# Breeder VS Rescue?



## MMcCoy (May 12, 2016)

I am about to move into a bigger place, so naturally I want another dog 
I got Layla from a shelter and I have had so many issues with her (thankfully most are sorted but I still don't know if I want to go through that again). Now I'm tossing up wanting to look at a rescue or go the breeder route. My husband is pretty dead set against the breeder route for the whole "there are dogs waiting to be adopted" reasons. Ultimately it comes down to what I want (happy wife happy life). I know exactly what I want I want a black sable East German DDR Working Line. Now I know if I go through a breeder I can get exactly that, with a rescue its going to be fairly up in the air. 

So what are your thoughts and opinions on the matter? If its breeder I need some good argument points, as well as good breeders near Dallas. If its rescue, which rescue would you recommend and what questions do I need to ask, what traits do I need to look for?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

With one dog with issues, I'd go the breeder route. You could rescue, and never find what you want, or settle. Or you could end up with more issues. 
Go breeder then go rescue in a few years. Happy couple goes further than just a happy wife  compromise!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I say reputable breeder, get what you want. Life is too short to settle. You could adopt, but you would still want your dream dog. 

You did not create the shelter / rescue problem. As some on here would say it is not your circus and not your monkeys. I don't necessary agree with those statements, but others are entitled to their opinions.

I would tell your husband:

People who choose to utilize reputable breeders are happier with their dogs and it is far less common for those dogs to hit the shelters, emphasize the difference between backyard breeders and puppy mills vs reputable breeders.

Since dogs from reputable breeders are far less likely to be rehomed, buying from these breeders helps to break the shelter/rescue dog cycle by keeping dogs out of the shelters in the first place. Now I am not saying that you would dump a dog that disappointed you, but many people do.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I don't try to pursued folks in either direction but I will challenge why we want what we want in some cases... and create awareness. just as all breeders aren't created equal, neither are rescues or the dogs circumstances of how they've ended up there, and neither are the suitability, experience and dedication of the individual owners.

Granted I live in California, and both the quality and quantity of GSD in our shelters and rescues is like no place I've ever seen before... as much as I think of going the breeder route, I've decided to save it for another breed. I truly believe that I can be as picky as I'd like and with patience - I can find exactly what I want within the California rescue system and as of now, all of my gsd will continue to be rescues. Not the case in most areas and I like to be realistic in my recommendations. But.... if you don't know, it's worth checking...

I don't discount luck, but 90% of the most common health or behavioral posts here have not directly applied to any of my dogs. 

I'll never forget talking to a friend stating that I wanted my next gsd to be a black and (daaaaark, think dena & keefer  ) red long coated show line male under a year old who was good with cats and dogs... adding that I'd be willing to wait as long as it took... less than 24hrs later I met Tilden. Although softer than I prefer now... his temperament was exactly what worked for me at that time. He's also been the healthiest dog I've had. Owner surrender, raised with a nice family, given up due to divorce complications.

Just my experience.

If I could find a breeder producing baby Keystones, I just might change my mind.... I'm THAT into this dog! But as of right now, my best dog is a rescue... but I can also acknowledge that although I've had no issues, for someone unprepared for his type, things could have been a disaster, just as folks who purchase dogs who are more than they can handle.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> I know exactly what I want I want a black sable East German DDR Working Line.


Can I ask you why that's what you want? Not to give you any hard time about it all, just what made you want one? Reading? Pictures? Something on the forum? There's dogs I've wanted strictly on their appearance, so I'm not knocking that.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Maybe give yourself a time line like a year or something. In the mean time research breeders while looking at potential rescues. If you find what you are wanting in rescue go that route, if not, then at the end of established time frame go with a breeder you've chose through your research.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Have you spoken to any gsd specific rescues in your area? 

I went with an all breed rescue and it turned out great. But if your needs are super specific a gsd rescue might be able to hook you up.

Alternatively, go to a reputable breeder get the exact dog you want and donate time, money, supplies to your local rescue. There are a few near me asking for specific things that are running low. Rescues sometimes have issues that aren't solved by getting a dog from them.


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## CatChandler (Jul 25, 2016)

I picked out my first dog, Scout, from the shelter because I felt bad for him. He was nervous and irritable. He growled at my boyfriend and raided the cat box and peed on our Christmas tree. And the pole in the basement. And just about every other stationary object in the house.

Four months later, I wanted to get another dog but oh god, not from a shelter because I couldn't deal with that BS again. Scout was a lot better but far from a model citizen. I got a puppy from a breeder. Mom was a wonderful calm 4-year-old Lab, had all her health clearances, puppy was practically guaranteed to be a future therapy dog because of her fantastic genetics.

Two years later. Scout is the certified therapy dog. We are members of a K9 SAR team. My Lab puppy is a maniac. I love her, but it's true. She'll probably never be a therapy dog but we'll keep trying.

My lastest pup, Sitka, is a GSD from a rescue. I did NOT pick out the dog I felt sorry for. I picked out a calm, confident dog who liked both me and my family.

I would make a very strong effort to find what you are looking for in an adult dog from a rescue. Then, if after months and months of looking you haven't met a dog you clicked with, then you don't need to feel guilty about going to a breeder.

You can look on petfinder.com to find GSDs in rescues and shelters close to you. Be honest with them and explain the traits you are looking for. You clearly know the traits you're looking for, since you are confident you can find them in a puppy from a breeder.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I don't think anybody should feel guilty going to a breeder.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

It sounds like you need to decide if you want your dream dog now or sometime in the future. There are pros and cons to both. I chose a breeder. I knew exactly what I wanted. And to be fully honest, I went with a possible color in mind and came home with a different color. I chose the puppy that was the best fit for me and my lifestyle. And I couldn't have brought home a better puppy. If you go with a breeder, do it because of wanting the solid temperament, not for the color. You may see the perfect color puppy at the breeders, but it may be too much dog for you, or not have the temperament you want, or many other things. Be honest with the breeder about your life style and what you want to do with your dog and what you're happy with in a GSD. Let the breeder guide you by the right temperament puppy, not the color of the puppy. If you're not wiling to do it that way then I'd probably suggest going through rescue. I'd rather see you happy with the dog that lives with you.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You have no idea what you are getting from a shelter. They don't evaluate GSDs very well. You can get an excellent dog from a rescue, but it could come with baggage. You can get a near perfect dog from a breeder, but then it's up to you to train it. We see all the time people here who get puppies and have problems. I rescued for a long time, started as a foster and decided never again. But having a WL puppy hasn't been without challenges. There is no perfect dog. I suggest you insist on a puppy if it won't damage your marriage, but if it will and your marriage is more important than a dog, let your husband choose. This isn't as much about the dog as about the balance of power and compromise in your relationship. We can't choose for you.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Seems like a man would enjoy having 'Real Dog' and having a puppy to train and bond with instead of some basket case from the pound.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I like Nigel's suggestion... I have the same question as Steve, I agree with many others and despite my post, MAWL is absolutely correct, hopefully I didn't imply differently.

Nurse, I seriously laughed out loud... you're so far off it's comical.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Rescuing is wonderful if you decide to go that route again. But I don't think you should feel guilty if you decide to go to a breeder. Just make sure that you go to a reputable breeder. One reason I have chosen to buy from breeders is because I have a baby, cats, and other animals in the house. It just seems easier to introduce a puppy than a full grown dog with a lot of unknowns. Someday when my kids are older I would like to foster for a rescue to give something back to the breed, but I'm sure I'll always have a GSD or two from breeders as I really enjoy bringing up puppies.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Seems like a man would enjoy having 'Real Dog' and having a puppy to train and bond with instead of some basket case from the pound.


Even though I'm not much for rescue and I leak testosterone like a knocked over fire hydrant, I saw a rescue greyhound the other night I could have probably been talked into taking. A latent feminine side? Oh no. Hey, how bout the Bears! Lol.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

Fodder said:


> Nurse, I seriously laughed out loud... you're so far off it's comical.



Right? My guy is attached at the hip with his artificial, basket case dog.


http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy6/kdbattista1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161008_150651_01_zpsmwz9qg8f.jpg


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## CatChandler (Jul 25, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I don't think anybody should feel guilty going to a breeder.


I didn't mean that she should, I'm sorry, I was thinking of myself when I typed that. I did feel guilty buying a puppy from a breeder, because I volunteer at a shelter and the most common reasons dogs end up there are because the people -

a) moved and couldn't take him
b) didn't bother teaching him manners so now he's "out of control"
or
c) decided to start a family and don't have time for him anymore

Oh, almost forgot the best one,
d) the dog's old so now he's not fun anymore

I'm not against breeders or anything (if there were no breeders we wouldn't have GSDs!), I just wanted to say that there are some very nice dogs in shelters and rescues. Sometimes you have to look for a while before finding the right one. Breed rescues are generally a better bet than shelters (as someone pointed out), since they pick and choose the dogs that go into their group.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that there are multiple GS rescues in Dallas. They'll almost certainly have some nice dogs that have been fostered, whose personalities are well known. You might see what they have, and if it's what you want, before you decide. 

Also, check with Texas Star Rescue in Longview, TX -- they're an all-breed, but they have a deep love for GSDs and Mals, and they pull large numbers of them out of high-kill shelters Louisiana shelters. They're good people.
https://www.facebook.com/texasstarrescue/

I can tell you that from Louisiana, GSDs show up in huge numbers in shelters as adolescents: people who bought them as cute puppies get a rude awakening by the time they're 6 mo. old and chewing up everything in the home. Most of them just need house manners and basic OB.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Now you all....I knew I'd get (mildly) flamed for giving my honest opinion. But I was a vet tech before I was a human nurse, and I have worked in kennels and volunteered in animal shelters. I go read on other dog sites, believe it or not. So many people are posting for help for multiple problems with their dogs-- and what do you know? Its often rescue dogs and/or novice owners. Just my observation. Sure I feel sorry for shelter dogs and wish them well. Its just that I have only one dog, want only one dog, and by golly its a GSD. I raised her myself bred from working lines. There are multiple reasons to buy a pup from a good breeder. You can evaluate the parents mentally and physically, study their genetic background and health history and have someone to advise you who is knowledgeable of the dogs.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

"So many people are posting for help for multiple problems with their dogs-- and what do you know? Its often rescue dogs and/or novice owners. "


A) How many shelter dogs/byb dogs exist vs well bred dogs?

B) Is someone who puts the time into researching pedigrees and breeders likely to ask random folks on the internet for help or go to a trainer?

I think there are more reasons that shelter dogs seem to have more problems than being "basket cases."


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Why is this a question? At the end of the day a good dog is a good dog. Since everyone has a different idea of what good is no one else can help you. 
Some of the best dogs I have ever had were dogs I was adamantly opposed to having. 
My advice is stop looking and the right dog will find you.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Why is this a question? At the end of the day a good dog is a good dog. Since everyone has a different idea of what good is no one else can help you.
> Some of the best dogs I have ever had were dogs I was adamantly opposed to having.
> My advice is stop looking and the right dog will find you.


If she doesn't look, how will she find a dog? 

If I wanted another dog and wasn't sure, I would start looking for breeders to see what is out there and at the same time foster for a rescue group. If I didn't find a dog I liked after six months of fostering, I would get a dog from a breeder.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

There are pros and cons to getting a puppy/dog from either a breeder or a rescue. My only advice if someone goes with a breeder is to make sure they are a _good_ breeder, and not just someone who thinks that all you need to know is "boy dog + girl dog = puppies to sell". 

Personally, I'll always have rescues, but I also want to own at least one well-bred dog in my lifetime.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

..._most_ of Layla's issues are sorted. Instead of looking at it from a position of not wanting to have to go thru that again, think, is it the right time for a second dog? Regardless of where it comes from... a puppy is going to be very impressionable to any of Layla's unresolved issues. Am I also correct that she's under a year?

New/larger places and the opportunities they provide can be exciting, but allow your current girl to mature and be the dog you want her to be. Going back to Nigel's post... plenty of time to see what shows up at the rescue while researching possible breeders.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Here is my 2c.

On my 4th GSD now. 2 have been rescues. Of those 1 came from a kill shelter and I knew absolutely nothing about him or even GSDs for that matter when I adopted. Knowing what I know now I can look back at him and say I am reasonably sure he was a working line dog based on his build and his color. He was a great dog, with no major issues. He could have been a way greater dog if I had had half a clue but some of how great a dog I think he was is based on how clueless I was and how well he did anyway despite that.

2nd rescue was from an all breed rescue and was being fostered. I feel most if not all lf what we were told by the woman who ran the rescue was not true. He did have some sort of major problems but we were able to correct them and he was a once in a lifetime dog. I miss him every day.

My other 2, the 2 I still have now, both came from breeders. No major issues with either of them. Both amazing dogs. 

I would happily go either way again, adopt or buy from a good breeder. I sort of try to even it out, if I buy one, I rescue one. Not because I think buying a dog from a good breeder kills one in a shelter, but I do know dogs are out there desperately needing homes and if I can help one then I want to.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> If she doesn't look, how will she find a dog?


Lol. Ask Llombardo.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have 3 rescues(1 from Craigslist on the way to the shelter, one from the shelter, and one found on the side of the road)

The first one(from CL) gave me a run for my money. She was only 12 weeks but my first pure GSD. Nothing she did was anything more then energetic puppy stuff. Othef then having hip dysplasia, wonderful dog with a great temperament. I decided that I wanted another GSD, so I started talking to a breeder, then a tripod GSD popped up at the shelter, I went to see him but we didn't click, I can't explain it(he later found a good home), but while at the dog event they told me another GSD was at the shelter. So I drove to the shelter and found Midnite. I did not like the look of him at the time, but his temperament was out of this world. It took a while to get him out of the shelter(red tape--like they didn't even know he was on the floor and he was at the shelter for at least a couple months). He was leash reactive, but we got past that with intense training. After awhile I briefly spoke to the breeder again(checking on a breeding for way in the future) and I'm not kidding within a month I found my youngest on the side of the road. He has a little bit more of an edge to him, but he is a good dog(my shadow--super attached).

So needless to say i think you can find whatever you looking for either way. I understand how the right dog can find you when your not looking. I figure as long as I do not speak to the breeder, another GSD will not pop up....just kidding. I've had really good luck with rescues, but I do put a lot of trainjng into them in the door. I look at them as a blank slate, I don't know nothing about them, so I train them to be how I want them to be. That has worked out unbelievably well.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Lol. Ask Llombardo.


It's funny you said that. I posted and said I can completely understand that. It has happened more then once:smile2:

I think that I drove down the street I found Apollo on, one other time in several years. With my oldest golden I took a route I never took before or after and came across him. I wasn't looking for Midnite, but ended up with him. With my oldest I wasn't looking for a dog period and she looked at me like she could see through my soul. Robyn, I decided that a GSD would be a good idea, I seen her a couple weeks prior on CL, never thought she would be still available. I seen Batman on the rescue site and said oh he looks like a cool dog, when I get there they had decided that Batman was my foster(I never said anything to them)

Yep they all have a story--right place right time--whatever, they ended up with me in some odd ways.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Lol. Ask Llombardo.



I know, some people can't help but find dogs wherever they go


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I know, some people can't help but find dogs wherever they go


The last time I found a dog was about 12 years ago. There were two purebred Airedales running around. I am sure they just got out of somebody's yard. I never saw them again.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

regardless of what you decide...

Argument points: getting what you want, stacking cards in your favor, supporting responsible breeding programs & practices which is still supporting the breed.

Breeders in Dallas: do a search on the board, keeping in mind that you may have to travel well outside of Dallas to find what you want... I feel like requests for Texas breeders pop up every month on this board. And the bigger question - what are you looking for in a dog outside of coat color? Help us to help you.

You'd research reputable rescues just like you'd research a breeder.... look up reviews, check their Facebook pages to see what past adopters are saying.... not just about their dogs but the ease of working with the organization, honesty, breed knowledge, procedures, suppprt...

What traits to look for - the same traits you'd like to see in any adult dog. Not just the standard traits that other people say (after all, who says they want a bad temperament or unhealthy dog??)..... think about what's important to you? Along with the normal suggestions, in my first dog I wanted one who was social, highly adaptable, forgiving, bonded, protective. In my next one I didn't focus on any of that.... I wanted a more mellow type.... gentle, tolerant, easy going. more recently I wanted a higher energy, confident dog that was dog neutral, food motivated, biddable...


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Are you seriously thinking of doing any kind of advanced training or dog sports with the new dog? If you are, I would no doubt get a puppy from a good breeder. If you just want the dog for a good pet I would get a rescue. Either way a rescue or a dog from a breeder may have problems that will be difficult to deal with so you may want to think awhile before making any decision.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Both my dogs were rescues, but that was because I did not feel I had the energy or stamina to deal with a puppy, not because I had anything against going to a breeder. Both of my experiences were very positive, I ended up with two great dogs, one a yellow Lab (who I had put to sleep at almost 14 because of failing health) and Newlie, my current German Shepherd. 

Have you spent any time with working line dogs? If you haven't, would that help you make up your mind? I think that regardless of which way you go, do your research and ask plenty of questions and be honest with yourself about what you want. You and your husband are the only ones who can make this decision.


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## MissChloe (Oct 31, 2016)

MMcCoy said:


> I am about to move into a bigger place, so naturally I want another dog
> I got Layla from a shelter and I have had so many issues with her (thankfully most are sorted but I still don't know if I want to go through that again). Now I'm tossing up wanting to look at a rescue or go the breeder route. My husband is pretty dead set against the breeder route for the whole "there are dogs waiting to be adopted" reasons. Ultimately it comes down to what I want (happy wife happy life). I know exactly what I want I want a black sable East German DDR Working Line. Now I know if I go through a breeder I can get exactly that, with a rescue its going to be fairly up in the air.
> 
> So what are your thoughts and opinions on the matter? If its breeder I need some good argument points, as well as good breeders near Dallas. If its rescue, which rescue would you recommend and what questions do I need to ask, what traits do I need to look for?


I went through a breeder for my first dog (hound). He was simply awesome in every way possible. Temperament, socialization, intelligence, training - a lovely dog all around. When you go with a good breeder, I think the odds are heavily in your favour that your puppy will hit all the breed landmarks as he/she matures. Especially if you research & select the breeder carefully and let them chose the right puppy for you. You also have to be patient because this means you might not get a puppy from the litter you're waiting on.

I adopted my next two dogs from the shelter. One slid into my life like she'd always been there. We were a great fit. My current dog required a lot of work, training, patience, and time. Thankfully, he's great now but for the first three weeks I thought I'd made a BIG mistake. Took a full year for him to really settle down.

If you go the shelter route, you have to be able to stay objective. Otherwise you might end up with the wrong dog for you. GSD rescue groups might be the better option. Their dogs will be in foster homes so you'd get a more accurate read on behaviour & temperament. Some may have been pulled from shelters, some as owner surrenders so some research there will be needed too.

Like everyone else has been saying, there's pros and cons to both.


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

llombardo said:


> Yep they all have a story--right place right time--whatever, they ended up with me in some odd ways.


That made me laugh!! I never wanted a GSD but over the last twenty years, I have had 3 'unplanned' shepherds. One was from an ad in a local newspaper, one was from a breeder (my family sourced that one!) and my current lovely girl is a rescue. 

I think it all comes down to what you want the dog for. My first two girls were great family dogs which was just as well as they were somewhat raised around babies toddlers etc and we were very lucky that it worked for us. My rescue girl, who we have only had for six weeks, is 7 months old. She is a very smart girl. Luckily for us the original owner didn't realise what a gem he had!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bud was a foster. Breeder repo.

Shadow was found.

Some day when I have time I will explain about Dog, Wrong Dog, Other Dog, Big Dog and Little Dog. All found except Little Dog. Then there was Ribs and Caesar. And Yeller, Satan, Duke and Lucky. 

While hitching through California I got stuck in Oceanside. Couldn't get a ride to save my life. I walked over to get a drink and came back to the road. I heard this whimpering and started looking around. After 10 minutes or so I literally trip over this tiny pup covered in blood hidden in the grass. With the biggest bluest eyes. The look she gave me clearly said took you long enough. I scooped her up and rushed back to the store to clean her up. The clerk grinned and said do you one better. See that van its a mobile vet van. I got a ride all the way to the border 5 minutes after I hit the road again. Throw in a soft hearted customs guy and my California pup became a Canadian. Freeway my Great Dane.

Dogs find the people that need them.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

In the end, the color doesn't matter; you live with the dog, not its color. No matter how carefully you chose your breeder, it is not a guarantee that you won't encounter problems.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the OP said " I know exactly what I want I want a black sable East German DDR Working Line. Now I know if I go through a breeder I can get exactly that"

That is the worst way to choose a dog .  

I wouldn't buy a winter coat because it had a favourite or flattering colour . 
There are so many other things which are far more important.

There are a lot of "DDR" dogs bred just for this desirable colour --- and that is all --- the look , the colour --- 

be more demanding .


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> The last time I found a dog was about 12 years ago. There were two purebred Airedales running around. I am sure they just got out of somebody's yard. I never saw them again.


The only loose dogs I've seen are ones that wandered away from home and were out looking for trouble to get into. Not ever one that didn't have a collar or tags and that was adoptable. It must depend on where you live.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> The only loose dogs I've seen are ones that wandered away from home and were out looking for trouble to get into. Not ever one that didn't have a collar or tags and that was adoptable. It must depend on where you live.


Yes, loose dogs who belong to somebody, no strays here for years.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Yes, loose dogs who belong to somebody, no strays here for years.


The only way you get a true stray is if someone intentionally dumps a dog or they haven't taken enough precautions for their lost dogs to be located. It doesn't take much to chip and tag a dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> The only loose dogs I've seen are ones that wandered away from home and were out looking for trouble to get into. Not ever one that didn't have a collar or tags and that was adoptable. It must depend on where you live.


I would have to say this is correct. You can drive into the City of Chicago and come home with a truck full. They are tied to lamp posts, left behind in yards when owners move, running the streets, etc. They very rarely have tags and microchips aren't registered. If the microchip does go back to the owner about 50% relinquish the dog right on the phone. Look at the beagle I recently had(there were several beagles after him too) I drove an hour to one of the Chicago police precincts to pick him up and he was never claimed. I still can't believe he wasn't claimed, wonderful dog. The Chicago Police hold on to the dogs at a couple locations as long as they can before they go to the pound. They would prefer to get dogs in fosters while actively looking for the owners. When I was younger I used to bring the strays to the same precinct I picked the beagle up at. The police knew me by name and the whole force probably ended up with dogs, that's how many I brought in bsck then. So now if I can I try to help them because they always helped me out.

Where I live now, it's rare to find any dogs. If you do, it's mixed--some have collars, some are claimed and some aren't. I think my neighbor with the lab has paid more fines then anyone for a loose dog. I think they finally relinquished him, haven't seen or heard him in a while. Beautiful pup too.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

llombardo said:


> Where I live now, it's rare to find any dogs. If you do, it's mixed--some have collars, some are claimed and some aren't. I think my neighbor with the lab has paid more fines then anyone for a loose dog. I think they finally relinquished him, haven't seen or heard him in a while. Beautiful pup too.



I wish I could say that. Where I live it's common. I live off one of the roads where the road is literally considered a dumping area by the local shelter. You wouldn't believe the breeds I've seen there. Border collies, rough collies, boston terriers, Chihuahuas, rotties, Rhodesian ridgebacks, and mixes. I've picked up the ones I could and rehomed them.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deb said:


> I wish I could say that. Where I live it's common. I live off one of the roads where the road is literally considered a dumping area by the local shelter. You wouldn't believe the breeds I've seen there. Border collies, rough collies, boston terriers, Chihuahuas, rotties, Rhodesian ridgebacks, and mixes. I've picked up the ones I could and rehomed them.


Wow, where is this? Maybe the place to get a nice unaltered dog? In the NW I never find a dog. No strays here, just neutered and spayed dogs and under-socialized Chihuahuas and Pits and other, often troubled,mixes from NM and CA. Rescues aka hoarders galore here. And they sell fast, no clue where they are all going.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> Wow, where is this? Maybe the place to get a nice unaltered dog? In the NW I never find a dog. No strays here, just neutered and spayed dogs and under-socialized Chihuahuas and Pits and other, often troubled,mixes from NM and CA. Rescues aka hoarders galore here. And they sell fast, no clue where they are all going.



Rural Louisiana.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

for me i want a do to work with. some rescues can sometimes find you a dog that will do some kinds of work but only breeder can give me exactly what i want. Although I am not opposed to rescues and love my little mix girl just as much a my working dog.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I'm in Louisiana too, and Deb is absolutely right. 

The small dog room at the shelter in a mid-size LA city will nearly always be full of cute PB-looking dogs - often in scraggly condition but who clean up beautifully. I've seen tons of Dachshunds (regular, mini, long-hair, dappled -- take your pick!), terriers of all flavors (Yorkies, JRTs, Scotties, etc.), Poms, Chis, Poodles, Shih Tzus, Shelties, and more. They even had a pair of Chinese Cresteds once when I was there. Seriously. 

On the large dog side, I've seen Great Pyranese, lots of Danes, Field Labradors (even a few that were already duck trained!), Goldens, Weimeraners, Huskies, Malamutes, St. Bernards, Akitas, and so much more. Dobermans and Rotties are very common. Mals are increasingly common, and even Dutchies are appearing. 

PB dogs are a dime a dozen when it seems like nearly everyone with a PB dog believes they ought to make more of them to sell for anything they can get. Very few people speuter dogs, and in a poor state, breeding PB dogs without any vetting is easy income. PB dogs (of all breeds) are not expensive here in the newspaper, and many litters go unsold. People show up with unsold litters at the shelter smiling like they're giving the shelter something special -- except that shelter just euthanized 20 other puppies that morning because they're out of space!

The weirdest combo I ever pulled was a big, sable female GSD who had a Shih Tzu friend. They were a bonded pair whose owner had died. I showed up planning to pull one dog, but when I saw the little one nestled under the big one for comfort in the loud shelter, I wasn't going to separate them and left with both. Luckily the foster parents were good sports about it.

The last year that I volunteered regularly at our local shelter, I kept a spreadsheet tracking the GSDs -- over 100 of them in just one mid-sized city shelter. The surrounding rural parish shelters had at least that many more.

We get GSD puppies out of shelters pretty often (12-16 weeks -- unsold litters, probably). There's often some story about someone "finding them" or "rescuing them" from a family member not taking care of them -- 9 times out of 10 once the shelter staff start asking questions, it's the person who bred them who's right there lying. I just got a request tonight to take 2!


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## MissChloe (Oct 31, 2016)

I don't know how to describe the sadness I feel reading that, *Magwart*.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

There are at least 10 GSD rescues in California... just today I read in an e mail chain from one of the so cal rescues, that this weekend put their adoption number for 2016 at 815! (14 this week, 61 in November). Just, 1 out of 10 rescues. Blows my mind.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Fodder said:


> There are at least 10 GSD rescues in California... just today I read in an e mail chain from one of the so cal rescues, that this weekend put their adoption number for 2016 at 815! (14 this week, 61 in November). Just, 1 out of 10 rescues. Blows my mind.


If I remember correctly they don't want to adopt out of state. I am in OR, my 4 ft fence is not high enough and I have an intact female. How picky can you get if you adopt out altered dogs? I am slowly starting to looking for a young intact male GSD or Collie or one that has been neutered after 14 months. Not interested in breeding at all.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^I will PM you...


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## karladupler (Mar 22, 2016)

East German DDR Working Line VS a rescue? I think the difference here is HUGE. You want a regular pet go to a rescue! You want a intense dog maybe go to IPO of do a sport so the working dog will have an outlet for all the energy etc. Get a puppy from a good breeder!  I would say...think more about your lifestyle and the time that you can give to the dog. 

I just think a working dog requires more time in a long run than a rescue, yeah maybe the rescue will come with behavior problems but if you train everyday with that dog...long run we will be the best dog ever.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Seems like a man would enjoy having 'Real Dog' and having a puppy to train and bond with instead of some basket case from the pound.


This post is hilarious. I don't think you intended it to be. It goes hand in hand with the sexist nonsense I get from so many men: The surprise and approval I get, as a woman who has a large GSD by her side. Because my GSD is a "real" dog and I'm automatically a cool chick for having her instead of a bichon or something. It's silly.

OP, in terms of the question, I've heard a lot and been on the receiving end of a lot of vitriol for choosing to buy a dog. It got to the point that I went out of my way not to support rescue efforts, like actively researched other charities for donations, because I wasn't going to give my hard earned money to people who thought I was the devil. I now support one group that I trust; they don't see breeders or breeding as the enemy or this great wrong, and they want to be part of a community of dog lovers that includes breeders and people who buy puppies from them. The conclusion I've come to is that choosing a good dog from a reputable rescue, and choosing a good dog from a reputable breeder, are both morally neutral. Doing your homework on the source and the breed (if applicable), thinking carefully about what kind of dog will work best for you, and making a commitment to the dog you get is the moral imperative, not whether the dog is bred or rescued.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nigel said:


> Maybe give yourself a time line like a year or something. In the mean time research breeders while looking at potential rescues. If you find what you are wanting in rescue go that route, if not, then at the end of established time frame go with a breeder you've chose through your research.


But why should a rescue be the default and the OP only goes through a breeder if she doesn't find something suitable in rescue? A breeder as your first choice of source is totally legitimate.



Fodder said:


> Granted I live in California, and both the quality and quantity of GSD in our shelters and rescues is like no place I've ever seen before... as much as I think of going the breeder route, I've decided to save it for another breed. I truly believe that I can be as picky as I'd like and with patience - I can find exactly what I want within the California rescue system and as of now, all of my gsd will continue to be rescues. Not the case in most areas and I like to be realistic in my recommendations. But.... if you don't know, it's worth checking...


It's so different here. There are some breed specific rescues for GSDs, as well as shepherds that come through all-breed rescues. But given the list that my husband and I compiled when we said, "Okay so we want to go ahead and get a dog - let's think about what we actually need or want from this dog," it became evident in about three seconds that we were talking about an 8 week old puppy from a breeder and that was the only thing we were talking about. I did circle back and check PetFinder, and what I wanted simply did not exist in rescue here. You're a serious anomaly in my area if you have an intact dog, so overall people are likely not letting oops litters happen, which is good for dogs. The puppies that do come into rescue are usually transports from other parts of the country. Actually, a fair number of the shepherds in rescue around here were transports. But if I was waiting for exactly the dog I have - which was exactly the dog I wanted - I'd still be waiting three years later if rescue was the only option I was willing or able to consider.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Fodder said:


> There are at least 10 GSD rescues in California... just today I read in an e mail chain from one of the so cal rescues, that this weekend put their adoption number for 2016 at 815! (14 this week, 61 in November). Just, 1 out of 10 rescues. Blows my mind.


The good news about so many rescue groups is that fewer German shepherds spend much time in a shelter, they are pulled right away unless they are very old. The pits aren't. Most of the large dogs in my area shelters are pits or pit mixes. I was looking for GSDs and found only seniors, which is the saddest thing.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> If I remember correctly they don't want to adopt out of state. I am in OR, my 4 ft fence is not high enough and I have an intact female. How picky can you get if you adopt out altered dogs? I am slowly starting to looking for a young intact male GSD or Collie or one that has been neutered after 14 months. Not interested in breeding at all.


Contact breeders and see if they have any returned dogs to rehome.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

WateryTart said:


> But why should a rescue be the default and the OP only goes through a breeder if she doesn't find something suitable in rescue? A breeder as your first choice of source is totally legitimate.


Absolutely, but that doesn't sound like the case for the op. They themselves are struggling with the decision, add in a spouse who has strong feelings about rescue and it makes sense to give the that option a chance. This is what I take from the first post in this thread.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I do hope the OP comes back and tells us which way they went and about their new dog.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I am curious if OP would be in the market for a second dog if she had gotten a black sable East German DDR Working Line in the first place.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

You are the only one who can make an argument for what you want. We can't help you, because we don't know what you want and it sounds like you don't either. Don't get hung up on the 'look' of the dog. Nothing wrong with getting what you want (black sable) IF the dog meets all the important criteria. We don't need answers to these questions, but you need to think about them. Why do you want a black sable East German DDR working line? What are your plans for the dog? If you honestly want a dog to work and are willing/able to put the time into the dog, I think you should find a reputable breeder to match you with the right pup - even if it isn't black sable.

For some members, a reputable breeder is the only way to go. They are looking for very specific things in a dog. A reputable breeder is going to help them with that. There are some amazing breeders on this board and members can give recommendations as well.

My first GSD was a 2 year old from the SPCA. She lived for 14.5 years. She was not evaluated at all by the shelter. She walked into my house, met my kids, never had a single accident and destroyed nothing. Her health was good, until her last year. She was DA, but easily managed. I adopted my current two dogs sight unseen. I met them, when they arrived on transport. Yes! Yes, I am crazy like that.

I need to put this out there, because I feel like some of you don't understand. You have the concept of "Not all breeders are reputable." We don't support BYB, or puppy mills. We recognize that reputable breeders go above and beyond to produce the pups with the best health and temperament. We all agree with this, right?

Why then, do we lump all shelters and rescues together? There are good and bad there too. They are not all the same. Some shelters actually do an excellent job evaluating their dogs. My Shelby, is everything the shelter told me she was. I have no regrets whatsoever with either of my current dogs.

Does my Shelby look like one of Carmen's dogs? Hahahahaha! Uh, no. She kinda looks like a llama. She is super long, tall, has ears that still go every whichaway, and has a really big backside. But see, I'm not the person who needs a dog to work or perform any specific task. Shelby has a wonderful temperament. She is a very good girl, wonderful company, always ready to play, or just be a snuggle buddy on the couch. She is the dog that is perfect for me. OP, I hope you find the dog that is perfect for you.

All the best!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

"Seems like a man would enjoy having 'Real Dog' and having a puppy to train and bond with instead of some basket case from the pound."

Watery tart>This post is hilarious. I don't think you intended it to be. It goes hand in hand with the sexist nonsense I get from so many men: The surprise and approval I get, as a woman who has a large GSD by her side. Because my GSD is a "real" dog and I'm automatically a cool chick for having her instead of a bichon or something. It's silly.

Yes I did mean it to be silly. But if the OP was smart she could use this sexist nonsense to get what she really wants, a GSD.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Nurse Bishop, I can assure that my shelter dogs are 'real dogs' and not basket cases. I have pulled many GSDs from shelter for rescue. Yep they were GSDs and they were dogs. No doubt some shelter dogs have issues, but as I previously stated, that is lumping all shelter/rescue dogs together. That is just as unfair as lumping all breeders together.

As for what the OP wants, only she can decide that.


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## LJak007 (Aug 22, 2016)

If I got lucky enough to find a rescue I would totally do it and wait for my perfect breeder puppy when I have recovered from this awful and very costly year with the dogs I have lost. Three in one year, my Standard Poodle from what we can only surmise as a heart attack just before his 11th birthday, thank the gods it was quick and at home, I didn't even have a chance to get him to the vet, as we went to load him in the car he died in my arms, my olde english bulldog from renal failure and Ghost my GSD, from the reaction he had to sudden grand mal seizures, it was terrifying and heartbreaking for us and him, I am not sure I will ever get over my sweet Ghost. 
I have considered rescue now and my husband is the one that is wary of it. I have rescued some great dogs and some with massive problems, it's about 50/50. Some shelters give you the real truth and some candy coat all the crap and hope that you deal with it. Here in Utah there doesn't seem to be more than one or two GSD dedicated rescues and the dogs in them have been on their sites forever, not sure if they are not updated and still in use or if these dogs are truly not adoptable. I have checked the shelters and animal control places here for the last 4-6 weeks, there have been a GSD here and there and I have inquired about a couple of them with no response. GSD's really don't end up at shelters here which is great. Our shelters seems to be filled with pit bulls and pit mixes and little dogs and cats, while I love all animals I have no desire for any of those. It would be nice if some rescues would go across state lines, there are some rescue prospects I would travel for but I get it, the poor doggies have already been rejected for some reason or another and it's pretty hard on them and if they aren't the right fit then it's the possibility of more rejection. My standard poodles I got from the shelter here (at the same time) were a total mess mentally, both of them, it was awful but my two rotties I got at a little shelter in Chicago were the two of the best dogs in the world.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LJak007 said:


> If I got lucky enough to find a rescue I would totally do it and wait for my perfect breeder puppy when I have recovered from this awful and very costly year with the dogs I have lost. Three in one year, my Standard Poodle from what we can only surmise as a heart attack just before his 11th birthday, thank the gods it was quick and at home, I didn't even have a chance to get him to the vet, as we went to load him in the car he died in my arms, my olde english bulldog from renal failure and Ghost my GSD, from the reaction he had to sudden grand mal seizures, it was terrifying and heartbreaking for us and him, I am not sure I will ever get over my sweet Ghost.
> I have considered rescue now and my husband is the one that is wary of it. I have rescued some great dogs and some with massive problems, it's about 50/50. Some shelters give you the real truth and some candy coat all the crap and hope that you deal with it. Here in Utah there doesn't seem to be more than one or two GSD dedicated rescues and the dogs in them have been on their sites forever, not sure if they are not updated and still in use or if these dogs are truly not adoptable. I have checked the shelters and animal control places here for the last 4-6 weeks, there have been a GSD here and there and I have inquired about a couple of them with no response. GSD's really don't end up at shelters here which is great. Our shelters seems to be filled with pit bulls and pit mixes and little dogs and cats, while I love all animals I have no desire for any of those. It would be nice if some rescues would go across state lines, there are some rescue prospects I would travel for but I get it, the poor doggies have already been rejected for some reason or another and it's pretty hard on them and if they aren't the right fit then it's the possibility of more rejection. My standard poodles I got from the shelter here (at the same time) were a total mess mentally, both of them, it was awful but my two rotties I got at a little shelter in Chicago were the two of the best dogs in the world.


I wouldn't necessarily chalk up a dog sitting in rescue, I have seen years, as unadoptable. Some rescues have earned the title of glorified hoarders rarely adopting out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

People get stuck in this "ddr" "East german" mode. When you look at pedigrees, very few dogs are strictly "east" "ddr" "west" "czech". they've been mixing these lines for decades. 

now....if I were looking for a pet, I'd be all over this guy
Here you go.....

https://www.facebook.com/southeastg...785947732627/1394850633859479/?type=3&theater


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

Before I got Safari...my breeder dream dog I had puppy fever. I am both very pro shelter and pro responsible breeder. I had puppy fever but my dream puppy was still a year out so I fostered 3 different litters of puppies through our local SPCA. It was rewarding and I loved them all but knew I would not be keeping any of them. It got me over my puppy fever!!!!! I was so over puppies I was not sure if I had enough sleep left in me for Safari!!!...lol


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