# Show lines and stamina



## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Hi ya'll,
I've been taking G on a daily run, we go 5 miles every day 5 days a week. The weekend we rest completely, he will lounge around in the yard but nothing more. For the most part he has been doing amazing on the runs, leading the way most days (which I like and shows me he has good energy) and we play ball in the middle for a little bit. This morning we woke up, he was energized, ready to go waiting by the door. The first half of the run he was leading the way, super excited... we got to the park, played ball for a bit and then headed home and he just completely pooped out. Dragged the entire way back home.. ended up walking it since he seemed so exhausted. I just dropped the leash and he followed behind me for the 2 miles back home, didn't even look up at the other dogs we walked by. Checked his paws and everything looked good. At the park we get water everyday and I make sure his inner thighs and head is wet so he isn't getting too hot we are also running at 6 am and the temps are usually still in the mid 70's. He ate his breakfast fine, a little peckish but he did finish it and he inhaled his afternoon snack.. he also inhaled his dinner. Poop was perfect... His weight is back where it should be and has been stable. The rest of the day today he slept like he was beat. I'm kind of at a loss here what I should do with him. My last shepherd was a working line and he could out pace me for miles, we would run 12 mile days in a row and he never grew weary even when he was older. I'll be honest I have a hard time leaving Gandalf at home..... I really enjoy running with him. It wouldn't be the same without him, he is totally my little running buddy.... I have been contemplating this for a while though.. if perhaps he just isn't cut out for it and shouldn't run period. He seems as healthy as ever right now yet is struggling occasionally with just a few miles on some days. I feel like we aren't running too fast. I'm actually getting a bit bored with the distance and would ideally like to run further but refrain because of him. Other days he is full of energy and I can barely keep up with him. I have a hard time telling what the run will be like because mornings like today he was ready to go and seemed healthy! It seems like we have 1 or 2 days like this per month and I can't figure out what is causing it. I don't want to hurt him and push him more than what he can handle but at the same time I do also feel bad leaving him home, he seems to really enjoy our runs too when he is feeling up to it and he can't wait to go. We run on mostly soft surfaces (grass & dirt) but have a little section through the city. Do your dogs have days where they just don't feel like doing much? I can't tell if something is wrong with him since he seems happy, is eating well, and his poops are good... I don't want to just leave him out from living life because of his past medical history, especially since our regular vet told us he seemed healthy enough for exercise and to manage his flare ups as they happen. Exercise is also supposed to be so good for your health and healing. Is this just normal for a showline? He is mellower than my WL in other aspects.... Just his personality? I wish they could talk. 
Thanks 

PS here is a picture of him I shared on here the other day, this was an average run for us at the 3 mile mark going through the short city part. To me he looks energized and happy, he didn't lag that day but also wasn't leading. Am I missing something? I know sometimes when we look at our dogs everyday we don't see the same thing as someone else might. The only thing he carries in his sack is 2-3 little plastic poop bags and my medicine, it's super light.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Maybe he just isn't a running dog. Have you thought about not running him in the summer? Even early morning or late in the evening when it _should_ be cool may be too hot for these guys. He may just need to take a summer break and start up again in the fall. Also, could you go on a couple runs? One with him where you don't go super far, then go by yourself and go as far as you want? Could the pack be causing him to overheat, even though it is very light? I don't particularly want things strapped to me when I'm running in the heat.

Just some thoughts!


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Pytheis said:


> Maybe he just isn't a running dog. Have you thought about not running him in the summer? Even early morning or late in the evening when it _should_ be cool may be too hot for these guys. He may just need to take a summer break and start up again in the fall. Also, could you go on a couple runs? One with him where you don't go super far, then go by yourself and go as far as you want? Could the pack be causing him to overheat, even though it is very light? I don't particularly want things strapped to me when I'm running in the heat.
> 
> Just some thoughts!


Thanks for your input Pytheis!!! I have thought about the heat a lot........ my WL dark sable shepherd would run with me in the middle of the afternoon here in the summer and have no issues... Gandalf is white so I've thought he should be cooler. Although he does have a long coat and my sable did not. When we go to the club here all of the other shepherds are dying in this heat and generally Gandalf seems to be tolerating it better. Could be he is just better conditioned than those dogs (not sure what they would do on a 5 mile run after all?). He is a different dog, with a different personality, so perhaps it is just that, he may not like running in the heat! It isn't fair to compare him to my old dog. I did feel today was _slightly_ warmer than the other days this week, but wouldn't have thought it would have been enough to bother him! Maybe I am wrong! I've experimented with it a bit and haven't noticed a real difference for him with pack on or off, but I could understand that being an issue. He had a bad day last month when he wasn't wearing the pack. I'm curious to see if he does pick things up in the fall... we actually started running instead of hiking this summer because the woods this time of year are too full of ticks and fleas and he doesn't tolerate the preventatives very well. That's a good idea to take him on a short run first and then drop him off at home.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Maybe he should go on shorter runs for awhile. How many months has he been running? How old is he now? Maybe he needs to work up to those 5 mile runs this time of year.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

dogfaeries said:


> Maybe he should go on shorter runs for awhile. How many months has he been running? How old is he now? Maybe he needs to work up to those 5 mile runs this time of year.


He has been running for 2 months now, I started him off slow and we've been working up distance. He's a year and 8 months right now. Does that seem like too much for him for his age? I always do forget how young he still is.... he acts all grown up. We run i'd say around 4 of those miles on grass and dirt. Before his breeder had passed away I asked her what age he could start running with me and she recommended a year old.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

My girl Scarlet is a bit older than Gandalf. She’ll be 2 in a couple of weeks. I’ve been wanting to roadwork her on my bicycle, but my breeders said to wait until she was at least 18 months old, and only for short distances at first. I haven’t started yet because it’s just too warm, even early in the am. Anyway, 5 miles of running seems a lot to ask of your guy at this age.


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## Suzy25 (Mar 3, 2016)

How often do you do "fun" exercise, maybe increase the fun exercise and shorten the runs, or give him wednesday off for running as well as the weekend, he might like running but not everyday for quite as long as that. It might get boring for him. Add in some more fun stuff and take the pack off, although it isn't heavy it can be keeping heat in. He will probably be more excited about running come the fall and having a bit of a break. 
My dog loves running with me on the bike but that added with the fun exercise tires him out almost too much and he is almost sluggish and too tired in the house, like it tires the spark of life out of him (low- medium ish energy) G might just want a bit of a change to keep him motivated


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

How humid is it at that time in the morning? Even if the temps are up there yet the humidity may be higher and harder for him to breath, it might even have been a particularly humid morning that morning that he was lagging.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Suzy25 said:


> How often do you do "fun" exercise, maybe increase the fun exercise and shorten the runs, or give him wednesday off for running as well as the weekend, he might like running but not everyday for quite as long as that. It might get boring for him. Add in some more fun stuff and take the pack off, although it isn't heavy it can be keeping heat in. He will probably be more excited about running come the fall and having a bit of a break.
> My dog loves running with me on the bike but that added with the fun exercise tires him out almost too much and he is almost sluggish and too tired in the house, like it tires the spark of life out of him (low- medium ish energy) G might just want a bit of a change to keep him motivated


We do fun things every day. We play ball, rollerblade, hike, swim, go to the beach, go on trips to the mountains, agility, obedience classes, scent class, he likes to ride ferries to tropical islands, go to the garden center and see giant bears & dragons, play with his dog friends, If you'd like to see all the fun stuff this guy does you can check out his facebook page here :smile2: https://www.facebook.com/FoxhuntsYouShallNotPass/?ref=bookmarks
I try not to overwhelm him, but we do interesting stuff all the time. I really don't think he is bored.... on our runs he sees lots of other dogs, and meets lots of different people and we stop to play ball, do a little obedience and I usually end up chasing him and playing with him around the park. He definitely is very excited to go for the run in the morning, he sits by the door waiting to go ... its just that he poops out in the middle every once in a while. That's a good idea to give him a day off in the middle of the week, maybe its just too much continuous for him and he just need a break in between. Do you bike with your guy this time of year? Are you in a warm climate too?


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

KaiserAus said:


> How humid is it at that time in the morning? Even if the temps are up there yet the humidity may be higher and harder for him to breath, it might even have been a particularly humid morning that morning that he was lagging.


Could be , I have a problem so i'm usually cold and don't notice. The humidity just makes it feel colder to me. But i'm sure it could be bugging him. Someone on here mentioned how you could add the humidity and the temperature, I didn't check today but maybe it was slightly higher. That would certainly explain the randomness of it.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

I rollerblade with my boy about 4-5 times a week. When it's before 6pm and the sun is still OUT out, he's not to keen on it but he will run. On cooler hours, he's more energetic. But there are days when he just doesn't wanna keep up, or I have to go veeery slow on the rollerblades. But whenever he sees something that moves, like a cycler or a jogger, he will sprint and sprint, until I tell him to 'halt.' So I suppose mine is the kind of dog that needs a lot of motivation, his prey drive is very high. I bike or rollerblade with him 1-3 miles each time. I rollerblade more than I bike because I could go slower on the rollerblades. But do check if your Gandalf is walking funny or something. Because one day mine was walking funny after we cycled 6 miles on a beach boardwalk, he had a minor sprain on the back leg. He was energetic and fine, so I didn't stop him. But I had forgotten he was still just a puppy that needed me to decide what is too much or not.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I had waited 18 months for long endurance rides on hard surfaces. I would not get necessarily hung up on the line but the particular dog- exercising. We bike for miles - not recently-and the dogs more then keep up. I baby them to when Im worried about them over heating and someone rides ahead they have not begun to open up and want to fly. Last time you posted some blood results showing issues - how were the blood results when you did them again? You have to listen to your dog if it’s to much you need to scale it back and build up a slower. Some dogs are also more mellow also and or Gandalf maybe more of a sprinter. The heat to plays a big factor in so monitoring them is important.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jenny720 said:


> I had waited 18 months for long endurance rides on hard surfaces. I would not get necessarily hung up on the line but the particular dog- exercising. We bike for miles - not recently-and the dogs more then keep up. I baby them to when Im worried about them over heating and someone rides ahead they have not begun to open up and want to fly. Last time you posted some blood results showing issues - how were the blood results when you did them again? You have to listen to your dog if it’s to much you need to scale it back and build up a slower. Some dogs are also more mellow also and or Gandalf maybe more of a sprinter. The heat to plays a big factor in so monitoring them is important.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds like his age is not the problem then since he is 20 months. We aren't even running on hard surface most of the time so I figured that wasn't really the issue. I watch how he is running as well and I don't see any limping or visual signs of pain, he is just like nope i'm done randomly half way through on these kinds of days. I'm wondering too if maybe it is because we play ball at the half way point and that is really all he wants, and once its over he doesn't care about "getting to somewhere"? 
His blood results had some issues, I truly don't know how to interpret them. The ER vet who I didn't really trust (she was the one that told me he was a wolf hybrid and to go take him to the zoo next time seriously) said he would be dead tomorrow if I didn't put him on kibble. And that was all she would talk about. We tried putting him on kibble and it gave him diarrhea so he is back on his raw and his poops are good again. He just can't tolerate kibble at all. I called my regular vet who I semi trust and he told me the results were fine.... keep doing what we are doing... and if he has a flare up again just bring him in for medication. His issues from the ER vet resolved immediately, we suspect it was a reaction to the Revolution. We have only used interceptor since and haven't noticed any kind of reaction. He has been eating good since that visit and been his usual playful self. Thanks for your input :smile2:


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I would re do blood work for peace of mind sake if possible and are concerned about stamina level. I am glad he is doing better. Does he do this on long bike rides. He may just be out of gas and need to build him up more slowly in this hot weather. Many years ago My mom had American Eskimo’s one had a very obvious bum leg - was shorter then the rest. When I walked her - short walks but even so -if she was done with the walk she would just sit in the road and not budge - nothing I could do to get her to move and then I would have to carry her back - even though she only weighed 20lbs it felt double that in the heat -ugh!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

KaiserAus said:


> How humid is it at that time in the morning? Even if the temps are up there yet the humidity may be higher and harder for him to breath, it might even have been a particularly humid morning that morning that he was lagging.



I've noticed that with my big-boy who is long haired, that humidity is almost more of a problem then temperature. It could be 68 degrees and he'd drag. The high dew point makes it tougher for him to cool down but can make me feel chilly. Go figure. This is one reason we quite IPO. Training in high humidity temps slowed down both the dog and my hubby who is his primary handler.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jenny720 said:


> I would re do blood work for peace of mind sake if possible and are concerned about stamina level. I am glad he is doing better. Does he do this on long bike rides. He may just be out of gas and need to build him up more slowly in this hot weather. Many years ago My mom had American Eskimo’s one had a very obvious bum leg - was shorter then the rest. When I walked her - short walks but even so -if she was done with the walk she would just sit in the road and not budge - nothing I could do to get her to move and then I would have to carry her back - even though she only weighed 20lbs it felt double that in the heat -ugh!


Thats a good idea, I might try to find a new vet and get it done again soon. We don't bike ride but we do roller blade in the fall. Since he was so young I didn't let him go very far, we just did a couple quick sprints and then turned around so it certainly wasn't this kind of distance that we are running now. He did fine roller blading though, really seemed to love going fast! LOL i'm glad he doesn't do what your eskimo did or we would be stuck, no way I can carry him :grin2:!!!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I typed a more thoughtful reply and it got lost. But, your dog has some weird blood values right? This is just my 2c but that is quite an athletic endeavor for a dog with ongoing health issues that I would consider not cleared up since his blood work isn't normal. I also personally would not run a dog like that without having done at least OFA prelims.

My dogs would probably have dropped dead if I had run them that far in FL in Jul, Aug. I think he is trying to tell you it's too much, either because he isn't healthy or it is just too much for him with the heat and humidity period

My girl got pretty sick a year or two ago and the first thing I noticed was that she just quit on a walk. Halfway up the first hill she was just like, I can't do it. I took her home and she got sicker and sicker, requiring veterinary care.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Don't you live in Florida? Its hot, humid, he has a lot of hair. He has the summer doldrums. 

So do we all.....


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I typed a more thoughtful reply and it got lost. But, your dog has some weird blood values right? This is just my 2c but that is quite an athletic endeavor for a dog with ongoing health issues that I would consider not cleared up since his blood work isn't normal. I also personally would not run a dog like that without having done at least OFA prelims.
> 
> My dogs would probably have dropped dead if I had run them that far in FL in Jul, Aug. I think he is trying to tell you it's too much, either because he isn't healthy or it is just too much for him with the heat and humidity period
> 
> My girl got pretty sick a year or two ago and the first thing I noticed was that she just quit on a walk. Halfway up the first hill she was just like, I can't do it. I took her home and she got sicker and sicker, requiring veterinary care.


Yeah those are some very good points. I actually tried to get his hips and elbows done while he was put under anyways and the ER vet straight up refused. They told me there isn't a point in doing it, just give him some glucosamine... I guess I didn't realize how extraordinary my old sable was, this would have been nothing for him. I just kind of assumed most dogs were capable of running like him. Sure do miss my old guy. Is there a breed of dog particularly good at running long distances without a super thick coat? We were thinking of getting G a friend eventually anyways.... I could definitely rotate each day with a different dog lol. I figured this was just a show line thing or something but sounds like maybe it isn't. I'll give him some more rest and just take him every once in a while until it gets a bit cooler out and try it again.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I am not a fan of forced exercise for any dog. I run with Shadow, but like a mile or so. If it's over 17 degrees she sets the pace and she sets the distance( about 63 for you) I have done this with all the dogs. I don't bike or rollerblade with dogs. Stimulates their need to chase and could result in overwork. If I find she needs more exercise we play fetch at home, or tug. If she is really energetic we run a bit further but at no point would I demand that a GSD run for 5 miles, especially a young, growing one with health issues. This is a trotting breed and while they can be conditioned to trot for extended distances you cannot expect it over night. As far as actual running, not their most efficient gait and for sprints not marathons.

He looks forward to the running because he is going with you, and give him credit for the fact that he is trying to please you. Assuming that a dog living there has acclimated to hotter conditions he is still making it clear that you are asking too much.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> I am not a fan of forced exercise for any dog. I run with Shadow, but like a mile or so. If it's over 17 degrees she sets the pace and she sets the distance( about 63 for you) I have done this with all the dogs. I don't bike or rollerblade with dogs. Stimulates their need to chase and could result in overwork. If I find she needs more exercise we play fetch at home, or tug. If she is really energetic we run a bit further but at no point would I demand that a GSD run for 5 miles, especially a young, growing one with health issues. This is a trotting breed and while they can be conditioned to trot for extended distances you cannot expect it over night. As far as actual running, not their most efficient gait and for sprints not marathons.
> 
> He looks forward to the running because he is going with you, and give him credit for the fact that he is trying to please you. Assuming that a dog living there has acclimated to hotter conditions he is still making it clear that you are asking too much.


We aren't sprinting 5 miles.... it's a jog. Thought that was implied. He is TROTTING. 5 miles a day is not far at all... I would really expect this breed to be capable of much more since they are working dogs. That's why I figured maybe it was a show lines thing. How in the world does rollerblading stimulate their need to chase? He doesn't chase me on roller blades he runs in front. I really don't know if he has health issues, my regular vet said he is fine. The bloodwork had some areas off but he said it was nothing to be concerned about. He didn't recommend changing foods, or medications, or supplements. I don't know if this is good advice or just a bad vet.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You are are treating your dog like an athlete. Are you feeding him like one? 25-30% protein? 50% fat? 20% carbs? Are you giving him anything to help his muscles recoup like Power Boost or Go Dog that has maltodextrin in it?


I bet if you make some changes to his diet, you will see a difference in stamina.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> We aren't sprinting 5 miles.... it's a jog. Thought that was implied. He is TROTTING. 5 miles a day is not far at all... I would really expect this breed to be capable of much more since they are working dogs. That's why I figured maybe it was a show lines thing. How in the world does rollerblading stimulate their need to chase? He doesn't chase me on roller blades he runs in front. I really don't know if he has health issues, my regular vet said he is fine. The bloodwork had some areas off but he said it was nothing to be concerned about. He didn't recommend changing foods, or medications, or supplements. I don't know if this is good advice or just a bad vet.



Haha! I think you took my post a bit wrong. Yes the breed is very capable of jogging, my point was that forced motion is different then free motion. And I know I need to pace myself to keep Shadow at a trot or she breaks into a run. I meant I don't rollerblade or bike with dogs. Biking stimulates chasing. Either of those activities are likely to move the dog to a run from a trot. You did not get up one day and say I think I will run 5 miles, you built up to it. He needs to as well.

But my point was that forcing a dog to run that far at that age is likely detrimental. And understand that dogs are masters at hiding discomfort. He will run because you run and he wants to be with you, even if it's hurting him. Sabi worked all night with a huge cut on her pad. It wasn't until I saw a bloody pawprint that I realized why she was acting "off". At that point we were 11 hours in and she must have been in agony, tough to note blood in the dark, but I got not a whimper or a limp from her. Shadow has a bad heart but will run with me until she is stumbling if I don't stop her. Left to her own she will lay down and rest. You also need to factor in things like humidity, his beautiful coat, pollution or smoke that might be carrying and the fact that you have most of your body away from warm surfaces while he has all of his near it.

And I don't know about your vet.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> > We aren't sprinting 5 miles.... it's a jog. Thought that was implied. He is TROTTING. 5 miles a day is not far at all... I would really expect this breed to be capable of much more since they are working dogs. That's why I figured maybe it was a show lines thing. How in the world does rollerblading stimulate their need to chase? He doesn't chase me on roller blades he runs in front. I really don't know if he has health issues, my regular vet said he is fine. The bloodwork had some areas off but he said it was nothing to be concerned about. He didn't recommend changing foods, or medications, or supplements. I don't know if this is good advice or just a bad vet.
> ...


We did build up to it... he started running again just like I did. We started with a mile, a c25k like program. I'm still not understanding how biking or roller blading makes them chase. What is he having to chase? We run at a very steady pace, he never breaks into a run when we are jogging. We live in FL so there are no hills, it's very easy here to maintain a steady pace. I understand it's not free running, we do a lot of that too with off leash hiking. But I'm also not dragging him along when we jog. On days he is feeling good which is about 99% of the time he is in front or by my side. Just one or two days out of the month he might drag, and when he does we walk. I also constantly check is paws and watch his gait for any discomfort. I wake up at 6am so he doesn't have to run in the heat , maybe it is still just too hot for him. It feels really cold out to me, usually in the low to mid 70's.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> You are are treating your dog like an athlete. Are you feeding him like one? 25-30% protein? 50% fat? 20% carbs? Are you giving him anything to help his muscles recoup like Power Boost or Go Dog that has maltodextrin in it?
> 
> 
> I bet if you make some changes to his diet, you will see a difference in stamina.


He's getting 35% protein, 50% fat. Should I be giving more carbs & less protein? I'm not currently giving him any supplements, ill have to look into those you mentioned. Is 5 miles really that far? Seems like nothing to me... I don't consider that really an athlete. Hmm.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> He has been running for 2 months now, I started him off slow and we've been working up distance. He's a year and 8 months right now. Does that seem like too much for him for his age? I always do forget how young he still is.... he acts all grown up. We run i'd say around 4 of those miles on grass and dirt. Before his breeder had passed away I asked her what age he could start running with me and she recommended a year old.



In two months you have built him up to 5 miles in 90 degree temps, or hotter. I don't understand why you can't understand what I am saying. And yes bikes stimulate the chase response which is why they do not recommend it as a safe way to exercise. I cannot ride a bike slow enough to keep a dog from breaking into a run. 

I am not saying you are some big meany, I'm saying you may be overworking a dog and mistaking his enthusiasm to be with you for a desire to run.


In any case if the dog is falling off at the end, especially in that heat, it's too much and should be looked at.


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## Beau's Mom (Nov 9, 2017)

Don’t discount the heat and humidity as factors, even if it feels good to you. Gandalf and his beautiful long coat could just not be very heat tolerant.

My Beau can’t handle the heat, and humidity makes it much worse for him. He loves fetch, and in the cold he’ll run full out for 45 minutes solid, pausing onlly milliseconds each time he returns the ball. I’m the one calling it quits at 45 min because he’s clearly slowing down and panting hard - he’d keep going til he dropped. He’s happiest with temps below 65 Fahrenheit. Much over 70,and he slows way down. Over 75, he quits fetching on his own after 10 minutes or so. 

Maybe humid mid-70s is too hot for Gandalf to run much, even at a trot?

Beau is working line, stock coat.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Even with cooler temps, With all that Gandolph has gone through with his digestive issues, he may be prone to days where he may feel a little off but is still healthy. I think even though the vet said he is fine, blood work good etc, you still need to consider the kind of system he has to work with. 

It's kind of like the saying: work with the dog in front of you . One of my first thoughts when I read you're original post was "she put so much time, effort and love getting Gandolph healthy, why bother increasing the excersize. You have done really good by him and maybe he is at or just a tad above his personal maximum activity tolerance.

It's just something to think about.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> He's getting 35% protein, 50% fat. Should I be giving more carbs & less protein? I'm not currently giving him any supplements, ill have to look into those you mentioned. Is 5 miles really that far? Seems like nothing to me... I don't consider that really an athlete. Hmm.



5 miles every day, in the heat qualifies as an active dog for sure. Our sport dogs are doing quick sprints at training, every day. And they benefit from supplements that target muscle regeneration. The science says to give the maltodextrin within 30 minutes of stopping the exercise to replace the sugars their body is burning. Without supplementing, it takes more than 24 hours to regenerate on their own. Science also shows that protein over 32% and you'll see a decrease in stamina. 


Also, one study I read said the dog's body temperature is highest 4 hours after they ate. Ideally, exercise them 12 hours after but feed them as soon as you are done. Maybe think about when he has last eaten, especially in the hot, humid, summer.



I would try decreasing the protein to about 30%. Leave the fat where it is. And supplement with a maltodextrin product. Just watch what proteins they have in them for "flavor". There is one product with only malto, whey and vanilla flavored that might work for you.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> > He has been running for 2 months now, I started him off slow and we've been working up distance. He's a year and 8 months right now. Does that seem like too much for him for his age? I always do forget how young he still is.... he acts all grown up. We run i'd say around 4 of those miles on grass and dirt. Before his breeder had passed away I asked her what age he could start running with me and she recommended a year old.
> ...


It's not 90 degrees, it's 75 max. We run very early in the morning. I also have never biked with him. I actually don't even own a bike. Yes I agree it's too much for him lol but that's not what I'm disagreeing with you about. All I'm saying is yes, it's hot but not that hot. (But may be too hot for his preference) Also we have worked up the distance, i didn't just start him off on 5 miles. And his paws are in good shape.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> > He's getting 35% protein, 50% fat. Should I be giving more carbs & less protein? I'm not currently giving him any supplements, ill have to look into those you mentioned. Is 5 miles really that far? Seems like nothing to me... I don't consider that really an athlete. Hmm.
> ...


Great! Thank you for the advice Jax, I had no idea about most of that! Is there's a particular brand of malodextrin you reccommend ?


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

I would be very concerned about exercise induced exhaustion. The symptoms or signs are similar to heat exhaustion, but it does not have to be hot to happen. If your dog is stopping then your exercise routine might be too much for him. Also, regardless of breed or pedigree, some dogs are more athletic and better runners than others, just like people. Some need more conditioning than others.

While 5 miles is not a far distance for a healthy GSD to run, most dogs can not keep up with a human conditioned to run for long periods. One of our handlers is a marathon runner, when he first came to the unit he was running his dog 4-5 miles everyday. A young GSD / Mal mix, high drive and super working dog that could not keep up. I had to make him stop running with his dog as it was negatively impacting our training. 

Recently, I was fortunate enough to attend a seminar on Canine conditioning for MWD's and LE K-9's. It was taught by some very high end MWD trainers and vets. One big take away was the amount of rest in between sets for the dog. It was like a doggy crossfit routine. The entire workout was 20 minutes and it took most of the dogs 4 weeks to get to that level of conditioning. One exercise would gas most dogs, Patrol and MWD's after a few minutes. I'm talking about high end working dogs here. 

If you are a "runner", please do not expect your dog to keep up with you for quite some time. I've biked my dogs for miles to increase endurance and stamina, but it is at their pace. Initially, my dog would go about 10 miles an hour, pulling the bike. A nice slow trot. After time he would slow and I would begin to peddle. I always monitor my dogs when working and if I see signs of fatigue or exhaustion the session is over. We find a cool place and I let them relax. Also, be careful when giving water, too much can be dangerous. 

Your dog is beautiful, I had a White GSD that I rescued years ago. One of the greatest dogs that I ever owned. Actually, when we describe dogs a "show line" refers to a dog of a particular style of breeding. It could be a WGSL or an American Show line(ASL). I would categorize your dog as a white GSD and not exactly a "Show line" dog. Just as a "working line" dog refers to pedigree and breeding. It can be a WGWL dog, a Czech WL dog, etc. The description is based on pedigree.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I am a trail marathon runner, and run with my dogs, but always off leash, and in areas with frequent access to cool creeks. When it is very hot, I might not take them very far, or maybe we'll just play in the river, but when it is 0 degrees F, the dogs could go all day. 

But, if I run them on leash on a warm day, I find their endurance drops dramatically. Dogs are meant to be "fartlek" runners. A funny word that means sprint and rest, sprint and rest. When they are off leash, they do this naturally- just watch what your dog does when he has his choice on pacing. On cooler days, a dog can canter for miles, but they are far more limited on hot days. 

This is why human runners could outrun animals- deer for example- under certain conditions. If the deer is continually pressed, even by a jogging human, the deer will eventually succumb to heat and die of exhaustion. Humans are special in that we can sweat to lose heat, and because of that we are some of the best long-distance heat runners in the animal kingdom. 

I'd try going out really early or late in the day, when it is cooler, or possibly going to off leash areas with water access (if gators aren't too big a risk?) Or just get a sprint-rest workout yourself, and change the way you are running.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I've often wondered how the sheep dogs out in Australia's outback do with the heat. I'm guessing, if you want a heat-tolerant dog, get a real Australian sheep dog. Those must be tough dogs to work all day at 100F plus and come back for more, week after week.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Slamdunc said:


> I would be very concerned about exercise induced exhaustion. The symptoms or signs are similar to heat exhaustion, but it does not have to be hot to happen. If your dog is stopping then your exercise routine might be too much for him. Also, regardless of breed or pedigree, some dogs are more athletic and better runners than others, just like people. Some need more conditioning than others.
> 
> While 5 miles is not a far distance for a healthy GSD to run, most dogs can not keep up with a human conditioned to run for long periods. One of our handlers is a marathon runner, when he first came to the unit he was running his dog 4-5 miles everyday. A young GSD / Mal mix, high drive and super working dog that could not keep up. I had to make him stop running with his dog as it was negatively impacting our training.
> 
> ...


Thank you slamdunc always appreciate your words of wisdom. First and foremost I want him to enjoy it, it's supposed to be fun for him and a good bonding activity!


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Muskeg said:


> I've often wondered how the sheep dogs out in Australia's outback do with the heat. I'm guessing, if you want a heat-tolerant dog, get a real Australian sheep dog. Those must be tough dogs to work all day at 100F plus and come back for more, week after week.


Is an Australian sheep dog the same breed as an "Aussie"? I've also heard good things about blue healers/cattle dog mixes, what do you think?


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I think what you'd want is an Australian kelpie, both for heat endurance and temperament.

http://www2.burradooranch.com/


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

FYI Aussies(Austalian Sheep Dogs) aren't Australian at all,lol.The cattle dogs and kelpies are.I've often wondered how those dogs manage in that environment also.Then there's the desert breeds that run down critters in that kind of heat.Seems they would scald their paws plus have a heat stroke:surprise:


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Muskeg said:


> I think what you'd want is an Australian kelpie, both for heat endurance and temperament.
> 
> http://www2.burradooranch.com/


Ah gotcha! Never heard of them before, very cute lol.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> I am a trail marathon runner, and run with my dogs, but always off leash, and in areas with frequent access to cool creeks. When it is very hot, I might not take them very far, or maybe we'll just play in the river, but when it is 0 degrees F, the dogs could go all day.
> 
> But, if I run them on leash on a warm day, I find their endurance drops dramatically. Dogs are meant to be "fartlek" runners. A funny word that means sprint and rest, sprint and rest. When they are off leash, they do this naturally- just watch what your dog does when he has his choice on pacing. On cooler days, a dog can canter for miles, but they are far more limited on hot days.
> 
> ...


I agree. I used to long distance run off road. Always on natural surfaces, always in the woods in the shade, always along a river bank or creek, and always off leash. I live in the NE and took summers off.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

@Muskeg

We are running on natural surfaces most of the miles right now, only a very short section through city. Very early in the morning as well, highest temperature is 75 F on our runs. Off leash is not an option right now, the trails are completely flooded.( I would love to leave him off leash in the city, I have no doubt he would obey but it's against the law.) We almost stepped on a water moccasin last time we went, my husband actually noticed right as we went over... luckily it didn't strike us but we were very fortunate. Creeks are also not an option, we have a lot of gators in this area and they are very opportunistic. In the fall when the trails dry out ill definetly be taking him back to the woods for more off leash. Also doesn't help he can't tolerate flea and tick meds so we have to avoid the woods for that reason in the summer as well. I hate sprinting, not something I'm willing to do.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

With 5 miles a day daily, I hope you're feeding him high protein diet? You feed raw right? You can always add fish oil/olive oil a tablespoon a day for his joints and coat


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Have you ever looked at Rhodesian ridgebacks? They were actually bred to hunt lions, so I would think they could handle the heat. They have good stamina and love to run. I had a RD mix that loved to run all the time. Of course, I haven't researched them too much, so you would have to see if they really do do well in the heat.

Otherwise, I think an Australian cattle dog or kelpie would be good for you. And it's true, Australian shepherds are not Australian! They sure picked a misleading name.

EDIT: Here is a bit on Rhodesian ridgebacks from Dogtime.com

"The Rhodesian Ridgeback, once known as the African Lion Hound, was developed in South Africa by Boer farmers. The farmers needed a versatile hunting dog who could withstand the extreme temperatures and terrain of the bush, survive when water rations were low, protect property, and be a companion to the entire family.
Read more at http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/rhodesian-ridgeback#isIpSSwAVfbbZIBA.99"


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Any breed of dog needs to be acclimated and conditioned to be able to work in the heat.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

McGloomy said:


> With 5 miles a day daily, I hope you're feeding him high protein diet? You feed raw right? You can always add fish oil/olive oil a tablespoon a day for his joints and coat


Yes he's on a high protein diet. No i cannot add fish oil. He gets safflower oil.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Pytheis said:


> Have you ever looked at Rhodesian ridgebacks? They were actually bred to hunt lions, so I would think they could handle the heat. They have good stamina and love to run. I had a RD mix that loved to run all the time. Of course, I haven't researched them too much, so you would have to see if they really do do well in the heat.
> 
> Otherwise, I think an Australian cattle dog or kelpie would be good for you. And it's true, Australian shepherds are not Australian! They sure picked a misleading name.
> 
> ...


Oh yes those are beautiful dogs! I've only seen one in person in my life and it was great. I really like the look of those cattle dogs and blue heelers though, honestly I've always wanted one. Love their personalities too, very energetic. Do you think they would be a good fit? Crazy that a dog could fight a lion... Gandalf met a Florida panther the other day and you should have seen every one of his hairs on his back stood up LOL


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Slamdunc said:


> Any breed of dog needs to be acclimated and conditioned to be able to work in the heat.


I've honestly tried my best. We started with longer walks, added in short runs and then walking, slowly started to increase the distance. Pretty much a c25k program. Also cranked our indoor temp way up so he would get more used to the heat and let him spend more time in the yard instead of all day indoors.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Oh yes those are beautiful dogs! I've only seen one in person in my life and it was great. I really like the look of those cattle dogs and blue heelers though, honestly I've always wanted one. Love their personalities too, very energetic. Do you think they would be a good fit? Crazy that a dog could fight a lion... Gandalf met a Florida panther the other day and you should have seen every one of his hairs on his back stood up LOL


So long as you do your research and get a dog from a good breeder (or a good rescue so that you know what you're getting), I think you should be okay with one. They are prone to fear issues though, in my experience and from what I've heard. They have mass amounts of energy and are very smart, a lot like German shepherds. If you have the time to commit to one, you should be good.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I had a ridgie mix. What she was mixed with I don't know. This was before pet dna testing. She was a fabulous dog! Great stamina, great temperament, super smart. The family that had her gave her up at two years old because she was too much for them. Turns out she only needed to be taught the rules of how to live with humans. They never knew the great dog she turned out to be.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Thanks for the insight on the other dog breeds y'all! How much do ridgebacks eat and how big do they get? Food costs will have to be a factor since we already spend so much on Gandalfs food. Speaking of Gandalfs food and weight I snapped this photo after he played in the pool today, his coat was wet so I could see his weight a little better. Goofy also kinda stacked his back leg naturally by himself LOL. I have a hard time telling since I look at him everyday, does he look like a good weight to you guys? He's 85 lbs right now, was 90, dropped down to 80 when we started running and I've been supplementing with extra food to get him back up a little. I really worry about his weight since we've been running so much, he's so active and unneutered still.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I've honestly tried my best. We started with longer walks, added in short runs and then walking, slowly started to increase the distance. Pretty much a c25k program. Also cranked our indoor temp way up so he would get more used to the heat and let him spend more time in the yard instead of all day indoors.


I wasn't referring to you in my response, I know you condition your dog. 

My point was any breed, Australian Cattle dog, Rhodesian Ridge Back, etc needs to be conditioned. Because a breed was originally bred to do a job, does not mean the dogs being bred in the US can do that job. A Rhodesian Ridge Back bred in the US may very well be a completely different dog than one bred to work in Africa. Just as the Australian Cattle Dog you see working is probably a much different dog than you would get here. Same goes for GSD's, the bulk of the GSD's that you see in the US or the Alsatian in England are far different than the true working line GSD's that you might find in Europe. Another very good example is the Labrador Retriever bred for working ability and the SL dogs or dogs bred for pets in the US. The vast majority of the labs bred in the US simply can't hunt, just as the vast majority of any AKC breed has lost it's working ability in the US. They simply can not do the job they were originally bred for. 

Excellent advice to be very careful which breeder you go to for Rhodesian Ridge Backs. That is great advice for any breed of dog.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You can look into taurine supplementing and the benefits.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Jenny720 said:


> You can look into taurine supplementing and the benefits.


Why? He is fed meat.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Raw fed dogs still can be taurine deficient may be possible with stamina issue or may not just a suggestion.


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## maggieDC (Mar 12, 2012)

*re: show lines and stamina*

First of all, Gandalf is not a purebred German Shepherd. Purebred German Shepherds do not have a fluffy coat nor do they have poofy tails. What you have is some kind of a mix with either husky or malamute or some other breed. I have always owned working Czech Shepherds who do not have the slanted back bred into them. A slanted back makes the German Shepherds back legs shorter and unable to run any distance without terrible pain. If you do NOT WAIT until a dog is 2 YEARS of AGE before taking the dog running you have caused abnormal growth in your dog that will never be corrected and shorten his lifespan. A dog NEVER should be run until he is age 2 because until age 2 his bones have not finished forming. The next thing, a white furred dog is very susceptible to skin cancer and also gets his skin sunburnt often, therefore they should not be out in the sun. Running a dog on asphalt or on the sidewalk and not something that has some give to it will cause your dog to get horrific shin splints (but dogs instinctively are protectors and will not show their pain until it makes it impossible for them to function). You must ease a dog into running on asphalt by running ¼ mile then taking 5-7 days for his body to recover from any injuries, then take him ½ a mile wait 5-7 days until his body heels, then a mile, then 5-7 days take him 1 ½ miles and wait 5-7 days then double it to 3 miles wait 5-7 days then 4 miles. Once you hit 4 miles you must wait 2 weeks of rest to allow your dogs injuries to heal and his body to adjust to the strain running has put on it. You will have no signs that your dog has shin splints. The most you could get from an injured dog would be to touch/put pressure with your hand and push with your thumb on the middle of his shin and work your way up your dogs shin- your dog will most likely pull his leg away depending on how dominate your dog is. Is your dog Alpha or are you Alpha? If you answer that you are Alpha, your dog will not pull his leg away from you because he does not want to disappoint you. After waiting the two weeks try putting on your running gear that you only wear when you are going running. You will see your dog go ballistic with excitement, jumping around and being obnoxious so you cannot forget to take him with you. It is silly and funny at the same time because your dog is telling you take me, take me! Easing your dog into running also slowly builds up his heart and lung capacity and stamina. I would then move up to 6 miles wait 5-7 days and then you can slowly add more miles to the run. If you are running your dog 4-8 miles or more you need to replace its electrolytes when the run is over. To do so safely purchase big bottles of PH Water and pour half of it into your dogs water bowl with his water. DO NOT FEED YOUR DOG UNTIL 30 MINUTES TO AN HOUR AFTER EXERCISE- NO MATTER WHAT. If you do not your dog will get Bloat and die before you could get him anywhere. As in less than 5 minutes. Your dog should sleep all day after a run of 4 miles because this is how his body heals- just like human bodies heal while we sleep/hit REM. If you are exercising your dog you must be feeding him the proper food- no preservatives- and stay away from fillers. I feed my dogs Wellness Super 5K Mix once they turn age 2 and thereafter. Before that they get Wellness Puppy Food. Go with the dry food because it cleans their teeth. You want to go with the Chicken & Fish always, NEVER FEED HIM TURKEY. Chicken and fish have L-Tryrosine in them which is the precursor for Dopamine and causes you and your dogs brains to naturally produce Dopamine- the chemical your brain produces when you feel on top of the world, alert, strong, confident etc.. Turkey contains L-Tryptophan, which is the precursor for Serotonin which makes you and your dogs brains naturally produce Serotonin which makes you want to sleep, feel like ****, depressed- all of the downs.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

maggieDC said:


> First of all, Gandalf is not a purebred German Shepherd. Purebred German Shepherds do not have a fluffy coat nor do they have poofy tails. What you have is some kind of a mix with either husky or malamute or some other breed. I have always owned working Czech Shepherds who do not have the slanted back bred into them. A slanted back makes the German Shepherds back legs shorter and unable to run any distance without terrible pain. If you do NOT WAIT until a dog is 2 YEARS of AGE before taking the dog running you have caused abnormal growth in your dog that will never be corrected and shorten his lifespan. A dog NEVER should be run until he is age 2 because until age 2 his bones have not finished forming. The next thing, a white furred dog is very susceptible to skin cancer and also gets his skin sunburnt often, therefore they should not be out in the sun. Running a dog on asphalt or on the sidewalk and not something that has some give to it will cause your dog to get horrific shin splints (but dogs instinctively are protectors and will not show their pain until it makes it impossible for them to function). You must ease a dog into running on asphalt by running ¼ mile then taking 5-7 days for his body to recover from any injuries, then take him ½ a mile wait 5-7 days until his body heels, then a mile, then 5-7 days take him 1 ½ miles and wait 5-7 days then double it to 3 miles wait 5-7 days then 4 miles. Once you hit 4 miles you must wait 2 weeks of rest to allow your dogs injuries to heal and his body to adjust to the strain running has put on it. You will have no signs that your dog has shin splints. The most you could get from an injured dog would be to touch/put pressure with your hand and push with your thumb on the middle of his shin and work your way up your dogs shin- your dog will most likely pull his leg away depending on how dominate your dog is. Is your dog Alpha or are you Alpha? If you answer that you are Alpha, your dog will not pull his leg away from you because he does not want to disappoint you. After waiting the two weeks try putting on your running gear that you only wear when you are going running. You will see your dog go ballistic with excitement, jumping around and being obnoxious so you cannot forget to take him with you. It is silly and funny at the same time because your dog is telling you take me, take me! Easing your dog into running also slowly builds up his heart and lung capacity and stamina. I would then move up to 6 miles wait 5-7 days and then you can slowly add more miles to the run. If you are running your dog 4-8 miles or more you need to replace its electrolytes when the run is over. To do so safely purchase big bottles of PH Water and pour half of it into your dogs water bowl with his water. DO NOT FEED YOUR DOG UNTIL 30 MINUTES TO AN HOUR AFTER EXERCISE- NO MATTER WHAT. If you do not your dog will get Bloat and die before you could get him anywhere. As in less than 5 minutes. Your dog should sleep all day after a run of 4 miles because this is how his body heals- just like human bodies heal while we sleep/hit REM. If you are exercising your dog you must be feeding him the proper food- no preservatives- and stay away from fillers. I feed my dogs Wellness Super 5K Mix once they turn age 2 and thereafter. Before that they get Wellness Puppy Food. Go with the dry food because it cleans their teeth. You want to go with the Chicken & Fish always, NEVER FEED HIM TURKEY. Chicken and fish have L-Tryrosine in them which is the precursor for Dopamine and causes you and your dogs brains to naturally produce Dopamine- the chemical your brain produces when you feel on top of the world, alert, strong, confident etc.. Turkey contains L-Tryptophan, which is the precursor for Serotonin which makes you and your dogs brains naturally produce Serotonin which makes you want to sleep, feel like ****, depressed- all of the downs.


Gandalf is in fact a purebred GSD. Have you never seen a long coat german shepherd before? Yes, they exist. Yes, even the best breeders occasionally have long coated dogs. Also, he is a white German shepherd, so no husky or malamute in him.

There is much more for me to comment on in your post, but I don't have the energy or the time. Please stick around the forum. There is much to learn.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

maggieDC said:


> First of all, Gandalf is not a purebred German Shepherd. Purebred German Shepherds do not have a fluffy coat nor do they have poofy tails. What you have is some kind of a mix with either husky or malamute or some other breed. I have always owned working Czech Shepherds who do not have the slanted back bred into them. A slanted back makes the German Shepherds back legs shorter and unable to run any distance without terrible pain. If you do NOT WAIT until a dog is 2 YEARS of AGE before taking the dog running you have caused abnormal growth in your dog that will never be corrected and shorten his lifespan. A dog NEVER should be run until he is age 2 because until age 2 his bones have not finished forming. The next thing, a white furred dog is very susceptible to skin cancer and also gets his skin sunburnt often, therefore they should not be out in the sun. Running a dog on asphalt or on the sidewalk and not something that has some give to it will cause your dog to get horrific shin splints (but dogs instinctively are protectors and will not show their pain until it makes it impossible for them to function). You must ease a dog into running on asphalt by running ¼ mile then taking 5-7 days for his body to recover from any injuries, then take him ½ a mile wait 5-7 days until his body heels, then a mile, then 5-7 days take him 1 ½ miles and wait 5-7 days then double it to 3 miles wait 5-7 days then 4 miles. Once you hit 4 miles you must wait 2 weeks of rest to allow your dogs injuries to heal and his body to adjust to the strain running has put on it. You will have no signs that your dog has shin splints. The most you could get from an injured dog would be to touch/put pressure with your hand and push with your thumb on the middle of his shin and work your way up your dogs shin- your dog will most likely pull his leg away depending on how dominate your dog is. Is your dog Alpha or are you Alpha? If you answer that you are Alpha, your dog will not pull his leg away from you because he does not want to disappoint you. After waiting the two weeks try putting on your running gear that you only wear when you are going running. You will see your dog go ballistic with excitement, jumping around and being obnoxious so you cannot forget to take him with you. It is silly and funny at the same time because your dog is telling you take me, take me! Easing your dog into running also slowly builds up his heart and lung capacity and stamina. I would then move up to 6 miles wait 5-7 days and then you can slowly add more miles to the run. If you are running your dog 4-8 miles or more you need to replace its electrolytes when the run is over. To do so safely purchase big bottles of PH Water and pour half of it into your dogs water bowl with his water. DO NOT FEED YOUR DOG UNTIL 30 MINUTES TO AN HOUR AFTER EXERCISE- NO MATTER WHAT. If you do not your dog will get Bloat and die before you could get him anywhere. As in less than 5 minutes. Your dog should sleep all day after a run of 4 miles because this is how his body heals- just like human bodies heal while we sleep/hit REM. If you are exercising your dog you must be feeding him the proper food- no preservatives- and stay away from fillers. I feed my dogs Wellness Super 5K Mix once they turn age 2 and thereafter. Before that they get Wellness Puppy Food. Go with the dry food because it cleans their teeth. You want to go with the Chicken & Fish always, NEVER FEED HIM TURKEY. Chicken and fish have L-Tryrosine in them which is the precursor for Dopamine and causes you and your dogs brains to naturally produce Dopamine- the chemical your brain produces when you feel on top of the world, alert, strong, confident etc.. Turkey contains L-Tryptophan, which is the precursor for Serotonin which makes you and your dogs brains naturally produce Serotonin which makes you want to sleep, feel like ****, depressed- all of the downs.


Sorry I just stopped at the first sentence i can't stop laughing lol. Maybe I should take Gandalf over to the wolf dog forum??? Just so much bad information.
Edit: this user is now harassing me in PMs too lol..


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

maggieDC said:


> First of all, Gandalf is not a purebred German Shepherd. Purebred German Shepherds do not have a fluffy coat nor do they have poofy tails. What you have is some kind of a mix with either husky or malamute or some other breed. I have always owned working Czech Shepherds who do not have the slanted back bred into them. A slanted back makes the German Shepherds back legs shorter and unable to run any distance without terrible pain. If you do NOT WAIT until a dog is 2 YEARS of AGE before taking the dog running you have caused abnormal growth in your dog that will never be corrected and shorten his lifespan. A dog NEVER should be run until he is age 2 because until age 2 his bones have not finished forming. The next thing, a white furred dog is very susceptible to skin cancer and also gets his skin sunburnt often, therefore they should not be out in the sun. Running a dog on asphalt or on the sidewalk and not something that has some give to it will cause your dog to get horrific shin splints (but dogs instinctively are protectors and will not show their pain until it makes it impossible for them to function). You must ease a dog into running on asphalt by running ¼ mile then taking 5-7 days for his body to recover from any injuries, then take him ½ a mile wait 5-7 days until his body heels, then a mile, then 5-7 days take him 1 ½ miles and wait 5-7 days then double it to 3 miles wait 5-7 days then 4 miles. Once you hit 4 miles you must wait 2 weeks of rest to allow your dogs injuries to heal and his body to adjust to the strain running has put on it. You will have no signs that your dog has shin splints. The most you could get from an injured dog would be to touch/put pressure with your hand and push with your thumb on the middle of his shin and work your way up your dogs shin- your dog will most likely pull his leg away depending on how dominate your dog is. Is your dog Alpha or are you Alpha? If you answer that you are Alpha, your dog will not pull his leg away from you because he does not want to disappoint you. After waiting the two weeks try putting on your running gear that you only wear when you are going running. You will see your dog go ballistic with excitement, jumping around and being obnoxious so you cannot forget to take him with you. It is silly and funny at the same time because your dog is telling you take me, take me! Easing your dog into running also slowly builds up his heart and lung capacity and stamina. I would then move up to 6 miles wait 5-7 days and then you can slowly add more miles to the run. If you are running your dog 4-8 miles or more you need to replace its electrolytes when the run is over. To do so safely purchase big bottles of PH Water and pour half of it into your dogs water bowl with his water. DO NOT FEED YOUR DOG UNTIL 30 MINUTES TO AN HOUR AFTER EXERCISE- NO MATTER WHAT. If you do not your dog will get Bloat and die before you could get him anywhere. As in less than 5 minutes. Your dog should sleep all day after a run of 4 miles because this is how his body heals- just like human bodies heal while we sleep/hit REM. If you are exercising your dog you must be feeding him the proper food- no preservatives- and stay away from fillers. I feed my dogs Wellness Super 5K Mix once they turn age 2 and thereafter. Before that they get Wellness Puppy Food. Go with the dry food because it cleans their teeth. You want to go with the Chicken & Fish always, NEVER FEED HIM TURKEY. Chicken and fish have L-Tryrosine in them which is the precursor for Dopamine and causes you and your dogs brains to naturally produce Dopamine- the chemical your brain produces when you feel on top of the world, alert, strong, confident etc.. Turkey contains L-Tryptophan, which is the precursor for Serotonin which makes you and your dogs brains naturally produce Serotonin which makes you want to sleep, feel like ****, depressed- all of the downs.



Wow!! :surprise: 

Please be a bit less "knowledgeable" in your comments. Making suggestions is one thing. Being a "know it all" is very insulting and will be taken as such. 



ADMIN


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

maggieDC said:


> Chicken and fish have L-Tryrosine in them which is the precursor for Dopamine and causes you and your dogs brains to naturally produce Dopamine- the chemical your brain produces when you feel on top of the world, alert, strong, confident etc.. Turkey contains L-Tryptophan, which is the precursor for Serotonin which makes you and your dogs brains naturally produce Serotonin which makes you want to sleep, feel like ****, depressed- all of the downs.



Um no, Dopamine is the brain chemical that gives us the excitement of the hunt, the novel. It is what make seeking pleasurable. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes us comfortable with the familiar. 

I recently heard this on a podcast highlighting the book _The Molecule of More: How a Single-Chemical in Your Brain Drives Love, Sex and Creativity _

As far as white or long haired GSDs not being pure bred, wrong again. Those may be called a fault in shows but that doesn't make them mixed breeds. 

And take a breath between thoughts. Egads.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Sorry I just stopped at the first sentence i can't stop laughing lol. Maybe I should take Gandalf over to the wolf dog forum??? Just so much bad information.
> Edit: this user is now harassing me in PMs too lol..


yeah, it was a doozy. lol


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Uh, maybe it's time to switch from high octane coffee to something else...chamomile maybe?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I always suspected my Czech coatie was an impostor.


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