# Tracking Harness



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I am wondering what harnesses you all use and what are the benefits of using one.

Nadia is the kind of dog that wants to blast to the end of the track full speed. She rarely has her nose down to the ground and therefore she never takes any food off the track. Part of this is my fault. I have been feeding normally rather than skipping meal(s) the day before. 

Last week was the best track she has ever done and it was with only 4 pieces of food on the track. I did not feed her dinner the day before and strongly feel that this is why she did well. I also used the highest value treat I can come up with-veal. I feed raw, so the veal was simply blanched, cooled and bagged. It was very stinky which also helped. 

However, the veal will not last forever and my finances won't allow me to purchase more, so I am wondering if a tracking harness will maybe help at all. At our next training class I am going to use two lines on her so I can "steer" her better and have more traction to slow her down. She plows thru so fast and is so strong that I can barely control her right now. 

Thoughts and opinions would be ever so helpful!

Thanks in Advance!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I use a fursaver only for tracking. I use to use a tracking harness for protection, so when I put that on the dog it meant time to do bitework!
You can run your line around the belly of the dog to slow her down. Pulsing the line will also communicate slower pace. What is the reason for her hecticness?
If that doesn't work, then maybe worth the purchase of a bottcher harness.
Bottcher harness
There was a thread a long time ago about running the leash/line around the dogs lower belly for more control...not sure how to search for that, but I remember there was a special name coined for it!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I personally don't use a harness. I actually prefer to track my faster dogs in a prong collar and run the line between their legs. A slight amount of back tension on the line, they usually hit the collar and the line between their legs will pull their head down the harder they pull. I will also correct my dogs on the track if they really start pulling, but corrections need to be well timed in correspondence with rewards on the track- which means you have to have a pretty good idea of where your dog is going to screw up. 

Most people I know that use a harness use a Bottcher. Leerburg | Leather Bottcher Although I think this sort of artificially creates a head down dog. I think it's more beneficial to look at your training and ask yourself...Why? 

Why is the dog racing down the track? Is there a jackpot at the end? Have you inadvertently created a situation where the only rewards are further down the track and therefore the beginning has no meaning?  Try dropping a reward pile 5 feet in or an article. Something where she has to stop so that there is more value to the beginning of the track and she has to pay more attention to get it. 

Now, I haven't seen your dog. So I don't really know what is going on...but my guess would be that somewhere along the way you missed a step. Go back and try to remember when she last had solid nose deep tracking and figure out what changed. My bet is that equipment won't necessarily improve your dog's deep nose.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Nikon used to be very fast (though his head is/was down) and I could get him to a perfect speed using a line around his waist, BUT it never "trained" anything, meaning the second it came off, he was right back to plowing through. I've also tracked him on a prong (live ring) and it had no effect. I've found that the way to deal with getting the correct pace and rhythm is in how I LAY the track, not how I handle the track, if that makes sense.

I've never understood how the Botcher harness improves the head being down, since as far as I can see it doesn't attach TO the head? And if it did, the dog's oppositional reflex would probably force the head up. I think correct deep nose tracking needs to be trained. If it is achieved via equipment, you'd probably have the same result I did - as soon as it comes off, the dog is back to the bad habit.


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Forget the harness idea. Train the dog to track.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

I agree with what others have said about planning the track and teaching the dog to track. Might require taking some steps back but go back to building foundations first.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I agree with the others: you need to go back to the beginning and teach her the foundations of tracking. By continuing as you are, all you are doing is reinforcing bad tracking.

Also, if you need to starve your dog, you are doing something wrong. I don't have a problem with skipping a meal because you are going tracking and she will get a lot to eat that way so it's more of a late feed.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I like the Bottcher bc it's so distinctly different from any other sort of harness and it keeps the leash in place. It does not mechanically keep the head down, though. For me it was just easier than the line under the leg--if the dog circles, it's easier to get the line back in place.

The best way to get the head down is to teach the dog to track--and to work harder, older tracks on short grass or dirt.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I don't see how a harness would be of any benefit here. If anything it makes the dog feel more free to go fast and work in a hectic manner. A collar, with the line underneath the dog can help slow the dog down, and also pulls the head down toward the track when the dog pulls into the collar. Now some dogs will get oposition reflex going in response to that and the pressure pulling the head downward will make them more determined to pick it up, in which case using the collar to keep the head down will backfire. But then you just have the line out to the side or down the back rather than underneath and the oposition reflex goes away.

Basically I agree with the others. A change in equipment is not the answer. More training is. Mainly getting back to basics and building a better tracking foundation and guiding her to the correct tracking behavior. And as people said, the bigger part of tracking training comes in the laying of the track itself, not running it with the dog. So a lot of planning needs to go into how the track is laid, as the track itself is the biggest teacher.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Excellent responses and a lot to think about.

I think that one of the reasons she is so hectic on the tracking field is that we started so late. She was 16 months old when I got her and it was considerably later when I started her in tracking. She instantly started plowing thru the track, never taking the food and being sloppy in general. I have tried letting her watch me lay the track, putting food in every step, I always use the line under her right leg to pull her head down and yet she continues to forge ahead. By giving her one meal the day prior and using the veal that was extremely smelly, and only putting a few pieces on the track itself, she did better than she has ever done. I had to wonder if this was because she was actually trying to track my steps looking for more of the good food or if it was a fluke.
It is very difficult to get anyone to film her as we do the track, because everyone is normally busy doing their own, but I will see what I can come up with tomorrow.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> getting back to basics and building a better tracking foundation and guiding her to the correct tracking behavior. And as people said, the bigger part of tracking training comes in the laying of the track itself, not running it with the dog. So a lot of planning needs to go into how the track is laid, as the track itself is the biggest teacher.


Not to hijack, but where can I read more about this? Book/link recommendation about building a good foundation and laying a correct track?


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Steve White's website i2iK9.com is a good place to find out about laying the foundation for your dog's tracking. He recorded a seminar in Sacramento, CA that goes into specific details about his methods. I followed it up with Joanne Plumb's two DVD set with Schutzhund-specific info for competition tracking.

Both sets of videos are available at BowWowFlix.com


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I am really bummed today. I got to training and waited for everyone else, only to get a text about 1/2 hour later that the TD would be later, and that no one else was coming. Had I known that I woulda stayed home too. So I laid the tracks for my two anyway. I screwed up because I fed them dinner last night, so Nadia didn't track for beans. Z did good on his. Then we packed up and came home. I will work on OB and jumps here this afternoon.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Don't be too hard on yourself - it is not too late to re-teach although it will be harder than starting from scratch. Look at it as yet another great learning experience 

The Joanne Plumb resource is a good suggestion. I also really like the Johnson tracking books as well (skipping the beginning "toy part" used in the track but moving towards the footstep section). It is an older resource but I think there is lots of valuable info in there. The other nice thing about the Johnson book (I think it is the "Tracking Dog" one) is that it does outline how tracks can be laid over a progressive period of time based on how the dog is doing. 

There are also so many other variables such as how the reward is placed in the track; what do you do with your dog right after the track; use of toys or no toys along the track; scent pads/circles in styarting etc. Always best to be able to have someone physically help you along but sometimes we as handlers also have to learn to "read" our dogs and be congnizant of the fact that not every method will work for one particular dog. 

Jax was a very challenging dog to train in tracking. I too, trained her in too much drive in tracking (something this dog did not need in any way shape or form as she brings that into her work without needed additional prompting for such). Going back to basics was the best thing I ever did for her. Some people use jackpot food rewards/a toy etc at the end of track, while for others, this would be counterproductive. Some people do a big drive release at the end; again, for others, this might lead to increased hectic behaviour with the next track etc. 

You have someone to work with you though? You mentioned a training director...start writing things down - keep a "tracking journal" to remind yourself of some of the little things that can really make a difference....another idea might be to get "tracking homework" so to speak so you can get some things to work on through the week if the director is not available? When teaching foundations, there is much vlaue in being able to work on the elements at least a few times a week. 

Keep us posted and good luck


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Excellent post Northern GSD's  Thank you! 

Today was another bomb for Nadia. I got frustrated with her track.

She was fine the first three steps. Then all of a sudden she was about 2 feet off the track to the left. Now we were walking into the breeze, so she should have been able to stay on track. But every step she took, she got off track. I would stop to let her work it out and get back on track, but then she would just quit. Head up, no interest. Tell her such again. She would get back on track long enough to find food and BAM...right off to the left again....

So, I am thinking about starting ALL over again. Get some one to hold her so she can see me lay the track (or back tie her for it) w/food every step. If that doesn't work, I don't know what to do. 

She is so awesome in OB. Really does me proud. Then comes protection, and she is the kind of dog that will not 'share' the tug, or toy with any one, She STILL will not bring the toy back to me even just playing at home. She will Hopp over the jump, grab the Orbee Ball, and then tries to go off to do her own thing, rather than to bring it back to me. She is nippy with my TD to the point that we cannot put her in defense at all. We have been doing a lot of easy, quiet, mellow 'getting to know ya' kinda stuff, with TD trying to play a quiet game of tug with her, and if he tries to pick it up when she is close, she will nip at him to keep him away from it. I am beyond frustrated!!

Hier is great. Sit is okay, platz is great. 

If it wasn't for OB I would be ready to just give up right about now.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

As for tracking, no reason not to go back to food in every step and have her on an extremely short leash - meaning you are right behind her - so she can't move off the track and you can show her where the next step is if needed. Keep the tracks very short so she has success right away and then build on that.

My dog had some very bad beginning tracking training and I had to go back to the very beginning with him to remove his confusion. He's rapidly improving now that his foundation training is much better.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Ah, it can be so frustrating at times....I have lived through the frustration of really having to problem solve in our tracking as well. 

Don't give up - I really think you are right in saying maybe you should start from scratch. I think this may help with reducing the frustration as well if you start with a "clean slate" and work your way up. Less frustration for both you and your dog 

Another suggestion I am going to make that some may or may not agree with is for early tracking foundation, when doing a straight leg from the scent pad, lay it with the wind at your back (not the wind coming into your face). Rationale being that if the wind is coming into you/the dog, perhaps it is "spreading" the scent too much into the dog's face/nose. This can cause a higher nose and casting off/more hectic tracking. 

Think out a a very well laid out plan to re-start your tracking. If you don't have a basic theoretical foundation knoweldge wise, get versed with the basics if you can before you re-start (maybe you already do?)?. It is SO much easier to wait until you have a solid plan in place and go from there than it is to repeatedly have to go back to fix things. 

Keep your chin up!! You will get there with perserverence and patience 

Are you working with someone is who knowledgeable in tracking/a club?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree about the wind, going against it is a challenge. I also like laying serpentines and using food, though if the dog isn't food motivated that also provides a challenge.
Wetting down the dogs muzzle/mouth about a half hour before the track helps if conditions are dry/windy too. Clears the olfactories.
Don't get discouraged! You are learning so much, alongside your fuzzybutts!


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Zisso, can I ask what you are using for bait. Also when your dog gets off track given the age do you give her a correction. then the command for track to get her going again. If you want another book that starts with basics and does not worry about where you are at. Try "Tracking from the beginning" by gary patterson.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Jane - that is a great suggestion about the wetting down the nose/muzzle!

I will also second the Patterson resource as another book that would be worth reviewing.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Zisso, sometimes I think to much and I was mulling your problem and what would I do. 
First i would take the dog on a free walk to a new area and watch to see if she naturally puts her nose in the grass and smells like crazy or she does not show much interest. Might help to see what you have to start with. Also when I was starting tracking I had a lot of question and while reading books helped what was also a good thing was that our training director for our club was adamant that we track as much as we trained ob for our dogs. This helped to develop the skills in our dogs to where when we take time off due to snow they maybe a little rusty but pick up tracking again quickly. 

The reason why I like the book "Tracking from the Beginning" is that with the 3 track method you have the first track to use to pint to the bait in the trench to get the dog going and by the third track the dog is then getting a better idea of what needs to be done and can start to calm down and do the work.

If you want to do the backtie for tracking instead of having her watch you lay the track have her watch another dog track that shows the behavior you desire reward that dog with your dogs favorite treat and praise that dog in front of yours. Try that as a different way of backtie i.e. create jealousy in your dog instead of having her watch you lay the track might get better results.

Lastly unless your dog has an allergy be open to trying different bait that she will be more wanting to track and be rewarded with. Hope this helps you to start with.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Wow. There are some really GREAT suggestions here. Wind at the back does encourage a deeper nose, and wetting down the nose can help them pick up the scent better. Also staying really close by on the line can help keep the dog on track. Even with my older tracking dogs I rarely go much gurther away than 10 feet unless being farther away IS what I am working on. 

I think though that if you really simplify it down there are only 2 possible problems. 1. Lack of motivation 2. Lack of understanding/conflict. 

If you really think it's a lack of motivation problem- you need to rethink how you're addressing the rewards on the track. Remember you don't decide what the reward is...your dog does. Obviously tracking for food is the easiest (although I have also used toys) and there are things you can do to play with food motivation. When I am tracking frequently I no longer feed my dogs meals or I will significantly cut their meals. Hunger will build desire for food on the track. The second thing I would look at is the type of food on the track. Some of my dogs prefer hot dogs, some will do just fine for Natural Balance, some are just crazy for kibble....but others need much more. When roast beef/pork roast goes on sale I'll buy it, cook it, and chunk it up for tracking bait. I'll also use sardines or cheese. My dogs really seem to like that and it's much more rewarding than more standard "doggy" treats.

The second problem-understanding- requires you to go all the way back to the beginning and reset the foundation. I remember when I started trying to bring the articles on to the track for Argos. It created some conflict because he knew what they were, but he also knew he wanted to keep going forward on the track. Stopping on the track was confusing for him. Watching him carefully you'd see him catch scent of the article about 5 steps before...all of a sudden his head would come up and he would "get lost" and then cast off the side of the track until about 5 steps after the article where he would find the track again. He was avoiding the article because somewhere along the way I'd missed a step about how the article fit into the track. Also watch your track laying. Is what you want clear? When I start my dogs I will lay a pretty obvious footprint. My TD used to joke that I laid a puppy track Ray Charles could find. I fade it as soon as I can...but if they need it I keep it until the concept is clear in their mind. 

If you go back and more clearly outline your expectations- you should be able to see where your problem is...and there is NOTHING wrong with going back to basics to get it right- although I know it can feel frustrating when you've been working and not making progress. Figuring out what is wrong is the first step in creating a plan for fixing it.


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## Tim Connell (Nov 19, 2010)

+1 on Steve White tracking foundation. Bear in mind that my dog I used this method with is not a precision Sch dog, for points, although many people use his style for that purpose. I started a second dog this way as well, and it worked well with him also. He has since been sold as a dual purpose green dog.
I used a slightly modified version, as both dogs were pups when started. They were started on scent pads in grass, then short tails off the pad. Then, I went straight to HITT method on pavement. My Malinois is extremely food driven, so to slow him down, I smeared the food into the pavement a bit to make him have to work a little...I also graduated to a live prong, to keep his speed down, with light checks to remind him now and then. I like the progression of training on the most difficult surface first, then concrete, dirt, grass, snow, and wooded areas became easy.
I liked the other advantage of being able to train hard surfaces all winter long, when the snow was too deep for tracking puppies.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

First I want to thank you all for the wonderful help you are giving me in figuring my girl out. It means the world to me that you are all taking the time to give me so much information!

From the time I got Nadia at 16 months old, she has always seemed to keep her nose high in the air, eyes up, always looking where she is going,(like she is always on the lookout for a squirrel), more than sniffing the ground. 100% forward motion, 100% of the time. No matter where we are. I have always wondered if she is air scenting more than anything. 

I have tried everything I can think of for food on the track, short of sardines. I have tried Natural Balance rolls-nada...chicken-nada, garlic chicken-nada, beef-nada, bison-nada, venison-nada. Two weeks ago she did the best track she ever did, and it was with veal: two pieces on the scent pad, two pieces in the middle of the track and hand fed at the end. I try to get her to engage with play with the orbee ball at the end-nada, but a tug!! Oh yeah!! So my take on it is that she is simply not food motivated, and I know for a fact that she is toy motivated. I scruff my toe into the track as I go to really set the track obvious for her, but she does not track my footsteps. Keeping her head down is extremely tough because first, she seems to be a sight dog(motivated by sight over smell) if that makes sense, and because she is 100% forward motion. Combining these two means that she powers thru as fast as she can to the end, and to be honest I am usually not strong enough to keep her head down even with the leash under her. This is why I was thinking of a special tracking harness. I also know it has nothing to do with how long I let the track age. I can lay the track and take her right out and she will blow it. I feed early on Saturday(no later than 10am) and nothing the rest of the day. 

On the other hand, she is highly toy motivated. But how can I lay a track full of toys? Her favorites are Cuz's. She likes the Orbee ball for OB, and she hoards the Wubba's so Z can't get them. Could I start from the beginning and put her toys out and gradually switch to food? (to me this sounds ridiculous enough to [email protected]) BUT maybe if I take her out alone, lay a toy track with her back tied to a fence so she can watch me lay it????? I can't afford to buy any books right now, so will look at the library on Saturday & see if they have any mentioned above. 

I think we would both fair better if we could practice more. Right now, between the weather and my on & off again work schedule, we have only been tracking AT training. No other times. I also think that it would work better for us both if I had the time to take her alone to work on it. I normally take both dogs if I do get a chance to work in an extra tracking session. I just can't afford to run them back and forth. 

Thank goodness it is just one dog having this issue...Zisso's issue last week was that he didn't want to STOP tracking! His nose was so deep and stayed that way half way back to the truck-couldn't engage him in play for reward because he was certain there was more food somewhere!


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## Tim Connell (Nov 19, 2010)

My dog tracks for his ball at the end of the track...but if it's Sch you are doing, try to slow him down, since you are looking for a methodical track. I've seen some people try not having the big ya-ya party at the end of the track, just so a super toy motivated dog won't try rushing to the end...in a sense, the dog rushes the track, knowing it can "cheat" and still get the required reward at the end of the track. I've seen people just have an article indication at the end, a little bit of food, or an article, and a subdued presentation of the toy, (if at all) upon a nice calm article indication, and after calm praise...just to keep the dog from amping itself up too much and trying to rush the track. Speaking of food, I haven't met a dog yet that doesn't go crazy over frozen Bil-Jac as a training treat.

I've heard of a method somewhere along the line of burying a series of articles or toys along the track..maybe someone out there is more familiar with it than I am.

I usually bury my ball at the end of the track, or hide it under leaves, or some other barrier, since I don't want the dog visually cueing on it at the end, and rushing the end of the track. I will not put a decoy at the end of the track with this dog, or else he would be so amped, I would never slow him down. It's hard enough keeping him slow for a ball sometimes.


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## szariksdad (Jun 25, 2010)

Zisso; i would still recommend instead of a harness a prong with a short lead and if your dog knows the command and does not follow through correct as needed. I also think backtieing nad have the dog watch you lay the track only encourages the behavior you have now. Try the backtie and have her watch another dog track correctly and reward this dog in front of her with your dogs favorite treats. i.e. a form of jealousy it might work to get her want the same reward. I heard of this working for difficult high drive dogs on a law enforcement training website.

How big are the pieces of veal you are putting in each step, if they are to big and the dog raises her head to eat this can lead to being a distraction. I had a discussion with a national sch. guy and he recommended no more bigger than your pinky fingernail and I found this to be true in that if my dog can keep his head down and eat the treat while sniffing it keeps him engaged more on the track.

I would say go ahead and try sardines this just might be her crack to keep her head down more.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

We take a garden shovel along with us on the track and bury the balls. I've buried as many as 5 balls on a track...not just at the end because that will keep them rushing. Start teaching the balls by just laying 10 feet of clear track with a ball buried at the end. You might have to show her the first couple of times where the ball is and how to dig it out...but they usually catch on pretty fast.

Also if you only have 3 spots for food on the whole track...that's not enough to get your dog to keep her head down. Use what she likes in tiny pieces and I bait every 3 or 5 steps on my beginning dogs.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

The veal has been about the size or smaller than my pinky fingernail. In the beginning I did her track with food in every step. She barreled past it. So I went to every other step. Same thing. Then every 5 steps. same result. Like I said, the very best track she has ever done is when I pulled all the food except for the scent pad, and the middle of the track. As for why she is so hectic, I honestly do not know. When I got her, she had definitely had some training already-almost like someone had started doing SchH with her but that was the only time spent with her-I know I was told she was an outside dog, but no training was ever mentioned.


> a form of jealousy it might work to get her want the same reward. I heard of this working for difficult high drive dogs


 She definitely does have jealousy issues with my boy Z but not sure she would care if it was any other dog. Maybe if my TD held her somewhere so she could see Z track...She goes nuts if she thinks he is getting something & not her! On the flip side this could be bad too if she starts acting up and screaming to get to Z or gets nippy with my TD


> Try dropping a reward pile 5 feet in or an article. Something where she has to stop so that there is more value to the beginning of the track and she has to pay more attention to get it.


 I don’t know how I missed this on the 1st page, but it sounds like it might be something that would work for her. I do need to say tho, that at the end of the track, she really isn’t all that interested in the jackpot of food. Sometimes she eats only a few pieces-even if there is a pile of 20! So I have been working on article indication for the end of the track, followed by a fun game of tug.

As for burying the ball...I can't really do that-we train at a public park for now. I think they would have a problem with me and my brat digging up the grounds


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Was hoping to get video of our tracking today but we are to get 90% precipitation today so doubt that will happen.

After talking to TD last night we have decided that I am going to go back to the beginning with Nadia and just totally restart her. Build the proper tracking foundation with her. 

TD also got some 'new' equipment, and in that there was a tracking harness so if we need to I can use that to help her along. Another thing that I am going to try is to give her Melatonin shortly. It seems to help clear her head and I want to see if it helps her to settle into a better track. 

Lots of stuff going on today so will post back later!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I am excited for training Sunday because, with the help of a member here by sharing a book with me, I managed to get Nadia to track decently this week. Fingers crossed that we can continue to improve her ability and get her going in the right direction now  
A member is taking video of her tracking to help me see where we are going wrong and what I can do to help her perform better on the track. The video's will be a week behind the actual tracking. So for instance, this week, I should get the video of last Sunday's track, and next Sunday I should get the video of this Sundays track. I am excited to see how she improves now that I am starting her foundation over.


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