# Size versus Longevity



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Often I see posts about the size of a dog and owners that hope their dog will grow up to be a huge dog. I feel bad when I see such posts as I'm reminded that the larger the dog the shorter the expected lifespan is. My youngest is HUGE. I never wanted huge, I never fed puppy food or looked for oversized parents, but you get what you get in this world. Eli weighs in at 140lbs and he is pure German Shepherd Dog. I realize that with his size not only will there be likely more health problems, but his life span will likely be so much shorter than that of my other two. So my question for you is as follows (see poll)


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I wouldn't care if my GSD had 2 heads if it increased his chances of living a long and healthy life.

Unless, of course I had to feed both heads.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Ok, my poll is on top of my post but thats ok, I'm sure everyone will get it . I'm with you Lilie.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shilohsmom said:


> Eli weighs in at 140lbs and he is pure German Shepherd Dog.


Likely he is overweight as well as being just plain BIG.



> Would you rather have a standard sized GSD that weighed between 75-85 lbs that lived 11-12 years?
> 
> or
> 
> Would you rather have a supersized GSD that weighed 125-140 but only lived 8 years?


I don't know why anyone would want a 140 lb GSD that only lived 8 years. That is about twice the standard in terms of size. Where did you get your dog?

I have an Akbash dog that is a lean 130 lb., but they don't make Livestock Guardian Dogs much smaller than that, and it's what I needed to guard my poultry and goats. If there was a smaller size LGD, I'd have gotten one. He's six years old and going strong, but I am not sure how long he will live.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Freestep said:


> Likely he is overweight as well as being just plain BIG.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I got my dog from a good breeder that I happen to get my other two from and he is not overweight. I know all about the standards I'm talking oversized dogs that are huge. Not fat, huge.


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## jdh520 (Jun 4, 2011)

Mine is about 125 too and not overweight. I have plenty of pictures up to see and I got him from Rolling H Farms. I've always heard the white shepherds are bigger though.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shilohsmom said:


> I got my dog from a good breeder that I happen to get my other two from and he is not overweight. I know all about the standards I'm talking oversized dogs that are huge. Not fat, huge.


Can we see a picture of your boy? And has your breeder produced huge dogs before? I know there is a line called "King Shepherds" that are supposed to be huge.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

My youngest is pictured by my name with my other two, he's the black one. Unfortunately, its really hard to tell size by a picture. I'm familiar with King Shepherds as well as Shiloh Shepherds, but I have his pedigree and its German/Czechoslovakian. Again, I know my breeder, I know what she produces.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

shilohsmom said:


> I got my dog from a good breeder that I happen to get my other two from and he is not overweight. I know all about the standards I'm talking oversized dogs that are huge. Not fat, huge.


 
If they are breeding 140lb GSD's, they don't sound like a "good breeder" to me! Unless yours was a complete aberation in their lines (unlikely but possible, I suppose).


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Only one of my dogs was "HUGE", that would have been Kodi he was 32" at the shoulders and weighed in at 125lbs and was not fat,,I kept him lean..a "mutant" we called him.. He lived until 9 , developed spondylosis and passed away from the fusing that cracked

All my other gsd's have lived to ripe old ages of 13-14 years old..


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shilohsmom said:


> Again, I know my breeder, I know what she produces.


So... does that mean your breeder *doesn't* usually produce huge dogs, or that she *does* produce other huge dogs? I'm just curious. Could be there are huge size genetics somewhere way back in the pedigree, or it could be some kind of mutation?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Who would ever willingly choose option 2?!?! That does not even describe a GSD.

My gsds are 70lbs (almost 3 year old male, intact), 60lbs (10 month old male, intact), and 52lbs (7 year old female, spayed at age 3).


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Only one of my dogs was "HUGE", that would have been Kodi he was 32" at the shoulders and weighed in at 125lbs and was not fat,,I kept him lean..a "mutant" we called him..


Ah, so it could be a mutation?

I know there are people who breed GSDs for ginormous size, so it must be back in the gene pool somewhere, unless there was a secret outcross at some point.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I know one breeder of oversized GSDs (I think their dogs are like 90-120, not usually 125-140) who has/had several dogs in the GSD "13 club". I know it is generally true that larger breeds=shorter lifespan but I don't think a larger size always necessarily equals a shorter lifespan_ within_ a breed.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Free, who knows, it was a first time stud dog, both parents were within standard, the breeder was mortified Kodi's litter brother, was also big, but he was shorter and a fat dog , owners seemed to like 'fat'.. I researched his lines way back, and apparently some of the dogs way back were used in the shiloh foundation stock..Most dogs within the first 4 - 5 generations were all within standard as well..

Kodi had a nose you could land a lear jet on and his feet were bigger than my hands..He wasn't a real ambitious dog, and most times dumb as a rock He was a permanent fixture on my couch but somebody had to love him


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I voted 2, but I would rather prefer a 200 lbs GSD that lived 5 years, though the option was not available.

This is like those pre-electoral polls. Would you prefer to vote for Mr. Z or be eaten by zombies? Hey, everybody wants Mr. Z to be President!!

My boy may end up oversized too, from two within standard parents, yet I don't choose my dogs for short lifespans.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

Of course I want my dog to live the longest life possible but size isnt' what determines how I pick my dog, temperament is how I would pick my dog, and I would rather have a good dog with a shorter life span then a dog with a bad temperment that lived 14 years and you couldn't do anything with because of a it's temperment. 
Frank's 29 in and a lean 86 pounds I know he has several dogs in his background that have lived >12 years, and they're larger GSD's


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Freestep said:


> So... does that mean your breeder *doesn't* usually produce huge dogs, or that she *does* produce other huge dogs? I'm just curious. Could be there are huge size genetics somewhere way back in the pedigree, or it could be some kind of mutation?


Lastly, my breeder does *not* usually produce huge does. I am familar with both parents, in fact Shoshona has the same mother as Eli. And one of my Doctors have the son of Eli's father, none of which are oversized. As far as I'm aware there have been no other such 'flukes' in any of Anne's dogs. 

I'm not here to defend my breeder, which I will. I'm not here to defend Eli from being called 'fat', but I will. The purpose of this poll was to try to get people to think about what they are hoping for. People post about how *big* their puppy and how they hope he/she gets so big. The truth is they should be hoping for good health and not for having the biggest GSD in the area. Size usually affects the longevity of a dog.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Chicagocanine said:


> I know one breeder of oversized GSDs (I think their dogs are like 90-120, not usually 125-140) who has/had several dogs in the GSD "13 club". I know it is generally true that larger breeds=shorter lifespan but I don't think a larger size always necessarily equals a shorter lifespan_ within_ a breed.


I will only hope that Eli grows to be a good old age.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Unless, of course I had to feed both heads.


:rofl:


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Many Shiloh Shepherds who range between 90-125 pounds on average, live long lives. Their average life expectancy is 12 yrs so I don't think it has to be one or the other.


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## bruiser (Feb 14, 2011)

I guess I would rather have a standard size, but 'bruiser is going to be really big. At 7 mos. he weighs a lean 82 pounds and it appears he still growing a lot. The best thing is he has an excellent and loving temperament so far except with other dogs...we're working that!


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

My 1st GSD, Cheyenne was from a byb and he was 125, not fat. Now I have 2 Shilohs, almost 9 yr old male 115lbs and a 7 yr old female at 115lbs. Shes overweight from meds he is not fat at all.
I love my little white muchkin at 70lbs. Bigger dogs mean more $ for everything and since I've been on a roll this year with the vet issues I voted for standard size.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

My Sinister is 28' at the shoulder and he weighs 80 pounds. He is very tall, very long and nice and lean.

I want him to live forever but I know that wont happen, so I want him to live as long as he can while still being happy and healthy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Freestep said:


> I know there is a line called "King Shepherds" that are supposed to be huge.


King Shepherds are not purebred GSDs so are not a "line" in this breed.

King Shepherd Information and Pictures, King Shepherds



> *American dog breeders Shelley Watts-Cross and David Turkheimer developed this large breed from American and European German Shepherd Dogs, Alaskan Malamutes, and Great Pyrenees. An official breed club was established in 1995.*


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

My recently passed GSD was 100lbs about and I loved him more than any other dog, but when I decided to get another GSD I didn't go looking for another 100+ lb monster, I got what I thought would be a standard sized pup because I wanted him to have the best possible health outlook and life expectancy. Now my pup is 27.5in tall and 73lbs and still filling out a bit. Hes looking like he will be a bigger boy as well and I love him all the same.

When looking for a dog I will always look to purchase a pup that conforms to the breed standards because I don't want to promote people breeding nonstandard, but if that pup ends up being nonstandard I will love him the same. There are always standard dogs that will live to 8 and above standard dogs that will live to 12, nothing is guaranteed but I just feel that people should at least attempt to breed within the standard.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

shilohsmom said:


> Size usually affects the longevity of a dog.


I know that is true between breeds. I'd like a study to show if it is true within a breed before assuming it works the same way.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> King Shepherds are not purebred GSDs so are not a "line" in this breed.


Ah, I didn't know that, I just assumed they were a line of huge GSDs. I haven't studied the GSD hybrid breeds very much, though I do understand that Shiloh Shepherds were crossbred as well.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shilohsmom said:


> I'm not here to defend my breeder, which I will. I'm not here to defend Eli from being called 'fat', but I will.


No need to be defensive, I'm not attacking your dog or your breeder, I'm just curious what makes oversize GSDs pop up. I'm a dog groomer, and I hear people bragging about their dogs' huge size all the time. About 75% of the time, their dog is overweight and they don't realize it. Not saying it's true in your case, I just see it a lot.

The funny thing is, women usually underestimate their dog's weight, and men usually overestimate it. I used to groom huge dogs, but due to doctor's orders I now have a limit of 75 pounds (which means I can't even groom my own Akbash dog). Whenever women estimate their dog's weight over the phone, I have to mentally add about 10-15 pounds to it.  I once had a woman describe her dogs as "medium size" over the phone, and then brought me two Akita/Rottweiler crosses that were about 85-90 pounds each! Come to find out their last dogs were English Mastiffs, so I guess next to them, 85-90 pounds seems like "medium size."


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Freestep said:


> No need to be defensive, I'm not attacking your dog or your breeder, I'm just curious what makes oversize GSDs pop up. I'm a dog groomer, and I hear people bragging about their dogs' huge size all the time. About 75% of the time, their dog is overweight and they don't realize it. Not saying it's true in your case, I just see it a lot.
> 
> The funny thing is, women usually underestimate their dog's weight, and men usually overestimate it. I used to groom huge dogs, but due to doctor's orders I now have a limit of 75 pounds (which means I can't even groom my own Akbash dog). Whenever women estimate their dog's weight over the phone, I have to mentally add about 10-15 pounds to it.  I once had a woman describe her dogs as "medium size" over the phone, and then brought me two Akita/Rottweiler crosses that were about 85-90 pounds each! Come to find out their last dogs were English Mastiffs, so I guess next to them, 85-90 pounds seems like "medium size."


My mistake then. I guess I'm just real sensitive when it comes to my pups. Another pet peeve of mine is people that allow their dogs/pets to become overweight....its just so unfair to the animal. Eli is clearly a fluke, but I love him just the same. Hopefully as some of the posts imply, perhaps he won't have such a shorter life because of his size.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shilohsmom said:


> Hopefully as some of the posts imply, perhaps he won't have such a shorter life because of his size.


Hopefully, if you keep him lean and healthy, he won't have too many of the troubles that tend to plague giant dogs.

Curious, was he big when he was a puppy, or was he normal size at birth and just kept growing?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think genetics and overall health throughout their lives makes as much of a difference as their size does. My collie was 85 lbs, 14 1/2 years old when we let him go. All his organs were in perfect condition but his hips went on him and he was in so much pain. If that hadn't happened, he could have easily lived many more years.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Freestep said:


> Hopefully, if you keep him lean and healthy, he won't have too many of the troubles that tend to plague giant dogs.
> 
> Curious, was he big when he was a puppy, or was he normal size at birth and just kept growing?


I'll admit he was a large puppy. In fact, I was a bit surprized when I pulled him out of the crate at the airport-it seemed he just kept coming and coming and there was no end on that pup .


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

This poll reminds me of when we fly our RC jets. Inevitably someone in the crowd says "I hope one crashes". No you don't, it cost $10K to $20K and really really hurts when you have spent all the money, time to build, etc. That's not cool. 

If you want huge, choose a mastiff and know it is a short-timer in your life. I will prefer a mentally and physically sound dog above all. I also see large dogs and feel bad knowing the little ones are practically immortal and the big ones we have to send across all too soon. I have chosen a small one for just that purpose having recently loss my large Aussie to cancer what I thought to be 3 to 4 years too soon.

I see your point, to get people thinking about the whole picture. This question is not about anyone's particular dog and it's size. It's kind of rhetorical. What ARE you breeding for? What ARE you asking a breeder for. What DO you really want and why?


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Mom2Shaman said:


> This poll reminds me of when we fly our RC jets. Inevitably someone in the crowd says "I hope one crashes". No you don't, it cost $10K to $20K and really really hurts when you have spent all the money, time to build, etc. That's not cool.
> 
> If you want huge, choose a mastiff and know it is a short-timer in your life. I will prefer a mentally and physically sound dog above all. I also see large dogs and feel bad knowing the little ones are practically immortal and the big ones we have to send across all too soon. I have chosen a small one for just that purpose having recently loss my large Aussie to cancer what I thought to be 3 to 4 years too soon.
> 
> I see your point, to get people thinking about the whole picture. This question is not about anyone's particular dog and it's size. It's kind of rhetorical. What ARE you breeding for? What ARE you asking a breeder for. What DO you really want and why?


 
Thank you. Thats exactly what I'm hoping people will think about.


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## wildwolf60 (Apr 13, 2001)

*I don't pick for the size..*

We have had many GSD's, most of which we had purchased as pups, and weren't picking for size, but for health and temperament. The last 3 were adopted, and again, picked for the same reasons. The largest of our pups we had previously owned was about 85lbs at his prime. Of course, our latest adoption, Jaeger, is huge..very tall, lean and long. He towers over our Luna... About 100 lbs so far, he just turned 2 in Jan. We love him dearly! I'm just hoping that he lives a long and healthy life with us!
Don't know where he was bred, but he is a fullblooded GSD, and hopefully his size will not stop him from having a long happy life!

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

I do prefer a larger size dog, but within reason! I really do not want a dog over 100#, but really like the size of my two. Sasha is right around 80, Dasher, 88-91. Perfect in my opinion. They are both active, seem to be sound physically and have the look I like. Not sure how long they will live, both are around 4 now. 

My SIL had a Newfie and a great Dane (not at once) and both died WAY too young! The Dane came from a supposedly good breeder, and was to be show dog, but for some reason was not competitive and so they rehomed for no money. GORGEOUS dog!In his prime he weighed in around 170! At 4 he was already looking like an older dog. She put him down about 4 months ago due to bone cancer. He was only 6. Very sad. 

The Newfoundland she bought as apuppy, not sure about breeder, but he had many health issues in his short life. She came home from work for lunch as usual on day and he was gone. Vet thought his heart gave out. he was not even 5 at the time.

So, I really have no desire for a dog of extreme size. If I had a 100 # dog that had a good healthy 9 years or so, that would be okay I guess, but to have an elderly dog at age 5 is so sad! On the other hand, my MIL has a mini dachshund that is 14 and shows no signs of aging at all. Not a dog I would want to have around for 17 years.....


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