# Protective of owners when owner pregnant?



## Meghananne10 (Mar 31, 2017)

Hi there!

We are having issues with our 18 month old Shepherd Raven. We hadn't had her formally trained since she seemed to take to commands so well with just us doing it but needed to brush up on her manners. She's always gotten excited when people come over and has wanted to jump on them and not settle down but nothing aggressive. We have even had family stay and pet sit too. But over the last few months she's become aggressive toward people - jumping on them and pinning them against the wall or snapping at them. 

Like any concerned owner we turned to professional trainers for help with this new alarming behavior. I was 32 weeks pregnant at the time with our second child and was not about to chance something going down with our guests especially with a baby on the way. She excelled at her board and train program and they said she showed no people aggression after day 2 of 18. We brought her home and continued our "homework" training and it's gone amazingly well. 

Until we tried to reintroduce her to my in-laws. She knows them well but lost her mind when they came over. My husband was able to get her to stop jumping and settle but my mother in law bent down to pet her and she snapped and got her forearm - no broken skin at least. 

We call and go see the trainers again because of this and they said to come have another session with her. We went to see them and, mind you she saw them less than 2 weeks ago, as the lead trainer went to greet her and check her prong collar she bit him and drew blood. She released fairly quickly but we are horrified and naturally now I am even more upset (hormones don't help lol). 

The trainers theory is that she started doing this because she senses my pregnancy and it brought out intense protectiveness of her "pack". Based on the timeline of my pregnancy it makes sense. They also think this can be fixed, so to speak. They plan on doing a home visit this week with 2-3 trainers to help us in her own territory so we can get a grip on this. 

I am still incredibly concerned and skeptical though. She's never ever been even remotely like this before and I'm terrified that since she's started this we won't be able to break it. People will want to come to see our newborn, who is now due in 3 weeks, and our family will want to come a lot to help. I can't have them threatened and crating her the whole time will set her back I'm afraid. 

Has anyone seen anything like this? Does this sound like something that can be corrected?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

wow, the perfect storm of dog adolescence and your pregnancy. Glad you are getting help. I have no good ideas except to restrict her access to visitors until she realizes that she can "stand down". At the very least have her leashed to someone who can put her in a down/stay nearby when people drop over. And the hardest part of all, stay firm but calm through the whole process. Getting aggravated may just prove to her that she is right to be aggressive.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

If she is like this with you, how will she be with the new baby? I'm not taking about her biting the new baby, but being protective?


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## airbearmd (Jan 18, 2017)

Yes, this behavior can be corrected, but YOU must be the one to correct it! Sending him to a puppy boot camp will not have any sort of lasting effect. He may learn sit, stay, and come but he has not learned the absolute most important bond between you and him, and that is recognizing you as the Pack Leader!

There is no quick fix for this, and you must be involved in teaching him that you are in charge!

We have owned 5 Shepherds, and our 1st guy, Thor, was a beautiful black and tan with the most even disposition of any dog I have ever seen. That was until our first child was born. He stayed by her side in the crib, in the high chair, and in the stroller. The problem was he became so protective of the baby that only my wife could approach the baby. He started displaying the behavior you described. I contacted a local trainer whom specialized in Shepherds and he immediately identified the problem as dominance. The trainer's name was Kirby Hill and was a big advocate of owners training their own dogs, he also personally owned 7 German Shepherds. I enrolled in his beginner group classes with some reservations but after some tug of war with Thor, we settled down as a team. What Thor needed to learn was simple concept of seeing me as the pack leader, and once that was established teaching Thor unacceptable behavior was easy.

I used a pinch collar for training after I received instruction at the class on its proper use, and found it to be very effective in teaching him what was allowed and what was not!

Shepherds are great dogs, but they are notoriously dominant, which comes from being bred for herding.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

I had a very protective bitch years ago, she was always dog aggressive but became protective of me with people at around that age of 18 months. I used a prong collar on her with a short leash in the house when people came over, I don't think crating her will teach her anything, she needs to be corrected with good timing. The bright side is she loves you and your family and wants to protect you. I think it's good that she's protective but she needs to learn that your guests are your guests. So I would use a prong, and maybe have the guests feed her some treats. It took months but she eventually realized who my friends were and calmed down. Outside though, she remained protective and very suspicious of strangers. She was a handful but I miss her dearly. I don't think this calls for you to get rid of her, it can be corrected and I think you'll get over this bump in the road. No dog is perfect.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Sounds like maybe the lead trainer and this dog had conflict. Done wrong, quick and dirty board and train type work can be extremely unfair to the dog and cause many issues. I'd just take it easy and put the dog out in the yard or another room when visitors come over. Another option is to rehome the dog. Can you post a link to the board and train place?


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## Meghananne10 (Mar 31, 2017)

We use a prong collar on her and a Dogtra for when she absolutely needs it as a back up. We recognize that we absolutely have to be trained in a sense ourselves or it will all be for nothing. Having her learn from the trainers has helped us just with the timing of the baby. 

I hope I'm replying right. Idk if I'm replying to one person or everyone but I intend to make it everyone! 

I'm relieved that you all think we can work with her. I know it will take hard work and we will do about anything to keep her. We are a tad concerned about her protectiveness of the baby but seeing as how I'll be nursing I don't think she will go so far as to keep me or my husband or son away from the baby. We have to watch out for signs of that to immediately correct her. 

The trainers we had for her were so great. She had a few of them she worked with, and one main trainer who, no, was not the guy who reached for her that she bit. That was the owner of the business. He's had GSDs since he was a kid and has owned and trained them his whole life. Even though he was surprised by her biting he was still able to coach us to correct her in the moment and within maybe 3 minutes or so he could touch us without her physically reacting - she still whined though. 

They're coming out Thursday to our house to help train us to train her on this. As you guys mentioned we have to be the ones in charge so she listens to us. Fingers crossed we make progress! Thank you all for your kind words and suggestions, I take them all to heart!


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Disclaimer: I'm not a dog trainer, professional or otherwise. That said, your post doesn't read as "protective" behavior, due to a pregnancy, so much as it does limit-testing that was never properly addressed, in the first place, and has now morphed into aggressiveness with non family members. (I get that they're your in-laws, but dogs often don't make those connections). The board and train may not have been effective (assuming that the trainers were good and knew what they were doing) because the issue is at home, amongst the three of you. (Unclear limits or boundaries, for example). I too would be worried about the coming baby (and congratulations on that!), but I'd also be worried about more than just the baby. 

The timing of all this is really unfortunate. What you might have been able to accomplish a year or so ago, with a good trainer, may simply not be feasible now, given that there's a baby coming. For me, first order of business would be to decide whether we (self and husband, because_ you both_ need to be able to control the dog) can reasonably invest the time and energy to correct this behavior ASAP. Since the necessary (in home, I believe) training is likely to overlap the baby's arrival, ask yourself how likely, post baby's arrival, you'll both be able to keep up the training. Second, I'd need to determine whether we have the financial resources to bring a trainer in; a trainer experienced with aggressive GSDs. If the answer to either of those questions is even "maybe," I'd would follow Muskeg's suggestion and look into rehoming the dog. There's no harm or shame, come to that, in acknowledging one's limitations and doing the best for one's family *and* dog. 

If you decide to keep and actively work with the dog, I wouldn't recommend going back to the same board & train. The problem started, at home, before the pregnancy and it seems like some basic boundaries weren't well established. If that's the case, that's where, I believe, the training/intervention should happen. With someone who will come to you, make an assessment and then teach _both of you_ how to manage your dog. That's going to take time. So, you really have to think about whether you're in a position to do that now. 

Until you reach a decision, I'd simply crate the dog, secure it in a room with a locking door or sequester it outside --- also behind a locked door. I have an outsized terrier mix who I refer to as my 'recovering biter.' I say recovering because the impulse is still there (you can even see him thinking about it), but he'll look to me for permission now (which I don't grant), so it's manageable. Until we got that impulse under control, he was _never _allowed out when visitors came by. He was crated, in a bedroom, with a large (and graphic) sign on the door prohibiting entry. It took a solid year. 

This bears repeating, I think: There's no harm or shame, come to that, in acknowledging one's limitations and doing the best for one's family *and* dog. 

Best of luck with whatever you decide. 

Aly


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

So, what did the trainer do when the dog nipped/bit him? Did you consider this an effective solution?


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

*"Unclear limits or boundaries, for example"

*What does this mean? 

I think most of us have rules that we enforce. Furniture boundaries, no pulling on the leash, sit for supper, leash...etcDoes this mean we have to restrict the dog morethen we feel neccessary for our own comfort?


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

@Breaker's mom, this is what I was responding to when I said unclear limits or boundaries: "She's always gotten excited when people come over and has wanted to jump on them and not settle down but nothing aggressive."

My dogs are simply _not allowed_ to jump on people or to remain aroused/excited when someone comes to the house. At best, it's rude, at worst, that level of arousal can lead to exactly the kind of behavior that the OP has seen recently. For some dogs, it's just "Wow, Gwammy's here, let's have fun." Not aggressive behavior, per se, but Gwammy could still be injured with by that excitement. For other dogs, it's "Let's see how much I can get away with this time. Mebbe I can move up the food chain." That's pushing boundaries or exploring (unclear or nonexistent) limits and can have really problematic outcomes if not addressed (aka stopped :wink2 effectively. That's what I meant. 

I'm not sure what you mean by restricting the dog more than one's personal comfort levels. (Not a verbatim quote, I know, but I think that's what you wrote --- can't see your post whilst typing this). I feel that I have an obligation to manage my animals so that they do not (via their problematic behavior) constitute a random threat to innocent people whom I've invited into the house. My definition of 'random threat' includes but is not limited to barking at, jumping on, or biting visitors. It's rude and potentially injurious to the visitor. 

I'm not sure what to say about a personal comfort level that does not include that value regarding animal management, but perhaps I've missed your meaning?

Aly


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

So, is 18 months of age a significant age? When is a shepherd considered out of the adolescent phase? I hope the OP updates us on how it works out. Congratulations on the new baby!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Breaker's mom said:


> *"Unclear limits or boundaries, for example"
> 
> *What does this mean?
> 
> I think most of us have rules that we enforce. Furniture boundaries, no pulling on the leash, sit for supper, leash...etc. Does this mean we have to restrict the dog more than we feel necessary for our own comfort?


"Better" management practices in the home. At best ... the dog is "unpredictable" around people?? 

Crate or ... "Place" once taught should be done when you have people over. The dog should not be "free" to chose who he does or does not like. A no free roaming indoors policy should be instituted, outside is for play inside is to chill. 

You should have been told that by those trainers ... I would think??? Not your fault ... it sounds like you tried at the start and frankly well you got screwed by those guys. 

Rules, structure and limitations are what's missing. Most likely those trainers, relied on formal obedience training alone ... and it's not worked out too well??? Been there done that got the stitches. 

But to answer your initial question ... nope not unusual. People struggling with dog issues down line ... got at least one of the those three things listed wrong. 

I'd lose those trainers ... I'm sure they are nice guys ... but look where you are. There work speaks for itself ... in my opinion. Every effective trainer that I follow ... trains "Place!" 

Rehab starts with that ... you can ask them (your trainers about place) ... if they have no idea what your talkin about ... that tells you all you need to know ... in my opinion. 

So ... right now your pretty much between a "Rock and a Hard Place??" Under ideal conditions ... right now your dog should be in a kids free home with an owner that does not have a lot of people coming over. Hence the suggestions for "rehoming." A situation without kids or drops in ... would be ideal. But that's not where you are ... but no matter if you want to try and fix this yourself ... it would look a lot like this. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8006017-post7.html

But ... maybe possibly perhaps a solution is simpler still ... train "Place" make better management choices in regards to people and walk your dog. It would be a proper structured walk. Looks like this.:





Yeah sounds kinda sorta crazy. But let me explain. I don't use a Prong myself, I'm a SLL guy but that is pretty much what I do. I had uh serious issue with my first GSD becasue I overlooked the importance of ... walking my dog??? Three dogs and open desert ... why bother with the walk?? I was a bit too good with the loose leash walking thing. Five minutes or less ... problem solved! Why bother ... yeah ... not so much! After dealing with ... send you to the hospital for stitches issues (pack fights.) I went back to basics for the now seen "people issues" and to solve them ... I walked my dog. That was the solution. 

It actually took me many years to understand what I do ... but "larry Krohn" recently discovered by me ... explained to me what I do. 

He pretty much explains what I do all the time (the structured walk thing) so have a listen.:






Welcome aboard and sorry your having issues.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

maxtmill said:


> So, is 18 months of age a significant age? When is a shepherd considered out of the adolescent phase? I hope the OP updates us on how it works out. Congratulations on the new baby!


They say at 18 months they are no longer puppies.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Haha. My one year old has the mind of a puppy in the body of a teenager. :|


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I think ... based on my ... got it wrong experiance and what I have seen here ... 12 months to 24 months is when "I got something wrong issues" tend to crop up???


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

I've got a somewhat different take on this. From the penetratingly insightful perspective of my computer (grin), this doesn't read like adolescent limit testing to me. It reads like a pushy, possibly reactive, dog who's not been taught sufficient self control (aka manners). He's been successful with this in the past (i.e., insufficient/ineffective corrections), so he's now trying to see whether he can move up to varsity level, as it were. That's a different (IMO) kettle of fish. 

Maxmill, I don't know when adolescence ends for GSDs; maybe one of the long-time breeders will chime in here. (Mind you, I'm assuming that you're talking behaviorally and not w/re sexual maturity which can happen earlier). I've read between 18 months and 3 years, depending on the line (some mature faster than others) and the individual dog.


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

Your explanation above is perfect Aly. I was just trying to figure it all out. I adopted a pup three months ago. All the problems I was expecting are not materializing, or have been dealt with but he is inventing new ones  He will be nine months now.

*this doesn't read like adolescent limit testing to me. It reads like a pushy, possibly reactive, dog who's not been taught sufficient self control (aka manners). He's been successful with this in the past (i.e., insufficient/ineffective corrections), 
*
Sounds like my pup too.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Breaker's mom said:


> I adopted a pup three months ago. All the problems I was expecting are not materializing, or have been dealt with but he is inventing new ones .


Smart dogs keep you on your toes! > Enjoy him, I think the 'other side' is breath-taking and well worth the effort. 

Aly


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