# Versailles Pedigree



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Now that I've got all my paperwork back in the mail and such, I thought it'd be interesting to get peoples thoughts on her pedigree. I know I think she's a great dog, but I still don't quite get pedigrees and would love to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly... dun dun dun! Just for fun more than anything else from people who know what they're looking at. Pretty much the only dog I know about are Wum, Ellute and Tom, and even that is limited. I have heard negatives on some of the hips in the pedigree, but I'm just hoping for the best on that.

I'd love to hear thoughts on what genetics say she should be! LOL

Versailles von zur Bindenburg - German Shepherd Dog


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Some very nice individual dogs in this pedigree with strong elements of sport and strong elements of real.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Awesome, thanks for the response!


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I didn't see any reason for special concern about the hips in any of the dogs in the pedigree. I'm curious what dogs were you told could produce hip problems?


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Pm'd you


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

It's been a while.. curious if I could get any other thoughts now that she is older? Just find it interesting to see what people would expect versus what I have.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Why don't you give us your thoughts now that she's older? She's such a baby, though. I think she really won't be "herself" until she's almost 2.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Very high prey drive, can be a little over the top and frantic at times which requires some extra work. Doesn't have a great "off switch" in the house but is manageable with patience. Strong nerve, nice level of aggression in protection work but off the field is a tad overly social. Definitely more sport elements than "real" elements so far, but definitely see the potential to bring more suspicion as she matures. Strong drive to perform obedience for both food and the toy. Does not have a naturally full grip but that is something that can be fixed. Very vocal. No handler aggression issues. Absolutely no end to her willingness to be out doing something.. after running, training, playing, she is still ready to do something. One day off causes frustration and it makes me work pretty hard to tire her out. Strong, confident bark and takes stress well. VERY nice female and I am excited to see her mature.


Edit: I am going to get her prelim xrays for her hips here within the next few weeks. I don't have any concerns but am curious to see how they are developing. Her health overall is excellent.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi Shaina!

Sometimes what you're seeing as hectic and frantic can be a training/handling issue. Often, the "standard" way to start pups in bitework can contribute to this issue. It can usually be corrected. JME.

New pics?


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Haha... we are certainly working on the behavior. It is something I'd like to get under control and we are getting there, but I do not personally believe it is something I am doing wrong.. she is just very eager for a few things - bite work, her ball, and the swimming pool. When I get her out of the pool she will be trembling terribly and whines nonstop. It is just an over the top drive state that I have yet to break.. but we'll get there. I do not believe it is contributed to bite work but I could be wrong.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

She's not yet a year--I hope that she's not be worked in defense much at all. Fight drive is a different matter.

Her conformation is very nice.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Her first time working in defense was about two weeks ago with Elmar Mannes during a four day seminar. Up until that point she had been worked purely in prey. She reacted exactly as anybody would like in a young dog. Her fight drive is also strong, possession for the sleeve was weak a few weeks ago but has been something we've been working on and is now much better. I could not get her to carry the sleeve without trying to kill it, drop it, and look back to the decoy but now she will carry it nicely and her "outs" are clean.

Thank you, I think she is a very pretty dog.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Shaina said:


> Her first time working in defense was about two weeks ago with Elmar Mannes during a four day seminar. Up until that point she had been worked purely in prey. She reacted exactly as anybody would like in a young dog. Her fight drive is also strong, possession for the sleeve was weak a few weeks ago but has been something we've been working on and is now much better. I could not get her to carry the sleeve without trying to kill it, drop it, and look back to the decoy but now she will carry it nicely and her "outs" are clean.
> 
> Thank you, I think she is a very pretty dog.


Yeah, I have no doubt that Mannes knew what he was doing--that's someone I'd trust to read my young dog exactly right. 

Did her parents get OFA'd?


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

He did an excellent job and it was an absolute pleasure to work with him. He is a great guy and an incredible trainer. Though he actually believes that dogs should be worked in defense much younger than 11 months.. something I personally disagree with doing myself but I know many dogs have been trained this way and have done great. Wayne Walcott is the trainer I work with in my club on a regular basis and he has been helping me with her in a way we both definitely agree with.

Waika (her mother) has not been OFA'd to my knowledge, or at least had not when I got my pup.. this may have changed since then. Wum (father) is OFA'd a2, and belongs to Kevin Lanouette. Wum qualified for the World Team this year but did not compete. 

I got her as a very spur of the moment litter pick when my previous trainer, Tim Cruser, talked to Kevin about the litter and offered me pick female. A week later, I got my little love


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Shaina, you misunderstood my post. That was a general statement relating to, as I said, common ways of starting pups, ie, "drive building." When you have a dog who has enough drive already, there's no need for that, imo. I have bred pups that get a little hectic *IF* they are worked like that young. The ones I have raised myself and done literally NO "drive-building" with at all are fine once they start real bitework. The others have been hyped up too much on objects and need to be calmed down before working in real aggression. Sometimes a dog is capable of a lot more aggression than it's given credit for because of the way it's been brought up. I wasn't making a personal handling comment so much as a "today this is common." 

Am I thinking of a different dog, or wasn't she in the box pretty young? For the record, I see no reason to pick an "age" for defense; that varies with every dog and for some dogs, it's very effective, so I am not judging negatively at all. I remember some negative comments about those pictures (if it's even your dog I'm remembering). I am truly just asking.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I have a few pictures of her on the table working in her "growing up" album, but nobody commented on them so I'm not sure if it is my dog you are thinking of. THat is, if you are saying "the box" in regards to "the table". She has been doing prey work on the table for a while, just not sure if this is what you're talking about.

We may have done a bit of drive building training, but not a whole lot because as you said, it was not necessary. When I build drive with her, it is generally a few seconds of teasing her with the ball/toy and then putting it under my arm to fuss. 

I do get what you are saying an appreciate the input. She has been raised as a pet first, schutzhund dog second, and that HAS definitely caused some hurdles.. but she is the type of dog that learns quickly and is easy to fix issues thankfully. 










Is this what you were referring to?


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Versailles and Ezra are pretty closely related. Ez's sire Uruk is a littermate of Waika. Ez and Versailles look pretty similar too. 

Howdy cousin!


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

BR870 said:


> Versailles and Ezra are pretty closely related. Ez's sire Uruk is a littermate of Waika. Ez and Versailles look pretty similar too.
> 
> Howdy cousin!



Look at that! How great. They do look similar  Cute pup! Versailles says to tell her cuz hayyyyy! Good to see a littermate of Waika OFA Good since I don't know her rating. I know that doesn't mean too much, but still nice to see.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Lotta Yoschy, .....Yoschy is a dog that I think has to be very carefully paired with.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Shaina said:


> I got her as a very spur of the moment litter pick when my previous trainer, Tim Cruser, talked to Kevin about the litter and offered me pick female. A week later, I got my little love


Such a small GSD world! I worked with Tim some when he was here in Virginia, and I bred my first litter to his competition dog, Quattro. The dog in my avatar is a Quattro great-granddaughter, in fact.

(Actually, Kevin L. was working with the Central Va Sch Club at that time, too!)


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## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

Beautiful dog! I am learning a lot from this thread. 

I am curious about Yoschy. I see a lot of him in pedigrees. What does he bring that one must be careful about who they pair him with?


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

He can bring frenzy, inability to cap, shades of nerviness....when mixed with certain dogs....not always by any means, but enough for me to want a certain balance bought to a breeding that I see him in. He also had some nice positives, but I think his mother Mona brought some of these nerve issues to the table. But I am not one to place the results of these type things solely on one dog....cause if you mate the same dog with a compensating partner...you may well not see these traits.


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## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

Thank you cliffson1. I learn something everyday on this forum.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Such a small GSD world! I worked with Tim some when he was here in Virginia, and I bred my first litter to his competition dog, Quattro. The dog in my avatar is a Quattro great-granddaughter, in fact.
> 
> (Actually, Kevin L. was working with the Central Va Sch Club at that time, too!)


That is awesome! I actually worked at Tim and Lori's new boarding facility in Colorado for over two years since the day it opened. They're like family to me - definitely are the reason I got into the sport and into GSD's in general. I never met Quattro, but I have heard a lot about him. That is very neat 

Interesting as well @Cliff, like I said she does have some issues with getting over the top in drive and needs to have a handler who can bring her down in that state. I've learned how to manage it on the field but there are still times that she makes me want to pull my hair out. Still, I think they must have done something right pairing him, or I just got lucky. I know Kevin held back a male from this litter and said he is also a strong working dog. 

Love learning new things!


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