# 9 mo female dog/fear aggression at dog friendly complex...



## BostonChowder (Nov 28, 2016)

I'm new to this forum and am looking for advice regarding dog aggression and fear aggression. We have a 9 month old, female GSD named Maya whose dog aggression is escalating such that she has attacked two dogs at our complex. 

*History: *We bought her from a breeder and took her home when she was 3 months old. She was in a board and train program and came to us knowing sit, down, come, wait, and was crate trained. She's a very submissive dog and is not very vocal.

*History incident #1: *We stupidly took her to a Petsmart "puppy socialization" class (when she was 3 months old) in which there was only one other puppy there at the time, a 6 month old Boston Terrier. Although the terrier was barking at Maya, Maya just ignored the other dog. One lesson, the Petsmart trainer took Maya from us to introduce her to the terrier. The terrier was barking at Maya furiously and when the trainer got close, the terrier bit Maya's muzzle and wouldn't let go causing two puncture wounds. From that incident on, Maya would hackle and bark at the terrier. 

*History incident #2: *We live in a complex which has stairs and an elevator. When we took the elevator one day when she was 3 months old, the elevator door opened and a 6 month old mini schnauzer ran into the elevator and also bit Maya in the muzzle. Since then, Maya will hackle and bark aggressively at that dog. 

Since Maya has been 4 months old, she has been hackling and barking in our hallway, in the elevator, and around our complex at other dogs. She doesn't necessarily have to see the other dog for her anxiety to appear. She just smells the other dogs which is enough (I'm assuming), starts whining, and hackling. She also hackles at dogs she sees on our walks as well. God forbid we meet a yappy dog... Maya's aggression will be full force.

*Training: *We have worked with 2 different trainers since she was 4 months old. Most recently, Maya was e-collar trained. She knows all of her commands that have been paired with the e-collar: come, sit, down, heel, crate, place, sit in motion, down in motion, quiet, free. We use the e-collar on a low-level stim setting to get her attention and keep her below threshold. However, this works less than 50% of the time at our complex in the hallway and elevator. We also use a prong collar and choke collar in the event a physical correction is needed. We event out physical corrections/e-collar with positive training as well. 

*Maya bite incident #1:* We were doing an off-leash training exercise at our complex. Things were going very well until a chihuahua type dog appeared at a distance. Maya bolted towards that dog, ran up to it, the owners picked up the chihuahua and Maya bit/scratched the dog. 

*Maya bite incident #2: *We were in our complex's dog park playing fetch. A beagle type dog appeared on the other side of the fence. Maya hackled and bolted towards the other side of the dog park and barked in a low, continuous tone. Maya kept pushing her paws against the fence and the gate door popped open. Maya bit the beagle repeatedly. 

Maya has a tendency to bolt towards other dogs (not sure to do what) but we've been able to stop her by cranking the e-collar and using continuous stim to stop her in her tracks to come back to us. However, if Maya truly dislikes a dog, level 127 continuous on the e-collar will do nothing. 

At this point, our trainer has recommended Adaptil and our vet has recommended medication to "calm her down." Maya is unpredictable as to which dogs she perceives as a threat. They have been both big and small. Maya does not display aggressive behavior towards all dogs, but many. If the other dog looks at her the wrong way, barks at her, or shows reactive behavior, Maya will react. 

Is Maya's behavior fear aggression? A trainer I consulted with thinks that her behavior is just due to her young age... She hasn't been spayed but right now, we're grabbing at straws because her dog aggression is escalating. Any advice you could provide would be much appreciated. :grin2:


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

No wonder pretty Maya reacts that way l after having been bitten twice by other dogs. I think she needs to have confidence in you that you can protect her from other dogs. Chip18 has some great advice in his posts on this topic and on how to achieve this. Hopefully he will post on this thread. You can also search his past posts or pm him.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

This isn't something that can be solved on an internet forum.Work more with your trainer on the timing of the corrections.If she's already in drive and charging at another dog,the correction is too late and not effective.It will amp her up more.

Keep a long line on her all of the time!If you're alone in a fenced area tie the gate securely.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I would be very leary of spaying her anytime soon... it is fairly common for aggression and anxiety to INCREASE after spays.



> aggressive behavior increased after spaying. This effect was only noted in female dogs ovariohysterectomized before 12 months of age, and that already demonstrated aggression. Female dogs ovariohysteretomized after 12 months of age presented no risk of increased aggression. Hart and Eckstein (1997) point out that female dogs are in a progestational state for two months following an estrus period and spaying them during that time creates a sudden removal of the source of progestins (which tend to have a calming influence on animals). It is proposed that this removal of progesterone may promote irritability or aggression in some individuals.


The Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Canine Behavior | Association of Animal Behavior Professionals

I agree with dogma, this isn't the type of thing a forum alone acan really help with. I'd also be sure to really check out any trainers. Lots of lay people claim to be experts but know jack...

Also keep in mind in many cases, no matter how hard you try, aggression can't be "cured". You may want to atleast start considering what managing would look like for the lifetime of this dog and if it's something you are up to. 

Good luck!


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

She's cute, don't spay until a year old at least. This is a tough one. I don't want to say all hope is lost but one bad incident might mean fear aggression for the rest of her life. That is what I read on Leerburg, they recommend no contact with other dogs at all because you can never predict how the other dog will react. I had a dog like this, she got bullied as a pup by other dogs and she always hated other dogs. She would be friendly with some dogs in the neighborhood but 99% of them she would hate. I saw a video on youtube about a dog like this, what they did was interesting. First they would muzzle the dog to make sure he didn't bite, then they would let him run free in a yard of VERY stable and trained dogs. The dog would interact with these new dogs every day for 2 weeks (there was about 10 other dogs in the yard). So the fear aggressive dog would learn "dog manners" every day little by little. He became more calm and more confident every day and at the end of the 2 weeks he would walk past other dogs and not react. Dogs have a language they speak, all your dog knows at this point is that another dog is there to attack her and she has to fight for her life basically. She needs to learn how to speak dog.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Oh my, poor Mia. She's genuinely afraid and with good reason. The e-collar training is not working because she's being pushed beyond her limits. If you can find a facility that has multiple dogs that can work with her fears, daily, to desensitize her, then maybe? She needs to learn that dogs are not her enemy (even though, twice, they have been), and/or that ignoring dogs is safe and lucrative (good things happen when dogs are ignored).
I think you need a controlled group of dogs (training facility) to begin this.
Best of luck to Mia and you.


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## BostonChowder (Nov 28, 2016)

Thank you all for the advice. Just wanted to provide an update: we sought help from an IPO helper who came to our complex and witnessed Maya's aggression first hand towards a neighbors mini-schnauzer. He was able to correct her behavior with 8 rapid pops with the prong collar and not allowing any forward progression until she was calm. We were actually able to get into the elevator with the schnauzer and not react. We were told by other trainers to actively avoid situations as well as other dogs whereas this helper "confronted" Maya with the situation after correcting her to show her there's nothing to be afraid of. Maya's still reactive towards certain dogs but we have a better way of managing her aggression at this time. Correct, redirect, and reward is what we live by now. We are also starting bite work per suggestion of the helper to give her a good outlet. 

We had a few different IPO trainers look over her pedigree and it seems like there's a dog on the sire's side that is absolutely cuckoo and dog aggressive. Maya may be a bit "touched" upstairs. Ha!
We're all still a work in progress but I have hope.  
The current goal (besides managing Maya's aggression) is to use a prong, a choke collar, an e-collar remote, a clicker, and treat bag at the same time. Wish us luck!:grin2:


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Thank you for the update! I'm glad you're working with a trainer with her.


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## islanddog (Jun 27, 2016)

Yay! Thanks so much for the update. 
So glad you found a great trainer and can move forward with Maya.
Keep us posted--great news is a wonderful read too.


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## BostonChowder (Nov 28, 2016)

I decided to make a video about Maya today and will be documenting her progress as we train! Check it out when you have time!


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## Alpha01 (Sep 21, 2015)

BostonChowder said:


> I decided to make a video about Maya today and will be documenting her progress as we train! Check it out when you have time! https://youtu.be/9yuzOEVkrmQ



Yay, will definitely check it out. Probably I can learn a thing or two as we go a long.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Nice video. I enjoyed it. She looks lovely. Awesome job in sending her out to her crate. One thing: licking her butt is not gross; she is a dog and doesn't have a wash cloth so she uses her tongue like they all do


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