# To neutor, or not to neutor



## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

Need some help on the subject. Damian is only 5 months old right now. I won't even consider the idea until after he is a year old, but I want to get some insight early on.

I was CONSIDERING breeding him when the time came, but honestly, I know nothing about the subject and I do not want to be an irresponsible breeder. I do not think I can devote the time I personally think is required to breed dogs. (Time to earn titles, etc. to make him breed worthy).

With that said, I was still juggling the idea of keeping him intact. I've gotten all my past dogs neutored and after the process, their energy level and excitement levels were drastically reduced. These were all non-GSD, so I'm not sure if thats how its going to be, thats why I'm asking for help. The only downside I had to the one intact dog I had (Lab) was that he did the humpage a bit more. Not even enough to make it problematic, but it was a bit more often. Once we finally got him neutored, he gained a crazy amount of weight, and just didn't seem excited like he used too.

Can you guys help me gather a list of the pro's and con's to this process so I can figure out the best solution? 

I'm sure there is lots of info on the subject, but I think I'm a search noob still. Thanks for your guys' continuous help I've received lately. Its really made my puppy experience an easier one!


----------



## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

How about a vasectomy? Also, you do not need to breed just because he is intact. Another thing to consider is that a lot of intact males are not very social with other dogs so if visiting dog parks is high on your list, you may wish to neuter. Your dog may be perfectly fine with his ballsies but other dogs can and do perceive intact males as threats and a fight could start just because your sweet boy smells too manly.


----------



## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Not to be rude
but its
"neuter"
My dog is 1 yr & is not neutered. But is very very excitable.
Quite hard to control sometimes.


----------



## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

Oh I didn't mean to sound like I needed to neuter him if he wasn't going to be bred. I was just throwing my idea's out there. I guess I just want to hear some opinions from people that have experiences on both sides of the subject.


----------



## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Angel RNot to be rude
> but its
> "neuter"
> My dog is 1 yr & is not neutered. But is very very excitable.
> Quite hard to control sometimes.


Oops, I'm used to Google Chrome. Edits my spelling for me, I'm at work at the moment on Internet Explorer. Thanks for the fix.


----------



## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

As long as you are willing to take the extra care that your dog not be able to escape or run off and possibly find a female dog in season and be a daddy, I dont see anything wrong at all with keeping your dog intact. Humping is more a behavior problem rather than an intact dog problem. Ive seen MANY altered dogs hump other dogs and people like crazy.


----------



## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm not worried about Damian getting out and being a daddy. We have a pretty secure piece of property. With that said, I think it would be pointless to have a vasectomy. From doing a bit of searching, it seems the main reason i personally would neuter is to eliminate the testicular cancer and prostate tumors. Are these issues that common in GSD's? Anyone ever have this problem?

BTW, I love your Dalmatians. I lost the thread where I asked you about behavior issues with Dalmatians and kids, so I never was able to see your response.


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I think it depends on what you want for your dog. I agree with this...



> Originally Posted By: DianaMAnother thing to consider is that a lot of intact males are not very social with other dogs so if visiting dog parks is high on your list, you may wish to neuter. Your dog may be perfectly fine with his ballsies but other dogs can and do perceive intact males as threats and a fight could start just because your sweet boy smells too manly.


I have 3 intact males in my house. They don't generally pick fights, but they won't back off of them either. They all pretty much get along with females and submissive dogs, but I have to watch out for other males that are dominant dogs or rough players. I don't find that any of them have any problems with people, but you can tell they get a little antsy and snotty when my bitch comes into heat, and things get a little testosteroni when they hit the 2ish year mark. But I like the way the males fill out, I think it's healthier, and I think it's helpful for my training. Also, I don't really have any of the other problems that people generally associate with intact males- marking, roaming, humping.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i was going to leave the cashman intact since i had some problems relating to the anesthesia with my last boy when he was neutered, which left me afraid of cash having general anesthesia. then he began having some urinary tract/prostate problems (at age 5), and three vet consults were all the same...he needs to be neutered.

no ill effects whatsoever, he had already reached his full developmental maturity and, if anything, he broadened and deepened even more. it did not change his personality at all, he is still a handfull, but has not had anymore "guy" problems.

http://sera-and-cash.blogspot.com


----------



## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Here is a thought from the veterinary world. (Not always publicly known, since we don't always have responsible owners.)
In general, it is now known that keeping your male dog intact until full sexual maturity actually decreases his chance of prostatic CANCER in his later life. (This isn't to say he wont get an enlarged prostate, but the chances of it becoming cancerous are MUCH less.)
Sexual maturity in large breeds is 2 years of age up to 4, depending on the genetics of the dog.
Not neutering your male early will also help to control excessive growth. Mr. Frodo was a HUGE pup. At just 2 weeks, he was 5 1/2 pounds. (No teeth, and eyes were still shut) He had a shattered hock that we put into a cast. I was concerned that he would become a big dog with a horrendous hind end, and I wanted to give him every chance to grow as sturdy as he could. He is within breed standards today, at a year and 1/2. (84 pounds and much shorter than I had feared.) His muscle mass is beautiful for a dog with a fused hock.
I am going to neuter him. I have a breed bitch in this house, and although he has NEVER been a rude boy, I don't ever want to take that chance. (And playing the separation game is a pain, if I know I'm not going to breed him!







)
He will see his second birthday before I go there.
Frodo has never been a bad Boy, because he is not allowed to be. Sniffing, humping and dominance get sharply corrected in this house. (Thank God for the bitch pack!







)
He is expected to sit like everyone else for nails, grooming, etc. He grumbles, complains, and sometimes cries like a baby, but he is expected to behave.
If you are willing to be the boss, then I think you will have no problems.
If you can reduce the chance of cancer, and then wipe out prostate problems when you neuter after 2, all the better.


----------



## ch3ckpo1nt (Nov 30, 2009)

This may take some thinking for awhile. Good thing I have time. Thanks for the all of the responses so far!


----------



## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I totally agree with the above post. I am new here, but not new to owning dogs. My lab is 6 and intact. He does not nor never has humped, marked, or been aggressive. These above issues to me are about training and are easily corrected at a young age. He is not hyper or ill behaved at all, but other males do not always get along with him if they too are intact so it is something I am conscious of when we go to the dog park


----------



## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

The GSD dog I have now, is a female that was spayed much too young imo. I rescued her and according to her records she was spayed at 4.5 months old. MUCH too young!
But, I used to have a beautiful male golden retriever, he was intact until just over 2 years of age. I only neutered him because I had his hips x-rayed and they were deemed "fair". I decided fair wasn't good enough to use his for breeding, so I had him neutered. For him, it was a mistake. He was near perfect in every way before the surgery. Never aggressive, never over-sexed, super confident and out-going, gorgeous silky coat, great muscle tone and not overly food driven.
All that changed after neutering. He was clingy and a less self confident, his main interest in life was now FOOD, and his coat became wispy and sort of curly. I see plenty of dogs that need to be neutered for temperament problems or what not, but my dog did not benefit from neutering...unless it saved him from some kind of cancer??


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I will say myself, family and friends have always had neutered male dogs who were vigorous, healthy and lived good long lives. Neutered at all ages, granted not purebred GSDs, so that might have some impact on their longevity. Zeb, a GSD-Golden was my sister's dog who lived to 14, Kramer was 16, Mookie passed away after my dad died, he was only 11, a very large Lab mix who kind of lost interest after my dad was gone. My sister's Chow-Shep mix Harley was 13 or 14 and he ate REALLY crappy food all his life. 

The smaller breed dogs of my aunts of course lived longer. 

So that's anecdotal information only. But shows that a male dog will, yes, eventually pass away, since there is no cure for death yet, and that even being neutered they ran and played hard, were great dogs, full of life, and not negatively impacted by their neuters. 

I've asked my vets and I know people think they have an agenda, to make money - but here they make a ton of money off hit by car and still tell people to leash their dogs, weird huh? Anyway, they see about 1-2 cases of bone cancer a year. 

The bottom line like someone says is if you have a strong preference not to neuter you also need as strong a resolve to keep your dog from appearing on the Maury baby daddy shows.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It depends on the dog and the training. Rush is four and intact. He does not mark (in the house) and is not a humper. Because our obedience classes often end in a CGC and the TDI has a CGC portion, Rush has passed the test four or five times and has never bothered another dog, male, female, speutered or not. I do ask others if their dogs are intact because I want to know and want to be able to notice any reaction from either dog.

He did have an issue with my brother's neutered older male, but they were put together, both as dominant dogs to live together, and the little dog (dachsund/beagle mix) attacked him the moment he set foot in the house.

The idea that intact dogs roam more than speutered animals is a containment issue that should be addressed regardless to the dog's status.

There are people out there that want everything with four feet to be desexed. I do not see the need so long as you keep the dog contained properly.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf 


I plan on leaving my male puppy intact.


----------



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> 
> The bottom line like someone says is if you have a strong preference not to neuter you also need as strong a resolve to keep your dog from appearing on the Maury baby daddy shows.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never neutered a dog. i've never had a problem
with my intact dogs.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I don't see as many of the health benefits to neutering as I do to spaying but I also haven't seen any detriment. Like Jean, my family has had many neutered male dogs and all have lived long healthy lives, all well into their teens. 

Fostering dogs I've seen many of the behavioral issues from not neutering. I'm not saying all unneutered dogs are going to do this stuff, but it does happen a lot and there really does seem to be a connection. We find that marking behavior and fighting with other male dogs both decrease a lot after the dog gets fixed. Similarly to what others have said, we've also seen that unneutered dogs are often a target for aggression from other males. 

I guess my bottom line is what others have said here, without a health problem like prostate issues or whatever, it comes down to whether or not your dog is showing any of those problem behaviors and how good a job you can do with containment.


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Samba said:


> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
> 
> 
> I plan on leaving my male puppy intact.


Thanks for the link.

I'm mad, I just had my dog neutered a few days ago, he's 7 months and of course not yet done growing...I didn't know any of this info and I def. would have waited if I did!!!

I wonder why it is that the Vets are so persistent with neutering before 6 months of age? They asked me probably 3 times and sent me 2 letters in the mail to get him neutered before he was 6 months and even offered a discount...

When I get my GSD I'm waiting until she's mature.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have an intact dog. I work him in classes with other males, some neutered, some intact. I have NEVER had a behavior problem due to keeping a dog intact. 

If a dog is being fostered, I do not know how someone can assume that behavior problems are caused by the presence of the testicals. How can they KNOW that the dog had been properly socialized and trained, and it is only the fact that he has testicals that causes him to act a certain way? How can they KNOW this? 

Seeing a change after a neuter, well, most people neuter dogs when they are in their butthead teenager stage. They indeed see a change after a neuter. They would have seen a change either way, the teenage butthead phase doesn't last forever regardless to the presence of testicals. 

So an older dog is neutered and now he is not marking as much and not fighting as much with other males. This is certainly possible. Maybe one could find reasons to contradict that the neuter is what did it, ie. dog is now settling into the routine, person corrected dog for marking in the house, etc, etc, but it may be true. This is certainly no reason to neuter a puppy that you intend to train and socialize. 

I think vets push the early neuter for a number of reasons, some ok, and some downright dispicable in my opinion:

1. there is probably some statistic somewhere that says X% of dogs that are neutered are neutered before six months. Which suggests that if the owner waits, he may never get the dog neutered, which means the vet will not get the business.

2. The early neuter costs less because of the amount of anesthetic, makes the estimate easier to stomach, and people are more likely to agree to it.

3. Puppies readily recover from the surgery.

4. Neutered puppies do not make more puppies. Some vets are aggressively pushing the spay/neuter campaign of local humane organizations.

5. Vets actually BELIEVE the garbage about aggressiveness and intact dogs. 

6. I do not think that most vets BELIEVE that studies that show greater risks for different diseases when a dog is spayed or neutered, as they are not seeing this in their own experience, eventhough they would not see it if they are not looking for it, and while they are actively encouraging early spay/neuter, they are unlikely to want to realize that it may not be good for dogs.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Max was neutered, but I don't remember what age, because I was like 2 then.lol But he didn't mark(in the house) was not agressive, healthy and super sweet. He was protective of his sister. She was spayed, wasn't agressive. Simba passed away due to old age, Max was put to sleep because of a cancerous tumor. Both were 14. Simba passed away before Max, and he wasn't himself after his sister passed away.

My parents asked the vet if neutereing may have cause the tumor, the vet said no and that it would have happened earlier in his life if it was.Plus the tumor was in his throat.

Molly is spayed, and is perfectly healthy, she got kennel cough from a dog at dog park. Tanner is neutered, I don't know what age. He doesn't mark the house, he isn't agressive. He is protective of his territory, I think most males are intact or not. My shelter spays and neuters all the dogs that come in.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

My GSD Sinister is a year old and he is not neutered. I am waiting until he turns 2 at least to neuter him. But I am not quite sure yet if I do want to neuter him. I take him to the dog park all of the time and we have never had an issue with other males or females. He has never marked in the house either, or at any of my friends houses.


----------



## Kamahi (Feb 27, 2010)

So far all of my animals have been spayed/neutered, but I don't plan on neutering Kamahi, partly because what I've seen with my neutered male, Benji(non GSD), doesn't prove that when they are neutered they will stop marking, acting aggressively to other dogs, and being the dominant dog in the household. We even took him to an obedience class when he was 2 years old, and that kind of "cured" his dog aggression.
Benji was neutered at 8 months, and we adopted him from a rescue where spaying/neutering was mandatory.

My other dog, Chelsey, was spayed at 10 weeks. She also came from a shelter where spaying/neutering was mandatory. I'm not sure the early spay really affected her, but I don't know. And she was PTS at 2 years old for unpredictable dog aggression.(not sure if that was because of the early spay or not)

Spaying/neutering, IMO, also seems to affect their energy levels. Maybe it's just because Kamahi is a puppy, I don't know, but he seems more energetic than my spayed/neutered dogs, who are all just downright lazy. :crazy:


----------



## mandelyn (Mar 23, 2007)

I took at how the dog is, and think on my intentions with the dog. Logan isn't neutered yet, we're waiting on the funds so he can have his hips xrayed too. Usually I use a low cost facility, but Logan has "special needs" with his hips being bad already and we want to see how bad. 

That being said, he's a year old, doesn't mark at all (pees like a girl still), and is pretty low energy as it is. Doesn't keep his nose to the wind, doesn't have any focus problems. Basically acts like he's been neutered all his life.

Every other male dog I've ever owned, rescued, fostered... NEEDED to be neutered. The last foster was 5 and intact. Had focus issues, would mark everything and I had to really watch him and train him on time and place. Cried any time a female was around until he found out she was spayed or not ready. He had been bred once to knowledge. He needed to be neutered, but with my agreement with the previous (now current again) owner, it wasn't my call.

The rescue before that... felt like I couldn't get him neutered fast enough. Little one year old a$$ he was. Training helped, but those balls were the main issue.

I like to have all dogs neutered by 2 years old though. That gives enough time to see if there's even breeding potential, for the temperament to develop all the way without an early neuter potentially affecting it. Yet it's early enough to avoid most health issues that can come from not neutering. 

There have been some boys who I neutered right at 6 months old because of how they acted. Some got to keep them longer. Show dogs kept them until their show career was over but they weren't quite breeding material, title or not. Takes more than a title IMO to keep the boy bits. 

Some boys can function like perfectly behaved two-brained dogs. Some have bad days. Some can't focus at all and have that nose in the air 24/7 before they're even a year old. 

If you wait, you do run the risk of problematic behavior starting, and not going away after the neuter. The surgery isn't a fix-all which is why there's so many fans of early neuter, better safe than sorry. It all depends on the individual dog. 

How was the sire of the dog? Calm, cool, collected... or a lunatic with girls on the brain... or something in the middle?


----------



## kathykngo (Apr 28, 2010)

I have a 5 year old gsd and now he is having urinary tract/ prostate problem and I have been trying to tell my dad all the vets I've seen said to get him neuter but he is resistant because he have never fixed any of our dogs. Did all of those problem like bleeding gone away when your dog was neuter? Please reply thank you.


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

kathykngo said:


> I have a 5 year old gsd and now he is having urinary tract/ prostate problem and I have been trying to tell my dad all the vets I've seen said to get him neuter but he is resistant because he have never fixed any of our dogs. Did all of those problem like bleeding gone away when your dog was neuter? Please reply thank you.


When Mac was young I got him a vasectomy. When he was about 6 or so I noticed blood dripping out of his penis. I rushed him to the vet and his prostate was enlarged, huge, about 3 or 3-1/2" x 6". The vet recommended neutering him so I scheduled an emergency neuter for the next day. It took a while for it to shrink, but it did go back to its normal walnutish size. He's 9-/12 now and I have them check it when he has his physical and so far all continues to be normal.

Last year when Slider was about 7 when he was diagnosed with an enlarged prostate during his physical. I had him neutered. I had it checked when he had his physical a few weeks ago and it was normal.


----------



## kathykngo (Apr 28, 2010)

arycrest said:


> When Mac was young I got him a vasectomy. When he was about 6 or so I noticed blood dripping out of his penis. I rushed him to the vet and his prostate was enlarged, huge, about 3 or 3-1/2" x 6". The vet recommended neutering him so I scheduled an emergency neuter for the next day. It took a while for it to shrink, but it did go back to its normal walnutish size. He's 9-/12 now and I have them check it when he has his physical and so far all continues to be normal.
> 
> Last year when Slider was about 7 when he was diagnosed with an enlarged prostate during his physical. I had him neutered. I had it checked when he had his physical a few weeks ago and it was normal.


Thank you for replying back, I will try to talk to my dad again and let him know this is not normal and it does happen sometime and that he should stop making excuses that there are other dogs around and it is making him frustrated and so that is why hammer is bleeding or that my boyfriend was playing too rough with him and made him yelp. All of those lame excuses, it is making me mad when I only want is the best for my dog.


----------



## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Jake has been going to the vet at PetSmart for his basic puppy care while I found the right vet, well through the grapevine I was referred to a vet about 45 minutes from me, she has tons of experience with the breed. Yesterday I made an appointment for her to meet Jake and I and get her opinions on him and her philosophies. The vet at PetSmart says neuter at 6 months and the other vet said wait to a year, if not a tad longer if I can. I find this whole subject mesmerizing. Why is it so hard for there to be a better timeline then that? Six months to at least a year is quite the range. I have read countless posts and find I am chasing my own tail.....can everyone weigh in? Those of you who neutered EARLY and those who WAITED?


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Jake has been going to the vet at PetSmart for his basic puppy care while I found the right vet, well through the grapevine I was referred to a vet about 45 minutes from me, she has tons of experience with the breed. Yesterday I made an appointment for her to meet Jake and I and get her opinions on him and her philosophies. The vet at PetSmart says neuter at 6 months and the other vet said wait to a year, if not a tad longer if I can. I find this whole subject mesmerizing. Why is it so hard for there to be a better timeline then that? Six months to at least a year is quite the range. *I have read countless posts and find I am chasing my own tail.....can everyone weigh in? Those of you who neutered EARLY and those who WAITED*?


 
Create a new thread and we can all voice are opinions then


----------

