# will my untrained dog protect me?



## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

My female is 5.5 months.. I dunno if she will protect me when threaten.
I dont want to take her in training because I dont want her being vicious. But yesterday whenni took her for a walk, this guy kinda went up to me to compliment her and she kinda started barking and growling, then she smelled him and licked him :O. He started laughing and I was thinking to myself if he would have attacked me would she rip his arms off lol? 

Please reply!


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

Abbi isnt trained in protection, is 3.5 years old and ive only had her for a year as of Nov 1. I have a 13 yr old brother who I was play fighting with one day. Well he was on the floor and I was pretending to kick him and Abbi got up and went after him on the ground as if protecting me. No REAL evidence but I am very confident she would protect me


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Tommy my pup does the same! But she attacks me when my brother is play fighting with me lol. So what if an attacker triea to get me and she attacks me? Lmao. Omg ill die!


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

haha well fingers crossed that will never happen! But yea when me and him wrestle and even if Im beating his butt she will go after him


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

kelina said:


> My female is 5.5 months.. I dunno if she will protect me when threaten.
> 
> Please reply!


Most likely no. But there is no way to tell without an experienced trainer doing an evaluation. 
Based on your description that sounds like a fear response to an approaching stranger. Generally a fearful dog will protect itself only. Occasionally they will bite to run someone off (nip and bolt) but won't truly engage.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

So boc, you think I should put her in some training? I mean for the past couple of days when she is in the back yard and someone walks pass she barks and barks until I come out. Hmmm..


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Tommy haha your dogs is gorrrgeous !! My dad swears my dogs are not gsd because its not then normal color you see lol.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Not all GSDs have the protection instinct in them. Some are by nature too fearful of timid to attack. A lot of aggressive behaviour that people think is protection is a fear reaction. Puppies have baby brains and baby emotional development (that's why they are puppies), and expecting a five or six month old to protect is like expecting a 10 year old human to attack and defend an adult. The pup (and same as the child) should never put in that situation. They should grow up happy and a carefree, confident that they are safe that adults will protect _them_ if need be. A GSD will become protective at maturity, around 18 to 24 months of age. 

There has been some good discussions in the past about protective behaviour. This thread has a lot of info about protectiveness vs. fear. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/156050-protective-fearful.html


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## TommyB681 (Oct 19, 2012)

Thank you! Apollo and Shadow are both good looking pooches!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Awe well thanks. I dont expect my pups to go ahead and attack at a real young age jusy expecting them to know whats good or bad.. my dogs are protected by me thats why they treat me like im their mom though im not. Its just the matter of me wondering what to expect..


Castlemaid said:


> Not all GSDs have the protection instinct in them. Some are by nature too fearful of timid to attack. A lot of aggressive behaviour that people think is protection is a fear reaction. Puppies have baby brains and baby emotional development (that's why they are puppies), and expecting a five or six month old to protect is like expecting a 10 year old human to attack and defend an adult. The pup (and same as the child) should never put in that situation. They should grow up happy and a carefree, confident that they are safe that adults will protect _them_ if need be. A GSD will become protective at maturity, around 18 to 24 months of age.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

TommyB681 said:


> Thank you! Apollo and Shadow are both good looking pooches!


Awww thankks


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

By protection, do you mean actually biting someone? That depends on the dog, but most likely I'd say no.

One time near my home I was standing on the sidewalk, not really paying attention and spacing out just waiting for Molly to do her business in the grass. I didn't hear or see a young man walking behind me, when he got about 2' behind me, Molly barked and lunged at him, her teeth were about an inch from his body, but she had no intention to bite,, just a severe warning. Scared the heck out of me, but luckily the young man was easy going and said, no worries.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Gretchen said:


> By protection, do you mean actually biting someone? That depends on the dog, but most likely I'd say no.
> 
> One time near my home I was standing on the sidewalk, not really paying attention and spacing out just waiting for Molly to do her business in the grass. I didn't hear or see a young man walking behind me, when he got about 2' behind me, Molly barked and lunged at him, her teeth were about an inch from his body, but she had no intention to bite,, just a severe warning. Scared the heck out of me, but luckily the young man was easy going and said, no worries.


Ooow ! I mean I read a couple threads with untrained dogs protecting and a lot of people said its instinct. For ex. A while back I had a boxer she died tho:/ and there was a dog trying to get my dad thru the fence, she tried to get it and her teeth got all stuck between the fence with the other dogs teeth.. just so happens that all her teeth fell out ! 

I call that being protective because she didnt want that dog getting my father. She was untrained as well..


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I don't know that my pup would protect me if I was being assaulted, but my dad surprised us the other day. I was coming up the driveway and it was dark out, he was standing on the porch letting his dog out for a pee.

He was partially obscured by the bushes in the garden and he called to his dog.

My pup went NUTS. Hackles up, barking like crazy. As soon as she heard his voice again, she wanted to run over nad visit, once she realized who it was.

So while I'm not confident she'd actually protect me, I feel a lot more confident that some creep won't jump out of the bushes at me and try to grab me!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

OMG )) hahah!! I swear my pup did the same thing!! It makes me happy but worried because so many people said its fear and thats the last thing i need is for my dog to "fear" another person or even a dog ! 


blackshep said:


> I don't know that my pup would protect me if I was being assaulted, but my dad surprised us the other day. I was coming up the driveway and it was dark out, he was standing on the porch letting his dog out for a pee.
> 
> He was partially obscured by the bushes in the garden and he called to his dog.
> 
> ...


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Do you really want your dog to protect you? I don't know, I figure I have to protect them. I want them to alert me, but I'll protect myself.
It's funny a week ago, I heard a knock at 4am on my door, just a soft knock and something that sounded like metal on metal, now dh was 10 hours away and I knew it wasn't him, nobody but one neighbor has a key, Oz, my gsdX or just really poorly bred shep didn't make a sound. My Saint, who was sleeping in my room, went to the window and barked - which is funny, because she never barks. We actually thought at one time she might have been debarked because she never barked and what came out of her was weird and strained sounding. This was a deep, strong woof. By the time I got to the window, I couldn't see anything. To me, the dogs are a deterrent, they are a warning to me that something is not right. I take my cell and cordless phone to bed when dh is away so if he calls, texts or e-mails, I get it. A night like last night, he worked all day, all night until 4am and is back at work today, so he has odd hours we don't get to talk much when he is gone.
Do I think either one of them would protect me with just basic pet obedience, no, hopefully after the 911 call they would be huddled down in the closet with me waiting for the cops to arrive.
Now last night, coming home from downtown I took a very dark road, it was just me and dd in a stroller, it wasn't late, only 7pm, but a part of me wished I had taken one of the dogs downtown with us, not for protection, just to have one with me as a deterrent.
I would be afraid relying on a dog for protection, and it would absolutely break my heart if anything happened to them while trying to protect me.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

kelina said:


> My female is 5.5 months.. I dunno if she will protect me when threaten.
> I dont want to take her in training because I dont want her being vicious. But yesterday whenni took her for a walk, this guy kinda went up to me to compliment her and she kinda started barking and growling, then she smelled him and licked him :O. He started laughing and I was thinking to myself if he would have attacked me would she rip his arms off lol?
> 
> Please reply!


 
Would you expect a 2 yo brother to protect you? Your puppy is a baby and currently needs your protection!


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

kelina wait 2 more years then decide


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## dbrk9 (Aug 9, 2012)

All of my dogs GSD or not have been protective in one way or another! Dogs are amazing on what they can sense!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

pets4life said:


> kelina wait 2 more years then decide


Awe thankyou )


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

ozzymama said:


> Do you really want your dog to protect you? I don't know, I figure I have to protect them. I want them to alert me, but I'll protect myself.
> It's funny a week ago, I heard a knock at 4am on my door, just a soft knock and something that sounded like metal on metal, now dh was 10 hours away and I knew it wasn't him, nobody but one neighbor has a key, Oz, my gsdX or just really poorly bred shep didn't make a sound. My Saint, who was sleeping in my room, went to the window and barked - which is funny, because she never barks. We actually thought at one time she might have been debarked because she never barked and what came out of her was weird and strained sounding. This was a deep, strong woof. By the time I got to the window, I couldn't see anything. To me, the dogs are a deterrent, they are a warning to me that something is not right. I take my cell and cordless phone to bed when dh is away so if he calls, texts or e-mails, I get it. A night like last night, he worked all day, all night until 4am and is back at work today, so he has odd hours we don't get to talk much when he is gone.
> Do I think either one of them would protect me with just basic pet obedience, no, hopefully after the 911 call they would be huddled down in the closet with me waiting for the cops to arrive.
> Now last night, coming home from downtown I took a very dark road, it was just me and dd in a stroller, it wasn't late, only 7pm, but a part of me wished I had taken one of the dogs downtown with us, not for protection, just to have one with me as a deterrent.
> I would be afraid relying on a dog for protection, and it would absolutely break my heart if anything happened to them while trying to protect me.


I think they would of protected you  maybe its just me, but I want my dogs to protect me. Im a lil girl... if im walkin my dog and this big man tries to get me, I DONT want my dog just sitting there like its normal to have his owner being attacked.. I would die if somethin happebs to my babies.. i just hope they feel the same way


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

dbrk9 said:


> All of my dogs GSD or not have been protective in one way or another! Dogs are amazing on what they can sense!




*agreed*


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

codmaster said:


> Would you expect a 2 yo brother to protect you? Your puppy is a baby and currently needs your protection!


I protect both of my babies thankyou very much..


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Just having an attentive, well trained GSD walking alongside you will make anyone think twice about even getting near. The deterrence factor is often the best protection a German Shepherd can provide.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

kelina said:


> I think they would of protected you  maybe its just me, but I want my dogs to protect me. Im a lil girl... if im walkin my dog and this big man tries to get me, I DONT want my dog just sitting there like its normal to have his owner being attacked.. I would die if somethin happebs to my babies.. i just hope they feel the same way


They don't they are dogs. The only thing my dog is going to protect me from is a ham sandwich.
My advice to you, if you want a dog to protect you, is have the dog evaluated by a trainer, go to a club and train the dog. 
In my mind, it was probably just a neighbor or dog walker with the wrong house last week, and if it were a break-in and I am sitting in my bed like - a sitting duck expecting the dogs to do something, then I am an idiot. Instead I expect them to do what I say no matter what, if we're on a walk and a pretty poodle winks at Oz and I tell him ignore, he ignores, if they are outside and the neighbor's dog engages them fence fighting and I call them off, they better get off. So if a break-in were to occur and I tell them to get in the bathroom, closet, attic and wait until help arrives, they better do it and I am more confident that they would than that they would protect me. The last thing I want in a situation like that is an untrained dog escalating a situation or endangering me or my child by pure unpredictability.
Once at the park a flock of ducks landed, Oz pointed, dh thought, great I got a hunting dog! Took him out one bright Saturday morning, first shot that rang off, dog turned tail and ran back to the truck. He might have lab in him, it's possible, but he ain't no hunting dog.
You want the dog to protect you, get it trained, otherwise you might as well play Russian Roulette with whatever assailant you encounter. Your dog might protect you with absolutely no training, just his love and devotion, or he might turn tail and get the heck out of there! Which do you want to bank your life on?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My oldest dog is a samoyed mix. She is a wise soul, but generally loves everyone. I doubt highly she would attack someone, but she wouldn't run away either. She is confident and she would be right in their face, aggravating the heck out of them.

My golden is a happy go lucky dog, just like a golden should be. Since I live alone, I was looking for more of a protector(that is how the GSD came about) and who would be afraid of a golden? As he's getting older I have come to the conclusion that he would try to protect me. About a month ago I had him outside, it was pitch black out and a kid came running at us. I'm sure this kid was up to no good. The golden lunged forward, barking, and growling at him. The kid said oh poo poo and got out of there really fast. As soon as I told the golden it was okay, he went about his business. I don't want my dog to bite anyone, but his size is a huge plus on my side. 

My GSD has all the traits that she should have for a GSD. She has been evaluated for schutzhund and did very well. She is a very confident dog and she adores me. I think those two things alone can make her go into protection mode. I don't see it now, but once she matures I do believe that she would also try to protect me. She is very alert and very quiet...I would not want to meet her in a dark alley

While I think that two of them would attempt to protect me, I don't expect it. I would also be very upset if something happened to them because of me. They are my dogs and I believe that I'm the one that protects them. They respect me, they are loyal to me, and I would be letting them down if I didn't protect them.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

It still amazes me how many people I've met who want their dogs (especially GSD's) to be 'the ultimate hero' even if it's not necessary. They almost seem disappointed if they dog isn't. I'm not talking about in the case of a real threat either. I think it has more to do with their ego and image.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

i had a samoyed also growing up what a great dog wow but yeah I don't think it would protect me, neither would my other gsd or any of my dogs only my current dog would but thats cause i told the breeder i wanted a dog that had the gentics for this and i keep training for it. BUt like someone said dogs like this have it in them from the start training only helps maintain or bring it out or whatever. My trainer said from the first day he saw her she had it in her and would have no problem biting him for real. Shes not a sharp or aggressive dog though at all. 

I think certain lines of gsds would be more prone to protect their handler than other. There is such huge variation in gsd's these days. But also you can find the odd mutt or cattle dog that will fight someone to death for their owner. At the same time many many gsd's will flee. Most dobermans and rotties will press up agaisnt their owners legs show teeth and then bolt and run in terror. I think breeders of working lines, good breeders of working lines are still keeping that strong protection drive in their dogs and for personal protection all the time, they also place a lot of their dogs in police deparments as patrol dogs. A lot of these dogs without training I dont doubt for a second would chew a person up in a bad situation. Gentics I think plays an important part, of course not always but i mean that is why when selecting a pp prosect we choose from good working lines and good breeders. That is why police departments pick good breeders of working lines for their police dogs. It is not written in stone of course but there is a reason why we run to working dogs when we all want a protection dog.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

You never see someone saying hey I need a serious personal protection dog does anyone know any good american show line breeders out there? Most people flock to gsd's for personal protection you got to get use to it because right now they are the best breed out there that is practical.


The reason why people all expect the gsd to be the hero is because they are k9s and the number one practical dog out there now for pp. They have taken over the rottie and dobies role which are pretty much ruined here. Mals are too hard to handle for the avg owner. IF someone is out there looking for a serious personal protection dog the german shepherd is the number one choice. So people need to get use to this as this is the breed for the job. The thing is the breed just has so many lines so someone with an american show line just does not understand how a german shepherd could be a real protection dog. But someone with a good working line can understand it. They are worlds apart in their ability they are almost not the same animal. IF i had an american shepherd I would never expect it to step up to the plate, just like i would never expect a samoyed or a lab or a husky they just are not bred for it.


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## Jo Ellen (Aug 30, 2011)

Beyond the initial, "Ohh crap, she's got a scary dog, I better think twice" reaction, I don't want Spirit to protect me. I would hate to see him hurt, or worse. Sure, our dogs have teeth but they're no match for human weapons.

Protection is ultimately my responsibility. I think twice a lot


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

using her same fighting skill she uses on decoy in a suit my dog can take me down in a matter of seconds with a weapon but she doesnt know that though lol


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

pets4life said:


> IF i had an american shepherd I would never expect it to step up to the plate, just like i would never expect a samoyed or a lab or a husky they just are not bred for it.


I believe my GSD is half American and half German and she has it in her, I've seen her in action, but I still wouldn't expect it. As far as the samoyed...out of all of my dogs that is the only one that has bit someone. It wasn't a stranger, but she still bit and she did cause damage. So I'm not to fast to say that a particular breed will or won't bite...any dog can.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

yeah i would not expect it but I dont doubt it when people tell me theirs did. I know someone with a lab that stepped up to the plate and took a man down. It has and will continue to happen. But was just talking general. IF your gsd has taken someone down for you or other breed I would believe it for sure.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

pets4life said:


> using her same fighting skill she uses on decoy in a suit my dog can take me down in a matter of seconds with a weapon but she doesnt know that though lol


Lmao dogs are powerful.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Jo Ellen said:


> Beyond the initial, "Ohh crap, she's got a scary dog, I better think twice" reaction, I don't want Spirit to protect me. I would hate to see him hurt, or worse. Sure, our dogs have teeth but they're no match for human weapons.
> 
> Protection is ultimately my responsibility. I think twice a lot


I dont want nothing to happen to shadow or apollo..


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Gharrissc said:


> It still amazes me how many people I've met who want their dogs (especially GSD's) to be 'the ultimate hero' even if it's not necessary. They almost seem disappointed if they dog isn't. I'm not talking about in the case of a real threat either. I think it has more to do with their ego and image.


I dont care whether its a "hero".. i protect my dogs, they come to me for protection. To them, im there hero! I want my pups to be LOVING, caring, and friendly. Not scary looking and having people scream in terror.. I dont want that. But i dont want a dog who is not going to protect me if a dude tries to take me and run.. I can only defend myself so much 

It would be a complete let down if my dog cant be a hero for once if im getting attacked and they just run off. 

You WOULD NOT!!!! Like that!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Just having an attentive, well trained GSD walking alongside you will make anyone think twice about even getting near. The deterrence factor is often the best protection a German Shepherd can provide.


Very true.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Everyone basically took my question and concerns In a different matter::

All im saying IS : as my dogs get older.. will they protect me if someone tries to kidnap me, take my money etc. I dont EXPECT a puppy too... but the younger i start the protection training the better it would be.. thats why people train puppies ! Its easier and better so that when they are older, they know what to do.

I do NOT want a vicious, malicious, nefarious dog! Teeth all out, in an attack stance, nothing like that- type dog.. but I want my DOGS to know what situations are just not good..

One night, shadow and I went for a midnight walk.. she didnt want to go this one direction where we usuallu go so we didnt go and headed back home. Its really weird, and idk what it could of been but it was a weird situation for me..

To be honest, abd seriously put yourself in this situation: if you were walking your dog and someone tried to rob you, and you were fighting back but he pulled a knife out, would you NOT look to your dogs for help?! You would. I would. We all would.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

kelina said:


> OMG )) hahah!! I swear my pup did the same thing!! It makes me happy but worried because so many people said its fear and thats the last thing i need is for my dog to "fear" another person or even a dog !


I do believe it was a fear response on her part. 

However, your average criminal is likely not going to put a snarling, barking GSD to the test at that point! I doubt she'd actually come to my rescue if an attack was in progress, but I think I can now say with some confidence, that she'd be a VERY effective deterrent!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

blackshep said:


> I do believe it was a fear response on her part.
> 
> However, your average criminal is likely not going to put a snarling, barking GSD to the test at that point! I doubt she'd actually come to my rescue if an attack was in progress, but I think I can now say with some confidence, that she'd be a VERY effective deterrent!


German sheps have a good reputation to kill themselves for you.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

kelina said:


> if you were walking your dog and someone tried to rob you, and you were fighting back but he pulled a knife out, would you NOT look to your dogs for help?! You would. I would. We all would.


I would hand him the 3 year old cell phone in my pocket and the $5 I carry if I ever need a cab and pray he got lost.

I guess I do not understand it because I do not live somewhere where this is conceivable and in my younger days when I did run the streets of cities like Toronto and occasionally New York, I did not have a dog, but had taken enough self-defence, self- improvement classes to not give off the please snatch or rob me vibe.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

ozzymama said:


> I would hand him the 3 year old cell phone in my pocket and the $5 I carry if I ever need a cab and pray he got lost.
> 
> I guess I do not understand it because I do not live somewhere where this is conceivable and in my younger days when I did run the streets of cities like Toronto and occasionally New York, I did not have a dog, but had taken enough self-defence, self- improvement classes to not give off the please snatch or rob me vibe.


Lmao! I took self defense when I was younger.. I quit. 
And first of all, im saying as they are OLDER. Not younger. So everyone can stop saying that it really irks. What will you say if they are 2 years old and still not showing signs of protection? 

You guys get ridiculously smart for no reason. Calm down and answer respectfully.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

There are many factors that play into whether your dog will protect you or not.

How confident is the dog?
Has the dog been trained?
How determined is the attacker?
How prepared are YOU?

Maybe your dog will bark and growl at an approaching stranger but if that stranger takes out a club and smacks your dog with it will your dog tuck tail and run or will your dog fight back.

MOST dogs, unless they are TRAINED, will run. Sure, protection is in their nature but SELF-PRESERVATION will take over unless the dog is trained.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> There are many factors that play into whether your dog will protect you or not.
> 
> How confident is the dog?
> Has the dog been trained?
> ...



My dogs are very confident.
I trained them the basics..
And idk? Never been attacked lol...
Im prepared enough..


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

When people start puppies in protection training, they teach the dog that chasing and biting and holding on to a tug or rag is all in fun. It is a big game aimed at developing the motor skills, teaching self control, and building the pups' confidence. Setting the dog up to react in a scared aggresive way to a stranger is not training, it is traumatizing for a pup. I know you did not set up your pup for this, it just happened, but it sounds like you are glad it happened the way it did, and glad your pup reacted the way he did, not sure if you think this is how pups are trained? 

If you want the peace of mind that your pup will react appropriately to a threat when older, then take him to a trainer, and work with him. 

You can learn on how to do this properly in a positive and rewarding way for your pup.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> When people start puppies in protection training, they teach the dog that chasing and biting and holding on to a tug or rag is all in fun. It is a big game aimed at developing the motor skills, teaching self control, and building the pups' confidence. Setting the dog up to react in a scared aggresive way to a stranger is not training, it is traumatizing for a pup. I know you did not set up your pup for this, it just happened, but it sounds like you are glad it happened the way it did, and glad your pup reacted the way he did, not sure if you think this is how pups are trained?
> 
> If you want the peace of mind that your pup will react appropriately to a threat when older, then take him to a trainer, and work with him.
> 
> You can learn on how to do this properly in a positive and rewarding way for your pup.


Lmao! Oh lord. I never said I was happy.... did I? Nope. 

So anyway I really hate it. She goes up to dogs and does the same bs! And all she wants to do is sniff. Its annoying and I HATE IT. Who said I liked it?

As my question STATES: will she protect me in a serious case?

I didnt say if it was for any lil thing..


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

kelina said:


> You guys get ridiculously smart for no reason. Calm down and answer respectfully.



Pardon? 

Train your dog. 

I can take my husband's brand new 308 out of the box, will I get the first shot in the kill zone - sure, on sheer dumb luck. Chances are, I'll put the scope on backwards.

If the dog isn't what you are looking for at 2, re-home it, do it a favor.
A protection dog takes work, there is natural instinct, but there is work. Furthermore if the person holding the lead is a "wittle girl", that will transfer down the lead and the dog will react, significantly differently than someone with confidence holding the lead.

You want a protection dog, start training it now. Our crystal balls are all rusty, will it protect you? Sure. Go for it!

You be respectful, get a trainer to evaluate your dog, that is not disrespectful, get someone to help you train it. Working dogs are placed in working homes far younger than your dog, some wash out, some excel, but it goes beyond instinct alone. Instinct is only so much and may result in a favorable outcome, better idea, get your dog trained, get it evaluated, train yourself. Stack the odds in your favor.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

some are protective some aren't. at 5.5 months i wouldn't
count on it. i don't count on my dog for protection. i protect
my dog. whatever it is i need to be protected from i want my
dog protected from it also.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> some are protective some aren't. at 5.5 months i wouldn't
> count on it. i don't count on my dog for protection. i protect
> my dog. whatever it is i need to be protected from i want my
> dog protected from it also.


Yeah same.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Castlemaid said:


> When people start puppies in protection training, they teach the dog that chasing and biting and holding on to a tug or rag is all in fun. It is a big game aimed at developing the motor skills, teaching self control, and building the pups' confidence.


That's the big difference between training for sport and training for personal protection.

In sport training it's a game. While the helper does fight the dog somewhat, it's never realistic.

In protection training they will eventually come at the dog with everything they can. This teaches the dog to fight back no matter what. They will kick and punch the dog and they except the dog to keep fighting. That's what they are training the dog to do.

Me? I'm happy with my GSD just being a visual deterrent. At home my dogs "job" is to act as an early warning system - giving me enough time to get my guns and take care of any intruders myself.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> That's the big difference between training for sport and training for personal protection.
> 
> In sport training it's a game. While the helper does fight the dog somewhat, it's never realistic.
> 
> ...


Awe thankyou! It sounds good and also sounds like it will work.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Check out this post in Chat - it has a video that is very enlightening:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/chat-room/194555-what-would-your-dog-do.html


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

I wonder if this thread is too far gone, or if we can turn this to a what can a 5.5 month old do. What can we look at in such age to determine what niche our dog will fill. 
When I got Oz at 6 months, bundle of nerves, but potential, he picked up czech commands and hand signals, his leash manners, they took time, was he a protection dog, no, the rescue I was working with had a Schutzhnd person who trained us a bit, took us to the club, first gun shot - long before dh, the dog pissed himself. Now I had my TWH at home, we cut cattle this year, put him in at one point and you know what, the dog could herd, he needed work, but I did some work with him and when I took him home, he helped cut the mares away from the foals/weanlings (we're a bit old school, we turn all out together until they wean, we had one issue with mares kicking a foal, but at the end of the day, without medical and chemical intervention, she would never make a race horse, sometimes a mare knows) then we all know the story of Oz's back. But at that time, I was working on a niche for him and was looking seriously at herding, he was also an excellent frisbee dog - nothing he could not catch - probably what exasperated his back. I have a wealth of info on rehab for back problems, info on diseases, MRI's etc., but he's a bit chubby, retired 8 year old dog now.
So early on, during training, I had a handle on his natural instincts, which lets face it, with a dog as versatile as the GSD is daunting. It did take me until 2, but I had a clear line what he would do and what he wouldn't.
Maybe other members can weigh in here and say what they discovered early on, what they knew was not happening early on and explain to the OP, how we, with experience from beginner to advanced, start to evaluate and train a versatile dog breed.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Check out this post in Chat - it has a video that is very enlightening:
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/chat-room/194555-what-would-your-dog-do.html


Thankyou!


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

i would like to think kodak would protect me but to be honest i think he might just sit and watch but im going to go with he would to make myself feel better lol .although i agree with i dont think anyone will mess with anyone with a german shepherd at there side.but to clear up the aggression thing you were worried about (and i dont know maybe someone else answered you on that, i have not read all the posts) protection work is not to make a mean dog,yes it will make one that will bite but only as trained,and maybe not even off the sleeve you dont know,most of them do it just to get the toy (reward) anyway .it is rare to find a dog that the training actually made it mean...if you really want your dog to help protect you most of the time a simple bark and hold will do fine to change someones mind lol...if you want your dog to have protection training i can almost guarantee he will not become aggressive ,just make sure you have a good trainer


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Aweee.. I didnt know he was that old. :/ so let me get this straight- he got kicked?!
-is oz a full black shep?


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

arizona said:


> i would like to think kodak would protect me but to be honest i think he might just sit and watch but im going to go with he would to make myself feel better lol .although i agree with i dont think anyone will mess with anyone with a german shepherd at there side.but to clear up the aggression thing you were worried about (and i dont know maybe someone else answered you on that, i have not read all the posts) protection work is not to make a mean dog,yes it will make one that will bite but only as trained,and maybe not even off the sleeve you dont know,most of them do it just to get the toy (reward) anyway .it is rare to find a dog that the training actually made it mean...if you really want your dog to help protect you most of the time a simple bark and hold will do fine to change someones mind lol...if you want your dog to have protection training i can almost guarantee he will not become aggressive ,just make sure you have a good trainer


Thanks! And haha!!! I am trying to make myself feel good as well hahaha


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

no problem! i have done a LOT of research on protection work and want to start it just dont have the funds for it now,i do however have a guy here in el paso that i know that trains the border patrol handlers and k9 to go to if i need to..i thought i knew alot tell i met this guy lol


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

arizona said:


> no problem! i have done a LOT of research on protection work and want to start it just dont have the funds for it now,i do however have a guy here in el paso that i know that trains the border patrol handlers and k9 to go to if i need to..i thought i knew alot tell i met this guy lol


Lol! Well hope all is well  ! Why are you interested in k9 protection?


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

kelina said:


> Aweee.. I didnt know he was that old. :/ so let me get this straight- he got kicked?!
> -is oz a full black shep?



My Oz? His breeding, it's a guessing game, in the past his picture has been here for critique as well as other boards. I have heard everything from shep/lab, shep/kelpie, shep/beaceron, shep/rottie to just a very poorly bred shep. My dogs are rescues, I rely on experts to determine their breeding, Oz, guessing game, Dolly, well she's either a pure but poorly bred Saint - too Beethoven like or a SaintXMastiff to get the height.

Oz has a disease called lumbo sacral disease, it is a progressive degenerative disease that hit him at 4, we manage it with chiropractic, aqua therapy and acupuncture as well as diet and exercise.
Hence why I say, with dogs it is a guessing game. I know there are other members here with dogs with the same disease who showed signs of the disease, I came home from work one day to find Oz crippled, best guess, we had hardwood, the mailman insisted on walking right by our bay window, he leapt off the couch, twisted in a way to incite a flare-up and we got the diagnosis. Now we were lucky, our vet, his wife worked at Guelph Vet hospital, we had the X-Rays evaluated there, we had the MRI, the only true way to make the diagnosis and here we are. A washed out, though great dog.

At 4, very high hopes, he matured very slowly, painfully LOL, but he had potential to work in some way. Genetics had other ideas. Love your 5.5 month old, enjoy him/her, when the time comes, the dog will show you what his/her job should be. In the meantime, get some mace, carry a stick, protect both of you and enjoy your pup.


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

to protect my family when im not there mainly..second is i have been mugged before and he came up behind me with a knife i had my small heeler with me and he just looked like why are we stopped dad,if i had a k9 at that time things would have gone different


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

ozzymama said:


> My Oz? His breeding, it's a guessing game, in the past his picture has been here for critique as well as other boards. I have heard everything from shep/lab, shep/kelpie, shep/beaceron, shep/rottie to just a very poorly bred shep. My dogs are rescues, I rely on experts to determine their breeding, Oz, guessing game, Dolly, well she's either a pure but poorly bred Saint - too Beethoven like or a SaintXMastiff to get the height.
> 
> Oz has a disease called lumbo sacral disease, it is a progressive degenerative disease that hit him at 4, we manage it with chiropractic, aqua therapy and acupuncture as well as diet and exercise.
> Hence why I say, with dogs it is a guessing game. I know there are other members here with dogs with the same disease who showed signs of the disease, I came home from work one day to find Oz crippled, best guess, we had hardwood, the mailman insisted on walking right by our bay window, he leapt off the couch, twisted in a way to incite a flare-up and we got the diagnosis. Now we were lucky, our vet, his wife worked at Guelph Vet hospital, we had the X-Rays evaluated there, we had the MRI, the only true way to make the diagnosis and here we are. A washed out, though great dog.
> ...


Hehe I bring a bottle of bodyspray ! LOL!

& omgg poor oz!! He is lucky to have you & Im so glad you are a rescuer. I had always wanted to rescue because it is the best decisions someone can possibly make! But im still living with my father and he doesnt think rescues are the best choice. He wants a puppy, not a grown dog. So stubborn lol.

Shadow is my 5.5 month, everyone loves her. Down in the city, while walking people just love petting her and they give her tons of compliments ! I love my shadow  and I would die if something was to happen to them.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

arizona said:


> to protect my family when im not there mainly..second is i have been mugged before and he came up behind me with a knife i had my small heeler with me and he just looked like why are we stopped dad,if i had a k9 at that time things would have gone different


Sheeeesh!! Sorry to hear. Glad you are alive.

I wanted a heeler.. guess I wont get one now LOL! Totally jk!


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

he was still young i think that was why...if you do get the chance to get a cattle dog do it! it will be the best dog you ever have tied with the gsd of course


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

arizona said:


> he was still young i think that was why...if you do get the chance to get a cattle dog do it! it will be the best dog you ever have tied with the gsd of course


Lol! I mean my brother says they look like ghosy dogs lmao!

But the markings of one to me is beautiful!!

I personally love german sheps! Originally was goin to get a husky! But changed my mind and got these wonderful pups )


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

i know i know dont cross breed..but you should see some of the husky gsd mixes!!!!they are so cool!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

arizona said:


> i know i know dont cross breed..but you should see some of the husky gsd mixes!!!!they are so cool!


OMG THEY REALLY AREEE!!! If I would ever get a mix I want that lol


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## arizona (Mar 27, 2012)

there is this one on google images that is black but he has the most iced white eyes i have ever seen!!


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Kelina, I can totally understand you I am a girl too and most of the time alone in not so good neighboorhood, when I walk my 7 month old GSD I am nervous and always wonder if my girl has what it takes, now I won't know for sure until something actually happens but here are a few situations that my dog was in that I thought she could be capable to protect me maybe not today since she is still a puppy but later im almost a 100% sure she would.

My brother in law hates animals him and my housband's cousing came over to our house, his cousin loves animals. My dog would not come up to be petted or to play with my brother in law even thoug she sees him almost every week. My dog has never seen my hubby's cousin but trusted him immideately and wanted to play with ball with him. You can interpet this however you prefer, im sure everyone on this forum has a different opinion but I think that my dog could sense that he doesn't like her.

My best friend hates animals she comes over once a week sometimes twice... They met when my dog was 2 months old and now she is 7 months old. My dog absolutely hates my friend, she will bark and try to nip at her until i tell her that its ok. It is kind of actually emberassing to admit that my dog hates my best friend. 

My dog also hated my next door neighbor until about a month ago. She would not take treats form him or come close.

The other night my husband was by computer and he wanted to show me something and he ran up to me I was sitting close to the door to outside. The dog was sleeping right by my husband as soon as he started running the dog flipped out she started barking and growling and running to the door.After she saw there is no danger she went back to sleep.

Everytime somebody tries to get close to me or get a hug she comes over and gets her paws on me and tries to check it out 

If I scream the dog immideately RUNS to me. 

These are just a few examples, I notices she is more "protective" or whatever you want to call it of me than my husband. and very "protective" of my younger siblings who I don't even live with ages 5-11.


There are other little things that happen that I KNOW my dog can good sense about who that person is. Seems like my dog just loves kids and loves people who love her.

As far as protecting me I can only hope that she does. I can see that while she is maturing she is becoming more confident and doesn't run away from "scary" things she comes FORWARD. If I were you I would carry pepper spray with me and a knife or a tazer. You never know what can happen.. your dog may protect you from one bad guy but there could be a whole gang following you and your dog won't stop them, If you scared to walk outside definetely get your dog into protection training it will make you feel safer but nothing is a 100% even if you had a gun on you. A dog is a good detterent though. 

Another thing I will add is that it is ridiculous to hear some people here say "I would want to protect my dog instead of the other way around" People comepletely turned a GSD into a house pet. GSD is a protector that is their job the only time they woudln't protect is when they don't have a good bond with you, dogs always fight for their pack. But to be honest I wouldn't over socialize the dog so she doesn't just jump into everyone's hand to be petted.The dog may not protect you while still a puppy but when he or she is mature I am pretty sure they will. Its in their blood.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

julie87 said:


> Kelina, I can totally understand you I am a girl too and most of the time alone in not so good neighboorhood, when I walk my 7 month old GSD I am nervous and always wonder if my girl has what it takes, now I won't know for sure until something actually happens but here are a few situations that my dog was in that I thought she could be capable to protect me maybe not today since she is still a puppy but later im almost a 100% sure she would.
> 
> My brother in law hates animals him and my housband's cousing came over to our house, his cousin loves animals. My dog would not come up to be petted or to play with my brother in law even thoug she sees him almost every week. My dog has never seen my hubby's cousin but trusted him immideately and wanted to play with ball with him. You can interpet this however you prefer, im sure everyone on this forum has a different opinion but I think that my dog could sense that he doesn't like her.
> 
> ...



WOW! very informative.

See my pup does the same! I was playing with my friends hair and she started barking and growing at her! I was really embarassed because I have always said how good she was.

A couple weeks ago, my half brother slept over, remind you she never met him and he woke up and came into my room to say bye and shadow started barking ! Like before he even came in she let out this weird quiet, alerting woof! It was really deep and sort of scary!

Now, I am glad you and I feel the same way . I will protect my dogs as much as I can, but if I am getting attacked by a gang, lets just say that, my dogs better fight back! Its just weird if they just sit there and not defend me. I will be embarassed to tell someone my dog didnt protect me while I got beat up... 

GSDS are known for being those real TOUGH dogs. I dont want nobody hurting my babies, but my babies should not want people hurting me ! Their momma lol.

Your girl is a BEAUT !


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

If your dog won't go up to someone, that is not protectivness; but I would suspect it is fear or at least maybe a little shyness esp. at her puppy age. For true defense the dog would be at the end of the leash pulling to get at the threat, not barking to try to scare away the scarey thing.

Wouldn't want to really count on a dog with behavior like that (at least from the little I can assume from your brief post and not seeing the dog in actual action. It is hard to interpret, of course.

BTW, just between us, a dog that istruly to be a protector is exactly the kind of dog who will go up to people calmly and socially. the toughest dog i ever met- once the top scoring dog in protection at the German national Seiger show (want a more protective dog than that?) once was walked around a dog show by my wife (didn'tknow the dogs history) perfectly calmly and met a number of other folks! THAT is what I would want a true protective dog to be like and with an ideal temperament!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

codmaster said:


> If your dog won't go up to someone, that is not protectivness; but I would suspect it is fear or at least maybe a little shyness esp. at her puppy age. For true defense the dog would be at the end of the leash pulling to get at the threat, not barking to try to scare away the scarey thing.
> 
> Wouldn't want to really count on a dog with behavior like that (at least from the little I can assume from your brief post and not seeing the dog in actual action. It is hard to interpret, of course.
> 
> BTW, just between us, a dog that istruly to be a protector is exactly the kind of dog who will go up to people calmly and socially. the toughest dog i ever met- once the top scoring dog in protection at the German national Seiger show (want a more protective dog than that?) once was walked around a dog show by my wife (didn'tknow the dogs history) perfectly calmly and met a number of other folks! THAT is what I would want a true protective dog to be like and with an ideal temperament!


YES ! exactly what I want! A well socialized dog but a devil in the inside LOL! 

Ok so my dog on then leash actually pulls me and really wants to get at some people.. boy especially other dogs.. I pull her back but it makes it worse. Then if I dont run with her she chokes herself ! People look at me and I just put my head down in shame.. 

My wild pooch gone mad


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

kelina said:


> YES ! exactly what I want! A well socialized dog but a devil in the inside LOL!
> 
> Ok so my dog on then leash actually pulls me and really wants to get at some people.. boy especially other dogs.. I pull her back but it makes it worse. Then if I dont run with her she chokes herself ! People look at me and I just put my head down in shame..
> 
> My wild pooch gone mad


 
Sounds like your dog needs a bit of training. Have you considered seeing a good pro trainer?


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Kelina, thank you your dogs are cute too looks like you have a pair of white and black  

And of course expect more responses from others such as "untrained will not protect". To me its bs. I come from Russia i lived in a small village, the GSD there are pretty much strictly for protection and guarding the house and I have NEVER heard of these dogs NOT protecting their family even though they were not trained. The is a reason why so many dog breeds have different personalities. GSD are the best! USA treats dog differentely and imo over socialize them to the point where the dog likes everyone. Dogs are suppose tome confident and not afraid but they should not be jumping on people being all playful I would not trust that kind of dog to protect me. My dog to me is my best friend, a protector, a companion I just love her and I know she's got my back.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

julie87 said:


> Kelina, thank you your dogs are cute too looks like you have a pair of white and black
> 
> And of course expect more responses from others such as "untrained will not protect". To me its bs. I come from Russia i lived in a small village, the GSD there are pretty much strictly for protection and guarding the house and I have NEVER heard of these dogs NOT protecting their family. USA treats dog differentely. My dog to me is my best friend, a protector, a companion I just love her and I know she's got my back.


Awee thankyou ! And yes they are white and black 

I understand how you feel exactly! These dogs are basically guard, herding, protection, dogs. A real K9! I did my research and all.

I actually think most people lie when they say they dont expect their dog to attack a predator. But who knows?


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

codmaster said:


> Sounds like your dog needs a bit of training. Have you considered seeing a good pro trainer?


I really want to. I am kind of worried because I dont want people being afraid of my baby! She is really friendly.. she just gets all protective at times.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

kelina said:


> I really want to. I am kind of worried because I dont want people being afraid of my baby! *She is really friendly.. she just gets all protective at times*.


 
FA is not protective except maybe the dog is afraid and trying to protect itself!

Not usually both at the same time!

To be truly protective (as GSD's are supposed to be) the dog has to be able to recognize a real threat! Socialize and training and exposure to many many things help IF the dog has the right genetic makeup (many GSD's do not!).

You might be able to get someone who understands to test your dog if you can find a local ScH (IPO) club in your area. Could be an eye opener!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

codmaster said:


> FA is not protective except maybe the dog is afraid and trying to protect itself!
> 
> Not usually both at the same time!
> 
> ...


Ill call up Caesar millan ROFL!
Jk. But yeah I was thinking of putting her in some obedience training..


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

julie87 said:


> Kelina, thank you your dogs are cute too looks like you have a pair of white and black
> 
> And of course expect more responses from others such as "untrained will not protect". To me its bs. I come from Russia i lived in a small village, the GSD there are pretty much strictly for protection and guarding the house and I have NEVER heard of these dogs NOT protecting their family even though they were not trained. The is a reason why so many dog breeds have different personalities. GSD are the best! USA treats dog differentely and imo over socialize them to the point where the dog likes everyone. Dogs are suppose tome confident and not afraid but they should not be jumping on people being all playful I would not trust that kind of dog to protect me. My dog to me is my best friend, a protector, a companion I just love her and *I know she's got my back.*


Just like with people - one never knows what someone (including self!) will do in an emergency (i.e. one comes under attack from man or beast!) until that moment arrives to prove it.

Want to bet how many soldiers freeze the first time someone shoots at them?

Don't knock it until/unless you have been there!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

kelina said:


> Ill call up Caesar millan ROFL!
> Jk. But yeah I was thinking of putting her in some obedience training..


 
You should certainly contact Cesar. It really sounds like you could help him with your knowledge of dogs behavior.

Good luck with your puppy, and I really hope that you never find yourself in a situayion that you need your dogs protectivness!


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Kelina, I don't know if you have seen this but this is a absolutely retarted video somebody posted on youtube saying that untrained dogs won't protect you. Video shows a girl being approached by a strange man and supposedely the train dogs attack but untrained don't. This vide is bs because the dogs probably don't even know the girl so why would they protect her? Im pretty sure the video was submitted by a dog training company notice the comments are disabled proably because most people know that GSD doesn't have to be trained to protect as long as they are not abused and not over socialized and the person they are "protecting" is their owner and not a random person.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

julie87 said:


> Kelina, I don't know if you have seen this but this is a absolutely retarted video somebody posted on youtube saying that untrained dogs won't protect you. Video shows a girl being approached by a strange man and supposedely the train dogs attack but untrained don't. This vide is bs because the dogs probably don't even know the girl so why would they protect her?


The video was a school project by the child in the video. I'm guessing the girl is the child of one of the trainers at the company used in the video. If she's anything like my daughter was at that age, every school project ended up being about our dogs and GSDs in general. The video kind of shows the difference in a trained vs untrained dog but in the most basic way. The helper work is pretty sloppy and amateurish to say the least, but it was not meant to be for training purposes.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

kellina, i had the nicest gsd in the eighties. loved everyone but always looked after my wife. he was trained in obedience only, yet when i would see some one the dog didn't know or trust, he would always put himself between my wife and that person. when a strange guy approached her on our deck, our gsd was in front of him in a "flash" barking and teeth glaring along with his hackles up. . i have no doubt he would have protected her. with out training you won't know unless you find your self in the wrong place at the wrong time. of course, who is going to bother anyone while walking two gsds.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

julie87 said:


> Kelina, I don't know if you have seen this but this is a absolutely retarted video somebody posted on youtube saying that untrained dogs won't protect you. Video shows a girl being approached by a strange man and supposedely the train dogs attack but untrained don't. This vide is bs because the dogs probably don't even know the girl so why would they protect her? Im pretty sure the video was submitted by a dog training company notice the comments are disabled proably because most people know that GSD doesn't have to be trained to protect as long as they are not abused and not over socialized and the person they are "protecting" is their owner and not a random person.
> Will an untrained dog protect it's owner? www.BobsDogs.com - YouTube


Yup I seen this like 20 times, thats what made me wander


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> kellina, i had the nicest gsd in the eighties. loved everyone but always looked after my wife. he was trained in obedience only, yet when i would see some one the dog didn't know or trust, he would always put himself between my wife and that person. when a strange guy approached her on our deck, our gsd was in front of him in a "flash" barking and teeth glaring along with his hackles up. . i have no doubt he would have protected her. with out training you won't know unless you find your self in the wrong place at the wrong time. of course, who is going to bother anyone while walking two gsds.


Teheh love the story.. too bad its not alive anymore .. do you still own gsds?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

yes i do.


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## KayleeGSD (Oct 2, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> kellina, i had the nicest gsd in the eighties. loved everyone but always looked after my wife. he was trained in obedience only, yet when i would see some one the dog didn't know or trust, he would always put himself between my wife and that person. when a strange guy approached her on our deck, our gsd was in front of him in a "flash" barking and teeth glaring along with his hackles up. . i have no doubt he would have protected her. with out training you won't know unless you find your self in the wrong place at the wrong time. of course, who is going to bother anyone while walking two gsds.


Yep same thing with several of our GSDs. They did the exact same behavior. Baron who we had when I was a kid actually bit someone to protect me. I was 10 Baron was my shadow. We were by the creek playing and he was walked off leash all the time. Baron was never trained for PP, but he was a loyal well trained companion taught basic OB. He was a purebred GSD from the German working line.

A weird guy came up asked if I needed a ride home and I do not think the guy knew I had Baron with me until he flew over to me and stood in front of me. Teeth showing, hackles up, and the guy who was warned got too close and Baron bit him three times! There was something really off about that guy I still get creeped out thinking about it.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

julie- not socializing your shepherd will not make it more protective. Socializing a shepherd well doesn't make it less protective. Socializing gives a dog confidence in new/strange situations and helps the dog to recognize what is a 'true' threat vs. what is just normal human interaction. A well bred shepherd with good nerve, etc. that is well socialized *should* protect its owner. However, it's a gamble unless you've had the dog evaluated. Put a young dog in that situation, and you can really mess it up. My first shepherd got put into that situation, and he became aggressive to ANY male who approached me. He couldn't tell a 'real' threat from a non-threat. He felt that he needed to protect me from every male because I couldn't protect myself from one. It ended up costing me a few thousand dollars to get that straightened out, but then his life was taken. Please don't put your pup in that position. Socialize him well, protect him from threats, take him to training. When he is an adult, if a time comes that you need his help... if he has it in him, he will. Better to know from a professional ahead of time, though.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

The reason I said don't oversocialize is because I knew this lady she had a GSD she is very outgoing person herself and so she would have lots of people to her house and take her dog just about everywhere. Well when I asked if she ever fled protected by her dog she said " oh gosh no, he loved everyone he would let anyone walk in" so does that mean the dog has good nerves? The dog maybe stable and friendly but will the dog be able to recognize the threat? I have never heard in my life that adult GSD never protected its owner when something actually happened. It's their instinct to do so without professional training they are guard dogs after all. Did you train your dog to bark an run to the door when somebody knocks? Did you teach them to herd? Did you teach them to trust kids and love kids? Did you teach them to watch their owners?! My dog constantly stares at me. I have had many dogs before and NONE of them did what a GSD does. That's why she is my favorite dog I actually feel pretty safe in the house with her. 


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I have had several that were not 'breed standard' for various reasons. My last male never became 'aloof' with strangers. You can socialize a shepherd to death, and that dog should still become 'aloof' to strangers when it grows up. That doesn't mean aggressive. That means not overly friendly... just showing little interest. If you don't socialize your dog, you can end up with a dog that's fearful, that doesn't recognize a threat from a non-threat, doesn't do well in 'new' situations, etc. Socialization is to teach the dog about the world, and how to interact with the world appropriately. Just because some lady had a dog that wasn't breed standard doesn't mean it was due to over socialization. I don't believe you can over socialize a dog. I think you need to take a look at the 'breed standard' sticky. There are MANY dogs out there that are being bred and producing pups that don't meet the breed standard in one way or another. If I had my choice between a fear aggressive dog or an overly friendly dog, I'd choose the latter every time. Oh, and my overly friendly dog was STILL able to recognize a 'true threat' and would respond appropriately. So even a dog that never develops that 'aloofness' that is breed standard can recognize a true threat. (Although not all will) IMO, it's that he WAS well socialized that gave him the ability to see a real threat.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

I do need to take both pups to the whole social training. Because when dogs walk her fur flys up, shes pulling and choking her self. Its really bad. 

I just need to find someone worthy of it.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Jag said:


> I have had several that were not 'breed standard' for various reasons. My last male never became 'aloof' with strangers. You can socialize a shepherd to death, and that dog should still become 'aloof' to strangers when it grows up. That doesn't mean aggressive. That means not overly friendly...
> 
> I never said not socialize. Of course socialize them but i do believe you can overdo it. If I had to choose friendly dog and stable and fearful aggressive I would choose the friendly one. My dog is my friend and goes everywhere with me I wouldn't want her to attack for no reason. I wouldnt be able to live with knowing she hurt a child.. When I take my dog places I feel comfortable and I trust her judgement she used to be fearful when she was smaller but now she is becoming more confident.
> 
> ...


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

At 5.5 months a dog barking and growling is not protecting you. They may be showing fear which can be an issue as they get older or potentially aggression (not as commonly seen this young, fear is more likely) but a 5 month old is still a baby so it is more likely if a puppy that young is "protecting" anyone it is him/herself.
I would definitely be sure to work on socialization and training to be sure they can grow up to be confident as much as possible, you don't want to encourage a 5 month old puppy growling at people...
Early socialization is important, the sooner the better.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Chicagocanine said:


> At 5.5 months a dog barking and growling is not protecting you. They may be showing fear which can be an issue as they get older or potentially aggression (not as commonly seen this young, fear is more likely) but a 5 month old is still a baby so it is more likely if a puppy that young is "protecting" anyone it is him/herself.
> I would definitely be sure to work on socialization and training to be sure they can grow up to be confident as much as possible, you don't want to encourage a 5 month old puppy growling at people...
> Early socialization is important, the sooner the better.


 
*What they said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Muneraven (Sep 4, 2012)

I think most dogs with herding or protection in their genetic make-up will protect their pack if they perceive a threat. The trick is helping them understand what actually constitutes a threat.

I've noticed that our very young GSD is already assessing situations and people the way I'd like him to. He watches people and you can see the wheels turning as he tries to decide if he feels okay about them or not. But if I tell him that it is okay and call him to a person, he's just fine and friendly.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Chicagocanine said:


> At 5.5 months a dog barking and growling is not protecting you. They may be showing fear which can be an issue as they get older or potentially aggression (not as commonly seen this young, fear is more likely) but a 5 month old is still a baby so it is more likely if a puppy that young is "protecting" anyone it is him/herself.
> I would definitely be sure to work on socialization and training to be sure they can grow up to be confident as much as possible, you don't want to encourage a 5 month old puppy growling at people...
> Early socialization is important, the sooner the better.


I dont encourage it whatsoever. I yank her, tell her stop, leave the scene.. gah its a mess..


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

kelina said:


> I dont encourage it whatsoever. I yank her, tell her stop, leave the scene.. gah its a mess..


Yanking a pup, especially when it is already exhibiting fear, will only increase the fear aggression. Why not try getting the pup's attention back on you, step back a few feet, do some casual ob work, play with it, treats as long as his attention is on you.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

This is no different then asking "if I got jumped in an alley by one person, would I be able defend myself" the only correct answer is, probably not, maybe yes, plenty of anecdotal stories for each side. Only way to know is to train, practice, spar, and test yourself. Then you know for sure what your abilities are and how you react under minor stress. The only way to know how you will react in higher stress is to go pick a fight somewhere. Same concept for a dog.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

hunterisgreat said:


> This is no different then asking "if I got jumped in an alley by one person, would I be able defend myself" the only correct answer is, probably not, maybe yes, plenty of anecdotal stories for each side. Only way to know is to train, practice, spar, and test yourself. Then you know for sure what your abilities are and how you react under minor stress. The only way to know how you will react in higher stress is to go pick a fight somewhere. Same concept for a dog.


Best answer yet, to the point and addresses the issue!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Twyla said:


> Yanking a pup, especially when it is already exhibiting fear, will only increase the fear aggression. Why not try getting the pup's attention back on you, step back a few feet, do some casual ob work, play with it, treats as long as his attention is on you.



I mean im 4"11 if I dont yank the leash back, I fly with the dog. So what I do is yank and walk away from the scene. I dont tense up when my dog is acting crazy.. I just pull her back, start walking away.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> This is no different then asking "if I got jumped in an alley by one person, would I be able defend myself" the only correct answer is, probably not, maybe yes, plenty of anecdotal stories for each side. Only way to know is to train, practice, spar, and test yourself. Then you know for sure what your abilities are and how you react under minor stress. The only way to know how you will react in higher stress is to go pick a fight somewhere. Same concept for a dog.


Thanks!


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

I have a dog who bit someone who was attacking me. It was even investigated by the police and ruled a "justified bite." You'd never think he was a protective dog normally, he's super friendly and outgoing to strangers and I've never so much as heard him growl in annoyance at a person. If I'm uncomfortable in a situation with a person, he'll stand quietly beside me but not growl or bark. Yet when someone actually did attack me, he attacked the guy and kept attacking until the guy retreated.

On the other hand I have a dog who will growl and bark and snap at strangers very quickly. Same situation (literally, I had both dogs with me), that dog hung back and didn't do anything. Would he have done the same if my other dog hadn't stepped in? Probably. He's reactive out of fear, not protection.

My GSD is another who is really friendly with strangers and I think he'd protect me, because his reaction when I have been threatened (not really badly, just some kids goofing off and trying to scare us when we were running at night) was to calmly put himself between me and them and growl, but I wouldn't count on him to do so. He's a very nice deterrent and I feel very safe with him because I don't think most people are going to approach us, but I'm not expecting him to attack because he isn't protection trained.

So there's three real-life examples to kind of illustrate how I feel about it. Basically, if you don't have a protection-trained dog, you can't count on it. You also shouldn't encourage any sort of aggressive behavior towards strangers short of structured protection training, because it's unpredictable and may get your dog an "unjustified" bite history.



kelina said:


> I mean im 4"11 if I dont yank the leash back, I fly with the dog. So what I do is yank and walk away from the scene. I dont tense up when my dog is acting crazy.. I just pull her back, start walking away.


Consider trying an age-appropriate gentle leader-type device (either a head collar or a front-attached harness are my favorite on adult dogs, haven't had a pup in years so I'm not sure there). Yanking, even to keep control, will have a negative effect on your dog in that type of scenario. It's better to prevent it from happening in the first place.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

kellina. have been through some obedience training with your dog ? you always want to have control over your dogs and not have to jerk the leash. jerking the leash is some what old school and can hurt your dog if not done correctly. with practice and training you should be able to easily walk your dogs side by side with out so much as a tug from from your dogs. training is not only good for you and your pups, but will enhance the bond you have already formed.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

kelina said:


> I mean im 4"11 if I dont yank the leash back, I fly with the dog. So what I do is yank and walk away from the scene. I dont tense up when my dog is acting crazy.. I just pull her back, start walking away.


Again, yanking a FA dog is only setting it up for failure. Learn your dog's signals, as soon as you see her first signal to react, redirect her then. Yanking her gives her the message that she should be afraid and should try to make the scary thing go away.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

can't stress enough how important some professional training would be for you. my daughters were much smaller than you and could walk or run with kyra any where at any time. they used to wrap the leash around their waste and there was no pulling from kyra. its all in the training.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> can't stress enough how important some professional training would be for you. my daughters were much smaller than you and could walk or run with kyra any where at any time. they used to wrap the leash around their waste and there was no pulling from kyra. its all in the training.


I know as I said, I need to get her in training.

She really stubborn at times..


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

huntergreen said:


> kellina. have been through some obedience training with your dog ? you always want to have control over your dogs and not have to jerk the leash. jerking the leash is some what old school and can hurt your dog if not done correctly. with practice and training you should be able to easily walk your dogs side by side with out so much as a tug from from your dogs. training is not only good for you and your pups, but will enhance the bond you have already formed.


She knows the basic keys to training. Ill take a video of what she does. And you can see it beyter. I do really want to get her in some training because I do NOT want a 90 lbs or more dog pulling me ! In the winter, it hurts my hands cause im freezing..


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

RowdyDogs said:


> I have a dog who bit someone who was attacking me. It was even investigated by the police and ruled a "justified bite." You'd never think he was a protective dog normally, he's super friendly and outgoing to strangers and I've never so much as heard him growl in annoyance at a person. If I'm uncomfortable in a situation with a person, he'll stand quietly beside me but not growl or bark. Yet when someone actually did attack me, he attacked the guy and kept attacking until the guy retreated.
> 
> On the other hand I have a dog who will growl and bark and snap at strangers very quickly. Same situation (literally, I had both dogs with me), that dog hung back and didn't do anything. Would he have done the same if my other dog hadn't stepped in? Probably. He's reactive out of fear, not protection.
> 
> ...



Thanks!! I like your ideas.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

kelina said:


> I know as I said, I need to get her in training.
> 
> She really stubborn at times..


Kelina - I want you to understand that isn't something to be upset about. Every dog needs some level of training. Most subborn dogs are stubborn because they are independant thinkers. This is a very good thing. Might require you to work a bit harder with training, but it will be so worth it!


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Lilie said:


> Kelina - I want you to understand that isn't something to be upset about. Every dog needs some level of training. Most subborn dogs are stubborn because they are independant thinkers. This is a very good thing. Might require you to work a bit harder with training, but it will be so worth it!


Aww I do get a little worked up on it because I love my pups so much.
I just really want them to know good from bad! I really want her to get some good training- not by me either...

I dont even know where to start? Theres this place around me that does training but the girl is new to gsd.. i dont trust her.

If I do my own training, what do I start off with first ?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

If you don't know anything about dog training, then I'd suggest you start there. There are lots of ideas of books you can read and videos to watch in the Favorite Books, Links, and Videos subforum, which will give you a general idea of the basic concepts. 

But ideally you should sign up for a training class - training on your own if you don't know what you're doing isn't likely to be successful.


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> If you don't know anything about dog training, then I'd suggest you start there. There are lots of ideas of books you can read and videos to watch in the Favorite Books, Links, and Videos subforum, which will give you a general idea of the basic concepts.
> 
> But ideally you should sign up for a training class - training on your own if you don't know what you're doing isn't likely to be successful.


Okay thanks


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> If you don't know anything about dog training, then I'd suggest you start there. There are lots of ideas of books you can read and videos to watch in the Favorite Books, Links, and Videos subforum, which will give you a general idea of the basic concepts.
> 
> But ideally you should sign up for a training class - training on your own if you don't know what you're doing isn't likely to be successful.


Cassidy! Theres a couple of videos on youtube- tab289

He has a gsd and teaches calmness, obedience, walking, etc! 

What do you think ? Should I try this on my own and see how it turns out?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

hunterisgreat said:


> This is no different then asking "if I got jumped in an alley by one person, would I be able defend myself" the only correct answer is, probably not, maybe yes, plenty of anecdotal stories for each side.


I think in this case it's more like asking, "If I got jumped in an alley would my 15 year old kid be able to protect me?" 

Maybe they would, but do you really want them to?


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## kelina (Nov 17, 2012)

Chicagocanine said:


> I think in this case it's more like asking, "If I got jumped in an alley would my 15 year old kid be able to protect me?"
> 
> Maybe they would, but do you really want them to?


They are dogs.. yes I would want them too! Am I saying at a young age? Not at all.. around At 2 years old they should be able to help..


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hunterisgreat said:


> This is no different then asking "if I got jumped in an alley by one person, would I be able defend myself" the only correct answer is, probably not, maybe yes, plenty of anecdotal stories for each side. Only way to know is to train, practice, spar, and test yourself. Then you know for sure what your abilities are and how you react under minor stress. The only way to know how you will react in higher stress is *to go pick a fight somewhere. Same concept for a dog.*


*The same as with a dog = Yes!* 

Never know for sure how your dog will act if someone attacks you until it happens (hopefully never have to find out). I did happen to find out with one of my long ago dogs (our 65lb female BYB first GSD). And she came thru like a champ - VERY defensive and also effective it turns out. (My son and wife looked at Princess with a great deal of respect after watching her in real action)

Could have a test to see a little, if you take your dog to a ScH training club and have an experienced helper try your dog in Defense drive! BUT realize you may not like what you see! (Just like you might like your own reaction to a similar test or situation on the street)

But it is a very different thing to "Start" a fight yourself from "being jumped" by someone else!

Probably similar to a dog - starting a fight is one thing (dominance and all that!) BUT having another dog jump on you is very different!


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