# Fish Oil or Pills??



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Can dogs take fish pills? Someone told me that wouldn't be beneficial to them and the oil on the food is what should be used. They said its better to work from the outside in and not vice versa. Is that true? Can pills work? How is it determined how much to give if it can be given?


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

Yes dogs can take fish oil pills. I use them for my shepherd when we are out of vitamin e

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

I give halo 1 pill 3x a day when she's not taking vitamin e. 
I can semi understand where whoever told you that was coming from. I give halo vitamin e oil I out it in every bowl of food and water. Sometimes it works faster. But there's nothing wrong with pilling either.

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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Can dogs take fish pills? Someone told me that wouldn't be beneficial to them and the oil on the food is what should be used. They said its better to work from the outside in and not vice versa. Is that true? Can pills work? How is it determined how much to give if it can be given?


I use the fish oil capsules and just use a tack to poke a hole in it to squirt on the food, then throw the rest of the capsule in the bowl.


If you give fish oil, make sure to give vitamin E. I give 400 iu daily with fish oil. I've heard of giving as much as 800 iu, I assume depending on the amount of fish oil you give? But vitamin E is not water soluble so can build up in their system if given to much. So I stick with the 400 iu and 2000 mg of fish oil for Jax.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> I use the fish oil capsules and just use a tack to poke a hole in it to squirt on the food, then throw the rest of the capsule in the bowl.
> 
> 
> If you give fish oil, make sure to give vitamin E. I give 400 iu daily with fish oil. I've heard of giving as much as 800 iu, I assume depending on the amount of fish oil you give? But vitamin E is not water soluble so can build up in their system if given to much. So I stick with the 400 iu and 2000 mg of fish oil for Jax.


Exactly fish oil only goes so far. Vitamin e is made for skin nails and hair. Never thought of putting a whole in the capsule tho. Good idea

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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

halo2013 said:


> Exactly fish oil only goes so far. Vitamin e is made for skin nails and hair. Never thought of putting a whole in the capsule tho. Good idea
> 
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No Vitamin E is given because if you don't it will cause a vitamin e deficiency. Their bodies, and ours, use vitamin e to process the omega 3's. If you supplement one without the other, you cause problems. It has nothing to do with skin, nails and hair.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i buy salmon oil from vitalchoice.com. i buy the human grade.
i take a swig then i pour some over my dog's food.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Woolf and Shadow get fish oil capsules 2000 mg and vit e 400 iu daily. The fish oil is split between the 2 meals. 

The Princess (Shadow) gets a hole poked in hers and squirted on the food. Woolf gets it whole. The goofball treats it like dessert. Leaves it for last, chomps down on it and gets the oil, then walks around for a few minutes chewing the capsule like gum, finally swallowing it.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

am i missing something here? are you saying if you don't
give your dog vitamin E the dog will become vitamin E
deficient?



Jax08 said:


> No Vitamin E is given because if you don't it will cause a vitamin e deficiency.
> 
> Their bodies, and ours, use vitamin e to process the omega 3's. If you supplement one without the other, you cause problems. It has nothing to do with skin, nails and hair.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> am i missing something here? are you saying if you don't
> give your dog vitamin E the dog will become vitamin E
> deficient?


From all the reports, articles and research I've read, you are running a chance of it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Fish oil depletes the dogs vitamin e so when you give fish oil it is recommended to give E every few days(or in whole food form, organ meat and eggs contain E) 
E is stored not flushed out of the body, so I don't give it daily.
DogAware.com: Supplements for Dogs
I put 2 1000mg fish oil caps in my dogs raw meal daily, they eat them right up.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Twyla said:


> Woolf and Shadow get fish oil capsules 2000 mg and vit e 400 iu daily. The fish oil is split between the 2 meals.
> 
> The Princess (Shadow) gets a hole poked in hers and squirted on the food. Woolf gets it whole. The goofball treats it like dessert. Leaves it for last, chomps down on it and gets the oil, then walks around for a few minutes chewing the capsule like gum, finally swallowing it.


This might sound stupid but what is the iu mean for the dosing of the vitamin e? Are both pill form? I'm seeing that it looks like a quarter of vitamin e is given of the fish oil? Does that sound right? So I can just buy both in pill form? All of my dogs are 55 pounds and up, is there a dose that is good for all of them that is the same? Do both have to be given daily or can I give fish oil one day, vitamin e the next? I don't want any issues for them.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So there is vitamin e oil that can be put into the water? I don't think that would work in my house because they all drink the same water and one has the potential of having more then the other.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

just toss the capsule in his food! No need to put it in water. I buy this vitamin E
Twinlab Super Vitamin E Complex 400 400 IU 100 Sgels - Swanson Health Products


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never heard that before. i thought dog food was balanced
with the proper amount of vitamins.



doggiedad said:


> am i missing something here? are you saying if you don't give your dog vitamin E the dog will become vitamin E
> deficient?





Jax08 said:


> From all the reports, articles and research I've read, you are running a chance of it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

dog food is balanced...yes.

But if you are adding extra supplements then you have to make sure that is balanced as well.

If you add fish oil, you should supplement with vitamin e.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Molly and I both take the oil, no capsules every morning. Molly seems to love the taste. 
Product Details


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

llombardo said:


> So there is vitamin e oil that can be put into the water? I don't think that would work in my house because they all drink the same water and one has the potential of having more then the other.


Yea that's not a problem. Vitamin e giant harmful in any way. I learned from an er Dr i work with treating food and water is a quick way to have an animal respond to a vitamin. Because obviously they eat and drink. Some dogs are absolutely against being pilled. And will find pills put in food. But vitamin oil they don't even know they are getting. And its not large doses. 
If one dog needs it more then the other simply put it in their food and feed them separately. 

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> No Vitamin E is given because if you don't it will cause a vitamin e deficiency. Their bodies, and ours, use vitamin e to process the omega 3's. If you supplement one without the other, you cause problems. It has nothing to do with skin, nails and hair.


I'm simply saying what vitamin e supports. 

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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I also feed my dogs human-grade fish oil capsules -- often the ones from Costco!

For vitamin E, try get natural (non-synthetic) vitamin E with mixed tocopherols, if possible. I can't find that at the big box stores or chain drug stores. It's an item I either have to order (Vitacost.com or Drugstore.com) or get at Whole Foods. Again, I buy a human-grade supplement. The common synthetic Vitamin E isn't as well absorbed.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

vitamin E and Omega 3 are not the same at all, nor are they interchangeable .
Vitamin E sold in capsule is hardly worth the while with little vitamin acitivity . At best most of it is only alpha tocopherol , whereas complete E has 8 compounds , or at worst unnatural L series sourced from petrochemicals. http://gpsdairy.com/ServiceDocs/Nat_vs_Syn_Vit_E_4-09%20LOWRES.pdf

Vitamin E can be found in Eggs, spirulina , barley grass (a good source ! - including alpha tocopherol succinate ) , sunflower seeds, almond, red palm oil, rice bran oil ..... also fish flesh , salmon , but here there may be concern with heavy metal and toxins which attach to a protein but do not attach to the OIL portion . 

Vitamin E used as a preservative in kibble is not natural -- and being sensitive to air and heat , won't have much benefit .


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

who said vitamin E and Omega 3 were the same and interchangeable?


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

doggiedad said:


> i buy salmon oil from vitalchoice.com. i buy the human grade.
> i take a swig then i pour some over my dog's food.


How well does the salmon oil work? I've always wanted try it but never heard body else's opinion on how they felt about it..

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

halo , twice on page 1 "Yes dogs can take fish oil pills. I use them for my shepherd when we are out of vitamin e" sounds like one is substituting for the other when they are out of stock.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

carmspack said:


> halo , twice on page 1 "Yes dogs can take fish oil pills. I use them for my shepherd when we are out of vitamin e" sounds like one is substituting for the other when they are out of stock.


Missed that! That's what it sounds like to me too.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> who said vitamin E and Omega 3 were the same and interchangeable?


Not once did I say they were interchangeable. I just said I use one when I'm out of the other. Its based off what a DVM told me. 

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

And I got the information from the Dr on how it helps nails and skin from the same Dr. When halo was a baby her nails peeled a lot it was gross. Her fur had that nasty dry dead flake look to it I took her to work with me. The Dr said to get vitamin e oil and brush it on her nails like nail polish to help build strength in them fast. And after that put in her food. So yes not only does vitamin e support the immune system its awesome healthy skin hair and nails. I posted a story from dogchannel.com. someone else got the same advice
http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Herbs_Vitamins_for_Hair_Growth_in_Dogs
http://www.dogchannel.com/dog-infor...rittle-cracked-nails-painful-dog-problem.aspx
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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

breathe. nobody is arguing with you about the skin, hair and nails. 

What I posted above "arguing" was saying that is not the reason you take it with fish oil. It's important people know that if they feed fish oil, they need to feed vitamin E or else it could cause a deficiency.

And Carmen's point is...the way you phrased the above sentence, it could be construed that you are using them interchangeably. Anyone with a little reading comprehension could take that from that sentence.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

halo "I just said I use one when I'm out of the other"

you are repeating the mistake . 

let me ask you , not when, but why do you give fish oil .


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

carmspack said:


> halo "I just said I use one when I'm out of the other"
> 
> you are repeating the mistake .
> 
> let me ask you , not when, but why do you give fish oil .


It was Dr. Recommended halo on her first vet visit with me showed a lot of inflammation around some joints. The Dr suggested fish oil. Because she's sensitive to some of the pills they tried. 

I always thought fish oil helped with skin.and what too. But it didn't seem to affect that nasty look her skin and coat and nails had. That's when he suggested trying the vit. E

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> breathe. nobody is arguing with you about the skin, hair and nails.
> 
> What I posted above "arguing" was saying that is not the reason you take it with fish oil. It's important people know that if they feed fish oil, they need to feed vitamin E or else it could cause a deficiency.
> 
> And Carmen's point is...the way you phrased the above sentence, it could be construed that you are using them interchangeably. Anyone with a little reading comprehension could take that from that sentence.


I understand that
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

What about the Wild Salmon oil made for dogs? Does that need to bad supplemented with vitamin e too?


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

llombardo said:


> What about the Wild Salmon oil made for dogs? Does that need to bad supplemented with vitamin e too?


Never used it. 

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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

The omega 3 6 9 I use has vit E 5IU/soft gel in it. Is that enough? I know it really seemed to improve Clippers coat and skin and Hooch has a nice coat too!


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

readaboutdogs said:


> The omega 3 6 9 I use has vit E 5IU/soft gel in it. Is that enough? I know it really seemed to improve Clippers coat and skin and Hooch has a nice coat too!


If it works for your pets I don't see the problem. 


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

llombardo said:


> What about the Wild Salmon oil made for dogs? Does that need to bad supplemented with vitamin e too?


If you read further back I did ask a user about salmon oil. Because I'm looking for something new to switch halo to that hopefully she won't be sensitive to. It worries me about constantly giving her vitamin e. But she's either sensitive to one. Or they just don't help. I wouldn't switch before asking her Dr. But i did ask because I do want to switch. 

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

coconut oil is a good alternative. Vitamin E isn't effective alone. What are you feeding? Diet plays into itchy skin dry skin and coat, and having humidity in the environment helps both humans and animals. But too much can be a problem too...balance is key


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Halo what's your take on bacon grease? Or veg. Oil! Added to food. Bill


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> coconut oil is a good alternative. Vitamin E isn't effective alone. What are you feeding? Diet plays into itchy skin dry skin and coat, and having humidity in the environment helps both humans and animals. But too much can be a problem too...balance is key


When I first got her, her owner fed some dollar store brand. When got her seeing how poor her skin and coat was I friend.prescription diet she threw that up. I tried blue buffalo that gave her mad diarrhea. I just switched to Royal can in gsd she seems to be doing well with it. 

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

bill said:


> Halo what's your take on bacon grease? Or veg. Oil! Added to food. Bill


I've used veg. Oil. Never tried bacon grease. I'm not against giving her veg
Oil. Its hard to pinpoint what to give her since her tummy is so sensitive.

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I give my dog one Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega a day. I take two.
The pills do contain Vitamin E alpha form as a preservative.
I really have been pleased with the Nature's Logic which contains no synthetic vitamins.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> I give my dog one Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega a day. I take two.
> The pills do contain Vitamin E alpha form as a preservative.
> I really have been pleased with the Nature's Logic which contains no synthetic vitamins.


Does that come in an oil as well??

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

halo2013 said:


> Does that come in an oil as well??
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Yes, it is NOT cheap though. I use the capsules and cut one open and taste when I get a new bottle / store in fridge.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> Yes, it is NOT cheap though. I use the capsules and cut one open and taste when I get a new bottle / store in fridge.


Halos got that gag reflex. And she finds pills hidden in food. So I try to keep pilling her to a minimum..hence why I use oil vitamins. So money Idc halo has her own "spending" account so I always have emergency, medication, etc money for her.

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

If Halo is that sensitive you may want to add digestive enzymes to her diet .


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

See with the Royal canin gsd Shes been neutral. So I'm happy with her food choice now. She digests it well. But that's a breed specific food. So its beneficial. 
But as far as wandering to far from what her Dr told me I'm not super brave. I just been writing down different ideas to.ask him about

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well........if its working for you, good..THAT overrides a lot of other considerations. "But that's a breed specific food. So its beneficial" -I don't know that they have any evidence that is so; seems like marketing hype to me. It has ingredients I would chose not to feed, personally.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> Well........if its working for you, good..THAT overrides a lot of other considerations. "But that's a breed specific food. So its beneficial" -I don't know that they have any evidence that is so; seems like marketing hype to me. It has ingredients I would chose not to feed, personally.


I asked her Dr. It has a lot of stuff to help gsd in areas. Sensitive skin, glucosamine easy digestive. Granted its not like "Dr prescribed levels" or whatever. But its helped her. She was born with hip dysplasia she has papers from her first Dr visit. I didn't even know dogs could be born with that. But she moves like she doesn't even know its an issue. And her skin cleared up. Not to a perfect level but a manageable one. So she just needed help with something else. I was very skeptical when I talked to a person at petsmart. I was fully prepared to return it. 

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Royal Canin -- would not even get past my front door , 
Ingredients: *Chicken by-product meal*, *brewers rice*, *wheat gluten*, *corn*, chicken fat, *brown rice*, *wheat*, *corn gluten meal*, natural flavors, *powdered cellulose*, *dried beet pulp*, fish oil, sodium silico aluminate, *vegetable oil*, potassium chloride, psyllium seed husk, fructooligosaccharides, sodium tripolyphosphate, calcium carbonate, salt, taurine, hydrolyzed yeast, vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, monosodium phosphate, glucosamine hydrochloride, monocalcium phosphate, l-lysine, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta l.), trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, copper proteinate), l-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid
Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 6.9%
*Red items* when present indicate controversial ingredients

go find out what chicken by-product means . Does it concern you that there is virtually no MEAT at all and that the majority of the ingredients (by volume and by ingredients) the company itself deems controversial ingredients.

this and the vitamin pre-mix


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

carmspack said:


> Royal Canin -- would not even get past my front door ,
> Ingredients: *Chicken by-product meal*, *brewers rice*, *wheat gluten*, *corn*, chicken fat, *brown rice*, *wheat*, *corn gluten meal*, natural flavors, *powdered cellulose*, *dried beet pulp*, fish oil, sodium silico aluminate, *vegetable oil*, potassium chloride, psyllium seed husk, fructooligosaccharides, sodium tripolyphosphate, calcium carbonate, salt, taurine, hydrolyzed yeast, vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), d-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, monosodium phosphate, glucosamine hydrochloride, monocalcium phosphate, l-lysine, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta l.), trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, copper proteinate), l-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid
> Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 6.9%
> *Red items* when present indicate controversial ingredients
> ...


This is what my dog gets
http://www.royalcanin.us/products/products/dog-products/breed-health-nutrition/german-shepherd-24

It may not be agree'd upon by some. But I've been thru so much dog food and I found one she finally can keep down. And I know what by product is. The word by product isn't in the ingredients. I looked long before it even made it to check out. 

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

halo2013 said:


> This is what my dog gets
> http://www.royalcanin.us/products/products/dog-products/breed-health-nutrition/german-shepherd-24
> 
> It may not be agree'd upon by some. But I've been thru so much dog food and I found one she finally can keep down. And I know what by product is. The word by product isn't in the ingredients. I looked long before it even made it to check out.
> ...


I also know if anything is a by product meal they have to put by product meal on the bag they can't put chicken meal. So when I read chicken meal. I wasn't concerned. Her Dr wasn't concerned. So I'm happy so far

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

halo2013 said:


> I also know if anything is a by product meal they have to put by product meal on the bag they can't put chicken meal. So when I read chicken meal. I wasn't concerned. Her Dr wasn't concerned. So I'm happy so far
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


It took me awhile of digging thru my phone history but I found the site I read the difference of stuff on.
http://www.examiner.com/article/chicken-chicken-by-products-chicken-meal-what-s-the-difference

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the ingredients came from their puppy formula Royal Canin Breed-Specific Puppy Food | Review and Rating


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

This is the GSD 24 formula. 

Home Royal Canin USA / Products / Products / Dog Products / BREED HEALTH NUTRITION? / German Shepherd 24? - Royal Canin

Chicken meal, brown rice, oat groats, chicken fat, barley, rice, natural chicken flavor, pork meal, soy protein isolate, sodium silico aluminate, wheat gluten, dried beet pulp, powdered cellulose, fish oil, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, calcium carbonate, dried egg product, sodium tripolyphosphate, DL-methionine, L-tyrosine, taurine, hydrolyzed yeast, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), tea, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> This is the GSD 24 formula.
> 
> Home Royal Canin USA / Products / Products / Dog Products / BREED HEALTH NUTRITION? / German Shepherd 24? - Royal Canin
> 
> Chicken meal, brown rice, oat groats, chicken fat, barley, rice, natural chicken flavor, pork meal, soy protein isolate, sodium silico aluminate, wheat gluten, dried beet pulp, powdered cellulose, fish oil, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, salt, calcium carbonate, dried egg product, sodium tripolyphosphate, DL-methionine, L-tyrosine, taurine, hydrolyzed yeast, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), tea, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.


I know what it is. Puppy breed didn't settle well with her. 24 did. Her vet said she's 17 months old age doesn't need puppy formula. She will be fine off of 24 

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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

halo2013 said:


> I know what it is. Puppy breed didn't settle well with her. 24 did. Her vet said she's 17 months old age doesn't need puppy formula. She will be fine off of 24
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


**** phone **7 month

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

halo2013 said:


> I know what it is. Puppy breed didn't settle well with her. 24 did. Her vet said she's 17 months old age doesn't need puppy formula. She will be fine off of 24
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I was just posting the correct information for Carmen


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks Jocoyn I saw it -- still would not get past my front store.
compare to Orijen adult dog " NO OTHER DOG FOOD CAN MATCH ORIJEN’S FRESH LOCAL INGREDIENTS.
*INGREDIENTS*
Boneless chicken*, chicken meal, chicken liver*, whole herring*, boneless turkey*, turkey meal, turkey liver*, whole eggs*, boneless walleye*, whole salmon*, chicken heart*, chicken cartilage*, herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-cured alfalfa, yams*, pea fiber, chickpeas, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

True but people need to feed what works for their dog. I really tried feeding Orijen on several occasions and wanted it to work but could not get past loose smelly stools, even after a month adjustment period. I know that food works splendidly for a lot of folks here. Others, not so much.

I think the best we can do is take criticism of our food as educational information and then make our own decisions based on a combination of knowledge about the ingredients, the company, and performance both in your own hands and long term for others. I think the dog food analysis site does a good job of pointing out controversial ingredients which can be googled by folks and researched on their own.

I have had some say they love the food I feed and others say their dogs could not tolerate it. I am always on the lookout - and, at some point, may go back to raw. Life just too crazy right now for that.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> True but people need to feed what works for their dog. I really tried feeding Orijen on several occasions and wanted it to work but could not get past loose smelly stools, even after a month adjustment period. I know that food works splendidly for a lot of folks here. Others, not so much.
> 
> I think the best we can do is take criticism of our food as educational information and then make our own decisions based on a combination of knowledge about the ingredients, the company, and performance both in your own hands and long term for others. I think the dog food analysis site does a good job of pointing out controversial ingredients which can be googled by folks and researched on their own.
> 
> I have had some say they love the food I feed and others say their dogs could not tolerate it. I am always on the lookout - and, at some point, may go back to raw. Life just too crazy right now for that.


I've heard horror stories about raw food. Made me not wanna try it. 

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have fed raw in the past. A lot of folks do here as well. To do it properly requires a good bit of planning, research, and some freezer space.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> I have fed raw in the past. A lot of folks do here as well. To do it properly requires a good bit of planning, research, and some freezer space.


The farthest I go with raw feeding is. Deer meat. I butcher process and treat my own stuff. But even that I'm skeptical of even the slightest thing that looks off I throw away

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What makes you so fearful of feeding raw halo2013? Dogs can handle bacteria and their digestive systems are much stronger than humans. 

How do you 'treat' your venison?

I've been feeding raw for several years and have never had any problems giving dogs food that is past sale date or on the verge of spoiled.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> What makes you so fearful of feeding raw halo2013? Dogs can handle bacteria and their digestive systems are much stronger than humans.
> 
> How do you 'treat' your venison?
> 
> I've been feeding raw for several years and have never had any problems giving dogs food that is past sale date or on the verge of spoiled.


Before I switched animal hospitals there were a small handful of cats n dogs we got that got parasites from raw food. 2 died. I've been paranoid ever since.

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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

@Halo, chicken doesn't agree with most of my dogs, have you tried a food without any kind of chicken in it?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

halo2013 said:


> Before I switched animal hospitals there were a small handful of cats n dogs we got that got parasites from raw food. 2 died. I've been paranoid ever since.


What type of parasite?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a small handful ?
I sure would be curious to know what those parasites were too.

what are the chances that those cats and dogs got their food from the same provider?


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> What type of parasite?


The two fatal ones were
Trichinella Parasites (Trichinella spiralis
Toxoplasmosis. Believe it or not they were two different cases the one family was an emergency they didn't even live in PA they were in vacation just passing thru
Every since then I just been a paranoid person about it. 
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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

carmspack said:


> a small handful ?
> I sure would be curious to know what those parasites were too.
> 
> what are the chances that those cats and dogs got their food from the same provider?


Idk of it was the same provider. I know one family was local and the other was from s. dakota

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

". During 1947 to 1951, a median of 393 cases was reported annually, including 57 trichinellosis-related deaths. During 1997-2001, the incidence decreased to a median of 12 cases annually, with no reported deaths." in humans , USA statistic -- 

many raw feeders give their dogs pork ribs and pork neck bones , snouts and ears --


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I always froze pork for a good month, same with deer....actually I froze all my raw meat when I did feed raw. While it does not get everything it does kill both of these parasites.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> I always froze pork for a good month, same with deer....actually I froze all my raw meat when I did feed raw. While it does not get everything it does kill both of these parasites.


Yea my deer meat, rabbit, and anything else that is known for parasites I soak in real real real heavy sea salt water

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I've never had an issue with parasites, and don't 'treat' anything other than freezing like Nancy posted. 
Not sure I'd want to feed anything that has been brined like that.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Honestly you probably could do a bleach rinse for surface pathogens. Icck, say what?
You know that is approved for the food you and I eat.


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## halo2013 (Jan 6, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> Honestly you probably could do a bleach rinse for surface pathogens. Icck, say what?
> You know that is approved for the food you and I eat.


Oh no I don't feed he any wild game meat. She gets the deer leg bones and treat then for a few hours before she's allowed to have them. I didn't know I could bleach it. When I talked to a wild game butcher he said the best way to go is to use sea salt. 

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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not to keen on bleaching meat, just that they treat our food meet with bleach (chicken) and ammonia (pink slime hamburger-which has slid back in I understand)

I would not brine any meat either. That kind of sodium is not good for man nor beast. It is an issue I have with grocery store prefrozen chicken. They inject a lot of that with salts


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