# Perch training



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What do you all use for the perch? I was thinking a phone book but I can't find one. I'd like something about that size, different texture (than carpet), and slightly elevated.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have a farm black rubber like feeding bowl turned over. It is flat on the top. They come in different sizes.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I tried a phone book and the cover slid around, so that was a no-go. I worked on it a little once so far, and used a large hardcover book. I'd like to find something better though. Samba, do you have a link to what you're talking about?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

On a quick search, I found this picture. Our farm stores have different sizes so you can get one appropriate for your dog.

http://www.neeps.com/336570.html


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Thanks. Not sure we have any farm stores around here.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Okay, one thing I have the Bay Area doesn't!!


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## triordan (Dec 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomThanks. Not sure we have any farm stores around here.


check any "feed" store, southern states, tractor supply, any horse supply stores?? we use these all the time at the barn from feeding to soaking feet, be careful they are meant to be a bit flimsy


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: SambaOkay, one thing I have the Bay Area doesn't!!


It ain't exactly rural here, lol!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

How about my small folding step stool? Mine is shorter than this 9" one. Found it at regular box store.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?r=view&i=72035


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Yeah, I did a search and found those at Home Depot and Amazon - do you think it would work? Round would be better, but that looks to be a good size, and not too tall. Plus - cheap!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Mine is about 8 inches tall. Works fine for mine.

Hogan can't fathom that his rear can move when he is on it. I don't think that is a function of the equipment though!!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Good thread, and timely...I have asked my DH since late Nov. to make me a placeboard, so far, he hasn't made one(ice fishing take precidence
I've been using the top to a big plastic container, only 1" high, so not tall enough. I'll go to TS tomorrow for one of those feeders~we have one in the chicken coop now, too nasty to clean up for training.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think I solved the problem. I found a servingware box (well the servingware is still in it but hopefully the recipient won't need the box!), perfect height and size, and very sturdy. It was really slippery, so I wrapped the lit with that rubber-y stuff you put under a rug or under your dishes.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Good job! I love that rubbery stuff. Easy to cut to size and grippy for paws!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Good info here and I just happen to have the perfect wooden box and the rubbery stuff...but my brain is tired tonight and I can't remember what we are teaching them with these 'tool's' . I also want to get some stepping stone like ones to use to teach Z how to stack. Nadi self stacks all the time, but I never have my camera handy to snap a shot.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I use the perch to teach rear awareness, or "teaching Nikon he has a butt" as I was explaining to DH earlier. I start by getting the dog used to having front paws on the perch and just click for that. Then I use my shoulders to guide the dog to pivot left or right (or sometimes at the beginning nudge the dog) and click for any steps left or right. Eventually my goal is to stand in front of the perch with the dog's front on the perch and have him "swing" his butt from basic position to front position or front to basic (or even over to the right). Basically the perch keeps the front paws in a very limited spot so in order to move he has to pivot his butt. I use the clicker and food for this. This cleans up the dogs left turns/pivots and flip finishes.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Second session went really well, but I do need a better perch. The book is only about 3" thick, and it's a little slick with the dust jacket on, I should probably just take it off. 

In the first session I was able to lure her up onto it with a treat, and she would stay there for a click/treat or two and then I'd release her, but I couldn't get her to even put one foot up by herself. I could have shaped from just looking at or sniffing it, but decided not to.

Tonight within a few minutes she was stepping onto it with both feet pretty consistently, without a lure, I just kept moving around so it was always between us, and stepping back a bit to pull her towards me. She'd stay in place for several click/treats and then I'd release her off and do it again. I could take a step or two away and she'd stay there motionless. I tried moving in a circle a little, and that was harder for her to grasp, possibly because it was a little slippery and too close to the ground. But not bad for her second time ever!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Nikon was so obsessed with food tonight he was slamming his front paws on it after about 15 seconds of clicker shaping. I started saying "perch!" when he was on it correctly and now he will run to it from across the room and get on it. He's a little overly exuberant about it, the perch is starting to slide on the carpet.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Funny dog!! Good to build some drive for it at first. I bet he will settle when it comes to working on the finer movements!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a cool video that shows how to use perch training to teach heel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97a2JT_6sX4

I've already done some pivot work with Halo without a perch, so I think she'll get it pretty fast.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

He's gonna get fat from all the shaping we're doing! He's earned nearly 2 cups of kibble today just from training.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

He looked much happier in his photoshoot yesterday...where is the orange thing in the sky??LOL


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I love that little puppy spinning around!

Some more happy perchers!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22dOf88RTiI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsvNvK8T1z8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sambasue#p/f/10/-JwbbFS97f4


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

What size is your perch Lies? That looks bigger than what I'm using. I think if mine were a little bigger and not slippery I'd be able to get her to move around on it. Eventually, it could be smaller, but right now if she moves much she'll just slide off it.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

Forgive me for sounding lame, but what exactly is the purpose of perch training?? It looks like it would develop a "cleaner" heel, especially when making sharp turns. Glory is not very aware that she has a butt. How would perch training help us?? Thanks........


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## IslandStorm62 (Dec 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Zissoto teach Z how to stack


Wow, I did not know we had to teach the dogs how to stack...anyone got pointers on this?

I was just trying to get Mocha to Stand and then position his body, who knew.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Personally, I don't have to teach them to stack as we are not showing or competing in anything, but I like the looks of it and just want to see him in a stack









Lies, thanks for the reminder of what the point of the step is. That is something I can work on indoors when it is pouring down rain


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Buoyant DogForgive me for sounding lame, but what exactly is the purpose of perch training?? It looks like it would develop a "cleaner" heel, especially when making sharp turns. Glory is not very aware that she has a butt. How would perch training help us?? Thanks........


There's a lot of exercises that can help with rear awareness, but I like the perch training because the dog is trained to keep his front paws on the perch, within a smaller area. Usually it only takes a few minutes to train the dog that he needs to stand with his front paws on the perch. Then you can work on training him to swing his rear this way or that. It translates to having much nicer pivots and flip finishes. We don't use a flip finish for SchH but on a rally novice course you see *all* of the turns and finishes.

I also like it because you don't really need any "equipment" other than a perch. Nikon crushed my left hand yesterday so I couldn't hold a toy or use a collar/leash for training.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I think it makes for a more complete dog physically. It is amazing sometimes how little rear awareness so many of them seem to have. 

The rescue dogs say hello from their perch...

Merry Meet Walkin' On Sunshine "Soliel"









Merry Meet Don't Cha Do Voodoo "Voodoo"


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

Lies, where did you get that crate cover in the background? I've been looking for one for a long time. Sorry to go off subject...


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## IslandStorm62 (Dec 12, 2009)

Great Idea. I think I will start a list of indoor / limited space / bad weather options available for training. This way, we don't always have to go outside to train. In the Army, we call it Hip Pocket Training; training you can do when you are just waiting around. I guess I'll have to get a list of these since it does rain quite a bit in Washington. Thanks.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Dottie started perch training tonight in her agility class. Now I have find something small enough for her so she can't hop on with all four feet.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

A short video of Miss Dottie's 2nd session

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9FafT0sZuw


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Good job with all the perch training everyone is doing! I just use a cheap plastic stool from Walmart that's about 8" high and it works great. 

Think that nice black rubber bowl Ms. Dottie is on would also work well even for bigger dogs. Really help them pivot and use their rears to come around while having to keep both front feet on it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I love Dottie!








I have the same bowl(though larger) and it is great! Grips on the floor and the dog doesn't slip either. I think I'll get the smaller one, too. I think we have one in the barn that size!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I actually got the idea from you, Jane - from another thread about perch. Went to Tractor Supply this morning and got that one for Dottie, a big 3 gallon one for Ike and then a tractor supply logo frisbee for Obie, a horse whip that I am going to use as a flirt pole for Dottie, and a horsey Jolly Ball for Ike. It was a good haul for the doggies.


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## thaliasmom (May 3, 2007)

All of our local children's parks have little stools that I've found are perfect for this. Little Kilo is learning really quickly.







It seems like for in home a garden stone might work well for the early stages? The ones that are used to make pathways in the yard? Non-slippery and come in several sizes.


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

Ok, I started perch training my 3 and I am having a blast. The sheltie and Moxie have got it down I believe and love doing it! So now my question is.. What else?

We have a good send to the perch, pivoting on the perch with me in front and pivoting around the perch in heel position (left and right - I just walk around the bowl and they stay in position). 

So what else can be done with the perch? Moxie started offering to try to get 3 legs up on it lol so I may try for getting her to have all 4 feet on the tiny bowl lol and have also thought about having her do the pivoting with just her rear legs on the perch. But what else can we do? how else can it be used? Ideas? Thoughts?


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

1st you start them on a high stool, when you can get them to go around in both directions with you in front.
You add a broom handle so they learn to lift up there rear feet not just hop around. 
Then you start to work your way back down in size of stools till you are on the ground


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

Ok, so if I understand; They need to go around the bowl (I use the rubber farm bowl about 4 inches off the ground) on a command(?) left or right while I am stationary in front (which brings them around to heel or to my right in heel). 
They already pick up their feet when moving around, not hopping that that what you mean about lifting up their rear feet?
Then I get them to do it not on the perch?
Did I understand that right?


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## IslandStorm62 (Dec 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Achielles CDXpivoting around the perch in heel position (left and right - I just walk around the bowl and they stay in position).


Can you describe this in a little more detail? Are you side stepping around the bowl?


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

I guess you could say I was side stepping...

Dog is on perch (bowl). I am in front at first but pivot/walk so that I am standing next to the bowl (used food at first to get them to stay put while I got into heel position instead of moving like I first taught with me in front of the bowl) and the outside of my left foot is almost against the bowl. Then, keeping the outside of my left foot almost touching the bowl, I shuffle/take tiny steps forward so that the dog has to basically do a "get in" with their rear to stay in heel position. Or I walk/shuffle/tiny steps backwards with the outside of my left foot almost touching the bowl so the dog has to pivot with me in heel position by moving their rear away from me.

The dogs have no problem figuring out if I want them to move in front of me or in heel position. If I want them to move while in front of me, I jsut stay further away from the bowl at this point. If I want heel position, I get there and remain close to the bowl. So far, I think they have figured that part out









Does that make sense?









I guess this will be the next thing I have to have video'd!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

This is my puppy Ike doing a heeling left turn from last week. 10 1/2 months old. Been on the perch since he was a 8 week old pup. There are other ways to teach rear end awareness but I really like perch training.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

That is a testament to perch work, for sure. Fast Ike.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks Samba. Ike is a fast little bugger 

I was talking to someone at training yesterday about rear end awareness or what Joanne Plumb calls collection. And while it's true that the long body works against the GSD when it comes making tight turns, GSD's angulation and their ability to stay low to the ground with their back legs somewhat makes up for the length disadvantage. But the trick is to teach them to pivot well with their front legs and that's where perch training comes in very handy.


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