# GRCA Public Statement on Importing Rescue Dogs



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

11/6/2019:

https://mailchi.mp/855ad584e19e/grc...CfO192ZEYXjsDZhNpMIWmOnXFLAOUyWw7GZkV5INGD2m8

Agree or disagree, I gotta give them a lot of credit for stepping up and taking a public stance on a hot topic. 

We will see if other breed clubs follow suit, show support, or if they stand alone.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I whole-heartedly agree. And I don't care whether people agree with me or not. 

But, I am in Canada and I am also very adamantly opposed to rescue dogs coming here from the US and Mexico.
I don't think rescues should be actively seeking to fill their spots, I am one of those who was in it with the hope that if we educated and promoted responsibility we could eventually close our doors. 
Importing dogs that pose a risk to the dogs from here is wrong. Importing dogs to support what has become a really lucrative business is in flagrant violation of what a rescue was supposed to be. The game was to empty the kennels, not fill them.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

AMEN!!!! I'm glad someone is taking the lead on this. A local shelter just imported Korean meat dogs. When they were questioned on their page regarding health testing and safety, they blocked the person.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I wonder what they mean by poor temperaments. If the temperaments of these imported Goldens were to present a danger, have no doubt that would be making headline news. 

I think stating that 1% of 1 million dogs imported lack appropriate health certifications, do they mean that 1% of dogs imported are from breeders? 99% rescues? Or that half of those dogs are coming from breeders and only .5% of those dogs have proper certifications? There is not enough information given here.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> AMEN!!!! I'm glad someone is taking the lead on this. A local shelter just imported Korean meat dogs. When they were questioned on their page regarding health testing and safety, they blocked the person.


Unsurprised. Our local shelter was one of the first to helicopter in groups of meat dogs. And then (surprise, no surprise) one of the first to discover that 2 out of two dozen tested positive for brucellosis, putting the entire shelter into quarantine mode and freezing adoptions across a multi-county area....


----------



## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

Good for the GRCA......Once again I must really lead a sheltered life.....I had no idea....is this going on with other breed rescues in some areas of the country where there's a higher demand for a specific breed.. than a "supply" of adoptable dogs on hand ?


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Many adoption facilities look for dogs that are highly adoptable it is how the business succeeds it is a business even if not profit. Test the dogs put them in quarantine. They import all kinds of animals from other countries and will continue to do so. I know people who feel people should not travel to other countries they bring diseases back.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

New strain of canine distemper virus arrives in North America | Cornell Chronicle

Importing rescue dogs is the new orange. Korean meat dogs, island street dogs, Egypt, etc.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Importing animals animals from other countries is nothing new though the only difference these animals need homes. Are people bringing this over ???? and if not why is quarantine not working and they need rethink why and about bringing any animal bring into the us from any country. Parrots and many birds can give many diseases to people that are often imported from countries to the US. People should not panic but strict regulations should be mandatory to keep people and animals safe and followed as with hundreds of thousands of animals brought into this country -not sure why this is not the case as it should be.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I just was reading and surprised by the lack of restrictions bringing dog into this country.


----------



## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I never understand when I see articles about importing rescue animals. I get it when it's done after a natural disaster but the general practice boggles my mind. Don't we have enough shelter/rescue dogs as it is. Aren't thousands of dogs euthanized in shelters every year because of lack of space. Mutt or breed specific matters not, I don't understand the practice as a whole. We euth animals already here only to import ones with a high potential of carrying diseases. It's one thing to transport animals from one U.S. shelter/rescue to another or into foster care. But importing them from another country doesn't make sense to me. Sadly we can't save them all and some shouldn't be saved.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm so over it. There was a time when I passionately believed in dog rescue. Now I hardly want anything to do with ANY organization. The whole thing just seems like a big scam--they are doing what they accuse breeders of doing---selling dogs. 

And that's before you get to the millions of bleeding hearts excusing their dogs' bad behavior because "he's a rescue" and "he must have been abused" 

I honestly kind of hate myself for this. Because I love dogs so much and there's nothing I wouldn't do for a dog in need and I mean it- I brought home an abandoned dying dog from my vet who peed and puked all over the place and required round the clock care for the tiny amount of time he had left but he didn't deserve to die in a concrete cage all alone...

I just feel like these people have lost their way, they are hiding and excusing aggressive behavior and adopting the dogs out anyway, they obviously aren't trying to protect the dogs from the diseases they are bringing in. So let's talk about the good you are really doing?? Why NOT quarantine the dogs if you really care about dogs?

I left that dying dog in a cage a day longer than he had to be waiting for some tests to come back on him before I brought him home to be sure I wasn't putting my own dogs in danger of anything because that defeats the purpose. I hated him having to go another night like he was but I had to be sure he wasn't bringing home anything with him. 

I don't know. I feel so conflicted.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I'm so over it. There was a time when I passionately believed in dog rescue. Now I hardly want anything to do with ANY organization. The whole thing just seems like a big scam--they are doing what they accuse breeders of doing---selling dogs.
> 
> And that's before you get to the millions of bleeding hearts excusing their dogs' bad behavior because "he's a rescue" and "he must have been abused"
> 
> ...


I use to be big into rescue too. Then with time the realization that just as there are checklists for reputable breeders there is also one for rescues. Too many rescues are actually businesses. They go down south, but puppy mill reject adults and the surplus puppies at an auction for dirt cheap then bring them all over the place with sad stories. They are LITERALLY assisting in keeping the puppy mills in business! Does a rescue ALWAYS have puppies? Red Flag. Do they show up at fairs at Petsmart or other places and let people sign pay and leave? Red Flag. They are selling poorly bred dogs. Make zero mistake.

A good rescue should:
-Interview the heck out of you and require a home visit and actually call your vet to get your history.
-Have dogs in foster before putting them up for adoption. They will often have dogs that featured but are not ready yet. A good rescue fully understands that an unknown dog needs a shutdown period in a home environment to see what they will be like in a home. 
-will have a vet check, be current on shots and be altered either prior to leaving or will take a deposit that will be returned for proof of a young pup being altered at a future date. 

I have found in general breed specific rescues are true rescues raher than a byb/puppy mill boutique.

Don't even get me started on importing rescues. It makes zero sense in the "clear our shelters" movement. Zero. It exposes it for what it is. A money making industry that advertises by pulling heart strings. 

I know genuine rescues that pull from city shelters. They are the real deal. And they foster for weeks before adopting out. I have gone to Paterson (If you have ever seen Lean On Me- that is Paterson) AC shelter for a rescue I work with sometimes to check dogs out a dog that someone alerted them to as being one of the saveable ones. Sometimes the hardened workers take them in and see something and put out a whisper. Sometimes you just know. It was the Tuesday before Thanksgiving 2 years ago and I will NEVER forget it. There are 40 dogs there. You know the rescue you are helping out can only pull 1 or 2 max. The floor was wet, they had concrete runs with an outside area for reliving themselves. No real beds just some donated blankets and towels. They were "clearing " the shelter before Thanksgiving. They had to. "Clearing" meaning a mass euth. A bunch of rescues were there seeing who they could pull. Most only had room for one or two. They were looking for young sweet adoptable looking dogs that had a shot at being ok and placed. You walk away knowing the 30 dogs not pulled before the Holiday were going into a gas dumpster. THAT is rescue.

The dog I pulled I didn't foster. Being an unknown and powerful dog we didnt feel a house with kids was his safe first stop. He was so so sweet. Trying to pull your hand through the gate to get closer to you. It broke my heart to leave him there after spending sometime with him even though I knew he was getting pulled. That is how desperate he was for human contact. I named him Trap because he had a head injury or birth defect that made his head shaped like a trapezoid. He found a great home and was named Marvin and he is happy and makes his family happy. I knew he was harmless in my heart, but protocol. 

So I also judge the shelters that have a dog in a kennel 2 weeks tops, poke around with a rubber arm while they are eating, and then consider them "evaluated". 

Guess I have a lot to say about the whole thing lol

I just placed a Foster for another rescue I help out sometimes a few weeks ago. A WGSL. 6 months old, I named her Gracie. She exploded Giardia all over my house lol She is great now and to see updates of her thriving in her new home makes me so happy. Life dealt her a bum situation and good people made sure she found her way to the right place. That is also rescue. Wish I could do it more, but I am good for one a year lol


----------



## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Cowboy- I am so with you and see the same thing in dog "rescue". I used to be totally pro adopting dogs - my first two dogs were shelter dogs (family dog and personal dog) and they were wonderful, incredible, amazing mutts that cost all of $75 to adopt. All we had to do was prove home ownership or landlord approval. Then when I went looking for a puppy I knew I wanted a specific breed type (shepherd) and tried rescue first- and encountered my first dose of toxic "rescue folks". I went and got my girl from a responsible breeder, and she has been a pure joy. My most recent addition is a pup I imported from an incredible breeder in the Netherlands- the right way (all health tests, vaccines age appropriate, etc.) 

I am so sick of the local rescue and SPCA who import dogs from Puerto Rico and Texas (mostly) - and most of these dogs are hunting hounds (which tend to be quite disappointing as average pets) or bully breeds/mixes. It's really high time we started supporting responsible breeders in the Northeast and shut our doors to imported dogs and the HW, distemper, and brucellosis they are now routinely bringing up here. As for importing meat dogs from China. Enough. We shouldn't be importing until we aren't killing any adoptable dogs in our own shelters. 

I love dogs in general, but I love my personal dogs the most, and am tired of people bringing in dogs with health and behavioral issues that threaten people's pets.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Twenty some odd years ago when I was routinely crossing the US/Canada border with my animals it was a source of fascination to me that they never cared about anything except the vet records for the critters. When I moved back from Montana I had 2 dogs, a cat, a gun, smokes, alcohol and a truck full of saddles, clothes, personal items and tools. I was driving a vehicle with Montana plates and had an Alberta license and a Nova Scotia birth certificate.
The ONLY thing they asked for or even looked at was the vaccination records for the animals!
I turned down a job in Australia because of the quarantine requirements for my then senior dog.
So I am infuriated by the fact that under the guise of rescue someone can bring in dozens of dogs without due process that put me, my pets and the population at risk. 
Heartworm is a great example of something that should not have happened. And just last year we had a confirmed Chagas case in a group of rescues. We now have a resistant strain of distemper in Ontario, from a rescue. 
Partly due to climate barriers, the Northern US and Canada were protected from natural spread of a good many lethal diseases, moving thousands of unvaccinated, unhealthy and unregulated animals around has created a situation where it was bound to happen eventually. 
If we are still euthanizing dogs in shelters here then why this huge need to import? Because it's a business, and a lucrative one. 
I want nothing to do with rescue as it stands right now. This was not why the rescue move started. And it makes me angry. Because I want to help.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Saco said:


> Cowboy- I am so with you and see the same thing in dog "rescue". I used to be totally pro adopting dogs - my first two dogs were shelter dogs (family dog and personal dog) and they were wonderful, incredible, amazing mutts that cost all of $75 to adopt. All we had to do was prove home ownership or landlord approval. Then when I went looking for a puppy I knew I wanted a specific breed type (shepherd) and tried rescue first- and encountered my first dose of toxic "rescue folks". I went and got my girl from a responsible breeder, and she has been a pure joy. My most recent addition is a pup I imported from an incredible breeder in the Netherlands- the right way (all health tests, vaccines age appropriate, etc.)
> 
> I am so sick of the local rescue and SPCA who import dogs from Puerto Rico and Texas (mostly) - and most of these dogs are hunting hounds (which tend to be quite disappointing as average pets) or bully breeds/mixes. It's really high time we started supporting responsible breeders in the Northeast and shut our doors to imported dogs and the HW, distemper, and brucellosis they are now routinely bringing up here. As for importing meat dogs from China. Enough. We shouldn't be importing until we aren't killing any adoptable dogs in our own shelters.
> 
> I love dogs in general, but I love my personal dogs the most, and am tired of people bringing in dogs with health and behavioral issues that threaten people's pets.


Me too, my first dog as an adult was a GSD I adopted out of a kill shelter. They were basically like here, take him. Then my girl, my first SD, from a breeder, and then a second rescue adoption but that was about my first taste of shadiness because there was definitely something shady done with that dog. Either he hadn't been vetted and she lied about his vet/vaccine history, or he had but she had changed his name and age on paper in order to hide him from someone...there was really no way for me to get to the bottom of it but it was weird. AND he had major issues that I feel certain she knew about and failed to disclose because she'd pegged me for someone who would ride it out with him, and she was right... (she being the representative of what actually was a 501c3 pit bull rescue that for some reason had a shepherd)

In my house now I have 3 dogs, all of whom came from reputable breeders, and all of whom behave how you would expect a stable dog of their breed to basically behave. And when family crises have sometimes arisen they have adapted and conducted themselves well. 

My last "rescue" ish....was that abandoned dog I brought home from the vet. First, I contacted the breed rescue I've been volunteering for for years (GSD). I thought for sure they would help him but they wanted no part of it, not even when I offered to drive him anywhere in New England. He was intact but fine with people and other dogs and too far gone to neuter. I suppose they were not willing to allocate resources to a dog that was not adoptable because he was terminal. But that upset me. I felt they should have tried to help him find a soft place for his last days. But they would not so feeling more disillusioned, I brought him home myself and declined a volunteer assignment they'd just asked of me because I was busy taking care of this dog...

I totally used to believe that all breeders were the problem and now I see how false that is. I do think the breed rescue I've been volunteering for is legit, but I've scanned their adoptable list dozens of times and almost every single dog on there is fearful. I don't want to live with a fearful dog. I just don't. When you look at them, I'd say 90% of them are fearful, obviously backyard bred dogs. THOSE are the "breeders" that are causing a problem.

I think I'll leave it at this. My vet knows if there is a dog in need I'll try to help if I can, especially if it's a shepherd. That's why they called to tell me about that one. If they ever call me again about a dog, I'll sure help if I can. Other than that, I think I'm just gonna stay out of it because who do you trust? 

And sometimes, I think good rescues are a little holier than thou and silly about stuff.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I know someone online who adopted an imported rescue. The dog had horrible health problems and it took the rescue group thousands of dollars just make it healthy enough to live. It turned out the dog lived only two years after that and was on constant medications for the entire time.


----------



## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

One thing I keep getting hung up on his how few safety checks there are in place to move these live animals internationally.

I had a pair of boots removed from my luggage and destroyed (incinerated!) a few years ago because there was too much dirt in the tread of the soles, they were considered an agricultural biohazard. The boots weren't filthy or anything, but I had failed to deliberately clean the sole crevices with a toothbrush. Those little crumbles of dirt had the potential to ruin crops, so I could either pay a cleaning fee and have them shipped home, or pay nothing and have them burned up. No matter what I offered to pay, or do, the boots wouldn't be handed back to me for my use in that country. I also had some brand new, still wrapped granola bars removed from my luggage and incinerated because they contained honey, and the country I was entering was worried about colony collapse.

How is this the same world that allows animals uninterrupted passage, carrying parasites and/or diseases _that we have the ability to test for_?


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OR imports mutts from all over the country; sick and, problem behavior, under socialized and they sell easily for $400 or more.


----------



## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

I agree I didn't know the number of import dogs, was surprising to me! What WIBackpacker was saying, doesn't states like California still have check points for plants or fruit coming into the state? I think I'd read Texas has restrictions but I've drove to Houston several times and never saw a check point, so you'd think it'd be even more so for live animals crossing borders. I feel sorry for the dogs, but also agree that there are so many here that never get a home.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Follow the money.


----------



## cvamoca (Jul 12, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I'm so over it. There was a time when I passionately believed in dog rescue. Now I hardly want anything to do with ANY organization. The whole thing just seems like a big scam--they are doing what they accuse breeders of doing---selling dogs.
> 
> And that's before you get to the millions of bleeding hearts excusing their dogs' bad behavior because "he's a rescue" and "he must have been abused"
> 
> ...



I understand. I used to be involved in horse rescue, or more correctly in the seediest part of it. The sleazy "rescues" who hid, hoarded, starved and killed horses out of "love". There was a huge active board before people did Gofundmes--who would do anything to "save" any horse, anywhere, no matter what the cost. And then hoarded them, couldn't deal with them, couldn't deal with the behaviour or medical needs of the horses, who stole money from adoptions and adopters--the amount of "faux" rescues is absolutely ASTOUNDING. It would make you all sick.

The same is now happening in the dog world. "Korean meat dog" is much more appealing on Facebook or wherever, than taking "Joe Blow's mixed breed dogs from up the road". Adopt don't shop is the new watchword. Don't get me wrong, I watched and bawled through 12 Nights (available on youtube) for the sad life and death of many dogs in a shelter in Thailand, 3 times I've watched it and bawled like a baby, and others. But WE didn't make that problem-- it's a problem throughout the world where *all* life is cheap. Dogs, horses, cows, birds all live squalid sad lives alongside people. 
But you know what? Why is it our responsibility in our part of the world, to tell others in other parts of the world how they can live, including the rather gross practise of eating dogs, cats, horses, name insert-here? 
There are homeless, abused dogs right here in Canada, right there in the US every single day. Deal with that first. 

Not all get to live, but fewer in Canada and the US will if they never get a chance, because adopting from a shelter is so last year! Argh. 

Disease is a HUGE thing. There's a list of reportable illnesses across a spectrum of animals, which when found, the animals must be destroyed, period. My biggest fear is Infectious Laryngeotracheitis, because it would mean my flock, my pet chickens and geese and house birds, would all be destroyed. TERRIFIES me. Same with Equine Infectious Anemia for horses.
Off hand I don't believe there are any reportable dog diseases at the moment, though many disease can jump species. Endangering not just their species, but people, and also dogs. 

Here's what we are federally expected to report in Canada in livestock, including horses and chickens. https://www.inspection.gc.ca/animal...es/reportable/eng/1303768471142/1303768544412

The dogs criss-crossing the border, state and provincial lines, countries--there will be consequences in more and different strains of illness, as this continues. 

And it does push out ethical breeders who have worked for many decades to improve and protect their chosen breed.


----------



## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

First I've heard of this and I agree with the GRCA. I just presumed rescue dogs were locals, enough already with the imported rescues, and I really don't care what the reason.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

wolfy dog said:


> OR imports mutts from all over the country; sick and, problem behavior, under socialized and they sell easily for $400 or more.


I do find myself wondering what's so lucrative about it $400 is not that much money and they already paid to speuter, transport, feed and house the dogs for however long it takes to get them adopted and presumably did some vetting besides speuter?

Maybe they are getting donations besides adoption fees, or getting some of those services or things for free/cheap because they are "rescues"?


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I do find myself wondering what's so lucrative about it $400 is not that much money and they already paid to speuter, transport, feed and house the dogs for however long it takes to get them adopted and presumably did some vetting besides speuter?
> 
> Maybe they are getting donations besides adoption fees, or getting some of those services or things for free/cheap because they are "rescues"?


There are notifications that I get regularly from "rescues" trying for free transport. If anyone is flying from ? to ? we need you to take this dog/puppy as baggage. If anyone is driving back from Mexico need transport for rescues. I know of truck drivers who get hit up, bus drivers, etc. 
I also see rescues fund raising on GoFundMe or local to them hitting up vets, stores, etc for free service or supplies. 
Our rescue vet in Calgary unwittingly helped a puppy mill until he got wise. He was also hit up for the meat dog thing but refused and reported when they asked him to fudge health certs.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cvamoca said:


> Off hand I don't believe there are any reportable dog diseases at the moment, though many disease can jump species. Endangering not just their species, but people, and also dogs.


Brucellosis

http://www.akcchf.org/canine-health...ase/AKC-CHF-Canine-Brucellosis-Fact-Sheet.pdf

https://www.cbs58.com/news/two-dogs-rescued-from-south-korea-test-positive-for-canine-brucellosis

https://www.vin.com/vetzinsight/default.aspx?pid=756&catId=5860&Id=9127956


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

cvamoca said:


> The dogs criss-crossing the border, state and provincial lines, countries--there will be consequences in more and different strains of illness, as this continues.
> And it does push out ethical breeders who have worked for many decades to improve and protect their chosen breed.


I know several trainers who advice people to get a well bred purebred. I don't know of any trainer who "rescues" anymore, which is different from 20 years ago.; most have now purebred workers. The demand for "rescues" needs to go down through educating the public. Maybe inviting the local newspapers for an article but it may risk your reputation among the animal lovers.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I do find myself wondering what's so lucrative about it $400 is not that much money and they already paid to speuter, transport, feed and house the dogs for however long it takes to get them adopted and presumably did some vetting besides speuter?
> 
> Maybe they are getting donations besides adoption fees, or getting some of those services or things for free/cheap because they are "rescues"?


A local shelter flips the dogs as soon as they arrive from out of state, no matter if they have ear mites, recent spay sutures etc. I don't know where they go so fast. That shelter has the feel-good-label of no-kill and doesn't lack money. They get many donations, are in people's wills etc. They put up a huge fancy building that is every shelter's dream but their policies suck. I have seen a dog on their website that I saw in a training visit because he had bitten all their kids (and was returned along with my training report/evaluation) without any mentioning of "needs an experienced home without children. Grrr....


----------



## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

We've been to multiple shelters looking for a dog to replace Buck recently. It's been an experience. I know to avoid rescue groups as most of them are hoarders who have no interest in parting with an animal. The county allows 2 dogs per household, but as a 'rescue' they can have many. I avoid Craig's list because I'm afraid they are stolen and I would be breaking someone else's heart. All that leaves is Humane Societies and county shelters. Some are great and really try especially the county ones. But one in particular has left me dumbfounded. We've gotten two dogs from them in about 10 years. No problems with either. Now you go down there and they want you to have a 6 foot fence (sometime they even specific what kind of fencing) or you cannot even see the dog. It does no good to tell them it's never been a problem, never had a dog run off, we're on acreage, 1000 feet off the road before the property even starts and surrounded by dense woods. They claim some gobbledygook about the animal behaviorist said....
So they are overstocked with some very sad animals, the prices are high ($600 for a puppy you do not even know whether will grow to 20 lbs or 120lbs.) and the smell and filth just tears you up. IF the dog has a blanket it's being used to soak up urine. empty water dishes and no kibble. Some are doubled up in cages and some are being kept out of sight, just pictures in a book. Nice facilities, just a filthy, smelly overcrowded mess. What do you say when it IS the Humane Society that is the problem?

I do not worry because another humane society brings dogs in from all over the US. They find homes here instead of being euthanized. But I can understand the statement, providing pets has just become such a business. I think as people learn there is a problem they will change the process, I saw that with Hannah, but the statement is necessary so people can find out what is going on. For those who missed it - https://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/2016/04/hannah_pet_society_stops_placing.html



stepping down...




I know our next dog is out there, but it's been a difficult search this time.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

wolfy dog said:


> A local shelter flips the dogs as soon as they arrive from out of state, no matter if they have ear mites, recent spay sutures etc. I don't know where they go so fast. That shelter has the feel-good-label of no-kill and doesn't lack money. They get many donations, are in people's wills etc. They put up a huge fancy building that is every shelter's dream but their policies suck. I have seen a dog on their website that I saw in a training visit because he had bitten all their kids (and was returned along with my training report/evaluation) without any mentioning of "needs an experienced home without children. Grrr....


Without trying to pay attention to stuff like this, I know of a half dozen dogs with pretty dangeous problems up for adoption or that were adopted out. There are 2 shelters in my vicinity and one of them seems to have literally nothing but dangerous dogs. 

Even a GSD who had languished in a shelter for way too long and a friend of mine was trying to help and asking me if I could help so I contacted them about him and found out he had a loooong bite history, had been adopted once and returned the next day for biting the adopters but it was their fault because they handled him wrong. 

It seems to me like everything is getting excused away right now with rescue people. 

I know some people whose dog boards with me and they just adopted a small dog out of "rescue". They couldn't get near it for days, if they tried it would growl and snap and show teeth. It already went for one of their guests and hasn't even been awesome with their other dog. This is the last thing these poor people need! On what planet is this dog adoptable when you can't even get near it? I'm so angry for them because they are the nicest people in the world and they're already talking like they would NEVER give him---but I really fear they are now sentenced to a life of trying not to let this thing bite their family and guests and that's just ridiculous

to me it seems predatory to mark a sweet retired couple like this and send them home with a dog so nasty they can't get within five feet of it for days. Their other dog is a big dog and really the husband's dog. The wife really deserves a sweet lap dog, not a little gremlin who wants to bite everybody.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Thecowboysgirl - there was a documented bite history? Eventually these shelters and rescues will get sued.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Buckelke said:


> know to avoid rescue groups as most of them are hoarders who have no interest in parting with an animal.


That is just simply not true. Of all the rescues I have worked with, only one turned into a hoarder and the board stepped in to take over. Many good rescues out there. I do think some of their requirements are to strict but I also get how invested they are in their animals. I've done home visits for Echo when there is an adopter in my area, one home was fenced, one was not. Both incredible homes.

A few years ago, I was looking to home a Husky thru a rescue. I was appalled at the lack of oversight from the rescue on vetting this person. Basically allowed someone the person knew to do the home visit (not biased at all, right?) and the fencing was not secure at all (spaces under the welded wire fence, sagging fence posts). Then the person couldn't even make the trip (basically a day trip) to me to meet the dog. Wanted me to rearrange my life with 24 hours notice so her sister could pick the dog up, when I hadn't even had the time to read the home visit report yet, and when I refused, the girl had a fit and the rescue wouldn't work with me anymore. So yes, I get why rescues are strict. They don't want their dogs to end up as roadkill.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Importing sick dogs is a good example of the contradictions within the rescue movement. I was involved with fostering and rescuing until I realized it went against everything I believe about responsible breeding and dog ownership. Rescue has become more about what is good the for the dog rather than what is good for the owners. The dogs I met were usually relatively good dogs, but they all came from poor breeding stock or practices. Even here, when someone has an aggressive or untrained dog they can’t handle, we suggest they find another home. Sometimes I’m in favor of that. That philosophy helps dogs but does it help adopters? Why should people take on difficult dogs just because they can? I’ve had dogs I had to manage. I’ve also had a dog with health problems. There are times in the midst of it when I’ve asked myself why I don’t have easy dogs like other people do. The same goes for sick dogs. Is it worth the risk to a healthy dog population to flood our communities with diseases?


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Buckelke said:


> We've been to multiple shelters looking for a dog to replace Buck recently. It's been an experience. I know to avoid rescue groups as most of them are hoarders who have no interest in parting with an animal. The county allows 2 dogs per household, but as a 'rescue' they can have many. I avoid Craig's list because I'm afraid they are stolen and I would be breaking someone else's heart. All that leaves is Humane Societies and county shelters. Some are great and really try especially the county ones. But one in particular has left me dumbfounded. We've gotten two dogs from them in about 10 years. No problems with either. Now you go down there and they want you to have a 6 foot fence (sometime they even specific what kind of fencing) or you cannot even see the dog. It does no good to tell them it's never been a problem, never had a dog run off, we're on acreage, 1000 feet off the road before the property even starts and surrounded by dense woods. They claim some gobbledygook about the animal behaviorist said....
> So they are overstocked with some very sad animals, the prices are high ($600 for a puppy you do not even know whether will grow to 20 lbs or 120lbs.) and the smell and filth just tears you up. IF the dog has a blanket it's being used to soak up urine. empty water dishes and no kibble. Some are doubled up in cages and some are being kept out of sight, just pictures in a book. Nice facilities, just a filthy, smelly overcrowded mess. What do you say when it IS the Humane Society that is the problem?
> 
> I do not worry because another humane society brings dogs in from all over the US. They find homes here instead of being euthanized. But I can understand the statement, providing pets has just become such a business. I think as people learn there is a problem they will change the process, I saw that with Hannah, but the statement is necessary so people can find out what is going on. For those who missed it - https://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/2016/04/hannah_pet_society_stops_placing.html
> ...


That isn’t my experience at all. Good rescues, especially the large ones with good reputations, need to turn over dogs so they can take in new ones. If you don’t mind paying for it, you might want to contact some good breeders about turn backs. They may have a dog that has been trained and socialized whose owner had to return them. Or they could have dogs that need training but are generally good, stable dogs. Breeders can’t used returned dogs. They aren’t going to breed or show them, so they need to rehome. Sometimes they charge to recoup their costs, sometimes the owners keep the dog until they find a home and just want to give them to a good, vetted home. It’s much less of a random roll of the dice to get a dog with a known pedigree, that has been handled well as a puppy.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> @Thecowboysgirl - there was a documented bite history? Eventually these shelters and rescues will get sued.


I mean I can say documented in as much as that I have an email written to me by their adoption coordinator. 
They were willing to disclose it to me... I don't know if any of the bites ever were reported to animal control.

Basically my inquiry was along the lines of-- have you contacted XXXX german shepherd rescue, if not maybe I can contact them for you and since I am local perhaps I could offer him a ride to get into foster with them because most or maybe all of their foster homes are not in our state. I thought maybe they didn't know about him or hadn't pulled him because he's so far away from their base of operations...

The person replied by email that aforementioned rescue org. won't get involved because he had multiple bites before he was surrendered to the shelter. Stated in email to me that the dog was adopted out once and then returned for biting the adopters on night one. To be fair...I guess...I don't know and did not ask the severity of any of the bites.

My friend who originally contacted me about that dog owns another GSD who was adopted out of what I already suspected was a shady rescue. Her dog has a couple of bites since she adopted him. None serious and she is working with him and he is basically doing ok...but I had long suspected that the rescue probably knew he had bitten prior to her adopting him. And guess what rescue eventually pulled Biter #1 mentioned above...the one who adopted out Biter #2 to my friend. And so Biter #1 went into rescue and went up for adoption I suppose.

After I heard the history on the dog I basically said "oh." and did not ask or contribute anything more about any of it from anybody because I no longer wanted to be involved. My friend told me the other rescue pulled him and I also said. "oh." 

Biter #1 did pretty much look like a working line dog....I partly want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Then I think. nah. If the dog bites his adopters and gets returned in less than 24 hrs....and that's nowhere near his first bite...there's a problem. Maybe we need to really consider this dog is not adoptable

What's REALLY more humane, to keep schlepping this dog from place to place, let him live in an animal shelter for months and months, keep subjecting him to situations that make him feel like he has to bite, over and over and this has gone on most of the dog's life now? Or just put him down.

But...like i said... I feel super conflicted about all of it and kind of hate myself for even thinking this way.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

LuvShepherds said:


> Importing sick dogs is a good example of the contradictions within the rescue movement. I was involved with fostering and rescuing until I realized it went against everything I believe about responsible breeding and dog ownership. Rescue has become more about what is good the for the dog rather than what is good for the owners. The dogs I met were usually relatively good dogs, but they all came from poor breeding stock or practices. Even here, when someone has an aggressive or untrained dog they can’t handle, we suggest they find another home. Sometimes I’m in favor of that. That philosophy helps dogs but does it help adopters? Why should people take on difficult dogs just because they can? I’ve had dogs I had to manage. I’ve also had a dog with health problems. There are times in the midst of it when I’ve asked myself why I don’t have easy dogs like other people do. The same goes for sick dogs. Is it worth the risk to a healthy dog population to flood our communities with diseases?


Why should people take on difficult dogs....that's a lot of it for me. People just want a nice pet. I mean, I adopted a GSD out of a kill shelter twenty years ago or so and he was a pretty great dog. I was a novice and he was WAY too much dog for me and I had no idea what I was getting myself into and yet it turned out okay and he became a better and better dog all the time, because he was basically a pretty good dog to begin with. So that happens.

But it almost feels as though we've gone to such an extreme now that every dog must be adopted out, no behavior is too extreme, either because they want to make money off it or because they believe it is our responsibility as humans to house and somehow live with the worst of canine behaviors and temperaments rather than put them down. And I'm just not sure I agree with that!

My 3rd dog at this time is my young lab. If you set aside for a moment that I needed a service dog, just say I wanted a pet. He's my third dog and my oldest one is having tons of health problems. So I just wanted an easy dog who could basically just walk right into our lives and live in it and be easy and be good. And he has done that in spades. He is super peaceable with other dogs, he is easy going, super biddable, easy to handle, easy to train. He's been terrific at not causing a single bit of conflict with any other dog in my household. And actively avoiding conflict if another dog tried to start any with him. He's pretty much exactly the dog I needed right now. He's pretty much exactly what I said I wanted when I contacted someone I know who's a representative for a big labrador retriever club and I asked her what breeder would you suggest where I could find a dog like this. He's just a humble little fellow who shows up and does the job asked of him and asks very little of me in return except for the occasional trip through the drivethru for ice-cream

If I want or need a dog like that, I should be able to go and get one. And so should everybody else.


----------



## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

This may sound extreme. I would rather rescues adopt out only the healthy, solid temperament dogs to people. Not project dogs. Most people don't want a project dog. They just want a dog that'll play with the kids and go places with them. Untrained is one thing. Bad temperament is another and cannot be "fixed" with training, only managed.

I'm not sure what should happen to the unhealthy or poorly bred dogs. The ones that are so psychologically compromised that every waking moment is a stress-filled nightmare for them (wherein they respond aggressively or fearfully or both) might be better off being put down. I feel bad for the dog, but is it really living at all if you're stressed out by simply existing?


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

@Thecowboysgirl and @Kyrielle, I agree with both of you. I’ve decided my next dog is going to be an easy one. It may be a GSD but it might be a different breed. It depends what I find when I start looking. I want a simple, uncomplicated relationship with a pet. I adore the dogs I have now and we are extremely bonded. I’ve also put a huge amount of handling onto each of them. I loved doing it and there are times in our lives when we embrace challenges. There are also times when we just want to relax and kick back with a fun, easy pet. Right now we are all chilling. They are lying quietly and sleeping, I’m sitting here soaking up the calm. I’m also fortunate that I have enough experience, I’ve been able to own two drivey dogs and been able to get them to where I need them to be. Not everyone can do that. I don’t think I’m a special trainer, but I’ve made it a high priority to learn how to be the best owner I can for my dogs.

I got a call a few months ago about an acquaintance who adopted a long haired, gorgeous GSD from a shelter. She had always owned Goldens but saw the dog, felt it was a good match and took her home. When she contacted me on the advice of a mutual friend, she was in a wheelchair from a badly broken leg and the dog was uncontrollable. After hearing the whole story, I told her the dog needed a younger stronger handler with GSD experience. The dog actually sounded pretty nice, but it was showing some leash reactivity and it scared her. She needs to have a dog she isn’t scared of. I thought about taking her but it violates my new rule about not taking on someone else’s problems. I didn’t hear back but eventually talked to the mutual friend. The woman gave up the dog to someone she found through an ad. They have owned several German Shepherds. She insisted they allow her to see the dog once a month to check on her progress. She was very amazed at how good the dog is with the new owners when she met up with them. She and the dog are also very lucky to have found a home for it. Her problem was buying into the rescue/shelter philosophy.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Kyrielle said:


> This may sound extreme. I would rather rescues adopt out only the healthy, solid temperament dogs to people. Not project dogs. Most people don't want a project dog. They just want a dog that'll play with the kids and go places with them. Untrained is one thing. Bad temperament is another and cannot be "fixed" with training, only managed.
> 
> I'm not sure what should happen to the unhealthy or poorly bred dogs. The ones that are so psychologically compromised that every waking moment is a stress-filled nightmare for them (wherein they respond aggressively or fearfully or both) might be better off being put down. I feel bad for the dog, but is it really living at all if you're stressed out by simply existing?


I don't think they need to be perfect but there should be SOME standards...


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

In the past we set up a temperament program in another shelter than the one I mentioned earlier. We were very strict. If a dog did not allow us to touch it or point at it's food, the test was stopped and the dog returned to the kennel. That was very, very tough to do because I knew it meant the end of another life. But the result was that we felt confident about adopting dogs out to the public that were as safe as possible. Unfortunately under different management, this has gone south. At least they don't import out of state dogs but keeping it local.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I decided several years ago that I was done. In my entire life I have never had a dog that I chose. I have never had a dog that did not come with issues. Sabs was a dream that died full of cancer, with DM. She had crappy hips, and the fact that they never affected her was a testament to her strength. And acupuncture. She was not supposed to be mine, in fact I did not want her. Bud came with a laundry list of issues, so did Lex. And Miss Punk here, well she's special.
I always end up with the dogs left over. I call them recycled. Some I find, some were rescues that never got adopted, some came to visit and stayed. 
And I loved them all, gave them the best life I could. I have a rule. Once they are mine they stay. For better or worse, no matter the cost, whatever the issues they stay. Storm and Trix broke that rule, because they never belonged with me to start with.
But before I am dead I want one dog that is truly mine. One that arrives free of baggage and healthy. One that I made a decision to get. One normal, stable dog.
It will probably hate me.


----------

