# How to teach: No Counter Surfing



## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

Help :banghead:

*-*Summer*-*


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Bunch of ways to do it. I try to stop it from ever happening by management and if I can catch him doing it for the first time I nail him hard for it to try to prevent it from happening again. 

Once you have one that has already rewarded himself for it and its reinforced then it is a bit more tricky. You can sort of imprint the idea in his head that you don't want it by baiting the counter waiting for him to try to grab the bait and then blocking or correcting. A few reps of this and I would basically try to trick him and invite him up there. If he takes the bait he gets nailed, if he doesn't he gets rewarded for not being stupid.

If I was going to correct it I would correct hard, but it depends on the dog too. You want one where the dog is thinking "ouch" but not one that totally causes the dog to shut down completely. 

You need to teach him he can't pull this off just because you aren't around to stop him too. So this will require spying. You more or less set up a sting and spy on him when he doesn't know you are there. If you've done scenting or anything like that with the dog this will be quite a bit harder so if you can set up a webcam or something like that go for it. 

An e collar blast for this kind of thing is useful too. You'd take all necessary precautions to prevent collar or receiver awareness on the dog. Depending on what his temperament was determines just how high ya go on the power dial, but soon as his front feet touch the counter...ZAP. Quick high intensity pop. The odds of superstition go way down as long as that is not his first time in the kitchen. It could happen, but not likely.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

This was a joke, right.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

For behavior eradication for something like that you don't nag correct.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

Did you ask how old the puppy is before telling her to use an e-collar?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I know how old her dog is from post history. I also know she doesn't have an e-collar and probably wouldn't use one. It isn't necessary anyway. Handtronics works just fine.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

So e-collar on a 14 week d is acceptable to you? Again hilarious. And WRONG. At that age the puppy won't fully comprehend what is being corrected and could associate it with another behavior.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You didn't read the first half of the post did you? E collar is not the first thing you'd whip out I just said it is one of those cases where it was useful later on. You teach the behavior is unwanted first.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

Or just teach it fear of you.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

I just gave mine a verbal correction "eh, eh, eh, cut it out" any time she approached the counter, and if she reared up on the counter, I just knocked her off balance with my hip and told her to sit. Many weeks of pushing food really far back, natural response occurred, never getting the food, always getting knocked off or told no, she eventually quit entirely. It just took a LOT of watching and managing


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

But it's too young to associate anything with anything!


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## WGSD Nikko (Jul 24, 2013)

My trainer told us to tie stuff to the items they are trying to rip down with them (they just went up there to grab things and then jumped back down). Attach soda cans with marbles or nuts or something inside so when they jump down with it, it makes a lot of noise! I personally didn't have the issue, it was someone else in my training course who asked about it 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

If you go the nag route that's exactly what happens. Takes forever for them to learn it. Stuff like that I generally ouch correct to the temperament of the pup.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

Ok. You're right we should just "nail them hard" every time they do something we don't like, starting at a young age. I'm sure that will be best since you said so.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

Nag method is also called patience.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

First of all I "nail them" for very few things. This just happens to be one of them. The behavior is taught to be bad first then the pressure is turned on unless it is the first incidence of the behavior caught for the first time then it is just stopped then and there. I wouldn't even allow a puppy this age to get anywhere near a counter they could potentially get something off of. They should be heavily managed so that this never becomes a problem until they are older. A 15 weeker should be tethered under 100% observation or in a crate.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

I mean, yes it took awhile for my puppy to understand that she shouldn't go on the counter, but she's a year old now and wouldn't dare. All the repetitions of when she was a pup "get off, sit", yesterday I had raw chicken right on the edge and she sat next to the counter and stared at me instead of just swiping it. She's never touched something since she was a baby. 

I'm sure you can get similar results with the e collar and if I had a problem now, yeah, I'd use hers to correct it but only because she knows what behavior is supposed to happen - 4 on the floor, but I think it's unnecessary when they are babies, at that stage I focused on teaching what TO do (sit) vs what not to do

I don't think you are wrong for correcting it though. Even a stim of just vibration would probably be enough to get a pup to quit, I just think that if OP is opposed to that method, definitely can get success with another one too and I don't want this thread turning into people bashing Baillif


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Can totally understand why you did it and there is nothing wrong with that. I sport train so at that age I'm using food and training time for sport related behaviors. I generally refrain from any pressure on the pups or negative reinforcement if it can be avoided till 5-7 months depending on the dog. Everything is done motivationaly up to that point. I teach them pedal to the metal before I ever try to put control on them in lots of areas.

This means I don't want to be teaching crap like don't dig in the trash, don't jump on counters, don't tackle the cat, don't chew on the furniture, don't dig a hole in the floor. That is what crates and leashes are for. You want to stop them from ever finding value in that kind of thing. If it is there though and it needs to be stopped, it really depends on what the behavior is as to how I approach it. If it could effect a potential sport behavior I'm going to generally find a positive way to do it. If it is something like jumping on a counter to grab food and it doesn't effect the work it gets stopped quick. Younger the better because you don't have to be as harsh as you would a full grown full of spunk dog. The longer you allow a dog to continue a behavior the more stress you produce trying to stop it.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

No one is bashing Baillif. Just one person who has nothing insightful to add and has their panties in a bunch. 

Baillif gave a bunch of suggestions and not just one. I agree that once the dog has countered surfed and found something to eat then it's harder to get rid of the behavior. Since this was posted in the training section instead of the regular puppy training section I'd assume it's an adult. If not then the op posted in the wrong place.

You can leave a piece of steak at the edge of the table and your dog looking at you doesn't mean anything. Leave that same steak and then leave the house and come back to see what happens. Correcting with the prong is like slapping a kid on the hand. An ecollar is like a kid touching a hot stove. Touch it once or twice and not only will the kid learn to stay away from it but would be cautious of approaching it. Also no one made the kid touch the stove. It was his choice and his choice lead to him getting burned. When your dog chooses to jump up on the counter, it gets a shock. After 1 or 2 shocks it'll choose to just not touch the counter. Even if you leave steak out the dog will think twice and be very cautious. I leave all kinds of food (even his food and treats) at eye level for my dog and he doesn't touch it even when no one is home. I'd rather the dog make its own choice instead of waiting to do it but is afraid of being yelled at or punished.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

First of all, I thought this was the correct place to put my post. Next time I will place it in puppy behavior - sorry for that. Yes, Bailiff does know how old my dog/puppy is. I know they are puppies for a long time but most of the people posting in puppy behavior aren't posting about counter surfing because their puppies are tiny. Now that my pup is big enough to jump up and grab stuff off the counter, I thought it'd be appropriate to ask here.
I have been taking a lot of Bailiff's advice lately and it has all worked thus far but I wanted it public rather than PM to see what other people are doing.
While I agree that optimally it would be best to either have him tethered to me or in a crate, it does not work well for me here with another dog and three small children running around. I feel bad leaving him in the crate all the time. He is in there when I can't watch him 100% but I'm always in the same room as him. Our kitchen and livingroom are connected with no wall. While I was making dinner last night, Yogi was running around the island and suddenly stopped and sidled up to me, proceeded to jump placing his paws on the counter. I gave him a firm no, placed him into a down and proceeded to ignore him. He did it again and so I did the same thing but then placed him in his crate while I resumed dinner. This morning while making breakfast he jumped up again. I grabbed his scruff, said no firmly and made eye contact with him. He immediately sat. I told him "Yogi look at me" and as soon as eye contact was made I told him "OFF!" (that is what I have been using for when he jumps on people, he knows it well). I'm not sure I am doing this right. He's not scared of me or anything after scruffing him. That is the second time I've done that. The first time was because he bit the back of my leg, leaving a four inch gash...which drew a lot of blood. 
I will take the back"nag" approach for now but once he turns six months I may try the stim collar if he is still testing the counter rule. Does that sound fair? I think it does but I don't know. I feel like I'm way over my head today.  He is really trying my patience the last few days. I'm doing my best here. Be patient with me please. 

*-*Summer*-*


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

Totally agree with the nag approach until 6 months then go to e collar when he is fully aware of what he is doing.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

newtexas said:


> Totally agree with the nag approach until 6 months then go to e collar when he is fully aware of what he is doing.


Thanks for your input and advice.

*-*Summer*-*


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You sound like you're already adding pressure to the pup in places and really you are going to want to a certain extent, where it needs to happen. Usually I start this with leash pressure training for a sport dog, but for a pet I'd do it with other stuff. If you go too long without a little pressure on the dog the feisty ones have a tendency to try to fight you when you finally start. You probably already saw the tendency even at that young age where you say no and give em a little tap and they come back at you with teeth and get all vocal. 

Don't scruff. My personal go to with a pup that age is a thumb to the space between the ribs. If you have ever been poked there you know it is sensitive but doesn't really hurt. It doesn't necessarily have to hurt to get the desired effect. If you grab a feisty one by the scruff (unless you do it super hard) they often go to play fight mode and you might as well have brought out a toy. It works for the jumping on people thing too, although you'll find strangers won't want to do this to your dog so you have to monitor interactions closely to do it for them.

I'm telling you though. Management. Use that crate.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i too wouldnt use any type of correction tool on a pup younger than 6 months but its not really about nagging or yelling at your pup to listen. that is just a battle of wills and who can outlast who. what you need to do with a pup is teach it what will get it a reward. before the pup was self rewarding itself because when it counter surfed, it found food. when your pup jumps up you need to give him a stern no, pop its collar and drag him down or push him off or whatever. once he is down you need to give him a command that he knows well (sit or down). once he sits you should reward him with whatever you're cooking or if you dont want him to eat human food then have a bag of his treats with you. the dog will learn that jumping up gets him nothing but mommy's angry voice. if he sits then he actually gets a reward. you can then add duration in his sit before you reward. reward the dog for listening instead of yelling at him for not listening. eventually your dog will learn if i sit maybe i get a piece but if i jump up i get yelled at and i get nothing.


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## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

Thanks Boomer and Bailiff! 

*-*Summer*-*


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## TS0104 (Dec 17, 2013)

*Something else to try*

Hi Summer,

I have the same problem with my dog, 7 months and big enough to get stuff on the counter, and has been successful which makes it worse. That said, after months of the "nag method" described here, it is getting better, slowly. Which leads me to believe it could get better quicker if I was more consistent about it. We have had some success with "go to your rug" (a rug in the kitchen counter" when I am cooking or eating.

Anyway, my dog class instructor said to line the edges of the counter with duct tape; the dog won't like the feel. While I've only tried it once which was worth nothing (I've got to work on my consistency!!) but this makes sense to me as a deterrent for the dog to even touch the counter with her paws in the first place. Good luck!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

SummerGSDLover said:


> I grabbed his scruff, said no firmly and made eye contact with him. He immediately sat. I told him "Yogi look at me" and as soon as eye contact was made I told him "OFF!"


Summer, just reading that had me quite confused  so I can imagine that your puppy is equally confused and maybe that's why this is still happening. If you say "off" at the precise moment that he's 'offing', like exactly when you're grabbing him by the scruff, then he'll learn that word so much quicker. If you wait until he's making eye contact - then he's not learning what it means since he has no idea that you're talking abut what you wanted him to do way back a few moments ago. Make sense? 

I agree with the rug idea: don't give him a choice of what he could do - show him what you want him to do. I trained my pup to go into his crate whenever I opened the fridge. I gave him some cheese every time and voila, perfect. He's not underfoot or mooching at the counter. Yay!

Teaching "leave it" is wonderful too, so when he does wander over to the counter then you can direct him away from it with that command. Good luck!


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## Sri (Apr 25, 2013)

Some one please tell me if I am doing this wrong. 

When I am cooking or we are eating the dog is usually nearby in the settle position. I used to treat him once in a while.. Now during the whole mealtime he might get a couple of small treats. More often than not, he has fallen asleep. I'm actually liking this because it is nice to have him around food and people eating and be calm.

For counter surfing, I am redirecting him, like asking him to come away from the counter or dining table and 'down', he doesn't get anything right away but might get something if he stays there for a bit. He jumps up a lot less, its not completely gone though.


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## Sitz&Platz (Oct 20, 2012)

I've never had a dog counter surf for 2 reasons. 1. There is no food on the counter unless I'm cooking. 2. One of the first commands I teach is "move", which means you're in my space. I don't want to hurt my dogs when I'm cooking and spill something hot on them, so they learn early on not to be in my way when I'm busy in the kitchen. It has worked well for me so far, and none of my dogs find counters appealing.


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