# I might sound stupid but what's the difference ??



## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

What's the difference between show line and working line dogs ? And which one do you prefer ? I'm just looking to gain more knowledge


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

There are an enormous amount of threads on this topic. Have you done a forum search?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I don't think it's a stupid question myself?? My preference is for the WL dogs because that's what I have.

But like a few topics here ... SL dogs seem to bring out the haters?? And ...so it goes, maybe this time will be different??


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> There are an enormous amount of threads on this topic. Have you done a forum search?


No because I like to interact in the conversation myself. I might have a question to ask as we proceed.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> There are an enormous amount of threads on this topic. Have you done a forum search?


I haven't, search only works for me in "incognito" mode for some reason??

But I'll give it a shot.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I don't think it's a stupid question myself?? My preference is for the WL dogs because that's what I have.
> 
> But like a few topics here ... SL dogs seem to bring out the haters?? And ...so it goes, maybe this time will be different??


I was looking at different breeders in my state; I didn't see many WL breeders. I seen a lot of SL breeders. Then I got the thinking, what is the difference between the two. I really love how the WL looks. They have really grown on me over time


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I don't think it's a stupid question myself?? My preference is for the WL dogs because that's what I have.
> 
> But like a few topics here ... SL dogs seem to bring out the haters?? And ...so it goes, maybe this time will be different??


Haters?


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Chip18 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think it's a stupid question myself?? My preference is for the WL dogs because that's what I have.
> ...


Positive response please


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Positive response please


Not a stupid question at all. In fact, a little complicated. I did post a really stupid question here about a year ago. I had done a little reading on working and show lines and got into a conversation with another newbie about "wouldn't it be great if the best of both could be bred thru time to produce a dog that could perform equally well in the working arena as well as the show ring"? I still wonder about that but wouldn't bring it up again. It did nothing but upset people who own both different types. There appears to be very strong differences of opinion on lines. I seems to just be a matter of preference. 

It will be interesting to see what responses you get to your post. Good Luck


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

voila! (Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

I started with a WL - loved everything about her, next was a WGSL who was/is one of the most beautiful dogs I've ever seen... smart too but not nearly as solid as the little WL dog I have now. it's hard to state a preference. as a second dog Tilden was perfect and what I needed in my life at the time.... my goals in training have changed since I got him and Keystone has fulfilled those and more. he takes training very seriously and has fun while he's doing it. Tilden is pretty goofy and progresses at a much slower rate if you compared their sessions side by side. I was once obsessed with black and red long coats - never thought I'd change my mind but give me something small quick and sable now and I'm all over it.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > Positive response please
> ...


So breeding working and show together is a bad thing ?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

ILoveBella478 said:


> So breeding working and show together is a bad thing ?


It was when I posed the question about the future. There was a feeling that attempts to do this would "lessen" or "degrade" the lines into being something lesser than they currently are. Also, you would need to get the judges for each discipline on board to agree to the changes.

My dog is a mix of lines but it does not matter to me as I never intended to have her for show or work - just pet, and she's perfect for me.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Positive response please


Why are you addressing my comment? I was not the one calling people haters.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

ILoveBella478 said:


> No because I like to interact in the conversation myself. I might have a question to ask as we proceed.


Yes, but you can do that on the threads you find. They're not "read only".  

Sometimes if people have already posted on a topic numerous times before they are less inclined to do it all over again, which is why people suggest doing a search to look up previous threads. If you read an interesting thread and have some questions, feel free to add a post, which will bump the thread back up to active topics. 

There's just no reason to have dozens of threads on the exact same topic. :shrug:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Fodder said:


> voila! (Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )


Hey I use that site all the time! "Rank Drive issues ... fit my guy to a T!

Lack of "proper" management ...live and learn! 

I threw out the term haters ..no one in mind. Man I always throw "something" out there??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yes, but you can do that on the threads you find. They're not "read only".
> 
> Sometimes if people have already posted on a topic numerous times before they are less inclined to do it all over again, which is why people suggest doing a search to look up previous threads. If you read an interesting thread and have some questions, feel free to add a post, which will bump the thread back up to active topics.
> 
> There's just no reason to have dozens of threads on the exact same topic. :shrug:


 That does make sense but at the same time ...when "someone" does that "someone" always says "it's an old thread!"


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Chip18 said:


> That does make sense but at the same time ...when "someone" does that "someone" always says "it's an old thread!"


Not about that kind of discussion usually.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

ILoveBella478 said:


> What's the difference between show line and working line dogs ? And which one do you prefer ? I'm just looking to gain more knowledge


This is not a stupid question at all. Very briefly and in a nutshell, a working line (WL) dog has the qualities, drives and temperament it takes to excel in police work, military work, protection work, SAR (search and rescue) work and similar types of work. It has to have good physical structure, stamina and courage. WL are normally very high energy dogs.

A show line (SL) dog conforms to certain standards (height, weight, color, ear formation, etc., etc., (essentially physical characteristics), set by the AKC and known as conformation. They have different temperaments and much lower drives. Both lines can compete in obedience, agility and other dog sports.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

MythicMut said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > What's the difference between show line and working line dogs ? And which one do you prefer ? I'm just looking to gain more knowledge
> ...



Ahhhh ok so I found this breeder. They have beautiful coat and they're working lines but the only thing is his boys are 90LBS and higher is that horrible breeding for a WL?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Ahhhh ok so I found this breeder. They have beautiful coat and they're working lines but the only thing is his boys are 90LBS and higher is that horrible breeding for a WL?



There is so much more to look for than weight and size in any dog. Many working line makes are 90 lbs. The problems arise when a breeder is purposely breeding for oversized dogs and forsaking working ability for size. 

I would not discount a breeding from a larger male. As long as everything else was up to my expectations.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Ahhhh ok so I found this breeder. They have beautiful coat and they're working lines but the only thing is his boys are 90LBS and higher is that horrible breeding for a WL?


Not necessarily especially if the dog's bone structure is large but like gsdsar mentioned, if the breeder is purposely breeding for large dogs, he/she may be overlooking other important things such as temperment, drive, stamina, etc. that you will need in a successful WL dog. Did he/she give you the pedigree?


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

MythicMut said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhhh ok so I found this breeder. They have beautiful coat and they're working lines but the only thing is his boys are 90LBS and higher is that horrible breeding for a WL?
> ...


No I really haven't talk to them I could post their website for you guys to see


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

http://www.reedk9.com 

Here's their website it has a lot information provided


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As I understand it, some WL breeders have introduced some show line dogs into their program. I spoke with one about this and he would only cross a show line dog that had solid working ability/drives. He introduced show line dogs because he liked the look and wanted some of that along with the working ability. 
So it is not necessarily apples and oranges.

Now let me confess that I cannot tell anything from looking at a pedigree so what I have is other people's take on this - one who looked at a pedigree and the breeder I spoke to about it.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

This is where I think you would do well to look at some of the previous posts on body type and condition on each line. I know next to nothing but that dog looks overweight and out of condition to me. If you are talking about a "working dog" wouldn't you expect to see one that was in top physical condition? Lean and toned? (just like an athlete).


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

Wellll … this only my personal opinion but this is a site that I would normally pass up. It would make me somewhat nervous. The info given is not that helpful. They seem rather like a BYB. There are people who get a hold of dogs from good lines and become BYBs.

This site mentions” good working line pedigrees” but you can only find the sire and dam for Renegade; It mentions some a couple of well-known working lines but does not connect them to any of the dogs they have; AKC numbers are listed but any dog from pure bred lines can get an AKC number so that does not tell you much; A couple of the dogs look like they could be a little leaner; It doesn't mentioned titles for any of the dogs they have trained and I would think they would want to title at least a couple to add to their reputation. But those are just my thoughts.

Most good breeders will include the dogs full name which includes the kennel name and you should be able to go to one of the links below and enter the name and find their pedigree. Some will even link to it.

working-dog - Dogs, videos, championships, pedigrees, contacts, photos and more 

Pedigree Database (Pedigree Search Link on the Left)


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

MythicMut said:


> This is not a stupid question at all. Very briefly and in a nutshell, a working line (WL) dog has the qualities, drives and temperament it takes to excel in police work, military work, protection work, SAR (search and rescue) work and similar types of work. It has to have good physical structure, stamina and courage. WL are normally very high energy dogs.
> 
> A show line (SL) dog conforms to certain standards (height, weight, color, ear formation, etc., etc., (essentially physical characteristics), set by the AKC and known as conformation. They have different temperaments and much lower drives. Both lines can compete in obedience, agility and other dog sports.


 What dogs compete in the USCA sieger shows? I see working class in there, but I always thought my dog was a show line. My dog is all german lines. I know they do not place well in the AKC typical dog show.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

WGSLs usually compete in the Seiger Shows. They're required to get their IPO levels and to get V's or VA's (based on physical conformation) to breed. I'm not super knowledgable yet but I think they're also supposed to get KKL levels (also based on conformation) in order to be bred. The Seiger Shows test the temperament (IPO-type testing) and conformation.


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## trcy (Mar 1, 2013)

McWeagle said:


> WGSLs usually compete in the Seiger Shows. They're required to get their IPO levels and to get V's or VA's (based on physical conformation) to breed. I'm not super knowledgable yet but I think they're also supposed to get KKL levels (also based on conformation) in order to be bred. The Seiger Shows test the temperament (IPO-type testing) and conformation.



thank you. I forgot the specifics. So mine is a WGSL.


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

No worries! One of mine is a WGSL, too. The other is a mix of lines. They're so similar and yet sooo different! I'm learning as I go!


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Stonevintage said:


> This is where I think you would do well to look at some of the previous posts on body type and condition on each line. I know next to nothing but that dog looks overweight and out of condition to me. If you are talking about a "working dog" wouldn't you expect to see one that was in top physical condition? Lean and toned? (just like an athlete).


Yeah exactly when I saw them I was just curious because they looked pretty big to be WL usually the WL I seen were slim and fit


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

MythicMut said:


> Wellll … this only my personal opinion but this is a site that I would normally pass up. It would make me somewhat nervous. The info given is not that helpful. They seem rather like a BYB. There are people who get a hold of dogs from good lines and become BYBs.
> 
> This site mentions” good working line pedigrees” but you can only find the sire and dam for Renegade; It mentions some a couple of well-known working lines but does not connect them to any of the dogs they have; AKC numbers are listed but any dog from pure bred lines can get an AKC number so that does not tell you much; A couple of the dogs look like they could be a little leaner; It doesn't mentioned titles for any of the dogs they have trained and I would think they would want to title at least a couple to add to their reputation. But those are just my thoughts.
> 
> ...


See I'm new to the shepherd breed. I wouldn't catch what you guys see. I'm glad I posted this because it helps out a lot.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

I have had primarily WL, with some DDR, and a Czech boy right now. One of my rescues was ASL, however, and I loved him just as much as the others, just in a different way. While he was still GSD, think GSD with some Golden thrown in. He was a sweet, mellow boy, big, and I miss him dearly. One difference--I care for my sister who has multiple disabilities and medical problems, and the ASL boy would help her in a passive way, such as allowing her to brace herself on him if she were unsteady. My little Czech boy, however, doesn't have a passive bone in his body. He charges in and wakes me up in the middle of the night if she so much as whimpers in her sleep. He actually saved her from falling through a window a few months ago. I had my back to the two of them, she was looking out the window, when suddenly she started to pass out, falling toward the glass, just inches away. I heard a noise, looked around, and there was my little 57 lb. boy with her gown in his grip, all four feet braced, holding her back from the glass long enough for me to help him keep her up and get her away from the window and into a chair.

The WL can give you a bit more of a challenge in training, but both are loyal, wonderful friends.

Susan


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> One difference--I care for my sister who has multiple disabilities and medical problems, and the ASL boy would help her in a passive way, such as allowing her to brace herself on him if she were unsteady. My little Czech boy, however, doesn't have a passive bone in his body. He charges in and wakes me up in the middle of the night if she so much as whimpers in her sleep. He actually saved her from falling through a window a few months ago. I had my back to the two of them, she was looking out the window, when suddenly she started to pass out, falling toward the glass, just inches away. I heard a noise, looked around, and there was my little 57 lb. boy with her gown in his grip, all four feet braced, holding her back from the glass long enough for me to help him keep her up and get her away from the window and into a chair.
> 
> Amazing


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> I have had primarily WL, with some DDR, and a Czech boy right now. One of my rescues was ASL, however, and I loved him just as much as the others, just in a different way. While he was still GSD, think GSD with some Golden thrown in. He was a sweet, mellow boy, big, and I miss him dearly. One difference--I care for my sister who has multiple disabilities and medical problems, and the ASL boy would help her in a passive way, such as allowing her to brace herself on him if she were unsteady. My little Czech boy, however, doesn't have a passive bone in his body. He charges in and wakes me up in the middle of the night if she so much as whimpers in her sleep. He actually saved her from falling through a window a few months ago. I had my back to the two of them, she was looking out the window, when suddenly she started to pass out, falling toward the glass, just inches away. I heard a noise, looked around, and there was my little 57 lb. boy with her gown in his grip, all four feet braced, holding her back from the glass long enough for me to help him keep her up and get her away from the window and into a chair.
> 
> The WL can give you a bit more of a challenge in training, but both are loyal, wonderful friends.
> 
> Susan


That's really amazing


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

ILoveBella478 said:


> That's really amazing


Thanks to both you and Stonevintage. He is an amazing boy, especially since he's a rescue who was terribly neglected and abused from the time he was a puppy until he was over a year old. I had what I call my 'heart dog' years ago, but this guy is slowly creeping into that same position... (of course I've loved them all throughout the decades!)

Susan


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My preference is the show line dogs. There are WGSLs which is what I prefer, West German Show Lines; and there are American Lines, and Brithish, and Canadian, and because the Australian government stopped allowing imports for a number of years, the Australian dogs tended to have a flavor of their own as well. Probably every country has dogs that tend to follow certain patterns.

Working line dogs are similar in that different regions have dogs that tend to follow different types. Czech dogs, East German Workling Line, and so forth. 

Working lines tend to fall into various colors, and where you will find the colors the most varied. Most bi-color, sables, and black dogs tend to be from those lines. But they also come in black and tan. On the other hand German Showlines are mostly black and red or black and tan dogs, whites are gone, blacks and bi-colors -- I haven't ever seen any, and sables are really rare. 

Temperament between the types is varied as well, and since I fancy one type, it will only make people angry for me to say what I think about them and what I think about the others, which is unfortunate, because if we could have some real discussion about temperament, then maybe some people wouldn't be over their heads, over or under-matched when they get a puppy. But, the board tends to be predominantly one way, and the moment you mention your observations about temperament, there becomes a big argument. 

All the rest of it REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. The main thing with the breed is finding the temperament that you want in a dog and everything else falls into place. There are no shortcuts. You have to go out and meet people, meet their dogs, and know what you are looking for, and then you can find a good breeder.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm not sure what I have but if I were to take an educated guess I think Robyn is American and WGSL, Midnite is WL and Apollo is most likely mixed American and WGSL(it's hard with him because he has picked up traits from both Robyn and Midnite). Midnite has a very high ball(he has a ball pretty much at all times)and prey drive but at the same time he has great impulse control and an off switch. He has found numerous injured animals and did no more then indicate. He recently alerted me to my cat that had died. He LOVES kids and when they are over I never see him, he is with them always. Robyn and Apollo have med to high drives, both of them can be more temperamental then Midnite. He just kinda walks away and picks his battles. Robyn and Apollo love kids too but not like Midnite. 

I'm open to any line really. I completely love the breed in general. No matter what line they are loyal, alert and great companions. I can't complain about any of them, they are just great dogs and I enjoy each of them as a group and individually. I would eventually like a black/red WGSL and a sable. Those sables are growing on me


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

llombardo said:


> I'm not sure what I have but if I were to take an educated guess I think Robyn is American and WGSL, Midnite is WL and Apollo is most likely mixed American and WGSL(it's hard with him because he has picked up traits from both Robyn and Midnite). Midnite has a very high ball(he has a ball pretty much at all times)and prey drive but at the same time he has great impulse control and an off switch. He has found numerous injured animals and did no more then indicate. He recently alerted me to my cat that had died. He LOVES kids and when they are over I never see him, he is with them always. Robyn and Apollo have med to high drives, both of them can be more temperamental then Midnite. He just kinda walks away and picks his battles. Robyn and Apollo love kids too but not like Midnite.
> 
> I'm open to any line really. I completely love the breed in general. No matter what line they are loyal, alert and great companions. I can't complain about any of them, they are just great dogs and I enjoy each of them as a group and individually. I would eventually like a black/red WGSL and a sable. Those sables are growing on me


I'm very picky on what I want now but I don't know where to get it. I want a nice size boy built pretty muscular between 80-90 pounds. I'll take a straight back (just my preference) I think it looks better in my opinion. Either sable or Black and Tan, with solid nerves and high drives.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ILoveBella478 said:


> I'm very picky on what I want now but I don't know where to get it. I want a nice size boy built pretty muscular between 80-90 pounds. I'll take a straight back (just my preference) I think it looks better in my opinion. Either sable or Black and Tan, with solid nerves and high drives.


You describe Midnite. He was a lot bigger but I put him on a diet. He got up to 100 pounds, now he stays at about 82-85. He is a solid dog, couldn't be happier with him. He was on sale at the shelter for $99, deal of the century


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

llombardo said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very picky on what I want now but I don't know where to get it. I want a nice size boy built pretty muscular between 80-90 pounds. I'll take a straight back (just my preference) I think it looks better in my opinion. Either sable or Black and Tan, with solid nerves and high drives.
> ...


I swear I meet so many people who adopt shepherds from a shelter; and their dogs turns out to be everything I want in a shepherd. This happened to me in the past three months 4 times ! Please don't hesitate to share pictures


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ILoveBella478 said:


> I swear I meet so many people who adopt shepherds from a shelter; and their dogs turns out to be everything I want in a shepherd. This happened to me in the past three months 4 times ! Please don't hesitate to share pictures


I love this picture of him


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Anything for his ball...


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

He's literally perfect !


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ILoveBella478 said:


> He's literally perfect !


I agree. He was super close to being put to sleep. I did not like his looks(they grew on me and now I think he is stunning), but his temperament when I met him the first time was out of this world. I knew it immediately. It took a week to get him out of the shelter because they insisted he wasn't on the floor. The front desk didn't know they moved him from the sick room to the main floor--it was a mess. I spent a week arguing with them and praying they didn't destroy him. I knew I had to have him...



This is where he spends his time when the kids(nieces/nephew)are over


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## srfwheat (Apr 12, 2013)

He is a most handsome German Shepherd!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

srfwheat said:


> He is a most handsome German Shepherd!


Thank you.

This one was found on the side of the road at about 10 weeks of age(dumped). 
They are out there all over the place Every time I started talking to a breeder about a pup another one came along that turned into a rescue--thankfully the breeder understood and we joke about it.


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## srfwheat (Apr 12, 2013)

Another beautiful dog! Thank the Lord you rescued them. German Shepherds are so intelligent. They are smarter than some humans that I've dealt with! *For real*


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> My preference is the show line dogs. There are WGSLs which is what I prefer, West German Show Lines; and there are American Lines, and Brithish, and Canadian, and because the Australian government stopped allowing imports for a number of years, the Australian dogs tended to have a flavor of their own as well. Probably every country has dogs that tend to follow certain patterns.
> 
> Working line dogs are similar in that different regions have dogs that tend to follow different types. Czech dogs, East German Workling Line, and so forth.
> 
> ...


I would LOVE to know! But mine's a cross (American and German show line), so if you spoke to pros and cons of those two line types, I don't think I'd have room to get offended.  I don't pretend to be knowledgeable enough to understand all the ins and outs, but I do know I really like my dog's confident, relatively even keeled personality.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm sure people can give you a million and one conflicting opinions on what they think the differences are. The best way to learn....is to see it. Find a couple of clubs. You'll probably find USCA clubs are predominantly WL. GSDCA clubs probably have more WGSL's.

If you want ASL's then you need to find AKC clubs. 

BTW...AKC did not determine the standard for German Shepherds. The Germans did. The difference is in the interpretation.


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## tinadillon (Oct 7, 2015)

I agree with mythicmutt. Reedk9 is DEF a breeder I would pass on!. The website is littered with spelling mistakes and none of the dogs have their full kennel names/provenance to trace history/breeding/achievements. Look like byb trying to make money to me too.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I had a blanket black and tan working line from Belgium. Was trained in police work. Great dog. Solid solid nerves. He had a very calm demeanor and was very mature and disciplined. We had 3 cats that he acted as if they did not exist. He was not affectionate and liked his own space but had a sweet side. Incredibly confident. Had a very strong prey drive that never diminished even though arthritis had taking over. He lived till 12. I would go anywhere with him and feel safe. I always wanted a dog like him. The timing was right such a cool dog. We now have a sable asl he is 11 months and a big big goof ball. Incredible with kids a big mush-very affectionate. Has a high prey drive. He has a great sense of smell, he can find my kids anywhere. Incredibly incredibly smart. He is a great watch dog. Tons of energy.He is dog reactive.


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