# collie IPO



## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

I would have never thought this is possible.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You can teach a dog to do things. There's no surprise there. I don't know if I can type this fast enough to beat the whole "This proves IPO is a joke" nonsense that floods in with these videos, but in real simple terms, they don't do it for the same reasons or with the same level of power, aggression, -insert whatever other terms you'd like here-. Even in the same breed, you'll see the differences in the individual dogs.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

so you are not even remotely shocked that a collie was at a IPO event and did good?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I think it is an English Shepherd. These are good working farm dogs that will take matters in their own hands if need be. Totally different from the Rough Collie.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Many people have titled their Border Collie in IPO.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I mean, have you seen the Poodle and Chihuahua that do IPO?


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

i do not consider BH to be IPO, the poodle one i actually believe i have seen some mean poodles.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

hoytn said:


> i do not consider BH to be IPO, the poodle one i actually believe i have seen some mean poodles.


I find that interesting considering that you can't title in IPO without a BH.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Ok, let me further explain. I am saying BH doesn't have protection in it, it is like a super version of obedience so for a chihuahua to do it isnt really crazy. Do not get me wrong I am glad to see a well behaved chihuahua that isnt barking at the wind.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You know, I never thought of it that way hoytn. but now that you mention it, there's no protection in tracking either so I guess we can cast that aside too.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Lots of behavior I don't like in this video. The dog did the routine. Some might like what they see, I wouldn't. That is why you need to either trust the breeder to choose wisely, or see a dog work before breeding to him or before purchasing a puppy out of him. If you really want a dog for protection work, chose carefully. I would never chose this dog or breed to him even if he was brown and black with pointy ears. Technically, a good routine. That is all.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Dog done a nice job. As Steve said, the dog doesn't have the aggression or presence of a strong dog. But it was a nice routine. I have seen quite a few Shepherds that do protection work with the same game of tug mind set. I have also seen quite a few Shepherds that garner respect. They may not have flashy obedience but the power and aggression is obvious. Gonna have both kinds of dogs in sport. A lot of handlers don't want and probably shouldn't have a powerful high aggression dog. To each their own. My opinion is that at least they're working the dog in something.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

I should look up to see if there are heelers doing IPO. I could see them being serious and less about playing.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

hoytn said:


> I would have never thought this is possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3yXHRQ5OhE


I've seen GSD's do worse. I did notice that the collie in the video worked like a collie. There was a visible sense that the decoy was treated like stock. Be the sheep, lol. 
But what I noticed more was the decoys noticeable distaste of the dog. There were moments when you could see the look of irritation on his face. In spite of the dog doing nothing wrong.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

has to say something that they are in a World Championship. I wonder how many GSD did not make the cut but a collie did.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Kazel said:


> I should look up to see if there are heelers doing IPO. I could see them being serious and less about playing.




We had a heeler in our club. They titled BH easily, but the owner was a perfectionist so never went for the 1 because he felt they needed to be at a 3 level before trying. Dog definitely could’ve titled.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Anyone who is surpirised that a BC could do that run, needs to spend more time around purpose-bred BCs.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I know some Aussies I bet could turn it on out there


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## Suzy25 (Mar 3, 2016)

I love seeing dogs title that aren't the typical GSD, mal, or dutchie, very refreshing. they might not have the same intensity or presence on the field as the others but its great to see them out and doing sports and doing well.

I know a trainer that has taken a boston terrier to IPO 1, as well as giant schnauzers, heelers and poodles. really cool to see breed variation within the sport


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

IPO has been losing participants over the years. One can't be too snotty about these things like the aristocrats of France before they lost their heads in the French Revolution. It's good to see people having fun, working at it, training and bonding with their dogs whatever the breed.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> I think it is an English Shepherd. These are good working farm dogs that will take matters in their own hands if need be. Totally different from the Rough Collie.


I too think that this is an english shepherd aka american farm dog.

I had a very tough , bold, drivey male , which I got from a breeder with a large sheep herd and the dogs were used to work - not recreation -- real day to day dirty , all weather work , filled with challenges every day . 
Friend who was a contributor to the human and canine genomic studies found several points in common. On the graph showing the different breeds the english and the german shepherd are grouped in the molossers while the border collie and the malinois have more wolf genes.

the one I had could have been represented as an Altdeutscher hutehunde - Gelbbacke which is a land race hard core herding dog from the middle - east german region -- Wurttemberger.

the one I had was a "header" .
there are quite a few working beef farms in Texas relying on english shepherd "heeaders"
and may have a heeler to complete the job.

one thing that was impressive was the dogs super fast reflexes. 

as in all breeds there are splits . You have your pet bred , attractive , bred for the popular "lassie" dog colours Irish White -- drive gone bye bye .


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

I had read someone tried to get there golden retriever into IPO but they didn't have the possession aggression they didn't grab onto the sleeve and hold.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

hoytn said:


> so you are not even remotely shocked that a collie was at a IPO event and did good?


No, because you can train dogs. 2 dogs doing the same routine or exercise can look very similar, but the details of why will be polar opposites. That collie or whatever it is, isn't biting or barking for the same reasons as a German Shepherd. 2 German Shepherds may even do it for different reasons or motivations. It all gets more clear if you have the chance to get out and see different dogs training. Try and go someplace where they're ok with you coming out on the field and watching up close. See what the helper says about things.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

many GSD should be doing it because there is active aggression , protection drive , but unfortuanately this is not the case as they too are doing the bite work and protection phase out of prey drive , trained or otherwise.

the subject of the thread , isn't a collie -- if you call an english shepherd / american farm dog a collie the owners and breeders will get their feathers ruffled. 

collie is a category of dog use like gun dog, or retriever , or bird dog , or trailing dog .

every year we see the BS zucht show videos and see the limits of training.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

No, the dog in the video is a border collie. That particular breeder has a lot of tricolors, but they're border collies.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

https://en.working-dog.com/dogs-details/3053224/Luna-Tale-Link

Does this help you guys? I just did a quick Google search of the dog's name and came back with border collie. Easy enough to do.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

hoytn said:


> I had read someone tried to get there golden retriever into IPO but they didn't have the possession aggression they didn't grab onto the sleeve and hold.


 I talked to an older guy at our last trial who said he took his golden retriever to an IPO 3. I asked around and others said yeah he did.


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

cdwoodcox said:


> I talked to an older guy at our last trial who said he took his golden retriever to an IPO 3. I asked around and others said yeah he did.


now that is crazy goldens are know for protection in any manner.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

It does make you wonder about GSD breeders in the U.S. who don't or can't even put a BH on their dog before breeding them when some enthusiasts can take different breeds for which IPO was never designed for, as a breed test or a sport all the way to an IPO or Sch 3.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WIBackpacker said:


> Anyone who is surpirised that a BC could do that run, needs to spend more time around purpose-bred BCs.


Agree totally. BC's are tough, hard dogs. The working ones are awesome to watch, used to love going to herding trials, they are a very 'no quit' breed and the good ones have no issues with taking things to the next level. 
Capable of real defensive aggression, and highly intelligent. 
A breed that has been very hard hit by kc acceptance, fortunately they remain a favored working dog and those that do work them also work hard at protecting the working lines.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I worry that they my


Sabis mom said:


> A breed that has been very hard hit by kc acceptance, fortunately they remain a favored working dog and those that do work them also work hard at protecting the working lines.


The AKC "show quality" madBCs are starting to look like Springer Spaniels. I worry that by adding them to the shows, people start regarding them as 'pets'. I always cringe when they admit a new breed. Keeping my fingers crossed for the Chinooks for example.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

The split in border collies is an actual divide, not just something that gets talked about. 

There's ABCA, and then there is AKC. If you exhibit an ABCA dog toward AKC conformation points, ABCA revokes the registration and the offspring are also ineligible for registration. Basically if you "show" your dog, it gets thrown out of the pool and out of the stud books. Period. 

Other breeds talk about it, the working BC people actually did it.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WIBackpacker said:


> The split in border collies is an actual divide, not just something that gets talked about.
> 
> There's ABCA, and then there is AKC. If you exhibit an ABCA dog toward AKC conformation points, ABCA revokes the registration and the offspring are also ineligible for registration. Basically if you "show" your dog, it gets thrown out of the pool and out of the stud books. Period.
> 
> Other breeds talk about it, the working BC people actually did it.


Yes. And with luck they will continue to stand their ground and keep this very versatile and incredible breed doing what it was meant to do.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

WIBackpacker said:


> . Basically if you "show" your dog, it gets thrown out of the pool and out of the stud books. Period.
> 
> Other breeds talk about it, the working BC people actually did it.


Brilliant!


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## hoytn (Oct 1, 2017)

Ya BC club doesn't mess around at all, I almost got a BC and was doing some hard core research and showing is a no no, working is what they are breed to do and what they are suppose to do. I do like that rule, I did not end up getting one because the amount of energy needed is well beyond my limit right now. Also my yard is to small.


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