# Newbie would like to breed my black male



## thekauz (Dec 30, 2011)

I'm new to this so forgive if my questions are sophomoric ,

I have a 7 year old solid black male (95 lbs), he is registered and comes from a great bloodline has good OFA's etc. . Wonderful dog, smarter than me. I'd like to stud him out but have no idea where to begin. All I know is he is a GSD worth carrying on the bloodline.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Sofie and Miya's Mom (Dec 21, 2015)

What is it about your dog that is superior enough to have him pass on his blood line? I do not want to seem harsh, but there are a ton of gsd's waiting for good homes, that to add to the plenty of great lines would deem responsible? What type of titles does your dog have? What type of work do you do with him? Have you shown him in AKC events? Has he been hip, elbow, eye tested, to name a few tests? What is his lineage? How tall is he? According to you he is out of breed standard for weight of a gsd...males 66-88 pounds, 24-26 inches tall.... I do not want to sound negative, but just because you have a great dog, does not mean he should be bred. Breeding whether you own a bitch or a stud, needs to be done to better the breed. Most quality breeders already have a stud dog or they work with another quality breeder who has a stud dog that has been worked, or shown, has been properly x-rayed for hips and elbows, have great lines, and fits into the breed standard for correct conformation. Enjoy your dog, work him if you don't, and realize that there are too many great GSD's looking for a home, another litter is not needed, and leave the new litters up to the great breeders.


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## thekauz (Dec 30, 2011)

Oh my. That was a little harsh but you spoke your mind and I think I can understand. I appreciate frankness.

The whole reason I asked was to get some advice, perhaps not as harsh as yours but I think I get what your saying. I certainly don't want "excess" dogs suffering in want of a home, I have numerous rescues myself and understand. Its just that I have a great dog, perhaps not to your standards(or any standards), but a great dog. If he doesnt meet standards, which is the kind of advice I was looking for, remember I'm a newbie, then I would not breed him.

I guess the analogy I see would be that I drive a 7 years old Honda that's a great car gives good mileage and is reliable and you would rather that we all drive first class BMW's only sold by big, well known dealers that meets the standards of auto engineers. 

i understand, thank you for responding.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html


Consider this flowchart. 

(1) Who would want to use your male as a stud if they had invested work and money in proving their female was suitable for breeding and you have not proven these things with him.

(2) A 7 year old who has not been used in breeding may very well be sterile. You may want to have the vet collect and test a semen sample before you even worry about it.

Perhaps it is not important to you that your dog meets these requirements, but at the very very least you should make sure that you know the medical history behind your dog and do all the appropriate tests (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals has a suggested list - may also want to consider penn hip) -- unfortunately when information is not carefully tracked as it is in working and show dogs, you may not know the medical history of related dogs...same of those for any female you would consider.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Frankly, I thought she did pretty good! Generally speaking if you go to any breed specific Dog Forum asking questions about becoming a BYB will not be looked upon favorably.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

thekauz said:


> I'm new to this so forgive if my questions are sophomoric ,
> 
> I have a 7 year old solid black male (95 lbs), he is registered and comes from a great bloodline has good OFA's etc. . Wonderful dog, smarter than me. I'd like to stud him out but have no idea where to begin. All I know is he is a GSD worth carrying on the bloodline.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.


I understand you love your dog. I love mine too. He has a great pedigree worth carrying on as well. But there are hundreds of dogs out there with stellar bloodlines and are proven with titles or working venue. 

So ask yourself, why would a person with a stellar bitch choose my dog? That has good OFA's but is otherwise unproven. Choose my dog over a dog that has been proven in working or sport venues?

Because that is what you want, right? You want a bitch with a stellar pedigree to maintain and improve the breed?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jax08 said:


> I understand you love your dog. I love mine too. He has a great pedigree worth carrying on as well.* But there are hundreds of dogs out there with stellar bloodlines and are proven with titles or working venue. *
> 
> So ask yourself, why would a person with a stellar bitch choose my dog? That has good OFA's but is otherwise unproven. Choose my dog over a dog that has been proven in working or sport venues.
> 
> Because that is what you want, right? You want a bitch with a stellar pedigree to maintain and improve the breed?


With this, allowing just anyone to use your male is not responsible...breeders that do it right, are knowledgeable of pedigree matching and look for males with compatible lines. SO...if you do have someone that is willing to use your male, think hard about the reason they are breeding. And you should also know your males strengths and weaknesses to provide information to any breeder interested. This is usually done with training and then titles that prove the training. If you aren't working your dog anywhere, how can you learn that?
Is it to keep the breed going in the right direction? Or is it due to convenience? Or is it due to producing puppies for the pet market?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

thekauz said:


> I guess the analogy I see would be that I drive a 7 years old Honda that's a great car gives good mileage and is reliable and you would rather that we all drive first class BMW's only sold by big, well known dealers that meets the standards of auto engineers.


And the market is already glutted with both Hondas and BMW's that are being sent to the crusher because there are too many of both and not enough people that want to buy them. 

Part of the problem is that genetics, especially German Shepherd genetics, are extremely difficult to predict. Since the breed is designed to be watchful, alert, and aloof; and since there is a preponderance of genetic health issues in the gene pool, breeding a good dog to a good dog does not guarantee a litter of good healthy dogs. One really needs to understand the genetics of the grandparents and great-grandparents and aunts and cousins to stack the deck in favor of producing sound, healthy puppies. I personally know of more than 5 people that bred sound healthy dogs to sound healthy bitches and ended up with crippling hip dysplasia and nerve/aggression issues in the pups. Dogs are like ice bergs. If all you see is the dog and the bitch, you have no idea what's beneath the surface of the genes


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

From a potential puppy buyers point of view: I would not breed my Deja, although I think she is the best and most beautiful dog in the world. I would go back to her breeder who created these great dogs, to get a new pup. He knows what he is doing. I, on the other hand, would just add to the dog population. And, as the owner of a stud dog, you are just as responsible for his offspring as the owner of the litter. Would you be willing to take back one or two adolescent pups from your dog if their home didn't work out? That is one of the many reasons I will not breed my dogs. But I understand how tempting it is if someone asks you to use him as a stud.


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## thekauz (Dec 30, 2011)

*Thank you everyone*

Good solid advice from everyone. I certainly have some studying to do, thank you all for the advice and your time!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm glad that you will be studying this issue.

Here are some other points to consider.

Breeding Cautions

German shepherd Breeders, German shepherd Breeder

THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED *

THE FACTS:* It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully. 
*QUALITY:* SV registration is Not an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath! 
*COST:* German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability. *
SALES:* First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter. 
*JOY OF BIRTH:* If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelpling may be at 3 AM, or at the vet’s on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed. *
TIME:* Veteran German Shepherd breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight. 
*HUMANE RESPONSIBILLITIES:*It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs “with papers. “ The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? *Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it? *Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? *
CONCLUSIONS: Because of these facts, German Shepherd dog breeding is best left to the PROFESSIONAL BREEDER!*


*Moms
*


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Without a string of titles you are going to have trouble finding a reputable breeder with a female they are willing to breed with him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

LuvShepherds said:


> Without a string of titles you are going to have trouble finding a reputable breeder with a female they are willing to breed with him.


but finding a breeder that isn't responsible will be easy to find....


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Very well said MOM2GSDs


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I want to thank the OP for being so open to discouraging posts. This is unusual and very rewarding.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

middleofnowhere said:


> I want to thank the OP for being so open to discouraging posts. This is unusual and very rewarding.


I agree. The OP seems to be an intelligent, mindful person who wants what's best for their dog.


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## thekauz (Dec 30, 2011)

*Many many thanks to All!*

Again thank you everyone, not only for your frankness but for offering solid proven advice from folks who have made this their life's work. 

Our dog Jack was originally purchased from a very reputable breeder for my son who after 3 full Combat tours in 4 years needed a friend who gave unconditional love. He received that in the form of a solid black GSD. He lives with me while my son is at University.

But not to worry I wont let my enthusiasm for the dog and the breed cloud any decision(s) to do what is right for our dog and the breed.


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