# Deposit back - Breed Fraud



## Riku (Dec 8, 2015)

I was originally looking for a wolfly looking DOG and came across the ANCD breed (Alaskan Noble Companion Dog). I was duped into believing this new breed created by a 'geneticist' was a wolfy looking GSD type. All of the posts and videos seemed great. 

I have adopted shelter dogs, but it has been years and I wanted something to fit my tastes. The breeder NEVER told me these were low to mid content WOLF DOGS and my stupid self wanting to believe that this breed was what she said put a $800 (50%) deposit down.

AFTER I put my deposit down my excitement to get a puppy led to reaching out to owners, they have told me these are wolf dogs, and have extreme fear and aggression issues, not to mention thievery and destruction. Some issues not being displayed until later in life randomly. There are 30 plus owners telling me this, so I know it can't all be owner/training related.

It would be ILLEGAL to own one of these dogs, and I never wanted a dog with wolf in it.

We have lots of correspondence with email about what my plans and intentions were for the dog. However, I do not have a written contract about my deposit. Nowhere on her paperwork has she mentioned the deposit being nonrefundable.

People have had to send these hybrids to wolf sanctuaries because of the reasons I have listed.
Do I have any leverage on getting my deposit back, possibly by sending a certified letter? It is very possible her whole operation is illegal and I have considered turning her into animal control, however that does not help me with getting my money back.


I am now looking to get a GSD like i originally wanted, but I don't want this woman to have all this money from potential buyers like me realizing we'd be getting an illegal dog. There are multiple people on her waiting list that are in the same position as me.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

What state are you in? Wolf & wolfdog statutes vary drastically, from state to state. They're legal in my area and I know multiple people who keep them. Someone locally got busted / publicly shamed for selling them as "Native American Indian Dogs" a few years ago, but in the end the buyers had zero grounds for reimbursement since there wasn't a written contract. The buyers that kept their "dogs" had to install perimeter fencing that meets DNR specifications, register and permit their wolfdog, or surrender their animal. It was quite the mess, people here still talk about it.

You may find better info and feedback via an online wolfdog community, rather than a GSD specific forum. I do think there are some active members here that have (or had in the past) wolf dogs, perhaps they can give you some suggestions.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Deposits are generally regarded as non-refundable, otherwise what's the point? 

However, if the contract were illegal, such as for the purchase of an illegal animal, you may be able to recover your money since technically the contract for purchase would not have existed. If the contract does not legally exist then the seller is not entitled to the deposit.


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## Riku (Dec 8, 2015)

I currently live in Oklahoma, the breeder lives in Iowa. Even some counties can vary on the legality of hybrids I am learning. My job will require me to move on a regular basis, 1-2 years

She assured me that the breed as a whole is a good indoor dog that can be a family companion. Not to mention that there was no wolf in the dogs. I was stupid to believe that.

Thank you for the direction to a wolfdog site, I will try there as well. 

To be honest I am seeking help from several areas, so that the ANCD (Alaskan Noble Companion Dog) name shows up on searches when people are looking at this breed to show that they DO in fact have wolf in them...and the breeding stock has produced mainly fearful and aggressive dogs.

Had I known I would have never put a deposit down.

Thank you for your advice.


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## Liulfr (Nov 10, 2015)

Do you have it in writing that she told you there was no wolf in the breed? That could be grounds for voiding the contract.


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## Riku (Dec 8, 2015)

Angelas,

That is my thought exactly if it is illegal I feel I have SOME grounds to get my deposit back. The breeder is assuring potential buyers there is no wolf in them and that they are a mix of GSD and other breeds.

Would a certified letter help with contacting the breeder? Several people on her waiting list have tried to contact her through Email and facebook and she has ignored them. I have yet to approach her on the situation because I do not want to be pushed aside and ignored about being sold an animal I'd be putting at risk because of its wolf dog content.

I understand and respect a deposit to a breeder to show I am serious and wanting to secure a place. It was my lack of education to have a written contract on the deposit.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ask for the deposit back and if she does not respond, file in small claims court. You do not need a lawyer. Think Judge Wapner/Judge Judy. For $25 or so, you have an opportunity to tell your side of the story, and present your e-mails, etc. And she will have an opportunity to explain herself. The judge rules one way or the other. 

Then, once you have a judgement, if she does not produce the money, I think you might have to go after her through collections. Not sure. Never did it. 

This is not worth getting a lawyer because a lawyer would cost that much easy, unless you have legal insurance, then it might be an opportunity to check it out and get an opinion. The thing about that, that I would worry about, is that legal insurance people might give you advice to do nothing because if you pursue it, then they would have to get off their duffs.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Riku, I did a quick google search and unfortunately it looks like the ANCD lands in the same questionable realm as the "Native American Indian Dog" I mentioned above : The Wolf Is At The Door, Inc. - What's in a name? The good thing is you made this discovery before you brought a small puppy home, became attached, and then had permit/ownership problems (as the people in my state did).

I think Selzer's suggestion is what I would do. First, request that your deposit be refunded (politely but firmly). Spending a filing fee is very sensible. Attorney's fees will probably greatly exceed your initial deposit, particularly since this crosses state lines. I'd print & save all copies of correspondence, especially whatever record of receipt you have (Paypal transaction history, copy of check, etc).

Good luck.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Also, if the puppy was actually misrepresented and you can prove it, you may stand a chance of contesting the payment if you used PayPal.... you will see "Resolution Center" links or something like that, when you log into your account. Just another possibility.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I own an ANCD and the exact same thing happened to me about finding out about their content too late. The problem is that to know the truth you either have to talk to ancd owners which are hard to track down because most have their dogs in illegal states and don't want to admit they are wolf dogs and have their dogs taken away. The other way is asking the wolf dog community except when everyone parrots the breeder and claims they have no wolf, you would never think to approach that community.


Good luck getting your deposit back. I don't know anyone who was successful getting it back but I don't know anyone who tried.


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## Annie_GSD (Dec 8, 2015)

Can you contact the Sheriff, animal control in her area, inform them as well as the District Attorneys office. Some counties take this very seriously.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Wow, it always amazes me how people can market anything with Alaska in the name. As a publisher told me "Alaska sells". I kind of think the deposit is gone. You should have done due dilligence prior to sending the breeder money. Let it go, and find a good GSD breeder and move forward. It's not worth pursuing, just be glad you got out of it prior to an actual puppy being involved.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Ok, so you do not have a written signed contract. But you do have a verbal contract with documentation of your correspondences. Since there is not written contract, I would think that you could file with your local courthouse. You would have to pay a filing fee, and not sure what the limits on monetary amounts are for small claims, but I would include the fee and any related expenses up to now and until settled in the amount of the claim, if you can do that. Most written contracts require any legal action to be done in the breeders local town/county. I would probably also seek a local attorney to write you a letter requesting a refund of your deposit, stating the reasons why, and that the suit will be dropped upon receipt of full refund, plus expenses up to a specific date. Then be sure to mail it registered (certified/return receipt), so they have to sign for it, and you get the return receipt as proof. Good luck


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## BauerWhite (Mar 18, 2015)

I have a White German Shepherd and I find that they can look pretty wolf like.










(not my dog btw)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Muskeg said:


> Wow, it always amazes me how people can market anything with Alaska in the name. As a publisher told me "Alaska sells". I kind of think the deposit is gone. You should have done due dilligence prior to sending the breeder money. Let it go, and find a good GSD breeder and move forward. It's not worth pursuing, just be glad you got out of it prior to an actual puppy being involved.


agree, you weren't 'duped'....you just didn't do your homework. I know of someone nearby that breeds NAID's and they are nervebags with health issues. This breeder gets quite a chunk of change for them. Sad because the dogs are the ones that suffer....and the owners weren't duped because, they didn't do their diligent research before buying.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Consider it a $800 life lesson. I doubt you will see any of your money back. If you had gotten he dog, you might have had way more (vet ) expenses and heartache with breeders like these. Don't go for looks alone. But you will probably know that by now.


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## gsdlover76 (Jan 31, 2016)

Deposits for puppies are not usually refundable - but without a contract - they also have no right to keep the deposit (The contract usually states whether the deposit is refundable or not)


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