# Orijen Large Breed Puppy + 5 Months of patience = Still Diarrhea



## bboylayz

Hey all,

I want to start out by saying, this is a very detailed post about poo so if it makes you uncomfortable, I'd suggest skipping this hahaha.

I've had my GSD puppy on Orijen since switching him off it it when I got him at 8 weeks old. His stool was always loose and it was always a coin toss on whether it would be mostly solid or complete pudding. With patience we eventually got him to a point where his stool was mostly solid consistently and it only took him a minute to poop and be done. He was about 3-4 months old then.

The we moved to CA (from MA). But a week before we left we had a get together with friends to say bye. One made a very very very stupid move and put chocolate carvel icecream cake on a shoebox laying around instead of on the table. And of course within seconds, puppy devoured it. We were battling with EXPLOSIVE diarrhea for over a month. Literally every 2 hours he needed to go outside and could barely make it out the door before it was too late. After a couple months we FINALLY got a solid poo. But again its always a coin toss but now instead of solid-ish stool vs mushy stool, it is kind of solid vs straight diarrhea. And even when he has a solid-ish poo, he keeps on trying and always pushes out a few drops of diarrhea.

We are very very patient and just keep him on a consistent diet with very little extra treats (thankfully he's happy to train for his Orijen instead of other rich treats). We've noticed that it could be that Orijen is just VERY rich and we need to feed him a lot less of it. So we tried out that theory and cut him back a lot and his stool is more consistently solid, but he's starting to see reaaally skinny, which worried me because he should be a growing puppy. So we also tried canned pumpkin. Can't really tell any difference with him on pumpkin but we are still trying.

Through all of this, he has been doing great on the food (other than the recent scrawniness). His coat is absolutely gorgeous and he gets comments on it from everyone. I just don't know what to do! I need to feed him more to grow but his stomach just doesn't seem to agree with it. I don't want to feed him some other cheap processed food and I feel after reading up on it that Orijen is the best kibble on the market. Do you think I should try switching him to the adult formula of Orijen and see if that works better? Or will that be dangerous because a different ratio of proteins and what not?

What do you guys think?


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## S19977

My vet told me to switch from Orijen Large puppy to Orijen adult at about 5 months old. He's been great on it. His stool is usually solid. If he's had a bullystick, pig ear or treats the day before, it is usually soft and mushy (and impossible to pick up.. yuck). FWIW, my dog's been on Orijen most of his life (11 mos old now) and he is on the skinny side. I can sometimes see his ribs when he walks/runs. Vet says he is healthy though at around 65lbs.

I'm assuming you've ruled out any parasites etc...


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## bboylayz

Also, forgot to mention. To make this worse, it seems he probably picked something up at the dog park a couple weeks back and ended up with an intestinal infection. More explosive diarrhea and vomiting. Vets admitted him, put him on IV and antibiotics. He recovered from the fever and vomiting in 2 days but then was put on Science I/D for a week or so to let his stomach heal. He did OK on it stool hardness-wise but I assume there are a lot of fibrous fillers that the grain free diets try to avoid. Poor guy has been suffering from diarrhea his whole life so far. 

I would talk to my vet but they have never heard of Orijen and grain free (the previous actually told me grain-free isn't the way to go because dogs are omnivores). My stand on that is that dogs are carnivores with the ability to process other types of food as well to survive. But my vet will probably just say switch him to Iams and if he still doesn't do well, we can test him for bowel disease etc. Just assuming... I could be wrong. Want to try other things before resorting to using my vet as a nutritionist.


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## bboylayz

S19977 said:


> My vet told me to switch from Orijen Large puppy to Orijen adult at about 5 months old. He's been great on it. His stool is usually solid. If he's had a bullystick, pig ear or treats the day before, it is usually soft and mushy (and impossible to pick up.. yuck). FWIW, my dog's been on Orijen most of his life (11 mos old now) and he is on the skinny side. I can sometimes see his ribs when he walks/runs. Vet says he is healthy though at around 65lbs.
> 
> I'm assuming you've ruled out any parasites etc...


Good to know he is doing well on adult food at such a young age. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Yeah, we've ruled out parasites and what not. Especially since the intestinal infection episode a couple weeks ago. They ran lots and lots of tests.

Do you use regular Orijen adult or the Orijen 6 Fish or whatever that one is? Also, did he have diarrhea issues with large breed puppy?


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## bboylayz

Oh btw, in case anyone was wondering, he is now about 7.5 months old and at about 58 pounds


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## Chicagocanine

I was not sure from your post, have you tried any other foods?
It could be that he is allergic or sensitive to some ingredient in the Orijen. Or it could be that he has an issue like SIBO or EPI. Also some dogs just do not do well on certain foods even if they are the best foods out there (which I agree Orijen a good one) so that is another possibility.

If he is 7 months I think it should probably be ok to switch to an adult/all life stages food.


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## S19977

bboylayz said:


> Good to know he is doing well on adult food at such a young age. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Yeah, we've ruled out parasites and what not. Especially since the intestinal infection episode a couple weeks ago. They ran lots and lots of tests.
> 
> Do you use regular Orijen adult or the Orijen 6 Fish or whatever that one is? Also, did he have diarrhea issues with large breed puppy?


I usually just get the Orijen Adult (I think it's blue). I just ordered the fish flavor (red bag) to change things up. His stool was softer with the puppy food yes. I brought it up to the vet and they attributed it mostly to an immature system. I used to be really OCD about his stool. But nowadays I don't worry too much about it, unless the vet says something. 

Good point what Chicagocanine said. I have a cat that was on very good food, but had soft stools. I switched to a comparable brand and things got better, or should I say....firmer


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## BlackGSD

The "best" kibble is one that agrees with your dog! Personally I would have switched his food a long time ago to see it that cleared up the poop issues. (And I don't mean to another Orijen kibble either.) I would try something a little less "high powered".


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## bboylayz

I haven't tried other foods (except the Science diet he was one for a week and a half after the infection). I've been just hoping it would get better after a couple months of consistency but other unforseen factors kept getting in the way (the chocolate ice cream cake, the stomach infection) so I wasn't really SURE his body was ever in a great state to efficiently digest and adapt to the food as it would for more than a month or two and adjust without something else happening. But I'm now finally starting to think it may be the food. I think I will probably get him the Orijen Adult and see if that helps in the next month and if not maybe I'll switch him to Canidate grain free (the only reason why I haven't tried it was because I heard Orijen has a better Calcium and Phosphorus level to prevent skeletal issues while they are growing).

S19977, how much do you feed him a day? Currently on large breed puppy he is getting about 2-2.5 cups daily - split up to two meals a day far apart (with little bits of it throughout the day during training). Figure the further apart the better so it isn't just quickly passing through his system and actually let his body absorb as much as it can before more food moves the system along.


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## bboylayz

BlackGSD said:


> The "best" kibble is one that agrees with your dog! Personally I would have switched his food a long time ago to see it that cleared up the poop issues. (And I don't mean to another Orijen kibble either.) I would try something a little less "high powered".


The reason he is still on it is because I don't think it was given a fair chance given all the circumstances AND other than the soft stool, he's been doing GREAT on it. Coat is incredible, doesn't shed as much as most German Shedders I see haha. And his energy level is great as well. I took him out for 5 hours today and just played ball, ran around, did some training, then ran around with other dogs. And we was still going. I was the one that had to call it quits. We did the same thing yesterday.

But if the stool never improves after a couple more months without incident (illness, etc), I probably will find another high quality food. Do you recommend any other brands? So far I am considering Canidae grain free.


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## KZoppa

i just wanted to mention that Orijen can be too rich for some dogs. I would switch to a different brand and see how he does. Some foods are too rich for some dogs and those same foods work fabulously with another dogs system.


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## BlackGSD

I would go with something that isn't grain free( until he is over 12 months.) If the Orijen doesn't work. Most other grain free kibbles are high in calcium.


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## dogfaeries

I went through much the same thing when one of my GSDs was a puppy. She was on Orijen LB puppy. Erratic poop - soft, diarrhea, firm. And skinny! Great coat, but so thin. 

I tried a few other dog foods, Nature's Variety is the only one I can think of right now. Didn't really work. She'd have firm poop for a week, and then back to diarrhea.

She went through the EPI, SIBO and giardia testing, to make sure this wasn't the issue. Everything came up negative. He did put her on a month of metronidazole, and I switched her to Earthborn Primitive. We haven't had a problem since. 

Hope you come up with a solution soon. I know it's frustrating!


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## bboylayz

dogfaeries said:


> I went through much the same thing when one of my GSDs was a puppy. She was on Orijen LB puppy. Erratic poop - soft, diarrhea, firm. And skinny! Great coat, but so thin.
> 
> I tried a few other dog foods, Nature's Variety is the only one I can think of right now. Didn't really work. She'd have firm poop for a week, and then back to diarrhea.
> 
> She went through the EPI, SIBO and giardia testing, to make sure this wasn't the issue. Everything came up negative. He did put her on a month of metronidazole, and I switched her to Earthborn Primitive. We haven't had a problem since.
> 
> Hope you come up with a solution soon. I know it's frustrating!



There is hope! haha thanks! How is she on Earthborn Primitive as far as other non stool related things? Energy? Coat? Etc? The one thing I'll be sad about switching him off of Orijen if I do is if his coat isn't as amazing as it is now (I keep stressing his coat cause it really is better than any other dogs I've met haha)


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## cassadee7

I had the same situation with the alternating solids/puddings for about 4 months on Orijen LBP. Also it seemed any excess treats gave watery diarrhea. At about 6mo I switched to Orijen Adult and got perfect, solid poos from then on. 

After a couple months on that I switched to California Naturals chicken/rice formula for 2 reasons: 1) we still were getting occasional watery poo if she had major treats, and I'd have to feed her boiled chicken and rice to get her solid again so I thought hey, why not just go to a chicken/rice dog food? and 2) it is cheaper while still being a good quality food. NO more watery poo, at all, regardless of treats etc, in almost 2 months being on this food.


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## dogfaeries

She still has a gorgeous coat. Not much shedding, well, except for the massive blowing of coat about 6 weeks ago. It's all growing back in now. Very thick and very shiny. My breeder is always commenting on it.

Energy has never been a problem with Carly. She is the dog that goes and goes and goes and goes.

I feed Earthborn to both my GSDs. The "little" one is 16 months old now, and she does well on it too. I rotate between the formulas (Primitive, Coastal Catch and the other grainless one), mainly because they don't stock much at a time, and I get what's ever available.

Not saying every dog will do well on it, but mine do.


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## dogfaeries

I had that same problem giving treats with Orijen too. Seemed like everything just ran right through her. 

Just didn't work for my dogs.


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## bboylayz

Thanks everyone! So my plan of attack is this:

Start him on Orijen Adult
If no luck, try Earthborn
If no luck still, try another brand like Canidae
If all else fails, switch him to a high quality food with grains
If still nothing, get him checked up for medical causes.

How long should I try each food after a 1-2 week transition period before deciding it isn't working?


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## RocketDog

You might consider Blue Wilderness either chicken or the salmon one. Low in calcium and phosphorus but grain free too. Also, my labrador did really well on Wellness Core and Taste of the Wild High Prairie and the lamb one too. I think the calcium is a bit high for a young dog, though. 

My pup is on Orijen LBP and doing ok, sorry to hear about yours. Hope it gets better. 

The canned pumpkin seemed to help during the occasional bouts--also my breeder gave me a powdered probiotic. Have you tried plain greek yogurt, maybe to restore some good bacteria?


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## cassadee7

I'd give it a good 3-4 weeks or however long a large 35-40ish pound bag of dog food lasts to decide. Good luck!


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## bboylayz

Thanks RocketDog, I'll give the plain greek yogurt a try as well. What is the name of the powdered probiotic you use? Maybe I'll see if I can find some online.

And thanks cassadee7!


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## RocketDog

Eagle Pack Holistic Solution. My breeder gave it to me when we picked him up, and said when he got diarrhea to put it on his food. So I have, but also with canned pumpkin, so I don't know if it was both, one or the other, or neither that worked, lol.


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## Chicagocanine

bboylayz said:


> Start him on Orijen Adult
> If no luck, try Earthborn
> If no luck still, try another brand like Canidae
> If all else fails, switch him to a high quality food with grains
> If still nothing, get him checked up for medical causes.


I think all those foods contain similar protein sources? I would also consider trying a food with a different protein source and/or different starch in case there is an allergy or ingredient sensitivity involved.


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## Samba

I feed Orijen and Acana quite a bit. But, I also have German Shepherds who do better on a food with grain in it. The grain frees are not the best foods exclusively. Some advice and advertising would have one believe so, but it simply is just not always the case.


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## AgileGSD

I would strongly encourage you to test him for EPI before you go any further with the food quest. This sounds very much like the dogs I have known of who have it, although I hope it's not. IMO it is important to rule that out at this point. If he has EPI, no amount of food switching is going to help and he the longer the issue isn't addressed the more likely it is that he will get intestinal infections and also lose weight/muscle mass. If he doesn't, then at least you know what isn't causing the problem. 

Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency


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## S19977

bboylayz said:


> I haven't tried other foods (except the Science diet he was one for a week and a half after the infection). I've been just hoping it would get better after a couple months of consistency but other unforseen factors kept getting in the way (the chocolate ice cream cake, the stomach infection) so I wasn't really SURE his body was ever in a great state to efficiently digest and adapt to the food as it would for more than a month or two and adjust without something else happening. But I'm now finally starting to think it may be the food. I think I will probably get him the Orijen Adult and see if that helps in the next month and if not maybe I'll switch him to Canidate grain free (the only reason why I haven't tried it was because I heard Orijen has a better Calcium and Phosphorus level to prevent skeletal issues while they are growing).
> 
> S19977, how much do you feed him a day? Currently on large breed puppy he is getting about 2-2.5 cups daily - split up to two meals a day far apart (with little bits of it throughout the day during training). Figure the further apart the better so it isn't just quickly passing through his system and actually let his body absorb as much as it can before more food moves the system along.


On adult food, he gets two full cups a day (one in the AM, one in the PM). He also gets tons of treats during his time at daycare. I may need to feed him more though, he is pretty skinny. Part of it is that he never is laying around (except when he sleeps at night). He does agility during the week, EVERY day combined with walks. 

If I were to try another food right now, I would check out Taste of the Wild or Blue Buffalo. These are the other foods my local pet shop carries that are pretty decent.


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## dogfaeries

AgileGSD said:


> I would strongly encourage you to test him for EPI before you go any further with the food quest. This sounds very much like the dogs I have known of who have it, although I hope it's not. IMO it is important to rule that out at this point. If he has EPI, no amount of food switching is going to help and he the longer the issue isn't addressed the more likely it is that he will get intestinal infections and also lose weight/muscle mass. If he doesn't, then at least you know what isn't causing the problem.
> 
> Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency



I agree! If this has been going on for some time, then I would get him tested. 

My vet is pretty GSD savvy, so he was on top of this and suggested we find out for sure. And like I said, even though her tests were all negative, he put her on metronidazole for a month anyway. I think that, along, with the food change, did the trick for us. She was about 8 months old when I had the testing done, and and that was exactly a year ago.


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## Stosh

Stosh couldn't tolerate Orijen either- he's not crazy about chicken so he was on the Red but still too rich for him. He loves Taste of the Wild and hasn't had a problem since.


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## Sambuca

This sounds very similar to what we went through with Sam. While he never had "explosive" diarhea his stool was always soft. We tried many different kinds of kibble from Orijen to Hill's ID, etc. He would eat 8 cups and still want more. His body just wasn't absorbing the food. He did spend a couple of nights at the vet with an IV as well when the doc diagnosed him with SIBO.

What eventually worked the best for us was a RAW diet. We started him on this when he was 11 months and haven't looked back. He immediately started putting on weight and filling in like how he should. He's 18 months now and close to 100lbs but with a very athletic build (not overweight). 

Constantly battling diarhea and vomitting can't be good for the pup. RAW turned out to be not as confusing as we first thought. Just something to consider if you don't start getting better results soon.


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## Davey Benson

Sambuca said:


> ...Constantly battling diarhea and vomitting can't be good for the pup. RAW turned out to be not as confusing as we first thought. Just something to consider if you don't start getting better results soon.


I was thinking the same thing. I would rather have no hair at all, than to go through life eating something that gave me explosive diarhea. 

5 or 6 months isn't very long in human years.... its a good chunk of a dogs life. 

You are currently feeding a 6 star rated dog food, I would look at the list here, and try another one. I have fed my girl TOTW Prairie, and she has done well on it. 

Dog Food Reviews - Main Index - Powered by ReviewPost


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## Wolfgeist

Have you taken your pup to the vet to see if consuming chocolate did damage to him? An ingredient in chocolate called theobromine is toxic to dogs. A symptom of toxic damage is diarrhea.


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## sharkey19

When considering switching diets, I wouldn't look at the brand so much as the protein source. Often that is what is the issue. If you switch from one brand's chicken diet to another chicken diet, you will probably have the same problem. 

My guy had soft stools a lot when he was young. We switched him to medi-cal and he is doing great. I have to agree with other people, the best kibble is the one your dog does well on.


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## sharkey19

Samba said:


> I feed Orijen and Acana quite a bit. But, I also have German Shepherds who do better on a food with grain in it. The grain frees are not the best foods exclusively. Some advice and advertising would have one believe so, but it simply is just not always the case.


And I totally agree with this. I know wolves are carnivores, but remember, dogs evolved along with humans over thousands of years. Which means they evolved eating human scraps, including grains.


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## Emoore

sharkey19 said:


> When considering switching diets, I wouldn't look at the brand so much as the protein source. Often that is what is the issue. If you switch from one brand's chicken diet to another chicken diet, you will probably have the same problem.
> 
> My guy had soft stools a lot when he was young. We switched him to medi-cal and he is doing great. I have to agree with other people, the best kibble is the one your dog does well on.





sharkey19 said:


> And I totally agree with this. I know wolves are carnivores, but remember, dogs evolved along with humans over thousands of years. Which means they evolved eating human scraps, including grains.



Good points here. Also remember that grain free does not equal all meat. Most grain-free foods have as much starch as grain-inclusive foods, just in the form of potato or sweet potato instead of rice. Many dogs tolerate rice better than potato. People like to use the "dogs are carnivores so I feed grain-free" argument, never realizing how much potato, sweet potato, and peas their dog is eating.


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## Nymeria

My Nymeria has same problem, Now we feed her less than the guide on bag, OK, and mix with water.


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## turn-r-us

My pup is 11 weeks now and have had her on Orijen LPB for about 3 weeks. She poops 2 times per day. She tends to go twice on one outing one after another. The first time she opens up the stool is good consistency. Then 20 secs later she will squat again and the poop is very very soft like pupping. She is 22 lbs now and seems to be gaining about 2 lbs per week.

Should I be concerned and change her food?

Thanks


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## LaRen616

turn-r-us said:


> My pup is 11 weeks now and have had her on Orijen LPB for about 3 weeks. She poops 2 times per day. She tends to go twice on one outing one after another. The first time she opens up the stool is good consistency. Then 20 secs later she will squat again and the poop is very very soft like pupping. She is 22 lbs now and seems to be gaining about 2 lbs per week.
> 
> Should I be concerned and change her food?
> 
> Thanks


First I would add some canned pumpkin to her kibble to help firm up her stools. I would try that for a couple of days, if that doesn't work I would try a bland diet of cooked chicken and rice for a couple of days. If there are no changes within a week then I would take her to the Vet for a check up.


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## DellaWrangler

Have your vet run a fecal with Giardia on him. By the sounds of it, it could be Giardia (loose stools, not putting on weight), which is pretty common and easily treatable.


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## turn-r-us

Thanks guys I am going to have bet check for giardia just incase as she is going in to get some shots today anyways.


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