# Argggg!!!! Dog Attack!!!!



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well my "Perfect" record of "no dog gets to mine without getting past me is "toast!!!" One did and it was a freaking "Black and Tan GSD!!!!"

Rocky is fine ... I'm fine. I'm just seriously ticked off!!!! Perfect storm and yet again ... I violated my own advice!! New tenants moved into a house on the corner. I told Marily ... don't go by that area ...large chain length fence with "extremely badly behaved" dogs there. And at least one of them was a GSD!!! 

So I "knew" but it's a commercial area property and no moon tonight ... and the place looked abandoned to me??? A Rocky apparently saw the dogs behind the fence ... I could not??? So he did the nose at the fence ears up alert??? But as I could barely see "Rocky" I paid that no heed??? Next thing I know dogs come, charging the fence??? The place looked abandoned??? 

Reaction form "Rocky" .... nothing! OK fine then we'll gain some distance form the fence and continue on our journey .... but halfway past ... I decide well those dogs I know understand are there??? It's a large frontage for the fence ... so let's just turn around and take another path. So that's what we do but ... apparently the fence is not secure??? 

We turn around to take another route ... I put "Rocky" on the outside so I'm between him and the fence ... did not matter ... that fence is not secure and there were was not one but at least two if not three out of control GSD's behind that fence????

And at least one of them slips out!!! And he is charging us and from "Rocky" ... I get nothing!! Daddys got this but ... but this time ... Daddy can't see anything??? The one dog slips by me as I try to figure out what the HE!! is going on going??? Rockys yeps as he is struck!!!! And I'm ticked off!!!!! Clearly not a sustained attacked ... to quick for me to kick the crap out of the attacking dog?? And I could not grab to engage becasue I could not see "anything????" 

That **** dog circled around and struck!! By the time I could see him he was already moving!!! He got to "Rocky" and "Rocky" yelped!!!! I was freaking ticked off and that dog at least understood ... he messed up!!!! That guy is freaking insane!!!! 

But that dog clearly understood that he screwed with the wrong freaking dog and owner!!!! It was a quick hit and he disengaged!!! I freaking dared him to freaking try again!!! 

I lost my phone so I took "Rocky" around the corner told him to stay and I'm going back for my freaking phone!!! Come at me if you freaking dare!!!!! They did not!! 

Rocky ... did as he has been trained ... but over trained??? I got no warning of imminent danger from him??? He could see the threat but I could not ... but you know ... "Daddys got this???"

We came home and I drove back to retrieve my phone. I am freaking ticked off!!!! Marilyn will go down tomorrow and talk to the owners ... I just can't!! My plan would be to go back during "daylight" and look for payback!!! But if there are other folks out here and they walk less "formattable breeds that way!" And if that dog or dogs get a whole of a lesser dog and owner ... someone is gonna die!! So yeah her plan is better than mine, and "Rocky" sigh ... no big deal ... "apparently" this was our best adventure ever!! >


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm sorry this happened to you Chip. No one is infallible

Did Rocky get hurt?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Oh NO!

How awful!

Glad you and Rocky are ok. 

Moms


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Give Rocky a scritch for me--good dog. You can have your favourite cookie.
Seriously, Rocky's lack of reaction may have kept all of you safe, better than an all out dog fight where all parties get injured or seriously upset.
Hope you can get those dogs locked behind secured fences (ala bylaws, etc.)


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I am glad Rocky is okay. It could have been so much worse.

Ill contained dogs are a serious problem.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

That sounds like it could have gone really wrong in a hurry. Glad you guys are OK and sounds like Rocky did a great job! Ear rubs all around!


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry this happened and glad you and Rocky are all right. It could have been far worse.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Sorry this happened, but glad you guys are okay. Yeahhh, Marilyn going is probably safer ... for them. At least for now.


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## lalabug (Oct 20, 2016)

oh my gosh! Really glad you are OK!


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Glad you and Rocky are OK.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Chip! Wear a headlamp at night! I can recommend a great one I use, it's no fun if you can't see what is going on. I'm glad you both are OK.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww thanks guys ... as these things go ... it went fine. We did what we do ... it's just that ... nowhere in my plans did I ever consider ... not being able to uh ... see a charging dog????

I was between "Rocky" and the dogs . But I "assumed" the property was empty??? I knew they "had" been there??? And when the crap went down I was focused on the "GSD" I could see??? I did not see the one, that slipped, out until he brushed by me and Rocky yelped??? 

At that point the Black and Tan that was on us was barely visible ... and I couldn't see Rocky at all??? So it was strikeout (kick) where???? The one brushed right by me while I was still staring at the other one I could see??? That millisecond delay was all that dog needed!! When I spun around ... he got the heck out of Dodge!! He wasn't eager to try his luck again!! 

Most likely "Rocky" was watching him but ... no reaction from "Rocky" becasue you know "Daddy's got this??? But ... "Daddy" apparently can't see in the dark ... uh oh!!!" 

Sigh ... I suppose "Now" I'll take my own advise! Bear Spray wouldn't have work no target ... or time to deploy?? An air horn ... maybe ... if it was readily at hand??? A walking stick ... would have been ideal! I could have jammed that between that dog and my thigh even at the last second!! Oh well ... "The School of Hard Knocks" it seems ... I'm still attending ...live and learn.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

islanddog said:


> Give Rocky a scritch for me--good dog. You can have your favourite cookie.
> Seriously, Rocky's lack of reaction may have kept all of you safe, better than an all out dog fight where all parties get injured or seriously upset.
> Hope you can get those dogs locked behind secured fences (ala bylaws, etc.)


Yeah ... my dog wasn't hurt and I usually let it go at that. But Marilyn said "what about others???" Lot's of older people walking small dogs out here. 

If that dog came after "Rocky and myself" ... anybody and dog less formatiable ... is gonna be a world of hurt! So she'll call Animal Country and they'll make the owners aware ..."that they have problem." Bet those dogs owners ... aren't "here" ... just saying.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I'm sorry this happened to you Chip. No one is infallible
> 
> Did Rocky get hurt?


He got ... at least nipped??? I heard him yelp and spun and the dog ... retreated. I brought him and had Marilyn look him over while I went back to get my phone.

He got treats and kisses and slept like a log ... he seemed to have enjoyed himself ... just another one of "Dad's" nutty outings.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am glad Rocky is okay. It could have been so much worse.
> 
> Ill contained dogs are a serious problem.


Yesss .... "Apparently" so! 

For me "this situation" is my definition of the term "loose dogs" dog at large no owner in sight??? Strictly speaking it was not a "Stray" as it was at home ... more or less.


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## Timberdog (Dec 26, 2016)

Sorry to hear what happened to Rocky but glad he is ok!! fortunately, you acted fast to prevent further damage!!


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I carry pepper spray, but thankfully have never had to use it. That stuff also gets in the air and is annoying to breath (tested its distance once and regretted it).I would hate to have to hurt a dog because of owners being idiots. It takes a lot to rouse Draco but he is always prepared to protect himself if needed. Where I used to live there were a lot of strays or even dogs with owners who let them roam, sometimes they would go after me or him and he would instantly put them on the ground and they would take off as fast as they could. If I saw them coming I would grab a handful of rocks to throw on the ground and it would sometimes scare them off.

My in laws were walking their two SMALL dogs and two GSDs went after them. They bit up their Boston Terrier and my father in law, but both were OK luckily. Those dogs had a history of attacking other dogs, the owner was an idiot who didn't leash them even after multiple incidents. I think the cops were involved and he only walks one at a time and leashes them, from what I have seen anyway. 

My husband and I bought my father in law a taser walking cane after that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Glad no one is hurt. 

For me, it was that little monster lackland terrier who got one of my girls during class. Yep, I was seriously ticked off. The dog was small, but it was wearing a prong and an e-collar, and the owner was just oblivious. I figured they did indeed need to be in classes and just kept my distance. 

Accidents do happen. Hopefully, they will improve their barriers, and maybe do something to eliminate barrier aggression as well. Probably best to let Marilyn do the talking.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I'm glad you are both alright and that it was not serious. Did your wife talk to them? What happened?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Glad it wasn't serious. 
I have three dogs two German Shepherds and a German Shepherd /golden retriever mix. I live in town and have a six foot chain link fence around my entire back lot. I try to keep my dogs neutral to other dogs and dogs walking by. But I just don't understand why people with dogs walking by insist on stopping and letting their dogs approach my fence or pee on the post out there. "there is about 8 feet of my yard between the fence and road that they encroach upon". Then they act surprised when my dogs bark and wanna have a go at their dogs. I have had to tell numerous people to just keep moving. Of course my dogs are gonna want to keep other dogs away or off their territory. 
It really ticks me off now that we're going to club. My dogs don't have to like other dogs but they do have to tolerate them. Anyway it isn't an issue at club. It's not their territory. But I don't wanna let my dogs get used to being reactive to other dogs.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Perhaps, you need to change "your plan?" Going back for payback is another bad idea. Dogs are dogs and defending their property and guarding their property is what they do. Never trust a fence to secure dogs that really want to get loose.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Glad everyone is Okay! That is always a concern - encountering other dogs who are crazy!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Chip, glad you and Rocky are OK!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm glad you are both alright and that it was not serious. Did your wife talk to them? What happened?


She contacted AC and they wanted an address so she went to talk to the owners but no was there??

I did take note of those dogs first appearance and I did not like there behaviour and I told "Marilyn Specifically" don't go in that direction! "Apparently" that was good advice. 

But last night no lights in the abode ... the property looked abandoned??? Gotta dig deeper ... it maybe a situation where those dogs were abandoned also???


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You need more information. It's a good idea to stay calm if you talk to them but contacting AC is the best.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Slamdunc said:


> Perhaps, you need to change "your plan?" Going back for payback is another bad idea. Dogs are dogs and defending their property and guarding their property is what they do. Never trust a fence to secure dogs that really want to get loose.


Sigh ... no problem, I gave that up, if you walk willingly into an ambush ... don't complain if you get messed up!! 

And yes ... I suspect it was the second gate where the dog came from?? The first time I saw them, I noted that gate was kinda loose??? There are at least two Black and Tan GSD's there but last night I thought I saw three??? Highly concerning t say the least so my focus was on the dogs I could see.

I couldn't see "Rocky" and usually with that kind of crap we just move along?? He alerts and I look "that way" but "Rocky" was "invisible???" I couldn't see what he saw??? But I knew something was different???

Had I continued to move away ... he'd have been struck from the rear! So I told him to stay "something was different" but... I got this! Most likely "Rocky protected my flank??? And figured "I got the front???" But "Roc" was wrong this time ... the dog blew by me and struck and when I whirled ... the dog decided ... good enough ... this guy is crazy???? I'm outa here!

I have no idea where he went but he disappeared??? At anyrate "Marilyn" found no one there today???

There were no lights on at the property that night, if there were we would not have gone that way. But now it's starting to look like those dogs were abandoned??? So AC control just my have a rescue situation on there hands???


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> You need more information. It's a good idea to stay calm if you talk to them but contacting AC is the best.


Oh I'm "calm under pressure" but I won't talk to the owners!!! That's "Marilyn's job! I don't do people well, if my dogs are involved! And had it been my "Struddell (White Boxer)" that dog struck ... yep I'd have gone over that "freaking fence" for pay back!!!! 

When "Roc" and I had our first encounter and I slipped on the ice and he came to my aid unbid. Under full observation of law enforcement!

It was most likely a lawyer's dream "Oh my back!!!" But my dogs weren't hurt and that's all I care about so that guy got off with a terse "Control Your Freaking Dog's!!" 

But had his innorant dogs chose to target my "Struddell" who was to my rear with my wife instead of "Rocky and me???" I'd have let "Rocky loose" and it would have been Vet visits, the ER and LE involvement for "everybody!!!" No dog "screws" with my "Girl!" 

With my Boys ... I'm at least halfway rational ... but with my girl ... "NO" but I understand that and that is why I don't do "Dog Parks" or unknown dogs ... I don't need the hassle. Dogs have to go out of there way to "cross my path!" That a-hole "GSD" can consider himself as being extremely freaking lucky!!!


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

It's funny, I am out with my dog (s) all day and night when working. I do foot patrols through some decent neighborhoods and some high crime neighborhoods. Even before I was a handler I was out at all hours of the day walking through our rough areas. In 15 years I've been confronted by only a handful of dogs. I've had a stray GSD or Rottie challenge me and a few pit mixes. I would say it is almost a rare event and I have certainly been in some very undesirable areas. From the stories some folks tell it sounds like they live in a foreign country where every dog runs loose. 

From many years of walking dogs, I've learned a few things. First, some dog owners are really not that bright, IMPO.  I've had people let their dog run up to my fence and gate that is clearly marked "Police Working Dog." I've heard people say "let's go see the Police dog" and come on my property and walk up to my 6' wooden privacy fence with their peekaboo or ****zapoo. This amazes me. Then there are the other folks with the DA dog and want to walk past my house multiple times to "train" their dog. Both are really stupid and bad ideas. If you are one of the pet owners that takes the route past the dog aggressive dog in the yard to "expose, train or show off how well behaved your dog is" around DA dogs; well stop doing that silly stuff. Stop purposely annoying the dogs behind the fence, move along, cross the street or pick a different route. It is a recipe for disaster to keep going by the same dogs every day. 

Boomer is extremely dog aggressive and we have never had an issue with stray dogs while walking. I've never had a dog fight in years of walking my dogs as an adult. I've owned a couple of strong DA dogs over the years and have never had an issue controlling my dogs or stray dogs that approached. 

You absolutely need to be aware and understand dog behavior and be able to read a dog's body language and bark. If you hear a large aggressive sounding dog, cross the street or find another route. If you are approached by a stray dog, most can be deterred by a stern command and presence. If you project that you are in control, have your dog calm and focused on you. All it usually takes it a loud "GO HOME." and most dogs will leave you alone. 

If you are walking at night, carry a good flashlight. Flashlight technology has really improved in the past couple of years. Get an LED flashlight with a strobe feature. You can find them for under $20 now or as much as $200. I have both and they are all good. I've been chased by aggressive pit mixes at 3 AM sneaking up on some dope dealers and the strobe on the light was all it took to deter the bully / pit mix. I've been tracking with my dog at 2 AM and been challenged by dogs going through their yard. Again, the strobing light and good intense "Knock it off" was enough to stop them. 

I would think with the amount of time I spend out doing foot patrols, urban and rural tracking, surveillance with my dog in the shadows and bushes would put me at a high likely hood of coming across stray dogs. Even perimeter positions or moving through yards at 0dark thirty for SWAT warrants. It has been a very rare event to deal with stray or loose aggressive dogs. 

While I am always alert and scanning (for all kinds of things) when out and walking, loose dogs are the least of my concerns. Stray cats are more of a problem. 

To sum it up: carry a decent flashlight at night, 9 times out of ten that does it. A good loud yell will deter most dogs. Avoid the large aggressive sounding dogs behind the fence, cross the street and move on. Don't stop in front of the house or business with the loud aggressive dog to do some "training." That is silly, annoying and a really bad idea. You are just provoking the dogs. Keep your dog under control and keep moving. 

I don't have an "I got this" mentality. I just move along and try to avoid conflict with other dogs. Most dogs are really not that aggressive and a good stern yell is usually enough. A GSD is not a dog that I, personally, would be too worried about. Most are not that strong, determined and are easily fended off. Pit mixes do concern me and they are a whole other story. If your dog is under control, calm and you can keep moving your generally fine. If your dog is out of control, aggressive and you can't handle it properly when it sees another dog, you will have issues. You and your dog will be a magnet for other dogs to approach. 

***You is meant in general terms and not directed at anyone in particular.***


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

****You is meant in general terms and not directed at anyone in particular.****

Doesn't really cut much ice ... when one "picks and chooses elements" of another members story to ... Critique???" 

I pretty clearly stated ... *the property appeared to be abandoned??? *I had no reason to belive those dogs were still there??? "This" was not a "Training" exercise it was a "Walk" at night ... as we too have done for many many years ... and we also have never had a "problem" until we did. And as for "my" *"I got this attitude" *thanks for the advise ... but you know anything less would have gotten my first "puppy killed!!! "Ambush Predatory" and he was making a beeline for my puppy! And telling him to "GO HOME" was not gonna cut any ice as he had already burst through the front door! So you know ... he was at home???

So I spun my puppy "behind me" and I faced that dog down! Take your best shot, the dog was not looking at me, all he saw was my puppy! But my sudden appearance gave him pause and the owner scooped him ... "problem solved." Anything less than my "Approach" would have gotten my "puppy" eviscerated "advise" from "Pros" notwithstanding. And yet again as for the "GO HOME" approach?? Yep "we" do that one also ... "Police Substation" under full observation of three or four LE personnel ... sorry I did not get there names. But they would say it was 50/50, one dog did as he was told and one dog did not! 

And as I "already" said ... "Door Bolters" (hmmm yet again) and they were aiming at us, so turning and walking away ... did not strike me as a "viable option??" So yes ... once again ... "I Got This" and that time, it seemed pretty clear, I was gonna take a hit??? Because the last dog "was" within 10 feet of us and showed "Zero" interest in stopping! But I slipped on the ice and went down and that is when "Rocky" choose to step up unbid and "forced the remaining dog," to reconsider his life choices??? That dog disappeared and only my continued grip kept "Rocky off that dog!" That speaks to the "Go Home" approach ... just re-saying. 

And as to how where do these dogs come from?? I don't ponder the "mysteries of the universe??? If people say they have "this" issue "I take them at there word." But I can help them out as I don't "Dog Parks" and I don't do "Dog on the Street" meetup's. According to what I do?? I should not have any "stray dog issues???" 

MAWL ... took notice in one of our on going "Dog Park" epics. And she asked "me" well if you don't "Dog Parks" and don't do "Meet and Greets" then where are all these attacks coming from??? That one stumped me?? She then pointed out that in fact most "attacks happen close to home!" And sure enough yep in 16 (now) attempts "all" have occurred "Close to home???"

And "apparently" as I can attest that is a well established fact! Perhaps "some of us" need to live in better neighborhoods??? Not really sure how to accomplish that, as most of the "issue" prone dogs are locked up in backyards??? 

I'll "assume" that your "advise" on the "fence thing" was meant for others??? Because it showing up in my thread "I" found fairly "condescending???" But that's just me ... so whatever. I also don't need any advise on the "difference" between a "Pit attack and a GSD." As I can say now ... "Been there done that and saw the difference" no "Break Stick required in the other nights occurrence, others are free to "discern the difference."

I'm not a "Pro" or a "Newbie" I'm just "JQP" that is also"apparently" very good at what I do. And "anyone" telling me I can't do what I've done ... gets "irksome??" As they say ..."Good Luck" with that. So thinly skinned "Advice" in the form of a lecture ... does not cut much "Ice" with me. As I've been told ... "Show some Respect" apparently that works two ways???

If people don't like my "I got this approach" fine do something different and they can let me "us" know when/if they face down a dog determined to get to there's how that works out??? I already know ... what I'll do. 

But the flashlight, thing ... yes "sound advise" been told that for years ... blab blab. Now ... it makes sense. I'll be looking for a solution, had I had one in my hands (flashlight) ... I may or may not have dropped it ... don't know???


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Chip,
I don't know what to say to you. My advice was general in nature. Not at all directed at you, I don't know you. I'm glad your dog is ok. 


I have read a few of your posts and your need / desire to let your dog know that "you got this" thing. It is a different approach than I use. My dogs know that I am a benevolent dictator and I have their trust and respect. I have no need to prove anything to my dogs. 

I really don't know what to tell you, 16 attempts from loose dogs???? That must be a record. I am all over the place with my dogs and in all my years I haven't had a handful of encounters. You must be one of those "magnets" that attracts all the loose, aggressive dogs. I've calmly walked my dogs past may loose dogs and have not had an issue. Perhaps, it is what I project and what my dogs project that we are not a target. I have also travelled extensively with as many as 3 GSD's in a motor home to trials, seminars, competitions and work events. No issues in my trips across the US, in the motor home or in my car. I must say a few of my dogs have shot a loose dog a look and the loose dog crossed the street. No barking, no growling, just presence. I'm not a huge Cesar Milan fan, but he is right about energy. I have excellent spatial awareness and am well aware of my surroundings at all times. I have not had a dog "sneak" up on me as I am constantly scanning in a relaxed state while watching my dog and his reactions to his surroundings. 

The flashlight absolutely works and has saved a couple of aggressive pit/bully mixes when it stopped them form charging. If I travel or walk my dogs at night I always have a flashlight and a poop bag. I wouldn't walk a dog at night with out a flashlight. You've been told that for years, but yet you didn't do it. Could have stopped the whole incident, more than likely would have. if that GSD didn't commit to attacking your dog he wasn't that aggressive or serious. A nip is not serious aggression. It could have been handled by a yell and a flashlight for sure. Not what I consider a tough dog, nor an overly aggressive dog. 

The above post is directed to you, just so we are clear in response to you. What follows is a general response. 

For others reading this thread, please re read my original post. Common sense goes a long way. Be alert, carry a flashlight at night and avoid the houses with the large aggressive sounding dogs. Cross the street and move along. Keep your dog in control and don't let your dog be the instigator. If a large dog does charge your dog and you can not stop it, then your best bet with a GSD may be to drop your leash and let your dog defend itself. Your dog may be more capable at defending itself than you (in general) may be. It may not even turn into a fight and the dogs will simply sniff each other. Holding your dog back puts your dog at a serious disadvantage and may cause more harm than good. If the loose dog is truly determined to attack your dog and not just bluffing, your leashed dog will be in a bad spot.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Not directed at anybody, just my experience. 

A dog that can be stopped with a confrontation or stern words probably was not going to do much of anything anyhow, so relax. I think a lot of times the goal for the escaped dog is a friendly meet and greet, and although that is not the same goal as the owner of the supervised dog, it should not be considered an attack as is so often presented.

A dog that is determined, and it can be a Chihuhua, to get at somebody's dog, is going to do just that. No human is quicker or more agile than a dog and body blocking is not a viable alternative for a determined dog. It might even backfire and get the owner hurt and it will set the dog up from a potential attack if the owner is not paying attention to his dog or what is going on behind them.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

The flashlight is a good idea. Carrying a flashlight everywhere you go is a good idea. I started carrying a little 1,000 lumen flashlight daily a couple years ago. Once you have one it's amazing how much it actually gets used. After a short time it just becomes a part of your wardrobe along with multi tool, pocket knife, and if you carry, your firearm.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well ... "this response" I perceive as much more "reasonable." And I refuse to be out "reason-abled???" 

A "base assumption" appears to be "however" that becasue "Rocky" happened to be on leash ... *I held him back and so kept him from "defending himself???"* But "NO" ... that is "inaccurate" when I sensed something "different here??" I told him to "Stay" I got this ... and that is what he did! I can't defend a threat and fight with my dog at the same time??? And I simply don't, I tell "my" dog stay! And they are '"no longer a factor in what happens next!" Pretty much that simple ... it's been done "16" times and "proven" to be a good technique, nuff said. 

But you know "now" it's the that "dog was not that bad thing thing???" Sorry you weren't there! "I" have more than enough "first hand experiance" at anticipating a "stray dogs" intend and apparently ... that holds true even in a "cloak of darkness???" Had I told "Rocky" simply to stay and let it go at that ... he would have been injured! His response was "muted" because I "intervened." So no, sorry no leash required, as a matter of fact ... after the first hit. I took the leash off him to use as a "weapon!!" And "Rocky" still did nothing ... as he was trained to do!!! So even though the dog did get by me ... "Rocky was" content that "Daddy" has "still" got this!!

We go down together or we don't go on! No "fire arms as" an emergency back up required ... "I roll hard" if that "approach" does not work for others ... then don't do it. 

But you know ... now it's the that "dog was not that bad thing???" Fine the dogs are still there as far as I know??? Do a road, trip ... come out here and judge for yourself! I'd be more than happy to tell you where they are. Cept of course the difference is "you" would know they are there ... and I did not. 

So yes ... "Clearly" as stated the no flashlight ... was a "My Bad" mistake on my part! No doubt, if I'd had a flashlight most likely my "perfect record" of repelling attempts would "still" be intact?? So y I screwed up ... crap happens. But despite that "we did good! 

*One and and only reminder you will receive. Please read the new announcement at the top of the board and then refrain from all references to pits, pitbulls, APBT, etc. Next time you will go on suspension. We were not kidding about this. 

ADMIN
* 

But ... post analysis "debate." You weren't there, and I was. As to why "apparently" Rocky seems to be a "stray dog magnet??? I have no idea??? He has "Zero" reactions to unknown dogs?? Other dogs are not his concern but "strays" "seem to come after him???" Attempts "attacks" on he and I alone, were to "ramp " up with him" as I was to discover??? 

So four attempts with my "assorted Boxers, Band Dawg and Boxer/APBT mixes" over ten years and nine attempts with my "WL GSD" over three years??? Who is not D/A .. I have no idea what that is about???? 

But you know ... "I'm" not unreasonable ... most likely your advise to "others" is sound advise?? And yes ... "now" the "Flashlight" thing seems much more reasonable to me???

Most likely had I had one ... my perfect record would still be intact??? I don't know??? "Apparently" a "testosterone driven anti stray" approach ... only works when one can "see" a thread ... who knew???

Frankly I'd just as well "bypass" a "debate" on what I do "here" ... but if you insist on pointing to "me" as a target in my thread?? Then I think it's fair to expect ... "feed back??"

If the vast majority of "PET OWNERS," can't do the "I GOT THIS" thing ... no problem ... ... take your chances and "Don't Do It" but for the tens of "owners that get it." I got there backs. But so you know ... telling me ... I can't do what I do ... "is a waste of time!" I conceded the "flashlight thing" and that's the best I can do! The rest kinda sorta falls under the "show me" thing ... most likely only tens of members will get that ... I'm good with that.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I agree with MineAreWorkingline's experience. I've seen two grown men try to stop a dog attacking one of the men's dog. They couldn't. The dog was too fast, too agile and got to the other dog. Luckily the dog was not severely hurt when it was over.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Not directed at anybody, just my experience.
> 
> A dog that can be stopped with a confrontation or stern words probably was not going to do much of anything anyhow, so relax. I think a lot of times the goal for the escaped dog is a friendly meet and greet, and although that is not the same goal as the owner of the supervised dog, it should not be considered an attack as is so often presented.
> 
> A dog that is determined, and it can be a Chihuhua, to get at somebody's dog, is going to do just that. No human is quicker or more agile than a dog and body blocking is not a viable alternative for a determined dog. It might even backfire and get the owner hurt and it will set the dog up from a potential attack if the owner is not paying attention to his dog or what is going on behind them.


Hmm well apparently I unintentionally insulted you??? I don't see my reply anymore so you know "whatever" but if you did see it, ... "I'm Sorry" no disrespect intended ... my bad.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> The flashlight is a good idea. Carrying a flashlight everywhere you go is a good idea. I started carrying a little 1,000 lumen flashlight daily a couple years ago. Once you have one it's amazing how much it actually gets used. After a short time it just becomes a part of your wardrobe along with multi tool, pocket knife, and if you carry, your firearm.


I've acknowledged ... the "Flashlight" you get "zero debate from me on the "Flash Light" advise! I just needed a "Show me" situation to point out why that is "sound advise" for nighttime "dog walking" ... so yeah ... my bad!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

cdwoodcox said:


> The flashlight is a good idea. Carrying a flashlight everywhere you go is a good idea. I started carrying a little 1,000 lumen flashlight daily a couple years ago. Once you have one it's amazing how much it actually gets used. After a short time it just becomes a part of your wardrobe along with multi tool, pocket knife, and if you carry, your firearm.


And then there's me. And the stove trips the house breaker, and I am whipping out my cell phone to give me enough light to see which breakers are tripped.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

A person who reads dogs well could probably stop almost any single dog from getting to theirs. A pack might be different, but a dog savvy person could probably pick out the leaders of the pack and the rest would follow. 

Force the dog to confront the human, not the dog, and few dogs will take you on, if you present yourself as a real threat to the dog. Have the charging dog make eye contact with you, among other things... but you do need to know what you are doing. I'm also not a huge Cesar Millan fan, exactly, but he really does read dogs well, and this is one of the things he does dealing with aggressive dogs. He's far from perfect, but it's easy to watch his videos and to see what I am talking about. 

Or watch a good decoy work a dog. 

Especially effective because most dogs aren't interested in engaging the person, just the dog. 

I recommend a headlamp over a flashlight because it is hands free. I have a really bright one, and could temporarily blind a charging dog if I needed to. It just makes sense to have your hands free walking the dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> And then there's me. And the stove trips the house breaker, and I am whipping out my cell phone to give me enough light to see which breakers are tripped.


Flashlight app was my go to fall back??? But in the real world ... it's just not practical, not to mention the fact that in the ensuing "Chaos" I dropped my phone!!! I only became aware of that fact, when once I got us the heck out of there ... I started to hear "Blue Booth" disconnected??? 

At that point and to be clear * "don't do this!"* I got "Rocky out of there told him to stay and went back for my freaking phone!!! Course nothing had changed ... I till could not see anything?? So off we back to home and I drove back and found my "Phone" with headlights.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip18 said:


> Flashlight app was my go to fall back??? But in the real world ... it's just not practical, not to mention the fact that in the ensuing "Chaos" I dropped my phone!!! I only became aware of that fact, when once I got us the heck out of there ... I started to hear "Blue Booth" disconnected???
> 
> At that point and to be clear * "don't do this!"* I got "Rocky out of there told him to stay and went back for my freaking phone!!! Course nothing had changed ... I till could not see anything?? So off we back to home and I drove back and found my "Phone" with headlights.


Sounds like Harry Potter: "Wand???" Phone, where are you? phone??? At least at home you can dial your number with the land line and that'll wake it up and set it squawking. Of course if the mangies steal the land line phone, chew the end, and hide it under the sofa, and you don't know til it has run out of battery, you really can't use the phone to find the phone trick. Then you need Harry Potter's wand, and "Accio phone!"


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> I recommend a headlamp over a flashlight because it is hands free. I have a really bright one, and could temporarily blind a charging dog if I needed to. It just makes sense to have your hands free walking the dog.


Headlamp would be alright. My flashlight just clips either in a belt or in a pocket same as a pocket knife with a clip on it. Plus the ends on a lot of them are designed to be able to be used as a weapon if one needed . I have numerous of both of these. 
https://www.survivalkit.com/survival-gear/emergency-lighting?product_id=209

LED Lenser® F1R Rechargeable Flashlight : Cabela's


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Muskeg said:


> A person who reads dogs well could probably stop almost any single dog from getting to theirs. A pack might be different, but a dog savvy person could probably pick out the leaders of the pack and the rest would follow.
> 
> Force the dog to confront the human, not the dog, and few dogs will take you on, if you present yourself as a real threat to the dog. Have the charging dog make eye contact with you, among other things... but you do need to know what you are doing. I'm also not a huge Cesar Millan fan, exactly, but he really does read dogs well, and this is one of the things he does dealing with aggressive dogs. He's far from perfect, but it's easy to watch his videos and to see what I am talking about.
> 
> ...


Well ... I am looking into a "Beanie" flash light option! I'll have one ordered soon as I stop doing this??? 

I'm content that even in the dark, I summed up "accurately" that I had a "problem!!" Thinking there were two "GSD's" and now "perceiving" three was uh "confusing???" If there were indeed three dogs and I saw two where was the other one??? And at night and now at a distance I could not tell if the dogs were behind the fence or in front of it???

Hwy 50 was at our backs and we were "now" well clear of the fence! Eye contact with a dog, does not"apparently" work well in the dark??? I was between the dog and "Rocky." That dog blew by leg and struck "Rocky" but he came from the front and not the rear?? That Tan and Black was barely visible and "Rocky" was not visible at all by "me." I knew where "Roc" was but upon "contact" all that was "there" was "Darkness" so you know ... "bear spray" or "strike out" at what and who??? I could have stopped him still if I'd have had a walking stick! So that and a light will be standard accessories for night time walks from this day forward.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> Headlamp would be alright. My flashlight just clips either in a belt or in a pocket same as a pocket knife with a clip on it. Plus the ends on a lot of them are designed to be able to be used as a weapon if one needed . I have numerous of both of these.
> https://www.survivalkit.com/survival-gear/emergency-lighting?product_id=209
> 
> LED Lenser® F1R Rechargeable Flashlight : Cabela's


Yeah my flash light is hanging right by door! It would have been useful the other night.


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## lalabug (Oct 20, 2016)

selzer said:


> sounds like harry potter: "wand???" phone, where are you? Phone??? At least at home you can dial your number with the land line and that'll wake it up and set it squawking. Of course if the mangies steal the land line phone, chew the end, and hide it under the sofa, and you don't know til it has run out of battery, you really can't use the phone to find the phone trick. Then you need harry potter's wand, and "accio phone!"




hahahahha!!!!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> Headlamp would be alright. My flashlight just clips either in a belt or in a pocket same as a pocket knife with a clip on it. Plus the ends on a lot of them are designed to be able to be used as a weapon if one needed . I have numerous of both of these.
> https://www.survivalkit.com/survival-gear/emergency-lighting?product_id=209
> 
> LED Lenser® F1R Rechargeable Flashlight : Cabela's


Chip I feel your pain. The last dog that got Shadow came out of a yard in the dark dead quiet and jumped on her back.

Re the flaslight debate. I have seen many new flashlights come and go but if I know or even think there might be trouble in the dark the only one I am carrying is my trusty Maglite. Years after patrols were behind me it is the one that sits by my bed. With the new LED bulb and the rechargeable battery pack I will make do with one hand to carry it in my other.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> A person who reads dogs well could probably stop almost any single dog from getting to theirs. A pack might be different, but a dog savvy person could probably pick out the leaders of the pack and the rest would follow.
> 
> Force the dog to confront the human, not the dog, and few dogs will take you on, if you present yourself as a real threat to the dog. Have the charging dog make eye contact with you, among other things... but you do need to know what you are doing. I'm also not a huge Cesar Millan fan, exactly, but he really does read dogs well, and this is one of the things he does dealing with aggressive dogs. He's far from perfect, but it's easy to watch his videos and to see what I am talking about.
> 
> ...


I agree that a dog that is acting out of territorialism, pack support, or just being a bonehead can probably be deterred by a human, but when you are dealing with a truly dog aggressive one, I beg to differ. I have seen many sweet and loving dog aggressive ones turn their aggression just as quick to a human if that human interferes with it and its target. I have witnessed several people injured during attacks under those circumstances, one severe.

If you google attacks on dogs, you will find result after result where a human was harmed, sometimes even the owners, trying to get in between a dog aggressive one and a leashed pet, both before and / or during the attack. The results are often poor for the targeted dog. I think Slamdunc even touched on the subject of dog aggressive breeds being "a whole other story".


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Just to touch on using a flashlight, it has to be a very strong bright light. The goal is to use it offensively, meaning the light will disorientate or distract the dog. A flashlight with a strobe" feature works best. It will catch the dog off guard and generally that is enough to deter most dogs. Plus, it illuminates the area around you so you can see what is going on. A strong light will cause a momentary loss of night vision which can last for several seconds. 

I have done this with people and it works. I teach a technique to our academy class where two or three people can sync their approach to a person in the dark alternating their strobes. I've walked up to people doing this and put my hands on them and they never knew I was there. A strong light with a strobe can be very effective. This is the type of flashlight I'm talking about. Not the big yellow lantern you put D cell batteries in before a hurricane in case you lose the power.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> Just to touch on using a flashlight, it has to be a very strong bright light. The goal is to use it offensively, meaning the light will disorientate or distract the dog. A flashlight with a strobe" feature works best. It will catch the dog off guard and generally that is enough to deter most dogs. Plus, it illuminates the area around you so you can see what is going on. A strong light will cause a momentary loss of night vision which can last for several seconds.
> 
> I have done this with people and it works. I teach a technique to our academy class where two or three people can sync their approach to a person in the dark alternating their strobes. I've walked up to people doing this and put my hands on them and they never knew I was there. A strong light with a strobe can be very effective. This is the type of flashlight I'm talking about. Not the big yellow lantern you put D cell batteries in before a hurricane in case you lose the power.


 How many lumens are the flashlights you're using?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> Just to touch on using a flashlight, it has to be a very strong bright light. The goal is to use it offensively, meaning the light will disorientate or distract the dog. A flashlight with a strobe" feature works best. It will catch the dog off guard and generally that is enough to deter most dogs. Plus, it illuminates the area around you so you can see what is going on. A strong light will cause a momentary loss of night vision which can last for several seconds.
> 
> I have done this with people and it works. I teach a technique to our academy class where two or three people can sync their approach to a person in the dark alternating their strobes. I've walked up to people doing this and put my hands on them and they never knew I was there. A strong light with a strobe can be very effective. This is the type of flashlight I'm talking about. Not the big yellow lantern you put D cell batteries in before a hurricane in case you lose the power.


Can you recommend any?


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

MAWL and cdwoodcox,
I have flashlights that range from 200 lumens to 1000. Candela power is important. I don't get hung up on the specs, the light needs to be bright and have the strobe option. I have a small weapon mounted light on my pistol that strobes and works well. 

Walmart has inexpensive flashlights that work:

https://www.walmart.com/search/?method=related&query=flashlights+very+bright#searchProductResult

Flashlights

You can spend more and the rechargeable ones are really good.

The link from cdwoodcox is good as well.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

I'm sorry that happened to you, Chip. That sucks, and I'm sure it scared the bejeezus out of you. I know it would me, given that it was dark and hard to see anything.

However, I'm curious about something. Your dog didn't react at all. Has he reacted before when confronted with a potentially aggressive dog? Did he try to defend himself the last time this happened? If he has, then maybe your dog had a better read on this loose dog than you did?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I agree that a dog that is acting out of territorialism, pack support, or just being a bonehead can probably be deterred by a human, but when you are dealing with a truly dog aggressive one, I beg to differ. I have seen many sweet and loving dog aggressive ones turn their aggression just as quick to a human if that human interferes with it and its target. I have witnessed several people injured during attacks under those circumstances, one severe.
> 
> If you google attacks on dogs, you will find result after result where a human was harmed, sometimes even the owners, trying to get in between a dog aggressive one and a leashed pet, both before and / or during the attack. The results are often poor for the targeted dog. I think Slamdunc even touched on the subject of dog aggressive breeds being "a whole other story".


Well yeah, no doubt, people that "choose" to get between there dog and an unknown charging dog, should understand that it "could be a risky endeavor!"

I'm good with me being the first line of defense for my dog(s) others are of course "free to do as they see fit." Still ... it's best to have "some kinda of a plan" before a "Crap Going Down" situation arises. "Apparently" not having to fight with your own dog first ... is a pretty sound first step.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I just think they need to have really tough penalties for dogs that are ill contained. What happened to you should have never happened. 

Slam said if you encounter an aggressive dog, cross the street. I don't agree with this. I don't buy this "somehow got out" BS.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> Chip I feel your pain. The last dog that got Shadow came out of a yard in the dark dead quiet and jumped on her back.
> 
> Re the flaslight debate. I have seen many new flashlights come and go but if I know or even think there might be trouble in the dark the only one I am carrying is my trusty Maglite. Years after patrols were behind me it is the one that sits by my bed. With the new LED bulb and the rechargeable battery pack I will make do with one hand to carry it in my other.


Ugh sorry that happened!! Out of the dark ... is pretty startlingly??? If you can't see ... you just stop and spend precocious seconds, trying to figure out what and where???? :surprise:

The* "Flashlight" *is not really a "debate??" It is sound advise ... and I will say *"Thank You" Slam for filling in details as regards that "Tool."*The "insight" provide was news to me???

I put a greater value on "having my hands free" then on being able to uh ..."See???" Sometimes consistently being "that guy" ... has "blow back???" But the "School of Hard knocks" ... usually serves as a "Wake Up Call." 

But in my (lame) defense ... I was in this thread.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-if-another-dog-attacks-your-while-leash.html

And no one mentioned ... what about ... "Attacks" at Night???" Apparently ... others also "assumed" that they would be able to "See" a threat approaching??? 

I can't speak for others ... but yes ... I actively "chose" to be a non flashlight carrying tool! I "actively" took my "I only need a SSL, thing" a "bridge to far!" Rocky paid a "small price" for my "arrogance" but now I know ... "my bad."


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Don't you have street lights where you live?


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I just think they need to have really tough penalties for dogs that are ill contained. What happened to you should have never happened.
> 
> *Slam said if you encounter an aggressive dog, cross the street.* I don't agree with this. I don't buy this "somehow got out" BS.


I was talking about an aggressive dog in a yard, sorry if I was unclear. If I saw an aggressive loose dog, crossing the street might not do much good. With fenced dogs I would put some distance between us and keep moving.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> I was talking about an aggressive dog in a yard, sorry if I was unclear. If I saw an aggressive loose dog, crossing the street might not do much good. With fenced dogs I would put some distance between us and keep moving.


Around where I live, there are poorly contained DA breeds at every corner and in between. I just quit walking my dogs around my neighborhood.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Slamdunc said:


> Just to touch on using a flashlight, it has to be a very strong bright light. The goal is to use it offensively, meaning *the light will disorientate or distract the dog. * A flashlight with a strobe" feature works best. It will catch the dog off guard and generally that is enough to deter most dogs. Plus, it illuminates the area around you so you can see what is going on. A strong light will cause a momentary loss of night vision which can last for several seconds.


Well despite my "tude" at times ... I am not "unreasonable." And I "recognize" and will acknowledge valuable information and insight when I "see" it!! Hmm ...no pun intended.  

JQP (that's me) apparently considers walking at night a "relatively" safe endeavor?? There is not really any sound basis for that belief ... but that's what we do??? 

I'm pretty sure had I had such a flashlight and done as you suggested. I had have not lost those seconds trying to figure out ... what the heck is going on here?? Trying to figure out ... what the heck is going here??? 

The dog retreated once he realized ... "I" was there??? But you know ... to late for my "Perfect Record." I still want my frees and going forward a walking stick will be plan A, and I'm with the "Beanie" light option but yeah ... "I'll" add a "real flashlight" also, if I can see something first?? That would I "assume" give me time to go for emergency lighting "B." I'll still be adding a "Walking Stick" but thanks for the insight and the advise. Been there done that works for me.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Kyrielle said:


> I'm sorry that happened to you, Chip. That sucks, and I'm sure it scared the bejeezus out of you. I know it would me, given that it was dark and hard to see anything.
> 
> However, I'm curious about something. Your dog didn't react at all. Has he reacted before when confronted with a potentially aggressive dog? Did he try to defend himself the last time this happened? If he has, then maybe your dog had a better read on this loose dog than you did?


LOL ... yes a long back story there. 

Most likely "Rocky" could and did see the prep?? And that's why the dog came from the front and not the rear??? Rocky does not bark but he "Alerts" those "Pointy Ears" you don't get that with "Floppy Eared Boxers." That's how "we" communicate but I could not see him??? So I lost our first line of communication in an instant??? 

So now "defense" was up to me??? He was trained ... not to engage ... I can't deal with a charging dog and 112 lbs of "ticked off WL GSD??" Pattern of behavior there ... five packs fights and a trip to the "ER" for me from breaking up said "Pack Fights!" Caused by "Rocky!!" I can't defend him and deal with his "crap" so I don't! We work as a "team" and his "job" if we are under assault is to do "Nothing!!" And he ... is good at his job! 

The rest of the story is here. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/399905-what-would-my-dog-do-2.html

Pretty much "Bomb proof" and "yes" he will stay behind me and do "Nothing" ... "Daddy" has got this! Worked out fine nine times but in total darkness ... not so much??? As I said ... "my bad" ... but no big deal. No problems for him on our next walk which was still at night but uh ... not in that direction! 

Yes ... I messed up but even still ... he "knew" I was right there with him! Crap happens, I "assume" he just "accepted" this as one of "Daddy's" nut ball outings?? No "ramifications" what so ever.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Don't you have street lights where you live?


LOL ... "street lights???" Well yeah in the neighborhoods, they are there ... but we were on the frontage road next to "Hwy 50" it's zoned commercial. It was a "Thrift Store" at one point and then became a "Commercial Truck Business?? And then that closed.

I was going that way in "Daylight" and saw new owners behind the fence and I saw at that time two "Black and Tan GSD's" and a little Chi" during daylight. They were "bad news" when we got home ... I told "Marilyn" don't go that way!! Sound advise. 

But the other night "I" choose to go that way. The building appeared to be abandoned??? So we where closer to the fence then the "Hwy" ... apparently "Rocky" saw the dogs in there and did "Alert" that something was there??? 

I disregarded that and let him stare into the darkness??? Next thing I know the dogs bang into the fence?? OK good enough we'er out of here! So we now step well away from the fence and proceed on our intended path ... but ... I change my mind ... and go back ... screw this we will go another direction. But"'now" those dogs "knew" we were there!

When we turned back all "heck broke lose??" We were backed off from the fence and Hwy 50 was to our back?? The dogs were going nuts and I "knew" something had changed??? "Something" is not right here??? So we stopped and waited?? I still saw two GSD's I thought, but one of them had gotten out?? Most likely that is the why of the "ramped" up crazy??? 

I was still pondering the two or three GSD's thing??? And are the ones I see behind the fence or in front of it??? The one that struck never made a sound ... and I only saw him at the last second as he blew by me??? At that point he did not care about me but when I turned my full attention towards him ... he did! And he retreated back into the darkness!! 

But streetlights are few and far between here. The property where we had the issue is just out of "Streetlight" range ... that is where we were heading but we did not make it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Slamdunc said:


> I was talking about an aggressive dog in a yard, sorry if I was unclear. If I saw an aggressive loose dog, crossing the street might not do much good. With fenced dogs I would put some distance between us and keep moving.


Yep ..."SOP" gain distance but "this" time it did not work out. So I had to go to "Plan B." 

Apparently "Plan B" means ... you screwed up .. so do the best you can with what you got ... who knew???


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I just moved to a neighborhood with tons of loose dogs. Every local has to have two dogs and they are to be "free to roam the woods like their ancestors did"... tongue in cheek there... but it is the local attitude.

I have sent two DA pitbull mixes running with my little air horn. Doesn't take much and they disappear very quickly. So far impressed although I will concede that two data points are not a conclusion. Most of the other dogs I'm winning over. Realizing most dogs are scared or super friendly. And the large intact rottie that approaches too aggressively (silent, stiff and staring)... I just avoid that road now. 

Just another idea.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

uh-oh. I have heard that those air horns work, but if we follow the new rules around here we wouldn't have been able to hear that good piece of advice.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

DutchKarin said:


> I just moved to a neighborhood with tons of loose dogs. Every local has to have two dogs and they are to be "free to roam the woods like their ancestors did"... tongue in cheek there... but it is the local attitude.
> 
> I have sent two DA pitbull mixes running with my little air horn. Doesn't take much and they disappear very quickly. So far impressed although I will concede that two data points are not a conclusion. Most of the other dogs I'm winning over. Realizing most dogs are scared or super friendly. And the large intact rottie that approaches too aggressively (silent, stiff and staring)... I just avoid that road now.
> 
> Just another idea.


Nope it's more than two data points. Others have also reported good results with an Air Horn. Heck my oft mentioned "Pet Convincer" could have most likely worked?? But you know ... I'm kinda "anal" so I'd have most likely left that by the "Flashlight?" 

And yes most likely an "Air Horn" would have worked. Assuming I could have "deployed" it without dropping it first??? But crap happens fast anyway and the first thing I noticed was I could not see anything???? So my go to plan ... "Shield and Defend" ... was instantly "neutralized" by unexpected "environmental factors" ... I can't "see" in the dark ... who knew? Aw well live and learn, so apparently ... sound advise for us "Night Time Dog Walkers" is uh ... "Carry a Flashlight" ... lesson learned.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> uh-oh. I have heard that those air horns work, but if we follow the new rules around here we wouldn't have been able to hear that good piece of advice.


New rule means, I suppose we no longer have "those dogs" as an issue?? So go us ... "Technology is our friend."


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Well my "Perfect" record of "no dog gets to mine without getting past me is "toast!!!" One did and it was a freaking "Black and Tan GSD!!!!"
> 
> Rocky is fine ... I'm fine. I'm just seriously ticked off!!!! Perfect storm and yet again ... I violated my own advice!! New tenants moved into a house on the corner. I told Marily ... don't go by that area ...large chain length fence with "extremely badly behaved" dogs there. And at least one of them was a GSD!!!
> 
> ...


Call Susanna or Nicole and report it. They need to know. :frown2:


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Slamdunc said:


> I really don't know what to tell you, 16 attempts from loose dogs???? That must be a record. I am all over the place with my dogs and in all my years I haven't had a handful of encounters. You must be one of those "magnets" that attracts all the loose, aggressive dogs.


Its not Chip its this area. I've had at least that many experiences with lose dogs in the 12 years I've lived here. Hubby and I put up a fence around the front of our house inside of our fenced 5 acres to keep our dogs safe. Just yesterday we had 2 neighbor dogs in the out fence barking at our dogs inside their inner fence. So frustrating. Then my dogs get blamed for barking... grrr..... I won't walk them around here. They have about 1/4 acre in the inner fence to run in. If I want to walk them we load up and go out to the river. 

BTW to the person who asked about street lights....:rofl: what the heck are those... There are no street lights here.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> Call Susanna or Nicole and report it. They need to know. :frown2:


Who are "Susanna and Nicole??? I'll go back tomorrow "alone" and see if those dogs are still there??? It just my be that need help???


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Who are "Susanna and Nicole??? I'll go back tomorrow "alone" and see if those dogs are still there??? It just my be that need help???


Sorry thought you knew them. Lyon county animal control. Susanna helps a lot with dog-town.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> Sorry thought you knew them. Lyon county animal control. Susanna helps a lot with dog-town.


Hmm sounds like it's me ... "Rocky" came from "Dog Town Rescue" we worked with "Loraine." I was volunteer and a "Foster" "Rocky" was a real cutie when we got him but seven months later ... he put us pretty much out of the "Foster Business." He was a full time effort as was to discover ... worked out fine in the long run. 

And streetlights yes ... Dayton would be the big city compared to where you are. We do have some "Streetlights" where I am ... spaced well apart (suburbs) ... we also have sidewalks! But a no streetlight zone, is about 40 yards from me ... frontage road Hwy 50. Then they are half a mile a mile or ten miles apart. Used so you know where to turn to get off the highway. 

I had a client in "Sliver Springs" and aside from the Alt 95 Hwy Street lights ... I'm not sure if they had any Street lights at all once you turned off the highway???? 

And having to built another fence inside a fence to keep other peoples dog out ... that must get irksome???


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Street lights??? We don't need no stinkin' street lights! We got STARS baby. Stars and moonlight, when the earth and the clouds aren't covering them up. Fun to walk home four miles, after work, leaving the car at the service station, and getting home about 3AM. 55mph down my road about 3 miles, and no cars. Not one the whole time I was walking down my road. I'd say they roll the sidewalks up after 10 PM, but there are not sidewalks. Big ditches, yeah, no sidewalks no street lights, no cops, no robbers, no limit on how many GSDs you can have, and you better have a gun.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Not to many loose dogs around here. There are 3 that get out all the time(GSD, cocker spaniel, yorkie) and run around. Can't catch any of them either. 

No street lights or sidewalks here either. Dogs are not the problem, but coyotes are. No problems so far, but they are here. 2-3 of them attacked a Weim not to long ago, so bigger dogs are not safe either.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Street lights??? We don't need no stinkin' street lights! We got STARS baby. Stars and moonlight, when the earth and the clouds aren't covering them up. Fun to walk home four miles, after work, leaving the car at the service station, and getting home about 3AM. 55mph down my road about 3 miles, and no cars. Not one the whole time I was walking down my road. I'd say they roll the sidewalks up after 10 PM, but there are not sidewalks. Big ditches, yeah, no sidewalks no street lights, no cops, no robbers, no limit on how many GSDs you can have, and you better have a gun.


LOL ... I'm not even gonna try you always out "Pioneer Women" me and ... what's a gun.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Not to many loose dogs around here. There are 3 that get out all the time(GSD, cocker spaniel, yorkie) and run around. Can't catch any of them either.
> 
> No street lights or sidewalks here either. Dogs are not the problem, but coyotes are. No problems so far, but they are here. 2-3 of them attacked a Weim not to long ago, so bigger dogs are not safe either.


Yeah we have "Coyotes" out here also! And one night on a walk in our neighborhood and this time we were under a streetlight! :laugh2:

Rocky had point, so I was following behind a few yards. That night was the first time I'd seen the alert thing??? He stopped peered into the darkness looked at me looked back into the darkness and turned around to go back home??? He walked right past me and kept going??? I stared out into the darkness and could of course see nothing??? But that time I said "screw this and followed him home!! I have no idea what was out there?? But I took his lead ... and followed him home, he's not done that since??? 


Most likely it was a "Coyote" or it could have been a herd of wild horses?? We had to walk past a herd once on our way to "Mavricks" I did not know they were in that particular field. We kept well clear as they are a common neighbor occurrence around here. 

They were cool with us but the "male" was watching "Rocky" like a "Hawk!!" :surprise:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Everyone tells me there are coyotes out here, but I think the coyotes tell all the other coyotes not to come to my section of the county because there is a huge pack of howling wolves/dogs/something living that way. Fox, coyotes, Deer they leave my little plot of tundra alone. We get an occasional suicidal rabbit, and there is the possum. Rats and snakes come up from the river, but no coyotes. The gun is for critters, mostly, rats of whatever flavor, human rats as well if need be.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Not to many loose dogs around here. There are 3 that get out all the time(GSD, cocker spaniel, yorkie) and run around. Can't catch any of them either.
> 
> No street lights or sidewalks here either. Dogs are not the problem, but coyotes are. No problems so far, but they are here. 2-3 of them attacked a Weim not to long ago, so bigger dogs are not safe either.


Oh we've got all kinds of critters here. Last spring we had a mama bear with cubs, a mountain lion, raccoons .... and of course coyotes are all year long. We have great horned owls that swoop up smaller dogs. I have no idea why so many people let their dogs run loose.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

*Up Date * 

Well ... this "Situation" has proved ... "interesting???" And I did in fact go to "talk to the owners" ... as a "Rational Human" (just saying.) Marilyn, made first contact and I then followed up. And "NO" there will be no "Animal Control involvement!" When I went there to "follow up" and I explained what had happened ... the owners were horrified!! And we both pointed to the same gate where we suspect one of the two "GSD's" got out??? 

But continueing with the dogs ... one of which, I could not see in the darkness but he was an "Irish Wolfhound Mix!!" Apparently that "grey/black/white thing they have going on ... makes them to "invisible in the dark" ... who knew???? But as I said we "stopped" becasue "something" seemed different this time??? And as it happened ... yes ... yes "something" was! It was in fact two ... full spec "WL Femle GSD's." One of them was a "Family Pet" and most likely the one I could see and she did what I expected ... stayed at the fence acting like a fool?? That's why we backed off as far as we could but that's not why we stopped. That dog was doing as I "expected" nothing new there. But "something" was different???

As it happened the most probable "suspect" of the two was "not" a "Family Pet???" Turns out she was a "former" MWD ... "Drug Detention" dog from Mexico!!! So it was a "you guys ... hold his attention and I'll go get them kinda thing??" That's what I "felt" and that's why we stopped! 

The only reason she got washed out was becasue her "handler let her get pregnant" and she was going to be destroyed! So "now" she was going to be "PTS!" But she was "rescued" and that is how she came to be where she was!! The "Irish Wolfhound Mix" that I did not see ... was her son??? 

And it turns out that "no" the dogs are not "abandoned?? In fact ... they are all from "Mexico" and the owners plan on setting up a "Rescue Organization" right by the police sub station on our corner??? 

They were "horrified" that this happened and plan on making changes. They had also planned on using the name "Dog Town Rescue" ... I told them well they could but "here" that name is already taken as that is where "Rocky" came from. 

Have to say ... my change of "attitude" was becasue "Marilyn" went down first. She met the dogs (the GSD's) in particular and came back saying ... sweet dogs, well behaved and beautiful??? Well you know "show me" so I went down myself. And yes all of them were very nice dogs, and in fact there were three chocolate colored bundles of hair that I could also not see.

But the Tan and Black "WL GSD's" ... zero people issues??? Aside from my "astonishment" at how seriously small they were by comparison to "Rocky" I was impressed and now ... I can no longer "honestly" referrer to "people friendly, "WL GSD's" as a "mythical beast??" That ... kinda sucks "for me" but as I am want to say "Show Me" and they did!

They said ... bring "Rocky" down and we can introduce all the dogs??? I said of course "Thank You" but "no" that is outside my comfort zone. But I did offer to help them with "Dog Training/Volunteer" once they get set up and clearly they

I guess as the saying goes ... "things are not always what they appear to be???"


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip18 said:


> *Up Date *
> 
> Well ... this "Situation" has proved ... "interesting???" And I did in fact go to "talk to the owners" ... as a "Rational Human" (just saying.) Marilyn, made first contact and I then followed up. And "NO" there will be no "Animal Control involvement!" When I went there to "follow up" and I explained what had happened ... the owners were horrified!! And we both pointed to the same gate where we suspect one of the two "GSD's" got out???
> 
> ...


It is ALWAYS best to sleep on things, and let logic/facts prevail over raw emotion. Glad you found people that are responsible and respectful, who will fix their end so everyone is safer. Maybe also good to have someone with a cool-head lead the way as well. 

Now, maybe, you've gained some friends. I hope so. And hope that that will benefit all the dogs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> It is ALWAYS best to sleep on things, and let logic/facts prevail over raw emotion. Glad you found people that are responsible and respectful, who will fix their end so everyone is safer. Maybe also good to have someone with a cool-head lead the way as well.
> 
> Now, maybe, you've gained some friends. I hope so. And hope that that will benefit all the dogs.


Get out of my head. Yes ... "good advise" per usual! 

I am "impressed" and amazed with there dogs "Group Dynamics!!" And there dogs free interaction with people, was absolutely amazing!!!

When I told them what happened ... they immediately called forward "JoJo" ex MWD???? And yeah ... I was impressed with her! 

So group dynamics ... those folks got that nailed down clearly... no doubt! But one on one with there dogs behavior ... no not a fan. When they open the gate "all the dogs go out." They don't go "anywhere" but they were not given "permission to exceed the threshold! That is a "Hugh" no no for "me!" And if there is a vehical there ... "JoJo" does a "vehical search!!! :laugh2:

All the dogs were "amazing" and well behaved (my criticism) aside. Honestly a person that had a "Fear of Dogs" issue would be very comfortable around that pack. I was ... "amazed" and I saw those "People Friendly" WL GSD's and it made think ... what is "Rocky's" people issue exactly??? 

Side note "Rocky's" last people encounter ... we were approached by an unexpected "group"of workers?? Volunteer day and one stepped forward from the group?? And asked to pet ... I'd not seen any issues with him for years so I say "Yes." She moves forward and then her face goes "White" and she stops??? I'm like whatever and we load up and leave.

Marilyn tells me "later" Rocky snapped at her??? I never saw it happen but I did "notice" the person that asked, stopped moving forward pretty quickly??? 

Usually it's just "Rocky and myself" but that time "Marilyn" was there also??? So those two "WL GSD" were clearly people friendly but my guy ... not so much?? Whatever happened (with Rocky) was to subtle and quick for me to take note of??? But "clearly" something happened there ... oh well back to being more people "anal" as regards "Strangers" and "Rocky." 

But the "Dog Attack" thing ... yeah ...not at all a situation I was expecting??? Letting cooler heads prevail seems to have worked out all around.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> *Up Date *
> 
> Well ... this "Situation" has proved ... "interesting???" And I did in fact go to "talk to the owners" ... as a "Rational Human" (just saying.) Marilyn, made first contact and I then followed up. And "NO" there will be no "Animal Control involvement!"


LCAS are not the bad guys they always try to resolve situations. They are amazing people and do their very best to get all dogs into homes or rescue. 

Glad things worked out though. Interesting another rescue in the area. Keep your eyes on them. So many times people get in over their heads too quickly and end up with hording situations. 

Side note rant: We have so many unwanted dogs in this area that our shelters are overflowing and several of the rescues bring in dogs from other areas. It makes me nuts!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> LCAS are not the bad guys they always try to resolve situations. They are amazing people and do their very best to get all dogs into homes or rescue.
> 
> Glad things worked out though. Interesting another rescue in the area. Keep your eyes on them. So many times people get in over their heads too quickly and end up with hording situations.
> 
> Side note rant: We have so many unwanted dogs in this area that our shelters are overflowing and several of the rescues bring in dogs from other areas. It makes me nuts!


Oh I was not implying they were the "Bad Guys." But generally "third" party interjection is only required when two parties can't agree. So they do something about the gate and JO JO gets a pass. :smile2:


I don't know the whole story with what they are planning?? But they are right here so most likely I'll find out more. The name thing is going to be interesting?? And yes a lot of dogs in trouble but if some of us can help just one ....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I prefer to work things out with neighbors without calling in authorities of any kind if at all possible.


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