# Spayed at 4 months, now growling....



## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Our sweet Vesper was spayed when she turned 4 months old. She is now 5 months old. Since her surgery, she has started growling at people when they invade her space. Some examples would be when people come to our home then try to approach her, or if someone approaches the car and tries to reach inside. The vet said that spayed females can become very territorial, but we are wondering if anyone else has any experience with this sort of behavior? Thanks!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

She's a baby who had a surgical procedure very young. Depending on her temperament, possibly traumatizing for her and she is showing fear. Give her space and let her recover. If she isn't comfortable with people in her private space, don't invade it. Work her slowly towards that as a goal. 
It could simply be recovery or you may have to work with her over longer periods to overcome.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Saphire said:


> She's a baby.


I guess I fail to see how that's relevant to the question I asked.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It's not a spay issue its a training issue. She is young, up the training now.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

llombardo said:


> It's not a spay issue its a training issue. She is young, up the training now.


What would you suggest for giving her something to do when people come to the door? And door manners? This is my first gsd, and I just need somewhere to start. She has wonderful leash manners and stays very well. It's just that she goes crazy when people get near her.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

lexiz said:


> I guess I fail to see how that's relevant to the question I asked.


Sorry, I hit post before I was done.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Saphire said:


> Sorry, I hit post before I was done.


Ah, I see. Thank you.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Saphire said:


> She's a baby who had a surgical procedure very young. Depending on her temperament, possibly traumatizing for her and she is showing fear. Give her space and let her recover. If she isn't comfortable with people in her private space, don't invade it. Work her slowly towards that as a goal.
> It could simply be recovery or you may have to work with her over longer periods to overcome.


From what I could tell, her recovery went really well physically. However, she is going through teething right now as well. Could that be another factor?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

For me it sounds like she is fearful. A confident puppy doesn't growl at people when they get too close. She is too young to be protecting you or car. I wouldn't push her into uncomfortable situations where she feels she needs to growl. I would keep people at a distance slowly up her thresholds.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Saphire said:


> For me it sounds like she is fearful. A confident puppy doesn't growl at people when they get too close. She is too young to be protecting you or car. I wouldn't push her into uncomfortable situations where she feels she needs to growl. I would keep people at a distance slowly up her thresholds.


I think this is great advice, but a lot easier said than done. We sometimes have people come by, and today the car situation happened. Some children were looking in through the windows. How can I help her feel more confident? I'm just not sure if I can control when people come around her in certain situations. Does that make sense?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Is she in any puppy classes?


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

llombardo said:


> Is she in any puppy classes?


No, she isn't.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

lexiz said:


> Our sweet Vesper was spayed when she turned 4 months old. She is now 5 months old. Since her surgery, she has started growling at people when they invade her space. Some examples would be when people come to our home then try to approach her, or if someone approaches the car and tries to reach inside. The vet said that spayed females can become very territorial, but we are wondering if anyone else has any experience with this sort of behavior? Thanks!


Spaying can cause aggression in females. There are studies out there. You take away part of their hormones when you spay and it causes an imbalance. 5 months? She's maturing. Other hormones in her body that aren't part of the reproductive system are turning on. So, it is possible there is a connection. Talk to your vet about that and research the hormones vs aggression in females.

BUT, it sound more like a fear reaction. Up your obedience. Work on socializing her. Not but flooding her with people but by creating a good association with people. Person=no growling=reward. Teach her behavior modification techniques like LAT.

But PLEASE! Do not just pass this off as a puppy thing. Stop it now.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Spaying can cause aggression in females. There are studies out there. You take away part of their hormones when you spay and it causes an imbalance. 5 months? She's maturing. Other hormones in her body that aren't part of the reproductive system are turning on. So, it is possible there is a connection. Talk to your vet about that and research the hormones vs aggression in females.
> 
> BUT, it sound more like a fear reaction. Up your obedience. Work on socializing her. Not but flooding her with people but by creating a good association with people. Person=no growling=reward. Teach her behavior modification techniques like LAT.
> 
> But PLEASE! Do not just pass this off as a puppy thing. Stop it now.


Thank you. We are starting a place command tonight paired with quiet. We definitely don't want this to get worse as she grows. Best to nip it in the bud.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LAT worked really well for my girl. Look At That. Look it up. I paired it with a correction when she reacted. Best yet, find a trainer to help you with it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Saphire said:


> For me it sounds like she is fearful. A confident puppy doesn't growl at people when they get too close. She is too young to be protecting you or car. I wouldn't push her into uncomfortable situations where she feels she needs to growl. I would keep people at a distance slowly up her thresholds.


Onyx was this way, she was fine until she was spayed at 6 months...then she became really 'red zone' reactive to vetting, females set her off. I really do think her reactivity was triggered by her spay experience. The vet chose to xray her for HD(I asked them to check for a sliver as she was limping) and then mis-diagnosed her with 'severe HD'...she was suffering from Pano. No HD and the x-rays were really badly positioned. 

Anyway, yes it was fear based aggression, and we manage her temperament, with age she's mellowed and is not forward in the aggression as she was before(it was never a timid/retreat type, but forward bully type aggression).
I would still build confidence, follow some of the Control Unleashed exercises(LAT) and don't over correct, yet manage and show your puppy that you are in control of the world so pup can relax and look to you for direction. My dog thought she needed to control everything, which is alot of stress...strong leadership on the handlers part will help remove that thought.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

SOME animals and SOME people , including a friend of mine, have horrific experience in surgery , under anaesthesia . My friend experienced the temporary paralysis or inability to move that comes with anaesthesia -- but she could feel everything, see everything, hear everything . 
I believe GSD are in a group that experiences this more than other breeds?

Anyone?


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> LAT worked really well for my girl. Look At That. Look it up. I paired it with a correction when she reacted. Best yet, find a trainer to help you with it.


Thank you! I'll look into that.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

carmspack said:


> SOME animals and SOME people , including a friend of mine, have horrific experience in surgery , under anaesthesia . My friend experienced the temporary paralysis or inability to move that comes with anaesthesia -- but she could feel everything, see everything, hear everything .
> I believe GSD are in a group that experiences this more than other breeds?
> 
> Anyone?


She did have a funny reaction to the anesthetic...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

With experience of Onyx having anesthesia, she fights it, doesn't go under with ease and I have a feeling she was doing that during the spay/xray of her hips at the same time. I witnessed her being put under a few yrs after that with a different vet, we had to keep her on gas to do an ear hematoma repair. vet did a reversal, but watching her fight being put under was proof that she is a dog that needs 
'special' treatment. I still think her spay procedure experience was very hard on her, during an imprinting phase in her growth/development.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

onyx'girl said:


> With experience of Onyx having anesthesia, she fights it, doesn't go under with ease and I have a feeling she was doing that during the spay/xray of her hips at the same time. I witnessed her being put under a few yrs after that with a different vet, we had to keep her on gas to do an ear hematoma repair. vet did a reversal, but watching her fight being put under was proof that she is a dog that needs
> 'special' treatment. I still think her spay procedure experience was very hard on her, during an imprinting phase in her growth/development.


Very interesting. I wonder if Vesper is similar.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"I still think her spay procedure experience was very hard on her, during an imprinting phase in her growth/development"

exactly ! and now you might have issues with mistrust 

is your dog in a harness and seat belt or in a crate when in the car ?


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

carmspack said:


> "I still think her spay procedure experience was very hard on her, during an imprinting phase in her growth/development"
> 
> exactly ! and now you might have issues with mistrust
> 
> is your dog in a harness and seat belt or in a crate when in the car ?


On long trips, she is in her crate for her safety. On short drives, she is allowed to be in the backseat and have her head out the window.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> It's not a spay issue its a training issue. She is young, up the training now.


This is not necessarily so, and not necessarily good advice. 

Spaying a female can increase reactivity in them. What has happened is their normal hormones have been interfered with. Not all bitches that are spayed, even young, but enough have that it is not unheard of.

Treating a dog that is reactive is tricky. You can flood the dog -- up the training and either dump treats/distractions at her to avoid the reaction until she learns to deal with dogs and people that are closer and closer to her, or correct her hard when she reacts, which treats the symptom and not the problem. Evenso, sometimes the symptom is the problem, and some people do find this effective.

I believe that if you have a reactive dog, you need to give them some space, take a break and let them mature a little, and then approach training with the idea that you are going to try and build the dog's confidence. While this is happening away from other dogs and people, the dog's bond to you increases. And little by little you can start expanding your inner circle and start moving closer to things that used to get a reaction out of your dog. 

You need to manage the dog around people and dogs, this is number one. You do not want there to be an incident, or another incident. Do what you think is necessary to ensure this doesn't happen. If she is fence fighting on your property, take her out on lead and go in before she gets a chance to start her routing. Manage her, manage her environment. This ensures that her reactive behavior is not inadvertently rewarded (people go away/draw their dogs back, which is what she wants). 

Improve your leadership skills. You might want to consider looking into NILIF. The idea is that if the dog looks to her leader to protect her, she does not need to always be ready to put on her show. She will start looking to you when people or critters are getting close/making her uncomfortable. A leader knows their dogs and their limits, they will adjust situations to favor their dog, before a reaction happens, thus not rewarding a negative reaction. 

Training. Training is where it is at. It is how we build the bond between canine and human. Good training will produce a strong bond of trust between dog and trainer (two way street) and it will build confidence in both handler and dog. I would start out one on one for now with the pup. Once the bond is stronger, then you can think about a group experience.

Exercise, not sure if it will help the specific issue, but it can't hurt. Exercising the dog away from other dogs and pups for now is the key. 

Socialization -- this is tricky. You do want to expose this dog to things, but you want to do it after she feels confident in you, so you need to build a bond prior to trying to expose her to what she reacts to. When you do start to socialize in earnest, go slow, there is no hurry.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

lexiz--From my experience with a reactive dog, Selzer really touched on some important points.

i worked with two behaviorists (separate facilities) to address my dog's reactivity to other dogs when he was about a year old. I learned lots of strategies (like BAT and LAT) from the trainers. But, my dog was still reactive.

When I went to the Schutzhund club (1.5 years old), the training director was not overly concerned--she said it was fixable. So at the club I learned that my GSD needed a command (like fuss/heal), then a correction, if needed, and then praise (verbal/food) when he followed the command. I actually got my focus on watching my dog's body language more than looking around. I got his focus on me through focused heeling. The corrections for looking elsewhere were very important in my dog's case.

At a year and a half years old, I was comfortable giving my GSD a correction for reactivity. I am glad I worked with behaviorists first so that a good foundation was laid for my GSD. He has made very good progress.

Good luck! Getting a good trainer might really help.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Thank you all so much for your advice. I really appreciate it.


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