# what reliable information from conf. showing?



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

hi i am involved with a small commercial cattle stud - conformation showing was forever an essential part of staying in business. a breeder that did not show soon found another job. 

in recent decades the focus on showing has diminished to the point of it being little more than a social event. most breeders don't need to bother.

the reason is that science has given us tools that are more accurate than a human judge watching a beast walking around a ring, in fact there is little correlation to a show winner and a high performing stud animal.

so what is the role of dog showing in the modern era in relation to assessing the quality of an individual animal as representatives of the breed standard??


PS i own my first, one and only GSD.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Are you comparing an animal that is just meant to produce large, meaty specimens to something that is meant to work, think, and interact with humans?

I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at...but I'll take a stab.

Canines have extremely malleable DNA. It changes extremely quickly and therefor traits of the parents get passed on much quicker. I'm also guessing dog DNA is way more diverse than cattle. A cow...is a cow. Good producer of milk/meat/manure? I'm imagining a cow and I have a hard time believing they have different personalities in the same way that dogs do. And when it comes to conformation...there are a lot of little things that you have to look for.

Studding/breeding isn't about being a good producer. The female has a lot of affects on the pups, and also produces 5-10 at a time, so you can see how easy it is to quickly affect a generation of dogs by using one stud. But even a stud dog won't produce consistent puppies depending on the female he is bred to.

So I'm really not sure what science can tell you about a stud when it comes to canines. Except possibly a high sperm count and that the dog himself is healthy.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

cattle may not be the best example. i could have for the sake of argument used pigs, rice, potatoes......whatever, all of which were once judged by inspection only but now rarely and for no important information about the genes. but this is not a cow or farm forum, the point is as the thread title says tho - having said that you obviously have a limited knowledge on beef or any other agricultural consumer product market demands, there a range of complex criteria in beef production, plant production and nearly every agricultural product. your view reflects a modern type of ignorance to the complexities of commercial agriculture - but i digress. 

back to the question tho, what kind of information can you get about a dogs fitness to breed or rate it as a the most excellent representative of the breed by judging it's appearance, colour, type etc by walking/trotting around a ring and feelling its nuts (i don't really know what they do exactly), all breeds follow the same general format do they not? so how does one using the same test format distinguish the traits stated in the standard when looking at a GSD or an eskimo dog????

sperm count and health sound like a good start - is this a mandatory requirement to be judged a champion of the breed, i am hoping so. what health test are mandatory to win a show??


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

All I know is that the things you are discussing are homogeneous. Very easy to duplicate crops and pretty much make them clones of one another. So the biggest difference is the complexity of the genetic codes you're trying to compare. I'm not sure how prominent line breeding is in cattle...but in dogs it causes huge issues.

What you're talking about is testing for genetic disease...sadly, we don't know that much about genetic disease. There are a lot of tests out there that can rule out being carriers of certain diseases but they are not required. I don't even think that OFA is a requirement to win a championship, but it is usually required to breed (people that know won't accept a dog bred without OFA).

When it comes to dogs...structure, temperament, drive, is very very important. In some ways you can say its more important than guaranteeing perfect health. Where as with cattle/crop those things take a back seat to health. Genes can't tell you anything about a dog's structure, temperament, drives, work ability, ect.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

x11, I know what you are asking, but can't think of a good way to answer you. Hope this helps. 

You do have to get away from your understanding of animals bred for meat production when looking at dogs (or horses). While overall skeletal structure and soundness are important in meat or dairy animals, their purpose is to carry that animal from point A to point B for as many years as needed. Obviously there are other things that are looked at such as breed type, muscle, scrotal circumference, pelvic area, etc, but livestock do not "work" or at least were not bred to work (jump, fast turns, agility, protection, hunt drive, etc). In cattle there are more important things like calving weight, yearling weight and height, rib eye measurements, marbling, etc (I have been out of it for awhile so I may be off on some of what was put into the EPD's in Angus cattle). A cow needs to produce a good marketable calf each year that will bring an excellent price. Bulls need to be very fertile with excellent EPD's depending on the needs of the producer (whether commercial or purebred). They, overall, are bred for a single purpose with some differences. I know at one point they were doing some research on how temperament affects meat quality and I don't know if anything ever came of that (that is a bit off topic)

The GSD, at least, was bred to be a utilitarian working dog with many purposes. It doesn't lend itself as well to computer models and science. 

In dogs the show ring has in many ways gotten away from the original purpose. It was supposed to evaluate the form that had a function in dogs that still worked and to maintain breed type. It also compared each animal to the standard for that breed and the best specimens were awarded the higher placements. Yes, testicles are checked, but not like in cattle. No, sperm count is not evaluated. In the European ring the only health testing required are for hips/elbows. In the AKC ring nothing is required.


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> walking/trotting around a ring and feelling its nuts (i don't really know what they do exactly)


Dogs (males) have to have two normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum. The judge is making sure they are there


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Conformation showing also evaluates the traits which make a GSD look like a GSD. Ear set, tails, color, coat, etc. It also was created to evaluate movement whick was believed to correspond with ability to work. While that may not still hold, that was why they were started.


----------



## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't feel that a regular all-breed conformation show has any reliability. Judges don't know the breed standard, and choose the tallest or beefiest dog, even if it's against the breed standard. And in rare breeds, seem to pick the most extreme or "interesting" specimen. The only conformation shows that count are the specialties where an expert judge is chosen who is knowledgable about the breed. That is why I do not take stock in any of the AKC or UKC so-called Champions. 

Now in Europe, the dog is judged and critiqued and rated with a grade of Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair or Insufficient. It may vary between countries, but in Holland you have to get 4 CACs with 2 different judges, and the last CAC* after he is 27 months old to become a champion. CAC is like BOB and is only awarded to the exceptional animal worthy of becoming a champion, not to a dog that happened to beat x-number of competitors.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

x11 if you attend and SV type show you would know the height of the dog, whether both testicles are descended (if male), whether the dentition is correct, whether the dog is gun shy, and get a critique of the individual dog where the judge will critique the overall condition, movement, etc. You would also know that the dog can be in a ring under control around other dogs and not totally flip out while being touched and examined.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Times, purposes and expectations have changed over the years in the show ring. Some think it is better, some think it is worse. ......


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

thanks appreciatte the comments - i have looked at pics of german show champs and american show champs, they barely look like the same breed. asking if one would rate in the others venue i was told unlikely. both champs are suppossed to be representatives of the best of the breed, both judged by the same standard? - how does that work, how is that reliable, how is the regular owner supposed to make an accurate selection on the most basic criteria (nothing fancy)??

why is so mch focus put on phenotype when that is only one section of the written standard - sure that dog looks good, thats great but to be a champ why ignore the rest of the standard. my untrained mutt can walk around other dogs under gunfire and be approached by strangers without wigging out - hardly a test imo.

and yes that dog has two nuts hanging there - whats to say they actually work or that ear/eye is the perfect shape/colour, is the dog deaf/blind?? how would you know by visual inspection - you don't!!

maybe they could weed out and increase the value of the data by scientific testing all the regional champs and only showing the rest in a final to find out which dog is what. consumers/future owners i doubt would have an issue with that.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

x11 said:


> t
> maybe they could weed out and increase the value of the data by scientific testing all the regional champs and only showing the rest in a final to find out which dog is what. consumers/future owners i doubt would have an issue with that.


It's like the bitework test at the Sieger Shows. Consumers don't have a problem but guess who do....the breeders churning out 10+ litters a year! Then the judges allow things to be overlooked and the test to be watered down because no one will invite them to judge if they are actually strict.


----------



## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

x11 said:


> thanks appreciatte the comments - i have looked at pics of german show champs and american show champs, they barely look like the same breed. asking if one would rate in the others venue i was told unlikely.


I like what has been happening in the Belgian Shepherd community, worldwide. There has been a lot of back and forth between the US and Europe to standardize the breed in the last couple of decades. You definitely could take a BS to Europe and enter it in a show without a judge wondering what the heck you brought them.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Liesje said:


> It's like the bitework test at the Sieger Shows. Consumers don't have a problem but guess who do....the breeders churning out 10+ litters a year! Then the judges allow things to be overlooked and the test to be watered down because no one will invite them to judge if they are actually strict.




i have talked to several breeders of a variety of working breeds - seems they spend more time thinking up excuses for why their champs cant do what they were bred to do rather than actually training it - "well if my BC was "trained" to herd sheep then it would be good at it - absolutely not true, well bred stock dogs will herd at 12 weeks old having never seen a sheep prior to that, they are typically culled at 14 weeks cos that s enough time to see all they will ever be - harsh reality but true. not saying that approach should apply to other venues. and the goal is a whole litter will avoid a single cull but if thats what it takes to realise a standard then thats the way it always has been and should be imo - so why not the GSD they are like 1000 or more times the price of most other working breeds and the most variable in quality it seems from the forums here??


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

x11 said:


> and yes that dog has two nuts hanging there - whats to say they actually work or that ear/eye is the perfect shape/colour, is the dog deaf/blind?? how would you know by visual inspection - you don't!!
> 
> maybe they could weed out and increase the value of the data by scientific testing all the regional champs and only showing the rest in a final to find out which dog is what. consumers/future owners i doubt would have an issue with that.


What kind of scientific testing will tell you if the dog is deaf/blind? I'm pretty sure a visual inspection of a dog would let you know these things much quicker than a scientific test...

You're placing a lot of worth in the champion title...look up what it means to be a champion and like most of us you'll understand that it's not that impressive and many of us do not search out champion bred dogs to get puppies from. I noticed you also said GSDs are 1000 times more expensive than other working breeds...not sure where you can get a good health tested, work tested, puppy for about $10-15 but if you can please let me know where these dogs exist.

The most educated owners put more trust in the BREEDER than they do the JUDGES that evaluated the parents. We all know how the system works and there's not much you can do about it. So we look for a breeder that does everything they can to match what WE believe a GSD should be. Then you vote with your purchase decision.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

what scientific test for blindness/deafness - are you for real??? first thing my vet checked at 8 weeks, ok but as you say can be done by a visual....is it???

i can by a kelpie guaranteed by legal contract to work with the registry not the breeder for $500, a typical GSD starts around $1500 - $2000 there is no working guarantee at all - typical price for proven show dog lines is excess $2000.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

How did your vet check for that? What was so "scientific" about his method that differs from a regular person looking at your dog, talking to your dog, and realizing that its either blind/deaf?

500 x 1000 = 500000, you're comparing two completely different dogs. If you're looking for a dog to work cattle, you can easily find a GSD for $1000 to do it. If you want to take a risk you can find a GSD for 300 that is AKC registered that has a chance of being a herder. Today, GSDs are used for much more than herding. There is a much broader market, much bigger market, and a huge pet market. People want a dog that looks like their local police dog, Rin Tin Tin, or a dog from their childhood, this drives up the price because there is a lot more demand. It's the second most popular AKC registered breed, so of course it will cost more.

Again...if you're looking for a working dog, go to a breeder that specializes in that. A good breeder will pretty much guarantee that their dog can do the work they promise because that breeder is probably doing that work themselves with the breeding stock. The beauty of the GSD is that you can pretty much find the dog that suits your need. For someone looking into doing protection work or herding its probably not right to look at champion show dogs, and this happens with every single breed. So I'm not sure why you're so jaded about the GSD...every single breed out there has working lines and show lines. I just did a quick wikipedia search of a kelpie and the 3rd line on there says that show kelpies generally don't look like working ones and probably don't work the same either.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Judges in many venues no longer objectively, but rather subjectively based on what they LIKE rather then what the standard says should be. As simple as that!


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> How did your vet check for that? What was so "scientific" about his method that differs from a regular person looking at your dog, talking to your dog, and realizing that its either blind/deaf?
> 
> 500 x 1000 = 500000, you're comparing two completely different dogs. If you're looking for a dog to work cattle, *you can easily find a GSD for $1000 to do it.* If you want to take a risk you can find a GSD for 300 that is AKC registered that has a chance of being a herder. Today, GSDs are used for much more than herding. There is a much broader market, much bigger market, and a huge pet market. People want a dog that looks like their local police dog, Rin Tin Tin, or a dog from their childhood, this drives up the price because there is a lot more demand. It's the second most popular AKC registered breed, so of course it will cost more.
> 
> Again...if you're looking for a working dog, go to a breeder that specializes in that. A good breeder will pretty much guarantee that their dog can do the work they promise because that breeder is probably doing that work themselves with the breeding stock. The beauty of the GSD is that you can pretty much find the dog that suits your need. For someone looking into doing protection work or herding its probably not right to look at champion show dogs, and this happens with every single breed. So I'm not sure why you're so jaded about the GSD...every single breed out there has working lines and show lines. I just did a quick wikipedia search of a kelpie and the 3rd line on there says that show kelpies generally don't look like working ones and probably don't work the same either.


 
wow, not jaded at all, i am objective and think in objective terms, nothing more or less. in some company objectivityand proof is seen as threat, not my problem.

ok my vet shoved something in dogs ear and looked thru something into dogs eyes, also observed motion and physical responses, sure the show judge COULD do that, my question was DO they??

not in the breed long but i dispute the bit in bold, i think you would have a very difficult job finding a GSD that will work stock out of the box. if they could then simply put you would see more of them doing it - the kelpie is making inroads even into the continental herding market as is the BC. and yes a showline kelpie genrally is a different shape (shorter and thicker and always red) than the taller leaner mainly black and tan working line, many look like a black and tan mals in fact, the black and tans cannot be registered as kelpies yet they are the majority of working kelpies and have their own working registry independent of the AKC registry.

anyway not here to be disrespectful, i enjoy the variety of opinion.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The things you bring up about judges...its things that the breeders should be worrying about. No breeder out there is going to be breeding blind/deaf dogs (I hope) because the customer would never purchase that dog. I would never touch a puppy that comes from parents that have clear issues.

You can find a GSD to do it. I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable herding people on here can chime in on that. I took my dog for a herding instinct test and he worked stock just fine. He wasn't trained in where to bring it/what to do with it, but he had no issue moving sheep and concentrating on the sheep. This was the first time he saw any type of cattle and he went in there just fine.

I see you have dealings with cattle so I don't want to put my foot in my mouth but I'm not sure if you quite understand the instincts behind herding. You really don't train the dog to do it...its more like training the dog to use them in the human's favor. The thing with the GSD is that for almost 100 years it hasn't been bred to be a herding dog. It's been bred for police/protection/military work. So yes, many of them have lost those instincts, but someone like Cliff can tell you there are still lines out there that will herd without any type of training, and from what I've seen many many lines will do it, maybe not as naturally as a BC, but its done.

I know you're not being disrespectful, I hope I'm not coming off that way either. But your "objectivity" is based on YOUR experience and lack of knowledge of not just the breed but the different rings that it participates in. You will find people here that hate the AKC breed ring, hate the SV system, and hate the fact that working dogs get bred without others approving of their structure.

I don't want to start a debate on this fact but there are plenty of working dogs that don't have the best conformation. And there are plenty of show line dogs that have better conformation for work than working dogs. You will see that these opinions vary vastly based on the experience of the people and their vision of what the breed should be. That written standard can be interpreted in so many different ways...


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

cheers man, i realise that dog conversations can get emotion based real quick. your right, no customer would purchase a blind/deaf/HD/MD......etc puppy. unfortunately most customers are neither breed experts or vets, a lot of business is done on faith and if you look at many threads on this site there is constant and seemingly wide-spread breach of that faith and the heart-ache and agony it brings so many people who just wanted a dog.

these breeders need to be more accountable in my opinion and science can assist that if the community was "seriosly serious".

all just my opinion


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

AKC champion










His champion daughter










Her sisters



















That is all of the photos that I have on the computer, but I have trained and titled 12+ dogs from my program in herding.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

thats great, not really the point of the thread but nice to see yr dogs doing well.

when you say AKC champion do you mean your dogs beat BC's in an open championship trial???

my friend has a champion herding Briard, another a mal - neither would be fed by any of the farmers i know - just sayin.

when i talk stock dog personally i don't mean three sheep manouvered in a known circuit under command, altho thats great and high skill no doubt.

i don't think the working kelpie and BC breeders will be losing market share anytime soon as their breeds get displaced from the big runs to make way for the GSD, could be wrong tho.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah...but breeders can't just breed for that tiny percent of people that are going to be herding sheep. Andaka meant an AKC champion in the breed ring.

There is no comparing BC herding to GSDs...in the same way no one would ever bring a BC onto a Schutzhund field and expect it to compete with a GSD. I don't get why you keep insisting on comparing different breeds and different uses of that dog.

It's great that for you its not important, and that you don't see a GSD herding in the same way that a BC would, but no one cares about the market share that those working herders hold. Its an extremely small proportion of dogs sold. Most dogs are pets. Most BCs are worked in agility if they are worked in anything at all.

You're basing your evaluation of a dog on what YOU want out of a dog, not out of what the majority wants out of a dog. The majority of GSD working people want a great worker for Schutzhund, not for herding, but an even larger majority want just regular pets.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

true my questions reflect my own biases, past experience and general confusions. i ask in a way that prolly only makes sense to me alone. i am not speaking on behalf of the general dog owner population.

regardless of breed, venue, purpose...etc good basic breeding of healthy dogs is rather independent of those things.

comparing best practice from what some breeders are doing whether it be GSD, or pomeranian or .... surely can bring no harm to breeding dogs in general. the basics are irrelevant to purpose.

the problems that i see with my personal blinkers seem to infect all or many breeds tho to a certain extent. which is the point of the thread title - what reliable information from conf. showing.

i think it is not me or not just me that is bringing in irrelevant or loosely relavant apsects to the conversation.

so i am confused now of what Andaka meant, her dogs were champions at herding or champions at something else and do herding??

why can't some breeders just breed for that tiny percent of the customer base - i would argue they are in fact the breeders that are propping the breed/s up, in the case of the GSD are fighting the battle between the GSD being considered an actual working dog as originally intended or not. how many GSD get purchased by the german police these days??? what are they buying? why?

now that you mention the BC, the breeders i know have a market for their wash outs by selling to the agility/pet crowd, saves them the cost of a bullet.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

To answer your question...shows were developed after the dog became a pet. And the look of the pet mattered more than its working ability. 100 years ago most dogs were working dogs. There was a very small concept of pets. Then, machines replaced dogs, and dogs became pets. Mostly the upper class owned dogs, and they had a lot of free time so they started showing off their dogs. Different breeds started getting judged against each other and so the dog show was created.

Today...99% of dogs are pets. So shows are still popular and are the "easiest" form of dog sport. You breed a dog, you make sure it is as close to standard as possible, and you compare it to others like it. It's all based off of human wants/needs not really a dog competition.

You can look up 100 threads on this subject on this forum. GSD is a working dog...should stay working...should have working titles...ect ect. Well we can sit here and argue against dog shows and all that all we want, but in the end it won't change. Like you mentioned earlier, show lines are more expensive, why? Because the general public sees CHAMPION and pays a lot of money for a puppy so they can go down the street and tell their neighbors their dog comes from a champion. And many times those dogs do have better conformation than their working counter parts.

The truth is, you've made an argument against yourself. You can't tell a dog's working ability by scientific methods. You can only do that by watching it work and comparing it to other dogs you've seen work. So although a majority of show line breeders don't work their dogs, there are many that do, and it comes down to who you want to support. Don't worry so much about changing the system...we've all gone down that line before, just support the breeders you believe are working towards a better breed/dog.


----------



## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

> so i am confused now of what Andaka meant, her dogs were champions at herding or champions at something else and do herding??


My dogs are conformation champions that also do herding.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

Andaka said:


> My dogs are conformation champions that also do herding.


 
gotcha, i imagine that would be a whole lotta fun for yr dogs, so nice to see the pics.

to be honest i tested my boy at 3mo, did not go well at all, lets just say he did not lack drive in the direction of the sheep. i am allowed back for another test some time....with a muzzle on.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> *The truth is, you've made an argument against yourself. *
> 
> *You can't tell a dog's working ability by scientific methods.*
> 
> ...


 
anyhoo


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm really lost on the direction of this thread. I have done some conformation with a GSD in AKC, UKC, and SV so I feel like I can share my experiences but I'm not sure what the OP is getting at or what the question is?


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

at this point i am confused to, i think i mean this;

so a dog is considered when it is granted champion of the breed to be an example of what all other breeders should be striving to attain in their programs, the title is matched to the standard, the standard says things about looks and also says things about temprement. with the proliferation of genetic diseases apparent in the breed and the abject high failure rate when selecting these dogs for their traditional roles, i question the relaibility of the data and the tool itself (show ring). in fact i question more than reliability, i question the validity of the tool, the entire test and the data. 

if you wanna shed some light then go ahead.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well to me conformation titles only tell me about the dog's conformation (and I do frame that in the context of what venue the dog was competing in - AKC, UKC, or SV). I would not make assumptions about specific aspects of the dog's health and/or temperament based on the conformation title. But yes there *are* people who believe the conformation title *is* what determines whether the dog is breed-able or not, but generally these are show breeders and exhibitors so that's all they care about. I care about the total dog, so I show my dogs in multiple venues of conformation AND I train and title them in things like Schutzhund, SDA, flyball, agility, dock diving, lure coursing, obedience AND I do health tests like OFA or a-stamp.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol...I never said I wasn't jaded...but more about the system rather than the breed. So I don't support the system, I have a working GSD although I belong to a very very highly concentrated AKC Conformation club.

The thing is...genetic diseases aren't that prolific. There is actually a very small percentage of genetic disease happening. In any population you expect such things to happen.

As to the standard...each person interprets it differently. American AKC judges have gone one way, German Show judges have gone another way, and the working people in a different way. I guess we should question it, and its nice to see more and more people purchasing working line dogs these days. I think what you said about genetically passing on working traits is definitely true...but it will still be hard to pinpoint what single gene is the "working drive" gene or the "herding" gene and to what level. I mean, I know we know a lot about genetics, but I don't think its that exact. Although its at the base of what breeders do...they test their dogs for work, and they choose to breed the best ones, hopefully passing on those genes. But the only way to test for those genes is trialing/training (as of now).


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

there is always hope, forget the breed here;

*Valuable behavioural phenotypes in Australian farm dogs
Apr 2012
The Project​*In collaboration with the Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation (RIRDC), Meat
and Livestock Australia (MLA) and the Working Kelpie Council of Australia (WKCA), this project
will, for the first time, measure and record both behavioural and health attributes in farm dogs. It
will allow us to promote the behavioural traits that distinguish the best working dogs on Aussie
farms
We aim to begin by establishing how much work dogs are doing for Australian sheep and beef
producers. Then we will establish exactly what behavioural traits producers describe as desirable
and undesirable in farm dogs. *The next challenge will be to develop valid measures of these*
*descriptors.*
In addition, we will follow numerous litters of pups through to maturity to see how stable these
traits are over time. *We will also examine pedigrees to calculate the heritability of these traits and*
*then use modern genetic mapping to identify DNA sequences associated with the most important*
*traits.*
A full-time postgraduate scholarship is available for a suitably qualified candidate with a good
honours degree in veterinary science or animal science to undertake this research leading to a
PhD in canine behavioural genetics under the guidance of Prof Claire Wade and Paul McGreevy at
the University of Sydney’s Faculty of Veterinary Science. The project will involve working with
sheep and beef producers and significant amounts of travel to study dogs on farms. We will be
advertising for this post very shortly.​*The Research Team​*Claire Wade is Professor of Animal Genetics and Computational Biology. She is developing a
programme in medical and behavioural genetics with particular focus on the horse and the dog. In
recent years her canine focus has included playing key roles in the analysis leading to the Canine
Genome Sequence (Nature, December 2005), the development of three canine gene mapping
arrays (Two for Affymetrix and one for Illumina), and the mapping of several genes for canine
diseases leading thus far to three commercially available genetic tests for genetic diseases
(Parathyroid tumours in Keeshonden, Rod-cone dystrophy in the Wire-haired dachshund, and
Degenerative myelopathy in many breeds). She has current projects exploring the genetics of
separation-related distress disorder, aggression, deafness, congenital birth defects, and
pigmentation in the dog.
Professor Paul McGreevy is one of only three veterinarians recognised worldwide by the RCVS as
Specialists in Veterinary Behavioural Medicine. He has written 6 books, 30 chapters and over 120
articles in peer-reviewed journals. His team has recently achieved significant progress in
identifying early behavioural (and morphological) traits associated with success in puppies
undergoing training for guide work. He is on the expert panel of the UK’s Dog Breeding Advisory​Council.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The view of the breed is often reflected in the knowledge and experience of the viewer.....keep that in mind OP.


----------

