# Working Line GSD - puppy prices US/Import



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

Hi,
I'm sure this question has been asked here before but I do have to ask.
Is 2.5k for a puppy from good parents is normal price?
What is the price range? Is it normal that importing dog from Europe (well known kennels) with shipping cost the same as US/Canadian puppy? Which way would you go?

Would you get dog from reputable breeder that develops his own lines for years (with success) or would you get it from someone from US who imported his breeding dogs and enjoys from success for last 5-3 years? I'm from Europe and not familiar with NA prices and local lines.Would appreciate your advice .

I work for a living so I wouldn't want to overpay for "made up" puppy quality on one hand but would definitely pay for real one (temperament and health)


Thx.
D


----------



## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Depends on the lines that you are looking for and what true experience you are looking for.


----------



## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Hi, dimasc. Welcome to the forum. Where in Europe are you located? In U.S. I would say that $2,500 would be on the high side for a working line GSD, but not outrageous. I think $1500-2,000 would be more reasonable.

I'm not sure I understand your other question. Are you thinking about importing a puppy from the U.S.? Just wondering why some people from U.S. would import from Europe?

Most of the people on this forum are based in the U.S., and I think the general consensus is that unless you are experienced and have a specific type of puppy in mind it makes the most sense to buy from a domestic breeder - ideally within driving distance of where you live so you can meet the breeder, the puppies and at least one of the parents. Having said that people sometimes do buy imports, and breeders frequently import dogs from Europe to diversify their breeding stock. But it does help to have an ongoing relationship with the breeder you import from. 

Finally, I think imports tend to go one way - from Europe to the U.S. After all, the ancestors of almost all working line GSD's come from Europe - predominately East and West Germany and Czechoslovakia. Not sure why you would want to import a dog from the U.S., particularly if you're not familiar with NA lines. But maybe I have misunderstood your question.


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

I live in Canada(originally from Europe) and want to get a dog for myself. I've contacted both US breeders(couple of top 10 kennels) , German and Czech breeders + local Canadian kennels.
Both German and Czech very reputable breeders and the price of puppy is ~1500.
So european breeder + shipping is actually the same price as local breeder. And all european dogs from these breeders will get full registration (no headaches). In Canada local dealers want 1.5k for puppies without breeding rights and parents are mostly okay (not the same level as Czech or German dogs ). 
I'm trying to understand local market and to make a best choice for myself...
Originally I wanted local dog but now I'm not so sure...


----------



## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Ok, thanks. Also, as Smithie points out, it would help if we knew what you wanted to do with your dog. Are you just looking for a healthy puppy with a solid temperament? Do you want to do obedience? Schutzhund? SAR? Do you want (and can you handle) a "serious" dog?

Ultimately, there is no such thing a "best" puppy, only a puppy that is "best" for you and your goals.

Finally, I wouldn't be turned off by a breeder that is unwilling to give you breeding rights. What that tells me is that they genuinely care about the future of the breed and don't want less than ideal dogs bred. I know of at least one breeder in Canada who requires you to put a working title on your dog if you want to breed it.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

As far as the open for breeding papers....in Europe, it is standard for dogs to be titled, health tested and approved for breeding PRIOR to being used for breeding....in fact, in Germany, it is required - no titles etc, no pink (open) papers.....here in US and Canada there are NO requirements - people can use a 12 month old male to sire a litter from a 15 month old female - with no hip/elbow certs, titles etc....and get full AKC papers on the resulting pups......so when a breeder HERE sells on limited/non breeding papers, it is saying you must prove the animal is worthy/healthy for breeding quality BEFORE papers are released for breeding....

When importing to Canada from US - the breeder HAS to give you open papers so that the dog is registerable with the Canadian KC - but a US breeder may still give you a contract where you agree to perform/obtain all clearances before breeding...it is a matter of your personal integrity to honor that....as stated above, breeders who do this usually are concerned with their own integrity as a breeder and protecting their pups from ending up as breeding machines used to make someone money who does not care enough to build up a reputation by doing things 'right'.

As far as price on WL pups - $1500 - 2000 is currently the range for pups from reputable breeders using titled stock....but alot of BYB people jump on the bandwagon and ask the same price because they see what people are charging.

Lee


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Five years ago, our breeder sold females for $1250 and males $1500 in California, hope this helps. Even with inflation, $2500 sounds a bit high.


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

John C. said:


> Ok, thanks. Also, as Smithie points out, it would help if we knew what you wanted to do with your dog. Are you just looking for a healthy puppy with a solid temperament? Do you want to do obedience? Schutzhund? SAR? Do you want (and can you handle) a "serious" dog?
> 
> Ultimately, there is no such thing a "best" puppy, only a puppy that is "best" for you and your goals.
> 
> Finally, I wouldn't be turned off by a breeder that is unwilling to give you breeding rights. What that tells me is that they genuinely care about the future of the breed and don't want less than ideal dogs bred. I know of at least one breeder in Canada who requires you to put a working title on your dog if you want to breed it.


I will be honest, please don't take it in the wrong way. I believe that here in NA many breeders hide the greed behind the "Caring for the future of breed". 
If the animal is not intended for breeding - Spay it. By denying the papers they are actually destroying the breed. Dog without papers is an an animal without history.The only thing you are doing is actively destroying competition with similar lines to yours. 

If the breeder actually developed his own lines for many generations- I can understand him, but if he imported dogs at least they should be honest and admit it. It takes years to be real breeder and more than one or two generations.Not jut stupid luck and someone's work .I know it from experience....

What do you mean by serious dog? All dogs this size are serious even golden retriever.... 

I want working line german shepherd for it's temperament(controllable and trainable dog). Good german shepherd has good nerves and high threshold and that's the only animal I will have in my house. 

The dog is intended for sports(Schutzhund) and as family dog. It will be part of my family and will live with with kids.


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

wolfstraum said:


> As far as the open for breeding papers....in Europe, it is standard for dogs to be titled, health tested and approved for breeding PRIOR to being used for breeding....in fact, in Germany, it is required - no titles etc, no pink (open) papers.....here in US and Canada there are NO requirements - people can use a 12 month old male to sire a litter from a 15 month old female - with no hip/elbow certs, titles etc....and get full AKC papers on the resulting pups......so when a breeder HERE sells on limited/non breeding papers, it is saying you must prove the animal is worthy/healthy for breeding quality BEFORE papers are released for breeding....
> 
> When importing to Canada from US - the breeder HAS to give you open papers so that the dog is registerable with the Canadian KC - but a US breeder may still give you a contract where you agree to perform/obtain all clearances before breeding...it is a matter of your personal integrity to honor that....as stated above, breeders who do this usually are concerned with their own integrity as a breeder and protecting their pups from ending up as breeding machines used to make someone money who does not care enough to build up a reputation by doing things 'right'.
> 
> ...


 Thank you very much for this information! I didn't know that only full registration will be registerable in Canada.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dimasc said:


> I will be honest, please don't take it in the wrong way. I believe that here in NA many breeders hide the greed behind the "Caring for the future of breed".
> If the animal is not intended for breeding - Spay it. By denying the papers they are actually destroying the breed. Dog without papers is an an animal without history.The only thing you are doing is actively destroying competition with similar lines to yours.
> 
> If the breeder actually developed his own lines for many generations- I can understand him, but if he imported dogs at least they should be honest and admit it. It takes years to be real breeder and more than one or two generations.Not jut stupid luck and someone's work .I know it from experience....
> ...


 
I am in Canada as well. Due to a serious lack of ethical breeding in Canada, I opted to look to the US. I was looking for a companion dog with the potential to be a working dog and found a few breeders that seemed promising in the 1500-1800 range, so yes 2500 seems high.
There are a few breeders in Canada, Ontario region. I don't know where you are but be very cautious about the western half of the country.

Carmen/Carmspack is a forum member from Ontario. She can point you to some ethical breeders.


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> I am in Canada as well. Due to a serious lack of ethical breeding in Canada, I opted to look to the US. I was looking for a companion dog with the potential to be a working dog and found a few breeders that seemed promising in the 1500-1800 range, so yes 2500 seems high.
> There are a few breeders in Canada, Ontario region. I don't know where you are but be very cautious about the western half of the country.
> 
> Carmen/Carmspack is a forum member from Ontario. She can point you to some ethical breeders.


Thank you for the information!


----------



## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

dimasc, I'm not a breeder, so no need to worry about insulting me with your skepticism about the motives of most breeders - but I am still going to respectfully disagree with you. There are certainly some breeders for whom the sale of dogs is their primary business, and they are certainly motivated by profit, sometimes to the detriment of the breed. But there are also a lot of small breeders who truthfully make very little money in return for the time and effort they take to put a litter on the ground and do this because they love the breed and want to improve (or at least preserve) the working quality of the GSD. In fact, these breeders can sometimes be a little off-putting and can be very picky about who they sell their dogs to. But this is surely a pretty good indication that they're not just in it for the money. There aren't a lot of businesses that interview and then turn away customers because they don't think that person is a good fit for their products.

To answer your question about what is a "serious" dog - as I use that term most golden retrievers are not "serious" dogs. The best, somewhat oversimplified explanation I can give you is that a serious dog is one who has the courage and the temperament to stand up to a serious threat, even when he has the chance to flee, and to on command bite (and release) a bad guy or an intruder.

I don't know how much experience you have with Schutzhund, but if you are relatively new to the sport it would be a mistake to believe that every dog who has a Schutzhund title is by definition a "serious" dog. Many are not. For a lot of dogs biting the sleeve is a game. They are in prey drive and their biting of the sleeve is really just an extension you playing tug games with them.


----------



## Waldi (Jun 14, 2013)

John C. said:


> dimasc, I'm not a breeder, so no need to worry about insulting me with your skepticism about the motives of most breeders - but I am still going to respectfully disagree with you. There are certainly some breeders for whom the sale of dogs is their primary business, and they are certainly motivated by profit, sometimes to the detriment of the breed. But there are also a lot of small breeders who truthfully make very little money in return for the time and effort they take to put a litter on the ground and do this because they love the breed and want to improve (or at least preserve) the working quality of the GSD. In fact, these breeders can sometimes be a little off-putting and can be very picky about who they sell their dogs to. But this is surely a pretty good indication that they're not just in it for the money. There aren't a lot of businesses that interview and then turn away customers because they don't think that person is a good fit for their products.
> 
> To answer your question about what is a "serious" dog - as I use that term most golden retrievers are not "serious" dogs. The best, somewhat oversimplified explanation I can give you is that a serious dog is one who has the courage and the temperament to stand up to a serious threat, even when he has the chance to flee, and to on command bite (and release) a bad guy or an intruder.
> 
> I don't know how much experience you have with Schutzhund, but if you are relatively new to the sport it would be a mistake to believe that every dog who has a Schutzhund title is by definition a "serious" dog. Many are not. For a lot of dogs biting the sleeve is a game. They are in prey drive and their biting of the sleeve is really just an extension you playing tug games with them.


I totally support this view.
about 20 year ago got GS from reputable bigger breeder with full CK registration (I am located in Canada) with warranty. Puppy was perfect and growing nicely until about 8 1/5 month, when we discovered after extensive investigation that it had genetic liver disorder with no cure so we had to put it down. It was extremely hard and painful and kept me from getting new puppy for long time. We had warranty and breeder told us that we can get new puppy for free anytime. Afterwards we adopted 2 yo golden (reducing risk of loosing puppy) and we have loved that. Three years ago we have decided to get GS puppy again, but could decided not to go and exercise out "warranty" but rather find small local breeder what will present us with parents and environment. We found one who had puppies and we loved parents (working line dogs) attitude and behavior. She offered female for $500 without registration and warranty or $750 for the same one with registration and warranty. We wanted dog not papers, as paper does not make better dog so we took it unregistered female. She has been with us for almost three years and turn out to be most wonderful (not-biased opinion LOL)dog with strong working ethics. We picked our breeder from kijiji but went and visited her operation to see love and devotion to her GS flock. Ask bunch of questions, and I would go there again to get another puppy based on our experience with parents and grandparent of our puppy. So my advise is do not limit yourself to "big" name breeder, but search and do diligence and find the right dog (not paper dog).


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

Waldi said:


> I totally support this view.
> about 20 year ago got GS from reputable bigger breeder with full CK registration (I am located in Canada) with warranty. Puppy was perfect and growing nicely until about 8 1/5 month, when we discovered after extensive investigation that it had genetic liver disorder with no cure so we had to put it down. It was extremely hard and painful and kept me from getting new puppy for long time. We had warranty and breeder told us that we can get new puppy for free anytime. Afterwards we adopted 2 yo golden (reducing risk of loosing puppy) and we have loved that. Three years ago we have decided to get GS puppy again, but could decided not to go and exercise out "warranty" but rather find small local breeder what will present us with parents and environment. We found one who had puppies and we loved parents (working line dogs) attitude and behavior. She offered female for $500 without registration and warranty or $750 for the same one with registration and warranty. We wanted dog not papers, as paper does not make better dog so we took it unregistered female. She has been with us for almost three years and turn out to be most wonderful (not-biased opinion LOL)dog with strong working ethics. We picked our breeder from kijiji but went and visited her operation to see love and devotion to her GS flock. Ask bunch of questions, and I would go there again to get another puppy based on our experience with parents and grandparent of our puppy. So my advise is do not limit yourself to "big" name breeder, but search and do diligence and find the right dog (not paper dog).


It's not about "big name" it's about dog's health and temperament. With top of the line breeder chances of getting sick or crazy dog are much lower. I would never buy from kijiji. I've checked the forums and groups for weeks before contacting the people those dogs I liked. I don't think you can determin temperament of the dog by visiting the kennel. Some dogs are very confident at home and you might end up with weak nerved crazy dog. I'm responsable adult with family and small kids. I will never put my family in jeopardy like that.
In addition to that I want to get real german shepherd and for me it's mostly character.


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

John C. said:


> dimasc, I'm not a breeder, so no need to worry about insulting me with your skepticism about the motives of most breeders - but I am still going to respectfully disagree with you. There are certainly some breeders for whom the sale of dogs is their primary business, and they are certainly motivated by profit, sometimes to the detriment of the breed. But there are also a lot of small breeders who truthfully make very little money in return for the time and effort they take to put a litter on the ground and do this because they love the breed and want to improve (or at least preserve) the working quality of the GSD. In fact, these breeders can sometimes be a little off-putting and can be very picky about who they sell their dogs to. But this is surely a pretty good indication that they're not just in it for the money. There aren't a lot of businesses that interview and then turn away customers because they don't think that person is a good fit for their products.
> 
> To answer your question about what is a "serious" dog - as I use that term most golden retrievers are not "serious" dogs. The best, somewhat oversimplified explanation I can give you is that a serious dog is one who has the courage and the temperament to stand up to a serious threat, even when he has the chance to flee, and to on command bite (and release) a bad guy or an intruder.
> 
> I don't know how much experience you have with Schutzhund, but if you are relatively new to the sport it would be a mistake to believe that every dog who has a Schutzhund title is by definition a "serious" dog. Many are not. For a lot of dogs biting the sleeve is a game. They are in prey drive and their biting of the sleeve is really just an extension you playing tug games with them.


I know that some lines of Golden retrievers are very unbalanced and sometimes attack the owners . Something similar to that happened with Cocker spaniels.
It looks like you are talking about dogs that can inflict serious damage...

Even Coker Spaniel can do a lot of damage to small child....


+I agree with you, for dogs sleeve is just a game and that's a very good thing...
I would feel uncomfortable keeping attack dog in the same house with my kids.


----------



## dimasc (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks guys!


----------

