# Watching the Dog Whisperer and noticed something..



## silvergts1998 (Apr 23, 2010)

I actually love watching the Dog Whisperer and know he is controversial trainer with some other trainers but all I know is he knows more than me. 

Anyways..I see many of the people who ask for his help and notice that they seem to be kind of weak personalities. (Not weak in the sense of a bad person or lazy). I have kind of a strong personality when it comes to dogs where I expect obedience and behavior. So I am wondering if this is why some people have issues with their dogs listening to them. My career has been in sales management. Structure is important to me. So anyways..enough about me..my wife is laid back and she spends time with our GS. When she tells the GS to do something our dog immediately looks at me for permission. This annoys my wife where she walks off. lol! I never trained my dog to do this. This is my first dog and never had really any behavior problems that I see on the dog whisperer and wonder if it has to do with a person's personality on how they will act?

Now I am also open minded to take feed back and someone told me I might be to strict with my dog. They said to me..let the dog be a dog. Well to me this doesn't mean allow the dog to have run of the house. Our GS knows not to walk on carpet in the house and she stays on the wood floor. She doesn't go to the bathroom in the house or tear things apart. She always looks to me for permission first on anything told to her. So does having a strong personality where I take charge not fair to the dog? I don't want the dog to fear me but I do want it to respect the basic rules of the house. It seems like Cesar Milan's customers don't put structure with their dog and hence the issues they have. let me know if my thinking is wrong. I love my rescue german shepherd but if she starts to do bad things the only way she will know is if I am firm with her right? I try to not train with treats because what if i don't have treats. She's not an employee I pay with treats is the way I look at it.


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## London's Mom (Aug 19, 2009)

I think you are correct in your assumption. I am a soft-hearted woman who has difficulty acting as an alpha when it comes to training my GSDs. ("too much babying" as my husband tells me.)

Therefore, I have found great guidance from my trainer who is actually training ME more than my dog, London. I have taken him to her since he was 8 weeks old and I still take him to the Intermediate Class every Monday. At the very start, we were not allowed to use treats. Out dogs had to perform the commands for us, not for food. 

The Obedience Classes have really helped me to stay in command of London who is now close to 2 years old and 90 lbs. He is very smart and always challenging me. But he is a good, obedient dog and I will continue to work with him forever. He does enjoy the class and the structure and the socialization (the last 15 minutes of class is play time with a variety of other big dogs.)

Also, I think that the "alpha training" has helped me in other areas of my life as well. I have discovered how to be more assertive in my work and it has paid off.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Well, treats aren't exactly used as 'payment' but as positive reinforcement. They're also used as a lure to get them to do a certain behavior, like a proper heel position for example. Gradually the use of treats in training are phased out and they get to become just that- a treat! We don't allow dogs on carpeting or furniture either so that doesn't sound too strict to me, a dog being a dog doesn't mean they can't learn to control their behavior and learn the rules of the house. Perhaps your wife looks at you first without realizing it and is giving your dog a cue to do the same thing.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Cesar talks in most episodes about this. I'm surprised that in regularly watching the episode you haven't heard him talk about it... He regularly says it's a lack of leadership that is causing the problems. In most cases, it is.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

My dog does the same thing and I am by no means strict. She has simply chosen me as the alpha. My wife is frustrated as is yours for the same reason. However, as the dog gets older she is bonding much more with my wife. Although she still follows me everywhere, every once in a while she will get up and go to where my wife is and stay with her. She is also minding both of us more equally. 
My last dog was more attached to me and I think it is because when she was growing up my wife was busier and less inclined to spend time focusing on the dog. I am a dog lover and play with them a lot, my wife is more into her own priorities .... so the dog goes where the fun is.


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## Stevensondrive (Jul 20, 2010)

I love watching his show. He doesn't hide the fact that he loves Pit Bulls and his favorite dog is Daddy. I really wish he would spend more time with GSD's. 

my wife, bless her heart, commented that GSD's are such good dogs that they don't need any help.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I am glad that you are having such a good time with your dog. There are a couple of things in your post that I would like to comment on.

1. I agree that clear leadership is important for any dog, particularly with a GSD. That does not necessarily mean *forceful* leadership. If people are telling you that you are too strict with your dog, you may want to explore that feedback and see if there is anything that you can improve.

2. IMO much of being a good "leader" for your dog is clear communication. Food rewards help with that communication. Many people have the misconception that if you use food, you will always have to use food. This is not true. The food reward is simply to "mark" for the dog what behavior you want them to have. Once they understand, you ween out the food reward. If you watch obedience, Rally, agility, or SchH competitions you will never see food or toys in the competition yet the dogs do some amazing things. I will guarantee you that 99% of the dogs were trained with food or toy. It sounds like you have a very biddable dog and that is great to use that in her training, but don't discount the advantages of other methods as well.

3. Your dog looking to you for permission, I think has more to do with her being a GSD than you being "the boss". I heard many people talk about this behavior from their GSD. Mine is the same way. I am the one that feeds him, plays with him, trains him, takes him for walks... When my husband asks him to do something, he often looks at me to see if he has to.  I had a trainer once tell me this is bad and that it is because I "spoil" him. I don't think so. I think it is because he is biddable and he is used to me being the one to command him. Why SHOULD he listen to someone else?

4. You asked "if she starts to do bad things the only way she will know is if I am firm with her right?" This is only partially true. Yes, she needs to understand boundaries, but she also needs to understand what is the right thing to do. Think about how you train your people to be good sales people. Is it only telling them what they do wrong? You probably have them go to sales training where they teach them right way to do things, you might set up a mentor for them... You said that she is not your employee, but in a way she is. GSDs NEED a job. Her job is to be your dog and to follow the house rules. Why shouldn't she be rewarded for that? How happy do you think your sales people would be if they didn't get paid and you just told them what they did wrong?


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I have to agree with Ruthie, she has some great suggestions. Also who feeds the dog, you or your wife. Has your wife ever done any training with the dog? It might be fun for her to take a class with the dog.


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

I love watching Dog Whisperer. I notice though that most of his clients are people who "humanize" there dogs. In other words, treat them like a human and not dog. I always love when the clients have that "a-ha" moment, like the bulb finally turned on in there head. lol. "Oh, so its no ok to pet Fluffy and talk to him in a loving voice while he's trying to go for the neighbors throat?" lol


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

The dogs here sleep on furniture (or in the bathtub, as one likes to do) and , where ever please and are all trained with treat and toy rewards. Yet, we have none of the so-called "dominance related behaviors". The biggest reason people have behavior issues with their dogs is because they aren't consistent in their expectations or training. Too often owners expect their dog to grow up to be Lassie with little effort on their part.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I agree with AligeGSD. I have meet several owners of goldens who say that they do not have to train them because they train themselves. They do not out in any effort and then blame the dog.

I've seen many weak leaders on my walks, but have only seen a handful of strong leaders. If the weak ones are letting their dogs act that way in public I really have to wonder about how they behave in the home.

Everyone of the Dog whispers show address weak leadership issues in at least one of the cases.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

x3 for AgileGSD. I've always been guilty of the things you're not supposed to do with dogs, play tug, let them walk through the door first, go up on the furniture, sleep in our bed (except these last two), etc and none have ever had dominance or other behavior issues. They've even allowed children to take food away from them. My last boxer even took one treat and put it in our guest's baby's carrier :wub:
Both of our dogs whine and beg to go up on the furniture but will never go up on their own. I have no idea why, these are my first lab and GSD and I too think they just train themselves. 
I don't bank too much on always blaming the owner for a poorly behaved dog, not every dog is the same and sometimes they're just not a good match. Some people can't deal with a high drive dog and there's no amount of leadership and strictness that will lower the dog's drive.
If you watch the show closely, some dogs wear a bandana at the end... I wonder what kind of strong personality and leadership is under that bandana


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i train with soft hands and spoken word. a correction is taught like anything else. if you use hard corrections then that's what your
dog responds to or cowards away from. my corrections are verbal.
no, eh-eh, stop that, no Loki, leave it, hey, etc. my physical correction
is: i hold my dog by some neck fur and use a firm voice. when i say firm
voice it be a decimal or two above my speaking voice. i never worry
about or act at being alpha. my dog does what i ask and i do what he asks. if he has to go out before his normal time he'll nudge me, stand near the door or sit in front of me and whine. it he wants a treat
he'll seat near the treat jar. if he nears the table when we're eating
we can say "back up" or "go to your bed" or "you can't have this"
and he backs of. sometimes i do feed him from the table. i think a lot of times when people make sure they're Alpha they're doing that for them.
i think the dog will respond without a person making sure they
secure their position as Alpha.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i always play tug with my dog, i find it easier to hold the door open
and let the dog through first (going inside or outside), my dog is allowed
on the funiture and he sleeps in our bed. most times we feed the dog first.
all of my dogs have been treated the same way and i've never had a dominance issue. i think through training, socializing, feeding
and the natural occurence of bonding dominance issues are
at a low. when your dog isn't doing what you want
you have to ask yourself "what am i doing wrong". i think
i read that on this forum.



Jax's Mom said:


> x3 for AgileGSD. I've always been guilty of the things you're not supposed to do with dogs, play tug, let them walk through the door first, go up on the furniture, sleep in our bed (except these last two), etc and none have ever had dominance or other behavior issues. They've even allowed children to take food away from them.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

is it a weak owner or no consistency in training and socializing?



Caledon said:


> I agree with AligeGSD. I have meet several owners of goldens who say that they do not have to train them because they train themselves. They do not out in any effort and then blame the dog.
> 
> I've seen many weak leaders on my walks, but have only seen a handful of strong leaders. If the weak ones are letting their dogs act that way in public I really have to wonder about how they behave in the home.
> 
> Everyone of the Dog whispers show address weak leadership issues in at least one of the cases.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

"Everyone of the Dog whispers show address weak leadership issues in at least one of the cases."
Can't say that I agree with the above.

Some of the dogs come to strong (good) leaders with problems they are not trained or equipped
to handle. I am sure that a good percentage of people using this site who ask for advice are
not necessarily 'weak'.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

doggiedad said:


> is it a weak owner or no consistency in training and socializing?


 IMO most behavior issues are due to lack of consistency in training, general lack of training, lack of proper early training and socialization and/or lack of proper management/outlets of normal behavior. Most things we consider to be behavior problems or which are labeled "dominance problems" are normal dog behaviors that people just don't care for.

I used to do "behavior night" at a local shelter where I gave free behavior help to people who called the shelter with dogs who they were having problems with. Often these were dogs on their way to the shelter or on their way back, if the problems couldn't be fixed. In every one of these cases, the owners did no training. The "major behavior problems" they had, which they thought they'd have to give their dog up over were more often than not easily solved with consistency and management. Their dogs jumped, pulled on leash, chewed, weren't social enough, stole food, resource guarded, etc. Many of these people opted to keep their dogs and were surprised that the dog's behavior could change so easily. They really thought they just gotten "bad dog".


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> The dogs here sleep on furniture (or in the bathtub, as one likes to do) and , where ever please and are all trained with treat and toy rewards. Yet, we have none of the so-called "dominance related behaviors". The biggest reason people have behavior issues with their dogs is because they aren't consistent in their expectations or training. Too often owners expect their dog to grow up to be Lassie with little effort on their part.


A lot of what the dog grows up to be is genetics based as well as how they are treated and trained.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> i always play tug with my dog, i find it easier to hold the door open
> and let the dog through first (going inside or outside), my dog is allowed
> on the funiture and he sleeps in our bed. most times we feed the dog first.
> all of my dogs have been treated the same way and i've never had a dominance issue. i think through training, socializing, feeding
> ...



Very well put DoggieDad!

I like the way you treat your dogs.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I think it is more a lack of clear "rules" for the dogs (as well as lack of training.)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Its me or the dog and the dog whisperer both show people who are like the croud Jerry Springer or Geraldo find -- the bottom of the barrel.

Come on, who in their right mind allows dog crap on the floor, to stay on the floor, and does not bother to house train the dog. Or lets the dog insist on getting fed at the table??? 

Yes there are weak people. People who tell their kids or dogs to do something, are completely ignored, and NEVER follow through. Or, they blow their top one time in thirty or forty, and have kids or dogs totally bewildered and a little afraid.


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

Well, seeing as how the shows are pretty successful (JS & GR included)... I'd show there are a lot of people not "in their right mind"! 

It always amazes me when I give a solution to a "behavior problem" to a client that is relatively simple and they are amazed they didn't think of it because it is so simple. So, just because it comes naturally to some of us, it doesn't mean that the owner that didn't think training their dog was possible is crazy or lazy or whatever. 

I really don't think Victoria or Cesar go for the JS/GR citizens. I see Victoria (I don't have NatGeo so can't watch Cesar) going to help people with their dogs, with all sorts of doggie behaviors that aren't appropriate when living with us. I think it is great that they are recognizing the fact they need help! So many others would just take the dogs to the pound or put the dog down themselves. Now THOSE people are more like "bottom of the barrel" types to me


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Another thing to keep in mind is that that these shows are not totally "reality" - things are exaggerated or played up for the purpose of TV. On another forum I'm on someone lived in an area where they were looking for people for VS's show. This person does stuff with her dogs but has one with dog aggression issues, so she applied. She was told they were looking for people who's dog's issues have divided the family, so they would need to "play up" that end so to speak. The person's BF wasn't even willing to participate, so the show wasn't interested. These shows are looking for specific stuff that makes good TV and the people involved have to be willing to "play up" whatever the producers ask them to. I would say on any given show what you are seeing is likely only half true. The rest is being exaggerated or edited to make it seem more outrageous. When I have watched these shows, at times I have gotten distracted by the odd editing. It's obvious some of the things being said are out of context with quick back and forth camera cuts during discussions.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Achielles UD said:


> It always amazes me when I give a solution to a "behavior problem" to a client that is relatively simple and they are amazed they didn't think of it because it is so simple. So, just because it comes naturally to some of us, it doesn't mean that the owner that didn't think training their dog was possible is crazy or lazy or whatever.


So true. I'm far from a expert, but in the past 10 years I've taken over a dozen classes with 4 different dogs, I've read several dozen books, watched TV shows and online videos, read training articles online, participated in discussions here and on other forums, and what I've learned can be boiled down to some pretty simple, basic concepts. That does not mean that it's always EASY! But there is a logic to dog training once you start trying to think of it from the dog's perspective rather than a human one, and I think that's the biggest leap that many people don't initially know how to make. Once they do, there's that "d'oh!" slap on the forehead moment where it all makes perfect sense. I think Jean Donaldson and Patricia McConnell's books have been some of the best for giving me that perspective. Once you have it, often the fix is fairly simple and obvious.

But even if you "get" the general concepts of dog training, it's not always easy to figure out a good solution to your training challenges without some help from an expert.


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## Olivers mama (Oct 13, 2010)

But then we're back to the premise of, How Do You Find A Good Trainer? After my experiences, I seriously doubt I'll hire anyone thru the Basic Obedience. They're not going to get the chance to waste Ziva's time, my money, or worse yet - more physical pain inflicted upon her.

IMO - I prefer Victoria's methods to Cesar's, at least for the Basics. Ziva has been neglected (1st trainer) & abused (2nd trainer) enough. We have made lots of head-way using the positive reinforcement method. I would prefer to have "professional" help with some of her behaviors, but I'll wing it for now.

Becky


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sounds like you are all set then.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

silvergts1998 said:


> I actually love watching the Dog Whisperer and know he is controversial trainer with some other trainers but all I know is he knows more than me.
> 
> Anyways..I see many of the people who ask for his help and notice that they seem to be kind of weak personalities. (Not weak in the sense of a bad person or lazy)


The problem is IMO not their personalities but their follow through. A lot of the people don't give their dogs clear rules, or they give rules but they don't always enforce them-- such as SOMETIMES the dog is allowed on the couch, other times it's a no-no. They may also not be consistent with training. These things make for out of control dogs who don't listen and don't follow the rules (often because they don't really know what the rules are. I think a lot of what is attributed to "dominance" issues is really just a dog who has never been trained consistently or taught consistent rules.


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## fatmit1 (Nov 1, 2010)

My mom gets frustrated because Titan ignores her, I'm really working with him to actualy show respect to other people than me. the problem is that the other members of my family aren't involved in his training, they just give hime treats or pet him, or get jumped all over and mouthed and don't do anything. I've actualy gotten a little sick of the "why isn't he trained?" question always popping up... He IS trained, just not for people who haven't ever asked anything of him, I imagine that could be similer to the OP's problem.


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## ShepherdsField (Jan 30, 2010)

I totally agree with your post. And I think career and personality have a lot to do with it. I am a 'boss' with a large number of employees, so I have that kind of in charge, in control personality and am 'boss' with my dogs. You have to be. People with submissive, laid back personalities are usually the ones with problems with their dogs if they don't take charge. Esp. with shepherds, if you don't take charge, they will and then you have a problem. And that problem could cost the owner a lot of money, or even the life of the dog, if it is not trained and given boundaries. Letting a dog be a dog is NEVER a good idea. Dogs are animals. To live in a human world, they have to be taught. It does not come natural. Letting them be a dog, to me, means letting them run wild, tear up what they will, soil what they will, behave how they wish. I looovvveee dogs. I adore my dogs, spend half my money and time on them, now that my kids are grown and I would Never think of letting one of my dogs 'be a dog' in that sense. 

I have a total of 8 dogs, and never thought I'd hear myself say that. I thought 5 was a challenge. But we have taken in 3 pound puppies. We actually saved 4, and my MIL has her. They have to have structure, training, limits and love. And a great deal of all of it. If I hadn't spent so much time and effort training my older dogs, it would be impossible to deal with 3 new pups at the same time. One is 7 months, one is 5 months and one is about 16 weeks. The 5 month old is the one we have had the longest and we have already started her on training toward being a working dog. The fuzzball is just a darling and smart as a whip, but the 7 month old is a GSD and was an abused little girl with fear issues. She is coming along, but is the biggest challenge. She had some training at some point because she knew sit, down and was housetrained, but one minute she is playing like she is having the time of her life and the next she is cowering in a corner. She doesn't like rap music and we had to change her original name, because she gives anyone who says it a look of fear. My daughter had her stereo on in another room and the Rhianna/Eminem song was playing and as soon as M started his part she took off and was hiding behind the recliner. Who knows what this girl has been through. We are taking it easy and patient with her, but this does not mean we can let her do whatever she wishes. There are rooms our dogs are not allowed in and she must learn that. Eventually she will work her way outside, but it will not be soon. Every dog, and especially GSD's and other working dogs, must have structure, rules and training or the owner is asking for trouble.


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## ShepherdsField (Jan 30, 2010)

AgileGSD said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is that that these shows are not totally "reality" - things are exaggerated or played up for the purpose of TV. On another forum I'm on someone lived in an area where they were looking for people for VS's show. This person does stuff with her dogs but has one with dog aggression issues, so she applied. She was told they were looking for people who's dog's issues have divided the family, so they would need to "play up" that end so to speak. The person's BF wasn't even willing to participate, so the show wasn't interested. These shows are looking for specific stuff that makes good TV and the people involved have to be willing to "play up" whatever the producers ask them to. I would say on any given show what you are seeing is likely only half true. The rest is being exaggerated or edited to make it seem more outrageous. When I have watched these shows, at times I have gotten distracted by the odd editing. It's obvious some of the things being said are out of context with quick back and forth camera cuts during discussions.


 
As a person who has been on a reality TV show, you are correct. While there was not a script, and at times you were allowed to ad lib, there was also alot of directing and editorial control for entertainment value. All down moments were gone. Walking the same track 20 times while the cameras got everything right and got you from different angles. Having you repeat what you just said, but 'let's keep this part, that was good, but can you say this instead of that' etc. Imagine putting animals into that mix.


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

My two cents - raising kids, raising dogs - the goal is to have happy, healthy, well-balanced, well-behaved, productive members of society. The rest is gravy (ha! doggie pun! - didn't say it was a good one  )

What I expect is my dog to come when called, sit when told, stay when commanded, not jump on strangers, have a friendly regard for strangers and other animals, and anything else that will make her a productive member of our "society". 

Just like my kids, it's up to me to teach her. To show her - WITHOUT violence of any kind (didn't smack my kids either) - what is acceptable and what is not. 

Consistent and fair are my watch words these days. She'll learn because I will show her over and over until she "gets it" and then we'll continue to reinforce throughout her life. 

My kids are grown and ARE what we wanted them to be (see above). 

We did the same thing with our former (now deceased) dog and he was wonderful. 

What's also wonderful is reading people's stories here, what they do, how they solve things. So glad I found this forum!


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