# Color question



## Espiritus (Mar 8, 2018)

I am completely perplexed on the color genetics. 

I am looking at a silver sable male. He was bred to a black/tan (very light coloration) and in one litter they produced (according to breeder) sable, white, black and blue.

Anybody venture a guess on how this is possible? Can you carry both a dilute, a masking and a black recessive?
Since he's a very light silver sable, I know (or think I know)he carries a dilute gene. But can he also carry a masking AND a black?

Years ago my children bred "fancy" gerbils. I thought I had a handle on all this. Clearly, not.

Any ideas?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Can you carry both a dilute, a masking and a black recessive?
> Since he's a very light silver sable, I know (or think I know)he carries a dilute gene. But can he also carry a masking AND a black?


Yes, yes, yes and yes. 

Silver sable is not dilute, it is just poor pigment. A dilute is a blue or a liver. 

The masking gene is apart from the color genes, so a dog can carry the white masking gene in addition to a regular color gene (be it black and tan, black, or sable), and may or may not have the dilute gene. 

Sable is dominant. So the male may be heterozygous with sable (expressed) and black (recessive), and must have the dilute gene and the white masking gene as both of these are also recessive. So to produce white, black and blue, the female also must be a carrier of the recessive black, dilute and white masking genes.

A long shot to have such a color mix in a litter, unless the breeder is specifically breeding FOR whites, dilutes, and poorly pigmented dogs. Not what I would refer to as a reputable breeder.


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## Espiritus (Mar 8, 2018)

I see my mistake. I thought silver was also a dilute.

I don't think she was breeding for a specific color, just breeding her two shepherds which happen to be a silver sable and a black/cream non-masked. The female color is washed out, like the old rin-tin-tin. 

The silver sable male is beautiful. I've always been drawn to the 'dark-side' (black, bicolor) so this attraction is surprising. 

They bred him recently to a black. I'm curious about what that produces.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> They bred him recently to a black. I'm curious about what that produces.


Puppies could be sable (all they need is one sable gene from dad to be sable), solid black, or depending if the dam carries the making gene and/or the dilute gene, blue or white.


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## Espiritus (Mar 8, 2018)

Would they be a dark sable or a gray sable? (Assuming no dilute or masking in her)


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

That will depend on what the black dog brings as far as depth of pigment and color. A black dog can carry genes for washed out color. You just don't see it.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Can't really predict that - sable is sable is sable - how much black pigment is inherited from the parents will determine the level of darkness. The male being washed out has very little genetic pigment to pass on, but many breeders feel that breeding to a solid black helps darken the pigment of the offspring.


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## Espiritus (Mar 8, 2018)

Thank you all for responding. I'm thinking about buying this guy only because of his beautiful coloration. Since he's close I might go visit and see how he acts. I don't want to bring a problem home even if it is gorgeous.
She says he's housebroken and has manners, basic obedience. 
Thanks, again!


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