# How to build tug drive?



## DJEtzel

Can anyone direct me to some good videos or explain some general ways to build drive in toys? I'm pretty good at expanding drive once a dog has a little, and Frag has GREAT ball drive, but I'm looking to build his drive with a tug for agility. He won't go for a ball on a rope (because he doesn't like tug) and balls are easy to misplace on the course and hard to hold. 

So I just want to know how to get him real interested in the tug to make it rewarding. Bailey LOVES tug, and I wish Frag had that kind of enthusiasm. 

Thanks in advance.


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## CassandGunnar

I did some drilling around and there isn't much out there that I could find. I've never really had an issue with this in any of my dogs (sort of with Gunnar, but only with certain toys. He doesn't want to waste time tugging, he wants you to throw it again so he can go get it)

Try this as a start.

Tug Drive | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog


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## DJEtzel

Thank you Randy! I will watch it as soon as I get home! (I'm at work right now...)


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## Hillary_Plog

Here is a Michael Ellis video that addresses building and using tug drive. It's on the Leerburg website for 12.00...you could maybe look around and see if it's on youtube or the Michael Ellis website. 

Leerburg On Demand | The Power of Playing Tug With Your Dog

Just a thought, you said he has ball drive...what about his prey drive? If he has even just a little prey drive, you could use a flirt pole to hone the prey drive and once he get's a "bite", let him win and have it. If he lets go, the game starts over. After he starts to "like" winning, you can start by giving the pole a tug once he bites and if he holds on, for even a second, let him win. Then repeat the game if he lets go. Build up to him tugging for longer and longer before he "wins". Then you can transition the flirt pole for fleecy type of puppy tug, then to the more traditional tugs once he starts to like it.


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## FG167

I have used a flirt pole for reinforcement in prey driven dogs. 

Or with my one treat driven but NOT prey driven dog. I bought the little tug toys that are treat holders. He would put the toy in his mouth more readily and it was easier to get him to bite down and play with it. 

Like this


Or, have you tried a marker system? I taught the hold for Schutzhund by marking/rewarding when Madix would really clamp down on the dowel. What if you do the same for the tug? Slowly increase the increments of holding and pulling? I'm just throwing random thoughts out...


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## Liesje

A tip: for some dogs, tug is too confrontational at first. Find ways of making it less so. For example, put the tug toy on a leash, and tug on that so there is some distance. Or, you can turn sideways. Both ways, you are not inadvertently pressuring the dog by leaning into them.

Also, make sure to let the dog win!!! I always read "never let the dog win" as the "rule" for playing tug. Nonsense! What is the point then? When I start playing with puppies that aren't born obsessed with biting and tugging, I am really over dramatic. I grunt when they pull on me and basically let them pull me over and pull the toy out of my hands. Then I clap and praise and they circle back for more.


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## Zahnburg

Danielle,

I do not understand exactly what you are doing with the ball if you and the dog are not actively playing with it. Do you just throw it and the dog gets it??
If this is the case then the dog simply does not understand how to play. When you play with the dog it is important that the play is WITH YOU. The ball or tug or whatever is just the means through which the dog plays WITH YOU. 
You need to teach the dog how to play, then it will not matter so much what object is used (ball, tug, etc.) 
I hope this makes scense to you, if not I will try to explain it further. It is a very important concept.


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## DJEtzel

Thank you for all of the ideas guys, I like a lot of them and will be working on them. Flirt pole sounds like a great idea, as does the clicker. I don't really think it's a lack of confidence thing and me being all up in his space, but I will try dragging it or pulling from the side with minimal eye contact and see how it goes too. 

Zahn- usually it is somewhat engaging, but you are right, we can only engage so much with a tennis ball. The ball is his reward though, so throwing the ball for him is rewarding, however I want to be able to engage more with him, which is why I want to build drive in tug. What we're doing now is getting all wound up and excited with me sort of teasing with the ball, so that when I throw it for him (usually just bounce it off the ground) he's all amped up and it's more rewarding.


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## Zahnburg

DJEtzel said:


> Zahn- usually it is somewhat engaging, but you are right, we can only engage so much with a tennis ball. The ball is his reward though, so throwing the ball for him is rewarding, however I want to be able to engage more with him, which is why I want to build drive in tug. What we're doing now is getting all wound up and excited with me sort of teasing with the ball, so that when I throw it for him (usually just bounce it off the ground) he's all amped up and it's more rewarding.


 Yes, throwing the ball can be rewarding to the dog, but this only involves the dog and the ball, you are not really in the picture. To me it is very important for the owner to be in the picture. To me it is very important that the if a ball is thrown the dog should bring it back to the handler for play; the ball, by itself, should be worthless. It is the play with the handler that should be important to the dog.
It is kind of interesting that this is brought up at now as I just recently (on Sunday) got a new bitch. The previous owner only played with her by "fetch" with two balls, so she did not really understand playing with the handler. I have had her 5 days now and already she has learned how to play with me. It does not take much effort on your part, as dogs naturally want to play with you, they just need to be shown how to do this. What you need to do is to stop concentrating so much on the object and concentrate on engaging your dog. He will recgonize this and engage you too.


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## Jax08

Danielle, I had to teach Jax to tug. She already eagerly brings the toys to me to throw but I had to play with a toy by 'teasing' her with it so she would grab it. Once she would grab it, I would tell her "tug". I always let her 'win' the toy that we're tugging on. she's building her enthusiasm to play tug with me and I'm going to have my trainer teach me how to build it more next session.

My goal is to be able to reward her with the tug instead of sending her away from me to get the frisbee/ball.


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## DJEtzel

Zahnburg said:


> Yes, throwing the ball can be rewarding to the dog, but this only involves the dog and the ball, you are not really in the picture. To me it is very important for the owner to be in the picture. To me it is very important that the if a ball is thrown the dog should bring it back to the handler for play; the ball, by itself, should be worthless. It is the play with the handler that should be important to the dog.
> It is kind of interesting that this is brought up at now as I just recently (on Sunday) got a new bitch. The previous owner only played with her by "fetch" with two balls, so she did not really understand playing with the handler. I have had her 5 days now and already she has learned how to play with me. It does not take much effort on your part, as dogs naturally want to play with you, they just need to be shown how to do this. What you need to do is to stop concentrating so much on the object and concentrate on engaging your dog. He will recgonize this and engage you too.


He doesn't recognize it though, which is what I need help with.  Fetch is very rewarding for him, and I'm the only one that can start it, so I use it, but I do want something more engaging. 



Jax08 said:


> Danielle, I had to teach Jax to tug. She already eagerly brings the toys to me to throw but I had to play with a toy by 'teasing' her with it so she would grab it. Once she would grab it, I would tell her "tug". I always let her 'win' the toy that we're tugging on. she's building her enthusiasm to play tug with me and I'm going to have my trainer teach me how to build it more next session.
> 
> My goal is to be able to reward her with the tug instead of sending her away from me to get the frisbee/ball.


This is exactly what I want to do too. I will try pairing it with a word and always letting him win and see where that gets us.


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## onyx'girl

Some dogs just won't tug. I have two that weren't conditioned to tug when young and now as adults just won't engage strongly in tug. One, I blame on her tooth alignment, but Onyx has no reason not to, other than we never played tug when she was young. Even when they are tugging on a toy with Karlo, the females give up way before he ever does.


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## Jax08

Danielle - When I first started with Jax, as soon as she engaged I let go and made a big happy deal out of it. It helps if you can get him in drive first. When you play frisbee with him, does he ever tug on the frisbee? That might be a good time to teach him 'tug'


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## Zahnburg

Danielle,

None of the advice you have recieved is wrong, most everything mentioned will work and will give you the results that I think you are looking for. BUT what you are describing sounds to me like a lack of relationship between you and your dog. Sure you can back-tie the dog, make some drive with the tug, and you will end up with the dog looking at the tug the same way he currently looks at the ball. Yes, by doing this you will teach the dog to tug, but only for the purpose of getting it away from you.
What you really need to think about is do you want the dog wanting to play with the tug (or ball or whatever) or do you want him to want to play with you? 
Just an idea for you to think about.


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## Liesje

I agree with Art as well. What I love about tug (and ball/fetch) with my dogs is that when they "win" then come *right* back at me, Nikon will even jump up on me and smash the tug into my chest, or I raise my hands and he jumps up and aims it back into my hands. When Nikon was younger, he would always try to take the toy away to chew it. It took a while to build more relationship into the playing, so that the reward is really being with me and the toy is merely a bridge. Some SchH people will say that if you use a toy for training, you should *only* take that toy out during training and be sure to put it away while the dog still wants it. I disagree with this. Both my dogs love Gappay balls the most. Guess what are scattered around the house and yard? The same Gappay balls! But if I pick up a stick, they will drop the ball and come tug on the stick. Whatever toy *I'm* interacting with is the one they want to play with. Pan hasn't had the same issue where he just wants to win the toy and run off, he's always been more naturally engaged with me. If I let go of the string he comes between my legs or circles me really tight until I grab hold of it again.


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## onyx'girl

Does Coke or Kenya play tug, Lies?


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## Jax08

Back-tie the dog?? Why would you do that?


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## onyx'girl

To build drive!


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## Jax08

I understand that part of the reasoning to back-tie a dog but this topic is to build tug drive and it doesn't sound like Frag will even tug with her right now so why would you back tie the dog to teach him to tug? I guess my thinking was that the emphasis was on the 'tug' and he wasn't anywhere near ready to build MORE drive in the equation yet.

The second part of what Art said is dead on. You have to have a relationship with your dog. Jax was not relating her 'reward' back to me. She would just go do her thing happy as a lark and ignore what I wanted. You need to build a relationship with him so he wants to 'work' with you.


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## DJEtzel

onyx'girl said:


> Some dogs just won't tug. I have two that weren't conditioned to tug when young and now as adults just won't engage strongly in tug. One, I blame on her tooth alignment, but Onyx has no reason not to, other than we never played tug when she was young. Even when they are tugging on a toy with Karlo, the females give up way before he ever does.


See, we played tug with Frag quite a bit as a puppy and he loved it. Now he will play tug with some other dogs (mostly Bailey), but not us. 



Jax08 said:


> Danielle - When I first started with Jax, as soon as she engaged I let go and made a big happy deal out of it. It helps if you can get him in drive first. When you play frisbee with him, does he ever tug on the frisbee? That might be a good time to teach him 'tug'


He won't touch a frisbee....


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## Jax08

So he does play tug? Then everything I said is irrelevant. I thought he didn't play tug at all. Art is 100% dead on...you need to work on your relationship with Frag so he wants to play with you.


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## DJEtzel

He will sort of play tug with Bailey, and occasionally another dog.

He will play with me and loves to play, just not with the TUG... I don't know how I would increase our relationship anymore than it already is...


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## Jax08

Liesje said:


> When Nikon was younger, he would always try to take the toy away to chew it. It took a while to build more relationship into the playing, so that the *reward is really being with me* *and the toy is merely a bridge. *


Ask Lies.  I don't think it's about "increasing" your relationship but altering parts of it. 

I'm slowly doing this with Jax. She still has her favorite toys and will ignore other offerings for her frisbee or her ruffwear egg but is getting so she will play with whatever I have instead of going to look for her own entertainment.


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## DJEtzel

Right. He doesn't go looking for his own entertainment and won't play with balls or much else on his own(he'll destuff something on his own, but that's about all), he just isn't interested in tugging at all. With Bailey, it's not really tug, but he holds a long toy and drags her around, flinging her about. There's really no tugging going on on her end, so there's no resistence like with people. I feel like teaching him to "drop it" ruined him from taking hold of anything I had..

Hopefully Lies will post more, thank you.


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