# What is the minium reaction for:



## baxterbrown11 (Mar 23, 2009)

Okay, as I get ready with final training for the Sch1.
In everyone's opinion what is the minium reaction for the gun sensitivity test that the judge will be watching for. Like is the dog allowed to look back or look in certain direction??

I noticed when my dog hears the gun last year she is starting to get pumped like reaction to protection work, eyes dilate, and she is breathing heavy. I noticed that afterwards when I whip out tug in OB after gun. She about drags me down to the ground. Should I work the gun in more to get her more used to it.
Just worried she will do something she shouldn't. 
I noticed some judges do it soon after not so many paces, or is this in Sch3?
thanks


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Well, the ideal reaction is none at all. But if the dog flinches, looks away for a moment and then looks back to the handler, gets a bit excited, and other minor reactions, depending on the judge and level you're trialing for, the judge may or may not care. At worst, it will be be a minor point deduction. Or there may not be a point deduction, but it will be commented on in the critique. Really it depends on the judge, how the dog reacts, and how that individual judge interprets the cause of the dog's reaction. If the judge sees the dog react and questions the reaction, he can also ask for additional gunshots to see how the dog reacts to those. 

It would take the dog completely freaking out for it to be dismissed due to gunshot sensitivity though. Anything short of that is a minor point deduction. Of course, a dog with gun issues may also break his long down during the gunshots, and if that happens it brings with it a much larger point deduction, and the potential for a serious mess if he doesn't come back under control quickly.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If the dog breaks the long down due to gunshots he will probably fail. I would work on it without making a big "to do" about it. They are allowed to notice, but if the dog shows a strong reaction the judge has the right to ask for a third shot to determine sensitivity.


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## baxterbrown11 (Mar 23, 2009)

okay that's what I thought.
I know if she breaks long down she is failed. Dog can't move more than 3 meters.
I just know she may look back opposite of my leg. But, I don't know if she is confusing this with bitework.
Now I am wondering. About the long down.lol

Like can I put her in the long down and have someone do shots in the distance then feed her if she goes to get up.?? I am just trying to think of any exercise to give her positive reinforcements in. Or if anyone has done this for a dog that has broken the long down in gun test.?
she has never really been in the long down while shots went off. Ummm.
I know, I am worry wart. Just don't want to be embarrassed or anything. Just noticed her getting hyped at gun shots more lately.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

If she breaks the long down she will lose either all of the points or partial points depending on when she breaks except if she breaks because of the gunfire. Then she will fail.

I would not reward her if she starts to break. I would reward her for staying in the down. Stay near her so you can reward quickly for the correct behavior. As I said, don't make a big to-do about this or you may create a problem where one doesn't exist.


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## baxterbrown11 (Mar 23, 2009)

Ok. Yeh I think I will be just fine. But, as she gets older I see her getting more excited with the gun fire. Maybe she is just being normal in that.
She has great long down. Never moves. But, with gun fire I don't know, never tried it.
thanks so much.


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## baxterbrown11 (Mar 23, 2009)

I am in process of finding good club, I need desperate help with retrieve.
I have been playing around with it. But, haven't seen any true steady results yet.
Any suggestions on how to make this positive thing for dog is greatly appreciated.
Everyone I know thinks the force is the best way to go


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## KC_Pike (Aug 18, 2008)

Here is an article on clicker training with the retrieve.

http://www.schutzhund-training.com/clicker_retrieve.html


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

I just got Ivan Balabanovs video The Retrieve very good too.
I have played during gun shots as well to decrease sensitivity. I have also stayed close during long down and rewarded, then gradually worked up to the full distance. Good luck.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Maybe different in the states but I was told for over here...
if your dog shows the reaction of standing then you just get points off maybe 5...
But breaking/moving from the actual spot then disqualified. 

As for the bring I have my own trouble with my GSD and the bring that I am working on so I cannot comment.


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## baxterbrown11 (Mar 23, 2009)

Sarah,
What is Ivan's video like, his method.?
I bought two of his obedience ones and they helped some. Looked like what I call static attention. But, I think they were more geared for the malanois.
If the dvd sounds like what I need, I will buy it.
I need to find what works.
I don't know how to use the clicker properly, and don't think my timing would be fast enough.
But, worth consideration
I am trying to work on getting the frontal hold first which is the hardest part I think she will then know to go get it. But, the frontal is killing us.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I have not seen Ivan's retrieve video yet, though I hear it is very good and also that it builds upon the principles in his first two videos. You are right though that his general method as seen in the first two videos is geared for high drive dogs who are obsessed with toys, though certainly not exclusivelyl Malinois. If your dog doesn't have a high toy drive, the methods will be less effective. But having not seen the retrieve video I don't know if the same toy obsession would be needed to follow that method or not.

For a lower drive dog, or one more interested in food/praise than toys, there is a good video on teaching a shaped retrieve using markers/clicker entitled "Positively Fetching" that you may want to try out.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthIf the dog breaks the long down due to gunshots he will probably fail. I would work on it without making a big "to do" about it. They are allowed to notice, but if the dog shows a strong reaction the judge has the right to ask for a third shot to determine sensitivity.


We had two dogs at our trial last weekend that this happened to. Neither was a GSD. One ran toward the gun, the other walked to the owner.


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## baxterbrown11 (Mar 23, 2009)

thanks Nat.
Yeh, you never know what is going to happen. And it may not happen to me. Only one way to find out.lol.
Just want to know any details that might help.
Still pondering on retrieve training.
Oh, yes, I don't mean Ivan's OB dvd's were just for the malanois. I think for me ,I was never really was good at ob. I just didn't have enough info. and or training skills.
I have incorporated some of his stuff into training and now after one full summer I say she has really improved on toy drive, she snaps at the tug, pulls on it in interaction, and seems very interested in playing now. But still after that was confused on not using food? I still use food as reward and also the tug. She does love both. It works for her. It has also helped her drives. Especially the tug now.
But, the videos were very good overall. It will help me in next dog to train in earlier stages and will help me to do ob better
Chris, since she has become more intense on the tug. She was kind of tested today on that. I threw tug over jump, small jump, and she went nuts. I waited for her calm down and made sure she sitted. Then let her go. She did very good, ran like cat, picked up tug and jumped back to me. If her drives overall has improved and you think this is good sign, should I persue certain retreival techniques?
I have been working on proper frontal but have not seen any clear learning cues from her. Sorry for long story.


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