# Nutriscan test, Vet doesn't trust results, Help?



## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

My 4.5 month old male puppy has been itchy & had runny poops since the day he came home from the breeder. We initially did a mite treatment (still itchy after 4 weeks of treatment), then skin biopsy to check for any skin diseases (negative for everything on panel). Benadryl, zyrtec didn't work to control itching (itched several raw spots in arm pits and belly), prescription shampoo helped a bit to sooth his skin, but would itch again the next day. Prednisone stopped itching, but was very hard on him and us with the need to pee all the time (made house training nearly impossible). Switched to cyclosporine which helped, but he still itches some. We make him wear a shirt to heal the raw spots, but this is like the hottest summer ever in Utah and the poor guy is just hot in the shirt (plus he is growing so fast I have to keep buying bigger shirts all the time).

He was on Kirkland Adult Salmon & Sweet Potato food from breeder. We switched him to Blue Buffalo large breed puppy chicken and rice. Since he itched through both foods, had big eye goobers, and had runny stools. I compared all the ingredients and consulted with Vet and decided to eliminate anything both foods had in common (chicken, salmon, sweet potato, potato, flaxseed, peas) and switched him to Natures Variety Raw Instinct Venison & Lamb. I also ordered a nutriscan test after reading about in on this forum. Poops became firmer since switch to nature's variety, still itching and some eye goobers.

We received the nutriscan tests over the weekend. He had high reactivity to Salmon, chicken, pork, eggs, quinoa and rice. Medium reactivity to Barley, millet, oatmeal, peanuts, potato, rabbit. Weak reactivity to corn, milk, turkey, venison, white fish, sweet potato. The only negative reactivity items on the panel were beef & lamb. 

I sent the results to our Vet, but since it was a holiday weekend he didn't respond until today. I made the executive decision based on the nutriscan results to get rid of everything that the puppy showed any reactivity to and go with only lamb and beef food and treats (some of the food and treats have items not tested for in the nutriscan panel like alfalfa, tomatoes, berries, etc). I found a diet limited ingredient Nature Variety Lamb with alfalfa. I also found Merrick canned beef and lamb food that I thought I could supplement the dry food with because a growing puppy seems to need more than the diet dog food. 

Our Vet called me today and said he had consulted with a dermatologist and they both think the nutriscan test is bogus. He wants us to go back on a venison based diet with potato. Stay on that for 6 weeks with cyclosporine and then if he is still itchy go in for skin tests.

I'm at a loss of what to do. I really like our Vet. We used him with our previous dog that passed away last year (he saw us through a ruptured disc back surgery and bone cancer on the previous dog), but I wouldn't say he is cutting edge or out of the box. I kind of want to go with a diet based on the nutriscan results for six weeks and see if it helps, but going against the advice of people with actual veterinary degrees doesn't seem good either. I'm leaning toward a second opinion, however Utah doesn't have many specialists so I'm not sure I can find another dermatologist Vet besides the person our regular vet is already consulting with.

Any help, ideas or feedback. I just want our puppy to feel better and get to be a puppy.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I have had a similar reaction when I showed Nikki's dermatologist the Nutriscan results. I have known this vet for 10 years and he has taken care of my Heidi also who had severe allergies, I trust him 100%.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Sorry, but my blood BOILS when I hear vets say things like this!

Oliver's Mom, this is not aimed at you,  I just need to vent FOR YOU & ME seeing and hearing this year after year and these vets wont get their head out of the sand!

Here is an article of what vets WISHED they had known before administering all of the vaccines they gave for years! Vets On Vaccines | Dogs Naturally Magazine 

Dr. Dodds has spent her LIFE researching vaccinations and inventing a test like this to aide pet parents(Home) Are THEY in the lab researching this stuff??????? 

And another thing! These are the same vets that will say that there isn't ANY reaction to vaccinations! Seriously????  This is what started your poor dog on this journey! Your dog = eye goobers, itching, loose stool, sores! AND giving countless drugs that "cover up" not heal the problem!

Has your vet given your dog any shots while he was having the above signs? The box clearly states that they ARE NOT to be given to dogs who are not well!!!! I would call open sores, itching and goobers NOT WELL!

Read these 2 statements: Dr. Jean Dodds:"The veterinary profession and vaccine industry have traditionally emphasized the importance of giving a series of vaccinations to young animals to prevent infectious diseases, to the extent that this practice is considered routine and is generally safe for the majority of animals. *Few clinicians* are prepared, therefore, for encountering an adverse event and *may overlook or even DENY the possibility.*Beyond the immediate hypersensitivity reactions, other acute events tend to occur 24 to 72 hours afterward, *or 7 to 45 days later in a delayed type immunological response"

*Dr. Michael Dym: "What I have seen in my many years of private practice is that distemper and other vaccines administered to prevent acute illness can contribute to symptoms seen in chronic disease and pathologies. *Some symptoms often seen in chronic canine illness include chronic runny eyes and conjunctivitis (tear stains in dogs, dry eye, chronic eye allergies); chronic vomiting, diarrhea, appetite issues; emaciation; pancreatitis, inflammatory bowel disease, GI lymphoma; chronic spasms and seizures (epilepsy, brain tumors); skin eruptions and swelling of feet and red feet pads; itching from lifelong skin allergies; and eruptions around the mouth (seen in lip fold dermatitis). That is, adverse reactions from vaccination may mimic symptoms of the very disease the vaccine was meant to prevent.* *Reactions may occur immediately or months or even years later*." 

I've personally talked with Dr. Dodds and have had friends marvel at the difference in their dogs after finding out thru the NutriScan what their triggers were. IMO, stick with what you are doing now after the NutriScan. You have a keen sense of what is right.....go with it! Please pm me so that we can discuss.
Don't know if any of these vets (registered with the AHVMA) are close or not:
Moms
*
Backus, Kathy*
DVM
Dr. Kathy Backus DVM, Universal Healing Services
435-899-0577
450 East Burton Lane
Kaysville
UT
84037
United States
AVIAN, EQUINE, FARM, HOUSE CALLS, SMALL ANIMAL
Acupuncture, Acupuncture (IVAS), Applied Kinesiology, Chinese Herbs (IVAS), Chiropractic, Chiropractic (AVCA), Conventional Medicine, NAET, Ozone Therapy
*
Larsen, Nancy*
DVM
DANCING CATS FELINE HEALTH CENTER
801-467-0799
1760 SOUTH 1100 EAST, SUITE 8L
Salt Lake City
UT
84105
United States
www.dancingcatsvet.com
SMALL ANIMAL
Acupuncture, Acupuncture (CSU), Bach Flowers, Clinical Nutrition, Homeopathy, Reiki
*
Scheurich, Verona*
DVM
ANIMAL CARE CENTER
801-294-5960
698 WEST 500 SOUTH
West Bountiful
UT
84087
United States
www.utahanimalcare.com
SMALL ANIMAL
Acupuncture, Acupuncture (CSU), Conventional Medicine
*
Taylor, Lara*
DVM
CLEARFIELD VETERINARY CLINIC P.C.
801-776-4372
780 S. State Street
Clearfield
UT
84015
United States
www.clearfieldveterinaryclinic.com#http://www.clearfieldveterinaryclinic.com#
AVIAN, EXOTIC, SMALL ANIMAL
Bach Flowers, Chinese Herbs, Chinese Herbs (Chi Institute), Conventional Medicine, Homeopathy, Western Herbs


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

Heidigsd said:


> I have had a similar reaction when I showed Nikki's dermatologist the Nutriscan results. I have known this vet for 10 years and he has taken care of my Heidi also who had severe allergies, I trust him 100%.


Did you go ahead with the nutriscan test and then proceed with following the diet recommendations based on nutriscan test despite the Vet's concerns? I guess I'm wondering if anyone has done the test, stuck with a diet based on the results, and seen their dog get better? I'm torn between the traditional route the Vet wants us to go and a route based on nutriscan testing results.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

Oliver's mom:

if your vet is someone that you trust and has worked with you for years, he or she should be willing to work with you to see what happens when you follow the Nutriscan results. If you don't see results, than you can try the cyclosporine and other therapiea that your vet is recommending. 

Dr. Jean Dodds is a pioneer in canine therapies and I would personally feel safe using something that she developed - until proven otherwise. 

I, myself, was on the verge of purchasing the Nutriscan system for my senior GSD (rescued at age 10) with allergies. My vet and I were able to determine that his were environmental allergies as he had zero gastrointestinal symptoms. He was simply itchy and scratching only his tummy. He is on very low dose Prednisone just three times weekly and Hydroxyzine (antihistamine) three times daily until the weather changes and we get some relief. All of his symptoms stopped with this regimen.

Please go with your gut and give the Nutriscan results a chance to be correct. You will always doubt yourself later if you don't give it a try.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I would go with Nutriscan results. I think you picked good food and hopefully your pup will do well. I love my specialist vet a lot, too, but every time they ask what my dog is eating I say Hill's diet because that's what they insisted. And then the vet tells me how healthy my dog is because of that. My dog is not on any Hill's diet. I will not be wasting my time on arguments that can alienate a vet I like.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Oliver's Mom: Here are some foods that I am keeping in mind just in case Nikki needs a new protein in the future (fingers crossed that won't happen). I don't know much about "Addiction Foods" but maybe someone else has some input.

Rayne Clinical Nutrition is a good company but they do use sweet potatoes in some of their diets.

Dog Formulas

http://www.raynenutrition.com/Default.asp


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Go with the results and try it. What could it possibly hurt? Giving prescription meds on the other had can cause problems. Regular drs are the same way with these kinds of tests for humans. Look up the gfcf diet for autism. Lots of drs. Think this is bogus yet it has helped CURE autism. I am using it for my daughter as we speak. Screw the drs. Opinion, go with your gut. Like I said, trying a diet change can't hurt. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Heidigsd said:


> Oliver's Mom: Here are some foods that I am keeping in mind just in case Nikki needs a new protein in the future (fingers crossed that won't happen). I don't know much about "Addiction Foods" but maybe someone else has some input.
> 
> Rayne Clinical Nutrition is a good company but they do use sweet potatoes in some of their diets.
> 
> ...


Addiction has high carbs and yeast (another gut buster) in most, if not all of the dry foods.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Oliver's mom I say go with you gut. It can't hurt try an elimination diet. 

Our girl has rash issues that I believe are food allergies as well. (my vet won't commit to an allergy diagnosis because she is a puppy and keeps telling us it's hormones due to growing ). I was thinking about doing the Nutriscan test but didn't know if it was legit. Thanks for sharing your results.

I decided to try an elimination diet and started with a single protein she had never had...lamb. It seems to working. We are currently using Nature's Variety LID lamb. My girl is doing much better since she has been on it. My concern is after I started on it I discovered that is has a calcium content not less than 2 % which I'm told is to high for a GSD puppy. Unfortunately, it may be our only choice as most LID kibbles have this issue we are finding out. Maybe someone on here knows of affordable kibble with limited ingredients and lower calcium?
I don't know if you use wet (canned food) or not. Wellness has a wet food meant to be a topper or mix in that is 95% pure meat that comes in lamb and beef. 
Treats are hard to find with limited ingredients. They are $$$ but Orijen has freeze dried single protein all meat treats. The lamb ones are 100 % pure lamb lung. Our fur baby loves them.

Good luck and health to your boy!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Springbrz said:


> Treats are hard to find with limited ingredients.


Here is my recipe for home made treats that work really well for elimination diets!

*Homemade Meat Treats*

*Items needed:*
*Non Stick Fry Pan*
*Pam*
*Scissors*
*Choose one of the following meats: Round Steak, Pork Chops, Lamb Slices or Calves Liver*

1. Trim off all fat on the edges and/or in-between and if it has a bone in it, remove that too. 
Take a pair of scissors (outstanding tool for cutting meat) and cut the chosen meat into manageable pieces. If using Liver, blot dry with paper towel for easier handling after it is unfrozen. You can cook this in whole pieces. 
2. Choose a fry pan (non stick is the easiest) that will hold the amount of meat you bought, and give the pan a small drop of oil or a quick spray of Pam.
3. Heat the pan until hot and drop the pieces of meat in to the pan to sizzle. Keep your heat rather high but don’t leave the pan unattended.
4. Sprinkle on a little garlic powder or garlic salt if desired.
5. Let the meat sizzle for about a minute or two then flip over. Braise the other side (pour off the juice during cooking if there is too much). Remove from pan and place on to paper towel, blot and let cool. Note: Only braise the liver to a medium done range on both sides (don’t thoroughly cook it) otherwise it will get crumbly. 
6. Take your scissors and cut all of the meat in to strips about ¼” wide. Now take those strips and cut small pieces about the size of a ½ of a dime, (or whatever size you prefer).
7. Place small amounts into seal-able snack baggies, then place those baggies into a seal-able freezer baggie and place in freezer. When you need them, take out one or two baggies, place them in the frig to thaw. Of course the dogs love them frozen too, if you forget!
If you’d like a more “dehydrated” type treat: Heat your oven to 200*. Place your dime size, cut pieces on a non stick cookie sheet and place in oven until dried out, about 1 hour. 
The treats take a little time but saves a lot of $$ and the dogs go crazy for them!
“BONE’ APPETITE” MY FURRY FRIENDS!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Why not have your vet contact Dr. Dodds?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Why not have your vet contact Dr. Dodds?


Thank you Jean!
This is an excellent idea!
That way Dr. Dodds can send her vet the data sheets that explain what/how she is testing which differs from "allergy testing".


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

Sounds like we are using the same nature's variety food. It is tough to find treats. Oliver is in a puppy obedience class and I'm struggling to find something to use. I ended up with Wellness beef jerky treats as they are only beef and chicory (beef was the other ok item on his panel). I also found lamb jerk with no other ingredients, but it is really hard to cut up into training treat size and it gets all crumbly in the treat bag. I might have to just make my own, the trouble is finding the time. 

I hadn't heard about the calcium issue, I suppose I should ask a Vet or nutritionist about that. 



Springbrz said:


> Oliver's mom I say go with you gut. It can't hurt try an elimination diet.
> 
> Our girl has rash issues that I believe are food allergies as well. (my vet won't commit to an allergy diagnosis because she is a puppy and keeps telling us it's hormones due to growing ). I was thinking about doing the Nutriscan test but didn't know if it was legit. Thanks for sharing your results.
> 
> ...


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

I send my Vet the link to her website and explain who she was when I ask him if he had heard of the test. There is a special link for Vets, but I don't know that he read it or will go that far. I'm pretty resolved to get a 2nd opinion, stick with my nutriscan food trial, and see if things improve in 6 weeks.



Momto2GSDs said:


> Thank you Jean!
> This is an excellent idea!
> That way Dr. Dodds can send her vet the data sheets that explain what/how she is testing which differs from "allergy testing".


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Just keep in mind that an elimination diet is impossible with kibble. There are too many ingredients to be able to isolate the one (or ones) that cause the problem.

I would highly suggest an ingredient INCLUSION diet. Start with a single ingredient, give it at least 3-4 weeks and then try adding another ingredient (or switching ingredients if the one you were using didn't make a difference).

This type of diet cannot be done using commercial dog food - not canned or dry. There is no single ingredient food out there.

You can only accomplish an inclusion diet by either feeding raw or home cooked.


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

*Feeling good about 2nd opinion*

We saw a different Vet today.We went through Oliver's entire history. He went through the calendar I made which showed week by week which drugs, tests, and foods he was on. He took the nutriscan test seriously and said he thinks it is a valuable piece of the puzzle and a tool we will use. He looked Oliver over with fresh eyes and noticed he has little red bumps through out his coat and seems to have a rash on his belly. He took hair samples to do a fungal test and he gave us a new antibiotic (Simplecef) to see if the bumps and rash respond to that. He also gave us Hydroxyzine to see if that helps stop the itching. A new shampoo too that will address the fungus element if that is present and part of the problem. 

He wants Oliver to stay on the food and diet I created based on the nutriscan results. I know this isn't a true food trial, but this Vet agrees because he is a puppy that this is probably the best for now while he is chewing, growing and going to obedience class. Oliver's diet will be restricted to lamb and beef with the limited ingredient dog foods. 

Best of all, he is going to tag-team this with our regular Vet because I do like him and feel he has a lot of history with us. All in all, I feel better than when I originally posted


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Oliver'smom said:


> We saw a different Vet today.We went through Oliver's entire history. He went through the calendar I made which showed week by week which drugs, tests, and foods he was on. He took the nutriscan test seriously and said he thinks it is a valuable piece of the puzzle and a tool we will use. He looked Oliver over with fresh eyes and noticed he has little red bumps through out his coat and seems to have a rash on his belly. He took hair samples to do a fungal test and he gave us a new antibiotic (Simplecef) to see if the bumps and rash respond to that. He also gave us Hydroxyzine to see if that helps stop the itching. A new shampoo too that will address the fungus element if that is present and part of the problem.
> 
> He wants Oliver to stay on the food and diet I created based on the nutriscan results. I know this isn't a true food trial, but this Vet agrees because he is a puppy that this is probably the best for now while he is chewing, growing and going to obedience class. Oliver's diet will be restricted to lamb and beef with the limited ingredient dog foods.
> 
> Best of all, he is going to tag-team this with our regular Vet because I do like him and feel he has a lot of history with us. All in all, I feel better than when I originally posted


I am so happy for you OM! 
I just hope for your sake it doesn't become a "power struggle" between the two vets like I had! Each of them thought that THEY knew best! It was a nightmare!


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