# Is there such thing of fake pedigrees



## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi I was wondering is there such thing as fake pedigrees b/c they gave me 1 for Bella but I cannot find any info on it like what line she is there's just no information regarding it, maybe I'm not looking it up correctly or something bit I'm starting to wonder. And I was just curious if people could hand out fake pedigrees. I appreciate any and all help.. Thank you!


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Anything is possible.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

What are you looking for? There is a dog in the AKC database with that matches that name and AKC number. But there are no titles or anything so there isn't much to look at.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Just because there isn't anything on line doesn't mean that the pedigree is fake. Could be just a long-line of pet-dogs that were never entered in any on-line databases, and never competed in any conformation or performance events. The pedigree could still be real, but the dogs have just been obscure unknowns.


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

I was just curious as to what line she was? I just got her a month ago and the guy said she's a good line but I never thought to ask which 1 she was b/c I never knew any better till I came on this forum. And I was just curious she's a bleloved family member And I wanted to know a little bit more about her.. I tried calling the guy but he never answers so I'm left to try to sort it out, Thank you!


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

When you see names like Duchess and Duke and Teddy Bear in a pedigree....combined with no titles....that usually indicates BYB. 

Does (05-08) by the names of the parents mean they were only a year old when bred?


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

Hmm not sure doesn't specify, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a BYB he told me that she has had 2 liters already, but as I told him I was looking for a loving family dog for me and my kids and had zero interest in breeding her. She's been such a wonderful girl I couldn't be happier with her..


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Well that's what matters the most, that she's a wonderful companion!


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

Yes so true she's wonderful with my kids and that's huge for me, thank you for your help truly appreciated


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The fact is, you will NEVER see schutzhund titles on an AKC pedigree because Schutzhund is not an AKC sport. So any titles that are not AKC will not be listed. I do not believe PennHip will be listed. 

Two of the dogs in the last line are imports, one from Mexico (Mex) and the other form the Czech Republic (CZR) I believe. Any a-stamps, etc will not be listed. 

All of these dogs have been registered with the AKC. only one has been OFA'd -- that is hip, elbow, etc, sent into the Orthopedic Foundation For Animals. 

I am not going to make guesses, but the lack of titles would be there if they are doing schutzhund, more likely they are pet breeders. Not the end of the world. No idea what lines they are. I mean the Czech dog might be working lines, as it was bred to a sable which is very likely to be working lines. The rest are all Black and Tan or Black and Red dogs which, while it is not for certain, it is highly likely these are show line dogs / American pet lines. 

The pedigree only _proves _the dog is purebred, it does not prove or imply that the dog is of any particular lines or quality. There are no requirements in registering a litter save that the sire and dam are registered or registratable with the AKC and the breeder is not suspended.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DunRingill said:


> When you see names like Duchess and Duke and Teddy Bear in a pedigree....combined with no titles....that usually indicates BYB.
> 
> *Does (05-08) by the names of the parents mean they were only a year old when bred?*


It always amazes me when people who do not know this stuff are quick to categorize everyone as a BYB. In fact, the (05-08) actually means that the name of that dog was first entered into the stud book in May of 2008, that could mean that the first litter using the dog was born in April of '08 and registered in May. It is NOT the birth date of the dog.

Any one can name their dogs Kaiser Von Lutz or Armen Von Grossenbacher That does not make them any more German, or any better German shepherds than, say Kinsmet's Sight for Sore Eyes, or Manhattan. I think a lot of people who really don't know much about anything will name their dogs with German sounding names because it sounds professional of a sort.


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

Thank you selzer I'll go with that, works for me lol ...


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

Selzer just out of curiosity would you breed this dog? You seem to have a lot of knowledge when it comes to Gs I've seen you on previous threads and trust your input since this all fairly new to me. Or is their just no way of knowing by the pedigree I just wanted to know if he was bettering the breed or just making more unwanted pets?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

BellaLuna said:


> Selzer just out of curiosity would you breed this dog? You seem to have a lot of knowledge when it comes to Gs I've seen you on previous threads and trust your input since this all fairly new to me. Or is their just no way of knowing by the pedigree I just wanted to know if he was bettering the breed or just making more unwanted pets?


No.

I know nothing about those dogs. They are just names on a page. I would have to know the dogs, know where they are weak, know where they are strong. There is no real evidence of a history of hip and elbow certifications. If I knew they were all police dogs -- not likely but possible, that might make a difference in some people's choice to breed, but it would not be on the pedigree. There is a lot that goes into breeding and I would want to know more about those dogs before considering breeding.


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

OK so I made the right decision to keep her as a beloved family pet and nothing more, thank you so much for your advice very helpful


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that is the best plan for her. But I think you should work with her and train her while you learn more and more and more about the various lines, training, pedigrees, etc., if breeding or schutzhund or SAR is what you want to do eventually. By the time you are ready to get your next pup/dog, you will be in a better place to choose a dog with the best potential for what you overall goals are.


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## BellaLuna (Jan 27, 2013)

I will definitely do so and keep soaking up all the knowledge I can get till then


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

selzer said:


> It always amazes me when people who do not know this stuff are quick to categorize everyone as a BYB. In fact, the (05-08) actually means that the name of that dog was first entered into the stud book in May of 2008, that could mean that the first litter using the dog was born in April of '08 and registered in May. It is NOT the birth date of the dog.


No, it only means I don't breed and don't buy lots of dogs, and didn't feel like digging papers out to look. Which is why I asked the question! 

And I stand by what I said....Duke bred to Duchess sounds like BYB stuff. Kind of like when one of my groom clients told me she'd bought a wheaten from a "good breeder." She said she had "papers, and everything." Showed me the papers, they were from some strange registry and the breeder was listed as something like "Mary's Precious Pets." yeahhhhhh OK.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

selzer said:


> The fact is, you will NEVER see schutzhund titles on an AKC pedigree because Schutzhund is not an AKC sport. .


Incorrect. Schutzhund/IPO titles earned at WDA (or WDS) events can be added to AKC pedigrees.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Just because someone is naming their dogs with German sounding names, does not mean they are any better of a breeder. If the dogs have an AKC Number and do not have a (GER) or other country, then they were bred here, either out of German imports or out of other American dogs. Doesn't matter. 

Show people will generally name their dogs with their kennel name somewhere in the mix, Evenstar's Heidi. Lance of Fran Jo, etc. But there really are no short cuts. Just because you see a pedigree following a German-naming scheme, doesn't mean they are not a BYB, and just because you see some silly sounding American names does not mean the people are not serious in the venue they are in.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gagsd said:


> Incorrect. Schutzhund/IPO titles earned at WDA (or WDS) events can be added to AKC pedigrees.


Ok, I suppose mine aren't on there because they were SV shows.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

In the end does it matter if the breeder was a byb or not-judging a breeder by the names they use seems really silly to me


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