# finally had my frustrating off-lead dog story :/



## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

If you’ve read through some of my threads, you’d know that I have an almost 18-week GSD, who is struggling with frustration-based leash reactivity. 
I’ve been trying everything I can for the past week or so, to work on it by myself while we find a private trainer. 

- I’ve been getting up an hour earlier, to take him on walks earlier (we get to the park around 6am now)

- we walk the other way before he can react to another dog

- we’ve been working on engagement (look at me) and impulse control (leave it)

however, where we are in our training at the moment, we’re avoiding all up-close or on-leash meets (even 10 feet away) with other dogs.

*so onto the story *


now a few days ago, we got up and did our usual routine, except my mum was coming on the walk with me, as she wanted to see what I do with him.
So we left the house at 6:10 maybe, and got to the park at 6:30 (later than usual, but still earlier than our walks prior to the training). When we got to the park, there were no dogs (at all), and only people who were jogging or speed-walking or whatever - Bailey couldn’t care less about people. 

After maybe 20-30 minutes of us being in the park, an older dog (Labrador) began approaching us slowly - he had one eye, and we later found out he was turning 14 that year. I saw him at maybe 12ft away, and looked around for his owner, who was on her phone in the opposite direction, not watching the dog at all, several meters away.
I tell Bailey to sit and wait while I called over to her “Excuse me! Is that your dog?”. 
She looked up, nodded and slowly walked her way over.
The dog, was getting closed and closer (at this point, I couldn’t move anywhere because the other side of the path was blocked with a cleaning truck), so I told the owner again, “Can you call your dog away!”. 
She called back, “don’t worry about him, he’s friendly!” 🤦‍♀️

The dog got six feet away from us, and Bailey finally noticed him, and started his usual barking and growling at it. I snapped his lead once, and try to pull him back into his sit and look at me - with he ignored.

By the time the owner gets to her dog, the dogs have met already, so Bailey has calmed down and only wants to play more.

She walks up to us, smiles when she sees that two dogs are fine and says... “see! You should let your dog meet others more often, it’s good for socialising”.

I told her, “no. He’s in training, he shouldn’t be meeting other dogs while he’s on the lead”. And she says, again, “oh well.”

I started to get more upset at that point and told her “your dog shouldn’t be off leash, if it doesn’t know not to approach dogs that are on leash.”

At this point, she’s getting upset too, and goes “in the end of the day, my dog is friendly”.

So I just felt to have to say, “Well, you didn’t know that mine was. Keep your dog away from us. Please ”.

She, then tells my mum (who is standing a few feet behind me with absolutely no knowledge as to why this interaction was wrong) that she needs to teach her child (me) to be more respectful to adults...

As she calls her dog away - the dog seemed to have pretty solid recall, so I don’t know why she wanted to cause a problem, Bailey is now pulling and barking more because he wants to go play with his new friend :/

We ended the walk an hour later, and she, thankfully, didn’t let the dog approach us again. I’m hoping that this doesn’t set our training back


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Her dog is 14, so for 14 years she had a dog that didn't have a problem with other dogs. Or she obtained the dog as an adult, but most people do not obtain a geriatric dog with major problems, so it is likely she had the dog for quite a while and did know that her dog was indeed friendly with other dogs. 

Ok, here's the thing, when dog owners that own ordinary dogs that do not have any hang-ups with people or dogs go out, they aren't thinking about people who have dogs that do. In fact, they probably think just everyone sees their dog as they do, and loves to have it run up to them and their animals. It doesn't occur to them that anyone would find this behavior annoying or even dangerous. They have this idea that if you had a dangerous dog, you would not take it out, especially into a park. 

You have a puppy, not a dangerous dog. You were right, unless it was an off-lead park and you were in the off-lead section. Then you really cannot expect everyone to leash their dog and keep it away from yours. But if you were not in a specific off-lead dog area, then yeah, she should have had her dog on-lead or at least kept it from approaching your dog, especially if you asked her to. 

Maybe she was even right that your dog just needs to have more friendly encounters with dogs. Except that she doesn't know what you want for your dog. Maybe she assumed that since you were in a park that you indeed would welcome encounters with dogs. In short, she shouldn't have done what she did. And she certainly should not have told your mother how to raise a kid, because you're mom could have told her that her mom should have taught her a thing or two too. 

The only caution I have is that during and after any such encounter, allowing yourself to get angry or upset will telegraph down the line to your dog. Your dog may have had no difficulty with a strange dog, but if you charge that experience with anxiety or anger you can create a problem as our dogs often react from how they sense our response is to a situation. Certainly, come here and vent your spleen about such situations, but in the moment remain calm, physically and emotionally. Even a really negative experience can be made worse by our reaction or can be made little of after the fact by our lack of emotional energy. If your dog is really hurt, then it is far better for you to respond to the situation with calmness and confidence. And think of it that way. You are being calm and confident for your puppy. Wait until you put your dog it its safe space to let yourself go. It is hard to do sometimes. When you have kids, think about it, when your kid is bleeding out of their head, what is better, crying or yelling hysterically, or telling one of your other kids to get a dark-colored, clean wash rag? 40 years later your kid may wonder if you cared more about the stain on the wash rag than their bleeding head, but in the moment the kid is a lot calmer throughout because the parent is not freaking out. 

I don't think I could have ever enticed my mother to take a walk at any time during the day, but never in a million years at 6am. Good job!


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

selzer said:


> Her dog is 14, so for 14 years she had a dog that didn't have a problem with other dogs. Or she obtained the dog as an adult, but most people do not obtain a geriatric dog with major problems, so it is likely she had the dog for quite a while and did know that her dog was indeed friendly with other dogs.


her dog was definitely friendly, so it’s not about her dog, who is a total sweetheart. It’s more than I called to her when her dog was far enough away from me that we could’ve avoided this whole interaction.




selzer said:


> Ok, here's the thing, when dog owners that own ordinary dogs that do not have any hang-ups with people or dogs go out, they aren't thinking about people who have dogs that do. In fact, they probably think just everyone sees their dog as they do, and loves to have it run up to them and their animals. It doesn't occur to them that anyone would find this behavior annoying or even dangerous. They have this idea that if you had a dangerous dog, you would not take it out, especially into a park.
> 
> You have a puppy, not a dangerous dog. You were right, unless it was an off-lead park and you were in the off-lead section. Then you really cannot expect everyone to leash their dog and keep it away from yours. But if you were not in a specific off-lead dog area, then yeah, she should have had her dog on-lead or at least kept it from approaching your dog, especially if you asked her to.


yeah definitely. The park isn’t an off-lead park or a dog park, but there are no rules on keeping your dogs on the leash. I just feel like she should’ve been watching the dog :/




selzer said:


> The only caution I have is that during and after any such encounter, allowing yourself to get angry or upset will telegraph down the line to your dog. Your dog may have had no difficulty with a strange dog, but if you charge that experience with anxiety or anger you can create a problem as our dogs often react from how they sense our response is to a situation. Certainly, come here and vent your spleen about such situations, but in the moment remain calm, physically and emotionally. Even a really negative experience can be made worse by our reaction or can be made little of after the fact by our lack of emotional energy. If your dog is really hurt, then it is far better for you to respond to the situation with calmness and confidence. And think of it that way. You are being calm and confident for your puppy. Wait until you put your dog it its safe space to let yourself go. It is hard to do sometimes. When you have kids, think about it, when your kid is bleeding out of their head, what is better, crying or yelling hysterically, or telling one of your other kids to get a dark-colored, clean wash rag? 40 years later your kid may wonder if you cared more about the stain on the wash rag than their bleeding head, but in the moment the kid is a lot calmer throughout because the parent is not freaking out.
> 
> I don't think I could have ever enticed my mother to take a walk at any time during the day, but never in a million years at 6am. Good job!


yeah I definitely understand that one. I’m going to definitely try to be more placid. I could’ve been more mad but it wasn’t a huge deal to me, aside from an annoyance - it would’ve been worse if the actually wasn’t friendly but thankfully he was. Bailey is as big as our chow chow already and weighs 20kg. I just don’t want him to be reactive as an adult, because he’s going to be big and scary, and that bark of his doesn’t make it any better.

haha my mum is alright (ish) with early morning walks but she wouldn’t do it by choice🙈


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i had a “see, they’re fine” response given to me recently... i followed by telling the woman my dog had canine herpes - never saw someone rush to grab their dog so quickly.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Fodder said:


> i had a “see, they’re fine” response given to me recently... i followed by telling the woman my dog had canine herpes - never saw someone rush to grab their dog so quickly.


I’m going to remember that one!!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Fodder said:


> i had a “see, they’re fine” response given to me recently... i followed by telling the woman my dog had canine herpes - never saw someone rush to grab their dog so quickly.


I might not be in the best mood this morning, but this certainly made my day better.


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Fodder said:


> i had a “see, they’re fine” response given to me recently... i followed by telling the woman my dog had canine herpes - never saw someone rush to grab their dog so quickly.


Hahah I’m going to keep that one in mind 😂


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

We thankfully had a nice encounter with some fellow shepherds in the park - these people were nice, and didn’t just let their dog run up. This time he was on the long-line (which is the lead I let him meet other dogs on. It’s weird but he knows the difference). Bailey and the huge long-haired one, had a nice play fight together, and all three of them chased a ball together which was really nice. In a way, I feel way more confident with other GSD owners, knowing they have more experience and are used to the breed. Of course, we’ll make sure he meets all kinds of dogs, big, small, yappy, playful etc but these two, we will hopefully see more of. Especially as the owners weren’t bad either 🙈


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## Chloé&Buck (Jul 1, 2020)

@Baileyshuman, keep up the good work, it will pay 
I have been through this whole thing with Buck and it took several months for him to be able to not blow a fuse at each passing dog, and about a whole year to get him fully "recovered" from that darn leash reactivity. Most people don't have a clue how that type of reactivity works and unfortunately some annoying situations like that will happen once in a while... but from my experience it doesn't set you back that much as long as you keep working and outweighing the occasional blunders with functional situations.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Well of course he’s going to get along with German Shepherds. (I don’ t know if it’s true but I had to say that.). The woman was wrong and horribly rude. I hate people like that who are so ignorant they don’t know any better, I got into a similar argument with a neighbor whose bulldog was loose when I had my fear biter. I suggested both she and her dog let me pass and she started whining that I was ruining her day. I told her it would be even more ruined if she got too close to my dog because he was not friendly. I was trying to cross the street to get away from her. I wasn’t worried about her dog because mine was only HA, but I needed to get past her to get home. I said Please get your dog and yourself out of my way so I can get past your house. She still refused and started arguing with me. Finally I was able to get into the street far enough away from her dog to get away from both of them. I found out later she was extremely ill and I felt badly but she and her dog are part of a long list of reasons I don’t take my current dogs walking at home anymore. Too many untrained dogs and clueless owners.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Few people are ruder than those who think they're right because of their age (and that asking rude adults to move away is disrespectful). Sheesh. 

Agis's reactivity is almost gone, but we still try to be mindful of making sure he has space, even if we need to say something to the people (he's generally friendly if the first establishment is from a distance, and even then, he doesn't get to say hi to the every dog that lives around here). But it truly is amazing how clueless some people are.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think the lady was rude too, but they're also in Canada -- not sure about Canadians and what is considered rude there. The park wasn't an off-lead dog park, but it had no rules about dogs and leashes either. Here in Ohio, there is a leash law state-wide. But it does say that it could be voice-control, so beaches and parks will say "NO DOGS" or they will say, "all dogs must be leashed." There doesn't seem to be any in-between. My friend who used to live in Germany before and during WWII, who is gone now, said that dogs accompanied them everywhere, the pub, the restaurant, and I did not ask specifically, but they may not have been leashed. Think of Oliver Twist and Bill Sykes dog, Bullseye. The dog wasn't leashed and it went with him everywhere and everyone just accepted it. For a free country, the US is NOT very free about their dogs. 

In native American villages dogs did not necessarily go inside with the people, but they ran loose everywhere. I think that the separating of dogs to their people and making most public places un-dog friendly, we have created this anti-social problem between dogs and the general public. Think about it, if dogs were not on lead, all over the place, how many people would be rushing up to you to pet your dog? The dog would come to them to be petted or ignore them, and they probably wouldn't have such a reaction to dogs anyway.

Sigh. We cannot go back to where dogs were accepted as part of village life and we cannot go back to a time when people had a great dog and bred it and had puppies and that was how everyone got their puppy. Instead we have Breeders and we have leash laws and we have liability insurance that reflects the sue-crazy society that we live in. 

Loved the comment on canine herpes. For anyone that doesn't know canine herpes is a very real thing and most dogs have had and you never knew it. A fever of 103 degrees knocks it out. And for dogs, that isn't much of an elevation at all. The issue, of course is in whelps whose temperature does not reach adult temperature until about 4 weeks. So, before then, and especially in the first two weeks, canine herpes will wipe out a litter. A lot of breeders will deliberately have their bitches exposed to it so that she will have antibodies. And most of us wait until 4 weeks before allowing people to visit our litters.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Baileyshuman said:


> If you’ve read through some of my threads, you’d know that I have an almost 18-week GSD, who is struggling with frustration-based leash reactivity.
> I’ve been trying everything I can for the past week or so, to work on it by myself while we find a private trainer.
> 
> - I’ve been getting up an hour earlier, to take him on walks earlier (we get to the park around 6am now)
> ...


If this is the worst off leash encounter you have with your puppy, you will have led an enchanted life! 

The lady "should" in an ideal world, have called her dog away before it greeted your puppy. But trust me, much worse things will pop up! Take them in stride, deal with situations as they arise, and stay calm. Most times it's fine in the end. Dog's really don't really want to kill each other, or even fight, for the most part! And trust me, your puppy is likely less "traumatized" by an incident like this than you are, and that flavors future encounters!

I was at a river beach a year or so ago, and just as my dog and I were leaving and had put her on leash, these two big Male dogs (it turns out) came barreling out of their property and up the beach toward us. I thought they'd just do a show of bravado and retreat, but it soon became obvious, as they barreled up the beach toward us from 150 yds away, they had no intention of stopping short.

My response, I unleashed my dog to give her equal footing, so to speak. After a boisterous greeting, we all parted friends, no harm no foul! They were fine with my dog, though one of them tried to menace me a little bit. So, a couple of tense moments, but alls well that ends well...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

tim_s_adams said:


> If this is the worst off leash encounter you have with your puppy, you will have led an enchanted life!
> 
> The lady "should" in an ideal world, have called her dog away before it greeted your puppy. But trust me, much worse things will pop up! Take them in stride, deal with situations as they arise, and stay calm. Most times it's fine in the end. Dog's really don't really want to kill each other, or even fight, for the most part! And trust me, your puppy is likely less "traumatized" by an incident like this than you are, and that flavors future encounters!
> 
> ...


LOL, I think we should have thread for dog-off lead encounters. We all have them. Some of us have many. The one that I would site would be Ninja Vs. the little Yorkie Mix.: Ninja had just gotten the cone off from when she had attacked Jenna and got the worst of it. Or maybe it was the hematoma operation, got her stitches out, not sure which. But we stopped at the park and coming back over the soccer field we were charged by this Yorkie mix she could have stepped on and squashed. Instead, I said "LEAVE IT" and "HEEL" and she heeled all the way back to my car and and while I unlocked it while this thing snarled at us and circled and tried to charge. Before she got to us, I yelled at the owner to "Get Cher Dog!" and he yelled at it which did nothing at all. He finally got off his behind and came over as I was entering my car after loading Ninja. He got his dog and was making some dumb apology but I just drove away. I am sure on his Yorkie-mix internet site he was bragging that evening how his dog took on a big, bad German Shepherd. There are no shortage of idiots in the world. If you own a GSD, then your dog is at fault, and we have to protect them from our stupid society.


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Chloé&Buck said:


> @Baileyshuman, keep up the good work, it will pay
> I have been through this whole thing with Buck and it took several months for him to be able to not blow a fuse at each passing dog, and about a whole year to get him fully "recovered" from that darn leash reactivity. Most people don't have a clue how that type of reactivity works and unfortunately some annoying situations like that will happen once in a while... but from my experience it doesn't set you back that much as long as you keep working and outweighing the occasional blunders with functional situations.


Thank you. Yeah I’m just hoping we can work on it. I’m still on the hunt for a good trainer who doesn’t cost £300 per session but hopefully we can find one 🙈



LuvShepherds said:


> Well of course he’s going to get along with German Shepherds. (I don’ t know if it’s true but I had to say that.). The woman was wrong and horribly rude. I hate people like that who are so ignorant they don’t know any better, I got into a similar argument with a neighbor whose bulldog was loose when I had my fear biter. I suggested both she and her dog let me pass and she started whining that I was ruining her day. I told her it would be even more ruined if she got too close to my dog because he was not friendly. I was trying to cross the street to get away from her. I wasn’t worried about her dog because mine was only HA, but I needed to get past her to get home. I said Please get your dog and yourself out of my way so I can get past your house. She still refused and started arguing with me. Finally I was able to get into the street far enough away from her dog to get away from both of them. I found out later she was extremely ill and I felt badly but she and her dog are part of a long list of reasons I don’t take my current dogs walking at home anymore. Too many untrained dogs and clueless owners.


Ooh wow. I feel like these things could be so much easier if people just listened, it’s 20 seconds out of your day or a quick “doggy, come here” and you can carry on with your day. If someone said to me “can you call your dog away” (not that any of my dogs know how to be off-lead yet), I’d just say “yep, no problem”. Simple as that.



selzer said:


> I think the lady was rude too, but they're also in Canada -- not sure about Canadians and what is considered rude there. The park wasn't an off-lead dog park, but it had no rules about dogs and leashes either. Here in Ohio, there is a leash law state-wide. But it does say that it could be voice-control, so beaches and parks will say "NO DOGS" or they will say, "all dogs must be leashed." There doesn't seem to be any in-between. My friend who used to live in Germany before and during WWII, who is gone now, said that dogs accompanied them everywhere, the pub, the restaurant, and I did not ask specifically, but they may not have been leashed. Think of Oliver Twist and Bill Sykes dog, Bullseye. The dog wasn't leashed and it went with him everywhere and everyone just accepted it. For a free country, the US is NOT very free about their dogs.
> 
> In native American villages dogs did not necessarily go inside with the people, but they ran loose everywhere. I think that the separating of dogs to their people and making most public places un-dog friendly, we have created this anti-social problem between dogs and the general public. Think about it, if dogs were not on lead, all over the place, how many people would be rushing up to you to pet your dog? The dog would come to them to be petted or ignore them, and they probably wouldn't have such a reaction to dogs anyway.
> 
> ...


Haha how I’d wish to live in Canada (I’m in London, England). I would gladly let Bailey meet all the dogs in the world, but he goes on and on, it terrifies people who have small children with them, it terrifies the small children, it terrifies some of the other dogs etc. 

We do definitely need to let him meet other dogs, so hopefully some more nice owners can come about 😅



tim_s_adams said:


> If this is the worst off leash encounter you have with your puppy, you will have led an enchanted life!
> 
> The lady "should" in an ideal world, have called her dog away before it greeted your puppy. But trust me, much worse things will pop up! Take them in stride, deal with situations as they arise, and stay calm. Most times it's fine in the end. Dog's really don't really want to kill each other, or even fight, for the most part! And trust me, your puppy is likely less "traumatized" by an incident like this than you are, and that flavors future encounters!
> 
> ...


Yeah, it’s the worst we’ve had in the 7 weeks of owning Bailey, and hopefully we get no worse. I’d 100% be more worried about off-lead dogs if I lived with my dad. When our chow was 6-7 months old, he and my 16 year old (at the time) sister were attacked by a German shepherd (I later ended up getting a shepherd, to my fathers disarray). My chow had no major injuries, a bite on his face and leg, and my sister had a huge bite on her arm - if I can remember correctly. To be honest, those owners were the worst I’ve ever heard of, and I see them every once in a while. Their dogs are now on leads... flexi-leads that will pull them across the street.

Yeah I try to do the same “equal footing” with Bailey. In this case, we had a truck behind us, Bailey doesn’t have recall solid enough to be off-lead, he was on a 4ft nylon lead, so I didn’t want him to be trapped. If I had my long-line on me, I’d have been alright (I think, maybe). New owner troubles I guess lol



selzer said:


> LOL, I think we should have thread for dog-off lead encounters. We all have them. Some of us have many. The one that I would site would be Ninja Vs. the little Yorkie Mix.: Ninja had just gotten the cone off from when she had attacked Jenna and got the worst of it. Or maybe it was the hematoma operation, got her stitches out, not sure which. But we stopped at the park and coming back over the soccer field we were charged by this Yorkie mix she could have stepped on and squashed. Instead, I said "LEAVE IT" and "HEEL" and she heeled all the way back to my car and and while I unlocked it while this thing snarled at us and circled and tried to charge. Before she got to us, I yelled at the owner to "Get Cher Dog!" and he yelled at it which did nothing at all. He finally got off his behind and came over as I was entering my car after loading Ninja. He got his dog and was making some dumb apology but I just drove away. I am sure on his Yorkie-mix internet site he was bragging that evening how his dog took on a big, bad German Shepherd. There are no shortage of idiots in the world. If you own a GSD, then your dog is at fault, and we have to protect them from our stupid society.


Ah wow. It’s definitely often the little dogs who have no training and cause the most trouble. Leave it is definitely on our list of must train’. I’m just going to have to be more pro-active in stopping the situation next time


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oops I should have been able to read your flag. I know this is a Canadian own site, and for some reason Canada came into my brain. The Oliver Twist reference of Bullseye is even more apt, LOL!


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## Chloé&Buck (Jul 1, 2020)

Wow, is a good trainer that expensive in your area? You'd pay less than 60 EUR per session with my trainer.
He'd have you come to his facility first to work Bailey around his own dogs, then you would be able to register for "educative group walks" where he takes groups of owners and their dogs on supervised long walks for less than 20 EUR/person.
It allows you to work on various things, dogs will walk/heel on leash for a while, in line or side by side, then for instance we'll have the dogs sit in a line, and each of the dogs will be taken to zigzag between other dogs. You can work on recall where your dog has to ignore the others, etc.
And then at the end of the session, when all dogs are calm, you ask them a command of your choice and reward them with some freedom.


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## Chloé&Buck (Jul 1, 2020)

Having such flexibility and being able to let your dog interact with others once in a calm state is incredibly efficient, every session like this you make incredible progress.
With Buck I have only done the first evaluation session at the facility and then one educational walk as these activities were put on hold with Covid restrictions. But it put us on the right track and then I just made sure to use every possible occasion to make more progress, asked some neighbors to help by having their dogs walk past us at various distances, etc.
It was hard work but super enriching too, I learned a lot in the process, I don't even have the terminology to describe how much both me and my dog learned actually.


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

selzer said:


> Oops I should have been able to read your flag. I know this is a Canadian own site, and for some reason Canada came into my brain. The Oliver Twist reference of Bullseye is even more apt, LOL!


hahah I mean there is London, Ontario 



Chloé&Buck said:


> Having such flexibility and being able to let your dog interact with others once in a calm state is incredibly efficient, every session like this you make incredible progress.
> With Buck I have only done the first evaluation session at the facility and then one educational walk as these activities were put on hold with Covid restrictions. But it put us on the right track and then I just made sure to use every possible occasion to make more progress, asked some neighbors to help by having their dogs walk past us at various distances, etc.
> It was hard work but super enriching too, I learned a lot in the process, I don't even have the terminology to describe how much both me and my dog learned actually.


Ah wow that’s amazing! Hopefully I can find something like that for us. Our group training was £65 for 4 sessions but I’ve not seen a private trainer for less than £250 so far


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

It sounds like you are doing all the right things with your dog!!
We went through that too, for the first few months.

Now I'm going to be the unhelpful annoying dissenter here and say that I love sweet old friendly dogs, and I always let my dog say Hi to them. It seems like a friendly encounter cheers up both dogs and make them happy. They are social creatures...

We have been attacked multiple times by offleash dogs...so I guess that kind of changed my perspective and scale of measurement...
this encounter, in my book, is annoying but not a "biggie". Although the owner did sound judgmental.

Chloe&Buck's training class sounds awesome!
Group obedience class helped my dog a lot too...unbelievably, by class #6 all dogs were sitting in a line, 3 feet apart, looking at their owners. It really helped with the reactivity behavior...not so much because he made 'dog friends' but because he was taught, this is how we behave around other dogs..._we still listen to our humans.

PS Wow there are a lot of shepherds at your park! We only get one once in a blue moon, at ours. _


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

GSDchoice said:


> It sounds like you are doing all the right things with your dog!!
> We went through that too, for the first few months.
> 
> Now I'm going to be the unhelpful annoying dissenter here and say that I love sweet old friendly dogs, and I always let my dog say Hi to them. It seems like a friendly encounter cheers up both dogs and make them happy. They are social creatures...
> ...


yeah I definitely agree. It’s not the worst thing that could happen, it’s just annoying. We had him booked into group classes, that we signed him up to before he showed any reactive behaviours. When we noticed the behaviour we let the trainer know and they thought it would be a bad idea for him to be in the group classes and that we should find a private trainer instead :/ 

yes! There were actually two more shepherds in the park aside from Bailey and his new friends, but the other owners said that their dogs were dangerous and we shouldn’t go near them - I’m not sure how they know it but just for peace of mind, we won’t.


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## Church (Aug 5, 2021)

Baileyshuman said:


> If you’ve read through some of my threads, you’d know that I have an almost 18-week GSD, who is struggling with frustration-based leash reactivity.
> I’ve been trying everything I can for the past week or so, to work on it by myself while we find a private trainer.
> 
> - I’ve been getting up an hour earlier, to take him on walks earlier (we get to the park around 6am now)
> ...


That sounds frustrating ! We've had the same problem..


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## Church (Aug 5, 2021)

Baileyshuman said:


> We thankfully had a nice encounter with some fellow shepherds in the park - these people were nice, and didn’t just let their dog run up. This time he was on the long-line (which is the lead I let him meet other dogs on. It’s weird but he knows the difference). Bailey and the huge long-haired one, had a nice play fight together, and all three of them chased a ball together which was really nice. In a way, I feel way more confident with other GSD owners, knowing they have more experience and are used to the breed. Of course, we’ll make sure he meets all kinds of dogs, big, small, yappy, playful etc but these two, we will hopefully see more of. Especially as the owners weren’t bad either 🙈
> View attachment 574487
> View attachment 574488


Omg your boy looks like mine!?!?!?!


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

I thought I’d come back to this thread, three months later, to say; it happened again! This time it was an aggressive little white fluffy dog.
We were on our evening walk in a new park just minding our business. Bailey saw another gsd and just ignored it - yay!! Then as we’re playing and training in the middle of the park (far from the path), the tiny fluffy dog runs up to us - I must admit it was super cute. It didn’t bark or growl. Looked like a little adorable pup. And it was off-lead, so I assumed it was trained.
Bah! Bad idea.
I loosened baileys lead so he didn’t feel tense and could greet it. Then the little dog snarled and started jumping and biting on Bailey - who stood there with no clue as to what happened. The dog didn’t stop trying at all, even after my mum got him by his collar and moved him away from Bailey while I yelled, “excuse me! Can you get your dog!” And the owners start running up from like across the park and grabbed the dog from my mum who had him by his collar - there is no way, I’m risking Bailey becoming dog aggressive because some little doggies keep biting him. The owners laughed for a moment, and apologised with a massive grin. Then clipped the dog onto it’s retractable leash. And walked away. I had to roll my eyes. Absolutely hilarious. Unless Bailey retaliated and killed the thing (which, thankfully, I don’t think he ever would but as you know, it’s not impossible). I do have to find it funny though, being the owner of this <60lb dog and telling someone to get their rabbit-sized pup away from mine.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

Fodder said:


> i had a “see, they’re fine” response given to me recently... i followed by telling the woman my dog had canine herpes - never saw someone rush to grab their dog so quickly.


I’m DEFINITELY using this “canine herpes” line.


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## Rabidwolfie (Apr 9, 2021)

This reminds me of our trip today.
I took Sutter Cain to Tractor Supply, because he needs more leash work AND training about behavior indoors besides my own house. He gets along great with every dogs he's ever met so far, but I am well aware how a lot of people do not bother training their dogs.

There was a guy there walking a pair of (surprisingly large) australian shepherds. At First, Sutter Cain just watched them quietly while sitting beside me, but then the aussies began barking and trying to lunge at him. The guy was barely holding them back, so I told Sutter Cain to walk the other way. AND HE BEGAN FOLLOWING US!!!

I had to keep dodging this guy and his dogs because we couldn't seem to get away from them! Thankfully, my baby does not lunge and is easily called away form such distractions when needed, but that was not the most pleasant experience we've ever had with another dog owner. It was GREAT for his training, however. So I guess there's that. But the last thing I want is my baby getting attacked because someone else couldn't or wouldn't control their OWN animal.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Rabidwolfie maybe the owner was telling his dogs to look at Sutter as a good example. "See what good manners that dog has?You two are shameful!" 🤣 
I wouldn't have been happy about it either though.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

A bad off-leash encounter might be like the time a pit bull leapt off the grass, shocking Jupiter so much he broke his prong collar, and chased him down the block. Or when a husky ripped out of his owner's hands, ran half-way down a different block, even turning a corner, to attack Jupiter. Or when another "friendly" pit again shockingly jumped up and attacked, this time pulling the empty trash can to which it was leashed along after it, making an incredibly loud noise.

An encounter where the dogs end up friends seems like a good one, where the dog learned that other dogs can be nice--unless, I suppose one doesn't want ones dogs to think that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

In all the classes I have attended over the years, my dog was attacked one time by a clueless little man's little dog. It was some form of terrier. I cannot remember the brand. But he was sporting an e-collar and a prong collar and a citronella collar that was supposed to spray him in the face when he barked. The dog was a wreck, but I did not make a huge scene about it because if anyone needed classes, that guy did. You know, church is for the sinners kind of thinking. But the next time they started having outdoor classes at a time I could attend, I learned that the dog attacked one of their Leonbergers and the guy and his dog is no longer welcome. 

Off-lead there was a pit bull that crashed out of its screen door and went after Arwen who was heeling off-lead at my side. There was a game of chase in circles around me and finally the people corralled theirs and Arwen came back to my side. We all apologized to each other and we went on our merry way. The important thing, even if your dog is bleeding is to remain calm and not get in a shouting match. Our behavior, particularly if we lose control, can make things a whole lot worse. Dogs can manage pain pretty good, but they don't manage owners who lose their cool so well. Why, because a strong leader never lets his crazy out. Dogs will follow a good leader, but have a hard time with owners that seem unpredictable or out of control. Think about it as though your dog is a 4 or 5 year old kid. It falls down and scrapes its knee. There is blood and it hurts. The child will settle down a whole lot faster, if the parent or person in charge doesn't freak out. 

When my older sister was 2, she was doing what the older brothers were doing: climbing up a tall dresser and jumping onto my parents bed. She got up there, but she was afraid to jump. One of my brothers (I think the 5.5 year old "helped" her). My mom was downstairs with me, (I was just born), but she heard the scurrying of feet and then silence. When you have 4 kids under six, you learn really fast that silence is not your friend. She went upstairs just in time for my sister to stand up and look at her head in the mirror. The blood started to run and was going to hit her dress. My mom threw her on the floor and I can hear it, she told the boys to get her a dark-colored-clean wash rag. Mom says there was hamburger coming out of her head. She had to call the police because my dad was out. The neighbor lady took care of me and the boys while the police took her to the ER and Lynn got 29 stitches on the outside and more on the inside. All pictures began to be labeled, "Before Scar." But the point is, Mom couldn't freak out when there was blood everywhere and hamburger coming out of her kid's head. She needed to stay calm and take action. And that calmed my sister down and everyone down, and that is what we have to remember when our critters have scenarios like these. However bad it looks, becoming angry or hyper isn't going to make it any better. The dog getting bit is less likely to lose the confidence the dog has in you than if you were to become angry or start yelling at the other person, and walking off in a huff. 

It sounds like you and your dog are doing great. Usually, I wait until we are in the car driving home, but then I tell my dog how proud I am of him. They don't understand except they know that I am giving them praise. And that is what counts. In the moment, I generally reserve any scolding or praise. I want us to get into a better frame of mind, and then scolding is pointless. But praise, like "You were such a good boy today, you're worth a million bucks" goes down good. And being able to finish off Susie's ice cream cone even better.


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

selzer said:


> In all the classes I have attended over the years, my dog was attacked one time by a clueless little man's little dog. It was some form of terrier. I cannot remember the brand. But he was sporting an e-collar and a prong collar and a citronella collar that was supposed to spray him in the face when he barked. The dog was a wreck, but I did not make a huge scene about it because if anyone needed classes, that guy did. You know, church is for the sinners kind of thinking. But the next time they started having outdoor classes at a time I could attend, I learned that the dog attacked one of their Leonbergers and the guy and his dog is no longer welcome.
> 
> Off-lead there was a pit bull that crashed out of its screen door and went after Arwen who was heeling off-lead at my side. There was a game of chase in circles around me and finally the people corralled theirs and Arwen came back to my side. We all apologized to each other and we went on our merry way. The important thing, even if your dog is bleeding is to remain calm and not get in a shouting match. Our behavior, particularly if we lose control, can make things a whole lot worse. Dogs can manage pain pretty good, but they don't manage owners who lose their cool so well. Why, because a strong leader never lets his crazy out. Dogs will follow a good leader, but have a hard time with owners that seem unpredictable or out of control. Think about it as though your dog is a 4 or 5 year old kid. It falls down and scrapes its knee. There is blood and it hurts. The child will settle down a whole lot faster, if the parent or person in charge doesn't freak out.
> 
> ...


Yeah definitely. All I actually said to them was “get your dog” lol and carried on our walk - training and playing. Bailey is already a reactive pup so while he is getting a LOT better - I can’t *risk* it changing from frustration to fear/aggression. I’ve had to learn tons more about absolutely everything revolving dogs and mainly reactivity, but because it is going really well right now, I’m just cautious that something will ruin it - which is probably inevitable. He did get a “good job bails” as we walked home, but that was because he was walking nicely and didn’t react to any of the dogs - so hopefully that’s counts


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

CactusWren said:


> A bad off-leash encounter might be like the time a pit bull leapt off the grass, shocking Jupiter so much he broke his prong collar, and chased him down the block. Or when a husky ripped out of his owner's hands, ran half-way down a different block, even turning a corner, to attack Jupiter. Or when another "friendly" pit again shockingly jumped up and attacked, this time pulling the empty trash can to which it was leashed along after it, making an incredibly loud noise.
> 
> An encounter where the dogs end up friends seems like a good one, where the dog learned that other dogs can be nice--unless, I suppose one doesn't want ones dogs to think that.


My other dog was properly attacked by a “friendly” GSD as a puppy. He had a few injuries that had scared over now. He is, thankfully, back to being dog-neutral (after a few months) and fine.
Now, if I’m training my dog-reactive dog (whether this is how other people do it or not), I don’t want to take ANY risks for meeting aggressive dogs, or meeting any dogs at all while we’re training, or him thinking that we just play every time we leave the house. And of course it could be great if they all could just run together and be friends, but it’s not always plausible. I need him to be neutral. Our park walks aren’t to make friends. I don’t let my younger sister play with every kid we cross the street with, but she can play in the park if she want to. Bailey gets the same, I want him to know that we’re not friends with all the dogs that we walk passed. But if I clip your lead off in the dog park, sure go play! Neither of these experiences have caused a huge problem for me or my dog, except they shouldn’t have happened.
But no, I don’t really want Bailey to become friends with every dog we see - we have ten or so “dog-park dog friends” and I’m pretty good with that


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## Arrow-the-GSD (Aug 26, 2021)

Honestly off leash dogs are the bane of our existence walking in our neighborhood. Back when I had my Australian Shepherd she came within inches of being grabbed by the throat by a dog (sorry changed that didn’t realize we couldn’t say certain breed names 😅). Thankfully I had my walking stick with me and blocked it, but dog attacks always leave us shaken up!


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