# Feeding a vegetarian diet



## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this. An acquaintance on a non-dog-related forum has seasonal issues with her dog's skin and someone else recommended a vegetarian diet as a possible resolution. I don't think the dog owner is likely to adopt one, but I'd like a little information I could pass along just in case it appears as though she's considering it.

I'm thinking if it's seasonal, it's more likely to be an environmental allergen anyway.

Thanks!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

IMO, dogs are NOT ment to be vegetarians. They are not herbivores. And I agree with you, if it was the food, it wouldn't be "seasonal".


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

paulag1955 said:


> I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this. An acquaintance on a non-dog-related forum has seasonal issues with her dog's skin and someone else recommended a vegetarian diet as a possible resolution. I don't think the dog owner is likely to adopt one, but I'd like a little information I could pass along just in case it appears as though she's considering it.
> 
> I'm thinking if it's seasonal, it's more likely to be an environmental allergen anyway.
> 
> Thanks!


i think it's the worse thing you can do.
if it's seasonal they should find out what it is that is causing that and fix that. also if it's seasonal i don't see how taking meat out will fix anything. she can research fish oil supplements, eggs, yogurt. even oatmeal and yogurt baths will help


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

I see no correlation between animal proteins and seasonal (airborne environmental) allergies, and don't think that a vegitarian diet would positively impact the seasonal allergy symptoms.

If your friend wants to truly narrow down what is causing her dog's symptoms and how she can treat them (or if she is suspecting some kind of a food allergy may be a part of the problem), maybe she should get an allergy test done to give her more insight.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Vegetarian diet for a carnivore? This would be an absolute last resort after every other possible diet has failed miserably.


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## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

I can't see how a veg. diet would help a seasonal allergy. I also don't think dogs are meant to be vegetarians- and I'm a vegan :crazy:


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I have a couple friends who are vegan and raise their dogs as vegetarians. Both dogs are notorious poop eaters. Connection? Possibly.

I think it is very hard to properly maintain a good balance of nutrients if you are trying to feed a very limited diet. Not saying it can't be done, I just think you just have to really know what you are doing. I personally would only use it as a last resort kind of thing.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Of course it sounds especially insane to me because Shasta would turn down vegetables in favor of dirt and rocks (just kidding!) if they were the last food on earth.


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## Salix (Feb 13, 2011)

paulag1955 said:


> I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this. An acquaintance on a non-dog-related forum has seasonal issues with her dog's skin and someone else recommended a vegetarian diet as a possible resolution. I don't think the dog owner is likely to adopt one, but I'd like a little information I could pass along just in case it appears as though she's considering it.
> 
> I'm thinking if it's seasonal, it's more likely to be an environmental allergen anyway.
> 
> Thanks!


Instinct tells us that dogs need animal meat. However I would challenge this. I think you will run into more difficulty preparing meals of adequate sustenance and the dogs may need to eat more frequently because it takes longer for animal meat/flesh to be digested. But I don't think it can't be done. And I don't think it's a crazy idea if you're very committed to it and in tune with your dog's nutritional needs/adequate replacements and supplements. I don't think this is something for the novice.

Dogs are actually omnivores for a balanced diet. They aren't carnivores. Berries, grasses, roots as well as good old animal meat. Denver is on a primarily fish (salmon) diet and I find this is sufficient. 

Denver had sores develop on his underbelly when he was exposed to beef or a red raw meat diet. This progressed to a staph infection. These sores that opened up due to the allergy to beef liver, minced beef and beef kidneys are about the size of a coin each. These sores become inflamed and itchy, flaky and ooze pus and other fluids. They progress all the way up the underside of his neck and are concentrated especially in his arm/leg pits and joints and his underbelly. They are painful and itchy and easily infected by bacteria. 

I was told that hormones in beef could play a big part in the allergic reaction. I ceased all beef products. 

Denver is fine with chicken and salmon. I have opted for the salmon diet. 

I am not sure about seasonal allergies. There's not enough information in the post - age of dog, change in diets recently, what the dog eats now, what exactly is the allergic reaction (descriptions?). If it's anything like Denver's, I think it has something to do with the hormones in red meat or an allergic reaction to the meat itself. You can try organic, antibiotic-free, totally natural meat from a brand or local farm and narrow it down from there. Or simply move to a fish diet.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Salix, I'm not trying to argue, just want as much info as I can get. Why do you think it would be food related if the symptoms only show up seasonally?


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Salix said:


> Dogs are actually omnivores for a balanced diet. They aren't carnivores. Berries, grasses, roots as well as good old animal meat. Denver is on a primarily fish (salmon) diet and I find this is sufficient.


Dogs are not omnivores, they are opportunistic carnivores. They cannot even digest plant matter unless you first break down the cellulose for them. And if they did need plant matter to survive then my dogs should have died ages ago, lol. Home cooked diets are much more time-consuming then feeding raw because there are so many components that you must derive from plant sources or supplements.

I don't think the food is the cause for seasonal allergies anyway. If the dog is eating the same food year round then I would nix that idea. Best solution would probably be an allergy panel if she could afford it, but even then I've heard they aren't too reliable.


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## Salix (Feb 13, 2011)

paulag1955 said:


> Salix, I'm not trying to argue, just want as much info as I can get. Why do you think it would be food related if the symptoms only show up seasonally?


My words weren't worded properly. Just edited it for clarity.  Not sure. I can't really figure out much from your initial post as there's not enough information. If it's seasonal, the owner might narrow it down to daily routine and figure out what his/her dog has come in contact with during specific seasons. I thought I'd share what Denver's allergy was like incase it was anything like it.


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## Salix (Feb 13, 2011)

Verivus said:


> Dogs are not omnivores, they are opportunistic carnivores. They cannot even digest plant matter unless you first break down the cellulose for them. And if they did need plant matter to survive then my dogs should have died ages ago, lol. Home cooked diets are much more time-consuming then feeding raw because there are so many components that you must derive from plant sources or supplements.


I don't think dogs need plant matter to survive but I know they benefit from plant matter. I decided not to use the raw diet for the obvious reasons above for my dog particularly but did look into it. Raw diets seem to (or the ones I looked into) also supplement raw meat with cooked vegetable or fruit. I was turned off the raw diet after what I saw with Denver but I could learn a thing or two if raw red meat is sufficient in a dog's diet and nothing else. I was always told that the dog needs supplements, capsule or otherwise, with the raw meat. Wrong impression? Genuinely curious here.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Salix said:


> Dogs are actually omnivores for a balanced diet. They aren't carnivores. Berries, grasses, roots as well as good old animal meat. Denver is on a primarily fish (salmon) diet and I find this is sufficient.


Dogs are not omnivores... they're carnivores. I don't care what the pet food companies want to tell you... they're not omnivores. They can digest berries, fruits, and other non-meats, but they're don't need it. All they need is a balanced meat, bone, and organ diet to live and thrive. 

Don't believe me? Ask their digestive system, their teeth, and their dna. All carnivore specific.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Dogs are not omnivores, they are opportunistic carnivores. They cannot even digest plant matter unless you first break down the cellulose for them. And if they did need plant matter to survive then my dogs should have died ages ago, lol. Home cooked diets are much more time-consuming then feeding raw because there are so many components that you must derive from plant sources or supplements.


I think this was well said and bears repeating. Truth is, if you look at a dog's digestive system, it's superbly set up for digesting meats - whereas the digestive system of, for example, humans is not. Sure, dogs will eat other things ... but their diet should be primarily meat products.

One thing I noticed - and maybe I'm wrong here - is that Salix seems to equate red meat and being a carnivore with a requirement for beef. But there are many non-beef options for raw. When I fed raw, chicken was one of our primary staple ingredients. We also did a fair bit of pork, fish, and other meats (bison, deer, etc.) when we could get them. It sounds to me like Salix's dog had an issue specifically with beef and is doing fine on a non-beef, meat-containing diet now.

The reason people supplement along with a raw diet is generally to ensure their dogs get the proper levels of all the necessary vitamins, minerals, etc. in their diet, since it isn't possible for most home-raw-preparers to get an absolute measurement of what levels the dogs do get with just the raw ingredients alone.

FWIW, the only "vegetables" I've ever fed with raw was pumpkin and the occasional carrot. The latter made for good treats if you have a dog who likes crunching carrots.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

AbbyK9 said:


> I think this was well said and bears repeating. Truth is, if you look at a dog's digestive system, it's superbly set up for digesting meats - whereas the digestive system of, for example, humans is not. Sure, dogs will eat other things ... but their diet should be primarily meat products.


Just look at a dogs mouth - that's plenty of evidence right there. A mouth with no molars to grind vegetables like how other omnivores have. Just sharp, pointy teeth to tear through meat and bones like nature created. If dogs were designed to eat greens, they'd have teeth for it.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

I think the digestive system makes the case better than the teeth.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

AbbyK9 said:


> I think the digestive system makes the case better than the teeth.


Does it? Food hits the teeth before it ever hits the digestive system. 

Really... I think both are more than enough to put the whole "dogs are omnivores" argument to rest.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Anyone ever heard of Bramble?

Vegetable-Eating Dog Lives to Ripe Old Age of 29; Also: Who is the Oldest Dog in the World; And: How to Make Your Dog Live 1.8 Years Longer

27 year old vegetarian?

Not that I believe it's ok to do this nor do I think a vegetarian diet will fix any seasonal allergies. Just interesting.  Though with a comparision to Bluey, who lived 29 years on mostly Emu and Kangaroo, I do feel a lot of this comes down to genetics and certain lifestyle differences such as exercise (Bluey was a herding dog and Brambles owner talks about making sure he got plenty of exercise) and being kept at a healthy weight regardless what is fed. I also have a theory that the amount of WATER a dog gets each day plays a plays a big role. (I think there is more to it than just laying a bowl dog for the dog to drink as they please) And organic vegetables are going to be healthier than hormone and antibiotic injected meats. :/


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

A friend with an English bulldog had great success by mixing in local honey into her dog's food. Cleared up that dog's seasonal allergies.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Lucy Dog said:


> Vegetarian diet for a carnivore? This would be an absolute last resort after every other possible diet has failed miserably.


 
Agreed.

Vegetarian diets are good when the last resort, but I don't understand why people try to make a dog follow their chosen eating plan. Dogs in the wild are not going to hunt down veggies, they are going for the meat. If they are eating poo that would tell me they are probably missing somthing in the diet. Just like when cats (with higher protein in food generally), dogs will go after the cat poo (not all dogs - but I believe those dogs sense something that they are missing). Not good to play with mother nature.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Someone donated a bag of Nature's Recipe "Vegetarian" and I won't even feed it to the dogs here. It's all soy...


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## ElzbietaP (Sep 16, 2014)

*YES, vegan dog food does wonders to my German Shepherd!*

Dear Paula, YES, your friend's GSD WILL benefit from the vegan (not even vegetarian, but vegan) diet. And the skin issues will go away literally within days if she puts her pup on vegan food. 

The one I use is called Evolution Diet Pet Food. Yes, it's little bit pricey, but what I've noticed, the food lasts longer since my fur-kid gets all the nutrients and so she does not have the urge to overeat anymore. Besides, I asked myself a question: "Would I rather spend the money on constant visits to the vet, antibiotics and all that, or would I rather use that money for food that's doing wonders to my fur-kid?" 

In the picture here, you see my 11 years old vegan German Shepherd (Nel) - hiking with us on an uphill trail. Her energy level increased since the transition to vegan food as well. 

If you want to know plenty of more benefits derived from feeding my German Shepherd with vegan dog food, visit my blog in which I explain everything, provide the pictures of my GSD in which you can see her skin problems before, and after the vegan food.... Here's the link:Vegan German Shepherd ~ life realized


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ingredients "
*Ingredients:*
Whole Non-GMO Oats, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Meal, Soybean Oil, Carrots, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Potato Product, Dried Molasses, Deflourinated Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Nutritional Yeast, Arginine, DL-Methionine, Kelp Meal, Taurine, Garlic, Enzyme Bromelain from Pineapple Stem and Fruit, Enzyme Papain from Papaya, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidum fermentation product, Lysine, Choline Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D2 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Thiamin Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite complex, Folic acid, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Inositol, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Zinc Methionine Complex, Copper Lysine Complex, Manganese, Methionine Complex, L-Carnitine, Arachidonic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Cobalt Glucoheptonate."

no thanks . I would have thought that the vitamins would have come from greens, whole food , berries, fruit , not the standard vitamin pre-mix probably from some lab in China.

lacking in full amino acids , and minerals. Survive maybe, thrive , it's a stretch.

There are better "vegan" choices , hemp flour , seeds being as complete an amino acid profile as a plant source can be , both essential and non essential amino acids.

Dogs aren't vegans . Ran into this while being an invited participant in Toronto's Raw and Vegan festival , first and second year .


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