# Schutzhund Training



## 1337f0x (Feb 21, 2012)

It sounds pretty strict, but kind of how I'd like to train Simba. Will this be the type of training that turns him into mainly a protection dog, or will he still be loveable and play with me like a "family dog." ?


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

If your dog has the proper temperament he can still be a nice family dog. Schutzhund is a sport so not necessarily protection dogs. What lines is your puppy from?


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## 1337f0x (Feb 21, 2012)

Also, am I able to choose a certain course to do? I see there's 3 training types, but I'm more for the obedience training. Tracking seems cool too, but it's not something I would use, nor do I want Simba to compete in the sport.

Lines as in specific breed? He's a German Shepherd Chocolate Lab mix.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

Yes you can choose to do just the ob portions. Mix breeds can compete in Schutzhund especially if you are just thinking the ob. For the protection aspect the dog must have specific drives and temperament. With a mix breed you would be less likely to find the proper temperament and drives but not at all unheard of. If you do decide you want to do more than ob your club would be able to tell you what your dog is capable of.

The best is to join a club I think most clubs would be fine if someone just wanted to do ob.


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## 1337f0x (Feb 21, 2012)

Cool thanks =) There's several within an hour or less driving distance from me. What do you guys think the best age to start would be?

I'm trying not to take Simba out til his second set of shots and deworming (12 weeks) - but thereafter, I should be fine and worry less about taking him to the Schutzhund club?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Take him to the club now and get him tested. They will tell you if its worth your while continuing. Schutzhund obedience is not much different from AKC obedience, so if all you want is that part you can probably find what you're looking for in any obedience class.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The only way to really get a good feel for SchH, and find out if your dog has the temperament for it, is to visit some clubs and get him evaluated.

To warn you though, some SchH clubs will be biased against a mixed breed, especially when one of the mixes (Lab) is not one that typically has the temperament for SchH.

If you're main interest is obedience though, SchH is probably not the activity for you. While yes it is possible to title in just the obedience phase, that is something that is typically done with a dog not yet ready for all 3 phases, or maybe a retired dog. It isn't intended to be the end goal. SchH is a 3 phase sport, and most clubs are going to want member who are interested in SchH... all of it, all 3 phases.. and who want to participate in all 3 and have a dog suitable for all 3. 

This isn't elitest, though it can seem that way, it's simply pragmatic. There are usually more people wanting to do SchH than there are clubs able to work with them. Whereas there are many other venues where someone wanting to just do obedience can do obedience (for a lot less cost and time committment as well). So it just makes sense to steer those with an interest in obedience toward trainers and clubs that focus on that, and keep the SchH club membership slots open to those who really want to do SchH.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

On the other hand, clubs like ours offer a lower priced membership for those who just want to do obedience or tracking. Since this type of member is not a drain on helpers and bitework time, we are great with this type of member. They come only to the first part of practice when we do obedience and to our tracking gatherings. We currently have 4 people with this type of membership. One has an older WL GSD girl with some joint issues, but she loves to track and the owners like the club. Another is a girl who has a GSD and wants to do a BH, she is in college so time is limited, but she can work with us during obedience when she can and can do her training at school. Another has a mixed boxer/pitty and the dog doesn't really like to bite, his plan is to get a WL shepherd in a year or so but in the meantime he wants to keep learning with the mix. And the last is a girl with a GSD that she got from a pet store that has no papers but she wants to do obedience with other GSDs and also get his BH (with a PAL number from AKC). All of them also are thinking it might be fun to do AKC obedience as well.
The way we see it those people are great ambassadors for the sport overall, they get out there with really well trained dogs and when people ask where they train they just love to talk about the Schutzhund club.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Chris makes a good point. Not to say all clubs are like this, but I've been to a couple where you would definitely get a lot of flack for having a mix. Some clubs are oriented towards working dogs and others towards showlines. I've heard some nasty comments at a club or two about my showlines (and showlines in general). Just to warn you about what you _might_ experience. Just go observe, start with obedience and reevaluate bitework after a couple of visits. Like others said, protection phase requires certain skills that might be difficult for a mix.


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## 1337f0x (Feb 21, 2012)

Dog racism pretty much? Well thanks for the input guys, I'd hate to waste my time. I'm not done looking. But all the help is great again.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

LOL ...just get a working line GSD and commit your life to schutzhund and you'll fit right in


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Not so much "racism". I found that it is more that they love this sport so much that they want to preserve the standards they feel the sport should be held to. Some of the diehards don't like it when people miss sessions, waste time or don't stay the whole time. Just things like that. 

It all depends on the club though. Some are very strict and by the book. Others have a more relaxed atmosphere. You really just have to visit, observe and see if the club has a vibe you are comfortable with. 

At my club, we mostly have showlines and some working dogs. Every once in a blue moon, we get a dobie. But that's the extent of the diversity. Just wanted to let you know about the atomosphere you _might_ find at some clubs. My club wouldn't care if you brought your mix, but some might. Of course some people are just downright mean, but you will find that anywhere.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

It's not so much about dog racism but labs generally don't have the temperament to handle the protection phase of the sport.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's not racism. Clubs get competitive, and you want to have the best chance to succeed, and this usually means a working line dog. Also, many of these clubs have limited resources, so to use them on someone that won't be competing or moving on to other things, isn't always to their advantage. Then, many of these clubs don't have "professional dog trainers" they have people that have delt with one kind of dog for years and have trained one type of dog. They know how a breed thinks and what works to train a breed, not necessary any and all dogs. This is how my GSD club works, so we don't allow anything but a GSD since the instructors wouldn't necessarily know how to deal with or relate to another breed.

There will be people that would look down on your for having a mixed breed, especially in SchH circles, but mostly its because your training wouldn't match up to the training of the other people in the club. Trust me, training gets competitive really quickly and you're going to want your dog to be the best in his "class," I'm not saying its impossible, but it will be difficult. That's why I would suggest finding someone that understands better how to work with all dogs rather than just working dogs or GSDs or whatever their specialty might be.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Very well said martemchik :thumbup:


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## 1337f0x (Feb 21, 2012)

Ohh. Okay. That makes a lot of sense to me, thanks for that thorough explanation. It couldn't hurt taking him in to get checked, of course, though, right? I'm dedicated to training, the facility in Toronto I looked at has training on Sunday's which works perfectly with my schedule. 

I wont throw the baby out with the bath water if I get declined entry, there's a lot of training facilities around. This one just looked really advance and like I'd see some great outcomes by taking him there.

Thanks everyone!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Just call them and ask first. No need for us to sit around here wondering. See if they will first allow you to just do the obedience training, and second if they will allow your dog. Like the other posters said, some clubs don't want to waste time on dogs that aren't going to be either competing, or doing the other aspects of SchH. I'm intersted in what they tell you, so keep us updated.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Our club is an all breed club. We don't care about breed but we care very much about temperment. It is unfair ask a dog without the proper drive or nerve to do something they were not bred for.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

bocron said:


> On the other hand, clubs like ours offer a lower priced membership for those who just want to do obedience or tracking. Since this type of member is not a drain on helpers and bitework time, we are great with this type of member. They come only to the first part of practice when we do obedience and to our tracking gatherings. We currently have 4 people with this type of membership. One has an older WL GSD girl with some joint issues, but she loves to track and the owners like the club. Another is a girl who has a GSD and wants to do a BH, she is in college so time is limited, but she can work with us during obedience when she can and can do her training at school. Another has a mixed boxer/pitty and the dog doesn't really like to bite, his plan is to get a WL shepherd in a year or so but in the meantime he wants to keep learning with the mix. And the last is a girl with a GSD that she got from a pet store that has no papers but she wants to do obedience with other GSDs and also get his BH (with a PAL number from AKC). All of them also are thinking it might be fun to do AKC obedience as well.
> The way we see it those people are great ambassadors for the sport overall, they get out there with really well trained dogs and when people ask where they train they just love to talk about the Schutzhund club.


Yes it is nice to have people who are into training dogs and I find the people who just want to do obedience are really there for the training. We get far more people who are just into the protection and wanting their dogs to do bitework who really don't end up caring much about actually training dogs


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Clyde said:


> Yes it is nice to have people who are into training dogs and I find the people who just want to do obedience are really there for the training. We get far more people who are just into the protection and wanting their dogs to do bitework who really don't end up caring much about actually training dogs



Yea, that's why at least IMO if I ran a club I'd gladly accept lower-membership members that just want to do obedience, or just want to do tracking, but not members that just want to do protection.

Some people will disagree completely with allowing people to join just for phase a or b but I'm sure all would agree they wouldn't accept people who just want to do protection work


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

We require anyone who participates in protection work to arrive in time to participate in obedience. If they show up after we have finished with obedience then the dog may not get worked in protection (if they clear it with the TD in advance then that is up to the TD).
If they want a tracking or obedience only membership then they pay a lower amount for the membership. The few who do have those types of membership will hang out and watch protection which is fine.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Our club is fairly new but we are in the process of registering with the GSSCC here in Ontario, Canada.

We accept all breeds/dogs capable of work (temperament, working ability, structure/health). This does not mean that every dog who comes to our club is capable of all three aspects of the sport.

We have several members (website is not to date) who do all three phases and then we have a few who do just tracking and/or obedience.

We also have members who do more than schutzhund and so train a different "way" than some of us do, which is fine. Also, our club is involved in many different types of venues (agility, herding, obedience, dock diving, etc.) on the side as well.

These members pay a lower club fee than those who do all three phases.

Most of our members will stay for all three phases or show up on days we only work "c" phase just to learn, which is totally fine and we encourage our members to support one another (especially in training!).

I know you are in my area, your more than welcome to come out and watch us train if you like, just PM me. This Sunday we are visiting another club in our area to do some training but will be back to our regular schedule next week. Your more than welcome to come and talk to our members, everyone should be there next week for training.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

We have an all breed group as well and people at all levels and focuses. We, ourselves, are pretty focused, but understand if people have emergencies, other commitments, run late due to whatever. As long as it is not a habit, not bit deal. And we explain to people the commitment and what it takes to get to a sch1. Some might take longer due to life....

No big deal. At least they know, understand and are working towards a goal. They are part of the group and are treated like everyone else.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

We do the same with OB prior to protection. If someone has given us a heads up that they are running late, we work the OB session in, so they can work protection. We have people traveling from long distances, so we try and ensure they have the training..


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## KayC427 (Jul 3, 2012)

Hey guys I am new to this Forum. My German Shepherd Bailey is 8 months old right now, I have just gotten in to Shutzhund and prior to this never tought bitework or started to form a prey drive. My Dog does not like to play tug with rope toys, i only have one toy that she absolutely goes crazy for and shows an insane amount of drive for and that is the frisbee she will tug it and go nuts when i let her have it. But i can't bring this drive out unless we are playing frisbee. I use the frisbee for obedience alot. 
well when it comes to bitework i feel like im lost because i can't really get her to go for anything other than the frisbee. when i was working with a helper she would bark but she wouldn't try to bite she just kind of backed off behind me. i praised her when she barked and the helper ran away. 
I guess what I need help with is to get her to have the same drive when working with the helper as she has when with the frisbee. i just dont get how to transition


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## KayC427 (Jul 3, 2012)

KayC427 said:


> Hey guys I am new to this Forum. My German Shepherd Bailey is 8 months old right now, I have just gotten in to Shutzhund and prior to this never tought bitework or started to form a prey drive. My Dog does not like to play tug with rope toys, i only have one toy that she absolutely goes crazy for and shows an insane amount of drive for and that is the frisbee she will tug it and go nuts when i let her have it. But i can't bring this drive out unless we are playing frisbee. I use the frisbee for obedience alot.
> well when it comes to bitework i feel like im lost because i can't really get her to go for anything other than the frisbee. when i was working with a helper she would bark but she wouldn't try to bite she just kind of backed off behind me. i praised her when she barked and the helper ran away.
> I guess what I need help with is to get her to have the same drive when working with the helper as she has when with the frisbee. i just dont get how to transition


BTW this was the first training session for Shutzhund and I have zero experience in shutzhund i just recently went out to the metro detroit shutzhund club in Michigan. they are a really great group from what I could see. I was just hoping she would be able to Title, so any tips on this would greatly be appreciated.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You need to get a good helper to work on bringing out her drives....and at 8 months, it should be done without pressure. Not sure what group you are working with, but most good helpers can get the prey drive going if the dog has it in her.
I think it would not be too hard to transfer her love for her frisbee to a two handled tug or a ball on string. 
You are in a great location, there are quite a few good clubs within an hour's drive! Keep on training with a club and eventually the titles will come, it isn't easy and doesn't happen quickly.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Good luck to you and your dog and welcome to the forum. You may have to do more evaluation with your dog to find out if it has the type of drive needed to succeed in schutzhund. Its a great sport but not all dogs will engage with a helper nor show interest in a sleeve. Don't feel bad though. I had two gorgeous German Shepherds that were ball crazy but would never bite a tug or sleeve _ever_. They just did not see the point in it and could not be less interested. They were still great dogs and we had many wonderful years together. It was not until my third German Shepherd that I was able to begin participating in schutzhund. The jury is still out if we will ever make it to a title.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was in that same boat robk....had to find a good pup to keep up with my addiction. My first dog wouldn't engage the helper either, even though she loves to fight. 
I think if KayC427 gets with a good club, they will let her know if Bailey has it or not without wasting too much time.
My helper did let me know Onyx didn't have 'it' early on. And now that I know what I know, I should never have even tried with her! Though I could have gotten tracking titles on her if I invested the time. She loves to track.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think Metro is a good club. I'd stick with it there if you like it and see how it goes. If you're not familiar with the sport or the training it can take a few sessions to see the "real" dog.


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