# Aggressive cat vs. dominant dog



## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

We got our GSD in October from a rescue and he is approximately 18 months old. We were told he was "good with cats" and since we had a cat in our home this was a huge must. We didn't take into consideration that our cat wasn't "good with dogs". In the first couple of weeks, it seemed like everything was going to work out between the two of them, but then something switched. Our GSD started focusing hard on the cat. We started training with a private trainer around the same time, so we assumed the expert would help us correct the problem. Long story short, it hasn't gotten better and our trainer hasn't been very reliable in communicating with us. So I'm looking for a way to "start over" and fix the problem. Also, on walks (and in the yard) he goes crazy over bikes, skateboards, joggers/people walking by, other dogs, and strollers. I didn't do what I should have when we brought him home and now I'm paying for it, but we have to fix it. As a stay at home mom, I'm done dealing with the madness.

Overview:

Cat: 5 y/o neutered male and definitely will fight first, then flight
Dog: GSD 18 month old neutered male. Seems to want to play (to an extent) with the cat, but definitely loses his brain when the two encounter each other. I am able to grab his collar without fear and he's easy to break away. The trainer trained him in some basic obedience (sit, stay, heel) but we are only able to get him to do this inside the house with little to no distractions. 

Our goals:

For the dog and cat to tolerate each other. Right now they are being kept from interacting as much as possible (sometimes we forget what room the cat is in and it causes chaos). I want the dog to not react to the cat so that the cat will not react to him.

Thanks!


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

Tough one... we have multiple cats and gsds but it was always a puppy meeting a cat that had been around dogs or later kittens meeting dogs that are already socialized to cats. Having a cat that tolerates dogs is often forgotten. We first assume that when told a dog is good with cats it means they will get along...often forgetting that the cat has to cooperate!!!! I feel for you. Continue the separation. Keep the dog on a lead while the cat is around and correct, correct, correct until he gets that he cannot react to the cat. Hopefully the cat will eventual just ignore the dog and visa-versa.


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## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thanks! That's what I've started today (keeping him on a leash or crated while in the house). He needs more structure anyways (he's very whiny) and even though he enjoys being outside most of the day, I think he's getting a bit neurotic out there (worn paths, digging holes and constant barking) so I'm changing that as well. I think we gave him way too much freedom and expected him to figure out how we wanted him to behave. I've held on to a fear that I will make him aggressive if I do this type of stuff (we have two toddlers that he is great with, so I don't want him lashing out on them). We are very disappointed in the trainer and we have to do something different to be able to live peacefully and have happy animals.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

You've pretty much blown your window of opportunity for a "slow approach"
the preferred option would have been to "Train the Dog in Place" allow the cat to move about and correct the dog for breaking place if he moved towards the cat.

A minor leash correction should have been all that was needed in the beginning. The number one rule is the "Dog Never Chases the Cat" but at this point that opportunity is gone. It would have been similar to these:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5062642-post32.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/6715746-post2.html


But now ... you need to correct the dog by delivering an "Aversive" that the dog understands! And you can do that with a "Bonker" (a hand towel bound with rubber bands) or a bundled pair of socks! If the dog is seriously dangerous then you need to use a tie back, secure the dog on a leash and let the cat move freely, the second the dog shows unwanted attention or "any" attention to the "Cat" your call, you say "NO" and throw the "Bonker" at the dog and hit him in the head or neck with it! It's a towel it won't hurt your dog and it "will" send him a clear message that the cat will not be screwed with!

Details and sources or in here for "Bonker" training.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7410522-post2.html

Once the cat understands that the dog knows not to screw with him, he is much less likely to be hostile towards the dog. 

Or find a trainer and use a "Behaviour Modification" protocol with the E-Collar. But since you had a rough time finding a competent qualified trainer on your own ...this may service you better to find a local referral.:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7378442-post9.html

Or if you want to try yet again on your own this time as them if they use all Four Quadrants of Operant Conditioning?? If they have to explain why they don't say see ya, they can't help you. 

I suppose you could still go with the slow roll tactics?? I have too many cats for that approach myself but now you know. 

Oh and the dogs on walks thing ...see here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...611193-leash-reactive-getting-worse-time.html


Sorry about your trainer and as always ask questions.


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## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

Thanks for the info. I will take a look at the links and see what works for us. I definitely understand about missing my window of opportunity. I assumed too many things (that he would leave the cat alone and that the trainer would help us fix the problem right as it started). The trainer was fine when it was our week with him, but his follow-ups have left a lot to be desired (he reschedules a lot due to personal reasons). But while waiting for his recommendations, a month went by and the behavior didn't get corrected. The dog isn't dangerous. I don't believe he would kill the cat on purpose (he could have by now if he wanted). I just think he doesn't know how to respond to things (the cat, joggers, bikes, other dogs) and once he's taught, he will be an excellent dog. I do appreciate the response and am interested in reading more about the "bonker" approach. I haven't heard of that one before.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

crumples10 said:


> Thanks for the info. I will take a look at the links and see what works for us. I definitely understand about missing my window of opportunity. I assumed too many things (that he would leave the cat alone and that the trainer would help us fix the problem right as it started). The trainer was fine when it was our week with him, but his follow-ups have left a lot to be desired (he reschedules a lot due to personal reasons). But while waiting for his recommendations, a month went by and the behavior didn't get corrected. The dog isn't dangerous. I don't believe he would kill the cat on purpose (he could have by now if he wanted). I just think he doesn't know how to respond to things (the cat, joggers, bikes, other dogs) and once he's taught, he will be an excellent dog. I do appreciate the response and am interested in reading more about the "bonker" approach. I haven't heard of that one before.


Not dangerous to the cat got it. More like pushy and rude, So tie back sounds like over kill. 

Yes the "Bonker!" LOL yeah that one really upsets folks! I heard Jeff Gellman mention it often on his weekly radio shows jhe does this twice a week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI9Undz475I

Then finally a trainer posted a clip and this happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1iPLzITJ0I&index=5&list=PLJ7o1pCCSIaH9_aTn-wieA2XjbAyIIlQl

It was with a Cat by the way. 

Once I finally saw it, I thought hey, that is simple direct and to the point! Safe and humane and it gets the point across fast!

You can find the details here:
Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - Stopping unwanted behavior with Bonkers!

Apparently if you get it wrong the dog thinks it's a game! Boxers have humiliated a few owners, that most likely made a half-hearted lame attempt at doing it?? But I have in heard in PM's that some folks have used it with great success as did I for a rather minor problem,(over barking at door knocks) admittedly but it worked great and took 5 seconds worth of effort (took me a few seconds to find a sock!  

Tons on it at Gary Wilkes's site but here is a piece.

Why the Bonker Works | Gary Wilkes' Real Clicker Training


His response to joggers, bikes, dogs and other things should be nothing! Use the "PC" to convince him "it's not your concern" dog unless told otherwise. 

And "Sit on the Dog and The Place Command" are in those links, extremely important, you should do and train those!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Just found another Cat v Dog thing simpler still, I still think a "Bonker sends a stronger message but whatever works. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMio1LAZLSEE


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Crumples,
You need to start some obedience training to handle the issues that you are having outside. From what you describe about your dog "going crazy" over the bikers, skateboarders, etc. it seems he is a high prey drive dog. You need to teach a solid recall, down stay and sit stay. Your dog needs to be trained and worn out. A good dog is tired dog. 

The issue with your cat is a difficult one. I would keep them separated, put up gates and give your cat an escape route. If your cat decides to fight, he may very well wind up dead. It doesn't take much for a GSD to kill a cat. There are those dogs that chase a cat and once the cat stops to fight the dog leaves. Then there are dogs that simply snatch the cat up and the fight is over. I'm not sure which type of dog that you have, but if you have the latter, the cat will not fair well. I would make sure that you have some dog free zones for the cat to escape too. I love cats and saw one last night that I really wanted to take home. Unfortunately, it wouldn't last 5 minutes in my house with my dog. That is why I don't have cats. A puppy might have been easier to acclimate than an 18 month old dog. 

If the dog is really not animal aggressive, then with some good obedience training you might be able to get them to co exist. But, don't ever expect them to be friends or safe to be left alone together. 

Best of luck.


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## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

We started basic obedience about a month after we got him (see previous info about trainer), but since our trainer has gone off the map we've been left in a tough spot. We don't want to spend any more big bucks on private training, so I am beginning to work with him myself. I'm open to any online info or books that you guys recommend related to training at home. Just by leashing him or crating him all day yesterday made a difference I believe. He had a few "tantrums" in the crate towards the end of the evening, but overall he accepted it. 

I don't care if they ever become friends. That'd be nice, but the ultimate goal is that they can freely roam around the house ignoring each other and I can worry about my kids and not have to think where the cat is. 

Thanks again for everyone's help. I'm excited about seeing what we can accomplish.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sigh ...yes "Escape Routes" I have had up to 5 dogs and 17 cats living together at one time. Never less than 14 cats (cat rescue) and two dog's at any one time. In more than 15 years of cats and dogs living together I have never had a single cat v dog situation. (down to one dog and six cats not counting the random strays, that come into the yard walk, by Rocky and eat on the table above his head on the Patio table.)

That would include my (formerly dog aggressive) Am Band Dawg, my OS WL GSD with high rank drive pack and (formerly HA) issues, battles with the aforementioned AM Band Dawg and my high prey drive Boxer that chased down Jack Rabbits in the open desert. 

What they all had in common is they did not *" screw with the cats!"* My dogs don't even "perceive" cats in the environment (proofed) with Rocky (WL OS GSD.) I only noticed with, him because I watched him like a Hawk because of his "people issues" and I would see cats that he never seemed to notice??

People that struggle with Cat dog issues don't get that! Dogs get returned all the time because "they don't get alone with the cat." 

I did include the Joe Galaxy "Escape route, can't we all get alone approach" for those that don't get the *"don't screw with the cats!"* approach. I always had too many cats for that crap, myself ... 

Any of my dogs could do this:









Impressive yes but no big deal to me. 

I like to "keep it real" if a dog of mine goes after one on my cats?? That dogs life will get pretty "uncomfortable" cause:










But hey ... I'm not a "Pro" but Jeff is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKMJuR3BRU

Pretty sure Victora Stillwell has some "escape route, long drawn out treat-filled don't eat my cat advice??" Not my thing.


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## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

So Chip if you had my situation what would your day to day look like? I'm trying to figure out if I should "set him up" per se to work with the cat situation or just let it naturally happen? Our cat lazes around most of the day and seems to have better sense of where the dog is than vice versa (so the cat pretty much avoids coming into contact with the dog, but once they meet is when the scuffle occurs). I'd be curious how more experienced handlers would train this behavior daily versus me just guessing and Google.  

Right now I'm keeping him leashed or crated inside the house, but he's free in the yard for approximately 30 min to an hour several times a day. We are also doing some very basic obedience training (basically the stuff the trainer gave us to do).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

If you are the least bit unsure, use a muzzle, ideally, you work on the "Place Command" once that is trained. The dog understands that he is not to move "without permission" that's the whole point (well ok it also "Trains calmness into a dog") but the point is, train "Place" and you can correct the dog for breaking "Place" ...watch the end of this end clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIGq_5r0DeE

Every dog should be taught the "Place Command" it's a big hit on "BoxerForum." 

In the "old days" I would have just simply put the dog in a down stay, have a leash on the dog release the cats and if the dog moved towards the cat it would have been a pretty "severe leash correction!" Most of my dogs were "puppies" and they just "never" chased the cats. The "leerburgh" clip showed way more interaction that I would have been comfortable with but note ... the Cat was free to engage or leave as he chose. 

her

And I thought the dog cat treat thing was fairly insane?? Rocky was the closest I ever got to having any concern,if he had a treat he would growl at the cat?? I chose to let that one go as saying "Rocky" and then "Cat" seemed to solve it. The "majority of my cats get that but there is always the one! So with that one it's still "Rocky!" Rocky stops and then I say Cat! The Cat walks awa,y been eight years so we're good. :crazy:
Rocky, thinks the cats are a "PIA" but they luv him! They are always in his face! But ... no bones or chew toys with him, unless, I am right there to monitor him and the cats. And the cats .. Cesars, "Ptss" sound freaks them out! Four out of three of my living rooms cats are threshold trained! Done with "Ptss" sound. Front or back door open they will not go out of the house! Cat number four ...?? We have an arrangement, he does what he wants and I let him. 

The quick way as I see it would be a combination of "Peter Caine" step on the leash and "Gary Wilkes" "Bonker" put a drag leash on the dog, tell the dog "Down and Stay" "release the cat" if the dog breaks the "Down/Stay" to go after the Cat. Hit him with the "Bonker!" 

Or you can put a "drag leash on the dog" release the "Cat" and say "nothing," if the dog goes after the cat, step on the leash and hit the dog with the "Bonker."

Self Correction:
Dog Training and Obedience Articles | Self Correction - Carpentersville, Illinois

Down/Stay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaVvwbT7iYw



Or ... forget the Cat, and train "Place" it trains "calmness into the dog" (thanks, Bailiff) once the Cat understands, the dog is under control, they will show themselves. Then if the dog breaks "Place" to chase the cat you can correct him with the "Bonker." 

Most likely training "Place" is what Jeff did in the clip and he did not think the Cat passing in front of the dog was worth mentioning??

The Cats are free to engage with the dog but the dog is not free to engage with the cat. They understand the difference.

And I will note that as crazy as I found the "Leerburgh clip" ... bottom line is still, the Cat was free to engage with the dog but the dog was not free to "chase" the cat. "They" understand the difference.

Does this make sense??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

crumples10 said:


> So Chip if you had my situation what would your day to day look like? I'm trying to figure out if I should "set him up" per se to work with the cat situation or just let it naturally happen? Our cat lazes around most of the day and seems to have better sense of where the dog is than vice versa (so the cat pretty much avoids coming into contact with the dog, but once they meet is when the scuffle occurs). I'd be curious how more experienced handlers would train this behavior daily versus me just guessing and Google.
> 
> Right now I'm keeping him leashed or crated inside the house, but he's free in the yard for approximately 30 min to an hour several times a day. We are also doing some very basic obedience training (basically the stuff the trainer gave us to do).


Hmmm after my long dissertation, yes you already have part of it! No free roaming in the house, the dog should be in "Place" or in his Crate. Control his movements, if you don't know where he is?? You can't prevent problems?? Once he understands the rules ... you can lighten up! 

If you got that from your trainer, the leash and Crate in the house, although they should have mentioned "Place," ... I'm impressed!


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## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

I got the leash and crate from here mostly. And I've been reading leerburg (still have a lot more to read). "Place" is part of the trainers second set of obedience lessons (read: more money) so it wasn't even discussed. Thanks again for all the info. I'm out now but can't wait to dive into all tonight.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

"Place" is the second set?? LOL... well, you can pay for it, or you can go here:
Fearful, Anxious or Flat Crazy "The Place CommanD - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums


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## crumples10 (Jan 13, 2016)

Update: after a couple of days of being on the leash or in the crate while in the house, Chase seems to be responding well. He has his tantrums every once in awhile, but for the most part has accepted following me around or laying down on his bed while I watch tv. We had a good moment tonight. I let him in the house and sent him to his crate and the cat was hiding right inside the door under a small trampoline. No noises from anyone. About 10 minutes went by before the cat moved and Chase got a bit excited. The cat ran outside so that ended the exercise, but the cat is definitely getting more comfortable about moving around the house so hopefully that exposure helps everyone. 

Side question: if you had a chance to go to one of Jeff Gellman's RV training deals, would you? His RV tour will be in Dallas at the end of this year, but I was curious how others felt about him (I just learned about him from posting this thread).


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