# CGC test and fur saver collar?



## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Can I use a fur-saver collar during the Canine Good Citizen test? 

My 20 month old GSD is all business when he's wearing any sort of metal collar (or a vest), but when he just has a _flat_ nylon collar, he pulls like a crazy man. I don't even have to put the fur-saver on the live loop, just having a heavier metal collar does the trick.

Has anyone gone through a CGC test using a fur-saver? 


From the AKC website:

_Equipment

All tests must be performed on leash. Dogs should wear well-fitting buckle or slip collars made of leather, fabric, or chain. Special training collars such as pinch collars, head halters, etc. are not permitted in the CGC test. We recognize that special training collars may be very useful tools for beginning dog trainers, however, we feel that dogs are ready to take the CGC test at the point at which they are transitioned to regular collars. _


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## pinkanml (Sep 3, 2007)

I think that should be okay, because it's technically a slip collar, right? I use a prong on Nico for everyday walking, though he doesn't need it (it's more for back up in case a situation arises). On flat collars, if he's really really excited about something, like a dog is charging us, he will sometimes pull a bit. We'll be taking the test soon, so I was wondering what I was going to use.

I'm thinking of getting a martingale with chain loop, or using a fur-saver. If not then I guess I can use a choke chain - how is that not a training collar??









Definitely interested in what others will say.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

Flat collar for CGC and TGI.


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## Skye'sMom (Jul 11, 2004)

Interesting that the quote mentions slip collars. I have never seen a CGC testing that allowed anything but a flat collar.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As per the CGC rules for evaluators: Dogs should wear a well fitting buckle OR slip collar (including martingales) made of leather, fabric or chain. 

So, my evaluator's rules say the same as the rules for those entering the CGC. Your fursaver would be allowed.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I've done 6 or 7 dogs for CGC and every single one has worn a fursaver on dead ring for the test. Have done CDs on all my dogs and always worn a fur saver for those too. Never had a judge remark on it, nor on the fact that I use "steh" for stand and bleib for stay...

Lee


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

<span style="color: #3366FF"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>AKC</span></span>Equipment
All tests must be performed on leash. Dogs should wear well-fitting <span style="color: #FF0000">buckle or slip collars</span> made of leather, fabric, or chain. Special training collars such as pinch collars, head halters, etc. are not permitted in the CGC test. We recognize that special training collars may be very useful tools for beginning dog trainers, however, we feel that dogs are ready to take the CGC test at the point at which they are transitioned to regular collars.
The evaluator supplies a 20-foot lead for the test. The owner/handler should bring the dog's brush or comb to the test.

<span style="color: #3366FF"><span style='font-size: 14pt'>TDI</span></span>
Additional Rules for TDI Testing 
<span style="color: #FF0000">1. Dogs must be tested on a plain buckle collar or harness.</span> Training collars, training harnesses, halties, or any other corrective devices are not permitted during testing or visiting as a TDI registered Therapy Dog.

I`ve always taken the 2 tests together so we had to use a flat collar.


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

I guess it depends on the evaluator. I could not have one on Cody. I had the fursaver on him and they said nope, that is not allowed. Luckily I had another collar with me (because I expected this) and I had to have him wear that.
Take another collar with just in case.








Also, our third leg for the CD, the judge asked me about the fur saver "What is that" and the she said, oh I am not sure if that is allowed. But they let me go with it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

M evaluator told me Kenya could wear her nylon martingale for the test, but I switched to her "flat" rolled leather collar (also used for rally). The other dog that passed was on one of those slip leads popular in agility, but this dog had already passed twice and is off-lead for all her training.

My evaluator would probably tell you the fur saver is allowed if you clip it so it's "dead", not like a choke.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Then the person doing the evaluation did not know the rules. Of course your example is not the first time I have heard of evaluators making up their own rules.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes, the leash does have to be clipped to the dead ring.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthThen the person doing the evaluation did not know the rules. Of course your example is not the first time I have heard of evaluators making up their own rules.


Which is the broken rule? The slip lead? If so, I don't think she cared b/c the dog being tested already passed several times. It was the club owner's dog and the club owner attends every single class and often puts her dogs through them repeatedly. I don't think she was even scored or submitted to the AKC.


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## pinkanml (Sep 3, 2007)

So if the leash must be clipped to the dead ring, why are slip collars permitted? I guess I'm just going to buy a martingale...


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Well a fur saver is a metal slip collar therefore should be allowed in the CGC or any AKC obedience venue. I do not ask that those I evaluate clip the leash to a dead ring. Live ring is legal.


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## pinkanml (Sep 3, 2007)

I just spoke with my trainer friend and she really just wants me to show up with his flat collar (should be fine, the chain collar is more for ME to feel better, lol). She also told me the evaluator requires chain collars to be clipped on the dead ring. Oh well









I wasn't planning on the CGC, not training for it specifically, but my friend is having an evaluator out this week to test other dogs, so I might as well because I know he can do it! I just wish I could do all three dogs, but she said there wouldn't be enough time







I will have to wait until next time for Sasha (my previously crazy fear-aggressive rescue) and Ruger (recent adoptee who is just a big doofy puppy). 

So excited!


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

I am an approved evaluator. As a testor, I would accept a Fur Saver and it would not have to be on the dead ring. There is nothing in the guidelines (rules) that says it has to be on the dead ring when referring to a slip collar.

Any evaluator demanding otherwise, is not following the AKCs rules for the CGC IMO of course









Heck, I remember sevreal years ago testers actually allowing prong collars!







I wish people would follow the guildelines better *sigh*

Your fur saver should be allowed with no requirements as to where the leash was attatched, just so long as it is attatched!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

So, it just depends on if my evaluator knows the rules....? 

Jeeez....









Guess we could bring along a copy of the rules, but that won't endear us to the evaluator any, huh?

Thanks everyone.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Quote: Guess we could bring along a copy of the rules, but that won't endear us to the evaluator any, huh?


If they don't know the rules then they should re-read them. If in doubt an email to the AKC should clear it up. I've sent emails off to the AKC about evaluating dogs with disabled handlers and they responded very quickly.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

And if the evaluator does not know the rules and gets snippy because you questioned them about the rules rules find another one. We are all listed under CGC and then find an evaluator. 

And you should report them to the AKC. The CGC, although not a title, is a temperament test of sorts. Many insurance companies use it with some breeds and to establish homeowners rates. Many therapy organizations use the CGC as a basic test. If it is not performed consistently and the evaluators are not knowledgeable then the test really loses it's meaning. 

The only collars that are specifically prohibited are prongs, head harnesses, no pull/no jump harnesses, and electric devices. I have a test coming up in 2 weeks and one lady wants to use a non restrictive type harness on her dog due to neck problems. As this is not specificaaly prohihited and I am unsure of it I intend to ask AKC. If in doubt - check it out.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Well.... this happened to me last night. 

I am in one CGC class our club teaches and am teaching another one right after the class I am in. Last night we were talking about the test and the instructor / evaluator commented on the fur saver that Havoc had on and stated it was not legal. I said it was simply a metal slip with large rings and did meet the equipment requirements. He said he had never seen one before (he has papillons) and therefore he could not allow it. I suggested he read the rules and learn more about equipment. He mentioned it front of the class so I replied in front of the class. Another student who is also an evalutor agreed with me. Afraid he got embarrassed. Hope he checks his rules. 

I had never had that happen before.


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

It really does amaze me how many people that have their evaluator number and offer classes, hanging out their shingles as a "trainer" are so misinformed or just lack the knowledge! Don't get me wrong, I am not a "know-it-all" lol but I have taken my time to learn about as many tools and methods of training as possible. To really help people with their dogs (and that is what they come to an obedience class for!) you have to know more than one method. You have to know about canine psychology and a little about canine phsyiology. You should know about available equipment. Those are the bare bones IMO. Just because you have a breed that is different from those in class is no excuse not to know about simple things like fur savers! That response "Had never seen one before and therefore ... could not allow it..." well, that's just silly!!!

Glad you set him straight. Sorry he was embarrassed. I hope he reads up on the rules too.

Really, AKC allows too many uneducated evaluators IMO...


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