# Convincing the wife



## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

First post this time around, though I was on this forum 15 years ago and off and on until I stopped the last 5 years or so. Not a frequent poster. A little background about me, have owned five german shepherds. Two GSL females in the 90s. Then a Czech male obtained as very young adult, z ps lines. Then a GWL male pup from a nationals competitor. Lastly, a DDR female pup from old school breeder who was on WUSV. Trained with Ivan B., many others including many, many Germans coming over for seminars, in time period 20 to 15 years ago. Member in 3 sch clubs in 2 coasts, BH on the males, minor herding title on female, too work busy to get IPO titles on males but they trained in all 3 phases, watched WUSV in Europe one year and BSP in Germany another year for tourism. I have seen a number of good dogs. Not a breeder and no interest in breeding but I admire the excellent breeders and thank them for their work. My last 3 dogs lived on a fully fenced 20 acre property with a pond in the country where they enjoyed life. Now, I live in a smaller property but my yard backs into a thousand acre park for hiking. I am no longer interested in doing intense dog sports due to age and work, but all my GSDs were also home companions and family dogs and new one will do fun tracking and full Sch obedience routine in the yard except for the jumps just for fun. In short, I may be an ideal GSD dad.

The problem is I did all the above before I met and married my spouse. My wife is a dog person but not a working dog person. I think you all have a good idea of what that means. I know how to find the right puppy but I need help to convince the missus that we need to find the right GSD puppy. Any ideas?


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## az_girl (May 21, 2017)

I was a hesitant missus as well. I finally decided I'd be on board with getting a dog BUT DH and kids (teens) had to promise they'd be super committed to poop duty, training the dog, middle of the night potty calls, etc, etc. In fact, I even said I wanted a golden retriever bc a GSD would be too much work for me. Well, husband desperately wanted a GSD and we got our puppy 2 days ago and I am loving her to pieces. I think I spend more time with her than anyone else. LOL. Frankly, you have a great past working with GSD's and if you committed to her that you would do ALL the work (getting up in the middle of the night during the puppy phase, proper training and exercise), I think that is the best thing you could do (and worked for me). You sound like an ideal GSD dad, hopefully your wife will see your commitment and agree!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Tell your wife that she will have much time to herself if you enjoy your GSD vs not getting one which will give you plenty of time to "help" her with her chores. What is her favorite breed? Maybe she should get her own dog. Ideally male - female combo.
To the wife: please support your hubby in getting the dog of his dreams. A working GSD is not intimidating at all. They basically are active dogs with stable temperament and a good off button but require a lot of time for training, work, exercise and play (all the same to the dog) and it will keep him happy and busy and off your back.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

How not to do it: 
Pay deposit on puppy. Say nothing. Pay for puppy. Tell significant other day before that we are getting a puppy. 

Whoever said it's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission is a darn liar. 

Just lay it all out. What you want, why, and plans.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

You could tell her, ....all you want for Christmas is....


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Have her chat with the rest of us missus her on the forums! I had a GSD before I met my hubby and loved him to pieces. Then when my dogs passed away ( a ridgie mix that was my heart dog and a little beagle / whippet mix ) It was time for us to get our first GSD puppy together. I got into the research as much as he did. No regrets!

ooh, and practice those puppy dog eyes, and get good at giving back massages.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

Do you know someone with a really well behaved, sweet GSD that the wife could meet? I think most GSDs can kind of sell themselves naturally by being themselves. 
It's hard NOT to get charmed by this intelligent, sweet and beautiful breed.
My husband had to be convinced initially that a German Shepherd was a good dog for me to adopt, especially one that was 18 months old with zero manners. He met him and with my promise to take him immediately to training, Hans became one of the family. He tends to like medium size dogs-like Border Collies, etc., but Hans won him over with his fun, goofy personality.
Good luck!


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

[My wife is a dog person but not a working dog person. I think you all have a good idea of what that means. I know how to find the right puppy but I need help to convince the missus that we need to find the right GSD puppy. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

You sound like you would provide the perfect home for a GSD. It might be helpful if we knew specifically why your wife objects. Is she intimidated by large dogs? Does she have toy dogs whose safety she is worried about? 

My husband was not a dog-person when we married. He wasn't necessarily fearful of dogs, but he was not comfortable around them either. The only dog I had at the time was a papillon, but I missed my GSD. I shared lots of pictures and memories with him, which, perhaps made him realize how important having a GSD was to me. Because my husband could be intimidated by large dogs, I always showed him photos of my dog being gentle--playing with kittens and my 8-year-old niece, ect. Eventually, he resigned himself to the idea. When puppy-hunting, I tried to shield him from photos of GSDs hanging off the handler's sleeve or other IPO images. One time he saw one on a website, and he said, "You don't want to do *that* do you?" haha. Anyway, he came around. He still won't call himself a dog-person, but he says he is a GSD-person. 

Perhaps, you could assure your wife that you would do all the training, work, chores, exercise, and duties related to the dog. You sound very experienced, so you obviously know all that is entailed. If your wife is intimidated by large working dogs, perhaps, you could take her somewhere to meet some friendly, approachable GSDs. Share with her how much having a GSD means to you, how much you miss your former dogs, and how much a new puppy would enrich your lives. Listen to her concerns, try to meet her half-way if possible. If she is worried about current smaller dogs, have a plan to ensure their safety, possibly a crate and rotate plan, as a last resort. 

I hope you work something out. Keep us updated!


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Tell her big fuzzy German Shepherd working dogs will keep her warm on cold days! :rofl:


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Have you tried wine? Lots of it?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

as someone said above, what is the reason she gives for hesitating? Is she worried that a working dog will be a problem in the house as far as energy? That they may not be good with kids? Knowing the source of her hesitation can help formulate arguments in your favor.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

just curious - did you have a breeder or litter in mind?

just checking to make sure that they are balanced and do have an off switch -

so that what you are proposing to bring into the house matches your description


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## RuthArt (Oct 25, 2017)

the amount of training will be taking away from the wife, could be she doesn't want to share you?


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## LuvmySlyguy (Aug 28, 2017)

As a wife and soon to be mom I can say that I feel safer with our gsd. They are a great deterrent when I go on my daily walks as well as at home. Ours are friendly with people they know and if we say it okay then they are with strangers, mine is a little standoffish but I'm ok with him not acting like my Border Collie who loves everyone.
I would try and explain that even if yours ends up being super friendly if someone comes to your door and hears a big dog bark or sees your gsd they probably won't plan you harm not knowing your dog.
Also when my husband is at work or class I'm not so lonely with all three of my buddies here.
My hubby has had gsd for all his life and almost everyone in his family has one or two of them or had some. I've trained and been around many dogs as well as owned dogs all my life. Sly is my first gsd but I promise I will never not have one! They have really made me fall in love with them!!!
We have two gsd, and our bc. It does take work and patience I've learned and still learning but they are worth it a bazillion times over! Best wishes to you


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> How not to do it:
> Pay deposit on puppy. Say nothing. Pay for puppy. Tell significant other day before that we are getting a puppy.
> 
> Whoever said it's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission is a darn liar.
> ...


Aw c'mon! Nobody can be that dumb!

:lurking:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you have had a bunch of GSDs of various lines, just explain to your wife that you want a specific type of GSD, and that there is so much bad breeding out there, to get what you want, you are going to... 

I'd just put my cards on the table. I want to buy a puppy, but not just any puppy. I've had GSDs in the past, and I am looking for a specific kind of GSD. If she is a dog person, then her answer should be something to the tune of, "You feed it, you train it, you clean up the poop. And you know, it will still like me better. "


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Have you tried wine? Lots of it?


Wine or whine or both?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Aw c'mon! Nobody can be that dumb!
> 
> :lurking:


No.....I swear I never did that to my gf.....>


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

Kind of have to wonder what wifey's dog experiences have been like before now. I have tortured my husband with a DDR pup, and he had never had dogs before we met, and is a crazy cat man. I brought two grown big dogs to the relationship that he had not bonded with. But guess who is totally smitten with the pup? 

My sales tactic involved the fact that my remaining dog is old, and I wanted to grow my next protector. Hubby and the pup are inseparable. I may need to bring home another to be my very own.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Hellish said:


> Kind of have to wonder what wifey's dog experiences have been like before now. I have tortured my husband with a DDR pup, and he had never had dogs before we met, and is a crazy cat man. I brought two grown big dogs to the relationship that he had not bonded with. But guess who is totally smitten with the pup?
> 
> My sales tactic involved the fact that my remaining dog is old, and I wanted to grow my next protector. Hubby and the pup are inseparable. I may need to bring home another to be my very own.


Such a valid argument. He took yours, you need your own


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

that was my excuse to get our 2nd pup.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cloudpump said:


> How not to do it:
> Pay deposit on puppy. Say nothing. Pay for puppy. Tell significant other day before that we are getting a puppy.


Or do that. Lose your deposit when the wife lays down the law and the next person in line gets the puppy. Cuz my husband didn't say no.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

carmspack said:


> just curious - did you have a breeder or litter in mind?
> 
> just checking to make sure that they are balanced and do have an off switch -
> 
> so that what you are proposing to bring into the house matches your description


Just typed up my wish list here:

female
YES
working line - mainly DDR
I like to see lines that go way back to von der krone, burg fasanental, busecker schloss, bungalow, lierberg, marko c., mutz p., working line kirschental (blanka m.), ritterberg, haus himpel, rudingen, gleisdiereck, tino felshenshloss although dog in front is more important than lines if not used for breeding
medium drive
balanced
moderate to high prey
moderate to low defense, high threshold
parents have good, deep nose (proxy for high intelligence)
parents have calm grips, sure outs (proxy for nerve strength)
confident
social puppy, aloof then social as adult
genetic obedience
sensitive to voice
affectionate
not dog or person dominant
tending toward one person dog but ok with family
the usual health checks
dark sable, black sable, black
long coat ok
ok for not for breeding, limited reg ok

NO
fearful
shy to people
thunder fearful
sharp, low threshold
dog aggressive


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

this is one of my favorite females on video right now





taped at 2years so you can see genetics before "too much" training; i love her calm, deep bite and sure outs which I think is a good sign of nerve strength; love the confidence and expression; beautiful conformation and sable; athletic; perfect size; you can see her in prey outdoors and defense indoors but stays calm and in control; good relationship w/handler; I love how she looks at the helper's eyes around the sleeve after the out indoors which shows you this dog is not a pure prey dog when a dog takes their eyes off the sleeve to look at the helper's face; I have seen a lot of outstanding females from the Ingo-Robby-Verwin-Orry-werry-Tom L. lines and this female is linebred on Tom L. - Vito


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Shepdad said:


> The problem is I did all the above before I met and married my spouse. My wife is a dog person but not a working dog person. I think you all have a good idea of what that means. I know how to find the right puppy but I need help to convince the missus that we need to find the right GSD puppy. Any ideas?


I think it really depends on why she's hesitant. Is it the size? The intensity ("too much dog")? Specifically fears GSDs? Wants the dog to serve an entirely different function (e.g., toy dog that doesn't need the same level of training and will cuddle up, or big goofy friendly dog)? The needs of the breed relative to others and relative to her ability to provide for them?

Addressing her specific concerns might help you make some headway. That being said, she may never agree. A coworker eventually convinced my husband for me. The coworker flatly told him, "If you are going to continue with this travel schedule, then you need to let your wife get that German Shepherd she wants." My FIL likes dogs and my MIL always shot it down with a flat no, no discussion. Hopefully your wife is more toward my husband's end of the continuum. What if she says "no, not just no, not ever"?


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> Wine or whine or both?


Both plus dine. Hasn't worked yet. I may have to be perfect for awhile.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Shepdad said:


> Just typed up my wish list here:
> 
> female
> YES
> ...


Wow, that is quite the list and possible making your wife happy as it makes it very hard for any dog to fill that expectation. Hope you realize that when getting a pup, you get the blueprint and potential; the rest you have to work on.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

You only want full ddr?


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Wow, that is quite the list and possible making your wife happy as it makes it very hard for any dog to fill that expectation. Hope you realize that when getting a pup, you get the blueprint and potential; the rest you have to work on.


I've owned such dogs except with higher drive. Forgot to add in the list, both parents V in WL conformation. If the genetics are good, you know most of the faults are your mistakes as an owner and handler, and I've made my share. And more to discover I'm sure.


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## Levi T (Oct 10, 2017)

lol this is like the complete opposite of my story, wife wanted a gsd, I didnt want a dog at the time, and now I have a new best friend!


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Shepdad said:


> I've owned such dogs except with higher drive. Forgot to add in the list, both parents V in WL conformation. If the genetics are good, you know most of the faults are your mistakes as an owner and handler, and I've made my share. And more to discover I'm sure.


Nice list. Stack the deck in your favor. 
Would a green dog be more favorable for her?

Have you tried jewelry? Or whatever she likes. Knew a girl that liked guns. My gf jusy became my fiance. So......imagine the possibilites there.....
Promise of something in the future? 

All kidding aside, have you shown her what you used to do with your dogs? Maybe your passion will be the tipping point.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

cloudpump said:


> How not to do it:
> Pay deposit on puppy. Say nothing. Pay for puppy. Tell significant other day before that we are getting a puppy.
> 
> Whoever said it's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission is a darn liar.
> ...


Hate to say it but this is pretty much the best option. Jump on the back of the bull and hold on as long as you can even when the bull is really really pissed off.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

konathegsd said:


> You only want full ddr?


Not necessarily. It's more the type than the percentages. They're more old school in many ways. And gorgeous of course.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Baillif said:


> Hate to say it but this is pretty much the best option. Jump on the back of the bull and hold on as long as you can even when the bull is really really pissed off.


LOL. My wife knows me well. She already knew the possibility so she already checked my move before I had the chance. I may have to try a different gambit.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> The problem is I did all the above before I met and married my spouse. My wife is a dog person but not a working dog person. I think you all have a good idea of what that means. I know how to find the right puppy but I need help to convince the missus that we need to find the right GSD puppy. Any ideas?


Its been 20years since we got a dog my wife wanted. So for us, I take on all the responsibility of training and everything and she just gets to do what she feels like with our 2. Have you taken her anywhere to see Shepherds?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I do what I'm going to do regardless. The move wouldn't be so sneaky in my case. I'd let the SO know ahead of time what was going to happen. It wouldn't be asking permission it would be a heads up about what was going to be.

I'm not an unreasonable guy. If I was going to be doing something impulsive that I was on the fence about logically I could be talked out of it, but when I'm already sold on it I don't ask permission. 

This kind of thing doesn't really affect her all that much though. I do the vast majority of dog care and almost all of the training.

What you don't want to do is pull an "executive decision" like this and then when puppy needs a let out at 3am ask her to do it because you're tired. That's how you wake up dead.

Her of my 3 favorite is actually Crank, who is a super high drive malinois. I worked really hard on him early to be a pet in the house. He isn't annoying and will veg out on the couch and watch tv and sleeps in the bed at night.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Shepdad said:


> LOL. My wife knows me well. She already knew the possibility so she already checked my move before I had the chance. I may have to try a different gambit.


So in some way she is prepared???? I will actually name my new pup 'Gambit'. Let's see who is the first with a a pup


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Baillif said:


> That's how you wake up dead.


 That right there is funny.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> Its been 20years since we got a dog my wife wanted. So for us, I take on all the responsibility of training and everything and she just gets to do what she feels like with our 2. Have you taken her anywhere to see Shepherds?


I think bringing her to the local IPO club might have the opposite of the desired response. A dog show would be worse. She did meet my old ones before they passed away but even as seniors they were too much dog for her. I already do all the feeding and poop scooping of her dog, she does the cuddling and hiking. I might just have to wait before her personal dog who is old passes away then a cuddly 8 wk old GSD pup in an empty house might do the trick.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

One of the things that helped my wife, the dams of all the litters we got puppies from have been really, really social and great with kids. Seeing that impressed her quite a bit.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> One of the things that helped my wife, the dams of all the litters we got puppies from have been really, really social and great with kids. Seeing that impressed her quite a bit.


Good point. Thanks.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Maybe visit the local IPO club, even without your wife to make some connections with people. Find out who has those types of dogs. If a litter comes along, maybe now you know someone well enough to spend an hour meeting puppies and petting mom?


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> Maybe visit the local IPO club, even without your wife to make some connections with people. Find out who has those types of dogs. If a litter comes along, maybe now you know someone well enough to spend an hour meeting puppies and petting mom?


We haven't lived here that long so I was actually thinking of visiting the local clubs just to get my GSD fix. I just enjoy watching the awesomeness of good shepherds.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Good breeders would welcome a list such as yours - there are a number of personality characteristics that a breeder can determine if a puppy will fit.

I was not shy to ask for a dog that would kick-posterior on the training field (and boost my ego, LOL), but be sociable enough to bring to work, be good around my cats, not be too barky, be easy-going enough to get along with my dominating older dog, but confident enough and assertive enough to not allow her to bully and dominate him too much (Oh, and sable was a plus). 

I got what I ordered EXACTLY (should have thrown in some house-keeping skills too, now that I think about it).


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't see it, but you said your wife was sort of a dog person? What kind of dog would SHE like? get one for her one for you


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> Good breeders would welcome a list such as yours - there are a number of personality characteristics that a breeder can determine if a puppy will fit.
> 
> I was not shy to ask for a dog that would kick-posterior on the training field (and boost my ego, LOL), but be sociable enough to bring to work, be good around my cats, not be too barky, be easy-going enough to get along with my dominating older dog, but confident enough and assertive enough to not allow her to bully and dominate him too much (Oh, and sable was a plus).
> 
> I got what I ordered EXACTLY (should have thrown in some house-keeping skills too, now that I think about it).


Ha ha. I just need a dog to make coffee for me, I have Roomba for the house keeping, at least cleaning.

Yes, there are plenty of good GSD breeders if people are willing to do some research and driving and with some patience to wait for the right litter, right puppy individual.
One of the great things about the breed is really the whole system that the Germans, bless them for some of their cultural characteristics like obsession with organization, set up. Mind you Germany is also the home of other great breeds like Rotties, Dobies, Boxers, Schnauzers, G. Danes, etc but there is nothing like the SV and its systems, and its counterparts in other GSD countries. And the global GSD community is larger, more extensive, more organized and much more of a community than any other breed in the world. Even though we criticize the system and the community for it's faults and rightly so, there is simply nothing like it in the dog world. Which means there are more opportunities to get good dogs. Somewhere the right puppy is or will be available for the right owners.

It's just a shame that the first time you see many people on the GSD forum is after they get their first puppy instead of absorbing knowledge several weeks or months beforehand. 

The GSD as a breed has a long check list, longer than any other breed. But because of the community of practice there is also a lot of expertise in matching dogs to checklists. Much of that expertise is in expert breeders and also knowledgeable end users.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I don't see it, but you said your wife was sort of a dog person? What kind of dog would SHE like? get one for her one for you


She has mostly had medium size dogs and is partial to mixes. Not designer mixes but the mutts she grew up with. She grew up in a large property in the country where people used to dump their unwanted dogs in the 70s and they would just show up at their door. She still has her dog who is getting old. So I am plotting to end up with two GSDs when the time comes. LOL


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Maybe an 8 wk old sable puppy whose ears are still down and tell her it's a 16 wk old that's some kind of mutt.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I still say to get her on this thread. We'd love to chat with her. You can trust us


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Baillif said:


> I do what I'm going to do regardless. The move wouldn't be so sneaky in my case. I'd let the SO know ahead of time what was going to happen. It wouldn't be asking permission it would be a heads up about what was going to be.
> 
> I'm not an unreasonable guy. If I was going to be doing something impulsive that I was on the fence about logically I could be talked out of it, but when I'm already sold on it I don't ask permission.
> 
> ...


I agree, there are some things that are just going to be. When people decide to have a relationship you need to take into account and accept their interests as part of the package. Providing finances and living situation allows it this shouldn't be an issue.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Shepdad said:


> It's just a shame that the first time you see many people on the GSD forum is after they get their first puppy instead of absorbing knowledge several weeks or months beforehand.
> 
> .


I think most people do what they consider research, they read up as much as they can, watch videos, talk to breeders, other owners. Then the actual dog doesn't exactly fit into what has been described and if its their first experience with things, they just aren't sure what they have. Some things experience shows you aren't a big deal, they have to go through to know that. Same with the things that are a big deal. Youtube can't cover it.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> (should have thrown in some house-keeping skills too, now that I think about it).


For you Castlemaid 



Does anyone know the mother in the video? A lot of the credit goes to her of course. Must be a super dog trainer and knows about GSDs too. Feeds raw. Might even be on this forum. Be curious to know the lines of the doggie.


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## lmc 1 (Nov 10, 2017)

I would like to add that GSDs are velcro dogs and usually are attached to the one that is home the most. Every GSD that I have owned was rarely more than a few feet away from me at all times lol! Also if the dog is in a crate or another room while your wife and kids are moving about the house the puppy may very well wine and bark all day long to get attention. It would drive anyone crazy, especially someone that is not on board in the first place and who is taking care of a 4 month old baby and a 4 year old. 

My GSD that I adopted, he was an adult dog, wore us out when he was not in our sight. He wined, peed, pooped, barked, tore things up, anything to be near us. This breed needs to be with their people. I will mention this dog came to us with anxiety issues and we worked on him with the best trainer - it took time but is possible. Your puppy will need a lot of training to get through all those behavior issues that pop up.

You won't consider going the breed rescue route where they can find a dog that is already grown and their personality and behavior is known? Our best dog was an adult GSD where the owners were forced to get rid of him. Still training and obedience is necessary but less work than puppies. And you can request them to match you with a dog that matches your household.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

lmc 1 said:


> I would like to add that GSDs are velcro dogs and usually are attached to the one that is home the most. Every GSD that I have owned was rarely more than a few feet away from me at all times lol! Also if the dog is in a crate or another room while your wife and kids are moving about the house the puppy may very well wine and bark all day long to get attention. It would drive anyone crazy, especially someone that is not on board in the first place and who is taking care of a 4 month old baby and a 4 year old.
> 
> My GSD that I adopted, he was an adult dog, wore us out when he was not in our sight. He wined, peed, pooped, barked, tore things up, anything to be near us. This breed needs to be with their people. I will mention this dog came to us with anxiety issues and we worked on him with the best trainer - it took time but is possible. Your puppy will need a lot of training to get through all those behavior issues that pop up.
> 
> ...


With a list as specific as what OP has, he's way better off going through a good breeder. I didn't consider the rescue route at all because I was pretty set on a lot of nonnegotiables. My dog, like Castlemaid's, could have been made to order. I do volunteer with a breed rescue, and I think that's a great route for a lot of people, but as soon as someone starts getting _that _specific, then I think their best bet is to research the heck out of breeders and find one whose lines show consistent temperament traits that are a good match for what they want.


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## try2Subok (Nov 18, 2017)

Same boat with you Shepdad...Wish it was easy...


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