# Training Challenge #2 - Item Discrimination



## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Okay - this one is going to be where you teach your dog to discriminate between items based on what you call the item. So you might have a "BALL" and a "FRISBEE" and a "TOY" and a "DISH", etc. The number of items you want to teach is up to you (base it on your amount of time and the training level of your particular dog). 

Now, because not all dogs retrieve, the dog can indicate the item in whatever manner you want to teach. He can bring it to you (if he retrieves), he can go to it and touch it with nose or paw, etc. Be consistent with whatever you choose.

THE END RESULT:

When you say the name of the item, the dog goes to that item and either retrieves it or indicates it. At least two other items should be available too so that the dog has to deliberately pick the right one. If you have a dog that is more advanced (or already knows the names of items) then make it more difficult by teaching several items, putting them all in a box where the dog has to actually pull out the correct item, or make the items less visible so the dog has to search for it a bit.

I'm going to try this with Khana, who is my Service Dog. She has been taught to retrieve but I want to add more words into the mix. I'd like her to seek out and bring me my keys and I think I'll do socks too .. *L* .. I can send her to my socks and she'll bring them, but she doesn't know the word for them. With this cold weather it's handy if your dog knows how to find your socks!

Good luck, and looking forward to the discussions! Please, anyone out there who wants to join in, do so! This is not just for dog trainers, it's to encourage everyone to do fun and even helpful training activities with their dogs.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Sounds great!! I think we'll start working on it tonite after dinner.


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

How would I go about teaching this? My mind is spinning with all sorts of ideas, but I'm really not sure what the best way would be.

Right now we just say "Oh, you've got your lamb." or "Get the ball" as we're playing. I know that he doesn't know the difference because when I say "get the ball" sometimes he brings the lamb, or the sweet potato, or the . . . . 

Kim


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## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

I am so going to start this today!!! Good pick!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Good one, Melanie!

I have taught this for four items: Monkey (stuffed monkey), Jack (stuffed toy shaped like a jack from the game of "jacks"), Black Kong (his smaller black kong), and "Red Kong." Now that I think about it, he also knows the difference between "ball" (any small fetch ball) and "big ball" (any bigger ball like Jolly Balls). 

Yesterday we worked on him picking up toys by name and depositing them in a wastebasket and he's catching on QUICK. He knows he has to get the toy in there or near there but he's still trying to get his "aim" down.... boy troubles.














I also managed to break one of our drinking glasses in the process of rewarding him. Go me!









Awhile back I was making progress on getting Renji to pick up dropped laundry.... I have to start that back up.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Oh, this is how I teach it for my dog with a great "fetch drive": I grab a toy, and then I show it to him and just start blabbering the name of the toy. "Renji, Red Kong! Red Kong!" Then I toss it after he's all excited about it. "Go get your Red Kong! Get your Red Kong!" Then he brings it to me all happy and stuff and when I praise I include the name of the toy as well. Then I add a second toy (less favorite) and put the two on the floor and point to the Red Kong, telling him to get his Red Kong while focusing on it. I "oops" him if he goes for the other one. It's not long before he realizes that the toy has an identification just like he himself has. Then I do the same procedure with the other toy.

The real test is putting them next to each other. He still likes to pick up his preferences but I encourage him to get what I specify and he soon complies, then we play games with the toy.







To keep his brain sharp, we involve several toys at once, and when he gets me the proper toy, we play fetch with it as a reward. It's great to give him the request for a toy and see him think for a second, then dash off to hunt down his toy!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Ris is a bit like Renji. She knows the names of some of her toys but will generally pick up the one she wants at the moment. Not necessarily the one I requested.

I'm not 100% sure how we're going to go about training this. Seems every time I think and type out what I'm going to do ahead of time I end up needing to change it.







Either what I thought of doesn't work or, in the process of working with Risa, I come up with something better.

I do like Diana's idea, though, of getting her all revved about the toy.


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## LedZep (May 4, 2008)

I tried it with chocolate and peanut butter, but poor Kuno got all confused and wound up getting peanut butter on the chocolate. Turned out, it was a great accident... I thought we had invented a great new taste, until I realized it's been done.


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

Diana,

That is a fantastic idea.







I spend so much time picking up toys these days. Maybe as we work on this I can teach him to put his own toys away! 

Thanks for the training tip too. We'll try to teach him the name of one toy this week. Probably the lamb since it is his all time favorite.


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## LedZep (May 4, 2008)

But seriously, it's a good idea. Kuno already knows the name of several of his toys - and things that are not supposed to be his, but he thinks they are. Since he has several balls, I try to give each one a unique name based on some characterisic or something. 

Another fun thing to do once they know the name of a toy is to hide it (or just allow them to forget where it is) and tell them to go find it.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I want to get several different colored kongs of the same size and teach Renji their names, then when I have guests over I'll wow them with how he knows how to discriminate by color versus by shape/size. There's the puppy kong, red kong, blue kong, black kong, orange kong.... I think that's a good start!









Now I need a toy box and the trash can... I'm formulating a routine...


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

*truly laughing here* .. oh, you guys are so fun! I love reading the posts to this thread so far!

I teach this much the way that Diana does. I have to admit that I've never done any formal teaching of the names of things - I just use the name over and over and do a lot of playing/teasing with the object to encourage the dog to want to get it. Ball and frisbee are really important to my GSDs.

Khana, on the other hand, could care less about toys. Teasing her with them doesn't work. If I tell her to get a toy, she'd rather bring me a dish because I really rewarded "dish" for a long time. So her involvement is a more serious one (in a sense) and I'll do more structured name recognition for the items with her.

Every dog is a new challenge, you know? *L* How I train a dog with Tazer's drives is different in many ways than how I train a dog with Khana's drives (or lack of). 

Diana, will LOVE to hear about your routine! The one I did with the stiff leash/collar and the trash can was really popular (I used to do a dog act at the fair every August). People just thought it was hilarious. We did other acts, too, but that one was one of my favorites.

LedZep - too funny about the chocolate/peanut butter! By the way, I was given some chocolate covered peanut butter candy recently that was SO DARN GOOD it put Reese's Cups to shame. It came from Zingerman's. They used dark chocolate (not my favorite) but man oh man, it was one of the best peanut butter bars I've ever tasted.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

BUMP! How is everyone doing with their item discrimination? We're reinforcing the items and dropping things into the basket, it's going pretty well.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Well, I've been sending Khana for the socks (my first step) and having her find them in more and more difficult places. I want her to have to seek them out so that she really is thinking about what she's looking for (that's my interpretation of it, anyhow .. *L*).

Next I want to put the socks out next to one of the dog dishes, because she really likes to bring me the dog dishes (she's been rewarded for that a LOT over the years). So I want her to work through the temptations of other items while still understanding what "socks" are.

Then we'll work on keys separately. We've already done a bit of this but she really doesn't like picking the keys up. I'm going to add something to the key ring that she can easily grab, since picking up the keys may involve being outdoors when I drop them, and the metal keys in -30 degree weather might stick to her mouth (INSTANT correction). 

Anyone else have something to report?

Melanie


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

So how's it going with everyone??

Khana is bringing me my sock on the word command now, so I'm pleased with that. I've come to realize that "socks" are not always the same thing, however, and that does cause some confusion. Sometimes they're the black socks I wear with my scuffs. Sometimes they're the fuzzy warm socks that I wear around the place when my toes are cold. Sometimes they're clean, unscented, other times they may be ones I wore a bit already. So for Khana, there are constant changes that do make some difference to her. But she's doing VERY well overall.

I haven't worked her much on the keys - I got wrapped up in something else and it kind of took over my life .. *LOL* .. someone sent me the Twilight series of books (hard back, no less - what a nice gift!) and I started reading them last night. I just finished book three (I read sickeningly fast when I'm really into something). 

Now I want a vampire of my own. I NEED a little adventure in my life! *LOL*

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

Well, it didn't go quite as well as I hoped. Jake's had a rough week. It is hard being 12 weeks old. There are just so many things to do and explore and chew and sniff . . .

I think he knows the difference between his kong and his bone. If I ask him to find the bone he'll look around, find it, and then put it on his bed. Why? I have no idea! I've been thinking and thinking about why he might do that, but can't come with a reason.

And I had no luck teaching him to clean up his toys. I would name the toy put it in his tub, turn around to get the next, and find Jake in the tub removing the toy. Ah . . . maybe when he's older.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

*LOL* .. Jake has the BEST excuse of anyone - he's a baby! Tazer is still trying that excuse and she's 19 months old (and the adult dogs are starting to tell her that she's not allowed the puppy excuse anymore).

Cleaning up toys is a pretty advanced behavior. You have to chain together several behaviors, actually. He has to recognize the name of the item, go to the item, pick it up and carry it, take it to a designated spot and release it. That's a LOT to ask for an adult dog, let alone a pup. So it may be best to wait until he's more grown to work on that. But you can always work on the little bits of the behaviors (like you are). He can be learning the various names of his toys, can be learning to carry them and hold them for you, etc. 

I've just recently gotten my chow really enthusiastic about bringing all the toys to me (I sit by the toy box and drop them in). She will hunt through the shop to find another toy (and sometimes, if a toy isn't available, will bring me a leash or whatever else she can find .. *L*). At first it was kind of a chore to her, as a relatively non-retrieving dog, but now she jumps in with enthusiasm and is really having fun with it. She'd already worked into that enthusiasm with retrieving the dog dishes and would sometimes bring me one unasked. She works well with rewards and she truly loves to please me, which is quite something given her breed.

We did work on the keys tonight and she was racing to bring them to me, so I was very pleased with that.

She's in heat right now. I've never had it truly affect her so I don't anticipate any changes, but it will be interesting to see if she acts any differently during the training. Right now she is at my feet, as always. She doesn't allow me more than about six inches from her.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## valleydog (Jan 18, 2005)

Amazing, amazing, amazing behavior from a Chow Chow. WOW!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I've been slacking off on this one.







I'm on another training board where we've been issued a challenge (training our dog to nod in a week) and I've been focusing what time I have on that. Sorry! I will get back to this one eventually. Probably after I've finished up the head-nodding behavior.


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

Melanie,

I've started making a list of these training challenges. I'm also writing down the break down steps to teaching each behavior. You all are tremendously helpful in that! I'm learning to picture what I want and all the steps to get there. 

Jake really likes learning. So far it is all one big game to him. He sure keeps me on my toes!

So . . . what's next?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Renji can now fetch his leash and bring it to me!







And he only learned it within about 10 minutes.







Of course, we still have to do several days' worth of repeating this and proofing this, but I was able to toss the leash and send him after it and send him to get it while I had it on his crate. This is awesome! The goal is for me to be able to walk in the door after work and have him get his gear so I can be lazy and not take my shoes off to get him hooked up.









Dog training: the path to having a better companion or the path to enabling laziness?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-ElperroguapoI've been slacking off on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jamie, please do link the training board you mentioned.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Most certainly, Diana! Rewarding Behaviors


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Wow, great forum, thanks!

Melanie, we need more training challenges!







I looked around the room to gather some ideas and Renji is passed out in a heap of his toys.







Too bad I have to stand up and get cooking!


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Ahh, Renji is doing great! I should work on the "leash" command too. Khana will bring it to me if I point to it or mark it with the laser pointer (she goes to the red dot and then brings me whatever is there). But she doesn't know the word "leash" really.

Okay, I'll think of another challenge and post it separately.

Melanie 

Oh - and valleydog, thanks for the comment! It takes a bit more to get into a chow head - they're not as open as a shepherd or other herding/working breed - but once you do, you find it's FULL of intelligence. And then you just have to work around the naturally independent (stubborn!!) nature .. *LOL*


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I like the idea of teaching a dog to pick up whatever is marked by a laser pointer... sounds fun!


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## LedZep (May 4, 2008)

Kuno is learning to tell the difference between a nice taylored suit and "off the rack".


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I just found this thread! Grimm and I have been working on differentiating between him bringing me "Piggy" "Chikkun" and "Ball." The problem is, he gets overstimulated somehow, and then franticly grabs anything at all. When corrected "epp-epp..." he grabs the next closest thing, just to "win."









Do I need to tone down my encouragement during this training game? Start with JUST the piggy and the chikkun?

Grimm actually LOVES retrieval. He picks up keys when I drop them, a letter when I drop that, whatever I drop that I indicate, he looks up at me before I can even command him: "Ma! Ma! Want me pick dat up for you an' get PRAISE for it, Ma?? Huh, do ya??" Plus, he LOVES carrying something for me while in heel. "I da MAN, Mama, I da MAAAN!!"









How to help him be more steady, when he is such an overenthusiastic guy that he loses his head?


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Diana, the laser pointer is GREAT .. I started that with Trick many years ago and when I sprained my ankle badly (ten days NO walking, six months in a splint) it was very handy to send her for things.

LedZep, your dog is truly a distinguished gentleman .. *LOL*

Patti, the over-enthusiasm is a common problem especially in young dogs. I get that from Tazer all the time. She'll be on her way to the frisbee but then she'll see the ball. 

Sometimes it helps to just say nothing when they bring the wrong thing - smile but keep mouth shut .. *L* .. and he will probably start frantically bringing you everything, and you can praise when he gets the right one. 

And sometimes it helps to go back to a single item for awhile - rework "piggy" with just piggy out, then chikkun, then ball.

Enthusiasm is GOOD, though. I much prefer an over-enthusiastic dog to one you have to coax through things.

Melanie and the gang


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks for the advice, Melanie. I will try to back up a step with him then, and keep things quieter.







I never had a dog I had to coax... but, I also never had a dog who's enthusiasm could short-circuit his brain!







I never had a puppy before.. so seeing teenagerhood is new to me! Do you suspect he will outgrow a lil of his nuttiness? (oh please... oh please...







)


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## laukaouda (Jun 26, 2002)

I've been looking for fun things to do with Phantom to keep her "working" while recovering from her spay. I think I'm going to try this in a few days.

It's amazing what a human can think of and a dog can do.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Patti, I HAVE to think he'll outgrow some of his nuttiness .. because I really want Tazer to outgrow the nuttiness too! *L*

Honestly, looking back at all the puppies I've had, they've all been nutty for awhile. Trick was a real brat! No one wanted to be around her for the longest time. Her enthusiasm for people she knew got her in trouble (she tended to greet with a full body slam). And she was so focused on toys and sticks that it drove me crazy at first. I remember walking one day, down a back road, and Trick was carrying a huge stick. She really wanted me to throw it for her but I was walking for exercise that day. So she'd trot ahead of me, glance back to see where I was, and then drop the stick in my path. 

I'd keep going forward and take a step sideways so that my new path would bypass the stick - and she'd pick the stick up and flip it forward into my new path!

It got to the point where I had to take the stick away from her. She kept breaking my stride. But that was her intensity .. she knew what she wanted and she did what she needed to do to get it.

Trick settled nicely, however, and became the world's best dog .. *G* .. Tazer is going to take longer, I think, but she'll settle eventually. I'm already seeing things in her that show some maturity - like when she's leaping around, wanting me to throw a toy, and then she suddenly stops and sits still without me telling her to. I KNOW the brain cells kicked in at that point!

Melanie


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

Last night I asked Jake for his bone (he brought it), his ball (he brought it) and his kong (he brought the lamb). Oh well, we're making progress!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Good job, Jake's Mom!


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## Rafi's Dad (Jan 25, 2008)

I'd watch out for the negative effects of the laser pointer. My Rafi went nuts over it and searched for the laser spot for days everywhere and lost interest in EVERYTHING else including all training. Thankfully he has a tremendous ball drive and that brought him out of his neurotic compulsion for the laser!


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Jake's Mom, that's so great! And he's so young - just think how much he'll know by the time he's an adult!!

I've been kind of lax the last couple of days. Had to make a trip to the next town over yesterday and it wore me out .. *L* .. and right now I'm working on an enewsletter for the fishing lodge, so I'm kind of wrapped up in that. Tazer is practicing relaxing in the house - unconfined in the room, but blocked off so she can't go exploring elsewhere. This is a BIG step for her and we're trying to do it more and more so that she becomes trustworthy. So far so good!

Rafi's Dad - I've seen dogs that become obsessed with the laser, but I've had great luck with it as a training tool. I think if you introduce it specifically tied with a behavior (like "touch") then it's different than if you just play with a dog with it. But yes, some dogs do get a bit crazed about lights and that can be tough to overcome.

Melanie and the gang


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## Jake's Mom (Nov 27, 2008)

We have a friend with a 17 month old GSD. They taught him to chase a laser light. Now if you carry anything that remotely looks like the laser pen (including pencils, pens, screwdrivers, flashlights, etc) he completely loses focus on everything else.

They called me in to help retrain him. Boy, what a job!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

It's been awhile since we worked on this, but I know we have to work on it more. Renji's a bit confused. We did some clicker work with his stuffed jack, big red kong and medium black kong. With the clicker, I think he's thinking more and reacting less and it seems as though he's finally realizing that things actually do have names but he's not too clear on what they are. Towards the end of the session we were doing a bit better. We need more work!


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

I'm finding that with my four girls, they've all become more focused on the names of items (since I have become more consistent in using the names). I find this interesting as I'm not trying to teach them ALL the names. So much of the training can carry across to the different dogs since we do so much together.

Tazer and Khana are both in heat and they're not nearly as focused as they were previously, so our training hasn't been really consistent lately. I figure I'll let the hormones relax a bit - I'm just glad they're getting along! *L*

Melanie and the gang


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:I'm just glad they're getting along!


Count your lucky stars! That's great that they're tolerating each other.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Getting a little better today. I used to preface the toy name with "go get your...." but now I am just using the name. I realized that he's tying "go get your...." to one toy and "where's your.." to another. He had to either touch the toy with his muzzle or pick up his toy to get the click. This is really working his brain!


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