# Pressure and Stress in Training



## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Lets talk about pressure and stress in training.For the purposes of this thread I am going to define stressors as anything ranging from physical pain, environmental pressure (slippy floor, pool of water, loud noises), to handler corrections.

The fad in dog training these days is compulsion free training. You commonly hear statements like "I train without force, fear or pain" insert satisfied expression and a back pat. 

Moving beyond the emotional nature (obviously intentional) of that statement, lets drill down on the truth.

I ask is this truly a viable or realistic outlook on training? What do pain and fear really mean? It could be different things to different dogs. Are we really doing our dogs a favour by not exposing them to these stimuli? 

Pain and fear can be ellicited in just about every species of animal including humans by stimuli that trigger chemical processes creating the physical and mental stimulation we identify as "pain and fear".

Why do humans and animals have these reactions? Obviously to facilitate learning that contributes to an individuals chances of survival and success. 

Example:
A mother dog will physically discipline her pups elliciting pain for socially unacceptable behavior. The pups feels the pain, ceases the behavior and is less likely to do it again as it fears the consequence of pain for the negative behaviors. 
Thus the pups are more likely to avoid the socially unnaceptable behavior and are more likely to be successful in a pack environment thus increasing their chances of survival.

Lets take it further:

Human mother sees her child playing in the road, she grabs the child, scolds her and sends her to her room. The child who can make a clear connection between her actions and the punishment she recieved for them (scolding and timeout). She is less likely to repeat the behavior as she FEARs the loss of her freedom. In addition she fears another scolding from her mother as it causes her emotional distress.

Lets translate this to training.

Every trainer has different goals, reliable pet obedience, sport competition, LEO work, PPD type training etc. 

The importance of reliable and accurate task completion varies from life or death to losing a point for a crooked sit. 

Im going to assume everyone on here knows and has an opinion about how effective or non effective punishers are to the training process be it in the learning or proofing process. 

What I am going to put out there is an opinion that is held by certain trainers that stress and pressure in training administered fairly and clearly not only create a more reliable dog but an overall stronger dog. 

Stronger because: 
-The dog is more confident in his work as he fully understands the task and expectations surrounding its completion.

-The dog has encountered stress in the training process ranging in intensity. The dog has learned to overcome the stress (whatever it may be) and complete the desired task thus removing the stressor and achieving the reward.

-The dog is better able to handle the stressors it encounters in daily life and continue to function effectively even if they are dissimilar to stress the dog was exposed to in the training process. This is because he is somewhat desensitized to the chemical processes that stress induces. The added effect being stimuli that used to create stress such as low intensity pain or loud harsh noises no longer have any meaningful effect on the dog or his work.

-The dog is more forgiving of handler error or induced stress and will be able to function effectively through it.

-In the context of real work greater levels of stress will weed out lackluster candidates and improve the gene pool and end product (see KNPV) 

-The bond between handler and dog is strengthened through the learning process and trust is developed through overcoming barriers be they physical or mental.


Ill use another analogy. When we train for competitive sports (hockey, football, MMA) we expose ourselves to stress, pain and often as a byproduct fear to varying degrees. 

When soldiers or LEOs are trained there is mental, physical and emotional stress throughout the training process. 

In both groups despite radically different end goals overcoming stress creates mental and physical toughness and derives a stronger sense of self confidence. As individuals they become effective in the completion of their target tasks.

In relation to working or sport dogs, we want our dogs to be king kong, save lives, protect your home, fight the man, overcome environmental pressure etc. How do you square not exposing the dog to stress during training and development while maintaining the above expectations?

Obviously how much pressure or stress a dog is exposed to during training will depend on the dog itself, the desired outcome of the training and the handlers skill as a trainer.

I am not saying that all stress and pressure is GOOD nor is it all BAD but to ignore its value to the teaching and development process ignores evolution and what is inherrent in all intelligent creatures.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

You make some really good and interesting points.

I'd love to know more about your personal experience with training dogs.

How long have you been training dogs, what sort of training do you prefer or find the most successful, are you a trainer yourself?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Harry and Lola said:


> You make some really good and interesting points.
> 
> I'd love to know more about your personal experience with training dogs.
> 
> How long have you been training dogs, what sort of training do you prefer or find the most successful, are you a trainer yourself?


This thread really isnt about me..

Suffice to say I have been payed to train dogs, I have worked dogs in real life application, I have recently become involved in sport over the last 1.5 years.

I know less then many and more then some. 

If you want more info you can PM me.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I think pressure and stress in training are necessary in direct proportion to the stress that the dog will undergo in the work that it will be doing. I also think that environmental stress in training is very important for every dog, as you never know what type of distractions the dog will face.

I think there is a big difference between outside stress placed on the dog and conflict with the handler induced by confusing or undue harsh corrections. A good understanding between the handler and dog can relieve stress on the dog, even in stressful situations.

This is an interesting topic with many different angles to pursue, as stress can come from a multitude of sources, and different dogs will perceive different stimuli in a unique manner. Training the right type of dog using compulsion is hardly stressful, while training another dog in the same manner will create much conflict with the handler.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

David Winners said:


> *I think pressure and stress in training are necessary in direct proportion to the stress that the dog will undergo in the work that it will be doing*. I also think that environmental stress in training is very important for every dog, as you never know what type of distractions the dog will face.
> 
> I think there is a big difference between outside stress placed on the dog and conflict with the handler induced by confusing or undue harsh corrections. A good understanding between the handler and dog can relieve stress on the dog, even in stressful situations.
> 
> This is an interesting topic with many different angles to pursue, as *stress can come from a multitude of sources, and different dogs will perceive different stimuli in a unique manner.* Training the right type of dog using compulsion is hardly stressful, while training another dog in the same manner will create much conflict with the handler.


The bolded is important. 
I also believe that adding pressure and stress(when done correctly) will give the dog more confidence after they've worked thru it. It can build the level of trust and respect with the handler and strengthen the bond....when done correctly.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Perhaps its too broad in scope. What I had in mind when it comes to environmental is along the lines of challenging the common notion that if a dog is afraid of something you should just manage and avoid the stressor or spend months or even years tip toeing around the edges of the scary thing be it stairs or gun fire.
You commonly hear a variety of excuses like "he shuts down" as an excuse for why the dog is not being helped to overcome the stress.

In KNPV the dogs are taught to bite in a process that places pressure on them from the get go. Dogs are taught with pressure obedience, good biting behavior etc. The dogs learn to push through the pressure to achieve the bite and win the fight.

Obviously there are hopeless cases but I think in many cases the dogs are not given enough credit and are made weaker instead of built up by the training process.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Perhaps its too broad in scope.



Lets talk about some stress's. Are gun shots? Is obedience with multiple decoys on the field a stresser? Making the dog bite through a tunnel or into a dark room, slick floors? Is this what you're going after? Or are you talking more about correction type stressers? Like you will sit or I will make you sit.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

stress is stress. the effects are the same. So having to sit in an open crate while he watches the other dogs eat might be stressful the same as a gun shot to another dog. Or watching his handler walk away on a motion exercise. Stress is physical and mental and its effects are the same. What's the dogs perception? Is it stressful when he can't figure out how to get your hand to open up and give him that yummy treat?

I think the obvious answer is all dogs have to respond and learn to deal with stress. it's an important part of growth and development for all animals. Now does that mean I'd use that as a reason to be extra hard on my dog? I think that mentality is for the **** swingers out there. I can stress my dog by making them work under high distractions, obstacle courses where they have to figure out how to do things. I can train them under stress and have it be beneficial, or I can say dogs need stress and create it by kicking his ass everytime he doesn't respond well and add stress that way. 

In the end I find one way to be very beneficial and the other to be almost completely useless other than to stroke and ego about how big and bad the dog is because he can take my beatings


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Why do humans and animals have these reactions? Obviously to facilitate learning that contributes to an individuals chances of survival and success.
> I am not saying that all stress and pressure is GOOD nor is it all BAD but to ignore its value to the teaching and development process ignores evolution and what is inherrent in all intelligent creatures.


I agree with this. I just mentioned in another thread that I didn't think that 'positive only' was a correct way for dogs to learn, since in nature an animal that never learns to avoid things won't survive. You said it much more eloquently, lol.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Life is about pressure. Hungry? Pressure to eat. Need to potty? Pressure to be released. Dont pay your taxes? Pressure of jail time or heavy fines. Go into a bar and hit on the big tattoed looking guys girlfriend in front of him? Pressure applied to your forehead with his fist and extra points for style if he headbutts you. 

As long as the message is clear and concise and delivered with proper timing and intensity i dont see a problem. Teach gently but firmly proof sternly but fairly but always always be clear with the dog. Some dogs take more pressure than others. Some need little more than a stern look. Finding the sweet spot is something you need to do with each individual dog. If you teach properly punishments should be a fairly rare thing.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

crackem said:


> I think the obvious answer is all dogs have to respond and learn to deal with stress. it's an important part of growth and development for all animals. Now does that mean I'd use that as a reason to be extra hard on my dog? I think that mentality is for the **** swingers out there. I can stress my dog by making them work under high distractions, obstacle courses where they have to figure out how to do things. I can train them under stress and have it be beneficial, or I can say dogs need stress and create it by kicking his ass everytime he doesn't respond well and add stress that way.
> 
> In the end I find one way to be very beneficial and the other to be almost completely useless other than to stroke and ego about how big and bad the dog is because he can take my beatings


I agree with this entirely.

I expose my dog to a _lot_ of stress while we're training. I need him to be functional in the ring, I need him to work through distractions, and because he is batcrap crazy, I need him to get over the radioactive spider ghosts in his head. I need him to function with reliability and some level of precision for a decently long period of time when he's worried and anxious and there aren't any obvious motivators in sight.

So we train through environmental stressors (of which there are absolutely no shortage in the city, sometimes much more intense than I want in any given moment -- just about an hour ago, when I was trying to do some Stay proofing, a stranger walked up to us and banged on a glass door 5 feet away from my dog while staring directly at him, because I guess he wanted the cute doggy to connect with him or somesuch idiocy). We train through limited reinforcement schedules and emotional strain and whatever else I think my dog is strong enough to handle in that particular moment, stacked with the difficulty of whatever it is I'm asking him to do.

What I _don't_ need is stress created by me. That is not helpful to my personal goals or the relationship I want to have with my dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think the dogs are smarter than that, as a whole. If the dog knows that it's being disobedient, then it'll accept a reasonable correction. I haven't used very many heavy corrections with my pup, but there have been 3 exceptions. In one instance the behavior was extinguished immediately. That was taking the cat games to another level, and he was going to lose an eye if I didn't give him an excellent warning first. The other 2 were over the same thing, only 6 months apart. Maybe he was testing to see if the rules had changed? Anyway, he's never repeated that very wrong move either. I don't think these corrections harmed our relationship at all. More like: he won't be repeating the behavior because he didn't like the outcome.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> If the dog knows that it's being disobedient, then it'll accept a reasonable correction.


My problem with this line of reasoning is that I have very often seen people guess wrong about whether the dog "knows that it's being disobedient" and I have also seen people define "reasonable" in ways that I personally would not.

If you are absolutely sure beyond the shadow of a doubt in your judgment, and you're also sure that Dunning-Kruger is not in play, then great.

I am not good enough yet to have that level of confidence very often, so personally I tend to shy away from making that particular judgment. At least when it comes to competition training (vs. life skills stuff), I'm still a noob and too likely to be wrong.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Ha ha, I liked that link - thanks! 

It's like when you teach 'leave it' and eventually you're not interrupting the dog once it's on the actual target. The dog has learned not to go after certain items, and you've learned that change in expression that indicates 'yay free treats!' and an "Eh" will suffice long before the dog is on top of it. After that stage (using that as an example) then yes, the dog knows exactly why it's being corrected when it's munching on goose crap. Now, as far as competition training goes, I have no idea since I've never done that - but I don't think it would be any different?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

mycobraracr said:


> Lets talk about some stress's. Are gun shots? Is obedience with multiple decoys on the field a stresser? Making the dog bite through a tunnel or into a dark room, slick floors? Is this what you're going after? Or are you talking more about correction type stressers? Like you will sit or I will make you sit.


Perhaps trying to narrow the scope was innapropriate, all o0f those deserve to be explored.

In relation to handler induced stress through corrections, I believe it can show you something in the dog.
I like a young dog that challenges me a bit. A dog that has been taught something but still blows you off once in a while just because, even though they know a correction will come. It makes me smile when a dog has the backbone/spirit to handle a strong correction and bounce right back.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I like a young dog that challenges me a bit. A dog that has been taught something but still blows you off once in a while just because, even though they know a correction will come. It makes me smile when a dog has the backbone/spirit to handle a strong correction and bounce right back.



I'm with you there. Kiersten and I were saying the other day how some of the things we love about Heidi are the very things that make her hard to compete with.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I believe that a dogs mind need to mature before significant stress is placed on it. I think that when they are pups you introduce very mild pressure to the dog but keep it very light and brief. My male is almost three and his mind has finally firmed up to the place that I want it. He is easier to train and mentally tougher than he was at one. At one, I put a lot of pressure on him and thought there was something wrong with him when he did not take the pressure well. Now at three the same about of pressure is nothing and he is advancing much faster. This is something that I had to learn. Now I have a 9 month old pup. Her mind is mashed potatoes. If it weren't for the experience I gained from my first dog, I would be very disappointed with her. However, I have realized that I used to have too high of expectations for a young puppy's brain to live up to. Now I am taking really slow with her and will gradually increase pressure/expectations has I see her mind firming up.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

exactly! So many people seem to rush the puppies when they clearly aren't ready for added stress or pressure. 
On the flipside, I waited a bit too long, IMO to introduce the retrieves to my male. He was maturing at about 3, I asked him to do what he clearly didn't want to. Had I introduced it early on, it may have had a different outcome than me putting him in the position of "you must" because I say so.
live and learn...


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Perhaps its too broad in scope. What I had in mind when it comes to environmental is along the lines of challenging the common notion that if a dog is afraid of something you should just manage and avoid the stressor or spend months or even years tip toeing around the edges of the scary thing be it stairs or gun fire.
> You commonly hear a variety of excuses like "he shuts down" as an excuse for why the dog is not being helped to overcome the stress.
> 
> In KNPV the dogs are taught to bite in a process that places pressure on them from the get go. Dogs are taught with pressure obedience, good biting behavior etc. The dogs learn to push through the pressure to achieve the bite and win the fight.
> ...


I think comparing KNPV training to a dog that is do afraid of stairs that it shuts down is not productive. You are talking about different temperaments at opposite ends of the spectrum. A confident dog that shows remarkable resilience and hardness can be flooded and recover, where a soft dog will go into prolonged avoidance that can increase.

Digging deeper into the physiology of stress shows that some stress during development is important, as it increases the ability of the body to handle stress later in life. Cortisol levels, respiration, pulse and adrenaline levels all are lower when reacting to stress in animals that a exposed to manageable stress occasionally through development. Their recovery time is also greatly reduced.

Moderation is of great importance however, as if the dog is unable to completely recover from a stress period, negative physical and psychological effects can manifest. You see this in working dogs that become compulsive in their kennel, often spinning, licking or barking compulsively. These same dogs lose these behaviors when they are removed from the kennel and stay with the handler in an isolated environment.

Evidence of this can be seen in learning behaviors as well. Often dogs will learn faster if training is reduced to 2 or 3 days a week, or if a particular behavior is trained for a day and then you take 2 days off. It's like the behavior sinks in. This may be attributed to lower accumulated stress in the dog, negating avoidance behaviors and encouraging performance and learning.

All this goes back to the individual dog, what it's resiliency is, what it's thresholds are, what stimulates the dog and what calms it. 

David Winners


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

quote Blitzkrieg "In KNPV the dogs are taught to bite in a process that places pressure on them from the get go. Dogs are taught with pressure obedience, good biting behavior etc. The dogs learn to push through the pressure to achieve the bite and win the fight."

-------- once and only after there is a deep relationship developed between the dog and handler --- the stress comes from the extraneous not from the handler


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

carmspack said:


> quote Blitzkrieg "In KNPV the dogs are taught to bite in a process that places pressure on them from the get go. Dogs are taught with pressure obedience, good biting behavior etc. The dogs learn to push through the pressure to achieve the bite and win the fight."
> 
> -------- once and only after there is a deep relationship developed between the dog and handler --- the stress comes from the extraneous not from the handler


Plenty of handler induced stress on young pups in those programs..


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the handler can put pressure on the dog but this does not happen till the dog has a firm deep relationship with the dog. those dogs would do anything for their master , not out of fear or submission


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I agree Carmen. Your relationship with your dog is a dynamic that has to be developed. Just because a puppy will wag his tail and follow you around does not mean that the two of you have a deep relationship built on trust and respect. My male is almost three years old. He will now do things for me that he really has no interest in, just because he trusts me and respects me. Jean spoke about the retrieve. My dog is not a natural retriever. He is very possessive. I could not play fetch with him as a pup because he saw no reason to bring something back that I made him run out to get. Well, now he will retrieve for me as an obedience exercise because I ask him too. No compulsion. Just compliance built on his desire to make me happy. The hurdle is the same thing. I have no way to force him to jump the hurdle. He has no reason to jump something that would be easier to go around. However if I say "up" he will go right over it because it is what I want him to do. These are things that I could not train at a young age. I had to wait until he was old enough to understand what I wanted and our relationship was strong enough that he trusted me. His mind can now handle the mental pressure.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

carmspack said:


> the handler can put pressure on the dog but this does not happen till the dog has a firm deep relationship with the dog. those dogs would do anything for their master , not out of fear or submission


Im not disagreeing with you per say but many would say that the methods those handlers use cause fear and submission which is how they "force" the dogs to perform. I dont agree with it but thats what they would say.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Im not disagreeing with you per say but many would say that the methods those handlers use cause fear and submission which is how they "force" the dogs to perform. I dont agree with it but thats what they would say.


I would say that they use drive to get the dogs to perform and remove all options but the correct one using compulsion. IME, some of these dogs have conflict with the handler when they move to a new handler. I wouldn't call it fear / submission at all, and when they are adults, you aren't going to force them to do much. They won't put up with it.

I think that many people don't understand that training using aversives is communication when used properly. They set the dog up to perform correctly and remove all other options. The dogs trained in this way can take the pressure. If they weren't successful, they wouldn't train this way. KNPV produces some great dogs. I just don't like the conflict you have to overcome to work with them as a handler.

David Winners


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

pressure and stress in training --
be careful with a young dog that you don't break the dog out of ambition to get to a place quickly.

as a breeder the pups I have are pre-stressed. In the whelping pen they are moved into different temperature zones . They get little frustrations . Life is not made easy -- they may have to weave through a configuration of boxes to get to the food . They experience resistance , push back , following or being called to come in total dark , noise stimulation. My being abrupt or louder in vocalization so that sound of conflict is home-turf . Being visited and played with and then walked away from while still in full play mode gives them some social tension or stress . They get used to me coming and me going .
They have gentle increments of pressure and frustration which helps build the ability to handle greater stress down the line . 

Look at it from the plant growers experience. Young plants are tender . If you were to grow them exclusively under ideal hot house conditions and then put them outside you would have some high ratio kill off . Plants would wither in the heat , the cool, they burn with the increased light and UV rays . The slightest wind would flatten them . So you take the potted plant and you put it out in shade , in a protected area for a short while , then bring in. Over a period of time you can increase the sun exposure and the duration of time being left out. The plant will become more sturdy and not so wind vulnerable.

this is called hardening off Hardening Off Plants - Acclimating and Preparing Seedlings for Transplant by Hardening Them Off

same with young animals and animals in training . The more considerate you are in giving that pressure and stress the better the result . The animal becoming harder and more self confident better able to blow through pressure and strength.
Everything has a stress and strain threshold -- whether an engineered material or a living material , (trees in the ice storm this winter) or an emotional limitation.


.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

David Winners said:


> I would say that they use drive to get the dogs to perform and remove all options but the correct one using compulsion. IME, some of these dogs have conflict with the handler when they move to a new handler. I wouldn't call it fear / submission at all, and when they are adults, you aren't going to force them to do much. They won't put up with it.
> 
> I think that many people don't understand that training using aversives is communication when used properly. They set the dog up to perform correctly and remove all other options. The dogs trained in this way can take the pressure. If they weren't successful, they wouldn't train this way. KNPV produces some great dogs. I just don't like the conflict you have to overcome to work with them as a handler.
> 
> David Winners


Ill agree with you there. I think that vid Alice posted in the other place is interesting and a good example of what your talking about. Dog is grabbed by the collar and carried/placed by the handler on the target part of the suit. Choke correction for getting dirty. All at 8 months but the dog never comes out of drive. Also clearly a bit of conflict..


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

carmspack said:


> pressure and stress in training --
> be careful with a young dog that you don't break the dog out of ambition to get to a place quickly.
> 
> as a breeder the pups I have are pre-stressed. In the whelping pen they are moved into different temperature zones . They get little frustrations . Life is not made easy -- they may have to weave through a configuration of boxes to get to the food . They experience resistance , push back , following or being called to come in total dark , noise stimulation. My being abrupt or louder in vocalization so that sound of conflict is home-turf . Being visited and played with and then walked away from while still in full play mode gives them some social tension or stress . They get used to me coming and me going .
> ...


Excellent analogy i did not know that about plants, makes sense. Mike mentioned that he plays gun shot and other sounds for his pups in the whelping box if I recall correctly. He claims to never have had an issue with sound sensitivity.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

we have neighbours on ski doos and they take target practice in the back acres -- plus fireworks display --- I KNOW I have no issues there .
the problem with recordings is that you don't have the same resonance and air splitting - changes in air pressure -- like the drums that you feel in your chest , or the ear popping of a thunder storm


Yes , plants, more than a few years in landscape and green houses including Edwards and Allen Gardens.
Put those seedlings out too early without exposure - you may as well throw away the tray and start again.
you see people anxious to get tomatoes out asap and get growth and a crop , be no further ahead , and possibly behind those that are patient and wait that extra two weeks .

Patience .


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Ill agree with you there. I think that vid Alice posted in the other place is interesting and a good example of what your talking about. Dog is grabbed by the collar and carried/placed by the handler on the target part of the suit. Choke correction for getting dirty. All at 8 months but the dog never comes out of drive. Also clearly a bit of conflict..


Where I see this conflict manifest itself is primarily in detection work. Some dogs require a lot of positive training to teach them it is OK to be obedient to odor and blow off the handler. They are anticipating a correction whenever they fail to comply with the handler. This is a problem as you never want the dog to ignore odor to comply with the handler outside of an emergency recall or down. 

Other dogs simply check out with the handler once they are worked off leash and know that they can not receive a correction at distance. Getting these dogs to work with the handler take a lot of control over training situations to only allow the dog to get rewarded when taking guidance from the handler.

You have to teach them that they have a say in the work, but it is also rewarding to work with the handler. It requires a balance in training that swings greatly one way or another with different dogs out of the same system, depending on the dog.

IME, dogs that have less conflict with the handler, and also have a learning system instilled that allows for positive and negative communication, creates a learning situation where the dog is not afraid to try new things. Problem solving is a big part of detection and a dog that is in conflict with trying new things is much harder to expose to new situations successfully.

I understand that most of these situations will not present themselves in most working and sport situations. Working in SAR, herding or long range detection poses a different set of criteria to be successful than most people need out of the dog.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

David Winners said:


> Where I see this conflict manifest itself is primarily in detection work. Some dogs require a lot of positive training to teach them it is OK to be obedient to odor and blow off the handler. They are anticipating a correction whenever they fail to comply with the handler. This is a problem as you never want the dog to ignore odor to comply with the handler outside of an emergency recall or down.
> 
> Other dogs simply check out with the handler once they are worked off leash and know that they can not receive a correction at distance. Getting these dogs to work with the handler take a lot of control over training situations to only allow the dog to get rewarded when taking guidance from the handler.
> 
> ...


Yes!


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

glowingtoadfly said:


> Yes!


So you support a ballanced training approach? That includes corrections. 

David I have no experience with detection I can see how conflict could cause issues with a dog that needs to take more initiative in the work. Thanks for the insight.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I am currently considering my options and trying to keep an open mind


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

glowingtoadfly said:


> I am currently considering my options and trying to keep an open mind


Good stuff.


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