# Vaccines, HW



## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I have an appt Saturday for rabies. Trying to decide what to do about HW and distemper and parvo. 

I know that even if I decide to give them they should be given separate, just trying to decide what to do. 

I was going to test for HW and then give meds for the summer and then do that next summer, test in March or May and start the meds until September. 

Any comments?

What about distemper and parvo boosters? I was going to titer. Courtney said I should give a booster for distemper and then titer next year. 

Comments on this?

Also, what about parvo?


Anything else?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Per Dr. Dodds booster the first year, then titer. Distemper and parvo.
I usually give separate from rabies...I really don't have an issue with DHPP if the vet does not have the individual vaccines.

HW no advice there. I live in a year-round area; I give ivomec because it is the only way I can avoid the flea and tick and worm medicines......I use garlic for the fleas and ticks and always come up negative on the worm screens.

I do an annual blood panel, tick panel, and HW test.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

So distemper and parvo can be given together? She says to space it a month from rabies and I will. But distemper and parvo together is fine?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I would have preferred parvo and distemper separate but cannot get it. He gets the DHPP (distemper, hepatitis, parvovirus and parainfluenza). I did space this out from the rabies.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Also wanted to put a disclaimer out there - this is only what *I* choose to do for my dog. Always consult with your vet


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

As Nancy says - Dr Dodds protocal....boost the puppy shots a year later...then titer and 3 years for Rabies... (as in the other thread with the subject line nothing to do with the tangential discussion!)

Lee


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It can be very hard to get the separate distemper and parvo; your best bed is a holistic vet. 

It does not come in individual vials but in a "community" vial good for multiple injections. Personally I would rather give the DHPP knowing that it has only been punctured one time by a needle...that is not a problematic vaccine AFAIK.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I think there is too much paranoia about all this. I've had dogs for over fifty yrs. and up until about ten years ago vaccinated them faithfully every year when the mobile clinics came by. Now I do the three yr. vaccines.

I'm old enough to remember puppies dying of distemper and parvo in large numbers when I was a boy. We lost 2 puppies to distemper in less than a yr.
Out of all those dogs and all those shots I never had a significant reaction even doing all of them yearly and rabies at the same time as other shots.

There will always be people and animals that will have horrible or even deadly reactions to medicines, vaccines, herbs, plants etc... but the number of animals that used to die from the diseases that they are now protected from was far greater than the occasional awful stories that we hear.

I prefer minimal vaccines but I refuse to be paranoid about every possible thing that can happen to our dogs.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> It can be very hard to get the separate distemper and parvo; your best bed is a holistic vet.
> 
> It does not come in individual vials but in a "community" vial good for multiple injections. Personally I would rather give the DHPP knowing that it has only been punctured one time by a needle...that is not a problematic vaccine AFAIK.



It is supposedly holistic. Will ask


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Did your dog have a reaction the first time you gave the vaccines?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Before I knew anything I happily gave him every vaccine my vet suggested. Did a bunch in one day. He lived. Got bad allergies but lived. 

I'm just trying to make educated decisions instead of pumping everything available. 

I try do minimal of everything. I only give what's necessary. I'm now convinced rabies is necessary. 

I'm still thinking about HW. I will do distemper and parvo. 

There's nothing wrong with putting some thought into this. If I wasn't so clueless I would've been careful about vaccinating my daughter too. Would probably give all the vaccines anyway but not brainlessly giving them just because.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Did your dog have a reaction the first time you gave the vaccines?



Just allergies that lasted a year. No big deal

If I kept following the 'protocols' he would've been on lifetime shots now. Probably more problems would've developed. 

I will continue thinking before giving something.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

So you don't actually know why the allergies developed, you're just blaming them on the vaccines...

I'm not sure what there is to question about HW? What exactly are you questioning?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

martemchik said:


> So you don't actually know why the allergies developed, you're just blaming them on the vaccines...
> 
> I'm not sure what there is to question about HW? What exactly are you questioning?



Nope I don't know for sure. They started a few weeks after the vaxs so a coincidence. Not the rabies one, the other 7 or 9

You're not sure what's there to question about HW? Then you can't answer my question.

The debate is well known. Whether the meds should be given year round as opposed to the warm months only. Also, some are suggesting no meds at all and just testing.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think anyone suggests just testing...that seems kind of stupid because if you do figure out your dog is HW positive, its not the cheapest of fixes. Not a death sentence, but still quite a bit of money. Where as a pill is less than $10 a month. And I know you said you have insurance, but I'd read into what happens if they figure out you're not doing any preventative. That's almost standard care these days and I can't imagine an insurance company covering the costs of treatment when you could've easily prevented it.

It really depends on your mosquito situation. If you have a lot, and they tend to last deep into the fall, then start early in the spring, I'd probably do year round. By me, we don't have many mosquitos because we're really close to Lake Michigan and there isn't a lot of standing water. So I only do it after the weather gets warm.

Most vets will require a yearly test, and generally a test before they prescribe the preventative. If you're going to a holistic vet, talk with them. They'll let you know what's best in your region. My vet recommends just during the warm months.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

It is suggested on one website, it was linked here a few times. Truth and facts about HW, something like that. 

So far every vet I went to suggests year round. I will ask this one. To me, with our cold winters, it makes no sense to give it year round so them pushing it tells me about their priorities. 

I know pills are the cheapest, I'm not trying to save money. I'm trying to make sure he doesn't get unnecessary chemicals.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I want to find a balance between not giving unnecessary stuff and not leaving him unprotected. 

This goes for HW, vax and any meds suggested


I'm so careful about all this because every doc I went to pushed meds. They medicate just in case, even if they don't know what's wrong. Since they sell the meds at 2-3 times the price I'm thinking this is their way of making money. So now I'm doubting everything they say.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't see any links and I've never seen anything that said to not give preventative at least through mosquito season...

I've read the facts and its true...there is a very small window that your dog can actually get the parasite. But it's basically all weather and temperature dependent which is extremely difficult to follow IMO. Also, nature sometimes doesn't follow the rules set forward by the internet and so I wouldn't trust those sites as much as I would what a vet says.

Most vets do push HW year round...mostly because they want to make sure people don't get out of the habit of giving their dogs the pill. The biggest worry is that first month where things warm up...and since you haven't given it in 5 months, you forget to give a pill and something happens. Or an unusually warm spring that starts early and you forget because you plan on starting in May or June. They also do make quite a bit on selling the pills, so its understandable they push them...but mostly its to make sure people get in a habit and don't forget.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I didn't link it, I saw it was linked a few times in other posts

It's this one

http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/heartworminfo.htm

ETA

It's a long article. Here's the part where he/she says it

'What do I do? Well, for me, the choice was easy. I live in So. California. I rarely see mosquitoes. My dogs spend most of their time indoors. Nights are invariably cool.

With the advice of two local vets, I decided to protect my own dogs (both of whom have health challenges) against the toxicity of heartworm “preventatives” rather than protect against an unlikely infection. I use non-toxic alternatives like mosquito control, an excellent diet and no drugs unless they’re absolutely unavoidable. I increase safety by testing blood twice yearly. I haven’t used “preventatives” for five or six years and my dogs remain heartworm free. This is my personal decision. I am not a vet. 

If I lived in a mosquito-heavy area, however, I might do much the same. I would determine local risks and would consult a local holistic vet to get help preventing heartworms naturally. I would control mosquitoes and test blood twice or more yearly. Someone who had “outside dogs,” and who was the nervous about heartworms, might also use heartworm meds or the Safeheart method during the peak heartworm months of July and August, but only if their dogs had healthy kidneys and livers. They should make any decision with a knowledgeable vet.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

As far as a habit. I can understand a habit of doing something every day. Anything monthly usually needs a reminder. 

And these days, with phones and computers and reminders, things are much easier. I have reminders to do the dishes lol


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I didn't do year round heartworm this year . I'm going with every 45 days from May-Nov. Rabies and Distemper every 3 years and no more distemper after boosters, the one year and two 3 year shots.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I didn't do year round heartworm this year . I'm going with every 45 days from May-Nov. Rabies and Distemper every 3 years and no more distemper after boosters, the one year and two 3 year shots.



Yep, I'm doing the same with shots. Just have to decide on HW. Every 30 days in the summer vs every 45. 
Also, full dose or a smaller dose as mentioned in the article


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

your in NY right? well us new englanders are mosquito central, so HW med IS necessary.. I do it from April 15 - Nov 1. (unless we're getting a really buggy warm nov I'll go to Dec 1). I also give the HW meds, every 45 days vs 1 per month. 

Masi (gsd) is on Heartguard Plus, Kizzy (aussie) is on Sentinel right now. 

Rabies, definitely a must, Kizzy just had hers at 14 weeks, will get a 3 year at one year of age..Here, I could have gotten a waiver for my older/ill dog(s) however, if they bit anyone, they were subject to being treated as if they had NO rabies vaccine. Titers for Rabies is not acceptable. Jynx was due at age 13 for a rabies, I was really on the fence, we did 1/2 dose...I also use single dose thimerisol free rabies vacs.

Parvo/distemper is a dual shot..My vet NEVER multiplies shots, for instance, Kizzy got a distemper/parvo 3 weeks ago,,this week she got a rabies..

If Iwere you I'd do the rabies NOW, that's the most important..wait 3-4 wks go back for parvo/distemper. I do not give anything else..

She (KIzzy) will get another distemper/parvo and the rabies at one year of age, (separate of course), and then I will titer the following year, if it's good levels, she most likely won't get another for atleast 3 years IF i do any at all.

Masi hasn't had a parvo/distemper in 5 years, I just gave her one this year. 

That is just what "I" do.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Yep, ny

Yes, rabies will come first. After reading that thread I'm petrified. And a few weeks later the distemper and parvo

The HW meds. Do you give the full dose or...?


ETA also, why do you give 2 diff meds to your dogs? Why one gets sentinel and another heartguard?


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*I think there is too much paranoia about all this.*
this for sure 
5 way vaccines almost never cause an allergic reaction at the time of the vaccine
lepto is the one that does that plus can make them feel sick

rabies given at the same time as a 5 way is just fine


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

my boy diesel said:


> *I think there is too much paranoia about all this.*
> this for sure
> 5 way vaccines almost never cause an allergic reaction at the time of the vaccine
> lepto is the one that does that plus can make them feel sick
> ...


I do not seperate the rabies and distemper once they are older. As puppies I do get the last distemper booster about three weeks before the rabies. I do think that it's a good idea to do it seperately for small dogs.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> *I think there is too much paranoia about all this.*
> this for sure
> 5 way vaccines almost never cause an allergic reaction at the time of the vaccine
> lepto is the one that does that plus can make them feel sick
> ...



I gave lepto too. On the same day with more stuff. 

I didn't get a reaction same day, if was a few weeks afterwards. He got bad allergies, horrible hotspots all over. Took a year to get rid of them and still a few are there now.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

lalachka said:


> I gave lepto too. On the same day with more stuff.
> 
> I didn't get a reaction same day, if was a few weeks afterwards. He got bad allergies, horrible hotspots all over. Took a year to get rid of them and still a few are there now.


May I ask why you give the lepto?


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

so dont do the lepto :shrug:


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

llombardo said:


> May I ask why you give the lepto?



I don't. I was an idiot and gave everything they suggested. 

Now he will get rabies, then in a month distemper and parvo. That's it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I do give the full dose appropriate for the dog. However, with Kizzy(puppy) since she's in a weird weight range, (she is 10lbs) the dosage is either 0-10 or 10-25..I'll stick with the 0-10 right now....

I give Sentinel to the aussie, because she hasn't been tested for the MDR1 gene yet. (they shouldn't have ivermectin which is in Heartguard).

They say if a dog is going to have an adverse reaction it's usually to the lepto..I did give masi a lepto when she was 1.5 but none since. 

Distemper/parvo are I think, the most important vac's and the dogs must have immunity to it (well besides rabies being important)


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Jack's Dad said:


> I think there is too much paranoia about all this. I've had dogs for over fifty yrs. and up until about ten years ago vaccinated them faithfully every year when the mobile clinics came by. Now I do the three yr. vaccines.
> 
> I'm old enough to remember puppies dying of distemper and parvo in large numbers when I was a boy. We lost 2 puppies to distemper in less than a yr.
> Out of all those dogs and all those shots I never had a significant reaction even doing all of them yearly and rabies at the same time as other shots.
> ...


Even sometimes to their detriment. Totally agree. 

And here is the MDR1 information - Veterinary Clinical Pharmacology Lab at the College of Veterinary Medicine


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I just got my records. I gave Lyme and Da2ppcl. I don't even want to know what's in it. 

Also, I don't have dates of the vax (except rabies), I have their due dates. And bordetella is on it but I remember denying it. 

My poor dog.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

lalachka - what's done is done.

The issue that _some_ pet owners have are vets that push these vaccine cocktails EVERY year when studies shows a dog can have immunity for 5-7 years. I think the 3 year we are starting to see is a good change-step in the right direction.

It cost me more to titer but when he shows immunity I'm not going to give him another vaccine. 

Everyone is different with their approach. No biggie.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Yep, this was pushed. When I denied any shot they'd come up with scenarios of how my dog can get sick. 

Whatever. As you said, too late


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

i think the problem is irrational and hysterical fears over vaccinating when clearly dogs are vaccinated by the millions daily but people read stuff here and think bad things happen all the time with vaccines
it is a bit like a plane crash
millions take off daily but one crashes and now someone becomes afraid to fly
ignoring the statistics that millions of jets have safely taken off and landed

people ignore the fact that the majority of dogs do just fine when vaccinated

lala just ask for a 4way vaccine and leave off the c and l which are corona and lepto

however be aware that if you have lepto and lyme where you live you need to consider doing those vaccines

imo kennel cough vaccine is useless
i would opt for 5 ways unless lepto and lyme are epidemic where you live


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol, I was told I was "giving my dog cancer" a few weeks ago when I mentioned my dog was going in for non-core vaccines. Ok, I get it - her dog had an allergic reaction to the lepto shot (that benadryl took care of) - but still! I had to threaten to block all her emails if she didn't stop forwarding me Mercola crap. The main thing is to know what the risks are in _your own area_, and have a vet that you trust, so you can discuss things and make your own best decision.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

The ones that crashed didn't care about statistics. It's a scary death. Nothing irrational about those fears. 

Over vaccinating - IMO it's not even about reactions to the vaccines, I don't want to give anything not necessary. The immune system is stressed and the dog gets all kinds of things. Bad allergies with raw hot spots is nothing fun to deal with. 

I don't want to find out for sure what it was that gave it to him. If I go back and give him a bunch of vax and the allergies come back - I won't be happy knowing that I was right and the vax caused it. So i'd rather do as little as possible.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> Lol, I was told I was "giving my dog cancer" a few weeks ago when I mentioned my dog was going in for non-core vaccines. Ok, I get it - her dog had an allergic reaction to the lepto shot (that benadryl took care of) - but still! I had to threaten to block all her emails if she didn't stop forwarding me Mercola crap. The main thing is to know what the risks are in _your own area_, and have a vet that you trust, so you can discuss things and make your own best decision.



I dont push my way of thinking on anyone and i don't judge for someone giving the vax. 

After all no one knows for sure. I do what I think is right and you do what you think is right. Extremes from any side is unwarranted. 

Who was stalking you? Lol


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Also, I don't have a vet I trust. That's the problem. I'm going to a supposed holistic vet this time. Will see how that goes. 

I'm not into holistic either, I don't believe in alternative medicine (maybe wrongly). I'm into minimal lol. I want a minimal vet))))))


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

*Nothing irrational about those fears. *

well yes it is irrational when your dog has had a huge hit of all the vaccines and did okay with them and then you let the rabies vax lapse by 4 mos because of your fears 

no hot spots are no fun but it could easily have been something else that caused them


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> *Nothing irrational about those fears. *
> 
> well yes it is irrational when your dog has had a huge hit of all the vaccines and did okay with them and then you let the rabies vax lapse by 4 mos because of your fears
> 
> no hot spots are no fun but it could easily have been something else that caused them



Or it could've been the vaccines. Easily.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> *Nothing irrational about those fears. *
> 
> well yes it is irrational when your dog has had a huge hit of all the vaccines and did okay with them and then you let the rabies vax lapse by 4 mos because of your fears
> 
> no hot spots are no fun but it could easily have been something else that caused them



Besides, you quoted my sentence about the fear of flying not being irrational. 

The next paragraph was about the vaccines


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

?? i didnt read your post about fear of flying
i just used jets as an example of how people ignore the millions of flights that take off and land safely and only look at the crashes


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

my boy diesel said:


> ?? i didnt read your post about fear of flying
> i just used jets as an example of how people ignore the millions of flights that take off and land safely and only look at the crashes



And here was my reply


'The ones that crashed didn't care about statistics. It's a scary death. Nothing irrational about those fears. '

Statistics is nice to give you an idea of how likely something is to happen. But if you're the unlucky one - then the fact that you're the rare case is not much of a consolation.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

You have to try to find out what your dog is allergic to. Have you considered a food intolerance? When my dog had his first bout with seasonal allergies, he had terrible symptoms. The following fall, after switching protein sources (from chicken to lamb) and adding bee pollen to his diet, he only had hot spots. This coming fall we'll see how it goes, since I've switched to fish maybe it'll be even better? But it could be anything in the environment for your dog too - cleaning products, air fresheners, dust, you name it. It's easy to blame the vax.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

my boy diesel - why does this upset you so much? Shall, lalachka go stand in the corner? I don't know how many times she has explained the rabies situation and that she intends to be compliant with her county per law.

I'm not sitting in my house with my blinds drawn because I'm afraid of the world. lol

My family leads a pretty healthy active lifestyle and I want longevity with my dog and am conscientious about his well being. We ask a lot of him. That's all.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> You have to try to find out what your dog is allergic to. Have you considered a food intolerance? When my dog had his first bout with seasonal allergies, he had terrible symptoms. The following fall, after switching protein sources (from chicken to lamb) and adding bee pollen to his diet, he only had hot spots. This coming fall we'll see how it goes, since I've switched to fish maybe it'll be even better? But it could be anything in the environment for your dog too - cleaning products, air fresheners, dust, you name it. It's easy to blame the vax.



It's almost gone. A hot spot here and there but nothing like before. 

Yeah, that's what they told me too and suggested I go on purina pro and do testing and then put him on life time shots. 

I started raw and it took a while but he got much better. 


This all started a few weeks after, maybe sooner. I wasn't keeping track at that point, later I put it all together. 

I use the same cleaners for years, i use the same everything for years. Nothing in the environment changed. 

Again, I don't know for sure. But a convenient coincidence.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

I was able to get a 3 year. I gave them my certificate, thanks to whoever told me I must have it. But I wasn't going to lie either way. I rarely do

So yeah, hopefully he takes it OK


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Also I'm not sure whether it's thimerosal free, forgot to ask. So what if it's not? What are the possible dangers


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Also, when am I in the clear? Like of he doesn't have a reaction by ..... then he's OK 

When is that day?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I doubt it was T free unless you ask for it, not all vets carry them, they are a single dose vac , vs a say, 25 dose vial that is cheaper for the office and has a longer shelf life.

If a reaction, you should see it pretty soon after the vac, altho there have been some that take days, it's not something you can let yourself be paranoid over, if it happens it happens, if he was ok with it last time, he'll probably be ok with it this time


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I doubt it was T free unless you ask for it, not all vets carry them, they are a single dose vac , vs a say, 25 dose vial that is cheaper for the office and has a longer shelf life.
> 
> If a reaction, you should see it pretty soon after the vac, altho there have been some that take days, it's not something you can let yourself be paranoid over, if it happens it happens, if he was ok with it last time, he'll probably be ok with it this time



Got it, thank you. I could've found an office that will have the t free but I was in such a rush to get it done after that thread lol

Next time, in 3 years I will find it. 

And thank you for the assurance)))) I will try to relax.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

mine orders it for me from their vac rep..Some say it has no bearing being T free, and maybe it doesn't, but I still go with it..


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> mine orders it for me from their vac rep..Some say it has no bearing being T free, and maybe it doesn't, but I still go with it..



I'm sure they would have but I couldn't get rabies fast enough lol

My car blew yesterday so I couldn't make my appt because i'd have to drive there. So I called all offices within walking distance and got one to let me walk in. I couldn't wait another week lol. I'm scared of animal control after that thread)))))))

And in NYC it's not 10 days quarantine, it's 6 months (can't believe it, don't understand it but that's what it seems like). This will be one shot I will never miss again


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