# CARE protocol for reactive dogs



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

It has been a while since I posted regularly. Guess I have been busy with my dog! Background... I have a 4 1/2 yr old female GSD which I have owned since she was 11 weeks. At some point she got very reactive to other dogs. Would turn into Cujo when seeing a dog. She dragged me down more than once. I have tried so many things....treats, choke collar, prong collar, distractions, harnesses, e collar, flooding, reactive dog class, avoidance of other dogs....and several different trainers. She remained reactive. 
Earlier this year I was directed to a FB group called Reactive dogs, which then directed me to the CARE website. I started using their protocol about 2 months ago and the results have been amazing. My girl is still reactive but getting less so all the time. It requires work and patience but it seems to be paying off. It is great to see her be more comfortable and relaxed around other dogs. Time will tell if this is more effective than any of the stuff I tried before. 
Just thought I would offer this suggestion to those who are dealing with reactive dogs.....


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Or you can send it to me and ill fix it in three sessions


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I don't doubt that you could....but I am not near NC. And I have been forced to learn a lot that perhaps I wouldn't have if I let someone else "fix' her. If I had to do it all over again, well....20/20 hindsight is an amazing thing.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Great info! Can you share the website link?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

To be fair if I'd have been the one to fix her I'd have taught you how and you'd have known it anyway without all that trouble


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

careforreactivedogs.com
It's an interesting site.Explains operant conditioning,classical conditioning,desensitization,etc.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Katdog5911--

I am for all that works. I took lessons with two different behaviorist trainers (one was a dog reactivity class and the other was for private lessons for reactivity) who did not want any corrective collars, unhappiness, etc. All to no avail. I went to Schutzhund and the trainer said, "He doesn't know he isn't supposed to do that" (act like a maniac when he saw other dogs). "He needs a correction!"

Unbelievable turnaround. My boy needed to focus on me or take a correction. My dog needed one of those awful things that my two behaviorists couldn't stand--a serious correction for not focusing on me when told to "fuss" (heal looking at me). (He rebounds from correction quickly.)

What I know is, that if you don't give up, you'll find the right method if you keep looking to address whatever problem that arises. Good luck and glad you found something that works for you


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I skimmed through the site and I did in fact use lots of the things they suggested, but I did use a prong. It worked for us because it was self correcting, I never had to correct him but I had control over him. It took us about 4 months but you would never know he was ever reactive now. He is really a perfect dog. When I say 4 months I mean everyday at the same locations, moving closer to other dogs after about a week. We started about 20 ft from the entrance and one dog to 20 ft and two dogs then 15 ft one dog, then two dogs, etc. then we moved to the park. Always end in a positive note and have lots of patience. Once you get there, it's the best feeling ever.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I skimmed through the site and I did in fact use lots of the things they suggested, but I did use a prong. It worked for us because it was self correcting, I never had to correct him but I had control over him. It took us about 4 months but you would never know he was ever reactive now. He is really a perfect dog. When I say 4 months I mean everyday at the same locations, moving closer to other dogs after about a week. We started about 20 ft from the entrance and one dog to 20 ft and two dogs then 15 ft one dog, then two dogs, etc. then we moved to the park. Always end in a positive note and have lots of patience. Once you get there, it's the best feeling ever.


That's a great way to do it. Wish more people put in the effort.


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I skimmed through the site and I did in fact use lots of the things they suggested, but I did use a prong. It worked for us because it was self correcting, I never had to correct him but I had control over him. It took us about 4 months but you would never know he was ever reactive now. He is really a perfect dog. When I say 4 months I mean everyday at the same locations, moving closer to other dogs after about a week. We started about 20 ft from the entrance and one dog to 20 ft and two dogs then 15 ft one dog, then two dogs, etc. then we moved to the park. Always end in a positive note and have lots of patience. Once you get there, it's the best feeling ever.


Very encouraging


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Ballif-Why did you live so far away when I needed you? lol

My girl is pretty low drive. I know that my past mistakes contributed to her becoming more reactive. I am not at all against prongs etc. I agree a proper correction at the right time is worth its weight in gold. And mine still gets one if necessary for refusing things that I know she knows how to do.... 

That particular site (CARE) just clarified things for me that other people had told me but for some reason didn't get through my thick skull. And it is there to look over whenever I "forget". 

In the end, there are many tools we can use for our dogs. We just have to find the one that works for us.

Llombardo-that is where we are now...working under threshold and slowly moving closer. I chose not to use the prong anymore because I found the tool that seems to work for us...a front clip harness AND a flat buckle collar with 2 leashes. She probably doesn't need both but I do! I need to feel in control over the situation. It really is a great feeling when things start to work!!

She actually got nose to nose with a dog at the rehab pool we have been going to. And she wanted to play! (situation very under control with knowledgeable people and totally cool other dog) So I know she isn't really an "I want to eat your dog" kind of dog. She just learned to react in this negative way due to some bad past experiences and me... But we are both learning. 

Anyhow, we have made some great strides toward peaceful walks...lol Just wanted to give anyone struggling with reactivity another tool to put in their box. Even if you don't use or totally follow everything the CARE site recommends, it is full of interesting information.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Moriah said:


> Katdog5911--
> 
> I am for all that works. I took lessons with two different behaviorist trainers (one was a dog reactivity class and the other was for private lessons for reactivity) who did not want any corrective collars, unhappiness, etc. All to no avail. I went to Schutzhund and the trainer said, *"He doesn't know he isn't supposed to do that"* (act like a maniac when he saw other dogs). "He needs a correction!"
> 
> ...


Isn't it amazing? You wouldn't let your kids run amok thru a store screaming in other's faces without consequences so why do people think we can't say "No! Cut the Crap!" to our dogs.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

This is a great site. Training class helping so much work through this issue. Timing and knowing your dogs body language is the major factor. We are at the point for a long time that he can sit near or walk with another dog. We walked by a dog who appeared loose in his front yard to max but he had a electric fence. Max looked concerned for a second but i said lets go and we just continued to walk and he relaxed .We walked with my moms dog awhile back he did go to smell her nose to nose and he did nip her nose. There was no marks at all. I know he is not ready for dog to dog contact. He is a very playful dog and with time i can see him warming up. I do think he will improve as he gets older with addition to the work we put in but i will have to find out in due time. I just don't have access to a calm mellow non interested dog which i think would help a lot.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I like the site a lot and will be spending some time on it**. I think better dissecting the roots of aggression -- yes some dogs are punks and just need to be corrected but many are coming at it out of a fear base and harsh correction can backfire.

One challenge I face with 100% behaviorists is there being zero point at which correction helps or at which a prong collar is a useful tool. The emotional reaction often eliminates folks from looking rationally at it - used properly-not painful but is if used improperly. But I could say the same of people wanting to only use correction. Each dog is so different. 

**right now I am working with a dog who has some triggers due to a recent round of being attacked by another dog and harshly corrected for trying to protect herself. She is a fundamentally sound dog so I think we are working through it and her prior handler actually had made good strides towards doing the same. Right now we are cool around properly behaved dogs but she is a bit anxious around aggressive dogs or crazy dogs.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The reason physically correcting the dog sometimes backfires for these cases is really not because of the source of the fear/anger/excitement/frustration that caused the reactivity, that is in fact nearly useless information to fixing the issue. The main reasons it backfires is the correction comes way late, with too little intensity, or the trigger is removed or the dog removed from the trigger at the wrong time. Its an issue with bad procedure. Its important to learn from an expert.

Sounds counter intuitive but when a dog is blocked from an over the top expression of reactivity the fear/anxiety/anger resolves on its own. At the very least it makes counter conditioning the classical conditioned response way way easier.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am not 100% convinced of that. I really do think there probably is a middle ground and it depends on the dog. I do agree that bad timing can backfire and think corrections are not "all" bad.

The one I am working with now will get a heel command and is expected to look at me in the presence of another dog and she is lightly corrected for moving her gaze but if she goes in kujo mode as a response to a dog that went into that mode before she did I will remove her from the situation and try, motivationally, to work back in closer to it keeping into account her thresholds. 

Fortunately a neighbor has a little kujo and is wiling to help, knowing the dog I am working with is a little SAR dog who I want to completely ingore a dog going off at her. A harsh correction with a prong on a dog who is on the offensive will only ramp up the behavior. I know you were not suggesting that but that is part of the danger associated with simply correcting. And that is a case of timing being way too late. But , I want to build confidence that there is no threat and that I will not let anything happen, not just build compliance.

I think some dogs are innately more or less confident from the get go. Some are so nervy they can only be managed. Some are unflappable. and others somewhere in the middle.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

One of our key turning points was my neighbors brothers stable GSD. It was a dog outside our home and he was willing to help me out. At first there was barking, then he took them for a run. By the time they came back Midnite was fine with him.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> I am not 100% convinced of that. I really do think there probably is a middle ground and it depends on the dog. I do agree that bad timing can backfire and think corrections are not "all" bad.
> 
> The one I am working with now will get a heel command and is expected to look at me in the presence of another dog and she is lightly corrected for moving her gaze but if she goes in kujo mode as a response to a dog that went into that mode before she did I will remove her from the situation and try, motivationally, to work back in closer to it keeping into account her thresholds.
> 
> ...


The problem with that procedure is when the dog does lose it when you remove the dog from the situation (since it was based in fear because of a previous attack) you are reinforcing the response. If you're going to continue to do things that way you need to avoid that reaction at all costs because every time it happens you are taking steps backwards again.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would agree with you the goal is to avoid the reaction at all costs in the first place but it can be hard to avoid 100% of the time.


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I believe the CARE protocol has a 2 week period of avoiding all triggers so there is no chance to have a reaction. Settles the cortisol I think. Of course we don't live in a bubble so it is easier said than done. 
We have progressed to the point that if we get too close to another dog, and my girl goes over threshold, she will still settle a lot faster than before. Unless we get waaaaay too close...then it is time to just get out of Dodge. When she is in that deep she isn't learning anything anyway. 
How my girl reacts depends a lot on the other dog. (who according to my girl has no business on this earth...lol) Right now it needs to be a totally bomb proof dog with a dog knowledgable owner. And she does much better not in my immediate neighborhood.
We have been going in a big field right outside of a dog park. I can control our distance and not have to worry about any off leash dogs approaching us. This morning we got a little too close and she started barking but was easily redirected and moved a bit further back. 
I guess it will take some time for her (and me) to unlearn the bad habits we developed.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> This morning we got a little too close and she started barking but was easily redirected and moved a bit further back.


You're doing it very smart by controlling it all, but one subtle change to think about when you do get that little too close. Settle her down without redirecting and don't move away till she does settle down. Make her deal with it. The way you're going in increments is good, its not the same as flooding her or having a random meeting that sends her over the edge and she isn't thinking at all.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

*How would you settle the dog down*? I have the situation where the one I am working with is only reactive now when a dog starts charging and barking at her. I work to avoid the houses where I know that is likely to happen but have still had a few surprises.

I have not given a harsh correction under that circumstance which prompts a reaction from her, but I have grabbed her flat collar and gave her a firm no and walked away but then moved back into a comfortable distance, but hard to settle when a little yapper is bouncing up against his boundary fence or you round the corner and one on lead is going off on you.


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## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

I have been trying the CARE stuff with my very reactive dog.

This is a really frustrating issue. I want my dog to just chill and have a normal life, instead of screaming at every dog she sees. Her trainer told us not to come back after two sessions. I can't afford the $100+/hr behaviorist I was forwarded to.

Is this sort of thing a genetic flaw in temperament that I have to deal with? This dog is quite confident otherwise, very intuitive and nuts for anything that moves. She is one of the smartest dogs I have ever had. 

To make it worse, she is different types of reactive depending on the dog.
Large dogs? She is more unsure, more vocal, but stays next to me.
Staring at her/aggressive? She completely loses it. Like...ridiculous. She tries to fly.
Small dogs? Must be destroyed.
Small dogs barking at her? Must be destroyed now, and just about jumps out of her skin to accomplish it.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Baillif what method do you use?


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## Jayfeather (Dec 28, 2014)

katdog5911 said:


> I chose not to use the prong anymore because I found the tool that seems to work for us...a front clip harness AND a flat buckle collar with 2 leashes.


Lol, I tried using two leashes once, I had one on a head collar and the other on his flat buckle collar. It was working fine when we went to the dog park to practice, but the people inside saw me approaching the fence and immediately moved their own dogs to the small dog enclosure. I guess they thought he was going to eat them or something.


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