# Are my expectations high ?



## QDMHunter (Feb 6, 2012)

I have been watching,reading this website/board for just over 4 to 5 months now. I am in the process of finding a dog. A good GSD to be a family dog. I will not compete with it, show or breed it. Just a well behaved, smart loving dog.
I am 44 years old, my wife and I have 3 children, 2 are grown and gone and have a 14 year old daughter in the home with us. We had a GSD for 12 years from my youngest daughters birth untill we had to have her put down about 2 years ago at the vets request, it was best for her as she developed a tumor at her pancreas. That would be one of the hardest things I ever had to do and was tremendously sad for the family.
I sat in the vets office with her on the floor after we got the news for an hour or so saying my "goodbyes".
We all miss her beyond words, I have not been able to think of another dog until the last several months and we have decided the time is right for another family member.
I find myself looking at her pictures and standing there looking at her collar, draped over a small wooden box containing her ashes and feel a great loss even to this day.
I have contacted several breeders of what look to be fine dogs, sent emails to about 4 that I had narrowed down. of those only 1 in well over a month has even given me a minute of their time and I need advice.
We reside in Northern Virginia, We have a 2450 Sq Ft. single family home, we dont have a fenced yard and live in a master planned community. Not having a fence was never an issue with our previous female GSD Jesse nor the Rott. we had prior to her. I am looking for breeders in VA, MD, DE, and NC but would be willing to have a dog shipped. Jesse was protective of the home and family naturally, yet very friendly and outgoing to neighbors, kids in the neighborhood and would only react as unknown people came to the house/yard, once we eccepted them, she was fine. She was well behaved and listened well.
What I am looking for is a female.
A little larger than average with out being bred for large size.
A Czech, DDR, East German ? Black, Black mixed, Dark sable...
Drive but not over the top, we are an active family, hiking, camping and have plenty of room to play in the neighborhood and woods behind us.
A pup or older pup that has some training.
We won't be showing, competing or breeding. Just a great family addition.
We will likely continue with training with the breeder or locally ,what ever is more efficient.
We have decided to spend in the neighborhood of 3K to 3.5K more or less but what should I expect at that price or less? If you were to invest that money in a family dog, what woul you GSD owners expect ? 
Do breeders of these dogs get so many people that inquire that they just get overwhelmed by all the time people take from them that they just blow off the ones that they think are not really buyers?
I know everyone has the right to deny a sale, that goes with out saying, the same as I have the right to not buy from one or another.Am i saying something that would make someone not want to sell to me? I would defy anyone to find out anything bad about me or my family that would make one not sell to me, my emails have been somewhat like above so people will know I am not just looking but I am a buyer of the right dog to fit my family, yet want someone that will take the time to help me choose the right dog. I would expect the breeder to be trusting of me as I am of them, relying on them to make a choice from their litter that will meet the goals of our family.
I inquire via email as to not really disturb anyone when it is not a good time to discuss and always leave my phone number so they can contact me when they have the time. I have to admit, I am new to the different types of Shepherds and want the best healty dog for our money. I can't seem to get anyone that wants my money or time, a BYB will take it I know but I don't want a dog from them, I want a well balanced dog that has the health, temperment and bond that these dogs have. 
I guess if you have read through all of this, through my rambling and brief family info, you may just have the time to help me, reccomend or know of a path I can atleast check out. I plan to be a part of this board through my journey and well through my dogs life.
I'll thank you in advance for any input.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Why don't you post the e-mail you're sending the breeders so we can see if maybe there's something that's turning them off?


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

QDMHunter said:


> Do breeders of these dogs get so many people that inquire that they just get overwhelmed by all the time people take from them that they just blow off the ones that they think are not really buyers?


I don't think it is because of the time people take. For us, we are receiving a tremendous amout of inquiries at this time and I know for a fact that even my husband is having a hard time keeping up. Does not mean he is not willing to spend the time. In fact, he is very good at spending what ever time needed. Thankfully some of them have been persistant and it has paid off. 

If there is a breeder you like, don't give up, keep emailing or better yet, calling.  I'm sure you will find what you are looking for.

Don't pay 3K for a puppy though, for that kind of money you should receive a young adult with some training.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

From the sounds of it you are looking for working lines (based on the colors) and for a puppy from working lines I would expect to pay closer to 2K then 3K quite honestly. I know breeders are busy however something I want in a breeder is the relationship without having to hound them because I really don't like to be a bother. One big thing I did in my search for the perfect breeder was made my own personal requirement that the breeder be from this forum because FOR ME I felt like if they took the time to be here helping people that don't even have one of their puppies and do it for the love of the breed then I had a really good chance of them still helping me after the sale.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I guess how I would look at it is if I sent a breeder and there was no response I would move on-I think that if you are simply stating what you are looking for in a e-mail then a breeder should respond-its the polite thing to do


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

That's kind of silly. Many times my husband has gotten emails from the junk folder when he happened to look in there. So if you send an email and get no response, why not try again? Or better yet, why not call?

We have gotten 4-6 emails per day lately and my husband is pretty good at replying to them but when you receive that many in one day and are going back and forth with them, it is not uncommon to think you have replied back when in fact you haven't.

I don't think trying is hounding and if the particular breeder is bothered by you, then move on.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Well first of all I am not looking for a dog-if there was a dog I absolutely fell in love with maybe-but that hasn't happened and in my opinion if I sent an e-mail and the person didn't respond after a week or so yep I'd move on-my opinion-I have one


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Johnsonhaus has black and sable working-line dogs in MD. Just sayin. . . .


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Also just sayin...if a breeder didn't return my e-mail I'd move on-


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I'm sorry you're having a hard time getting response with the breeders you've emailed. I think it's also timing, Superbowl weekend, etc. 

I hope you get some answers soon and I also agree that paying 3-4 k for a family pet is too much. You can find great showline quality with amazing temperament of course for that price.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Many breeders list phone numbers.

A call is worth a 100 emails.


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## QDMHunter (Feb 6, 2012)

Ok, as requested, I'll post the email with slight variations to different breeders; 

Hello XXXXXX, 
My name is Ben XXXX, My family and I reside in Northern VA.
I was interested in speaking to you about your German Shepherds as we draw closer to purchasing a new dog.
We had a German Shepherd for 11 years and had to have her put down 2.5 years ago due to an illness that at the late stages of her life the vet recommended was best for her.
She was a family dog and protective of the house but very good with family, friends,our children and children in the neighborhood. She was obedient and well behaved.We miss her beyond words. Her ashes and collar sit in our living room on a shelf. 
We do not have a fenced yard and it was never a concern as she was respectful of our homes boundaries, she walked well with us on and off the leash. I am interested in a dog as such but still young enough to form a bond quickly. 
We have decided to purchase another dog to replace her now that we have gotten past her passing.
 I saw that you have pups and younger dogs as well as older pups and the Mother and Father photos/pedigrees, I am not looking for a show dog, we are looking for a little larger Female that is mostly black if not all black as our former shepherd was all black with a small white spot on her chest. I am not looking for a dog to compete or to breed, but a good intelligent dog as a family pet.
This would of course be an indoor dog for our family. 
I have spoken to several breeders across the country and have seen the wide spread costs associated with such a dog with the qualities we are looking for.
 I don't want a dog from a puppy mill, I want a dog that people like yourself, seem to have a passion for in the way of keeping the breed as they should and not just cranking out pups to make money while they live in sub par conditions. 
 I have a breeder close to me, XXX XXXXXX, This is what originally drew my attention to investigate different breeders of German imports and decedents of such. I have heard both good and bad about this breeder, but all seem to agree they do have superb,excellent beautiful dogs. Its more the personality of the breeder that has had a negative effect on me through information I have obtained on the web. However searches do not indicate any negative comments about you or your dogs.
We are not rich by any means and therefor not looking to spend a fortune but have a better idea of what range we can and will spend. 
 I would like to speak with you at some time as to your possible suggestions based on our needs and with speaking to others will help us make a decision.
Please let me know via Email or you can contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx
Regards,

I think coming here for advice may have been a big plus, Trust me I am not hear to bash, put down any breeder, I won't include any information as to who I have and have not spoken with or heard or not heard from. I am sure each circumstance is different and reasons are likely acceptable, if I heard reason. I am sure some that I have contacted may be members here and provide advice or are very respected and I in no way want to create any friction.
I am just overwhelmed by all of this, I do believe a working line is more to my liking, a straighter back, slightly larger and color to be honest is a want but not a big determaining factor. Health and temperment in first and formost.
 I am not aware who can and can not "plug" their dogs here, but feel like you guys/gals all have the experience with your own dogs, dogs purchased to get me started in the correct direction and already and thankful for the quick replies. 
I have read hundreds of pages on the web in the last 5 months or so and have a much better idea what it is we want, do my original requstes at the top seem logical, am I trying to get something that is a mixture of different lines? I am not sure, do I have to sacrifice one thing for another? 
What types of GSD do you have ? Not looking for one you have for sale just information on what you have and its likelyhood it would fit us, or not in the way of what you get out of your dog and what it gets out of you ? 
Am I looking for the correct type of GSD based on the color and pigment are my least concern?
I did forget to mention we currently have 2 cats and two grandchildren as well that are here quite a bit so there will be young ones around too.
Could I be safe for a trained 1 year old dog as far as bonds?


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## QDMHunter (Feb 6, 2012)

ok, reponding I have now I just changed my original post. sheesh. Clearly I am new to this.... DARN IT


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## QDMHunter (Feb 6, 2012)

zyppi said:


> Many breeders list phone numbers.
> 
> A call is worth a 100 emails.


I hear ya, I also understand this, my only take on that is the following.
We are all sometimes busy with all kinds of things, someone may call me when I have a lot going on, grandsons running around acting like young boys and I'd hate for my first imperssion to someone be at that exact moment, I'll never get the chance to make a second.
Most people involved in this breeding/training arena are likely busy as I am and I'd hate to disrupt them and get the impression they dont have time for me and my concerns or questions. That would be a real turn off, however they may have the exact knowledge I need and am trying to aquire and I just happen to catch them at that moment when they too wish I had not called. To me it's easier to let them call me when they do have the time. It's likely I'd call durring their dinner. Murphy's Law.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Hello and welcome!

I'm curious as to why you want a 'little larger female' and specifically what size does that correspond to (70 pounds, 80 pounds, more?). 

If I may suggest, I would be a little more to the point in your e.mail to breeders.

Just tell them what you are looking for in your future dog and don't make mention of puppy mills and other breeders. Keep it more neutral and business like, at first. 

I also agree with the suggestion of calling instead of e.mailing. When I was searching for a dog I found that I got a better feel for the person I was dealing with over the phone. Then, of course, if at all possible to visit in person is the best.

Best of luck in your search, it's so exciting!


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

zyppi said:


> Many breeders list phone numbers.
> 
> A call is worth a 100 emails.


:thumbup:


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## QDMHunter (Feb 6, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Hello and welcome!
> 
> I'm curious as to why you want a 'little larger female' and specifically what size does that correspond to (70 pounds, 80 pounds, more?).
> 
> ...


Thank you for that input, I will take your advise, I only mentioned the puppy mill part to indicate I am serious, not just someone that wants a GSD, those are readily available.

Mentions another breeder is not a compairison, only that the information I can or may obtain after the purchase is just as important to me, not that I'll call everyday or every week but sometime of realtionship with the breeder is somewhat important to me, only if something were to come up I could rely on possible advice from someone who has been there done that so to speak.

When I say larger female, we want a dog that will mature on the larger size for the sex, not the breed, not bred for size but just like all brother and sisters.... some are larger or smaller than others, this family dog does not need to be a PP dog but intimidating and a deterant. aware and alert. Larger dogs are just that with out any PP training.
I appreiciate your advice and will modify my future emails to breeders.
Thank you, Ben


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Seriously if in order to get a response I had to phone-I'd get a rescue-or another breed


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

What came to mind reading your email was, Too much info. Save the life story for later. I'm not trying to be mean, but short, to the point emails are best. (Once your have communicated with someone a few times, THEN you can get more in depth with the info you are giving them.)


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

holland said:


> Seriously if in order to get a response I had to phone-I'd get a rescue-or another breed


See that's just weird to me. Email is notoriously unreliable when its coming from someone who's not in your address book. So many times I email someone who is selling an item on craigslist, wanting to buy their item but never hear back from them. Then they re-list it several times. Never got my email. It's just not reliable.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

When I was breeding Beaucerons, I would get dozens of emails every week regarding the breed. Personally I did not have the time to write a lengthy email back to each and every person, after a few years you kind of learn to weed out the bored late night inquiries. Usually I would send back a quick note saying if or when we had any upcoming litters and ask them to give me a call between certain hours of the day (I made sure I was available outside of "regular" work hours since I know some people have trouble making personal calls while at work). If I heard from them, then great. Email correspondence was fine for the initial contact, but after that I really felt more comfortable speaking on the phone or in person if possible.
And I did regularly find stuff in junk mail weeks after it had been sent.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I got as far as "we do NOT have a fenced yard".

That is probably where your problem lies.

Also, your email is kind of long and wordy, making it hard to read. Try breaking it up point by point and leaving out information that is not pertinent. If the breeder wants more information, they will ask for it.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Definitely do not pay 3k for a family pet. You should be looking at between $1000 and $1500, which is typical from my puppy hunting experience. There are tons of fantastic breeders, many on this forum. Use our search function and type "breeder recommendations" or something similar.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck bringing home a new family member!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Try something like this:

Hello XXXXXX, 
My name is Ben XXXX, My family and I reside in Northern VA.
I was interested in speaking to you about your German Shepherds as we draw closer to purchasing a new dog. We have owned a German Shepherd in the past and loved her very much.

I am not looking for a show dog, we are looking for a black or predominantly black female, larger than standard is okay. I am not looking for a dog to compete or to breed, but a good intelligent dog as a family pet.

Can you tell me what prices you are asking for pups?

I would like to speak with you at some time as to your possible suggestions based on our needs. We do not have a fenced yard, but the pup would be an indoor dog with plenty of time for walks, exercise, and training. Would you consider placing a pup in such a home?

Please let me know via Email or you can contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx
Regards,



All the other stuff about other breeders, the ashes on the shelf, etc is not pertinent. Straightforward and to the point is what you want, and you can discuss your specific needs in further emails or a phone call.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I support Freestep's version of the e-mail.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

You're welcome. 

The advice comes most humbly from the 'been there done that' school.

btw: I think Freestep's version of the letter above is very good way to open communications. 







QDMHunter said:


> Thank you for that input, I will take your advise, I only mentioned the puppy mill part to indicate I am serious, not just someone that wants a GSD, those are readily available.
> 
> Mentions another breeder is not a compairison, only that the information I can or may obtain after the purchase is just as important to me, not that I'll call everyday or every week but sometime of realtionship with the breeder is somewhat important to me, only if something were to come up I could rely on possible advice from someone who has been there done that so to speak.
> 
> ...


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Shorten the e-mail by 80%. Why are you offering info that may be viewed as a negative? We have 1.7 acres of fenced yard but Fritz is almost never out there unaccompanied. He gets real exercise off premises,is unneutered and shows no tendencies to wander. Leave it out!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

The original poster took some time in his e-mail to explain his situation maybe its a little bit long-but its not excessive someone could easily read it within 5 minutes I think-yet the expectation is that he should shorten it or jump through whatever necessary hoops the breeder might have-I wouldn't have any problem contacting a breeder by phone if that was what was preferred-but if a e-mail address was provided I would assume you could contact a breeder by e-mail as well-after a couple of attempts I would move on. Breeders can periodiocally check their junk mail Don't think it takes up too much of their time to send a e-mail saying Sorry I don't have anything for you-or any sort of response to someone who has taken the time to write them-the message seems to be that the breeders time is somehow more important-I would just look at it as its not meant to be and move on-Things work out the way they are meant to, I think


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

holland said:


> The original poster took some time in his e-mail to explain his situation maybe its a little bit long-but its not excessive someone could easily read it within 5 minutes I think-yet the expectation is that he should shorten it or jump through whatever necessary hoops the breeder might have-I wouldn't have any problem contacting a breeder by phone if that was what was preferred-but if a e-mail address was provided I would assume you could contact a breeder by e-mail as well-after a couple of attempts I would move on. Breeders can periodiocally check their junk mail Don't think it takes up too much of their time to send a e-mail saying Sorry I don't have anything for you-or any sort of response to someone who has taken the time to write them-the message seems to be that the breeders time is somehow more important-I would just look at it as its not meant to be and move on-Things work out the way they are meant to, I think


I wouldn't read it unless I was desperate to sell a puppy. I might scan it.


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

Personally, read about the unfenced yard and stopped (most breeders, rescues etc all ask for fenced yards), and the whole bit about wanting a black female on the larger end of the scale because of OP's previous dog kinda worried me. It appears that the new pup maybe constantly be compared to the older "perfect" version, specially since it appears he's looking for one of the same body type and mannerisms and drive etc, too close for comfort i guess. I'd worry about the pup being different from his old dog and him being disappointed because he expected a pup that was identical to his previous dog....

IMHO, just sorta the sense i got frm reading his email >.<


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

It is easy to send out one lengthy email to 100 addresses. It takes much more time to provide individual response to a lengthy email. The message leaves the impression that the author is just shopping around and contacting many breeders in the process. One would get a better response by sending and individualized email whybthey are interested in the breeder they are contacting as opposed to "I am shopping around, contacting many breeders that are not puppy mills and you are one of them".


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

The no fence situation is not optimal, and then the working line breeder who breeds for normal size can think "one of those who think bigger is better, again". Knocking on the wrong door looking for oversized in WLGSD. It is not impossible, but I am not sure that the breeder can know whether they'll have an oversized in the litter.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Along with what RebelGSD said above, when I contact a breeder out of the blue I talk less about what I want and more about what they have that I think would work for me. I want them to know (without having to read an e-mail as long as the Bible) that I've done some research up front, I'm not just sending the same story to three dozen breeders. I'm interested in THIS litter or THAT particular stud or female. Often I do have questions but they are pretty direct yes/no kind of questions. I don't want to burden the breeder with the task of trying to sell me a puppy; if I contact a breeder it's usually because I already want the puppy and I just need to be sure one is available and that the breeder agrees I have the right expectations.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I don't know about other breeders but a mention of "looking for larger GSD" in the email does not deter us from replying back, on the other hand hubby takes it as an opportunity to educate the person about the breed standard. A lot of times they will actually understand the reasoning and are greatful to learn. If in the other hand they insist on having an oversized GSD then we just tell them we don't breed for that and don't have what they are looking for. 

Not having a fenced in yard is not a must either, a person can excirse a dog many other ways, not just by "throwing" the dog outside and let him have run of the backyard, most of the time unattended because.. there is a fence, nothing can happen.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When I contacted breeders, I specified which breeding I was interested in and if there was a chance to be put on a reserve list. I didn't ask price (as they posted that on their website upfront) or tell them much about me other than I wanted the pup to train in SchH. I figured if they replied, then we could go more in depth into *me and what I* wanted. After their replies, I offered them a link to my photobucket acct so they could see pics of my other dogs, back yard and a few shots of the home. It was up to them whether or not they wanted to click on the link.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Never understood why rescues or anyone would turn someone down because they don't have a fenced yard. A yard is for number 1 and number 2, fenced or not. A leash is a simple solution for not having a fence to do those things. 

A majority of the mental and physical stimulation should be done outside the home. If i were a breeder or rescue making these kind of decisions, I'd be more concerned with what the potential puppy buyer will be doing outside the home than inside the fenced in back yard.

OP... for the first email and like everyone has said, keep it short and sweet for that first intro email. Do your research on the specific lines they breed and then get into the more specific details.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

And one thing I would never do in an email to a breeder is bad-mouth another breeder. Not cool at all.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Not having a fenced in yard is not a must either, a person can excirse a dog many other ways, not just by "throwing" the dog outside and let him have run of the backyard, most of the time unattended because.. there is a fence, nothing can happen.


:thumbup:


I've never had a problem getting a puppy due to not having a fence. I don't NEED a fence. There are several hundred acres here and no neighbors within a few MILES, and even with that, Siren is NEVER outside alone. I TAKE my dogs outside rather than "letting" them out like a lot of folks that have a fenced yard.

When I talk to a breeder, after telling them what I'm looking for, and my past dog experience, I ask if they have an issue with me not having a fenced yard. Not once have I been told that this is a deal breaker.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

shorter version of the e-mail is better. everyone is short on time these days, and the less info you put out there to be "interpreted" by someone else, the better. good luck with your search.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Not everybody is aware of the amount of exercise on leash that a dog needs. We had dogs returned within 24 hours or a few days, after the loving owners discovered that they have to walk and exercise their dog in bad weather. The fact that there are individuals who do it does not mean that the majority of dog owners are capable or willing. before adoption everybody is active and athletic and an experienced trainer raised with shepherds. We also had dogs run away from a new home without a fence. The number of after adoption problems is much higher when the home does not have a fence. People end up being too lazy to keep the dog on leash or properly exercise the dog.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A puppy going to a home without a fence vs a rescue going to a home with out a fence is different, IMO. I agree, a new adult dog may bolt if a door is opened, or slip a collar and take off...a fence is a nice security blanket. I had dogs for several years with no fencing, and now that I have one, I don't think I could deal with NOT having it. 
I can understand from a breeder or rescue perspective on the benefits of fence containment. But it shouldn't be a deal breaker for a new pup as long as the breeder has screened the new owner for intelligence & common sense, if that can even be done without a person to person meeting!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Pick the phone up and talk to the perspective breeder. Emails cannot answer questions and follow-up questions. As a breeder I may not have clear understanding from your email, or I may have concerns I want expressed that you could easily clear up in a conversation. After talking to a person for a few minutes, breeders often have a much clearer picture of the home/owner. Also, some people don't have a clue about the maintenance and upkeep of a GS, and the breeder needs to get a feel if this is where you want one of your puppies to go. Call!!


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