# Allergies - Want to start a raw diet



## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

Hello all,

Maverick 1 1/2 yrs old and is allergic to poultry and has some digestive issues. (no EPI) In August we started her on Canidae Bison and lamb. We also feed digestive enzymes, a probiotic and another GI Support pill. She has done fabulous on that combo. Her poops are darn near perfect! She is absorbing her food, is a healthy weight and is happy and healthy. Problem: She started itching and licking and was Dx with a staph infection a little over a month ago. She was given an antibiotic and the infection is cleared up, but the itching continues. Oatmeal baths have temporarily helped. Benadryl or Zyrtec haven't had any impact. Vet wants to try a steriod, but I don't want to go that route. I checked for fleas, but don't see anything. We use Frontline all year round. Contact allergy, maybe? Not sure what inside the house is causing this? Ears aren't bad, we clean them regularly. Dog breath is ok. Coat is shiny and beautiful. Teeth are great. Vet says she is in great health. So.... She may have developed an allergy to the bison and lamb? She used to go hogwild for this food, a combo of kibble and canned. Now she is starting to turn her nose up at it. I'm thinking of a premade raw diet, I don't have the freezer space to DIY. Thinking of Nature's Variety. If she is allergic to poultry in the kibble, is she likely to be allergic to raw poultry as well? Any thoughts on any of the above? Thanks so much! :help:


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## vhowell7 (Jul 4, 2011)

we do 1/2 raw (Stella and Chewy's Beef) and 1/2 Fromm kibble for large breed. I did that to save on the cost - for a 65 pound dog (she's only 8 months) I would have to feed her 10 "pucks" of meat a day, which can get pricey. I do only 5 a day with the dry kibble.

Shadow used to itch ALL the time, and now her itching has stopped. 
They have several flavors - beef, chicken, duck. I think duck is supposed to be good for allergies and easy to digest. If she is allergic to chicken just go with one of the other flavors. Shadow gobbles this stuff down fast.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

If you can make it to one of their pickup-points, these guys have a nice variety of different meats. Wisconsin Delivery | My Pet Carnivore 

I mostly buy beef, goat, turkey and tripe from them. Only problem is they only deliver once a month, so you need freezer space.


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

vhowell7 - LOVE the Fromm food. We fed that to her when we brought her home. That is when we discovered the allergy to poultry - chicken turkey and duck  After she had turkey for the first time, we landed up in the ER with an overnight visit. Vet thought the Fromm food was also just too rich for her with the egg and cheese. We don't feed any of that either. I live about 30 min away from where they produce the Fromm food and I'm impressed with the high quality. Fromm is my first choice, but Mav just doesn't do well on it. Even the grain free beef.... I also live 2 min away from the Stella and Chewy's plant and love their quality as well. Mav didn't do well on their freeze dried treats, especially the duck. Vet thought they may have been too high in fat for her. Her sensitive system just couldn't handle it. She got explosive diarrhea. I also sprinkled the freeze dried patties on her food to make it more desirable for her, but that caused a problem for her too. So I hesitate to try Stella's raw. But it looks like the raw is lower in fat and the ingredients themselves look great. I think its a fabulous food, I just wonder if she will have the same reaction to the raw poultry as well. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

First, what else is in the kibble she is eating? 

I like My Pet Carnivore that is recommended above. I use their tripe mix. Friend feeds their other mixtures and has found them to be very reliable.


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

Here is the ingredient list in Canidae Bison and Lamb:

*pureLand*
_*Ingredients*_ - Bison, lamb meal, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, canola oil, potato protein, tomato pomace, natural flavor, salt, choline chloride, natural mixed tocopherols, taurine, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, papaya, pineapple


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

There is a lot of extra "stuff" in that food so hard to know what your dog may be reacting to. You may find once you switch to raw that you no longer have allergy issues even with poultry.


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

I know each dog reacts differently, but has anyone found that they no longer need the digestive enzymes or probiotics after starting the raw? Or should those still be used as a supplement? Our Maverick has such a sensitive stomach, any little thing can set it off kilter. I hate to stop those things and have to battle the issues as a result. She had a fight with SIBO earlier in the year. Does the raw help with that issue as well? Sorry for my ignorance. Just trying to learn everything I possibly can so I can do what's best for my Maverick! Thanks :blush:


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would add green tripe daily...it has natural digestive enzymes and many benefits. A Place for Paws - Columbiana, Ohio - Tripe - The Other White Meat


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

cci058 said:


> Maverick 1 1/2 yrs old and is allergic to poultry


How do you know this?

If you are basing it off a reaction to chicken based *kibble *it is not accurate.

The only definitive way to know what a dog is allergic to is to put them on a limited ingredient diet. That CANNOT be done using kibble.

I would recommend starting your dog on chicken - raw of course - any NOTHING else.

You can buy whole chickens and cut them into the basic parts - wings, legs, thighs, backs and breast. Cut the meat from the breast and use that as the Muscle Meat. Everything else is Raw Meaty Bones.

I would feed chicken for at LEAST 4 weeks before I decided that my dog was either ok with it or allergic.

Once I determine the dog is ok with one protein source I add another. Doesn't really matter what it is - the point is to add only ONE new protein source/ingredient at a time and give the dog a good 3-4 weeks to assimilate it.

If you want to go with premades select one that has only ONE ingredient - no veggies, fruits, grains, etc. - just one meat source.

I checked the Nature's Variety website and couldn't find a premade raw product that did NOT have several ingredients.

I use and recommend Bravo and Omas Pride. They both have single ingredient premades.


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

Earlier in the year we had her on a limited ingredient diet. Home prepared Beef and potatoes. We added turkey and that was disastrous. She was so sick she was overnight in the ER and received IV fluids. We tried the cooked chicken breast and she had horrible diarrhea and eventually developed SIBO. We couldn't keep weight on her. Duck caused immediate diarrhea - within 10 minutes. These additions were NOT kibble. Based on this, you can understand my hesitation about the poultry. I don't want her to have to go thru anything like that again. I've never fed raw, but I'm trying to learn and get used to the idea.


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

*Primal Raw*

I reviewed the ingredients in Nature's Variety again and see what you are referring to. I don't like all of the eggs they have in there either. I am impressed with Bravo, as well as Primal Raw. Any thoughts on that brand? I believe I've narrowed it down to 3: Bravo, Primal Raw and Stella and Chewy's. Thanks for the insight as I navigate through this process!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

cci058 said:


> Earlier in the year we had her on a limited ingredient diet. Home prepared Beef and potatoes. We added turkey and that was disastrous. She was so sick she was overnight in the ER and received IV fluids. We tried the cooked chicken breast and she had horrible diarrhea and eventually developed SIBO. We couldn't keep weight on her. Duck caused immediate diarrhea - within 10 minutes. These additions were NOT kibble. Based on this, you can understand my hesitation about the poultry. I don't want her to have to go thru anything like that again. I've never fed raw, but I'm trying to learn and get used to the idea.


My first concern is what did you give for a calcium source during that time? I don't see anything that would be a calcium source and that could be a reason for loose stools.



> I reviewed the ingredients in Nature's Variety again and see what you are referring to. I don't like all of the eggs they have in there either. I am impressed with Bravo, as well as Primal Raw. Any thoughts on that brand? I believe I've narrowed it down to 3: Bravo, Primal Raw and Stella and Chewy's


Eggs are an OK thing to feed - after you get her regulated on the diet. It's all that OTHER stuff - fruit and veggies - that she doesn't need and could be causing problems.

Stella & Shewy's has the same issue. I don't see them offering anything other than their 100% complete frozen diet.

If it's 100% complete that means they have added grains, carbs, fruits and/or veggies - all things dog do NOT need.

Primal does have a Beef Grind - just beef:

Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Ground Beef Bone.​But I would want to know what percentage of liver is in there. Too much liver can cause loose stools.

Bravo has 'Basic' formulas with contain just what it says (but no beef):

Basic Formula Chicken
Basic Formula Turkey
Basic Formula Lamb
Basic Formula Rabbit
Basic Formula Ostrich
Basic Formula Elk
Basic Formula Duck
​ They do have a beef product but it's a 'Blend' - which means they have added stuff. It's not as bad as Stellas or Nature's V but also doesn't list how much of the liver is contains:

_New Zealand Beef Blends: 
_Grass-fed New Zealand beef, beef bone, beef organ meat (heart, liver, kidney), carrots, celery, squash. _

USA Made Burgers: 
_Grass-fed beef, grass-fed beef bone, grass-fed beef heart, yellow squash, turnips, celery, grass-fed beef liver, grass-fed beef kidney.​Any of the above are going to be expensive!


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## cci058 (Nov 18, 2011)

Until I get the hang of the raw feeding and learn how to create a balanced diet for Maverick on my own, I may have to use the "complete" formulas. I understand what you are saying, but I hate to switch to DIY when I'm not confident in what I'm doing yet. When we had her on the limited ingredient potato and beef earlier this year, it was because of loose stools on other high quality foods, chicken breast, cheese and egg. The beef and potato settled things down for her and her stool became 100% normal. While she didn't have a good source of calcium during that short time, I was able to regulate her system. When we slowly worked the other items back into her diet, all of them failed. I have her on the beef and potato right now because she had stomach upset over the holiday. I added her vitamin, enzymes, probiotic and fish oil. Her system seems to be back on track and we are back to 100% perfect poops. BUT..... she still has the itching. No hot spots or biting herself raw, but enough to make some changes for her and see what works. Thanks for the insight. I appreciate the feedback. I'm learning alot!


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

cci058 said:


> Until I get the hang of the raw feeding and learn how to create a balanced diet for Maverick on my own, I may have to use the "complete" formulas. I understand what you are saying, but I hate to switch to DIY when I'm not confident in what I'm doing yet. When we had her on the limited ingredient potato and beef earlier this year, it was because of loose stools on other high quality foods, chicken breast, cheese and egg. The beef and potato settled things down for her and her stool became 100% normal. While she didn't have a good source of calcium during that short time, I was able to regulate her system. When we slowly worked the other items back into her diet, all of them failed. I have her on the beef and potato right now because she had stomach upset over the holiday. I added her vitamin, enzymes, probiotic and fish oil. Her system seems to be back on track and we are back to 100% perfect poops. BUT..... she still has the itching. No hot spots or biting herself raw, but enough to make some changes for her and see what works. Thanks for the insight. I appreciate the feedback. I'm learning alot!


Chicken breast, beef and potato would cause loose stools since their is nothing that would firm her stool in this diet. 
Feeding raw is very simple, a balanced diet does not necessarily mean an everyday balanced meal. It is more of a complete diet that balances itself out over weeks and sometimes months.



I would start with RAW chicken first (with the bones of course). from a lot of researching raw, i found that most dogs that were allergic to chicken were only allergic when the chicken was cooked or in kibble. There are dogs that are allergic but it's not common.

try it for a month and see, if your dog does well start adding another sourse of protein if you're going with beef make sure you either have raw meaty bones, like ribs for example or add it to chicken. you need the bones to keep the stool firm. after another 2 weeks you can add another source of meat like pork or deer or elk etc.
if after 2 proteins your dog is doing fine you can start adding a little bit of organs (liver, kidneys, brain, etc) only 10% of the meat should be organs, too much organs would cause loose stool.

ETA: the first couple of days there will be loose stool anyways, could last for a week. it's the body's way of detoxing from all the crap in the kibble, so don't worry about it. also no need for digestive enzymes when on raw, they digest it quite well. adding green tripe to the meal will give all the enzymes you need if you need it.


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