# "Revenge pee" & problems housebreaking



## marinelle (Apr 22, 2012)

Nala is 5 and a half months old now, and she's still not housebroken. I have a suspicion it's because we trained her to go on newspaper since she was a pup since we couldn't take her out in the middle of the night. I put her in her pen at around 10-11 PM, and I take her out in the morning at 6. She usually pees once or twice on the newspaper, and she poops outdoors unless we're late taking her out. We have tried to crate her and take her out when she wakes up from her nap, but at around 4 months whenever we crated her she would do what we have called "revenge pee"...all over her blankets and toys in the crate. When we put her back in her dog pen (the crate is open in the pen) she goes to her newspaper and revenge pees. This is especially frustrating since we spend so much time outdoors and she'll do this right when we get inside and lock her in the pen. When we go outside she plays and romps and sniffs everywhere...but it's a miracle when she pees. Should I remove the newspaper? Take her out more often than I already do (before she gets put in her pen and after she wakes up, after she eats/drinks, at least every hour...) How do I get her to quit peeing in her crate? Crate training worked wonders for about a month and a half. I'm trying to be as patient as I can. 

Does anyone have experience with house training bells?


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Remove the newspaper. Take her out to the designated spot, give her the cue word, and stand still, no playing etc. When she goes, praise her. If she isn't sleeping all night yet and using the paper, you will need to wake up and take her during the night as well. 

This will be a HARD habit to break with her. Wash everything with the cleaners you can find at pet stores to get rid of the scent.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's not "revenge pee". you trained her to pee inside. Now you'll need to completely retrain her.  

You'll have to thoroughly clean the crate with an enzyme cleaner to get rid of the smell and you'll have to treat her like an 8 week old puppy and take her out every couple of hours and 15 minutes after she eats.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Start restricting water to certain times. An hour or so after you give food/water, make sure you take her out and wait as long as it takes for her to go. When she goes, praise and treat. Take her back inside. No playtime, toys etc. Keep repeating this until she gets the idea. 

Remove the newspapers. And yes, using fake grass or potty pads inside has been known to extend the time it takes to housebreak so you're at a bit of a disadvantage. 

The dog isn't being vengeful or spiteful. She learned to do something one way and she's confused as to what you are trying to have to do now. You need to be very clear in your training and give her the benefit of the doubt. Retrain her all over again to potty outside. Watch her like a hawk. When she starts her potty behaviors like circling, sniffing the ground, keeping her hind close to the ground, whining, barking, looking at you or the door, immediately take her outside and WAIT for as long as it takes for her pee. Make sure she is on leash and you can make sure she goes. You mentioned that she "plays and romps" outside when you let her out. Do not allow her off-lead when you want her to pee. Keep her on lead, take her out to a certain pee spot each and every time. Wait, remain completely neutral and when she goes, praise her with enthusiasm and take her back inside. Potty breaks are only for potty and initially, you will have to wait quite a bit. I remember waiting up to a half hour for Wiva to go in the freezing cold. But that type of persistence pays off and I had Wiva potty trained within a week.

Invest in some good enzymatic cleaners so you can rid your home of any trace urine or fecal smell. I like Nature's Miracle, Bissel and Simple Solution.


----------



## marinelle (Apr 22, 2012)

Alright, I removed the newspapers and completely cleaned everything, and she has peed outside a couple of times correctly. But as soon as I put her back in her crate, she pees a little more. It's like she doesn't pee everything outside. Should I just not put her in the crate anymore? When the crate is closed and I put her in her pen for a sec, I turn around and she pees on her towel. It's getting a bit frustrating because I don't know how to communicate to her that she's supposed to go outside. She gets so distracted outside on the leash and when she goes indoors, she pees. Should I just keep standing outside with her longer? Thank you for all of your input, you guys are lifesavers. :crazy:


----------



## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Is she submissive peeing when she's in the crate? Does she like her crate or is she afraid of it?


----------



## marinelle (Apr 22, 2012)

She likes her crate. She'll go to it and she stopped sleeping in it after she soiled it. I removed the bed that was there and she continues to pee in it and then get out of the crate and sleep on the tile.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Remove all towels and bedding!


----------



## marinelle (Apr 22, 2012)

Everything is bare. She pees on the bare tray of her crate. I also forgot to mention she poops outside, and I can't remember the last time she pooped inside. Can she physically hold her pee for 2 to 3 hours at this age?


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

At 5+ months old she should be able to hold it most (if not all) of the night, providing you give her a potty break right before you go to bed and immediately after you wake up in the morning. 

I think the problem is that by A) teaching her to potty on papers and then B) putting papers in her crate, you have taught her that it is okay to potty in the crate. She has transferred the potty privilege from the papers you started her with to the blankets/bedding you included with the paper in her crate and to the crate itself. 

It sounded to me as if you have her crate in an x-pen enclosure, with the crate door left open so she can come and go from it within the confines of the x-pen area? She really sounds like a dog that has been conditioned to use the crate as a bathroom (at least for urine). She can potty in the crate and then sleep and play in the x-pen area outside of the crate. It works for her!
Sheilah


----------



## Ilovemypuppies (Jan 2, 2012)

So I'm no expert! But what I would try is take the newspaper outside. I don't know if she know she is suppose to go outside. If you take the newspaper outside then maybe she will figure it out. I don't know about the crate though:/


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

There is something else going on.

The fact you are calling it 'revenge peeing' is a huge issue and a block to fixing this. Because as long as you feel she's being spiteful (and she's not) there's no reason to be calm and understanding and figure out what's really going on.

It's not revenge peeing.

I do know that having to clean/wash things all the time will add to the frustration. So I would leave her in a bare crate while figuring this out. 

PLUS I'm with the others, you did a great job TEACHING her to pee in the house. You TAUGHT her peeing in the house was great!!!! :thumbup: 

Suddenly, you've changed the game. So what you taught your clever girl, and what she was doing well, peeing on pape is now 'bad dog' when it was 'good dog' so you wonder why there is some confusion?

Have you heard about submissive and excitement urination? One of my GSD's had (has?) the condition. Gets WAY better as they get older and WE learn how to manage it the right way. They 100% have zero control over it but we can manage them better


----------



## marinelle (Apr 22, 2012)

Alright, so now that I taught her to pee inside, should I totally remove the crate? Move the pen?


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm thinking, you need to go back to total basics. As if she is 10 weeks old.

I might consider removing the crate for now. Are you SURE you've properly cleaned the crate? As in, using the enzyme cleaners and not your basic household cleaners?

So when she does the deed, are you right there? You need to be. You need to catch her in the act. This is truly paramount! She sounds confused, going between papers and such. If she is *not* peeing in the expen area, but only in the crate, I would ditch the crate for now. She seems too conditioned to peeing in there.

Oh - ETA - forget this revenge idea thing. Dogs just aren't capable of that level of complex thinking -- especially a puppy. They don't "reason" like that. She's just confused, nothing more than that.


----------



## Sir Bear (Mar 9, 2012)

You say she's not peeing everything and always seems to have some extra pee left; you may want to check with a vet just to be 100% sure there aren't any bladder infection issues. 

I would start using the crate as the only means of confinement (no xpen) until she starts to learn. Stop water 2 hours before bed, wait until she pees outside (yep...that may mean waiting a ridiculous amount of time outside for the next couple weeks). Put her in her crate right after and wake up any time she stirs in the night and take her out. If she doesn't go outside, crate for 20 more minutes and then take her out again. Treat and throw a happy party when she does go outside and don't be angry if she goes inside...even negative attention is reinforcing for pups. 

That's what worked for me...maybe not the best idea to use potty pads but it's nothing you can't fix! Good luck!


----------



## laniefly (May 25, 2012)

Hi marinelle I feel your pain. This is what my husband and I did for our 4.5 month old to teach her to ring a bell when she needed to go out.

We got her @ 7 weeks and for the 1st month I thought she would never get potty trained trained. She gave no indication before she had to go...not a whimper, a cry, circling around...NOTHING. She just went anywhere and everywhere. She did it in her crate on her blankets everything. So one day in complete fustration I told my husband we had to do something. The crate wasnt working at all.

1st I got this stuff called EWWW enzyme spray by bissell at petsmart. It works very well..as does white vinegar and HOT water. I mixed 1/2 white vinegar 1/2 hot water in a spray bottle. Saturated the area on the carpet put a hot towel on top and let it sit for about 30 minutes then shampooed it with my shampooer. You might have do it twice if it was a big area. There was one spot she went in that smelled and nothing I tried worked. The white vingar stinks when it is sitting, but it neutralizes the odor.

2nd we hung a cow bell from the sliding door handle. My husband was off work for 3 days and I took off for the next 2 after that. I set a timer and every 15 minutes she went outside. Before exiting, we hit her paw on the bell and said "good girl". When she peed, she got a pupperoni treat. No pee=no treat. We did this like I said every 15 min all day long and followed her around like a hawk. If she even sniffed something, she was outside. We also took her about 1o - 15 min after every meal as well. The timer helped remind me when to go. The main thing is we were consistant with making her paw hit the bell before exiting the door. 

By day 3 she was doing it on her own and we gave lot and lots of praise. She did great until about 3 weeks later then started having accidents on the carpet again. A few days later she became really sick vet said it was a bad UTI. I agree a 5 month old should be able to hold its bladder though the night. You might want to get her checked out just to see. Luna goes out then lays down about 10pm and sleeps until 6 am before needing to go again.

Good luck! I have a video of the bell ringing. I will try to upload it soon. Good luck I know how fustrating it can be.


----------

