# Seriously?!



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

So my boyfriend and I took Sinister to our towns annual car show/carnival today. He was very well behaved, like always, he met some small kids, a GSD puppy and some dog lovers. He walks through a crowd of people without an issue and doesn't even attempt to eat food on the ground. He ignores other dogs when he walks by and minds his own business. Everything was going great, we were enjoying ourselves. Then I noticed a very large black dog, possibly a Newfie mix, the dog seems interested in Sinister and I see that his owner is not only not paying attention to his dog but he is barely holding it's leash. I tell my boyfriend to stay on my left to block the dog's vision and we move over so that there is distance between us and the dog. Well we keep walking and Sin doesn't even look at the dog and the next thing you know the dog yanks the owner over to us and charges Sinister. The guy didn't say a word and had no physical control over the dog. Sin stayed right next to me and gave his "back off now bark" and we continued to walk away while the other dog proceeded to bark and pull his owner. We left shortly after that in a much angrier mood. 

On another note, I can't believe how many adults walk up to a dog and start touching it or as they are walking by they stretch out to run their finger along a dogs face without asking if they can pet it. I also had 2 different babies touch my dog as they walked by and the parents let them do it. It blows my mind how people act around strange dogs. Luckily my dog loves people of all shapes and sizes.


----------



## ragu (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah it amazes me what some people do. And of course if your dog was to bite one of these complete strangers you'd be the one having to do some explaining. Lately I've told a few people not to pet my dog when we're walking at the park. They might think I'm rude but I can care less. And shame on the person that had no control over that dog. Glad your boy kept his cool.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

For the first part of your post, why be mad, your going to run into less than stellar dog owners occasionally, you and sinister did great. For the second part, I think if you take your dog to an event like this your gonna have people assume its fine to pet/touch your dog, again be proud, you both did fantastic.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ya know what, you shouldn't be at a carnival atmosphere if your dog isn't bomb proof. If the dog was going to bite a strange human for petting it, it simply should not be there. 

There are plenty of places to socialize a less than stellar dog, that you don't have to resort to taking them to a carnival -- that is a disaster begging to happen. 

So I glad that Sin is awesome and belonged there and the Newf's owner probably shouldn't have had his dog there, but what can you do? You can only change your own behavior. But as for the people, a crowd like that, you should expect people to bump into your dog and kids to run up and pet, or even hug your dog. If he cannot take that, don't bring him.


----------



## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

selzer said:


> But as for the people, a crowd like that, you should expect people to bump into your dog and kids to run up and pet, or even hug your dog. If he cannot take that, don't bring him.


I very much agree with this, and I'm thinking the OP knows this as well, but I think it's more shock that people are so careless with their own safety (and that of their children) than anything else. Yes, the only dogs that should be at places like that are dogs that aren't going to bite BUT the reality is is that there are many people who take dogs that aren't bomb proof to public areas so it's dangerous to pet a strange dog or to let a child pet a strange dog without asking. I always think this when I take Sasha places. She's a sweetheart, and would never bite anyone who was non-threating, but others don't know that and I've had people do some crazy things. I was at PetCo with Sasha one day and Sasha was in a sit while we were in line and I looked away for about 15 seconds to look at some keychains and what not that were on display. I turned my attention back to Sasha and this lady was kneeling down kissing/loving on Sasha. I was floored. Sasha was, naturally, loving it, but I just couldn't believe some stranger felt like that would be the most prudent thing to do. 

As to the dog pulling their owner over, that kind of thing is annoying. Sasha, much like it sounds like Sinister does, handles those things well, but it's annoying to have to deal with it. I understand big dogs are harder to control than little dogs, but a well trained dog isn't hard to control at any size and in my opinion dogs that aren't trained shouldn't be in high traffic areas. It just creates issues for all involved that shouldn't be there.


----------



## AngVi (Dec 22, 2012)

It totally amazes me too that people will just reach over an pet their head or face etc.
Especially if the pup doesn't see it coming. My two are 13 month old girl, and 8 month boy.
Both are very friendly an of course "adorable"
I've actually politely said no- we're training - but people STILL walk over and touch!
One of the worst places is Petco for that...for some reason people think its a playground for puppies. Ill take them in and walk around only for the distractions - not to play 




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog did well. nice training. don't be surprised that adults
and children will touch your dog without asking. it's nice knowing
you have a dog that can be touched without notice. when my dog
was a pup i asked strangers to pet him and touch him all over, step
over him, approach him from the rear, etc.


----------



## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

I know what you are talking about. Several years ago we took our 80 lb, blue merle Aussie boy to my son's soccer game. He is quite striking and people are always commenting on how beautiful he is, but still beautiful does not correlate to friendly. Anyway, he was tethered to me and laying down behind my seat. I turned around to look at him and 3 toddlers were sitting next to him petting and prodding him - parents were nowhere in site. No one asked me if it was okay. Luckily for me and the toddlers that is the day that I realized that Buzz absolutely adores toddlers. He was in heaven with those kids but I still can't believe any parent did that.

Your dog did great. And I agree with the others that you are going to have to expect people to approach your dog if you take him to a crowded public place. I am not saying it is the right thing for them to do but it is going to happen.


----------



## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

When I grew up in the 60's and 70's, people did not take their dogs everywhere. I don't ever remember seeing dogs at festivals or public events, but times have changed. That said,in my opinion it is very irresponsible to take a dog into public venues if the dog can't handle anything that might come his way. Your dog did great, and obviously can deal with new environments, too bad the Newfie owner was clueless. I would like anyone to ask before they pet Tess, but I never have a fear that she would be aggressive to anyone.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think having adults and children touching a dog should
be included as a part of training and socializing.



AngVi said:


> It totally amazes me too that people will just reach over an pet their head or face etc.
> Especially if the pup doesn't see it coming. My two are 13 month old girl, and 8 month boy.
> Both are very friendly an of course "adorable"
> 
> ...


----------



## LuccaVonCyclone (Apr 17, 2013)

Some people have NO common sense. Sound like your dog Sin behaved beautifully though!!

Just this last week I took Lucca (5mo) to a street festival. He pays next to no attention to strangers and isn't bothered by being pet at all. Anyways, I had him sitting down so a toddler and his grandpa could pet him. Lucca was sitting there calmly as the little kiddo gently patted him on the back, when a very well-dressed lady rushed up from behind me and before I could so much as utter a word or move she grabbed Luc's cheeks and shoved his lips up with her thumbs and said "SMILE!". And then she was gone. I was completely utterly dumbfounded!!! Lucca took it in stride and didn't really seem to care, didn't flinch, didn't try to mouth her, didn't get agitated in any way that I could tell, other than looking a bit confused. It totally floored me though, how anyone could be stupid enough to come up to a strange dog, a GSD no less, and just grab the dog's mouth like that? If she has stuck around for more than half a second I would have given her a pretty memorable chewing out. Ugh.


----------



## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> i think having adults and children touching a dog should
> be included as a part of training and socializing.


You are correct, but the owner should be able to control the touching for training purposes. Finn had the nasty habit of not so much jumping up on people, but he'd put his paws gently on the persons' chest or abdomen and slowly stand up to lick faces. He'd do this on adults only and for kids, he'd lay or sit down and accept every form of affection they'd give him.

I needed to control the adult "touch" to properly train Finn on how to properly accept the "touch", but I couldn't do that if I had some ninja human swoop down and start poking and prodding him like an overzealous doctor and when he jumped and I'm giving him the "off" command, they are ruffling his face and holding him closer saying, "Oh! It's fine!"

So, there's nothing wrong with limiting or banning "touch", especially when it's in a training scenario.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think the problem is that some of those "petters" aren't nice about it. You have the toddler who likes to poke dogs in the eyes. Or stick fingers in their ears. Or as happened to me once, run across the park and flying tackle jump onto your dogs back.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This afternoon I let my six year old nieces manage the leash and take Babs to the park. One walked her there, and the other walked her back. I was right there, and I took the leash in the park. 

There was a large GSD mix that was acting like he wanted to get to Babs, and Babs would have been happy to clean his clock though he was a LOT bigger. But she was good and stayed by mid side. 

As we were walkng out, a little girl was explaining to a boy how the motarized skateboard/scooter worked. We kept on going, but when I heard it behind me, I stepped off the paved area and up against the baseball fence. Well the scooter went by on the pavement about 3' from me, and in between the scooter and me, the little girl ran past. 

She was so close to us I could have tripped her without moving hardly at all. The wrong dog would have clipped her. I was proud of Babs, she didn't have any problem with it. It freaked me out and I lectured my nieces as to why that was really dangerous.


----------



## Walperstyle (Nov 20, 2012)

Our GSD loves to go meet other dogs. Sometimes barks at first, but generally wants to go and say hello. The sucky thing that we are trying to correct is how when someone stops and looks at him, he gets offended and barks at them. He generally only likes our family, and other people are seen as something to be cautious of. 

The E collar helps. Whenever we see him get in a set of mind where nothing else matters, we give him a beep... and if he barks or goes for another person, we shock. So far he hasn't had to be shocked, but the beep reminds him he needs to listen to us.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Exactly.

Though most people do ask, even then they can get pushy about it.

When I was training my dogs to sit politely while being petted I told the people if you want to pet you must have some time and pet them on my cue. 

Actually ran into some teenagers in the park who were nice kids and they didn't get resentful at following my one simple request, stop petting if Smitty lifts his behind off the ground. They could only pet him when he held his sit. They were great!

Worked out really good that day. 

On a few rare occasions I've had people try to sabotage my training too. There are some people who have this weird innate desire to prove that they are dog magnets and all dogs love them. If they encounter a dog that doesn't melt at their very touch/voice it challenges their sense of self worth I think. Some people get really upset if a dog doesn't get all lovey and mushy with them at a drop of a hat. 

Ilda is aloof to strangers and thus has been labeled as 'mean' (even though she doesn't growl or bark at them) because she won't break a sit or down to get petted by a stranger walking by who calls to her or tries to entice her to come to them. 

When I hang around the more 'serious' dog training people you'll notice they don't usually get all mushy over other people's dogs. We talk training, we compliment good training in a dog but the handlers pretty much leave each other's dogs alone. 



Shaolin said:


> You are correct, but the owner should be able to control the touching for training purposes. Finn had the nasty habit of not so much jumping up on people, but he'd put his paws gently on the persons' chest or abdomen and slowly stand up to lick faces. He'd do this on adults only and for kids, he'd lay or sit down and accept every form of affection they'd give him.
> 
> I needed to control the adult "touch" to properly train Finn on how to properly accept the "touch", but I couldn't do that if I had some ninja human swoop down and start poking and prodding him like an overzealous doctor and when he jumped and I'm giving him the "off" command, they are ruffling his face and holding him closer saying, "Oh! It's fine!"
> 
> So, there's nothing wrong with limiting or banning "touch", especially when it's in a training scenario.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Very good job, Sinister!!!! I would have expected no less!!!


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I understand that people will touch my dog without asking and I would never bring a reactive dog to such a busy place with children all over but it still amazes me that so many people don't think before they act. I would never let my baby get close to a strange dog let alone allow my baby to reach out and touch it.


----------



## nikitadoggies (Jun 24, 2013)

While it is always flattering that people want to pet my babies, I hope that they always ask first. I'm too possessive / protective of my fur babies and prefer to allow people to pet them when I say it's okay.

It's kind of like people thinking that they can just touch your belly when you're pregnant --- whether you want them to or not. It's just bad manners to not ask first.


----------



## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

Some people don't have control over their dogs, and they don't think. It's good that your boy behaves himself when other dogs act that way.

I am two fold with the touching.

If you have a child or adult come running from across the way to your dog to pet them, I can understand the frustration and the need to maybe say something to them. If you are trying to stay away from people, at a distance, then it should stand to reason that you may not be ok with people touching your dog.

If you are, however, walking your dog in a crowd where people just have to extend their hand out some without any actual effort, or if a baby in a stroller can throw their hand to the side and its close enough to touch the dog, then I don't think there is a right to complain. Not if you are going to have your dog that _close_ to people. It stands to reason that the dog and owner is OK with this happening.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

We have a first fridays every month in the spring/summer around here. Almost every time I take a dog down people try to pet them without asking. As far as kids go my dogs are intimidating to look at so parents clinch there kids when i have the big ones out.


----------



## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Being a GSD owner puts people a leg up on most other dog owners. GSDs teach us as much or more than we teach them. Large powerful dogs that react without fear and react quickly do not allow for poor handling. So we see dumb human behavior for what it is when referencing dogs. Call it sensitive or the like I suppose, empathetic for the dog possibly. Banjo was bomb-proof, on lead he was invisible essentially in terms of needing instruction. He was 100% sure that I was in control and he was cool as a cucumber. When someone touched without asking I didn't get wound up, I'd just say "it's okay, but in the future you should always ask the handler if it's alright to touch a dog". No need to get riled up, because we all know that a GSD is reading us on a level that appears almost mystic. 

In general I avoided big crowds and noisy places, dogs have such refined and superior senses (smell, hearing) that carnivals/fairs/festivals etc...) just seemed like it would overload them. I took Banjo to a local corn maze often, rural setting and lots of open space with a decent amount of people. I particularly liked the bonfire with the big circle of chairs/benches around it. I asked those assembled if it was okay to let him off lead to sniff around and say hello. Country folk are pretty laid back about things like that and Banjo got to explore and meet lots of people. The nights usually ended with Banjo surrounded by a pack of kids, all of which wanted to get him to "talk". He grumbled and moaned while he snuggled. Funny how some dogs just KNOW that (little)kids are pure sweetness and allow them to do whatever they want.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

What you say is true, in our culture it seems that we have accepted that our dogs are not off limits to anyone who feels the urge to reach out and touch/pet them and one must be aware of that.

The flip side to the coin is because people feel they have a right to touch every dog, without any fear or reprisal from dog or owner, we can't take out dogs to many public places because that human behavior also increases the chances of a dog nipping or biting.

We were just talking about that in training today, how in Europe you can go so many more places with your dogs and my trainer commented 'and you don't have to worry about people walking up and touching your dog'. 

That's true as well. I think this a dog must be 100% approachable by strangers anywhere and anytime is more unique to the U.S. mindset.

I think, if I could have my choice, I'd rather we switch the cultural meme on this and that people were not entitled and did not feel entitled to touch everyone else's dog so that we could all have more freedom with our dogs out in public.





GSDolch said:


> Some people don't have control over their dogs, and they don't think. It's good that your boy behaves himself when other dogs act that way.
> 
> I am two fold with the touching.
> 
> ...


----------



## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Although it pretty much never happens, I kind of find it a compliment when people just come up to my dog and pet him. They are assuming I'm not stupid enough to bring an aggressive dog to a public place without a muzzle on. I actually find it annoying when I tell people they can pet him and they are like "He won't bite me?". No, actually he's super aggressive and I get a kick out of getting sued and then having to put my dog to sleep after he bites you, duh. They are practically calling me an idiot.


----------



## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

It depends how you look at it and the reason why people SHOULD be more careful and not so ignorant to believe every dog will be bombproof.

1: Who is to make the assumption that the dog in bombproof and suitable to be in public places? Can't depend on an owner.. their bias. Trainers can be frauds or just plain ignorant (or have different opinions). And laws? I don't want the government up in my dog's life anymore than they already are. So you can't assume anything. Fido is out in public... should that owner make sure he's safe for the public first... Well, sure. Will they all? No. Do they all understand what bombproof is? Nope. So to me it's JUST as ignorant and as guilty to NOT ask or teach your children to ask to pet. No matter where, what, or when... this *should* be common knowledge. I would blame both parties.

2: "Bombproof", when you have it, it's amazing. However, these are animals. NO animal is 100% bombproof 24/7. No matter how awesome you think your dog is, or how many titles it has.... or how great he is with the kiddies... there's no such thing as a 100% safe animal. The horse people on here will sure understand this. My first "bombproof" horse nailed me with her hoof right in my knee one night. My fault completely.... I accidently spooked her while blanketing. By her nature, she kicked me. Did I consider her dangerous after that? Nope. Did I let children still around her? Absolutely. So if a child comes up from the rear really fast and snags a HUGE chunk of skin and fur while the dog is sleeping or relaxing... and the dog jumps up with a yelp and a small snap or bark (Not an attack... just a quick snap in the air from being startled).... is this dog dangerous? Considered not bombproof or unsuitable for being out in public? IMO, not at all. The dog acted out in it's nature. I've seen these types of things happen. Kids can be rough. Heck, even some adults are completely ignorant to how to pet, act, and stand around a dog. Basically... any dog, bombproof or not, can/will bite. It has teeth and a strong jaw.... it'll bite. Those parents who just let their kids run right up to a strange dog and hug it... or poke at it.. pull it's fur..... They expect WAY too much from a dog and it's nature. They are also very ignorant. For this reason, it's as much on the other guests responsibility as it is the dog owners.

What it comes down to is: Respect. People should really show more respect to dogs and their owners. There should also be just as much respect from the dog owner to the other people around. It goes both ways. People shouldn't run up to strange dogs and poke and prod at them..... dog owners shouldn't let their dogs jump and harass the public... or bring a dangerous dog out in a heavily populated area. It should also go for dog owner to dog owner. Like the OP situation. The one with the newfie was clearly disrespecting both the public around him and the other dog owners. 

Have you ever heard an owner or you yourself say..... He's never done THAT before? (I have!) They're animals... it's always a possibility that they will break the "norm" you've set for them.

To the OP: It sounds like your dog did awesome! Great job to the both of you! Also, I completely understand your frustration.... it's something I have no hope in seeing any change happen here. Every time I'm out in public, I get the same thing happen to me. I try to politely tell them to ask first, but without fail I'll have at least 1 not listen. Luckily, my dogs are all friendly and nothing's ever happened. When a kid runs up and their parents don't do or say anything to stop them... I make sure I do my part to kindly explain to them the importance of asking first and how some doggies don't want to be pet, or have certain areas that may hurt to pet. If the parents want to be ignorant... I'm not going to fight with them (you can't/won't win those arguments)... but, at least I can give their kids some safety skills that they may try to follow.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Today I had Bear with me in PetsMart while the puppies were getting their first bath and brush. A couple of small kids came up to her. I do not think they actually asked, but they approached slowly and gave me plenty of time to interfere. These were little kids, the boy about 2 I think and the girl 3 or 4. The boy tells the the girl, "you need to let her sniff first," and then offered his baby hand to Bear's nose. The girl offered her hand, and I sat Bear. And then both the boy and the girl petted her. 

Maybe it wasn't perfect. But it was certainly ok on the kid's behavior part. I thanked them for letting them help socialize Bear. (Bear was 3 in March, so not a puppy.) 

Anyhow, as we were walking away, Bear seemed to have a little spring in her step that said, "I petted baby humans today!"


----------

