# Dog bites off part of Home Depot greeter's nose



## GregK

Dog bites off part of Home Depot greeter's nose - Ottawa - CBC News

Don't be surprised if HD changes their policy. 

Also:

http://www.cjad.com/blog/KimFraserShow/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10228801


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## JeffM

GregK said:


> Dog bites off part of Home Depot greeter's nose - Ottawa - CBC News
> 
> Don't be surprised if HD changes their policy.


Their policy is no dogs, just the local store never enforced it.

The elderly lady that owns the dog is fighting the fine and says there isn't a muzzle small enough for her dog.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

I wonder if the employee asked if she could pet the dog, or just leaned over the top of it and tried to pet it without permission? I hate when people automatically assume it's their right to pet any dog they come in contact with.


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## Liesje

Yikes!

Our HD doesn't allow dogs, only SDs of course and sometimes dogs in the therapy training program (which is organized w/ HD, you can't just walk up and say you have a therapy dog).


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## GregK

JeffM said:


> Their policy is no dogs, just the local store never enforced it.


In this neck of the woods dogs are allowed in a lot of Home Depots.


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## LaRen616

_"Riel said she hopes her experience shows the public that it's not just certain kinds of dogs that can become aggressive."_

_"Please, please understand it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."_

I am glad that she said this.


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## JeffM

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> I wonder if the employee asked if she could pet the dog, or just leaned over the top of it and tried to pet it without permission? I hate when people automatically assume it's their right to pet any dog they come in contact with.


I believe she just leaned and assumed.




GregK said:


> In this neck of the woods dogs are allowed in a lot of Home Depots.




I think more places should be like that.


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## LaRen616

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> I wonder if the employee asked if she could pet the dog, or just leaned over the top of it and tried to pet it without permission? I hate when people automatically assume it's their right to pet any dog they come in contact with.


:thumbup:


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## KZoppa

i too wonder if she actually asked if she could pet the dog or if she just leaned over and started petting. Wouldnt blame the dog at all if she didnt ask permission.


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## KZoppa

LaRen616 said:


> _"Riel said she hopes her experience shows the public that it's not just certain kinds of dogs that can become aggressive."_
> 
> _"Please, please understand it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."_
> 
> I am glad that she said this.


 
i'm glad she did as well but you know that part will be completely glossed over.


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## selzer

People should not take aggressive dogs into non-dog places.
People should not pet ANY dog unless they ask permission. 

So many things are wrong on here. I particularly _like_ the fact that she said it isn't just pits and German shepherds that are nasty. Yay, we didn't even do it, but we get bashed. 

I feel sorry for the lady though. No one should have to go through reconstructive surgery because of a dog bite. Especially on the face. No one of ANY age, not just children. 

It is too bad we cannot euthanize the owner of the dog -- she seems like a real piece of work. Fighting the fine? Is she mad? If your dog is too small for the muzzle -- bull-- than you do not take them to a non-pet store and then not stop people BEFORE they get into range. 

I hate to see an order for someone to have a dog euthanized. If someone works, and works, and tries everything, and still cannot trust a dog, the dog is still a danger, yeah sometimes, they need to put the dog down. But when someone is ordered to put a dog down, that is usually just a failure on the part of the owner to train and socialize and manage her dog properly. I hope they tack on an order that she not be able to get any more dogs for a time frame. 

I know this is a small dog and an old lady. But it really does not matter. Old ladies cannot go around letting their dogs bite people. And small dog bites hurt too. No dog should be able to bite people indiscriminately. 

I am glad it was not a shepherd. The local government would not ban ****zu's no matter how many bites they rack up. But a disfiguring bite from a GSD? I just do not have much confidence in those making the laws these days.


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## x0emiroxy0x

She isn't going to let her kids pet _strange_ dogs, anymore??

Why would she or her kids pet a dog they didn't know in the first place.

I hate at petsmart when people walk by and reach at rockys head without asking me!

Now I'm using a head collar and people think it is a thing to keep him from biting... I haven't had a single person try to pet him since he started wearing it!! At the track a woman actually got 15 ft of the track to walk around us.

Oh well... They can think it's a muzzle all they want! Now we have peaceful trips to petsmart and only people who know what a head collar is for (and therefor usually know to ask to pet) interact with him.


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## Greydusk

Our Home Depot allows dogs, every once and awhile I'll take Blitz there to pick up garden supplies. 

If you're going to take your dog into a public place, you better make sure it's okay with people leaning over them/petting them/looking at them because it's going to happen. You can't trust the public to know how to behave appropriately around dogs. So if you know your dog is at risk of snapping because someone leaned over them, DON'T take them to a public venue for the safety of others and the safety of your dog.


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## Samba

I always am vigilant when taking dogs into stores. I don't shop when I have them with. Really want to expose them to the sights and sounds but it is no petfest for them. Our culture expects dogs to withstand all human stupidity or ignorance.


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## Lauri & The Gang

KZoppa said:


> i too wonder if she actually asked if she could pet the dog or if she just leaned over and started petting. Wouldnt blame the dog at all if she didnt ask permission.


I respectfully disagree.

If you take a dog into a PUBLIC place you better *KNOW* that dog will behave properly.

I once had a person reach through the passenger side window of our car and HUG Riggs (who was sitting in the front seat). While we were in the store (and watching out the window in shock).

People are stupid. They do stupid things without thinking. I refuse to put MY dog at risk by subjecting them to a potential situation that I KNOW they can't handle.

I would have NO qualms about taking Mauser to big public event.

I would NEVER take Sasha. It wuold be setting her up for failure and that would be *MY* fault - not the fault of the person that tried to pet her without asking.


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## 4TheDawgies

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If you take a dog into a PUBLIC place you better *KNOW* that dog will behave properly.
> 
> I once had a person reach through the passenger side window of our car and HUG Riggs (who was sitting in the front seat). While we were in the store (and watching out the window in shock).
> 
> People are stupid. They do stupid things without thinking. I refuse to put MY dog at risk by subjecting them to a potential situation that I KNOW they can't handle.
> 
> I would have NO qualms about taking Mauser to big public event.
> 
> I would NEVER take Sasha. It wuold be setting her up for failure and that would be *MY* fault - not the fault of the person that tried to pet her without asking.


COULDN'T agree more with this post. I wish more people had the common sense to make these decisions for their dogs.


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## selzer

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If you take a dog into a PUBLIC place you better *KNOW* that dog will behave properly.
> *
> I once had a person reach through the passenger side window of our car and HUG Riggs (who was sitting in the front seat). While we were in the store (and watching out the window in shock).
> 
> People are stupid* . They do stupid things without thinking. I refuse to put MY dog at risk by subjecting them to a potential situation that I KNOW they can't handle.
> 
> I would have NO qualms about taking Mauser to big public event.
> 
> I would NEVER take Sasha. It wuold be setting her up for failure and that would be *MY* fault - not the fault of the person that tried to pet her without asking.


This is exactly why I have my dogs in crates in the back of my car. If someone leaned into my car and hugged my dog, I truly do not know what would happen. I certainly cannot take that chance. 

Because if you or me or many of the folks on this forum were in the jury, me and my dog might get off. We are dog people. The car is the my property, the dog might guard it. 

But we cannot guarantee that the judge or jury would be dog people. And we have to protect our dogs from the insanity that people think up to do.


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## spidermilk

I agree that aggressive dogs shouldn't be in public places. If the owner absolutely must go to an aggressive place (a park where people are in view for training, the vet) then the dog should wear a muzzle and the owner should be very clear about their dog's aggression (DO NOT PET MY DOG.).

I hope that all Home Depot Corporate keeps the dog policy up to each individual store. I take Dax to Home Depot all the time, it is right around the corner and I always need something. It is a great place to go on a rainy/cold day when I am sick of that kind of weather.


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## 4TheDawgies

spidermilk said:


> I hope that all Home Depot Corporate keeps the dog policy up to each individual store. I take Dax to Home Depot all the time, it is right around the corner and I always need something. It is a great place to go on a rainy/cold day when I am sick of that kind of weather.


I agree I hope Home Depot doesn't change this policy. 
I love taking my dogs into Home Depot for socialization to new sights and sounds as well as training. 

I love that Home Depot and Lowes allows us this opportunity. It enrages me that complete idiots ruin all the great opportunities we could have because they refuse to use their god given human brains.


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## Liesje

I agree with Lauri and Sue. As much as it peeves me when people are grabby with my dogs without asking permission, I would never take a nippy or aggressive dog into a public place. That's just a lose-lose situation for the dog, setting the dog up for failure. When I take a dog to the pet store or a place like Tractor Supply, I *expect* to be stopped and have people want to pet the dog, and I'd hope that they are polite and ask first. If my dog is not OK with this, I wouldn't take him/her inside that store.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

Oh, I definitely agree that aggressive dogs should not be taken to public places, but the fact that the employee was so clueless about randomly going up and petting strange dogs just rubbed me the wrong way.

I've had people continue to bother my dogs even when I've asked them not to. I usually end up taking my dogs and leaving.

Just an illustration at how stupid people can be: I was at a horse show and a friend's mare was in heat, plus she was cranky from showing all day. He put up a sign on the front of the stall saying, "Please don't pet me, I've had a bad day, I BITE!" A person came up, read the sign aloud, and then reached across the lead rope barrier my friend had put up to keep people away and HUGGED the mare, saying, "Oh, poor baby, you've had a bad day?" Guess what? The mare chomped down on the idiot's shoulder.


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## KZoppa

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If you take a dog into a PUBLIC place you better *KNOW* that dog will behave properly.
> 
> I once had a person reach through the passenger side window of our car and HUG Riggs (who was sitting in the front seat). While we were in the store (and watching out the window in shock).
> 
> People are stupid. They do stupid things without thinking. I refuse to put MY dog at risk by subjecting them to a potential situation that I KNOW they can't handle.
> 
> I would have NO qualms about taking Mauser to big public event.
> 
> I would NEVER take Sasha. It wuold be setting her up for failure and that would be *MY* fault - not the fault of the person that tried to pet her without asking.


 
i didnt mean the dog couldnt handle it. What i meant was if she first didnt ask to pet and simply did, and THEN leaned OVER the small dog, we all know how dogs can be when you lean over them, especially if they dont know you. Its not a smart thing to do. If she, even unintentionally made the dog nervous, i dont blame the dog for reacting if thats truly the case. HOWEVER, if the dog is aggressive or a fear biter in general, they shouldnt be out and about. I can take Shasta out in crowds and such but i wouldnt trust Riley to be able to handle it. The dogs owner is ultimately at fault because she failed to stop someone touching her dog without permission which resulted in the dog injuring someone.


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## KZoppa

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> Oh, I definitely agree that aggressive dogs should not be taken to public places, but the fact that the employee was so clueless about randomly going up and petting strange dogs just rubbed me the wrong way.
> 
> I've had people continue to bother my dogs even when I've asked them not to. I usually end up taking my dogs and leaving.
> 
> Just an illustration at how stupid people can be: I was at a horse show and a friend's mare was in heat, plus she was cranky from showing all day. He put up a sign on the front of the stall saying, "Please don't pet me, I've had a bad day, I BITE!" A person came up, read the sign aloud, and then reached across the lead rope barrier my friend had put up to keep people away and HUGGED the mare, saying, "Oh, poor baby, you've had a bad day?" Guess what? The mare chomped down on the idiot's shoulder.


 
yup. amazing how stupid people can be.


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## 4TheDawgies

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> Oh, I definitely agree that aggressive dogs should not be taken to public places, but the fact that the employee was so clueless about randomly going up and petting strange dogs just rubbed me the wrong way.
> 
> I've had people continue to bother my dogs even when I've asked them not to. I usually end up taking my dogs and leaving.
> 
> Just an illustration at how stupid people can be: I was at a horse show and a friend's mare was in heat, plus she was cranky from showing all day. He put up a sign on the front of the stall saying, "Please don't pet me, I've had a bad day, I BITE!" A person came up, read the sign aloud, and then reached across the lead rope barrier my friend had put up to keep people away and HUGGED the mare, saying, "Oh, poor baby, you've had a bad day?" Guess what? The mare chomped down on the idiot's shoulder.


WOW JUST WOW there are NO WORDS


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## selzer

For some reason the general public seems a bit more forgiving to horses then they are to dogs. 

I really do not care how clueless the lady is. She is not nearly as clueless as the owner who took the dog into the place in the first place and did not bother to stop the lady from petting the dog. 

If you bring your dog into a non-pet establishment people assume the dog is friendly. I am not suggesting they can step on it, or pick it up by a hind leg and get no reaction. But an ordinary pet, yes, even if the lady leaned over should not have resulted in a bite. 

If you have a dog that is new to you, or has some fear issues, and you need to socialize it. Take it to training classes, and take it to a pet-establishment, and be very careful not to overwhelm the dog and not to put people at risk. If that means leaving the dog in the car while you pick up and pay for what you want, and then bring the dog in, so be it. We must protect our dogs, our breed, dogs in general by not contributing to the number of dog-bites that happen every year.


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## Jax's Mom

> "Now I'm going to find a lawyer because I'm not letting her get away with that," Riel said.


Lawyer for what?? Your medical bills are paid for by what I can only assume were my tax dollars seeing as you're 39, work at Home Depot and have 3 kids. You were injured at work, you will be compensated. Stop watching Judge Judy.



> The 39-year-old mother of three said she's relieved a child wasn't bitten.


Oh stop with the child card. When I injure myself doing something stupid, I don't play martyr that at least it wasn't a child.



> "I'm happy it was me and not my little girl. We pet dogs all the time. There will be no more petting dogs we don't know *from here on in*."


This is what it took to come to that brilliant conclusion?



> "Please, please understand it's not *only* the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be *just as nasty* and that's what's deceiving."


I'm so glad you propogated 3 more of you, madam, you're a credit to society.


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## WarrantsWifey

> "Please, please understand *it's not only* the* pit bulls* and* German shepherds *and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."


I have not once in my life heard GSD's put in the same dangerous category first hand like that. I have yet to meet ONE mean GSD or "nasty" one none the less. I bet she contributes to the dog ignorance with that statement! :-/ That makes me upset.


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## DharmasMom

I am so tired of people not accepting responsibility for their actions. We have become a wussy country where it is always someone else's fault if we get hurt and never ours no matter how stupid we were being. It has gotten completely ridiculous. That stupid women leaned over and stuck her face into a strange dog's face. I'm sorry you deserve to get bitten for doing something that freaking dumb. They don't deserve to be mollycoddled and they sure don't deserve money to reward them for there stupidity.

If the dog had lept out of the basket, chased the women down and eaten her face then I would totally agree with her. However she is the direct cause of her actions and she should be thankful it wasn't worse and she isn't eligible for a Darwin Award because at the rate of her stupidity that isn't far behind.


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## selzer

In the twenty years between 1979 and 1999 I think, there were 66 deaths due to pitts, 33 to Rotties, and 17 to GSDs. 

Sorry, but there certainly ARE mean GSDs. There are STUPID GSD owners and terrible breeders and aggression in GSDs can be a real problem. In fact, I would EXPECT a GSD to bite a human quicker than a pit bull, if you are looking at why they were bred in the first place. 

"The Evil that men do lives after them, the good is often interred with their bones..." William Shakespeare. 

And how true is that? You can have a thousand or more military and police dogs, hundreds of seeing eye dogs, hundreds more of search and rescue dogs and therapy dogs that are German Shepherds. But one dog that bites the mailman, or the some kid sledding, and what will people remember?


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## LARHAGE

Agree, I have multiple dogs and never take my Chihuahua or Cairn Terrier into public places, they just don't like strangers and I don't want to force the issue on them, they run errands with me and stay in the car, my Jack Russell is the opposite, a squiggly, stump wagging goof ball, he loves people so he gets to go to the stores, parks and such, Gavin my Shepherd is like my Jack, loves people, he actually EXPECTS to be pet by everyone and doesn't understand if someone doesn't stop to pet him!


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## Jax's Mom

selzer said:


> In the twenty years between 1979 and 1999 I think, there were 66 deaths due to pitts, 33 to Rotties, and 17 to GSDs.


Care to hazard a guess in that time, how many children have been killed by their own parents? LOL

We should ban parents.


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## Mrs.K

Jax's Mom said:


> Care to hazard a guess in that time, how many children have been killed by their own parents? LOL
> 
> We should ban parents.


Would be interesting to see a statistic about that.


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## LARHAGE

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> Oh, I definitely agree that aggressive dogs should not be taken to public places, but the fact that the employee was so clueless about randomly going up and petting strange dogs just rubbed me the wrong way.
> 
> I've had people continue to bother my dogs even when I've asked them not to. I usually end up taking my dogs and leaving.
> 
> Just an illustration at how stupid people can be: I was at a horse show and a friend's mare was in heat, plus she was cranky from showing all day. He put up a sign on the front of the stall saying, "Please don't pet me, I've had a bad day, I BITE!" A person came up, read the sign aloud, and then reached across the lead rope barrier my friend had put up to keep people away and HUGGED the mare, saying, "Oh, poor baby, you've had a bad day?" Guess what? The mare chomped down on the idiot's shoulder.


 
I have a Saddlebred that is a horrible biter, at shows we actually had a CAUTION HORSE BITES sign, and roped off the section in front of his stall with the yellow police line tape, one day I came back to the stall and this idiot is wiping the back of his head off with a hankie, smeared blood all over it, I knew what happened, but he thought the horse was just misunderstood!!!!  I told him the horse had been biting since he was weaned, idiot!!!!! He didn't need a freaking horse whisperer!!!


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## selzer

DharmasMom said:


> I am so tired of people not accepting responsibility for their actions. We have become a wussy country where it is always someone else's fault if we get hurt and never ours no matter how stupid we were being. It has gotten completely ridiculous. That stupid women leaned over and stuck her face into a strange dog's face. I'm sorry you deserve to get bitten for doing something that freaking dumb. They don't deserve to be mollycoddled and they sure don't deserve money to reward them for there stupidity.
> 
> If the dog had lept out of the basket, chased the women down and eaten her face then I would totally agree with her. However she is the direct cause of her actions and she should be thankful it wasn't worse and she isn't eligible for a Darwin Award because at the rate of her stupidity that isn't far behind.


She is not as stupid as the woman who had the dog in the store and did not bother to stop the lady from petting it. 

If I see a dog at a day care center running around with the children, I am going to think the dog is friendly. I might even lean over and pet it. 

If I see a dog is a public place that is not a pet-oriented business I will probably think the dog is well socialized and good with all types of people. I will ask to pet it, because I am a dog owner and do stuff like that. 

Not every person out there is a dog-person. Even people who own dogs. If their dogs are happy, well-adjusted dogs that have never had a people-aggressive moment -- most dogs, they will not think twice about petting someone's dogs. 

Those of us who have formidable breeds, breeds that get targeted by insurance companies because our dogs have the power and in a lot of cases the thresholds to do serious injuries to people, we have a better understanding of interesting dogs. Little dog people are at a disadvantage. Generally their dogs, even when they do act up, do not do a whole lot of damage. Most people forgive them because of their size, and their owners make excuses for them, and do not feel that they need training. So when their dogs bite someone, it is ALWAYS the fault of the person being bitten. With our dogs, unless they are police dogs in the act of apprehending someone, it seems like it is ALWAYS the dog's fault. 

I think that if it is within her rights to do so, she should persue legal action against the dog owner. The dog should not have been brought into the store if it is that aggressive. It is possible that the dog has never been in any situation where it has aggressed before, and I think that in a court of law, that can be a factor in the defense of the old lady and her dog. Then she would not have known her animal would have acted thus.


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## selzer

Jax's Mom said:


> Care to hazard a guess in that time, how many children have been killed by their own parents? LOL
> 
> We should ban parents.


Where exactly did this come from? Who is saying we should ban dogs. 

I was answering this quote by WarrantsWifey:

" I have not once in my life heard GSD's put in the same dangerous category first hand like that. I have yet to meet ONE mean GSD or "nasty" one none the less. I bet she contributes to the dog ignorance with that statement! :-/ That makes me upset."

But denying that GSDs can be mean or "nasty" is just as dangerous in my opinion. We have large dogs that need training and socialization, otherwise there very well can be a problem with aggression. And with the more fearful dogs the likelihood of biting goes up even farther. For us to close our eyes and ears to the idea of GSDs being potentially dangerous is welcoming trouble.

I did not like how she lumped pits and GSDs into her statements concerning the incident. Both of our breeds get enough bad press on our own actions.


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## ponyfarm

Whatever...people need to use common sense and there is a reason those little dogs are called , well, you know the name!! Good thing they don't wiegh 80lbs!!


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## selzer

anklebiters?


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## DharmasMom

selzer said:


> She is not as stupid as the woman who had the dog in the store and did not bother to stop the lady from petting it.
> 
> If I see a dog at a day care center running around with the children, I am going to think the dog is friendly. I might even lean over and pet it.
> 
> If I see a dog is a public place that is not a pet-oriented business I will probably think the dog is well socialized and good with all types of people. I will ask to pet it, because I am a dog owner and do stuff like that.
> 
> Not every person out there is a dog-person. Even people who own dogs. If their dogs are happy, well-adjusted dogs that have never had a people-aggressive moment -- most dogs, they will not think twice about petting someone's dogs.
> 
> Those of us who have formidable breeds, breeds that get targeted by insurance companies because our dogs have the power and in a lot of cases the thresholds to do serious injuries to people, we have a better understanding of interesting dogs. Little dog people are at a disadvantage. Generally their dogs, even when they do act up, do not do a whole lot of damage. Most people forgive them because of their size, and their owners make excuses for them, and do not feel that they need training. So when their dogs bite someone, it is ALWAYS the fault of the person being bitten. With our dogs, unless they are police dogs in the act of apprehending someone, it seems like it is ALWAYS the dog's fault.
> 
> I think that if it is within her rights to do so, she should persue legal action against the dog owner. The dog should not have been brought into the store if it is that aggressive. It is possible that the dog has never been in any situation where it has aggressed before, and I think that in a court of law, that can be a factor in the defense of the old lady and her dog. Then she would not have known her animal would have acted thus.


 

In those situations you are ASSUMING things. And you know what they say about assuming right? Never assume. Don't assume that the man behind you in the grocery store in friendly, don't assume that the woman that comes to your door late at night really does just need to use the phone, don't assume that coffee isn't hot and don't assume that the cute little dog in the basket is friendly- I don't care if you see it at Disney World. And it is time people stop assuming things and start being a little smarter about the world around them and taking responsibilty for their actions. If we really are supposed to be the smartest species it's time we act like it and quit blaming others for our faults. 

As dog owners, absolutely we have a responsiblity to train, socialize and take care with our dogs. But society has gotten out of control when a person can approach a dog and take and action that MANY dogs perceive as aggressive and be held completely blameless when the dog reacts. I would totally agree with you if the dog had acted unprovoked. but you know as well as I do that sticking your face into a strange dog's face is seen by many dogs as hostile. And the old lady may not have had time to speak up. I have had idiots approach Dharma so fast I have practically choked her getting her out of their way and old people do not have the reaction times that younger people do.


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## EchoGSD

Why was the dog in the store to begin with? This entire debacle could have been prevented if the owner had left her dog at home. I love my dogs, and they go with me to many places, but I do not walk them past "NO DOGS" signs and then refuse to be responsible for their behavior. Poor dog.


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## DharmasMom

I agree, she shouldn't have had the dog in the store to begin with. There is plenty of blame to go around. I am just tired of people letting the women who got bit off the hook and holding her blameless.


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## ponyfarm

selzer said:


> anklebiters?


No, a name that is not appropriate on the forum!! And , hey, I had a schutz/poo and he was pretty fun!


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## selzer

DharmasMom said:


> In those situations you are ASSUMING things. And you know what they say about assuming right? Never assume. Don't assume that the man behind you in the grocery store in friendly, don't assume that the woman that comes to your door late at night really does just need to use the phone, don't assume that coffee isn't hot and don't assume that the cute little dog in the basket is friendly- I don't care if you see it at Disney World. And it is time people stop assuming things and start being a little smarter about the world around them and taking responsibilty for their actions. If we really are supposed to be the smartest species it's time we act like it and quit blaming others for our faults.
> 
> As dog owners, absolutely we have a responsiblity to train, socialize and take care with our dogs. But society has gotten out of control when a person can approach a dog and take and action that MANY dogs perceive as aggressive and be held completely blameless when the dog reacts. I would totally agree with you if the dog had acted unprovoked. but you know as well as I do that sticking your face into a strange dog's face is seen by many dogs as hostile. And the old lady may not have had time to speak up. I have had idiots approach Dharma so fast I have practically choked her getting her out of their way and old people do not have the reaction times that younger people do.


DharmasMom, 

If your dog is reactive, and you cannot control it, do not take it into a public place with out a muzzle. 

If you have a dog that might bite in this situation, do not take your dog into this situation. 

We cannot protect ourselves from every stupid action that someone might do with our dogs. But bending over to pet the dog SHOULD not cause a bite. 

5 and 6 year old kids often get bitten by dogs because they are right at eye level with the dogs and will stare into their eyes. This is true. But is there ANY breeder on this site that would breed a dog after such an incident? It is NOT indicative of good character/temperament. If you have a dog like this, it is the OWNER's responsibility to protect it from what it might do. 

Just because a lot of little dogs are poorly managed and turn into biters does not mean that is acceptable or normal behavior. People with such dogs need to muzzle them or leave them at home. 

Have I had people look at my dogs in the face? -- yes. 
Have I had people come out of nowhere and pet them? -- yes. 
Has some little five/six year old child actually snuck up behind me in line and give a full body hug to my parent's GSD, Cujo? -- yes. 

Has anyone of these lunged at the person or tried to bite them? No. I was maybe lucky. It is rare that anyone gets near enough to pet without my permission. 

A dog that bites first and asks questions later is a liability, regardless of the circumstances.

I see this as 99% or better the owner's fault. The victim should have been trained to tell the woman to take her dog out of the store, or to ask if she should pet it.


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## 1sttimeforgsd

My opinion, yes I have one is that if a pet is inside of your car with the window down enough for one to get air, some fool reaches inside and gets bitten then he is at fault. The laws need to be changed so that ones property is not to be entered without permission from the owner and that goes for homes and yards.

There was a case here in my hometown a few years back where a young child (pre-school) lost its life to a pit bull. Signs were posted on the property, on the door, and the door to the home was shut. The mother of the child had been told by the owner NOT to ever enter the home. Well guess what the mother opened the door and the child entered with a sucker in her mouth and for whatever reason the dog mauled the child. The owner of the pitt bull is now serving time in prison because the dog killed the child. The mother of the child was not found to be of any fault. The dog was put down.

I so wish that little child had not been killed, but at the same time I do not feel the owner of the dog should have been held responsible for the stupidity of the childs mother and sent to prison. The laws are just wrong.


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## KZoppa

karen thats awful to hear that happened. But i agree with you. Signs were posted, clear warnings given. The owner should not be at fault if someone enters their property without permission and gets hurt or worse, like in this case. I'm sad that the child died because his mother didnt listen.


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## Jax's Mom

selzer said:


> Where exactly did this come from? Who is saying we should ban dogs.


I just said we should ban parents... Banning, of course, is obvious solution to any problem


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## Jax's Mom

Mrs.K said:


> Would be interesting to see a statistic about that.





> According to the American Anthropological Association, more than 200 women kill their children in the United States each year. Three to five children a day are killed by their parents. Homicide is one of the leading causes of death of children under age four, yet we continue to "persist with the unrealistic view that this is rare behavior," says Jill Korbin, expert on child abuse, who has studied mothers who killed their children.


...and yet no one walks around saying "all mothers are vicious and turn on their children."


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## selzer

Wow, that is awful. How did the woman/child enter the property? Was the door unlocked, did the kid just wander up and in there?

Dogs are considered an attractive nuisance. Children see the doggy and are attracted to it. An aggressive dog cannot just be left chained, because a kid can walk over to it and be eaten. Kind of like swimming pools, you have to have a fence around them, to keep children for killing themselves.

In Ohio, if you have properly secured your dog, you cannot be held criminally negligent. But if a four year old can get in and get to your dog, well, I think that would fall under the heading of not properly securing the dog. If, on the other hand, the woman picked the lock and then sent the four year old in there to be mauled to death, she should have been convicted and should be sitting in jail now. In Ohio, if a dog bites someone while they are committing a crime, the dog cannot be labeled dangerous. In both cases though, people can still sue. They may not win, but they can sue.

The story as told is pretty simple. I think we are missing some crucial details, like the guy with the pit bull ASKED the lady to go into the house and take care of the dog or something that would make her go inside there.


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## Lauri & The Gang

EchoGSD said:


> Why was the dog in the store to begin with? This entire debacle could have been prevented if the owner had left her dog at home. I love my dogs, and they go with me to many places, but I do not walk them past "NO DOGS" signs and then refuse to be responsible for their behavior. Poor dog.


Some Home Depots DO allow people to bring their dogs in with them. As well as other stores and bars.

If someone takes their dog into a place of public access - like a store or bar - I expect a MINIMUM level of acceptable behavior from said dog. Like not trying to bite people just for leaning over it.


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## selzer

200? How many mothers are there in the US? How many million or is it billion. 200 is really a pretty low figure. There are 82.8 million mothers in the united states, so that is, 100 out of 41.4 million, 10 out of 4.14 million and 1 out of 414,000 mothers actually kill their kid. 

So lets ban all mothers because of 1 out of 414000 manage to kill the kid. Ok.

I think you may have better odds of being killed by a dog.


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## Franksmom

DharmasMom said:


> I am so tired of people not accepting responsibility for their actions. We have become a wussy country where it is always someone else's fault if we get hurt and never ours no matter how stupid we were being. It has gotten completely ridiculous. That stupid women leaned over and stuck her face into a strange dog's face. I'm sorry you deserve to get bitten for doing something that freaking dumb. They don't deserve to be mollycoddled and they sure don't deserve money to reward them for there stupidity.
> 
> If the dog had lept out of the basket, chased the women down and eaten her face then I would totally agree with her. However she is the direct cause of her actions and she should be thankful it wasn't worse and she isn't eligible for a Darwin Award because at the rate of her stupidity that isn't far behind.


I agree, doesn't matter if the owner gave permission or not, sticking your face close enough to any size strange dog to where you're with in range of it's teeth is dumb.
Leaning over any dog is not the way to greet a strange dog it can be taken as a threat by the dog, and any dog could react to that. 

I'm constantly amazed by people when I'm out with Frank that ask to pet him and then procede to try to lean straight into his face as close as they can get to him even trying to give him kisses. Of course I stop them and explain that, that is not they way you pet or meet a strange dog. but people have actually anwered "Oh he's a nice dog he wont' bite". 

I dont' think people with known aggressive dogs should take them in public because you're just putting the dog in a bad situation. where it could fail and get into big trouble, but if you ask to pet a strange dog you must pet the dog in a safe way or take on the responsibility of what happens.


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## selzer

Lets see roughly 75 million children, 34 killed by dog in 2010 -- not necessarily all children. 

So lets see 3.4 out of 7.5 million, approximately 1 in 2.5 million kids is killed by a dog assuming 4 of those deaths were adults, yup assumption -- it makes the math easier. 

So you do have a better chance of getting killed by your mother.


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## selzer

Franksmom said:


> I agree, doesn't matter if the owner gave permission or not, sticking your face close enough to any size strange dog to where you're with in range of it's teeth is dumb.
> Leaning over any dog is not the way to greet a strange dog it can be taken as a threat by the dog, and any dog could react to that.
> 
> I'm constantly amazed by people when I'm out with Frank that ask to pet him and then procede to try to lean straight into his face as close as they can get to him even trying to give him kisses. Of course I stop them and explain that, that is not they way you pet or meet a strange dog. but people have actually anwered "Oh he's a nice dog he wont' bite".
> 
> I dont' think people with known aggressive dogs should take them in public because you're just putting the dog in a bad situation. where it could fail and get into big trouble, *but if you ask to pet a strange dog you must pet the dog in a safe way or take on the responsibility of what happens*.



I hope you never have to win that one in court.

I am sorry, if your dog needs to be petted a certain way, you better not tell strangers it is ok to pet them. Or you better explain it before hand, and be ready to act. 

If you tell me I can pet your dog, and your dog bites me for doing so, then you are liable, and very likely, you have just murdered your dog too.


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## CassandGunnar

I guess I fall somewhere in the middle.
I agree that people shouldn't lean over and "lead with their face" when meeting a strange dog. However, I don't think that a dog should react and bite someone in the face for doing so.
Most people would agree that if you have any doubt about how your dog reacts in public, don't put them in a situation where something like this can happen.
I don't blame the dog or the owner in this instance, but I don't think that the lady deserved to be bitten.
I guess for me, it sort of falls into the same category as the whole "off leash" argument. If you don't have 100% faith in your dogs recall, don't take them off lead.

As unfortunate as the whole thing is, I hate to see the dog suffer for something the owner did. I also hate that someone got bitten, but that person "knew, or should have known" that her actions could cause her to get bitten.


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## selzer

I am not saying how it ought to be, but how it is. 

How it ought to be does not matter when how it is is an order to euthanize your dog. 

We must protect our dogs people. A ****zu might get away with a bite like that, but our dogs have much less chance of that.


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## selzer

I was NOT raised with GSDs. We had mutts. We had a schnauser mutt, a beagle mix, a gsd/hound mix, and then for 15 years, Pip, the English Setter. 

My parents NEVER taught me to stand still instead of running from a dog. They NEVER taught me out to pet one, other than offering your hand and letting the dog sniff it. Next step was to put the hand over the top of the head and pet the dog. WooHoo! 

People who do not have dogs that are likely to bite people do NOT have a clue. They do not teach this crap in school folks. My parents probably did tell us not to go up to a strange dog -- does that mean we listened??? Not on your life. And when we were bitten, we did not tell our parents because we didn't listen to them. 

Taking a dangerous dog into public, and yes, that is a dog that will react, is a liability. If you do not have control, then muzzle the dog or leave it at home.


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## Jax's Mom

As this happened in Ontario, most of us can guess the outcome. 
We have the Dog Owners Liability Act. It states that if your dog bites someone, unless that person was on your property to engage in a criminal act, you're liable. It doesn't matter if the person was leaning, or taunting or you said it was safe or unsafe, you're responsible if the dog bites.


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## Franksmom

selzer said:


> I hope you never have to win that one in court.
> 
> I am sorry, if your dog needs to be petted a certain way, you better not tell strangers it is ok to pet them. Or you better explain it before hand, and be ready to act.
> 
> If you tell me I can pet your dog, and your dog bites me for doing so, then you are liable, and very likely, you have just murdered your dog too.


I'm not saying my dog has to be petted a certain way, in fact I think he would take being mugged by a stranger and never react, but I'm not going to let that happen. I feel that is setting him up for something to happen.
All I'm saying is if you ask to pet a dog you have to take some responsibiltiy in how you pet the dog. Leaning over or getting in a strange dogs face is not the right way to do it.


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## selzer

Yupp, that is how it is.

We are responsible for our dogs' action and their protection.


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## selzer

Franksmom said:


> I'm not saying my dog has to be petted a certain way, in fact I think he would take being mugged by a stranger and never react, but I'm not going to let that happen. I feel that is setting him up for something to happen.
> All I'm saying is if you ask to pet a dog you have to take some responsibiltiy in how you pet the dog. Leaning over or getting in a strange dogs face is not the right way to do it.


If someone TELLS you that is ok to pet their dog, unless they QUALIFY that by telling you exactly how to pet their dog, it better not bite you.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

Sometimes the kids are smarter than the parents.

I was at a dog show a couple of years ago. A mother was encouraging her son to pet one of the show dogs... the handler did not notice and was talking to someone else at the time. 

Mother: "That's a pretty dog, Mikey, why don't you pet it?"
Kid: "Mommy, should I ask first?"
Mother: "No! Of course not. If it wasn't a nice dog, it wouldn't be here at the show!"

*headdesk*


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## Jax's Mom

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> Sometimes the kids are smarter than the parents.


kids are born with SO much more common sense than we give them credit for and then shortly beat out of them with helmets and antibiotics.


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## robinhuerta

YOUR dog.....YOUR liability.
I don't care how stupid, ignorant or defensive a human being is around YOUR dog .....IF it reacts aggressive in any manner.....it is YOUR liability.
If YOU take YOUR dog to a PUBLIC place....YOU are responsible for any and all actions of your pet....period.
JMO


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## Rott-n-GSDs

Jax's Mom said:


> kids are born with SO much more common sense than we give them credit for and then shortly beat out of them with helmets and antibiotics.


Oh definitely! We were in Petco with our dogs once when two little boys came up and asked if they could pet Apollo, our Rottweiler. The boys were just loving on Apollo and he was soaking up the attention, when their mom came around the next aisle, SCREAMED bloody murder, and RAN at the kids and dog, grabbing onto the kids and pulling them away from the "killer" Rottweiler. 

Apollo just looked surprised with an expression that said, "What the heck is wrong with HER?!?"


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## Good_Karma

Well, I see it this way. Never, EVER has Niko given any indication he would ever bite someone. At most he barks at people until he relaxes and is allowed to sniff them, at which point he generally loses interest in them unless they have treats. He desperately needs more socialization. But I will NEVER take him into a store because I cannot risk the CHANCE that he might bite someone. And he does frighten people with his barking. So we would not be welcome in any store regardless. 

Rosa is quiet, not a barker when she is nervous. She is okay to go into stores. She doesn't want to meet people either, and will hide behind my legs if approached. I just tell people she is shy and I'm sorry but they cannot pet her. usually they have already gotten that message since she's hidden behind me upon their approach. 

My point is that you have to know your dog, and take responsibility for what he is capable of. I'm 99% sure Niko would never bite anyone. That 1% is what keeps us out of stores.


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## carmspack

We are giving conflicting messages. 
On one hand we are devising ways to get a reserved pup to go out and be friendly with strangers, involving strangers to feed the dog . 
On the other hand we are saying don't go petting every dog.

The dog , as I heard it on the radio was in a purse or some sort of bag. The employee stuck her face into the dogs and chompl
There is a need for some people to go around kissing dogs -- we have a advert that comes up all the time on this forum , some woman holding a jack russell pup some inches away from her puckered lips -- don't worry about the dogs bad breath with xyzabc . 

Give dogs their space and respect .

Carmen


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## Miikkas mom

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If you take a dog into a PUBLIC place you better *KNOW* that dog will behave properly.
> 
> I once had a person reach through the passenger side window of our car and HUG Riggs (who was sitting in the front seat). While we were in the store (and watching out the window in shock).
> 
> People are stupid. They do stupid things without thinking. I refuse to put MY dog at risk by subjecting them to a potential situation that I KNOW they can't handle.
> 
> I would have NO qualms about taking Mauser to big public event.
> 
> I would NEVER take Sasha. It wuold be setting her up for failure and that would be *MY* fault - not the fault of the person that tried to pet her without asking.


 :thumbup: I agree 100%!


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## selzer

robinhuerta said:


> YOUR dog.....YOUR liability.
> I don't care how stupid, ignorant or defensive a human being is around YOUR dog .....IF it reacts aggressive in any manner.....it is YOUR liability.
> If YOU take YOUR dog to a PUBLIC place....YOU are responsible for any and all actions of your pet....period.
> JMO


:thumbup:

Thinking that way, will keep YOUR dog safe.


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## AgileGSD

LaRen616 said:


> _"Please, please understand it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."_
> 
> I am glad that she said this.


 You're glad she said "pit bulls and German Shepherds and big dogs" are nasty? A much more appropriate statement would have been regarding how stupid it is to stick your face into a strange dog's face...


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## selzer

carmspack said:


> We are giving conflicting messages.
> On one hand we are devising ways to get a reserved pup to go out and be friendly with strangers, involving strangers to feed the dog .
> On the other hand we are saying don't go petting every dog.
> 
> The dog , as I heard it on the radio was in a purse or some sort of bag. The employee stuck her face into the dogs and chompl
> There is a need for some people to go around kissing dogs -- we have a advert that comes up all the time on this forum , some woman holding a jack russell pup some inches away from her puckered lips -- don't worry about the dogs bad breath with xyzabc .
> 
> Give dogs their space and respect .
> 
> Carmen


Yes we are. We are saying go out and socialize your dog. Turn people into human treat factories. Have STRANGERS pet your dog. 

But we are also saying that IF your dog bites a stranger, then you are liable. So if you are not sure that he will not do not take him into certain situations. 

There are ways to socialize and ways not to socialize.

When I socialize puppies/young dogs, and I am not perfect and do not lay claim to have the best or only method, but I do the following:

1. One dog, and me. That is it. My attention is on the dog. My attention is not on what I am going to buy. Just the dog. 

2. I pay attention to the dog, so I do not overwhelm the dog.

3. I look at who is asking to pet my dog. If there are several children, if they do not ask, if it looks chaotic, I say no. 

4. If I think someone will be ok, I explain what I want them to do. Let her come up to you, and sniff you hand, scratch her under your chin. 

5. Often I say, "Say Hello." The dog steps forward and sniffs the hand and then then I say Good Girl! The interview is over, and that is all I expect from her. 

6. When I feel like we are still doing good, we are done and leave. Then we go out to dinner at the Boston Market and I share with them. (to save gas, I bring two, but work individually. 

Works good. 

If my dog needs space, I make sure they have it.


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## TriadGSD

the Article did say no pets allowed on the door


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## lisgje

Why the heck did she have her face so close to the dog's mouth that it could do that in the first place? The owner and the HD employee are both at fault here. The owner for not being able to control her dog and the employee for just being plain stupid. Even if someone says I can pet their dog, I NEVER put my face anywhere near the dog's mouth. That is just plain idiotic. Where is her sign? LOL


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## GregK

Jax's Mom said:


> Lawyer for what?? Your medical bills are paid for by what I can only assume were my tax dollars seeing as you're 39, work at Home Depot and have 3 kids. You were injured at work, you will be compensated. Stop watching Judge Judy.


Exactly!!! Why does she have to run out and find a 'slip and fall' lawyer right away!!???


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## Samba

It looks to me like [email protected] store was not following the policy. The Greeter didn't seem to be adhering to store policy as she was welcoming to the dog, albeit too welcoming.


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## Dainerra

I don't think our Home Depot will stop allowing dogs. They tried it last year and all the contractors revolted and went across the street to Lowes.

The whole story is sad though. Simple common sense would have kept everyone safe


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## liv

On the national news "The company said Thursday it has announced the ban at its stores across the country and will implement the new policy over the next few weeks in the interests of employee and customer safety." Home Depot bans pets after dog bites greeter's nose - CTV News


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## Dainerra

DharmasMom said:


> In those situations you are ASSUMING things. And you know what they say about assuming right? Never assume. Don't assume that the man behind you in the grocery store in friendly, don't assume that the woman that comes to your door late at night really does just need to use the phone, don't assume that coffee isn't hot and don't assume that the cute little dog in the basket is friendly- I don't care if you see it at Disney World. And it is time people stop assuming things and start being a little smarter about the world around them and taking responsibilty for their actions. If we really are supposed to be the smartest species it's time we act like it and quit blaming others for our faults.
> .


your Disney analogy cracked me up. When he worked Security, a tourist was videotaping their little boy (about 4 years old) feeding a sandwich to the local wildlife. Yeah, it was a gator and the little boy was walking right up to it in the median and his parents were encouraging him and videotaping the whole episode. When Security stopped them, they said "Oh it will be ok. It's a Disney gator"

The moral of the story? Never underestimate the stupidity of people


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## krystyne73

LaRen616 said:


> _"Riel said she hopes her experience shows the public that it's not just certain kinds of dogs that can become aggressive."_
> 
> _"Please, please understand it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."_
> 
> I am glad that she said this.


I have been bit by way more little yappy chi-chi dogs than any big dogs.


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## DharmasMom

robinhuerta said:


> YOUR dog.....YOUR liability.
> I don't care how stupid, ignorant or defensive a human being is around YOUR dog .....IF it reacts aggressive in any manner.....it is YOUR liability.
> If YOU take YOUR dog to a PUBLIC place....YOU are responsible for any and all actions of your pet....period.
> JMO



I would totally agree with you IF the woman had been minding her own business and the dog had jumped out of the basket and gnawed her nose off. But she wasn't and the dog didn't. The woman stuck her face in the dogs face WITHOUT asking permission or asking if the dog was friendly. 

I don't think anyone should enter a dog's personal space without permission. I sure as heck don't want strangers to enter MY personal space without permission. If some random stranger walked up to me in the store and stuck their face in mine and started touching me, odds are good they are getting an elbow to the nose or a knee in the 'nads.

It's time we stopped giving passes to stupid people who act without thinking of the consequences. We are supposed to be the ones that are more highly evolved, smarter, able to problem solve and put consequences to our actions so it is time to start holding people to a standard that proves that we are. It is ridiculous that we expect 4 legged creatures with supposedly less evolved brains to show better judgment then the supposedly smarter human. And the argument that the person is just stupid or didn't know better is a weak one. That may be fine for a 4 year old but it doesn't wash for a grown adult. And if they honestly aren't smarter then the average dog and can't show better judgment then they need to probably start wearing a helmet and immediately stop breeding because they certainly aren't doing the collective gene pool any favors.


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## KZoppa

DharmasMom said:


> I would totally agree with you IF the woman had been minding her own business and the dog had jumped out of the basket and gnawed her nose off. But she wasn't and the dog didn't. The woman stuck her face in the dogs face WITHOUT asking permission or asking if the dog was friendly.
> 
> I don't think anyone should enter a dog's personal space without permission. I sure as heck don't want strangers to enter MY personal space without permission. If some random stranger walked up to me in the store and stuck their face in mine and started touching me, odds are good they are getting an elbow to the nose or a knee in the 'nads.
> 
> It's time we stopped giving passes to stupid people who act without thinking of the consequences. We are supposed to be the ones that are more highly evolved, smarter, able to problem solve and put consequences to our actions so it is time to start holding people to a standard that proves that we are. It is ridiculous that we expect 4 legged creatures with supposedly less evolved brains to show better judgment then the supposedly smarter human. And the argument that the person is just stupid or didn't know better is a weak one. That may be fine for a 4 year old but it doesn't wash for a grown adult. And if they honestly aren't smarter then the average dog and can't show better judgment then they need to probably start wearing a helmet and immediately stop breeding because they certainly aren't doing the collective gene pool any favors.


 
heck yeah and darn freaking right!


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## selzer

It is exactly this attitude, the excuses, the defensiveness, that causes people to fail their dogs, by letting them bite people. 

Do I not leave my dogs loose in my car with the windows down far enough for some jerk to put an arm in because I am afraid of being sued? Heck no. I am afraid of being sued, but I do not want my dogs to bite anyone EVER. 

I ask the vet to muzzle my dog if they are going to do something painful, because I do not want my dog to bite someone even if they are hurt. 

I do not want my dogs to have to bite a burglar or assailant either. Because I do not WANT them to bite anyone. 

I protect my dogs so that does not have to happen. 

If someone walks into my dog's path in a pet store, the first thing through my dog's mind is not going to be BITE that leg. If someone is walking backwards and talking to someone and walks into my dog, I certainly do not want my dog to take a chunk out of them. If a small child breaks free from their parent's grip and runs flat into my dog and kisses it in the face, I do not want the child to have to go through plastic surgery. 

You cannot ALWAYS protect your dog's space. But you can make them less protective of their space. And if you cannot, then you probably should muzzle your dog in public.


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## robinhuerta

The bottom line is.....the woman BROUGHT her dog to a PUBLIC place......HER liability. The PUBLIC did not go to HER place....
When (we) as dog owners CHOOSE to bring our pets to any public place...we are making the decision to be held accountable for OUR pets actions.
Purse, stroller, leash or even our arms.....if (we) bring them to the general public....we are responsible...not the general public.
*Stupid is as stupid does.....nothing will change that.


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## DharmasMom

It is not a matter of "letting" your dog bite someone. And I am not even talking about someone who accidentally bumps into a dog at Petsmart. A dog that can not tolerate that should not be out in public. 

I am talking about people who run up to, grab at, stick their face in a dog's face and start kissing on a dog that they don't know. Grown ups should know better and they should teach their kids to know better. And when they don't know better and they do something incredibly stupid the dog gets blamed. The person, who did the incredibly stupid thing, gets a pass. Even though they are supposed to be the smart ones. Where is the logic in that? Since when did we expect dogs to be smarter than and better behaved than humans? 

And in today's society people are getting more and more passes for bad judgments and stupid behavior. People are no longer responsible for their own actions. Like those 2 teenagers a few years ago that decided to taunt and tease the tiger at the zoo. One kid died and the other was injured. The parents wanted to blame the zoo instead of stepping up to the plate and realizing it was their kids' fault. No one had ever had a problem at the zoo before. Those boys decided to provoke a 600lb creature with very large teeth. Said creature decided to make them lunch. Last I heard the parents were going to sue. If I were the zoo owner, I would have sued the parents for the cost of the tiger since the tiger was killed in the ensuing melee. Again, no one wanted to hold those kids responsible for their actions. 

It's time we expect humans to act like the highly evolved creatures we like to claim we are.


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## Zoeys mom

I don't think any dog should be biting someone's face for being pet...sorry right or wrong that's just not an okay reaction. Your average person doesn't know squat about the body language they give off, or how to read a dog's- it was a simple mistake on this woman's part and having her nose bit partially off is not an equal consequence for her stupidity. The lady who brought the dog in had NO right to do so...obviously the dog is not stable and should not be introduced to the general public. I have a dog that would bite your face off and guess how many times she's been to HD? None!

If your dog is aggressive, has weak nerves, or a faulty temperament keep them away from the general public because they are a liability....not the lady trying to say hi. People naturally approach dogs in public it is a fact of living with a dog so it is the owners responsibility to prevent accidents from happening. When I see people about to approach us I yell she's not nice no petting please. When and if, but usually when they say oh she looks so nice I say she's not and walk the other direction. That is me taking responsibility for my nasty dog. This woman caused an injury that was pretty severe and I'm surprised so many blame the greeter who was greeting the dog.

Who cares how many kids she has or where she works....she has a job


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## robinhuerta

Dharma.....I don't disagree with being accountable for bad judgement....we face consequences in life for poor judgement.
Just like the Zoo incident.....the *general public* went into the tiger's space and taunted it....the tiger was not BROUGHT out to the general public.

By bringing our pets into the general public...WE...are the ones that are allowing our pets to be put in the situation of contact with the ignorance & lack of common sense of other humans...not vice verse.
Whether we want to face the facts or not......we are liable.


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## selzer

And, if I was facing reconstructive surgery, I might have a few choice things to say about the dog and the owner. 

I do not know about the zoo incident. But, kids are kids. They are stupid sometimes. It really should not be possible for a child to make contact with a tiger. People generally think that zoos are pretty safe places. They cater to three and four year olds. And honestly, I am busier watching the human animals at the zoo moreso than the wild animals. The wild animals are within enclosures that the kids cannot reach into or climb into. If that is not so, than a zoo ought to make it so. And are there no staff around making sure brats are not taunting the animals or getting themselves eaten? 

As for the disneyland crock, well that is a crock. No one that can both walk and breathe at the same time can believe that crocodiles are safe for a child to feed. Oh yeah, wasn't there some man that got killed and eaten not too long ago out swimming with the crocodiles. People do that. I guess there ARE people out there that cannot walk and breathe at the same time. But how does the general public get in side the enclosures with the animal? 

For my first ten years, I lived within walking distance to the Cleveland zoo. It was a hike, but we did it. I went with my siblings, I do not think I ever went with my parents. Not sure. Anyhow, if we got there between nine and ten, we got in free. If we got there after ten, we knew where the holes in the fence were so we still got in free. I do not remember even one close call with an animal. 

If a kid is able to fall into an animal enclosure, or is able to lean up so that the animal can attack through the bars, then the zoo is not being safety conscience enough. I can just hear my sister now:
Sue, I do not thing this a good idea...
Don't worry about it, they would never let us get this far in if it wasn't safe. 

I think that is true though. People think things MUST be safe if a zoo or amusement park allows it. People think a dog must be nice if it is out in a public place.


----------



## tierra nuestra

:thumbup:


Lauri & The Gang said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> If you take a dog into a PUBLIC place you better *KNOW* that dog will behave properly.
> 
> I once had a person reach through the passenger side window of our car and HUG Riggs (who was sitting in the front seat). While we were in the store (and watching out the window in shock).
> 
> People are stupid. They do stupid things without thinking. I refuse to put MY dog at risk by subjecting them to a potential situation that I KNOW they can't handle.
> 
> I would have NO qualms about taking Mauser to big public event.:thumbup:
> 
> I would NEVER take Sasha. It wuold be setting her up for failure and that would be *MY* fault - not the fault of the person that tried to pet her without asking.


----------



## DharmasMom

robinhuerta said:


> Dharma.....I don't disagree with being accountable for bad judgement....we face consequences in life for poor judgement.
> Just like the Zoo incident.....the *general public* went into the tiger's space and taunted it....the tiger was not BROUGHT out to the general public.
> 
> By bringing our pets into the general public...WE...are the ones that are allowing our pets to be put in the situation of contact with the ignorance & lack of common sense of other humans...not vice verse.
> Whether we want to face the facts or not......we are liable.




I agree with you, to an extent. If the dog gets loose and bites someone unprovoked then, absolutely, we should be held liable. But when someone gets in a dogs face WITHOUT asking if the dog is friendly THEY should be liable. People should and need to have the common sense to ask permission first. Society no longer requires people to have common sense and it is sad and more than a little scary.

We have a large amusement park here, Kings Dominion. It has a stand up roller coaster. The coaster has a double shoulder harness (one harness for each shoulder) and a lap bar. Back in the early 90's this young guy (20s?) decided it would be more exciting to ride it backwards. He had to REALLY work to get out of both sets of restraints and he did it while it was going uphill. Well, needless to say, it was the last thing he ever did. He was sucked out and pretty much decapitated when he hit a section of track below. Now, he paid the ultimate price for his stupidity but his parents sued the park and won (actually they settled). I had friends who worked there at the time so I heard all of the grisly details. Personally, I don't think the park should have settled, they weren't responsible for that idiot's lunacy. But again, he gets a pass and the park had to pay. 

At some point people need to stop being mollycoddled for being idiots. They need to start using their brains for something other than just preventing the wind from making noise through their heads. And this includes with dog bites. Common sense needs to be used. Are some dogs just nasty aggressive. Yes, I had a kid as a patient when I worked in the peds ER that was attacked by a GSD, a former K9 officer, no less. The kid was walking into his house with his mother when the dog broke loose from his owner/handler and came across the yard and grabbed the kid by the head. He pretty much scalped the kid and the kid had to go to surgery to have his scalp sewn back on. In that case, I blame the dog and the owner. No question. 

I fully agree dogs need to be socialized, socialized, socialized. But they are still just dogs. They don't rationalize and they don't understand consequences but people do. So yes, when people provoke them, whether intentional or not, I blame the people.


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## selzer

robinhuerta said:


> Dharma.....I don't disagree with being accountable for bad judgement....we face consequences in life for poor judgement.
> Just like the Zoo incident.....the *general public* went into the tiger's space and taunted it....the tiger was not BROUGHT out to the general public.
> 
> By bringing our pets into the general public...WE...are the ones that are allowing our pets to be put in the situation of contact with the ignorance & lack of common sense of other humans...not vice verse.
> Whether we want to face the facts or not......we are liable.


Yes, but, if a zoo, circus, amusement park brings a killer whale, tiger, lion, crocodile or elephant to where the public can view it, they need to keep the public safe from the animal. How can someone be smart enough to get past decent safety precautions and stupid enough to do it? I know that intelligence and common sense do not always go hand in hand. You cannot always idiot proof everything if the idiot is trying to get themselves killed.


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## Whiteshepherds

Jax's Mom said:


> Lawyer for what?? Your medical bills are paid for by what I can only assume were my tax dollars seeing as you're 39, work at Home Depot and have 3 kids. You were injured at work, you will be compensated. Stop watching Judge Judy.


Why are your tax dollars paying her medical bills?


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## DharmasMom

Whiteshepherds said:


> Why are your tax dollars paying her medical bills?


She is Canadian- socialized medicine.


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## robinhuerta

Selzer...my understanding in that article...is it happened after hours.
And the teenagers climbed over the safety rails and were taunting the tiger.
The tiger then.....scaled the side of the enclosure (which was not obviously tall enough), and he made it into the zoo...where he attacked the teenagers.
*I'm sure that I've forgotten some of the info....I can't recall everything.*
This is a situation...where BOTH parties involved are at partial liability.
The Zoo...for not having adequate enclosure for public & animal safety....and the teenagers themselves, for taunting the wild animal, breaking obvious rules & putting themselves in harms way.......a lose-lose situation.

When pet owners subject their pets to outside human interaction.....the owners are the ones making the "choice" for that animal and the situation.
*There will always be people who lack common sense....perhaps the pet owners should have enough of their own.*


----------



## GregK

liv said:


> On the national news "The company said Thursday it has announced the ban at its stores across the country and will implement the new policy over the next few weeks in the interests of employee and customer safety." Home Depot bans pets after dog bites greeter's nose - CTV News


 
You see now this is wrong. One person screws up and everyone else gets penalized.

How about just taking some precautions such as only service dogs and CGC certified dogs (do you have that in Canada?) would be allowed in the stores?


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## codmaster

GregK said:


> You see now this is wrong. One person screws up and everyone else gets penalized.
> 
> How about just taking some precautions such as only *service dogs and CGC certified* dogs (do you have that in Canada?) would be allowed in the stores?


 
One problem with that is "Can anyone really say that these dogs will never bite anyone?". I doubt it esp. since I think that "service dogs" are not 'certified' by anybody are they? I know that they now have the right to go anywhere, but I wonder if any of these dogs have bitten anyone?

And i personally know a couple of "CGC" (Canine Good Citizen?) dogs that are people aggressive - they passed the test as puppies and then "matured"!


----------



## GregK

DharmasMom said:


> And in today's society people are getting more and more passes for bad judgments and stupid behavior. People are no longer responsible for their own actions. Like those 2 teenagers a few years ago that decided to taunt and tease the tiger at the zoo. One kid died and the other was injured. The parents wanted to blame the zoo instead of stepping up to the plate and realizing it was their kids' fault. No one had ever had a problem at the zoo before. Those boys decided to provoke a 600lb creature with very large teeth. Said creature decided to make them lunch. Last I heard the parents were going to sue. If I were the zoo owner, I would have sued the parents for the cost of the tiger since the tiger was killed in the ensuing melee. Again, no one wanted to hold those kids responsible for their actions.
> 
> It's time we expect humans to act like the highly evolved creatures we like to claim we are.


What kind of complete moron taunts a 6oo pound Tiger???!!!!???? I just can't believe anyone would be that stupid!!


----------



## GregK

codmaster said:


> One problem with that is "Can anyone really say that these dogs will never bite anyone?". I doubt it esp. since I think that "service dogs" are not 'certified' by anybody are they? I know that they now have the right to go anywhere, but I wonder if any of these dogs have bitten anyone?
> 
> And i personally know a couple of "CGC" (Canine Good Citizen?) dogs that are people aggressive - they passed the test as puppies and then "matured"!


I never heard of a service dog biting anyone. Anything is possible though. Actually people should never pet a service dog while they're working.

The CGC system needs a bit of tweaking for sure. I think it should be harder to pass that it is now. Nonetheless, implementing that requirement as it is now still would weed out a lot of anti-social dogs.


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## Whiteshepherds

DharmasMom said:


> *But when someone gets in a dogs face WITHOUT asking if the dog is friendly* THEY should be liable. People should and need to have the common sense to ask permission first. Society no longer requires people to have common sense and it is sad and more than a little scary.


I agree that people don't always have common sense or take responsibility for their actions, but unfriendly dogs don't belong out in public unless they're wearing a muzzle. If a dog is that easily startled or frightened it needs to be kept home.


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## codmaster

I think there is a "presumption of friendly" when you bring a dog into a non dog store. if there is a chance that the dog will bite then they really don't belong in the store unless the owner can keep them away from the public.

No dog (size or breed doesn't matter!) should bite a small child if the child simply comes up to them! Period! Way too dangerous.


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## Zeusismydog

I think both parties need to share the blame. If you bring your dog into a public place you need to know how they are going to react to EVERYTHING. YOU are responsible to protect them, big dog, little dog, it doesn't matter. 

I don't think we have all the details of this story. We don't know if the greeter asked to pet the dog, we don't know how the greeter approached the dog, we don't know how attentive the owner was with the dog. We don't know if the dog ever showed aggression before, we don't know if the dog gave any type of warning (growling, trying to shrink away, etc) he was going to bite. We don't even know how close the greeter got to the dog before he bit her, and so on.

IMHO all these factor matter. It is sad this happened. I really don't think the dog deserves to be put down. I do think the owner needs to pay the fine. 

The things I do know about the dog/owner 1.The owner brought the dog into a public place 2.the owner allowed a person close enough to her dog for the dog to bite. 

So with these fact the owner is responsible.

What I know about the greeter 1. The greeter got close enough to a strange dogs face it bit her.

So the greeter is also responsible. 

If you are a greeter (being paid to welcome people) you should know the proper way to make people feel comfortable. Would you welcome some stranger giving you a big bear hug and a kiss when you entered Home Depot? I know I wouldn't. Especially if he/she tried to kiss me on the face. I most likely wouldn't bite their face off or knee them in the nads (unless I am PMSing). 

So in this light and if I had to say who is more to blame I would say the owner of the dog. Because I have had people out of the blue try and hug me and/or my dog. I have had people let their kids flop down on my dog when he was laying down. I am responsible how I act and I am responsible how my dog acts. More importantly I am responsible to know how my dog MIGHT react. It all boils down to KNOW your dog. If you have any doubts don't put yourself or your dog into the situation.


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## CarrieJ

That's sad home depot may do this based on the stupidity of a one dog owner. Home Depot used to let dogs in here but stopped, I believe it was more because of the idiots who let there dogs urinate wherever the dog wants. 
Alice was in Home Depot at fourteen weeks. That's my tomboy, hates the vacuum, loves the compound miter saw.

I never even ask to engage a dog that rides in a cart or is carried in a purse. I just assume it's going to be a resource guarding monster. 

Oh, the SF Tiger Mauling, was on Christmas Night about an hour before closing. There were two underage (under 21) and one 22 year old. Real princes of society, the 22 year old I believe was still dealing with assaulting an officer charge, resisting arrest, and drunk and disorderly conduct charges when this happened. All three were over the legal limit for alcohol. There was pot in the car.
There were other people around, when Tatiana escaped; although not many.
That tiger made a beeline for those three cretins. The tiger had a necropsy done. Her claws had been shredded down into the pads of her feet. She seriously had to work to get out. Although, they never were able to prove that the humans were taunting Tatiana, that kinda nails it for me. 
About six months or so after this event; the 22 year old was looking at multiple felonies involving grand theft of walking into Target dept. Store and running out with playstations and various other electronics. 
Like I said before....real princes of society. Tatiana did us a favor; too bad she was only one for three.


*Bottom line, there are millions and millions of drunken hemorroids that aren't raised with any sense of personal responsibility out there on this planet and there are now...449 Siberian Tigers left on the planet.


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## Mrs.K

It's already done. You can bring them until May 16. From then on, all dogs are banned, it's already in the news.


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## bellamia

LaRen616 said:


> _"Riel said she hopes her experience shows the public that it's not just certain kinds of dogs that can become aggressive."_
> 
> _"Please, please understand it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."_
> 
> I am glad that she said this.


I agree. its terrible for the lady! i cant even imagine what pain and trauma she had to go thru, but a bit part of me says'' thank God it wasnt a GSD who did this!' most pple here have a wrong notion of them anyway, this would have just confirmed it! 
hope the woman is ok.


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## Dainerra

Mrs.K said:


> It's already done. You can bring them until May 16. From then on, all dogs are banned, it's already in the news.


yes, but the article says all Home Depots in CANADA, so not sure if the US stores will be affected. I'm having DH ask today while he is at work. As I said, if they do it at my local store, they are going to lose a LOT of business.
All of the contractors bring their dogs to work with them. If Home Depot bans dogs, those customers will go across the street to Lowes


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## Dainerra

selzer said:


> As for the disneyland crock, well that is a crock. No one that can both walk and breathe at the same time can believe that crocodiles are safe for a child to feed. Oh yeah, wasn't there some man that got killed and eaten not too long ago out swimming with the crocodiles. People do that. I guess there ARE people out there that cannot walk and breathe at the same time. But how does the general public get in side the enclosures with the animal?
> .


In my case, the animal wasn't in an enclosure. This is central FL, there are gators EVERYWHERE. Disney does an excellent job of relocating them, but sometimes the idiots find them first. 
I have no shortage of stories of how stupid people are - I was on my way to work one day, came around a corner (4 lane divided highway speed limit 60MPH) and there was a family standing in the middle of the road to take a picture. 
People have been stopped from doing all kinds of stupid things. If the trash cans weren't attached to the sidewalk, people used to move them to climb over retaining walls. They climb fences, they try to pick locks on doors that say "DANGER Do Not Enter" They insist on trying to catch wild animals (once a woman wanted to take home a seagull). They will try to break safety restraints and climb out of moving vehicles.









this isn't the exact spot, but this is a similar location - big WDW sign and a large busy highway
ETA: what person in their right mind would think it was safe to have a bunch of small children running back and forth and standing in the road?


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## Samba

Interesting statistics. There was never any doubt in my mind that my mother was more dangerous than a dog
!


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## LaRen616

krystyne73 said:


> I have been bit by way more little yappy chi-chi dogs than any big dogs.


I didn't like that she included GSD's and Pitbulls, I liked that she said that it is not just certain dogs/breeds that can become aggressive. Little dogs can be aggressive too. 

I didn't look at it as her attacking big breeds for being aggressive, I looked at it as her saying that it's not just big breeds that are aggressive and bite people, any size dog can bite or be aggressive.


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## robinhuerta

LaRen.....I totally agree.
The comment that "Pitbulls and German Shepherds are large, nasty dogs" did not do our breed any service.....even if the comment "little dogs can be nasty too" followed...
That type of comment can only hurt the breed, by categorizing the GSD as an aggressive large breed.


----------



## Jax's Mom

Whiteshepherds said:


> Why are your tax dollars paying her medical bills?


Because this happened in Ontario, Canada. 
In Ontario, when you're 39, have 3 kids and work as a greeter in Home Depot, you're not paying any taxes... And our healthcare, including reconstructive surgery, is "free"... AKA the taxes I pay, which more than likely exceed what this woman makes, will pay her "medical bills".
We also have WSIB which is an insurance mandatory for all employers. As a result, you can't sue your employers for being injured in Ontario.
So all of her plastic surgery is paid for and her time off will be compensated. 
What does she need a lawyer for?


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## Samba

Pain and suffering? Disfigurement? Psychological trauma?


----------



## goatdude

GregK said:


> The CGC system needs a bit of tweaking for sure. I think it should be harder to pass that it is now. Nonetheless, implementing that requirement as it is now still would weed out a lot of anti-social dogs.


I hear ya. My dog passed the CGC and is small dog and child aggressive, so much so that I would never take her into any store unless I don't care about the consequences. In the CGC test we didn't have kids in the room (to test with) and she didn't react to the small dog in the test. Go figure, passes the test but is very anti-social outside of the training facility.


----------



## gsdraven

Jax's Mom said:


> In Ontario, when you're 39, have 3 kids and work as a greeter in Home Depot, you're not paying any taxes...


You don't get taxes taken out of your paycheck? You are making a lot of assumptions about this woman. Maybe she is married and her husband is a successful business person paying lots of taxes and this is part time job? Would that be more acceptable to you? Her age, number of kids and tax status are irrelevant to the fact that she needed medical treatment for a dog bite.

_I don't agree with suing for this but it is her right to able to do so._


----------



## Jax's Mom

Samba said:


> Pain and suffering? Disfigurement? Psychological trauma?


We have a "threshold" for that type of claim, which includes, but not limited to "permanent and serious disfigurement"... missing part of one's nose goes nowhere near this threshold. It's more along the lines of missing a limb or can no longer walk, etc.
Any lawyer that takes her case or says she even has a claim is just taking her money.


----------



## Mrs.K

Jax's Mom said:


> Because this happened in Ontario, Canada.
> In Ontario, when you're 39, have 3 kids and work as a greeter in Home Depot, you're not paying any taxes... And our healthcare, including reconstructive surgery, is "free"... AKA the taxes I pay, which more than likely exceed what this woman makes, will pay her "medical bills".
> We also have WSIB which is an insurance mandatory for all employers. As a result, you can't sue your employers for being injured in Ontario.
> So all of her plastic surgery is paid for and her time off will be compensated.
> What does she need a lawyer for?


hummmm....sounds like a good plan to move to Canada


----------



## Jax's Mom

gsdraven said:


> You don't get taxes taken out of your paycheck? You are making a lot of assumptions about this woman. Maybe she is married and her husband is a successful business person paying lots of taxes and this is part time job? Would that be more acceptable to you? Her age, number of kids and tax status are irrelevant to the fact that she needed medical treatment for a dog bite.
> 
> _I don't agree with suing for this but it is her right to able to do so._


I understand the point you're making, but in Ontario, your marital status and how much your spouse earns is entirely irrelevant to your own taxes or the amount of medical coverage you receive. You could be a billionaire or destitute and still won't pay a dime. People in Canada literally have no idea what a medical bill even looks like.
I'm not saying the dog owner has a leg to stand on because no dog should be allowed to bite anyone... But let's not go overboard with the lawsuits...


----------



## Mrs.K

gsdraven said:


> You don't get taxes taken out of your paycheck? You are making a lot of assumptions about this woman. Maybe she is married and her husband is a successful business person paying lots of taxes and this is part time job? Would that be more acceptable to you? Her age, number of kids and tax status are irrelevant to the fact that she needed medical treatment for a dog bite.
> 
> _I don't agree with suing for this but it is her right to able to do so._


Well, in Germany, if you only earn 400 Euros per paycheck you don't pay any taxes either and your healthcare is taken care of by the country (except for the quarterly office fee and possibly the food you pay in the hospital), most likely they probably get social welfare on top of that. 

Since she is just a greeter I can see why Jax's Mom is assuming that she works on a low income basis. From what I can see, the Canadian system is not that much different from what I know in Germany.

Even if your husband has a better income, as long as you, yourself make below or 400 Euros you don't pay taxes...


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## Jax's Mom

Mrs.K said:


> hummmm....sounds like a good plan to move to Canada


It's not for everybody, I'd personally love to live in the States but if you'd like to give it a try it's not that hard to get in to Canada! LOL


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## zyppi

Yeah, well most assume those little fluff dogs are toys, literally, an have not compunction about sticking their faces close to them.

Shih Tzus can be nasty little things when they want to be.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

Jax's Mom said:


> We have a "threshold" for that type of claim, which includes, but not limited to "permanent and serious disfigurement"... missing part of one's nose goes nowhere near this threshold. It's more along the lines of missing a limb or can no longer walk, etc.
> Any lawyer that takes her case or says she even has a claim is just taking her money.


In Minnesota, she'd have a claim. ANY permanent scar can be compensated.

The way that it would work would be that the health insurance (whether private or state-funded) would put in a subrogation claim to recoup the money they had paid out in medical bills, and if there was a recovery from the dog owner's homeowners' insurance, the health insurance would get compensated out of that settlement. Additional money would be negotiated for "pain and suffering" and "permanent disfigurement," as well as any out-of-pocket costs (medical bill co-pays, medication, etc.).


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## Jax's Mom

We just have to teach our kids not to put their face in a shopping cart with a strange dog in it or they may wind up with a permanent scar or part of their nose missing... as this lady will presumably be doing "from now on."


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## Caledon

The woman with the dog is fighting the fine because she cannot afford to pay it. The dog is 12 years old and according to her has never bit someone before. 

The woman that was hurt will not get any money from the dog owner. Not sure if the woman is a home owner or not or of her insurance would cover that. Can't get money when there is none. 

Where I think the injured woman has a case is against her employer who has deeper pockets. They have a policy that they do not enforce, and since they did not enforce it they should have given instruction to emplyees on how to greet dogs.

I'm not an expert on workers comp but I wonder if they will be investigating the employer. 

Not an expert on Workers Comp. They maybe investigating the employer for violations.


----------



## Whiteshepherds

Caledon said:


> Where I think the injured woman has a case is against her employer who has deeper pockets. *They have a policy that they do not enforce, and since they did not enforce it they should have given instruction to emplyees on how to greet dogs.*
> 
> I'm not an expert on workers comp but I wonder if they will be investigating the employer.
> 
> Not an expert on Workers Comp. They maybe investigating the employer for violations.


I agree. More than likely Home Depot is going to get slapped with a lawsuit...at least they would if they were in the US.


----------



## TheNamesNelson

This dog owner who's dog bit the home depot lady is lucky, I would have ended the dog the moment it bit me. I know the law here will permit dogs to bite once, but will take action on the second offense. (Unless its a mauling) A neighbor of mine had wiener dogs and a fenced in back yard. He was out in his garden with his dogs and a pit from down the street was running loose, jumped his fence and instantly killed his little dog. He tried to get the dog off and it bit his arm; he was an old man and his skin tore and he had to go to the hospital. Animal control was called and all they could do was sentence the pit to house arrest and probation. Well the dog got loose and bit someone else a week later and was put down.

I know dog bite incidents have to be treated on a case by case basis because sometimes the dog was provoked into it. But in the case of attacks like such I feel there need to be stiffer penalties. a $600 fine is not enough, thankfully we have lawsuits to help the victim get justice.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

TheNamesNelson said:


> This dog owner who's dog bit the home depot lady is lucky, I would have ended the dog the moment it bit me.


You would've "ended" the dog? Really? I can see the headline now: "Lunatic murders cute fluffy dog in Home Depot."


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## selzer

Home Depot is not a pet-oriented business. Only a small fraction of their customers bring pets, and less of their overall product has something to do with pets -- some fencing, maybe a doggy door. 

It is economical for them to enforce their no-dogs, except service dog policy that to train greeters how to greet dogs properly, to have greeters demand CGC or CGN paperwork, spend time and money assuring that dogs are SAFE before allowing them in. AND and overall policy, no dogs, will upset some people who will probably understand the legal issue and not run screaming to other stores who will enforce their policy too, when there is an incident. But, stopping people at the door and letting the shih Tzu in and turning away the GSD will INFURIATE indvidual shoppers. 

And yes, some CGC dogs are not stellar examples. THEY SHOULD NOT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT. I would fight that tooth and nail. Why? Not for me, I could pass it with my dogs, even if they DID make it more difficult. But it is a good goal for EVERY pet owner. Even if a dog is a little sketchy at letting someone handle their paws and ears, if that dog passes the other nine tests, than the owners DID work with the dog.

If you train, train, train, train your dog and give them only correction, correction, correction, correction, and never praise or treat, what is going to happen? People are not so different than critters. We ARE critters after all. People need to accomplish things to encourage them to continue. Yes there may be some persistent people who will do a CGC test four or more times without passing. Most will become discouraged, not continue with that dog, and not even try with the next dog. 

What is the CGC test designed to do, really? I think it is designed to promote responsible dog ownership and it DOES that. People who have a CGC on their dog may still have an aggressive dog, but most of them KNOW that and will continue to work with the dog. An Aggressive dog should not pass the CGC, no, not true people aggression, but if the dog gets it before final temperament and becomes more aggressive, well, no test is perfect. Forcing people to retake it after 1 -- is final temperament even in by 1 year? I do not think so in all breeds. How about yearly, you get a star on your license tag if you pass your annual exam. How would we pay for THAT? By hiking the license-tax by probably 10 times. Want to pay $100/dog for licenses?

I am not keen on suing, but if this lady had grounds to sue a GSD owner if their dog nipped the end of her nose off, then she should not forbear to sue because the dog is an old shih tsu and the owner is an old lady.


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## APBTLove

LaRen616 said:


> _"Please, please understand it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."_
> 
> I am glad that she said this.


I'm not.. the wording.. _not only_ - implying they ARE nasty/aggressive.. even if that wasn't what they were trying to say.


----------



## APBTLove

As for the topic at hand... Both people are at fault. I am SO sick of people reaching out of nowhere and assaulting my dogs.. lol okay, assaulting is a little harsh, but REALLY. How hard is it to ask "Can I pet her?" - and the drama it could save.

Unless the dog is loose or the owner lets the dog all over me I always ask if I can touch someone else's dog, for my safety and to be courteous.. 

I assume the worker did not ask, she never said she did. 

And it is the owner's fault for bringing a dog like that into a public place full of people. I have a highly human reactive dog - it's not hard to handle - DON'T TAKE HA DOGS TO PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE ALL OVER! 

It's like taking a dog-reactive or aggressive dog to a dog park.


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## LaRen616

APBTLove said:


> I'm not.. the wording.. _not only_ - implying they ARE nasty/aggressive.. even if that wasn't what they were trying to say.


and I said this



LaRen616 said:


> I didn't like that she included GSD's and Pitbulls, I liked that she said that it is not just certain dogs/breeds that can become aggressive. Little dogs can be aggressive too.
> 
> I didn't look at it as her attacking big breeds for being aggressive, I looked at it as her saying that it's not just big breeds that are aggressive and bite people, any size dog can bite or be aggressive.


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## APBTLove

Yep... People, especially when they're being broadcasted to hundreds.. thousands.. need to choose their words carefully.


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## Jax's Mom

> "Please, please understand *it's not only the pit bulls and German shepherds and the big dogs that are nasty*," she said. "The small dogs can be just as nasty and that's what's deceiving."


I don't understand how anyone can interpret this as anything positive. She's saying she originally thought only pit bulls and German shepherds were aggressive but now she's added this new category of dog to not stick her brain dead face in front of.


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## asia39

I feel like I can speak with some knowledge on this subject as I have worked for Home Depot in a management position... Not sure about our Canadian stores but our U.S . Stores have signs (although they are small ones) posted by the front entrances stating No Pets allowed... Along with No bare feet and No going shirtless. Yes it is true that most stores don' t always enforce this ... But the signs are there.


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## Dainerra

asia39 said:


> I feel like I can speak with some knowledge on this subject as I have worked for Home Depot in a management position... Not sure about our Canadian stores but our U.S . Stores have signs (although they are small ones) posted by the front entrances stating No Pets allowed... Along with No bare feet and No going shirtless. Yes it is true that most stores don' t always enforce this ... But the signs are there.


our store also has the signs, but they welcome dogs. One store manager changed to "no dogs" and the exodus of customers to Lowes was astounding. The majority of the contractors take their dogs to work, so that is a lot of $$ to lose


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## Jax's Mom

Our stores say no dogs too but I see dogs in the store all the time. 

I wonder if there was ever a conversation among the higher-ups that agreed they would be lax on the dog rule until a greeter gets bitten in the face... Then they'll ban all dogs?


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## Dainerra

we were told that it is up to each individual store manager to decide if they will/not allow dogs. We were told by Lowes that they have the same policy. Our HD allows dogs because Lowes does. 

Or does Lowes allow them because the Home Depot does?


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## MarleyGSD

You know what, that's just stupid IMO.....woman said she "bent down to pet the dog" I don't know about you guys but when i greet a dog I put my hand down, the top of my hand facing the dog and let them sniff for a little. Let us both feel out the situation.....even if it is a small dog!
And she said something about "it's not only German sheps and pittbulls that are nasty" I don't think that's fair to say at all. It's all on the owner, and as she can see, it doesn't matter the size.


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## asia39

Don't get me wrong. .. I enjoy seeing animals come into Home Depot... I've seen dogs, birds , a tiger cub , even a kangaroo joey in the store . I have brought both of my dogs to the store with me... But I can see both sides of the coin . Just a few weeks ago a guy brought in a large Doberman that came up so I could pet him. I was fine until the dog decided to stand on my foot.  Made me a bit nervous... And I have been around big dogs all my life.. We as associates trust that the animal is not aggressive. ( and yes I did ask to pet . )


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## DCluver33

WarrantsWifey said:


> I have not once in my life heard GSD's put in the same dangerous category first hand like that. I have yet to meet ONE mean GSD or "nasty" one none the less. I bet she contributes to the dog ignorance with that statement! :-/ That makes me upset.


try working with rescue GSD's lol. There are a couple nasty GSD's at my work, I don't know if it's because they haven't been well socialized or what, but they are aggressive when I go do my rounds to make sure everything's locked up. All the others are sweet as can be. this is only like 2-4 out of 80 rescues that we have at the kennel that are down right nasty.

As for this lady. WOW!!!!! its' common sense to ask before you pet a strange dog, but I guess common sense is going out the window. The dog owner should have stopped the employee BEFORE she went to pet the dog. It's pretty sad that people with small dogs don't usually train and socialize thier dogs, yet give them an 80 # GSD and that dog will be well behaved and socialized (generally).


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## Cassidy's Mom

Jax's Mom said:


> Our stores say no dogs too but I see dogs in the store all the time.
> 
> I wonder if there was ever a conversation among the higher-ups that agreed they would be lax on the dog rule until a greeter gets bitten in the face... Then they'll ban all dogs?


Who knows? But just based on what I've seen around here (generally speaking, I've have no idea if our local Home Depot allows dogs or not, I'm not there enough to notice and have never tried to take my dogs there) it has more to do with little purse dogs vs big scary dogs. If I saw a "no dogs" sign on a business I'd never dream of just casually sauntering in with my dogs. And yet I see people with little dogs blithely ignoring signs and most of the time nobody says anything. That REALLY irks me! :angryfire: I'm pretty sure if I tried to walk in with two GSDs somebody would say something, even if they were better behaved than a little purse dog that the owner never bothered to train.


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## AgileGSD

DharmasMom said:


> I am talking about people who run up to, grab at, stick their face in a dog's face and start kissing on a dog that they don't know. Grown ups should know better and they should teach their kids to know better.


 We just had two of our dogs at a flea market a few weeks ago and someone allowed her toddler to run up to the dogs, hug them and kiss them both on the head. I once had a group of young kids run up on one of my GSDs and start hugging her, while the adult in charge just laughed. The dogs in those situations didn't react but it doesn't matter. It's a really bad idea to allow children to think behaving that way around strange dogs is ever appropriate.



Cassidy's Mom said:


> I'm pretty sure if I tried to walk in with two GSDs somebody would say something, even if they were better behaved than a little purse dog that the owner never bothered to train.


 A dog in a carrier is much less likely to cause a problem than dogs being walked on leash too. If the dog is confined to a carrier or purse it's unlikely to pose a biting risk, unlikely to pee on merchandise, unlikely to leave dog hair on merchandise and unlikely to offend other customers. When I was a teen I used to take my ferret all over in a backpack or messenger bag, took her into lots of stores and places that pets weren't allowed and most people never even noticed her. I'm not saying it's "fair" but I guess you could say it is a benefit of having a dog that weighs 5lbs


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## Jax's Mom

AgileGSD said:


> A dog in a carrier is much less likely to cause a problem than dogs being walked on leash too. If the dog is confined to a carrier or purse it's unlikely to pose a biting risk, unlikely to pee on merchandise, unlikely to leave dog hair on merchandise and unlikely to offend other customers.


I'm very likely to leave dog hair on merchandise and offend customers 
I haven't done so yet, but I wouldn't rule out peeing on merchandise either.


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## Cassidy's Mom

AgileGSD said:


> A dog in a carrier is much less likely to cause a problem than dogs being walked on leash too. If the dog is confined to a carrier or purse it's unlikely to pose a biting risk, unlikely to pee on merchandise, unlikely to leave dog hair on merchandise and unlikely to offend other customers.


True, but to me that's not the point. "No dogs" should mean NO dogs, not just no big "scary" breeds like GSDs. I guess it's the audacity of people who think that rules don't apply to them that pisses me off, and I see it all the time with small dog people.


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## selzer

Jax's Mom said:


> I'm very likely to leave dog hair on merchandise and offend customers
> I haven't done so yet, but I wouldn't rule out peeing on merchandise either.


What Agile said was correct. I have seen someone jump up an run accross a pet store because my three month old puppy turned the corner! No one is likely to do that with a purse-dog. 

I used to take my dogs to home depot. I was in a construction project and their often. I did not see the sign on the window because it was covered up by carts permanently parked in front of it. 

I did ASK if it was ok to bring the dog in, and they said sure, and I had them in there several times.

I was miffed when someone asked me if my puppy was a service dog. I said, she is a puppy (obviously not a service dog). He told me that the company policy was no dogs. The manager's daughter had allergies and would have to go to the hospital... 

I did not point out that service dogs were NOT hypoalergetic. I simply turned on my heel and left the store and finished my project at lowes. 

A sherriff's deputy in there one day probaby for security talked all nice at me about the puppy, and then he asked the clerk if I was allowed to have the dog in there. And she said yes. 

I stopped bringing the pups. (They were house-trained.)

I started watching though. I watched others bring their dogs in. I watched other dogs soil the aisle and people just walk away. At PetsMart you kind of have to expect that, and set aside so much money for potty stations -- materials to clean it up. But why should a home improvement store be bothered by that stuff.

We, here who have our dogs and want to take them into public places would NEVER leave them to urinate on the floor or the products. But people see our dogs, who are well-behaved, and they decide to bring their dogs, who may not be as well socialized, as well trained, and totally out of their element. We might potty our dog first and then be responsible. Some of them are going to choose to walk on by. 

So, if your store lets your dog in, enjoy it, treat it as a privilege, and do not get all bent out of shape when they ban them altogether. I am sorry but there are more zeroes in the world to keep something like that going.


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## Dainerra

I saw that someone popped this up, so I was reminded to tell you this.. lol

Our local Home Depot is still allowing dogs. None of the management there had even heard about this incident, so it hasn't even been discussed. They (my local store) have no plans to change their policy on allowing pets.


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