# another question about raw



## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

dh & i sat here for like an hour going over the rawdogranch.com website & a couple other, & this section of the forum. our calculations said that beamer would be eating about 1.6 or something lbs a day? she is 77lbs & 1 year, 2 days old.

dh brought up that right now she eats 3 cups of canidae chicken & rice a day, sometimes 4. he thought that eating 1 or so lb of meat would never fill her up, is that right? we were under the impression that she gets full between breakfast & dinner because of the rice in the canidae.

im sure were wrong & probably sound like idiots, just curious because i think were gonna try raw & dont want to get enough for her to have 1lb a day & then end up having a very hungry dog.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

My two little guys weigh almost the same amount - 22 - 25 pounds. Winnie the Corgi mix gets 4.5 ounces of food each meal. Tazer the Cocker gets 7.5 ounces. They each maintain their weight on those amounts.

The calculations are a guideline for starting out. I tell people to weight their dogs after the first week and adjust the amounts as necessary.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

what happens if she is still hungry after breakfast? do i feed her more, i know sometimes they say dogs will just keep eating, eating, eating just because..


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

The feeling of being "full" comes as much from the weight of the food and the caloric density as the volume. Think of eating peanut butter vs. a big tub of plain popcorn. You'd never feel full on popcorn. But a couple tablespoonsfull of peanut butter would satisfy pretty well. Same idea. 

My raw fed dogs don't ever act like they are hungry after a meal. 

One trick I used when putting Luca on a "diet" was to replace part of his normal food with green beans. They are practically calorie-free and helped make up for the meat I removed from the meal. 

You could do something like that, at least to start, to give your dog more food, and then gradually wean him off the filler. Rice as a filler has a good deal of calories--it's pure starch (sugar.) Green beans are practically nothing but fiber.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: chelsour calculations said that beamer would be eating about 1.6 or something lbs a day?
> 
> dh brought up that right now she eats 3 cups of canidae chicken & rice a day, sometimes 4
> 
> he thought that eating 1 or so lb of meat would never fill her up, is that right?


I am confused because first you say 1.6 pounds then you say 1 pound, but I'll try and answer the 1 pound question. . .

The canidae chicken and rice contains 468 kcal/cup according to their website. If your dog eats between 3 and 4 cups a day then your dog is receiving 1404-1872 calories a day and would need the same amount of calories on raw foods. 

The amount of calories in one pound of meat varies by the type of meat you are feeding. Do you know what you are planning on feeding? 

You can look up caloric info on the usda website, although it doesn't give reference for bone in pieces, http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Just for examples sake USDA says that for 'Poultry food products, ground turkey, raw' there is 676 kcal per pound. So one pound of turkey would not be enough to fulfill your dogs caloric needs.

USDA says that for 'Beef, ground, 80% lean meat / 20% fat, raw' there is 1151 kcal per pound. So one pound of chuck wouldn't fulfill your dogs caloric needs either.

A chicken quarter provides 1168 calories per pound- not enough for your dog either.

So I would say no, 1 pound of meat will not be enough food for your dog.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

i'm pretty sure the exact calculation was 1.6lbs
dh was thinking like 3lbs would fill her.

sorry for the confusion, i am completely new to this.
we arent sure what we plan on feeding yet, i was hoping someone on this site could give me some ideas. all i know is that your supposed to start with chicken..


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

No worries. Getting started is the hardest part. 

The "ballpark" math for figuring out how much raw to feed is 2-3% of the dogs weight. 

If your dog weighs 77 pounds, then that is 1.54-2.31 pounds of food per day. 

Your figure of 1.6 is in that rage, but at the bottom end. 

But even the range I gave you is just the starting point. Every dog (just like every person) has a different metabolism and activity level. The way to start is to pick an amount within the suggested range, feed that for a week, then see if your dog has gained or lost weight. 

3 pounds of food will definitely be too much, IMO, unless your dog is extraordinarily active. 

BTW--I often just tell people that an adult GSD eats 2 pounds of food a day. That's pretty much smack in the middle of the range that you get when you do the math for most any breed-standard dog. It's easy to use that number to calculate in your head when you're buying food too. 14 pounds of food will last a week. 

I think your idea of starting with chicken is a good one. Most dogs tolerate it well and the bones are easy to chew and digest. If you want to dive in to raw feeding, buy some chicken--either whole chickens, or leg quarters, and start feeding the dog 2 pounds of chicken per day, split into two meals of one pound each. 

If after several days to a week of doing this and your dog seems to be digesting the food well (no poop issues), then you can move on to adding something new to the diet--say, beef heart or turkey. 

The size of the meals will stay the same--you'll just swap part of the chicken you were feeding with the new item. 

You'll continue to add new foods into the dogs diet in this way, providing as much variety as you can find and afford. 

Along the way, the very best indicator of what to do is to WATCH THE DOG. Watching the dog's weight, the condition of his poop, and his overall appearance (coat, ears, eyes) will tell you if the diet is working. 

And we're here to guide you along with as many questions as you need answered.


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## GrandJan (Aug 11, 2006)

I have a question about feeding very little food to an overweight dog. My Beau weighs 103 lbs. and eats 28-30 oz. of food per day. He is in excellent shape and looks good. My Chance weighs 112 lbs. and eats 24-26 oz. per day. He is built like a mastiff (very broad between his neck and rear) and, to me, looks overweight although he is as solid as a rock. He is much less active than Beau, and has a much calmer nature. Also, he does not act hungry and will sometimes pass up an evening meal.

I cannot bring myself to feed him any less, but I really feel he is just too big. I’m worried about health and/or physical problems down the road. Any suggestions?

As an aside, both dogs are GSD/Anatolian mixes, but neither breed is known to be excessively broad or bullish-built.

(Sorry if this is off topic. Feel free to move it if it is.)


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

If you asked my Cocker he would tell you we starve him. He is ALWAYS hungry after every meal. And during the meal and 24 hours a day!!

He's the one that got into a 40 lb box of defrosting chicken necks, at about 3 pounds worth and then had the NERVE to be upset that he didn't get dinner that night!!

I don't go on how the dog acts. I go on their actual weight. If they are maintaining a good weight then they are getting enough food.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: GrandJanMy Chance weighs 112 lbs. and eats 24-26 oz. per day. He is much less active than Beau, and has a much calmer nature. Also, he does not act hungry and will sometimes pass up an evening meal.


This is a great example of the different metabolism's dogs have. Some are highly active, some are not and some are in between. If the dog is refusing a meal and you feel that he is overweight then I would reduce the amount of calories fed.

Often when we reduce calories we reduce volume which can leave the dog hungry or in your case an owner that is fretting the dog isn't getting enough. For situation like this I would reduce the amount of the food you normally feed and replace the volume with a food that doesn't have many calories like potatoes, green beans or pumpkin. This way the dog still feels full, but has fewer calories which should equal weight loss.

I know it is sometimes hard, but it's necessary to their health to keep them at a healthy weight and with the dog sometimes refusing a meal I think you know what you should do.









Penny recently needed to lose a few pounds due to a leg injury and inactivity. I have been splitting one, sometimes two, meals from one day portions into two day portions. I think this method is okay for short term.


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## GrandJan (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks, Natalie. It is hard because Beau gulps down his food whereas Chance plays with it a while until he decides to eat. I usually have to call him to meals, but Beau knows the different sounds that mean his supper is coming and then he does the "Here I Am" dance.

I will try adding fillers, but it's still hard to fathom how he can eat so little and be so big.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

I did the green bean diet with Luca for a few months. When he started herding, the teacher thought he was looking a little tubby. So I started reducing his meals by 4 ounces and replacing it with a handfull of frozen green beans. He liked them, and didn't miss the food since his bowl was still full.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

thanks everyone!! i will definitely have more questions im sure. lol.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: GrandJan.
> 
> I will try adding fillers, but it's still hard to fathom how he can eat so little and be so big.


Ah Jan. It's all about physics (and I guess, biomechanics too). Energy in, energy out. He's not burning much energy, so he doesn't need much fuel. A smaller person who moves all the time (a gymnast, jockey or ice skater perhaps) burns more calories than a large person who just hangs out at home. In the past, when my dogs look like they've gained a pound or two, my first response is to see if I can get them moving more, often much more (as long as there's no health reasons that's keeping them from moving). Another walk. Jogging laps around the house. Another game of fetch (or throwing the ball further each time). More energy output. Then they can continue to eat what seems like a "reasonable" amount of food -- "reasonable" being based on their weight and such. 

If increased output doesn't do the trick, they go on a diet. Reduced input of fuel.

But if your big guy is not even eating all his food, then he doesn't need it. You don't overfill your car's gas tank. There's only so much fuel that an engine can use at a given time. It's pretty much the same thing with our dogs' (and our) metabolisms. 

And my dogs always act like they're starving. I take it as a compliment; they like my cooking! Camper usually looks at me like the kid in "Oliver": "May I have some more?"

Zamboni always acts famished. But she's beagle. It's a breed thing with her.







But they get what they need, what they can finish in one meal and maintain a healthy weight and activity level. (And I account for treats in this equation too). 

Calories are nothing but measures of energy. Fuel in/Fuel out. Our dogs are little engines.


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