# Bad Helpers?



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I watched this video and I was wondering if the fact that the dogs couldn't get a bite was the decoy's fault.






If it was due to a poor decoy, how can you go about knowing whether or not you're using a good helper before your dog (or any other dog) gets injured?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

These clips are extremely short, but it doesn't look like the helper is doing anything incorrectly that caused the dogs to miss. I don't have a way to make these clips go slower so I can watch them frame to frame. Something people have to remember is that helpers are human. When catching this many dogs at a HUGE trial like the Bundessiegerprüfung they are going to make a few usually minor mistakes. 

At a big trial you hope that those choosing the helpers chose the safest and best helpers for the dogs. When training or trialing at a club trial you, yourself, are responsible for watching the helpers work dogs and deciding if the work is safe


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

The helper turned early on all three bites. His sleeve presentation was sideways on each bite. So IMO in his quest not to jam the dogs he ended up bailing severly.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> His sleeve presentation was sideways on each bite.


It also looked to be that the sleeve presentation was low.. I would like to see the whole picture.. with the helper running towards the dog to see where his sleeve presentation started..


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

G-burg said:


> It also looked to be that the sleeve presentation was low.. I would like to see the whole picture.. with the helper running towards the dog to see where his sleeve presentation started..


In baseball we would call it low and away!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Swing and a miss!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Yup, the helper bailed. Which, if the helper is going to make a mistake in timing (and no one is perfect and they all do sometimes, no matter what their skill level), I'd rather have a bail than a jam and a helper who is overly conscious of not hurting the dog than one who doesn't care.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Honest question here:

Should the dog not still be able to get in a bite even if the helper moves a bit, or is it just accepted in the sport that the handler has to feed them the sleeve?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

A dog cannot change trajectory mid air. If the helper suddenly sidesteps, the dog will miss. That's just the way it is. In some sports, dodging dogs like a bullfighter is considered appropriate. Of course, those are also bitesuit sports with a much larger target area (any part of the decoy he can get) and a much softer target. In SchH, there is a very small target and that target is very hard and rigid and shaped like a wedge. With a sleeve, unlike a suit, improper presentation doesn't just rob the dog of a fair chance it also risks injury. 

As far as "feeding" the sleeve, that is not what is happening. The sleeve is to be extended out in front of the helper so that the dog has a correct bite presentation, and to allow the helper space to absorb some of the shock with his arm as he turns to deflect the dog's momentum. SchH sleeves are HARD. An incorrect bite presentation or standing square and not turning with the dog, and broken teeth and spinal injuries are very possible.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

That makes sense, thanks for explaining.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

I don't think the decoy "bailed". Two of the three dogs on the video got their teeth on the sleeve and IMO if a dog can get teeth on the sleeve the only way he should come of is if the teeth come out. 

This decoy does have an unusal way of holding the sleeve and I think that is why the dogs failed to stick the bite. If a dog has only seen the sleeve held a certain way they come in looking for that "presentation" and when it's not there they have problems. 

If you train for the weird stuff and teach the dog to take the bite, and not wait for it to be "presented" to them, these types of problems might diminish.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Wow ...Fast is back...whoever you are...seen any pink elephants lately...


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Welcome back Fast. Good to see you again.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

holland said:


> Wow ...Fast is back...whoever you are...seen any pink elephants lately...


Other than your mom?:laugh:


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

So what is more important...correct presentation or the dog ensuring he/she makes good contact??


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Not that I have a clue but it looks to me like the helper made the dog miss...of course why would he do that..so that's just silly isn't it


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