# GripWork?



## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

With the AKC/WDS going the way of the Dodo, as is the UKC/SDA relationship, the political football it's apparently become, I wonder
of all our users who may care to participate, what the percentages might reveal if we simply answer these questions.

No need for opining, just vote!


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

why wouldnt you want to have grip work done in all of the sports?? there needs to be an all of the above choice because they are all pointed on the grip. JMO sorry couldnt resist


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I think what is being asked is
#1 do you do bitework training
#2 what sports

Not whether working on the grip itself is part of training in any given sport.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Not sure I understand your point... how is grip or bite (same thing) work involved in OB,SAR,Agility, Tracking...and Other could be flyball or frisbee, which arguably might be grip, but for my purpose in asking about Dog Sport, I meant to ask, about protection bitework, and so the If NO selection was expected to only be filled out by those not doing any bitework, but clearly, folks doing bitework are also often doing other things, and so voted there too. 

Clearly, folks who promote working lines support bitework and protection sports, and yet the divide between showline and workline
at times seems pretty acrimonious in some threads, and yet, simultaneously, some showline breeders seek to insure their progeny can in fact work. 

That bitework is so misunderstood, even here among gsd hosts and causes some threads to go completely down the tubes, along with the failure of the AKC/WDS program and the impending divorce of the UKC & SDA relationship, and the political frackus between the UScA/AWDF and the GSDCA/WDA organizations is enough to make one's head spin. It's not just here, the RSV2000 and the SV in the motherland mimics the malaise here. My fear is between the politically correct wonks running the HSUS and PETA, milking the
public for lobbying dollars and promoting BSL, one day, it may become very hard to find a good dog and train it, if not illegal.

So I thought I'd try to find out just how essential we as a group think bitework is. Granted, it's a small sampling of dog enthusiasts. While the board boasts 12 thousand users, it's never had even a couple hundred logged in at one time. Folks come and go. 

Frankly, I'm happy 20 people responded, and hope more will. We had about 70 folk on today...here's hoping more respond. My hope is the anonymity of the poll would encourage participation.

So bump!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I answered yes, but my SchH dog also is training in agility, rally obedience, and dock diving. He has done herding and will do more when there is not a wait-list here. He could title in a few non-SchH venues at the moment but I like to wait until the dog is more physically and mentally mature to trial, even if he can easily do all the skills.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildI think what is being asked is
> #1 do you do bitework training
> #2 what sports
> 
> Not whether working on the grip itself is part of training in any given sport.


ahhh, ic...maybe it should be re-titled "bitework." i would refer to gripwork as working the foundation of the bite. 

opposite of bite - no bite

opposite of grip - slip

sorry, my way of thinking..


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Maybe so, but can't change it now...

Likely fear was the wrong word too, and concern would be better,
concerned that bitework would become considered such a liability that some would wish to redefine it as not essential. 
Though the percentages here should be a comfort to most of us, I am also not too surprised somebody thought otherwise. 

In the last USA mag, a breeder who would cull an aggressor was mentioned, and it just got me wondering where the line should 
be drawn, by whom, and when. Obviously, the helter shelter nightmares are a concern, but street worthy is necessary too. 
I hope that folks can manage the process without any forced oversight that would water down the pool too much for the sake of political correctness.

Here's hoping Dog Sport remains part of the UKC venue in some incarnation post-SDA next year, if only to promote the work.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Quote: Here's hoping Dog Sport remains part of the UKC venue in some incarnation post-SDA next year, if only to promote the work.


SDA is still alive despite no longer being associated with UKC. All it means is that I don't have to register my dogs with UKC now!


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

RE: SDA
I know that, and hope it does well too!
I like it for many reasons, but also felt the affiliation was a good thing,
an affirmation that a kennel club understood the usefulness of protection
training. It was a feather in their cap, in my eyes, and a shame to be lost.


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Why Dan?

The UKC is not an official dog registry or are it's titles.


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

I voted yes for bitework for schutzhund, although I would like to start SDA bitework eventually (when my dog fully matures, although I do believe he is finally gaining more confidence in his defense and hopefully will gain a little fight drive as well). 

I do believe bitework is important for the breed but it is not the be all end all. I see nothing wrong with people pursuing other venues with their GSD's and creating a breeding program with dogs that dont necessarily do bitework. A breeding quality GSD should always be able to handle pressure, and I feel other dog venues can provide that (crowded dog shows with lots of chaos) and the dog is still expected to be able to focus and perform in the midst of all the distractions (that could be very ovewhelming to a weaker nerved dog). JMO


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

It's not official? Because it has no agreement with the FCI?
It is the 2nd largest one in the US, and since the 1st is so pathetic,
serves a purpose, and provides an alternative. We have the AKC, the UKC, the CKC (Continental, not Canadian), and the AKC will register any dog not registered with the AKC if it is registered in either of the other 2, so papers = papers, as long as your'$ i$ Green.

Add to that, and the UScA is now also a registry. It's pretty much a free for all, or maybe that should be fee for all!

Another thing about the UKC is it's based in Kalamazoo,MI, so the biggest deal they have, called Premier, is only a couple hour drive.
Haven't been myself, but have heard it's quite a spectacle of conformation, agility, doc diving, sled pulling, etc. and last year SDA 
Dog Sport. 

So I guess I'd say Why Not?


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Without the SDA, what good is the UKC now?
UKC Titles can not go on Pedigrees, registration is not recognized by anyone outside of the USA.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It's like Dan said, they offer everything the AKC offers and more. I like the UKC but it's not just about getting letters on the pedigree. I enjoy the competition and doing various events and that it is very owner-handler friendly (no pro handling allowed). Their events are much more favorable for working dogs (not just GSDs) and have a wider range of activities. I've seen conformation, SDA/Dog Sport, terrier racing, dock diving, weight pull, rally, obedience, and agility all at the same events. Now that the UKC has rally I have no reason to ever enter an AKC event again. The UKC is not perfect and not without it's own politics but I'd much rather put my money towards the UKC and the host clubs that I feel have a better attitude about dogs and dog ownership.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Do SchH titles go on AKC pedigrees?

I don't think so...isn't that why the AKC was dabbling with WDS?

See what your missing up there, Brian ? 










Where am I gonna go with any of mine where they aren't already internationally known bonified knuckleheads anyhow?

I don't have a passport - just a Enhanced Driver's License to get back in if I leave the loony bin by car.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerWhy Dan?
> 
> The UKC is not an official dog registry or are it's titles.


They offer a lot of programs for people though.


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerWhy Dan?
> 
> The UKC is not an official dog registry or are it's titles.


Being an official dog registry and having an agreement with the FCI are different things. The 13,000 or so events that UKC hosts each year and subsequent titles awarded are official enough for all involved. I love UKC events and ALSO greatly appreciate that European line dogs can do very well in UKC conformation. Super registry. Can you take your UKC titled dogs and compete in UKC events in Germany? No, but considering how many people ever leave their home field for a trial, this really shouldn't be much of a concern. 

Do you follow agility at all? Of course there is AKC agility, but there is also UKC, USDAA, NADAC, and at least 3 more agility organizations I know of that host events. I believe all require registration to compete, and thousands participate in each venue. Same with Flyball - that's not an AKC event, but wow (!) do they have participants! Several organizations for Flyball. The list goes on and on. 

AND, altho AKC pedigrees are recognized internationally as proof of a dog being purebred, if you have a CD, or TD and you go to Germany, does that mean you can enter a CDX or TDX over there? To my knowledge, they don't offer AKC events all over the world, so while they may recognize that your dog is a purebred and will register your dog in their country, if you want to compete, I bet you'd have to start from the beginning titles. 

Christine


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