# Kyleigh 5 month old future protector



## Konotashi

She's beautiful.

Gotta say uh-oh to the baby momma comment though.


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## GSDGunner

*sigh*
Another new post with a reference to having puppies. 
Yes, you have a beautiful pup! But you're not going to get a lot of pats on the back for the baby momma comment.

I sure hope you are a reputable breeder, with experience, titled dogs, health testing etc, cause if not, you're not going to win a lot of great comments (or fans).


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## Konotashi

GSDGunner said:


> But you're not going to get a lot of pats on the back for the baby momma comment.
> 
> I sure hope you are a reputable breeder, with experience, titled dogs, health testing etc, cause if not, you're not going to win a lot of great comments (or fans).


Well said.


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## soccermom470

True the baby mama comment was inappropriate, I appologize  I love her and she is a wonderful compainion!


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## GSDGunner

Does that mean you are not going to have litters of puppies with her?


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## koda00

Konotashi said:


> Well said.


well said again!


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## DeeMcB

Put down the shovel and step away from the hole.


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## soccermom470

I havnt been around message boards in regard to pets until now so forgive my ignorance. We have intended on buying a male in 2 years and having no more than 2 litters. I know some people are passionate about not breeding but Im not sure why. This will probably link me to many opinions about breeding and the pros and cons. The question will inevitably be asked why do we want to breed? Just think they are cute? Can you handle the medical aspects? What if you cant get rid of your dogs, are you going to give them to already overwhelmed shelters and have them chosen over other dogs needing homes? We have considered all of these questions and have 18 months before we will breed her, if that soon. We are not hoarders, nor do we feel the need for the love of 10 puppies yipping at our heels, we have family and friends who want some, all of whom are dog owners, lovers.


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## LaRen616

Please do not breed your dog, there are already way too many animals dying in shelters everyday because people "wanted a puppy from their dog" or they wanted to make a quick buck or their unaltered animal got out and bred with another dog or strays that keep reproducing. So please go take a look at your local animal shelter, more than half of those dogs in there will not be making it back out. 

If more people were responsible then we wouldn't have so many animals dying every single day in shelters. 

Breeding should be left to reputable Breeders, people that are looking to better the breed, people looking to breed healthier GSD's and GSD's that have great temperment and the ability to preform any task that their owner gives to them. Also, there is a chance that your female could have complications during labor and die along with her puppies. Do you want to take that chance?


You have to look at the big picture, if you bring 10 puppies into the world when you breed your GSD and 2 of those puppies get bred and they have 10 puppies and 2 of those puppies get bred and they have 10 puppies each, in a matter of about 5-10 years *YOU* brought 50 more puppies into this world when there are already puppiesdying in shelters everyday because there are not enough homes for them all.

Your puppies will have puppies, and those puppies will have puppies........ the cycle will continue.


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## GSDGunner

soccermom470 said:


> we have family and friends who want some, all of whom are dog owners, lovers.


Many people here are going to tell you that is not a reason to have puppies. The world is full of dogs in shelters and rescues because people want to give their family and friends a cute puppy. Cute puppy grows up to have behavior problems because of the lack of proper training and socialization. Or said puppy grew up to bite someone. Where does that cute puppy end up? A shelter or rescue. This is NOT a breed to mess with.

Please do some research and if you insist on breeding, please be sure to do it right.
Title your dogs, do all required health testing and OFA certs. This breed is predisposed to many health problems including hip and joint diseases. 
No dog should be bred because family and friends want them.


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## LaRen616

GSDGunner said:


> Many people here are going to tell you that is not a reason to have puppies. The world is full of dogs in shelters and rescues because people want to give their family and friends a cute puppy. Cute puppy grows up to have behavior problems because of the lack of proper training and socialization. Or said puppy grew up to bite someone. Where does that cute puppy end up? A shelter or rescue. This is NOT a breed to mess with.
> 
> Please do some research and if you insist on breeding, please be sure to do it right.
> Title your dogs, do all required health testing and OFA certs. This breed is predisposed to many health problems including hip and joint diseases.
> *No dog should be bred because family and friends want them*.


EXACTLY :thumbup:


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## Girth

While I agree with most of the concerns about breeding the same could be said for bringing children into the world. I think Gunner hit the proverbial nail on the head.


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## koda00

GSDGunner said:


> Many people here are going to tell you that is not a reason to have puppies. The world is full of dogs in shelters and rescues because people want to give their family and friends a cute puppy. Cute puppy grows up to have behavior problems because of the lack of proper training and socialization. Or said puppy grew up to bite someone. Where does that cute puppy end up? A shelter or rescue. This is NOT a breed to mess with.
> 
> Please do some research and if you insist on breeding, please be sure to do it right.
> Title your dogs, do all required health testing and OFA certs. This breed is predisposed to many health problems including hip and joint diseases.
> No dog should be bred because family and friends want them.


DITTO :thumbup:


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## RogueRed26

GSDGunner said:


> Many people here are going to tell you that is not a reason to have puppies. The world is full of dogs in shelters and
> rescues because people want to give their family and friends a cute puppy. Cute puppy grows up to have behavior problems because of the lack of proper training and socialization. Or said puppy grew up to bite someone. Where does that cute puppy end up? A shelter or rescue. *This is NOT a breed to mess with.*
> 
> Please do some research and if you insist on breeding, please be sure to do it right.
> Title your dogs, do all required health testing and OFA certs. This breed is predisposed to many health problems including hip and joint diseases.
> *No dog should be bred because family and friends want them*.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Wonderfully said. Couldn't have said it better. 

The OB even suggests breeding to up to two litters. I really do not think her whole entire family is up to taking 20 or so puppies, and what then if they do? Then 20 of these puppies will be possibly bred down the future and the vicious breeding cycle will n ever end and mathematically some of these puppies will fault in care somewhere, more unwanted dogs will end up in shelters or worst in the hands of abusers. 

Being a breeder is not simply placing two dogs together and receiving an outcome, it takes passion, research, dedication, time and money. Health clearences must be done (Brucella test, OFA clearance of hip and elbows, x rays, etc), the dog's pedigree with titled parents and health clearances (not a pedigree filled with BYBs), if your dogs are titled (schutzhund, obedience, rally, herding, etc), if they are not, you are simply just another BYB looking for a buck, checking how far off your dog is from the standard of the breed, and will your dog OVERALL BENEFIT THE BREED, NOT HOW IT WILL BE NICE TO SEE AND PLAY WITH PUPPIES CAUSE THEY ARE SO GOSH DARN CUTE!

Don't forget the expenses of raising and whelping a healthy litter. You have to think of x rays, ultrasounds, office visits, stud fees, supplements and vitamins, a good quality dog food (NOT PEDIGREE, BENEFUL, or PUPPY CHOW - you are looking at a HIGH QUALITY dog food that ranges from $50 for 30 lbs), an emergency kit, prepare a birthing kit, prepare for a possible C - section (it happens in many dogs, even cats. If you don't operate, you could lose your dog and the puppy), puppy formula and bottles (just in case, it does happen from time to time). Don't forget adequate vaccinations, not the ones you get from a store and do it yourself, you need to go to the vet receive a health certificate and vaccination record from the proper personnel, puppy testing for behavior in order to place into the right homes, and finally you will also need time to make sure the puppies are feeding well and if you are bottle feeding, you will have to wake up every 2 hours for 4 weeks, as well as you will need time to adequately socialize them. 

Everyone thinks they can be a breeder, but, in all honesty, if you cannot do everything that is listed, leave breeding to the professionals. 

Check other forum threads that say "So you want to be a breeder" "If you want to be a breeder" It will open your eyes to breeding and its difficulties.


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## DianaB

soccermom470 said:


> I havnt been around message boards in regard to pets until now so forgive my ignorance. We have intended on buying a male in 2 years and having no more than 2 litters. I know some people are passionate about not breeding but Im not sure why. This will probably link me to many opinions about breeding and the pros and cons. The question will inevitably be asked why do we want to breed? Just think they are cute? Can you handle the medical aspects? What if you cant get rid of your dogs, are you going to give them to already overwhelmed shelters and have them chosen over other dogs needing homes? We have considered all of these questions and have 18 months before we will breed her, if that soon. We are not hoarders, nor do we feel the need for the love of 10 puppies yipping at our heels, we have family and friends who want some, all of whom are dog owners, lovers.


Our neighbor thought they could breed their lab for a quick buck. Had ten pups (first litter) and planned to sell them for $400 each. They found one home at that price, so dropped it to $250 and got one more interested party. Then they had to move (they knew all along) and decided to sell the pups for $100 each. When that didn't happen either, they decided to "give" them away (after all, who wouldn't want a FREE CUTE puppy?). Even they couldn't give them away 6 of them were rescued (at 10 weeks old, with no socialization, awful living conditions)). 

Of the six, two were euthanized (both had bitten a small child and the dog was less than 6 months old) and the other four finally had homes found for them, but it took months with all the overcrowding, etc.

Not that this is you, just a very sad story, and one I like people to hear before they decide to breed anything. They were so confident that they could sell them they just did it and it blew up in their face. Actually, I stand corrected here. Two were euthanized, they kept one (who recently died of cancer) and four were rescued. No idea about the other ones who were purchased.

All the females inherited the belly button herniation from the dam too


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## Rott-n-GSDs

soccermom470 said:


> I havnt been around message boards in regard to pets until now so forgive my ignorance. We have intended on buying a male in 2 years and having no more than 2 litters. I know some people are passionate about not breeding but Im not sure why. This will probably link me to many opinions about breeding and the pros and cons. The question will inevitably be asked why do we want to breed? Just think they are cute? Can you handle the medical aspects? What if you cant get rid of your dogs, are you going to give them to already overwhelmed shelters and have them chosen over other dogs needing homes? We have considered all of these questions and have 18 months before we will breed her, if that soon. We are not hoarders, nor do we feel the need for the love of 10 puppies yipping at our heels, we have family and friends who want some, all of whom are dog owners, lovers.


Well... you did already answer some of the questions I usually ask but here's one more (and another poster has already mentioned it):

Are you prepared to lose your gorgeous girl? "Baby mamas" can and DO have complications during whelping, and they can die. Are you prepared to sacrifice her so that your friends/neighbors can have puppies? Wouldn't your time and energy be better spent finding litters in shelters or from reputable, experienced breeders for your family? 

Are you going to do health testing (hips and elbows OFAed, thyroid checked, eyes CERFed?) before breeding her? If not... how can you be sure her puppies won't end up with these dehibilitating conditions? Are you going to do the same for the male?

Are you 100% positive these friends and family can deal with a puppy/adult GSD? For the duration of it's life? Are you willing to stake the puppy's LIFE on it? Because many well meaning backyard breeder's pups end up dying in shelters. That's a fact.

Please just enjoy your beautiful girl and get her spayed at the appropriate time.


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## soccermom470

I will consider everything all have said. Feed her Ol' Roy, $2.99 for a 50lb bag, breed her as often as possible, give left over puppies to whoever...lol warning if you have no sence of humor you will be fired up by this! Joking of course, I love my dog! No need to worry people, she is well taken care of. Opinions vary. Cheers!


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## JazzNScout

Several years ago I was one of those people who just could not believe that purebred dogs (well, especially German shepherd dogs!) ended up in shelters and rescues. _How could that be?!_ I would suggest that you scroll through some GSD rescue sites -- check out the rescue threads here -- and get some info about the number of GSDs that really are PTS in shelters. It is beyond tragic. No matter what people say, you just can't guarantee that the puppies will all get forever homes, then you have to wonder if people getting them will choose to breed them. 
"Just one unaltered female dog and her offspring can produce 67,000 puppies in only six years." Owww!


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## JazzNScout

P.S. Your girl is very cute!


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## Rerun

You'll be shocked how fast all those friends/family disappear when the pups are 8 wks old and ready to go.


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## GSDGunner

soccermom470 said:


> I will consider everything all have said. Feed her Ol' Roy, $2.99 for a 50lb bag, breed her as often as possible, give left over puppies to whoever...lol warning if you have no sence of humor you will be fired up by this! Joking of course, I love my dog! No need to worry people, she is well taken care of. Opinions vary. Cheers!


Opinions vary? *sigh*
I love my dog, he comes from excellent bloodline and champions, and he is well taken care of. Doesn't mean I should run out and stud him to every dam on the planet. 
Oh well, hope you churn out some healthy pups and learn something along the way.
Just remember, breeding pups is not cheap, so be prepared. I'd hate to see something go wrong and you lose your girl as well. And I mean that. 
I had hoped you would take some advice here instead of making jokes. But sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Good luck.


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## carmspack

Love your dog.
But please don't breed her.
First thing I see on a negative is very poor pigment. Lots of bright coming through.
sorry -- that does not take one thing away from her being the best companion in the world and that is what you should enjoy and remember for all time
Carmen


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## soccermom470

If dogs were not bred, in time, all dogs would be the same. Some sort of wolf hybrid, or they would not exist at all. In nature inbreeding was more prevalent than in the case of good breeders who can show a family tree. Kyleigh comes from a verifiable strong family tree, both on her mother and fathers side. Breeding is not a half hazard hobby. To keep a breed strong, it takes reputable breeders who care about the health and well being of the animal, to make the animals that we are all so passionate about. Anyone can choose a dog from a shelter, and God bless those that do! But we love our GSD dogs. Dont down those that want to improve or keep the breed as beautiful and as wanted as they are. This is our 3rd GSD, we are not new to the breed, but we are new to the forum, "bless the internet" lol We do appreciate the feedback but like I said before, opinions vary


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## doggiedad

good luck with the new dog. leave the breeding
to the pros.



soccermom470 said:


> My hunny bought me my beautiful companion. She is my friend, my protector, and hopefully future baby momma to a few litters of puppies


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## Zoeys mom

Breed standards are not opinions- they are preset standards. If you have a dog that physically falls under the breed standard aesthetically, and has proven themselves to have the mental and personality characteristics of the breed via titling than get the proper health testing and begin researching and figuring out what it is YOU can contribute to the breed. 

Everyone thinks their dog is beautiful, smart, and a perfect example of the breed temperament wise- but most of us our wrong hence the need to title the dog in an appropriate venue to prove these characteristics. Once you actually know you have a worthy specimen ask yourself what kinds of dogs you are trying to bring into the world. Will they be show line dogs, schutz dogs, great herders, or all around working dogs. What kind of drives do you want to produce, thresholds, defensiveness, and aggression? Then ask yourself why you want to breed for these qualities and if the dog you have is capable. Again not in your opinion capable, but for the betterment of the breed actually proven- and then in the end what do you have to make it better?

Breeding is more than having a cute nice smart dog. Lots of people have those. Breeding is about taking the breed and focusing on who that breed is, recognizing great and terrible examples of the breed, and honing in on what it is you want to accomplish through your breedings. Learn about drives, defensiveness, aggression, thresholds, and every aspect of the GSD personality. Learn what effects these characteristics have in different venues and why they benefit or deter the dog from being successful. Unfortunately it is possible to own 100 GSD's and never truly understand and learn to recognize these traits.

No one hear is trying to be a Debby Downer I promise. It's just obvious you have a lot to learn about the breed and aren't starting with a female that is in any way breed worthy since she is not titled, OFA'd, and most importantly health tested. Contributing bad genes to the breed has serious consequences so in your plight to produce more awesome GSD's you may just be weakening the gene pool and passing down disease and heatrache to future owners


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## VomBlack

Zoeys mom said:


> Breed standards are not opinions- they are preset standards. If you have a dog that physically falls under the breed standard aesthetically, and has proven themselves to have the mental and personality characteristics of the breed via titling than get the proper health testing and begin researching and figuring out what it is YOU can contribute to the breed.
> 
> Everyone thinks their dog is beautiful, smart, and a perfect example of the breed temperament wise- but most of us our wrong hence the need to title the dog in an appropriate venue to prove these characteristics. Once you actually know you have a worthy specimen ask yourself what kinds of dogs you are trying to bring into the world. Will they be show line dogs, schutz dogs, great herders, or all around working dogs. What kind of drives do you want to produce, thresholds, defensiveness, and aggression? Then ask yourself why you want to breed for these qualities and if the dog you have is capable. Again not in your opinion capable, but for the betterment of the breed actually proven- and then in the end what do you have to make it better?
> 
> Breeding is more than having a cute nice smart dog. Lots of people have those. Breeding is about taking the breed and focusing on who that breed is, recognizing great and terrible examples of the breed, and honing in on what it is you want to accomplish through your breedings. Learn about drives, defensiveness, aggression, thresholds, and every aspect of the GSD personality. Learn what effects these characteristics have in different venues and why they benefit or deter the dog from being successful. Unfortunately it is possible to own 100 GSD's and never truly understand and learn to recognize these traits.
> 
> No one hear is trying to be a Debby Downer I promise. It's just obvious you have a lot to learn about the breed and aren't starting with a female that is in any way breed worthy since she is not titled, OFA'd, and most importantly health tested. Contributing bad genes to the breed has serious consequences so in your plight to produce more awesome GSD's you may just be weakening the gene pool and passing down disease and heatrache to future owners



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## soccermom470

*The German Shepherd is a relatively new breed of dog, with its origin dating to 1899. As part of the Herding group, the German Shepherd is a working dog developed originally for herding and guarding sheep. Because of its strength, intelligence and abilities in obedience training it is often employed in police and military roles around the world.[3] Due to its loyal and protective nature, the German Shepherd is one of the most registered of breeds*. This comes from wikipedia. My point is if this dog was not bred, not even bred, but designed, at some point, most probably by less than educated people about breeding, why is it so unheard of to have puppies from a completely healthy set of GSD's? Why is it so taboo to love your dogs, love your dogs puppies, and love the future that they have with their future owners? Our breeder has it in our paperwork, that if we attempt be become a puppy mill, or sell our puppies to anyone who becomes a puppy mill, they can take the dog back and take us to court to retrieve damages. Unless those of you who have strong opionions about this, have retrieved your GSD from a shelter, then it seems as though your opinions are bias and hypocritical. The GSD was CREATED. It was not a dog that has been bred through the ages like an Irish Wolfhound that has been around since 7000 bc. If you own a GSD you own a created by man dog.


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## KZoppa

soccermom470 said:


> *The German Shepherd is a relatively new breed of dog, with its origin dating to 1899. As part of the Herding group, the German Shepherd is a working dog developed originally for herding and guarding sheep. Because of its strength, intelligence and abilities in obedience training it is often employed in police and military roles around the world.[3] Due to its loyal and protective nature, the German Shepherd is one of the most registered of breeds*. This comes from wikipedia. My point is if this dog was not bred, not even bred, but designed, at some point, most probably by less than educated people about breeding, why is it so unheard of to have puppies from a completely healthy set of GSD's? Why is it so taboo to love your dogs, love your dogs puppies, and love the future that they have with their future owners? Our breeder has it in our paperwork, that if we attempt be become a puppy mill, or sell our puppies to anyone who becomes a puppy mill, they can take the dog back and take us to court to retrieve damages. Unless those of you who have strong opionions about this, have retrieved your GSD from a shelter, then it seems as though your opinions are bias and hypocritical. The GSD was CREATED. It was not a dog that has been bred through the ages like an Irish Wolfhound that has been around since 7000 bc. If you own a GSD you own a created by man dog.


 
all dogs have been selectively bred. You've had at least one response from a respected breeder who has stated that your dog wouldnt be considered breed worthy because of too much bright coming through. Unless you plan to prove your dog by working her in some field and running her through all the expensive health testing, i would advise not breeding her. This attitude you're showing us right now is very backyard breeder of you. EVERY dog has been selectively bred and CREATED. We have breed standards for a reason. Health testing for a reason. I've had a dumb shepherd. I dont want another one and by breeding an unproven dog, you're contributing to possible health issues continuing along with adding more dogs to the world that may or may not be wanted. If you're SERIOUS about breeding her and downright determined to risk her in such a way, ask to study under another REPUTABLE breeder so you can LEARN. Having a litter is expensive. extremely expensive. and its a long process to do it right. Please dont become another backyard breeder.


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## Cassidy's Mom

soccermom470 said:


> Kyleigh comes from a verifiable strong family tree, both on her mother and fathers side.


Can you post her pedigree? Why don't the family and friends who are looking for a puppy just like her go to the breeder you got her from?


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## soccermom470

~The more people I meet and talk to, the more I love my dogs and their intelligence.~

My favorite response so far  Cheers!


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## Zoeys mom

So then what is your take on breeding since you don't share our opinion. I am not goading you here to make you mad by the way I'm honestly curious.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Are you planning to have her OFA'd?


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## carmspack

please , the entire concept of uniform breed, whatever breed you are talking about all began around the same time period , mid to late 1800's.

the "breed" as we know it now is new , but the indigenous regional herding dogs have existed for hundreds of years.

the selection process was usefulness, function. 

this is the one thing in this breed that I do not like . That is the easy marketabilty.

It seems as everyone and their brother and grandparents had been "breeding gsd", and even wolf-hybrids. 

Nobody is saying your dog is not a good dog and should be loved and cared for. But the dog may not be a good GSD. Heck I would say that about my sister's rescue GSD and she knows it. The pooch is a GOOD dog , but a bad GSD. (spayed and well loved).

Carmen


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## Kris10

:thinking:Gee don't you wonder that maybe some of the thousands of members of this board, most of which are long time GSD owners, breeders, trainers, etc...might have a little bit of knowledge to share with you? I am not sure why you are debating this issue when you haven't even begun to educate yourself on the process...
You have no idea how much people want to help you, because this in turn will help the dogs. If you are an "animal lover" surely you will want to listen.
And just out of curiosity, what does "created" mean vs. "bred" to you.


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## Zoeys mom

I have a bad GSD too though we love her to pieces and think she's the best. She has a very low threshold and a lot of defensive drive which equals biter in a nice way She's stunning to look at, GREAT with my kids, and extremely intelligent but.....her temperament sucks! Breeding her would be like passing around a loaded gun telling everyone to pull the trigger because it's not loaded


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## PupperLove

soccermom470 said:


> Why is it so taboo to love your dogs, love your dogs puppies, and love the future that they have with their future owners? The GSD was CREATED. It was not a dog that has been bred through the ages like an Irish Wolfhound that has been around since 7000 bc. If you own a GSD you own a created by man dog.


I am a nice person but I am going to be blunt because I have had to deal with products of bad breeding, uneducated breeding.

The reason it is so taboo is because so many people do it- get a dog, want a litter or two, sell the pups, and the same happens with them. Pretty soon you got a billion health and temperment problems because of everyone breeding their dogs with minimal knowledge. There are many, MANY people here including myself who have had to deal with genetic problems with their dogs and let me tell you it is terrible. It's terrible to have to watch them suffer and not know what to do, to go through stress trying to help them, or have to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to try and correct a problem that shouldn't have even been there in the first place. THAT is why it is taboo. And actually it is a bit offensive to those of us who have had to deal with genetic problems, or rescue/shelter animals. The GSD may have been created by man and it has also been DESTROYED by man. There is such a small percent of dogs that should actually be bred it's about 100% likley that your dog is not one of them. She doesn't fit the standard being that she is MUCH too light in pigment, so why add to the problem of breeding away from the standard that so many are already doing? My dog is gorgeous, he's a firecracker, but he's not perfect. And unless a dog is perfect in almost every way, WHY add to the problem other than to satisfy YOUR needs? Because that's what it comes down to- unless your dog truly is a perfect specimen.

I understand you think that opinions vary, but this isn't really an opinion. It is a fact that GSDs have tons of problems from bad breeding, several of us have had to deal with the heartbreak, and your dog doesn't fit the standard.


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## soccermom470

I'm sure people are talking about pdf for my dog and not something else!! first of all if you are going to post something know what you are talking about! We are not new to GSD breed this is our 3RD!! What do you consider STANDARD? I know people consider the darker color! But, they are pretty is different colors! I want to breed for the breed and history line! Not for a puppy mill or a quick way to make money! I loved GSD's I would in no way harm the breed or my dog Kyleigh! No matter what you think!


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## Wolfgeist

Greetings soccermom470,

Do not be offended by some of the comments and the harshness you may be receiving here. Understand that everyone here is incredibly passionate about the German Shepherd dog. They want nothing but the best for the breed, and act as defenders and guardians of the breed. Listen to what they are saying, because their words are honest and true. Take advice from the reputable breeders that have dedicated their lives to the breed. They know what they are talking about. I can assure you this.

I do not think you should breed your dog. Instead, I recommend getting a couple more puppies over the years if you can afford to have them. Breeding a dog is a major responsibility, and you are responsible for the lives and well-being of each and every puppy you produce. That means if an owner who bought your puppy neglects, abuses or turns your puppy into a puppy mill production service - the fault is yours. You brought that puppy into the world, and you sold it to the owner.

I do not want to upset you or sound abrasive. I just ask that you live a life of honor, and respect the breed and respect your beautiful girl. There are tons of ways to make extra money in this world, breeding is NOT a good way to do that. If your friends and family want puppies, have them adopt from the shelter or purchase from the same breeder you got yours. When you breed without making it your life's goal, you dishonor the breed and dishonor the breeders who have worked so hard to improve the German Shepherd. Let me repeat myself. If you breed your dog and that dog: A. Has a bad pedigree, B. Does not pass all the necessary and IMPORTANT health testing, C. Is not titled, - you are making a huge mistake, and you are dishonoring your dog. Please take the time to truly re-think the decision to breed her. Thank you for reading this.

Kind regards,
- Angel


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## PupperLove

soccermom470 said:


> I'm sure people are talking about pdf for my dog and not something else!! first of all if you are going to post something know what you are talking about! We are not new to GSD breed this is our 3RD!! What do you consider STANDARD? I know people consider the darker color! But, they are pretty is different colors! I want to breed for the breed and history line! Not for a puppy mill or a quick way to make money! I loved GSD's I would in no way harm the breed or my dog Kyleigh! No matter what you think!


I consider the Breed Standard to be standard. Which is what's written on the AKC website which states:

*Color* 
The German Shepherd Dog varies in color, and most colors are permissible. Strong rich colors are preferred. Pale, washed-out colors and blues or livers are _*serious faults*._ A white dog must be _disqualified._


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## Zoeys mom

Again standards are not what WE consider standard- there is a breed standard to define the GSD. Did you even read my post? A BYB is not necessarily someone who over breeds and abuses their dogs- they are someone who breeds their dog without health testing or consideration to the breed standard just because they want to breed. 

Why do you want to breed? What does your dog have to offer? What are her prey, defensive, and other drives like? Whats her threshold like? If you don't know what I'm talking about research these key terms because they are important to the standard and producing healthy well balances dogs. Do you know your dog doesn't carry a recessive gene for a genetic disorder, do you know her hips are good via x-ray and certification of them? Do any of these factors matter to you? If not they should because producing poor quality dogs for the sake of breeding is the reason the GSD has so many temperament and health issues in the first place. And did you mis owning 100 GSD's doesn't make you an expert on the breed and their worthiness? You don't understand the breed, the standard, or characteristics of the GSD. Your dog is beautiful and sweet looking, but bitches die in labor all the time- is it worth it to produce dime a dozen puppies?


----------



## soccermom470

Im the daughter of Kyleighs owners.. I understand that there are various opinions on this site. But you are now degrading people i love for your own opinion. I get one of the dogs. and I love dogs just as much as you all do. We even have a rescue and shes a wonderful dog. shes a foxhound and one of the best dogs i have. But you don't realize dog breeding is an economy just like cars or anything else. But we would put care and compasion into it. Trust me. I can't wait to have tons of puppies to play with i am a huge animal lover. of all kinds of animals. and you can keep your opinions to yourselves.. if your gonna be rude. and kyleigh is a beautiful dog. and i love her light color. besides.. your only seeing a picture. not the real thing. and im telling you nicely that you can get over yourselves


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## soccermom470

also..i would keep all the puppies if i could. i love the german shepherd breed. but you are not gonna degrade my family.


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## JPF

soccermom470 said:


> Im the daughter of Kyleighs owners.. I understand that there are various opinions on this site. But you are now degrading people i love for your own opinion. I get one of the dogs. and I love dogs just as much as you all do. We even have a rescue and shes a wonderful dog. shes a foxhound and one of the best dogs i have. But you don't realize dog breeding is an economy just like cars or anything else. But we would put care and compasion into it. Trust me. I can't wait to have tons of puppies to play with i am a huge animal lover. of all kinds of animals. and you can keep your opinions to yourselves.. if your gonna be rude. and kyleigh is a beautiful dog. and i love her light color. besides.. your only seeing a picture. not the real thing. and im telling you nicely that you can get over yourselves


this in a nutshell is why the GSD has so many health/temperment problems. Despite all the evidence that she should not breed, she will. Sad, but trying to convince her otherwise is a waste of our time.


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## KZoppa

JPF said:


> this in a nutshell is why the GSD has so many health/temperment problems. Despite all the evidence that she should not breed, she will. Sad, but trying to convince her otherwise is a waste of our time.


 
sadly that seems to be the case. classic case of why my i love my dogs and think most people suck.


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## Jessiewessie99

Clearly you are not taking in any of the advice you are recieving. If you truly cared for the breed and its well being you would NOT be breeding. Yes, your dog is beautiful, and yes she is a great companion and we can see you love her, but that is NOT a reason you should be breeding her. Do whats best for HER not YOU!

I have gotten stud offers for Molly alot and many people have told us they wanted puppies from Molly and Tanner. I love both of my dogs very much, theya re beautiful and healthy, but they are NOT of the standard and are NOT breeding material and should never be bred.

There are alot of GSDs in shelters and chances the offspring of your dog or your dog's grandpuppies ending up in a shelter/rescue is high. There is no need for more BYBs. What does your girl have to offer to the breed to make it better?

We can see you love your girl and the breed. It doesn't matter how many GSDs you have had, it doesn't mean you should breed. You are doing s disservice to the breed by doing what you are doing. I am all for educating people so they can become good breeders, but NOT if they are going to be ignorant and not learn how to breed properly. Breeding is NOT an easy task, its not just sticking two dogs together, its is WAY MORE than that and EXPENSIVE.

If you are going to breed, do it responsibly. If not, you have no business breeding.

Your girl is beautiful and I bet she is a great companion. But think about what you are doing, research research and research more.

And no one is degrading you. 

Part of me says troll and part of me says no troll.


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## VomBlack

It really is unfortunate for somebody to really care for the breed, own more than one.. and still have such an indifferent attitude toward preserving the true essence of what makes a GSD a GSD.

This forum really is amazing for how knowledgeable the people here are, and I really would suggest you spend more time reading as you can really start to understand where a lot of us are coming from. We all adore our dogs, but that doesn't mean they all should be bred. It can be difficult to look at our own dogs subjectively because for the most part we all think our dogs are awesome.. and that's partly why working/showing your dogs can help you see where their strengths and weaknesses lie.

But either way at this point it is hard to tell if this is someone's bored attempt at trolling or not. :thinking:


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## missmychance

Soccermom470-

You have a beautiful girl and I'm sure she means the world to you just like all of our gsd's do. I have a gorgeous male named Frodo who I purchased from a byb. They were very nice people with good looking dogs who absolutely loved the breed.

I am ashamed now that I went down that route. When I got him I was not educated in the least about this wonderful breed, I only knew that I loved the way they looked. Since joining this forum, I have learned a lot and still have tons more to learn.

Everyone who has posted is just trying to help you and give you some great advice. You keep bringing up that everyone has opinions, but all the advice that has been given to you is fact. The health and welfare of your dog and any future litters is of the greatest importance.

People have asked you what your girl could offer the breed to make it better and you haven't answered that question. Please take everything that has been said to heart and don't breed your girl. Love her and take the best care possible of her and advise anyone you know that wants a puppy to go through a respectable breeder or a gsd rescue.

Ann


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## Cassidy's Mom

We're still waiting to see her pedigree. You say she has a "*verifiable strong family tree*", and maybe you're right. So go ahead - verify it for us so we can see for ourselves. Won't that prove us all wrong and vindicate you?

I'm also waiting to hear if you're planning on having her OFA'd before breeding her.


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## Cassidy's Mom

soccermom470 said:


> But you don't realize dog breeding is an economy just like cars or anything else.


Oh, yes we do, and that kind of thinking is exactly the problem. Cars don't live and breathe, they don't think or feel. 

If you're a huge animal lover and want to play with a bunch of puppies, why don't you volunteer to help out at an shelter?


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## codmaster

soccermom470 said:


> I will consider everything all have said. Feed her Ol' Roy, $2.99 for a 50lb bag, breed her as often as possible, give left over puppies to whoever...lol warning if you have no sence of humor you will be fired up by this! Joking of course, I love my dog! No need to worry people, she is well taken care of. Opinions vary. Cheers!


Unbelievable!


----------



## codmaster

soccermom470 said:


> Im the daughter of Kyleighs owners.. I understand that there are various opinions on this site. But you are now degrading people i love for your own opinion. I get one of the dogs. and I love dogs just as much as you all do. We even have a rescue and shes a wonderful dog. shes a foxhound and one of the best dogs i have. But you don't realize dog breeding is an economy just like cars or anything else. But we would put care and compasion into it. Trust me. I can't wait to have tons of puppies to play with i am a huge animal lover. of all kinds of animals. and you can keep your opinions to yourselves.. if your gonna be rude. and kyleigh is a beautiful dog. and i love her light color. besides.. your only seeing a picture. not the real thing. and im telling you nicely that you can get over yourselves


More unbelievable!

"dog breeding is an economy " - Are you trying to say that dog breeding is a business and that you want to and expect to make money in it and that is one reason for you to breed your own dogs?

In that case you should definetly buy a male GSD from another BYB so that you won't have to debate who the stud dog should be (and more importantly have to pay any stud fee - you can just leave the two dogs in the back yard together until the blessed event happens.

Good luck!


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## RogueRed26

soccermom470 said:


> Im the daughter of Kyleighs owners.. I understand that there are various opinions on this site. But you are now degrading people i love for your own opinion. I get one of the dogs. and I love dogs just as much as you all do. We even have a rescue and shes a wonderful dog. shes a foxhound and one of the best dogs i have. But you don't realize dog breeding is an economy just like cars or anything else. But we would put care and compasion into it. Trust me. I can't wait to have tons of puppies to play with i am a huge animal lover. of all kinds of animals. and you can keep your opinions to yourselves.. if your gonna be rude. and kyleigh is a beautiful dog. and i love her light color. besides.. your only seeing a picture. not the real thing. and im telling you nicely that you can get over yourselves


Interesting that you come on this forum to announce your new puppy as your "friend, protector, and hopefully future baby momma to a few litters of puppies " With a smiley face as if that would make it better. Your intentions are obvious. You simply see a friend who will pop out a few puppies for you in order to make a few bucks. What kind of friend are you to see that for your dog at the age of 5 months? She is a baby and that's all you can think of, breeding! 

You say your dog comes from strong lines, though I don't see you posting or mentioning her lineage. Where's her lineage? Show us, so we can see the lines that make her worthy of breeding. It also has been pointed out to you that your dog's coat coloration is not a desired trait of the breed; it does not make her less of a companion or wonderful pet, though she should not be bred. So far, your dog's breeding quality is reducing. 

Its sad that you are comparing your friend to a car. An inanimate object. A thing! She is a living breathing creature that should be respected and loved, not seen as a money making machine. 

No one hear is trying to degrade you. No one has even made any statements towards your family. If anythinng, we are simply responding to the horrendous and sarcastic statements you have been making about your dog. People who accuse others of certain statements or behaviors are usually known for simply identifying themselves. Psychology.

Though, you say your dog came from your family. Well, that's good for you. Though, it makes no impact as to whether or not that makes her worthy of being bred. Anyone can throw two dogs together in a yard and try to call themselves "good breeders". 

You claim to be a German shepherd enthusiast, though your intentions have come off unacceptable. You do not want to perfect the breed, you simply want to make a buck and spread the world with more puppies that might end up in unfitting homes or worst the shelter. You have rescued and have seen the outcome of over breeding, but this does not make you not even once second guess your decision of breeding.

I feel sorry for your dog and the future puppies she will have. You simply will be making your dreams come true by becoming what all of us can't stand, another BYB ruining a good breed. Ignorance is not bliss.


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## LaRen616

You do* NOT* love the GSD breed.


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## LaRen616

Go take a look at your local animal shelter, look at all the dogs there, there might even be some GSD's there, guess what, they most likely wont be leaving there alive. I'm sure some of your byb puppies will be in there too someday because I highly doubt that you will keep all of the puppies that dont find homes.

Your kind of thinking is why I hate people. ​


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

LaRen616 said:


> Go take a look at your local animal shelter, look at all the dogs there, there might even be some GSD's there, guess what, they most likely wont be leaving there alive. I'm sure some of your byb puppies will be in there too someday because I highly doubt that you will keep all of the puppies that dont find homes.
> 
> Your kind of thinking is why I hate people. ​


Considering they are in Charleston SC she could go in a 100 mile circle and pluck double digit #s of GSDs out of the shelters each week. More than enough puppies for the family member to play with too. Because PB puppies get dumped too. 

But that's not the only reason not to breed, as has been stated.


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## PaddyD

LaRen616 said:


> Please do not breed your dog, there are already way too many animals dying in shelters everyday because people "wanted a puppy from their dog" or they wanted to make a quick buck or their unaltered animal got out and bred with another dog or strays that keep reproducing. So please go take a look at your local animal shelter, more than half of those dogs in there will not be making it back out.
> 
> Yes, and please don't have any babies. We already have an over-crowded planet. There are plenty of needy and starving babies available.
> 
> What nonsense.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

PaddyD how do dogs dying = nonsense? And what a false equivalency...

Regardless of whether you think that is nonsense are not there are NO good reasons for breeding this girl far beyond that. None! It's astounding.


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## LaRen616

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> PaddyD how do dogs dying = nonsense? And what a false equivalency...
> 
> Regardless of whether you think that is nonsense are not there are NO good reasons for breeding this girl far beyond that. None! It's astounding.


:thumbup:


----------



## LaRen616

PaddyD said:


> LaRen616 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not breed your dog, there are already way too many animals dying in shelters everyday because people "wanted a puppy from their dog" or they wanted to make a quick buck or their unaltered animal got out and bred with another dog or strays that keep reproducing. So please go take a look at your local animal shelter, more than half of those dogs in there will not be making it back out.
> 
> *Yes, and please don't have any babies. We already have an over-crowded planet. *There are plenty of needy and starving babies available.
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been saying that for years. There ARE too many people in the world already, not to mention there are enough bad behaving kids in the world. Every day we take up more and more land and one day the only animals you will see will be the ones in zoos because they wont have homes anymore. I also highly dislike children.
Click to expand...


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## GSDGunner

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> PaddyD how do dogs dying = nonsense? And what a false equivalency...
> 
> Regardless of whether you think that is nonsense are not there are NO good reasons for breeding this girl far beyond that. None! It's astounding.


I read that as he was saying this woman breeding her dog was nonsense.
Not dogs dying. :shrug:


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## gsdraven

PaddyD said:


> LaRen616 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not breed your dog, there are already way too many animals dying in shelters everyday because people "wanted a puppy from their dog" or they wanted to make a quick buck or their unaltered animal got out and bred with another dog or strays that keep reproducing. So please go take a look at your local animal shelter, more than half of those dogs in there will not be making it back out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and please don't have any babies. We already have an over-crowded planet. There are plenty of needy and starving babies available.
> 
> What nonsense.
Click to expand...

Linda, I think it's because it was quoted wrong. It should have looked like this which makes the message a little more clear. The fact that he is trying to say that breeding dogs and having babies is even remotely the same thing is just asinine.


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## GSDGunner

soccermom470 said:


> Our breeder has it in our paperwork, that if we attempt be become a puppy mill, or sell our puppies to anyone who becomes a puppy mill, they can take the dog back and take us to court to retrieve damages.


I guess there was nothing in the paperwork prohibiting becoming a backyard breeder. So you're good to go. 

Seriously, is there a breeder on this board with a clause worded like this in their contract?


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## GSDGunner

gsdraven said:


> Linda, I think it's because it was quoted wrong. It should have looked like this which makes the message a little more clear. The fact that he is trying to say that breeding dogs and having babies is even remotely the same thing is just asinine.


Yeah I agree, I figured the baby thing was just sarcasm.
I was reading the "nonsense" part as to the breeding of "dogs". 
That's all I was clarifying.


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## Kris10

GSDGunner said:


> I guess there was nothing in the paperwork prohibiting becoming a backyard breeder. So you're good to go.
> 
> Seriously, is there a breeder on this board with a clause worded like this in their contract?


No no- GSDs are CREATED, not bred! She will be a backyard creator.
Read her intro thread--- I would be astonished ( and very, very sad) if this is not a troll ....


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## GSDGunner

Kris10 said:


> No no- GSDs are CREATED, not bred! She will be a backyard creator.
> Read her intro thread--- I would be astonished ( and very, very sad) if this is not a troll ....


Actually I think GSD's are "designed". So she'll be a backyard designer. Oh wait, that would make her a landscaper. :thinking:

I'd be happy if it's a troll, then there is one less dog having cute wittle puppies.


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## Kris10

GSDGunner said:


> Actually I think GSD's are "designed". So she'll be a backyard designer. Oh wait, that would make her a landscaper. :thinking:
> 
> I'd be happy if it's a troll, then there is one less dog having cute wittle puppies.


:laugh: :laugh::laugh:


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## Courtney

JPF said:


> this in a nutshell is why the GSD has so many health/temperment problems. Despite all the evidence that she should not breed, she will. Sad, but trying to convince her otherwise is a waste of our time.


I agree with you JPF & it's very sad. This is a watse of time trying to convince her otherwise. My fingers are crossed this is a joke to get members here upset which is better than her actually breeding this dog.


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## soccermom470

I really thought this would be a great place to talk to other GSD owners who love their dogs as much as we love ours! But, I was so wrong, everyone has an opinion that's great and now we are being labeled as BYB. And for some people to say we dont love the GSD breed really has no idea how much we do! Maybe some people should take a class on how to talk to people! Have a great day!


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## LaRen616

soccermom470 said:


> I really thought this would be a great place to talk to other GSD owners who love their dogs as much as we love ours! But, I was so wrong, everyone has an opinion that's great and now we are being labeled as BYB. And for some people to say we dont love the GSD breed really has no idea how much we do! Maybe some people should take a class on how to talk to people! Have a great day!


I wish your dogs the best of luck.


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## soccermom470

Thank you! LaRen 616, I hope that was sincere!


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## LaRen616

soccermom470 said:


> Thank you! LaRen 616, I hope that was sincere!


It is sincere, I hope the best for them. I hope your female doesn't die from complications, I hope she has healthy pups and I hope they all find permanent forever homes and if they dont I hope you will stand by them and keep them. I hope they never have to sit in a scary shelter and wonder why they are there. I hope they get the chance to live a long healthy life and not have their life ended at the age of 2 or 3 due to euthanasia at a shelter.


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## soccermom470

I would always keep them from going to a shelter! We go to the shelters every week to see if there are any there! The GSD's are always the first to go! Ususally to a police officer to work!


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## firfly

soccermom470 said:


> I would always keep them from going to a shelter! We go to the shelters every week to see if there are any there! The GSD's are always the first to go! Ususally to a police officer to work!


Ok, thats great but lets not bring the police into this really, most police departments no longer do their own training, no they spend $28,000.00 on a class III dog. The ones that do dont pick them up from a shelter, temperment is way to important in the police and protection fields, so thats oh $2,000.00 on the cheap side. The only way you can make sure you cover the pups is to have it in a contract and then spend the money to have them microed with you the co owner always. Do you?


----------



## gsdraven

soccermom470 said:


> I would always keep them from going to a shelter! We go to the shelters every week to see if there are any there! The GSD's are always the first to go! Ususally to a police officer to work!


That is really not true. It is rare to find a GSD in a shelter with the proper temperament to be do police work. Most shelters can't tell you where the dogs go when pulled so no idea how you could even know that.


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## soccermom470

In some states this is true! But, I also know that most police departments go and do the training themselves the dog has to listen to one commanding officer! I know this first hand I know some of the officers who have done just that!


----------



## codmaster

LaRen616 said:


> PaddyD said:
> 
> 
> 
> ................... I also highly dislike children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel about puppies?
Click to expand...


----------



## LaRen616

codmaster said:


> LaRen616 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel about puppies?
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE puppies, all puppies. :wub:
> 
> But that does not mean that they should have been born.
Click to expand...


----------



## codmaster

LaRen616 said:


> codmaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE puppies, all puppies. :wub:
> 
> But that does not mean that they should have been born.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same for kids as well, isn't it? Neither one has a choice about whether they are born.
Click to expand...


----------



## Courtney

Ashton Kutcher please reveal yourself, I'm sure we are all being punked!


----------



## GSDGunner

soccermom470 said:


> I really thought this would be a great place to talk to other GSD owners who love their dogs as much as we love ours! But, I was so wrong, everyone has an opinion that's great and now we are being labeled as BYB. And for some people to say we dont love the GSD breed really has no idea how much we do! Maybe some people should take a class on how to talk to people! Have a great day!


No one questions that you love your dog. It's _because_ we love our dogs that you've gotten the response you have gotten. Instead of listening and taking in the advice, you got sarcastic and bullheaded. That's when it turned. You could have learned how to breed responsibly, but instead fought and rebutted everything that was said. 
I dare you to go to any GSD forum and announce you plan on breeding your female, for the reasons you stated, and see what kind of responses you get. I promise, you will not get the pat on the back you think you deserve. 

You're being labeled a BYB because you will be a BYB. 
If you don't do health testing, OFA, titles, and prove your dog breed worthy, that makes you a BYB. Sorry, can't help the facts on that one.
It is what it is, and you are what you are, a BYB.

Good luck!


----------



## LaRen616

GSDGunner said:


> No one questions that you love your dog. It's _because_ we love our dogs that you've gotten the response you have gotten. Instead of listening and taking in the advice, you got sarcastic and bullheaded. That's when it turned. You could have learned how to breed responsibly, but instead fought and rebutted everything that was said.
> I dare you to go to any GSD forum and announce you plan on breeding your female, for the reasons you stated, and see what kind of responses you get. I promise, you will not get the pat on the back you think you deserve.
> 
> You're being labeled a BYB because you will be a BYB.
> If you don't do health testing, OFA, titles, and prove your dog breed worthy, that makes you a BYB. Sorry, can't help the facts on that one.
> It is what it is, and you are what you are, a BYB.
> 
> Good luck!


:thumbup:


----------



## valreegrl

Take a look at these links then tell me you want to put more poorly bred puppies out there (stating purely bred because we don't know otherwise - you haven't provided pedigree to refute)

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Summerville, SC | Zelo

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Summerville, SC | Cooper

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Moncks Corner, SC | Anka

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Holly Hill, SC | Jolee'

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Holly Hill, SC | Tye-Great Dog!!

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Holly Hill, SC | Cheyenne

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | German Shepherd Dog | Holly Hill, SC | Baby-So Sweet and loving

Petfinder Adoptable Dog | White German Shepherd | Bluffton, SC | SADIE

These GSDs are all in your area, and only a few of 38 pages! And only what made it OUT of the shelter.


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## Cassidy's Mom

soccermom470 said:


> I really thought this would be a great place to talk to other GSD owners who love their dogs as much as we love ours! But, I was so wrong, everyone has an opinion that's great and now we are being labeled as BYB.


That's because it's exactly what you'll be if you decide to go ahead and breed your perfectly nice pet dog. You won't show us her pedigree so we can see if it's as good as you say, you haven't responded about whether you're going to OFA her (which is an absolute bare minimum that should be done before making a decision to breed a GSD) - do you even know what that is? She does not fit the breed standard as she has very washed out pigment. People who do not care about the standard for their breed, (you think it's just an "opinion"? ) do not do health testing, and know nothing about the pedigree, are BYBs, no matter how much they love their dogs.


----------



## GSDGunner

And the more I think about it, I am regretting getting Gunner neutered.
He came from champion bloodlines, the breeder did health testing, OFA certs, titled her dogs, the whole shebang. Bred by a reputable breeder. 
Heck I have a Dallas grandson. What was I thinking? I could have made a fortune. Surely all my family and friends would want a Gunner offspring.

Oh wait, I know what I was thinking. I am not a breeder, my dog is above the breed standard in height, there are too many dogs in shelters as it is and what would breeding my "champion bloodlines" dog accomplish?

Do you think that I should have bred my dog, simply because I could?
I have a sports car in my garage that can go 150mph. Does it mean I should go 150mph? No, that's reckless now isn't it.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
But then again, it doesn't matter what anybody says, you will do what you want anyway.
I hope to God, you do your research and try, TRY to become a reputable breeder of this breed we all love.


----------



## Lin




----------



## soccermom470

Not being bullheaded! Will not be a BYB! Maybe the baby momma was not a good intro to oursleves, to the forum. Fine, we will take the blame for that! We havea sense of humor, maybe some people dont! We have received feedback and have posted back, maybe that was wrong too! Some things said have been harsh some not so much. I know everyone here wants to have the best GSD's out there! Like I have stated before everyone has opinions and we do also! But, for some to think we dont care about the breed or love the breed just amazes me! I love looking and the different colors of the breed and seeing all the members dogs! Its great, I do think there are trolls out there who just like to pick and be cruel just like in everyday life! The facts are no one knows us, and for people to judge or label still just makes me wonder what they do for a living! I do take everything that is said to heart, maybe that's just me! Thank you for your opinions!


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## GSDGunner

> still just makes me wonder what they do for a living!


What does what anyone here does for a living have anything to do with this?

You want to know what I do? I have no problem telling you.

My husband and I own a franchise tool distributorship, that for the sake of privacy, I will not reveal.
My husband runs the daily part and I do the financial. I was able to retire from my 25 year job in the car business in 2004 due to the success of the business. I have severe back problems, so being able to leave a desk job was essential for me.

So does that make me more qualified to state my opinion? I mean, I have a successful business so that makes a difference....right?


----------



## chinamom2

soccermom470 said:


> Our breeder has it in our paperwork, that if we attempt be become a puppy mill, or sell our puppies to anyone who becomes a puppy mill, they can take the dog back and take us to court to retrieve damages.


OK, first you say that your hunny bought you the dog.

Then you say that your breeder had you sign paperwork that you wouldn't become a puppymill.

Next you say that you are the daughter of Kyleigh's owners. Are you the owner or are your parents? 

If your parents produced the dog, I sincerely doubt you would have signed a contract with them over puppymill issues.

Lots of inconsistences in you story. 

Leads me to think either a troll or an adolescent fantasizing over having puppies. Lots of immaturity here and my sympathy goes to the puppy.


----------



## LaRen616

soccermom470 said:


> The facts are no one knows us, and for people to judge or label still just makes me wonder what they do for a living!


I work in the Imaging Department at a Cancer Hospital.

I get to meet all kinds of patients, I get to learn about them and their life, I get attached to them and I suffer heartbreak every time I lose one that I care about and that has happened many times in the 4 years that I have worked there. So I am very sensitive to people and animals that die when they shouldn't. 

It's not fair and it's not right.


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## Kay

My gal comes from nice working lines. She's intelligent, has a wonderful temperament, she LOVES to work... but I'm never going to breed her. 

The reason being, I'm not a qualified breeder. I don't have enough knowledge to improve the breed (the real goal of a reputable breeder). I don't have her hips certified - just because her parents were good, it doesn't mean hers are good enough. I don't have the time for 10 puppies, and I don't want to risk losing her because I adore her too much.

The main reason though, is I don't have enough time or know enough to improve the bloodlines of the GSD. There are too many puppies (and kittens too from this kind of attitude) dying in shelters every year. Why would you want to add to the problem?

If your friends and family want a GSD, there are tons in shelters that they could give a second chance at life too. Or maybe direct them to the breeder where you got your gal.... just please don't breed your girl for that... she's a pretty girl, but please don't.


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## Courtney

I'll bite because I made a "hope this is a joke" comment.

I'm a Human Resource Generalist for a Aerospace company.


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## Zoeys mom

Soccermom, No one here has tried to be mean but think about it. You say hi I want to breed my girl. So we say what's her pedigree, do you plan to do health testing, will you have her hips certified? And you don't answer. We ask what qualities she has to lend to the breed, what her drives are like, thresholds, and overall temperament, and again you don't answer. We ask if you plan to have her titled in some venue to prove breed worthiness and we're still waiting for a response. 

You say you care about the breed and while I am sure you do in your mind you don't know the breed you care about. You say your not a BYB, but offer no info on pedigree, hips. health, or temperament. Maybe you don't know a BYB is not necessarily some dirty poop fill hole where countless pups are born for profit? A BYB is also someone like you who loves their dog, but doesn't understand how real dog breeding goes. They don't care about pedigree, couldn't read one to save their life, don't title their dogs, or do health and hip testing. BYB's take the dogs they have and throw them together to make cute puppies because they are cute, and because they are good examples of the breed. That shows a lack of respect for the breed. and not in my opinion thats in all actuality.

If you want to be told what you want to hear to validate your decision you are not in right place. That doesn't make us mean or nasty, or show a failure to communicate on our part- that shows we care. Join a dog club and get to know the breed, see if your girl has what it takes to work, and get her health and hip certs. done. Oh yeah and answer our questions please- maybe we are totally misunderstanding the situation. Communication is all about explaining your intention and how you are going to go about it which you have not done


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## Cassidy's Mom

soccermom470 said:


> Will not be a BYB!


Breeding indiscriminately is what BYBs do. If you breed indiscrimately, then that'e exactly what you'll be. Simply saying it ain't so doesn't make it not true. So far you've posted nothing that shows you've put any thought into what makes your dog more breedworthy than any other dog, so how can you expect people to respond any differently than they have? 



> But, for some to think we dont care about the breed or love the breed just amazes me!


People who truly love a breed will take care to only perpetuate it by breeding the very best examples. What makes your dog one of the best? You've repeatedly refused to answer that question, and until you do you can't expect anyone here to support your decision. You care about your dog, I have no doubt, but you do not care about the breed in general, your actions are showing that much louder than your words could ever speak. You just want what you want and you're going to go ahead and do it, no matter what anyone says. 

I love my dogs very very much, and I've loved this breed since I got my first shepherd in 1986. But I've never breed ANY of them, even though I've had many people try to convince me to, and say they want a puppy from my dogs. Halo was getting propositioned when she was only 7 months old! And Keefer is so ridiculously gorgeous that I'm constantly asked if he's neutered, and when I say he is they tell me it's a shame.


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## Zoeys mom

Oh and I'll bite on the profession comment even though I hope I wasn't rude. I have a Master's in Applied Science and Health Care Administration as well as a Master's in the biological study of immunology, and a Bachelor's in psychology- I was a student as a profession for awhile,lol Then after graduating last year I realized I wasn't ready to go work full time away from my children so I got my insurance license and am a bail bondsman


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## soccermom470

First of all I own Kyleigh, never said I got her from my parents. We are going to post her pedigree and do all of the testing on her and her future sire! Like I said before we are new to the forum and the baby momma was wrong. Sorry, I do appreciate all of what everyone has said in the last few days! I do want healthy pups! Kyleigh is only 5 months old right now, we have been doing lots of reading and learning everyday more and more about the breed itself! I know everyones heart and love for the breed is in what you are saying. This is my 3rd GSD and I've loved all of them. This is the first bitch I have owned and excited about her! We are enjoying everyday with her. Thanks again for comments and I know everyone means well!


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## Kris10

soccermom470 said:


> Im the daughter of Kyleighs owners.. I understand that there are various opinions on this site. But you are now degrading people i love for your own opinion. I get one of the dogs. and I love dogs just as much as you all do. We even have a rescue and shes a wonderful dog. shes a foxhound and one of the best dogs i have. But you don't realize dog breeding is an economy just like cars or anything else. But we would put care and compasion into it. Trust me. I can't wait to have tons of puppies to play with i am a huge animal lover. of all kinds of animals. and you can keep your opinions to yourselves.. if your gonna be rude. and kyleigh is a beautiful dog. and i love her light color. besides.. your only seeing a picture. not the real thing. and im telling you nicely that you can get over yourselves


:shrug:


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## soccermom470

The daughter of Kyleighs owners is my daughter! Thanks!


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## Jessiewessie99

I have a headache.

Anyways, I am a College Student as right now and a shelter volunteer.


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## onyx'girl

I think this thread needs soccermoms name as auther of this thread on the first post, not konotashi. Konotashi isn't the thread starter/confusing to those that may think s/he started it.


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## Jax08

Holy ....


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## Cassidy's Mom

A whole bunch of posts went missing... :thinking:


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## Zoeys mom

LOL Have you been saving that emoticon? I love it


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## gsdraven

Cassidy's Mom said:


> A whole bunch of posts went missing... :thinking:


I thought that too when I came back on after training class.

Explanation: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...5-month-old-future-protector.html#post2071923


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## Jax08

Why is there a part 2 to this thread?

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...gh-5-month-old-future-protector-part-2-a.html


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## Zoeys mom

Because this one got sooo off topic they split it into an intro thread and a breeding thread hence the missing posts


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## gsdraven

Jax08 said:


> Why is there a part 2 to this thread?
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...gh-5-month-old-future-protector-part-2-a.html


Explanation is in the link posted above. The mod that split everything off of the Picture thread couldn't merge them together.


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## GSDGunner

But the initiator of the thread is not Konotashi.


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## Konotashi

That's weird - I went under "My Threads" and it said this was mine.


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## trudy

Soccermom 470, congrats on owning such a pretty girl. I'm sure you are very busy socializing and training her. My suggestion is don't worry right now about her pedigree, or breeding plans. Concentrate on training her to the highest level you can. Then enter her in a few obedience trials, get a title or 2 on her, Keep her away from all male dogs, even very tiny ones while she is in heat. When she turns 2 have her hips and elbows x-rayed and sent to OFA. Hopefully you will have very good news and she will certify. By this time you will probably have a couple of obedience titles as well, and maybe you've become interested in some other activities like agility, sheep herding, tracking, that she might like and excel at any of these. It is at this point that you can look at her and realize the great amount of love you feel for her, the great amount of time and training you have put in, then you can ask yourself, can I risk her life??? This is when you can book the spay, if that is not your choice, by then you will have met and befriended lots of other doggy people, hopefully some great German Shepherd kennels and they can evaluate and help you in your decisions. Good luck and enjoy and love her, she is the same puppy you fell in love with and she deserves your love and training.


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## DianaB

PupperLove said:


> The reason it is so taboo is because so many people do it- get a dog, want a litter or two, sell the pups, and the same happens with them. Pretty soon you got a billion health and temperment problems because of everyone breeding their dogs with minimal knowledge. There are many, MANY people here including myself who have had to deal with genetic problems with their dogs and let me tell you it is terrible. It's terrible to have to watch them suffer and not know what to do, to go through stress trying to help them, or have to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to try and correct a problem that shouldn't have even been there in the first place. THAT is why it is taboo. And actually it is a bit offensive to those of us who have had to deal with genetic problems, or rescue/shelter animals. The GSD may have been created by man and it has also been DESTROYED by man. There is such a small percent of dogs that should actually be bred it's about 100% likley that your dog is not one of them. She doesn't fit the standard being that she is MUCH too light in pigment, so why add to the problem of breeding away from the standard that so many are already doing? My dog is gorgeous, he's a firecracker, but he's not perfect. And unless a dog is perfect in almost every way, WHY add to the problem other than to satisfy YOUR needs? Because that's what it comes down to- unless your dog truly is a perfect specimen.


I second that. I bought my puppy 4 1/2 years ago at a 'reputable breeder' who has been in business for 20 years. I should have gone to the pound and gotten a mutt and saved my pocketbook... nothing but health problems the entire time we have her which has, in this economy, wiped out our savings. Her temperment is OK, but she is reactive. We love her and don't regret getting her at all, just wish the breeder had been more forthcoming about the issues. I had some feedback from other board members who were able to look at the pedigree and they said they would have NEVER bread these two with the issues they've had. Thankfully for Siena, we're in it for the long haul and can expect many many more dollars out the window while we try to 'fix' what we can.

I didn't know then what I know now and this board has been a wealth of knowledge. In the beginning, I took it with a grain of salt, but now, it is my primary source for information - and good information, actually awesome information. 

Good luck and I look forward to seeing the pedigree as Cassidy'sMom has mentioned.


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## lhczth

*Kyleigh 5 month old future protector breeding thread*

My hunny bought me my beautiful companion. She is my friend, my protector, and hopefully future baby momma to a few litters of puppies 










Admin Note: This is a combination and extention of a thread started in the picture forum by Soccermom470.


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## GSDGunner

I am so confused with these threads now. They were split into two with the wrong member listed as the originator and now the original post is on the last page.
I hope this doesn't start the debate all over again after soccermom concluded she was wrong and won't breed her dog.


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## lhczth

*Kyleigh 5 month old future protector breeding thread*

My hunny bought me my beautiful companion. She is my friend, my protector, and hopefully future baby momma to a few litters of puppies 










Admin Note: This is the breeding discussion of the thread from the picture forum started by soccermom470.


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## vat

I am so lost now :crazy:


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## onyx'girl

GSDGunner said:


> I am so confused with these threads now. They were split into two with the wrong member listed as the originator and now the original post is on the last page.
> I hope this doesn't start the debate all over again* after soccermom concluded she was wrong and won't breed her dog*.


The dog has already been bred....
I'm wondering why we have to give more exposure to a thread that clearly isn't what a responsible breeder should be doing....and either supporting the decision or ranting about the way the breeder decided to do so, thread should be locked and the breeder should now start a thread asking other experienced breeders for help with the whelp and raising of the expected litter. Otherwise it will just head south.
This thread has run its course and a bumpy one it was.


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## jakeandrenee

:thumbup:
Agreed


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Jane - this is not the White dog named Black that was bred, this is the 5 month old that hopefully will not be bred. 

As soon as I get confirmation that this is correct, I will lock it. 

People can click on the OP's name to read any threads written by her since this one - picture section thus far.


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## onyx'girl

Oh, yep, more confusion on my part....too many of this same story going on lately!! (+ my cold meds are messing with my head)
Thanks Jean


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Okay - so locking this - people can read it, check out her picture thread after reading the resolution here FIRST!


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