# Teaching Stay



## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

I've been searching the forum for a few days and trying some techniques but having so much trouble. 

Once he sits he is immediately back up, and the same with down. We are in basic obedience now and supposed to have a good "stay" by next week.

the way the instructor taught was a sit at the side, then a down, then put your hand in front of their face while saying "stay" and walk around the front of them, and then back up continuing to keep your hand in front of their nose and keep saying stay. 

He doesn't even stay down long enough for me to get 1/2 of a step toward the front of him!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Basically, you need to make the stay itself rewarding. He already knows assuming the position is rewarding (I assume he gets treats/praise when doing this) and this is actually part of the problem... he'll bounce up again in order to get another opportunity to earn a treat by assuming a position again. So now he needs to learn that holding it is just as rewarding.

When first starting out, I do this by continuing to feed treats as the dog holds position. Random intervals and random times (so I might ask him to stay for 1 second, then 10, then 5, then 15, etc...). At first, I may be feeding rapid fire in order to keep the dog in position, then once he gets the idea gradually slow down the feeding, with more time in between treats.

Gradually once the time intervals are extended in terms of how long he will stay in position, then you can start adding distance between yourself and the dog, and distractions (and you moving a circle around him is a distraction). Just make sure to only focus on one element each exercise; time OR distance OR distraction. Not 2 or 3 at once. And time is the first one he needs to learn.

It also helps greatly to have a release word to cue the dog when he can get up (so he learns to hold position until released) and make sure to give the release before he can break on his own. 

I don't use a stay command, I just teach the dogs to hold position until released or told to do something else. But if I were to use a stay command I wouldn't be saying it until the dog already had the concept. Training works best if you just focus on shaping the behavior you want and reinforcing it first, and then wait to add in word association until the dog understands the concept of the exercise. So I wouldn't worry about telling him to stay at this point, since the word won't mean anything to him. Just work on getting him to hold it. If you say anyting, I'd just reinforce the sit/down command, telling him "good sit/down" while he's holding position.


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

Thank you sooo much that makes a lot of sense!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a thread that talks about teaching stay: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1316109&page=1#Post1316109

I've used the method I describe in that thread with 4 dogs so far, and it has never failed to work beautifully - we typically have one of the best stays in class, and Halo has always been the "stay star" in her classes.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The vid of the lovely mali learning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bJqTtsfbhU&feature=related


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

Your body language is important to. When I first taught my dog to stay, she was in front of me, and I had the "palm out" hand signal. I myself would freeze along with Glory. Then feed her a treat. I would move maybe a step to the left or right in a "robotic, frozen" sort of way. Then feed her a treat. Between my "freezing" body language and my palm out, she got the idea to stay put. If she squirmed a little, I'd say "ah ah!" Then I would "release" by saying our release word and jumping up all loose and crazy, so she would get that it was time to get up and stop staying. So.....body language is important, mainly in the beginning.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

How does it work with not adding a stay command Chris? I know almost all Sch people don't say a stay word, except for me, at least that I know of. One reason I think there would be conflict with that is the down with recall, in akc. If you say platz and then hier, wouldn't that be confusing because you didn't say your release word first? That's why I think it would be easier to use a stay command. 
Just curious to know why.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

It's a release OR being told to do something different. A recall constitutes that "something else", as does telling the dog to sit on the pick up from the long down, telling the dog under a heel command to do a retrieve or send out. AKC is no different from SchH. In SchH you don't first release the dog from the Down in Motion and then recall, you just recall. 

There is no confusion at all on the dog's part, since a new command overrides the previous one. I actually think using a stay command is more confusing for the dog because they don't think well in the abstract and stay has the very abstract meaning of "don't move from position" and depending on what the position is, that's different things. Whereas sit just means sit, and down just means down and they never mean anything different.


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone. I have read all of your posts and video we worked on it more tonight. I do feel like we are starting to make a little progress, and I look forward to seeing how we do tomorrow, too.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when i taught my dog to stay i had him sit in front
of me. i would say stay while giving him the hand signal to stay.
i would take one step back. when he moved forward i would make 
him sit again in front of me and take one step back.

one step lead to 2 steps and so on. then i started walking out of sight. indoors i would walk into another room and make noise.
outdoors i would hide behind the car, trees, walk around to the side of the house just out of view.

once he got stay whether it was sitting or laying down
i would approach him. sometimes i would walk up to him untill
i touched him. then i would circle him, step over him, straddle
him and walk back and forth over him.

once he got that i use to have my neighbors pull on his leash
and call him after i told him to stay. i would tell him to stay
then go and hide and have my neighbors try to move him.

i use to do the same thing in front of the local store/stores.
i would ask a stranger if they willl help me train my dog for a minute. i've never had anybody say no. i would put my dog in a stay and ask the stranger to call him by his name and then go over and pick up his leash and give it a little tug.

i basically used this same method in teaching my dog not exit
the car when the door is open.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

I always look forward to reading your posts on training techniques, Doggie Dad!


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

Yup, baby steps.

I teach my dogs a release word at the same time. Many don't.

But it can take a while, starting without moving yourself at all and just adding time, then just starting to take a step and rewarding for staying, then one step, then two, then four, then ten.

Then doing it for just a few steps away in many locations.

Then doing it in many places with just a few steps away with small distraction, working up to big distractions

Then doing while out of sight for a just a second, building up to being out of sight for minutes.

Then doing it when out of sight with distractions..

Any time the dog has trouble, go back to the point where he didn't and take yet smaller steps.

It's a lot of work and practice to get a dog to stay solidly no matter what even if it can't see you.


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