# Good Book for a Beginner?



## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

I do not have a GSD pup yet. Just doing some research now so when I'm ready, I'm ready 

I've found a couple good breeders and also a place that trains PP dogs and has members that compete in Shutzhund.

I plan to have my future pup PP trained but I think the whole Shutzhund is very cool as well. I loved watching videos of dogs and handlers working together.

A question I have, is there a beginners Shutzhund book that could teach me the basics of the sport?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Lots of good information on leerburg.com- dvds, streaming videos, articles, podcasts, many of them free


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Best course of action is find a club. Leerburg is great the DVD stuff there especially with Michael Ellis is excellent, but there is going to be certain stuff that's just best learned in person.


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

The closest club to me is 2 hours away. And I think you have to pay to visit. I do want to go visit but it isn't something I could do everyday. Thats why I'd like to try and find a book lol. But I'll check that site out


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

How experienced are you in marker training or dog training period?


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

I took my Lab to training at PetSmart. But I feel with obedience, I'm fairly decent.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Fairly decent as in you can get your dog to sit stand and down or fairly decent in minimal distraction or as in you know operant and classical conditioning techniques and could come up with a way to train any behavior you wanted if you had to?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Forget it. I'll just give you two book recommendations separately from all that Michael Ellis stuff.

EXCEL-ERATED LEARNING - EXPLAINING HOW DOGS LEARN AND HOW BEST TO TEACH THEM - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com

The Culture Clash: A Revolutionary New Way to Understanding the Relationship Between Humans and Domestic Dogs: Jean Donaldson: 9781888047059: Amazon.com: Books


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

Haha well I know how to teach my dogs things that I've been taught. I'm sure I could figure out some techniques to teach my dog a certain trick/task.

Thank you for the book recommendations!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

No matter what level you're at if you haven't read those before they will be MASSIVELY useful for helping you iron out training problems. If you are doing that kind of training on your own you'll inevitably run into small questions you never even considered asking anyone before, but they will give you enough background to come up with an answer on your own if you needed to and gave it enough thought. Good luck!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

2 hours to a club is doable...and you never know, a club member may be in your location so you can train together during the week. Or the TD can give you information to work on during the week if you aren't training with anyone. There are so many techniques and seeing them hands on is best. Timing is important as well as positioning for the rewards.
If I were to suggest a book, it would be Sheila Booths PURELY POSITIVE TRAINING - COMPANION TO COMPETITION - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Training the behavior by Gary Patterson 
Schutzhund obedience training in drive by shiela booth 

Those two are good IMO

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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> 2 hours to a club is doable...and you never know, a club member may be in your location so you can train together during the week. Or the TD can give you information to work on during the week if you aren't training with anyone. There are so many techniques and seeing them hands on is best. Timing is important as well as positioning for the rewards.
> If I were to suggest a book, it would be Sheila Booths PURELY POSITIVE TRAINING - COMPANION TO COMPETITION - Dog Training and Behavior - Dogwise.com


I'm not saying it isn't doable, I'm just saying that I probably wouldn't be able to go a lot. Unless I had a dog to bring for training.

Thank you for the book recommendation


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

Baillif said:


> No matter what level you're at if you haven't read those before they will be MASSIVELY useful for helping you iron out training problems. If you are doing that kind of training on your own you'll inevitably run into small questions you never even considered asking anyone before, but they will give you enough background to come up with an answer on your own if you needed to and gave it enough thought. Good luck!


Thank you!


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Training the behavior by Gary Patterson
> Schutzhund obedience training in drive by shiela booth
> 
> Those two are good IMO
> ...


Thank you!!


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Have this book


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Fairly decent as in you can get your dog to sit stand and down or fairly decent in minimal distraction or as in you know operant and classical conditioning techniques and could come up with a way to train any behavior you wanted if you had to?


I am very good at teaching basic obedience. Sit, down, stay, come. People always ask me why I'm taking the dogs to a traning class when I already trained them. To socialize them .....but I have zero experience in training Schuzthund. I do have a book, but going to a club is the best thing. Even when Kaleb is not working he watches the other dogs. He is totally focused on what they are doing. He gets so excited when it's his turn.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

It reminds me of those Stonnie Dennis videos where he is marker training all those malinois pups in an area where they can all see the one training on the table. They go absolutely nuts when it isn't their turn.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Go visit the clubs. I don't believe O.G. Indianapolis SchH and Polizei charges to just come out to watch (they are not meeting tomorrow due to weather conditions). Going out as often as possible to watch, even when you don't have a dog, shows commitment.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Plus there is bound to be someone there who will talk your ear off regarding the sport. Every club has at least one.


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Plus there is bound to be someone there who will talk your ear off regarding the sport. Every club has at least one.


Lmao!

Btw, your pic is hilarious hahaha!


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

lhczth said:


> Go visit the clubs. I don't believe O.G. Indianapolis SchH and Polizei charges to just come out to watch (they are not meeting tomorrow due to weather conditions). Going out as often as possible to watch, even when you don't have a dog, shows commitment.


I read somewhere that it did, and that thr money goes towards your yearly dues if/when you decide to join. I'll have to ask about it I guess.

After this weekend, I should be able to go. I work on Saturdays until 2 but he said they still go into the evenings so that I should be ok on time. I definitely want to go. I agree that getting a first hand look on what goes on is best, I just like reading books too


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The dogsport stuff if you really get serious is a lifestyle choice for you and the dog. When I first got curious about it I was not prepared nor did I have any clue just how involved it was, so be prepared for some culture shock. The books will help alleviate that to a degree.


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

Baillif said:


> The dogsport stuff if you really get serious is a lifestyle choice for you and the dog. When I first got curious about it I was not prepared nor did I have any clue just how involved it was, so be prepared for some culture shock. The books will help alleviate that to a degree.


Haha, thanks for the heads up!

Btw, when training a dog to do PP or Shutzhund, is it really different from normal obedience training? I have only been to obedience training so that's what I'm used to so I was just curious.

My lab was obviously not trained the way you would train a PP dog so I guess I'd have to work with them differently if I get a GSD?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Normal obedience as in pet obedience or competitive?


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## RaigenB (Dec 3, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Normal obedience as in pet obedience or competitive?


Sorry, pet obedience


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There is a world of difference between normal pet obedience training and the level of obedience required in SchH and PP. As others have said, you really need to go visit the club and watch some training. When you do, these differences will be crystal clear. You also need to carefully consider, and discuss with the trainers, your training goals. While SchH and PP have similar foundation work, they are different. The right dog can be trained in both, but realisticaly you also need to look at whether or not you truly need a PPD or do you just want to do this because you think it would be cool, and if you are capable of taking on the huge liability and responsibility that goes with having this sort of dog. Both SchH and PP require huge time committments and you cannot do this training on your own. You need to work with a trainer. If a 2hr drive to work with good trainers is not doable on a regular basis, then you need to reconsider your training goals.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

For dog sports, I'd recommend DVDs, or at the very least Youtube videos, before I would suggest books. You really need to be able to _see_ what people are doing before the written descriptions even make any sense, particularly since words don't always carry the same meanings in a sport context as they do in pet training.

For example, yesterday I took my foster dog out to meet a family of prospective adopters, and they wanted to know if she knew how to Heel.

Now, to me, "Heel" has a very specific meaning -- it's a tight, close, precise attention Heel for the competition ring. Inches matter. _Pongu_ can do a pretty decent attention Heel (when he's not freaking out) but it's completely lolworthy to me to imagine that a foster mutt with zero prior training would have what _I_ would consider a finished Heel within two weeks of arriving in my home.

But of course what the adopters really wanted to know was whether the foster dog could walk nicely on a loose leash without pulling too much, and there the answer was "yes." I just don't consider that anything close to formal Heeling.

I use this example because if you were just reading a written description then it might not be apparent what the differences actually look like in practice. When you _see_ a pet dog just strolling along on a loose leash and compare that to the visual image of a sport dog doing a competition Heel, it's immediately obvious what the difference is -- but it is something that you really, really have to watch to understand.

And that is triply true for learning how to train something, as opposed to just watching the finished product in action.


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