# Stress Biting?



## nongenre (Nov 8, 2009)

I consider myself a competent dog owner, but I'm a bit puzzled by some troubling behavior from my GSD lately.

My wife and I own a 2-year old spayed GSD female and a 4-year unaltered corgi male. I'd generally describe my GSD as a playful, non-dominant dog. My corgi has some growling and occasional snapping issues, but my GSD has never shown any signs of aggression, and if anything is more submissive/shy than I'd like.

We recently started fostering rescue puppies. We had a litter of four jack/beagle pups, and my GSD was just what you'd expect - she'd play with them, roll around, and occasionally correct bad behavior with a loud bark or by rolling a puppy over. We still have one male of that litter with us and they are great together. My dogs got a little more protective at mealtime than usual, but I can still take my dogs food out of her mouth with no resistance, so I didn't worry about it.

Recently we took in two male boxer mix pups, who are bigger puppies. Our GSD has attacked them a couple of times, usually because I think she gets overwhelmed when they play rough with her and she doesn't know how to end play. These attacks have been a little more aggressive than I'd like (she rolls and pins the puppy, which is now terrified- but then she doesn't let them up until I arrive and call her off) but generally speaking they seem normal, if a little scary.

Last week something happened - I feed the dogs in the evening (my own are on raw, the pups have kibble) and monitor to make sure every pup gets his own bowl. Raw takes longer to eat, so when the puppies were finished I left the room to talk to my wife. The puppies were with me when I heard a fight break out - I don't know what happened, but my corgi had been bitten and was bleeding from the ear.

I puzzled over the behavior and decided that a) I need to monitor her feeding, and b) she may not be getting as much attention as usual because I am so busy caring for the foster puppies.

So I've been making a point to interact, play with and exercise her like she's used to, and things have been fine - until today, when we had another incident.

I happened to step outside to reprimand barking at the neighbor's dog _(an ongoing problem I'm working on)_ and happened to see my GSD and the puppies with a bone - when one of the boxers lunged at and bit her. She attacked him; put him on his back and had his throat. I saw her start shaking and ran over. I pulled her head back and expected her to release but her grip actually raised the puppy off the ground. She released then, and I tackled her while the puppy escaped. Luckily his throat was soaked with spit, not blood - but I did notice bites and bleeding from his ear.

I'm not sure exactly what to do - I can get rid of the foster dogs easily enough, but I'm more concerned with getting to and correcting the root of these aggression issues. I think my dog may not know how to control her own aggression when she's pushed to the edge?

I'd love any advice folks have to share. Sorry for such a long post!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Just one question? 

If all these problem are happening with FOOD, why do you keep them together when there is food around?

My dogs get along great. They share ice cubes, share water, they eat from each other crates after they're done with their own meals. 
I trust them, but never once have I let them be together while there is high value food around. 

My dogs are always separated when it's dinner time. Raw or kibble, doesn't matter. 

I would never expect my dogs to share their food with these new dogs they don't even know. 

Don't leave any food around, feed them in separate crates/rooms and most of your problems are solved. 

Another thing people do is to keep new dogs separated when you've just brought them in. You can also separate them when you sense that your GSD is getting over stimulated to prevent an attack. 
It might be that the boxer pups don't have very good manners yet and they're coming off as rude to your GSD.
Either way, I would separate them until you have some control over the pups.


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## nongenre (Nov 8, 2009)

One point - every dog has an individual bowl. I would never dump five pounds of food into one place and let them at it. I'm not sure if that was clear in my post. The bone incident today was also not feeding time - this was playtime in the yard; the bone of contention had mysteriously found its way off the kitchen counter. D'oh.

My two dogs always feed together - I think it's an important ritual, so I have made a point to integrate the puppies into that. I am always present when the puppies are eating to do basic body-blocking when one tries to sneak into another's bowl. I do appreciate your point of viewl, but I think feeding them separately is addressing the symptom and sort of giving up on the underlying problem.

All that said, I may try it for a few days if issues continue, because I'm not sure if food value is the issue here, or if it's just stress and/or my GSD not knowing the line between correcting the pups and actually hurting them. Eliminating food value as a possibility might help determine that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It sounds to me like she is reacting rather than being aggressive. Maybe like her place in the pack is not set, she's not up to puppies playing (and boxers play and play and play) so she's starting to guard resources.

How does she act when she is around you with the other dogs? Is she starting to get clingy or trying to run the dogs off so she can have you to herself?


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## nongenre (Nov 8, 2009)

Jax - that's certainly crossed my mind, and it's why I started making sure I was paying enough attention to her after the attack on my corgi. 

Her behavior doesn't really change when I'm around - she always comes up and greets me, but generally will keep running around and playing with the pups.


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## Deux (Aug 16, 2009)

You now have a pack. 

I always feed my dogs in a kennel. To start with I know who ate how much that way. 

Never ever leave things of value around. Value = a twig that could be used for fetch=a ball= and yes you. People can be a value for a dog fight.

Are you sure your ready to own a pack? I can do 2 sheppys, I cannot do 3. Not even for a visitor dog for 10 minutes. Once I hit 3 I cannot leave the dogs alone. 

A female GSD too..... bad pack leader. If you had a male GSD she would most likely be ok. Females do tend to FIGHT to DEATH as pack leaders.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Although this does seem symptomatic of surrounding and varied issues, you might also want to have her thyroid checked. If she's got a hypothyroidism going on anything you try to do outside of that is going to be a waste of time until she's on meds for it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

baring medical issues, I am in agreement with Denali regarding the food issue.

While I understand your reasoning for wanting them all be able to eat together, you have puppies around that just don't know any better. I would NEVER leave puppies alone with an adult dog even for a second.

IF you want to continue to feed together, I suggest feeding bowls with ALOT Of space away from each other,,and I would definately supervise the entire meal..

I feed two adults together and one goes in his crate because he is going to snarf their food down when he finishes and frankly the "two" would let him.. Even tho my adults have no problems eating close together, I still stand there and supervise..


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I am also in agreement with Denali and Diane. I have my own dogs and two of them are fed in the kitchen with me standing there watching the entire time and my other dog and whatever foster I have at the time are fed in their crates. If there is one thing that will cause a fight, it is food. The fact that you have had new dogs in the house, especially puppies and young dogs, will change the pack dynamics and your dogs will start to act differently in various situations. 

In order to maintain peace in your household, I can not recommend enough supervising your dogs while eating and crating your fosters. This will also reassure your own dogs that they are still top dogs in their own home by not having to worry about their food bowl.


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

I agree with Diane. I feed all of my dogs next to one another and they all get along but I would never walk away, I stand right there until their done and once their done they all line up to get a bite of canned food off the fork.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliJust one question?
> 
> If all these problem are happening with FOOD, why do you keep them together when there is food around?
> 
> ...


Same here, Hope and Kaya do not get fed anything high value without me watching. Maybe after they have been together longer, but with a new dog it's asking for trouble.

And even the slightest lifted lip or challenging gets corrected.

To me stress biting is more like when Hope does when she snaps in the air or at her leash when she has to sit while I open the front door and she can't contain herself.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: ElaineIThe fact that you have had new dogs in the house, especially puppies and young dogs, will change the pack dynamics and your dogs will start to act differently in various situations.
> 
> In order to maintain peace in your household, I can not recommend enough supervising your dogs while eating and crating your fosters. This will also reassure your own dogs that they are still top dogs in their own home by not having to worry about their food bowl.


What she and everyone else has said. This is resource guarding and since it started when you got the foster puppies, clearly that is the problem. These puppies will be going to new homes at some point I presume, and then things should be back to normal in your house, so why aren't you willing to just manage the situation until then? If this was a problem between your own two dogs I can see why you'd want to deal with the issue rather than simply separating them at mealtimes and supervising when there are bones or other high value items around, but that's not the case here. 

Many people in multi-dog households always feed their dogs separately in their crates to prevent problems at mealtimes, and there's nothing wrong with that. I've always fed mine together, and after a few months when I know that they're okay around food I'll even leave the room, but until then I'm right there until everyone finishes so I can body block if someone (Halo!) decides to dive into the other dog's bowl. The past week or so I've actually started closing the gate of the garage pen with one dog on either side while they eat because I noticed that Halo will wolf down her food and then finish Keefer's food if he's not eating fast enough or wanders outside to take a pee break. (No wonder she's been looking a little "fluffy"!) Fortunately, they won't fight over food, I caught her shoving her head into his bowl while he was still eating and he let her.







But if he had objected and a fight broke out, you bet I'd make sure that they were always separated at mealtimes. Dogs shouldn't have to worry about being pestered and having their food stolen while they eat.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Your dogs don't <u>know</u> that these are temporary dogs - they live in the day & assume that all those extras are now part of the pack (& rude extras at that!).

You are also being very trusting of the fosters - that they are stable & not constantly ramping the aggression with rude behavior or angling for upward movement within pack hierarchy.

I would not expect my adult dogs to have to deal with any new puppy (even my own, let alone fosters) for more than a couple hours a day (under my supervision). If your dog loved puppies, it might be different ... instead it sounds as if she already has confidence issues (so really, she has been amazingly understanding).

If you don't like how she ends rough/rude play, then you need to step up & sort out the rough play before she is overwhelmed - so far, you've been making her deal with everything.



> Quote: when one of the boxers lunged at and bit her


She did not instigate.



> Quote: She attacked him; put him on his back and had his throat. I saw her start shaking and ran over. I pulled her head back and expected her to release but her grip actually raised the puppy off the ground. She released then, and I tackled her while the puppy escaped. Luckily his throat was soaked with spit, not blood - but I did notice bites and bleeding from his ear.


She did not actually tear his throat - that was pretty controlled of her. 
Are you certain that the bites on his ear were from this moment & not earlier rough play between the 2 pups etc?



> Quote: My corgi has some growling and occasional snapping issues


How do you respond to this? does she view this as appropriate behavior? (I'm assuming that she may take alot of her cues from him ie she grew up with him)



> Quote: I can still take my dogs food out of her mouth with no resistance


Do you just remove her food or do you always trade up?

Don't forget that she is only just becoming an adult now so her temperament may be changing & she isn't the easy going puppy so much anymore.

How long since you've done training classes with her?


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

my adults always eat close together, but any new puppy i have had eats in a crate or somewhere else until the big dogs are done. as Diane said puppies don't know any better, any food down is a free for all in their minds. i also stand around and supervise until everyone is done, then they all get a piece of celery, carrott, or pieces of apples, which they love.


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