# Looking for working line breeders



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

Hello all,

My search for a pup to add to our family continues. I've been in contact with Marsha (Kennel von der Traumwolfen) in Nebraska regarding the May litter out of Chita. Sadly, she contacted me today to let me know that the ultrasound on Chita revealed that her breeding didn't take.  She also let us know that she expects Chita to come back into heat around August, or thereabouts.

Because of family planning on our part, we would like to bring a pup home between May and July if at all possible. We REALLY love the look of Chita, and we don't want to burn our bridges with Marsha, but we are considering the idea of looking to see if there are any other breeders that might have what we are looking for with litters that will be available during the time period we are wanting. If we don't find something we like _at least_ as much as we like Chita, we'll try to make a Dec/Jan pup work for us, but we're just trying to consider all our options.

I sent out a slew of emails today to various regional clubs, as well as to the contact people for many regional United Schutzhund Clubs, asking for referrals to working line breeders, so I'm hoping to hear back from a few of them with some leads, but I thought I would post here again with a slightly more tweaked "list" of what we're looking for (since we're learning more and more all the time about what we really want in a pup).

Here is what we're looking for in a pup:
-Male
-8-10 weeks
-Parents with SchH1 or higher
-OFA certified
-Socialization started
-Working lines strongly preferred
-_Possibility_ of Schutzhund training in the future
-Standard (or "smooth") coat. Plush _maybe_. NO long coat.
-Color preferences (in order): Bi-color preferred, saddle-back and black sable about the same preference after
-Ready to go home near the middle of May to the middle of July
-$1,200 - $1,500 (including shipping, if necessary)

I've learned a little bit more about things since I've joined these forums (thanks again to everyone who has given me advice!), and have realized that it may not be possible to find what we want within driving distance of where we live (Cheyenne, Wyoming), so if there are reputable breeders in other parts of the country that would still fit what we need (price range including shipping, etc.), we are definitely open to that as well. 

Thanks everyone!

Kaci


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

It may help if you listed what you want in terms of drive, thresholds, energy, temperament, etc.. 

To me it sounds like you want a nice working lined dog who is mainly a companion but you have the option to try new things with. So a companion with some nice balance drives, maybe a medium threshold and medium energy?


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> It may help if you listed what you want in terms of drive, thresholds, energy, temperament, etc..
> 
> To me it sounds like you want a nice working lined dog who is mainly a companion but you have the option to try new things with. So a companion with some nice balance drives, maybe a medium threshold and medium energy?


You nailed it exactly.  Since I'm still new to the exact nuances of what type of dog I want, I know I haven't listed everything I'm looking for--which is why my list has been "updated" several times since I first posted it in these forums. haha

But yes, what it sounds like to you is pretty much exactly what I'm wanting. I've done lots of obedience with my dogs in the past, but other than local and state competitions at an amateur level, I've never done much with it. My last GSD, I had planned to try agility with, but my mother got very sick at the time with cancer at a very young age (46), and when she died 6 months later, I was 21 and suddenly had primary custody of my very devastated, very angry-at-the-world 16 year old brother, so life kind of got in the way of my plans with my dog.

I've found that I'm very intrigued and interested in Schutzhund (since I saw the "real thing" so to speak with my father, who was a K9 cop), so I'd like to possibly get into that, but I do know I don't want a super high-drive dog that will go batsh** crazy if life gets in the way and I end up not being able to do it, although I do feel confident that I won't have trouble keeping a dog occupied mentally and physically to compensate in general.

So, basically, exactly what you said is right on--working line (I'm not a fan of the angulated show lines), primarily a companion dog, but that has enough drive and energy to do well in Schutzhund if I'm able to get into it like I want to.

Thanks very much for helping me to clarify.  I need all the help I can get.

Kaci


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

what about Chris at wildhaus? she is a member here on the forum, beautiful dogs, versatile, there are quite a few members that have her dogs as well


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Chris's dogs sounds like a good choice. I would definitely contact her.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Looking at your list of requirements and expectations, I thought that a Wildhaus pup would be exaclty what you want too (not that I'm biased, LOL). There is litter due May, but there won't be any black-and-tans, and depending on the size of the litter, there may not be any more pups available:
(German Shepherd Puppies For Sale in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Looking at your list of requirements and expectations, I thought that a Wildhaus pup would be exaclty what you want too (not that I'm biased, LOL). There is litter due May, but there won't be any black-and-tans, and depending on the size of the litter, there may not be any more pups available:
> (German Shepherd Puppies For Sale in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )


Awww, bummer! They *do* sound very much like what I'm looking for--I just showed up too late! When I read the following:



> This is not a breeding geared toward sport and we do not expect the extremely high drive and more prey oriented temperament often sought for high level competition in schutzhund, agility and other venues, but rather dogs with strong and balanced drives, exceptional character and nerve, moderate thresholds and high intelligence, trainability and work ethic.


...I thought, "That, too, is a very good description of what I'm looking for in a pup." I know that my family and I would have a hard time dealing with a pup with extreme drive, but we definitely do want a dog that would be able to handle competition if we are able to go that route.

Too bad doggie ultrasounds aren't like people's, where they can tell how many and the gender of all the babies.  Then I'd know if I had a shot at one of 'em!

Thanks for the head's up for the Wildhaus dogs, everyone. Kinda bummed that I missed the boat on that one, since it's obvious that more than one person thinks they're excellent quality. 

My search continues ... hehe

Kaci


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

If you feel that Wildhaus is what you are looking for, I would contact the breeders anyway - there may be some pups available, or sometimes some pups become available at the last minute is another buyer backs out. Contacting them now will give you a better feel about the breedings and the breeder, and gives the breeder more time to get to know you and your goals and dog experience. 

You can let them know that you are in the looking and asking questions phase of your search, and that they are but one of the breeders you are looking at, but haven't made up your mind yet or that time frame of a pup available will play a big part in your decision - that is perfectly fine, as long as you are open. 

What isn't fine is people who contact a dozen breeders, tell them all that they want a pup from the next litter, then go with the first pup available and never go back to the other breeders to let them know that they were just stringing them along, but hey, we got our pup now, so who cares? (And I know that is not you!). 

So don't be afraid to call or email. Often if a breeder does not have what you are looking for, they may know of other breeders that do and pass that information along.


----------



## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

I LOOOVE the Wildhaus' dogs, would love to get a dog from there sometime. My breeder is here in Arizona. German Shepherd Puppies Arizona She has a litter now, they are more of an extreme working dog, Dyk, the dad, is my boy's dad and he is an awesome dog. She does have another litter bred and is due sometime in the middle of April.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also would talk to chris anyway...While these may not be geared towards schutzhund, there are other venues open to you, and in the end, I don' t think you were dead set on schutzhund correct?

Something else to consider, think about it this way, out of 100% how much of that percent do you want as a great family companion, how much do you want to do say, obed/agility/tracking maybe? how much schutzhund?

For me, first and foremost I have to be able to "live" with a dog, the rest is icing on the cake...I would still talk to chris


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You can also try :: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks a ton, everyone, for all the great recommendations!

I've emailed both Grand Canyon K9 and Bill Kulla regarding their litters. Unfortunately, after discussing the matter with my husband, it appears that we are going to have to pass on Wildhaus, simply because of the price issue. My husband is the one bringing home the paycheck currently (I'm a full-time student, atm), and he is pretty firm on the idea of going no higher than 1500, which needs to include shipping costs. Essentially, he said, "If we see a pup we like that is 1500 without shipping, I think we're going to have to look elsewhere." Wildhaus is 1500 without shipping, so sadly, they appear to be out of our price range.

I have several "lines" out, at the moment via email and such, and as I said, I've contacted the breeders that were recommended to me in this thread that look like a possibility for us, so hopefully, we'll hear back from some people soon. If we don't find what we're looking for in the price range we're needing, we will see if Marsha's Chita takes on her next breeding in August, and if that falls through, then it looks like getting a pup just isn't in the cards for us, since getting a pup any later than Dec or so won't be likely. We're planning on having a baby around the middle of next year or so, and having a brand new baby and brand new puppy at the same time doesn't seem like a good idea for us.

It may be that we just won't be able to find what we're looking for in our price range, and I'd rather accept the fact that we just can't bring a GSD into our life than bring one in that isn't good for our family, or vice versa.

Thanks again, everyone, and please--if there are more recommendations on breeders, keep them coming. I contact every one that fits what we are looking for. 

Kaci


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

$1500 is the norm. You should look at the breeders past litters and how much investment they put into their training and breeding program. 
Showlines go for $1000 or more than that! 
If you want to spend less, you may not be supporting a responsible breeder. 
The ones that charge $500 price range are probably not doing health tests or working their dogs. Supporting a good breeder is as important as the pup that will be living with you for 12+ years. Spread that $ over the dogs lifetime and it is a good deal! I love my Wildhaus pup, and saved for months while I was searching, then saved while waiting for the whelp/pup to come home(making sure I had extra for vetting and supplies).

Kelly at www.boeselagerkennel.com/index.html has a litter due to whelp any minute. She is a member here, but not on that often. She is in MI.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I too would say that Bill Kulla would be another one I would contact.

My best friend owns a pup out of his dogs and I see him every single day. Interact with him both in the home and out, train with him, play with him, see him in every situation possible, etc.. me and my friend laughing say we own 3 dogs since we are together all the time.  We also live in the same building. 

I can honestly say that this pup, although only 10.5 months old right now is an amazing representation of the breed.

Extreme drive WHEN NEEDED and can chill out in the house and miss a walk or two without being crazy. He is proving to be a great working dog and an amazing companion. Super awesome guy! Oh, and he has the most amazing grip I have ever seen on a dog!

Wild Wolf on this forum owns Hunter if you want to contact her about him.


----------



## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

You could check von Sontausen GSDs: von Sontausen German Shepherd Dogs

Julia is in California, near Sacramento.


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> $1500 is the norm. You should look at the breeders past litters and how much investment they put into their training and breeding program.
> Showlines go for $1000 or more than that!
> If you want to spend less, you may not be supporting a responsible breeder.
> The ones that charge $500 price range are probably not doing health tests or working their dogs. Supporting a good breeder is as important as the pup that will be living with you for 12+ years. Spread that $ over the dogs lifetime and it is a good deal! I love my Wildhaus pup, and saved for months while I was searching, then saved while waiting for the whelp/pup to come home(making sure I had extra for vetting and supplies).


Oh believe me, I don't begrudge good breeders charging 1500+ --I just know that anything above that is out of our price range right now, so that's why I said that if we can't find a good pup from a reputable breeder for the price range we're in, we won't be able to have a GSD for several years. I won't pay less money for a questionable dog--which is why I said I'd rather not bring one home than bring home a dog that isn't good for us or vice versa. 

Kaci


----------



## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Since you are looking at adding a baby very soon, have you considered a older dog that maybe retired to add to your family? Maybe even a rescue?


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I highly, highly recommend Bill Kulla / vom Geistwasser. Bill and Jen are extremely knowledgeable and phenomenal at matching someone with a pup that fits their wanted description.

My boy, Hunter, is my perfect dog. He is the ultimate companion with a phenomenal on/off switch, and he's a fantastic working dog when I turn him on. Even though he's only almost 11 months, he is exactly what I think a GSD should be. I am super excited to see him mature.

I will be getting my future dogs from Bill and Jen... I trust them SO much. They know their dogs, they train everyday and compete. They are producing amazing litters.

EDIT; I also want to mention that Hunter's nerves and temperament are SOLID.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well, the OP doesn't want to spend $1500, and Kulla's go for that....so they will have to save more, go with a rescue or buy from a breeder who doesn't charge the normal price for a quality working line.


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Wild Wolf said:


> I highly, highly recommend Bill Kulla / vom Geistwasser. Bill and Jen are extremely knowledgeable and phenomenal at matching someone with a pup that fits their wanted description.
> 
> My boy, Hunter, is my perfect dog. He is the ultimate companion with a phenomenal on/off switch, and he's a fantastic working dog when I turn him on. Even though he's only almost 11 months, he is exactly what I think a GSD should be. I am super excited to see him mature.
> 
> ...


They do breed amazing puppies! My dog is the perfect dog though, so your dog might have to be the second most perfect dog  He's been perfect since the day I brought him home and is still perfect at almost 5 years old. He's a sport dog and a pet dog and excels at both. I would definitely get another dog from them.


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Something else to consider, think about it this way, out of 100% how much of that percent do you want as a great family companion, how much do you want to do say, obed/agility/tracking maybe? how much schutzhund?


I would say we are probably looking at 80% family companion and 20% schutzhund prospect, if I had to put numbers to it. I really am interested in doing schutzhund, but first and foremost, this must be a family dog--especially because I may not be able to get into schutzhund even though I would like to.




Ace952 said:


> Since you are looking at adding a baby very soon, have you considered a older dog that maybe retired to add to your family? Maybe even a rescue?


I myself have considered a rescue and/or an older dog, but my husband *really* doesn't want to go that route--and since this dog won't only be mine (even though I'll be the one training it), he and I have to be on the same page. The rescue, mainly because he is extra nervous about having a dog with a potentially unknown background in the house when a new baby comes along (which I do understand and somewhat agree with), and the older dog, I think mainly because my husband never owned a dog and he really wants a puppy. We won't be getting any other dogs for at least a few years, not only because of the baby, but also because we don't feel we have enough space to accommodate more than one dog right now, and so, since this will be our only dog for awhile, I think he really wanted to have a puppy. He and I both sat down one day and made up a list of things that we both wanted in a dog. I wanted veto choice on breed, size (not a fan of little breeds, for instance), and temperament; he wanted a puppy. And since this is a family dog, we both have to be happy with the choice. 




onyx'girl said:


> Well, the OP doesn't want to spend $1500, and Kulla's go for that....so they will have to save more, go with a rescue or buy from a breeder who doesn't charge the normal price for a quality working line.


I do realize that tone doesn't translate well in the online medium, but I'm sensing a little bit of irritation from you on the matter of my price range. If I'm reading it wrong, I very much apologize--but if you are frustrated, I wanted to address/clarify the matter.

I'm absolutely aware of the price range of working lines and show lines--mostly because I asked a ton of questions when I first joined this forum.  I've owned GSDs my whole life, but this is the first time I've ever actually gone to the effort to research breeders, get referrals, etc. I was guilty in the past (unfortunately) of looking in the paper, seeing "AKC GSDs for sale", going to the "breeder's" house, picking out a pup, then taking it home. I got lucky that I didn't end up with genetically unsound dogs, although in looking back, my dogs were lacking temperament-wise in some ways from the GSD standard.

I have seen a good many breeders that were referred to me on these very forums that had dogs I would be absolutely honored to have as a part of my family, and their prices are completely, 100% reasonable in my opinion. I know without a doubt that these dogs are worth every penny--probably more, since most of these breeders are not out to make money, but to promote their breed. Unfortunately for me, that doesn't change my own price limit of $1,500 including shipping, simply because we won't be able to support more than that in our budget this year.

Saving more money would seem the logical answer, and we would absolutely rather do that than buy an inferior dog--but because of our family planning, if we don't get a pup this year, we have decided we will have to wait until the baby is a few years old before we bring a puppy home. And we do realize that our time constraint will limit our options--and possibly even make it so that we can't have a puppy this year at all. We are fully aware of all of the shortcomings of our personal situation, and we have accepted that we may just have to wait a few years.

However, we are still _trying_, because if we _can_ bring a good pup home this year, we'd like to. If we have to accept defeat, we will--but not without trying, first. 

I apologize to everyone if this thread I've created is causing some frustration, because it seems like we are wanting "something for nothing"--wanting a top quality dog for next to no money, etc. I promise we have looked at this from all sides, and we're just _trying_ to see if we can find what we are looking for. If we can't, we know and completely agree with the reasons why.


On a slightly separate note, I was following a different thread in this forum (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/176679-anyone-heard-kerstone-shepherds.html) and I saw many people recommend Crooked Creek (Services), despite the fact that her dogs aren't titled. Karen (I think that's what everyone said her name was?) even sent me a private message when I first came to these forums and let me know she had some pups that seemed to fit what I was looking for, and in looking at her breedings, I was interested.

However, after doing tons of reading here and after the responses I got to many of my questions, I got the very strong impression that I should _never_ consider a breeder who doesn't have their breeding dogs titled, so I backed off--and even revised my "wish list" for the pup we want to include that the parents had to be titled. I was made to understand that unless the dogs were titled, the breeder was not a good one to support.

In reading the thread I linked above, I saw many people endorsing Crooked Creek because she has a ton of testimonials from previous buyers (many of whom HAVE titled their pups from her), and does a ton of health testing on her dogs. In addition, her pups are also within the price range (including shipping) that my family can do this year, I think. I _personally_ don't mind if someone hasn't titled their dogs--I just thought, after all the advice I received--that I should ONLY consider titled dogs. As I mentioned at the top of this post--a good family companion is the most important aspect for me, but I would like a good, solid drive and temperament so that, if I am able to get into schutzhund as I would like to, the dog is able to rise to the challenge.

Knowing this ... is Crooked Creek a breeder I should consider after all? I don't mean to throw them to the sharks, or anything, and if anyone has anything bad to say, please make sure to PM me and not badmouth them in public.

I'm just trying to do the right thing. We want to have a GSD as a part of our family, and we are prepared to wait a few years if we have to. We were just trying, first.

Kaci


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I like Karen, will say it again< I like how she raises her dogs/puppies, tho she may not be handling her own dogs to title, there are alot of them out there doing things, SAR, obed, police,,she's donated puppies to FIdelco (blind dog org here in CT) I'm not sure about schutzhund tho.

I'll also say this again, I don't have a problem with buying a puppy from untitled parents, if it was something I wanted and fit with what I wanted. I am not a diehard "if the dog isn't titled I'm not buying a puppy from it" person. 

My prime focus is, temperament and health. I will admit, if I were looking to do something 'specific' as schutzhund, I would be looking to a breeder who does schutzhund because I am not that familiar with how to pick a puppy 'for' schutzhund. 

But I dont' participate in that 

For me, I wouldn't have a problem saying "yes" to one of karen's dogs, but there are also alot of people I would have no problem saying yes to as well..


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

kejhix said:


> I would say we are probably looking at 80% family companion and 20% schutzhund prospect, if I had to put numbers to it. I really am interested in doing schutzhund, but first and foremost, this must be a family dog--especially because I may not be able to get into schutzhund even though I would like to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would certainly check out CC, from all the dogs I've seen on the boards/FB, they are great family companions and healthy.


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> My prime focus is, temperament and health. I will admit, if I were looking to do something 'specific' as schutzhund, I would be looking to a breeder who does schutzhund because I am not that familiar with how to pick a puppy 'for' schutzhund.


Because schutzhund is also new to me, I am in the same boat--I would have no idea how to pick out a "high drive" pup from its littermates that would have a better shot at doing well at schutzhund, so it makes sense that I should focus on schutzhund breeders.  Thanks for your input on this!

Thanks also to Jane--I PMd you. 

Earlier in this thread, someone recommended Grand Canyon K9 (German Shepherd Puppies Arizona). I contacted them and got a response, and they _appear_ to have what I'm looking for in the price range I'm needing. I PMd someone here privately whose opinion I respect to have a look at the website, and they said they look good on paper, for sure. However, I also received a PM from another person who said to avoid them, but I haven't heard back as to why, yet.

If there is anyone else out there who has opinions on this breeder, please let me know. PM, of course, if it's bad news.

Thanks everyone. I really, really appreciate all the advice and information I'm getting. You guys are the best. 

Kaci


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Kaci, I would talk to cliff here on the board, he can 'peg' a pedigree/dog and would give you his honest opinion. He's a wealth of knowledge


----------



## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

I also own a dog from Bill and Jen and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for a puppy since I am a first time GSD owner as well. Every now and then Elaine mentions giving away her Boy jokingly, but she never takes me up on the offer even though we live so close to the mountains and can offer an outdoor lifestyle for him LOL.

Take your time and research the breeders, ask questions (Bill and Jen will gladly answer them patiently). If you need to wait a bit longer, then wait a bit longer rather than compromise.


----------



## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

K guys, maybe I'm misreading.. but I see there is a baby coming, and you want a high drive working pup, the wife ( who will be having a newborn) is the one training, and have no experience in schutzhund? That may be a little much :shocked: Come on guys... comment?


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The OP seems to have a good understanding of what she wants and what she can handle. Any of the breeders recommended here will be able to match this family with a pup of the right energy level, drive and temperament. They are mostly looking for a companion dog that can do Schutzhund for fun if they so wish to pursue that avenue. That is easy to find in the working lines from breeders who breed for balance (i.e, NOT extreme drive or hardness).


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

tintallie said:


> I also own a dog from Bill and Jen and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for a puppy since I am a first time GSD owner as well. Every now and then Elaine mentions giving away her Boy jokingly, but she never takes me up on the offer even though we live so close to the mountains and can offer an outdoor lifestyle for him LOL.
> 
> Take your time and research the breeders, ask questions (Bill and Jen will gladly answer them patiently). If you need to wait a bit longer, then wait a bit longer rather than compromise.


That's only to keep him on his toes. LOL! I love that darn dog way too much to actually ever let him go. Although, when he drops a bar in agility, it's tempting.....


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

dazedtrucker said:


> K guys, maybe I'm misreading.. but I see there is a baby coming, and you want a high drive working pup, the wife ( who will be having a newborn) is the one training, and have no experience in schutzhund? That may be a little much :shocked: Come on guys... comment?


Hi there. 

Just to clarify, I'm not even pregnant, yet. My husband and I won't be "officially" trying until June or so, so we are planning on the baby arriving anytime from March, onward. That's why we are wanting to get a pup somewhat soon, so that we have time to get him acclimated and started in basic obedience before the new baby comes along. And heck, if we don't get pregnant right away, we'll have even more time to work with the pup.

You are correct in that I have no experience in Schutzhund, but I do have extensive experience in obedience training and some basic protection evaluation/training experience (although, rest assured that I am under no illusion that this is sufficient for Schutzhund). My father (who was a K9 police officer) worked with me with two of my dogs when I was younger (high school age and up) on protection training. The first dog, unfortunately, did not have the appropriate temperament for protection work, and my second dog ... well, when my mother was diagnosed with cancer and died shortly thereafter, life just got in the way and I couldn't continue. So, while I am most definitely new to Schutzhund, I'm not 100% naive in how to handle a working dog.

But, as Lucia already said, I'm absolutely NOT looking for a super high-drive pup. I'm looking for a family dog that has enough drive for me to get involved in Schutzhund. I'm not looking for a dog to take to level 3 and compete nationally. I just want a dog that I can take to a Schutzhund trainer and be able to be involved in the sport at a beginner's level.

Hope that clarifies my situation a little bit.  I'm definitely not foolish enough to want an intense, high-drive puppy that will be miserable unless he is working 24/7. I just want one that has enough drive to not shy away from bite work, like my first Shepherd I mentioned above. hehe

Thanks, everyone. 

Kaci


----------



## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

Not every pup in a working litter is high energy, high drive. There is a spectrum and this is information you need to communicate with a breeder so that an appropriate pup is chosen for you. 

Bill and Jen are upfront about their breedings and will tell you if you match their pups or not. They can also refer you to someone who might have a pup that is more appropriate. 

I give my dog appropriate exercise (physical and mental) so that she settles nicely in the house.


----------



## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

dazedtrucker said:


> K guys, maybe I'm misreading.. but I see there is a baby coming, and you want a high drive working pup, the wife ( who will be having a newborn) is the one training, and have no experience in schutzhund? That may be a little much :shocked: Come on guys... comment?


 As one who's been involved in schutzhund for over 20 years, and with horses (showing,training, riding instructor, etc) prior and during, and raised 3 kids in the midst of this, if the OP has a good handle on things (appears to), I don't see this as an issue.
Sue


----------



## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

to the OP, $1500 is reasonable. i wouldnt pay for any pup more than $1200, puppies are crapshoot at best no matter their pedigree, pedigree is only an indication of potential. But $1200 an up seems to be the market value of most working pups. The market dictates the prices just like everything else.

I suggest calling crooked creek or vonhartwin, ask your questions, ask for references, call those references, OR go to their facebook page, look for random names that posted comments on their wall about their dogs, msg those people and ask your questions. 
if you are concerned about crooked creek not titling their dogs, research vonhartwin kennels, crooked creek owns a dog from vonhartwin- that would tell you something. vonhartwin prices are within your price range, $800. they title their own dogs with good pedigree. Contact the members of the kansas working dog club, ask them what they think of vonhartwin kennels.

_"We are a small kennel consisting of quality European line GSD's. We live on 23 Acres just outside 
of Topeka Kansas on the Prairie Band Potawatomi Indian reservation.

I am a proud tribal member of the Prairie Band Potawatomi Nation. My passion for dogs began 20 
some years ago with my first GSD named Shoe. I have titled several dogs in the sport of 
Schutzhund as well as AKC and other dog sports. I am the current Secretary and contact for 
Kansas Working Dog Club.

John is a certified helper and excellent handler with many accomplishments under his belt 
including national level competitor with his first Sch3 dog, Alina. He is President and Training 
Director for KWDC.

We are very active members of Kansas Working dog Club (KWDC), Working Dog Club of America 
(WDA), United States Mondio Ring Association (USMRA), & the Topeka Kennel Club (TKC)"

_


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Kaci, I would talk to cliff here on the board, he can 'peg' a pedigree/dog and would give you his honest opinion. He's a wealth of knowledge


That's a really good idea. I just looked at an old thread the other day, someone asking about a breeding and he looked back at the pedigree and gave input that was truly :shocked: and hugely important, I thought, regarding temperament.


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

Just wanted to give a "final" update on our search for a breeder. After 188 email exchanges (I have a folder where I put all related emails to breeders, and saw that number. ), we finally decided on getting our pup from Germelhaus.

Thank you SO much to everyone who took the time to give me advice, information, and breeder recommendations. We appreciate it SO much, and now we are just very anxious for July when we'll bring our new pup home. 

Kaci


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Nice! I've heard only good things about Mellodee. Do you know which litter you're getting a pup from?


----------



## kejhix (Mar 16, 2012)

It will be H, I, or J, but beyond that, I don't know. MelloDee knows what we are looking for in a pup, and since those three litters are due around the same time, she will be waiting to watch the pups as they mature to decide which one will have the best temperament/drive for us. 

Kaci


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Good Luck, she is an excellent breeders.
Cliff


----------

