# akc papers



## keesha699 (Sep 2, 2011)

Hello,
i am new at this. I have an issue with getting my 5 1/2 month old GS akc papers from the lady we purchased her from. The father is from out of the country. I don't understand how she could still be waiting for papers after sending in a DNA test for the father. We paid $1,200 for this puppy. I would not have paid that much had I known this would happen. Does anyone have any advise. Is this valid or did we get a bum deal. But we love our puppy.

Keesha


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

It can take many months to get paperwork done when a parent is an import.
You can always call AKC and ask about the status.


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## keesha699 (Sep 2, 2011)

Thank you, 
We just keep hearing different things. But if thats the case I will relax. Lxie is a wonderfull puppy. The only thing is she seems to twist her back legs a little when she walks. We have had her to the vet several time and they dont seem concerned.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I think it was about 4 months when I got the papers on Akina, whose mom was a recent import. I was surprised at how fast. But the breeder had imported dogs in the past, so probably knew his way through the paper jungle well.

Good luck!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

keesha699 said:


> We paid $1,200 for this puppy. I would not have paid that much had I known this would happen.


What an odd thing to say. By the way, $1200 isn't out of line at all for a nice GSD puppy.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Puppies from reputable breeders are usually anywhere between $1,200-$3,000.

Working lines are usually between $1,200-$2,000

Showlines are usually between $1,500-$3,000​


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Emoore said:


> What an odd thing to say. By the way, $1200 isn't out of line at all for a nice GSD puppy.


But you have to admit, $1200 would be a lot to spend on an unregistered puppy.
They run about $100-300 in this area.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

gagsd said:


> But you have to admit, $1200 would be a lot to spend on an unregistered puppy.
> They run about $100-300 in this area.


that's what I was thinking. 
Although, I didn't know it takes that long to get the papers. I have always adopted papered dogs and the old owner just signed them to me.
Good to know , if I ever get an actual puppy.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gagsd said:


> But you have to admit, $1200 would be a lot to spend on an unregistered puppy.


Eh, unregistered isn't the same as having issues getting papers from across the pond. I'm not a breeder. If I like the sire and dam and the pup, papers don't mean anything.


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## keesha699 (Sep 2, 2011)

Well I don't think you understand whayt I mean. I sell my gs puppies for $500.00 to 800.00. But this lady seemed to know her stuff. Neither parent has an AKC reg. number yet. The puppy is great. I want to breed her at some point. Also my husband called AKC twice and gave both parents names and they have not heard of the breeder or the dogs.
Keesha


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Oh yes it's all clear now.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

keesha699 said:


> Well I don't think you understand whayt I mean. I sell my gs puppies for $500.00 to 800.00. But this lady seemed to know her stuff. Neither parent has an AKC reg. number yet. The puppy is great. I want to breed her at some point. Also my husband called AKC twice and gave both parents names and they have not heard of the breeder or the dogs.
> Keesha


:thumbsdown:


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Yep, I think you have something to worry about now....


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## ed1911 (Jan 19, 2011)

What is their return policy?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Just from that information I'm guessing neither dog is imported and just isn't registered. You can try to call the so called exporting country's registry service and see if the dogs are on there or just go to pedigree database, but I'll be shocked if you find anything. I'm pretty sure that the process for registrating an imported dog with the akc is pretty simple if you have the right paperwork, and a good importer/breeder would've waited a few months until both parents were registered to have a litter. It's a much better selling point to be able to show akc paperwork/pedigree then to just say "its coming in the mail."

I think you are a proud new owner of a $1200 unregistered puppy. Have fun and enjoy her, but you won't be able to enter any trials or shows.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'd certainly be concerned. I'd even ask if I can return the puppy for a full refund.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Couple of things.

1. Ask the breeder when (date)they sent in the AKC foreign registration to AKC. It takes 4-6 weeks, depending on the time of year, to process. Sometimes quicker, but... 

2. Ask the breeder to follow up with AKC on the ETA of the AKC registration. AKC is very good about responding back and that will give you a paper trail.

3. Ask the breeder if they sent in the DNA at the same time of the AKC foreign registration. If so, that could be 6-8 weeks for both to be done.

Hope that helps!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

keesha699 said:


> Well I don't think you understand whayt I mean. I sell my gs puppies for $500.00 to 800.00. But this lady seemed to know her stuff. Neither parent has an AKC reg. number yet. The puppy is great. I want to breed her at some point. Also my husband called AKC twice and gave both parents names and they have not heard of the breeder or the dogs.
> Keesha


If neither parent is registered the AKC won't be able to help. 

Are you still in touch with the breeder?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

If the female was imported pregnant, it can take a bit to get the puppies registered--if everything is going "according to plan" it can be done in 3-4 months, including mailing time. But sometimes things are a bit more complicated and it's necessary to mail things back and forth. And sometimes breeders (*ahem*) are not as organized as they should be and don't get the process started as quickly as they should. 

Last year, I registered a litter out of an imported dam and foreign sire. First you have to transfer the dam from her original registry into the AKC, then to register her pups, you need to get a DNA sample on file with the AKC. And since I had never imported from Germany before I wasn't familiar with all the steps. And although I had the form that confirmed that the stud dog was the father of the puppies, I didn't have a full official pedigree on the sire. So I mailed everything to the AKC and then they mailed me back and asked me for the pedigree -- and all these steps take time. And then when I contacted the stud dog's owner to get a copy, his papers were with the SV because he had recently done his breed survey and they said they didn't have a copy or scan available to send me. So I had to contact the SV and pay for them to send me an official copy of the pedigree. All in all, it took about 10 months to get the AKC registration on that litter--but all puppy owners got that info before their pup's first birthday! And I apologized and thanked everyone for their patience.

So, a breeder _could _be completely honest in saying that it is all in process.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Christine...I'm guessing you also told the puppy buyers about this situation and they knew about it before purchasing the pups? So the breeder in this case could possibly not be lying, but is also not being completely honest if they are in the same process that you had to go through.

That process does sound like a PITA, but in general I do believe it takes a month or two.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I got my puppy in early June, and just got my paperwork last night. Sometimes it does take quite some time. The fact that both dogs aren't registered seems strange, however,


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

What-do you think they are lying about the dog being am import? If you are breeding you think you would know how to follow up on this sort of thing and not just have an inkling that someone might know what they are taking about.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

martemchik said:


> Christine...I'm guessing you also told the puppy buyers about this situation and they knew about it before purchasing the pups? So the breeder in this case could possibly not be lying, but is also not being completely honest if they are in the same process that you had to go through.
> 
> That process does sound like a PITA, but in general I do believe it takes a month or two.


Yes, I let people know the papers were in process and would be somewhat delayed. In this case the breeder could be either completely duplicitous or honest.

I, hopefully, have learned a few lessons. I think that a month or two is a short-end estimate under the best of circumstances for a newly imported dam (DNA testing takes 8 weeks normally and they don't want to process the DNA test until the dog is AKC registered). 

If the dam and sire are already in the AKC registry, it takes less than 3 weeks to get a litter registration packet in hand. 

In my case, if the sire had had any previous litters registered with AKC, it would have taken less time. In fact, someone else did get a litter out of that stud dog registered while I was waiting for the SV to send me a copy of the stud's pedigree and I ended up not needing to send in the copy that I bought. 

But (hopefully!!!) I have learned and in the future I will know what exactly I need and will also act promptly on it -- before the pups are even born.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When I imported Odessa, she was in whelp. I got her papers six days before the pup was born, when she arrived, but they hadn't signed off. 

So, we had to send back to Germany and we also needed a certificate that told who owned the bitch when she was bred, and another on the dog. 

I had to send first the paperwork on Odessa and her DNA sample and photos into the AKC and get her registered. Then when I had her paperwork back from the AKC, I was able to register the litter using the foreign sire, and the paperwork that went along with him. 

I am told that the paperwork went extremely well and timely. I think that Cupcake was about five months old when it was completed. But some of this depends on things outside of the breeders control. People in my dog club say that papers sometimes take up to a year.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

I imported a female from the Czech Republic last year. She had just been bred when I bought her. Her owner had all her paperwork in order, but it needed to be sent into the CZ registry to be processed. I had the breeding certificate from the stud, a color photocopy of his registration papers and Koer, and copies of his scorebook in hand when I left to bring her home. As soon as I was home, I get the required pictures taken and printed, had the DNA test on hand, had the Foreign Registration Application, already signed by the previous owner in the Czech Republic, and just had to wait for the papers to arrive from the Czech Registry. They came about a week before she whelped. I sent everything in together, and I had the puppies litter registration done online and their registration papers in the mail about the time they were 8 weeks old.
Granted, I had previously registered foreign dogs and knew the process, but I also made a couple of called to AKC before hand to make sure that I had everything that I needed to complete the paperwork. After that is was pretty much a breeze.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Also should add, that when I got Elsa as a 8 week old puppy from Belgium, it took almost a year to get her registration papers. Not that there was a problem, but they just didn't get in any hurry to get them taken care of and to get them sent to me. But, I did know that both parents were registered.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

If BOTH parents are imports...it can take quite some time to get ALL paperwork finished on the parents, so that the litter can finally be registered.
*I know because I have gone through it*.
We imported a female just last year.....took us nearly 9 months, before the litter had their AKC papers. *one small problem in Germany, is all that is needed to cause a hold up.*
Give your breeder some more time....just stay in communication with them.


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

When we purchased 2 females from a breeder here that sent their females to the Czech Republic to be bred and sent back to whelp. It took almost 6 months before the paperwork came in the male. It all depends upon how well the breeder was prepared to register the said litter


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

there are quite a few steps to go through to get the pup imported - esp if the sire is still in Germany - it CAN take months. If everything is in order, import papers correct, DNA sent in, copies of foreign sires papers, etc, it is still about 8 weeks...IF it is all in order!

Lee


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

keesha699 said:


> Well I don't think you understand whayt I mean. I sell my gs puppies for $500.00 to 800.00. But this lady seemed to know her stuff. Neither parent has an AKC reg. number yet. The puppy is great. I want to breed her at some point. Also my husband called AKC twice and gave both parents names and they have not heard of the breeder or the dogs.
> Keesha


2 thoughts come to mind: caveat emptor and due diligence
Why did you buy a puppy when its parents are not registered if you want
to breed it? I hope you can get some satisfaction from this breeder.
Best of luck and pics of the pup.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Apparently, as is quite common it seems, they believed a breeder's word without doing any background research on it. 
Also it seems (from the OPs 3rd post) they themselves may be breeding unregistered GSDs and selling the offspring for up to $800. Therefore, they expected more from a $1200 puppy (papers). 
Perhaps I'm being presumptuous; if not, to the OP, just sell a couple more puppies and the one you just wasted $1200 on will be paid for 

http://www.akc.org/future_dog_owner/puppy_buyers_beware.cfm Good info.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Paddy, that is how it is done if you are importing a bitch in whelp. The puppy most likely will not have papers by eight weeks, unless all the stars align. I too called the AKC a couple of times, and actually got some wrong answers and had to call back, but much of the time, the problem is in the other country, and the number of hoops everyone has to jump through. 

If you trust the breeder, then you should not worry. Generally you have the papers long before you need them. But 1200$ for an imported puppy is pretty cheap at least for show lines.


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## Geeheim (Jun 18, 2011)

These things do take time. I have never imported but, I bought a puppy last year from a breeder friend who had imported her from Germany. It took at least 6 months to get everything sorted out and get her AKC registered.

Best of luck to you and I hope there will be a positive outcome. =)


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