# Is my 10 mo old too skinny?



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

He’s 57.8lbs as of 2 days ago, he was 56.3 on his visit 3/15 and 50.3 back in 11/2021

Vet says he should be at least 65lbs

He just had a bout with soft-serve/ loose stools for about 2 weeks, took him in and had full blood work/urinalysis/fecal/X-rays done and everything came back “pretty much textbook” per the vet but shes concerned about a deeper issue such as liver shunt/exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, Which I think seems excessive.

Stools are back to normal with a probiotic addition and opening a new bag of same food. His energy levels are normal, we play fetch daily for ~30min where hes running about 150-200ft to the ball and back, and hes in and out of the house playing with my kids chasing flies outside, and trashing my yard as you can see lol

He was eating 4c/ day for 1700kcal, vet said he needed 1850-2100 so I upped to 5.5-6c last week, this week hes closer to 5 and just doesnt really seem that hungry as if I am overfeeding him. That last 1/2c he seems like hes forcing himself to eat. (All his food is hand fed as rewards for training)

Sire is ~80lbs Dam is ~65lbs


----------



## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

It’s hard to tell in the different lighting. Could you get a photo in the sun from the side (so he is totally lit up?) and from above him looking down?
I prefer to keep my dogs leaner. So based on these photos (particularly the one in partial sun) he looks like a fit young dog. However it is hard to tell in photos. If you run your hands down his sides you should be able to feel his ribs without too much trouble. I believe I’ve seen it said that if you make a fist, and run your fingers over your knuckles- that is too thin. Run your fingers over the fatty part of your fingers- that is good.
Feel where his hips are as well, you don’t want them jutting out.
If your vet is worried about pancreatic insufficiency though, that is something you can look into just to make sure he has no underlying medical issues.

editing to add: you shouldn’t have to force him to eat. Either he is hungry or not.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Wunderwhy6 said:


> It’s hard to tell in the different lighting. Could you get a photo in the sun from the side (so he is totally lit up?) and from above him looking down?
> I prefer to keep my dogs leaner. So based on these photos (particularly the one in partial sun) he looks like a fit young dog. However it is hard to tell in photos. If you run your hands down his sides you should be able to feel his ribs without too much trouble. I believe I’ve seen it said that if you make a fist, and run your fingers over your knuckles- that is too thin. Run your fingers over the fatty part of your fingers- that is good.
> Feel where his hips are as well, you don’t want them jutting out.
> If your vet is worried about pancreatic insufficiency though, that is something you can look into just to make sure he has no underlying medical issues.
> ...


EDIT: Forgot to mention we had his Bordetella booster done at a pet store vax clinic since vet is booked months out, their scale had him at 59lbs on 3/5/22 but vet also says who knows how often that scale is calibrated especially since its mobile, so it gave the impression he all of a sudden lost 4lbs, thats where the concern for a deeper issue stems from

Well I suggested I up his food and reeval in 2 weeks since it sounds like Ive been underfeeding him, so he put on about 2lbs in a week of increased food, Ribs do not feel like fist knuckles more like fingers, def some body fat between his skin, just seems like hes lean to me.

Suns down in the yard I will try to get one tomorrow but here are some overheads


----------



## Wunderwhy6 (Nov 29, 2020)

Scales definitely vary. My home scale is 3 lbs off from our local pet food express scale.
He looks good to me just based on those photos.
I would not recommend forcing him to eat (this is assuming he has no medical problems) and it isn’t good to have too much weight. My vet hesitates every time I ask about Kai’s weight. She is lean and athletic. He generally goes with “lighter than they normally see but in good shape”. Your vet may not be used to seeing a fit dog.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks for the insight


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

How old is he? If he’s still a puppy he is going to fill in and continue to put on weight.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

ArkAngel said:


> EDIT: Forgot to mention we had his Bordetella booster done at a pet store vax clinic since vet is booked months out, their scale had him at 59lbs on 3/5/22 but vet also says who knows how often that scale is calibrated especially since its mobile, so it gave the impression he all of a sudden lost 4lbs, thats where the concern for a deeper issue stems from
> 
> Well I suggested I up his food and reeval in 2 weeks since it sounds like Ive been underfeeding him, so he put on about 2lbs in a week of increased food, Ribs do not feel like fist knuckles more like fingers, def some body fat between his skin, just seems like hes lean to me.
> 
> ...


he looks perfectly fine and age appropriate to me.
i weigh my dog regularly at my local pet store - i prefer their scale so that if it seems off, i can just grab a bag of dog food to check for accuracy.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> How old is he? If he’s still a puppy he is going to fill in and continue to put on weight.


10 months



Fodder said:


> he looks perfectly fine and age appropriate to me.
> i weigh my dog regularly at my local pet store - i prefer their scale so that if it seems off, i can just grab a bag of dog food to check for accuracy.


Good thinking! Hes only ever used the scale at the vet, this particular one at the pet store is only there a couple times a month for a few hours while they put on the clinic


----------



## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

His ideal weight is genetically determined and cannot be changed. Putting on weight too fast is bad thing for for their joints. 

Feeding to much food will result in loose stools. 

Seeing a rib is not a problem, see a whole bunch of ribs is probably under weight, seeing hip bones on the back is under weight. If you cannot feel ribs or need to press hard when you run your hand over them then that is over weight. 

Ribs should feel like relaxed knuckles on your hand, if they feel like the knuckles on tight fist then the dog is under weight. 

A little lean is better than a little heavy.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

ArkAngel said:


> 10 months
> 
> 
> 
> Good thinking! Hes only ever used the scale at the vet, this particular one at the pet store is only there a couple times a month for a few hours while they put on the clinic


Oh sorry, of course he is, it’s in the title. Yes, a 10 month old will continue to fill out.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

"He was eating 4c/ day for 1700kcal, vet said he needed 1850-2100 so I upped to 5.5-6c last week, this week hes closer to 5 and just doesnt really seem that hungry as if I am overfeeding him. That last 1/2c he seems like hes forcing himself to eat. (*All his food is hand fed as rewards for training*)"

If you're feeding 5.5-6c of kibble all for training, no wonder he's slow on the last 1/2c or more. jmo, use a third for training and let him have a couple of decent undisturbed meals @ 2c each.

You're either over treating for training or training 10 hours a day.


----------



## Invisidog (11 mo ago)

Well, my girl is 2 next month, and she is really starting to fill out more. I thought she was super skinny, but she wouldn't always eat all her food, so I wouldn't worry about it. My girl weighed about that much around that age (probably a little older) so I wouldn't worry. He'll fill out in time


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

WNGD said:


> You're either over treating for training or training 10 hours a day.


Uhh No, we train for 30min or so 2x per day for his meals and he gets handfuls of kibble for the correct behavior. Thats my trainers program and he is a world champ in Schutzhund.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

To my eye he looks pretty good, albeit on the leaner side. At 10 months, and thru the 2nd year he’ll be building bone mass and he could just be doing more of that right now. You don’t mention his height at the withers, which I look at as a marker. If he’s around 24” I would expect a bit lighter. My female was 25” at that age, and about 70 lbs at 7 months if memory serves. But, I let her keep a little extra weight because she did burn it off quickly. I agree that you might want to change his feed regimen because you may be just be setting him up for constant evacuation, and he might not be getting the best digestion because of the sheer volume of food. For me I would find a higher density food, feed less volume and as WNGD mentioned let him have some undisturbed feeding times. But again, he’s a very nice and healthy looking dog.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Rionel said:


> To my eye he looks pretty good, albeit on the leaner side. At 10 months, and thru the 2nd year he’ll be building bone mass and he could just be doing more of that right now. You don’t mention his height at the withers, which I look at as a marker. If he’s around 24” I would expect a bit lighter. My female was 25” at that age, and about 70 lbs at 7 months if memory serves. But, I let her keep a little extra weight because she did burn it off quickly. I agree that you might want to change his feed regimen because you may be just be setting him up for constant evacuation, and he might not be getting the best digestion because of the sheer volume of food. For me I would find a higher density food, feed less volume and as WNGD mentioned let him have some undisturbed feeding times. But again, he’s a very nice and healthy looking dog.


I havent measured him.

Can you elaborate on how I am setting him up for constant evacuation?

His Open Farm kibble is 425kcal per cup from what I have found that is one of the higher per cup besides Orijen at ~480


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

WNGD said:


> "He was eating 4c/ day for 1700kcal, vet said he needed 1850-2100 so I upped to 5.5-6c last week, this week hes closer to 5 and just doesnt really seem that hungry as if I am overfeeding him. That last 1/2c he seems like hes forcing himself to eat. (*All his food is hand fed as rewards for training*)"
> 
> If you're feeding 5.5-6c of kibble all for training, no wonder he's slow on the last 1/2c or more. jmo, use a third for training and let him have a couple of decent undisturbed meals @ 2c each.
> 
> You're either over treating for training or training 10 hours a day.


And it's worth noting that if "training" involves doing the same things in similar patterns over and over and over, of course your dog would get bored! It's really important to mix your training up, such that the one thing the dog learns to key in on is your next instruction! To make that happen, you have to be totally unpredictable! Both in your treat/reward schedule (and merely calling it a schedule goes against this basic premise...), and your sequence of commands. 

Mix it up always! Two times this, then four times that, then once this other thing...then switch!

Imagine what it's like for the dog. Sit, good. Down, good. Heel, good. Now sit...boring!

One thing that's huge while training that doesn't get enough air time is chaining commands! At first, every successful sit gets a treat. Once the dog knows sit, add in a stand, or a heel, or any other command before treating/rewarding. It's not something you jump to too quickly, but that is how you move on and eventually fade treats entirely, which again I wouldn't recommend doing too quickly! Just incrementally up the criteria required to get the treat/reward - and adjust the reward as well, integrating praise and toys in the mix!

Over time get 10 or more behaviors before rewarding. It works, and it keeps the dog guessing, as long as you are mixing up the reward schedule. Sometimes with one behavior, sometimes with three, and sometimes with fifteen! 

Remember always that good training is structured play! It's got to be fun and rewarding to the dog/puppy. So make it fun, but keep them guessing and don't be too predictable...


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

ArkAngel said:


> I havent measured him.
> 
> Can you elaborate on how I am setting him up for constant evacuation?
> 
> His Open Farm kibble is 425kcal per cup from what I have found that is one of the higher per cup besides Orijen at ~480


It could be a case of loading up too much food volume to frequently, which causes them to evacuate because of the mechanics of it. But they can also regurgitate at will if they get too full or worked too soon so if you're not seeing messy stools or vomit he just may be burning it off. I assume you have him on dewormer? Don't want it all to go to worms, of course. You also might try wetting kibble vs dry. (not sure if you differentiated above)

I wouldn't go on calories per cup as the only metric for food. He might do better on a different food (beef vs chicken) , regardless of the quality of your current feed. Sometimes they flourish on one over another. In the end, my dogs look their best and seem the healthiest on what I described above, but could possibly do better on raw, if that fit my lifestyle.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Rionel said:


> It could be a case of loading up too much food volume to frequently, which causes them to evacuate because of the mechanics of it. But they can also regurgitate at will if they get too full or worked too soon so if you're not seeing messy stools or vomit he just may be burning it off. I assume you have him on dewormer? Don't want it all to go to worms, of course. You also might try wetting kibble vs dry. (not sure if you differentiated above)


Your saying him eating 2-2.5c 2x a day over 30 minutes is too frequently?


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Nah. I'm saying you said this: "He was eating 4c/ day for 1700kcal " and "He’s 57.8lbs ". I offered some ideas which clearly don't sit well with you. Not my intent, but you said he is 10mos old. I can only speak as an owner of a stellar GS female that apparently dwarfs him.


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

So I noticed you did mention soft serve stools above; I had a look at Open Farm kibble ingredient list for four different formulations, which all included Turmeric. It could be as simple as changing food. Maybe your dog has an alergy to one of the spices they include in their formulas. Here's an example:

_Humanely Raised Turkey, Humanely Raised Chicken, Ocean Whitefish Meal, Russet Potatoes, Garbanzo Beans (Chickpeas), Green Lentils, Field Peas, Coconut Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Ocean Menhaden Fish Meal, Tomato, Apples, Pumpkin, Natural Flavour, Flaxseed, Sun Cured Alfalfa, Carrots, Chicory Root, Salmon Oil, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Vitamin E Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Calcium Iodate,_* Rosemary Extract, Taurine, Cinnamon, Turmeric, *Dicalcium Phosphate

Ya never know. Not being snapish in the "dwarf" comment above. At 10 months, my female was just a very differently built dog than yours. Your dog has a nice build, but to your first question - yes, he might not be getting the best nutrition for "him". Five cups of kibble a day is a lot.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Rionel said:


> Nah. I'm saying you said this: "He was eating 4c/ day for 1700kcal " and "He’s 57.8lbs ". I offered some ideas which clearly don't sit well with you.


Nothing you wrote didn’t sit well with me, I was looking for clarification on what you are saying I am doing wrong/you would change.

From that quote you expressed I am setting him up for constant evacuation by feeding too much food volume too frequently, which is not making sense to me since he only eats twice a day albeit over ~30 min vs ~10 from a bowl, he does not get any other food, other than some knuckle bones or bully sticks every now and then.

I am not forcing him to eat, I offer it and if he doesn't want any more we call it good.

Also, I am absolutely open to changing his kibble and seeing if he does better on GF or beef or a different protein as long as its equal to or better quality.


----------



## ArkAngel (Jan 5, 2011)

Rionel said:


> So I noticed you did mention soft serve stools above; I had a look at Open Farm kibble ingredient list for four different formulations, which all included Turmeric. It could be as simple as changing food. Maybe your dog has an alergy to one of the spices they include in their formulas. Here's an example:
> 
> _Humanely Raised Turkey, Humanely Raised Chicken, Ocean Whitefish Meal, Russet Potatoes, Garbanzo Beans (Chickpeas), Green Lentils, Field Peas, Coconut Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Ocean Menhaden Fish Meal, Tomato, Apples, Pumpkin, Natural Flavour, Flaxseed, Sun Cured Alfalfa, Carrots, Chicory Root, Salmon Oil, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Vitamin E Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Calcium Iodate,_* Rosemary Extract, Taurine, Cinnamon, Turmeric, *Dicalcium Phosphate
> 
> Ya never know. Not being snapish in the "dwarf" comment above. At 10 months, my female was just a very differently built dog than yours. You dog has a nice build, but to your first question - yes, he might not be getting the best nutrition for "him". Five cups of kibble a day is a lot.


He has been on it since 12 weeks, he only had a 2 week bout of soft serve, after a unremarkable full work up at the vet I simply opened up a new bag and tossed the old one and his stools are perfect again, but again I am open to trying diff protein/formula


----------



## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Ah, really glad to hear 'cause I just meant to offer something useful to you. I did go thru several foods at first and some were like that with my dogs. These days I literally only feed 9-12oz of kibble per dog, because of the meat and other foods I use to supplement. But, the current kibble satiates them more quickly than previous ones I used. When I switched over to 16-20 oz/dog of it they often left half of it in the bowl. But now adjusted downward, they look good, maintain their weight. Hope this helps.


----------

