# Alternative Breed to German Shepherd



## tori1323

Hello,
I am looking to get a puppy in about a 2 years. Sort of researching breeders around me and housing right now. I grew up with 3 German Shepherds (if you count my grandparents dog that was always over). I trained both of ours and loved working with them. However, I am going to be stuck with renting probably for a while and most people don't like renting out to people with 100 lb dogs. So I am currently looking at Border Collies and Aussies. They're both be supposed to be smart breeds, and trainable like a German Shepherds. I basically want something close in temperate to a German Shepherd. Any recommendations? Border Collies seem to have less health issues. 
Thanks!


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## Pytheis

Well, a GSD is not supposed to be 100 pounds, so you might not have to worry about that after all. If you get a well bred female GSD, you may be able to find one that is in the 50-60 pounds range. Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?


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## tori1323

Pytheis said:


> Well, a GSD is not supposed to be 100 pounds, so you might not have to worry about that after all. If you get a well bred female GSD, you may be able to find one that is in the 50-60 pounds range. Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?


We had a female that was for sure smaller, but she was runt of the litter. The smartest but the runt. The brother (my uncle had) was like 100 lbs. Our male dog was about a 100lbs. My mom's current female is about a 100lbs. They're all pure bred.


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## WIBackpacker

For as large of a divide as there is in the German Shepherd breed, the split in border collies is even greater.

I see a lot of BCs every week, and I've fostered several. They are very intelligent but their temperaments and levels of drive and energy run the gamut, depending largely on whether they are from strict working stock, sport lines, show lines, or random mixes. Some are fantastic companions, others are not. I've met some that I'd love to steal, and others you couldn't pay me to own. Go watch a lot of them.

There seems, IME, to be a less extreme split in the Aussie breed, and good breeders put a very high emphasis on versatility. If I were looking for an Aussie, I would make sure the parents have been worked/titled in a venue that demonstrates their desire to work WITH their handler. Some that I've met have a strong, weird, arrogant/stubborn streak that would irritate me. Deliberate jerk behavior, which everyone watching chalks up to "Well, he IS an Aussie!"


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## Jax08

Groenendale.
Scotch Collie
Neither of those dogs would set off alarm bells for a landlord.


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## wolfy dog

The Belgian Groenendale can be neurotic. I would never own one. IN general the Belgian Shepherds are pretty intense. You can not go wrong with a well bred Rough or Smooth Collie. All these breeds need a lot of work though. Maybe a showline GSD? They are generally easier in their requirements than the working lines. How about a Corgi (but they bark!). 
I personally don't know an alternative to a good GSD as long as I am fit and active, that is.


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## Jax08

I've met several Groenendales and not a single one was neurotic. Like any breed, you have to choose your breeder.


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## Iamtomisbehave

I have a Groenendael and while I love her dearly - she is indeed super neurotic. Really smart but flighty and any new things send her into a tizzy (sometimes for weeks at a time). She is also really cautious around my husband even though he has never done anything adverse to her. She came to us like that though and though we got her at 4mo's of age she had a pretty rough time before then.

I really love the breed and you can find some solid dogs - you just need to be careful where you get them from. We knew our girl was going to be a whackadoodle before we got her so we were not upset or disappointed in her behavior. 

After years of working with Afghan hounds I can pretty much handle any sort of neurotic behavior a dog can throw at me!

Scotch Collies are fabulous but can also be really sensitive and fearful if gotten from the wrong lines - but I also highly recommend them! Just do your research before hand.

Also if you don't mind the grooming standard poodles are awesome! 

Beth


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## WIBackpacker

Tori, if you're interested in border collies and Aussies, go check some out! 

To your original question though, most GSDs are nowhere near 100lbs. Especially females. One of mine is toward the upper end of the standard at 69lbs, the other is around 52lbs. Though what you may be likely to run into, as a renter, are breed-specific restrictions.


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## Jenny720

It’s not the line but the particular match from a good breeder. My working line was super super mellow and calm in the house adult- 90lbs thin. He was not tall head was probably the bulk of his weight. He gained weight easily and if he reached a hundred he had 10lbs to loose. My male asl 84 lbs - tallest of the three and my female wgsl 65lbs. If a gsd in apartment the female would be a way to go size wise
- asl tend to be taller. They are all active and need to do something. Corgis are also a breed to look at.


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## Sabis mom

Breeding aside, any working dog is going to be neurotic if they are under exercised and under stimulated. 

Personally I would need proof of behavior before I EVER shared a house with a Border Collie. I tried to bring mine to live in the city and it was a disaster! He threw some truly creative tricks at me in answer to my request that he behave like a city dog. To be fair he was a working stock dog and had no experience as a pet. However, years in rescue showed dozens of BC's surrendered because they were uncontrollable.
You also need to understand that dependant on your area renting with any dog could well mean resigning yourself to sub standard housing, higher rents and increased deposits and fees.
Most decently bred female GSD's are going to be only moderately larger then either an Aussie or a BC, if at all. My male BC was bigger then my current GSD.

Honestly, if you must have a dog and know you will be renting I would go through a rescue and adopt an adult. Very few landlords and fewer neighbors are tolerant of puppy nonsense, but lots of landlords are softies for well mannered rescues.


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## tori1323

I've had pure bred German Shepherds... 1 was smaller but she was also bred to be an agility dog. She was also the runt of the litter. Her siblings were much bigger. Her brother was easily over 100 lbs. My male German Shepherd was easily over 100 lbs too. Then my mom's current female German Shepherd is about 100 lbs right now. So they do reach 100 lbs easily in my experience. My friends German Shepherds were even bigger. So in my experience, they've been usually bigger. You don't want them bigger though because of hip issues.


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## carmspack

yeah , I would have said a 60 pound mellow female GSD \

Grpemdal or Tervuren -- my experience through owners wanting to join a training club and thrugh some of the shows where I tag along to as a handler in case my firend , exhibitor, has two entrieds thatneed to be in the ring
at the same time is , nervy dogs , that startle -- neurotic .

I have had experience with some excellent Airedale terriers that came from a local breeder who had some dogs go into guide work, detection and therapy .
I helped train a few -- .
Very smart . good cognitive skills learning new and retaining training - a thinking dog.
Good companion . Stabel and confident and could do protection.

were adaptable . Treat them like a GSD . Fair and firm .

grooming was hand stripping 2 or 3 times a year --


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## MineAreWorkingline

When I go to downsize, and might even get one before then, it is going to be an Australian Cattle Dog.


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## dogfaeries

carmspack said:


> I have had experience with some excellent Airedale terriers that came from a local breeder who had some dogs go into guide work, detection and therapy .
> I helped train a few -- .
> Very smart . good cognitive skills learning new and retaining training - a thinking dog.
> Good companion . Stabel and confident and could do protection.
> 
> were adaptable . Treat them like a GSD . Fair and firm .
> 
> grooming was hand stripping 2 or 3 times a year --


I had an Airedale about 30 years ago. She was everything you just wrote. Great dog.


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## Ken Clean-Air System

Another fun, smaller breed that no one has mentioned yet is the Shetland Sheepdog. They have great energy, and personality. They are also a working breed and definitely need daily mental and physical exercise ... though some of their working drive may have been bred out by breeding for show rather than work. Not sure if there is a split in the Sheltie breed as there is in many other working breeds, as it's been many years since I've had one, but they are great little dogs ... and although I'm not really a little dog person I wouldn't mind owning another Sheltie someday.


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## Tennessee

Pytheis said:


> Well, a GSD is not supposed to be 100 pounds, so you might not have to worry about that after all. If you get a well bred female GSD, you may be able to find one that is in the 50-60 pounds range. Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?


So she shouldn't get a border collie cause they're too high maintenance, instead she should get a Malinois which is just like a border collie but is far more dominant, aggressive, and civil?

Did I read that right? :|

ETA: OP - civil means threshold for biting people, including their handler. It's not a positive thing as you might assume, unless that's what you want and are prepared to handle of course.


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## Jenny720

Always liked airdales a versatile dog. They don’t shed either- I think.


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## Mame

I imagine herding dogs in general would fare poorly in an apartment unless the owner is willing to get them outdoors a LOT. You could rescue a very deserving and apartment friendly Greyhound from a racetrack :wink2:

+10 Karma Points even.


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## JessicaR

Shelties are great dogs! of course I may be a little biased since I have 4 of them. :grin2: They come in a variety of colors and size, they are supposed to be 13-16 inches tall but it is common to have oversized pups in the litters. My big boy is 18 inches tall and 40 pounds (not overweight)


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## Hineni7

I'd go with the GSD hands down. But a Turvuren shepherd is smaller


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## Jax08

I would get a German Shepard. It's the French version of a German herding dog.


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## Nurse Bishop

Greyhound..... like  Or Whippet if you want smaller.


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## Femfa

Jax08 said:


> I would get a German Shepard. It's the French version of a German herding dog.


Sounds exotic. Bet they sell for loads on Kijiji!


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## Jax08

Femfa said:


> Sounds exotic. Bet they sell for loads on Kijiji!


They sell them at a local pet store!!


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## LaRen616

I suggest a wellbred female GSD. 

I'm a Sheltie lover but I have been told that they are barkers so I don't know if that will work well if you live in an apartment. 

If you are planning on being very active with your dog then an ACD might be a good fit.


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## cloudpump

French bulldog. We've got a working one in my club.


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## Sabis mom

Look there are hundreds of perfectly lovely breeds, but honestly unless you are seriously dedicated a working dog in a rental is begging for an eviction and a bill. 
The only dog I ever had that was a GOOD apartment dog was my Dane, and that was after we got through the puppy stuff and the separation anxiety, lol. 

Shelties can be REALLY barky, like every time their feet hit the ground the mouth opens. Mine happened to be quiet, but most are not. 
Most Terriers are yappy, SCWT's, Airedales, and a few others not so much but they will go off like car alarms when guests arrive unless you really step up the training. Bull Terriers are awesome but stubborn and prone to separation anxiety I believe.
Most of the sight hounds are quiet and pretty laid back, but they need exercise. 
I am pretty opposed to ACD's as pets unless they are in the hands of experienced owners and have something to do.

Most Toy breeds make wretched apartment dogs. 

I do like Corgi's but with limited info from the OP who knows.


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## tim_s_adams

There is no breed of dog that has "Sheperd like qualities" that is not a GSD. Don't get another breed, just find a well bred GSD that doesn't exceed the breed standard, and you'll have a great dog that's way leas than 100 lbs, that will learn and act just like a GSD!

My last dog, lived with me in several homes, in motels, and in many different rentals. She had an at home bark, a motel bark (which was more like a whisper), and an outside bark which would put all the others to shame in its volume LOL! Very smart, very versatile dogs they are! If you really want a dog that is as trainable and smart, you seriously have no choice to make, there is no other breed that measures up.


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## tim_s_adams

I gotta say, now I've heard everything LOL, a dane was a good, or should I say best, apartment dog? Who'da thunk that? >


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## Chuck94!

I'm strictly asuming but I would think a 100 lbs female GSD would be nothing but obese?


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## tori1323

She wasn't though. She was just very big girl. She was tiny when we got her because she was a rescue from a German shepherd rescue, and an older women couldn't handle her and wasn't feeding her enough. She was also a puppy still. Well exercised and not obese... big dog.


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## GandalfTheShepherd

I raised my 8 week old shepherd on the third floor of an apartment and we did just fine!! We lived there until he was like 6 or 7 months old, and we then moved because WE wanted a house. For those of you who say it's not possible to raise a GSD in an apartment I ask why? Why is an apartment any different than a house? Why does your dog need extra indoor space, to launch himself up on your couch? My dog isn't allowed to run through my home like it's a racetrack... and neither was he in an apartment! That is just unacceptable behavior. Why do you NEED a yard? Do you call that exercise? Being in the apartment I took my puppy and we went on adventures. I feel like it helped him grow up to become an even better dog! Not to mention the socialization was amazing... he got to see all sorts of people, dogs, cars, hear weird noises every single day. The neighbors cat across the hall would come out to see him when they opened their door. We were also very close with everyone in our building, the community was fantastic and my puppy made a lot of great friends! He got to grow up with kids around and get used to them even though I didn't even have any. We had to work on "quiet" so we didn't disturb the guy under us and now my grown dog doesn't have obsessive barking problems like most people's GSD I've read about on here. Honestly I feel like if you raise your dog in a house you're at a disadvantage because you might just get lazy and not put in the effort. The only concern I see is breed restrictions, GSD are on many of those lists.


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## Jenny720

There are size restrictions in addition to breed restrictions with many apartments that was the concern. My first house with my first gsd was smaller probably then smaller most apartments as well the yard.


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## Mame

Chuck94! said:


> I'm strictly assuming but I would think a 100 lbs female GSD would be nothing but obese?


Not true. Definitely above standard.


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## Chuck94!

I would genuinely like to see a picture of a female GSD over 100 lbs that is not overweight/obese _*serious*_


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## Mame

98 pounds.


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## Chuck94!

Mame said:


> Not true. Definitely above standard.


See this is what I wanted to see! Do you have any side/body pics?


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## CometDog

It depends where you live, housing allowances. Here in suburban NJ it is impossible to rent with a larger pet (and even a smaller dog). Rule of thumb is hire a realtor to find an apartment. Which means a full extra month rent as his fee and often a negotiated additional deposit for the pet. It is more in luxury apartments in NYC where you see people with large dogs. Afghans, etc lol You need to throw money at it if you want to rent a medium to large dog around here. Other places are much different.

OP- if you want a GSD, get a GSD. Just research your housing options ahead of time. Think 2 apartments ahead in case you have to move. I don't know enough about other breeds to give any inout there. I have only had GSDs, and random shelter dogs. Only one shelter dog was a PB, an English Mastiff. The irony is the giant breeds are suited for apartment life with daily walks. They do not have the energy expenditure requirements as most other breeds. I also had a Jack Russell. Loved her to death, but I would not give one as a gift to my worst enemy. Ball of terror. First dog that ever drove me to professional behaviorists lol What about an English Bulldog? I don't know. I just know that the GSD temperament is quite unique to GSDS.


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## Chuck94!

Chuck94! said:


> See this is what I wanted to see! Do you have any side/body pics?


and @Mame I mean nothing negatively! I genuinely am curious!


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## tori1323

Figured out how to upload photos.


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## Chuck94!

You guys are killing me lol - I honestly just want to see a 100 lbs female picture of the body:grin2:! Not cause I don't believe its not possible I just am curious as to what a 100 lbs female GSD body looks like while still being healthy! cause I personally have not seen one so it intrigues me


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## Mame

I don't have body pictures, because I've had no reason to take them. She's not show or breeding stock. Great structure, though.


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## Chuck94!

Aww you need to take more pics then! I take pictures of Rollo all the time - nothing specific just while he moves throughout the day - so I have quite a few pictures of his body randomly!


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## Chuck94!

Mame said:


> I don't have body pictures, because I've had no reason to take them. She's not show or breeding stock. Great structure, though.


I don't doubt you - thats why I wanted to see just an overall pic of her body!


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## Mame

There are plenty of other threads that have covered this. A dog can adhere to all conformation traits outside of weight and be perfectly healthy--a larger body, as a general rule, is just not going to be a good match for rigorous work, and certainly not for breeding. My dog is a fit, healthy, beautiful moose, and you'll just have to take my word for it because I'm not interrupting my day to go take pictures. Let's get back to talking about apartments and GSD alternatives, etc.


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## Chuck94!

Mame said:


> There are plenty of other threads that have covered this. A dog can adhere to all conformation traits outside of weight and be perfectly healthy--a larger body, as a general rule, is just not going to be a good match for rigorous work, and certainly not for breeding. My dog is a fit, healthy, beautiful moose, and you'll just have to take my word for it because I'm not interrupting my day to go take pictures. Let's get back to talking about apartments and GSD alternatives, etc.


I also was looking through the GSD thread titled "any one else with 100lbs GSD's" and I did NOT see any pictures


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## Pytheis

Tennessee said:


> So she shouldn't get a border collie cause they're too high maintenance, instead she should get a Malinois which is just like a border collie but is far more dominant, aggressive, and civil?
> 
> Did I read that right? :|
> 
> ETA: OP - civil means threshold for biting people, including their handler. It's not a positive thing as you might assume, unless that's what you want and are prepared to handle of course.


She said she wanted a dog like a GSD, but NOT a GSD. That is a Belgian Malinois. She claims to have a lot of experience with the breed, so why should I assume that she couldn't handle the dominance and appropriate aggression, just like GSDs have? Border collies, Australian shepherds, Australian cattle dogs, none of those remind me at all of a GSD temperament. When I think of a GSD, my first thought is attachment to a single person, protective (appropriately), not thrilled with strangers, etc. All the BCs, Aussies and cattle dogs I have met have had none of those traits, while the Belgians I have met have had them, so. And I will reiterate, that a WELL BRED German shepherd should be nowhere near 100 pounds.


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## Jenny720

Enough already. 
Our chihuahua weighs 7lbs soaking wet and can be lifted with one hand. he thinks he is bigger then any gsd to the to the standard or oversized- fit or overweight. He is no gsd but his cognitive skills are through the roof.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pytheis

Also, like I said before in my first post... I still agree that a well bred female GSD is the best way for you to go. I had my GSD puppy in an apartment, and he was as happy as could be. The problem with dogs in apartments is the breed and size restrictions. I have been in apartments since I was 8 years old, and every single one banned pit bulls, dobermans, Rottweilers, huskies, akitas, chow chows, Presa Canarios (pretty much all the mastiffs actually) and a whole lot of them also banned German shepherds. The weight limit was usually about 70-75 pounds if they allow bigger dogs at all. Some only allow 30 pound dogs, which to me just means they are setting themselves up for a lot of barking!

You just have to spend time finding the right apartment that will allow your dog. It will be difficult I'm sure. What if you tried to find a private house or part of a house, like the basement to rent? I have found that private owners are MUCH more willing to work with you on your dog if he/she is well behaved and they can meet him/her.


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## Sabis mom

tim_s_adams said:


> I gotta say, now I've heard everything LOL, a dane was a good, or should I say best, apartment dog? Who'da thunk that? >


They tend to be couch potatoes. Devoted to their owners and minimal exercise needs. Don't bark much and friendly to a fault. Not at all prone to aggression and great with kids and various small creatures. 
A Danes idea of a good time is a warm blankie, snacks, a good movie and its human.
A good run a couple times a week and daily walks is sufficient. Low grooming needs as well.


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## Whiteshepherds

The OP needs to describe what they mean when they say they want a dog with a temperament that's close the GSD. There's a difference between having owned GSD's that were easy to train/live with and owning GSD's that were true working dogs. Without knowing the OP's* frame of reference* one of the last breeds I'd recommend would be a Malinois.


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## Hineni7

Chuck94.. My girl is not 100lbs (thank you LORD!) But she is a well muscled, solid, healthy weight, very athletic, vet weighed 92lbs. She is SAR trailing, HRD (land and water), and evidence certified.


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## Hineni7

Well....buggers! My pics wouldn't show up! Grr.. Ok, not trying to drive you to my blog... truly tried to upload the pics, not sure why they didn't pull up, but if you go to hineni7.simplesite.com you will see her in a bunch of different pics...

Someone help me out on the pics please? I dragged and dropped...and they showed up in that section, but not in my post..?


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## Chuck94!

Hineni7 said:


> Well....buggers! My pics wouldn't show up! Grr.. Ok, not trying to drive you to my blog... truly tried to upload the pics, not sure why they didn't pull up, but if you go to hineni7.simplesite.com you will see her in a bunch of different pics...
> 
> Someone help me out on the pics please? I dragged and dropped...and they showed up in that section, but not in my post..?


I've been to your blog multiple times!


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## Jenny720

If you get the app Tapatalk you will be able to log into to this forum and post photos.


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## Hineni7

Well, then you have seen a 92lb lean female GSD, lol! She is of course, above breed standards (not purposefully bred that way). They are out there - not something to brag about; size wise, but they do exist.

Thanks Jenny... not sure why I need an app to upload a pic when it shows they uploaded without... although they didn't show, soooo, maybe I do need it, lol


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## Chuck94!

Hineni7 said:


> Well....buggers! My pics wouldn't show up! Grr.. Ok, not trying to drive you to my blog... truly tried to upload the pics, not sure why they didn't pull up, but if you go to hineni7.simplesite.com you will see her in a bunch of different pics...
> 
> Someone help me out on the pics please? I dragged and dropped...and they showed up in that section, but not in my post..?


Is this her ??


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## Pytheis

Are you guys saying that malinois cannot make good pets? It seems like you guys are always touting that a good breeder will match you with the right dog and any line can match a household if the future owner is honest with the breeder about their experience and needs. Are you saying that malinois cannot settle in the house, are always aggressive, always dominant, and too drivey? That a person experienced with German shepherds is still too much of a novice to handle that breed? Because if so, I agree. No one should own one except for an active working owner. I guess I just thought better of the breed than I should have. I won't recommend them again.


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## Hineni7

Yep, that is her (she thinks pics steal her soul)... There are a few more pics on the HRD page that show her build better. The pics I tried to upload were profile...


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## Chuck94!

Yes I have and most certainly healthy! I was reading the blog yesterday! I love that she's SAR at her size which is proabably not common? She most definitely has to be in great shape at that size too - impressive! Thanks for sharing!


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## Chuck94!

She is a a machine (in a good way lol) :wub:


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## GandalfTheShepherd

There are really some big GSD females, Gandalfs mom was bigger than his dad and all of Gandalfs sisters are also bigger than him. If the OP does decide to go the GSD route they should take a close look at the parents and make sure they are on the smaller side.


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## Jenny720

Hineni7-Yes I can’t load mine one here either I believe there is a limit -so I use the taptalk to load photos. Your girl is a super beauty!!!!


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## LuvShepherds

Do you need to live in an apartment? Can you rent a house that allows dogs? I just visited someone in a rental house with a yard who has dogs, cats, birds and rodents. The house isn’t very nice, it needs work, but it’s habitable and they are allowed as many pets as they want.


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## dogfaeries

I think if you want a dog with a temperament like a GSD, you get a GSD. Find someone that doesn’t breed ginormous dogs, unless you just want to try out a different breed. I have friends that have downsized to Pembroke corgis and they try to tell me they are just like tiny shepherds. No, they’re not, lol.


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## LuvShepherds

dogfaeries said:


> I think if you want a dog with a temperament like a GSD, you get a GSD. Find someone that doesn’t breed ginormous dogs, unless you just want to try out a different breed. I have friends that have downsized to Pembroke corgis and they try to tell me they are just like tiny shepherds. No, they’re not, lol.


They aren’t. Some of my GSDs have Corgis too. They are very stubborn and independent and not easy to train. If I wanted a small GSD, I would get one that is finished growing and on the small side. My older one is small, but was tiny as a puppy too. She is a rescue.


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## dogfaeries

LuvShepherds said:


> They aren’t. Some of my GSDs have Corgis too. They are very stubborn and independent and not easy to train. If I wanted a small GSD, I would get one that is finished growing and on the small side.




That was a polite way of saying they are brats! Which they are, lol.


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## Sabis mom

LuvShepherds said:


> They aren’t. Some of my GSDs have Corgis too. They are very stubborn and independent and not easy to train. * If I wanted a small GSD, I would get one that is finished growing and on the small side*. My older one is small, but was tiny as a puppy too. She is a rescue.


Shadow is pretty little, 23" and around 45-50lbs, but you can't have her!


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## Tennessee

Pytheis said:


> She said she wanted a dog like a GSD, but NOT a GSD. That is a Belgian Malinois. She claims to have a lot of experience with the breed, *so why should I assume that she couldn't handle the dominance and appropriate aggression, just like GSDs have? *Border collies, Australian shepherds, Australian cattle dogs, none of those remind me at all of a GSD temperament. When I think of a GSD, my first thought is attachment to a single person, protective (appropriately), not thrilled with strangers, etc. All the BCs, Aussies and cattle dogs I have met have had none of those traits, while the Belgians I have met have had them, so. And I will reiterate, that a WELL BRED German shepherd should be nowhere near 100 pounds.


Classic backpedal

I 100% agree, they're out of standard, a person with "extensive experience with GSDs" would know this, which leads me to my main point...

* Why would you assume this? Because she thinks GSDs are supposed to be 100lbs, you assumed she'd never heard of Malinois', and you recommended against border collies due to their drives/energy. How many people do you honestly know that you would trust to handle a Mal, that have never heard of Malinois', that you would say a border collie is too high energy for them, and claims to have extensive experience with GSDs but thinks out of standard GSDs are the standard? Serious question! Because in my experience the answer is 0. *

Personally I have a general rule of not recommending the breed to anyone, just like I wouldn't recommend a Suzuki Hayabusa (it can go 248 mph). I if they could handle one they'll either find it on their own or they wont. No skin off my nose and hopefully one less dog kept out of the shelter. And don't get me wrong, I'm not some high & mighty Mal owner, a true to standard GSD is IMO a better overall dog than a Mal. The general Mal being bred these days, are wringing out what? 10-15% higher performance than the best GSDs? But at what cost? A pretty durn steep one, as you well know having met a bunch.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine, I don't want Mals to become the next GSD. I don't want to see them become the "tough guy" dog of choice and I don't want them to become main stream and severely damaged as a breed. They're NOT pets, they're working dogs, it's not a good idea to recommend them.


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## Hineni7

Thanks Chuck94, she is a beast...at work and love. Her bark sets LEO's who are well versed in PSD's a step back, until they meet her.

Thanks Jenny! I think she is beautiful, even being a bit oversized, although she wears it well and one really wouldn't think she is oversized...if that makes sense.

I agree with Tennessee's concern in recommending a Mal for someone who isn't ready to devote theneeded time, training and energy necessary for a harmonious existence. Are there Mal's out there that could fit in an apartment setting?? Uh, probably the ones on their way out, or buried already,lol. If they have an outlet, then yes, it could happen, but again, only with the correct person.

GSD'S, despite the mass breeding era that so screwed up our beloved breed , is special in that it can do the apartment (obviously depending on genetics and lines). I would agree it is hard to find a breed that closely resembles a gsd and does it well...good luck..


----------



## Nigel

Tennessee said:


> Classic backpedal
> 
> I 100% agree, they're out of standard, a person with "extensive experience with GSDs" would know this, which leads me to my main point...
> 
> * Why would you assume this? Because she thinks GSDs are supposed to be 100lbs, you assumed she'd never heard of Malinois', and you recommended against border collies due to their drives/energy. How many people do you honestly know that you would trust to handle a Mal, that have never heard of Malinois', that you would say a border collie is too high energy for them, and claims to have extensive experience with GSDs but thinks out of standard GSDs are the standard? Serious question! Because in my experience the answer is 0. *
> 
> Personally I have a general rule of not recommending the breed to anyone, just like I wouldn't recommend a Suzuki Hayabusa (it can go 248 mph). I if they could handle one they'll either find it on their own or they wont. No skin off my nose and hopefully one less dog kept out of the shelter. And don't get me wrong, I'm not some high & mighty Mal owner, a true to standard GSD is IMO a better overall dog than a Mal. The general Mal being bred these days, are wringing out what? 10-15% higher performance than the best GSDs? But at what cost? A pretty durn steep one, as you well know having met a bunch.
> 
> *This is a personal pet peeve of mine, I don't want Mals to become the next GSD. I don't want to see them become the "tough guy" dog of choice and I don't want them to become main stream and severely damaged as a breed. They're NOT pets, they're working dogs, it's not a good idea to recommend them*.


There are showline mals, I've met a few at our akc club. The appearance hasn't changed from what I can tell, but they're "softer" in temperament for lack of a better description. Not skidish, but much more social.


----------



## Sabis mom

Tennessee said:


> Classic backpedal
> 
> I 100% agree, they're out of standard, a person with "extensive experience with GSDs" would know this, which leads me to my main point...
> 
> * Why would you assume this? Because she thinks GSDs are supposed to be 100lbs, you assumed she'd never heard of Malinois', and you recommended against border collies due to their drives/energy. How many people do you honestly know that you would trust to handle a Mal, that have never heard of Malinois', that you would say a border collie is too high energy for them, and claims to have extensive experience with GSDs but thinks out of standard GSDs are the standard? Serious question! Because in my experience the answer is 0. *
> 
> Personally I have a general rule of not recommending the breed to anyone, just like I wouldn't recommend a Suzuki Hayabusa (it can go 248 mph). I if they could handle one they'll either find it on their own or they wont. No skin off my nose and hopefully one less dog kept out of the shelter. And don't get me wrong, I'm not some high & mighty Mal owner, a true to standard GSD is IMO a better overall dog than a Mal. The general Mal being bred these days, are wringing out what? 10-15% higher performance than the best GSDs? But at what cost? A pretty durn steep one, as you well know having met a bunch.
> 
> This is a personal pet peeve of mine, I don't want Mals to become the next GSD. I don't want to see them become the "tough guy" dog of choice and I don't want them to become main stream and severely damaged as a breed. They're NOT pets, they're working dogs, it's not a good idea to recommend them.


OP has not been back so I doubt they care either way. 
Personally I don't really think any working dog should be treated as a pet. I can't even count the number of GSD's I have had dumped on me because they aren't trainable or they are uncontrollable or they bite.
Most were perfectly lovely dogs, just needed a job and some guidance.
I cringe most of the time when people tell me they are getting any dog but my top peeves have got to be Heelers, BC's, Huskies and Mals. I find myself wandering around a lot muttering "Not my circus, not my monkeys" under my breath while resisting the urge to beat people.


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## Hineni7

Well the problem gets revved up every time a movie comes out with the dog of the season... usually a GSD, Mal or even an Akita, which,imho, is even worse.. 
I've owned GSD'S as just pets and been fine. My first gsd was a graduation gift and I had wanted one for about 5yrs.

Granted, now that I think about it, I began SAR with her and was training horses and so she was always with me...so I am a bad example, lol..too active, haha.


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## Suzy25

I dont agree with any mal recommendation that has come up, they are 100% not apartment dogs, and not suited to most peoples lifestyle. like many WL GSD's they are a lifestyle not a pet lol

A few shepherd people I know really enjoy Schipperkes as a smaller dog but still highly driven and high energy, they need kind of the same training as GSD's to respect you and such. I have seen many excel at many different sports and such. I'm not sure about them and barking but im sure with good training and such they could be quite enough for apartment buildings 

Of course before getting any breed doing all the proper research (more than just a quick google search  ) visiting the breeders and such 

Good luck on your search i hope you do the proper research and end up with the best breed for you


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## Digs1

If I wanted a small,trainable,energetic pet and house dog I'd probably go for a working bred spaniel.
Though you need to be on top of their training and have plenty of time to exercise them.

They're fun little dogs,you can do loads of activities with them.


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## Tennessee

Sabis mom said:


> OP has not been back so I doubt they care either way.
> Personally I don't really think any working dog should be treated as a pet. I can't even count the number of GSD's I have had dumped on me because they aren't trainable or they are uncontrollable or they bite.
> Most were perfectly lovely dogs, just needed a job and some guidance.
> I cringe most of the time when people tell me they are getting any dog but my top peeves have got to be Heelers, BC's, Huskies and Mals. I find myself wandering around a lot muttering "Not my circus, not my monkeys" under my breath while resisting the urge to beat people.


Yep it’s sad, dogs are an investment. 

:rofl: Exactly

Arctic dogs are also way up on my list of pet peeves, especially living in the South. 

/sarc
Oh yeah, a dog designed to live outside in below zero temperatures half the year and hunt for its food is perfect for an apartment in the South and our 90+ degree & 100% humidity summers! I mean they look like a teddy bears, what else do you need to know?!?!?
/sarc

Since I haven’t actually made a recommendation, Schnauzer, poodle, or whippet would probably fit the bill.


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## LaRen616

Pytheis said:


> Border collies, Australian shepherds, Australian cattle dogs, none of those remind me at all of a GSD temperament. When I think of a GSD, my first thought is attachment to a single person, protective (appropriately), not thrilled with strangers, etc. All the BCs, Aussies and cattle dogs I have met have had none of those traits, while the Belgians I have met have had them, so.


My friend has a female ACD and her dog is extremely attached to her and has protected her before. The ACD does not seek out the attention of strangers and actually doesn't really care to be petted by anyone except for her owner. She is smart, easy to train and is always watching her owner.


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## WIBackpacker

Cattledogs/Heelers really are a different cup of tea. 

They tend to be one-person/family-only dogs even more so than German Shepherds. They bond very intensely. They are very intelligent, but there is a different sort of stubborn independence. 

I'm (obviously) a pretty dedicated GSD person, and I inherited an ACD when a family member died.

I love her, but I would never put a dog like her in a completely "novice" dog home. The breed has the resiliency, pain tolerance, tenacity, and flat-out stubborn will to get kicked in the head by a cow and keep right on coming.


----------



## Tennessee

WIBackpacker said:


> Cattledogs/Heelers really are a different cup of tea.
> 
> They tend to be one-person/family-only dogs even more so than German Shepherds. They bond very intensely. They are very intelligent, but there is a different sort of stubborn independence.
> 
> I'm (obviously) a pretty dedicated GSD person, and I inherited an ACD when a family member died.
> 
> I love her, but I would never put a dog like her in a completely "novice" dog home. The breed has the resiliency, pain tolerance, tenacity, and flat-out stubborn will to get kicked in the head by a cow and keep right on coming.


Exactly, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Look at what the breed was designed to do and where its from, and really think about the personality traits & physical characteristics that would be required to be successful at it. That will give you a pretty good breed description and a list of pros/cons without having to even look at the standards. 

Example GSD vs ACD. Climate/size of Australia vs Germany, temperament/size of sheep vs cows. the list goes on but they make perfect sense when you think about it.


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## Jenny720

Wibackpacker description seems dead on from what little I have been around acd’s. There was a horse clinic at the barn and the instructor had two Australian cattle dogs. Like these dogs. They were like little mini bulls zipping and around the farm alloof but one seemed to acknowledge us made us feel special lol! They seemed like tough solid little dogs. His owner was training a horse that was not cooperating the dog was staring and not keeping his eyes off that horse - he looked ready to bull doze the horse and the owner told him to knock it off. I did really like those dogs but they sure had energy zipping around for hours. They lived on a farm and I’m sure they did not see four walls till the end of the day - they were happy as heck.


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## sebrench

I lived in apartments/duplexes/townhouses for many years while I was a student, saving up for a house, and so forth. I chose not to get a GSD (my ideal breed) because I didn't know how I'd exercise it properly. I think working dogs need the opportunity to run. I don't jog, and many GSDs and similar breeds aren't suitable for dog parks. I choose a papillon--about as far from a GSD as you can get--not the perfect breed for me, but he was the perfect apartment dog. He didn't NEED to exercise much outdoors, but he was smart, playful, energetic, and on weekends we went on plenty of long hikes in the woods. I had a sheltie years ago who would have been an excellent apartment dog, but some bark a lot, which could be a huge drawback. I also think a rescued greyhound could be a good choice. My parents have one that is wonderful. The bigger the dog, and the more formidable the breed, the more trouble it is going to be finding a rental. And if you have to move again in several years (you never know what might happen when you're renting), you'll have to start the whole process over again. We were moving every year or two for a while. It was difficult to find a decent place that even allowed toy breeds. Most of the places I found had breed and weight restrictions. I guess there may be more pet-friend states than I was in...?


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## Wildflowerzen

"Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?"

What in the ****?!!!! What an irresponsible & illiterate recommendation ??!! Belgian malinois??!! Do you even know one? You definitely don't.


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## Tennessee

Wildflowerzen said:


> "Border collies have INSANE exercise needs. They are so, so smart that they really need a job to do and a lot of exercise and mental stimulation. I usually say that any breed can live happily in an apartment, with the exception of a border collie and usually, in my experience, a husky. Have you looked at a Belgian malinois?"
> 
> What in the ****?!!!! What an irresponsible & illiterate recommendation ??!! Belgian malinois??!! Do you even know one? You definitely don't.


:rofl:

I’m glad I’m not the only one who read that and went “what the ......”


----------



## LaRen616

​


WIBackpacker said:


> Cattledogs/Heelers really are a different cup of tea.
> 
> They tend to be one-person/family-only dogs even more so than German Shepherds. They bond very intensely. They are very intelligent, but there is a different sort of stubborn independence.
> 
> I'm (obviously) a pretty dedicated GSD person, and I inherited an ACD when a family member died.
> 
> I love her, but I would never put a dog like her in a completely "novice" dog home. The breed has the resiliency, pain tolerance, tenacity, and flat-out stubborn will to get kicked in the head by a cow and keep right on coming.


The female, 6 month old puppy I have now is supposedly a Blue Heeler/Hound mix. I guess her brother looks more Heeler and she looks more Hound. She's very smart, very easy to train, catches on very quickly, is very energetic but also very well behaved, she is sweet, playful and literally obsessed with me. She always has to be touching me and is always watching me. She follows me around the house more than my GSD does. She is a dream in the car and is doing great socializing at my mom's hair salon. She likes to play rough with my GSD but backs down when he corrects her. She's a tough cookie and likes to speak her mind and voice her opinion. Great puppy though. 

My friend's female ACD is bossy and can be stubborn but she is pretty well behaved and doesn't leave my friend's side. She is very loyal.


----------



## tori1323

Pytheis said:


> Also, like I said before in my first post... I still agree that a well bred female GSD is the best way for you to go. I had my GSD puppy in an apartment, and he was as happy as could be. The problem with dogs in apartments is the breed and size restrictions. I have been in apartments since I was 8 years old, and every single one banned pit bulls, dobermans, Rottweilers, huskies, akitas, chow chows, Presa Canarios (pretty much all the mastiffs actually) and a whole lot of them also banned German shepherds. The weight limit was usually about 70-75 pounds if they allow bigger dogs at all. Some only allow 30 pound dogs, which to me just means they are setting themselves up for a lot of barking!
> 
> You just have to spend time finding the right apartment that will allow your dog. It will be difficult I'm sure. What if you tried to find a private house or part of a house, like the basement to rent? I have found that private owners are MUCH more willing to work with you on your dog if he/she is well behaved and they can meet him/her.


I've been sort of looking at all my options currently. I think the first 4 months I will have the dog I will be stuck in an apartment. I am not sure location after that-- it sort of depends where work decides to send me (currently interning and they keep rotating me to different locations.. and still in college.. So keep jumping back and forth between California, Texas, and Florida). Houses aren't readily available in some of those locations, so that's partially why I want to be careful with the German Shepherd. My options are limited in some locations and I wouldn't be able to give up my dog. So that's partially why I want to be very careful with just going with German Shepherd. I plan on training the dog before I become full time. Only taking 2 classes so I will have an amazing amount of time.. so the dog will be well socialized in theory. I attend Texas A&M.. which is a very dog friendly campus considering our mascot is Miss Rev.


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## tori1323

Whiteshepherds said:


> The OP needs to describe what they mean when they say they want a dog with a temperament that's close the GSD. There's a difference between having owned GSD's that were easy to train/live with and owning GSD's that were true working dogs. Without knowing the OP's* frame of reference* one of the last breeds I'd recommend would be a Malinois.


I probably have worked with both sides. Cody was bred to be a show dog. He had a very goofy personality and was clutsy. Shatzie was bred more to be a working dog/agility dog. She was more intense but always down to play. Cody had some issues when we first got him. My mom was scared to work with him, but I had him trained in a few months and he was the best behaved of his class after. So maybe I more looking for the personality. I found dogs like labs (I also had labs) don't have as much to them. (Great dogs.. not hating on them). All they want to do is love you. I liked the intelligence of the German Shepherd and their training ability. I think my other German Shepherds were more also more show dogs. They're more goofy in nature too. I think Shatzie was my favorite though. She had bad separation anxiety- which we were doing good citizen training with her.. so that was an issue. She was the most intelligent, however. She was also very talkative. Not in the barking sort of manner either. My mom would say "I love you" and she would do this whine thing that sounded like she was saying "I love you back". She would also give me sass. I would take her a on walk and she'd start talking. Then I would say something to her, and she was would respond back differently like she knew what I said to her. She was an interesting dog. None of my other dogs ever did that.


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## Jax08

Go to the shelter. Find a smaller dog that fits your personality and enjoy them until you are able to have the dog and breed you want.


----------



## tori1323

Tennessee said:


> Classic backpedal
> 
> I 100% agree, they're out of standard, a person with "extensive experience with GSDs" would know this, which leads me to my main point...
> 
> * Why would you assume this? Because she thinks GSDs are supposed to be 100lbs, you assumed she'd never heard of Malinois', and you recommended against border collies due to their drives/energy. How many people do you honestly know that you would trust to handle a Mal, that have never heard of Malinois', that you would say a border collie is too high energy for them, and claims to have extensive experience with GSDs but thinks out of standard GSDs are the standard? Serious question! Because in my experience the answer is 0. *
> 
> Personally I have a general rule of not recommending the breed to anyone, just like I wouldn't recommend a Suzuki Hayabusa (it can go 248 mph). I if they could handle one they'll either find it on their own or they wont. No skin off my nose and hopefully one less dog kept out of the shelter. And don't get me wrong, I'm not some high & mighty Mal owner, a true to standard GSD is IMO a better overall dog than a Mal. The general Mal being bred these days, are wringing out what? 10-15% higher performance than the best GSDs? But at what cost? A pretty durn steep one, as you well know having met a bunch.
> 
> This is a personal pet peeve of mine, I don't want Mals to become the next GSD. I don't want to see them become the "tough guy" dog of choice and I don't want them to become main stream and severely damaged as a breed. They're NOT pets, they're working dogs, it's not a good idea to recommend them.




To be fair... Shatzie was not close to 100 lbs. Kiana is a 100 lbs. Both females. Shatzie was also the runt of her liter. Shatzie was bred to be more of a work dog compared to Kiana. The other German Shepherds I dealt with where males and all 100 lbs. Which I understand you don't want them to be big because that means they're more likely to have hip problems. My uncles German Shepherd's (male and 100 lbs) back legs have given out and its sad. He's also really old and the last survivor from the litter.


----------



## tori1323

Sabis mom said:


> OP has not been back so I doubt they care either way.
> Personally I don't really think any working dog should be treated as a pet. I can't even count the number of GSD's I have had dumped on me because they aren't trainable or they are uncontrollable or they bite.
> Most were perfectly lovely dogs, just needed a job and some guidance.
> I cringe most of the time when people tell me they are getting any dog but my top peeves have got to be Heelers, BC's, Huskies and Mals. I find myself wandering around a lot muttering "Not my circus, not my monkeys" under my breath while resisting the urge to beat people.


Sorry... I work a full time job and don't have time to come on here all the time.....


----------



## tori1323

WIBackpacker said:


> Cattledogs/Heelers really are a different cup of tea.
> 
> They tend to be one-person/family-only dogs even more so than German Shepherds. They bond very intensely. They are very intelligent, but there is a different sort of stubborn independence.
> 
> I'm (obviously) a pretty dedicated GSD person, and I inherited an ACD when a family member died.
> 
> I love her, but I would never put a dog like her in a completely "novice" dog home. The breed has the resiliency, pain tolerance, tenacity, and flat-out stubborn will to get kicked in the head by a cow and keep right on coming.


One of my co-workers has one... I would agree with that statement. They seem extremely hard to train.. I want something easier to train. 


I would like to do agility with the dog, take on daily runs, and backpacking. Which as a side note I have heard GSD dogs are not the best breed to go backpacking with because of the slope of their back.


----------



## Mame

tori1323 said:


> ...I think the first 4 months I will have the dog I will be stuck in an apartment. I am not sure location after that-- it sort of depends where work decides to send me (currently interning and they keep rotating me to different locations...and still in college.


Saying this as kindly as possible, the stability here is not reliable enough for *any* dog, regardless of breed or source. I'm not a believer in advice because people generally do what they were going to do in the first place, and are typically looking for some kind of confirmation bias, but _there's no harm in waiting_.


----------



## tori1323

Jax08 said:


> Go to the shelter. Find a smaller dog that fits your personality and enjoy them until you are able to have the dog and breed you want.


I was going to try to go through a rescue. Texas has a lot of rescues for both GSD, border collies, and Aussies. Why I was looking more specifically at breeds. My friend had a border collie aussie mix and I LOVED their dog. I would love to find a mix because from previous research a mix is great if you can find them. 


Now, I am more aware of the working dog difference. Originally from San Diego... there's not a huge need for working dogs there. So not a difference that I would've been faced with a lot. Texas, though, it will have to be something I am more careful with.
Shatzie was from Wyoming tho, and I think she was bred more to be more of a working dog.


----------



## tori1323

Mame said:


> Saying this as kindly as possible, the stability here is not reliable enough for *any* dog, regardless of breed or source. I'm not a believer in advice because people generally do what they were going to do in the first place, and are typically looking for some kind of confirmation bias, but _there's no harm in waiting_.




I am not getting a dog right now because I am currently in college. I am planning out for when I graduate so I am prepared. I am adding an extra semester onto degree plan (engineer so it happens a lot). Taking two extra classes so I will have lots of time to train the dog during the semester. I want to train the dog before I become full time- where I will have less time to work with the dog. Once I am fulltime, however, my location should be very stable for a period of time.


----------



## tori1323

tori1323 said:


> I am not getting a dog right now because I am currently in college. I am planning out for when I graduate so I am prepared. I am adding an extra semester onto degree plan (engineer so it happens a lot). Taking two extra classes so I will have lots of time to train the dog during the semester. I want to train the dog before I become full time- where I will have less time to work with the dog. Once I am fulltime, however, my location should be very stable for a period of time.


I partially have to plan this far ahead because they have us sign leases a year in advanced. So I usually have to look 2 years ahead on housing


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## WIBackpacker

tori1323 said:


> I would like to do agility with the dog, take on daily runs, and backpacking. Which as a side note I have heard GSD dogs are not the best breed to go backpacking with because of the slope of their back.


Chuckle. Quite false, I promise. 

It is an excellent breed for backpacking.


----------



## tori1323

WIBackpacker said:


> Chuckle. Quite false, I promise.
> 
> It is an excellent breed for backpacking.



I have never actually gone backpacking with a dog before so I still have a lot of research I plan on doing for this. The quick research I did suggested it was bad (or not ideal) for bigger breeds to go backpacking because hard on their joints. Then there was also something about GSD really should not be carrying anything because of the slope of their back. There was a potential for them getting injured.


----------



## Jax08

tori1323 said:


> I was going to try to go through a rescue. Texas has a lot of rescues for both GSD, border collies, and Aussies. Why I was looking more specifically at breeds. My friend had a border collie aussie mix and I LOVED their dog. I would love to find a mix because from previous research a mix is great if you can find them.
> 
> 
> Now, I am more aware of the working dog difference. Originally from San Diego... there's not a huge need for working dogs there. So not a difference that I would've been faced with a lot. Texas, though, it will have to be something I am more careful with.
> Shatzie was from Wyoming tho, and I think she was bred more to be more of a working dog.


 I just lost my pound puppy in December at 10. There will never be another like her. Purebred, adopted at 12 weeks from a shelter. There will forever be a hole in me. So don't discount adopting for your first dog.


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## Jenny720

I have grown up adopting dogs from bide-a-wee and the local pound they all kind of chose us and they all turned me into a crazy dog lover!


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## Sabis mom

tori1323 said:


> To be fair... Shatzie was not close to 100 lbs. Kiana is a 100 lbs. Both females. Shatzie was also the runt of her liter. Shatzie was bred to be more of a work dog compared to Kiana. The other German Shepherds I dealt with where males and all 100 lbs. Which I understand you don't want them to be big because that means they're more likely to have hip problems. My uncles German Shepherd's (male and 100 lbs) back legs have given out and its sad. He's also really old and the last survivor from the litter.


The GSD is supposed to be a medium sized dog. Not 100lbs. My old female was a moose at about 82lbs in working trim. My current female weighs in somewhere around 50lbs.
Irresponsible breeding has caused an influx of poorly bred 100lb dogs floating around and most have serious underlying issues to go along with that.


----------



## tori1323

Jax08 said:


> I just lost my pound puppy in December at 10. There will never be another like her. Purebred, adopted at 12 weeks from a shelter. There will forever be a hole in me. So don't discount adopting for your first dog.


I'm sorry for your loss.  I know the feeling. The dogs grew up with died while I was away at college and I was devastated. Shatzie got cancer so I couldn't be there when they put her down. You can for sure get good dogs in the pound. I am not even looking for a pure bred. Mutts sometimes live longer. We adopted mutts from the pound and they lived much longer than the pure breds. I look more to rescues sometimes than pounds because my experience with pounds was they usually have only boxers. Not always, but normally what you will find (at least the ones I have been to). They're sweet dogs but I do not want one.


----------



## WateryTart

Jax08 said:


> Go to the shelter. Find a smaller dog that fits your personality and enjoy them until you are able to have the dog and breed you want.


This, or wait until you are able to have the dog you want. (I'm coming at this as someone who got a cat as a placeholder pet because I couldn't have a dog, married a cat person now turned dog person, and I tell you, I regret those cats now. I would truly love to be a two-dog, zero-cat household, but I won't be getting that wish for another 6-10 years because our 10 and 12 year old cats are very healthy, so I am stuck.)



tori1323 said:


> I have never actually gone backpacking with a dog before so I still have a lot of research I plan on doing for this. The quick research I did suggested it was bad (or not ideal) for bigger breeds to go backpacking because hard on their joints. Then there was also something about GSD really should not be carrying anything because of the slope of their back. There was a potential for them getting injured.


An immature dog who isn't fully physically developed - maybe. Or if you ask them to carry an unreasonable load. But if you are smart about it, hiking and backpacking are great activities for a GSD. I've not gone backpacking since I was a teenager, but I would heavily consider going now because my dog would love it so much.


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## WIBackpacker

The traits that make a dog enjoyable (or a miserable headache) on long outdoor trips go far beyond their pack mule / weight bearing capacity.

Athleticism, obedience, adaptability, ability to settle (!!!) and sleep anywhere in all weather, iron clad digestive system. 

The gear on their back is secondary.


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## Muskeg

I adopted my first dog at the pound and loved him dearly. We went on many backpacking adventures together, and he was 81 lean, tall lbs and did great. 

Don't discount a good pound dog.


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## gsdluvr

Jax08 said:


> I would get a German Shepard. It's the French version of a German herding dog.


LMAO!!!:grin2::grin2:


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## LaRen616

I agree with those that say to adopt a dog from the shelter or pound. 

My Hound puppy came from the shelter, she was adopted with her brother by a lady. The lady discovered after adopting them that the male was deaf. She decided it would be too hard to keep both and felt it would be easier to find a home for the female. She gave the female to a Veteran with ptsd. He ended up homeless and living in his car and a motel room with the puppy before his friend said he could move in with them. The friend has allergies to animals and said the puppy couldn't come with. They needed to find her a home asap so I said I would keep her until they found a permanent home for her. I had every intention on just having her for a couple of days. I fell in love with her after one day. I don't normally like female dogs, I have never been interested in owning a Hound and I am mainly into purebred dogs and was going to get a Doberman. But I LOVE this puppy. She's absolutely perfect. Just an awesome, fun, smart, loving, well behaved puppy. 

She has changed my mind about rescues and mutts. I would definitely adopt a puppy from a shelter. The fact that I am her 3rd home just makes me believe that we were meant to be.


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## car2ner

I had a ridgie / something mix. She was never at the pound. She was owner released to us. After we taught her that our house had rules, she was a most excellent dog.

I loved my little whippet / beagle mix (or at least that was the vet's best guess) but she was a bit neurotic. 

So I'd say, sure, look at rescues and adoption events but be strong. It may take awhile to find that perfect dog.


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## Nigel

tori1323 said:


> One of my co-workers has one... I would agree with that statement. They seem extremely hard to train.. I want something easier to train.
> 
> 
> I would like to do agility with the dog, take on daily runs, and backpacking. Which as a side note I have heard GSD dogs are not the best breed to go backpacking with because of the slope of their back.


Gsds do just fine hiking, mine have many many miles on and on off trail. We go to the remote areas of the pnw and aside from a few damaged toenails which can happen with any breed, we’ve had no problems. 

None of mine carry a pack. Mine prefer to drink whatever water we pass on the trail and I carry the food. I have them pack some of my gear during hoot owl (firewood season), but not while hiking. We’re going on a hike tomorrow and my eight year old female will be going with us. Sometime soon I want to get her a harness suitable for climbing/rappelling. We found a couple places last year and wished I’d had her set up for this.


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## Kyrielle

tori1323 said:


> One of my co-workers has one... I would agree with that statement. They seem extremely hard to train.. I want something easier to train.
> 
> 
> I would like to do agility with the dog, take on daily runs, and backpacking. Which as a side note I have heard GSD dogs are not the best breed to go backpacking with because of the slope of their back.


Get one with a straight back, then. There are quite a few breeders out there who breed to the older standard where the GSD had a straighter back. They still have the appropriate slope when stacked, but standing normally their back is either straight or very minimally sloped.


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## Sabis mom

Kyrielle said:


> Get one with a straight back, then. There are quite a few breeders out there who breed to the older standard where the GSD had a straighter back. They still have the appropriate slope when stacked, but standing normally their back is either straight or very minimally sloped.


:headbang:


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## Kyrielle

Sabis mom said:


> :headbang:


What? Physics correct or not, there are ones like that. Maybe they want a straighter back one. :|


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## dogfaeries

I've never heard that you can't go backpacking with a GSD.


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## WIBackpacker

dogfaeries said:


> I've never heard that you can't go backpacking with a GSD.


This thread is the first I've ever heard of such. 

A dog's angulation or lineage isn't going to ruin your trip. The first dog I took on trips was a humane society all-American. A dog doesn't even need to carry anything to accompany you on a backpacking trip, if you choose. 

A dog that is afraid of thunderstorms, a dog with debilitating diarrhea, a dog that cannot settle down and sleep in strange surroundings, a dog that won't eat in pouring rain, a dog that will only eat Brand X Gourmet Elite Limited Ingredient Squid Food - can (and probably will) ruin your trip.


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## dogfaeries

Yes, I was a little confused. Carly’s daughter, who is ASL, goes hiking and backpacking. She’s a SAR dog, and has the usual ASL angulation.


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## wolfy dog

Just visited a farm to pick up meat for the dogs and met a Anatolian X Pyrenese and a Maremma pup. Lovely, lovely and beautiful dogs! They were friendly, well built and if I had lived on a farm I would seriously consider one.


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