# Why rotate foods or diets?



## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I have read some info regarding changing of foods & diets for your dogs on a regular basis.
What "theories" or nutritional "factual" literature is there, to base this consensus on?
*What reasons or theories have you heard of?

I am considering changing protein sources off and on for my dogs, and I was wondering if anyone else does.....and what is their reasoning behind it.
*We feed EVO Red Meat ( to some dogs)...and I was considering rotating with EVO Turkey/Chicken....
Also....why is there not much info on Nature's Domain?? (Cosco's Grain Free)?....any experiences with it??

I know...lot's of questions!....please indulge me!
Robin


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> I have read some info regarding changing of foods & diets for your dogs on a regular basis.
> What "theories" or nutritional "factual" literature is there, to base this consensus on?
> *What reasons or theories have you heard of?
> 
> ...



Rotation diets are a gimmic and potentially harmful. Changing foods can not only make your dog very picky but can also make your life miserable if the dog is predisposed to allergies. True allergies are allergies to meat proteins.

There is no documented benefit to feeding a variety of proteins or mixing kibbles but it there is proof that the more you expose a dog to different proteins, the fewer options you have down the road.

The key to treating a food allergy is to use a protein the dog has never been exposed to. Also, less than 1% of true allergies have anything to do with grain, with exception of wheat. Wheat gluten can be as bad as chicken or beef.

Stick to what you are feeding. In the unlikely event an allergy develops then switch.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

sable123 said:


> There is no documented benefit to feeding a variety of proteins or mixing kibbles but it there is proof that the more you expose a dog to different proteins, the fewer options you have down the road.


Can you provide that documented proof?


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> Can you provide that documented proof?


Yes but I don't have the data at home. I can assure you that the basis for protein allergies is the same whether you feed chicken, beef, duck, venison, emu or beaver. Even sporadic exposure can make a difference in a dog who's immune system predisposes it to allergies. There are some proteins like menhaden and good ole catfish that don't seem to have this problem because of the way histamine acts.

The OP is using a top but very expensive food made by a very good company. I am sure the scientists there reviewed the amino acid profile. Personally, I would not spend $1.75 lb for any dry dog food.

The other point is that picky dogs are made not born.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Robin,

We feed what works for the dogs, young puppies and retired. And yes, we do rotate a bit, depending on what is going on. Plus, with feeding some RAW, they do get the rotation of fish, chicken, beef, turkey, tripe, etc.

No issues at all with allergies.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

sable123 said:


> Yes but I don't have the data at home.


I look forward to you providing some of the studies you base your claims on.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

There is value in reserving some protein sources in the event of allergies.
A good majority of the raw proponents recommend doing this, and it's a sound practice.
Dogs cannot develop an allergy to things they are never exposed to- allergies typically develop over time, though exposure. 

When a dog develops a food allergy, you determine what the dog is allergic to by feeding a completely novel diet- that is, foods that the dog has NEVER consumed before in it's life. The more foods you've fed, the fewer choices of truly novel foods you have.

With that said, any dog who has been fed the overwhelming majority of commercial kibbles, at any point in it's life, has been exposed to a nearly unknowable selection of proteins. Many lower quality foods contain un-named meat sources, making it impossible to ascertain what the dog has or has not consumed. Knowing that, those dogs must be placed on a form of exotic meat for an elimination diet, because potentially, they've consumed every domestically raised meat available in those kibbles. For those dogs, there's no risk whatsoever involved in a rotational diet, as you aren't exposing them to any new proteins.

For dogs raised on a high quality diet with only named meat sources from weaning to present, you need only limit their diet insomuch as to reserve a few completely novel proteins in the event an elimination diet becomes necessary.

Rotating between beef, chicken and turkey isn't going to create an issue. If the dog hasn't ever encountered lamb or fish, then you've got those available as a novel protein.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I have often read the same, Robin, that one should rotate to different foods. Unless, like Sable 123 pointed out, you are dealing with allergies, it makes sense to me. As in raw feeding, variety is important. I have a hard time believing that regardless of the high quality of a kibble, that it would be a "complete" food, it is so far from the natural "complete" prey that a wild canid would eat. 

Not sure about dogs because my dogs readily eat most anything, but I have found that rotating cat food (canned and dry varieties and brands) with my cats actually keeps them from getting picky - they have a more educated palate, if you will. 

Another thing to consider is digestive health. When faced with a brand-new, never-encountered before food, the body actually has to manufacture the enzymes and chemicals required in the gut to break down that food. When first exposed to something new, it takes two to three days for the body to adjust to the new food, thus the digestive upsets that many dogs experience when first switched to something new, be it a new kibble or raw. That is why when switching over with kibble it helps to just start in small quantities and gradually increase. 

I have read that since kibbles and prepared foods are formulated to be 100% (and I don't believe that anyways), that feeding others things in addition to the kibble will unbalance the diet and cause issues. To me, that is pure hogwash fabricated by the dog food companies to make sure that people stay on the kibble only! How in the world has feeding our dogs become so complicated that people need several degrees in chemistry, biology, development, and medicine to do it "right"? We don't need to consume 100% meals at each sitting, nor do we need to find the perfect foods and eat nothing else! We achieve balance over time, and by eating a variety of foods. 

I know that people will say that dogs are not people, very true, but canids in the wild will take advantage of the main food sources available depending on the season. 

For example, there are a lot of foxes around here. Did you know that come summer, their diets consists heavily of berries and other vegetation? That came as a surprise to me, but during the summer, I come across fox droppings on a daily basis, and indeed, their scats are full of berry seeds and other plant debris. Then come winter, rabbits are their main food source. So their diet balances out over months of different variety. 

So my thoughts are that there is absolutely no harm in switching foods around, and it is a good way to add more variety to the dog's diet and ensure a healthier digestive system that can deal with different ingredients fully and efficiently.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

The foundation of what Sable is saying, is sound. You can only be allergic to that which you are exposed to, and if you expose a dog to a meat, you cannot feed it to him if he becomes allergic.

However, as seems to be his nature, he's applying that fundamental truth in a black and white manner that isn't consistent with reality. Rotating foods is not synonymous with eliminating every possible novel diet.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> There is value in reserving some protein sources in the event of allergies.
> A good majority of the raw proponents recommend doing this, and it's a sound practice.
> Dogs cannot develop an allergy to things they are never exposed to- allergies typically develop over time, though exposure.
> 
> ...


Since there is nothing to gain by rotating red meat with white meat, the most prudent course is not to rotate. Also, you are being logical. Most people that bounce from kibble to kibble feed every brand, formula and protein imaginable just to satisfy themselves.

Note to the OP, I just looked at EVO Red Meat. There are quite a few "novel" proteins in there already, so for you a "novel" protein might be good ole chicken & turkey.

Stick with that food until you (but hopefully never) have a problem.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We have been very fortunate....only 2 dogs that have ever had a "food" intolerance...both were to wheat.
We have tried (over the many years) many dif brands.....EVO is the first "grain free" food we tried, but...we have since tried several....always coming back to EVO.
It has been the best for our dogs so far.....
*This topic really interests me...because I have read so many opinions on the subject.* But I try to rely my judgement(s) on facts or nutritional data.
_Please keep posting..........._
Robin


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Rotating foods is important to prevent excesses and deficiencies in the diet. All processed, commercial food is different and there have been issues where health problems were caused in dogs and cats by the food lacking or having too much of certain things in it. Taurine is a good example. Until the 90s, it wasn't believed that dogs needed taurine in their diet, until the lack of taurine in some foods was linked to heart problems. Had the dogs being fed those foods been on a rotation diet, they may have remained healthy.

Also IME dogs who get more variety in their diet tend to be overall healthier and less prone to stomach issues or being picky. Sensitive stomachs and being picky eaters are actually not "normal" for dogs, who as scavengers should be able to handle eating a wide variety of foods. Lack of variety in the diet does not promote good digestive health by conditioning the digestive tract to only have appropriate enzymes and bacteria to handle a specific type of food.

I believe variety is also good for dogs both for physical health and mental well being. Dogs eating nothing but the same kibble day in and day out for their entire lives would be like you eating nothing but the same cereal for every meal. No wonder some dogs pick at their food! No matter where you stand on the kibble debate, there is no denying that it is a very processed food product. IMO healthy, "real" food should be added on a regular basis. All natural yogurt, eggs, cooked or pureed veggies, meat (cooked or raw), healthy leftovers and the such add something to your dog's diet that kibble can't ever provide - the health benefits of fresh, minimally processed food. 

The issue of too much variety being a problem if dogs develop allergies is an interesting one. Very often, lack of variety is what promotes food allergies in the first place. The dog eats the same thing everyday and eventually develops a sensitivity to it. So in feeding a diet with more variety, you are actually working towards preventing food allergies from starting. However, it is not a bad idea to avoid using exotic meat or avoid a protein or two, say pork and buffalo just in case you ever need to do an allergy elimination diet (requires the dog have a novel protein).


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> We have been very fortunate....only 2 dogs that have ever had a "food" intolerance...both were to wheat.
> We have tried (over the many years) many dif brands.....EVO is the first "grain free" food we tried, but...we have since tried several....always coming back to EVO.
> It has been the best for our dogs so far.....
> *This topic really interests me...because I have read so many opinions on the subject.* But I try to rely my judgement(s) on facts or nutritional data.
> ...


I know a few top nutritionists and they think it is silly. The middle priced foods and higher have more nutrition than any companion animal needs. In my field, I see hunting & trial dogs run for hours with horses in 90 degree heat and they eat the "crappiest" kibbles out there. The cheapest I go is Pro Pac, that food is a real value. In fact the GSD I have in my care looks and acts 100% better on it than what my friend was feeding him.

I have one 14 year old bitch that has eaten Annamaet Ultra from weaning to the present. Same amount, same time, same food.

I picked Pro Pac because when I was breeding I didn't want to use something like Annamaet that was pricey or was hard to get for puppy owners. I know some puppy owners that to this day never changed from Pro Pac.

So back to the topic, rotating is a gimmic. I see all downside.


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

AgileGSD said:


> Rotating foods is important to prevent excesses and deficiencies in the diet. All processed, commercial food is different and there have been issues where health problems were caused in dogs and cats by the food lacking or having too much of certain things in it. Taurine is a good example. Until the 90s, it wasn't believed that dogs needed taurine in their diet, until the lack of taurine in some foods was linked to heart problems. Had the dogs being fed those foods been on a rotation diet, they may have remained healthy.
> 
> Also IME dogs who get more variety in their diet tend to be overall healthier and less prone to stomach issues or being picky. Sensitive stomachs and being picky eaters are actually not "normal" for dogs, who as scavengers should be able to handle eating a wide variety of foods. Lack of variety in the diet does not promote good digestive health by conditioning the digestive tract to only have appropriate enzymes and bacteria to handle a specific type of food.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree, IMO, if the dog is healthy, maintains a healthy weight, shows no signs of alergies or coat problems, solid stools, solid energy levels and is being fed a quality kibble I don't see a reason to change.
You can't compair a dog eating the same thing everyday to a human and if we did then yes I would function just fine eating oatmeal every morning. Just my 2 cents.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi Robin, always nice to see another Evo feeder! Mine do great on Evo, but we like to mix it up and let them have several varieties of the grain-less kibble. The dogs have done well on Acana, and we're soon to try Fromm grain-free, California Naturals grain-free, and Orijen. 

I hear the allergy argument. It probably the safest route if you are worried about allergies.

I think my choice to rotate foods and flavors satisfies my own need to provide a flavorful and interesting diet for my dogs. I don't have any research to back my opinion up, just instinct and the fact that I get a kick out of watching my dogs enjoy their meals. They are both great eaters, so I don't run the risk of them getting picky about food.

I would be interested in seeing links to specific research for either side of the argument.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> Hi Robin, always nice to see another Evo feeder! Mine do great on Evo, but we like to mix it up and let them have several varieties of the grain-less kibble. The dogs have done well on Acana, and we're soon to try Fromm grain-free, California Naturals grain-free, and Orijen.
> 
> I hear the allergy argument. It probably the safest route if you are worried about allergies.
> 
> ...


You said exactly what I was waiting to hear. "Your need" The truth is dogs don't care. LOL

The pet food companies luv this because more often than not people throw away food for no reason just to try something different. That is one reason why, say, Natura has Evo, Innova, Karma and Healthwise under one umbrella.

Innova was plenty for any dog.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Ok, I am in no way a dog food expert but this seems to make sense to me....


SchDDR said:


> Rotating between beef, chicken and turkey isn't going to create an issue. If the dog hasn't ever encountered lamb or fish, then you've got those available as a novel protein.


And even if there is no "documented benefit" to rotating foods, that doesn't mean that in reality there is no benefit. I work in the medical field. SO much of what we do on a regular basis does not have "documented" benefits or risks. Some of what we do is done because 1) it makes sense physiologically, 2) the majority of experienced doctors who have been doing this for 30+ years have witnessed the benefits, and 3) many, many research studies that people use to say they have "documented" benefits or risks are complete bogus. A lot of research studies look nice and pretty at first glance, but if you know what to look for you will find that the results have no merit because they did not conduct the study properly. 

So if you cover your bases in keeping a couple novel proteins in reserve, why wouldn't you rotate foods? In case there might be a benefit. You aren't harming the dog in the long run if you make sure you have new proteins in your arsenal for possible allergies. 



SchDDR said:


> With that said, any dog who has been fed the overwhelming majority of commercial kibbles, at any point in it's life, has been exposed to a nearly unknowable selection of proteins. Many lower quality foods contain un-named meat sources, making it impossible to ascertain what the dog has or has not consumed.


I agree with SchDDR. I really don't trust a lot of dog food companies. Or ingredient lists. Recalls are proof that some stuff not listed on the ingredient list, that shouldn't be in there, do actually end up in the food. So to compensate for possible contamination, or inaccurate ingredient lists, rotating between brands would give you the greatest chance of 1) making sure you dog gets everything he needs and 2) decreasing the chances that you are continually giving him contaminted food. Just my opinion.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Robin, the only forum out there that deals with nutritional facts is K9Kitchen : dog diets raw cooked allergies disease. If you want to know something, that's the best place to go.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i switch my dogs kibble a lot. the last 2 months i've used Orijen.
i have 13 cans of dog food on hand. out of the 13 cans there's 5 different brands. i also feed him salmon in the can (Kosher, no salt, no additives).
i also feed my dog fruit, cooked chicken, raw ground beef, organic yogurt,
raw egg, rice, quinoa. i switch the kibble and can food often because
i read somewhere that the nutritional value may differ from brand to brand
so i mix it up for him. besides, i think feeding the same thing everyday
most be boring. i don't know if my dog finds it that way, .


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i switch my dogs kibble a lot. the last 2 months i've used Orijen.
> i have 13 cans of dog food on hand. out of the 13 cans there's 5 different brands. i also feed him salmon in the can (Kosher, no salt, no additives).
> i also feed my dog fruit, cooked chicken, raw ground beef, organic yogurt,
> raw egg, rice, quinoa. i switch the kibble and can food often because
> ...


Kosher? lol this is taking it to a whole new level!!!! I bet he's glad to know his food was blessed by a Rabbi.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Kashrut is a lot more involved than "blessed by a Rabbi".


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

SchDDR said:


> Kashrut is a lot more involved than "blessed by a Rabbi".


I know....just a joke.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i was just saying what's on the can. it's human food. ROTFL.



Denali Girl said:


> Kosher? lol this is taking it to a whole new level!!!! I bet he's glad to know his food was blessed by a Rabbi.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I rotate. My dogs enjoy it, I've never had a picky eater or had allergy problems. 

It makes sense to me that no kibble is going to be 100% well-rounded so I like to rotate to make sure they're getting variety in the levels of their nutrients and therefore over time it is balanced. 

I have no research to back this up, it just make sense to me. Also, I travel around a lot and like the idea that if some freak thing happened where I didn't have food or whoever was dog-sitting for me ran out and for some reason could not get the "regular" stuff, that my dogs wouldn't get sick eating something else. 

I rotate protein sources, grain-free and non-grain-free and brands. I stick with what I feel is a quality I'm comfortable with and stick with it as long as I feel like and switch when I feel like it. 

I also supplement...


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i see no problem with rotating if you dont do it to such an extent that there are no protein sources available if problems arise.

i love people commenting that dogs dont care if they get to eat a different flavor every once in a while. THAT sound like a human projecting something onto a dog that they really have no proof of.

when i change my dogs food after a couple months, they are all absolutely more interested in the different flavor. that is simply logical.

sure, they can do fine eating the same food forever, as long as it is a quality food...but does that mean we cant add a little enjoyment by changing things up once in a while??

sure, i could eat a perfectly balanced diet by eating the exact same meals day after day, but i enjoy variety and my dogs sure seem to enjoy it too. (and there are several protein sources that i could turn to if i ever needed to)

i dont see why it has to be such an "all or nothing" attitude. it doesn't have to be either never change their food or change it all the time and blow through every protein source on the planet. as with most things, i think there is a happy compromise somewhere in the middle.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

I actually find it somewhat hysterical that Sable is advocating against rotation for the purposes of limited protein sources, and then recommends Abady.

Abady contains as sources of protein: 
Chicken, Fish, Rice, Beef and Pork.

Not exactly limiting protein sources there, are ya?


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## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

It may or may not be prudent, but Royal Canin and Nutro are both owned by Mars, inc. along with Pedigree.


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## Tim Connell (Nov 19, 2010)

I feed all three of my dogs Holistic Select ...I feed the lamb, and the anchovy/sardine 50/50. 2 GSD's and a Malinois. All have thrived on it, keep weight on well, great coats, and have no adverse issues. For all of them, I only have to feed 1 cup am and 1 cup pm. I supplement with NUPRO Silver-which is awesome stuff, Springtime Garlic, and Springtime Omega 3-6-9. 

I mix it up 50/50, and also throw in some random, but good quality other food (kibble and/or raw, along with a raw marrow bone now and then) on a regular basis, just to mix it up. I'm no dog food expert, but have subscribed to that variation of protien source theme...if for nothing more than to give them a little treat now and then...valid or not


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I feed my GSD TOTW and I rotate all 4 formulas. He loves it, he doesn't have any allergies and he isn't a picky eater. I know I wouldn't want to eat the same thing all the time so I switch it up for him. He gets Bison, Salmon, Duck or Lamb.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

AgileGSD said:


> Rotating foods is important to prevent excesses and deficiencies in the diet. All processed, commercial food is different and there have been issues where health problems were caused in dogs and cats by the food lacking or having too much of certain things in it. Taurine is a good example. Until the 90s, it wasn't believed that dogs needed taurine in their diet, until the lack of taurine in some foods was linked to heart problems. Had the dogs being fed those foods been on a rotation diet, they may have remained healthy.


Are you thinking of cats? According to a canine/feline nutritionist I know, dogs do not need taurine. But a deficiency in cats will cause heart conditions as well as vision problems . . . .


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

shannonrae said:


> Are you thinking of cats? According to a canine/feline nutritionist I know, dogs do not need taurine. But a deficiency in cats will cause heart conditions as well as vision problems . . . .


No it can be an issue for dogs as well:
Taurine Supplements are Usually Required in Present Day Dog Diets. | VitaHound


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

Thank you for posting the link! 

"They were able to do this with taurine because it is classified as a “non-essential” amino acid. This means that it does not have to be obtained directly through the dogs diet, the dog (as in humans) can internally manufacture the substance. Taurine can be synthesized by dogs from cysteine in the liver and from methionine elsewhere in the body. There must be, however, sufficient quantities of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) present in the body. Recently however clinical research has shown that very few dogs cannot synthesize the taurine or at least produce enough to satisfy basic dog nutrition needs."

The above info is what i was referring to, the majority of dogs create their own taurine . . . cats cannot, ever.
Also, TriVita it trying to sell supplements for your dog. Even they state that "very few dogs cannot synthesize taurine. This tells me that the dog that needs taurine is the exception rather than the norm.
I wonder if providing too much protein in the diet could cause the dog to stop creating its own?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Actually, sable123 it seems like you need to get up to date on your foods. EVO is now owned by P&G...not exactly what I would call a "good company."

As an FYI for the EVO feeders...we used to give Elsa and EVO/NB mix. This fall she developed her first ear infection. We yanked the EVO and treated the ear infection...it cleared up and her ear's been as clean as ever since then. To me that's all I needed to be convinced that P&G has indeed changed something.

Another thing sable...your premise works ok that no exposure will reduce the chances of allergies. But there are so few true LID foods out there that unless you ARE feeding an LID diet your dog has likely been exposed to a ton of different protein sources. So there is really no harm in giving them some variety and mixing up food types as long as your dog can handle it. Obviously I wouldn't think that 15 different food sources encompasing such proteins such as rabbit and kangaroo are a good idea because you are indeed using up most of your options if an allergy crops up. But something simple such as rotating between beef, chicken, and salmon? Hardly going to do anything bad.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

I posted a thread yesterday about changing foods for Gunnar. We had been feeding Nutro Choice for close to 4 years, never had a problem. About 6 weeks ago, he starting paw licking and ear infections. We are a couple weeks into changing to TOTW Wetlands and have already seen a difference. Was that issue, no idea, but if it works....GREAT. I think a lot of issues could be based on a variety of things. Just a difference between "runs" or batches of foods could be a factor in some cases. Who knows about some of the variety between ingredients in different batches of manufactured food. Anything is possible.
I also think of the dogs I had when I was a kid (40 + years ago) and the variety of kibble they were fed. Tuffy's, some Purina, some stuff from our local feed mill or whatever else happened to be cheap and available at the time. I don't remember sensetivity or allergies being an issues with those dogs. I grew up on a horse farm and we always had 4-5 German Shepherds. They were outside/barn dogs that worked on a daily basis and who knows what they supplemented their diet with.
Could it be the very nature of our animals have changed. Is there is an increase in some of these things because of a breeding practices or are we just more aware of differences because of advances in technology and science. I addition, is it because of the all of the information that is now so easily available on the internet. Not long ago, it would have taken a lot of time and effort for the average pet owner/consumer to obtain the information that you can get in few minutes on the 'net.
I consider myself to an average consumer/pet owner/person - not as smart as some, maybe smarter than some. I still think a lot of it comes down to what works for you and something that seems to missing in a lot of areas lately, COMMON SENSE.
That is just one man's opinion..........maybe I'm an idiot.........LOL


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

GSDElsa....we also had a dog that was eating a food that had "wheat" in it (before we switched completely off that brand of food). She had a bad ear infection start, we treated it for a couple of weeks (no change)...we put her on EVO...and it cleared up and we have not had a problem since. *This was mid August 2010*
So my personal experience was the opposite.....strange huh?
Dog food will make us all crazy at times....:crazy:


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> GSDElsa....we also had a dog that was eating a food that had "wheat" in it (before we switched completely off that brand of food). She had a bad ear infection start, we treated it for a couple of weeks (no change)...we put her on EVO...and it cleared up and we have not had a problem since. *This was mid August 2010*
> So my personal experience was the opposite.....strange huh?
> Dog food will make us all crazy at times....:crazy:


 
It was Sept/Oct when the ear infection developed with us. She had been on the food for over a year when this happened suddenly, what...6 months after EVO got sold to P&G. Coincidence? Perhaps. Developed allergy to random ingredient in it? Perhaps. But I won't go back to it unless I really need to again because it's a company that has a proven track record for ruining food. When they sold I said I'd keep with EVO until I noticed something off...and I did.

Which is too bad because of food sensitivies and my penchant for grain and corn free diets doesn't leave a lot of foods for me to feed. 

But if you're not seeing problems then stick with it. I always tell people to feed what works best for their dog. But I do want people to not be told misinformation about Natura being a great company since Natura no longer exists except as a brand under the arm of a very shady company.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

"Which is too bad because of food sensitivies and my penchant for grain and corn free diets doesn't leave a lot of foods for me to feed"

You should try a catfish-based or menhaden-based kibble.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I am definitely a person who will change foods if & when a need arises.
My loyalty to dog foods is solely based on my personal experiences with it......
If I notice a change in EVO....I would have no problem with switching brands....but as for now...I am completely satisfied on it.
I'm not pro "grain free"...as I also feed Kirkland to my older dogs.....I am "pro" whatever my dogs thrive well on and I can realistically afford.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Denali Girl said:


> You can't compair a dog eating the same thing everyday to a human and if we did then yes I would function just fine eating oatmeal every morning. Just my 2 cents.


I think it's a very valid comparison and there is no evidence that you cannot compare the two. 

It's true that one vitamin mix in a kibble may or may not be better for a dog, and that is a very good reason to rotate, IF the dog's digestive system can handle it. 

I have seen, time and time again, owners have no clue that their dogs aren't "doin' right" and only notice when the food is changed, or antibiotics are started for another reason, etc. I can look at a lot of "healthy" dogs and tell you where they are having problems - never ceases to amaze me that many owners are not able to see this.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

sable123 said:


> The pet food companies luv this because more often than not people throw away food for no reason just to try something different. That is one reason why, say, Natura has Evo, Innova, Karma and Healthwise under one umbrella.
> 
> Innova was plenty for any dog.


I would say there are plenty of reasons.....

LOTS of dogs could not eat Innova because of intolerances. Many dogs do (did) tons better on Evo - I know several senior dogs that have done great with the switch (before they were sold, don't know about now). 

Healthwise isn't to "try something new", but it was a more economical option for folks that couldn't afford foods like Innova or EVO, but didn't want to feed crap. 

Sweeping this all together with the generalities that you paint, shows me that you really don't understand a lot about canine health, yet you do understand a lot about dog food marketing.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

shannonrae said:


> Are you thinking of cats? According to a canine/feline nutritionist I know, dogs do not need taurine. But a deficiency in cats will cause heart conditions as well as vision problems . . . .


I add taurine to my dogs' diets, I think it's an important nutrient. Much like vitamin C, they can produce their own, but how much can they produce, and what happens when they are stressed or fed other proteins. There is evidence that lamb diets should contain additional protein, and breeds of dogs with certain heart conditions need extra taurine in their diets. There are also some seizure dogs that respond very well to added taurine in the diet.

I have seen research for the minimal amount of taurine needed to sustain life for a small number of dogs, I have never seen quality research on multi-breeds for optimal health. Having had a dog with heart disease, and another on a lamb diet, I find it prudent to supplement, and will always check in the future to see the amount of taurine that the diet contains.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> I look forward to you providing some of the studies you base your claims on.


So many experts in one place. How lucky are we?
Other qualities come to mind also.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

LisaT said:


> I can look at a lot of "healthy" dogs and tell you where they are having problems - never ceases to amaze me that many owners are not able to see this.


I agree--that nasty "dog smell" even though the dog is bathed all the time. Gross ears. A coat that is dull or constantly shedding clumps year round. Obvious dandruff. Listless eyes. Yet brag about how well their dog does on Science Diet.

I certainly don't think that there is anything wrong with not rotating (I didn't until recently), but allergies are very complicated. Exposure to an item is only one part of the puzzle. Length of time of exposure (ie one time versus every day) and amount can also play a part in allergy development. The longer a creature has been exposed, the greater the risk of developing an allergy. 

However, this is all very controversial and nothing is 100%. Just look at the debate around the development of the dreaded peanut allergy in children.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

And when you go to RAW, the point is to add one protein at a time.

No issue here, including apples and banana.....


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Do you think that one reason *I* don't have issues with most foods...is because we have also always added real meat, dairy & leftovers to all our dog's meals???
*I speak only for myself...I don't mean as if we are the only ones with no food issues.*


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Justine and Robin, you bring up interesting points about allergies. If we can assume that allergies develop in dogs the same way they do in humans, then rotating foods could actually help prevent allergies. 

When we were kids, my parents didn't let us have pets because my brother had allergies. Now studies are showing that exposure at a young age to allergens will actually lessen the severity of the reaction. If my mom had let us have the cat we so badly wanted, maybe my brother would not have needed weekly allergy shots into his college years.

Does this sound like a viable argument for rotating foods?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

GSDElsa said:


> However, this is all very controversial and nothing is 100%. Just look at the debate around the development of the dreaded peanut allergy in children.


Ugh, my Max has a peanut allergy :crazy:


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Good_Karma said:


> Justine and Robin, you bring up interesting points about allergies. If we can assume that allergies develop in dogs the same way they do in humans, then rotating foods could actually help prevent allergies.
> 
> When we were kids, my parents didn't let us have pets because my brother had allergies. Now studies are showing that exposure at a young age to allergens will actually lessen the severity of the reaction. If my mom had let us have the cat we so badly wanted, maybe my brother would not have needed weekly allergy shots into his college years.
> 
> Does this sound like a viable argument for rotating foods?


Or the value of "local honey" to dogs and humans who suffer from airborne allergies.


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