# We need help!...looking for the right breeder.



## AriMargulies (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey All....
In our search for the right breeder some help in understanding the following or getting some good advice would be really helpful.
As this is a 10-15 year commitment for us we don't take it lightly.
What we're looking for:
A family companion GSD (female) with a medium drive as we most probably won't be doing more than basic initial training, 30-60 minutes of daily exercise and we're not crazy active.
We just want a loyal, protective, loving and fun new member of the family that could have a bunch of fun outside but also could be equally happy as a coach potato from time to time.
We have 2 young daughters ages 7 and 8.5.

Our priorities really are temperament and health first....everything else follows.

We've been researching for a while now and have followed much of the advice and articles I have seen here but there are some areas that I'm getting inconsistent answers on from breeders I've talked to:

Does our criteria put us out of the working line GSD. Some breeders have said this to us that they are too much dog for us.
How critical is it that it not be the first litter for a specific Dam and Sire together.
How important is DM testing.
Any thoughts or advice would be great!
If anyone knows of a breeder that could fit the bill it would be really helpful. Would prefer the North East but willing to look outside that radius.

Thanks again all


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

find a reputable breeder. with training and socializing you can
have whatever type dog you want whether it's a show line
or working line.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

AriMargulies said:


> Hey All....
> In our search for the right breeder some help in understanding the following or getting some good advice would be really helpful.
> As this is a 10-15 year commitment for us we don't take it lightly.
> What we're looking for:
> ...


 
well first off, welcome. I have a 4 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. As far as working lines, my male is DDR/Czech. He's considered medium energy. Is he a handful? yes he is. Right now, he is only able to settle down when I crate him. He cant seem to stop moving otherwise but he is only 4 months old. I don't expect to see him actually settle down any inside for a while yet. It's been too hot here to do much outside but he and my adult female get play time inside. We go to class once a week and will probably be starting training for Search and Rescue soon. Dax loves everyone so far and does get very excited about meeting new people. He likes to jump. It's a work in progress to make that stop. He pretty well keeps me pretty busy but in all honesty, his energy is nothing compared to my first GSD that I adopted as an adult but had to start training from scratch with her being pretty set in her ways. 

Truth is, working line litters can have low energy/low drive dogs all the way on up to high energy/high drive dogs. There's always going to be a range in the litter. Write down exactly what you want and what you're looking for. Be completely honest in what you can reasonably handle. I was looking primarily for an active companion to take hiking with me when I go and one who can eventually exercise with me so I can do my midnight walks again. If this will be your first GSD, I'd be hesitant to suggest a working line just because they do tend to mature slower and as with any dog, you don't have a set temperament until the dog is older than a year. 

For first litters between dogs, I'd be hesitant there if they're both new at it because you've got nothing to base what either produce or traits they share to the pups. Now if it's a first time breeding of a bitch to a stud that's been bred before and vice versa, I'd be okay with that because you can generally see what the experienced dog has passed to previous litters they've produced. A first time breeding between two dogs where neither have been bred before, I'd be unsure about. 

I think DM testing is important but again, it goes back to looking at the lines and the dog produced and seeing if any have had DM and what the occurrence rate is. 

In the end, it's really about what YOU feel is important from what you've learned and finding a breeder that you like and getting to know them, their dogs and being honest. After all, they are interviewing you as well as you interviewing them. 

good luck


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

what Krystal said ^^^

I have always had working lines, working line mixes.

Most dogs need more than 30 - 60 minutes of daily exercise no matter what line. Puppies , as Krystal said, are pretty much on the move constantly. 

I also recommend anyone to take a puppy/obedience classes beneficial to the owners as well as the dogs. 

Key is finding a breeder to meet your needs, one that can peg their puppies and match them to what YOU want and don't want.

Normally gsd's are not meant to be laid back couch potatoes. 

Hope you find what your looking for


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ari, we have talked via PM about a few breeders but I have another one for you to check out. 

Crooked Creek Ranch 

Crooked Creek Ranch 

I have no experience with Karen but know a few with her dogs and they seem happy. Many of them have young children too. You can also find her on facebook. She does ship dogs.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

It being a first litter between a breeding pair is not really relevant if the breeding is well planned.

The breeder and their understanding and knowledge is just as important, if not more so....

I am doing a litter for myself, tomorrow actually, to fix type, that is going to puzzle some people - except for me, the owner of the male and a few people who will look at the pedigree and see what and why it is being done.....it is not a litter full of BSP dogs but should give me the balance and look that I want to set more firmly...

Lee


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## AriMargulies (Jul 14, 2013)

Thank you so much for your continued help. 
I reached out and am waiting for a reply. 
It seems the more I dig into the subject the harder it gets.. 
I'm getting very different point of views on working line vs show line and how a working line may be too much dog for us... 
Thanks again.... 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

How could I forget about Crooked Creek? I also agree contact Karen, her dogs are very versatile, great for families as well as some are doing different things..

Check out her FB page, tons of pics, of her dogs socializing, doing various things, owners etc...I have never heard a 'bad' thing about her or any of the dogs she produces...She may have one that will be a good match for you..


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

AriMargulies said:


> I'm getting very different point of views on working line vs show line and how a working line may be too much dog for us...
> Thanks again....
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


This is why it will behoove you to identify and communicate with good breeders who have experience with the lines they breed. If you are open and honest about your experience level, expectations, living situation, etc. they should be able to advise whether their dogs may be right for you, whether they be working lines or show lines. You cannot generalize that all working lines will be too much and all show lines won't be too much. Also realize that opinions about what is "too much" are subjective. What seems easy and second nature to one person may seem like too much for another. 

If you have an interest in working line dogs, don't rule them out merely because they are "working line" dogs. Whether you decide to get a working line or show line, identify some good breeders, communicate openly with them, and go from there. 

Good luck.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

yeah I agree with contacting Karen at CCR. if you are all curious about their dogs from an owners point of view, definitely get in touch with Cheryl Goede and her husband Kevin. Cheryl is the owner/founder of The German Shepherd Dog Community on FB. They have SEVERAL CCR dogs and are very pleased with them. Karen is on my breeder list for the future as well. 

WL vs SL is only an issue if people make it an issue. Honestly, it's what you feel you can handle. Even in SL dogs, you can wind up with a high energy/high drive dog. It may or may not happen often but it does happen. WL just tends to have more of it because that's what they're bred for. Really I couldn't be more pleased with my working line. He keeps me on my toes, makes me smile and laugh, and is quiet the mama's boy. I'm excited to see the adult he becomes and with already have two young children, adding a third furry one really wasn't all that hard. 

Also the SL vs WL is a matter of preference as well. Some people are hardcore SL lovers because that's just what they prefer both in looks, temperaments and ability. Same goes for WL lovers. I prefer the looks and temperaments of the WL dogs but if I were to find a SL dog that fit my desires, I'd get that pup to join our family despite my love of the looks of the WL dogs. I'm a sucker for sables so tend to be drawn to them first in looks. Temperament is most important however so I'll sacrifice looks to get the temperament that I'm looking for that would best fit the family.


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## ten3zro (Jul 13, 2013)

I'm curious...given your expectations and needs for the dog, why is it that you're set on owning a GSD as opposed to another, less active breed?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> A family companion GSD (female) with a medium drive as we most probably won't be doing more than basic initial training, 30-60 minutes of daily exercise and we're not crazy active.


Your descriptions contradict characteristics of the breed. GSD is crazy active, if not - it is or a sick GSD, or an outcast of the breed.


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## AriMargulies (Jul 14, 2013)

Great advise all around....
While I wait for a reply from CCR has anyone had any dealings with a breeder by the name of Peggy at?
Abbas German Shepherds

seemed very knowledgeable over the phone and thinks that her current Sarge/Naya litter would be a good fit....


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> seemed very knowledgeable over the phone and thinks that her current Sarge/Naya litter would be a good fit


They can tell you anything. Honestly, GSD is not a dog to lead relaxed life. Normally, people who want to have GSD ask what schools and classes they must attend. GSD is a breed of agressive dogs, that is their characteristics. What will you do if your dog starts showing agression at one year?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

David Taggart said:


> They can tell you anything. Honestly, GSD is not a dog to lead relaxed life. Normally, people who want to have GSD ask what schools and classes they must attend. GSD is a breed of agressive dogs, that is their characteristics. What will you do if your dog starts showing agression at one year?


where do you get these things? Yes, their exercise hopes might be a bit low, especially for a puppy but I don't see any reason that a GSD wouldn't fit into their home.

A GSD needs a firm hand and be taught manners. I'm not sure how that relates to it will become aggressive at a year old? If they go to a good trainer and complete a couple basic obedience classes and then keep up that work at home, I don't see why they would have any problems. A reputable breeder can match them to a dog that will fit in nicely with their family.
There are many GSDs who will happily live in a relaxed family as long as they have an outlet for their energy outside. Hiking on the weekends, playing hide & seek with the kids in the yard. Lots of things that you can do to keep an active dog happy in the average family home. And without a lot of extra effort, I might add!
A quick youtube or google search will show a bunch of fun games and tricks to get your dog's brain working that the average owner can do at home, working just a little bit a day. It comes down to the quality of the time you spend just as much as the quantitiy


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

OP, don't listen to anything David says. Just for your sanity, its better to ignore him and the outlandish things he says. 

There are plenty of GSDs that live happily in a family environment. In fact the majority do. Police K9s usually live at home with their handlers. Retired Military Working Dogs often get adopted by their handlers or retired to another family. 

If you are committed to the dog, everything else generally will fall into place.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Absolutely true on the WL vs SL. My SL is the most drivey dog I have ever had. He ran circles around some WL.

And edit to add... Mr. Taggert may be on another planet. I have GSD's for nearly 30 years. I have never had one that was crazy active. They do need exercise adn socialization, perhaps more than other breeds but they are not "crazy" active. I worked full time and raised a little boy by myself with 2 GSD's. We stayed active but it sure was not a big stretch to keep them exercised.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Just looked at the Abbas site and just looking and not knowing the dogs well, I would consider that this might be a WL breeder with dogs that may be too much dog. My reason is the number of dogs they place with police agancies. I do not know this breeder or the dogs so that is just an opinion on my part.


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## DJ BEN (Apr 29, 2013)

Hi Ari,

If you are still getting mixed ideas, and you still feel confused, please private message me as I may be able to give you some advice from a different point of view. Have fun in your search until then.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I think that with the many breeders out there nowadays, you can find any drives in any lines. The more people you talk to with GSD's about lines, the more you will learn. Keep a note book handy for taking notes if you need to. I have a West German bitch. She just turned 7 last month, she has always settled in the house nicely. That is to say, she is not constantly moving or in need of stimulation. I think you will find that type of dog in many kennels, that is what the demand is. I did notice her settle a bit more after 4 yrs of age. We do walk at least a mile, if not more, every day. That is for an adult dog. Active play, obedience training, walking all exercise your dog. When we cant go outside, we play games inside as much as possible. I think a GSD is fine for your family, your children can even get into 4-h or junior handling with the dog. I will give you the link for my breeder, in Oklahoma. She is very knowledgeable about different lines, type, temperaments and drives. May be worth looking into. I am expecting two puppies from her new stud next week via c-section next Friday. Cant wait to see what these two produce.
Austerlitz German Shepherd Dogs 

She is more active on FB (arent we all) so follow the link to there.

The breeder you posted has Czech/DDR dogs mostly. I am not very familiar with those lines and what is produced. I will say that the couple of DDR lines I have been exposed to have been more handler sensitive. The last litter I had was an east/west breeding and very sensitive puppies. Wont do that again. But still very nice puppies.


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## K.Creek (Apr 7, 2013)

AriMargulies said:


> Hey All....
> In our search for the right breeder some help in understanding the following or getting some good advice would be really helpful.
> As this is a 10-15 year commitment for us we don't take it lightly.
> What we're looking for:
> ...


I would look at Schraderhaus in Roy, WA...I know it's far, but you can call Jean and she is super helpful! I think some of her pups may be a good fit!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ari, I know Susanne at Austerlitz personally too. SHe is an excellnet breeder. Please let us know when you find your pup.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

some are very active and some are calm and they're not sick or outcasts.



David Taggart said:


> Your descriptions contradict characteristics of the breed. GSD is crazy active, if not - it is or a sick GSD, or an outcast of the breed.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

not true.



David Taggart said:


> They can tell you anything. Honestly, GSD is not a dog to lead relaxed life. Normally, people who want to have GSD ask what schools and classes they must attend.
> 
> >>>> GSD is a breed of agressive dogs,<<<<<
> 
> that is their characteristics. What will you do if your dog starts showing agression at one year?


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Sent you a PM reply about your question. 

Sorry to take a while to get back to you, have been busy with my puppies and haven't gotten on here for a while.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

I absolutely adore my Koda, he is very active yet calm. I have a 4 year old boy and he has been nothing but uber gentle and caring towards him. They adore each other. He is such a love bug really. 

Yet, when we were training- Koda is "on", he does what he is asked of him and then some. 

We take Koda to many places, he behaves the way GSD should, confident, calm, not overly friendly, watchful of his little boy. 

Once you have raised a GSD, there's no looking at other breeds, they steal your heart.


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## AriMargulies (Jul 14, 2013)

tried reaching out to her but can't seem to get a call back.....thanks for your continued help


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Pretty much everyone has a breeder they have dealt with and like - or they like the website - or they like someone's photos on a forum...

From your description of what you want to do - or more importantly!!! NOT do with your dog...I PERSONALLY would recommend you get the lowest drive pup out of a showline litter - I breed working lines - mine are companion dogs, many of whom train in IPO, Flyball, Agility, Rally, Obedience, are SAR dogs, service dogs or LE dogs.....even a medium to low drive dog may insist on more action that you are prepared to give!!!

Pretty much every breeder who is in business is going to reassure you that THEIR litter will give you the dog you want and need....frankly - I don't think this is true!!! I don't think I would want to sell you a pup for fear it would be more than you want and will be frustrating for you to raise....

Even the higher drive showline pups are usually not going to be as intense as a lower drive working pup.....

I would look at Drache Feld and dei Precision and alta Tollhaus as breeders I have seen dogs from who would be more suitable for you than a working line pup....if you had more interest in actually training a dog that would be different....but I would rather err on the low side than see anyone overfaced with a dog who is too much for them....

Lee


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

What Lee said! 

OP, I'd just want to toss this in just in case you aren't aware, there's an incorrect meme floating around on some online GSD communities that working line dogs are somehow immune to health problems such as hip dysplasia. That is simply and totally false. Both lines have good and bad breeders and potential genetic health problems. As such that shouldn't be what drives your decision as to what type of dog would best fit you and your family.


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