# Dogs with Anxiety - Can you train it out of them? - Long



## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

So this is my story to date: Willow is a rescue (parents unknown to me) and is about 19 months old now but I have had her since she was a pup. She has been to numerous classes throughout her life, puppy, basic, advanced, CGC, etc, etc. She is a very good dog in class and around the house, however, when she gets outside she is what I call hyperaware and I just realized a little fearful and anxious. Because of this when she is out on walks she barks at other dogs that are on leash and behind fences.
The school we attended used corrections and when she was about 8 months old we started using a prong. While the prong worked to help her heel a bit better it never worked to “correct” the behavior or the barking.

About six weeks ago I consulted with a private trainer about Willow and she did an evaluation on her. She is a trainer that is mostly positive but she can and will use different methods depending on the issue to be solved. She told me about the slight anxiety that she was seeing so she put us on a positive training program. We have started working with a Thundershirt (pressure wrap to relieve anxiety) when Willow is out and she showed me some exercises from the book Control Unleashed which we have been working on and practicing for a few weeks. According to the trainer, using these methods should boost Willows confidence and trust in me as the handler. 

So, to get to the point of my post, I have been wondering lately if this is going to be how she is for the rest of her life? I am soliciting other people's success or current stories and/or any other training methods that might work. With the training we are doing, do you think it is possible to get to a point where we can take a walk down the street and her not bark at other dogs walking down the street? Is it possible to "train" anxiety out of a dog?

Please know that if this is an issue her whole life I will deal with it. This is in no way a post saying I am giving up.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

congrats to you for seeking help and continueing with training and exposure with Willow.......

i understand completely what your going through as i have a dog similar........to answer your question i don't think you can ever train anxiety and fear out of a dog, its always going to be lurking there..........however, you can certainly gain confidence through training and exposure........applying good leadership and trust your dog can look to you for support in uncomfotable situations........alot of focus work, and learning how to read your dog, things that trigger reactions etc..........its can take time to put together the right program that works for the individual....a good trainer/behviorist should be able to provide guidence in that area......alot of it is up to the owner, it takes alot of time and dedication to work through these issues....

i find these fearful dogs are super sensative and pick up So much from the handlers actions...........our body lauguage, our thoughts and mental state (and dogs can pick up on our emotional state) etc............Alot of it is catching the behavior before it escalates, this takes careful studying of your dogs signals....

i also think you have to be careful what kind of corrections you give depending on the situation.........for a stronger correction i will usually give a nudge and a "no" i don't use prong corrections because it makes the situation worse.........these are all things you need to figure out for each indicidual...

there are alot of different and new training tecniques now, alot of trainers are using the CAT method which can work for some.......

best of luck, its can be frustrating but rewarding when you start seeing improvements.........


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks for the response. To clarify, we are no longer using a prong or corrections. We are currently using a flat collar and I am considering a harness. The new trainer gave me "homework" with a list of books to read so I read in one of them that any pressure on the neck can increase their reactions so I am going to ask her about that when we meet next. I have also been reading Calming Signals and a big picture book on dog body language which has helped me to pick up on her signals better and pull her back into her comfort zone. 

I have been out practicing with other dogs/handlers and we start at a distance of about 50-60 yards and then we work closer, currently can get to about 30 feet with no issues. Then we may move to some parallel walking with about 30 ft distance between the 2 dog/handlers. We do several variations of us moving closer to the other pair and always making sure that Willow is comfortable. When we reach the point of her vocalizing then we move back and try again. Once we do some more practice session then we will meet back with the trainer and try to work our way all the way up to the other dog. 

Alot of this practicing is treat/reward for looking at the other dog and then looking back at me and during out last practice session during our parallel walking she was mostly looking at me and ignoring the other dog so I took that as a good sign.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

It sounds like you are doing a good job of working on this. Elisabeth (with Stark) uses a harness for Stark's reactivity and really likes the results she is getting from it. She has a couple of posts talking about it.

To answer your questions in the OP, it is definitely possible to get to the point where you are walking down the street and she doesn't bark at other dogs but IMO the anxiety will always be there (just under the surface) to some degree. You can change the conditioned response to the anxiety so that instead of barking, she looks to you for reassurance but she will likely always be a bit anxious. 

I had a reactive foster that would make quite a scene when he saw dogs walking down the street. He's a big 80lb guy so it's pretty scary for most people but he is not aggressive at all and if he actually went face to face with another dog, he was really good with them. While he was in my care, I got him to the point where we could walk through a crowd of dogs at an event and he wouldn't react unless another dog barked at him first. He was even used as the "friendly" dog for the CGC test all day once and he did wonderfully.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Along with what the others have posted, diet may play a part into anxiety. A raw diet with limited carbs/sugars will give the dog proper nutrition without the unneeded additives.


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks Jamie. I really just want to be able to walk down the street without the neighbors thinking I have a vicious attack dog and my hope is to be able to get her out on hiking trails, parks and stuff without overwhelming her! Like your foster she is actually very sweet to other dogs on the occasions she is allowed to meet them. 

Jane: I will research diet some more. She is currently on a holistic kibble. If you looked in my pantry and fridge and observed the bareness you would know that grocery shopping and proper meal planning is not my thing but if it helps I would be willing to give it a shot, however that might be a last resort.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I've noticed a BIG increase in Pimg's confidence (which is what I consider the opposite of nervousness) from doing agility. Not that I am saying agility is the answer to a nervous dog- but some "job" in general might help. I don't know if you are doing anything like this...


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

thats how my zero is right now. the trainer i have know for a few years says he needs a confident boost as well, so when we go for walks he wears a back pack full of water bottles. it makes him feel important and thats his job is to carry them for me. i carry y clicker and treats everywhere! constantly re-enforcing "watch me" so when he starts barking at a dog i can get his attention, when he sees dogs and doesnt bark i click and treat him. and when hes tired, like completly pooped is when he doesnt care who is walking on the other side of the street. but im still working with him. he still 90% barks at new dogs he sees.


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> I've noticed a BIG increase in Pimg's confidence (which is what I consider the opposite of nervousness) from doing agility. Not that I am saying agility is the answer to a nervous dog- but some "job" in general might help. I don't know if you are doing anything like this...


 I have considered agility and even called the place on the southside but I am not sure Willow is in a place were she can roam off leash around other dogs. She would hightail it straight to the first playmate she could find (I know I am not exciting enough for her ).

I have also heard of using the backpack. I will talk to my trainer about this one as well as the harness and get her thoughts.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Yeah- I think a backpack is a great idea! Like I said, I wasn't suggesting agility as the end all- be all fix; just a job in general. The backpack might serve this purpose well. Not sure if Willow will feel the pack with the thundershirt on though. I've never seen a thundershirt. I'm sure your trainer can instruct you on that. Good luck!

(BTW- by this summer, we will have more/less a full set of quality agility equipment in my back yard. You're welcome to come over and try it out if you like... open invitation, so no worries either way. [NW Indy])


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i wouldn't suggest an agility class until you have better control.........although it can be a good confidence builder, its also very exciting to the dogs so keeping things under control takes a bit more work.....

sounds like your doing a good job, i would stay with controlled situations for a while.


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

I have an anxious dog and firmly believe that he will always have anxiety issues. He is certainly a lot better than what he was when we first adopted him... but I believe his anxiety stems both from negative past experience (neglect and abandonment) and week nerve due to poor breeding (breeding strictly for color - white - and ignoring everything else). 

There are certainly things we have done that have made the anxiety better. Having a firmly established routine has helped tremendously, however, this has backfired at times because his anxiety increases when something is out of the ordinary in his routine. Example: my college aged brother lives with us, and Nova is used to him leaving on Friday and returning on Sunday. When my brother was on his semester break, Nova freaked out a bit the first couple of weeks that my brother didn't return.

We've also found that he simply needs to have the opportunity to run willy nilly with no direction whatsoever. His daily off leash time is very important: the first thing he does every morning is run around gleefully in the yard. I honestly don't believe he would be as calm as he is without that opportunity. We've gone on trips to places without fenced yards and by the end of the weekend, he's definitely showing some stress. 

He definitely does better with the opportunity to work but not necessarily away from home. We have taken him to plenty of classes and most trips are positive... but he still freaks out whenever we head for the car. He sprints for the car and doesn't want to be left home, and enjoys the car ride, but is always a bit more keyed up while we're away from home. I honestly don't think more exposure will help... he's just always going to be a bit of a "freak fest" with things like this. He's certainly not unmanagable, but is a completely different dog when he's at home versus when we're out someplace.

I wouldn't rule out things like agility, tracking, etc. to keep your dog's mind stimulated, but consider doing them at home, at least at first. We've built a DIY agility course for Nova in our yard.  He loves learning new things and learning new things that allow him to run around are even better. He's also doing really well in skijoring training.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I had an anxious dog and, no, he never really got "over" it but he was fine as a pet and family member. Washed out completely as a working dog........

One thing about correcting the barking is timing. I don't think it is so good once they "go off" - better to anticipate and correct for breaking a command such as not heeling or looking at you. JMO and that was what I was taught that worked for me. 

It *did* work better for me to desensitize as much as I could but also incorporate obedience into our routine. When we approach a strange dog, he was put into a heel command and was corrected for breaking that command - but the heel was well trained before I ever tested him around dogs then we went a long time working it out with fenced dogs after that.

The big test for him was when we were approached by an offlead pack of dogs and I was able to put him in a sit stay while I chased them off. It is good to get your dog to sit when being approached by other dogs too because it is a calming behavior for those dogs being sent by your dog.

But you know each dog is different and the best solution for me may not be for your dog. Best to continue with someone you really trust. It is hard to get people to let your dog be around a reactive dog. I also had an acquaintance who taught dog obedience class. She knew I had control of him so we would just go and be on the perifery at the edge of his comfort range.........


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i would suggest tracking if you want to do a lower keyed activity until you get a handle on more focus and ob training.........i would wait on agility until you get a handle on the other......


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

We are definitely not going to be doing agility. It was something I thought about when she was *a lot* younger and I just called the school to inquire about. I did realize that Willow probably wouldn't do well off leash although I really think she could do it. The last day of our puppy kindergarten class they set up some puppy agility stuff and Willow was moving through tunnels, weaving through the weave polls, hopping up on baby picnic tables, she was having a blast. Once we got through basic, I realized that she was having the issues but I kept going to other classes hoping this behavior would improve. 
I do like the idea of doing some tracking exercises and seeing if she likes it. I might walk down to the library at lunch and pick up some books. The instructor of her Puppy Kindergarten is also the director of a local SAR group so if things are going well I can always contact her for training tips and/or some local clubs.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

that sounds great! i think tracking is the way to go until you get a better handle on the other.........i wouldn't rule out agility, you could get a few pieces of equipment to work on in your yard.....or alot of facilities will rent their agility yards out by the hour, so if you get a general idea on how to introduce the equipment and work it that might be an idea..........

keep us posted......


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

So a little status update: We met yesterday again with the private trainer. We met in the parking lot of a pet store but at a time with very low customer/dog traffic. Willow was a little nervous/tense even with no one around so we went out, let her relieve a little stress and went back in. Second time in she was much better. Next, we went back to the parking lot and brought out my trainers dog. This dog was a Golden that we had never met before. After starting at a distance, we worked our way to a dog/dog greeting. That went fairly well. Willow got tense when the dog smelled her but we ended on a positive so stopped there. 
Side note - Before we did the actual dog/dog greeting the trainer tried something else. She brought out a big stuffed dog and kind of kept it hidden and was actually talking to the stuffed dog like it was real and then we had Willow move towards it. Willow got all excited and when she got there and noticed it was a stuffie, she looked at the trainer and she swears that Willow laughed! She said Willow looked at her like "You fooled me!" It was a pretty funny moment. 

Next steps - new assignments are I am to take her out to different places 2-3 times a week and just get her more comfortable with new places. She gets kind of panty and whiny when she gets to new places so I am to just take her places and work on basic OB while we are out. We also need to work more on our dog/dog greetings so she isn't so tense with the other dog smelling her. I am in search of some dogs to participate in this exercise. There are a few in the neighborhood that might work.
Also, I did talk to her about possible Tracking groups and she has referred me to another trainer that does totally positive tracking with her Dobies so I am going to get in touch with her. So far, so good. I have noticed some great improvement over the past few weeks but still a ways to go.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

good for you and willow sounds like your making progress keep up the good work


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Love to hear you working on the issue and that it's progressing well! It's amazing how well many dogs do once they are on the right path.

You get a chance to PURCHASE and watch the DVD Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas? Tons of great information about dogs that I use every day! Turid Rugaas - Calming Signals Community


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

MRL - YES, the new trainer I have been working with is WONDERFUL and she has taught me SO much. On our first day she gave me a list of books to read and Calming Signals was on the list. After I read the book I checked the DVD out of the library to get an even better sense of the signals. I also purchased a big picture book on dog body language. I was amazed at how much I didn't know even though I have always had some sort of dog in my life.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Great news! i am glad you found a good trainer and are thinking about doing tracking....i think if you stay with these things you will start seeing some positive changes in your dog.......you will also build a great relationship working with your dog, besides building trust and confidence..........keep up the good work!


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

*Progress, I think*

So we have been working on the new training for a few months now and as we were out walking tonight I was thinking that we may have turned a corner and Willow is really getting it. Here is our evening experience:

About 1/4 mile in we made it into the ajoining subdivision with no dog encounters and then a small Min Pin came out of a cul de sac that I didn't see. It was at the end of its leash and started barking. Willow saw it before I did, we were across the street a a few feet in front of it but Willow did bark. It was more of an excited Woof Woof though, not anything major considering the MinPin was barking too. We continued on and came to the house with two dogs on electric fence. If they are out they come flying around the house barking. So as we are passing the house here come the dogs. Willow stayed with me, no barking at all. She kept looking back but I just kept saying let's go. Continuing on about 5 houses down and there is a dog out in someone's front yard tied to a tree. This dog was real nice and just sat there watching us so I actually used this dog for some training. I let Willow look at the dog, look back at me and I would click and give her some distance and give treat. We eventually walked on but Willow did GREAT with no barking or whining. Once we got past there we came upon the Min Pin again (neighborhood is a big circle). This time I saw it and was prepared. I let Willow look at the dog, look at me, etc. We moved back up someones driveway and Willow sat and got click/treat for watching me. No barking!!! YAY! Our last hurdle was about 4 houses from our home and again, there is a little Jack Russell on an electric fence. I know this house and dog so again, training opportunity. We are across the street from this house and as we are making our way toward this house another dog pops out from a house on the side of the street where we are. Willow sees it but she doesn't bark. She looks at me and we move back a bit. So we ended up walking down the middle of the road in between the JR and this little poodle. Willow did not bark at all but she did a little whining. I still thought this was a great success for her. She never would have made it in between two dogs without reacting a few months ago. We hit way more dog activity than we normally do on our walks and Willow did great. 
In addition to Look at That game, I am also trying BAT training. A friend uses this method with her GSD and let me borrow her DVDs. It is pretty interesting. I have also noticed a big difference in her since I started using a harness.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Thats great news! the more encounters you have without reaction the better........sounds like you are also learning to handle situations and gaining confidence, which is a huge part of this whole process.......along the way you might have some minor set backs, it happens, but you will learn from each situation and apply better skills the next time! yeah, for you guys!


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks!!!

I actually told my trainer during our last session that I put more time and effort into working with Willow than I did to get through college :wild:


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## lylol (Feb 18, 2009)

That is such a great story!!! You should be very proud of your girl and yourself! Great, great job together.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

It is alot of work! but when you start seeing progress, its all worth it! keep up the great work!


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## dogmama (Nov 17, 2006)

Great work! I had the same issues with my Zack and used the Control Unleashed methods (looks at dog, looks at me, gets treat.) I can't say enough about it. Now, dogs can lunge & bark at him & he looks up at me like, "Pay up!"

Keep up the good work! I always ended on a positive note and it sounds like you're doing the same.

Agility is pretty exciting. Lots of dogs that are excited (it's contagious!), running around OFF LEASH - I found it very difficult even with Control Unleashed methods. OTOH, we've been hanging around at Schutzhund class and the protection work doesn't rev him up. I think the difference is that in Schutzhund, there is control. In agility, lots of different breeds & people who may be there just to run their dog until they're wiped out.

I saw a DVM behaviorist who suggested tracking because it's quiet and it requires concentration. All good things for our excitable dogs. There is a thing called "Nose Dogs" where they find scents in boxes. I haven't seen it in the flesh (in the fur?) but it looks like a good thing for our guys.

Again, congratulations on all you hard work!!!


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

I have a couple of updates on Willow. First, we have our first tracking lesson tonight!! I am both nervous and excited. It is a private lesson just so I can talk to the trainer and she can give me the basics. 

Second: I am soooooo happy with Willow's progress in the past few weeks. Back when we first started with the private trainer (mid-February I think) the second that Willow spotted another dog or if she heard a dog bark behind a fence she would react and bark. Now she can walk by dogs barking *behind* fences and she can mostly ignore it. She can also walk by another dog sitting out in its yard and while she shows interest she doesn't really react and I can also get her attention back to me in an acceptable amount of time. 
A few things that have happened this week that really shows me she is improving: 1) we were out last night and a little cocker spaniel was in yard where I have never seen a dog before. We were on the sidewalk not 6 feet from the dog and Willow was great. She walked along watching the dog but didn't bark once and kept walking with me as the other dog followed along the fence line with us. 2) a few nights ago a little dog came running out of a garage, across the street and heading right towards us. Willow gave two barks but kept walking on with me. She did keep looking back at it, which was fine, but still kept up with me and eventually the owner caught her dog and took him away. 3) We do still have some work ahead on instances where we see dogs out on leash walking but last night a pit-mix was walking behind us but across the street. Willow again didn't bark at all but she got a little more excited than I would like but we just kept walking and eventually she was able to settle and walk. 

These are just a few examples. We have a lot of different type of dog activity in my neighborhood so in my opinion she is doing great. Now our biggest hurdles that we still need to work on are small dogs, dogs that she can see and they are barking at her and as I stated above, just seeing other dogs out on leash. You know those times when you walk around a corner and boom, there is another dog 15 feet in front of you. She still reacts in those instances. But her reactions now are more whiny/yippy, not full out deep barks.
I hope you all don't mind the long rambling updates but I am just so proud of the work we have both done. I have never done this type of training before so this is all new to me.


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## marlin (Jan 7, 2011)

Awesome job, you should be very proud!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

keep rambling! its always nice to share things with people who understand!


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## Bee (Jun 24, 2011)

I've enjoyed reading this, well done the both of you


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## cshepherd9 (Feb 11, 2010)

*The DREAM!!!!!*

I decided to take *both* dogs out tonight for a walk because, let's face it, it is hot and I didn't want to have to go out twice! Up til now I have avoided taking them both out in the evenings at the same time because every time Willow goes out I view it as a training opportunity for whatever comes our way. I can't work with her if I have another dog on the other side of me. I have taken them out together on the weekends very early in the morning though so this isn't the first time I have walked them together. 

So, as stated, it is hot so I waited until about 8:45 and decided I was going to stay just in my subdivision. There is very little dog activity so I was pretty sure we would be good. Anyway, it went very well.  It took them both a few houses down before they realized they couldn't drag me down the street. Once we got settled into the walk, we were doing great. Then we came upon another guy and his GSD. While Willow showed excitement and wanted to drag me over to the dog, she didn't bark or yip. Once we passed them we went right on back to our walk. That was the only time we passed a dog but just the fact that the walk went so well really excited me. It was hot so they slowed down a lot earlier than they normally would. We were rounding through the last cul de sac on our way home and at one point it looked like they were walking me on a leash. Willow was right behind me and Dallas was three paces behind both of us.  But I couldn't be happier with how this went. The dream is for me to be able to walk them together every night.


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