# Is Earthborn holistics a bad food



## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Thought it was good? Hearing now ash levels dangerously high. I feed the Great Plains. Any input?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I think their primitive natural has the highest ash % all of the formulas, but I'm pretty sure it's not "dangerously high". It's pretty comparable with a lot of the other chicken grain free formulas. The rest of their formulas aren't too bad from what I can remember.

Can you post these dangerously high %?


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Did some researching and the primitive formula is 12%. I think the others is 8%.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

12% is up there, but I wouldn't call it dangerously high. It's still fine to feed to an adult dog. 8% isn't too bad. The calcium % in the other formulas aren't too bad.

Why do you think this is a problem?


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Was reading high ash levels "can" cause kidney issues down the road. I sent earthborn an email anyways.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

If this is something that worries you, feed another food. There's tons of other lower ash options out there. A lot of companies won't publish or disclose their ash %, so it's hard to compare, but 8% really isn't high, let alone "dangerously high". I've also heard that high protein can cause kidney issues too, but until I see scientific proof of this, it's just internet hearsay. 

Feed what you feel comfortable feeding. There are plenty of people who feed earthborn with good results.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks, I'm going to stay on it they are doing really well.


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## AgilityAce (Sep 13, 2013)

The Earthborn foods are formulated to compete on price, not quality.

Yes the other Earthborn foods have lower ash but its because the company substitutes large amounts of vegetable protein for animal protein in the form of Pea Protein which is like concentrated soy and corn protein. Pea Protein just sounds better to consumers. Technically, Pea Protein is not even an approved ingredient.

In 2014, new limitations on calcium and phosphorous go into effect and foods like EVO, Earthborn Primitive, Nature's Logic and Nature's Variety, etc will either have to upgrade the ingredients used or change labels.

As for 12% ash being high? Since most people switch foods constantly, one or two bags wont hurt but you simply can't use this food for an extended period of time without risk.

Most companies wont publish Ash because that is the tip-off as to the quality of protein used.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

AgilityAce said:


> The Earthborn foods are formulated to compete on price, not quality.
> 
> Yes the other Earthborn foods have lower ash but its because the company substitutes large amounts of vegetable protein for animal protein in the form of Pea Protein which is like concentrated soy and corn protein. Pea Protein just sounds better to consumers. Technically, Pea Protein is not even an approved ingredient.
> 
> ...


Well now I'm not too comfortable feeding this after reading this. Not sure what to do? I'm halfway through this bag and will probably switch but not sure to what? It doesn't have to be grain free. I would like to stay away from chicken my dogs ears get all yuck from chicken. Any ideas?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

This is what I think I feed Evo my dogs do well on it we have tried other food they do not do well on them-well my one female does not-if she does not do well on Evo we will switch but until then its Evo-


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

I agree with the others. Earthborn is not the best choice. The varieties with a lot of meat have high ash. The varieties with low ash are loaded with peas and pea protein. 
It won't hurt to finish the bag.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I will have to start searching for something different. I tried innova once on puppies and they did ok. So maybe try the red meat one


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

AgilityAce said:


> In 2014, new limitations on calcium and phosphorous go into effect and foods like EVO, Earthborn Primitive, Nature's Logic and Nature's Variety, etc will either have to upgrade the ingredients used or change labels.


This is the first I'm hearing of this. Where did you get this info from?



AgilityAce said:


> As for 12% ash being high? Since most people switch foods constantly, one or two bags wont hurt but you simply can't use this food for an extended period of time without risk.


Risk of what for an adult dog?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I googled around this morning and could not find anything other than other forum talk and some information on ash content based on calcium, phosphorus, etc... Not much though.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> Risk of what for an adult dog?



Kidney damage.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Nigel said:


> Kidney damage.


What evidence is there that higher ash formulas are linked to kidney problems?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> What evidence is there that higher ash formulas are linked to kidney problems?


I haven't found any, but this is one the claims I came across this morning (dogfood chat), so far all I see was ash was studied as a possible cause for cat (and I guess some dogs) having crystals in their urine, that's about it.


Edit, it was ruled out as a cause for crystals.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

I just bought a bag of the Great Plains, where is ash mentioned on the bag? I can't find it. 


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

I feed the Great Plains as well. I googled the ash it's only about 7-8%. It's the primitive that's 12%.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

My5dogs said:


> I feed the Great Plains as well. I googled the ash it's only about 7-8%. It's the primitive that's 12%.


Where did you find it, can you post a link?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

several times i've emailed Earthborn asking do they use
exthoquin. several times i didn't get a reply.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Google earthborn holistics ash content. It's on the Labrador forum. I am going to call tomm and speak to someone. Will post here what they say.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

ask them about ethoxquin usage.



My5dogs said:


> Google earthborn holistics ash content. It's on the Labrador forum. I am going to call tomm and speak to someone. Will post here what they say.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

I sure will.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> ask them about ethoxquin usage.


They do not use ethoxyquin in their foods they use tocophorols (spelling) I googled it and it was on their Facebook page and a few other sites.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Questionable ingredients: Menadione and Ethoxyquin
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The safety of the next 2 controversial ingredients that I'll discuss have been highly debated: synthetic Vitamin K, also known as Menadione or Vitamin K3 and the preservative Ethoxyquin.

Menadione- what is it?

Vitamin K is an important vitamin because it contains clotting factors used to stop bleeding, but Vitamin K does not need to be manufactured synthetically; K1 is naturally found in leafy greens and K2 is produced by bacteria in the intestines. While the synthetic form has been present in animal feeds for many years, the lifespan of livestock is drastically less than our companion pets and there has not been any studies done regarding its safety for long-term use.

However, a study done by Oregon State University has determined that Menadione, as injected for its clotting properties, is dangerous and causes oxidative damage leading to anemia and liver toxicity; the FDA has banned the use of synthetic Vitamin K3 in supplements because of its inherent risks.

What is being done?

As an ingredient that is present in natural sources and that is not required by AAFCO to be included in pet food, it makes sense to ask manufacturers to remove it or not include it at all.
This is what has been asked of Earthborn, and Tuffy's products Natural Planet Organics and PureVita-and they responded quickly, removing the ingredient from all their formulations. You may still see Menadione on the Earthborn's label, but this is because new packaging is very expensive- instead of raising prices on the food to cover the cost of new packaging, they elected to continue to use the old packaging until it ran out. I can certainly agree with this decision; however it would be helpful if they, like Natural Planet Organics and PureVita, a package sticker was produced letting us know that Menadione has indeed been removed

Ethoxyquin- what is it?

I have also asked both Earthborn Holistics and Natural Balance about their fish meals and if they have been preserved with Ethoxyquin- another controversial ingredient that has made its way into pet foods. Ethoxyquin is a chemical that is used as a preservative, a pesticide, and a hardening agent for rubber. It has been used in animal feed for over 45 years, but there is debate regarding its safety and it has since been banned from addition in most human foods. While there haven’t been any official studies that have directly implicated the chemical as the cause of pet illness, the manufacturer of the chemical did conduct a study that showed its association with changes in liver pigment and elevated liver enzymes, of which “the health significance… is unknown” (FDA.gov).

What is being done?

Numerous owner reports associating Ethoxyquin with pet illness led to the FDA to lower the maximum allowed amount in pet food. Although officially circumstantial, there is enough implied evidence against its use that most number of high-quality pet food manufacturers have elected to preserve naturally instead, usually with Vitamin E.

However, there is another way Ethoxyquin can make it into pet food: indirectly added from the fish meal suppliers. When a pet food manufacturer directly uses Ethoxyquin as a preservative it must be included on the package label, and this adds the highest quantity of the chemical to the food. Chemical added from indirect sources (such as the fish meal supplier) is of a much smaller quantity, but is there nonetheless, and is not required to be on the label. Federal regulations require that fish meal be preserved before shipment to manufacturers, and for a while Ethoxyquin was used by the suppliers almost exclusively for this purpose.

But, there are now other non-chemical and more natural alternatives, such as the product Naturox. Fortunately, most pet food manufacturers have acquiesced to public concern about Ethoxyquin and requested their fish meal suppliers to use Naturox or another natural preservative, but this remains a work-in progress as manufacturers are still becoming aware of their natural options. I’ve asked both Earthborn Holistics and Natural Balance about the preservative used by their fish meal suppliers, and have been assured by Natural Balance that they require the use of Naturox. I’m pleased to report that Earthborn Holistics claims their fish meals are Ethoxyquin-free as well.


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## AgilityAce (Sep 13, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> several times i've emailed Earthborn asking do they use
> exthoquin. several times i didn't get a reply.


Technically, no pet food company uses ethoxyquin. It is used by suppliers.

So even if a company says "no" and its in the food, they are not lying.

Ask if they test for it and if so to send you the results.

This is another reason to buy EU Certified foods. EU rules don't allow for the use of ethoxyquin and when food is imported they test for it and GMO content.

Vitamin K3 safety is a non-issue. While not needed, it is very safe and better than the fat soluble, natural forms of Vitamin K. Just because something is injected in rats at 6,000 times the dose doesn't mean it is unsafe for dogs to eat. If people extended that logic, humans wouldn't eat grapes, raisins, onions or chocolate because they are toxic to dogs. 

Orijen contains Licorice, which is a documented toxin to both humans and dogs when eaten at a certain level. Vitamin K3 has been used for over 50 years without incident and doesn't accumulate in the dogs system.


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## kirsten (Jun 25, 2013)

Bumping

Does anyone know if the Primitive Nature formula was changed? I've read on here the calcium was min 2.4% but their website and the bag I just bought of it says min 1.5%. Hopefully that means the ash went down too?


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

The calcium and ash is highest in the primitive. I feed the meadow feast which is lowest in both. Is it a puppy you are feeding? If so I wouldn't feed the primitive. I would call them


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## kirsten (Jun 25, 2013)

Yes I would like to feed my 7.5 month old puppy it since it's slightly cheaper than Fromms (what I'm currently feeding) and have 5 mouths to feed. 

What age do you have to stop worrying about calcium levels?

The company replied with;
We did do a minor adjustment in the formula to bring the calcium down. The calcium 1.5% is correct. The ash level is 12%


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

kirsten said:


> Yes I would like to feed my 7.5 month old puppy it since it's slightly cheaper than Fromms (what I'm currently feeding) and have 5 mouths to feed.
> 
> What age do you have to stop worrying about calcium levels?
> 
> ...


Personally, I'd wait until about 18 months. You want to wait until those growth plates are closed.

And 12% ash is still pretty high.


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

I would wait as well. Why don't you feed the meadow feast or coastal catch? Those are fine for puppy


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## My5dogs (Aug 30, 2013)

Here is a list with calcium levels appropriate 
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit

The meadow feast is on there. Primitive is not.


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