# Service Animals in Ontario, Canada



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Reference material for any potential disabled individual from Ontario, Canada seeking information.

*O. Reg. 191/11: INTEGRATED ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS*



> (3) In this Part,
> 
> “guide dog” means a guide dog as defined in section 1 of the _Blind Persons’ Rights Act_; (“chien-guide”)
> 
> ...


Laws available online here: Ontario Regulation 191/11


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

The infographic does not make sense.
On one line it says you must receive a letter from a practitioner stating your need for a SA. On another line it says no ID required. Is the former intended to be a statement for the requisition of a SA? If so, that is also somewhat incorrect - under the Canadian Human Rights Code, Canadians have the right to train their own SA.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I am so tired of the service dog crap. I am sick of the arguments, sick of the fakers, sick of the conflicting laws, sick of every Joe needing a "service dog". 
I know several people that have service dogs. None of them run around talking about it.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Zeppy said:


> The infographic does not make sense.
> On one line it says you must receive a letter from a practitioner stating your need for a SA. On another line it says no ID required. Is the former intended to be a statement for the requisition of a SA? If so, that is also somewhat incorrect - under the Canadian Human Rights Code, Canadians have the right to train their own SA.


Your comment isn't making sense to me, can you try to articulate it differently?

In Ontario, you have to have a letter from a medical professional stating you require a service animal for reasons relating to your disability - that letter, as was proven in court as being necessary, is what grants you the right to use a service animal.

There is no ID. Not for service animals in Ontario.

You can absolutely train your own service dog. The infographic doesn't say you can't. The medical letter legitimizes your service animal, the AODA does not dictate training or task requirements.

The Canadian Human Rights Act doesn't actually mention service animals, it just protects the disabled from discrimination which extends to their medical equipment.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> I am so tired of the service dog crap. I am sick of the arguments, sick of the fakers, sick of the conflicting laws, sick of every Joe needing a "service dog".
> I know several people that have service dogs. None of them run around talking about it.


I'm not quite sure what to say in response to your comment. You're tired of disabled people and their need for assistance navigating the world? That's a pretty terrible thing to say.

I'm sorry to hear disabled people with service animals tire/annoy/offend/upset you.

I don't know how you judge or quantify who exactly requires a service animal if you're not a licensed doctor with access to their medical file.

There are no conflicting laws? The United States has the ADA across states, and Canadian provinces have their own legislation but Canadians are generally protected under the Canadian Human Rights Act,

I don't believe "every Joe" needs a service dog, but again... why are you judging people you don't know for their medical purposes.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Both of you should spend more time watching the videos of the service dogs attacking people. Or read all the posts about how to get a fake service dog so their pets can get special treatment.
Also maybe don't judge people as you assume I am doing. 
Every province in Canada has different laws regarding the use and training.


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## Shannon Monteith Bello (5 mo ago)

Sabis mom said:


> Both of you should spend more time watching the videos of the service dogs attacking people. Or read all the posts about how to get a fake service dog so their pets can get special treatment.
> Also maybe don't judge people as you assume I am doing.
> Every province in Canada has different laws regarding the use and training.


You are literally speaking to two people who have had service dogs. I’m pretty sure we are very aware of the harm untrained pets create. That is literally why Caitlin has made this infographic, in order to educate on what a real service dog is. For businesses to know their rights, and other service dog handlers as well


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

I was simply pointing out something that did not make sense to me, a general reader. I apologize if my comment caused upset or confusion. I have done some research myself into SA because I live with a spinal condition that limits my mobility as well as Crohn’s disease.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

Wolfgeist said:


> Your comment isn't making sense to me, can you try to articulate it differently?
> 
> In Ontario, you have to have a letter from a medical professional stating you require a service animal for reasons relating to your disability - that letter, as was proven in court as being necessary, is what grants you the right to use a service animal.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I also took a moment to think about how a doctor's note was required but an ID isn't. Almost seems like splitting hairs but there is a distinction. Nothing wrong with asking for clarification.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Needing a doctor’s note but not a dog ID would prevent requiring certain levels of training or qualifications to be called a service dog. 

I do wonder what a person can ask another person with a service dog in Ontario. Can a random waitress at a restaurant require a person to show their doctor’s note to allow their service dog entry?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I think the important differentiator is between valid service animal needs and those looking to work the system. 

I have friends who's adult son is a fully functioning adult somewhere low on the autism scale. Low as in you would never know from speaking with him, graduated HS and holds a job etc. They wanted to find out if they could get their dog certified as a service animal so they could fly easier with it, go to restaurants etc.

We've had people come on here asking how to certify a puppy they were buying in order to get it on a plane home rather than driving.

I think that should offend everyone as it reflects poorly on those in true need. I doubt you'd find too many against traditional service animals for sight/hearing/mobility issues. It's the relatively new stress/anxiety requests that are more often abused but yes, hard to judge unless the more egregious examples. Kids are trying to take pets to school everywhere if they are "certified" as lowering their stress/anxiety, not "trained/certified" as anything.

Can you get a rabbit certified as a service animal if it alleviates stress?


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

CeraDean said:


> Needing a doctor’s note but not a dog ID would prevent requiring certain levels of training or qualifications to be called a service dog.
> 
> I do wonder what a person can ask another person with a service dog in Ontario. Can a random waitress at a restaurant require a person to show their doctor’s note to allow their service dog entry?


Ontario does not have training or task requirements. "Emotional support" is considered reason enough for a disabled person to utilize a service animal in Ontario. That is how the legislation is written, which you can read in the original post, and has nothing to do with my personal opinion on service animals (which is irrelevant where law is concerned).

The medical letter grants rights to the disabled person, not the dog. Ontario handlers can have multiple service animals, and species/breed restriction is based entirely on local by-law.


Only gatekeepers, supervisors, and staff dealing directly with the person can request viewing of a disabled person's medical letter. Every staff member cannot request to see the letter, as that becomes a form of unnecessary harassment. Usually one employee, security, or supervisor/manager should request to see.

The letter does not need to state any medical diagnosis or what the dog does for the person, beyond "required or reasons relating to person's disability".

Regular civilians cannot require access to viewing a disabled person's medical letter.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

WNGD said:


> I think the important differentiator is between valid service animal needs and those looking to work the system.
> 
> I have friends who's adult son is a fully functioning adult somewhere low on the autism scale. Low as in you would never know from speaking with him, graduated HS and holds a job etc. They wanted to find out if they could get their dog certified as a service animal so they could fly easier with it, go to restaurants etc.
> 
> ...


An important counter point to your first sentence, is that none of us know who is a "valid" as a legitimate service dog team because we are not the police, nor are we a licensed doctor with access to their medical file. We don't know a person's disabilities, mental state, or how their symptoms impact their daily lives. It's unfair to judge without all that information.

Of course it is frustrating when people use loop holes and abuse the system to bring their pet places, but it is extremely unethical and unfair to punish legitimate service animal teams for the awful actions of others. I have been a service dog user for nearly a decade, and I've had run ins with awful people and dangerous dogs over the years. I'm well versed in the danger and damage people who pretend their pets are service animals can do.

Dismissing mental health issues as unworthy of support is just unfair. A lot of people deal with extremely debilitating mental health conditions, and a service animal can literally be the reason they haven't ended their lives. Using PTSD as an example, which is a condition with a high suicide rate, there are tons of different tasks that can improve someone's quality of life and help them safely navigate the world. 

Certification has been a problem since day one. It's extremely easy to fake, and in the majority of places it simply doesn't exist. The United States has NO certification or identification. The only provinces I can call to mind in Canada that have registration are British Columbia and Alberta, and those registries aren't even mandatory because they conflict with the Canadian Human Rights Act. They essentially provide additional support legally for disabled people in those provinces.

Purchasing certifications and IDs online are a well known scam, have no legal relevance, and are considered fake by the governments.

We do not certify animals in Ontario, as previously stated. But yes, a disabled person can use a rabbit as a service animal for reasons relating to their disability if the medical professional writing their letter deems necessary.

Hopefully that answered your questions!


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I wonder sometimes about getting a service dog for my schizoaffective. It sometimes makes it very difficult for me to be around people - one reason why I am now working from home full-time rather than commuting on a hybrid basis (for now; it can be extended but they don't allow open-ended accommodations). 

I am not sure if it would help or not. I know there are SD for PTSD (which I also have, I guess, though it is only a GP who diagnosed me, not that they're not capable, but - I deal with the more organic mental illness (would that be the way of putting it?) with my psychiatrist), but it is my psychosis that is most disabling. 

Not that it's relevant now - we have three dogs and three is the legal limit in Toronto - plus we'd like to stick to two dogs in the future. So some serious attrition would be required, and while Nebbers is aged the other two are not (Xerxes turns 7 in a couple of months, Agis is 3) and obviously we are keeping all of them! 

Anyways, all very interesting.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Wolfgeist said:


> An important counter point to your first sentence, is that none of us know who is a "valid" as a legitimate service dog team because we are not the police, nor are we a licensed doctor with access to their medical file. We don't know a person's disabilities, mental state, or how their symptoms impact their daily lives. It's unfair to judge without all that information.
> 
> Of course it is frustrating when people use loop holes and abuse the system to bring their pet places, but it is extremely unethical and unfair to punish legitimate service animal teams for the awful actions of others. I have been a service dog user for nearly a decade, and I've had run ins with awful people and dangerous dogs over the years. I'm well versed in the danger and damage people who pretend their pets are service animals can do.
> 
> ...


Thank you for a thoughtful response. 

My purpose in the first line was obviously not to judge legitimate users of service dogs (I can't see the criteria on which they depend) but to call out the abusers, several cases of which I have seen personally. No different than those who abuse handicapped parking privileges when those that require them are not in the vehicle.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

jarn said:


> I wonder sometimes about getting a service dog for my schizoaffective. It sometimes makes it very difficult for me to be around people - one reason why I am now working from home full-time rather than commuting on a hybrid basis (for now; it can be extended but they don't allow open-ended accommodations).
> 
> I am not sure if it would help or not. I know there are SD for PTSD (which I also have, I guess, though it is only a GP who diagnosed me, not that they're not capable, but - I deal with the more organic mental illness (would that be the way of putting it?) with my psychiatrist), but it is my psychosis that is most disabling.
> 
> ...


The journey to using a service animal as part of your treatment plan can be something that requires a lot of thought, and even connecting with your doctor, the community, or a trainer about tasks that could help mitigate your symptoms would be very helpful in deciding if one is right for you.

If you ever need support, want information, or want to see how others lives are being impacted through service animal use - you're welcome to search for my Facebook group "Services Animals in Ontario, Canada"!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

WNGD said:


> Thank you for a thoughtful response.
> 
> My purpose in the first line was obviously not to judge legitimate users of service dogs (I can't see the criteria on which they depend) but to call out the abusers, several cases of which I have seen personally. No different than those who abuse handicapped parking privileges when those that require them are not in the vehicle.


My apologies if I misunderstood. I have brain damage, and it has effected my cognitive skills.

I think all service animal handlers would agree with you that there is a huge issue with illegitimate pets in non-pet friendly public spaces. Even myself, during a neurological episode that causes temporary blindness, where my service animal was guiding me out of a mall to the safety of our vehicle, I had a dog in a vest jump all over him trying to play. It's very frustrating and dangerous.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

As someone with crippling anxiety and severe PTSD and trauma induced amnesia and severe chronic depression who struggles to maintain a "normal" life and pushes myself to go outside every bloody day so I can support myself, and as someone who qualifies for and maybe needs a service animal, getting attacked TWICE by bogus service dogs while trying to go about my daily life has left a sour taste in my mouth about the whole thing. Because the solution is so simple and will never happen because people are concerned about their privacy and rights. Except that your rights end when they trample mine. No one needs to know WHY someone has a service dog, but there ought to be an ID system to PREVENT abuse of the system and ensure that those who need them have clear access to utilize service animals without fear of harassment from business owners and the general public.
It's the constant arguing that I take issue with.
In Alberta anyone, literally anyone can say their dog is a service dog and no one has right to question it. In Nova Scotia only certain doctors can authorize the use of a service animal and it must be trained by an approved agency. Ontario falls somewhere in the middle. Getting the whole country on the same page, or at least in the same book would be a start.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> As someone with crippling anxiety and severe PTSD and trauma induced amnesia and severe chronic depression who struggles to maintain a "normal" life and pushes myself to go outside every bloody day so I can support myself, and as someone who qualifies for and maybe needs a service animal, getting attacked TWICE by bogus service dogs while trying to go about my daily life has left a sour taste in my mouth about the whole thing. Because the solution is so simple and will never happen because people are concerned about their privacy and rights. Except that your rights end when they trample mine. No one needs to know WHY someone has a service dog, but there ought to be an ID system to PREVENT abuse of the system and ensure that those who need them have clear access to utilize service animals without fear of harassment from business owners and the general public.
> It's the constant arguing that I take issue with.
> In Alberta anyone, literally anyone can say their dog is a service dog and no one has right to question it. In Nova Scotia only certain doctors can authorize the use of a service animal and it must be trained by an approved agency. Ontario falls somewhere in the middle. Getting the whole country on the same page, or at least in the same book would be a start.


Just because you choose not to utilize a service animal as part of your treatment plan doesn't mean someone with the same set of issues shouldn't. We're all different and cope with disabilities differently. 

Again, why punish service animal handlers for the awful actions of others? Punish the people bringing dangerous animals into public, and don't put more restrictions and barriers in place for the disabled. Educate businesses and have employees trained properly on provincial law, penalize the people pretending their pets are service animals, and leave disabled people alone. They struggle more than enough.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Wolfgeist said:


> Again, why punish service animal handlers for the awful actions of others? Punish the people bringing dangerous animals into public, and don't put more restrictions and barriers in place for the disabled. Educate businesses and have employees trained properly on provincial law, penalize the people pretending their pets are service animals, and leave disabled people alone. They struggle more than enough.


Again you skew my comments. AT NO POINT did I say anything about punishing people with disabilities! And at no point did I suggest anyone should do as I do. 
This right here is what makes me angry. Your solution is to make EVERYONE else responsible rather then saying you would agree to an ID, that costs you nothing, requires no effort on your part and would allow the law to quickly and without issue punish those seeking to take advantage. 
Please don't think you are the only one on the planet with problems. That waitress that you think needs more training? She's already working for less then minimum wage, has two jobs and is trying to find the hours in the day to sleep and eat. By all means lets take some of her time away, unpaid, so she can learn more stuff. She already paid for at least two courses to get her job, and did them on her time. She can't afford the lunch she is serving you, but in your mind should give more?
How on earth do you expect to punish people people faking it if we have no way of knowing who they are?


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> Again you skew my comments. AT NO POINT did I say anything about punishing people with disabilities! And at no point did I suggest anyone should do as I do.
> This right here is what makes me angry. Your solution is to make EVERYONE else responsible rather then saying you would agree to an ID, that costs you nothing, requires no effort on your part and would allow the law to quickly and without issue punish those seeking to take advantage.
> Please don't think you are the only one on the planet with problems. That waitress that you think needs more training? She's already working for less then minimum wage, has two jobs and is trying to find the hours in the day to sleep and eat. By all means lets take some of her time away, unpaid, so she can learn more stuff. She already paid for at least two courses to get her job, and did them on her time. She can't afford the lunch she is serving you, but in your mind should give more?
> How on earth do you expect to punish people people faking it if we have no way of knowing who they are?


I am not skewing your comments, it is just my reading comprehension.

You believe an ID would solve everything, but it punishes the disabled people for what unethical non-disabled people are doing. There are extensive barriers, unethical points and expenses associated with forcing disabled people to get certification. testing and ID... JUST to be able to access life saving medical equipment.

Awful people "fake" service dogs = force disabled people to have ID. See how bad that sounds?

Yes, everyone should absolutely be responsible for their own actions (bringing their pet in places only service animals are allowed, pretending to have a service animal, etc) rather then forcing the disabled to pay for ID and everything involved with such a program.



"Please don't think you are the only one on the planet with problems." This ads nothing to our discussion. You're trying to play disability olympics with me, and I will not. Nobody's pain and situation is above the other, everyone deserves support and accommodation as needed.

Actually, yes. Employees of an establishment need training, and that includes the laws and rights of disabled people and their medical equipment. In Ontario, it is actually illegal and punishable by fine for a company to not train their staff in regards to the AODA (which includes service animals). This theoretical waitress would be able to ask for compensation for her time training.

She does need to know how to handle disabled people and their medical equipment in her place of work, or be able to call a manager for assistance.

Well, I can tell you how we do that in Ontario. In Ontario, you require a letter from a medical professional stating you require the use of a service animal for reasons relating to your disability. If someone does not provide their letter, or if their dog is misbehaved or dangerous, kick them out of an establishment or call the police. Then, appropriate fines can be put in place for endangering the public or misuse of accessibility law.

IDs are not our saving grace. Staff would still need to be trained how to identify REAL IDs, because the internet is full of scam artists selling fake IDs and certifications. Your tax dollars would have to pay for the expenses associated with testing, certification, identification, certifying trainers to test, transportation and other accomodations issued via a government program.

Disabled people have had this discussion a hundred times over the years. IDs are NOT the answer. Laws to protect the public and disabled people and their medical equipment from bad people, plus education, is the answer.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

*Please approach this topic with compassion. Disabled people face incredible amounts of discrimination, hatred, misunderstanding and mistreatment regularly from society and the majority are in very real pain because of it.*


They also actively practice discrimination, mistreatment, misunderstanding and hatred. I have loads of empathy, and have worked extensively with both the disabled and the disadvantaged. I currently take time out of my schedule to run a literacy program for homeless people. And I have no free time in my schedule, so really I am teaching when I should be sleeping. You know who makes up fully half the homeless pop? Those with mental impairments. You know, those same people you keep saying I can't be bothered with. I proposed this, set it up and do all the teaching and collecting of donated materials. On a bus. Because I can't afford a car.
It was a woman in a wheelchair who interjected herself into a conversation I was having on the phone, with a friend, while shopping, to blast me for needing a particular size of jeans. It was a fake service dog that shredded the ONLY jacket I owned! I went through the rest of the winter in a hoodie. It's a disabled woman who yells at me every day for walking my dog. It was an apparently brain injured man who attacked me and split my head open, then walked away because "he didn't understand". He understood well enough to stalk and target me. And yet another faker and her dog who attacked me in a grocery store for walking past them, and made me miss a night at work
And yet when I ran the rescue my first calls were always to the service dog trainers. And I charged nothing for any viable prospects, I handed over MY savings for a GSD puppy to the mom who needed a dog for her autistic son.
No one knows these things. I don't talk about them. I just live and let live.
But it is NOT my responsibility to solve YOUR issues. And people who expect that it is are in for a big letdown. The only issue service dog handlers have with ID is that god forbid it identifies them as disabled! And that violates their privacy rights. News flash, the service animal you are arguing about already kinda did that.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I don't wish to change the topic on this thread - I can attest that @Sabis mom is good people though! - but I mentioned to Toby that I wondered if the subway and office would be easier if I had a service dog and he thought yes. 

So - NOT now, and maybe not ever. But I am starting to idly research (pretty sure having Xerxes the Jerkses and Agis (being reactive at times) is not a good set up for a service dog. Agis has improved greatly with greater obedience, but even still.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

jarn said:


> I don't wish to change the topic on this thread - I can attest that @Sabis mom is good people though! - but I mentioned to Toby that I wondered if the subway and office would be easier if I had a service dog and he thought yes.
> 
> So - NOT now, and maybe not ever. But I am starting to idly research (pretty sure having Xerxes the Jerkses and Agis (being reactive at times) is not a good set up for a service dog. Agis has improved greatly with greater obedience, but even still.


I understand. Just asking others to recognize the hurtful comments, and why they're hurtful. Doesn't make anyone a villain, just open discussion and hopefully learning!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> They also actively practice discrimination, mistreatment, misunderstanding and hatred. I have loads of empathy, and have worked extensively with both the disabled and the disadvantaged. I currently take time out of my schedule to run a literacy program for homeless people. And I have no free time in my schedule, so really I am teaching when I should be sleeping. You know who makes up fully half the homeless pop? Those with mental impairments. You know, those same people you keep saying I can't be bothered with. I proposed this, set it up and do all the teaching and collecting of donated materials. On a bus. Because I can't afford a car.
> It was a woman in a wheelchair who interjected herself into a conversation I was having on the phone, with a friend, while shopping, to blast me for needing a particular size of jeans. It was a fake service dog that shredded the ONLY jacket I owned! I went through the rest of the winter in a hoodie. It's a disabled woman who yells at me every day for walking my dog. It was an apparently brain injured man who attacked me and split my head open, then walked away because "he didn't understand". He understood well enough to stalk and target me. And yet another faker and her dog who attacked me in a grocery store for walking past them, and made me miss a night at work
> And yet when I ran the rescue my first calls were always to the service dog trainers. And I charged nothing for any viable prospects, I handed over MY savings for a GSD puppy to the mom who needed a dog for her autistic son.
> No one knows these things. I don't talk about them. I just live and let live.
> ...


 That's wonderful, but all these things you're saying are irrelevant here.



You keep talking about "fakers"... I'm not here talking about that. I am here sharing information on legitimate service animal law in Ontario for anyone seeking information in the future. I am disabled, my service animal is legitimate, and I follow my province's laws precisely.

The awful people that harmed you have nothing to do with me, legitimate service dog handlers, or laws in Ontario, Canada. I'm very sorry those things happened to you.

_"The only issue service dog handlers have with ID is that god forbid it identifies them as disabled!"_ *That is absolutely, completely incorrect *and I've tried to explain that to you.

Yes, violating the privacy of disabled people (or anyone) is unethical. What information they are willing to give you is what you have the right to access, unless you are an employee and have the right to verify.

IDs come with an incredible amount of barriers and issues to sort out. I highlighted some. We don't even regulate regular dog trainers in Ontario, and you're asking to regulate service dog trainers as one of many pieces of that puzzle.

I don't know what else to say to you. Disabled people matter. Service animals are a legitimate form of treatment for some people. Fakes are a separate problem, and disabled people shouldn't pay the price for what others do. Disabled people need support and compassion, not more barriers.

Thankfully, our personal opinions on the matter don't mean much. The law matters.


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## Shannon Monteith Bello (5 mo ago)

Sabis mom said:


> As someone with crippling anxiety and severe PTSD and trauma induced amnesia and severe chronic depression who struggles to maintain a "normal" life and pushes myself to go outside every bloody day so I can support myself, and as someone who qualifies for and maybe needs a service animal, getting attacked TWICE by bogus service dogs while trying to go about my daily life has left a sour taste in my mouth about the whole thing. Because the solution is so simple and will never happen because people are concerned about their privacy and rights. Except that your rights end when they trample mine. No one needs to know WHY someone has a service dog, but there ought to be an ID system to PREVENT abuse of the system and ensure that those who need them have clear access to utilize service animals without fear of harassment from business owners and the general public.
> It's the constant arguing that I take issue with.
> In Alberta anyone, literally anyone can say their dog is a service dog and no one has right to question it. In Nova Scotia only certain doctors can authorize the use of a service animal and it must be trained by an approved agency. Ontario falls somewhere in the middle. Getting the whole country on the same page, or at least in the same book would be a start.


i now live in British Columbia where ID and passing a certification is required yet guess what? When I go to the mall here I see 1-2 pets every time and not one is being asked to leave. The issue isn’t the ID, the issue is that too many businesses are unaware of their rights and refuse to enforce them. Requiring a public access test that may require money or a professional trainer, and thus exclude a large majority of owner trained service dogs is not the answer.

and, if you also suffer from such things the lash thing on earth you should do is refer to it as service dog crap and put down an extremely amazing service dog handler who is putting time and effort she may not always have or does not need to put out, in order to help others.


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## Shannon Monteith Bello (5 mo ago)

Zeppy said:


> I was simply pointing out something that did not make sense to me, a general reader. I apologize if my comment caused upset or confusion. I have done some research myself into SA because I live with a spinal condition that limits my mobility as well as Crohn’s disease.


I apologize for my direct and rude comment earlier. Sabi’s mom got me on edge and I went on the attack. It is something I’m working on as well to not let my own mental illness get the better of me. Thank you for taking the time to have a conversation with my friend and learn more. I can see why the distinction between the two can be difficult to see.


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## Shannon Monteith Bello (5 mo ago)

CeraDean said:


> Needing a doctor’s note but not a dog ID would prevent requiring certain levels of training or qualifications to be called a service dog.
> 
> I do wonder what a person can ask another person with a service dog in Ontario. Can a random waitress at a restaurant require a person to show their doctor’s note to allow their service dog entry?


I live in a province that requires a public access test and an ID in order to bring their service animals places and yet I still see untrained pets in places only service animals are allowed every time I go out.

As I mentioned above, the issue isn’t the ID. The issue is that businesses are unaware of their rights and fail to enforce them. They are allowed to ask to see a doctors note and even IF they have one, if the dog is acting inappropriately they can be asked to leave. Our rights do not come before others just as others rights do not come before ours. It’s equal.

unfortunately, most businesses are either afraid to enforce these laws or truly don’t care. I’ve worked for companies that actively encourage people to bring their pets in despite it being against company policy. At the end of the day, people don’t care. They would rather see a cute dog then take into consideration how that cute dog could affect a disabled person’s medical equipment.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

And no, businesses in all parts of Canada do NOT have the right to ask for any documentation. In at least four provinces if you STATE it is a service animal they can ask no further. Several businesses have been publicly shamed for asking handlers to remove poorly behaved animals and a number of staff have been assaulted or bitten. A well known faker has successfully sued two businesses and caused the assault of a store employee.
You are suggesting that service animals do not need public access training? Or should not require testing? Or am I misreading something. And when did I state that I had disabilities you should consider? I expect no consideration, for anything. I carry my own baggage thanks.


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## Shannon Monteith Bello (5 mo ago)

Sabis mom said:


> And no, businesses in all parts of Canada do NOT have the right to ask for any documentation. In at least four provinces if you STATE it is a service animal they can ask no further. Several businesses have been publicly shamed for asking handlers to remove poorly behaved animals and a number of staff have been assaulted or bitten. A well known faker has successfully sued two businesses and caused the assault of a store employee.
> You are suggesting that service animals do not need public access training? Or should not require testing? Or am I misreading something. And when did I state that I had disabilities you should consider? I expect no consideration, for anything. I carry my own baggage thanks.


You literally said at the beginning of this that every average Joe needs a service dog. Invisible disabilities exist and cannot always be seen.

When I had my service dog I was in Ontario, and did not need a public access test. But, I knew the laws and the standards that those of us in the community hold and made sure he met them. Once he didn’t, I retired him and have gone without a service dog since.

You keep acting as if an ID and a public access test will prevent those who are entitled or who feel their needs come first from bringing untrained dogs in public but it won’t. B.C is proof of that.

The laws in place have to be enforced. As I wrote in one of comments, even a handler with a doctor’s note can be asked to leave if their dog is misbehaving. That is the businesses right. They can’t ask a dog to leave if they don’t like dogs, or just because, but if it’s misbehaving they absolutely can. The problem is that yes, one’s who are in the wrong have learned if they scream loud enough, they’ll be left alone. But that’s a persons entitlement, so again, I’m not sure how having and ID changes that. Because at that point, people who don’t care will just buy a fake ID and bring their dog in that way anyway.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> And who is judging?
> And no, businesses in all parts of Canada do NOT have the right to ask for any documentation. In at least four provinces if you STATE it is a service animal they can ask no further. Several businesses have been publicly shamed for asking handlers to remove poorly behaved animals and a number of staff have been assaulted or bitten. A well known faker has successfully sued two businesses and caused the assault of a store employee.
> You are suggesting that service animals do not need public access training? Or should not require testing? Or am I misreading something. And when did I state that I had disabilities you should consider? I expect no consideration, for anything. I carry my own baggage thanks.


You're wrong in regards to Ontario. Here is the legislation for you again, directly from the government website:






Law Document English View


Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.




www.ontario.ca





They are allowed to request to see the letter, it was proven via previous rulings at the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario. This is legitimate legal reference material.






2017 HRTO 627 (CanLII) | Scott v. Siu | CanLII


Access all information related to judgment Scott v. Siu, 2017 HRTO 627 (CanLII) on CanLII.



www.canlii.org





That last link is the legal document from the ruling.

No, in Ontario, there is no required public access training or testing. Your personal opinion on the matter is not the law.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Folks I'm closing this temporarily to edit.Tempers are flaring,so cool off for a while to continue the discussion sans insults.
EDIT TO ADD: You all can disagree without insulting each other I'm sure.If not,just don't post.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Shannon Monteith Bello said:


> I live in a province that requires a public access test and an ID in order to bring their service animals places and yet I still see untrained pets in places only service animals are allowed every time I go out.
> 
> As I mentioned above, the issue isn’t the ID. The issue is that businesses are unaware of their rights and fail to enforce them. They are allowed to ask to see a doctors note and even IF they have one, if the dog is acting inappropriately they can be asked to leave. Our rights do not come before others just as others rights do not come before ours. It’s equal.
> 
> unfortunately, most businesses are either afraid to enforce these laws or truly don’t care. I’ve worked for companies that actively encourage people to bring their pets in despite it being against company policy. At the end of the day, people don’t care. They would rather see a cute dog then take into consideration how that cute dog could affect a disabled person’s medical equipment.


Interesting that there is a public access test. What did that entail, if you don’t mind sharing.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

After my husband died, I became aware of just how much I was missing due to my hearing loss. I looked into getting a hearing ear dog, and found out I'd have to get rid of my pet German Shepherd, who was very elderly. Rehoming her was definitely NOT an option, so I never applied!

Then, I found out Ontario allowed you to train you own service animal. When I adopted Ranger, a 3 year old GSD whose owner said he was going to shoot him, I did so to save his life, never realizing I'd just had one of the best service dogs I could have asked for dropped into my lap. He learned the tasks I needed him to do incredibly fast. The book I bought talked about repeating a task 100 times before you could be sure the dog was trained. They obviously weren't working with a GSD! All I had to do was show Ranger something three times, and he had it down pat!

One thing I did need help with was training him to respond to the door. He'd been an outdoor dog - tied to his doghouse by an 8 ft. chain, so had no clue what a doorbell or knock on the door meant. I hired a professional trainer. It took her 15 minutes to get him responding appropriately.  She said, "Okay, you've paid me for a full hour. What else do you want to work on? How about the kitchen timer?"

After two sessions with the timer, where he had to nudge my hand when it went off, I said, "You know what - I use that timer maybe once every six months. Let's make sure he's proofed with the important stuff like the alarm clock and smoke alarm."

Several months later, I was using the timer to time something that was in the oven. I had the timer beside me, so I could be sure I didn't miss it.

When it went off, Ranger came and nudged my hand. I couldn't believe it. I'd forgotten about what the trainer had done, and thought at first he must be generalizing from the other things that went 'beep'! Nope - two sessions was all it had taken to learn the task! 

I also looked up the requirements for public access testing, and trained him to the standard set out by Assistance Dogs International. I can no longer find the test - it used to be online, but the link no longer works. If you search for it, you may be able to find it, though.

I rarely used him in public, as I mostly needed him when I took my hearing aids (now cochlear implant) off for the night. But at least I knew he was trained for it, and I did sometimes take him to places where he would have to use that training, and he did well. We were once in the con suite at a convention, and the carpet was covered with snack food crumbs. I put him in a down, told him 'no sniff' and he put his head down on his paws and never touched a single crumb. 

What the other two posters have said about service dogs in Ontario and Canada is true. I don't know what the answer is to stopping the fakers without violating people's rights. It's a sad situation, but it's not something I've ever had a problem with in Ontario. The service dogs I've met, which were mostly seeing eye dogs, were all very well trained.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

If you want to read more about this incredible dog, go here: Rescue

You might need some tissues, though. And every single word of it is TRUE!

This is what I rescued him from:


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Emotional support alligator cools off at Philadelphia's Love Park


Bystanders had an up-close and personal encounter with an alligator in Philadelphia's Love Park. But the reptile isn't a wild beast: It's the emotional support animal of a Philadelphia man who runs several social media accounts documenting his loving relationship with Wally the alligator.




www.ctvnews.ca


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Just...no...NO!! 😮


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I saw that story a couple of days ago and was wondering who would get bit first. Just when you think you've heard everything.....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I like that he sleeps with it, not much different than a GSD puppy really


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

WNGD said:


> Emotional support alligator cools off at Philadelphia's Love Park
> 
> 
> Bystanders had an up-close and personal encounter with an alligator in Philadelphia's Love Park. But the reptile isn't a wild beast: It's the emotional support animal of a Philadelphia man who runs several social media accounts documenting his loving relationship with Wally the alligator.
> ...


 Yes, the general service dog community has seen this.

This is in the United States, though. Not in Ontario, Canada. We don't have emotional support animals in our legislation.


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