# Is it wrong to want a white gsd?



## Linck (Mar 25, 2013)

I find them very beautiful. I realize good breeder is hard to find when they breed for color so I have a mix feeling. Is there a health concern? I currently have a 1 year 3 months old Black and Tan boy. I want to add one more puppy to the family once my Lincoln turns 2. As far as conformation or disqualifying color is not a problem to me. My dogs are not doing anything like that. They never going to be bred either. But I wanna make sure this white gene doesn't effect their health and temperament. Thoughts?


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

I think they are awesome. White in a GSD isn't a health issue like in some other animals. I'm sure some of the experts will have better info.


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## vprasad (May 17, 2013)

I have a white boy and I don't think its wrong


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Nope! Not wrong at all. The white gene in shepherds is the same gene that makes some labs yellow, so not linked to any health problems.

I would look into White Swiss Shepherds since they have a better population of good breeders in the US. WSSD History - The White Swiss Shepherd Dog Club of Australia Inc

It can be hard to find a reputable breeder of white GSDs, as you noted.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

In and of itself, the white color won't affect health or temperament.

Braehead is the only breeder of white German Shepherds that I know well enough to recommend, and I don't know their program _real_ well either. But they put out some nice dogs.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I certainly don't think so but I have now owned three of them and got my latest boy from Surefire about two months ago. For me it was my first dog who was a rescue that caused me to fall for shepherds and the white I am drawn back to again and again. 

As someone else pointed out, you will find them more under the White Swiss Shepherd Dog. They are basically aiming for certain temperaments, size, coat, etc. 

My two dogs are everything I wanted and their breeder has been wonderful to work with.  


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Kaimeju said:


> I would look into White Swiss Shepherds since they have a better population of good breeders in the US. WSSD History - The White Swiss Shepherd Dog Club of Australia Inc
> 
> It can be hard to find a reputable breeder of white GSDs, as you noted.


Actually until recently there have been very few White Swiss Shepherd breeders in North America. (Surefire is one of the exceptions) The majority of White Swiss Shepherds are found in FCI countries. 

Anyway...no, there's nothing wrong with wanting a white GSD, WS or WSS as long as you understand there are differences depending on where they come from, and some of these dogs can't be registered with the AKC. Some can be registered with the UKC as WS, some have to be registered as UKC white GSD's. 

After you look at the health and temperament you need to make sure that if you want to compete in AKC performance or obedience (as an example) that the dog can be registered with the AKC.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

you are going to spend 14 + years with with a new pup. get what you want. imho, i don't think it is wrong.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

yes


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

alexg said:


> yes


Why's that?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

check out a UKC show if there is one in your area. There are several breeders of white GSDs that show in conformation in that venue. They also do performance events


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

White is a not allowed, according to the breed standard of the United Schutzhund Club and the AKC clubs.

So if you want to support a breeder, not breeding to the standard, then it's up to you.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

If you like white and are not concerned with showing or competition. Nothing wrong with it. They date back a long ways. I've owned two, they were gorgeous.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I would love to own a white GSD! I think they are beautiful.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I would totally get a white shepherd. In fact right now its the only shepherd I'd even consider paying for.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Sp00ks said:


> If you like white and are not concerned with showing or competition. Nothing wrong with it. They date back a long ways. I've owned two, they were gorgeous.


You can compete in performance events with a white shepherd. One of the reasons I like Braehead is because their dogs do very well in a variety of AKC performance events -- as well as any of the "regular" GSD breeders. They've got good physical soundness, health, longevity, and sound temperaments from what I can tell, although (again) I have not seriously followed their output. But what I _have_ seen has been pretty darn good.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Get in contact with Echo White Shepherd Rescue, they operate nationally:
History of Echo Dogs
Available Dogs


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Not wrong, plenty of GSDs in all colors, shapes, and sizes. Get what you like!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

zyppi said:


> White is a not allowed, according to the breed standard of the United Schutzhund Club and the AKC clubs.
> 
> So if you want to support a breeder, not breeding to the standard, then it's up to you.


The AKC are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of dog breeds and conformation. UKC has a white shepherd standard and the UKC has been around over 100 years with a focus on working abilities and Total Dog. You can show a white shepherd and compete in about a dozen different performance events at UKC shows. I do not personally care for white shepherds so I have no horse in this race, but to say the breeders are not breeding "to standard" is not true.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Liesje said:


> The AKC are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of dog breeds and conformation. UKC has a white shepherd standard and the UKC has been around over 100 years with a focus on working abilities and Total Dog. You can show a white shepherd and compete in about a dozen different performance events at UKC shows. I do not personally care for white shepherds so I have no horse in this race, but to say the breeders are not breeding "to standard" is not true.


My horse was a "White" Boxer and I'll get another so I'm biased.  Go with your gut.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Absolutely not, they are pretty awesome dogs. Find a good rescue or breeder and go for it 

I really love blues and livers, I would never ever go to a breeder who deliberately breeds for them but if a fluke happened and one became available from a great breeder I wouldn't be hesitating. 

A dog is more than just their colour


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Agree with Lies. Find a breeder paying attention to nerves, health and soundness (just like with any dog). I have met a few of the imported Swiss whites (or what ever they are called) and, while not a dog I would want, had nice solid temperaments.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Shade said:


> Absolutely not, they are pretty awesome dogs. Find a good rescue or breeder and go for it
> 
> I really love blues and livers, I would never ever go to a breeder who deliberately breeds for them but if a fluke happened and one became available from a great breeder I wouldn't be hesitating.
> 
> A dog is more than just their colour


Shanna, how is it that you always post exactly what I want to post?


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Aren't the White Swiss Shepherds FCI recognized? I might be mistaken but that was what I'd always thought. I am Facebook "friends" with a few WSS/BBS breeders overseas and their breeding dogs are health tested with IPO titles (and sometimes other obedience and/or tracking or performance titles). 

I'm not really familiar with many of the White Swiss Shepherd or White Shepherd breeders here in the states, but I know Whiteshepherds has three dogs from a breeder on the east coast that owns and has produced heavily titled dogs. A friend of mine in the midwest is expecting a litter out of her homebred white German Shepherd in the next few days and I'm very excited for her  Sure, I prefer one type of dog, but that doesn't mean her dogs aren't great and worth buying. I happily recommend her to those looking for a white GSD for UKC conformation and/or companionship. Breeders with white German Shepherds/White Shepherds/White Swiss Shepherds may have different goals for their breeding programs but the color itself has little to do directly with the dog's health and temperament. And you will always find that kind of variety in breeders and the dogs they produce, even within the same lines/type. 

Just because a breeder produces white GSDs or White Shepherds it doesn't mean that color is all they care about. There are definitely breeders out there that also focus on health, temperament, breed type/conformation, and yes, the breed standard.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Shanna, how is it that you always post exactly what I want to post?


Hans is still transmitting Canadian brain waves sometimes?


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I think that White Swiss Shepherds are UKC and FCI. They aren't really any different than other shepherds lol. You can't technically call them GSD, but truth is they are basically the same thing. Just a different color. 

You should get what you want as much as what is right for you and your lifestyle. It doesn't matter what kind of breed you are going for, you should always be looking for good temperament, nerves, structure. My first dog came from unknown background, she had plenty of genetic issues, but my two current dogs are very physically capable and live to go with me. Even my 8ish month old puppy can do long hikes with us, running over all kinds of challenging terrain.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

What throws me off is that you have your UKC White Shepherds being shown and handled and exhibited as White Shepherds, but you also have your white German Shepherds registered in the UKC and being shown/exhibited as GSDs. And some of those dogs are from the same lines and everything lol. 

I don't know if there's a difference between White Shepherds and White Swiss Shepherds/Berger Blanc Suisse, though, although I've noted that almost all of the WSS/BBS I know of are long coats (and overseas), whereas the White Shepherds here in the States are more commonly short coated. Maybe just a lineage thing or overseas vs. North America thing? I mean, yeah, they're all bred from German Shepherds but it's interesting to see the variety and to learn what the differences are *technically*, particularly because I've known breeders of the different types and have wondered.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I have no idea what breeders are doing here in the U.S., or elsewhere, all I know is that there are plenty of white german shepherds that are sitting in shelters - or being taken in by rescues for re-homing... at least, that is the case in my neck of the woods.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> I have no idea what breeders are doing here in the U.S., or elsewhere, all I know is that there are plenty of white german shepherds that are sitting in shelters - or being taken in by rescues for re-homing... at least, that is the case in my neck of the woods.


Not around here.  I tried for about 2 years to get one through rescue. Finally gave up and got my little dude.... (black and tan). I have never seen one listed in any of our Shelters and the rescue where I volunteer tried several times to bring one up from California but every time they got adopted right out of the shelters and never released to rescue.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Not around here.  I tried for about 2 years to get one through rescue. Finally gave up and got my little dude.... (black and tan). I have never seen one listed in any of our Shelters and the rescue where I volunteer tried several times to bring one up from California but every time they got adopted right out of the shelters and never released to rescue.


Very interesting. Because I have seen so many white shepherds in rescue where I am, I would not have thought that there were areas where they are less common.

You should also look at Echo White Shepherd Rescue, they do national transports.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

White shepherds are very rare in rescue around here too. I think I've seen _maybe_ three or four of them come through our network, and one of those was probably a mix, but could have been a poorly bred purebred.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

People always say that they never had seen a white one before or knew it existed where I am. I don't pretend to totally understand the whole registering thing with the UKC lol. I know my female is registered as a GSD with the AKC. Her mother was a black/tan. Or black/cream. Her color was a bit light. Her father was white. My boy has lots more white dogs in his background lol.

Registry isn't what really matters to me however. >> Outside of the fun it is to know dogs related to my dog lol.


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## Jakesworld (Mar 4, 2014)

So, I think white GSDs are stunning, and regal looking. I've thought about getting one myself, but keep getting dogs that look like the one before them. Guess I'm stuck on sables. But anyway, you don't plan to show right? Sooo who cares what AKC thinks or allows? AKC doesn't care about health or temperament, as long as it's purebred. I would think that if people were gonna get upset about whats true to the breed they'd take a good look at what has been done to ruin the American GSD. You go find your white pup, I'm sure he/she will be everything you want it to be.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

We don't get white GSDs around here much, either. And honestly, I don't really see that many GSDs here at all? My sister volunteers at the local humane society, and I'm on Petfinder much more frequently than I should be, and usually don't see that many GSDs. Maybe there will be one or two new GSDs for adoption/rescue every few months, if that? Can't even remember the last time I saw a white GSD on Petfinder or at the humane society. Most people I talk to outside the forum (even ones who own GSDs) believe that white German Shepherds have health issues associated with the coat color. It's surprising how many people confuse it with albinism.

Regarding registration, I've heard that a white GSD registered with the AKC can be registered as either a White Shepherd or as a German Shepherd Dog under the UKC. And even if registry doesn't necessarily matter, it does mean that conformation showing is still very much an option for those interested in white GSDs and showing dogs. White GSDs don't have to just be for people who don't care about conformation or registry, although like Whiteshepherds pointed out, they'd need to be aware of what their dogs can be registered and shown as.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Merciel said:


> White shepherds are very rare in rescue around here too. I think I've seen _maybe_ three or four of them come through our network, and one of those was probably a mix, but could have been a poorly bred purebred.


Very interesting to hear. Again, there are a lot of white shepherds in the Midwest that come through rescue. I honestly don't know why that is the case. Maybe because the midwest is the heart of the puppy mill industry? Again, I don't really know.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

The FCI White Swiss Shepherd breed followed a very specific set of guidelines when developing the breed. Eventually they closed their stud books and now have the following guidelines: (From the FCI circular for the WSS)

1. White Swiss Shepherd Dogs (347) CANNOT be mated with white German Shepherd Dogs 

2. WSSD cannot be entered in the studbooks of this very breed if a part or all their ancestors (3 generations) were still registered, after 01.01.2003, as white German Shepherd Dogs.

3. It is not allowed to re-register as a WSSD (347) a dog which was registered as a white German Shepherd Dog (166) after 01.01.2003.

4. An accidental white German Shepherd Dogs (white puppy in a litter of German Shepherd Dogs) with one or more coloured ancestor(s) cannot be used for breeding as a WSSD nor can it be re-registered as a WSSD.

The AKC and the UKC will both register FCI White Swiss Shepherds. The AKC registers them GSD's (if they have a complete pedigree, some don't) and the UKC registers them as White Shepherds. 

If you export a UKC WS, UKC white GSD or an AKC white GSD they can't be registered as White Swiss Shepherds in FCI registries. It has happened but those registrations can and have been rescinded when they're reported to the FCI. 

FCI White Swiss Shepherds must pass temperament, conformation and health tests before they can be registered or bred.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Rei said:


> Regarding registration, I've heard that a white GSD registered with the AKC can be registered as either a White Shepherd or as a German Shepherd Dog under the UKC.


The UKC closed their stud book for the White Shepherd at the end of 2013. AKC white GSD's can no longer be registered as UKC WS unless the dogs in their pedigree were also registered as UKC WS.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Whiteshepherds said:


> The UKC closed their stud book for the White Shepherd at the end of 2013. AKC white GSD's can no longer be registered as UKC WS unless the dogs in their pedigree were also registered as UKC WS.


Oh, interesting!! I just remember speaking to a few breeders several years back about how they had to specify in their contract what they wanted their dogs to be registered as (WS vs. GSD). Did not know that the stud books were closed recently, thank you for correcting me!


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Shade said:


> Absolutely not, they are pretty awesome dogs. Find a good rescue or breeder and go for it
> 
> I really love blues and livers, I would never ever go to a breeder who deliberately breeds for them but if a fluke happened and one became available from a great breeder I wouldn't be hesitating.
> 
> A dog is more than just their colour


I would own a blue or liver too, honestly haven't seen a color of GSD I didn't like lol.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Rei said:


> Oh, interesting!! I just remember speaking to a few breeders several years back about how they had to specify in their contract what they wanted their dogs to be registered as (WS vs. GSD). Did not know that the stud books were closed recently, thank you for correcting me!


 
See how much easier it is to own a GSD that's a standard color?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

LifeofRiley said:


> Very interesting to hear. Again, there are a lot of white shepherds in the Midwest that come through rescue. I honestly don't know why that is the case. Maybe because the midwest is the heart of the puppy mill industry? Again, I don't really know.


It seems like Missouri is loaded with them.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Nothing wrong with it. If you are looking for a breeder, I can PM you the name of the kennel my pup's Dam came from. Solid breeding program, imho, and the dogs in the lines are pretty amazing. 

I didn't go into my GSD search looking specifically for a White, but I couldn't be happier with him and the breeder I got him from is amazing. 

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## LeCielEstRouge (Jul 4, 2012)

We just adopted a nine month old white female recently, and she is very sweet but still very much a puppy. She's great with our kids and has bonded really well with them. I honestly don't think coat makes a difference. Ours has a higher prey drive than our blonde male but that could just be breeding. Our male is lazy and older. Lol. Go for it! Find a good breeder or adoption agency and go with what your heart and gut tell ya.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Whiteshepherds said:


> See how much easier it is to own a GSD that's a standard color?


The only convincing argument against white shepherds, as far as I'm concerned


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## Okin (Feb 27, 2013)

To me it the whole white shepherd not being a GSD is really strange. As it was explained to me in a different thread on this subject, according to the SV if there are two SV registered GSD's that have a litter and one of the litter is white that one white puppy is not a GSD and all the rest of the dogs are even though they are genetically identical. It doesn't make much sense to me that the color, not the pedigree of the dog would change the breed.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Not sure how true this is. But I was told that white gsd are a birth defect, sort of like albino in humans.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Not true at all. That is true in some breeds but not the GSD white.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Merciel said:


> White shepherds are very rare in rescue around here too. I think I've seen _maybe_ three or four of them come through our network, and one of those was probably a mix, but could have been a poorly bred purebred.


I just checked Petfinder for my state and only found one white GSD available in my state.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My step-dad had a white GSD Misty in the late 60-early 70's. She was a great dog. I wish I had some photo's of her(nobody took photos back then!). When he married my mom she was about 8 or 9. 
He owned a service station and the dogs stayed there most of the time as watch dogs. He had the city impound lot for the police so security was necessary. Once a someone tried to break in and Misty was in the garage. He must have taunted her, either he or she busted through the window on the service door and she chased him down.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

LifeofRiley said:


> Very interesting. Because I have seen so many white shepherds in rescue where I am, I would not have thought that there were areas where they are less common.
> 
> You should also look at Echo White Shepherd Rescue, they do national transports.


I will keep that in mind next time. Right now with Little Dude I've got my hands full.  

I wonder why there are so many whites in your area when there are so few elsewhere? Do you have a lot of breeders in your area?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Okin said:


> To me it the whole white shepherd not being a GSD is really strange. As it was explained to me in a different thread on this subject, according to the SV if there are two SV registered GSD's that have a litter and one of the litter is white that one white puppy is not a GSD and all the rest of the dogs are even though they are genetically identical. It doesn't make much sense to me that the color, not the pedigree of the dog would change the breed.


It's true although at this point I don't think you'll find too many whites being born in SV litters, if any.

The SV believed white was a serious fault and they believed that faults should be eliminated. Best way to eliminate a fault is to not allow the dogs to be registered. (and to kill them) Whether they were right or wrong about the white coat you have to give them credit for trying to eliminate traits they thought were harmful to the breed.


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