# Want a Pup in WA



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Hello! So glad to have found this forum!

Within the next year or so, I'd like to get a GSD puppy. Of course I'd like to have a healthy, beautiful dog, but my main concern is temperament. I have a 4-year-old small daughter. She is excellent and gentle with animals. I may also have grandchildren sometime in the next 5 years (I hope) since my other children are older/grown, so there could be babies and toddlers coming in and out. I hope to find a breeder with an excellent reputation for dogs that are not aggressive. What's my best option to find a pup that will grow up and not bite, nip, growl etc at children and will be safe with them? I am willing to do plenty of training and socializing but I think starting with a great pup is key. Suggestions?


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, no puppy or dog should ever growl. If they do, something is either really wrong with their brain or their upbringing (90% is the latter). If you go with a puppy, the nipping and biting will happen no matter what. Some puppy will genetically be more bitey than others but all puppies - no matter how "calm" the parents are - will nip and bite throughout their puppyhood. So just understand that it will happen and you need to be patient and vigilant with the pup (never leave the pup with the kids unsupervised).

I'm not sure if you have considered this but another option is to adopt an adult GSD. With adults, the temperament is by and large set. What you see is what you get. So they are either going to be good with kids or they are not. With puppies it's more challenging and unpredictable.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Jason LinWell, no puppy or dog should ever growl. ...


I have to disagree with this very strongly. A growl is a warning & to be heeded. Pups growl in play so do adult dogs. There is a lot of thought now that you do not want to extinguish a growl because you will then have a dog who will be reluctant to warn.

What a person with kids/toddlers wants is a very mellow dog. This isn't so much lines as getting a breeder who knows how to select a dog/pup suitable for the situation.

What I would say is first and foremost you need a very good breeder.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, if a pup growls (not play growl but the "get the heck away from me" growl) then I think the person has done something wrong with the pup.. You have done something to put him in a bad situation where he is so freaked out that he feels he has no choice but to get defensive. 

Now, if you haven't done anything to the pup and he's just growling for no reason, then I say he is just wired wrong.

But, yes, middle - to clarify I'm just talking about defensive growls here. Play growls are perfectly normal. My corgi is growling at me right now because I'm typing and not playing tug with her. Aroo .. aroo ... grrrr ... aroo ...


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I'm not so much worried about puppy bites. I am concerned about an adult dog flipping out and biting a child. Maybe I am naive or just uneducated on this topic so forgive me, but seeing in the news when a family dog suddenly attacks a baby or child and the child is in the hospital or killed, worries me. Often the owners say the dog never showed any aggression before, they trusted and loved the dog, it was the kid's best friend, etc.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhere
> What a person with kids/toddlers wants is a very mellow dog. This isn't so much lines as getting a breeder who knows how to select a dog/pup suitable for the situation.
> 
> What I would say is first and foremost you need a very good breeder.


Am I better off looking at a breeder of working dogs vs show dogs? American bloodlines vs German? Is a female dog likely to be more reliable and calm than a male (assuming either would be neutered)? How do I find a decent breeder for a family pet?


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## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

First of all, as you stated in your post, you should search for a reputable breeder. Then, you need to tell what type of temperament you are looking for in a dog. Then your breeder is gonna try to do ''The Perfect Match''. Until this point, everything is fine but right after this, everything is in your hands. You get what you put in your pocket. You need to train and socialize your pup right from the first day he/she arrives to your home. Germanshepherds mature slowly, especially the males. So it is a lot of work. No child should ever be left alone with a dog. The news that you heard or read are getting caused because of this. You should always supervise your dog when he is with children. Nobody can gurantee you that no dog will bite or growl. Of course we never want a little child getting bit by a dog in any place. Even a child pesters puppy, that puppy will growl, cause I've seen this, and the pup was right. Germanshepherds are good with kids, this is true, but also it depends how you raise your pup. Good luck, I'm sure other very knowledgeable members will also enlighten you.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

getting a pup from a reputable breeder is key. biting and growling
are things you'll teach your dog not to do. nipping is something
they do. your pup will grow out of the nipping stage.

you nailed it with the socializing and training. you socialize
and train your dog and you're going to have a nice dog. i suggest
a puppy class then an OB class or a private trainer and just
go from there.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: cassadee7
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: middleofnowhere
> ...


You find a good breeder. A litter will have pups with a variety of drives. My pup has "average" or moderate drives. Some of her litter mates were higher drive dogs and went to working homes. Some may have been lower drive pet pups. 

I will send you a PM with the contact info for a breeder to talk to.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Where in WA are you? I can tell you a few to stay away from if you would like to PM me. I used to live in north central Oregon. GSD07 lives in the Tri-Cities and can tell a few to stay away from too. She has a lovely male from vom Banach now. 

I don't think the breeding line matters so much as a good breeder linking you up with the puppy that is right for your situation. American show lines can produce some pups not suitable for you and workling lines can produce some wondeful pups that are suited to you. Each litter, no matter the line, will have a spectrum of drives and personalities.

The other key is socializing and training. You get a great pup, do the right things and you will have a wonderful companion for the life of the dog.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I live in south-west Idaho and, like KathyW., can p.m. the names of who to stay away from. 

If you are up for a road trip, I highly recommend Heidi Theis of Theishof Kennels. I train with her and see her dogs in a wide variety of situations. You just can't go wrong with her dogs, they are that good.
Sheilah


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I'm in Tri-Cities. PMs sent









I know this is a really big commitment and it is so important to me to find the right dog for my family, one that will live a very long and happy and beloved life with us! If I ended up with a dog that was a "bad fit" I would be heartbroken. I plan to take several months, maybe a year to learn more about the breed, breeders, and training so I can be a good owner. I really appreciate all the help.


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## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

I think that as long as you find a good reputable breeder, they will provide you with a pup that fits your needs/lifestyle. Most reputable breeders don't let you pick your pup, they will pick the pup for you that they think would fit into your life the best.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ah another Tri-Citian! One of my favorite places. We plan on retiring there in about 10 years.I also plan on visiting maybe next fall, depending on when we go see our son in Spain.

I PM'd you some info and I see Sheilah also plugged Theishof. There is also Guardyan Kennels in Northern Idaho. Shyne does not breed much but she has some nice dogs when she does breed.

As I said before I don't think breeding lines matter much unless you wanted to do Schutzhund with your dog and it does not sound like that is of interest to you. If you were to do that you would want a lot of drive and would probably want working lines. But even a working line dog will make a nice, solid, stable family companon. There are many with working lines that do not do any sports they just are active pet homes.

You might want to PM GSD07 as well, she is in tri-Cities too. She is pretty busy with school and her husband has had soem health issues but she would be more than happy to share some of her breeder research with you. And if you go up in pictures and find the recent thread about Judge, you can PM Courtney (VomKromeHaus) and ask her about the breeder MarioHaus in Hermiston which is where Judge came from. There is also another very small breeder in Irrigon, OR. Coleen is a Deputy Sherriff for Morrow County. She has some working line dogs and breeds occassionally. Many of them are working police K9's and they may be too much for you but if she has a real mellow pup in a litter you may consider her. Courtney knows Coleen. 

And another contact for you.... Stacy (Marshmallows on this board) is also in Umatilla, she has lived in the area her entire life and knows a lot of GSD people. 

Good luck!!


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

Lori Nickeson in Bend OR has really good dogs, she doesn't have a website but her kennel is DeBrut's. Someday I might get a dog from her, very smart dogs, a lot of them are CH's and have very high obedience titles, a lot of them have OTCH's.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

If I want American Showlines I would go to Lori. I had put her email addy in a PM.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks. 

When looking at lines, what are the fundamental differences in temperament, angulation, look, health, drive, etc in Working lines vs Show lines? American vs German?


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

In general terms:

American showlines: less drive, more angulation, some can be nervy but I have had 2 and both were solid tempered dogs. Health depends on the parents and how well the breeder screens and culls dog with health issues. The other lines are no more or less healthy in my opinion. The only health issue I have had with my Americn line dogs has been hips. Many American line breeders are moving away from the over angulated dogs by either breeding less angualtion or mixing in some German lines.My Kayos is 75% Americn and 25% Germand and is not overangulated, she still has bad hips. The breeder near Walla Walla that I warned you off has very poor temepered American line dogs.Lori Nickeson has very good American line dogs. 

German showlines: more drive but not as much as working lines. Less angulation. Health issues are no different than any other line. My Havoc came from the breeder in Canby that I warned you off. She has German Showlines and I have plenty of minor health issues with Havoc. Nothing serious thank goodness it is just the little one thing after another. Temperaments are dependent on good temper in the genetic line. 

Working lines: can be pretty drivy. I think most working line breeders are more intune with breeding very mentally stable dogs because the dog has to be very solid to do protection work. They have to be thinking dogs. I used to not recommend working lines for families that just wanted a pet for a family. But there are many working line dogs that are exceptional pets and never do protection work. They may be more active but they need more exercise to keep them happy. I think a working line dog is fine in an active pert home. They tend to not be as "pretty" as the showlines. You see a lot of sables instead of the traditional saddle markings. 

I personally do not like the looks of the working line dogs. That is just me. I like the German showlines and many of the less extreme American line dogs. 

I hope working line folk jump in here and talk about how great their WL are with thier kids. I do not have a working line and my kid is 25 so I can't say. But I read all kinds of posts about how wonderful they are and I may end up with one yet. 

That was very brief.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

I think most people hit it on the head of the nail in that finding a good breeder is the most crucial step in finding a good puppy that matches your lifestyle and criteria.

I do have a working line pup (Miya's pedigree), but I don't have kids. However, Miya is a darling around our friends' kids and just loves giving kisses to them. The only thing I really need to work on is the jumping up thing, but I don't mind that so much and it keeps some of the neighbourhood kids away!









Miya is a bundle of energy, so I try my best to do some daily obedience (short sessions), fetch or tug along with 3 miles of walking no matter what the weather (today it is 22ºF, like 10F with 3 inches of snow). She will settle nicely with a bone or toy and at 7 months old she sleeps beside my bed at night without a crate. During the day, she is crated when I am at work and a stay-at-home mom friend of mine lets her out around lunch time. I work periodically with a private trainer right now to get a start on her obedience as I would like to try Schutzhund, but Miya is a companion, first and foremost.


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

I have owned American Show lines, German Showlines and now Working line dogs and have to say I love the working lines. Though they can be a ball of fire like my boy Max they can and do make a wonderful family dog. Max would go through a brick wall to defend me, loves to work to please me and as you can see in the pictures makes a very well rounded farm dog and awesome around the kids. Hope this helps.


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## Bcannie (Jul 8, 2009)

Klenien, your dog is georgous!


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## gsdlove212 (Feb 3, 2006)

I also love my working line dog. And I got one of the "really drivey SchH prospects" too







. She is great in the house with my brood! She has an awesome "on switch" and an awesome "off switch" and that is what makes her awesome in the house. 

That said, a good breeder will match up your lifestyle with a pup that will "fit" more or less. So if you decide to go with working lines, the breeder will match you with a pup that will thrive in whatever your lifestyle is. In a working line litter of pups, they will range from high drive to mellow and everything in between.


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

bcannie thanks. Can you believe in these pictures this was Max's first duck and first baby/kid?


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks for all the GREAT info! I love that pic of Max with the duckling, sooo cute. Is that what they call "low prey drive?" Or would he chase running animals?

We have this little poodle/pom mix who is 11 years old, and he will chase ANYTHING that moves, including me, my teens, little kids or animals EVEN IF he knows it is a futile chase (such as going after a rottweiler). He just can't seem to help himself, even though he is not the least bit "aggressive" and has never bitten anyone or anything. He just has to chase and bark.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

It's called an off switch LOL Max has a drive for three dogs combined, I bet









Max is DDR/Czech working line


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

Oksana You are 100% correct, Max is no where close to a low drive dog he just has a well controled off switch.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

Shoot me a PM if you are interested about breeders in Tri-Cities! 

Working lines IMHO are the best. Very stable, good dogs. BUT it depends on the breeder adn the dogs. My dog's breeder has a pup(2 years old now) that she never got any serious interest in, he's a "pet" dog. He would be happy just having a ball thrown for him in a backyard or a walk every day. He does have higher prey drive than average. 

You can find a "pet" from a working breeder if you look and work with the breeder for what will fit your lifestyle. 

Courtney


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Courtney glad you jumped in here. I told her about Sue Marion in Hermiston too. I also gave her a few to stay FAR AWAY from. You probably know who too!


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Kathy, can you pm me that list too?


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

So I guess if steady nerves and an off switch is important to me, I might want to look closely at DDR lines. Some info I've read say that the Czech dogs are higher drive/energy than straight DDR. So maybe a calm pup from a DDR breeding would be a good place to start?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: cassadee7So I guess if steady nerves and an off switch is important to me, I might want to look closely at DDR lines. Some info I've read say that the Czech dogs are higher drive/energy than straight DDR. So maybe a calm pup from a DDR breeding would be a good place to start?


i honestly think that there are enough good breeders of every line for you to get exactly what you want. including color. blacks, bi, and sables are going to make up the _majority_ of DDR lines. so just as everyone is saying not to limit yourself by color... don't limit yourself by lines either. both of my dogs are very different in size, lines, color, structure, personality and temperament - however both are absolutely perfect for my lifestyle and trustworthy with all the nieces, nephews, cousins, friends, and neighborhood children in my life


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Camera^^^ post.

Don't limit yourself to a specific "line", the key is finding a good breeder that is able to pick the dog that will fit into your lifestyle)

I have one of "max's daughter's" Masi, she is not for the faint hearted) I love her to death, but a couch potatoe she is definately not ))

Isn't Von Banach in your area to? Check out Akbar on the board, tho he isnt the color your looking for, I like her dogs..Missy is constantly teasing me with pics of Akbar and from the sounds of her, she is very happy with him and the breeder...

Good luck with your search..


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I saw Akbar, he is gorgeous! The more I look around, the more I think a sable might be fine. I have never seen one in person though and would like to before deciding.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

And Oksana has a black male for vom Banach. 

If you want the black/tan blanket back. you might consider DeBruts, many of her dogs are colored that way.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

The more I see of Lori's dogs, the more I want one, lol. They are wonderful dogs, American or not they are wonderful. Many are doing obedience and are excelling! They are smart dogs.









Banach is a good choice if you want a DDR dog.


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## ThorDog (Feb 12, 2010)

Would you mind PMing me the breeders to stay away from? We are in CA and looking for a family dog also but in the future, not any time soon, I am just doing research. A balanced and stable dog is very important to us and medium to low drive.

Thanks!


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## ThorDog (Feb 12, 2010)

Did you narrow down the list or contact a breeder?


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

I would like to know too! lol


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the pup might do all of these things but with
your training and socializing you should be fine.
never leave the kids alone with the puppy. never leave the kids alone
with the dog when it's grown.



cassadee7 said:


> What's my best option to find a pup that will grow up and not bite, nip, growl etc at children and will be safe with them? I am willing to do plenty of training and socializing but I think starting with a great pup is key. Suggestions?


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