# ...so... I made my decision/joined the SV



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I made my decision about Nala. 

Yesterday I joined the SV. I'm going to continue to train with Debbie Zappia in Obedience and put the BH on her. Besides that I'll start her in tracking. That I don't need a club for to do that yet. As for protection... lets get the BH first and then go from there. Maybe not a bad thing to get the BH first and then worry about the protection phase...maybe I can teach her to Revier already? Even though it'd be an "obedience exercise". But it's something I don't necessarily need a Club for yet. 

Also, hopefully I can show her before June to get an SG on her before she turns 2 years of age.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

All I need is the SV Membership, right? I don't need a club membership for the BH if I am not a member of a Club by the time we are ready?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What you need depends on the organization you'd be trialing or showing under...


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Liesje said:


> What you need depends on the organization you'd be trialing or showing under...


Since I want to get her titled in SchH I'd do it via the WUSV meaning USCA since she's registered with the SV. 

My question is if I already need a Club Membership to put the BH on her or if he Membership in the SV itself is enough to start in the US or do I need to be a member of the USCA itself? Or, if I can't be a Member of a Club by the time we are ready would it be enough to be a member with a German Club "on paper" ? That could be arranged. 

As far as I remember, all it takes to do the BH is the membership of the SV itself but not necessarily a Club membership?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I think I need to join the USCA on top of that from what I read on the website.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you have an SV scorebook it needs to be certified by USCA. This costs $40 for a non-member (scorebooks are $10 for USCA members).

"USA CERTIFICATION OF FOREIGN or NON USA SCOREBOOKS
Scorebooks issued by other clubs, SV, DVG, ADRK, etc. (with the exception of scorebooks issued by the German Shepherd Dog Club of America, WDA) can be USA-certified by sending the original scorebook, a copy of the dog’s registration papers and a copy of your current membership card to the USA Office. The appropriate fee(s) are as follows: if you are a current USA member, the cost would be $10.00. If you are a non-member, the fee would be $40.00."


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

How much does it cost to join the SV? It costs $100 for USCA membership and $10 for a scorebook so that's $110 to enter a USCA trial for the BH (apart from the entry fee). If it's $40 for an SV scorebook to be certified, if the SV membership costs more than $70 then it's not worth it, IMO.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

It's 48 Euros to Join the SV, 15 Euros for shipping the SV Magazine, not sure about the scorebook. Need to look that up.

Oh oh, Nala has different papers. Her results go directly into the papers so I don't know if I even need a scorebook?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you're going to show and trial under USCA it's probably cheaper to join that club and use their scorebook. Otherwise you're basically doubling up, or paying USCA additional fees to "certify" your SV stuff.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Now I'm actually wondering about the scorebook since she's got a table right on the back of her papers to fill in the trial results. I'd rather have the papers locked up in a Safe Deposit Box than carrying them to every trial. If ANYTHING happens to those papers it's a pain in the arse to get them back. 

I already had a heartattack when I thought they shredded them... and I'm trying to get Yukons papers for two years now...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Not sure what SV scorebooks are like but I have a WDA and a USCA/AWDF scorebook and they are both little books, separate from the pedigree and the registration papers.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I checked the contacts on the Website. Johannes Grewe is german but he wasn't home. His wife said that I do have to join the USCA in order to trial but that I don't have to be a member of a Club instead but that her husband can answer the questions better than her. It's pretty much the same as in Germany then. Just that I'd have to be a member of the USCA.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Do you know what show or trial you're going to? I'm going to Grewe's in April. I heard he is fair for working lines.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Liesje said:


> Do you know what show or trial you're going to? I'm going to Grewe's in April. I heard he is fair for working lines.


Where exactly is that show? We need to get Nala ready because she's turning two in June and I really want her to be shown before that.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It's in April near Bowling Green (I'm coming from west Michigan).


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Johannes is very fair to working lines. Just make sure your dog is trained. I have not shown under him (yet), but I have trialed under him a number of times (he is one of my favorite judges) and nothing irritates him more than a dog that isn't prepared for the field (or ring).


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Is that in Kentucky? Holy cow, that is around 15 hours. How long of a drive is it for you? 

Boy oh Boy... it better be a good day if we drive there.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Could I actually show her under GSDCA WDA? Would that rating be accepted by the SV/USCA since they have a show that isn't as far as Kentucky?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Whether they like it or not, all organizations have to recognize any rating given by an SV judge. The WDA is also a WUSV organization and uses exclusively SV judges for their shows. Nikon has shown in WDA and USCA shows all under SV judges and done Schutzhund at both WDA and USCA events, though I believe he's locked into USCA only now because his SchH title was not issued by an SV judge so I'm not sure if WDA would recognize it (I'd have to check, the way things have been going, I wouldn't be surprised if they did allow it since lately they've been erring on the side of accepting as many entries as possible). Pan has shown at a WDA show already. Sandra, I also just enter whatever events are convenient given the timing and the location. WDA, USCA, doesn't make any difference to me.

Both my dogs have been in the ring multiple times, Nikon in 4 SV type shows and countless UKC and AKC shows plus two conformation classes, and Pan in a few UKC shows an 1 SV type show. I've actually done ring training at the club hosting the event and plan to arrive with time to brush up (like a day before it starts). They are a good club for ring training and at the SV shows you can usually get your dog in the ring and move around between classes and practice, they don't care.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Sounds good. I just found somebody to get Nala prepared for the Show. He's near Rochester and was suggested by Dawn. He seems to be a really nice guy and suggested the WDA. So from now on we'll meet every second tuesday to get her ready and we should definitely be able to enter her into a show before June 28th and get her the Show Rating. 

I am just wondering. Do I need to be either a USCA or WDA member to show her in either one of them? You'd think it'd be enough to be a SV member. 

I'm already working on her feet, teeth, ears etc. I've stacked her a couple of times and she's good with placing the feet. 

Now I'm actually getting really excited about it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

For WDA, no you do not need to be a member to enter a club level show. I am not currently a member but I showed Pan in October. You do need certain paperwork so you might want to make sure you have what you need. If it is not clear, contact the club secretary of the club that's hosting the show.

I would also recommend doing the dental notation. Lately the SV judges have been doing them at every show. I think it's like an extra $15. They check the teeth and the bite and then you get a certificate. Then if your dog loses a tooth in training and you go back to breed survey, you have proof it was not a genetic fault.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

She doesn't have that one yet, good to know about it. 

Oh, I just read on her pink papers that she only can get a scorebook if I trialed her for ten times. So I have no idea how that works with the WDA. So the first ten trials have to be entered into her papers.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

Liesje said:


> The WDA is also a WUSV organization and uses exclusively SV judges for their shows. .


 
This is a INCORRECT statement. The GSDCA is a WUSV member and through a contract between the WDA and GSDCA, the WDA is allowed to procure SV judges for their event. But the WDA is NOT a WUSV member.

Entering a USCA event requirements from USCA website:


All entries must be USA members or members of an AWDF Member Club in good Standing, members must be able to provide proof of a valid membership at time of entry (membership card).
All dogs must have a USA Certified Scorebook or a bond must be posted.
Entries from outside the USA (Foreign members of WUSV or FCI Organizations) that do not have full time residence in the USA are exempt from theses rules.
Previous titles are only recognized from WUSV or FCI Organizations.
USA Judges will only sign or accept titles documented in a USA, AWDF Member Club or foreign score book or pedigree from a WUSV or FCI organization
 
And for those that have multiple scorebooks, The NEW 2012 IPO rules state that a dog may ONLY have 1 scorebook and a Judge may ONLY fill out 1 scorebook for a dog and the scorebook must be turned in before the start of the trial for the dog.


Hope this helps some

Frank


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

USCA Judges titles are recognized everywhere.

WDA only judges are not. 

I heard that the WDA was trying to have a SV DOJ seminar and get their judges the SV designation. IF that happens, then their titles will be recognized by everyone also.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

It does help. However, I am still wondering about the scorebook and her papers since the first ten trials have to be entered into her papers and only after those ten trials I'd get a scorebook from a Judge.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> It does help. However, I am still wondering about the scorebook and her papers since the first ten trials have to be entered into her papers and only after those ten trials I'd get a scorebook from a Judge.


 You can't get a scorebook from a judge, you get a scorebook from the organization you belong to. I believe you "can" use the pedigree in this country if you want. You may also get a scorebook instead.


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

_As a DVG member I am required to use a DVG scorebook so I brought this to the attention of the LRO for LV/DVG America since if I were to enter the AWDF Championship I am required to use the *AWDF* DVG scorebook version. In the past the judges were signing both books. It is his understanding that in the final, offical version this sentence/requirement has been deleted. The final of all final versions is not in English as of yet. Of course this is all subject to change...lol._


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

schh3fh2 said:


> You can't get a scorebook from a judge, you get a scorebook from the organization you belong to. I believe you "can" use the pedigree in this country if you want. You may also get a scorebook instead.


I stand corrected. You are right. I misread. The back of the pedigree can only be filled in by a judge (either working or confirmation). I can only order a scorebook if I have ten trials on the papers. 

I'll call Johannes Grewe tonight. Since he's German it's probably much easier to find out what I have to do and how it really works. 

I called the SV (Zuchtbuchamt) earlier about the change of ownership of Nala, hopefully the breeder will send them a "Bescheinigung" that would make it much easier than me sending the papers in and not possibly getting them back in time.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

KJenkins said:


> _As a DVG member I am required to use a DVG scorebook so I brought this to the attention of the LRO for LV/DVG America since if I were to enter the AWDF Championship I am required to use the *AWDF* DVG scorebook version. In the past the judges were signing both books. It is his understanding that in the final, offical version this sentence/requirement has been deleted. The final of all final versions is not in English as of yet. Of course this is all subject to change...lol._


It was NOT deleted from the final version. I was at the FCI Judges meeting in Breda Holland last month and it was a big slide on the presentation, only one scorebook per dog.... And is in the final FCI general board approved version of the 2012 rules....I am not sure how we will handle this within the AWDF as far as the DVG scorebook is concerned....I'm sure something will be worked out here....but the FCI rules govern. There will have to be a change here within the AWDF or it's member orgs....


Frank


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

schh3fh2 said:


> USCA Judges titles are recognized everywhere.
> 
> WDA only judges are not.
> 
> I heard that the WDA was trying to have a SV DOJ seminar and get their judges the SV designation. IF that happens, then their titles will be recognized by everyone also.



Good to know. The "WDA judges" confused me because I've been to probably a dozen WDA events in the past two years either as entered or photographer or last minute translator and have never seen anything but an SV judge. I did not know WDA judges even exist or who is using them. Seems like a pointless endeavor when their titles and ratings aren't really going to count.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Good to know. The "WDA judges" confused me because I've been to probably a dozen WDA events in the past two years either as entered or photographer or last minute translator and have never seen anything but an SV judge. I did not know WDA judges even exist or who is using them. Seems like a pointless endeavor when their titles and ratings aren't really going to count.


They count...but only within the WDA and the SV. All other countries do not recognize them.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I have a question, what kind of papers do the dogs get that are bred under the USCA?

Indra has the pink Austrian SV Papers (FCI). They are not German but they are still pink. 

What about the USCA? If I have the Show Rating, AD, BH, SchH1 and get her gekoered and have a litter with a USCA male that is gekoered as well, under the USCA what kind of papers would those pups get?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

USCA has a registration but really AKC is the FCI recognized registration in the USA, so you'd probably register the litter with the AKC. For all the USCA things I've entered, a-stamps, ordered scorebook, etc I have to send copies of my AKC papers.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Okay, because I was talking to the breeder and he would really like to have a pup out of her. If the dog isn't AKC registered but the parents have both the requirements, let's say she's got the SV papers, he's got the SV papers and both are gekoered. If they are bred in the USA they'd still get AKC papers even without them being AKC registered? 

Or how does it work? 
Or would it be easier to send her back to Germany and give her into Zuchtmiete?

Oi...too many questions LOL... just want to know what I really get myself into if I truly walk this path.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know it can work I'm just not sure how. Nikon was bred in Germany and his sire is not AKC but Nikon is full AKC.


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

schh3fh2 said:


> They count...but only within the WDA and the SV. All other countries do not recognize them.


Actually that depends. DVG counts them.


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

schh3fh2 said:


> It was NOT deleted from the final version. I was at the FCI Judges meeting in Breda Holland last month and it was a big slide on the presentation, only one scorebook per dog.... And is in the final FCI general board approved version of the 2012 rules....I am not sure how we will handle this within the AWDF as far as the DVG scorebook is concerned....I'm sure something will be worked out here....but the FCI rules govern. There will have to be a change here within the AWDF or it's member orgs....
> 
> 
> Frank


I have an email 12/21/2011 from DVG that says different Frank and since my scorebook is from DVG I guess for the time being I need to go with their info. Who knows maybe LV/DVG America will drop from the AWDF before they ask Germany to re-write rules so a handful of people can remain in compliance with the FCI rules if they want to enter the AWDF.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Okay, I talked to Johannes Grewe and he said that I have to be USCA member, the dog has to be registered with the USCA (sending in the papers) and that I have to get the scorebook. If I wanted the trials and showresults can be entered into the papers as well. 

However, if I just wanted to go to a local club to show her to have a result I wouldn't have to be a member of the USCA. She'd get her result just like anywhere else in Germany. If I want to take her to the Siegerschau I have to be a member, she's got to be registered and I need the scorebook. 

He said to give it a shot and go to Indianapolis to show her there in the 18-24 month class and he's the one judging the females. 

What ya'll think. Should I try and take her to the Siegerschau?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Shoot, Final Field Exam of the SAR Academy and the Siegerschau is at the same weekend... even if I watned I can't take her.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

You should take her if you can. For one, the Sieger Shows always have good vendors, so save up and buy training gear! I know of several working lines entering this coming Sieger Show.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Liesje said:


> You should take her if you can. For one, the Sieger Shows always have good vendors, so save up and buy training gear! I know of several working lines entering this coming Sieger Show.


There is just no way I can. I need to graduate from SAR Academy to certify Indra. With this I need to be loyal to my team. Unless somebody would show her for me but I have no idea how expensive that would be and I really don't want to give her out of my hands without being there myself. It's a 12 hour drive, there is just no way. I could only go Friday and would be supertired for the Final Field Exam which is on Saturday and Sunday.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

KJenkins said:


> I have an email 12/21/2011 from DVG that says different Frank and since my scorebook is from DVG I guess for the time being I need to go with their info. Who knows maybe LV/DVG America will drop from the AWDF before they ask Germany to re-write rules so a handful of people can remain in compliance with the FCI rules if they want to enter the AWDF.


Well, not sure what your email says...I just know that the judges from all over the world were told at the meeting that they can ONLY fill in one scorebook per dog and that each dog must only have one scorebook.... I didn't say anything about anyone asking Germany to re-write their rules...I said we would probably have to do something within the AWDF to comply.... I also don't think they are going to re-write the FCI rules to accomodate the DVG.....I think this is something that will have to be addressed here within this country somehow.

Frank


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

KJenkins said:


> Actually that depends. DVG counts them.


 Don't know about DVG rules, I guess they could...but not sure how they count titles awarded by Judges whose lic. are issued from an organization that is not a member with FCI or WUSV organization. 

Frank


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

I know that Landau is a SVF judge and has been for years and I specifically asked about Mike West and was informed his titles count also. I have always asked before I trial to make sure the judges will count.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> There is just no way I can. I need to graduate from SAR Academy to certify Indra. With this I need to be loyal to my team. Unless somebody would show her for me but I have no idea how expensive that would be and I really don't want to give her out of my hands without being there myself. It's a 12 hour drive, there is just no way. I could only go Friday and would be supertired for the Final Field Exam which is on Saturday and Sunday.


If you did show her you'd need a handler anyway.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Liesje said:


> If you did show her you'd need a handler anyway.


I know, but it's one thing if I am there and can see with my own eyes what happens with my dog and it's another to entrust the dog to somebody else... there are just too many variables. If she goes to the Siegerschau, not without me


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

KJenkins said:


> I know that Landau is a SVF judge and has been for years and I specifically asked about Mike West and was informed his titles count also. I have always asked before I trial to make sure the judges will count.


Did you ask what organization the "count" with? Of course they "count" but they are not recognized by all organizations. Organizations that require judges to be affiliated with a WUSV or FCI organization will not recognize the title because the WDA only judges are not affiliated with either organization.
The SV judges of course are recognized everywhere.


Frank


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

If that's the case then how do people make it to the WUSV team with WDA judges in their scorebook? 

All this will be a moot point probably after the seminar in NY in a few days since Mike West, Doug Alexander and Wendell Nope are be presented to get SV certification.


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## schh3fh2 (Oct 12, 2011)

KJenkins said:


> If that's the case then how do people make it to the WUSV team with WDA judges in their scorebook?
> 
> All this will be a moot point probably after the seminar in NY in a few days since Mike West, Doug Alexander and Wendell Nope are be presented to get SV certification.


 because the SV and WUSV recognize the titles through the WDA agreement with GSCDA (the WUSV member)

Exactly, then no one has anything to worry about.....


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

KJenkins said:


> If that's the case then how do people make it to the WUSV team with WDA judges in their scorebook?
> 
> All this will be a moot point probably after the seminar in NY in a few days since Mike West, Doug Alexander and Wendell Nope are be presented to get SV certification.


You mean the Gene England?


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

How did Gene England get into this thread?...lol


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