# Working dog Lifestyle



## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

So I've been training with Sean Rivera for about a month now. Great trainer. Today I showed up for training about 45 mins early and took my dog walking and playing ball. He saw me playing with him and told me that I need to keep him caged up until it was time to train. So that way he can exert all his physical and mental energy into training. Even when I'm home, if I plan on doing a session with him I need to have him caged up a few hours prior to the session. It all makes since and that's what I'm going to start doing from now on but I would like to know what do you allow your working dog to do. Can he or she roam the house, do you let it sleep with you or lay on the couch, what is a typical day like for your working dog. Keep in my, my pup is only 4 months old.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I have not been keeping up with the threads you post, what are you doing with your boy?


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

My dog is a pet first who happens to be a working line who trains Schutzhund. 

He roams the house freely, sleeps wherever he wants, sits on the couch if he wants.

The only thing I do differently on training day is skip his breakfast. I can understand not playing before training.



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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Everyone has different opinions on this. Here is mine. 

My dogs are first and foremost my pets. Yes, they are working and sport dogs as well, but primarily my pets. They get to be loose in my house when I am home, they sleep on my bed, on the couch, play with each other. 

If I have a training planned, they get some crate time. That could be the car ride to training, or crated at home. In between training sessions, when out at training, they are crated. It helps them rest and focus their energy on what we will be doing. 

There are those that believe in enhancing, creating, channeling drive through deprivation. It can be very effective. It just depends on what your goals are for the dog. 

I agree with your trainer that you should not be out walking and playing with your pup directly prior to a big training session. You want the pup fresh and ready to learn. Not tired and distracted by all the things moments ago he was allowed to smell and look at. 

At home, it's up to you. One thing I do, if I plan on training, is let pup out if crate to go potty, then back into crate for 30-45 minutes, then back out to train, then back in crate for a bit, then out for a walk and free ball play. Separate out what you are doing, to be clear to the puppy, that each thing is something different. 

The only time I use deprivation, is when my make gets more focused on playing with other dogs, then I limit his free time with my other dogs and bring more fun to training. So he remembers that I am the most fun thing. Not his housemates. I have not had to do this for a while, as he has matured, his attitude has changed a lot. He still enjoys playing with them, but will stop when told and does not get distracted, when training. 




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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I have not been keeping up with the threads you post, what are you doing with your boy?


So far we've just been working with Sean. We graduated a puppy socialization class last week which was cool. They did a little bit of obedience but it wasn't sport or anything so we never really tried to get anything from it except the socialization. But we started IPO obedience. I didn't realize and probably would never have realized how detailed it was until I started training with Sean. Meiko is learning quickly too, just basic stuff such as sit, down, stand, heal, front engagement lol just pretty much all the basics. Going from the sit position to the stand was probably the hardest thing. But we have it now. Of course none of this is perfect but it's definitely getting better. We won't start any bit work until his adult teeth come in. But I can definitely say im satisfied with the training so far.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Everyone has different opinions on this. Here is mine.
> 
> My dogs are first and foremost my pets. Yes, they are working and sport dogs as well, but primarily my pets. They get to be loose in my house when I am home, they sleep on my bed, on the couch, play with each other.
> 
> ...


Yeah he only told me to keep him crated before any sessions. But I was just wondering how much free time you guys gave your dogs. I'm pretty sure there are people who only allow their dogs out for potty breaks and training. Especially people with like 10+ dogs.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The dog I train in IPO is companion first, we train in the sport for enjoyment, not so much for podium,regional or national level competition.

He has freedom in the house, with my other dogs and the only time he is crated is on training days(in the vehicle all day long) 
Crating AFTER a training session is very important, the dog needs some downtime to process what the session was about. I wouldn't do a whole lot of rewarding play/fetch right after a session if there was important learning or progress going on. End it on a good note, and crate the dog up for quiet time.
I agree with not playing before a training session as well, but as soon as I get my dog out of the crate, we are playing on our way to the field(for obedience).
I cue the dog as I am bringing him out of the crate for what we'll be doing. That way the dog will get into the mode right then and there. 
I don't withhold food either. My dog will start barfing bile if he misses meals, so I may give a smaller portion before we leave to track, and he'll get the rest after tracking.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

When Titan and I were very active in SAR he was still a companion... no crates unless needed for whatever reason, roamed the house, went to dog parks, walks, runs, pet stores, sleeps in my room in his bed, plays outside, all that stuff. It didn't diminish his drive at all. He knew work meant work. Even all the MWD I have come into contact with, be it home or deployed, had an off time. I got to play with one regularly on her off hours when I was recently in Africa. 

I think that it all depends on you and your training and trainer. I am no expert, but that's just my opinion.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I dont play with my dog or do much with her the day before training. I crate her plenty, she is very busy in the house. Also very independent so for training purposes the crate promotes engagement and focus when she is out.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My working dogs rotate between free time and crate time. When they are loose they can sleep on the furniture or on the bed, get table scraps, follow me around when I work outside, etc. If everyone got along they would probably all be out all the time except on training days. I find that as long as they hang with me, run around with me and not just have free time with their buddies, I have never had an issue with engagement.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

My dogs are pretty much always with me. 2 are only crated at the field. I don't believe deprivation is necessary to have the dog "give it their all". We certainly have no issues with drive.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

My two dogs are our companions first, competition/working dogs second. My helper tells me to save "play time" for after training so that Hunter is full energy for our training, but that's the extent of it. Not that Hunter ever loses drive, but, it makes sense. Maybe that is what your trainer meant?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

To be clear, SOME dogs probably do need the deprivation, just not all... And if you must always crate for long periods to get acceptable performance, you have some questions to ask yourself


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Airman1stclass said:


> So I've been training with Sean Rivera for about a month now. Great trainer. Today I showed up for training about 45 mins early and took my dog walking and playing ball. He saw me playing with him and told me that I need to keep him caged up until it was time to train. So that way he can exert all his physical and mental energy into training. Even when I'm home, if I plan on doing a session with him I need to have him caged up a few hours prior to the session. It all makes since and that's what I'm going to start doing from now on but I would like to know what do you allow your working dog to do. Can he or she roam the house, do you let it sleep with you or lay on the couch, what is a typical day like for your working dog. Keep in my, my pup is only 4 months old.


My dogs are my companions first and foremost. Other than puppies/young dogs/fosters that are still learning the boundaries and house manners, everyone has free reign of the house, together, at all times. My adults sleep on the couches, chairs, bed, and are free to roam as they please. They also have free reign in the yard though I either have them in or out since I don't like mud/dirt being tracked in the house constantly.

When I was doing SchH, I often took my dogs out for some free time. Just use common sense. I would not play fetch for 30 minutes before training a phase, you want to save the energy. However I would walk my dogs off leash away from other people/dogs to give them potty breaks and let them stretch their legs.

Often my dogs are crated/rested before and after training simply as a function of distance. For example if I train with a Schutzhund club it takes me 1.5-3 hours to get there, so the dog has at least that much rest time. I work full time so my dogs have been resting all day by the time I get home to work them or play with them.

I don't force arbitrary rest or crate time in order to maximize drive though, I've never found I needed it and my dogs are not the "extreme" drive dogs either. They love to work and train and have plenty of drive and energy when it's time to go. Personally, if I felt my dog would not engage or have enough drive unless he was deprived of freedom, food, toys, contact with me, etc., I'd pick something more fun to do with that dog.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The crating thing is more important early on when you are trying to get a dog more and more jacked up for the work. If your dog isn't super drivey it can be a good way to condition them to be monsters during training. Its a good way to get them super into a toy based reward system too. It isn't something you necessarily have to maintain for the life of the dog once you have them sold on the reward games and training though. When that time comes you will know it.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

hunterisgreat said:


> To be clear, SOME dogs probably do need the deprivation, just not all... And if you must always crate for long periods to get acceptable performance, you have some questions to ask yourself


Basically this. Much wisdom here.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

One other thing though. If you go that deprivation route make sure you take time to just chill with the dog outside of training too. Otherwise you end up with a dog that conditions to see you as a sign its go time and cant calm down outside of the crate in your presence. More of a problem with mals but gsds can get that way too.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all that information. I was asking my trainer why isn't my dog as drivey as others. Especially with who his parents are and his pedigree. He told mr he is still pretty young, not all dogs mature the same rate and some dogs take longer to hit that really drivey period and some never get like that. For now we work with what we have.


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## simba405 (Mar 14, 2013)

My dogs drives really kicked in around 6 months old. Drives mature differently in different dogs. I would trust the pedigree and trainer.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Our 4 year old female is a large working dog, 90lbs. Since we usually had someone home with her as a puppy, she usually was not crated unless she was left alone or we needed a break and at night for a couple months. She has not been crated as an adult and has free roam of the house and the sofa. She doesn't like going on beds or sleeping with us. She has never been destructive.

When she was younger I would wake up early, do about 5-10 minutes of training in the empty DMV lot behind us, then would have her fetch a ball to burn some energy. We might do training throughout the day, but again only for 5 minutes. When we did formal training classes, I would not crate her prior to them, I'd basically keep the normal routine a 20-25 minute walk in the morning. Class was at 10 or 11am.

Now that Molly is well trained, she gets to be a junk yard dog and comes to work with me. We have an enclosed paved yard where she can hunt feral cats and watch the homeless junkies pass by our rear fence. When at home, my daughter still plays scent searching games with her, and her job is also to protect our cat from the vacuum. As your dog gets older you'll find he'll enjoy having a job, even if its carrying in some mail or a grocery item for you, carrying a toy in it's mouth on a walk, being able to have a good view to "guard", be a watchdog and places to "check", to make sure there is nothing sinister going in the closets, dark alleys or behind bushes.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think deprivation is more of a training method that certain seems to get the desired result for certain people than a "need" for the dog. I do many dog sports and in some of them, we have people that come in with an older, overweight, zero drive pet dog and want to do the sport and we are able to motivate these dogs and get them engaging and actively competing in a sport without any sort of deprivation (other than meals if the dog is fat!). If we can compete with dogs like this I see no reason why any GSD - a breed known for it's drive, energy, desire to work, focus on the handler - would *need* deprivation in order to train and perform. I know it's done quite a bit and usually I see it done with dogs that I personally don't think need it at all (often dogs that IMO have too much drive and/or are just really hyper, edgy dogs), but I tend to call it like it is. Some people like to train and manage their dogs that way, I guess it works for them.


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

I don't deprive my buddy of anything to get the happy focus" he just knows" when we finish training" happy time" play " play " but wait a minute he was happy working" training" humm! Play" play" serious I justake it fun" and extra special after.
Just how I do it. Bill

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)




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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Agree Jane! Love you can't go wrong. Bill

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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Some dogs you need to teach to step on the gas some you need to teach to pump the brakes. I found more effective ways of building a dog, but that can certainly be part of the equation.


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## Airman1stclass (Jan 12, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Some dogs you need to teach to step on the gas some you need to teach to pump the brakes. I found more effective ways of building a dog, but that can certainly be part of the equation.


I would sure love to step on the gas for my dog. But he is only a puppy. So hopefully he'll develop more into an intense focused dog. And this is my first GSD so of course I don't know how to do develop those things. His obedience has definitely improved from the first time I brought him to Sean compared to now.


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## DTS (Oct 19, 2010)

My trainer told me to pick up all the toys and only have the toys out when I am playing with him and to crate before training. 
Titan can go all day long. He will play with toys and our female all day long. 
I cannot physically or mentally play with him all day. I also don't have the time with my crazy work schedule. So I made a compromise... The toys stay out for my sanity. And I have 2 awesome balls that he goes absolutely bonkers for and only bring them out when we train.
He is crated on the way to training and while the other dogs train. 
I also train right when I get home from work so he's been in the crate all day. 
Titan is a pet first. I couldn't handle a "real" working dog.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Airman1stclass said:


> I would sure love to step on the gas for my dog. But he is only a puppy. So hopefully he'll develop more into an intense focused dog. And this is my first GSD so of course I don't know how to do develop those things. His obedience has definitely improved from the first time I brought him to Sean compared to now.


In about 5 months, we'll see if you still stick to your statement! I thought I had the perfectly trained puppy until adolescence hit. Your pup is still young, enjoy this time.
Our dog was such a handful from about 9-10 months old. Even the breeder who also did training got exasperated with her and I thought, you made her, you should know how to handle her. Anyway with consistent training, patience, love and respect it all worked out.


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