# Grooming at home



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I did not want to hijack any one's threads about clipping their dogs so started my own. I am sure there are plenty of folks here that will disagree with my decision, but I just bought clippers and did a home groom job on my girl, Nadia

She has an extremely thick undercoat and even after a good bath, brush and blow out she had so much uncontrollable hair everywhere. She is always panting from being too hot, always restless, and in general never comfortable. She is also not good with strangers, so I consider her a liability in most instances. I am not comfortable taking her somewhere and expecting a stranger to be able to groom her. She might do okay, but then again she might not and I cannot afford to take that kind of chance. 

I adopted her in June of '09 and she had never been to a groomer since. 

This is what she looked like shortly after bringing her home. Her pants were under control, not too long and easily managed.









After three years of taking the advice of only bathing brushing blowing out etc, this is what she looked like. It became increasingly difficult to nearly impossible to manage the mats and keep her clean.

















Her is what she looks like today. Her pants are short-maybe a tad too short, but so thick that she is still well protected from the elements, yet not so long that she is baking from the inside out. This will make it easier to maintain when it grows out to her original length. Never again will my dog go without regular cuts, trims, or whatever it take to maintain a manageable coat.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Smiling here because with 22 views no one has had anything negative to say  Guess I didn't do her any harm!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I viewed and was going to comment pretty girl, because she is

I'm clueless on this topic. My boys coat is thick but not as thick as your girls. I am lucky we can get away with just normal weekly brushings.

I am jealous you are in Washington, such a beatiful state!


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I forgot, were you feeding raw?

What kind of supplements are you giving?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

aww thanks Courtney  The only reason I posted about it is that there are a few other threads ongoing regarding the subject. 

Once her coat grows back out some I will be maintaining it with scissors and/or clippers as needed, but will never let it get that long again! I feel like I was borderline neglecting her letting it get so long. That hurts my heart. 

But she is cooler and happier now


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I just wanted to add, my cat is long haired, I trim his hair every summer, it gets all matted tool.


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

Nothing negative, but to make it more appealing looking, may want to try thining shears on the thick parts, and scissoring up the long strands to make it look neat next time. Shaving makes it look to "choppy". And you won't have to worry about the "mange look". Because unfortunately when you shave a dog that is not meant to be shaved you take the risk of having the hair come back either wiry, thin, or not come back at all. Good luck.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I personally don't like the thought of clipping a fur rather then hair coat, but it's your dog and I'm not going to scold you  lol


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Josie/Zeus said:


> I forgot, were you feeding raw?
> 
> What kind of supplements are you giving?


I fed a 50/50 diet until about 4 months ago. They got their morning raw breakfast and a bit of kibble in the evening to prevent sour empty stomachs. It just became financially impossible for me to continue raw at all a few months ago. I definitely see a difference int heir coats from then to now too.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

As for supplements (I forgot to answer that part) I give Fish Oil, probiotics, Vit E and Nadia also gets Tumeric/Bromelain for inflammation. 

I know that she looks a bit choppy in places and I have given her some extra trimming with scissors here and there so she doesn't look so bad. My primary concern was to get a majority of the hair off because we went from cloudy and 50 and day to 85 the next. She just can't take the heat. I have no doubt in my mind that her hair will grow back in no time and then I can maintain a better 'look' but to be honest looks are not nearly as important as her being comfortable in the weather.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

I take Scarlett to a "do it yourself" dog wash. It's GREAT!! For $19 vs $80, I can bathe her, blow her dry (greatest dryer ever...all the noise is in the ceiling so Scarlett actually LETS me dry her!) and get her nails trimmed. 

I do trim Scarlett's twiggly bits and girl parts. I also "de muppet" her feet and the fringe behind her legs. She looks great and with weekly deep brushing, we have a pretty good grip on the hair. Of course when she blows her coat, all bets are off. 

Since she isn't being shown, I trim her for looks and sanitation. Sorry, no look is worth having a behind full of dingleberries! I leave her tail, ears, chest and belly alone. Just the prone to matting areas and sani bits get a trim.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I do a lot of this type of trimming on longhaired dogs like Goldens, Aussies, etc. Trim up the "pants", underside, and tail, so that the longer hair doesn't get so matted and pick up so much debris, but I'm not shaving the whole coat. You didn't do a bad job--I've seen worse.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I *this* a place where the Mars Coat King would help? For my short coated dogs it seens just the undercoat rake pulls out a lot of that white fluff on the back legs and under teh tail.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Yes, this would be the ideal situation for use of a Mars Coat King. It will cut the hair as you comb it through, de-bulking and thinning out the area. Would be a good alternative to clipper or scissors. If you use a grooming spray during the procedure, it will help cut down on static and ease the process a bit. If you don't have grooming spray, just misting with a bit of diluted hair conditioner will help. You can also do it during the bath while the dog is soaking in shampoo--just be careful around the hock area, as it is easy to catch with the tines and they are SHARP!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Shaving makes it look to "choppy".


I mean, it's your dog, but it would drive me nuts to see it shaved that way. 
Can you brush her at all, if so, brush and reverse the suction on your vacuum and blow the coat as you comb it. A rake is a good tool for this.

Brush often and it won't build up to where it needs shaved. Usually reserve shaving for complete mats, not regular undercoat. Undercoat is better when combed/brushed/blown out. If it's matted it'll hurt when brushed out, so that's when you get out the clippers.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> I mean, it's your dog, but it would drive me nuts to see it shaved that way.
> Can you brush her at all, if so, brush and reverse the suction on your vacuum and blow the coat as you comb it. A rake is a good tool for this.
> 
> Brush often and it won't build up to where it needs shaved. Usually reserve shaving for complete mats, not regular undercoat. Undercoat is better when combed/brushed/blown out. If it's matted it'll hurt when brushed out, so that's when you get out the clippers.


Thanks for the tips  

I brushed her every few days for the past three years. Used rakes and every other tool I could think of to try to maintain her coat. Bottom line is there was no keeping up with it. Her undercoat is so thick there is no way to ever ever get it all cleaned up and her pants and feathers and tail hairs were so long she was stepping on it, I was stepping on it, and if she got even slightly wet it would mat. She would not hold still for a vacuum, and I might have a lot of free time, but still it got to a point that I was spending 2-3 hours every few days just on brushing her out. I still spend a good deal of time because of her undercoat. Due to her adamant dislike for strangers, I could not take her to the groomers for a professional job. This was my first attempt at this kind of thing and I learned a great deal. While she doesn't look extremely good in the final pic, at least I can see things better-like see if she gets hot spots (she had a few starting that I would have never seen had I not done this) ...

Anyways....I did what I did for my girlies health and comfort, not for looks. 

Thanks again!!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Do you bathe her before brushing her out?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Do you bathe her before brushing her out?


Not every time because I brush her so frequently and that would damage the natural oils but I do bath her. She had a bath that day, dried completely and then the 'haircut' and she still had/has tons of undercoat coming out. I have raked her 3-4 times since and get so much fine undercoat. It is very thick and she sheds year round. 

If nothing else this thread can be referred to as the 'what not to do when grooming your GSD' for those who do not like the look or care about what is going on under that much hair. 

Day 2 after this cut/shave I found a rash on her belly that could not have been caused by the clippers (because I used scissors on her belly)...

Also as far as hygiene is concerned...she couldn't clean herself because the coat was soooooo thick! 

Other than people's obsession with looks, I have no regrets.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Shasta's winter undercoat is super thick and we manage to keep it tidy and mat-free with (almost) daily brushing. It only takes about 5 minutes each day, except when she's blowing coat. However, if we lived in a warmer climate and I thought Shasta was really suffering with the heat, I would probably consider some trimming.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Zisso said:


> I brushed her every few days for the past three years. Used rakes and every other tool I could think of to try to maintain her coat. Bottom line is there was no keeping up with it. Her undercoat is so thick there is no way to ever ever get it all cleaned up and her pants and feathers and tail hairs were so long she was stepping on it, I was stepping on it, and if she got even slightly wet it would mat. She would not hold still for a vacuum, and I might have a lot of free time, but still it got to a point that I was spending 2-3 hours every few days just on brushing her out. I still spend a good deal of time because of her undercoat. Due to her adamant dislike for strangers, I could not take her to the groomers for a professional job. This was my first attempt at this kind of thing and I learned a great deal. While she doesn't look extremely good in the final pic, at least I can see things better-like see if she gets hot spots (she had a few starting that I would have never seen had I not done this) ...
> 
> Anyways....I did what I did for my girlies health and comfort, not for looks.


You shouldn't need to feel like you have to defend your grooming--you do what you need to keep your dog comfortable and happy! Some people are so adamant that double-coated dogs NOT be clipped at all, whatsoever, at any time, for any reason, and it's just not that black and white! Some dogs just have waaaay too much hair and something has to be done with it. I will do whatever the client asks me to, as long as it doesn't hurt the dog. Contrary to the beliefs of some, clipping a coat does not cause dogs to overheat and very rarely does it cause a permanent change to the texture of the coat--yes, wire-coated terriers will lose harshness and color if clippered, but that is more an issue of aesthetics than protection anymore. Very elderly dogs will sometimes get clipper alopecia, where it takes a very long time for guard hairs to grow back, and the dog looks pretty awful at a certain stage of growth. For that reason I try to avoid clipping older dogs, but if they are horribly matted and miserable, there's just not a whole lot of choice.

You have to use common sense and not leave skin showing, or leave a freshly clipped white dog in the sun all day, or leave an outside dog without any protection from the elements. I will try to talk clients out of clipping if I don't think it would be of any benefit to the dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The undercoat comes out more easily after a bath, why, I don't know, but it does loosen the coat so it's easier to brush out.

PS. I happen to be owned by a very vain, Princess-y double coated dog, for the past 10yrs. Yeah, it's about looks to me. 
But then again, she's a poster girl in Petsmart, so we're doing okay 










This was the start of spring. I've had to do this 2-3 more times since.
And bathed her last week and are still working on random tufts


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> The undercoat comes out more easily after a bath, why, I don't know, but it does loosen the coat so it's easier to brush out.


Yes it does. A warm bath and a good scrub with a Zoomgroom or rubber curry comb will loosen up dead undercoat; rinsing with a high-pressure hose attachment will help it slide right out. Then blast the dog with a high-velocity force dryer and very little brushing needs to be done!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

My only comment, having thick fine hair that needs to be thinned (particularly it seems the older I get the more my head sweats) is that simply cutting it short is not what gets the air to my scalp. Thining it out does seem to help in that regard. Hence, my question about the coat king. 

Since my dogs spend a good bit of time outside to be acclimatized to summer heat for working, the issue seems to take care of istelf and I have a few weeks of that whole molting buffallo thing to contend with ...... and the summer coats are much thinner.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I had never heard of the Coat King until this thread. I can say that it is clear some do not agree with my decision to do this. However, I have tried the bathing technique mentioned above, to get the undercoat out, bathing, high power nozzle, I have taken her to Petco and done a do it yourself bath and I have brushed her with various rakes, dematting tools brushes and more. I have used conditioners made to loosen the undercoat, the mitts that loosen it. 

This was not something I did on a whim. Nadia has the kind of never ending, thick but very fine undercoat. She sheds year round. Not just a little but more than I have ever seen. The pics posted above are barely a tenth of what I get out of Nadia on a bath day. 

It is not like her life is over...LOL it is not even a catastrophe!! It is a matter of the dog being comfortable, me being able to see what is going on with her skin, and still having time for my job, my other pets, my house and to have fun with my dogs too. I can't spend every waking hour brushing her....just can't...

I think I will make a daily diary of what I do for her in a one week period so you all can see how much fine hair we get almost daily, even now that this is done.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> The pics posted above are barely a tenth of what I get out of Nadia on a bath day.


You said you didn't bathe her..?

I know, Libby's coat got way worse and I had to do another huge brushout/down. I just do it more often.

The problem what I have with shaving undercoat, is it does not get rid of the undercoat. It just makes it shorter. 
You didn't help the dog at all - looks aside, the dog needs to cool itself by getting the woolies OUT/off the body, not just making them shorter.

When they shear sheep, they go to the skin. They don't leave a woolly, shorter coat.
If you went to the skin and basically denuded her, that'd be a start. If you've been clipping her undercoat, it's just all piling up to make one big mat, you're not really solving the issue.

Now that it's shorter, perhaps you can get the fur off down to the skin. If it's never been gotten off there, down to the skin, she may have mats and you just don't realize it.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I didn't bathe her that morning, but she had a bath two or three days prior. She gets brushed every two to three days, including undercoat and I wasn't trying to shave her undercoat, I was trying to get the mass of hair back to somewhat manageable....

Either way, it is obviously a done deal. I still have no regrets  Nuff said!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I think she looks just fine! And if she seems more comfortable, then it worked out perfectly! Not sure why you're being criticized so harshly..It seems to be on ongoing trend recently with some posters.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thank you GatorDog  I definitely appreciate hearing your input!

I figured there would be some to criticize my decision....no biggie really. That is what this forum is really known best for  

My girl is much more comfortable now than she has been for the past two years and all the grooming-brushing, bathing, raking and dematting in the world didn't make it better.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

To be clear - if you like her like that, it's fine. 
I'm trying to explain why clipping doesn't fix the problem of too much undercoat but can actually exacerbate the issue.
I hope you saw that in my post.
And then again you put the post up yourself to be open to criticism. :shrug:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think it is your dog and you can do what you want and no one has accused you of abusing your dog *but for people looking for options for accomplishing the same goal* other ways of getting there were presented.

There are posts where people attack other people and make all kinds of accusations. This is not one of them.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> *but for people looking for options for accomplishing the same goal* other ways of getting there were presented.


They may have been presented, but this was started after the fact that I had already clipped her. Like I said before I have learned a great deal from this experience...from the actual clipping of y dog, not the thread. 

No one said I was being attacked...just criticized...nothing wrong with that. We are all entitled to do and say as we please.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> To be clear - if you like her like that, it's fine.
> I'm trying to explain why clipping doesn't fix the problem of too much undercoat but can actually exacerbate the issue.
> I hope you saw that in my post.
> And then again you put the post up yourself to be open to criticism. :shrug:


Actually, in my honest opinion, the clipping did help. prior to that I could not get to the skin to properly groom her. I could not find all the mats because there was simply too much coat to try to get through. I wasn't trying to Fix the problem so much as give myself the opportunity to get to the problem TO fix it. 

As far as the criticism goes....I took it all in a positive manner, nothing personal, and have learned a great deal. Things I never would have known without the experience in doing it and discussing it  No one offended me, and I hope I have not offended anyone either.


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