# 5 Month Sudden Aggression - First Heat?



## Exy Arnette (Oct 8, 2013)

I wasn't sure whether to post this in Breeding, Puppies, or Behavior so I apologize if this has been covered before.

I have a 5 month (as of 10/12) female that I've had since she was 6 weeks. She is generally timid, submissive, super sweet and obedient. In the last week she has started barking at passersby and the dogs down the road when they come near our property. All of which I'm glad for (rather than her cowering in the house while our male puppy does the work!). But she has also started barking and lunging at her best bud, our 6 month male Rottweiler/GSD mix. When she does this it's totally random and unprovoked, other than him just walking by. And just tonight she growled at my 20 month old when he was sitting next to her. And then my 3 1/2 year old went to take a napkin she was chewing and she bit him on the hand. Nothing serious, but scary nonetheless. 

So I'm hoping she's in her first heat and that's the reason for the aggression. Our vet said about 5 1/2 months is about the earliest this can happen. I am calling to schedule her spay early first thing in the morning. I really hope this solves the sudden personality change. 

What do you guys think? Is any of this normal for a GSD?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

You are describing a dog that has been fearful from the get-go, who is starting to mature and is very unsure of her role. 


> All of which I'm glad for (rather than her cowering in the house while our male puppy does the work!)


You should not be expecting EITHER puppy to be protective right now-- puppies are protected, not the other way around. This is fearful behavior, not protective behavior, and encouraging it rather than nipping it in the bud may very well lead to the sort of escalation that you're now seeing. 
This really sounds like fear-based aggression beginning to escalate, not necessarily anything to do with being in heat. This means it won't be an easy fix. What sort of training do you do with her?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

You would know if she is in heat, she would be swollen and there would be blood.
I suspect what LoveEcho said is what is going on. This needs to be nipped in the butt now and stopped. With both dogs, or you are going to have a mess on your hands. Any bite to a child is not a good thing and it will esculate.
Get a professional trainer and get one fast.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. You need to enforce some kind of discipline. The dog should not be in a position to growl or bite at your children.

The pup is too young for her heat. And the behavior is not relative to hormones. It is her temperament and the fact that she has no guidance and discipline. She needs training. She needs boundaries and rules. She needs activities and exercise.

And all dogs need leadership.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

5 months is a little early for the onset of heat. You would be seeing other signs, her vulva would be swollen and you would see some blood drips. More likely is that this aggression is fear and insecurity based; this is a very dangerous situation and you need to address it. Have you taken her to obedience classes? Was she socialized? If not, get her signed up ASAP and if the aggression continues, get private counsel from a trainer or behaviorist.


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## Exy Arnette (Oct 8, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> You are describing a dog that has been fearful from the get-go, who is starting to mature and is very unsure of her role.
> 
> You should not be expecting EITHER puppy to be protective right now-- puppies are protected, not the other way around. This is fearful behavior, not protective behavior, and encouraging it rather than nipping it in the bud may very well lead to the sort of escalation that you're now seeing.
> This really sounds like fear-based aggression beginning to escalate, not necessarily anything to do with being in heat. This means it won't be an easy fix. What sort of training do you do with her?


Part of my concern is that there was no escalation. This all happened within a matter of 4-5 days. The only thing that coincided with the change is her ears went up (for the second time, and I assume permanently). So you're right that she's maturing mentally as it's certainly happening physically. 

As far as training I am ignorant of any specifically named methods. But I have house trained her (which also just stuck), sit, wait (stay), where she sleeps, and what parts of the house she's allowed, and to stay off the furniture. She has (other than the napkin) never exhibited any food aggression whatsoever. And I take the kids' toys out of her mouth with no problem. I still separate the dogs when they eat because she will eat his food (he's a lot slower and more laid back).

As far as exercise, we live on property and run the trails, and she's constantly wrestling with her buddy.

And with socialization, she's exposed to people that come over, the Grandparents' house (and their dogs), and what little she gets at the vet. 

I am going to call the vet to see what help I can get and a referral to a trainer, but please keep the advise coming.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

The training that you are referring to is not the training that she needs. She needs formal obedience training in a class environment and she needs boundaries and limits at home too. Puppies need leadership and consistency. 

You might also want to Google the training technique called "Nothing in Life is Free". It is a great way to manage dog behavior.


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## Exy Arnette (Oct 8, 2013)

WVGSD said:


> she needs boundaries and limits at home too. Puppies need leadership and consistency.


Other than what I've already listed as having done, what more "boundaries and limits" should be imposed? I also believe that what I have done has offered leadership and consistency. She is not exhibiting any behavior other than the sudden aggression that is undesirable. I think if I was failing in the leadership and consistency aspect she would have other behavior issues as well. This seems to be a more specialized concern. I've found a trainer that does private sessions. I have also scheduled a consult with her vet. 

There seems to be a recurring theme on this forum that if an owner has a dog with behavioral issues it's the owner not providing something in the EXACT way any one person or school of thought says they should. It reminds me of being pregnant and everyone telling me what I just HAD to do to parent properly. 

Seems like "newbies" are treated like morons. I worked in vet hospitals all through college, and for breeders as well (specifically Akitas). I went on to work as a hematologist for a veterinary diagnostic lab. I came to this forum looking for insight and support and am now leaving disgruntled and annoyed.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When was the last set of vaccinations, and what was given?

I have seen a lot of bitches come into season, and nothing like what you are describing behaviorwise. 

I have also had puppies that were somewhat timid, who do not do what this dog is doing. If the puppy's behavior changed dramatically, I would be looking for a physical reason for this to happen. Especially at this age. 

7 months is probably the earliest that I have seen a puppy get into that stupid adolescent stage where they forget how to sit, and they feel they need to start barking at everything. 5.5 month old pups might be way more suspicious of strangers than 3- 3.5 month old pups, and not want to be petted by them. But they shouldn't be showing aggression with family members. 5.5 and 6.5 month old dogs might play pretty rough.


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## Exy Arnette (Oct 8, 2013)

Thank you Selzer. This is the exact information that I was looking for. Her last vaccine, distemper combo, was exactly 5 weeks ago. I am taking her in tomorrow to rule out anything physical and see what the vet thinks. I'm interested to see how she reacts to the strangers and other dogs at the vet, as she hasn't been around anyone new since this change occurred.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No rabies shot yet? 

There could be a physical reason (disease) for increased aggression, or out of the blue aggression. 

It could be genetic, and the way your puppy is developing. 

Your pup could benefit from strict adherence to a leadership program like NILIF, with training and exercise. 

I think that spaying while you are unsure of what is going on, and while your pup is acting strangely isn't a good idea. There is some evidence that spaying can increase aggression/reactivity in females. But if you are planning on spaying her, then I would try to get whatever is going on under control, and then do it. 

5 weeks for a vaccine reaction? Your vet will never believe that. I am not sure I do, but others may have more information about them than I do. A lot of areas require rabies either at 4 months or 6 months, so I thought maybe she just had a rabies shot, and that can be a tough vaccine. 

Kids and two puppies is a lot. I think once you check for any physical issues, I would get a live behaviorist to assess your pup and work out a plan for dealing with these things that are making you nervous. 

Good luck.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Exy Arnette said:


> I came to this forum looking for insight and support and am now leaving disgruntled and annoyed.


What is it that has you "disgruntled and annoyed"? You asked for help and advice. People have gone out of their way and taken time to respond to your question thoughtfully, and good advice has been given. Was it simply not what you wanted to hear? 

Also, I don't understand what working in a veterinary hematology lab has to do with anything, or why that would make the advice you've been given any less sound.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Was it something I said?


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## harmony (May 30, 2002)

Early to heat too. Is your dog starting to feel like it fighting for it's role? and it bit a kid .


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