# what do i try next?



## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

So sage is about 4 months 2 weeks old. And i still haven't found a food that gives her constant solid stools... First was Iams, then premium edge, then totw, then fromm( which i was really hopefull for) and now I'm feeding her crappy Purina pro plan that my vet gave me for free, the first few days she had decently solid poop, but now it's really goopy most of the time, so I'm at a total loss of what to try next. Even pumpkin doesn't seem to help much anymore. So any advice would greatly be appreciated! Thanks


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

What ingredients did they have in common?

I have a dog that doesn't do we'll with chicken. Many foods include chicken.

Research ingredients, not just brands.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Make sure stool is clear of parasites, including giardia and coccidia. A pup or dog can be affected and not shed, or can have mild symptoms until the immune system is stressed.

Also how much are you feeding? Over feeding is a common cause of loose stools.

Also as zyppi suggested, read ingredients - for instance, if they were all a chicken based food, try a unique protein such as bison or venison or fish.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

I will check all of the ingredients and see if there is a common one. i feel like I'm under feeding her, i give her one cup twice a day


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

1c. 2x a day is enough if not a little under. 
You can gradually move her up to 1.5c. 2x a day. 

See if you can bring a stool sample (when it's loose) to your vet for analysis, that's never a bad place to start


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Best stools produced, besides being fed raw is when I feed WD EVO beef.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I thought EVO was for fully grown dogs, though, aren't the values off too far for a puppy?


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I would get the stool sample done as Msvette suggested and also try a good digestive enzyme/probiotic supplement. Does your puppy seem underweight? What kind of stools is the pup throwing out? (Diarrhea, mushy "soft serve", light brown, dark brown, yellow, grey, purple?! :x) EPI/SIBO are issues that GSDs sometimes have and could cause poor stool quality, imo it's worth checking for in our breed if the dog shows any small sign of it since the faster you catch it the easier it'll be to treat. Check out Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency, they also have a SIBO section.

I'm also curious how long you're giving these foods to work? It seems like you've been bouncing around pretty frequently and the puppy is only 4.5 months old. Assuming you didn't even get the pup until it was 8 weeks old, that's 5 different foods in roughly 2.5 months time! You might need to slow it down, take the dog off all kibble and just feed chicken or beef (Pick one or the other, don't rotate the two meats) and double cooked rice. See if the stools firm up on that and give it a couple days for the tummy to settle. Then start SLOWLY adding in a kibble, like a tablespoon 3x a day. Then up it to like 1/4th cup twice a day, 1/2 cup twice a day, 1 cup twice a day....Just remove some of the meat/rice combo as you add in the kibble. Hopefully that'll help stabilize your pups system. But you really do want to check for parasites since coccidia and giardia can be nasty little buggers and aren't seen in the stool like other parasites are. (ie. tapeworms, roundworm, ect) Testing for medical problems would also be a good start.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes, I agree you will want to get her tested for worms. All the vet needs is a teaspoon of her loose stool. I use a plastic spoon and put spoon with the stool in a small ziplock freezer bag. Also when you do change food to do it very slowly - mixing in the new with the old and increasing the ratio of new to old over a period of 2 - 3 weeks. You may want to try Solid Gold Wolf Cub - it is for large breed puppies. It has bison and fish. No wheat, no soybeans, no corn, no animal fat, no poultry fat, no by-products, no sugar added, no preservatives added, no salt, no sunflower oil. You may also want to add a prebiotic like OptaGest. If your pup likes yogurt (plain with the live cultures) you can also give that to help the digestion. For how much to feed start with the recommendations on the package and see how your pup does. It could also be too much pumpkin - it has a lot of fiber like sweet potato, when my Sting was a pup, he loved those sweet potato chews - but they give him loose stools, so I stopped.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

ChancetheGSD said:


> I would get the stool sample done as Msvette suggested and also try a good digestive enzyme/probiotic supplement. Does your puppy seem underweight? What kind of stools is the pup throwing out? (Diarrhea, mushy "soft serve", light brown, dark brown, yellow, grey, purple?! :x) EPI/SIBO are issues that GSDs sometimes have and could cause poor stool quality, imo it's worth checking for in our breed if the dog shows any small sign of it since the faster you catch it the easier it'll be to treat. Check out Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency, they also have a SIBO section.
> 
> I'm also curious how long you're giving these foods to work? It seems like you've been bouncing around pretty frequently and the puppy is only 4.5 months old. Assuming you didn't even get the pup until it was 8 weeks old, that's 5 different foods in roughly 2.5 months time! You might need to slow it down, take the dog off all kibble and just feed chicken or beef (Pick one or the other, don't rotate the two meats) and double cooked rice. See if the stools firm up on that and give it a couple days for the tummy to settle. Then start SLOWLY adding in a kibble, like a tablespoon 3x a day. Then up it to like 1/4th cup twice a day, 1/2 cup twice a day, 1 cup twice a day....Just remove some of the meat/rice combo as you add in the kibble. Hopefully that'll help stabilize your pups system. But you really do want to check for parasites since coccidia and giardia can be nasty little buggers and aren't seen in the stool like other parasites are. (ie. tapeworms, roundworm, ect) Testing for medical problems would also be a good start.



Her poop is usually soft serve . And either a light brown or green
, and i usually give her about 2 weeks on each food, unless it is coming out like a fountain than i switch it out faster. I'd like to try putting her on chicken or beef and rice. Can you please explain better what to buy and how to prepare all of it? Like how to twice cook the riceand how what kind of meat and how you would prepare it. That would be awesome, thank you. I had her tested for parasites a few months ago but i guess I'll do it again.

Thanks again


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Mary Beth said:


> Yes, I agree you will want to get her tested for worms. All the vet needs is a teaspoon of her loose stool. I use a plastic spoon and put spoon with the stool in a small ziplock freezer bag. Also when you do change food to do it very slowly - mixing in the new with the old and increasing the ratio of new to old over a period of 2 - 3 weeks. You may want to try Solid Gold Wolf Cub - it is for large breed puppies. It has bison and fish. No wheat, no soybeans, no corn, no animal fat, no poultry fat, no by-products, no sugar added, no preservatives added, no salt, no sunflower oil. You may also want to add a prebiotic like OptaGest. If your pup likes yogurt (plain with the live cultures) you can also give that to help the digestion. For how much to feed start with the recommendations on the package and see how your pup does. It could also be too much pumpkin - it has a lot of fiber like sweet potato, when my Sting was a pup, he loved those sweet potato chews - but they give him loose stools, so I stopped.


I might try that solid gold wild club, i tried giving her plain yogurt a few weeks ago and it gave her bad diarrhea


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

If you haven't already, I would have a vet check her out to make sure she doesn't have parasites or something else going on. 

I had the same problem with my dog when she was a puppy. I dealt with it until she was almost a year old before someone suggested I take her off all chicken products. I did that and after a ground beef/rice mixture for a few days I started her on Blue Buffalo Basics Salmon and Potato dry food. Since I've gotten her on a "salmon" food, she hasn't had any diarrhea issues at all.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Can someone give me info on feeding ground beef and rice? What to buy and how to prepare


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

I will try to buy the extra lean ground beef and cook it. Once its done I drain off all the fat and let it cool. While the ground beef is cooking I make up a batch of rice. I use Uncle Bens rice. I will feed 1/4 cup of ground beef and a 1/4 cut of rice and mix it together. Then once I see that my dog is tolerating the ground beef and rice I will up it until I am feeding the amount that I normally would feed my dog her dry food. I usually keep her on that for 3-4 days and then I slowly introduce the dry food back into her diet. Usually 1/4 cup of dry mixed in with the 1 1/4 cup of ground beef/rice mixture. Then I slowly up the dry food and decrease the ground beef/rice mixture until she is eating only the dry food.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Pattycakes said:


> I will try to buy the extra lean ground beef and cook it. Once its done I drain off all the fat and let it cool. While the ground beef is cooking I make up a batch of rice. I use Uncle Bens rice. I will feed 1/4 cup of ground beef and a 1/4 cut of rice and mix it together. Then once I see that my dog is tolerating the ground beef and rice I will up it until I am feeding the amount that I normally would feed my dog her dry food. I usually keep her on that for 3-4 days and then I slowly introduce the dry food back into her diet. Usually 1/4 cup of dry mixed in with the 1 1/4 cup of ground beef/rice mixture. Then I slowly up the dry food and decrease the ground beef/rice mixture until she is eating only the dry food.


White or brown rice? And do you cook it according to directions on the box? Then feed her it?


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

I use white rice. Yes...cooked according to directions. I mix it with the ground beef once its cooled off.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm going to try this tonight


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

BOIL the beef, and then pour off the water.

I'm wondering if your girl is developing EPI. 
Read through and see what you think.

Overview - EPI * Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I buy cheap bagged rice, brown or white is fine to use. I would double cook it which is basically just cooking it in double the recommended water until it's a "mush".

Also, you can get Solid Gold Wolf King for a couple bucks cheaper than Wolf Cub. I raised Chance on it when he was a pup and he did great.  It's roughly the same food as the Wolf Cub only a few ingredients are swapped around on the list and the Wolf Cub is higher protein and fat than Wolf King. You don't need to feed a puppy food, an adult food will work just fine. I fed the Just a Wee Bit formula to my small dogs as well and they did great on it too, some even produced the lovely "white poop".  (It'd come out a solid brown and after a day or so would turn white and crumble so I didn't have clean up! Lol!) It too is the same formula as Wolf King/Wolf Cub just a couple ingredients are switched around from the other two formulas and a very small kibble compared to the other 2.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We use Solid Gold for puppies here (especially small breed and orphans), and now my Dachshund is on it as it's one of the few without added salt (he's got CHF). His is Bark at the Moon I believe.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> We use Solid Gold for puppies here (especially small breed and orphans), and now my Dachshund is on it as it's one of the few without added salt (he's got CHF). His is Bark at the Moon I believe.


 My Sting loves Bark At the Moon. I switched him over to that when WolfKing wasn't available. It is the first food I have had to measure out for him or he'd eat the whole bag and look it If you want to use an adult food for your puppy, that may work better as it is small pieces.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

How in the world do you boil beef lol? I just cooked it on a pan like normal


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Thanks for the link. I read through the symptoms and i don't think she had any of them. She hadn't been getting skinnier,or the colored stool


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

try putting it in a pot of boiling water, duh.


coulter said:


> How in the world do you boil beef lol? I just cooked it on a pan like normal


</p>


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> try putting it in a pot of boiling water, duh.</p>


Lol yes thank you for clarifying, i guess my joke wasn't much of a joke ha ha
Is it better to boil it than to do what i did?


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

Yellow or green poop? Does not sound healthy at all... 

When my pup was 4 months old she had yellow diarrhea, and food switching didn't help... I took her to the vet turned out she had giargia, its a type of parasite very common for puppies. If you keep this up, you will have a malnorished puppy and you will waste all that money trying all different dog food. Your best bet is taking him to the vet as soon as possible. Your pups is growing and MUST have proper nutrition even more than adult dog..Hope he gets well soon


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Mary Beth said:


> My Sting loves Bark At the Moon. I switched him over to that when WolfKing wasn't available. It is the first food I have had to measure out for him or he'd eat the whole bag and look it If you want to use an adult food for your puppy, that may work better as it is small pieces.


Tristan's gained a few lbs., I can tell! I haven't weighed him but we brought him in shortly after he was dx'ed with a murmur because he was losing weight and his nose was dripping constantly. It turned out his heart had enlarged and he was having chest congestion (congestive heart failure) 
Anyway, we did some research and found a kibble made with no added salt, and the only one we could find was Solid Gold! 
He LOVES it, and he's regained what he'd lost. We have cut his food back a tad because he'd pudge right up, I'm sure!

We recommend Solid Gold Wee bits to adopters, who adopt small breeds from us.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

coulter said:


> Lol yes thank you for clarifying, i guess my joke wasn't much of a joke ha ha
> Is it better to boil it than to do what i did?


Yes. 
But if you fried it then rinse it well with very hot water to remove more grease.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

julie87 said:


> Yellow or green poop? Does not sound healthy at all...
> 
> When my pup was 4 months old she had yellow diarrhea, and food switching didn't help... I took her to the vet turned out she had giargia, its a type of parasite very common for puppies. If you keep this up, you will have a malnorished puppy and you will waste all that money trying all different dog food. Your best bet is taking him to the vet as soon as possible. Your pups is growing and MUST have proper nutrition even more than adult dog..Hope he gets well soon


Wait, i didn't say she had yellow and green poop.she mostly has brown poop with an occasional dark green. Is that really that bad? And i don't know if she is malnourished much or at all. She is a little skinny, but I'm not feeding her as much as i could be. she ways 26 lbs. And continues to gain. So i would hope she's not malnourished, i just want her to have nice dry poos all of the time


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

coulter said:


> Her poop is usually soft serve . *And either a light brown or green*
> , and i usually give her about 2 weeks on each food, unless it is coming out like a* fountain* than i switch it out faster. I'd like to try putting her on chicken or beef and rice. Can you please explain better what to buy and how to prepare all of it? Like how to twice cook the riceand how what kind of meat and how you would prepare it. That would be awesome, thank you. I had her tested for parasites a few months ago but i guess I'll do it again.
> 
> Thanks again


Not healthy...if she is not malnorished now she will be with all the diarrhea that she is having. Just take her to the vet stop experimenting food on her. Learn from my experience and do the right thing for your pup.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

julie87 said:


> Not healthy...if she is not malnorished now she will be with all the diarrhea that she is having. Just take her to the vet stop experimenting food on her. Learn from my experience and do the right thing for your pup.


Only onefood gave her the fountain and i quickly switched it. So no she is not having diarrhea, just soft poop. Not liquid. And i don't consider soft poop diarrhea,unlesss i am wrong and someone else can correct me?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

coulter said:


> Only onefood gave her the fountain and i quickly switched it. So no she is not having diarrhea, just soft poop. Not liquid. And i don't consider soft poop diarrhea,unlesss i am wrong and someone else can correct me?


 I agree with you. Though being she is a pup , I would also get her retested to rule that out. For the soft stuff and the every 2 weeks cycle, that reminds me of my Aussie - though I adopted him when he was an adult. I didn't know about Solid Gold or the Pre-biotic both which my Sting is on would have probably solved it. Anyway - he was real sensitive to weather changes, and if he got excited, too hot, drank a lot of water and so on then his poop would get soft for a couple of days and clear up. For your pup it could be the same especially with all the growing, chewing, teething.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

I had the same problem with my last GSD. She was very sensitive to anything with grains and chicken. If you don't think anything else is wrong with her besides the mushy poop, I would try and start her on a LID (limited ingredient diet) and see if you can see what is bugging her through process of elimination.

I know the last thing you want to do is try a new food, but there's got to be a common link with all of the foods that you have tried. FWIW I had fed my last one Natural Balance and she did well on it. I hope you find something that works


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Bear GSD said:


> I had the same problem with my last GSD. She was very sensitive to anything with grains and chicken. If you don't think anything else is wrong with her besides the mushy poop, I would try and start her on a LID (limited ingredient diet) and see if you can see what is bugging her through process of elimination.
> 
> I know the last thing you want to do is try a new food, but there's got to be a common link with all of the foods that you have tried. FWIW I had fed my last one Natural Balance and she did well on it. I hope you find something that works


What kind of LID do you suggest?

And i tried looking for a common ingredient but everything I've fed her seems to have everything about the same. I think if i found a food that works then i could figure out what 
The problem ingredient is


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Ok guys, so last night and today i fed sage nothing but ground beef and rice. This morning she didn't poop very much, just 2 or 3 little nuggets toe sized each. And nothing else all day. After dinner she went out and pooped one nuggets maybe the size of your big toe( i know weird analogy) but anyways my thoughts are this is a good sign? Because the less they poop the more nutrients their body has absorbed. Am i right in thinking this? Or maybe it's to soon to tell after one day?


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

coulter said:


> What kind of LID do you suggest?
> 
> And i tried looking for a common ingredient but everything I've fed her seems to have everything about the same. I think if i found a food that works then i could figure out what
> The problem ingredient is


I used the Natural Balance Bison and Sweet Potato. I knew from process of elimination that my last dog was sensitive to chicken and grains. The thing with LID diets is that they limit what ingredients are used so that you can isolate specific protein sources. 

They make quite a few LID products now adays so you should have an easy time finding something that might work for her.


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Bear GSD said:


> I used the Natural Balance Bison and Sweet Potato. I knew from process of elimination that my last dog was sensitive to chicken and grains. The thing with LID diets is that they limit what ingredients are used so that you can isolate specific protein sources.
> 
> They make quite a few LID products now adays so you should have an easy time finding something that might work for her.


Ok thanks I'll look into that


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Any thoughts on what i said about her poop? same thing again this morning


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

Thats fine. My dog didn't poop the first day I fed her the ground beef/rice mixture and then since I wasn't feeding very much...she had smaller amounts of poop too. I know it took a 2-3 days before my dog pooped normal once I started her on the ground beef/rice mixture...just don't remember exactly how long since it was a few years ago. Is the poop solid or is it runny?


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

Pattycakes said:


> Thats fine. My dog didn't poop the first day I fed her the ground beef/rice mixture and then since I wasn't feeding very much...she had smaller amounts of poop too. I know it took a 2-3 days before my dog pooped normal once I started her on the ground beef/rice mixture...just don't remember exactly how long since it was a few years ago. Is the poop solid or is it runny?


Her poop it's tiny but perfectly hard


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

As long as she is pooping and its solid...I wouldn't worry about it.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Real food will typically produce more solid, smaller and firmer poos. This is what you could expect if you did a raw diet or at least home cooked.  If I went with an LID food, I'd go with California Natural over Natural Balance personally. I especially don't like their venison and bison formulas, you're paying a really high price for a bag of sweet potatoes and peas, their meat isn't even a meat meal so even though it's second on the ingredients list (Which means that the #1 ingredient of sweet potato has the most percentage of ingredient in the food) it's only "venison" or "bison" so it's weighed prior to the water being removed. Meat tends to be about 60% water so once that water is removed the meat in this food is nearly non-existent compared to the sweet potato and peas in it. At least in California Naturals Venison formula, the meat is the 1st ingredient and it's a meat meal so it's not going to drop on the ingredients list after being cooked. I'd personally try their lamb formula (Grain or grain free is both good) first though if you went with LID food. Would cooking or giving raw be an option at all?


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## coulter (Oct 13, 2012)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Real food will typically produce more solid, smaller and firmer poos. This is what you could expect if you did a raw diet or at least home cooked.  If I went with an LID food, I'd go with California Natural over Natural Balance personally. I especially don't like their venison and bison formulas, you're paying a really high price for a bag of sweet potatoes and peas, their meat isn't even a meat meal so even though it's second on the ingredients list (Which means that the #1 ingredient of sweet potato has the most percentage of ingredient in the food) it's only "venison" or "bison" so it's weighed prior to the water being removed. Meat tends to be about 60% water so once that water is removed the meat in this food is nearly non-existent compared to the sweet potato and peas in it. At least in California Naturals Venison formula, the meat is the 1st ingredient and it's a meat meal so it's not going to drop on the ingredients list after being cooked. I'd personally try their lamb formula (Grain or grain free is both good) first though if you went with LID food. Would cooking or giving raw be an option at all?


I would love to fed raw or cook! What's the difference though? Just Haveing cooked meat verse raw meet? My main concern is not being able to afford it. But i guess i should look into it more, and see what the monthly cost difference is between that and kibble. I really have no idea what to feed for raw or just cooking food. I need to research that as well, unless someone has some relatively easy recipes?


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