# Good site to get it straight.



## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

This is a good site, subscribe to their newsletter and keep informed... I read a lot of nonsense and this site can answer your questions.

*TruthaboutPetFood.com*


----------



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! :rofl: Oh man, that's funny. *wipes away tear*


....Oh wait, were you actually serious?


----------



## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

The OP has a hobby of writing reviews for dog foods.... ever wonder where?


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

have you checked out truthaboutpetfood.com? i think
it's an informative site. i doubt threetoestonyismydog
has his reviews on truthaboutpetfood.



GrammaD said:


> The OP has a hobby of writing reviews for dog foods.... ever wonder where?


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have to say this is getting tiresome.....

People can choose to go to these sites if they wish. Like anything on the web you have to wonder about credentials (particularly when then make money sharing their opinions with us) - Sometimes there is good information but you have to filter it. YOu have to ask even about the core assumptions of authors who rate food based on these things. 

*A value of our forum is that we can discuss what does and does not work for us as individual GSD dog owners and to point to and discuss interesting research etc. We all know that what works for one dog may not work for another. Sorry, its true.* 

*I am really sorry but when I hear the words TRUST ME. or TRUST a company. I walk. Same thing with dog trainers. I trust in God, all others have to earn it and even then, I will ask "why" "can you explain that" etc.*

It is very irrirating, to say the least, when people take it upon themselves as a personal mission to "educate" the rest of us.......... particularly when they may not even have experience with actually working dogs, long term GSD experieince, or in one case, don't even HAVE GSDs but just come here to pontificate so as to viewpoints to save us from ourselves............


----------



## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Like with any information site I don't take _everything_ as gospel. I think this site provides some good info.

Ah ha - but I see the delivery by the OP is sometimes persistent and a turn off to members, which I understand.


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> Like anything on the web you have to wonder about credentials (particularly when then make money sharing their opinions with us)


Exactly! I do my own research, I won't trust just one site and one opinion to make up my mind for me, and neither should anyone else

The fact they charge you is just disgusting, how can they spout on how they want to keep animals safe from bad food, but oh wait we want money for our opinion...bull!


----------



## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> have you checked out truthaboutpetfood.com? i think
> it's an informative site. i doubt threetoestonyismydog
> has his reviews on truthaboutpetfood.


I have and I wonder daily how the woman who runs it has avoided being sued.

There is little "truth" on that site. Just a lot of rumor, innuendo, speculation, and unsubstantiated opinion posing as fact. 

The style reminds me of someone......


----------



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

*We all know that what works for one dog may not work for another.*

Not according to Tony. According to him, if you don't feed Orijen, you're a "pinheaded idiot" and you shouldn't own a dog. (I've got the pmail from him to prove his ridiculous thoughts. :rofl: Not that it can't be seen in pretty much every post he types on this board) Even if your dog doesn't do well on it (ie. DIARRHEA), you should feed Orijen because God gave us Orijen to save all the dogs who've lived so long on foods like Purina! 

Other than that, I completely agree with you Nancy. :thumbup:


----------



## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

ChancetheGSD said:


> *We all know that what works for one dog may not work for another.*
> 
> Not according to Tony. According to him, if you don't feed Orijen, you're a "pinheaded idiot" and you shouldn't own a dog. (I've got the pmail from him to prove his ridiculous thoughts. :rofl: Not that it can't be seen in pretty much every post he types on this board) Even if your dog doesn't do well on it (ie. DIARRHEA), you should feed Orijen because God gave us Orijen to save all the dogs who've lived so long on foods like Purina!
> 
> Other than that, I completely agree with you Nancy. :thumbup:


Well it is cult-like that is for sure. I suppose when you spend that kind of money you block out all evidence, like when the food tested positive for BHA/BHT, that shows you made the wrong decision. 

And all I keep hearing about is this Champion Plant, it is in fact a dump that the town wants closed. You can read that in the local paper there.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

LongFunRun, can you post links to substantiate your allegations?

The only issue I saw on a google search between the town and the company is the odor emanating from the plant which is, I am sure, pretty strong and certainly an issue, but not relating to food quality. OF course, if you walk into a USDA inspected Chicken Plant, the smell will turn your stomach and make you wonder about eating chicken......same for any large plant. 

Now, concerning the plant being a dump. Who inspects plants in Canada and are the records public access (I am familiar here with Inspections Reports and 483 findings which can be obtained under FOI but that is in the USA, not Canada) 

I think you will find that many folks are not going to take yours (or 3ToesTony) assurances concering the inspection of a facility. I would think neither one of you is actually any kind of public health inspector because publicly posting such statement would be a severe ethical violation for any agency you worked for.


----------



## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> LongFunRun, can you post links to substantiate your allegations?
> 
> I would also be interested as I found the same as you.


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

LongFunRun said:


> *I suppose when you spend that kind of money you block out all evidence*,


I think most people are willing to spend that kind of money because of the evidence they've found that suggests it is an excellent food. It's not that dogs can't live long lives and not be on Orijen, but that doesn't mean they're healthy. My grandma ate crap food for as long as I can remember, she'd smoked a pack a day since she was 18, and 2 packs a day from about 55-60 until she died. She lived to be pretty old, but I guarantee you it was by the grace of God because she didn't do a darn thing to help herself. 

I currently buy TOTW, which is cheaper than Orijen but not substantially, and I wind up paying $45 for a 30lb bag and that usually lasts me around 2 months. Sasha's coat is beautiful, she always has plenty of energy, her poops are small, the vet said she had the body of an athlete, and I really don't mind paying a little more to know that she is getting one of the best quality foods in my price range.

I would switch to Orijen if there was some place close to me that sold it. As is, the price of gas is too high to make it worth driving an hour to the store and and hour back to get it. However, if my choice was do that or buy Purina I would make the drive. I want to give her the best chance at living a happy healthy life. My golden lived to be quite old for a golden, and he was fed crap his whole life, but who's to say he wouldn't have lived longer if he had been fed better.


----------



## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> jocoyn said:
> 
> 
> > LongFunRun, can you post links to substantiate your allegations?
> ...


----------



## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

It is obvious longrun works for a dog food company. His *on going* *bashing* of Champion dog food is really old. The link he put up was 5 years old and Champion took the honest way of dealing with the issue. Many of his accusations are 100% false. Orijen is *THEEE* best dog food made today, plain and simple. If I couldn't get Orijen I would feed Horizon Legacy. It's sad when someone has to continually bash another company, over and over, when trying to make theirs look better. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. I have gone through Champions facility and was very happy with what I saw. GIVE IT A REST, THANK THIS SITE FOR HAVING A IGNORE LIST. I recommend everyone to ignore this person, I have a pretty good idea who he is and he has had issues where ever he goes.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

You two need to get a room.


----------



## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> It is obvious longrun works for a dog food company. His *on going* *bashing* of Champion dog food is really old. The link he put up was 5 years old and Champion took the honest way of dealing with the issue. Many of his accusations are 100% false. Orijen is *THEEE* best dog food made today, plain and simple. If I couldn't get Orijen I would feed Horizon Legacy. It's sad when someone has to continually bash another company, over and over, when trying to make theirs look better. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. I have gone through Champions facility and was very happy with what I saw. GIVE IT A REST, THANK THIS SITE FOR HAVING A IGNORE LIST. I recommend everyone to ignore this person, I have a pretty good idea who he is and he has had issues where ever he goes.


I am only presenting facts. You live in a world of fiction and fantasy. I work for a food company? LOL, good one.


----------



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I think most people are willing to spend that kind of money because of the evidence they've found that suggests it is an excellent food. *It's not that dogs can't live long lives and not be on Orijen, but that doesn't mean they're healthy.*


Alright, who are YOU to say that a dog can't live a healthy life on something besides Orijen? Because my dogs have never had a taste of Orijen and Zoey is 14 years old and her only medical problem is a low thyroid which I can almost guarantee came from her spay at 10 years old seeing as that's when it started and there is proof to back up that spaying and neutering can lead to thyroid problems. If a dog is already healthy, with blood work and looks to back it up, then how on earth is a dog suppose to be "more healthy" being fed over priced food?

Which ftr, one of our local stores just started carrying Acana and Orjien. $70-$85 depending on the formula, for just under 30lb of food? Are you freaking serious? Acana is only a couple dollars cheaper but certainly not enough for me to give it a try.

My only issue with the company is the ridiculous price, I could feed RAW for much cheaper, at least half that price. Why would I spend that much money on kibble??? And especially why would I spend that much money if another brand that is cheaper is WORKING for my dog? Again, blood work and looks to prove it all.

I see far too many people who feed Orijen, their dog starts having diarrhea and then they don't want to take the dog off because it's "the best". Obviously not the best for your dog if you can't get a solid stool out of it after 3 months of "waiting it out". Diarrhea can especially be deadly to puppies and elderly dogs, why risk your dogs life for it?

And that would be my issue with a lot (but not all) who feed it. They think it's so perfect and that every dog will live a long and healthy life if they just give into the money. That's so far from the truth that unicorns are starting to exist!


----------



## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Plain and simple, not every dog is the same. Some do better on Purina and others do better on Orijen. Some don't even do well on kibble and need a special home cooked diet. No one can say that a food company is the best and some other is the worse but do what works for you.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> Like anything on the web you have to wonder about credentials (particularly when then make money sharing their opinions with us) -


Wait... there's a site where I can make money spouting off my opinions?? Where do I sign up?


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> I see far too many people who feed Orijen, their dog starts having diarrhea and then they don't want to take the dog off because it's "the best". Obviously not the best for your dog if you can't get a solid stool out of it after 3 months of "waiting it out". Diarrhea can especially be deadly to puppies and elderly dogs, why risk your dogs life for it?


I wouldn't buy this food for that very reason. By far the most common thing I've heard from people who feed Orijen is that their dog gets the runs from it. Why people spend this much money on a food that commonly causes digestive upset, I will never understand.

I got my first dog when I was 18 years old, living on my own, and I didn't have a clue about what to feed a GSD puppy. I was a student and didn't have a job, so didn't have much money, certainly not enough to buy what was considered the best food at the time. I raised the pup on Purina Puppy Chow mixed with Purina Dog Chow. I started feeding Wayne kibble when she was about a year old. She lived on that until she was about 4, then she ate Iams Lamb and Rice along with other similar kibble. After I discovered raw, she ate raw until about age 15, then I started cooking her meals until she passed away at the age of 16. Never sick a day in her life. The only problem she had was flea allergy and hotspots...which pretty much solved itself after Advantage was invented.

Somehow I doubt she would have lived any longer if she'd been fed Orijen.


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Every time a thread and conversation like this arises, I can't help but wonder how people don't murder each other everyday in this world. (I mean... constantly killing one another all day long. I know there are murders at any time across the world)

Everyone has the right to choose what is best for them and their dogs. All we can do (me for example, with an education and career background in animal care) is share what we've learned and try to support our opinion with facts. Offer it to others without pushing.

Whoever reads has the right to determine whether or not they agree, and want to follow that route.

Here's my opinion on Orijen... marketing aside:

Champion pet foods has a good record when it comes to food safety and recalls. Nobody is perfect, but they're the best I've come across.

Orijen and Acana have an exceptional ingredient read. The ingredients used are all whole, real foods you and I would eat every day. If they are not lying, the ingredients are delivered fresh and never frozen. If I had to feed a kibble, it would be Orijen. 

However, I can't bring myself to feed kibble. I feed raw for many, many reasons. I try to share what I know about raw with others, hoping they will make the change or at least understand where I am coming from.

I don't understand why people have to get so arrogant, abrasive and disrespectful with each other. Society drives me insane sometimes.

I wish people would share what knowledge they have in a respectful manner, and allow everyone to make their own decisions and form their own opinions in peace. I know we will never, ever, ever live in a world where people truly respect one another. I'm not naive. I am just sad that we have so much anger and confrontational people here in our GSD community.

Sorry mods, I just suddenly felt the need to rant. Opps.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Angel, as far as rants go that is one of the best I have seen. Thank you!


----------



## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> Angel, as far as rants go that is one of the best I have seen. Thank you!


Here HERE!!!!:thumbup:


----------



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Freestep said:


> I wouldn't buy this food for that very reason. By far the most common thing I've heard from people who feed Orijen is that their dog gets the runs from it. Why people spend this much money on a food that commonly causes digestive upset, I will never understand.


Count Gunner in the pool of dogs who suffered nasty diarrhea from Orijen.
I gave it a chance but after a few weeks, I knew the nasty poos weren't going to subside.
Like it has been stated, what works for one, does not necessarily work for another.


----------



## LongFunRun (May 6, 2012)

Freestep said:


> I wouldn't buy this food for that very reason. By far the most common thing I've heard from people who feed Orijen is that their dog gets the runs from it. Why people spend this much money on a food that commonly causes digestive upset, I will never understand.
> 
> I got my first dog when I was 18 years old, living on my own, and I didn't have a clue about what to feed a GSD puppy. I was a student and didn't have a job, so didn't have much money, certainly not enough to buy what was considered the best food at the time. I raised the pup on Purina Puppy Chow mixed with Purina Dog Chow. I started feeding Wayne kibble when she was about a year old. She lived on that until she was about 4, then she ate Iams Lamb and Rice along with other similar kibble. After I discovered raw, she ate raw until about age 15, then I started cooking her meals until she passed away at the age of 16. Never sick a day in her life. The only problem she had was flea allergy and hotspots...which pretty much solved itself after Advantage was invented.
> 
> Somehow I doubt she would have lived any longer if she'd been fed Orijen.


It is a bad product plain and simple. A marketing tale carefully and successfully spun and nurtured by the internet. The family ended the story perfectly by cashing out at the right time. 

With this backdrop, there isn't a documented fact about quality, the sources of ingredients or testing you can provide to change peoples' mind. 

It is called "cognitive dissonance".

I know of at least one national breed club that specifically recommends against using it.


----------



## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

LongFunRun said:


> It is a bad product plain and simple.


I don't even feed Orijen (though I have in the past), but this is a horribly blanketed generalization and not a statement of fact in any way. It is your opinion.

Based on the theoretical dietary NEEDS of canines in general, it is impossible to argue that Orijen's ingredients are anything but exemplary. 

This does not mean every dog will do great on it, every dog won't even do sub-par on it.. but that does not make it any less of a food or a bad product. Sorry, it just doesn't.




> It is called "cognitive dissonance".


Sorry, no it is not.. another mis-statement.



> I know of at least one national breed club that specifically recommends against using it.


Care to enlighten us all as to who that is? Considering I think most of the "breed clubs" in the US have virtually ruined their respective breeds (the GSD being no exception), I'm not sure that is a very pertinent example of something we, as owners, should be trying to replicate.

I'm sure all the GOOD breed clubs tell everyone to feed a mediocre food with "meat, grains and beet pulp" and their dogs should do just fine, right?


----------



## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

edited


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ok, is there ANY site that actually independantly TESTS dog food to verify nutrient claims. Not just reading labels and pontificating on their value by way of some internal standard?

I know something you cannot verify (such as whether or not grass fed livestock is used or wild caught fish)......I realize Canada Pet Food regulations are pretty much non existant though the USA is not much (if any) better based on the food issues we have seen with food intended for human consumption and the recalls etc. 

6 month feeding trials are not enough..I don't think. I have never seen a dog food company ask for lifetime health data such as blood panels or feedback. If you google Purina you are going to find many many many horror stories about sick dogs...and I worry about cancer because the dogs I did have eat Purina the longest died young of cancer. The dog who lived the longest (over 15) and was never sick until the end, ate Nutro for most of his life but that was before Nutrol "sold out". 

I imagine the volume of complaints on any dog food company is, in part, related to the size of the company...statistically, though they may not be as much as smaller companies. "NEver had a recall" does not give me much comfort either. A reputable company will recall even when there is no health data to suggest an adverse effect. A less reputable company will only recall when horrendous evidence piles up and it is demanded by the publc. 

From a vantage point in the biomedical industry, I also know that things we got from Europe such as ISO standards can be pretty much a joke. Embraced properly, wonderful quality management tools, but all too often the quality tools like HAACP, FMEA, ISO certification, EU ceritification can all be bought with the right consultant and then not fully embraced by the organization. Seen it way too many times. Quality MUST come from the top down, can't be tested in, must be built into the processes.


----------



## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

LongFunRun said:


> It is a bad product plain and simple. A marketing tale carefully and successfully spun and nurtured by the internet. The family ended the story perfectly by cashing out at the right time.
> 
> With this backdrop, there isn't a documented fact about quality, the sources of ingredients or testing you can provide to change peoples' mind.
> 
> ...



Atleast sable123 was able to throw in facts to why he is against some products...


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

LongFunRun, aka Sable123, has again been banned.


----------



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

lhczth said:


> LongFunRun, aka Sable123, has again been banned.


Oh, he'll be back.....just wait.


----------



## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

lhczth said:


> LongFunRun, aka Sable123, has again been banned.


He/She made it VERY uncomfortable for a new person like myself.


----------



## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

Just wondering... but, is there a reason why new members aren't required to post intro's on this board like some other boards require before allowing full posting privileges? 

Seems like perhaps it would help eliminate reoccuring issues like Sable123?


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

GSDGunner said:


> Oh, he'll be back.....just wait.


Hey... maybe the 7th time around will be his charm.



Momto2GSDs said:


> He/She made it VERY uncomfortable for a new person like myself.


Don't worry... you're not the first to feel like that. It's his schtick. At this point, I try to avoid the threads like this. Been there, done that.



BritneyP said:


> Just wondering... but, is there a reason why new members aren't required to post intro's on this board like some other boards require before allowing full posting privileges?
> 
> Seems like perhaps it would help eliminate reoccuring issues like Sable123?


The admins can track ip's. If he's posting from an already banned IP, I'm sure they'll know about it eventually.


----------



## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

LOL didn't realize it was actually him!



GSDGunner said:


> Oh, he'll be back.....just wait.


Maybe you're the real sable123 just in hiding


----------



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Kev said:


> Maybe you're the real sable123 just in hiding


aranoid:


----------



## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

Lucy Dog said:


> The admins can track ip's. If he's posting from an already banned IP, I'm sure they'll know about it eventually.


Why bother having to go through that trouble and let someone get 96 posts before banning them?


----------



## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

That person was banned from dogfoodchat forums for almost the same reason. He would bash any dog food, especially Orijen, which I could never figure out until they came clean and mentioned he was a salesman for abady dog food. I figured this guy had switched company's. He would never leave links or proof to what he would say. I was gonna ask him for a picture of his GSD, which of course he couldn't produce, because he doesn't even own any dog. He did mention one thing that was true and that was even Orijen doesn't work for all dogs.

*Please pray for the safety of all our troops keeping this great country of ours free!!! Being a vet I know how they feel.*


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Kev said:


> LOL didn't realize it was actually him!


I notified the mods and I bet I wasn't the only one. I was positive, based on the tone and content of his posts, that it was him again.  The mods don't obsessively read every post so it's up to us to notify them.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

3ToesTonyismydog said:


> That person was banned from dogfoodchat forums for almost the same reason. He would bash any dog food, especially Orijen, which I could never figure out until they came clean and mentioned he was a salesman for abady dog food. I figured this guy had switched company's. He would never leave links or proof to what he would say. I was gonna ask him for a picture of his GSD, which of course he couldn't produce, because he doesn't even own any dog. He did mention one thing that was true and that was even Orijen doesn't work for all dogs.
> 
> *Please pray for the safety of all our troops keeping this great country of ours free!!! Being a vet I know how they feel.*


You got a link proving that? I HIGHLY doubt he's a salesperson for Abady.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think we need to simply move on and remember this VERY WISE rant from Wild Wolf:



Wild Wolf said:


> Every time a thread and conversation like this arises, I can't help but wonder how people don't murder each other everyday in this world. (I mean... constantly killing one another all day long. I know there are murders at any time across the world)
> 
> Everyone has the right to choose what is best for them and their dogs. *All we can do (me for example, with an education and career background in animal care) is share what we've learned and try to support our opinion with facts. Offer it to others without pushing.*
> 
> ...


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I'll admit, I wasn't around long enough to know fully of the Sable123's reputation, but I did find it interesting and enlightening to be steered towards research about beet pulp. I'm not altogether sure why this person was banned. This person stated some strong opinions but many do the same here. I never saw this person being any more caustic than any other who has not been banned.

I'm not defending this person in any way, so please do not see it as that. I didn't necessarily agree with their dislike of Orijen, even though I don't wish to feed Orijen. I have seen others defend Orijen to the same extent this poster knocked it.

Color me confused.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

chelle said:


> I'll admit, I wasn't around long enough to know fully of the Sable123's reputation, but I did find it interesting and enlightening to be steered towards research about beet pulp. I'm not altogether sure why this person was banned. This person stated some strong opinions but many do the same here. I never saw this person being any more caustic than any other who has not been banned.
> 
> I'm not defending this person in any way, so please do not see it as that. I didn't necessarily agree with their dislike of Orijen, even though I don't wish to feed Orijen. I have seen others defend Orijen to the same extent this poster knocked it.
> 
> Color me confused.


Sometimes when a post is really breaking the rules... the mods just delete or completely edit it, so unless you saw a certain post right away, you most likely missed whatever rule was broken. 

Break enough rules or have enough edited posts and you get warned/suspended/permanently banned.

Not saying this was what happened with Sable. I really don't remember why he was banned. The problem with him is that he really does have good information to share at times. He's a smart guy. He just has no idea how to do it without offending everyone in his path. Sad because he could really could be an asset to this place if he had even a little common courtesy and self control.

I have zero doubt this isn't that last time we've heard from though.


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Alright, who are YOU to say that a dog can't live a healthy life on something besides Orijen?<<I'm sorry that I offended you; I didn't mean to imply Orijen is the only good food. It's a great food, but I don't feed it because it isn't sold in my area, and I can't afford the gas nor the miles on my car to drive to get it (old car that's gotta get me through for another....however long it takes me to be done with school....so quite possibly forever lol!) Because my dogs have never had a taste of Orijen and Zoey is 14 years old and her only medical problem is a low thyroid which I can almost guarantee came from her spay at 10 years old seeing as that's when it started and there is proof to back up that spaying and neutering can lead to thyroid problems. If a dog is already healthy, with blood work and looks to back it up, then how on earth is a dog suppose to be "more healthy" being fed over priced food? <<All I'm saying is that there are many foods out there that LongFunRun or whatever his name is was recommending that didn't seem healthy given that they didn't include ingredients that would be more along the lines of what dogs needed. I've said before that my Golden lived on whatever was cheapest at the store, and lived a long life, it doesn't mean that his body was always getting everything it needed. I almost never get sick but I eat like crap. You can see it in my hair and my skin mostly. My grandmother ate like crap and smoked like a chimney her whole adult life and lived to be quite old; that doesn't mean that what she did was best for her body. That's all I'm saying.>>
> 
> Which ftr, one of our local stores just started carrying Acana and Orjien. $70-$85 depending on the formula, for just under 30lb of food? Are you freaking serious? Acana is only a couple dollars cheaper but certainly not enough for me to give it a try.
> 
> ...


I do not think that Orijen, or any other food for that matter, guarantees a long and healthy life for a dog. However, I do feel that trying to feed food that is nutritionally appropriate for dogs can go a long way. That being said, I'm a college kid; I don't have a lot of money. I am fortunate to have a great job in the summer and thus can afford to feed Sasha the foods that I prefer for her. However, if I couldn't for some reason, then I would buy her whatever I could afford, and she would still be loved and cared about and that's what's most important.


----------



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I agree with Chelle and Paul. If this last person WAS Sable, he's certainly learned to control himself a little better. I really never understood why he was banned and I guess I don't understand why this new account be it him or not, was banned. :shrug: I'll go ahead and call Tony out for being just as bad about being defensive over food. All Sable ever did was try to steer people in the direction of more reasonable priced and proven foods while Tony actually flat out tells people they don't need to own a dog if they don't feed Orijen, calls them names, will call you out on your job (But wont reveal his "secret job"), ect. Talk about someone who works for a food company....Sable recommended a LOT of foods, one of which I wouldn't have known about without him and I now feed and love. Tony pushes Orijen as Gods gift to dogs. If I had to pick who works for a food company, I'd pick Tony.  I'll be nice and refrain from saying who I'd prefer to see banned too.


----------



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I do not think that Orijen, or any other food for that matter, guarantees a long and healthy life for a dog. However, I do feel that trying to feed food that is nutritionally appropriate for dogs can go a long way. That being said, I'm a college kid; I don't have a lot of money. I am fortunate to have a great job in the summer and thus can afford to feed Sasha the foods that I prefer for her. However, if I couldn't for some reason, then I would buy her whatever I could afford, and she would still be loved and cared about and that's what's most important.


:thumbup: Much better post. Many would cringe at what I feed my dogs as a base.  But it's a proven, good quality food even if it doesn't read too pretty. It's also within my budget. On the other hand, I do feed a LOT of raw and canned food along with tablescraps. So my dogs get a huge variety in food which I have no doubt in my mind is the reason I've always had healthy dogs who thrived.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

pm me some of the rumors, innuendo, speculation and
unsubstantiated opinions (i like the sound of that) from that
site.



GrammaD said:


> I have and I wonder daily how the woman who runs it has avoided being sued.
> 
> There is little "truth" on that site. Just a lot of rumor, innuendo, speculation, and unsubstantiated opinion posing as fact.
> 
> The style reminds me of someone......


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> :thumbup: Much better post. Many would cringe at what I feed my dogs as a base.  But it's a proven, good quality food even if it doesn't read too pretty. It's also within my budget. On the other hand, I do feed a LOT of raw and canned food along with tablescraps. So my dogs get a huge variety in food which I have no doubt in my mind is the reason I've always had healthy dogs who thrived.


Thanks  I stand by my original post, but I do not always put things in the most sensitive way nor do I generally try to explain what I mean when I say them because A) I am not easily offended and thus do not worry about other people being offended and B) I am constantly running a crazy schedule and thus am usually writing in a hurry. For the record, I wouldn't cringe at knowing what you fed most likely because as I said earlier, it's not my dog. Also, I don't know your life situation, I don't know what information you have that is giving you the idea that whatever it is is proven (not saying it's not just saying if I don't know then how could I possibly judge), and most importantly back to point one, it's not my dog. Sasha was on Purina....something...can't remember what exactly...when I first got her and when I switched her to TOTW her coat was so much healthier, her poops were smaller, she had almost zero gas issues, and overall seemed to thrive. This made sense to me based on the ingredients and a dog's dietary needs, so I kept her on it. If you don't want to or can't pay for food that price, and think your dogs do fine on whatever you have them on, then they're your dogs and it's your call. 

I laughed about the table scraps lol I feed some table scraps when it's just me and her, but usually not a lot because I don't usually eat more than once a day and usually when I do eat it is junk that is either really bad for her (and not real good for me for that matter) or she just plain old doesn't need to eat again, as she is kind of a glutton. I laughed though because since we are living with my mom in the summer she gets an inordinate amount of table scraps. Most of it is meat but some of it is just "Oh Grammy thinks you're so cute when you give her the hungry eyes that you just have to have a snack." This combined with the fact that Sasha has been sedentary for the past two months has made her lose some of her girlish figure lol!!! If given her choice of foods I guarantee you Sasha would pick a diet of exclusively table scraps.


----------



## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> pm me some of the rumors, innuendo, speculation and
> unsubstantiated opinions (i like the sound of that) from that
> site.


The entire basis of the website is BS. She claims that ethoxyquin gave her dog bone cancer. She claims that dog foods have a "shelf life" of 25 years because of preservatives that are "killing pets." It is complete nutbar territory, imo. No science to back up anything she says, just "so and so said that......"


----------



## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

Here's my take on Orijen and the other brands of ultra expensive ($70+ for a 30lb bag) kibble. I'm not a canine nutrition expert by any means, and a lot of this post is based on my opinion, but I have done a lot of research on the quality of ingredients in human food and I have that background to relate to. 

Just because the ingredients sound/seem really healthy and high quality when listed out does not mean that they are. 

Natural, Human Grade, Organic Dog Food: Really? | The Bark

That is one of many links discussing this. Now it appears AAFCO has defined human grade as "edible by humans". However, just because something is human grade does not make it top quality. There is a lot of absolute garbage that humans put in their bodies, and what is defined as human grade meat I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole (I am very picky about the meat that I purchase). When you are feeding kibble you have to face the facts that even foods like Orijen are not 100% healthy. 

IMO Orijen's supposed health benefits are not worth the 60%+ increase (66% more expensive than what I feed) in cost over other brands that sell quality foods. I have been penalized on dog forums for not feeding this or other more expensive equivalents and quite frankly, it's really unfortunate. I know so many dogs that had diarrhea with Orijen and I know a dog that had more health problems than you can count after being raised for ten years on the stuff (good quality breeder, too). 

Buying ANY brand of dog food does not guarantee you a healthy dog and you are not guaranteed an unhealthy dog if you don't buy the most expensive kind of kibble. To any newbies reading this thread, buy the best you can comfortably afford to feed and don't look back, ever. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to pay 60% more per month or your dog will become "unhealthy". Different dogs do well on different food. Find out what works for you in your budget and stick to it. 

I got a sampler of Orijen kibble from my pet food store to try when I was experimenting with different foods. Viking actually turned his nose up to it and wouldn't eat it. 

If I could afford to feed a better quality food, I'd be feeding raw, hands down. I wouldn't switch to a "higher quality" processed food because it would actually cost less to feed raw (which can be much better for most dogs, but, like Orijen, raw may disagree with certain dogs). Put it this way: you can buy the most expensive, organic frozen microwaveable dinners you can buy, but in reality it'd be cheaper to buy fresh produce and meat and make healthier meals yourself. Organic or not, frozen food (and kibble) is still processed. 

Don't let anyone pressure you into feeding Acana/Orijen/TotW if you don't feel you can afford it, and likewise, don't let anyone make you feel guilty for feeding those foods _if your dog does well on them_. We are all trying to feed the best we can afford to, and we need to stop guilting each other into feeling terrible just because of what we feed.


----------



## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

ladyfreckles said:


> ........To any newbies reading this thread, buy the best you can comfortably afford to feed and don't look back, ever. Don't let anyone tell you that you need to pay 60% more per month or your dog will become "unhealthy". Different dogs do well on different food. Find out what works for you in your budget and stick to it.........
> 
> ..... We are all trying to feed the best we can afford to, and we need to stop guilting each other into feeling terrible just because of what we feed.


:toasting:


Thank you.


----------



## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> Here's my take on Orijen and the other brands of ultra expensive ($70+ for a 30lb bag) kibble. I'm not a canine nutrition expert by any means, and a lot of this post is based on my opinion, but I have done a lot of research on the quality of ingredients in human food and I have that background to relate to.
> 
> Just because the ingredients sound/seem really healthy and high quality when listed out does not mean that they are.
> 
> ...


 TOTW is $ 43 for 30 pounds at my supplier, Orejen is $70 for 25 pounds big difference.


----------



## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

TotW is another food that is commonly pushed on people, which is why it was mentioned. They also have some very expensive flavors that go up there in price. I brought it up because I'm not the only person who has had a dog not do well on it.


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> TotW is another food that is commonly pushed on people, which is why it was mentioned. *They also have some very expensive flavors that go up there in price*. I brought it up because I'm not the only person who has had a dog not do well on it.


I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I rotate the flavor of Sasha's food and (depending on where I go to buy it) always pay between $40-$43. Not the cheapest I guess, but not too much more than what I was paying for Purina.


----------



## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I rotate the flavor of Sasha's food and (depending on where I go to buy it) always pay between $40-$43. Not the cheapest I guess, but not too much more than what I was paying for Purina.


I don't know the exact flavor but I've seen it for $60 at the pet shop. Also not sure why it matters which one. CalNat (which I feed) has some more expensive stuff too.


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> I don't know the exact flavor but I've seen it for $60 at the pet shop. Also not sure why it matters which one. CalNat (which I feed) has some more expensive stuff too.



That's interesting...I guess I've never seen that(and I'm pretty sure I've fed every flavor), and I would notice because I would have walked that right back to the shelf and purchased a different flavor lol!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Kyad02 said:


> TOTW is $ 43 for 30 pounds at my supplier, Orijen is $70 for 25 pounds big difference.



Orijen is more expensive, but you have to look at more than just the $/pound. Because Orijen adult has 460kcal/cup and 38% protein/17% fat, where TOTW high prarie, is only 364kcal/cup, with 28% protein, and 17%fat. 

So it stands to figure, you will feed less Orijen to get the same results. If the formula works for you, the extra expense is worth it. But you have to look deeper than the bottom line. If you can feed 3 bags x 70 or 4 bags x 43, that $210 as opposed to $172, which is not as bad as $280 to $172. 

Just sayin'. I do not feed orijen, and would probably do homemade first, but that's just me. If it works, it is worth it.


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

selzer said:


> Orijen is more expensive, but you have to look at more than just the $/pound. Because Orijen adult has 460kcal/cup and 38% protein/17% fat, where TOTW high prarie, is only 364kcal/cup, with 28% protein, and 17%fat.
> 
> So it stands to figure, you will feed less Orijen to get the same results. If the formula works for you, the extra expense is worth it. But you have to look deeper than the bottom line. If you can feed 3 bags x 70 or 4 bags x 43, that $210 as opposed to $172, which is not as bad as $280 to $172.
> 
> Just sayin'. I do not feed orijen, and would probably do homemade first, but that's just me. If it works, it is worth it.


I'm not trying to argue, as I am admittedly horrible at math, but I did the calculations and I feed Sasha 2 cups a day of TOTW; if I was feeding Orijen and wanted to feed the same number of calories I would be feeding 1 1/2. That doesn't seem like much difference to me, as far as what it will cost me. A bag of TOTW cost me roughly $22 per month because a bag will last me about two months. I imagine a half a cup difference wouldn't be that much difference, though I could be completely wrong (Like I said, not so great with the math). However, if I'm right, the cost would be around $10 more a month, which while that isn't a ton, that's about $120 extra a year. I suppose in reality that isn't a lot; I'm just probably looking at this through poor college kid glasses lol!

I'm with you though, I'd rather feed RAW if I was going to pay that much. I don't think I could do homemade; I don't even cook for myself very often haha.


----------



## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

selzer said:


> Orijen is more expensive, but you have to look at more than just the $/pound. Because Orijen adult has 460kcal/cup and 38% protein/17% fat, where TOTW high prarie, is only 364kcal/cup, with 28% protein, and 17%fat.
> 
> So it stands to figure, you will feed less Orijen to get the same results. If the formula works for you, the extra expense is worth it. But you have to look deeper than the bottom line. If you can feed 3 bags x 70 or 4 bags x 43, that $210 as opposed to $172, which is not as bad as $280 to $172.
> 
> Just sayin'. I do not feed orijen, and would probably do homemade first, but that's just me. If it works, it is worth it.


Thats a lot of protein,depends on how active your dog is .My boy Rex is on Innova Prime after switching from TOTW and I feed him 1 .75 cups instead of 2 twice a day. I also add about a quarter pound of raw chop meat once a day. His poops were better on TOTW. My pup gets two cups of Solid Gold Wolf Cub twice a day plus the chop meat. His poops are hard and only once or twice a day. Don't forget TOTW has 5 pounds more in the bag to begin with So you would be comparing 120 pounds vs 75 pounds for the Orijen. I doubt you would use that much less kibble . My boys would look at me like "ok thanks for the snack,now wheres my dinner ?" LOL


----------



## Kyad02 (Oct 21, 2011)

ladyfreckles said:


> I don't know the exact flavor but I've seen it for $60 at the pet shop. Also not sure why it matters which one. CalNat (which I feed) has some more expensive stuff too.


 You are getting robbed if they charge you $60 a bag for TOTW. And all varieties are the same price. I pay $43 and tht most I have seen it for here in NJ is $47


----------

