# Are dog parks really that bad?



## kat12510 (Dec 18, 2016)

I'm conflicted. It's been a long time since I had a puppy (5yrs) and things change so much in such a short amount of time. I was under the impression that dog parks are a great place for dogs to socialize with each other and get the dog/dog socialization experience they all need. After spending some time on this forum though, it seems dog parks are not recommended by a lot of people. I'd like some insight on why they're bad. Now granted, this would all be assuming you visit a safe dog park with responsible visitors who own dogs that are well adjusted to being around other dogs. Obviously this factor can change and there are people all over who have no business owning a dog and are not responsible when it comes to using shared dog spaces. There is also the change of a dog fight or injury which hands down is the very worst case scenario.

That being said, if you could guarantee that there is no risk of a dog fight, would they really be that bad? I can understand the argument that the dog may get accustomed to playing off leash with other dogs and this could trigger obnoxious behavior when seeing other dogs while on a leash because they want to play. But wouldn't it be entirely possible to train your dog to remain calm on the leash and under control, regardless if leashed or not? I would imagine that any dog, regardless of one who has been socialized at a dog park or not, would react this way to seeing another dog on leash if it has not been trained to ignore it.

I have been taking my pointer to the dog park since she was about 7-8mo old. She generally ignores other dogs and is there to sniff and run, but minds her own business. There have been a few instances where another dog has taken keen interest in her and wanted to dominate her, but she backs down and gives up immediately. I have not noticed any negative behaviors from taking her here, and I truly believe it has made her learn to ignore other dogs as she's around them often and they have lost their "shininess" if that makes sense lol. 

I just want to know if I am missing something. We have a very nice, small dog park near our house that's mostly woods and walking trails, with maybe a handful of other people using it. There aren't any huge open areas and most people don't just stand around, they're walking or hiking. I want to take my new GSD there once she is a bit bigger so I can get her accustomed to other dogs, and I think it would help her learn that its okay to stop and sniff and play for a bit, but then we continue on our walk and move on. 

Any advice on my theories or things to consider? Also I'm well aware of the dangers of dog parks so I'm not so much interested in bite or attack stories and facts as I know they exist, I'm strictly interested in terms of socialization if they are a successful tool and why/why not.

Thank you!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

As somebody with tons of first hand experience going to dog parks, the answer is no.

Then I hear that can depend on where you live.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I take my dog to dog parks. I don't think they're a socialization tool. I think of them as a "run around and be a dog" tool.

My dog was socialized before I ever started taking her to dog parks; we introduced her to a variety of humans and she learned to handle herself around other dogs while on leash out in the community and at training. We initially weren't going to take her at all, but we experimented when she was around 10 months old, and it worked out well for the most part. Because of all of the variables involved, I don't personally feel comfortable using a dog park to get my dog used to other dogs, but it's been a good way for her to run off energy once she had shown herself to be well adjusted with other dogs.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

kat12510 said:


> That being said, if you could guarantee that there is no risk of a dog fight, would they really be that bad?


There are no guarantees there won't be any dog fights in a dog park any more than there are no guarantees that ill contained aggressive dogs won't get loose and attack your dog just walking around your neighborhood. Many people find the latter to be the more common danger.



kat12510 said:


> I can understand the argument that the dog may get accustomed to playing off leash with other dogs and this could trigger obnoxious behavior when seeing other dogs while on a leash because they want to play.


This has not been my experience at all.



kat12510 said:


> .... I truly believe it has made her learn to ignore other dogs as she's around them often and they have lost their "shininess" if that makes sense lol.


That makes a lot of sense.

This has been my experience with each and every dog I have owned that were taken to dog parks.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

If you have access to a "good" dog park with attentive owners then why not try it. There is some risk no matter whether you go, the dog park, neighborhood, training club, and even the cemetery, lol 

Two of mine can selectively be butt holes so no dog parks for us. There are owners who fail to see their dogs "short comings" and will visit DP's anyways, stay vigilant and be ready to exit.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I don't take mine simply because the one time I did take mine when there were no other dogs there. I had to walk around and pick up like ten piles of crap effort I could even let my dogs play. I figured if the morons that go there are too stupid to pick up their dogs crap they are probably too stupid to train their dogs. And I don't wanna have to fight some idiot or have my dogs get into a fight with some idiots dogs cause they're out or control.


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## labX (Dec 7, 2016)

It depends on how much ground work you have done. So we started taking Gigi to Petco which run 2 puppy social classes .Both free. One for smaller and one for bigger dogs. My dog started going to once a week first in smaller pup and then the bigger one. As it's a store and the trainer is right there. It's only for pups upto 6 months .

We also travelled 3000 miles with our kids on road trips in our camper. So she got to play at k9 parks in all he campgrounds . Again small fenced in area with dogs that are well socialized and not crazy .

We also sent her to doggy day care when we go to theme parks and other non dog places. So again exposed to alot .

Now she goes 2 dog parks near us and some off leash dog area . She goes to day care often when cold and rarely when warm.

Again as u can see she is used to it .And loves it. 

We had a male before who loved except he would disagree very rarely with one dog.also he will heel on command leaving a dog disagreement or fight. So I never worried as even the one time he got into a fight it a gsd , he heeled where as the other owner was zapping that poor gsd to heaven.

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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

There is no universal right answer to this. It depends on you, your dogs, your city's dog park "culture," and the quality and size of your parks. 

The best dog parks are huge, have regulars who are very involved in supervising all interactions (and verbally correcting bad behavior at the first sign of it to nip it in the bud, no matter whose dog it is). For example, if a dog starts trying to hump other dogs, it's told to knock it off--immediately.

We have taken our dogs to dog parks for years, but we supervise carefully and we're right in the middle of all the interactions -- intervening when needed, and leaving when dogs show up that I don't want my dogs around. We've learned to read the energy in the dog park, and when it turns bad, you get out. Most of the time, it's great.

We travel with our dogs, and we often stop at dog parks along the route to give our 3 time to blow off steam after a long day in a car. One thing I've learned is to avoid dog parks that are cramped (a lot of dogs in a small space). Fights are much more likely at those than at huge parks where people and dogs spread out. 

I also keep my dogs away from the pavilions (shady seating areas) where dogs and people congregate. Those are prime problem areas (some dogs may start resource guarding in there, and the owners tend to be sitting down reading and chatting, not paying attention to problem behavior until it escalates into a mess). 

The best-of-the-best dog parks are members-only, charge a fee, and have members assigned to serve as "park monitors" during shifts (someone's always on duty with a whistle). Not picking up your dog's poop will get you kicked out of those clubs really fast. So will allowing your dog to be a jerk. Some of them have a "one warning" rule -- after one warning, a second offense gets you kicked out, permanently. They have electronic locks to keep the public out.

At the far extreme of "awesome" is my trainer's private socialization exercise -- open only to currently enrolled dogs and alumni. He knows every dog there. There are no toys. All humans must walk continuously for the entire hour, along the outer perimeter of the field. You cannot stop (stopping creates problems--if you aren't up to walking for an hour, this exercise simply isn't for you). No one is allowed to come in late -- no exceptions (the "pack" dynamic gets formed in the first few minutes, and new comers arriving after it forms cause problems). All the owners are totally into their dogs, so bad behavior gets corrected before it escalates, and dogs who are being rehabilitated are tolerated with compassion and understanding. The trainer carries a dressage whip and will smack the rump of anyone trying to start a fight -- it only takes one time, and they don't do it again. It's rarely ever needed. I've seen this weekly exercise totally fix highly dog-reactive dogs. The scared, reactive dogs usually simply learn to follow the lead of the stable, good pack--there's a "dog culture" there that they learn to replicate. On that field, the pack "fixes" things that would be a lot harder for humans to fix. It's AMAZING. It works this well only because it's so choreographed and controlled though (and the stable, good dogs vastly outnumber any newcomers working through issues) -- very different than a normal dog park. We've had 16+ GSDs loose on the field at once, plus about 15 other large and small dogs of all breeds (even tiny ones)....without any problems at all!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

There are alternative/off-peak ways to utilize dog parks.

Depending on the time of year, it gets dark here between 5 and 8pm. Our local park is open year-round 7am - 9pm. I used to go pretty regularly after dark with a headlamp. I became good friends with the two (yes, count 'em, TWO) other people who went after dark. One third shift janitor and one highly caffeinated librarian. Our dogs had a blast running around with their blinky lights. When no one else was there, I'd just walk a bunch of fast laps while my dog ran back and forth alongside me, sniffing all the good smells. If I lived in a more rural area I'd prefer a night hike on a trail, but off-leash laps of the dog park can suffice on a weeknight.

I also enjoy going to the area dog parks when it's raining or snowing. I'm almost always alone. Dress for the weather, enjoy your own private acreage.

If you think outside the box, sometimes you can get lots of enjoyment out of public spaces - with safety and (some) privacy.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

They can be safe. Only you can judge. We have several nearby. One is known as the disease pit. It's never cleaned. It is very crowded. Dogs come out of there with diseases, resistant bacterial infections. Another one is very clean but it's also nearly empty. The people there are bossy and entitled. They don't want mine to go back because he isn't neutered. The others are in between. 

What is the ground cover like there? If it's grass or natural covering, yes. If they use bark or wood shavings, or gravel, or have a lot of debris and twigs on the ground do you want your dog running on that and maybe getting something shoved into a foot?


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

May I suggest you go over to Leerburg to see the opinion of a real GSD trainer on this
https://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/1100/The_Problem_with_Dog_Parks

Oh, thats a video. The free articles about training are here http://leerburg.com/training-articles.htm

Here> http://leerburg.com/dogparks.htm


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Leerburg almost NEVER lets his dogs run free off leash, dog park or not. On the rare occasions that he does, he always has e collars on them, even the toy breeds he owns. I would sooner question why he doesn't trust his own off leash training before giving credence to his opinions on dog parks.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Nurse Bishop said:


> May I suggest you go over to Leerburg to see the opinion of a real GSD trainer on this
> https://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/1100/The_Problem_with_Dog_Parks


A real trainer by what standards? He is just one of many. I have read almost everything he says. His article on pano is just plain wrong. I had the opposite experience. He isolates his puppies until 18 months. He uses his articles to sell DVDs and online training. I have learned some good things from his site, and seen things I wouldn't touch.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

the articles I've read from him on pano mirror what I've always been told by my vets about pano.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Leerburg almost NEVER lets his dogs run free off leash, dog park or not. On the rare occasions that he does, he always has e collars on them, even the toy breeds he owns. I would sooner question why he doesn't trust his own off leash training before giving credence to his opinions on dog parks.


Thats because he is raising multiple dogs. Read what he thinks about adding a puppy to 'keep an old dog company' Leerburg | Raising Two Pups at a Time: Why It's a Bad Idea

I like Leerburg's methods because I have a working lines German Shepherd. But having a pet lines or show lines is no excuse for bad training.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I've had good, bad, and downright ugly experiences over many years. It just depends on the owners and the dogs. 

I have been going to a local one with a pond, a small dog area, and a seperate area with agility equipment. I have never seen the small area used. I have gone when it has been super busy and it was just stressful. To many dogs that resource guard IMO. I keep my dogs in the water for the most part. Dogs are fighting and mine just mind their business and fetch the ball. I watch the dogs that are issues and make a mental note. The biggest problem dogs are the GSDs, the labs, and the Goldens. The GSDs resource guard(one female is just awful) and they stalk the other dogs(owners do nothing). The labs and goldens growl while they are swimming with their toys. It would not be good if I had to jump into a pond to stop a fight. 

I go in the early morning when it's empty or a couple dogs that I know are not issues. I did get caught in there once when they were coming in with that awful female GSD. I had my female Robyn and I know for a fact they won't get along, so I had to tell them outright to hold their dog so I could get out. 

Early morning works out good, they get a good workout and we leave. No stress for all involved.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I do not personally care for dog parks, because of the unpredictable behavior of the dogs.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I would never take my dog to a dog park unless it was empty, too many chances of another person's out of control dog trying to attack her and then making her dog reactive or me getting in serious trouble for protecting my dog. But then again I'm extremely lucky, live on a farm/rural area and hardly even have to have my dog on a leash. At most dog parks I don't think it's a matter of if your dog will be attacked but when. Most pet owners do not have any control over their dogs and most also think their dogs do no wrong so when their dog goes charging at yours and your's tries to defend itself it not only will start a fight between the dogs but also the owners. I would not worry too much with socializing your pup with other dogs, working on getting all her focus on you will make future interactions with other dogs much more enjoyable.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Thats because he is raising multiple dogs. Read what he thinks about adding a puppy to 'keep an old dog company' Leerburg | Raising Two Pups at a Time: Why It's a Bad Idea
> 
> I like Leerburg's methods because I have a working lines German Shepherd. But having a pet lines or show lines is no excuse for bad training.


Raising multiple dogs? Adding a pup with an old dog? Raising two pups at the same time? Working line? My bad. I should stick to commenting on things I have experience with.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> the articles I've read from him on pano mirror what I've always been told by my vets about pano.


He says to starve the dog. He says only raw will cure it. Both are opinions not facts and are absurd. My vet says it's more genetic than anything else.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Raising multiple dogs? Adding a pup with an old dog? Raising two pups at the same time? Working line? My bad. I should stick to commenting on things I have experience with.


Because you don't have multiple WL dogs and haven't owned over 30 of them? You may have raised and trained more than Leerburg has. He doesn't even work with GSDs anymore that I can tell. They are raising Michael Ellis's Mals.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Thats because he is raising multiple dogs. Read what he thinks about adding a puppy to 'keep an old dog company' Leerburg | Raising Two Pups at a Time: Why It's a Bad Idea
> 
> I like Leerburg's methods because I have a working lines German Shepherd. But having a pet lines or show lines is no excuse for bad training.


Look at MAWL's picture. I see a whole pack of WL dogs and one SL.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Because you don't have multiple WL dogs and haven't owned over 30 of them? You may have raised and trained more than Leerburg has. He doesn't even work with GSDs anymore that I can tell. They are raising Michael Ellis's Mals.


I think he switched to Mals quite some time ago. Let's hope he has let things like hitting dogs with shovels and hanging them high go to the wayside as well.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I think he switched to Mals quite some time ago. Let's hope he has let things like hitting dogs with shovels and hanging them high go to the wayside as well.


Now they are doing a lot of PO with a few negative reinforcements for balance. Usually withholding food.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Look at MAWL's picture. I see a whole pack of WL dogs and one SL.


Don't forget, she's got more than what's in just her pictures....


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> Don't forget, she's got more than what's in just her pictures....


How could I forget? Can I post the number? :surprise:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> How could I forget? Can I post the number? :surprise:


There is just one more.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

astrovan2487 said:


> I would never take my dog to a dog park unless it was empty, too many chances of another person's out of control dog trying to attack her and then making her dog reactive or me getting in serious trouble for protecting my dog. But then again I'm extremely lucky, live on a farm/rural area and hardly even have to have my dog on a leash. At most dog parks I don't think it's a matter of if your dog will be attacked but when. Most pet owners do not have any control over their dogs and most also think their dogs do no wrong so when their dog goes charging at yours and your's tries to defend itself it not only will start a fight between the dogs but also the owners. I would not worry too much with socializing your pup with other dogs, working on getting all her focus on you will make future interactions with other dogs much more enjoyable.


 You said this so well.


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## labX (Dec 7, 2016)

Just came back from our usual dog park. Her day care was full for a few days and me and wife are fighting a flu like bug. So today she was off the wall .No amount of back yard time worked. 

Draged myself to the dog park. She got an hr off full speed running and playing with a few dogs. She is sleeping passed out .From experience I know we are good for the weekend. I will take her for 1/2 hr on Christmas before guest arrive so she will be all calm and well behaved.


Next year she will. Be 1 1/2 yr old so forced running like next to my bicycle will be possible. For now this is the only running she gets off leash with other dogs .In the day care she plays a bit in a big room .

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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> There are no guarantees there won't be any dog fights in a dog park any more than there are no guarantees that ill contained aggressive dogs won't get loose and attack your dog just walking around your neighborhood. Many people find the latter to be the more common danger.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You had good experiences, I've had bad ones. It's up to the owner if they are willing to take the risk.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Julian G said:


> You had good experiences, I've had bad ones. It's up to the owner if they are willing to take the risk.


I have had years and years of good experiences with multiple dogs. Most of the people that bash dog parks have little to no experience with dogs parks with many just going off of "somebody said".

If dogs parks were the cesspools that some would have you think they are, then dogs parks would be decreasing in numbers. In reality, new ones are cropping up every day.

That doesn't make your experiences any less, and that does not mean I never had bad experiences. 

If you read about other people's bad experiences, it usually revolves around food, toys, and dog fighting breeds. Like anything else, use them wisely and with responsibility.

Why don't you tell us about your bad experiences?


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

i go to dog parks. i don't care what leerberg does with his dogs. he's not god. when he sneezes it doesn't become law. it matters on your dog and how comfortable you are with the other dogs there.


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## Themusicmanswife (Jul 16, 2015)

I wish there were good dog parks around here. I was bit in the hand the last time by an ill mannered lab type dog. All the parks have toys, balls, and most owners not paying any attention. Dogs rushing the new comers. Resource guarding. My dog has done fine in them. She never cared much about the other dogs really. She'd rather play ball. It's too bad that there aren't better ones to give it a go at around here. They were more places that dog owners went to sit down while their dogs did whatever.


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