# Purebred Working Line GSD $600



## ashhur

Wow okay i got my dog in September and just realized how cheap she actually was! Check out her awesome pedigree database Marilyn Monroe vom Hurley


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## ashhur

Funny i hate braggers and i just bragged lol


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## ashhur

That monent when u see that many people seen your post but not one replied like "really?"


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## Cassidy's Mom

Here's the link for you.  Marilyn Monroe Vom Hurley


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## selzer

I really don't like the look of the sables coloring/pattern, but she is a pretty one.


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> That monent when u see that many people seen your post but not one replied like "really?"


That's the point where I might wonder if something's wrong or if maybe I didn't get such a steal. Did you look at the link?


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## ashhur

Ok wow thanks guys lol


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## selzer

I meant, in general, I am not attracted to sables, but I like this one. I don't know much about working line pedigrees.


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## Liulfr

She's certainly pretty.


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## wolfstraum

the pup is almost all czech kennels in the first couple generations, and West German a good bit behind that, and there are some nice dogs there - but the reason she was inexpensive is that nothing in the first two generations is titled, and they were not produced by working line breeders who are known to do produce titled working dogs - not known for their kennel and breedings...

Lee


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## ashhur

Yea i get u in fact i liked show lines but when i saw her i knew i had to check her out. Also when she was 7 weeks or so she was complety fawn exept her muzzle and a little black but that just proves they really change color lol


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## ashhur

When she is old enough to breed i hope she throws in some silver sable and maybe a black


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> Ok wow thanks guys lol


I'm no expert but it might help if I share my experience with you. I paid $500.00 for mine shes papered. I thought I got an ok deal. I posted her on here and asked an opinion about her pedigree.....

Then I got an education lol.... Just like with mine - the one big thing missing were the hip xrays for sire and dam - and that is the only thing I see.... But - it was explained to me that a lack of titling ib oarebts along with a lack of health (hip)check indicated that it may have been a backyard breeding. I was kinda shocked because the breeder had a 3rd generation ... bla bla bla speal...

I came to find out later that the Sire couldn't pass the hip certification for breeding and I later found someone in the next town over with a sib that was also breeding and selling pups and THAT sire couldn't pass the hip certification either. So, it's in the lines of my pup. 

The difference is price normally goes down when the health certificates are missing and there are no titles in sire or dam. Mine to had lots of titles in the grandparents and back further but.....

Not saying you don't have a super good deal and not at all saying the bloodlines are anything other than awesome (but I don't know because I'm a novice also) - just saying the price is normally lower such as you see when hips and titles are not with the parents That's all


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## onyx'girl

As a favor to you ashhur, please, please, stop with the old enough to breed. Read and learn....hopefully by the time she 'is old enough to breed' you'll know better.


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## MayzieGSD

Well, I paid $275 for my purebred working lines gsd.


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> When she is old enough to breed i hope she throws in some silver sable and maybe a black


You are going to breed her?


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## cdwoodcox

ashhur said:


> That monent when u see that many people seen your post but not one replied like "really?"


It looked let you were having a pretty good conversation with yourself. Didn't want to interrupt. She's a cute pup. If she was a long coat and had health certificate I would be jealous. Good luck. Hopefully she's healthy to an old age. And there's nothing wrong with commenting to yourself about your own comments or posts. Just dont start arguing with yourself.


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## wolfstraum

ashhur said:


> When she is old enough to breed i hope she throws in some silver sable and maybe a black


Being "old enough" is far far far from the only thing you need to consider to breed this female. 

Her pedigree - while going back to decent lines - is basically a back yard one, no titles or show ratings....

IF you consider breeding - and want to be "reputable" - you will need to title this girl, get a show rating, hips/elbows and DM, and LEARN about the breed - get established as a trainer prior to pumping out puppies. Breeding is not a money maker even when everything is done right - breeding without credentials is a money pit and risky.

Lee


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## ashhur

Onyx'girl actually i have been studying all day and even started writing in a journal for important info. I dont not take these things lightly


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## Fodder

one up Mazie, mine was $117..... and the expensive showline, he was $32


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## ashhur

wolfstraum said:


> ashhur said:
> 
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> When she is old enough to breed i hope she throws in some silver sable and maybe a black
> 
> 
> 
> Being "old enough" is far far far from the only thing you need to consider to breed this female.
> 
> Her pedigree - while going back to decent lines - is basically a back yard one, no titles or show ratings....
> 
> IF you consider breeding - and want to be "reputable" - you will need to title this girl, get a show rating, hips/elbows and DM, and LEARN about the breed - get established as a trainer prior to pumping out puppies. Breeding is not a money maker even when everything is done right - breeding without credentials is a money pit and risky.
> 
> Lee
Click to expand...

Yes you are right i am going to get her hips tested and when the pups are born i will register them. Also this is a one time thing. I wont be breeding as a breeder in at least 6 years


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## wolfstraum

reread - hips/elbows only the START of breedworthiness


Lee


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## onyx'girl

ashhur said:


> Onyx'girl actually i have been studying all day and even started writing in a journal for important info. I dont not take these things lightly


Wonderful! I love your enthusiasm, get with someone who can mentor you, train, train, train...learn more. We need younger people that are the future of this breed, but you do need to learn before you ever think of breeding. There are breeders or trainers that may be willing to have you help them and in turn, you'll learn so much more doing hands on vs reading internet posts.


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## ashhur

Wolfstruam you seem very educated would you mind sharing anything that i might want to research or do?


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> Yes you are right i am going to get her hips tested and when the pups are born i will register them. Also this is a one time thing. I wont be breeding as a breeder in at least 6 years


A "one time thing"? Why do you want to breed her? Do you want one of the puppies?


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## ashhur

onyx'girl said:


> ashhur said:
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> Onyx'girl actually i have been studying all day and even started writing in a journal for important info. I dont not take these things lightly
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> Wonderful! I love your enthusiasm, get with someone who can mentor you, train, train, train...learn more. We need younger people that are the future of this breed, but you do need to learn before you ever think of breeding. There are breeders or trainers that may be willing to have you help them and in turn, you'll learn so much more doing hands on vs reading internet posts.
Click to expand...

Thanks i just love this breed and i dont know what job i want but my dad says pick something else but i disagree because this is the one thing i want to do. I will go to college for science and learn more about genetics


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## ashhur

Stonevintage said:


> ashhur said:
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> Yes you are right i am going to get her hips tested and when the pups are born i will register them. Also this is a one time thing. I wont be breeding as a breeder in at least 6 years
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> A "one time thing"? Why do you want to breed her? Do you want one of the puppies?
Click to expand...

Yes i want a puppy because in the future when i have a place of my own i will breed it but also i just want another puppy from this bloodline but feom now i need to focus on my puppy she wont be one forever lol


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## mycobraracr

ashhur said:


> Yes i want a puppy because in the future when i have a place of my own i will breed it but also i just want another puppy from this bloodline but feom now i need to focus on my puppy she wont be one forever lol





Why this blood line? What specifically about it do you like? What lines of the male do you want to use?


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## cdwoodcox

ashhur said:


> Stonevintage said:
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> ashhur said:
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> Yes you are right i am going to get her hips tested and when the pups are born i will register them. Also this is a one time thing. I wont be breeding as a breeder in at least 6 years
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> A "one time thing"? Why do you want to breed her? Do you want one of the puppies?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes i want a puppy because in the future when i have a place of my own i will breed it but also i just want another puppy from this bloodline but feom now i need to focus on my puppy she wont be one forever lol
Click to expand...

I totally agree. Just take this time to enjoy your puppy. Focus on just being her human. Learn all you can about training. Training her should be your number one priority. Maybe volunteer with professional trainers to learn all you can about dog training. Then when you get older you can start off training dogs and work yourself into being a possible breeder.


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## mnm

You can tell, just by her registered name, that she did not come from anyone who is breeding to the SV standard, which requires a title, health clearances, a show conformation rating to evaluate the structure, or any titles in any venue, for that matter. Back several generations, there are some really good dogs. Czech lines closer up, but back to some west German lines down in the 4th and 5th generations. 
I would suggest that you find something that you enjoy doing with your dog, and train and title it in some venue to prove it's breed worthiness. Then follow up with all the health testing, hips elbows, DM, eye, etc... At that point, then think about the possibility of maybe breeding down the road. In the mean time, learn all you can about the breed. 
With her blood lines, you will not get silver sables, unless that is the color of the male. It is very possible that she could carry a black recessive gene, so bred with a black or a male that carries the black recessive gene, you might get a black puppy. But at this point, that is the least of your concerns.


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## ashhur

mycobraracr said:


> ashhur said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes i want a puppy because in the future when i have a place of my own i will breed it but also i just want another puppy from this bloodline but feom now i need to focus on my puppy she wont be one forever lol
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> Why this blood line? What specifically about it do you like? What lines of the male do you want to use?
Click to expand...

Well i love her family's colors and if i want one of a purebred bloodline like this I'd have to pay but if i breed her i can get one free and also i have the her breeders number and he said he'll breed with me free as long he gets pick of the litter


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## MineAreWorkingline

ashhur said:


> Funny i hate braggers and i just bragged lol


I am really not sure what you are bragging about. Please explain.

There is a member on here who recently posted that it cost her $10,000.00 worth of surgery for hip dysplasia on her dog. Why increase your chances by buying from dogs that have not been xrayed to save a few hundred?


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## mycobraracr

ashhur said:


> Well i love her family's colors and if i want one of a purebred bloodline like this I'd have to pay but if i breed her i can get one free and also i have the her breeders number and he said he'll breed with me free as long he gets pick of the litter





This doesn't really answer the question. Color isn't anything special. There are GSDs of all shapes and colors from reputable breeders. I can tell you that buying a puppy from a reputable breeder would be a lot cheaper than breeding your dog correctly. As others said get out there. Go visit some clubs, find a mentor and soak up all you can. Fully understanding this breed isn't something you can learn from the internet in one day. There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, but there is no substation for real life experience.


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## ashhur

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ashhur said:
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> Funny i hate braggers and i just bragged lol
> 
> 
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> I am really not sure what you are bragging about. Please explain.
> 
> There is a member on here who recently posted that it cost her $10,000.00 worth of surgery for hip dysplasia on her dog. Why increase your chances by buying from dogs that have not been xrayed to save a few hundred?
Click to expand...

Good point actually though we thought she hip displasa young and immediately contacted the breeder he showed me proof that the parents have been x-rayed and vet checked on papers and signatures. Turns out i have caught her jumping the picnic bench and this caused her pain. She is fine now and yes i will be more cautious next time when picking out one of these puppies


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## ashhur

Mycobraracr will do and i understand honestly i thought it be special having her have at least have one litter so that way i can soak up the awesomeness first hand. I will be studying more and having her litter will help me determine whether i want to breed later on as a breeder no doubt about it theres so much i need to learn ahead a time


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## ashhur

MineAreWorkingline you are totally right i have had a white GSD and thought responsible enough just to find out I'm totally wrong bit thats the past and now what i have to do is make sure i research this year and learn more about before breeding as it is one of my new years resolution


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## ashhur

ashhur said:


> MineAreWorkingline you are totally right i have had a white GSD and thought responsible enough just to find out I'm totally wrong bit thats the past and now what i have to do is make sure i research this year and learn more about before breeding as it is one of my new years resolution


Dang my autocorrect isnt working or what lol


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## mnm

Did the breeder show you OFA certification on the hips and elbows? What about DM testing? If it was just a vet that took some xray's and gave his opinion, you do not have officially health tested parents. 

There is absolutely no reason to breed your female, because you want a puppy like her, and so you"can soak up the awesomeness first hand"... this is what a back yard breeder does. 

Forget about breeding. Train and title your puppy, and learn all you can along the way, but right now, you need to learn, study, research all you can about the breed, what it was developed to do, what health issues are common in the breed, the structure and how it affects its ability to do its job, learn about the temperaments and drives, learn about the different bloodlines, what they bring to the table.


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## onyx'girl

you are the same age as a dogs lifespan. Live one more lifespan worth before you decide to breed.


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## MineAreWorkingline

ashhur said:


> MineAreWorkingline you are totally right i have had a white GSD and thought responsible enough just to find out I'm totally wrong bit thats the past and now what i have to do is make sure i research this year and learn more about before breeding as it is one of my new years resolution


Ashur, maybe it is just me, but the biggest things I hear coming through loud and clear is that you are bragging because you got a _good deal _and that you want to breed her because you can get a puppy for_ free _and that the breeder will let you use his stud in exchange for a puppy so you would get that _free_ too. As somebody that loves this breed, I find it sad to see you so focused on _no to low cost_ dogs rather than this great breed we love. It is such breeding practices which help to ruin breeds and fill shelters with them.

German Shepherds have a lot to offer and breeding should not be contingent on a modest price tag.


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## Stonevintage

Asher, there is something called the OFA dog registry that I think you should look and and understand what it is and why it exists. This regarding one of the the health checks you say the owners have and showed you paperwork on. If you cannot locate the parents names on the registry once you understand the hip certification process and understand the registry, you need to get back to the breeders... with some questions.... as it is - the AKC site does not have any information the parents were health checked and that is what people see. Nobody is going to trust a breeder that has them done but does not register them for some reason. Red flag there. 

Learning about the health tests and the registry is an excellent place to learn.


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## selzer

Just a question here, is the reason we don't believe they have been done, that we did not see them on pedigree database? 

I hope no one is using that as a measure, because that depends on whoever is listing, and what information that person thinks they have. It is not necessarily accurate. You have to go to OFFA.org to find OFA information. And, some people use Penn Hip, and some use the German system.


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## ashhur

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ashhur said:
> 
> 
> 
> MineAreWorkingline you are totally right i have had a white GSD and thought responsible enough just to find out I'm totally wrong bit thats the past and now what i have to do is make sure i research this year and learn more about before breeding as it is one of my new years resolution
> 
> 
> 
> Ashur, maybe it is just me, but the biggest things I hear coming through loud and clear is that you are bragging because you got a _good deal _and that you want to breed her because you can get a puppy for_ free _and that the breeder will let you use his stud in exchange for a puppy so you would get that _free_ too. As somebody that loves this breed, I find it sad to see you so focused on _no to low cost_ dogs rather than this great breed we love. It is such breeding practices which help to ruin breeds and fill shelters with them.
> 
> German Shepherds have a lot to offer and breeding should not be contingent on a modest price tag.
Click to expand...

Thank u, but not to burst your bubble i only want to do this, not for a free puppy, but to decide whether i am going to breed these dogs in the future to better the breed. Also i am a not far away from being a teenager so i do not know that much.Any friendly advice will be appreciated. Thank u. Btw i am still researching there is so much to know.


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## mycobraracr

selzer said:


> Just a question here, is the reason we don't believe they have been done, that we did not see them on pedigree database?



Nope! They are not listed on OFA. Even dogs in the pedigree that say they are OFA-Excellent on PDB are not showing up on OFA database. At least when I checked.


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## MineAreWorkingline

ashhur said:


> Thank u, but not to burst your bubble i only want to do this, not for a free puppy, but to decide whether i am going to breed these dogs in the future to better the breed. Also i am a not far away from being a teenager so i do not know that much.Any friendly advice will be appreciated. Thank u. Btw i am still researching there is so much to know.


Breeding a random litter of puppies is NOT the way to discover whether you want to be a breeder or not. 

You have been given much friendly, good advice on here. There are ways far better than breeding a littler of puppies to decide if you want to breed in the future.


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## ashhur

mycobraracr said:


> selzer said:
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> Just a question here, is the reason we don't believe they have been done, that we did not see them on pedigree database?
> 
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> Nope! They are not listed on OFA. Even dogs in the pedigree that say they are OFA-Excellent on PDB are not showing up on OFA database. At least when I checked.
Click to expand...

Yes ur right i will contact him to make sure he changes that i did catch that thank u come on people no reason to argue lol my intentions were never this lets all get along


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## ashhur

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ashhur said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank u, but not to burst your bubble i only want to do this, not for a free puppy, but to decide whether i am going to breed these dogs in the future to better the breed. Also i am a not far away from being a teenager so i do not know that much.Any friendly advice will be appreciated. Thank u. Btw i am still researching there is so much to know.
> 
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> Breeding a random litter of puppies is NOT the way to discover whether you want to be a breeder or not.
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> You have been given much friendly, good advice on here. There are ways far better than breeding a littler of puppies to decide if you want to breed in the future.
Click to expand...

You are right i guess i just wanted to witness my first litter besides the important thing is my dog is still young i love her but i didnt get her just to breed but to have a guard dog and best friend so minds well enjoy her while i can because she'll be grown up soon before u know it


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## DutchKarin

Don't know if you saw my other post. But the right way to go about this is for you to get totally involved in dog sports or confirmation. This would include competitive obedience, agility, ... I don't know if Schutzhund clubs have age requirements of the handler. But that is how you really learn the breed, learn what you like and what you don't, prove your individual dog is worth "improving the breed." And doing sports is way more fun than breeding dogs. Go out and enjoy your dog and stop worrying about getting puppies now. Have fun, test yourself, go for it. LEARN FIRST.


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## ashhur

DutchKarin said:


> Don't know if you saw my other post. But the right way to go about this is for you to get totally involved in dog sports or confirmation. This would include competitive obedience, agility, ... I don't know if Schutzhund clubs have age requirements of the handler. But that is how you really learn the breed, learn what you like and what you don't, prove your individual dog is worth "improving the breed." And doing sports is way more fun than breeding dogs. Go out and enjoy your dog and stop worrying about getting puppies now. Have fun, test yourself, go for it. LEARN FIRST.


Thank u i will definitely try to get into that stuff i with her thank u for ur support


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## mycobraracr

DutchKarin said:


> Don't know if you saw my other post. But the right way to go about this is for you to get totally involved in dog sports or confirmation. This would include competitive obedience, agility, ... I don't know if Schutzhund clubs have age requirements of the handler. But that is how you really learn the breed, learn what you like and what you don't, prove your individual dog is worth "improving the breed." And doing sports is way more fun than breeding dogs. Go out and enjoy your dog and stop worrying about getting puppies now. Have fun, test yourself, go for it. LEARN FIRST.


:thumbup:

ashhur, are you by chance in NorCal? I only ask because a breeder in your dogs pedigree is local to me. If so there are a lot of clubs in NarCal for you to check out. I encourage you to get out there and learn all you can.


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## ashhur

Yes and yes i will be getting involved lets forget breeding and im going to focus on my best friend that i now have.I am so blessed to have her and infact the breeder of her has her mom and dad less than an hour away and has a friend who has his sister.


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## ashhur

Actually i believe there are no haters out there. You guys are just trying to help me and give me advice.Thank u all!!


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## llombardo

Fodder said:


> one up Mazie, mine was $117..... and the expensive showline, he was $32


I got both of you beat. Mine was $99


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> Actually i believe there are no haters out there. You guys are just trying to help me and give me advice.Thank u all!!


That's exactly right ashhur It's funny. It seems like a person could pick anything in this world these days to talk about and it can get sooo complicated! It just amazes me when I get interested in something and look it up on the internet. Sometimes it feels like I could spend the rest of my life learning about it and still not know it all.

I think you're right where you need to be. Make big plans because you are young and now is the time to think about stuff. Then research and learn and decide (as you are doing).

Things change so much and it's a wild ride but one thing, I'll bet you will always have a good dog. They give us so much and show us so much and it's easy to see you appreciate that. 

One thing that I did to help me achieve my goals (whatever they were) is to get one of those multi year calendars and write my goals on it. Maybe some were 6 month goals, some 2 year goals etc. I don't know why but it really worked and gave me a target to work toward. I went for the big goal when I was about 22 and that was to have my own house within 3 years... guess what that worked too!


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## mycobraracr

ashhur, here are a list of IPO clubs in your area. Go check them out. Talk to people learn and maybe even get involved. The dog world needs more motivated young people. 
Region/Events | United Schutzhund Clubs of America


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## ashhur

Alright thank u i will check them out


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## brandydan

*Finally!*

I have to confess that I started reading this thread fully expecting it to go downhill in a hurry when the advice seems to be contrary to what the OP expected to hear/read (see past threads about newbies and ear floofies and gay tails, for example)...

OP, I think that you will find some of the most (sometimes) brutally honest, but well-meaning advice on this forum. You will be told if you want to do something that is stupid, at the same time getting several lifetimes advice, suggestions, and links. I don't have a GSD yet, since my husband and I want to be sure that we are really REALLY ready. 

Our Shiloh is giving us hints of why we were smart to wait (for one, these are way smarter/stubborn than many give them credit for; my husband 'blames' the GSDs that were the breed founders). But once upon a time I used to show and breed Maine **** cats, so I have a slight similar perspective to many on this site who breed and show. Perhaps I can offer some unsolicited advice, potential GSD owner to excited, wanting to learn EVERYTHING about my GSD owner...

I think that one thing that is being hinted here is for you to learn with your dog, and the last thing you should think about is puppy color. Learn about the GSD history, their present pluses and minuses, especially with regards to medical issues, genetic surprises, etc. Genetics is more than figuring out coat color of a litter, there is more to medical history than simple 'good hips'.

Do NOT (IMHO), bother to use your dog's breeder as the source for your dog's first breeding, if you choose that route. Unless he has a large kennel with several studs, you stand the chance of close breeding. If your dog is a great example of the breed (should you head the way to title her), there should be a breeder out there, also with a great example of the breed, who might be willing to let his/her stud breed with a puppy back.

If you have full registration (at least in AKC), train her and see if she'll do well in conformation. If not, spay her (since as it was explained to me by my new sheltie puppy's breeder, conformation tends to 'weed' out examples of the breed that do not measure up to the breed standard, therefore 'breeding to better the breed'), take her to agility, obedience, therapy, a slew of things that GSDs are perfect for.

Finish HS, head to college, learn about all the sciences, not just genetics (btw, I'm a Biologist, wanted to be a veterinarian but life got in the way). If you want to see the awesomeness of birth, either work, volunteer or intern at an animal hospital or get a mentor who is into breeding.

My Shiloh and Sheltie both came with a package that includes their pedigrees, COPIES of all their parents' tests (OFA, heart, thyroid, you name it). As another poster mentioned, having a copy of an xray done by the vet doesn't really count.

And post pictures!


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## ashhur

Thank u for advice and I'll definitely use it


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## mjackson0902

I don't have anything to add, just wanted to comment. Bergen was free, but I do not have any papers in my hand so that is worth a box of rocks ! However, I will say that before I look at anything cosmetic, temperament and health are first on my list. I do not care if it was a $300 dog that was the prettiest GSD God put on earth, bad nerves and bad health history are always a no go in my book.


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## Mrs.P

How much are you going to charge for puppies?


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## Waldi

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am really not sure what you are bragging about. Please explain.
> 
> There is a member on here who recently posted that it cost her $10,000.00 worth of surgery for hip dysplasia on her dog. Why increase your chances by buying from dogs that have not been xrayed to save a few hundred?


here is my take on this. I got my GS from breeder that was providing guarantee and registration. That pup did not have issue with hips at all, but at around 8 months he stop eating and showed sign of medical problems. After extensive investigations, vet has determined that dog has genetic liver disease and the only option is to put it down. This was not easy, as it was super smart puppy and we really got attached to it. It took me over ten years to think about new puppy. Despite the fact that it was very reputable breeder and I had option to pick puppy on warranty, I decided to go with less recognizable breeder who showed me parents and offered dog with or with registration (warranty or not), I chose to go with this breeder based on interaction with parents and decided to go with no registration, as for me it does not matter documented pedigree but actual animal. Papers do not make dog better or worst, the fact that breeder has a big name recognition does not mean they offer substandard dogs. Now three year later, I have great GS and she is healthy and super smart (working line) and I never regret dealing with this small breeder. I did see passion and love she had for her dogs and after seeing condition of her kennel, I knew that this was right choice. Sometime, we pay too much attention to "brand names" and paper, rather then thinking about animal that will be part of the family no matter of the pedigree. Most important aspect is to have a healthy pup, and requesting x-ray will not guarantee health or problem free but will expose you young dog to unnecessary radiation. By the way, we paid $500 with no registration, if we pick registration it would be $750. My dog does not know that si is not registered and despite that is pretty happy with us


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## llombardo

I think it's me that was brought up that paid $10000.00 plus for hip Dysplasia. That particular dog came from a breeder and there was no evidence of hip Dysplasia in the lines as far back as they could go, they were pretty shocked by the diagnosis. So it can definitely happen to any dog. It really can happen no matter where the dog came from. My best advice is to be prepared for anything if you get any dog, I honestly wasn't, but I am now.


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## Regen

ashhur said:


> Thank u, but not to burst your bubble i only want to do this, not for a free puppy, but to decide whether i am going to breed these dogs in the future to better the breed. *Also i am a not far away from being a teenager so i do not know that much.*Any friendly advice will be appreciated. Thank u. Btw i am still researching there is so much to know.



This thread instantaneously reminded me why I don't come here much anymore....And why there are so many poorly bred, unwanted GSD's in shelters waiting to be euthanized  

But I noticed the OPs age, so want to try and respect that. 

Ashur, you sound like a really sweet child ( did I catch that correctly that you are not even 13? ) and you seem to want to learn, which is why I hope you reconsider breeding your girl, and educate yourself on EVERYTHING that is the world of German Shepherd. Their history, the correct breeding standard etc. How in Germany, they can't be bred unless titled/tested.Look at some rescue sites, and see how many are in shelters, how many are put down daily. Try GSD in Shelters Urgent! on FB. It is heartbreaking. Then consider the toll a breeding will take on your puppy, and what the future will hold for her potential puppies. How will you ensure that they will NOT end up in shelters. 
I really trust that you will love your puppy and ultimately will do what is best for her. And when you are an actual adult and have learned everything, maybe you will make an awesome breeder. Until then enjoy growing up with your puppy. She will love you unconditionally and trust that you will only do what is best for her.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Waldi said:


> here is my take on this. I got my GS from breeder that was providing guarantee and registration. That pup did not have issue with hips at all, but at around 8 months he stop eating and showed sign of medical problems. After extensive investigations, vet has determined that dog has genetic liver disease and the only option is to put it down. This was not easy, as it was super smart puppy and we really got attached to it. It took me over ten years to think about new puppy. Despite the fact that it was very reputable breeder and I had option to pick puppy on warranty, I decided to go with less recognizable breeder who showed me parents and offered dog with or with registration (warranty or not), I chose to go with this breeder based on interaction with parents and decided to go with no registration, as for me it does not matter documented pedigree but actual animal. Papers do not make dog better or worst, the fact that breeder has a big name recognition does not mean they offer substandard dogs. Now three year later, I have great GS and she is healthy and super smart (working line) and I never regret dealing with this small breeder. I did see passion and love she had for her dogs and after seeing condition of her kennel, I knew that this was right choice. Sometime, we pay too much attention to "brand names" and paper, rather then thinking about animal that will be part of the family no matter of the pedigree. Most important aspect is to have a healthy pup, and requesting x-ray will not guarantee health or problem free but will expose you young dog to unnecessary radiation. By the way, we paid $500 with no registration, if we pick registration it would be $750. My dog does not know that si is not registered and despite that is pretty happy with us


Despite the best of intentions, mother nature marches to the beat of her own drummer. No breeder can guarantee a puppy will not have a congenital condition, but reputable breeders take every precaution possible to ensure that the likelihood is at a minimum. 

I don't see where I mentioned registering a dog or where a pedigree ensures health or anything else. Perhaps the wrong messenger?

The same can be said of a large breeder vs a small breeder, wrong messenger again?

I believe that people are thinking about a dog being a happy and healthy long term member of the family when they, as you so eloquently put it, " pay too much attention to "brand names" and paper". There are many highly experienced people that believe that the pedigree is the blueprint of what one can expect from the dog.


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## Jax08

ashhur said:


> Yes and yes i will be getting involved lets forget breeding and im going to focus on my best friend that i now have.I am so blessed to have her and infact the breeder of her has her mom and dad less than an hour away and has a friend who has his sister.


If you want to do agility, look for local trainers that are successful and look for local 4H clubs. 

Enroll in 4-H Youth Programs - Find Your Local 4-H Club

and mycobraracer had a great idea as well to find your local IPO club.


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## mycobraracr

Jax08 said:


> If you want to do agility, look for local trainers that are successful and look for local 4H clubs.
> 
> Enroll in 4-H Youth Programs - Find Your Local 4-H Club
> 
> and mycobraracer had a great idea as well to find your local IPO club.





ashhur, I'm assuming you're within a couple hours of me. I'm just not sure what direction. I have a great agility trainer in Cottonwood, and there is also a very successful agility trainer in Elk Grove that my wife has been to. Let me know if either of those is relatively close to you and I can get you their info.


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## ashhur

Mrs.P said:


> How much are you going to charge for puppies?


 500 maybe


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## ashhur

mycobraracr said:


> ashhur, I'm assuming you're within a couple hours of me. I'm just not sure what direction. I have a great agility trainer in Cottonwood, and there is also a very successful agility trainer in Elk Grove that my wife has been to. Let me know if either of those is relatively close to you and I can get you their info.


My trainer is in Victorville an hour away sorry i live in SoCal. I just realized u put NorCal lol


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## ashhur

Regen said:


> This thread instantaneously reminded me why I don't come here much anymore....And why there are so many poorly bred, unwanted GSD's in shelters waiting to be euthanized
> 
> But I noticed the OPs age, so want to try and respect that.
> 
> Ashur, you sound like a really sweet child ( did I catch that correctly that you are not even 13? ) and you seem to want to learn, which is why I hope you reconsider breeding your girl, and educate yourself on EVERYTHING that is the world of German Shepherd. Their history, the correct breeding standard etc. How in Germany, they can't be bred unless titled/tested.Look at some rescue sites, and see how many are in shelters, how many are put down daily. Try GSD in Shelters Urgent! on FB. It is heartbreaking. Then consider the toll a breeding will take on your puppy, and what the future will hold for her potential puppies. How will you ensure that they will NOT end up in shelters.
> I really trust that you will love your puppy and ultimately will do what is best for her. And when you are an actual adult and have learned everything, maybe you will make an awesome breeder. Until then enjoy growing up with your puppy. She will love you unconditionally and trust that you will only do what is best for her.


May i say that yes i know i am very young and not educated. I will do my best though because this is not something that can be learned over night. You got to give me a chance to prove myself not some little girl who wants to backyard breed, but as someone who wants to enjoy her pup while she can. My pup wont be a pup forever and some thoughts aren't going to change my mind about breeding. I know i can manage if i learn everything i can. I have plenty of time so i minds well use it


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## NancyJ

Ok, you have some time to reconsider but check this out.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html


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## ashhur

jocoyn said:


> Ok, you have some time to reconsider but check this out.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html


Thank u those are things i wouldn't be able to learn without you. I will be cautious when choosing a sire and such.


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> May i say that yes i know i am very young and not educated. I will do my best though because this is not something that can be learned over night. You got to give me a chance to prove myself not some little girl who wants to backyard breed, but as someone who wants to enjoy her pup while she can. My pup wont be a pup forever and some thoughts aren't going to change my mind about breeding. I know i can manage if i learn everything i can. I have plenty of time so i minds well use it


Gee Ashhur - You may not have time to raise a litter of puppies. At the rate you're going you might be busy running for President of the United States in a couple of years  And, more power to you! I really admire you the strengths you have for someone your age. I really don't know anyone your age that can direct a flock of adult GSD owners back to topic when they stray....and very politely too!

Since you're here and there are a lot of experienced people here, do you have any questions to ask about your puppy? I'm sure you'll get some pretty good suggestions.


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## ashhur

Yes actually lol  i was wondering does platz mean down in German? I asked google and said it meant place. All this time i thought it meant down lol. I taught my dog in German except jump
This is a lame question but the only other problem i have is she's focused on killing my cat


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## selzer

ashhur said:


> Yes actually lol  i was wondering does platz mean down in German? I asked google and said it meant place. All this time i thought it meant down lol. I taught my dog in German except jump
> This is a lame question but the only other problem i have is she's focused on killing my cat


 I'll leave the German to the German speakers, though I know the way Americans use the German term "platz" is how we use the English term "down" which is not to be confused with "OFF!" 

Keeping a GSD from killing your cat is a pretty big issue. I am sure some people here have some experience with that, but I am wondering what you parents suggest doing about that?


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## mycobraracr

ashhur said:


> My trainer is in Victorville an hour away sorry i live in SoCal. I just realized u put NorCal lol



Okay, I will be in Lancaster in March for and SDA trial. You should come check it out. Also there are lots of clubs in SoCal. Check out Adlerstein Kennels. Tons of knowledge there.


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## ashhur

mycobraracr said:


> Okay, I will be in Lancaster in March for and SDA trial. You should come check it out. Also there are lots of clubs in SoCal. Check out Adlerstein Kennels. Tons of knowledge there.


I'll convince my dad lol sure I'd be happy too


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## ashhur

mycobraracr said:


> Okay, I will be in Lancaster in March for and SDA trial. You should come check it out. Also there are lots of clubs in SoCal. Check out Adlerstein Kennels. Tons of knowledge there.


My dad said we'll introduce them. He'll have my dog (tightly) and I'll walk in with the cat


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## Jax08

ashhur said:


> My dad said we'll introduce them. He'll have my dog (tightly) and I'll walk in with the cat


Umm...no. Please don't do that. If that cat decides to freak, he will rip you up if you are holding him. You are better off putting the cat in a crate to introduce them.


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## ashhur

Jax08 said:


> Umm...no. Please don't do that. If that cat decides to freak, he will rip you up if you are holding him. You are better off putting the cat in a crate to introduce them.


When we first brought him as a kitten my older dog was alive and she came running after him he just stood there all cool and u know what. The next day they were besties lol I'll try another way probaly lol


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> When we first brought him as a kitten my older dog was alive and she came running after him he just stood there all cool and u know what. The next day they were besties lol I'll try another way probaly lol


I'm sure you understand about introducing them in a way where the cat is protected though. Some dogs have what is called a prey drive and they just lose their heads when they see anything small and furry running - cats included.

Has your puppy come into her first heat yet? I forget how old you said she was.


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## ashhur

No not yet but soon she's 6 months lol wont be bred then that's way unhealthy lol


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## ashhur

Stonevintage said:


> I'm sure you understand about introducing them in a way where the cat is protected though. Some dogs have what is called a prey drive and they just lose their heads when they see anything small and furry running - cats included.
> 
> Has your puppy come into her first heat yet? I forget how old you said she was.


Yea i get it infact she has a very high prey drive thats why i will find another way lol


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> No not yet but soon she's 6 months lol wont be bred then that's way unhealthy lol


Under 2 years is not good because they are still not adults yet themselves. There was someone looking for help here the other night because there was an accidental breeding when the mom was only 1.5 years old. 5 of the 9 puppies died. 

The heat is not really a big deal. My pup's had 2 so far and I managed to put enough old shower curtains and stuff down for her in the house that there was no mess. I ran around a lot though with a little spray bottle of a little bleach and water and rags to wipe up drips on the hard floors. As you know, you can't let them out of your sight for a second when they are in heat. Do you keep her inside or how do you keep here when you're gone?


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## ashhur

Well she has a fenced in backyard no way she can get out


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## cloudpump

ashhur said:


> Well she has a fenced in backyard no way she can get out


I wouldn't worry about her getting out. How high is the fence?


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## ashhur

4 feet i believe


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## selzer

ashhur said:


> Well she has a fenced in backyard no way she can get out


 Not when she goes in heat, she doesn't. Not only will the rangy mangy border collie mix down the road scale your fence, but she will dig under, climb over, jump over, squeeze through, or entice the neighbor kid to let her out to go and meet the boy half-way. 

Not only is this a great way to get the love of your life slaughtered in the road, but, if she survives, you may be looking at a litter of 17 mixed breed dogs that no one wants, which at the end of the day, you will have to take probably the majority of them to the shelter, and though they may not tell you, many of them might be put down just because there is no space for them. 

Please don't let that happen. 

If you leave a bitch in your fenced yard, it is almost guaranteed to happen. 

If you ever do want to breed, you will lose much credibility with people who are in a position to work with you, however young you are, if they know you bred a mixed breed litter with an under-aged bitch-pup and then had to let many of the land in the shelter. People in your location will know about this, and they will talk, and it will follow you around for a long time, so, please do not let this happen.


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## Magwart

ashhur said:


> 4 feet i believe


For an adolescent GSD, that's a fun obstacle to sail over, not a barrier. I've seen an adolescent F scale even a 6' chain-link fence though, climbing it like it was a ladder, then launching herself off the top.

When they're puppies, it's really hard to imagine how athletic and powerful they'll soon become.


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## Stonevintage

My female when we were in Texas wasn't getting along with the other ranch dogs so they had a 12'x6'x6' high kennel we put her in. Two weeks later - my sister in law called me over to the window and said you gotta see this. My female was climbing the chain link fence and just about at the top. When she got to the top she let her body slide down so her front paws were sliding down the fence rail and she just hopped to the ground.

Yea, she had gotten out and got pregnant. So, that area is where she had her litter. Daily - she climbed that 6 foot fence when she wanted a break from nursing the puppies - no big deal for her....


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## NancyJ

I had one simply tear the chain link off of a dog run. He broke the clips and got enough loose to get out.


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## ashhur

Stonevintage said:


> My female when we were in Texas wasn't getting along with the other ranch dogs so they had a 12'x6'x6' high kennel we put her in. Two weeks later - my sister in law called me over to the window and said you gotta see this. My female was climbing the chain link fence and just about at the top. When she got to the top she let her body slide down so her front paws were sliding down the fence rail and she just hopped to the ground.
> 
> Yea, she had gotten out and got pregnant. So, that area is where she had her litter. Daily - she climbed that 6 foot fence when she wanted a break from nursing the puppies - no big deal for her....


Dang wow I'll make sure i do something when she goes in heat lol


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> 4 feet i believe


ashhur - you are posting on a site where there's everyone from breeders that have been breeding German Shepherds for 40 or more years. There are trainers that even the most experienced go to for help.

Do you see? Are your eyes open? I hope so. You need to talk to your dad about extra confinement when your girl has her "season". It's really important! A 4/5 foot fence is not going to be enough to protect her. Please be open to this!


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## NancyJ

Even if she is in a kennel she can't get out, dogs have been known to breed through the chain link. Seriously. She needs to be kept inside and taken out supervised.


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> Dang wow I'll make sure i do something when she goes in heat lol


Is she allowed to come into the house right now, like to stay the night? that's the first question.


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## ashhur

Stonevintage said:


> Is she allowed to come into the house right now, like to stay the night? that's the first question.


If its under 40 degrees yes. She has a doghouse on hotter nights


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> If its under 40 degrees yes. She has a doghouse on hotter nights


Well that's great. So when she comes in heat will she be able to stay in a blocked off room in your house when you guys are gone? Do you have a little laundry room or something you can block off to keep her there. It takes about 3/4 weeks till it's ok and safe again. A pain, I know - but it's just the way it is.


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## cloudpump

Shes 6 months and outside? Has this been since you've gotten her?


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## ashhur

Yes she has and i will talk it over with my dad where to put her lol


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## cloudpump

ashhur said:


> Yes she has and i will talk it over with my dad where to put her lol


I wish you luck in your future endeavors.


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## ashhur

Thank u


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## Stonevintage

ashhur said:


> Thank u


Cool beans!:hug: I gotta go awesome one. Good Night


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## ashhur

Stonevintage said:


> Cool beans!:hug: I gotta go awesome one. Good Night


Good night :hug:


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## creegh

You've been given a lot of good advice. 

Let me give you a slightly different perspective from another young breeder. 

I'm coming to German Shepherds and dog sports from horses. 

I'm third generation breeder in my horse breed. One of the great things about my breed is that they pass it down - the breeding lines are a family thing and in many instances it's the third and fourth generation now continuing their family's line. 

I got raised that way. My grandpa dragged me along to all the shows and pony meetings, I grew up drinking tea why the old lads talked ponies. He'd give me a studbook to occupy myself when he was supposed to be babysitting me and I'd make pedigree charts (and get annoyed when we didn't have a studbook that I needed to go back farther).

I bred my first pony at 15 with my dad's help. He had veto power if he didn't think the cross would work and I had to explain WHY I choose that particular cross. (Studley is a pretty color and so sweet would not have worked).

I bred my first pony on my own at 19. 

By 20 I was on the breeding awards committee. I was writing history and mareline articles for our breed magazine. 

Breeding is as much art as it is science. 

And you need to be prepared for things to go wrong - because when they go wrong they go HORRIBLY wrong. We've had mares die foaling, foals die. And I've seen some seriously weird freaky random stuff happen to breeder friends - foals born without kidneys, foals born with holes in their hearts, foal tripping and breaking their **** necks, yearlings running into the fence. 

(And this is from top quality breeders who have safe fencing, safe stalls, feed quality food, vet and farrier care is given and no expense is spared).

So my advice to you is just enjoy your puppy. 

Learn about the breed - learn the history, the bloodlines. Learn about dog sports and find what sport you like to participate in be it IPO, Agility, SDA, Rally, Obedience, Herding, Dock diving, Barn hunt you name it. Have fun and learn. 

See as many dogs as you can. Figure out what kind of dogs and bloodlines interest you. 

Save up in the future and buy the best dog you can and get a good breeder to mentor you. Train that dog. Title that dog. Test for DM. Get its hips and elbows done. Breed survey it. Do all the right things. The dog - the breed - and yourself deserve no less. 

It's already been said that your current pups bloodlines are not up to par with what most reputable breeders would consider to be worthy of breeding on. There are so many sub-par german shepherds in the world whose great-granddaddy was a champion. 

Stack the deck in your favor (the dogs too). 

Breeding is expensive. It is heartbreaking at times. It is always risky.

A lot of people who don't know better look at a responsible breeder and go "Wow! Suzy Q just had 9 puppies and sold them all for 2K?! She made 18K ON ONE LITTER? She's making bank with dogs!"

They don't understand the time and effort and expense it takes to get a bitch health tested titled and proven and then bred to the correct health titled and proven sire to produce healthy pups that they can be sold for 2K. 

So enjoy your current puppy. Enjoy training her. Enjoy learning about the breed. Then someday look for a good quality pup you can use as a breeding prospect.


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## vomlittlehaus

Just reading through this thread. A quick search on OFFA.ORG and nothing for hips on her parents.


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