# Pure rare coat GSD w/ signature markings like from the TV show The Littlest Hobo



## Winnal

1-year old AKC registered purebred GSD with rare coat and famous signature marking like from the TV show The Littlest Hobo.


----------



## kimbale

Can you prove this dog is pure? You have another post where you're asking for input on whether other people think your dog looks like a purebred, so you yourself don't seem very sure.

Honestly, looks like a Tamaskan to me but I don't know the pedigree of your dog (not saying it IS a Tamaskan, just saying that's what it makes me think of.) 

Can you stack the dog so we can see?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## selzer

What is a Tamaskan?


----------



## kimbale

selzer said:


> What is a Tamaskan?


It's a sled dog out of Finland. Technically not a recognized breed (I don't think) but there are a good amount of breeders. Related to the husky. 



















Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## kimbale

Here's a picture of one that really looks like OP's dog.










Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## carmspack

just enjoy your dog.

this thread feels like you are looking for another reason why to breed your dog.

"rare" - TV show -- well recognized "star" Hobo (London and crew - because it was not even one dog).

just post the pedigree


----------



## girardid

wasnt the littlest hobo do a mix as well?


----------



## carmspack

girardid said:


> wasnt the littlest hobo do a mix as well?


no.

as I said in another thread he appealed to our working GSD club members to allow the male to breed to our females so that he could collect any pups with the same colour.


----------



## carmspack

carmspack said:


> just enjoy your dog.
> 
> this thread feels like you are looking for another reason why to breed your dog.
> 
> "rare" - TV show -- well recognized "star" Hobo (London and crew - because it was not even one dog).
> 
> just post the pedigree




I KNEW IT
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...y-rare-coat-marking-black-white-pure-gsd.html

you know nothing about the breed , and probably just as much about dogs.

no support from me -


----------



## Winnal

kimbale said:


> Can you prove this dog is pure? You have another post where you're asking for input on whether other people think your dog looks like a purebred, so you yourself don't seem very sure.
> 
> Honestly, looks like a Tamaskan to me but I don't know the pedigree of your dog (not saying it IS a Tamaskan, just saying that's what it makes me think of.)
> 
> Can you stack the dog so we can see?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Well as the thread progressed people gave useful insight and I also happened to receive her pedigree after posting. So as far as AKC concerned she's pure... on the other hand, people here seem to suggest that AKC amounts to nothing without both parents having DNA testing because apparently every breeder that doesn't have DNA record can just fake the registration by either a night caller which is by mistake but bad management of the kennel, or by straight deception if faking the birth from the dam. Some people here seem to basically suggest, for the sake of proving that it's impure that both are probably the case so my dog is not pure.



carmspack said:


> I KNEW IT
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...y-rare-coat-marking-black-white-pure-gsd.html
> 
> you know nothing about the breed , and probably just as much about dogs.
> 
> no support from me -


Dude I know it wasn't one dog... I said like from the TV show. I didn't specifically say it was just one dog.

You're the one that showed me as well as another guy that there were many dogs like mine on the show...


----------



## Winnal

carmspack said:


> just enjoy your dog.
> 
> this thread feels like you are looking for another reason why to breed your dog.
> 
> "rare" - TV show -- well recognized "star" Hobo (London and crew - because it was not even one dog).
> 
> just post the pedigree


Is it safe to post the whole thing?

And dude, what's wrong with asking questions to become aware of how to be a good breeder and learning about all the things you can do with your dog to get it recognized and earn awards to higher the value of your dog and making it a champion if possible, obviously, who doesn't want a well trained dog with titles and awards? I'm new to AKC and breeding so I want to learn, you act like you shouldn't want to learn and just never breed in the first place, then why are there breeders in the first place?

It just so happens because my dog has a weird coat and people won't believe it's pure when I have AKC at the very least, that's why I mentioned how her coat is unique and like the signature marking from the dogs in the tv show. Even if she didn't have a "unique" coat/marking I would still want to know about breeding.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

Yes, it is safe to post the entire pedigree. People do here all the time.

There are experts who can explain the pedigree, if you like.


----------



## Deb

Winnal said:


> Is it safe to post the whole thing?
> 
> And dude, what's wrong with asking questions to become aware of how to be a good breeder and *learning about all the things you can do with your dog to get it recognized and earn awards to higher the value of your dog and making it a champion if possible*, obviously, who doesn't want a well trained dog with titles and awards? I'm new to AKC and breeding so I want to learn, you act like you shouldn't want to learn and just never breed in the first place, then why are there breeders in the first place?
> 
> It just so happens because my dog has a weird coat and people won't believe it's pure when I have AKC at the very least, that's why I mentioned how her coat is unique and like the signature marking from the dogs in the tv show. Even if she didn't have a "unique" coat/marking I would still want to know about breeding.



If you are truly interested in learning about all the things you can do with your dog I would politely suggest that you ask about what you can do with her before you ask about breeding her.


----------



## Winnal

Deb said:


> If you are truly interested in learning about all the things you can do with your dog I would politely suggest that you ask about what you can do with her before you ask about breeding her.


If you read some of my posts, that's literally what I'm doing.. How to get her recognized, win titles and awards and attend shows and show her abilities like agility, tracking, even police training I would love to know about working as a police dog.



Stevenzachsmom said:


> Yes, it is safe to post the entire pedigree. People do here all the time.
> 
> There are experts who can explain the pedigree, if you like.


Ok, I was just told there was some information that could track you or something, maybe not anymore. I'll get a scanned copy soon or I'll post pictures before.


----------



## selzer

What I said is that no, you can't be 100% sure because too much relies upon the honesty of people (paraphrasing). Yes, a breeder CAN cheat on registration. To do so, is crazy, especially if the dogs are DNA'd, but it would be hard for them to prove it if they were not. I think that if the AKC asks, you might have to provide DNA if the dog is still living and there is a question.

I don't know this to be a fact. But, the American Kennel Club is a private organization and it can make up its own rules for its membership. You aren't protected by the government's bill of rights or anything like that. If they say, "provide DNA for this dog" then you will if you want to remain in good standing with them. Their main purpose is to record and maintain the stud books for all the breeds they recognize. So, if there is a question, and there is a way to determine the validity, in order to maintain their reputation, I think they would require DNA from a member. 

Members who refuse, would probably be disciplined as though they falsified the registration, something like a 2k fine and no privileges from 2-10 years. Now this is from reading old AKC Gazettes where they list those people who required disciplinary action. Fines might be larger now, and who knows what the other penalties would be. 

Losing privileges would mean, inability to register litters, go to shows, show dogs, transfer a registered dog to another owner as a registered dog, so it can be a big deal.


----------



## Winnal

selzer said:


> What I said is that no, you can't be 100% sure because too much relies upon the honesty of people (paraphrasing). Yes, a breeder CAN cheat on registration. To do so, is crazy, especially if the dogs are DNA'd, but it would be hard for them to prove it if they were not. I think that if the AKC asks, you might have to provide DNA if the dog is still living and there is a question.
> 
> I don't know this to be a fact. But, the American Kennel Club is a private organization and it can make up its own rules for its membership. You aren't protected by the government's bill of rights or anything like that. If they say, "provide DNA for this dog" then you will if you want to remain in good standing with them. Their main purpose is to record and maintain the stud books for all the breeds they recognize. So, if there is a question, and there is a way to determine the validity, in order to maintain their reputation, I think they would require DNA from a member.
> 
> Members who refuse, would probably be disciplined as though they falsified the registration, something like a 2k fine and no privileges from 2-10 years. Now this is from reading old AKC Gazettes where they list those people who required disciplinary action. Fines might be larger now, and who knows what the other penalties would be.
> 
> Losing privileges would mean, inability to register litters, go to shows, show dogs, transfer a registered dog to another owner as a registered dog, so it can be a big deal.


I'd rather know 100% she's pure then not lose my AKC. I mean I'm confident the father is the father and mom is mom anyway from the start. I know the breeder, actually lives locally in the area (super lucky) and they seem like nice people. Gave me health guarantee and contract for refund if anything goes wrong, never had an issue except some watery stools at tbe beginning then she turned into the most healthy dog I've ever seen (I've seen many champion bloodlines and health-wise she is just as healthy) and so many people comment on how healthy she is in different ways like at the vet her teeth are perfect they said.

And she barks super loud, like ear piercing, but doesn't bark for no reason.

In fact I regret not being more knowledgeable about breeding and training when I got her because I want her to reach her full potential... now I'm trying to do that.


----------



## Deb

_If you read some of my posts, that's literally what I'm doing.. How to get her recognized, win titles and awards and attend shows and show her abilities like agility, tracking, even police training I would love to know about working as a police dog._

I have obviously read all your threads and they are named for asking about breeding her and her 'rare' color. Start a thread and ask people what you can do with her. There are many people on this forum who have done different things with their GSDs. They can give you the information. Ask people to tell you about herding, nosework, agility, tracking, obedience, rally, IPO. There are many things you can do with her.


----------



## eddie1976E

I can't believe someone would look at that dog and say pure GSD....Maybe Ray Charles. Cute dog, definitely not a pure GSD. Don't care what the paperwork says. When was the last time the AKC cared about pedigree. Breeders can say the litter is from father X mom Y...and have it be father Z mom Y. Who would be able to confirm that?


----------



## Castlemaid

Looking at that very first puppy picture, I DON'T see GSD. Looks like a mixed-breed puppy.

The thing about the pedigree, is that the mom could have come from a litter that had more than on sire. The person who bred the mom may not have known that a bitch in heat can get impregnated by more than on male, and registered all the puppies with AKC. AKC just goes by the paperwork they receive. They don't request pics, or go out to check each litter born. So the Mom may be a mix, even though she is registered. And if she is registered, her offspring can be registered. 

Or the Mom of your pup is pure bred, but was impregnated by another dog, in addition to the sire. 

Either way, make this pup your learning dog - go out there and get involved in GSD stuff! Get your girl evaluated for IPO, get tracking titles, herding, advanced obedience. Learn for yourself what working ability looks like in what is essentially a working dog. Because breeding a working dog that won't work, is like breeding a Lab that is afraid of water, or hunting dog that won't retrieve. Lots of us have wonderful pets that, in our eyes, are just perfect. But breeders are guardians of the breed, and they fail the breed if they don't maintain the traits that are the essence of the breed.


----------



## Winnal

Guys we've already gone thru this my dog has pedigree with sire dna so I doubt the breeder will lie about sire with a dna record

As for traits? She has them she is always tracking, excellent bone hip should structure and very lean stomach that darts like a bullet when running can catch rabbits


----------



## Winnal

Deb said:


> _If you read some of my posts, that's literally what I'm doing.. How to get her recognized, win titles and awards and attend shows and show her abilities like agility, tracking, even police training I would love to know about working as a police dog._
> 
> I have obviously read all your threads and they are named for asking about breeding her and her 'rare' color. Start a thread and ask people what you can do with her. There are many people on this forum who have done different things with their GSDs. They can give you the information. Ask people to tell you about herding, nosework, agility, tracking, obedience, rally, IPO. There are many things you can do with her.


Well one it was cuz her coat I am question her purity but because she could be pure I asked about breeding her to see who would be interested and what I should show and know and do to be a good breeder. You're just taking the fact that I said my dog has a rare coat way too like competitively like I mean she's some super dog, I just noted how she could have a rare coat if she is really pure what's wrong with wanting to breed her if she is pure?


----------



## Kazel

Winnal said:


> Guys we've already gone thru this my dog has pedigree with sire dna so I doubt the breeder will lie about sire with a dna record
> 
> As for traits? She has them she is always tracking, excellent bone hip should structure and very lean stomach that darts like a bullet when running can catch rabbits


My purebred and my mutt both have these traits doesn't mean I breed them. Tons of pet dogs have these traits. The test is if you can nurture and grow these traits into a working ability. Well except for the hip thing, as none of my dogs have had x-rays and while they don't appear to have disabling or obviously deformed hips hips I can't say that they have excellent bone/hip structure since I don't have x-ray vision.

And honestly I no longer am surprised nor do I doubt about what people will lie about. You can watch somebody steal something and then have them lie to your face about it. **** humans have lied about the parentage of their own human children. Now just because I say this doesn't mean I think your breeder is lying.


----------



## Winnal

Kazel said:


> Winnal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys we've already gone thru this my dog has pedigree with sire dna so I doubt the breeder will lie about sire with a dna record
> 
> As for traits? She has them she is always tracking, excellent bone hip should structure and very lean stomach that darts like a bullet when running can catch rabbits
> 
> 
> 
> My purebred and my mutt both have these traits doesn't mean I breed them. Tons of pet dogs have these traits. The test is if you can nurture and grow these traits into a working ability. Well except for the hip thing, as none of my dogs have had x-rays and while they don't appear to have disabling or obviously deformed hips hips I can't say that they have excellent bone/hip structure since I don't have x-ray vision.
> 
> And honestly I no longer am surprised nor do I doubt about what people will lie about. You can watch somebody steal something and then have them lie to your face about it. **** humans have lied about the parentage of their own human children. Now just because I say this doesn't mean I think your breeder is lying.
Click to expand...

And all I am saying is she has potential and id like to breed her there's nothing wrong with that especially if I want to do it right and get her truly trained and tested I just feel like I am wasting her potential by not doing things breeders do to see if she could potentially be suited for breeding

Actually u can tell structure by sturdiness and muscle build and also just how active they are it's not hard proof but just how you can have an idea by looking so I am confident by 2 yr when I do hips and shoulder check with X-ray she will pass


----------



## Deb

Winnal said:


> Guys we've already gone thru this my dog has pedigree with sire dna so I doubt the breeder will lie about sire with a dna record
> 
> As for traits? She has them she is always tracking, excellent bone hip should structure and very lean stomach that darts like a bullet when running can catch rabbits



Winnal, a sire is DNA'd once he's sired a certain number of litters. It has nothing to do with anything else. We are trying to help you, but that means you need to listen to what people are trying to tell you. We're not trying to be mean, we're trying to educate you on what is entailed with breeding and with German Shepherds in general. We're not telling you outright not to breed her, but trying to get you to understand what is needed before you breed any German Shepherd. Until you know the standard, you can't look at any German Shepherd and know what you are seeing. Until you have experience, you can't understand temperament and drives. 


You've been given good advice on looking for an IPO club, also look for an agility club, an obedience club and get involved with them. Train your girl and learn with her. She's too young to be bred yet anyway, so enjoy learning with her.


----------



## Jax08

Winnal said:


> Well one it was cuz her coat I am question her purity but because she could be pure I asked about breeding her to see who would be interested and what I should show and know and do to be a good breeder. You're just taking the fact that I said my dog has a rare coat way too like competitively like I mean she's some super dog, I just noted how she could have a rare coat if she is really pure what's wrong with wanting to breed her if she is pure?


First, the objection to the "rare" coat is not a competitive issue. LOL It's that you advertised for a stud describing her as "rare" as if that was a breedable trait. It is not. A working dog needs to be able to work. Coat color is not a high priority except to keep it within standard.

Let's be honest about this....YOU posted a thread advertising for a stud. It's internet history now. Let's not play passive aggressive about it.

Second, that pattern is not "rare". It's your dog's washed out coloring that makes her look like a husky mix.

Unless your dog has a crushing grip or a stellar hunt drive, I see nothing special about her other than she's special to you as a pet.


----------



## Spetzio

Winnal said:


> And all I am saying is she has potential and is like to breed her there's nothing wrong with that especially if I want to do it right and get her truly trained and tested I just feel like I am wasting her potential by not doing things breeders do to see if she could potentially be suited for breeding


And that's great that you want to train and trial her. Setting aside the purebred vs not debate for the moment, let's say you get her evaluated by a local club and you find that she doesn't have the proper drives, genetic nerve strength, bidability and clear-headedness necessary to be a good IPO prospect/trial dog. What would you do then? Would you take this as a learning experience, stick around the club and watch the dogs trial, find what aspects of particular dogs you like and don't like, talk to those who work their dogs, make connections, find a mentor, and continuously learn from them before going out and getting a dog now with the knowledge of knowing what you're looking for and what exactly it takes to have a breed-worthy dog? Or would you scratch all this and breed her anyway because of the traits you have listed? 

These are honest questions, no ill intent meant at all. I'm not new to dogs but I'm certainly new to the breed, and I've found that there are some incredibly knowledgable people on this forum who really do know what they're talking about. I'd highly recommend taking their advice, or at the very least considering it. Some of them have been doing this for a long while now.


----------



## Deb

Winnal said:


> Well one it was cuz her coat I am question her purity but because she could be pure I asked about breeding her to see who would be interested and what I should show and know and do to be a good breeder. You're just taking the fact that I said my dog has a rare coat way too like competitively like I mean she's some super dog, I just noted how she could have a rare coat *if she is really pure what's wrong with wanting to breed her if she is pure*?



Winnal, there are many purebreds who shouldn't be bred. It's not that there's anything 'wrong' with them, they're great pets. But breeding should be done to improve the breed, to get a 'better' dog. For example, I have a beautiful Golden Retriever. He's a total sweetheart. But he doesn't match the standard, what he should look like. He's more than an inch over in size, he's not confident, he's on the shy side with people he doesn't know, his nose is the wrong color. Now if I bred him to another that doesn't match the standard and those pups are bred and their pups are bred. Will those puppies be the ones you want to buy if you're looking for a Golden? Or would you rather buy one that matches what a Golden Retrieve should be? It's the same with German Shepherds. If you want to be a good breeder you want to have a German Shepherd that matches the standard, that can do what the breed was bred to do. You need to have your girl's hips x-rayed and have her checked for DM. Lean and chases rabbits fast isn't something that's looked for in a German Shepherd. Educate yourself by reading the standard, reading all you can on German Shepherds, meeting the people who train their German Shepherds and make friends and learn from them.


----------



## maxtmill

Hi! I am just a pet owner, but when I saw the first picture of the OP pup, I thought it was cute, and presumed it was a GSD mix. Not just because of the color, but the head didn't look right.


----------



## Winnal

Deb said:


> Winnal, there are many purebreds who shouldn't be bred. It's not that there's anything 'wrong' with them, they're great pets. But breeding should be done to improve the breed, to get a 'better' dog. For example, I have a beautiful Golden Retriever. He's a total sweetheart. But he doesn't match the standard, what he should look like. He's more than an inch over in size, he's not confident, he's on the shy side with people he doesn't know, his nose is the wrong color. Now if I bred him to another that doesn't match the standard and those pups are bred and their pups are bred. Will those puppies be the ones you want to buy if you're looking for a Golden? Or would you rather buy one that matches what a Golden Retrieve should be? It's the same with German Shepherds. If you want to be a good breeder you want to have a German Shepherd that matches the standard, that can do what the breed was bred to do. You need to have your girl's hips x-rayed and have her checked for DM. Lean and chases rabbits fast isn't something that's looked for in a German Shepherd. Educate yourself by reading the standard, reading all you can on German Shepherds, meeting the people who train their German Shepherds and make friends and learn from them.


You're not listening, if shes pure and you can get her trained and tested to be suitable of course


----------



## Winnal

Spetzio said:


> And that's great that you want to train and trial her. Setting aside the purebred vs not debate for the moment, let's say you get her evaluated by a local club and you find that she doesn't have the proper drives, genetic nerve strength, bidability and clear-headedness necessary to be a good IPO prospect/trial dog. What would you do then? Would you take this as a learning experience, stick around the club and watch the dogs trial, find what aspects of particular dogs you like and don't like, talk to those who work their dogs, make connections, find a mentor, and continuously learn from them before going out and getting a dog now with the knowledge of knowing what you're looking for and what exactly it takes to have a breed-worthy dog? Or would you scratch all this and breed her anyway because of the traits you have listed?
> 
> These are honest questions, no ill intent meant at all. I'm not new to dogs but I'm certainly new to the breed, and I've found that there are some incredibly knowledgable people on this forum who really do know what they're talking about. I'd highly recommend taking their advice, or at the very least considering it. Some of them have been doing this for a long while now.


Then I would still consider breeding for pets only. You do realize that breeding has a lot of luck involved like dna genetics so even a champion dog could produce average dogs and an average dog of this current gen could produce a champion level dog from inherited genes from past generation... Assuming she's healthy and all and it's also about training from a young age. Nothing wrong with that. And if she's not pure then it won't be pure akc breeding. I wouldn't go and lie saying she is and try and get a purebred and mix them...


----------



## Deb

Winnal said:


> Then I would still consider breeding for pets only. You do realize that breeding has a lot of luck involved like dna genetics so even a champion dog could produce average dogs and an average dog of this current gen could produce a champion level dog from inherited genes from past generation... Assuming she's healthy and all and it's also about training from a young age. Nothing wrong with that. And if she's not pure then it won't be pure akc breeding. I wouldn't go and lie saying she is and try and get a purebred and mix them...



Then you've made up your mind and aren't interested in what we are trying to educate you on. I hope you at least read the articles I took the time to find for you.


----------



## cloudpump

Winnal said:


> You're not listening, if shes pure and you can get her trained and tested to be suitable of course


I can train in hockey and take tests. Doesn't mean I'll ever play professionally or be a rocket science. I'd be just another guy in the beer leagues or a guy that likes rockets
Your dog can train and test. Doesn't mean you should breed a fault. Youd just be another byb. 
You're going to do what you want. Nothing anyone here says will change that. Might as well realize, no one here is going to justify you breeding your pet. Stick around, learn about the breed.


----------



## cloudpump

Deb said:


> Then you've made up your mind and aren't interested in what we are trying to educate you on. I hope you at least read the articles I took the time to find for you.


How many bybers actually care enough to read articles?


----------



## Winnal

Deb said:


> _If you read some of my posts, that's literally what I'm doing.. How to get her recognized, win titles and awards and attend shows and show her abilities like agility, tracking, even police training I would love to know about working as a police dog._
> 
> I have obviously read all your threads and they are named for asking about breeding her and her 'rare' color. Start a thread and ask people what you can do with her. There are many people on this forum who have done different things with their GSDs. They can give you the information. Ask people to tell you about herding, nosework, agility, tracking, obedience, rally, IPO. There are many things you can do with her.


Thats what im doing. I made one post about breeding and made a bad title when I was just trying to find generic information and see if anyone was interested and then it got locked but you keep going on about that.

obviously the whole discussion has been if she really is pure than she has a "rare" caot (you can say its not whatever, oh its washed out, umm, it looks the same as the dogs in Littlest Hobo) and I'd like to breed her if she is truly pure and also has all the traits of a suited dam and obviously that requires tarining, and good diet food ,exercise love and support to breed such a strong blodline.


----------



## Winnal

cloudpump said:


> I can train in hockey and take tests. Doesn't mean I'll ever play professionally or be a rocket science. I'd be just another guy in the beer leagues or a guy that likes rockets
> Your dog can train and test. Doesn't mean you should breed a fault. Youd just be another byb.
> You're going to do what you want. Nothing anyone here says will change that. Might as well realize, no one here is going to justify you breeding your pet. Stick around, learn about the breed.


dont be a smart ass, im didnt say im training her to sky dive.


----------



## cloudpump

Winnal said:


> dont be a smart ass, im didnt say im training her to sky dive.


Well jokes on you. My smart ass isn't trying to be a troll on a gsd forum arguing all over the forum about trying to breed a gsd with faults or a husky mix. 
Post your hip scores. Post your titles. Post a pedigree. Try the husky forum. 
Or learn what it takes to be an actual breeder/responsible pet owner.
:x


----------



## Winnal

cloudpump said:


> Well jokes on you. My smart ass isn't trying to be a troll on a gsd forum arguing all over the forum about trying to breed a gsd with faults or a husky mix.
> Post your hip scores. Post your titles. Post a pedigree. Try the husky forum.
> Or learn what it takes to be an actual breeder/responsible pet owner.
> :x


thats what im planning to do lol

u assume faults, assuming mix, i tried to verify, cant be sure, could be pure, could be not, who's to tell me?


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

Winnal said:


> ... I'd like to breed her if she is truly pure and also has all the traits of a suited dam and obviously that requires tarining, and good diet food ,exercise love and support to breed such a strong blodline.


None of the things you mentioned are genetic. How would any of that contribute to breeding a strong bloodline?


----------



## Winnal

Jax08 said:


> First, the objection to the "rare" coat is not a competitive issue. LOL It's that you advertised for a stud describing her as "rare" as if that was a breedable trait. It is not. A working dog needs to be able to work. Coat color is not a high priority except to keep it within standard.
> 
> Let's be honest about this....YOU posted a thread advertising for a stud. It's internet history now. Let's not play passive aggressive about it.
> 
> Second, that pattern is not "rare". It's your dog's washed out coloring that makes her look like a husky mix.
> 
> Unless your dog has a crushing grip or a stellar hunt drive, I see nothing special about her other than she's special to you as a pet.


it's not a breeding trait rather a plus on aethetics if you like it but cledarly you dont and just cuz i said rare doesnt mean anything and if u take that too seriously and get all riled up about it clearly ur just being a hater,.

and maybe im not trying to be standard then but still be ethical and responsible? if i wanted to be standard i would get a standard coat gsd.


----------



## cloudpump

Winnal said:


> thats what im planning to do lol
> 
> u assume faults, assuming mix, i tried to verify, cant be sure, could be pure, could be not, who's to tell me?


Hmmmm, I don't assume a reverse mask is a fault. It is. You're dog looks like a nice pet. Doesn't better or maintain the breed. Please don't insult breeders on here and out there that are making an effort to better the breed or maintain the high standards.


----------



## Nigel

Are you ready to accept the possibility of losing her? Not all pregnancies go as planned, there are definite risks involved. Dam and pups may require expensive vetting easily running up a huge tab. Are you prepared to keep pups no one buys? or pups people may decide to return? If the dam rejects the pups are you ready for a round the clock routine to care for them? Lots to think about other than lining up a sire.


----------



## Winnal

cloudpump said:


> Hmmmm, I don't assume a reverse mask is a fault. It is. You're dog looks like a nice pet. Doesn't better or maintain the breed. Please don't insult breeders on here and out there that are making an effort to better the breed or maintain the high standards.


how am i insulting breeders by not knowing? lol ur a joke


----------



## Winnal

Nigel said:


> Are you ready to accept the possibility of losing her? Not all pregnancies go as planned, there are definite risks involved. Dam and pups may require expensive vetting easily running up a huge tab. Are you prepared to keep pups no one buys? or pups people may decide to return? If the dam rejects the pups are you ready for a round the clock routine to care for them? Lots to think about other than lining up a sire.


thanks for that yes i am definitely going to consider all that.


----------



## Femfa

Winnal said:


> it's not a breeding trait rather a plus on aethetics if you like it but cledarly you dont and just cuz i said rare doesnt mean anything and if u take that too seriously and get all riled up about it clearly ur just being a hater,.
> 
> and maybe im not trying to be standard then but still be ethical and responsible? if i wanted to be standard i would get a standard coat gsd.



"Standard"... interesting use of this word in such context. Standards exist for a reason, especially for dog breeds. It's what makes the breed distinct and also helps guide those who plan to breed so they can carefully consider how their dogs can suit that standard. And if you know GSD's, you'll know the standard focuses more on temperament than on a *single* coat colour (because in this case you're clearly thinking of solely black and tan GSDs) considering their exceptional colour genetics. All of her characteristics should be carefully matched to a sire's temperament to complement your female in order to improve the breed and possibly make up for both of their short comings... their litters should confidently display the breed standard. If you're passionate about the breed, you'll take time to learn more about it and genuinely consider your actions and reflect on if they are being done to benefit the animal you love so dearly as a whole or just yourself. Every single member here is truly, truly passionate about GSD's and _many_ of them are highly experienced in different aspects of what the breed is capable of. 

Forums are used to help others learn, and learning isn't always an easy process if you're not willing to be open minded and accept criticism - positive or constructive. We care about the breed and what can be done to make it better, and there is a copious amount of incredible advice to be heard if you're willing to listen. In fact, you've received a lot of it. But you can't expect people to sugar coat or agree with you when your decision to breed is based solely off the colour of your dog and because you love her.


----------



## Spetzio

Winnal said:


> how am i insulting breeders by not knowing? lol ur a joke


How old are you?


----------



## cloudpump

Winnal said:


> how am i insulting breeders by not knowing? lol ur a joke


By suggesting to breed your dog. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## Winnal

Femfa said:


> "Standard"... interesting use of this word in such context. Standards exist for a reason, especially for dog breeds. It's what makes the breed distinct and also helps guide those who plan to breed so they can carefully consider how their dogs can suit that standard. And if you know GSD's, you'll know the standard focuses more on temperament than on a *single* coat colour (because in this case you're clearly thinking of solely black and tan GSDs) considering their exceptional colour genetics. All of her characteristics should be carefully matched to a sire's temperament to complement your female in order to improve the breed and possibly make up for both of their short comings... their litters should confidently display the breed standard. If you're passionate about the breed, you'll take time to learn more about it and genuinely consider your actions and reflect on if they are being done to benefit the animal you love so dearly as a whole or just yourself. Every single member here is truly, truly passionate about GSD's and _many_ of them are highly experienced in different aspects of what the breed is capable of.
> 
> Forums are used to help others learn, and learning isn't always an easy process if you're not willing to be open minded and accept criticism - positive or constructive. We care about the breed and what can be done to make it better, and there is a copious amount of incredible advice to be heard if you're willing to listen. In fact, you've received a lot of it. But you can't expect people to sugar coat or agree with you when your decision to breed is based solely off the colour of your dog and because you love her.


it's not solely based on her coat, it was just a point i wanted to add, has nothing to do with my decision to breed...... thats what u ppl dont get. i talked about her health, temperament, trait plenty of times and trying to find out how to get her tested and trained. i said she has potential overall, and her coat is just something unique ppl argue over and i wanted proof of whether she's really pure....

why criticize someone asking for proof and verification because they are unknowledgeable? what's the point? that's just being aggressive towards them.

and the whole issue is whether she is really pure but then apparently the coat isn't standard anyway so it's not going to be any show line which i didn't expect because it's working line dog anyway... im looking for like maybe police dog training if possible and just tracking and agility in general.


----------



## Femfa

Winnal said:


> it's not solely based on her coat, it was just a point i wanted to add, has nothing to do with my decision to breed...... thats what u ppl dont get. i talked about her health, temperament, trait plenty of times and trying to find out how to get her tested and trained. i said she has potential overall, and her coat is just something unique ppl argue over and i wanted proof of whether she's really pure....
> 
> why criticize someone asking for proof and verification because they are unknowledgeable? what's the point? that's just being aggressive towards them.
> 
> and the whole issue is whether she is really pure but then apparently the coat isn't standard anyway so it's not going to be any show line which i didn't expect because it's working line dog anyway... im looking for like maybe police dog training if possible and just tracking and agility in general.


Before you can talk about her being healthy, it's absolutely paramount to have OFA documents of her hips and elbows and to know if she is a carrier for DM. It's also important to consider who her sire and dam are and who you'll breed her to so that you can consider how line breeding might affect the health of future litters.

As for temperament, the only way to have that truly defined is by attending an IPO club or another sport and having her trained in what the breed excels at. There are incredible people who attend those clubs who would gladly assist you in determining her strengths and weaknesses and how to work on them... but remember there are many faults aside from coat colour that are genetic. Training and allowing her to mature is the best way to find out what those faults are. It would be a tad difficult to excel in IPO, agility, AND police dog training. It's best to have her drive assessed and then work from there. She might be a wonderful herding dog, for example. Or she might make a great dog for personal protection. But you won't know until she has been handled for a few years and her drive matures.

Her coat colour is really moot point. She already is outside of the breed standard because of it, and if you were to breed her to a dog out of consideration of the standard chances are her pups wouldn't even have such light colouring. So definitely focus on her temperament, structure, and allow her to mature mentally and physically. Work with her at a local club or a trainer who specializes in GSDs to learn as much as you can about her. Dogs change drastically as they develop, and if your dog is Czech or DDR, they're well known for maturing quite late in comparison to the other lines.

Like I've said, we aren't here to attack you, we're here to help. But when it comes to breeding, many of us will get defensive in trying to protect the breed because of how much we love it.


----------



## melissajancie

I have a hard time reading responses that look more like texting. Guess you can call me old fashioned


----------



## Winnal

cloudpump said:


> By suggesting to breed your dog.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


so from a completely non-experienced breeder's standpoint, i cant even ask to find out it turns out people dont like the idea of breeding her? i cant even find that out if i dont know? that's insulting the breeders?



melissajancie said:


> I have a hard time reading responses that look more like texting. Guess you can call me old fashioned


when u have 100 ppl replying then u start to type fast.


----------



## Winnal

Femfa said:


> Before you can talk about her being healthy, it's absolutely paramount to have OFA documents of her hips and elbows and to know if she is a carrier for DM. It's also important to consider who her sire and dam are and who you'll breed her to so that you can consider how line breeding might affect the health of future litters.
> 
> As for temperament, the only way to have that truly defined is by attending an IPO club or another sport and having her trained in what the breed excels at. There are incredible people who attend those clubs who would gladly assist you in determining her strengths and weaknesses and how to work on them... but remember there are many faults aside from coat colour that are genetic. Training and allowing her to mature is the best way to find out what those faults are. It would be a tad difficult to excel in IPO, agility, AND police dog training. It's best to have her drive assessed and then work from there. She might be a wonderful herding dog, for example. Or she might make a great dog for personal protection. But you won't know until she has been handled for a few years and her drive matures.
> 
> Her coat colour is really moot point. She already is outside of the breed standard because of it, and if you were to breed her to a dog out of consideration of the standard chances are her pups wouldn't even have such light colouring. So definitely focus on her temperament, structure, and allow her to mature mentally and physically. Work with her at a local club or a trainer who specializes in GSDs to learn as much as you can about her. Dogs change drastically as they develop, and if your dog is Czech or DDR, they're well known for maturing quite late in comparison to the other lines.
> 
> Like I've said, we aren't here to attack you, we're here to help. But when it comes to breeding, many of us will get defensive in trying to protect the breed because of how much we love it.


Of course im going to get hip certified, shes only 1 yr old i was told to do it at 2 yr by a reputable, champion bloodline breeder.

and you can say the color is moot, and i don't disagree in the since it doesnt truly matter except just visuals (unless u want to have the standard coat), i just wanted to verify whether she was really pure or not because the whole argument came from the fact that the coat is not the standard coloring.... so ppl started saying she could be pure because of the dogs from that tv show, so naturally i started saying its a "rare" coat from the tv show and so she could be pure then everyone started getting mad.


----------

