# What are your opinions of prong collars?



## CAB (May 18, 2008)

I finally bought a prong collar today and can't wait to try it out once the rain stops. Who here uses them and what are your experiences with them?


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

Be prepared for a variety of responses. This topic is second only in controversy to the argument about the best food to feed...










I think a prong collar is a great tool when used properly and on a dog that really needs that much collar. 

I used one on my own GSD for about a year or so while he was learning to mind his manners on leash. We "graduated" to a plain harness or flat collar now---so a prong collar doesn't have to be a choice forever. 

Make sure the collar fits high on the neck.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree that they are sometimes a good tool, but shouldn't be used forever. I feel the same about e-collar. They need to be used properly, not dragging the dog around by it.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I think they are a great tool. But as with any other tool, their effectiveness comes down to the skill of the hands using the tool.

In terms of a training collar to allow for corrections, they are the best choice. Far better than the traditional choke collar. They allow the handler to really customize the correction level, and a prong can be used to give both softer and harsher corrections as needed. Something that is far more difficult to do with a choker. Less take up before the correction happens, as compared to a choker, translates to better corrections in terms of timing and now allowing the dog to anticipate the correction. And they are less prone to causing injury as compared to a choke or head halter.

At the same time, I feel too many people use prongs (and every other collar/head halter/harness on the market) as a crutch to control the dog, rather than actually *training* the dog. 

They are a useful tool for training, certainly. Likewise, using a temporary crutch to make things easier for the owner to do the training can often be a good idea. But no tool should be a long term means of control, and in the end it should be the training and relationship that influences the dog's behavior, not the collar he is wearing.

2 important things when using a prong.
First, as Tracy said, make sure it is fitted properly and sits high on the neck. I see far too many pinch collars fitted too loosely.

Second, as with any training device, condition the dog to the prong before using it. That means getting the dog used to wearing it by putting it on the dog for several walks, play sessions, etc... without actually using it. This prevents him from becoming collar wise (knowing he has to behave when he's wearing the collar because you can correct him.. and he doesn't have to behave when he's not wearing it because you can't correct him). And it builds a positive association with the collar so the dog thinks of it as a fun thing that means he's going to get to go for a walk or play, and will associate any corrections he gets as coming from you and not being related to the collar itself.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

What Chris said. Will also add that some handlers such as myself really do not do well trying to correct with a prong, especially in situations where the dog is tense and distracted. My prong corrections were always poorly timed, too weak/ineffective, and made things worse. For the average handler, having someone guide you with using the collar is good! The prong is temporary in any event, usually.. to train/teach.


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. My dog is rather dominant and becomes very interested when he see's a new dog enter the training group and becomes very fixated on that dog. The trainer always lends me his choker because we currently have the semi choker. After reading about that study about damage to the dog from a choker I cringe when using one and try give very slight corrections. I've seen the guide on leerburg, not sure if there are any other guides on the net with pictures and all? He didn't seem to fussed when I put it on him now. Just need to get him used to it as you say.


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## AnnaRiley (Feb 14, 2008)

I use a prong collar on my 98 lb gsdx when I take him anywhere with me - partly because I only weigh about 5 more pounds than he does. He associates it with good times - training, going for a walk, riding in the car. He gets really excited when I put it on him cause he knows he is going to be doing something with me.


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

How tightly are they supposed to fit? I'm not sure whether I need to order some more links...


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The Leerburg site has a good article, with photos, on fitting a prong collar. The collar should be tight enough that it will stay up high on the neck, behind the ears, without slipping down. If it slips down, it's too loose.

Highly unlikely you need to order more links unless your dog has a neck like a buffalo. In all the dog's I've had, I've always had to remove links to get a proper fit. Never had to add more than the collar initially came with.


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Craig88How tightly are they supposed to fit? I'm not sure whether I need to order some more links...


Here is the link to the article on the Leerburg site on fitting the prong collar.

http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

I use the prong as well as the martingale and flat collars. Have not yet completely eliminated the prong collar but tend to use it less and less and use the martingale type collar more.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have one and have used it on occasion for both of my dogs. I use one with small prongs. Kenya has a tiny neck (she wears 16 or 18" chokes and they slip over her head) so I still remove 1-2 links from the "medium" sized prong collar. I use one with a quick release b/c I hate having to pinch links to get it on and off. Neither of my dogs are reactive and would not lunge against a prong, that's not why I use it. I use it temporarily as a tool to help achieve very specific goals. For instance, I've pulled it back out and used it on Kenya for the past two days, just to clean up her heeling and start to perfect the left pivoting. Today is probably the last day I'll use it for this. I always use it in combination with rewards and praise, so it's clear to the dog what I WANT him/her to do, not only just getting corrections. Most of the time, the prong is self-correcting and I do not give corrections with it. If I want a really close, tight heel I move down on the leash and let the prong define when the dog is forging or lagging and then always mark and reward the dog when she is in the perfect position.

My motto with the prong is that it's a great tool, but like any other _tool_, the prong does not train the dog, YOU do.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I put mine on Brady everytime we leave the house. I have 5lbs on Brady and if something happens I want to be able to control the situation. 
We use to use it as a training device when he hit round 2 of training. Usually though when I am walking him I rarely have to correct him or hold him back.

I have problems when people use the collar incorrectly, that pisses me off


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## maxismom (Jan 13, 2008)

I just came across this thread and have several questions. I have never used or seen a prong collar in person. We have some issues with Max's behavior (when it comes to cats) and DH ended up buying an e-collar. I am against it so have managed so far to stave off him using it. So how exactly does a prong collar work? Does it actually have prongs on it that pinch the dog? How does it do this? Is it like a choke collar that can slide and tighten if you pull up on it? Would a collar like this be effective for us to use in the situation with the cats?


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

Personally I recommend high and tight on the neck only if the dog's regular collar is high and tight on the neck. Less risk of becoming wise to when it is on or off, in my opinion. Also, there is "live action" (lead attached to one ring on the chain) and "dead action" (lead attached to both rings on the chain - doesn't constrict but rather applies a directional correction). Both actions have merit.

It is a training tool, not an end all. 

By the way, they are not allowed on the grounds of an AKC event, nor are they allowed at USA trials. 

We have alot of different versions - some are actually quite nice looking.









Christine


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: maxismomI just came across this thread and have several questions. I have never used or seen a prong collar in person. We have some issues with Max's behavior (when it comes to cats) and DH ended up buying an e-collar. I am against it so have managed so far to stave off him using it. So how exactly does a prong collar work? Does it actually have prongs on it that pinch the dog? How does it do this? Is it like a choke collar that can slide and tighten if you pull up on it? Would a collar like this be effective for us to use in the situation with the cats?


Honestly I think the e-collar would be better. To effectively use punishment in this situation, you need to issue the correction within one second of the dog doing the undesired behavior. With a prong, that means somehow your dog is always on a leash and you are holding the end, anytime there might be a cat around.

Our dog chases cats (not really anymore) and we use neither technique, but if those were my options I'd use the e-collar.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Liesje
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: maxismomI just came across this thread and have several questions. I have never used or seen a prong collar in person. We have some issues with Max's behavior (when it comes to cats) and DH ended up buying an e-collar. I am against it so have managed so far to stave off him using it. So how exactly does a prong collar work? Does it actually have prongs on it that pinch the dog? How does it do this? Is it like a choke collar that can slide and tighten if you pull up on it? Would a collar like this be effective for us to use in the situation with the cats?
> ...


For this situation, I agree. One of the biggest keys to effective training is consistency. Every time the dog gets away with chasing a cat, the behavior will be reinforced. Even if 90% of the time it's corrected, if 10% of the time the dog gets away with it the behavior will be likely to repeat. An ecollar is easier to achieve consistency with, solely because it doesn't require the dog constantly dragging a leash around AND you being able to hold onto the end of that leash.

But as with any tool.. prong collar, flat collar, ecollar, Halti... the effectiveness, safety and humane use of the tool rests solely on the skill of the person using it. So whichever type of collar you choose, it is important to find a trainer to teach you how to use it properly. The dog must be taught how to respond to the collar, and must be conditioned to the collar so as not associate the correction with the collar itself (becoming collar wise... obeying when the collar is on, ignoring commands and doing what he wants when it's not).


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

http://www.leerburg.com/Photos/prong.jpg

that's what they look like. 

The prongs are against the dog's neck. They are not sharp. When a correction is given the prongs provide a "pinch," which has been described as similar to the feeling one dog might give another with a bite--or if you were to grasp the ruff with your fingers in a claw motion. Not a comfortable feeling...but also not dangerous, like a choke chain would be. It provides the ability for a person with limited strength to control a dog that they might not otherwise have. "Power steering" for dogs. 

There's a ring stop that prevents giving a correction that chokes or hurts the dog. 

Most of the time the dog will self-correct wearing this kind of collar. If they pull against the collar even a little, it pinches. if they don't pull, it is comfortable. 

But as Lies said, the dog has to be on a leash for this to be effective. If the issue with cats is occasionally seeing one while on walks, it might be a good tool. If it's your own cat in the house, then probably not. 

The very best use of this collar is for teaching a dog to walk with a loose lead.


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## umzilla (Nov 2, 2007)

Another thought - NEVER leave a prong collar on your dog unattended, or while playing with another dog. The prongs very easily get stuck on things, and could be really disastrous if tangled up with another dog.

Personally, I never leave collars on my dogs, period. They wear collars when we go out to do something, and I am right there with them.

Christine


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## ceardach (Apr 11, 2008)

I found the prong very useful for breaking Taedyn's attention on something, ie: dogs, rocks, sticks, motorcycles, etc. During these situations *nothing* would break her attention, and she'd quickly go up to berserker levels. I mean, nothing. Food, moving her, blocking vision, getting face to face with her, nothing would work.

With a prong, I correct, she breaks her attention on the object and then will listen to me. It was a life saver, honestly.

She then "suddenly" learned the "drop it" and "leave it" commands without any formal training. I think she actually knew what they meant, but was unable to comply due to her obsession.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

When used properly, a prong collar is a fantastic tool to break bad habits. 

It's also like power steering if you have an exuberant, powerful dog. My dog Luther weighed about 10 lbs less than me, he knew he could over power me so to the day he died, he never left the yard without one.

2 don'ts - don't leave him tied out on it. Take it off after training and walks. Don't let a petstore clerk fit your dog unless they seem extremely knowledgeable.


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## mtrozzi (May 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: littledmcI have problems when people use the collar incorrectly, that pisses me off


Good! Me too. 

In fact, it wasn't too long ago that we had our puppers out on a walk when we encountered a self-appointed dog training expert who was walking an unruly ridgeback with a VERY loosely fitted prong. For whatever reason, this woman felt compelled to comment that our prong was fit WAAAY too tight, and that the effectiveness of the prong would be found in the slack, so that when *snapped* the slack would take up and smack the dog in the throat. My wife and I looked at one another in an 'are you serious' sorta way, and proceeded to both snicker out loud. Now mind you, we are quite open minded people and would NEVER try to show anyone up, but this was a LOL exception that I think anyone with knowledge of prongs, and their intended use, would have found themselves doing as well. 

After apologizing for being rude and laughing (







), we kindly took some time and explained how we came to understand the need and effective use for the prong and why we had it fit the way we did. Too bad this woman was reluctant to hear a word of what we were saying. It was evident in the behavior of her dog that she was using _her_ prong as a direction tool, instead of a _correction_ tool.

Oh well. As they say, you can lead a horse to water...


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

Not sure if i'm using it correcly....? It's on his neck high up and snug but he still pulls forward and he's not too phazed when i give him a correction. We walked past a dog that was barking and he was pulling really hard to get to it despite the prong collar. It was his first time in it last night and he didn't yelp or seem upset about it at all, which is good but not sure if its working effectively?


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## ceardach (Apr 11, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Craig88Not sure if i'm using it correcly....? It's on his neck high up and snug but he still pulls forward and he's not too phazed when i give him a correction. We walked past a dog that was barking and he was pulling really hard to get to it despite the prong collar. It was his first time in it last night and he didn't yelp or seem upset about it at all, which is good but not sure if its working effectively?


Do you have a hard dog? It may not be getting through to him if he's the type of dog who needs more severe correction in order to register.

Also, his issue with other dogs may be too much for him for the prong to be effective. Either that, or your correction timing is off and it's just making it worse. Try to correct BEFORE he becomes obsessed with the other dog. As soon as my dog starts giving attention to another dog (eye contact with alert ears), I say, "NO!" If she doesn't immediately respond then I correct. Now I only need to correct infrequently because she responds to the "NO!"

You could also try switching from "dead" to "live" so the prong will contract during a correction.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: Craig88Not sure if i'm using it correcly....? It's on his neck high up and snug but he still pulls forward and he's not too phazed when i give him a correction. We walked past a dog that was barking and he was pulling really hard to get to it despite the prong collar. It was his first time in it last night and he didn't yelp or seem upset about it at all, which is good but not sure if its working effectively?


When he does this say 'Leave it' if he doesn't, give him the correction for not listening by taking quick snap on the leash which will pop with the prong collar - do the correction while saying Leave it. I like leave it rather than NO becuase no is too generic. Your dog will get it as long as your consistent.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I have a harder dog who doesn't respond too much to the prong when he's interested in something unless I make sure to do a couple things. 

1. It has to be on the live ring (this is just how it is with him)

2. Give a command. Do you want him walking nicely with you like a heel or a fuss? Or not that formal? I have 2 commands: walk (in position on my side) and fuss (in position with eyes up). If we're walking and he starts to pull forward I give a command (the command depends on the behavior you want, I use leave it or let's go if he's pulling toward a thing and not just forward) and then correct for non-compliance. 

2. POP don't pull. This is absolutely key with him. He will drag me if I give him the opportunity. He will start to lean into his prong and will just keep going. If I give a couple quick hard pops, he listens much better.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Sounds like Diesel. These dogs train rather quickly though! They're fun to work with.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how old is your dog? what made you think you need a prong collar?


> Originally Posted By: Craig88I finally bought a prong collar today and can't wait to try it out once the rain stops. Who here uses them and what are your experiences with them?


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## CAB (May 18, 2008)

As some of you said i'm most likely giving the correction too late. I actually let him go say hi to the other dog through the gate because he usually gets along fine with it. This time it started growling and snapping and by that stage he was too focused on it. 

He is quite a hard dog which required heavy corrections with the choker before i knew of the risks involved with it. 

He's 1.5yrs and he generally walks perfectly, not a focused heel though, but when there is a distraction that is when he pulls forward or just becomes obsessed.


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## Bellidansa (Jan 23, 2007)

I only use a prong on Tonga for walks or when we are out amoungst the public.

He does not give me any problems, though he is an animal and he has been known to suprise me at times.

Even when he wears the prong, it isn't warrented for long periods of time, and if we are out, and he is finished being hyper, I normally take it off.

I do not like the idea of fighting with a 100 lb plus dog in public, so the prong is very effective. 

AND just in case, I bring my little bottle of wawa n vinegar for extra measure ! ICK !


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## Rosie (Oct 22, 2007)

Craig88 - Your leash needs to be loose to do the correction effectively so when your dog is dragging on it it has no effect other than to toughen up his neck. (This isn't criticism - I did the same thing when I tried one on my dog. My instructor taught me the correct way.) When he drags forward, push your arms ahead and make a HUGE correction on the snap back. You have to really make him notice when he is amped up so it may seem really cruel but the next corrections will be so much easier you will be amazed. Be consistent and DON"T LET HIM DRAG ON IT!!! I can't stress that enough. Rosie still tries so I have to keep reminding her, usually by voice, that she has to stay with me. The correction should also be up in the air more than straight back. You don't want to snap the neck back hard after all.
I am still using one on Rosie after a year because she is such a reactive dog. I can take her almost anywhere in town on a loose leash though, but if I put a flat collar back on she will try to drag me all over again.


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## maxismom (Jan 13, 2008)

Thanks for the advise. It does sound like the e-collar is the way to go with Max







The prong collar though would be helpful in training him while walking. He often gets distracted and will attempt to pull me forward to see something or to change direction. DH said the collar can be used for training with walking. I don't want to overuse this collar (we have not actually tried it yet) and feel the prong collar would be fine for other training besides our cats. 

Chris you are right about the consistency. When we do have a leash on him and he attempts to chase the cats we can get control of him and he is starting to get it. If we don't have the leash on or are not right there to correct him, off he goes chasing them. He is getting mixed messages. 

I have been looking around for someone local who has experience using the collar but have not found anyone so far. The breeder is quite a way aways, but she said she would show us how to use it but it would be at her place without the cats there. Not sure if that is going to help. I would rather someone who knew what they were doing here using the remote to show us when the dog and cats are doing their "thing".


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

i don't have much experience with dogs or collars, but we have a prong collar that our trainer gave us to use for beamer, he showed us the proper way to use it & how she needs to wear it, i think that if you have proper education about it, it is a great tool.

we have had great success with it. =)


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## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

I admit, I was one of those people who thought prong collars were cruel and couldn't understand why people used them. Then we got Chevy. Loves to go for walks, as well as pull and chase cars







I tried regular collars, a martingale, regular choke, and a Gentle Leader. None with much success. While using each of those collars, I tried different methods of correction to keep him from pulling and chasing cars and was unsuccessful. So we got a prong and I'll tell you what, it has made a world of difference for us. Now when a car passes he doesn't try to chase it because he knows if he does, he will get a quick correction. We have fun and pleasant walks now instead of stressful ones. Every dog is different and you have to use what works for your dog


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when did you start training your dog?


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

I am a fan of the pronged collar, if the dog is aggressive toward others and tough to control on leash. 

Timber's behavior toward bikers and joggers literally changed on one walk with the collar about a year ago. High on the neck and tight, only a few jerks and the problem was resolved. 

The collar was suggested by my breeder versus other possible solutions and worked well.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

training your dog is a much better tool than a prong. i've never used a prong. Sheps are so easy to train.


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaDon't let a petstore clerk fit your dog unless they seem extremely knowledgeable.


I had to laugh when I saw this because I was out walking my 12y/o Shepherd when I ran into a neighbor who has a 3y/o Shepherd and was taking him for his very first walk. (The dog has a severely deformed leg from birth so he doesn't go out much) I stopped to talk to them and they had a prong collar on him with the some of the prongs pointed towards the dog's neck and some pointed out. They had a leash tied around one of the prong sections, not to the swivel loop. There were 2 links too many for an appropriate fit. I fixed the collar for them and showed them how to use it properly, they were so grateful and told me that when they bought it at the petstore, the employees were too busy to show them how to use the collar. So sad. BTW, if you are concerned about it "hurting" the dog, I recommend putting the collar around your leg and pulling on it to see what it feels like, it really isn't as awful as it looks. Another interesting thought, just last week we had a guest speaker at my grooming school that told us the prong collar mimics the alpha dog biting the misbehaving dog around the neck as a correction. Don't know how much truth is in that, but it sounds like a reasonable analogy.


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## assortedagility (Jun 21, 2008)

I bought my first prong recently so that I could work and train dogs at the humane society more effectively. I do not like choke chains, and that was the only other training tool available to me. Now I have a head halti, a prong, and will soon have an easy walk harness. So far I'm absolutley loving the prong collar. Great great tool. Never again will I need a choke.


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## deborahgym2 (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi,
I use the prong collar for walks too. My GSD sometimes likes to lunge at cars so for me, the prong is a must. If not, my shoulder would have already been torn off. I guess it depends on the dog and the situation.


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