# Proper topline- sloping back in Working Line dogs?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I've seen a lot of dogs like this lately:

Hanach Jipo-Me









Even though I do _not_ like a sloping topline in show line dogs, I have to admit that I kind of like the looks of this dog. I think even Pan (who I love so much) has a sloping topline (though Pan's is much straighter/stronger looking than this dog). 

So I'm curious- is this dog's topline correct? The standard indicates a "straight, level" topline, which I don't think this is... I feel like as I look more and more into WL GSDs, I'm seeing a lot of dogs with backs like this.

Thoughts?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The topline appears to slope because of the way the dog is stacked, and the angulation in the hind legs. If the dog was standing square, he'd probably have a fairly level topline.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't like super steep croups.

The dog in the photo is stacked in such a way that it accentuates a steeper topline. He's over stretched in the back, IMO, and he looks to be sort of curving/leaning toward the camera which would make him look overall more square.

Personally I like a topline that slopes a bit and I like a nice, rounded croup but not too short or steep (both problems in WGSL and some WL I believe). I'm OK with a tad bit of overall curve to the topline. Not a huge fan of the dog in the photo but again, I'd have to see a better stack or see the dog in person.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Freestep said:


> The topline appears to slope because of the way the dog is stacked, and the angulation in the hind legs. If the dog was standing square, he'd probably have a fairly level topline.


I've heard that argument, but I don't agree. Is not the standard written against a dog that is in the stacked position? Yes, if the dog wasn't stacked, his back wouldn't be sloped. True. But he is stacked, and his back isn't level- which the standard says it should be. Have I misunderstood the standard?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The topline should be straight, a consistent line from withers to croup with no humps or dips. But it should not be "level" in terms of parallel with the ground. There should be some downward slope when the dog is stacked, but it should flow straight and seamlessly. The degree of slope will depend both on the manner in which the dog is stacked and the angulation of the rear end.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Freestep said:


> The topline appears to slope because of the way the dog is stacked, and the angulation in the hind legs. If the dog was standing square, he'd probably have a fairly level topline.


This is what I was thinking as well. Gorgeous dog!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I do agree that this dog has a steep croup and I agree that he's _slightly_ over stretched in back. But moving his back leg forward an inch certainly isn't going to raise his butt up much...


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> The topline should be straight, a consistent line from withers to croup with no humps or dips. *But it should not be "level" in terms of parallel with the ground.* There should be some downward slope when the dog is stacked, but it should flow straight and seamlessly. The degree of slope will depend both on the manner in which the dog is stacked and the angulation of the rear end.


Oh! This is the clarification I needed. Thanks Chris!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

wildo said:


> But he is stacked, and his back isn't level- which the standard says it should be. Have I misunderstood the standard?


Yes. Level does not mean parallel to the ground. The German/International version of the standard actually calls for straight, firm and "gently sloping" and makes no reference to "level".


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Chris - isn't there a standard on the degree of slope? I thought I read that once.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

23 degrees is the ideal slope of the croup, but there is no number assigned to the back overall, just that area.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks everyone for the info. Ask and you shall receive, huh? Awesome stuff...

Opps... I guess this dog is female. Doh!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wildo said:


> Is not the standard written against a dog that is in the stacked position?


I don't know about that. I think the German standard was written before they started the practice of stacking with one leg forward and one back.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Oh! well, I certainly didn't know that...


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

And when was that?


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

The dogs have been standing in this current stack position for many, many, MANY years. As early as 1920, if not earlier than that (hard to find pictures before then)


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I am not sure when they started doing the signature GSD stack, but in the very oldest photos I've seen, the dogs are standing fairly square. I assume the standard was written back amongst those very oldest of photos. Does anyone know the year the standard was written?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

This illustrates what I am talking about:

Pictures of progenies for V Horand von Grafrath (Hektor Linksrhein)

All these dogs are standing fairly square. Horand von Grafath was born in 1895, so all these dogs would be pre-1920's.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Chris...*excellent explanation*....
Personally....I like the female in the picture.....I don't think she is "over or extreme" anything.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

robinhuerta said:


> Personally....I like the female in the picture.....I don't think she is "over or extreme" anything.


I also think I like her. She has a front that is too uncommon in WLs, still a bit short in forearm, I think, but overall way better than the typical "short forearm WL front" we see a lot of. The rear looks pretty good to me other than the steep croup. Plus, come on, she's a gorgeous dark sable!


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## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

Love her. Very nice looking dog. I don't know what the standard says, but I know what I like.


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