# Mals vs. GSDs



## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Before you shoot me for another one of these threads, I am not truly looking for the differences. I have finally met both breeds and I have read more than a handful of information about how they are two completely different breeds.

I have found though that people who have Malis are biased against GSDs and vice versa. Why is this? Why can't people like them both for what they are? Why are certain people more willing to admit that a Mali CAN live in the house? I think too many people equate VERY high drive with VERY high energy. Yes, a Mali can be both, but that doesn't mean they are impossible to live with. Obviously everyone has a different tolerance. 

Guess I'm just looking for some opinions as I know some of you will agree with me and some will disagree. I LOVE the Mali before AND after I met three of them with different personalities. BUT, I also love the GSD. I am still on the fence with which breed I want. I thought the decision would get easier, but it got harder. -_____-


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I think it's because people are always comparing the two.

You don't see Pomeranian owners competing with GSD owners over which breed is the toughest or best protection.
But it happens with those breeds because they are often used similarly (police or bite work) so always get compared to one other.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I like them both. I wished I could have a Hollandse Herder on top of it but I can't possibly take onto another dog.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Agreed for both of your comments. I would love a GSD, a Mali, and a DS. I would love to get the chance to work all three of them personally.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I guess I'm a little confused, because you are making statements about living with a mal when you don't actually own a mal.

I personally can't stand when people compare the two. They are two completely different breeds. Certainly, comparisons and contrasts can be made, but the same could be said for comparing my three GSD's as opposed to comparing any of them to my mal. And if you compared my mal to another mal, there would likely be just as many differences. As someone else pointed out, it's like comparing a pomeranian to a border collie. Sure it can be done, but why? For what purpose? They aren't the same breed.

I think the #1 problem people have with a mal living in the house is a LACK of exercise, training, mental stimulation, and they try to crate it all the time. I would say the same for many GSD's and other breeds as well though. So that's JMHO

There are also a ton of misconceptions out there, IE: "A Malinois is a GSD on crack."


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## BrianB (Oct 26, 2011)

Why wouldnt you like when people compare Mals and Shepherds? They are similar dogs, ie both herding and used for police, sch, tracking etc. It is not like comparing a shepherd to a pointer.

I think alot depends on the breeder but I did examine getting a Mal because they are smaller and shed less but have similar characteristics to a GSD as far as trainability and working. But, I spoke with the local training facility that trains police dogs (and they do not breed or sell dogs so i think pretty independant) and they said the GSD are more forgiving and are easier to handle. Obviously alot depends on the traits and temperment of the parents/lines. Alot of Mal guys would say the GSD is overbred and so at least with a Mal you know what you are getting. So it can go either way......


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I love mals. I have never seen one that I didn't like. German shepherds are my breed and I've seen a ton of them that I did not like. I guess because I cosider german shepherds my breed I am way more critical of them. How ever I have also heard a ton of critisim of german shepherds from the mal crowd.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

I apologize Rerun for making such statements, but I am going off of the information I have learned thus far from reading information on here to asking people who actually LIVE with Mals in their home. I know it can be done, some people just don't seem to want it to be done or don't want to and would rather have a kennel dog.

I like Brian's point. I like comparing the two breeds, just not when it's a bunch of breed bashing and "my breed is tougher than your breed" type stuff. They are similar breeds because they are both from the same group and have similar purposes. A majority of sport owners have one or the other or have had both.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

A friend of mine has a mal, he's 11 now so not nearly as drivey and dominant as he used to be but its just not a "pet dog." Because the breed is so new in the United States it hasn't been bred for pet homes yet. My friends that got one, got it because they wanted a GSD that shed less, they went to a breeder who gave them the "least drivey" dog he had. The siblings all did some sort of police/sar work and this one was placed in a pet home where it was excersised regularly but nothing like it needed. He was trained more than the average dog but still not enough for the kind of dog he was. We went to the park a few weeks ago with this dog, and he still tried to submit/attack my 16 month GSD. He didn't care that he was slower/less powerful/older and could've seriously been hurt, he was just that kind of dog.

To this day my friends will admit that they made a mistake, but they managed to get by with him. So that's really the biggest difference I see, with a mal you pretty much have to do work, schutzhund/hardcore obedience/tracking/ANYTHING, where as you can easily find a GSD today that will be perfectly fine as a couch potato or just need a lot less stimulation than a full working GSD.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Vicky said:


> I have found though that people who have Malis are biased against GSDs and vice versa. Why is this? Why can't people like them both for what they are?


Because some people think that any breed other than the one they own couldn't possibly be as good, and some people have ego's so large there's no room for admitting that the dog next door is better than their own. 

I can understand why people compare them, they are similar in many ways but yep, two different breeds. The traits of a Mal aren't diminished by the accomplishments of a GSD and vice versa.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Because some people think that any breed other than the one they own couldn't possibly be as good, and some people have ego's so large there's no room for admitting that the dog next door is better than their own.
> 
> I can understand why people compare them, they are similar in many ways but yep, two different breeds. The traits of a Mal aren't diminished by the accomplishments of a GSD and vice versa.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Vicky said:


> I like Brian's point.


LOL well you are certainly free to choose whose perspective you "like"  but when you post on a public BB you'll get all opinions. My personal opinion is that each breed has their strengths and weaknesses, and I *personally* don't like comparing the two because most they are two completely different breeds and I think it's pointless to compare them. Just within the GSD alone, you have such a variety of different temperaments, traits, working ability, etc. Different lines, different personalities, different drives within each personal dog. You can make some generalizations on each "line" (such as ASL, WGSL, WGWL, EGWL, so on and so forth). The same can be said for mals. So you may have person A who is comparing GSD type A to malinois type B and then you have person B who is comparing GSD type B to malinois type C, and on and on.

You will quickly find that the vast majority of people on a GSD forum who reply about mals have little to no actual experience with the breed. There are PLENTLY of people who who know mals far better than I do. But most here don't have any experience with them at all.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Ford vs Chevy... Same thing


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Obviously if you are doing your research you are going to choose a breeder (or rescue) who has dogs (or a dog) that best match whatever you're looking for. There is a great deal of variety across the gsd breed and variety across mals as well. If you have narrowed it down to these two breeds then I'm sure that can be found in either a gsd or a mal.


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

BR870 said:


> Ford vs Chevy... Same thing


Best post yet !


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

BR870 said:


> Ford vs Chevy... Same thing


It's say BMW vs Volkswagen not the same thing.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Rerun said:


> LOL well you are certainly free to choose whose perspective you "like"  but when you post on a public BB you'll get all opinions. My personal opinion is that each breed has their strengths and weaknesses, and I *personally* don't like comparing the two because most they are two completely different breeds and I think it's pointless to compare them. Just within the GSD alone, you have such a variety of different temperaments, traits, working ability, etc. Different lines, different personalities, different drives within each personal dog. You can make some generalizations on each "line" (such as ASL, WGSL, WGWL, EGWL, so on and so forth). The same can be said for mals. So you may have person A who is comparing GSD type A to malinois type B and then you have person B who is comparing GSD type B to malinois type C, and on and on.
> 
> You will quickly find that the vast majority of people on a GSD forum who reply about mals have little to no actual experience with the breed. There are PLENTLY of people who who know mals far better than I do. But most here don't have any experience with them at all.


Okay, and as I said, I appreciate everyone's opinion. It's not that I don't like what everyone has to say, just certain people who I agree with more than others. 

You're right, but there are people on here who have had Mals. This also isn't the only forum I'm asking opinions on. It's nice to hear both sides of the coin since certain people are biased, some are ignorant, and others actually are a wealth of information.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I am a GSD person through and through. While I have enjoyed watching many Mals in obedience and appreciate the good dogs I have had the privilege to see and train with they are not for me. There is a nervous energy about them that I have never liked. I also don't care for how they look. Of course there are GSD I would never own and many other breeds that while I may enjoy watching them work I don't want to own them. 

When I was in Germany I got to watch the training at a VERY VERY good Mali club with one of the best Mali teams in the country. After watching 8 Mali work in protection it was wonderful when one of the GSD came out to work. There is a difference and, for me, the GSD difference will always be what draws me to the breed. 

I think you will always have "fighting" between the Mal and GSD people. The two breeds are very much in competition with each other in sport and the working world. Just the nature of the beast. Ford Vs. Chevy is an excellent comparison and the passion runs about as high.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Mals are very nice looking.But I have never met one. But I agree with Rerun, 2 completely different breeds so no reason to compare to unless for certain reasons like police,military, and other work. People on both sides will always say one is better than the other.

I wouldn't mind owning a Mal, but not until I am way more experienced.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have a friend who has had gsd's her entire life and multiples, she now has a mal as well,,loves her to death, but she is NOT a gsd...

I also have many other friends with mals, and they also don't compare them to gsd's.

Herders, yes, good obed dogs, yes, good at agility, yes, good at alot of things, YES, but unless you've lived with one or are in close proximity to one that you are quite familiar with, they are not alike.

I like mals, would love to have one,,and I mean ONE but I wouldn't want one with the high energy girl I have now, for me it would be to much.

The majority of mals I meet are high strung, jumpy, most friendly, some not. They have a whole different set of 'quirks' than gsd's..

If you want one, hey go for it, I'm honestly not trying to dissuade you,,just trying to say, it is like comparing apples to oranges.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Vicky said:


> Okay, and as I said, I appreciate everyone's opinion. It's not that I don't like what everyone has to say, just certain people who I agree with more than others.
> 
> You're right, but there are people on here who have had Mals. This also isn't the only forum I'm asking opinions on. It's nice to hear both sides of the coin since certain people are biased, some are ignorant, and others actually are a wealth of information.


The people you are agreeing with do not have malinois experience. Nor do you. So just a bit of advice, when you ask about a particular breed, you should listen to those of us who actually own and live with said breed.


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## BrianB (Oct 26, 2011)

Rerun said:


> The people you are agreeing with do not have malinois experience. Nor do you. So just a bit of advice, when you ask about a particular breed, you should listen to those of us who actually own and live with said breed.


You say you own the breed (and I also assume a GSD) but have not provided any insight to help the discussion except whine because you dont like comparisons. If you dont like when people compare the breeds why did you enter the thread?

I think it is a valid discussion because alot of people that want a working GSD may also consider a Malinois and vice versa. I did for one and decided to stick with the GSD. You say they are so different, well what are the differences?


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

what is the difference?

One is a german shepherd, one is a belgian malinois. I said I don't care to compare and contrast, so why you would think I am going to is beyond me. I answered op's question, I'm not too inclined to debate with you about my answer.

Have a lovely day.


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## depthnerd (Aug 20, 2011)

Coming from an owner who has had both breeds, I prefer the Belgian Malinois. In no way am I saying I dislike German Shepherds, but the Mals seem (at least to my wife and I) to have a slight edge. Ours is about 3 and 1/2 months old and exhibits traits and intelligence our GSD lacked, or took longer for the GSD to pick up.

Our Mal puppy is absolutely great in the home as well. He is perfectly fine with being crated for 8 hours, although, we make up for it by providing tons of exercise in the morning before work and when we get home. If he doesn't receive the exercise and mental stimulation he needs, you can tell because he'll act out (but this outcome is typically the same with any under exercised dog). For the most part, he seems to have an "on" and "off" switch. Outside in the yard is play time. As soon as we come in and are in the living room, it's lounge time. He grabs his favorite chew toy and has his spot on the floor where he lays down and relaxes.

I should also mention that we have a cat and he gets along perfectly with the feline devil (she torments him by sitting outside of his crate and staring at him, she'll sit on the stairs overlooking him since he's not allowed in our upstairs level yet, tries to get him to chase her, etc). Also my niece and nephew (6 and 4) come over to play with him and he's very gentle with them.

When it came down to getting a GSD, we had our eyes set on a puppy from Megan Judge at Haus Juris, but ultimately after speaking to my homeowner's insurance, we were forced to get a different breed or they threatened to drop our coverage. We got the Belgian Malinois from a reputable Mal and GSD breeder (Broadcreek Kennels). The advantages with going with the Mal was that they shed less, are a smaller size (longer life expectancy), and exhibit a little more intelligence. Eventually when we outgrow our current house and move, as long as the homeowner's insurance allows a GSD, we will look into another Mal or GSD puppy.

It ultimately comes down to what it is you are looking for in a dog, and which breed fits your needs the closest.

By the way, here's a link to my thread:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...t/168455-non-gsd-member-here.html#post2309414


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## BrianB (Oct 26, 2011)

As I mentioned I did a comparison of the Mal to the GSD and decided to go with the GSD. Here is what it come down to:

I liked the idea of the Malinois because (other than the obvious similarities to the GSD in trainability) they are smaller, shed less, are not really on any insurance watch lists and because they are not as common they wont be as overbred and would be more consistent from dog to dog. The down side for me in my research was more often than not they are higher energy, especially indoors than a GSD. Also based on discussions with trainers they are not as easygoing as a GSD and forgiving when training. This advice was provided by trainers that work with both breeds and even a Malinois breeder I spoke to. The other deciding factor was my last dog was a GSD and I was happy with him.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I LOVE Broadcreek dogs Another good friend of mine has one who just turned 14 years old Broadcreek's dogs are pretty versatile doing mostly conformation, but alot of herding/obed/tracking etc..Their dogs do tend to be on the larger size for mals

My friends broadcreek dog, is as large as my GSD, he has his 'quirks' but definately not as quirky as some of the mals i've seen..I shoulda taken him when she wanted to give him to me HE is one I would happily be able to live with.

And depthnerd, I don't know how I missed your other pics..HE IS CUTE!!!!!!


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Ok I am going to try to respond to everyone who gave me a detailed response. Nothing against anyone else, I promise. I appreciate all you guys posting!

BR870, I agree with this comparison as I am a car girl. I love Ford, but I currently drive a Chevy and I have a friend who won't touch anything other than a Ford.

BowWowMeow, I agree. Now that I have seen the breeds (and will be seeing some more) it has helped. I am now going to focus on researching different lines and really honing in on the personality that I want. It's becoming more and more clear to me as I learn more.

lhczth, I can completely see what you're saying. A few people at the PSA club I was with this past weekend had a similar mentality. The woman with two GSDs commented on how much she liked watching them work, but would never, ever own one. She is heavily attached to her breed, much like a lot of you guys are. 

Jessiewessie, I see what you mean, but I think there is a reason to compare them number one because they are primarily the two breeds I am looking at so of course I am going to compare their pros and cons and see what people think of the two. Second, just as you said, the breeds as far as working goes deserve to be compared. We can agree to disagree and that is perfectly fine for everyone else that doesn't agree with me. If you don't agree with comparing them then you can respectfully stay away from this thread. I am just looking to see what people think of the topic besides disagreeing with it as a whole. That isn't helpful to me and I don't mean that in a nasty way, but really.

Jakoda, I see what you mean as well with only having one dog. That's one of the reasons I am being so careful about picking my breed. I will want another dog, but it will have to wait a couple of years so I want to be truly happy with the dog I pick. This dog is going to be my pride and joy, my baby, my working/training partner, etc. I want to do this right. 

Rerun, I take offense to your most recent post. I am listening to the people who have experience but I like to hear everyone out as well as most people on here have at least seen a Mali work. It's nice to hear different perspectives even though the members who own Malis will be the most help as far as experience goes. I spoke with three different people who OWN Malinois in person and will be speaking to a breeder and several more people who OWN them. I'm doing my best here and I think I'm doing a **** good job seeing as some people just go out and buy the first breed they like the looks of. Thank you for your input thus far, but your comments are not helpful anymore. 

depthnerd, your dog was a **** cute puppy! Thank you for your detailed post. The information you provided was helpful.

Brian, I also like that they are smaller, faster, react quicker, etc. I like their quirks. Obviously I won't know exactly what it's like to live with them until I actually live with one, but I love the way they work. After watching a Mali work, I am just completely taken by it. In my opinion that will be worth the quirks in the house and them being "annoying" as many have put it on and off this board/other forums. They are a lot like the type of horses that I really like. I LOVE Thoroughbreds off the track. I mean a lot of them have serious issues, which I won't willingly want in a dog, but their personalities are similar. They are always "on edge", very sensitive and quick to respond to aids/commands, etc. I love that personality. Yes, the TBs are usually hard keepers and don't fare as well as warmbloods or Quarter Horses, but that doesn't stop me from liking TBs. That is partly how I look at it in dogs as well. GSDs remind me more of warmbloods.

I apologize if any of my post came off as defensive or nasty. I am really eager to learn and am getting myself out there and seeing dogs in person and not just sitting on the internet so I think I deserve some credit. I have contacted a handful of breeders as well for their input and now will be doing heavy research into different lines of GSDs and Malis.

EDIT: My starred out "curse words" are not as bad as they seem. It is just the word that starts with D and ends with AMN. Not trying to be vulgar!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I believe Rerun HAS a malinois

Ok, I'd like to ask, what "quirks" specifically do you 'think' mals have?

Again, I'm not trying to dissuade you from a mal,,I do think however, finding a breeder who is not breeding over the top/quack jobs/ who react first and think later, is going to be key.

My suggestion, go with showlines for what your looking for..Broadcreek is one I'd suggest.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

lhczth said:


> I am a GSD person through and through. While I have enjoyed watching many Mals in obedience and appreciate the good dogs I have had the privilege to see and train with they are not for me. There is a nervous energy about them that I have never liked. I also don't care for how they look. Of course there are GSD I would never own and many other breeds that while I may enjoy watching them work I don't want to own them.


I think Lisa summed it up for me. There is something "squirrley" about them I don't care for. But obviously mal people love them  And they get compared so often because they are, indeed, very similar when push comes to shove. Yes, they are their own breed, but a Mal is probably the best comparison to a GSD as far as generalities. It's not like someone debating between a GSD and a Malipoo. 

At the end of the day, people just have their preferences. This is a GSD forum, so the majority of people will say "ew! Not a MAL!" and when you are on a Mal forum, the majority of people will say "ew! Not a GSD!"

In fact, just last Friday I had a Mal person who does French Ring tell me "if there were more GSD's like your dog I might actually like the breed." Um, there are LOTS of GSD's like mine! Open your eyes! He just lives in a heavily dominated world of Mal's, sees the occasional BYB type that come to his club in denial their dog can do bite work, and he considers that a representation of the breed. 

Although, ironically, one of the main things he likes about my dog is the fact he's got low thresholds...which is one of MY least favorite things about him!

Just comes down to preference. One day you can own both if you can't decide  I think you can get what you want out of a GSD. it's just up to you to find a breeder who is breeding something a little more reactive, quicker, sportier, etc.

For me, there is nothing a Mal can do that can beat coming home at the end of a long day and burying your face into the long, lucious double coat of a GSD for a hug.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

GSDElsa said:


> In fact, just last Friday I had a Mal person who does French Ring tell me "if there were more GSD's like your dog I might actually like the breed." Um, there are LOTS of GSD's like mine! Open your eyes! He just lives in a heavily dominated world of Mal's, sees the occasional BYB type that come to his club in denial their dog can do bite work, and he considers that a representation of the breed.
> 
> Although, ironically, one of the main things he likes about my dog is the fact he's got low thresholds...which is one of MY least favorite things about him!


Ughhh... I hate that attitude. It might be a FordvChevy thing, but at the end of the day I still think of Mals as the number 2 coolest dogs. In fact GSDs, Mals, and Dutchies or so similar and so far above the rest of the pack I don't see how a person could like one and not the others. Sure, we can all have our favorite of the three, but they are so similar that most of what you like in one will be found in the other two.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

BR870 said:


> Ughhh... I hate that attitude. It might be a FordvChevy thing, but at the end of the day I still think of Mals as the number 2 coolest dogs. In fact GSDs, Mals, and Dutchies or so similar and so far above the rest of the pack I don't see how a person could like one and not the others. Sure, we can all have our favorite of the three, but they are so similar that most of what you like in one will be found in the other two.



I love all 3 although GSDs are my favorite, I was this close to getting a dutchie a couple of months back. one day, when i have time, space, energy and finances, i might have all 3 breeds, they are very similar, with sometime subtle some times not so subtle differences. but thats what makes each one of them special as its own breed, otherwise we can mesh all 3 together and get one dog. 
Malshepuch dog


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I believe Rerun HAS a malinois


Yes, I do. 

The older my dog has gotten, the fewer similarities I've seen. I think it's interesting that generally, people who actually OWN both breeds, don't really find many similarities, but those who don't own both breeds compare and contrast them. When mine was a small pup I used to compare and contrast too, till one day I realized there really weren't any similarities other than they were both black and brown, with perky ears, and used in similar sports. Border collies are a herding breed too, and no one is out there comparing them to the GSD. 

So yeah, I still stand by my original statement. If OP wants to take advice from people that don't own mals, then OP will be in for a real shocker if she actually gets a mal and expects it to be anything like a GSD.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

If I said anywhere in my post that Rerun doesn't have a Mali, then I apologize. 

One of their quirks seems to be that they react first and think later. I appreciate your advice but I've spoken with working line breeders who don't breed "quack job" dogs depending on what you mean by that. A lot of people see Mals as crazy because that's their personality. Every breeder I've talked to has said they are not for the faint of heart, which is why I'm drawn to them! They are bouncy, ridiculously energetic, zesty, they sometimes can't contain their own energy and just do silly things, etc. I love that about them. I also love the way that they work. It's just not the same as a GSD, in good and bad ways. And this is completely just my opinion. I love both breeds and I'm NOT crossing GSDs out by any means. I'm just being very picky with breeders because there are so many that I just don't like and there's a lot more GSD breeders for me to weed through. I contacted Adler Stein recently and she MIGHT have a breeding out of her stud who I really, really like in the perfect time frame that I would need. I need to research the dam more, but if that breeding works out in my favor, then GSD it is because I really like her dogs and her breeding program, philosophies, etc. 

If anyone wants me to elaborate on that, please just let me know.

EDIT: I'm sorry if I came off as if I didn't think you owned a Mali, Rerun. 

I do think you are a good source of information because you actually OWN both breeds. However, I have a good reason for comparing them because I can't own both at this time even though I probably will aspire to in the future. I don't think people compare Border Collies because they aren't used in police work/bitework and such. 

I'm taking advice from EVERYONE. Just because I said I liked someone's comment doesn't mean I value their opinion over yours. There's no need to get offended and think that I'm ignoring your posts because I'm not. I'm a year away from getting ANY dog and have only met a handful of Mals and working GSDs. I have a long way to go and will know a LOT more about each breed before I actually decide on a breed/litter/breeder.


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## Zarr (Feb 28, 2010)

"One of their quirks seems to be that they react first and think later" - this is one of the reasons why I am loyal to the German Shepherd..."they think first generally". Many more reasons I gravitate towards a German Shepherd, I could rattle on for paragraphs as to why I think everyone should want a breed that has been around for decades and proven itself worthy in so many phases of life, such as the German Shepherd....however..... it is like the age old comparisons -Ford-Chevy...Cat-Dog...Spicy food-non spicy food...Hot-Cold...Shower-Bath........at the end of the long day, we take ppl for how we see them, we take dogs for how we personally *see* them - we all like what we like, and only *we* can decide what we prefer most in our lives.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Very insightful, Zarr.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Anyone else have experiences with Mals that they would like to share? I know the one I have been around is like a working line GSD on crack. Very dominant, very driven, and is the "bite first, think later" type of dog. Are there show line Mals that are more laid back, and could get by with the amount of exercise a show line GSD requires? I picture a breed that is highly driven, I understand that on average they will have much more drive/energy than a working line GSD even does, but there have to be a few outliers. Are there people that breed for these outliers? Or people that do try and breed a "pet quality" Mal?

I don't get why people get so mad when someone asked them to compare/contrast the two breeds? Thats how people decide what they want. If someone asked to compare the difference between a GSD and a terrier would we get all angry because they're different breeds? I'd like to know what the difference is, I've seen it first hand but with one dog and I would like to find out more also.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Dunno why you think I am "angry" about comparing them. I simply said that *in my opinion* they are not similar enough to compare, so personally speaking, I don't do it. I really don't understand why people are up in arms over me having that opinion.They're my dogs and if I believe they are different as night and day, that's my opinion to share. I live with both. Others do as well. My only beef is that people that don't own or regularly work with the breed really shouldn't be providing input on the breed. It's funny to read accounts of how they are from people who don't actually have them.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

I think there are enough similiaritites and differences between the breeds and within each individual breed, that if you want one you NEED to go out and see the dogs, find the ones you like, and get them from where they got their dogs from.

i've met enough mal's that were nervy, flighty no brained biting crap, that had more drive than brains, which is why they could do sports, otherwise they were a trainwreck.

I've met enough GSD's that were cowards, with no drive and a fluffy coat of fur.

and i've met everything in between. I say it all the time. I have never seen a Mal with something I haven't seen a GSD with or vice versa. From always on the go, to unbelievably controllable drive, to about any conglomerate of traits you could think of. 

So, go see the dogs, find the type you like and find out who's breeding those dogs.


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## Lmilr (Jan 12, 2011)

On the "bite first, think later" thing about Mals....from my experience I view this not as a 'they aren't thinking it through thing' so much as that they have just done it so much faster and it's much more instinctual. They have already assessed the situation and have determined the appropriate action (in their minds at least) long before most dogs even realize there is an issue.

But that's just from my experience with a few of my friends Mals and a couple of the Mals from my dogs breeder.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

crackem said:


> I think there are enough similiaritites and differences between the breeds and within each individual breed, that if you want one you NEED to go out and see the dogs, find the ones you like, and get them from where they got their dogs from.
> 
> i've met enough mal's that were nervy, flighty no brained biting crap, that had more drive than brains, which is why they could do sports, otherwise they were a trainwreck.
> 
> ...


:thumbup: Amen. Even in the short time I've been training I've seen exampls of both breeds that run the gambit of drive and temperament. And I've also seen the breed bias, and then those who don't give a rip about breed they just want a dog that works well. 

In fact, just in my training club, I see exactly what you're describing. The trainer/decoy is a Mal-fanatic, doesn't really care for GSDs in general. He has two male Mals, one he likes and one he doesn't. These two dogs are even from some of the same lines, but they are so different it's amazing. 
The one the trainer likes is a crazy SOB, will routinely loose his head in bitework and tag his handler. Ball drive coming out his ears. And he is always thinking about bitework, always. 

And then the second dog (not his owner's favorite), really couldn't care less about a ball. He loves bitework, but he is much more about the fight. He is completely stable in the house and around kids. Reminds me more of what people consider common in a GSD. 
Both dogs raised and trained from puppies by the same handler. 

And then my GSD, the trainer loves. She has certain traits and attitude that he likes to see in his Mals. Go figure


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Loving the posts, guys.

To be honest, I really think that despite the wide range of temperaments and personalities that can be found in one breed, the characteristics and versatility of the German Shepherd is much more suited for what I would like than a Malinois. I love both breeds, don't get me wrong, but a Malinois just does not seem to be a fit breed for filling both the role of a trusty companion and a working dog. This is going off of breed standards as well even though some people argue the validity of this. I think the standards are a good guide as to what these breeds should be.


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## jm513 (Oct 9, 2011)

Rerun said:


> Dunno why you think I am "angry" about comparing them. I simply said that *in my opinion* they are not similar enough to compare, so personally speaking, I don't do it. I really don't understand why people are up in arms over me having that opinion.They're my dogs and if I believe they are different as night and day, that's my opinion to share. I live with both. Others do as well. My only beef is that people that don't own or regularly work with the breed really shouldn't be providing input on the breed. It's funny to read accounts of how they are from people who don't actually have them.


I read through this whole thread out of boredom more than anything else - and I have to comment on this. Maybe look at her question a different way? Since you do own both breeds, you could be a great resource for her as to what each breed is like. Rather than saying "I have both, I don't compare them" - that isn't helpful. So don't compare them - just say "this is Dog A and this is Dog B - they are each their own, this is how they behave, work, etc.", rather than looking at it as Dog A does this, but Dog B does the same thing better because..yadda yadda. You can show each breed being their own dog without having to "compare them" per se and help the OP out with information that would be great for her to have. Thus far, all I have seen is you saying "I have both. They are different." - but how exactly? I haven't seen that answered and it seems you would be one of the best people to answer that question for her. Instead of getting upset at people making comments who don't own the breed, you could make constructive comments and truly help her make an informed decision.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

jm513 said exactly what I wanted to say to Rerun, just in a better fashion. Thank you!  I am not trying to start arguments or create tension. I am here to learn in addition to what I am doing off of the internet.

In regards to my last post, I don't want to keep bouncing between breeds. I think I'm trying too hard to make a decision now as to which breed is better without meeting enough of them. I was much more drawn to the Malinois first, but the GSD still just has that something that all of you obviously know and love! I keep forgetting I have a year to make a decision. I guess I just like knowing what I want and being able to research according to that decision. I need to accept both breeds for what they are and research both. I'll probably end up owning both anyway!


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I have seen at least one GSD with a very mal-like temperament. Crazy crazy drive, "bite first think later," in the wrong hands that dog would have been dangerous. In the right (very experienced) hands he was great - then he was sold to someone who was not super experienced with working dogs, and things just fell apart with the training.
I loved that dog - and there are GSD's out there with that kind of temperament, although it is not "correct" I understand the attraction to that kind of dog!

I definitely would not suggest a dog like that for a first time working dog owner - you will be biting off way more than you can chew. Get something more moderate (but still with lots of drive - just not "crazy"), whether it's a GSD or a mal.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Here is my problem, which I tried to explain earlier in the thread. It's not just "mal vs GSD." It's mal vs...what kind of GSD? In my mind, there are many different "types" of GSD's these days. Are we talking compare the mal to a WGSL GSD which has a completely different temperament and overall appearance/size than, say GWL or ASL or even - if you want to call them (which I don't care for, but many do...) "pet lines." So which are we comparing? 

I haven't owned a high drive GSD, but have been a few days a week for a little while now working with several. So we could compare them, or we could compare a nice pet/working line I have or one of my nervebag rescues.

Here's the best I'll give it as a basic comparison from my viewpoint from the dogs I've dealt with:

Malinois:
- High energy regardless of drive.
- Smaller, more compact, shorter tighter coat resulting in almost no shedding
- Far more intelligent than any dog I've ever handled
- Lightening smart, picks things up - whether RIGHT OR WRONG (important to note) incredibly quickly. Make sure you're training the dog how you want it to perform or you'll do a lot of undoing what you didn't actually mean to reward
- Handler sensitive. Mine in particular can take a correction but it must be a fair and well timed correction, he works much better on positive reinforcement and does not forgive like my GSD's do. He is super bonded and would go to the end of the earth for me, so in that sense he's "forgiving" but he'll pout the rest of a training session if he doesn't feel I've been fair with him.
- Very, very, active. I would never dream of crating my mal for long periods of time and IMHO wouldn't recommend them to anyone who is going to do the standard crate while at work, crate at night deal. I just can't imagine that working but I know it's done for sure. I used an x-pen for day time use with mine as a puppy and crated at night. We also built a concrete 30 x 18' pen in the backyard, which is used happily by him when we're away, busy during the day, or whathave you. We'll kennel him up with our 4 1/2 yr old male GSD and they are good buddies. 
-Quirky. I really don't know how best to describe this, other than to say...quirky.

GSD:
Settles much better in the house. The mal will settle to some extent, but not like most would imagine. He needs something to occupy his mind, he won't/can't just "chill" like the other dogs for the most part.

-Bigger, thicker coat, sheds like crazy no matter the amount of brushing and good diet. 
- More forgiving by far
- Calmer overall demeanor, don't always have that appearance of being "on" like the mal - GSD's have a better off switch
-Not as quirky, handler sensitive, more of an "all around" dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Like I said. German Shepherd is a Volkswagen while the Mal is a BMW. 




Rerun said:


> Here is my problem, which I tried to explain earlier in the thread. It's not just "mal vs GSD." It's mal vs...what kind of GSD? In my mind, there are many different "types" of GSD's these days. Are we talking compare the mal to a WGSL GSD which has a completely different temperament and overall appearance/size than, say GWL or ASL or even - if you want to call them (which I don't care for, but many do...) "pet lines." So which are we comparing?
> 
> I haven't owned a high drive GSD, but have been a few days a week for a little while now working with several. So we could compare them, or we could compare a nice pet/working line I have or one of my nervebag rescues.
> 
> ...


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Like I said. German Shepherd is a Volkswagen while the Mal is a BMW.


Maybe something is being lost in translations, or perhaps the brands are viewed differently by Germans... But to an American that is like saying one is high end and definitively "better" and the other is just average and only "meh". Which I can understand a Mal person making that comparison, but it seems out of place for a GSD person to put it like that.

The way I had it put to me by a military K9 trainer... Mals are like special forces or SWAT mentality, GSDs are like Infantry or patrol cop. Both have their place and use.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Rerun, if I do end up getting a GSD, I am mostly looking at West German working lines. I DO NOT want show lines by any means. I just don't find them to be examples of their breed. I apologize to anyone who might own one, but their not GSDs to me. Thank you for trying your best to lay that information out. It was helpful.

Is there a reason that kenneling them is better than crating them besides the obvious? Either way I see it as them being confined without interaction from their owners. Everyone I've spoken to that owns strictly Mals or Mals and Dutchies either crates them while they're away or they're just kennel dogs through and through anyway and are not permitted in the house. 

As far as working goes, I'm convinced I can find what I want in either a Mal or a GSD. I'm not going to get to the top of the sport. I just want something to do with my dog and the sports look like a lot of fun. Who knows, I may get serious about them after spending the time training, but at this point I am not anticipating that. 

Rerun, from your description it seems you are more fond of the Mal than the GSD? Forgive me if I'm just assuming but your description was much more in depth. A lot of people have described the bond you have with a Mal is different from that with a GSD because of the personality differences. As a general consensus, it seems that the Mal is not as affectionately bonded to you as a GSD would be. It's more of a working, business-like relationship. Again, not going off of experience, just what many people have told me thus far. Two of the Mals at the PSA club I saw this past weekend seemed to be fond of their owners but not terribly so. The third Mal, however, seemed extremely fond of his owner and seemed to be working for his owner and not just for himself if that makes sense.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

BR870 said:


> Maybe something is being lost in translations, or perhaps the brands are viewed differently by Germans... But to an American that is like saying one is high end and definitively "better" and the other is just average and only "meh". Which I can understand a Mal person making that comparison, but it seems out of place for a GSD person to put it like that.
> 
> The way I had it put to me by a military K9 trainer... Mals are like special forces or SWAT mentality, GSDs are like Infantry or patrol cop. Both have their place and use.


The Volkswagen is a people car. Not a "meh" car. It's a high quality, affordable car. It runs for years and years and years and years. 

So does the BMW but the BMW is just not for everybody. It's sportier, drivier and just overall faster. 

Just because I'm a GSD person doesn't mean I can see the difference between a GSD and a Mal. Even with the most driven GSD's you've got a good off switch. The Mal, is lighter, faster, drivier as the GSD. And yah, he doesn't shed as much either. 

I can see the difference between my friends 10 year old Mal and my 2 year old Shepherd every time they run together. It's hard to compare them at all because you just won't get the same out of a Shepherd and a Mal will never be a Shepherd. 

It's a personal preference of what you, personally want but stop comparing two different breeds even though they both are Shepherds you just can't compare them. They are two different breeds, period. Just because they have Shepherd in their name doesn't mean they are the same or should be compared.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Just to make things clear, I'm not looking to compare these two breeds to determine which is BETTER. I'm just trying to make the best decision about which breed is better for me.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Personally speaking, yes, I prefer my mal. We are on a waitlist for a male puppy out of Ozzy Barnero (google) though, so that is not to say that we don't still love GSD's. However, the be honest, this puppy is more going to be a daddys boy and my mal is very much my dog.

Regarding the kennel, sorry I wasn't clear. It's personal preference of course. But I prefer a large kennel when we're away or can't be with him because he runs around and plays. Our dogs are well acclimated to the kennel and have tons of toys, stimulation, they are off the fence line so less barking, fence running, etc, and it's secure. I can look out the windows and see the boys snoozing in the sun even on a cooler day, napping under the shade of the huge tree just outside it and the evergreens that line one side, playing in the kiddie pool in the summer, laying upside down chewing on a bone, etc. They don't just sit and stare at the house waiting to come back inside like many people think they would. I'd rather my dogs have the freedom to run around and play, do their own thing, potty when needed, etc than be locked in a 42" or 48" crate all day. My mal is very well crate trained, he has no problem going right in and he'll stay in there when needed. But I imagine he'd be bouncing off the walls like a crazed nutty malinrat if he was crated everytime we left the house for awhile. I wouldn't ever leave a young mal alone in the house, no matter how reliable he seemed. My GSD's on the other hand can be trusted outside the crate much earlier on. He's totally housetrained and whatnot but they get into mischief if left alone in non malinois proofed areas.

What Mrs. K says, I completely agree with btw. It's absolutely not ford vs chevy.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Vicky said:


> As a general consensus, it seems that the Mal is not as affectionately bonded to you as a GSD would be. It's more of a working, business-like relationship. Again, not going off of experience, just what many people have told me thus far. Two of the Mals at the PSA club I saw this past weekend seemed to be fond of their owners but not terribly so. The third Mal, however, seemed extremely fond of his owner and seemed to be working for his owner and not just for himself if that makes sense.


This is not true of mine or the ones that I've known that were in a working capacity (as in their handler). Mine is very - snuggly - for lack of a better word. With me. Not with others (obviously - most malinois aren't going to be). But not all mals are snuggly and all lovey dovey with their owner, so it may appear that the relationship isn't the "same" and it's not. But the ones that I've known are still just as bonded with a relationship to their owner as any GSD.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Very helpful, Rerun. Do you mind sharing where your current Mal is from or what lines he is out of? This is just pure curiosity on my part. I have looked into the differences between the different lines of Malinois and that I'm sure plays a part in their personality and how "fond" they are of their owner.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Rerun said:


> This is not true of mine or the ones that I've known that were in a working capacity (as in their handler). Mine is very - snuggly - for lack of a better word. With me. Not with others (obviously - most malinois aren't going to be). But not all mals are snuggly and all lovey dovey with their owner, so it may appear that the relationship isn't the "same" and it's not. But the ones that I've known are still just as bonded with a relationship to their owner as any GSD.


The ones I know are very snuggly indeed as well. snugglier than at least two of my GSD's. As far as I was told, my Mal is on the snuggly side as well. For now he's kept in an outdoor Kennel. We'll see how things go once he comes over to the US. It's going to be fun for sure.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Rafi lives and breathes for me. He is very focused on me and that makes him super biddable. He's truly a one person dog. He's also super snuggly. 

There is a guy who lives near me who trains mals and owns one and also runs a dog training facility. His mal is his demo dog and also helps with the dog training and is just as bonded to him as Rafi is to me. You can see that dog (and a couple of other mals this guy has trained) here: Dog & Puppy Obedience Training Videos


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Want to see the difference between Mal puppies and working line GSD pups?

Here ya go:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8HBg2NcTlhc#t=279s
http://youtu.be/fdYeWN4X1Mg
two GSD pups and my Mal puppy playing with each other. They are pretty much the same age. I portrays really well what the difference is. While the GSD pups are still, babies the mal is much faster, much more agile at the same age and quite fierce too.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Mrs.K said:


> Want to see the difference between Mal puppies and working line GSD pups?
> 
> Here ya go:zorro spiel 1 - YouTube
> Zorro - YouTube
> two GSD pups and my Mal puppy playing with each other. They are pretty much the same age. I portrays really well what the difference is. While the GSD pups are still, babies the mal is much faster, much more agile at the same age and quite fierce too.


That's how my Dutchie plays, also. And my poor 6 yr old Malinois is not liking it. Though, I think she really just pretends to not like it at times. 

When I'm at shows, I hear the same thing over and over. Many people don't like the sloping back of the German Shepherd. 

That is part of the reason I didn't get a GSD. The other reason is that I didn't want a large dog. People think my dogs are "large", but they are closer to medium at 24" or less. They are all intelligent, easy to train. I have noticed, though, that the DS has more attitude and is not as clingy or determined to please me as the Belgians. 

For the Belgians, if I drop the pitch of my voice, they are so worried they did something wrong. With the DS I need to keep from sounding too happy, so I am taken seriously.


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## Rexy (Jun 4, 2011)

What traits are you concerned about missing out on with a GSD to consider a Malinois, because I don't believe there is any difference in working performance between a good GSD and a good Mal and the only difference is that's harder to find a good GSD than it is to find a good Mal.

Too many times I have seen Mal's considered better than the GSD comparing a good Mal with a GSD who doesn't meet the standard, of course a good Mal is better than an average GSD, but get a good GSD and make the comparison again?

A Mal is only a substitue for the real thing, they even look like an attempted GSD copy gone wrong. Find the right GSD and you won't be disappointed IMHO.


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## Vicky (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks for your input Rexy! I don't know if I think I'll "miss out" on anything. It's just they are two different breeds and behave differently. I think it's more figuring out which will mesh better with my personality. The Mals have a more primal, instinctual way of behaving, whereas the GSD seems to conduct itself in more of a businesslike fashion if that makes sense. But that's a generalization and it isn't true for all dogs from each breed.

I think you're absolutely right that people make assumptions on average GSDs compared to great Mals. There are bad examples of both breeds and diehard fans of either is going to bash the other breed which is making it hard for me to make a decision. I'm still in the process of getting out and meeting dogs, so my decision will come soon. I just like hearing everyone else's thoughts.


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## Rexy (Jun 4, 2011)

Vicky said:


> Thanks for your input Rexy! I don't know if I think I'll "miss out" on anything. It's just they are two different breeds and behave differently. I think it's more figuring out which will mesh better with my personality. The Mals have a more primal, instinctual way of behaving, whereas the GSD seems to conduct itself in more of a businesslike fashion if that makes sense. But that's a generalization and it isn't true for all dogs from each breed.
> 
> I think you're absolutely right that people make assumptions on average GSDs compared to great Mals. There are bad examples of both breeds and diehard fans of either is going to bash the other breed which is making it hard for me to make a decision. I'm still in the process of getting out and meeting dogs, so my decision will come soon. I just like hearing everyone else's thoughts.


Vicky, I know people who have chosen the Mal fearing lack of drive in selecting a GSD, the GSD dud rate compared with a Mal can be higher. What I have found in a Mal that matches a good GSD is side effects I find painful, hyper activity, no off switch, separation anxiety, aggression towards other animals, I have never seen a "good" Mal without these behaviours to some extent, where a good GSD can be great on the field and in the home as a family pet, I don't think Mal's have the balance a GSD has, but you have to find a good GSD to get the lot.


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## johnkellie (Mar 21, 2001)

I have 4 mals and 1 gsd.My gsd is 10 and the mals are all younger about 1-2yrs all the way down.I like the mals for their athletic ability,They can run for miles and jump like deer.I compete in fr ring and the mals are at the top of that sport,my 9yr old male mal is ring 3 at least 5x.I have a little female that will start the season next spring trialing.They are quick smart hi nrg and have the drive to compete at the hi level I want.My gsd is a great steady guy.He is very stable a beautiful boy,is great at just looking scarey.He rides well in the truck with me,has a deep bark,he is big and black,listens well and settles well.He has drive is smart but could not jump or run as far as the mals do.He does run 4m and swims like a fish.He tracks great and can focus.My male ring 3 does not have the ability to slow down.He tries to cheat,find the bite without doing the excer.he is handler aggressive,does not like people including my husband and most would have put him down.But I trained him and he is an excellent ring dog although that is about all he really wants to do.The mals are not left out of their crates when we leave the house.The gsd is always left out.The mals are a liability and are like having loaded guns,my gsd is like having a gun but you need to load first.I have a 6ft commerial grade fence around my yard which is about 1 acre.I live in the country.If any stray animal gets in the fence it will not make it out.The mals of killed but so has the gsd,cats wood chucks,***** possums,and small dog chihua


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