# If you breed a black to a black and tan



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

If you were going to breed an all black(a+a) to a Black and tan (as+as) light saddle or mask or both would it improve the pigment of the progeny. Would it pass the heavier black coverage. I already understand that the whole litter would automatically be (as+a) but would it actually produce heavier saddiling or darker head if that makes sense.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Don't take my answer as reliable, because I'm not entirely sure, but I do believe that a lot of breeders will use blacks to improve progeny's pigment.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You generally will get a much more extended blanket when you breed a black to a black/tan. Improvement of the mask will depend on what other genes the black dog carries since the gene responsible for the mask is separate.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

so only the color of the coat would def be effected and not the mask automatically


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> so only the color of the coat would def be effected and not the mask automatically


The mask is a total seperate gene. While the coloring of the GSD falls into the "a" alleles, the mask is under the "E" genes. Most GSD's are EmEm, which is 2 copies of the masking gene (meaning they can only pass a mask to their offspring). Occasionally, a GSD will be EmE, with only 1 copy of the masking gene.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

So technically the mask is from the begginig of the muzzle (nose) to where? around the eyes or further up.


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> So technically the mask is from the begginig of the muzzle (nose) to where? around the eyes or further up.


VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Coat Color
This website has a great deal of info. You can call them as well, they are very helpful. I used them when I did genetic testing on my pup.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

good info. so what controls the intensity and coverage off the mask. can a dog with a small mask produce dogs with more masking reguardless of the mates mask. with out getting into the geneology which for the most part i am pretty familiar.and again where does the mask technically end


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

mharrisonjr26 said:


> good info. so what controls the intensity and coverage off the mask. can a dog with a small mask produce dogs with more masking reguardless of the mates mask. with out getting into the geneology which for the most part i am pretty familiar.and again where does the mask technically end


I think so. I also believe (but call them to be sure) that those with 2 copies of the masking gene have more of a mask than those with 1 copy.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think you would be better off breeding to another black-brown with very strong mask...I know a show breeder who had that issue and that is what she looked for to improve the mask

not scientific - just observation

Lee


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> I think you would be better off breeding to another black-brown with very strong mask...I know a show breeder who had that issue and that is what she looked for to improve the mask
> 
> not scientific - just observation
> 
> Lee


Thanks Lee! As I am not a breedr, only a dog owner that has done genetics testing on my dog, I honestly would not know.


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> I think you would be better off breeding to another black-brown with very strong mask...I know a show breeder who had that issue and that is what she looked for to improve the mask
> 
> not scientific - just observation
> 
> Lee


 Did it work. Did the progeny indeed have a better mask.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

some did - but LOL - other things suffered....as they were not considered....

Lee


----------



## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

yeah I think when your breeding you must seriously consider all factors not just color. but i j/w if that could improve the balck coverage and the mask..


----------

