# big-boned or lean?



## doc105

i am torn. i am in the market for a puppy. i have looked at several breeders and trying to decide. i tend to like the bigger dogs > 100lbs. but it seems that akc standards have been changing over the last 20 years towards a leaner dog. any advice? should i go for a big dog or for one that is better rated from a champion line but is leaner?
p.s. looking for a female


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## Barb E

The standard has been the same. There are out there, some "breeders" who claim to be breeding an old style larger GSD.
Not the case. 

Check out the breeding section for a bunch of posts on how to choose a breeder.


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## GSDgirlAL

Welcome to the board! 

This is just my 2 cents here but I think its going to be hard to find a female GSD puppy that has the potential to be 100 pounds. Typically, females are not that big and honestly you don't want them that big b/c it is not good for their joints. Ava is 80 pounds and I think that is on the larger side for a female GSD.

Just remember that bigger doesn't always mean better. 

Good luck on your search, you will find a lot of useful information on this site. Happy searching!


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## Timber1

Just one quick question. What type of dog are you looking for. European German Shepherd Working dog, a show dog, a dog perfect according to AKC standards.

Frankly, inasmuch as you did not elaborate, I wonder if you have any idea about the GSD.


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## Castlemaid

100 pound plus GSD, male or female, is oversized and not within the standard. It is unethical for breeders to purposely breed out-of-standard dogs, an oversized dog is more prone to a host of health problems than a smaller, lighter dog. 

If your heart is set on a large GSD, check out the rescue section. You may find what you want there. It is a win-win situation, you won't be supporting puppy producers who purposely breed out-of-standard dogs, and you will be saving a life, giving a dog a chance to have a happy, forever home.


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## OllieGSD

I understand that the big or King GSD is a separate breed mixed a. Pyernese and mastifs. Besides "it's not the size of the dog in a fight, but the fight in the dog."
What I mean is an individual dogs personality will far outweigh the size of the dog....


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## OllieGSD

I understand that the big or King GSD is a separate breed mixed a. Pyernese and mastifs. Besides "it's not the size of the dog in a fight, but the fight in the dog."
What I mean is an individual dogs personality will far outweigh the size of the dog....


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## mastercabman

it really all depend on what you want.are you going to show?
any kind of special training?
i have 2gsd,one male,99lbs and little sister at 70lbs.
been big can be a health issue,but i just have to deal with it if it happen.but i really couldn't tell you witch size i rather have.
oliver is big,but he's also the best dog you can have,annie is small and very cute,but has a little aggression problem,but she's like
"my little girl".
a gsd is a gsd,you going to love them no matter what size!


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## doggiedad

i like those oversized Sheps but we bought a German import show dog. he's 87.5 lbs at 10 months old and he has room to fill out. people are always saying how big he is. i like those oversised Sheps but i'm glad we have a show dog. i showed him once. he's a loving pet. he's becoming well trained. i was concerned with the health of those oversized Sheps. go champion line, breed standard. i think you're going to happy that way.


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## WiscTiger

I like normal size GSD's. I have an oversized male, I love him dearly but I wish for his sake he wasn't quite so big. He is 105 lbs with just a nice cover over the ribs, not fat. But since he has two Grade II DJD Elbows, I wish he was a bit smaller and lighter, to be easier on those elbows. I did have his weight down to 98 LBS but he was really ribie and his hip bones stuck out.

He is not as agile as my normal sized GSD's, he tries, but his body gets in his way. 

If I wanted a big dog I would personally look at St.Bernard (dry mouth) or Bernese Mountain Dog. Those are two that I like in the LARGE dog group. GSD's are not suppose to be a large dog but a medium sized dog.

PS my St.Bernard mix would protect me better than anyone of my current GSD's. It was a pain because he was more like a personal protection dog, so I always worked on his OB, there was no saying OK you don't want to give me the toy right now. He had to Obey and Obey NOW.


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## big_dog7777

A 100 pound female is WAY out of standard. You would be better off looking at a different breed if you really wanted a female over 100lbs. Thee are plenty of well bred males out there that end up over 100lbs, but it will be hard to find that as a puppy unless you look at breeders that are purposely breeding over the standard - which is just not a good thing. 

Once thing I'll add, is if you like that large of a dog partly because of deterrence think again. I'll take an athletic 80 pound male that can get moving and hit HARD any day.


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## G-burg

> Quote: Once thing I'll add, is if you like that large of a dog partly because of deterrence think again. I'll take an athletic 80 pound male that can get moving and hit HARD any day.


Shot, I'd take a 65 pound female....


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## doggiedad

like i said i like those oversized Sheps. now i know they're not your norm. i wonder what makes them so large??? now if i were to buy a large dog, pure bred, i would think about the Leonbergers. an oversized Shep??? in the long run will they be healthy??? so my boy is 87.5 lbs and he's an import, show dog. 87.5, isn't that on the big side. he's 24&1/2" at the shoulder. i think he has room to fill out. so what's big??? i'm starting to think a dog no matter what breed is on the large side say, after 65lbs or so. i'm glad i have a Shep that conforms to breed standards, that's for the purest in me and for the preservation of the breed. i'm obsessed with all things German Shepherd.


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadlike i said i like those oversized Sheps. now i know they're not your norm. i wonder what makes them so large??? now if i were to buy a large dog, pure bred, i would think about the Leonbergers. an oversized Shep??? in the long run will they be healthy???


If a breeder is purposefully breeding dogs way over the standard, there is a good chance health will suffer. Again, there are plenty of well bred males out of titled parents that are within standard that end up over 100 lbs while being in shape. BUT those dogs are not bred, because once you get a GSD that large you put them at risk of their bodies breaking down when they do the work the breed was meant to do. You may ask yourself "what does it matter if this is just going to be a companion for my family?" Even if your dog will just be a companion animal you want the deck stacked in your favor. This breed is prone to many health issues, and when a breeder decides to ignore the standard then what else are they ignoring? You can get lucky, I did. My first GSD was a bit over the standard and from a borderline BYB. Luckily he had no major issues and a good temperament, but look around this board and see how many ended up with big health and temperament issues from this same situation. Heck, some got a dog from a breeder that sticks to the standard, provides all health clearances and titles their breeding stock and still ended up with issues.


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## DianaM

Doc, the GSD standard has *always* been for a medium sized dog, 55 or 60 lbs on the low end for females and 90ish or so (100 MAX) for the largest male, with perhaps 70-85 lbs being the golden middle. Many breeders breeding oversized dogs are breeding dogs that no longer look like purebred GSDs and they may not be doing all the proper health certifications and temperament tests. They're breeding for size and size alone. 

Several of these oversized GSD breeders will claim that they're breeding "old world GSDs" or "old-fashioned" GSDs or "old style" GSDs, supposedly GSDs the way they were supposed to be. NOPE! They're deluding themselves and trying to find a way to justify themselves. The GSD, if anything, was SMALLER back then, especially looking at the German showlines, of which many are over standard. Anyone here can pull up photos of dogs spanning the years of the breed and not one will be gigantic unless you look specifically to these "olde worlde" breeders who are breeding whatever they feel like. Perhaps they remember GSDs as kids when yes, they did look huge when compared to a four year old, but in reality they were normally sized.


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## Brightelf

I won't deny it, I wanted a BIG GSD. I found a breeder who bred dogs that were within standard, bred focusing on health, temperament, and working qualities, did all health screening, and again-- had normal-sized GSDs... but she happened to have ONE male who was slightly oversized, and amoung other qualities that he passed on to his offspring, his size was nearly always included in the package. This took many months of researching and searching to find the balanced, healthy, sane dog who just HAPPENED to be larger and pass that on. Again, most of her dogs are about 70 - 85 lbs and within standard... never deliberately bred to be outside standard per se.


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## Catu

> Originally Posted By: oliver annie
> a gsd is a gsd,you going to love them no matter what size!


I slightly disagree. I understand what the poster wanted to say, but I'd change it to:

"A GSD is a GSD, you gotta love them the size they are or they are no longer GSDs"


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## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: LicanAntai"A GSD is a GSD, you gotta love them the size they are or they are no longer GSDs"


HA!


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## mastercabman

> Originally Posted By: DianaM The GSD, if anything, was SMALLER back then,


i don't really agree with that statement.
i have a lots of old photographe of gsd,some are "dogs of war"pictures taken with nazi soldiers,and those dogs looks nothing small.but i also have pictures of other soldiers (american,english,german.) with gsd and looks smaller.
i have and seen a lots of old photos,early 1900', and some of those dogs are pretty big.


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## DianaM

Oliver annie, I reference to the showlines, which are pushing the height standard and even going over it, not to mention the plethora of "olde worlde bige doge" breeders. The standard was and is the same, but nowadays we have a lot of big dogs being bred. There are even a few suggesting that the height standard be raised to accommodate the big show dogs (so much for breeding to standard, just change the standard to fit the dog).

Also, who's to say the people weren't shorter?


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## mastercabman

> Originally Posted By: DianaM
> 
> Also, who's to say the people weren't shorter?


that is possible,after all,when yo go into an old house most hand rail are at about 30"otf.today's standard is 36"!!


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## doc105

Thanks for the input guys. I did get a chance to visit one of those " olde world " breeders. I was not impressed. i did not like the dogs. they don't look pure gsd although i have no doubt they are. if 99% of breeders are sticking to a certain standard must be for a reason.


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