# ddr vs czech



## exotica

anyone here experienced with both lines? which one have higher prey? defense?

A man that worked in shutzhund told me that zcech dogs are often not good for shutzhund and make better personal protection dogs because they are so civil is that true?


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## onyx'girl

This thread has some info on the differences:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/100503-czech-ddr-lines.html

IMO, I like a blend of lines not all DDR or Czech but a mix of WGerman/Czech or DDR/WG. But it comes down to the breeding match of course. I have a WG/Czech and he is a very balanced dog, perfect IMO!


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## exotica

i think mixed lines are probably best also 

do pure ddr dogs also come in black bi and sable?


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## kleinenHain

I have both DDR and a mix of DDR Czech. Max is mostly DDR but has some Czech and he is a true Black sable. Max also sires a lot of bi- color or black and reds and blacks depending on the female I breed him to.

If you look on my website you will see my dogs are mostly Sables. I have a full DDR girl coming that is a bi-color/or black and red.

Ike is full DDR and so far has sired blacks and dark sables


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## GSD07

exotica said:


> i think mixed lines are probably best also
> 
> do pure ddr dogs also come in black bi and sable?


Why? Mixing doesn't mean that the dogs inherit the best of each line, can be quite the opposite. A very experienced breeder is needed for sure.


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## exotica

are west german the same as dutch lines?


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## Emoore

exotica said:


> are west german the same as dutch lines?


Nope


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## JakodaCD OA

I posted in your other thread but here is Masi that I got from kleinenhain above
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/148780-its-beautiful-day.html

I will always have DDR 'somewhere' in my dogs, it's just my preference, tho they can be slow to mature. Masi is my second with czech /slovak thrown in, and tho she can have her quirks, I really enjoy this dog and love her to death She can be rather demanding and does take up alot of my time, but that isn't a complaint


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## wolfstraum

I prefer the term European for modern dogs - the DDR is long gone - some pedigrees/breeders today have striven to keep that "type" intact and their dogs go back within a few generation to DDR registration numbers. Much like Arabian horses - you can get "Crabbet" although the stud is long defunct, or "Egyptian" or "Polish" horses who have pedigrees of horses bred domestically for 4 generations! The DDR is a "type" as all the dogs in the former DDR are now registered with the SV!!


As far as "Holland" (Dutch or Netherlands), Belgium, Danish, or Austrian as opposed to "West German" - few kennels have not intermingled breedings with dogs of other countries.....my NSHB female (Netherlands registered) was sired by Pike Schafbachmuhle - a famous West German dog, my Belgian born female is from a West German born, SV registered female....the borders of these countries are close enough that people go back and forth easily....just like someone in NY will go to NJ or MD or MA to breed or compete....I drive regularly to MD from PA, and have driven to Canada and Ohio to breed - will use dogs in Kentucky, NY and Indiana for upcoming litters....same goes there......the most "famous" kennel in the Netherlands' breeding program features nearly incestous in-breeding to a couple well known SV dogs...

The Czech/Slovak dogs are another "type" driven by need for military dogs and the Iron Curtain - even these are in present times becoming more diverse in lines. A few months ago I imported a pup from the Czech Republic for a client.....from a well known breeder whose dogs here have been pretty successful. This pup - a "Czech" dog is actually by Zico Adelegg (West German Working lines) out of a female born in the CR - She is by ****** Mohnwiese (born in WGR from a Belgian born male) and Czech born female who also has WGR lines....so even though strictly speaking a "Czech" dog - this pup is a well considered blend of modern European lines.

The smaller the gene pool, the easier it was to "fix" characteristics and traits....however, many of these "types" are now too limited in available genetics and must be outcrossed to maintain balance of temperament and drives that meets the standard and needs of owners.

Lee


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## Gwyllgi

Old topic, the OP has not been seen since 2011.


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## wolfstraum

Old topic yes.....but given the turnover of readers looking to learn, I think still very relevant info....this question about DDR and Czech lines comes up regularly.....these old threads are a result of people telling new readers to research because the same questions are posted over and over!!!! Heck, I think I will copy and paste my response as I think I have posted this information a few times!

Lee


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## Squidwardp

We have a young solid black female from Czech-born parents. Interestingly enough, she came from Kleinen Hain, which posted above. 
We also have an 8 month old male pup, with some DDR lines represented. Lord Vom Gleisdreieck appears several generations back (5-6?); more recently, **** Vom Weltwitz; Sven Grafental. A pretty fair number of Sch III dogs in his lineage.

Two dogs is not really a broad sample, but here's my impressions, for what they are worth. The Czech line girl seems to take to Schutzhund, at least through a very early but steady, once to twice weekly training sessions. She was slow to do stimulative barking in rag work. But numerous females at the training site have seemed slower to bark than the males. She was always eager for the bite, with a deep, even bite and the decoys and the head of the club say she hits very hard. More civil? That's kind of an open book until it is really tested, and you hope it does not get tested. Sleeve work in the open seems to stimulate more prey drive. When trainers have put her in the "box" apparatus, she usually shows a deeper bark. At home, the female is much more apt to light up if she senses something going on in the street. She is a very athletic girl. I have only recently started her jumping. And she goes over the A-frame wall nicely and willingly. Until her first heat, she kind of had an "I'll ask forgiveness rather than permission" streak. Not unbiddable, but she did have her own ideas about things at times. Since her first heat, she is more biddable in obedience work, and at 15 months, she has a nice off-switch and good house manners. She is a very sweet tempered and demonstratively affectionate girl with family. 

The male with the DDR line (not pure DDR, which is by most accounts rare or just about non-existent depending on who you ask): He was introduced to Schutzhund earlier, and barked like crazy in ragwork, and bit deeply, evenly and firmly from the start. That said, other than his readiness to bark, and his larger size, I don't see a lot of difference between him and the female as to willingness to go after a rag or now, a sleeve. Civil? I think he is too young to say, and from what I've read and seen, a truly civil dog is fairly rare. When he bites something, even at 5-6 months, he has to out it voluntarily, otherwise, you aren't getting it away from him. But is he doing it more out of prey/play drive, than protection? I expect so. At home, he is a very sweet tempered boy, playful, to the point of making me his play-slave. My wife works him at Schutzhund. At just under nine months, he is almost as big as she is. I worry sometimes that he will get too big to do some of the jump work. But left to his own devices, he can and does jump impressively. 

I've had two-three dogs in maybe 47 years who I would bet pretty heavily that they would bite a person if it came to it. One was a mixed breed dog I had a s a kid, another was a 135 pound Newfoundland bitch, the other was a female working line shepherd with whom we did not do Schutzhund.


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## Fodder

wolfstraum said:


> Old topic yes.....but given the turnover of readers looking to learn, I think still very relevant info....this question about DDR and Czech lines comes up regularly.....*these old threads are a result of people telling new readers to research because the same questions are posted over and over!!!!* Heck, I think I will copy and paste my response as I think I have posted this information a few times!
> 
> Lee


it is a relevant topic - and relevant, general discussion topics are typically left open. the sudden influx in resurrected threads however has more to do with the search results not defaulting to _most recent_, and the recommended reading threads that are suggested at the bottom of each page.


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