# Another dog fight ... :(



## ZoeandMoe (Dec 6, 2013)

The reason I say "another" is because my my girls just had their first fight 2 weeks ago. I have read a lot since, especially on this board about two bitches fighting. Let me explain the scenario. Zoe, 14 month GSD and Bella 15 month mix. Bella is a rescue and fixed. Zoe is not fixed. They have always been friends. I made a mistake and gave both the girls there own RMB. in the same room. After a half hour of chewing, Zoe decided to walk over to Bella and calmly take her bone. no incident. I saw this and told Zoe no and gave it back to Bella. 10 minutes later, Zoe walks back over to her and Bella growled just a little bit. All **** broke loose. In a blink of an eye, it was an all out fight. It took a good 10 seconds for me to get a hold of the situation and thankfully, no one was hurt. I had my eye's intently watching while separating and noticed while Zoe was the dominate one on top, they never actually "Bit" each other. Just VERY scary and nose to nose. The problem I am facing now is I have to constantly correct Zoe as she walks by Bella and intimidates her for no reason. Bella is the picture of a lap dog. Sweet, cuddly, not a protective bone in her body. When Zoe walks up to her, for whatever reason, Zoe will lean on her and stare her down. Bella will put her head down, tail between her legs and then lay down. She wants no part of the intimidation. I am constantly correcting Zoe and just got a trainer involved. (we start Saturday) I guess I just have a hard time wondering why? Bella is so submissive and doesn't start anything. I am worried that this can happen again as Zoe apparently feels the need to assert her queen dog status? Is it normal for a bitch to be that assertive to a submissive bitch?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I would correct her strongly for even staring....make her think the world is coming to an end....put a prong and a long tab on her and as soon as she postures....take ahold of her and use your voice STRONGLY....and repeat if necessary...let her wear the prong and tab for a while....I had one female who only needed 2 strong corrections and lived for years peacefully afterwards....

Caution - will not work with every dog...but it is the first step I'd try.

Lee


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## ZoeandMoe (Dec 6, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> I would correct her strongly for even staring....make her think the world is coming to an end....put a prong and a long tab on her and as soon as she postures....take ahold of her and use your voice STRONGLY....and repeat if necessary...let her wear the prong and tab for a while....I had one female who only needed 2 strong corrections and lived for years peacefully afterwards....
> 
> Caution - will not work with every dog...but it is the first step I'd try.
> 
> Lee


Thanks Lee .... I know I need to get a handle on this ASAP. It is not fair to Bella walking around in fear. Thanks for your input!


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> it was an all out fight. It took a good 10 seconds for me to get a hold of the situation and thankfully, no one was hurt





> they never actually "Bit" each other. Just VERY scary and nose to nose.


See if they don't actually bite each other it is not really a fight. It is more a show of aggression.

You may find it 'Scary' but you shouldn't. It is normal when there is friction between dogs. The cooler you are the easier it is to stop. If you scream and try to pull dogs apart there is more chance of a dog actually biting which then triggers a real fight. 



> Zoe decided to walk over to Bella and calmly take her bone. no incident. I saw this and told Zoe no and gave it back to Bella.


This is the issue. It is not so much of a problem feeding both dogs at the same time once you are there to supervise and intervene at the right time. Zoe should have been verbally corrected *before* she got the bone of Bella. Also it would have been better to take the bone away as soon as any tension was created rather than giving it back to the weaker dog.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

zoe is trying to become boss and you need to curb it all. no bones together, feed separately.
zoe's looking for reasons to throw down and you have to take all triggers away. 
you don't need to wonder "why", you just need to make it stop. no staring, no food fights, 
no shows of dominance, etc. 
it's going to be a mess from here on out. consider gating and crating and rotating.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Have you considered spaying Zoe?


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Something similar happened with my Molly and my daughter's roomate's Akita. They have been friends for a while, then the littlest thing set the Akita off - she is not spayed.
Neither dog was injured like OP's scenario.

Can spaying help a female dog be less aggressive?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Gretchen said:


> Something similar happened with my Molly and my daughter's roomate's Akita. They have been friends for a while, then the littlest thing set the Akita off - she is not spayed.
> Neither dog was injured like OP's scenario.
> 
> Can spaying help a female dog be less aggressive?


I doubt spaying will make much difference at this point... after the fact. But I am in "no way" an expert. I have dealt with Dominate dog aggression but with males. 

I would never allow those two to be together, they now have a history.If this is a want to rather than a have to situation..just don't!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

ZoeandMoe said:


> When Zoe walks up to her, for whatever reason, Zoe will lean on her and stare her down.


Right there! She should never be allowed to get that close! I see you have a trainer coming so that's a very good step.

Drag leash and a Dominate dog collar would help keep you safe. If they clash again this will be useful and explains the how and why of the tools. 

Leerburg | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!

Wish for the best to you all.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Can spaying help a female dog be less aggressive?


I know there are different theories out there but I think in some cases it will stop the females being aggressive.

The reason why i think this is simply the female won't have a hormone change twice a year. When the hormones kick of in a female in heat she is much more likely to fight another female. Other females are aroused if a female is in heat and then they are also more likely to fight or trigger one.

If they are spayed they don't have this hormone change. They're simply not in the game. They can still fight over food and territory but won't have the heightened aggression during a heat.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

It is thought that testostrone is what causes agression and a spayed bitch has more testostrone percentage wise than an intact bitch. So that is why they do not think that spaying will decrease agression.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

middleofnowhere said:


> It is thought that testostrone is what causes agression and a spayed bitch has more testostrone percentage wise than an intact bitch. So that is why they do not think that spaying will decrease agression.


I thought it was something like that. I know a neuter male won't stop aggression.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I thought it was something like that. I know a neuter male won't stop aggression.


Note 
I know neutering a male won't necessarily stop aggression. That's what I was trying to say.


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## ZoeandMoe (Dec 6, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Right there! She should never be allowed to get that close! I see you have a trainer coming so that's a very good step.
> 
> Drag leash and a Dominate dog collar would help keep you safe. If they clash again this will be useful and explains the how and why of the tools.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chip, Real nice read !


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## ZoeandMoe (Dec 6, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> Have you considered spaying Zoe?


Yes, We have. I won't have it done until she is through her 3rd heat cycle though. She just finished her 2cd. After reading a lot of others comments though on various threads, I am certainly not convinced spaying will help. For now, They are separated during the day and under my watchful eye during other times. After the fight poor Bella was shaking and scared. I know she want's nothing to do with another fight. It is Zoe who keeps trying to assert her dominance. If I let it go, nothing may come of it, Bella backs down in a hurry. I just don't want to take that chance.


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