# Something about Petsmart



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I think there is something about Petsmart that brings out the dumb people, the last several times I took Eko there he almost got into a fight because people do not listen to me. He will see their dog and pull as hard as he can to get to it. I am barely able to hold him back when they see him and say, "Oh how sweet, he wants to play!" I ask them do you have a male or female dog, they say male, and I tell them no because he is male dog aggressive. I tell them he will attack your dog and they say no he won't, look how excited he is. Then they let their dog approach anyway, I have to step in front of Eko to block them and then they act offended as I leave the area as fast as I can. How am I supposed to make it any more clear? Let him chew on their dog for a bit til it sinks in?

It's happened EVERY time the last few times we went, if our vet's office wasn't inside Petsmart I'd never take him there again.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I dont know what im talking about. But the dog feeds off your energy, especially if youre the leader. I dont think you need to ask whether its a male or female. your dog already knows and you should be able to read your dog. Dont act scared because its a female or whatever. You may be feeding the misbehavior.

I think your issue should be your dog, but if your issue is the people then speak up. Say something like shes a dog in training and no interaction.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I do try to keep calm but it is not easy for me I have an anxiety disorder so I am naturally on edge most of the time. I say he will bite but then they say I don't think he will, look how bad he wants to play and then let their dogs come toward us. I think because I'm young they feel like they have more experience and know better, since his tail is wagging and he's not growling he MUST be friendly and I'm over reacting...


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

You know how many times other female dog owners have told me all manner of rude things (it will get bleeped out) because 'your dogs tail is wagging! _she obviously wants to play_!!
Thanks, Ceaser Milan of the hiking trail for clearly knowing my dog better than I do after 4 years of ownership. *bangs head on wall*

I have anxiety issues too. It sucks.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Lol, yes, his tail is straight up and wagging, his fur is standing on end and he is staring your dog down and licking his chops like it's dinnertime... Obviously they don't learn much from Cesar even he would tell them my dog is in no playing mood. I am afraid for everyone's sake I will have to muzzle him for our petsmart trips if this keeps happening. 

If I wasn't already on the verge of a panic attack just being in a crowded place not to mention having to watch out for boy dogs I might try to explain to them that a wagging tail is not always friendly but it's pretty much all I can do just to tell them don't come any closer, he will bite. Anxiety issues definitely suck


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

You just have to control your dog and ignore the others and walk on by

It's like when your out walking. You can't control other people and there dogs , only your own. You can plan ahead and see are there other dogs around and avoid them.


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## GreenCo (Sep 26, 2013)

I stopped taking my guy to petsmart. My guy loves that place and we have never had an incident but I know what you are talking about. Way too many owners that let the dog just approach when you tell the to keep a distance. My guy isn't aggressive against most breeds but still want to avoid that place.


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## E.Hatch (Sep 24, 2013)

Easy fix..amazon.com! Tons of inexpensive dog goodies and shopping online is not anxiety provoking!!


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

E.Hatch you have a great point...but I have problems leaving the house some days. If I start buying what I need online I don't think I could ever rationalize 'okay, I HAVE TO LEAVE' ever again haha.


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## E.Hatch (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah I suppose you don't want to become a full fledge agoraphobe! ;-) But seriously, amazon has great prices on stuff and maybe Petsmart is more stressful than its worth for you.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

maybe you should muzzle him when you go to Petsmart.



Sarah~ said:


> >>>>> I think there is something about Petsmart that brings out the dumb people, <<<<<
> 
> the last several times I took Eko there he almost got into a fight because people do not listen to me. He will see their dog and pull as hard as he can to get to it. I am barely able to hold him back when they see him and say, "Oh how sweet, he wants to play!" I ask them do you have a male or female dog, they say male, and I tell them no because he is male dog aggressive. I tell them he will attack your dog and they say no he won't, look how excited he is. Then they let their dog approach anyway, I have to step in front of Eko to block them and then they act offended as I leave the area as fast as I can. How am I supposed to make it any more clear? Let him chew on their dog for a bit til it sinks in?
> 
> It's happened EVERY time the last few times we went, if our vet's office wasn't inside Petsmart I'd never take him there again.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I have to go to petsmart, I use banfield for my vet. 

Yeah doggiedad that's what I was thinking, I hate to do that because he's so people friendly and loves to be pet but I don't want my dog or someone else's dog hurt. 

I do try to avoid but when Eko has zeroed in and starts pulling me and the other person sees us and comes toward us it is difficult. Maybe if I muzzle Eko they will stay away.


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## NTexFoster (Jul 18, 2013)

"I HAVE TO LEAVE" is one of those things the outside world tells us and most people don't have the courage to deeply question that statement. I work from home despite the general idea that people need to be in their kennel at the cubicle farm. I said 'no' and my life is a million times better.
There are reason to leave the house: my butcher doesn't deliver and I like going to his shop. The race track I'm a member of isn't on my property. I go to places I like to go to and I avoid the rest.

As for the 'helpful' people at PetSmart - beyond the initial polite greeting and brief but blunt explanation that you don't want your dog to meet their dog you owe those people nothing. If they insist it's the Gordon Ramsey response "pssssssss off." You and your dog do not have to be out going and friendly to every Ned Flanders you meet.

Kaiser is the opposite he wants to meet everybody. If anybody doesn't want to meet I respect it and give them space and redirect Kaiser to something else. no big deal. If the person encroaches on our space though, then it's their problem. They get the Kaiser sauce.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

You might consider finding a new vet with their own office. There would be a lot less traffic I'm sure. Hopefully the staff could help you run interference then as well if needed.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

NTexFoster, thank you. That is the most thought provoking thing I've read in a long time!!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you have an aggressive dog the owner must take control
and make sure the dog doesn't come in contact with other dogs.
when you're going somewhere that you know you're going encounter
other dogs the easiest thing to do is muzzle your dog. problem solved.



NTexFoster said:


> "I HAVE TO LEAVE" is one of those things the outside world tells us and most people don't have the courage to deeply question that statement. I work from home despite the general idea that people need to be in their kennel at the cubicle farm. I said 'no' and my life is a million times better.
> There are reason to leave the house: my butcher doesn't deliver and I like going to his shop. The race track I'm a member of isn't on my property. I go to places I like to go to and I avoid the rest.
> 
> As for the 'helpful' people at PetSmart - beyond the initial polite greeting and brief but blunt explanation that you don't want your dog to meet their dog you owe those people nothing. If they insist it's the Gordon Ramsey response "pssssssss off."
> ...


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Completely agree with doggiedad - MUZZLE! I had a DA GSD. She loved people. Hated dogs. The muzzle is a great deterrent. People don't want to approach a muzzled German Shepherd, so that includes their dogs. Better safe.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Truth is that this is not a petsmart issue, or a stupid people issue, but your issue. As annoying as it is to run into know-it-alls, bottom line you have to have control of your dog at all time. 

If you can barely control him, work on increasing your own strenght (seriously, you NEED to have control. Period), get a prong collar, and get rock-solid obedience on your dog. I went through all this with Keeta, my rescue - she acts all excited when she sees another dog, tail wagging, whining in excitement, drags me over to sniff noses, then WHAM turn Cujo on me. So obedience classes, prong collar, training club where people who had well trained dogs worked with me as a dog distraction to proof her down stay. Takes TONS of work, but it was MY issue, not the owners of the other dogs issue. 

Even now, If I take her to the vet, she has to lie facing me, not allowed to even LOOK at the other dogs, when we are called in, it is eye-contact heeling from the waiting room to the exam room. 

So basically I don't care how other people and how other dogs are acting if I take her anywhere, because I know that I have her under control. Other people don't owe me special treatment because I have an unpredictable dog,_ I_ owe other people the right to not have to worry about their dog getting in a scuffle with mine, even if they aren't the most knowledgeable dog people around.

Also, when people see how much control and attention I'm expecting out of Keeta at the vet - they understand that the control is there for a reason, and they keep their distance.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Until the dog is under control it shouldn't be around other dogs. When I was going through reactivity I called the vet when I arrived and they went out of there way to get us in without issue. After lots if work with him I no longer have to do that. If I bring him out in public I expect other dogs, adults, and kids to run up to him and he is to behave or he doesn't get to go to these places.


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## NTexFoster (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm not wild about muzzles but giving it deeper thought: it's not a bad idea. They aren't uncomfortable for your dog (somebody want to confirm?), they give your dog that "don't / with me" appearance and most importantly they'll keep you and your puppy out of trouble.

The appearance thing actually should have two benefits for you: you prefer to be left alone - the muzzle helps advertise that you and your puppy want to be left alone. Next: these Ned Flander morons who insist on having their dogs interact with your dog will lose their ever lovin dimly lit minds should your dog hurt their dog even though you told them to stay away. Further you and your dog will be the ones to bare the liability. You the tools available to get the results you're after: just put on a muzzle so you and your dog can have a calm visit to the vet.

Plus: find a local vet who can help you better.

In regard to control: find a local trainer to help you and take some basic martial arts classes. Things like judo and krav maga will help you better understand how to use what you already have to control things. All martial arts classes are going to show you how to position yourself to handle being pushed and pulled (just like having a big dog at the end of a leash). Also the confidence these classes will give you in your own body will make a difference.

What won't come up is that you're probably holding the leash too high and too far from your COG. Bring the leash in and hold it below your belly button. If you need to redirect wild thing simply take a wider stance and shuffle backward. You're dog will come along for the ride. Once you have the attention back redirect him posthaste.


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## NTexFoster (Jul 18, 2013)

sorry - I really don't want to start work today. Working from home has it's downside: I never leave work. But one more thing:

Read "Control Unleashed" for you and your dog. I've been raving about it since I found it (some nice person posted about it on another thread so I got it and I'm just passing it on). So much of what the author teaches would be beneficial in situations like this. In particular you want wild thing's attention on you at all times wherever you go so you can redirect and keep him/her below threshold at all times.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

:thumbup:



Castlemaid said:


> Truth is that this is not a petsmart issue, or a stupid people issue, but your issue. As annoying as it is to run into know-it-alls, bottom line you have to have control of your dog at all time.
> 
> If you can barely control him, work on increasing your own strenght (seriously, you NEED to have control. Period), get a prong collar, and get rock-solid obedience on your dog. I went through all this with Keeta, my rescue - she acts all excited when she sees another dog, tail wagging, whining in excitement, drags me over to sniff noses, then WHAM turn Cujo on me. So obedience classes, prong collar, training club where people who had well trained dogs worked with me as a dog distraction to proof her down stay. Takes TONS of work, but it was MY issue, not the owners of the other dogs issue.
> 
> ...


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Trust me, as nerve wracking as it is for me to even take him to banfield knowing boy dogs will be there I go out of my way to avoid any dogs on walks and any time I have Eko outside. I didn't think about asking the banfield employees to help me bring him in I will ask about that before our next appointment. I did ask the vet about his aggression last time we were there but her only suggestion was to have him neutered. And once our wellness plan contract is up in February I will be switching to a vet with their own office, for sure.

I am just upset because I feel like people should be respectful of our space and if I say don't bring your dog over here they should listen. It's very frustrating when people feel they know MY dog better than I do.  They do the same thing to my pit mix, they keep their dogs away when she is actually very dog friendly and try to pet all over her, ignoring me when I tell them she is skittish and to take it slow and just let her come to you if she wants to be pet. Maybe it is something about me that makes them ignore me? Maybe the martial arts classes are not a bad idea, lol, it could help me be more forceful so they might take me more seriously.

I do understand people have the right to feel safe in public places and I agree I need to get him to stop pulling me, since he's so strong. I don't need him to like boy dogs but to get him to focus on me and just ignore them would be nice. I will talk to our trainer about it he is supposed to come over here soon to work on Eko and aggression at the front door.

I think in the meantime while we are working on this I will have him muzzled. That way even if I make a mistake no one will be hurt. I don't really like the idea of it but it is the quickest fix at the moment. I will read that link, NTex, thank you


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Oops lol, I mean buy that book, looks like exactly what I need, though.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

tsk tsk stk how dare you suggest a prong. I have been reliably informed that its a barbaric instrument of torture!


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

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Petsmart has the largest square footage for a pet store in our area. Before I knew we could get into other places, we went there for exercise during cold icy weather. He enjoyed it alot. But we also had several incidents there. One stands out because one lady had a little dog on a plastic covered wire rope like you use to tie dogs down outdoors. All 25 foot of it and she let the dog it have all 25 feet of it and of course came directly over to Cruz. Luckily we were talking to a knowledgable trainer, a big GSD lover and owner. She saved the small dogs life. Then said that some people just don't get it. Made me smile.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Boy, am I glad we don't have a Petsmart around here! And you could live in the middle of nowhere and still find stupid people! My dogs are people and dog friendly. I have had a very sweet German Shepherd dog who was dog Unfriendly his whole life. I kept him on a leash and exercised him where I knew there were no other dogs around. He loved puppies though. When Zena came as a puppy, he growled until she ran up to him and started licking his face. They became good friends. When she had a litter by another male, he was wonderful with her puppies. ( I think he thought they were his. hehehe)


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> Truth is that this is not a petsmart issue, or a stupid people issue, but your issue. As annoying as it is to run into know-it-alls, bottom line you have to have control of your dog at all time.
> 
> If you can barely control him, work on increasing your own strenght (seriously, you NEED to have control. Period), get a prong collar, and get rock-solid obedience on your dog. I went through all this with Keeta, my rescue - she acts all excited when she sees another dog, tail wagging, whining in excitement, drags me over to sniff noses, then WHAM turn Cujo on me. So obedience classes, prong collar, training club where people who had well trained dogs worked with me as a dog distraction to proof her down stay. Takes TONS of work, but it was MY issue, not the owners of the other dogs issue.
> 
> ...


Great post, and it is coming from a Canadian, out of people! (j/k).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is not a PetsMart issue. Nobody is going to run on here and talk about all the people that ignored their dog, or followed their instructions. Trust me there are plenty of people at PetsMart that do just this. The thing is, you do not notice them. They do not stick out like a sore thumb, and they will never be given a second thought. 

I cannot imagine taking a dog I could not control, that would drag me, that I know has a problem with other dogs into a place where dogs are welcomed. I get that that is where you are going for a vet. Fine. Put a muzzle on the dog, and if that isn't enough, use a prong collar too. 

It does not help our breed to have some of them pulling their owners around and acting up around other dogs. Yes, people should listen to you and respect that you know your dog better than they do. But if the dog is not SAFE, than he can't be there. And dogs do not get over dog aggressiveness in a vaccume. Neuter him if he is not already neutered, up the leadership, up the training, and up the management. 

Leadership -- a 60 pound human is much more than a match for a 100 pound dog. Sorry. We have human brains. We stand on two feet. We make decisions with respect to the consequences of our actions. We HAVE to be the one in charge when we are walking a dog. There are kids out there that can handle a dog of your dog's weight because they have confidence and leadership qualities. You need to improve upon this. 

Training -- training will help the dog and you build the bond of trust and leadership. The dog will want to do what you want him to because of treats and praise in the beginning, and later on because of the practice and praise. Working around other dogs and people will lesson his being so distracted by them, and with the added training, you should come to the point where he will ignore dogs and do as he is instructed -- not run and play with them in a dog park, but he will be able to be taken unmuzzled without any danger of getting out of hand. 

And management -- management is the most important when your dog is still learning, and when you are increasing your leadership skills. A prong collar and a muzzle can be considered management at this point, because they will help you manage the dog to get him where he needs to go. Other types of management are managing the environment. There are people who can tell others in PetsMart not let their dog come up to theirs, and they will listen. This is because they say it without hostility or irritation, but with gravitas. 

There is a reason people are ignoring you and your dog is ignoring you. It is because neither is convinced you mean what you say. It is not enough to increase the volume or the anger in your voice. You need to increase YOUR confidence so that when you say, "No. My dog will fight with other males." People accept that and listen to you. Frankly, I would not get close enough to ask if the dog is male or female, or make any distinction. Don't let him interact with either. "No, my dog is dog aggressive." Done. Don't let people make any other decision.

Build up your confidence. Build up your dog's confidence in you. Training will do this. Make a goal, and make steps for this goal. Mark it off in a journal, give your dog progress reports. Use a trainer/training classes and keep on going. Take a self-defense course. Become a black belt in Karate. 

People will walk all over you if you let them. It doesn't make them right. But you can only change you, not them. So don't let them.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Sorry about the crack about Petsmart. I was trying to be funny and failing miserably ( as usual- **** I have no possibility as a stand-up comic? hehe) Castlemaiden said good stuff. Listen to her.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sarah~ said:


> I am just upset because I feel like people should be respectful of our space and if I say don't bring your dog over here they should listen. It's very frustrating when people feel they know MY dog better than I do.  They do the same thing to my pit mix, they keep their dogs away when she is actually very dog friendly and try to pet all over her, ignoring me when I tell them she is skittish and to take it slow and just let her come to you if she wants to be pet. Maybe it is something about me that makes them ignore me? Maybe the martial arts classes are not a bad idea, lol, it could help me be more forceful so they might take me more seriously.


I guess I don't get how its someone else's fault that YOUR dog is the aggressive one and is the one that is pulling towards them. So, if I was in your petsmart with my 3 year old male, and your dog starts pulling towards him like a bat out of **** and dragging you along with him, I have to quickly move and walk away from wherever it is I'm standing and drop whatever it is I'm looking at because YOUR dog can't handle being around another male?

Truth is...you shouldn't have your dog at Petsmart. 99% of people EXPECT that if your dog is out in a public and closed space like that, it is friendly. We have very little control at a pet store in the first place, and it sounds like you have even less control as you can't stop your dog. Its people's responsibility to not let their dog just come up to your dog...but its not their responsibility to avoid your dog at all costs while they're trying to shop.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

alexg said:


> Great post, and it is coming from a Canadian, out of people! (j/k).


LOL, thanks! But if you turn this into a political statement, I'll have to send myself a warning! :wild:


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I would not ask anyone to drop what they are doing to get out of my dog's way, my complaint was about people who see us and come toward us with the intention of having their dog meet mine regardless of what I say. 

I agree he shouldn't be there, like I said, until my contract with banfield is up I cannot afford to go anywhere else. His appointments are the only times he goes there, and those visits consist of me making a beeline to the banfield desk and then right back out the door. Usually the incidents happen right at the desk while we are checking in.

Thank you for your post selzer, a long read but worth it. Like you say I will be managing him with the prong and muzzle for now while I work with him. If he never wants to play with boy dogs for the rest of his life I am okay with that if I could get him to ignore them.

To the person who made the joke about the prong collar being barbaric... Lol! Don't have to tell me I had a whole topic on how my roommates wouldn't let me use a prong on Eko for walks when he chased cars. They STILL give me grief about it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The only time I have had anything run up to me and my dog at Petsmart was a kid. People always ask to pet before they pet or they go the other way, especially people with small dogs. They don't want a confrontation with a GSD. And I have gone to a few Petsmarts.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I wasn't talking about the vet. The vet is a necessity. I was talking about Petsmart. The truth is, a lot of dog people that see a dog pulling their owner will probably try to step in and stop the pulling. For you to tell them that YOUR dog will attack their dog while its pulling you towards them is ridiculous...why do you bring your dog into a place where its almost 100% going to run into another male dog and you can't control that interaction?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> I wasn't talking about the vet. The vet is a necessity. I was talking about Petsmart. The truth is, a lot of dog people that see a dog pulling their owner will probably try to step in and stop the pulling. For you to tell them that YOUR dog will attack their dog while its pulling you towards them is ridiculous...why do you bring your dog into a place where its almost 100% going to run into another male dog and you can't control that interaction?


In a couple of posts, she tells us that she is stuck in a Banfield contract. Banfield are vets located within some PetsMart stores, and no where else. Until her contract date is up, she is stuck taking the dog there, as she cannot afford to take him elsewhere since she has paid membership fees to these people.

Sarah, be sure you go through your contract with them, and cancel it, do not just fail to pay, because if you do not cancel, I think they can legally re-up you for another year. Check your paperwork. Someone a few years ago on here had that issue.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> In a couple of posts, she tells us that she is stuck in a Banfield contract. Banfield are vets located within some PetsMart stores, and no where else. Until her contract date is up, she is stuck taking the dog there, as she cannot afford to take him elsewhere since she has paid membership fees to these people.
> 
> Sarah, be sure you go through your contract with them, and cancel it, do not just fail to pay, because if you do not cancel, I think they can legally re-up you for another year. Check your paperwork. Someone a few years ago on here had that issue.


I don't know about where the OP is, but all the Petsmarts by me have separate entrance, mainly because their hours are different.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think the whole point of the partnership is to have people see and buy as they are going to the vet. Around here, you have to walk through the store to get to the entrance. And they may have different hours, but the store opens at 9 or 10 and stays open until 9 or 10, I think the vet section just closes earlier. But the grooming section sometimes opens earlier and they just let you in the front doors.


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## MedicPup (Jun 21, 2013)

My biggest issue in public, not just pet stores, is people who can't control their dogs. I think they are the ones who are the problem, not the people with the friendly social dogs. I can't tell you how many times I've been in both with my dog & by myself & had a dog jump on me or go crazy & lunge at my pup. And the people have no idea how to control their dogs. 

A lot of people utilize these pet friendly stores to socialize their dogs. If you have issues controlling your dog then you need to be a responsible dog owner & get training that helps the dog & helps you as a handler. This is more important since you have anxiety since dogs totally pick up on it. It doesn't matter if you switch vets because you are still going to be around other animals (not just dogs). What happens when you are in the parking lot & have a run in with another dog? You can't expect other people to pick up the slack because you aren't capable of handling a dog. 


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, I have to walk through the store to get to the vet office inside petsmart. They open earlier than the store and there is a button to buzz you in. I would take him before the store opens, but the only appointments available from 7 to 9 when the store opens are drop off appointments. If I want to go in with him, I have to wait until the afternoon. I have been pretty frustrated with this for a while, even before all this I was planning to cancel. I like the vet herself but it's just a huge hassle. I will make sure to call and cancel, thanks for the heads up! I am stuck in Xena's contract until April but I will be canceling that one, too. 

I get what you're saying, me telling them he's going to bite while he is pulling that way doesn't make sense, but at the moment it's all I can do when he overpowers me. I'm not saying it was the right thing to do but I felt it was better than me saying nothing, knowing he would attack, and these people having no idea what was coming. True, they are just walking by before Eko sees them and starts to pull but I don't immediately yell "don't come over here" at them, not until they start letting their dog come up to him. But you guys have made it clear that's not the way to deal with it so I'm going to start working on it.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm sorry you're stuck in a Banfield contract! I've heard a lot of people have trouble with those. The Petsmart near me is the same, you have to walk all the way to the back of the store to get to the vet area. Then the waiting area is right next to the store aisles also so you would not be away from people shopping. I haven't used the vet there but I noticed that.

I'd definitely try using a muzzle, preferably a basket muzzle if possible. You can actually buy those at Petsmart too.  A muzzle is usually enough to keep people away from your dog even without you saying anything. It may also be a good idea to get some type of management device that can prevent him from pulling you towards people, like a no-pull harness.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sometimes a head halter will make people stop and take notice. You can draw your dog's head back to you where he needs to be focused. But you cannot give him corrections with it. Also, make sure you have a connecting strip between his flat collar and the head collar in the event he pulls out of it.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Are you sure that would be strong enough? The head collars I've seen all have really thin straps. He has been wearing his martingale to petsmart and that doesn't bother him at all when he gets worked up.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

A martingale on an untrained 1.5 year old male GSD? Of course it won't stop him.

Don't worry about the straps, they'll hold. It's all about how the collar/head halter works than the tension strength of the straps (which is much higher than your dog can pull anyways). The moment your dog starts pulling, as long as you can keep some pressure on the leash, his head will turn towards you and away from whatever he's trying to get to.

I walk my dog on a quarter inch leash...he's not breaking that anytime soon.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I pretty much use a martingale on all my dogs and never graduate to a prong or head collar. But I am a lot heavier, and start them a lot younger. I currently have a tiny seven month old booger that can pull like an ox. 

A dog can pull with his shoulders and neck but they have a tougher time pulling with their head. Thus the head collar. And smaller straps often give you more control. Small chokers, a thin bit, a small prong collar with extra-links can give you more control than a large one. Prongs and chokes are ok, so long as you use them properly, and fit them correctly. You do not want the dog pulling on a prong or a choke. You want a loose leash. If the dog moves out of position, give him a quick pop as a reminder. But try to keep the distance such that you can keep the leash loose. Some dogs will pull on a prong like anything else, and what do you do then? 

I have not tried no-pull harnesses, so I won't comment. A regular harness is obviously not the answer as that would facilitate pulling. 

I think in general, for training collars, the prong would be the first choice as the safest, and easiest on the dog. I am not sure which I would put next, an e-collar, head collar, and choke chain. All of them if used incorrectly can do damage, and I think all of them, can be abused easily. But, all of them, when used properly, can have excellent results. I use choke chains on occasion, but only on dogs that are already trained. Martingales are awesome, but if it is not working when your dog sees another dog, then you need to upgrade to a training collar.

The straps on a head collar will hold, but dogs MAY back out of them. So always connect with a short strap to his flat collar or martingale. Naked dogs are a danger to themselves and others.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I try to avoid correction collars when dealing with things like dog aggression/reactivity, where the dog is focusing on another animal and is then given correction. This can often either heighten the reaction to the other dog or may even make the reactivity or aggression itself worse as the dog associates the correction with the presence of the other dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think you have to balance the added control a prong will give her to the possibility that the dog thinks that the correction is associated with the other dog. It really depends I think if the dog is actally aggressive or reactive out of fear. I think if the dog wasn't dragging her towards the other dogs to the point of not being able to handle him, I would be less likely to encourage a prong.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm not sure if he is scared of the dogs or not, it doesn't seem like fear it seems more like he is hunting them down or something. His ears and tail stick straight up and he stares them down like when he is focused on his ball or a treat. Then he pulls and once they get close enough he snaps. He did the same thing to cars when he used to chase them and he does it to the vacuum too before he bites it and tries to take it out of our hands.

The only reason I asked about how strong the straps are is because he ripped through a regular nylon harness before so I thought if he did that a head collar would be no match. Choke chains did little to nothing on him, so I guess my next step is the prong and head collar.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sarah, 

Have you ever worked with a trainer?

David Winners


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes we had a trainer over a few times because Eko was being aggressive at the front door.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Do you have a GSD club anywhere near you or at least a trainer that is familiar with the breed?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I used to stand outside the Persmart about 20 feet from the door with mine. I brought high value treats and treated him heavily while dogs walked by. I would go through 5 dogs and leave. Repeat a couple days later. It's a lot of work, but it can be done. I could not use a prong on mine in the beginning, but now I can and it works wonderfully.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I am not sure about the GSD club, the trainer I had over to my house said he had trained GSDs before. I live in Wichita Kansas, when I looked online for a trainer I didn't see very many options in my area but I haven't checked for a club yet.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Until your contract is up, consider muzzling your dog. I'd also invest in a prong or a easy walk harness or SENSE-ation harness to physically control your dog. With the layout of a store it's impossible to prevent your dog from coming into contact with other dogs who may be coming around a corner. If you can't manage your surroundings _or_ physically hold back your dog, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Also, unless something has changed since I worked there, I believe petsmart has a sign on the front doors that says only vaccinated and non-aggressive dogs are allowed in the store. It's perfectly reasonable for people to assume that all the dogs that enter the store are not aggressive, because they shouldn't be. It's not smart for them to ignore your request to keep their dog away from yours just because his tail is wagging and they think that means he is friendly, but I think the amount of knowledge the average dog owner has about dogs is equal to the amount of knowledge your average TV viewer has about programming their TV. Just because they have one doesn't mean they know a thing about it.


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## GreenCo (Sep 26, 2013)

Does your dog happen to be aggressive over food?

I ask because my guy is around other dogs but not people. This is something I'm working on correcting and making some progress. I ask because in a store like that with so many treats and food around maybe that triggers the aggression? Just a thought. I know when at petsmart with my guy and an employee offers him a treat its a NO because once food is involved and other dogs around he gets a little excited.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

He is EXTREMELY aggressive around food when animals are involved. I can get near his food no problem but if Xena or my cat get near him he will snap. He even guards the water bowl from the cat, he'll drink water til he pukes because he doesn't want the cat to have any.


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## GreenCo (Sep 26, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> He is EXTREMELY aggressive around food when animals are involved. I can get near his food no problem but if Xena or my cat get near him he will snap. He even guards the water bowl from the cat, he'll drink water til he pukes because he doesn't want the cat to have any.


I'm no expert and a new owner myself so I'm just sharing my experience and have no real advice. My guy is fine with people/kids around food but when it comes to other dogs he is not cool with it. It's getting better but he's a work in progress. He came to me at 43lbs at 3 years old with all his bones showing. He was severely underweight and from what I have read that might have contributed to this behavior. I figure he never had enough food all his life and now that he does he protects it at all costs, even though he's a picky eater, go figure.

At petsmart with all the food around and employees handing out treats and the dog can smell where one has recently eaten. He may be more aggressive? I know my guy was always well behaved until an employee gave him treats and then a couple dogs came around the corner and he started to act up. He would have been fine otherwise. Might be something to consider as well. I'm working with a friend at feeding our dogs a few times a week at the same time outdoors where they are supervised and safe. I think this is slowly correcting this behavior but it might be a long process. 

Again, I have limited knowledge and experience. Only had my guy for 4months now so just some observations. I have no idea what I'm talking about.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

It could be that he smells food, but then I'm not sure why it would only be male dogs that set him off. If I had to make a guess I think he is trying to be dominant, but that could be wrong too. He isn't neutered so there have been times where he has been the one that is being targeted, not so much lately though he has become a bully.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Stick it out with this dog, and in eight years, you are going to be the person on here giving all the advice. He will teach you a ton. And it will also be very rewarding to look back on his time with you, where you've been, and everything on up. 

But right now you are in the thick of it. Kudos for dealing with a tough boy. Just plan on being in training with him forever, and he might surprise you one day, when the two of you are totally comfortable in all situations.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you  that was nice of you to say. I love Eko very much I think that even if he acted like this the rest of his life I could never give up on him. But he won't be like this forever we just need to work on it. He has already taught me so much in just a year and a half I totally agree in 8 years I might be the one giving advice. He wants to be a good boy I just need to help him out better.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think once you find a good trainer and see signs of improvement it will change for the better. You will gain confidence in yourself and in him, that will make a world of a difference.


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## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you I am sure you're right 

Eko did something pretty concerning to me today, I asked him and Xena if they wanted to go out and when Xena got up he went after her. I caught him before he did anything and as I was walking him to the back door by his collar he suddenly lunged around me and snapped at her again. There was no growling, seemed sort of out of the blue. They have always gotten along so well I don't know what got into him. I'm calling the trainer on Monday the sooner I get a handle on this the better it is definitely escalating.


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