# anyone know anything about wolves?



## hollysmommy (Dec 3, 2010)

we still have our 7 month old german shepherd, holly, we just got a puppy tonight, father was 100% wolf, and the mother was 50%wolf/50%german shepherd, i was just wondering if anyone on here had any type of wolf, along with their german shepherds, or if anyone knew anything about wolfs in general. i dont really know much about the breed but she is 5 weeks old which is good for a wolf because everything ive read online says to separate wold puppies from the mother at two weeks, but that is all i know. anything will help my knowledge thanks!


----------



## RogueRed26 (Jul 15, 2010)

First, five weeks is quite young to be sepatated from her mother and siblings; without then, bite inhibiton and hierarchy will not be established. Second, a hybrid wolf is probably gonna be a handful as it is,even if adopted at 8 weeks, due to her genetics, especially in the socialization department. I would look into contacting a professional dog trainer in your area to help guide you in raising this type of puppy correctly. Not trying to offend but these types of dogd are illegal to own in some states due to the inability to properly domesticate them. I would see if you are even allowed to own one. The last thing you want to do is get in trouble with the law.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Wolf hybrids are incredibly difficult to contain as well as socialize. Those that are experts in wolves advise they and hybrids should never be kept as pets. I used to live by the Wolf Park, there is a lot of helpful information on their website Wolf Park - America's Other Controversial Canine, the Wolf Hybrid

From my limited knowledge, your biggest hurdles are going to be socialization, containment, and vaccinations. Rabies and such isn't approved to be used in wolves, so there are some issues with state laws requiring rabies vax etc.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

WHY?

Is there any chance to reverse this decision?


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> WHY?
> 
> Is there any chance to reverse this decision?


I agree.


----------



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Where would a person even purchase a hybrid with such high ratio? (50X50)
Most of the hybrids that I have seen for consideration.....have a much lower combination ratio...usually not over 25%....and many even lower.


----------



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

You have a high content wolf dog. My brother raises them. You have to take them from the parents den early in order to socialize them
Inside the home or they will revert to wolf pack life and not be a " family pet" ugh it's not my favorite subject.
High content wolves require special containment.


----------



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Not to be rude, but why would you even get a pup without researching the breed? Google high content wolf dog, not wolf hybrid. They don't call them that around here. 
Best of luck to the animal.


----------



## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Oh dear, good luck with your puppy. My mum had a wolf hybrid, 50:50 as yours is who she rescued as a young puppy. His name is Hodo. Believe me when I say they are not pet material. Hodo was socialised, brought to puppy classes and obedience classes but once he hit puberty he changed drastically. He dominates her other dogs to the extreme, there have been huge fights as he desperately whats to control his pack. He is skittish and very unnerved by anyone other then myself or my mum, even my brothers are scared to be around him. He is very food aggressive and has bitten in the past. He has a very large inclosure that was built for him outside as he's uncomfortable in the house. Yes hes affectionate to my mum but he is a wild animal at heart. I really would recommend returning your puppy if you are not prepared to deal with a dog who has much stronger instincts then a normal dog. and who will need very special care.


----------



## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

They are taken early before first fear period near 3 weeks and hand raised
to not be fearful of humans.

They become adults, their brain size increases up to 20% larger than our dogs that stay somewhat juvenile (trainable) into old age.

Hybrids- This is not likely only dumb, but also illegal. Check your area's laws. Containment is very expensive and too often, ineffective. Consequences can be tragic and/or fatal.


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

IMO it should be illegal EVERYWHERE to own wolf mixes. Thankfully, many "greeders" out there selling "wolf hybrids" are actually lying to get money... and they don't contain any wolf at all. Hopefully this is the case with your pup... 

Ugh. People think it's so "cool" to own a wolf. Very, very wrong, IMO.


----------



## robertm (Apr 20, 2011)

I agree with the others. This is a big mistake. Of all the animals out there that need homes you pick the one that has no place in one.


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

That is a VERY high content wolf/dog! I would be giving it back ASAP! There is too much natural instinct with these animals and they can't make a real pet. Very dangerous IMO if it is infact 75% wolf. Do you have any pictures? Chances are it may not be wolf at all...alot of people sell pups that they claim are part wolf, and actually contain little to no wolf at all. Like mentioned, hopefully that is the case!


----------



## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

*** Inappropriate comment - MOD *** Perhaps insted of checking with a German Shepherd forum, you should check with a Wolf forum.


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Davey Benson said:


> *** Inappropriate comment - MOD *** . Perhaps insted of checking with a German Shepherd forum, you should check with a Wolf forum.


Possibly, but we all seem to be in agreement here. And the truth is, it's NOT a good idea to own an animal like this. A wolf/dog forum may encourage ownership. The fact is, it is a risk to alot of people to have this type of pet, including the public.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

hollysmommy said:


> i was just wondering if anyone on here had any type of wolf, along with their german shepherds, or if anyone knew anything about wolfs in general. i dont really know much about the breed


You'll probably find more help on a wolf or wolf hybrid forum. What you have isn't common so unless you talk to someone with real experience all you're going to get is opinions. 

Do you mind sharing how you ended up with this pup? Any pictures?


----------



## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

Wow - that's a very high wolf content...are you sure it is wolf and that the seller didn't lie to you? If the seller had these wolves then if you saw where the puppies were kept or saw the adults the area would have been heavily fenced. 

To contain a wolf, or wolf-hybrid, requires some SERIOUS fencing. It needs to be underground so they can't dig out, on all sides and above. 

I agree with the pp's that wolf-hybrid pups are usually taken away at a very young age so - your pup is definitely quite a bit older for raising a hybrid. 

Good luck with this if it truly is a wolf-hybrid. 

What the pp's said about possibly returning it might be a good idea since it sounds like you aren't quite ready.


----------



## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

Sounds like a good commercial for 'Fatal Attractions'


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

One of my neighbors has a wolf/Malamute mix.

He is very sweet and very well behaved but he had alot of training. 

I highly suggest you get into obedience classes asap.


----------



## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

Wolves have always been my favorite animal and in college I was convinced that I would one day own one. Thus, I have done extensive research into this topic, which is why I have also nixed the idea. Socialization is 100% important and necessary, but don't be surprised if the dog does not accept people outside of your immediate family. From people who have owned hybrids that I have talked to, they have to remove the dog from the house when visitors are there. It is not that the dog is naturally aggressive, but it will be extremely protective and reactive which is a recipe for disaster. You will need to enroll in intense training, as the combination of wolf and dog characteristic traits will often lead to an unpredictable and powerful animal. You will also need a fenced in yard with the fence at least 8+ feet high and 2-4 feet underground. One other major problem is that wolves cannot have several of the vaccines which are reccommended for dogs and are sometimes mandatory by law, such as rabies. Thus you will have to have your veterinarian fill out certain forms which may have to be submitted to government officials. Also make sure you have researched your state laws, many states have made owning a wolf or wolf hybrid illegal. The pup should bond well with your GSD but wolves and hybrids naturally try to assert pack dominance, thus if your dog has an alpha personality there might be clashes.


----------



## hollysmommy (Dec 3, 2010)

i never said for sure, but thats what they had told me, both parents were there, very huge and could tell they were wolves, but VERY SWEET, my husband is a marine and they do intense training on base for the coyotes, (the ones that get hurt that cannot be returned to the wild), german shepherds, and different kinds of dogs, the coyotes are playfull and arent mean at all to humans, so im pretty sure my puppy will be fine, ive taken in "wild" animals since i was 7 years old, ive had macaws that have bitten that i had to socialize, baby squirls, wild cats, and wild dogs.i know what ive gotten myself into. thanks for your oppinions though..


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

hollysmommy said:


> . . .my husband is a marine and they do intense training on base for the coyotes. . . the coyotes are playfull and arent mean at all to humans, so im pretty sure my puppy will be fine. . . .i know what ive gotten myself into.


Then why did you ask?


----------



## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

hollysmommy said:


> we still have our 7 month old german shepherd, holly, we just got a puppy tonight, father was 100% wolf, and the mother was 50%wolf/50%german shepherd, i was just wondering if anyone on here had any type of wolf, along with their german shepherds, or if anyone knew anything about wolfs in general. i dont really know much about the breed but she is 5 weeks old which is good for a wolf because everything ive read online says to separate wold puppies from the mother at two weeks, but that is all i know. anything will help my knowledge thanks!


I don't mean to seem rude but if you know what your getting into then why did you post above?


----------



## hollysmommy (Dec 3, 2010)

i asked if anyone had any wolves WITH their german shepherds to see how the two interacted?????


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Emoore said:


> Then why did you ask?


Same here


----------



## hollysmommy (Dec 3, 2010)




----------



## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

hollysmommy said:


> i asked if anyone had any wolves WITH their german shepherds to see how the two interacted?????


Beowulf and Nara get along just fine.

50% of the people on here believe that Beowulf has no wolf in him at all. That's their opinion and that's fine. Unless I do DNA testing, I won't know for sure, but Beowulf's father was supposedly half wolf/half Malamute and his mother was half wolf/half Siberian Husky.

He's just our big baby, dog or wolfdog!


----------



## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

hollysmommy said:


> i never said for sure, but thats what they had told me, both parents were there, very huge and could tell they were wolves, but VERY SWEET, my husband is a marine and they do intense training on base for the coyotes, (the ones that get hurt that cannot be returned to the wild), german shepherds, and different kinds of dogs, the coyotes are playfull and arent mean at all to humans, so im pretty sure my puppy will be fine, ive taken in "wild" animals since i was 7 years old, ive had macaws that have bitten that i had to socialize, baby squirls, wild cats, and wild dogs.i know what ive gotten myself into. thanks for your oppinions though..


I know some coyote mix dogs and they are on a whole nice dogs, but I think it's because of the people who own them and have taken the time to train them.

I would never try a wolf mix though, I think there is a lot of difference between wolves and coyotes.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Wolves are my favorite animal. Have LOVED them since i was very little. However, i'm not sure i would be willing to take on the task of raising a wolf dog. I have been around a few. Trooper was the best. Very sweet, one of the few friendly ones, and he adored my dogs. They played a couple times a week. All i can say is good look and i honestly look forward to pictures as your pup grows. She's adorable.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

very cute puppy, not sure he looks 'wolfy' to me other than his coloring at this point.

I wouldn't own a high content wolf, did you watch Fatal Attractions where a lady raised wolves and they ended up killing her 

A neighbor of ours had a high content one, was telling everyone it was a sibe, but insiders he told it was a high content wolf he purchased in CA and brought here where it's illegal to own wolf mixes as pets.

Anyhow, the dog (wolf) acted exactly like a wolf, skiddish , standoffish wth strangers, it ended up grabbing a kid by the arm trying to pull him thru it's kennel fencing..AC came in, shipped the dog off to a wolf sanctuary, owner got a hefty fine, and some medical bills to pay..


----------



## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

counter said:


> Beowulf and Nara get along just fine.
> 
> 50% of the people on here believe that Beowulf has no wolf in him at all. That's their opinion and that's fine. Unless I do DNA testing, I won't know for sure, but Beowulf's father was supposedly half wolf/half Malamute and his mother was half wolf/half Siberian Husky.
> 
> He's just our big baby, dog or wolfdog!


wow, no Beowulf oozes wolf mix to me! There are several species and subspecies of wolf. Many people don't recognize the difference because they often only see pictures of the gray wolf, etc... my brother has Tundra Wolves. To me, its the ears, eyes and height that give them away.
Beautiful dogs!!


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

actually beowulf DOES look wolf to me, it's the eye set and the muzzle that does it for me,,but as I said, the puppy, to me, doesn't scream wolf other than color.


----------



## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

Beowulf is beautiful! Definitely looks wolfish to me. To the OP, good luck with your puppy, she is adorable!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yet another poster who asks questions, but knows it all, is NOT going to listen, and will do as she pleases, thank you very much. 

Try a wolf-dog or wolf-hybrid forum. 

PLEASE do not call it a German Shepherd Mix. The GSD walked through it basically and it will act as much a German Shepherd as a Peekapoo. 

Isn't that like not even fair to the wolf-dog? I mean, you are taking a shepherd dog that should not really like the smell of a wolf and mixing it. I mean the wolf-dog ought to grow up conflicted with 25% of itself wanting to annihilate the other 75%, 25% wanting to guard and protect, and the other 75 wanting to slink away and avoid human attention. 

This is just my opinion, to which I am entitled: mixing wolves and dogs is stupid and dangerous, and it really should be criminal.


----------



## robertm (Apr 20, 2011)

hollysmommy said:


> i asked if anyone had any wolves WITH their german shepherds to see how the two interacted?????


 
Wouldn't that depend on you? I mean you can be pretty certain that without a lot of training and socialization it will go badly for everyone involved. 

Honestly, I would not want the stress. I have 2 powerful GSDs that are capable of substantial damage. There is very little the average person much less a child would be able to do to stop them. One day they managed to get out of the fence because of some weather damage I didn't catch and had an unsupervised outing of probably a couple of hours or more. My only concern upon realizing they were out was that they wander off property and get shot or picked up because they didn't have collars. I was never worried they would hurt someone. Of course a quick shout and they came barreling towards me with looks that they knew they had gotten away with something but it could happen again.

My dogs were socialized but it hardly required a massive effort on my part. Between friends and family coming over, dog playdates, and some trips to the dog park to meet and greet it was pretty easy. You can go up to a perfect stranger at a dog park and ask for an assist with socialization and almost everyone knows what to do. I know I have returned the favor.


----------



## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

Here's the state by state laws and regulations on owning a wolfdog (I don't know how up to date it is though):

NWA, Legislative Issues - State Regulations

A site with pictures and information on wolfdog containment:

Wolfdog Containment, Fencing

Wolfdog FAQ:

Wolfdog FAQ, Frequently Asked Questions about Wolf-Dog Crosses

A site dedicated to wolfdogs:

The Wolf Dunn (hybrid wolf / wolf-dog cross info)

Comprehensive guide to raising a wolfdog:

http://wolfdog.ws/index.html

Good luck with your high content wolfdog! I think we'd all like to see more pics as she grows.


----------



## BadLieutenant (May 9, 2010)

There is a Dog Whisperer episode on just Wolf Hybrids. After watching it, I would never imagine getting one.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Good luck with the wolf dog, coyotes and wolves are nothing a like. Coyotes are scavengers, they only hunt small rodents and the rest they scavange. Wolves are hunters and will take down animals 5 times their size. The color definately makes your pup look like a wolf, and I guess as puppies no dogs look like they're supposed to so he/she might be a wolf.

Question on Beowolf...how big is he? Just wondering as I'm pretty sure all species of wolves are large and with two wolves and a malamute in there you'd think he'd be much bigger than the husky he's next to. Not denying he might have wolf in him, I'm just interested.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i agree beowolf has a wolfie look. He very much resembles the artic wolves at the Denver Zoo. his eye set and ear set gives it away for me big time.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

we have several private zoos in the immediate area including "Cat World" who also bred German Shepherds. I knew him and used to have lots of behind the scenes access to his zoo . Saw lots of little baby wolves . A trait that they had was ears up from the time they were 4 weeks of age. This pup does not look wolfy. 

If it is , what is the guy doing with a 100% wolf male in captivity --- ? Now that is not legal.

Carmen
http://www.carmspack.


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

selzer said:


> This is just my opinion, to which I am entitled: mixing wolves and dogs is stupid and dangerous, and it really should be criminal.


I completely agree..... 


Too dangerous.... You don't have the ancestry of that wolf, how in the WORLD do you know what your breeding???


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

I know a girl who has a wolf/siberian husky or malamute. I've been around this dog a lot.

He behaves very strangely. The minute you walk in the door, he's on you. He sniffs and studies you. He's huge too. 

The girl who raised him says he was very hard to raise. His wild side showed a lot when he was younger. He's still kinda hard to control.

She recently bred him to a husky and the husky gave birth to seven pups. All pups sold. Apparently, the black market for wolf dogs is good. Unfortunately, money helps to throw ethics out the window. 

I full disagree with knowingly breeding wolf dogs or wolf hybrids.


----------



## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

I know its a totally different country, buuuuuttttt.
I know a woman who has just pts the last of her " 3" Dingo X's.
50% Dingo
50% Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog - 
They looked and acted like pure Dingoes, but had a stumpy tail

A 14 yr nightmare for most of the time she said, and can you believe what she has now ..........Two little fluffies !!

These animals dont belong in Pet homes, and they only belong with very very experienced handlers, in the right place, the bush.

its just a biiiig NO NO........ IMHO.

This woman has had so many dramas, should have known better, i only know her from the Dog Park, yep, the dog park.

She would bring th e3 of them through, they looked like pure Dingo's, dont really know how she even was able to keep them in Town, i guess because they were X's. They ended up attacking a lot of Dogs, so one was muzzled, she walked half the day with them, was always seen walking walking walking, and occasionally she tied them up outside the Shopping center at a little Park opposite

OMG--- they HOWLED AND HOWLED, and people came form everywhere to see what sort of Dogs were out there, and the noise sent all the Dogs mental, but really, they had close to a totally undiluted collection of drives that were totally geared for the bush, and no -where else.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

hollysmommy said:


> i asked if anyone had any wolves WITH their german shepherds to see how the two interacted?????


You actually said;



> i was just wondering if anyone on here had any type of wolf, along with their german shepherds, or if *anyone knew anything about wolfs in general.*


I think the suggestions to find people who've raised wolves was a good one, especially if this pup is really 75% wolf. 
The dog is going to possibly exhibit more wolflike mannerisms and characteristics than a GSD, and as it reaches adolescence you really want to know what you're looking at.


----------



## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

As for the puppy, it is beautiful!


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I highly doubt that puppy has any wolf in him at all. If he does it is VERY low. Beowulf looks wolfish, but there are many dog breeds that are very wolfish looking and dog mixes that look wolfish.

The ONLY people who should wolves are those who are experienced, have knowledge of these animals, and know what they are doing. You are mixing something wild with something that has been domesticated for a long time. There is no guarantee what the animal's offspring will be like. Owning a wolf dog is NOTHING like owning a regular dog, especially a high content. Anyone who is selling high content wolf dogs are lying about their wolf dog's content 98% of the time.

If anyone wants to own a wolf dog, DO YOUR RESEARCH!


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

First off, The term WOLFHYBRID is incorrect, they are the same species as domestics dogs. So they are wolfdogs. Also what is the name of the breeder you got them from? ALOT of breeders of "so-called" wolfdogs misrepresent the percentage of wolf in there dogs in order to sell them at higher prices. Wolfdogs ARE NOT for everyone, they require ALOT of TRAINING and SOCIALIZATION. There is alot of incorrect and ignorant statements in this thread about wolfdogs. They ARE NOT vicious animals like movies and tv makes them out to be, they are SHY animals, they are fear biters, usually because of the lack of socialization. I know all of this because we have a mid content wolfdog. please feel free to contact me in regards to information, and I highly recommend you check out the wolfdog forums.


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

WarrantsWifey said:


> I completely agree.....
> 
> 
> Too dangerous.... You don't have the ancestry of that wolf, how in the WORLD do you know what your breeding???


 
REPUTABLE wolfdog breeders KNOW the ancestry of their Wolf line, just as well as we know our GSD line.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Reputable people do not mix dogs with wolves, ever. Give me three good reasons for doing this? What characteristics do wolves have, that are desireable, and cannot be found in dogs???

To what standard are they breeding these wolf-dogs to? And for what type of work? What type of work can a wolf dog do that cannot be found in current dogs? 

Do these _reputable_ breeders do any type of health screening? I haven't heard that hip scores could be done on wolves, or anything else.

They cannot be vaccinated for rabies, so what should wolf-dog owners do when there are cases of rabies in the area?

What makes for a reputable wolf dog breeder?


----------



## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Davey Benson said:


> *** Inappropriate comment - MOD *** Perhaps insted of checking with a German Shepherd forum, you should check with a Wolf forum.


 
After seeing nearly five pages of members who have said essentially the same thing... I don't feel it was terribly inappropriate. Perhaps I could have worded it better, but none the less.


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

selzer said:


> *Reputable people do not mix dogs with wolves, ever*. Give me three good reasons for doing this? What characteristics do wolves have, that are desireable, and cannot be found in dogs???
> 
> 
> To what standard are they breeding these wolf-dogs to? And for what type of work? What type of work can a wolf dog do that cannot be found in current dogs?
> ...


THEY CAN be vaccinated for rabies, the rabies vaccine not working on them is a MYTH, they are the same species. And as far as hip scores go, wolves do not have problems with hip dysplasia or joint problems, they grow and mature MUCH slower than Domestic Dogs. You are stuck in the gsd mind set. You do not have to breed a dog to do a specific job. Maybe you should go visit a reputable wolfdog breeder, there are Plenty in Ohio where you live. They are completely legal in your state.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

seganfro said:


> And as far as hip scores go, wolves do not have problems with hip dysplasia or joint problems,


This is interesting information. What percentage have been x-rayed, and what are their average scores? At what age are they generally x-rayed & certified? Do breeders of wolves & wolf-dog mixes usually prefer PennHip or OFA?


----------



## hollysmommy (Dec 3, 2010)

i am thankful for everyones oppinions but why in gods name does everyone (mostly) have to be SO **** RUDE? i DID NOT breed them someone ELSE did. so dont ridicule me i am very good with animals and i knew i could handle it just wanted to see what everyone thought, i do not think i know everything and all the advice everyone is giving me im listening to and learning from. thank you very much to the person saying i wasnt listening and will do as i please, if i was doing as i please i would not be on here asking. obviously i know people lie, because the two gsd's i had before my love holly were not purebred, so i do not know how much wolf she actually is, i will be getting the whole dna backround check to see how much in about a month. when someone is on here ASKING A QUESTION i dont think its right for people to be rude, if you dont know the answer or just want to be rude simply do not comment on their thread, stay out of it, to the people actually giving me advice and their oppinions THANK YOU, as she gets older i will keep you updated, as for now were just trying to potty train her.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

seganfro said:


> THEY CAN be vaccinated for rabies, the rabies vaccine not working on them is a MYTH, they are the same species.


Its not an issue about being unable to be vaccinated for rabies, but that the rabies vaccine has not be approved to work in wolves. And state laws require rabies vaccinations, so you're just kind of stuck. You can get the rabies vaccination done on a wolfdog, but if you have problems and the state becomes involved they WILL take the animal and put it down to necropsy the brain. There have been no studies proving efficacy of the vaccine in wolves.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Yep - what Lin said - a wolf or wolf-dog mix (or whatever the term) bites, the animal is going to be put down and their head cut off and sent to the lab. 

I think the idea of going to a forum, or contacting someone like Wolf Park to ask them for GOOD resources (and not a forum of macho and macha idiots with wolves) would probably be your best bet. Most people here would NOT put a wolf mix of high content in with their dogs so it will be difficult to get info on that from them. http://www.wolfpark.org/

A smart lady who used to post here, and who is a biologist would say "People think that what they have is a wolf because it looks wolfy based on what they've seen where? In real life - or in TV and movies? And those animals in TV and movies are not wolves, but Malamute mixes, etc." 

I think the posters who suggested undoing the decision were not being rude or impolite but truthful and honest as to what they would do and there is nothing wrong with that. You will get feedback and sometimes it will not be what you are looking for, but that doesn't mean it is not good feedback.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> A smart lady who used to post here, and who is a biologist would say "People think that what they have is a wolf because it looks wolfy based on what they've seen where? In real life - or in TV and movies? And those animals in TV and movies are not wolves, but Malamute mixes, etc."


Definitely. To me, Beowulf for example doesn't look wolfy. On the wolf park site they have an article on identification of wolf mixes, and I don't think Beowulf looks wolf. 

I noticed last night when I posted the link that some of their articles wouldn't open, so they may be updating the website.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

seganfro said:


> THEY CAN be vaccinated for rabies, the rabies vaccine not working on them is a MYTH, they are the same species. And as far as hip scores go, wolves do not have problems with hip dysplasia or joint problems, they grow and mature MUCH slower than Domestic Dogs. You are stuck in the gsd mind set. You do not have to breed a dog to do a specific job. Maybe you should go visit a reputable wolfdog breeder, there are Plenty in Ohio where you live. They are completely legal in your state.


Everything is legal in Ohio. They may as well make meth and pot legal in Ashtabula County, it would make no difference whatsoever. 

What is legal, and what is good, are two different things. It is legal to mix a yorkie with a Great Dane, but would that really be a good thing? 

They are not the same species. Wolves Genis is Canis the SPECIES is Lupus. Where dogs' Species is Domesticus. This is mixing species. 

Wolves are wild animals. They belong in the wild. Dogs were domesticated thousands of years ago. Wild animals are generally afraid of humans and shy away from them -- safer for the, safer for us. When we feed and try to make wild animals into pets, we are encouraging a wild animal to lose that distance between humans. 

So we can live with our buffalo in our living room, or we can play with tigers. But they are STILL wild animals, driver by instincts that are much more pronounced than our domesticated animals. 

What a wolf will interject into a dog line is incredibly high prey drive, high pack drive, shyness, stamina, and independence. If we want more of any of these in our dogs, we should pick dogs that have more of the desired trait, not mix them. None of these traits are likely to do well as pets. 

So it is a stupid move. And no, I am not attacking the op here, but the people that breed them. 

The op asked questions, got answers, did not like them, and said what a nature lover and wild animal tamer she is, and knows what she is doing, thus the comments that she is going to do what she wants and knows it all. 

I still say there are no reputable wolf-dog breeders. My question was not answered, no one said WHY they would want to put them together. tell me what you hope to achieve. Good watch dog --- eh! Good pet/companion -- not really, not enough of a litter will be good pets to justify breeding them. Discouraging herds of deer from living in suburban areas -- maybe that would work.


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

selzer:


> Everything is legal in Ohio


I am thinking MO and Ohio are very similar. Wolfdog nothing....when I moved in to my neighborhood,right in town,there were two wolves down the street. One got away and animal control helped catch it and returned it. I love my town. We are overrun with those deer too!


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> very cute puppy, not sure he looks 'wolfy' to me other than his coloring at this point.
> 
> I wouldn't own a high content wolf, did you watch Fatal Attractions where a lady raised wolves and they ended up killing her


 
That woman had a pack of wolf mixes. They got physical with one of her friends one day and after it happened she got scared of them and stopped spending alot of time with them. She stopped cleaning their area and stopped giving them fresh water because she was terrified of them. When she finally did enter their pen again her actions and emotions set the wolf mixes off and they killed her.

There is a difference between a pack of wolf mixes and just one wolf mix.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

selzer said:


> What is legal, and what is good, are two different things. It is legal to mix a yorkie with a Great Dane, but would that really be a good thing?


C'mon, I'm sure some people would LOVE to have a Great Dorkie!  

Wolf hybrids certainly have their uses. For starters, they're a great testosterone substitute for people who are deficient in the real stuff.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

I love wild animals. I think wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears, tree frogs, etc. are magnificent and beautiful-- in the wild. Putting _any_ animal in an environment that is unlike its natural habitat and expecting it to adapt & thrive seems rather disrespectful, unkind and unrealistic. JMO.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

selzer said:


> It is legal to mix a yorkie with a Great Dane, but would that really be a good thing?





Dogaroo said:


> C'mon, I'm sure some people would LOVE to have a Great Dorkie!


Oh, wait.... Would a Great Dane/Terrier cross be a "Great Derriere?" I might actually be interested-- unless, of course, "great" in this context means "large."


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

seganfro said:


> You do not have to breed a dog to do a specific job.


That's true and most don't unless you count pet as a job. 

But what is it that makes people want to own a wolfhybrid rather than say a malamute? (which is pretty wolflike in it's own right) Usually people have a reason for purposely mixing breeds. (in this case species) 

Is it because they want a dog that looks like a wolf or do they want a wolf that's more domesticated? Not judging, just curious.


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

selzer said:


> Everything is legal in Ohio. They may as well make meth and pot legal in Ashtabula County, it would make no difference whatsoever.
> 
> What is legal, and what is good, are two different things. It is legal to mix a yorkie with a Great Dane, but would that really be a good thing?
> 
> ...


The correct terms is Canis familiaris for domestic dogs and Canis lupus for pure wolves. Dogs and wolves are able to breed because they are intraspecific, which in term means they are variations are the same species. This we can agree on, There is no reason why the average person would need or want a HIGH content wolf dog. My wolfdog is mid-content and I would not want anymore, as far as pet/companion, My wolfdog is MORE loyal to me than my gsd. this is my experience.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

selzer said:


> This is just my opinion, to which I am entitled: mixing wolves and dogs is stupid and dangerous, and it really should be criminal.


In many (most) areas it is illegal to own them. That doesn't make them illegal to breed,, but once the pups are here there isn't much you can legally do with them. 
I only bring it up because, while **** fighting is illegal, the breeding and the birds themselves are NOT. So I know many people who still sell fighting cocks for several hundred if not a thousand dollars. All perfectly legal as long as the birds aren't fighting. (I know somewhere along the lines the birds fight, but I guess it's a case of "only illegal if you get caught" the breeding and selling is all fine)


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

Dogaroo said:


> This is interesting information. What percentage have been x-rayed, and what are their average scores? At what age are they generally x-rayed & certified? Do breeders of wolves & wolf-dog mixes usually prefer PennHip or OFA?


Good breeders will use OFA certified shepherds, mixed with their wolves, not too sure of the percentage x-rayed. There was actually a study that took place a few years ago where biologist raised and studied wolves from cubs to 4 years old. Some of them were x-rayed and thats is how they found out that they were not prone to hip dysplasia, because their bodies dont fully mature until the age of 4.


----------



## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

I think aside from the ethical side of owning a wolf mix, I think its going to be a very difficult ride seeing as the op has another 7 month old puppy. That's alot of work for any person. Another puppy in my house when Rio was 7 months would have drove me crazy, especially a puppy who will need such a huge amount of work to make it socially safe. Its either a very brave or very crazy thing to do


----------



## robertm (Apr 20, 2011)

First, you asked if anyone knew anything about wolves.

Second, you re-interpreted your original question to see how GSD and wolves interacted.

Now, you re-interpret your original question to see what we think.

At every turn what you received were honest and earnest feedback. Most of us hate this idea. If I were standing in the middle of a road with an car coming I would rather someone be a little on the rude side to tell me to get out of the way than sugarcoat it and let me get hit.

Even if you didn't pay, which I am betting you did, you are encouraging breeding that should not be done for this particular reason. I read through one of the sites that was linked in this thread and even the wolf lover who wrote it re-affirmed that wolves are not pets. What you have by your account is more wolf than dog.

Being good with animals scares me a bit. How are you with wolves and why in the world would you want to own one?



hollysmommy said:


> i am thankful for everyones oppinions but why in gods name does everyone (mostly) have to be SO **** RUDE? i DID NOT breed them someone ELSE did. so dont ridicule me i am very good with animals and i knew i could handle it just wanted to see what everyone thought, i do not think i know everything and all the advice everyone is giving me im listening to and learning from. thank you very much to the person saying i wasnt listening and will do as i please, if i was doing as i please i would not be on here asking. obviously i know people lie, because the two gsd's i had before my love holly were not purebred, so i do not know how much wolf she actually is, i will be getting the whole dna backround check to see how much in about a month. when someone is on here ASKING A QUESTION i dont think its right for people to be rude, if you dont know the answer or just want to be rude simply do not comment on their thread, stay out of it, to the people actually giving me advice and their oppinions THANK YOU, as she gets older i will keep you updated, as for now were just trying to potty train her.


----------



## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Anyone who assumes their wolf dog "will be fine" doesn't know anything about dogs. You can't even guarantee a domesticated dog will be fine. All animals are different and you never know what you're going to get. Assuming your high content wolf dog "will be fine" is incredibly naive.

The fact that you're doing this when you already have another puppy at home makes me just shake my head. Now you're risking the life of your GSD puppy. That wolf dog is going to grow up to be much bigger, stronger and meaner than your GSD. If they ever get in a fight, there's a good chance your GSD will get severely hurt or worse. 

I love wolves, they are by far my favorite animal, but they should not be crossed with dogs, ever! There's simply no reason to do such a thing, it's just dumb! It should be illegal everywhere in US and Canada, and that should include breeding them and owning them. Hybrids or wolf dogs aren't good for either species, wolves or dogs, and they're definitely not good for people. They are a huge liability and don't provide anything a regular dog can't.

It's such a shame humans continue to screw with nature.


----------



## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

At one time I was interested in getting a wolfdog. But when I did my research I found that they really could be unpredictable and required WAY more time and expense than I was prepared to invest. I surfed around some more this morning and found these sites.

I found this forum. I didn't find it to be full of macho people bragging about their big, bad wolves so much as it was full of people very much like us. They advocate responsible ownership. They want people who can and will invest the necessary time and money. They are big proponents of training (which apparently can be done- some of the stores of stay, down and leave it were impressive) and socialization and understanding the breed. 

Wolf Dog Forum


This also seems like a good place to begin. It talks about some of the special needs of the animal- from containment needs, socialization, exercise, and nutrition needs. 

Wolfdogs


From what I read no one is breeding 100% wild wolves to domesticated dogs anymore so the fact that you were told your pup's sire is 100% wolf is probably false. The people who are knowledgeable are saying that the wolfdogs bred today are the products of other wolfdogs and you get high content from breeding to high content. 

Good Luck to you with your puppy. I personally think he looks like he could be part wold looking at some of the pics I spent the morning looking at. He will require A LOT of work. Much more so than the average dog. At the same time you still have to continue to do all of the other work for your GSD pup. You are going to be SUPER busy. IF you think you can handle it and do right by both pups then I say more power to you. But please don't bite of more than you can chew and end up failing both dogs. 

Again- I wish you nothing but the best and would love to see pics as he grows!


----------



## ed1911 (Jan 19, 2011)

Ive owned dogs for over 30 years and GSDs for 20 years. 8 years ago my wife got a wolfdog/hybrid. The parents were some of the largest dogs Ive ever seen and they were absolutly beautiful. We worked with the puppy several months along with our GSD and got nowhere. They are very difficult fearful animals, when you appoach them the lower their head and kind of pace side to side. He also used to howel at feeding time. I know everyone thinks they can bond with the animal and eventually win it over as we thought but some animals are better left alone. I returned the dog to the breeder. I know this probably isnt what you wanted to hear but it was my experience. I wouldent advise anyone looking for a family pet to bring one into their home. I hope this helps your decision.


----------



## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

Sorry to the OP for hijacking your thread. I gave it some time before I replied so the focus didn't shift from you to me. Sorry again.



martemchik said:


> Question on Beowolf...how big is he? Just wondering as I'm pretty sure all species of wolves are large and with two wolves and a malamute in there you'd think he'd be much bigger than the husky he's next to. Not denying he might have wolf in him, I'm just interested.


I don't think Beowulf is going to be huge, but he's probably going to be bigger than both of our dogs. His father was supposedly 195 lbs, but I'm sure he was either fat or a freak of nature, or even a miscalculation or bad guesstimate. Haha. Maybe his mother was small due to the husky in her, and Beowulf might be more like her instead of his dad. I don't want him to be huge, and I'm glad he's not going to be. I wanted a dog that would be about the same size as our other 2. Beowulf last weighed in at 62 lbs at 8 or 9 months, but he's fluffier and taller (super long legs!) than Nara and Paw Paw. He's 11 months old now and will continue to grow for at least another 13 months. Not sure that, if he does actually have wolf in him, whether he will grow beyond 2 years old, whereas both dogs stopped at 2 (they are both 3 years old now).

As for Paw Paw, he's actually big for a husky. People ask me if he's a malamute all of the time, but he's nowhere near that size. He's 64 lbs, so slightly over the max end of the husky standard (60 lbs), but he's all muscle and is not fat at all. The only other huskies I've seen that are bigger than Paw Paw are overweight and/or older/less active huskies. Paw Paw looks as big as Nara, so people assume she's small for a GSD, but she's big for a female as well. She is 25.5" and 88 lbs. Not sure on the height for Beowulf and Paw Paw, but Paw Paw is about an inch shorter than Nara, and his fur makes him look equally as tall, and Beowulf is visibly taller than Nara and Paw Paw. Hope that helps. Thanks for asking!


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

Just reassure us that you're not going to feed her dog food. She will need a species appropriate, raw diet in order to remain healthy & reach her full potential. A raw diet won't hurt the part of her that is dog, and it probably wouldn't hurt your GSD, either. 

Both your puppies are female, right?


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

hollysmommy said:


> i never said for sure, but thats what they had told me, both parents were there, very huge and could tell they were wolves, but VERY SWEET, my husband is a marine and they do intense training on base for the coyotes, (the ones that get hurt that cannot be returned to the wild), german shepherds, and different kinds of dogs, the coyotes are playfull and arent mean at all to humans, so im pretty sure my puppy will be fine, ive taken in "wild" animals since i was 7 years old, ive had macaws that have bitten that i had to socialize, baby squirls, wild cats, and wild dogs.i know what ive gotten myself into. thanks for your oppinions though..


:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Wild animals are WILD ANIMALS, not pets. There's a reason 'dogs' are different from wolves, and in a good way. Hopefully you didn't actually PAY for a wolf to support their breeding program. 

To me, and this is just me, it's as irresponsible FOR THE HYBRIDS to be put into homes and expect them to be perfect pets as they age. Be like expecting the same from a tiger, or lion, or bear (oh my  ). And if there's a problem, it's the wolf that will die. Love the *liability issues* for us if we own a hybrid and it bites someone!

Not worth the chance for me... not fair to the pup when it just does what is NATURAL..

Information on Wolfdog Hybrid Wolf Dog Mix



> However, the suitability of the hybrid wolf dog as a pet is just one of the many misconceptions about wolfdogs today. Most of what the general public knows about the hybrid wolf dog comes from literature, news articles and unfortunate publicized incidents, and, there has been little scientific investigation to support or disprove subsequent misconceptions. One thing is certain however, a wolfdog is not necessarily a suitable pet for just anyone, and households with young children should especially think twice about their decision to bring a wolf dog into their home. Although many owners have had success with wolfdogs as pets, in general, they can seldom be compared to your standard everyday dog.


Dangerous Dog Alert: Wolf Hybrids More Likely To Bite



> The population of wolf hybrid dogs has increased significantly in recent years, with experts estimating that over one million of the pets are living in the United States currently. But are wolf hybrids safe? Many think that the wolf-dog mixes are more prone to dog bites, dog attacks, and dog maulings than other types of more domesticated animals.
> 
> Research done on wolf hybrids have concluded that no amount of socialization or training may be sufficient to make all of wolf hybrids safe to keep as pets. While some wolf hybrids are docile and non-aggressive, a higher percentage of wolf hybrids are likely to be dangerous and prone to attack humans and other animals. In fact, dog bite statistics show that wolf-dogs hold the sixth position in dog bite fatalities by breed.
> 
> Why are wolf hybrids gaining popularity despite their dangers? Many think that people are drawn to their novelty and to their majesty. However, many states are banning the animals in an effort to control dog bite rates and keep residents safe from aggressive animals. While wild wolves almost never attack humans, wolf-dog hybrids kill an estimated one dozen people each decade.


Wolf hybrid behavior by Animal behavior dog bite expert for attorneys



> Severe and fatal atacks on people by wolf hybrids have increased dramatically in recent years. Understandably, this has no doubt happened as a result of the hybrid's increasing popularity as a pet. As a result, not surprisingly, there has been a marked increase in civil litigation involving personal injury damages inflicted by these animals.


----------



## hollysmommy (Dec 3, 2010)

after reading all of this feed-back we got rid of our High Content Wolf Hybrid and gave it back to the owner, the dog didnt get along with our GSD "Holly" at all. and it howled constantly anytime it wanted anything, including going outside and ESPECIALLY for food. It was driving my husband absolutely insane. The pup was nearly impossible to get to sit still. And training it did nothing. Honestly i think it was more Wolf than anything else. Just by its mannerisms. I guess i just thought it would be a good idea, since the dog was so gorgeous, and its parents where jaw dropping pretty. 

Thanks for the all the uh...Negative, feedback. =] I think well just stick with our GSD for now.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

hollysmommy said:


> after reading all of this feed-back we got rid of our High Content Wolf Hybrid and gave it back to the owner, the dog didnt get along with our GSD "Holly" at all. and it howled constantly anytime it wanted anything, including going outside and ESPECIALLY for food. It was driving my husband absolutely insane. The pup was nearly impossible to get to sit still. And training it did nothing. Honestly i think it was more Wolf than anything else. Just by its mannerisms. I guess i just thought it would be a good idea, since the dog was so gorgeous, and its parents where jaw dropping pretty.
> 
> Thanks for the all the uh...Negative, feedback. =] I think well just stick with our GSD for now.


 I hope you stick around here so we can watch Holly grow up. I'm honoured to share my first name with such a beautiful dog.  

I only wish more people had the maturity & strength of character to set their egos aside & realize when they've gotten a bit more than they were prepared to deal with. Your willingness to be educated, even when the information you receive isn't exactly what you wanted to hear, tells me that Holly is in very good hands. Lucky girl.


----------



## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

hollysmommy said:


> after reading all of this feed-back we got rid of our High Content Wolf Hybrid and gave it back to the owner, the dog didnt get along with our GSD "Holly" at all. and it howled constantly anytime it wanted anything, including going outside and ESPECIALLY for food. It was driving my husband absolutely insane. The pup was nearly impossible to get to sit still. And training it did nothing. Honestly i think it was more Wolf than anything else. Just by its mannerisms. I guess i just thought it would be a good idea, since the dog was so gorgeous, and its parents where jaw dropping pretty.
> 
> Thanks for the all the uh...Negative, feedback. =] I think well just stick with our GSD for now.


Thanks for being a responsible pet owner.


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

That is probably for the best! Keeping a wolfdog would be an enormous responsibility and liability. More than any dog owner could probably imagine- especially a high content mix like that. Nobody was trying to make you feel bad either. Wolf dogs are beautiful, mysterious creatures, but probably not good pets at all according to most articles on them. Best of luck with your GSD pup. I would love to see pictures of her!


----------



## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree with this point.... wolves are georgous! 

I have a wolf calendar, and every month I get to see a different one in it's own natural environment.  

Being the owner of livestock (cattle, sheep, goats, chickens) one could only guess about my feelings of seeing a wolf/wolfhybred running loose around my critters.  So, I guess I have a love/hate relationship with them.  

I bet you will find a playmate for holly that will have much of the same look you desire, and yet a much more acceptable personality.


----------



## robertm (Apr 20, 2011)

PupperLove said:


> That is probably for the best! Keeping a wolfdog would be an enormous responsibility and liability. More than any dog owner could probably imagine- especially a high content mix like that. Nobody was trying to make you feel bad either. Wolf dogs are beautiful, mysterious creatures, but probably not good pets at all according to most articles on them. Best of luck with your GSD pup. I would love to see pictures of her!


 
I bet it is hard for any big dog lover not to love wolves on some level. I love watching documentaries on them.

I am glad this worked out the way it did. Hopefully that breeder will have no reason to continue (wishful thinking).


----------



## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

First, let me say that I am glad the Op returned the puppy if she felt she was in over her head. That is being responsible. 

Second, I have to say, I am more than a little disappointed by many of the negative and prejudicial comments coming from people who deeply love and own a breed that is very much treated the same way by much of the general public. How many of us have heard from total strangers that are dogs are dangerous and will one day turn on us? That they can't be trusted? I am sure there are very few of us that haven't gotten some sort of negative comment from some uninformed stranger about how aggressive and dangerous GSDs are. And of course the difficulty in finding housing if you own one speaks volumes about the public's perception of them as well as the number of careless and irresponsible owners that are out there. 

After spending over an hour reading that forum this morning, I learned that while they DO require considerable more work, for the person who is willing to educate his or herself, spend the money on proper containment and be responsible - 100% of the time- they can and do make good pets for those people. Just like our wonderful GSDs. How many times have we lamented over hearing a story about the bad behavior of a GSD that is the direct result of an irresponsible owner and now a black mark has been struck against the entire breed? And I think that has what has happened in many cases with the wolfdogs. People get them to be cool but do NOT do the research, extensive training and socialization that they require and something goes wrong and it is a black mark against them all. There really were some great stories about some VERY well behaved dogs on that forum but people admitted they worked very hard to achieve that. It sounds a lot like our breed but with a lot more work required. 

And MLR, that link you posted about wolf dogs being the 6th highest dog likely to bite, did you see which purebred it stated were the MOST likely to bite?




> Mixed breeds and not pure bred dogs are the type of dog most often involved in inflicting bites to people. The pure-bred dogs most often involved are German Shepherds and Chow chows.


We all know that it is the small dogs that have the highest incidence of biting. Plus, that website was from an attorney, I have little doubt, it put those "statistics" out there to encourage people to sue, so I will take it with a grain of salt.

Overall, I think wolfdogs are just like any other dog in that a person needs to do their research before hand, be sure they are prepared for the challenge, and overall BE RESPONSIBLE. If they can't or are not willing then leave the breed alone, especially since it is an extremely high maintenance breed.


ETA: I just saw where this was posted on the link as well, and considering people on this forums strong feelings about speutering I would like to know their opinions on it. I haven't looked up any statistics to verify it but I am curious to see what you guys think.




> Canines not spayed or neutered are three times more likely to bite than sterilized ones.


----------



## susee (Apr 18, 2011)

Did you get the 60 Minutes story a few years ago in US, about the guy who was living as Wolf in his enclosure, even actually eating raw meat as well.


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> At one time I was interested in getting a wolfdog. But when I did my research I found that they really could be unpredictable and required WAY more time and expense than I was prepared to invest. I surfed around some more this morning and found these sites.
> 
> I found this forum. I didn't find it to be full of macho people bragging about their big, bad wolves so much as it was full of people very much like us. They advocate responsible ownership. They want people who can and will invest the necessary time and money. They are big proponents of training (which apparently can be done- some of the stores of stay, down and leave it were impressive) and socialization and understanding the breed.
> 
> ...


 
I am an active member on the WOLFDOG FORUM as well, and that is where we did all my research before purchasing ours. That forum contains all the information and facts you need on these critters, it is an absolutley wonderful forum. It is full of similar people here, many of them are gsd owners as well.


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

susee said:


> Did you get the 60 Minutes story a few years ago in US, about the guy who was living as Wolf in his enclosure, even actually eating raw meat as well.


I did see that. That man had a few screws loose in that head for sure


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Uhg, I always mix cats and dogs when I do the genus/species thing. I KNOW it is not Felis familiaris, but last night I did not think about them both before writing canus domesticus. 

So it is Canus Familiaris and Felis Domesticus. Whatever, it is still mixing species. 

I am glad that the op decided to pass on this wolf mix. 

Just because we love a breed of dog that some people feel are dangerous, does not mean we should just keep our opinions to ourselves when people are asking questions about maybe adopting a bear cub or a wolf or a wolf-mix. 

I am particularly against mixing wolves to GSDs because though I love the breed, there are many within it with problems with shyness. Shyness that can lead to fear-biting. And wolves will cause a whole lot more shyness. If someone toled me a dog was 1/8 wolf, what might they expect. I would say a dog likely to be shy, hard to train, independent, high prey drive and hard to contain. 

While I am not against hunting them, I too love wolves and love to see them in their natural habitats -- on the TV set. I love seeing the pups. But I would never own one or support any of the "reputable" breeders of them.


----------



## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

Dharma - I understand what you're saying, but you can't compare a GSD to a wolf-dog. While GSD's might be feared by many people out there, they are still domesticated dogs. A wolf is a wild animal, period! It is not like any other dog, not even close. A wolf-dog is partly wild and partly domesticated. That's a huge difference between a GSD, Rottweiler, pitbull, etc. The latter are all domesticated animals, wolf-dogs aren't, at least not fully. That fact alone makes a huge difference.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

shaner said:


> Dharma - I understand what you're saying, but you can't compare a GSD to a wolf-dog. While GSD's might be feared by many people out there, they are still domesticated dogs. A wolf is a wild animal, period! It is not like any other dog, not even close. A wolf-dog is partly wild and partly domesticated. That's a huge difference between a GSD, Rottweiler, pitbull, etc. The latter are all domesticated animals, wolf-dogs aren't, at least not fully. That fact alone makes a huge difference.


Ditto, its like comparing a raccoon or fox to a cat as a pet.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> Uhg, I always mix cats and dogs when I do the genus/species thing. I KNOW it is not Felis familiaris, but last night I did not think about them both before writing canus domesticus.
> 
> So it is Canus Familiaris and Felis Domesticus. Whatever, it is still mixing species.



Actually dogs are now classified as Canis* lupus* familiaris, as they are now considered to be a _subspecies_ of the wolf rather than a separate species!


The problem with wolf-dogs is wolves are a wild animal. Dogs have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years. Despite the fact that they are considered a subspecies, dogs and wolves have many differences which affect how they relate to humans. Dogs have been bred since the beginning (whether intentionally or not) to not be fearful or aggressive towards humans; wolves do not have this. Dogs also develop differently than wolves, and this is part of why it is not possible to socialize wolves completely with humans and human environments. Dogs have a socialization period which extends for a much longer time than wolves, and wolves have a very strong fear period which begins at a much younger age and extends a lot longer than the ones dogs experience as puppies. Dogs retain many juvenile behaviors into adulthood, wolves do not.
A high content wolf-dog is likely to retain some if not all of these traits from the wolf parentage, and so can be a liability to own as well as potentially requiring the same treatment and enclosures as a wolf would need.


----------



## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

shaner said:


> Dharma - I understand what you're saying, but you can't compare a GSD to a wolf-dog. While GSD's might be feared by many people out there, they are still domesticated dogs. A wolf is a wild animal, period! It is not like any other dog, not even close. A wolf-dog is partly wild and partly domesticated. That's a huge difference between a GSD, Rottweiler, pitbull, etc. The latter are all domesticated animals, wolf-dogs aren't, at least not fully. That fact alone makes a huge difference.



I'm not comparing the actual animals. I am comparing the perceptions of the animals. I am also comparing the responsibilities and the work the owners are prepared to put into owning one. You are correct when you say there is a HUGE difference. Wolfdogs require a ton more work, more work than I would want to invest. BUT there are people out there that are doing it and apparently doing it right. And as long as there are they should be allowed to own the breed they love- just like with GSDs, rotties, pitts, etc.


----------



## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

I wish people would explore how DNA works before they try to insist their dog is 50% something or 75% something else. He exactly does one assign a percentage to a certain genetic characteristic? 

I also wish they would explore how a wolf works before attempting to mix that into a domestic dog. What characteristics does a wolf have that our domestic breeds don't? The part that hates you and wants nothing to do with you? The part that has no desire to please its owner whatsoever, making it impossible to train?


----------



## shaner (Oct 17, 2010)

DharmasMom said:


> I'm not comparing the actual animals. I am comparing the perceptions of the animals. I am also comparing the responsibilities and the work the owners are prepared to put into owning one. You are correct when you say there is a HUGE difference. Wolfdogs require a ton more work, more work than I would want to invest. BUT there are people out there that are doing it and apparently doing it right. And as long as there are they should be allowed to own the breed they love- just like with GSDs, rotties, pitts, etc.


I strongly disagree, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I simply see absolutely no benefit to breeding a dog and wolf, nor do I see any benefit to owning a wolf-dog rather than just a dog. There's no benefit to the owners of the animal, there's no benefit to the dog species, and there's definitely no benefit to the wolf species, especially if a very high content wolf-dog is out in the wild breeding. That's an absolute disaster for the wolf species.

Wolves are already endangered enough, lets not endanger them further.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I disagree as well. I don't believe wolfdogs should be bred or kept as pets. Those already pets, well there's no choice left for them but more should never be created. And it very much is like discussing raccoons etc. Raccoons, squirrels, and foxes are kept as pets but shouldn't be. 

There are WONDERFUL owners who go the extra mile, for example I know a woman who raised a squirrel that she saved when her dog found it naked in the yard and brought it to her. Her life very much revolves around the needs of the squirrel. But just because there are people out there that go the extra mile to provide for these animals, doesn't mean squirrels should be purposefully bred to be kept in captivity. Same thing as wolfdogs IMO. A wonderful owner isn't a strong enough argument. And there were times I really wanted a wolfdog, and I researched it years ago but changed my mind. Wild animals need to be left in the wild.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

Even my third generation barn kitty/former feral requires a bit more than the average house kitty to keep her happy. Being an indoor cat is her choice, but I've had to make a few minor accommodations: Extra hiding places, more litter boxes, vertical escape routes everywhere, opportunities to hunt her food (have to be really creative with this), real meat/grain free food, etc. (Hmm, so far just stuff most kitties would like to have-- but mine DEMANDS them!) Boarding is out of the question; petsitters are a no go. If I'm gone more than three days, my nephew (the only other person she tolerates-- he's exceptionally good with skittish critters) checks on her food & water & litterboxes; otherwise, I leave extra litterboxes & food dishes & running water & "hidden" food for her & she's on her own for the duration. Sounds neglectful, but it's actually much less traumatic for her that way. 

Greta/Freya (yes, I named both her purrsonalities) has her own "safe zone" where dogs & strangers aren't allowed to intrude, and she can come & go as she pleases. I've had house guests who stayed as long as a week & never saw or heard the cat the whole time they were here. One person even asked me if I was _sure_ I had a cat. She acted like she was growing concerned about my mental health. :crazy:


----------



## mriedel (Apr 18, 2011)

I've been following this thread for a bit and I actually had a question to see if you all thought this was odd or not....I have a relative in Wisconsin who raises malamutes and rescued a dog off the street that "resembled a wolf" as he put it...sure enough after being DNA tested he turned out wolf dog mix...well Joe (my relative) stupidly decided to keep him seeing a's he already had enclosures built for the dogs and kodiak (what he named him) seemed sweet enough...he ended up bonding very well with a few of the younger malimutes including kasha who me and my family adopted and a's soon a's the those dogs were sold he suddenly stopped eating and showed no interest in any kind of attention...after a week of not wanting to eat he passed away Joe was so afraid to stress him out by taking him to the vet that he didn't get him help soon enough...my question is is this normal of a wolfdog to bond so strongly with other dogs enough to become so depressed?


----------



## seganfro (Jan 19, 2011)

mriedel said:


> I've been following this thread for a bit and I actually had a question to see if you all thought this was odd or not....I have a relative in Wisconsin who raises malamutes and rescued a dog off the street that "resembled a wolf" as he put it...sure enough after being DNA tested he turned out wolf dog mix...well Joe (my relative) stupidly decided to keep him seeing a's he already had enclosures built for the dogs and kodiak (what he named him) seemed sweet enough...he ended up bonding very well with a few of the younger malimutes including kasha who me and my family adopted and a's soon a's the those dogs were sold he suddenly stopped eating and showed no interest in any kind of attention...after a week of not wanting to eat he passed away Joe was so afraid to stress him out by taking him to the vet that he didn't get him help soon enough...my question is is this normal of a wolfdog to bond so strongly with other dogs enough to become so depressed?


Yes there have been many cases that when wolfdogs have grown up with one another, and one passes away, they have a "depression" or "grieve" period. Most of them move on, but some of them pass away like you said from not eating nor drinking. It is SO important when one is considering getting a wolfdog to make sure they have a LIFETIME commitment to the animal because they only truly bond with one family.


----------



## robertm (Apr 20, 2011)

DharmasMom said:


> I'm not comparing the actual animals. I am comparing the perceptions of the animals. I am also comparing the responsibilities and the work the owners are prepared to put into owning one. You are correct when you say there is a HUGE difference. Wolfdogs require a ton more work, more work than I would want to invest. BUT there are people out there that are doing it and apparently doing it right. And as long as there are they should be allowed to own the breed they love- just like with GSDs, rotties, pitts, etc.


 
But isn't it better to let wild animals have the perception of being wild animals? Don't they belong... in the wild?


----------



## mriedel (Apr 18, 2011)

yea I figured kodiak had bonded strongly with the others since he was a stray to begin with he probably hadnt had much contact with other dogs. joe described him as extremely shy and since he knew he was part wolf just tried to give him his space. I didnt think it was a very good idea he keep him in the first place simply because he had no idea what kind of temperament he had and what would happen if he got loose.


----------



## Richiegs (Nov 10, 2011)

I thought the DNA of dogs are 100% same as that of wolves.


----------



## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Richiegs said:


> I thought the DNA of dogs are 100% same as that of wolves.


No, it is not. I believe it is something like 2% different.

The behavior of dogs and wolves is quite different, however. Patricia McConnell (highly renowned behaviorist) states (quite accurately, I believe) that dogs are like adolescent wolves. Their constant state of "puppyhood" are what makes them so playful, trainable, willing to please, and most importantly of all, safer.

Wolves are not content or happy living with humans, so the only reason to subject a wolf/wolfdog to living with us is to satisfy our own selfish desires.


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> So it is Canus Familiaris and Felis Domesticus. Whatever, it is still mixing species.
> 
> I am glad that the op decided to pass on this wolf mix.



Actually the domestic dog is now classified as _*Canis Lupus Familiaris*_ as dogs are considered to be a subspecies/domesticated form of the wolf. Not a separate species.

Dogs are only 0.2% different from gray wolves in mitochondrial DNA.




Dogaroo said:


> Even my third generation barn kitty/former feral requires a bit more than the average house kitty to keep her happy.


Was she born inside the house or out? What type of socialization did she have? IMO with feral cats it is more about socialization, feral born cats in my experience are no more "wild" than any other cats IF they are raised and socialized enough as young enough kittens. I had a litter of feral kittens who were most likely feral for many generations (we have a lot of feral cats around here) and they are some of the sweetest cats I know. I found them at 3 weeks old and bottle-fed/raised them. In contrast my other feral rescue who I found at between 6-7 weeks old is slightly more "wild" and older kitten/adult rescues can be difficult or impossible to "tame".


----------



## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

My parents own alot of property the owner of the property directly behind them has 2 wolf mixes. I have no idea of the % but they look like wolves. I will say that I feel bad for them. They are in a huge fence enclosure and pace back & forth all day....they will also do a very sad long howl (or it sounds sad to me at least). The owner told my dad they really don't care about interaction with humans. She will walk them on occasion but really late at night because she does not want them to be seen. Our families have owned the same property for more almost 100 years and my parents would never say anything but it does make them shake their heads.

To answer your question the only thing I know about them is they appear NOT to be good family pets.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We separated our feral mom cat from her kittens at just 4 weeks of age. Hand fed and socialized them from that point on. They are typical kittens.
And cats "should" be domesticated. They are or would be if exposed to humans from day one on. 

It's not like walking around and finding a coyote puppy at 4 weeks and trying to domesticate it. Or a "high content" wolf dog and thinking that because it was raised in the house, it's going to be a good pet.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

My cat piper was born feral at the barn where I kept my horse. The barn owner spent all day catching the litter and then took them to a shelter. The shelter said they would have to be euthanized because they would never make suitable pets. The barn owner brought them back. I spent a few hours catching her and took her home, she was the gentlest cat I've ever had. Met me at the door every day, came when called, loved to fetch, liked her belly scratched and never put a tooth or nail on you. 

Feral animals are still domesticated. As long as they're socialized when kittens they're fine. And there is no need to separate them from the mother early or anything like that.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh these ones were hissing and spitting and the mother _would_ attack you. 
She's now a barn cat and the kittens are tame and in homes already


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have 4 ferals,,I got all of them when they were around 10 days old..The first set of two, mushy, always in your lap, want you to pick them up..The second set of two, same way EXCEPT, they do not particularly care for 'you' to pick them up..

They aren't any different than domestic cats atleast mine aren't..depends on the age I would think


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

My heart cat Leo was born feral and orphaned, he was about 3 weeks old. And I've raised a lot of foster feral kittens. Totally different than a wild animal.


----------



## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

My cat was born feral, rescued at 5 days old... he's just like my late Siamese cat except maybe a little wilder and by wild i mean active. 
feral cats are still cats, they are not wild cats. so it's in their genes to be domesticated. Wolfdogs on the other hand carry at least 25% pure wild genes that seem to dominate the more gentle domestic genes.


----------



## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think trying to own a wolfdog/hybrid is a foolish endeavor for the most part BUT this breed intrigues me:

Saarlooswolfhond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Careful breeding with a goal in mind (distemper immunity) negates some of the issues I have with adding wild stock to a domesticated line. I've done some surface scratching on the breed and I like what I read. Long life (like 15 years on average), genetic predisposition for very healthy animals, extreme intelligence and strong pack bonds. It's been called the dog nerd's breed and that fits me well. I also like how they look, generally any breed that looks wolfish melts my heart. Not that I'll ever get one, too expensive and the headaches associated with anything that has that much in common with a wolf are dealbreakers. I'm not going to play games with the laws dealing with hybrid/wolfdogs, I cannot even think of one of my beloved animals being taken away on a technicality of the law.


----------



## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I know someone who had success with a wolf, however, they are not at all like a dog. If you can watch this show (Netflix streams it), it explains the evolution of dogs in relation to man very well and you will understand how dogs are not one in the same as wild canines, and why. It was actually pretty fascinating. The domestic dog is the only animal known to have evolved to adapt to humans in specific. 
NOVA | Dogs and More Dogs | PBS


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Anyone else ever skip to the end of a very long thread and wonder where it went off track? From wolves on page 1 to cats on the last page.....hmmm?


----------



## Richiegs (Nov 10, 2011)

If dogs are descended from wolves (correct me if I am wrong), I don't understand why wolves can't be domesticated after many generations?


----------



## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

I had two hybrids - we rescued them in California - they were low content mixed with GSD and Malamute. They were good dogs. We worked hard to socialize them. Cotton (my first one - RIP) was much better socialized than Lobo (RIP). I don't think it was the "wolf" in him....he was just a family dog that didn't like strangers. I had a doberman and shepherd growing up that were like that. 

As with any dog, crate train them. And ensure your pup gets proper training. A boot camp might be a good idea. I would advertise to your neighbors or city just in case your local ordinances don't allow for "hybrids". Best to just say they are shepherds.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I have 4 ferals,,I got all of them when they were around 10 days old..The first set of two, mushy, always in your lap, want you to pick them up..The second set of two, same way EXCEPT, they do not particularly care for 'you' to pick them up..
> 
> They aren't any different than domestic cats atleast mine aren't..depends on the age I would think


I think so too. 
I actually trapped two kittens that a mama cat _brought_ me when I worked at the shelter. They were about 8 weeks, they hissed and spit but I wore gloves until they calmed down. After a couple days they came around.

We didn't want to have to wear gloves and what not with our babies, and at 4 weeks they'd begun imitating their mama although they didn't know why. They were so much easier to tame at that age.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

For some reason, something tells me it's very illegal to own a wolfdog (especially 50%!) in California. They don't even allow people to own ferrets - why would a wolf or wolf dog be legal? Not sure if that's been brought up already, but just saying.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Richiegs said:


> If dogs are descended from wolves (correct me if I am wrong), I don't understand why wolves can't be domesticated after many generations?


They can be, but their features will likely change - making them dogs. Not wolves. 

Have you seen the study that was conducted on domesticating silver foxes? Over time, as they got more and more used to humans, their physical features began to change. Floppy ears, shorter tails, more white on the fur, etc. 

Fox Domestication


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Konotashi said:


> For some reason, something tells me it's very illegal to own a wolfdog (especially 50%!) in California. They don't even allow people to own ferrets - why would a wolf or wolf dog be legal? Not sure if that's been brought up already, but just saying.



NWA, Legislative Issues - State Regulations
HybridLaw.com - State laws regarding Hybrid cats, wolves, dogs and other animals

CALIFORNIA
Ownership of pure wolves is illegal except by the few people qualifying for a valid permit from Fish and Game. Among the criteria for such a permit are rigid requirements for facilities and experience in raising such animals, along with approval of the USDA. "Any F1 (first) generation wolf hybrid whelped on or before February 4, 1988 may be possessed under permit from the department. No state permit is required to possess the progeny of F1 generation wolf hybrids, but cities and counties may prohibit possession or require a permit."


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Konotashi said:


> For some reason, something tells me it's very illegal to own a wolfdog (especially 50%!) in California. They don't even allow people to own ferrets - why would a wolf or wolf dog be legal? Not sure if that's been brought up already, but just saying.


Taken from the Wolfdogalliance.org " CALIFORNIA

Ownership of pure wolves is illegal except by the few people qualifying for a valid permit from Fish and Game. Among the criteria for such a permit are rigid requirements for facilities and experience in raising such animals, along with approval of the USDA. "Any F1 (first) generation wolf hybrid whelped on or before February 4, 1988 may be possessed under permit from the department. No state permit is required to possess the progeny of F1 generation wolf hybrids, but cities and counties may prohibit possession or require a permit."


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

qbchottu said:


> NWA, Legislative Issues - State Regulations
> HybridLaw.com - State laws regarding Hybrid cats, wolves, dogs and other animals
> 
> CALIFORNIA
> Ownership of pure wolves is illegal except by the few people qualifying for a valid permit from Fish and Game. Among the criteria for such a permit are rigid requirements for facilities and experience in raising such animals, along with approval of the USDA. "Any F1 (first) generation wolf hybrid whelped on or before February 4, 1988 may be possessed under permit from the department. No state permit is required to possess the progeny of F1 generation wolf hybrids, but cities and counties may prohibit possession or require a permit."


LOL We posted at the same time!


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> LOL We posted at the same time!


haha comment twins


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

msvette2u said:


> Oh these ones were hissing and spitting and the mother _would_ attack you.


Yeah my _3 week old_ feral rescues were hissing and spitting when I came near the nest in the garden to get them. That stopped pretty much as soon as I offered them formula.


----------



## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Richiegs said:


> If dogs are descended from wolves (correct me if I am wrong), I don't understand why wolves can't be domesticated after many generations?


The domestic dog companion, as we know it today, is the product of *thousands* of years of breeding in desired traits and breeding out undesireable ones. So yes, it can be done, but it takes generations upon generations to do so. There is an evolutionary factor in genetics. Again, watch the Nova special on the evolution of the domestic dog, which explains how they think it was done through history. It is very interesting. An unusual evolution that they have found is that domestic dogs that are bonded to people secrete the same hormone now that humans do, that hormone they have linked to maternal instinct. Both owners of dogs and dogs themselves now secrete this hormone when they are attached to one another. It is the only species known to do this. This is not found in the wolf, coyote or foxes. They did experiments on interaction. The chimpanzee, supposedly the closest to our own species, did not interact with focus when food was placed under three bowls and a human pointed. It picked up bowls randomly. Wolves raised from pups did the same and did not interact. However, domestic dogs did, were in tune to the human, and went to what a human pointed to.


----------



## matthewm11 (Oct 18, 2011)

Wolf hybrids are bad ideas IMO. All the traits I love about dogs- their loyalty, affection, obedience and love of human company was the result of thousands of years of selectively breeding for these traits. Wolves and most wolf hybrids lack these traits and generally are skittish, independent, hard to obedience train and not especially affectionate. They are also less predictable with higher prey drives. I don't know that a high % wolf hybrid could ever be truly content to live in captivity, and I think it is cruel to keep wild animals cooped up and denying them their wild intincts to hunt, migrate and live in packs. Dogs, on the other hand (most breeds anyway, including GSDs) are happiest in the company of humans.

Its also worth noting that most researchers today do not think dogs are descended from modern gray wolves, but that dogs and gray wolves split from a shared ancestor and that dogs were scavengers before they were domesticated. Therefore the argument that dogs are simply tame wolves is not a valid defense in favor of keeping wolf hybrids as pets


----------



## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

We had a wolf/GSD hybrid when I was a child. From the things I remember, I wouldn't recommend one as a pet for many reasons.
He was gorgeous and he didn't have such a high wolf ratio as yours, but he scared the heck out of my mom all the time with his deep deeeep stare. He didn't bark, but when he was mad he bared his teeth and nobody NOBODY better dared go anywhere near him while he was eating or you'll feel this menacing aura. 
He was lovable and sweet with all of us in the family, even us little kids, but anyone from outside... oh dear! Not pretty!! He also never got along with other dogs, he fought a Boxer we had, it was horrible, we had to rehome the sweet Boxer. We had him and only him til he passed of old age.

So yeah, no. I would say having a wolf/dog hybrid as a pet is not a good idea.


----------



## 1rockyracoon1 (May 27, 2010)

Does anyone know if they still have the wolf hybrid because if they do i was wondering how it was going i was going to say when i thought it was a newer thread i could porbably get them in contact with a friend of mine that has had wolf hybrids for years and could probably help with any propblems or questions. and i have many long talks with him about them and he constantly says they are in no way dogs and that they arent pets. he said they know they are stronger than you and faster and if they decide they want to or dont want to do something its just going to be what they want.


----------



## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I wanted to add, he did chase and bite people who weren't part of the family. He even tried to go after a kid, friend of one of my brothers. He went out to the backyard, thinking the "dog" wouldn't bite him or anything (my parents didn't even see he was here, he was there with my brother) and without a warning our wolf/dog ran after him. The boy had to climb the swings we have to get on the roof and escape, and he still got him by the pants legs. Poor boy escaped unharmed, but scared to death.

He also bit another a mail man through the fence, and he almost bit a lot more people, but luckily someone was there to stop him.


----------



## prophecy (May 29, 2008)

hollysmommy said:


> we still have our 7 month old german shepherd, holly, we just got a puppy tonight, father was 100% wolf, and the mother was 50%wolf/50%german shepherd, i was just wondering if anyone on here had any type of wolf, along with their german shepherds, or if anyone knew anything about wolfs in general. i dont really know much about the breed but she is 5 weeks old which is good for a wolf because everything ive read online says to separate wold puppies from the mother at two weeks, but that is all i know. anything will help my knowledge thanks!


Congrats.You have a high content wolfdog pup.I hope you are ready for this.

Wolfdogs are NOT like domestic dogs.They have a lot of ''differances''.

Wolfdogs mature differantly.They are not sexually mature until 2yrs or more.HC males are only fertile some parts of the year and higher content females will only get one heat a year(early spring).They go through a behavioural change known as WWS or winter wolf syndrome around the mating season.They shed once a year.They require HIGH quality food and do not do well on grains.

They tend to be more dominant toward humans at maturity.They will not obey commands like a domestic dog,they will obey you if they feel like it.They take a firm fair leader.They are diggers,chewer and escape artists.
They tend to have high prey drive,can be aloof toward people they don't know and commonly ''spook'' at new object and changes to the enviroment(neophobia).They can take a strong dislike toward unfamiliar dogs apon maturity.They are NOT gaurd dogs.They howl and vocalise a lot.They rarely bark(if at all).

I have an upper-mid male who is at my friends right now because of WWS(they live out so he can be contained-the friend has had high contents before).He is a mix of GSD/Husky and timber wolf.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Dejavu said:


> We had a wolf/GSD hybrid when I was a child. From the things I remember, I wouldn't recommend one as a pet for many reasons.
> He was gorgeous and he didn't have such a high wolf ratio as yours, but he scared the heck out of my mom all the time with his deep deeeep stare. He didn't bark, but when he was mad he bared his teeth and nobody NOBODY better dared go anywhere near him while he was eating or you'll feel this menacing aura.
> He was lovable and sweet with all of us in the family, even us little kids, but anyone from outside... oh dear! Not pretty!! He also never got along with other dogs, he fought a Boxer we had, it was horrible, we had to rehome the sweet Boxer. We had him and only him til he passed of old age.
> 
> So yeah, no. I would say having a wolf/dog hybrid as a pet is not a good idea.





Dejavu said:


> I wanted to add, he did chase and bite people who weren't part of the family. He even tried to go after a kid, friend of one of my brothers. He went out to the backyard, thinking the "dog" wouldn't bite him or anything (my parents didn't even see he was here, he was there with my brother) and without a warning our wolf/dog ran after him. The boy had to climb the swings we have to get on the roof and escape, and he still got him by the pants legs. Poor boy escaped unharmed, but scared to death.
> 
> He also bit another a mail man through the fence, and he almost bit a lot more people, but luckily someone was there to stop him.


Sounds like a poorly socialized dog to me. I know people who own wolf dogs(its no longer called a hybrid) and don't have issues.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Rott-n-GSDs said:


> Ugh. People think it's so "cool" to own a wolf. Very, very wrong, IMO.


Totally agree.



Dogaroo said:


> C'mon, I'm sure some people would LOVE to have a Great Dorkie!
> 
> Wolf hybrids certainly have their uses. For starters, they're a great *testosterone substitute for people who are deficient in the real stuff.*


A GREAT DORKIE?? Hahaha!!!!!!!!

Funny post! I must have heard 5 people say at some point that they were getting/wanted to get a wolf mix. Lazy, stupid, testosterone deficient people who probably couldn't teach a poodle to sit. But the WOLF must make them feel tough. <<eye roll>>



prophecy said:


> Congrats.You have a high content wolfdog pup.I hope you are ready for this.


Ummm had you read that long thread, you'd know the OP returned the pup.


If you want a wolf mix or whatever the correct term is, you'd better damned well know what you're doing and be willing to put the time and energy into it. I don't think it's fair to bring such an animal in with established animals, either. Too much potential for harm. And for goodness sakes, keep your wolf out of the dog park!!???


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I am extremely knowledgeable on wolves and wolfdogs, please feel free to contact me with any questions, concerns or problems. I am a certified Animal Care technician and have been studying wolves and wolf behaviour for 7 years. 

E-mail me if you're interested in chatting:
[email protected]


----------



## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

chelle said:


> And for goodness sakes, keep your wolf out of the dog park!!???



I think this depends on the wolfdog. Last summer we had a gentleman show up at our park on July 4th (the park he took his dogs to normally was closed that day). He had a very gorgeous, very obvious wolf dog. Of course he wouldn't admit it at first but you could tell immediately by looking at the animal that it was part wolf. The head of the volunteers was there and she was spinning since one of our rules is no exotic animals but since he wouldn't admit it, she couldn't really do anything about it. 

He finally did admit to me that, Gandalf, was indeed part wolf. He also talked about what difficult pets they can make. You can end up with the wolf characteristics or the dog characteristics- its a crap shoot. 

His dog was beautifully mannered though, came up to me, allowed me to pet him and even played with Dharma VERY nicely. He also played with a couple of other dogs for a bit then preferred to lay down and just watch. 

His wolf dog was better behaved then a lot of the dogs I have seen at the park.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

DharmasMom said:


> I think this depends on the wolfdog. Last summer we had a gentleman show up at our park on July 4th (the park he took his dogs to normally was closed that day). He had a very gorgeous, very obvious wolf dog. Of course he wouldn't admit it at first but you could tell immediately by looking at the animal that it was part wolf. The head of the volunteers was there and she was spinning since one of our rules is no exotic animals but since he wouldn't admit it, she couldn't really do anything about it.
> 
> He finally did admit to me that, Gandalf, was indeed part wolf. He also talked about what difficult pets they can make. You can end up with the wolf characteristics or the dog characteristics- its a crap shoot.
> 
> ...


I agree. The people I talk to who own wolf dogs are VERY knowledgeable and also know that wolf dogs are not for everyone. There dogs are well mannered and they are able to take them to Petsmart//Petco dog parks. One person took their wolf dog to a dog fair.


----------



## matthewm11 (Oct 18, 2011)

Most pit bulls are fine at dog parks too, but that doesn't make it a good idea to assume that your dog won't be the one that injures or kills somebody elses dog someday. There are simply some breeds that don't belong at dog parks, including wolf hybrids IMO.

I am usually pretty skeptical when I am told by someone their dog is a wolfdog. A lot of mixes can look like wolfdogs. I have a GSD/Sibe and I've been asked quite a few times if she is a wolfdog. I wonder if some of these wolfdog "breeders" are selling mix-breeds as wolfdogs as a scam to make $$ off of mutts. What's a shame is that most shelters will automatically euthanize dogs they are told are wolfdogs whether or not they really are.


----------



## prophecy (May 29, 2008)

chelle said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
No.I didn't read the whole thread,BUT this thread can be useful to others who use the search tool and still can be benefical to them.Thanks.

The 'correct' wolf mix term is ''wolfdog'',and your right-the wolfdog is NOT for beginners,and should not go to dog parks.


----------



## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Rerun said:


> Anyone else ever skip to the end of a very long thread and wonder where it went off track? From wolves on page 1 to cats on the last page.....hmmm?


lol. Someone was comparing wolf dogs to feral cats. So the discussion started because there is a huge difference between wild and feral.



Richiegs said:


> If dogs are descended from wolves (correct me if I am wrong), I don't understand why wolves can't be domesticated after many generations?


But WHY? I am against breeding without a purpose be it Great Dorkies or wolfdogs. The example of mixing wolves for increased health is interesting and I can respect that. But to mix them for a conversation piece, testosterone replacement, lawn ornament, etc is wrong imo. You can breed a domestic dog that looks like a wolf. Though if you're doing it just for looks I disagree with that as well; but I'd prefer breeding domestic breeds just for a look over adding wild wolves to a line.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

matthewm11 said:


> Most pit bulls are fine at dog parks too, but that doesn't make it a good idea to assume that your dog won't be the one that injures or kills somebody elses dog someday. There are simply some breeds that don't belong at dog parks, including wolf hybrids IMO.
> 
> I am usually pretty skeptical when I am told by someone their dog is a wolfdog. A lot of mixes can look like wolfdogs. I have a GSD/Sibe and I've been asked quite a few times if she is a wolfdog. I wonder if some of these wolfdog "breeders" are selling mix-breeds as wolfdogs as a scam to make $$ off of mutts. What's a shame is that most shelters will automatically euthanize dogs they are told are wolfdogs whether or not they really are.


As someone else pointed out its wolf dog.(Sorry pet peeve)

I agree. Most of the dogs you see on Youtube that someone claims is a "wolf dog" is a regular dog 99% of the time. Tanner is a purebred GSD and is called a wolf dog all the time. There are indeed alot of people who breed just random dog mixes and pass them off as "wolf dogs" for money. But there are VERY few good wolf dog breeders. And they are VERY cautious who they sell too. Also some shelters won't. My shelter will send an animal that is a supposed wolf dog to a wolf dog rescue/sanctuary.


----------



## Richiegs (Nov 10, 2011)

I wonder if wolves have HD too. It would be nice if someone could breed GSD in such a way that GSD could live longer, healthier and HD free.


----------



## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

My FIL had a wolf hybrid. He's was 75% wolf and 25% malamute. He was a beautiful boy. Smart as heck.

For one thing, we found out after he got him as a young pup (5 weeks) that most vets in our area wouldn't see him. FIL finally found one that would give him some basic shots and checkup when he as a pup but we were on our own after that.

He would kill animals. Deer, raccoons, etc. He hated to be inside so he was outside at night. Many, many times we would wake up and there would be pieces of animal carcass outside. Probably the oddest thing....laying in bed at night listening to him howl. I swear it would put chills up your backbone.

He pretty much spent most of the night out in my FIL's woods. (FIL lived in the middle of nowhere) We tried our hardest to contain him. He got out of everything. We found him one morning with a bullet through his chest. Probably from illegal hunters out in our woods.

I always warned FIL that would happen if we couldn't contain him.


----------



## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

Konotashi said:


> For some reason, something tells me it's very illegal to own a wolfdog (especially 50%!) in California. They don't even allow people to own ferrets - why would a wolf or wolf dog be legal? Not sure if that's been brought up already, but just saying.


What? It's illegal to own ferrets in Ca?

How sad.


----------



## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Richiegs said:


> If dogs are descended from wolves (correct me if I am wrong), I don't understand why wolves can't be domesticated after many generations?


 They could be but it would take a lot of resources to make it happen. The domesticated foxes were the result of a team of researchers working on the project for I believe 30 years. My understanding is that currently there are no breeders of domestic wolves attempting to breed for more docile, easy to handle wolves for companion animals and certainly not in the numbers that would be require to support a new species. Animals can be domestic (or pen raised or cage raised or captive bred or whatever you want to call it) for 100s of years and still not be domesticated, such is the case with many wild species raised for fur.



matthewm11 said:


> I am usually pretty skeptical when I am told by someone their dog is a wolfdog. A lot of mixes can look like wolfdogs. I have a GSD/Sibe and I've been asked quite a few times if she is a wolfdog. I wonder if some of these wolfdog "breeders" are selling mix-breeds as wolfdogs as a scam to make $$ off of mutts.


 IME most supposed "wolf dogs" are just Nordic mixes. Or sometimes not even. I knew someone who claimed their dog was a "wolf dog" and the dog looked and behaved like a purebred GSD. And another was an obvious cattle dog mix who weighed about 25lbs. I don't think it's always people trying to make money planting the ideas in people's heads either. I've encountered plenty of people who have found dogs or even dogs they bought as purebreds or were told a mix on that insist their dogs has to be "part wolf" because of their looks or behavior. 



jetscarbie said:


> What? It's illegal to own ferrets in Ca?
> 
> How sad.


 Yes it is a long standing law and I'm not sure the CA Fish and Game department will change their mind on it any time soon. Ferrets are classified as wild animals in CA and the CA F&G department maintains there is a risk of them establishing a feral population there. Of course, thousands of ferrets still live CA but are at risk of being taken and their owners charged if they are found out.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

AgileGSD said:


> IME most supposed "wolf dogs" are just Nordic mixes. Or sometimes not even. I knew someone who claimed their dog was a "wolf dog" and the dog looked and behaved like a purebred GSD. And another was an obvious cattle dog mix who weighed about 25lbs. I don't think it's always people trying to make money planting the ideas in people's heads either. I've encountered plenty of people who have found dogs or even dogs they bought as purebreds or were told a mix on that insist their dogs has to be "part wolf" because of their looks or behavior.


We had the wolf guy from F&G come in and give an in-service that addressed this very issue. In his professional estimation, more than 95% of the animals that are presented to him as a "wolfdog" are not wolfdogs. 

As someone else noted earlier, most of the general public has never seen a wolf up close and in real life. Our concept of them comes from movies and tv. And in movies and tv they almost always use domestic dogs of mixed breeds. They are cheaper to purchase, easier to train (which is a huge issue when dealing with liability and insurance issues on a movie/tv set) and much easier to live with. So, taking that into consideration, it is no surprise that so many people who think they have a wolfdog, don't actually have a wolfdog. 
Sheilah


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

jetscarbie said:


> What? It's illegal to own ferrets in Ca?
> 
> How sad.


I had never seen a ferret until I moved to Idaho from California. if I remember correctly, there are several animals kept as pets in other states that are illegal in California. The Quaker parrot is also illegal there, if I remember. I think a lot had to do with protecting agriculture in the state, and animal farming.
Sheilah


----------



## MamaTank (Nov 27, 2011)

matthewm11 said:


> *Most pit bulls are fine at dog parks too, but that doesn't make it a good idea to assume that your dog won't be the one that injures or kills somebody elses dog someday.* There are simply some breeds that don't belong at dog parks, including wolf hybrids IMO.


The two biggest rules for Pit Bull owners are these:
1. Never trust your dog NOT to fight. They were bred to fight, the genetics are still there. And any APBT can turn DA in a blink, at any age. 
2. NO dog parks. 

There are no dog parks here, but in my experience, you have to know your dog. Putting your dog in an uncomfortable situation will have repercussions. I would NEVER take my WGSD to a dog park, because he is reactive to dominant males. I would never take my APBT to a dog park because I will never trust her not to fight. She is very submissive, and would *probably* be fine, but what I've learned from other owners is that "your dog may not start the fight, but he will dang sure finish it." I'm guessing that would be the same with a Wolf Dog.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

Chicagocanine said:


> Was she born inside the house or out? What type of socialization did she have? IMO with feral cats it is more about socialization, feral born cats in my experience are no more "wild" than any other cats IF they are raised and socialized enough as young enough kittens. I had a litter of feral kittens who were most likely feral for many generations (we have a lot of feral cats around here) and they are some of the sweetest cats I know. I found them at 3 weeks old and bottle-fed/raised them. In contrast my other feral rescue who I found at between 6-7 weeks old is slightly more "wild" and older kitten/adult rescues can be difficult or impossible to "tame".


Sorry, I just saw this.... She was born outside the house. I got her when she was about ten months old (after her first litter of kittens was weaned), so of course she missed out on some early socialization. I suspect that in feral colonies, the ones without excellent survival instincts (including being wary of strangers) are most likely to be eliminated from the gene pool, so after a few generations they may tend to be a bit more "wild" than your average house kitty. Then again, Greta's kittens (who were given lots of socialization early on) turned out to be very tame & sweet.


----------



## Dogaroo (Mar 4, 2003)

Basically what I was trying to say, is that as challenging as it can be to meet the needs of an animal that's feral (and genetically designed for domestication), keeping an animal _that was never meant to be domesticated_ should NOT be attempted by anyone who isn't prepared to respect them as wild animals & meet their needs as such. I guess that basically translates to "wild animals should not be held captive by humans for the humans' egotistical fulfillment & personal pleasure." (Rescue & rehab don't fall into that category, of course.)


----------



## gingerP (Dec 23, 2011)

What I know about wolves is that they have this powerful howl at night. They look like dogs, they have thick furs and some people think that they are violent killers. I just recently read the good news that the gray wolf will be removed from the Endangered Species List, a United States Department of the Interior statement said Wed. Populations of the wolves in the Great Lakes region are now strong and no longer require government security, administration authorities said. Resource for this article:Gray Wolves taken off Endangered Species List


----------

