# This is why you don't crop a GSD's ears!



## APBTLove

They look mean..









_*someone else did the photo editing for me_


I do like the look of a crop on breeds like J, though. But I would never crop a dog simply for looks.


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## selzer

Oh, that picture kills me, poor thing. A GSD's ears are like their special communicators. I love their expressive ears. I wish people who didn't know what they are doing would just stop, put the scissors down, and call their breeder.


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN

Goodness gracious me that looks awful....


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## Silvermoon

It hurts your eyes.....


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## elisabeth_00117

Someone in the elevator in my apartment building once "scolded" me for cropping Stark's ears.... lol.. he's got these huge bat ears.... ummmm.. lol.

J looks adorable "cropped" ears or not.


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## Freestep

Who in the &#*%@ crops GSD ears?!?


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## Tbarrios333

Is that J? What was wrong with his ears?


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## APBTLove

It's edited - I added that in fine print.

There was a topic on another forum where you can have someone either crop or 'uncrop' your dogs ears for the fun of it. 

I don't understand why anyone crops ears on a dog for LOOKS. It's idiotic.. Of any breed, unless it serves a working purpose, it's just not right IMO.


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## selzer

Ok, so it is photo-edited. Thanks for the clarification.


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## TechieDog

APBTLove said:


> It's edited - I added that in fine print.
> 
> There was a topic on another forum where you can have someone either crop or 'uncrop' your dogs ears for the fun of it.
> 
> I don't understand why anyone crops ears on a dog for LOOKS. It's idiotic.. Of any breed, unless it serves a working purpose, it's just not right IMO.


Doberman and Great Danes come to mind. I prefer those cropped. 
Looks pretty stupid on GSD.
APBT's? Can go either way.


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## Lucy Dog

Not really a fan of cropped ears on any breed. Seems kind of pointless if you ask me. 

As for on a GSD... no, that definitely does not look right. 

Nice editing job though... definitely looks realistic.


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## LaRen616

TechieDog said:


> Doberman and Great Danes come to mind. I prefer those cropped.


I completely agree!

I think the Doberman is the most beautiful of all the dog breeds (GSD's are a close 2nd) but I have seen Doberman's with uncropped ears and ick!


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## LARHAGE

Me too, I had a Doberman with beautiful sculpted ears, I took her to a Vet who specialized in Doberman ears, they just look so much more beautiful and elegant, it really enhances their beautiful set necks, without cropped ears ? No thanks, they look as common as a mutt.


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## APBTLove

I love the look of cropped ears on danes and doberman.. I like a good crop on American Bullies too.

But I just couldn't do that to an animal because I preferred the look.. if I think the dog is ugly without having it's body parts cut off, I need to get into another breed. 

I like Caucasian Ovcharka's with no ears, to me it makes them look more fierce, and I like it! But whenever I get my CO pup, his ears will stay natural unless the breeder does it without asking for a preference..


But I don't condemn anyone for doing it to their animals, as long as they get the proper aftercare and are sedated during the procedure.


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## TechieDog

APBTLove said:


> I love the look of cropped ears on danes and doberman.. I like a good crop on American Bullies too.
> 
> But I just couldn't do that to an animal because I preferred the look.. if I think the dog is ugly without having it's body parts cut off, I need to get into another breed.
> 
> I like Caucasian Ovcharka's with no ears, to me it makes them look more fierce, and I like it! But whenever I get my CO pup, his ears will stay natural unless the breeder does it without asking for a preference..
> 
> 
> But I don't condemn anyone for doing it to their animals, as long as they get the proper aftercare and are sedated during the procedure.


 
I don't know what a CO is! Post a pic!

I think its the way you look at it. It is more akin to humans piercing their ears then cutting off a body part. It is just skin and cartiledge.


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## asja

Ear cropping and tail docking are now banned in Europe. 

Here are some photos of natural dogs. Scroll down for photos. 
working-dog.eu - Dobermann


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## APBTLove

TechieDog said:


> I don't know what a CO is! Post a pic!
> 
> I think its the way you look at it. It is more akin to humans piercing their ears then cutting off a body part. It is just skin and cartiledge.


Courageous Caucasians Ovtcharka dogs


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## TechieDog

They look like teddy bears.


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## APBTLove

TechieDog said:


> They look like teddy bears.


They do, they are great working dogs, though. 

I plan on owning a CO and/or a Kurdish Kangal.

I just came across this video, of both breeds.. It gave me a chuckle, those two are having quite the discussion, and the 3rd is NOT helping matters.


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## WarrantsWifey

Holy Vocal Dogs!!! LOL!!!


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## KZoppa

I love COs! My aunt had one when i was younger. He lived to be about 12 before he got bone cancer and they had to put him to sleep. BIG dog but huge teddy bear... unless you werent a kid or part of the family. The entire 12 years she had him, never had anyone break in. A week after he was PTS, they were robbed. She's thinking about getting another one but wants to wait until their current Lab mix passes on. 

as far as cropping certain breeds, Danes and Dobies are breeds i prefer cropped ears on but other breeds dont look right IMO


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## aManicCookie

I think Dobermans and Danes look amazing with a really well done long show crop. It's really elegant.


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## EJQ

Whoa - thanks for telling us that this is a Photoshopper. Personally I like natural ears. Especially on a Great Dane. Years ago I knew a Dobie breeder that left ears and tails natural - stunning!


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## doggiedad

i thought i was a purist. i like the way that dog looks.


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## bianca

Ears can't be legally cropped here anymore or tails docked. I am used to Rotti's with no tails and I admit it took me a while to get used to seeing them with tails, but now I think they are beautiful!


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## PaddyD

Cool pic, cool editing.

Cropping ears is unnatural and unkind. They are left with the big, unprotected ear-hole that can pick up all kinds of contaminates. How unfair to the dog. I think if you asked the dog it would want its ears back.


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## Freestep

aManicCookie said:


> I think Dobermans and Danes look amazing with a really well done long show crop. It's really elegant.


I have to disagree--whenever I see Dobes and especially Danes in the show ring, those ears are flopping all over the place and the handler has to sort of hold them up when the dog stacks. I think it looks ridiculous.

I think most dogs look better with their natural ears, except for Dobes (as long as the crop isn't too long). Natural eared, they look like Coonhounds to me. Not very intimidating. 

A Schnauzer with a good crop looks really nice too, IMO, they look sort of "evil" with those eyebrows and cropped ears.  But they look good with natural ears as well. 

The one thing I do like on dogs are tails. The tail makes a convenient handle. I considered getting a Standard Schnauzer at one point, but I don't like the docked tail, and in order to get a Schnauzer with a natural tail you have to import from Europe. 

I hate it when I'm grooming a dog with no tail, it makes it really hard to clean up underneath when the dog has this little nubbin clamped down over his butt--almost impossible to get a hold of. And ears that are cropped too short are really hard to clean. I groom a pittie that has absolutely NO ears. They were cut completely off by some idiot.


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## Whiteshepherds

I don't think I'd ever buy a breed that needed body parts removed or altered to fit the standard. It seems cruel.


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## Good_Karma

Whiteshepherds said:


> I don't think I'd ever buy a breed that needed body parts removed or altered to fit the standard. It seems cruel.


Ditto


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## msvette2u

Freestep said:


> I think most dogs look better with their natural ears, except for Dobes (as long as the crop isn't too long). Natural eared, they look like Coonhounds to me. Not very intimidating.


I completely agree and since I wouldn't want a Dobe without a crop, I'll go with GSD with natural erect ears!
If I got a Dobe at all it could not be a puppy, I'd adopt an already-cropped dog.
The rest - I don't mind floppy ears at all. My parents had a cropped/docked Mini Schnauzer and he was handsome that way, but both their current Mini Schnauzers have natural ears and I like that too. 
The cropped dogs we've gotten in rescue all had really nice crops, amazingly enough, from a pit bull to a few Mini Schnauzers with crops.

But we've had some awful docks that were quite obviously home docks, including a Weim-length Doberman puppy tail and a too-short tail on another purebred Dobe puppy


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## ChristenHolden

When I was a baby we had a Dobe/blk and tan coonhound mix. Mom talks about how she would let me crawl all over her and her pups and that she was amazing her ears were natural. I only have one OLD pic of her. I would love to have a white male Dobe one day but I would want the ears croped. I like the way it looks.


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## ChristenHolden

Not for everyone but I think there strikingly beautiful.


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## guitarest

My daughters pup, Dia lays her ears a special way and it looks like devil horns. Hopefully she will see this thread and post a devil ear photo for this thread.


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## MustLoveGSDs

ChristenHolden said:


> Not for everyone but I think there strikingly beautiful.



An albino Doberman, or the crop?


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## ChristenHolden

Both. If a reputable breeder had a male pop up I'd love to have one. Been in love with them since I seen one in dog fancy :wub:


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## MustLoveGSDs

LOL interesting photo. A crop on a GSD definitely does not look right. I used to be disgusted by cropping and didn't fully understand it, but since I've owned a cropped breed I absolutely love the look of a well-done crop on certain breeds.

My boy has a show crop as he is from a show breeder. I love Prime's crop but I do agree that some show crops are ridiculously too long and there are a lot of bad crop jobs out there. Ethical breeders take care of the cropping so puppy buyers don't have to deal with it, it's easier on everyone since most puppy buyers are clueless about how to properly take care of a fresh crop.









Here he is next to a former foster of mine, a blue doberman with natural ears









I love how expressive his ears can be



























airplane mode









i sorry mode









Here is a crop and flop, show crop, and medium crop










I generally don't like breeds with beards but I LOVE the look of a cropped Giant Schnauzer.


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## MustLoveGSDs

ChristenHolden said:


> Both. If a reputable breeder had a male pop up I'd love to have one. Been in love with them since I seen one in dog fancy :wub:



Ethical breeders will never purposely breed a Z factored Doberman. Albinism is a genetic defect in the breed. It takes a lot of work to own one due to their health issues, they are sensitive to the sunlight. You can read more about it here: DPCA | The Doberman | Albino | What is albino

Albinos do pop up in rescue though so you could always save one's life!


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## sparra

I am surprised so many people here think ear cropping is OK. 
I can't stand it.....why you would want to do that to a dogs ears is beyond me but this is just my opinion. i am so thankful ear cropping along with tail docking has been banned here.


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## Germanshepherdlova

sparra said:


> I am surprised so many people here think ear cropping is OK.
> I can't stand it.....why you would want to do that to a dogs ears is beyond me but this is just my opinion. i am so thankful ear cropping along with tail docking has been banned here.









I wish they'd ban it over here as well.


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## LaRen616

IMO a Doberman is not a Doberman without cropped ears. I do not find the floppy ears attractive at all. 

Just like a Rottweiler with a tail is not a Rottweiler.


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## TechieDog

LaRen616 said:


> IMO a Doberman is not a Doberman without cropped ears. I do not find the floppy ears attractive at all.
> 
> Just like a Rottweiler with a tail is not a Rottweiler.


Agreed.


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## Alexandria610

LaRen616 said:


> I completely agree!
> 
> I think the Doberman is the most beautiful of all the dog breeds (GSD's are a close 2nd) but I have seen Doberman's with uncropped ears and ick!


Yeah, I like Dobbies regardless of the ear cropping or not, but I have to admit that uncropped ears on Dobes make them look a lot like hounds. The cropping, as mentioned by others, really shows of the elegant head and neck of the breed, and if cropped correctly really flows with the structure of the dog. I don't care for the 'pet crop' though. I love the show crop. My BIL's Doberman Pinscher that I'm caring for has the pet crop, and it's short and..just...icky looking on her. Of course, her head is abnormally bulky, so it may have been a combination of the smaller crop and the fact that he got someone that didn't do as nice a job. But I'm just a bigger fan of the show crop.


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## Alexandria610

I added a picture of Elsa to show the pet crop or medium crop as some describe it. Granted, she was a little heavy in this picture due to the other people my BIL left her with left her outside 24/7 and this was just after a cold winter. Also, she has a ton of little scars and scratches (and one of her ears bends a little funny) due to the other unspayed female Doberman that was left outside with her. Don't even get me started on that...that's how she came to me and got into my care - I couldn't let her stay where she was. 

How old do you think she is? 5? 7? No, she's just over 3 years old. So sad to see such a sweet and once-beautiful dog turn into something so beat up. She also has two busted up knees....ugh...but she's a lover! Anyway, here's the picture:










But back to the original image of the edited cropped GSD ears.......why oh why would anyone crop a dog's ears that are naturally erect? I mean, why would they in the first place to a GSD, let alone since it has naturally erect ears...


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## Caledon

I have to agree about the comments about a Doberman's ears and tails.


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## Holmeshx2

as hard as I try not to I have to jump on a bandwagon.. there are certain breeds that I just prefer a crop on sorry but I do. Now I do agree with letting a professional/good breeder care for the ears because they can be a pain to do properly and catch early signs of something going wrong. Now with that I don't agree with doing it (or a tail crop) after a certain age. Dobes I definitely prefer the show crop however on danes it can be touch and go. Some show crops go a little to long and pointed and they flop a lot I'm sorry I don't need 1 inch of thin antennas sitting on top of the ears but a dane with a good crop is beyond regal looking with natural ears they are like ever lasting puppies (and look a lot like lab mixes) same with dobes they have a gorgeous structure and natural ears just take away from it sorry but it does. The bully breeds I think both style look great on them so all for natural on them but do like the look on am staffs but would never go do it since they look great without. Quite honestly it's just the ears I don't view it much differently then people and cultures doing ear piercing ear tagging and whatever its called where they put the spacer thing to make a HUGE hole in their ear lobe. Yes they have a huge open area now like a GSD however floppy ears come at a price as well since water gets trapped and causes ear infections and some other stuff. Pros and cons but definitely would not want a government stepping in telling me it couldn't be done legally personally believe it would cause a rise in people doing it at home.

As far as the original picture I thought it was a joke and he just had his ears laid back in a funny way then saw everyone making yuck comments and felt bad for him lol... then realized it was photoshopped haha.


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## Germanshepherdlova

LaRen616 said:


> IMO *a Doberman is not a Doberman without cropped ears.* I do not find the floppy ears attractive at all.
> 
> Just like a Rottweiler with a tail is not a Rottweiler.


That is what many people believe, and I find it comical. A Doberman doesn't have cropped ears, that is the look that we humans have forced upon them. If it doesn't come natural (by birth) then it doesn't belong on them. A true doberman has uncropped ears! And we believe the opposite. If people don't like the floppy ears, then they don't like how the true/natural doberman looks.

*A rottweiler with a tail is a true rottweiler, one without a tail is cosmetically man-made.


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## LaRen616

Germanshepherdlova said:


> If people don't like the floppy ears, then they don't like how the true/natural doberman looks.


Then no, I do not like the look of a "true/natural" Doberman, I wouldn't own one of those long tailed, floppy eared dogs.


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## Alexandria610

Dogs that have cropped ears and docked tails are considered just that - to have cropped ears and docked tails. 

Dogs that do not have any alterations to the ears or tails are considered natural.

Neither trait makes them 'true' to the breed except their breeding. Putting breed standards of kennel clubs aside, both the 'natural' and 'altered' dogs are still true Doberman Pinschers/Rottweilers/Great Danes. They just physically look different. That doesn't mean the genetics aren't the same. It's like having a male of any breed neutered. Just because you take away a physical characteristic of him on the outside doesn't mean his DNA isn't the same or that he's no longer a 'true' dog of the breed.


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## LaRen616




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## Caledon

I've actually never seen a Doberman with a natural tail. Seen many with uncropped ears and a docked tail.

I've seen a rottie with a natural tail and in my opinion it looks ok. Same as poodles, although with a natural tails they do look like the doodles. I think poodles tails were docked, not because of looks, but because they are thin and could be easily broken when being used to retrieve. I think too other breeds of dogs the tails and the ears were done for practical purposes originally vs. looks. 

The Doberman's were cropped for looks to make them look more threatening when they were used as tax collection dogs.


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## smithie

Leave the dogs alone is my honest opinion. If they are born with them they are there for a reason. Dogs use their tails and ears to communicate, why on earth chop these tools off. It's like cutting off a humans hands and sewing shut their mouths


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## MustLoveGSDs

The funny thing about the animal activists comments regarding natural versus cropped is that a floppy "natural" ear is actually a man-made thing. Dogs in the wild have ears that stand up, it is not natural for a wolf to have floppy ears. Look what man has done to breeds like the Basset Hound in terms of floppy "natural" ears, sheeesh, poor dogs. Comments about dirt and debris being a problem in a cropped ear always give me a chuckle too. I've worked as a bather in the past and out of seeing thousands of breeds come through, the ones I've encountered with ear problems have been ones with all floppy ears(Goldens, labs, cocker spaniels, bassets, etc). Ive seen so many Goldens with chronic ear problems because that type of ear is a hot spot for bacteria to fester. In 6 years of working with dogs I havent yet seen a cropped dog with ear problems. When my Doberman goes swimming I never have to worry about drying and cleaning his ears 
afterward like I would need to if he was a golden. 


I do prefer the look of a cropped Doberman to a drop eared one. Louis Dobermann who created the Doberman was a tax collector and wanted an intimidating looking dog to accompany him on house calls due to the risky nature of his work, he would get guns pulled on him, and in his respect a Doberman with big, honkin, floppy ears and a curly tail doesn't quite give off that commanding, intimidating presence as a cropped and docked dobe.



As far as the government goes, I am glad to be living in America at this point. hopefully cropping and docking will never be banned here. The government already has their hands in people's business too much, it's crazy that some states and cities have even banned people from owning a certain breed of dog! I believe in a person's right to a choice. Just like with the controversial abortion issue, for pro-choicers the logic is the same...pro crop and dock does not necessarily mean someone is all for personally doing that to a dog, just means they respect peoples right to choose. Taking away freedom of choice is not a 
good thing. 

A lot of people don't understand cropping and docking and seriously in their radical minds think it hurts the animal. If you have a circumsized son or husband go ask him if he remembers that process or of he misses any part of him. And unlike circumcision, a puppy getting a crop is under anesthesia. Actually I think it's ironic that a lot of people who are against cropping and docking.."mutilating" a dog in their eyes, have no problem circumsizing their sons.


Everyone has a right to an opinion, that's fine, but like with the heat about pit bulls and some people wanting to ban them as a whole, I wish the anti crop and dock extremists would not try to push their views and opinions down others throats and try to get someone's freedom of choice eradicated when it comes to their pets.


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## Alexandria610

Caledon said:


> I think poodles tails were docked, not because of looks, but because they are thin and could be easily broken when being used to retrieve. I think too other breeds of dogs the tails and the ears were done for practical purposes originally vs. looks.


 
That is why the majority, if not all of the dogs, that have their tails docked have them docked. Even Cocker Spaniels as well as other hunting dogs have their tails docked due to this. In fact, Doberman Pinschers have an extremely high risk of tail damage because of the hammer tail syndrome and the fact that their tail is not as strong as some other dogs that have long tails. Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers, Cocker Spaniels, certain hounds and other breed owners are often more inclined to dock the tail, not simply because of breed standard, but because of the health risks. 

Of course, most of these dogs aren't used for their original purpose, and thus most people do not see the need for a 'pet' to have a docked tail, but in my opinion (on those that do have tails docked for health reasons) I find that a docked tail can be a good preventative to any future tail injuries. When I had planned on getting a Doberman Pinscher, I hadn't planned on cropping the ears, but definitely wanted the tail docked. I love tails, but after reading up on all sorts of cases where the dog has had to have the tail amputated due to severe injuries from just wagging it into a hard surface, I didn't look back.

That's not to say, however, that all dogs that keep natural tails (within these breeds) will have injuries - no. It's just to say that there is a higher instance of this happening.

EDIT: Oh, and I have had a ton of people try to rebute this when it comes to Greyhounds. Greys are notorious for having the hammer tail issue, and damaging their long, thin tails. This is a breed that (although having that tail, there can be some risks that the others with weaker tails have) has a vital need for its tail. Understandably, all dogs use their tails to communicate, but Greyhounds and other sighthounds use these long tails as rudders (just as cheetahs do) and have a harder time maneuvering when running at top speed if the tail is removed or shortened.


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## MustLoveGSDs

smithie said:


> Leave the dogs alone is my honest opinion. If they are born with them they are there for a reason. Dogs use their tails and ears to communicate, why on earth chop these tools off. It's like cutting off a humans hands and sewing shut their mouths


It's actually not like that at all. Have you spent any time around cropped/docked dogs? I assure you they are very communicative and expressive with their ears and nubs


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## Alexandria610

And I have to go back to someone that mentioned it's like piercing your ear.

When I hear people (not necessarily referring to anyone here, just others that have argued with me about it in the past) say that God made the dog the way it is, I have to stop and ask them questions. "God made the wolf the way it was. Didn't man manipulate genetics and breeding to get the dogs in all the various styles, colorations, hair lengths, and physical differences that they wanted for various purposes? And if that's true, wouldn't any alterations to your body like hair coloring, hair cuts, tattoos, piercings, and things such as circumcisions be against that way of thinking?"

I'm not trying to shun those that believe cropping/docking is wrong - I can see your point of view. But I don't like when people try to say that it's wrong because God made the animals that way, so we shouldn't change them. It angers me.


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## MustLoveGSDs

Alexandria, Elsa is a beautiful dobe and I hate to hear of her past. A Doberman is not a breed that should live outside due to their susceptible short coat, and the fact that they are total Velcro dogs. They are happiest right beside their owner because that is what they were bred for as a personal protection dog. They should never be left outside to guard property or whatever. I just rescued an 8 year old fawn Doberman that was living outside. The owner's husband refused to let her stay inside and the reason he wanted to get rid of her was because she kept crying at their back door to come inside and he didn't like that. Ugh 


A pet crop looks good on some dobermans, it really depends on the shape of the head, but too short of a crop like the military cut is way too short to accentuate a nice, long Dober nose.


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## MustLoveGSDs

I prefer floppy ears over a bad crop any day.


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## Alexandria610

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Alexandria, Elsa is a beautiful dobe and I hate to hear of her past. A Doberman is not a breed that should live outside due to their susceptible short coat, and the fact that they are total Velcro dogs. They are happiest right beside their owner because that is what they were bred for as a personal protection dog. They should never be left outside to guard property or whatever. I just rescued an 8 year old fawn Doberman that was living outside. The owner's husband refused to let her stay inside and the reason he wanted to get rid of her was because she kept crying at their back door to come inside and he didn't like that. Ugh
> 
> 
> A pet crop looks good on some dobermans, it really depends on the shape of the head, but too short of a crop like the military cut is way too short to accentuate a nice, long Dober nose.


Thanks - she's looking a lot healthier and DEFINITELY a lot happier now that she's a strictly inside dog and loved on. Plus, she doesn't have another dog that tries to fight her all the time - she's best friends with my ChiChi  When I found out that they were leaving her outside, I was really angry. It's different for other breeds with thicker coats, but like you said about the short coat (as well as the normal lack of fat compared to other dogs) they are VERY susceptible to both the heat and cold. Living in Florida can get you both extremes (although the cold, not as much) and I would hate to see any dog like her out there regardless. She's a TOTAL velcro dog - perfectly fits that aspect of the standard. My friend has a Greyhound that his dad wanted to keep outside, but luckily after persuasion and education we made him realize those are dogs that you just can't put outside, regardless of their size.

Anyway, I should start a little thread about her in the chat room area. She's had a long road in almost a year (I rescued her from them in December 2010) and I can't wait to have her celebrate Christmas with us  She's still a great alert/guard dog, but she's no longer a yard guard dog. I think my Chihuahua likes to be outside more than her, haha!


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## Alexandria610

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I prefer floppy ears over a bad crop any day.


Agreed. I've seen WAY too many pits with bad crops. Some I've seen are good, but man...some are painful. And it's weird - I seem to prefer Boxers and Danes with natural ears than cropped, but LOVE Dobbies with cropped ears. Ha! Just depends on the breed for me 

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on the pet crop - I have seen it done on dogs nicely, but was biased since Elsa's head is so blocky and large. She's REALLY big for a female - my BIL never expected her to get that big. I don't have the specifics on the parents (his parents still have the paperwork, pedigree, and AKC things on her) but from what I hear they weren't all THAT big. They were decently standard-size. She's just huge (which leads me to believe that is partly the reason she has such bad knee issues).


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## Germanshepherdlova

LaRen616 said:


> Look how beautiful the dobbie is in it's natural state.
> 
> Thanks for the picture!


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## MustLoveGSDs

Alexandria610 said:


> Thanks - she's looking a lot healthier and DEFINITELY a lot happier now that she's a strictly inside dog and loved on. Plus, she doesn't have another dog that tries to fight her all the time - she's best friends with my ChiChi  When I found out that they were leaving her outside, I was really angry. It's different for other breeds with thicker coats, but like you said about the short coat (as well as the normal lack of fat compared to other dogs) they are VERY susceptible to both the heat and cold. Living in Florida can get you both extremes (although the cold, not as much) and I would hate to see any dog like her out there regardless. She's a TOTAL velcro dog - perfectly fits that aspect of the standard. My friend has a Greyhound that his dad wanted to keep outside, but luckily after persuasion and education we made him realize those are dogs that you just can't put outside, regardless of their size.
> 
> Anyway, I should start a little thread about her in the chat room area. She's had a long road in almost a year (I rescued her from them in December 2010) and I can't wait to have her celebrate Christmas with us  She's still a great alert/guard dog, but she's no longer a yard guard dog. I think my Chihuahua likes to be outside more than her, haha!


You should! I sent you a PM too. Thank you for helping out the dogs


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## MustLoveGSDs

Alexandria610 said:


> Agreed. I've seen WAY too many pits with bad crops. Some I've seen are good, but man...some are painful. And it's weird - I seem to prefer Boxers and Danes with natural ears than cropped, but LOVE Dobbies with cropped ears. Ha! Just depends on the breed for me
> 
> Oh, and thanks for the heads up on the pet crop - I have seen it done on dogs nicely, but was biased since Elsa's head is so blocky and large. She's REALLY big for a female - my BIL never expected her to get that big. I don't have the specifics on the parents (his parents still have the paperwork, pedigree, and AKC things on her) but from what I hear they weren't all THAT big. They were decently standard-size. She's just huge (which leads me to believe that is partly the reason she has such bad knee issues).



I hate seeing the "battle" crops on pit bulls where they barely have any ear left.

Like the GSD, dobermans by standard are a medium sized working breed. _Dogs_ 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27½ inches; _Bitches_ 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25½ inches. But so many people think bigger is better and have this idea in their head that breeds like a doberman and GSD are supposed to be gigantic. I've seen 30" tall dobermans and it just looks really bad, freakish. If people want a great dane sized dog then they need to get a great dane.I've seen so many poorly bred dobermans over the years in rescue, it is really unnerving when you are passionate about a breed and especially the ethics, integrity, and preservation of the breed. My boy is 27 1/2" and 80 pounds, a lot of people think he is really small but he is actually perfect by standard! And don't get me started on "warlock" or "gladiator" dobermans...


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## Alexandria610

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I hate seeing the "battle" crops on pit bulls where they barely have any ear left.
> 
> Like the GSD, dobermans by standard are a medium sized working breed. _Dogs_ 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27½ inches; _Bitches_ 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25½ inches. But so many people think bigger is better and have this idea in their head that breeds like a doberman and GSD are supposed to be gigantic. I've seen 30" tall dobermans and it just looks really bad, freakish. If people want a great dane sized dog then they need to get a great dane.I've seen so many poorly bred dobermans over the years in rescue, it is really unnerving when you are passionate about a breed and especially the ethics, integrity, and preservation of the breed. My boy is 27 1/2" and 80 pounds, a lot of people think he is really small but he is actually perfect by standard! And don't get me started on "warlock" or "gladiator" dobermans...


Elsa's about 27in at the shoulder, and about 88lbs. She was almost 95lbs when I rescued her - made me so mad.

And yeah...the guy that was 'taking care' of Elsa? His female is a good sized Doberman, but he was mad because she was advertised as a warlock (he apparently wanted a mastiff in Doberman's clothing) and ended up being the standard size. That guy..ugh. He makes me angry. And he wants to BREED his Doberman! She's pretty, but she's got the WORST tempermant...wow - I've pushed this thread off track, haha.


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## LARHAGE

LaRen616 said:


>


 


If the top dog was the only way you could own a Doberman, I wouldn't own one, no comparison, the one on the bottom is beautiful and elegant, the one on the top a common looking mutt...JMHO


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## LARHAGE

smithie said:


> Leave the dogs alone is my honest opinion. If they are born with them they are there for a reason. Dogs use their tails and ears to communicate, why on earth chop these tools off. It's like cutting off a humans hands and sewing shut their mouths


 
They are born with testacles and uteruses as well.


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## MustLoveGSDs

LARHAGE said:


> They are born with testacles and uteruses as well.



Thank you


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## LaRen616

LARHAGE said:


> If the top dog was the only way you could own a Doberman, I wouldn't own one, no comparison, the one on the bottom is beautiful and elegant, the one on the top a common looking mutt...JMHO


I agree 100%.


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## ShenzisMom

Yet the dog on top has a nicer topline, better length of neck, better forechest and nicer tail set. Show me a Bruda or Old Drum doberman and I'd say that they look equally like dobermans. 

It is unfortunate that some people cannot get past looks, or believe that others should not be able to do as they wish within reason and cropping and docking is very reasonable.


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## Cassidy's Mom

This thread is from June! It got bumped by a spammer last night (post has since been removed).


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## Germanshepherdlova

LARHAGE said:


> *If the top dog was the only way you could own a Doberman, I wouldn't own one,* no comparison, the one on the bottom is beautiful and elegant, the one on the top *a common looking mutt..*.JMHO


So the natural doberman is a common looking mutt in your opinion, even though it is the truly authentic one.


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## LaRen616

My friend's male Doberman, not the best picture and he is around 7-9 months in this picture but IMO his ears and tail are perfect. :wub:


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## ChristenHolden

Yes I've read about the Z factor, operation white out and probably jus about everyother anti white dobe site. I've also been able to locate people with white dobes (not breeders) and quite a few say they are jus like any other dobe health wise. And yes do have the health issues the anti whies say about them. So I figure its about 50/50 good and bad. Been reading about the whites since before I even went to high school. Never contacted any breeders tho. Jus drooled over the pics and admired then from afar. Still would love a male. I wold name him Cena. But doubt ill ever be able to find one.  







MustLoveGSDs said:


> Ethical breeders will never purposely breed a Z factored Doberman. Albinism is a genetic defect in the breed. It takes a lot of work to own one due to their health issues, they are sensitive to the sunlight. You can read more about it here: DPCA | The Doberman | Albino | What is albino
> 
> Albinos do pop up in rescue though so you could always save one's life!


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## Powell

I met a guy at a fair that had 2 blue and white Pitts. Unaltered tails and ears. The ears stood UP! The tails were lethal when got close to them while petting them. 
People were still afraid of them.


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## LARHAGE

Germanshepherdlova said:


> So the natural doberman is a common looking mutt in your opinion, even though it is the truly authentic one.
> View attachment 12154


 
They are both Dobermans, authentic is your opinion, the creator of the breed cropped their ears and cut their tails, that was his vision for the breed, and yes, the "Natural" Doberman looks like a common mutt, just like I prefer man made breeds of horses like Arabians and Saddlebreds over "natural" plain, big headed Mustangs. I like and appreciate Beauty and refinement, call me weird.


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## sparra

LaRen616 said:


> IMO a Doberman is not a Doberman without cropped ears. I do not find the floppy ears attractive at all.
> 
> Just like a Rottweiler with a tail is not a Rottweiler.


So what about a GSD whose ears fail to stand erect?? Is this too in your opinion not a GSD simply because it doesn't look the part??


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## Magnolia

My Great Dane does not have cropped ears and she's beautiful.


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## DharmasMom

There is a 10 month old dobe at our dog bark whose ears are not cropped. He looks like Jar Jar Binks with his big floppy ears. He is the cutest dang thing I have ever seen. I <3 him. His owners thing ear cropping his cruel and will not get his cropped. Considering he looks so freaking cute with his big ears flopping in the wind, I have to agree with them on leaving them alone.


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## dogfaeries

I've worked with the local Dobe rescue for well over 10 years, and it is MUCH harder to place an uncropped dog than a cropped one. Everyone wants to adopt a one year old black cropped female...


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## guitarest

I thought the thread was about GSD's and a photoshopped picture. But I will chime in about the alteration of certain breeds; I agree it looks great on some breeds if done properly. Many ******* breeders in this area do it to Pits and they hack the puppies ears and cut the tails way too short. This is wrong, and those people should have their ears cropped. If a Dobbie is done by a individual who has years of expirence it adds something to the breed. I love the way a properly cropped Dobbie looks like Anubus...


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## Germanshepherdlova

LARHAGE said:


> They are both Dobermans, authentic is your opinion, the creator of the breed cropped their ears and cut their tails, that was his vision for the breed, and yes, the "Natural" Doberman looks like a common mutt, just like I prefer man made breeds of horses like Arabians and Saddlebreds over "natural" plain, big headed Mustangs. I like and appreciate Beauty and refinement, call me weird.


And so then we should all go out and have plastic surgery too then, and make ourselves into the image that Hollywood projects that we should be-is that your line of thinking? I personally find beauty in what comes naturally. To me, anything unnatural is FAKE. Yes, the dobbie is real, but if he has cropped ears, they are cosmetically altered and fake looking. You have the right to like cropped ears, if you live in the US, it's not illegal…..yet.


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## Germanshepherdlova

*Ear cropping nightmares.*

A little story, there was this dumb girl who decided to crop her dogs ears herself, so she just grabbed scissors and snipped away on the poor puppy's ears. Then the pup starts to bleed profusely and she runs him to the vets office, and says-I saw a dog with cropped ears and I wanted to make him look like that. I know that most people have sense and take their dog to a professional to have these things done, where hopefully they are numbed up for the procedure. But it is idiots like this girl who truly make me wish that it was just illegal all together, that way there would be stiffer penalties for people like this girl. 

These things happen more than you may realize. My sister owns 2 dobermans, they are rescue dogs. One of them has his ears cropped, what you guys here would refer to as beautifully. The other one has a butcher job done to his ears by someone who had no clue what they are doing. 

Too bad, people have created this idea that cropped ears are great-now there are idiots trying to crop their dogs ears and they have no idea what they are doing. I have even been hearing about people wrapping tight rubber bands around their dogs tail until it falls off. Some dogs develop bad infections because of that. SMH


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## LARHAGE

So all the Doberman and Great Dane and other cropped ear breeder and fanciers should have their rights taken away because of a small minority of morons? The facts are you can't prevent stupidity, someone who would crop their own dogs ears with scissors is just as likely to castrate their dog with pliers. I completely accept that there are people that don't like cropping, I understand that, but just because THEY don't , doesn't mean it should be outlawed, I had a Doberman and had her ears cropped, she was 12 weeks old went to a Vet that specialized in Dobermans, I drove far to have him do the surgery. I had no problems what so ever, my puppy never missed a beat and never showed any pain or suffering, I love Dobies, and if I ever get another one I will crop their ears as well. I do not see it as a barbaric cruel practice any more than spaying or neutering are.


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## LARHAGE

Germanshepherdlova said:


> And so then we should all go out and have plastic surgery too then, and make ourselves into the image that Hollywood projects that we should be-is that your line of thinking? I personally find beauty in what comes naturally. To me, anything unnatural is FAKE. Yes, the dobbie is real, but if he has cropped ears, they are cosmetically altered and fake looking. You have the right to like cropped ears, if you live in the US, it's not illegal…..yet.




Do you wear make-up and shave? Or is the Neanderthal look more to your liking? Or perhaps the caveman look?


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## sparra

Anyway.....thought I would share this with you for what its worth.
I was talking to a Dobe breeder here in Oz about the ban and he was saying a lot of breeders just stopped breeding them when the tail docking ban came in as well. He was disappointed with the ban but still wanted to breed them as he loves the breed for more than just ear cropping and tail docking. 
He said one positive thing he had seen is that it had sorted a lot of people out in terms of why they wanted a Dobe in the first place. 
He sees less people looking for one purely for the status and more people wanting one because they want more than just what the dog looks like so I guess that could be a positive thing for the breed.


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## guitarest

LARHAGE said:


> Do you wear make-up and shave? Or is the Neanderthal look more to your liking? Or perhaps the caveman look?


I enjoy not shaving unless something important is happening then I will shave. Although shaving is not permanent its something that allows hair to be removed not flesh, so how is this compared to cropping?


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## Germanshepherdlova

LARHAGE said:


> Do you wear make-up and shave? Or is the Neanderthal look more to your liking? Or perhaps the caveman look?


Sure and I shower, and bathe my dogs what does that have to do with completely transforming something in an irreversible manner? This conversation is pointless, one day it will be illegal to cut off part of a dog's ears or cut off it's tail with the only reason being-Oh, I don't like how he looks the way he's born, he doesn't look like the doberman that he is until I cut him up and make him into what I want him to look like, until the day that better laws are established to protect these dogs…….


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## LaRen616

My friend has always had a Doberman in her life, she grew up with 2 Dobermans and now she has 2 Dobies of her own, she loves the breed and will always have one but when I asked her if she would own one without cropped ears and a docked tail she told me "No, I wouldn't because to me that is not a Doberman".


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## bianca

I'm originally from NZ where to my knowledge docking is still allowed but not cropping. Here is Australia both are banned and I will admit to thinking Rotti's especially looked strange with tails. But after more than 3 years here I don't think twice about it now. I guess my point is that I *think* it comes down to what you are used to seeing. 

Also I could count on one hand the number of Dobies I have seen in 3+ years - just not common.


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## sparra

LaRen616 said:


> My friend has always had a Doberman in her life, she grew up with 2 Dobermans and now she has 2 Dobies of her own, she loves the breed and will always have one but when I asked her if she would own one without cropped ears and a docked tail she told me "No, I wouldn't because to me that is not a Doberman".


And that to me is just plain sad


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## codmaster

If cropping and docking should be illegal, what about spaying an neutering? Also unnatural. 

And of course, much more traumatic to the dog, I would think!


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## MustLoveGSDs

codmaster said:


> If cropping and docking should be illegal, what about spaying an neutering? Also unnatural.
> 
> And of course, much more traumatic to the dog, I would think!


It is a MUCH more invasive procedure than cropping/docking.


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## sparra

Yes...but done for far more important reasons than just cosmetic ones.


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## MustLoveGSDs

sparra said:


> Yes


Thank you.


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## codmaster

sparra said:


> Yes...but done for far more important reasons than just cosmetic ones.


 
Like what?

There are of course a few cases of medical necessity (I had a bitch with one); but other than that it is a simple reason that owners just don't want to be bothered with the hassle of heats, etc. A responsible owner will not have any "oops" litters either. Maybe a real rare case but very very rarely.

So not cosmetic but just convenience! BIG difference!


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## sparra

I absolutely see your point and you are right but one has only to see the number of dogs in shelters to see that desexing is required in many situations.
Look.....I have no where said that I think ear cropping and tail docking is "mutilation" ......it isn't and i agree that a puppy who has had his ears cropped would experience less pain after than a puppy who has been castrated. I don't think it is cruel and I have not said in any of my posts that it is, I just don't understand it and would never do it simply to change the way a dog looks. I can't think of any horse breeds in the world that are surgically altered after birth to fit a breed standard and I may be wrong but I can't think of any other species where this happens (maybe in cats but i can't think of any) We do dock the tails of our lambs here on our farm but purely for health reasons....if we don't they die from fly strike.
I am not saying it is cruel or mutilation just that it is IMO completely unnecessary and I am allowed to have my opinion.


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## Germanshepherdlova

laren616 said:


> my friend has always had a doberman in her life, she grew up with 2 dobermans and now she has 2 dobies of her own, she loves the breed and will always have one but when i asked her if she would own one without cropped ears and a docked tail she told me "no, i wouldn't because to me that is not a doberman".













sparra said:


> and that to me is just plain sad


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## MustLoveGSDs

sparra said:


> I absolutely see your point and you are right but one has only to see the number of dogs in shelters to see that desexing is required in many situations.
> Look.....I have no where said that I think ear cropping and tail docking is "mutilation" ......it isn't and i agree that a puppy who has had his ears cropped would experience less pain after than a puppy who has been castrated. I don't think it is cruel and I have not said in any of my posts that it is, I just don't understand it and would never do it simply to change the way a dog looks. I can't think of any horse breeds in the world that are surgically altered after birth to fit a breed standard and I may be wrong but I can't think of any other species where this happens (maybe in cats but i can't think of any) We do dock the tails of our lambs here on our farm but purely for health reasons....if we don't they die from fly strike.
> I am not saying it is cruel or mutilation just that it is IMO completely unnecessary and I am allowed to have my opinion.



I definitely do understand where you are coming from in regards to overpopulation since I volunteer with dog rescue. I hope this thread can remian civil, cropping/docking is such a controversial, heated issue with passionate feelings on both sides. There are good points on both sides and everyone has a right to an opinion!


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## MustLoveGSDs

Germanshepherdlova said:


> View attachment 12206
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 12205



I agree to with you on that one, gsdlova.

I love uncropped dobermans just as I love cropped dobies. I have rescued many floppy-eared dobies and they deserve love too! As far as personal preference goes, I prefer to own a cropped Doberman. As far as the breed as a whole goes, I would never write off the entire breed if I could not own a cropped one. 

The first Doberman I fostered had uncropped ears. He was the product of a BYB, way out of standard, horrible dock, but I really adored him and almost adopted him:









Floppy ears unite! with his red headed friend


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## Germanshepherdlova

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I agree to with you on that one, gsdlova.
> 
> I love uncropped dobermans just as I love cropped dobies. I have rescued many floppy-eared dobies and they deserve love too! As far as personal preference goes, I prefer to own a cropped Doberman. As far as the breed as a whole goes, I would never write off the entire breed if I could not own a cropped one.


Thank you for being a real Doberman lover, regardless of cropping or not.
My sister owns Doberman's as I mentioned in a previous comment. One dog has his ears cropped properly, the others are a disaster from a cropping gone wrong (they are both rescues) she loves both of her dogs. I don't think a person's love for a breed should be dependent upon cropped or uncropped ears. That is like saying, I will only love my GSD if his ears stand up properly-if they stay floppy, then he's not a GSD, to me that is ridiculous.


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## sparra

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I definitely do understand where you are coming from in regards to overpopulation since I volunteer with dog rescue. I hope this thread can remian civil, cropping/docking is such a controversial, heated issue with passionate feelings on both sides. There are good points on both sides and everyone has a right to an opinion!


Absolutely......nothing wrong with "agree to disagree" 
I love that last photo you posted....what a face!!!
Un-cropped ears definitely make the dog look "less mean" but I don't know that that is such a bad thing.


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## Germanshepherdlova

MustLoveGSDs said:


>


Beautiful!


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## MustLoveGSDs

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Beautiful!


She definitely does NOT look like a hound!:


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## MustLoveGSDs

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Thank you for being a real Doberman lover, regardless of cropping or not.
> My sister owns Doberman's as I mentioned in a previous comment. One dog has his ears cropped properly, the others are a disaster from a cropping gone wrong (they are both rescues) she loves both of her dogs. *I don't think a person's love for a breed should be dependent upon cropped or uncropped ears.* That is like saying, I will only love my GSD if his ears stand up properly-if they stay floppy, then he's not a GSD, to me that is ridiculous.


This.


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## Germanshepherdlova

MustLoveGSDs said:


>





MustLoveGSDs said:


> She definitely does NOT look like a hound!:


Of course not, because she is a 100% Doberman-with nothing cut off of her.


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## MustLoveGSDs

sparra said:


> Absolutely......nothing wrong with "agree to disagree"
> I love that last photo you posted....what a face!!!
> Un-cropped ears definitely make the dog look "less mean" but I don't know that that is such a bad thing.



Part of the reason why I did choose to own a Doberman Pinscher was due to their intimidating presence with the cropped ears and docked tail. If I wanted a silly, friendly looking floppy eared dog I would have gone with a Golden. I am a small woman and kind of a loner, I like to do things and go places by myself so I do like feeling more secure with my Dobe by my side, I take him everywhere with me and he has scared off sketchy men who have tried to approach me on more than one occasion. Floppy ears do make them look more approachable, but I will tell you that with that black and rust un-cropped Dobe I was fostering, people still knew what kind of dog he was and still kept their distance  One person was convinced he was an emaciated rottweiler though, LOL!

There are so many different breeds out there and people are attracted to them for different reasons. Cosmetics do play a part in it but it shouldn't make or break a decision to own a breed you love.


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## codmaster

Looks like a GSD with ears that didn't make it "Up" looks. 

Different, but still very attractive!


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## MustLoveGSDs

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Of course not, because she is a 100% Doberman-with nothing cut off of her.



Well, she does have a docked tail. I have grown to love the "tick tock" of the nub during play....
this is my boy and he is super goofy


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## Germanshepherdlova

MustLoveGSDs said:


> Well, she does have a docked tail. I have grown to love the "tick tock" of the nub during play....
> this is my boy and he is super goofy
> 
> Optimus meets Megatron - YouTube









Guess I spoke too soon.lol


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## MustLoveGSDs

LOL, nice smiley..hahah

and hey, i wasn't frontin'! You can see her nub in one of the photos of her with my foster!


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## Germanshepherdlova

MustLoveGSDs said:


> LOL, nice smiley..hahah
> 
> and hey, i wasn't frontin'! You can see her nub in one of the photos of her with my foster!


Thanks, I know you weren't. I just said that to save face because I had been completely convinced that she (the dobbie) wasn't snipped in anyway when I saw that she had her cute ears (can I say intact?) in the first picture you posted of her.


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