# I just need some advice



## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

I have a beautiful 10 month old GSD. I love him very much and this is very much painful for me to write. My boyfriend and I live in the city with our dog and as he got older, we started to come to terms that he is weak nerves. He is reactive on the leash and unfortunately, all we can do is manage his behaviour and his environment as I have come to realize that I can never fully change him. I have taken him to classes, spent almost 700 dollars to make him better. He actually did get better but I’m always uncomfortable because his behaviour can be unpredictable. For instance, a woman opened the door for us to get out of the store when she was trying to get in, and my dog barked and lunge. I have him on a prong and corrected him. He gets nervous around strangers whether they are adults or kids. He’s good with people he knows, but this is not what I wanted. I wanted a dog that would not be afraid and would be okay with every new environment (a strong nerve dog). 

I am so sad because I want to enjoy my walks and I want to take him on the train with me whenever I want to change up our walks. But I can’t for fear that he might act out. I am going to talk to our trainer about further but it seems dismal since we cannot change his genes. 

My boyfriend and I have thought of rehoming him to the countryside where he doesn’t have to deal with so much stimuli because I can see he gets stressed out because our neighbourhood is busy and I can’t change my life situation. I love dogs, and I don’t want to do this but I also don’t want him to be unhappy - his fearfulness is not working in our busy life situation in the city and I also don’t want it to become a safety issue either due to the close proximity of people in the city. 

Could I be making the right choice? 

We are thinking through this idea. I feel so stupid because this is my first dog and I had no idea about breeding and genes and I realized we blindly chose this dog from the breeder without realizing how important it is to consider those genes especially in a dog with a Defense and prey drive. I just had no idea - they say it’s all in how they are raised but clearly genes mattered in this case. He is well trained in other aspects but his fearful reactivity is what sets him back.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If you got the dog from a good breeder, contact them and ask if they will take him back. It is probably a combination of genetics and handling. You are inexperienced and didn’t know the signs until his behaviors were established. Don’t feel too bad about it. I’ve made mistakes and I’m experienced. It’s how you deal with them and correct that makes the difference between a socialized dog and a dangerous one. German Shepherds are supposed to show some human aggression but it should be controlled. 

If the breeder can’t take him back, contact a local rescue and see what they suggest. The other solution is to find a trainer with a lot of German Shepherd behavior experience and work very hard to get your dog more used to situations you find. German Shepherds aren’t all “ go everywhere” dogs. If you rehome him and get another dog ask a lot of questions here before you do. You might be happier with a different breed or finding a very solid dog with good nerves and working from day 1 with a good trainer.


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## asibley (Jul 19, 2017)

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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

How about muzzle training him?

There is nothing wrong with not being compatible with a specific dog. Rehoming him might be a blessing for the both of you. You deserve to be happy and so does your dog. 

Dogs are very much their genetics. Don't fall for the raising and training mantra chanted by so many especially when you are new to dogs.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

What type of training have you done? All breed group type or? Socialisation, how did you approach it? Gsds are an aloof breed and there are some training methods commonly used that can backfire i.e. Having pups meet n greet X amount of people over X amount of time. Every dog is different and not all training is a good fit. Try another trainer well versed with gsds and get another perspective.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

asibley said:


> I suggest your accept your mistakes and euthanize the dog yourself. I believe that is more humane than abandoning (re-homing) him. Taking a life is hard for a lot of people but you essentially brought him into the world. He's your responsibility. Try to do better next time.


That is an extreme solution. What prior experience do you base that on? In my experience, a dog that has not yet bitten a person can be rehabilitated and rehomed with the right owner. I took in a foster that had broken a woman’s arm and kept him until he passed from old age. Killing a dog because the owner and dog are not compatible is not the first or best solution. It should be a last resort.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Yeah, euthanasia is a far reach. I’d also love to hear how that is the best plan for a 6 month old puppy? 

I have rehabilitated many different breeds, at different ages, and kept two that everyone in my family would tell me to put down, it was an impossible dog to rehabilitate. We currently have a GSD now that would easily fit into your box of “just euthanize it.” Management goes hand in hand with training. I am NOT a trainer, nor a professional, I was just raised with Rotts, and haven’t really feared any dog. Except maybe the pits charging at us unleashed. 

As a puppy, a great trainer experienced in the bred can correct a lot of issues, and if there are issues that aren’t correctable with training, they are normally issues that are fine with management. 

OP, do a a search on the forum for “aggressive dogs” and you’ll see a wealth of information on management, and see that your pup is just being a pup.


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## asibley (Jul 19, 2017)

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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

No. Sorry, you’re not convincing me that re-homing a dog is terrible, and that they’d be better off dead. That’s ridiculous.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Wow.. To assume euthanasia is the best choice before looking into any other avenue.. Just.. WOW.. Dogs may not be intellectually aware to the extent we are, but they fight for life and love and want to live.. To take their life because you think they can't be happy or safe except with you (general you not specific you) is extremely arrogant. There are tons of great homes available and people who won't ever abandon their animals. And finding a better fitting home is not abandoning an animal, it is actually enhancing the enjoyment for that animal and new owner.. That mindset would never have a shelter dog adopted, a puppy from a breeder bought or even a dog on the street aided...


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## asibley (Jul 19, 2017)

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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

OP, I am sorry you are going through this. You have already been given some good advice. The only thing I can add, the only other alternative - continue to manage him. Accept who he is. He isn't a go everywhere kind of dog. Change your expectations. We don't always get the dog we thought we would. 

I had one dog aggressive GSD. I walked her with a prong, muzzle and two leashes. (When people saw her coming, they crossed to the other side of the street.) I avoided other dogs and taught her to ignore them. She lived a good, long, but somewhat restrictive life. She didn't know the difference. She was with us and was happy enough.

My current, mostly, GSD is weak nerved. She needs to be in her safe space. Her safe spaces include the house, yard and car. She loves to ride in the car, but hates walks. Walks are scary. I need to respect her thresholds, as you need to respect your boys'.

I realize that management is not for everyone. With my two problem dogs, it wasn't a big deal. Only you can decide what is best for you and your dog. There is no shame in rehoming. If you do go that route, please ensure he goes to a good home. Make a contract. Do a home check, vet check, and references. Charge a small rehoming fee. Be a safety net - put in the contract that he must be returned to you, should the new owner decide to give him up. 

Wishing you all the best.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I suggest sharing your location. A member may be able to recommend a trainer who can evaluate your dog, and your handling of your dog. A handler changing their mindset from being uncertain/fearful/worried to confident can make a difference.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

asibley said:


> It's more a moral judgement. I think people need to see their dogs through to the end. I've seen countless owners carelessly acquire dogs only to abandon them on a whim. I understand the desire to save dogs from euthanasia and death, but they are dogs. They can't comprehend their mortality the way people do. I think it's better for dogs lives to end peacefully than for owners to abandon them to prolonged periods of fear, uncertainty, and in most cases probably eventual euthanasia.


That is your opinion and I appreciate that we obviously disagree. I don’t believe a dog should have a death sentence because it’s not a match for the owner. A dangerous dog that can’t be trained or handled might need to be PTS. But having the wrong owner? Rescues are there, in part, to step in when an owner can’t handle a dog. We don’t know this dog is dangerous. We know the OP said she can’t handle the dog, so give the dog a chance with a different owner.

One of the most heartbreaking things I ever saw online was on another site where a young woman with her first German Shepherd overtrained a puppy. By 12 months, the dog was coming up the leash on the handler and was out of control. A woman out of state offered to take the dog but the owner was in a rush to euthanize. So, a baby with a life history of poor handling was killed because it was not matched with the right owner.


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## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

Nigel said:


> What type of training have you done? All breed group type or? Socialisation, how did you approach it? Gsds are an aloof breed and there are some training methods commonly used that can backfire i.e. Having pups meet n greet X amount of people over X amount of time. Every dog is different and not all training is a good fit. Try another trainer well versed with gsds and get another perspective.


When we first got our puppy, he was very shy. We had people feed him treats to make him comfortable. But then at 10 weeks old was lunging, barking, snapping at people who tried to touch him (mainly strangers when we went for walks). We managed this by eventually taking him to a trainer specialized with working breed dogs (GSDs and Mals) and he really helped us out with the prong. But he still has occasional outbursts (at least once per walk) and he’s still nervous but better than before for sure. But it requires constant scanning of the environment to know what’s coming up next.


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## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

LuvShepherds said:


> If you got the dog from a good breeder, contact them and ask if they will take him back. It is probably a combination of genetics and handling. You are inexperienced and didn’t know the signs until his behaviors were established. Don’t feel too bad about it. I’ve made mistakes and I’m experienced. It’s how you deal with them and correct that makes the difference between a socialized dog and a dangerous one. German Shepherds are supposed to show some human aggression but it should be controlled.
> 
> If the breeder can’t take him back, contact a local rescue and see what they suggest. The other solution is to find a trainer with a lot of German Shepherd behavior experience and work very hard to get your dog more used to situations you find. German Shepherds aren’t all “ go everywhere” dogs. If you rehome him and get another dog ask a lot of questions here before you do. You might be happier with a different breed or finding a very solid dog with good nerves and working from day 1 with a good trainer.


I appreciate your response. It is very hard for me to come to terms with the possibility of letting him. I love him so much, I’ve cried and cried over this possibility. I am going to really think about this possibility as best as I can. My boyfriend thinks maybe when he’s older he’ll be better with more training is that a possibility? But probably the fear thing will just be there ...


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## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> OP, I am sorry you are going through this. You have already been given some good advice. The only thing I can add, the only other alternative - continue to manage him. Accept who he is. He isn't a go everywhere kind of dog. Change your expectations. We don't always get the dog we thought we would.
> 
> I had one dog aggressive GSD. I walked her with a prong, muzzle and two leashes. (When people saw her coming, they crossed to the other side of the street.) I avoided other dogs and taught her to ignore them. She lived a good, long, but somewhat restrictive life. She didn't know the difference. She was with us and was happy enough.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! Yes, I believe if we decide to give him up we will be making a contract. I don’t want him to end up in a shelter. I want him in a proper home with the right owner, if this is the route I must take. I will ensure he comes back to me if the owner cannot take care of him because I love this dog so much it truly aches my heart that I have been thinking this way.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

A 10 mo old is still a puppy. From looking at the training that the OP has done and the out and about ---- it sounds like a lot to expect a young pup to handle. On the other hand, my almost 6 yo has a wild child side. She showed it to me tonight -- over the top with drive, leaky, nutso. Close to correct but nutty. Like a leap at my face on the command to finish from a front, like biting at my training vest when moving into position === like totally crazy for the wall. Obviously, I need to change something up. Maybe several things. 



Perhaps the 10 mo pup needs a more structured job/walk. Maybe he needs people to leave him alone when he's out. Maybe he needs some sort of heavy duty club work. I would be tempted to walk him more away from people for now. Find a time and place with few people, a place where you can work at a distance. And people do not need to pet him, to offer him treats. He might be world's better if you stopped expecting that of him. There is nothing wrong with "do not pet my dog".


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

OP, did your trainer recommend a job for the pup? Or tell you that he didn’t have the drive to be a working dog? If the trainer was familiar with working dogs, he should have been able to point out that your expectations of a 10 month old pup are way too high, and the personality you seem to be seeking is more in line with a non working breed. Shepherds are notorious for being aloof to strangers, and strange dogs. I would never be okay with strangers rushing up to meet my dogs. I don’t want a stranger rushing up to me, invading my personal space, and excitedly rubbing and petting me. Why would your dog be any different? I just find it hard to believe the trainer was the right fit for you and your pup if they didn’t give you recommendations for exercising, training (without just jumping to a prong), and the basic needs and personality traits most GSD display. 

It sounds to me like you are wanting a more social and outgoing dog, friendly to strangers invading their space. It’s rare random luck to find a GSD that laid back. You should look in to other breeds like labs or Golden’s, that are bred to be fun loving, good with most people and animals type of breed. Rehoming a GSD because you realize you bit off more than you can chew, and realizing the breed wasn’t a good personal choice for your needs makes you a better person, not a person you should be ashamed of, or made to feel guilty over it. I’m sure we have all been in over our heads a time or two, you just need to sit down and see if you are going to be okay having a dog that doesn’t meet your pet needs, and a dog that will need more management than other breeds. But make the choice that you feel is right, and don’t let yourself or others beat you down for doing what you feel is right for your family, and the dog you’ve welcomed into your family.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

While you are deciding what the best course is for your pup, and managing his need for personal space I think that in doing so you will be helping your own sense of comfort. It's really hard to gain control appropriately of a 10 m old pup while one is in a fearful or uncomfortable state. Gaining selfcontol takes a lot of time and practice on the human/new owner side and it isn't easy. I'm talking sincerely and compassionately because of my own experiences with my boy and his need to extra space, his temperament and how my own temperament comes into play and how it affected him.

I think that you are approaching this realistically and out of love for your pup. So while you sort it out, work on your bond, work on "look at me" focus exercises. Work on self discipline training exercises with him at home i.e. He has to sit while you do something he wants to do or you have something he wants, for a few seconds, then tell him to come or offer that thing. Etc. this will teach him self discipline and focus on you. Maybe drive him outside of the city where there are fewer people, less activity so you can set yourself up for success. And If a muzzle will help alleviate your own stress, muzzle train him (get help from your trainer so it is a good experience not a bad one.)so you can enjoy each other's company while out and about until you get this sorted.

I think a lot of GSD pups will lunge out of fear especially when the leash tightens. It doesn't necessarily mean they will bite but you can't take that chance. It is frightening. I think though he may just need to be taught skills that will enable him to make better choices. It is quite complex for novice owners like myself who had to weed through it all.

I wish you the best outcome for both you and your pup.


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

asibley said:


> I suggest your accept your mistakes and euthanize the dog yourself. I believe that is more humane than abandoning (re-homing) him... He's your responsibility. Try to do better next time.


I suggest that perhaps _you_ should "try to do better next time" by not posting something quite so asinine. Jeez, you dont exactly come across as much of a dog lover. A wee bit of advice if I may... The next time you feel an overwhelming urge to post something this crappy and hurtful, please try to refrain from posting anything at all. 

Glen
www.FocusOnNewfoundland.com


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

tinam said:


> I have a beautiful 10 month old GSD. I love him very much and this is very much painful for me to write. My boyfriend and I live in the city with our dog and as he got older, we started to come to terms that he is weak nerves. He is reactive on the leash and unfortunately, all we can do is manage his behaviour and his environment as I have come to realize that I can never fully change him. I have taken him to classes, spent almost 700 dollars to make him better. He actually did get better but I’m always uncomfortable because his behaviour can be unpredictable. For instance, a woman opened the door for us to get out of the store when she was trying to get in, and my dog barked and lunge. I have him on a prong and corrected him. He gets nervous around strangers whether they are adults or kids. He’s good with people he knows, but this is not what I wanted. I wanted a dog that would not be afraid and would be okay with every new environment (a strong nerve dog).
> 
> I am so sad because I want to enjoy my walks and I want to take him on the train with me whenever I want to change up our walks. But I can’t for fear that he might act out. I am going to talk to our trainer about further but it seems dismal since we cannot change his genes.
> 
> ...


First of all stop beating yourself up. We all make mistakes, we don't learn from our successes. 

I live with a reactive, fear aggressive, happy little mess I named Shadow. It was a learning curve for both of us. 
For the first two years of her life I dragged her out for walks every day, twice a day like a good dog owner should. NOTHING worked. She was often terrified to the point of being catatonic. She was unresponsive to any training method known to mankind, and as she matured she got violent about "protecting" herself from invasions to her space. The walks got less frequent and she learned to wear a muzzle when we went anywhere. Then for a couple of years we never left the yard, and she was happy! She relaxed, matured, learned and we discovered the truly sweet, shy dog that she was. 
She grew comfortable with visitors and guests and we grew into each other. I learned, she learned and we learned together. 
I have anxiety issues, and I went through some real personal issues that forced us to step outside our bubble A LOT! 
I had a huge cheering section right here on this forum that pushed and talked and addressed our failures and celebrated our successes. 
Shadow is nearly 9 now. We are still careful but the progress she has made is amazing and I could not be more proud of her.
You are not alone. If you decide that you need to rehome, we understand. If you want to work through it you are in good company. Ultimately it is your decision, and only you can decide what the right one is.


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## atomic (Mar 28, 2016)

I read something once a long time ago that stuck with me - “no worthwhile endeavor is easy”. I believe that. At ten months old he is still a puppy, he is not hopeless and honestly his issues are fairly common. I have a GSD Doberman mix who while he couldn’t care less about people, he is very dog reactive. He will bark growl and lunge like a mad dog if he encounters another dog in public. I can take him to restaurants and such, but he hates being still. He always wants to be on the move. So I stopped taking him to uncomfortable scenarios for him and he is my dedicated hiking buddy now. We rarely encounter anyone in the woods and he just loves loves the technical challenge of hiking the mountainous back country. 

My GSD just turned one and he is my socialite. He loves to go out and about and will calmly accept attention from people and dogs alike. He is happy to lay under a table for an hour while I have some lunch. All dogs like people are different and have varying levels of what they are comfortable with and what they are not. If you mentioned your general location there are people here who would be more than happy to suggest a breed experienced trainer to consult with.


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## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks to all that have posted. I am currently seeing a trainer again in August (same one) who did really help improve his reactivity a lot. I live in Toronto, Canada if anybody has any suggestions (wouldn’t mind to know if anybody has some).


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Anxiety medication may (or not) be appropriate, something you can talk to your trainer and vet about.


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## Leigh Fields (Mar 23, 2019)

I would like to commend you, you seem like such an outstanding owner. You are doing everything in your power, doing all the right things by this dog. You should be proud of yourself, not a lot of people do this. You've gotten some great advice and it sounds like no matter what you are going to do right by the dog. I wish you all the best, and I wish I could give you some words to ease your pain/anxiety about all of it. Hang in there and keep us all in the loop.


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

I would recommend finding a trainer who uses many tools- and isn't super attached to the prong. 

I use a slip lead or "dominant dog" collar. You can find them and research how to properly use one (very important). I often use a slip lead because my dogs are mostly off leash (e-collar trained) or pulling in harness, so the slip lead is an obvious signal of relax and don't pull. 

E-collar can also help with some of the OB, particularly when you are pairing a big powerful dog with a smaller human, but in a city it would not be my go-to for a reactive, large shepherd. 

Tyler Muto isn't too far from you in Toronto- he's in Buffalo. I think Shield K9 (Haz) is also in that vicinity- in Canada. I'd look into him first.

And you are right, there is no 100% fix for a dog like this. If you wanted a dog you can take to the beach and the park and dog events and just be able to chill and make friends with other dog people and watch dogs play, he isn't your guy. He'd be happier in a country setting where he gets to work or do some sort of job that is right for his particular temperament. It's best to rehome him young if you make that decision, with full disclosure of his quirks.

And I second using a muzzle for peace of mind and to prevent any sort of incident while you are making your decision.

All the best to you, you are doing far more for this boy than many would, so thanks for making an effort. 

Genetics are HUGE in defensive/protective breeds- so don't blame yourself too much. Just do right by this dog, whatever you decide that is.


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## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

Leigh Fields said:


> I would like to commend you, you seem like such an outstanding owner. You are doing everything in your power, doing all the right things by this dog. You should be proud of yourself, not a lot of people do this. You've gotten some great advice and it sounds like no matter what you are going to do right by the dog. I wish you all the best, and I wish I could give you some words to ease your pain/anxiety about all of it. Hang in there and keep us all in the loop.


I really appreciate this. I’ve cried so many times this week because the possibility is there. I’m going to be talking to my trainer this week and all I want to do is the right thing for my dog. I want others to be safe but also I want him to be happy. It is a very painful time for me and this post really made me feel supported, thank you. I’ve been working hard on him since the time he’s been 8 weeks old. I’m getting so tired and burnt out.


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## BUBBAGSD (Jul 16, 2010)

hi tinam

If you can travel here are two trainers that can help you one is out windsor way , very good behaviourist who breeds shepherds, malinois.
Dog Training Windsor Ontario with Professional Dog Trainer and Dog Breeder Mike Beckett. 21st Century K9.
the other is out Woodstock way also a german shepherd breeder Zorra County K-9 Home


good luck


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't know exactly where they are from you, but this guy helped me huge with Shadow and he did it all online. 
Dog Training in Kitchener Waterloo Cambridge Guelph
I could not find a decent trainer anywhere near me and I was pulling my hair out from sheer frustration. I said if I ever got the chance to recommend them I would. All I know is what he did for me.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

As you continue to work with your pup be aware of your "body language". Dogs are experts at reading it and they can pick up on subtle changes in handling. If you're nervous, they'll know it and this can affect how they'll interpret and react to their environment.


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

middleofnowhere said:


> A 10 mo old is still a puppy. From looking at the training that the OP has done and the out and about ---- it sounds like a lot to expect a young pup to handle. On the other hand, my almost 6 yo has a wild child side. She showed it to me tonight -- over the top with drive, leaky, nutso. Close to correct but nutty. Like a leap at my face on the command to finish from a front, like biting at my training vest when moving into position === like totally crazy for the wall. Obviously, I need to change something up. Maybe several things.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps the 10 mo pup needs a more structured job/walk. Maybe he needs people to leave him alone when he's out. Maybe he needs some sort of heavy duty club work. I would be tempted to walk him more away from people for now. Find a time and place with few people, a place where you can work at a distance. And people do not need to pet him, to offer him treats. He might be world's better if you stopped expecting that of him. There is nothing wrong with "do not pet my dog".



All of this. 



I would also suggest the following:


1. Dogs with anxiety don't need corrections. You can't correct fear out of a dog. They need counter conditioning. Trainers who use correctives should not be considered. 

Check out this: BAT Training for Reactive Dogs

That website has certified trainers. See if there are any near you. 

If not, then go here: Karen Pryor Certified Trainers



If that doesn't work, try this: APDT Trainer Search


2. I'd like to see what happens if your pup were left for a weekend or so with a trainer (who doesn't use punishment). My guess is that some of that behavior would dissipate. Why? Dogs mirror our stress


I generally am not a fan of sending dogs off to train, but you've indicated that your pup makes you anxious, and if you're anxious, then pup is more anxious, and it becomes a vicious cycle. But to trust someone with our dogs, we have to ensure that the person is reputable, absolutely committed to never using corrections (not even on other people's dogs) and highly trained. This can't be someone we just find off the internet. 



3. Muzzle training will reduce your anxiety. If you're not afraid the dog can harm someone, it should be less frightening to take the pup out. 



I always tell people that I muzzle train all my dogs, even my sweet little beagles. Every dog should know how to wear a muzzle comfortably. You should be comfortable having your dog muzzled. If other people freak out when they see a muzzled dog, good for them. They don't get it. A muzzled dog is more likely to be welcomed on public transit, permitted into a shelter after a disaster and can be handled in any emergency. It's an important life skill for dogs. Let's start that now. This way, you can walk your dog safely. 



I use a tall plastic or paper cup about the size of the dog's muzzle. I fill the bottom with whipped cream or cream cheese and I offer it to them. They plunge their noses in to get the yummy stuff. Repeat over a couple days. Then put some of the yummy substance on the inside of the muzzle, and the dog won't even notice you putting the muzzle on him. He might paw at the muzzle once you buckle it up, but then you immediately take him for a walk even if it's just around the house and yard. Distract him... then do the same thing tomorrow. Within a week or two, your dog will be muzzle trained. Don't leave the house with a dog you don't completely trust unless he's wearing a muzzle. You will be more anxious and that anxiety transmits through the leash, making the dog more anxious. The muzzle is a tool you give yourself AND the dog. 



4. See what the trainer says. Is this a dog that can be rehabilitated by someone other than an experienced owner? Some GSDs are a handful. That doesn't mean they should be euthanized (sigh :frown2. It means that he needs someone that has the experience and time to *manage* and *train* (which are two different things) the dog for the rest of his life. 



5. If the dog needs that sort of owner, kiss him on the nose, give him a hug, pack up his toys and send him on his way. You both deserve a better life than being cooped up at home for years and years. 



6. If he doesn't, then it's time to get busy. It will take time, effort and yes, money, to manage and train this dog. Dogs don't outgrow anxiety. They are managed and trained until they overcome fears and learn more appropriate behaviors.


7. If you keep him and you are successful, you will have learned a lot about yourself, a ton about your dog, and you will be on your way to being one of those people who in the future, people will consider someone who can handle more difficult dogs. But if you can't with this dog, there is no shame in that. We often are given situations too difficult to handle alone.You're not expected to do this on your own. 



Good luck. 



4K9Mom 

formerly 3K9Mom


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## Sahdieh (Sep 13, 2013)

He is just a puppy going through his fright stage ... I went through exactly what you are going through ... spent 2k on trainer ... waste of money ... just give it another 6 months and keep on socializing him ... you will notice drastic change around year and half ...


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## Dudley'sMom (Sep 16, 2018)

My best advice would be to give him some time. We went through the same issues with our boy at the same age, and I was ready to give up too. I am so thankful we did not though! He has come so far, and he is not even 2 years old yet. I have learned that I need to calm my nerves, as he picks up on that. I used to be so nervous about bringing him out and about for fear of what people would think. He picked up on my nervous energy, and he got worse. I thought this sounded silly the first time someone suggested this could happen. Although, after making a conscious effort to be relaxed and trust my dog, he did in fact get better. The other day, we were approached by a man that I felt uncomfortable being around, I got nervous, and he picked up on it. He growled and grumbled at the man, I created some distance between us and him, and the man left. It's crazy what our dogs pick up on. On the contrary, when we are walking and are approached by strangers, I have noticed that when I am calm, so is he. He now even lets new people pet him! I did not think that would be possible a year ago! It truly does make a difference. 

Now, no, I am not saying this changed everything for him. We also have been working hard to decrease his threshold. We started by going to parks and sitting far away from any commotion, and gradually have decreased our distance. If you dog shows that he is uncomfortable, move back to where he is comfortable. Work at his speed, not yours. I found this to be hard, as I wanted him to advance more quickly than he was ready for. We thought we had a dog with weak nerves, and now we are blaming ourselves for not socializing him enough as a puppy, thinking we could have prevented some issues by exposing him to more situations at a younger age. Like you, we paid near $750 for training, and we realized that the best thing we can do is to provide experiences that allow him to see situations he views as stressful from a distance. Once he realizes that he is safe, he is comfortable moving closer. I am so happy we didn't give up on him, as he is getting more confident by the day. I used to be so scared to let kids get near him, and now he loves the neighborhood kids (and they love him). Give your boy a chance to mature and figure out that life isn't as scary as he thinks. It will take some time and effort on your part, and there will be setbacks, but I am so happy we let him take his time to figure things out. We could not be happier with how much he has progressed, and we look forward to more progress that we know he can make. Stick with your dog if you can put the time in to help him. I am so thankful I did not give up when I was where you are at now. Best of luck to you guys! It does get better if you are willing to work with him.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Be careful. Some dogs are scared and soft. Some dogs are scared and hard. That means they will chose flight until they can't and then fight like crazy. It blows up more and more the bigger and more 'practice' the dog gets. 

A trainer needs to come on board with you and the dog and evaluate the team. 

Serious stuff like this needs hands on training.

I concur with everyone else who suggested muzzle training as the first step.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I didn't read all the responses, so sorry if this is repeated, but the pup is 10 months old. This is a time when many folks rehome or dump their dogs in shelters. The problem may be weak nerves. It could be inexperienced owners believing they took an over-priced set of classes and now their dog ought to be perfect. It could be owners who over-stimulated/socialized a puppy and now have a dog that doesn't believe you will protect it. 

This is a puppy. You are expecting totally predictable in a puppy. Well, that's like sending your kid down for the children's moment and not expecting the kid to say anything embarrassing. 

Your pup is ten months old, you HAVE seen improvement. Well, what are you expecting? Lassie? Rin Tin Tin??? It sounds like you want a well-bred Golden temperament in a GSD body. You've taken your Shepherd puppy out and about in your busy neighborhood and to classes and employed a prong collar on it, to get the results you want, and now when it barks and lunges inappropriately, you decide that he is defective and time to find him a place out in the country where defective dogs can be happy. 

Return it to your breeder, and they will probably be able to make a great pet of him, with a little confidence, a little space, a little training, and realistic expectations. 

You've spent $700 and a prong collar and your 10 month old puppy ought to be perfect. Unbelieveable. I am disappointed, not surprised. People give up on people, they give up on dogs. The problem is almost certainly on the human end of the leash. So don't go out and get another GSD puppy. Oh yeah, you can get a working line dog, and it may be initially more confident, but it also may be more likely to take over leadership, because they can tell that you don't know what the bleep you are doing. And, young GSDs, whatever line, sometimes don't make the best decisions. So you are likely to end up with a scary dog even if you go with a very confident puppy. You are probably better off with a bird dog: a lab or a golden or a setter. 

Of course, if you accept that you might be part of the problem, and have half as much loyalty as a GSD, you may be able to take your puppy and work through this adolescent phase, and build his confidence in you and in himself, while training him properly, not just putting on the power steering, and as he naturally matures and improves his behavior and the bond that comes from training, and the mutual trust that is built, in a year you might have the dog you want. In two years, you might be shocked you considered rehoming. In nine years, with patience and persistence he will be the best dog in the neighborhood. The good news is that the improvement is exponential. The majority of the improvement happens up front and as your dog comes nearer to perfection, the improvement reduces, think natural logarithm, e^-t/tou. 

It isn't rocket science but your dog needs Leadership, Management, Training, Exercise, and Socialization. Put "proper" in front of those, not "tons of." If you cannot do this, than please contact your breeder and give the puppy back, and please do not get another GSD.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

I agree with other posters here.. Power through this if you can. If not, call the breeder. But honestly this is not insurmountable. GSD’s will test boundaries and leadership. My 10 month old GSD girl was nicknamed “monster” and “demon” by my family until recently! She’d bite everything and try to play with every dog she saw. She’d ignore any command and show zero remorse about it! Fast forward a few months with rigorous training, and she’s already a dream dog at 10 months old. It’s so worth it


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dudley'sMom said:


> My best advice would be to give him some time. We went through the same issues with our boy at the same age, and I was ready to give up too. I am so thankful we did not though! He has come so far, and he is not even 2 years old yet. I have learned that I need to calm my nerves, as he picks up on that. I used to be so nervous about bringing him out and about for fear of what people would think. He picked up on my nervous energy, and he got worse. I thought this sounded silly the first time someone suggested this could happen. Although, after making a conscious effort to be relaxed and trust my dog, he did in fact get better. The other day, we were approached by a man that I felt uncomfortable being around, I got nervous, and he picked up on it. He growled and grumbled at the man, I created some distance between us and him, and the man left. It's crazy what our dogs pick up on. On the contrary, when we are walking and are approached by strangers, I have noticed that when I am calm, so is he. He now even lets new people pet him! I did not think that would be possible a year ago! It truly does make a difference.
> 
> Now, no, I am not saying this changed everything for him. We also have been working hard to decrease his threshold. We started by going to parks and sitting far away from any commotion, and gradually have decreased our distance. If you dog shows that he is uncomfortable, move back to where he is comfortable. Work at his speed, not yours. I found this to be hard, as I wanted him to advance more quickly than he was ready for. We thought we had a dog with weak nerves, and now we are blaming ourselves for not socializing him enough as a puppy, thinking we could have prevented some issues by exposing him to more situations at a younger age. Like you, we paid near $750 for training, and we realized that the best thing we can do is to provide experiences that allow him to see situations he views as stressful from a distance. Once he realizes that he is safe, he is comfortable moving closer. I am so happy we didn't give up on him, as he is getting more confident by the day. I used to be so scared to let kids get near him, and now he loves the neighborhood kids (and they love him). Give your boy a chance to mature and figure out that life isn't as scary as he thinks. It will take some time and effort on your part, and there will be setbacks, but I am so happy we let him take his time to figure things out. We could not be happier with how much he has progressed, and we look forward to more progress that we know he can make. Stick with your dog if you can put the time in to help him. I am so thankful I did not give up when I was where you are at now. Best of luck to you guys! It does get better if you are willing to work with him.


Shy dogs, like shy people don't like to be the center of attention. They can learn that barking and lunging will get them what they want, more distance. If we wait for them to do this, then we end up with a problem dog. 

But, if we believe the dog is reacting to some our own feelings being transmitted down the leash, or on our breath, then we can make a conscious effort to be calm, use distance when we are a little nervous, and we can ask folks that we meet to ignore our dog. Please ignore him, if he comes to you, then you will be able to pet him. 

See, a lot of dogs do not accept people as quickly as we do, but if we stand there and talk to the person, ignoring the dog, a lot of times the dog will relax and even approach the person, and receive pets. People who rush up on a dog, put all their focus on the dog, stare at the dog -- much less likely to have the best response out of the dog. This is why two sisters, one who loves dogs, and the other who can care less, the first finds that many dogs avoid her; and the second sister finds that dogs trust her. It sucks. Because we aren't here because we hate dogs. We're here because they fascinate us.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

germanshepowner said:


> I agree with other posters here.. Power through this if you can. If not, call the breeder. But honestly this is not insurmountable. GSD’s will test boundaries and leadership. My 10 month old GSD girl was nicknamed “monster” and “demon” by my family until recently! She’d bite everything and try to play with every dog she saw. She’d ignore any command and show zero remorse about it! Fast forward a few months with rigorous training, and she’s already a dream dog at 10 months old. It’s so worth it


LOL, Kaiah is known as "The Baby Monster" but she is a sweetheart now. I think she is about 10 months old. She was a bitey little thing.


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## germanshepowner (Oct 26, 2018)

selzer said:


> germanshepowner said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with other posters here.. Power through this if you can. If not, call the breeder. But honestly this is not insurmountable. GSD’s will test boundaries and leadership. My 10 month old GSD girl was nicknamed “monster” and “demon” by my family until recently! She’d bite everything and try to play with every dog she saw. She’d ignore any command and show zero remorse about it! Fast forward a few months with rigorous training, and she’s already a dream dog at 10 months old. It’s so worth it
> ...


Phew do I feel you!!! There were days when I was so exhausted and my arms were so bloody that I contemplated what stupid thought ever led me to getting a dog again. I still have the scars! I actually read this forum a lot in those days to stay hopeful!


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## Gaia (Jul 9, 2019)

I think there is a wealth of great advice here already.

If you choose to continue to manage and train the dog, I think there are more than enough great suggestions given already.

I will say this, though:

If you decided to rehome the dog and start over with a new dog, I would suggest getting something like a golden retriever or a more docile breed like that.
They can be much more of a "go-anywhere" dog.

I feel that a lot of people see videos and whatnot of people with their amazingly trained GSDs who follow them at their heels and obey every command and never even look at another person and think "Oh, I want that!" without regarding how much devotion goes into training that behavior.

It sounds like you've worked with trainers, so I'm sure you're already aware of that fact, and you know now that genes have a lot to do with the trainability of a dog.

But I still believe that if you live in a crowded place, and you're wanting to take a dog everywhere with you without the fear of aggression, I would select a more notoriously docile breed.
That isn't to say that retrievers are 100% free from negative behaviors, but having a dog with a smaller frame (and a smaller mouth) is much easier for a first-time owner to handle.


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## tinam (Dec 11, 2018)

selzer said:


> I didn't read all the responses, so sorry if this is repeated, but the pup is 10 months old. This is a time when many folks rehome or dump their dogs in shelters. The problem may be weak nerves. It could be inexperienced owners believing they took an over-priced set of classes and now their dog ought to be perfect. It could be owners who over-stimulated/socialized a puppy and now have a dog that doesn't believe you will protect it.
> 
> This is a puppy. You are expecting totally predictable in a puppy. Well, that's like sending your kid down for the children's moment and not expecting the kid to say anything embarrassing.
> 
> ...



I really liked your advice and would like to keep my dog. I do agree that based on being a shy puppy, maybe I shouldn’t have allowed a lot of people to pet him without considering his feelings. He’s good when I’m talking to someone (just doesn’t care to be involved) or when I’m walking on the street. I’ve keep a mental note on my nervousness and try to always remain relax as well which has helped. 

We will be moving to a different part of the city and in a new neighbourhood, how do we go about socialization with people without forcing the dog to feel he has to partake? Considering he can be nervous at times I don’t want to make him uncomfortable and have bad experiences with human interactions.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Shadow is a shy dog. People reaching and pushing at her are almost guaranteed an aggressive response. If I stop to talk, she will often sit behind me, sometimes even with her back to people. You can see her nose and ears going, she processes and absorbs until she is ready. Sometimes she never is. Some people she wants to avoid. I respect that and advocate for her.
I give her that space. I tell people she is shy and needs time. Those who respect that sometimes even get soft, shy kisses or the much sought after paw, but it has to be on her terms and in her time. I muzzle her on walks for her safety and my peace of mind, because people can be rude and pushy.
I also often put her leash around my waist, to avoid telegraphing my tension down it.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

My dog does not like to be handled or petted by strangers. So what we do is, if I pause and say "Hi" I also say, "My dog isn't good with strangers" or "My dog doesn't like to be petted by strangers" or "My dog is a rescue and he isn't sure about strangers" or something along those lines. Then we continue with our conversation (the person keeps their hands away) and typically Rumo will stand calmly by my leg or (in case of extreme chattiness) he lies down in the grass or on the sidewalk. When I'm done, I say "Let's go" and we go on our way. 

If I am passing something risky (for example, a family with 3 squealing excited little children) ) I try to cross the street and avoid eye contact. The parents usually get the message, and they are not going to let their kids go galloping across a street just to pet a dog. In fact, if they see somebody crossing the street, they generally assume it's not a friendly dog.

It's been a couple years of this, and my dog has become a lot more mellow and relaxed about passing people. His breathing doesn't even speed up anymore, and we can pass other people on the same sidewalk, just a few feet apart. 

Actually I don't ever expect him to be very friendly/sociable with strangers - he is good with our family, and trusted friends, and that's good enough for us!


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