# Weak jaws



## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

Would you consider this a weak underjaw. Blitz always seems to be dropping toys and object when running around. He's almost 12 months


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

show his bite from the front 

show his dentition and bite from the side (lift the lips)

doesn't look well developed


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

Shouldn't the back teeth be coming in more at this age?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

There's nothing about his jaw shape that would keep him from holding onto or gripping a toy. That's more likely coming from his puppiness (that's probably not an actual word) and not ever having been asked to hold onto a toy.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

he has a short snout btw. I think he just has a soft grip when it comes to toys and what not. Every time we play fetch he drops the ball once or twice on his way back, it's pretty funny to watch i was just curious. He won't be doing any protection training or bite work honestly so im not too worried about it. I just like to learn more about the breed


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

How old is he. Give him bones to chew. Inintially i suspected my male to have weak jaws, but as he matured iy improved. Now he carries brick (seriously) in his mouth. I think it is important to wait and see for atleast 18 months


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Our WL male was a ball and toy dropper when younger and he has a fairly large muzzle. He tended to chew, mouth, or even hold the ball "squished" off to one side of his mouth and he'd make it shoot out (he still does this). I think it's just them having fun with it rather than solidly latching on. I doubt your pup has any issue with jaw strength.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

I know it's considered a "fault" in the breed but like I said he won't be doing any bite work. He's my first ever GSD and dog and couldn't have been more perfect for that. My next one will be a working line for sure.....further down the road though


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

A good test of his jaw strength might be to time how long it takes him to completely destroy a bully stick or shear the knot off of a rawhide bone.

Jack drops things while running all the time, and it's usually because he's bouncing around, mouthing the ball, or getting distracted. He does much better with sticks. That said, he's capable of puncturing a Jolly Egg so he can carry it, and does so with little effort--and that is some hard plastic. Ours destroys 6-inch bully sticks/rawhide knots in about 20 minutes when he's focused.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a weak or under developed lower jaw is a conformational fault 
as are missing teeth, under shot , over shot .

it does not have anything to do with improving the dogs chew power

nice head on an older style ASL
Alert of Mi-Noah's


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

Got him some bully sticks!


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

BlitzRomman said:


> Got him some bully sticks!


I buy these for Remi boy...

https://www.chewy.com/usa-bones-chews-jumbo-bully-stick-12/dp/130512

Very economical when buying bulk (relatively speaking). He gets a couple a week, especially when I haven't been able to give him proper exercise. He gets one, works it for about 20 minutes, then goes to sleep (and leaves me alone:grin2.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

I got him the 6" ones, same thickness as those....finished it and 20 min


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

carmspack said:


> nice head on an older style ASL
> Alert of Mi-Noah's


 Thanks for sharing. Interesting to note that the tibia bone seems to be quite long and the dog is over-angulated. But hocks are good. Some people suggest that only the modern showline dogs with slope back, have these issues of overangulation and loose hock. Even dogs with level back can be overangulated


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Alert was used a good head selection using American show lines .

Today's heads are long and narrow , with poorly developed lower jaw "needle nose".

Today's ASL's still tend to be long , loose and , yes , over angulated.

ASL's toplines BACKS are not the same as West German show lines. So off course dogs with level backs
can be over angulated.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I've never encountered a dog who dropped toys from a weak jaw, toys do not take a lot of power to hold onto. Likely your dog is just getting distracted or too excited, doesn't focus on the toy. 

My Shepherd has no tug motivation, he will not pull and often lets go of toys when I grab onto them, but with other dogs he seldom loses at tug. It's just a motivation thing.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

carmspack said:


> Today's ASL's still tend to be long , loose and , yes , over angulated.
> 
> ASL's toplines BACKS are not the same as West German show lines. So off course dogs with level backs
> can be over angulated.


Yes the significant change in the WGSL occured in the Anticlinical region of the back of a gsd. Louis Donald explains it very clearly. See
The True Back of the German Shepherd Dog - The German Shepherd Dog

In the post 1970 WGSL dogs, "...It’s a bit like someone has put the tip of their finger under the spine in the middle of the anticlinal region and pushed the spine upward...." ( Louis Donald)

This was done with an aim to make the back strong. But this change was subsequently exaggerated by breeders who confused style with type.

They bred dogs with raised anticlinical region even if the dog had over angulation or loose hocks. Also the hip positions became lower.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

tezpur you are jumping around to topics having nothing to do with a weak lower jaw.

I provide a picture of an older style ASL as an example because the dog has a nice head , and his jaw is 
open so that blitzromman can see width and depth and length and you bring in WGSL backs.

I don't think this jaw , which is pretty common , prevents the dog from holding on to toys .

That is probably more of a temperament or drive issue . Maybe he doesn't have possessiveness .


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

My dog is very into his toys. Outside though, he often shoots the ball out of his mouth. He compresses it down with his jaw and then if the pressure gets to one side of the ball, it shoots out like a slingshot. Nothing to do with jaw strength. It has to do with where he's gripping the ball.


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

He loves to play tug and won't let go. However he does bite with his front teeth most of the time.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

BlitzRomman said:


> He loves to play tug and won't let go. However he does bite with his front teeth most of the time.


make him work harder so that he changes his grip to the back .


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

TES....,
That the best series of articles on GSD changes I've ever seen! Hours of reading! Everyone should read them. They are technical but well documented with pictures and drawings. I'm no breeder nor expert on the GSD construction. I don't even have one today. My SCH dog was from very old school German lines. Working line it was called then. He was much like the 1960 version. Higher back line. Even with my limited knowledge and probably flawed he was a very good and extremely strong dog. We often rode bikes for 10-15 miles before or after training several times a week. Training was almost every day. One memorable trial he ran the AD 12.5 miles, performed the SCH III trial event, then ran an FH track in the evening. 

I see so many GSD in training classes that are just a plain mess. 

I can't have a GSD in our appt so...

Today I have an Aussie from working lines. While smaller she is built like the pre 1960 GSD. maybe more Mal like. Very square. Never the less while no track racer she can trot forever in any weather and she is incredibly agile. She is a joy to train and work with.
Byron


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## BlitzRomman (May 24, 2017)

It's sort of interesting that Blitz has the pre 1950's style back.


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