# Can someone tell me what Bloodline my shepherd is?



## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

I have never registered my dog... But i'm curious to know what bloodline is he from:

Sire: Alphatex's Brodie Von Kaiser DN15277107
Dam: Tasha Von Lexus DN02892505

Thanks


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Alphatex's Brodie Von Kaiser - German shepherd dog

Mom isn't in pedigree database. Looks like pet-like type. There isn't a lot of info on dad as far as titled dogs in his pedigree from well-known kennels, so I'm not sure.

ETA: going back 5-6 generations it looks like there are a couple working line dogs and some West German Show Line in there.


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm not sure what is pet-like.. But he sure doesn't act like one.... He's very protective and wary of strangers... Except women then he's pretty calm with and with kids. I was wondering if he was more working line because of his high drive of being protective and fearless.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Welcome to the board!
I think Justine meant "pet lines" as in a mish mash of lines. Protective and wary of strangers can mean fear.

Are you in any training classes with him? How old is he? 

If you can show some pics, that would help. What was the breeders kennel name that he came from?


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

Just uploaded some pics... I'm not sure if it's fear but he only barks or growl to men... First he'll start with a growl and if they get closer then he starts barking. I've trained him the basic commands, such as sit stay, etc... 

Also he doesn't bark with anyone at the dog park. He plays nice and just about anyone can pet him. It's outside of the park that's when he goes to security mode.

The pics he's 11 months old. but he'll be 2 years old in July 8.


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## lemans (Jun 18, 2005)

What's "security mode"?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you have quite a mixture predominantly German showlines, one or two West German working lines , sharper west German Pleuni Busecker Schloss and for good measure a line which is Czech working. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

It's not security mode, it's fear aggression and he's going onto alert because he's nervous and fearful, not because he's protective and fearless. Bit like people who get hurt emotionally and lash out in anger....he's making himself look big and bad because he is fearful. It's a sign of weak nerves and can be a sign of poor or improper socialization and training (though sometimes despite ones best efforts, those weak nerves take over even if training and socialization is done).

A dog that has good nerves, good training, good socialization - is only protective when the need calls for it. People almost always mistake fear as protection, when it is entirely the opposite.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

rashadlc said:


> I'm not sure what is pet-like.. But he sure doesn't act like one.... *He's very protective* and wary of strangers... Except women then he's pretty calm with and with kids. I was wondering if he was more working line because of his high drive of *being protective and fearless*.


You actually may have the opposite of what you think you have. A lot of what you described sounds like fear motivated reactions.

Here's a recent thread on this issue that you may want to read through.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/156050-protective-fearful.html


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Rerun said:


> It's not security mode, it's fear aggression and he's going onto alert because he's nervous and fearful, not because he's protective and fearless. Bit like people who get hurt emotionally and lash out in anger....he's making himself look big and bad because he is fearful. It's a sign of weak nerves and can be a sign of poor or improper socialization and training (though sometimes despite ones best efforts, those weak nerves take over even if training and socialization is done).
> 
> A dog that has good nerves, good training, good socialization - is only protective when the need calls for it. People almost always mistake fear as protection, when it is entirely the opposite.


Ditto this. A dog that is actually fearless with strong nerves will look to its handler for when its appropriate to be protective or not. A dog that is acting out in the manner you describe is fearful and insecure.


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

Okay so.. he might be reacting out of fear. But the barking did stop someone from breaking in. Okay so back to the bloodline. Since he's a mixture of show and working, Does that mean he's still a better quality then an American GSD?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Who says that American show lines are bad quality dogs? All it means is he's a mix of working and show lines.

What are you trying to do with the dog? Any sports or anything or is he just a pet?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

rashadlc said:


> Since he's a mixture of show and working, Does that mean he's still a better quality then an American GSD?


 Nope


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Rerun said:


> It's not security mode, it's fear aggression and he's going onto alert because he's nervous and fearful, not because he's protective and fearless. Bit like people who get hurt emotionally and lash out in anger....he's making himself look big and bad because he is fearful. It's a sign of weak nerves and can be a sign of poor or improper socialization and training (though sometimes despite ones best efforts, those weak nerves take over even if training and socialization is done).
> 
> A dog that has good nerves, good training, good socialization - is only protective when the need calls for it. People almost always mistake fear as protection, when it is entirely the opposite.


Very well said :thumbup: This is why this site is so good I always learn new things from knowledgeable people like you!


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Someone added a female puppy from your dogs breeding to the database.

5 gen. pedigree for Newfemalepuppy - German shepherd dog

When (reputable) breeders plan their litters, they look for what each dog (sire, dam) bring to the table. What needs to be brought in (desirable traits), and what needs to be bred away from (undesirable traits). We look at bloodlines that have the desirable traits that are being passed on to their progeny, that we want for the generations to come.

Your dog has such a mish mash of bloodlines (West German Show lines, West German Working lines, East German Working lines (DDR)), and some others I am not familiar with. It is difficult to discern what is coming through all those bloodlines. Closer to your dog (1st, 2nd, 3rd, generations) there was no planning on what traits to breed for. I say this by looking at the pedigrees and not seeing titles (temperament tests if you will) on any dogs. What were these breeders breeding for?? What goal were they hoping to accomplish?

A couple phrases come to mind: Buyer Beware & You get what you pay for

Buyer Beware: Just because they say the puppies are from imported/titled parents, doesnt mean they are. A HIGH price doesnt automatically mean HIGH quality. Great temperament, doesnt mean it is so. 

You get what you pay for: That bargain $200 GSD puppy in the paper, seems like a great deal at the time. Later on, and $5,000 after hip replacement surgery or the law suit from biting someone, itsnt such a bargain any more.

Why are you wondering about the bloodlines?? If it is just a pet, what does it matter? I can understand curiosity, and wondering. You have heard about different lines of GSD's and wonder what your dog has. Or, are you wondering what you should breed him to? This is how the GSD is getting messed up. 

We on this board are passionate about the GSD, otherwise we wouldnt be here. We are trying to guide people to preserve and protect OUR breed. We have seen more than we care to in shelters/rescues.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Your dog is also a teenager. I would keep his experiences upbeat and friendly and expost him to as many good people as possible. You have not to worry about a dog protecting his home if he is confident and comfortable around non threatening strangers.

Right now he needs to take his cues from YOU that the world is good. When you own anything other than a potential puppy, he is what he is not what his genetics say he may be - you own it so digressing about the lines may cause you more angst than necessary. Here you would say - probably NOT a breeding prospect even if things work out wondefully because there is no way of predicting the outcome with any level of confidence but could turn out to be a good dog.

Personally, I am not fond of the dog parks - but that is a whole other discussion.


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

I am learning so much from this site. Thanks everyone! 

To answer a few questions, I was just curious about what is his background. I have never read a Pedigree before and in the past I would look for rescue/shelter dogs... 

I was also curious because he's sometimes aggressive towards other male dogs, even when I took him to the dog park 5 days a week since he was 4 months old to socialize him. He didn't start this aggression until around 1 years old. Only with new dogs that come into the dog park. Other male dogs he's fine with.

And no. I do not want to breed him.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

So, he's aggressive with new male dogs that come into the park while your dogs there?


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

Yes, he's aggressive towards new male dogs that he never met. Smaller dogs he's okay with but bigger ones then he's not. I'm not sure why because I socialize him with people and other animals.. Maybe it's because of all the mix temperments.. 

I don't take him anymore.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The lines won't tell you anything about where the aggression is coming from. SL is just as prone to having aggression problems as WL. It's all about knowing the sire and dam and seeing if they have those problems. As stated earlier, there are no titles in the pedigree to show that they have no aggression issues and are of a sound temperment so that might be part of the aggression issue. The other part might be the socialization.

I'm by no means an expert in pedigrees but just the small snippets you offer leads me to think its more nurture than nature. No bloodline is predisposed to disliking males lol so I don't see that being an issue. It's probably time to start a different training regimen, and not let him bark/growl at friendly males, both human and canine. I'm not putting you down at all but it did sound like you were proud of the fact that your dog growled/barked at the man that came towards your son, and if that is what you want in your dog, then leave it be, I know I wouldn't and would work hard to correct it.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

It's time to stop your dog park trips. Your pup is maturing and asserting his pack that, in case of the dog park, is the known dogs that are there at the time. He will be posturing towards other males especially if they posture back, and I doubt that any amount of training will make him love the male dogs. Ignore, yes, but be kissy-lovey? Nope. 

Agression is an integral part of the breed, and it's a good thing that your dog possesses this trait. You just need to channel and manage it.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

He mentioned in an earlier post that he's no longer bringing the dog to the park.


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

I admit... I probably need more training. The basic training was easy such as sit, stay, come, heel, etc... 

He hasn't been to the dog park for about 6 months. I don't plan to take him back until he get's the aggression down. He is also intact. It's probably too late to snip him since he's almost two, I'm not sure if it will do any good. 

But for some reason he picks and choose who he barks/growls at. If i'm on the hiking trail people can walk by with no problem. I'm wondering if it's a territorial thing. Like in the car if someone get's near or at home... I take him to the pet store, he's fine, and I take him to the vet or mans best friend for a bath and he's fine.. Or maybe it's with unfamiliar places.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

rashadlc said:


> But for some reason he picks and choose who he barks/growls at. If i'm on the hiking trail people can walk by with no problem. I'm wondering if it's a territorial thing. Like in the car if someone get's near or at home... I take him to the pet store, he's fine, and I take him to the vet or mans best friend for a bath and he's fine.. Or maybe it's with unfamiliar places.


Sounds like he's resource guarding. The car and his home are his, so that's where he's reacting. He probably feels more confident in these places and wants them all for himself. He's guarding his valuables.

These random places (vet, hikes, grooming) aren't his territory, so he's got nothing to defend.


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## rashadlc (Apr 8, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Sounds like he's resource guarding. The car and his home are his, so that's where he's reacting. He probably feels more confident in these places and wants them all for himself. He's guarding his valuables.
> 
> These random places (vet, hikes, grooming) aren't his territory, so he's got nothing to defend.


And I guess he thinks the Dog Park is his as well. :crazy:


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

rashadlc said:


> And I guess he thinks the Dog Park is his as well. :crazy:


When he's at the dog park, he's reacting to dogs. When he's in the car or at home, he's reacting to people, right?

There's a big difference between dog aggression and human aggression. Two totally different things.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

rashadlc said:


> He is also intact. It's probably too late to snip him since he's almost two, I'm not sure if it will do any good.


Actually most of us here believe its best to wait until the dog is 2 to alter due to hormones and growing. Large breeds aren't fully mature until 3, and there can be negative affects of alteration done under 2 years of age.


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