# Do you "know" this dog?



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

This male has been bred to one of Zefra's siblings (previous litter) and I was wondering if anyone knew anything about him or his lines?

I am extremely curious! 

Also, looking at the pedigrees - what would one expect in terms of temperament, drives, thresholds, nerve, sharpness, etc.. ? I know what to expect from the dams side obviously but when mixing these lines... ?

Anyone?

Male:
Lubeck von der Mahler-Meister - German Shepherd Dog

Thanks everyone!


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Very nice!!! I love V. Haus Ming dogs! Plus he is KNVP Met Lof. KNVP is very difficult for German Shepherds to excel at. Met Lof means "with Honors" which means he scored very high. I have a v. haus ming grand son through Maik von der ber burg hinte (Nick H son) and Eika V. haus Ming on the bottom. He is the most stable nerved dog that I have ever seen. Takes any kind of correction in stride. He is a very good barker, naturally protective and is a complete pleasure to train and own.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My bitch, Nike (Burgos' Unika) is out of Citty vom Haus Ming who is a full sister to Eika. These can be very tough dogs with excellent fight drive especially Iko/Jenni Lindenhalle and the Körbelbachs. Some may not be the easiest dogs to handle and they need to be bred to lines that are more biddable.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I liked the pedigree as well which is why I wanted to see what everyone here thought.

Here is the mating test (with Zefra in replacement of the dam since they are the same and I couldn't link the dams information for some reason!).

Mating test - German Shepherd Dog

These pups are being sold to working homes. 

It seems like these pups being produced would be something I was interested in if I was in the market for a pup. 

Would love to hear your thoughts (anyones!) on this mating test.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so is there any more information on Lubeck ?

A name from the past contacted me today to let me know about his Lubeck son (impressive Met Lof scores) . Lubeck and his dam are both KNPV . http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1933596-northern-k9-crush

I have Blenda Zunderland in many of my lines carrying the same haus Sevens (Blenda's brother also KNPV met lof ) and of course Ina Gard is not bad at all - Ina and Ira already on my pedigrees.

any knowledge appreciated . thanks


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Elizabeth, I hope the female has bombproof nerves and has strong lineage for clear headed working lines. This is not a dog to mix with dogs that are extreme or nervy....as Lisa alluded to.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Cliff , Elizabeth's is old history. Have a look at the pedigree I provided . 

A name from the past contacted me today to let me know about his Lubeck son (impressive Met Lof scores) . Lubeck and his dam are both KNPV . http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1933596-northern-k9-crush

I have Blenda Zunderland in many of my lines carrying the same haus Sevens (Blenda's brother also KNPV met lof ) and of course Ina Gard is not bad at all - Ina and Ira already on my pedigrees.
One pedigree has Blenda twice -- her brother Tarik Zunderland "The pedigree is built on haus Sevens on the sire side. Sevens is a Dutch kennel , KNPV dogs. I had introduced a male into my lines Carmspack Case - German Shepherd Dog not because of his sire , but that was not at all unwelcome , but because of what was on his dam's side -Blenda Zunderland . Blenda's brother from a previous litter was Tarik Zunderland Tarik v Zunderland, KNPV PH1, Met lof, IPO3, a- normal. Tarik is one of of the incredibly rare GSD's to achieve Holland's prestigious KNPV police dog title with a high score of 415 out 460 points. For this level they have to have an exceptional score of 392 or better and demonstrate a full crushing bite . 
NOTE: it is extremely rare to see GSD's be trained for KNPV, let alone pass the KNPV Police Dog examination. GSD's are amont the 2 percentile of dogs who qualify for the tough KNPV training and examination .
Later Tarik became a police dog in New Jersey.Tarik has been a Police K9 since 2001 with New Jersey. He has good nerves , is handler hard ( which is NOT handler aggressive ) has a good balance of intense prey, fight, defense, hunt and hardness in all situations. 
This balance of being handler hard -- but not handler aggressive is a comment I have come across several times when looking at Zunderland dogs , haus Sevens dogs, 

Incredible shrinking font? 

I have several haus Sevens dogs , Yaga , Randa, Putz running through my pedigrees.

These are dogs that worked, could stand a lot of stress from the job (frustration, opposition, climate , duration) and not fall ill or go sour . 

The pedigree is just solid with strong working dogs , strong for the fight , not reactive , not "sporty" in being flashy and reactive . 

I like it very very much.

from http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...res/168329-say-hello-my-new-girl-circe-3.html


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Carmen and Cliff - I lost touch with the owner of the dam so not sure of the outcome?

Would be interested in knowing more though, when I sought out information on this dog in the past, I really liked what I saw but to be honest, did not do much more investigating or follow the mating.


----------



## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Id be interested to know as well. If you read around a bit more you will see some in other places questioning Lubecks production, why he was sold several times etc.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

no , he was sold because you have a show line flowing in the pedigree 
VORZUGLICH Chateau von der Mahler-Meister

and there are purists out there who didn't breed to him because of this -- they want full "working" yet did not look to see what the progeny was , how it was built for the next generation.

It gets silly and tiring and boring sometimes .


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sometimes a smarty will look at a pedigree and back in the 6th generation find Quanto Wienerau and say it is too show ---


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I agree Carmen.....many people don't realize that the further back you go with SL, the upward increase in good dogs you will find. I had a female in late seventies that on dam side was a Canto daughter/Bernd/Kirschental in first three generations....a super working female.....SL today is not the same SL years ago even though it may be the same dog involved. It revolves around how saturated the pedigree is in the perceived weaknesses.


----------



## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I think the questions were also surrounding his actual production not just lineage. I believe he was sold two or three times last i checked. If he is dropping pups that are anything like him with any consistency you would think the word would have gone out.

I hope the rumors are bs as we need more accomplished studs up north here.


----------



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Agreed. 

Although, I will say one male I do like around here and have met a few times now (both at trial and in a more relaxed situation - he came to an event my club hosted) is Garak. Wonderful dog, truly versatile and his handler Leslie is doing wonderful things with him.

SG Garak von Heksterhorst


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I asked the question again about Lubeck to see if any further knowledge had been found .

I had followed Brandevoort for while http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...anding-knpv-dogs-results-dutch-nationals.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...es-belgian-breeder-spit-some-thoughts-11.html

I had been looking for a while . Not much. Some discouraging evidence at the power of the internet and the say-so of one's or two's and the power of cliques . Not appreciated . Dog sold to here and there . Not being bred to because he has a show line --- I mean good lord give me a break. Fado Kathargo had a show line. I can point to dozens of others including Czech dogs . As long as there is a reason and intelligent planning , no problems. Another web site has some winging and whining about one offspring not having hip records.

So ---- being one to always go to the horses mouth let me tell you a bit about the dog. 
I have been having some very lovely emails with Frank Stommels , a top breeder of dogs and competitor in KNPV.

He did use Lubeck Mahler Meister . He had a litter in which 3 pups survived the critical period after birth . A female and two males .
One male is Gandalf his personal competition dog , and the other male Gideon who went to the Dutch army as a dual (patrol/protection and bomb / explosives detection dog). So that dog Gideon would not have a record of hips as he is not a breeding dog --- but you can bet your last dollar that this would be a pre-requisite before being accepted into a program that invests time and money into training and expects a long working life. 

Gandalf -- here is a youtubey that mr Stommels sent , a little something that he put together because the snow prevented a lot of outdoor training 




You can see in other video links at how calmly the dog works , very directible.


He deliberately chose Lubeck for his lively temperament and high degree of willingness , the will to please, easy handling . He was a very open social animal.

some further description from another forum , Bill Cusson " I’m very grateful to my partner Jan Rekers whom entrusted me with his most priced possession GSD: LUBECK VON DER MAHLER-MEISTER KNPV PH 1 432 MET LOF 
He is a son of the World famous Inox Vom Haus Ming KNPV PH 1 Met Lof, PH 2 Met Lof, Obj Met Lof.

Upon my return to Canada, Lübeck will be available for studding –to approved females.
He is tremendously fast; very athletic German shepherd with Belgian Malinois like drives and attacks. He was crowned the best attacker in the PH 1 competition for all GSD's. His attacks on the suit are very violent, much more like a Malinois than a German shepherd. His grips are full and punishing and he has very high fight drive, but at the same time, has the nerves and stable temperament to do virtually any job. His hunt and retrieve drive is amazing. Social dog yet very serious in the work. Beautiful medium sized dog that has offspring who are excelling in the KNPV program in Holland now.




He placed 3rd in the Provincial Championships
He placed 1st in the young dog competition
He won the best attacker contest for the PH 1 competition for GSDs
He is HD and ED "A" normal
He has a ZW rating of 72 "

So I knew today was a big day for Frank Stommels as he was going in for regionals competition with what he feels is his next great dog --Gandalf Brandevoort 

I just received an email from him with the results and a picture -- 

Gandalf became today region champion young dogs with 150 out of 150 points! KNPV PH1 Afd 1 and partly Afd 3.

By the way NOT prey monkeys .


----------

