# Crazy 5 month old - need help



## Trigger's Mom (Oct 16, 2015)

Trigger is a 5 month old working line GSD. Let me explain first that he lives with my husband in another state (army assignment) - he wanted a puppy to keep him company, and for some reason he was set on the working line even though his job is very demanding and time consuming. Clearly, no talking him out. 

Fast forward, they are here visiting and the dog is in my opinion out of control. Let me be fair and say I know nothing about GSD. I have a 7 year old goldendoodle who was a breeze to train, has never required kennel training, is great with my children and was great when they were babies, etc. My experience was a piece of cake.

Trigger is extremely smart - he knows his basic commands, sit, stay, lay down.. he listens to my husband (most of the time, some times he does not follow commands, but he is smart and quick to learn). He does not listen to me. He jumps all over me and I am 5 months pregnant. He jumps on the furniture and up on the counters. He pees and poops in his crate every night. He has no calm switch. He jumps all over our older dog and my dog is not very tolerant of this - even with repeated growls, snarls, warnings and light nips he is absolutely persistent with jumping all over him. When the kids are running in the yard, he jumps on their backs and nips - he nipped my 4 year old in the side, enough to leave welts and the excuse was "hes a puppy, hes still young". No, this just isnt excusable behavior in my opinion. Am I wrong?? Its hard because my husband is overly sensitive about his behavior and extremely quick to defend it.

In my opinion, my husband is not aggressive enough with the puppy. When I say aggressive, I more or less mean assertive. His excuse is "he is still young" - I dont take that as an excuse.. I feel as if he needs to be learning. His excuse is "hes not use to being around kids" - I feel as if he needs to learn to be social and well behaved in any situation.. plus we are going to be having a baby! Regardless of whether the army has us splitting our time right now or not, he still needs to learn to be behaved in any situation. Right now theres no way I would even lay a baby on a blanket with the puppy not on a leash.

I need some help and tips. My husband will be gone for training for a couple weeks, and I'd like to train the puppy. I do work full-time and I have two kids (7 & 4), we have one on the way, and I have another dog, but I dont have to really worry about him. So what I'm saying is unfortunately my time to devote to training will be in the evening when the kids are in bed and intermittently when we are all out together. I have NO experience with GSDs, no experience with a working line dog, nothing. I clearly see they require a ton of extra training and obedience than your typical mutt. He has amazing potential to be a highly intelligent and trained pup, thats why I'm so frustrated! He can be amazing. 

Hes never been trained with a clicker, just FYI. Is that too late? Also, he is the messiest dog I've ever seen with his food. Any tips? Are we feeding him wrong? Right now it just goes in a bowl. He picks it up, walks away from the bowl and then drops it all over the floor. Is this normal?

I'm sorry I sound so frustrated, I just need help and my husband and I do not agree on what is acceptable and how to train this dog.


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

Ah, sounds like you've got quite the shark on your hands! 

First off, is the pup getting enough exercise? They have a lot of energy at that age, so make sure he's getting lots of physical and mental stimulation. He needs some kind of interactive play and needs to problem solved a bit to get his gears turning. That might mean a bunch of short training sessions. ...they don't have the best attention span at that age so keep that in mind. I don't think it's too late to incorporate a clicker. He's still young and dogs can learn a ton, even in adulthood. 

I don't think it's acceptable to give the puppy a pass on everything due to his age. It isn't easy but the pup needs to learn what is and isn't acceptable before he gets even bigger and problematic. You don't want to put your children and yourself at risk. 
This may mean keeping the pup on a leash until you can trust him in certain situations...ie around kids, and your older dog. Teach him nipping isn't acceptable, anytime he nips, let out a "Yelp!" or "ow!". You can always give him a stern "no" and redirect his energy to a toy. Don't let him learn it's ok to bite. Puppies yelp when bitten too hard and thus learn bite inhibition. It's only going to get worse if he doesn't learn now. He's not going to be perfect but he's old enough to be learning acceptable behavior. 

You both have to be consistent. Read up on "nothing in life is free" training methods. I make my dog sit for everything. She sits before we walk out the door and I go out first. Initially, this meant having her sit and turning the door handle. If she got up, I'd start from the beginning. I had to open and shut the door a handful of times until she realized that we're not walking out until I tell her to "come". Be patient. Use treats as a reward.

As for the food thing, my last GSD always did this. What are you feeding him? Does have a feeding schedule? I also ask because you mentioned about peeing and pooping in the crate. My pup was a grazer with her dry food so now I mix in wet food and cottage cheese and she gobbles it right up. If she doesn't want to eat, I pick up the bowl and then put it away until her next meal. Set consistent feeding times. This will also get bowel habits on schedule. After feeding, take the pup right out. They should poop soon after. Take away the water bowl a couple hours before bed to prevent accidents. 

Hope this helps! I'm no expert but this has helped me and my pups


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

Also, you may want to look into using a professional trainer if you're getting no where. And if you work full time it may be worth while to hire a dog walker or bring him to doggy day care to burn off some energy. Typically those places offer training and you may be able to get some good advice. Tell them your issues and situation. 

At the very least, getting him to doggy day care for a bit will allow him to socialize and burn off some steam.


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## Trigger's Mom (Oct 16, 2015)

Thank you for your tips! I'm feeling a bit more encouraged - earlier I was about to give up (This was after I got him out of his crate in the morning, he had peed and pooed everywhere and SPLASHED it in my pregnant face.. baby hormones didn't like that one, lol). 

He gets an adequate amount of exercise, especially here with my older dog because I can let them run all over the backyard. Perhaps more leashed walks would help, or would atleast help him understand that he needs to also be respecting me as a master, too. We will start doing this. He loves to play fetch and I'm thinking he needs more tricky things to do to satisfy the working line in him.. he loves when you give him something to sniff and then hide it out of sight - he will stay busy for a few minutes sniffing everything until he finds it.

My concern with the jumping and nipping, I'll keep him on a leash more! I think once my husband leaves, Trigger will be more inclined to listen to me. And good tip about the NILIF training, I will start employing these tactics with him. I'd love to be able to open his crate without him jumping all over me! It makes me nervous with my pregnant belly and the kids, it scares them. It is an all dark sable GSD to he already looks a bit intimidating as is. 

Sigh.. I'm ready to have him alone and work with him. I'll get him on a consistent feeding schedule too and start taking away his water a couple hours before bed. I'm going to try moving his crate into my bedroom, my husband put his crate in the garage while he was here. Maybe he feels isolated and hes peeved. At the very least, hopefully I will wake up from him letting me know he needs to go potty.

Fingers crossed that after mommy boot-camp, my husband comes home to a better behaved dog and a less frazzled wife!


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

Trigger's Mom said:


> Thank you for your tips! I'm feeling a bit more encouraged - earlier I was about to give up (This was after I got him out of his crate in the morning, he had peed and pooed everywhere and SPLASHED it in my pregnant face.. baby hormones didn't like that one, lol).
> 
> He gets an adequate amount of exercise, especially here with my older dog because I can let them run all over the backyard. Perhaps more leashed walks would help, or would atleast help him understand that he needs to also be respecting me as a master, too. We will start doing this. He loves to play fetch and I'm thinking he needs more tricky things to do to satisfy the working line in him.. he loves when you give him something to sniff and then hide it out of sight - he will stay busy for a few minutes sniffing everything until he finds it.
> 
> ...


I like your spirit! When he goes to jump, lift your knee so he bumps into it with his chest. He'll get it and you'll be protecting your belly. Unfortunately watching a pup is a full time job of walking, exercising, and watching his body language so you can anticipate his next move. I think you'll do great, just keep at it and get hubby on the same page


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

Trigger's Mom said:


> I'd love to be able to open his crate without him jumping all over me!


This goes for pretty much ANYTHING but this is a great example of how to work; you'll want to start looking at the behaviors the pup is doing, WHY he's doing them, and then figure out how to control it. This is a perfect example. If he's like a tornado in his crate waiting to come out, opening the door is going to be like opening the gates at a race track. You're going to want to work on things that start building the dog's self control. So, you go a little further than the typical advice of "Wait until the puppy is quiet to open the crate." You're ultimate goal is going to be waiting until the puppy is calm and not ready to lunge, and then you're going to have him wait for your command to be released. If the pup isn't used to this, it is going to take some time, but it's WELL worth it. It teaches that he has to have a clear head coming out instead of being completely wound up, and it also teaches that you are someone worth listening to.

The way you work on it is pretty straight forward, but like I said, it takes some time. You want calm, still behavior out of the dog. So if you start your approach, and he starts wiggling or getting excited, you want to hold still and wait. If you see behavior you're happy with (when you FIRST start, you might want to give a little wiggle room on this because he's learning what you expect out of him), start moving forward again. If the behavior resumes, freeze. Once you're able, reach for the latch on the crate. Once you're getting to this part, if he starts going crazy again, you'll want to back off a bit so he figures out stillness=you moving TOWARDS opening the crate, movement=you backing off. Once the thing is unlatched, be prepared to hold it shut while he rams it, they ALWAYS ram it when they don't know what's going on, hahaha!! Then just hold it there until, again, you get the behavior you want. When you're first, first doing this, you're probably going to want to give your release ("Ok!" or whatever you use, just be consistent) right prior to opening the door so he gets used to hearing it. Then you work up in tiny increments with maybe opening it a crack, then a little further every time, as long as you can tell he's understand it and it's not too much for him. Eventually, you'll end up with a dog that sits calmly in the crate until you give a command, regardless of whether the door is open or not.

You can/should absolutely do this same thing with food/treats when training. I use kibble because my dog is CRAZY food motivated, but anything about that size is good. You get a handful in your fist, sit stationary somewhere, and just hold your arm in your lap. Let the dog sniff, lick, paw, etc, but keep your fist tight and closed. Then you work EXACTLY like the crate. If the dog backs off and is calm (sitting, standing, laying, whatever, just so long as he's not still wandering or lunging) start opening your hand. The first time, your dog WILL go for it, and you WILL have to snap your hand shut again, haha! But eventually he'll figure out that the only way to open it is to back off. Once he's not going for it anymore and you can have your hand open, take a treat in your opposite hand and feed him. Keep feeding him as long as he's backed off. If he starts going for your treat hand, snap it shut and wait. Again, this teaches self control!

This same process also goes for opening doors to outside! 

When it comes to the kids, I really highly recommend this book by Colleen Pelar:
Living with Kids and Dogs . . . Without Losing Your Mind: A Parent's Guide to Controlling the Chaos (Volume 2): Colleen Pelar: 9781933562124: Amazon.com: Books

Her whole training career is geared towards families and keeping both the kids and dogs happy. It's a wonderful book with lots of food for thought. She also has a website with lots of great info:
Living with Kids and Dogs

I agree with the leash around the kids. Also, I have to say, to a degree I agree with your husband on the puppy not being used to the situation around kids. You want to make sure you're setting your dog up for success. Throwing the puppy in a situation where the energy level is through the roof, kids running around, a new environment... it's going to make a puppy that isn't used to that sort of thing pretty wild. You can't really get upset with a puppy that hasn't had an opportunity to learn what to do in that situation. We have a rule in our house, even with our pup being 10 months old. She just isn't allowed in the same room as my 4 year old if he's currently being "wild" and running around like a jackass (or is that just MY son? hahaha!) When she IS out, I make sure I'm sitting near my son, or on the floor in front of him if he's on the couch so I can be a buffer. If we had a larger house, I'd also have her leashed, but our house is TINY so that's not really an issue.... ha! Also, she's been exposed to all this since she was 8 weeks old. Your pup is 5 months and hasn't been living with kids, it's going to be a HUGE adjustment for him. The leash acts as a safety net. If you see he's about to jump, chase, etc, you can step on the leash and stop it (or just tighten up if you're holding it). But your REAL goal is to have the dog be calm and focused on you or its own toys/chews instead of getting so worked up he feels like he has to chase the kids. It's like dogs at the dog park who get worked up into a frenzy with each other and can't even hear what you're saying anymore. You want to avoid getting to that space as much as humanly possible. If you're overwhelmed, or you know it won't be a safe area for them together, you either crate or put the pup in another room. You want to keep your interactions as positive, controlled, and calm as you can.

It's really wonderful that you're so dedicated to working with the dog. It's really unfair of your husband to get a puppy while you're pregnant, that is a LOT of work that it sounds like he has no time for. Good luck with everything, keep us updated on how things go!!


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

Wolf gave some sound advice!

Regarding the future...when your hubby comes back, are you going to be staying together or are you going to be separated for a while?

If you're together, that's great! You can show him what you're been teaching the dog and hopefully persuade/motivate him to approach your puppy training the same. You can always read up on book or check out the tons of youtube videos...share them with hubby! I know you only have a little time alone with the pup, but hopefully you can make some progress to convince him that the dog is trainable at this age. Since he's a bit defensive, try not to criticize him. Instead make suggestions and try to encourage it as a group effort. Keep training positive....not just with your pup but with your hubby as well.  Show him you've done your homework instead of making him feel like he's doing it wrong.

Have you looked into obedience classes? They're great for a pup! They learn new things in a different setting and it helps to stimulate their brains. Plus SNACKS! It's something you could do together or if your husband is going out of state again, it's something he could do on his own. It's a great way for a human to bond with their dog, set expectations, and have a neutral party correct them. You're husband may be more open to a third party offering advice rather than his wife. I'm assuming your husband doesn't think you're an "expert" and might take your suggestions the wrong way. Even going for a few obedience classes is a good way to teach the dog and owner new things....and it's typically affordable. Plus, he'll get to show off his smart, obedient dog!  great sense of pride for the pup and the owner. 
It's not MANDATORY, but i'd highly suggest it. Maybe as a gift if you can swing it....and maybe suggest it's a gift for the dog, not for your husband persay. I'd be afraid he'd interpret that as, "you are a terrible dog trainer so i'm mandating you do this."

Let us know how it goes!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not a fan of WL GSDs and do not have a ton of experience with them, but it sounds like you are a pretty dog-savvy person. You recognize positive traits in a pup that you probably have every right to be frustrated and concerned about.

My feeling is that the pup is probably ok, but his training and the management to date is not what he needs. He can be salvaged. Maybe not by your husband. 

You have your hands full. But you also seem to be the one who has the dog-sense. If I were in your shoes, if at all possible, I would put my foot down with an ultimatum: He leaves the puppy with you or he gets rid of the puppy -- not forever, but until the pup is 1-2 years old. Because the dog needs structure, house training, children training, obedience training, and you have a baby coming. 

This dog can be the best dog you have ever had and great companion for your husband and kids as well. I don't think your husband can step it up, on his own, considering the pup is not house trained or crate trained. He doesn't have the kids, so the pup is not getting used to the the rhythms of a home with kids. 

Sheps tend to mature relatively slowly. I wouldn't expect perfect obedience, but I would expect a 5 month old pup to be house trained and not soiling the crate at this point. He should not be jumping on counters and unless your husband allowed him on the couches, he should understand some house rules. I would expect a five month old pup raised with kids to not be nipping them at this point. But your dog has not been raised with your kids, so he needs to learn this post haste. The pup needs to chew, so he should have a pretty good idea of what he should be chewing on. Probably there will be some _accidents_ in this area. 

Good luck with the puppy.


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## taika (Oct 17, 2015)

Working line GSDs are awesome.  working doesn't mean dominance.

I have German shepherds since i was college but my wife didn't. When we got married in 2004 we got a GSD puppy together - she was so scared of the pup and not even sure what to do with him - the pup bites, nips, everything. 

You know the difference? Dogs don't respond to "commands" or whatever - sure i'm sure they understand what they mean, but dogs respond to TONE more than anything. Once my wife realized that and use a much deeper and firmer voice, it became a lot easier. Higher pitch sounds (i.e. women) would tend tot ell the puppy that what it is doing is fine. You can scream high pitch all you want, but the pup won't respond to that. Just look at how they behave - dog GROWLS in low voices, dogs YELP high pitch in pain or submission.

Use a very firm voice and only reward the dog if he does something right, be ruthless in terms of rewards and resolute in your voice. Use a prong collar.


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## taika (Oct 17, 2015)

As far as training goes, EVERY time he goes outside, you train him, it doesn't matter if it's bathroom break or not, you give it a 5-10 minute training session. SIT, DOWN, COME. Use a leash and some nice treats. 

After that, every time he eats, you do the same. Hold bowl, tell him on the down command (down is definitely the must because it's a submissive thing). then give him the bowl. 

Toys - use an "OUT" command when you want him to leave the toy. What i do is i reward him with OUT command by giving the toy back to him. If i have to pry the toy away, he doesnt get it back.

Soiling in the crate - this is really easily correctable but as time goes on if your GSD is used to being a dirty dog, then it can be a real problem. Every time my dog goes out of the crate, it goes OUTSIDE, even if she doesn't pee. She gets a huge praise when she goes to the bathroom outside. If she makes a mistake inside the crate and I am out, i don't punish her (i.e. mymistake for letting you stay in for too long), i just take her out immediately and clean her completely. If she makes a mistake at home, i just say "NO!!" and take her outside immediately. Pretty soon they associate going to the bathroom as being outside.

WHen a pup is born their mom cleans them (they typically dont' leave the den, so the mom licks everything off of them and you can imagine what that involves) - so the mom keeps them clean and they have a natural desire to be clean - if you keep letting them in the crate all soiled up then they'll associate that as being normal and it'd be very difficult to correct later.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

taika said:


> As far as training goes, EVERY time he goes outside, you train him, it doesn't matter if it's bathroom break or not, you give it a 5-10 minute training session. SIT, DOWN, COME. Use a leash and some nice treats.
> I wouldn't do this, since you are still having house training issues, I would take him out to potty, every time he wakes up, eats, plays hard and if he hasn't been out for a couple of hours. I would go out there, wait for a potty, then I would praise the dog, give a little more time "Go Poopie Too?" And if nothing more, I would go in. Potty breaks are for pottying until we have that down.
> 
> After that, every time he eats, you do the same. Hold bowl, tell him on the down command (down is definitely the must because it's a submissive thing). then give him the bowl.
> ...


Soiling in the crate is most likely happening because the busy husband has been leaving the pup in the crate longer than his bladder and bowels could manage. You have to take the puppy out before you get dressed. The pup has to go out NOW. The pup has to go out again after eating. It is like the process of eating stimulates the bowel and a movement is going to happen. If you load the puppy full of water and then you do not get him out when he needs to go, he has to go in the enclosed place, and then he has to lie in it. There is just no way around this. And the puppy learns that this is the way life is. I would probably remove any bedding in the crate, and with a strict schedule, I would shut off food and then water, a few hours later I would take the pup out a last time in the evening, and then I would crate him for the night. In the morning, first thing out to pee and maybe poop, then back inside to eat, then back outside to do it again. Then the pup can be crated for 2 hours or so, but I would probably baby-gate him in a puppy safe area near the hub of activity. 

I would protect the older dog from him, and the children by removing the pup and putting him in his safe zone before he becomes too annoying.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

taika said:


> As far as training goes, EVERY time he goes outside, you train him, it doesn't matter if it's bathroom break or not, you give it a 5-10 minute training session. SIT, DOWN, COME. Use a leash and some nice treats.


I like this idea. IF IF IF it's a bathroom break, make sure to have a party when he goes with lots of praise. 



taika said:


> After that, every time he eats, you do the same. Hold bowl, tell him on the down command (down is definitely the must because it's a submissive thing). then give him the bowl.


This is an excellent idea. It teaches them control. I had to do this with my boy. He's such a food hound that he would have your hand in his mouth before the dish was on the floor. He happily throws himself into his spot in a down when I put his dish down and he doesn't move until I release him.

Another thought is to use his food for training. It does a few things. One, he has to work for his food. He's hungry. It makes him a little more willing to work. If you feed kibble then take half the food and use it for training. One piece at at time. Then give him the other half. This will also help you not push him to far. When the food is gone, you are done training!

"Young" doesn't mean he can be mannerless. No, it is not to late for clicker training. No more jumping. No more being a monster. If he wants something, he has to work for it. But remember to play with him! Play games! Throw a piece of food for him to chase and call him back to you. Feed. Throw another. Play tug with him. Interact with him. You have a working line. They are higher drive than other lines. They need a higher level of interaction. Teach him what you want from him. These dogs are smart and want to be with their owners.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Buy the DVD Crate Games. This will help teach him control (and it will also solve the flying out of the crate and jumping on you issue!). It's only $30 and well worth it.


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## Wolfenstein (Feb 26, 2009)

selzer said:


> I wouldn't do this either. I train with treats for puppies, but I let my dog have their food without any strings attached. I know, they aren't people. But I do not like to put more stress onto feeding time or the food dish than necessary. I put the food down without any fan fare and I come and pick it up without any. I don't have resource guarders, and my dogs are bright enough to figure out who controls the good stuff. Down is a submissive thing. I do not want my dogs to prove their submissiveness to be before getting their food.


I can't say I really agree with this. I don't have my dog sit or be calm or go in the crate for food because I'm trying to prove something about dominance or submission. It's because I don't want a jackass dog jumping all over when I'm trying to feed her. With my husky, he's good and just gives you excited eyes with his food, so with him I'll just put it down. But he got this way because I'd asked for manners when he was younger and more exuberant. With the puppy, it's a struggle. If left to her own devices, she'd be wild as heck and boinging all over the place, including knocking me over and jumping over gates that she shouldn't be jumping over. It's not about being dominant at all, it's about teaching the behaviors that are acceptable in the house.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Hmmm, I've never made my dogs (any of my dogs ever) wait (sit-stay or down-stay) to eat. My wildest dog is Russell. He doesn't walk, he bounces. I've always fed him in a crate. When I get ready to feed him, and he sees the bowl in my hand, he can't get to his crate fast enough! Runs in there, turns around and waits for me to set the bowl down. I didn't set out to train that, but repetition caused it.


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## Gabby117 (Jan 13, 2014)

The two of you are saying almost the same thing, training your own way. I have listened to all of you on this board and agree with the people that do not want a rude GSD and trained her as I trained for sit, stay that this would be part of feeding time. When the food comes out she knows to sit and stay until I am finished with feeding her.


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

Wolfenstein said:


> I can't say I really agree with this. I don't have my dog sit or be calm or go in the crate for food because I'm trying to prove something about dominance or submission. It's because I don't want a jackass dog jumping all over when I'm trying to feed her. With my husky, he's good and just gives you excited eyes with his food, so with him I'll just put it down. But he got this way because I'd asked for manners when he was younger and more exuberant. With the puppy, it's a struggle. If left to her own devices, she'd be wild as heck and boinging all over the place, including knocking me over and jumping over gates that she shouldn't be jumping over. It's not about being dominant at all, it's about teaching the behaviors that are acceptable in the house.


Agree with you. I have her sit so that she doesn't jump and go into a frenzy when it's time to eat. It's not a dominance thing, it's table manners  she listened day one and never puts up a fuss


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

1fastRN said:


> Agree with you. I have her sit so that she doesn't jump and go into a frenzy when it's time to eat. It's not a dominance thing, it's table manners  she listened day one and never puts up a fuss


LOL Exactly. It's because I like my nose not to be moved across my face as I put a dish on the floor. Anyone who has ever seen my dog in a down would not term the position as "submissive". I use a down because it's more stable and easier for them to maintain.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> Hmmm, I've never made my dogs (any of my dogs ever) wait (sit-stay or down-stay) to eat. My wildest dog is Russell. He doesn't walk, he bounces. I've always fed him in a crate. When I get ready to feed him, and he sees the bowl in my hand, he can't get to his crate fast enough! Runs in there, turns around and waits for me to set the bowl down. I didn't set out to train that, but repetition caused it.



Now move the crate. I bet he runs to the same spot the crate was and does whatever he would do in the crate. That's what happened when I put the little puppy crate up. Seger still goes to that spot because they are creatures of habit.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

taika said:


> After that, every time he eats, you do the same. Hold bowl, tell him on the down command (down is definitely the must because it's a submissive thing). then give him the bowl.


So when I quoted this and agreed above, I missed the whole "submissive" thing. I was agreeing to the action of making him hold a position prior to getting his food. 

Personally, I think the whole dominance/submissive relationship is a bunch of outdated crap. The guy that came up with the whole dominance/submissive theory has since recanted and stated his theory was based on artificial constructs, therefore....a bunch of outdated crap.

I have my dog down because it is a stable position. I could have him sit but it's easier for him to hold a down than a sit. It doesn't matter as along as he is holding position and controlling himself. 

Having them still until you release them does two things and two things only....
(1) teaches them impulse control. They want that which you have but have to control their action in order to get it. 
(2) saves you from restocking your first aid kit. 
- Personally, this is my favorite perk. I like NOT laying on the bathroom floor with blood coming out of my nose because he bashed into it as I bent down.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I only have one nutcase, and she only bangs the food so it hits the ground. She'll get it someday. LOL. The rest of my dogs do not need to hold a stable position to get fed because they just don't cause any problems.

Another thread a few days ago was having trained the dog heavy with food and treats and they ended up with a resource guarder. The general advice tended toward not making the food such a focal point in training. For that dog it didn't go as planned. 

I still think that until the dog is successful in where it does and doesn't potty, potty breaks should be for pottying and praising when it goes in the right spot and then back in. The dog needs to get it that this is the time for pottying and the place. 

Having got at least one concussion from a dog's rock hard head, I shouldn't say anything, but, is this a WL trait that dogs are so nutty about their food that they will flatten you to get to their food?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I only read the first page of this...

Congrats on your little fire ball! Every pup is different. My 6 yo came out of the box with focus. First time she was on a leash it was as though she were born on a leash. Show her to ring the bell to go out twice and she had it down. Very few wrecks in the house; wrecks in the crate only when ill. My 2 yo is another long long story. It took until she was 1 yo to have her house broken. She never did get "ring the bell to go out" What she does is yodel loudly if you approach the door. She could have been out two minutes before. Doesn't matter. Now the 2 yo loves her crate because we instituted crate games right off the back. She's very food motivated so I put the word "load" on going in the crate & rewarded it with a treat. (heck with her just a piece of kibble was good). But very soon (maybe two or three times) I could say load and she would race to the crate from the other room. Because she is food motivated, I could have her sit before I put her food bowl down. Yes she had bolted out of the crate and slammed me. A "fuss" from a "sitz" = a leap at my face and a dive behind my back to reach heel position. With luck this is going to look great when we go for our BH. Without luck she's going to barrel past me into a 45 degree sit and then finish when commanded... 

You may or may not be able to "wait until the dog is calm" to do anything. We'd never get out the door if I waited for the 2 yo black tornado to calm down. I would get lots of excercise 'though as I got her settled, approached the door to have the dog go nuts, walked away and repeated for hours.

For crapping in the crate -- if you can make sure the dog has gone outside before you crate him, that will help (yup you have to be there & reward this act.) So will not loosing it or showing any signs of annoyance (I am not good at this) at the wrecks. He may just do better not crated. [Hmm do I hear you screaming???]

So you have many suggestions. Try some to see if they will work for you.

This really sounds like a bang up wonderful dog and they do get some brains by 2 yo. If your spouse had a chance to join a IPO club, I think this dog would do great.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

"Having got at least one concussion from a dog's rock hard head, I shouldn't say anything, but, is this a WL trait that dogs are so nutty about their food that they will flatten you to get to their food? "

No. BTE2 is not that nutty about her food. BTY2 - well, close. But when they are that nutty about their food you can use that to advantage. (as in you aint gettin dinner till you sit your hairy butt on the floor!)


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

Totally agree with the poster below. While one method may work for one pup, it may not always work for another. However, consistency seems to work across the board. Even with leash walking, if the co dog understands you are the master and the expectations are set, I find it creates less anxiety the dog will learn what is expected and heven can enjoy his walks without anxiety (for the most part). Puppies can be stubborn and head strong though so he'll test the limits a lot. Just be firm and consistent and as he matures you should have yourself a well trained dog. 

Don't be afraid to ask questions. GSDs are "easy"bc they're smart and love to learn. But they can also be too smart for their own good, which can be frustrating in the beginning. Stick with it, get your husband on the same page (without "criticizing )and your efforts will pay off.

As for the crate issues, I already suggested the feeding schedule and limiting water intake before bed. Another tip, make sure the crate is clean and free of odor. Urine odormight trigger the pup to think "hey! It's ok to pee/poop here! "
Also, how big is the crate? My pup has never had an accident in the crate. In the past, my last girl did but that was my fault bc I left her in all night. I've heard of some dogs utilizing a spot in the crate to do their business bc the crate was too big..in general, dogs don't like to urinate/defecate in their "den". If the crate is too big this may be the issue. They sell crate partitions and adjustable crates so you can make the crate bigger as he grows. I can find a link of your interest. 

Is the pup with you now? Any updates? Also, I'd love to see some pictures.  keep us in the loop and don't be afraid to ask away?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Actually, intelligence has nothing to do with a well-behaved/trained dog. In fact the smarter they are, the tougher they can be about some things. They will find ways to amuse themselves, they will figure out how to work their crates and how to get others free, they will wait for opportunities. 

They are smart, so we have to tire them mentally and physically. Any dumb dog can learn to sit and sit every single time. If you have a dumb dog, than teach it to sit when you stop, and it will do that every time, no problem. Teach it to sit when it is called in front of you, and it will do it without fail. Dumb dogs are easy. Smart dogs are thinking, ok, she wants me to sit, but there is this butterfly, and if I kind of put my butt on the ground, I can still scoot along and chase the butterfly in a sit position and make everyone happy. Ok maybe that is a weird example. But we tell the dumb dog to come, and it comes flying toward us, we raise our hand DOWN, and it slams to the ground -- obedience people love this. 

The smart dog does this one time, and then the next time you tell them to come, they start hesitating there in the middle expecting/anticipating your command of down. 

Point is, intelligent dogs are really not easier to train or manage, but when we know how to work with them, they are heads and tails over other dogs. They can be boogers when puppies though.


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## Trigger's Mom (Oct 16, 2015)

*Thank you for all the tips!*

Okay wow, I am so thankful for all the tips on training! I am definitely going to be using a lot of these. In regards to the smart/dumb pups - I absolutely think smart dogs are harder. My 7 year old Ernie is a goldendoodle, is isn't incredibly intelligent, but hes not dumb either. He just minds his business and has never been a trouble maker. He is such a well behaved sweetheart, and was just easy from the start. Normal puppy behavior.

Watching Trigger sometimes, I'm blown away by his brains and mischievousness. This = trouble at times, but I know he can be an excellent, very intelligent and well behaved dog.

So a few nights ago my pregnant self fell asleep on the couch with Trigger out. He slept right on the floor below me ALL night. No accidents. I thought great .. maybe I can start keeping him in my room at night, letting him feel "free", since he is in the crate while I am at work. He has done excellent with this. No accidents! I do get up once to let him out around 2 am. He usually sleeps on the floor on my older dogs bed right by me. Last night he decided to sleep at the foot of the bed - I am okay with my dogs sleeping in my bed. Not for some but my older doggy has always done this.

So - thats going great. He also has not soiled the crate during the day while I am at work once since I've been doing this. Hubby is okay with this and said he will do it when they return home too. 

I also started feeding him in his crate - I'm not sure if this is a good idea but I got so sick of him dropping EVERY bite of food ALL OVER THE FLOOR as he runs into a different room to eat. its odd. He has since started going right into his crate without a fuss for meal times, and actually eats his food. (When I was leaving it out for him, he would graze for an hour. This has been working well, so unless its truly a terrible idea I think I'll keep doing it?

So now my tasks are getting him to not be a Tasmanian Devil when I open his crate when I'm home - he is exactly like a race horse waiting to be released and then just goes absolutely INSANE in the house - add in 2 kids and its no bueno! I think I'll work on making him realize that calm = release. And also keep him on a leash at first around the kids and firmly in a tone he will respond to let him know that it is NOT okay to jump on the kids. 

Please no one kill me for asking this! But is it okay to give him a bop on the nose when he jumps? Or should I just use a firm tone of voice? When he nips, I've been firmly grabbing his bottom jaw and saying "No bite!" he seems to respond to this and won't do it again. I'll then put my hand out near his mouth and he will just sniff and lick. With the jumping, maybe the leash will just help and saying "down!" but i'm not sure if a bop on the nose would be effective too?

Again, thank you! I so appreciate the tips and I'm looking forward to a full weekend together to really focus a lot more. So far, we have been doing much better since hubby left.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Try leashing him when you take him out of the crate and stand with him until he's calm,then take him outside to potty then let him zoom around a little.May make for calmer behavior inside.


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## Trigger's Mom (Oct 16, 2015)

*Pictures of the tornado*

This is Trigger! I could not resist when I saw this cheeseburger costume for 75% off.. I mean he HAD to have it, right?!

He is strange and creepy with that bear. He will go absolutely insane playing with it, then fiercely hump it (ew), then he will suddenly stop EVERYTHING he is doing and just hold it in his mouth for like 15 minutes.. not moving at all. just staring straight ahead. Its very odd, and definitely creepy in my book lol.

And yes.. hes wearing a Captain America tshirt! I have a thing for doggy t-shirts.


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## 1fastRN (Sep 28, 2015)

This is so true! You can see their little gears turning and it's like they test you to see how much they can get away with. My little one knows she's not allowed on the couch but she'll sprint around and bounce off the couch anyway like naughty toddler. Their intelligence is impressive but annoying in this phase. When they are older and learn impulse control then they really shine!



selzer said:


> Actually, intelligence has nothing to do with a well-behaved/trained dog. In fact the smarter they are, the tougher they can be about some things. They will find ways to amuse themselves, they will figure out how to work their crates and how to get others free, they will wait for opportunities.
> 
> They are smart, so we have to tire them mentally and physically. Any dumb dog can learn to sit and sit every single time. If you have a dumb dog, than teach it to sit when you stop, and it will do that every time, no problem. Teach it to sit when it is called in front of you, and it will do it without fail. Dumb dogs are easy. Smart dogs are thinking, ok, she wants me to sit, but there is this butterfly, and if I kind of put my butt on the ground, I can still scoot along and chase the butterfly in a sit position and make everyone happy. Ok maybe that is a weird example. But we tell the dumb dog to come, and it comes flying toward us, we raise our hand DOWN, and it slams to the ground -- obedience people love this.
> 
> ...


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## Trigger's Mom (Oct 16, 2015)

*Making progress.. then regress*

Trigger and I were making great progress for about a week and then things just completely fell apart and he went total batsh*! crazy. Not listening to me at all, jumping on counters persistently, jumping up on my pregnant belly persistently, nipping the kids (who have learned to be super calm when walking around him even), barking nonstop in my face when I discipline him .. sigh.... I am not at all use to this kind of behavior in a puppy. 

Is it just the breed? This is making me appreciate my old goldendoodle, Ernie, even more! As sad as that sounds  He has been such an easy, great, family dog. Perfectly trained.

I have the dog whisperer coming tomorrow evening to help us! I am soooo excited. My sister in law knows his intern and was able to set up a 4 hour session for us. Will keep you updated on how he does!


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