# Breeding and EPI



## mackico (Jan 16, 2013)

Hi there. I'm a relatively new member. I have a German Shepherd called Archie. He's 5 and neutered, so he will NEVER be bred from.

Archie has recently been diagnosed with EPI.

I'm trying to find reliable information to give to his breeders about why they shouldn't breed from his brothers/sisters/parents.

His breeders are absolute ******** but they're registered with the NZKC and sell their puppies all over New Zealand, so I'd really like all of the dogs from Archie's line to stop producing puppies. Archie also has severe bilateral arthritis in his elbows/elbow dysplasia and hip dysplasia, but when I informed the breeders of this they said that no other dogs from Archie's litter were having any issues. They also continued to breed both parent dogs, and some of Archie's half-siblings.

Anyway, I figure that if I can gather sufficient evidence about EPI dogs not being bred, maybe I can convince them to get some of Archie's line out of circulation.

Does anyone have any links to good research, maybe?


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

So sorry to hear about Archie 

The best group for EPI I have found is epi4dogs, lots of good info: Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

You can also go to your library and fill out an inter-library form for a copy of the following: *TOPICS IN COMPANION ANIMAL MEDICINE", Vol 27, No. 3, Aug 2012 *

It only cost me 10 cents per page and has really good info.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

mackico said:


> Hi there. I'm a relatively new member. I have a German Shepherd called Archie. He's 5 and neutered, so he will NEVER be bred from.
> 
> Archie has recently been diagnosed with EPI.
> 
> ...


If they are really the way you describe them, no amt of info will stop them. They're breeders, you'd think they'd try learning which dogs should be bred and which shouldn't. 
If they're not then nothing you show then will make a difference. You said you already tried telling them about hips and arthritis. Well, they will take your EPI research as just another 'attack' on their breeding practices. 

My opinion, of course.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

While the breeding pair that produced your dog should not be bred together again, it is not realistic to expect that people will remove every relative of a dog with EPI from a gene pool....

Say a female has 6 litters of 8 pups, and ONE pup - out of 46 has EPI...many of the females pups are sucessful at what ever sport in which the owners are involved...a high percentage of the progeny are rated normal hips and elbows....All in all, that female has a better production record than most.....

Unfortunately, you have to look at the bigger picture...if every dog who was related closely to a dog that was positive for hips or elbows or EPI or some other malady...and reputable breeders culled the whole family from breeding - there would be no breeding dogs left. Sad as it is, there is no way to do this....

If a dog produces multiple problem pups, as a sire or dam, with more than one breeding partner - then yes! Definitely that individual should be removed from breeding.

Sorry but this is a much more complex answer than you were looking for....

Lee


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

lalachka said:


> If they are really the way you describe them, no amt of info will stop them. They're breeders, you'd think they'd try learning which dogs should be bred and which shouldn't.
> If they're not then nothing you show then will make a difference. You said you already tried telling them about hips and arthritis. Well, they will take your EPI research as just another 'attack' on their breeding practices.
> 
> My opinion, of course.


That's pretty much been my experience. As soon as you bring up EPI you get nothing but silence. I feel horrible for the pups that end up with it. Taking care of an EPI dog takes time, lots of money and it can be heartbreaking at times


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Heidigsd said:


> That's pretty much been my experience. As soon as you bring up EPI you get nothing but silence. I feel horrible for the pups that end up with it. Taking care of an EPI dog takes time, lots of money and it can be heartbreaking at times


I have no experience with breeders at all, as with EPI. I just can't see a breeder listening to a customer? client? whatever you call them, about which dogs to breed and why 

If they're not researching and just breeding for money then they don't care about what they produce as much. If they ARE researching then they must've came to a conclusion that it's OK to breed these dogs. 

I can't see how anything the OP does will make a difference. 
However, I'm sorry he has to deal with EPI and all the other problems in his dog. I know how heartbreaking it is and I understand his desire to spare others from it.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

It's about letting breeders know what health issues they are producing, how else would they know if the owners don't provide this info?


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Heidigsd said:


> It's about letting breeders know what health issues they are producing, how else would they know if the owners don't provide this info?


Ohh. I didn't take it that way. I thought they knew and he wanted leverage to convince them to stop using the breeding pair along with all the relatives.


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