# Questions about Club Membership-Advice Needed!



## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

So my club right now is facing some financial constraints with the upcoming year. Like many other clubs, we have annual dues, paid in two installments. This gives the club members full access to our training building and field, equipment, and covers any helper fees.

Although we have a good handful of members, many of them pay their dues, come for a few weeks, and then disappear. I personally train every session, unless it's cancelled, and haven't seen some of our "members" in _months._ And I mean like, between 6 and 12 months...I know that since they paid their dues, they technically can come whenever they want, but it's pretty unimpressive to prospective club guests to see that only 4 or 5 people show up each week, and it's the same people every time..

That being said, I also think that our "initiation" into the club is far too extreme and outdated, and is a big reason as to why we haven't had more members join..

Our policy is that you are registered as a "guest member" for the first 6 months of joining the club. You pay a set fee at each training session, and are required to attend 50% of the time (we have club twice a week). At the end of the 6 months, the members at club vote on your membership based on progress you have made and the level of commitment to the club.

I think this is our biggest problem. I am totally against this. Reason being (as stated above), most "members" _don't even come half of the time!_ I haven't even met some people listed as "members" and I've been a "member" now for almost a year! Yet these are the people get to vote on who gets to join or not? How could they possibly know the prospective members progress or level of commitment or anything about them if they have never/hardly met the person? Right?

I personally think that changing these rules around will open doors to new members. Financially, we need more people, but the whole initiation factor turns a lot of people away. The weekly guest fee can really add up. Being voted in by people you have never met can be intimidating. And personally, if you are a real "member", then I think that _everyone_ should be attenting at least 50% of the time. If you can't come at least 4 times in a whole month, then you should be considered a "guest" as well, and pay the weekly fee. 

I would like to approach my club officers with these concerns before the start of the new year. Am I overreacting? Are these "rules" normal? How would you approach the situation?

Thanks!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I can't help with suggestions but I can say your reasoning about the voting and new membership is a turn off.

The problem being, as you rightly point out, it's often not based on pure meritocracy.

Good luck,hope things work out for your club.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Hard to change these kinds of things depending on your bylaws. Our club has to have a quarum, which is a lot to change anything in the bylaws and because there are so many members that don't come to meetings its pretty much impossible to change something in there. At my GSD club we are "associate members" for a year, and then we get voted in to being "full members" but you get the same perks and you pay the same amount. There is no per training session fee. Don't know why they do this quite yet, since I am still an associate member.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I don't know if your rules have anything to do with it, I think it's just a sport wide thing. I've been in a few groups because of moving and sometimes I just go train with other people I know, and it's similiar all over. 

They have a good core ranging from 3 to 10 people that train regularly depending on the area, a bunch of others that have joined, but no longer show up, and a regular stream of new people wanting to join that show up anywhere from a a month to a year then disappear again either before or after they've joined.

My last club had 2 of us that trained regularly at least twice a week and about 5 could be counted on showing up every weekend, and another 5 -7 that came about 1-2 times per month.

My current club has 5 that show up weekly, and a few others that show up randomly and a flow of guests that range from none to 5 in any given week.

I think some politics keep people way, maybe some club rules, but mostly I think they're just excuses. It's hard work, it's not a 6 weeks and get a certificate training. it's a commitment, it takes years for most people to see a trial field if ever and most people don't have it as a priority. The thought of it is cool to a lot of people, but putting in the time, well, it's tougher than most want to do. even me sometimes.

I don't think what you're experiencing is abnormal among the clubs at all.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

This is one reason why my current club split off from the "paper club" that was affiliated. It just got too complicated creating bylaws and then adhering to them and having all these policies and procedures. Now, we just pay by the month and if you don't want to show up, oh well you already paid. The vast majority of the time, when people don't come they have good reasons and since they have already paid in advance they have weighed the "cost" of not attending. If someone just stops showing up, eventually we give them a call to see what's up, but since we don't have any official procedures for becoming a member or leaving the club, all we really have to do is add/remove people from our closed Facebook group which is where we announce training times and locations and discuss events that are only open to the club. The original club had everything you describe - initiation fees, different levels of membership and requirements for how often you have attend, penalty fees, you name it. It was originally intended to protect the club but really it just got out of hand trying to enforce and agree on and eventually the club split (for other reasons as well) but the new faction I am with is just more of an in-or-out policy. You can come a few times and try it out but then you are either paying the full dues or not. Since we are no longer affiliated with any organization we have no by-laws, just some training rules that are pretty normal (dogs must be crated, visitors cannot video/photograph, no alcohol on the training grounds since we don't own them, etc).


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys. I just wonder if there is any way to possibly change the whole "initiation" things without messing with the by laws. We need more members to financially support the club. I think more would join if it weren't so complicated and expensive for the first six months. And maybe they wouldn't turn around when they heard that that their membership is determined by people that they've never met..

If nothing changes soon, we will probably have to break off into another group such as yours, Liesje. Especially if the club now is already at risk of going bankrupt..


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

GatorDog said:


> Our policy is that you are registered as a "guest member" for the first 6 months of joining the club. You pay a set fee at each training session, and are required to attend 50% of the time (we have club twice a week). At the end of the 6 months, the members at club vote on your membership based on progress you have made and the level of commitment to the club.
> 
> !


I think the 6 months guest membership isn't unreasonable, actually. I do think it's kind of crazy to pay per session. You should just make a "guest member" flat fee for the 6 months. I also don't think that it's unreasonable to say you need to attend 50% of the trainings. It could be they are trying to avoid future issues like the ones you are currently having where people never show up. I also don't think it's unreasonable to be voted in, although the progress thing is kind of odd. Maybe I'm the lone person here, but I come from the SAR world where there is mandatory attendance and a probation period a lot longer than 6 months. 


I think 6 months is a good time frame so everyone can determine if you'll be a good fit for each other. It should just be black and white though--you attend 50% of the trainings and aren't fighting with people, then you can be a member.

Flat fee: Whatever 6 months of being a member would be + $X amount extra? I guess what is reasonable would depend on what your current fees are. For my club it's $200 a year, plus $500 in field fees (we have a 40 acres to work on, including lots of places to track that are maintained, a full SchH field w/ blinds, and a heated indoor barn so I think it's fairly reasonable). So for us, 6 months would be $350....so $400 or so would be fair I think in our instance.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah I think that the per training session fee is a big part of what can keep someone away. Once you've paid, you want to go and get your money's worth. I like going as much as I can and getting my per training session fee down to as little as possible. I go to my GSD club about 3 times a week. There are days though were I don't feel like going and still get up and go. If I had to pay, even like $10 for the session, I might pick otherwise. Funny, but it makes a difference knowing that I'm "losing" money that I have already paid by not going. Where as if I didn't lose anything by not going, then what's the big deal.

I don't know how well another club would do, maybe an initiation process change will help but if this club can't afford to stay in operation what makes you think a smaller more select club would. Not sure how involved you are with the finances of the club, and how much you know about the costs of running it, but maybe you're right about that. Don't overestimate the amount of people that would be ok with a fee increase, suprisingly if someone is paying a set amount for years, they don't want to increase it just to do the same thing.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I wouldn't be upset about the people who aren't showing up and who are paying their dues-they obviously voted you in...actually if I were you I would be grateful to them...


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Our club has a few hardcore members really trying to make a go of it. The rest are just having fun, or trying to make a BH or SchH1 before the dog is geriatric


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

holland said:


> I wouldn't be upset about the people who aren't showing up and who are paying their dues-they obviously voted you in...actually if I were you I would be grateful to them...


I really do like most of the members in club a great deal. The issue now is that they don't want to vote some new people in because they haven't personally met them, which is their fault because they don't come to club anymore..

I also like the 6 month guest membership time frame because it helps to weed out those who are serious and those who are not. But the guest fee is $20 per session and I know that I had a really hard time keeping up with that. Even if you come once a week, that is still $80 a month, times 6 months adds up to $480 for 6 months. Seems really ridiculous considering the yearly fee is only $300 for members. I know for a fact that many people interested can not afford that and that's whats causing people to turn away.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GatorDog said:


> I also like the 6 month guest membership time frame because it helps to weed out those who are serious and those who are not. But the guest fee is $20 per session and I know that I had a really hard time keeping up with that. Even if you come once a week, that is still $80 a month, times 6 months adds up to $480 for 6 months. Seems really ridiculous considering the yearly fee is only $300 for members. I know for a fact that many people interested can not afford that and that's whats causing people to turn away.


 Better be a ___ nice facility for that kind of money! Wowza.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wildo said:


> Better be a ___ nice facility for that kind of money! Wowza.


LOL! It gets the job done, but I personally don't think it's quite worth that amount. I mean, I would love to give our helper as much money as I could because he really is an amazing guy. He's also our training director and he does a fantastic job...but not almost $500 worth for only 6 months..


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Training groups are easier. No bylaws, no insurance, and no having to put on trials, seminars, shows and/or helper classifications. Luckily there are people willing to deal with the hassles or we would not have any place to trial our dogs. 

My club has an approximately 3 month application time frame. The first time a guest comes out we will evaluate their dog and decide it the dog is sound in nerves/temperament and has the right drives to work. People that have titled dogs before/or have been actively training in SchH are allowed to work dogs during this time. Novice handlers with little to no dog training experience must come watch all three phases for around 6 weeks to show their commitment. If they are still interested in becoming members, the executive committee (officers) vote on whether they feel this person will be suitable for the club. If approved, they are given an application for membership. After that they are then allowed to work their dog if they have one. In another 6-8 weeks the voting members of the club either vote them in or they don't. New members are put on 1 years probation. During the application process these people train for free (though many do give us donations). Our bylaws do allow us to charge, but we never do. 

We have two levels of membership.

Associate members who train with us when they have the time, though they are expected to help at any events and to attend our yearly meeting. Their dues structure is set up a bit differently. They have a voice, but no vote. 

Full members must train with us 2 out of every 3 Sundays (or they are dropped down to associate membership or are asked to leave). They are supposed to train in all 3 phases towards a goal of titling in SchH/IPO. Only members that have titled a raw dog through SchH1, are an officer, or are no longer on probation may vote. Basically, if you aren't training, aren't participating in the club then you don't get to vote.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Personally, I think a trial period and having the membership vote after getting to know the person and their dog, and judging their committment level and fit with the club over an extended period of time, is by far the best way to handle new members.

But at the same time, I also don't think members who don't show up regularly, and who never had a chance to get to know the potential new member, should be voting.

Many clubs have different forms of membership, and what constitutes a voting member vs non-voting member. I would say attendance, amongst other things, should be required for voting. If the club wants to keep members who pay their dues, but never show up, is up to the personal preference of the club. There are pros and cons to it. One of the most obvious pros is that they put resources in ($$) but don't take any out since they're never there and if the club is having trouble financially, it may well be a good idea to let those people keep their membership. And then perhaps revise the standards by which voting privileges are earned, and include an attendance requirement to be able to vote so people who don't know what is actually going on in the club from week to week, or who the new applicants are, aren't making those decisions.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ooh yeah I think that's a good idea to say no vote if you don't bother showing up.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

You know, come to think of it- it was just a big number up front that shocked me. But I pay $96 for an 8 week class year round, which comes to $576 for classes in the year. Not to mention other seminars that I attend and pay for (which in 2011 has been two totaling $696). Wow! I wish I hadn't just added that up...

Anyway- point being, I guess $500 really isn't so bad for your sport of choice. It just seems that way when you actually see it written down... haha!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

> If they are still interested in becoming members, the executive committee (officers) vote on whether they feel this person will be suitable for the club.


I would much rather the officers vote in my club as well. At least one, if not all of them are at club every session so they would know who is best suited for training.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wildo said:


> You know, come to think of it- it was just a big number up front that shocked me. But I pay $96 for an 8 week class year round, which comes to $576 for classes in the year. Not to mention other seminars that I attend and pay for (which in 2011 has been two totaling $696). Wow! I wish I hadn't just added that up...
> 
> Anyway- point being, I guess $500 really isn't so bad for your sport of choice. It just seems that way when you actually see it written down... haha!


Well I think $576 isn't bad for the year, but $480 for only half the year is a lot for a new person. But I would much rather not think about the numbers if I could


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

wildo said:


> Anyway- point being, I guess $500 really isn't so bad for your sport of choice. It just seems that way when you actually see it written down... haha!


I don't want to see how much I pay to train written down :crazy:


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## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> Well I think $576 isn't bad for the year, but $480 for only half the year is a lot for a new person. But I would much rather not think about the numbers if I could


The group I recently joined also has a 6mo probationary period which is also $20/session. That is not terrible but the club now meets 2x week which certainly adds up. I'm a proby though so I cant be complainin! Just happy to be training for now and with a good group of people too.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Our officers vote on whether the person should be allowed to apply for membership. Our voting members get the final say (though once a person has gone that far they are pretty much a shoe in).


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Our club doesn't do Schutzhund, but for the year my fees are about 200, give or take 50 when I want to donate for something like a trial. Our club has obedience, conformation, agility, and rally. I can tell you this much, if I was charged $20 a training session for the first 6 months, I wouldn't go much either. I'd probably make it as close to minimal as possible (if I really wanted to join) and save my money until I become a full member. $20 would definately keep me away on those nights when I come home from work and just don't want to leave the house.

I'm pretty sure our fees for associate and full member are the same, just voting rights are different.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Our club is $150 for the year. We have a slightly different set up since my husband and I own the property we train at and we do not charge for the use. We are about to put up lights and will charge a fee to run them, we are also going to start charging a mowing fee this spring, but that will be to cover fuel. 
Anyway, we have a slightly different view on new members and voting them in. We only have a 6 week probationary period (sometime a few weeks more or less depending on the time of year). We then vote on the member, we require a quorum, which is why we may vote a bit early or late. We don't really get too bothered if someone joins but is slack about coming. We require they pay the full year all at once, so we have their money and if they choose to waste it and not come then fine. If they join after August, they have to pay the rest of that calendar year and the whole next year so we don't have to mess with it again (DVG yearly stuff gets submitted in September which is why we do it this way). 
We also offer a "limited" membership, which may be an option for your club. It is a membership with all working privileges but the member is not allowed to vote. This membership is about 25% cheaper than a full membership and the TD usually recommends this type of membership if warranted. We use it for people who want to join but are members of another club close by (this way they can't vote on something that they may be biased about because of the other club, like a trial date or something). We have also offered it to people who we weren't quite sure about their commitment, or maybe someone who lives really far away but would like to train here on some sort of regular basis. This allows those who are the core group and who do most of the grunt work and planning to keep control of things like training times or offering seminars, etc.

While I personally wouldn't mind paying way more per year, I can see that $20 per session for 6 months might start being a budgetary issue for many. Especially if you are traveling a good distance.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I really like the sounds of a limited membership type thing and will strongly suggest my club officers to look into something along those lines.

I really appreciate all of your input. Thanks again


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Seems the norm is to strictly control membership. We don't vote on it or anything like that


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think one reason why it can be more expensive for a person to be on a trial period (or probation, or guest or whatever you want to call it) is because clubs invest so much time and effort into new people, getting them started, showing them the ropes, etc. Many clubs just cannot survive without firm commitments from a decent number of people. Why would someone who is not really sure which direction they want to go get any sort of break in the cost? We are no longer structured this way, but if there is a difference in how much one is paying I would think that the committed members would be the ones getting the break.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Liesje said:


> Why would someone who is not really sure which direction they want to go get any sort of break in the cost? We are no longer structured this way, but if there is a difference in how much one is paying I would think that the committed members would be the ones getting the break.


We mainly offered this membership to people who live more than 2 hours away. We knew they wouldn't be a huge drain on resources and wouldn't be able to make regular votes which could effect quorum issues and slow down voting on time sensitive things, like trial dates or whatnot. I guess I misspoke regarding those who can't commit, it is really to cover people who are already committed to another club and we don't want conflicts on club business. But we have had a few people who sounded all gung ho but we could tell they were going to fizzle out(kids in sports, or traveled constantly on business). They REALLY wanted to be voted in so we gave them the option of the limited membership. If they really were sticking with it and wanted to pay for the full membership and get a vote(along with all the responsibilities, like cooking for seminars or doing paperwork for a trial) then they can. I can't see charging this type of member more than the core group. I mean I get the sentiment, but how would that really go over, "Hey, you almost never come, you don't get to vote on club business like changing practice times or new members, but we are charging you more than a regular member because you're generally annoying" . I'm thinking that none of them will sign on for that. And overall, the handful of people who have ended up with that kind of membership have almost all been a free $100 in the club coffer to be honest. The one person who ended up moving up to a regular membership was happy to pay the difference and take on some chores when he moved closer to us.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

FWIW Annette, IMO you have very fair and realistic rules and standards. 

Sounds like a good balance between being welcoming, attracting new people to the sport while protecting your time/resources and the more committed members.


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