# To new puppy buyers-- #1 warning sign of a BYB



## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

When their website says something like this:

" If you're interested in a puppy and have questions, please ask. However, I find the people most interested in pedigree info., certifications, etc. are breeders. And I DO NOT PLACE PUPS WITH BREEDERS. So for the simplicity, no new info. in those areas will be added to the site. If you're a PUPPY BUYER and want a lovely pet and companion, feel free to call, I'm happy to provide copies of that same info. when you get your baby. "

If a breeder won't give you information on OFA or pedigree UNTIL you get the puppy, DONT get a puppy from them!! I know someone who thought this was a 'good sign' that they didn't sell to breeders...now they have a dog that can hardly put weight on the left side because it is so dysplastic.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Or if their "puppy page" says the following:

"NEVA is bred! This is a very very wonderful and unexpected surprise!!! She will be due mid July and this is a highly anticipated litter! Please call for details"

Why would a litter be an unexpected surprise? If they allow all the dogs to free roam together, you have no idea which dog is the dad


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

wow are those from real websites? Scary.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

That is just too scary! And they seem to be so proud of themselves!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Craigslist is full of those "oops" which always seem to occur between two purebred dogs. 
Nobody seemed to realize their female which is now sexually mature could get pregnant.
I thought "the birds and bees" was still part of Junior high...or Middle school??


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

How in God's name is it highly anticipated and unexpected at the same time?

Also, I love the phrase "unexpected surprise." Like, this one time I got an expected surprise.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I guess when all the males and females live on '11 acres uninterrupted by evil kennels" it is always a surprise when they get pregnant and then highly anticipated because they are going to make money lol


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Any dealer that won't allow you to see a pedigree or ofa certs before you buy is worse than a normal back yard breeder. They are just plain crooks and don't want you to know what they are selling you. It's kind of like buying a used car from a dealer who refuses to disclose the car fax history report until after you buy their salvaged titled car.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ya know...it's not hard to find this breeder from your quotes. 

1) They have their animals OFA'd per their website
2) They encourage buyers to train and offer money back for each title
3) Looks like they work their own dogs
4) Quote from website


> I am located on 11 acres of land where are pups are all raised with "US". This means they are NOT KENNEL dogs! You will not see them chained or caged and they are all part of our family.



So where did your assumption of "evil kennels" come from?




> My dogs are ALL health tested and HIP certified with either OFA or PennHip, if they are not 2 yrs. of age, an xray is still done between myself and my vet to be sure there isn't any issue..




And there puppy contract has EVERYTHING that is preached on this board.

The main thing I can find wrong is their dogs are much larger than standard.


Not sure...but this thread might be one of those breeder bashing ones.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

robk said:


> Any dealer that won't allow you to see a pedigree or ofa certs before you buy is worse than a normal back yard breeder. They are just plain crooks and don't want you to know what they are selling you. It's kind of like buying a used car from a dealer who refuses to disclose the car fax history report until after you buy their salvaged titled car.


I meant breeder not dealer.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Well maybe they've had some bad experience with people bashing them? So are leary to hand out info to just 'anyone'..Maybe just maybe, if someone was interested in buying one of their puppies, they'd be happy to give them information upon meeting them, getting to know them vs handing it out to anyone who calls/contacts them??

I agree with Jax on this one. 

I must say I've seen and heard much worse from 'breeders' than the one being quoted.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

My "assumption" came from a buyer of one of their puppies that has a dog that was riddled with worms for 2 months and now has such severe hip dysplasia that it can hardly walk....also the father was "OFA" certified on the web page but has never been OFAd...the breeder just put that on their website. The only dogs that have titles are dogs that were bought and already came with titles...

Not everything you read on websites is true....anyone can claim to OFA or title their dogs. But when the buyer of the dog received the dog and asked for the info, as asked on the website, the breeder said they didnt have it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

so why post it? Since it's easy to find out 'who' the breeder is, it looks like your throwing it out there to "breeder bash".

Your right, you can't believe everything you read and I feel bad for the person who bought this dog who has severe problems

However, some days it gets 'old' that people do not do their research first and foremost, health & temperament being the most important thing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My thoughts exactly, Diane.


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

Just something noted...they feed Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural and this food is way too high in calcium for large breed puppies. They also send it home with new pups, so if you're friend continued to feed it, it may have contributed to the hip issue. I recently emailed the company regarding this particular formula for pups and this is the response I got.


From: Cindy Montgomery <[email protected]>
Date: June 19, 2012 3:37:31 PM CDT

Subject: Re: Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural

Thank you for your interest in Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. Like other high protein, no-grain diets, Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural contains a high meat content which also reflects a high calcium/phosphorus level. This is characteristic for this type of food. The calcium level for Primitive Natural is 2.45% and the phosphorus is 1.5%. We recommend consulting your veterinarian to make sure that this calcium/phosphorus level is good for your breed and age of dog. Typically large breed puppies should have a lower calcium/phosphorus level so *we do not recommend this food for large breed puppies*.

Cindy Montgomery
VP, Marketing
Midwestern Pet Foods, Inc.
9634 Hedden Road
Evansville, IN 47725
p 812-867-4504, ext. 107
f 812-867-0424
[email protected]


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't think dog food is the reason for HD-


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## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

There have been quite a few studies on it, and the site boasts of 9wk old puppies weighing 24lbs.

*The rapid growth which causes skeletal disorders (like hip dysplasia) in larger breeds is now believed to be more appropriately linked to genetics, excessive dietary calcium, or overfeeding during the puppy phase of life.*

-_Richardson, Skeletal diseases of the growing dog: Nutritional influences and the role of diet, Canine Hip Dysplasia: A Symposium Held at Western Veterinary Conference, 1995_

My 3 weighed in at 13.2, 15.6, and the largest at 17.2 lbs at 8 and 9 wks of age. The largest developed severe HD. I also fed him TOTW, which at the time, I believed was an all stages food, but very high in calcium. So I don't really know what caused his HD - the genetics, the food, his excessive weight, or a combination of all three, but he was a BIG pup from the day I received him.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I think dogs are pre-disposed to dysplasia, or not. 
Food may play into it, but maybe not, or the dog would have had dysplasia either way.


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