# Lillie was attacked this morning



## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Wasn't sure whether to put this in Agression or not, mods
move if you want.

Preface this by saying I'm fine, I think Lillie is fine, but she was attacked by a loose pit bull this morning. She's at the vets as an overabundance of caution to get chest films to make sure her lungs are okay after the blunt force trauma. And I'm sorry, but after all my years of support for pit bulls I think my views have irrevocably changed. This dog was intent on killing her. The only reason he didn't is a contractor working nearby raced his truck over, pulled out about an 8 foot long 2X4, and brought it down with all his might on the pit. It stopped him. Yes, a police report was made. The dog had no collar or tags though, so remains to be seen if an owner can be found.

I tried with all my might to kick off the dog, but I couldn't protect my
poor Lillie, and that makes me very sad.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

What a nightmare!! I am so glad your girl survived!! Thank goodness for the wonderful man who came to your rescue. Post an update about your girl when you know more. I'm so glad you weren't physically attacked too!!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That's terrible. I hope your dog is alright.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> This dog was intent on killing her.


sadly this is how many pits are
they say that a pit might not start the fight but it will finish it
this is what they were bred to do and you can raise em right and all kinda stuff but the base instinct is there


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

The only way I was able to break up pits attacking/fighting was with water. They hate water. I suppose if desperate I would try a choke hold. Pits are not my favorite. I've seen very nice ones attack in a fraction of a second. 

What happened to you is one of my worst fears. I;m very sorry it happened. I hope your dog is ok.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> sadly this is how many pits are
> they say that a pit might not start the fight but it will finish it
> this is what they were bred to do and you can raise em right and all kinda stuff but the base instinct is there


This is so true. My raised one from a puppy. One of our female pits had puppies with our golden retriever. (My parents dogs). He had only been with us and he would growl at people if I took him for a walk. He also ripped the golden's face apart. We never trained that dog to fight or be aggressive. It was just in him. I don't trust that breed at all.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

trcy said:


> The only way I was able to break up pits attacking/fighting was with water. They hate water. I suppose if desperate I would try a choke hold. Pits are not my favorite. I've seen very nice ones attack in a fraction of a second.
> 
> What happened to you is one of my worst fears. I;m very sorry it happened. I hope your dog is ok.


They don't all hate water, my dads pit loves water more then my golden. I wouldn't count on water to stop a pit bull, you were very lucky it worked. I would look at the stick they sell to open the jaws or pepper spray. I would much rather take my dog to the vet for pepper spray in the eyes over puncture wounds everywhere.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh no!! I'm so sorry! And am so glad it sounds like you will both be okay. I completely understand the helpless feeling. Felt the same way after Cafall's attack. We'll be keeping you both in our thoughts.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Lillie is home, lungs showed clear on x-ray, but she is really
"ouchy" and the vet sent us home with pain meds and anti-inflams.
She shrinks away from my hand when I run it down her back, at 
one point the dog had her pinned on the asphalt and I think she hurts
from that. We are both going to just try and relax and recover now.
It could have been a lot worse after all.

Thank you all for the kind words, it helps!


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

There is nothing wrong with pitbulls. It's part of the breed description for the UKC APBT. And it should not change your option of the breed. 

Border Collies are bred for herding.
German Shepherds are bred for their ability to protect.
Pit bulls have been bred to fight other dogs, it's in their genes. Is it a trait I believe they should continue to allow, no I personally don't. But there are many people within the breed that do not agree with me.

Unfortunately it means that people that decide to own the breed need to be aware of this characteristic and be progressive in not allowing things like this to happen.

Last fall I had my pit mix out for a walk and we too were attacked by a pit. This dog had one goal in mind and it was to chew my dog to pieces. My dog however did not defend himself. His only goal was escape. It took 5 people to get this dog under control (one thing to note is that this dog didn't have any interest in the ppl around, just my dog) and I am pretty sure someone came out with a 2x4 and hit the dog. All the ppl that came out said this was not the first incident for the dog and because of this I filed a formal complaint. The dog was eventually PTS. IMO this whole thing could have been prevented. The owners knew the dogs history and should have been doing everything in their power to keep this dog indoors...they did not, in turn failing this dog.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

valb said:


> Wasn't sure whether to put this in Agression or not, mods
> move if you want.
> 
> Preface this by saying I'm fine, I think Lillie is fine, but she was attacked by a loose pit bull this morning. She's at the vets as an overabundance of caution to get chest films to make sure her lungs are okay after the blunt force trauma. And I'm sorry, but after all my years of support for pit bulls I think my views have irrevocably changed. This dog was intent on killing her. The only reason he didn't is a contractor working nearby raced his truck over, pulled out about an 8 foot long 2X4, and brought it down with all his might on the pit. It stopped him. Yes, a police report was made. The dog had no collar or tags though, so remains to be seen if an owner can be found.
> ...


OMG! That is a scary incident! I hope you and Lillie make a full recovery. We have many loose dogs around our area and this is a big concern for me also. One of those appears to be a pit mix and he has been loose as the owners fence is a crappy wood picket falling apart. He is vicious with my dog also. I carry one of those telescoping metal batons. 

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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear that! Glad it's nothing serious like internal bleeding that kind of a thing... I would love to know who the **** this pit belonged to! I feel bad for the pit actually, because the owners if it ever had them did not care for it properly. If the owners knew it had rogue aggression they should have had it destroyed. Makes me angry ppl who let their pets roam the street like that. Anything could happen! Like what Hapenned to your Lillie. Sorry :-(


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

so glad you guys are okay! the same thing happened to me with my old black lab, the owner of the pit literally cracked a 3" tree branch across the pits head and he let go for just a second so i could kick him off. ill never own a pit. and i will always be on guard around them


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm so glad to hear Lillie is doing well! I am so sorry this happened to you. It is something very scary to go through. Big hugs to both of you.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

How horrifying! I'm glad you're both okay. :hugs:


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Glad she is doing well. She will recovery physically, but make sure you help her recover mentally as well. 

Get her out around non threatening dogs, give her lots of positive experiences, don't allow her to retreat into her fear, if she has any after this incident. She may also get over defensive, so be proactive. 


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

no there is nothing wrong with pits i actually enjoy the breed but you cannot trust them around other dogs
their owners have to be ultra careful with them due to that and apparently so many dont get that!!

valb did the vet give you anything for pain for your dog?
my old gal got attacked a few yrs back and the next day could barely move she was so sore
we forget dogs bruise because we cannot see it under the fur but she is probably all bruised up and will be sore for the next few days anyway
poor babe


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Hoping for a speedy recovery. How terrifying.

I am not a fan of pits but my son loves them He had one that had to be PTS due to aggression issues. He still loves them but will be honest and say they are not the dog for everyone. Unfortunately they are/were quite in vogue and now there are so many pits and pit crosses. I think with proper breeding and in the right hands they can be great dogs. 

In the wrong hands....deadly.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Pits*



my boy diesel said:


> no there is nothing wrong with pits i actually enjoy the breed but you cannot trust them around other dogs
> their owners have to be ultra careful with them due to that and apparently so many dont get that!!
> 
> valb did the vet give you anything for pain for your dog?
> ...


I had at one point my sailor, a toy poodle, and a pit in my house. (Pit was a foster). The poodle who was the alpha go figure ha... Got into a fight with the pit bull, but it was more the pit tried to attack the poodle and obviously because of the size you can guess what would have HAPPENNED. I couldn't break them up in time but luckily sailor ran to the dog fight and bit the pit in the back to get them to let go. I was really scared though for my poodle, I'm so thankful sailor was there to break it up since I couldn't run as fast as him.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

gsdsar said:


> Glad she is doing well. She will recovery physically, but make sure you help her recover mentally as well.
> 
> Get her out around non threatening dogs, give her lots of positive experiences, don't allow her to retreat into her fear, if she has any after this incident. She may also get over defensive, so be proactive.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reminder. It's interesting, my neighbor just got
a guide dog career change dog, and we did a couple of off
site meet-ups on neutral territory. Very sweet small young 
golden. We wanted a safe off leash place so we went to
a dog park. I don't like them and don't make it a habit to go
but they both did fine, and Lillie was fine with the golden and
all the others. (She's been to day care several times, too)
I don't need to take her back to a dog park but hopefully she
will be able to walk side by side with my neighbor and the golden.

I am a BIT concerned, but I will do my best to make her 
comfortable with other dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sorry. I hope Lillie feels better soon. 

This is why, when people own pit bulls, and other formidable dogs, I am so irritatingly harsh about keeping them contained, not allowing for accidents where the brat lets the dog rush out of the house, etc. And if cops shoot them, oh well! People have to do better with owning these dogs. They can't afford to say, "accidents happen." Their accident almost cost your dog its life -- if the thing is not just a stray. 

Ok, my rant isn't helping.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm glad both of you are ok and hope she recovers quickly. I agree with being proactive and getting her around safe dogs soon, even just on leash quiet walks to remind her that not all dogs are bad


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

So sorry your Lillie was attacked. I'm glad that construction worker was around.


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## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

One dogs attack does not mean the entire breed is bad. That is the same kind of thinking that is pushing legislation to ban German shepherds as well as other breeds of large dogs. How can you judge an entire breed because some stray dog that clearly doesn't have a good owner attacked your dog? How about all the pit bulls you have encountered in your life that didn't attack your dog? Do they not count now? 

***** comments removed by ADMIN. Let's please leave race and comparisons to people out of these discussions. They don't belong. *****

Bite statistics are not calculated correctly. They list them as a yearly total but what they don't tell you is the population of the individual breeds who did the biting. Insurance companies have done studies that show that Golden cocker spaniels actually bite more people than any other breed. If you look at the overall population of pit bulls you would see that a VERY tiny portion of the population bites people and animals. It's certainly not the big problem the media would have you believe. 

Irresponsible owners tend to gravitate towards certain breeds, but that doesn't make it the dogs fault. The dogs are just as much as a victim; they were neglected and not taught how to live in this world, much like our forgotten youths in our poorer communities. Blaming the victims does nothing to help the future.


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## Alice13 (Feb 21, 2014)

I am so sorry for both you and lillie. I have always been wary of pitbulls since one mauled a jogger in my country to death. The jogger has been using the same route for 20 years and this pitbull belongs to one of the houses along that route. Ever since this incident and of course also because of others before it they are banned in my country.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Marilyn.Lambert said:


> One dogs attack does not mean the entire breed is bad. That is the same kind of thinking that is pushing legislation to ban German shepherds as well as other breeds of large dogs. How can you judge an entire breed because some stray dog that clearly doesn't have a good owner attacked your dog? How about all the pit bulls you have encountered in your life that didn't attack your dog? Do they not count now?
> 
> Bite statistics are not calculated correctly. They list them as a yearly total but what they don't tell you is the population of the individual breeds who did the biting. Insurance companies have done studies that show that Golden cocker spaniels actually bite more people than any other breed. If you look at the overall population of pit bulls you would see that a VERY tiny portion of the population bites people and animals. It's certainly not the big problem the media would have you believe.
> 
> Irresponsible owners tend to gravitate towards certain breeds, but that doesn't make it the dogs fault. The dogs are just as much as a victim; they were neglected and not taught how to live in this world, much like our forgotten youths in our poorer communities. Blaming the victims does nothing to help the future.


I know what you're saying Marilyn, but again, I'm sorry. You can't know
the years I have fought online in support of pit bulls in various forums.
I'm trying to make myself feel differently but at this point it's not 
happening. You weren't there to see the attack or hear my dog's
terrible screams and it just changes things, it really does.

Do you know right after the attack what I brought foremost to my
mind was Rufus, the pit bull therapy dog. I even told the witnesses
to Google it and watch the video. I tried, tried TRIED to let that
be the dominating thought/picture. Maybe after time has passed.

Lillie had a quiet night, every time I checked her she was sleeping
peacefully on her bed. This morning she happily ate her breakfast
and although she's still pretty subdued, roused herself enough for a
tiny bit of play with her little kitty brother.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

yep it does change things. my dog was in a fight with a pit twice. there were no injuries but now every time I see a pit my first reaction is negative. then I remind myself of the 3 nice pits that I know. then I remember that two of them are toy and food aggressive. then I remember that so is my dog towards some dogs. 

so yeah it takes some work to remain neutral


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Just think some ppl see you walking down the street with a GSD and cringe in fear. Dog breed biases are not fair. I've had a bully mix. Had my dog attacked by one. I've witnessed the damage if a dog fight...and still pits and their mixes will always have a spot in my heart. Then again, I love the under dog of any situation.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

They're not fair but the worst experiences I had were with a pit. As I said, I try to control my thinking, I'm just describing what goes on in my head when I see one. 
And I know some people cringe, they also cross the street and avoid us in all possible ways. That's ok, I go outside to train and play so it doesn't bother me.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm very sorry that you were attacked. Thankfully the construction worker was there and able to prevent further injury to you or Lillie. Hoping for a speedy recovery for Lillie.


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## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

valb said:


> I know what you're saying Marilyn, but again, I'm sorry. You can't know
> the years I have fought online in support of pit bulls in various forums.
> I'm trying to make myself feel differently but at this point it's not
> happening. You weren't there to see the attack or hear my dog's
> ...


I have been attacked by 3 different pit bulls and I have scars from it. Have you ever been attacked by a dog yourself? 

I train dogs, so I am around the worst of the worst; I never blame the dog. The dog always has a story to tell about how it got to that place. I am lucky that I am dealing with the owners, so I get to know the background on the dogs that I am working with. 
Having understanding allows you to have forgiveness. This is something you don't have, because you don't know this dog's background. 

One should be able to assume by the dogs behavior that it was unsocialized, so it was probably locked up, or chained up for long periods of time alone. Based on the attack you may have even encountered a dog that had been trained to fight. 
Both of these scenarios are abusive, and potentially led to the dog's ill fated choice to attack your dog. It's still not his fault though; he is a man made creation brought into this world without his consent, and was abused and neglected. To top it off, after his crappy life now he will probably killed for his mistake. 
It's tragic because everyone is a victim in this situation. But when you blame all pit bulls you put the lives of thousands of dogs at risk from breed discrimination, And in the long run you could also be putting yours at risk because GSD's are climbing the ranks of the BSL lists. 

I am sorry this happened to you but if you want to blame someone blame the owners.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Marilyn, you have every right to your opinion, but THIS THREAD is not an appropriate place for your campaign against pit bull bias, so please - just stop. 

The OP has just had a traumatic experience where she feared for the safety of herself and her dog, and it's incredibly insensitive to bash her for the experience having changed her feelings towards the breed. This was a brutal attack that could have ended very badly. Whether it's because the dog is inherently bad, or was bred to be that way doesn't really matter. She has the right to her feelings just as much as you do.

You already have a thread about pit bull discrimination, please use that instead.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Marilyn.Lambert said:


> One should be able to assume by the dogs behavior that it was unsocialized, so it was probably locked up, or chained up for long periods of time alone. Based on the attack you may have even encountered a dog that had been trained to fight.
> Both of these scenarios are abusive, and potentially led to the dog's ill fated choice to attack your dog. It's still not his fault though; he is a man made creation brought into this world without his consent, and was abused and neglected. To top it off, after his crappy life now he will probably killed for his mistake.
> It's tragic because everyone is a victim in this situation. But when you blame all pit bulls you put the lives of thousands of dogs at risk from breed discrimination, And in the long run you could also be putting yours at risk because GSD's are climbing the ranks of the BSL lists.
> 
> I am sorry this happened to you but if you want to blame someone blame the owners.


Couldn't disagree more. You really believe that the majority of pit bulls that attack are because they were taught to fight or they were chained up all day? I find that very hard to believe.

It's the owners fault that a dangerous dog was allowed to roam and was unsupervised, but some dogs are just hardwired wrong. All the training in the world isn't going to change a dog's natural instincts. Generally, a dog is who it is because of it's genetics.


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## Marilyn.Lambert (Jul 29, 2014)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Marilyn, you have every right to your opinion, but THIS THREAD is not an appropriate place for your campaign against pit bull bias, so please - just stop.
> 
> The OP has just had a traumatic experience where she feared for the safety of herself and her dog, and it's incredibly insensitive to bash her for the experience having changed her feelings towards the breed. This was a brutal attack that could have ended very badly. Whether it's because the dog is inherently bad, or was bred to be that way doesn't really matter. She has the right to her feelings just as much as you do.
> 
> You already have a thread about pit bull discrimination, please use that instead.


I was not bashing her so please don't be so dramatic. If my post was taken offensively by the OP than I apologize as that was not my intention. I created my thread after I made the initial post because I realized that it would derail her original thread. After that I only responded to her post. Regardless I will point out discrimination where I see it. If you want to delete my post, that is your right and I can't stop you. Forums are always up the discretion of the moderators who run them, so do whatever you want.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Valb Im so sorry that Lillie was attacked.I hope she recovers quickly mentally and continues to to be able to experience the full life you want to share w/ her.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

jafo220 said:


> OMG! That is a scary incident! I hope you and Lillie make a full recovery. We have many loose dogs around our area and this is a big concern for me also. One of those appears to be a pit mix and he has been loose as the owners fence is a crappy wood picket falling apart. He is vicious with my dog also. I carry one of those telescoping metal batons.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Are they legal in your state? I bought one and found out they're illegal here. Sucks.


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## smgs92 (Jun 3, 2014)

Marilyn.Lambert said:


> One dogs attack does not mean the entire breed is bad. That is the same kind of thinking that is pushing legislation to ban German shepherds as well as other breeds of large dogs. How can you judge an entire breed because some stray dog that clearly doesn't have a good owner attacked your dog? How about all the pit bulls you have encountered in your life that didn't attack your dog? Do they not count now?
> 
> 
> Bite statistics are not calculated correctly. They list them as a yearly total but what they don't tell you is the population of the individual breeds who did the biting. Insurance companies have done studies that show that Golden cocker spaniels actually bite more people than any other breed. If you look at the overall population of pit bulls you would see that a VERY tiny portion of the population bites people and animals. It's certainly not the big problem the media would have you believe.
> ...


Simply because pit bulls do not have the highest number of bites statistically, does not mean they are not more dangerous. They were bred specifically for fighting and this gene is in them. They know how to fight and they fight to the death which is very different from most breeds. 
I'm sorry to the OP I've seen pit bull fights at the dog park and they're vicious and a breed i will never trust. I hope your girl gets better soon.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Checking back in to see how you and Lillie are doing today. Hope you are both feeling better.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Thanks Lilie, we are both sore but okay, and yay we both
have meds! We didn't do our morning walk today, but we'll
be right back out there tomorrow.

Talked to AC, the owners surrendered the INTACT MALE
dog, and to quote AC (the owners): "Have had problems
with him before". He is to be euth'd. Now it is a wait for the
police report. Not sure what charges will be filed but my
city does have an ordinance requiring all pits to be spayed or
neutered. So they are in violation of that if not for restrictions
re: previous "problems".


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't know if this will work, but I was once told by a very experienced dog owner/breeder, if you can't break up a dog fight - it has gone into red zone, to either grab a stick or use your finger and insert up the bottom of the one attacking. Not sure if I could do this (yuck) but apparently the shock of this is enough to stop the dog, giving you time to grab the collar or wrap your lead around its neck to secure it somewhere. 

I feel sorry for you and Lillie, this must have one so frightening. Hope Lillie is doing well


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

valb said:


> .
> 
> Talked to AC, the owners surrendered the INTACT MALE
> dog, and to quote AC (the owners): "Have had problems
> ...


Personally, that just adds insult to injury. I really don't care what the
breed is. The owners were well aware that their dog was a problem. 

It really angers me that you and Lillie have to suffer because of their obvious neglect of responsibilities. 

I hope both of you are feeling better. My daughter is going to school to become a massage therapist. She wants to specialize in (human)accident victims etc. When my Lacy was ill, she did some sort of slow methodical massage on him. At first he was a bit hesitant, but after a few moments he totally relaxed and truly seemed to enjoy it. Might be something you'd might like to look into. If not for Lillie, but maybe for yourself!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I hope you're both feeling better too, what a horrible thing to happen! I agree with Lilie, I have no patience left for these types of owners. In fact, just for fun, I let my eyes glaze over and read your quote posted above as: the owner was to be euth'd. Only in my dreams, sigh.


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

I think owners (regardless of breed) should be put down for a second offense attack.

I had to get stitches in my hand once after an ex girl friend's inlaws rot attacked their other family dog..... They said it was the 5th time that's happened. I think they should be put down, how stupid do you gotta be to think, well it happened 4 other times, it'll never happen again.
I had my concealed carry piece in my waistbelt and had that been my dog in the rott's jaws that rot would have been laid to rest right then and there.

Glad you and your pup are fine!


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

Harry and Lola said:


> to either grab a stick or use your finger and insert up the bottom of the one attacking. Not sure if I could do this (yuck)


I've heard that or grab their back legs and just drag them backwards.. I've never tried either. In the attack I mentioned above I ended up putting the dog in a choke hold till she passed out. (138# rot)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would never put a dog down for inter-pack aggression. If I raised a dog and it just couldn't get along with another dog in my pack, I would manage the situation, and yes, people can get injured when two dogs fight. But it is up to us to manage dogs in our household. 

Aggression toward people or dogs outside the family is a different story. I don't know if I would put a dog down for being dog aggressive. There seems like so much you can do to manage that situation as well. But when people do not manage it, you have situations like this one. Pits should not be put down for dog aggression because it is to be expected really. People who obtain a pit bull should understand when they get it that it is a possibility and they should be prepared to manage the dog. No accidents. 

I mean, if your Irish Setter came rushing out at another dog, out of the blue -- different story. That is not necessarily something the breed is known for, and the owners can be legitimately shocked. Not so with pits. 

So it is totally the owner's fault, and now the dog is dead or going to be put down because it got landed with stupid, irresponsible owners. 

The people who should be really angry at the owners are owners of other pits, then owners of other types of formidable dogs, then dog owners in general. Because this kind of stuff has an effect on all of us. Not just because we can't walk down the street without being attacked, but because we have discrimination in housing and insurance, and at the farmers market when all the little dogs are there, no problem -- but once someone brings a GSD or a pit bull, the very next week you will see signs saying, "no dogs." It affects all of us really, dog owners need to stop being so careless with dogs that can do serious damage.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

selzer said:


> I would never put a dog down for inter-pack aggression. If I raised a dog and it just couldn't get along with another dog in my pack, I would manage the situation, and yes, people can get injured when two dogs fight. But it is up to us to manage dogs in our household.
> 
> Aggression toward people or dogs outside the family is a different story. I don't know if I would put a dog down for being dog aggressive. There seems like so much you can do to manage that situation as well. But when people do not manage it, you have situations like this one. Pits should not be put down for dog aggression because it is to be expected really. People who obtain a pit bull should understand when they get it that it is a possibility and they should be prepared to manage the dog. No accidents.
> 
> ...


I think they were suggesting euthanizing the "owners" not the dog, lol 

OP, I hope you and Lillie are feeling better!


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Thanks Nigel, doing better and grateful it is not so
fresh and is passing almost into 'history' for me.

Cooked up some chicken breast for Lillie, and the last 
few mornings when she sees another dog, she gets treats,
hoping to get better association for her. I detect no difference
in her manner with other dogs, though. Yesterday morning
we stopped to talk with a friend who walks two dogs (we
were a ways away across a street) but after a few minutes,
Lillie laid down beside me with her head on her front paws.
(Come ON Mom, this is boring!) So that's good.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm so sorry this happened. I hope Lillie can recover and have some positive experiences with other dogs.

I currently have a small pit mix and one of my best friend's beagle was attacked by a loose pit bull two years ago. The dog was running loose and climbed over their fence to attack the beagle while the family was having dinner in the yard. She lost a leg and then later died of her injuries. This is still very traumatic for my friends so I "hide" my pit mix anytime they come over. I am not pro or anti-pitbull (or any breed, really), I just have dogs that fit my pack and my lifestyle (right now two GSDs and two rescue mixes). I have no desire to campaign in favor of pits nor do I have anything to prove or disprove with my dogs. I recognize that the attack was emotionally painful for my friends and that they lost their dog, so I try to be sensitive to that and I keep my pit mix out of sight until they are ready to see her again (sometimes some of the kids will want to see her and play with her). Likewise I would not invite a guest over who had just returned from combat and then expect him/her to sit through a firework show or go to a gun range with me if they had some trauma from combat. There is "hating the deed not the breed" and then there is just common sense and compassion.


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

Nigel said:


> I think they were suggesting euthanizing the "owners" not the dog, lol


Yes. The owner not the dog. 
and in reference to my comment that the rot would have been put down then and there if it was my dog is more situational for that dog. It was intent on killing the other dog it was attacking. the fight only ended when the owner knocked the rot out, and then they pried the little dog out of her jaws, (keep in mind: 5th offense each time the same, rot tries to kill).


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

valb said:


> Thanks Nigel, doing better and grateful it is not so
> fresh and is passing almost into 'history' for me.
> 
> Cooked up some chicken breast for Lillie, and the last
> ...


Thats great. So glad Lilie is doing so well.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Liesje said:


> I'm so sorry this happened. I hope Lillie can recover and have some positive experiences with other dogs.
> 
> I currently have a small pit mix and one of my best friend's beagle was attacked by a loose pit bull two years ago. The dog was running loose and climbed over their fence to attack the beagle while the family was having dinner in the yard. She lost a leg and then later died of her injuries. This is still very traumatic for my friends so I "hide" my pit mix anytime they come over. I am not pro or anti-pitbull (or any breed, really), I just have dogs that fit my pack and my lifestyle (right now two GSDs and two rescue mixes). I have no desire to campaign in favor of pits nor do I have anything to prove or disprove with my dogs. I recognize that the attack was emotionally painful for my friends and that they lost their dog, so I try to be sensitive to that and I keep my pit mix out of sight until they are ready to see her again (sometimes some of the kids will want to see her and play with her). Likewise I would not invite a guest over who had just returned from combat and then expect him/her to sit through a firework show or go to a gun range with me if they had some trauma from combat. There is "hating the deed not the breed" and then there is just common sense and compassion.


(Stands on chair and applauds!)

Would that other owners were like you!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Marilyn.Lambert said:


> Irresponsible owners tend to gravitate towards certain breeds, but that doesn't make it the dogs fault. The dogs are just as much as a victim; they were neglected and not taught how to live in this world, much like our forgotten youths in our poorer communities. Blaming the victims does nothing to help the future.


I definitely agree with you that it's bad owners who can't handle the dog, and at the root, it isn't the dog's fault. But when the "what" happens - the injury or the death or the trauma - does the "why" even matter to people? Should it? I could go either way on the "should" question but I suspect that the "why" stops mattering as much. I tend not to focus on shoulds as much as what is.

I carry pepper spray with me at all times when I'm out with my puppy. We've met some lovely people and their dogs and had some really nice encounters with dogs of all kinds (including pits), but I can tell you that if a pit bull attacked her, I would really not care about its owner - I'd care about the fact that this dog uniquely physically equipped to cause a lot of damage had a hold on my girl and wasn't letting go.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I'm sorry Watery Tart, this isn't directed at you, but a compilation of the years on this forum where people advocate everything from conceal carry to pepper spray for all these marauding dogs, and the sometimes ludicrous reactions to GSDs way too many people spout about, people crossing the street when they see them is almost a breath of fresh air, but people telling the owners how the dog will turn, and that it should be killed or pulling the leash out of their hands to show them what they should do, etc. 

So today it all just welled up into this crazy society where if someone sees my pointy-eared dog they are are going to scream and spray us all with pepper spray, and as my dog is traumatized, I will be gasping for air due to the asthma, and maybe succumb to it all because someone jumped the gun, and took out the potentially dangerous dog before it could get their Foo Foo. 

I am not sure what exactly it was that I read today to illicit this response. Not even a full moon, I don't think. 

Been walking dogs for 40 years now, and only four times have I been accosted by another dog. 1 was a pit bull and it crashed through a screen door and went for Arwen. She was walking off lead and led the pittie in circles until the owner was able to snag it. No injuries. The second was a Yorkie-mix, and it was circling and snapping at Ninja. While it's owner half-attempted to capture it most ineffectively. My LEAVE IT and HEEL was enough for Ninja to remain at my side while we walked back to my car, and I unlocked it, with the Yorkie driving, circling, and snapping at us the whole way. And the last was a lab. A yellow one. It went for Babsy. And she stayed right with me while the owners chased their dog. No wait. 

Ok, I changed that number three times already, and keep remembering more incidents. All of them have the same outcome though, no injuries. Sometimes I walked away fine. Sometimes rather ticked. But no injuries. I am not saying injuries can't happen, of course they do, but it's not an every day occurrence. It's got to be kind of like riding a horse. Eventually, you will fall or get bit, or kicked, or stepped on. But the sun will come out tomorrow, and we can't let it change our lives. We got to get back out there or back up on the horse and keep on keeping on. 

I am really sorry that Lillie was attacked, but the reason we are reading about this, is because this is actually pretty rare. If it was all over, if it was all the time that dogs are getting seriously attacked and injured, well, it wouldn't be anything to write home about. So lets not all lose our heads. We can carry something to make us feel safer, but, I hope people are not ready to kick, spray, or shoot any dog out there that looks out ours.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Selzer, the pepper spray is more to appease my husband - he wants to know I have something with me when I'm walking the dog alone - but I do have it. I keep it tucked in my dog walking purse (aka the nonleather one). He does worry about other dogs, frankly my concern is more about the two legged beast.

With any luck, I'll NEVER have to use it. I don't want to use it. If it comes down to it, and the worst happens and I have to, I'll be glad I had it. I'm not the hysterical type, but I'm pretty sure my panic reaction will be to try everything BUT the spray until I collect myself enough to remember I have it.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

I just don't understand why people don't start using muzzles with their dog aggressive dogs, they were invented for a reason! I just don't get it.


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## Rocket (May 3, 2014)

selzer said:


> So lets not all lose our heads. We can carry something to make us feel safer, but, I hope people are not ready to kick, spray, or shoot any dog out there that looks out ours.


Off original topic:
Since I was one who mentioned I CC (concealed carry), I'll address this.
You're absolutely right, more often than not these end up being non injury and often there's not even contact, just aggressive behavior that scares people.

I would NEVER shoot/kick/choke/spray/etc any dog unless I saw the use of force (be it deadly or otherwise) as a last resort to protect my own life or the lives of my dogs.

I do CC, not because I'm some right wing nut job or gun nut showing it off, but because I have a right to do so. And I have years of military firearm training that allows me to have faith in my ability to make rational decisions regarding the use of those firearms (even in high stress environments), I know I can trust my aim, and lastly I've seen enough violence and evil in my line of work (both current and previous work) that I carry because I know what potential lurks around every corner.

Back on original topic:
So glad to hear that you (the OP) and your pup are doing well!!


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

So, an update: Today, one week post attack, Lillie spent
a full day at day care. Every time I checked in on her on
their cameras, I saw a dog that was relaxed and happy, and 
as they say "playing well with others." There were many dogs
in her big dog play area, all different types. Yes, including
one pit bull. I'm happy to report that I was able to watch with
as much calm as my dog was showing, and not 'freak out'
just because that dog was there.

Something cute that happened that made momma proud: a
couple of times as I was watching, a staffer would come
in or go out a gate. Every dog there crowded around, pushing
and shoving, tails waving, trying to be in front to greet the
staffer. That is, every dog but my Lillie. My Lillie sat each
time, a bit behind the others, watching. Why? I think because
right after I first got her, I taught her to sit/stay before any
doors or gates were opened. And she just keeps doing what
she was taught. My good girl!!


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Marilyn.Lambert said:


> Bite statistics are not calculated correctly. They list them as a yearly total but what they don't tell you is the population of the individual breeds who did the biting. Insurance companies have done studies that show that Golden cocker spaniels actually bite more people than any other breed. If you look at the overall population of pit bulls you would see that a VERY tiny portion of the population bites people and animals. It's certainly not the big problem the media would have you believe.


It's so tiring reading these sorts of comments.
Comparing a cocker spaniel to a pit bull is like comparing a tornado to a whirly wind.
When pit bulls bite they do an extraordinary amount of damage in a very short period of time.
The extent of the damage they do when they "bite" is what distinguishes them from most other breeds.
They inflict horrific injuries.......that is why they make the news, that is why they are targeted and that is why they are the breed most under the spotlight.

valb.......was very happy go read Lillie is doing much better ......nwhat an awful thing to go through.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

valb said:


> So, an update: Today, one week post attack, Lillie spent
> a full day at day care. Every time I checked in on her on
> their cameras, I saw a dog that was relaxed and happy, and
> as they say "playing well with others." There were many dogs
> ...


Good girl Lillie!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Valerie, that is a cute story  I'm so glad that both of you are able to put the attack behind you, and not freak out around other pitties. 

I'm lucky, because the majority of aggressive acts I've experienced have been GSDs, lol. I've had a few bad pit encounters, and a pyr too, but for the most part I know that if an idiot owns a dog, it doesn't matter what breed it is. It's sad, but true. I won't deny that certain breeds can do much more damage than others, but unfortunately idiots are drawn to this aspect of the dog, so it's a terrible combination.

As far as protecting my dog goes, I'm all for it. I've carried a baton, a cane, a whip (my favorite) but my usual weapon is my leather leash. That thing works like a charm, lol. There's nothing wrong with scaring a dog into retreat, when it's obviously out to harm yours. It's not like I'm walking around looking for a dog to assault, lol. But it's nice to make another dog think twice, and decide to move along instead of starting a fight.


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## Malachi'sMama (Jun 10, 2013)

Coming in a bit late to this thread but what a scary experience. Glad you both are ok.

So wonderful to hear that Lillie is recovering and she even did well at daycare! I'd say that's a great sign. As I was going through reading all the posts in this thread, my mind kept going back to 'I wonder what-if any-long term damage this experience will have on her'? I think it's huge that she was still being herself at daycare-even around another pit. Fantastic news!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that it is great that you could watch through cameras. Then the human part of the partnership isn't anticipating issues with the other dogs, and transmitting their nervousness to the canine part of the partnership. And sometimes dogs act a lot differently with the owner present than with them absent.

So glad that Lillie is doing fine. Dogs tend to be pretty resilient if we don't drag out the incident. That depends in part on the dog's makeup. But they do not necessarily hate all big dogs, or all black dogs, or all pit bulls because they were attacked by one. I think part of that is more us than them. I think they get over things quicker than we do. For them it is a bit of pain. For us it is seeing our dog in trouble, and worrying about losing them, and dealing with the vet, and maybe the authorities, and wondering what we should have done differently, and wondering what we should do next time, and spending days maybe cleaning the wound and giving meds. 

It sounds like things are well on their way back to being normal.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Thanks, Selzer. It was pretty hard for me to 'hand her over'
but I didn't 'lose it' in front of her, and before we left I put
an Altoid in my mouth, so she wouldn't pick up any 
nervousness on my part. (Old show dog handler trick?)
I also, throughout, have tried to be extremely matter-of-fact
around her, and not flinch/transmit down the leash any
anxiety *I* have or had about going by the spot where the
attack happened, etc. so I think it's worked pretty well.

We'll just gloss over how I got a little weepy when I got home
from dropping her off.


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## GSD Owner in Training :-) (Jul 8, 2013)

Valb. Just wanted to say I am so glad you are both doing ok and are moving forwards in life not looking back. 

And what a great girl she is for sitting and waiting :-D


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