# Tibetan Mastiff for Schutzhund/IPO?



## Bullion (Aug 4, 2016)

It's hard to find information on this breed but I've recently been offered a chance at getting a Tibetan Mastiff puppy and I'm wondering if these dogs can excel in Schutzhund/IPO. 

I hadn't heard much about the breed, when I heard Mastiff I was thinking something else but when I saw them I was really blown away. The parents are absolutely stunning, they could easily pass as mythological creatures from ancient Greece - they look like some cross between a bear and a lion. Anyone here know anything about them?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Certainly not my field but Schutzhund/IPO ... I would not think so?? I'm sure someone will explain why. But PPD well yeah ... with the "proper training from a really, really good pro. So yeah .... certainly not a good choice for a first time dog owner ... have you seen Gus??:






,
And dogs of Molosser World the usual suspects. Long fur, short fur, dogs, tall and short. There are a couple of CC owners on here ... but yeah those guys are not as "furry" as a TB. 
Molossers breeds (Molosser dogs, Molossers, Mastiff breeds)


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## telavivgsd (Jul 6, 2016)

Not sure if this is in any way useful to you, but I remembered seeing one on here the other day: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/660993-one-huge-dog.html


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Bullion said:


> It's hard to find information on this breed but I've recently been offered a chance at getting a Tibetan Mastiff puppy and I'm wondering if these dogs can excel in Schutzhund/IPO.
> 
> I hadn't heard much about the breed, when I heard Mastiff I was thinking something else but when I saw them I was really blown away. The parents are absolutely stunning, they could easily pass as mythological creatures from ancient Greece - they look like some cross between a bear and a lion. Anyone here know anything about them?


Think of it this way, if they had what it took, I would think there would be people working them on the field. Every breed has certain things they excel at. I wouldn't try herding with a bull terrier for instance. TMs are impressive animals....I don't know much about them, but I would not get one unless I have a huge farm for them to roam.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Bullion said:


> It's hard to find information on this breed but I've recently been offered a chance at getting a Tibetan Mastiff puppy and I'm wondering if these dogs can excel in Schutzhund/IPO.
> 
> I hadn't heard much about the breed, when I heard Mastiff I was thinking something else but when I saw them I was really blown away. The parents are absolutely stunning, they could easily pass as mythological creatures from ancient Greece - they look like some cross between a bear and a lion. Anyone here know anything about them?


No they can't. Something else to consider is your abilities. Have you trained any dogs in IPO? I'm having a hard time believing you have or you wouldn't be asking this question. You better find out how much goes into working with a good dog before you move into goofy. 

The other part to consider is, who's going to waste their time helping you? If you like mastiffs, have a mastiff. If you want to do something like IPO, get a dog that fits.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

If you're actually going to do IPO, then no. If you just want a big dog for protection, then it's certainly capable for that (but will take some training like 99% of dogs).
Don't just get a dog because it's available, get a dog for your specific needs.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

If you want to do /IPO/schutzhund - get a GSD (or ****maybe***** a mali).....get a dog who is bred for it...otherwise you are beating yourself up, frustrating youself, your helper, your fellow training people, and the dog.....and wasting alot of resources that could be used to bring along a dog who will do well in the sport....have seen people with off breeds, poor candidates for the sport (even GSDs) and the amount of time spent on one animal with poor potential could be used to advance a couple who have what it takes....it starts off as a novelty - but ends up being frustrating to everyone involved IMO


Lee


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## Bullion (Aug 4, 2016)

I want to get into IPO training, I haven't before but I've been looking into the sport for awhile. I am very interested in this breed now so I just wanted to see if it would be good for the sport or if I will still need to hold off on getting involved in dog sport


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Bullion said:


> I want to get into IPO training, I haven't before but I've been looking into the sport for awhile. I am very interested in this breed now so I just wanted to see if it would be good for the sport or if I will still need to hold off on getting involved in dog sport


Well ... unlike some ... I luv the "Dogs of Mosseler World!" But by and large the only there that is "successful in" Schutzhund/IPO Training ... would be a "Euro Boxer" in as much as that is what they do in "Europe!" 

That said if I were to get into that field "I'd" go with an "American Line "Boxer American Boxer" as "I'd" not want the "100 %" Goofiness diluted with the "right stuff!" For me it would be all about having fun! Heck on "BoxerForum" the "debate" tends to be about if the "Euros" are as "Goofy" as the "Euros" dogs! 

That said ... if your entend is for a "Serious IPO/Schutzhund "candidate??" Sorry you have to go with the numbers. And that would be a GSD/Mal/Dutchie/Mal/GSD cross. Numbers don't lie.

For "PPD" work ... the fields a bit broader. For that the field is a lot broader and many "Molossers" can/could excel at that. But ... a high threshold for "pain/crap" can be "problematic??" 

It can take a lot to "impress" some of them?? A yeah ...you call that a threat?? Not interested kind of thing. 

By and large with any of those guys (Molosser's) "Breed Characteristics" such as these are what your going to looking at. 

Dr. P's Dog Training: Belgian Malinois vs. American Pit Bull Terrier

I'm not saying a Schutzhund/IPO "TM" can't be done?? But "numbers" would suggest ... that it's not too likely??? An "American Band Dawg or a "Dogo Argentina" would put in the ballpark but you know not as "furry" and stuff."


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I love my cousin in law's mastiff. Nicest dog ever. But he would never do the sport. Think about the 3 phases.

1. Tracking - TM's are not bred for hunt drive. They are not going to put their heads down and track footstep to footstep.
2. Obedience - Are you really willing to send a 160# dog over a meter jump? Over the wall? Does the dog ahve the drive to do the obedience?
3. Protection - I'm sure this is the phase you were thinking of. It's the phase everyone thinks of as soon as IPO is said. You might be able to get the dog to bite. They are a guardian breed. But in what drive? Can the dog switch between prey and aggression?

I find it incredibly sad to watch a dog forced into a sport that is contrary to its true nature. Like Steve said above...if you want to do IPO, get a dog suitable for the sport. GSDs are the best. Mals will work but in a different way. Rott's and Dobe's are out there doing it as well. I've seen pictures of some Boxer's but never in person and a friend has a Cane Corso that she struggles with in the sport because the proper drives aren't there for protection.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

No..


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## Bullion (Aug 4, 2016)

I appreciate the feedback. I don't know much about the breed at all, there doesn't seem to be much out there about them beyond the Wikipedia page. I guess I was just fascinated by the dogs when I saw them and since I've been wanting to do IPO I had to ask if they would be suitable. Now I must decide how much I really want to do IPO before I make my choice. It is a dream of mine to work with a dog on this but maybe I can put that off


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

In the beginning Schutzhund was designed to help evaluate GSD for breed worthiness.
It tested the dogs bidability , tracking / hunt , prey and defense (protection) .
It is suitable for similar herding breeds , malinois , and Dutch shepherd .

No Tibetan, no Golden retrievers . They shouldn't act like , or be asked to perform like GSD.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

carmspack said:


> In the beginning Schutzhund was designed to help evaluate GSD for breed worthiness.
> It tested the dogs bidability , tracking / hunt , prey and defense (protection) .
> It is suitable for similar herding breeds , malinois , and Dutch shepherd .
> 
> No Tibetan, no Golden retrievers . They shouldn't act like , or be asked to perform like GSD.


I'm trying to visualize a mastiff running across the field for the long bite. The bad guy will have plenty of time to escape.

That said, breeds other than the GSD have done well in the sport. To add to the above list, I would include Rots and Dobes. Working, but not herding breeds, they occasionally succeed in IPO.

If you want to do a dog sport, get the right dog! Go to a breeder who is active in your sport ad clearly understands it. Not a breeder who buys their dog's already titled. Look for HOT dogs--handler owned and trained.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> If you want to do /IPO/schutzhund - get a GSD (or ****maybe***** a mali).....get a dog who is bred for it...otherwise you are beating yourself up, frustrating youself, your helper, your fellow training people, and the dog.....and wasting alot of resources that could be used to bring along a dog who will do well in the sport....have seen people with off breeds, poor candidates for the sport (even GSDs) and the amount of time spent on one animal with poor potential could be used to advance a couple who have what it takes....it starts off as a novelty - but ends up being frustrating to everyone involved IMO
> 
> 
> Lee


FWIW, a Mal is definitely a good choice for IPO, but I would caution the OP that this is not the ideal breed for an inexperienced owner.

Mals tend to be very high energy and high drive--they need a lot of management. Not often great house dogs, though I have seen it done with training.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I found the most enjoyment in dog sports that the dogs are wired for and that they enjoy. With my GSD I am not going into lure coursing. I didn't force my sight hounds into obedience. It is all about respecting their wiring and drives.


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

OP, IPO is a European dog sport (specifically German) and as such is geared towards the European working dogs, such as GSD's, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, Rottweiler, Dobermans, Bouvier des Flandres (if you kind find good working examples of the latter 3).

Tibetan Mastiffs were traditionally bred as guardian dogs, for both livestock and residences. Today, the dog has gained a great amount of popularity in China and elsewhere, and as such has started to become somewhat of a designer dog and status symbol fetching exorbitantly high prices. There was an article a little while back about a Tibetan Mastiff going for $2 Million to some overeager owner: World?s most expensive dog? Tibetan mastiff sells for $2 million - NY Daily News

I've heard LGD and Molosser fanciers say that there are still working versions of the Tibetan Mastiff, including some that still guard livestock, but that the breed overall has shifted away from its original purpose and that the health and temperament standards have been compromised due to increased buyer demand...sound familiar to anyone?

If you want to do IPO, and do it well, you're best bet is to get a herding-style dog, from working lines. Trying to train a Tibetan in IPO is basically trying to fit a square peg into a round hole: it likely won't be engaged in the tracking; its obedience won't be anything special; its protection work might be decent (depending on the breeding) but won't necessarily line up with the judges' expectations. 

If you want to do personal protection training, a Tibetan may work in that role, but again you'll need to make sure you get one from good working lines, with good health....and I've no idea what breeders are asking for these dogs, given the high demand for the breed.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> OP, IPO is a European dog sport (specifically German) and as such is geared towards the European working dogs, such as GSD's, Malinois, Dutch Shepherds, Rottweiler, Dobermans, Bouvier des Flandres (if you kind find good working examples of the latter 3).


Well ... we're "offended." :crying:

Show & Working Dog Titles


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Well ... we're "offended." :crying:
> 
> Show & Working Dog Titles


Well I did say "geared towards" and not exclusive to. I know there are other breeds used for those activities, but that certainly isn't the norm.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> Well I did say "geared towards" and not exclusive to. I know there are other breeds used for those activities, but that certainly isn't the norm.


Aww ...no sweat man ... just having fun.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bullion said:


> I want to get into IPO training, I haven't before but I've been looking into the sport for awhile. I am very interested in this breed now so I just wanted to see if it would be good for the sport or if I will still need to hold off on getting involved in dog sport


You can MAKE any dog do anything, but that should not be your goal. I have said it before and I will say it again. For a beginner handler there is NO breed better then a GSD. You can't "break" them. They are intelligent, handler oriented dogs with a massive capacity for forgiveness. Rookie handlers are going to make mistakes and with a good GSD you can go back and fix it. They will always be willing to shrug it off and try again. Plus they have the looks and charisma to carry the day, even if you are a bit over your head. 
If you want a TB, find something they are good at and do that. Research the breed, decide if there is anything beyond looks that makes them a good fit for your life and go from there.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

There are dogs or "combinations" of those dogs that could put in the "Ballpark" quite easily ... but a "TM" would be at the bottom of that group. It is just not what they do. If you are serious about the "Schutzhund/IPO" then you need to "make better choices." 

First time out ... go with what works, then if you want to be different?? Go with a Dogo or an American Band dog. "Different" but in the ballpark! And if big and furry is a requirement then ... maybe an OS, Longhaired GSD???


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## Dalko43 (Mar 30, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Aww ...no sweat man ... just having fun.


I figured you were. But I don't mind clarifying either....it's not unheard of for people to use nontraditional breeds for certain dog sports, like IPO. Weren't there some threads here a while back on someone titling a Poodle?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Dalko43 said:


> I figured you were. But I don't mind clarifying either....it's not unheard of for people to use nontraditional breeds for certain dog sports, like IPO. Weren't there some threads here a while back on someone titling a Poodle?


I don't remember the Poodle but I do remeber this guy. :


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