# Sample menu. Is this ok?



## SaraP (Jun 4, 2012)

I want my dog to weigh 70 pounds. 2% of that is 1.4 pounds or 22.4 ounces. 
Here is a the menu: Monday-3 oz beef liver. 10 oz ground turkey breast, 1 ounce raw egg. PM-1 once veggie, 7 ounces chicken breast, 1 ounce chicken quarters. 

And so on in that manner. 

I'm still confused about bone. How often should she be eating it?


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## Minoli (Jul 19, 2011)

How old is she? What does she weigh now? 

I don't feed veggies, and he gets an egg 2-3 days a week. 

Leo is just over 14 months old, and very thin and active. He's 65-66 lbs. I feed him ~3 lbs a day. 

He eats MM in the morning, RMB at night. He gets OM just about daily, usually either at breakfast or dinner. 

He also gets Grizzly Salmon Oil every meal, and Vitamin E once a day (if I feed an egg this day, then he doesn't get Vit E).


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## Madjukes (Jul 1, 2012)

It doesn't really matter how you divide it during the day, or even week, as long as he gets the general proportions right. Think about it this way- none of your meals are completely nutritionally balanced- this happens over the long haul, like a week or so.


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Based on your sample menu, you give only 1 ounce RMB (chicken quarters) RMBs should be anywhere between 45-50% of their daily food. You need to up the RMBs significantly!

I have a dog that I want to be 75 lbs. Here is her breakdown per day. I switch up the source each day as you see in parentheses:

12 oz RMBs (chicken thighs, chicken quarters, turkey necks, duck necks, pork necks)
6 oz MM (ground turkey, ground beef, ground pork, ground chicken)
2 oz raw green tripe
1 egg
1/4 cup veggie mix (I use Honest Kitchen Preference)
1.5 oz OM (chicken/pork/beef/lamb kidney and liver)


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

You don't get to decide how much your dog is going to weigh at maturity. That is decided mainly by genetics, but also by nutrition and other environmental factors. You don't feed a dog based on the weight you want her to be.

I really, really, REALLY think you should be feeding kibble until you study and learn more about canine nutrition. You may have already affected her growth by underfeeding, and not giving enough protein and calcium--so she may not reach her full genetic potential for size.

Your "sample diet" still contains too little bone, and overall not enough nutrition or calories. How do you figure you're going to get *one* ounce of chicken quarters?? If your chicken quarter weighs about a pound, you're going to split it up into 16 little pieces?

Dogs need PROTEIN and FAT. I'd feed a growing pup AT LEAST 2 chicken quarters a day. Chicken/turkey breast is okay, but does not contain much fat, and shouldn't be fed ground up without the bone in it.

Remember, dogs are not humans. They NEED animal fat and cholesterol, and plenty of it, especially while growing.


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## SaraP (Jun 4, 2012)

Really, Freestep? Because I've continuously asked for help around here and very few people have actually helped or supplied resources for me to do research.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not sure how much more help you expect than what you are getting. The forum section for BARF has a whole lot of sticky threads at the top of the forum section on feeding BARF. There are dozens of books on natural diets for dogs, or raw diets etc.

Go to top of page. Click on hyperlink for Forums. You will see the organized by group. Go to the one you have posted in for BARF and look at all the threads at the top that say sticky. Tons of stuff there.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

SaraP said:


> I'm still confused about bone. How often should she be eating it?


Could be every day or every few days. There is no hard and fast rules but definitely some. Mine gets some bones on most days.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

SaraP said:


> Really, Freestep? Because I've continuously asked for help around here and very few people have actually helped or supplied resources for me to do research.


Yes, REALLY, Sara. You have only been here a few days and lots of people have provided help and tips, websites to look at, books to read, etc. You need to READ and STUDY canine nutrition, as it's clear you still don't understand what dogs need in their diet. 

In the meantime, please do your puppy a favor, and buy her some premium kibble while you read and study canine nutrition. It's not rocket science, but there are some important principles you need to understand and until you do, don't feed your puppy based on what you know about HUMAN nutrition.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off rudely, but I am really concerned that you are doing harm to your puppy, and your puppy has no way to tell you that she's not getting what she needs. You remind me of someone I know who fed her cats vegetarian because *she* was a vegetarian, and had no regard for what a cat needs in its diet. The cats grew up blind and suffered all kinds of growth, metabolic, and neurological problems, which she thought was due to "inbreeding". She meant no harm, but it was cruelty due to ignorance and her own stubborn refusal to learn about the needs of a creature under her care... Cats are NOT humans and they NEED meat. She refused to believe this, and those innocent kittens paid the price for her ignorance.

Dogs are not humans either, and you cannot assume you know what is best for them unless you actually LEARN what their needs are. Ask a veterinarian if you don't believe me. Most vets are against raw feeding anyway, but any good vet will tell you that dogs need animal protein and fat to thrive. Sure, they can survive without meat and bone, but they will not *thrive*. To put it in human terms, it's like feeding a human child grass and leaves. We cannot digest these items very well and we will not grow and thrive on such a diet, though it's a superb diet for goats.

Just make it easy on yourself and your puppy, and feed her some good kibble formulated for puppies. The companies that make premium dog food spend a lot of time and money studying canine nutrition; it's ALL they do, and they know more than you or I. 

I am not normally one to advocate kibble over raw, but in this situation, I feel it's very important that your pup gets what she needs before it's too late.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

It doesn't look like you're giving enough bone. I find it easier to use the 10% bone method (because RMBs vary greatly in how much bone they actually have)and weigh the bone of the item I'm feeding to determine how much it weighs. For instance, for bone I usually feed chicken necks, so the first time I took the meat off the bone and weighed three different bones and took the average. I do this for each new RMB I feed, only once, and keep track of it for future use. I feed however much it takes to get 10% bone in there and then add the organ and the rest is muscle meat.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I would feed raw if I knew more but I don't. I will be the first to admit that. And I don't live in an area where these products are available. Plus, I don't have the freezer space and I think I see that buying in bulk is the key to keep costs down. You need to get off your high horse and listen to what these people are trying to tell you. They are not trying to cut you down; they are trying to make you realize that until you know what you are doing with raw, in the mean time you are doing your puppy more harm then good. Growing puppies needs certain nutrients to be healthy and he/she is not getting it while you are getting upset when people are pointing out to you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree, you have gotten ALOT of good advice, I'm not sure why your so 'against' feeding a premium kibble UNTIL you can research feeding a balanced RAW diet. 

Didn't you say you were a human nutritionist? or studying to be one? Well it takes some studying and research to feed a dog RAW as well. 

You've gotten ALOT of good advice AND examples of what others feed, as one poster pointed out there are tons of good information in the BARF section of this forum


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## Minoli (Jul 19, 2011)

Everyone's here looking out for the best interest of you and your puppy. We all had to do research at some point, just as you need to now. 

Do your research and it'll pay off. As others have already said, it would be best for you to wait to switch to raw until you have researched the diet and have a better understanding. 

This site is very informative, and she's a member on here: Raw Feeding


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

And why not buy a commercially prepared raw balanced diet. That would work too. There are several different brands as well. Or go with kibble and raw, feeding kibble for one meal and raw for the next meal. Some say it is not good to do both, but I have and have not found a reason not to.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

I don't follow any particular percentage as far as bone/meat ratio. I go by dogs poops. If poops are too hard and the dog is straining a bit, feed less bone. If poops are too soft, I feed more bone. I don't get hung up on the numbers because with a raw diet, it is what is feed over a period of time, like a week, as opposed to having a perfectly "balanced" meal 2x a day. Some people don't feed bone every day, I do feed bone every day, it works best for my dogs. Once your dog is adjusted to one protein and doing well, rotate proteins throughout the week.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Freestep said:


> You don't get to decide how much your dog is going to weigh at maturity. That is decided mainly by genetics, but also by nutrition and other environmental factors. You don't feed a dog based on the weight you want her to be.
> 
> I really, really, REALLY think you should be feeding kibble until you study and learn more about canine nutrition. You may have already affected her growth by underfeeding, and not giving enough protein and calcium--so she may not reach her full genetic potential for size.
> 
> ...


If the dog is underweight and she wants to up her dogs weight to 70lbs, then yes, she can decide how much she wants her dog to weigh.

I'm hoping it was just a typo, and that she meant for the chicken breast to b 1oz, not the leg quarter.

If she is just starting this dog on a diet, she should stick to one protein source for now. And there is nothing wrong with feeding ground meat without bone. I wouldn't be adding in fat if the dog is new to raw (which it basically is, I would start this dog as a blank slate given the previous diet she had it on). Some people have to de-skin their chicken at first because the dog is sensitive to the fats at first and get loose stools.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Yes, REALLY, Sara. You have only been here a few days and lots of people have provided help and tips, websites to look at, books to read, etc. You need to READ and STUDY canine nutrition, as it's clear you still don't understand what dogs need in their diet.
> 
> In the meantime, please do your puppy a favor, and buy her some premium kibble while you read and study canine nutrition. It's not rocket science, but there are some important principles you need to understand and until you do, don't feed your puppy based on what you know about HUMAN nutrition.
> 
> ...


I wish you lived in my area - we could use a neighbor like you with a strong, fearless, common sense voice.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

SaraP said:


> I want my dog to weigh 70 pounds.


Is that a good weight for her? How much does she weigh now?



> 2% of that is 1.4 pounds or 22.4 ounces.


How active is she? 2% is a little low for most young adult GSDs.



> Here is a the menu: Monday-3 oz beef liver. 10 oz ground turkey breast, 1 ounce raw egg. PM-1 once veggie, 7 ounces chicken breast, 1 ounce chicken quarters.


Are you trying to follow some type of formula? It's not a plan I would recommend. Here's what I follow:

5% Organ Meat (liver, kidney, etc)
45% Raw Meaty Bones (any meat with edible bone - chicken legs, necks, wings, back, quarters, rabbit legs, etc)
50% Muscle Meat (any meat WITHOUT bone - beef or pork heart, chicken breast, etc.)

I don't feed fruits or veggies on a regular basis but I do give a raw egg a couple times a week. I count that weight as muscle meat.

I feed green tripe when I have it - also count it as muscle meat.



> I'm still confused about bone. How often should she be eating it?


She should be getting EDIBLE bones every day.


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

SaraP said:


> Really, Freestep? Because I've continuously asked for help around here and very few people have actually helped or supplied resources for me to do research.


sara, everyone here is trying to help you. go read you other threads, you've gotten very good advices. however, you kept on coming up with the "veggies" which many people already said is not necessary.
on your other thread, i said substitute the "veggies" with "green tripe" but you kept on insisting on the veggies.

there's plenty of information on this forum "BARF" to learn about raw feeding, learn how to use the "search" function and you will come up with a ton of info. that was what i did when i started. i started feeding raw 2 months ago and the only questions i asked was about the supplements and about my dog not eating. If you'll take the time to read, follow advices and use the "SEARCH" function, you'll get it in no time. Just keep an open mind.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Sara, I commend you for seeking out advice on how to feed your dog! So many people don't care enough to do what you are doing. 99.99% of dog owners will go to the grocery store and buy the biggest bag of Dog Chow (or other generic kibble) they can afford with out even considering whether they are doing the right thing for their pets. So in that respect, you are miles ahead just by caring enough to seek advice.

As for what to feed, it may take some time for you to work that out. I fed high quality kibble for over a year substituting some occasional raw until I worked out what to feed and where to buy food. There is no need to rush it. Go to a quality specialty pet store and buy some premium kibble or pre-made raw. Your dog will thank you while you wrap your mind around what is the right thing to feed your dog.

Good luck!


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## jourdan (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm going to ask here since it seems like everyone so far has been giving good advice.

I cannot for the life of me find green tripe here in germany. I've only been looking a week and I know it might take time or I might never find it. Today at lunch I finely shredded a couple of carrots and finely chopped a couple of mushrooms, cracked and egg and broke down its shell and mixed it all with some ground beef.

Would that be a good way to add the veggies to his diet since we cannot find the tripe? He is also not going after the chicken bones, so would it be good to keep our egg shells that we use and continue adding them to the mix as a source of calcium? I'm looking into a group to co-op over here since my butcher will only sell turkey necks in 20 kilo (44 lbs) portions, and well my little European fridge cannot hold that much.

He gets about 3 pounds of meat a day since he is 8 months old (70lbs) and still needs about 20 pounds of weight easily. I feed him, ground beef, chicken breast, and turkey breast. He gets beef tips as well, when the butcher has it on sale for 3euro a kilo, I stock up. We've been feeding RAW for a week and he loves it so far. 

All advice is good and I appreciate all positive and negative feed back you guys have to offer. I want to make sure I am giving my guy the best option for food out there so he can live a long, happy, healthy life.


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

I wrote a facebook note on raw feeding... if you can't view it let me know and I'll copy/paste it here.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/nicki-simonson/raw-prey-model-diet/437610758104

Here is the section where I post my sample menu:


> A typical week looks like this:
> 
> Monday: morning – chicken. Evening – pork, sardines
> Tuesday: morning – chicken. Evening – beef, beef liver
> ...


When I say "chicken" I mean a chicken leg quarter (with kidneys). Whole quarters, not cut up, not weighed and carefully trimmed to be EXACTLY the correct weight, down to the ounce. Just a chicken leg quarter, straight out of the bag. If it is super small, I'll give two. I do weigh it to determine approximately how much red meat to give for the evening meal, but I don't sweat it if they get an ounce or two more or less each day.

As far as the red meat, usually the beef is boneless and the pork contains bone. Sometimes that varies, but usually that's what they end up getting.

As others have said, it's very important for puppies to get the proper nutrition so if you are unsure, it's best to stick with a good kibble. Give a raw meal once a week or so until you get comfortable with it.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

Honestly, right now, i'd just start the dog on chicken leg quarters for a week. Take it slow. Feed your dog 3% of what the healthy goal weight is in leg quarters. If your dog is prone to stomach upsets, take the skin and organs off. See how this goes before jumping into any set menu. It is not uncommon for people to hold off on other proteins and organ meats for weeks at a time when transitioning. Your dog will be better off taking it slow, that way if something goes wrong (loose stools, itching for example) you can pin point exactly what food triggered it and take that out of your dogs diet or reduce the amount/frequency if needed.


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