# Any feedback on these TN breeders?



## smdaigle

I am looking for a new male German Shepherd puppy. This will be my 4th German Shepherd so I've got some experience with the breed. I am primarily interested in German working lines although I am not committed to doing more than basic and advanced obedience training. 

I am very intrigued with schutzhund training and if I can find a good club I may pursue that as well. This dog's primary function will be as a pet and companion. We already have a 4 year old female and she is taken on long walks daily (weather permitting) and will chase a tennis ball until your arm falls off. My husband and I are empty nesters - still working but my husband comes home for lunch every day and occasionally works from home. We've done the puppy thing and know what we are getting into!

My biggest concern is to get a healthy dog with good temperment. 

Now for the fun part - here are some breeders that we're considering. I would appreciate your feedback if you have any experience with them.

Mountainside Shepherd - German Shepherd Puppies
Home - Appleridge Obedience Family German Shepherds Puppies GSD Breeder Cleveland TN Behavioralist Chattanooga Knoxville Purebred Trainer German Shepherds For Sale Tennessee USA Canada 

(I think the Appleridge dogs are more show dogs if they're good pets it might be ok)

There are a few others as well but I already have some experience with them.

Thanks!


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## atravis

I'd just like to say a few things about Appleridge, if I may.

They fell under my radar a while back, when discussing "good" American line breeders. The type is nothing I fancy at all, BUT when I was shown this kennel, as well as given a bit of incite into their long list of achievements, it'd be a lie to say I wasn't very impressed. 

Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, dogs from this kennel are actually DOING things outside of the show ring. Lots of dogs with their herding certifications, LOTS with obedience titles, as well as SAR, and even some sch BHs. 

Also important, is that these people KNOW their lines. They've been cultivating them, actually holding dogs back and using their own dogs. So many kennels today simply import import import, or get a dog from a popular breeder and breed, without ever actually taking the time to develop THEIR line. And yet so many of these people claim their dogs to be "excellent producers". How can they ever really know that unless they're actually holding back their own offspring, and watching what happens from generation to generation? Maybe they did produce some nice offspring, but what about their grandsons/daughters? What happens BEYOND the first generation? I have a lot of respect for Appleridge because of this.

Lastly, as far as Amero dogs go, these dogs are refreshingly moderate in structure. Some of them I don't care much for, but they really do seem to be getting on board with this new wave of American breeders who are realizing that their dogs are too extreme, and actually doing something to correct it.

Would one of their dogs likely make it to a Sch3? Probably not. But I'm sure they would be a FANTASTIC animal in many other respects.


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## GSDElsa

Highly recommend von Tajgetosz. All their dogs are HOT and Gabor is consistently competing at high levels in the SchH world. They have a reputation for pairing dogs with homes very well and will say "no" if there isn't a dog in the litter they don't think will be a good fit. 
von Tajgetosz German Shepherds - German Shepherd Breeders


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## GSDElsa

Ha, just realized you were just asking for feedback on the ones you listed, not additional suggestions. Sorry! But check Sue and Gabor's kennel out if you haven't already!


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## GSD Fan

smdaigle, I replied to your pm.  You guys, I recommended smdaigle check out this breeder:

Hillview Kennels - German Shepherd Breeders

smdaigle, I hope you don't mind me telling them that. If I were looking to get a GSD, that's a breeder that'd I'd be asking these guys about.

So, I, and maybe smdaigle, would appreciate if you guys gave feedback on the breeder above. For me, the future, and smdaigle now.


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## GSDElsa

I looked them up before. This bothered me about Hillview:
*Q. Do you train and compete with your dogs?*

A. We get this question quite often. Yes, we train our dogs every day; it is a way of life around our house. We have titled dogs in the past, but we came to the realization that we had better dogs than we were trainers. This is a big misconception in the dog world that to be a good breeder you have to be a great trainer. 

I've played devil's advocate and justified a breeder not competing their own dogs, but ultimately it is not my cup of tea. It might not bother some people, but I want a breeder that is capable of doing both. It doesn't make sense to me to say you are the one that trains them every day, but that you aren't good enough to compete? Then you aren't good enough to train them, either, IMO. But everyone has different opinions on this front. They also seem to buy a lot of their dogs already titled which I personally like even less.

And a working line kennel STARTING at $2000 for litters is ridiculously steep.


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## smdaigle

GSDElsa said:


> Highly recommend von Tajgetosz. All their dogs are HOT and Gabor is consistently competing at high levels in the SchH world. They have a reputation for pairing dogs with homes very well and will say "no" if there isn't a dog in the litter they don't think will be a good fit.
> von Tajgetosz German Shepherds - German Shepherd Breeders


Thank you for the recommendation. I've already been in contact with Sue and am going to look at one of their puppies this weekend. It's an older puppy but that offers certain advantages - especially this time of year!


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## smdaigle

GSD Fan said:


> smdaigle, I replied to your pm.  You guys, I recommended smdaigle check out this breeder:
> 
> Hillview Kennels - German Shepherd Breeders
> 
> smdaigle, I hope you don't mind me telling them that. If I were looking to get a GSD, that's a breeder that'd I'd be asking these guys about.
> 
> So, I, and maybe smdaigle, would appreciate if you guys gave feedback on the breeder above. For me, the future, and smdaigle now.


No problem! I think I'll probably give them a call. I've looked at their website a few times and am interested.


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## smdaigle

GSDElsa said:


> I've played devil's advocate and justified a breeder not competing their own dogs, but ultimately it is not my cup of tea. It might not bother some people, but I want a breeder that is capable of doing both. It doesn't make sense to me to say you are the one that trains them every day, but that you aren't good enough to compete? Then you aren't good enough to train them, either, IMO. But everyone has different opinions on this front. They also seem to buy a lot of their dogs already titled which I personally like even less.
> 
> And a working line kennel STARTING at $2000 for litters is ridiculously steep.


I caught those things too and wondered. I've never worked or competed with a dog but it seems that the majority of breeders do. I still may give them a call.


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## smdaigle

atravis said:


> I'd just like to say a few things about Appleridge, if I may. . .
> 
> ...
> Would one of their dogs likely make it to a Sch3? Probably not. But I'm sure they would be a FANTASTIC animal in many other respects.


Thank you for the feedback. This breeder is closest to us in proximity. I plan to go by there soon to meet them and see their dogs. At the very least I will probably go there for obedience training.

Regarding Sch3 . . . the better question is whether I would ever make it that far!! Rank novice here!!


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## cliffson1

Hillview Kennel has a stud that I definitely want to breed or get a female out of.


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## cliffson1

Also, Camelot Kennels in Tennessee has some nice dogs, IMO.


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## robinhuerta

Cliff...I like Hillview also....*Atze* is a dog that "turns my head"....*Hoss* is also a double looker...JMO
Robin


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## Hunther's Dad

smdaigle said:


> Thank you for the feedback. This breeder is closest to us in proximity. I plan to go by there soon to meet them and see their dogs. At the very least I will probably go there for obedience training.
> 
> *Regarding Sch3 . . . the better question is whether I would ever make it that far!! Rank novice here!!*


Schutzhund I, in my opinion, is the hardest one to get! 

You have a dog and handler/trainer that know nothing about the sport, and with no experience. (That's a generalized "you," not "you" in particular.  ) You both learn how to train in tracking, obedience and protection. For a Schutzhund II, there's a track laid by a stranger, one more obedience exercise and one more protection exercise, plus a search of four blinds. For a Schutzhund III, the track's longer and older, the obedience exercise is modified, and there are six blinds to search.

By the time you get your SchH I, a lot of the work has been done.


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## GSDElsa

smdaigle said:


> I caught those things too and wondered. I've never worked or competed with a dog but it seems that the majority of breeders do. I still may give them a call.


Yeah, some people don't care. It's just a personally sticking point with me as there are a LOT of good breeders that do it all themselves from when they get the dogs as puppies. I like seeing people get their hands dirty from start to finish.

But as far as pedigrees, titles, health testing and all that jazz Hillview definitely has it. No doubt they produce some nice dogs. It will just be up to you to decide what individuals qualities of the breeder are most important to you.


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## smdaigle

cliffson1 said:


> Also, Camelot Kennels in Tennessee has some nice dogs, IMO.


Thanks! I ran across their website last night and am going to give them a call today.


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## smdaigle

GSDElsa said:


> Yeah, some people don't care. It's just a personally sticking point with me as there are a LOT of good breeders that do it all themselves from when they get the dogs as puppies. I like seeing people get their hands dirty from start to finish.
> 
> But as far as pedigrees, titles, health testing and all that jazz Hillview definitely has it. No doubt they produce some nice dogs. It will just be up to you to decide what individuals qualities of the breeder are most important to you.


Thanks! I may give them a call. The biggest drawback to me is the puppy price. I know first-hand that $2000 isn't much considering what you spend on a dog over the course of it's life. I also know that $2000 is a drop in the bucket for a healthy dog since an unhealthy dog can rack up that much in vet bills in less than a year (First 2 GSDs were from BYBs - great dogs but lots of minor problems and one or 2 major ones Good hips though!)! Having said all this . . . I still have to contend with DH on the $$ issue!


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## GSDBESTK9

Sue and Gabor's are my only recommendation, you won't go wrong with them.


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## cliffson1

I agree Robin...Atze is da Bomb!! 
But for OP stated desires, most of the recommended Kennels will be fine!!


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## bocron

GSDElsa said:


> I've played devil's advocate and justified a breeder not competing their own dogs, but ultimately it is not my cup of tea. It might not bother some people, but I want a breeder that is capable of doing both. It doesn't make sense to me to say you are the one that trains them every day, but that you aren't good enough to compete? Then you aren't good enough to train them, either, IMO. But everyone has different opinions on this front. They also seem to buy a lot of their dogs already titled which I personally like even less.
> 
> And a working line kennel STARTING at $2000 for litters is ridiculously steep.


Playing the other devil's advocate here. From what I recall, Carrie did compete originally with her own dogs, but realized that she needed to turn it over to someone who enjoys it more (the trial part). I get that, I used to work with horses and realized that I loved the daily foundation work, but I hated showing. She has a few handlers who have been training and trialing for her, but doesn't trial herself anymore. Although, she's happy to handle the dogs in seminars and such (which is where I first met her).
We have bought 3 dogs from Hillview in recent years, and a member in our DVG club has another. I currently have a deposit on a pup(Atze x Baghira) to be born in less than a week(I hope). Oh, plus another female is with a friend in NC. If nothing else, the temperament is remarkable on all the dogs we have personally worked with. The male my husband has currently(just got him in September) is probably one of the most impressive to him in his training career. My husband has raised and titled multiple dogs to SchH3 and rarely gets this excited from the get go, but he is totally psyched about competing with him. The main thing I like about their dogs is that they really are house dogs and great companions first and foremost. When we got Ice(Falk x Baghira) back in September, it was obvious he was totally a house dog, very unlike some of the dogs we've gotten in the past that you could tell had never stepped foot in a house in their lives. The girl pup we have (Hoss x Berna) is a total love but also **** on wheels, she just makes us smile and we look forward to watching her mature.
I'm sure $2000 seems a bit pricey, but in our case we have decided totally worth it. Not that I won't ever look at another breeders dogs, as a matter of fact I almost bought a different female recently but the timing was off. But I know that with Hillview, I'm confident in what I'm going to get.
Not trying to sound like a cheerleader here, just thought I'd post our experience.


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## smdaigle

bocron said:


> . . . We have bought 3 dogs from Hillview in recent years, and a member in our DVG club has another. I currently have a deposit on a pup(Atze x Baghira) to be born in less than a week(I hope). Oh, plus another female is with a friend in NC. If nothing else, the temperament is remarkable on all the dogs we have personally worked with. The male my husband has currently(just got him in September) is probably one of the most impressive to him in his training career. My husband has raised and titled multiple dogs to SchH3 and rarely gets this excited from the get go, but he is totally psyched about competing with him. The main thing I like about their dogs is that they really are house dogs and great companions first and foremost. When we got Ice(Falk x Baghira) back in September, it was obvious he was totally a house dog, very unlike some of the dogs we've gotten in the past that you could tell had never stepped foot in a house in their lives. The girl pup we have (Hoss x Berna) is a total love but also **** on wheels, she just makes us smile and we look forward to watching her mature.
> I'm sure $2000 seems a bit pricey, but in our case we have decided totally worth it. Not that I won't ever look at another breeders dogs, as a matter of fact I almost bought a different female recently but the timing was off. But I know that with Hillview, I'm confident in what I'm going to get.
> Not trying to sound like a cheerleader here, just thought I'd post our experience.


Cheerleading is welcome - you've added some great info on Hillview! Our dogs are definitely house dogs and to a certain extent I'm wondering whether I'm really ready for this . . . especially at Christmas time! However the truth is I'm far more interested in finding a puppy right now than I am in decorating my house or buying Christmas gifts! 

Anyway - I'm going to look at Hillview some more - if not for this puppy maybe for next time. Many of our friends who are new empty nesters also say they are done with pets. Not us, our nest is freshly emptied of children but I don't know how we'd manage without dogs!


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## Emoore

smdaigle said:


> However the truth is I'm far more interested in finding a puppy right now than I am in decorating my house or buying Christmas gifts!


Ha! I have to say I'm always more interested in puppies than I am in decorating or buying gifts.


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## smdaigle

Here is one more breeder that is not too far away . . . any feedback??

Happy Valley Kennel - German Shepherd. Country.

Thanks!


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## Emoore

smdaigle said:


> Here is one more breeder that is not too far away . . . any feedback??
> 
> Happy Valley Kennel - German Shepherd. Country.
> 
> Thanks!


The name reminds me of Daisy Hill Puppy Farm, where Snoopy came from.  I don't see any big red flags on that breeder's website. They are doing some mixing of the lines which can be a good or bad thing depending on the individual dogs and who's doing the mixing.


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## Smithie86

Krista is another that trains and competes to a SCH3 level (local and national) with her dogs herself. You can google her and see what she has actually done on the field in titling dogs.

We bred Fannie to Berlin (Krista’s HOT SCH 3 male, WUSV alternate). We look for strong temperament and healthy; no disqualifying faults, no physical issues and/or allergies. We were looking for a real dog with a strong pedigree. We got that in Berlin with our 4-4 Yoschy breeding (Kiera von Tajgetosz). Extremely strong and powerful in the work, strong presence on the field. Joy to watch on all phases.
Berlin will be koer'd in the spring


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## holland

She's going to the WUSV-and she comes up with Happy Valley for a kennel name? Guess thats what happens when you go to the WUSV-the beagle in my rally class is a joy to watch -I seem to be saying that a lot-don't underestimate Snoopy


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## cliffson1

Was talking to a friend who lives in Ala. and trains with the big boys two nights ago. He keeps me up on the dogs in the SE that I haven't seen. We were talking extensively about Atze and Hillview and also about Gabor and his dogs. Both of these breeders know genetics well and have the dogs they have because they understand what they need to maintain the highest level of working dog. Atze is known for producing fantastic temperament in his progeny or he wouldn't be on my list of studs to use. I came very close to getting a puppy from Enzo and Sue/Gabor...the timing just wasn't right. These are excellent breeders!!


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## smdaigle

Smithie86 said:


> Krista is another that trains and competes to a SCH3 level (local and national) with her dogs herself. You can google her and see what she has actually done on the field in titling dogs.
> 
> We bred Fannie to Berlin (Krista’s HOT SCH 3 male, WUSV alternate). We look for strong temperament and healthy; no disqualifying faults, no physical issues and/or allergies. We were looking for a real dog with a strong pedigree. We got that in Berlin with our 4-4 Yoschy breeding (Kiera von Tajgetosz). Extremely strong and powerful in the work, strong presence on the field. Joy to watch on all phases.
> Berlin will be koer'd in the spring


Hi Sue,

Now I have to go find out what "koer'd" means! My son is in the Army and I've been doing an admirable job of learning the ARMY's TLAs and now I'm knee deep in a new world of acronyms and abbreviations! Anyway, thank you for the feedback on Happy Valley Kennel. I've exchanged email with Krista but haven't talked to her yet. It sounds like middle TN has some strong breeders in your program, Happy Valley and Hillside!


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## Smithie86

Koer is a show rating and breed survey.  Requires a working title (SCH or Herding), AD (endurance title) and hip certification.

Dog receives a show rating: G = good, SG = very good, V = excellent. The show rating is based not only on structure and movement, but on specific physical characteristics. You could have a dog that moves well, very nice structure and would normally get a SG rating, but because she is missing two significant teeth, she automatically goes to a G rating.

The breed survey is two part. The judge asseses literally every inch of the dog, commenting on structure, eyes, angulation, feet, etc. The bite work is attack out of the blind and a long bite. The ratings are KK1 and KK2. Again, the rating is influenced by structure as well as physical disqualifers.

The female noted above with the two missing teeth at a G rating would only get a KK2, due to the teeth. Even if the work was super.

Hope that makes sense...


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## smdaigle

Smithie86 said:


> Koer is a show rating and breed survey. Requires a working title (SCH or Herding), AD (endurance title) and hip certification.
> 
> Dog receives a show rating: G = good, SG = very good, V = excellent. The show rating is based not only on structure and movement, but on specific physical characteristics. You could have a dog that moves well, very nice structure and would normally get a SG rating, but because she is missing two significant teeth, she automatically goes to a G rating.
> 
> The breed survey is two part. The judge asseses literally every inch of the dog, commenting on structure, eyes, angulation, feet, etc. The bite work is attack out of the blind and a long bite. The ratings are KK1 and KK2. Again, the rating is influenced by structure as well as physical disqualifers.
> 
> The female noted above with the two missing teeth at a G rating would only get a KK2, due to the teeth. Even if the work was super.
> 
> Hope that makes sense...


Yes it makes a lot of sense. I've been doing a fair amount of reading to help me understand why getting a puppy from a titled dog makes sense. So in a very simplistic summary, would I be correct in saying that this is just further insurance that the puppy will be healthy and capable of working and (if breeding is the goal) also being a good breeder?

I've been trying to explain some of this to my husband (as best I can). This dog will be my dog (hopefully the dog will understand that too - he has what I call "dog karma" and all dogs seem to gravitate to him over me and anyone else in the room!) and my husband isn't concerned about how I make my decision but I'd like him to know why I'm spending the time looking and asking a blue-million questions. 

Our first 2 GSDs were from BYBs and while they were great pets and we knew we weren't going to breed them, they had a whole slew of health related problems - most were probably genetic according to our vets (who probably sent all their kids to college on what we spent taking care of all of these major/minor issues). Our 3rd GSD is from a reputable breeder and the only time she goes to the vet is for routine shots/exams and to board. It's a world of difference.

I'm also extremely interested in getting a dog that has the temperament (hopefully spelled right this time) that matches me. I'm not sure I want to do full out Schtzhund training but I definitely want to do obedience work. I watched a member's video of a young lady doing part of a Schtzhund trial (the part with no bite work, just walking, recalls and 2 jumps to retrieve something). THAT's what I want to be able to do with my dog and I want a dog that is intelligent enough to be able to do it (with lots of work and training of course). And then after we get done "working" and playing I want the dog to put it's head in my lap and let me scratch his ears and belly!


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## Smithie86

The thing on the AD, show rating and breed survey is that is some work, but most everyone can do it. It is a little bit of time and exercise, but even people that are not professional trainers or experienced do this part of the process.


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## smdaigle

Thanks to everyone for their feedback . . . my new puppy is on his way to me right now - my husband went to get him. We decided on a 9 month old male from Happy Valley Kennel. I was able to spend half a day watching the breeder and her club work with their dogs and I was also able to work with Ridley (his new name) a little before we had to leave that day. Everything checks out beautifully and now we just have to take our time helping Ridley get acclimated to his new home and family. Find me on the puppy boards if you want to know how that goes!

Thanks again for all of your feedback!


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