# Extremely Itchy Skin



## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

Our 7mo pup Keagan has extremely itchy skin and we can't figure out why! His coat is beautiful, thick, soft and shiny but has visible flakes of skin (dander? dandruff?) and he seems to scratch various places all over his body regularly. We've started spraying his coat with a product from Burt's Bees called "Itch Soothing Spray" that seems to help some. He is bathed once every 5-7 weeks or so, as to not wash away the natural oils on his coat, and is bathed with an oatmeal-based wash.

We feed his Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy which contains the following ingredients (top 10): Lamb, lamb meal, ground white rice, cracked pearled barley, peas, garbanzo beans, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, fish meal, tomato pomace

The only thing that concerns me, as far as allergies, are the Chicken Fat and farther down at #12 Potato Protein and #13 Potatoes. But being as they are so far down on the list I was doubtful there was a large enough quantity of those products to cause an allergic reaction to them.

I have no clue what else could be causing him these issues... any ideas on how to locate the culprit. Any chance the Lamb is the issue?


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## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

ADDITIONAL INFO: Its not fleas, he gets monthly medication. He was recently bathed and had no signs, and brushed every three days or so (shedding) without any signs.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Before you delve into the food allergy cycle of trying to find the right food... is the itching severe in just the last couple of weeks? I know now that my female's itching issue is shedding cycle (fall & early winter) and the dry winter air in the house. 

I ordered the apple cider vinegar (with "the mother") in it and diluted it with 1/2 water to spray her itchy spots. Works well and a 5.00 bottle will probably last 2 years. 

Also, bathing more often then every twelve weeks or so is stripping their natural oils no matter what you use - even warm water will take oils and send them right down the drain. Dogs can't rapidly replace the oil barrier they need it against their skin and (thru proper brushing distributed to their fur coat) every 5-7 weeks does not allow for this. They just don't normally put out that much oil thru their skin.

You might think it's gross to only bathe 2 or 3 times per year. But, most of the posts here with skin problems (that are not food/allergy related) are from way too frequent bathing. 

Just IMO


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## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> Before you delve into the food allergy cycle of trying to find the right food... is the itching severe in just the last couple of weeks? I know now that my female's itching issue is shedding cycle (fall & early winter) and the dry winter air in the house.
> 
> I ordered the apple cider vinegar (with "the mother") in it and diluted it with 1/2 water to spray her itchy spots. Works well and a 5.00 bottle will probably last 2 years.
> 
> ...


It has DEFINITELY gotten worse in the last few weeks. Trying hard to find a way to get this shedding done asap as he is miserable with the quick onset of heat the last week or two in the South.

I was unaware that even 5-7 weeks was too often... will definitely keep that in mind.

Anyone know of a product that can 're-create' the natural oils to help replenish them?


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

There's differences of opinion on this site about many things, including this. 5-7 weeks is not too often. What you're doing seems fine. Use a conditioner if you frequently bathe your dogs. Don't add more products into the mix, i.e. re-creating oils. 

Probably best to ask your vet about the bathing so you get an answer you feel confident in relying upon.

Did you notice the itching starting in one area or remaining localized all this time? In other words, can you be more detailed?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

viking said:


> There's differences of opinion on this site about many things, including this. 5-7 weeks is not too often. What you're doing seems fine. Use a conditioner if you frequently bathe your dogs. Don't add more products into the mix, i.e. re-creating oils.
> 
> Probably best to ask your vet about the bathing so you get an answer you feel confident in relying upon.
> 
> Did you notice the itching starting in one area or remaining localized all this time? In other words, can you be more detailed?


Yea, it's all fine.... can you be more detailed?


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> Yea, it's all fine.... can you be more detailed?


Huh?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

viking said:


> 5-7 weeks is not too often. What you're doing seems fine. Use a conditioner if you frequently bathe your dogs. In other words, can you be more detailed?


You post right on top of mine where I said 5-7 weeks is too often. Then you say 5-7 weeks is not too often. and "What you're doing seems fine." Then you ask for more detail....

You are disagreeing with my post, but then ask for more detail.... 

I would like to know why?


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> You post right on top of mine where I said 5-7 weeks is too often. Then you say 5-7 weeks is not too often. and "What you're doing seems fine." Then you ask for more detail....
> 
> You are disagreeing with my post, but then ask for more detail....
> 
> I would like to know why?


The entirety of my comment was directed at the OP, not at you. That is evident to anyone who reads this. I believe its clear to anyone that I was asking the OP for details, not you. I was merely referencing your comment because of context but that is all.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

viking said:


> The entirety of my comment was directed at the OP, not at you. That is evident to anyone who reads this. I believe its clear to anyone that I was asking the OP for details, not you. I was merely referencing your comment because of context but that is all.


I was merely referencing your comment because of context too.


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## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

viking said:


> There's differences of opinion on this site about many things, including this. 5-7 weeks is not too often. What you're doing seems fine. Use a conditioner if you frequently bathe your dogs. Don't add more products into the mix, i.e. re-creating oils.
> 
> Probably best to ask your vet about the bathing so you get an answer you feel confident in relying upon.
> 
> Did you notice the itching starting in one area or remaining localized all this time? In other words, can you be more detailed?


It did not start in one area, it appears to be an 'entire body' issue. Anywhere he can reach, he itches. 

I have looked, as best as possible, in the areas he itches most frequently (ridge of back, abdomen, hind quarters) and nothing appears red, swollen, or inflamed. Just flaky and dry.


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

rcgardner-
From what you write, it sounds like dry skin. Use a conditioner when bathing and see if that helps first.

I'm not counting out a food allergy from what you've already written but see if a conditioner makes a difference first. There's other real possibilities too, of course, but this is a good place to start with the process of elimination.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I would get more EFAs into the diet -- fish oil. You can buy human grade fish oil capsules and add one per day, or even one per meal. Maybe add some coconut oil too (organic, unrefined, hexane free--the hard white stuff), for the medium-chain fatty acids. They take a good month to help, but if it's dryness, you need to address the quality of the fat in the diet. 

As for bathing, there may be a difference of opinion on the forum, but how about looking at what the science says?

There's a very good article in the Feb 2016 Whole Dog Journal about itchy skin in dogs: "The bottom line is that frequent bathing . . . may be one of the most important therapeutic approaches for atopic dogs." (Linda P. Case, MS, "Helping Itchy Dogs: Current evidence about what has been proven to work (and what doesn't)," Whole Dog Journal (Feb. 2016), pp. 21-22).

The WDJ article reviews the treatment guidelines published by the American College of Veterinary Dermatology (ACVD) and the International Committee on Allergic Diseases of Animals (ICADA). They promulgated evidence-based treatment guidelines for canine atopic dermatitis in 2010, and issued a revised edition more recently. These guidelines recommend *frequent bathing *with a non-irritating shampoo to physically remove allergens from the body and cleanse the skin, and reduce bacterial colonization. One study they relied on for their findings showed significant benefits of using a lipid-containing antiseptic shampoo. 

This likely helps explain why so many have had excellent results with products like chlorhexidene shampoos and keto-chlorhex shampoos (these products are designed for frequent use -- weekly use is commonly recommended by vets I know for dogs with active itchy flare ups, and I've known a dog who had to be bathed with that stuff _twice _a week for his skin to recover from staph colonization...the coat and skin did NOT dry out). 

The category of medicated shampoos I'm talking about do not foam or dry out the coat like regular shampoo--it's a different kind of product. There's no lather. Your vet will know this product category, so you can ask them about it and get an opinion easily. (Most vets sell these shampoos -- but you can get them for half the cost on Amazon without a prescription).

I think you need to figure out if it's just dryness (due to lack of good fats in the diet, or weather), or has an allergic component. It changes the approach (though there's no harm in adding good fats, even if there may be an environmental allergy, I suppose).


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I also just saw that you are in the South. I'd try chlorhex shampoo -- it's a $10 thing that may help right away (just follow label instructions, and keep it away from the head so none gets in the eyes).

I'm in the South too, and my vet told me last week that more than half their appointments lately are for hot spots and itchy skin unrelated to fleas. What he's seeing is nearly all environmental, and a lot of it has a staph component. It's the time of year (very warm, wet Feb.). They aren't sure what's causing it, but it's affecting lots of dogs, even inside dogs.


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

What Magwart said . . . but I'll recommend krill oil instead of fish oil. Krill is higher in the good fatty acids than fish, has no odor and has no reports of stomach upset (in humans or dogs) that fish oil occasionally causes.

I give my boy krill oil capsules everyday, immediately after he's eaten while his esophagus is still slick. It has helped reduce shedding by a lot(!) as well as the other benefits. I give him the human grade Mega Red that I buy at Costco. Check with your vet on how many mg, given your dog's weight.


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## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

Magwart said:


> I would get more EFAs into the diet -- fish oil. You can buy human grade fish oil capsules and add one per day, or even one per meal. Maybe add some coconut oil too (organic, unrefined, hexane free--the hard white stuff), for the medium-chain fatty acids. They take a good month to help, but if it's dryness, you need to address the quality of the fat in the diet.
> 
> 
> This likely helps explain why so many have had excellent results with products like chlorhexidene shampoos and keto-chlorhex shampoos (these products are designed for frequent use -- weekly use is commonly recommended by vets I know for dogs with active itchy flare ups, and I've known a dog who had to be bathed with that stuff _twice _a week for his skin to recover from staph colonization...the coat and skin did NOT dry out).....
> ...





Magwart said:


> I also just saw that you are in the South. I'd try chlorhex shampoo -- it's a $10 thing that may help right away (just follow label instructions, and keep it away from the head so none gets in the eyes).
> 
> I'm in the South too, and my vet told me last week that more than half their appointments lately are for hot spots and itchy skin unrelated to fleas. What he's seeing is nearly all environmental, and a lot of it has a staph component. It's the time of year (very warm, wet Feb.). They aren't sure what's causing it, but it's affecting lots of dogs, even inside dogs.





viking said:


> What Magwart said . . . but I'll recommend krill oil instead of fish oil. Krill is higher in the good fatty acids than fish, has no odor and has no reports of stomach upset (in humans or dogs) that fish oil occasionally causes.
> 
> I give my boy krill oil capsules everyday, immediately after he's eaten while his esophagus is still slick. It has helped reduce shedding by a lot(!) as well as the other benefits. I give him the human grade Mega Red that I buy at Costco. Check with your vet on how many mg, given your dog's weight.



You guys are AWESOME! thanks so much for all the advice!

Interesting that you mention that Magwarts... we have a vet appt for unrelated topics (general check-up, Nasal bordetella booster, etc) but was going to talk to them about this issue too (using you guys as a primer for the vet lol). wonder if they are seeing the same thing?

will definitely ask about Fish Oils... wouldn't hurt especially if I can find one formulated for k9s or GSDs specifically that include some kind of hip/joint supplement too.


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## viking (May 2, 2014)

Keep us updated, especially if it resolves. Everyone here will benefit from what you've experienced, if you post it.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Have started using air conditioning? We had our air conditioning units professionally sanitized before summer to kill and wash out mold, mildew and other nasties (I'm in Brisbane, Australia which is hot and humid). Nitro had no problems with his skin itching this summer (December to February). Last summer he was on Neocort cream for his itchy skin. Thought I'd share, may help, ... or not.


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## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

viking said:


> Keep us updated, especially if it resolves. Everyone here will benefit from what you've experienced, if you post it.


I will definitely let you guys know whats going on when we get it figured out! 



Dunkirk said:


> Have started using air conditioning? We had our air conditioning units professionally sanitized before summer to kill and wash out mold, mildew and other nasties (I'm in Brisbane, Australia which is hot and humid). Nitro had no problems with his skin itching this summer (December to February). Last summer he was on Neocort cream for his itchy skin. Thought I'd share, may help, ... or not.



Air condition has been running on and off the last week or so.

BUT our unit is a Central Heat/Air unit that has air moving through it year round so that shouldn't be the issue at all.


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## joneser (Jun 9, 2014)

Down here in Florida the pollen is getting worse, Jericho's itching is flaring up. Started with blowing his coat 2 weeks ago (not much after our first Florida "winter") and now he has a rash in his groin area, just one side, not spreading. Chlorhex shampoo is on order!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

This is what I would recommend 

https://www.vetionx.com/defendex.php?gclid=CJTRy_vSs8sCFQoNaQodKFkAuA


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## CanineKarma (Jan 5, 2016)

rcgardner said:


> ADDITIONAL INFO: Its not fleas, he gets monthly medication. He was recently bathed and had no signs, and brushed every three days or so (shedding) without any signs.


What are you using for flea medication as plenty of dogs have issues with flea/tick repellent products.


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## Annabellam (Nov 2, 2015)

The last time i had a problem with Sammy's skin, he also seemed to be itchy but his coat was also rather dry. Vet recommended pet vitamins and supplements and i must say they worked.You could also give it a try. I know the fish oils are also great for smoothing the coat.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

rcgardner said:


> Our 7mo pup Keagan has extremely itchy skin and we can't figure out why! His coat is beautiful, thick, soft and shiny but has visible flakes of skin (dander? dandruff?) and he seems to scratch various places all over his body regularly. We've started spraying his coat with a product from Burt's Bees called "Itch Soothing Spray" that seems to help some. He is bathed once every 5-7 weeks or so, as to not wash away the natural oils on his coat, and is bathed with an oatmeal-based wash.
> 
> We feed his Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy which contains the following ingredients (top 10): Lamb, lamb meal, ground white rice, cracked pearled barley, peas, garbanzo beans, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), egg product, fish meal, tomato pomace
> 
> ...



We've used fish oil geltabs to minimize shedding,we also have never bathed any of our GSDs.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this may be your problem "
Originally Posted by *rcgardner*  
_ADDITIONAL INFO: Its not fleas, he gets monthly medication. _


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## rcgardner (Aug 12, 2015)

CanineKarma said:


> What are you using for flea medication as plenty of dogs have issues with flea/tick repellent products.



Trifexis pill is what we use.


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## CanineKarma (Jan 5, 2016)

From the Trifexis site.

What side effects might occur with Trifexis?
As with all medicines, sometimes side effects may occur. In some cases, dogs vomited after receiving Trifexis. If vomiting occurs within an hour of administration, redose with another full dose. During field studies, no severe or prolonged vomiting occurred. Additional adverse reactions observed in the clinical studies were itching, decreased activity, diarrhea, inflammation of the skin, redness of the skin, decreased appetite and redness of the ear. All reactions were regarded as mild.


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## CanineKarma (Jan 5, 2016)

Talk to your vet, you may want to take the dog off of that for a couple of months and see if there is any improvement.

Maybe try one of the topical flea/tick products.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Bing.
Go for the cause not the symptoms.

give your dog's body a rest from the flea preventive.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

A spoonful of coconut oil, 3000 mg of fish oil, 400 iu of Vit. E dramatically helped my dog's itching. It's winter. The air is very dry. Try adding that to see if treating from the inside helps his skin. 

IMO, 5-7 weeks is not to many baths. If you are concerned about that drying out his skin, talk to your local groomer and find out what shampoo they use. I get an Emu Oil shampoo from my local lady.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

CanineKarma said:


> From the Trifexis site.
> 
> What side effects might occur with Trifexis?
> As with all medicines, sometimes side effects may occur. In some cases, dogs vomited after receiving Trifexis. If vomiting occurs within an hour of administration, redose with another full dose. During field studies, no severe or prolonged vomiting occurred. Additional adverse reactions observed in the clinical studies were itching, decreased activity, diarrhea, inflammation of the skin, redness of the skin, decreased appetite and redness of the ear. All reactions were regarded as mild.


*Trifexis???* Most likely if your dog is only itchy then your lucky ... have a look here:

https://www.facebook.com/TrifexisKillsDogs/

Don't know myself but by and large for me I like to KISS, I'd just as soon not have lawyers involved in anything my pets consume.

And yes despite what many of us have believed for years?? More frequent baths with "leave on residual solutions" actually works. For the record that is a fancy term for medicated/herbal doggy shampoos!


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## Tracy Terink (Jan 4, 2016)

My baby had the exact same. To this day she has still a slight bit of flakiness on her just about the tail. 
What I can suggest is coconut oil that really helped. She doesn't scratch as much. It definitely improved that as all she use to do all day was scratch. 
The extreme heat also plays a role for use as I live in South Africa and been experiencing a heat wave the past few months. The aircon doesn't help can see the impact of that.
I also swapped to acana large breed puppy food and that made a difference too. I hope this helps and ur baby stops with that annoying itching


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