# Raw diet newbie, does this look right?



## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

This is not for my GSD but please help. 
I have been struggling with my pups allergies for way too long! He would have a reaction to every dog food we tried, and we tried a ton. So I decided to get his intolerances tested. Basically it came back that he is having a reaction to the additives in dog food, not a specific protein or grain. 
Please someone help me to figure out if I'm doing this right. 
He's 66lbs pit mix but could lose some weight, he has been on a salmon dog food and gained a bit of weight. 
How does this look per day?
12.8 oz chicken breast
2 oz chicken thigh w/bone
.8 oz beef liver
.8 oz pork kidney
Quail egg
Sardines 
Yogurt
Turmeric 
Coconut oil
Spinach 

Any help is GREARLY APPRECIATED! 

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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sounds good. What does the dog get though?


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## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Sounds good. What does the dog get though?


Right! Lol I don't eat this good!
Is it too much per day? I don't want to miss something he needs and make him sick from a diet that is suppose to make him better. 

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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Your dog should get a minimum of one and a third pounds of food a day for maintenance, less to lose weight,with at least 10% of it being bone. 
Chicken is not that great of a protein.
Ideal is to feed a variety of proteins, and make sure there is enough fat. Preferable to feed thigh, breast is too lean.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

deeeex2 said:


> This is not for my GSD but please help.
> I have been struggling with my pups allergies for way too long! He would have a reaction to every dog food we tried, and we tried a ton. So I decided to get his intolerances tested. Basically it came back that he is having a reaction to the additives in dog food, not a specific protein or grain.
> Please someone help me to figure out if I'm doing this right.
> He's 66lbs pit mix but could lose some weight, he has been on a salmon dog food and gained a bit of weight.
> ...


No. You are missing zinc, copper, probably have to much Vit A with the liver/kidney amount. I do not feed any pork organs. The butcher I buy stuff from highly advised against it because of the flukes in the organs. 

I don't know what test you did for "intolerances" but the only true test for food allergies is an elimination diet and you have 5 different proteins and dairy in that list. Because of your restrictions, I would recommend you use BalanceIT or make/use a spreadsheet based off of required nutritional values for dogs. I have one I can send to help if you need. I can all but guarantee you will need to buy supplements to balance this.

So first you need to decide what amount of calories he needs to maintain proper weight and just like humans, it varies with each dog. My female who was active in agility and whose top weight was 75# needed only 1# of food per day to maintain.


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## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

Great, thank you for the help! What are some ideal meats? 
Wouldn't the chicken breast help with cutting his weight or is it too lean for body function? 
I was trying to keep it pretty simple to start, that's why I chose chicken. And it seemed cheaper than most things .97 lb for chicken breast .77 lb for whole chicken thighs. 

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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes, chicken breasts are low fat. But what about iron and taurine that is red meat? You can feed chicken to start for sure. It's common to do so. Just make sure you are getting him all the nutrients he needs. I think you'll find he loses weight switching to raw because you've taken away all the high carb protein sources.

There is no "ideal" meat. I feed a variety. Beef is my base. Sardines, chicken, duck, turkey, sardines, mackerel, oysters are all added. I feed a variety of vegetables (spinach, carrot leaves, peppers, tomatoes, watermelon, apples, berries, squashes) I alternate a premade raw with homemade for balance.

But I would not advise you do this until you work out his allergies.


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## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> No. You are missing zinc, copper, probably have to much Vit A with the liver/kidney amount. I do not feed any pork organs. The butcher I buy stuff from highly advised against it because of the flukes in the organs.
> 
> I don't know what test you did for "intolerances" but the only true test for food allergies is an elimination diet and you have 5 different proteins and dairy in that list. Because of your restrictions, I would recommend you use BalanceIT or make/use a spreadsheet based off of required nutritional values for dogs. I have one I can send to help if you need. I can all but guarantee you will need to buy supplements to balance this.
> 
> So first you need to decide what amount of calories he needs to maintain proper weight and just like humans, it varies with each dog. My female who was active in agility and whose top weight was 75# needed only 1# of food per day to maintain.


We tried so many novel protein diets, supplements, adding this or that to his food, pills, injections, etc, etc. Our vet suggested we try a cooked diet for him, vet doesn't like raw diets. But I have always felt like raw is a much better way to go nutritionally. 

The test I used is from 5strands. I'm not saying that it's the holy grail of answers but it did point to what I already suspected, it's the processed dog food additives. Which explains why he has a reaction to all of the commercial diets. 

As far as weight and condition of his body. It all needs to change unfortunately. The only diet that he has been able to handle is TOTW grain free salmon. That has left him plump with little muscle mass or energy. 

I live in Baton Rouge, LA, you would think I would be able to find any cut or organ. After searching the discount grocery stores, asian market, Hispanic market, etc I cant find anything but pork kidney. If there is anyone in BR or NO that knows where to go please let me in on the secret!

I am not the richest person but I will buy what is needed to get this boy healthy. He came to me covered in scabs, abused, and broken. He does ok on TOTW, most average pet owners would probably say it's good enough. But that's not me lol, I'm not giving up on optimal health and happiness for him. 

Yes, please send me the spreadsheet! Thank you! I thought about buying a meal plan from someone but I really want to learn what to give him and why. Not just blindly follow a recipe. 

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## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

What about adding something like Nupro?









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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ya know...I went down this rabbit hole blaming the food. What I found after years of my dog suffering was that food allergies are not that common. What IS common is environmental allergies. 
-So before you go thru all this trouble, did you do an environmental allergy test? The scratch test is the gold standard but you can do a blood test as well. 
-What are his allergy symptoms? 
- do you notice an increase in symptoms in different seasons? more itching when winter arrives and the heat goes on? Sneezing and throat clearing in the spring/summer/fall? Eye discharge?
-Did you know that storage mites and dust mites are common allergies and are in kibble? It might not be the food at all but the mites in the food, which would REALLY explain why he reacts to all commercial diets.
-did you try freezing his kibble to kill the mites and feed the food right from the freezer? 

I've never heard of this 5Strands but IME, if that test didnt' come from a vet and done properly, I wouldn't give it much value.


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## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

Jax08 said:


> Ya know...I went down this rabbit hole blaming the food. What I found after years of my dog suffering was that food allergies are not that common. What IS common is environmental allergies.
> -So before you go thru all this trouble, did you do an environmental allergy test? The scratch test is the gold standard but you can do a blood test as well.
> -What are his allergy symptoms?
> - do you notice an increase in symptoms in different seasons? more itching when winter arrives and the heat goes on? Sneezing and throat clearing in the spring/summer/fall? Eye discharge?
> ...


I have not tried freezing his food first 
He definitely has environmental and a flea allergy. But those are controlled with claritin and ZERO fleas. 
He gets the usual severe itching, ear infections, hair loss from scratching, rash but his system also reacts with producing a lot of oiliness in his coat. If he is bathed while this is happening it will make it worse. I've never seen anything like this particular symptom before. 
There is definitely something in the food. I have not had the allergy bloodwork done because I have seen it not make a difference, it's a lot of money to waste.(previously worked in veterinary med) BUT if this diet doesn't help I will be going that route next. 
I don't always feel like I get enough answers at the vet's office. No fault of their's, I feel like something is off with his immune system maybe, maybe he's allergic to several things. I also don't feel like vet med knows enough about dog's allergies and diet etc. 

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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok. My dog had all of those and it was all caused by environmental, not food. He's been on raw his entire life. Good luck with the diet. Send your email address so I can send the spreadsheet.


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## Wheelock98 (Nov 6, 2020)

Sunflowers said:


> Your dog should get a minimum of one and a third pounds of food a day for maintenance, less to lose weight,with at least 10% of it being bone.
> Chicken is not that great of a protein.
> Ideal is to feed a variety of proteins, and make sure there is enough fat. Preferable to feed thigh, breast is too lean.


Adopted a 5 y.o. (EST) stray couple of months ago & she was in very poor condition, and also smelled terrible. Twice a day I’ve been feeding: 1 3/4 cup Science diet, 1t Red Cell vitamins, 2t ground flax seed and with the a.m meal I add a small piece of calves liver. I’ve bathed her and bathe her and there still a funk. Add 3 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar to her water and that’s helped her smell bunch. She’s gained some weight her coat is getting machinI’ve bathed her and bathe her and there still a funk. Add 3 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar to her water and that’s helped her smell bunch. She’s gained some weight & her coat is getting Shiny. I’m home most of the time We spent a lot of time together. She was very skittish when I first got her and that’s improved as well.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

There's a vet derm who practices with Baton Rouge Veterinary Specialists (they share a suite with the Sherwood South vet clinic): Dermatology . You can also consult with one at LSU Vet School's Teaching Hospital, but you'll only get to talk to the derm resident (not the board-certified faculty member advising the resident), and their prices are as high as BRVS. (For my money, I'd just as soon talk to the actual board-certified doctor and avoid the "let me go ask and call you back" conversations that I seem to have a lot of with LSU.)

If you need a vet who won't get mad at you for feeding raw, go see Dr. Adrian Bergeron at Highland Road Animal Hospital. He doesn't encourage it and has to tell you the official "party line" warning, but if your decision is to do it anyway, he'll ask you questions about whether you're doing it safely, how you're ensuring nutritional balance and completeness, and he'll have some things to say about safe handling -- but he has several raw-fed patients and isn't mad about it as long as the dog is healthy and the owners are smart about it. He helped me get my GSD's true food allergies (which caused severe GI inflammation) under control. I can send him research and ask him what he thinks, and he always gets back to me with thoughts on the article, test, or protocol -- he's REALLY good about talking things through with me in a spirit of intelligent dialogue (not bullying). They're also probably the best clinic in metro-Baton Rouge for "high end" care IMHO -- expensive, but state of the art, AAHA-accredited, and fear-free certified. Adrian is great with German Shepherds and a very skilled surgeon. They even let me board my dogs with frozen raw food dropped off in pre-portioned freezer bags (they're smart enough to keep it frozen and pull out the next day's portion to thaw in the fridge, when my dogs are there for longer stays) -- and they have a NICE boarding set-up (again, expensive, but WAY better kennel staff than other places).

Itching, hotspots, and coat problems are the #1 reasons for vet visits in South Louisiana. MANY dogs have undiagnosed colonized yeast and staph infections. It's not just fleas you have to worry about. All Spring we had buffalo flies coming up from the river biting people and dogs. There are weird little bugs in the grass that bite seasonally that aren't fleas. The pollen in Spring and Fall can be horrendous. Sugar cane burning in the Fall can make eyes of pets and people itch. Fungus problems are rampant from the moisture. Most dogs that were fished out of flood waters in 2016 have long-term skin issues from the toxic and bacterial witches' brew -- the ones that got chlorhex baths aggressively after being pulled out recovered more easily; others seem to have permanent issues and skin that never gets back to normal.

I buy chlorhexidene shampoo by the gallon in Louisiana for both rescue dogs AND personal dogs in Louisiana. Most of my fosters have needed a month of weekly baths, or more. A vet derm confirmed to me that chlorhex baths are the gold-standard, first intervention for itching because if owners are diligent, it gives relief many of the itchy dogs here with environmental issues.

I prefer either 4% chlorhexidene veterinary shampoo or one with ketoconozole added to the chlorhex. It doesn't foam, so it doesn't strip coat oils -- it's designed for VERY frequent use. Many of the dogs need to be bathed with it 2x weekly, then weekly, then every other week, and then monthly for a long time to beat back what's colonized their skin. Just follow the bottle directions EXACTLY and use it from the shoulders down (NEVER on the head as it can cause blindness if it gets in the eye).

For raw, there's a Louisiana distributor of Tefco in New Orleans: Raw High Quality Dog Food Paleo Diet | Tefco -- I haven't used it, but others here have. Kurt at Neighborhood Pet Market also stocks an assortment of commercial raw and will special order just about anything (he special-orders Primal's 80-10-10 frozen product for me, which runs about $4/pound for beef, and I use it with The Honest Kitchen Base Mix). There is no raw food co-op here.

I've tried for years to get the owner of Marsh Dog to sell me ground nutria meat, but he's afraid of litigation. You _might_ be able to find a rural meat market in South Louisiana that has it, but I don't know of one. Old timers tell me it used to be common in those small-town markets in Cajun areas but has vanished as young people won't eat it. It would be the cleanest, inexpensive source of red meat for raw feeding, if it were available -- and environmentally friendly too, since nutria are an invasive species destroying marshes. Someone could make a good business selling raw frozen nutria grind for dog food here! THAT would be the ideal co-op here, actually, if some local processor could be enlisted to buy the carcasses from the guys who are out getting the state-run bounties on the nutria (and currently throwing the carcasses away).

If you don't want to us BalanceIt.com or use the spreadsheet that's been offered, why not feed a base-mix to cover possible holes? (The Honest Kitchen, Dr. Harvey, Volhard, Sojo's, etc.).


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## deeeex2 (Nov 6, 2020)

Magwart said:


> There's a vet derm who practices with Baton Rouge Veterinary Specialists (they share a suite with the Sherwood South vet clinic): Dermatology . You can also consult with one at LSU Vet School's Teaching Hospital, but you'll only get to talk to the derm resident (not the board-certified faculty member advising the resident), and their prices are as high as BRVS. (For my money, I'd just as soon talk to the actual board-certified doctor and avoid the "let me go ask and call you back" conversations that I seem to have a lot of with LSU.)
> 
> If you need a vet who won't get mad at you for feeding raw, go see Dr. Adrian Bergeron at Highland Road Animal Hospital. He doesn't encourage it and has to tell you the official "party line" warning, but if your decision is to do it anyway, he'll ask you questions about whether you're doing it safely, how you're ensuring nutritional balance and completeness, and he'll have some things to say about safe handling -- but he has several raw-fed patients and isn't mad about it as long as the dog is healthy and the owners are smart about it. He helped me get my GSD's true food allergies (which caused severe GI inflammation) under control. I can send him research and ask him what he thinks, and he always gets back to me with thoughts on the article, test, or protocol -- he's REALLY good about talking things through with me in a spirit of intelligent dialogue (not bullying). They're also probably the best clinic in metro-Baton Rouge for "high end" care IMHO -- expensive, but state of the art, AAHA-accredited, and fear-free certified. Adrian is great with German Shepherds and a very skilled surgeon. They even let me board my dogs with frozen raw food dropped off in pre-portioned freezer bags (they're smart enough to keep it frozen and pull out the next day's portion to thaw in the fridge, when my dogs are there for longer stays) -- and they have a NICE boarding set-up (again, expensive, but WAY better kennel staff than other places).
> 
> ...


Thank you, that's a lot of great info!
Unfortunately after LSU miss diagnosed my GSD about 10 years ago and tried to put him down, I do not use them. It's also not worth spending more time there since I've found it costs more. It should be much cheaper since it's a teaching hospital, but don't get me started! Lol
Thank you again, I will check into all of these!

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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You could probably make a simpler spreadsheet than mine by using AAFCO requirements. I got your PM with your email address and will send the spreadsheet when I have time that already has several food inputted with reference links.


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