# Can a German Shepherd puppy be oversocialized?



## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

Our puppy's behavior has drastically changed. She used to fear dogs she didn't know. Now she's as confident at approaching them as our other puppy, who has never been dog shy. Those trips to the dog park really built her confidence. Unfortunately, she has also stopped barking when people she doesn't know come over. I guess we told her it was ok and let too many of the strangers she barked at pet her. That's what we were advised to do to avoid her developing fear aggression. She has now become desensitized to all strangers, even those that come on our property. I wasn't trying to turn her into a Lab and I certainly didn't want her to stop alert barking. German Shepherds are supposed to be aloof, but she wants to be petted by everyone she sees. I'm happy she has completely overcome her dog shyness, but how do I bring back her former aloofness and alert barking?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Can a German Shepherd puppy be oversocialized?


No. 
It's going just fine and I'm glad she's not barking her head off any longer and stopped being so fearful.

Friendly and outgoing beats fearful any day.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How old is your puppy.

GSDs are incredibly intelligent. 

A dog that is afraid of ordinary strangers who are not doing anything bad or abnormal is a liability.

A dog that is friendly and outgoing is less likely to bite someone who does not deserve it.

A puppy is a puppy and if she has faith in you to protect her, she will not be as reactive in all situations.

When someone exhuding the fear pharamones comes into your yard with no good intentions, I would be surprised if you girl runs up, tail wagging, looking for pets.

Trying to make a GSD aloof or protective is likely to backfire big time. 

Good job with socializing your puppy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Oh, I think you can go overboard with socializing, but not the way you describe. If you force socialization scenarios on the dog when it is clearly overwhelmed or on edge, if you go out to socialize your pup but are fearful or anxious in normal ordinary situations, so that the pup is not getting confidence from you, the socialization experiences go from positive to negative, and can be a problem.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

selzer said:


> Trying to *make* a GSD aloof or protective is likely to backfire big time.


Strongly agree. Your pup is so young yet. The instincts you want to see are not going to come out now, anyway. If you see them now, they're fear based, not protection based. If you see them in a couple of years and the dog is well adjusted, etc, then you could say it is protection/territorial and likely to be accurate.

I don't think it is possible to oversocialize if the dog enjoys it. Just read all the posts here where people can hardly take their dog anywhere, due to fear issues, aggression issues, etc... There's a new post daily on these problems, if not more! Count your lucky stars for where you are now. I know this is a major concern for you, as I've read the prior posts, but some things aren't meant to be hurried and this is one of them.

Enjoy your happy, social puppy.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

She was born January 14, 2012 so she's still pretty young. We got her from a farmer who also breeds cats. I'm guessing she had never been around strangers before we got her. The 2 German Shepherd mixes I had in the past both barked at strangers when they came on my property, barked when they heard noises outside, and ran to the door barking when someone knocked. The youngest was a 6 month old Chow Shepherd mix when we got her and already did all that. The other was a young adult Shepherd **** Dog mix. Xena runs to the door to investigate, but doesn't bark. I know she's smart because she's extremely alert, she sits, lays down, offers her paw to shake, and speaks on command. Do purebred German Shepherds tend to alert bark less than Shepherd mixes? ETA I know she's way too young to be protective. I'm talking about foundation behaviors like alert barking.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Do purebred German Shepherds tend to alert bark less than Shepherd mixes?


So many different bloodlines, so many different breed types; it's impossible to answer this question. My two are big alert barkers. Sometimes I wish they'd shut up.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Sounds like she developing as a confident pup - and that's good.

She has a lot of time before you might expect her to discriminate.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Be very glad your pup doesn't bark at every little sound. It can become a habit and later down the road, you won't know when to take the bark serious or not.

For the qualities you are looking for, the protective instinct etc will begin showing around the 1 1/2 yr, sometimes earlier or later. Please don't try pushing it quicker or issues you do not want to develop may.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

Unfortunately, I don't think she's very confident. She seems to be extremely submissive. Recently, she started laying her ears down and wagging her tail when she approaches us or anyone else, even strangers. I've only seen her attack something once and it was our shop vac. When we first turned it on, she started barking and backing up. She kept walking closer to it, then backing up. We failed to get rid of the "nuisance" so she finally attacked it. When that didn't work, she simply stopped reacting to it. At that point she was completely desensitized to it. We turned it off and on several times after that with no reaction at all. I'm not sure what that reaction says about her.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think she's very confident. She seems to be extremely submissive. Recently, she started laying her ears down and wagging her tail when she approaches us or anyone else, even strangers. I've only seen her attack something once and it was our shop vac. When we first turned it on, she started barking and backing up. She kept walking closer to it, then backing up. We failed to get rid of the "nuisance" so she finally attacked it. When that didn't work, she simply stopped reacting to it. At that point she was completely desensitized to it. We turned it off and on several times after that with no reaction at all. I'm not sure what that reaction says about her.


Laying the ears down and wagging the tail is a good thing! It is friendly. 

I've followed your posts, so I know how desperate you are to make this pup a guard dog for your home. 

You say you've only "seen her attack sometihng once" as though you are disappointed?  I personally think her reaction showed she is a well balanced puppy who realized it was no threat and gave up on the non-threat.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I've only seen her attack something once and it was our shop vac.


I'm curious what you prefer her to do?

I hope you search for and read that thread about "would my dog protect me" where they had strangers come in and meander through the home to test dog's reactions. 

A stranger breaking in your home right now would scare the be-jeezus out of your puppy and that's because she's a baby. 

People have told you this over and over in all your threads. Don't encourage her to do anything but love and accept people right now.
When she's older, she'll realize there are actually threats and react accordingly but if you encourage it now, you'll have a problem when she gets older.

I don't know what your neighborhood is like, but here, we find just having dogs, period, on our property is a deterrent. And having a GSD, forgetaboutit. 
So unless your area is a lot more weird/dangerous than ours, I'm not sure why you need a vicious dog?


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## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

your dog sounds very smart and she most likely will alert bark when she gets a little older, my 2yr old female does not bark alot and I love that about her. She will give a little woof if I dont hear someone at the door but a dog that is not barking all crazy can be even more scary to strangers because they know they are well trained She did go crazy once when some sales person was going around and we knew she must know something was off about him, when she does bark we pay attetion let your stable dog grow up a bit


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I'm curious what you prefer her to do?
> 
> I hope you search for and read that thread about "would my dog protect me" where they had strangers come in and meander through the home to test dog's reactions.
> 
> ...


At her age, the only thing I'd like to see her do is alert bark when someone knocks on the door (I've seen puppies younger than her do that) or when she hears a noise outside that's close to our house. She used to alert bark when people she didn't know came on the property (although she didn't associate it with knocking). Now she has completely stopped doing that. Had I known letting the strangers she barked at pet her was going to have this effect, I never would've done it. I don't want her to be fear aggressive but I don't want her automatically trusting every stranger she sees either. Do parents teach their children to trust strangers? I'm concerned any future instincts she might've developed when older will be curtailed because she now thinks all strangers are her friend.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

All strangers ARE her friend. 
You don't want her going bonkers on anyone right now. Why teach her fear when people visiting are not to be feared??
Chances are, you'll never have an intruder, most of us won't in our lifetimes.

And even if there is one, 1) right now she's too young to do anything about it and 2) when she's older she will do something about it - if trained to recognize everyone you invite on the property as your friends! 

It's a bit sad and I see why so many dogs turn out so schitzy now. 
I believe, and this is no offense to you, you got a GSD for the wrong reasons. You just didn't know. 
You could have gotten a Great Pyrenees which can be quite aggressive to strangers coming around (and are thus a huge liability for the average home). 
The beauty of GSDs is they can be protective - and will (when older) but they are also intelligent and use their senses. If you're not running and screaming from the person who just showed up on your door step, *WHY SHOULD THE DOG?*?
*That's a dog using it's brains. *

But, good luck with her either way.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> At her age, the only thing I'd like to see her do is alert bark when someone knocks on the door (I've seen puppies younger than her do that) or when she hears a noise outside that's close to our house. She used to alert bark when people she didn't know came on the property (although she didn't associate it with knocking). Now she has completely stopped doing that. *Had I known letting the strangers she barked at pet her was going to have this effect, I never would've done it.* I don't want her to be fear aggressive but I don't want her automatically trusting every stranger she sees either. *Do parents teach their children to trust strangers?* I'm concerned any future instincts she might've developed when older will be curtailed because she now thinks all strangers are her friend.


On the first bolded, I am glad you didn't know, then.

On the second bolded, she's a dog, not a child.

OP, you really come across as having a one track agenda. You want what you want, at the cost of the dog or not. Maybe I'm reaching, but you appear selfish in what YOU want for this dog to be / to do. 

The vast majority of dog lovers here want to develop their dogs to their full potential -- what the DOG is capable of being -- yet, you seem so stuck on making this dog only what YOU need it to be. Any deviation from that seems to put you in alarm and second guessing everything. 

You might need to consider the possibility that you have a delightful dog that may not be the big protective dog that you so strongly desire. Those instincts may very easily show themselves down the road, but you don't seem to want to wait for them to properly develop? WHY NOT? Why are you in such a hurry with her? Why can't you let her be a cheerful, happy pup? 

You perhaps should've purchased a Sch candidate and pursued that training for what it seems you truly want.

On that note, are you doing any training with this girl? Formal class training? Honestly, please do enroll. The trainers will teach you a lot about what is expected and normal puppy behavior and instinct. I've personally been quite amazed at how much I've learned from the trainers and just watching other owners at our classes.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

You have to learn to trust your dogs instincts. They know the difference between good and bad.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> You have to learn to trust your dogs instincts. They know the difference between good and bad.


But not a baby dog's "instincts." Baby dog doesn't have those for awhile, IMHO. Anyone trusting a puppy's "instincts" is not too rational.

I was once sorely mistaken for this belief. 

I've also changed my thinking here. I may or may not trust the "whoever," but if I tell my dog to back down, then he should. Because I am telling him to do so. He can be on alert, he can be unapproachable if he wishes, but he cannot present an issue to anyone I "tell" him to ignore. It is NOT up to my dog to decide who is good or bad. That's my job, not his. And most certainly NOT a puppy's job.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> But not a baby dog's "instincts." Baby dog doesn't have those for awhile, IMHO. Anyone trusting a puppy's "instincts" is not too rational.
> 
> I was once sorely mistaken for this belief.
> 
> I've also changed my thinking here. I may or may not trust the "whoever," but if I tell my dog to back down, then he should. Because I am telling him to do so. He can be on alert, he can be unapproachable if he wishes, but he cannot present an issue to anyone I "tell" him to ignore. It is NOT up to my dog to decide who is good or bad. That's my job, not his. And most certainly NOT a puppy's job.


I meant as it got older, because I agree that right now the puppy should love everyone and be approachable. As my dog gets older I can see that she trusts and doesn't trust the same people as me. Notice I said *"Trust your DOG's instincts, not Trust your PUPPY'S instincts"* I can't comment on the rest, because I have never been in a situation that any of my dogs weren't controllable or really try to get to a person they thought was a "threat", but I do believe that if a dog is reacting to a person in a negative way that there is a reason for it and they can sense it way before we(the people) can. In another words if my dog reacted to a person negatively I would take a real good look at that person. In most cases I would probably side with the dog.....they just know.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

It sounds like you have done an excellent job of socializing, and a formerly shy, fearful pup has become confident, friendly, and outgoing. That is a GOOD thing and it forms the basis for a well-adjusted, appropriately protective dog when mature. Because of your excellent work in socializing, your pup now perceives the world as a safe, fun, happy place, nothing to fear. 

Which do you think makes a better policeman or soldier, one that is confident, outgoing, and fearless, or one who is shy, fearful, and nervous?

Once a pup becomes secure and confident, she will be able to learn *discernment*. A well-adjusted human (and dog) reckons most people are basically good, and not to be feared or defended against. When a "bad" person appears, that person is going to stand out like a sore thumb to the dog. They can sense things about human intention that humans cannot; I don't know if it's a scent, or certain mannerisms, or what, but a well-adjusted, well socialized dog can tell the difference. Dogs that are undersocialized, shy, or nervous think *all* people are potentially bad and make no discrimination. This is a setup for an innocent person to get bitten. Confident, socialized dogs have no fear or defensiveness toward harmless folks... but should a bad person enter the picture, they will alert on it immediately.

This comes with age and maturity. You CANNOT rush it, or you risk re-developing fears and uncertainty in your dog.

A pup this age should be friendly and submissive. It is absolutely appropriate and shows that she is secure in herself. Submission is not the same thing as fear; submission is a social lubricant. It does not necessarily indicate that the dog is not comfortable or confident, it simply shows that the pup knows her place in the world at her current stage of development. I would be more worried if your pup was showing aggressive, dominant behaviors at this age.

I think that when she gets closer to maturity, around 18 months to 2 years, she may one day surprise you with an unprecedented show of protective behavior. This is rooted in the confidence and security you have provided for her. You do not need to encourage or develop this behavior; it is instinctive and will show up on its own. What you can do to encourage protective behavior is exactly what you've been doing: socializing, building her confidence, showing her that the world is her oyster, everyone is a friend, and she has nothing to fear.

Confident, fearless dogs make the best protection dogs. Even a friendly, goofy Labrador Retriever can discern a "bad" person and become protective when necessary. A dog that is overly protective is a dog that is a bit unstable and not very trustworthy, one that can't be taken out safely in public. How can your dog protect you if you can't have her with you wherever you go, and trust her judgement?

German Shepherds have natural suspicion and aloofness toward strangers when they are mature. Give your puppy time and keep doing what you're doing. Don't give "protectiveness" another thought. Right now, you are there to protect her, and I can almost guarantee you that she will return the favor someday.

And if you decide you don't want her anymore because she is "too friendly", send her to me.  I would be proud to own such a dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

llombardo said:


> You have to learn to trust your dogs instincts. They know the difference between good and bad.


If that were the case, mail carriers would have nothing to fear, would they?


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

She may surprise you when she is older. My dog trainer has a female GSD that he always says reminds him more of a lab. She loves and is affectionate toward everyone. He went to a party and took her, and a person came and grabbed him from behind. His dog went ballistic. He said she was like Cujo. He was shocked because she had never shown that protective instinct. 

I do think it is similar in a sense to raising kids in that you want to instill confidence. My sister-in-law was quite mean IMO to my niece, trying to make her "tough". For some reason that was a big deal to her. She used to make fun of me for babying my son, who is 6 mths older than my niece. I used to tell her that what makes a tough, confident person is feeling safe and secure. And sure enough, my son was far less likely to put up with bullying and other things like that at school than my niece. I feel the same will be true with my puppy. I would like for him to alert us if need be, and I plan to do that by making him feel safe and secure. 

Also, in the last training class we took our foster puppy to they did start working on alert barking. I would consider taking her to an obedience class and asking the instructor about it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> If that were the case, mail carriers would have nothing to fear, would they?


I've never had a dog that didn't like the mailman, but I did have an older GSD that lived across the street from me that did not like the mailman and cornered him on the porch one day. I'll never forget it, because my son was about two and someone called the police to save the mailman. When the officer arrived he actually pulled his gun, I was horrified because my son was watching the whole thing. I kindly asked him not to shoot the dog because of my son and both of us together were able to get the dog into the yard and the mailman off of the roof I think that a dog can sense that the mailman is bad because all they do is bring bills and that upsets their mom and dad....just kidding In all seriousness, my dogs are outside when the mailman comes and they wag their tail, they never bark or growl either.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

For protection, schutzhund, SAR, police work, and herding, the first and most important thing you need is a stable dog. A fearful, reactive dog is NOT a stable dog. If you take an unstable dog and train it to guard, protect, bite, then you are going to have a raging liability on your hands.


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## childsplay (Jan 28, 2012)

The best foundation on which to build is a stable, confident, well-balanced dog of solid nerve. I think socialization is a key factor in achieving this foundation. From there you can build to the next level of whatever you choose for your dog. But whatever it is, it will take consistent training.

For me, I just want a family pet and companion with good manners so I socialize him everyday. Yesterday, it was a walk to the shopping center and sitting at an outdoor cafe. Today it was walking around the neighborhood during "Garage Sale Saturday." Almost every house had people and loads of "stuff" in the driveways and garages. Other days, I take him to me son's baseball practice. IMHO, all these experiences make him a more well balanced animal who is gaining life experiences each day.

Interestingly, he still lets out a few barks whenever the doorbell rings (which I personally don't care for) so I'm trying to dissuade that reaction.

I agree with those who have said that it would be an inappropriate expectation of her to be protective at this young age. It sounds like she's doing great for her age!


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## GSDMUM (Aug 18, 2011)

My Brandy was like that. She jumped into the mail truck one day to greet the mailman and LOVED everyone she met as if she knew them forever . She would whimper in excitement and try to leap up and lick everyone's face, except for kids. She thought everyone who ever walked by was there for her. I loved that in her and miss it terribly. She was a great guard dog in the yard however. I guess it's just in their makeup. Just enjoy it!


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

OP, I think you're just expecting too much out of your dog at this point. It's still a puppy. Let it enjoy the socializing. Encourage the friendliness. You are correct that you wouldn't want kids welcoming strangers. However, dogs are more likely to do damage than kids. In my opinion, your dog sounds great. If you want the protection, train your dog into protection.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Llombardo, maybe your dogs don't but look up bite statistics for mail carriers.
You cannot "always trust your dog's instincts"...dogs are notorious for making poor judgement calls on their own.
which is why the best training is one that includes looking to us for guidance.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

msvette, That's why you can't over socialize. Most of those dogs that bite likely have owners who encourage them to bark at strangers. Who don't understand the difference between protective and fearful. Who didn't take their dogs out and properly socialize them. Etc etc. Add in that most mailmen have a distrust of dogs and VIOLA! self-fulfilling prophecy
It's not that dogs don't have good instincts. It's that you have to give them a basis for judgement. They have to know human behavior, how to read people, how people react. Singe, he's a baby. I wouldn't trust his instincts yet. He's more aloof and still getting to know human body language.
Rayden? He loves EVERYONE. He has been socialized since his eyes opened. Steady in public, been around people and strangers dang close to every day since he was 12 weeks old. If HE doesn't like someone?? Then I know that I can trust that there is something going on. 

OP, if you want a protective dog, then encourage what she is doing now. People are great, people are good. Let her love everyone. She needs to know that 99.9% of the human race are harmless. Then, when she meets that .01% she will recognize them.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Please believe what everyone is telling you. The most important thing is to have your puppy grow up with confidence. It's hard to look at the size of GSD puppies and realize that they're still babies, but they are. Don't expect any mature behaviors from her yet, no matter how big she 'looks'. As has been pointed out - a few years!

If you want her to bark at the door, why don't you just make a game out of it? Have someone on the other side knock and treat her when she barks? Make sure you also treat for being quiet too. Whatever name you want to put on it, like "alert" and "quiet"...whatever.

Also, not to say that your puppy and mine are the same, but I noticed that around 4 mos. old my pup got fairly quiet with the exception of barking at neighbors and the cat. These two no-no's where trained out. Just before he turned 6 mos. he barked his head off non-stop, with the exception of things he knew not to bark at. 

Maybe this will be your experience too? You absolutely don't want a dog that barks all the time! Our neighbors have a Lab like that, and I swear they could be being robbed blind and they'd never know it, they're so desensitized to the racket their dog makes.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> msvette, That's why you can't over socialize.


Um, I know and understand that, my response was first, with "no, you cannot oversocialize".
I'm not the OP and I love the fact our GSD welcomes everyone _we_ do onto our property.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Llombardo, maybe your dogs don't but look up bite statistics for mail carriers.
> You cannot "always trust your dog's instincts"...dogs are notorious for making poor judgement calls on their own.
> which is why the best training is one that includes looking to us for guidance.



My dogs never had a problem, my mom's dogs never had a problem, my sisters dogs never had a problem..etc, so as long as none of my dogs don't have problems the statistics don't mean anything to me. My dogs don't do it, so they aren't part of the statistics and I'm happy with that I am a firm believer in my dogs instincts and I trust their judgement 100%, they have never given me reason not to. They can look to me for guidance and I give it to them, but if someone is walking down the street that I never seen before and my dog reacts differently toward them, you better bet I will listen to what they are telling me in a heartbeat.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Your dogs may be the exception. Dogs look for differences, it's really that simple.
A criminal may be acting differently than a regular citizen out for a walk (dogs clue in on the differences) in but dogs will also bark at things they've never seen.

Again, the statistics will outweigh your argument that dogs have perfect judgement. 

In this particular thread, your observations aren't super helpful - since it's a sign of instability for dogs to "go off" at everyone who enters the property. 
We see it here and hear it time and time again, "my dog growled at/bit my neighbor", "my dog growled at/bit my mom/aunt/cousin/nephew", etc. I'm guessing there's more unstable dogs out there than stable ones, too, plus poor ownership (encouraging a dog to bark at everyone and hackle up when relatives visit, etc.)

I'm glad your dogs "know the difference" but perhaps that's precisely because they were well-socialized. 
To sit and say "trust a dog's judgement" is very unwise since if an undersocialized dog has never seen an elderly person with a cane, or a person with a large floppy hat, or an umbrella, or a pizza box in their arms, they "go off", and may bite said person. Does that mean the elderly cane or walker using citizen is a criminal? Does it mean the mail carrier has a bomb (or just the mail??), or the floppy hat is a dangerous item?

You get what I'm saying, right?

I would highly recommend Temple Grandin's books. They'll explain why dogs get fearful/defensive, and why it's quite common in the above scenarios for dogs to "freak out".


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I'm glad your dogs "know the difference" but perhaps that's precisely because they were well-socialized.


I think it goes without saying that before you can trust a dog's judgement, he has to be a stable, well-adjusted, well-socialized dog. That's the whole point of this thread--it's nearly impossible to socialize a dog into complacency. 

Even some unsocialized dogs can have pretty good radar for creeps, problem is that you can't always tell *why* that dog is barking. He could be barking at someone because he's a creep, or he could be barking at the mailman. That's why a dog who is friendly or neutral toward people is a much better indicator--creeps stand out to them and you can tell by the dog's behavior that something is wrong.

But it's true that dogs, just like people, aren't always correct in their assumptions. I once had a dog that would alert on dog-phobic people. I don't know how she knew that people were afraid of dogs, but she could spot a phobic from half a block away, and would put on a convincingly aggressive bluster. She would never bite anyone, but seemed to find it hilarious fun to scare people who were already afraid to begin with.  Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh?

I suppose you could argue that those people were actually dog-phobic creeps; if I automatically trusted my dog's judgement that's what I would have assumed, but some of these people I knew socially and knew them not to be creeps. So my own judgement trumps the dog's.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Your dogs may be the exception. Dogs look for differences, it's really that simple.
> A criminal may be acting differently than a regular citizen out for a walk (dogs clue in on the differences) in but dogs will also bark at things they've never seen.
> 
> Again, the statistics will outweigh your argument that dogs have perfect judgement.
> ...


If this post was in response to my post, lets clear this up. I never said that a dog should go off at everyone who enters the property, I believe the exact opposite. My point with the mail man(and it might not be common) is that my dogs know the difference and don't bark at him/her either. Very rarely do my dogs bark and if they do, it warrants me to check what is going on. My dogs are heavily socialized and I believe all dogs should be, that is the way to get a good, solid, stable dog. I am not looking for my dogs to be guard dogs, they are my pets, but I do feel safe knowing they are here I would never encourage my dogs to bark at someone coming on the property, walking past the property or at things when I'm walking them. It really is unacceptable to me. So again when the dogs do bark, I do trust their judgement that something is not right, because that is out of the norm for them and it makes it easier for me to know if something is wrong.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Even some unsocialized dogs can have pretty good radar for creeps, problem is that you can't always tell *why* that dog is barking. He could be barking at someone because he's a creep, or he could be barking at the mailman. That's why a dog who is friendly or neutral toward people is a much better indicator--creeps stand out to them and you can tell by the dog's behavior that something is wrong.


Exactly!! And it also goes back to "If I invite someone on my propery, and I'm not fearful of them, WHY should my dog bark or 'protect' us from them?"

I heard, in another context, that in banks, they teach tellers to recognize counterfeit money, not by studying counterfeit money, but by teaching the _real thing._ When you know and understand what the real thing looks like and can recognize _that_, you will know the counterfeit money when it comes across your desk!

Apply that to dogs - if your dog knows what a friend or non-threat looks like, it will recognize the threat when it comes up!


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

When Cowboy was younger, I had a dogwalker and I was wondering if having someone come in each day to walk him was going to ruin his "house guarding potential". Also, I live in the city of Chicago, and it has always been important that he does not disturb neighbors with his barking, so I did not encourage barking or allow more than a couple of barks. About 4 years old, I think, is when he started to alert barking at the door. He is almost 9 now and it still startles me, but I allow him a couple of barks then he must quiet. His deep bark would be scary to anyone on the other side of that door, which does please me, since I live in such a mixed urban environment.

On the other hand, I have my own business and part of that is going to people's homes myself and walking their dogs while they are at work and when I approach that door, if the dog barks, I know the owner is home. Dogs are absolutely quiet when the owners are not home. haha.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

She's a puppy. If she was showing aggression or fear barking at this stage, it would be something to worry about, not be happy about. 
Don't worry about her not being protective, puppies aren't supposed to be.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

Chicagocanine said:


> She's a puppy. If she was showing aggression or fear barking at this stage, it would be something to worry about, not be happy about.
> Don't worry about her not being protective, puppies aren't supposed to be.


She's way to young to be protective. I wouldn't let her protect me if she tried. Alert barking was the only thing I was looking for. She used to do this and after being socialized, she stopped. I was just concerned that if a puppy didn't alert bark when young or in her case stopped alert barking after being socialized, it could be a sign she wouldn't develop guard instincts when she got older. I was just afraid I had over socialized and ruined her. Her personality has just changed so much. At 8 weeks, she was a big bellied furball. Soon after, she became this landshark (not sure how else to label it) that liked to bite everyone and everything, although she never drew blood (there were a few times when I wondered if she was vicious). During that time period, she alert barked when strangers approached our home and was afraid of other dogs. Now, she has completely gotten over her fear of other dogs, but has stopped barking when people come over. I'm hoping everyone is right that I haven't ruined her. I've just never had a German Shepherd puppy that's the silent watchful type (my other 2 were GS mixes). Maybe that will change when she gets older.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

sometimes the silent watchful type are better to have

Masi is not a big barker,which I'm happy with, but she is a 'watcher', just having a dog like this 'watch' you can be even more intimidating to a person than one 'going off' on them.

I understand you want her to alert bark, and she may as she gets older, just have to wait and see I guess


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> sometimes the silent watchful type are better to have
> 
> Masi is not a big barker,which I'm happy with, but she is a 'watcher', just having a dog like this 'watch' you can be even more intimidating to a person than one 'going off' on them.


I totally agree. The silent ones are the confident ones. They are the ones that will usually actually bite if you push them.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Now, she has completely gotten over her fear of other dogs, but has stopped barking when people come over. I'm hoping everyone is right that I haven't ruined her.


I just can't imagine why you think you "ruined" her because she has become confident and brave.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh for goodness sakes, be happy your puppy is happy and confident! All this worry! It is much too early to worry like this.

You may never get what you want! You might get more than what you want! It's a crapshoot. I have alert barkers galore. It isn't that fun actually.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I think you can train an alert bark, though, once they're an adult. I mean, if they don't do it on their own.


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## farles83 (Mar 13, 2012)

We have taken our 6 month old Harry out to the local dog park once a week to socialize with people and dogs, he is extremely friendly and loves everyone! However often times in the middle of the night he will jump up off the floor and let out a big deep bark if someone is walking past the house. He also does the same when visitors come to the door but if he has "met" them before he settles down once he gets a good smell.

I did have a weird issue with his reaction to my brother entering the house while i wasnt home (in puppy behaviour section) though.

Having said all that, if i come home from work and sneak through the garage into the back yard, he will sit up and bark and growl and not even come close to me, but if i say something all of a sudden he figures out who it is and goes straight into submissive mode.

I imagine these are probably the traits the OP wants in her dog, and its sad that the pup currently disappoints you so much. I have had 3 GSD's in my lifetime and the other two were very similar to the OPs pup but they were all exceptional guard dogs by about 2 years of age.

anyway... im pretty sure your dog will get put down if it bites anyone and that includes an intruder. You want it to be a deterrent not an aggressive security guard.


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