# Breeding my German Shepherd



## Mckenzie.H (Apr 22, 2014)

​Okay I'm breeding my German Shepherd, she is currently still a puppy but she is planned to become a mother with a cream and tan Sire, which is 7 weeks old. I don't know what the out come of the looks of the puppies will be, and I hope for long hair. The father of the female is about long hair but still alot long than the mothers- very short and thin. Any help here?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There is way more to planning litters than color/coat. What would make the puppies that you have now breedworthy? Do you have pedigree information on either one of them?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html and many other links in the breeding forum are worth taking the time to read.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Have you talked with your puppy's breeder? What is his/her opinion of this match? Have they explained all the steps that you need to take with this pup if you want a quality breeding?


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

read and learn...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

These two aren't named Thor and Victoria are they?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I hope you aren't in a hurry. The boy should be about 2 years old or older, so you have plenty of time to learn a lot about the whole process, about bloodlines, and the standard, about genetics and how the colors/coats actually work -- though these are the last things that should be considered in a breeding. 

There is a lot to take into consideration, like finding the best homes for your pups, and what you can do now to give them the best chance, sort of stack the deck in their favor so to speak when it comes to finding good homes. 

You will hear a lot of crap on these threads about who should breed and why you should breed dogs or not breed dogs. I am only going to say that it can break your heart, when you realize through your action or inaction you failed to keep a puppy alive, or when you lose a bitch that you love because something went wrong and you did not know the signs, because your vet said something and you did not know enough to walk out, discard their advice and rush the dog/pups to a specialist. 

So stick around in the forum and read everything, specifically the threads on breeding. Try to get past snarky comments and attitudes, and be open-minded rather than defensive. And hopefully, by the time your puppy is old enough, you will be in a better place to make the best choices for your dogs.


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## Cara Fusinato (May 29, 2011)

Dear poster -- it's a really really complicated thing to breed healthy dogs and then find homes for them so they never end up unwanted and scared and put to death in shelters. Please start learning about everything involved before you make any decisions on it. It's just a very very big committment and like said, can be heartbreaking.

Some things to think about. If you want to make money, you have to have one heck of an operation with titled animals and expensive parent dogs and lots of testing for health (eyes, elbows, hips, and several more things you don't even realize are a problem). Most of these tests have to be done 2-3 years and involve vets doing some pricey tests. Your dog and the other dog gentically need to be a good combo mentally and physically. You have to study pedigrees for that as well as the pesonalities of both dogs. You want to produce puppies that are physically healthy and mentally sound or they will end up abandoned. What if your dog needs a C-section? To save mom and pups can be a couple thousand dollars. Plus pups have to be vet checked and given shots which is expensive. Can you handle pups that don't make it? It is heartbreaking to deliver a little one and it doesn't survive. Do you have time to tube/bottle feed if momma can't? Then you have to find a way to advertise. Does your area have restrictions on that? Mine does. You have to have a license on the mom and give that number in ads and if you have too many litters or dogs there are problems there with the county and fines. You have to watch out because people hunt the ads to buy bait dogs for fighting training and also for medical testing and such. They really know how to fake you out too. You also have to know how to socialize puppies and start them out right from the beginning so they are mentally stable. What if you sell a puppy and someone thinks it is sick and wants you to take it back and give them their money back? What will you do with a sick puppy or one a pet owner totally screwed up with lack of care? Someone I know on the sheltie board had this scenario. She spent thousands to fix up a pup of hers that had been mistreated and neglected and had mental and physical issues from that. What if you can't sell your puppies? Do you keep them? Will you take them back in 5 years when the families flake out and call you hysterical that they lost their job, home, etc. and if you don't take the dog they have to take it to the shelter? 

I wish it were all as simple as having two really great dogs produce a bunch of great healthy puppies that people are waiting in line for and will take care of for their whole long healthy lives, but it isn't like that and it is not fair to create little souls without offering them great lives. The pet overpopulation problem is SO huge. It's important if one decides to breed to make sure that for no reason the puppies end up in that system.

Not judging, not being mean, just pointing out so many things that make breeding dogs, especially a challenging breed like GSD's, just not as fun as it sounds. 

Best wishes with your pet and your decision.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Cara Fusinato said:


> Dear poster -- it's a really really complicated thing to breed healthy dogs and then find homes for them so they never end up unwanted and scared and put to death in shelters. Please start learning about everything involved before you make any decisions on it. It's just a very very big committment and like said, can be heartbreaking.
> 
> Some things to think about. If you want to make money, you have to have one heck of an operation with titled animals and expensive parent dogs and lots of testing for health (eyes, elbows, hips, and several more things you don't even realize are a problem). Most of these tests have to be done 2-3 years and involve vets doing some pricey tests. Your dog and the other dog gentically need to be a good combo mentally and physically. You have to study pedigrees for that as well as the pesonalities of both dogs. You want to produce puppies that are physically healthy and mentally sound or they will end up abandoned. What if your dog needs a C-section? To save mom and pups can be a couple thousand dollars. Plus pups have to be vet checked and given shots which is expensive. Can you handle pups that don't make it? It is heartbreaking to deliver a little one and it doesn't survive. Do you have time to tube/bottle feed if momma can't? Then you have to find a way to advertise. Does your area have restrictions on that? Mine does. You have to have a license on the mom and give that number in ads and if you have too many litters or dogs there are problems there with the county and fines. You have to watch out because people hunt the ads to buy bait dogs for fighting training and also for medical testing and such. They really know how to fake you out too. You also have to know how to socialize puppies and start them out right from the beginning so they are mentally stable. What if you sell a puppy and someone thinks it is sick and wants you to take it back and give them their money back? What will you do with a sick puppy or one a pet owner totally screwed up with lack of care? Someone I know on the sheltie board had this scenario. She spent thousands to fix up a pup of hers that had been mistreated and neglected and had mental and physical issues from that. What if you can't sell your puppies? Do you keep them? Will you take them back in 5 years when the families flake out and call you hysterical that they lost their job, home, etc. and if you don't take the dog they have to take it to the shelter?
> 
> ...


Great post :thumbup:

I feel that anyone that wants to start breeding should first visit some shelters, rescues to see how many dogs end up there  I recently found this organization on FB "German Shepherds on Death Row" and it's absolutely heartbreaking. https://www.facebook.com/savinggsds


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

If you are serious about becoming a breeder (even breeding 1 time means you are a breeder) then you need to start working or showing your dog and get your dog titled. Do all the proper health testing (hips/elbows/etc) and find a reputable breeder in your area that will tell you if your GSD is of breeding quality. If your dog is a good representation of the breed then hopefully the reputable breeder will take you under his/her wing and teach you all he/she knows about bloodlines, correct breed temperment, correct breed structure and whelping a litter.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Where's the "should I breed my dog" flowchart?


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Freestep said:


> Where's the "should I breed my dog" flowchart?


It's in the first response to this thread.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't believe this poster is serious.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I do,because I saw the same type of post on a facebook page. That is why I asked about the names of the puppies. The fb posts were deleted by the poster because the poster was questioned about the breeding goals and took it as bashing.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> I don't believe this poster is serious.


I believe the OP is serious. Breeding for long coated GSD may be wonderful in your mind, it's not the standard. In 1993 when I first got married, I paired my female to my male that were both suited for each other from a professional breeder of 40 years, suited as a good match, Sable male Maximillian (tall American with a wonderful top line and the best hips ) Veronika Blk. Tan tough as nails 50% east/west german imported female dam AKC. I must tell you it can be heartbreaking, even with professional help. One falls behind.. 

_Are you ready to sit up nights nursing the animal to get him or her to survive with the time and dollars it takes, or take the easy way out._

Make up your mind well in advance, living with that choice 40 more years may change your mind about puppies and coats..


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## Mckenzie.H (Apr 22, 2014)

Yes, I have information on both dogs and both are registered. The breeders both have breeding rights and will allow it. I've had many GSD but I just haven't breed them alot and I suspect that all of them will be kept.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

You're going to keep 6-8 puppies?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Merciel said:


> It's in the first response to this thread.


It's too much work to click a link.


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## Storm695 (Jul 28, 2014)

*Breeder*








 I have a gsd who is now 3 weeks pregnat when can you tell how many puppies she will have.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

ask your veterinarian
you should have been consulting with him or her all along


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It's better to start your own thread. 

The answer is dependent on how you will determine. I think that you can find heart beats with ultrasound by 4 weeks -- could be wrong about that, though. And it is very difficult to get an accurate count that way, at least that young.

If you are waiting to do an x-ray, you should wait until the bones are calcified, usually it is best to wait until about the 56th day -- from ovulation, not from the breeding date. At this point the pups are better formed so you will be able to get a decent head count etc, also with proper procedure, they say the x-ray will not be harmful to the puppy's development, but they make the humans wear lead aprons or stay out of the area, so the older the pups are the better. Too young, you will not see them properly anyway.

Gestation is 9 weeks from ovulation -- not breeding date. The majority of the growth is in the third trimester, and for much of the pregnancy a bitch's system can resorb a puppy. Which means, if something happens to the puppy, or the bitch aborts due to stress or what have you, she may or may not resorb the dead pup or puppies. Which means, she could have been pregnant at 4 weeks along and not be pregnant at 9 weeks. 

Best to wait.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

my boy diesel said:


> ask your veterinarian
> you should have been consulting with him or her all along


Could you elaborate on this? Could you please say why a veterinarian should have been consulted all along?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I removed a whole wack of posts that were completely UN-helpful and insulting to the OP. 

I am NOT impressed by the arrogance of some posters. EDUCATE, and use your time on the 'net wisely to help others, sarcasm does not make you out to be somewhat better than another. 

ADMIN. 

(Is there a full moon coming up or something? Lots of RUDE posts lately . . . )


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

selzer the vet should have been consulted pre-breeding to have the necessary health tests done and at the very least to rule out brucellosis
should one not have a working relationship with their vet when going into a breeding program?
what if the bitch needs a c section when she starts whelping??
anyway if storm asked their veterinarian how to tell how many puppies there will be the veterinarian will explain how - and when-- that is determined i am sure


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

my boy diesel said:


> selzer the vet should have been consulted pre-breeding to have the necessary health tests done and at the very least to rule out brucellosis
> should one not have a working relationship with their vet when going into a breeding program?
> what if the bitch needs a c section when she starts whelping??
> anyway if storm asked their veterinarian how to tell how many puppies there will be the veterinarian will explain how - and when-- that is determined i am sure


Brucellosis testing is often required when the breeder goes outside their own breeding animals and uses an outside stud. It does not need to be done. It is something breeders do to protect their animals from outside infections. It is a simple blood test, and not something you need to consult a vet for. You can take the dog to the vet clinic and tell them you want the dog tested for brucellosis and they draw the blood, send it out, and relay the results. 

Testing for genetic diseases is often done at a specialist or a different vet who is known to throw good prints. Again, it is not something you consult your vet for. You go to the clinic and say that you want them to do OFA Hips, Elbows, Thyroid, Cardiac, etc. The vet does not tell you what you should test for, they will show you the x-rays and give the opinion and then give their projection for what the OFA will say. But this should definitely be done prior to the bitch being in heat. 

Once the bitch is in heat, there is no need to consult a veterinarian at all. If it makes you feel better, you can call your vet and let them know when your bitch is likely to whelp. If you suspect issues, you can do progesterone testing to pin point the exact time of ovulation. But don't rely on anything.

You can do all that, and then after your bitch is definitely having issues, and you call to say you are bringing her in, THEN they tell you the vet that can do the surgery is out of town. So you have to scramble anyway.

And, you can go back and back and back for progesterone testing. And when the date of the C-section comes up, you call to set it up, and your vet then tells you they need more progesterone testing. The one vet said, they do not ovulate all at once -- well, that isn't what Dr. Hutch says -- 12 hours. Seems they did not continue to test until she ovulated, but only until she had one of her surges, and then MOST bitches will ovulate within.... So you go back and go back, for more progesterone testing, and you STILL have to scramble at the end and go to the other place for the C-section because your vet still isn't certain about the timing.

I would have been better off, leaving the vet totally out of it, and just going off the the farther place when labor started -- she needs c-sections. 

And if there is no reason to think the bitch will need a c-section, you can do all the progesterone testing. But it is unnecessary. 

The breeding to whelping process, as well as the raising of puppies can all be done without the help or consultation of the vet. And if there is a problem, then no amount of consulting a vet in advance is going to chance the fact that you need a vet now. If there is a problem, you need a vet. 

To determine whether the bitch is pregnant or the number of pups, you need to go to the vet. This is not necessary. Many breeders swear by it though. Other breeders think that the testing and stress and exposure is harmful. If the bitch is pregnant, she will whelp or she will show signs of trouble, at which time, they will x-ray, they will ultra-sound, they will do progesterone testing if you take her to the right place.

Should a breeder have a working relationship with a vet to go into a breeding program? Why? Are vets suddenly knowledgeable about specific breeds, their lines and their genetics? Are they experts about which animals should be bred and which should not. If I told you some of the stuff vets have told me, like -- well, yes we could x-ray her hips, but you can tell she doesn't have a problem, having the hips x-rayed only means you can ask more for the puppies. Yeah, No. The vet is not one that you need a working relationship with to go into a breeding program. To own a pet -- yes, good idea. Good idea if they accept that you are somewhat knowledgeable, but not for breeding advice.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

well and then there are all the things that go wrong like bitch dies because an afterbirth was retained
or a puppy was retained
or she gets an infection after they are born
doesnt produce enough milk
gets an infection in her breast
the list goes on and on

but i suppose all your dogs whelp just fine on their own then selzer?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

my boy diesel said:


> well and then there are all the things that go wrong like bitch dies because an afterbirth was retained
> or a puppy was retained
> or she gets an infection after they are born
> doesnt produce enough milk
> ...


According to Dr. Hutch, they usually won't have a problem if an afterbirth is retained. I have never counted placentas. Usually the bitches eat them while the pup is coming out. And the bitch's body does usually reabsorb what is left within. 

I have had dogs drip for an ungodly amount of time after a whelping. But no, there is nothing the vet does about that. By the time you might have problems because of a retained puppy or placenta, it is too late for a clean out shot. Some people like the clean out shots, others do not -- they can be terribly dangerous without checking first for a stuck puppy. I don't like them. 

Yeah, I have needed c-sections with Odie. But, no, no infections, the milk has always been fine, even with the litter of 10, no need to supplement. I have worried about the milk quality, but it wasn't a problem. If you supplement with calcium and then break that off, you are likely to have milk fever, calcium deficinency than if you let nature run its course. 

I haven't had a problem in a mammary gland. I have seen the pictures in the book. I do not mess with her teets when she is lactating and I have never had a problem with them. Could happen. I know what to look for. 

The point is, the vets have NEVER, EVER given any sort of a crash course in what might go wrong or what to watch for. I guess it is up to you to get a book and figure it out, and if you have any questions about problems you are experiencing it is time to consult a vet. 

If you just say, "Hi Dr. ---- , we're in the family way. We should have puppies on such and such of a date. " He's going to say, "Good, call me if you have any problems." And unless there is a serious problem in the works, he isn't going to give you his home number. 

It's not like having a baby where they measure the belly, and take your weight and do ultra sounds and determine the sex, and make sure that everything is going right and you are taking the right vitamins.


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