# Should I be concerned with this breeder?



## dc9137 (May 12, 2017)

Hi all!

I'm looking for a white german shepherd and think I found one I like. The breeder seems to be good to go but there are a couple of yellow flags based on all of my reading. She's a full time breeder, it's her and her daughters. I talked to her on the phone for about 30 min and she was very nice and seemed to care about the puppies. They are AKC but she doesn't get hip and elbow certs for the puppies but has them for the parents. She offers a 1 year health guarantee and does a 30 day insurance. He's 5 weeks old now and I can go get him at her place in 3 weeks. I'm not concerned with lineage or anything like that, I just want to make sure I get a good healthy dog. Her site is called Marilyn's German Shepard Puppies. Anybody with experience with her or thoughts? Thanks!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Yes. Be concerned. I would look elsewhere.

While many pups are sold without face to face meetings these days a person selling puppies by posting cute photos that you choose from with no communication or info exchanged is not one who I would deal with.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you buy a pup and like all of us , no matter what breed, you take a chance .

you said " They are AKC but she doesn't get hip and elbow certs for the puppies "
Because she CAN'T . 
Impoosible -- not at 8 weeks of age . 

You have a one year guarantee . Find out exactly in writing what that entails.

If you are worried about hips and elbows then find out what that guarantee says should there 
be a problem. What is required of both parties.
Does she refund you ? Replace puppy?

Are you prepared to return puppy . That may be a requirement . If you don't abide by your requirements then you
can't spontaneously make up conditions that you prefer .

You said she has hip and elbow certification on the sire and dam . 

I would x ray the pup PRIOR to the one year - say 10 to 11 months -- and send the plates to OFA for a preliminary evaluation .
That will be your professional opinion.

Then you need to know does the guarantee say that the dog is guaranteed to pass OFA eveluation or does it say
if x rays and symptoms prevent your dog from fulfilling the needs of your dog , the purpose for which you bougth the dog which is a pet companion .

A minor hip problem won't prevent your dog from a long and happy life .

Is this going to make you a chronic worrier -- then that will affect your relationship with the dog and with the breeder.
Not worth it 
Go with someone you totally trust and have confidence in.

Even then , some thing can go wrong.

DO be concerned about the lineage.

I don't like puppy farmers .
Visited web - site --- colour specialty breeder (grrr)

and this just gets me ruffled 

" I have German Shepherd puppies for sale as pets that are wonderful, loving, family protectors. I also have full working line German Shepherd puppies for sale that would do well in a working job, SCH, agility, therapy dog, search and rescue, "

Of course you do! (facetious) . See this all the time all over the place ---- how do you KNOW
how do you know what to look for == pet breeder ,


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## dc9137 (May 12, 2017)

Thanks for the quick reply's. 

I guess where I'm getting stuck is that I haven't been able to find any breeders that have white's that truly fit the definition of a top quality breeder. None check all the boxes, just some. 

If I decide to get one other than white I have the breeder I want that does fit all of the criteria.

Decisions, decisions...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, we on this site are not supposed to critique other breeders or their websites, not over the open forum. 

If anyone has anything negative to say about a personal experience with the breeder, they can PM you. 

Most of the pet owners out there are better off with a pet GSD. This breeder is doing some health screening which is good. And Carmen is right, they can't give you hip and elbow certificates on 8 week old puppies. 

It seems it is perfectly ok for buyers to look for a specific color, but breeders who breed for a specific color are "grrrrrr." Whatever. There are plenty of GSDs out there that you can breed what you like, color being what ought to be last of your concern, but for buyers it tends to be one of the first things on their list. I worry more about people producing black dogs than those producing white dogs. But black is an accepted color -- not a conformation fault. 

If you felt the breeder was knowledgeable and seemed sincere, then there isn't any reason not to go out to her place and look at the litter and meet the dam. If you like what you see, and you don't have a problem with the paperwork, then make your choice, yay or nay. 

Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> Yes. Be concerned. I would look elsewhere.
> 
> While many pups are sold without face to face meetings these days a person selling puppies by posting cute photos that you choose from with no communication or info exchanged is not one who I would deal with.


Where did you get this from. It sounded like he was going to go to their place and pick up the puppy. It sounds like he can back out at that time if the puppy is not suitable, or if the place is horrible. 

I purchased my last puppy after seeing a photo on Facebook and looking at the pedigree. I sent a cashier's check, and the dog was sent to me. I picked him up at the airport. The dog is drop-dead beautiful, he is a little gentleman, he is confident and very social. His conformation is awesome and so far, no health issues. I did talk to the breeder on the phone to confirm information. You can get a very nice dog, and yes, you can allow a breeder to choose for you, the best pup for you -- isn't that what this site normally preaches anyway?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

depends on how high your bar is set....


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Where did you get this from. It sounded like he was going to go to their place and pick up the puppy. It sounds like he can back out at that time if the puppy is not suitable, or if the place is horrible. 


I checked the website. For this pup click here. Select payment option. 
Kind of like ordering cable. Except I don't have to provide personal info.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I visited her website. Too much cutesy stuff and fluff. Too much attention to the sale of pups and focus on color (she seems to have 'all colors' like a Crayon box). It looks to me more like an ad for a puppy mill, no matter if she is AKC approved, whatever that means. I personally would not bother.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

It is difficult finding reputable GSD breeders that produce white dogs because it is out of breed standard, and generally speaking a reputable breeder will produce within the breed standard.

The info you gave was vague, but for hip and elbow testing it's not done on puppies because they are not developed yet and typically defects don't show until a few years old. It's extremely rare for a puppy to have hip dysplasia, even puppies from poor breeding who are likely to develop HD/joint issues will be healthy puppies.

I am not seeing OFA information on her website and little to no information on any titles they may have. From the website I cannot see that this breeder is producing dogs for health or temperament, just appearance, and to be honest many of her adults have poor form. Nice colored coats, that's all. Breed standard seems to be completely disregarded. Not professional at all, I would like to see some quality pictures and formatted information. Prices vary a lot so they must see some of the puppies as more valuable than others, whereas a breeder should not be producing 'lower' quality pups that warrant a low price.

Reminds me more of a reptile breeder than a dog breeder, reptiles are often priced based off of appearance, the difference is reptiles are mostly to look at, dogs aren't.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i bought 2 dogs from her like 5 years ago. julie the red sable was always really home protective. rambo the tan sable was the biggest goofball ever. different personalities. both aced the CGC well under a year. both were healthy as can be.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)




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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Dracovich said 
and typically defects don't show until a few years old. It's extremely rare for a puppy to have hip dysplasia, even puppies from poor breeding who are likely to develop HD/joint issues will be healthy puppies.


neither of these two points are not accurate.

The SV with the "a" stamp system finds plenty GSD with clear to severe hip problems at one year of age -- which would have been pre-existing prior to this . A severe likely would have been found at 6 months of age . One year is the certification age.

If there is suspicion that there may be an orthopedic problem I would x ray early .
On this forum that is the pattern .
Allay your fears , or prepare for the next course of action.


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## dc9137 (May 12, 2017)

Thanks everyone for the feedback!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

carmspack said:


> Dracovich said
> and typically defects don't show until a few years old. It's extremely rare for a puppy to have hip dysplasia, even puppies from poor breeding who are likely to develop HD/joint issues will be healthy puppies.
> 
> 
> ...


I think that the OFA used to certify dogs at 1 year, but because of the number of dogs failing later on that passed at 1 year, they switched the certification to 2 years. How the SV tests, that may not be a problem. Every dog that I know of that passed through the SV, when x-rayed here and sent in to OFA, they also passed OFA -- not 100% sure of NZ ratings passing OFA, but the the ons that were a-normal, or fast normal, seemed to have passed ofa with a fair at least -- just dogs that I know of. Not sure what others experience with that.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

check out some UKC shows. They are some really good breeders of white GSDs that compete in multiple venues there


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