# Can't decide which breeder in OK to go with....



## bigboned3

Hey all,

I have found two breeders that look pretty decent. The first has dogs that are priced very well, but I am not sure if it is what I am looking for. They only breed "Heidelburg". The second breeder, I am sure most of you are familiar with is vom Haus Merkel. Yes they are way over-priced, but I'd rather pay more than get a GSD that has not been taken care of well or has temperment issues just to save a few bucks. 

Anyhow, can you take a look at Keystone German Shepherds & Kennels and tell me what you think of them? Also, does anyone agree with paying a little bit more to get a better quality GSD? I know others can be had for less, but they are so hard to find!!! If anyone can recommend a great breeder within no more than a 3-4 hour drive of Oklahoma City,OK then that would be wonderful if they have great GSD's and great prices with them!

Thanks,

Brandon


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## GSDOwner2008

I have two of my boys from vom haus merkel. If you get a dog, I would get it out of Putz or Puma's litters as they are full blooded siblings of my Apollo, and half to my Zeus. Both Apollo and Zeus are/were very easy to train and intelligent dogs. Not to mention they had fantastic pedigrees! It's a lot of money, but well worth it in my opinion.


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## onyx'girl

Apollo had temperament issues, though-didn't he?
The Keystone kennel, why would they have an ear taping tab? GSD's ears should not need help if they are of good genetics. I would look at a few threads here on choosing a breeder, take some time and don't rush in your search. I see nothing on their site that would want me to invest in them.


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## GSDOwner2008

onyx'girl said:


> Apollo had temperament issues, though-didn't he?


Those were my fault. He wasn't socialized at a young age because he had gotten ill. Plus I think having two male dogs at once also factored into it.

ETA: Zeus has been an only dog for awhile and he's the best dog I've had. His only issue is he's a bit vocal, but that's because the family always gives him what he wants when he barks. Which again, is on us.


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## BlackthornGSD

bigboned3 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have found two breeders that look pretty decent. The first has dogs that are priced very well, but I am not sure if it is what I am looking for. They only breed "Heidelburg". The second breeder, I am sure most of you are familiar with is vom Haus Merkel. Yes they are way over-priced, but I'd rather pay more than get a GSD that has not been taken care of well or has temperment issues just to save a few bucks.
> 
> Anyhow, can you take a look at Keystone German Shepherds & Kennels and tell me what you think of them? Also, does anyone agree with paying a little bit more to get a better quality GSD? I know others can be had for less, but they are so hard to find!!! If anyone can recommend a great breeder within no more than a 3-4 hour drive of Oklahoma City,OK then that would be wonderful if they have great GSD's and great prices with them!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon


Typical, normal, prices for a good pet puppy with a hip guarantee from imported _*working *_lines from titled parents who also have hip certifications would be around $1200-$2500. Typical, normal prices for a good (healthy) pet puppy from imported show/conformation lines would be $1500-$3000. This would be from very good bloodlines and from reputable, respected breeders who health test, who socialize their puppies, and who to carefully place their puppies in good homes that match well.

So, in looking at the pricing scheme, I don't think it's a matter of being willing to "spend a little bit more to get a quality puppy" -- I think it's a matter of how much can the market bear and how much are you willing to spend for them to tell you got "Choice Select" puppy instead of just a "Choice" puppy?

In regards to the 2nd website: 

What bloodlines are they breeding? They don't list any pedigrees on the website--so are they breeding first generation imports or 10th generation inbred backyard dogs? What do they do with their dogs to judge their breedworthiness? What health tests? What do they guarantee? The website doesn't answer any of these questions.


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## gsd_lover

Umm, I know nothing about breeders in your region but looking at the Keystone site there is no mention of any health guarrantees, hip/elbow ratings or certification of parents, no pedigrees of breeding stock, no terms or conditions on the sale of puppies. I would be leery of this one IMHO.


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## bigboned3

Thanks for the fast replies! I agree that Keystone looks a little odd in the fact it mentions more about Heidelburg than their own business and what they offer, how the pups are raised, etc etc. I am wanting to go with vom Haus Merkel, but I am just having a really hard time with spending 4-6 thousand. My last german shepherd, you couldnt put a price on her. She was the love of my life! So maybe that is the mentality that I need to go in with this. I will continue searching, but also if anyone else knows of any breeders in any bordering states of Oklahoma that would be great.

Also, what is everyones opinion on the wonderful, reputable breeders like Alta-Tollhaus where you can get your pup shipped to you so distance isnt an issue, but you cant actually play with, interact, and see how you bond with your new pup? I would hate to have her arrive and it not work and have to "return" the pup for another.

Brandon


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## onyx'girl

If the breeder is recommended by people who are knowledgable(not just saying I love the looks of those dogs) then choosing to ship should be an option. Most good breeders will give you a list of references as well to check out.
And most good breeders will pick the pup for you when you tell them what you want/will be doing with your pup, etc. as they do know the pups, vs a person coming in just to play and pick out what they think will be the right match.


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## Zoeys mom

I wasn't impressed with Keystone kennels either- sorry. No mention of hip certifications, not much info on past breedings, and no info on the parents lineage other than they come from good lines? What are good lines to them and do they do genetic testing? I would look into shipping as an option when looking for a good kennel- your making a steep long investment don't let geography get in the way of a life long decision


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## ChristenHolden

Hi and welcome fellow Okie. Have you looked at Prestige K9 - Oklahoma Breeder of German Shepherds - Home I plan on my next GSD comming from them. I have looked at a few other kennels around here. I think the one you posted is closer to me. But Prestige has more what I am looking for. I've even been in contact with them anbd She was very nice and knolagable. . Good luck.


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## bigboned3

ChristenHolden said:


> Hi and welcome fellow Okie. Have you looked at Prestige K9 - Oklahoma Breeder of German Shepherds - Home I plan on my next GSD comming from them. I have looked at a few other kennels around here. I think the one you posted is closer to me. But Prestige has more what I am looking for. I've even been in contact with them anbd She was very nice and knolagable. . Good luck.


They do not currently have any puppies or any adult dogs, either. Hopefully they will soon so we can have some prospects  

And wow, you have a lot of pets! Haha that is very cute. Where is Oklahoma do you live, if you do not mind my asking? (PM me if needed). I live in Oklahoma City. 

Brandon


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## GSDSunshine

Well looking at the first kennel, vom haus Merkel, my Jaw dropped when I saw their pricing.... first of all if they are such great breeder and make great selections when choosing pairings there shouldn't be a huge variation in the puppies, they should all have 4 legs, 2 ears, and a mouth. All should have pretty stable temperaments, and the same chance of being healthy, and equally cute. 

No way am I paying 8000 dollars to get the pup I want. Not when it is so similar to his 2000 sister. Ludacris I tell you.

You should read some of the articles people have posted here petaining to finding a good breeder. I think something for you to consider is perhaps you should expand you search outside of OK. I know of many Great breeders with great dogs that sell their puppies for 2 grand or less, no matter how "choice" they might be. 

You can use the money you are saving by not buying an inflated puppy, and use it to buy more food, more toys, set aside some for a medical emergency.... training, vet bills, anything really.

There is no reason to buy an 8000 dollar puppy, when you can get the same thing, or better, for less.


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## bigboned3

GSDSunshine said:


> Well looking at the first kennel, vom haus Merkel, my Jaw dropped when I saw their pricing.... first of all if they are such great breeder and make great selections when choosing pairings there shouldn't be a huge variation in the puppies, they should all have 4 legs, 2 ears, and a mouth. All should have pretty stable temperaments, and the same chance of being healthy, and equally cute.
> 
> No way am I paying 8000 dollars to get the pup I want. Not when it is so similar to his 2000 sister. Ludacris I tell you.
> 
> You should read some of the articles people have posted here petaining to finding a good breeder. I think something for you to consider is perhaps you should expand you search outside of OK. I know of many Great breeders with great dogs that sell their puppies for 2 grand or less, no matter how "choice" they might be.
> 
> You can use the money you are saving by not buying an inflated puppy, and use it to buy more food, more toys, set aside some for a medical emergency.... training, vet bills, anything really.
> 
> There is no reason to buy an 8000 dollar puppy, when you can get the same thing, or better, for less.



That is a good point. Can you (or/and everyone else for that matter) write their "recommended kennel" here that has decent pricing? I am looking for a black/tan or red/tan color and I would like the pup to have ball drive, solid temperment, large boned (I am not a huge fan of the American GSD). I know a lot of this sounds very petty, but hey, the dogs are not free, so I feel like I have a choice in the matter 

Brandon


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## Liesje

Make sure you do your research regarding "Heidelburg". I know nothing about the Keystone breeder but found their website odd, especially the page about American vs. German which is full of baloney but admittedly "anecdotal". Also, "If you are interested in showing shepherds and want to win then purchase a Heidelberg. However, if you are more interested in being liked by everyone then buy one of our competitor's dogs." Um...ok...so there's nothing more to owning a GSD than either winning shows or being liked by other people....?

If you are OK with paying more for quality then I would look beyond your current radius...


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## GSDSunshine

There is a Kennel that has working line (east german, and czech) German Shepherds. They are close enough that you can visit them and get a good feel for their dogs. 

Rittermark german shepherd puppies oklahoma city Prices aren't listed, But I'm guessing for a good working line GSD I would expect 1500 or so.


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## GSDSunshine

Well, as far as the black and red.... not so much my thing. There is a member on the forum here from Kentucky that breeds and I am in Love with her dogs. Home - Kleinen Hain German Shepherds

She breeds sable dogs however. 


Aslo as a side note concerning the first breeder link I posted: I don't know anything and don't exactly reccommend them, just giving you another option to look at.


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## Cassidy's Mom

bigboned3 said:


> The second breeder, I am sure most of you are familiar with is vom Haus Merkel. Yes they are way over-priced, but I'd rather pay more than get a GSD that has not been taken care of well or has temperment issues just to save a few bucks.


There is someone near me who has a co-worker who got a puppy from them and had to send it back. Their kids were heartbroken. 

I wouldn't recommend them. IMO their pricing structure is ridiculous, and you're not just paying a few bucks more, you could end up paying two or three or four times as much as you would from many other breeders with similar lines. While there is a difference between a BYB puppy for $500 and a puppy from a reputable breeder for $1500 to $2000, there's just no reason to pay as much as $8000. You're really not getting anything extra for that. :shrug:


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## GSDSunshine

Here is one more kennel I found that looks promising and there are some black and tans there as well. 

Austerlitz German Shepherd Dogs


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## bigboned3

Well I just spoke with Yuliya from von Lotta. She has sent me emails of available pups and the prices are great! I suppose I am saying great after seeing such insane prices like 6,000. She is pricing her pups at 2,000 and they are absolutely adorable! Oddly enough, I really think I would like to go with hers. I know that seems pretty quick, but with such a great reputation and such great pups with a great price.....I don't think I am going to be able to beat that. What do you all think? I can't say I have heard one "negative" about von Lotta so that would leave me to ask, is there anything else I should ask? Their website seems to line it all out right there and seems pretty good.


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## bigboned3

Cassidy's Mom said:


> There is someone near me who has a co-worker who got a puppy from them and had to send it back. Their kids were heartbroken.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend them. IMO their pricing structure is ridiculous, and you're not just paying a few bucks more, you could end up paying two or three or four times as much as you would from many other breeders with similar lines. While there is a difference between a BYB puppy for $500 and a puppy from a reputable breeder for $1500 to $2000, there's just no reason to pay as much as $8000. You're really not getting anything extra for that. :shrug:


Aww that is sad. I am like a little kid sometimes when it comes to getting attached to German Shephards (or really any animal I like ha). I have always loved GSDs though. They are amazing animals.


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## Gusto's Mommy

BlackthornGSD said:


> Typical, normal, prices for a good pet puppy with a hip guarantee from imported _*working *_lines from titled parents who also have hip certifications would be around $1200-$2500. Typical, normal prices for a good (healthy) pet puppy from imported show/conformation lines would be $1500-$3000. This would be from very good bloodlines and from reputable, respected breeders who health test, who socialize their puppies, and who to carefully place their puppies in good homes that match well.
> 
> 
> GerdesHaus German Shepherds - Texas - Breed, Import German Shepherd, GerdesHaus German Shepherds, Texas is a well-respected breeder in N.Texas...Mckinney if you are familiar with the area. We did not get our pup from them but I have heard great things about them. They seem to have what you are looking for and their prices are close to what is listed above. I was going to get ours from this breeder after a ton of research but ours kind of fell into our lap by chance.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Von Lotta has been mentioned here on the board before and if I remember correctly, people had good things to say about them.


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## bigboned3

Gusto's Mommy said:


> BlackthornGSD said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical, normal, prices for a good pet puppy with a hip guarantee from imported _*working *_lines from titled parents who also have hip certifications would be around $1200-$2500. Typical, normal prices for a good (healthy) pet puppy from imported show/conformation lines would be $1500-$3000. This would be from very good bloodlines and from reputable, respected breeders who health test, who socialize their puppies, and who to carefully place their puppies in good homes that match well.
> 
> 
> GerdesHaus German Shepherds - Texas - Breed, Import German Shepherd, GerdesHaus German Shepherds, Texas is a well-respected breeder in N.Texas...Mckinney if you are familiar with the area. We did not get our pup from them but I have heard great things about them. They seem to have what you are looking for and their prices are close to what is listed above. I was going to get ours from this breeder after a ton of research but ours kind of fell into our lap by chance.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't seem to get their site to work when I click on "available GSDs" or "litters". It seems like it just reloads the page or something. Anyone else having this issue?
Click to expand...


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## Zoeys mom

I like the L litter on their site if we're looking at the same one- their in Georgia. $2,000 is on the high end for sure unless that includes shipping. I know the phenotype of dog your looking for and you say you want good temperament, but what is good to you. How much exercise can you provide daily, what kind of training are you looking into, and what are your goals for this pup. For instance I chose my GSD because she was crazy drivey outside, but a total lush inside, calm with the kids, and had an easy to find off switch. I wanted a dog who could handle my families love of the outdoors, hiking, climbing, swimming, and ball all day; but could come in and lounge too. I knew I didn't have the time for schutz. but like the look of working line dogs so I needed a dog with good drive, but not over the top who wouldn't become depressed without major mental stimulation. We do OB with her twice a week and train 20 min. a day on OB. Other than that she gets two long off leash walks a day for at least 30 min. a walk, and two walks on leash for another 30 or so per walk. Without this amount of exercise she gets whiney, starts to pace, and finds trouble,lol Can you devote this minimal amount of exercise and be happy doing it? Thats gonna be your life with a working line dog so familiarize yourself with different lines and match your lifestyle accordingly. I like the kennel you mentioned at first glance, but make sure you know what you want in a dog first before choosing a kennel


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## ChristenHolden

I'm about a Hour south of Muskogee. Yes I have a lot o pets. But the hard work is well worth it. Lol. There is a kennel near Mcalaster OK. Let me find the link. I liked there dogs too.


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## Gusto's Mommy

I am not having a problem. Maybe exit and try it again.


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## bigboned3

Zoeys mom said:


> I like the L litter on their site if we're looking at the same one- their in Georgia. $2,000 is on the high end for sure unless that includes shipping. I know the phenotype of dog your looking for and you say you want good temperament, but what is good to you. How much exercise can you provide daily, what kind of training are you looking into, and what are your goals for this pup. For instance I chose my GSD because she was crazy drivey outside, but a total lush inside, calm with the kids, and had an easy to find off switch. I wanted a dog who could handle my families love of the outdoors, hiking, climbing, swimming, and ball all day; but could come in and lounge too. I knew I didn't have the time for schutz. but like the look of working line dogs so I needed a dog with good drive, but not over the top who wouldn't become depressed without major mental stimulation. We do OB with her twice a week and train 20 min. a day on OB. Other than that she gets two long off leash walks a day for at least 30 min. a walk, and two walks on leash for another 30 or so per walk. Without this amount of exercise she gets whiney, starts to pace, and finds trouble,lol Can you devote this minimal amount of exercise and be happy doing it? Thats gonna be your life with a working line dog so familiarize yourself with different lines and match your lifestyle accordingly. I like the kennel you mentioned at first glance, but make sure you know what you want in a dog first before choosing a kennel


My last GSD "Sido" was a working line dog. I know how they are, if you know what I mean. They can be a pain if you do not excercise them enough. That's no problem at all, and I am looking for about what you are. A dog that can engage in plenty of outdoor stuff, but likes to curl up on the couch on a stormy night, too. 

Now when you say 2,000 is on the high end, do you mean for von Lotta's dogs specifically, or for the GSD breed in general? I thought it was rather reasonable considering the sire is Sch3.


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## bigboned3

ChristenHolden said:


> I'm about a Hour south of Muskogee. Yes I have a lot o pets. But the hard work is well worth it. Lol. There is a kennel near Mcalaster OK. Let me find the link. I liked there dogs too.


If you're talking about Brush Creek Kennels, I know Tracy pretty well. She is a great girl. I got my first GSD from her. She also has one in Stillwater, too


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## bigboned3

Gusto's Mommy said:


> I am not having a problem. Maybe exit and try it again.


I think they are using some scripting language my browser ("Safari") since I have a MacBook, doesn't like too well. I will get on my PC and try that.


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## Zoeys mom

I think it's on the high end for a german shepherd personally. Your average working line dog usually runs from $1,200-$1,800- so to me anything above is slightly high unless shipping is included. Zoe's grandparents on both sides were Sch3, but because her breeders did not title either of their dogs (her parents) they only charged $800 to be fair though they had hips OFA'd and genetic testing done. I see dogs priced at $1,200 all the time with Sch 3 parents so all I'm saying is you can get a great dog for $1,500 or less. Look at Wildhaus kennels. Chris is a member here and has beautiful dogs I would be proud to own


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## ChristenHolden

Here it is. I'm more of a Solid Black, or Sable Person. I'm hopeing my futcher at lest a year and a half away will be a larger end solid built well nerved Black with MED or Low Med drive. Quality German Shepherds


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## ChristenHolden

And there's this one vom Haus Berg German Shepherds - Stillwater, OK. I dunno if its been posted yet. And I'm not sure how good they are. A am by far no expert on the breed yet. :blush:


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## Emoore

Gusto's Mommy said:


> GerdesHaus German Shepherds - Texas - Breed, Import German Shepherd, GerdesHaus German Shepherds, Texas is a well-respected breeder in N.Texas...Mckinney if you are familiar with the area. We did not get our pup from them but I have heard great things about them. They seem to have what you are looking for and their prices are close to what is listed above. I was going to get ours from this breeder after a ton of research but ours kind of fell into our lap by chance.


Gerdeshaus is a good breeder, but they produce working lines and I believe the OP is interested in show lines.


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## Klamari

This is a breeder I found in OK and was considering. Smaller breeder, working lines (sables, so probably not what youre looking for). Don't know them personally, haven't ever talked to them, but they are beautiful dogs and all do SAR work. I think $1200. 

http://www.voneintzeshepherds.com/801.html


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## LARHAGE

bigboned3 said:


> Thanks for the fast replies! I agree that Keystone looks a little odd in the fact it mentions more about Heidelburg than their own business and what they offer, how the pups are raised, etc etc. I am wanting to go with vom Haus Merkel, but I am just having a really hard time with spending 4-6 thousand. My last german shepherd, you couldnt put a price on her. She was the love of my life! So maybe that is the mentality that I need to go in with this. I will continue searching, but also if anyone else knows of any breeders in any bordering states of Oklahoma that would be great.
> 
> Also, what is everyones opinion on the wonderful, reputable breeders like Alta-Tollhaus where you can get your pup shipped to you so distance isnt an issue, but you cant actually play with, interact, and see how you bond with your new pup? I would hate to have her arrive and it not work and have to "return" the pup for another.
> 
> Brandon


 
I bought my dog Gavin from Alta-Tollhaus without ever laying a hand on him, I told Julie what I was looking for, and fell in love with the pictures of my puppy from the site, to say he has been EVERYTHING I ever wanted, would be the understatement of the decade for me. I still pinch myself everyday that this dog shares my life!


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## Liesje

^ And even when you CAN spend time with them (as I often have), you still cannot replicate the bond and the knowledge of the breeder. Spending a few hours here or there still doesn't compare to the breeder's knowledge of the parents, the lines, and spending 24/7 for 8 weeks with the puppies.


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## GSDElsa

So why not get a dog from a breeder far away you're more comfortable with and FLY out to see the puppy? There is no way you're going to spend as much on a flight as it costs to buy a 4-6K puppy!

Think of it this way ...$1500-2500 for a puppy from someone else....$1000 tops on a roundtrip flight for you and your wife still equals less than 4000 to 6000 dollars!!!!

OMGGGGGGGGGGGG. That's all I have to say about those price.


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## GSDAlphaMom

I wouldl not go with Merkel. I am very familiar with Merkel, Noble, & Fleischerheim. They are all in cahoots with each other. Basically a puppy mill with a paint job (nice website). 

I can tell you from experience there are temprament issues as that is not important to them...it's all about the money. I will be happy to give you full details and what I know but will need to do so via PM as I don't think I can put it here.


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## GSDAlphaMom

Sent you PM


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## Jessiewessie99

I agree Alt-Tollhaus is a great recommendation, Julie is a very nice lady and has beautiful dogs also. I wouldn't hesitate to get a dog from her.


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## Dyan

Just wanted to say that 'Haus Merkel' is not affiliated with 'Nobleheim' or 'Fleischerheim' or any other German Shepherd Breeders/Kennels. 

Haus Merkel sells veterinarian checked puppies available for sale at $1500 and $2000. No one is forced to pay $6000. Puppies are all normal coats and males all have their testicles. Where all this other misinformation comes from is beyond me.


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## Santino004

You can also check out Red Rock K9 at Red Rock K9 They are a German Shepherd Breeder in Oklahoma that import Czech and German working lines. They train and socialize all of their puppies and are very select in the homes they go to. I would recommend visiting several breeders to get a comfort level before buying. Good luck


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## mnm

This thread is 2-3 years old....


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