# First Time GSD Owner and Working Lines/Schutzhund



## whiferdill (Dec 30, 2011)

Been lurking around the forums for a few months - learning as much as I can about everything. I'm still a few years off from getting my first GSD between school and personal stuff going on. I've been looking at breeders and narrowing down who appeal to me and whatnot. 

I've also fallen a bit in love with Schutzhund and have spent a bit too much time procrastinating on papers by watching videos (Ozzy Barnero...) 

I've never owned a GSD myself. Been around them. Love them. But basically grew up with various hunting breeds (springers, english pointers, random mutts and our current dropped-off-at-the-farm-dog is a black and tan coonhound).

Boyfriends dog is a german shepherd who I kind of facepalmed when he told me he got her (backyard breeder produce) and after some intense socialization is turning into a really great dog (I had some reservations on her temperament and she has a couple of personality quirks I would attest to bad breeding some of which are improving with age others will probably always remain an aspect of her personality).

Future GSD would be my first dog as in my dog not my parents dog. Mine. 

And I know I want to do schutzhund (along with obedience, dabbling in agility, flyball and rally etc). Basically I want do a bit of everything.

And I know I want a working line dog.

But as a first-time GSD person do you think I am aiming too high or would be in over my head?

I intend to be completely upfront and honest with whatever breeder I end up going in the future and hope for the best match. And future puppy will be getting obedience training along with everything else needed.

I know as a first-time GSD person I will be making mistakes with my future dog. I expect to make mistakes. But I will do my best to do right by my future dog. 

So in essence: As a first time GSD person I shouldn't be deterred by the fact I want a working line dog and want to do schutzhund and other dog sports. I will be ok. Dog will be ok. I will be able to handle said dog (and by being honest with my future breeder will ensure my best match).

Yes I know I'm probably over thinking this (blame grad school).

But I'm trying to cover all my bases to the best of my ability. (My family breeders and trains and shows and sells horses thus me making sure every box is checked).

Here's an apple if you made it through this entire post. :apple: Thanks.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Not at all don't be deterred!!! From what I read of your post, you are doing/thinking out everything, which is great!
Personally I think the WL's are easy to live with. Finding the right breeder that has biddable healthy pups with off switches won't be that difficult either...there are many of them around. Thresholds of the lines would be a bit of a concern for me, I would not want a lower threshold dog to begin with. Nor a real high one....& balanced drives are very important in what pedigree matching the breeder does.
I would get with a club now if possible so you can see for yourself the different lines. Sport dogs or the more serious would be the next consideration. The more serious dog, would take more skill as a handler but should not be that big of a deal if you know what you are getting into and have support in the training.


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Sounds like you'll do we'll.

Just remember, beyond breeding, you need time.

No dog is 'magic.' Pup will need time and patience.

Best of luck.


----------



## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I think you are on the right track. You are researching your choice BEFORE you make a commitment, which is what I wish 1/10th of my clients would have done .
Our family has 9 GSDs, 7 are working line and 2 are show lines. To be honest, for us the WL dogs are the easiest to live with. That could be because our entire family is involved in the dogs and enjoys working with them and spending time on training. We participate in Schutzhund, but even if we didn't do Schutzhund I can tell you any of our dogs would be great in some other venue, obedience competition or agility, whatever. 
Since you aren't in a hurry you can find a breeder who understands what you are looking for. The breeder we have used is very open minded about buyers. They make sure the dog will have a good life first and foremost, and then match the dog to the needs and abilities of the buyer. First time buyer or experienced buyer doesnt really matter as long as there is a pup to suit the match. Go to a club in your area if you can and watch some of the dogs work. If you see one you like the overall looks and temperament, ask the owner. Most people are happy to talk with you about their dog, especially if they can see you admire the dog (just don't interrupt training ).
Good luck!


----------



## whiferdill (Dec 30, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your replies and reassurances, I appreciate them immensely.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Since you are interested in Schutzhund, I would go out and watch and learn at a club (or clubs if you have more than 1 by you) as much as you can! Good luck!


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

You will do fine. This is my first "purchased" german shepherd and he is working line. He is a wonderful dog! Actually been easier to raise than my collie mix as he is so much more stable in the mind. 

Just research and know what type dog you like. Try to meet lots of them. Try to meet some offspring of the lines you "think" you like to verify what you are after.

I choose my puppy based on some dogs I had met that I really liked, and then I liked the sire/dam in person very much as well. 

ONe thing in training that surprised me was all the alerting/barking at everything. This is a part of the breed and you need to be able to heavily socialize (think time consuming) and be proactive as in aware, so you can extinquish that behavior. Lots of well -timed.." lets look over here instead". Well, you wont extinquish it, but have that behavior under your disernment, not theirs..lol

Have fun researching!

Oh, and I get to hang out with Ozzy Barnero every weekend!


----------



## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

You'll find that having grown up with dogs and horses, so much of your past experience will transfer over and help you understand what you're seeing in your own dog. As said above, find a good club, and ask if you can visit. There's alot of learning that comes from watching. I also tell our newer handlers to practice routine, ball handling, etc. without their dog first. You'll also be more adept at line handling due to past horse experience.
Sue


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Welcome to the board! What kind of horses do you have/show???? Where are you in PA? Being a horse person really gives you a good foundation to raise and train a WL GSD I think (have been one myself for most of my life)....

There are working line dogs who are mass bred and more suitable for pets than for training, and there are working line dogs who are bred for such extreme drive that they are hard to live with as a normal dog...the trick is finding that litter that is bred to work, but makes great companion dogs as well because they are solid, stable and not so over the top that they cannot settle.....dogs that are balanced and bred for great temperament first, and working drives a given......I know it seems that I place my pups according to owners goals and temperaments - and it seems that the people all gung ho for work end up not being committed, and the pet people end up wanting to do schutzhund!!! So the litters have to be balanced!

Lee


----------



## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> .I know it seems that I place my pups according to owners goals and temperaments - and it seems that the people all gung ho for work end up not being committed, and the pet people end up wanting to do schutzhund!!! So the litters have to be balanced!
> 
> Lee


LOL, we find that at the Schutzhund club as well. People that buy a pup to work come out to the club for a bit and then flake out. Whereas the people who got a pup from random lines get all excited and train, train, train! Hard to hit that balance I guess.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I am a first time owner, I have a WL GSD. It's not extremely hard, I've made plenty of mistakes, but so do people that are on their 10th GSD so its not that big of a deal. I do AKC obedience, rally, and now starting agility. I love Schutzhund, I've gone to trials, I've done my research but the reality was that I just didn't have the time to commit to something like that. With the nearest club being an hour away, and the training schedule being very rigorous I knew that I couldn't give up all of Sunday to do that.

I joined a GSD club that focuses on AKC stuff and I'm loving it. I'm definitely one of the more involved people (especially younger people). I've been getting pushed by a few members to try Schutzhund but I know the time commitment and they understand that I just have other things going on in my life currently (mostly work).


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Oh and we want to know what kind of horses? I have shown/raised welsh ponies and shown hunters..you are in hunter country.so just curious!


----------



## whiferdill (Dec 30, 2011)

ponyfarm said:


> Oh and we want to know what kind of horses? I have shown/raised welsh ponies and shown hunters..you are in hunter country.so just curious!


My family breeds Connemaras. Grew up eventing. Did hunter-jumper in college (undergrad) currently horseless in grad school. Was going to bring my best girl with me then saw the price of board around where school is  she can stay home for free and is currently leased.


----------



## whiferdill (Dec 30, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Welcome to the board! What kind of horses do you have/show???? Where are you in PA? Being a horse person really gives you a good foundation to raise and train a WL GSD I think (have been one myself for most of my life)....
> 
> There are working line dogs who are mass bred and more suitable for pets than for training, and there are working line dogs who are bred for such extreme drive that they are hard to live with as a normal dog...the trick is finding that litter that is bred to work, but makes great companion dogs as well because they are solid, stable and not so over the top that they cannot settle.....dogs that are balanced and bred for great temperament first, and working drives a given......I know it seems that I place my pups according to owners goals and temperaments - and it seems that the people all gung ho for work end up not being committed, and the pet people end up wanting to do schutzhund!!! So the litters have to be balanced!
> 
> Lee


Family breeds, trains and shows Connemaras. I'm living just outside Philly and going to grad school at the moment. 

Connemaras are great because they do everything and will do their best at anything they are pointed at. Also crazy smart. But in the 'often smarter than their owners way.' 

I think one of the reasons I got interested in GSDs after being around and meeting some is that they are so versatile and no matter what I want to do with my dog (well almost) there's a high chance of them doing well at it. Remind me of my Connies in that way.


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

whiferdill said:


> My family breeds Connemaras. Grew up eventing. Did hunter-jumper in college (undergrad) currently horseless in grad school. Was going to bring my best girl with me then saw the price of board around where school is  she can stay home for free and is currently leased.


 
Famous connemaras..my sister trained and now has retired Navigator..you know him?


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

They are cool little horses....to bad you aren't in Pittsburgh! I have a Bonjour mare (crossbred) that is an eventing machine....and I don't ride! She carts around pony club kids and gets out to show once in a while - has done real well at every level - from local hunter/jumper to events at the Horse Park....I really cannot ride now with a bum leg from car accident....and can barely train....luckily, my 3 K pups are all with friends on partnerships doing herding and schutzhund!

Lee


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Aim high!!! I see a lot of people insist they need a medium drive dog, or a showline instead of a working line dog, but if you want to do all those activities then get the dog for it. Get an active working line with nice drives! You will be fine. My first dog ever was a working line GSD.


----------



## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

I think you will be fine  You have already had some excellent advice on here, so just want to say - be sure to put photos on when you bring your bundle of fun home


----------



## whiferdill (Dec 30, 2011)

ponyfarm said:


> Famous connemaras..my sister trained and now has retired Navigator..you know him?


Seabornes Navigator? Yep


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I don't think you'll have any problem with a working line dog. In some ways, energetic, high-drive, hard dogs are easier to train because they WANT a job, they love to work, and the hardness means they are more forgiving of our mistakes. Of course, they can also be challenging because of that same stuff. But if you join a SchH club you will have the support of many other trainers and you should be able to work through whatever you need to.

For your first dog, I'd look for one with rock-solid nerves, medium-high thresholds, and good biddability, as well as drive. I'd avoid anything with a lot of sharpness and low thresholds; those dogs can perform well in sport with the right trainer/handler, but can be hard to manage at home and in public.

Oh, and if you don't know what terms like "hardness", "sharpness", and "thresholds" and mean, please ask.


----------



## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

I'm a newby to this forum, and I'm sure others here have more schutzhund experience than me (I did it pretty seriously for about a year and a half and got a BH which is a very basic obedience test).

However, I've spent a lot of time speaking with more experienced people and trying to become more knowledgeable about the sport. As others have said, in many ways a working line GS will be easier to train. 

Moreover, lots of GS's just don't have the drive or temperment for Schutzhund so you really should deal with a breeder who has knowledge and experience in the sport if this is something you want to do. I can't tell you how many times people would come by our club with their dog interested in doing Schutzhund only to be sent away by the trainer because a hard stare would make their dog cower or because the dog had zero prey drive.

Also, it is a really good thing that you are honest about your abilities. A knowledgeable breeder should be able to match you up with a dog that matches your abilities, particularly since you aren't looking to compete in the Nationals next year.

It's also a really good idea to go to a couple of Schutzhund clubs before you buy a pup. This will not only help you get a feel for the sport, but members might be able to point you in the right direction to find a good local breeder.


----------



## Omar Little (Feb 24, 2013)

Sounds like you're willing to do the research and make the right choices, that's more than most, I think you'll be fine  I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. It's pretty overwhelming, but the more I learn, the more confident I am that I'll be able to pull off a well trained working line gsd as a relative newb. I'm also doing this all from PA, we should share notes down the road


----------



## magnolia95 (Feb 27, 2013)

Freestep said:


> Oh, and if you don't know what terms like "hardness", "sharpness", and "thresholds" and mean, please ask.


This thread asks the exact question I have. Newbie, wanting to do Schutzhund, never had a GSD before. So just joining in to ask - what DO those terms mean exactly? I have my own idea but would love to hear an official explanation!


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

magnolia95 said:


> This thread asks the exact question I have. Newbie, wanting to do Schutzhund, never had a GSD before. So just joining in to ask - what DO those terms mean exactly? I have my own idea but would love to hear an official explanation!


+1 to that -- and thanks to the OP for starting this thread, as I'm in much the same situation (even down to being in Philly!).

I'm new to GSDs but not to dogs (currently own/compete with a GSD mix and an Akita mix; have fostered almost 20 mutts of various types and one purebred border collie; do part-time work as a pet dog trainer and rehab shelter dogs, so I'm familiar with a certain range of behavioral issues, although there are some I steer away from because I'm not qualified to handle those things). I actively compete in Rally and am about to start obedience; in the past I've done canine musical freestyle and trick dog.

I'm thinking of getting a working-line GSD when my current dog retires, which is hopefully still quite a few years down the line, since he's only 3 now. I want to compete at the regional/national level, and while my dog can do that in Rally, a plethora of psychological and physical issues make it very difficult for him to compete in other sports. Also, I'd like to try out Schutzhund and agility, which my current dog cannot do at all. While I'm dedicated to rescue and will probably always have a shelter mutt in the house, I also recognize that it's going to be very hard to find a shelter dog with the right combination of traits I'm looking for in a sport partner. So: time to dive into the world of purebreds!

I've been in touch with a couple of breeders who seem very knowledgeable and approachable (in fact, it's one of them who pointed me to this forum!), and I'm trying to learn more about whether a working-line dog is the right fit for my home. I haven't seen any at the competition events I've done so far (weird for one of the most popular breeds in the U.S., although maybe not so weird considering a lot of their owners seem to gravitate exclusively to protection sports), and while I've met a few BYB GSDs, that's really not the same thing.

Malinois are too intense for me; I can't handle that energy level in a yard-less condo smack in the middle of Philadelphia. Tervuren seem more reasonable (although I've only met three, so a small sample size could be skewing that a bit). I admire Dobies' elegance greatly, but the health problems and relatively short lifespans in that breed have me a little leery of going in that direction. And Rotties, while great dogs, just ain't my style.

Of all the major Schutzhund breeds, then, the GSD seems like the best choice.

But I have zero actual firsthand experience with working-line dogs in this breed, so here I am, reading up and trying to learn more.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This link has quite a few good articles to jumpstart you! 
Schutzhund Village


----------



## Renofan2 (Aug 27, 2010)

Wow, so many newbies in Philly area, looking to get into WL gsd's and schutzhund. It is great that you are doing a lot of research first. There are several clubs in your area and good trainers. I belong to Upper Bucks Schutzhund Club in Harleysville, PA. Lehigh Valley Schtuzhund Club is about 45 minutes from us. Jim Hill also trains 3 days per week in Schutzhund (Tylersport) and is an excellent trainer to learn the sport and also find a good wl gsd pup when you are ready. If interested PM me, I will be happy to provide you with contact information. Too bad I didn't read this post a few weeks ago as you could have come out to our Schutzhund Olympics fundraiser and met people from the local clubs all in one place. 

Cheryl


----------



## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks for the links and the tips about clubs to check out!

I would definitely LOVE to come watch a training session or trialing event whenever you have one. Please let me know! I haven't had the chance to watch working GSDs in action (like I said, for whatever reason, I just don't see them in Rally -- maybe it's that I do World Cynosport instead of AKC, but that can't be all of it; after all, I see Malinois and Tervs who have SchH/IPO titles, but never GSDs!) and am really dying to get to meet a couple and hear about them firsthand.


----------



## Renofan2 (Aug 27, 2010)

Mercial - contact JIm Hill and see if you could come out and watch. At any given training day you can see high level dogs train to club level dogs like me. You can learn a lot by spending time watching training sessions, etc. Lehigh has a trial the end of May - memorial day weekend. Cheryl


----------



## 2020palm (May 30, 2020)

whiferdill said:


> Been lurking around the forums for a few months - learning as much as I can about everything. I'm still a few years off from getting my first GSD between school and personal stuff going on. I've been looking at breeders and narrowing down who appeal to me and whatnot.
> 
> I've also fallen a bit in love with Schutzhund and have spent a bit too much time procrastinating on papers by watching videos (Ozzy Barnero...)
> 
> ...


Just think of a GSD as a yearling colt! You have to let them know who’s in charge and start training the day you get them. You don’t allow bad manners because bad manners can get someone in trouble. You’ll be fine if you’ve been around horse breeding barns. Horses have teeth too and they can kill you with a kick. My take away from my DDR GSD is that sometimes they think they know better than you and occasionally question your decisions. Sometimes they may know better! You’ll love it. Good around the horses too.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Closing, 2012 thread.


----------

