# chicken skin--on or off?



## balakai

For chicken necks, that is. I never fed the skin in the past, but it's been a while since I've fed necks.

My terriers just can't eat leg quarters, so I've got to get different RMBs for them. Well, Yoda can with some work, but Darby's just got the tiniest mouth. They only eat 2 to 2 1/4 ounces per meal, so they will likely only get 1/2 a chicken neck in additional to whatever MM that I'm feeding.

Do I need to worry about the fat content in the skin? Neither dog has a weight problem. Doesn't the skin have some valuable nutrients?

~Kristin


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## Lauri & The Gang

YES to skin! If a dog has a weight problem you feed less FOOD, not remove the skin.

Skin contains alot of good stuff (ok, that's not the scientific terms).


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## balakai

That's what I thought, and what I'd seen online, but was hoping that you'd answer, Lauri--I trust your opinion and experience!









Just sent an email to order the necks--40 pounds for $25.99. I'll save the leg quarters for India and give the necks to the little guys.

Now I just need a good source for tripe. The place I like is in Indianapolis and I just haven't been out that way for a while, nor do I have any agility trials there in the near future. I'll start another thread for my tripe questions, though.

~Kristin


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## 3K9Mom

Depends on the dog. Chicken skin is fatty, so some dogs (especially GSDs) can't handle all that extra fat. If so, you'll see it nearly immediately via loose stools.

If your dog can handle the fat, there's no reason not to feed it. Or what I do, I feed a lower-fat MM at the same time. I avoid coupling a high fat meat like lamb with a RMB that has chicken fat.

Poultry fat is a valuable source of Omega 6 essential fatty acids. Most of us here are really good at supplying Omega 3s, but O6 acids need to be considered as well. We CAN overdo O3s if they're not given in conjunction with O6s. Most dogs get sufficient O6s because they eat grain-based kibbles (or grain free kibbles that are supplemented). The ratios I read in most texts are something around 1:4 or so O3:O6.... This isn't written in stone. Grain based kibbles can go as high as 1:20 when actually tested. I like to stick to around 1:2-1:1:4. (Lower if my dog has allergies)

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=fattyacids

For our raw-fed dogs, we need to keep O6s in the back of our minds. Poultry meat is an excellent source of O6 Oils. 

You may have a dog that can't handle a lot of fat in his diet, who needs more O3 fatty acids, or a dog that needs more calcium with fewer calories (a senior perhaps). 

As always, it depends on the dog.


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## balakai

Well, back to the drawing board. I just got an email from the supplier that they can't get the 40 pound box of necks with skin from Bravo--they want me to buy the case of 4 10 pound bags of necks without skin.

Guess I have to look somewhere else for chicken necks so that I can get them with skin. Anybody have a source in the Cincinnati area?

~Kristin


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## aubie

The necks mine get don't have skin on them, and they're fine.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Have you checked with your local regular grocery store? If you talk directly with the meat manager they might be able to order bulk items for you.

Also, look for ethnic grocery stores in your area. There's a Hispanic market near me that always has chicken necks with skin as well as other interesting stuff!


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## 3K9Mom

> Originally Posted By: balakaiWell, back to the drawing board. I just got an email from the supplier that they can't get the 40 pound box of necks with skin from Bravo--they want me to buy the case of 4 10 pound bags of necks without skin.
> 
> ~Kristin


I wouldn't NOT get them because they don't have skin, esp if you can get them at a good price. You can almost certainly pick up chicken wings (which have a lot of skin per lb) here and there on sale if you really want your dog to have poultry skin to toss into your pups' bowl. Or you can find other sources of O6 oils: http://www.annecollins.com/dietary-fat/omega-6-fats.htm

It doesn't take much to supplement. Depending on what else you're feeding, _you may not need to supplement at all_. For example, even a chicken leg without skin has O6 in it: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/poultry-products/710/2

So look at what your dogs are eating on a regular basis. You may find that skin is part of their diet that they can do without, esp if they're getting some fat and oils from other meat and fish. If you're feeding enough variety and quality, it's quite possible. 

Finally, keep in mind that nutrition is something that we need to consider over time, not day to day, with healthy adults. The body stores nutrients. So right now, you can get a good deal of these necks, so you get them. In a month or two, you may find a better deal on something else. As long as you keep track of what you're feeding and ensure that it's balancing out over the course of a couple months, then you should be ok. You're not just feeding chicken, right?

In a couple of months, Easter will get us good turkey prices again; then bar-b-que season will provide great deals on chicken at grocery stores... so you can pick up a bunch of legs, wings, etc and start mixing those in with your necks. 

We can't take this approach with pups, seniors or sick dogs. And meals should be balanced. But in your shoes, I would take the necks, and keep an eye out for something to balance them with.

Make sense?


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## Lauri & The Gang

100 grams of chicken breast WITHOUT the skin has 8 IU of Vit A

The same amount of breast WITH the skin has 83 IUs.

It's not just the fatty acids and Omegas.


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## Judy Sheaffer

I get necks at the grocery store (special order) 40 lb. 29 cents a lb.
Usually skin is off. Usually get a few heads in the batch too. Who said feeding raw wasn't an adventure.
My father keeps telling me "you're going to kill that dog feeding that stuff" .
My boy will be 8yrs this spring and still runs agility with the rest of them.


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## balakai

I am only feeding raw 3 meals per week at this point. They get grain-free kibble for breakfast, and dinner alternates between Honest Kitchen (mixed with raw meat) and raw. They get eggs 3 times per week, and fish oil/vitamin E.

I get the balance over time thing. I can easily (and cheaply!) get leg quarters for India, but the terriers need smaller bones. The necks seem to be the cheapest and easiest to get, but if those are the *only* RMBs that I'm going to feed, how do I compensate for the skin if I buy the skinless necks?

~Kristin


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: balakai I can easily (and cheaply!) get leg quarters for India, but the terriers need smaller bones.


Why? My Cresteds Kaynya (about 12 pounds) and Spike (puppy - about 3 pounds) just had some chicken thighs for breakfast.

When I fed leg quarters I cut off the thigh section and then cut that into pieces for them. Tazer and Winnie can handle the thighs whole and Mauser and Sasha gets the legs.


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## balakai

Yoda can handle it, but Darby can't--she has a tiny mouth and an underbite. I have to smash the bones with a hammer and I think that just defeats the purpose of feeding whole bones.

Side note--Lauri, what do you used to cut the thigh bones?

~Kristin


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: balakaiSide note--Lauri, what do you used to cut the thigh bones?


 Fiscars Garden Shears 

I LOVE these!!


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## Amaruq

I keep breaking handles if they are plastic. I need some good heavy duty 100% metal scissors


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