# Help a beginner?



## yward (Jan 28, 2011)

hi, I'm new to the site and also to German Shepherds. I decided to get one about 6 months ago and have been doing tons of research. One thing I've found is that it's practically impossible to figure out if a breeder is truly reputable, so I decided to come here and ask for help. I know "breeder bashing" is sort of outlawed here, but if anyone would be willing to PM me, I would really appreciate it.

One breeder I'm interested in is Salhaus German Shepherds in OR. If anyone has dealt with them or knows someone who has, I'd love to hear your experiences.

I live in an isolated part of the country and there aren't any breeders close by so I'm basically looking all over the country.

Thanks.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Basically what you need to do is find the lines you want, then screen breeders for a few common things;

Health testing. Dogs must be OFA'd and Cerf'd. 
Titles. Conformation Champions for the show lines, Schutzhund titles for working.
Then check out their guarantee/contract. Should be for over 2 years(health guarantee), they should require the puppy to come back to them if you can't keep it, would be nice if they micro-chipped. 

These are some basic things to look for in a breeder to make sure you're getting a quality dog for companionship. If you're looking to show/breed/work, you're going to need to dig a lot deeper to find what you want/need.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

:welcome: 

Could you help us by letting us know what your plans for the dog are? Pet, sport/work, show, etc..

Also, where you located? There may be breeders closer than you think and checking out a breeder in person is highly recommended

index
IMO I would not buy from this breeder. They are breeding "old fashioned" oversized GSDs basically ignoring what the GSD is supposed to be. They at least OFA hips but I see no titles that would do anything to prove temperament.

If you are looking for a pet GSD there are plenty of responsible breeders breeding within the standard producing sound dogs


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

These breeders look/sound familiar, I will look through a few past e-mails and messages to see if I ever discussed them before with another who has personal experience. I'll let you know if I find anything.

Most importantly, what are you looking for in a dog, and what about this particular breeder, and what about the breed in general, appeals to you? 

They brag of


> breed[ing] for an oversized dog, with a straight back. Some of our females through the years have weighed up to and over 100 pounds! With an average being 80-90 pounds. Our males have topped that weight, and generally reach at least 100 lbs, but generally go over that.


However looking at pictures their dogs do not look to be in good or fit condition. Someone who knows health and structure better than I do may correct me, but they look overweight to me. *Doc*, a member of this board, also owns and breeds larger German Shepherds and they do not look like that. If you are interested in this type I encourage you to PM him.

If you are in Oregon or specifically interested in getting a dog in the Oregon area, I will be happy to help you with finding breeders.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

index

I think generally you won't find people here endorsing a breeder that breeds dogs who are over 100 pounds and is proud of it. 

There are a lot of good people here. If you tell them what you are looking for, they'll point you in the right direction.


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## iglinska1 (May 10, 2010)

Theres a lot of breeders on this website from what I have seen, You should scope up some contacts and talk to them, cause anyone who's as obsessed with shepherds as us to join a forum should be credited.


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## yward (Jan 28, 2011)

*More detail*

wow, thanks for all the responses already. I wish I'd thought of this weeks ago.

My husband and I live a very active outdoor life and I mostly want a big dog who can keep up with me and enjoy hiking, trail-running, backpacking etc. 

I'm also involved in Search & Rescue and have begun to harbor the ambition of becoming a dog handler. I've been hanging out with the dog handlers a little bit, setting tracks for their dogs & so on. However, this is a secondary consideration because I'm not sure if I'll actually have time for this kind of training. None of them own German Shepherds.

I was drawn to the "straight-backed" German shepherds of Salhaus because I thought they might be less prone to hip problems. I have no interest in showing. Don't have any preference for extra big dogs. I do have an extremely strong preference for the black & tan saddleback and one thing I've noticed is that a lot of the working lines are much darker, lots of sables or blacks. Nothing wrong with sables or blacks, I just have this vision of the dog I've been wanting for a long time and he's a black & tan saddle-back.

I'm seriously thinking about getting an older puppy, 4-6 months, or even a young adult. 

I'm in WY. 

Again, thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

yward said:


> wow, thanks for all the responses already. I wish I'd thought of this weeks ago.
> 
> My husband and I live a very active outdoor life and I mostly want a big dog who can keep up with me and enjoy hiking, trail-running, backpacking etc.
> 
> ...


Sloped backs have zero to do with hips  There are show lines without the extreme angulation you may be thinking of as well.

Black and Tan saddle is most commonly found in West German show lines. A good WGSL breeder will have dogs that can be happy with an active lifestyle and also be capable of doing SAR. You will have to be honest with a breeder about your goals.

Another option would be looking for older dogs from breeders with some training already done.

If SAR is completely out getting a GSD from rescue is always a good idea


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

My experience is that a larger dog is fine (I have a 93lb male that is *just* barely in standard that I adore) but if you really want a dog that can go and has energy to keep up with you want a smaller dog (not small- but more like 75lbs) They are way more agile, and with less mass seem to be able to go for much longer periods of time. 

At least this has been my experience so far, the two biggest dogs I have (93lbs and 87lbs) are the ones most likely to seek shade in the heat, and most likely to get sluggish on me. My smaller dogs (66lbs 70lbs) act like they would go all day. 

Someone can correct me, but my impression is that a dog more in standard would be more beneficial in SAR. I would imagine the increased agility and smaller stature would make it easier for the dog to navigate rough terrain. The bigger and heavier the dog, generally the more wear and tear on the joints. 

The really big Shepherds I have known (100+ lbs) have always reminded me of the Mastiffs we used to own. Energy comes, but in shorter spurts. Additionally have you ever seen a sloped back Mastiff? Probably not. And they're pretty notorious for joint issues. Dysplasia has nothing to do with the angulation of the dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would think one would want a standard sized dog especially for SAR? I don't like to own a dog I couldn't pick up and carry out if something happened to him/her, and I don't even do SAR.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

yward said:


> wow, thanks for all the responses already. I wish I'd thought of this weeks ago.
> 
> My husband and I live a very active outdoor life and I mostly want a big dog who can keep up with me and enjoy hiking, trail-running, backpacking etc.
> 
> ...


yward, it is a very common misconception, but the "straightness" of a dog's back has little to nothing to do with the condition of the dog's hips. In addition, this dog









has as straight a back as this dog does
















A dog's back may not be parallel to the ground, but it is still straight.

If you are interested in SAR I feel that you are more likely to find a good prospect among the working lines. However, there are also many people involved in SAR with their show lines and rescues. You will have better luck with a breeder who breeds for a dog that still possesses the working ability, instinct, and drives a German Shepherd should possess than a breeder who only focuses on breeding for pet/companion dogs to cater to their own ideals of a pet dog, and to the general pet market. 

Find out what a breeder breeds for, the purpose behind the breedings, and what they believe their ideal dog to be. Breeders who want to produce good overall working dogs WILL produce more good working dogs than someone who wants to produce good pet only dogs, or dogs with good conformation only. Many on this forum alone produce (and own) dogs of good working ability and drive, sound temperament and nerves, nice working structure, who also serve as excellent companions and pets in the house. 

As far as color goes, you are right, not many working lines are saddle backs (although my pup's sire was), but blanket backs are very common. Show lines, German and American, are usually black/tan saddle backs, so you may wish to look into them. *Andaka *and *Xeph *on this forum comes to mind, they own/show/breed/work with American show lines and are more familiar with them than I am. They may know who to go to for a SAR prospect. German show lines are the more deeply pigmented black/tans (black/reds) as far as coat color goes and usually it is easier to find a dog with drive among these lines than it is among the Americans. However, it is perfectly possible to do so within any type. 

While dogs vary greatly within even one type individually, you will find (as already demonstrated) that generalizations can and will be made about every "line". The best option for you is to do your best to meet German Shepherds and speak to breeders and owners and those who currently train their dogs in SAR. Are there ever events or meet-ups or seminars among German Shepherd and working dog owners in your area?



JKlatsky said:


> My experience is that a larger dog is fine (I have a 93lb male that is *just* barely in standard that I adore) but if you really want a dog that can go and has energy to keep up with you want a smaller dog (not small- but more like 75lbs) They are way more agile, and with less mass seem to be able to go for much longer periods of time.
> 
> At least this has been my experience so far, the two biggest dogs I have (93lbs and 87lbs) are the ones most likely to seek shade in the heat, and most likely to get sluggish on me. My smaller dogs (66lbs 70lbs) act like they would go all day.
> 
> ...





Liesje said:


> I would think one would want a standard sized dog especially for SAR? I don't like to own a dog I couldn't pick up and carry out if something happened to him/her, and I don't even do SAR.


Two very good posts to take into strong consideration.


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

My thoughts are this:

- Some of their dogs are very big and at least one looks quite heavy
- They feed their puppies Nutra Nuggets - certainly not the best food but certainly not the worst. 
- The guarantee states "This guarantee does not cover dysplasia due to injury or improper nutrition or environmental conditions." I don't know what the max calcium is on the Nutra Nuggest food - the Min is fine but the Max is not listed...I can try to find it somewhere. To me the guarantee worries me only because if the puppies were fed a high calcium food to begin with they may have problems that could have been caused by the breeder feeding a lower quality food. I think this is an unlikely scenario but it is one that crossed my mind. 
- Years ago I did a project in high school about search and rescue dogs - specifically german shepherds since we had one at the time. He was a big dog. Bigger than a GSD should be - much like these dogs. The search and rescue group that I went and did research with when I brought my german shepherd they said he had a good nose but was waaaay too big to ever be a good search and rescue dog since they need to be smaller for helicopter rides and getting into small spaces. I don't know to what extent that is true or not. That GSD that I had was the sweetest, biggest GSD I've ever seen in person but did have hip problems later in life. RIP Simon 
- I think if a dog is too big/overweight they may have trouble keeping up on a trail/hike. 

All that being said I think there are probably lots of other breeders you could look at - if you want some in Oregon there are some good ones I know of. You can PM me if you want that info. 

I'm sure the other people on this site will have some suggestions to breeders they would trust and some closer by (hopefully). 

I do think that the puppies they have sold on their photo gallery are cute little buggers and look healthy with good temperaments. 

Maybe you could go visit them in person and see what you think  

You could make a trip down to the PacNW area and schedule meet and greets with a couple breeders then decide who you feel is the best for your situation 

Best of luck!!!


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Here is a breeder in Wyoming you may want to get in contact with. She is involved in AKC performance and appears to do herding, agility, therapy, and SAR with her dogs. 

Celhaus German Shepherds: German Import lines, dog treat recipes, dog quotes, Therapy Dogs, GSD Rescue

Here is a thread where another forum member with a Celhaus dog posted about her
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ble-future-breeding-thoughts.html#post1264846


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Rei said:


> Here is a breeder in Wyoming you may want to get in contact with. She is involved in AKC performance and appears to do herding, agility, therapy, and SAR with her dogs.
> 
> Celhaus German Shepherds: German Import lines, dog treat recipes, dog quotes, Therapy Dogs, GSD Rescue
> 
> ...


I cannot recommend Celhaus enough. Cel is wonderful and her dogs are great. 

Another breeder to look at is here in Idaho (Boise area). Her name is Heidi Theis and her website is www.theishof.com Her dogs are outstanding and well worth the trip.
Sheilah


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## yward (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks again, lots of excellent points made. It hadn't occurred to me that a bigger dog might have less stamina and it's true that we have to be careful of weight when getting on helicopters.

I checked out Celhaus and she does seem wonderful and have some beautiful dogs, but no older pups or adults currently available (I called). If I can't find an older dog, I'll probably end up getting on her waiting list. I'll also check out Vom Theishof (what gorgeous dogs on her website!!).

Does anyone have any experience with any of these guys:
Kirchenwald Shepherds

German Shepherd Puppies For Sale | Personal Protection Dogs For Sale l German Shepherd Imports l Police Dogs For Sale

German Shepherd dogs for sale, German Shepherd pupppies for sale


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## meanone101 (Dec 20, 2011)

I know its a little late but i own a Selhaus male german sheperd and a smaller female German Sheperd and the male is very active. Permalink did you buy a Selhaus dog?


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

Kirchenwald (highly reputable) wass one my top picks when I was looking for a puppy. Call the breeders and see which one you will click with.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Josie/Zeus said:


> Kirchenwald (highly reputable) wass one my top picks when I was looking for a puppy. Call the breeders and see which one you will click with.


This thread is a year old. I'm sure OP is long gone. Hopefully they found the dog they wanted.


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## Nataliecrowe (Aug 12, 2019)

I own two Salhous gsd’s. One female one male. Beautiful dogs great temperment, wonderful watch dogs, great with kids. Best dogs ever. I have been there numerous times the place is vlean, dogs are treated wonderful , they get plenty loving and excercise. I highly recommend these breeders!!!!


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

Nataliecrowe said:


> I own two Salhous gsd’s. One female one male. Beautiful dogs great temperment, wonderful watch dogs, great with kids. Best dogs ever. I have been there numerous times the place is vlean, dogs are treated wonderful , they get plenty loving and excercise. I highly recommend these breeders!!!!


This post is from 8 years ago!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Nataliecrowe said:


> I own two Salhous gsd’s. One female one male. Beautiful dogs great temperment, wonderful watch dogs, great with kids. Best dogs ever. I have been there numerous times the place is vlean, dogs are treated wonderful , they get plenty loving and excercise. I highly recommend these breeders!!!!


Nicely done. You see this @LuvShepherds @MineAreWorkingline @Jchrest ?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

^Donnie Downer


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> Nicely done. You see this @LuvShepherds @MineAreWorkingline @Jchrest ?


Your prediction. Old thread, breeders, new post. What more can we want except a party?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ^Donnie Downer


He likes being right.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> He likes being right.


He's so smart!


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

The only thing missing is the popcorn and wine!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jchrest said:


> The only thing missing is the popcorn and wine!


And a few extroverts.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

opcorn:


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> Jchrest said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing missing is the popcorn and wine!
> ...


If they show up, I’m outta here! 

Now who has the wine?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

3 of us are playing badminton on a tennis court.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Steve, you’re a dare devil!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Jchrest said:


> Steve, you’re a dare devil!


Fuddy duddy by day, daredevil by night?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Fuddy duddy by day, daredevil by night?


Yes and he’s always right.


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