# Biting? Training? 9 week old female



## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

All right, y'all. Sorry to sound super repetitive, I know there are threads about the same dang thing, but I wanted to start my own.

We got Nyx the day she turned 7 weeks and tomorrow she'll turn 9 weeks. She is my first shepherd and large breed female dog in general. I have a 9 year male old border collie, as I've stated in other posts, who was honestly an awesome puppy. Potty trained quickly, learned multiple commands in the span of an afternoon, was all in all an absolute dreamboat little gentleman pup. 

I don't want to compare, but Nyx is a little terror in puppy form! She's VERY bitey and nippy (only increases by the day), does not seem to care much about food/toy rewards, not catching on to potty training, stubborn and wants to do everything on her terms. We're working on crate training and I think that's the only thing that's going well. Honestly, I'm so scared of failing her. I know she's a puppy and I try to be active with her in our yard. We run and play almost every time we go outside, we play with toys in the house, and I still praise with food when she does something well. I think I'm the most worried about allowing unwanted behaviors to continue to happen and have them become cemented as an adult. Any form of punishment seems to rev her up and she growls and comes after us harder. I want to get her into formal obedience training but want to make sure that I don't start to early. 

BOTTOM LINE: 9 week old pup is super nippy, stubborn, and doesn't listen. Is it too early for formal obedience training? Will her "typical" puppy behavior turn into something unwanted as an adult? Am I expecting way way wayyyy too much right now? Stay tuned, folks!:wink2:


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

You are expecting way too much of a 9wk puppy. But that's ok. I think we all expect more and forget they're just puppies. I know I did

My pup didn't get noticably better with potty training until 13wks and started whining to us about wanting to go out at 14wks. I, honsetly, feel that's about the normal time most pups will learn it better. Some people get lucky and are good at 10wks. I've heard of some people who finally get it around 5-6mos. Puppies don't start gaining more bladder control until around 12wks... so I've read. Just keep up with taking pup outside as often as you need to. The issue will resolve in time. Be vigilant 

My pup also didn't care much for food/ toy rewards. Again, you have a little puppy. My pup didn't really get more into treats until a little older

As for tricks, the only thing I taught off the get go was "sit." If someone walked by, I'd put tension on her leash backward and she's sit. At home, you hold a treat above and ease back behind their head and they'll end up sitting their butt down and you treat. Say command when they do this. My pup learned this quick because it seemed I always had to put her in a sit outside because of someone walking by. I'd say she had sit decently by 10-11wks

Again, they are all different. At 21wks, my pup still hasn't learned "spin" even after doing it for over a month, haha. Not a big deal

I have read of some forumers who don't even bother training until their pup is 5mos old and they ended up with very nice dogs

I, too, saw an increase in hyperness after a correction for biting. I do not agree with redirecting biting with a toy as that seems like rewarding for biting. I would say "NO!" and play/ pets would stop, but puppy seemed to think that play was still going. Maybe get up and completely leave the area (If you have an area fenced off). However, they are puppies and they explore with their mouths. I've read that they do grow out of it as they mature. My 21wk pup still opens her mouth when playing and sometimes will catch you. Getting tired of it, but I don't think it's anything I can correct


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## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

Thank you so much, Armistice! She does well with sit, actually, but thats the only on-command thing she does almost every single time. Proud of her, though! I'm happy to know some people start training pretty late. The breeder we got her from trains as well, and they don't even allow obedience training until a dog is at least 6 months. I just get worried! I don't want to do the wrong thing, and I largely feel that our dogs behavior are a reflection of us. I want to make sure I do right by her, ya know?


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

I'm still training my pup. Even at 21wks, she still doesn't fully have sit or down. We're still working on stay. She's doing better, but sometimes doesn't want to wait long enough so will break stay. It happens

Also, my pup is going to be 5mos next week. 5mos is around the teenage phase and so expect some rebelling and recall will diminish, sometimes a lot. It is nothing about you, it's just a phase all pups go through

Also, I'm not using a trainer or any puppy classes. All training is by me

My thing is learn different ways to train something. I've watched 4 different ways to leash train. I start with one, and if it works, great! If it doesn't work, I have 3 more options to choose from

Don't get too hung up. You have a puppy for 1-1.5yrs, then you should have a well behaved adult for another 9+yrs if you did even a halfway decent job


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

A puppy that young needs food, play, sleep. You can shape with food, but it's not really training.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> A puppy that young needs food, play, sleep. You can shape with food, but it's not really training.


I would like to add that any "training" we did was only a few rounds. I'd do a session of sit- down- stand. No joke I could do that maybe 2ce before she got bored. Their attention span is short so don't expect a long session. A few commands will be all you get before pup wants to play with toys


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## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

I appreciate you guys, thanks for the reassurance. I'm so excited to progress with her and I have high hopes!


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## BradyC87 (Dec 20, 2017)

Our Winston is almost 5 months and exercise has seemed to be the best way to prevent the bad behavior. A bored puppy is a little terrorist that will make you question your decision to get a puppy but a tired puppy is a little angel that reminds you why you got them in the first place.

At first, Winston would play for 15-20 minutes then pass out for an hour or more, rinse and repeat. I have also found that the most ideal for getting some quality focused training time is when he is tired. Correcting bad behavior at all times is essential but so far we seem to have a puppy who listens and remembers his training better when he is not bored or has too much energy from lack of exercise. Over the holidays here in MN we had a couple weeks straight of weather below 0 degrees where we were limited in outside time and walks and he was pretty naughty towards the end of that stretch. We are back to normal with some better temps now and back to walking twice a day with several hours of play with his puppy playmate at my parents every day and he is behaving much better.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

BradyC87 said:


> Our Winston is almost 5 months and exercise has seemed to be the best way to prevent the bad behavior. A bored puppy is a little terrorist that will make you question your decision to get a puppy but a tired puppy is a little angel that reminds you why you got them in the first place.
> 
> At first, Winston would play for 15-20 minutes then pass out for an hour or more, rinse and repeat. I have also found that the most ideal for getting some quality focused training time is when he is tired. Correcting bad behavior at all times is essential but so far we seem to have a puppy who listens and remembers his training better when he is not bored or has too much energy from lack of exercise. Over the holidays here in MN we had a couple weeks straight of weather below 0 degrees where we were limited in outside time and walks and he was pretty naughty towards the end of that stretch. We are back to normal with some better temps now and back to walking twice a day with several hours of play with his puppy playmate at my parents every day and he is behaving much better.


I'd second that

Not only do they need physical exercise, but they need mental exercise as well. I've just started doing some treat work where she has to find what hand the treat is in. Also, I've been using one toy I've named Squeak to start with toy recognition. I can hide Squeak and then tell my pup "Find Squeak!" Start off with toy in the open, but as your pup gets better, start putting it in more challenging places like on a set of stairs, on top of something, or halfway under something


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## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

The below 0 weather slammed us in MI this past week and it was in the single digits when we brought her home. It's finally starting to warm up enough to play for a long time in the yard! She loves it, exploring and doing the whole nine.


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

Mine did the STAR Puppy class for 6 weeks. She’s freaky smart and enjoys formal training. 

She was a total land shark. I can’t even give you advice about that because nothing worked. I ended up spraying myself down in apple cider vinegar and that slowed down the biting a little. 

I’ll be honest, this is the most trying dog I’ve ever had. I researched before I got her and read they were “mouthy” and “chewey”. If I had known that she would rip the flesh off my hands, I would have chosen a different dog. 

We’re bonded now, so all I can do is train her and exercise her. I can’t give her up. But I will never have another GSD. Lesson learned.


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## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

Joys said:


> Mine did the STAR Puppy class for 6 weeks. She’s freaky smart and enjoys formal training.
> 
> She was a total land shark. I can’t even give you advice about that because nothing worked. I ended up spraying myself down in apple cider vinegar and that slowed down the biting a little.
> 
> ...


See, you had a BC as well, so I feel like you know how vastly different it is going from them to the GSD (even if yours was a rescue as an adult). My plan was to get another BC but my fiancé got a house and so we got his dream dog! I have no doubts that we'll get a male GSD in a few years, but my hope is to have another BC before then. OT, I know! Just figured you knew exactly what it was like going from one to the other!


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Whoever it was that said your pup needs food play and sleep was spot on. No need to push training right now. If you have any decent sized room in your house bust out a flirt pole and get the pup moving and chasing. Somebody suggested redirecting is a reward and that's not really accurate. You should redirect the biting to an appropriate toy but don't always wait for the nipping to start. Also now is a perfect time to work on communication (this will help your training later) meaning your "good" and "bad" markers. I use "Yes!" Or "No!" but you can use anything you want as long as it remains consistent. She nips you "No!" Redirect to the toy "yes!" The toy isn't the reward, playing with you is the reward.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Joys said:


> Mine did the STAR Puppy class for 6 weeks. She’s freaky smart and enjoys formal training.
> 
> She was a total land shark. I can’t even give you advice about that because nothing worked. I ended up spraying myself down in apple cider vinegar and that slowed down the biting a little.
> 
> ...


I look forward to hearing your opinion after you've had more time with your dog and she's had a chance to mature a bit LOL! I'm raising my first puppy, but I've had adult GSDs, and there's no other dog that compares in sooo many ways.


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## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

thegooseman90 said:


> Whoever it was that said your pup needs food play and sleep was spot on. No need to push training right now. If you have any decent sized room in your house bust out a flirt pole and get the pup moving and chasing. Somebody suggested redirecting is a reward and that's not really accurate. You should redirect the biting to an appropriate toy but don't always wait for the nipping to start. Also now is a perfect time to work on communication (this will help your training later) meaning your "good" and "bad" markers. I use "Yes!" Or "No!" but you can use anything you want as long as it remains consistent. She nips you "No!" Redirect to the toy "yes!" The toy isn't the reward, playing with you is the reward.


Regarding the use of yes and no, that's pretty much what I've been doing, but I feel conflicted when giving the toy after nipping since I feel like she's being rewarded for that behavior. She doesn't know "yes" or "no" yet. And feeling conflicted about that is what makes me want to have a dog behaviorist teach me, so I know that the methods I use are consistent with a dog's thought process. I guess choosing a method and persisting with patience will be my greatest virtue.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

She'll come to learn what they mean. No dog instinctively knows, it's a learned behavior. Right now she's way too young but once she's old enough you'll reinforce those "No!" markers with a correction. Right now you just take away something she wants or even give her a timeout. So basically you tell her no! and you take away her "toy" ie your hand or pant leg or whatever and give her an appropriate toy and mark it "yes!" and play. Even at 9 weeks I wouldn't be opposed to a pop on the snout with a light rolled up paper and an "eh" with it when she bites you. I didn't go that route with my pup because I want him to bite certain stuff and the redirect worked out fine for us with some reinforcement.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Redirecting to a toy in my experience wasn't rewarding it was teaching. I would not only give my pup the toy but make the toy come alive and play with my pup. Quickly they learn you can say get a toy and off they go getting a toy to play with you. I would always have some kibble and toy with you anytime you interact with your puppy for the next several months. Enjoy and adorable puppy.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It's not the word so much as the tone of voice.A NO in a firm tone will make her pause a couple of beats.That's her learning to obey you.The reprimand is over and done with.Go on to the next thing.Then you redirect and in a happy tone YES!Body language and tone of voice are very important.You're learning each other's language.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Breana' said:


> All right, y'all. Sorry to sound super repetitive, I know there are threads about the same dang thing, but I wanted to start my own.
> 
> We got Nyx the day she turned 7 weeks and tomorrow she'll turn 9 weeks. She is my first shepherd and large breed female dog in general. I have a 9 year male old border collie, as I've stated in other posts, who was honestly an awesome puppy. Potty trained quickly, learned multiple commands in the span of an afternoon, was all in all an absolute dreamboat little gentleman pup.
> 
> ...


Potty training and crate training go hand in hand. I have never had issues with potty training if I stick to the routine. 
If you do not have eyes on her she should be in her crate. Potty training basically boils down to never, ever give her the opportunity to screw up. It's up to you.
Biting is a simple matter of put something else in her mouth. Punish would imply she is doing something she knows is wrong, she doesn't. And don't yelp, trust me it will only make her go after you harder.
You won't fail her, not gonna happen.
And pictures would be nice.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

@Ballif, who is BTW a very seasoned veteran dog trainer, is constantly mentioning that your puppy needs to learn a language of agreement and disagreement. It's literally a first step in effective training and should begin on day one - I call it basic communication, but it's all the same thing.

As @thegoosman90 said, she's so young that you're still teaching her that language...so have patience. Be consistent and calm in your response, and she'll understand shortly what those terms mean. Timing of rewards is important, and that's where a good trainer can help you a LOT. But if you don't have or can't afford the help of a trainer, just remember dogs think in the immediate. When the puppy bites the toy mark that with a yes or good or whatever word you have chosen. The puppy has at that point already forgotten the no from the previous minute. Just be consistent and develop the communication of agreement and disagreement. 

That being said, the most effective way that I've found to minimize biting is to manage the environment! Don't give your puppy idle time to think about biting you, keep him actively engaged in biting stuff that is appropriate, then crate or contain him for a nap. Because you can't, with any redirection or training or subterfuge keep him from biting, it's what puppies do LOL. >


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## Joys (Nov 6, 2017)

I’ve heard redirection works for most dogs. It didn’t work with mine. If I tried to play with a toy, she would lock down on my hand. If I stuffed a toy in her mouth and left, she would hunt me down. 
I don’t miss those days!! Lol


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Joys said:


> I’ve heard redirection works for most dogs. It didn’t work with mine. If I tried to play with a toy, she would lock down on my hand. If I stuffed a toy in her mouth and left, she would hunt me down.
> I don’t miss those days!! Lol


During that period I kept extra paper towels in my pocket to sop up the blood lol! I kid you not!

Keep an open mind, GSD puppies NEED to bite a lot. They aren't being bad, they just need it. Best thing you can do is to manage their environment so their biting is targeted on appropriate stuff! It'll pass too quickly...make sure you take lots of pictures now...


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Joys said:


> I’ve heard redirection works for most dogs. It didn’t work with mine. If I tried to play with a toy, she would lock down on my hand. If I stuffed a toy in her mouth and left, she would hunt me down.
> I don’t miss those days!! Lol


These aren't the type of dogs you can just stuff a toy in their mouth and leave. You react and make it fun when she bites you so the the old toy stuffed and left isn't exciting at all. That's not at all how redirecting works. Did you even pair it with positive or negative markers at least?


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## Breana' (Nov 9, 2017)

Wow, thanks everyone! It makes me feel better knowing that I've tried or have been doing most of what's suggested. Ironically enough, I feel like yesterday was the best we've had together! I feel like I can tell she's starting to see me as her caretaker, leader, or "bond" to me if that's what the start of this is. It seems that she's trying to learn my language as much as I am hers. 

Anyway, in honor of Nyx turning 9 weeks today, here are some pictures!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Such a cute little terrorist LOL!


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## BradyC87 (Dec 20, 2017)

Breana' said:


> The below 0 weather slammed us in MI this past week and it was in the single digits when we brought her home. It's finally starting to warm up enough to play for a long time in the yard! She loves it, exploring and doing the whole nine.


We had the same thing in MN and it was tough for a couple weeks to get him enough exercise but is much easier now that it warmed up again for a bit.


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## Jpage24.87 (Jan 19, 2018)

Nyx is so cute, what's her birthday if you know it? I was wondering how your bite deterring is coming along? Have you found a trick that works better than another? 
I believe our pups are the same age, and Redirecting seems to help for my landshark, but like others have said, that toy has to come alive. It takes me about 45 minutes to an hour of constant motion to wear him down enough to want pets instead of using me for a chew toy, and then he naps for a bit.


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## Skerman72 (Feb 2, 2018)

We had the same problem with our GSD puppy Zeus when we brought him home. Our trainer thought us say ouch every time he bit us. When they are with their litter mates and play to rough the puppies will yelp. So we would say ouch firmly not yelling and it worked. He is 6 months old now and no biting. It will get better.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Joys said:


> I’ve heard redirection works for most dogs. It didn’t work with mine. If I tried to play with a toy, she would lock down on my hand. If I stuffed a toy in her mouth and left, she would hunt me down.


It's all about the movement - you're moving (fun, chase, bite!), and the toy you've stuffed in her mouth isn't. Guess which is more interesting to her? 

Rather than stuff a toy in her mouth, make the toy move around so she has to work to grab it and then tug with her a little. When mine were puppies and got so wound up that they were like an overtired toddler throwing a tantrum, I'd just put them away in the crate for a bit and they'd usually nap for awhile.


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

We were successfully able to redirect our one dog who had issue with this. She quickly learned that if she bit us we would quit playing so if we initiated play she would run away (sometimes confusing us) and come running back with a toy she would chomp on the whole time we played. She wasn't into chasing balls so it was tug of war or wrestling with her.


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