# Recommendations/thoughts for a novice owner in an apartment?



## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

EDIT: Thanks for everyone's responses. Some quick things I'll address:
RE: my activity level - I won't get a GSD if my activity level is not up to par. I am working to improve and get more fit, but I won't get a dog if I can't meet it's required mental and physical exercise requirements. 
RE: adopting/fostering - Yes, I will consider it post-COVID. Ontario dogs have 100's of apps for each dog unless they're a senior dog. Yes, I will keep my mind open to adopting a senior dog.

I still would love an answer to if breeders get medium energy GSDs occasionally, but otherwise I am still happy to read everyone's responses and experiences with their GSDs! You all sound like lovely GSD parents. The most helpful responses detailed your daily routine with your GSDs and those were very eye opening and gave great perspective. I'd like to re-iterate I'm not going to dump a dog or get one without serious consideration. It's why I'm here asking now. I know you all worry about a dog's well-being, but so do I.

Original post below line:
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Hi everyone,

I've only been lurking recently, but have already learned so much! I love GSDs but the only breed I've ever really hung around are huskies. I would love opinions on the type of GSD that would suit me in the future, or even if you have alternative suggestions on another dog breed. I am not currently ready for a GSD pup, but am hoping to be looking for a dog in the near future and would love input from all you GSD lovers.

I have a ton of questions so I'm hoping to provide you a ton of information. Sorry for the long read!

Some information about me:

I have never owned a dog. I walk huskies quite often (they're such a handful to walk), but I've never had to do formal training of any dog.
I live in the GTA (urban southern Ontario) and will be renting either an apartment, a condo, or a basement apartment, so likely no fenced yard but there are plenty of nearby parks and trails where I am willing to exercise my dog daily. I am also willing to continually train my dog and keep them mentally stimulated.
I currently work full-time with a work from home (WFH) arrangement due to COVID, but even pre-covid I WFH 2 times a week. I don't expect to be returning to the work-place until 2022 earliest. Post-COVID, I wouldn't be surprised if the WFH arrangment was increased from 2 to 3 times a week. 
I don't have children.
Things I am looking for in a dog:

I want a dog that is a loyal companion and is eager to be trained. As mentioned, I've only ever really been around huskies (dogs owned by friends and family). I love the *look *of huskies and their friendliness, but they are not people-pleasing and have a mind of their own.
I would prefer a medium energy dog (if I had to choose between low and high, I would probably pick low, but I don't really want a couch potato either). I know this isn't characteristic of a GSD - they are generally high energy dogs, but I have seen some low/medium energy GSDs in this forum and elsewhere. How common do breeders get medium energy pups? I would be willing put down a deposit with the right breeder who knew I wanted a medium energy pup, and I'd wait for the right pup and the right litter, even if I had to wait a whole year. Is this possible? Thoughts?
Why do I want a medium energy dog instead of high energy? Being very honest, I'm kind of lazy - but I don't want to be. I'm working on becoming more active and am 100% committed to an absolute *minimum *of 1.5 hrs daily to exercising my dog, in addition to some time set aside for training/obedience. I'd expect to walk my dog in the morning and evening. I've only recently discovered hiking, and I quite enjoy it. I don't think I'd be the type to go every weekend, but possibly a couple times a month. I'm not planning to do sports or compete with my dog. So for that reason, I don't think high energy would suit me? But I really do want to train my dog in obedience and willing to bring to classes. I'm willing to do scent-work and other activities to mentally stimulate my dog if they're easily done from home. I'm not super keen on agility, but only because living in urban Toronto driving to anything is a huge time and money commitment (traffic, parking, class prices). If it was easily accessible then yes I would consider agility for fun and stimulation.
I'm also planning to leave my dog home alone for up to 8 hrs maybe 2-3 times a week (post-COVID). I'd like to clarify that I am not planning to leave a puppy home alone for 8 hours. When they are house-training and still a puppy, I plan to be WFH, if I get a puppy post-COVID, will take vacation time/ask for special accommodations if needed. Since I anticipate leaving them alone for that long, this is another reason I think a medium energy dog would do better than a high energy dog being left alone so long, but please let me know if this isn't the right thought process. If I know my dog is going to be alone for that long, I'm planning to hire a dog-walker to take my dog out in the middle of those 8 hrs.
I really want a pet GSD. A dog I can go have fun with outside and train to be a smart obedient loyal dog, but when we're home I'd like a cuddly dog who enjoys my company. Having an off-switch is very important. I really just want a health dog with good temperament and medium energy.
For this reason, I'm still confused about what "line" of dog I should go for. From my research in this forum, american show line dogs would probably have lower energy, but I'm worried about their health. I'm sure there are good show line breeders would also breed healthy dogs - would love some recommendations in Ontario/Quebec. How much more expensive are we talking for an american show line pup?
I prefer the look of working line dogs, but obviously my dog won't be working. How often do working line dogs breed a medium energy pup? I know they're breeding for high energy, but again, is it possible for me to request a medium energy pup from a working line breeder and wait for the right litter? Or am I better off with a showline breeder?

I would prefer it if my dog was people-friendly, but it's not a deal-breaker if my dog is just aloof with strangers.
I would like my dog to be dog-friendly. I don't really care about stranger dogs, but I do have friends with dogs that I'd hope my dog could get along with.
Adopting/rescue? I am very open to it. I was so sure I was going to adopt a dog, but the more I look into rescues, the more it just seems like I will always be on the bottom of the list. I likely won't have a fenced in yard. I don't have prior dog experience, so dogs with some previous baggage/reactivity would be better suited for experienced owners. I might not be home 24/7 in the future. I'd actually prefer a young adult or adult vs. a puppy, but at least with a puppy I'd be confident of its genetics for health and temperament. I know some breeders will occasionally have young adults for sale. How feasible would it be for me to get a young adult from a breeder?
Some irrelevant wants:

I don't really have a preference on sex. I've heard females are more gentle than males, but honestly if the breeder told me a specific male pup was better suited to me to a female pup, then I'd trust their judgement.
Color: I really like pure black GSDs. Not a huge fan of the traditional tan/black aesthetic. I would prefer sable or bi-color if I couldn't get a pure black one. But again, if a breeder told me a certain pup was the perfect fit for me, but was traditional tan/black, I'd trust their judgement. In the end, it's just a color.
If you made it to the bottom, thanks for reading haha! I am open to any criticisms and would like honest opinions about my abilities to own a GSD. I would love to hear from a diversity of GSD owners, and would love the input of those in urban settings and have lived with a GSD in an apartment/condo. I am inexperienced, but I am committed to learning about how to properly train a puppy/dog, get them properly socialized, and am committed to them for the next 10-15 years. I understand it's a lifetime commitment and it's not a decision I will take lightly. 

-Oink


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I suggest you foster dogs for a while, you get to experience living with a dog in your circumstances, without a permanent commitment.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Dunkirk said:


> I suggest you foster dogs for a while, you get to experience living with a dog in your circumstances, without a permanent commitment.


Thanks for your input! I've considered fostering before. Can I ask if the reason is because you think I should foster until I'm NOT living in an apartment? Or is it because I should gain some more experience? Or both?


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I think fostering is a good idea to know what exactly you’ll be getting yourself into. Also if you like huskies why not to try something more suitable for an apartment life like Shiba or Basenji for a similar look and medium level of exercise.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

You'll get to experience the reality of living with a dog in an apartment situation. Kind of like "Love is blind, marriage is an eyeopener" thing.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

@violetmd thoughts?


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

We live in the west end of Toronto in an apartment with our three boys. 

It's entirely doable, but - if you are not naturally an active person, I would get a less active dog. We have parks nearby, and run/hike/backpack with the boys (our eldest is retired from running at almost 13). 

When I got my first dog (Luc, GSD), I lived in the top floor of a house, and had no lawn. After I got my second GSD, I thought, maybe a yard would be nice, and moved to North York. The dogs never saw anyone, when I walked or ran with them. By the time I moved back to the city, we had Neb, and he and Luc (Teagan had passed) were so much more engaged with life because there were people on the streets! Things to interact with, even if that just meant walking by calmly. 

Luc was medium/low energy, and I still took him on 40k runs and 60k non-stop hikes. So I will reiterate - if you don't like doing active physical things, I wouldn't count on your dog to change that in you.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Lexie’s mom said:


> I think fostering is a good idea to know what exactly you’ll be getting yourself into. Also if you like huskies why not to try something more suitable for an apartment life like Shiba or Basenji for a similar look and medium level of exercise.


I actually quite like large dogs haha. Basenji isn't quite the look I like. Shiba is closer, but their personality I've heard isn't very easy to deal with in terms of aggression and a big flight risk like huskies.



Dunkirk said:


> You'll get to experience the reality of living with a dog in an apartment situation. Kind of like "Love is blind, marriage is an eyeopener" thing.


That's great, thanks! With COVID, it's very very difficult to apply to be a foster right now in Ontario, but I will definitely take it into consideration post-COVID.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

jarn said:


> We live in the west end of Toronto in an apartment with our three boys.
> 
> It's entirely doable, but - if you are not naturally an active person, I would get a less active dog. We have parks nearby, and run/hike/backpack with the boys (our eldest is retired from running at almost 13).
> 
> ...


Really appreciate this opinion, thanks! I do enjoy walking, but I require a plan and a reason to do it - e.g. plan it with friends, a partner. So I know I could walk 2x a day if I got a dog because I would enjoy it and someone is waiting on me. Beyond that, I know I wouldn't suddenly be hiking 3x a week. I'm having a hard time finding low energy dogs with a shepherd/retriever look. I will keep looking, thank you!


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I don’t think there’s such a thing as a low energy shepherd or retriever! Forget about the looks, lol! Get a Shar Pei- a perfect cat like clean, lazy, independent dog, perfect for the apartment.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Lexie’s mom said:


> I don’t think there’s such a thing as a low energy shepherd or retriever! Forget about the looks, lol! Get a Shar Pei- a perfect cat like clean, lazy, independent dog, perfect for the apartment.


Unfortunately that's what I thought too! All shepherds are working dogs with high energy haha. I was looking into King Shepherds for a bit, giant GSDs basically, but they're not a recognized breed so they're not very easy to find reputable breeders. 

Lexie's mom, please, I clearly have a type and Shar-Pei's are not it HAHA. I also don't want a lazy dog either! I want to have some fun, go to the beach, go to the park, teach some tricks.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Based on everything you said, a German Shepherd is not for you.


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

I am not entirely convinced a German Shepherd is your best option though. You could easily do all you mentioned above with a Lab though they aren't super high in the drive department they are very intelligent and would be more forgiving with a bit less exercise. Labs are almost always people friendly, dog friendly, can be black, can be a lap dog when inside but a silly crazy dog outside. You could definitely do most if not all you want to do with a lab.

As for breeders in Ontario I suggest Burgimwald, a WGSL breeder. Super guy and super dogs! A WGSL will be similar to an ASL but not as much work as a working line (usually). Erwin's dogs seem to all have good long lives of 12-13+ and his current 13 year old still runs 5+ KM a day.

King Shepherds are not a real breed, just oversized German Shepherds that kept on getting bred and then called the King because they were bred for size.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

oink said:


> american show line dogs would probably have lower energy,


This has not been my experience. At all. ASL's in my experience have more energy, just less drive.



oink said:


> I'm working on becoming more active and am 100% committed to an absolute *minimum *of 1.5 hrs daily to exercising my dog, in addition to some time set aside for training/obedience


Just so you are aware my 10 year old dog needs more exercise then that. I currently live in an apartment and we walk 4-5 times a day for a total of about 3 hours. Bit less now because it's cold and we are both old.



oink said:


> I've heard females are more gentle than males,


Again this has not been my experience. They call them bitches for a reason, lol.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

SuperAndre said:


> I am not entirely convinced a German Shepherd is your best option though. You could easily do all you mentioned above with a Lab though they aren't super high in the drive department they are very intelligent and would be more forgiving with a bit less exercise. Labs are almost always people friendly, dog friendly, can be black, can be a lap dog when inside but a silly crazy dog outside. You could definitely do most if not all you want to do with a lab.
> 
> As for breeders in Ontario I suggest Burgimwald, a WGSL breeder. Super guy and super dogs! A WGSL will be similar to an ASL but not as much work as a working line (usually). Erwin's dogs seem to all have good long lives of 12-13+ and his current 13 year old still runs 5+ KM a day.
> 
> King Shepherds are not a real breed, just oversized German Shepherds that kept on getting bred and then called the King because they were bred for size.


I do love labs too! Thanks for the suggestion. Thanks for the breeder suggestion too. I will keep all these inputs in mind


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> This has not been my experience. At all. ASL's in my experience have more energy, just less drive.
> 
> Just so you are aware my 10 year old dog needs more exercise then that. I currently live in an apartment and we walk 4-5 times a day for a total of about 3 hours. Bit less now because it's cold and we are both old.
> 
> Again this has not been my experience. They call them bitches for a reason, lol.


Sigh, there's so much information everywhere. Sorry for getting some of it wrong! Giving information about your 10 year old dog is really eye opening. No way will I be outside walking for 3 hrs. I can see myself walking twice a day and then training, but that's it.

RE: females, loooooool. Every source always ends up telling me different things. Overall, thanks for the input! I see a lot of your posts!


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## SuperAndre (Jun 28, 2020)

oink said:


> I do love labs too! Thanks for the suggestion. Thanks for the breeder suggestion too. I will keep all these inputs in mind


If you need Lab breeder suggestions feel free to contact me!


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> Based on everything you said, a German Shepherd is not for you.


I wish you expanded, but thank you for the response!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

You can keep just about any German shepherd in an apartment if you’re willing to put in the work. I think you could easily find a shepherd that fits your wants. Even the low energy shepherds I know can easily keep up with their owners during most activities. I think 1.5 hours of exercise would work for a lot of dogs. It’s important to know that I don’t consider walking your dog or exercise. It’s not exercise if the dog isn’t tired after. Generally you want your dog to be running to consider it exercise. My dogs get 3 or 4 walks at about 20-30 minutes in addition to about 2 hours of exercise a day. Prior to COVID, my dog was home without me for 8-10 hours 5 days a week. People friendly and dog friendly is going to depend more on the individual dog and the breeding than “line” of dog. How well your dog gets along with your friends dogs will depend on the personalities involved. I have friends with dogs that Bear loves. I have friends who dogs that Bear despises. Based on what you want, it sounds like an ASL would fit you best. The only lines I really pay a lot of attention to are working lines though. While working lines can fit what you want, you could also end up with a dog that is not what you want if you get a bad match. The dog you get should also be the dog you want, it isn’t always the best fit. I live in an apartment in downtown San Diego with two shepherds for what it’s worth.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> You can keep just about any German shepherd in an apartment if you’re willing to put in the work. I think you could easily find a shepherd that fits your wants. Even the low energy shepherds I know can easily keep up with their owners during most activities. I think 1.5 hours of exercise would work for a lot of dogs. It’s important to know that I don’t consider walking your dog or exercise. It’s not exercise if the dog isn’t tired after. Generally you want your dog to be running to consider it exercise. My dogs get 3 or 4 walks at about 20-30 minutes in addition to about 2 hours of exercise a day. Prior to COVID, my dog was home without me for 8-10 hours 5 days a week. People friendly and dog friendly is going to depend more on the individual dog and the breeding than “line” of dog. How well your dog gets along with your friends dogs will depend on the personalities involved. I have friends with dogs that Bear loves. I have friends who dogs that Bear despises. Based on what you want, it sounds like an ASL would fit you best. The only lines I really pay a lot of attention to are working lines though. While working lines can fit what you want, you could also end up with a dog that is not what you want if you get a bad match. The dog you get should also be the dog you want, it isn’t always the best fit. I live in an apartment in downtown San Diego with two shepherds for what it’s worth.


Thanks for all that information! What kind of exercise do you do with your GSDs?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

No time to expand on it now but based on everything you wrote, please don't get a GSD. You'll just be back asking what's wrong with your dog....


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

oink said:


> Thanks for all that information! What kind of exercise do you do with your GSDs?


Biking, fetch, hikes, different tug based games, and swimming are some usually suspects.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

WNGD said:


> No time to expand on it now but based on everything you wrote, please don't get a GSD. You'll just be back asking what's wrong with your dog....


Aha, it's why I'm asking here now instead of mid-buy  
I don't think I'd ever blame my dog. If anything I'd come back with "What did I do wrong", but I get the point.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

oink said:


> Sigh, there's so much information everywhere. Sorry for getting some of it wrong! Giving information about your 10 year old dog is really eye opening. No way will I be outside walking for 3 hrs. I can see myself walking twice a day and then training, but that's it.
> 
> RE: females, loooooool. Every source always ends up telling me different things. Overall, thanks for the input! I see a lot of your posts!


I thought this might help
A day in the life | German Shepherds Forum 

As far as females go, in general, I feel like males are protective of territory and females of family. That said females tend to be more serious, less tolerant of crap and more independent. Males tend to be more velcro ish with their owners, slower to mature and goofier overall.
Any well bred shepherd should be capable of being a good family pet if the family is committed to the dog.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> Biking, fetch, hikes, different tug based games, and swimming are some usually suspects.


Sounds much more entertaining than walks, thank you! Fetch/Hikes(ocassional)/Games are doable for me. I'd loooove to train my dog to run alongside my bike! Thanks again!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

oink said:


> Sounds much more entertaining than walks, thank you! Fetch/Hikes(ocassional)/Games are doable for me. I'd loooove to train my dog to run alongside my bike! Thanks again!


My dogs live running next to the bike. It’s not really something the young one does at this age other than to learn how to behave. It can also be done on an electric scooter.😉


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> I thought this might help
> A day in the life | German Shepherds Forum
> 
> As far as females go, in general, I feel like males are protective of territory and females of family. That said females tend to be more serious, less tolerant of crap and more independent. Males tend to be more velcro ish with their owners, slower to mature and goofier overall.
> Any well bred shepherd should be capable of being a good family pet if the family is committed to the dog.


Loved reading this! I can't believe you get in 3 walks before you go to work (if I'm reading that right?)


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## violetmd (Aug 7, 2020)

I live in downtown Toronto. I can give you Millie on my work days if you want to test out apartment living with a 7 month workingline GSD. Hahah jk jk (...or maybe not)


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

violetmd said:


> I live in downtown Toronto. I can give you Millie on my work days if you want to test out apartment living with a 7 month workingline GSD. Hahah jk jk (...or maybe not)


I live up in North York, so I'm unfortunately not super close, but yknow... I would consider this offer in the future if you're not kidding


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

oink said:


> Loved reading this! I can't believe you get in 3 walks before you go to work (if I'm reading that right?)


When I wrote that I was working an evening shift, so I was not leaving for work until around 4. But I was also getting by on about 5 hours of sleep.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> When I wrote that I was working an evening shift, so I was not leaving for work until around 4. But I was also getting by on about 5 hours of sleep.


5 hrs is craaaaaazy. I look back on my undergrad days with 3-5 hr sleeps during exam season and I definitely couldn't do it again.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

oink said:


> 5 hrs is craaaaaazy. I look back on my undergrad days with 3-5 hr sleeps during exam season and I definitely couldn't do it again.


My dogs are my world. It's all about them, and always has been. 
I will be honest, Shadow has some health issues that make walking safer for her then running around so we walk. A lot. In healthier days 15kms was normal, sometimes more. Now? On a good day we get in 6. Less now that it's cold. 
With a healthy dog, I could spend less time because I could run them. I wouldn't spend less time anyway, but that's me. 
If you can commit to a couple of hours plus training, it could work. But a dog needs to go to the bathroom and in an apartment that means a walk. Think of it this way, how often do you need to pee in a day?


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Sabis mom said:


> My dogs are my world. It's all about them, and always has been.
> I will be honest, Shadow has some health issues that make walking safer for her then running around so we walk. A lot. In healthier days 15kms was normal, sometimes more. Now? On a good day we get in 6. Less now that it's cold.
> With a healthy dog, I could spend less time because I could run them. I wouldn't spend less time anyway, but that's me.
> If you can commit to a couple of hours plus training, it could work. But a dog needs to go to the bathroom and in an apartment that means a walk. Think of it this way, how often do you need to pee in a day?


Thanks for sharing about Shadow! You sound like a lovely GSD parent.
I totally understand that potty training in an apartment is going to be very difficult. I've seen an old post around here from Elisabeth who lived on the 18th floor - I plan to go her route and just be ready to grab my puppy, and carry them down the elevator to their potty spot at a moment's notice. I see a lot of rescues current training method for puppies is 2 hrs in crate, 1 hr out to avoid separation anxiety. So my plan was to bring them to potty after coming out of the crate, before going into the crate, and if they whined in the crate. And then obviously again after eating, drinking, and playing. Potty-training is the main reason I would prefer a young adult, but I understand what I'm signing up for if I got a puppy


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I'm out minimum 5-6X per day, couple hours total and it's not just walking. Serious adventuring, hiking, over and under stuff, training. It's not that they can't live in an apartment, it's that it's not best for them, they don't thrive there so why bring one into that situation if you don't have to? 

You really should be an outdoor, training, exercise maniac to consider it.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I'm out minimum 5-6X per day, couple hours total and it's not just walking. Serious adventuring, hiking, over and under stuff, training. It's not that they can't live in an apartment, it's that it's not best for them, they don't thrive there so why bring one into that situation if you don't have to?
> 
> You really should be an outdoor, training, exercise maniac to consider it.


I think if I WAS an outdoor maniac, then I don't think an apartment would be that much of a deal-breaker? As long as they were getting the exercise and stimulation they needed, I don't think the size of the space they come home to would be that important. The only scenario I see where a GSD wouldn't thrive in an apartment is if they get less exercise than someone who has a yard. But if I exercise my GSD - do all the stuff you mentioned like hiking, training, swimming, vs. someone who just lets their GSD out into the yard, then I don't think my GSD would thrive any less. That's my thinking, but I am happy to be corrected!

You're 100% right about matching GSD energy level though. I'm not going to argue with that. I was hoping to see if low/medium energy GSDs weren't uncommon in breeder litters. Maybe if they got 1-2 per year I could potentially get a chiller GSD that wouldn't need me to be an outdoor maniac. Just average active


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I agree with @WNGD. I spend a lot of time outdoors anyway and I hike, camp, canoe, snow-shoe and cross country ski. And used to run. I previously lived in houses but even when I was in an apartment the dogs and I spent tons of time out doing stuff. 
Shadow used to do all those things with me, except canoeing. She is what I consider an average dog. 
My guess would be that an adult rescue would work best or look for breeders that are retiring breeding stock.


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## violetmd (Aug 7, 2020)

Just read your post more thoroughly, I definitely think you can have a GSD in an apartment! However I would highly highly recommend a balcony you can put a porch potty or grass on or you will be very miserable. A porch potty is a life saver.
I don’t think you need too much exercise/walking but a mix of exercise and mental stimulation. 

Millie gets 1-2 walks a day, one is a long one that’s 45 min- 1 hour and the other one is a short 15-30 min potty break. We play fetch in the hallway and in our condo for a few rounds.

Things I wish I could change about the GSD personality: I wish my pup was more people friendly, dog friendly and cuddly. 

She is affectionate towards people but they are not interesting to her so most of the time she walks right by her admirers. Unlike Goldens or labs she will not interact with a stranger unless you kind of force her to. She’s also insecure of large dogs and you have probably heard that GSDs are not “dog park dogs”. She has 2 dog friends who she LOVES and everyone else she’s prefers not to interact with. Basically on walks she doesn’t meet people or dogs. wish I had more of a social butterfly dog but then I see lots of reactive hyper Goldendoodles just dragging their owners around and you realize there are pros and cons to everything lol.
Lastly she’s isn’t that into being hugged and isn’t a lap dog. She does like to chew her bones in our presence so we have learned to appreciate her doggy ambience. 

Today I tried to do a quick grocery run to see how she would handle being left outside and she did so well. None of the pedestrians even tried to pet her... maybe because of the way she looks LOL.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

violetmd said:


> View attachment 568914


gah. i love toronto.... this photo just brought back memories. i was only there for 2 weeks, 2 separate times, but acclimated quickly.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

violetmd said:


> Just read your post more thoroughly, I definitely think you can have a GSD in an apartment! However I would highly highly recommend a balcony you can put a porch potty or grass on or you will be very miserable. A porch potty is a life saver.
> I don’t think you need too much exercise/walking but a mix of exercise and mental stimulation.
> 
> Millie gets 1-2 walks a day, one is a long one that’s 45 min- 1 hour and the other one is a short 15-30 min potty break. We play fetch in the hallway and in our condo for a few rounds.
> ...


Millie is so gorgeous 😭 ah downtown Toronto, haven't seen it since last year when lockdown started


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

“I'm having a hard time finding low energy dogs with a shepherd/retriever look.”

This here is what tells me that perhaps a GSD is not a good fit for you. They are a working dog regardless of show line or working line. They typically need much more exercise than you are willing to provide. There are lower drive, calm gsd’s (although not normal for the breed) out there but you won’t know if your pup is that until it’s to late so what then?
Stop thinking about what you like the look of for now, do some research on what breeds normally have what you’re looking for instead of trying to find the needle in the haystack. Once you’ve identified the different breeds that have matching characteristics to yours, start looking at which have looks that appeal to you.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Saphire said:


> “I'm having a hard time finding low energy dogs with a shepherd/retriever look.”
> 
> This here is what tells me that perhaps a GSD is not a good fit for you. They are a working dog regardless of show line or working line. They typically need much more exercise than you are willing to provide. There are lower drive, calm gsd’s (although not normal for the breed) out there but you won’t know if your pup is that until it’s to late so what then?
> Stop thinking about what you like the look of for now, do some research on what breeds normally have what you’re looking for instead of trying to find the needle in the haystack. Once you’ve identified the different breeds that have matching characteristics to yours, start looking at which have looks that appeal to you.


Honestly the breeds that are low/medium energy don't really appeal to me, I've looked. But obviously if a GSD is a bad fit I will revisit typical lower energy dogs in the future. I don't actually want a low energy dog or a couch potato dog. So I figured if I could get a medium energy GSD, then why not ask around yknow? I would've been upfront with the breeders about wanting a medium energy puppy, so I'm sure if it wasn't possible, then they'd just tell me it's impossible to tell and I'd have my answer. I wouldn't take a dog and then go "oops" if they turned out high energy.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

oink said:


> Honestly the breeds that are low/medium energy don't really appeal to me, I've looked. But obviously if a GSD is a bad fit I will revisit typical lower energy dogs in the future. I don't actually want a low energy dog or a couch potato dog. So I figured if I could get a medium energy GSD, then why not ask around yknow? I would've been upfront with the breeders about wanting a medium energy puppy, so I'm sure if it wasn't possible, then they'd just tell me it's impossible to tell and I'd have my answer. I wouldn't take a dog and then go "oops" if they turned out high energy.


What you need is perspective. What people consider low, medium, and high energy dogs are different. I consider my younger dog medium energy. I consider my older one low energy. I consider a dog like David’s as high energy. Getting a higher energy dog than you are ready for is a pain, regardless of where you live. That’s how people end up with holes chewed in their walls. Proper amounts of exercise are key no matter what. The thing recommended most often here, and what I would recommend to you, is to go see and meet these dogs. See how they live. See what it takes to live with them.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> What you need is perspective. What people consider low, medium, and high energy dogs are different. I consider my younger dog medium energy. I consider my older one low energy. I consider a dog like David’s as high energy. Getting a higher energy dog than you are ready for is a pain, regardless of where you live. That’s how people end up with holes chewed in their walls. Proper amounts of exercise are key no matter what. The thing recommended most often here, and what I would recommend to you, is to go see and meet these dogs. See how they live. See what it takes to live with them.


I will definitely keep this in mind! When the world returns to normal I will try and go out and meet more GSDs and their breeders.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I would take this test and see what matches you and your lifestyle.








Dog Breed Selector - What Breed Of Dog Should I Get?


What kind of dog breed should you get? Use our Dog Breed Selector to determine which breed is the best fit for you and your lifestyle.




www.akc.org


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Sunflowers said:


> I would take this test and see what matches you and your lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was interested so I took the test. It came back with Doberman Pincher. I’ll take that 😂

To the OP, I think one thing not mentioned yet is the dog’s off switch. I have what I would consider a medium energy, high drive dog. It basically translates to him being satisfied with a lot of training but not necessarily needing daily ‘run until his tongue’s hanging out’ exercise. But really, it’s his off switch that is wonderful. Some people say it’s genetic, some that it’s taught. But an off switch is definitely something to consider if you live in an apartment.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sunflowers said:


> I would take this test and see what matches you and your lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the remarkably low number of general questions, it came back pretty accurate for me: 
*Beauceron*


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## Biscuit130 (Nov 23, 2020)

Doesnt hurt to ask indeed  you're doing the right thing by informing yourself before making the decision!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Haven't read all the responses but here are my 2 cents. If you want a low energy dog, you sign up for a couch potato but they still do like going for walks. Whippets or Greyhounds will probably suit you. They are kind, quiet, love their soft furniture but do enjoy activity if you do. We had three whippets for many years.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sunflowers said:


> I would take this test and see what matches you and your lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm.... Parson terrier. That’s a no go.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bearshandler said:


> Hmmm.... Parson terrier. That’s a no go.


I got Beauceron. I am familiar with the breed, wonder if the survey is?

JRT's/ Parsons are one of the few breeds you could not pay me to take! Can't stand them.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Sunflowers said:


> I would take this test and see what matches you and your lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did before! I actually got King Shepherd lol


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

CeraDean said:


> I was interested so I took the test. It came back with Doberman Pincher. I’ll take that 😂
> 
> To the OP, I think one thing not mentioned yet is the dog’s off switch. I have what I would consider a medium energy, high drive dog. It basically translates to him being satisfied with a lot of training but not necessarily needing daily ‘run until his tongue’s hanging out’ exercise. But really, it’s his off switch that is wonderful. Some people say it’s genetic, some that it’s taught. But an off switch is definitely something to consider if you live in an apartment.


Yes I did mention an off switch in my post, but just briefly! Thank you for bringing it up though


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> I got Beauceron. I am familiar with the breed, wonder if the survey is?


See? We'd get along so well with our Beaucerons.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> See? We'd get along so well with our Beaucerons.


Well you live "right down the way" and you never visit! I think you are mean.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> Haven't read all the responses but here are my 2 cents. If you want a low energy dog, you sign up for a couch potato but they still do like going for walks. Whippets or Greyhounds will probably suit you. They are kind, quiet, love their soft furniture but do enjoy activity if you do. We had three whippets for many years.


I'm a little worried about whippets in cold Canadian winters... But I'll keep them in mind, thank you!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> Well you live "right down the way" and you never visit! I think you are mean.


My Beaucerons don't have the coat for the cold and snow up your way.....I had 2 Rotties back in the day who weren't big fans of the cold either


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> My Beaucerons don't have the coat for the cold and snow up your way.....I had 2 Rotties back in the day who weren't big fans of the cold either


Listen, I'm not a big fan of the cold up my way. My Beauceron says warm and beachy, we headin for Barbados! Shadow agrees.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I’ve got Berger Picard... never even heard about this breed! Reminds me of my Giant Schnauzers.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

Have you thought about getting an older GSD through a GSD rescue organization?

My last dog before my current one was a 10 year old collie I got through a rescue organization. She was calm and gentle, already house trained and with good manners. She did have some issues, which the rescue told me about, but which I could live with. She needed daily walks - I would take her for a half hour or so each morning and 15 minutes in the evening, with a longer morning walk (about an hour) a couple of times a week. That was quite manageable for me. Whereas I know with younger collies - when I had one, it was at least an hour and a half every day.

An older GSD will require less exercise and you'll know what you are getting - you can talk to the rescue in detail and get the full information. The dog will appreciate you providing a good home and you'll know you've rescued a dog that needed you while you also get experience working with an older, more mellow version of the breed you want. It's sorta like training wheels... older dogs are a lot less work than puppies or young dogs!

I currently have a14 month GSD and, OMG!!! I love him but he is a handful!

Just in terms of exercise... if I didn't love to hike... and even so, there are days when I don't feel like hiking for an hour and a half in the cold but I still gotta get up and do it. Then he needs another half hour in the afternoon and a couple of short play and/or training sessions as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love him and he is so much fun, but an exuberant young dog is not for everybody! and that's OK, you can give an older dog a loving home and get a much better fit in terms of what you can provide and what the dog needs.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Shefali said:


> Have you thought about getting an older GSD through a GSD rescue organization?
> 
> My last dog before my current one was a 10 year old collie I got through a rescue organization. She was calm and gentle, already house trained and with good manners. She did have some issues, which the rescue told me about, but which I could live with. She needed daily walks - I would take her for a half hour or so each morning and 15 minutes in the evening, with a longer morning walk (about an hour) a couple of times a week. That was quite manageable for me. Whereas I know with younger collies - when I had one, it was at least an hour and a half every day.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this response! I've considered adopting an older dog before from a rescue, but I think that for my first dog, I want to bond and have the next decade to spend with them. It's not off the table, but I guess this is an admittedly shallow want. Even if I'm adopting a senior dog, they will still be my dog that I will love and cherish, and I think it'd really hurt to spend only 5 years or less with them, and possibly with a lot of medical problems at the end of life.


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

My first GSD I was living in an apt spent a lot of time exercising him Is it easy to find an apartment in Toronto that would allow dogs? I would also be concerned about barking


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

The rescue suggestion was a great suggestion


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Landlords in Toronto must allow dogs - but many do not follow this rule. However, OP was also looking at condos, and they can ban pets.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

HollandN said:


> My first GSD I was living in an apt spent a lot of time exercising him Is it easy to find an apartment in Toronto that would allow dogs? I would also be concerned about barking


In Ontario, you cannot legally evict someone for having a pet. But that doesn't stop private landlords from screening against those with pets before you officially rent. So having a GSD and renting from a private condo or basement apartment will likely be almost impossible. But there are a lot of apartment complexes that are pet friendly! 

I'd try my best with training and socialization to minimize the barking, but in a pet-friendly apartment if the barking is few and in between we wouldn't get evicted for that.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

jarn said:


> Landlords in Toronto must allow dogs - but many do not follow this rule. However, OP was also looking at condos, and they can ban pets.


Yes, you're right certain condo complexes can ban pets. The rule isn't that landlords MUST allow pets, it's that they cannot EVICT for pets. So if you're honest about your pet, they're allowed to not rent to you. But if you rent without a pet, and suddenly bring a pet home, they can't legally evict you for the pet. However they will likely still illegally evict you and I'd have to take them to the Landlord and Tenant Board. Maybe a $10K fine which honestly is pennies for a landlord in Toronto.


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## violetmd (Aug 7, 2020)

I wouldn't get a rescue GSD because it might come with issues that a new dog owner isn't equipped to handle. I think you have the enthusiasm and commitment to make a GSD work. It's not about the apartment size. It's all about the dedication of the owner. 

There are tons of high energy breeds where I live: huskies, goldendoodles, goldens, border collies, other GSDs. They are all living in condos/apartments and their owners make it work.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

violetmd said:


> I wouldn't get a rescue GSD because it might come with issues that a new dog owner isn't equipped to handle. I think you have the enthusiasm and commitment to make a GSD work. It's not about the apartment size. It's all about the dedication of the owner.
> 
> There are tons of high energy breeds where I live: huskies, goldendoodles, goldens, border collies, other GSDs. They are all living in condos/apartments and their owners make it work.


Thanks!  I will make sure I carefully evaluate their energy needs. I'm around a lot of Huskies and Husky/Shepherd mixes and I already think I can easily commit to the amount of exercise their owners currently give. That said, I will be very cautious before seriously considering a GSD.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey Oink, you have had a lot of advice and all we got was "yes, but...." Good luck in searching for the perfect dog.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

oink said:


> Yes, you're right certain condo complexes can ban pets. The rule isn't that landlords MUST allow pets, it's that they cannot EVICT for pets. So if you're honest about your pet, they're allowed to not rent to you. But if you rent without a pet, and suddenly bring a pet home, they can't legally evict you for the pet. However they will likely still illegally evict you and I'd have to take them to the Landlord and Tenant Board. Maybe a $10K fine which honestly is pennies for a landlord in Toronto.


True, there is that distinction - I was trying to remember. Most big landlords (we rent with a large company) will have no issues.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

violetmd said:


> I wouldn't get a rescue GSD because it might come with issues that a new dog owner isn't equipped to handle. I think you have the enthusiasm and commitment to make a GSD work. It's not about the apartment size. It's all about the dedication of the owner.
> 
> There are tons of high energy breeds where I live: huskies, goldendoodles, goldens, border collies, other GSDs. They are all living in condos/apartments and their owners make it work.


A rescue is what it is. You are not guessing as with a pup.
Define "make it work". Because honestly, your description of enough exercise would drive my dog insane. Lol.
The lady who lives above me has a large, young dog. She makes it work by putting headphones on. Myself and every other neighbor in earshot pay the price.
Dogs are adaptable, they will eventually adjust to the lifestyle. That doesn't mean it's a good thing. I don't think that everyone needs to spend 8 hours a day exercising their dog, but there should be balance. Like us they have needs.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> Hey Oink, you have had a lot of advice and all we got was "yes, but...." Good luck in searching for the perfect dog.


Aha and I appreciate all the advice! Thank you for your well wishes. 

But I sense you're not a fan of my responses. idk exactly what kind of response you want from me? I give a "but" if I think there's a but to be said, but otherwise, I've been very honest and accepting of the advice?
Foster? Yes, will consider. BUT it's difficult in Ontario right now. We don't have overflowing shelters like the US. But 100% will probably do this when possible.
Adopt a senior? Yes, will consider, BUT I genuinely don't want to see my best friend die in 5 years.
Another breed? Yes, I will consider, BUT certain recs weren't my type and I was honest. But obviously will look continue to look into other breeds.
GSD not for me? Yes, if they're not for me, then I won't get one! But I wanted a range of opinions as there are a lot of GSD owners who DO thrive in apartments, and I'm not going to take GSD off my list just because I'm not a multi millionaire that can afford a house in Toronto right now. If it's a criticism of my activity level, valid. I accepted that. I won't get a GSD if I can't provide enough stimulation. It's why I'm asking about the possibility of medium energy GSDs. 

I'm not going to get a GSD if I clearly can't care for one, don't worry.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

The thing about a rescue dog - some of them have issues that a newbie shouldn't deal with BUT responsible rescue organizations tell you about these up front. explain your situation and they will work to get you the right dog, and you can return the dog if it's not going to work out. 

Re. bonding - a rescue dog will deeply bond with someone who treats them well. I've never had an issue bonding with my rescue dogs, if anything, they are MORE clingy.

Re. the age issue - this can be hard, but again, you can manage it by picking a slightly younger but still mature dog. The GSD rescue in my area has dogs that are one year old and dogs that are 10 years old and everything in between.

My big issue is that if you want a GSD or a husky - those are both high energy breeds. And a puppy??? Come on. When I got my puppy, I didn't get much sleep for the first couple of weeks. Puppies take a lot of work.

If you have your heart set on a high energy breed, an older, more mature dog from a reputable rescue gives you a chance to ease into dog ownership. A reputable rescue will match you up with a dog that fits your lifestyle and abilities. Just be honest with them and let them know you're a novice.

Again, going with the rescue in my area - some of the dogs would NOT be for a novice. Some are dog reactive or have killed small animals. Others, however, are nicely behaved, calm and well trained dogs who were abandoned due to bad circumstances - an owner died or the family was going through financial hard times, etc. One dog that is listed, for example, is 5 years old, crate trained, good with children, cats and other dogs. At 5, he will still require a good amount of exercise but you won't need to deal with the puppy exuberance on top of it...

my fear is that you will adopt a puppy who will bond with you and then end up dumping the dog when you can't give it the training or exercise it needs. In my mind, a dog is a lifetime responsibility - for the life of the dog. particularly with a GSD that bonds so deeply... just my two cents worth.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I haven’t read everything so I’m sure you got great advice. Yes, a GSD in an apartment is doable. They are all low energy inside, home is for rest sleep and hanging out with owners. If a pup doesn’t come with an off switch you’ll teach him one. If you are young and have energy yourself then get a pup. You’ll grow together, learn together and figure out what you both enjoy doing together. You don’t really know right now. 

You think you would like to hike twice a month and then you start doing it, meeting people, liking more and more to spend time with your dog, getting in shape and suddenly you go hiking every weekend, or take a trip to a cabin in the mountains, start skijoring or get into some other activity... you can’t really predict. Get a resilient puppy with good amount of drive and good nerves so you can actually enjoy doing different things. Drivey dogs are not just for sport homes


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## Elisabeth Ann Parent (Dec 1, 2016)

I was informed you read an old post from me and my experience in an apartment with the breed.

I have raised 4 German Shepherds in an apartment now.. Two who are very high drive working dogs.

We are out daily either hiking or training and weekends are dedicated to IGP training and a longer hike usually.

I would say the hardest part is not having a dog in an apartment... It is dealing with other people who have dogs in an apartment. My dogs are dog neutral but it takes a lot of management.. There are dogs on flexi leashes coming around corners with no ow er in sight snarling at my dogs.. If you do not have 110% control things could do really badly.

If your new to the breed, reach out to some local breed clubs.. I am in Kitchener but know some in Toronto I could recommend. 

Get to know the different lines and exactly what you can and WANT to deal with every day... A GSD is a great breed only when you put the work into it.. And it doesn't stop at puppyhood.


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## violetmd (Aug 7, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> Define "make it work". Because honestly, your description of enough exercise would drive my dog insane. Lol.


I don't know anything about their lives except we see them on their walks regularly, so take that with a grain of salt lol.

It’s true that every dog is different! My childhood dog was a husky/shepherd mix whose daily “walk” was running for 1- 2 hours. A normal walk would’ve been a joke to her. Ironically her name was also Shadow lol.

Random pic of Millie from today. 🥰


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

violetmd said:


> I don't know anything about their lives except we see them on their walks regularly, so take that with a grain of salt lol.
> 
> It’s true that every dog is different! My childhood dog was a husky/shepherd mix whose daily “walk” was running for 1- 2 hours. A normal walk would’ve been a joke to her. Ironically her name was also Shadow lol.


This thing upstairs makes me nuts! Dog is out twice a day to pee for 10 seconds and once a week it might get a walk. It's a one year old Bouv/GSD/Whoever mom found on her 3 day jaunt! Lol. It barks and smashes stuff around for hours on end! It barked non stop for 6.5 hours a few days ago.
I feel sorry for Shadow if we are out for less then 4 walks a day, and it's -20 here right now! We used to call Shadow my little energizer bunny, she would literally run around until she collapsed in a heap.


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

Perhaps I should have read through every response as these may be repeats.. not to try and make up your mind one way or the other but a few things I'd consider before taking the plunge... I am by no means an expert - there are far more experienced and knowledgeable owners and trainers on this forum.

German Shepherds can be vocal dogs, while many are very well behaved and will shush on command .. I wouldn't be surprised living with shared walls to have complaints from neighbours - and while a landlord can't evict you for having a dog they may opt (the bad ones) to do their best to make you miserable.

I have a working line sable boy, about 1.5yrs old now. I wouldn't consider him high energy by any stretch but he's a handful and has plenty of drive to learn and just generally stick his nose everywhere it's not required lol He settles easily in the house but we walk 7ish kms a day unless it's too cold, have play time in the yard and constant mini training sessions in the house. You'd have to be creative if you're in a very small space as they're smart dogs and will master the basics early on if you work at it.

This doesn't go for all GSDs but my guy def isn't dog park friendly, he's not a mean dog but is pushy and would likely start a fight. If your plan is to rely on off leash dog parks for exercise you may easily end up with an adult dog who isn't suited to them.

As a side note .. I think lots of people base their "type" of dog on appearances when it should very much be based on many other things. That's how a lot of good dogs end up as 1-2yr olds with behavioural issues in shelters and rescues seeking experienced people to adopt them.

I'm certain an appartment/condo could work for the right dog and owner just be very honest with yourself about a few things...


you should get a breed/dog that suits your current activity level and not what you think you'll do once you have them.. start your long walks and such now, make sure you're committed and then add the furry companion. I'd like to pretend I could manage an aussie or border collie lol but the truth is ... I'd hate my life.
your ability to train said puppy (post covid may be different) but until the world changes dramatically in person training opportunities may be few and far between... and you will be stuck with online videos and random strangers from the internet. I'm trying to self teach scent detection right now - it's a different experience without a class to go to and someone to watch and correct my mistakes.

Best of luck with your decision making!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Elisabeth Ann Parent said:


> I was informed you read an old post from me and my experience in an apartment with the breed.
> 
> I have raised 4 German Shepherds in an apartment now.. Two who are very high drive working dogs.
> 
> ...


There are some very good points here. All apartments are not created equal and you should keep things in mind if you want to get a dog. The apartment I had before was more like a townhouse. I could come and go through my front door or garage without having to deal with other dogs. The apartment I have now, I need to take the elevator to leave or 8 flights of stairs. It’s not nearly as easy to avoid other dogs. Another thing the other apartment had over this one is access to a park. I could walk 5 minutes to work and train my dog off leash. While I can walk 5 minutes to a park now, it’s not somewhere I would take my dog off leash.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

violetmd said:


> I don't know anything about their lives except we see them on their walks regularly, so take that with a grain of salt lol.
> 
> It’s true that every dog is different! My childhood dog was a husky/shepherd mix whose daily “walk” was running for 1- 2 hours. A normal walk would’ve been a joke to her. Ironically her name was also Shadow lol.
> 
> ...


Beautiful dog!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

GSD07 said:


> I haven’t read everything so I’m sure you got great advice. Yes, a GSD in an apartment is doable. They are all low energy inside, home is for rest sleep and hanging out with owners.


Wait, what? 
They're definitely not all low energy inside and teaching an off switch is sometimes easier said than done. GSD are generally quite adaptable but I prefer to discuss what's optimal for them, not what they can adjust to if necessary.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Wait, what?
> They're definitely not all low energy inside and teaching an off switch is sometimes easier said than done. GSD are generally quite adaptable but I prefer to discuss what's optimal for them, not what they can adjust to if necessary.


Yes they are. So what do yours do inside? Bounce off the walls? Play fetch? Run obstacle course? Why is it hard to train an off switch, requires work? Settling inside is not optimal for shepherds? Ok.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Wait, what?
> They're definitely not all low energy inside and teaching an off switch is sometimes easier said than done. GSD are generally quite adaptable but I prefer to discuss what's optimal for them, not what they can adjust to if necessary.


I agree with you. My concern was that the OP mentioned they were sorta lazy and would prefer a lower energy dog... so... WTH??? GSDs are NOT low energy dogs!!!


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

GSD07 said:


> Yes they are. So what do yours do inside? Bounce off the walls? Play fetch? Run obstacle course? Why is it hard to train an off switch, requires work? Settling inside is not optimal for shepherds? Ok.


My GSD has a great off switch... it's actually not hard to train at all (at least in my experience) IF you give them the exercise they require.

I have always had high energy dogs and never had any issues with them chewing my walls - generally, when we come inside, they'll dash around a bit for a few minutes, then settle right down and are pretty mellow. 

BUT - every day we go outdoors and they get to exercise HARD. My concern with the OP was that he indicated he was sorta lazy and would prefer a lower energy dog... in which case... why would you get a fricking GSD???


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## patches (Nov 5, 2013)

From what the OP described, I would not recommend a GSD, and that is not based on living in an apartment.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> I would take this test and see what matches you and your lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got...Border Collie! That is probably the last herding breed I would ever want.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Shefali said:


> I agree with you. My concern was that the OP mentioned they were sorta lazy and would prefer a lower energy dog... so... WTH??? GSDs are NOT low energy dogs!!!


Mine are drivey but they are not high energy. Once they hit 2-3 they were practically couch potatoes. I do exercise and work them a lot, though.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

@Shefali you prove my point, they normally settle inside just fine, all work and play happens outside.

The OP mentioned that he does not want to be lazy anymore and wants to be active. He also wrote ‘I am inexperienced, but I am committed to learning about how to properly train a puppy/dog, get them properly socialized, and am committed to them for the next 10-15 years. I understand it's a lifetime commitment...’ I do believe a GSD is a good dog for a first time dog owner if the owner is committed.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> I got...Border Collie! That is probably the last herding breed I would ever want.


I feel like I would have to live a very different lifestyle to deal with a border collie. I do love the breed, just too much for me.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

I totally agree with finn's mom...you need to look realistically at the life you want to live, and then find the dog to fit it! 
A mellow adult dog sounds like a better fit for you than a young GSD or puppy bursting with energy...

When dog shopping, this was our honest realistic criteria:
a) we've always liked the GSD breed - aloof, protective, athletic, intelligent
b) no sleepless nights (argh, had enough of that with the kids!)
c) wanted a calm quiet dog that could chill out while I work (I work from home)
d) we like to hike, and are outdoorsy. So we wanted the size/breed of dog that could enjoy this with us.

And our shepherd/husky rescue has been a good match:
a) he somehow did get the GSD personality, even though he's a mix
b) as 5-6 yr old adult, he slept through the night easily without having to go out
c) we met several dogs through the GSD rescue ... at his home visit, our dog settled down for a nap. I realized that I could live with this dog...
d) he likes to go out, always, in all kinds of weather, for long rambles of an hour or more (just like me!) 

Provided he had his long daily rambles, and enough owner attention, our dog would do fine in an apartment.

But also consider the struggles you may encounter as a Renter with a GSD (what if your rent goes up and you need to find another place to live?):

"dangerous dog" lists (ugh)
pet size restrictions
pet rent, pet deposit
noise complaints - if your dog is the kind of GSD that barks at everybody that walks by your door

_PS Taking dog breed quizzes, I kept getting "Canaan Dog". I literally never heard of that breed. But, the dog breed quizzes ask you questions about your preferences for noise, shedding, training, activity level. So they make you think..._


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

I breifly skimmed your post and a gsd isn’t for you

1. you’re lazy. Your dog won’t be.
2. A gsd is nothing like a husky
3. In my opinion an apartment isn’t a suitable home for a high energy dog like a gsd. Can it work? Yes. Well actually.. no. Your neighbors will hate you bc your dog will bark. The only exercise he will get will be if you take him somewhere. It’s just a no go. I have a big house on .3 acres and I’m considering moving just for my dog as he really needs more land


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

A leash walk isn't exercise. Off leash hiking, fetch games, tug, flirt pole, swimming, Nosework, hard running is exercise.


finn'smom said:


> Perhaps I should have read through every response as these may be repeats.. not to try and make up your mind one way or the other but a few things I'd consider before taking the plunge... I am by no means an expert - there are far more experienced and knowledgeable owners and trainers on this forum.
> 
> German Shepherds can be vocal dogs, while many are very well behaved and will shush on command .. I wouldn't be surprised living with shared walls to have complaints from neighbours - and while a landlord can't evict you for having a dog they may opt (the bad ones) to do their best to make you miserable.
> 
> ...


Quick note, post video of your Nosework training!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I suggest you read through the puppy section to get an idea of what many first time owners deal with. Many people have an idea of the GSD that doesn't match up with reality.

I've lived in much smaller accommodations than a studio apartment with a very high drive, high energy GSD, but it was my full time job. Off days, we spent a lot of time in the gym on the treadmill and doing strenuous training. You have to be ready to problem solve and get creative. As an older dog (7 years), she required much less exercise. An of leash 30 minute romp in the morning and some Nosework in the afternoon and she was content. She was a fantastic, active family dog in her older years. She bonded very well with me and the family. I get her when she was 4.

My current pup is 9 months old. In the last 7 months, we have failed to go out for our morning adventure on 3 occasions. We spend a minimum of 1.5 hours, plus drive time, every morning doing fun stuff. I also have a park right across the street that we use for afternoon and evening parkour adventures. We also camp a lot. The dogs are fine on long travel days and they enjoy life in the camper. They also get a lot of exercise and mental stimulation daily while camping.

I think training is also a big challenge for new owners. Developing the knowledge, timing and self control necessary to be a good leader takes either a lot of self study and mistakes or a lot of help from experienced trainers. It's usually both.

Something I always recommend is meeting dogs and owners. I suggest you take up @Elisabeth Ann Parent on her offer to put you in touch with some clubs. Go check it out and get involved.

I think you could be successful. It would depend on your commitment. The learning curve is steep. It involves blood, bruises, time, more money than you think, but it's worth it IMO.

Campground adventure training pic


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

GSD07 said:


> Yes they are. So what do yours do inside? Bounce off the walls? Play fetch? Run obstacle course? Why is it hard to train an off switch, requires work? Settling inside is not optimal for shepherds? Ok.


Declaring absolutes is never the best route. Telling a novice prospective GSD owner that they're "all low energy inside" is demonstrably false. Should they be, can they be? Sure, maybe.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

WNGD said:


> Declaring absolutes is never the best route. Telling a novice prospective GSD owner that they're "all low energy inside" is demonstrably false. Should they be, can they be? Sure, maybe.


A well bred dog receiving proper exercise and mental stimulation will be calm in the house. The dogs I know of that have issues settling would be a bad fit for the OP for other reasons.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

One more point I would like to add is that you never get a day off, not for the life of the dog. They have to get out, at least twice a day, every day, and that seems much too little to me. It doesn't matter if you are sick or injured, if the weather is awful, if you just don't want to do it, it has to be done, every single time. If you are completely unable to do that, you would have to have someone who could fill in for you.

Our dog is pretty much a couch potato indoors, but we live on a farm and he "helps" with chores and everything else we do outside every day, at least twice a day, or whenever we go out. He also "helps" inside, especially when it involves the vacuum cleaner. He's WGSL, not working line, which might make some difference. 

I have no idea how much exercise he actually gets, since he is never on a leash while at home, but he's free to run around as much as he wants and explore things that catch his interest as long as he's on the property and within sight. That has never been a problem, though. He's always close by. When we go inside, he's ready to settle down for a nap. 

I do think it's possible to keep one of these dogs in a apartment, but it will take dedication. I also think that adopting an adult dog might be a good option.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> I feel like I would have to live a very different lifestyle to deal with a border collie. I do love the breed, just too much for me.


They need a lot of outdoor time and space. A friend had several of them years ago and I don’t remember her dogs being that difficult or active. She used to take them to classes with her in college. They either sat quietly inside or waited outside. They have bred much more intensity into the breed since then.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> They need a lot of outdoor time and space. A friend had several of them years ago and I don’t remember her dogs being that difficult or active. She used to take them to classes with her in college. They either sat quietly inside or waited outside. They have bred much more intensity into the breed since then.


The one I knew needed to start his day off with 30 minutes of exercise and an hour walk basically. The guy said he got weird if he didn’t. The other ones I’ve known were always on the go. They have a strong working line/show line split.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Shefali said:


> The thing about a rescue dog - some of them have issues that a newbie shouldn't deal with BUT responsible rescue organizations tell you about these up front. explain your situation and they will work to get you the right dog, and you can return the dog if it's not going to work out.
> 
> Re. the age issue - this can be hard, but again, you can manage it by picking a slightly younger but still mature dog. The GSD rescue in my area has dogs that are one year old and dogs that are 10 years old and everything in between.


I'd actually be fine with a mature adult dog that isn't quite a senior yet! We don't have much of a overflowing shelter problem here in Ontario though. I will 100% keep trying for this option though! 



> My big issue is that if you want a GSD or a husky - those are both high energy breeds. And a puppy??? Come on. When I got my puppy, I didn't get much sleep for the first couple of weeks. Puppies take a lot of work.
> 
> If you have your heart set on a high energy breed, an older, more mature dog from a reputable rescue gives you a chance to ease into dog ownership. A reputable rescue will match you up with a dog that fits your lifestyle and abilities. Just be honest with them and let them know you're a novice.


I'm very aware they're both super high energy breeds haha. But yes, I plan to be very honest and upfront with rescues. I also know a puppy will be like having a baby, so I wouldn't do it unless I knew I was WFH or had some time off. It's actually the reason I'd prefer a young adult/adult. I only started considering breeders and puppies relatively recently because rescues are so overwhelmed right now and I'm competing with people who have experience, have a fenced yard, and who don't work FT (and that's fine, the dog needs to go where it's going to thrive best!) 



> Again, going with the rescue in my area - some of the dogs would NOT be for a novice. Some are dog reactive or have killed small animals. Others, however, are nicely behaved, calm and well trained dogs who were abandoned due to bad circumstances - an owner died or the family was going through financial hard times, etc. One dog that is listed, for example, is 5 years old, crate trained, good with children, cats and other dogs. At 5, he will still require a good amount of exercise but you won't need to deal with the puppy exuberance on top of it...


100% am open to adult dogs! I might have to keep looking post COVID though as all the dogs in Ontario unless they're a senior are getting 100's of apps. 



> my fear is that you will adopt a puppy who will bond with you and then end up dumping the dog when you can't give it the training or exercise it needs. In my mind, a dog is a lifetime responsibility - for the life of the dog. particularly with a GSD that bonds so deeply... just my two cents worth.


A genuine fear. I get that. I know a dog is a lifetime responsibility. Thank you for your 2 cents


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

GSD07 said:


> I haven’t read everything so I’m sure you got great advice. Yes, a GSD in an apartment is doable. They are all low energy inside, home is for rest sleep and hanging out with owners. If a pup doesn’t come with an off switch you’ll teach him one. If you are young and have energy yourself then get a pup. You’ll grow together, learn together and figure out what you both enjoy doing together. You don’t really know right now.
> 
> You think you would like to hike twice a month and then you start doing it, meeting people, liking more and more to spend time with your dog, getting in shape and suddenly you go hiking every weekend, or take a trip to a cabin in the mountains, start skijoring or get into some other activity... you can’t really predict. Get a resilient puppy with good amount of drive and good nerves so you can actually enjoy doing different things. Drivey dogs are not just for sport homes


Ahaha thank you for your optimism. I definitely want to enjoy the outdoors with my dog. I will definitely be careful and evaluate my life before deciding on getting a GSD!


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Elisabeth Ann Parent said:


> I was informed you read an old post from me and my experience in an apartment with the breed.
> 
> I have raised 4 German Shepherds in an apartment now.. Two who are very high drive working dogs.
> 
> ...


Oh hellloooooo thank you for traveling to my post! Thank you for the extra perspective on how much exercise you give your dogs, and also the potential reactivity to other dogs. 
I will definitely reach out for those local breed clubs (I also don't mind traveling to Kitchener) in the future if I'm still debating on a GSD!


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

finn'smom said:


> Perhaps I should have read through every response as these may be repeats.. not to try and make up your mind one way or the other but a few things I'd consider before taking the plunge... I am by no means an expert - there are far more experienced and knowledgeable owners and trainers on this forum.
> 
> German Shepherds can be vocal dogs, while many are very well behaved and will shush on command .. I wouldn't be surprised living with shared walls to have complaints from neighbours - and while a landlord can't evict you for having a dog they may opt (the bad ones) to do their best to make you miserable.
> 
> ...


No worries about reading through all the responses. It's a lot haha. Thank you for your input!
RE: Shared walls - valid point. Will take into consideration.
RE: walk - 7km is easily doable for me if I got a similar energy dog to yours (not saying this is what I will do for those who will jump on me and say 7 isn't enough). I know without a yard I'd have to take my dog to the park/trails/dog parks but I do have a car and am willing to make those trips. 
RE: dog parks - valid point. I will thoroughly research other methods of exercise before committing.
RE: type - honestly I get where you and everyone else is coming from, but I'm not going to get a GSD or Husky just because I like their looks. I'd like to look at my dog and go "man I got a majestic beast for a best friend", but it's not the reason I'm going to buy a dog 😄

RE: activity - Yes, thank you. You're right, I should try for the long walks now. I did say I'm "lazy" but it's more like if I don't have someone to do it with I'm not as motivated/I don't feel safe? I also have a lot of anxiety walking alone as a young woman in a rough neighbourhood. With someone else or with a dog, I feel more secure (so I do go for walks with my friends or walk my friends' dogs). I am working on becoming more fit though (at-home exercises) and I will continue to do so, thank you!
RE: COVID training. You're right. I've thought about how difficult it may be without in-person classes. Likely I will wait post-COVID. Thank you.

Overall thanks so much for your response!


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Shefali said:


> My GSD has a great off switch... it's actually not hard to train at all (at least in my experience) IF you give them the exercise they require.
> 
> I have always had high energy dogs and never had any issues with them chewing my walls - generally, when we come inside, they'll dash around a bit for a few minutes, then settle right down and are pretty mellow.
> 
> BUT - every day we go outdoors and they get to exercise HARD. My concern with the OP was that he indicated he was sorta lazy and would prefer a lower energy dog... in which case... why would you get a fricking GSD???


I'm actually a she!  
I said I'd pick low over high, but I don't want a low energy dog! You're right though that if my activity level doesn't suit a GSD, then I shouldn't get a GSD. I'll make sure my activity level is upped before I decide to get one or not.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

GSD07 said:


> @Shefali you prove my point, they normally settle inside just fine, all work and play happens outside.
> 
> The OP mentioned that he does not want to be lazy anymore and wants to be active. He also wrote ‘I am inexperienced, but I am committed to learning about how to properly train a puppy/dog, get them properly socialized, and am committed to them for the next 10-15 years. I understand it's a lifetime commitment...’ I do believe a GSD is a good dog for a first time dog owner if the owner is committed.


*She! 
but thank you for recognizing my want to change and that I won't make this decision willy nilly. 
(Sorry for multiple post replies!)


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

GSDchoice said:


> I totally agree with finn's mom...you need to look realistically at the life you want to live, and then find the dog to fit it!
> A mellow adult dog sounds like a better fit for you than a young GSD or puppy bursting with energy...
> 
> When dog shopping, this was our honest realistic criteria:
> ...


Loved your whole response. Will definitely consider adopting post-COVID when dog-craze has calmed down. 
And about renting, you're right, it's a whooooole list of considerations - pet rent and deposits are illegal here, but landlords definitely still try. I don't think we have dangerous dog lists here in Ontario but I could be wrong. I think only PitBulls are outright banned in Quebec but not in Ontario. If my rent goes up, it goes up. There are a lot of dog-friendly apartment complexes, I would just have to suffer with shared laundry. I'd make sure my emergency fund and finances are enough to support me and my dog for the next 10 years though. I won't get a dog if suddenly losing my place means I have to rehome my dog. 

P.S. Canaan dogs are super cute! I just don't know how easily found they are in general lol. I got King Shepherds on that quiz.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Getting a senior might not be a bad idea. I have a senior now who is my higher energy dog. Runs all over the place. 8 is considered a senior. If you take one from a rescue now they will be indebted to you for the next one.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

CatMan900 said:


> I breifly skimmed your post and a gsd isn’t for you
> 
> 1. you’re lazy. Your dog won’t be.
> 2. A gsd is nothing like a husky
> 3. In my opinion an apartment isn’t a suitable home for a high energy dog like a gsd. Can it work? Yes. Well actually.. no. Your neighbors will hate you bc your dog will bark. The only exercise he will get will be if you take him somewhere. It’s just a no go. I have a big house on .3 acres and I’m considering moving just for my dog as he really needs more land


The whole point is that GSDs are not like huskies. They're loyal and eager to please, unlike huskies. But thank you for your opinion. I'm sure your dogs are very grateful to have an owner willing to move just for their happiness and well-being


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## Bella99 (Sep 4, 2017)

All I have to say is that if someone is truly. TRULY dedicated to owning certain breeds in an apartment. It’s totally possible. I helped someone import a husky from Russia and he lives in an apartment. Husky’s are high energy long stamina dogs. I made sure he did an immense amount of research before deciding on his “dream” breed. He’s joining a local club with his husky and will be doing OB classes, pulling classes, and conformation classes ALL as a novice first time dog owner. 

Now as for the GSD. There are different lines yes. They all throw different levels of dogs with different levels of drives. The Breed as a whole I would consider more of a medium to high energy dog. Heck. Well bred labs are wonderful high energy happy go lucky nutcases and that’s part of why they excel so well in service work. But they make good family pets. I think so long as you’re willing to put in the work, energy, and give up part of your life to this dog that you will do fine. Maybe find a local GSD club near you and join some Obedience classes? Make a game plan and set goals for you and your future dog and try to think about how you can make your goals happen. Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Pawsed said:


> One more point I would like to add is that you never get a day off, not for the life of the dog. They have to get out, at least twice a day, every day, and that seems much too little to me. It doesn't matter if you are sick or injured, if the weather is awful, if you just don't want to do it, it has to be done, every single time. If you are completely unable to do that, you would have to have someone who could fill in for you.
> 
> Our dog is pretty much a couch potato indoors, but we live on a farm and he "helps" with chores and everything else we do outside every day, at least twice a day, or whenever we go out. He also "helps" inside, especially when it involves the vacuum cleaner. He's WGSL, not working line, which might make some difference.
> 
> ...


I definitely understand my dog will be like having a toddler for the next 10-15 years. Living on a farm seems like such a nice life for a dog. Thank you


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Bella99 said:


> All I have to say is that if someone is truly. TRULY dedicated to owning certain breeds in an apartment. It’s totally possible. I helped someone import a husky from Russia and he lives in an apartment. Husky’s are high energy long stamina dogs. I made sure he did an immense amount of research before deciding on his “dream” breed. He’s joining a local club with his husky and will be doing OB classes, pulling classes, and conformation classes ALL as a novice first time dog owner.
> 
> Now as for the GSD. There are different lines yes. They all throw different levels of dogs with different levels of drives. The Breed as a whole I would consider more of a medium to high energy dog. Heck. Well bred labs are wonderful high energy happy go lucky nutcases and that’s part of why they excel so well in service work. But they make good family pets. I think so long as you’re willing to put in the work, energy, and give up part of your life to this dog that you will do fine. Maybe find a local GSD club near you and join some Obedience classes? Make a game plan and set goals for you and your future dog and try to think about how you can make your goals happen. Good luck.
> 
> ...


100% would love to join obedience classes with my dog, GSD or not. Thank you for your response! Will make sure I'm 100% dedicated to all aspects before seriously considering one.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

David Winners said:


> I suggest you read through the puppy section to get an idea of what many first time owners deal with. Many people have an idea of the GSD that doesn't match up with reality.
> 
> I've lived in much smaller accommodations than a studio apartment with a very high drive, high energy GSD, but it was my full time job. Off days, we spent a lot of time in the gym on the treadmill and doing strenuous training. You have to be ready to problem solve and get creative. As an older dog (7 years), she required much less exercise. An of leash 30 minute romp in the morning and some Nosework in the afternoon and she was content. She was a fantastic, active family dog in her older years. She bonded very well with me and the family. I get her when she was 4.
> 
> ...


Adorable GSD! 

Thank you for your suggestion. I'm already learning a lot reading through the forum. Will definitely keep reading to get a better picture.

I really appreciate a look into your life with your GSDs. It does sound like a lot of work, and I will make sure I'm committed to following through before seriously considering getting a GSD. I will definitely consider taking up Elisabeth's offer post-COVID! I appreciate both your recommendations on these GSD clubs. Until recently, I had never actually considered going to a breeder (was so sure I was going to adopt from a rescue if I ever got a dog), so clubs weren't even on my radar. Also didn't think random people like me without a dog would be welcome to just stroll in haha. Thanks!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

oink said:


> No worries about reading through all the responses. It's a lot haha. Thank you for your input!
> RE: Shared walls - valid point. Will take into consideration.
> RE: walk - 7km is easily doable for me if I got a similar energy dog to yours (not saying this is what I will do for those who will jump on me and say 7 isn't enough). I know without a yard I'd have to take my dog to the park/trails/dog parks but I do have a car and am willing to make those trips.
> RE: dog parks - valid point. I will thoroughly research other methods of exercise before committing.
> ...


I was going to suggest adopting an adult dog and even moreso reading this. A puppy is a puppy, and it doesn't look and isn't able to be a deterrent for a good while.


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## Max’s Owner (Aug 10, 2020)

You have received a lot of great advice.

I want to commend you on your honesty -more honest than most with their capabilities and lifestyle. As well as your willingness to research BEFORE owning a dog.  Keep up with the disposition to learn.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I was going to suggest adopting an adult dog and even moreso reading this. A puppy is a puppy, and it doesn't look and isn't able to be a deterrent for a good while.


They grow so fast though! But although a GSD is a great deterrent, I mostly anticipate my dog being more of a motivator for myself than a deterrent for others. It's a rough neighborhood but I'd just be cautious to not walk around at night/too early in the morning. From what I've read here I have to be careful with exercising a GSD puppy - hard concrete, fetch, etc. But yes I'd love an adult dog if I can get approved!


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

Max’s Owner said:


> You have received a lot of great advice.
> 
> I want to commend you on your honesty -more honest than most with their capabilities and lifestyle. As well as your willingness to research BEFORE owning a dog.  Keep up with the disposition to learn.


Yes! The owners here are all very passionate about the breed and their dogs and I know they mean well. I am taking all the advice, including the ones that say I shouldn't get a GSD, to heart. Thank you for your kind words.


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

oink said:


> I don't think we have dangerous dog lists here in Ontario but I could be wrong. I think only PitBulls are outright banned in Quebec but not in Ontario


Read up on breed specific legislation in Ontario, it exists despite many municipalities opting to not enforce it unless there are complaints against specific dogs or issues with them.

and there is no breed specific legislation in Quebec, it was tabled and shot down in 2017ish?? Montreal did ban pit bulls and type?? dogs but I think that may have been tossed shortly after being brought in - I could be wrong on that one!


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## BleuHaus (Oct 31, 2020)

oink said:


> EDIT: Thanks for everyone's responses. Some quick things I'll address:
> RE: my activity level - I won't get a GSD if my activity level is not up to par. I am working to improve and get more fit, but I won't get a dog if I can't meet it's required mental and physical exercise requirements.
> RE: adopting/fostering - Yes, I will consider it post-COVID. Ontario dogs have 100's of apps for each dog unless they're a senior dog. Yes, I will keep my mind open to adopting a senior dog.
> 
> ...


I have 13 Working line German Shepherds...I will tell you a few things...First of all German Shepherd puppies grow up and are much different then their puppy stage...What I'm trying to say is that a puppy can be very quiet and all...But as the mature so can their drives...so they can then be more energetic but with training they can learn to relax and be exactly what you want...
I would say to get an adult or young adult...If you don't want to breed or show then adopt...
Yes...not all working line puppies are High Drive...So they can be perfect for you...but I would advise you to check out places to train (find trainers) and go and hang out and talk to people about everything you might have a question about...
Not sure if you know about some Working Dog type training but Schutzhund is a dog sport and if you can find a Schutzhund Club around you you could go and visit and learn before you jump into a puppy/dog...
If you have questions that I can help you with...feel free to ask...


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

BleuHaus said:


> I have 13 Working line German Shepherds...I will tell you a few things...First of all German Shepherd puppies grow up and are much different then their puppy stage...What I'm trying to say is that a puppy can be very quiet and all...But as the mature so can their drives...so they can then be more energetic but with training they can learn to relax and be exactly what you want...
> I would say to get an adult or young adult...If you don't want to breed or show then adopt...
> Yes...not all working line puppies are High Drive...So they can be perfect for you...but I would advise you to check out places to train (find trainers) and go and hang out and talk to people about everything you might have a question about...
> Not sure if you know about some Working Dog type training but Schutzhund is a dog sport and if you can find a Schutzhund Club around you you could go and visit and learn before you jump into a puppy/dog...
> If you have questions that I can help you with...feel free to ask...


Wow 13! Thank you so much for your answer. Great to know that there's a chance WL puppy is possible. 

I've started looking into Schutzhund thanks to this forum! At first I thought it was just protection training and wasn't interested but now I realize it's more like an all in one training. It looks awesome. Thanks so much I will definitely start asking around at clubs after COVID. 

Yes, am still very open to adopting and will keep trying for that. Will reach out if I have more questions!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Don't others think the OP might have trouble adopting if he's in an apartment? I tried to adopt a young GSD a year ago (140 applications) and a big thing they absolutely require is a fenced yard. I would think no yard would be a no go. Maybe older dogs they aren't so picky?


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Don't others think the OP might have trouble adopting if he's in an apartment? I tried to adopt a young GSD a year ago (140 applications) and a big thing they absolutely require is a fenced yard. I would think no yard would be a no go. Maybe older dogs they aren't so picky?


You're 100% right trying to adopt in Ontario right now is so difficult. Especially for someone like me who's a novice owner with no yard. With older dogs they aren't as picky, but it's also because the older dogs generally need lighter exercise so don't really "need" a yard. I'm definitely keeping an eye out though. I found one rescue that seems to not discriminate against apartments: Home - Redemption Paws so hope isn't lost haha


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## coolgsd (May 1, 2010)

oink said:


> Thanks for your input! I've considered fostering before. Can I ask if the reason is because you think I should foster until I'm NOT living in an apartment? Or is it because I should gain some more experience? Or both?


Depending on the age, a GSD can be very demanding. If you get a dominant temperament, you have your hands full and may be over your head quickly. That may be an extreme case but after 45 years of GSDs our new pup is a handful and I am "babysitting" about 17 hours a day with her. She will be my last at 72 years but almost more than I can handle. She needs to go outside to relieve herself about 7 times a day at a minimum (including exercise times). I could crate her for 6 hours at a time but it wouldn't be fair to her at all.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

coolgsd said:


> Depending on the age, a GSD can be very demanding. If you get a dominant temperament, you have your hands full and may be over your head quickly. That may be an extreme case but after 45 years of GSDs our new pup is a handful and I am "babysitting" about 17 hours a day with her. She will be my last at 72 years but almost more than I can handle. She needs to go outside to relieve herself about 7 times a day at a minimum (including exercise times). I could crate her for 6 hours at a time but it wouldn't be fair to her at all.


That's amazing I don't think I could handle a puppy (or a child) at 72 years. You're a champ! I will definitely keep this in mind when deciding on a puppy or adult for a future dog. I mentally think I could handle it, but obviously the real thing could be too much for me.


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## SulcoPete (Sep 10, 2020)

When I bought my female GSD (GSL) the first thing I told the breeder was that I live in a small one bedroom in Brooklyn. She said - the size of the apartment doesn't matter. My experience has shown this to be absolutely true. The only thing that matters is companionship. GSDs don't exercise in the home. If yours is, well, you're doing that wrong. Mine likes to lay by the front door, by her water bowl, in her crate, or in the middle of the living room floor. She's happy living here and I'm super happy too. My only regret is that I didn't get her sooner.


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## oink (Jan 31, 2021)

SulcoPete said:


> When I bought my female GSD (GSL) the first thing I told the breeder was that I live in a small one bedroom in Brooklyn. She said - the size of the apartment doesn't matter. My experience has shown this to be absolutely true. The only thing that matters is companionship. GSDs don't exercise in the home. If yours is, well, you're doing that wrong. Mine likes to lay by the front door, by her water bowl, in her crate, or in the middle of the living room floor. She's happy living here and I'm super happy too. My only regret is that I didn't get her sooner.


So happy to hear about your adoration for your GSD. What kind of exercise do you do with your GSD in a busy city like Brooklyn?


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