# Am I stupid for not wanting to crate train?



## jetbootz (Apr 7, 2012)

Hi guys,

As the title of this thread suggests, I've been pondering for a while now over the whole crate training thing. I've read everything and I think I understand what it is for, but still I find myself not wanting to do this to my pup.

I know how destructive puppies can be, which is why I have a dedicated room under my house for the pup (It's a queenslander styled australian house, with the main house almost raised on stilts and the laundry etc under the house. Pretty strange when I think about it now haha). The room is made entirely from brick and concrete, and is as puppy-proof as any room is going to get. It's well ventilated, plenty of light, nice and cool and protected. 

I plan on putting her in here whenever I have to leave the house, and gradually as she grows I will change it up from sleeping inside the house in a dedicated fenced off puppy area in my room I have created, to this room. This is so she will be used to sleeping inside and outside so she doesn't become a sook if she has to sleep outside in the future.

Am I completely wrong for wanting to do this? Everyone on this forum seems to speak of crate training like its the law. I just was hoping to get some feedback on my non-crate plans and hopefully I can be steered in the right direction


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

It would seem to me, it would be harder to house train her. She won't want to relieve herself in the crate, but there won't be any pressure on her to control herself in a regular sized room. Our pup is 10 months, we used the crate only when we were gone and at night. She is now free to roam day or night..she's been trustworthy for over a month now..


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## jetbootz (Apr 7, 2012)

See I had considered the house training issue. What I had planned on doing is blocking off a fair portion of the room so there really isn't that much room to find a corner to pee in. As she grew and became more confident, I would slowly increase the area. I accept that she won't learn as quickly, but I can't picture this being a complete failure.


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## Lilylongshanks (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm with you on this one. We decided not to crate Otis. When we are out he is restricted to the kitchen, which is a large room with plenty of light, shared with 2 cats. Ok, so toilet training probably took an extra few weeks but we now have a well behaved trustworthy dog who has never been in a crate. Your arrangement sounds fine to me. I know crate training is seen as almost obligatory, but having brought up 2 kids and seen the "fashions" that come and go with child- rearing it seems to me that dog training is subject to the same kind of trends, crate training being one of them.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I grew up before crate training was popular and I completely believe in it as we have done it both ways and prefer the results from crate training.

That said if you choose the non crate option consider the crate trained dog accepts the crate at the vet, the crate in the car, the crate as confinement after an injury,as just a normal part of life and is not freaked out about it. So I would still thing SOME level of crate training to be very desirable.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't consider crate training to be a trend. It makes scense to me so I will always do it. It just seems easier and I buy into the benefits. But if you don't believe in it and have a plan then that is ok too.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

No, you do what works for you. 

For me though, even if I don't regularly contain my adult dogs in a crate at home, I need to do crate training for their safety if they ever get hurt or sick and need to be kept calm and not able to move a lot. Also, my dogs travel a LOT so they are always kenneled/crated in the dog van for their safety and mine. At shows and large events, dogs are required to be crated, not just running loose and it gets way to hot to have a dog enclosed in a vehicle. So for me, crate training is an absolute must even though my dogs "graduate" and are free in my house while I'm gone and sleep on my bed. 

FWIW I've recently dealt with a dog that had an injury and infection and had to remain crated for some time on vet's orders in order to properly heal. If you don't introduce the crate right, you can't just toss a sick or injured dog in and expect them to be relaxed.


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## Whiteboy (Jul 19, 2011)

i crate trained stryker as a pup but as he got older we turned the laundry room into a dog room with a dog door to the back yard. he seems to like this more and i dont feel bad putting him in a big closed off room with a good sized yard for a few hours. i know its not but to me it just seems cruel to keep a dog in a confined space for more than a hour. just my 1.5 cents


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I used to work at a vet's office. There was a dog that came in that had never been in a crate, she flipped out and dug and bit the bars and really was stressed. By the time the owner came to get her, she had bloodied both her front feet, ripped several toenails along with bruising/cutting in between the toes and was a drooling, shaking mess. She did not have separation anxiety, just had never even seen a crate before.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Like others have said, crate train for the time they may have to spend at the vets, or if injured and must be crated. Doesn't mean you have to use it now, but the crate will be available for refreshing the training, and if (hopefully not) your dog has to use it due to injury.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

My current male, Ron, who is now 2 1/2 years old was not traditionally crate trained. By that I mean I didn't use a crate in the house. The day he came home to live with us (he was 8 weeks old) I discovered the crate I was intending to use was unusable. I decided I had to let him sleep loose in my bedroom that first night and would set my alarm to take him out during the night. I knew I'd just have to live with the consequences in the morning. We made it through that night with no accidents so I decided to continue. He amazingly made it through puppyhood and adolescence and never had an accident in the house or chewed up a single thing. Now having said that, I did use a crate in other places. I have one in the car for safety reasons, he learned to chill in a crate in the daycare. The skill of being crate trained is extremely useful in so many situations. At Schutzhund he of course has to wait in a crate for his turn and I have also had to crate him at a friend's house once or twice when I had to go out of town unexpectedly. 
So while it doesn't have to be the way you housetrain a puppy, it is still a VERY valuable part of training. 
I had a potential new client call recently, they have 2 Golden Retrievers that were crate trained as little pups but they hadn't used a crate in years. The wife had a health emergency and they had to board the dogs. They tried to have a friend watch them but since they weren't crate trained the friend had to say no since she had no way to separate the dogs from hers while she was out. We had to say no since the dogs we board all sleep in crates at night (they spend the day out playing in the daycare). They ended up having to board at the vet's which the one dog HATES. He ended up being medicated the whole time he was there to keep him from hurting himself. Needless to say when the crisis was over they ended up spending time (and money) retraining them to accept and settle in a crate. Which is much more difficult with adult dogs.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Jetbootz

Do what you feel is right for you. I don't use a crate - to tell you the truth until I joined a forum just over a year ago - I'd never really heard of them.

All our dogs over the years have had more or less the run of the house from the start, without any major problems. 

As long as you have a two or three weeks off work to concentrate on house training, and getting your puppy used to being left for very short periods - I don't really understand why they're needed, unless you have a fearful dog or one who suffers from seperation anxiety. 

That being said, I understand it could be useful to desensitize your dog to one, for the vets maybe. 
____________________
Sue


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I crate train all of my dogs. I also train them to be calm and quiet when tied to a tree. I also train them not to jump out of the bed of my truck, or the bed of our UTV. I also train them to be quiet if I shut them up in a room alone. 

Because I live on the Gulf Coast, I never know when due to adverse weather conditions I'll have to resort to last ditch means to keep my dogs safe. During Ike, this really paid off as I had all the dogs crated in my hallway. That was the safest area in my home. If we had decided to flee and went to a government facility, the dogs would have been required to remain crated. 

My dogs never travel in our vehicle unless crated. But, I want to know if something ever happened, I can command them to the back of the truck and know they aren't going to move. 

I would never leave a dog tied to a tree. But, you never know when you might HAVE to. 

I have and injured dogs who have to be crated. They are calm and quiet in the crate. If they are ever ill and have to stay at the clinic, they will already have a foundation learned of staying quiet in a crate. 

I have an older Golden who loves his dog house. I can put his dog house in a large run and he is happy as a clam. Remove the dog house and he is upset, runs the fence and howls. 

Crate training (to me) is just a part of raising your pup. It doesn't mean you have to leave them in a crate. It just means you're adding crate training in your effort to build a solid foundation.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Lilie said:


> Crate training (to me) is just a part of raising your pup. It doesn't mean you have to leave them in a crate. It just means you're adding crate training in your effort to build a solid foundation.


That sums it up for me.
Crate training provides another 'dimension' for the dog to accept as normal.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

It sounds ideal to me. People did just fine before the trend to crating. Crates are conveniences for the owner and aren't ideal for the dog. We tend to get too dependent on crates and use them far beyond the puppy stage. I'm guilty of using or maybe overusing myself. I just read an article written by an orthopaedic vet that suggested the huge increase in ACL injuries is probably due to confinement of dogs in crates and small kennels. Who knows, just something to think about.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I crate trained my dogs, but they aren't crated on a regular basis. They were both left free in the house around 5 or 6 months old. However, like others have said, it's important for a dog to accept being crated and understand it. If they ever have to have surgery, they will be crated at the vet's office. If they're taken to the groomer they'll probably be crated while waiting their turn. If they're injured or have surgery they'll need to be crated during recovery. These are all really terrible times to be introduced to a crate for the very first time.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The key words are *crate training*, crates are used for just that, but I have found that dogs enjoy their crates. My oldest dog wasn't crate trained but when she wants to relax she goes into the crate on her own and lays down.I have done it both ways and using the crate is more effective/efficient. I don't like the idea of them being confined, but when I weighed the options as far as safety, the crate won. I don't use it permanently, as soon as the dog can be trusted they are free to go anywhere they choose.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I've raised several puppies I've the years. Some were crate trained, others not. Never had any problems with the non crate trained dogs. (Meaning I never wished I had crate trained them.)

My current dog doesn't do crates. But she can be confined in an x pen with no issues.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

After two months of allowing Rocky to "free roam" my bedroom while I was at school or the gym, I discovered that he was ignoring me more and being less responsive to commands.

I pulled out the crate, and crated him every other time I left. No increase/ decrease in training, but he listens to me and is very attentive.

-------------
I feel as if crate training is the safest way. What if you get home and your little puppy somehow managed to find a wire and electrocuted themselves? Or tore apart something that was "indistructable" and choked on it?

Crate training prevents a small puppy from having access to things they do not know are bad.
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NO ONE will ever want to babysit your dog if it isn't crate trained, and no vet will want to board it at their facility. I babysat my friends beagle that had never seen a crate before but I didn't trust in my house...when I got home I had 3 noise warnings from my apartment on my door (in a ONE HOUR span). The dog was in shock, panting, very scared.

Crate train your dog. Easiest way.


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## TimberGSD2 (Nov 8, 2011)

Even though Kya has not been confined to a crate in 9 years she still has one and will be seen sleeping in it on a daily basis. Phinneas does not have to be crated but will actually put himself away in his crate when he wants to relax and get away. He will literally open the door, walk in and shut it behind him. He loves his crate. Doesn't need to be confined there but it's "his" space. 

I agree that if confining them to the crate is not for you, that's your preference, but make sure your dog CAN be crated. As others have said, and I work in an emergency animal hospital, if your dog doesn't know how to be quiet in a crate, medically that can cause an issue in a hospital environment.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I grew up before crate training was popular and I completely believe in it as we have done it both ways and prefer the results from crate training.
> 
> That said if you choose the non crate option consider the crate trained dog accepts the crate at the vet, the crate in the car, the crate as confinement after an injury,as just a normal part of life and is not freaked out about it. So I would still thing SOME level of crate training to be very desirable.


Gotta agree with Jocoyn. Our first few dogs were not crate trained, don't even remember having crates back then but since I've learned it, I wouldn't do it any other way. It makes traveling or vet appointments so much easier. Unlike a lot of people I only crate at night. It is their safe spot, a place to sleep and be calm. I do not feed, or allow play in the crate.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I never even thought of crate training my dogs until my current dog and I never had any issues that I couldnt work through.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I will always crate train too. We didn't have a crate with Sneaker (1986-2000) but have used them ever since. My dogs do not spend all day in a crate and never have, but they do sleep in them. They go in voluntarily, and stay calm and quiet all night, even if I sleep in on the weekend. They will both also go take naps in their crates when we're home so, they obviously like having their own comfy dens. It makes housetraining easier, it keeps puppies safe from chewing up the house and ingesting stuff that can harm them.

But as others mentioned, there are other times where it's beneficial too, such as at the vet's office, or if you're traveling. Halo is the only dog at flyball practice that lays quietly in her crate until it's time to get out on the field and play. She does the same when we take her dock diving. It's a soft crate that she could easily chew her way out of if she tried, but she doesn't because she's comfortable hanging out in a crate. 

We're spending a weekend in June at a B & B with a bunch of my husband's family, and we'll be taking the dogs. When I made the reservations the owner asked about the them - how much do they weigh, are they on flea control, and are they crate trained. We took Dena at 8 or 9 months old on a week long trip up to Oregon and Washington, and she spent several nights in hotels and several nights at friends and relatives houses. I can't even imagine trying something like that if she weren't crate trained.


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## sabledog (Mar 13, 2012)

I can't imagine not having a dog that's crate trained. My life would be a living ****.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I absolutely believe in crate training a puppy, mostly for the convenience of being able to confine them in a small area that's portable. Even my 1.5 year old poodle gets crated sometimes still


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## Pandora (Feb 29, 2012)

*Crate training*

Hah, there's definitely no law about it! Most of us, myself included, find that it makes it easier for the puppy to be house broken and also to learn good manners. Dogs do not want to soil their sleeping area, so if they are in a crate they will hold it until they are allowed outside. At that point you can even train your pup to eliminate in a certain area. I trained my GS to go in the leaves instead of in the grass where we walk and play. If your pup has a whole room to be loose in, you may not have great success with "potty training."
Because of the crate, our GS, now 3, never once chewed anything she shouldn't. She had one accident in the house which was our fault for being inattentive. 
She came to love her crate, going in there on her own to nap, sleep, chew. It was also useful for getting her to calm down when company came. She seemed actually disappointed when I decided the house was too tiny for the enormous crate, but with her bed right beside ours, she is happy.
It's your call, but you cannot easily undo behaviors learned from lack of crate training. My opinion is that well-behaved, well-trained dogs are the happiest. They are always in favor with their owners, know just what is expected of them and what their limitations are.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

> I just read an article written by an orthopaedic vet that suggested the huge increase in ACL injuries is probably due to confinement of dogs in crates and small kennels


I'd really like to see that article. It seems a little..... out there.


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## cmscott (Jun 29, 2011)

Crate training was the best thing I ever did. My 10month boy loves his crate and it made house breaking him a breeze. I fed him every meal in his crate from 8 weeks until he was about 5 months. If you make the crate a happy place, i.e. - never use the crate as a "time-out" and never make him go in when you are mad at him, it will be a huge tool for you later in life. One of his favorite games is seeing how fast he can run to his crate from other places in the house. Crate training = awesome.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

My dog has a nice 10 x 13 enclosed breezeway with sliders as 'her' room. She has a crate in the corner. About 1/3 of the time she lays outside, 1/3 she goes inside and 1/3 she lays on top. Her choice.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

jetbootz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> As the title of this thread suggests, I've been pondering for a while now over the whole crate training thing. I've read everything and I think I understand what it is for, but still I find myself not wanting to do this to my pup.
> 
> ...


Not stupid, but perhaps not considering everything. I think every puppy should be crate trained. The reason is not because you will be making them eat in the crate, sleep in the crate, and live in the crate until they are 2 or 3 or forever. But rather, there are times when a crate is very beneficial and the safest place for them to be. And there are other times that they must be crated and should not be freaked out just because of the confinement -- i.e. when your dog undergoes surgery, he will be crated by the vet while he recovers. In the car, a crate is the safest method of transport and comfortable for the dog.

When you are mopping the floor, cleaning his area, have visitors who are afraid of dogs. The crate is his home within the home where he can rest quiet if he needs to (such as recovering from surgery), or if there are people everywhere and he needs to just get away from it all. 

If someone is coming over to repair the furnace, or install a new water heater, the dog can be securely crated and the workmen need not worry about getting a hole chewed through the seat of their pants. Not that your dog will do that, but sometimes people who are there on business are not all that crazy about dogs, and some are way too crazy with respect to dogs. Crate the dog, and have nothing to report to the board after they leave -- much, much better in the long run. 

Crates are a tool. They can be misused. I do not like the idea of people putting a dog in a crate for 10 or 12 hours while they are at work, and then another 5-6 hours at night. In my opinion, that is more than half the dog's life, and people need to figure something better than that if they own a dog. But for house-training, which means keeping the puppy safe while unsupervised, until he learns where to potty and what things he should not chew on, and for safety while traveling, and for being boarded or receiving medical care, and even for a safe place of his own in the house where he can rest, I think crates are great.

As for house-training, it is impossible to house train a dog in a crate.


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## Rocky's mum (Apr 12, 2012)

I just had to add to this thread.

We got Rocky at 8 weeks old and had 3 crates prepared for his growth through puppyhood. First day at home, he went in it with the door open several times and when he fell asleep through the day I would lift him inside it and he was fine, even when he woke up. I religiously fed him in there and gave treats etc.

At night he SCREAMED for almost 5 hours without stopping for a breath, but I thought leave him, it will get better. Crate right next to me, he found his bark on the second night and boy did he use it. For the next 8 nights, the poor man howled, barked, cried and threw himself at the door. For concern of his health, our neighbours patience and our day jobs, we decide to see what would happen if we let him out in the kitchen (it's puppy proofed with locks on cupboard doors and stair gates). To our amazement the little man came out, layed on the floor next to his crate and we never heard a peep out of him til the next morning.

I started getting up every 2 hours, and now at 12 weeks, I get up just once and he has been a dream. He is housetrained, happier, sleeps more and when I go out of the house, he whimpers for about 2 minutes, then settles and either plays with his toys or sleeps. I know this as I have a network camera set up so I can monitor what he's up to when I'm in town etc. I am lucky that I can take him to work with me, but alas, we have never crated him since. He has a very small crate in the car which he goes in no problem every day to work and back, vets etc.

Long story, but just to give you some comfort that it can work. I set out to crate train as I truly thought it was best. That said, I have absolutely no regrets. If he eats my kitchen in a few months, then it's a good excuse for a new one:wild:


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I don't think it's mandatory, especially if you have a different space you want to use that is puppy proofed and you are able to subdivide. It does make housebreaking a little harder but I have had two dogs who weren't crate trained and both do fine at the vet, etc. I think you can follow the same protocols as you do with crate training (teaching a dog to go to a spot instead of into a crate) and it works just fine. 

In fact, Rafi is not crate trained because he came to me with barrier anxiety and separation anxiety. I worked him through it and he has travelled quite a bit with me and is fine being left in the back of my truck (a kennel type environment) or in someone else's vehicle or closed in a room in a house, etc. I had planned to crate train him and will crate train my next dog but he was harming himself in the crate so I went to Plan B. 

Once I counter conditioned him out of the SA I was able to leave him loose in the house without one problem, ever.


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## warpwr (Jan 13, 2011)

We used a tie-down instead of a crate.

It has the same effect though, it keeps them in one spot which they won't mess.
But once they're potty trained they pretty much have the run of our house and yard (dog door).
Here's what can and does happen when you do it our way, ha!








Besides that comforter, she's opened a couple of beer cans in the family room spraying everywhere, ripped up the back lawn, gotten into the garden beds and generally acted like _Marley and Me_. 
But we love her even with all her antics while we are out and she's getting more mature every day.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't crate train. I only crate if I absolutely have to go somewhere and nobody can watch the puppy AND i cant puppy proof an area.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I am all for crate-training. People have mentioned the numerous advantages, so I won't repeat those, but I'll add a couple I didn't see mentioned. 

*-- First --* I have an older dog who is in large part blind and I suspect, going deaf. She has a hard time. If we travel, get a motel, go stay at someone's home -- she's LOST. She could tumble down stairs, she could do anything. She has not been crated for many years, but she was crate trained, so if we are in such a situation, I can crate her for her own safety and it doesn't scare her. 

*--Second --* You never know when you are going to take in another dog. Or two. Or get a rescue. Or a stray. Or babysit someone's dog. Or something. Worse case scenario, you have dogs that don't get along and have to play a rotate n crate game. If you have such a situation, and neither is crate trained, what a horrible mess that could be.

Even if you are anti-crate, nothing bad can come of at least making the dog comfortable with a crate. It is no big deal to feed the dog in the crate, drop treats in there, put chewies in there, to build positive associations even if you don't intend to crate the dog.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I haven't read through all the responses...... but most.

I would say crate training is not really done in Australia like it is in the US.
I worked in vet clinics for 12 years and only knew of 2 clients that crate trained.....they were both show people......no one else did it.
People just don't seem to do it over here.....they usually just designate a room for the puppy as you are wanting to do.

As for being at the vets etc.....well over the years I can think of only a handful of dogs that didn't handle the cages well......and none of the dogs were crate trained.....maybe Aussie dogs are just more laid back 

It seems a very common thing on this forum.....but it is very uncommon over here so it is really just up to you. 
What you have suggested sounds perfectly fine to me and would be considered the "norm" down under......Good Luck


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

chelle said:


> I am all for crate-training. People have mentioned the numerous advantages, so I won't repeat those, but I'll add a couple I didn't see mentioned.
> 
> *-- First --* I have an older dog who is in large part blind and I suspect, going deaf. She has a hard time. If we travel, get a motel, go stay at someone's home -- she's LOST. She could tumble down stairs, she could do anything. She has not been crated for many years, but she was crate trained, so if we are in such a situation, I can crate her for her own safety and it doesn't scare her.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with this statement. Daisy got out of her crate because she HATED it. It's not that she wasn't used to it, she was in a crate while her previous owners were gone and at night (we got her at 6 weeks.) She absolutely went nuts. It was one of those cages that the front and back collapse in and it folds up. She knocked out a bunch of puppy teeth, tore off some nails, and had two small scratches on her. We came home, saw the blood ( there was quite a bit because of the teeth ) but didn't take her to a vet because there was no active bleeding and the cuts were no deeper than paper cuts. Fast forward a month- $1200 surgery because where one of those cuts was got infected (apparently, there was NO signs of infection and I cleaned and put antibiotic on it) and it ate away at her jaw. They weren't even sure if it would heal properly or if she would lose a portion of her jaw. Luckily, she recovered. She has never went in a cage since then and never will again. Some dogs should not be crated. We had another dog who was soaking wet when we came home because she drooled all over herself. Sometimes it is better to not use a crate, sometimes it is beneficial to use one.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

vicky2200 said:


> I have to disagree with this statement. Daisy got out of her crate *because she HATED it*. It's not that she wasn't used to it, she was in a crate while her previous owners were gone and at night (we got her at 6 weeks.) She absolutely went nuts. It was one of those cages that the front and back collapse in and it folds up. She knocked out a bunch of puppy teeth, tore off some nails, and had two small scratches on her. We came home, saw the blood ( there was quite a bit because of the teeth ) but didn't take her to a vet because there was no active bleeding and the cuts were no deeper than paper cuts. Fast forward a month- $1200 surgery because where one of those cuts was got infected (apparently, there was NO signs of infection and I cleaned and put antibiotic on it) and it ate away at her jaw. They weren't even sure if it would heal properly or if she would lose a portion of her jaw. Luckily, she recovered. She has never went in a cage since then and never will again. Some dogs should not be crated. We had another dog who was soaking wet when we came home because she drooled all over herself. Sometimes it is better to not use a crate, sometimes it is beneficial to use one.


Sorry to hear you went thru all that. Really, tho, I meant that statement very verbatim -- nothing can come bad of making a dog *comfortable* with a crate. Sounds like this poor dog was never actually accepting of it -- it was a torture device to her. If you got her yourself at just six weeks, at what age was that poor baby put in the crate? Five weeks or less? That's just crazy. She wouldn't be ready to be away from mama, much less be ready to crate train. Don't blame crates for this insanely stupid idea of the previous owners.!

There's a HUGE difference in working towards the dog accepting the crate vs shoving the dog in there. Who knows how the former owner "introduced" this girl to a crate? Sounds like they did a *very* poor job. 

They sure did a major disservice to the dog, as well as to you.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree, chelle. I don't get how a six week old dog can be THAT bad, let alone what a six week old dog is doing being in two homes already.

Nikon was horrid in his crate for five days. He thrashed all night long. He even rolled his crate! I didn't want to give in but it was worse than having a newborn infant. I caved and would take him to bed in my arms. Once he was asleep, I'd move him into the crate. He would fuss a bit but then calm down again. After about a week of that, he was fine in the crate at night. I did the same thing with Pan, took him to bed in my arms while I read. You can crate train and still have those special moments with the baby puppies. I kind of liked the cuddle time. When I was done reading I'd move the puppy to the crate (which I keep right next to me where they can see, smell, sometimes even lick me).

Some puppies take to a crate with no intro and others need more work but it can be done and if done correctly, only gives the owner more leverage should the dog ever need to be confined for safety.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

sparra said:


> I haven't read through all the responses...... but most.
> 
> I would say crate training is not really done in Australia like it is in the US.
> I worked in vet clinics for 12 years and only knew of 2 clients that crate trained.....they were both show people......no one else did it.
> ...


I think it depends more on what the dog does. Like you said the crated dogs were conformation dogs. My dogs do conformation, agility, Schutzhund, flyball, dock diving...you name it. None of these activities allow for dogs to be roaming loose. Plus there is constant travel and even the dog friendly hotels here require that dogs be crated if the owners are not in the room. Among purely pet dogs in the US I don't think crating is always the norm. I know very few people who have or use a crate for their pets. For any dogs that do sports, show, or work crating is not negotiable.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

To clarify, the previous owners I mentioned were the owners of the mother. The reason the puppies were removed from the mother so early is because she got hit by a car and died. I don't agree with 90% of how these people treat their animals, but that being said, I don't know if they were the reason she hated the crate or not.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i've never used crates except for my little blind cocker spaniel. he needed it because whenever i was out, or went to bed at night he'd wander and get lost and end up in predicaments he couldn't extricate himself from. so for his safety he was crated whenever i couldn't be right there. when i was home, normally not gone more than 10 or 12 hrs a week. 

they are an awesome tool, that's for sure, but i've really never needed them. if i were to have a puppy, well i just don't know. it sure would make it convenient - FOR ME. but training isn't really about convenience is it? isn't it supposed to be about what's best for this little life? that's why we get them right? not for OUR convenience surely, or we wouldn't get them at all, because it would be far more expedient not to have them at all. i mean my life would clearly be far less work and worry w/out my dogs. however, would it be happier, would they be happier? probably not, i'd be lost w/out them, and they'd probably be dead or miserable in their previous lives. 

so, if convenience is the case - use the crate. if you work out of the house by all means use the crate, it's necessary. but if you've got the time, the space and the means to train w/out a crate, why not. however, remember this, vets use crates, trains, planes, automobiles use crates for transports. it's much, much safer on long trips to have your dog crated instead of loose. even if you don't use a crate on a constant basis, to acclimate your dog to a crate is also a necessity. as much as we might want to, we are not isolated in this world. we have to make accommodation for any possibility. 

dw~


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

No you aren't stupid for not wanting to crate your dogs. I didn't with Molly or Tanner(we got him at 1 1/2. Its all a personal preference.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

No one has mentioned multiple dog households, where it is just safer and wiser that some are crated. 

BELIEVE ME, I'd sure like to have all the hooligans out loose, safely, so I didn't have to drive home twice per week and give up lunch hours for potty/stretch breaks.

I have 2 of 4 loose in the house.. that's how it has to be and how it is going to be for the forseeable future. No one is going to make me feel bad for that, it is the best scenaio for my dogs.

OP, you'll surely make up your own mind on all of this, to crate or not to crate. Clearly it is very different where you are. Myself, I would go bonkers picking up poop and cleaning pee spots daily. Other people can't deal with the thought of their precious babies being in jail all day. At the end of the day, we all choose what we truly believe best for our dogs AND what we, as owners can deal with.

Do I like to crate the other two? No. It just is what it is. I can trust #3 in the house, but I can't trust him with #2. #4 would probably eat the entire house.

And PS -- I'd love, love, love to not have to work full time and be home with my furkids. Not an option in my life. Even if I was, however, I'd still crate train. Or call it crate-condition maybe.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

a crate is your and the pups best friend. once your pup
is crate trained you'll find your pup going there on it's own
for play, naps, etc. with a crate your pup can be upstairs
and not in a basement setting. the crate will provide being close.
i crated my pup whenever he couldn't be watch constantly
and over night. my pup was crate free at 4 months old. i had to
crate him again at 8 months old and he was crated untill he was
15 months old. from 8 months old untill he was 15 months old
he was crated when we weren't home. my dog is 4.5 yrs old
and since being out of the crate at 15 months he hasn't bothered a thing.


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## jetbootz (Apr 7, 2012)

*Original Posters Reply*

G’day Guys,

Wow, it really seems like everyone has an opinion on this matter! I’ve taken the time to read through every single one of your comments, and allowed some time for everything to sink in before I replied.

What I’ve basically come to understand from this thread is that despite everyone’s differing opinions, there does seem to be a few common themes and trends that I feel is worth summing up for everyone. I feel like I owe it to everyone to write somewhat of a detailed response since you all gave your time to contribute.

Now, in regards to this whole issue, the first thing that comes to my mind is really regarding how crates themselves should be thought of. Before I read this topic, in my mind I probably unfairly associated ‘Crates’ with the word ‘Cages’. I had a bit of a negative disposition to them from the beginning based on their looks, without truly understanding how they are actually used in the real world.

From everyone’s posts, I believe that a fair way that I should now think of crates is less as a ‘Cage’ and more as a ‘Portable Kennel’. I guess that really brings me to my next point, which is in regards to my original plans for my crate-less pup training.

From what I have gathered from everyone, the way I had planned on raising my pup isn’t really a bad idea at all. Sure, it has its downfalls. I probably won’t house-train her as fast, and she might be more likely to cause a little more mischief when I’m not around. I guess at the end of the day this is ultimately the owners (myself’s) decision, because I don’t think there can be one true right or wrong way to do it. It really depends on your lifestyle and your property as to whether or not it’s going to work for you.

However, in saying this, there really does seem to be some perks in crate training your pup. Remember how I said before that I’m going to start thinking of crates as a portable kennel? Well, using this same analogy is an easy way to explain why many people don’t choose to use the ‘spare room’ method that I had planned on using. While the spare room is a near perfect environment for a pup, it is in no way, shape or form ‘portable’.

If your pup develops the skills to relax comfortably and quietly in a crate, this is something that he will most likely carry through with him for a fair portion of his life. Visits to the vet, surgery, long car rides, travelling, house-sitting, new dogs… Just take a second to stop and think. GSD’s can easily live longer than 10 years. I don’t know if anyone can confidently say that during this time, they will never be placed in a scenario where it is best for you or best for the dog to be crated.

I guess if I had to sum this whole thing up based on everyone’s comments I’d say that while using the ‘spare room’ method is perfectly fine, having the crate-training card up your sleeve for later on could prove to be invaluable. It could be invaluable not just for your sanity, but for your dogs health and wellbeing.

I hope everyone that has replied to this post can take a few minutes to read this post, and I hope that I’ve done everyone justice with this summary. Please let me know if you think I’ve hit the nail on the head or completely lost the plot  I will enjoy reading your replies!


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Benny is the first pup I have crate trained and it made things much easier. He has house freedom now, sleeps next to or on my bed. He eats in his crate for his raw meal, and often goes into it to chill.

I got one of those pop up travelling crates to use while taking him to work when he was a pup and he gave new meaning to the word "travelling crate"

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=110729594781&set=vb.833899781&type=2&theater


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

jetbootz said:


> I guess if I had to sum this whole thing up based on everyone’s comments I’d say that while using the ‘spare room’ method is perfectly fine, having the crate-training card up your sleeve for later on could prove to be invaluable. It could be invaluable not just for your sanity, but for your dogs health and wellbeing.



PERFECT! :happyboogie:

dw~


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

jetbootz said:


> I guess if I had to sum this whole thing up based on everyone’s comments I’d say that while using the ‘spare room’ method is perfectly fine, having the crate-training card up your sleeve for later on could prove to be invaluable. It could be invaluable not just for your sanity, but for your dogs health and wellbeing.


I think you've summed it up nearly perfectly right here, and I wouild think this exact post would probably make a great sticky about crating. 

The way I started to think about it was that the crate was a bed, so feeding them in there was me giving them breakfast in bed, so to speak. Once I saw how much the dogs loved the crate (for the most part, I've had those that were not comfortable as well, and didn't force the issue), it got much easier for me to use them, and it's been great for those times when I've had foster dogs in and needed to keep dogs apart. And it's nice to be able to keep them really calm when they need to be after surgery or whatnot.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

jetbootz said:


> I guess if I had to sum this whole thing up based on everyone’s comments I’d say that while using the ‘spare room’ method is perfectly fine, having the crate-training card up your sleeve for later on could prove to be invaluable. It could be invaluable not just for your sanity, but for your dogs health and wellbeing.


I think your summary is correct, and I think a LOT of people out there use BOTH methods and then some (I use crates, pens, spare rooms, baby gates for one floor of the house, or just free in the house altogether).

However for some of us, there is not a "could be " benefit to crating but it's just plain required. Anytime I want to show my dog, do an agility trial, enter a flyball tournament, go to Schuthzund training 2-3 times a week...the dog *must* be safely confined. It's not optional. There is no other way to safely confine a dog when you aren't at your home. If you don't plan to ever try any outside activities with your dog, crating probably is not necessary and there's no reason you should feel you have to do it. However I've seen my share of people who come to agility, flyball, Schutzhund, etc and never crated their dog before and have more trouble dealing with a spazzed dog that refuses to be calm and confined than actually learning how to do agility or whatever it is we're doing. We basically had to excuse someone from Schuzhund training because she refused to safely contain her dog (would not put a crate in her vehicle or use someone else's crate or open spot in a dog trailer) yet her dog was sitting in the vehicle with the window up to keep him in and it was 90 degrees outside. A crate is not just to keep the dog contained and keep him from tearing up the vehicle but so that the dog isn't closed up and can have proper shade and airflow. Just something to think about depending on your goals for your dog.


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## jetbootz (Apr 7, 2012)

Thankyou for your feedback everyone, I really appreciate it! I get my puppy tomorrow and I think I'm extremely prepared now!


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## jetbootz (Apr 7, 2012)

Just thought I'd give everyone a little update 

I got my little girl Willow nearly a month ago now, and I have finally sorted out a perfect routine that really works for myself. The great thing is that I'm actually using two methods like a few people suggested!

During the daytime, if I have to pop out to do some chores or go to work then I'll put her in the spare room under the house. I gradually eased her into this room, leaving her for 10 mins then 30 mins then an hour etc etc. She is really quite good in there, and I normally leave plenty of things to keep her entertained.

I have my favourite radio station playing (so she'll get a good taste in music haha), her bed, a few toys, a kong, an old cardboard box and of course a large cement water bowl which she can't tip over.

At nighttime when I'm ready for bed, I'll pop her in a VERY large cage/crate thing I bought (it was for a great dane... I know I know). I pop some nature music on as she loves a little background noise and off she goes to sleep! She whimpers for the first few minutes but really she is great.

Despite such a small exposure to her crate, she has never wee'd in there and knows that if she has to go during the night, she just has to start 'talking' and I'll take her out. At this stage (nearly 3 months) I probably only have to take her out before bed at around 10:30pm and first thing in the morning when the sun comes up at about 5:30am.

She can be a little restless when I try to put her back in the crate after this wee, so I usually give in and let her sleep on my bed for an extra hour so I can catch a few more z's before work.

So yeah, I just thought everyone might be interested in how I ended up training her! If anyone has any further advise or suggestions for me that would be great! I think this topic might help a few of the newer people on this forum as well 

PS Here is a photo of my little girl just to share


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sounds like its going well Congrats- She is beautiful and I love that name!!


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## jetbootz (Apr 7, 2012)

Thankyou! We get nothing but compliments for her, even from a few policemen!


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Willow is adorable.:wub: Glad things are going so well


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