# Buying from a breeder is evil!



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

<rant>

...apparently, according to one of my friends.

Ugh, so this girl will not confront me about me getting a puppy, but she feels the need to post all over facebook about it. Apparently, buying from a breeder is evil because it condemns other dogs to death. To ice the cake, she says that not knowing how horrible it is is disgusting when coming from a veterinary student.

Well that just broke the camel's poor back (I'll be back in 3.25 years to fix that, my friend). I was quiet up to that point, but I couldn't help it anymore. My response:*

"You know why I chose a breeder instead of going to a shelter or breed rescue? It's because I love a breed riddled with health problems due to decades back yard breeders. I want a lifetime companion, not a few year friend. That's why I chose a responsible breeder. My family and I have rescued in the plenty (Laika, Angus, Jake, Abel, Fenrir, Lilly, Chloe..I could go on). Not to mention the hundreds of dollars we donate in aid, and our time spent volunteering.
*

*It's my choice to make a responsible decision for me. And THAT is one of the many reasons I will make a great veterinarian*."

This is also coming from a girl who is obsessed with my rescue Papillon, Laika. So obviously I'm a big proponent for rescues and shelters...for me, this time..breeder was the right choice. Ugh. It's all so childish. If you're going to call someone ignorant for not knowing the "facts," you should actually check them yourself.

</rant>


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Is this supposed to be a friend of yours? I hope not!


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I've had four pre-owned dogs and some from breeders and I foster for a rescue. My current GSD I went out and researched for the right breeder for my needs. I wanted a healthy, stable, and highly competitive dog for dog sports this time and that's what I got. I don't feel at all bad about it either. I do still recommend people that are looking for a pet to check into rescue first.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Not sure if you can calm her enough to realize a breeder isn't a breeder isn't a breeder. 

RESPONSIBLE breeders don't breed that much, find responsible homes for their dogs, usually give limited registries so most of the dogs can't be bred, and will always take a dog back.

I get my dogs from breeders but if I didn't then I'd go to a shelter. I'm not paying one penny to someone who isn't a 'responsible' breeder. Same crap shoot at the shelter, so I save the pup/dog AND give my money to help others in the same boat!


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Beware Animal Radicals: Endangered Species


----------



## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Jax's Mom said:


> Beware Animal Radicals: Endangered Species


 Good link :thumbup:

I wish i could say that this is surprising but I'm afraid your friend's opinion is more typical than not. She is simply repeating the message that Animal Rights groups have spent years (not to mention millions of dollars) pushing to the American public. This message has become so widespread that the AR groups now barely need to work at getting it out there. The public, media, private companies - even the AVMA are all too happy to push the AR agenda. A perfect example of this is that during Westminster we are reminded at every commercial break that we should adopt a dog from a shelter thanks to Pedigree. They used to feature accomplished breeders in their ads but that simply isn't PC any more. Purebred dogs are bad. Breeders of purebred dogs are bad (and for that matter anyone with an intact animal could possibly become a breeder and as such, they are bad too). Adopting a dog from a shelter is good and the "the right thing to do". If dogs die in shelters, it's your fault. I'm afraid your reply that your breed of choice is "riddled with health problems" only adds fuel to the fire. Expect her to next inform you that mixed breeds are so much healthier than purebreds and genetic health problems are yet another reason you should never support a breeder.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh, I've heard this one before too. Of my seven pets, I've rescued four, adopted one (from a breeder, returned). I also pull GSDs for a local rescue and have volunteered at a local animal shelter walking the big "bad" dogs that other volunteers were uncomfortable with (GSDs, pits, etc). I only don't do that anymore because it's far away and leaving from work I can barely get there before they close. On my web sites I do not link to breeders but always link to the local rescues, shelters, and GSD rescue. Generally the people that preach at me about "killing" rescue dogs are people who have adopted like one pet but don't actually do anything else for shelter/rescue dogs. I currently have two dogs I have purchased from breeders and I never buy into the "a shelter dog died because I purchased a dog" thing. I am very very picky about my German Shepherds and if I don't find what I'm looking for, I don't get a dog, PERIOD. It's not a choice between a breeder or a shelter dog. It's ONLY a choice between finding the exact dog I'm looking for, which a shelter and rescue simply cannot offer.


----------



## Sumik Ranch (Mar 13, 2011)

All Breeders are not evil, there are many responsible ones, but the majority of sheeple will not research a dog as they would a car. 

Think about it, I have asked people who want me to take their dogs, and I have asked them why they didn't get a horse to tie up in the back yard? "cause I dont know anything about horses!?"

It is very "in" to have a dog, and lots of people just pick one cause......

Aloha

Mike


----------



## lanaw13 (Jan 8, 2011)

AggieVet said:


> <rant>
> 
> 
> "You know why I chose a breeder instead of going to a shelter or breed rescue? It's because I love a breed riddled with health problems due to decades back yard breeders. I want a lifetime companion, not a few year friend. That's why I chose a responsible breeder. My family and I have rescued in the plenty (Laika, Angus, Jake, Abel, Fenrir, Lilly, Chloe..I could go on).
> ...


AggieVet,
This is exactly why we chose to buy a puppy…
We went through the agonizing long waiting and approval process for rescue because we had an acquaintance who surrendered he 4 month old puppy to a rescue in Houston….
We found out too late that she had done so, so we called the girl that was fostering the pup and said we would like to adopt her…. she said we had to apply and be approved, which we did, and then we were told ( by an different rescue person) that we could not have a puppy…. not that puppy, not any puppy, because we should adopt one of the adult dogs, since *they* decide which dog is right for us….
Now I truly bless in my heart rescue people for all they do for dogs, please no flames!!!!! I have fostered before and probably will again. After that experience however we decided to purchase a puppy. Here's why: 
We wanted to know the OFA status of the parents…..
We didn't want to adopt a dog that someone *thinks* is right for us….
We want control over the socialization and experiences the puppy has, since we HOPE someday she will be a therapy dog….
I totally understand (send me a friend request)


----------



## Dracnik98 (Mar 3, 2011)

I hear ya! I am a happy GSD owner and always will be! And have been forever- my family has always had GSD's I have had 1 litter myself. I will be getting a new puppy (from a responsible breeder of course) in the near future as a companion for my wife, myself and my 11 year old female GSD. 

Whenever I tell people at work that I am getting a new puppy everyone of them questions why I am getting a dog from a breeder and not a "Shelter Dog" I love all dogs and have rescued in the past. I fully support rescues and shelters all the way; however, right now at this point in my life and for my wifes sake, I need to know what I am getting. 

The Breeders Puppies need homes too!

Some people just do not understand! Why do some people have to force their opinions on us when they have no idea what they are talking about?


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

> I need to know what I am getting.


This line always bugs me as a reason for why a puppy is better than a rescue. When buying from a reputable breeder, chances are you have a good idea of what you are getting but you don't know the puppy's full personality until they are matured at 2-3 yrs old.

With an adult rescue that has been fostered with a reputable rescue, what you see is what you get. Their personality has been fully formed and a reputable rescue will spend weeks (hopefully 3-4 minimum) evaluating the dog and their personality and working out any issues as best they can before making the dog available for adoption.

I'm not arguing one is better than the other (reputable breeder vs rescue) because both have their place. Everyone is entitled to their opinion which is hopefully well informed.


----------



## Dracnik98 (Mar 3, 2011)

If you get a shelter or rescue dog, chances are you will not know the full history of the dog. When one does research, deals with responsible breeders many times you will see the parents, grandparents etc. and get a better feel for what you want. I am more comfortable getting a dog from a breeder.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Sumik Ranch said:


> Think about it, I have asked people who want me to take their dogs, and I have asked them why they didn't get a horse to tie up in the back yard? "cause I dont know anything about horses!?"
> 
> 
> Mike


I had to laugh at this. I actually know at least 3 people who have purchased a horse exactly that way. And it's not uncommon to see them tied up in someone's yard in certain places


----------



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

This girl was someone that was a fellow officer in a school club I was president of, Aggies for Animal *Rescue*. She wasn't so crazy back then, but she got really annoying so I'd blocked her status updates so I wouldn't see them on my facebook.

Then my friends started asking if I'd seen her ones regarding the breeding. They didn't all seem directly coming to just me..but it was still a slap in the face. What's weird too is that she's really not all about animal rights...she's just a shelter nut. I'm super glad she's working to help those animals. But people shouldn't be rude to others who actually do their homework.

I'm glad y'all agree; I just needed a place to rant!


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am sorry that you and your friend are unable to talk this through. I don't think you intended to start a rescue bashing thread but I see that several people have taken the opportunity to do just that. 

The fact is, you never really know what you're getting. You can stack the deck in your favor but that's it. I have quite a few friends who have purchased gsd puppies from truly reputable breeders and ended up with serious health (and a few behavioral) issues. 

And to the OP: I noticed in your other post that the mother of your puppy is 18 months old. I do not believe a reputable breeder would breed a dog who is under 2 years old.


----------



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

I am aware that my breeder is using a young dog. Everything else she does went above and beyond my expectations. For the timing to workout with the type/color/gender/etc of puppy I wanted, this was my best choice. I have half a mind to delete the name of my puppy so people will stop bringing this up to me. I did my research, and I know what I'm getting into.


----------



## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

I have problems with the local rescues due the fact that my yard fails the "home inspection" it's very small. Sure I could have driven four or five hours to a economically depressed area and a high kill shelter but I didn't want to. I wanted a dog under two; hopefully that had not been too screwed up from lack of socialization. Those under socialized dogs can be re-habed, but sometimes the window is closed on them as far as being an urban pet.
The upside of that is that I have literally bomb-proof dog. I must walk her every day. Twice and a run when she was younger; she sees lots of people as I live a urban area, loud motorcycles, loud rap music, the county hospital is 1/2 mile away. She even got to sit in a Sheriff's car...now she thinks they all will do that for her.

My paid for pup has seen more in four years than most rescued dogs
that never leave the large plush yard and get fed crap dog food.

I'm still under the opinion that many rescue groups border on "animal hoarding"

*that is harsh sorry, just my opinion***


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have a lot of problems with the way some rescues run their adoptions, but from this forum I'm getting that many of them are the urban rescues rather than the rural ones. Problem is I live in a city and only get to deal with the first kind. It's true that in my current situation most rescues wouldn't have let me have a GSD, or any large dog for that matter. I live in an apartment, and no amount of convincing them that I would do everything I could to give this dog a great life would've convinced them otherwise, since for some reason, a yard is the only thing a dog needs.

I completely respect people that only adopt dogs, and people that are able to foster. I hope to foster one day, but right now it looks like it will take another few years because I'll need to be in my own home, with a huge yard, to ever foster a dog that would be compatable with my GSD. I've never ran into anyone that has had any problems with me having a purebred GSD even though most of the people I run into have adopted a shelter dog. Hopefully it never happens, I really don't know how I would react to someone attacking me about purchasing a dog, but I bet it wouldn't be pretty.

And to the OP, I've learned to never post where you're getting your dog from on here, unless you're sure that they pass every single test and preferrably from a breeder on this forum. For every 1 person that calls your dog super cute, there will be 3 that point out the short comings of your breeder and just make you feel like crap about your decision. Delete away lol.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

CarrieJ said:


> I wanted a dog under two; hopefully that had not been too screwed up from lack of socialization. Those under socialized dogs can be re-habed, but sometimes the window is closed on them as far as being an urban pet.
> The upside of that is that I have literally bomb-proof dog.
> 
> ....
> ...


 I'll just address your "opinions" above:

1) Lots of rescued dogs are bomb-proof. I've had 3 bomb proof rescues, including my current dog, Rafi, who I adopted at age 1.5. Basu and Kai both had major fear issues but I adopted them knowing that they needed rehab. Incidentally, Basu was purchased from a reputable breeder by a doctor. His owners screwed him up, not his genetics. 

All of my dogs have lived in the city and all have learned to deal with it. Massie moved to the city when she was 7 and had zero issues. Rafi is equally comfortable and reliable in the city and the country. We routinely get charged by aggressive off leash dogs and Rafi doesn't even bat an eyelash. He is off leash trained and will recall under any circumstances, including the close proximity of deer or other animals (and he has very high prey drive). He will walk, off leash, next to me past reactive german shepherds (we see lots of those, unfortunately). He is excellent with all people, appropriately protective and excellent with other dogs and cats. 

He certainly didn't come with that training but he and I have worked together on everything, just as I have done with all of my other dogs. 

2) I have no idea where you got the idea that rescued dogs get stuck out in the yard and are fed "crap food?" Or are treated any differently than dogs who are bought?  

3) I also have no idea where your "opinion" that "many rescue groups border on 'animal hoarding' " comes from. 

Is that because the rescue organizations have multiple dogs? Extending that logic, that would mean that many breeders fall into the same category, right?  

Again, to the OP: you claim to support rescues (and have a rescued dog yourself) but you have started a thread where people are quite comfortably bashing rescues. Perhaps you might re-consider your purpose in starting this thread?

And to those of you who object to people's scrutiny of breeding practices: I suggest you consider the experience of many of those posters. Many have been breeding and/or training german shepherds for more years than you've been walking and talking. I suspect you could learn quite a bit from them if you were open to doing so.


----------



## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

Here's a good point to tell her. Tell her to be angry at the former owner who made an impulsive decision to adopt a dog and then abandon it after they realized that it was more trouble than they wanted to go to. that is the person who was irresponsible and made a bad judgment call. It is the fault of people who decide to purchase and or adopt and then change their minds when it is no longer a cute puppy anymore. They didnt take the time out of their day to train their new puppy and teach then where to go potty and what not to crawl on or chew. Not the fault of the dog breeder who maintains accurate record keeping and works to keep their dog's environments clean and healthy. Not the fault of the breeder who carefully screens breeding candidates for the best qualities to pass on their dogs genetic health and vitality weeding out candidates with genetic defects usually at a personal financial loss. some people need to shut up until they are better educated.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

AggieVet said:


> I am aware that my breeder is using a young dog. Everything else she does went above and beyond my expectations. For the timing to workout with the type/color/gender/etc of puppy I wanted, this was my best choice. I have half a mind to delete the name of my puppy so people will stop bringing this up to me. I did my research, and I know what I'm getting into.


Well, you did already put it out on the internet so it's too late! 

Unfortunately I think most people on here would disagree with your thoughts on that breeder. You do have to start wondering if a lot of people are bringing it up. Not the only issue that could probably be highlighted.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Actually what this entire issue comes down to it personl choice ant the RIGHT to make a personal choice. 

Want a good read on this issue? Read David Fritsche new book. Available on Amazon.

"Death of a Culture, Understanding the War: Animal Rights vs Animal Welfare"

Excellent book, I just finished it. Mr. Fritsche is the President of the Reno Nevada GSD Club, he is also a breeder of GSD's and has been involved with the breed (since 1954) for longer than I have been alive. He is a retired minister and part time police officer.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't mind being educated on the issue, but in this situtation it sounds like OP is already educated and understands the issue. Its their choice to purchase a puppy. Now if someone was going to buy a dog and had completely wrong information about what a shelter dog could be then there would be an opportunity to teach. It's the whole attack that really gets to me, just no need to force your opinion on anyone. Some people need to realize that others get dogs for different reasons, and the main one isn't always companion. If you really want to work with your dog then you kind of have to go through a breeder, and yes there will be posts about people adopting dogs and doing agility and SchH and whatever else. But the fact remains that its easier/more of a guarantee to do it through a breeder.

In regards to the breeder decision, yes people have more experience, but 5 or 10 posts about a bad decision is one thing. When it starts getting brought up in other threads for no reason or when 30 people point out the same thing when the 29 before them said it its another. How would you feel if every person you talked to decided to point out how bad one of your decisions is? If someone doesn't get it by the 10th time they won't change their mind by the 30th.


----------



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> Unfortunately I think most people on here would disagree with your thoughts on that breeder. You do have to start wondering if a lot of people are bringing it up. Not the only issue that could probably be highlighted.


I didn't ask for opinions on her. And I don't regret my decision. When I went through a check list of what made up a responsible breeder, I found one fault. For me to find a breeder in the location I wanted, with parents with the temperment I wanted, with parents I was attracted to, with the preliminary testing I wanted, with a dog the color and gender I wanted, with the puppy stimulation and socialization I wanted, with the ability to work like I wanted, and happening at the exact same time as I NEEDED ...this was the best for me. I don't know why people can't choose to respect that.

I don't go around looking for kennels that people have their animals from and negatively commenting on them. It's rude. Wait til someone asks about it. 

My Papillon, though rescued, came previously from a place that took show lines and breed them at the first heat cycle and every one after that. There was no testing done for degenerative retinal atrophy, and no family history to look at patellas. THAT is a bad breeder..it's a puppy mill. And knowing where she had come from, I still chose to rescue her. I don't take anything when it comes to my children lightly. I do my research. Maybe there's some other reason you don't like my breeder and that's fine. But I do like her and wish that people would respect that.


----------



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Yes, I agree, I hope everyone can respect that and move on.

But I just wanted to add that everyone here just has your best interest at heart. At least that's how I see it. No one is faulting you for your choice.
We all love our dogs and just want the best for them, and in the end, that's all that matters.

I wish you many many years of happiness with Loki and am eagerly awaiting the day you bring him home.


----------



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> Again, to the OP: you claim to support rescues (and have a rescued dog yourself) but you have started a thread where people are quite comfortably bashing rescues. Perhaps you might re-consider your purpose in starting this thread?
> 
> And to those of you who object to people's scrutiny of breeding practices: I suggest you consider the experience of many of those posters. Many have been breeding and/or training german shepherds for more years than you've been walking and talking. I suspect you could learn quite a bit from them if you were open to doing so.



Why would I ever start a thread to bash rescues? That's ridiculous, and it's unfortunate that anyone felt the need to do that. The thread was started to share my grief of people _shoving their opinions down my throat_. 

I'm all for opinions as long as their nice, constructive, and in context. 

If I wanted a dog to do anything other than be a companion and therapy dog, yeah I would have chosen another breeder. I'd love to hobby breed someday way, way down the line, and I'm learning a lot about that now from those experienced people. But I'm not going to learn anything from people being rude and pushy.

I'm done with this thread. It was intended for exactly the opposite of what it's become. Really unfortunate.


----------



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

GSDGunner said:


> Yes, I agree, I hope everyone can respect that and move on.
> 
> But I just wanted to add that everyone here just has your best interest at heart. At least that's how I see it. No one is faulting you for your choice.
> We all love our dogs and just want the best for them, and in the end, that's all that matters.
> ...


Thanks, and I appreciate that. I think they want to educate and help me out too, I just don't think that's the way to go about it. I'm already invested in this puppy (emotionally and monetarily). Now's not the time.

Ok...on to happier threads.


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I can't speak for everyone but I know I give my opinion when not asked or off topic when I see practices that I highly disagree with because I do not want people to think that it is stuff that is common not considered "acceptable." You brought up your breeder and their practices specifically, not someone else.....that is perfectly fine that you are getting a dog from them, but it is not exactly ideal to breed an 18 month old non health cleared, non titled dog.


----------



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Listen, not everyone was harsh or mean. You did not start a rescue bashing thread. That's obvious.
Nobody was damning you for your choice of breeder and I think if you re-read the thread you'll see that.
How the thread got to rescue bashing is NOT your fault. So don't get upset.
This is still a great place to get advice and I've seen you give some as well and I know it's much appreciated.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I know I often make comments of the sort that may be seen as critical (like pointing out that breeding a 1.5 year old is not considered reputable) - not so much to bash, because as adults, we can all choose where we get our dogs from, and really, it isn't anyone's business but our own, but to educate. People forget that there may be a dozen registered active members participating in the thread, and they may all agree or disagree, but often, if you check board statistics, then can be _hundreds_ of non-registered members reading the threads, current ones like this one, or older archieved posts. 

If twenty people came on the thread and not wanting to upset the posters all say : Congrats!! Excellent choice, pups will be wonderful (and they probably will be), that gives the wrong impression that breeding under-aged, non-OFA'd, dogs is okay, when much of the purpose of the board is to educate. 

So often posters take the comments very personally, when the comments where really aimed at a larger, more general public.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> I know I often make comments of the sort that may be seen as critical (like pointing out that breeding a 1.5 year old is not considered reputable) - not so much to bash, because as adults, we can all choose where we get our dogs from, and really, it isn't anyone's business but our own, but to educate. People forget that there may be a dozen registered active members participating in the thread, and they may all agree or disagree, but often, if you check board statistics, then can be _hundreds_ of non-registered members reading the threads, current ones like this one, or older archieved posts.
> 
> If twenty people came on the thread and not wanting to upset the posters all say : Congrats!! Excellent choice, pups will be wonderful (and they probably will be), that gives the wrong impression that breeding under-aged, non-OFA'd, dogs is okay, when much of the purpose of the board is to educate.
> 
> So often posters take the comments very personally, when the comments where really aimed at a larger, more general public.


:thumbup: Excellent post!


----------



## AggieVet (Feb 25, 2011)

I agree with what y'all are saying. I just felt personally attacked...which I suppose I shouldn't have. I'm happy with where my puppy is coming from. I do agree that the dog should be older. But she has had her hips looked at by their vet who sees no problems. And I don't care about the parents being titled since I'm not using my dog for anything like schutzhund or breeding. I haven't been able to find somewhere else that has met all of my requirements (save age), so I don't regret this.

Thank you for educating, and I hope we can all just move past and continue to have fun here.


----------



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

If I had a nickel for every time someone told me my choice to buy a dog squarely puts the death of three shelter animals on my shoulders, i'd be rich


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

hunterisgreat said:


> If I had a nickel for every time someone told me my choice to buy a dog squarely puts the death of three shelter animals on my shoulders, i'd be rich


You could use those nickels to buy more purebred dogs... that would place the blame back on the PETAs


----------



## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

Unfortunately there are "radicals" in every cause pushing their uneducated beliefs on others. 
Good, responsible breeders are necessary for the betterment of the breed, in may facets of use.
What is unnecessary is irresponsible breeders putting terribly bred puppies into homes of irresponsible people. Often times people are turned down by rescue for a reason and these same people will then go to a BYB and buy a pup. 
6 months-1 year later same pup ends up in a shelter somewhere until hopefully a rescue steps in a pulls it out.
See the vicious cycle 
Cut out the weeds and what you are left with is green grass. 

But with good there is always bad. Bad rescues, bad breeder, bad people. It's what we do after the bad that counts


----------



## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

AggieVet said:


> What's weird too is that she's really not all about animal rights...she's just a shelter nut.


 She may not claim to be an AR supporter but she is certainly supporting their agenda and spreading their propaganda. Actions speak louder than words.

As for buying a puppy from an 18 month old vs a 24 month old bitch, it's not like the breeder is trying to hide their choice to do this. Not everyone will agree with it of course but then, there are rarely breeding choices that everyone can agree on. The constant fault finding with breeders on internet message boards gets to be a bit much at a point. Every breeder out there is doing something that a group of people on an internet forum could disagree with. At a point, the breeder bashing starts to send a bad message about breeders in general. Breeding is not black and white, there is really no "checklist" for an ideal breeder. Finding the right breeder largely depends on what the puppy buyer's priorities are. A "good" vs. "bad" breeder is largely depends on personal ideals and priorities.


----------



## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> A "good" vs. "bad" breeder is largely depends on personal ideals and priorities.


I disagree, there is a definite "checklist" when researching "good" vs "bad" breeders. "Personal ideals and priorities" should be at the end of that list, well before health, temperament, practices, etc.


----------



## firfly (Mar 6, 2011)

valreegrl said:


> I disagree, there is a definite "checklist" when researching "good" vs "bad" breeders. "Personal ideals and priorities" should be at the end of that list, well before health, temperament, practices, etc.


Agree, standards are set for the breed people like it or not. It is black and white, there are reasons.


----------



## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

firfly said:


> Agree, standards are set for the breed people like it or not. It is black and white, there are reasons.


 In your opinion. Breeding really isn't that simple though.


----------

