# Practically in Tears-Help! Aggression Problem!



## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Hello All,


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Hello All,

I've resorted to posting here because I'm currently "out of my element", living in Poland, where I do not speak the language, and I'm not sure who else to ask for help. 

Here's my situation: I'm married, living with my husband, who is Polish, and his family (mother, stepfather, 14y.o. sister, and 23y.o. brother) in a large house with an open yard-we've only recently moved in, so the fence isn't built yet, and probably won't be for some time. We own a 4-5 month old GSD who we took in after my sister-in-law found the puppy near her school at about 2 months. He is healthy, intelligent, loving (in his own rowdy way), and hungry all the time







I had two large breed, mild-tempered dogs in the U.S., a German Short-Haired Pointer who I took in as an adult and a Labrador Retriever (recently dearly departed, R.I.P. Sandy!) who I raised from puppyhood. I have some experience training dogs, although none with the level of intelligence and obstinance







as a GSD. 

We never had any trouble with our dogs regarding aggression, however, when we took in our GSD Sammy, I did some reading and realized that aggression could be a problem as he got older. From the beginning he has been a biter, although in the past month I have seen his aggressive biting increase over his puppy/teething biting. He is still getting new teeth in, however, he definitely understands the difference between a gentle, play bite and a teeth-baring, mean bite. 

Usually he bites us like this when we are cleaning his feet after coming in from outside, trying to get him out from under a table or the bed in order to put him in time-out, or when we're disciplining him in some way. Our main forms of discipline are time-outs or being sprayed in the face with water from a squirt bottle (quite effective!), light spanking or swats on the butt only make him more aggressive. When I trained my other dogs, I did a lot of reading on the subject, and I have since tried all the methods I could think of to rid him of this mean biting. I have tried acting like a dog myself, ie growling at him, even, embarassingly enough, lightly biting him myself to get the point across! Prior to the outbreak of his mean bites, I realized he was showing some overly dominant behavior, ie. biting, standing on top of people, etc. Using advice from a friend who has trained a number of pit bulls and rottweilers, we started rolling him over on his back and holding him there until he broke eye contact with us following dominant behavior. This improved his behavior, to the point where we rarely have to do this anymore. However, the mean biting has recently increased.

Another large problem we have with Sammy is an excess of barking. My other 2 dogs were never biters, but boy did they ever bark and whine, one of them does it constantly, however, she quiets down on command. Anytime Sammy gets excited he barks-usually during discipline. For instance, if he bites too hard and we spray him with the water and say "not allowed" or "don't bite" (he understands these expressions), he barks repeatedly and cannot be silenced. If he is forced to do anything he doesn't want to we are subject to CONSTANT barking that is intolerable even to my dog-associated ears. The barking, I must say, is partially the fault of my sister-in-law who plays a lot of games with him inside that encourage excessive barking. He generally does not bark in an excessive way when I play with him. Either way, we have no way of controlling his barking and this is a problem.

So, before I go any further, let me just identify that those are our two main problems-the aggressive biting and the incessant barking. Obviously, dogs will bark and bite (gently) occassionally, especially when playing, but this behavior is currently uncontrollable. The only person who has influence over him in this regard is me, and he only listens to me 50% of the time.

His biting is getting worse and worse-he does not discriminate on who he bites, he bites everyone repeatedly in a playful or routine way although he generally bites the lower of our family "pack" more often. He tends to view me as the leader, with my husband, and his brother as immediately below me, my sister-in-law as his equal, and my parents-in-law at the bottom. Recently, he bit my mother-in-law while playing, and although he didn't mean to hurt her, it was a quite serious wound, which he later reopened when he bit her aggressively for some reason or another. My parents-in-law are highly inconsistent in disciplining him, hence his lack of respect for them. Likewise with my sister-in-law, she doesn't truly understand how to act with him so that he will listen to her. Truly, the key to controlling him is a mystery to us all, even to me-some pack leader I am!

Two other points for consideration-he has not been neutered yet, although as I see his behavior spiral more and more out of control I am positive we will do this when he is old enough in a few months. Also, I have to admit that he does not receive enough exercise and, because my mother-in-law is not a real dog-interested person, she does not exercise him or play with him while everyone is away during the day and she is at home. However, he usually gets a rowdy romp with my sister-in-law in the evening, and a couple of walks a week in addition to that...but I still don't think it's enough.

Anyway, if you have gotten through this ridiculously long post, please respond with any and all suggestions on how to curb his aggressive biting and barking. As I noted before, the squirt bottle is quite effective with biting (although not barking), and time-outs are effective, but I am generally the only person who consistently implements them. We have also tried domination (roll over on back, eye contact), swats on the butt, growling, yelling, etc. He responds (obviously) best to someone who is calm. He is also still small enough to pick up and put somewhere for time-out, which is useful, although much biting generally ensues before we can catch him. *sigh* I appreciate any help anyone can provide-I really don't want to give up on this dog-he's so smart, and we've already taught him sit, lay, roll-over, stay, give me your paw, and don't touch-and he was house-trained 3 days after we got him (amazing!) and although some of the people in our house don't like to admit it, we love him very much. It's so very frustrating to have this problem. Thanks again









Pam


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Ah, yet another gator puppy!!!








Many first time GSD puppy owners are shocked how hard the dear babies bite. There are many excellent suggestions in the puppy section, I suggest that you read those threads as there is a wealth of information there.
This behavior is not aggression and it will get better with age and training.
Please don't roll your pup, we just rescued a 1yo who belonged to a cop that rolled him. The dog now snarls at people who try to reach towards his collar. It is an antique training method that will do more harm than good - and can get you seriously injured if you apply it on an older dog.
The more exercise the better, a tired pup is a good pup. It sounds like he may not be getting the exercise he needs.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Whew! 

Where to start?
Instead of Alpha rolling, squirt bottle adversives and swatting why don't we really blow his mind, and praise him? 

"What!" you ask? 
Yes, Praise. Not only to mark wanted good behaviors, but to interrupt
misbehavior. It will throw him for loop, and likely stop him long enough to redirect with a command, like "Sit".

If he is a dominant bully, really, you may have more dog than you can deal with, especially if the whole family can't contribute to his training with persistent and consistent training. 

Also, work the dog. A tired dog is a good dog. Load up a backpack for walks. Throw a frisbee until he's ready to drop. When you do training, keep it short enough to leave him wanting more. Get a tug toy, used only for training, and make biting it the reward. If he is still
teething, he has to chew, rope toys, starch bones, even used plastic milk jugs. He can kick them around and burn up that energy. Better the the toys than you!

Every member of the household should be able to stand over him while in a down. No force, no fight. If he thinks he can't submit to
all of you, and wants to fight about it, you may have a dominant bully.

You've created a vicious cycle of negative re-enforcement, and have to re-examine your training methods and find some fun and joy for all of you or this is not likely going to end well. 

He's running the show because you are not. You have to out smart him, and he's smarter than your others were. 

Does he have a crate? Does he like it? It's not jail, it's his house.

Anger and dog training mix like oil and water, and do not make a solution. When you get frustrated, stop, ignore the dog, calm down
and come back to it later.

You are the pack leader, you control the resources. Hand feed, make him be gentle or he goes hungry. You don't have to fight. If he wants to eat, he has to behave. Google NLIF dog training, but realize
sunshine, air and water should be free. Most all STAY CALM!

Hollering is so counter productive, it has to stop immediately.
<span style="color: #990000">Read this too! Make everyone read it!</span> 

GrandMa, Husband, kids have to get with the program too.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Hi Pam. Well, you certainly reached out to the right place when writing to this board. 
Here are a few of my suggestions. NO MORE PLAYING W/ HIM AT ALL! Study up on the training method, "Nothing in Life is Free." 
Make him work for everything ... he doesn't get a pet until he sits, etc.; He works for treats, his breakfast, dinner, etc.; When you are eating, put him in his crate before hand so he doesn't have a chance to go under the table; If he barks in his crate, use a Vari-Kennel style crate (enclosed) and cover the front of it w/ a towel, sheet - less stimulation in a den-style atmosphere will perhaps calm him; I would skip the rolling - it is probably keying him up. I would use positive-reward base training, w/ treats for you going through the door first, etc. 
Be assertive w. your family members letting them know it is your way only for training the dog. Let them know it has to be like this or he could possibly end up being an uncontrollable teenage GSD. Not a fun experience ...
I'm sure others will write some more tips. Also, look through the forums. There is a wealth of info on this board. 
Best of luck and don't give up. You can do it!!!!!!


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks for all the great feedback. For the record, I do give him a lot of praise...pretty much anytime he even remotely seems to be doing what I want him to do. It's just so incredibly frustrating to see the other 5 members of the household not realize that constant negative remarks and lack of consistent discipline are not useful. Thank you again!


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

You already hit the nail on the head. The dog needs more excercise. Period. If he is being walked a few times a week he needs to be walked EVERY DAY. He should be walked and played with until his energy is spent. This may prove more than your family is capapble of doing, which is OK, but at that point he probably needs to be rehomed. I would honestly say that excercise is the absolute key. Get him good and tired and he'll be much more receptive to training, and he'll be happier. At 4-5 months old you also have to be careful not to overtax his bones or he'll develop issues.
Until he is older and capapble of LOOONG walks, I would suggest playing. Bare in mind a GSD of that age is going to need a TON of energy burning playtime to calm down, but if you can get into a routine it WILL get easier. Once he's old enough for long walks, this will help too. 
Finally, recognize that he WILL get better as he gets older. Some dogs COMPLETELY grow out of this, but most don't. They DO however mellow as they age. An adult GSD, whose been properly socialized and get plenty of mental and physical stimulation is a sight to behold.
Good Luck!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Leash walking is usually not enough exercise for them. They need to RUN! At that age I would fetch/play frisbee with my dogs 2-3 hours a day.
A positive sign of a tired puppy is the tongue hanging down to the ground, on the side.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I don't really have anything to add, I just want to say thank you for taking in this puppy and for not giving up on him. Bless you!


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

I tried out some of the new techniques today and I'm already seeing some improvements! I think he's realizing that we've turned over a new leaf







I also had a pretty detailed talk with my sister in law and parent's in law about training and appropriate behavior using the positive-reinforcement style. They were really receptive-I think they're about as much at their wits end as I am! I completely believe we can train him to be a great dog, he's already got a good temperment, once we expend some energy he'll be much better. I'm working on the crate predicament, we trained my other dogs with a crate and it worked out particularly well, however, the problem is most people here in Poland don't use a crate! And they also feel that spaying/neutering pets is sort of cruel...but regardless, I WILL find a crate, and if I don't, I'll build one. I think it will have a huge impact on his behavior, especially when we're eating. Thanks again-I'll keep updating as I see improvements


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I just saw this post and wanted to respond. It really sounds like you've got your hands full...and you've got a pretty typical gsd puppy.







At 4-5 months old you are not seeing "aggression" or "mean" biting but you are seeing typical gsd puppy behavior. His idea of playing is rough and the types of corrections you've been giving him may be interpreted by him as playing! 

I agree about the NILIF and the reward based training. I would add one more thing that has worked for all of my dogs. When they get really amped up I train them to get a toy in their mouth. That means carrying a toy around everywhere with you for a while until he catches on. I stick the toy in the dogs mouth every time they try to bite me or get really crazy and then praise them for playing with (or carrying) their toy. As you can see from my avatar picture you may end up with a dog who carries their toy everywhere but you will also end up with a dog who understands how to correctly redirect their energy onto something other than human body parts! 

Finally, I agree that he needs WAY more stimulation. Multiple short training sessions and games (hiding toys or treats, etc.) will help tire him out. Combine that with AT LEAST an hour of walking every day and you should have a much happier puppy! Good luck and keep asking questions!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I agree with everyone else and see you are already having improvement.

Thru no fault of your own, you've only been training by having him do things wrong and correcting........ When most of us have found much more luck figuring out how to have them do things RIGHT and rewarding. It's a hard life for a puppy who's always being wrong wrong wrong (and I'm not saying he isn't, just that for TRAINING, it's not generally working for me either) rather than turning things around to have him do things RIGHT and be rewarded.

And WAY WAY WAY more exercise. Off leash is best. You want him so tired out he crawls in the door looking for his bed to crash.

Training to keep him mentally active using treats. Do you have a clicker? Even better with a clicker. 

And managing his environment so he can't do 'wrong' is a help. I know I crate train when I can't be with my dog. And she's always perfect in the crate! 

Toys, tugging, fetch.....tricks!!!!!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Yes, that's true. The only way the little sharks were not biting my legs was when they had some toy in their mouth.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

Pam-

Here's a fun game...cheap too. Cut an old rubber hose, 2 pieces about a foot long. Toss one, he fetches and brings it back. Play with the other, he'll want it and drop the one he has. As soon as he does, toss the other, in the other direction, so you are the center of the activity.
That way, he runs his butt ragged having fun, you don't have to run.

Start adding "drop-it" or "out" moments before he does, he'll learn the command in short order, so when you need to tell him to give up something he's decided he wants and shouldn't have, he'll understand.

So glad to hear there is improvement already. Sounds more like a pup than a real problem. It's a process, there will be good days and some not so great, but at the end of the day, let the last thing he hears, no matter how the day was, even if he was a pistol, be your voice saying "You're a good boy!"

The more he hears it, the more he will want to fulfill that expectation.
And expectations are important, they can read us like a book, so we must be calm, and expect good behaviors rather than dread or worry about misbehaviors. It's that simple, really!


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

You've been given some great advice. Exercise, NILIF, teaching him to carry a toy area all really good ideas and should help you out tremendously.

I just wanted to add that during this training time (which will last for months or more), anyone who is in the household who is NOT willing to do what is right for the pup (which is following the RULES so that this pup grows up to be a well-mannered, kind, caring, FUN adult dog) should not interact with the pup at all so as to avoid confusion. Consistency is really important in training, and if ONE person thinks that it's okay to let him bite, or okay to let him get away with things, then it becomes very difficult for the rest of the people to have success in what they're doing.

With small or younger kids, controlled and supervised interaction only so that the dog can be taken away if the kids aren't able to follow the rules. The HUMANS will probably learn more during all of this than the pup will! *L* 

By the way, anybody giving him food by hand needs to follow these rules:

1. Give the treat by putting it in your palm and reaching out lower than the pup's chin so that he can put his muzzle in the hand and gently lift the treat out. This will help avoid the fingers getting nipped.
2. If someone insists on giving a treat using the fingers, and the pup uses teeth on the fingers, then the last thing the person is allowed to do is to yank the hand back. When a pup puts his mouth on your fingers so that your fingers are inside of his teeth, the proper response is to push your fingers forward into his mouth so that the PUP backs off of the hand. It's not supposed to hurt him (although the human's knuckles will probably get scraped on the puppy's teeth). But it will start the pup thinking that he needs to take a treat carefully because that hand may jump into his mouth! *L* So many pups learn to grab for treats because people tend to jerk their hand AWAY when giving a treat, and the pup goes "snap snap SNAP" trying to grab the treat. When your hand is moving FORWARD, the pup learns to lean away from it and take the treat softly.

On the barking - first I would avoid doing things that you know will create a barking situation. But if you know there's going to be barking, I would put a leash on his flat collar and hold the leash down close to the collar. When he starts to bark, pull up slightly on the leash and with your other hand, circle his muzzle and push down a bit. What this does is creates a bend in his trachea (try putting your chin to your chest and try to bark and you'll see how much more difficult it is). When he stops barking, you praise and let go of his muzzle. If the barking starts, press down on the muzzle again, etc. The end goal is to have a dog that realizes that NOT barking gets him praise, treats, whatever - and barking just gets his nose pushed on. It's not harsh, doesn't hurt, but can be very effective if done right.

And forget all the dominance stuff. If you do NILIF, control his resources and make him work for food, treats, attention, being allowed out the door, etc. you will find that he is going to think you're the boss, plain and simple. Consistent NILIF, used with consistent obedience training and simple, low-key corrections helps a puppy learn what's acceptable and what isn't, and helps build a very wonderful relationship between you and your dog.

Oh, and don't forget the exercise, everyday, rain or snow or sleet!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I appreciate your comment about rolling the pup. It is just something that would not be very helpful.

However, beyond NILIF and Exercise I thing the OP has to establish much more control over the dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

He doesn't sound aggressive or even overly dominant, luckily. I've seen a LOT of GSDs this age behave in this way, even ones belonging to owners who do a lot of exercise and training. Some of them are just very mouthy dogs, period.

Along with the suggestions of more exercise, NILIF/making him earn praise and play time, I would also be more aware of your body language. Lots of times I see people with really mouthy puppies doing little things like reaching to pet the pup and then jerking the hand away. Just little things like that that actually turn on the dog's prey drive. If you need to touch the dog, commit to it and be deliberate about it. You said he gets more mouthy if he is swatted or spanked, that also leads me to believe this may be the case, that sometimes the body language of your family members is actually encouraging mouthy, prey drive type behavior.

One thing I do with my pup is give him an outlet for prey drive and biting. I am very clear about when biting is allowed and when it's not. We do a lot of tug games, puppy flirt pole with rags, etc. When we are done, I put these toys away and he cannot use them unless *I* bring them out. We do them at least once a day, often as somewhat of a reward after a 10 minute obedience practice or something like that.


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Wow! So many great ideas and suggestions-thanks so much to EVERYONE who took the time to answer this post-I can't thank you enough. I plan on implementing the toy subsitute for human body parts idea immediately, I think this would be a good way for him to understand that biting is absolutely not allowed. I actually signed back on here today to check new suggestions because I was still feeling frustrated about the biting. Besides ignoring him when he bites, we've still been trying timeouts, but I'm giving up on those-I see that they are no longer useful with him. He usually bites when he thinks you're physically trying to make him do something. For instance, if he doesn't listen to "come" and you try to gently guide him to you, he'll try to bite you, with teeth bared. The same if the thinks he's about to get hauled into the time-out room, or if he doesn't want to sit, stand, etc. and you're trying to guide him to do it. We've been teaching him bite inhibition, so the play biting has pretty much stopped, all we're dealing with now is the "I don't want to do what you're trying to make me do" biting. However, I think no more time-outs and the toy idea will help eliminate this one as well. He always behaves so much better with positive reinforcements to go on.

I really appreciate the advice about body language and not pulling the hand away-I find that he bites me the least out of everyone, and I think that may be because if I'm going to pet him, pick him up, point at him, whatever, I do it, regardless of if he acts like he's going to bite or not-great advice, thanks!

Here's an update on Sammy-we've been implementing the new techniques, and while sometimes it's difficult for everyone to remember to be positive, positive, positive! it's really working quite well. I was relieved to hear that his biting is not necessarily a sign of an aggressive personality, and I agree now too that this is not his problem. We're constantly teaching him new things-he gets several training sessions a day with different members of the family (although usually with my supervision), and he gets walked or exercised outside by playing every day. We're still constantly amazed by his intelligence. It also seems that he's becoming more cooperative with other members of the family, so that makes life a lot easier too.

For the past 2 weeks all six members of the family have been at home pretty much all the time so that has presented some new opportunities for bonding and training. It's impossible to force everyone to behave a certain way with the dog. Fortunately, he listens and cooperates with those people who are consistent with their behavior, and that's what counts. He generally doesn't cause any trouble with the others. I've noticed that he is particularly fond of my father-in-law, who is only home in the evenings normally, and who doesn't really enforce any rules whatsoever with him. He's usually the one who walks Sammy, besides myself, so I think he associates him with that . Bottom line-he's now a beloved family pet rather than a tolerated family pest (although he was always the former to me!), and I couldn't be more happy with the results! Thanks again everyone!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Nice to hear he's doing so well and that you are working hard on this. He really doesn't sound at all aggressive. Just a normal GSD to me. 



> Quote:For instance, if he doesn't listen to "come" and you try to gently guide him to you, he'll try to bite you, with teeth bared. The same if the thinks he's about to get hauled into the time-out room, or if he doesn't want to sit, stand, etc. and you're trying to guide him to do it.


'Come' is a really hard command. And since you want them to WANT to 'come', unless you have a leash on him to guide, I wouldn't try either the guiding or hauling around thing. Neither will teach 'come' at all. In fact both those training methods will make him NOT like the word and to start possibly really running away.

I personally don't use 'come' at all unless I know 100% they will or are 'coming'. Otherwise you start up with the command being 'come come come come come come come come' (while dog is running off) which clearly shows it's not working (unless you want come to mean 'run away/ignore me'









Instead, all my early training is ONLY with my dog's name. And food and/or toys. I don't even bother saying 'come' but when I say my pup's name, and get their attention, they turn to see me standing with a piece of yummy treat OR running away with their favorite toy.

I want my pups to WANT to 'come' to me. Be crazy to run to me. Beat me to where I am going cause they are having so much fun they want to beat me. 

So say they get used to my treat jar sound and I say 'Elsa, want a treat?' I have her attention with her name and she's beating me to the treat jar. Where she get's to 'sit' and then I give her a treat.

'Coming' for a puppy is NOT a power issue. It's NOT a 'you will come cause I said so or else'. So how can I figure out ways to have her want to come to me? 

Not saying I don't do time outs with my dogs, but I go to my puppies (they don't come to me) when they are in the midst of the 'trouble' and I CALMLY pick them up to take them to their crates. No yelling or 'bad dogs'. A time out should be calm and the dog should not feel they have to struggle and get away. I don't want to have to drag them into the crate either. That's a good way to get our pups to start avoidance behavior and stop allowing us to even get near their head or collars. HUGE problem later on.

So keep up the good work with the toys. Tons more play so the pup mostly sleeps from exhaustion in the house







and come up with ways that mean being with you, listening to you, coming to you is the best thing in the world and the puppy WANTS to do it. Not has to. (cheese/chicken/beef/hotdogs/toys toys toys)


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Maggie-

I appreciate your comments about time-outs. Since I've had to redefine my dog-training ideals when it comes to Sammy, I wasn't really sure if time-outs were good/bad. The way I've been putting Sammy in time-out is the same-he has a time-out room (no dog crates in Poland, and no one in the family seems to be a skilled enough carpenter to make one), and he only goes there when he gets into crazy biting mode with teeth bared where his objective is to hurt you. In the past, I've done as you've said-calmly picked him up from underneath the coffee table (which is where he hides when he knows he's done wrong), despite his fit of crazy biting, and calmly bring him to the time-out room. No name calling, with the exception of a "don't bite" if he's still trying to bite me once he's in my arms. At first this worked well, although lately he usually comes right out of the time-out room and then starts biting all over again and there's a lot of irritating evasion tactics (biting, rolling on his back so he can't be picked up) on his part once he realizes a time-out is imminent. We tried substituting with the toy last night and it was *kind of* effective. I don't know if he really understood what we were doing, but we'll keep working with it. What I've noticed works the best when he's in a rage is to calmly take him into my lap, get his head in a comfortable position where he can't jump away or lunge, and just gently pet his snout and head. After a few tries at biting my fingers, he stops and I praise him a lot and give him a treat. Is that an acceptable way to handle this type of biting? 

I'm also relieved to hear that "come" is not such an easy command for him to learn-his "come" is very inconsistent, although it's getting better. I've been trying to follow the advice I've seen on this site about using "come" mostly when you know he will definitely come to you for sure. We practice "come" outside with treats and he's getting really good with it, however, indoors if I say come and there's not some compelling reason for him to be by my side (food, toy) I usually get a stare or, on a good day, a few tentative steps in my direction. This morning I tried something new though-he was rather insistent to go outside but before I let him out I asked him to come (usually I make him do something else out of his repetoire before leaving the house). It took a few minutes of hemming and hawing on his part, but when he realized that was the only way he was going to go outside he came to my side immediately. Maybe I've hit on an effective strategy? I dunno-we'll see. But I won't try to make him come anymore, I agree that it's counterproductive.

I've found that pretty much all negative words such as "no, bad dog, don't ---, not allowed, etc." are useless with him-I guess he's heard them so much from everyone in the past that they have no meaning any longer. It's much easier to teach him the right thing instead of "don't do this, don't do that."

Anyway, thanks for the advice-always trying to come up with ways, like you said, to make him WANT to carry out our commands, so any and all advice is so helpful!


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Thank you so much for your advice about giving treats and barking-I will definitely start using both of these strategies right away! I've found that when it comes to barking, there's always a reason WHY he is barking (I know, duh). Like you said, I try to eliminate factors that would provoke barking. He very rarely barks when I play with him, even when it's rough and rowdy play. There's the occasional yip of impatience but that's it. He only barks 1) when my young s-i-l is playing with him (he considers her to be a fellow puppy) and 2) when he hasn't had proper exercise that day and he needs to let out some energy, in which case, we go outside and play until he drops and then he's a model GSD


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

dOg house-thanks for the reassurance-I feel so relieved to hear it! Really, every day there's some improvement or good point to focus on, and pretty much every time I or anyone else in the house comes into contact with him it's "what a good boy, such a good Sammy" etc. etc. He's calming down a lot now that he's getting enough exercise, and now that I know how much a lack of exericise affected him before, it's really easy to identify if his misbehavior is a result of not getting enough exercise that day (and if he does misbehave, that's almost always why). He's a great dog, and it's so rewarding to see him make progress. I've always been a large breed dog person, but now I think I'm becoming a German Shephard person more than anything else thanks to Sammy


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDLeash walking is usually not enough exercise for them. They need to RUN! At that age I would fetch/play frisbee with my dogs 2-3 hours a day.


Please understand that I'm not trying to be snotty here but this kind of thing is really bugging me. I keep hearing play with the dogs, exercise the dogs, do this and do that with/for the dogs. I totally want to do good things for my dogs but I also need to take care of other things in my life. I work 40-50 hours a week at my job and then go take care of my business which by the way hasn't gotten so much taking care of since I got dogs. I run it from my home so dogs are with me.

So, I gotta ask, do you people not have jobs to go to, houses to clean, grocery shopping, cooking and laundry to do, children to care for etc etc etc?


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Riley's Mom-

I completely understand how you feel!! Right now I'm only teaching part-time so I have the luxury of spending a lot of time at home-when I'm busy, there are four other adults in the house who can take care of Sammy if I can't. However, before I got married when I lived in the U.S., it was a completely different story. I was working and going to college, and I had barely any free time. Basically, the way I made it work is that when I exercised myself, that's when I exercised my dogs, too. I would walk/run for an hour a day, 5 days a week, and they came with me. But there were plenty of times, periods of months even, when their exercise was not so regular. Also, I find that Sammy needs WAY more exercise than either of my previous dogs did, even when they were puppies. It really does take a serious commitment from owners to ensure that their dogs get the proper exercise they need...and I'll be the first to say that it's hard to be so devoted unless you have a lot of free time, no matter how much you love your dog!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Riley's Mom, when we got dogs- namely GSDs- we knew we had to make time for them just like we make time for kids, spouses, jobs, etc. If we didn't have the time to satisfy their needs, we would not have them or we would make other arrangements in the case of "life happens" events. This breed is a very high maintenance breed, not like a greyhound that loves to lounge and only needs a run a few times a week or a toy breed that can get sufficient exercise just by running around the house. GSDs are time-intensive dogs and that is why we stress researching the breed PRIOR to acquisition because people need to know how much work must go into a GSD to have a good pet.

That said, there are days I spend hours working with my dog and days where it just doesn't work out that way and that's fine. It's certainly not ideal but I do work, I do get sick, things happen. More times than not though we do have very good quality time training and playing and training wears my dog out faster and longer than any physical exercise. We usually do 30 minutes of HARD fetch and training several times a week, longer on the weekends, and then we do attend classes at least once a week (except lately due to health and holidays), and we do train at home. Renji is always ready for more but this works very well and I know this because he spends a lot of time snoozing on his bed during the "off time."









I can't imagine why anyone would want a dog if they weren't going to spend a bunch of time with it, but that's just me and how I prioritize life. And yes, sometimes the chores pile up.... a lot of the time...







But that time goes to a worthy cause, me and my dog.







If you do find yourself struggling to get in enough time with your dogs, the best bet is to make the time as quality as you can. Agility training crams in a LOT in a very short amount of time and that's one of the best ways to quickly tire out my dog mentally and physically. We don't even have to have a course; just working on send-outs and going around trees and hopping over pipes on the ground is plenty; his mind works a mile a minute, trying to figure out the hand and body signals and directionals. 15 minutes of this each day plus some heeling work and a good run a few times a week should give you a couple of very happy, very tired dogs.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomSo, I gotta ask, do you people not have jobs to go to, houses to clean, grocery shopping, cooking and laundry to do, children to care for etc etc etc?


Yes I do and resent your asking. I have a job where I work from home. I have 3 children who need to get to school. The oldest is 5 so I get next to no help from any of them. I could detail for you in a paragraph the minimal amount of help I get from the children.

Did I mention my husband is dead? 

Yet there's 2 dogs who live here, both well cared for, exercised and loved. No the kids don't play with them for more than 10 minutes at a time. I take care of them.

So in case you missed my point, I find your excuses WEAK.


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## moeheg (Oct 16, 2008)

Hi,
I just wanted to add one more idea on the biting issue. I'm a first-time GSD owner who got her somewhere between 8 to 12 month old puppy from a shelter and was at first floored by the amount of biting. Not until I found this forum did I realize that GSD's tend to be part gator when they are puppies. I've had a lot of success with stopping her using the leave it command. I started by using a treat or toy and showing it to her then putting it under my foot. When she went after it I would tell her leave it then when she lost her concentration I would say leave it and give her a treat. It took just a few days for her to learn this and saved a lot of problems. Hope this helps


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

If you think the comment from Riley's Mom was meant to be critical, please give it another read. It was not, just helpful and factual. Apparently, a subsequent poster did, and perhaps also needs to read again.

German Shepherds are very versatile. I remember talking with a cop who had a very expensive police dog. When we discussed exercise and playtime, his comment was during most days the dog spends his life lying down in back of the car. The police do continual traing and exercise, but it is not a great amount of time.

I tend to think on your end the most important thing is establishing firm control over your dog. 

Good Luck


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:, indoors if I say come and there's not some compelling reason for him to be by my side (food, toy) I usually get a stare or, on a good day, a few tentative steps in my direction.


That's all NORMAL and what a smart puppy (all our smart puppies) will do. If there's nothing in it for the puppy, why SHOULD they come? 

WE have to be fun. WE have to be worth 'coming' to. WE have to be smart and come up with what works for our puppy. And if they are off leash so you can't guide them, it's even more important for us to be the smart member of this partnership and come up with what works.

I don't care if I have to whoop it up like a crazy person to get my dog to come. Or carry a tug toy. Or have a pocket full of cheese all day/every day. If any or all of that makes my puppy tear over to me when I call it's name (once again, I don't even bother saying 'come'. That's way far down the line with official dog training...) with excitement and joy, then that's what I do.

The ability to take my dogs to new places where they feel a bit insecure and they want to stay with me, helps enormously. My house and yard tend to be safe and known, my puppy can hear me yelling and knows where I am, so why the heck should they bother to come to boring old me when they have their nose in a big pile of squirrel smell? 

Socialization, bonding, exercising... that's what my puppies need from me. All the 'obedience' and tricks are icing on the cake that I work on. Even more importantly I work on ME learning the training skills to motivate and teach my dog.

Dog training is really only about 50% (or less) about the dog and it's behaviors. Dog training is MUCH more about the human element and our skills and abilities. How much we know (or not) what we try (or not) what we do (or not) has a huge impact (or not). And if our pups aren't getting it, it's not their fault. It's ours usually just cause we don't know........... but we can learn!

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/recall.htm

http://www.expertvillage.com/video- ton of ideas to teach the recall

http://www.clickertraining.com/node/235

Using the clicker REALLY helps with this initial training. Course it's another skill the human has to learn (and sometimes THIS 'old dog' does have trouble learning a new trick!







) But it's worth it for the dog.

Play play play with your dog. Be fun and the leader. BOTH make a good bond with your dog.


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Maggie-

Thanks for that-my f-i-l has been home a lot the last 2 weeks and I'm starting to feel like I'm number 2 in Sammy's world! Jealousy is silly, but it's difficult not to feel that way when you're the one doing practically everything for the dog, and they're choosing someone else over you. I think I just need to spend some more time with him walking, since this seems to be a bigger bonding point for him.

I tried working with him on "come" using just his name and a lot of treats and I saw a big difference. After just a few tries, he comes nearly every time he hears my voice calling his name


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:I tried working with him on "come" using just his name and a lot of treats and I saw a big difference. After just a few tries, he comes nearly every time he hears my voice calling his name












And remember that this 'coming' can become a great good 'habit' for your pup but it takes alot of time for habits to get really firm in our dogs. So keep with the treats for weeks (months) until he IS 100%.

Only after that's happening (AFTER) do you start randomly NOT giving a treat but maybe a rousing game of tug. Or praise praise praise (and let them go). But then continue to use treats almost all the time. 

If you do it right, randomly, the dog will always think it's worth coming cause maybe THIS time there will be a treat/toy. If you go to fast and remove the treat/toy then they figure out that mostly they don't get the reinforcement they want from you and ARE from whatever they are doing. So you will start getting ignored again.

Taking your dog out for walks is a good way to do this. WITH your toys. WITH your treats. I can't stress enough, if you can be fun and happy and a blast that your dog thinks YOU are the best thing in the world, you will be amazed how you bond and the training progresses. If you instead start to get into the 'making' him behave at such a young age, you will lose the potential to have a willing partner.


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Great progression over the weekend-we walked and played outside with treats and he was SO GOOD! We play a lot outside with treats, but he's usually a little distracted, of course-but yesterday he was right on target, every time he brought the stick back to me his butt immediately hit the ground as did the stick. He came when I called him the first time, and generally he didn't get offtrack with whatever we were doing. Later on in the evening we had a lot of snow so I traded our second walk for some inside play-stair running. Sammy has been a pro on the stairs since he was about 3.5 months old so going up and down is no problem-we ran the stairs up and down for about 30 minutes and I acted super excited so we could practice not jumping (I get excited, he jumps, I say down, he stops, treat) and he did great. He was so tired after that, he went in his room and didn't come out until he heard the refrigerator door open (lol!) four hours later.

Also, I took a suggestion from momtomolly and started using the command "don't touch" when he bites-we've had a DRAMATIC turnaround in his biting. Crazy as it sounds, I had started teaching him this command recently by putting a piece of food under his nose and telling him not to touch, pretending to drop food on the floor and saying don't touch, etc. and he caught on right away. When I read momtomolly's post I realized that I could use this to help curb his biting-I don't know why I didn't think of that before-duh! So I started using don't touch whenever he bites playfully (especially at hanging clothing, petting hands, etc.) or when he's angry. It works like a dream in both situations, and makes life A LOT easier for everyone. Thank you thank you thank you for the suggestions!

One other small note, we gave him a bone last night for the first time in a while and when I tried to take it away from him in order to play fetch with it, he growled at me and wouldn't give it up. He also tried to bite me (with the bone still in his mouth lol), and despite my command to "give it to me" the command we use for giving up food and toys, he still wouldn't drop it. I was able to pry it out of his mouth and I held on to it for a few minutes, then gave it back, and did the whole thing again. The second time he gave it up on command, although he had a good grip on it. The next 4-5 times I practiced with him before he finished the bone off. He gave it up each time without any trouble, and he got treats each time for giving it up. Just in case he didn't get the message, I hand fed him at each meal today just to make sure and everything went fine. I guess it was just a one-time thing? He's never been protective of his bones before. I guess we'll see on Monday when he gets another bone.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: pamlarougeI traded our second walk for some inside play-stair running. Sammy has been a pro on the stairs since he was about 3.5 months old so going up and down is no problem-we ran the stairs up and down for about 30 minutes


 I wouldn't do this to a 5 months old pup, you are risking to ruin his hips and elbows.


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

Oops...nevermind to that then! I thought I was just risking wearing out MY knees


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## cthemrun (Jan 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom
> 
> 
> RebelGSD said:
> ...


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

The above quote made me laugh, sure we have other things to do. However in my case my dh says I am more like my shepherds than I know, rarely sit still. For example, today a trained till noon, came home, walked/played with the rest of the pack, took a nap, did laundry, fed the family, fed the dogs, cleaned up the kitchen, another play session, posted pictures, spent time with the kids discussion a tv show about teenage sex and teenage pregnancy. Phew, still have to finish last load of laundry, get a shower, and finally crash in bed.

Yeap, our lives are extra busy when we are caring for our animals, but I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1If you think the comment from Riley's Mom was meant to be critical, please give it another read. It was not, just helpful and factual. Apparently, a subsequent poster did, and perhaps also needs to read again.


Thank you, Timber1. My question was *not* meant to be critical. I'm simply wondering how everyone gets their life-stuff done and still manages to do what the dogs need (not necessarily in that order). 

I feel VERY guilty if I don't do something with them every single day (which isn't always possible). From what I was understanding it sounds like ideally this should be several hours a day. Like I'm supposed to live, eat, sleep and breathe nothing but my dogs or I'm being a bad Mom. 

I would like to thank those that helped me gain a little realistic perspective. It would help if I had places to take mine to run but I don't dare let Riley off-leash to run just about anywhere and everywhere. Some dog comes along and the poor thing won't know what hit it and it will be all over. 

Obviously, agility class (or any other class) and the dog park are out of the question. I'm not about to give my dog the opportunity to chew up someone else's dog. I have a very small yard so I can't set up an agility course there - they'd have enough room to be turning in circles and that's about it.

I've put a 2-week long ad in the paper looking for someone to let me use a few acres of their property (like farmland but AWAY from their own dogs & farm animals) 2-3x a week just so I have a safe place for them to run off some steam. Even offered to pay for this. Not one single reply. 

I've checked with no less than 12 businesses that have land around their buildings, safely away from the roads or other hazards. They all tell me no even though I tell them I'd sign a waiver regarding being injured on their property. 

Ok, so some people would call that making excuses, I call it trying but failing. I'm not the most imaginative person out there. If someone has some ideas, I'm all ears!


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

I am sorry no one replied to your request for a place to run your dogs. If you lived round here you would have 10 acres plus a pond in a heartbeat!! 
Are there no state parks where you could at least walk them on a long leash? What about little league parks when not in use? Umm, trying to think of other places. Equestrian centers when not in use. Basket ball courts that are not being used are sometimes fenced. Play grounds at off hours can be great for some agility fun. Contact some dog training clubbs in your area, maybe they could let you use their training facilities for a small fee when they have no classes. Even individual dog trainers usually have a field or indoor arena where they hold classes, maybe that would work. Is there a SAR unit in your area? Maybe they could let you know of area's they use that are dog friendly. I hope some of these ideas may help.


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## elly1210 (Jan 4, 2009)

Great information on this post so informative. It is hard to get everything done and there are times I feel guilty especially when the weather is so cold (for me) not the dog. 

I have trained Cabela, our min pin, to walk on the treadmill supervised for a 1/2 hour 2x a day it works like a charm. Sonny is too big for our treadmill but if you do have a treadmill that can accomadate a larger breed this is an excellent way to have them excercise. 

As for running, sometimes if you ask around you may find a park or a place to run. I was surprised when looking on Craigslist one day that someone advertised a small unoffical dog park by us and it works awesome.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Riley's Mom--what about schools? Usually schools are vacant after 5 p.m. and you can run around the parking lot/grassy areas? 

I'm not sure where you are, but are there any new neighborhoods being built in your area? These are great places for leash walking where there aren't any other dogs/kids/cars and most construction workers also go home by 5-6 p.m. Just stay on the roadways and away from nails/boards in/near the houses themselves.

Also, look for state/city parks where there are some woods and dogs are allowed. 

Good luck! If you're worried about your shep's dog aggressiveness, it may be a good time to look for a certified trainer so you can work on this with him--giving him mental stimulation and allowing your more feasibility in the future.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks for all the ideas. I do use a school playground at times, but they charge around so much w/each other romping and stomping that I'm afraid they're going to hurt themselves on the asphalt. Nissa once "tripped" or missed the small step-down from one area to another and almost fell completely down. He's also rolled her occasionally in this one place we've been to. Maybe I'm being to over-protective? I still have to use these areas in the overnight hours because people walk their dogs around here all times of the day and evening. I can't chance them coming into where we are at and Riley hurting their dog. Same thing with any place where people might show up with their dogs. So, it's kind of hard to use any of these areas in the middle of the night because it's so dark.

We did the trainer thing, it cost us a huge chunk of money and failed in that area. Trainer had him interacting fine with a number of dogs but this was all in a very controlled environment with highly trained K9's not just what you run into out and about on walks and in "our real world." We also tried a behaviorist - another waste of money. Both of them and other dog-people tell us he's not other-dog aggressive, he's just EXTREMELY dominant. The problem we've run into is that the few dogs he's actually met up with don't just walk up to him nicely, peace-ably. They lunge at us, jump towards his face, bark like crazy and cause other commotions so it's my understanding he's taking these approaches as either #1 he's scared so he's acting out first or #2 he's taking them as an attack of sorts so he's going to protect (not necessarily in that order). I can almost see his eyes glaze over "Lunch!" when it's a little dog. He has quite prey drive when it comes to small furry things.

I think someone mentioned that mental stimulation is more important than physical exercise? Anyone care to comment on that? I'm having a hard time grasping how giving their minds something to do more regularly is going to help with him being aggressive w/other dogs. 

I do like the idea of a long leash in a wooded area. No state parks near here, our city parks do not allow dogs. I have taken them up to one of the schools here where there is a field next to it and let them run there but when it snows, it becomes a sled-hill for kids and can't go there at night because if he kicks up a deer he'll chase it and I don't think I could stop him. So then we're talking about the possiblity of him getting hit by a car. 

I tell ya, it just sucks living in the city when you have a dog like this. I could kick myself for getting rid of my treadmill a few years ago. I had no idea at that point I would ever want to use it for my dog! Husband's going to kill me but when the rummage season starts up, that will be one thing I'll be looking for.

Sharon & Annabelle, you gave some ideas that I hadn't thought of, thanks!


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## rainydaygoods (Oct 13, 2008)

> Quote:
> I do like the idea of a long leash in a wooded area. No state parks near here, our city parks do not allow dogs.










That is awful. Can we start a letter-writing campaign on your behalf? (Is this common? I'm spoiled I guess... since moving to New Mexico I joke that it's state law to have a dog here. In Taos someone told me I was wrong... you have to have three dogs and an alpaca.)


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

It sounds to me like you are doing everything possible to help the dog, and aside from the dog, have plenty of other obligations.

Most folks on this board are trying to be very helpful, but for the most part I disagree with their suggestions. I do not think a place where the dog can run around, a long lease, or whatever will help in your situation.

Your bad experience with the trainer and so-called behavorist happens more then most of us would like to admit to. 

I also hired both a trainer and a behaviorist for my dog Timber. The results were not good, but finally I found a trainer that works with law enforcement groups and my rescue group. Timber's progress, along with some rescues we have taken has been remarkable.

I noted you are from SE Wisconsin and so is the guy that has helped Timber, and so many rescues. 

If you want to follow up please send me a personal E mail. And if he is not helpful you can blast me on this board. I am getting used to it. However, I think you will be pleasantly suprised, assuming you work with the guy, at how quickly your dog progresses.


It sounds to me like you are doing everything possible to help the dog, and aside from the dog, have plenty of other obligations.

Most folks on this board are trying to be very helpful, but for the most part I disagree with their suggestions. I do not think a place where the dog can run around, a long lease, or whatever will help in your situation.

Your bad experience with the trainer and so-called behavorist happens more then most of us would like to admit to. 

I also hired both a trainer and a behaviorist for my dog Timber. The results were not good, but finally I found a trainer that works with law enforcement groups and my rescue group. Timber's progress, along with some rescues we have taken has been remarkable.

I noted you are from SE Wisconsin and so is the guy that has helped Timber, and so many rescues. 

If you want to follow up please send me a personal E mail. And if he is not helpful you can blast me on this board. I am getting used to it. However, I think you will be pleasantly suprised, assuming you work with the guy, at how quickly your dog progresses.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Quote: That is awful. Can we start a letter-writing campaign on your behalf? (Is this common? I'm spoiled I guess... since moving to New Mexico I joke that it's state law to have a dog here. In Taos someone told me I was wrong... you have to have three dogs and an alpaca.)


Awww, that's very sweet of you, but you'd be wasting your time. This is definitely one of those "you can't fight City Hall" things.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Are you in Madison? I used to walk my dogs in Warner Park at night. When the cops came through I'd hide in the bushes. I kid you not! I'd also take them into the dog park there sometimes at night. It is lit and the cops never came down to that end of the park. There would sometimes be iffy things going on in the parking lot but no one bothered me. I would also walk them on the trails there at night all of the time. I would just wear my headlamp so I could see. We did get harassed by a momma fox and had to watch out for the small herd of deer that live there but otherwise no problems.


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## cherishedchessie (Jan 8, 2009)

Another good deterent for the barking is pennies in a pop can or a coffee can some use a bull horn, I use the pennies, at the onset of any barking I say no bark or queit and shake the can loudly, if she stops then I say good quiet and give her a treat. I have a foster dog that has resource guarding and food aggression issues that I am seeking to become more knowledgeable about. Neutering will help but keep in mind it takes awhile for the hormones to leave the body as soon as your vet gives the go ahead I would have him there in an instant.


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## pamlarouge (Dec 17, 2008)

You really think nuetering will help? We spoke to our vet about it, and I want to have the operation done as soon as he is able to do so-I think it would help solve future problems that we haven't even had yet (digging out, prowling, possible aggression, etc.) but I never thought it could help with barking. Good to know.

Sammy knows be quiet, shh, he just does not listen to it. We've tried spraying him with water when he barks, but most corrective methods just make it worse. It's really starting to get to everyone. There's the crazy Sammy barking fit, which is used when he's frustrated, and the "I'm so hungry please feed me" barking/whining during mealtimes. I think since we've tried "don't bark" it's time to try teaching the "speak" command. Hopefully we'll have better success with that.

I'm using positive reinforcement tactics only, but, to be honest, I wonder if his obedience will ever be reliable...is his behavior normal for his age? I know this attitude is in contrast to some of my more positive posts lately, but sometimes I just feel discouraged I guess. 

He still bites a lot-I'm constantly working on his bite inhibition, and he definitely knows what hurts and what doesn't. I've even exaggerated my reaction to gentle bites on clothing and hands in order to reinforce the fact that his biting causes pain. He still does a "mean" bite more often than I like, but I also know how to calm him down in this situation and show him that he will be rewarded for not biting. However, sometimes he bites me playfully and I KNOW he knows it hurts me, and I tell him don't touch or don't bite and there's no response unless I howl so loudly in mock pain that he jumps. Then he'll do it again a few seconds later. WTC? This doesn't happen constantly, and he has improved in the long run.

Mainly I see him get crazy with other people in the house-he bites them playfully, and it hurts because they've never reinforced the bite inhibition thing with him (they also pull away or wag a finger at him and say bad dog when he bites-the opposite of what I do)...but shouldn't he know that if it hurts me, it hurts them too? They tell him don't touch or don't bite, but they say it constantly and with no treat reinforcement, so why should he listen?

Again, he rarely barks or bites me, although we have good days and bad days. However, he will listen to my commands if he's barking at someone else (in theory, it works this way with everything else) or biting them. Of course, if there's a treat involved, he will almost always listen right away, or with a few barking/whining complaints and then obey. 

Out of the other 5 people in this house, I feel like I'm the only one who really cares about this dog, and that enfuriates me. I'm the only who exercises and trains him, and I'm the only one who trys to understand why he behaves the way he does. After all, he IS a puppy-he's five months old. We currently don't have access to a training class, so I'm doing my best with suggestions from this board and my past experience (can anyone recommend a positive reinforcement training book that I can use as my "bible"?). So far I think he's doing well, but, really, GSD's are puppies for 2 years (or so I've read) so he's not going to transform into an adult dog overnight. Everyone else in the family complains that he doesn't listen to them, he only listens to me blah blah blah. The only reason he listens to me is because I've spent a lot of time, every day, with him, and I keep a pocket full of treats at nearly all times. They just want him to obey immediately without any motivation-and they refuse to work with him. Also, they're behavior often counteracts with what I'm doing to train him properly. Aaaargh!!

Anyway, it is what it is-we're here, and nothing will change for some time. Although when my husband and I move out in a few months, I plan on taking Sammy with us-they don't have the dedication or patience to raise him properly here. And I don't want them to be stuck with a misbehaving dog who could possibly bite someone or be completely out of control later on. So, while there's no option of changing (in the immediate future) any of the factors that are making this difficult, I will continue to work with him. *sigh* Encouragement and tips are welcome!

Also, where the heck can I find a clicker in the U.S.? Again, in Poland, in my city they don't seem to exist.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I would neuter him, it can only help and won't hurt. 

I would also continue to look for trainers that may help. They are NOT the same (trust me the differences are huge, along with their backgrounds and experiences).

Have you used the head collars like the Gentle Leader. While normally I prefer the prong to train, it still allows the dogs head to go where it wants to and where the head goes the body follows.... the head collars will actually turn the head back and towards you, away from where the dog wants to go.

And you made a good point that it's OTHER dogs that can make things worse with their behavior. With the other dog staring/barking and snapping. AND then your dog doing the same, both at each other, there is only escalating of the situation. 

If, on the other hand, one of the 2 dogs looks away? (the one with the gentle leader on) immediately the atmosphere will calm some because this is a 'calming signal' that socialized dogs will recognize and cause them to back off a bit.

I would absolutely recommend the DVD 'Calming Signal' by Turid Rugaas. Will teach you to read you dog better and earlier before the explosion takes place ( once that happens, you just have a mess, if you can read your dog earlier you can actually train and manage the situation). And get the Gentle Leader to help control the head on walks.

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ I can't stress this DVD enough for you. Stuff she shows us, and recommends to do, and things she explains to look for on our dogs are small quiet calm things I would NEVER have known from any dog classes I had attended, but are a huge help for me. I see her methods used just naturally and NOT explained by tv dog specialist like Cesar Milan and Victoria Stillwell because they do them so fast and quickly I bet they don't even realize they are doing them! Kind of the 'natural' dog trainer thing that amazes us when we are having trouble with our own dogs.

The book is NOT as good, the DVD is the way to go cause is SHOWS what she talking about over and over. So you can really see and recognize the behaviors and see and recognize what we should do. Even better, alot of the dogs on the DVD are GSD's so making the visual for us even better. ( click here) 

It looks like she has a new book out too called My Dog Pulls. What Do I Do? (click here) I haven't use it but it got good reviews.


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