# The Rin Tin Tin Bloodline?



## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

Is it still around?

I've noticed that Daphne Hereford's site is no longer available -- is she still breeding? Did someone else take over for her? Are Rin Tin Tin's descendants still available?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I believe her daughter took over.


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## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

Does the daughter have a website?


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Seth&Co said:


> Does the daughter have a website?


I'm not sure. I just googled rin tin tin. This is what I found 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rin_Tin_Tin


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

put the rin-tin-tin industry to bed.

those dogs were so far removed from the bloodline --- can't there be appreciation without exploitation
that is my opinion


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Seth&Co said:


> Is it still around?
> 
> I've noticed that Daphne Hereford's site is no longer available -- is she still breeding? Did someone else take over for her? Are Rin Tin Tin's descendants still available?


Over the years I've had three dogs from RTT and all three have been fantastic ... intelligent, easy to train, great all round dogs. I currently have one, RIN TIN TIN'S QUANTUM ... Ledgie (my other two were Niki and Mac). 

I sent Daphne a note asking her who you can contact about the RTT dogs. I'll let you know.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

We had a dog back in the 60's, when we lived in Texas, that was from RTT. I have her registered name written down somewhere in my papers, and a photo of her. She was a great dog, and our first GSD.


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## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

arycrest said:


> Over the years I've had three dogs from RTT and all three have been fantastic ... intelligent, easy to train, great all round dogs. I currently have one, RIN TIN TIN'S QUANTUM ... Ledgie (my other two were Niki and Mac).
> 
> I sent Daphne a note asking her who you can contact about the RTT dogs. I'll let you know.


Thank you!

I'm not "in the market" right this second, but I have always wanted one of those beautiful dogs. 

Do you know if any of them have done any work involving scent based detection? (Narcotics, Search and Rescue, Seizure Alert, etc) I have heard that some of them are natural seizure alerts, which is believe to be a scent based thing. I use Seth (GSD mix) for allergen alert as a service dog, but it's a rare thing that nobody really breeds for -- yet any dog with a good nose and a good mind can do it.

Eventually, as Seth gets older, I want to find a GSD with a good mind, a good nose, and a more "old fashioned" body with less angulation and healthy hips/elbows/etc.

Would you say that your dogs have been healthy (especially when it comes to genetic health)?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Seth&Co ... Here's the info about RTT from Daphne: Jessica McRae has some and there are also a couple other ladies who have some. Jessicas website is Hollywood Dogs

Forgot to add they're on Facebook too!!!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Seth&Co said:


> ...
> 
> Do you know if any of them have done any work involving scent based detection? (Narcotics, Search and Rescue, Seizure Alert, etc) I have heard that some of them are natural seizure alerts, which is believe to be a scent based thing. I use Seth (GSD mix) for allergen alert as a service dog, but it's a rare thing that nobody really breeds for -- yet any dog with a good nose and a good mind can do it. ...


Daphne said: "The answer to his question is yes. In fact some of them were used as seizure dogs for a childrens service dog organization"


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## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

Thank you so much for all the info -- and please tell Daphne thank you as well, of course. I really appreciate it.

I think my question might have gotten "lost in the shuffle," so to speak -- do you feel your three RTT babies are/were healthy, genetically speaking?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Seth&Co said:


> Thank you so much for all the info -- and please tell Daphne thank you as well, of course. I really appreciate it.
> 
> I think my question might have gotten "lost in the shuffle," so to speak -- do you feel your three RTT babies are/were healthy, genetically speaking?


Hi Seth ... All three of my RTT boys have been highly intelligent, easy to train, wonderful companions.

Niki was only 7-1/2 years old when he died. He was diagnosed with osteosarcoma of the right front leg and had his leg amputated and he was cancer free. He did great as a tripod ... did every thing on three legs that he did with 4 legs including digging holes in the yard. We never knew what happened, but something happened while he was outside one morning. He was his usual cheerful self, eager to go outside ... everything normal. While outside he collapsed, was not responsive and had to be put down. Except for the osteosarcoma and whatever made him collapse (which we assumed had something to do with one of his legs) he was always healthy, energetic. 

Mac was 12-1/2 and was healthy until he passed away.

Ledgie's only 3 and, knock on wood, so far has been healthy.


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## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

Awesome -- it's always a good sign when someone goes back to the same breeder or bloodline for a third dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the first Rin Tin Tin , found in a bombed out whole in the ground had registration papers handy?

this was in a kennel providing dogs for the German effort , based in Lorraine - a hot potato of a bordering area that had been ceded back and forth between Germany and France since the 9th century. 
Part of the ever changing map of Europe being redrawn even in our modern day.

Qoute---
After Rin Tin Tin died in 1932, the name was given to several related German Shepherd dogs featured in fictional stories on film, radio, and television. Rin Tin Tin, Jr. appeared in some serialized films but was not as talented as his father. Rin Tin Tin III, said to be Rin Tin Tin's grandson but probably only distantly related, helped promote the military use of dogs during World War II. Rin Tin Tin III also appeared in a film with child actor Robert Blake in 1947.
Duncan groomed Rin Tin Tin IV for the 1950s television series The Adventures of Rin Tin Tin, but the dog performed poorly in a screen test and was replaced in the TV show by trainer Frank Barnes's dogs, primarily one named Flame, Jr., called JR, with the public led to believe otherwise. Instead of shooting episodes, Rin Tin Tin IV stayed at home in Riverside. The TV show Rin Tin Tin was nominated for a PATSY Award in 1958 and in 1959 but did not win.

in my opinion -- not perpetuating the original line -- which was so early in the day almost all GSD would have had close , tight , genetic connections as one would expect in the beginnings of a "new" breed .

in my opinion -- perpetuating the benefits of a trade marked name . 
GSD History


this said previously about detection ability is a complete contradiction
quote "but it's a rare thing that nobody really breeds for -- yet any dog with a good nose and a good mind can do it."

I see no evidence on the Rin Tin Tin web site where there is any effort made for any ability - the focus is colour and image,
sable, silver grey, white and black , black and white .

the original Rin Tin Tin was a dark sable .
enjoy this youtube with footage of the ORIGINAL 




- the dog representing the "line" now , shown opening the day at the Stock Exchange is not even close to the original --

my opinion


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

carmspack said:


> the first Rin Tin Tin , found in a bombed out whole in the ground had registration papers handy?


An opposing view can be read here stating Duncan actually bred two dogs and RTT was the product of that breeding. Not saying it's true, just thought it was an interesting read. 

https://rintintinthefirst.wordpress.com/

I think regardless of anyone's personal opinion about the actual breeding program, the promotion of Rin Tin Tin through public appearances, television shows/ads, involvement in charitable organizations etc. have helped to maintain a positive image for the breed. That's not a bad thing.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

popularized the breed -- and maybe this is part to blame for the trouble the breed is in.

everyone and their uncle has bred , is breeding and one day will breed , because they love the "legend" and the ease to sell --without really knowing the breed , or knowing the dog that they have.

hey - I like all the collectible stuff R T T generated -- books , comics , posters -- I even have a vintage 1950's R T T stuffed toy - with original tag .

I don't like the 'trademarked' "line" . 

If the breed is 115 years old then ALL members of that breed represent a CONTINUOUS line to the origin. That is a fact of a breed, members of an authorized breed registry.

They ALL go back to Hektor Linksrhein / Horand Grafrath ---


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

to this point 

quote "
I think regardless of anyone's personal opinion about the actual breeding program, the promotion of Rin Tin Tin through public appearances, television shows/ads, involvement in charitable organizations etc. have helped to maintain a positive image for the breed. That's not a bad thing."

what breeding programme ?

Obviously , hopefully, Duncan loved the dog . He loved the lifestyle that the dog afforded him, the moment in the spotlight , even though the beam focused on the dog.

According to story the dog , the very first dog , was a product of German breeding in the Imperial German kennels , for and by the German's war use . Remember that this piece of real estate , Lorraine, had been passed back and forth several times since the late 1800's (1870's?) .
He is not a "French" dog . 
Maybe the other story that White Shepherd provided making Duncan , an American, the breeder that produced R TT is
anti-German -- re-writting a bit of "trivial history" to make things more palatable, as did the British with rejecting Germanic connections calling the breed Alsation. 
There we go again -- that hot potato little blot of land Alsace-Lorraine . Convenient .

But the point - Duncan did try his hand at breeding . The R T T , Jr , and III - did not come near to the ability that the original had.

That is not a way to start a breeding program of any sort .


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## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

carmspack said:


> this said previously about detection ability is a complete contradiction
> quote "but it's a rare thing that nobody really breeds for -- yet any dog with a good nose and a good mind can do it."


It's not a complete contradiction -- I just explained it rather poorly. 

No one, at least as far as I know, is breeding SPECIFICALLY for dogs with the ability to detect allergens. Breeders have bred for the ability to do allergen work in general, though -- bomb sniffers, narcotic detection dogs, etc.

By a "rare thing" -- I meant that very few service dog handlers are using their dogs for allergen detection. The USE is rare, the ABILITY is not. Hope that clears it up. :smile2:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Seth&Co said:


> It's not a complete contradiction -- I just explained it rather poorly.
> 
> No one, at least as far as I know, is breeding SPECIFICALLY for dogs with the ability to detect allergens. Breeders have bred for the ability to do allergen work in general, though -- bomb sniffers, narcotic detection dogs, etc.
> 
> By a "rare thing" -- I meant that very few service dog handlers are using their dogs for allergen detection. The USE is rare, the ABILITY is not. Hope that clears it up. :smile2:


ah , not really .

Ability , first of all involves more than the physical capability. Dogs do have superior olfactory abilities . To be able to harness and put to use there are many many more qualities in the dog that are required.
Focus. Tenacity. Nose-obedience . Command performance , not some whimsical dog satisfying his curiousity sniffy session 

As to allergens . What exactly is that ? Allergy is pretty much internalized immune hyperactive response - individual to one and not the other.

Not one single breeder needs to breed for allergen , or bomb, or human remains , or drug detection. 
Scent work is over looked . Not glamourous , not title gaining.
A breeder wanting these qualities will be breeding for strong instinctive hunt-search drives , and natural tracking ability , where a track or a find is a powerful REWARD in and of itself.

I don't see any such "lines" (and I look) in the "history" site of the R T T pedigrees provided. I don't see any titles at all .


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## Seth&Co (Jun 14, 2016)

Allergen detection training is specific to the person -- except for programs that do only peanuts. Pretty much, if you have an allergy to something OTHER than peanuts, you need to go independent of the programs.

And it's a new branch of service dog training -- and the approach is often different than "find it for me." After all, you don't want to be led closer to what you're allergic to. Seth is trained to nudge me on the hand with his nose.

In general, I'm looking at various lines -- I doubt I would choose this line for this purpose as my FIRST choice, but I wouldn't rule it out either, if they have had multiple seizure alerters. Allergen alert is more of a "passive" thing rather than being given a command to go find a substance.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

still does not warrant breeding specifically for allergen alert , and it would be a personal use dog not handled by a k9 handler , and no different than any of the detection fields which include , agricultural goods, currency , gas , moths , weevils, cancer growths, moulds and fungus , hey why not - truffles, diabetes , seizure alerts.

they all come from the same drive and nose sensitivity that can be called upon reliably - certification and re-testing.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Seth&Co said:


> Allergen detection training is specific to the person -- except for programs that do only peanuts. Pretty much, if you have an allergy to something OTHER than peanuts, you need to go independent of the programs.


So basically the dog is supposed to pick up the scent and warn you to stay away from it? I looked it up online, pretty interesting. Dogs really are amazing.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

carmspack said:


> But the point - Duncan did try his hand at breeding . The R T T , Jr , and III - did not come near to the ability that the original had.
> That is not a way to start a breeding program of any sort .


Jannettia Brodsgaard Propps dogs didn't come from RTT, JR or RTT III as far as I can tell. They came from RTT IV, via RTT II.

I don't know what the connection was between RTT II and the original RTT/Jr/RTT III or if there was one, (I couldn't find one) only that RTT II was the result of a breeding done by Duncan and the dog was given the RTT name. (Rin Tin Tin II's grandfather was International Champion, Grand Victor Odin von Busecker Schloss, FH, ROM. Odin's half brother was Pfieffer v Bern American Grand Victor and SV Champion)


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## karwelis (4 mo ago)

pfft


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## karwelis (4 mo ago)

Daphne Herefords family bought a couple of bullshit dogs from lee duncan that werent even of the blood liine. and stole the name. the Duncan family never ever gave anyone permission to use the name. i had Flash (the retired tv RinTinTin or as some of you call him RTT IV). and i have the only true blood line


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