# Diagnose? Walking drunk, falling over



## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

From Europe. Living in Asia. I made a few friends among local street dogs. This one is closest. Knows where I live and every night comes for a dinner.

*He was perfectly fine. I didn't see him for only 1 week (not even at his usual territory). Then 1 night night he "walked" to my house.*

- 2 insecure steps - felt down - 2 insecure steps - felt down - 2 insecure steps - felt down (*4 days later he can stand, but is still weirdly moving from side to side*)
- prefers head unnaturally turned to his left side (like he is looking behind him), even when laying on the ground he raises his head back
- spine/back seems curved, it's not new
- huge appetite from the first day, like always
- no visible pain, want be cuddled and touched anywhere on the body
- wants attention and play, impossible to take video of him, as he follows me everywhere

Any idea?











*(red marks are from disinfection I applied on some scratches he had on his back)*


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

injured - acting a bit neurologic from your description and very neurologic and damaged by video....dog fight???? bites on neck??? or hit by car or some other conveyance??? Poor guy.....can you take him in, let him rest comfortably?? are there any vets there - I know vet care is hit and miss in some places

Lee


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Poor guy. He looks like he's in pretty bad condition. I'm far from a vet, but holding his head to one side and problems with balance makes me think of an ear infection that has gotten out of control. 

Here's a list of symptoms from petmd.com:

"The symptoms apparent in cases of otitis media or interna are largely dependent on how severe and extensive the infection is. Signs may range from no visible symptoms whatsoever, to apparent nervous system involvement. If symptoms appear, they may include pain when opening the mouth, reluctance to chew, shaking the head, pawing at the affected ear, tilting the head, leaning to the side of the affected ear, and an altered sense of balance (known as vestibular deficits). If both ears are affected by inflammation, further symptoms may include wide swinging movements of the head, wobbly uncoordinated body movement, and deafness. Additional symptoms may include vomiting and nausea, unequally sized pupils, redness of the ears, ear discharge, a grey bulging eardrum (known as tympanic membrane), and in severe cases, signs associated with nervous system damage such as facial nerve damage (e.g. inability to blink, or paralysis)."


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Before he was coming like every second day. Now he is coming every single day (probably has problem finding food when he is like that). He will come at 7pm, eats and then sleeps on the garden till 4am, when he leaves (new behaviour, he never stayed here before). And next day the same. 

I would keep him inside, but he is scared of inside of house (street dog)

We have vet here (taking care of my GSD), but you know....Asia...millions of street dogs. Nobody cares. Vet won't be dealing with street dog.

- I gave him "triple" bath with strong anti-flea & anti-tick shampoo
- I disinfected all his scratches and ugly skin
- I'm feeding him raw diet & puppy kibble with high content of vitamins etc. 

Don't know what else I could do for him.

Accident is possible. Fight too. Not sure about ear infection. He doesn't seems be bothered by his ears. And he is chewing OK.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

It is SO good of you t care for this guy. If vet is not possible then I would keep up with providing good food, the wound and skin care, and maybe get some ear wash for possible ear infection or yeast. Can you see anything if you look into his ears? Do his ears small foul? Ear infections can definitely cause a head tilt even if they are not scratching their ears. Could also be head injury, neuro reaction to tick borne illness or parasite..lots of possibilities unfortunately. 

I once rescued a Mastiff that had been strayed in the woods for at least 8 months ..there were sightings, like bigfoot. They could not catch her and she was being fed by residents of an old age home bordering the woods. Finally a fence company donated materials to construct a pen that didn't look like an enclosure and they got her. She was covered in ticks, had Lyme disease, and was terrified. I took her after she spent a few weeks being brought back to acceptable health..she was in the barn at AHS because she would not go indoors. It took weeks but eventually she came into my house (we had a 3 season porch in the yard she was comfortable in). It took like a year before she would "relax" in the house. She always preferred the large yard and 3 season room though. So maybe your street dog will come around too


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

This poor, poor dog. Thank you for seeing him and for caring, and most especially for not treating him as an invisible nuisance!

Without vet care, this is going to be hard. Is there any chance you can keep him in your garden, away from cars and danger during the day?

Can you get dewormer pills for him from a pharmacy or pet supply store to sneak in his food? He's likely full of worms, and getting rid of them will help him use that good nutrition so the body can heal everything else. Any product with Fenbendazole will get a big range of worms -- at least 3 days, but 5 or even 7 days is much better for a dog who's been through what he has. In addition to roundworms, hookworms, and whipworms, it also gets lungworms (common in your part of the world). Adding Praziquantel will also kill tapeworms (if there are white wiggling segments the size of rice in his poop, those of from tapes). There are neuological things that lungworms can cause. He's so skinny that he's likely full of several kinds of intestinal parasites, so I would be inclined to do 7 days of dewormer just automatically for a dog like this. 

Is it legal for you to give him antibiotics where you are without a vet prescription? If so, the right one for a couple of weeks would probably help with any infection on fight wounds and the ear infection, esp. if you can't handle him to put antibiotic ear ointment in because they're painful. I'd rather not throw antibiotics at a dog that can't see a vet, but if vets in your country refuse to see a street dog, and if pharmacies don't control antibiotics (as is true in some countries), a hard choice has to be made. Smell him carefully for infection. There's a distinctive smell infected wounds have. 

I'll send you a PM with what antibiotics I would talk with a pharmacist about, if they dispense without a vet, as is true in many countries. I really don't like throwing antibiotics at a dog without a vet being involved, but if vets won't see street dogs, you're in a bind. Is there maybe a local humane charity for street dogs that had volunteer vets?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Where in Asia?
See if this Charity/rescue can help. Originally started in Thailand, but have branched out/networking with other DMT rights groups and rescues.
Soi can offer vet care. Have vets on staff and work to rehome these street dogs to the U.S. and Canada


https://www.soidog.org/


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## Jpage24.87 (Jan 19, 2018)

I can't tell if he looks old, or just rough. He kind of acts like he's injured. Perhaps got hit by a vehicle. It's great you're looking out for him.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Oh my gosh: thank you for helping this guy! He looks emaciated/starving, maybe some of those symptoms are lack of food. 
So glad you are asking for help here: really good folks, and much knowledge.
Sorry I have nothing useful to add, but I just had to thank you.

My current guy is an ex-street dog & he's healthy shiny & bright. So thanks for making the effort. Sonic says "hi!"


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Why would veterinarians not treat street dogs? You would be paying them. Its a dog! I am thinking this poor dog is loaded with parasites.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Ok that dog is in trouble. Is your intention to keep him? Rehome him?

I'm going to be the bad guy here. If you can't keep him put him down. No animal should live like that. I would suspect he was hit by something, some vehicle.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

What country are you in? If Nepal, this organization would be good to contact.


Treatment ? Animal Nepal


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

I thought I will leave quick update for anybody interested.

Archie (his new name) is again walking. His walking is still very slow and insecure, also is very insecure around my GSD, which likes to bump into him. But today is the first day when he actually didn't felt on the ground and stayed on his legs for the entire time. Also it seems that I have won war on fleas, which seemed imposible. But he is flea free.

*Funny thing:* Some of you recommended me antibiotic/anti-worm pills. I wasn't sure about that. So I went to talk to a vet, young guy as me (we were neigbours last year), who is also friendly with all animals. He asked me which dog I'm talking about. When I started describing him, he instantly knew. Remeber that 1 week, when Archie didn't visit me? I turned out that particular week Archie was intead of me visiting house of that young vet. He diagnosed him with some infection (forgot the name) and was throwing him antibiotics inside treats. That's why I didn't saw him around!

Speak about dogs sense where to go ask for a help, right? And particulaty Archies ability to make friends despite being smelly bloody bag full of fleas. :smile2:


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

He's not just a street dog, he's a smart & savvy street dog, & found you.
Thanks so much for the update. Even if all you've done is make him a little more comfortable for awhile, that is a very big deal to him. It sounds like things may be coming around.
I follow on facebook the rescue that helped my dog, and they have sometimes taken in dogs that look very bad, and vet them & feed them, foster & care for them, and onwards.
Others are helped & remain street dogs (some dogs are very good at being street dogs others want to be pets) & get extra food, vet, & flea/tick baths on occassion (this is call 'outreach'). Sounds like you may have found some extra help (friendly vet).


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

andywhite said:


> I thought I will leave quick update for anybody interested.
> 
> Archie (his new name) is again walking. His walking is still very slow and insecure, also is very insecure around my GSD, which likes to bump into him. But today is the first day when he actually didn't felt on the ground and stayed on his legs for the entire time. Also it seems that I have won war on fleas, which seemed imposible. But he is flea free.
> 
> ...


All I can say is......Good on you and that young Vet :thumbup: :thumbup: ......You just made my morning ! Thank you


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

This is great to hear.Thank you for the update.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

So glad he's doing a little better. He sounds like a pretty special dog.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Wow! What a wonderful young vet. I'm so glad he's getting Archie the meds he needs. I'm also glad you now have a resource to ask to help you diagnose and treat. 

Maybe that's Archie's purpose, bringing the two of you together to help other dogs. Sometimes these special dogs have an angel hitching a ride into this world looking for a particular human for some special gift.


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## Jpage24.87 (Jan 19, 2018)

Reading your update made my morning! I sure hope Archie recovers from his infection. What an awesome vet-friend you made from Archie's ordeal.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

This time it was the vet, who didn't see Archie for more than week. And he assumed that despite his help (antibiotics) Archie didn't make it.

So he was relieved to found out, that he's well and take care off by me. :smile2:


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Things has settled down and initial drama come to a closure. So I'm thinking about last update. 0

Archie is doing pretty well. There's no more falling on the ground or walking drunk. He is still insecure on his legs - that didn't changed. But you can see other improvements, that might be even more important. Few days ago Archie started to be finally relaxed - sitting calmly, breathing with open mouth and tongue out. He never done that before. Also yesterday was the first time, when I saw him raise his back leg during peeing (before he would pee like a girl). He also started being interested in his surroundings - sniffing ground (and mostly other dogs butts). Before he was just laying uninterested. So walking didn't improved yet, but he's showing improvements in other areas.

See? Being interested in another dog and going pretty far from the house on his own.










I have offered him sleeping space inside the house. Which he refused. Then I offered him blanket on the terrace. Which he also refused. 

He has chosen space under our house. I have no problem with that. What he doesn't know, this means more often bathing! (which he hates) >



















Photo from 1 hour ago. He's being brutally tortured by clean water and anti-flea shampoo. It wasn't my idea to sleep under the house... .:|










Have you ever seen so nicely healed wound? Proud. :nerd: I spent a lot of time taking care of this one.










He's doing better day after day. And he is staying with us. No more street life and rotten garbage as a food.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Wow, thanks for the update! He's looking better. It's heartwarming to hear you have taken him in!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Archie found you and his personal vet by himself. One smart dog. Now, I hope you can work towards full adoption as your own as he seems to insist to. Why not ease him into your house by preventing going back to the street? It would be so sad, after all this good karma he received, he will be killed in a car accident.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Archie is blessed for sure. He's looking much better. If available, maybe some soft cedar shavings or cedar mulch under the edge of the house so he doesn't lay in the dirt so much. Will help keep him stay pest free and smelling better and maybe in less need of the dreaded bath as often 
Archie is a lucky guy and you are a wonderful person for helping him.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

That look after his bath, well if he didn't run away, looks like his mind is made up as to where he wants to be. He looks wonderful.

This is a great update. You should be proud of that healing wound and all you have done to better his life.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You can slowly ease him into the house. Ask us if you want suggestions on how to do that. You saved his life.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

With these dogs, first the body heals, and then the soul does. It looks like it's already happening. Good work!

Do you have access to neem oil locally where you are? If so, it can be a nice way to ward off fleas and other pests. I think it's produced in India, so it might be available anywhere selling Indian products.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

What an amazing job you are doing!! And well done to Archie for finding you!


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

*Guess who is having such a magnificent recovery, that he joined us today on our afternoon walk?* :grin2:


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Bless your kind heart for doing this! Archie is looking great!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

He is looking great! And happy! Good job, thank you for taking such good care.
Is he living with you now or still a nomad?


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> He is looking great! And happy! Good job, thank you for taking such good care.
> Is he living with you now or still a nomad?


Unfenced garden, he can leave whenever wants. However he turned out exactly like my GSD. Never leaves garden, stays full time. Always somewhere close, waiting for me and my GSD come out from the house. :wink2:


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

That's awesome! He's starting to look more like the happy, carefree dog he's supposed to be. He's lucky to have you!!


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Great pictures! They look good together. Archie looks so much better!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

He looks like a different dog,healthy and joyful!That's wonderful to see


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

By the way, what breeds do you see in him? (What might not be obvious from photos - he has double coat. He is much bigger than average stray dogs around here.)

I would say partly labrador? (I've seen a few purebred labradors in our village).


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I don't see a specific breed. Purebred village dog. Questions: why don't you give the old guy a soft blanket in his crate? What is in his bowl? Are you now the official owner?


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> I don't see a specific breed. Purebred village dog. Questions: why don't you give the old guy a soft blanket in his crate? What is in his bowl? Are you now the official owner?


Both my dogs are crated only after a bath to dry (for like 30 minutes) (you can see that his head is still wet) (I'm using water only, no shampoo). No reason for blanket.

Both are eating raw food (sometimes cooked in hot water). Since I don't really understand dog nutritions on high level, occasionally they also get puppy kibble (which should contain a lot of vitamins in case something is misssing in their raw diet). Contain of his bowl looks like cooked chicken to me.

We went on the walk through his old territory. We asked some old lady who lives there about him. And she was like "_yeah, that dog was always sleeping here in the bushes and was eating our garbage, no idea who his owner is/was _". (I wanted to be sure, that I didn't steal somebody's dog.) It's been already 1 month since he didn't leave our garden. So I guess I'm officially the owner now?


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

My successful rescue story almost come to an end; as Archie nearly drowned this afternoon. :|

We went for a walk/swimming to a river. I went first with my GSD to a nice area with rocks and shallow water. As usually. Archie was interested in area up stream with deep mud, steep shore and probably some mild whirlpools. We never went there. My wife went last. And she was like:

W: What's that?
M: That's Archie in the water. (thinking she mistaken him for strange dog)
W: No, what's he doing?
M: Swimming. (hearing commotion in water)
W: No! What's he doing?!!!
M: Swim... !!!

According to her he tried to go out of water. Felt back in on his back. Then probably combination of things happend. Deep mud, whirpools, his still poor coordination, disorientation...something like that. And he started drowning. 

When I turned my head back to him; I saw only one of his back legs sticking out of water. And his motionless body started sinking deeper into river. I interpreted commotion in the water behind me as he swimming and playing. Also he was pretty far. But for the entire time he was drowning! As I run to him I just throw my phone out of my pocket and jumped after him into water. I didn't even think if I should do it, if it could be dangerous (as it already got Archie), my only thought for the entire time was - how the &%^@ do you perform a CPR on a dog?!

As I landed in the water I couldn't see his body anymore. Just some white blur, which quickly disappeared. I reached there and managed to grab his back leg. As I dragged his body to the bank I noticed, that he is 100% unconscious. I managed to lift him and throw him up on the shore. As he hit the ground hard, he came back to life. He started coughing & vomiting a tons of water and was disoriented. Of course my first thoughts were on his state. Brain damage due to lack of oxygen? Or did he had stroke first, which caused drowning? (I didn't know what wife saw). Nope, he coughed and vomited tons of water, shake his body and was like "where's my ball? let's play!". :nerd:

A few people wrote here, that I saved his life be taking care of him. I'm not 100% sure about that. But today I saved his life for 100%. As he was unconcious and sinking deeper and deeper.

5 minutes later he was back in the water. :surprise: No damage to his body or his playful soul. But in our usual shallow water with rocky bottom. We have already learned our lesson about going anywhere near that part of the river! According to my wife he saw something in that water, that's why he went there. I don't know, I was focused on my GSD... . We never went to that part of the river, I have no idea what was he thinking about going there on his own. Instead of going to play with us as usually... . 

Probably a lot of coincidences let to this drowning. And even more coincidences let to happy end! If my wife didn't saw him, he would sink and I would assumed that he just run away. If I was 1 second slower, I wouldn't know where he sinked... .

I just hope this doesn't turn into "Final destination" movie. Where people managed to escape their death and for the rest of the movie death was trying to take them again.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Yikes! That's really scary, for both of you. I'm so glad you are both okay. (There actually _is _a CPR protocol for dogs -- the vet friend you met could surely show you how to do it. I've been meaning to take a class on it for a long time.)

One tip about river swimming with dogs -- I keep mine on a long line when we swim in wild places. Currents can be VERY sneaky! 

We have float vests on the dogs that we can clip the line to, with a ring on top of the shoulders. A regular harness would work this way too. Collars aren't ideal because dragging the dog out of the current by its neck could cause an injury. You can make a long line by getting sturdy cord (rope) and attaching a leash clip to it with a good knot, then make a knotted handle at the other end that stays around your wrist.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Magwart said:


> Yikes! That's really scary, for both of you. I'm so glad you are both okay. (There actually _is _a CPR protocol for dogs -- the vet friend you met could surely show you how to do it. I've been meaning to take a class on it for a long time.)
> 
> One tip about river swimming with dogs -- I keep mine on a long line when we swim in wild places. Currents can be VERY sneaky!
> 
> We have float vests on the dogs that we can clip the line to, with a ring on top of the shoulders. A regular harness would work this way too. Collars aren't ideal because dragging the dog out of the current by its neck could cause an injury. You can make a long line by getting sturdy cord (rope) and attaching a leash clip to it with a good knot, then make a knotted handle at the other end that stays around your wrist.



I've done the same thing in the Chesapeake Bay when my boy was a pup. We put him in a walking style harness with a long line attached to the back. Yes, it was annoying getting tangled and sandy but the peace of mind was worth it. If we ever take out them out in the canoe or a boat we'll get them flotation vests.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Wow, how many lives does that dog have? He does have a solid temperament to be playing ball after 90% of having drowned. He must have dodged many bullets before you took him in as well.
Please watch him closely as people even die after almost drowning (dry drowning) and make sure he doesn't develop pneumonia.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

At least somebody is willing to listen to me! Friends & family are getting feed up with my braging about my dogs... . Lately I'm not talking about anything else, so no wonder. :grin2: :grin2: :grin2:

Archie went probably through a lot in his life on the streets and learned a lot. I especially love Archies attitude towards other dogs. He will completely ignore them and avoid fights at all costs. Even if it means passing barking dog with tail between his legs and sending all calming signals possible (if you're stray dog any semi-serious injury probably means death). But don't get me wrong - this all ends when other dog won't leave him alone. He will turn into a total beast!!! > Teeth, growling, barking. And CONFIDENCE! I saw him scared away dog twice his size. I saw him chase away 3 dogs at the same time!! I saw him being in fight with 2 dogs at the same time, which after 2 bites he won. I saw him in stand off with pack of 6-8 dogs, which resulted with both side deciding to mind their business. Streets here are rough! And they raised a pretty rough Archie.

He observed, that my other dog (6 months old GSD girl) is sometimes scared of these dogs. So he on his own started to act as her bodyguard. 0 If there's a stray dog infront of us he will run first, stand close to him. And body block him from us. Then he will turn his head and watch us pass. If my girl doesn't feel like passing that particular dog, he will remove him from the road completely! Push him out of the road or chase him away. And it wasn't one time thing. He does this every single time with every single dog. :smile2: And you can tell that he is actually enjoying this! Once we pass he will run after us with huge smile, wagging tail and proud face.

He's like "you gave me home, let me take care of stray dogs, that's my specialty, that's my job!".

My GSD was already bitten by other dogs. And we were regularly in trouble when some dog charged at us and I have to body block him from my girl while trying to get her under control too. Since Archie joined us on our walks we didn't have a single problem. Any charging dog is quickly confronted by Archie. And any dog in our close proximity is always well aware who's the boss around here. Archie!!!

Which is also funny. Having purebred GSD. But alpha in your home being some stray mix. :laugh2:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Since you are now Charlie's owner, I think it is time for you to take charge instead of him. Pretty soon your GSD could join him in warding off other dogs and you can have a problem on your hands. When I took in strays or foster dogs, they had to live by my rules as soon as they set foot in my home, once physically healed.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Since you are now Charlie's owner, I think it is time for you to take charge instead of him. Pretty soon your GSD could join him in warding off other dogs and you can have a problem on your hands. When I took in strays or foster dogs, they had to live by my rules as soon as they set foot in my home, once physically healed.


Yes, this would work in the USA or Europe. :frown2: Asia and especially our village is infested by stray dogs. And even when they have owner, that are don't have fenced yards. And all these dogs are wild and extremely territorial. 

If you go for a long walk about 10 times you will get charged by other dogs. 9 of them will listen when you shout at them. But that 1 will try to get around you to your dog anyway. And then you have crazy GSD on a leash and crazy dog trying to bite her/get her out of his territory. 

Then you are glad that you have Archie, that will stand his ground and stop any approaching dog just by his look. :smile2: Especially when non of these dogs are vaccinated; last year we had 120 deaths from rabies. USA had 3 deaths (with it's population being 5x greater than us). :surprise:

----------------

Archie doesn't wander anymore. We have actually bonded stronger than with my GSD (she's crazy puppy at the time). When I'm outside he's like my shadow. When I'm inside he is waiting for me to come outside. On the walks he spends 80% of time in the heal position (without being taught to). I actually had to throw him ball and rocks to get him in front of me and take these photos. :grin2: He's not interested to go anywhere on his own anymore.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I am in awe of Archie's story and the last misadventure. I'm really glad both of you are ok. Do you have any guess how old he is? Sorry if you posted that already. He may not be a GSD but seems like his heart is. 

This is just food for thought that there might be interest for a book. All the right ingredients seem to be there for the making of one.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Heartandsoul said:


> I am in awe of Archie's story and the last misadventure. I'm really glad both of you are ok. Do you have any guess how old he is? Sorry if you posted that already. He may not be a GSD but seems like his heart is.
> 
> This is just food for thought that there might be interest for a book. All the right ingredients seem to be there for the making of one.


On the same shelf as 'Merle's Door'


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> I am in awe of Archie's story and the last misadventure. I'm really glad both of you are ok. Do you have any guess how old he is? Sorry if you posted that already. He may not be a GSD but seems like his heart is.
> 
> This is just food for thought that there might be interest for a book. All the right ingredients seem to be there for the making of one.


Thank you. It's really hard to tell his age. I wonder about that too. He might be 8. Or he might be 3 and be really beaten up by his life on the streets. Like, who knows?

His teeth are 100% ok. He doesn't have lenticular sclerosis (cloudy eyes), which is usual for dogs over 6 - 8 years old. He is playful and active like a young dog. He doesn't have any benign tumors, grows etc. I would say something like 3, 4, 5?

He's getting vaccinated this week. Maybe vet will have better guess.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Archie seems to be a survivor with many Angels! So glad you both met! Godspeed!!!


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I just looked up the reviews for that book. I'm going to see if the library has it or can get it. 

Andy, I hope you don't mind a suggestion. Since Archie has been a street dog and his body has been fighting horrible bacteria/infections for a while, it seems (even though he looked to be at deaths door when he came to you) that he probably has a pretty strong immune system.

Maybe requesting titer tests first before any vaccines. I know you said rabies is rampant but given the fact that Archie knows when and how to fight he may have already acquired a ton of natural antibodies for a lot of diseases where a vaccine would not be necessary.

Also, maybe check with that vet, he/she may have already given him a rabies shot and not mentioned it to you.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> I just looked up the reviews for that book. I'm going to see if the library has it or can get it.
> 
> Andy, I hope you don't mind a suggestion. Since Archie has been a street dog and his body has been fighting horrible bacteria/infections for a while, it seems (even though he looked to be at deaths door when he came to you) that he probably has a pretty strong immune system.
> 
> ...


Yes, he will get vaccinated by that young vet, who already knows him. So he knows exactly what he gave him.

I will ask about titer tests!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I wonder if he could be immune to rabies? That usually kills a dog once they are exposed. I think I wold give his body a break from fighting 'stuff' and wait with vaccines for a while. Titering is harmless as it doesn't add anything to his body and gives you plenty of info. This is such an interesting story.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Is there any chance that young vet might also consider neutering Archie for you? With so many street dogs and no fences to confine owned dogs, it seems like it might be a good idea.

I would also ask the vet about heartworms and lungworms. A monthly topical product called Advocate could help take care of them (even if he already has heartworms, it will start to slowly kill them).


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Magwart said:


> Is there any chance that young vet might also consider neutering Archie for you? With so many street dogs and no fences to confine owned dogs, it seems like it might be a good idea.


Please explain this one. He has survived so much. Let him keep his testicles in order not to confuse the strays. There must be some form of understanding among all these dogs in that area. Why do males need to undergo this mutational for no apparent reason? I wish this mentality would go away. It is abased on nothing, just is leading a life of its own.
Unless he has testicular cancer, let him be.
Like Selzer said in another thread; neutering doesn't make you a responsible dog owner, managing your dog does. When we know better, we should not be so clueless anymore.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

I was always against spraying/neutering. Until now; I was just thinking about it yesterday.

I won't definitely spray my 6 months old GSD girl. At the same time last thing I need is pregnant non-mature dog. And also last thing we need is 10 more GSD+stray puppies on the streets.

If I remember correctly, neutering is about $50. If anybody will go, it will be Archie. He should better enjoy licking these balls while he can. :grin2: 

Especially with his talent in breaking in and escaping. I have finally build fence around back of our house. Which is 100% GSD proof. But not Archie proof. I will lock them in back yard, go water plants in front yard. 30 seconds later Archie is watering plants with me. While my GSD girl is whining behind the fence for the entire time. >


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

- He was dewormed. As far as I know this works only on worms inside intestines and stomachache. Lungworms and heartworms will be discussed with vet.

- As far as I know you can't survive rabies. And you can't cure rabies. Which means if he would be ever exposed he would be dead.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

It sounds like rabies is more rampant there so rabies vaccine can only be a good idea. If Archie is to live outside- rabies vaccines are wise and would be good to spread them out and not over vaccinate and give one vaccine spaced out over time. Spaying and neutering advise in the other thread may be so much different then this thread. Spaying and neutering is over down and touted way to broadly but not to be condemned invidually such in this case as Archie is living outside and may have easy access to escape and add to the population of homeless dogs where spaying neutering sounds like a good idea over there. It is why spaying and neutering Gained so much ground in the first place- owners allowing intact dogs to roam. 
Neutering is not a bad idea if he is a roamer and lives outside and can easily escape - this is where common sense comes into play. Archie has gone through a lot if the decision is to neuter perhaps wait until he is healed and much stronger before neutering. I can’t wait to see after photos of what a good care and a good home can do!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Saw photos what a great life Archie will have now!!!


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

If you don't want to disrupt the hormone balance, vasectomy may be an option. From articles I've read, they are easier to do and less dramatic for the dog. 

I'm just offering another option that might fit better for Archie and your lifestyle and that you may not be aware of. 

Whatever you choose, you have been an amazing guardian for this guy.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Not arguing and vasectomies are a great choice but will not prevent Archie from the desire to roam which he had answered to the call of the wild his entire life however young he is. Dog living in the streets of Asia has many risk and with the Yukon festival coming up so glad archie is off the street. Neutering a dog when he is two is not a death sentence. A lot of pros and cons have to be weighed in before making the right decision for the right circumstance.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Archie is an adult dog and already set in his ways. Roaming is not always for breeding purposes; breed, habit, prey drive and boredom also add to that. A smart fence will do. I wish people would not neuter for convenience. If the sole purpose of neutering would be population control vs behavior modification, vasectomies should be promoted.
The US is way to relaxed about cutting off everything people find inconvenient or are clueless about: tails, ears, dew claws, vocal cords, uteruses, testicles. Anything that I have overlooked?
Anecdote, honestly happened: I once saw, standing in front of my window, a car stop. out came a Doberman Pincher and the car sped off. The dog was running back and forth in the street, completely disoriented. It took me quite some time to get a hold of him but I manged to take him inside. I called the police to report him and she asked me to describe him: "neutered male Dobermann, ears, cropped, tail docked, no dew claws." The police lady then commented, "And he still wasn't good enough?"


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Pyometra will affect one in three intact bitches. Usually between ages 7 and 9. 

If not treated, pyo is deadly. 30% of bitches will get pyo. 

Huge consideration when deciding to keep your bitch intact, if she isn't going to be used for breeding. 

I don't neuter my males, but there are good reasons to spay an older bitch.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

A smart fence will not keep a intact male dog - who will be kept outside, as he is most comfortable outside - whose was raised in the streets while multiple multiple female dogs in season roam the streets. Can’t see how neutering will be a con in this case at all. It will decrease the number one reason to roam. In a place where intacts dogs roam free. There is nothing good about letting intact dogs roam the streets now that is irresponsibility of one wants to talk about convenient living. This is not USA. There are countries which would benefit from spaying and neutering - it is not the devil in these countries just a step up. Reality some photos are not pretty- https://www.animalsasia.org/us/facts-about-the-abuse-of-dogs-and-cats-in-asia.html


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Heartandsoul said:


> I am in awe of Archie's story and the last misadventure. I'm really glad both of you are ok. Do you have any guess how old he is? Sorry if you posted that already. He may not be a GSD but seems like his heart is.
> 
> This is just food for thought that there might be interest for a book. All the right ingredients seem to be there for the making of one.


We just came back from the vet. According to him Archie is between 3 and 4 years old. Actually there were 2 vets and at the end they agreed on 3.5 years.

So my uneducated guess ("_I would say something like 3, 4, 5?_") was pretty close. :wink2:


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> A smart fence will not keep a intact male dog - who will be kept outside, as he is most comfortable outside - whose was raised in the streets while multiple multiple female dogs in season roam the streets. Can’t see how neutering will be a con in this case at all. It will decrease the number one reason to roam. In a place where intacts dogs roam free. There is nothing good about letting intact dogs roam the streets now that is irresponsibility of one wants to talk about convenient living. This is not USA. There are countries which would benefit from spaying and neutering - it is not the devil in these countries just a step up. Reality some photos are not pretty- https://www.animalsasia.org/us/facts-about-the-abuse-of-dogs-and-cats-in-asia.html



100% Get him neutered. If only to reduce the probability of the offspring being sold by the owners of the bitches he knocks up and those offspring facing an absolute horribly torturous painful death. As well, he could be darted by dog thieves, and so could your girl, stolen right out of your yard. There are professionals that do this. They steal family pets and sell to the dog meat market.


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

I finally found out full Archie's history. 

He's not interested in making friends with other dogs, like I said. But there was this one half stray/half owned dog, that he always loved. Given her untypical white fur etc. I always thought, that it might be his sister. After all these months I finally saw her with her owner. And it turned out, that she is actually Archie's mother! She had to had him at like 6 months, first heat, because she looks the same age, even younger.

Archie was born and than given to some people. Stayed with them for a 8 months until he stopped being a cute puppy. His living condition wasn't probably very good at that point, since he decided to leave them. He wondered streets for 1 month until he finally found his mother again. So owner of mother called them to pick him up. Few days later he left them again. Returned to mother, owner called them, but they never came to pick him up again. And he stayed next 2.5 - 3 years on the streets. Never going back to his owners and they never coming for him.

And then we meet.

No idea what was going on in his previous home, that he prefers streets over it. While he loves my house, never leaves and religiously is waiting for me going on a walk with him. Loves petting and human companion generally.

----

His real name is Niki. But he is reacting "weirdly" to it. So I'm sticking with Archie.  Owner of mother told me that I can keep him under condition, that I can't return him.

Also - mother is owned by a foreign (when he is in the country). I'm foreign too. Maybe that's the reason why he always followed me home and is so attracted to me. And why he is suspicious of my wife (local). Well treated by foreign while puppy, then some bad memories with locals, 3 years later he sees another foreign on the streets, so he jumps on that opportunity.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Wow. This could made into a movie. I'm so glad you and Archie found each other.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Very interesting bio on Arch!
Great dog


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Archie is a very lucky dog!


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Archies' story just keeps getting more amazing. Somehow it seems that you were meant to know this guy from his very beginnings.

I'm glad your sticking with the name Archie. I really like that name for him. Not that it would matter but just saying...


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

Archie, our drama queen. :laugh2: He just can't go 1 week without nearly dying/drowning/bleeding... . It wouldn't be fun!

Neighbors dog just finished nursing her puppies last month and she's in the heat again. And since they let her run lose around the neighborhood, we have crowds of excited dogs in front of our house. All day. All night. I thought, that I know almost every dog around here. But some of them have to be from different village, because I never saw them before. 

And Archie of course wants the female for himself. And also sees other dogs as trespassers on his territory (female in heat likes our unfenced front lawn). I'm trying to keep him behind the fence, so he don't get into fights. But keep a dog locked when there's a female in heat! Mission impossible.

Todays result is teared ear. 

And my GSD of course have to put her nose into everything, even photos... . :grin2:


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I'd say neuter him, but at this point, it probably won't change behaviors. Glad he is OK, those dog-dog fights over a bitch in heat can get deadly serious.


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