# What do YOU think is the best dry food and why?



## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

What do you think is the best dry food available right now? Is there any company that makes all its food here in the US with NO outsourcing to other countries?
I have fed different types of food. As soon as seems its a great food, I read that its not, or has recalls, or has questionable ingredients. Is there a dry food on the market today that hasn't had ANY recalls?
Just curious what others think.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Well, the best is Vital Essentials. 

But not financially feasible for feeding a GSD. I use it for breakfast and training treats.

Vital Essentials

http://www.chewy.com/s/vital-essentials


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Certainly there are dog foods with no recalls but most recalls are voluntarily initiated by a manufacturer and may not necessarily be indicitive of a systemic problem. 

The big ones are usually "forced" because consumer complaints about an issue surface and can't be swept under the carpet. A good company would issue a recall if a processing error was discovered, and no harm was done if the product did not meet specifications.

Also big companies who make thousands upon thousands of bags of foods are just more likely to have a recall because a small percent of a massive number of products may produce more defect bags total than a large percent of a small number of products from a botique manufacturer....it *could* be the big manufacturer actually has more control over their production line, better equipment etc but the sheer volume of what they produce can result in something here or there.

I think where I get scared with some of the big ones is the amount of time something goes undiscovered!


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## DD126 (Feb 3, 2013)

After you read this, you'll know which is the BEST dog food. Pricier than most, but I bought a huge bag today without hesitation!

From the makers:
Puppy Large

From Reviews:
Orijen Puppy Food | Review and Rating


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Quality wise I have to agree with DD. Orijen is a 100% Canadian product that does their own manufacturing so that they have COMPLETE control over everything that goes into their food and what goes out of their plant. Last year I was talking with the owner of the pet store I bought it from and told her its too bad that they don't make canned (which my old girl would eat more readily than kibble). According to her Orijen has no plans to create a canned line because 1) there is not enough of a return on investment to justify expanding their facilities to include a cannery and 2) they will not outsource the production to anyone because the existing canneries do not meet their standards.

Ultimately, the best food is the one that your dog does best on. Until recently Orijen Adult was the best food for my old girl but she started having trouble with it (too rich). I tried Acana Light & Fit and Performatrin Ultra but she would not even sniff them. I switched her over to Wellness Supermix5 Adult Small Breed and mix it with the Wellness canned Stews and she is back to her old self (barking orders, telling off the visiting puppy and supervising her kingdom). So right now, for her, the Wellness is the best.


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## DD126 (Feb 3, 2013)

A diet rich in protein is great for puppies and adult dogs, but for seniors, a diet too rich in protein is very tough on kidneys. This is true for dogs as it is for humans. With my 18yr old dog, I substituted part of the kibble with unsalted white rice and frozen (for crunchiness) peas and frozen blueberries. Until she passed, her bloodwork and kidney function were ALWAYS great!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Orijen is a good food but it does not sit well with all dogs. It gave my dog the runs and I did not like that fact that after 12 hours of soaking in a bowl of water (experiment) it had not disintegrated. The best food is the food that works best for YOUR dog. I have been very happy with my food, Nature's Logic but it is not for everyone.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If we have a special Orijen-is-wonderful ongoing thread, like the verse of the day, will it mean we won't have to have the ongoing commercial all the time. 

Orijen is dog food. You cannot guaranty the quality of the individual ingredients in the food. Some dogs do not do well on it. I think you can do just as well on a more reasonably priced dog food. For the price you pay for Orijen, you could feed raw meat. You could buy a freezer-beef (an old milk cow) and have it cubed up or ground into hamburger and feed the dog meat, and probably a heck of a lot cheaper. You have to trust the manufacturers of the food if you are not doing it yourself, and just paying more money does not mean it is worth more. 

I fed a food for a couple of years, totally sourced here in the states. And originally all my dogs did good on it. Nothing sourced from China, blah, blah, blah. Then my dogs started dropping wait. And none of my dogs were conceiving on the stuff. I switched and shazaam! 

I won't go with another tiny company. I can't guaranty their junk any better than I can with a bigger company. When this food changes, I will move on to something else. Dog food is a racket.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

For me and my dogs, I like Flint River Ranch Fish and Potato. My dogs do well on it and it hasn't ever had a recall. It works for me, but isn't the food for every dog.


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## mackjordann (Mar 13, 2013)

I heard about this food called Black Wood Dog Food my dog liked it, we got a sample packet. I think its from Canada.

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## irickchad (Feb 6, 2013)

Orijen is fantastic but nearing $80 a bag for dog food is a bit ridiculous. I'm currently feeding Fromm LBP and i personally feel that it's in the same realm. Family owned. Small batches. Whole ingredients. And my pup is doing well on it. That's enough for me. 


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

DD126 said:


> A diet rich in protein is great for puppies and adult dogs, but for seniors, a diet too rich in protein is very tough on kidneys. This is true for dogs as it is for humans. With my 18yr old dog, I substituted part of the kibble with unsalted white rice and frozen (for crunchiness) peas and frozen blueberries. Until she passed, her bloodwork and kidney function were ALWAYS great!


I have heard the opposite. 

ASPCA | Feeding Older Dogs

"Avoid "senior" diets that have reduced levels of protein. Studies have shown that the protein requirement for older dogs does not decrease with age, and that protein levels do not contribute to the development or progression of renal failure. It is important to feed older dogs diets that contain optimum levels of highly digestible protein to help maintain good muscle mass. "

and more links 
http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/protein-requirements-senior-dogs-you-might-be-surprised

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/low-protein-dog-foods/


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

It all depends on your dog, honestly. Only reason we feed BB was because I was looking for a high protein, no grain, large breed food for the GSD. His poops were ridiculous and he shed like none other. The only reason we went for BB over any other food in the store was just because we had a coupon for half off a small bag. He has been doing fantastic on it ever since.

Now, our Collie, while she liked BB, she was doing just fine on Kibbles and Bits. The only reason we switched her was after opening a bag of KB, the rancid smell coming from the bag made my eyes burn. We took the bag back and bought another one; same smell, but worse. We took it back, got our money back, and bought another bag of BB with it.

Now...feed Baxter, my parents' Chow x Husky BB, and he gets itchy and his poops are outrageous. They fed him Beneful until just recently when they switched to Raw due to food allergies.

So, it's all about the dog. Whatever keeps your dog happy and healthy is the best food out there.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

I am very happy with Acana, made by and packaged like Orijen.
It is $80 per bag for some varieties.
However
The BEST dog food is the highest quality dog food that YOUR dog will eat and thrive on.


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## SusiQ (Jul 27, 2007)

I feed Back To Basics and rotate between flavors, but it is also quite pricey. I stock up when I get e-mails from Chewy.com, etc. offering $$$$ off certain dollar purchases - free shipping and no tax.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

Pooky44 said:


> I am very happy with Acana, made by and packaged like Orijen.
> It is $80 per bag for some varieties.
> However
> The BEST dog food is the highest quality dog food that YOUR dog will eat and thrive on.


Further info on Orijen and Acana

ORIJEN Dog Food & ACANA Dog Food are the Best Dog Foods.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We have used Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete, with no problems....(yes there were recalls for Diamond products in the past).
Also...we are using NutriSource Super Performance and Small/Medium Breed Puppy.....and I must say, I really like it.
I will continue to use what my dogs maintain very nicely on...and what I can realistically afford, so that all dogs get what is good for them.

There is NO BEST dog food......because (like all living creatures)....they all have different requirements and tolerances...what is good for one, may not be good for another....JMHO.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

The best dog food for your dog is the food your dog does best on. Both my dogs have their own issues so one is on Fromm and one is on Purina Pro Plan SS. I tried so many of the "best" foods and the Pro Plan is the one that agrees with him.


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

I feed raw now, but in my opinion, Life's Abundance is the best dry food out there. I would only go back to that if I ever stop raw...which I never will!

Life's Abundance has never had a recall, is always less than 6 weeks old from production when you get it, and is made from top quality human grade ingredients! I really believe in this company! I still feed my cats the dry...only because they won't eat raw!

http://www.lifesabundance.com/Home.aspx?realname=20098501


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

jprice103 said:


> I feed raw now, but in my opinion, Life's Abundance is the best dry food out there. I would only go back to that if I ever stop raw...which I never will!
> 
> Life's Abundance has never had a recall, is always less than 6 weeks old from production when you get it, and is made from top quality human grade ingredients! I really believe in this company! I still feed my cats the dry...only because they won't eat raw!
> 
> http://www.lifesabundance.com/Home.aspx?realname=20098501


While I don't disagree that Life's Abundance is a very good food, I don't see anywhere on their website that they claim to use 'human grade' ingredients. I'm fairly certain they use quality ingredients, as (at least as far as I know) their pet foods are manufactured by Ohio Pet Foods, who also manufactures for Dr. Tim's, Annamaet, and VeRUS, among others. Ohio Pet Foods is known for both the quality of the ingredients they use, and their attention to the cleanliness and safety of their facilities.

As far as a 'best food', I personally could not say there is any 'best food'. As others have already said - it really depends on the individual dog. What one dog thrives on another may not. You just have to find a food that works for your individual dog that comes from a company you trust and fits within your budget.


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

jocoyn said:


> Orijen is a good food but it does not sit well with all dogs. It gave my dog the runs and I did not like that fact that after 12 hours of soaking in a bowl of water (experiment) it had not disintegrated. The best food is the food that works best for YOUR dog. I have been very happy with my food, Nature's Logic but it is not for everyone.


Same results here with Orijen, I think its way too rich for a pet that isnt under stress or used to working daily. Mine couldnt tolerate it and i couldnt tolerate the price


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

fuzzybunny said:


> The best dog food for your dog is the food your dog does best on. Both my dogs have their own issues so one is on Fromm and one is on Purina Pro Plan SS. I tried so many of the "best" foods and the Pro Plan is the one that agrees with him.


I just picked up a large bag of Proplan Select sensitive skin and stomach Salmon grain free formula. I was unaware purina even had this food. I paid 33 bucks for a 33lb bag. So far (1 week) all is good. This may be Ramseys new food of choice.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> While I don't disagree that Life's Abundance is a very good food, I don't see anywhere on their website that they claim to use 'human grade' ingredients. I'm fairly certain they use quality ingredients, as (at least as far as I know) their pet foods are manufactured by Ohio Pet Foods, who also manufactures for Dr. Tim's, Annamaet, and VeRUS, among others. Ohio Pet Foods is known for both the quality of the ingredients they use, and their attention to the cleanliness and safety of their facilities.
> 
> As far as a 'best food', I personally could not say there is any 'best food'. As others have already said -* it really depends on the individual dog.* What one dog thrives on another may not. You just have to find a food that works for your individual dog that comes from a company you trust and fits within your budget.


But ya know, it shouldn't. Ok, there are dogs with issues, SIBO and EPI and some with allergies to various meats, dairy and grains that might not do well on a food that _most _dogs do well on. There should be decent foods out there that _normal _dogs generally tolerate without any problems. A lot of the _best_ foods like Orijen for example, I have heard over and again that people's dogs did not do well on it. And this is acceptable??? 

To me, a food cannot be considered for my dogs if I hear from many sources that their dog did not do well on it. I have too many dogs, and I do not want to have 12 open bags of food so each dog can have its own brand, flavor, appropriate age grouping. That's marketing crap anyway. I want a food I can feed all of them, AND wean puppies onto without having colitis attacks, chronic loose stool, or other problems with. 

In the old days, our dogs must have had a digestive tract of iron, as they could tolerate just about the worst garbage food out there, lived to be 15, and never had a loose stool unless they had worms. You really did not hear about all these cancers killing 6 and 7 year old dogs like they do now either. And, the dogs got their shots and then they were pretty much done. Their spay/neuter and year-old booster was the last time they saw the vet until they were being put down at 15 or so. 

Now we shoot them up regular, have dental work done on them, dose them with preventatives and insecticides, spend a small fortune on food or feed them raw, and hear about so many weird, crazy issues the dogs have these days, and the whole breed's lifespan has gone from 12-14 to 10-12, but people say 9 is a respectable age for a dog to reach these days. 9! That means I can expect to lose Babs or Jenna in a year and a half! That's intolerable!


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

selzer said:


> But ya know, it shouldn't. Ok, there are dogs with issues, SIBO and EPI and some with allergies to various meats, dairy and grains that might not do well on a food that _most _dogs do well on. There should be decent foods out there that _normal _dogs generally tolerate without any problems. A lot of the _best_ foods like Orijen for example, I have heard over and again that people's dogs did not do well on it. And this is acceptable???
> 
> To me, a food cannot be considered for my dogs if I hear from many sources that their dog did not do well on it. I have too many dogs, and I do not want to have 12 open bags of food so each dog can have its own brand, flavor, appropriate age grouping. That's marketing crap anyway. I want a food I can feed all of them, AND wean puppies onto without having colitis attacks, chronic loose stool, or other problems with.
> 
> ...


Ok, you're right, I'm wrong.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Actually, I do get Selzers point. My last three dogs have had the best of care, a lot better food than the stuff we fed in the 80s, good excercise, and they died of cancer between 9 and 11.

Before that, my dogs lived to 15 and 14 despite getting heartworms (due to a few months missed-they were on preventive all those years), treating my house perimeter with Dursban (not legal now, powerful insecticide with decades of residual action - most recent home built after Dursban was made illegal, BTW), treating my yard, pouring organophosphate dips on the dogs etc etc.........Never had these issues. Neighbor dog eats Pedigree, 17 year old sibe. I do scratch my head about it all. 

I go, well, what is different? topical flea products and microchips and whatever else we are getting exposed to. More shots? Well that is true....and I have gone back to less shots. Sometimes I wonder maybe the better food isn't better. Actually I was feeding the original Nutro Max back then before it got bought out........

So I really don't know what is best other than what I think SHOULD be best and has good results, at least for now, for my dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Our dogs from the 80's came from dogs from the 70's, etc. - maybe we're just seeing a slow decline in health in general? Maybe it takes decades for all the pollutants to affect the dogs, to work their way into the dogs' genes? My dogs have died of cancer too, and I wonder if our treated tap water had anything to do with it. 

As far as picking the right food, it's confusing that's for sure! The best I can do is educate myself on the basics. For example, I don't get excited when I see meat as a first ingredient, when I know that it's mostly moisture content. I'll leave waving the Orijen flag for someone else, lol. I'm using Acana, and I previously used Fromm. I like the idea of in-house production, but that's just me. I also like to pay my bills, so cost does play into it.

ETA: I wonder how much better the general kibble was way back then too. If maybe there was more left over on the carcasses that went into the dog food. Or if roadkill wasn't on the menu back then either.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I get selzer's point as well, was just having a bad night last night. I'm not sure what to contribute the seemingly more abundant health problems many dogs nowadays face, not to mention the shorter life expentancy. I find it very hard to believe that the food in the previous decades was better than what is available now. Perhaps the environment has something to do with it, the newer and increased amount of vaccinations, GMO products being used in foods, etc. It's really hard to say.

Aside from dogs that have digestive issues like SIBO, and dogs that have ingredient allergies, most foods _should_ work for most dogs. For whatever reason though, that doesn't seem to be the case. Some foods cause dry skin, itching, runny eyes, etc. Some cause certain dogs coats to loose their softness and luster. I think a lot of the time the reason a food 'doesn't work' for some dogs is quite minor and sometimes the food is blamed for things that could actually be attributed to environmental factors. Also, in some cases I think the higher protein foods 'don't work' because of overfeeding and/or under-exercising.

I honestly can't say any of this for sure ... It's all my opinion, and I really have nothing to back up any of it aside from as much reading as I've been able to do on the foods available, the ingredients that go into them, and the companies that produce them. I also know what works for my dog, and try to do the best for her that I can.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think most of us try to do the best we can and I look at it as a warning for us. So many factors. My dog that lived to be 15 was THE most inbred dog I have every owned. Must have had Lance of Fran Jo in the pedigree 10 times and mother to grandfather .... crazy stuff.

IT is the same way with kids.....I knew ONE kid in school who had asthma and nobody had allergies. We got DPT, Polio, and smallpox vaccines-that was it. [and got sick with everything else]But we had to content with fumes from leaded gasoline, lead paint, and our fair share of pollution. I believe pollution was worse in the early 70s. We used more insecticides but did not have GMOs or Roundup. I remember my grandmother hapilly dusting things with sevin dust like mad. 

A lot of stuff, a LOT of stuff, comes from China though.....most synthetic vitamins, I think all taurine as an ingredient etc. ...... and not against Chinese but I have read that even organic vegetables from China may be grown in industrial wastewater.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Good point about the children, Nancy. Allergies, asthma, and now so many with autism too. You know it's bad when you can't bring peanut butter sandwiches for lunch.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You know it could also be that the toxins WE were exposed to set the stage for what is going on with kids now and may have nothing to do with what THEY are exposed to. Epigenetics (related to gene expression) as well as DNA changes (mutations) to the parents

Epigenetics: How our experiences affect our offspring - The Week


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I was just having a conversation with a friend the other day about that. It amazes me the number of children with allergies, asthma, autism, lactose intolerance, ADHD ... Growing up in the 70's and 80's I don't remember but a handful of kids my entire childhood with these problems, now it seems like they are everywhere. I think it is entirely possible that the current generations are subject to the effects that are being passes on by the previous generation's exposure to toxins and the 'miracles' of modern science and technology.

I don't think we've even seen the tip of the iceberg either. The current generation loads itself up on 'miracle cures' for every little affliction. The pharmaceutical industry pumps out new drugs so fast that FDA seems to be releasing them to the general public without much testing only for them to recalled a few years later for side effects that are worse than what the drug was suppose to treat. Who knows what the side effects are going to be down the road, and what effect they will have on future generations. As long as the pharmaceutical industry keeps rolling in the profits, no one seems to care.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Thank you for posting that link, Nancy - it's very, very interesting!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

If I'm remembering correctly, there was no "dog food" until after the second world war. (To selzer's point about dogs having iron guts). People feed their dogs table scraps and bones and meat from the butcher. Kibble wasn't "invented" until after the war and there was an overflow of corn, and someone had the bright idea to "make dog food". 

Here is what I consider the "best" dog food, although I have to admit, I think my dog does a bit better on Orijen 6 fish. This company is awesome. I use(d) the Pioneer Naturals Grain-free.
About Us

Here is an excerpt: 


_"Our products are routinely tested for all contaminants from an Independent lab at Midwest Labs and ingredient activity levels. _
_The facility has an on-site health inspector- this allows us to have additional confidence that our products are clean and up to our high standards. Great Life has never had a recall and makes every effort to satisfy our customers needs! _
_UPDATE-2/4/12- DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE HAS TESTED AND ANALYZED GREAT LIFE DOG AND CAT FOODS AND FOUND THEM TO BE EXCELLENT WITH _*NO*_ DETRIMENTAL CORRESPONDENCE WITH PRODUCTS. WE RECEIVED AN INCREDIBLE LOW RATING OF 0% PROBLEMS.._

_Lab Analysis:_ Great Life routinely checks for Micro-toxins, Heavy metals, Molds, Bacteria growth, etc. at Midwest Labs an independent third party. Tests are conducted for: E-coli, Listeria, Salmonella, Staph aureus, Yeast, Mold, etc. Midwest Labs also tests and does analysis on our products for micro-toxins such as: Ethoxyquin, Aflatoxins, DON (Vomitoxin), Fumonisin, Ochratoxin, T-2 Toxin, Zearalenone, BHA, BHT. All reports show Great Life has been shown as a very clean product line and free of any of the listed problems. 

_Additionally:_ Midwest Labs reports showed Great Life has an extremely high level of active enzymes, probiotics and nutrients. Great Life Performance- Our foods are very active! Consumers switching from commercial brands must transition slowly onto Great Life, usually 2 -3 weeks. If you transition to fast your dog may clean out waste products too fast. 


*Consumer Confidence: *We are delighted that consumers understand that Great Life's protocol of testing ingredients and manufacturing practices alleviates concerns for a safe and healthy food. Great Life is proud of our dedication to an animals' well being.. Please share your experience with us!! 

All products are sourced and manufactured in USA


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think it is important to try to figure out if what we are seeing is just what we are seeing or if there is more information out there. I went looking for studies but just found a couple of things - 
Life in dog years: More pets living longer - Health - Pet health - Creature Comforts | NBC News

This is older - and cites older studies and I can't see the whole thing:
Geriatrics in canine and feline internal medic... [Eur J Med Res. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

This one is keeping me in suspense because I can't read it and the last line on the google search said "Lastly, in general, *life* *expectancy* of the dog is..."
ScienceDirect.com - Research in Veterinary Science - Statistical analysis regarding the effects of height and weight on life span of the domestic dog

I am sure it is harder to find accurate numbers for years past before there was small animal veterinary medicine. 

I think this is a fun blog to read: Science-Based Medicine Longing for a past that never existed

For foods - I think that Pinnacle makes some nice foods, including their grain free line, and Fromm as well. I am not completely sure on their ingredient sourcing. 

Just yesterday CA Natural had a salmonella recall, but I am not even sure why I should care about that so much to be honest - I could be wrong. I am OCD about hand washing after handling dog food and treats. But I really like their Herring formula. I know they've been purchased by P/G. I still use it because my dogs love that food and do really well on it.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

*1.* Orijen *2.* Horizon Legacy *3.* Acana

Having trust in the company is huge for me. Ingredient list is extremely important. In house production is very high on my list. If a company refuses to give out info on who and where their product is made then I would never feed their product. Answering e-mails honestly is another over looked priority iin my world.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Jean - - - 

There is a lot of truth there, however, things like accidents and sickness play a big role in life expectancy. Also we may live longer but do we live better? I think we also pay the price now because people with problems who may not have been able to reproduce are now producing children....._and same is true for dogs_....So how much can we sort out? 

I have seen charts of minerals in vegetables from 1940 vs today and todays vegetables are severely lacking a lot of minerals that used to be in them before industrialized farming. It just makes sense that crops grown in a rich soild enriched by tree leaves or deep grasses (eaten by animals) which contain minerals deep roots can pull up are going to be different than those simply fed NPK fertilizer.

The truth is *somewhere* in there. For my family, I honestly have NOT seen a real change in life expectancy except for disease/accident. Being the oldest of the oldest of the oldest means I remember great grandparents born in the 1800s living until their 80s and 90s. I also had a great uncle who died at 13 due to measles as did my fathers oldest brother who died at 2 so they "reduce" overal life expectancy.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

Interesting discussion. I feed Fromm and am told it is a good food, then I find out yesterday it is low in protein, so am wondering if my dog is getting enough. She's lost weight, and I'm not sure if it is due to me cutting back her food to lose weight purposefully (which I have done), or if her protein is too low. The protein is 23% .

Selzer, I tend to agree with you. My Aussie lived to be about 14, and my collies at least 10. They ate Pedigree or Kibbles & Bits (didn't know better!) and only saw the vet if necessary for (HWP, etc.). I even cut out their vacc. as they grew older as they were inside dogs. Seems dogs do not live as long anymore, with all we do.

Yesterday, I read a Dog Food Analysis re a low quality food and it talked about how much innards and organs and perhaps undeveloped fetuses could be in this is low rated dry food. The poster of the article was horrified his dog could be eating this. Peopler replied that dogs ate this stuff in the wild, and guts were the first thing they went after.... 

I wonder if we are overdoing things, trying to protect our dogs and provide the best for them, but are only hurting them in the long run? Sometimes I get sick of the dog food thing and just want to toss a ground beef patty or chicken breast at her and tell her to "have at it."


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## SusiQ (Jul 27, 2007)

All that has been said is quite true. We are finding that the increase in sterile environments (antibacterial soaps, Purell, etc.) has led to more allergies, etc. because children's immune systems are no longer being properly developed. Amazing that we used to not worry about a little dirt on an apple, etc. - we are far too germ conscious, and as a result, many younger people have immune systems that are far too reactive. I don't EVER remember anyone who was allergic to peanut butter and now there are so many kids at school with allergies that we are required to have a "Peanut-Free" table. Crazy!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We would've starved to death growing up with out peanut butter and jelly. That's pretty crazy stuff.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

SusiQ said:


> All that has been said is quite true. We are finding that the increase in sterile environments (antibacterial soaps, Purell, etc.) has led to more allergies, etc. because children's immune systems are no longer being properly developed. Amazing that we used to not worry about a little dirt on an apple, etc. - we are far too germ conscious, and as a result, many younger people have immune systems that are far too reactive. I don't EVER remember anyone who was allergic to peanut butter and now there are so many kids at school with allergies that we are required to have a "Peanut-Free" table. Crazy!


Honestly I am not sure we are as clean as we think we are! What we do do with this antibacterial nonnsens is good enough to promote resistant bacteria. My mom has spent some recent time in hospital and I cringe watching the nurses wash their hands or do ligh stuff with the hand stuff. My FATHER who was born in 1925 and my mother in 1930 - THEY washed hands and for a long time, and cleaning was bleach, ammonia, and lysol and serious. Seriously the hospice nurse came over today and her hand was sticky and I directed her to the bathroom and asked her to wash her hands!

Though I do agree, kids need to get out in the dirt. We drank from the hose, played in the creeks, got muddy and filthy ate blackberries from the bush and chewed on grass........


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> This one is keeping me in suspense because I can't read it and the last line on the google search said "Lastly, in general, *life* *expectancy* of the dog is..."
> ScienceDirect.com - Research in Veterinary Science - Statistical analysis regarding the effects of height and weight on life span of the domestic dog


So you're not in suspense, the rest of that paragraph is:

Lastly, in general, life expectancy of the dog is inversely related to body size (Li et al., 1996 and Deeb and Wolf, 1994) and thus there is marked variation in life expectancy across breeds (Patronek et al., 1997). This natural variation is intriguing when compared to the study of longevity in other mammals, and access to genetically isolated populations with great differences in life spans provides an ideal and unique opportunity to study the genetic components critical to aging.


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> Jean - - -
> 
> There is a lot of truth there, however, things like accidents and sickness play a big role in life expectancy. Also we may live longer but do we live better? I think we also pay the price now because people with problems *who may not have been able to reproduce are now producing children*....._and same is true for dogs_....So how much can we sort out?


I was thinking that this might be part of the issue as well, especially with dogs. Dogs with food allergies or who are picky eaters/don't do well on a majority of foods might not have been able to grow and thrive enough to produce a litter of puppies if people weren't able to cater to their issues.

I also wonder if it's part of the rise of peanut butter allergies too. My brother-in-law is super allergic to peanuts, and if they hadn't been able to get to the emergency room as quickly as they did when he was a baby, he probably would have died. Of course the doctors also knew exactly what to do for him, which they might not have decades ago? It's interesting to think about, but there are probably too many factors to really know for sure.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

How off topic can this thread go? Ah, who cares, lol. The link that Nancy posted for the epigenetics was so interesting - I found this today, and since autism came up in the conversation, I thought I'd post it.

Women Who Suffered Childhood Abuse More Likely to Have Child with Autism | Psych Central News


ETA: we aren't allowed to bring peanut butter into the schools, period. That's how bad the allergies are.


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