# Breeding a female every year?



## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I was speaking to a lady today at the park who had 2 little dogs (mixes) and who was in the process of purchasing a Lab for her family.

We were talking about breeders and she was asking me about my breeder and if she bred every year or every couple. I told her she had a few breeding females and that she had a litter every other year or so as she works her dogs before breeding.

The lady told me that her pup's mother was bred every year for the past three years. Producing a 3 litters in 3 years. Is that too much? 

Do reptuable breeders produce 1 litter from the same bitch every year? Isn't that hard on the female?

I told her that was not the practice that my breeder used and she 'scoffed at me' and then had to suddenly leave.. haha.

Anyways I was just curious as to if my 'gut feeling' was justified or not?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Every *year* is pretty standard, and no, it's not too hard on the bitch. Every *heat cycle*, which could equate to 2-3 litters per year depending on how often the bitch cycles, is called "back to back" breeding and is typically frowned upon. There are some legitimate reasons to do it on occasion, but only on occasion. It would be a red flag for a breeder to regularly breed females every heat. But once every year is pretty normal and acceptable.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

No, not really. 


See Dr. Hutchinsons seminar transcript from a few years ago:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=1224

Even though the females body produces the progesterone, the progesterone is inflammatory to the uterine lining, so that after a heat cycle, the uterus is never as healthy as it was before the heat cycle. So we go from a normal uterus... and this start's with the first cycle of her life...to an endometritis to endometrial hyperplasia, which some of you have been asking about - this is when the uterus starts to thicken and we start to get bubbles in the lining of the uterus - these changes affect the uterine lining so much so that eventually the uterus cannot control the bacteria, and the ultimate end stage is pyometritis.

So, in the female... So breeding back to back... or even back to back to back to back....this is WHY it's such a crime we don't have Cheque drops on the market now, to preserve the females uterine lining. 


edited out words that could be construed as curse words.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildEvery *year* is pretty standard, and no, it's not too hard on the bitch. Every *heat cycle*, which could equate to 2-3 litters per year depending on how often the bitch cycles, is called "back to back" breeding and is typically frowned upon. There are some legitimate reasons to do it on occasion, but only on occasion. It would be a red flag for a breeder to regularly breed females every heat. But once every year is pretty normal and acceptable.


I know my pup's mother has produced 1 other litter before Stark's and that was almost 2 years ago now, would you say breeding every year is "better" than waiting an additional year?

I am not knowledgable in breeding but I have interest in learning (just for the fun of it - i will never breed) about it. Just trying to understand.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

?...What do you (Chris, Angela, other breeders) consider optimal for the bitch psychologically & physically? What is optimal for your breeding program? How often do you actually breed your individual bitches (on average)?


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

There is a breeder up here in NH that breeds every heat cycle, I wish that someone would close her down. I know this becasue she advertises the puppies, same parents have puppies in the fall that just had puppies in the spring. When I was looking for a puppy I saw the ad and went to see the puppeis, I left crying. she keeps them year around in an out door kennel 10 by 10 feet. I did not buy any puppies from her. Her dogs were very nice and starving for affection. They have a roof and dog house and water food so I guess it is legal all were healthy looking, but they were basically money makers for her. I can't stand it. Left oputside 24/7 year round if the below zero temps and in the summer hot humid buggie temps.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

This is what I am trying to understand. I hear A LOT of different opinions on what the best "wait time" is to breed females. My breeder tends to wait 2 years inbetween breedings but she does a lot of work with her dogs in the mean time (she also races and raises horses so this takes up her time as well).

I was just curious to see how many people think breeding every year to the same bitch is a "good" thing.

I tend to think in terms of the human body (not a breeder - please don't laugh.. ) and think that the body needs time to 'heal' and rejuvinate itself after having that many babies, etc.. I dunno, I am curious!


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I know some vets and experienced breeders will say "breed young (on or after the second cycle) and breed often" because a female dog is old at age 5. I also know it depends on the health and recovery time for the bitch. Some recover faster than others. In some cases, if you skip a cycle in a healthy bitch, the "oven cools down and takes more time to warm up". So you may be faced with conception issuses if you do not breed back to back. ( I will leave my personal beliefs out of this one!)

Maybe a more directed question is - when do you stop breeding a particular female. Is a 5 year old female too old to breed? IMO, it depends on the dog. As a responsible breeder, you have to know how to "read" your dogs and recognize certain signals they send you.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I know my breeder has a female (her foundation bitch) who was retired after her 1st litter.

Amazing dog in all aspects (looks, tempermant, work, health, etc..) but she was not happy being a mother so she was retired after her first litter at 3 years old.


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

BTW I am more upset with how she keeps her dogs outside in a chainlink 10 by 10 dog kennel you buy at home depot with plywood roofs and tarp, also tarp on the side so they don't bark at each other, has two males and four females GSD also has rottweilers and pugs and cairns. Not a puppy mill as she take care of them, but they have no life just baby producers.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

That would still be considered a puppymill in my eyes. JMO.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: elisabeth_00117
> I tend to think in terms of the human body (not a breeder - please don't laugh.. ) and think that the body needs time to 'heal' and rejuvinate itself after having that many babies, etc.. I dunno, I am curious!


I usually breed a female once a year after clearances are done. I have had an unplanned breeding, I'll admit. 

Now going off of your thinking. Human bodies, 9 months for a baby, lifetime of support. Dogs, 9 wks for puppies, 4-5 weeks feeding on average before weaning, gone at 8 wks typically. 

I wouldn't write off a female who didn't want much to do with the puppies the first time around. I've had some who were awesome mothers the first time. I've had some where I did more work than they did. 2nd litter, they remembered/learned from the first time. Diesel wanted nothing to do with pups after about 2 wks her first litter. Now she still wants to feed them at 6-7 wks. Now if she had been the same way the 2nd time, then that would've been the end of her in my breeding program and she would've been spayed.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I guess that is true.

See told you I know NOTHING about breeding.. hahaha.

I find it extremely interesting though.

At what age would you retire a breeding female? What is the 'norm'?


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## Effie325 (Aug 19, 2009)

It's weird, because in some breeds, breeding is done early, where as in other breeds I have been interested in, a first litter at age six is not uncommon. 

I'm not a breeder, but I think I would breed at age two or three, wait a year, MAYBE breed one more litter, then spay.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

depends on the female. I know of some who've brought a 9 yr old out of retirement and did a frozen breeding. I usually retire by 7 or 8 but 7 has been the norm. 

Effie325, some large breeds that have short life expectancies do breed earlier and stop breeding earlier. Dane's typically are at 18 months.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I don't think there is any universal answer. It depends too much on many, many factors.

When is the best age to start and stop breeding...

Well, first off, what breed? 
Small breeds mature faster, so depending on what sort of titles/health clearances are appropriate for that breed, starting at 1-1.5 may be ok. Then, they also tend to live longer, and many only cycle once per year instead of twice, so waiting longer, until 5-6 maybe may be a good idea, and still leave plenty of breeding life/litters left. Having a litter at 10 or 12 for a breed that has a 16-18 year lifespan may not be that big of a deal.

Some of the giant breeds mature slower, both mentally and physically. Sometimes not until 3-4. But they also have very short lifespans. Starting to breed at maturity may be too late and gives only a very short window of time to breed before the dog is too old.

For GSDs, again it depends on many other factors. Starting depends on when has the dog been sufficiently tested and evaluated for breeding suitability and when is the dog mentally mature? Maturation rate can vary amongst bloodlines and individuals. When a dog can be deemed breed worthy depends on how the breeder defines that, and what credentials of the dog are required to get there and how long they take to accomplish.

When to stop breeding also depends on the dog. Some females recover from a litter slower than others. Others recover quick when young, but not when they hit middle age. It may be safe and healthy and perfectly fine for a bitch to have a litter at 10, if she's one who recovers quick, whelps easy, enjoys being a mother, is still very healthy and especially if she comes from a bloodline with a lot of longevity (dogs living to be 14, 15, 16). If she recovers slowly, has difficult whelpings, dislikes motherhood, is "old" for her age, or comes from a family that doesn't tend to live past 10-12, then maybe not a good idea.

Some breeders will also do a test breeding when a dog is young, before titles and full health clearances, to see how the dog produces before putting all the time, effort and money into pursuing getting all the breeding credentials on the dog. I don't agree with that, but obviously others have what they consider to be very valid reasons for doing it. So there can be vastly differing opinions there too.

As far as how often, again it depends. 

From a purely *reproductive* health standpoint, science tells us that starting early and breeding often is the best way to go. It is more likely to be successful and produces the largest, healthiest litters. This is because every time a female has a heat cycle, her uterus is damaged. Having a litter somewhat rejuvenates the uterus and undoes a bit of that damage. Stack up enough heat cycles, and enough damage can be done to the uterus that the embryos cannot implant properly, don't get enough nurishment, and all sorts of reproductive problems can occur. Everything from failing to carry a litter, aborting a litter, sickly and undersized pups, small litter size, and so on. So waiting too long (several heat cycles) to start breeding can be problematic, as can waiting too long in between litters.

But from the standpoint of overall, not just reproductive, health, both mental and physical, the "start young and breed often" isn't the best way to go in my book. It also isn't very conducive to any sort of training/competition career for the bitch, and doesn't allow much time to evaluate previous offspring before it's time to breed again.

Still, there are no absolutes. It depends on the bitch, her reproductive health, overall health, how quickly she recovers, how she takes to motherhood. And it depends on the goals, priorities and situation of the breeder. And it also depends on how well the dog produces. If it is a poor producer, stop breeding it! If it is a well above average producer, more litters (within reason of course) may be best for the breed. Things like stud availability, when a bitch cycles in relation to trials/shows, and all sorts of other factors come into play as well.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Thanks so much!

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Heidi WBTW I am more upset with how she keeps her dogs outside in a chainlink 10 by 10 dog kennel you buy at home depot with plywood roofs and tarp, also tarp on the side so they don't bark at each other, has two males and four females GSD also has rottweilers and pugs and cairns. Not a puppy mill as she take care of them, but they have no life just baby producers.


Kept outside 24/7 and only used to make money is a puppy mill to me. Multiple breeds also a red flag.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesday?...What do you (Chris, Angela, other breeders) consider optimal for the bitch psychologically & physically? What is optimal for your breeding program? How often do you actually breed your individual bitches (on average)?


With our first female, we started her breeding career at age 2. With subsequent girls though, we've waited until 3-3.5. I like that better. I think the bitches are more mature and make better mothers at 3 than at 2. 

It also allows more time to pursue titles, better evaluate the dog's temperament in different situations and training venues, and such. Training to title takes time. Since we do it ourselves, try to do it right and not cut corners to get a quickie title, are hobbyists with "real" jobs and thus somewhat limited time and resources, and want to enjoy the whole process and not rush or feel pressured to get it done, we aren't the fastest folks in the world on getting our dogs titled, so waiting longer to start breeding works out better for us anyway.









As for how often, typically we'll wait 1.5-2 years after a first litter so we can more fully evaluate how the bitch produced. Then after that it's usually once every year. Though we have done one back to back breeding, with a year off both before and after. 

Other factors can come into play too. We only want to do one litter at a time and never have two on the ground at once or right after each other, so when bitch A has her litter can impact when we plan to breed bitch B again. Since we continue to train and title our dogs during their breeding careers, often the timing of heat cycle/litter vs trial availability comes into play too. But generally we shoot for about once a year.

When to stop breeding is IMO best determined by the bitch. I'd say I consider 7-8 to be a good retirement age, but it really depends. So far we've only retired one bitch. She had her last litter just shy of her 7th birthday. Going into that litter, we sort of planned that she would have one more the following year, and that would be it. But with that last litter she didn't whelp as easily, or recover as quickly, as she had in her previous litters. So we scrapped the plans to breed her one more time the following year and retired her then because we felt it best. With her daughters, Raven and Della, they are young and just starting their breeding careers (Della has had one litter, Raven is now pregnant with her 2nd), so when they get retired will be completely up to them, though I can't see any reason we'd breed past 7-8.

That's the way we've done things. Do I think it's the only, or even best, way to do things? No. Each person, dog and situation is different. It's just what we think is best for us.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think it depends on a lot of things. I agree it is not too hard on the bitch. But if you are truly breeding to preserve the breed, then how many puppies do you have to make?

If you are a bigger kennel with a strong customer base and excellent dogs, and you have the time and space, then it probably makes sense to attempt to breed a bitch each year between 2 or 2 1/2 and six or so. Figure four litters. Not against breeding back to back, but not more than two or three times. I have never done it. 
But the progesterone released in the heat cycle does just as much damage to the uteris than if the dog was bred. If the bitch bounced back well than breeding back to back would be ok. But breeding back to back to back, at some point it is the almighty dollar that you are breeding for. 

If you have a top bitch, you may have several dogs that you would like to breed to that complement your bitch. For that reason, breeding her three or four times makes sense. Now you can actually breed to more than one dog and use DNA testing to determine the sire. However, it is really the luck of the draw, where the little pup chose to connect that will determine how much of the goodies it gets. I do not know if breeding to several males will get you quality pups out of each male. And then, most people do not want to raise up more than one pup at a time, so I do not know that it really makes sense to do this. 

A good breeder will only breed bitches that are in top condition and only if they have the resources to provide what the litter requires. I can MAYBE manage two litters at once, but not three, I do not have the room for a third. Out of all my dogs right now, the ones that I want to continue to breed are Heidi and Jenna. That means one to two litters a year tops.


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