# Recent breeder visit



## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

Hello!

My wife and I recently visited a breeder and when visiting some 8 week old puppies she had (father was the breeder's dog, mother was the breeder's friend's dog, and the breeder was temporarily taking care of these puppies), we noticed they walked a bit funny, as if they were squatting/extending their back legs back as they walked and flicking their front legs up. Is this irregular? The puppies' nails' were not trimmed and looked very long, so perhaps they were just avoiding walking on their long nails? Or this is just how puppies walk?

Additional information: 
kennels are in her backyard/charges $900 per pup
dogs are in show competitions
clearly passionate/knowledgeable about the breed
clean kennels/lots of room for puppies to exercise when let out
breeding dogs are OFA cleared and heart/eyes/thyroids/etc are vet checked

Any insight? Or does anyone know of good breeders in the $800-1000 range in NJ? This is the best option we have found for our price range so we really want it too work.

Phil


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

why do you think they are a backyard breeder, when they are showing their dogs, are knowledgeable, clean and dogs are ofa'd??? Just curious..

How old are the puppies?


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## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

Whoops, forgot to mention they were 8 weeks (but looked a bit small/younger than that). The kennels are in her backyard and she sells insurance for a living. Maybe I'm using the wrong term for her?

(Edited the first post)


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think most of us think of a backyard breeder as being someone who just breeds with no thought/reason, no health clearances, doesn't show their dogs,,jsut doing it for the money..

Puppies are clutzy/gangly/ unbalanced when young, so it very well could be just that, they are young, and clutzy..

Do they have a website?? You can pm it to me if you'd like, no expert, but I do know red flags when I see them


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

the long nails would be a bit of a concern for me. Most breeders regularly trim them beginning very early(so they aren't digging into mom when nursing!) and then keep it up so pups get use to being handled and groomed. If you don't feel comfortable, pass. 
I think I'd be more interested in the pedigrees and how they match up...is this a breeding out of convenience or chosen to compliment the individual dogs lines? 
Sounds to me that it is out of convenience.


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## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm not sure about the litter we just saw, but the upcoming litter was planned and both the mom and dad are two of her favorite dogs. After doing tons of research, I'm seeing no red flags except the funny walks. The two pups we saw were the last two of the litter, so perhaps they are just the ones that were less confident and smaller?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Are these American showline pups? They often move funny because they have very loose joints, and the extreme angulation can cause them to walk on their hocks, which is probably what they were doing. 

Did you see the parents move/walk around? If their gait seems normal, then the pups will probably improve as they age, but that is not a guarantee.


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## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

The father was an American showline, the mother has not been showed as far as we know. They weren't completely down on their hocks, but were angled like you are describing. What you are mentioning fits this situation a lot. Didn't see the dad walk around (it was a very short visit) but when we go for a longer visit later, we will definitely ask to see. 

Is extreme angulation unhealthy? What are the risks?


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

There are no "risks" to extreme angulation based on general pets. 

Sounds to me like you went to an American show line kennel. AmLines (and some Euro show lines) can walk funny for awhile, but unless they're SUPER extreme, most of them grow out of it (especially as their ligamentation tightens up).

Did they move kind of like this?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would not want a German Shepherd pup that is down on the pasterns or hocks as in that video...


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## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

That is just like how it walked! Except it was a bit more wobbly because it was younger.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

They (generally) grow out of it.

Here's the same bitch now:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the dog in the video is moving on his feet , not his hocks , and is not down in the pasterns. not bad

"clearly passionate/knowledgeable about the breed
clean kennels/lots of room for puppies to exercise when let out
breeding dogs are OFA cleared and heart/eyes/thyroids/etc are vet checked"


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> I would not want a German Shepherd pup that is down on the pasterns or hocks as in that video...


Well, I guess it's good she wasn't given to you then. Wesson's proven to be a great dog for me.

Puppies change. A lot.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

is that the same dog as in the pup video ?

see -- not bad --- nice ! 

deserves the title Ch.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Yup, same dog, Carmen.

She needs 1 major to finish. She has been shown on a limited basis, entirely owner handled (which has not always been easy for me, physically speaking). She just turned two on the 8th of this month.

Thank you for the compliment as well


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

carmspack said:


> is that the same dog as in the pup video ?
> 
> see -- not bad --- nice !
> 
> deserves the title Ch.


I agree. I've always been a Wesson fan!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't see the puppy (wesson) walking on her hocks either,,she is on her feet, her hocks may look a tad low, but she's not walking on them to my eye anyhow. Puppies go thru all kinds of weird stages when they are young..

I know I pm'd you, but would like to add, if you like the parents of these puppies, if you like what the breeder is doing, health wise, testing etc..go with your gut. 

I'm not a fan that their nails weren't clipped, but that would be last on my list of what I was looking at ...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Xeph said:


> Well, I guess it's good she wasn't given to you then. Wesson's proven to be a great dog for me.


Wesson was given to you?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Let's stay on topic please.  ADMIN


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> I'm not a fan that their nails weren't clipped, but that would be last on my list of what I was looking at ...


Same. I am really anal about nails, but I do know plenty of breeders that are not anal about them in wee babies. And it could also be that puppy nails just didn't have time to be clipped before you came.

Sometimes it just slips the mind. Sounds like overall the puppies were very healthy, happy, and the kennels were clean. Nothing there that stands out as a red flag to me, and just from the description, sounds like a nice breeding operation.


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