# Suggestions on how to pick a puppy



## Jaesthetic (Apr 7, 2016)

Hello,
I'm currently visiting family in California for the summer and won't be back on the east coast until late August/early September. The breeder I'm talking to right now has some puppies available now and he says that if I want, puppy choosing can happen now and I could just pick her up when I get back on the east coast. Does anyone have suggestions on how to pick a puppy from a litter I've never met or seen? I will be relying a lot on the breeder's suggestion, but does anyone have any pointers? 
Thanks!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If you trust the breeder than I would let them chose. They are around the pups and can tell their personalities, drive levels, temperament, etc where you won't be able to tell much from a distance. If there are two pups that are very similar than the breeder could give you an option, but I would not try to pick a puppy from a litter you have never seen.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I told my breeder about my lifestyle, what I wanted to do with the dog and what I absolutely didn't want to deal with. She chose a litter and a puppy to suit me. 

Lisa above ^^^^ Explained why from a breeder's perspective  I will always let a breeder pick for me.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I have learned over the years to let my breeders choose my pups, and they have usually been right on!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I seriously doubt the quality of breeder and pups who will tell you to pick out a puppy (how??? from photos??) now that won't be ready to go for at least a month?????? 

Really knowledgable breeders usually allocate pups to buyers based on conversations with the buyer and weeks of observation of the pups....sometimes I don't decide what pup is going where until a few days before they are ready to go home!


Lee


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## Jaesthetic (Apr 7, 2016)

Oh, sorry, just for clarification, before we even discussed specific litters let alone puppies, he asked what I was looking for in a dog and my plans and then after I told him he said that he thought he understood the kind of puppy I'd be comfortable with and had a couple to choose from. I'm assuming he meant that he had a couple that had the temperament I was looking for to choose from and there were options out of those? And I haven't even seen any pictures of the puppies except one example one and a picture of each of the parents. In the end, I will ultimately be strongly relying on his input, but if the puppies are fairly similar in temperament/personalities, is there something further to narrow down the options? Also, do breeders often breed dogs that aren't listed on their website?
I think the puppies are already around 8 weeks old as he said they would be 16 weeks old by the time I would be able to pick one up in early September.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

if two puppies are identical in terms of the breeders assessment and recommendation, I would think it'd be safe for your decision to be made on an arbitrary basis of color, gender, size, etc..... if you are able to interact with them then that's a bonus and allow the pup to choose you so to speak!

interesting that the pups are already 8 weeks and not yet spoken for or headed to their homes? are there any additional terms in which the breeder is willing to keep the pup an additional 2 months for you?


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## Jaesthetic (Apr 7, 2016)

Unfortunately, as I am out of state the whole summer I wouldn't be able to interact with them. 
Do you think it'd be worth it to ask if my boyfriend or a friend could go take a look at the pups for me or not because it wouldn't be them making the decision anyways? Would it help maybe if they could see first hand their personalities? He lives a bit a way so we'd be meeting in the middle (an hour and a half for me and a bit longer for him). I am not sure of their exact age, only that he said that they would be around 16 weeks by early September. I am not sure why they haven't all been reserved yet but he doesn't have them listed on his website or facebook page so maybe it's the lack of advertisement or they are from less desirable parents? He does do some really great pairs so it may just be that clients are more willing to buy one of those even though they're more expensive. He offered to save me a pup from this litter because they were in my price range whereas the next one was significantly more pricy and didn't say anything about additional terms about the extra time with him.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^its just a various generous offer that's all. thinking about the feeding, vet care, (hopefully) training & socializing that can be done in those 2 months.... it could easily take a pup out of your price range.

anyway, no, I don't think it'd be beneficial to send a friend up to meet the pups...at least not from a selection standpoint.


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## Jaesthetic (Apr 7, 2016)

I don't think he will be doing much training since I think he does a lot of training with his own dogs already and will probably be pretty busy with the new litter, but he did say, "The pup will have some crate training by that time. They are paper trained now. They will be 12 to 16 weeks I think by the time you get one. Depends on the litter. These dogs should start training at 5 months. Before that just develop the bond with them and teach them focus."
He did say that they would be up to date on vaccinations, come with full AKC registration, be wormed, and have a tattoo or microchip. He also offers 50% discount on a new puppy or 50% refund if I kept the puppy for a hip guarantee if something came up. 
But yes, he seemed really nice about it overall and willing to work with me around my budget/schedule and answer questions.
Thanks, yeah, I sort of figured the friends wouldn't be particularly useful. 

Do you have any ideas though why a breeder would list some litters on their website/facebook page and not others? The parents look nice, albeit not nearly as great as some of his other pairs, but still definitely what I figured was well worth it for my price range. Could it be because he wants to feature his best litters?


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

OP, why don't you identify the breeder? There's nothing wrong with that. There is a no breeder bashing rule, but if people know the breeder and have specific criticisms/concerns they can PM you.

There are a couple of things in your prior posts that are a little bit of a red flag for me. Having all or almost all the puppies available at 8 weeks is a bit of a concern. Top breeders often have all there puppies reserved pretty quickly.

Also, breeders willingness to keep the puppy an additional 8 weeks is a little bit of a concern. Typically breeders want their puppies to go home at 8 weeks for a variety of reasons. The period between 8 and 16 weeks is pretty critical for the dog's development. It's a great time for you to socialize the puppy and expose it do different people and situations. Breeders statement that during this period the puppy will be "crate trained" is also a concern. Do they mean that the "training" the puppy will receive is that it will spend most of it's day in a crate? Not something I'd want to hear as a prospective purchaser of the puppy.

Finally, not sure I agree with the statement that no training of a puppy should take place before they are 5 months old. Even if you aren't doing formal obedience with corrections, there are lots of things you can do with a young puppy that pave the way for formal training.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Really, if the pup has a good, solid temperament, I would PREFER to get the pup at 12 weeks. Best pup I got was one that was left from a litter and was 12 weeks old...running with another pup and just being a puppy. I don't know why, but he fell in love with me at the first meeting (I was there looking for a female), and hounded me until I took him home. He was great in social settings, only caring about his people, but approachable without any fears or nerves. Very obedient, very bonded, very easily trained.

I've seen some say that about waiting ... so you don't have to unteach anything when you get to more formalized training (ala IPO route). Not saying I agree, but I HAVE heard that.


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Galathiel said:


> Really, if the pup has a good, solid temperament, I would PREFER to get the pup at 12 weeks. Best pup I got was one that was left from a litter and was 12 weeks old...running with another pup and just being a puppy. I don't know why, but he fell in love with me at the first meeting (I was there looking for a female), and hounded me until I took him home. He was great in social settings, only caring about his people, but approachable without any fears or nerves. Very obedient, very bonded, very easily trained.
> 
> I've seen some say that about waiting ... so you don't have to unteach anything when you get to more formalized training (ala IPO route). Not saying I agree, but I HAVE heard that.


Interesting. Not trying to hijack the thread, but I'm curious what others have experienced. I know a lot of breeders have their puppies go home at 8 weeks. Not sure if this is driven by economics or the belief that this is the optimum time. 

I have heard it said that if puppies remain together too long they become "doggy" and have more difficulty bonding with people. But your experience would appear to contradict this. Of course, I'm now on my 4th GSD, all of which I brought home as puppies at approx. 8 weeks and I would say all of my dogs bonded hard to me, only cared about the members of their pack and were obedient and easy to train. Don't know if this was because I got them at 8 weeks, or in spite of it.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Galathiel said:


> Really, if the pup has a good, solid temperament, I would PREFER to get the pup at 12 weeks. Best pup I got was one that was left from a litter and was 12 weeks old...running with another pup and just being a puppy. I don't know why, but he fell in love with me at the first meeting (I was there looking for a female), and hounded me until I took him home. He was great in social settings, only caring about his people, but approachable without any fears or nerves. Very obedient, very bonded, very easily trained.
> 
> I've seen some say that about waiting ... so you don't have to unteach anything when you get to more formalized training (ala IPO route). Not saying I agree, but I HAVE heard that.


I didn't get one of my pups until he was 10 weeks of age due to the weather being too hot to fly and another I bought when she was 10 weeks and she was raised the same in a kennel with siblings until then. Another I bought at fourteen weeks and until he shipped a week later, he lived in a pen with his siblings as well. None of the pups received socialization besides basic care and a little attention and all grew to be well adjusted, confident and stable. Somehow I feel the pups that I got that were kept with their mother and / or siblings a little longer were better adjusted in the long run. I agree with you, I prefer to get my pups older as well if possible.


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## Jaesthetic (Apr 7, 2016)

Breeder is Von Den Blauen Bergen. As of yet, I haven't really experienced anything but good things with him and he seems to really care about and put time/effort into his dogs. I was mostly just curious about the litter publicity thing and if other people had seen similar things. 
I am actually not exactly sure how old the puppies are right now, I assumed that was their age based off of very rough guesstimate by how old they'll be in September which is 12 and 16 weeks but doing the math now, one of the litters should be around 4-5 weeks and the other 8-9 weeks. I think part of him still having puppies unreserved is that he had two litters, one is 4 weeks younger than the other. If both litters were decent sized I don't feel like it's necessarily that unusual to have a few left over.
I asked him about the difference in basic obedience training, crate training, and potty training it would be for me if I started at 12-16 weeks instead of 8 and that was his response, but I didn't really get the vibe anywhere that the puppy would be just constantly crated. 
I'm not really sure about the 5 month training thing, but I'd probably start a little bit at least when I got it which would be 3-4 months.

One thing I am a little unclear about is the difference that it does make temperament, personality, and bonding-wise to get a puppy later rather than earlier and I would love to hear some more opinions/experiences with this. I've read many places that 8 weeks is the *youngest* a puppy should go home, but I haven't really seen anything about adopting one later. I always figured that part of this was just breeders won't have to spend as much time, money, and effort into keeping that many more dogs for that much longer, but I don't know how much it plays into personality and temperament. I have seen some breeders only adopt their puppies out at 10 weeks though never later than that. 

If puppies learn a lot of important pack/socialization skills from their littermate and mother, wouldn't keeping them together be beneficial? I just don't know how long is too long. I don't think that the breeder just isolates and doesn't have any interaction with the puppies though. 

I've also heard a lot of mixed opinions on how much/when you should socialize a puppy. I've heard strong arguments for each of the far sides of the spectrum, that socializing as a puppy has the potential to do a lot of damage and make the puppy fearful, or that puppies need to be socialized considerably when very young. I have no idea which side to believe.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

they are not the last GSD pups in the world.

look closer to the time when you are able to bring a pup home.

this "catalogue" shopping for a pup really irks me .

you can't choose a pup at 4 weeks of age ---- that specific pups
are reserved at that age says volumes


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Jaesthetic said:


> Breeder is Von Den Blauen Bergen. As of yet, I haven't really experienced anything but good things with him and he seems to really care about and put time/effort into his dogs. I was mostly just curious about the litter publicity thing and if other people had seen similar things.
> I am actually not exactly sure how old the puppies are right now, I assumed that was their age based off of very rough guesstimate by how old they'll be in September which is 12 and 16 weeks but doing the math now, one of the litters should be around 4-5 weeks and the other 8-9 weeks. I think part of him still having puppies unreserved is that he had two litters, one is 4 weeks younger than the other. If both litters were decent sized I don't feel like it's necessarily that unusual to have a few left over.
> I asked him about the difference in basic obedience training, crate training, and potty training it would be for me if I started at 12-16 weeks instead of 8 and that was his response, but I didn't really get the vibe anywhere that the puppy would be just constantly crated.
> I'm not really sure about the 5 month training thing, but I'd probably start a little bit at least when I got it which would be 3-4 months.
> ...


I asked Lee "Wolfstraum" that same question as I think it'd be beneficial for pups to learn socialization from their litter mates and dam. His reply was puppies may have to be separated after 2 months if they begin fighting. 
I personally won't ever get another 2 month old puppy. That was so hard. I believe a puppy should be socialized as much as possible with people and other puppies/dogs if possible, as long as you end play right away if it turns aggressive.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Fodder said:


> if two puppies are identical in terms of the breeders assessment and recommendation, I would think it'd be safe for your decision to be made on an arbitrary basis of color, gender, size, etc..... if you are able to interact with them then that's a bonus and allow the pup to choose you so to speak!
> 
> interesting that the pups are already 8 weeks and not yet spoken for or headed to their homes? are there any additional terms in which the breeder is willing to keep the pup an additional 2 months for you?


Yes, I was fortunate to have that experience. I think that's the primary value in going to a local breeder. It just so happened it was the same pup the breeder had recommended for me based on my desires.


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## Ripley2016 (Mar 6, 2016)

*This.... 100%*



John C. said:


> OP, why don't you identify the breeder? There's nothing wrong with that. There is a no breeder bashing rule, but if people know the breeder and have specific criticisms/concerns they can PM you.
> 
> There are a couple of things in your prior posts that are a little bit of a red flag for me. Having all or almost all the puppies available at 8 weeks is a bit of a concern. Top breeders often have all there puppies reserved pretty quickly.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with John. I think it's strange that the breeder has so many pups available. The breeder I used in Northern CA has litters all year long but I still had to reserve my puppy 2 months in advance because the current litter and next litter were all reserved. And this was for dogs that go for $2k/pup. Not like she is giving them away. 

We visited the pups at 6 weeks and she said we could select three we preferred and as they got older she would make final selections based on fit. By 8 weeks she had decided which pup was better for us and explained to me why. So I would say by 6-8 weeks you can tell personality/temperament/fit with some clarity, and I agree with the others that in most cases it is wise to let the breeder choose (though I'm not sure in this case with this breeder that you should go for it.)

I would personally not choose to bring home a puppy older than 10 weeks, IF your goal is to get a "puppy" and not just adopting an older dog. The reason is because puppies' window for socialization is between 3-16 weeks. By week 12 or 16 you've missed all your big opportunity to socialize YOUR pup to YOUR lifestyle. I think a puppy going home any time between 8-10 weeks is completely normal, and the additional 2 weeks until 10 weeks is probably valuable littermate socialization. 

I would suggest not committing to a pup and go see them - and other breeders - when you return home.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I have 3 gsds till now. First one i picked up. The other two (whose pics i posted today) were their breeder's choice. I think it is best to choose a breeder carefully and research on the bloodlines of the parents. And then specify your priorities clearly to the breeder
(eg in may case it would be no loose hocks, no soft ears, no shyness, no exaggeration in the rear, good forearm length, correct bite etc.). If you do your research and choose a right breeder, a good pup is sure to follow. But no pup or dog is ready made. Followup is equally important.

If you have plans of showing, try to form good relation with gsd handlers. 

I think best strategy is have your priorities specified to the breeder, and then negotiate. Hope this helps


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

When I bred, I had firm rule that all pups would leave me between 8-10 weeks, unless I planned to keep and train one. I would greatly reduce the price, to place pup at 10 weeks in a good home, than hold on to pup until 14 months or older for reasons such as money, show, or sport potential. When buying pups, the most important element to me is the integrity of the breeder, and second, that I get the pup between 8-10 weeks. Not saying this is gospel, but it has been extremely successful for me over many years and many pups.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I will hold on to a pup until exactly the right home came along.
During that period that dog was given all the attention as if it were the only dog that I had .
There was a great deal of value added . It was a lot of work. It was a lot of fun. If you don't enjoy or care for the dogs then do not do it. 
There were professional couples who asked and paid to have the dog properly started - house training, manners, leash walking etc . They would visit as often as they could and were involved in the learning to do things properly and bond with the pup until such time that all felt the time was right to hand the dog over . 
It worked out splendidly -- 
No pup was ever under a deadline .
I could do this because I might only have one or two litters per year .


This kennel that you are contemplating is a busy hive of pup production !! Commercial.

I would not leave a dog behind to linger without the personal attention that a pup needs during this critical period of socialization .

Here is a quote of their early fall line-up !
September which is 12 and 16 weeks but doing the math now, one of the litters should be around 4-5 weeks and the other 8-9 weeks .

this is probably the normal state of things .

as I said before GSD are not rare . If you like the dogs they have , looks like there is something to choose from any day of the week.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

cliffson1 said:


> When I bred, I had firm rule that all pups would leave me between 8-10 weeks, unless I planned to keep and train one. I would greatly reduce the price, to place pup at 10 weeks in a good home, than hold on to pup until 14 weeks or older for reasons such as money, show, or sport potential. When buying pups, the most important element to me is the integrity of the breeder, and second, that I get the pup between 8-10 weeks. Not saying this is gospel, but it has been extremely successful for me over many years and many pups.


Sorry folks I meant 14 weeks, btw yes you can keep them longer if you are willing to do what Carmen does, unfortunately very very view breeders do. Especially pet or show breeders that aren't imprinting their pups for things that require the dog to be exposed to things outside the home or ring.


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