# What you think of Pedigree ?



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

Click on link for pedigree for Fern And Derek. 
"Fern" is the Female i am getting 

"Derek" is the male i will be getting 

Any comments on pedigree would be greatly appreciated:laugh: 

Thanks ! 
-Mike


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

guess no one has anything to say . thanks anyways !


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

From the title, I thought you were speaking of the dog food - don't know why, maybe cuz it's late for me. 

I'm sorry, I really can't help you with your question, I hope someone else can.


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I think some of the dogs in the background of that pedigree are nice, although I would have liked to see hip certifications and titles on the parents.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Are you getting these for breeding?


----------



## weberhaus (Jan 2, 2008)

I am a breeder of Czech lines. The dogs listed are from Czech lines. It you go back in the pedigree far enough yes there are nice dogs. But if i was buying dogs for sport or work or anything other than pets i would want hips and elbows on parens and all other dogs in the pedigree and also titled parents.
I have a female bred from these lines she was given to me as i would not have bought her. Her temperament sucks.


----------



## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

Looks like some pretty well known Czech lines. I don't know my Czech lines very well yet, but I'm familiar with most of those kennel names. I believe that Dragon GSD does x-rays on all of their breeding dogs, so just because it's not listed on the PDB does not mean that the breeder doesn't test. 

Remember, the information on the PDB can be entered and edited by anybody.


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

No i am not planning to breed them , even though they would prob make gorgeous pups . here are pictures of them . hope you enjoy as much as me .


This is the "Xavior" pup . "Fern"


This is the male "Narad" pup


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

You're getting TWO puppies at once?


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

Ya two pups at one time . Figure they can grow up together


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

spartanville is connie krebs who is a member here on the board (I see Fern's dad is Xavier)..She may be able to comment on that end of things.

I have a czech/ddr dog and let me tell ya, two of "her" would have driven me insane))

If you read around on this board there's alot of reasons to NOT get two puppies the same age, good luck to you


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

MikeMartinez10 said:


> Ya two pups at one time . Figure they can grow up together


Any way you can back out on that? I'm very surprised the breeder (is it the same breeder for both?) is allowing you to do that. If it's not the same breeder, I'd inform them both of what you are doing. 

GSD puppies are a lot of work and it's best to spread them out--about 1 a year. Not only is it not fair to the puppy--who isn't going to get 100% of our focus--but it's also not fair to YOU. One shark is often too much for people yet alone two. Another puppy is MUCH more interesting than focusing on dad's training.

Anyhow.....browse around. You'll be hard pressed to find a thread talking about the benefits of getting 2 puppies at once.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

as an afterthought, I have had this happen twice,,2 sets of dogs close in age, both passed away within 6 months of each other,,that is devastating(


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

Ya i totally agree , i know i will have my work cut out for me . I have had couple pups and it is definitely no easy task . two is just going to be twice as hard

Wow jakodaCd i am very sorry to hear about your two sets of dogs , that is very sad to hear . I understand about that if one passes away , it is very hard for the other dog .

Is there anyone out there that has had two pups at once , and raised them to be best buds ? or am i just crazy for trying to get two dogs at once ? 

I will have alot of time to devote to these dogs , i will almost always be home .


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

p.s thank you for posting , as i value everyones input .


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I did have 2 puppies at one time. They were brother and sister, Rott/Chow/Lab/Border Collie mixes. They belonged to me and my sister. I lived with my sister for 6 months helping her raise them. The boy is mine "Capone" and the girl is my sisters (Kahlua). I potty trained them and taught them how to sit, laydown, speak, give their paw. It was the hardest thing ever! They were so involved with each other that they showed no interest in me and my sister. I would never recommend that someone get 2 puppies at the same time. If anything I believe they should be at LEAST 6 months apart. At least. That way you can potty train the first one and have time to teach it basic tricks. They can still grow up together even if they are 6 months or a year apart. Just my opinion but I wouldn't think it would be fair to the puppies.


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Interestingly enough, I think that the key to raising 2 pups at once is seperation. I am firmly of the opinion that to raise 2 healthy family companions they need to be seperated the majority of the time for about the first year. Otherwise they rely too much on each other and not enough on you. We raised 2 pups and it was rough. You definitely spread yourself thin. It's not just double the vet bills and expense, double the trips outside, double the mess, it's hard to give double the love. And it's very tempting when you're tired to just let them take care of each other, play together and wear each other out so you can have sanity. This is a major mistake in my opinion.

Check this article. I think it's pretty accurate for what you can expect.
Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting

Of course if the female goes into heat with the male around that creates a whole host of problems as well. Some dogs handle it well, but you might get one of those special males that stops eating, whines constantly, or goes through drywall to get to your girl. I have a female in the house with my 3 intact males. It's a PITA. Anka goes into "lockdown" and the boys all get snarky with each other and have to go out seperately. And if that wasn't enough she goes into heat every 4 months, not 6. We will probably spay Anka in the next year or so. I would recommend altering at least one of your pups by 2 yrs.


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

I have been killing myself thinking if i should get them both or just one of them. I figure that if im going to have two dogs in the long run , why not just get them at the same time and do the potty training for both .

LaRen616 you do make a good point though , its going to be hard !!!


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

wow great in JKlatsky ! thank you


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I totally agree with the above post especially about the separation^^

Mike, I have always had multiple dogs, usually 4, altho right now i"m at 3.

I tried in the beginning, to keep atleast 2 years apart from each, The first two were 4 years apart, the elder one passed away at 13, (I was then at 3, got another back up to 4) then the second one passed away at 9. The second set, which I failed at the 2 year mark, were 1.5 years apart. THe female passed away at 13, my male passed away six months later @ 12( 

Right now I have two that are a year apart, 9 & 10 (the aussies) and then my almost 2 year gsd,,I have put myself on a self imposed (do not get another dog) until my 2 year old is atleast 4. (hard to do with all those cute puppies around)

I think it would have been much harder on the dogs if I had had only two, tho I think they knew someone was missing, they don't tend to dwell on it as much as I have(

I do know of people who have had two puppies at once, and most will tell you it was no picnic, but separating (which I think can be really hard to do!) would be key in my book.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ahh and we've all posted at once LOL..

My thought is, when you get ONE, you teach that dog all it can be, by the time they are in a place where they are atleast basically trained, socialized, etc, you bring in a puppy and that puppy will cue off that older dog..I think MUCH easier for a puppy to cue off an adult 'stable' dog is easier to train ,,pick up the good habits, vs bad ones)


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

^^^ Agree with that. I have always used my older well behaved dogs as an important role model for my new puppies. Although it was still the same rule as far as seperation for my crew. I want the puppy to look to me, not some other dog. Argos and Anka are 10 months apart, Anka and Cade are 15 months apart. (Ike we got as a senior not that long ago, so he's still settling into our group. I didn't have a hand in raising him, so I can't say)

Argos learned from Ellie. (Ellie was 5ish when Argos came home)

















Anka learned from Argos. (Argos was a year old when Anka came home)

















Cade had the benefit of Argos and Anka. I would choose which dog to use with him depending on the situation. Argos was calmer and better with people so I would use him for major crowds, like at festivals and flea markets. Anka had better obedience, more energy, and was better with dogs. So I would bring her for offlead hikes or events with lots of dogs.


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

ok so if i do decide to go with one dog , who do you guys like better . based on bloodline and overall looks .

"Fern" female 
"Derek" Male 

????????


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

In 1995 I became the owner of 3 puppies - a brother and sister and one who was 6 months younger than they were. I wasn't planning for this to happen, but it did happen. Yes, it was a lot of work. I didn't separate them but did a lot with each pup as an individual. They all three bonded well with me. All went smoothly UNTIL ...

... they hit their senior years. 

Ringer had mega vet bills, and Honey & Kelly also had some pretty heafty bills. I'm still paying them off and will be for approximately seven more years. This was bad enough ... 

... BUT all three died within nine months of each other. First Ringer who went to the Bridge a month before his 13th birthday in 2008. Two months later Kelly went to the Bridge at 12-1/2 years old. And seven months later, in March of 2009 I lost Honey 3 months before her 14th birthday. 

I'm still trying to over come losing three dogs in such a short period of time, in fact, it's only been recently that I can read the IN MEMORY and SENIOR forums, and often I get so depressed after reading them that I can't go back for many weeks. 

So instead of having problems at the beginning of a multiple puppy household, I had the majority of my problems at the end of their lives. 

Regardless of the timeframe, I personally wouldn't recommend that anyone go thru having dogs so close in age if it's at all avoidable.


----------



## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

What do you want to do with your dog? 

Since you're choosing between male and female that will make a difference. Males and females tend to have different personalities in my experience. Deciding which to go with has to do with your training style and personality. I prefer the boys (generally more forgiving in training), DH likes a good bitch. 

I would decide what I want out of my dog, and then see which one has the personality that best fits. Unfortunately, pictures and pedigrees really won't tell you anything about that. You'll need to talk to your breeder.


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

arycrest im sorry for your loss man , thats prob my biggest fear losing my dogs in such a short period . 

basically i want my dog be a family dog, and also train it to be a protection dog . Overall just best friend.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with JK when it comes to 'choice'.. For me at this moment, I have my female, so I'd go for the male)) 

I would talk to both breeders and see which one would suit your lifestyle best.


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

ya both dogs are gorgeous ! but i think the male might just be the one . i am going to talk to the breeder see which one she thinks suits me better .
Thanks everyone !!!


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Mike, it is really nice you are open to the suggestions of only one pup! I hope all goes well with it, and you won't regret having only one pup to bond with and train, but you may have regretted getting two and not giving them the attention they both deserve during their very important formative months!


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

Oh for sure , i just want what is best !


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The only people I know who've had two puppies at once (breeders who want to keep two from a nice litter, or can't decide yet) have always had someone else help out by taking one puppy. They need to "learn the ropes" without each other, and honestly sometimes I feel even ONE puppy demands more time than I can give! I had a puppy from my breeder for several weeks. We did crate training, house breaking, riding in the car, basic obedience, and LOTS of socialization. I have three other dogs of various ages and they "helped" teach the puppy the ropes as well as play with her and help me wear her out! I can't imagine anyone intentionally keeping two together.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

MikeMartinez10 said:


> Ya i totally agree , i know i will have my work cut out for me . I have had couple pups and it is definitely no easy task . two is just going to be twice as hard
> 
> Wow jakodaCd i am very sorry to hear about your two sets of dogs , that is very sad to hear . I understand about that if one passes away , it is very hard for the other dog .
> 
> Is there anyone out there that has had two pups at once , and raised them to be best buds ? or am i just crazy for trying to get two dogs at once ?


It's not just twice as hard, it's really not fair for the puppies. There is just no way a human can spend as much quality time training and socializing 2 puppies as well as one...

Too funny cause the 'best buds' is one of the biggest issues and problems! They WILL be best buds and the humans are kind of the periferal feeders/walkers/people at the edge of their world. While they are the center of each others. NOT the relationship most of us want with our dogs.

As someone mentioned, most responsible breeders won't even sell two puppies to anyone, or another puppy to someone who has one. They know it's not going to be the best thing for their puppy.

Have you had a chance to read these articles?

http://www.uvhs.org/behavioral_docs/double_trouble.pdf

Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

Great Articles Thank you so much .


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

MikeMartinez10:

i think it's better to get one puppy
at a time. get one pup and train it
and socialize it. after one pup is trained
and socialized then get another one. 

if i wanted a second i would wait 2 years before bringing
in another dog. after 2 years the first dog
is well trained and highly socialized. 

with you being home a lot you're going
to have it easy when it comes to training
and socializing. having time for a dog is priceless.


----------



## charlie319 (Apr 6, 2009)

I have a 22 month old male and a 5 month old female. In my case, it just happened, but, if I was looking to get two closely aged dogs, I'd still do it the same way because GSD's are notorious for dog-dominant females and I'd like to give the male a "leg-up on being the dominant, if only for the sake of his working temperament. I don't know that much about the lines on your pups, but Id wager the male has slightly better breeding. 

However, if you're thinking about breeding, go ahead and splurge on as high quality female as your pocket will allow you. Heck, buy her on papers if you must to get a Nationals' potential pup. Let her think she's King-Kong's daughter, bulletproof and immortal, train her and title her in SchH and when she's good and developed, do your homework and hire yourself as good a stud as you can afford and then you'll have your male with enough age separation to give you a break when they do pass on.


----------



## spartshep (Feb 20, 2008)

I am not sure what it is you want me to comment on here, but I will say this. Allegra was one of the finest Czech females I have ever owned. Jamba and Wicky are her daughters and follow right in her footsteps. Allegra was one of the foundation bitches from the Anrebri Kennel. I brought her over bred to Frankie Anrebri and Xavior is out of that litter. I don't know much about the other litter, but I do love the blood in Xavior's litter. I would only purchase 1 pup at a time, especially with these bloodlines...they, as all puppies do, require alot of work.


----------



## MikeMartinez10 (Mar 18, 2010)

thank you everyone for posting , this forum is filled with helpful information . 

Spartshep : yes Frankie and Allegra have to be two of my favorite dogs , I think the female will be a great bitch .


----------

