# Blue



## whitbit317 (Mar 4, 2014)

Is it fair to say that breeders who intentionally breed outside of the standard are not reputable? I've been in touch with a breeder, not for myself, who recently had a blue pup from WGSL dogs with good lines. I was under the impression that if this happened the responsible course of action was to sterilize the animal and not breed the pair that produced it again. This particular breeder has announced that he will add this pup to his breeding program. Is there any justifiable reason for intentionally breeding this defect? This isn't the first move he's made that has made me uncomfortable. He recently had a female that required an emergency c-section and hysterectomy, and after she recovered he offered her to anyone willing to pay a "rehoming" fee of $250. Is this typical for breeding stock that is no longer capable of producing? I'm not at all trying to bash this guy, hence I haven't mentioned his name or kennel's name, but some of these decisions really have me feeling like he may be more of a BYB type. I was just curious what other breeders do when these situations arise.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Blues will come out in different lines, just an unwanted color and still may be a great dog. But not usually one that most reputable breeders would keep to breed. 

It's not uncommon for breeders to find good homes for dogs that were in their breeding program but now no longer are. As long as they were found good homes, they probably get alot more time, love, attention and training in a home with just a couple of dogs then in a kennel or larger breeding program.

Thing is, if you aren't generally getting a good feeling from this breeder it's just easier to keep looking for someone else. There are enough out there doing a great job and we can support their program with no qualms.


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## whitbit317 (Mar 4, 2014)

These are some excerpts from some of our email conversations. He seems to have anywhere from two to three litters on the ground at a time, and recently expanded to breeding rotts as well. 

"if you want hip/elbow certifications on the parents my import females have their hips/elbows evaluated through their respected home land kennel clubs. I started my kennel from the ground up and continue to improve my breeding stock as i go."
"But you also have to understand that it is very expensive to raise and care for my dogs and take care of my family. So this is one of the main reasons most of my dogs dont have hip/elbow evaluations. Yes they are merely $400 or so to get done but you would have to multiply that by 22 dogs. And after my monthly expenses there is not enough money to do things like this." 
"...which brings me to if i consider myself a hobby breeder or a professional. I do consider myself a professional because thats what I do. I am a full time breeder. I am at home all day and supervise 4 employees plus maintain my website and Facebook page as well as a full time dad to 4 young children. My goal as a breeder to produce quality puppies at prices to fit any families needs and wants. When i set out to buy my families 1st German shepherd i was appalled on how expensive they were. I've been apart of the breed since I was a child and found it very offensive that these prices made it next to impossible for the ordinary income family to buy a nice quality German shepherd. It was like you had to be rich to buy a good German shepherd thus giving me the dream of being the middle man. My shepherd puppies are intended to be family pets period. They are better breeders out there so to say on pedigrees and looks but you will pay their very high prices. I have my breeding program designed to produce most any color, type, and quality that a family could want."


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## PMRonan (Mar 29, 2014)

The same reason there are White breeders or breeders that like solid livers. He is delivering a product that some people may want.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

if people didn't breed odd colors. all our dogs would be the same color.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

the blue color doesn't bother me, sometimes it happens, putting it into their breeding program DOES bother me.

His excuse for not evaluating hip/elbow status is NOT an excuse..Can't do it? Don't breed.

His goal is to produce quality puppies? Where's the word "healthy" puppies?

Sure you can buy one for 400$, big deal, how much in vet costs and personal heartbreak is that puppy going to cost over it's lifetime? 

He's a professional alright, a professional money maker that's about it.


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## whitbit317 (Mar 4, 2014)

"----puppies will go to their new homes when they are 8-10 weeks old. This is to ensure that the puppy's immune system is more developed. He/she will be up-to-date on all puppy shots and de-worming. Your puppies health is very important to us. We will take every precaution necessary to ensure you are getting a 100% healthy puppy. All our puppies will be started on NuVet Plus 100% natural vitamin supplement to help strenghten their immune systems and protect them from many other health issues. We offer a 48 hour health guarantee and a two year replacement guarantee against severe, debilitating hip or elbow dysplasia. If you choose to keep your puppy on the NuVet Plus vitamins your puppy will have a lifetime health guarantee. This is how confident we are with the NuVet Plus product."
This is the health guarantee posted on his page, I have a request in to see if the guarantee is any different in the purchase contract. Is it normal to require or so highly recommend a particular supplement be given? I know my breeder didn't require it and I don't recall seeing a lot of it when I was looking for a puppy. 
He currently has 3 GSD litters on the ground and one rott litter. He has five females who are pregnant at the moment. Is it just me, or does the volume seem like a lot? 
Is it fairly easy to import animals from Croatia and Serbia? That's where he's getting his world class dogs from, and I get the feeling this guy isn't that professional. So, how is he coming to possess these animals? He just had one of his world class females die from kidney failure at three years old last month. 

Laso vom Funken Spiel
This is his world class stud. I don't know anything about WGSL, but it looks like it is a well bred dog. This is the stud who threw the blue puppy. 

Estina vom Team Panoniansee
Zambia vom Team Panoniansee
Bianca Vom Ruell Garciahaus
SG2 (12-18 MO CLASS) Yatzee Von Zauber Wiesen
Those four are his world class females.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Run and don't look back, seriously. 

There's a reason that many good breeders charge $1000+, this guy is just in it to make money. The mentality behind his breeding program truly sickens me, and the excuses just have me shaking my head

Decent breeders want *every single puppy* to have the best life possible, that's why they research, title, health test, and screen each buyer throughly. Rarely do they make any money, they're doing it for love of the breed and are pairing the best candidates together to make the next generation always better then the last


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## GSD2727 (Apr 22, 2002)

You see breeders like this all of the time. He has 22 dogs, probably does nothing with them, does not even OFA. Ridiculous. There is NO excuse to not at least OFA your dogs before breeding. Even if it did cost him $400 per dog, ONE puppy he sells would more than pay for that! 

As others said, blues/livers pop up in really well bred litters sometimes. But responsible breeders would make sure they are placed in good homes and not bred from. From the sounds of this guy, this puppy is just another money maker for him. 

It is unbelievable to me that people actually buy from breeders like this, but obviously they do as the breeders stay in business and continue to make money. 

It is not easy or cheap to breed responsibly. And no, puppies may not be cheap. However, you do get what you pay for (to a point). I am far from rich, yet when I want to buy a puppy I do what I have to do and save up if I need to and get a nice well bred puppy. I would do the same even if I were just buying for a pet. I would never ever support a breeder like this, not even for a couple hundred bucks. Unbelievable


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

whitbit317 said:


> Your puppies health is very important to us. We will take every precaution necessary to ensure you are getting a 100% healthy puppy.


If he was concerned about the health of the dogs at the very minimum, he'd be getting them x-rayed.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Shade said:


> Run and don't look back, seriously.


yep

Nothing good here, lots of things wrong.


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