# Article-regarding rescue v hoarders



## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Interesting article on rescuers vs hoarders. I thought it was very balanced. 



The Thin Line Between Dog Rescuing and Dog Hoarding - Page 1 - News - Dallas - Dallas Observer


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The part about rescuers is good. I don't think one could call what Steel did "rescue", though.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Very interesting article. I kept thinking that at some point the facts regarding her adoption process would come out, since the neighbor was quoted as saying that she didn't adopt any dogs out. But they never explored that issue, other than the neighbor's quote. Does she adopt dogs out? If she does, I would be more willing to "label" her a rescuer and not a hoarder. 

There were some unanswered questions for me. Did she pull dogs from the shelter? Pick them up off the street? Do the dogs in her control receive vet care?

I do think it is a great idea that the issue of rescue compared to hoarder is getting out there. 
Sheilah


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

There was a rescuer here who turned into a hoarder. But I think the illness was already there.
Dead dogs all around the yard, inside, sick dogs all over. She was finally 'busted' when she adopted out a litter of parvo puppies.

Animal Abuse: Rescue neglect, 60 animals found, more dead - Kennewick, WA | Pet-Abuse.Com Animal Cruelty Database

I don't care who you are, you cannot manage 60 animals by yourself. 
I saw her driving dogs to vets all the time, and I saw her at Petsmart on her "group" adoption days.
But the shelter refused to give her pets. We volunteered there at the time and the manager said she'd come in with ringworm all over her face and body and want more cats. He quit giving her pets long before this all caught up to her.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I also think that we shouldn't overlook _breeders_, just because they have a proper permit. Some of the worst hoarders in our area anyway, are breeders with puppy mill situations going on.
Animal Abuse: Puppy mill - Kennewick, WA | Pet-Abuse.Com Animal Cruelty Database


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

In my experience, hoarders don't let their animals go. They either bring them in with the intention of keeping them forever or they have such intense adoption procedures and rules that nobody EVER qualifies and animals stay right where they are. So, in my experience, having adoptions taking place and being able to physically give up animals speaks more to a rescue type situation and not a hoarding situation. Hoarders, by definition, can't bring themselves to give up whatever it is they are fixated on.

If an individual has animals coming in, but also has animals going out on a regular basis, that is not a hoarder (to me). So far, I have yet to deal with a hoarder that hasn't presented the same type of inability to actually, realistically see the conditions that their behavior has caused the animals. They might try to hide it (by not getting vet care for animals, by not allowing people into their homes or being very selective about which animals are seen in public), but when confronted with the conditions they have tons of rationalizations (that they probably have used to sooth their own concerns early on). 

For me, the article never really gave enough information to figure out where the woman with the ticked off neighbors fell on the rescue-hoarding spectrum. 
Sheilah


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

msvette2u said:


> I also think that we shouldn't overlook _breeders_, just because they have a proper permit. Some of the worst hoarders in our area anyway, are breeders with puppy mill situations going on.
> Animal Abuse: Puppy mill - Kennewick, WA | Pet-Abuse.Com Animal Cruelty Database


But are puppy mills "hoarders" or just following a business model that does not put any importance on the healthy maintenance of breeding stock? 
Sheilah


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

sit said:


> But are puppy mills "hoarders" or just following a business model that does not put any importance on the healthy maintenance of breeding stock?
> Sheilah


I guess it depends on whether or not they sell their stock?
I know hoarding is an actual mental illness, which includes not being able to distinguish that you're actually harming these animals more than helping them, although there's probably a different term for that issue than I'm using.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

The definition of "puppy mill" that I grew up with was a substandard breeding operation where the health and living conditions were deplorable for the dogs and all focus was on the production of large numbers of litters for sale. Pump them out out and then ship them out.
Sheilah


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Breeders can be horrible hoarders, especially when they can't get rid of their dogs and keep on producing. We have one like that in Germany. Eventually it does turn into hoarding if they don't face the truth about their breeding program.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Mrs.K said:


> Breeders can be horrible hoarders, especially when they can't get rid of their dogs and keep on producing. We have one like that in Germany. Eventually it does turn into hoarding if they don't face the truth about their breeding program.


That's what I was thinking too. 
I mean...it's not just faux rescuers. Look at that Texas case. Sick and dying and dead animals all over. But nobody ever uses the "H" word with them.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> That's what I was thinking too.
> I mean...it's not just faux rescuers. Look at that Texas case. Sick and dying and dead animals all over. But nobody ever uses the "H" word with them.


Absolutely. There is a fine line between rescuing, breeding and hoarding. 


My husband said I was a hoarder because I wanted a third dog. He had no idea what a hoarder really is and I was seriously upset with him. From that day on I made him watch "Animal Hoarding" with me. He was like "Why are we watching that." and I told him "So you know what animal hoarding really is. Don't EVER call me a hoarder again." 

And he never did! 

I do have to say though, when you follow the rescue pages on facebook and you say as much as a single word, you get bombarded with messages to "rescue that poor puppy." 
There is NO escape other than keep blocking people and many have been pressured into rescuing dogs that go way above their capacities. 
Another reason why I'm not doing it anymore.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I think a lot of hoarding situations started out as rescue that just went awry.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

And it can easily happen to anyone. 

At first, you just want to help and then you get into that vicious cycle and the worst is, if you have nobody around you that is caring enough to actually stand up and do what has to be done.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Our foster, Ashley, came from a trailer (single-wide). There were 41 dogs kept in there and it is estimated that they hadn't been outside in 18 months (consider the implications of that!) The windows were boarded up, which most likely explains Ashley's fear of moving cars. HOWEVER, there were big bags of dog food around. The dogs didn't appear to be abused. And all 41 dogs had names!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Bridget said:


> I think a lot of hoarding situations started out as rescue that just went awry.


I disagree.
Even in the article, the woman apparently started out hoarding because nobody could get a dog from her. They tried. 

We have dealt with hoarding situations - often a stray dog or two show up and the people begin caring for it. This woman (in the story) was taking in strays off the street. However, it all goes awry because these people cannot recognize that if you don't have the money to spay/neuter and otherwise properly these "rescues" (and ultimately find them homes of their own outside of yours) that you're not doing these animals any favors.
A rescue, properly run, knows you don't get animals you cannot vet. 
In fact there's many situations I know of right now that the people keep getting pets they believe they are rescuing, yet there's no vetting done - at all! One of them is actually listed on Adopt-A-Pet, with her non-vetted dogs going for $25.00. Then - in another paragraph, you can opt to have the rescue spay/vaccinate/chip, etc. each for an added fee, rather like an ALA Cart menu!!

How is that rescue? Real rescue, that is? 

Another situation involved a woman who kept taking in cats, but nobody was taken to a vet, and these animals were interbreeding, covered with fleas and had other illnesses, that is not rescue. That is hoarding, because regardless of the number of animals, a few things are there, in common - no vetting whatsoever, a belief she is helping these animals (when the animals are becoming sicker and sicker and dying) and then refusal to relinquish the animals she says she "loves". 

We've cleaned up 3-4 more situations where people just started off with a dog or two and it blossomed into 20 or more dogs that were just running all over, living quite feral with no handling, etc. 

Legit rescues don't do this to themselves, there's structure, organization, accountability and common sense which says "we have no funds, we can't get more dogs", or "we have no space, we can't get more dogs until these are adopted". Legit rescues don't fancy themselves rescues because they took in a dog, but didn't vet (spay/neuter) it so it became pregnant on their property, etc. Which again I could give you examples of, the faux rescues who just take dogs and/or cats for the sake of taking them, not to improve their lives and ultimately find them their own homes.


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