# My 11 month old GS is crazy!



## AngelaN

Hello everyone!
My name is Angela and I got Vlad when he was 12 weeks old. He has ALWAYS been a hand full. We did take him to puppy class when we first got him but, other than that, he's not had any other training. I work from home so he is with me all day. I do gate the kitchen so he can only stay in the kitchen with me. The door to the back yard stays open so he can roam/play, etc.
He is driving me absolutely insane. He has me crying some days because he is so destructive and hyper. 
He does get walked every day and played with in the yard. He also plays with my sister's boxer a few days a week.
What is his bad behavior, you ask? Anything and everything. He's in the trash probably 20 times a day, which sits right behind me and he KNOWS he's not allowed in it but will do it anyway. He barks at anything that moves.... A leaf, a bird, anything. If he can get his mouth on anything that he's not supposed to, he will. He jumps and nips at other family members when they walk into the kitchen. My biggest problem is that I have 3 grand daughters, ages 6,3 and 7 months. He get's so excited when they first walk in that there is NO WAY they can be around him for awhile, until he calms down. When they do come into his space he plays with them inappropriately. Jumping, nipping... We watch them all very closely and stay right with them to make sure he doesn't accidentally hurt them. 
The bottom line is that I say no a million times a day. I'm sure he thinks it's his name.... When he get's really bad I crate him. Mostly when he is displaying these behaviors I will tell him no and make him sit, which is a VERY TRYING exercise for him. He will try to walk away many times during this but I will just re-inforce the sit and keep him beside me. 
My family just says "He's still a puppy. He'll grow out of it." But, I'm not so sure. He truly drives me up the wall.
Any advice on what I need to do? Is this just "puppy" behavior? 
I'm so glad I've found this group. I'm sure I'll have many other questions throughout this GS journey! lol


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## Julian G

He's a puppy, a GSD puppy. He'll grow out of it. 
But really, just a few walks during the day is nowhere near enough. You have to tire them out. A flirt pole is a great toy, or just throw a tennis ball ten times and make him retrieve it. Whenever I tire out a dog, they are SO much better behaved. He's a naughty teenager right now. You have to train him every day, he's bored.


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## Magwart

Re the trash....stop fighting his nose, and out think him to get yourself some sanity here: secure the trash.

Put a baby latch on your kitchen sink cabinet, and put the trash under the sink. Done! 

The reason this matters is not just your own frustration level (20x a day...) but also his health -- there's stuff in the trash that's bad for him, and if you think you are frustrated now, wait till you get an intestinal obstruction and $1500 surgery to save his life. 

I say this as someone who lives with a mischievous blind dog who NEVER grew out of the urge to use his nose to get into stuff. His nose still gets him into trouble, and he's at least 9 years old. He loves the contents of the vacuum more than anything, and if he can get to it in the trash, he'll joyously fling the vacuum dirt all over the place (ever tried to clean a CEILING that the dog got filthy?!). Living with that dog taught us to make stuff inaccessible that we wanted to keep him out of.

Have you started basic OB yet? He's at the age where a good, rigorous group class would be great for him. It would help you start molding desirable behaviors too, and give you a positive outlet for all that mental energy.


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## LuvShepherds

One class is not enough. He needs to be in ongoing training until he is 18-24 months. I never stop training a puppy until the dog is at least 3 years old. He is bored and he has discovered if he is naughty, he gets your attention. I have a 10 month old working line male and he never does anything like that. I exercise him in the early morning. I work him daily, both physical and mental stimulation which tires him out. I give him treats frozen into a black Kong toy to keep him occupied. I work him again at lunch time on days when I'm home and again in the late afternoon. We have an older dog and they play and race around at least twice a day. The rest of the time, my dog is quiet and calm because I wear him out. I don't know your dog, he sounds more energetic than mine, but it might help.


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## Casto

sit on your dog training. 

Long Down

prolly known more as a long down. 

may be worth trying.


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## Dainerra

another thing I wonder is "what down time does the dog have" quiet time where he is expected to entertain himself or even to simply stay in one spot and be still? There are definite down sides to working with home and your dog spending all of his time with you.


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## Chip18

Aww ...geez, here I go again. With this dog and your problems ... the picture you posted ... points to the sources of your problems. 

*Rules, Structure and Limitations, *you most likely "think" your providing that ... but you are not. But ... don't sweat .it .. your not alone. The "good news" however is you've taken the most important first step in getting this solved ie ... "out think your dog." What I'm doing ... is not working ... time to do something different??

And thus far ... what you have learned, is first ... you can't "exercise" your way out of this and that the word "NO" without consequences ... means "Nothing" to the dog. He simply does not believe you! 

If this dog went away to a "Balanced" Trainer" (a trainer that believes in teaching a Dog "NO" and offering consequences, to the dog for "Poor Choices.") This dog's life would have "Structure, Rules and Limitations!" 

He would be Crate Trained, Play Dates would be Structured, he would be obedience trained, and consequences for "Poor Choices" would be delivered and most likely he would be conditioned to a "Prong Collar, pretty much most "effective" Trainers use one. (Prongs are not my thing ... but that's not my point here.)

And he would be "trained" in "Place" or ... "The long Down." I'm not really sure how folks can "expect" a dog to know how to "Chill the Heck out" if they have not been "Trained" to do so ... but whatever. 

And the "No, No, No thing and zero effect thing ... yeah ... that's not gonna work, without delivering an "Aversive!" A "consequence" for "Poor Choices!" "I" could do it with a "verbal marker" most likely ... dogs don't want to hear me say "NO!" 

But failing that ... "I" would use a "SLL" and a leash correction to make the point that "No" means "No" most others would use a "Prong Collar." Still that's great for me and other folks that "Know How To Train a Dog and deliver a proper aversive" but I'm gonna guess that's not much use for you?? 

Well no problem for people that struggle with a "proper correction" ie "Aversive" you can use the "Air Thingie" ie "Pet Convincer" it takes 
the question of a proper correction out of an owner's hand!

Hmm and guess maybe I need to say don't aim it the dogs freaking eyes or ears?? I've never heard of anyone doing that ...but people do all kinds of crap one would not expect???

At anyrate ... a blueprint as it were is here: 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7837361-post12.html

By and large ... that is what getting it right looks like, so this said as always ... ask questions and welcome aboard.


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## llombardo

All dogs, not just GSDs should do several obedience classes. I agree with the earlier post that for the first year to year and a half there should be ongoing training. With that training comes obedience and socialization. The socialization is not contact but being around different things. I can easily train a dog at home but I go to classes with each one so they can experience it. Crate training also helps. Like anything else it's a tool and if done right, most dogs don't need a crate after a while but might still choose to go into an open crate to relax. 

They need physical and mental exercise. Some might require more mental exercise then physical, but you have to find the balance. Just like with kids you pick your battles. For instance, you know he gets into the garbage, so while working on other stuff, get a garbage can that locks or put it in another room until you can focus on that--this is for his safety as well. Once you teach him leave it as a command that can go a long way with the garbage issue, but you can't do one without the other.

Keep his mind busy so that he doesn't find ways to keep himself busy. Play tug with him, find it, get puzzles, etc. A tired dog is a happy dog and that leads to a happy owner.


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## AngelaN

I am definitely going to apply some of these excellent recommendations. I mean, duh! Put the trash up! lol... I just guess I wanted him to obey but my "no" isn't working too well. He does get played with all day long. Whether it's throwing a ball or tug of war but I do realize he's not getting a nice long "wear out play". 
I'm going to look into training in my area as well.
My last baby was a Lab and he was the model of a perfect dog. He passed a year and a half ago.
I thought I would try my hand at a GSD... So different. :grin2:
Since Vlad is only with me for most of the day, I get the brunt of all the bad behavior. It's like taking care of a 2 year old toddler all day. Thanks for your suggestions and help. Any more words of advice would be welcomed!


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## car2ner

What a gorgeous pup! When My two year old was a pup he was in need of many games, many walks, adventures and training. When on walks if he grabbed the leash it meant he wanted more than just the walk..we did obedience exercises or found branches (yes branches) for him to carry. Now that he is an young adult he has learned to value down time, but still loves adventures and games. 

My pup is ten months and now the one always asking to play. We waited until our big boy was trained up the way we liked before bringing a pup home so she is learning many house rules from him. When we go out into the yard, he romps and plays but she runs circles around the yard while he is resting in the shade. Some day she will also value down time and I'll actually miss the crazy full of life joy of puppyhood. 

You've gotten good advice here. Keep up the training. Do at least one adventure a week, more are better. Play games. One day you'll wonder what happened to the crazy pup you had and how you ended up with the stunning adult.


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## AngelaN

The picture I posted points to my problems? You seem annoyed. I am a new GSD owner and just needed advice. These things didn't happen with my lab and I want to nip them in the bud before he is an adult.


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## DutchKarin

I don't think he will "outgrow it" until you take up the commitment of owning and handling a dog and up your commitment and investment in training. Contact an IPO/Schutzhund club and find a trainer you can work with. Make a Good Canine Citizen test your goal. This is not the dog's fault. He actually sounds like a fun dog that is incredibly bored and under stimulated. What are you willing to change to help him and your relationship with him reach its full potential. It is now or never. And consider that this is an investment for a long time. Not one 6 week course. Your dog won't mature until around 3. 

Good luck but realize that this rests all on you. Hope you will rise to the occasion.


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## AngelaN

DutchKarin said:


> I don't think he will "outgrow it" until you take up the commitment of owning and handling a dog and up your commitment and investment in training. Contact an IPO/Schutzhund club and find a trainer you can work with. Make a Good Canine Citizen test your goal. This is not the dog's fault. He actually sounds like a fun dog that is incredibly bored and under stimulated. What are you willing to change to help him and your relationship with him reach its full potential. It is now or never. And consider that this is an investment for a long time. Not one 6 week course. Your dog won't mature until around 3.
> 
> Good luck but realize that this rests all on you. Hope you will rise to the occasion.


I've never said that he will outgrow it... I simply wanted advice since I have never owned a GSD. I've never said I wouldn't commit or invest... I just think it's kind of rude to assume I'm a lazy owner and am not willing to "rise to the occasion".
I've already replied that I'm going to look into a trainer and use other suggestions. I'm just looking for a little help, not insults.


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## LuvShepherds

AngelaN said:


> My last baby was a Lab and he was the model of a perfect dog. He passed a year and a half ago.
> 
> I thought I would try my hand at a GSD... So different. :grin2:
> Since Vlad is only with me for most of the day, I get the brunt of all the bad behavior. It's like taking care of a 2 year old toddler all day. Thanks for your suggestions and help. Any more words of advice would be welcomed!


My first German Shepherd was perfect, too. Except I forgot all the early manners training we did to get to that point. This puppy can grow into a "perfect" adult with the right training.

The only thing I can add is that our dogs need attention and they need down time. I watch for things my puppy finds soothing and then reinforce good behavior after he is tired by giving him quiet time, too, with the soothing object. He couldn't stand to be alone but he likes chewing. So I keep a few special toys for times when I want him to be alone and he has learned to calm himself. He also likes music, so I use that to reinforce and reward calm behavior.

The other advice is that it takes a long time to reinforce good behaviors. My puppy is 10 months and he know he can't chew on things like throw rugs. But if I don't watch him and he gets bored or anxious, he will drag them around the room. Since any teeth in a rug could lead to destroying it, that isn't allowed. He knows I don't like it but the temptation is too strong. So if he even touched a rug with his mouth, he gets a Leave It command.


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## ausdland

Get a trash can with a lid you step to open. 
Find a very good obedience trainer and go once a week.
No can mean many things. Put a pinch collar on him with a 10' lead with no handle and have him wear that. Learn how to use the pinch collar. When people come into the kitchen either step on his lead or grab the lead, tell him off and give him a correction as he starts to jump on someone. Sounds like he needs discipline, training and some thing like nose work to do. I you're not the alpha dog, you're going to have your hands full.


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## LuvShepherds

AngelaN said:


> The picture I posted points to my problems? You seem annoyed. I am a new GSD owner and just needed advice. These things didn't happen with my lab and I want to nip them in the bud before he is an adult.


He didn't explain. The dog is on furniture. One belief is that a dog allowed to rest at the same height as its owner will not respect the owner. Mine aren't allowed on furniture for other reasons so I haven't tested that out. If you get into more obedience and inside training, your dog should be fine.


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## ksotto333

I used to crate my dogs when they were younger and more excitable just before my granddaughter arrived. She's almost 5, and is usually wound up when she arrives, that would get the dogs more excited. I'd let the pup out a little later, and we would throw her ball a few times to let her stretch out and then calm down. She also gives them treats, but they have to sit, down or shake first. She loves that they obey, and they love getting the treats so it's a win/win situation.


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## ausdland

LuvShepherds said:


> He didn't explain. The dog is on furniture. One belief is that a dog allowed to rest at the same height as its owner will not respect the owner. Mine aren't allowed on furniture for other reasons so I haven't tested that out. If you get into more obedience and inside training, your dog should be fine.


My pup is allowed on the couch and definitely respects me.


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## LuvShepherds

All are different.


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## MineAreWorkingline

LuvShepherds said:


> He didn't explain. The dog is on furniture. One belief is that a dog allowed to rest at the same height as its owner will not respect the owner. Mine aren't allowed on furniture for other reasons so I haven't tested that out. If you get into more obedience and inside training, your dog should be fine.


I have always let all my dogs on the furniture. IMO, it is a non issue blown way out of proportion. In fact I find the opposite. I find it can be a good bonding opportunity, some dogs love to come on the bed and cuddle.


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## LuvShepherds

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I have always let all my dogs on the furniture. IMO, it is a non issue blown way out of proportion. In fact I find the opposite. I find it can be a good bonding opportunity, some dogs love to come on the bed and cuddle.


I know and I stopped fighting it here. Our previous trainer thinks it causes aggression, which it might but by then there are so many other things going wrong, the furniture is the least of it.


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## MineAreWorkingline

LuvShepherds said:


> I know and I stopped fighting it here. Our previous trainer thinks it causes aggression, which it might but by then there are so many other things going wrong, the furniture is the least of it.


I have found that although they can go on the furniture, they usually don't, or seldom, take advantage of it. What I have also found that it is mostly the females looking for a softer place to lay.


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## Chip18

AngelaN said:


> The picture I posted points to my problems? You seem annoyed. I am a new GSD owner and just needed advice. These things didn't happen with my lab and I want to nip them in the bud before he is an adult.












Sorry if I "seemed annoyed" ... that was not my intent ... my bad. But to "explain" ...

We have tons of threads on the "Dogs on Beds and Dogs on furniture thing." Dogs on Bed/Furniture is a "Right that needs to be "Earned" not a "privilege" freely given because ... "well he's my dog and stuff" as I would put it. 

It's not about being a "Neat Freak" as it were, it's about "leadership" and who sets the terms. Hang around here long enough and you'll see it yourself eventually. The thread will be "I have a "problem" with Rufus and most likely they'll post a picture of said "Rufus" on the couch with Remote in hand. :grin2:

The little things all add up and "then" when the owner tries to establish "who's in charge." The dog gets "upset" and we get yet another "My Dog Growled at me" thread. Depending on the owner ... it could be "Off to the pound you go, time!"  

As a general rule "Labs and Goldens" aren't real big on challenging an owner for "head of household." 

"Working with the dog in front of you" ... is the "secret" to success, the "my other dog" thing leaves people unable to "perceive differences." Or "slow" to perceive them in anycase ... my first WL GSD ... was pretty clever and he caught me off guard!. Worked out fine in the long run, but that's another story. 

Back on pointe ... here you go, if you want to know where I'm coming from. But I "apparently" need to issues a "Graphic Imagines of Dog Bite victims warning!" :

Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog

Gonna add that a few "Pro's" disagree with some of the things "Leerburgh" recommends." 

Personally I favor the approach I put together with advise from "Balanced Trainers" I feel "anyone" can those things. They just need to put in the effort. :


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## gsdluvr

According to Max von Stephanitz definition of a German Shepherd Pup: "The wildest ruffian, maddest rascal, an incorrigible provoker of strife!" (I think that's the quote)

You have the perfect GSD puppy!! Congratulations!! LOL!

Healthy exercise is a must, but also motivational OB can wear out their minds. I have seen many trainers who crate their pups take them out to do 1 or 2 minutes of OB when the are restless.
I have plenty of time and am continuously doing little ob. games with my pups/dogs. When I am busy, I put them in an ex- pen with plenty of their favorite toys or what ever. They do need to learn to chill by themselves.

All of my sessions are VERY short and fun. Read up on NILF! Enjoy your pup, he looks like fun to me!!!


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## Ripley2016

AngelaN said:


> Hello everyone!
> My name is Angela and I got Vlad when he was 12 weeks old. He has ALWAYS been a hand full. We did take him to puppy class when we first got him but, other than that, he's not had any other training. I work from home so he is with me all day. I do gate the kitchen so he can only stay in the kitchen with me. The door to the back yard stays open so he can roam/play, etc.
> He is driving me absolutely insane. He has me crying some days because he is so destructive and hyper.
> He does get walked every day and played with in the yard. He also plays with my sister's boxer a few days a week.
> What is his bad behavior, you ask? Anything and everything. He's in the trash probably 20 times a day, which sits right behind me and he KNOWS he's not allowed in it but will do it anyway. He barks at anything that moves.... A leaf, a bird, anything. If he can get his mouth on anything that he's not supposed to, he will. He jumps and nips at other family members when they walk into the kitchen. My biggest problem is that I have 3 grand daughters, ages 6,3 and 7 months. He get's so excited when they first walk in that there is NO WAY they can be around him for awhile, until he calms down. When they do come into his space he plays with them inappropriately. Jumping, nipping... We watch them all very closely and stay right with them to make sure he doesn't accidentally hurt them.
> The bottom line is that I say no a million times a day. I'm sure he thinks it's his name.... When he get's really bad I crate him. Mostly when he is displaying these behaviors I will tell him no and make him sit, which is a VERY TRYING exercise for him. He will try to walk away many times during this but I will just re-inforce the sit and keep him beside me.
> My family just says "He's still a puppy. He'll grow out of it." But, I'm not so sure. He truly drives me up the wall.
> Any advice on what I need to do? Is this just "puppy" behavior?
> I'm so glad I've found this group. I'm sure I'll have many other questions throughout this GS journey! lol



Your dog is sooooo handsome and I love his name.

I have a 17 week old GSD and I completely relate to your comment about how this is a whole new type of dog from having a lab (I had a lab, golden and husky previously.)

I have a stainless steel garbage can with a lid that has a foot pedal so the trash is never something my dogs can get into. I agree with the others who say just make the trash inaccessible. 

With the grandkids, I would suggest that you put him on the leash and prong collar when they come over, at least until he settles down. Make him sit and only allow them to interact when he is sitting and being calm. Ask them to try to come in as calmly as possible to keep the energy level a little lower. 

I also agree that more exercise and more training will probably help. Try to get him out three times a day for walks and do a little obedience training with him once or twice a day. Teach him some tricks. Keep his brain occupied. If he is running around looking for trouble it means he is bored and needs something more from you. Good luck


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## Nigel

I don't think them being on the couch in and of itself is necessarily a problem. If someone is trying to rectify some issues with house manners then the "denying or allowing" of couch privileges can give them one more area of control.


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## voodoolamb

First I would like to say that Vlad is very very handsome!

You've gotten some good advice, but I do have two questions for you: Why did you get a German shepherd? And what research did you do on the breed before bringing him home?

I ask because you seem to compare your boy to your previous lab quite a bit. Having had experience with both, they are VERY different dogs. Different drives, temperament, intellect, etc. I'm curious as to why the jump from a happy-go-lucky, easy going, sporting breed to such a serious, driven, working/herding type?

It sounds like you have a typical gsd puppy, albeit a under stimulated and under trained one. 

What do you do to exercise this boy's brain every day? Do you do any puzzle toys? Foraging opportunities? Daily training sessions? 

I introduced my boy to nose work around that age. He loves it. It's a great way to exercise the mind and give him a job to complete. It's also a game you can make progressively more difficult. 

How did you train sit? Have you ever considered clicker training? I've never had a dog that has loved the process of training like my shepherd. Look into behavior shaping. We play little games where I will shape a behavior. Sometimes it turns into a command, sometimes not. Silly stuff like circling the ottoman 3 times. Trick training is awesome. 

Does he have a solid place command or long down stay? I too work from home and that is one of the most important commands. He has his mat in my office. I'll put him into place and give him a stuffed kong. He stays there, not getting into trouble, until he is released. Works better then having crates all over the house.

You say that you tell him "no" a million times a day. Does he actually understand what "no" means? It seems silly, but if you give a dog a command with out reinforcing it, it starts to lose meaning. I very rarely use the word no, but when I do the pup's know that they are one step away from a come to jesus moment. For most day to day I am more of a fan of redirection and management (putting up the trash, giving a sit or down when meeting new people, etc)

Also if you are saying "No" a million times a day... you need to be saying "Yes!" Or "Good boy!" at least 20 million times. You need to be setting the dog up to succeed. Lots and lots of praise for good behavior. Not just when you give a command either, when the pup chooses on his own a behavior you want, like laying quietly at your feet, Mark that behavior and reward it! Far more praise then corrections is a good policy for just about all dogs, but it is super important for gsds ime. That's one of the differences between labs and gsds. A shepherd tends to need a firmer hand, and stronger leadership then a lab, BUT they also seem to be more sensitive then a lab as well. 

It also seems like you may be getting to the point where a verbal correction isn't enough. 

I agree with the others that getting into another training classes would be the way to go for you! 

Good luck with that handsome boy!


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## AngelaN

LuvShepherds said:


> He didn't explain. The dog is on furniture. One belief is that a dog allowed to rest at the same height as its owner will not respect the owner. Mine aren't allowed on furniture for other reasons so I haven't tested that out. If you get into more obedience and inside training, your dog should be fine.


Yes, I realized that after looking at the photo a few times. :wink2:
We never let our lab on our furniture and planned to do the same with Vlad. I think we got a little soft because he was "sooo cute"... However, he's not allowed in the living room, on the couch unless we are in there with him. He's actually not allowed in any other part of the house unless I am with him.


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## AngelaN

Chip18 said:


> Sorry if I "seemed annoyed" ... that was not my intent ... my bad. But to "explain" ...
> 
> We have tons of threads on the "Dogs on Beds and Dogs on furniture thing." Dogs on Bed/Furniture is a "Right that needs to be "Earned" not a "privilege" freely given because ... "well he's my dog and stuff" as I would put it.
> 
> It's not about being a "Neat Freak" as it were, it's about "leadership" and who sets the terms. Hang around here long enough and you'll see it yourself eventually. The thread will be "I have a "problem" with Rufus and most likely they'll post a picture of said "Rufus" on the couch with Remote in hand. :grin2:
> 
> The little things all add up and "then" when the owner tries to establish "who's in charge." The dog gets "upset" and we get yet another "My Dog Growled at me" thread. Depending on the owner ... it could be "Off to the pound you go, time!"
> 
> As a general rule "Labs and Goldens" aren't real big on challenging an owner for "head of household."
> 
> "Working with the dog in front of you" ... is the "secret" to success, the "my other dog" thing leaves people unable to "perceive differences." Or "slow" to perceive them in anycase ... my first WL GSD ... was pretty clever and he caught me off guard!. Worked out fine in the long run, but that's another story.
> 
> Back on pointe ... here you go, if you want to know where I'm coming from. But I "apparently" need to issues a "Graphic Imagines of Dog Bite victims warning!" :
> 
> Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog
> 
> Gonna add that a few "Pro's" disagree with some of the things "Leerburgh" recommends."
> 
> Personally I favor the approach I put together with advise from "Balanced Trainers" I feel "anyone" can those things. They just need to put in the effort. :


It's funny that you should say this because I have hundreds of photos of him and this is the only one where he is on the couch... lol.
He is only allowed on the couch at night when we are having family down time. He's not allowed in any room in the house except the living room and kitchen, and that's only when I'm with him.
I have very strict boundaries set when it comes to roaming. So, even though it may seem he's the boss, that's not the issue at all.

I actually AM a neat freak, believe it or not. I used to always tell everyone I would never let a dog on my furniture. Time changes things... and so does big puppy eyes. It may be wrong for some. I don't think it is for us. 

I am definitely working, already, on exercising and playing more with him. 
I'm going to go and search for some reputable trainers in my area.

I, in no way, thought he was going to be like my lab. It's just A LOT different.


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## Steve Strom

To me, the whole thing with the furniture comes down to the dogs perception of what being there is. If there's any competition over it, or anything that looks like they're seeking comfort from it, like its a safe place kinda thing. I wouldn't allow it period. I think what you may find with your shepherd more then the lab is how important consistency can be. No grey areas. Where the lab will just roll with whatever, the shepherd may not. Like you said, its just different.


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## AngelaN

voodoolamb said:


> First I would like to say that Vlad is very very handsome!
> 
> You've gotten some good advice, but I do have two questions for you: Why did you get a German shepherd? And what research did you do on the breed before bringing him home?
> 
> I ask because you seem to compare your boy to your previous lab quite a bit. Having had experience with both, they are VERY different dogs. Different drives, temperament, intellect, etc. I'm curious as to why the jump from a happy-go-lucky, easy going, sporting breed to such a serious, driven, working/herding type?
> 
> It sounds like you have a typical gsd puppy, albeit a under stimulated and under trained one.
> 
> What do you do to exercise this boy's brain every day? Do you do any puzzle toys? Foraging opportunities? Daily training sessions?
> 
> I introduced my boy to nose work around that age. He loves it. It's a great way to exercise the mind and give him a job to complete. It's also a game you can make progressively more difficult.
> 
> How did you train sit? Have you ever considered clicker training? I've never had a dog that has loved the process of training like my shepherd. Look into behavior shaping. We play little games where I will shape a behavior. Sometimes it turns into a command, sometimes not. Silly stuff like circling the ottoman 3 times. Trick training is awesome.
> 
> Does he have a solid place command or long down stay? I too work from home and that is one of the most important commands. He has his mat in my office. I'll put him into place and give him a stuffed kong. He stays there, not getting into trouble, until he is released. Works better then having crates all over the house.
> 
> You say that you tell him "no" a million times a day. Does he actually understand what "no" means? It seems silly, but if you give a dog a command with out reinforcing it, it starts to lose meaning. I very rarely use the word no, but when I do the pup's know that they are one step away from a come to jesus moment. For most day to day I am more of a fan of redirection and management (putting up the trash, giving a sit or down when meeting new people, etc)
> 
> Also if you are saying "No" a million times a day... you need to be saying "Yes!" Or "Good boy!" at least 20 million times. You need to be setting the dog up to succeed. Lots and lots of praise for good behavior. Not just when you give a command either, when the pup chooses on his own a behavior you want, like laying quietly at your feet, Mark that behavior and reward it! Far more praise then corrections is a good policy for just about all dogs, but it is super important for gsds ime. That's one of the differences between labs and gsds. A shepherd tends to need a firmer hand, and stronger leadership then a lab, BUT they also seem to be more sensitive then a lab as well.
> 
> It also seems like you may be getting to the point where a verbal correction isn't enough.
> 
> I agree with the others that getting into another training classes would be the way to go for you!
> 
> Good luck with that handsome boy!


Thanks to everyone for the compliments. He is a very handsome boy.
Again, I never expected him to be my lab. That's just the only dog I've ever had and he was the best boy in the world. So, my Vlad has given me a work out.

I did do some research on GSD's but obviously not enough. To tell you the truth, I just loved the way they looked. Not a good reason to pick a breed, I know... now. :grin2:

Vlad is SUPER smart. He's know a lot of tricks/commands since he was 13-14 weeks old. I actually clicker trained him with all. 
I've never tried nose work but it's definitely something I'm going to learn about. 
He doesn't have a long down stay. I didn't realize it's importance until reading a lot of posts on here. I wonder... He HATES to lay down when told to. Do you think this is this a sign of defiance? I have to actually push him down when I tell him to lay.... unless I have a treat. :/

I try to give him a lot of positive praise but probably not enough. At this point, he's like a 1 year old baby telling them no... He knows, he just doesn't listen.
Obviously I have a lot to learn. I appreciate all of the input and advice!


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## LuvShepherds

Chip18 said:


> Sorry if I "seemed annoyed" ... that was not my intent ... my bad. But to "explain" ...
> 
> We have tons of threads on the "Dogs on Beds and Dogs on furniture thing." Dogs on Bed/Furniture is a "Right that needs to be "Earned" not a "privilege" freely given because ... "well he's my dog and stuff" as I would put it.
> 
> It's not about being a "Neat Freak" as it were, it's about "leadership" and who sets the terms. Hang around here long enough and you'll see it yourself eventually. The thread will be "I have a "problem" with Rufus and most likely they'll post a picture of said "Rufus" on the couch with Remote in hand. :grin2:
> 
> The little things all add up and "then" when the owner tries to establish "who's in charge." The dog gets "upset" and we get yet another "My Dog Growled at me" thread. Depending on the owner ... it could be "Off to the pound you go, time!"
> 
> As a general rule "Labs and Goldens" aren't real big on challenging an owner for "head of household."


Chip. I have to say it. That giant scary baby picture is annoying.


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## LuvShepherds

AngelaN said:


> Thanks to everyone for the compliments. He is a very handsome boy.
> Again, I never expected him to be my lab. That's just the only dog I've ever had and he was the best boy in the world. So, my Vlad has given me a work out.
> 
> I did do some research on GSD's but obviously not enough. To tell you the truth, I just loved the way they looked. Not a good reason to pick a breed, I know... now. :grin2:
> 
> Vlad is SUPER smart. He's know a lot of tricks/commands since he was 13-14 weeks old. I actually clicker trained him with all.
> I've never tried nose work but it's definitely something I'm going to learn about.
> He doesn't have a long down stay. I didn't realize it's importance until reading a lot of posts on here. I wonder... He HATES to lay down when told to. Do you think this is this a sign of defiance? I have to actually push him down when I tell him to lay.... unless I have a treat. :/
> 
> I try to give him a lot of positive praise but probably not enough. At this point, he's like a 1 year old baby telling them no... He knows, he just doesn't listen.
> Obviously I have a lot to learn. I appreciate all of the input and advice!


It's a good enough reason. I'm glad you are asking for help and listening. He doesn't sound that bad to me. More typical than not. Mine is 10 months and has started getting pushy with my other dog and with me, so I stepped up his training. He has one exercise he doesn't like, so I make him work on it. It involves balance and focus. I don't spend long on it but it wears him out because it requires several skills at once, listening, watching and body awareness. In fact, he just went from pestering my other dog and clawing at me to a short training session to his crate on his own, for a nap. The second he acts up, the leash goes on and we work. The bad behavior stops because he can't keep it up,while he is working.


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## Chip18

LuvShepherds said:


> I know and I stopped fighting it here. Our previous trainer thinks it causes aggression, which it might but by then there are so many other things going wrong, the furniture is the least of it.


I would tend to disagree with that "trainer," most likely he formed that "opinion" based on his clientele?? Kind of like if your a Carpenter every solution looks like a nail.

Most likely he'd have a different view if he did open forums?? A better opportunity to see what the bigger picture looks like?? By and large most people that "don't" have issues with dogs on furniture ... don't need a "Dog Trainer" so he'd not be getting much input from them?? 

I am a Dogs on beds and furniture kinda guy ... never give it a second thought. Never had any "issues" with my prior dogs. They did not "earn" that right ... it was freely given casue they were my dogs and stuff. 

Rocky was a rescue (7 month old) OS WL GSD chose not to get on Beds or Furniture ... back in the day. I never thought anything of it?? For all I know he was trained not to???

No Bed or Furniture was not a factor in my issues to come with him! But not being "aware" of the nuances of "Rules, Structure and Limitations" was. 

Blown back from not having a full understanding of that ... would be "delivered" in another 6 to 7 months. He managed to deftly side step every situation I was familiar with??? 

To get it right ... "I had to work with the dog in front of me" turned out fine. 

But as you said ... "usually other things going on." If people are struggling with issues "usually" bed and furniture privileges freely given is one of them. Pretty much that simple as I am want to say.


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## Chip18

AngelaN said:


> He doesn't have a long down stay. I didn't realize it's importance until reading a lot of posts on here. I wonder... He HATES to lay down when told to. Do you think this is this a sign of defiance? I have to actually push him down when I tell him to lay.... unless I have a treat. :/


Uh oh hm I was actually currently working on the Sit, thing but ... I'll skip ahead because this one is easy. 

If your starting to work on "Place" and you should. If he wants to stand there for up to 2 hours or longer ... let him go for it!

"Place" and a quote from "Bailiff" here "helps to train "calmness into a dog." It's an "area" the dog's only job is to remain in this "area" until released. 

See the thread watch the clips ... no one is laying "hands on the dog."


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## Chip18

AngelaN said:


> Yes, I realized that after looking at the photo a few times. :wink2:
> We never let our lab on our furniture and planned to do the same with Vlad. I think we got a little soft because he was "sooo cute"... However, he's not allowed in the living room, on the couch unless we are in there with him. He's actually not allowed in any other part of the house unless I am with him.


 Hm OK "this" is interesting! 

Usually if people don't get ticked off and leave, they keep explaining and more details come out! Your first post made it sound like you had very little control over the dog. But "now" it seems such is "not" the case??? Since you have taught him to respect boundaries ... clearly that is not the case. So ... what your struggling with are simply issues you've not ever seen?? 

No problem the "Sit" is easy if you don't address it directly ... flank the dog. Address the issue of Sit "indirectly" looks like this:






Upward pressure on the leash two fingers on the butt. 

And again "Flank the Dog" I got that term from Sean O'shea by the way ... for those that are curious, that would be this guy:
https://thegooddog.net/ 

He uses to much "stuff" for my taste but I listen to him all the time ... Q&A Saturdays on Youtube him and Jeff Gellman ... this guy:

Solid K9 Training aggressive dog rehab, dog anxiety - Rehabilitation and Family Dog Training he's on the internet uh daily! 

But ... moving on instead of doing the Sit/Sit/Sit thing, take a step back and do "Sit on the Dog" it's in the "Boxer" thread but it looks like this:

Energy - it's all about confid-tude

You can start at home and then move out into the Real World, the goal is not interaction with people, just observation. You stop and Sit ... that's it. You make "No" demands of the dog, he can Sit or Stand as he sits fit, you tell him nothing. Let him figure out it as it were, when he does let it go with a simple pat and a good dog ... maybe a cookie?? I'm pretty cautious with the use of treats myself. 

Sometimes ... less is more.


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## AngelaN

Chip18 said:


> Hm OK "this" is interesting!
> 
> Usually if people don't get ticked off and leave, they keep explaining and more details come out! Your first post made it sound like you had very little control over the dog. But "now" it seems such is "not" the case??? Since you have taught him to respect boundaries ... clearly that is not the case. So ... what your struggling with are simply issues you've not ever seen??
> 
> No problem the "Sit" is easy if you don't address it directly ... flank the dog. Address the issue of Sit "indirectly" looks like this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv75lADEbRM&list=PLJ7o1pCCSIaFSs_d0zqIrT6c_rK3yWDYK&index=4
> 
> Upward pressure on the leash two fingers on the butt.
> 
> And again "Flank the Dog" I got that term from Sean O'shea by the way ... for those that are curious, that would be this guy:
> https://thegooddog.net/
> 
> He uses to much "stuff" for my taste but I listen to him all the time ... Q&A Saturdays on Youtube him and Jeff Gellman ... this guy:
> 
> Solid K9 Training aggressive dog rehab, dog anxiety - Rehabilitation and Family Dog Training he's on the internet uh daily!
> 
> But ... moving on instead of doing the Sit/Sit/Sit thing, take a step back and do "Sit on the Dog" it's in the "Boxer" thread but it looks like this:
> 
> Energy - it's all about confid-tude
> 
> You can start at home and then move out into the Real World, the goal is not interaction with people, just observation. You stop and Sit ... that's it. You make "No" demands of the dog, he can Sit or Stand as he sits fit, you tell him nothing. Let him figure out it as it were, when he does let it go with a simple pat and a good dog ... maybe a cookie?? I'm pretty cautious with the use of treats myself.
> 
> Sometimes ... less is more.


That is some excellent information. I usually don't have problems with him out of a sit... But, he doesn't want to stay sitting. As I was reading your comment Vlad was getting in the trash. I told him no and made him lay. He got up. I told him again to lay. He's asleep beside me now.  I really need to be consistent. 
I have tried over and over to walk him. It's a ridiculous task. I may look into the prong collar. We have him walking on a gentle lead now and even my 13 year old son can walk him. And, Vlad is 77 pounds. :surprise:
I am eating up all of this information! Thanks so much!


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## Chip18

AngelaN said:


> As I was reading your comment Vlad was getting in the trash. I told him no and made him lay. He got up. I told him again to lay. He's asleep beside me now.  I really need to be consistent.


Aww yesss ... the "Trash Can!" I knew that was still out there. 

I'm not really an advocate of the "Stronger Trash Can" school of thought, I'm more of a "make better choices dog" or there will be "consequences for poor choices" kinda guy. 

So that said, if you start to work on training your dog in "Place" then you are also working on the "Trash Can" thing! Place means "freaking Place" a "Trash Can" is your distraction, I used company! 

If the "kitchen is your thing" you tell your dog "Place" and if he breaks "Place" to investigate the "Trash Can" you "correct him for breaking "Place" and back he goes and you say "Place!" 

But to be fair to the dog, you should only "Correct him for breaking a behaviour that he absolutely 100% understands and he then "Chooses to Not Obey." 

Ultimately at least a two hour stay in "Place" is the goal. That can't be done in a "week" AFAIK???

So .... if you are working on "Place" you are also working on the "Trash Can thing!" Sooo .... you could let it go at that! 

Still ... there is a "risk" there, ... if he gets into the trash and consumes something he should not ... you have a problem! It would be best "Not" to have that happen!

Option two ... help him along in "Choosing" Not to screw with the Trash Can. You need to deliver an "Aversive" that will help him to "make better choices!"

It is "actually" a 3 second fix! There are two ways to do it ... option -one high tech and cost involved ... an "E-Collar" delivered "aversive." Looks/works like this:






And ... the low tech approach to this solution use a "Bonker!" It's a small towel bound with rubber bands and when the dog commits to the act you throw the towel at the dog and hit him! The target is between the shoulder or the head. 

Sally Scotter ... will demonstrate:






And the Author's Site and the why of "direct action" :

The Job at Hand: Failure is not a practice. | Gary Wilkes' Real Clicker Training

And if you have question about the "Bonker" you can "Ask the author" on FB:

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/Gary+Wilkes/keywords_top

And the fact of the matter is all the "Trainer" I reference have FaceBook Pages, so people are free to ask them directly if they chose. 

And if you go the "Bonker" route ... you can throw the "Bonker" hit the dog and say "NO!" Or ... you can throw the "Bonker" hit him with it and say "Nothing!" An "Act of God" correction ... "where did that come from???" Ie ... "Self Correction":

Dog Training and Obedience Articles | Self Correction - Carpentersville, Illinois

I'm unclear as to the best option?? If you use the "Bonker" and say "No!' Well then you have "trained your verbal marker!" You can now believe that when you say "No" going forward ... the dog will pay attention, so there is that. 

Oh and for the record ... you don't need to use the official "Bonker" a pair of socks rolled up into a ball ... works just as well! 




AngelaN said:


> I have tried over and over to walk him. It's a ridiculous task. I may look into the prong collar. We have him walking on a gentle lead now and even my 13 year old son can walk him. And, Vlad is 77 pounds. :surprise:
> I am eating up all of this information! Thanks so much!


Aww the "walk" ... yeah I kinda figured that would be a problem. 

I'm not really a "Prong Collar" guy myself. I use a Slip Lead Leash but that "apparently" is more of an "Art" than an a Science to use effectively?? So by and large "Everybody" that would be all the "Balanced Trainers" use a "Prong Collar." 

Still there are a few fellow "Dog Owners" out there that want to know of other options sooo .... I did this for them:

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

and once again ... the basics for walking your dog properly are "buried" in the first "thread I posted." Inside of ... New Dog a Challenge ... the first video clip, that was the first thing I was shown when I actually did take my first dog to a "Trainer!" I decided they were wrong!

I used a "Prong" ... badly but with the right dog (American Band Dawg) so ... no harm done ..."exactly." He walked well off leash but not so hot on leash. 

But when I got more fully into "Boxers" ... uh nooo, my perception was that they were not dogs that could bare a lot of ham fisted handling?? So I used a Flat leash and regular collar and what the first video clip shows is what I was shown ... it took 3 years for me to understand that. But I went back to basics and ... it worked and if you get that clip ... a Slip Lead Leash is a Piece of Cake. 

Got more on other walk "issues" but ... this should be more than enough for now I would trust?? Gotta check up on the "Boxers Folk" we do get "Boxers" with "serious issues" but not enough to keep me busy.


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## AngelaN

Chip18 said:


> Aww yesss ... the "Trash Can!" I knew that was still out there.
> 
> I'm not really an advocate of the "Stronger Trash Can" school of thought, I'm more of a "make better choices dog" or there will be "consequences for poor choices" kinda guy.
> 
> So that said, if you start to work on training your dog in "Place" then you are also working on the "Trash Can" thing! Place means "freaking Place" a "Trash Can" is your distraction, I used company!
> 
> If the "kitchen is your thing" you tell your dog "Place" and if he breaks "Place" to investigate the "Trash Can" you "correct him for breaking "Place" and back he goes and you say "Place!"
> 
> But to be fair to the dog, you should only "Correct him for breaking a behaviour that he absolutely 100% understands and he then "Chooses to Not Obey."
> 
> Ultimately at least a two hour stay in "Place" is the goal. That can't be done in a "week" AFAIK???
> 
> So .... if you are working on "Place" you are also working on the "Trash Can thing!" Sooo .... you could let it go at that!
> 
> Still ... there is a "risk" there, ... if he gets into the trash and consumes something he should not ... you have a problem! It would be best "Not" to have that happen!
> 
> Option two ... help him along in "Choosing" Not to screw with the Trash Can. You need to deliver an "Aversive" that will help him to "make better choices!"
> 
> It is "actually" a 3 second fix! There are two ways to do it ... option -one high tech and cost involved ... an "E-Collar" delivered "aversive." Looks/works like this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-RK24CCH4Q
> 
> And ... the low tech approach to this solution use a "Bonker!" It's a small towel bound with rubber bands and when the dog commits to the act you throw the towel at the dog and hit him! The target is between the shoulder or the head.
> 
> Sally Scotter ... will demonstrate:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLOw6KkxqeI
> 
> And the Author's Site and the why of "direct action" :
> 
> The Job at Hand: Failure is not a practice. | Gary Wilkes' Real Clicker Training
> 
> And if you have question about the "Bonker" you can "Ask the author" on FB:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/search/str/Gary+Wilkes/keywords_top
> 
> And the fact of the matter is all the "Trainer" I reference have FaceBook Pages, so people are free to ask them directly if they chose.
> 
> And if you go the "Bonker" route ... you can throw the "Bonker" hit the dog and say "NO!" Or ... you can throw the "Bonker" hit him with it and say "Nothing!" An "Act of God" correction ... "where did that come from???" Ie ... "Self Correction":
> 
> Dog Training and Obedience Articles | Self Correction - Carpentersville, Illinois
> 
> I'm unclear as to the best option?? If you use the "Bonker" and say "No!' Well then you have "trained your verbal marker!" You can now believe that when you say "No" going forward ... the dog will pay attention, so there is that.
> 
> Oh and for the record ... you don't need to use the official "Bonker" a pair of socks rolled up into a ball ... works just as well!
> 
> 
> Aww the "walk" ... yeah I kinda figured that would be a problem.
> 
> I'm not really a "Prong Collar" guy myself. I use a Slip Lead Leash but that "apparently" is more of an "Art" than an a Science to use effectively?? So by and large "Everybody" that would be all the "Balanced Trainers" use a "Prong Collar."
> 
> Still there are a few fellow "Dog Owners" out there that want to know of other options sooo .... I did this for them:
> 
> Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums
> 
> and once again ... the basics for walking your dog properly are "buried" in the first "thread I posted." Inside of ... New Dog a Challenge ... the first video clip, that was the first thing I was shown when I actually did take my first dog to a "Trainer!" I decided they were wrong!
> 
> I used a "Prong" ... badly but with the right dog (American Band Dawg) so ... no harm done ..."exactly." He walked well off leash but not so hot on leash.
> 
> But when I got more fully into "Boxers" ... uh nooo, my perception was that they were not dogs that could bare a lot of ham fisted handling?? So I used a Flat leash and regular collar and what the first video clip shows is what I was shown ... it took 3 years for me to understand that. But I went back to basics and ... it worked and if you get that clip ... a Slip Lead Leash is a Piece of Cake.
> 
> Got more on other walk "issues" but ... this should be more than enough for now I would trust?? Gotta check up on the "Boxers Folk" we do get "Boxers" with "serious issues" but not enough to keep me busy.


I used to use an E-collar and it broke so we quit... Really?! I can remember, now, by watching this video how well it works. I'm on it! lol... Going to Amazon now. I also have a lock top trash can on the way.


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## Amshru

Hopefully my story might give you some hope!

At 10-11 months, my puppy was driving us crazy. Loved her to bits but she was super high energy, chewed every shoe in the house as well as a couple of window sills, nothing seemed to tire her out, we were exhausted. We went to obedience classes, long hikes, she just wanted more.

Two months on and it's totally different. She had her first season and almost immediately changed. She still loves going for long long walks, but she's calm around the house. We haven't lost a shoe in two months. She has boundless energy but it's way more controllable. We go to breed class twice a week and she comes everywhere with me since she made it clear that she'd rather be in the car, than at home alone. She loves to visit friends, especially ones with dogs, but her favourite activities are tug and soccer.

Something clicked. It could have been hormonal, but I think that it's as much me getting to know her, what she likes and needs and that I've learned a lot from the training classes. In fact, I'm looking forward to my next German Shepherd... one is just not enough!


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## Chip18

AngelaN said:


> I used to use an E-collar and it broke so we quit... Really?! I can remember, now, by watching this video how well it works. I'm on it! lol... Going to Amazon now. I also have a lock top trash can on the way.


I would hope that your refering to the "Behaviour Modification Protocol" for the "trash can" with the E-Collar??

For stopping a "behaviour that can cost your dog it's life" that's how it's done but for actually "Training" a dog with an E-Collar it is "NOT" done like that. Jeff said that. I just wanted to make that point clear. 

Personally I would use the Bonker/Sock approach myself .. if my dog is persistently acting like a tool, I gots no problem "throwing crap at him! Don't do it again dog and it won't happen ... "make better choices" or bare the consequences ... your call dog!"


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## Chip18

Ok then ... first as stated ... this is most definitely "NOT" a Head Halter/Gentle Leader kinda dog! No one that deals with dogs with "Serious Freaking Issues" uses that "crap!" So ... just don't!

You have a level 10 "Bubble Dog" a dog that needs to be muzzled to be safe in public ... I "had one" no big deal if you use "good judgement" becasue your dog has none. 

No problem with "using a trainer" but in the "Real World" unless your going to spend the $2500 to $4500 dollars required to send your dog to a board train ... your going to have to put some "serious effort here." 

If you were really really good ... a "Slip Lead Leash or Prong" and the opportunity to deliver one "severe correction" would be all that is required?? I "could" do that "today" but 6 to 7 years ago when I had my "first" and thus far "Bubble Dog" I could not?? So I found other means.

So ... I'll lay out things I learned from my infamous "Rocky!" OS WL GSD with "Wobblers" that did not to much care much for uh ... anyone! 

Lesson one ... the dog needs to be able to walk well on a loose leash! No pulling or sniffing around and that is best done "first" in a distraction free environment! You need to show him "how you expect" him to behave ... I define that as do "Nothing!" Then if he "deviates" from that ... you correct him! If you get that done "first" a proper correction would be a "slight tug sideways" and ...you can't do that with a Gentle Leader or a Halti!

So ... that stuff said ... here is the rest. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8006017-post7.html

Rehab ... starts at home ... "Crate Train" the dog enforce "discipline at home" as far as walking the dog in "public" use a "Muzzle!" No contact with the public I don't use did not use treats or distractions I taught teach dogs I work with to "freaking deal with it" there job when faced with people is to deal with it ... my job is to keep people out of there face! 

See the "New Dog a Challenge" link and "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog." Once my "Rocky" understood that people in general where not his concern ... I had his back ... his people issues "disappeared!" That harsh correction thing ... was never required??? That and training the "Place Command" and doing "Sit on the Dog" people watching ... "no contact" worked out fine. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8006017-post7.html

"Place and Sit on the Dog" or in the "Fearful or Crazy" link. Ask questions ... good luck and Welcome aboard.


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