# Best in show potential?



## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Does he have a chance in show ring? He’s working lines, but maybe a double winner?










Sonny happened to be standing like this while staring at deer. I got a pic b/c I’ve never seen him stand like that. I’m not actually going to do confirmation, but thought it would be fun to get some honest critiques


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## Emilia C (Dec 5, 2021)

Sonny is a winner in my heart, I think he’s very beautiful I think it would be good for you to enter him in a show ring


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

I know nothing about professional critiques. However he looks very soft, his coat well maintained. I love black shepherds (not biased at all).


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I know little to nothing about conformation and showing dogs as well, but I do know a good looking dog when I see one! I'd say go for it, I think he'd do well!


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

For a good critique you need to have the photo taken at the dog's' level, to get an acurate view to evaluate. I can tell you that in AKC Conformation, your pup doesn't have enough anguation to do very well. You'd be better off showing in UKC Shows, which are more favorable to working line dogs..


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

mnm said:


> For a good critique you need to have the photo taken at the dog's' level, to get an acurate view to evaluate. I can tell you that in AKC Conformation, your pup doesn't have enough anguation to do very well. You'd be better off showing in UKC Shows, which are more favorable to working line dogs..


Ah ok good to know, if he ever strikes the pose again I’ll have to get a better pic. I thought it’d be interesting to have him critiqued but I can’t imagine showing him - to each there own, but not my cup of tea


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Are you talking ASL shows? Normally a dog that's not ASL doesn't stand a chance in one of their shows, but your dog looks more ASL to me than working line. So, might stand a chance - he has a lot of angulation for a working line. 

Don't get me started on the politics of the show ring, though. Without a pro handler you really don't stand much of a chance.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sunsilver said:


> Are you talking ASL shows? Normally a dog that's not ASL doesn't stand a chance in one of their shows, but your dog looks more ASL to me than working line. So, might stand a chance - he has a lot of angulation for a working line.
> 
> Don't get me started on the politics of the show ring, though. Without a pro handler you really don't stand much of a chance.


Well, as long as you take your dog to handling/conformation classes and learn to how to show your dog, you can certainly show it yourself. My first show dog was shown by my co-owner, and a 12 year old child, and a couple of handlers. Actually Carly went Best of Breed, over a couple of champions shown by handlers, by that 12 year old girl. 

My current dog, Nora, got her first points being shown by a friend of ours who is wanting to learn to show dogs. 

You won’t do big winning on a dog that wasn’t bought with an eye towards shows. But you can certainly get your feet wet with your first dog, and decide if its something you want to do. Got to be able to run (its a fast moving breed).


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

I appreciate the responses, but I can’t imagine ever bringing my German shepherd into a show ring. Maybe I’ll bring an iguana and see how that goes.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think everyone with a working line should experience the SV show ring at least once. It's insane. Balls flying, people whooping like a drunk friday night on main street. Insane.

But the information you get from the judge is invaluable. Especially if you have a chance to talk to the judge afterwards and really discuss what they said.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

have fun and enjoy your dog!!!


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

I took a show handling class with my working line. I really enjoyed it. We went to a match and came in last but that was ok


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> I think everyone with a working line should experience the SV show ring at least once. It's insane. Balls flying, people whooping like a drunk friday night on main street. Insane.
> 
> But the information you get from the judge is invaluable. Especially if you have a chance to talk to the judge afterwards and really discuss what they said.


I have no doubt it’s a fun time, and I would appreciate hearing what the judge has to say. It’s more the idea of a contest based on looks that makes things unappealing for me. I won’t even call it a competition. Looks are important - I’m not trying to be radical about anything, but I also don’t care all that much about them, especially the fine details.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

HollandN said:


> I took a show handling class with my working line. I really enjoyed it. We went to a match and came in last but that was ok


Not enough angulation?


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

I am not sure I am not sure how well she would have done in an SV show it was something I just did and enjoyed which ended up being surprising to me. AKC show people ended up being really helpful


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

The thing about an SV Show, is the Judge will give individual critiques for each dog. Where as the AKC Judge doesn't give out critiques for every dog. Occasionally, they may stop you afterwards and tell you something, but that's not the norm.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sonny1984 said:


> I have no doubt it’s a fun time, and I would appreciate hearing what the judge has to say. It’s more the idea of a contest based on looks that makes things unappealing for me.


An SV show is not a contest. Can it be a contest? Of course, everything is. Do I care? No. Why? Because....It's an evaluation. Conformation is part of the breed standard. The dogs are rated G, SG, V. The judge critiques your dog. Listen to what they say. You get a breed survey - it's a more in-depth critique. The information the judge gives you helps you determine how to pick a breeding match. What are the dogs strong points? Weak points?

I went to the judge after Faren's to ask questions on his critique. I don't care if she gets a high rating because I have the information I need.

If you are not going to breed - then no sense in doing it.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> An SV show is not a contest. Can it be a contest? Of course, everything is. Do I care? No. Why? Because....It's an evaluation. Conformation is part of the breed standard. The dogs are rated G, SG, V. The judge critiques your dog. Listen to what they say. You get a breed survey - it's a more in-depth critique. The information the judge gives you helps you determine how to pick a breeding match. What are the dogs strong points? Weak points?
> 
> I went to the judge after Faren's to ask questions on his critique. I don't care if she gets a high rating because I have the information I need.
> 
> If you are not going to breed - then no sense in doing it.


Do SV shows help for breeding working line dogs?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sonny1984 said:


> Do SV shows help for breeding working line dogs?


I'm sorry. Are you messing with me? I'm going to assume not and answer the question. Of course it's helpful. Why would I have said that working lines need to go to an SV show and then explained that the information was valuable if it wasn't helpful. Working lines are part of the breed. And should be bred to the breed standard. The dogs need proper conformation in order to work. As much as I hate the chaos of the shows, I feel that the dogs should at least have a show rating and a critique, preferably the BS. I have one dog the judge said could V if he were trained better and another who will never be higher than a G because of pasterns. Why is that valuable? Because pasterns take a lot of impact and bad pasterns lead to lame dogs by the time they are 6 years old. It's valuable to know these faults so a breeder can choose to wash a dog for it or breed to a partner they feel can fix that fault.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sonny1984 said:


> Do SV shows help for breeding working line dogs?


Depends on how you look at it. A very well renowned working line breeder once said he didn’t even know what proper angulation was and his philosophy was form follows function. Granted, a lot his dogs carry a reputation for back issues and being injury prone. Take it for what want.


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

I really am completely unfamiliar with SV. I only knew they rate hips and elbows. If they evaluate form with function in mind, I’m all for that. I imagine breed standards in working dogs are to preserve the working ability, and form is reflective of working ability. I’ve only seen krufts and westiminster shows. My, again uninformed, opinion of these shows was that form was valued far beyond it’s relationship to function, and the form that led to success in these shows was at best neutral with respect to working ability, and at worst working against it.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Westminster and Krufts is more of a beauty pagent and the desire to have an extreme "Flying Trot", where as SV is based on the breed standard.


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