# Horribly upset...I miss him...



## Debby (May 8, 2005)

I am devastated and heartbroken. This has been a horrible week for me. I had to put my beautiful AKC registered purebred German Shepherd, that I had for almost 6 years, down due to someone not using common sense. I have cried so much the past few days. Jasper was a good dog, he was. Noone else ever had a problem with him. He didn't know a stranger. We live on a farm, an acreage, and so he and my female German Shepherd were not tied up. They had the run of the farm. I used to joke that if someone were trying to rob my house, my German shepherds would just lick them to death! Jasper was everyone's friend....the trash men loved him (yes we have trash pick up clear out here), the road maintenance guys loved him, the meter reader loved him, the schwans lady loved him, etc etc etc. He was our buddy!!! My daughter who will be 6 tomorrow had grown up with him....and he loved her and followed her everywhere she went when she was playing outside. He was very protective of her. He was such a good dog....sigh. But someone who lives a mile or so away from us recently decided it was a good idea to run by our house periodically. Run. I work for an insurance company and one of the things they have on their website that has to do with dogs and dog bites, is never run by a strange dog that does not know you. It is their instinct to chase and someone they don't know running by them makes them nervous. Especially big dogs for pete's sakes!! Most people know that. When I was in 8th grade, the people who lived nearest to us in the country had two big German Shepherds. I liked to go walking. I was very careful when I walked by that house....I walked slowly and lowered my head. They barked, but they never came after me or hurt me. They are a very protective breed, but aren't mean. Anyway....long story short....this woman ran by our house on several occassions recently...the first time she ran near our house (not right by it, just a little ways away at the end of the gravel road, within site of my dogs) and she ran with her own big male dog, and Jasper started a fight with her dog...a male testosterone thing...our female was in heat and he felt his territory and his female was being invaded...my husband stopped the fight, and he told me about it. I felt bad for her dog, and I hoped it would not happen again. She did not run near our house with her dog again ....she just ran right by our house without her dog...and the dogs barked, and they didn't like it, and my husband was outside a couple times when it happened and he yelled at the dogs...so maybe you would think it wasn't a good direction to run?? Honestly...if she would have walked, or even acted friendly towards him, he would have been fine with her and he would have loved her as much as he does all the others who ever have been by or at our house....even the Jehovahs witness that would stop, and I would be pretending I wasnt home...but there would be Jasper just wagging his tail and licking them all the way to my door. Seriously. He was just a big teddy bear. Anyway....last Sat. morning, she called and told me Jasper had bit her as she ran by...I felt bad for her...she was on the way to the hospital. She ended up having 21 stitches in her arm. I also was confused...Jasper had never bit anyone or acted mean...why did he do this? Was it because he associated her with the big dog she had with her the first time, was it because she just ran by our house and never got to know him, what was the reason that a dog we have had for almost 6 years would do that? I think maybe he didn't really mean to hurt her, maybe just wanted her to stop running...I don't know....maybe I am just not wanting to believe that he would actually bite anyone. : ( Why would she keep running by our house knowing there might be a problem with it?? Anyway......he bit her, and she was actually very nice about it, and I felt bad for her....but I felt worse for my Jasper who had to be put down. We could never have kept him tied up or confined after almost 6 years of freedom.....he would rather have been dead than live like that. We actually did try for a couple days.....we confined him in the barn....he jumped on top of a freezer in the barn and then out a glass window about 3 feet above that. So then we tried tying him up.....he broke his collar. (it also broke my heart seeing him like that, he would look up at me with those big sad eyes like, why are you doing this to me???) So my husband and I talked, and we talked....neither of us wanted to put him down...we loved him...but we did not know what else to do...she said she would just call us when she was going to run by again....but we were just too worried that it might happen again, so we decided we had to put him down........it was so hard....: (

We didn't want to take him to the vet to be put down...going to the vet would have traumatized him and upset him in his last hours.....plus I had just talked to someone who had their dog euthanized and they said the dog had fought it and it had suffered some in the end and they did not recommend it. 

So, my husbands friend came over on Tuesday evening....Jasper always loved to follow my husband to our pond just down the road...so my husand got in his truck with his friend and drove down the road to the pond....Jasper happily followed.........I did not want to hear the gunshot....I was bawling so hard and I went into the house and screamed until I knew it was over and there was no chance of hearing the gun shot. ( I could have heard it in the house if I had not have made noise) and all of this was in front of my daughter whose 6th birthday was only a few days away....she helped me make noise so we couldnt hear it. 

My husband buried him down by the pond. My daughter, who knows that we put flowers on my parents graves at Memorial day, said maybe we could put bones on his grave someday.

Dang it.....my Jasper!!!!! I have cried a river!!!! I am so sorry Jasper...you did not deserve this! I have cried for days...I can't sleep at night. My husband says he did not feel a thing....that one moment he was happy and the next he was just gone...no pain. I miss him so much!!!!! He used to stick his big old head in the back porch door when I would feed them at night (the two dogs and all the cats) and he wouldn't back out until I petted him, and he would just look up at me with those big beautiful soulful eyes. I will miss him so much, and it just wasn't fair...it just wasn't right....it should never have happened.

Anyone who knew him knew what a sweet soul he had...he was a lover...he loved to be petted, and fussed over. And he wasn't a mean dog....he just wasn't.


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

I am sorry to hear that this happened to your neighbor and Jasper. This is pretty stunning to read.

I personally think that is it someone's right to be able to run where they want to run, without being threatened by a dog. Your neighbor should be able to run by in peace, even if she was with her dog ( on a leash I hope), as you should be keeping your dog in the house with you or outside only if you can monitor such activities. There is leash laws for a reason. It is up to you to be there to control the actions of your dog, even if he had never done anything like this before. I believe it is ultimatley up to the owner to be in control of their dog.

I hope Jasper is in a better place now. And sorry that you did not find euthanization to be a better option. Although the circumstances were much different, I found it was a peaceful, respectful way to say goodbye to our old girl when she was ready to go.

And you are right this situation wasn't fair, wasn't right, and should never have happened for your neighbor or your dog.. From when the problem started to the finish. 

Hope you all can heal and learn from this.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I'm so sorry. Hugs to you. I know how much you must be hurting. 

People have the right to jog by your house. Prey drive kicks in, and a loose dog--even in the country on a farm-- can be a danger to anyone running. The dog often can't help himself.. the urge to chase and nab kicks in. I am so sorry this happened to all of you. My heart is breaking for you.

If you get another dog, I would advise paying the expense to have the cheapest fencing possible between your property and the road. It's one of the expenses in keeping a dog in more populated suburbs, and a more costly endeavor to fence in the country, but it keeps joggers and bicyclists safe-- as well as nice calm walkers who suddenly see the dog and panic and run. A fence is a one-time expense. Fence = expensive, but fence = everyone is safe.

Hugs to you and your grieving family.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: kelsoI am sorry to hear that this happened to your neighbor and Jasper. This is pretty stunning to read.
> 
> I personally think that is it someone's right to be able to run where they want to run, without being threatened by a dog. Your neighbor should be able to run by in peace, even if she was with her dog (on a leash I hope), as you should be keeping your dog in the house with you or outside only if you can monitor such activities. There is leash laws for a reason. It is up to you to be there to control the actions of your dog, even if he had never done anything like this before. I believe it is ultimately up to the owner to be in control of their dog.
> 
> ...


I agree totally including regarding euthanasia. I am sorry for the loss of Jasper but you are responsible for containing your dog on your property and training him/her out of undesirable behaviour; if that had been a child running by, Jasper could have caused fatal injuries - 21 stitches is a significant injury in itself. 

I am surprised your neighbour offered to ring before her run and risk another injury when far less incidences are subject to lawsuits.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with the above posters, and also hope you all can heal and learn from this,

Situations like this always end up with the dog paying (this time with his life) for something that was not his fault. I would sincerely hope you will consider fencing for your remaining dog.
Diane


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Sorry you are going through this.









I just got a call from the owners of a dog that I fostered a couple of years ago. Very nice dog, nice temp but he is dog aggressive to the neighbor's dog. I guess their electric fence went out and he ran over to the neighbors yard and bit the dog for the second time and the dog needs stiches. 

They are unwilling to put up a fence. Obviously they are not comitted to managing the dog so that it will not happen again. They will probably end up putting him back in rescue. 

I am starting to see why some rescues require a fence.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I am sorry for your pain. But next time have the Vet come out and PTS your dog instead of your hubby shooting it in the head. My husband is a hunter and in the past has shot dogs that bascially went crazy because some one dropped the dog off in the country. Shooting an animal even in the head is not a humane way to PTS a beloved friend.

Your neighbor has a right to run down the road. You need to keep your dogs contained. I live in the country and I have several huge chainlink yards for my dogs. They are safe from other dogs running, they are safe because they can't just go running around. Also my dogs are in my house when I am not home.


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## Maedchen (May 3, 2003)

Wow,







I hope you never get another dog.
The only sympahty I have is for the poor dog. You failed your dog and killed him without trying for a solution (what about getting up a fence???). He probably suffered for quite some time until he was dead, too. How many MINUTES does it take to die from a bullet? Must feel like forever. Poor Jasper- it wasn't your fault, boy. RIP


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

A well placed bullet to the head can be a very quick way to die, but we'll never know if it was well placed.

In the future, get a physical fence. Do not get an invisible fence. You only need to fence in a small part of your farm. When you want them to run on your acreage, make sure they are VERY well trained to recall under even the highest distraction or have them on lead. The jogger had every right to run by your house and it was your responsibility to keep your dogs controlled. Your dogs are not above the law. This is a very harsh lesson to learn but it is the reality of life- your dog has instincts to chase, but you have the brains to control and train. If you get another dog, make sure you have a plan in place to ensure this never happens again.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

What a ~ horrendously ~ sad story, I feel for you so much! It's hard enough to lose a pet to old age or illness, this is worse. 

I cannot even imagine putting a bullet in one of my dog's heads - can't can't can't. I don't know how hubby managed to do that, I would imagine he will live w/that nightmare the rest of his life. My bro'in'law did that once w/his own dog after it bit my 6yo daughter in the face. We're talking one of the biggest Akitas ever born (huge dog!) and a very small 6yo girl. The damage could have been MUCH worse, she got very lucky with just a few stitches and some bruising and swelling. It seems people who live on farms (like my bro'in'law) handle that kind of thing easier than us "city slickers" or country bumpkins. Or maybe they just hide it better, I dunno.

The dog-uneducated general population seems to think that if a dog bites it's automatically a dangerous, aggressive, vicious dog. I used to think the same way, because that's what I was taught. People didn't used to know any different. A dog was a dog, doesn't matter the circumstances surrounding the bite. If it bites it has to go because it's a bad dog and it will bite again and again and again. 

I no longer believe that way, thank goodness. Now I believe that there are a number of things that ~ everyone ~ must look at surrounding any bite occurrence. It seems the bite victim was able to look past the bite itself. She offered to call you when she wanted to run so you could confine the dog somehow for an hour or so. That's pretty amazing after having 21 stitches!

I'm sure the last thing in the world you want to hear are people telling you about how this and other like-situations can be prevented. I doubt very much you're going to want to read the responses you're getting right now. But in time when you have started to accept that he's gone, I hope you'll come back and re-read what people are saying.

These are my thoughts. You can take them or leave them. 

1) I don't care how well behaved a dog is, if it's come to you every single time it's called for 10 years, never once left the yard without being told to, followed every single rule and regulation you lay down for it - it's still a dog which translates into the cold hard fact that some level of unpredictable ANIMAL behavior will ALWAYS live inside that dog because he's an animal first. In my mind, one has to always, always consider that their dog may one day do something totally unpredictable and totally out of character of the dog they know - because the dog always has the potential to revert to ANIMAL behavior if only for a split second - in this case long enough to bite someone. 

2) A dog is liking having a small child. You can tell that child to never ever cross the road without an adult right there holding the child's hand. You can bet your bottom dollar that there is going to be children that will a) challenge that direct order or b) forget that direct order. Children are normally inquisitive, they are known to wander off either physically or mentally into their own world of imagination. Bottom line is you cannot 100% trust a dog or a small child not ever. Anyone who does leaves themselves open to suffer some trememdous pain.

We live in the city and there are animal control laws which include leashing. I would dearly love to live in the country with room for my dogs to romp. But I would not allow my dogs to run loose w/o a fence and I don't mean an electric fences. I've seen a dog totally ignore a high end jolt from an e-collar when the dog is in a highly excited state. Jumping over a buried wire would have even less of an effect. I mean a real solid fence. Why? Because I've seen first hand the flipped out unpredictable behavior even a well behaved dog can exhibit.

I am not a dog behaviorist or a dog trainer and I'm new to big dogs over the past two years. What I'm trying to say is I'm not an expert and so this is only my thoughts. It sounds to me like the people that the dog was used to were moving at a casual pace, nothing that would excite the dog in a negative way. The lady jogger was different. Moving faster and had a dog w/her at one point. This was an isolated incident which seems like there was a very good possibility of working with to prevent further incidents. Your dog was not vicious but in his mind he may have thought he needed to protect you or your property. If the lady or her dog made direct eye contact w/your dog, that could be a contributing factor, if the lady or her dog gave off any kind of fear vibes, your dog picked up on that. There are many possibilities and of course I was not there so I'm just throwing out ideas.

I'm so glad that today more people are learning that just because a dog bites doesn't mean it has to be put down or in some other way gotten rid of such as a new home or whatever. More people are learning to look at the overall picture instead of just the fact that the dog bit someone. I think there's still a long way to go before it becomes a more common practice but any move in this direction is a good move in my opinion.

I do not envy you this grieving the process - you have to be going through ****. When you can, I hope you will take constructive steps to keep your dogs and passers-by safe. People do have a right to pass by your home w/o fear of your dog. Your dogs have a right to run free in your yard, but please consider getting a good strong fence to keep them all safe. When you think of the prey drive some dogs have, even a rabbit or squirrel running away from your dog could cause the prey drive to kick in and your dog to chase it across the street and get hit by a car.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I agree with your post and most of the prior ones. 

My dog used to chase joggers, walkers and anyone on a bike. After he ripped a person's jeans, thankfully a German Shepherd owner, I felt that was enough and enlisted the help of a few specialists, along with asking for advice from this board. 

The suggestions worked, but nonetheless I am very careful with the dog, and he is simply not allowed in the front yard, off lease.

Finally, I could never shoot my dog, nor have him put down except for serious health problems. 

In the original's poster's case there were many alternatives. Frankly, if the dog was as good as impied , a rescue group would take the dog and have him evaluated. And yes, there are other locations that would have been conductive to the dog. 

I feel bad for the dog, not the owner.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I read the original post again and am even more disgusted. 

This dog had options, and thank god for a good neighbor. A bullet through the head should not have been one of them. 

As you stated, these folks should never have another dog.

And I would bet anything my rescue group could have taken this dog, found a farm, or a rural location with a fenced in play area and the dog would have been just fine.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My dad has shot a buddy's dog, he is a hunter and knows where to put the bullet and agrees that the dog felt nothing. He says the dog was dead before it hit the ground. 

This was years ago before it was common to take a dog to a vet to be put down. 

Truthfully, I have seen a wasted cat require two separate injections because she was not going quickly enough. So, I do not necessarily believe that one way is more humane than another (if people know what they are doing). One is messier. But dead is dead. 

I am shocked that the owner of the dog was not sued, not only because of the 21 stitches, but because of the attitude that it was the fault of the woman jogging by. It was not. 

When I walk down the street with my dogs, I never know if the loose dogs in a yard, are truly loose or held back by invisible fencing. A jogger could think the same thing. But even if they do not, it is their right to jog down a public road. Sorry, but the dog's owner is completely to blame about the bite.

I kennel my dogs, where they cannot get out. Then I let one out at a time when I am right there. Otherwise the dogs are not safe. 

I am sad for the owner of the dog. The dog is gone and it is too bad, but he is not suffering. The dog's owner is, regardless to who is to blame. Just because we sometimes make poor choices, does not mean that we do not suffer from the consequences. 

There are so many foreseeable ways for our dogs to suffer and die, but we continue to wear collars on our dogs, allow them to run loose up to the house when we are right there, put them in with another dog, eat greenies or rawhide or any number of things. Then one day it happens and we regret it. 

No dog should be given the run of a farm that is not fenced in, ever. That is my opinion. However, this is common practice, especially where I am located. 

What is bad is that here is yet another GSD bite that will drive the legislatures, landlords, and insurance companies to ban or penalize all of our dogs. 

So please, PLEASE fence in a portion of your yard where your other GSD can remain when you are not right out there to supervise. I suggest a kennel, six - seven feet high, on concrete, and covered over. It does not need to be huge -- 10 foot by 10 foot should be plenty, if you plan to let her out regularly.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

People need to get over the "Farm-think." There is a large rural culture where people think "Hey.. I have land, I can let my dog run free-- UNFENCED!" But dogs have prey drive. And people jog, bike, pogostick, etc right by the front of the property (of course, they live there too..). This sets off the dog's prey drive.

In this case, instead of putting in a fence or contacting a rescue, they shot the dog. 

I do feel bad for the poster.

I just feel worse for the dog, because nobody bothered to think:
1.Fence, or
2.Rehome him where someone IS willing to put a fence up.

The few weeks of being banished to the barn or cellar.. or tied up lonely and frustrated to a tree.... agonizing torture enough without being shot to death by those he trusted to be able to think of solutions like fencing or re-homing him.

My hope is that the original poster accepts that rural life can never mean dogs running free on a farm if the dogs can have access to the road without a fence. Fences protect innocent joggers and dogs from this situation happening.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Unfortunately, even cheap fences cost plenty of money and time to put up.  They are not fool proof either. 

Also, there is not a pool of people who want to accept a dog that put 21 stiches into some woman's hand/arm. 

And a decent kennel is not cheap either. 

I think that if you love the dog, you either find the money, borrow the money, or you keep the **** dog in the house when you are not outside with it. 

This should have been done after the dog fought with the woman's dog, preferably before. 

But there were way too many chances/opportunities that were overlooked, before the dog had to go and bite someone.


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

I agree with selzer, there were plenty of opportunities to prevent this from happening that were overlooked. What a shame.


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## jsmurray31 (Oct 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1I read the original post again and am even more disgusted.
> 
> This dog had options, and thank god for a good neighbor. A bullet through the head should not have been one of them.
> 
> ...


I completely agree - there were many options that weren't even attempted. I'm sorry for your grief, but believe you brought this on yourself.

I had problems with Tripper and aggression towards Bosley. Euthanasia was never an option. Since this happened, I took the advise of many on this board and have controlled the situation......There has not been once incident since.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Until I started rescue, I never realized how important a fence is. Forpotty, play or whatever, I would give anything to have a yard that is partially fenced for my dogs. The "farm thing" has more opportunities to fence in a portion of their property for the dog(s) then most of us.

Unfortunately, I live on a flood plain, and the Wisconsin DNR will not allow me to fence in a portion of yard. They say it would restrict the flow of the river.

So I need to be darn careful with my German Shepherds.

I do not feel sorry for the original poster, only the dog, because LOL my group and I might have taken this dog.

Our dogs trust us, and shooting one through the head is ---------.


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## jsmurray31 (Oct 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1Until I started rescue, I never realized how important a fence is. Forpotty, play or whatever, I would give anything to have a yard that is partially fenced for my dogs. The "farm thing" has more opportunities to fence in a portion of their property for the dog(s) then most of us.
> 
> Unfortunately, I live on a flood plain, and the Wisconsin DNR will not allow me to fence in a portion of yard. They say it would restrict the flow of the river.
> 
> ...


Again, I completely agree. Lexi is a wonderful dog and has been so easy - she likes people and kids and it not protective of "her" home at all. She is not fond of small animals - so like you said, we have to be careful.

Now Tripper on the other hand is a lot of work - he is always testing me. I think we are nearing the end of it though - he is realizing what I will accept and won't. He also likes people and kids, not fond of small animals. He is not protective of the house at all, BUT, if a stranger tries to enter the fenced back yard???? Not good - barking and snarling. 

I have hired a lawn service to take care of my yard (I'm lazy with yard work, what can I say?). They met Tripper in the unfenced front yard and there were no issues. A couple of days later they came again and attempted to enter the backyard. He would not allow it. Fortunately, I was home and able to get him in the house, then blocked the dog door.

From that day forward, we have had a plan. They come to my house every Monday at the same time like clockwork. If I am home, the dogs are locked inside with me. If I am not, Tripper is either in his kennel or at work with me. They will also ring the doorbell and rattle the gate before attempting to enter. I don't feel like I am protecting the workers, but I am protecting Tripper so he is not in a situation where he feels he has to protect.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

While I feel very sorry for the original poster for the loss of their dog, what really breaks my heart is that the entire thing was 100% preventable. 

It's always very interesting when I read comments posted like the following, and as if they are inevitable 'facts'. When instead I see them as a situation that could have easily been trained, managed and prevented with just a little bit of proactive work by the dog owner.



> Quote: They are a very protective breed, but aren't mean.


When properly TRAINED so innocent people that are NOT threatening and NOT going to cause harm are safe from them. Without the training to teach appropriate protection (for a real situation) then you can end up with a mean dog that terrorizes everyone CAUSE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO SO.



> Quote: Anyway....long story short....this woman ran by our house on several occassions recently...the first time she ran near our house (not right by it, just a little ways away at the end of the gravel road, within site of my dogs) and she ran with her own big male dog, and Jasper started a fight with her dog...a male testosterone thing...our female was in heat and he felt his territory and his female was being invaded...


People are allowed to walk/run where ever they want unless it's into my house. And they WILL. To extend a dogs 'range to attack' to any area they even see and then start making excuses why it's ok 'male testosterone' 'female in heat' 'territory invaded'. NONE of those are even close to being a valid excuse in my book. If I knew my male was so over the top, I'd have neutered him in a second cause those are not traits I'd ever want passed on, and TWO of the excuses given would have been immediately removed (and my dog would be alive). A fence would have helped the dog know it's 'real' terrority and kept him in it (and alive).



> Quote:my husband stopped the fight, and he told me about it. I felt bad for her dog, and *I hoped it would not happen again*.


Hoped? HOPED! *HOPED!!!!* If that was my dog, I would have taken it as a clear message that I have a real problem and what can I do to KNOW people are safe from my dog, and KNOW it will not happen again. And if it did I would be in the middle and getting the bites, not an innocent stranger. My dog, my responsiblity, and it would be ME in the middle getting bit if I hadn't come up with the proper method to prevent this.



> Quote: She did not run near our house with her dog again ....she just ran right by our house without her dog...and *the dogs barked, and they didn't like it*, and my husband was outside a couple times when it happened and he yelled at the dogs...so maybe you would think it wasn't a good direction to run??


So you made her change her life (wanted to run and exercise HER well behaved dog to give it exercise) and now she's jogging alone. While YOU did nothing to modify your dogs behavior? What's with the 'and my dogs didn't like it?' . My dogs don't like going to the vet, getting a bath, having their toenails clipped, or when I leave to go to work. But it's not up to them to 'like it' or not. I've shown them it's ok, I've led them thru to know I've said it's ok, and they know from my LEADERSHIP (which doesn't consist of them making the decisions and THEM deciding their likes, loves, tastes, interests) what acceptable and not.


Oh it breaks my heart.







Because you clearly did (do?) love your dogs. But the fact you let this just roll along around you with so many clues/hints/warnings leading directly to this ending...............just making excuses for your dogs and BLAMING everyone else is the gist of this for me.

Because you could have had some of the best GSD's in the world with some great dog training classes, socialization, and a fence.

And now with that dog, he never had the chance.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Best part is, that we humans are so trainable. So now that you know better and what being a real responsible pet owner is, you can do better. 

So this situation never arises with your current or new dogs.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I read every post and this is so sad. I caould not express my thoughts and better than MRL's first post.

Sheena I am sorry you are grieving and it is hard but please take this unfortunate chain of events and learn from it. Put up a fence to keep your dogs safe. 

And plese do not think the folks here are heartless, quite the contrary, they all feel for you but hope you will do better for your other dog, and if you do not intend to breed (plesae do not) spay her.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Sheena
> 
> 
> I am devastated and heartbroken. This has been a horrible week for me. I had to put my beautiful AKC registered purebred German Shepherd, that I had for almost 6 years, down due to someone not using common sense.


I'm really sorry about your dog, but don't blame your neighbor, you were the one not using common sense.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

I would really like to hear from the OP on the fence option. 
Was that thought of at all? 
Was it the money?


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Your comments and concerns mirrow mine. Each rescue is different, and my two permanent dogs are also very different. 

One very protective of my property, the other would never threaten or bite. 

What disturbs me about the original post is this dog could have been saved, perhaps without much effort based on the description of the dog.


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## jsmurray31 (Oct 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1Your comments and concerns mirrow mine. Each rescue is different, and my two permanent dogs are also very different.
> 
> One very protective of my property, the other would never threaten or bite.
> 
> What disturbs me about the original post is this dog could have been saved, perhaps without much effort based on the description of the dog.


It is just so sad and most likely unecessary. At this point, I don't think the OP will be back, but maybe this post will catch someones eye who is having similar issues and realize there are MANY options!!


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## dearraine (Apr 6, 2007)

I do not think that the OP will be back either but who knows?

I am glad I saw and read through this thread. It's a good reality check to hear from all of you on your GSD's behaviors. 

We used to live on a farm but stopped letting Ruby run loose after she took off into a neighbors horse paddock once. Ruby is 1.5 years old. The farm is not visable and is seperated from the road by a heavily wooded area and a stream but the rest of the 100 acres is open to neighboring farms so there are plenty of places she could take off to. 

Now we live in a small development just down the road. Unfenced yard (for now- I'm planning one though- need excavating work done first due to a water drainage issue) Ruby is closely supervised and never off leash here. My husband takes her to the farm everyday where she has a big kennel and gets lots of walks from himself and the men who work for him. When she's home we take turns walking her and I have a 30 foot lead for play in the yard. 

I think my neighbors think I'm nuts because I don't walk around the neighborhood like they all do. I have a big backyard and I walk her back there. If she barks at them I correct her and make her sit/ down. Ruby has high prey drive and wants to chase small animals and running people. 

I have an 8 year old autistic son so I need to stay close to the house anyway. One neighbor from around the block has a collie that she shows in rally/ obedience. She comes up to my yard and lets the dogs play. She wants me to do more with Ruby but my situation limits me. 

Anyway- I was shocked and sad to read the story but reading throught he thread was good medicine. 

My husband has guns. I would never let hi to something like that. 
We had to put a sick cat down once. The country vet kept sending him home, poor thing was a mess no hope for recovery just more days of misery. We asked the equestrian vet neighbor to come over and he gave him a shot. 

Wouldn't shooting a dog in the head be against the law?


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Lorraine kudos for you for realizing that Ruby needs structure and limits for her mental welfare as well as to protect her from other things that can happen. I bet she is a wonderful companion for your son. 

I hope the OP does come back, she has posted here before, I remember her situation. I think she asked for advice about it once before. 

I would like nothing better than to have several acres for my dogs to run on an explore unleashed but that is not an option right now and if it were it would still be fenced for their safety.


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

OMG - I don't know what shocks and disturbs me more. The fact that you and your husband decided to shoot the dog (seems like "If we can't have him, nobody can"), or the fact that you involved your 6-yr old daughter in helping you make noise so you guys couldn't hear the gunshot. WTH???

I live in the country, on 15 unfenced acres, with a busy road in front of the house. I don't let my dog run loose, b/c there are too many things that could happen. He's a housedog, and one of the handful of times that I broke my own rule and let him follow us to the house off-leash (we had been out back playing with him on a long drag-line), he ended up getting hit by a car. MY FAULT, not the fault of the driver who had the nerve to drive past my house in their car. Thank God, Kodee ended up being fine. But if he'd been killed, I would have been totally to blame, for letting it happen, even unintentionally.

You have a lot of nerve coming here looking for sympathy. I hope you never get another dog. 6 years of loyalty and love, and it's rewarded with a bullet to the head, b/c you apparently didn't want someone with a fenced yard or some common sense to have him.







I feel very sorry for your daughter and your dog. I know accidents happen, but you should have seen this coming, and prevented it. Or at the very least, had the vet come to your house for a humane euthanasia. If you couldn't or wouldn't have a humane euthanasia done, you shouldn't have had your little girl help you cover up the sound of the bullet. I'd be willing to be she'll remember this for the rest of her life. Get a goldfish next time.


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: MaedchenWow,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

OK, I know I was hard on the OP also. But le'ts try to remember that the way we do things isn't always the way it is done every where.

It is legal in some area's to shoot a dog.

It rural farm area's it is common practice to put animals down by a shot in the head.

I said it was inhumane but necessity dictated that I have a horse shot in the head. She broke her leg, don't ask about the whole story, but her leg was a compound fracture and she was down flat on the ground, not a thing for a horse. I called all the Vets in my area that take care of horses and cows, it was going to be at least 4 hours before they could get out there. My horse was suffering and I couldn't take it. I know if I tried that I would probably miss because I was a wreck and not that great of a shot, I called a friend of mine to put her out of her misery. If that case presented itself to me again would I do the same thing and put an animal out of it's misery, yes.

If this was a common practice for the area the OP probably never gave it a second thought.

BUT, I wish she would have worked harder trying to find a solution for Jasper. Maybe she will learn by reading this thread that there were other solutions. 

I hope that she will do better at keeping her current dog safe. Check out more options don't give up so quickly on finding a way to contain your dog.

There are lessons in life and there are hard lessons in lfe. She had the hard lesson, so maybe some good will come out of this.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My uncle shot his own dog when I was very young. He was a conservation officer and also an avid hunter and fisher, so he always has a dog that goes everywhere with him and also retrieves birds. This dog in particular I believe he got before my cousin was born. On two occasions the dog bit my cousin, breaking skin. After the second incident, my uncle took the dog for one last romp in his woods and put him down. I have no doubt that he did not suffer. If the person knows what s/he is doing and can stomach it, to me putting an animal down is putting an animal down. 

However in both cases (my uncle's dog and the OPs), I think these situations were preventable and ultimately the dog paid the price. My uncle is now on his second dog since the one he put down and has changed to getting high drive field labs and keeping them in runs that he constructs so they aren't a danger to children (and my aunt is allergic to them indoors now). But his training, or lack thereof, has not changed. People wonder why his dogs behave the way they do (being guardy, out of control, mouthing and lunging at people and dogs) and mine listen to me and are well-mannered. When they see how my dogs are trained and how diligent and proactive I try to be as far as managing their environment and using every opportunity to train for distractions, they understand why all my uncle's dogs still turn out the same way. The only difference now is his kids are grown so there's no risk of the dog biting a child and being shot in the head.

My heart aches for the OP and the dog. I am trying not to be judgmental. I do think others made a good point about the "farm think". I hear the same attitude all the time about outdoor cats, "oh I could never bring her indoors after 5 years of freedom!" Then why are there so many people that successfully rescue feral cats to be happy indoor cats, and so many people who live in big cities in tiny apartments that have happy, well-adjusted dogs? To me when a dog has too much time and space freedom and not enough direction or interaction with its people, the dog makes up its own fun and usually that's bad things like digging holes, chasing pedestrians, killing someone's chickens, etc.

I am relieve the woman who was bit seemed apologetic and didn't threaten to sue.


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## madmaximus (Jul 23, 2007)

I completely agree with Timber1 and I am also amazed and very disappointed in you, Sheena. I would have done anything to prevent putting down my dog short of a court order and me going to jail. Jasper did NOTHING wrong, and clearly you the owner made the mistake of allowing a dog to run free in an unenclosed property, even if it is your own property. The only one at fault here is you and unfortunately Jasper had to pay for your error. 

First of all, where you ordered to put Jasper down? I re-read your posting and see no indication of this. And if it was voluntarily, I think you are a truly horrible person. Jasper would have been much better off locked up then dead regardless of how he felt or acted. Or you could have given him to a trainer or breeder and arranged to have him work as an patrol dog for some local company. There is always another option.

And then shooting or allowing someone to shoot a dog, especially your own dog, is outrageous. I can only hope that you are a very creative writer and this is all fiction that you created just to create a rise out of us...



> Originally Posted By: Timber1I read the original post again and am even more disgusted.


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## Annemarie (Feb 12, 2007)

> Quote: Oh it breaks my heart. Because you clearly did (do?) love your dogs. But the fact you let this just roll along around you with so many clues/hints/warnings leading directly to this ending...............just making excuses for your dogs and BLAMING everyone else is the gist of this for me.


I feel the same.

My God, this poor guy never had a chance







and then a bullet, disgusting.


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## Lola1969 (Mar 6, 2007)

Honestly, I just cannot believe this story. I think it has to be made up.


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## Debby (May 8, 2005)

Okay...wasn't going to reply to you all....believe me I wasnt....but I DO have something to say......

First of all.....thank you to the people here who actually helped me with their opinions and suggestions.....I do realize now that I made a mistake....one that cost my dog his life.....do I regret this...yes......very much......do I now blame the woman running by.......no......but to the ones who were rude and insulting.........in the future.....you need to watch what you say.....most people would not have read through the first page of this thread after being slammed like I was....right or wrong...but I DID read through it to find the good in it......I looked past the insults and slams and found the advice........which I thought was the reason you all were here.....but the ones who insult should learn to hold their tongues.....another dogs life could have been at stake......someone else may have stopped reading after the first few insults instead of reading further to get the good advice and that dog may not have been saved....my dad always said you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar........ thanks to those of you who were kind with your advice. Because of you, my female will not meet the same fate....no thanks to the ones who said I should not own a pet, should get a goldfish, how dare I come here looking for sympathy (which I wasn't) etc etc.....you know who you are and you know what you said...way to go to encourage a grief stricken person who has not done right by her dog because she didn't know any better, to do better in the future!!!!! A lot of dogs lives could be lost if you keep that attitude up when someone comes to you who has not done what you think they should....I was wrong.....I made a horrible mistake......I ADMIT it!!! But people here who treat people like me with the anger that I read in your posts......maybe should think about how in the future to better word things so that if someone has another dog, or might get one...you never know...they might.....if you truley care about the dog.....keep your tongue in your mouth and be civil so that people read further and get the advice they need that might very well help save another dogs life! I read beyond the anger and read the posts that were aimed to help me.....I appreciate that from those of you who posted opinions (very strongly but in a nice way ) and still got your point across without being offense or making the poster want to leave before they got the help and advice that they needed.
You guys don't know me or my life or anything about me and yet most of your over looked my grief and my need for good advice on how to keep this from happening again, and just belittled me. Way to go! Next time somone may not read further than your insults and not get the good advice that was intended. And also.....I am not so horrible....as far as the dogs not being tied up.....my husbands x-wife (yes....I am friends with her, have been for the past 14 years since I have been married to him...maybe because we both are decent people and can treat each other as such...) replied to my e-mail to some of my friends that I was upset after reading these posts...here is what she said....and no...I won't be back after this.....but next time someone comes here who isn't doing what you think they should and a dogs life has been ended and maybe another one's will be if they do not recieve the advice that they need..........talk kindly.......even if you hate what they have done.........talk kindly........another dogs life could be at stake....don't act like you did here. Here is hubby's x-wifes reply to me..............


Just checking email tonight & noticed something. You sent me a forward about the 70's that took me down memory lane and it was so awesome. And in this next email you are blaming yourself for what happened to Jasper because of something some other people said. 

And it just made me think - I truly understand letting dogs run loose because that's how I grew up too. That's how we did things back then, and so did you. I personally do not see anything wrong with it. I grew up being taught that it was cruel to chain/cage dogs up. 

Our dogs run loose also. My cousin **** lives down the road and his dogs run loose. We both have the same opinion on it - we love our dogs and we'd rather see them free than crazed on leashes or in cages. We try to rotate our dogs a little (simply because we have so many), but all of our dogs are out at some point during the day. 

I have one dog that is protective of our home and isn't particularly fond of strangers, especially men. That may mean that someone chooses not to drop off a package or something at my house. I don't mind. Personally, I live in the middle of no where and if I want to have a dog that's protective of my house and our family, I'm not sure why I shouldn't have that right. If he wasn't out there we'd have coyotes on our doorstep and other wildlife tearing into our buildings and killing our chickens. 

For a long time, **** had a dog that nipped at us if we walked by. We took walks in the other direction. Problem solved. 

I don't think it was cruel and abusive for you to have had Jasper run loose. I think it was a bit dense of Emily to go running by your house. I realize that in today's society, the popular opinion is that dogs should be chained up and that people who love their pets chain them up. If you were in town, I can get this. But it seems to me that if you live in the country you've chosen to have some distance between yourself and other people and that people should respect that. 

I am from the 70's too. Maybe I see things a little differently. I don't think that makes me wrong though. It just means my opinion is not with the popular majority right now when it comes to what is kind and what is cruel when it comes to animals. 

Anyway - I'm very sorry about your week. I hope you don't beat yourself up about what happened. It sounds like you did the best you could. I'm very very sorry for all that you've been through. Jasper was lucky to have you for an owner. I think you loved him very much and did the best that you could for him. 

Patti


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Sheena
> 
> And it just made me think - I truly understand letting dogs run loose because that's how I grew up too. That's how we did things back then, and so did you. I personally do not see anything wrong with it. I grew up being taught that it was cruel to chain/cage dogs up.
> 
> ...


Hi Sheena,

Glad you came back and most of all glad you were able to find something good and positive from posting here, even if you did not like what some people had to say. I think that is the great part of the boards here, you can disagree with some things, and I have, but even if I come away from a thread with a little bit more knowledgable about a topic, that knowledge adds up over time.









One thing I wanted to address as I did respond to you earlier in this thread (and the reason I quoted the above excerpt, I know it is not all what you said (in fact the email from your friend, but what I would like to address)

I do not think like said in your email from a friend above that many, if any people on this board (she did not say the people on this board but people in general )advocate chaining a dog up. In fact I would probably say NONE do. It is actually a very UNPOPULAR opinion to chain your dog up, check out the rescue forums here, there is many a dog that has lived a life chained up that people here are trying to save. So I hope you did not take that from this. 

I think others were trying to suggest other means...like being with the dog at all times off leash (with the right training and in the right environment) or on leash to monitor their activity, simply keeping the dog in the house with you, or at the very least being able to provide some sort of means to keep your dog contained (a fence, a dog run) With the best option being having the dog WITH YOU, cause that is where they want to be







So maybe you dont like crates, heck that is fine, but being with you is better than being loose for sure.

If "caging" like said above in the email, is something cruel, that would be hotly debated. If caging is meant crating than I really disagree with that. Many people crate their dogs. I do. I am talking about indoor crates, in our bedrooms. My dogs find their crates to be their little den, and often go lay in them for some peace and quite. And certaintly a better alternative to what may happen if I let them run around the streets, country, land, or even if I just kept them in the fenced in yard, they still might jump a fence, run off, or get hurt. They surely are not crazed animals for being crated but what I feel to be well adjusted representatives of the GSD breed.

No matter where you live, things have probably changed alot, but, even in the middle of nowhere if you are not watching your dog that is a huge risk. Maybe one you may be willing to take, and that is your choice.

People still have the right to walk, run wherever they want. In the end it will most likely be the dog that suffers and has to be put to sleep, not the person running by. 

We are responsible for our animals, and if we are not, they will suffer.

Hope you and your family are finding peace in the midst of all this and again, may Jasper rest in peace as well.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Welcome back, Sheena. I am still sorry for your loss. Thanks for having the courage to read through stuff. I can also understand people being horrified at what happened due to it being preventable. So, I do see both sides. Mainly, I see the dog as a victim-- and I am scared that your friend in the email can have the same situation happen to her.. or something even worse. I wish dogs COULD still run free safely. I grew up on a farm, too... but today, dogs need to be in a fenced area, and taken for long walks, excersised with balls and retrieval games.. just like in the 'burbs. No chains.. just more active involvement. Guess the world changes so much.


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## twolfette (Jan 26, 2007)

I've resisted posting because I didn't want to say anything horribly negative, because this story just broke my heart to be frank.

However, I just wanted to state as a child of the 70's, none of us wore seat belts back then, we've all learned. People have learned not to drink and drive, we've learned that our the emissions from our cars are bad things. 

Things change. No one is asking you to tie up your dog, folks are merely stating that your dog needs to be under control. And the people on the road have every right to be there free from harm from anything out of your yard. 

Enough said.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: I wish dogs COULD still run free safely.


If I lived in an area that I could do this, and my dog was friendly so I never had any issues with complaints/dog bites, I'd also LOVE it!

BUT if, instead, I had a dog that proved to be a problem and couldn't be trusted, then I'd deal with that to.

I know for me, the problem wasn't so much your dog running loose. Really.

It was you continuing to allow him to run loose after he had already shown he would bite someone (or their dog). So clearly couldn't be trusted to not cause a problem. I know I am responsible for my dog's and their behavior, and if I need to build a fence for a dog I own, then I would. If I needed to socialize and train a dog to help, I would. I personally believe in being PROACTIVE to prevent problems before they happen, and immediately take responsiblity to take charge when a new problem crops up.

I do NOT have a fence in my yard. I do not chain my dogs up either. I also do not let them run free. There are many different ways to have happy and content dogs.

Are my dogs suffering cause I don't let them run free? No way! They are happy in the house. Happy in the car. Happy in the yard (with me always present and responsible for their behavior). 

Instead I plan activities and events for them and we have fun together.

Hiking








Swimming








Socialization with friends and their dogs








Trying herding








Obedience classes (and socialization)








Taking them on vacation to meet new friends, new dogs, new kids and HORSES








Playing with my dogs








Agility classes and trials
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVxUCMcEFN8









So while my dogs don't run loose on acres of land all day..... I feel they have pretty good lives!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Sheena, in today's society, a dog that's allowed to run loose WITHOUT any control or supervision is a liability and a lawsuit waiting to happen.



> Quote:I don't think it was cruel and abusive for you to have had Jasper run loose. I think it was a bit dense of Emily to go running by your house.


If she owns dogs, one day she will learn the same lesson you've had to learn. *I* have the right to walk in *MY* neighborhood's *PUBLIC* streets without fearing that I may be attacked by a dog, AND I also have the right to carry means to defend myself in case of a dog approaching me with ill intentions, up to and including *KILLING* the dog, so long as I must defend myself (I hope I never have to, but I have been approached none too friendly by at-large dogs in the past and chased them off). Everyone has this right. You do NOT have the right to keep a dog at large. You have the RESPONSIBILITY of keeping your dog safe and under control and also keeping the world safe from your dog. 

My dog, like MRL's dogs, lives a great life. We don't have a fenced yard but we do go to the local dog parks for good runs and fetches. We go on walks and he carries a backpack. We hang out at training a couple times a week and do agility. He travels with us when we visit the folks and has a ball playing in the canal and hanging around on a SUPERVISED tie-out while we're right there with him. We teach him things to do, we play with him inside and out, he knows how to fetch the paper and is learning how to fetch the remote (going to teach that dog how to enable my laziness







). If he ran loose, he'd have fun until he got hit by a car, attacked, or shot. And let me tell you, out here, people are likely armed to the teeth. Maybe not in my community but if he makes it to the rural areas, he's fair game and I understand it because it was my fault for not keeping him contained and THEY have the right to protect their property which usually includes livestock.



> Quote:I am from the 70's too. Maybe I see things a little differently. I don't think that makes me wrong though.


It's not the 70s anymore. X-Wifey has some dangerous thinking there and is VERY wrong. To not adapt to today's society is potentially fatal for any dog in her household. Sheena, I encourage you to stick around here and learn with us. Not a single person here is perfect or does things right all the time. Almost all of us here realizes this and hangs around to learn and improve. A few people here have told of how they operated with dogs 30 years ago compared to today and are shocked at what they did back then. But we learn, we grow, we change. You screwed up big time but you still have another dog who relies on you, so if you hang out here, your other dog will likely benefit a lot and so will any future dogs.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DianaMSheena, in today's society, a dog that's allowed to run loose WITHOUT any control or supervision is a liability and a lawsuit waiting to happen.


 I thought in light of the discussion this was interesting. On MSN home page this morning


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I cheer the OP on if she is still reading and learning. It takes courage to change the way you think. However, please accept that the ex-wife in that email is dangerously wrong. "I remember how it was, and we still get away with it, so..." the ex-wife condoning, blaming the jogger, etc.. may make you feel comfy, but a dear dog is dead because of the way the ex-wife still thinks. 

"Farmthink" is hopefully harder for the ex-wife to change than it is for you. You can grow beyond that. I had to. I grew up on a farm in the 70s.. but we need to live in today's world, where Emily has a right to jog on a public street, and where farmfolks do contain their dogs and do excersise them on leash... just as much involvement as folks in the 'burbs have with their dog's excersise needs.


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## Ilovealldogs (Nov 17, 2006)

I for one, have not changed my opinion. I hope I have made a mistake, but I didn't see in the original post where she was looking for advice. I only saw how "upset" she was saying she was. Sure, she may have made a mistake and is now "sorry", but that wasn't really in the original post. I do not feel sorry for someone that doesn't even have the decency to take their friend to the vet (or have a vet come to the home) to humanely euthanize the animal especially for something that could have been prevented. You can bash me if you like, but she had other options and I am glad that she now sees that as most of us did. I also am dismayed that she is stating that other dogs could have died because of the negative posts, etc. Are you kidding me? She also states that luckily the female won't meet the same fate. She eludes that it is because of the "positive" comments on here. What?!? I'm not bashing her, but come on....


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## 3dogcrew (Apr 23, 2006)

I have followed this topic from the beginning. I have wanted to reply and then thought, nope not going to go there. Now I can't resist.
First, may Jasper RIP.
Sheena, I hope you listen to what is being said by the many caring people on this board.
There are many ways of thinking.
I USE to be a person who let our dogs run loose. We have had many canine members of our family for 33 years. Yes , years ago I opened the front door , let the dogs out for the day, not thinking a thing of it. They stayed around the area. We have 22 acres , live on the end of the road.Perfect place, right? Not so.There are also 24 camps that border our property.Back in the 70's my dogs would visit everyone, and everyone looked forward to their visit. Heck, they were given eggs and bacon for breakfast from some of the campers !People walk our road every day down to the lake. Yes its a public road that runs thru our property.My way of thinking was simply I live here and so do my dogs, they can run. Not so. My husband and I along with our dogs must have had a very special guardian angel looking over all of us all those years.None of our dogs ever bit or hurt anyone, or got hurt themselves.
People and society change. Times do change and we must change sometimes also.
Liability as a dog owner is greater these days than back in the good old days.
We have a new generation of canine family now, our thinking has changed. Our dogs all go to class, are socialized properly. Crate trained as pups. There is no way I would even consider opening my front door in the morning and just let them out in the yard. We still live in the same place. Its called consideration for others, as well as a safety issue for both people and dogs.People have a right to walk the road, they have a right to jog by, or ride bikes.... .Keeping your dog with you is not as difficult as it may seem.Our guys are happy, healthy and safe.Safety for everyone involved is the top concern. what if your dog visits the neighbors.... how do you know your neighbor hasn't put out rat poisoning, or left antifreeze out in the open?Its not worth the chance.
I know my dogs, but my dogs are not allowed freedom you( and what I use to think they deserved). For me, its for their safety that they are in a 10 x 24 kennel outside when I can't be outside with them while I'm home. As I said, my guys are happy and well adjusted. I protect our guys from the humans around.
Raising a (human) child has changed since the 1970's, just as raising a pup.
Please rethink. Sometimes changes need to be made.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Great post, 3dogcrew!


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## jsmurray31 (Oct 28, 2007)

While I am very happy she came back and said she understood she was wrong, I'm still not sure......... To say in the beginning that she made a mistake, but then end it with that email? 

I don't know........


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I'm also glad she came back. And with the 'when I know better, I do better' I'm hoping she's taken in some of our posts in the way they were meant.

For a dog's benefit.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I agree! 99% of us here are for the dog. We do have to remember that the way to the dog is through the owner. I apologize if any of my comments were hurtful but please remember "for the dog".

Glad you came back!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We are passionate about this not just because a dog has died after repeated warnings of problematic behavior, but because when dogs bite people or injure people's dogs, dog ownership becomes threatened. When our breed of dog is implicated, we end up on lists where people will not rent to us or sell us homeowner's insurance etc. And then we have to be concerned with breed-specific legislation. 

Most of the people responded out of sheer pain for your animal. Maybe I am the only one responding out of selfish pain for our breed. And maybe not. But we are a forum of GSD people, you cannot really expect us to be happy about a story where a dog is dead where it was so preventable it hurts. 

I grew up in the seventies too. And now I live in the country. Nothing ticks me off worse than a breed with a reputation roaming freely out in the country where I live. I used to have a dog next door to me that would not let me get my dogs into my car. No one cared, not the dog warden, not the sherriff, not the owners. It was my tough luck if their dog was ready to attack mine the moment I came out to put them in my vehicle. People should not have to live that way. Containing your dog is a big part of responsible dog ownership. Containing does not equal chaining. It means controlling the dog so it is not a nuisance to other people or their properly contained property. 

"Horribly upset....I miss him...." may not be looking for advice, but was looking for sympathy. Anyone who has had to put a dog down feels for you, as I do. But most of us cannot sit by and hear people making dangerous statements and say nothing. 

You claim that another person may not learn from the good advice in this thread. But if we said nothing at all, another person may get the feeling that we affirm this situation, which can be just as deadly to people's dogs. 

Good luck with the bitch you have. Please do not give her so much freedom that she loses her life as well. A loose dog need not be aggressive to end up dead.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

MRL,

I love your post and the pictures. Pics 2 and 3 remind me are similar to waht I do with my Shepherds. The one with the horses reminds me of my breeder who takes Timber once yearly. And yes, the GSD is pretty good at retrieving. Mine is, and yours are looking good. 

Like you I do not have a fence, but only because I cannot. Because I live in a flood plain the DNR will not allow it, so especially with rescues I need to be cautious. 

What bothered me about the original post was the person was looking for sympathy, and if I made a mistake, I would take responsibility to protect the dog, and feel horrible about a biting incident.


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## momtoduke (Sep 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lola1969Honestly, I just cannot believe this story. I think it has to be made up.


my thoughts exactly!! sounds so fake!! DRAMA LIKE!!


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