# What do they breed?



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

I've noticed this for quite a while now.

Some breeder sites you go to will say something like this, "[insert] kennel, west german show lines". BUT, I have noticed some breeder sites, actually a lot of them, do not specify what kind of german shepherds they breed.

My question is, why is it that not all or more breeders of german shepherds do not specify what kinds of german shepherds they breed? Or, is it really the potential buyer or site visitor's responsibility to figure it out?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

West German show lines are just that. They are not working line dogs, but can and have been used for SAR dogs, police dogs, performance dogs, schutzhund dogs, pet dogs, show dogs. They may mark some of the pups they have sold's accomplishments on their site, show ratings, obedience titles, etc. My friend is not breeding for police dogs or cadaver dogs, or war dogs, but she has produced some that have been used and some are still used in those capacities.

I think a show line breeder is going to be more focused on the pedigrees and the accomplishments (specifically show ratings) of dogs in their pedigrees. And they will showcase their dog's type -- large ears, good feet, heavy bone. Whatever. But they generally do not say, we are breeding for large ears and good feet. If anything they will say something to the fact that they are breeding for health and longevity, or health and conformation, or health and temperament. 

Working line breeders are going to be more focused on what their dogs have been trained for/worked in, an their main focus in pedigrees will be the titles or working dogs in the pedigree. And they may have information on what their dogs are out their doing. These people are going to be more likely to specifically say something like, breeding for protection and companionship.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Maybe because it is supposed to be the same breed with the same standard and those that don't say assume the buyer will recognize what they have or worse thought, don't know there are so much variety and are therefore a BYB, its a case of buyer beware


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

trudy said:


> Maybe because it is supposed to be the same breed with the same standard and those that don't say assume the buyer will recognize what they have or *worse thought, don't know there are so much variety and are therefore a BYB, its a case of buyer beware*


So you are saying that it's not the potential buyer's responsibility to figure it, rather the breeder is indeed supposed to make it clear what line or lines they breed?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If a breeder isn't putting up information on their site, you can usually tell the lines(or mix of lines) by the look of the dogs. 
I would rather see a pedigree/registered name listed, so I can further my research. If the breeder can't even supply that on the site, then I'll just pass on them. 
Some breeders don't even know what they are breeding. Easy enough to see by the information they supply.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If it is saying West German Show Lines, that is what lines they are breeding. Are you talking about bloodlines? Lots of people list pedigrees and if not, they can discuss that over the phone. 

I guess I do not understand your question. 

Is it when people just have AKC German Shepherd listed? Yeah, that could be anything, the buyer needs to ask if they want to know. Some breeders do NOT know what their dogs lines are, or what mixture they have, not well enough to discuss them. 

I argued back and forth with someone that she had a German Showline dog, but because of all the schutzhund titles, she thought it was working lines.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

selzer said:


> If it is saying West German Show Lines, that is what lines they are breeding. Are you talking about bloodlines? Lots of people list pedigrees and if not, they can discuss that over the phone.
> 
> I guess I do not understand your question.
> 
> ...


That was an example of someone having what they breed on there site, the western german showlines example. I guess I didn't word the question right.

What I'm saying is, okay let's say you have a breeder and you go to their site. The first thing you see is, now it's just an example and I am not talking about a particular breeder, but you see "Blah blah blah *Working Dogs*".

What I'm talking about is breeders who don't have that on their site, they don't clarify what kind of german shepherds they are breeding. Working dogs isn't exactly the most specific, they could breeding Czech, DDR, etc, but it's better than just saying "Blah blah blah German Shepherds"? 

Is that worded better?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, the working line dogs have many lines, yes, DDR, West German Working line, etc, etc. If I wanted a working line dog, I would definitely want to know which type of working lines they are producing. 

The West German Showline is what it is.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

GSD Fan said:


> So you are saying that it's not the potential buyer's responsibility to figure it, rather the breeder is indeed supposed to make it clear what line or lines they breed?


I'm sorry, but no. It is ALWAYS the potential buyer's responsibility to research. It is no one's responsibility to do that for them or spoon feed them information and there are no rules about what a breeder is supposed to put on a website or make clear. If lines are an important factor, but someone isn't knowledgeable and experienced enough to know the lines by looking at photos and pedigrees, then all they have to do is ask.

If a breeder doesn't know themselves what lines they have, then yes that would be a concern and I believe that is what Trudy is referring to would raise warning bells. Clearly breeders should always know what lines they are breeding and be able to define them. But that doesn't necessarily mean they have to plaster it on a website.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

GSD Fan said:


> Working dogs isn't exactly the most specific, they could breeding Czech, DDR, etc, but it's better than just saying "Blah blah blah German Shepherds"?
> 
> Is that worded better?


That is to be too specific for me. With a few exceptions, and most probably those will stat that int their websites, working lines breeders have a mix of bloodlines.

Here, GSD fanciers speak of having showlines or working lines. Only if you talk about specific bloodlines you mention origin. You don't present your dog saying, hi, this is Boris, 75% west German, 12.5% Czech, 12.5% DDR. It is a working line GSD and that is.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

selzer said:


> Ok, the working line dogs have many lines, yes, DDR, West German Working line, etc, etc. If I wanted a working line dog, I would definitely want to know which type of working lines they are producing.


I would say most working line breeders out there don't specialize in one of those types but may have dogs with some of all of those in their pedigrees. Yes there are the "pure Czech" and "pure DDR" breeders, but they are a minority. And even then if you look at the pedigrees of those dogs, those "pure Czech" dogs for example often have other lines mixed in in recent generations.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Catu beat me to it. Yeah, what she said.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Also keep in mind that some breeders breed _dogs_, not lines. If a breeder is breeding dogs for a specific task or to fulfill their personal ideal of the breed standard, they might not be breeding one specific line. They might take dogs from different lines that they like and mix them to get the kind of dog they desire.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Yeah, what Emoore said also.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Hopefully the breeder knows what they are doing when combining lines, and not just breeding to breed...that seems to be more common than not, unfortunately.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Well, the way I see it, with the genetic diversity that is bought in, they can't do much worse, than the separate lines has become, in pigeon holing the breed into specific types. Everyone of these "lines" will start a downward spiral in my opinion, sooner or later. Some are already there, some you can see getting there, and some the really astute can see getting there albeit a slower process because of the emphasis on performance. Still, in the end genetics, (or should I say the lack of genetic diversity), will win out over type and like. 
So hopefully, more people will do compensation breeding genetically, instead of the flavor of the month/year in the line that is already saturated.


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