# Anybody doing Nosework?



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I just signed Pimg up from a beginner class in nosework. I'm pretty excited about it, as I've played "find it!" games with Pimg her whole life. She seems to have an excellent tracking nose (I say that now...). No matter where I hide a treat in my house (under blankets, buried in closets, behind the couch, etc, etc) she can always find the treat very quickly. I'm hoping she excels in this sport. It would be fun to trial her in it as well. Class starts one week from today!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

No but I am doing cadaver detection and have nationally certified in that 4 years running and hoping to cert the puppy this Sept or January. (Sep may be too soon).


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Willy, here's a previous thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...orts/176349-anybody-competing-nosework-2.html

We were doing it for awhile, but haven't in a couple of months, I've been focusing on flyball instead. Our trainer Andrew Ramsey was with the Military Working Dog Program at Lackland AFB, training detection dogs before moving to the Bay Area. He was doing classes at his house, he had a training area set up outside on his deck, but just started an intensive week-long class at the Michael Ellis School yesterday: The Michael Ellis School for Dog Trainers | Courses

He's also developing a series of DVDs with Leerburg - the first one in the series was released recently, and Halo and I are in it briefly: Leerburg On Demand | The Foundation of Nosework with Andrew Ramsey

Keefer was videoed too, but I don't think he ended up on the DVD. Andrew is supposed to be getting some free copies to give to those who participated, but I don't have one yet, so I haven't actually watched the DVD.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Neat!! My biggest fear is that nosework is nothing more than a slightly structured "find it" game. I know that they mix up the environments, and also search in cars and stuff- but I'm curious if you've found it to be fun, or just kind of repetitively boring.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I thought it was fun, but the way we were training is different than the way the K9 Nosework classes are done, as I explained in the other thread. 

How fast you progress will determine how quickly you'll be able to do searches in more interesting and challenging environments, and that just depends on the dog. Here is a short video of Andrew doing an urban search with his Mal Fusel: Leerburg On Demand Video Player | Urban Nosework

Try it and see how she does and if it's something you enjoy and then go from there.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks a ton! I just started reading through the other thread- looks like lots of good info in there.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

The new Andrew Ramsey DVD is a great way to get into nosework. I recommend it highly.

Detection work is anything but repetitive and boring. The only thing limiting the variety of work is your imagination.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

In the class Tim and I did..the instructor hid the treat in a box (there were many boxes scattered around) and let the dog "find it". The hiding progessed to different areas of the room.

If your dog gets excited when you say "find it! or get it" and knows to start looking around , then she will be great. Also helps if she is not afraid to climb in and around the boxes. Tim would actually jump into them to find the treat! The dog gets to work off leash and run around the room searching. Tim loved the entire concept.. It was a fun class.. a bit too much crate time for Tim. ( yea, I know..gotta watch that Crate Games DVD. ..


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

ponyfarm- were the scents introduced in the first class, or just food?


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

We only made it thru three of the classes, and she was still using food at that point. I saw another student last night and she loved the entire session and is going on to advanced..but cant tell you when scents were actually used.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have heard good things about Ramsey. Does he do the prolonged with food? We started our cadaver dog program with the help of a bomb dog guy from Lackland who served first in the military then in the police service as a departmental trainer.

But we started with throws with source material in them. But I have heard detection dog folks praise the Ramsey guy's training.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Andrew introduces the scent right away, he pairs it with the food or toy reward, whichever the dog shows more interest in working for.


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## dogsquad (May 15, 2012)

*Nosework Seminar with Andrew Ramsey*

Andrew will be doing a 4 day Nosework Seminar Aug 3 through the 6th in El Cerrito, CA sponsored by The Dog Squad. For more information go to Puppy and Dog Training Programs - Contra Costa and Alameda County

Steve Bettcher, IACP Certified Dog Trainer
The Dog Squad


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Wildo , thought you might be interested in this . "Kira" my dog who was in training for bed - bug detection and is now being readied for tracking titles went to a local introduction to the sport of Nosework. 
Birch-Bark Hill: Nosework Seminar June 23

Carmen
http://ww.carmspack.com


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Very interesting, Carmen- thanks for sharing! Since my class ended (a few weeks ago) I haven't done much at all with nosework. I did pick up the Ramsey DVD and watched it. I need to get back into some training here...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wildo said:


> VI did pick up the Ramsey DVD and watched it.


Did you see me and Halo?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Sure did! For just a brief moment though. Maybe three or four seconds. I was bummed- I wanted to see more searching!


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> I did pick up the Ramsey DVD and watched it.


How did you like the video?


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I thought the video was really good. Lots of info. However, I really disliked that they didn't make it clear from the beginning (as in- on their website) that Ramsey's training method requires to people. There's a handler and a "trainer." The trainer hides the find while the handler obviously handles the dog. I've had difficulty doing both jobs myself, but if you have more than yourself in your house then you should be good to go.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> However, I really disliked that they didn't make it clear from the beginning (as in- on their website) that Ramsey's training method requires to people.


I just received the DVD and I agree that would have been good info to put on their website. I am the only one training with Nikki so this won't work for us, I am not finished watching it yet, so hopefully there is still some useful information on there.

P.S.: Debbie - I saw you and Halo


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Darn- sorry Heidigsd. I wish I would have gotten back to you sooner. I can say that I've found a way to more/less work both "positions." I put a hook in the corner of my training room where I setup my nosework lab. I then got a LONG lead (30') and hook it on the hook. I can then hold the lead as you would in a restrained recall while I hide the find. I can then get her amped up and finally release the long lead. It works pretty well though is not as good as two people, obviously.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

It's ok...this isn't the first DVD I ever wasted money on. Of course I ordered the scent kit to go along with it :laugh:

I totally forgot about the nosework lab which I can't set up, the garage would be the only place but it's way to hot out there now. I'll just have to use the boxes and other objects.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Why can't you tell the dog to stay in another room while you hide the treat and/or odor? We're in our second level of Nosework classes and I practice by myself a lot, both at home and at parks.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

The Ramsey method relies a lot on the dog getting amped up from seeing "the trainer" place the hide (whether that's the real hide, or acting like it's the real hide). It does this as a way to both build drive as well as to teach a search pattern. One thing that I found desperately missing from our "random box" nosework classes is even a semblance of a search pattern. 

Also, in the Ramsey system, the trainer is the one to throw the reward for the dog. I think that the handler _could_ reliably do this, but based on the DVD it does seem that the reward can be more effectively delivered from someone who isn't holding the lead.

Can nosework be trained with only one person? Most definitely. But I do like a lot of the things Ramsey shows in the DVD. I don't consider it a waste of money at all, but I do wish I had a second person to help with training. At $60, or however much it is, it's still WAY cheaper than a beginner class (which I paid $99 for) where I learned almost nothing. Hiding a treat in a box and letting my dog figure out on her own how to randomly find it is not what I consider training. There was no introduction to the scent, there was no expectation of a search pattern, there was no mention of an indicator (actually- the thought of a trained indication was _discouraged_). In my opinion, the DVD gives you much more info than a beginner class, AND sets you up for a more successful trial experience if you want to go to competitions.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

wildo said:


> The Ramsey method relies a lot on the dog getting amped up from seeing "the trainer" place the hide (whether that's the real hide, or acting like it's the real hide). It does this as a way to both build drive as well as to teach a search pattern. One thing that I found desperately missing from our "random box" nosework classes is even a semblance of a search pattern.
> 
> Also, in the Ramsey system, the trainer is the one to throw the reward for the dog. I think that the handler _could_ reliably do this, but based on the DVD it does seem that the reward can be more effectively delivered from someone who isn't holding the lead.
> 
> Can nosework be trained with only one person? Most definitely. But I do like a lot of the things Ramsey shows in the DVD.


Interesting. Okay, I get building the drive- but does that not teach the dog to drive ahead, potentially missing a find right at the threshold? Also what do you mean by throw the reward? Do you still reward at the find first in order to build the association as well as develop an alert?

I agree, my box class did not teach a search pattern at all- I guess I'm lucky that Mikko is very methodical in searching as has developed his own.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Mikko- it's funny you mention that about driving ahead and potentially missing a find right at the threshold. My class instructor also had the same feeling and _continually_ pressed me about not amping Pimg up in class. Here are my thoughts:

1) Dogs learn when at a certain arousal level; it's a bell curve. Get them under aroused and they couldn't care less about your training. Get them over aroused and they can't process the learning. I want my dog at the threshold of peak arousal for learning, and taking her into a room dead as a doorknob is not, in my opinion, conducive to learning. The two other dogs in my beginning nosework class were severely under aroused, in my opinion. One of the forum members here was in my class, and when she started asking for arousal building behaviors (a hand touch really got her dog moving and stimulated) her success in finding the hide was _drastically_ improved. The other dog's owner was about as dull as can be, and her dog struggled and struggled to show any sign of life, let alone arousal and learning. I always amped Pimg up with some tugging right before releasing her to "find it" and she was quite often very fast and determined to find the hide.

2) The DVD _does_ take into account this common problem of the dog blowing past the find. In fact, a large portion of the DVD is dedicated to exactly this. Ramsey's "search pattern" philosophy teaches the dog to search the closest spot first. When the dog is over aroused and blows past, he will simply move the find to a closer spot for a number of repetitions. You well know that dogs are so freakin' smart. They figure out fast that they don't have to blow past the first couple boxes/drawers/whatever because the find might just be in there. Once they are adjusted to looking close first, he will then reposition the find to a harder location. In a lot of ways, this is the same thing as in Susan Garrett's 2x2 method with training the entry poles prior to adding the next set of poles. Almost exactly the same...


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Okay, that makes sense and seems like it would definitely get the dog to search the closer areas. This might be useful in really distracting settings too (last week in class we took a field trip to the local pet store-which Mikko loves- and had to find the treat/odor there- the first time Mikko found many treats before he found the one with the odor  )

Mikko loves the game and has always loved the game of finding things- the wait gets him amped up enough. It's funny when I leave the room to hide it, he's complaining the whole time- barking and crying


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

> At $60, or however much it is, it's still WAY cheaper than a beginner class (which I paid $99 for) where I learned almost nothing.


I paid $175 for a six week class :wild:


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

> At $60, or however much it is, it's still WAY cheaper than a beginner class (which I paid $99 for) where I learned almost nothing.





Heidigsd said:


> I paid $175 for a six week class :wild:


Luckily I got a deal on the first set of classes (4 1.5 hr classes) for $40, but had to pay regular price, $102 for the next set. I would have been disappointed if I paid the full price for the first set since Mikko already knew how to search.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I thought some of you might be interested - Andrew created a yahoo group to discuss nosework: noseworktraininggroup : Nosework Training Group

I bet he would be able to answer questions about how to train on your own, or maybe other people could share how they do it.

He's also on Facebook, both as an individual, and with his business Ramsey K9.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

We just started Nosework 1 a month ago (no class last week because our trainer was judging Nosework competitions in Oregon) But I have to say we are really really enjoying this class. From the second week on Dexter has really done well. The first week he kept running up to my daughter and all the other handlers and smelling them, giving kisses and ignoring the boxes, well, until he found out they had food in there. At one point he stopped to check himself out in the mirror and the whole class said at the same time, "Yes we know your handsome" LOL Hes the only german shepherd in class surprisingly, there are many small dogs even a yorkie. It is so much fun (except for the waiting and the 1 1/2 hr drive to and from). But good to see how other dogs detect the scent. There are a few border terriers in the class that are awesome. They are like german shepherds in little bodies


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

meant just started an Intro to Nosework Class. Duh


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## CMorton (Oct 28, 2000)

Sassy and I are starting basically a beginners obed class, and the facility also does Nosework classes and holds trials so we may try to get into that.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Good luck with the nosework. I did it with Stella and it got to be a lot of fun as she progressed. Unfortunately the class I was in was moved to a time we can't go... But I have the scent kit and still play "find it" in the house with the birch odor. Wish I could find a class to go to.....


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## CMorton (Oct 28, 2000)

I'm hoping they stay on Tuesdays bc that's the only weekday I can do activities on due to my work schedule. We went to a seminar on it a few years ago, just haven't had time to commit to it. My dog loved it


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

My dog is really high drive and initially would get really excited and run past everything, and would be panting a bit because she was excited so wasn't catching the scent. But I just let her work through it, and she figured out that when she settled down, she was able to find the scent faster and that helped quite a bit.

Here's a couple of vids from my beginners class. She army crawled under the table, it was hilarious (I accidentally pointed to the find, I didn't know it was there, she just hadn't checked the table yet, I should have just let her keep working). One time she jumped on top of a cafeteria table to search, she's such a ham. lol <3

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202540459452779&set=vb.531374363544411&type=2&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=807584262590085&set=vb.531374363544411&type=2&theater


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## Saxony (Mar 29, 2013)

I have an NW1 on my male and am training my puppy bitch-she will trial this summer. It's a blast and the dogs love it. Big jump to the NW2 level-if you look at the results online its frequent that some trials have no titles earned and others just a few!


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

My girl was born for this stuff, she can find anything. We have to get started, I think Ill up our game by bringing her to home depot and having the employees hide her ball and well search.


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