# Vet visits with the suspicious dogs



## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

I apologize in advance for generalizing this question.

For the protection sports, we like to see a certain amount of natural suspicion in our dogs. How do your dogs do when taken to the vet? Is a muzzle necessary? Do you stay with your dog as much as possible? And any other behaviors you wish to share. TIA:smile2:


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

So I know I may be in the minority for this. To me it should make little difference if the dog is a sport dog, and how it behaves at the vet. The fact that it is a sport dog should, IMHO, mean that it has a better understanding of what is and is not a threat. I do not allow my dogs to decide what needs to be acted on if I am there and in full faculty. If I tell my dog to allow something, then they better allow it. Period. I dont think we can give an excuse that they are trained in "protection". To me they should be better behaved and have a better nerve strength than a pet, if they are trained to "attack"

If your dog, however, is too suspicious and will not listen to your direction, then muzzle training is a great idea. I will always support an owner that tells me I should muzzle their dog. I dont want to get bitten. Period. And I do not think less of an owner that is up front with me in regards to my safety. I appreciate it.

But I think there needs to be proactive and offensive training in regards to veterinary handling with all dogs. teach them to hold still, teach them to stand for exam, teach them to allow someone to look in their mouths and in their ears and stand over them for a auscultation. these are all things you can desensitize at home and then work with your vet to better prepare them for a vet visit. I strongly support paying the exam fee to train your dog to be a good vet citizen. And taking a reactive dog to the vets when nothing but treats and love happens.

I have never had an issue with any of my dogs at he vets. But all of my dogs get to go to the vets for stuff that is not painful, they come to work with me, so when they get vaccines or something, its a one off, its not the norm.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I muzzle my dogs for vet and grooming procedures to take away any 'options' the dog may think he/she has. 
One of my males is great being examined, handled and I don't think he would bite at all. 
My other male is not into his feet being touched nor strangers invading his space. Both are in IPO/SDA. The male that hates handling, will stand calm for blood draws and examination, but the muzzle is on him. He spent two weeks at MSU recovering from Lepto. IV and a catheder running into him. They did muzzle him when handling.

Because the GSD can be intimidating and many are nervy, the staff at many clinics have some reservations about handling them and prefer muzzles. So, muzzling is a given for my dogs....they tolerate it, get what needs to be done done, and then the muzzle comes off while we discuss whatever.
My female is not in sport, is horribly aggressive when being vetted, she is muzzled and we cover her eyes with a towel which is calming to her. I hate that she is this way, but it is what it is. She also fights anesthesia, very hard to put under. 

I stay with my dogs if possible, and for simple things like vaccines or blood draws, I have a tech or the vet come out to my vehicle and we do it in the parking lot so they don't even have to go inside the building. The dogs are calmer if they aren't put into a room to wait for vetting.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

None of mine are protection trained. None of my 4 gsds make a fuss at the vet, all can be examined without issue. One vet requested Ranger wear a muzzle in order for her to administer his rabies shot. She openly admitted she was intimidated by him, that's fine we just needed the shot to stay within the year and go onto the 3 year cycle. She was the only vet on staff that day, normally there are 2 others. This same vet does great with our other 3. We've also have used the VCA vet for Sunday visits if needed, all my dogs do well there too.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Newlie is not protection trained but also does not generally have a suspicious nature. He doesn't care for other dogs much, but he likes people. At his regular vet, they put him up on the table, and the vet's son holds him while procedures are done which is both comforting, but also keeps Newlie's head turned away. 

At the surgeon's office, both before and after the surgery for Newlie's ACL tear, I held his head while his leg was being examined. It was uncomfortable for him and I am sure even painful at times, but he stuck his nose down in my lap (If I can't see him, he can't see me.) and grumbled and cried and growled, but that is as far as it went. I was banking on the fact that he would not bite me and he didn't. If the staff had asked to put a muzzle on Newlie, I would have agreed, but it wasn't necessary. My feeling is that if you are not willing to be facing the end with the teeth, then you have no right to insist that a muzzle not be used.


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## Bjax (Nov 23, 2016)

I thought my shikoku was good at the vet. Licking the staff, not to terribly nervous. Apparently he is only good if I'm there. We were going in for hip x-rays and an emergency case came in. They said I could drop him off and they would see if they could get to him. We'll I received panicked phone call/emails not 10 minutes after I left to come pick him up right NOW. Apparently he turned into a different dog (their words) as soon as I left. He became so aggressive they couldn't get him into a kennel let alone muzzle him. This is a Air Force base vet, whose specific mission is to treat military working dogs, and they couldn't handle him. 


By the time I got there, they were able to get him into a kennel. They asked me to retrieve him from the kennel in the back by myself. When I got him, he seemed nervous, but not Cujo. I asked to borrow their muzzle and I put it one him half a dozen times and then the receptionist put it on him with out incident. 


They now require me or my husband to be present at every appointment. There is no such thing as "back room time" for us unless we're also in the backroom, and I got him a basket muzzle.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The only one I muzzle is Apollo. He was decent at the vet up until his neuter. I'm not sure what happened but he has made it clear he does not like the girls in the back. We just went last week, just for a nail trim. It bothers me that he doesn't like them, because I don't know what happened when he was there. He is fine with the girls up front. When the tech came in he was not happy and did not want to go with her. I told her be careful, even with the muzzle. He was fine for the nail trim. I can't prove anything but by his reaction, someone was not good with him. I wish I knew who.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

llombardo said:


> The only one* I muzzle is Apollo. He was decent at the vet up until his neuter. I'm not sure what happened but he has made it clear he does not like the girls in the back.* We just went last week, just for a nail trim. It bothers me that he doesn't like them, because I don't know what happened when he was there. He is fine with the girls up front. When the tech came in he was not happy and did not want to go with her. I told her be careful, even with the muzzle. He was fine for the nail trim. I can't prove anything but by his reaction, someone was not good with him. I wish I knew who.


Onyx was also fine with vetting until her spay. After that, she was super aggressive whenever a vet, or tech approached her.
I think the anesthesia wasn't helpful and she was semi awake during the procedure. She was in a whale eyed red zone anytime we went to the vet for a few visits. I switched vets, it didn't help. I don't blame the vets, I don't blame her temperament, I do think it had to do with her being put under. I assisted my own vet in a hematoma repair with her. She would not go under, I had to hold gas on her the whole time. Though, it was more of a twilight anesthesia at that time because it was an emergency type vetting, just me and the vet on a weekend. It was clear, though, that it takes a lot to knock her out. I have used different relaxers, tranquilizers and it never takes the edge off(for nail trims or vetting).
Ace is something I'd never recommend for a dog with aggressive tendencies, it just ramps up the mind, but the body can't act. Very frustrating for the dog.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

My girl was put under to remove a shattered tooth and she was not right when I picked her up. she didn't act like she knew who I was and less my husband that night. I felt I had to grab her the way she was staring at him. She loves him. She was not herself at all, it was weird and creepy. The next morning when I heard her tail thump I was so relieved. I was really nervous to let her be anesthetized for her endoscopy but it was different this time. I picked her up and she was still loopy and stumbly and when I got down to see her I said "do you know who I am?" and she pressed up against me and smelled me and then started singing her happy song. she was sedated but herself.

My boy got knocked out to have his x rays and when I came back for him I couldn't believe it, like an hour after full anesthesia he was totally alert, mauling me with happiness, a little unsteady on his feet. I was curious to see what he would act like when we went back to the vet and he was totally neutral. 

I have a lot of faith in my local vet and his staff and the hospital I took her to is top notch and the people were so friendly and compassionate and professional I find it hard to believe anything other than that was going on behind the scenes.

Neither of my dogs like the vet, the boy less than her I think. I just had him in a few weeks ago for inflammation in his feet, and the vet had to force him to let him look at his feet. He willingly lets me do whatever but not a stranger. I held his head. He grumbled while the vet was looking, i was holding his head and front end still and I didn't get the feeling he was really going to do anything but I have been training him in my basket muzzle in case since he is a grumbler when he is hurt. I feel like he and I have a really good understanding and he is being great about letting me do stuff to him, the vet not so much. That time, I was the only one in the line of fire from his mouth but if the vet ever had to be in his face doing something unpleasant I'd muzzle him because it's just such a simple precaution it's silly not to take it


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I agree 100% with what gsdsar says about a protection trained dog at the vet. 
We do IPO and my pup is not happy at the vets. Our vet also does not usually like GSDs because of having to deal with so many bad ones. I make sure my GSD is not one of the bad experiences and the vet always compliments me on how well behaved she is. I will not allow inappropriate aggression so I do my best to prevent it, bring her a ball to focus on and talk to her a lot while waiting, even do a little obedience. The vet also gives her treats and takes time to let her get used to her at each visit. She clearly does not enjoy the vets but is trustworthy not to act aggressively.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I am currently muzzle training Deja for future vet visits. I didn't like the way she over reacted in the last visit when she needed to be checked for a licking spot, which was only a minor thing. The vet trusted me way too much in me being able to control her. Treats didn't persuade her at all. Nothing happened but better safe than sorry. I like the Baskerville muzzle'.


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## LBethO (Mar 18, 2017)

My GSD was protection trained before I got her. She had vet records that indicated several anxiety issues, etc. She was on a revolving door in the vets after she came to us. Spay, UTI and then a glass accident where she and my young Golden went through a NON Tempered glass door. She was cut to ribbons, fileted her foot and required about 100 staples. The Golden slashed artery, tendons and what not in her leg. Anyhow, Neika never even growled. She was a perfect lady while examined then when she had those sutures removed. It didn't occur to me until later that I need a muzzle in my first aid kit, just in case. She is mouthy around strangers and barks at dogs. But I believe her obedience training takes over any aggressive behavior? Sure, you want them suspicious. I assume when you are present and relaxed with vets and personnel, the dog understands that?


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## Cascade (Mar 5, 2017)

onyx'girl said:


> I muzzle my dogs for vet and grooming procedures to take away any 'options' the dog may think he/she has.
> One of my males is great being examined, handled and I don't think he would bite at all.
> My other male is not into his feet being touched nor strangers invading his space. Both are in IPO/SDA. The male that hates handling, will stand calm for blood draws and examination, but the muzzle is on him. He spent two weeks at MSU recovering from Lepto. IV and a catheder running into him. They did muzzle him when handling.
> 
> ...


My male is also aggressive when being vetted and is always muzzled, though I have not tried covering his eyes with a towel yet and will have to try that next time. He is better when he is able to go straight into an examining room though and doesn't have to wait in the waiting room. I tell them ahead of time if my GSD is not good with dogs so they have a room he can wait in. I also stay with him while everything is done, up until they take him in for surgery (if needed). I have had the vet vaccinate him at home (we had the vet out for our horses and he did our dogs as well) but my male was still bad and seems to hate needles (he cries the entire time it's in whereas my female doesn't even flinch)

My female was very stressed at her first vet visit (she is a rescue at 7 years old) but wasn't aggressive and was good for the entire exam and vaccines and everything. I wish my male was better with the vet, and it is something I try to work with but I will always muzzle him. I haven't thought of asking them to come to my vehicle so it can be done in the parking lot..I will see if that helps as well.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Rocky was my first "Bubble Dog" a dog that needs to be muzzled for a time to be safe in public but ... we got over it. I showed him what I wanted him to do when out about if I stopped to talk to people ... "nothing" and he got that. Apparently for him that translated to the vet and staff. But GSD's that need to be muzzled for vet visits is ... "apparently not unusual" like many things it depends on the dog.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Not ONE of my GSDs has ever been a problem at the vet's. As a matter of fact, the other day, when I went into the office to pick up some medication, and left my older female in the car, she was PISSED OFF at me!! She wanted to go in and visit with Dr. Christie! I told the vet, and she had a good laugh and said, "That's how I've always hoped my practice would be!"

I've never gone out of my way to teach them to like the vet, beyond maybe going in to have them weighed when they were young, so they wouldn't always associate the vet's with being poked and prodded. The ones who have protection training are no different from the others in their behaviour. The just all have had good, stable temperaments.

Yes, occasionally they have been muzzled, for instance, when the eye specialist was doing tests on my male dog's eyes, and when 2 of my dogs threw hissy fits over the bordotella vaccine being sprayed into their noses. If I have any doubts about how they might react to a certain procedure, I don't hesitate to suggest a muzzle, for the vet's safety.

My big male, who passed away last April, even allowed the vet and his techs shave, clean AND suture a bad bite wound on his hind leg without sedation OR a muzzle. (He was also my hearing ear service dog, and I wouldn't have trained him for that job if he hadn't had a really good temperament.) 

Heck, even Gracie, the beautiful show line rescue I had to have euthanized for dog aggression was very good with the vet!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My experience is that vet visits always go well as long as there haven't been any negatives for the dogs. I always socialize pups at the vets and they never blinked an eye for shots even. They only have to hurt once to make them suspicious at following visits. Same with Deja. Whenever we come to the vet now and they offer her treats she is is like, "Yeah, I know you guys, just tel me what's up! Keep your treats to yourself, you are not fooling me". I don't think it has anything to do with being disobedient, because she is completely obedient and I understand her suspicion. After all she is not a robot, hence the muzzle as a precaution.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> My experience is that vet visits always go well as long as there haven't been any negatives for the dogs. I always socialize pups at the vets and they never blinked an eye for shots even. They only have to hurt once to make them suspicious at following visits. Same with Deja. Whenever we come to the vet now and they offer her treats she is is like, "Yeah, I know you guys, just tel me what's up! Keep your treats to yourself, you are not fooling me". I don't think it has anything to do with being disobedient, because she is completely obedient and I understand her suspicion. After all she is not a robot, hence the muzzle as a precaution.


Yes. This is kind of what I was thinking about.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

It's not always about the training the dog has or a negative experience at the vet. I've raised dogs and titled them in IPO and they were fine being handled by the vet to vet techs. I've had other dogs that will not allow a stranger to handle them, period. For those dogs, I handle them and if there is the possibility that they will react aggressively they are also muzzled. 

IMO, there is nothing wrong with muzzling a dog at the vet to avoid a possible bite. I muzzle Boomer for every visit since he has been a year old. He has not had a bad experience, has a strong, excellent temperament, and is very confident. He will however absolutely bite someone that tries to handle him. My vet appreciates the fact that I muzzle him and insists that I handle him for all procedures, including X rays, shots, etc.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Slamdunc said:


> It's not always about the training the dog has or a negative experience at the vet. I've raised dogs and titled them in IPO and they were fine being handled by the vet to vet techs. I've had other dogs that will not allow a stranger to handle them, period. For those dogs, I handle them and if there is the possibility that they will react aggressively they are also muzzled.
> 
> IMO, there is nothing wrong with muzzling a dog at the vet to avoid a possible bite. I muzzle Boomer for every visit since he has been a year old. He has not had a bad experience, has a strong, excellent temperament, and is very confident. He will however absolutely bite someone that tries to handle him. My vet appreciates the fact that I muzzle him and insists that I handle him for all procedures, including X rays, shots, etc.


I agree, but(there is always a but) in my case, the dog was fine for 18 months. He had stayed at the vet previously because he had a possible blockage without issue, plus all vaccines, nail trims, etc. I'm absolutely positive something happened the day he was neutered. I kind of wonder about the anesthesia. He was wide awake and ready to go like he never got fixed. He even broke the crate when we got home and stabbed himself( right back to the vet), it was that visit that I noticed the difference. He is find in the waiting room, with the receptionists too.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

llombardo said:


> I agree, but(there is always a but) in my case, the dog was fine for 18 months. He had stayed at the vet previously because he had a possible blockage without issue, plus all vaccines, nail trims, etc. I'm absolutely positive something happened the day he was neutered. I kind of wonder about the anesthesia. He was wide awake and ready to go like he never got fixed. He even broke the crate when we got home and stabbed himself( right back to the vet), it was that visit that I noticed the difference. He is find in the waiting room, with the receptionists too.


I'm not saying that a dog can not have a bad experience at the vet. I didn't enjoy my last Dental visit very much and I rather not go back. I don't like getting stuck with needles, some dogs don't like that either. Dogs mature and change. A dog that was friendly to the vet and staff and now is maturing may not appreciate the handling anymore. As I said, I don't think there is anything wrong with muzzling a dog at the vet, some dogs definitely need it, some don't. I know that my vet appreciates the fact that I muzzle Boomer. My vet still tells the story of when Boomer knocked him to ground and pounced on him. We laugh about it all the time. We are both very grateful that Boomer had his muzzle on or the vet would have been bitten seriously. Aggressive dogs, strong dogs or nervous dogs with weak temperaments should be handled carefully and safely. 

We have dogs in our K-9 unit that are super social and friendly at the vet, they all get muzzled as well. It is not worth the risk or taking a chance of someone getting bit.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Yeah, Varik was fine at the vet's until .. he wasn't. He went in with a leg injury at less than a year old, the vet started to pick him up to put him on the table and Varik growled. Since my vet (I've decided) is actually fearful of big dogs, it's now required by him that I muzzle. Varik is fine with everyone until exam time. The six months of an anal gland infection (and expression of gland every other week testing the efficacy of the treatment) hasn't helped. He's fine, then I muzzle him, he growls while they haul him up on the table, growls/snarls during exam/treatment, he's taken off the table, I remove his muzzle .. and he's back to fine. I control his head.

He hates being muzzled and hates being picked up. For a while I got the vet to examine him on the floor, but the past time or two I noticed the vet has regressed to expecting him to be picked up.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Galathiel said:


> He hates being muzzled and hates being picked up. For a while I got the vet to examine him on the floor, *but the past time or two I noticed the vet has regressed to expecting him to be picked up.*


Oh ... I'm sorry your dog had a Vet Visits setback that sucks. 

But the par in bold ... just goes to show people are lazy. Although I suppose it's better that you lift him then the vet so whatever works. :grin2:


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Hehe .. yeah .. I can't lift Varik. He weighs 90 lbs and is long bodied, making for an awkward hold. I'm going to go back in at the end of the month and I'll ask them again not to pick him up. I wish they had a 'big dog' examining room with a lower exam table that he could get up onto on his own. Maybe I'll suggest that, too. hmph.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Galathiel said:


> Hehe .. yeah .. I can't lift Varik. He weighs 90 lbs and is long bodied, making for an awkward hold. I'm going to go back in at the end of the month and I'll ask them again not to pick him up. I wish they had a 'big dog' examining room with a lower exam table that he could get up onto on his own. Maybe I'll suggest that, too. hmph.


Why does he need to be up on a table? My GSD's are never put on a table unless they are getting surgery


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Why does he need to be up on a table? My GSD's are never put on a table unless they are getting surgery


Time for this vet to get a hydraulic table.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I think my vet is uncomfortable leaning down around the dog... I don't know. I think he also believes that being up on the table disorients/distracts the dog so maybe he won't get mauled.

The previous is all supposition. I like the vet himself and he was wonderful with my senior dog, but my senior dog was a shih tzu, which the vet also had and loved the breed. I just wish he was better with Varik. It's a little sad. Varik does so well really with the personnel (until exam time). He LOVES the receptionist and likes the female vet techs. Yeah .. Varik is a ladies' man. The male vet tech and vet he's fine with; he's just more into ladies.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I changed vets as soon as I found out from a neighbor with a GSD that our vet didn't enjoy GSDs " all are going to be aggressive and need to be neutered". Neighbor had dog neutered at 6 months old: as an 8 year old now has no muscle, bad coat and bad bones.


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

Tech here.

I sedate my current dog before we go in. I insist on keeping her with me, and putting a muzzle on during anything painful. I had one GSD before who was perfect for anything, but she was an exception.

The best behaved GSDs I have worked with were all police dogs. All were recovering from surgery (including several gunshot wounds...), and had a confident calmness to them. They all wore basket muzzles whenever they were awake. All of the police dogs coming in for teeth issues and non-emergent care wear basket muzzles and stay with their handlers. Police dogs always have their handler in the room.

But...The worst behaved GSDs won't let me examine them. The more over-sized, washed out black and tan with that "overbred" look, the more of a pain in my neck the dog is going to be. But, the overbred WGSL dogs are usually awful too. I just had a gorgeous black and red long-haired male GSD go straight for the vets neck as soon as he touched the dog. TOUCHED. 

The breed has a reputation in the veterinary community, and it is generally not good. I work with a few people who loathe anything that even looks like a shepherd MIX. As a tech myself, other people I have worked with have asked what possesses me to own them! 

The result is that most, if not all, GSDs are completely manhandled during any procedures at the vets office. The staff are afraid of them, so most of them slap a muzzle on the dog and go all cowboy. If I am on shift that day, I am one of a few people called over specifically to handle GSDs. Most people just really don't understand how intelligent and sensitive/intuitive they are. Many staff in the vet field are so used to the majority of dogs just falling over in submissiveness and accepting things that happen to them (looking at you, goldens/labs); this is not the nature of the GSD. They want to know what/when/why, and do not appreciate being treated roughly. Most of them just need some time. Some need sedation, and that is OK too!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Irie said:


> Tech here.
> 
> I sedate my current dog before we go in. I insist on keeping her with me, and putting a muzzle on during anything painful. I had one GSD before who was perfect for anything, but she was an exception.
> 
> ...



It took me three different vets to find one for my Midnite. They were just not good with either the breed or the size. When I walked in to the last vet, he went up to Midnite with such confidence, it was so nice to see. Before I knew it Midnite was hugging the vet. They all love Midnite and he loves them too. I felt Midnite deserved better and I found it for him.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Galathiel said:


> Hehe .. yeah .. I can't lift Varik. He weighs 90 lbs and is long bodied, making for an awkward hold. I'm going to go back in at the end of the month and I'll ask them again not to pick him up. I wish they had a 'big dog' examining room with a lower exam table that he could get up onto on his own. Maybe I'll suggest that, too. hmph.


LOL ... 112 lbs here and freakishly long! The vet gets on the ground with us ... no problems.


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