# Is He Sable??



## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Hello all. We are the proud and happy owners of a 10 week old German Shepard pup named Barbosa. He is s fantastic pup. Already listens to the command sit, stay and paw, and he has his spot on the border of our lawn where he happily goes every few hours. Such a smart boy. Laid back personality just loves to cuddle. I will admit I did not know much about the breed before we purchased him (and still feel like I do not know much) He has the most beautiful coat, it is a light gray/silver with some black (mostly mask and back) After reading and studying pictures of different shepards I am leaning torward his coat being considered sable? I have attached a few pictures taken last week. Just wondering if anyone has had a pup with a similar coat and what to expect as he grows? Sable? Wolf gray? Blue? I had no idea shepards had such a wide variety of coats. Opinions please.  

Alright I do not have his photos on any sites to grab the url so here is a link to a few pics from his gallery on this site.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/60490-fairytalephotog-albums2550-barbosa.html


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Looks to me like he could be a very light sable.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

He isn't what is called a "golden" sable is he? He's definitely not a black/tan. Where did you get him? What color are his parents? If he's a sable then at least one of them had to be a sable also.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

I don't know what color he is, but he sure is a nice looking boy.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

We got him from a pet store called the puppy patch. I know...Boooo, a pet store (gasp) but we couldn't help it. We fell in love with him. It is a very different pet store them most also (link) Welcome to the Puppy Patch! The puppies are kept in play areas and socialized and only put in crates at night. I have his papers which include his parents names and breeder info but no pictures of his parents. Maybe I should contact the breeder?


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Good luck finding the breeder  



> *A: *Our puppies come with a 20 day warranty for any health problems and a 6 month for any hereditary from date of purchase (this does not include "breed issues"). Our puppies are Vet checked *every *single week. We strive to make sure our puppies are healthy before they leave but not every illness can be detected due to incubation periods. We offer complementary exams as well as discounted prices after the first exam. We like to help in anyway we can. We do take care of anything needed through our vet if there is anything needed.


Still not somewhere I'd fork out hundreds of dollars for a pup.

I hope he lives a long, happy life with you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Given that information....are you sure you have a purebred? Are the papers AKC? If the papers are AKC then you can get a pedigree on the parents and may be able to find the breeder. At least they are socializing them. That's a plus.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If he's pure GSD, then he's a sable, but he's so incredibly light it's hard to say. Black puppies are obviously black, and bi-colors and black and tan puppies start out almost solid black so he's definitely not any of those. Sable is the only color left...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Can you post the parents' names?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

fairytalephotog said:


> We got him from a pet store called the puppy patch. I know...Boooo, a pet store (gasp) but we couldn't help it. We fell in love with him. It is a very different pet store them most also (link) Welcome to the Puppy Patch! The puppies are kept in play areas and socialized and only put in crates at night. I have his papers which include his parents names and breeder info but no pictures of his parents. Maybe I should contact the breeder?



I'm sorry I know this isn't what you asked and you already have the pup- so there's nothing you can do now but love him- but I can't help myself. Your comment, "Booo, a pet store (gasp)," makes it seem like you really don't know the problems with pet stores. ALL pet store pups, NO MATTER what they tell you come from puppy mills, where it's likely the mother lives in a cage, has never walked on grass, has litters as fast as she can get rid of the last, and doesn't receive proper medical treatment. I hope in the future that no matter how cute a pup is, and how tempting it is to maybe "rescue" them, giving your money to a pet store is only helping to perpetuate puppy mills.


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## Jeven's Tyde (Feb 1, 2012)

He's very adorable.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> Your comment, "Booo, a pet store (gasp)," makes it seem like you really don't know the problems with pet stores.


pssstt...I don't think they care. 

Without proper documentation who knows what breed the puppy actually is. I thought there is something off in the face when I first saw the picture. They have the puppy now so they just need to give him a good home. Hopefully their purchase was more than just an impulse buy.

I think his AKC paperwork should state the color he is right on it. Unless the paperwork is from a bogus registry like the CKC (Continental...not Canadian)


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Sable.
He is very light for a sable, but not so much that I'd question if he's a purebred GSD.

He will probably be a fairly light sable as an adult, but certainly darker than he is now. Sables can go through some very odd color phases. While most aren't as light as he is, some come pretty close and look very different as adults.

For example, here are 2 sable pups at around his age, and then again the next summer a few months later. Almost as light as Barbosa when young, and very much darker when older.


















And one of them as a mature adult.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Pan went through a blonde phase, though he always had some hint of a black stripe down his back.









Now, he's pretty dark


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> pssstt...I don't think they care.
> 
> Without proper documentation who knows what breed the puppy actually is. I thought there is something off in the face when I first saw the picture. They have the puppy now so they just need to give him a good home. Hopefully their purchase was more than just an impulse buy.
> 
> I think his AKC paperwork should state the color he is right on it. Unless the paperwork is from a bogus registry like the CKC (Continental...not Canadian)


I do care about the problems with pet stores but this puppy is not from a puppy mill he is from a breeder in Williamsburg IN. I have the breeders full name, telephone number and address. He is registered with the ACA as are his parents. His sire is Prince Rover ( I have his registration #) and his Dam is named Polly Anna Rose ( have her registration # also) I have his vet records. He was born on Jan 13 2012 and is up to date on vaccs and wormings. His papers state that he is black/tan but his coat is so light I was just wondering what some experienced GSD owners though of his color(s) 

I would not buy a puppy from a mall pet store but I assure you the puppy patch is different, the owner purchases from private breeders. All of his paperwork looks legit to me, he is a quiet handsome german shepard pup.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Chris Wild said:


> Sable.
> He is very light for a sable, but not so much that I'd question if he's a purebred GSD.
> 
> He will probably be a fairly light sable as an adult, but certainly darker than he is now. Sables can go through some very odd color phases. While most aren't as light as he is, some come pretty close and look very different as adults.
> ...



Thank you for the pictures. It is amazing how much their coats change.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Liesje said:


> Pan went through a blonde phase, though he always had some hint of a black stripe down his back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aw, what a good looking dog you have. The pup pic looks a lot like Barbosa. He has a black patch on the middle of his back that seems to grow more prominent every day.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

fairytalephotog said:


> I do care about the problems with pet stores but this puppy is not from a puppy mill he is from a breeder in Williamsburg IN. I have the breeders full name, telephone number and address. He is registered with the ACA as are his parents. His sire is Prince Rover ( I have his registration #) and his Dam is named Polly Anna Rose ( have her registration # also) I have his vet records. He was born on Jan 13 2012 and is up to date on vaccs and wormings. His papers state that he is black/tan but his coat is so light I was just wondering what some experienced GSD owners though of his color(s)
> 
> I would not buy a puppy from a mall pet store but I assure you the puppy patch is different, the owner purchases from private breeders. All of his paperwork looks legit to me, he is a quiet handsome german shepard pup.


ACA is not considered a legit registry and is not FCI-recognized. Also the names of the sire and dam don't follow the usual naming schemes for well bred show or working dogs, they sound like pet breeder or puppy mill names. Sorry to be a downer. Paperwork does not make the dog well bred from ethical breeders, a good breeder does that. Do the sire and dam have titles, health clearances (not vaccinations and vet records but things like hip and elbow certificates)? I've met and talked to a lot of breeders and have never found one that would willingly release a puppy to a pet store. A good breeder needs to screen prospective homes and be available to answer specific questions about the lineage, health, and temperament of their dogs.

I'm not saying he's a bad dog, I'm sure he'll be a fine dog (and to me he looks like a very light sable GSD) but just being honest about where he's from. All the pet stores market dogs like puppy patch....good dogs, expensive (not really), papers (not legit), health records (just a vet clearance and vax not actual health certs on the parents), only come from good breeders (and what good breeder turns over their puppies to a pet store?), etc etc. "Private breeder" is a fancy word for puppy mill. Good hobby breeders want to get to know YOU and the dog, not just make a buck letting a pet store broker for them.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> I'm sorry I know this isn't what you asked and you already have the pup- so there's nothing you can do now but love him- but I can't help myself. Your comment, "Booo, a pet store (gasp)," makes it seem like you really don't know the problems with pet stores. ALL pet store pups, NO MATTER what they tell you come from puppy mills, where it's likely the mother lives in a cage, has never walked on grass, has litters as fast as she can get rid of the last, and doesn't receive proper medical treatment. I hope in the future that no matter how cute a pup is, and how tempting it is to maybe "rescue" them, giving your money to a pet store is only helping to perpetuate puppy mills.


What you have said is a truly terrible fate. I hate to think that any animal would be forced to endure this. I have known the owner of the puppy patch for some time now. Maybe I am naive but I truly do believe that she buys from private breeders. Barbosa did come with his ACA registration, his breeders and parents info are on his papers. He was a pricey buy at $1,200 (wort EVERY penny) so I will look deeper into this to be sure that all the info that I was given is correct. I hate to think that I have supported an awful puppy mill. Before Barbosa we had a Roti named Thundra. She was 11 when she passed 2 years ago. My husband and I have been talking about getting a puppy for a while now. Once we saw Barbosa we were smitten. Maybe we should have done our research and bought from a private breeder like we did with Thundra but he was there and we were there and the rest is history. I look forward to learning all thiere is to know aboput this wonderful breed and having many happy years ahead with Barbosa.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Liesje said:


> ACA is not considered a legit registry and is not FCI-recognized. Also the names of the sire and dam don't follow the usual naming schemes for well bred show or working dogs, they sound like pet breeder or puppy mill names. Sorry to be a downer. Paperwork does not make the dog well bred from ethical breeders, a good breeder does that. Do the sire and dam have titles, health clearances (not vaccinations and vet records but things like hip and elbow certificates)? I've met and talked to a lot of breeders and have never found one that would willingly release a puppy to a pet store. A good breeder needs to screen prospective homes and be available to answer specific questions about the lineage, health, and temperament of their dogs.
> 
> I'm not saying he's a bad dog, I'm sure he'll be a fine dog (and to me he looks like a very light sable GSD) but just being honest about where he's from.


Thank you for the info. You are not a downer, just giving your honest opinion. I only have his vet/vaccination records, no hip or elbow certificates. 

I should have done more info before choosing but I fell in love with him and thought with my heart. He is a sweet, handsome and loving pup and I do not at all regret my decision but I am curious now that you have brought this up where he came from. On his papers his papers it says 

Sire: GFF Prince Rover PA-ABA-1153735-001

Dam: MH Polly Anna Rose MO-ABA-1142755-01

I have the breeders name, telephone # and address but I do not think it is appropriate to post her. Barbosa cost $1200


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

ACA is a notorious puppy mill registry.

USDA licensed and inspected is another tip-off it's a puppy mill. (not all USDA inspected are millers of course, but all mills have to be. Your smaller, hobby breeders generally are not) 

All puppies sold in retail locations are required to have a veterinary exam, health certificate, and shots, so that doesn't mean much.

All the signs point to this being a puppy mill pup.

Call the ACA and ask how many litters this breeder registers per year.

Ask how many litters the mom has birthed. 

Call the breeder and ask to meet the parents. You don't actually have to go; her reaction to the request hould tell you a lot.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Cost means nothing. I've seen puppy mill and pet store dogs anywhere from $300 to $3500. Normally a working line puppy costs about $1000-$2000 and a German show line about $2500-$3500 or more. Pet stores have to make a profit especially when brokering puppies but too often the price gives the impression of quality when that's not the case.

I can't help with the sire and dam since I can't find either dog on the pedigreedatabase and those aren't AKC numbers. The AKC is the only FCI-recognized registry in the USA. The UKC is also legit but not FCI and you need the right AKC papers to obtain a UKC registry. If MO and PA refer to states, MO and PA happen to have crazy numbers of puppy mills and commercial breeders.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

fairytalephotog said:


> On his papers his papers it says
> 
> Sire: GFF Prince Rover PA-ABA-1153735-001
> 
> ...


I am sorry, but your puppy came from a puppy mill. Just because your pet shop calls them "private breeders" doesn't mean a thing. All it means is that the puppy mill in question is owned by a private individual and they might breed the puppies in their garage or backyard as opposed to a commercial building. ACA is a fake registry which only registers puppy-mill and backyard-bred puppies. It was made for breeders who can't get AKC, UKC or other mainstream registry papers on their pups.

I know you think the "Puppy Patch" is different, and that is what they want you to think, but the fact is that NO reputable breeder will sell puppies to a pet store. EVER. PERIOD.

I feel bad that you were misled into spending so much on a puppy you thought was registered and ethically bred, and you were led to believe you weren't supporting a puppy mill. I know this seems awfully harsh, and I don't mean to imply you shouldn't love your puppy. Poor puppy had nothing to do with this, just a pawn in a great scheme, and now he needs someone to love him for the rest of his life.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Freestep said:


> I am sorry, but your puppy came from a puppy mill. Just because your pet shop calls them "private breeders" doesn't mean a thing. All it means is that the puppy mill in question is owned by a private individual and they might breed the puppies in their garage or backyard as opposed to a commercial building. ACA is a fake registry which only registers puppy-mill and backyard-bred puppies. It was made for breeders who can't get AKC, UKC or other mainstream registry papers on their pups.
> 
> I know you think the "Puppy Patch" is different, and that is what they want you to think, but the fact is that NO reputable breeder will sell puppies to a pet store. EVER. PERIOD.
> 
> I feel bad that you were misled into spending so much on a puppy you thought was registered and ethically bred, and you were led to believe you weren't supporting a puppy mill. I know this seems awfully harsh, and I don't mean to imply you shouldn't love your puppy. Poor puppy had nothing to do with this, just a pawn in a great scheme, and now he needs someone to love him for the rest of his life.


It is okay. We love him. I feel sad that he had to start his life as a puppy mill puppy. I am even more saddened by the thought that his parents are still puppy mill dogs but I am happy that he now had a good happy home with us.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you have the breeders phone number, call them and ask for pictures of the parents.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

fairytalephotog said:


> It is okay. We love him. I feel sad that he had to start his life as a puppy mill puppy. I am even more saddened by the thought that his parents are still puppy mill dogs but I am happy that he now had a good happy home with us.


Agreed. Just be on the lookout for any congenital/genetic defects. I'd have his hips and elbows x-rayed shortly after his 1st birthday if I were you.


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

Not sure on the color but gosh he is CUTE.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> If you have the breeders phone number, call them and ask for pictures of the parents.


I do have the breeders numbers. I will call and ask. I am just curious what his parents look like and if one of them was sable because to me he looks sable. 

Thanks everyone for all of the info.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Emoore said:


> Agreed. Just be on the lookout for any congenital/genetic defects. I'd have his hips and elbows x-rayed shortly after his 1st birthday if I were you.


Thanks for the tip. He was just at the vet on Thursday and he returns for more shots/checkup in 3 weeks. I will bring it up with the vet then.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> We got him from a pet store called the puppy patch. I know...Boooo, a pet store (gasp) but we couldn't help it. *We fell in love with him.*


*sigh* 
It's what keeps the puppy mills up and running, that's what they count on


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Emoore said:


> Agreed. Just be on the lookout for any congenital/genetic defects. I'd have his hips and elbows x-rayed shortly after his 1st birthday if I were you.


LOL full disclosure here: I own a pup from a great bloodline and a responsible breeder with hips certified back to Adam, and I still did hip/elbow x-rays at a year. I just like to know what I'm working with.


Also, I'm not even going to lie: your pup is one of the cutest I've seen in a loooong time. I'd have had a hard time resisting too.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> *sigh*
> It's what keeps the puppy mills up and running, that's what they count on


How could we resist that face? That coat? My Hubby has wanted a German Shepard for ages, loved the breed his whole life. I was thinking maybe another Rotti? Then we met our sweet Barbosa. He had us at hello. LOL. Literally. He is quiet the talker.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Emoore said:


> LOL full disclosure here: I own a pup from a great bloodline and a responsible breeder with hips certified back to Adam, and I still did hip/elbow x-rays at a year. I just like to know what I'm working with.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm not even going to lie: your pup is one of the cutest I've seen in a loooong time. I'd have had a hard time resisting too.


I have to agree. He is one handsome pup. He has grown some since those pics. I will have to bring my camera out in the backyard with us tomorrow.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> How could we resist that face? That coat?


He's cute. ALL puppies are cute. Did you know the pound abounds with puppies? That are on death row?
There is no justification for purchasing puppies from petstores, I'm sorry. 
You (and thousands of others) just guaranteed puppy mills won't go out of business.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> He's cute. ALL puppies are cute. Did you know the pound abounds with puppies? That are on death row?
> There is no justification for purchasing puppies from petstores, I'm sorry.
> You (and thousands of others) just guaranteed puppy mills won't go out of business.


You are right but in our defense we did look at a few shelters over the past few months. No puppies.  We knew we wanted a puppy to train with our family. We have 4 kids ages 11, 7, 4 and 2. We did not see adopting an adult as an option. It was a quick rash decision. Not an educated decision. maybe not the best decision but I will not say I regret it. We saw him, we loved him, we took him home. Puppy mill puppy or not he was still a pup that needed a home. 

I do feel bad for supporting a puppy mill but whats done is done. It will never again happen in the future.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Berating you after that fact doesn't do any good or make any difference. Like Emoore said, watch for congenital/genetic problems and also socialize him ALOT. Poorly bred Shepherds are going to more prone to fear aggression issues so you want him to meet lots of people and lots of other dogs. It's ok if he ignores them...after all, GSD's are supposed to be aloof. My girl couldn't care less about people...but it's not ok if he's lunging at them or running from them. Fear issues are not fun to overcome.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Berating you after that fact doesn't do any good or make any difference. Like Emoore said, watch for congenital/genetic problems and also socialize him ALOT. Poorly bred Shepherds are going to more prone to fear aggression issues so you want him to meet lots of people and lots of other dogs. It's ok if he ignores them...after all, GSD's are supposed to be aloof. My girl couldn't care less about people...but it's not ok if he's lunging at them or running from them. Fear issues are not fun to overcome.


Thanks for the advice. So far he loves people. His is not at all shy or aggressive. he has a very laid back personality. He is great around the kids (and I make sure they are great around him) My hubbs says we should have named him thumper because every time someone walkes in the room his tail starts wagging before he even stands up and makes a cute thumping noise. Right now we go for jogs with the toddlers in the double jogger around the block. He has been easy to train. House broken and listens to 3 commands. Not bad for having him 2 weeks. So far so good. As for socializing him with other doggies vet recommended waiting a few months. Bad parva outbreak in waterbury killed many doggies.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You have to wait until he has been fully immunized. I don't think you have to wait several months. Are there friends of yours that you could visit with him? I"m not so sure on the jogging. You should search the forum for puppies and when their bones are ready to jog.

Puppies do go through fear stages. Just because he is fine now, doesn't mean he won't react at some time. I would just watch for that (not obsessively though!  )


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

fairytalephotog said:


> I do care about the problems with pet stores but this puppy is not from a puppy mill he is from a breeder in Williamsburg IN. I have the breeders full name, telephone number and address. He is registered with the ACA as are his parents. His sire is Prince Rover ( I have his registration #) and his Dam is named Polly Anna Rose ( have her registration # also) I have his vet records. He was born on Jan 13 2012 and is up to date on vaccs and wormings. His papers state that he is black/tan but his coat is so light I was just wondering what some experienced GSD owners though of his color(s)
> 
> I would not buy a puppy from a mall pet store but I assure you the puppy patch is different, the owner purchases from private breeders. All of his paperwork looks legit to me, he is a quiet handsome german shepard pup.


deleted things that others have already said.

Enjoy him and do watch out for heriditary problems.

In the future, do your research and support breeders who want the best for their dogs


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

He's a cute puppy, and you never know what color the adult will be by the color they are as a pup. Shepherds coats change so much it could shock you. Don't worry about some of the comments here, you bought the puppy from what was to your knowledge a good source and you love the puppy. Raise him and treat him like the amazing dog he is and you will enjoy each other for many years.

Just take in some of what has been said about puppy mills and be more informed for the future, for now you are gonna have your hands full with a happy little puppy. Welcome to the forums and I hope that the reception won't make this thread be a farewell to the forum also.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> It was a quick rash decision. Not an educated decision.





> Poorly bred Shepherds are going to more prone to fear aggression issues


Sadly, this is so very true and I feel bad for people who go the petstore route thinking they "have to have a puppy". It turns out that in reality, it's a crapshoot for both health and temperament. 
I do feel that people can learn from this thread, however.

So I'll say that if someone cannot afford a well-bred dog they'd do better adopting an adult dog from a rescue because usually, "what you see is what you get" and when they've lived in a foster home, the foster family and rescue can guide you as to what dog would be most suited to your home.

If you absolutely have to have a puppy, save up and purchase from a good breeder. There's a sticky here about good breeders and how to identify them.

To the OP, you'll need to stick around and be very proactive about preventing issues rather than going back and trying to clean them up after they've occurred and/or become ingrained. 

On a side note, we adopted a pup last summer and he's turned out to be a very wonderful boy, so hopefully you'll have the same luck with this puppy. 
Also you may want to keep a brochure in your pocket or purse about puppy mill/pet shop horrors for when those conversations inevitably turn to getting a puppy. At the very least, try to warn others of the nature of that particular beast. 
Good luck


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

His papers state that he is black/tan but his coat is so light 

xx how can the breeder , and the shop be so careless that they can't even get the colour right.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

with names like that for sire and dam, and registration numbers that don't fit any recognized format , I wonder how MANY GENERATIONS of puppy-farm animals are behind Barbosa . 
Give him the best chance at a good life.

One thing you should do is go back to the pet shop and ask what they had been feeding him there , and what the dam got while carrying him . This makes a difference .

So what are you feeding the dog . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

On the Puppy Patch website they state Eukanuba Pure or some such.


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## kam214 (Mar 3, 2012)

I just want to say I think the OP is dealing VERY well with all the comments. So many times when we get passionate about things we believe in (or do not believe in) we can be a bit harsh because we love dogs so much!

OP, your pup looks like an absolute sweetie and he is incredibly handsome. EVERY dog on this earth deserves a loving home and you have given him one. Did your purchase most likely contribute to money in the hands of a puppy mill? Definitely. Do not believe one word this pet shop owner says no matter how great or believable the story sounds. However, that being said, I think you have done yourself a huge service by coming here and educating yourself and now you can educate others about puppy mills and the warning signs a pup may be from one.

That all being said, congrats on this great little guy that is obviously everything you wanted in a pup for your family. Just follow the advice of knowledgable people here for things such as socializing and possible congenital issues. You are in good hands. Enjoy that guy while he is still little!


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> *So I'll say that if someone cannot afford a well-bred dog* they'd do better adopting an adult dog from a rescue because usually, "what you see is what you get" and when they've lived in a foster home, the foster family and rescue can guide you as to what dog would be most suited to your home.


See, that's what I don't understand. If you can afford to feed a big dog how can you not be able to afford a well-bred one?  Kibble feeders spend what, $60-100/month on dog food? That's $720-1200 saved in just one year if they set that aside every month. Makes no sense to me.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

This puppy was $1200.. the same amount I paid for my well bred dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That's another thing right there-- a dog of similar "quality" (this is not a diss to your dog, OP, but rather a comment on his breeding/heritage which is to say he's registered w/a faux registry) would be around $300-400 on craigslist or driving by with a hand-painted sign out with an arrow pointing to the house with the words "German Shepherd Puppies for Sale" on it.

And for that $1200, the petstore took the lion's share, the breeder probably _did_ earn around $300-400. Petstores jack up the prices skyhigh, so they can (in a few weeks when the puppy is losing it's "cuteness") put it on "sale" for 1k. 

Very sad all around.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have a friend that was duped a while back by a store. She wanted a little dog and went in and saw one and bought him. From the get go the thing had problems, but her vet told her they were "common" so she brushed it off like it was normal. It's a yorkipoo, and I told her it was probably a puppy mill dog, yet she claimed the vet ran tests and that it was in no way a puppy mill dog (I asked her what the tests were and got no answer). Sadly we fall in love with puppies at first sight, and we don't think about the future. Her dog has allergies, he's very protective of her, and now has knee problems at just 1 year of age that are going to require surgery. The girl, anything I asked her that would prove that her dog is a puppy mill dog, she had a way of twisting it into a good thing. She even planned on getting another dog from there until this one came down with extreme knee problems. Its sad that it took this to finally get her to see the problem with puppy stores. And by the way this one claims to use "registered breeders" also and yet most of their dogs are mixes.

I hope your Barbosa grows up to be extremely healthy. Do some research on what you should and shouldn't be doing. Jogging is not good for him right now, unless he's sitting in the push car with your kids. You are going to have to be very vigilant in his future with problems that can come up. And when people are warning you, take it seriously. Right now you have a young puppy that is acting fine, but genetics plays a huge role in their temperament and one day a switch will go off in his head, I just hope he stays the same dog after that.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

kam214 said:


> I just want to say I think the OP is dealing VERY well with all the comments. So many times when we get passionate about things we believe in (or do not believe in) we can be a bit harsh because we love dogs so much!


I agree. Mucho Kudos to Fairytalephotog. They have a very cute puppy and are going to do all they can to give him an awesome life. Hopefully they'll stick around and learn from this so-passionate crowd.


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## Magnolia (Jul 18, 2011)

If you look at my avatar, you'll see Grendel went through a very light stage and he's a black and silver sable. But a month after that picture was taken, he looked like this. Your boy is very handsome too and I see why you found him impossible to resist.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

kam214 said:


> I just want to say I think the OP is dealing VERY well with all the comments. So many times when we get passionate about things we believe in (or do not believe in) we can be a bit harsh because we love dogs so much!
> 
> OP, your pup looks like an absolute sweetie and he is incredibly handsome. EVERY dog on this earth deserves a loving home and you have given him one. Did your purchase most likely contribute to money in the hands of a puppy mill? Definitely. Do not believe one word this pet shop owner says no matter how great or believable the story sounds. However, that being said, I think you have done yourself a huge service by coming here and educating yourself and now you can educate others about puppy mills and the warning signs a pup may be from one.
> 
> That all being said, congrats on this great little guy that is obviously everything you wanted in a pup for your family. Just follow the advice of knowledgable people here for things such as socializing and possible congenital issues. You are in good hands. Enjoy that guy while he is still little!


I agree. I have nothing personal against the OP or the dog, it's a free country and people can get dogs wherever they please. I just feel bad the OP was duped by the pet store and hope s/he can learn so it doesn't happen again.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Liesje said:


> it's a free country and people can get dogs wherever they please.


Yes, but we have to remember, the puppy mill cycle continues because people support it when they purchase pet store puppies. I used to buy supplies from a local pet shop until I found out they were selling yorkie puppies from a BYB.

I'm also mad that the OP was duped into thinking she wasn't supporting a puppy mill.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Emoore said:


> I agree. Mucho Kudos to Fairytalephotog. They have a very cute puppy and are going to do all they can to give him an awesome life. Hopefully they'll stick around and learn from this so-passionate crowd.


Absolutely! Can't wait to watch him go through the color changes!


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> You have to wait until he has been fully immunized. I don't think you have to wait several months. Are there friends of yours that you could visit with him? I"m not so sure on the jogging. You should search the forum for puppies and when their bones are ready to jog.
> 
> Puppies do go through fear stages. Just because he is fine now, doesn't mean he won't react at some time. I would just watch for that (not obsessively though!  )


LOl, I am a very SLOW jogger, more like a speed walk, plus add 150 lbs. of toddlers and massive double jogger...well you get the picture. I will look into weater he is to young to keep up, maybe just stick to slower walks for a while. He seems to want to speed up every time I take him out.

My Mother just lost her 11 year old rescued rotti lab mix 2 months ago. She is now the proud momma of a 12 week old golden retriever. Barbosa enjoys playing with her although she is much more hyper then Barbosa. My neighbor had a pit bull, he tries to keep up with her but again she is another hyper dog and tries to play rough some times. Thanks for the advise.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

carmspack said:


> with names like that for sire and dam, and registration numbers that don't fit any recognized format , I wonder how MANY GENERATIONS of puppy-farm animals are behind Barbosa .
> Give him the best chance at a good life.
> 
> One thing you should do is go back to the pet shop and ask what they had been feeding him there , and what the dam got while carrying him . This makes a difference .
> ...


The puppy patch provided us with 2 bags of Eukanuba. One is chicken and rice pure puppy growth and the other is Naturally wild north atlantic salmon and rice. He loves them both. His training treats are natural chicken (I can not remember the name and hubby put them in a bowl near the back door with his leash so it is easy to grab every time we take him out). He loves to nip/chew. When he does this we say "NO bites Barbosa" and quickly replace hand/childs foot/shoe with Nylabone Good Puppy Rawhide. He eats twice a day morning/night. We keep him on a strict schedule. My hubby works full time, I own a business and we have 4 kids so as you can imagine schedule is key.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

TheNamesNelson said:


> He's a cute puppy, and you never know what color the adult will be by the color they are as a pup. Shepherds coats change so much it could shock you. Don't worry about some of the comments here, you bought the puppy from what was to your knowledge a good source and you love the puppy. Raise him and treat him like the amazing dog he is and you will enjoy each other for many years.
> 
> Just take in some of what has been said about puppy mills and be more informed for the future, for now you are gonna have your hands full with a happy little puppy. Welcome to the forums and I hope that the reception won't make this thread be a farewell to the forum also.


Thank you.  I understand that the comments made were only made because people in this forum are very passionate about their love for dogs. I also understand that I should have done more research and bought from a breeder. That being said I am happy to have Barbosa he has become a very cherished and loved member of our family I look forward to spending more time in this forum and learning all I can so I can give Barbosa the best life possible.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Sadly, this is so very true and I feel bad for people who go the petstore route thinking they "have to have a puppy". It turns out that in reality, it's a crapshoot for both health and temperament.
> I do feel that people can learn from this thread, however.
> 
> So I'll say that if someone cannot afford a well-bred dog they'd do better adopting an adult dog from a rescue because usually, "what you see is what you get" and when they've lived in a foster home, the foster family and rescue can guide you as to what dog would be most suited to your home.
> ...


Thanks for the advise. He is young but (knock on wood) so far healthy and of good temperament. I understand that these things can change but I think all the love and kindness he receives along with a strict routine and training efforts and proper healthcare will enable barbosa to have a good long healthy life.

I will never again buy from a pet store. As an educated person I feel ashamed that I had my blinders on and really believed that he was from a breeder, not a puppy mill. Whats done is done.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

kam214 said:


> I just want to say I think the OP is dealing VERY well with all the comments. So many times when we get passionate about things we believe in (or do not believe in) we can be a bit harsh because we love dogs so much!
> 
> OP, your pup looks like an absolute sweetie and he is incredibly handsome. EVERY dog on this earth deserves a loving home and you have given him one. Did your purchase most likely contribute to money in the hands of a puppy mill? Definitely. Do not believe one word this pet shop owner says no matter how great or believable the story sounds. However, that being said, I think you have done yourself a huge service by coming here and educating yourself and now you can educate others about puppy mills and the warning signs a pup may be from one.
> 
> That all being said, congrats on this great little guy that is obviously everything you wanted in a pup for your family. Just follow the advice of knowledgable people here for things such as socializing and possible congenital issues. You are in good hands. Enjoy that guy while he is still little!


Thank you! I look forward spending time learning in this forum.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We have a rescue and get pet store dogs in all the time, sadly enough. 

What's worse is people who believe they have a well-bred dog because of the "registration papers" and proceed to breed their dog under that presumption.

Many of the dogs (in our rescue) who have come from petstores have allergies, illnesses/joint and structure problems, or temperament issues. Petstores and puppy mills rely on people "falling in love", or having the mentality that "well I 'rescued' it from that nasty pet store". Either way, it keeps puppy mills and petstores in business.

Look at it this way- it was a huge learning opportunity for you, and you can help others with their decisions now 

We had a huge triumph here recently when a Petland (famous for selling puppies) went out of business and is now sitting there empty, after they continually sold sick puppies to the community, and people were outside with signs stating that all the puppies inside came from mills. 
Without the puppy sales apparently these stores are at real risk for going under.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Absolutely! Can't wait to watch him go through the color changes!


There will be no shortage of pictures. I am a photographer so there is no excuse to not have weekly growth documentation. He is not at all camera shy. Very interested in looking right at me every time the camera comes out.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Magnolia said:


> If you look at my avatar, you'll see Grendel went through a very light stage and he's a black and silver sable. But a month after that picture was taken, he looked like this. Your boy is very handsome too and I see why you found him impossible to resist.


Your Grendel is a very handsome boy. Thanks for sharing the picture.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> We have a rescue and get pet store dogs in all the time, sadly enough.
> 
> What's worse is people who believe they have a well-bred dog because of the "registration papers" and proceed to breed their dog under that presumption.
> 
> ...


We have no intention of breeding Barbosa. We are just happy to have him for a pet. Kudos to you for devoting your time, patience & resources to your pet rescue.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Liesje said:


> I agree. I have nothing personal against the OP or the dog, it's a free country and people can get dogs wherever they please. I just feel bad the OP was duped by the pet store and hope s/he can learn so it doesn't happen again.


It won't happen again.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

fairytalephotog said:


> There will be no shortage of pictures. I am a photographer so there is no excuse to not have weekly growth documentation. He is not at all camera shy. Very interested in looking right at me every time the camera comes out.


Your photos are great, the pics of him capture his expressions so clearly 

A few years ago we got a DSLR for the rescue and it makes such a huge difference!


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks. I just updated his album with some pics I got this morning. His coat is getting a bit darker now. Here is a link to the album in case anyone is interested.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/60490-fairytalephotog-albums2550-barbosa.html


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## Magnolia (Jul 18, 2011)

:wub: Great pictures! I can't get over how well his ears stand up. Most of them go up and down a while.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

He's definitely a cutie. And awesome pictures!

here is a good example of the changes that Singe has gone through. I added some new stuff at the end
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...evolutions-sable-shepherd-very-pic-heavy.html


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Magnolia said:


> :wub: Great pictures! I can't get over how well his ears stand up. Most of them go up and down a while.


Thanks! Yup, his ears are always up. When he is very happy and excited they sort of point back.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Dainerra said:


> He's definitely a cutie. And awesome pictures!
> 
> here is a good example of the changes that Singe has gone through. I added some new stuff at the end
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...evolutions-sable-shepherd-very-pic-heavy.html


Great shots. I love the last action shot of him jumping. It is amazing how much their coats change. Thanks for the link.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> He's definitely a cutie. And awesome pictures!
> 
> here is a good example of the changes that Singe has gone through. I added some new stuff at the end
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...evolutions-sable-shepherd-very-pic-heavy.html


I also have a set with lots of examples of change...1200+ photos 

Kastle - a set on Flickr


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

what can I say, those sables are a photogenic bunch!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Barbosa has fabulous eyes. I love dark eyes on a GSD.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

Liesje said:


> Barbosa has fabulous eyes. I love dark eyes on a GSD.


Thank you.


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## fairytalephotog (Mar 27, 2012)

FG167 said:


> I also have a set with lots of examples of change...1200+ photos
> 
> Kastle - a set on Flickr


I will have to check it out. I will add you to my contacts on flickr.


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## tbl41890 (Jun 8, 2014)

I am coming late to the party, but your dog is my dogs half brother. It is sad, but I know my dogs mother came from a puppy mill. The way I see it is she is in a better home now and that is all that matters to me. I have turned in the pet store I bought her from as well, for selling puppy mill pups; but they deserve homes too. We have done a DNA test on here and she is a purebred with excellent hips and elbows...great bill of health in all other aspects as well. 

She is a true charmer and the sweetest dog I have ever known. Her brother Barbosa is a handsome little fella as well. Do you happen to have any photos of their father? We don't have any information beyond his name and registration number.


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