# Best way to train Nara not to bark at other dogs?



## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Here's Nara's story:

When she was about 3 and a half months old, we started taking her to the local dog park for socialization. Prior to that we would take her anywhere and everywhere possible. She was very well socialized. The dog park seemed to be her favorite place, so we increased our time there to 7 days a week. While there, she would try to entice other dogs into playing "her games" of chase and keepaway, etc. Some dogs (the less socialized ones) would run and hide under the picnic table or between their owners' legs. Nara would let out loud YIP barks basically saying "come play with me!" It was cute at first, but when it didn't stop, it got annoying, so I would distract her or redirect her toward dogs that were already running and going bonkers so she would leave alone the dogs that were not interested in playing. Now remember, she was a young girl and wasn't big and "intimidating" like most think when picturing a full-grown GSD.

Nara went to the dog park from 3.5 months old until we got Paw Paw, so that would've made her close to 8.5 months. The two of them would exercise each other in our big fenced in backyard, which wore them out as good, if not better, than being at the dog park, and it saved us time, gas and money from travelling back and forth. We would invite other dogs over for puppy playdates, and would still take them on walks around the neighborhood or at local festivals with tons of people (some of whom brought out their dogs too). 

Fast forward to the first week of November 2008 when Nara got spayed. She was unable to get overexcited during the healing process, so by the time her wound finally looked good enough to let her run, we went back to the dog park. Well, I will never blame the removal of her ovaries for what happened next, but something in her changed for good. Her backyard play with Paw Paw turned into wrestling and rough-housing, which would escalate until someone would end up limping or bleeding. They were playing, and certainly not fighting, but it got carried away and I put an end to it.

I figured that, maybe they need to relearn what being a dog is all about, and what better way to remember the proper ways for dogs to play than at the dog park where other big dogs can teach/remind them. We went about 5-7 times total, and each time it got worse and worse. Not only did Nara and Paw Paw reveal that they had developed a pack mentality double-teaming every dog there, but Nara was showing teeth, barking like crazy (much louder, bigger BARKs now from a much bigger gal) and was fearless of any size dog, to include 100+ lb dobermans, etc. who would probably eat her for breakfast. Haha!

It got so bad that, as soon as I would pull up to the dog park, everyone would clear out and go home. I felt horrible. What happened to my baby?...my little girl who was literally everyone's favorite dog at that dog park just three months ago? Where did she run off to? And who was this dog that replaced her? A dog-aggressive dog? Is she though? I didn't see this coming. At the same time, when she would find a big dog that wanted to play like big dogs, she would run and play and, even though she would wrestle and rough-house with them and they with her, there was no yelping from either party, and tails were happily wagging the entire time.

After we cleared out the dog park that last time, and after reading a lot on these forums from owners of older dogs (GSDs, dobermans, etc.) who claim that a dog park is a terrible place for mature/maturing dogs (great for socializing puppies though!), we have vowed never to return. It seems that the potential for a real all-out dog fight is greatly increased when you have alpha/dominant adult dogs all thrown into a single "pack" together, and especially when said "pack" changes daily or even hourly. Made sense to me. So that was it for us!

Now we're reserved to just walking or running whenever the weather is nice, which is pretty often here in Virginia. Well, whenever Nara and Paw Paw see another dog, Paw Paw (the silent sled dog) pulls like crazy and Nara (the not-so-silent guard dog) BARK BARK BARKs. We thought, at first, that she was telling us "I want to go play with that dog over there!" But that was just us trying to convince ourselves that it was harmless to save us from internal embarassment. Over time, we changed up our story to "well, maybe she's trying to alert us of that 5 lb threat (dog) over there." But these dogs, small and large, were never really a threat to us, her or anyone. So why is she barking? And if she is being a guard dog, why is she only barking at dogs, and not humans who might be "bad" people?

We've been doing tons of research to figure out how to correct this behavior. We want her to bark, but only when given the "speak" command, that we're trying to teach her but she hasn't learned yet. We read that, in order to get a dog NOT to bark, you have to teach them when it's OK to bark. That's where the "speak" command comes into play. We also thought that one bark is good, as an alert bark, but after that we give her the "quiet" command with the hand signal and verbal, and then quickly reward her with a treat as soon as she stops barking. Also, while on walks, when she barks at another dog who might also be on a walk or behind a fence, if she doesn't follow and obey the "quiet" command, we make her sit, stay and then I stand between her and the other dog to block her view and to get her to focus on me, and I tell her to "watch me" then "quiet" then give her a treat when she listens and follows. As soon as she calms down and stays quiet for a few more seconds, I tell her "OK!" and "follow me" and we continue our walk. This is usually enough to keep her from barking again at that dog.

She's improved greatly over the last few weeks, but this behavior still goes on and doesn't seem like it's ever going to go away for good. She's got it down now that she can anticipate the houses that have dogs, or I'll notice that as we walk, she is looking for houses with fences (chain link or wooden privacy fences) and, even if they don't have a dog, she starts getting all worked up, pulling on the lead, breathing heavy, and "preparing for the bark." She's a smart girl, and we make sure to walk a different direction/route each day, but she knows all of the houses that have dogs, no matter what way we go, and no matter what block/how far away in the neighborhood they live. 

She will be in our backyard playing or going potty, and if another dog passes our house, she goes ballistic, barking and running back and forth. Again, in the beginning, we thought she was just guarding the house, but now we know differently. 

What are we doing wrong? What can we do to improve our techniques? Can someone diagnose her behavior? She is still greatly socialized, and doesn't have any fears or anxieties that we can see. Are we doing it right and just need to be patient? Did the spaying, a procedure that's supposed to make dogs calmer, actually have a reverse effect and made her aggressive? Remember, she never acted this way until after we got her spayed. 

Sorry this is so long. I'm sure there are more details, but it's late and I can't remember them all right now. If I think of anything else to assist you in helping us diagnose her "problem" I will post that later. Again, thanks to those of you who read this entire thing. I wanted to be as exact as possible so your diagnosis can also be exact. 

Kevin, Nara and Family!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

distract her.
get a squeezy toy so she will focus on that and not the other dogs
she is gorgeous


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would start by limiting her freedom. She should know that everything she gets comes from you, NILIF(nothing in life is free). http://www.google.com/search?q=nilif&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1 Working on NILIF is a start. You didn't mention if you were in obedience class with her. If not, I suggest this, even if you have already been, get back into a class. Then my next suggestion(my broken record) is to read the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt. http://www.controlunleashed.net/controlunleashed.html It is based on dogs that are reactive to others or won't give their handlers focus. It would be great if you could find a CU class based on this book. I went thru it with Onyx and it was great for both of us. I learned how to read her and re-direct the behavior before she could even act on it. Good luck~Nara is beautiful BTW!


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI would start by limiting her freedom. She should know that everything she gets comes from you, NILIF(nothing in life is free). http://www.google.com/search?q=nilif&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1 Working on NILIF is a start. You didn't mention if you were in obedience class with her. If not, I suggest this, even if you have already been, get back into a class. Then my next suggestion(my broken record) is to read the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt. http://www.controlunleashed.net/controlunleashed.html It is based on dogs that are reactive to others or won't give their handlers focus. It would be great if you could find a CU class based on this book. I went thru it with Onyx and it was great for both of us. I learned how to read her and re-direct the behavior before she could even act on it. Good luck~Nara is beautiful BTW!


Thanks to you both for reading all of that. I assume that, if I had written less, more people would've replied and offered advice. I also see that there are a few other threads about this similar behavior. I've been reading those as well. Now onto your post:

1. How do you limit her freedom while out on a walk? Not take her on walks? I was confused by this. If we're in the backyard, I know I can always put her back inside. But in the backyard, when I tell her "come," she stops barking and comes right over. Then I hold her in sit/stay and talk to her, treat her, distract her until the dog walking by is long gone before releasing her. Then she'll run off, back to the fence and try to get the last word (bark) in before going back to playing quietly. It's mainly on walks where she's pulling, lunging (even if the dog is across the street or behind a fence), and acting up. I can usually talk her through it with "follow me" and "quiet" or "no bark" etc., but I don't want her to speak unless given the command, or unless there's a real threat, which another dog behind a fence or on a leash is not!

2. We had her in basic and advanced obedience and she graduated with flying colors, but that's when she was younger. Again, I was told things change when a dog matures/becomes an adult. I contacted a friend who takes his dogs to a trainer that has a reputation for dealing with problem dogs. Many people have commented that they don't like his "aggressive" methods, but my friends who go there said his methods work. He's actually a GSD breeder and breed-specific trainer/expert, although any breed is allowed in his classes. I guess he's a little rough with the dogs, which is why people said they didn't like his methods. He's received mixed reviews. I guess he's good with the reactive dogs who need a little extra "firm hand" but he's the same way with dogs that don't need it, so certain people love him and others hate his methods. I might try him out if I can't figure this out first, especially when he's most knowledgeable with GSDs in this area, and is the only GSD trainer that I've heard of this side of VA.

3. I just bought that book on Amazon.com. Can't wait to read it. Thanks for offering up that info!!!

4. Thanks for the compliments on Nara's looks! 

Kevin


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Dogs react out of fear most of the time and a "firm hand" is not the right way to manage it. I don't know if I would go with a trainer that is using this type of training. When you take her for walks, bring yummy treats or a high value toy that you use for training only. When she starts the lunging/barking on walks put her in a sit and praise her with treats, get her focus back to you treat and praise her again. If you condition her with this, she will look to you when there are other dogs/people and get treats. There are calming touches as well you can use, but this does take time and if she is ramped up, she will ignore you. Turid Rugaas http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ has a great book and DVD on calming signals. You can watch your dogs body language and stop things before they begin. What type of collar are you using? I put Onyx on a Gentle leader when she was going thru this phase and it did work, though she hated it. We have since graduated to a no-slip martingale, but I can now put a prong on her with no problems when she sees other dogs. The GL when fitted properly will put pressure just below the ears, creating a calming effect on the dog when they start to pull. If you are using a prong, the corrections she is getting(self correcting when pulling even) will add to her level of excitement, so maybe switch to another type collar. Keep reading the threads here there is so much info, as there are many dogs with this type behavior. And see if you can get into another class, even if it is the same obedience again. I would stay with positive training methods for now.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Below is someone's reply from another GSD board, and my answers back. Hopefully this will help some of you help me to narrow it down and find a potential correction.



> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Quote:Unless she is actually getting into fights with other dogs, her actions are not necessarily aggressive so stop assuming so. until she gets into a vicious attack dont deem her aggressive PLEASE
> ...


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlDogs react out of fear most of the time and a "firm hand" is not the right way to manage it. I don't know if I would go with a trainer that is using this type of training. When you take her for walks, bring yummy treats or a high value toy that you use for training only. When she starts the lunging/barking on walks put her in a sit and praise her with treats, get her focus back to you treat and praise her again. If you condition her with this, she will look to you when there are other dogs/people and get treats. There are calming touches as well you can use, but this does take time and if she is ramped up, she will ignore you. Turid Rugaas http://www.canis.no/rugaas/ has a great book and DVD on calming signals. You can watch your dogs body language and stop things before they begin. What type of collar are you using? I put Onyx on a Gentle leader when she was going thru this phase and it did work, though she hated it. We have since graduated to a no-slip martingale, but I can now put a prong on her with no problems when she sees other dogs. The GL when fitted properly will put pressure just below the ears, creating a calming effect on the dog when they start to pull. If you are using a prong, the corrections she is getting(self correcting when pulling even) will add to her level of excitement, so maybe switch to another type collar. Keep reading the threads here there is so much info, as there are many dogs with this type behavior. And see if you can get into another class, even if it is the same obedience again. I would stay with positive training methods for now.


I agree. Going to this trainer will only be as a last resort, after I've read that Control Unleashed book, and done more research to correct this myself. I'm all about the positive training/reward techniques. Thanks again!!!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

She maybe not fearful at all, actually, and she just wants to do what she was always allowed to do with no concequences (she learnt to intimidate shy pups when she was a tiny girl so why she has to stop at this point when it's actually even more fun and more rewarding to do it? ) I would recommend to see the trainer for evaluation because Nara actually may need that 'firm hand' (which may mean different things to different people and trainers). 

Yana was fearful and no treats or the techniques described above (believe me, I tried everything myself and with trainers) would break her fixation. After a complete failure with purely positive approach I stopped asking her for sit, stopped redirecting, stopped trying to keep her focused on me or anything, I did not avoid people and dogs, I was just going where I was going with her in heel position (strong correction if heel was broken) and started demanding 100% obedience anywhere, anytime, home, petsmart, whatever. As a result Yana developed complete trust in my ability to handle the situation and stopped her fearful display (with hackles, growling etc) but I would not achieve this with treats. Every dog is different.


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## Northof60 (Feb 15, 2009)

Kiah just started acting up when we are on walks and she sees other dogs. She was fine until a couple of weeks ago. So I take treats and when she starts going mad, I make her sit and treat to get her attention solely on me again. It seems to be working but then she got spayed so hasn't been out much and definitly nowhere she would get agitated.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

From my experience, when the dog goes mad it's too late to redirect and the only solution is to quietly remove him from the situation. The last thing what we want is to create an association 'bark at the dog and get the treat' in their heads







But again, it's from my experience because trying to control Yana when she was in her mad psycho mode was the same as trying to control a tornado.


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## Northof60 (Feb 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07From my experience, when the dog goes mad it's too late to redirect and the only solution is to quietly remove him from the situation. The last thing what we want is to create an association 'bark at the dog and get the treat' in their heads
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She associates the treat with the sit and the focusing on me. If she for a second was still in anyway going mad or not focusing on me, she wouldn't get the treat.


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