# Male GSD Problem



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok, first please dont attack me on this matter. I am beating myself up enough over this. My GSD bit someone. 

I cant explain this, because its a new problem and I can not figure out what caused the change. A bit of a situation back ground here. 

Nitro is 4. He is normally a very loving and behaved dog. He is a very large male GSD. He is raised around kids, horses, a goat, cats and other dogs. I have always taken him places and socialized him. I work with him as often as my now busy life has left.

My husband has been out of town in Black Hawk school for his unit. I had people in and out all day yesterday. Nitro met them all outside and he was fine. He just gave a small sniff and acted the big goof ball I love. My babysitter showed up, and just came in. He loves her too. Then my friend showed up to pick me up. We met at the door. I did what I was told to do cause Nitro is an alpha dog. My two girls and their friend came to the door and suddenly Nitro changed. I had his collar but he lunged forward and she put her up her. I pulled him back, said NO. Put him in a sit and down, then removed him. 

Everyone here, in Idaho, says he is now dangerous. I cant help but to think that I need to work him more, maybe. I got sick a year ago with a Nerve disorder and maybe that added to the problem. Someone help me, or if you know an Idaho trainer who is experienced with GSD's I would be greatfull to have that name.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Sounds as though he was overstimulated with all the comings and goings. And with your husband gone maybe he felt like he had to step it up and protect his pack. I don't have any experience with aggressive dogs so I can't give any advice, hopefully others will.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He bit a child? Or he bit your friend? 

I don't think one bite makes a dangerous dog. But you need to find out what triggered it. What exactly were the people doing? Were they all known to him? Was anyone excessively excited or making quick movements he could have misconstrued as a threat? Has there every been signs of him being aggressive towards people before?

"Sit Stay" may know of a trainer for you. Send her a PM.


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Okay, I'm confused as to when the bite took place. At the lunge?!


----------



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok he bite my friend. He lunged forward and up. He got her upper arm. I am trying to figure out why he suddenly did this. She was standing there, with her belt in her hand, and the girls came foward to see my friend. He loves the girls. He even sleeps next to their bunk bed.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So she was holding a belt and your girls came forward? Did she reach for the girls? make any sudden movement? Were the girls making loud noises? Was your friend?

From what little we know, it sounds like he was protecting the girls? Or maybe resource guarding them?


----------



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

She moved forward. Not really loud, but the girls were loud. They had a friend over for a sleep over. So it was girly loud.


----------



## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

If you cannot find a trainer to help you I would recommend keeping him away from new people. I know this will not fix the problem, but it will prevent another bite.


----------



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

What I dont understand is how can he be ok to meet people outside but not at the door. I can introduce him to people outside and hes fine, then when hes inside he changes.


----------



## rjThor (Mar 27, 2011)

From what it sounds like, it seems the belt triggered him, and being the only male in the house, and from what you said being an alpha male, it was instincts that took over. Hope your friend is ok, the good thing is now you know your girls, and yourself are well protected....


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

High pitched girly loud heading towards a person hold an object who was moving towards "his" girls. I think that was the trigger. It sounds like he was a bit overloaded for all the people coming and going as well.

I would not deem him dangerous. However, did he break the skin of your friend? Did she need medical attention? I don't know what the laws are in your area.

Find a good trainer. He needs to learn that you will let him know if there is a threat. I don't think you need to keep him away from new people. If your friend was standing there and the girls never went near her I bet he wouldn't have reacted that way. I would be extra vigilant when people from outside the family are near the kids though.

And to answer your question...because INSIDE is HIS territory. That is something a trainer can help you with as well. But you don't know, if you had the exact same set up , just outside, he may have still bitten because he was protecting the girls.


----------



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

rjThor said:


> From what it sounds like, it seems the belt triggered him, and being the only male in the house, and from what you said being an alpha male, it was instincts that took over. Hope your friend is ok, the good thing is now you know your girls, and yourself are well protected....


 
Yes we are. My husband is being moved around into other units for his skills and getting his six certification for deployment in Feb. I just want to get the alpha over him back so he takes his cues from me.


----------



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

Jax08 said:


> High pitched girly loud heading towards a person hold an object who was moving towards "his" girls. I think that was the trigger. It sounds like he was a bit overloaded for all the people coming and going as well.
> 
> I would not deem him dangerous. However, did he break the skin of your friend? Did she need medical attention? I don't know what the laws are in your area.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you. They are his girls. He just adores them. Yes the skin was broken, but not punctured. Most of a teeth scratch. Shes not wanting to bring the law in, doesnt mean I dont feel bad she got hurt. I am thinking of teaching him to stay in a spot away from the door when people come over. And get my girls to stay away from it too.


----------



## khrisr (Aug 5, 2008)

This is the bite. I really feel bad. Her arms is swollen a bit too.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Hoping someone with more experience sees this post to help the OP...


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Looks like it was more of a warning than a real bite to me. we had a similar thing happen with a female GSD a while ago. I was sitting in a chair with my back to the door and my uncle came bursting in right behand me, yelled Merry Christmas and flung his arms out right over my head as he yelled. Princess was on the floor right in front of me playing with my two little nieces. Without a sound she leaped up and grabbed him by the wrist - full wide open mouth but didn't bite down hard, just enough to hold him. After i got her off him and calmed down, she proceeded to share his sandwich with him (took about 20-30 minutes before all calmed down). He was a operator of a farm as a kid so was very comfortable wirth animals thankfully.

Not real aggessivness just a controlled display of protectivness! (Although it was funny to see the two little girls playing with her for a while after this!)

Sounds a lot like your dog protecting *his* kids. How was he afterward? And how did your friend react? Those would be two key questions for me.


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Holy WOW, wish I had some advice. Did she go see a doctor?! Or did she home remedy the wounds?


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I am in the Boise area and I have PM'ed you the name and phone number of an experienced trainer who knows the GSD.
Sheilah


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Working with a good trainer is an excellent idea. He clearly wasn't trying to hurt your friend but he also over stepped his bounds & showed poor judgment. He needs to learn that you are the leader, you are in charge & if you want/need his assistance you'll let him know. 

Many large dogs don't fully mature until 3-4 yrs. Changes in attitude & behavior aren't uncommon as the dog finally enters adult maturity. My Djibouti turned 3 in Dec & I'm seeing the true adult finally emerging. Despite that there's still considerable pup in him. I suspect your guy is finally becoming a 'real adult dog'. Again, a trainer can help you to help him understand what is & what isn't acceptable behavior. A trainer will also ensure this mildly incorrect behavior doesn't escalate.

Be very careful too what messages you're inadvertently giving him. Don't be too dependent on your 'need' of his protection when your husband is gone or you risk sending him the idea he 'needs' to be in charge of things & making the important decisions. He can only keep you safe if you keep him safe. Understanding & putting the brakes to his inappropriate, albeit mild aggression, is an excellent start to that.

He sounds like a wonderful dog who made a foolish mistake in the 1st bloom of maturity. Yahweh knows I & many others are guilty of as much. Unfortunately society & the law are less forgiving of dogs than people.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Completely agree with rubytuesday....he needs to look to you before deciding how/when to react. And I also agree he was giving a warning, he could have punctured her easily with his canines, and it looks to be more of a tag(even though painful) than puncture. He showed good bite inhibition even though he showed poor judgement!


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Sounds like he's protective of your girls and with all the stimulation confused arrival with threat. Especially with a belt in her hand.

I wouldn't deem that dog aggressive or dangerous -- except where protecting your children is involved.

Had a GSD like that when my children were little. You need to get control so that your dog looks to you for direction before reacting.


----------



## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Have you had him from a pup? When you said *belt* in the hand that put up a ?? in my mind. 

I had a GSD mix in the past that was so easy going that nothing got a rise out of her but a broom. Sticks, rakes, shovels or whatever no response. Pick up a broom and walk in her direction and she would freak. 

She was a young (almost dead) stray when we found her. We always thought that she possibly was hurt with a broom in the past. Of course I worked with her on that and over a period of a couple of months she got to where she longer reacted to a broom.

So is it possible your dog associates a belt with pain and was in fact triggered to respond when a non-family member came to the door with one in hand. Add to the mix your daughters walking into the area at the same time. 

**Belts and brooms are very common articles to hurt dogs with via my knowledge with working with shelters and the Sheriff's Office. **


------------------- Looks like zyppi and I both picked up on belt at the same time. -------------


----------



## Bismarck's_Dad (Apr 2, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> High pitched girly loud heading towards a person hold an object who was moving towards "his" girls. I think that was the trigger. It sounds like he was a bit overloaded for all the people coming and going as well.
> 
> I would not deem him dangerous. However, did he break the skin of your friend? Did she need medical attention? I don't know what the laws are in your area.
> 
> ...


awesome response 
i agree with this.


----------



## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

My dog changed when I was out of town, can't get my new wife to step into my shoes exactly. He adopted my new wife and daughter as if they had been with him for life, but became real defensive if anyone came near them when I was not around.

The keys here are, husband away, girls in the middle, high activity, and belt in the hand. Yes this was a warning bite unless you pulled him a way in the nick of time. 

A couple things to try - 

Reassert dominance: Confident control. He doesn't sleep on the bed or couches, he is on the floor. He never runs up stairs in front of you, you are always first. He never goes through doorways first, he waits for you and the girls. He sits and stays waiting for command before he eats. Solid leash work, where you are in charge. 

And also do everything possible to eliminate the other Key issues. Good Luck


----------



## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Just a question on your house door, is it kind of a confined area? I'm just picturing a "crowd" of people, the noise, and the feeling of being trapped. I may be completely off-base here if your entryway is spacious. It was just a thought, perhaps it helped contribute to the bite (which really could have been way worse, so obviously your dog did, as was pointed out, show some bite inhibition).


----------



## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

Overload  

Lots of changes, lots of people and the high pitched voices of the girls most likely put him into the "instinct" part of his brain and triggered him. The girls yelling, along with the changes in the household with your husband gone, was enough to throw him into this without the added visitors. That sound closely resembles an animal dying (I have a young daughter, it can be so high pitched) and can immediately throw a dog into prey drive mode. Unfortunately he misconstrued the scene and reacted to what he perceived as danger and threat. 

I wouldn't consider this an unprovoked attack meaning I wouldn't deem him as a dangerous dog. But I would say he needs guidance to work through this.

What I would do right now is keep his interaction with strangers and stressful situations to a minimum for at least 2 weeks. When a bite happens a dog is in a very high state of mind, Serotonin is released and everything needs to settle to a normal level. This usually takes about 2 weeks or so, depending on the dog. The threshold is very low meaning something minute can trigger another reaction, he doesn't need to go very far to reach that level again. I would let everyone relax things settle and then begin working with him.


----------



## Bismarck's_Dad (Apr 2, 2011)

valreegrl said:


> What I would do right now is keep his interaction with strangers and stressful situations to a minimum for at least 2 weeks. When a bite happens a dog is in a very high state of mind, Serotonin is released and everything needs to settle to a normal level. This usually takes about 2 weeks or so, depending on the dog. The threshold is very low meaning something minute can trigger another reaction, he doesn't need to go very far to reach that level again. I would let everyone relax things settle and then begin working with him.


i wouldn't worry about the 2 week "isolation".
do a quick google search on seratonin and dog aggression and you'll see that seratonin is a calming agent, lack of seratonin is what is believed to cause anxiety, depression, aggression.


----------



## valreegrl (Nov 11, 2009)

Bismarck's_Dad said:


> i wouldn't worry about the 2 week "isolation".
> do a quick google search on seratonin and dog aggression and you'll see that seratonin is a calming agent, lack of seratonin is what is believed to cause anxiety, depression, aggression.


I would definitely worry about this, especially since you have children in the house. 

Yes, serotonin studies stated above pertain to the levels being low in aggression correlating to "happiness". But serotonin controls emotion and in your case heightened awareness of threat. 

What happens is that it takes very little to trigger another episode after the initial one, usually found to take about 14 days to subside.

Case in point, dog bite against child over resource guarding. Of course family off balance after the incidence, dog in the above state. Next day dog seems "fine", initiates play with the other dog in the home, small trigger of other dog coming too close to toy and BAM! Huge fight with other dog causing extensive injuries. 
Normally this would have been a non-issue, but because of the previous incident the heightened state of mind was already close to the aggression levels. 

Hopefully that was a bit more clear, but definitely not something you want to discount.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think you have a good dog who showed bite inhibition, and was probably protecting his family, from a stranger with a belt in her hand. Interesting if you did have the dog from a puppy, but belts have been used against dogs, and also against children in the presence of dogs. So if you got this dog as an older pup or adult, this may be a reaction to a prior environment. But it does not have to be.

I like the idea of letting things cool down for two weeks. Get everything back to normal.

Then no matter how difficult it is, take the dog to training classes. With a good trainer/behaviorist if possible, an ordinary obedience class if that is not available. It will help, even a regular obedience class, even if the dog already sits and downs. This is more about improving your dog's understanding/bond/trust in you, than it is about perfect sits and finishes if that makes any sense at all. Use praise and treats in class, if you haven't been to classes before. If you have, you might want to go to a more advanced class or to train for a specific thing. 

I think your dog is a good dog. I think he just made an understandable mistake.

Good luck with him. 

And the bite looked very painful. I hope you find some way to appreciate your friend for not making a big deal about this. And let her know that you are doing some extra work with him.


----------

