# Alt. to prong collar



## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

Hey Everyone!

I have a prong collar for my 4 yr old, and have been experiencing some problems. While it works in the sense that it keeps my shepherd from pulling, that only becuase I am constantly checking/popping the collar to keep her at my side. Obviously, this is realllly annoying. The second issue is fit/placement. I know the proper way is to have it high and tight under her ears with the rings on the right side of her neck, the collor nevers seems to stay there, even with me taking out a link to make the collar tighter. I either have the extra link which makes it to loose and the rings rotate to the back of her neck, or I try to put it on under her ears and it slowly sides down, gets too tight and gets tangled in her fur/pinchs incorrectly. Either way, the pinch collar is in the wrong place or isn't working correctly.
So, while the pinch collar is sorta effective, I would love to get any ideas for alternatives. It needs to keep her from pulling and to walk on my left side, basically at my knee. Is that even possible without using a pinch collar? I have no idea if a harness would een work, they generally look like your dog has to be out in front of you. I refuse to use a choke chain btw. 
Thanks!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I transitioned off the prong collar to a Softouch Concepts harness, and I would also use a 12" traffic lead to keep the dog right next to me. Of course we would still work on the heel command, but this would be my setup when walking a pulling dog, or multiple dogs at once, as I could have a dog on both sides of me and keep them close for sidewalks or streets where there might be distractions, other dogs off leash, or cars. I would walk all over Portland, OR with this setup, down SE 82nd Ave, etc. I have both the Softouch Sensation and the Sensible. Here's the website and photos of my setup:

Softouch Concepts, Inc - Softouch Concepts, Inc Homepage


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The problem is not the collar. The problem is you do not know how to use the collar.


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## petite (Apr 5, 2014)

What brand of prong collar are you using? Are the prongs and links a large gauge? You may want try a Herm Sprenger with smaller prongs but in a width to accommodate your GSD's neck. It's easier to adjust the smaller links for a closer fit than relying on luck with the larger links. 

If you are having to pop your dog over and over for the same behavior, you may need to give a stronger correction. One big correction that disturbs the dog into realizing pulling is not a goo idea is better than several smaller, nagging corrections that he may be learning to tolerate and ignore. 

I'm no pro but I do work with a GSD savvy trainer and this is what I see working in class.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I use the Walk in Sync harness and leash. It comes with a money-back guarantee and training videos to download. My Sting walks nicely by my side. The harness is comfortable and is not a tight fit. The website has a video that explains the method. Here is the website: Walk In Sync - The Easiest and Most Humane Way to Walk and Train Your Dog - Home


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

From their website. 

Prong Collars
This collar was designed by a veterinarian to simulate a mother dog grabbing the neck of her puppy. This metal collar with flat head prongs, digs into the dog’s neck every time the dog pulls. There have been many cases of dogs pulling right through these prongs and wind up with serious puncture wounds on their necks. The collars can be extremely dangerous to humans who happen to catch their fingers between the prongs. Ultimately this painful collar does not teach the dog to master its own energy, but rather simply to be cautious of the prongs.


I'd love to see how a dog can pull to the point of getting puncture wounds. After this line I can't trust anything else they say. 
Not even talking about the fact that used correctly the dog should never get to the point of pulling on the prong.

ETA the website has an overall feel of an infomercial. And takes jabs at other tools while giving false info about them. I don't know about their harness but wouldn't be interested based on what I read.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

lalachka said:


> I'd love to see how a dog can pull to the point of getting puncture wounds. After this line I can't trust anything else they say.


I know from earlier research and experience that there are cheap, generic brand prong collars that are actually sharp and could certainly puncture skin. That's why most people recommend Herm Sprenger, as the prong tips are rounded and smooth. I used HS for years before transitioning off prongs completely. But to anyone looking into prongs, I will always recommend ONLY Herm Sprenger until I see something better. So far, HS is the standard.

I have even put the HS prong around my own neck and pulled into it hard and it caused discomfort, but no pain or punctures.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

counter said:


> I know from earlier research and experience that there are cheap, generic brand prong collars that are actually sharp and could certainly puncture skin. That's why most people recommend Herm Sprenger, as the prong tips are rounded and smooth. I used HS for years before transitioning off prongs completely. But to anyone looking into prongs, I will always recommend ONLY Herm Sprenger until I see something better. So far, HS is the standard.
> 
> Edit: I have even put the HS prong around my own neck and pulled into it hard and it caused discomfort, but no pain or punctures.


As far as I know it's the other way around. It's wide and dull though it has unfinished edges but it's not sharp enough to puncture the skin. 

However some people sharpen the prong collars. Leerburg recommends it. That's the only way I can see this happening but by that logic, i can take her harness and wrap it around the dog's neck and strangle him and then say the harness is dangerous.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

I wouldn't ever sharpen a prong.

I like the Herm Springer.

If it's not staying in place, it's not tight enough. fit it so you can just get two fingers under it. 

And, yes, if you find your 'nagging your dog' with it, you're not using it properly.

When you accustom your dog, one or two 'pops' usually teaches them' They should never tug on it.

good luck.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

zyppi said:


> I wouldn't ever sharpen a prong.
> 
> I like the Herm Springer.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't sharpen it either. I hope it didn't sound like advice. 

I'm just saying he recommends it and I'm sure someone has done it and that's the only way I can imagine a prong making puncture wounds. 

And yeah, if the leash is tight with the prong them you're not using it right.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

lalachka said:


> As far as I know it's the other way around. It's wide and dull though it has unfinished edges but it's not sharp enough to puncture the skin.


I never paid enough attention to what made them sharp. I just remember running my fingers across the prongs and they felt sharp enough to cut skin. That's when I knew I wasn't buying a generic version, and I got the HS instead.


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## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

I have an HS, in the medium size, which was what was recommended to me by the lady who ran the rescue. I've started looking into things like head halters/gentle leaders/harnesses etc, just because I have gotten so frustrated at the prong collar and I want to use something else when we start training. Thank you for all the help though! While I have experience with the prong, obviously something else is happening or I don't have the right experience for what is happening now.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't care where it is on their neck and I want enough slack in it so that I get a pop and release action with it. I just pop straight back 3 times without saying a word while I'm walking. I don't change my pace at all, leash in my left hand. The second part is a clear release so that they know when they can leave my side.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Vega-gurl said:


> I've started looking into things like head halters/gentle leaders/harnesses etc.


My GSDs walked better on lead over time and with training, regardless of what tool I used at the time. My Sibes, yeah, not so much. But I'm pretty sure the general consensus is to avoid head halters and gentle leaders. I know they work for some people, but after reading the majority of replies on this forum, I remember most are against them due to other issues they cause. That's why I went with the prong until I found the Softouch harness.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

I have both a generic and HS prongs. What makes the generic sharp is that the ends of the prongs are cut off flat with no filing of the edges. Given enough force I can see those prongs leaving skin scrapped up pretty good.


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## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

I'm nervous that any of the head harness things could cause neck damage or something like that. Especially since Vega gets so excited about squirrels and birds on her walks. I'm hoping the trainer might have recomendations for what might work best.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

I have used head halters on many dogs. It comes down to using appropriate tools for a dog. While I like the head halter, it may not be the best thing for every dog and I don't recommend it for every case of pulling I come across. If it's just a dog that forging ahead very powerfully or for someone very weak who needs more precise control, it can be a good thing. If it is a dog that alligator rolls when it sees a squirrel, it won't be the right tool because it could cause neck injury when the dog flips out. Anytime someone is choosing a tool for their dog, I always recommend going with what makes them most comfortable and to try several methods to figure out which one works best for the individual dog. 

I absolutely hate choke chains, but a couple days ago I was working with an Aussie that simply was not responding to anything else. So we tried a choke chain with a correction/release method. Two corrections and he is walking perfectly on his leash without snapping, barking, literally flipping on the leash. Soon he will be worked off of it onto a flat collar, but if that is the tool he responds to and will get him to the end goal I need him to reach, I will use it to my advantage. Not saying to use a choke chain specifically, but just be open to trying your options to see what works best for you.


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## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

After reading through all this great advice and lots of research+speaking to some more knowledgeable folks, I went a got a freedom no pull harness. Its a dream! Not only does it stop the pulling, it gives me more control AND redirects Vega's attention back on me to give correction and praise. I think this another great option for GSD owners, or for people with other types of large, rambunctious dogs. Thanks everyone for chiming in!


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

I used to be against head halters like gentle leaders and halti's (or whatever they are called now). A few weeks ago I was going through my dog stuff and came across a gentle leader that I was given years ago while working at a vet clinic and helping the resident trainer with her classes. A client was using it on her dog and we concluded that wasnt the best equiptment for that particular dog. It was a big American Bulldog (wayyyy bigger than most) that liked to lunge with an owner who was older and unable to hold the dog. The dog was gonna hurt himself with the head halter. I cringed everytime I saw the dog tense to lunge. But I decided to put it on my nearly 7 year old who likes to pull and who hasnt been given the proper amount of time and dedication to training as he needed due to personal issues that monopolized the last 6 years of my life. The prong doesnt work for anything as hes had 6 long years to pull his little heart out with, so I tried the head halter just to give me some type of control as I try to retrain him to not pull and it was like magic! He is a constant puller with consistent pressure, doesnt lunge just pulls and the head halter slows him down a bit. It also offers a correction that is calming versus popping his prong that excites him even more. I also connect a tab to his flat collar and give just enough slack on the leash connected to the head halter that he only feels it pull when he steps too far out in front of me. So far ive seen wonderful results with it. I'm not recommending any one product, just an example of how different products work for different dogs. I never thought a "softie" piece of equiptment such as a head halter could even hold my spaz of a dog especially since he just pulls right through a prong and the type of correction he would need from a prong to actually be meaningful is something I wouldnt feel comfortable doing in public anyways (or at all to be honest). I'm amazed at the difference a few weeks using the head halter and dedicating time to actual training has done for my dog even at his age. 6 years is a long time to form a habit and to make headway into changing it this fast is amazing. With the right equiptment for that specific dog you can expedite the goals you wish to achieve. No, nothing can replace actual training but there are things that can help you along the way.


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## Vega-gurl (Sep 1, 2014)

I've been going through basic OB classes, which has helped a ton too. The trainer actually didn't like the harness I was using, not becuase it was "bad" but it was basically meant for a dog with a worse pulling problem then I had, and that I still couldn't get enough over her attention constiently. Training and using an easy walk instead is working out really well. I'm amazed at all the differences in equipment! And how nice it is now to have options for our dogs. For a long time it seemed that it was either some heavy duty correction device or nothing at all. Getting off the prong collar did wonders for us, but I totally get how its the best device for someone else, same with the head collar. It is all about whatever works for you and your pet!


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