# Choke chains?



## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on choke chains? I don't like to use them for training but I had a "trainer" explain to me that I could not properly train my dog without one. Thoughts?


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I personally think they look nice, but have no value when it comes to training. My GSD has one for looks... for walks/training he wears a prong.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't get "they look nice, my dog has one for looks"?
Does your dog wear it all the time? 
I would never use a choke collar, there are better options. As far as the trainer saying a dog can't be trained without one, the evidence is overwhelming that he is wrong about that.

I do use a fursaver, but always on the dead ring, and it is never on my dog unless we are training.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

He wears it a lot, but not all the time and not when his prong is on. It has a nylon cord weaved into it. I bought it for looks, honestly. He looks good with it on. It's just cosmetic, nothing more.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

I've seen a few
oversized fur savers used as a back up collar for prongs on the dead ring. But otherwise viewed as outdated if I am perceiving correctly.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

OUbrat79 said:


> I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on choke chains? I don't like to use them for training but I had a "trainer" explain to me that I could not properly train my dog without one. Thoughts?


Train your dog to do _what_? Choke?

Because if the answer is anything else, that person's wrong.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

So to be devils advocate, do you not think, used correctly, that a choke chain can be another tool in training? 


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> So to be devils advocate, do you not think, used correctly, that a choke chain can be another tool in training?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If you are asking me I think it can be used if done properly. The person training with it today in no way use it properly. She jerked up on it so hard once that the dog she was walking yelped. In my opinion there should never be a point in training when the dog is hurt. 


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrs.P said:


> I've seen a few
> oversized fur savers used as a back up collar for prongs on the dead ring. But otherwise viewed as outdated if I am perceiving correctly.


I might be reading this wrong, but fursavers and choke chains are different. And fursavers are used in a lot of sports still. They are awesome because you can clip the leash anywhere on the collar. I hate the choke collars I *believe OP is referring to. I've never used my fursaver on the "live" ring, so I can't comment to the effectiveness of that. But I do love the ability to clip the leash on anywhere


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

I use a choke chain to train. Tried the flat collar and positive stuff and got nothing but a very reactive dog that way. Spent hundreds of dollars with a behaviorist trainer doing it her way. After my vet had to muzzle the dog to do an examination, he told me to get another trainer who used a different technique. He couldn't believe what my puppy had turned into since he had last seen him. New trainer and a choke collar has made a world of difference. Sorry, I don't believe that all dogs can be trained using only positive techniques. We use appropriate corrections when needed and praise when warranted.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Two of my dogs wear what is half choke and have nylon. My oldest is famous for slipping out of her collar and this one works well for her. I'm going to get the golden a regular flat collar next week. I do not use them for training purposes.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

What's the context around the trainer saying this? Just curious. Whether I agree or disagree, context is everything. Is this the protection trainer you mentioned in another thread?


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Odin24 said:


> I use a choke chain to train. Tried the flat collar and positive stuff and got nothing but a very reactive dog that way. Spent hundreds of dollars with a behaviorist trainer doing it her way. After my vet had to muzzle the dog to do an examination, he told me to get another trainer who used a different technique. He couldn't believe what my puppy had turned into since he had last seen him. New trainer and a choke collar has made a world of difference. Sorry, I don't believe that all dogs can be trained using only positive techniques. We use appropriate corrections when needed and praise when warranted.


Glad you found a method that worked for you and your dog! What kind of choke collar do you use?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't think any collar that can constrict should ever, ever be left on a dog unsupervised. 
Choke collars, slip collars, fursavers are for training, not for looks or holding tags. A martingale is safer, and dogs can't slip out of them. 
One reason many people use choke collars is because they are cheap. 
I hated them when I volunteered with a rescue, the dogs with no training were always put on choke collar because they were cheap and easy to slip on. 
Dogs were choking themselves as they pulled the volunteers all over the place.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

OUbrat79 said:


> I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on choke chains? I don't like to use them for training but I had a "trainer" explain to me that I could not properly train my dog without one. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
You can train a dog without the use of a choke chain. 

Personally I refuse to use them for any reason because they don't have a stopping point. They will cinch. They've been linked to damaged tracheas/airways and in some cases even death because they were not used properly. You'll get better, safer results from a prong collar. A prong collar has a stopping point. 

A dog wearing a choke chain also known as a slip chain will often pull and pull until they're hacking and coughing and still they'll pull. A dog on a prong collar is FAR less likely to do that. 

Many dogs have been trained without the use of anything but a flat collar, a regular leash and a patient handler.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

DaniFani said:


> What's the context around the trainer saying this? Just curious. Whether I agree or disagree, context is everything. Is this the protection trainer you mentioned in another thread?


Not for protection, just basic obedience. She refuses to use any other collar other than a choke chain. When the dog doesn't do the proper exercise, sit, heal, stay, she jerks it very hard upward. To me it seemed like a very harsh way of training. Especially for a dog that is very easy to train. 


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Find another trainer.....


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

llombardo said:


> Two of my dogs wear what is half choke and have nylon. My oldest is famous for slipping out of her collar and this one works well for her. I'm going to get the golden a regular flat collar next week. I do not use them for training purposes.



Isn't this a martingale? If so, it's not at all a choke collar because it has a stop (which choke collars do not have). This is a martingale:


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

DaniFani said:


> I might be reading this wrong, but fursavers and choke chains are different. And fursavers are used in a lot of sports still. They are awesome because you can clip the leash anywhere on the collar. I hate the choke collars I *believe OP is referring to. I've never used my fursaver on the "live" ring, so I can't comment to the effectiveness of that. But I do love the ability to clip the leash on anywhere




They're the same thing in my book. Fur saver only has bigger links to allegedly not break the fur vs smaller links on check chains. 

You can still give corrections with a fur saver -how effective they are meh. 

What I meant is using a fur saver or a check chain to give a correction seems to be less popular now -which is what I think the OP is talking about. 

They are required and worn but are they in use correction-wise? Checking out a few clubs in my area and it doesn't seem to be the case -prongs more prominent. 


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

OUbrat79 said:


> Not for protection, just basic obedience. She refuses to use any other collar other than a choke chain. When the dog doesn't do the proper exercise, sit, heal, stay, she jerks it very hard upward. To me it seemed like a very harsh way of training. Especially for a dog that is very easy to train.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I hate corrections on an ever-constricting collar(meaning there is no stopping point). That's why I like the fursaver, it can be clipped on any of the "dead" rings, and you can give a correction without pulling the fur, like a flat collar would.

The reason I asked the context is because I was wondering if she just didn't want to train on a flat collar, corrections on flat collars, or any pulling on a flat collar can pull the fur.

Does the dog know the commands she is giving a correction for disobeying? There shouldn't be corrections unless the dog KNOWS the command.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

OUbrat79 said:


> Not for protection, just basic obedience. She refuses to use any other collar other than a choke chain. When the dog doesn't do the proper exercise, sit, heal, stay, she jerks it very hard upward. To me it seemed like a very harsh way of training. Especially for a dog that is very easy to train.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is very old school and completely unnecessary. When I adopted my first gsd 25 years ago everyone used choke chains. Once I realized there were other options I threw all of the choke chains out. There are other tools out there that are much more effective and humane. And choke chains can cause physical damage through "normal" use. 

Incidentally, my dog almost strangled herself on her choke chain. The live ring got stuck in the slats of my deck and twisted. Luckily I heard her and rushed out and got her loose. I had friends who lost both of their dogs because they tied them out on the live end of the chokes. The dogs were playing, got tangled and both strangled.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Whatever collar you use, make sure your dog is safe.

https://m.facebook.com/127309670776...7110&wstart=0&wend=1370069999&ustart&refid=17
Dear Friends, I am reposting our original post and included location and state, as many of you have been asking for this information:: 

Dear Friends,

It is with great sadness that my fiancé Michael DiMaggio and I announce the death of our beloved English Bulldog Puppy, Sophia Belle. 

We have been beside ourselves with sadness, and have waited for the appropriate time to make her death public, as with the announcement of her death, we take on the responsibility of informing the public about those responsible for this tragedy. We are now ready to fight for our beloved Sophia Belle and to ensure her untimely death was not in vain. 

On the night of February 28th, I took Sophia to her Thursday night puppy class at Petco in Levittown, New York. We were working on loose leash walking, and as always, Sophia picked up her lessons immediately. My goal was for her to be a certified therapy dog, providing Animal Assissted Therapy to those in need. 

As Michael walked into the room that evening, Sophia barked to greet him. At this point her trainer decided this was an undesirable behavior, and pulled her by her leash until her front paws were dangling off of the ground. I still see Sophia’s wrinkles enveloping her face from the pressure of the collar on her neck. 

When she was let down, she immediately vomited several times, and then collapsed. She was gasping for air, and her breathing became increasingly labored. My fiancé and I tried to free her airway to see if she was choking, but her condition worsened. Blood began coming out of her mouth. 

The Petco staff was clearly not trained in any protocol in the event of an emergency. They stood there and watched as she was dying. Her trainer then attempted to get into her mouth and clear her airway.

An associate from the sales floor attempted to revive her unsuccessfully. We then rushed her down the road to the closest veterinarian that the trainer had retrieved from her cell phone. Again, Petco did not have this information available. 

Sophia had already begun to go into shock. Her lungs filled up with blood from her constricted airway, and her little heart gave out. 

We want to warn our fellow dog lovers, not to use Petco puppy class, as they have deemed that their trainer acted within their standard practice of care by restraining Sophia. I know that none of you would want your beloved family member to be treated in this manner, to be hurt or the ultimately die tragically.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrs.P said:


> They're the same thing in my book. Fur saver only has bigger links to allegedly not break the fur vs smaller links on check chains.
> 
> You can still give corrections with a fur saver -how effective they are meh.
> 
> ...


Fursavers are not used a lot correction-wise at my club, mainly because the dogs there don't even notice a correction on them, but honestly it really depends on the dog. My gsd is softer, so a light pop on his fursaver or a verbal correction is enough, doesn't need a pinch. It's all about the dog. 

I've been told a fursaver is better on the fur than a flat collar, but that's just been told to me. I don't have any experience on a flat.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

There are many methods of training, using a choke collar is just one and if used properly is effective and NOT abusive.

The word "choke collar" does not mean you actually choke your dog...geeez.

A quick and accurate correction is very effective. I personally see no issue if used properly.

Under no circumstance should this training collar be left on when not training.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

BowWowMeow said:


> This is very old school and completely unnecessary. When I adopted my first gsd 25 years ago everyone used choke chains. Once I realized there were other options I threw all of the choke chains out. There are other tools out there that are much more effective and humane. And choke chains can cause physical damage through "normal" use.
> 
> *Incidentally, my dog almost strangled herself on her choke chain. The live ring got stuck in the slats of my deck and twisted. Luckily I heard her and rushed out and got her loose. I had friends who lost both of their dogs because they tied them out on the live end of the chokes. The dogs were playing, got tangled and both strangled. *


Holy crap! That is awful. I don't, however, think it's an example of the TOOL being bad....both of these are complete owner errors. I don't like choke collars(I agree that there are much more effective, predictable, tools out there), but like every tool there are right and wrong ways to appropriately use them.


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I just ordered the martingale today. I will only be using it when walking...we have a pulling issue right now that I think can be corrected fairly easily.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

The choke collar has a place in training, it is one way to bring the drive down when needed. You just have to know the dog, there are very few dogs that can benefit from this form of training. Fine line between abuse and good training, your job to identify.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

DaniFani said:


> Does the dog know the commands she is giving a correction for disobeying? There shouldn't be corrections unless the dog KNOWS the command.


Both, it didn't matter to her if the dog knew the command or not, it was the same correction for both. 


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> Isn't this a martingale? If so, it's not at all a choke collar because it has a stop (which choke collars do not have). This is a martingale:


Very similar, but not a martingale, it actually connects like a regular nylon flat collar or can be slipped on and adjusted.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

I would maybe agree the prong is better, but I have used
'correcting' chains (in my book, if you're choking the dog,
it isn't being used correctly) for years and years. Doesn't
mean that people don't have problems with them, I know
they do, but personal experience is what I have to go by, and
I'm not giving mine up that I can see. First gsd had a chain
used on her for all of our walks, over 1200 miles a year for
many years, never a hint of any throat problems. She lived 
to 14 years 3 months.

I'd never allow it to be left on unless I have a hold of the leash
connected to it, not unattended EVER. 

I know opinions on it seem to run strongly against, and that's
okay.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I should clarify that my stories about strangling were unrelated to using it as a tool. Many people don't understand that it's dangerous to leave the choke on a dog because it has no stop so if the live ring gets caught on something the dog can strangle. 

Back when they were very popular I saw far more cases of choke chains being misused than used correctly and most people never really trained their dogs so it was self-correcting instead of being used as a real tool. But I often see the same thing with prong collars. People overcorrect or let their dogs self correct to the point where the dog yelps.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

BowWowMeow said:


> I should clarify that my stories about strangling were unrelated to using it as a tool. Many people don't understand that it's dangerous to leave the choke on a dog because it has no stop so if the live ring gets caught on something the dog can strangle.
> 
> Back when they were very popular I saw far more cases of choke chains being misused than used correctly and most people never really trained their dogs so it was self-correcting instead of being used as a real tool. But I often see the same thing with prong collars. People overcorrect or let their dogs self correct to the point where the dog yelps.


Oh I see those choke collars and prong collars used improperly CONSTANTLY, either the prong is way too loose at the base of the neck, or the choke is left on constantly, etc...for everything in life there will be people who use it improperly. Hence the reason our hairdryers have a tag that says, "do not use in bathtub or shower."......


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

DaniFani said:


> Oh I see those choke collars and prong collars used improperly CONSTANTLY, either the prong is way too loose at the base of the neck, or the choke is left on constantly, etc...for everything in life there will be people who use it improperly. Hence the reason our hairdryers have a tag that says, "do not use in bathtub or shower."......


This exactly! Ah that gave me a good laugh ! :rofl:


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## Swifty (May 11, 2013)

We have a Golden that would pull and pull and pull while wearing a choke-chain and wheeze the entire walk around the neighborhood so I didn't want to use one with our new GSD. I tried a halter or just a flat collar but neither worked to get her attention for training so I switched to the choke chain. It definitely helps _if used judiciously and correctly_, but once the training is established and she's older I plan on switching to something I don't have to babysit to make sure it's working correctly.


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

DaniFani said:


> Glad you found a method that worked for you and your dog! What kind of choke collar do you use?


During training class he is on a regular choke. When I'm working with him out of class he is on a martingale. He is reactive to other dogs and has no manners so the regular choke makes him a bit more respectful in class.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Swifty said:


> We have a Golden that would pull and pull and pull while wearing a choke-chain and wheeze the entire walk around the neighborhood so I didn't want to use one with our new GSD. I tried a halter or just a flat collar but neither worked to get her attention for training so I switched to the choke chain. It definitely helps _if used judiciously and correctly_, but once the training is established and she's older I plan on switching to something I don't have to babysit to make sure it's working correctly.


This would be an example of not using a choke c hain properly. The dog should not be pulling and wheezing.....hence using the collar to train, not to pull while walking.

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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Swifty said:


> We have a Golden that would pull and pull and pull while wearing a choke-chain and wheeze the entire walk around the neighborhood so I didn't want to use one with our new GSD. I tried a halter or just a flat collar but neither worked to get her attention for training so I switched to the choke chain. It definitely helps _if used judiciously and correctly_, but once the training is established and she's older I plan on switching to something I don't have to babysit to make sure it's working correctly.


This would be an example of not using a choke chain properly. The dog should not be pulling and wheezing.....hence using the collar to train not to pull while walking.

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## Swifty (May 11, 2013)

Saphire said:


> This would be an example of not using a choke chain properly. The dog should not be pulling and wheezing.....hence using the collar to train not to pull while walking.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Agreed. I got her when she was 6 or so and switched to just the flat collar for walks when I saw her doing this. She's eager to please so with the flat collar and some retraining she walks easily now. Our GSD still needs correction now and again, but is improving and I plan to transition to something I don't have to babysit when she's at a calmer age.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Here is a great article on teaching loose leash walking. I trained Rafi using similar techniques and he walks beautifully on the leash. I used collars and corrections for all of my other dogs and none ever walked well until they got older and tired of pulling. 

How to Teach Loose Leash Walking to Your Dog - Whole Dog Journal Article


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

BowWowMeow said:


> Here is a great article on teaching loose leash walking. I trained Rafi using similar techniques and he walks beautifully on the leash. I used collars and corrections for all of my other dogs and none ever walked well until they got older and tired of pulling.
> 
> How to Teach Loose Leash Walking to Your Dog - Whole Dog Journal Article


I am not disputing there are many other effective training methods...I am saying using a choke collar is just one effective method if used correctly. I have trained several dogs over the years using a choke collar with fantastic results....CD titles on all 3 of my Siberian Huskies including a high in trial. I had an amazing and well respected trainer who to this day I have immense respect. Choke collars are not for young puppies and repeated incorrect corrections would in my mind be considered abusive thus the importance of finding a good trainer very important. To say choke collars are abusive and wrong because people use them incorrectly is a blanket statement which is misleading and wrong. I don't like shock collars but I am open minded enough to feel there may be a place and time where it could be effective wih some dogs. So, in the right hands a choke collar, shock collar, pinch collar etc. can be an effective training tool. 
I am in the midst of training my dog Gus to hopefully to be successful SAR dog. I have a wonderful trainer and I am using training methods that are new and foreign to me....all about keeping an open mind and doing what you feel is best for your dog.

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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Ever seen the choke hold on show dogs during shows? Dogs are coughing, gagging, and sometimes barely walking on their front legs to avoid strangulation. Another cruel component is that these "pretty, fine-jewelry" resembling collars are way too sharp (too thin). I wish the use of these would be banned.


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## Diesel and Lace (Apr 15, 2013)

The only value we see in a choke collar is that it is a back up for the prong collar. Kind of our safety net. Like should we put the prong on wrong and it come off there is a second collar there to catch him. Not many people use a choke collar properly and if they do they are doing exactly that choking the dog and making them make a decision between air or what they want. You can collapse their trachea with them or have them turn on you because they want air so badly. I believe the prong collar is more humane and delivers the right amount of correction to the action. In under 2 weeks our dog went from a wild elephant that we could not control to a dog who walks on a loose leash needing very minor if any correction from the passing squirrel.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Ever seen the choke hold on show dogs during shows? Dogs are coughing, gagging, and sometimes barely walking on their front legs to avoid strangulation. Another cruel component is that these "pretty, fine-jewelry" resembling collars are way too sharp (too thin). I wish the use of these would be banned.


But this is just another example of it being used wrong....so because someone decides to blow dry their hair in the bath tub and electocutes and kills themselves...ban all hairdryers!!!! Silly silly silly logic....


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

my trainer refuses to use pronged collar. I persoanlly would never use one anyway. If anyone shows up with that type of collar it's either taken off or they leave the class. 

She does suggest using a choke chain. This is the type we use. It's very effective. There has not been one dog in class who has been choking or gasping for air. If the dog is the collar is not being used correctly. 

I also like the martingale collar.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

trcy said:


> my trainer refuses to use pronged collar. I persoanlly would never use one anyway. If anyone shows up with that type of collar it's either taken off or they leave the class.
> 
> *She does suggest using a choke chain. This is the type we use. It's very effective. There has not been one dog in class who has been choking or gasping for air. If the dog is the collar is not being used correctly.
> 
> I also like the martingale collar*.


That's just funny to me that she will go as far as kicking someone out for a prong...but uses chokes and martingales....silliness. It's amazing the emotions the sight of a tool can invoke in some people....To each their own I guess....I wouldn't trust a trainer that "can't handle" a tool, even when used correctly and fairly...especially if she is using similar tools. But that's just me.


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

I started working with a trainer about month ago and he only uses choke collar. After a few session I felt as training was going nowhere and my boy been choke to point of passing out. (We have some leash reactivity issues) so I ask here on forum and trainer if prong would be better and for us it does, could be because I had hard time to work choke collar properly.


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Choke Chains are just that, a tool for training. I like them and have used them successfully the same way I've used flat collars, prongs, and Martingales. If used properly, they can be very effective.


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## EquusAmor (Apr 2, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Two of my dogs wear what is half choke and have nylon. My oldest is famous for slipping out of her collar and this one works well for her. I'm going to get the golden a regular flat collar next week. I do not use them for training purposes.


Same here. Every dog I have ever owned (or my family has ever owned) we have used choke chains on. Not for training, but because we could never make regular collars tight enough that the dogs couldn't slip out of them which led to many dog chases hoping the dog wouldn't get hit. My family used them on our two keeshonds and OES and now I use one on my Golden. He has a nylon one though not chain. Took me a month to convince my bf to let me get one (after the dog had slipped out of his normal one twice)


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## Odin24 (Jun 29, 2007)

trcy said:


> my trainer refuses to use pronged collar. I persoanlly would never use one anyway. If anyone shows up with that type of collar it's either taken off or they leave the class.
> 
> She does suggest using a choke chain. This is the type we use. It's very effective. There has not been one dog in class who has been choking or gasping for air. If the dog is the collar is not being used correctly.
> 
> I also like the martingale collar.


This is the same choke chain I use. With the toggle, you can get the correct size and it stays up high on the neck where it should be. There is very little loose chain and only a little movement of the hand will deliver a correction. Plus, I was taught to use sideways corrections with this collar, never to jerk upwards or choke the dog. When put on the dog correctly, the chain will release the pressure when the leash is loose. A quick pop and release, not a choke hold.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

Odin24 said:


> This is the same choke chain I use. With the toggle, you can get the correct size and it stays up high on the neck where it should be. There is very little loose chain and only a little movement of the hand will deliver a correction. Plus, I was taught to use sideways corrections with this collar, never to jerk upwards or choke the dog. When put on the dog correctly, the chain will release the pressure when the leash is loose. A quick pop and release, not a choke hold.


We do side corrections also.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

You should always be suspicious of a trainer who tells you training without this tool or that is impossible. Suspicious as in...find another trainer


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

AgileGSD said:


> You should always be suspicious of a trainer who tells you training without this tool or that is impossible. Suspicious as in...find another trainer


Mine didn't say it was impossible. She said she does not like prong collars and won't allow them in class. She gave as options on many different collars and the ones she likes and the ones she does not prefer. I didn't always use the choker. I like the martingale and she was fine with me using it. 

I suppose if somebody, for whatever reason, was insistent on using a prong collar and resistant to any other collar then they may have needed to find a new trainer.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Put a choke chain on your thigh and give yourself a correction. Then so the same with a prong. Hen come talk about not using prongs. I'm not anti choke chains but let me tell you, those things hurt when given a correction (as in a pop) I got a major welt. Prong-nothing. Your trainer needs to educate herself. 


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh and I was originally trained to we choke chains, koehler method originally. Now I use marker, clicker, prongs and e collars. I prefer not to use choke chains. 


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

Capone22 said:


> Oh and I was originally trained to we choke chains, koehler method originally. Now I use marker, clicker, prongs and e collars. I prefer not to use choke chains.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


to each there own. The choker did not hurt me when I put it on myself and gave a pop. It's not a full strength correction. If it left a welt you may be correcting with to much force.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog had a flat collar on untill he was 9 months old. then
i switched to a choker. when i switched to the choker my dog
knew how to heel. once a dog is trained not to pull i don't see
what difference a collar makes.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

trcy said:


> to each there own. The choker did not hurt me when I put it on myself and gave a pop. It's not a full strength correction. If it left a welt you may be correcting with to much force.


You put it around your neck, right?


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