# Vitamin E



## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

We are giving our pup fish oil with her meals. I recently heard that if you supplement with fish oils (Omega 3), you should also add vitamin E. What are the thoughts on this? How much vitamin E should we be adding? Does anyone have a source for oil+vit E already mixed?

Thanks


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I give vitamin E(human grade)400iu a few days a week. Raw eggs contain E so the days I give eggs, no supplement is needed. I usually give salmon oil or coconut oil and personally don't want the E to already be added. E is fat stored, too much isn't a good thing. The only reaso to add in E when giving oils is the oil will deplete the dogs storage of E, which can make them deficient. So every few days is enough to keep the balance. I'd rather give it in a natural form(eggs or other whole foods).


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Everywhere I have heard that the omega 3s deplete vitamin E so you should supplement. I give 400iu but I do give the DL form which is not as good as the natural D form so really that is only about 200iu of usable e. I do give Grizzly salmon oil now and like it.


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## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> Everywhere I have heard that the omega 3s deplete vitamin E so you should supplement. I give 400iu but I do give the DL form which is not as good as the natural D form so really that is only about 200iu of usable e. I do give Grizzly salmon oil now and like it.


Thanks. Can you please explain DL versus D forms?


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## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I give vitamin E(human grade)400iu a few days a week. Raw eggs contain E so the days I give eggs, no supplement is needed. I usually give salmon oil or coconut oil and personally don't want the E to already be added. E is fat stored, too much isn't a good thing. The only reaso to add in E when giving oils is the oil will deplete the dogs storage of E, which can make them deficient. So every few days is enough to keep the balance. I'd rather give it in a natural form(eggs or other whole foods).


Thanks...good point about the eggs.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The orientation of molecules in 3D space can be different depending on where atoms are attached to a specific carbon atom. Best way to visualize is your right hand vs your left hand. D and L are named as such based on how they rotate polarized light (dextro vs. levulo) but the main thing is they have the same chemical formula but are different in space. 

Enzymes are very specific about how molecules fit in the active site (as your hand is specific about how it fits in a glove) so an enzyme that works with a certain molecule will not work with one that does not fit, as it won't have the correct 3D spacial orientation. 

The synthetic vitamisn represent a mix of these variants, known as sterioisomers, where they are only made one way in nature. So a fraction of the DL form is useless. Make sense?


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## GSDSammie (Dec 13, 2010)

Based on information from similar threads in this forum, I give 1 salmon oil capsule and 1 400iu vitamin E capsul at each meal


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I use Grizzly salmon oil and was wondering if I needed to use Vit E also. The eggs I use are "Omega-3" eggs from Wal-mart. I only give eggs about 2-3 times a week. Should I give a 400 iu Vit E pill on the days I don't give eggs?


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## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> The orientation of molecules in 3D space can be different depending on where atoms are attached to a specific carbon atom. Best way to visualize is your right hand vs your left hand. D and L are named as such based on how they rotate polarized light (dextro vs. levulo) but the main thing is they have the same chemical formula but are different in space.
> 
> Enzymes are very specific about how molecules fit in the active site (as your hand is specific about how it fits in a glove) so an enzyme that works with a certain molecule will not work with one that does not fit, as it won't have the correct 3D spacial orientation.
> 
> The synthetic vitamisn represent a mix of these variants, known as sterioisomers, where they are only made one way in nature. So a fraction of the DL form is useless. Make sense?


Wow....well it made enough sense. I don't understand all that, but it sure made me feel better! Thanks.


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## 4score (Nov 4, 2011)

GSDSammie said:


> Based on information from similar threads in this forum, I give 1 salmon oil capsule and 1 400iu vitamin E capsul at each meal


Wow...I wasn't getting the message of 400 vit E at EACH MEAL! When people were saying 400iu I was assuming they meant "daily".


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Only 400iu once daily or every few days is plenty...it is fat stored so you can overdose it.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

if you are feeding multiple times a day then you do not want to give E at each meal. Once a day is more then plenty you definitely don't want to give more then once a day. Salmon oil at each meal is fine but not the E.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

GSDSammie said:


> Based on information from similar threads in this forum, I give 1 salmon oil capsule and 1 400iu vitamin E capsul at each meal


How many mg's / capsule?

The salmon oil, it should be 1000mg/20lbs of dog for a regular dosage, or 1000mg/10lbs of dog for therapeutic/supportive use.

This makes capsules hard to use for the large dogs, because you would have to give 6-8/day to meet the dosage requirements.

Liquid is usually more cost effecient for larger breeds.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

kbella999 said:


> I use Grizzly salmon oil and was wondering if I needed to use Vit E also. The eggs I use are "Omega-3" eggs from Wal-mart. I only give eggs about 2-3 times a week. Should I give a 400 iu Vit E pill on the days I don't give eggs?


I would also like to know the answer to this.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Maybe 2 days a week give 400iu of E, it shouldn't deplete in the dogs system if you are giving eggs. 

For my dogs, I give eggs 3x's a week, salmon oil gelcaps (2000mg daily) or rotate with coconut oil and then an E every few days when I don't give eggs. I don't stress over it. I also give EsterC 1000mg daily and a B complex about once or twice a week. all human grade.
My long coat Kacie has developed sebaceous cysts(due to the salmon oil?) so I give her Tumeric(500mg daily) to reduce the cysts. So far it has helped, but she still has a big one at the base of her tail.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> Maybe 2 days a week give 400iu of E, it shouldn't deplete in the dogs system if you are giving eggs.
> 
> For my dogs, I give eggs 3x's a week, salmon oil gelcaps (2000mg daily) or rotate with coconut oil and then an E every few days when I don't give eggs. I don't stress over it. I also give EsterC 1000mg daily and a B complex about once or twice a week. all human grade.
> My long coat Kacie has developed sebaceous cysts(due to the salmon oil?) so I give her Tumeric(500mg daily) to reduce the cysts. So far it has helped, but she still has a big one at the base of her tail.


Thanks!


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## Cheerful1 (Sep 27, 2011)

After giving Joey his breakfast, I give him 400iu Vitamin E, 500mg 
Ester-C and Nordic Naturals Omega 3. Don't want to overdo, but also want to make sure he's getting what he needs.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

When you give the vitamine E do you give the pill or just the liquid inside the pill? What brand of Vitamine E do you use?



Cheerful1 said:


> After giving Joey his breakfast, I give him 400iu Vitamin E, 500mg
> Ester-C and Nordic Naturals Omega 3. Don't want to overdo, but also want to make sure he's getting what he needs.


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## Amrit (Jun 12, 2011)

kbella999 said:


> When you give the vitamine E do you give the pill or just the liquid inside the pill? What brand of Vitamine E do you use?


I would love to know this too, are you giving human versions of salmon and vit e capsules and/or liquids or ones with something speicifically not in them or?


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I follow Dr. Becker's concoction for vitamins and minerals, Batman's owner has a fabulous blog on this:

How to Make Dr. Becker's Vitamin Mix in 6 Steps | batmanimal


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Look into the brand, Nordic Naturals (a local CA company) for fish oils.

There is probably vitamin E added to your dry dog food. If you are feeding a good brand, you probably don't need any additional. Also dogs make their own vitamin C, (someone posted about those supplements) I would ask your vet before taking those. Our vet does sell the Nordic Naturals is his office.


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## Minoli (Jul 19, 2011)

Would Kirkland Signature Vitamin E be good for dogs? If not, what kind do you use? 

I currently supplement daily with Celavin Nusentia Fish Oil. 

Also, would you recommend Grizzly Salmon Oil over Nusentia? The pump bottle would be much easier to dispense.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I would also like to know what brands of vitamin E people are using. I use Grizzly for the Salmon oil and am happy with that. 



Minoli said:


> Would Kirkland Signature Vitamin E be good for dogs? If not, what kind do you use?
> 
> I currently supplement daily with Celavin Nusentia Fish Oil.
> 
> Also, would you recommend Grizzly Salmon Oil over Nusentia? The pump bottle would be much easier to dispense.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

We've been using Grizzly Salmon oil on all of our dogs for 3+ years, really happy with it as well.

For my 58 lb shepherd, we give 400 IU of Vit E daily (she is on a therapeutic level of salmon oil for her environmental allergy), 600 IU for my 90 lb shepherd. We use Solgar Vit E, would also be interested to know if there is a better brand out there (not that we are having any problems with Solgar). I remember reading somewhere that it is best to use mixed tocopherols.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Vitamin E has to be complex and natural , 4 tocopherols, 4 tocotrienols . Dog food may have some vitamin e , but it is useless because it is the dl - synthetic form , oxidized, and only a fraction of a complex compound .


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Carmen - I just read that the tocopherols and tocotrienols are never in the same plants in nature and that they should be taken several hours apart so as not to inhibit each other. What are your thoughts on that?


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## Cheerful1 (Sep 27, 2011)

We've been using Solgar Vitamin E.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I've started using the Now brand of vitamin E mixed tocopherols. I am giving 1 400 iu pill about 3 x a week. Vitamin E-400 IU MT - 250 Sgels - NOW Foods


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Even with the DL (I recently switcheed to D) I saw marked imporvement in Grims back/nerve issues and we had issues when we stopped for a few days.

Do the forms other than D alpha actually have biologic activity?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I am just going to get Carmen's products. The research was done over so many years and on so many dogs that I am confident it will give Hans everything he needs, and I won 't have to grind vitamins! 
SH-EMP OIL | CARMSPACK.com


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Jax, you said " I just read that the tocopherols and tocotrienols are never in the same plants in nature and that they should be taken several hours apart so as not to inhibit each other" . What study was this please.

Natural Vitamin E , IS 8 compounds, consisting of 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols . (from a Johns Hopkins study) "Vitamin E is not one thing. It is eight similar but different compounds. These eight compounds exist naturally in your body and in a well-balanced, whole-food diet like the Mediterranean Diet.
Unfortunately, most of the attention Vitamin E has received is focused on just one of these compounds—alpha-tocopherol. The reason is alpha-tocopherol is the most easily isolated and synthesized of the eight constituents of Vitamin E—and by far the most commonly used form in supplementation"

to save time using one of my old posts "The Vitamin E used in commercial dog food is alpha tocopherol , most likey a synthetic form , indicated by dl - prefix -- which is just not the same as a natural for --

"Alpha-tocopherol is the most biologically active form of vitamin E, and its natural form consists of one isomer.

In contrast, synthetic alpha-tocopherol contains eight different isomers, of which only one (about 12 percent of the synthetic molecule) is identical to natural vitamin E. 

The other seven isomers range in potency from 21 percent to 90 percent of natural d-alpha-tocopherol.

This may appear to be arcane nutritional chemistry, but it is key to understanding how the body absorbs natural and synthetic supplements differently. 

Molecular structure determines how the body uses vitamin E. Researchers have found that natural vitamin E assimilates far better than synthetic versions. Specific binding and transport proteins produced in the liver select the natural d-alpha form of vitamin E and largely ignore all other forms."

So yes Jocoyn , recent studies have come around to thinking that dl-alpha tocopherol is not as beneficial , nor recognized , by the body as the natural form d-alpha tocopherol. 




"To ensure your Vitamin E supplementation program brings you the optimum anti-cancer, anti-heart disease benefits, you must:
Use a supplement with all 8 Vitamin E components (tocopherols and tocotrienols).
Use only the natural (_d_-) forms of tocopherols and tocotrienols … and avoid the mixed _dl_-synthetic forms"
old post of mine "okay . Vitamins are best sourced from real whole food , and not as an isolate.
Vitamin E to start this post , when isolate form can be natural or synthetic.
Synthetic Vitamin E is a product of petroleum. Not food.
If you see the letters dl- prefix you are informed that this is the synthetic form. Simply put the body is able to absorb natural much better. The molecular structure is different and the body, liver specifically, will tend to select the natural over the synthetic. There is something to "body intelligence".
Natural E, d-alpha tocopherol, is the most biologically available form of E.
Does this mean that the synthetic form has no benefit ? The answer is that it can be beneficial but research has shown that it takes three to four times the dosage to have the same effect AND that when tissue samples were taken it took much much longer to show presence of E . That is an important fact for something person or animal to be in some critical need of high antioxidant . That includes cancer patients for instance. You want to make use of any time . The natural form of E , was found in the blood (first location) then in the liver tissue , and fat where it is stored , within a short time - , whereas the synthetic took -- creating example here , one month for natural , one YEAR and one half for synthetic).
E is sensitive to oxygen so it is unlikely that the bag of dog food which states that it uses E as a "natural" preservative will have any value left. In addition they would use the cheapest form , which is synthetic. So you decide how health giving that is.
Not only that vitamin E whose function it is as an antioxidant to protect the fatty acids within the cells, including red blood , from free , oxidizing (essentially rusting) radicals . When you provide real Vitamin C at the same time , the C indirectly affects oxidation in the fatty layers of the cells by converting oxidized vitamin E bck to its antioxidant form. 
So if relying on kibble for a vitamin E supply a little natural C will help somewhat.
Then there are tocotrienols, sourced from rice bran and palm nuts , which is showing to be even more interesting than Vitamin E particularly in the study of cancer prevention.
Our oxygen is changing . City smog , pollution, ozone create lung damaging oxidation. One reason to be up on your Vitamin E. Dogs working in urban situations have their air supply right at the tail pipe level breathing it all in .

So what are the FOOD sources of Vitamin E . Sunflower, almond, spirulina (very rich source !! of E and beta carotene another antioxidant) , barley grass, alfalfa greens (many greens superfoods are a combination of spirulina, barley grass and alfalfa) , split cell chorella , rosehips. .....
Those that have horses will be very familiar with rice bran oil. That is an excellent natural source of vitamin E and tocotrienols . Recently I have seen rice bran oil taking more shelf space at the health food stores with good reason .
I know these things as part of the years of research that I put in to Feed-Sentials. Every Saturday I field these very questions . 

Try to get your Vitamins Minerals from FOOD .

xxxxxx slightly changing topic but very much related.

Temperament , stress , and heightened need for antioxidants.

Stress creates oxidative chaos. The more the animal is stressed the greater the need for assistance for heatlh promotion . 


there are other studies - which I can source , when I have more time ..
Carmen
CARMSPACK.com 

Vitamin E to start this post , when isolate form can be natural or synthetic.
Synthetic Vitamin E is a product of petroleum. Not food.
If you see the letters dl- prefix you are informed that this is the synthetic form. Simply put the body is able to absorb natural much better. The molecular structure is different and the body, liver specifically, will tend to select the natural over the synthetic. There is something to "body intelligence".
Natural E, d-alpha tocopherol, is the most biologically available form of E.
Does this mean that the synthetic form has no benefit ? The answer is that it can be beneficial but research has shown that it takes three to four times the dosage to have the same effect AND that when tissue samples were taken it took much much longer to show presence of E . That is an important fact for something person or animal to be in some critical need of high antioxidant . That includes cancer patients for instance. You want to make use of any time . The natural form of E , was found in the blood (first location) then in the liver tissue , and fat where it is stored , within a short time - , whereas the synthetic took -- creating example here , one month for natural , one YEAR and one half for synthetic).
E is sensitive to oxygen so it is unlikely that the bag of dog food which states that it uses E as a "natural" preservative will have any value left. In addition they would use the cheapest form , which is synthetic. So you decide how health giving that is.
Not only that vitamin E whose function it is as an antioxidant to protect the fatty acids within the cells, including red blood , from free , oxidizing (essentially rusting) radicals . When you provide real Vitamin C at the same time , the C indirectly affects oxidation in the fatty layers of the cells by converting oxidized vitamin E bck to its antioxidant form. 
So if relying on kibble for a vitamin E supply a little natural C will help somewhat.
Then there are tocotrienols, sourced from rice bran and palm nuts , which is showing to be even more interesting than Vitamin E particularly in the study of cancer prevention.
Our oxygen is changing . City smog , pollution, ozone create lung damaging oxidation. One reason to be up on your Vitamin E. Dogs working in urban situations have their air supply right at the tail pipe level breathing it all in .

So what are the FOOD sources of Vitamin E . Sunflower, almond, spirulina (very rich source !! of E and beta carotene another antioxidant) , barley grass, alfalfa greens (many greens superfoods are a combination of spirulina, barley grass and alfalfa) , split cell chorella , rosehips. .....
Those that have horses will be very familiar with rice bran oil. That is an excellent natural source of vitamin E and tocotrienols . Recently I have seen rice bran oil taking more shelf space at the health food stores with good reason .
I know these things as part of the years of research that I put in to Feed-Sentials. Every Saturday I field these very questions . 

Try to get your Vitamins Minerals from FOOD .

xxxxxx slightly changing topic but very much related.

Temperament , stress , and heightened need for antioxidants.

Stress creates oxidative chaos. The more the animal is stressed the greater the need for assistance for heatlh promotion . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd D


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sorry , I left to do something , came back and repeated a copy of one of my old posts -- 

Sunflowers - thanks -- Sh-Emp though is not a source of vitamin E . Feed-Sentials has Vitamin E , totally natural in whole food "So what are the FOOD sources of Vitamin E . Sunflower, almond, spirulina (very rich source !! of E and beta carotene another antioxidant) , barley grass, alfalfa greens (many greens superfoods are a combination of spirulina, barley grass and alfalfa) , split cell chorella , rosehips"

oil? that would be a new one which is Power of 3-EA's ,
with camelina oil , African Red Palm oil from Ghana , and unrefined rice bran oil . Red Palm oil and Rice bran oil are rich sources of complete and complex vitamin E -- 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Interesting to digest. I have been giving D-alpha tocopherol and it does have a beneficial impact th at I can tell with Grim (he who injured back) the L form is simply a steriosomer and you get steriosomers when products are commerically produced as the natural enzymes are very picky about orientation but the basic chemical reactions are not. So basically 400mg of DL alpha tocopherol has about 200mg worth of usable vitamin E and the body has to figure out what to do with the rest.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

further to vitamin E present as a preservative in kibble , I believe this is more window dressing than function . Natural vitamin E would be compromised and synthetic form , according to recent tests and discovers has less to contribute to health than previously thought. If that bag of food also has canola oil as an energy source then you can create an anti-nutrient effect. In lab studies animals fed canola displayed Vitamin E difficiency symptoms over time. Canola likely a GMO crop which is another problem.
Vitamin E difficiency can lead to myopathy.

degenerative myopathy ? -- (going lazy route ) read this by vet neurologist Dr Clemmons "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following Vitamins are recommended. (by Dr. Clemmons. Veterinary neurologist.) 
B vitamins are water soluble and any excess amount will be eliminated through the urine. They may help in neural regeneration and are something which should be given to dogs. In DM, there is altered absorption of some B vitamins and supplementation can correct this. If your dog is healthy, then give high potency B-complex (containing approximately 50 mg of most of the B components). If your dog has DM, give stress formula B-complex containing 100 mg of most of the components. 
Antioxidants: 
Vitamin E is an important nutrient which has been shown to have a number of physiologic and pharmacological effects. It in a potent antioxidant and reduces fat oxidation and increases the production of HDL cholesterol. At higher doses is also reduces cyclooxygenase and lipooxygenases activities, decreasing production of prostaglandin's and leukotreines. As such, it is a potent anti-inflammatory drug. It will reduce platelet function and prolong the bleeding time slightly in healthy individuals. There is no known side-effects to vitamin E at levels less than 4000-6000 IU per day (except in cats, where levels >100 IU/day can create hepatolipidosis). This drug slows the progression of DM and corrects for low serum and tissue levels. In DM, there does appear to be a deficient absorption and tissue-binding protein which accounts for the low serum and tissue concentrations of vitamin E. 
I recommend that vitamin E be given to all German Shepherd dogs. 
For GSD under 2 years of age, give 400 IU of vitamin E daily. 
For GSD over 2 years of age, give 800 IU of vitamin E daily. 
If your dog develops DM, then the dose of vitamin E should be increased to 2000 IU daily. 

Vitamin C works with vitamin E and helps regenerate vitamin E, potentiating its antioxidant effect. Vitamin C supplementation does no harm, since the excess is excreted through the kidney. While dogs produce vitamin C in their bodies (unlike human beings and guinea pigs who must have it in their diet), under stress or disease, they may need vitamin C in excess of their manufacturing capacity. "
Not only Vitamin C -- minerals very important , 20 minerals , amino acids ..... as nature would have it in a whole food. 

an exerpt from Fred Lanting regarding Vitamin E and DM 
"For several years, there was no generally accepted treatment, but as breeders became aware of the benefits of high vitamin E dosages in other immune-related disorders, the veterinary profession began to look into its efficacy and the relation to the immune system. When I first encountered it, I imagined that I got an extra one or two years useful life out of one of my dogs by giving him 800 units (IU) a day, plus vitamin C for its synergistic effect. Years later Clemmons and others claimed that 2000 IU of vitamin E daily, 500 mg of vitamin C twice a day, and a high-strength vitamin B complex twice a day was the best dosage. Vitamin E is an important nutrient with a number of physiologic and pharmacological effects. As an antioxidant it helps reduce oxidation of fats and increases the production of HDL cholesterol. At higher doses it decreases production of prostaglandins and has anti-inflammatory action. There are no known side-effects to vitamin E at levels less than 4000-6000 IU per day (except in cats, where levels above 100 IU/day can create hepatolipidosis. In DM, low serum and tissue concentrations of vitamin E have been observed, although recent research by Johnston indicates this may be equivocal. I recommend that vitamin E be given to older German Shepherd Dogs for a variety of benefits. "

the complete article -- pay attention to lick granuloma !
Sirius Dog

got to get going on to morning meetings -- later

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Carmen, thank you for taking time to type this up....I think this thread should be made into a sticky. The information provided is excellent.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

add this Are your dogs and cats getting enough vitamin E? The Natural Paw


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

What about flaxseed oil? That one is very hard to escape in feeds, and to me I see - a great saleperson who is selling us on a product (linseed oil) no longer used because oil base paints have all but disappeared? I gather the ALA is not really utilzed particularly well by dogs and it is a meaningless way to jack up the omega6mega3 ratio. Does it do harm? I know it is also a source of LA but so is chicken fat I am pretty sure.

I have read that it impairs conversion of LA to GLA wheras hemp oil does not. As is though we don't know if Grim has DM (he was carrier on the controversial U of M test), Dr Clemmons supplement approach (well I have done neither soy nor aminocaproic acid) seems to be serving Grim well. I have not found a good source of borage oil so I am giving Evening primrose capsules for now.

Carmen - you need a USA distributor to get past the cost of transport to the US! I think I would like to plant a little grazing garden for the dogs. Any ideas? Also is Milk Thistle in anything? My local dog food shop says some of the Acana feeds (the ones with steel cut oats vs potatoes) can't come through customs because they have Milk Thistle in them? Shame - there are some formulas I would feed though am going to start rotating Fromm LBPG and Orijen feeds to ratios I like.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks for the article. My morning smoothie which is kefir, spinach (was kale but only winter kale), banana, strawberry, walnuts or pecans, and local raw honey, and whey protein (not much).....would be good to share with the dog!?! --- I blend it until very smooth. I buy protein without added artificial sweeteners...can always remove that.

I think so! Now how much? I consume a banana and about 5 strawberries (or other fruits)


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

whew , long day, tired , but I'll get back with more information later --

in the meantime , for your garden, soft fruit -- but watch out , you may get this ! 



 
or this ! 



 
Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The old wolf in my house helped himself to a bowl of nice organic strawberries my husband had just cleaned. Ooops. They do love strawberries.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Interesting.........

Canola Oil Report - The Straight Dope on Canola Oil

IF folks think this old stuff is, well old and meaningless I still remember in 1976 when I was an undergrad student at UGA, Dr Pfieffer (both nutrition and biochemistry departments) telling us we should eat butter instead of margarine because trans fats were horrible. Flash forward. 

I know trans fats and canola oil indirectly linked (see article) but for anything cooked, saturated fats make more sense. MODERATION MODERATION MODERATION.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

And then there is THIS info on cooking temperatures-I know high temp cooking damages fats in a very bad way - particularly unsaturated fats. 250C=482F and 90C=194F. Big difference. Orijen is cooked at a lower temp than Honest Kitchen is dried........

New Study finds Drying Time of Kibble Lessens Nutritional Value

It does make Acana/Orijen look even better. Remember, I am not currently feeding that food but these are the articles that make you think. Sorry about the tangential thinking here-this thread is about Vitamin E but it is all related.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ok concept good but article is mixing and matching C and F hard to know who uses what temperatures in there! Probably want to actually read the source article.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Here is a link to the abstract of the article-it looks like 160C (320F) is the temperature at which there starts to be concern. Only a few are at that temp but they are some of the foods people are considering. Certainly good to know since I sure bake a number of things for ourselves at 350-375 F

My statement about Honest Kitchen was wrong. It is dried at lower temps than Orijen is prepared.

ScienceDirect.com - Animal Feed Science and Technology - Effects of drying temperature and time of a canine diet extruded with a 4 or 8mm die on physical and nutritional quality indicators


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That video of wolves eating berries is fascinating. 
So much for all the info about wolves and dogs being strictly carnivores and never needing anything but meat.
I think I will give Hans some blueberries, after all.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think a hungry wolf would eat most anything...though berries are very nutritious!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

1920's stomach contents study done on wild and ferral canids -- definitely soft fruit found - 2000 study done on Eastern coyote (Parker) same contents - lots of soft fruit and fermented apple along with prey animals , herbaceous greens . Not driven by hunger or desparation , it is part of the diet , whether direct or indirect.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My dogs graze on the new grass of the season, they love it. It doesn't make them barf either. Though the pompous grass will gag them going down now and then. I've tried to give them blueberries, asparagus and strawberries, banana's, hit or miss if they accept it. 
I think any canine will graze on something that is an attraction. But how many, if any will eat something that is poisonous?


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## LinthwaiteBend (Jun 4, 2012)

E Vitamin is a common particular vitamin that we all can make employ of. Anybody who definitely wants to benefit from E Vitamin in the food plan have to evaluate specific things dependent upon the foods and nutrients that will actually have this particular vitamin. They are foods and nutrients that could be seen in several types. Below are some of the most often used foods and nutrients on earth in the case of receiving the system's correct amount of E Vitamin.



The most widespread foods and nutrients that will actually provide E Vitamin are whole grains. It is included in wheat or grain germ oils. Even so, the quantities of whole grains that offer E Vitamin are usually more diversified than that. E Vitamin can be seen in alot of totally different foods and nutrients inside of the wheat family. It really is presented in plant seeds and walnuts of all kinds.



The total amount of E Vitamin that can be seen in plant seeds or nut products will vary with regards to the forms of seed or various nuts which were being absorbed. Then again, it can be simple to receive Vitamin E Antioxidant off these foods and nutrients. The truth that these could be generated across the world will make this a beneficial concern for your personal wellbeing.



Green veggies also offer health benefits. Most of these veggies may incorporate kale and cabbage. Other sorts of fresh vegetables also will provide Vitamin E Antioxidant. Then again, the numbers of Vitamin E Antioxidant in home grown vegetables such as these won't be as intense as they possibly be around veggies.


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