# HOT dog- what's this mean?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I know that it stands for *H*andler *O*wner *T*rained, but what does _that_ actually mean? If the owner paid for training classes, I assume the dog is no longer hot trained. But what if the owner takes training advice from a trusted friend or something? 

I am just curious on what the "rules" are (if such exist) for what constitutes HOT dogs. I think it must be a really rewarding thing to say your dog is handler/owner trained!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think it means that you didn't buy a dog already trained or send it away to "boot camp" training. It does mean that you can't hire a professional to show/handle your dog for the event or show.

You can take classes where they show YOU how to train your dog. After all, you've done all the work.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

It means you own the dog, you trained the dog yourself and you trialed the dog.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> you trained the dog yourself


This is the part I am confused about. See even in this response, it differs from what I would personally consider _me_ training the dog:



Dainerra said:


> You can take classes where they show YOU how to train your dog. After all, you've done all the work.


True, you typically do all the work when going to training classes. But I guess I was always under the impression that people who HOT train their dogs didn't even need to go to classes- they kinda just knew how to do it all themselves. They don't need the guidance of a pro trainer.

I am sure it is just a judgement call on how far you want to take the "HOT" label, I just wondered specifically on going to training classes/seminars/etc.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I _think_ this is mostly used in Schutzhund - You can buy a dog that is already trained and titled, and take your trained dog and enter high-level competitions with him/her. Or you can research bloodlines, buy a puppy (or keep one back from your own breeding), raise him/her, train and title him yourself. Much greater accomplishment to do this with a pup that you have trained yourself than with a dog that you bought already trained, or as mentioned, sent away for training.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Ah! Now that would be a great explanation! I was thinking- how can you possibly train the dog _entirely_ by yourself. In other words- you could never go to a club and have a helper. You could never go to any classes for socialization. There are so many situations that I, personally, feel would break the title since you are getting help from an outside influence.

...But if it simply means you didn't buy the dog pre-trained- well then, that changes everything.


Dianerra- I know you said the same thing. I guess it didn't "click" for me when I read your response. Kudos on saying it first though.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

wildo said:


> But I guess I was always under the impression that people who HOT train their dogs didn't even need to go to classes- they kinda just knew how to do it all themselves. They don't need the guidance of a pro trainer.


Remember, going to training classes is not JUST about learning how to train your dog.

Even now, after having owned and trained over 15 dogs (covering over half a dozen different breeds) I *still* take a dog to classes.

It helps me work the dog around distractions. It helps me bond with the dog.

And I can honestly say that I have learned something new from every class I've been through with my dogs. I've learned what TO do and what NOT to do.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Ditto that on classes....I find them to be a very social doggie outlet and enjoy them tremendously. It's a great way to proof your dog and great way to learn various techniques and methods.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Well in that case- I am proud to say Pimg is HOT trained! haha- admittedly, it means so much less than what I thought though. I suspect the _majority_ of dogs are HOT trained. :rofl:


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

If you start with a pup or green dog that has no real training, train it and title it, it is HOT.

If you buy a green dog already with training, or a fully trained but not yet titled dog, it is not HOT.

If you send the dog away for professional training, it is not HOT. This goes for trainers who train the dog from start to finish, but also if one were to send the dog away to "tracking camp" or "forced retrieve" camp for a few days or weeks or months to have someone else work on a particular area.

If you work with a club, training facility, coach, and they help YOU train YOUR dog, it is still HOT. You can't train a dog without those things. Not to the title level anyway. I mean good grief, how would one be both handler and helper for their dog in protection so as to never get help if that's what HOT required? That's not what the title is about. It is there to give credit to the folks who go the extra mile to do it themselves.

Of course, most of the time this goes by honor system. There indeed are people who have purchased dogs with training, maybe even to the point of being ready to title, and sent dogs off for training elsewhere, and still claim HOT. The only proof that the organizations like USCA look for to verify if a dog is HOT is if the owner/handler trialed for all of the titles. There is no way for them to prove one way or the other if the person truly did all the training, they just trust people to be honest. Which most are, but not all of course. Same with anything else in life.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

No one trains a dog without help! 

If you title the dog - BH to Sch 1/2/3 - it is considered a HOT dog by USA's rules....the level of help you get is irrelevant...even if someone takes the dog for a time and gives it some practice time, if you did the titles, it is considered an HOT dog. If an owner puts in 700 hours on dog, and someone else does 25 hours of practice to help them out - it is still a HOT dog when the owner titles it....every dog has had someone else help on the training...that is why they made the rule to make it the person who titles the dog.

Nothing is perfect. This is one designation that has so many nuances, that you can hardly ever get 2 people in total agreement on it....

Lee


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

wolfstraum said:


> that is why they made the rule to make it the person who titles the dog.


Oh wait- I think I _did_ misunderstand. Who is "they?" What is the rule? Is "HOT" a title or something that is defined in the rulebook for some dog sport? See- I thought it was just a way for someone to say: "My dog is SchH3, and I did it myself- therefore it's a greater accomplishment."

I didn't realize (not sure I even do yet ) that it was actually a term defined in some rulebook somewhere.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

And Chris- you were the first person/place (your sig) I ever saw that term. I just figured it was because you and your pups are so awesome...


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

HOT is a SchH term, originally put into place by USCA.
The rule of what it means has changed a couple times since it's inception. At one point it was that the person had to own the dog by the time the dog was 6 months old, the theory being to prevent people from claiming it when they started with an already trained dog. Now as Lee says, it only means if the dog was trained and titled by the person. But either way, based on age or who is listed as handler for all the trials, the rules do still say that the dog should not have had significant outside training. No longer an age restriction for when the dog was acquired, but still can't have been acquired already trained regardless of age.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks guys! I didn't realize at all that it was actually a SchH term. Makes sense. So what does B/HOT mean? Oh- breeder?


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I thought it was still handler owner trained, not handler owner titled. What year did that change?

I know of someome that bought a fully trained 4 year old and is now titling the dog. So, that would be a HOT dog?

So, why even have the designation anymore?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Sue- I don't really hang out in the SchH forum because it's not really my thing right now. But I was looking at your signature and... ugh... WOW! Your dogs are pretty intense! Congrats on that; I find it incredible.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Per the USCA Website:

To qualify as Handler Owner Trained (H.O.T.), the
following criteria must be met:

1. The dog must be owned and registered in the name of
the handler.
2. A significant amount of the training of the dog may not
have been done by someone other than the owner
without the owner being involved in the training; e.g.,
the dog may not have been sent to a trainer for the
retrieve, heeling, protection, or tracking.
3. The dog may not have been trained to the level of being
ready to pass a BH before purchase. When purchasing a
scorebook or entering a trial with a H.O.T. dog, the
handler/owner may be required to sign a statement that
the requirements listed above have been met. Falsely
entering a dog as a Handler Owner Trained (H.O.T.)
will result in the handler being disqualified for
"unsportsmanlike conduct” from the entered event, and
may also result in possible BOI charges that may include
loss of USA membership.


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