# Looking into a few breeders casually



## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Ok, so for those of you unfamiliar with my other recent thread, I would really love to own a Malinois or even a Dutch Shepherd, but a German Shepherd might be my best option. I would like to narrow down a handful of breeders I really like and I would like your opinions! I am interested in WGWL as from what I can tell, they are great for sport and I think they are beautiful and efficient in their work. 

These are the breeders I have picked out that I like king of in the order in which I rate them. I do not know anything about reading pedigrees and such so I am going by information on the website and the dogs only. Feel free to speak up about anything you don't like or that you do! If you'd like to add your own recommendation, feel free. I am open to anywhere in the US. I attempted to look around my area (NJ) but I did not find anything truly in my area.

Sportwaffen K9
German Shepherd Dog, True Haus Kennels
:: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::
https://kraftwerkk9.com/
Workingdog Kennel van Gogh


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Personally, I'd scratch Kraftwerk off the list for a myriad of reasons. All of the others would get thumbs up in my opinion and certainly be worth talking with to see if they would have a pup that is a good fit for you.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

How far from where you are would you be willing to drive? There a many good breeders on the east coast that should be within driving distance to you...


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## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

i'm kinda with chris, seems like there are problems with kraftwerk, just look it up on pedigree or here http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/168867-dog-returned-sender.html


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My trainer is friends with the owner of Van Gogh kennels and she highly recommends them. I have been told by others that these dogs may not be for first time GSD owners.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

You guys are fast! Thank you for the information about Kraftwerk. It's unfortunate what happened that that pup that was returned. 

I am willing to drive a reasonable distance. No more than 7-8 hours MAX. 

Also guys, keep in mind I have about a year before I will be in a comfortable situation to have this dog so I have time. I am not looking into breeders that have pups available now or in the very near future. I am willing to wait for that perfect dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

did you look at Johnson-Haus?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> did you look at Johnson-Haus?


:thumbup:

And 

:: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Have you done a search for the different kennel names in the breeding section? If you look in the upper right corner of your screen where it says "search," click the little triangle next to it and go to "advanced search." You can search for specific kennel names by post or by thread and you can narrow it down to a specific section. I'd search for those kennels in the breeding section. Most of them have been discussed several times before.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Jax, I have not. I will check them out.

Emoore, the search function on this forum is how I made up this list, actually. 

The first thing I do when I like a breeder is check out what people on the forums have to say about them. I am pretty confident you guys will tear apart anyone that isn't up to par!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Also look into Wolfstraum and Wildhaus.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Claudia from van gogh is very nice and the dogs I've seen from her are nice. she put on facebook a few days ago she has 3 dogs going to nationals this year. Not that that makes a good breeder but I think it's impressive considering how few litters she has and they are all from the same bitch


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Wildhaus is also a one on my list. I don't know why I didn't post them up as well. Sorry Chris! 

I like Johnson-Haus so far. Checking out Wolfstraum now.


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## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> Claudia from van gogh is very nice and the dogs I've seen from her are nice. she put on facebook a few days ago she has 3 dogs going to nationals this year. Not that that makes a good breeder but I think it's impressive considering how few litters she has and they are all from the same bitch


Claudia is known as a good trainer. She does not breed all that much though. I almost got a dog from her last breeding but she changed up the sire at the last minute and so I decided on another breeding instead. She is very responsible and caring though.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Is Adler Stein a WGWL breeder?

Adler Stein Kennels-German Shepherds-German Shepherd Puppies-Working Line German Shepherds

Love, love, love Ikon vom Adler Stein.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Vicky said:


> Is Adler Stein a WGWL breeder?
> 
> Adler Stein Kennels-German Shepherds-German Shepherd Puppies-Working Line German Shepherds
> 
> Love, love, love Ikon vom Adler Stein.


Yes, NICE dogs. I have met a few dogs from this kennel and thought they were not only lookers but also had pretty nice temperaments. 

Also, I'd recommend you check out Zu Treuen Händen

(I own Ezio from the E-litter.)


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## LukasGSD (May 18, 2011)

I absolutely and highly recomend True Haus. 

But I'm with the others, I would scratch Kraftwerk off the list.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I can vouch for True Haus: nice dogs, great bloodlines, and Cindy is great to work with--they stand by their dogs. You'd have to have a pup shipped to you, obviously, as they're in California.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Vinnie, I checked out Zu Treuen Händen briefly. I love that she feeds raw. It's something I'd like to get into but I've never fed a dog raw or even partially so. 

No worries guys, I crossed Kraftwerk off my list. I trust your judgement and they weren't high on my list anyways. I won't lose sleep over it. 

Even though I am a year away from owning a dog, this is so absolutely exciting. When do you guys recommend I begin contacting breeders? Does the initial contact begin with filling out their "forms" or questionnaires or just an introductory e-mail? I can not provide them with my living information as I am not moving into my own space until I graduate in May. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you to everyone who has already replied!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would contact them now with your intentions. Most of the breeders you've posted about don't have many litters per year, so it would be best to let them know you are interested in upcoming breedings. 
Depending on what you want to do with your pup, there are other breeders worth recommending. Some may have more pup than what you want, however!
I would definitely check out Wildhaus 
And~
http://www.weberhausgsd.com/
http://www.bojovnikak9.com/puppies.htm


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks onyx'girl! I am not a huge fan of Weberhaus. I know, I know I shouldn't be only judging by the looks of the dogs but it's just not the look I like. I really like Bojovnikak's female. I've saved them on my list!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jax08 said:


> My trainer is friends with the owner of Van Gogh kennels and she highly recommends them. I have been told by others that these dogs may not be for first time GSD owners.


I don't know anything about Claudia's females, but the sire of her last two litters is Halo's sire, so they're half siblings to my girl.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Vicky said:


> Vinnie, I checked out Zu Treuen Händen briefly. I love that she feeds raw. It's something I'd like to get into but I've never fed a dog raw or even partially so.


Lisa is a great supporter to her puppy owners (and others for that matter) on raw feeding and in other areas. Training, raising, behavior, development, etc. I love that I know I can email her anytime, even for the smallest/dumbest things. 

Check out the raw section of this board and you'll see she helps answers many questions for people already (who aren't her puppy owners). For me, since I was planning on getting one of her puppies and always wanted to feed raw, she recommended books, websites and talking with her (experienced person) to help me learn prior to getting our puppy and feeding all of our dogs raw. I even stood around and watched her feed her dogs and asked questions when we went to pick up our little boy. 

Feel free to PM me on this breeder. I'll be happy to go on and on and on and on. :wild: 



Vicky said:


> Even though I am a year away from owning a dog, this is so absolutely exciting. When do you guys recommend I begin contacting breeders? Does the initial contact begin with filling out their "forms" or questionnaires or just an introductory e-mail? I can not provide them with my living information as I am not moving into my own space until I graduate in May. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you to everyone who has already replied!


I started checking out breeders LONG before (more than a year) I settled on which breeder I wanted a puppy from. I would start contacting breeders as soon as you feel ready. There really is a lot to talk about - on both your and the breeders end. I made my decision before the breeder even knew for sure when she was going to do the next litter and who the sire was going to be. I was 3rd on the list and lucky as the litter only produced 3 puppies! Lucky too that one of those 3 puppies was a match for me.  Those waiting lists can fill up pretty fast.

Enjoy the full experience of the puppy search. Go out and meet dogs/watch videos and talk to people. Enjoy all the dogs you'll see and the new people you'll meet. It's a lot of fun! (and excitement) :laugh:


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for the info Vinnie. It makes me feel better that I'm not crazy for contacting breeders this early. I want to narrow my list down more before I begin doing anything, but I will definitely make sure to get the ball rolling. I feel like it will make it so much easier once I'm ready for my dog that I will already be on a list and the breeder(s) will know what I'm looking for and they will be comfortable with me as an owner.


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## IllinoisGSD (Sep 21, 2011)

I _really_ like Struka from Sportwaffen.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Ok guys, updates thus far!

I have been doing loads of research since I started this thread and have already learned a great deal more. I will have the chance to go out and see a herding club lesson in the next couple of weeks, I will be going to see a PSA club meeting this weekend and will get the chance to meet a True Haus dog, and hopefully will be going to CT next weekend or soon thereafter to meet the owner of La Forge Malinois and watch her French Ring club train as well as meet some dogs she bred. I have also been in touch with a breeder who focuses mainly on KNPV lines for Police work but also competes in sport. I really like her and her dogs and I plan on going to watch her trial and/or making the drive to see her facilities in WV. It's all extremely exciting!

I have not seen any clubs train or met any dogs as of right now, but from the research I've done so far, I find myself really drawn to ringsport. However, I'm not sure how able I will be to find a club that I can train with. I'll know better once I meet more people as there are a few from another forum that have offered to let me come out. I also really, really like PSA, possibly just as much as ringsport, again, only from what I have read and watched in videos. This might completely change once I get out there and see things with my own eyes. I'm not opposed to changing my mind, just thought you guys should know how I'm moving along with my search. I'm looking for as much help as possible along the way! 

I found myself much more drawn to Malis/Dutchies as I spoke with the breeder I mentioned above and because of my preference for ringsport. However, I can't help but think about how it might be a good idea for me to start with a working GSD. I feel that if I go for a Mal/Dutchie, I will be okay with knowing that I will be getting a lower octane dog and I don't want to contribute to the belief that it is okay to breed "down" so that less experienced handlers can handle that breed. I really hate that and I have nothing against GSDs. I actually really like them. The general consensus seems to be they are easier to have in the house, which is the only thing that makes me think I should start with the GSD. Correct me if I'm wrong, or feel free to offer your opinions or ask questions if I am just rambling nonsense.

Finally, I e-mailed True Haus since I really like their dogs, even though I won't be able to go out and meet them, and they compete in PSA. James was very nice in his e-mail, straightforward and honest, however, I was put off by the fact that he made a statement about having too many dogs on the east coast to look any of them up when I asked if there were other True Haus dogs on the east coast for me to meet. I understand being strapped for time, but not knowing at least one or two other dogs in my neck of the woods? I really do understand how busy these people must be, but I can't help but be extremely discouraged with that. 

All in all, I am still not sure the direction I am definitely going in yet. Can anyone recommend breeders that compete in PSA rather than only Sch?


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Vicky said:


> All in all, I am still not sure the direction I am definitely going in yet. Can anyone recommend breeders that compete in PSA rather than only Sch?


I think if a breeder is breeding a good working dog, it doesn't matter is they compete in one or the other. The dog should be able to perform in either one provided you have a good trainer to help.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

I agree Ace, but from what I have seen and the advice given to me by many people, not all dogs are bred equally and finding a breeder that titles/works in the sport venue I'd like to try would benefit me. I know I'm not looking to get to the top of the sport, but I'd still like to be able to compete if possible. 

I think I'm going to contact Bojovnika. They were on my list before, they are within driving distance, and I like their dogs. Someone on another forum was a decoy for their bitch, Ema, and he was thrilled with the way she worked. I'd love to see if I can get out and see their dogs.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would definitely contact Melanie.
She knows what she is doing, and if I was close enough, I'd love to visit. I also would love to meet Andy, he gave me the best companion I could ever imagine!


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I would definitely contact Melanie.
> She knows what she is doing, and if I was close enough, I'd love to visit. I also would love to meet Andy, he gave me the best companion I could ever imagine!


Onyx'girl, you have a Bojovnika dog right? I believe you were the one to suggest them to me in this thread, actually. Could you tell me a little bit about your dog? If it's easier to PM, that's fine with me, if you'd like to chat that is.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

No, I have a Wildhaus G litter pup, that was sired by Andy Maly Vah, who Melanie owns.
I have watched so many training vids from them, though....I don't think you'd go wrong with an Ema pup! I think training with their group would be a big bonus!


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

That's the thing about rinsport--few and far between. If you decide you don't like the club or think somewhere else might be a better fit, you likely won't have anywhere else to go. And it's SO different from SchH so it's not like you'll easily be able to switch between them if needed. Not to discourage you--I train at a French Ring club (not in FR, but to help with the club and do my own thing) and think it's neat. But if it was my main focus and the club broke up....I believe the Boston, OH, or Pittsburg area are the next closest. 

I would look for "sportier" types of dogs if you are interested in going into ringsports. They will work in SchH too, but also ringsport if you decide to go that route. 

One thing that kind of has turned me off about FR (and I don't know if this is the case across the board since I don't "do" this competitively, but it is the impression that I get) is that I feel like they rush both handler and dog....not really a minimum age limit to compete. I think there is a good reason why the dog should be 18 months old in SchH to title. I don't like the fact that it seems to be almost expected that dogs are ready for their Brevet right around a year....how on earth are you using the proper drives and aggression when they are so mentally immature?!

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. Not familiar with PSA, SDA, or Mondio so i can't comment too much on that. I have been to a KNPV seminar and it's definitely awesome--love all the scent work and water retrieves--but again.........like 2 places in the US to train for it?


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Onyx, hey, that's good enough for me! I'm not set on either of their dogs yet as I don't know much about them other than what I've read on the website. I'll shoot you a PM.

GSDElsa, good food for thought, honestly. I have thought a lot about that seeing as there are so many more options in Schutzhund than the other sports. I will take that into consideration because as dedicated as I want to be, I can't see driving two hours away more than once a week and that is just pointless in my eyes. I am not set on a sport, even though I really seem to like ringsport. Like I said, I still need to get out there and see it for myself. 

Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by "sportier" for ring sport? I've heard the term before and the way I have interpreted it, it seems to mean that the dog is not going to or less apt to apply the reactions in training/trial in real life. I'm sorry if that didn't make sense, haha. I'd just like to understand everyone's advice since you're all taking the time to help me learn.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Well, I think people train FR just like SchH using different drives, but from what I've seen it's heavier on the prey side....more of "it's a biting game"..kind of hard to explain, but it's almost more of a "psychological" aggression than "fighting" aggression. I'm sure that's a HORRIBLE way to explain it. Quicker movements....almost like the dog and decoy are in a battle of the minds. It's just a different type of pressure.

I'm sure it depends heavily on the club you are a member of. I go to a SchH club that works a lot more in defense (heavy on table work) rather than prey. And the FR club I go to is basically all prey and not into much defense. Other SchH clubs are more into it being a game with sleeve happy dogs....and there are probably FR clubs that like more civil dogs.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

No, I totally understand what you're trying to say. I know that every club likes to train differently, as you have said, but do you find Sch trained dogs are more civil or "sleeve happy", this is all a game type animal?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Most of my Beaucerons came from ringsport lines. Since schutzhund was more readily available in the area that is what I pursued. The general needs and drives are pretty much the same so getting a dog from proven schh lines should work in whatever venue works for you. Oh, and another kennel to look at is Hillview in Tennessee.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

If you have some local clubs, why don't you go out and meet some dogs, and get some kennel recommendations there before you go any further?

I thought I knew what I wanted, then I went out and actually started training with the local club. It definitely changed alot of what I thought I knew. 

We're now getting a puppy from a breeder that our TD pointed us towards, and I feel much better equipped to make those choices. Get out to a club or two and meet some handlers and dogs. It might really change what you think you want...


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

BR780, I stated in my update that I have plans in the next few weeks to get out to clubs and meet dogs so I am in the process. Not trying to sound snappy, just wasn't sure if you read all of it. 

Also, this is only introductory. I am not close to actually choosing a breeder as I am not able to own a dog yet. This is just a lot of research to help me learn more about working dogs, dog sports, and breeding before I make that choice.

EDIT: I am more than ready to accept advice from a trainer. However, it will take more than just one meeting for me to trust someone with giving me direction as far as breeders go. I know I am lacking experience, but I have a pretty good idea of what I am looking for. I can tell how politic a lot of clubs/trainers can be and I don't want to be dragged into that and end with up something the club/trainer would love to have but not quite what I want. Everyone is different and again, I will be taking advice from the trainer I ultimately choose once I am comfortable and have moved to the area I will be living in in the future.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Vicky said:


> BR780, I stated in my update that I have plans in the next few weeks to get out to clubs and meet dogs so I am in the process. Not trying to sound snappy, just wasn't sure if you read all of it.
> 
> Also, this is only introductory. I am not close to actually choosing a breeder as I am not able to own a dog yet. This is just a lot of research to help me learn more about working dogs, dog sports, and breeding before I make that choice.


No, you didn't sound snappy. Just sayin I was sorta where you are not long ago. Going out and joining a club really changed my perspective.

I think you'll find that the clubs will be able to point you to breeders and breedings that you aren't gonna find by searching the web. Plus you'll probably meet some dogs there that you'll be like "Whoa! That dog was amazing, I want one just like that..." and they'll be able to point you to breeders that can make that happen*.

*slight exaggeration for effect. Of course you will never get a dog exactly like another.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

No, what you said makes complete and total sense. I already change my mind 50 times over, I imagine once I see some more dogs it will definitely put things in perspective.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Have you checked out this Dutch Shepherd breeder?

Vrijheid Dutch Shepherds -

A friend of mine has one of the "G" litter males and she absolutely LOVES him. Dogs from this kennel are doing SchH, FR, ect..... She has also bred several that are now police K9s.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Vicky said:


> No, I totally understand what you're trying to say. I know that every club likes to train differently, as you have said, but do you find Sch trained dogs are more civil or "sleeve happy", this is all a game type animal?


In the dog world I live in, the schh dogs are definitely more "real"in my opinion than the fr dogs I'm around. But obviously those sleeve happy dogs exist since that is a main complaint about the sport. So it goes back to training and the club. I can't tell you what ring clubs train differently, if at all, than mine since my exposure is limited.

you are definitely going about it the right way by visiting lots of places. Talking to people and seeing videos does not really give a true idea of what you are going to feel once you get out there.

If you only take one thing from me-this is the most important imo-it does not matter what sport you choose. If you do not have mentors in the club who are not just good dog trainers but also good people trainers you will grow to hate it. There are a lot of people who do great with dogs.....but are disasters with the people (this really goes for new handlers trying to sort things out) that are at the end of the leash. no matter what sport you pick, if you have a good mentoryou will learn invaluable information that will carry over to anythingyou do, even if you go another route.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

There are so many awesome breeders out there! I think that once you have decided on what "lines" you are the most interested in you should look to find a breeder that you can develop a very good relationship with. For me buying a dog from a breeder is almost like forming a partnership. My breeder is someone I can call with any question and trust her to give me honest answers. When I am ready to buy another dog, she will be the 1st place I look because I trust her.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thank you both. This is great advice and I am certainly listening to everything you've said.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Definitely visit the clubs (either SchH or Ring) and get a feel for the people. Then, once you are comfortable with them you can ask for suggestions for breeders. Be careful of the clicks in some clubs where you almost feel you must own one of their dogs (heavily promoted by them) to belong to their club.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thank you lhczth! That's partially what I'm wary of. Too much politics in dog breeding and way too many people who aren't really in it for the breed. I appreciate your advice, thank you.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

BlackGSD said:


> Have you checked out this Dutch Shepherd breeder?
> 
> Vrijheid Dutch Shepherds -
> 
> A friend of mine has one of the "G" litter males and she absolutely LOVES him. Dogs from this kennel are doing SchH, FR, ect..... She has also bred several that are now police K9s.


Yes, I think that's one of the few good ones.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for continuing to suggest for me guys, even though I seem so uncertain. I'm getting up in the morning to go meet some Shepherds and Mals at a PSA club and watch them train. 

Also, I contacted Bojovnika and was so happy with speaking with Melanie. She was so incredibly nice and praised me on my thoroughness before buying a pup. Ema is only being bred once more I believe before continuing some serious training (or something along those lines) and her last litter does not coincide with my indefinite schedule, unfortauntely. Even after knowing I won't be purchasing a dog from her, she is continuing to e-mail me and show an interest in pointing me in the right direction. 

I am also going to contact Adler Stein, even though I would really like to meet the dogs in person. I am so impressed with Anne's philosophy and her stud, Ikon. All her dogs look fantastic. Who knows, maybe I can manage a plane ride out to visit if she's welcoming. Even if she isn't "the one", I am going to reach out since I have already gotten the ball rolling with e-mailing breeders and just looking for any advice people are willing to give. This process is so much fun for me and I am going to be so ecstatic when that perfect pup finds its way into my life. I just can't wait.


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