# Issues with Captain/ protection



## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Captain is doing great! As far as a family dog, companion pet. He is really growing on me! Except... I have a few questions.

I think it is well known that I want a protection dog on here, and have previously posted about my hesitations with captain' s lack of protection. His owners advertised him for lack of a better word, as a protective and a territorial dog. The moment I met him, I had a gut instinct that he was the ANTITHESIS of this. I think I am right.

I have had him about 3 weeks. So far, he is friendly with dogs, maybe even submissive, and very friendly and polite around children and humans. This is great! But, How do I teach captain to bark at the doorbell. I would love him to bark when he hears a knock or the doorbell. If he hears a loud noise outside of the house I would love him to bark too. To alert. Is this possible? Is it necessary? Is it wrong of me to expect my dog to give out alert barks when he hears something? I see that Captain has little to no protective instinct the way Sailor had. I think I could compromise on this as long as he can learn to at least bark when he hears something.

The other day my husband came home while I was taking a shower. He said Captain didn't even come to see him. Captain was upstairs laying in his bed the whole time. He didn't bark, he didn't get up to come look, he didn't growl, he didn't wag his tail, he didn't do anything. If it were sailor, panko, or spike, or goldy, or pretty much any of the other dogs I have ever had, they would have gotten up to at least to see what was going on. Captain is not hard of hearing, he hears me every time I call him even if we are not within eyesight. 

I know people say I need to give him time and it is too soon to tell, but all the other dogs I have had, displayed their behaviors right away. I guess maybe that is why I lack faith that one day he will turn into this alert and protective dog. I just don't see it in him, I strongly believe he does not have the protective instinct. I watch his body language, see how he interacts, behaves. I think when he barks or growls it is out of fear. I want him to bark out of confidence, that he is alerting me he hears or sees something. Not out of fear.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Maybe he knew it was your husband? Dogs tend to sense when their owners are near. It might be smell, sound, or even routine. Build his confidence. Take him to obedience classes, play tug and let him win. I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's nice to have a dog that doesn't bark at everything. A dog that can decipher if it's worth his/her time to react is a good dog IMO.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Boy that does not strike me as typical?? Top of my head, do you think he might be deaf???

Not unusual in Boxer land but I have not hear of it here?? But heck if he's sleeping just go over and snap your fingers see what happens.

Just a thought.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Barbie, I don't know, I think it's still too soon. I know you said that your other dogs displayed their behaviors right away, but we don't know what kind of baggage Captain brought with him from the past. He may just be still feeling his way around. 

Plus, I don't want to sound too mystical or like a nutcase, but I think at some point during the bonding process, you choose each other. He becomes your dog and you become his person and that's when I think you may see a difference in him. No guarantees, of course, I think you will have to love him the way he is to really know what he could become. But if you haven't chosen him yet, how can you be sure he is not waiting on you?


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I had a feeling that he knew it was my husband too. Except I would like him to at least GET up off his butt and go look and say hi at the very least. Like he was too comfortBle and luxuriating on his bed he couldn't be bothered to get up. Someone has had a taste of the good life I see. HAha


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

newlie said:


> I think you will have to love him the way he is to really know what he could become. But if you haven't chosen him yet, how can you be sure he is not waiting on you?


Beautifully said and very true. I had issues breaking through with Robyn. I thought I was going to commit myself. Finally I regrouped and I changed my thinking, embraced who she was and boy did that make the world of difference. We bonded so quickly and so well that I couldn't believe it. I was holding her back. She is a one in a million dog and I trust her with my life as she trusts me with hers.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I wonder if part of the problem is that I have too much leadership over him. He has a strong routine, I tell him when to go, come, sit stay, wait, pee etc... He has to listen to me and obey at all times. I wonder if he just thinks that I run the house, so there is no need to be protective because "I got it" and I am clearly in charge. Lombardo might have a point at the playing tug of war and letting him win. It is something I never do,and I wonder if this among other rules in the house has created a submissive dog. Maybe I have over trained and over asserted myself. Of course I would be concerned to all of the sudden stop implementing some rules and revert so he can start taking some ownership and perhPs become more protective. I just feel like if I did this it could creat a whole host of new issues, behavioral problems. I think I need to contact an animal behaviorist or an advanced trainer and kind of get some advice on how to have my dog establish himself in my home. Captain won't even mark his territory around my house or our neighborhood.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's not hard to teach a dog to bark. Why don't you find a trainer? Personally, I think you are trying to turn the dog into something he is not. But you can still teach him to bark.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I don't get the impression you have taken to the dog. You didn't rescue him.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who spend thousands just to have a well behaved dog.

Why don't you rehome to someone who respects this dogs character, go to a shelter and find a barky dog


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> It's not hard to teach a dog to bark. Why don't you find a trainer? Personally, I think you are trying to turn the dog into something he is not. But you can still teach him to bark.



I agree with you about not turning him into something he is not. I think I have come to terms that he will never be protective. I am okay compromising on this. I just want him to bark when he hears something. I am trying to teach him how to bark on command, but it is difficult. He is just not a barky dog. If he ever learns to bark on command I will gladly post a video haha.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Then hire a trainer! It is not difficult at all.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I wonder if part of the problem is that I have too much leadership over him. He has a strong routine, I tell him when to go, come, sit stay, wait, pee etc... He has to listen to me and obey at all times. I wonder if he just thinks that I run the house, so there is no need to be protective because "I got it" and I am clearly in charge. Lombardo might have a point at the playing tug of war and letting him win. It is something I never do,and I wonder if this among other rules in the house has created a submissive dog. Maybe I have over trained and over asserted myself. Of course I would be concerned to all of the sudden stop implementing some rules and revert so he can start taking some ownership and perhPs become more protective. I just feel like if I did this it could creat a whole host of new issues, behavioral problems. I think I need to contact an animal behaviorist or an advanced trainer and kind of get some advice on how to have my dog establish himself in my home. Captain won't even mark his territory around my house or our neighborhood.


There is a difference in training and controlling a dog. I let my dogs be dogs. As long as they come when called, walk nicely on the leash and do the commands they were taught(sit, stay, etc) when asked, all is good in my house. There is no need to control them to the point they can't think for themselves and make the right choices. I give them the chance to decide and do right and they always do because that is part of training. Who wants a robotic dog?


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> There is a difference in training and controlling a dog. I let my dogs be dogs. As long as they come when called, walk nicely on the leash and do the commands they were taught(sit, stay, etc) when asked, all is good in my house. There is no need to control them to the point they can't think for themselves and make the right choices. I give them the chance to decide and do right and they always do because that is part of training. Who wants a robotic dog?


I wonder if I did a little too much too. I thought I allowed him to be a dog, he runs at the park and we play fetch and he seems to have a lot of fun. I think in the house though I might be a little too controlling I dunno.... I do think I need to get with a behaviorist and see if there is any truth to this. Maybe I need to let go a little bit haha.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I wonder if he just thinks that I run the house, so there is no need to be protective because "I got it" and I am clearly in charge.



I find this comment of interest....many times you have stated that you are dog trainer and have much experience with GSDs. Is your comment to suggest that professionally and/or properly trained protection dogs ( GSD ) have a mindset of being "in charge" in the household they exist in or better yet the owners of protective dogs are not "in charge " of their environment and those they share it with ??


SuperG


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

SuperG said:


> I find this comment of interest....many times you have stated that you are dog trainer and have much experience with GSDs. Is your comment to suggest that professionally and/or properly trained protection dogs ( GSD ) have a mindset of being "in charge" in the household they exist in or better yet the owners of protective dogs are not "in charge " of their environment and those they share it with ??
> 
> 
> SuperG


I am a basic obedience trainer sit, stay, come, etc... I am not qualified when it comes to protection training, advanced sports, etc... This is why when it comes to him being protective or not, I think I need some advice from a behaviorist. I am not trying to make a definitive statement about the mind sets of dogs. What I mean is I just flat out don't know. It could be that a protective dog thinks they are in charge.it could be that they don't think they are in charge. It could be they are confident. Owners of protective dogs might be in charge or not. I am really not sure. Again, need to speak with a professional. My gut tells me that a protection dog would be confident under the right leadership and not necessarily think they are in charge. They would just be respectful of their handler, and trust the commands. All that said, I don't ever expect captain to be a title schutzhund champion lol. I just need him to bark at the door. Get up, and go check things out when he hears an odd noise. That's all. *sigh*


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

SuperG said:


> I find this comment of interest....many times you have stated that you are dog trainer and have much experience with GSDs. Is your comment to suggest that professionally and/or properly trained protection dogs ( GSD ) have a mindset of being "in charge" in the household they exist in or better yet the owners of protective dogs are not "in charge " of their environment and those they share it with ??
> 
> 
> SuperG


I was wondering about that too. I feel like there has to be give and take. When you micromanage every little thing he does, I would think he would end up with a lot of suppressed behavior because he is always told exactly what to do. He's not given the chance to offer behavior. 

I know freedom of choice is a big thing with my dog at home. I almost always want to give him the chance to offer behaviors. Even if it's something new. If it's something I don't like, it's simply not rewarded. If it is something I like, I'll indulge him and maybe even reward him if I feel like it's a good thing. So everything is not always me directing him what to do in every instance. He has the chance to test behaviors and see if they are rewarding. Plus it's more fun because I feel like he thinks more about his surroundings and how his actions affect them. More aware I guess it is.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

Could Captains non reaction have anything to with him having been an outside dog his whole life? Previous owners said he barked while he was outside and I'm pretty sure if they lived in a residential area he was also probably corrected for it. So now he is a house dog (your house) where you control what,when and how he does things he may be offering you a behavior that he thinks is correct. Poor guy cant win for losing barked in the last home he's gone, doesn't bark for you and he is possibly gone. I'm not sure you have even met the real Captain yet.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You haven't had him 3 weeks yet. I think first you have to learn patience. Let him grow into his new home and develop his own personality. He is not any of your other dogs.


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## royals17 (Feb 15, 2015)

Apollo never barks. He whines and 'talks' and what not, but he is not a barker. I assumed that's the way he'd be, and I accepted that. Then one night, he was barking like crazy in the backyard, so I went to see what was going on and what did I see, but a PERSON I didn't know... jumping over the wall in my backyard (leaving)! Apollo chased him off! I was so proud of him. He is also polite with dogs, kids, and people. For the most part. He gets rowdy sometimes. But, Captain might be the same way. He's calm most the time, but if a threat ever showed itself, he'd react. 

GatorBytes is right, there are A LOT of barkers down at the pound. Just walk through the place. You are spoilt for choice!


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## BeachLvr (Jul 17, 2013)

Teach him to bark and then just make his presense known by being outside with him a lot. People all know my dogs and some avoid my house even though they are TDI therapy dogs and wouldn't hurt a fly.
I will run into stranger that identify me as the person on the corner with the "police dogs" LOL


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Barbie, your comment about the marking/peeing.. We rescued a shepherd long time ago, on our walks for the longest time she would not smell the ground, pee or poop. She would wait until we got home..then finally one day, she peed! Give him time, be patient. I too think he knew it was your husband, dogs sense things. Try it by being in the shower and having a stranger ring the doorbell/bang on the door, but not at the time your husband normally comes home..get my drift. Good luck, Deb


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

How old is he? Dogs with higher thresholds and confidence levels take longer to bark at things like doorbells and knocks naturally. If he never sees the connection between knock at the door and stranger coming in it also can take longer so if you have him crated somewhere he can't see the door when guests come that slows the process down.

Crank didn't bark or low growl at doorbells or knocks at the door until he hit 8 months or so and he's a Malinois. If he's still young there is still plenty of time for that trait to develop.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

royals17 said:


> Apollo never barks. He whines and 'talks' and what not, but he is not a barker. I assumed that's the way he'd be, and I accepted that. Then one night, he was barking like crazy in the backyard, so I went to see what was going on and what did I see, but a PERSON I didn't know... jumping over the wall in my backyard (leaving)! Apollo chased him off! I was so proud of him. He is also polite with dogs, kids, and people. For the most part. He gets rowdy sometimes. But, Captain might be the same way. He's calm most the time, but if a threat ever showed itself, he'd react.
> 
> GatorBytes is right, there are A LOT of barkers down at the pound. Just walk through the place. You are spoilt for choice!


This...Some dogs aren't going to waste their time on the small stuff, but they come through like champs when they know something isn't right. At the start of winter last year the guy across from me was having some roofing work done and the guys had ski masks on. At the point. Let Midnite out they were walking the roof. Midnite ran across the yard, hackles up, barking and growling. I never heard him bark that way, my son came running down asking what dog was barking. Midnite then put his nose in the air and decided they weren't bad guys. I'm happy they didn't fall off the roof. He did the same thing with a creepy neighbor that stood over the fence. All I heard was oh poop and the neighbor never did that again.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm curious what marking has do to with any of it? Many dogs just don't mark. It's not really indicative of anything... be glad, it's a pain in the neck.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

What exactly is it you mean you want your dog to be a protection dog?

I believe dog's can be great security just by their presence in deterring crime etc...
I honestly don't believe a dog needs to 'attack' an intruder to have value as a security...

That said...

There is no way you can expect a dog to actually defend you in a real time attack... Even some heavily trained sport protection dogs will fail here... As will many Reality Based trained household dogs...

People always think their dogs will protect the house or family if an intruder actually entered and attacked them...
Well they might... 
But the facts are 99% of dogs without extensive training probably wont..

I dont think average owners need such highly trained dogs.
I dont believe they can often pull it off to the level they 'think' they are.

I even believe a lot of the times... Some dogs just are not really cut out for it... Breeding is also important, as is individual dog character... Even with the best trainers working the dog..

You cant just casually wish upon.. Or casually train a real protection dog...

But if you mean Bark and Scare... Jump on the gate... Etc... Well thats a lot easier.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Two more things and then I will shut up.

What I was trying to say in my original post is that maybe Captain senses your ambivalence about him and is not sure if you are even his to "protect." And as others have commented, if he barked, etc, before and was given up, he may not know exactly what you want and is afraid of losing his home again.

The general public is afraid of big dogs, period, much less a German Shepherd. There were any number of people who indicated they were scared of my yellow lab, Max, when he was just standing and wouldn't have hurt a fly. So, just the fact that you have Captain and people know you have him, is probably the biggest deterrent of all. I personally have signs posted in the front and back of my house, and on the gate leading to the backyard too, to show that there is a GSD on the premises.

I live in a pretty safe neighborhood with concerned neighbors. Newlie is probably friendlier than alot of shepherds but yet I have no doubt in my heart he would react to a threat just simply because he loves me and he knows I love him.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LoveEcho said:


> I'm curious what marking has do to with any of it? Many dogs just don't mark. It's not really indicative of anything... be glad, it's a pain in the neck.


yup. means nothing. My 17 mth old just started marking in a pet store! He'll be corrected for it. It very well could have been trained out of him.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I agree with others that have said he may not be showing his true self just yet, especially because he came from a bad situation. It takes some dogs longer to adjust and feel comfortable in their new homes. When we adopted Roxy, she didn't bark for a solid three months. We actually thought that her vocal chords were damaged because she never made a sound. Now she barks at everything. I miss the quiet!

It sounds like Captain is a great dog from everything you have said. I would focus more on building your relationship with him and give him time to really come out of his shell. And no matter what, just be happy with the dog that he is. Good luck to you and Captain!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I just happened to see this post on a different thread:



Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Lisa,
> 
> "I am writing this before I read any of the other posts, and it is my first thought, just something to consider.
> 
> ...


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

With rescue dogs, we get what we get. And we get 'em to get what we get. No guarantees, they come as they are, and we take them in with that understanding. We get a rescue dog because we have a place in our heart that we want to fill with love, and the love is unconditional. If a person can't just accept that, has certain requirements on what is expected and what they want for specific purposes in addition to having companionship and a friend to have fun with, then they should go to a reputable breeder with their wish list, and let the breeder match a puppy to their needs, wants, and experience level. 

So far, I've adopted two dogs from a shelter, liked their willingness to make eye contact and confident personality, but that is pretty much the only thing that was similar between the two - they are very different dogs, like 180 degrees total opposites (one was socially stable, and super friendly with people and other dogs), the other came with baggage, dog reactive, and needed working outlets for her energy and intelligence). 

I laugh at how different they both are, but I love them both equally - when I wanted a dog of a specific breed, bloodline, temperament for a specific reason, I went to a breeder. 

There really aren't any issues with Captain, he would be a wonderful perfect dog for someone, but you may have to accept that it just may not be for you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Beautifully said.



Castlemaid said:


> With rescue dogs, we get what we get. And we get 'em to get what we get. No guarantees, they come as they are, and we take them in with that understanding. We get a rescue dog because we have a place in our heart that we want to fill with love, and the love is unconditional. If a person can't just accept that, has certain requirements on what is expected and what they want for specific purposes in addition to having companionship and a friend to have fun with, then they should go to a reputable breeder with their wish list, and let the breeder match a puppy to their needs, wants, and experience level.
> 
> So far, I've adopted two dogs from a shelter, liked their willingness to make eye contact and confident personality, but that is pretty much the only thing that was similar between the two - they are very different dogs, like 180 degrees total opposites (one was socially stable, and super friendly with people and other dogs), the other came with baggage, dog reactive, and needed working outlets for her energy and intelligence).
> 
> ...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Barbie,


I'm curious about something....first, I appreciate the fact that part ( maybe most ) of your desire/requirement for the dog you share your life with is one which shows this protective quality you so seem to want. You certainly wouldn't be the only person who wants this particular attribute in a dog. Your original intention was to foster a dog with the intention of rescuing it, IF it fulfilled your requirements....do I have that correct ? If so, I guess you have come to a point where you are more capable of making the "go/no go" decision regarding Captain's future with you as his owner. The upside is, you have taken Captain out of the potential pool of dogs which might have ended up being put down because nobody wanted him and I fully assume, wherever you end up placing him, you will be very discerning regarding his future enjoyment of life with the proper home....and you are in a position to honestly inform the next Captain owner as to his capabilities and capacities as you have discovered thus far. 

My question of curiosity....and this is just me...I've had 3 GSDs and the vast majority of people who have met my dogs mostly all have a bit..if not more..trepidation of the dogs simply because they were/are GSDs. The breed by itself brings a reputation of sorts to the table which suggests a formidable dog with the mechanical tools to be respected in the arena of "protection". As a matter of fact, I have spent more time trying to temper their "protection" behaviors rather than enhancing them. The upside is, those who have become familiar with my GSDs over the years know they are just cupcakes...just like I suggested in the first place. Is it that you feel you need more than the simple presence of a formidable dog such as a GSD and need a trained protection dog ? If so, have you ever considered searching out breeders which breed for this and then getting the proper training to build on this trait?

SuperG


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I wonder if I did a little too much too. I thought I allowed him to be a dog, he runs at the park and we play fetch and he seems to have a lot of fun. I think in the house though I might be a little too controlling I dunno.... I do think I need to get with a behaviorist and see if there is any truth to this. Maybe I need to let go a little bit haha.


A behaviorist might be a good idea at this point. As long as you are open and honest with them too. It is good to see that you are introspective now and are looking for a better understanding. A 2nd opinion or advise from a pro might give you both the best chance of success.

My dogs have always been able to hear my husbands car approaching our property way before I noticed it. Therefore, they did not bark as the arrival was old news by the time the key opened the door.

I also agree with the other posters. He is still new to you and the environment and was probably scolded for barking when he was at his previous home. It may very well be that he is trying to be on his best behavior. He just lost everything he knew in his world and it sounds like he is really adjusting nicely so far. He looks so much better too!


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

I think the solution with your dog and your situation is to get the dog less shy for visitors and more excited by them...

May have some unwanted effects like the dog being less focused on you, and more on those distractions... But it will certainly make him engage and bark at visitors...

So unless you want to go full throttle on Protection/IPO work.. Which to be honest I dont think that dog is a good candidate, or your level of experience...
(I mean I still see you posting advice from Zack George..) The IPO/Protection world really is the ANTITHESIS of Zack George..

The solution is to get strangers to feed your dog.. Run away from your dog.. Build dogs confidence and desire to get to them... Get strangers to be exciting to your dog... Basically do the opposite of what I am trying to achieve with my dogs...

Make an unexpected stranger something the dog desires or want to get at... Even if its just to lick him...

The illusion will be there... Strangers will feel intimidated in coming into your house.

Thats one way somebody at your level can approach this... I.e. build drive to get at strangers...

The balance between attack and obedience... Is an art form... And is not something I believe you can or would want to achieve right now..

This would be the all positive, Zack George alternative to creating a "protection dog"...

The image would be there... I mean people are intimidated from a dog jumping and barking to get at people...

Little do they know that the dogs intention is not to bite them 

Training a dog to be just a guard dog... Without the obedience and ability to be controlled... I.e. nurture agression towards visitors foreign people... Well that is just negligence...

Real Guard dogs with no off switch... Should be only used to protect Nuclear Facilities or some high risk government institution... Maybe in War situations...


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> A behaviorist might be a good idea at this point. As long as you are open and honest with them too. It is good to see that you are introspective now and are looking for a better understanding. A 2nd opinion or advise from a pro might give you both the best chance of success.
> 
> My dogs have always been able to hear my husbands car approaching our property way before I noticed it. Therefore, they did not bark as the arrival was old news by the time the key opened the door.
> 
> I also agree with the other posters. He is still new to you and the environment and was probably scolded for barking when he was at his previous home. It may very well be that he is trying to be on his best behavior. He just lost everything he knew in his world and it sounds like he is really adjusting nicely so far. He looks so much better too!


He does look better doesn't he! ? When I pet him on his head I don't feel his bones that much anymore. He is like a different dog! I am taking him back to the vet on the 24th to check him and weigh him. Can't wait to post an update on how he is doing!!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Barbie,
> 
> 
> I'm curious about something....first, I appreciate the fact that part ( maybe most ) of your desire/requirement for the dog you share your life with is one which shows this protective quality you so seem to want. You certainly wouldn't be the only person who wants this particular attribute in a dog. Your original intention was to foster a dog with the intention of rescuing it, IF it fulfilled your requirements....do I have that correct ? If so, I guess you have come to a point where you are more capable of making the "go/no go" decision regarding Captain's future with you as his owner. The upside is, you have taken Captain out of the potential pool of dogs which might have ended up being put down because nobody wanted him and I fully assume, wherever you end up placing him, you will be very discerning regarding his future enjoyment of life with the proper home....and you are in a position to honestly inform the next Captain owner as to his capabilities and capacities as you have discovered thus far.
> ...


Thank you for this super g. At this point, captain is definitely not what I had in mind. I wanted a dog like Sailor. But, and a big BUT! Haha, I am kind of leaning towards not rehoming him. My husband and I both know he is not the perfect protection dog lol. I think we are both willing to compromise though even though we previously were not prepared to. I think about what that would look like to rehome him. He finally has a good life now after having been banned to the back yard for his whole life. Now he has us, a dog bed, food, a nice home, owners who take him out to go walking, go to the pet store, play fetch. His life is really good now. I don't think I could bare to take that away from him. Even if he is not the dog I wanted. I also think about how I could be 100% sure if I rehomed him that the new family won't hit him! hurt him! stick him outside! or dump him at a shelter. I could never be 100% sure even with a written agreement. I am scared when I think about him possibly landing in the wrong hands. And therefore... I think captain is staying. With us. I told my husband (to answer your question) that even if captain isn't protective at all, what will people know? They will just know I have a big ass german shepherd that looks scary. Haha. I told him maybe that would be enough. I do have signs posted outside that say beware of dog. But if a robber comes to scope the house out and see if anyone is home, he won't hear a dog barking, and might think my signs are lying. That is why at the very least, I would like to train captain to bark. We considered the rescue and breeder route. There were reasons we ended up not going with a breeder and then another reason we ended up not going with the breeder or rescue was because I just stumbled upon Captain's ad on craigslist. I knew it was a possibility he wouldn't be the perfect dog FOR ME, but I knew his situation was dire and the owners would be dumping him off at a shelter by weeks end if no one wanted him. So I took the plunge. I just wanted to save him from that fate. Sorry for the looong response haha. There were so many great responses on this thread I felt I had to address them. Thank you everyone, you all have given me a little more insight, and some faith to wait things out  I will be giving more updates on Captain soon


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Just train him to be a deterrent on command. Find a good trainer that can help you train him to come in between your legs facing forward or to stand shoulder against your leg on your left or right side it doesn't really matter. Then teach him to bark while looking at whoever you guys are facing. Use a cracked whip to add a little umpf to his barks and get em sounding all mean and nasty and bam Fido looks ferocious even if hes a wuss that would never actually do anything.

Nothing scares the **** out of someone more than a dog under control that appears to have gotten aggressive on command. They don't know that he's barking for a cookie or a toy. Aside from staring down the barrel of a loaded gun I guess that probably tops the dog thing, but even then lots of people have a deep seeded genetic fear of being bitten by an animal.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Just train him to be a deterrent on command. Find a good trainer that can help you train him to come in between your legs facing forward or to stand shoulder against your leg on your left or right side it doesn't really matter. Then teach him to bark while looking at whoever you guys are facing.
> 
> Nothing scares the **** out of someone more than a dog under control that appears to have gotten aggressive on command. They don't know that he's barking for a cookie or a toy. Aside from staring down the barrel of a loaded gun I guess that probably tops the dog thing, but even then lots of people have a deep seeded genetic fear of being bitten by an animal.


Yep that will do it..


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

P.s.

For what it is worth. Captain has been hit before. One time I was putting something away and guess I raised my hand over captain somehow when I was putting it away. Captain cowered down like I was about to hit him. I told my husband and even my husband said it could be that his owners hit him because maybe he was barking and then they stuck him outside. So maybe he is just really confused. Poor thing. I hope captain is learning that I would never lay a finger on him. Poor baby!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Just train him to be a deterrent on command. Find a good trainer that can help you train him to come in between your legs facing forward or to stand shoulder against your leg on your left or right side it doesn't really matter. Then teach him to bark while looking at whoever you guys are facing. Use a cracked whip to add a little umpf to his barks and get em sounding all mean and nasty and bam Fido looks ferocious even if hes a wuss that would never actually do anything.
> 
> Nothing scares the **** out of someone more than a dog under control that appears to have gotten aggressive on command. They don't know that he's barking for a cookie or a toy. Aside from staring down the barrel of a loaded gun I guess that probably tops the dog thing, but even then lots of people have a deep seeded genetic fear of being bitten by an animal.



Haha this would be awesome. I'll look into it, this is exactly the kind of thing I would want haha!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

He's probably just nervy. There are plenty of dogs that will cower at just an approach that have never been abused before. It's a genetic thing.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Haha this would be awesome. I'll look into it, this is exactly the kind of thing I would want haha!


Any dog trainer who also does IPO (well) could make this happen for you.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Baillif said:


> He's probably just nervy. There are plenty of dogs that will cower at just an approach that have never been abused before. It's a genetic thing.


True but not completely.

It's always a combination of nature vs nurture...

Every dog has a breaking point... For some dogs its just walking fast towards them... Others it could be hitting them with sledgehammer over and over...

Again why only certain dogs are good for protection work... In any case... Even the tough dogs need their confidence built up to engage anything reliably...

Abuse even a strong dog enough.. And it will become 'nervy' and completely helpless.
"Learned Helplessness experiment: 1965 Mark Seligman and Steve Maier"

I have seen a heavily abused dog at the dog park... Who would run from everything and everyone... Completely become confident... Looks like a completely different dog.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Yep. Captain is pretty submissive, and just a big woosy. But he is really cute haha. He does cower if you raise your hand above his head. That combined with his personality makes me wonder if there was some previous hitting or abuse going on. ?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Maybe, but I've seen it in dogs that have never been hit. The act of standing over them or coming up over the top is enough to get them to cower, pee submissively, or flinch.

Either way you can get rid of it by desensitization or counter conditioning.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Just train him to be a deterrent on command. Find a good trainer that can help you train him to come in between your legs facing forward or to stand shoulder against your leg on your left or right side it doesn't really matter. Then teach him to bark while looking at whoever you guys are facing. Use a cracked whip to add a little umpf to his barks and get em sounding all mean and nasty and bam Fido looks ferocious even if hes a wuss that would never actually do anything.
> 
> Nothing scares the **** out of someone more than a dog under control that appears to have gotten aggressive on command. They don't know that he's barking for a cookie or a toy. Aside from staring down the barrel of a loaded gun I guess that probably tops the dog thing, but even then lots of people have a deep seeded genetic fear of being bitten by an animal.



If you do go down this road, pay attention to this one sentence above all else. The one in red. I know you won't listen to me, but ask Baillif to expand on it if you want. DO NOT LET SOME GOOFBALL WITH A WHIP TURN YOUR DOG INTO A SUSPICIOUS MESS. Make a game of it, simple barking for a reward, but I bet this was dog that was punished for barking and that's something that takes a while to overcome. Don't push him, you'll create a whole lot of things you don't want. And I didn't get that from a youtube video.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Yep. Captain is pretty submissive, and just a big woosy. But he is really cute haha. He does cower if you raise your hand above his head. That combined with his personality makes me wonder if there was some previous hitting or abuse going on. ?


Could likely have been.... If you have never hit that dog before... Lift your hand slowly above his head and see if he responds the same way... 

If he is afraid I will very likely think there was hitting.. 

It could have been abuse.. it could have been in the form of a correction.. (Overzalous trainers, treat every dog like an IPO level hard as nails dogs... And I dont want to comment too much on IPO... But I wonder how such a dog would do in a real situation if somebody is hitting it over the head as a correction... If that is all it takes to make the dog break... I wonder how useless all those hours of training "protection" may have been... When a real criminal comes up... And the dog crumbles from a raised hand, or being hit..

Why would a dog naturally just be afraid of somebody lifting his hand if he was never been hit...

I think yes.. part of this is a learned behaviour.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> If you do go down this road, pay attention to this one sentence above all else. The one in red. I know you won't listen to me, but ask Baillif to expand on it if you want. DO NOT LET SOME GOOFBALL WITH A WHIP TURN YOUR DOG INTO A SUSPICIOUS MESS. Make a game of it, simple barking for a reward, but I bet this was dog that was punished for barking and that's something that takes a while to overcome. Don't push him, you'll create a whole lot of things you don't want. And I didn't get that from a youtube video.


Basically don't go to a PSA trainer lol. Go to a good IPO trainer.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I agree. I will have to look I to this. I don't want some hard protection trainer coming and using a prong collar and a stick or whatever to hit my dog to train it, when he is already been hit, possibly abused or neglected. I think it could do more dAmage than good. If I go to a trainer, I need to let them know about his background so they train him in a way that fits him and builds his confidence, not makes him more scared.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I agree. I will have to look I to this. I don't want some hard protection trainer coming and using a prong collar and a stick or whatever to hit my dog to train it, when he is already been hit, possibly abused or neglected. I think it could do more dMage than good. If I go to a trainer, I need to let them know about his background so they train him in a way that fits him and builds his confidence, not makes him more scared.


Use of prongs as a tool is not dog abuse... Mis-use is.

Please keep that in mind when selecting your trainer.

I dont know exactly how he will teach your dogs the behaviours they require.

Some confidence building is essential.. 

But don't judge the tool

But again, what you require is the dog to be assertive to some pressure... 
That may eventually involve lifting a hand... or lifting a stick to pretend hitting the dog at the very least....


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> Use of prongs as a tool is not dog abuse...
> 
> Please keep that in mind when selecting your trainer...


Yes I know but for a dog like this who is highly trainable without a prong, I don't want to use it and don't think it is necessary. Also, I don't use them and therefore if I tried I would probably use it wrong and end up damaging him further. So no prongs.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Thank you for this super g. At this point, captain is definitely not what I had in mind. I wanted a dog like Sailor. But, and a big BUT! Haha, I am kind of leaning towards not rehoming him. My husband and I both know he is not the perfect protection dog lol. I think we are both willing to compromise though even though we previously were not prepared to. I think about what that would look like to rehome him. He finally has a good life now after having been banned to the back yard for his whole life. Now he has us, a dog bed, food, a nice home, owners who take him out to go walking, go to the pet store, play fetch. His life is really good now. I don't think I could bare to take that away from him. Even if he is not the dog I wanted. I also think about how I could be 100% sure if I rehomed him that the new family won't hit him! hurt him! stick him outside! or dump him at a shelter. I could never be 100% sure even with a written agreement. I am scared when I think about him possibly landing in the wrong hands. And therefore... I think captain is staying. With us. I told my husband (to answer your question) that even if captain isn't protective at all, what will people know? They will just know I have a big ass german shepherd that looks scary. Haha. I told him maybe that would be enough. I do have signs posted outside that say beware of dog. But if a robber comes to scope the house out and see if anyone is home, he won't hear a dog barking, and might think my signs are lying. That is why at the very least, I would like to train captain to bark. We considered the rescue and breeder route. There were reasons we ended up not going with a breeder and then another reason we ended up not going with the breeder or rescue was because I just stumbled upon Captain's ad on craigslist. I knew it was a possibility he wouldn't be the perfect dog FOR ME, but I knew his situation was dire and the owners would be dumping him off at a shelter by weeks end if no one wanted him. So I took the plunge. I just wanted to save him from that fate. Sorry for the looong response haha. There were so many great responses on this thread I felt I had to address them. Thank you everyone, you all have given me a little more insight, and some faith to wait things out  I will be giving more updates on Captain soon


Barbie, I think your fears about where he might end up if you let him go tell me that you are are starting to love Captain whether you realize it or not. This does not mean you love Sailor any less, it just means that there is room in your heart for more than one dog.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Yes I know but for a dog like this who is highly trainable without a prong, I don't want to use it and don't think it is necessary. Also, I don't use them and therefore if I tried I would probably use it wrong and end up damaging him further. So no prongs.


Im not advising you to use those things...

We are talking about a professional trainer guiding you to teach the right behaviours. 

And how to select, someone capable to do it.. I dont believe for example Zack George himself is capable to even teach you something as simple as what you are looking for.

You need to afford the trainer the ability to use some of his tools the way they want..

Thats why I always recommend a 
Balanced Reward Based Trainer for pet dogs...

They approach everything positively.. And use the required tools when they need to. But its still 90% positive. 

They build confidence first... They teach the behaviours nicely first... And use everything else, when the dog knows what is asked for him.

The problem with recommending professional help... Is that most trainers will just do more harm than good.. That is the unfortunate truth...

Anyone can be a dog trainer... There is no restrictions to entry..

Stillwell, Zack George, and even Ceasar Milan, are all perfect examples of this.
On the other end of the spectrum... Its also just as easy to enter the market, using aversives and punishment as your go to method inaccurately.

There is no baseline standard.

Baillif Recomended a Tom Rose Certified trainer in another thread... 
I would agree that such a trainer would be a good fit...

Michael Ellis schooled too would be good...

I dont know all the schools...
Those two seem to be having the right approach for pet dogs.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

newlie said:


> Barbie, I think your fears about where he might end up if you let him go tell me that you are are starting to love Captain whether you realize it or not. This does not mean you love Sailor any less, it just means that there is room in your heart for more than one dog.


I think so too Newlie


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Just wait a while. Keep playing with him with a certain toy, only use it for playing with as much energy and drive for that toy as you can create. Don't play with him in any other way except with that one toy, when you get it out, and only then. 

When his drive for that toy is good, tease him with it and reward any sound he makes. Then put a line on the toy. Go out in the backyard with your husband. You hold the dog back by the collar while your husband swings the toy around and teases him. Reward the first sound he makes by tossing him the toy. The reward is where he is barking, right in that position. Don't send him for the reward. Build on that by asking for better barking for the reward.

Later on you can put it on command by starting the teasing, etc when you say your command and praising his barking. Later on you can even add in a quiet command by stopping the barking and rewarding the quiet. Keep it all a game, have your husband pet him when he's done well and don't ever send him towards anyone.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> How old is he? Dogs with higher thresholds and confidence levels take longer to bark at things like doorbells and knocks naturally. If he never sees the connection between knock at the door and stranger coming in it also can take longer so if you have him crated somewhere he can't see the door when guests come that slows the process down.
> 
> Crank didn't bark or low growl at doorbells or knocks at the door until he hit 8 months or so and he's a Malinois. If he's still young there is still plenty of time for that trait to develop.


Sorry I missed this. He is 3 and 2 months


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Anyways my point about prongs is this...

If you disqualify all the trainers that use prongs in training dogs...
You are disqualifying all the good trainers too...

The good competent ones have all used such tools...

Now weather they chose to use it on your dog or not, is a different issue.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

My boy is just over a year old and for the most part a non barker. He is very well mannered on and off leash and fairly confident when I have him out and about people are reluctant to just approach him and I (I like this). As one guy in one of our classes put it "I know he's well trained and friendly.....but he always looks locked and loaded." I love his quiet confidence.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

...


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Exhausted after playing fetch at the park.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Laying in his new bed.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Oh, he looks like a sweetheart!


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## EPips (Jan 6, 2015)

he's stunning :wub:
you're onto a winner there; he's definitely a sight deterrent even if he doesn't bark 
He sounds so generally calm and laidback I reckon the best way to get him barking is to get him as excited and hyped up as possible.
best of luck with him, you may find people wanting to steal him because he's so gorgeous!


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