# Bred young, would like advice



## Ohhhhdannyboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Hi thanks for reading. Let me start with a bit of a disclaimer. Ive raised and trained dogs my whole life, mostly beagles and springers. I love dogs, i work at a humane society and i do very well with them. Dogs have always been a big part of my life. A little over a year ago, i adopted a labrashepherd puppy. Her name is violet. She is my only dog. I love her with all my heart, i wish i could upload pics of her she is sooo gorgeous. She looks more like a golden shepherd, the only non shepherd trait of hers being her multi shaded golden colour. She is a wonderful animal. Shes very VERY intelligent and has learned commands ive never been able to teach my other dogs. Shes very loyal and protective. Shes also very calm and loving when shes inside. A problem arose when she was around six months and i couldnt have her where i was living anymore, so i decided if she had to go, so did i. So we moved to my dads, a clause being she had to live outside. Being a carpenter, i spent a few days building an extravagant dog house for her. I was quite proud of it. She destroyed most of the amenities of course lol but this is where ithe bad news comes in. She was born september 15 2011. She gave birth to a litter of puppies june 26 2012. Everything went fine, she had five healthy little mutts lol she took great care of them, and i adopted them all out, a few of which i still get to see. Man i have so many great pictures i wish i could share on here. But needless to say i think it may have stunted her growth. I know shes not quite done growing but shes barely 40 45 pounds id say. Maybe twenty inches at the shoulders. I say this because her dimensions, apart from length, seem very comparable to that of a full grown springer spaniel. Just a bit bigger. What are your opinions on this? I know there are many bullets about to fly my way about this but im just a humble man, i cant afford the most nutritious meals for her let alone myself, i do take her meat from Dinner every day tho. She gets a good variation of people food and pedigree, shes always gotten a clean bill of health. Shes a very lively and active dog, and doesnt seem to favor anything in motion. She does have the GSD gait lol shes a gorgeous dog ive never seen anythi g like her for a half breed. Is there anything affordable i can do to promote healthy growth and developement to maybe compensate for her early pregnancy? What are some reprocussions of this that may not typically just ne developmentally? Enlighten me friends. Thank you


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She is a mongrel. You cannot expect her to have exact shepherd or golden dimensions. Shepherds can be quite small -- usually 22 inches at the shoulder, is minimum. 40-50 pounds is very small for a GSD, but yours is not a GSD, she is a mixture. 

So maybe the litter stunted her growth. I don't think you can get that back. Check out the nutrition threads and pick a quality dog food, and start there. She may fill out some, but her vertical growth is probably done at this point. 

You work at humane societies and you let your mixed breed get pregnant? What's up with that? Did the people you work with give you a good grousing at least?


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## Ohhhhdannyboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Yea cause i totally "let" her get pregnant. Were not all of the upper crust and able to control every dimension of our dogs and our own lives. If you paid mind to my story, i think you would respect the alterations to my life i made for her. That dog is my life. Since i work at the humane society, i can attest to the appalling nature of owners to abandon their animals at the drop of a hat. No one else who works there would berate me for any aspect of my dogs life, seeing what we see, and knowing how much i care for my dog. I appreciate your advice but you dont need to talk down to me about her. That mongrel is better in every way than any purebred ive ever had.

Mixed breed or not, a dog is a dog, no one better than the other, working at a humane society and seeing it first hand every day i know this to be true. 

Im well aware of the GSD dimensions, but shes half lab, that being small for a lab as well. I was mostly concerned with how i might expect her to develop from here on out, so for that information i thank you.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Hopefully she's spayed now?


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## Ohhhhdannyboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Naturally. Although she produces wonderful offspring.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If you honestly work for the Humane society, I don't see how you could glorify your mutt giving birth to more mutts 

Or maybe you haven't euthanized a litter of puppies yet.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Ohhhhdannyboy said:


> Yea cause i totally "let" her get pregnant. Were not all of the upper crust and able to control every dimension of our dogs and our own lives.


You know there's a surgery to prevent pregnancy, right? 

I find it surprising that you work at a shelter, yet you let (yes, YOU are responsible) your mixed-breed dog get pregnant. Perhaps you have not worked at the shelter long enough to have seen whole litters of puppies and kittens get euthanized.

What does the "upper crust" have to do with anything? Are you saying you couldn't afford to get her spayed? I dearly hope she is spayed now.

As for her size, yes, you probably stunted her growth by allowing her to have a litter so young. Then again, you really don't know how big she was going to get. She could be a GSD/Cocker mix for all anyone knows and might have only been 40 pounds anyway. 

Once a dog has reached a certain age, you cannot compensate for stunted growth. Feeding her more will only make her fat, which you definitely don't want. If you simply want to take better care of your dog, you can start by feeding something better than Pedigree and table scraps.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Good luck, Danny, I'm sure you learned a valuable lesson....don't argue with perfection....it's useless.
Also, as she is a crossbreed it is difficult to impossible to project things such as size....just too many variables.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Isn't it mandatory for dogs at an Humane Society to be spayed/neutered?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

barring the having a litter thing, accidents happen, it's done and over

I would say she may be the size she is because she is a mix and maybe you can't be absolutely positive her parents were a gsd x lab? I wouldn't know if pregnancy can stunt growth, but I would say the 'mix' has more to do with it.

As for HS having mandatory/spay/neuter,,well maybe so, but maybe not if you work/volunteer..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I AGREE! It sounds like an "Ooops" and she is now spayed.
Even a pure female GSD can be around 50lbs, lower end of range but normal.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Isn't it mandatory for dogs at an Humane Society to be spayed/neutered?


Not everywhere. Policies vary. People use the shelters in some places to get their next breeding dogs because of this. Even in a more progressive state like NY it is not required in all shelters. Or some have a contract, which HA!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We got Libby as a puppy from a shelter, and spayed her when her puppy teeth fell out, although it was not required. They now require it but give you like a month to complete it and I met a couple in the feedstore one day with a purebred intact male Pug they hoped to breed before the deadline


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

ENOUGH. The OP asked if pregnancy and whelping at litter at a young age could stunt growth. She did not ask to be attacked and berated for what is past and done with. 

OP, it should have only stunted her growth if her nutritional requirements were not met and, even then, it would have to have been extreme starvation. She is on the small end of GSD size, but it happens. Friend has a GSD bitch that is 48#. My female, Elena, who is 19 months, is 51.6#.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

msvette2u said:


> If you honestly work for the Humane society, I don't see how you could glorify your mutt giving birth to more mutts
> 
> Or maybe you haven't euthanized a litter of puppies yet.


A little over dramatic, no?

OP, I used to have a dog (now passed) that was 50lbs soaking wet. She was bred before I owned her (she was 3 years old). Some bitches are just small. Actually I see them more and more, I can think of 4 or 5 bitches I know/have seen train that are under 55lbs and have nothing wrong with them nutritionally or otherwise.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

No, I don't think so, since it happens regularly across the nation.

It was this comment that bothered me and that I was responding to.



> Although she produces wonderful offspring.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Goodness msvette, can you give the OP a break.
The word "Naturally" was in front of the post which implies that she was spayed.

If the OP comes on and says, "yep I just-a tie her out every heat and let whatever happens happen"...then I will post judgement but you are reading way between the lines here. Nice way to greet a new poster, JMO.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I PMed you, jocoyn.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Ohhhhdannyboy said:


> A little over a year ago, i adopted a labrashepherd puppy. Her name is violet.


Unless you know 100% that the parents were purebred GSD and purebred Lab and that there was 0% chance that any other dog could have gotten to the bitch during her season - there's no way to know EXACTLY what her genetic makeup is.

There could be some smaller dog genetics in her background and that could influence her size.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Isn't it mandatory for dogs at an Humane Society to be spayed/neutered?


It depends on the state/area. In PA, it is mandatory. Our local HS takes a deposit that is refunded when you provide proof of spay/neuter. If you do not comply within a certain time period, they will take you to court. The HS I adopted Jax from, in PA, does them before they leave the facility. They did let me out the door with her because she was so young but I made the appointment, and they spoke to my vet, while I was filling out adoption papers.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Unless you know 100% that the parents were purebred GSD and purebred Lab and that there was 0% chance that any other dog could have gotten to the bitch during her season - there's no way to know EXACTLY what her genetic makeup is.
> 
> There could be some smaller dog genetics in her background and that could influence her size.


This, plus, unless you see the parents, know what their family members look like, you can't guess yet again, because you don't have an idea of what they are producing in terms of size. 

What I would do, having adopted a dog who was shelter mom who seemed pretty young (I got her from the shelter on a contract - which again, is not infallible and in my mind is not effective) to have had a litter of 5 puppies (that were all adopted from the shelter 2 months before I got her), is to consider asking your vet if x-rays would be able to determine if she's okay growth wise. I have no idea if they would, but I swear with my dog being so young it messed with her structure/pelvis! My vet says  for that idea, but I did talk to him about it (she had to have x-rays for limping has mild HD). 

As far as health, I made sure my dog was exercised, kept at a healthy (thin) weight, and at the time I think she was eating Chicken Soup dog food that I could get at a feed store. 

Maybe breeders could answer if they know of any long-term health impacts of juvenile pregnancies? I tried to google it, even google scholar, but didn't find a lot which is kind of too bad that we aren't thinking of it!

I also hope she's allowed indoors now - she sounds like she would do well!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Labs are similar to GSDs in that there are American labs, and there are English labs, and there are everything in between. Americans tend to super-size everything, but I think that there are lines of labs that are not as large as GSDs. For a female that may be the case here, she is out of a smaller line of lab, and she got that size. Possibly, though it isn't impossible for her growth to be stunted as well. 

Mongrel is not a derogatory term. I am sorry you took it as such. My point was, when you take a breed that has a LOT of variation in it between the lines, like the GSD has, and mix it with another breed of dog, you really cannot guaranty anything with respect to bodily dimensions. 

My other comments were understood as they were intended. I find it interesting when people who work at shelters buy dogs at pet stores, or let their mixed-breed dogs pro-create because most of them tend to be totally anti-breeding and understand that pet stores are fed by puppy mills. So it genuinely surprised me.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

after looking at your pics I would say she is definitely NOT German Shepherd/Lab cross, yep I've seen lots of that cross and would say she has spaniel, or border collie thrown in and many other breeds.. I would say very small if any German Shepherd/lab at all...pretty but not what you were told. I am sure she is very sweet and when you can let her inside without a heavy chain on her she will be happy and healthy. I do feel very sorry for her that at a very young age she was tied outside where any and all passing males could forcibly breed her, how very sad and traumatic for her, and working at a shelter I would have thought you should have known how to prevent that and would have known the parentage suggested for her was not likely, someone just guessed when she came in, or believed the people who dropped them off. Sure hope you can do better with and by her soon, she does depend on that, and if she isn't spayed yet, thanks for adding to the over population and dogs dying in shelters


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

OP, I'd love to see pictures of your girl. I just got a mixed breed pup from the shelter. I don't care if people call him a mongrel or mutt. Like you said, mixed breeds are some of the most awesome dogs. It sounds like you love your girl a lot.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

OH, I didn't see you had an album. Violet is gorgeous. I love her face. Like her name too. She looks like an absolute sweetheart. Do you know for sure what her parents were? I think she could be shepherd/golden? Whatever she is, she is a doll.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> OH, I didn't see you had an album. Violet is gorgeous. I love her face. Like her name too. She looks like an absolute sweetheart. Do you know for sure what her parents were? I think she could be shepherd/golden? Whatever she is, she is a doll.


I agree! She is very pretty! And, I too, can see why people think Shepherd mix. I have no expertise about whether or not her growth could have been stunted... However, she looked well proportioned in the photos.


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