# Teaching heel without jumping



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Hi everyone!

Rafi is a super dog to train with. I'm not planning on doing anything in particular except have fun together but I'd like to teach that nice heel where he is looking up at you with his head wrapped around your leg. Like Chase here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=592866

I know people put treats/toys in their mouth and hands and under their arms but the problem I am having is that Rafi leaps for things! And even though he has hd he can jump as high as my head! I don't acknowledge this behavior except for saying, "Eh, eh" which he understands and don't let him have the treat or toy until he has 4 on the sidewalk but so far he's still doing it. He LOVES to work and thinks everything is a big game. 

Any suggestions on how to deal with this? Oh, you should know that I don't and won't use a prong on him (he's a very soft dog) and right now he is just wearing a flat collar because he chewed through his harness (after someone stupidly left it in the back of the truck with him) and it's being repaired.


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## pinkanml (Sep 3, 2007)

Maybe a no-jump harness? Sounds like you're already doing what I'd have suggested, the Ah-ah and waiting for him to settle.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=640&N=2001+113845


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Try walking faster. If he's moving fast enough he can't jump.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I was going to say walk fast, but Lauri beat me to it! You don't want to extinguinsh that kind of enthousiasm! Just ignoring it, or an eh, eh! is fine. Keep at it, he'll calm down (eventually, in a year or two . . .







If you walk very fast, all his energy will be in keeping up with you, not jumping.

I'm sure you already do this, but start with only a few paces of heeling before rewarding. Just two or three good, calm paces without a jump, reward, break, play.

Then when he consistently gives you that much, increase your healing paces, five paces, ten, twenty, then you're off!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I would go back as if he were a pup, making him to follow the food at the same level of his nose until the behaviour is consistent without any jumps, maybe even using another command. I would also work the looking at your face as a different exercise. Make this one strong enough for the dog to look at you even if you have the reward in your hands, in you lap, in the floor, etc. and start using a release word that means "now you can get your toy"

Then you can join both exercise walking with the dog looking at you at the eyes, but not looking for the toy or treat. Now you release with the said release word and it doesn't matter if the reward come out of your pocket, he already knows that it come from looking at YOU and not at the toy "in your direction" 

In the way you are teaching it now you'll have to be always trying to cheat the dog later, to make him believe the toy is in your armpit or under your chin when it's not and even without the jumping it won't be consistent.

This is link that was posted shortly in another thread. You'll find it very interesting. It's not exactly like I do, as I try to make them to depend less in the visual clue of the food from the beginning, but it'll give you a good idea.

http://www.grammozis.de/Freeheeling.htm


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Thanks for all of the suggestions. He does know "Look" and "Watch" and I don't have the treat in a consistent place. He just wants instant gratification and who can blame him!









He is so eager to learn and learns so quickly that it just blows me away. I am operating under the philosophy that if he doesn't do something the way I want or expect it then it is because he doesn't understand what I want or expect. I keep the intense training down to short sessions while we do our on leash walks. He is a such a joy to work and play with and I try very hard not to dampen his enthusiasm even when he is bouncing up in my face (which I hate because I was bit in the face by a dog when I was a child!). He's only been here with me for a little over 6 weeks and he already knows at least thirty or forty words/commands! He keeps me on my toes! 

I am off to walk fast and see how that works!


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

What I would recommend is to first teach him a stationary attention in heel position. By this I mean have him sit (wherever he is - in front of you is fine), tell him stay, move into heel position while he stays, use a treat or toy to get him to look up at you, and then praise and reward him in that position. If he jumps up, you simply turn away, tell him sit/stay again, and do it over. When he figures out that the only way to get the treat is to keep his butt on the ground, he'll do it.

You need to phase out the visible treat very quickly, so after a few times with the lure you want to put the treats into a pocket and maybe just use your right hand to point up to your left shoulder, and then phase that cue out too. If you don't mind putting treats into your mouth, you can do that - and then for the reward you very slowly reach up to your mouth to take out a treat (make it extremely obvious to the dog where the treat is!). I don't recommend spitting treats to a dog that likes to leap up.

Once he's doing a reliable steady stationary attention in heel position, you do ONE step. Have him sit, move into heel position, get his attention, then give him your heel command and step forward with your left foot. When he stands to move forward with you (and maintains attention) you immediately mark that behavior with a "YES!!!" and bring the treat down to his nose (so he doesn't leap up for it). Your timing is important. Once you say "YES!!" you HAVE to give him the treat, so it's important for you to get that treat down to him quickly so he doesn't leap up. If he does leap, he still gets the treat although I would either give it to him once his feet are back on the ground or drop the treat on the ground. But the best scenario is to get the treat to him before he leaps up.

When he figures out that the behavior is "look up, stay in heel position, don't leap" for that one step, you add a second step. Get into heel position, give your command and step forward with left foot and then right foot. If he maintains attention and doesn't leap up, he gets the "YES!!" and the treat. And then you build from there.

Your rewards have to be given in a way that avoids reinforcing the leaping behavior and I know that can be tough sometimes. Always bring your hand down low to give the treat, so that leaping is not compatible with getting the treat. With some dogs it works better to toss the treat away so they run for it, or even behind so they turn and go after it (which means they aren't leaping up). But most dogs that I've seen that continue to leap do so because they are somehow rewarded for it, so it's really important to make sure that you're not doing that.

I do this training in an area where I can have my dog off-leash, because that makes me really pay attention to my body language and how I move, praise, and reward. To me, heeling is a behavior that doesn't involve leash and collar and so I train that way from the beginning. It's really effective and fun!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## mikaK9 (Oct 8, 2007)

Until he settles just a little, I'd stay away from the toy and stick to food treats. And just keep them so that he can't get to them. I'd forget about keeping them in my mouth if he's jumping up. During part of the learning stage for heeling like that, I held the food treat in a closed fist in my hand. I basically held my fist right at hip level, which provided good reason for the dog not to move his head (or body) too far from there. Of all the problems you can have though, over-enthusiatic is a keeper


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Thanks, Melanie! I remember now that I learned the technique you describe at Patricia McConnell's school many years ago. 

He has figured out he won't get anything for jumping but this guy has springs in his feet and when he's happy and excited, up he goes! 

He knows that for his off leash recall he has to come to a sit in front of me to get his reward so this shouldn't be too hard to transfer. 

Thanks again!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: IliamnasQuestI do this training in an area where I can have my dog off-leash, because that makes me really pay attention to my body language and how I move, praise, and reward. To me, heeling is a behavior that doesn't involve leash and collar and so I train that way from the beginning. It's really effective and fun!


As I'm working an easily distracted 3 months old pup I use a flat collar with a long leash I just let hang to the floor. If my drivey girl wants to run after a flying plastic bag I just step over the leash, but as Melanie I don't use it in the training either.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Is this something you want to do on your own?

Sheila Booth's book- "Schutzhund Obedience Training in Drive" might be a worth while read.. You could modify some of the steps for you and your dog.. Or Ivan Balabanov's- "Obedience w/o Conflict" dvd's. That way you have a visual.. Not just going off words.. Although Sheila Booth's book has pictures throughout..

My dogs are taught that heel is a position first.. Be at my left side, there right shoulder in-line with my left pant seam, looking up at my face/into my eyes.. Once they understand that, then I'll move forward a few steps and reward when correct and only when correct.. Gradually extending my steps over time.. It's a slow, patient process.. 

I use food in the beginning for rewarding.. As to keep their drive level lower so they can think.. 

Happy training!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Some different pics of Chase heeling..


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Ruth,

You have a "good" problem there! If he's jumping up he's excited to be working with you and wants his reward! I would try two things...

1. Pay early and often for a bit the very second he gets into position after one or two steps so he understands four paws on the ground next to you is what you want.

2. Then, whenever he leaves the ground make a 90 degree right turn so he gets way our of position. Once he gets back into position for a step pay him just like #1. He will quickly understand he has to focus on you and not jump in order to stay in position


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Thanks again, everyone. We worked a bit on and off leash today and he's already doing better. I will say that I already walk really fast (most people say it's more like a jog) and he was still jumping when we were walking fast! He's a bouncy boy!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Plus food-for him-is probably a very big deal considering how thin he was! 

I didn't use food to train Ava for a long time-unless she was guaranteed to get it-because her association with it was too serious.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

G-Burg, you gotta write a book! You have a super way of 'splainin'.







And, Chase looks devastatingly handsome!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

I don't know about all that... but thanks for your vote of confidence! I'll leave the book up to the experts...









Heck ZeusGSD can explain stuff much better than I!

But I do want to make a comment on the bouncing.. I was told to walk slower, slow the exercise down.. Make sure your body language/emotions are not exciting (your energy) or amping the dog up more than necessary...

Chase would bounce some in the beginning.. He's high drive and I really had to make sure I had a calmness about me..


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

G-burg - I'll take that as a huge compliment from someone that has achieved much more than I so far. Thank you. And yes, usually fast movement in heeling makes more drive and excitement.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

I will use a quick correction as a reminder to my girl that she cannot jump and take bites out of me while focusing on the toy.







It does not bother her drive at all and does seem to be helpful.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: chrubyI will use a quick correction as a reminder to my girl that she cannot jump and take bites out of me while focusing on the toy.


Now the real question...

Who that trains heeling this way has a shirt in their closet left without holes in the left shoulder/chest area??!! I have quite a collection of "holy" shirts!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSD
> 
> Who that trains heeling this way has a shirt in their closet left without holes in the left shoulder/chest area??!! I have quite a collection of "holy" shirts!


Which is not the same than Holy Sh*t!....


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: LicanAntai
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ZeusGSD
> ...












Though the later has often been said while the dog is in the process of creating the former.... especially when the handler is female....


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ZeusGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: chrubyI will use a quick correction as a reminder to my girl that she cannot jump and take bites out of me while focusing on the toy.
> ...


LOL..took her to training last night and she nipped me twice and sure enough I have a silver dollar sized bruise under my arm.....


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> Quote:Though the later has often been said while the dog is in the process of creating the former.... especially when the handler is female....


Oh boy how true is that... 

I can say I have my fair share of holey clothes.. More than I care to admit!


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## Rafi's Dad (Jan 25, 2008)

I cannot believe there is another 1 year old wild child named Rafi! I was cruising the forum just to get soothed from another day of dealing with a 90 lb. toddler with Michael Jordans's atheltic skills and Einstein's brain and I found your thread. I won't add anything except that YOU ARE REALLY NOT ALONE!
I am retired and he's up from 3-5 AM daily and goes non stop until crash time around 8PM. I am training in schutzhund twice weekly, and doe things all day-altough here in suburban Detroit the ice and snow have put a damper on us. My Rafi is soft on the verbal command, and like iron on the leash. The more I react to his physical affronts, the stronger and harder he gets. He just turned one!
Since he's rown up he's caused me to break a rib, finger, and two weeks ago knocked me over and I twisted my knee.
I have learned a great deal from my training and the Leerburg DVD's Building drive and Focous, and Preparing your Dog for the Helper.


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## nitetrane98 (Feb 23, 2008)

Very interesting. Is there any benefit or reason for this type of heeling other than it looks incredibly cool? 

First off, I realize there is a difference in K-9 training. 

Back in the late 70's, kinda the dark ages for LE K-9 work, you got yourself a good strong GSD and you trained him yourself at a school with predictably varying results. Not many people knew anything about "drives". Most tried to use American GDSs that had long since had the working genes bred out. Agencies soon learned that it was far more cost effective to buy European bloodlines already trained and certified.
Anyway, that kind of heel would have been discouraged. We wanted ours to be scanning right and left. I'm also wondering, how do you know if your dog is not looking up at you if you are not looking down at him at all times. I'm far too clumsy to walk very far without looking where I'm going!!


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

As a breed evaluation tool, heeling in this manner demonstrates that a dog is willing to focus and please in the obedience portion of Schutzhund. 

In the protection portion, the heeling ideally should be slightly different with the dog keeping an eye on the helper. As far as knowing, it can be difficult especially in the beginning because as a new handler you're worried about the leash, the dog's position, your own body language, not running into things or falling on your face, etc. In time you get used to it and more importantly the dog just does it.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am interested in teaching this to Rafi because I take him everywhere with me and I wanted to have a quick command to get him by my side and focused.


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## jinxieab (Nov 6, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: G-burgMy dogs are taught that heel is a position first.. Be at my left side, there right shoulder in-line with my left pant seam, looking up at my face/into my eyes.. Once they understand that, then I'll move forward a few steps and reward when correct and only when correct.. Gradually extending my steps over time.. It's a slow, patient process..


This is how we did it too. Just a few steps at a time as she got the hang of it.

I also had a girl that jumped and as PP said...if I went faster - she jumped less. So we would setp off fast and then slow down.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

He can still jump when we're going fast! He is not jumping nearly as much as he was though. He knows exactly what I want from him. 

I think if one of you Schutzhund people had adopted Rafi you would be training him for that. He is really something else. Yesterday he captured a basketball and told it a thing or two!







Then after he had killed it he carried it around the park in his mouth. What a goof. I haven't had a dog like this in a long time, since my first gsd, Massie.


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## nitetrane98 (Feb 23, 2008)

I should have guessed it had something to do with impressing a judge. Do the judges think that this is a natural thing for a dog to do and have no clue that the dog has been trained to give the impression of being willing to focus and please. Is this the prescribed Schutzhund heel? What if a dog is focused and willing to please but hasn't been trained to heel like this? What if the dog just walks at the same speed you walk, faster or slower, turns when you turn and stops when you stop? Does this count against him? I knew a guy that trained his dog, a lovable mutt, to carry one paw and walk with a limp when he asked him if he was hurt. I guess this would demonstrate to a Schutzhund judge his willingness to continue on through pain or discomfort!!!
I'll have to plead ignorance to the intricacies of Sch. Perhaps they mean to imply that heeling like this is so difficult for a dog to do that it surely must have focus and willingness to please if it can be trained to do it. I'm reasonably sure that a smart dog can be trained to do just about anything. I'm fairly sure someone could train a dog to look over his left shoulder while heeling. He could claim it demonstrates the dog's eternal vigilance against attack from the rear. 

I suppose Schutzhund is a great sport and a lot of fun, as a game should be. I'll allow that I don't know the rules to the game but I do know a dog trick when I see one.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Um, Chris, not sure what's going on here. You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder against Schutzhund? I started this thread because I'm working on training my newly adopted dog and thought this was a neat way to get him to focus on me when there are other distractions like dogs, bunnies, etc. It actually isn't cruel at all--he's staying by my side and looking up at me because he knows he'll get a treat. It's a game for him. I didn't start the thread to have people trash Schutzhund. It's not for everyone but some people enjoy it with their dogs and I think that's great!


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Chris,

OK, first there is no "impression" of being focused and willing to please. This method of heeling when done correctly takes more drive building and training hours than you can imagine. The focus is UNREAL, and not a "trick" like looking backward or limping. A smart dog can be trained to do a lot, but the obedience portion is only 1/3 of the sport. All smart dogs CANNOT work in protection. This takes solid nerves, and only the best clear headed dogs can do it.


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## nitetrane98 (Feb 23, 2008)

Ruth,
I didn't intend to come across as bashing Sch. I looked into Sch. years ago when it first started becoming popular. Any GSD that I have personally ever owned could easily pass any Sch obedience test. At the time I thought, "Hey, a great way for people to learn to train their dogs and have some proof of it when they get their certification." I didn't particularly feel that I needed that validation and didn't pursue it any further. I wasn't going to be a breeder and didn't care whether my dog had a string of titles following his name. As with so many things, it now appears that the game has evolved to where it will not suffice for a dog to simply do as he is told, he must now demonstrate that he likes it. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a real classy looking heel and more power to you to teach it to your dog. I just tend to take things at face value and to me a dog heeling in that manner is just doing what he was trained to do. 
I apologize for interjecting this into your thread, which was, after all, about how to do it.

Chris


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## nitetrane98 (Feb 23, 2008)

Let's not forget that the real reason for all of this focus is the dog is either hoping for that Kong to appear or to get a treat. All of those beautiful dogs at Westminster displayed unreal focus at that piece of liver in the handlers hand too. As is usually the case, the desired result is a byproduct of the use of the drive the dog has.

Perhaps only a matter of semantics but a less driven dog can be a fine protection dog. The dog I trained to be my K9 partner actually flunked out at the point he was required to chase after a fleeing bad guy. He was superb at his obedience and agility and would show his pearly whites on command, bark and growl. He hit the sleeve with authority and outed very well. But when it came time to leave my side, about ten-fifteen feet was it. Trainer thought perhaps he was too well bonded with me since I had had him from a pup. Since there was no real certification to speak of in those days, he went ahead and worked for awhile anyway. 

He made a fantastic protection dog for my wife and family. With just a little work, my wife soon learned all of the commands and he performed admirably for her also. He was an American bloodline GSD and would have never advanced any further than obedience in Sch.
You'll get no argument from me concerning the temperament required for the protection work I think you are referring to.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

LOL

A few things that you need to know here. One - this type of focus does not come from food drive (treats). You can get the basic exercises down, but it will be a much more mechanical performance that looks like the dog is just going through the motions. To compare the focus a dog is showing in the ideal SchH heeling picture to show dogs looking at a piece of liver is a massive example of apples and oranges. 

Methodology has changed SIGNIFICANTLY as far as protection work goes over the last 30 years. Too bonded to go more than 10-15 feet does not make sense, but I'll let more experienced handlers address that.


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## nitetrane98 (Feb 23, 2008)

I neglected to add that in retrospect he was likely just being a bit diplomatic instead of saying your dog doesn't have what it takes. But OTOH, drive and drive building wasn't that well understood, at least by that particular trainer, at that time. The plain truth was that my dog didn't have the temperament for the job to begin with. He did, however, do the best he could with what he had.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Chris, it was not just that trainer. For the most part, from what I've been told hardly any trainers understood drive building at that point. It's relatively new from a historical standpoint. BUT, the most important thing was that your dog gave you all he had which was all you needed.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Chris08 As with so many things, it now appears that the game has evolved to where it will not suffice for a dog to simply do as he is told, he must now demonstrate that he likes it. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a real classy looking heel and more power to you to teach it to your dog. I just tend to take things at face value and to me a dog heeling in that manner is just doing what he was trained to do.


Actually doesn't that apply to pretty much everything we train the dogs to do? They're just doing what they're taught. When you talk about a heel where the dog looks around and compare it to a heel where the dog is focused on the handler, they're still both trained behaviors. Even when we shape a behavior around a natural instinct, it's still got a level of training to it. 

It's all a game in a way, and yet to the dog it may be their "job" too. I don't do schutzhund, but I have played with it in the past (have a chow with a BH). I do show in competitive obedience, however, and I teach my dogs a focused heel. In the old days when I started (20 years or so ago) the dogs weren't looking up at your face that much and that was fine as long as they stayed in heel position (basically their neck is in line with your leg). Even now a judge shouldn't give extra points to a dog that is looking up at their handler - as long as a dog stays in heel position, it shouldn't matter where they're looking. But what most of us have found is that there is a more consistent heel to most dogs that are taught that focused attention. When there are lots of distractions around and yet your dog is looking at YOU, you know you have their attention and that they are not allowing themselves to be distracted. It takes a lot of consistent training and usually a very motivating handler to teach a dog this type of heeling.

Now, for police work you certainly wouldn't want your dog looking at you all the time. It's a completely different job. I don't want my dogs looking at me all the time when we're doing other things (like retrieves, jumps, agility, herding, tracking, etc.). And so I teach them alternate behaviors that fit those venues. If I tell my dogs "look!" they look away from me to see what I'm indicating. That's just another trained behavior, of course!

I love watching dogs in competition that show a true joy in what they're doing. I want to see a dog with ears forward, face relaxed and happy, full of eagerness when heeling and retrieving and coming when called. You tend to get more of that when a really positive training method is used. In the old days I could train a dog to be a very reliable heeling dog by using a choke chain and properly timed corrections - but I didn't get the joy I see in my dogs now. To me, there's a huge difference. Not everyone sees this though. To some people it's all the same except that some dogs look up and some don't.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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