# Difference between Diamond Lamb&Rice and 4Health Lamb&Rice?



## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I have been feeding my dogs Purina One Lamb and Rice, because they have sensitive stomachs and have solid poops with this food. Today I went to Tractor Supply with the intention of finding them a dog food that was affordable to us, and healthier for them. I had a very difficult time choosing between 4Health Lamb and Rice, and Diamond Lamb and Rice. The ingredients in both were almost identical. The Diamond was a couple bucks cheaper. Now I am wondering if there is a difference because the only thing I noticed was that the first ingredient in 4Health is Lamb, and then Lamb meal. Diamond has Lamb Meal as the first ingredient. Did I miss something or are they just about the same?


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

made by the same people is my understanding. I would personally go with the 4Health.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Diamond Lamb and Rice:
Lamb meal, ground rice, cracked pearled barley, millet, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, rice bran, dried plain beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, fish meal, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

4Health Lamb and Rice:

Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, cracked pearled barley, ground rice, millet, egg product, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp, natural flavor, flaxseed, fish meal, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, taurine, glucosamine hydrochloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, yucca schidigera extract, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


4Health is 21% protein, 12% fat
Diamond is 23% protein, 14% fat.

As ClearCreek said, they are made by the same company but they're obviously not exactly the same. I don't feed Diamond products anymore, but if I did and had to choose between the two, I'd probably go with the Diamond over the 4Health because of the higher protein content.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks for posting the ingredients Emoore. In the store I had both packages side by side but felt a bit frazzled. They aren't exact but they are similar. I mistakingly thought that 4Health had more protein, so thanks for pointing that out.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I go with the 4health over the regular Diamond, I find the Diamond Naturals to be more comparable to 4health but higher in cost. I like that the grains in 4health are of a higher whole grain quality than those used in the diamond. Whole grain brown rice and oatmeal vs ground rice and cracked pearled barley.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Lin, I should have specified that I bought the Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice. Both Diamond and 4Health have that cracked pearled barley. Do you know what Millet is though? They both have it in there and I have no idea what that is.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Millet is another grain. They both have cracked pearled barley, but the place in the ingredient list is very different. Ingredients are listed in order of largest to smallest amounts. 

A meat meal means the water is already rendered out. Lamb with the water content still in it is going to be much smaller percentage after the water is removed, so you can pretty much ignore the regular lamb in the 4health as its not going to be in the top 3. That leaves whole grain rice vs ground rice as the second highest ingredient, and oatmeal vs cracked pearled barley as the third highest ingredient.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Funny that all these products come from the same manufacturer....
BUT...I think the Costco Brand dog food is better than both Diamond & 4Health.
Perhaps you could even look into that food.....and save even a couple more dollars???
FWIW.....perhaps, check the ingredient list.....I don't have a bag handy...or I would.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Kirkland Ingredients: Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, rice bran, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and vitamin E), dried beet pulp, potatoes, fish meal, flaxseed, natural flavor, millet, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, taurine, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Very comparable. However I like 4Health a little better if it was ingredients alone. Since Kirkland is cheaper though I'd go with it over Diamond and 4Health if I had access.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Not sure it matters, but in the Kirklands that sure looks like a high amount of starch bcs of all the rice and then it also has potatoes. 

I just found out that the manufacturer of Diamond and I believe that they also make 4Health had a huge recall a few years ago, something about a toxin causing liver failure in dogs and many dogs died. Scary.


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## OzzyGSD (Nov 20, 2010)

Another good food that has a pretty good price tag is Whole Earth Farms by Merrick. I have had Ozzy on it for a month and he has been doing really well with it. You can get 35 lbs at Petco for $40. Here are the ingredients:

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (Not Less Than) 24.0% Crude Fat (Not Less Than) 12.0% Crude Fiber (Not More Than) 3.0% Moisture (Not More Than) 11.0% Calorie Content: 3495 kcal/kg (calculated) –One pound provides 1587 kcal of metabolizable energy (calculated). One cup (100 grams) provides 352 calories (Caloric content calculated using Modified Atwater Method) 

Ingredients: Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Oat Meal, Pearled Barley, Ground Rice,Ground Millet, Ground Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E) Duck, Buffalo, White Fish, Natural Chicken Liver Flavor, Salmon Oil (a natural source of Omega-3, Docosahexaenoic Acid-DHA)*, Organic Alfalfa Sun-cured ground, Yeast Culture, Tomato Pomace Dried , Dried Egg,Organic Sunflower Seed Ground, Salt, Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Lysine, Blueberry Dried, Cranberry Dried, Yucca Schidigera Extract,Inulin (from Chicory Root), Rosemary, Sage, Thyme, Cinnamon, Marigold Dried, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactobacillus casei,Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Complex, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Niacin, Lecithin, Riboflavin, Supplement, Biotin, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Amino Acid Complex, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I believe it all boils down to the "best" economic value for the quality of product.
There are MANY better food choices on the market today in comparison to any of the previous listed.
But in the "price range" of $22-$29 per 40lb bag & the accessibility....very few will have better quality ingredients.
JMO


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I just found out that the manufacturer of Diamond and I believe that they also make 4Health had a huge recall a few years ago, something about a toxin causing liver failure in dogs and many dogs died. Scary.


One of the reasons a lot of people have switched away from it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's my view on recalls. Many animal food companies had problems during that time. Many different companies were responsible for killing animals due to tainted products. They fixed the problem.

Peter Pan Peanut Butter recalled all their peanut butter a couple of years ago. They fixed the problem and put it back on the market. It sits on top of my microwave.

If we stop buying from every company that ever had a recall, we would have nothing to eat and nothing to drive.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jax08 said:


> Here's my view on recalls. Many animal food companies had problems during that time. Many different companies were responsible for killing animals due to tainted products. They fixed the problem.
> 
> Peter Pan Peanut Butter recalled all their peanut butter a couple of years ago. They fixed the problem and put it back on the market. It sits on top of my microwave.
> 
> If we stop buying from every company that ever had a recall, we would have nothing to eat and nothing to drive.


Very true. I certainly don't judge people who choose to feed Diamond. I switched off of it because my dogs were getting diarrhea every time I got a new bag-- the batch consistency was too far off.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We switched Sierra from Purina One to 4Health. The first bag went fine. At the second bag, she had gas so bad it would drive you from the room so we switched her back to Purina One. I think it's really important to feed what works for the dog. Yes, you want a higher quality food but if your dog is doing well on a medium grade food then keep with it.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

The only value brand that performs well in my opinion is Pro Pac


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

sable123 said:


> The only value brand that performs well in my opinion is Pro Pac


Do you feed your dogs Pro Pac? I was looking at that food also at Tractor Supply. If you do feed it, do your dogs get gas, or diarrhea/soft poops? How long have you been using it? 

Any Pro Pac feeders or who have fed this in the past please tell me your opinion about this food.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Do you feed your dogs Pro Pac? I was looking at that food also at Tractor Supply. If you do feed it, do your dogs get gas, or diarrhea/soft poops? How long have you been using it?
> 
> Any Pro Pac feeders or who have fed this in the past please tell me your opinion about this food.


I don't belive you're going to find Pro Pac at TSC, might check some other feed stores. I wasn't able to find it at all here in North TX but if you go to their website you can find if there are places near you that sell it.

Right now I'm feeding Precise, which is about a buck a pound.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Emoore said:


> I don't belive you're going to find Pro Pac at TSC, might check some other feed stores. I wasn't able to find it at all here in North TX but if you go to their website you can find if there are places near you that sell it.
> 
> Right now I'm feeding Precise, which is about a buck a pound.


They have Pro Pac at the Tractor Supply near my house. I was just looking at it yesterday. They had a stack of $2 off per bag coupons next to it to. Do you think that food is better than Diamond?


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## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

I had a thread on a similar topic a couple of weeks ago but it involved the puppy food of each brand which IMO, is the same food. Some of the other foods are very similar between the brands but there is another one that looks to be the same food and thats the adult 60+ of both diamond and 4 health.


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## Veronica1 (Jun 22, 2010)

www.dogfoodadvisor.com rates 4Health & Diamond Naturals both as 4 out of 5 stars. Panzer has been on Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice since he was a young pup. Gas is not an issue - a refreshing change over previous dogs. 

Someday I'd like to switch to Taste of the Wild (5 stars), but can't afford the price difference right now.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Veronica said:


> www.dogfoodadvisor.com rates 4Health & Diamond Naturals both as 4 out of 5 stars. Panzer has been on Diamond Naturals Lamb & Rice since he was a young pup. Gas is not an issue - a refreshing change over previous dogs.
> 
> Someday I'd like to switch to Taste of the Wild (5 stars), but can't afford the price difference right now.


I know that TOTW is a very popular food and that it is rated high, but I read the ingredients while I was choosing a new dog food yesterday and it has quite a bit of potatoes in it. My GS does not do well with potatoes so I don't think I will ever give him that food.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Thank you Veronica for the link. I saw that Pro Pac is a 3 star, so I am glad that I chose the Diamond. Especially since it has the same 4 stars that 4Health does. Despite the recall, I think if they do ok on this food that I will stick with it then.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I don't really like Pro Pac. And its the first food I fed to my dog Tessa, and had her on it for a couple years before I moved up to a higher quality food. There was nothing particularly bad about her reaction to the food, but moving to a higher quality one made a noticeable improvement.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Do you feed your dogs Pro Pac? I was looking at that food also at Tractor Supply. If you do feed it, do your dogs get gas, or diarrhea/soft poops? How long have you been using it?
> 
> Any Pro Pac feeders or who have fed this in the past please tell me your opinion about this food.


Pro Pac is vastly superior to any Diamond Product. First, Pro Pac is exported all over the world and must adhere to EU ingredient standards. I grant you Diamond Natural & 4 Health read better but the quality of ingredients and manufacturing are much much better. Midwestern Pet Foods has a squeaky clean record. Don't go by silly ratings on Dog Food Advisor. That guy is a dentist and just reads labels. Not one food is actually tested by that guy. He has no credentials to recommend any food.

Pro Pac is a 3.5 star food probably because it uses corn rather than 3 or 4 other grains. 

I have fed it, still feed Pro Pac HP and almost always Pro Pac went home with puppies because it is easy to get and it is a great value. I never felt comfortable sending a puppy home with a young family that scraped the money together in the first place to buy the puppy with an expensive food.

Pro Pac is 100% GTD and has never had a recall.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Pro Pac is vastly superior to any Diamond Product. First, Pro Pac is exported all over the world and must adhere to EU ingredient standards. I grant you Diamond Natural & 4 Health read better but the quality of ingredients and manufacturing are much much better. Midwestern Pet Foods has a squeaky clean record. Don't go by silly ratings on Dog Food Advisor. That guy is a dentist and just reads labels. Not one food is actually tested by that guy. He has no credentials to recommend any food.
> 
> Pro Pac is a 3.5 star food probably because it uses corn rather than 3 or 4 other grains.
> 
> ...


I will have to look further into this. I do not like corn in dog food though. That is why I stopped giving my dogs Purina One, because I wanted a dog food without corn in it. 

As far as your puppies are concerned, I wouldn't feel comfortable sending a puppy home with anyone period who had scraped together the money just to buy him.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> I will have to look further into this. I do not like corn in dog food though. That is why I stopped giving my dogs Purina One, because I wanted a dog food without corn in it.
> 
> As far as your puppies are concerned, I wouldn't feel comfortable sending a puppy home with anyone period who had scraped together the money just to buy him.


What a foolish and cold thing to say. Do you think wealthy puppy buyers provide a better home than the average middle class puppy owner?

For many families buying a puppy, the crate, the initial vet visits, toys, food, boarding etc. is a big expense. I see no reason why I need to pressure a young family into feeding the internet food du jour.

Corn is one of those internet myths. Legitimate research over and over again finds corn no more allergenic than rice. You will not find one peer reviewed study that says otherwise. I dare you to look.

Its your dog and your money.


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## Veronica1 (Jun 22, 2010)

The other comment about ProPac was that one of its protein sources is plant-based - rice gluten. It sounds like corn in and of itself isn't all bad, but oftentimes the conditions of feed corn is terrible (probably like most things we eat) and that it's a common allergen.

I like the dogfoodadvisor site. It's ok with me that the guy is a dentist. He's also a pet owner and has done a lot more research than I would have been able to do on my own. And with everything, can't take it all as gospel but use it as a basis for more research. It's also independent so probably gives more honest information than most pet food company sites.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Veronica said:


> The other comment about ProPac was that one of its protein sources is plant-based - rice gluten. It sounds like corn in and of itself isn't all bad, but oftentimes the conditions of feed corn is terrible (probably like most things we eat) and that it's a common allergen.
> 
> I like the dogfoodadvisor site. It's ok with me that the guy is a dentist. He's also a pet owner and has done a lot more research than I would have been able to do on my own. And with everything, can't take it all as gospel but use it as a basis for more research. It's also independent so probably gives more honest information than most pet food company sites.


First, the corn in a food like Pro Pac is called #2 Corn or better, not "feed corn". And the grade has nothing to do with allergies whatsoever. Corn is graded by broken kernels, moisture content and whether there is any foreign matter like pebbles and sticks etc. The fact that this food comes from an EU Certified plant ensures that it is of the same grade that goes into any corn product you might eat, more than likely #2. The grading has nothing to do with the nutritional value.

As for rice gluten, the only Pro Pac food with it is the Lamb formula and there is good reason. Rice flour in some of the others is just ground white rice. The same kind that goes into baby food. The protein content from Chicken Meal is very high. If the foods were 100% rice or corn the maximum amount of protein would only be about 6%. So clearly a food with Chicken Meal ranging from 25% - 30% does not have much grain in it.

Westgate Pet Clinic presents WagsandWhiskers.com

This pretty much sums up the facts. My father always said "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story"


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

sable123 said:


> What a foolish and cold thing to say. Do you think wealthy puppy buyers provide a better home than the average middle class puppy owner?
> 
> For many families buying a puppy, the crate, the initial vet visits, toys, food, boarding etc. is a big expense. I see no reason why I need to pressure a young family into feeding the internet food du jour.
> 
> ...


FYI, my dogs are both allergic to corn, so I guess it not such an internet myth after all. 

You are the one that chose the term "scraped together enough money" this does not imply a middle class family to me. A family that scraped together money to buy a puppy may not be able to scrape together the money for an emergency trip to the vet, which is something that is likely to happen, thats what I am referring to, not to the kibble. There is much more to consider than that when selling dogs but they're your puppies, sell them to whomever you wish.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I scraped together money to buy and vet Chance at 16 years old. He had parvo and parasites that I wasn't expecting which was hard after all the other cost. He didn't even cost NEAR what a breeder puppy would. (Came straight out of animal control)

But I can tell you that dog isn't lacking anything in life just because the up front cost of buying everything I needed for a puppy (And a very sick one at that!) required checking under the couch for loose change. If an emergency WAS to come up, I have a savings account opened that I put money into each pay check to make sure it's covered. If I don't use it at the end of the year, it goes towards his yearly check ups. (Fecal, urinalysis, full blood work, heartworm checks, ect) You don't have to be made of money to keep a dog, you just have to know how to budget right. And even if your budget wont fit $60+ a month for food, it doesn't mean you're a bad owner or your dogs going to "suffer" for it.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> I scraped together money to buy and vet Chance at 16 years old. He had parvo and parasites that I wasn't expecting which was hard after all the other cost. He didn't even cost NEAR what a breeder puppy would. (Came straight out of animal control)
> 
> But I can tell you that dog isn't lacking anything in life just because the up front cost of buying everything I needed for a puppy (And a very sick one at that!) required checking under the couch for loose change. If an emergency WAS to come up, I have a savings account opened that I put money into each pay check to make sure it's covered. If I don't use it at the end of the year, it goes towards his yearly check ups. (Fecal, urinalysis, full blood work, heartworm checks, ect) You don't have to be made of money to keep a dog, you just have to know how to budget right. And even if your budget wont fit $60+ a month for food, it doesn't mean you're a bad owner or your dogs going to "suffer" for it.


:thumbup:A savings account for your dog...love it. That is responsible pet ownership!


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> FYI, my dogs are both allergic to corn, so I guess it not such an internet myth after all.
> 
> You are the one that chose the term "scraped together enough money" this does not imply a middle class family to me. A family that scraped together money to buy a puppy may not be able to scrape together the money for an emergency trip to the vet, which is something that is likely to happen, thats what I am referring to, not to the kibble. There is much more to consider than that when selling dogs but they're your puppies, sell them to whomever you wish.


Then you are the exception. What else is your dog allergic too. How was this diagnosed? Oh by the way this is your guru.

*"No, I’m not a veterinarian. And I’m not an animal nutritionist.

However, I am a consumer advocate and considered an expert at reading and interpreting pet food labels*"

Yes, there is a PHD given for label reading.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Then you are the exception. What else is your dog allergic too. How was this diagnosed? Oh by the way this is your guru.
> 
> *"No, I’m not a veterinarian. And I’m not an animal nutritionist.
> 
> ...


They, we are talking about two dogs here from two different breeds were placed on a food trial. Their symptoms that prompted this were itching, and hot spots forming from the itching, and they were also displaying food intolerance. After the food trial was conducted the culprit was found to be corn. Many dogs have allergies or intolerance to corn. Since eliminating it from their diet they have been doing great and the skin and stomach problems that they were having have not returned. I hope this answered your question. Oh, let me answer your sarcastic question to, what else are they allergic to? Hmmm, they are allergic to people in denial.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

sable123 said:


> Oh by the way this is your guru.
> 
> *"No, I’m not a veterinarian. And I’m not an animal nutritionist.
> 
> ...


Pot, meet kettle.


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

I used Diamond for years with my dogs. They all ate it. They all did good on it except my female.
She started scratching all the time. She started chewing her nails off. Her coat started to look poor and thin. I was told she might have a food allergy. 

So we changed to 4health. Over a couple of months....big improvement.

But one thing I have noticed....somebody else said in another post.....the bags consistency seems to change somewhat.


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