# old fashioned+ working



## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

hi
if royalair lines had working temperaments they would be perfect.
the lines are too laid back for me.
all the working lines I've seen are smaller than I'm looking for.
example would be 30+" and 115#..
I ask for pertinent breeders regarding the subject..
I want flat back big dog with working drive.
I appreciate all responses but please stay in the prescribed lane..
I hope my query is clear enough.
thx


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Sorry. I suggest you do more research on the breed or look into a different breed altogether. No reputable breeder will be breeding dogs that far out of standard, because that is _way _out there. I suggest you look into breeds that are meant to be that large. German shepherds ain’t it.

Also, do more research on what you call “flat backs.” Such a thing doesn’t exist. If GSDs had “flat backs” they wouldn’t be able to move and run like they need to be able to. What you’re thinking of is over angulation, mostly found in show lines, and you’re likely also only looking at dogs that are stacked, which makes their backs seem more “sloped” as some people call it.

I cannot recommend any breeders because I don’t think a reputable breeder exists for what you’re looking for.

EDIT: Just went and looked at Royalair because I’d never seen them before and all I can say is... Wow.


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## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

thx for your reply..however I'm not asking for opinions.
I'm asking for breeders.
re: royalair, they've been around alooong time, 
ethics and standards and rep 2nd to none.the same with
her testing, breeding etc..she is great..
again. I just ask for actual lead to actual breeders.
thx for your reply


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Well, good luck. Nothing I stated was an opinion, except maybe saying that I don’t think a reputable breeder exists for what you’re looking for, which can be edited to: No reputable breeder exists for what you’re looking for. A reputable breeder DOES NOT breed out of standard like that.

You clearly aren’t someone who is willing to change their perspective, so again, good luck.


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## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

I thought I couldn't have been more clear in the original post.
all I'm asking for is leads to specific breeders.
please stay in the prescribed criteria


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Have you looked at Shilo Shepherds or King Shepherds?Those would be closer to the type of dog you're describing.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

amk said:


> thx for your reply..however I'm not asking for opinions.
> I'm asking for breeders.
> re: royalair, they've been around alooong time,
> ethics and standards and rep 2nd to none.the same with
> ...


Royalair HAD a good program. She WAS breeding dogs that were fabulous. The last several years have seen some huge missteps that have cost a hard won reputation.
Ten years ago she was light years ahead of a good many breeders in health testing and evaluating her stock, and honestly I hope the kennel gets back on track. Even five years ago, even after some of the mistakes I was saying if you want big, go to the source. 
That said, as you have already been advised, no reputable breeder is breeding that far off standard. Also flat back and old fashioned don't exist. The original German Shepherd was, if anything, smaller.


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## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

dogma13 said:


> Have you looked at Shilo Shepherds or King Shepherds?Those would be closer to the type of dog you're describing.


I don't want king or shiloh thx


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Sorry but as the others have said, you will not find any reputable breeders breeding for what you are looking for. It is not what the German Shepherd breed was, is or will be. They are a medium large size breed. That is not opinion, that is fact, even if it is not what you want to hear. Straight backed and old fashioned are term that BYB's use.


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## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

you are purity trolling me.
I know what I want.
I don't need anything but actual leads.
I'm not alone. 
if you can't help please just walk on by please


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

amk said:


> you are purity trolling me.
> I know what I want.
> I don't need anything but actual leads.
> I'm not alone.
> if you can't help please just walk on by please


We are giving you facts. GSD's are a medium sized dog. There are no breeders that are reputable that will produce what you want and no one here will recommend a breeder that is breeding that far out of standard. Large dogs do occur, but no breeder is trying to produce them.
I have been in communication with Royalair since the 90's. She found a niche market and filled it. And she used to test and title her dogs. She was very public about the fact that her dogs were oversized AND healthy. She ran a solid business, was x raying hips and elbows when so many breeders were still fighting about hips. Eyes, cardiac, DM? Check. Breeding at 18 months and only doing prelims is a no no, but she does it now. That not withstanding if you want a dog that big there is no one else who does it better because the rest are a short step from puppy mills.


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## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

that's absurd... she does penn and ofa..you just can't resist
hijacking my simple post.
this is absolute purity trolling for zero gain.
I hope you're not this righteous and disrespectful in real life
I started totally respectful and clear but that just didn't matter


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## Bella99 (Sep 4, 2017)

You do realize the breeds standard calls for german shepherds to be max 88lbs. And if you go back and look at it’s history there were no 100+ lb shepherds. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

AMK, you seem to have your answer. If you don't like the answer then you are welcome to ask on other forums, or on Facebook.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> only doing prelims





amk said:


> that's absurd... she does penn and ofa.


Please do a bit more research. Prelims means those test are done, just that they are done on young dogs to see if there are any early indications of an issue. But the dogs are still developing and can still have issues , OFA says that prelims are not 100% accurate. Those test need to be done again after the dog is 2 years old.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The size you are requesting is far over the standard. The top size for a Male is 26". While an occasional large dog will pop up in a litter, reputable working line breeders strive to breed dogs within the standard. They are supposed to be medium sized dogs. I don't think you will find what you are looking for.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

drparker151 said:


> Please do a bit more research. Prelims means those test are done, just that they are done on young dogs to see if there are any early indications of an issue. But the dogs are still developing and can still have issues , OFA says that prelims are not 100% accurate. Those test need to be done again after the dog is 2 years old.


Adding on to DrParker's post - I just recently saw a dog go OFA normal on prelims come back ED2 through the SV - same set of xrays sent to both. My boy went OFA normal and came back NZ (a3) Elbows through the SV

Standards are there for a reason. If you're looking for off standard, you might be better off asking on Facebook.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

amk said:


> that's absurd... she does penn and ofa..you just can't resist
> hijacking my simple post.
> this is absolute purity trolling for zero gain.
> I hope you're not this righteous and disrespectful in real life
> I started totally respectful and clear but that just didn't matter


The only person who's trolling seems to be you!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

amk you will very likely have more success inquiring on Facebook groups.Any members with helpful information please send amk private messages.
Bickering back and forth results in the thread being closed.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

OP, I used to be into the larger Shepherds. What I learned from research is that larger size is very hard to fix. This is one of the reasons that other breeds were added to Shiloh and King Shepherds. The creators just couldn't maintain size in them. 

I have personally met some GSDs from these oversized breeders. I even owned two Shiloh Shepherds. My Shilohs were on the larger side but not by much. All of the other ones I met were smaller than my Shepherds. IME, breeding for oversize doesn't always result in large dogs. By the same token, breeding for standard size can result in some fairly large dogs although not as big as what you are seeking.

My suggestion to you is to go and meet some of these over sized, sway backed dogs with weak temperaments and also go out and meet some nice male German Shepherds that are on the large side of the standard that have strong temperaments. You might find that you like the latter better and a puppy would be easier to find. 

Good luck in your search.


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## amk (Jun 10, 2020)

I'm 70yo. I've had GSD since I was 12yo until ~2000.
all my dogs were ~100# and all were F.
ofc all were registered with pedigrees do I don't wanna
hear anymore.

i exactly know what you say they sposed to be, period
words like sway back, weak, etc are obviously outside
my parameters. 

this is simple stuff....I look for old fashioned, with
evaluation scores ~2.. for reference sake..
like a good WL 

I'm tired of this..as the mod said, any pertinent info, please dm me
all others, save your trubs...I'm not interested atall


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Bring registered and pedigreed just means a female GSD and male GSD had puppies and your dog is purebred and has ancestors. It doesn’t mean the dog was bred by a reputable breeder or was bred within breed standards.

I believe you said you wanted a large (outside of breed standard) working line dog. Working lines tend to be smaller. Extra weight slows them down for work. 

As others have said, reputable breeders don’t try to breed outside of the breed standard. If you want to go to a non-reputable breeder to find what you want, that’s on you. But nobody here will recommend an unethical breeder. If they aren’t willing to breed to the breed standard, what other corners will they cut in regards to temperament and health. That’s how I look at it. 

If you don’t want to hear anymore or aren’t interested in opinions, you may want to visit another website. You asked a question, people gave you their opinions. I’m sorry it’s not what you want to hear. But part of being an adult is knowing how to cope with things that are different than your world view. 

Good luck in your search.

~Adversity doesn’t build character, it reveals it.


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