# Is this breeder right?



## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

So I have been talking to a breeder about a dog for my daughter, not a GSD. She wants to show in confirmation and then later agility. But she is a teenager and may very well outgrow that desire! Plus I do not know how expensive it is to show and title a confirmation dog!
This breeder has nice dogs and takes pride in her lines. I know she wants her dogs titled. I was upfront with her and said I could not promise that and gave her my reasons. She seemed okay with selling as a pet possible show home. 
We talked of payment and the pet dog would be $1800. She wants the dog to leave soon because all of his litter mates are leaving this weekend I guess. I explained I could not pay the entire sum right now and would have to make payments, she might be okay with that, how about I put it on a CC? I can AFTER my tax return comes through in the next week or so. But not by this weekend.
Hubby is military and we get paid Friday I could put a deposit down on him and pay the balance when the tax return comes. Then travel the 6 hours to come get him.
Now her co owner of the littler doesn't want to sell to us because we are military and what if we have to move and can't take the dog and what if it needs and emergency operation to save its life and we can't afford to do it.
I kind of understand and those are both valid points BUT isn't that MY problem? Shouldn't I be the one that determines if getting a puppy is right for me?
Maybe I am totally wrong and they are right I shouldn't have a dog!
Anybody in CA want a 13 week old GSD puppy?!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Slow down. Those are valid concerns for a breeder to have, IMO. Their responsibility isn't to the customer, it's to the dog. Good breeders go through a lot to ensure a good match for their pups.... and really, they're the ones that determine that, because they know the dogs better than the customer. And, customers are not always realistic about their expectations or capabilities. Which brings me to the other concern. 

The other concern is... you have a 13 week GSD and are hoping to get another puppy next week? Why doesn't your daughter work with the pup you have, dabble in showing and agility and see if she likes it, and then go from there?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

SARpup said:


> Now her co owner of the littler doesn't want to sell to us because we are military and what if we have to move and can't take the dog and what if it needs and emergency operation to save its life and we can't afford to do it.
> I kind of understand and those are both valid points BUT isn't that MY problem? Shouldn't I be the one that determines if getting a puppy is right for me?
> Maybe I am totally wrong and they are right I shouldn't have a dog!
> Anybody in CA want a 13 week old GSD puppy?!


Sadly, all of the things the co-breeder brought up are true in some respect. Breeders care about their dogs and their puppies, and if she does end up needing some emergency vet care and you can't afford it so you just let the dog pass even though it could survive and live a full and healthy life...it's kind of an avoidable problem if you do just sell that dog to someone that won't be as cash strapped.

It's not that you don't deserve a dog, but they have the right to sell to who they want and its not wrong to be a little worried when someone has problems paying for the upfront price of the dog. On top of that price, you realize there is probably a good $300-$400 of vetting in the first few months as well.

We've had a few military families that had to rehome dogs within months either due to finances or because they got moved to a base that doesn't allow dogs or finances got tight.

Just a warning...dogs are way more expensive than you can imagine.

Titling/training will cost a lot. A weekend of trialing will run you $80 minimum.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Yes I understand, I am just venting. 
My daughter has her heart set on the other breed, she has wanted one for years and we are finally settled enough that I felt okay getting one. The GSD puppy was a spur of the moment decision, he is a rescue.
She has been doing agility with a trainer for a few months now and has been working the trainers dog, I wanted to make sure she was committed before getting her a dog. She started handling class yesterday with some professional handlers/trainers and has been attending any shows I will take her to.
I completely understand the breeder has the right to put the dog where they feel most comfortable I just got frustrated after all that that the co breeder wont sell to military.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

SARpup said:


> Yes I understand, I am just venting.
> My daughter has her heart set on the other breed, she has wanted one for years and we are finally settled enough that I felt okay getting one. The GSD puppy was a spur of the moment decision, he is a rescue.
> She has been doing agility with a trainer for a few months now and has been working the trainers dog, I wanted to make sure she was committed before getting her a dog. She started handling class yesterday with some professional handlers/trainers and has been attending any shows I will take her to.
> I completely understand the breeder has the right to put the dog where they feel most comfortable I just got frustrated after all that that the co breeder wont sell to military.


I hear ya  The military bias stinks (been there)... a few bad apples always seem to ruin it for the responsible families. 

It sounds like your daughter is off to a great start, I hope she has fun! She can still do agility classes, etc with your pup. Having two pups at once is an unholy nightmare, though. It sounds as though the co-owner may (misguidedly) be saying the military aspect is her main concern, when it's your financial situation/having another puppy/etc- things that are a little more "sensitive" that she doesn't want to outright say.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

I understand the titling and training is $$$ That is why I told her upfront that I could not promise the dog would get titled. I explained to her that the dog would in essence be my daughters bestest friend and go about doing everything my daughter does and just have fun and we would do our best to title him. She was fine with this and thus the selling as a "pet possible show" as opposed to the extra $400 he would cost if he were a "show dog"
All was well until I mentioned military. Part of the reason I never tried to get her a dog before was because of the military but we are in a position now that we are stable enough to get dogs. I explained this to her.
Like I said, I am just frustrated! But partially not because I didn't want a puppy from this breeder in the first place, they are really a "show" line and I want more of a "working" line for my daughter because these dogs have a lot of the same problems GSDs do and she wants to do some hard playing with her dog, I feel it would be better for her to have a working line. She wants a puppy ASAP and felt these would be great! I have no proof that show lines wont be as good I just have opinions!
I just didn't think it was very nice to get her all excited and then deny her because of her Dad serving the country! She has a hard enough time as it is not seeing her Dad half the year, now some people wont sell her a dog she so desperately wants because of it!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Go somewhere else...seriously.

Sorry, daughter wants the dog right now doesn't matter. It's a 10+ year commitment, she can wait a month or two more.

If she's into agility, I'm assuming you're looking at the breeds that are good at agility...those breeds aren't rare and you should easily be able to find another solid breeder in your area that has puppies or will have puppies soon. You're not really in the most unpopulated area in the world...

And yes...it is the bad eggs that give the rest of you the bad reputation. But as a breeder, you have to protect your dogs. And if this is a good breeder...they shouldn't have any problem finding another home that they believe is better than yours for their dog. Sadly, the good breeders are in no shortage of demand for their dogs, they definitely have plenty of choices on who to sell their dogs to.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

A while back I took a show handling class-there was a breeder there of terriers and a lot of the kids there had dogs from her breeding program -she was very involved with showing her dogs and helping the owners-in reading your thread -there may be breeders out there who would be happy to let your daughter handle their dogs -rather than buying a dog to show-it would give your daughter a lot of experience-just a thought


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

In all my dealings with breeders they have expected the full payment of the puppy at the time of the purchase. I know some are willing to work something out, especially with people they know or trust (already have a history of good ownership and training/titling their dogs), but my expectation is to pay the full price up front and would not hold it against a breeder if they didn't want to take payment plans or options other than cash up front.

I'm not sure how much of a concern the military thing is, but I do know that if it's a good breeder, often there are reasons for the concern/hesitation. You may be different, but just be sensitive to the fact that they've most likely had some bad experiences in the past if there are reasons they won't sell to certain families/situations.

Ultimately the puppies are theirs to sell to whom they chose. I would actually be more concerned about a breeder not caring at all what the person planned to do with the dog or how they were going to pay for it and just selling a dog to any person with the cash.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Yes the trainer/handler brought her a dog last night to class. They are who we got teh info on the breeder from. She enjoyed handling him but I understand it is not the same as having your own to live with and play with all the time.
I found someone who I wanted to get a pup from but she wont be breeding until her bitch comes into heat, she is thinking juneish so that puts the pups out to September. I am fine with that but daughter didn't want to wait. PLUS the last time she tried to breed her bitch it didn't take so no guarantees this one will either.
I will go elsewhere, again I was just venting my frustration! I guess I shouldn't be frustrated.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

What breed does your daughter want? A border collie?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My main concern would be that you needed to get the pup by payments. If I were a breeder I wouldn't sell a pup on payments. Purchasing is just the start of a very expensive hobby and you already have a GSD pup. Teens have all these desires, idealistic ideas and plans but ultimately you probably will be responsible for the dog in the end. I would let her work with the GSD pup and if she won't, then that's too bad. In situation like that I practiced tough love and paid off big time in then end for us parents and for the kids. You can't always give what they want.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

With living critters, it is more than just your problem. I mean, if I sold you a piano, you being military means you have to move every few years, it is really none of my concern if you aren't going to be able to move the piano. The piano doesn't have feelings. The piano doesn't run the risk of landing in a shelter, to be euthanized. 

And if you have to wait for a tax-return, the breeder does offer a good question, how come you can't put it on a cc? Do you not have a valid cc? If you don't have the money, and you don't have a cc, than how will you manage a serious illness. 

Again, if this was a piano, then it is none of my business if you are not going to be able to have it tuned when it needs it. But a critter probably will have you at the vet, and even an e-vet. Regular vets generally want their money on the day, but e-vets generally will not even look at your dog without money or a cc up front.

These are red flags to breeders. Or, I should say, yellow flags. I don't like red flags. There are some, but yellow flags require more questions. Give me your plan of action for when you have to move. Show me how you have managed to keep other large dogs and make moves with them. Tell me you have a CC but, you want to keep that open in the even that there are problems unforeseen with the puppy and waiting for the tax-return just makes more sense for a one-time expenditure such as the purchase price of the puppy. 

Breeders who are letting their conformation puppies go -- puppies that they WANT people showing in the show ring, probably would want a pretty strong commitment that you will indeed show the dog. However, a pet-quality pup from a breeder who shows their dogs in conformation, may be the best entry-level dog for a kid who _might_ get into showing in conformation. 

You have a 13 week old GSD puppy, and you are thinking about getting an 8 week old other puppy? That is another breeder-reddish flag. Really. Two puppies at once is really tough. And baloney on the kid taking responsibility for a puppy. 

I don't like what I am hearing about the breeder not wanting to keep the puppy for another week, until your check comes. If they have a deposit, breeders should be pretty flexible about the actual time the pup comes home. Who cares if the rest of the litter is gone? Are they selling the dam too. What is an extra week with a puppy? 

It sounds like the breeder and co-owner do not want to wait for their money. Their concerns are valid, but if it is used as pressure for you to come up with the money quicker for them, then walk away.

One last note: On waiting for the breeder you like, who has dogs that you like, this is the PERFECT OPPORTUNITY to TEACH your daughter that dogs are not something that you run out and get, right now, that it is more important to go with the breeder you trust, and somethings are better to wait for.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would probably have the same reservations. It is not just one thing but a series of things that would make me uncomfortable about the transaction were I a breeder

-The commitment level and changing priorities of a teen
-You already have one puppy in the house; who knows what that will bring? What if it gets sick, too?
-The idea of a payment plan then a credit card but not until after the taxes
---kind of indicates a lack of planning/finances if the dog does get sick
-The question of military moves and maybe they have a past experience with this


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

The puppy is actually 13 weeks old. This breeder does not let the puppies go until later. Which is fine by me, they have more bladder control at that age then at 8 weeks! This particular puppy I believe is a hard sell because of some discoloration under his eyes that she swears will go away. It is a Samoyed. They are hard to find around here actually! When I was first talking to her this puppy had been passed on a few times. 
I do have a CC but I don't want to pay for a puppy on it. I actually have the money in the bank to pay for him BUT that money is reserved for emergencies. We own 2 houses and 2 cars, I keep money in reserve. I did offer payments as an option if she needed this puppy gone NOW. She has another litter on the ground that is a few weeks old so I don't know why the pup needs gone right away. 
No worries, again I feel my situation is good and I felt I had done enough soul searching to decide whether to get a pup for her or not. I understand not all people do the research and make sure they are in a position to get a dog so those that do sometimes get the short end of the stick.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OMG, a Samoyed! That is a lot of work and upkeep. What is her reason for wanting a Samoyed? Why isn't your daughter paying for the dog? She should have a job and money saved for something like this.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Well she is not old enough to have a job right now. She does babysitting and odd jobs and I told her she will pay for her classes. She is home schooled so is home all day, she is aware of the work involved. I do not know WHY she wants a sammy, WHY do I only want shepherds? I guess it is personal preference. I have tried to talk her out of it and I was hoping this little rescue puppy would do the trick but she is not interested in any other dog. I have had her in classes for a few months now and she has handled all sorts of dogs and been given the opportunity to get several different dogs and has passed. Again WHY do I have and prefer shepherds? I just do!


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I think at that age, if I wanted a dog that was THAT expensive, I would have been required to take some odd jobs to help defray the cost. Not only is it a life, but it's an EXPENSIVE one! It doesn't hurt to learn to make sacrifices to appreciate the payoff. There is no reason to rush into it. I would let her babysit, do odd jobs (heck I mowed lawns .. fun when I could barely crank that push mower..and as a short gal wasn't that much taller than the handle). There will be other litters.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Galathiel said:


> I think at that age, if I wanted a dog that was THAT expensive, I would have been required to take some odd jobs to help defray the cost. Not only is it a life, but it's an EXPENSIVE one! It doesn't hurt to learn to make sacrifices to appreciate the payoff. There is no reason to rush into it. I would let her babysit, do odd jobs (heck I mowed lawns .. fun when I could barely crank that push mower..and as a short gal wasn't that much taller than the handle). There will be other litters.


She's a teenager. Her mother knows whether she is mature enough and close enough to take on odd jobs, or get a job, or whether that makes sense to teach her about responsibility and all that. 

$1800 is not all that expensive for a puppy from a responsible show-breeder. 

What I have a problem with, is that it is more important to get a puppy NOW, than it is to get a puppy from a breeder that we know and trust. Is there a good Samoyed puppy out there right now from a good breeder somewhere? Sure. Somewhere. But waiting to support the breeder who does a lot with training kids up in the sport, that you know, that you like her dogs, that just makes way more sense to me. 

Bottom line is, doesn't matter what you do. If you have the puppy ready right now, it will go. That is kind of sad.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

That is what I am trying to teach her now! That you need to wait for the right litter. This breeder is helping me in a way to teach that since I can not get this pup!
Again I was just frustrated and venting that! I don't think it was right for her to refuse to sell the pup to me based on my husbands active military status. Again, I know other military families have given reason to create a stereotype. I am not that person and have refused to get a dog until we are prepared and secure. THAT was my frustration.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm sorry .. but an $1800 (puppy or any other) purchase IS a LOT for a child to expect from their parents. Being a parent, that's my stance and I'm sticking to it. I live in the country, so my son wouldn't have been able to do a lot of odd jobs either. However, he did do things around the house and yard for ME and his grandmother to earn money when he wanted something I deemed a 'want' and not a 'need'.

I would start looking for a new breeder as this one may not change her position.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

SARpup said:


> *Well she is not old enough to have a job right now.* ..... I have tried to talk her out of it and I was hoping this little rescue puppy would do the trick but *she is not interested in any other dog*. I have had her in classes for a few months now and she has handled all sorts of dogs and been given the opportunity to get several different dogs and has passed. Again WHY do I have and prefer shepherds? I just do!



bolded a few things. 

I won't tell you how to parent, however, as a girl who was once a teen and is still young (early 20s now) with my own dog...I cannot tell you how GLAD I am that my dad did not let me get a dog when I was younger. :blush:

I think you need to put your foot down with this and WAIT..trust me her whining will go away, mine did . You have a perfectly capable dog. It's unreasonable to me that your daughter likes to work the trainer's dog yet ignores a gsd puppy you already have. 

Your daughter isn't even old enough to work so it's really nice of you to put out all that money for a dog for her...that right there is enough to make her wait. Make her save up her own money. These are not unreasonable requests in the slightest.

I agree with others that a lot of the things are red flags for a breeder. If I were selling a dog and someone asked if they could do payment plans I would straight up assume they don't have enough money for emergencies - but that's just me. Military, I don't know if that matters but it makes sense that it would make them weary. I think that's honestly a blanket excuse though because they can probably tell this is a dog for your daughter and teenagers are notorious for changing minds etc.

Wait. Have her work for it. She will appreciate it more. I sure did. AND she will make better decisions. Split second decisions are never good


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Now her co owner of the littler doesn't want to sell to us because we are military and what if we have to move and can't take the dog and *what if it needs and emergency operation to save its life and we can't afford to do it*.
> I kind of understand and those are both valid points BUT isn't that MY problem? Shouldn't I be the one that determines if getting a puppy is right for me?


The breeder is justified in having reservations. The breeder is looking out for the welfare of the puppy, not the buyer. 
Putting a dog on a CC is not the smartest thing to do either.
Even if you will pay it off with the tax return.
If I was in this situation, I would have my daughter save up some $, then I'd match the savings...as soon as we had enough for a puppy, then contact breeders. If my daughter was still committed after that length of time, I'd hope the commitment will carry over years later. 
My daughter wanted a border collie for 4-H when she was about 13, and I told her she could if she paid for most of it. Her interest waned after about 6 months and she ended up spending the savings on something else. Teenagers for the most part aren't consistent in their interests, unless they have an extreme passion.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I will say I got the BEST financial lesson from my parents when I was 10 years old and desperately wanted a new bike (well I really was outgrowing the first one, but I wanted a sting-ray like all the other kids)

They gave me jobs around the house (real jobs like stripping and waxing floors which was something back then in the days of real linoleum), raking leaves, etc. It took me a year to save the money for the bike. By then I thought long and hard and opted for a 26 inch 3 speed (which is the bike I rode to Jr High and High School) because I was thinking down the road a few years with so much of MY hard earned money on the line.

It was so valuable to me I when my younger daughter who wanted expensive clothes (the older one was fine with walmart/kmart) was 14 she actually got a part time job after school because I would not fork it out. I am proud of her. She is in a PhD program now and has always earned scholarships and fellowships and been promoted in her various jobs along the way.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

If I were a breeder, the two puppies thing would be my biggest reservation. 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Galathiel said:


> I'm sorry .. but an $1800 (puppy or any other) purchase IS a LOT for a child to expect from their parents. Being a parent, that's my stance and I'm sticking to it. I live in the country, so my son wouldn't have been able to do a lot of odd jobs either. However, he did do things around the house and yard for ME and his grandmother to earn money when he wanted something I deemed a 'want' and not a 'need'.
> 
> I would start looking for a new breeder as this one may not change her position.


The purchase price is only a chip off the ice burg. I would prefer my kid to know what they wanted, and to get a dog from a responsible breeder for the kid that could would not prevent my child from doing all they can do with the dog.

The OP owns two houses. Maybe they are in a better financial position than your parents or my parents were in. I would not want to deny a child the dog they truly want, especially if it entailed a lot of physical exercise and educational opportunities if the parents are in a position of giving it to her, just because she did not work for it.

Not everyone needs the same lessons taught the same way. All kids are different. The parents know their child. We do not.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think the breeder has valid concerns as well.

This is not a bash on military whatsoever, here , I live near a huge sub base, navy housing, humane society here , last I knew, would not adopt to base housing because of the amount of animals they 'get' from base housing.

When I was young, if I wanted something THAT expensive, my parents made me work for it, they didnt have the luxury of having that much money to spend on a puppy. 

I am in agreement, I would have your daughter start saving her pennies, she may not "like it", but in the end, she may be really proud of herself for spending her own hard earned money..


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

Samoyed are gorgeous fluffy toys, but they have the worlds most annoying bark and we have one in Ruby's obedience class that's been taking this class 3 times now because he is a bit hard to train. I hear they are so much work.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think the timing is the biggest issue and I think you are right that your daughter may learn a valuable lesson if you need to wait. I know a kid might want something NOW but a well bred dog is a well bred dog regardless of the age of the person owning it. Many of us on this forum spend many months, often even *years* waiting for the right puppy/litter. If she is serious about the responsibility and also doing training and shows, she can wait until September.

I don't personally see the military thing as an issue, but I've never really had a breeder pry into my personal life/finances so that would probably be something I wouldn't volunteer unless specifically asked by the breeder.

How much you spend on your kid is your business. I worked several jobs and basically paid for everything but food, necessary school supplies, and 1 new outfit each year by the time I was 16 but I'm sure if my parents were able to buy more for us, they would have (I have no objections to how I was raised or what I was given/not given as a teenager). If I wanted something, I had to work for it and pay for it not because my parents were mean but that was what we could afford. I never had a car until I got married and my husband had one, so I was pretty resourceful with finding work and getting there/back on my own. I was not allowed to have pets other than a guinea pig so saving for a dog was never an issue. I waited until I was done with school, married, and in a house to get my first dog. I wouldn't hold it against my parents they never got me a dog, it would not have worked and they had other priorities. I'm happy that other people are in a position to allow their child to take on that responsibility and have a best friend as well as something productive to do with their time at a crucial point in life. I adored the guinea pig I had during high school.

I don't know much about Sammy's but I HAVE seen many being handled by junior handlers in conformation and rally-obedience. They seem to be a fairly popular breed among junior trainers/handlers. Good luck!


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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

SARpup said:


> I have tried to talk her out of it and I was hoping this little rescue puppy would do the trick but she is not interested in any other dog.



You are the parent. You shouldn't have to try and talk her out of it. $1800 is a LOT of money for a puppy for a teenager. You have a puppy. If she was seriously interested in agility then she should try it out with your current puppy to make sure it's what she really wants before spending $1800 on a new puppy.


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## Eiros (Jun 30, 2011)

If she's a teenager, the next 10 years of her life are probably going to be pretty hectic... College? Travel? Internships? etc. and maybe she won't have the capacity to care for a dog while going through all that. I wouldn't have been able to, nor wanted to. 


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

I agree with what everyone has said about it's the breeders right to feel uncomfortable and not sale and that it would teach your daughter some great lessons to at least have her pay some of the cost. But I don't think that anyone hit on the cost of grooming a dog with that much hair. IF you don't go to a groomer she will need to brush it completely out daily to avoid mats, which are painful for the dog. Brushing a dog like that daily is at minimum a 30 minute project too. And on top of the horrific grooming, she can't do a whole lot with a puppy. 
They are a large dog and need to be carefully raised so as not to strain their joints, like a GSD. She can't expect a pup to run an agility course within the first 6 months or so that she has him. She will need to just focus on basic basic non physical things with him for a long time. If she is dead set on a Sammy and is ready to full out run agility, she should rescue an adolescent or adult. Find a Samoyed rescue...she can get a purebred one, save it's life and do agility with it. This is what I would do if I had a teenage daughter.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Why is she insisting that it must be a Samoyed? What is her experience with them? I ask b/c I've known far too many people that fell in love with an image of the perfect dog, cat or parrot & rapidly fell totally out of love with the reality.

The breeder's concerns are legit. Good breeders not only take back dogs that don't work out, but place them to minimize the chances of that happening. But don't be discouraged. Simply look around & find a breeder you're simpatico with who will sell you a pup. 

There are breeders that won't place dogs with people who have small children, live in apartments, don't have fenced yards, won't feed RAW & on&on. I once had a rescue decline to work with me b/c I've used decidely *strong* language on a particular board. Whether *I* agree with particular limitations or not is irrelevant. Breeders must decide for themselves what is of paramount importance when placing their pups. With a bit of work you'll find a breeder who's criteria are a better fit for yur situation & you'll both be more comfortable.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

Until teen lives on her own, pays her own bills, and has the extra cash to buy and care for a puppy, no need to talk her out of anything. 

The word "No" comes in very handy with teens. Unfortunately I know a few that have never heard it...

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

For the number of people on this board that don't like people coming up with them and giving them some advice about their dogs, we have an awful lot of people who offer advice about parenting when this thread is NOT about parenting. 

The OP is NOT asking about how to parent her child, but whether the breeder is in left field, and concerned about stuff that is none of her business. The question has been answered. She is not. 

The kid wants a Samoyed. Has her heart set on it. Her mother has already contacted breeders! It think it would be downright crappy of a parent to act like she IS going to get the kid what she wants, and then, for no good reason, change her mind and tell her kid to get a job. 

Just because when I grew up the only kind of dog we ever had was the kind behind a "Free Puppies" sign. Just because when I was a kid, I had to deliver newspapers in NE Ohio with snow up to my rear end without a pair of boots. Just because, when I was growing up half of everything I made went for room and board. Just because, when I was growing up if I did babysit on a week night, I had to take my little sister and brother with me, because I babysat them every weeknight from 5PM to 10PM -- after I made dinner in time for my parents to come home, eat and go to school. Just because that was MY life, doesn't mean I think every kid ought to grow up like that. 

When I was 4, the first day of kindergarten, I would get out of school at lunch time, the others had to stay all day. So my mother gave me a map, and told me to follow it to the baby sitter's house who I had never met. In the middle of Cleveland. If someone did that today, they would probably have Children's Services called on them. 

I was 5.5 years younger than my oldest brother. He carried a key around his neck and would let us in after school and watch us till my parents got home. He also got us out to school in the morning. He was 10. And when I was 11, I would deliver papers up to the babysitter's home, and then put my 3 month old sister into the paper bag, and with my 3 year old brother, deliver papers the rest of the way home. 

That is MY experience. It doesn't bear on this thread. I could say, make your daughter babysit and deliver papers to buy a dog. That's silly. If a parent is not objecting to the idea, and is in a position to buy her kid a dog, than far better to take her through the experience of learning about the breed, finding a good breeder, and helping her to succeed. 

There are hundreds of ways to teach children to be responsible. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE POOR LADY IS ASKING!!! 

This is exactly like people walking up to you in petsmart and telling you, you need to use a gentle leader on your puppy or you will ruin it. Or coming up to you and telling you that you shouldn't have that wolf dog in public, and to never leave it alone with any kids.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> OMG, a Samoyed! That is a lot of work and upkeep. What is her reason for wanting a Samoyed? Why isn't your daughter paying for the dog? She should have a job and money saved for something like this.


 Samoyed's aren't that bad, good natured, happy dogs.  Grooming is probably the biggest issue, they only need a moderate amount of exercise. 

One thing though, I'm not sure a Samoyed is the best choice for agility, if you want to be competitive. Certainly they can do it though, but I'm not sure it's the ideal breed if you're hoping to be competitive.

OP, I do think perhaps the timing isn't right, and the breeder's concerns are reasonable IMO.

Whoever suggested getting your daughter in touch with a breeder in the area and perhaps seeing if they would be open to teaching your daughter how to handle/show one of their own dogs might be a great compromise! I bet she'd learn a lot!  

I am running some Border Collies at flyball that I don't own. My GSD has some physical and behavioural limitations which makes flyball impossible for us, but I still have the opportunity to participate and have just as much fun with someone else's dogs and I've even managed to put some titles on the one.


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## SARpup (Jan 7, 2004)

Thank you for all of the comments, I guess I was in the wrong thinking it was not a fair decision on their part. I am less irritated now.
My daughter has been using trainers dogs and other students dogs for agility and she has been handling the trainers Samoyed in her handling class. She has gone to agility events and talked to the people who run Samoyeds, she has and will continue to go out with people who own them and play doing the things they do with them, scootering, sledding, agility, herding, I have made sure she knows what it takes to have one. I didn't think I would have to defend my parenting on this thread so I did not feel it pertinent to my original topic.
Thank you all for the concern for my daughter, I assure you I can handle raising her as I have handled it for the past 15 years. I have contacted the breeder that I want a puppy from and will be keeping in touch with her hoping that her bitch takes this time around and she gets a litter.
On a side note, I had my puppy in to the grooming shop today that has a self serve option and I had my daughter with me and she has herself a job lined up when she turns 16 at the end of the year. I was pleased at her initiative at trying to get a job now however the law is the law and insurance is part of the law and she has to wait until she is 16. But she will be taking my puppy in and getting to know the people and learning while she can't actually be employed there. Currently she babysits and does odd jobs for people and pays for the training she is involved in.


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

SARpup said:


> On a side note, I had my puppy in to the grooming shop today that has a self serve option and I had my daughter with me and she has herself a job lined up when she turns 16 at the end of the year. I was pleased at her initiative at trying to get a job now however the law is the law and insurance is part of the law and she has to wait until she is 16. But she will be taking my puppy in and getting to know the people and learning while she can't actually be employed there. Currently she babysits and does odd jobs for people and pays for the training she is involved in.


I just want to throw out there that in my completely bias opinion, this is one of the BEST things your daughter can be doing to gain experience.  For one, she'll learn how to REALLY deal with that samoyed coat. GSD double coats are one thing, yeah there's shedding, yeah it gets crazy out of hand without brushing, but the LONG coat like on a samoyed is a lot more difficult. With a GSD, as long as you're at least putting minimal effort in, you'll put a dent in the undercoat. However, it's REALLY hard to learn to get to the root of a dog like a samoyed. On top of learning how to groom her future dog, I think the experience in dog behavior/body language that you get in a grooming shop is phenomenal. In general, the grooming process is stressful for even the most stable of dogs, so you learn an awful lot about how to "read" dogs, better than she'll even get with the sports she's involved in. It's a different atmosphere, with different ways you have to handle situations. As long as she takes training advice with a grain of salt (I've been in the industry long enough to realize that you definitely do NOT need to know a **** thing about behavior to work as a professional... :rolleyes2 her handling skills are really going to get a work out!

Good luck with everything! It seems like your daughter really knows what she wants!


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## nktigger99 (Aug 22, 2006)

One thing is are you up for taking this dog when your daughter leaves the house? And does your daughter understand that she may have to leave the dog behind if she goes off to college etc.? I am saying that because I had to leave my dog when I moved out....I left it with my mother who a week later said do something with this dog now or it is getting killed.....so I had to scramble to find a place for her....my dad took her in and she lived with him for two years till she passed. I got her in 6th grade from the shelter....a cute black and white cocker. I had to move in with my brother and he had a dog aggressive chow so my dog could not come with me. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

One way to make sure this is what your daughter wants is have her travel as an intern with a show handler to shows.. She will get up at dawn, get dressed in show clothes, get the dogs cleaned up, bathed, groomed, walked for potty, clean up ex pens, take dogs to the ring, hold dogs, get yelled at for not having said dog to ring in time, wait till after best in show, change out of show clothes into normal clothes, then clean up after dogs, walk dogs, feed dogs, crate dogs, clean ex pens, and the circle keeps going day after day. I worked with show handlers until I started showing myself. I took kids along with me to shows to "help" I have watched kids who wanted to show dog work with handlers and after the first group of shows, not being able to do anything but "dogs" decide pretty quick that maybe they don't want that responsibility. They have almost zero time to do anything else. Then I have seen kids, like my Grandson who turned into such a handler he qualified for Eukanuba when he was 12. He took Group placements with his own dog against adults. He was asked to show others dogs for owners and also handlers. He finished a lot of champions for other folks with different breeds.It was his "niche". But he also outgrew showing when it was time to own his own vehicle. He loves dogs, but doesn't show anymore.He started working full time at 17 after he graduated early and will now be going to the oil fields next month. He loved showing dogs, but not so much wanted the responsibility of showing, grooming, etc once he had his own truck.
As to the costs of finishing a champion in conformation? For a "normal" dog, not a "blow your socks off "kind of dog that comes along and finishes as a puppy, in most breeds, you are talking thousands and thousands of dollars. The average cost to finish a Champion Sheltie is close to $5000 or $6000 . Some breeds more, some less. Travel time, motel, food, entries all cost for each show. You can easily spend $400 or $500 on a weekend and not come away with any points towards a dogs championship. Showing in conformation is not a cheap sport, especially not anymore when entries can be anywhere from $30 -$50 per show. If you add Agility to that, after the dog is over a year old to compete, then there is double entries, etc. Junior competition used to be free with a regular entry, now most shows charge for that one also.
Find a handler, even the breeder of the puppy your daughter wants and get her to let your daughter go to shows with her. Make a true commitment that your daughter can't not go cause of wanting to do something with friends. Let her spend a day or two or three cleaning up after dogs, washing and blowing out coats, especially Sammys who DUMP hair everywhere. Let her deal with cranky dogs that are tired of being in their crates all day, let her clean crates with messy poop all over the dog and crate. If she can commit to those things on a daily basis, then maybe she is ready for a dog.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

You know I am an Army civilian and I move every 4 or 5 years. I have never left a pet behind yet. 

I did have one breeder years ago refuse to sell me a puppy becasue of that. I went elsewhere and ended up with my Kayos who just turned 11 a few months ago. 

The breeder I got her from told me military folks were some of the most dependable and she had never had an issue. If the breeder has right of first refusal or a return clause then this reason is bogus. 

I think it is fantastic your daughter wants to be involved in dogs. If you can afford to make it happen that is great. If not, she needs to decide to like the GSD pup I think.


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