# how much time is REALLY required?



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i feel my dog has all the traits of being a schutzhund dog but i'm wary of a huge time commitment. right now i take my dog to the park and "train" an hour about 3 times a week. its just playing fetch with all of his commands added. how much time is really required to get a title for an average person? i'm not talking about the hardcore train all the time type of people. i have other commitments and priorities over getting a title on my dog. how much time and effort does it take to get a bh and sch1 title? or do you have to be completely dedicated and make it your number 1 priority? 

also whats with all the driving? why do people say they spend so much money on gas and lodging? are you required to travel to events or something? also why do people say they spend a lot on the sport? isnt it just club fees and a few equipment here and there? i want to at least get a bh for my dog but i hear people on here say that schutzhund is a take over your life kind of commitment. is that exaggerated or is that for real?

and last question! if i join a club, is it frowned upon if i dont go every week? to be completely honest, if i'm out super late on a friday night having a good time, the last thing i want to do is wake up early to take my dog to training. can i go at my own pace or would it be frowned upon as it makes me appear i dont take the sport seriously? thanks!


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Obedience is easy if you can train obedience. 3 times a week for a few minutes at a time is plenty to get a bh on a dog when it's old enough if you get it as a puppy. If you, your dog and your helper are good and you can train more than once a week, it shouldn't take too much more than that to do bitework either. 

Tracking can vary depending on the dog. figure on at least one or two summers tracking at least 3 times per week, every week if not more. I go at least 5 days a week for 2-3 weeks when imprinting, then 4-5 days a week for about a month, then i vary from none to 4 times a week for the rest of summer and into the next. 

Some I know track for a lot longer before they attempt a trial. 

Everybody drives, because there aren't good helpers all that accesible. I've done about all I can with my dogs myself. I have one guy that is an hour away that can do some stuff once I have the foundation on my dogs, but to get a really good training type helper so I don't have to do any of the work, I have to drive about 3-4 hours one way.

I guess I wouldn't expect a club to take me seriously if I wasn't there every week taking it seriously. We all know things happen, but things that drive other members nuts is when the person acts like nobody else has a life outside of dogs so their schedule becomes more important. We're doctors, lawyers, IT directors, electrical engineers, pipe fitters and everything else under the sun, with kids, families etc. On the other hand, club members that are retired and don't do anything else other than dogs have to understand that things do come up and sometimes people will be gone. Most are pretty understanding, but you always have some that are on the extremes on both sides. I've sat with members steaming at other members for being 5 minutes late. I knew why they were late, the TD only allowed one dog on the field at a time and gave 45 minute personal training for each dog every weekend and everyone was getting tired of sitting there all day. Most have a few hours they can commit to, not many of us have entire days to waste sitting at a field we can't get on. 

If you want to show well at a Sch I trial, yes, it is over a year of your life commitment, unless you have access to a dog with some foundation, the right age, and a helper that you can work with daily. Doing bitework 3 times a week is nice, doing it once a week or less, well, the dogs don't train themselves.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

Hi boomer!

Yes, SchH /IPO is going to be a commitment. 
Time-wise, money and travel-wise, if you really get into it. (as in any dog sport)

For those interested in it, they are usually very dedicated, give up a lot of other things to participate. 
At least I do.

IMO, If you don't think you can commit, don't even start. 

You can go to some OB classes for obedience training if you don't want/can't commit to a sport.
There's nothing wrong with that. At all.

JMO.
 Kat


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Good post crackem. 

Most clubs have limited time and resources and there are not clubs in every town. If you would rather party on Friday nights than don't waste the club's time and find something else to do with your dog. Yes, there is a commitment involved in both time and to the club itself. Of course you could also find a hired sleeve to work with and pay for your training. Then you can come and go when you feel like it and it will technically only be your own money that you are wasting.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Look up where your nearest club is, you'll realize why it takes a lot of driving. I'm in the largest city in Wisconsin, and our closest clubs are an hour away.

When I asked this question...my answer was "a lot." And its true. It pretty much becomes your only hobby. Tracking is the biggest time commitment. For your dog to do it successfully you have to practice. Laying a proper foundation and then training on from there takes hours upon hours every week.

The club thing...if you won't be committed they won't take you seriously. If you've read the posts on here about clubs being "stuck up" and not letting people join, its because they don't have the time to waste with someone that's going to be excited for a month and then stop coming because they can't commit the time to it. Plus, when you come to training, they'll know if you have worked your dog during the week or you haven't. Although you might not get up front backlash, you'll see people putting in less effort into training you and your dog, probably not really wanting to socialize with you, and then you'll just end up leaving because you won't be "fitting in."

But the truth is...you'll see that at all dog training clubs, not just Schutzhund. The people that have a goal of trialing/showing will always get more attention from the instructors than those that don't. Say someone wants to get a BH in a year, and you want to do it "whenever he's ready." Well...the helper and trainer are going to focus more on the other person, who has a set goal, than the one that's just dabbling...its just human nature.

I don't do Schutzhund for that exact reason. I can't afford the time. I like to play golf on Sundays in the summer. Sometimes other commitments pop up on the weekends that have to be taken care of, and so until I can make Schutzhund my only commitment...I'm not going to do that training.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

boomer11 said:


> i feel my dog has all the traits of being a schutzhund dog but i'm wary of a huge time commitment. right now i take my dog to the park and "train" an hour about 3 times a week. its just playing fetch with all of his commands added. how much time is really required to get a title for an average person? i'm not talking about the hardcore train all the time type of people. i have other commitments and priorities over getting a title on my dog. how much time and effort does it take to get a bh and sch1 title? or do you have to be completely dedicated and make it your number 1 priority?
> 
> also whats with all the driving? why do people say they spend so much money on gas and lodging? are you required to travel to events or something? also why do people say they spend a lot on the sport? isnt it just club fees and a few equipment here and there? i want to at least get a bh for my dog but i hear people on here say that schutzhund is a take over your life kind of commitment. is that exaggerated or is that for real?
> 
> and last question! if i join a club, is it frowned upon if i dont go every week? to be completely honest, if i'm out super late on a friday night having a good time, the last thing i want to do is wake up early to take my dog to training. can i go at my own pace or would it be frowned upon as it makes me appear i dont take the sport seriously? thanks!


If you don't go every week, how much progress do you think you'll make? Going at your own pace may be fine, but dogs only have so much time before they retire, lol. Most dogs that are involved in the sport WANT to work, they enjoy training so going at your own pace may not be the best for your dog. As well as rushing a dog may not be in its best interest.

Tracking is usually done at dawn,because in most locations, that is when there is dew on the ground, it isn't overly hot out and tracking conditions are the best. I more often than not track evenings, but do track with my club weekly in the morning.

I think most of the people involved in the sport enjoy it, are addicted to it and change their lifestyle to accomodate it. 
If you do dabble, don't be surprised at the lack of support, because those that are dabblers are usually the ones the either pay to train or aren't progressing at a rate that most clubs require. 
The most costly thing for me(other than the initial equipment) is the fuel. I don't pay for lodging when trialing if I can avoid it. 
I pay to train at one place, and I also belong to a club. I enjoy training so paying during the week with another helper/field is worth it for me. 
Though, I stay on one program and take it to whereever I train.
I drive 2 hours to the club every week and one hour to the pay to train a couple times a week. Happy right now because gas prices have come down some!
When trials are coming up, the members that are trialing get priority as far as field time goes. That is a given(or should be!) at most clubs, pay to train places.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i have the well trained, highly socialized, go-everywhere dog
and it took a lot more training than 1 hour 3 times a week.



boomer11 said:


> i feel my dog has all the traits of being a schutzhund dog but i'm wary of a huge time commitment.
> 
> >>>>> right now i take my dog to the park and "train" an hour about 3 times a week. <<<<<
> 
> ...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I train at least three days a week with my club, I train everyday on my own. When I track I try and get at least three days a week. 

For cost, I have club dues, USA membership, fuel cost (I only have to travel an hour each direction), and I'm also a helper so I have all my helper equipment. 

From a helper standpoint, if you don't want to show up and put the time in your dog on and off the field then neither do I. If you show up every week and work your dog during the week as well, then I will bend over backwards to help you (weather the dog is capable or not). But if you just want to show up whenever you feel like and only work your dog when at the training field then I'm not going to put very much energy into you or your dog. I have an entire club of dogs to work so I need to save my energy and mental state for those who are putting in the time. 

We all have lives and other things we like to do. Before dogs I raced cars and motorcycles. In the last two years I have done one motorcycle race and only been on the bike four times. My race car has been just about together for the last year and I haven't even touched it. We all make sacrifices and decide what we would rather be doing. Now if you miss a few times that's one thing, but when you start only showing up once a month then....


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Good training takes commitment. I trained Hunter on my own, in all weather, regularly every week (4+ days a week) for 2 years. Doing PSA and IPO, I train all day 3 days a week. Doesn't include member fees, trial fees, trial time, extra training prior to a trial, shows, etc... man... I feel like half my life is dog training/trialing/showing... haha.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

when i'm out training with my 6 month pup he just oozes with eagerness and focus and his body language just looks like he wants more more more. the problem i have is that i own a business that doesnt give me a set schedule. i could be free at 3 pm one day and 8 pm the next (depending what has to be done). i didnt say i wasnt willing to train my dog, its just that i cant make commitments to show up at a certain time every single week. right now i really just want a bh. that is mostly obedience and would allow me to train my dog whenever i am free. i just want to show up to the obedience portion to get some sort of direction and guidance as i want my dog to do his obedience the correct way. i'm not asking anyone to work my dog and i dont think i really would be wasting anyones time. i just want to soak up all the tips and have someone there to ask questions if i have any. i feel like with the tracking and obedience portion i could do a lot of it whenever i'm free. i mean if i pay club fees is it frowned up? i'm really just there because i want advice and instruction from people that are knowledgeable. heck i dont even need to bring my dog along. 

the schutzhund club is only 10 miles from my house so gas is not a problem for me. they train obedience and protection at a large field that a local high school lets them use. 

also is there any schutzhund training videos that are geared towards just the bh? i feel i could train the bh completely on my own with help from a couple of friends and family.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The USCA site is now offering a BH tutorial video..I have no idea if it would be helpful to get ready to trial, but it is there for $25 for USCA members. 

Is the club that is local to you a WDA or USA club?


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Bob_Armstead | Oklahoma City, OK 73116

i dont know what type of club that is? i actually havent visited the website in awhile. if the training is from 8-1pm only on sundays its actually not too bad. do clubs train year round even in the snow?


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Time wise it typically takes 2-4 years to get a IPO3 on a dog that is capable. You will need to find a good training group and dedicate 3-6 hours at least 3 times a week.


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

I am a member of that club and it is excellent. During the hot months, typically only protection is done formally on Sunday's, but now that it is cooler there is tracking at the school, followed by obedience and then protection about 10 miles away. The club is part of DVG (a schutzhund training organization).

DVG AMERICA Main Menu


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

boomer11 said:


> when i'm out training with my 6 month pup he just oozes with eagerness and focus and his body language just looks like he wants more more more. the problem i have is that i own a business that doesnt give me a set schedule. i could be free at 3 pm one day and 8 pm the next (depending what has to be done). i didnt say i wasnt willing to train my dog, its just that i cant make commitments to show up at a certain time every single week. right now i really just want a bh. that is mostly obedience and would allow me to train my dog whenever i am free. i just want to show up to the obedience portion to get some sort of direction and guidance as i want my dog to do his obedience the correct way. i'm not asking anyone to work my dog and i dont think i really would be wasting anyones time. i just want to soak up all the tips and have someone there to ask questions if i have any. i feel like with the tracking and obedience portion i could do a lot of it whenever i'm free. i mean if i pay club fees is it frowned up? i'm really just there because i want advice and instruction from people that are knowledgeable. heck i dont even need to bring my dog along.
> 
> the schutzhund club is only 10 miles from my house so gas is not a problem for me. they train obedience and protection at a large field that a local high school lets them use.
> 
> also is there any schutzhund training videos that are geared towards just the bh? i feel i could train the bh completely on my own with help from a couple of friends and family.


It's not that its frowned upon...its just like cobra mentioned...people won't put a lot of energy into helping you or your dog. And trust me, you'll notice. When you're paying the same fees as someone else, and not getting the same benefit, its not going to make you happy.

I guess my question would be, why do you feel the need to get a BH? If you're looking for mainly obedience titles, you could go the AKC route and the training is a lot more regimented and you'll probably achieve more titles that way. I don't think you have to worry about the fact that your dog wants to do more and that means he has to do Schutzhund. There are a lot of other sports out there that aren't as time consuming and will still give your dog the work he needs.

I can't speak for all clubs, but the ones I've checked out, within minutes I knew I wouldn't fit. My goal wasn't a SchH3...and so I just got the vibe that the helper and the training director didn't care to work with me much. Pretty much didn't even want to continue the conversation at that point. You should expect most clubs to be more volunteer organizations and not really profit making businesses. The people there want to work dogs, get titles, and just enjoy working their dogs. They're not out there to make money. So even if you think you're paying someone and so they should give you 100%, they don't usually care that much about your $20 that day. They'd rather get $20 from someone else who cares more and you're just taking up their time.

If you've never trained a dog to trial or show...I don't think you'll be very successful doing it off of a video or with help from friends. You need experienced people to look at your training and to tell you what YOU are doing wrong. You'll be able to spot the mistakes your dog makes...but not the mistakes you're making. You're also likely to run into a speed bump or two that the video won't tell you how to get over. It will give you one or two options, but neither will work with your dog. You'll need someone more experienced to come up with a different idea. This is something that I see happen all the time...

I know Schutzhund is cool and definitely "the sport" to do when it comes to having a GSD. But I don't think you need to feel like you NEED to do it. Other sports are just as good and just as fun if you're not really looking to do protection. You can easily get AKC obedience titles, agility titles, AKC tracking titles, ect.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to see so many discouraging posts for someone who has stated his goals, wants to work with his dog and learn some proper training, and decided to try his hand in SchH. Why? He's doing all the right things so why discourage that?

OP: there's nothing wrong with giving it a shot. Schutzhund is addicting. I started with my own puppy 4 years ago not knowing if I was going to train a month, a year, or a lifetime. My original goals were to have a well trained dog. I found a club and started training and got hooked. You don't HAVE to commit to an IPO3 the moment you start, you just have to commit (IMO) to work on your own and make steady improvements.

Check out the club, talk to them about your goals. IMO a good club is the single most effective way to improve. The club members have probably already done what you are doing, and have faced similar issues that you will face and can direct you as needed. I say go check them out! AS for wasting their time, the only people who's time can be wasted IMO are the helpers, since they need energy for each dog and are taking a beating every time they train. The club members I know LOVE to help new people, are usually doing this for fun, and will only distance themselves from your if they see that you are not taking in the advice, working at home, and making improvements.

Try it out, see what works. You don't HAVE to do protection, IMO, you only HAVE to do obedience if you are doing protection. Otherwise, OB or Tracking you won't be wasting anyone's time and clubs are in need of dedicated members so go check them out!! 

Now, AS for your question:
We do Obedience 7 days a week - my dog gets hectic if I don't, your dog might need less or more. 
We track 3-4 days a week, but up to 6 days a week the month before a trial - again, my dog needs to work consistently otherwise he cannot contain himself and stay focused. Your dog might need less work due to motivation issues, or whatever.
Protection we do once or twice a week. 

It's a lot of ups and downs, but you will both come out better for it in the end 

Good luck!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think anyone's being discouraging, they're just being truthful. I like to see that someone is realistic about their goals and the time they have available to commit to the sport. I'm the same way...I know I don't have the time to do it, and I have other things I'm interested in. On top of that...my experiences with clubs have been what they've been. When you're not making that commitment to train consistently, you don't get the same support. That type of feeling isn't very good and quickly turns someone sour or against the club/sport. I've had it happen to plenty of people at my obedience club...they just don't realize why someone with a goal of a UDX gets more help than them who just show up once a week and train their dog for that 45 minutes.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'll go based on when I was training Nikon before his title. I have not written off SchH completely but at present, I do not have the time and $$$ to train to the level that I personally expect of myself in order to trial respectably. 

Back then, I was training with a club 1-2 times a week. There was a venue change about halfway through our journey to our SchH1 title. At first I drove 2 hours twice a week, then I was driving 1.5 hours once a week. Now, when I train with an entirely different club it is 2.5 hours once a week. I also tracked 3-6 times a week which *always* required driving the dog somewhere since I live in the city. The more space or the more variety of cover I needed, the farther I had to drive. Usually it was 15-45 minutes. When I drove 45 minutes to track, it was paired with an agility class I took that far out and the club owner let me track my dogs on the land surrounding her facility. Otherwise, I drove about 15 minutes to find an open soccer or baseball field in the city and hoped no one was on it. I did obedience 4-5 times a week and often drove for that as well since my yard is so small I can only heel tight circles. Getting closer to a trial I would again drive about 15 minutes or so to find an open sports field. When I do obedience it's only for about 15-30 minutes at a time, that being the amount of time my dog was working. Typically I met with friends so it was more like 1-2 hours of us taking turns and helping each other.

Club dues have varied but pre-SchH1 I was paying $100 month or more (first we paid dues AND a training fee each time, then just paid each time). Then add the gas for the van and the more frequent routine stuff like brakes, fluids, etc b/c of the miles. 

For my BH we drove about 4 hours and stayed in a hotel, our trial was two states away. For my SchH1 it was in state about 3 hours away and we stayed in a hotel 2 nights (2 day trial and we were all supporting everyone in our club competing both days and we did a practice on Friday).

Unfortunately for me the main obstacle is definitely the cost because of the distance. Because I work full time and live in a decent sized city with typical city rush hour traffic, the distance to good clubs is such that I can't possibly arrive in time to train during the weeknight option so I'm already paying dues and only getting half the time. Then the cost of gas being $3.25 - $4.25 (that's the range it's been just in the last 8 months) and driving 2.5 hours each way. I no longer have a friend to carpool with me so I don't split this cost.


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## Ltleo (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm so glad someone posted this question as I too am looking to get involved. I just have no idea on how to start. I even want to train daily with a club during the day. I just can't find one or they are filled and only offer private at over hundred an hour. I don't even know if my dog would be a good dog for it or if I would even like it. From everything I have purchased on my own and study via hours and hours of DVD training from leerburg to kraftwerk, I think I and my dog will like and excel. 
Just seems like no one wants a new person.


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

Clubs only train once possibly twice a week not daily. You'd have to just find a separate trainer for that and they are usually not cheap. Usually Saturday or Sunday and then some clubs will have an option Wednesday or something to that effect. It usually involves a lot of driving. I drive 90 minutes each way every Sunday.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

MrsFergione said:


> Clubs only train once possibly twice a week not daily. You'd have to just find a separate trainer for that and they are usually not cheap. Usually Saturday or Sunday and then some clubs will have an option Wednesday or something to that effect. It usually involves a lot of driving. I drive 90 minutes each way every Sunday.


If you get with a club, there may be a member or two local that wants to train during the week. I wish I had someone local to just go out and track with, spot each other in the OB...I travel 2 hours to my club, even if they trained more than once a week, I don't think I'd be able to do evenings during the week. So I pay to train at another club an hour away with a good helper, and also pay someone else to use her barn/field/equipment and she spots me or may lay a track for me. 
It would be much cheaper for me to have my club within a short distance!


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## Ltleo (Nov 18, 2012)

What are the norm of cost for say private in defense. Ballpark?


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

Where do you live? That plays a huge role in the estimate.


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

Just kidding I see it under your name  I'll do a bit of research for you.


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

1 hour: Orange County Schaeferhunde Klub - Home
1 hour 45 minutes: https://www.facebook.com/events/336031879779302/?source=1
Uniondale: New York Schutzhund & Police Dog Club Schutzhund / IPO Club in Long Island New York
$100 per session for training outside of a club seems to be about the average
training page
Guard Dog Info
There are two trainers mentioned here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...922-can-someone-help-me-trainer-essex-nj.html


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Tracking - do at different times of the day. Do not restrict selves to early AM.


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

I can put in my perspective here, I'm new to schutzhund since August / end of July as active member of the club. 
I' started out like you trying to find a club, some where closed, some I just wasn't interested in and I was refered to the club I attend to knew.

When I met the TD I was honest, that this is a sport I've wanted to do for a number of years and finally had a dog that had the genetics to start and wanted and evaluation. I Also told the TD that I work at night so making it to tracking which is in the morning, 1 hour 45 min the oposite direction from where I live and where I work (I need to find ways to bring him to work and start leaving from there haha). On top of that, Im a member of the National Guard so its guarenteed I'll miss one session a month. He was cool with that so here I am 

I think it has to do with your honesty, and personality, and how that fits with the current group of that club. I'd love to say It isn't "clicky" but it is from my impression they did treat me with respect in the "feeling out" stage. You have to remember that the people that are there, probably have been there for awhile and usually see the people wash out before the dogs do and watch new members come and go. So it may take awhile for people to warm up to you so to speak. If you've ever done, tried or currently train in crossfit... its the same feeling.

As far as training requirments go,My dog is young and always up my butt to work. So we train in 15- 20 minute sessions 2 -3 times a day, every day. And the week you slack it will inevitiably show up on the training field when its your turn. A step back, feels like a huge step back for a new handler and dog especially when its a younger dog.

From what I've gathered from experiances of new and experianced people here, you have to have a huge amount of trust in your TD. A bad one can ruin your dog, A good one that you don't listen to can put you on the outs of the club. I've thought of it this way, when my dog is ready for the BH thats when we'll do it. Trying things at home from a DVD help but there are so many intricacys that I've learned. I couldn't imagine showing up and taking the BH with out the help I've received. Not saying Its impossible but like the others have said it would be hard.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@OP.....I think that you are looking for a group like I have,( not because it's mine....lol, but in structure)....I have a group that meets on Sunday mornings from 8am to 1 or 2 in afternoon. It is mainly comprised of older AKC people who would like to accomplish an IPO title on their dog. The goal of the group from my perspective is to get them up to the IPO 1, and then if they have the bug they can join one of the many clubs in NJ/PA.....in which they should have easy acceptance because they have a titled dog that they put the work in. I am not stringent on attendance, though you only get what you put in, but most of my people are successful middle age people or former AKC conformation/obedience people who are FAMILAR with importance of training. We are very informal, no club rules, meet every Sunday except for when worlds was here...lol. Track from 8 to 10, obedience from 10 to 11:30, protection 11:30 to finish. Dogs are progressing well, at dogs pace because there is no pressure to meet a deadline, no dominating people allowed to dominate, and we keep things light. We have a 16 year old and 67 year old nurse. I do assess the dogs before I allow someone to join, but unless the dog is so limited in temperament to make it too difficult for progress/fun, therefore, I have SL, WL, BYB all in the group. We have fun, we get dogs trained, people see progress without pressure, and they are on a whole very consistent.


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