# No hugging allowed!!??



## susan.msp (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a male GSD, Finn. Great dog, has been easy to train from a very early age, he knows all his obedience and a few silly tricks. Recently he has started a behavior that is just puzzling to me and my husband.

Our daughter came to visit us a few days ago and when she prepared to leave she hugged me goodbye. Finn flew thru the air and bodyslammed her! It was so unexpected and such a shock neither of us reprimanded him, we were just like 'what was that??'. She came again the day before yesterday and as she hugged her Dad goodbye, Finn did it again. She said "oh I forgot I'm not allowed to hug anyone anymore". I immediately got up and hugged my 16 year old son and Finn bodyslammed him. This isn't jumping, he throws himself! last night my husband and I intentionally hugged each other watching him, when he began his rush I said Finn NO! He stopped, whined and immediately rushed over to his mother and began to bully her. 

Any thoughts on where this is coming from and the right correction?? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


----------



## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

I wouldn't allow this behaviour. Continue to verbally correct him. Look into NILF (Nothing in life is free). How old is he and is he fixed?


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What you are seeing is resource guarding - basically, Finn feels that he OWNS you and your husband, that you are a resource, like food, a toy, a favorite place to sleep, and is guarding your as his own. This happens because of a lack of rank structure in the house - you are not pack leaders, but 'stuff' to him. 

This will only get worse, and he needs to know without any shadow of a doubt, that he does not make decisions as to what is his and what is not, because this is your house, he is YOUR dog, and YOU control all the resources, all the time. 

A dog like this needs to loose certain privileges, but can regain them when he earns them back and shows in his behaviour that he understands his position in the pack. 

Up your leadership. He needs to learn respect. Read up on Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF as mentioned), and implement it from get go. Have everyone in the family be on board and be consistent. It won't work if this is used only sometimes, it has to be all the time. 

Here is a recent "happy ending" thread that can show what NILIF can do for you and your dog. 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/191426-thank-you-board-teaching-me.html

You can do a search on the board and get lots and lots of input. 

What is Finn's normal day like? Where does he sleep, what are your behavioural expectations from him? How does he react if you scold him, tell him to stop doing something? How does he act with your other dogs? What is feeding time at your house like? A bit of insight into his everyday life can help us see where you can tweak things to make him see the error of his ways.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What Lucia said. Why not teach him to sit when you hug someone? That's an easy enough thing to do and it's an action opposite what he wants to do. He can't come forward if he's trying to sit at the same time.


----------



## susan.msp (Apr 30, 2012)

Finn's normal day...well we get up in the morning and while I have coffee on the porch I throw a ball for all the dogs. Get dressed and we go walking in the pasture to count heads, see if there are any new calves, look at the creek, etc. During this time Finn and the others are running here there and yon. We come in and have breakfast and usually the dogs are pretty settled at this point. They catnap while I work in the house.

Then back outside, usually to the greenhouse or the garden, feed the chickens, just piddling here and there. If it's warm out i throw toys in the pond as the dogs love to swim and fetch. Employee's come and go from the barns and the dogs enjoy greeting them. 

Husband comes home and then he takes his turns throwing balls, we usually go back into the pasture to wander around ( that's our haven )

Finn gets along great with the other dogs, but he does think everything belongs to him. At feeding time, he wants all the food bowls. I just say Finn shut up and behave yourself and the other dogs proceed to eat, even out of his bowl. 

He definitely does try to get his own way but I just counter it with no reward or ignoring him. When I taught him to speak, he wouldn't shut up. If he saw anyone eating anything he would sit and bark at them. We just ignored him and he eventually stopped. I would hear him in the kitchen barking, walk in and he would be sitting looking at the counter. He clearly wanted you to come give him something. Just ignored him, he stopped. 

My expectation from him and the other dogs? As far as i'm concerned, they are here to entertain me. I love watching them play, watching them race thru the pasture, I love playing ball and water toys. I fully expect them to have manners, I won't be jumped on or knocked about. If we have to go to the vet, they are expected to behave well on leash. They can greet our employee's but they can't jump. Nothing irritates me worse than an ill behaved dog. I enjoy teaching them and seeing responses. 

I don't work outside the home, our dairy farm, the dogs and my family are my life. It's very fullfilling. 

Finn sleeps on the floor next to my bed with the other dogs. No dog is ever allowed on any furniture. 

He's a smart one and when he tries to be the boss, i can usually counter it just by ignoring him. When he decided during fetch that he wasn't going to bring it back but wanted me to chase him, i ignored him. He brought the ball right to my feet. He wanted me to interact with him but on his terms, I refused so he bended to mine. 
He did listen when I told him NO on the bodyslamming, but took his frustration out on his mother. 

All of my dogs are related, and none of them are super loving. They don't come to you for affection often, aren't lickers etc. They don't want to cuddle in your lap but happily accept my sons (14 and 16) rolling in the floor and loving on them. They did when they were puppies, loved to sit in your lap but as they grew older every one of them just stopped. They do lay at mine and my husbands feet in the evenings while watching tv, or outside if they aren't interested in playing. Whatever i'm doing, they are laying fairly close watching. Finn and his mother often come to me when we are outside and "check in". They just come, poke me with thier nose and go back to whatever they were doing. They will do this about every 15 min or so. I never have to call them to come back inside, when I head to the house they pour out of the woodwork to join me, so I know they are close and watching.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just a note....Jax body slams me when she's saying Hello and is excited. Is he trying to get in between you or is he just wanted to be included and demanding attention that way(still a form of resource guarding IMO)


----------



## susan.msp (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't think it's a greeting, he wants to bully his way in there for attention or to separate the huggers. And what's funny, it's the only way he has done this type of resource guarding. He doesn't squabble with the other dogs on where he lays at night, or during tv time, or when I am paying attention to another dog. He doesn't do it with any other family interaction, just hugging and out of the blue! He doesn't bully the other dogs, even at feeding time when he wants all the bowls he just barks a few times, he doesn't put any real effort into claiming ownership.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

susan.msp said:


> He doesn't bully the other dogs, even at feeding time when he wants all the bowls he just barks a few times, he doesn't put any real effort into claiming ownership.


 That sounds like bullying, the milder version I would say. From what I read I think his ego needs to get lowered. 
If a dog "doesn't allow" hugging from his owners, you can do a few things.
1.Hug a lot more for training purposes since you need to focus not only on your partner but on Finn's good behavior. Throw treats away from you while you are doing it to change the association with hugging.
2. Implement the NILIFF practices to lower his status.
3. Practice his stays where ever you are until he can do it when you are hugging each other.
4. Another way is to tie him and hug out of his reach and throw treats when he is calm. But this is a judgement call since I don't know him and he can go berserk, which means that he cannot handle this.

No dog should be in a position where he has the chance to "not allow ..... (fill in the blanks)."


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Mind Games would be a good thing for you to do with this particular dog, and in fact most dogs could benefit from it.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Resource guarding for sure. Next time give him a down and stay command, reward him and then do the hug. At first you can have someone hold him to be sure he keeps the stay and have them reward him during the hug IF he keeps the down stay. If you consistently do that he will eventually put himself into a down when he sees you hugging people. 

Rafi doesn't like me hugging people either but he is very gentle and will simply fuss a bit.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

From your description of a typical day, I'd say you have a good handle on things, and are a natural leader and have good understanding of dog dynamics. I think (and can never tell for sure unless we are there to observe the interactions) that Finn is really trying to push others around, but does not yet dare to do so as he is still quite young. He is testing the waters to see what he can get away with. Great that he listens so well, kudos to you and your husband.

I think the suggestion given by others to teach him a replacement behaviour to the resource guarding is spot on! Have him sit and wait for his food - enforces your pack leader status, and takes away the option to try and get another dog's food, have him sit when you hug, etc, is will help a lot! He may also get to the point where as soon as he sees two people's hugging, he will automatically sit and wait for praise or a treat. 

Edited to add: I see BowWowMeow gave the same advice - thanks!


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

In general it means that we need to hug each other more so it is a normal thing for puppies ("That's what these aliens do...") and nothing to get worked up about.


----------

