# new puppy. please help



## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

So, about a week ago i got a female GSD, she was said to be 8 weeks old.... a girl I went to school with dogs had puppy....both parents are full GSD, not registered though.*

Anyways, back to where i was... i got this puppy a week ago sunday.... she was supposedly born November 14th.... she is tiny... very very tiny. Im taking her to the vet in the morning... but i need some peace of mind now. I know that getting a puppy from a back yard breeder is wrong... but i couldnt stand the fate of these puppies so i took one. Im not even sure she weighs 6 pounds! She eats hard food okay... not perfect but she does good. She drinks good. Ive noticed she goes up to my 9 year old female boxer and tries to nurse from her..

As soon as i figure out how, i will attach some pics of her....*


Can anyone tell me how old they think she is?!


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

More pics of her


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## Lwilley (Jan 1, 2014)

6 weeks?


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

Thats what im thinking.... i seen other pics of GSD at 8 huge and they are huge compared to her.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't know how old she is, but why do you doubt your friend? If she's eating, drinking, and pooping, don't panic. You have her now, enjoy her.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

How many pups were in the litter? What were they being fed, did the breeder do wormings on the pups? How long have they been weaned? Even if you aren't into supporting this breeder, she should be more than willing to share the puppies history.
I would NOT vaccinate at the first vet visit, if she is only 6 weeks. Bring her in crated to the vet, put her on a towel, and do not put her on the floor or let her walk around at the vet. Wait til she is 8 weeks for the first set of vaccines, but you should do wormings every two weeks for three treatments. Get her on a good nutritious diet(look here in the puppy nutrition forums, not take what the vet may suggest on feeding advice) 
You don't want rapid growth just because she is small now, slow growth with proper calcium and phosphorus levels is very important.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She looks more like five or six weeks old than 8 weeks. 

Even 8 week old pups will try to nurse if they aren't separated from their dam for a time period prior to going home. That doesn't concern me, if she is eating the hard food ok.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

She looks about 5 or 6 weeks old. When I adopted Chama she was 5 weeks old (they gave her brothers away at 4 weeks old) and she nursed Massie's elbow for a couple of weeks. 

She did fine though -- she just hadn't been fully weaned.


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

I just thibk she is very small... there isnt an issue. I believe she said there was ten puppies puppies in the litter. I doubt her because she isnt really a close friend. Someone i went to high school with, i graduated in 2009. We talked very rarely. 

I mean my puppy, kimber, is very playful... she doesn't really show too many signs of being too young besides her size. Ive noticed she doesnt sniff to go potty either... she just poops or pees where she is standing


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

Okay, here is another pic. Sorry for the overload. Lol i take pictures with her everyday. I took this, this morning. Just to maybe give a better picture of her size... im small... 5 foot 110 somethin pounds. So as you can tell....shes tiny. But absolutely beautiful. Also, to the person who said she was bi color, she is. Both of her parents are bi color. Momma is a faded bi color and daddy is a rich bi color.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

No matter what, your pup is adorable, and so chunky! What is her name? Enjoy!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Cute pup, I agree she looks to be around 6 weeks.

She's a black and tan, not a bicolour as she has far too much tan already.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Two of my Shepherds we're smaller then their litter mates at 7wks when I brought them home. Both of them were bigger then their litter mates at 4mos. You can't do anything but guess right now. Take her to the vet for a complete check up and switch from that beneful to something better.


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

Im taking her to the vet at 130.... what other food could i feed her? We feed our boxer beneful, thats the only thing she will eat... so we chose that incase she tried to he the puppys food. She is a little chunky butt though, just short. Lol. Ive heard that feeding a raw diet is best... but i have no idea what that is.. sorry for all the questions.... but this is our first GSD.... i just want to make sure we do everything right! 

Has anyone ever tried to clicker train one before? I would like to do that with her, seems alot of dogs catch on to that pretty easy. Right now she has to interest in treats and training... which is making potty training difficult! Lol


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

This website rates different foods:
Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor

I stick with foods that are rated highly or described as a premium food. Different dogs do well on different foods. The main brands I use are Taste of The Wild and Evo, but it will depend on your dogs.

I don't leave food down for them to decide if they'll eat it or not. If you create a routine with feeding times and keep the dogs separate, the boxer will learn to eat what you give her.

I think raw, real food is better then a processed food. I think you'll be better off right now, just using a premium, healthy dog food for right now while you look more into a raw diet. 

I use a clicker for some things. Some things I prefer my voice, but potty training isnt about treats, its about a consistent routine.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

cpearson31 said:


> I mean my puppy, kimber, is very playful... she doesn't really show too many signs of being too young besides her size. Ive noticed she doesnt sniff to go potty either... she just poops or pees where she is standing


Because she's a baby, she doesn't have the capability to really hold her bladder. So she'll be playing or walking across the room and suddenly it just let's go. The only time you'll see "a sign" is when she wakes up because she has to go. 

You'll need to take her out, every hour and encourage her to go. When she does, throw a party. If she goes in the house, you've made the error, not her. 

As she gets older, her ability to hold her bladder will increase. When she has to go, she'll let you know.


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

Well, we just got home from the vet... my kimber is just barely around 6 weeks old.... and weighs a wopping 4 pounds! 

Fecal tested negative. Everything looks good. Vet said to change her food to a top rated large breed puppy food. She got a set of "temporary shots." We go back in 3 weeks to see if shes grown any and for another set of shots. 

Thank you all so much for all the information... please please feel free to share with me your stories on your babies... how you trained them, how much they have grown, how they act... anything is welcomed!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Look at this site for vaccination information...6 weeks is way too young for vaccinating. I wish your vet would also look at this. Maybe print it out for them!
Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | 2013 and 2014 Canine Vaccination Protocol - W....

There are many threads in the puppy forums that will help answer any questions you may have. As well as nutrition threads. Bite inhibition will be something to learn about as your puppy has been taken from littermates at a very young age. 

Here is another site to read up on growth/development, there are many great articles on this website. Diamonds in the Ruff

Does your state have any laws on age/sale of pups?


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## Christieb24 (Nov 11, 2014)

cpearson31 said:


> So, about a week ago i got a female GSD, she was said to be 8 weeks old.... a girl I went to school with dogs had puppy....both parents are full GSD, not registered though.*
> 
> Anyways, back to where i was... i got this puppy a week ago sunday.... she was supposedly born November 14th.... she is tiny... very very tiny. Im taking her to the vet in the morning... but i need some peace of mind now. I know that getting a puppy from a back yard breeder is wrong... but i couldnt stand the fate of these puppies so i took one. Im not even sure she weighs 6 pounds! She eats hard food okay... not perfect but she does good. She drinks good. Ive noticed she goes up to my 9 year old female boxer and tries to nurse from her..
> 
> ...


Well first off...she is adorable!! I have a male GSD . He's 4 months now but he was 8 weeks when I got him and quite a bit bigger. I TOO can't figure out how to post a pic but if I do i'll post one of him. If she is eating and drinking and pooping fine I agree with some of the other..enjoy her


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

yes, there is a law in our state... 8 weeks or older. I wasn't going to do the shots yet...but it kind of happened before I could say anything...

I still think that 4 pounds is small for her but the vet said because of the litter size... she going to be smaller. 

Thank you for the sites, it seems to explain what I have to do with her when she reaches each mark...





onyx'girl said:


> Look at this site for vaccination information...6 weeks is way too young for vaccinating. I wish your vet would also look at this. Maybe print it out for them!
> Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | 2013 and 2014 Canine Vaccination Protocol - W....
> 
> There are many threads in the puppy forums that will help answer any questions you may have. As well as nutrition threads. Bite inhibition will be something to learn about as your puppy has been taken from littermates at a very young age.
> ...


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Read the Dr Dodds protocol and tell the assistant and vet what you want, repeat yourself if need be. I just took my two females in for rabies only, told the front office that from the get go, they still had me set up for for the other stuff, be courteous, but firm. Also watch out around 4 months, they may try to give a 5/7 in 1 along with the rabies all in one visit so be ready for that.


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

I take her back to the vet on the 5th of feb.... I am hoping that by that time she has grown hopefully double (maybe triple) her weight now. I will be starting her on a blue buffalo tonight... easing into it that is. After doing more research... she is still way to small for her age... 3-5 pounds... 

when I take her back I will tell them that I do not need or want any shots for her. I will have to read up on it Dr. Dodds.... ive always been told they HAVE to have their shots. they said he has to have shots every 3 weeks up until she is 18 weeks old.. seems like a lot to me.


anything I can do to have her grow and gain weight?



Nigel said:


> Read the Dr Dodds protocol and tell the assistant and vet what you want, repeat yourself if need be. I just took my two females in for rabies only, told the front office that from the get go, they still had me set up for for the other stuff, be courteous, but firm. Also watch out around 4 months, they may try to give a 5/7 in 1 along with the rabies all in one visit so be ready for that.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

cpearson31 said:


> I take her back to the vet on the 5th of feb.... I am hoping that by that time she has grown hopefully double (maybe triple) her weight now. I will be starting her on a blue buffalo tonight... easing into it that is. After doing more research... she is still way to small for her age... 3-5 pounds...
> 
> when I take her back I will tell them that I do not need or want any shots for her. I will have to read up on it Dr. Dodds.... ive always been told they HAVE to have their shots. they said he has to have shots every 3 weeks up until she is 18 weeks old.. seems like a lot to me.
> 
> ...


She DOES need her "puppy shots", 

Some vets go with a series of 3, some 4. Our vet goes with [email protected] 8weeks, 12wks, and 16wks. On the last set @16 weeks they may want to combine the 3rd set with the rabies, for my last pup i did the 3rd @ 16wks as mentioned, then came back for rabies a few weeks later. Anyways read up on Dr Dodds, I don't want to confuse you, lol


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## marreromcp (Oct 15, 2014)

I really wouldn't worry about it, as long as she eats and drinks fine. They have weight gainers and other supps you can buy, but I wouldn't give it to her since GSD are very sensitive to stomach issues. Just feed her or water down her food so she eats sufficient. I don't like to compare dog weights since its like comparing human weight or height. Congrats on the pup!

btw) I feed my dog Blue Buffalo Wilderness (it has high protein and grain free)




cpearson31 said:


> I take her back to the vet on the 5th of feb.... I am hoping that by that time she has grown hopefully double (maybe triple) her weight now. I will be starting her on a blue buffalo tonight... easing into it that is. After doing more research... she is still way to small for her age... 3-5 pounds...
> 
> when I take her back I will tell them that I do not need or want any shots for her. I will have to read up on it Dr. Dodds.... ive always been told they HAVE to have their shots. they said he has to have shots every 3 weeks up until she is 18 weeks old.. seems like a lot to me.
> 
> ...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I'm sorry, but I would fire your vet. 

That pup is 4-5 weeks old and way too young for vaccinations. At this point the pup is under its mother's immunity and the shots won't work anyway. They can only do harm and not good at this point. 

10 pups, IF the pups have a serious worm load. Did this genius check a stool sample and worm your puppy? I'm sorry, but it is infuriating. A GSD puppy at 6 weeks old should be at least six pounds, I don't care how many puppies there were in the litter. 4 pounds is two thirds the size of a normal puppy at that age, and if that is the case, then we want to look at why that is. 

And it is NOT normal for a six week old puppy to just poop and pee without squatting or making any reaction, sniff, assume the position, pee or poop.

The puppy is definitely black and tan. Probably will be a saddle back pattern. A bi-color would be almost all black at this stage. 

I hope you dodged a bullet with the shots. Do not take the puppy anywhere where there is high dog traffic -- no dog parks, no pet stores. Do not set it down at the vet. It will NOT be immune to anything do to these shots. The mother's immunity will wear off, at some point. Getting shots at 8 weeks is probably the thing to do -- 4 weeks from now, and keep the baby home until then. Then, wait until the next set of shots to take the pup to any stores or high dog-traffic areas. And give that set of shots a few days to build up antibodies. Parvo and Distemper are killers. Your pup is at risk. Serious risk. 

If the dam was properly vaccinated against these diseases, the pup will have some immunity, but we don't know when that will wear off: Six weeks, 8? 10? It is hard to say. I believe that it depends on that first 24 hours when the pups were drinking colostrum rather than milk, so it does not really matter if the pups were weaned younger than another litter. Being safe is the key. Even then, there are no guaranties. But at least you will have done all you could.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

For gaining weight, feed your puppy 4 or even 6 times a day. Small meals. Balanced. I would not do raw unless you know what you are doing, and I would stick with a decent large breed puppy food. Normally, I would go with a good adult food, but your pup is having a rough start. There is time later, when your pup is and looks like a 3 or 4 month old pup, to switch to raw or adding in extras. Lets get her over the rough stuff first.


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## cpearson31 (Jan 15, 2015)

I guess I should have clarified.... Kimber said squat to pee and poop. its just like she stops walking..squats...then pee..then back to whatever it was she was doing... 

I do not think that I should fire my vet... I have had the same Doc see all my animals for the last 20 years... shes the only person I have ever taken my animals too and she has never lead me in the wrong way before or put my animals in harms way. I believe that if she said Kimber is 6 weeks old, then that she is 6 weeks old. Also, I should have stated she didn't receive a full set of shots... just what the doc thought she needed... as I didn't know or have proof that the mother was even vaccinated... The person I got her from said she was, but then again she also said Kimber was 8 weeks old and she not. Also, the vet did a fecal sample and it came back negative for everything. I was told when I picked her up that she had been wormed, so I guess she didn't lie there. 

I think Kimber is fine, she acts like a normal puppy. She loves to play, get into stuff and bite my toes as im getting ready for work in the morning. I don't think there is anything wrong with her besides the fact that she is younger than I thought and underweight... Ive been told that puppies born from a large litter are going to be small (right now) than puppies born from say, a litter of 4. She was also the runt and fromk what I was told always pushed off the nipple..I think she will be good once she gets a bit older.. get some more meat on her bones and grows. Like I said.... she doesn't show any sign or symptom of being sick, ive had her for a week now. She is very energetic.

I do plan on keeping her very safe and not taking her anywhere until she is older.. 

Thank you all soo much for your information!!




selzer said:


> I'm sorry, but I would fire your vet.
> 
> That pup is 4-5 weeks old and way too young for vaccinations. At this point the pup is under its mother's immunity and the shots won't work anyway. They can only do harm and not good at this point.
> 
> ...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have been with my vet since I was 14 -- approximately 32 years. I love them. They take care of me, they take care of my pets. They have been understanding about things. They have come in on Sunday when the office was closed for an emergency. 

They have also been dead wrong a few times. I have lost a puppy because of it, and I would have lost the other two had I not driven away and called a different vet and drove the dam and pups for hours to get them where they needed to be. I did not fire them. But I do not just believe everything they say either. I listen, and most of the time, I choose to believe what they say. I think they are very competent. Sometimes, I choose to take another path, and they accept that too. 

A true-runt has something wrong with it, it is not just smaller than its littermates. As for worming, that needs to be done every 2 weeks. A negative stool sample does not mean that there are no worms. It means that they cannot detect any worm eggs currently in the stool. Which is good. Some worms do not shed eggs all the time, hooks I think. So, you would need LOTS of negative samples to ensure they are not there. And it just makes sense to go ahead and worm the puppy. 

The wormer kills worms at some stages, but worms at other stages of development are protected, so they must be killed again in a few weeks. Also, since puppies are poopie, sorry, it's true, they often ingest their wormy poop and reinfect themselves, so to get worm-free the breeder worms every two weeks pretty much until they go home, and then your vet worms them once a month while they get shots.

What the negative fecal tells us is that your puppy does not have, and did not have a large worm load. This is significant, because it begs the question, why so small? Puppies are born around a pound, give or take. Anywhere from 12 ounces to 24 ounces can be typical. Then they start growing after the first 24 hours by about 2 to 4 ounces a day So by the time they are a week old they should be weighing in at 2 pounds. As the pup gets bigger, it sucks more strongly, and it grows at a higher rate. 6 ounces in a day, or more. So by week 2 the pups will weigh in at 3-4 pounds. It goes up from there. 

If your puppy is still at 4 pounds, and the vet can tell by its teeth that it is six weeks old, and it isn't competing with worms, we need to know why the puppy is not thriving. If the pup is 4 weeks old and 4 pounds -- that is not unheard of and the puppy may just be young and small, but otherwise healthy. If the pup is six weeks old, then something is going on. 

I would get a second opinion, and ask a vet how to give your puppy its best shot at gaining weight properly. Some vets push Science Diet or Purina or Iams, which are all not so good foods. But they would be better than going willy nilly and adding stuff to this pup's diet to try to get it to gain. It needs balance. We do not want to love this puppy so much that we give it a stumbling block. Maybe a holistic vet or a vet with a specialty in nutrition would be worth the money on this one.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

You've been given some solid advice here by people who care and want your puppy to thrive. You learning and helping your puppy thrive is what keeps these people here helping the next person. The advice being given is solid and comes from a great deal of experience. I sincerely hope you read thoroughly and research. Don't be led blindly by your vet, they Do make mistakes, some that can be costly to your puppy.
I too have a vet I'd had for 20+ years and as I evolve into a more educated pet owner I have challenged some of his views. We have agreed to disagree at times but I always do what I want for my dog..not always what the vet wants. They can be pushy. The only way for you to have good discussions with your vet is to become educated.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I also had a vet for almost 30 years. They misdiagnosed one of my dogs at 6 months of age as having "severe hip dysplasia" when it was only Panosteitis....how can a vet who has been practicing for decades not see Pano and do such a bad positioning on a hip xray?
Should have lost their license to practice(how many other dogs did they do this to?) And then tried to cover up their negligence, and would not even answer my questions about the positioning or diagnosis.

Trusting vets is something I seldom do anymore, I do my own research and try to be proactive.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> i also had a vet for almost 30 years. They misdiagnosed one of my dogs at 6 months of age as having "severe hip dysplasia" when it was only panosteitis....how can a vet who has been practicing for decades not see pano and do such a bad positioning on a hip xray?
> Should have lost their license to practice(how many other dogs did they do this to?) and then tried to cover up their negligence, and would not even answer my questions about the positioning or diagnosis.
> 
> Trusting vets is something i seldom do anymore, i do my own research and try to be proactive.


omfg


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## Ashley_M (Feb 19, 2003)

Saphire said:


> omfg


My thought exactly.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cpearson31 said:


> I take her back to the vet on the 5th of feb.... I am hoping that by that time she has grown hopefully double (maybe triple) her weight now. I will be starting her on a blue buffalo tonight... easing into it that is. After doing more research... she is still way to small for her age... 3-5 pounds...
> 
> when I take her back I will tell them that I do not need or want any shots for her. I will have to read up on it Dr. Dodds.... ive always been told they HAVE to have their shots. they said he has to have shots every 3 weeks up until she is 18 weeks old.. seems like a lot to me.
> 
> ...


She is small. My boy was 12# at 8 weeks. 

She DOES need her shots. The typical timing for shots is 8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks. You do not need them every 3 weeks. My vets have never done that and you only need them till 16 weeks. The series is to hit a window where the mother's immunity wears off. 

If you think she's 6 weeks then I would do another set at 10 weeks and a third at 14. Under Dr. Dodd's newest protocal, she says 1 shot at 10 weeks and another at 14 or to titer.

if you want to feed raw, I would advise a commercial food for a growing puppy. I fed Seger Bravo Balance for the first 9 months. It's easy tocontrol portions and it's balanced so no worries of any deficiencies.


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## kay88 (May 27, 2013)

Saphire said:


> You've been given some solid advice here by people who care and want your puppy to thrive. You learning and helping your puppy thrive is what keeps these people here helping the next person. The advice being given is solid and comes from a great deal of experience. I sincerely hope you read thoroughly and research. Don't be led blindly by your vet, they Do make mistakes, some that can be costly to your puppy.
> I too have a vet I'd had for 20+ years and as I evolve into a more educated pet owner I have challenged some of his views. We have agreed to disagree at times but I always do what I want for my dog..not always what the vet wants. They can be pushy. The only way for you to have good discussions with your vet is to become educated.



I totally agree...some vets are great...some are pushy..but at the end of the day we need to be advocates for our pets and not assume that they ALWAYS know what is best....and a good vet (IMO) doesn't mind people who ask questions...


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