# Photos of 48hr test on Rawhide Swelling?



## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

After a recent post about rawhides, I got to wondering just how bad do these things really swell up? 


The photos are of the scrap piece of Rawhide Bone that I soaked for 48 hours.
_(I know that some of you have other reasons that they're not pro rawhides...)_


Before:










After:


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Kinda hard to see without some reference point for sizing. Looks like it didn't really swell much, did it?


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I agree ... can you put a ruler there or something? I'm not an advocate for rawhides ... so if we want to show WHY not to use them ... we need "scientific" evidence (lol)


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

You're right and I thought of that later that I should have put down a coin or something.
It swelled about 2/10s maybe more than it was? Really minimal. Personally my biggest concern is choking.

Also some will argue that I was not able to duplicate the stomach acids and temps? But for what it is... I think the photos still show there is little change.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I don't know that it's the swelling that is the issue, but the size of the pieces that can be torn off and swallowed: ASPCA | Position Statement on Dog Chews/Treats this is odd, but states that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

It isn't so much the swelling, it is the blockages that rawhide can cause. It doesn't digest easily so may stay in the gut or digestive tract causing blockages. Though small bits aren't going to do that...it is if the dog ingests a large amount all at once. 
The other risk about rawhide is how it is 'processed' if chemicals are used, that isn't something I'd want my dogs to eat.


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> It isn't so much the swelling, it is the blockages that rawhide can cause. It doesn't digest easily so may stay in the gut or digestive tract causing blockages. Though small bits aren't going to do that...it is if the dog ingests a large amount all at once.
> The other risk about rawhide is how it is 'processed' if chemicals are used, that isn't something I'd want my dogs to eat.


Agree 
But I could only address the one concern of swelling that was brought up.
As far as digestion goes I'm not happy that Maggie can eat an entire bone in one sitting so we've started monitoring and controlling that. I would guess an entire Soup bone sitting in there stomach would not be the best thing for them either.

Chemicals I wouldn't know what to tell you other than anything and everything make in China should not be brought into the house with pets, children or seniors living in it?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Of course nothing is safe but more info on rawhides: The Dangers of Rawhide Dog Chew Toys | The Bark


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I think it's a great test, BTW. I see written on these boards concern for swelling just as much as chocking/blockage. Awesome of you to test it out!


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Of course nothing is safe but more info on rawhides: The Dangers of Rawhide Dog Chew Toys | The Bark


True nothing is safe

Rawhide Dog Chews: Myths & Facts
"So many facts and so-called facts regarding rawhide are debated, that clients don’t know what to think. We thought it would be helpful to clear some of these up for you.

*Is rawhide safe?*
A major US medical school once conducted a laboratory test to answer this question. The results showed that in groups of test dogs, even in those fed rawhide three times a day, there were no ill effects.
Dogs will swallow pieces of rawhide, and these will pass easily through the digestive tract. Although choking or intestinal obstruction with rawhide is very rare, it could potentially occur and common-sense prevention measures should be taken...."

*WebMD*
*http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/rawhide-good-or-bad-for-your-dog*
*3. Are there risks associated with rawhide dog treats? *
Given the amount of rawhide consumed by dogs each year, the risks are relatively small. Still, risks can be serious, so don’t ignore them. Weigh the risks and benefits of giving rawhides based upon your dog's chewing needs and behaviors.

These are the most common rawhide risks:

*Contamination.* As with pet toys, rawhide chews can contain trace amounts of toxic chemicals. And, as with other pet (or human) foods, Salmonella or E. coli contamination is possible. Even humans can be at risk when coming into contact with these bacteria on rawhide treats.
*Digestive irritation.* Some dogs are simply sensitive or allergic to rawhide or other substances used in their manufacture. This can cause problems, including diarrhea.
*Choking or blockages.* Rawhide bones and other edible chews can pose a choking and blockage risk. In fact, this is a much bigger risk than contamination or digestive irritation. If your dog swallows large pieces of rawhide, the rawhide can get stuck in the esophagus or other parts of the digestive tract. Depending on its size and where it is located, a vet may be able to remove these pieces fairly easily through the throat. But sometimes, abdominal surgery is needed to remove them from the stomach or intestines. If it isn’t resolved, a blockage can lead to death.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I use to give rawhide way back when(80's!) and it never swelled when it got wet, it would get slimy and nasty, but wouldn't swell. Clover use to bury it and then dig it up to chew, as she liked it aged. 
I quit giving it to her when my senior Stomper died, and I thought maybe the rawhide caused him to bloat. At that time, I was giving the dogs flip chews often to occupy them.


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## SukiGirl (Aug 31, 2012)

All I know is that we stopped giving rawhides when our dog started puking up pieces of undigested hide DAYS AFTER INGESTING IT. Yea, that was enough of that.


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

wildo said:


> I think it's a great test, BTW. I see written on these boards concern for swelling just as much as chocking/blockage. Awesome of you to test it out!


Thank you Willie that's nice of you to say.
I'm the guy in the office who always checks the "OMG Emails" against mythbusters. haha...


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

The risks are just as great at the open end causing choking...

This is a story of a dog who died the next day

Ask the Veterinarian: Sudden Death in 1 Year Old Golden Retriever, pseudomonas infection, megaesophagus

The Vet said it could have been something there from the day before considering he hadn't eaten anything that morning. It could have been lodged and then dislodged when he moved and was greeting my Parents at 6:00 AM......

.....So what happened to Willie, to put it in layman's terms, was that the *chunk of rawhide had become lodged under his epiglottis*, which is the flap that covers the trachea when we eat so we don't get food in our lungs, and then it *became lodged over his trachea which then suffocated him*. 

Such a tragic accident for such a young and great dog. I really appreciate the follow up and I will not let Willie's death be in vain. I will spread the word around and we will call it Willie's Rule. *"Always stay with your dog while they are chewing on rawhides and then take them away* and put them up if you leave. That way they can't get one stuck like that when no one is around."


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I don't know that it's the swelling that is the issue, but the size of the pieces that can be torn off and swallowed: ASPCA | Position Statement on Dog Chews/Treats this is odd, but states that.


I still do not feed them any more, but was advised by my vet that they are "perfectly safe" as long as they are gnawing at it, and as long as huge chunks do not come off and are eaten. When the dog gets to the end of a trachea or bully he just swallows a 3 inch piece - then pukes it up (he doesn't learn and continues to do so)

I know that the swelling is not a big thing, I have seen one left in the rain for days, and the dog found it, ate it, and he was fine.

Does any one have an opinion on pressed rawhide?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I stopped letting the Hooligans have any type of rawhide products because of choking. More than once I had to pull out a slimy piece of rawhide from someone's throat who was choking, the final straw came when I could bearly get the piece out it was so far down his throat I had to pinch a tiny tip, the only part I could touch, with my finger tips. And the chopped type rawhide products made several of them sick. Rawhide products aren't worth it in my opinion.


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

Choking is my biggest concern actually my only concern really?

It's really to eaches own really and I do appreciate everyones two cents on the topic.

All my life I've fed my dogs those big beef bones until the vet told us that one of them splintered and tore through the esophagus of our 120lb Great Pyrenees killing him. Fluke? Probably. After all it was only one out of maybe 7-8 dogs in my life before him... All the same, I wouldn't give a animal bone or antler to a dog ever again.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> It doesn't digest easily


Yes, this, and the size of the pieces. They can be a real choking hazard. 
Now, thousands of people give the stuff to their dogs, obviously, or it wouldn't be sold in stores like it is.
But once you've had a rawhide issue, you tend to avoid it for life.

When I was much younger, 19 or so, I gave my Springer a rawhide "chip" (2"x2" square) and she was chewing away. Well, once things get to a smaller size, dogs like to gulp them down, as you know.
She must have done that once it softened a bit on the edges, because she just swallowed and I noticed her start gagging and choking. 
I got her over to me and slapped her on the back and it came up on the carpet.
I threw it out, and the rest and never gave her another.

I don't use them because of that, and I will always remember the terrified look on her face when she started choking


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Yes, this, and the size of the pieces. They can be a real choking hazard.
> Now, thousands of people give the stuff to their dogs, obviously, or it wouldn't be sold in stores like it is.
> But once you've had a rawhide issue, you tend to avoid it for life.
> 
> ...


Very well put... "But once you've had a rawhide issue, you tend to avoid it for life." Same with Bones, Pig Ears etc....


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That's true


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the test is a nice idea , but not a good test . You have rehydrated the rawhide , but WATER is not the environment of the gut . What happens when you have digestive enzymes working away , partial breakdown , and strong hydrochloric acid , trying to breakdown, and the motion of the stomach churning and moving material into the intestine. How much of the digestive juices are absorbed by this rawhide chew . Digestion involves more than one organ. The pancreas kicks in working over time, the liver works overtime trying to detox . All this while the chunk of rawhide is being worked over by high acids , creating a goopy chyme , which if things were all right would be squirted into a tiny opening into the intestine for absorption . But it can't do so because it just sits there . The dog may start drinking more water . Now you have even more problems. The dog can go into a toxic state, can't pass stool, but the bowel can leak into the bloodstream . That is if you don't have a crisis with gastric torsion.
I have seen the damage well meaning rawhide treats can inflict .

Everytime I am in a "pet shop" and see those treats , and now to add to it , rawhide in Christmas colours , with carcinogenic red dye , not to mention the long list of possible preservatives . There is nothing natural about rawhide. The last time it was natural was when it was on the animal . If you want to give hide , go to an ethnic butcher - get a pig hide or cow hide which is used to make gelatin .
"Producing rawhide begins with the splitting of an animal hide, usually from cattle. The top grain is generally tanned and made into leather products, while the inner portion, in its “raw” state, goes to the dogs. Removing the hair from hides often involves a highly toxic recipe: sodium sulphide liming. A standard practice is to procure rawhide in the “split lime state” as by-products from tanneries, facilities that top the list of U.S. Superfund sites. In the post-tannery stage, hides are washed and whitened using a solution of hydrogen peroxide. And that’s just one step.
Other poisonous residues that may show up in rawhide include arsenic and formaldehyde. Even dog skin is a possibility. An ongoing investigation of the fur trade by Humane Society International, an arm of the HSUS, resulted in this information, as listed on their website: “In a particularly grisly twist, the skins of brutally slaughtered dogs in Thailand are mixed with other bits of skin to produce rawhide chew toys for pet dogs. Manufacturers told investigators that these chew toys are regularly exported to and sold in U.S. stores.”
*Back to the Factory (Farm)*
There’s no knowing where it’s been, and where it begins is also unsettling. Rawhide is a by-product of the CAFO—or concentrated animal feeding operation, the bucolic term for today’s industrial farm.
“Nasty, brutish and short” is how Ken Midkiff, author of _The Meat You Eat_, describes the life of the animals who give up their hides. He’s no expert on rawhide, but Midkiff says he knows far more than he cares to about CAFOs, where thousands of “sentient beings,” crammed together inside huge metal buildings, “never see the light of day until the truck comes to pick them up for slaughter.”
“There’s also a major problem with various drugs,” he adds, citing a CAFO cocktail of antibiotics, arsenicals and hormones used to boost production.“While the claim is made that these don’t remain in the meat of hogs or beef, that claim has not been tested by any federal agency.”
Pattie Boden, owner of The Animal Connection in Charlottesville, Va., where organic toy enthusiasts shop, doesn’t carry rawhide. Instead, she stocks free-range chews, bully sticks, and organic raw bones, from shins to lamb necks. Her purchasing-protocol (and philosophy) is one owners might apply in their own search for healthful treats.
“I’m not going to be the most financially successful pet store,” Boden says, “but I feel confident in the products I select, and I can sleep at night.”

Excerpt taken from Bark magazine.


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

The test was just a test.
And I wasn't attempting to cover other scenarios such as carcinogenic dyes which is why I stated *(I know that some of you have other reasons that they're not pro rawhides...)*

In short the test was *do Rawhides swell after 48 hours in water*. While it made for amusing reading, I don't subscribe to all the hokum of juices, enzymes, hydrochloric acids and motion of the stomach either being the contributing factor that swells cow hide?

What I really find amusing is there are some people out there with very strong opinions on what they're dog will be allowed to eat yet they themselves will eat out in restaurants and even worst they will eat at McDonald's! Haha...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks "Ezekiel" "*And I will execute great vengeance on them with furious rebukes.."
*

fury also swells !

a better version of the experiment would have been to weigh the rawhide , measure the liquid, before, then weigh the rawhide after , then measure the remaining liquid, if any , after . 
By the way I do not eat at McDonalds or fast food restuarants. I do have this to say about McDonalds , that you KNOW what you are getting , they take great pains to inform you. The decision after that is yours.
I happen to enjoy finer things , adventures into foreign ethnic food , and cook everything from scratch -- minus the occassionally cheatery thing like boxed soup stock -


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## Maggies Dad (Aug 15, 2012)

carmspack said:


> thanks "Ezekiel" "*And I will execute great vengeance on them with furious rebukes.."*
> 
> 
> fury also swells !
> ...


haha... Thanks for the imput
How cool is that I think I'll change my name to Ezekiel!!

And let me clear up one thing. I do NOT approve feeding your dog anything that you the owner is not ok with. (very political of me huh)


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't think that test is equivalent with the digestive process of a dog.
Water is not equivalent to the acids and enzymes in the dog's gut, and I would think it turns into a voluminous slimy substance.
I know many people feed them with no problem, but they scare me.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Maggie was sitting on my lap eating a piece of rawhide when she started choking. The piece was gummed up and stuck on her back tooth, with the remainer of the piece stuck in that back of her thoat. 

BTW, it is very difficult to removed a gummed up piece of rawhide wedged in the back of a small dog's mouth while said dog is in full panic mode. 

We don't have any rawhide now.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

absolutely " don't think that test is equivalent with the digestive process of a dog.
Water is not equivalent to the acids and enzymes in the dog's gut, and I would think it turns into a voluminous slimy substance."

a better test would have been to put the piece of rawhide into a container with Coca Cola since the pH is closer to the caustic stomach acids. 

maybe I'll do it - means I have to go buy a piece of rawhide and Coke, neither of which are ever on my grocery list.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I stopped giving rawhide after I had to pull a piece out of my Golden's throat that she was gagging on....and it gets so slimy/gummy when they've been chewing on it that it wasn't easy to get a grip on it... I was lucky that my Golden was always very tolerant of anyone sticking their hands in her mouth because I had to reach all the way to the back of her mouth/throat.
She was always good about only swallowing small pieces, but I think what happened is it got sticky and when she was chewing, it got stuck in her mouth and so she tried to swallow the larger piece.



Maggies Dad said:


> haha... Thanks for the imput
> How cool is that I think I'll change my name to Ezekiel!!


I know a dog named Ezekiel (Zeke for short).  He's a GSP though not a GSD.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Today I was at a house and the dog there had a big rawhide along with bullysticks, antlers and tons of toys, yes he is over indulged!
He chose the rawhide to chew and I was keeping an eagle eye on him. A 2-3" chunk came off and attached to his back molar. I had to dig it out, after reading this thread today, I was taking no chances! I put the rawhide up and gave him a frozen(peanutbutter/tuna) kong. Odd how he chose that rawhide over all other treats that were available. Here is a pic of Henry(he's only 7 months) can you guess what breed he is?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Part Wookie?


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## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

I dont give them to Tazor, after 20 yrs as a vet tech I have seen too many incidents.. not worth the risk. We also wouldnt allow them withboarders, many people were really mad that we wouldnt let their dogs have them, but..better safe than sorry.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Thank you for doing the test, even though it didn't come out right at least you tried, I was curious myself what happens with rawhide and even though your test came out wrong I learned thats not a way to do it and I would make a mistake doing that myself. So there you go, you helped.. Thank you


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

is the dog a baby briard ?

anyway I am going to buy a small piece of rawhide , a large Coke , take pictures before and after and share them with you . I will place piece of rawhide into the Coke container and then submerse container into bucket of warm water to warm the Coke - the ideal would be 101 , the dog's body temperature.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

yes Carmen, a Briard!
I look forward to your experiment.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

never an incident with rawhide, but with all the other options antler and other chew toys, why risk it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the experiment has begun.

I bought a standard 2 litre Coke classic . A package of 5 rawhide twists - deposited on into the Coke. Sealed lid , agitated a bit , released gas . I did this in case the breakdown of the rawhide created gasses and I wake up to a POP and sticky coke all over the kitchen.

hope I downloaded this alright . https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=05ab8e7eee14da0e&id=5AB8E7EEE14DA0E%21127&Bsrc=SkyMail&Bpub=SDX.SkyDrive

at the end the container of Coke will be cut open , sieved to remove any slimy particles from breakdown . Then the experimental rawhide will be placed beside a fresh-out-of-package piece for comparison.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Just saw that the pictures are out of sequence . 2nd should be first , 2nd is 3 , 3 is the fourth -- LOOK at the foam just putting this rawhide into the Coke produces !! , then the 1st and last show you the rawhide in the container.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Can't view pics...in skydrive and need password to my own I believe, don't understand these virtual sites...I think I signed up for or not cannot remember, but certainly have no idea of my password, or if I need my password to access your pics


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

now? https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=05ab8e7eee14da0e&id=5AB8E7EEE14DA0E%21127&Bsrc=SkyMail&Bpub=SDX.SkyDrive


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Negative


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