# Malamute bit my 13 mo old daughter in the face



## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*This dog is my mother in law's dog that is 14 yrs old. We are currently living with her until we find our house to buy. We had literally only been home for maybe 10 minutes. My wife let the 3 dogs inside the house and was making Amaylie dinner. I usually keep the Malamute outside because I never do trust him at all. As soon as I said , "I think we need to put him outside especially with food around", he bit her. I jumped up and got him away from Amaylie.. Then my wife picked Amaylie up and said, "we need to go". So after I saw her face I kicked the dog so hard in the ribs he tried biting me too.. He better be getting put down monday, but my mother in law is hiking and won't be home until later today. She doesn't even know it has happend yet. 

We are all to blame for this. That was the worst part of watching Amaylie in pain and going through it all. The Malamute has bit my mother in law before we ever lived here...twice.. So she should have had him put down a long time ago.. And then we should have never moved in here.. And then we should have never allowed him inside the house. I feel so bad because I knew better and was just getting ready to get him outside before it happend. Sucks. Well, Amaylie got 4 stitches in her face (two per deep wounds).. 

This also sucks to say, but this really makes me feel like having ANY dogs around might not be worth it. I feel like getting rid of all of them right now and that is hard to say. I mean, he almost got her eye. Scares me. Sorry the picture was with my phone. I will post an after pic later today.








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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

OMG, I feel so bad for your family. Sad reminder to be extra vigilant with dogs around babies.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Oh my, that poor little baby. Thank God that her eye and ear were spared, there was not a second bite, and the bite was not deeper into the facial muscles.


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## Strana1 (Feb 9, 2008)

Sending healing thoughts your way for Amaylie and your family.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* I just pray she doesn't get scarred mentally or anything from it.. She will have two scars on her face, but we need to keep her out of the sun the best we can for a year and keep vitamin E on it in hopes of the scars fading.*


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*Thats what I thought, too.. We were literally 2 feet away from her when it happend. I was on the computer and my wife facing the microwave.. So neither of us saw it coming...But I dred the thought of wonder if he had a whole minute to do damage if we ran outside real quick or went to the bathroom.. Makes me sick *


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'm sorry this happened.

We all have "what on earth was I thinking???" moments - I'm sorry this one turned out this way.

There's a lesson here for every one of us - 
Dogs and toddlers, despite the cute photos posted in other threads, can be a very bad mix for both.


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## jax (Feb 10, 2009)

darn...scary


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I am sorry this happened. I am glad you got your daughter in right away for medical treatment. I hope she has a very speedy healing. My compassion is for your sweet little girl.

I however do hope the dog does not suffer because he was put into this situation. My compassion is for the dog, too.

My compassion is also for both parents also-- this was scary. Wishing the very best for all involved here.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfI am sorry this happened. I am glad you got your daughter in right away for medical treatment. I hope she has a very speedy healing. My compassion is for your sweet little girl.
> 
> I however do hope the dog does not suffer because he was put into this situation. My compassion is for the dog, too.
> 
> My compassion is also for both parents also-- this was scary. Wishing the very best for all involved here.


I agree whole heartedly.

I wish your daughter a speedy recovery.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What an awful bite, and it could have been much worse. Good thing you were right there and able to remove the dog. 

There is a reason you did not trust the dog around your kid. I would not force your mother in law to put down her dog. She may choose to do so, but you are living in her home. An old dog, 14 years, is like a child to her. If her four year old hit your daughter with a hammer, you would not require the child to be "put down." At the same time dogs are not children. 

I think that you need to sit down with your MIL and explain that you need to keep the baby and the dog completely separated from this point forward. The dog probably has two years or less to live anyway, has obviously not been socialized with children, or has some type of illness or pain that is increasing its aggression. 

It is horrible what happened to your little girl, but when you are living under another person's roof, it is really hard to make demands because of that situation. 

She may choose to put the dog down. She may not, and I hope that you can understand that, or move out.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Ouch I am so sorry that happenend.

Ya know when I was 7 I was bit in the face by a malamute too. He took off almost my entire left cheek. My mom got those vitamin E pills. She used to poke a hole in them and squeeze the vitamin in the hole in my face. It helped tremendously. So 24 years later you can see the scar on my face but its hard to notice. I usually keep a bit of a beard so you cant really see it at all. 

But try the vitamin e, and keep up on the doc visits. I swear it helped me.


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## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

Oh my god! Poor baby! I am so sorry that happened...I hope she will recover quickly and without any permanent damage.

Just thought I'd add that last week one of my clients had to put his dog down for something similar. He adopted this dog through a breed rescue. He was a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier that had been taken to the Vet to be PTS by his family for biting everyone in the family. Children included. The Vet said that they should give the dog the breed rescue. 
Well, my client had the dog for over two years and last week, late in the evening when he was getting ready to go to bed, his dog attacked him. Badly! The fight lasted over 15 minutes and the owner had to spend 5 hours in the emergency room getting stitched up! He has to go to a hand specialist to make sure he doesn't have permanent damage to his hands and arms.
He is having an autopsy done on the dog to see if he had a brain tumour or something.

It seems that the original family had a good reason to ask to have their dog PTS.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>OMG! This is terrible.







I feel sorry for the baby. I hope she'll get over this experience and not fear dogs as a result.

I'll probably get flamed here but kicking the dog in the ribs served only to vent anger and nothing more. Something needs to be done about the dog whether it be re-homed (given to an animal behaviorist or something along those lines) or sadly put down.</span>


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Oh my goodness, I hope your little baby girl will be okay. Along with the vitamin E, try that Mederma stuff. I have heard good things about it. Yes, I agree. The decision to put down the Mal needs to be your mom's. He should first go to the vet and see if any medical issues caused the bad behavior. 
I have a permanent resident here who now has a bite history. Fortunately, it was a one tooth straight line, which was very small. But, it was still on a child's face, which is unacceptable. 
The circumstances behind the whole thing stunk and that is why he will now stay with us forever. 
He was adopted by a great family. Unfortunately, the wife had very little dog experience, and the husband was working a lot of hours. Pauly, escaped the first night he was with them. He was unclipped from his leash after a walk, however, they weren't completely in the door and he backed out between the wife's legs and took off. We found him the next day, but from being out all night, he got sick from eating who knows what and even with Frontline on, was covered with little ticks. The family took him to the vet, who applied Vectra. He had a reaction to it and was sick for a week. 
Then, they took him to visit their father, who is in a nursing home. Well, going back out to the car, he was giving both the children a ride on his wheelchair. Just about the time the hubby was putting Pauly in the car, the wheelchair tipped, spilling everyone on the ground, and of course, the husband ran over, leaving the car door open. Well, off goes Pauly. They didn't tell me about this escape until after the fact and he was found. He had been missing about 36 hours and again, was sick from whatever he ate. 
Then, three days into his medicine, they have company over who had three little boys. Pauly was left unattended with all the children in the game room and after a bit was growling at the one little boy who wouldn't leave him alone. Long story short, mom comes in to remove him from the situation, and the little boy slips in again to pet him, Pauly snapped and caught him with a tooth. 
Still unacceptable, but there certainly were a lot of unfortunate circumstances. 
He is back with us now, back to his completely happy self and probably just needs to stay here.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

This does not seem like an isolated incident.


> Originally Posted By: MXpro982 The Malamute has bit my mother in law before we ever lived here...twice.. So she should have had him put down a long time ago


While I do have compassion for the dog, a 14 year old dog with a double previous bite history and then bites a 4 year old in the face is not stable. Maybe it is old age, maybe it is a sight thing, I don't know. Would I trust the dog, no. 

Maybe I am harsh because I was attacked by a Malamute when I was about 10 years old. I knew this dog it was my cousins dog we had always played ball. Well good thing it was winter, back in those days heavy winter coats were almost like bite suits, none of the fancy light weight material we have now. Any way my cousin walked around the corner of the house, the dog brought me the ball and I did like I always did, but something was wrong. He was crouched, giving this really low growl and his eyes looked freaky. I broke eye contact and moved very slowly to stand up, when I did he launched at me and I threw my arm up in front of my face. Well he had a really good grip on my arm and was trashing me around. All I remember was trying to keep to my feet and not go down and calling for help. My favorite jacket was wrecked, my sweatshirt was wrecked, my arm was swelling up. So I had to go to the hospital to be checked out. Luckily I didn't have a broken arm but the bones was bruised and lots of soft tissue damage. This was a dog I knew and played with. Something snapped in his head, he was quarantined but he was never the same even with his owners. He was PTS after the quarantine period

So things happen. But with a previous bit history I am not sure I would take the chance of the dog being around my young daughter.

I hope you little one heals fast and there are no scars or lingering effects. Don't over react to this with your dogs. I was older but I don't have dog fears or even Malamute fears. 

Val


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

Wow, what an awful experience! That is a horrible bite! I don't blame you one bit for your actions. I would've kicked the crap out of him too. Maybe not the "best" way to handle it but attacking my child would definately cause the dog a lot of pain too! 
I am with you on having him put down. You said he has bitten his owner before and now this! There are a million things you can do to help make the situation as safe as possible, but we are only human and these incidents take only a fraction of a second to occur. I would never feel comfortable having a known biter anywhere near a child. Maybe you could have him boarded somewhere instead until you move out if his owner doesn't want to put him down. I think rehoming him is very difficult at best and most rescues won't take dogs with a bite like that. They have sooo many great dogs that like kids that need homes!
Best of luck for your little girl and her recovery, keep us updated!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Poor baby! Good thing you were there supervising so closely!!

I was bit in the face (similar to what your daughter has except mine circled one eye) by a GSD when I was 2 and a half. I don't have any physical scars and I do not remember the incident.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfI am sorry this happened. I am glad you got your daughter in right away for medical treatment. I hope she has a very speedy healing. My compassion is for your sweet little girl.
> 
> I however do hope the dog does not suffer because he was put into this situation. My compassion is for the dog, too.
> 
> My compassion is also for both parents also-- this was scary. Wishing the very best for all involved here.


I agree with Patty. I hope your daughter recovers without incident and that the dog is not punished for being a dog.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

IMO, it's not an automatic that the dog needs to be pts. Two previous bites sounds bad but there's next to no real info given here. Were they nips or bites? Follow through or snap & retreat? Broken skin or unbroken? Provoked or unprovoked? Puppy or adult? The op is definitely not unbiased regarding this dog. (I can understand that, but the dog still deserves a fair review of all that's happened & what can or s/b done)

Selzer & Patti, I agree with what you've posted. The dog needs & deserves compassion, too. Yes, it's true the dog needs to be kept from the child, BUT it was the parents who gave the dog access to the child, NOT the owner. The brunt of the responsibility for this is (IMO) overwhelmingly with the child's parents, not the elderly dog, or its owner.

Shayne, I hope your daughter has a rapid & complete recovery. I hope too, she isn't too terribly traumatized by this. Mom was bitten by a rabid dog & remains terrified of them to this day. (Although she believes the greater trauma was when her beloved dog was shot b/c it killed chickens) A friend's daughter rec'd almost 200 stiches when her face was ripped open by one of their dogs. She was petting & playing with dogs before the stitches had been removed. (Within 2yrs her scars had faded to near invisibility)


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerThis does not seem like an isolated incident.
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: MXpro982 The Malamute has bit my mother in law before we ever lived here...twice.. So she should have had him put down a long time ago
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I think you make an interesting point. My old Lab, Snickers temperament started to change as he got older. Things that never bothered him in the past, started to irritate him. He became grouchy and moody. When the vet tested his blood, it turned out his thyroid levels were low. Low thyroid could adversely effect mood and temperament.</span>


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## GSDLVR76 (Aug 6, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs<span style='font-size: 11pt'>OMG! This is terrible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to agree w/ 3dogs. There was no reason to attack the dog. The dog was doing what a dog does. The child and the dog should have never been left unattended esp if there was a bite history. IMO, it should be your MIL decision regarding if he should be PTS, not yours.

I wish a speedy recovery to your dd and that there is no physiclogical effects from this incident.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

here are my thoughts. knowing that the dog has bitten before i would have never let the dog around my daughter. i also have a young daughter that is 18 months old and have to be very carefull with her around other dogs because she LOVES dogs. tyson is very docile with my daughter. i am boarding my trainers 2.5 year old narcotics dog as they are on vacation and this dog is around there young kids. i know shadow and i trust her to an extent but not like i do tyson so i make sure that when shadow and my daughter are in the same room together they are to leave eachother alone and same goes with other dogs that my daughter is around includeing other family dogs that can be trusted.

at the same time i can understand how you feel. no im not calling you a bad parent or dog owner but i hope that this is a good lesson to be learned. your lucky it could have been worse. she may have a few scars to live with but your daughter will be ok. as for the dog, and this being his second bite i wouldn't think twice about puting him down. if it was at my house i wouldnt have thought twice to put a bullet in his head before i went to the hospital...


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## Julie'somom (Jun 13, 2004)

Okay, this dog has shown that he is not to be trusted. The old guy is fourteen years old and likely doesn't have a long time to live. That is a sad thing. But realistically, my children always came before my pets. The world is full of "shoud'ves " . We "shouldft the dog outside.WE shouldhave been watching the dog more carefully. What happened can not be undone. I personally believe a dog that bites with no reason is like a loaded gun. There are thousands of wonderful loving dogs in this world. Why take a chance with one like this. I would put the dog down. He has lived his life. I am not saying this because I hate dogs. Obviously that is not true. But this dog does not recognize humans as the alpha. That is not a good place to be.

julies'omom


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* The dog has HD, can barely hear, practically blind... He has plenty of reasons not to be living anymore. In nature, this dog would have been dead a lot time ago. His life has been dragged on for my MIL's satisfaction. When he bit my MIL, he drew blood both times.. Resulting in doctor visits. Yes, you are right, the dog NEVER should have been with her in the same room. It will never happen again. I am glad that I was right there. Yes, the kick was frustration.. He deserved a lot more! If I didn't have to drive her to the hospital who knows what I would have done to him (quite the adrenaline rush seeing your baby get picked up with blood all over). 

MIL wants to put the dog down (prior to this, she still doesn't know it even happend yet).. She has wanted to for a while, but she can't bring herself to do it. Now is a great time for her to put him out of his misery. He really has a hard time getting around, etc.. His quality of life is low. It would do everyone a favor if he was PTS. I understand that MIL would be sad to watch him go. I can't imagine how I am going to do it someday. But if my dog ever bit me...twice.. and then a baby.. It would be gone one way or another. *


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Julie'somomOkay, this dog has shown that he is not to be trusted. The old guy is fourteen years old and likely doesn't have a long time to live. That is a sad thing. But realistically, my children always came before my pets. The world is full of "shoud'ves " . We "shouldft the dog outside.WE shouldhave been watching the dog more carefully. What happened can not be undone. I personally believe a dog that bites with no reason is like a loaded gun. There are thousands of wonderful loving dogs in this world. Why take a chance with one like this. I would put the dog down. He has lived his life. I am not saying this because I hate dogs. Obviously that is not true. But this dog does not recognize humans as the alpha. That is not a good place to be.
> 
> julies'omom



Unfortunately, I have to agree. I have been around these dogs for years, and I know that they are great dogs, for the most part, but, unlike GSDs, they just don't have that stable playing field when it comes to mentality. I have seen mals go 12-13 years, and never curl a lip, but it is an exception rather than a rule. So, I will get flamed for this, but the mal in question has really sealed his own fate. And the safest thing for you now is to follow through.

To the OP, I am so sorry for your daughter. You are just so lucky it was not worse. My best wishes to you all.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

We don't really know what precipitated the bite. Nor do we have any history on the previous bites. Frankly, from the info guiven here, the 'loaded gun' might be no more than a low power bb gun. I haven't read anything here that screams 'executrion/death penalty', particularly without so much as a vet consult or the owner's thoughts.

It's no more fair to say this dog isn't to be trusted than to say the parents are negligent & irresponsible. Things do happen with even the best people & dogs. I certainly wouldn't rush to jail the parents. Nor would I jump to kill the dog.

Note, this is not the OP's dog. What happens with it is not, nor should it be, his decision. IF the situation is too risky (& perhaps it is) living elsewhere is a choice he & his wife can make.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Sounds like the old fella is lashing out because of what you just said.

1. he's in pain
2. he can't see
3. he can't hear

Anything startling like a unexpected touch or an active child could set him off. It probablly is time for him to go over the bridge...just because it sounds like he's been a good dog for 14 years but now, is so uncomfortable he is lashing out. Not fair to him or people.

I hope you understand this is probably what led to the bite...not really anyone's fault, just an animal in pain without the ability of his senses--traditionally a recipe for disaster. Do not let this one incident affect how you see other dogs including your own--they don't deserve to suffer for the actions of another animal. 

I hope your daughter the best in a speedy recovery!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I think the dog should have a behavior eval, and then have judgement passed... He is an old guy and you were in his home... You said you were both looking other ways, how do you know what caused the bite? An why on earth did you kick a senior dog hard enough to make him go for you too? He didn't do this out of malice nor had he premeditated the bite, he's an animal who acts on instinct and in the moment. A small, new creature coming to him in his home could have easily startled the old boy, my 16 year old bit me hard one day when I came home, he couldn't see or hear well, but realized who I was too late. I am not saying her injuries aren't serious, but by the looks of it he gave a "back off!" bite, a bite that would have left some cuts on the bony face of a puppy, but could tear off a human baby face, if he went into an attack your baby girl would be a lot worse off.

Now that I have said that, -I know flaming is on the way- I am DEEPLY sorry for what happened, neither you or your little girl should have had to go through that. She is bless that he didn't get a tooth into her ear or eye, and lucky he didn't bite too hard, goodness knows as strong as those dogs are bones could have been broken. I hope she recovers quickly... I hate seeing a babies hurt, having to go through my niece having surgery to remove a DEEP, big splinter was hard, I can't imagine how you feel. I'll send prayers your way


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

sad STORY
PS

what happened when your MIL informed?


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Sorry, but I have to agree that this dog would have been gone a long time ago in the wild and we humans have dragged his life on while he is in pain and confused. 
I think this 14 year old dog with so many health issues is past the point of behavior evaluation. 

Yes, he should have never allowed for them to be together but accidents happen. As OP stated he knows it should not have been allowed. 
You have to live with a dog you are able to trust so that when they do come across each other there are no bites.
There is no way I would keep a dog that bit anyone in my family.

Even a person like me, who will never have kids in favor of having dogs, understands the bond between parent and child. I don't think it's fair to attack OP because he acted out in defense of his daughter.
If people on the forum are willing to kick other unleashed dogs that run up to you on walks in order to protect your own dog, how are you different than this parent??
You have no right to judge.
Just my .02. 

I'm very sorry this happened to the OP, thankfully (even though it required stitches) this wasn't so bad. She'll end up with a scar and no permanent damage.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree, given what we now know about the dog's age, health, and bite history, I would think PTS is the most humane thing to do. Obviously the child is a higher priority, and a dog at this age and with these health problems cannot be expected to tolerate a child this age, nor would it be fair to him. It sounds like even before the child came into the picture, his quality of life was lower than what I would subject my dogs to.


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

I did NOT think I attacked OP???AND def would not JUDGE anyone till I walked a mile in their shoes.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I think we need to be very very very careful recommending or condoning euthanasia on a public Internet forum. We weren't there, we haven't assessed the dog, and don't really know what went on. We can offer possibilities but we need to be careful that the person who posts isn't going to take that info and run with it and end up being dead







wrong. 

I am a mom and I get it - I would be horrified to see such an injury to my child. I'm also a dog trainer and I can think of 100 reasons for a dog to bite someone that are circumstantial, preventable, and shouldn't (IMO) result in the death of the dog. 

Dogs have teeth, dogs can bite. We have to do all that we can to prevent these situations. Sometimes that means lethally removing the problem dog. However, given that his dog is elderly and does not belong to the OP, there are other things to consider. And even aside from all of that, right after a frightening incident like this is not the best time to make life and death decisions. Since the dog can be outside, it seems like keeping child and dog completely separate is the way to go here, at least until everyone directly involved can sit down and decide rationally what to do next.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I agree with both sides. but, sadly, the dog is the one who is suffering all around. He is old, blind and sore. suddenly there is a small child toddling around. and, lets face it, kids and their weird sounds and moves can freak out even a steady dog who isn't used to it.

if he can't see or hear well, it's most likely that she scared him and he reacted out of instinct (esp if he's in pain). and then you have an even bigger person attacking him in anger. OF COURSE he will try to defend himself.

add in that there is a history of bites, again that we don't know when or in what circumstances. Perhaps it would be best that he be put to sleep. Not necessarily because of the bites, but his health conditions that no doubt played a HUGE factor


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ttalldogI did NOT think I attacked OP???AND def would not JUDGE anyone till I walked a mile in their shoes.


Sorry that was definitely not directed at you.
I literally typed my post out and hit "Submit" at the bottom.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

ttall, I think Denali just hit the reply button, that wasn't aimed at you.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I have to agree kicking the dog in the ribs was pure and simple anger and probably not needed, the dog is old with a myriad if health issues and should never have been around the child.

That said..... the child's welfare does come first and if the OP cannot insure the 2 are never together the old dog will pay the price. 

I have compassion for this old dog. Old dogs get crabby and develop behavioral issues due to pain and have earned their right to be left alone. However it sounds like this may have been more a resource issue.

I hope your little girl heals quickly and without physical or emotional scars. 

If you all agree it is the dog's time, please be compassionate with him as he goes. 








to you guys.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofali
> If people on the forum are willing to kick other unleashed dogs that run up to you on walks in order to protect your own dog, how are you different than this parent??
> You have no right to judge.
> Just my .02.


The way I interpreted it was AFTER they got the dog away and inspected his child's face, he attacked the dog. I wouldn't hesitate to beat the crap out of a dog who was attacking my child, but if it had backed off I wouldn't continue my attack.

Having never personally met this dog, I can't give any real judgement on his health or stability. I just went through a very heated debate over a boxer biting his owner's brother, it got ridiculous, and I'm still incensed over it, so perhaps my bad mood leaked over here. 

I just believe in looking at everything from all angles, and giving chances. I think if his owner agrees, having him humanely put down would be kind, he's lived a long life, and might even be in pain.

ttall, I'm pretty sure Denali was speaking to me. 

EDIT*
I am also on the side of trying to find out what could be wrong with the dog because I have a 15 year old who is doing pretty well, and I would do my best to make sure she is out of her mind before I killed her. I do sometimes forget that not all dogs are so healthy in mind or body at her age.


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

Okay but think of it from the MIL position......just for a second imagine if someone came to live in your home for a bit, an unfortunate incident happen and they kicked the crap out of your senior dog.....then demanded you PTS said dog. What would you do if it was your dog? Would you put your dog to sleep or get it a medical eval to see what health problem is causing the nipping and biting? Is the dog on pain medicine or joint supplements? Suggesting just because one person doesn't think the quality of life is good to put the dog down is not right especially from a biased person. It was a horrible incident and I know how the OP feels because my son was bite in the stomach by the neighbors GSD when he was 4. But all of us should know better than to pass judgment so quickly on a senior dog. Especially one that we know has health problems and we do not know if he has been given any treatment for.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

In no way am I saying "Put this dog down now!!".
What I am saying is that this dog is simply not trust worthy to have around people in general. He's old and his quality of life sounds terrible, he's grumpy and because of it he's acting out and people are getting hurt. He's just past the point of being evaluated.

Personally, *I* would never keep this dog, but I'm not recommending anything.

Honestly, my post was not directed at anyone specifically. I just read a little bit of hostility for OPs actions in a few threads and didn't think it was fair.
We're all dog people here and we all feel just as bad for the dog as we do the little girl and her parents despite what he did.
But we have to consider that OP had to witness his flesh and blood get attacked.
Since she's just a baby she didn't even stand a chance in defending herself - that's definitely a traumatic experience for any parent and we have no idea how we would react in that situation.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Ah, sorry.. I thought you were directing at me since I said he should have a bhvr eval.

Gosh what a sad situation for everyone.


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

After going back and reading and re reading the OP's original post this does not sound like resource guarding....no growling is mention and with resource guarding 99.9 percent of the time there is growl warnings prior to an attack with resource guarding. From all information given it sounds very much like a fear bite. She made a noise, she was wearing something sparkly, she moved quickly, maybe waved her arms....something that startled the dog and caused fear to him. As unfortunate as it is the dog should not have been kicked after the fact and the two should be kept separate. I in no way feel that this incident constitutes him being PTS.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Fear biting alone probably doesn't constitute euthanasia, I agree. But what about quality of life?


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

I realize some posts were not directed to me MODS this might be more appropriate in aggression rather than pictures??? have some other thoughts to post will wait to see where this goes.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Many assumptions are being made concerning this dog’s health, temperament, quality of life & history with nothing more to go on than information provided by a distraught & angry parent who doesn’t even own the dog! Worse, lethal advice is being given based on these assumptions that are based on one biased person’s information.
Why oh why are people so quick to kill the dog? Should this poor dog be pts? I don’t know. NOTHING I’ve read in this thread convinces me that anyone else (including the OP) knows either. This deeply personal, very difficult decision is almost always made by a dog’s owner & vet. Even if the dog is dangerous & beyond help, that determination cannot be made here by people that have never directly observed or interacted with this dog. Nor can it be made by the OP.

As PupRescue stated earlier, _*"I think we need to be very very very careful recommending or condoning euthanasia on a public Internet forum. We weren't there, we haven't assessed the dog, and don't really know what went on. We can offer possibilities but we need to be careful that the person who posts isn't going to take that info and run with it and end up being dead wrong."*_ Stated a bit further on in the same post, _*"And even aside from all of that, right after a frightening incident like this is not the best time to make life and death decisions."*_...Amen & tyvm, PupRescue.


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: /!~DenaliFofaliFear biting alone probably doesn't constitute euthanasia, I agree. But what about quality of life?


That is where a vet consultation comes in not a biased opinion. We have no clue if this dog has ever been on pain medicine, x-rayed, joint supplements, or any pertinent medical information. Obviously if the dog was running around outside, came into the house by his own strength and power, and bite someone while standing on his own four legs the HD can not be that bad. If you check the senior section of this board there are many members that have dogs with HD and they stay with their owner until the very end when the sparkle is no longer in their eyes. That means that the dog can not stand from a lying position on their own and is no longer happy to be around. HD is not an automatic death sentence nor is blindness or deafness. My old girl is partially blind, deaf, and has spinal fusion but she still walks, runs, plays, and potties on her own while on pain meds and joint supplements. She does growl occasionally when she is startled and she has bitten the leg of my husbands pants when he stepped over her but the owner of senior dogs always knows the chances and can gauge the quality of the dogs life better than someone that does not live with the dog on a regular basis.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Obviously, I don't know what this old guys quality of life is like, but then again neither do the people that want to keep him going. Meanwhile, there are people getting bitten and it's not just children.


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## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

hate to be flamed but is it possible the events as stated are not documented?just not comfortable with the pictures as posted -sorry if I am being a jerk but as medical person not sure about pics posted.PLEASE prove me wrong.Just know that I did not attack OP in any post.just wondering what is happening here?still wondering what the actual owner of dog and owner of home thinks?Scary to put myself out there but pics seem PS


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

this will most likely make me quite unpopular but here goes,

First, I feel terrible for this little girl who may scarred not only physically but emotionally for the rest of her life, hopefully it will not be so.

Second, tho inexcusable, this dog will pay the price if it hasn't already. 

Third, from what I've read, in my opinion, it was like knowingly leaving a loaded gun in a room with a small child. VERY irresponsible.

This wasn't an 'out of the blue' bite, the dog had a history that was well known.

I feel very sad for not only this little girl but the dog as well.
Just one person's opinion.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

ttall -- That's an interesting observation. Is there anything specific or just overall? The bites I've seen didn't look like the picture.


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

Very interesting observation as I was focusing on the story and not the picture. The placement of the canine teeth in a dogs mouth are not set as far apart as the picture makes them appear to be and also the number of teeth between the canine teeth is incorrect.......hmmm


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Several posters have stated the dog needs to be pts. Others have stated this *might* not be necessary. An unbiased, professional assessment of his health, temperament & the situation involving the bite before making irreversible decisions is appropriate. Nobody is insisting he s/b kept going regardless. None of us, including the OP, are qualified to determine what needs to be done with this guy.




> Quote:Yes, the kick was frustration.. He deserved a lot more! If I didn't have to drive her to the hospital who knows what I would have done to him (quite the adrenaline rush seeing your baby get picked up with blood all over).


I'm curious...How angry & disgusted are you with yourself or your wife? You've painted this dog as a known biter who previously drew blood twice yet you (& your wife) had a baby within reach of the dog. I feel for you, your wife & especially your daughter, but the dog is not nearly as responsible for this awful situation as you & your wife. He most assuredly did NOT deserve a lot more.

This is not an attack. Humans make mistakes even more frequently than dogs. I've made my share & then some. However, abusing an incapacitated, elderly dog which you've described as being in terrible pain & with no quality of life is simply wrong.


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## jacksonpuppers (Jul 13, 2009)

How did he bite her because the wound does not look like a bite if the dog jumped from the side. Hmmmmmmm....


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: karrieHow did he bite her because the wound does not look like a bite if the dog jumped from the side. Hmmmmmmm....


My thoughts exactly I'm interested in knowing if she was lying down or sitting down and at what angle the bite came from. Looking from all angles I don't see a pattern that looks like a dog bite.....I keep looking and am coming up with nothing....


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I feel bad about the little gir's face-but she will react how you react, I am betting. So if you get angry and mad, she will get scared, if you get weepy and weird, so will she. Just like when they fall at the playground, appropriate sympathy for the ouchy but if we go ballistic, so do they. 

A child that age is really not going to remember this unless it is reinforced, I am pretty sure. I don't remember how scary my big first birthday cake was, but I saw pictures of me with it, and apparently it was terrifying. That didn't stop me from eating cake later on (how I wish it had). However if my parents had freaked along with me, taken the cake and smashed it on the floor and never let me look at another cake again, I am betting I would have some reaction (but no memory of the first cake) to them. 

So model calm and confident, clear headed thinking. Make wound cleanup a happy time, the Vitamin E pill fun and when YOU can have her around dogs where YOU are calm and enjoying them, then do so. 

As to the dog, it's 14 years old, and that's not an age (or depending on the dog and HOW they are aging-some are like 14 at 8) where I would put them in proximity of a child. Bite inhibition can lessen with pain and confusion. Just like people in fact-maybe not bite for us, but fight. They are too old and immoble for flight, so guess what is left. 

If you don't like the thought of being bitten, don't have any animal. They can all bite. If you don't know enough about a situation, the most irreversible option is not the one to put forth. 

If you've never had a dog that bites (yet) they can still be wonderful animals with great quality of life. I lost my two over the past year-both incredible teachers in so many ways, kept safe and set up to succeed in their senior years more so than ever. 

Now people reading this thread will hopefully think, and do better, because they know more now.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

I am so sorry that your girl got bit, it must be traumatizing for everyone! I don't agree with kicking the dog but I don't have kids so I can't imagine what is going through a parents head when they see their child bleeding and crying, scary I am sure, the adrenaline must have been pumping pretty hard. I can't blaime a senior dog who can't see or hear for biting a small moving blurr that its not familiar with, especially since its hips hurt and it probably feels vunerble with all its disabilites. I am not qualified to make a pts type decision so I can't tell you what you should do. 

As for the people starting to suggest its not a dog bite or the OP lied about how it happend, I am offended for that person so I can't imagine what they will feel when they read this! They already said they would post more pics of better quality later on, it seems to me it would be best to wait with allegations until you can get better pics, or if you are going to doubt them then atleast offer possible explenations and theories so you don't just seem like you are attacking the poster! (I'm not attacking you guys I am just saying that it seems wrong the way that you all are going about this if you do have doubts.)


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Tri-shepherd
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: karrieHow did he bite her because the wound does not look like a bite if the dog jumped from the side. Hmmmmmmm....
> ...


It really quite easy. And once you realize how it happened, you will know the little girl was very lucky. If you look carfully, you see the 2 big wounds, both made by the dogs right upper and lower fangs, and then on the left side, the dot pattern, because a lart part of the girls cheek was in the dogs mouth, and the molars would leave those marks. I saw something really similar back when I worked in the local shelter when we had a quarintine situation. The dog was a younger siberian husky, and his teeth were quite a bit sharper, and he severely injured a little boy. I saw the photos, and it was bad. The sibe in the end was PTS. This was his 3rd incident, too.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think the question a couple people had was if the girl was on the floor. which from the bite pattern she probably was (vs standing upright). I think that makes it even more likely that she startled the dog and he lashed out.

Agree with those who said that she likely won't remember it and will take her future behavior from her parents.


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: flyinghayden
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Tri-shepherd
> ...


Okay I can kinda see how that pattern is....say if she was upright at head level with the dog and he came straight on with poor site and caught the side of her face with the side of his mouth....kinda like he missed. Most dog bites that people see are straight on bites where you see the two puncture wounds from the incisors and normally very little or no other teeth marks...

And for the person stating that we were doubting the OP on what really happened I don't think anyone doubted what happened just trying to get a handle on exactly how it happened because it does not look like a "typical" bite wound. It makes it seem worse in a way to me that the child was face to face with the dog. She should not have been left in a position or place...not just with this dog....but any strange dog where she is in its face. It makes me question if she had tried to pet the dog or touched him in a way that startled him and should serve as a scary reminder to all parents not to leave their children with strange dogs around, especially senior dogs that can be very nippy.


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

All i'm saying is that when you type things out you lose a lot of meaning that you would have face to face with a person, if your not careful it sounds like an accusation, and if you say you don't think it was as the OP said it happend then you should offer another solution because if you don't then it again sounds accusing, and I don't want the OP after this horrible experience to feel accused of anything. Sure they shouldn't have left the girl alone with the dog at all but hindsight is 20/20 and sometimes ppl get careless after a busy day and the chaos of starting dinner, it doesn't fix the situation but ppl aren't perfect. I can see how this would be a dog bite, the malamute would have a huge mouth compared to this girl, not to mention her adorable chubby cheeks would cause for a distorted image and it looks like the dog got quite a bit of cheek in his mouth. It seems to me like she was bit from the side not facing the dog so she might have just startled him with his poor vision and hearing so he lashed out because he was already feeling vunerable due to old age and his disabilities.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm going to take this in another direction. When I was two I was crawling under a table and fell face first on a piece of glass. I was not given medical care for this cut, which certainly should have been sutured. I have a very noticeable scar on the left side of my chin.
The point is it will be very important for you moving forward to not make an issue out of the physical scarring that may occur, which will be far less than what I have because she had proper treatment. A young female has enough to worry in the self image department, and this is something that will make her unique, not lessen her worth in any way.. 
My scar is as much a part of my face as my nose is. I do not try to hide it and I am not embarrassed by it. I have never seen my face without it. As a matter of fact, I've had several men tell me they think it is sexy.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

"he's an animal who acts on instinct and in the moment"

So was I. I didn't inspect my daughter prior, I only saw my daughter face down with him over her and my wife, "







!" and then I saw blood...That was enough for me... I got up, and went to remove the threat from the situation.. I assure you that he has growled at me many times and has snapped at me before. Nor was it a "fear attack".. He was behind my daughter who was facing my wife.. He came over the top of her because she was trying to protect the food my wife was making for my daughter. He attacked because he wanted the babie's dinner. 

This dog is well beyond seeing a vet for an eval. He is most certainly a "loaded gun" waiting to go off.. He attacks my brother in law's cocker spaniel all the time. He growls at my GSD all the time (waiting for that attack too)... 

As far as me moving out of this house, you are very right. We are in the process of finding a house to buy right now.. I told my wife that if the dog doesn't go, I am taking my daughter elsewhere. 

And for the question asking me what I would do if MY dog did that... It would no longer be my dog!! I love my dog, but my daughter I love much more. But of coarse, if my daughter did something like shove a fork in the dog's eye, I would expect her to defend herself. This malamute wasn't defending himself. He was the aggressor. 

Like I said before, the MIL has WANTED to get the dog put down for months but can't bring herself to do it. She knows that this dog is just walking around half dead already. I am not still mad at the dog. I truly believe that there are many reasons why he is the way he is. My wife grew up with him since he was a puppy. He never used to be like this.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

"
I'm curious...How angry & disgusted are you with yourself or your wife? You've painted this dog as a known biter who previously drew blood twice yet you (& your wife) had a baby within reach of the dog. I feel for you, your wife & especially your daughter, but the dog is not nearly as responsible for this awful situation as you & your wife. He most assuredly did NOT deserve a lot more.

This is not an attack. Humans make mistakes even more frequently than dogs. I've made my share & then some. However, abusing an incapacitated, elderly dog which you've described as being in terrible pain & with no quality of life is simply wrong. "

*I am quite angry at myself! I knew better. But I did not make that dog bite my daughter. He bit her on his own! I don't consider my kick "abuse".. If that dog bit another dog like he did, I guarentee you that the other dog would have faught back! That is nature.*


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

She wasn't face to face.. He came over her left shoulder.. I was watching them just before it happend. They seemed fine for the moment and I was going to literally put him outside seconds before it happend. 

And she wasn't alone with the dog by any means. I was within three feet, and my wife was directly infront of the two of them.. Both dog and baby were facing my wife's back while she was doing stuff on the counter.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* haha that is true!! I think she will turn out just fine. She isn't afraid of my dog (the only one she has been in contact with since). And her scars we are going to treat the best we can over the next year to try and limit the color, etc..*


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Well then, if she's wanted him put down for a while, I guess it's pretty much decided. 

Thought I'd add.. 


"So *after* I saw her face I kicked the dog so hard in the ribs"

"So was I. I *didn't inspect* my daughter *prior*"

Your statements clash.. 

Again, I am really terribly sorry... I am just extremely cautious with my dogs, or others, and if kids are in the mix they are separated unless I have the dog on a leash. Even the sweetest, most even tempered dog can act like an animal once in a while. 

Good luck and a speedy recovery


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a problem with this. Someone said that we kick at strays when they come after our dogs. 

My problem is the son in law KNOWS the dog, that the dog is elderly, that the dogs suffers from hip dysplasia, that the dog is blind and deaf. 

So if you were walking down the street with your dog and walked into someone's yard and up to the dog you knew was blind, deaf, and dysplastic and it lashed out and bit your dog, would you kick it? 

Is really sounds like Mother in law and Son in law are not on the best of terms. Perhaps this is because Son in law must for some reason accept the hospitality of the mother in law which is really hard, not easy on a marriage at all. 

It sounds like the dogs have been and are a point of contention. 

Forcing the mother in law to euthanize an old dog because it is convenient for you will only make your stay there tougher. I think you need to use your imagination and figure out a way for the dog and your daughter to be able to coexist. If this means building a kennel in the basement or utility room for the dog when the mother in law is not there, and keeping the child away from the dog when she is. Or you need to move your family out. 

Remember that this is her dog that she has had for a lot of years. I would be mortified if something I did lead my parents to put Pip down. 

You have a much better position to bargain on when you are not living under her roof. You can say, we will visit, but the dog must stay outside or be crated while we have our daughter there. 

Blind dogs and deaf dogs and dysplastic dogs are all more likely to bite. They are at a terrible disadvantage. Knowing this to be the case, the answer is not to put the dog out of its misery, or to get it a physical, the answer is to keep the child away from the dog and the dog away from the child. 

The mother in law has been bitten twice by this dog. I have been bitten good twice by dogs I was caring for too. Serious bites that required medical attention. Neither dog was charged for the bites as they happened while I was breaking up dog fights. We do not know how the Mother in Law got bitten, but it may not have been anything to do with dominance or because the dog was bad. Dogs will often bite when in pain or if they believe that what you are doing to them will hurt them. If the mother in law does not hold it against the dog, than why are we allowing such evidence. 

The dog is the mother in law's dog. While I may believe it is time for poor old Pip to give up the ghost, it is not up to me. If I step on him and he turns and bites my leg and it bleeds, it is STILL none of my business. If my sister brings her kids over and they land on the old dog, and the dog bites the kid, it is STILL none of my business. 

If someone who was calling my house home, partaking of my hospitality, chose to go out and shoot my dog before taking his kid to the hospital, they would have their belongings on the treelawn before sunset. 

I have put a dog down for aggression. The decision to do so was mine. I held that dog when he was put down. I loved that dog. Just because a dog is old, blind, dysplastic, in pain, and having increasing aggression, does not mean that the owner of the dog does not care deeply for the dog.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I don't do it horribly often, but I agree with everything you've said, Selz.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Add to the scenario not only the fact that you and your wife and daughter have moved into the home, but that you brought a dog with you as well, Well, ya know, dogs need time to adjust. 

I need time to adjust. I cannot imagine what is going through this senior dog's mind right now. Your shep is the replacement, going to kill him, going to take his place. I don't know. But it sounds like living at Mom's while you try to purchase a home has been a major upset to the old dog. 

I think you should cut the old dog and your MIL some slack, and go and rent a place, or find somewhere to board your dog to put less stress on the whole situation. 

I think that moving your family in on the MIL has caused the upset. Sometimes there is no way around these thing. At these times we have to be tolerant. Even suggesting to her euthanizing her dog because of the stress you have caused is out of place in my opinion. 

If the dog is put down, the suggestion for euthanasia really needs to come from the MIL for the best results in keeping the family intact down the line. People have not spoken to each other for decades for less than this.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

First, what I meant by that is that we act DEFENSIVELY towards dogs when faced with aggression. 
I don't think he purposely went looking for trouble and definitely did not knowingly put his baby in harms way. 

I don't think his statements clash. He saw her wounds and his wife was freaking out, baby was crying and he reacted. NOBODY here knows how they would have acted faced with this same situation. 
When you're angry and not in the right state of mind you do things you regret later. 
We are NOT perfect. He certainly knew better, but [censored] happens. The dog was let in by mistake and the worst case scenario became a reality. 

To repeatedly attack him is just completely unfair when he came on here trying to vent. Yes, his actions are questionable, but who's wouldn't be faced with the same situation. 
I'm sure all of us would have said "Malamute bit my baby in the face. While it was hovering over her I stuffed a Kong toy with hotdogs and peanut butter and redirected his attention, placed him outside and took my daughter to the ER" Right.

Saying he should move out is pointless, OBVIOUSLY it's his plan as he's there temporarily and in the process of finding a house. 

To suggest that he's lying about his daughters bite is just ridiculous! What in the world does this person have to prove to us?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I agree with you Selzer!

And there is a big difference in using a kick to defend your dog or child or self when under attack and attacking a dog out of anger and revenge. Understandable as that anger may be, taking it out on an old dog who is no longer in the process of biting is something we as humans need to be able to control. 

ETA: Re the post that came in above mine as I was writing - many of us DO know exactly how that situation feels. We've been bitten or a child has been bitten, we've felt that surge of adrenalin and anger but it doesn't making lashing out in vengence okay. It just doesn't. 

If the OP choses to post about this situation, then he also choses to get the input he gets. I'm not attacking him and I have no problem believing in the photos and that the little girl sustained a nasty bite. I'm just saying that 1. we as people on the Internet have no business recommending that the dog be PTS and 2. revenge is revenge and not defense and they shouldn't be confused.


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

I feel for more than just the little girl. I feel now for the MIL, who in my humble opinion waited way too long. The mal is going to die now, no 2 ways about it. Not for the original reason, to put him out of pain, but now because he has become a danger to others. The MIL will feel compelled to do so now, and she is going to lose her dog to a bite incident rather than old age. Living in the center of sled dog country, I have seen this situation played out so many times, when I worked at the shelter. Its sad for all involved.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I wouldn't be compelled to do so. I would be compelled to do a better job of protecting my old dog and setting up family rules and guidelines to make sure that he was safe and happy and so was that little baby girl.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

It doesn't make it okay, I agree. But when you act out in anger stuff happens that you just can't control. Some people can handle their anger well, some can't. 
IMO he's shown remorse about his actions and it should pretty much be dropped not poked at with a stick asking "Why?? Why did you kick the dog? Why? Why? How could you?".


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliNOBODY here knows how they would have acted faced with this same situation.
> When you're angry and not in the right state of mind you do things you regret later.


Well,- and I will say I am not trying to argue or upset you, really, I have no problem with you- I have, more than once with my niece, whom I've had since she was two weeks old, we were both visiting one of my brothers and the niece tried to get his lab/pit off of the couch, and her, and that's when he went off on her. Yeah, I had a big adrenaline rush, I bodily got the dog off and removed him from the room. That was resource guarding, when he bit the brother another time my brother lost his temper and started beating him with a broom handle. My niece has not been back to the home to stay nights, and isn't allowed to play with the dog anymore. He hadn't shown any real aggression issues before this. 


Another time was when a scruffy dog a few streets over -bless him, they left him in the house 3 years ago, they just found his body tied inside when the city knocked the house down- snapped his tie out and chased her down, she was probably 5 at the time, he was all over her, I ran at him and yelled, he backed off, but stayed around. I could have gone off and beat the tar out of the dog for daring to injure her, my head was swimming in all kinds of an adrenaline rush.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliIt doesn't make it okay, I agree. But when you act out in anger stuff happens that you just can't control. Some people can handle their anger well, some can't.
> IMO he's shown remorse about his actions and it should pretty much be dropped not poked at with a stick asking "Why?? Why did you kick the dog? Why? Why? How could you?".


Because it would be irresponsible of people, on a public forum that many people can read, that anyone can read, actually, to not point out that it is not the way to go. 

Norm setting. It's not the norm here to kick an old dog like that regardless of the situation, after the fact. 

Thank goodness.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

That's why I say some people can handle this, some can't. My BF has a temper, I don't. We're all different.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

Sorry OP but what you did to that senior dog was definitely abuse. I think the dog should be checked out by a vet too...you could have done some internal damage. Sounds horrible too...it makes me sick to my stomach to read what you did to him considering this was in no way the dog's fault, but you and your wife's.

Yes I know emotions are running high right now but that is the hard truth. You let your guard down with a dog who has a bite/aggression history. I know I don't have the most popular opinion or response in this thread but this is how I see it. If this was a news story and it was posted here, you and your wife would most certainly be slammed for your irresponsibility especially since the dog and your child have suffered from it.

Also your personal dog is so young too..it worries me to think what could happen to her in the future as she grows and tests her boundaries and her personality changes. Dogs have sharp teeth and do not have the ability to reason, we are the ones with opposable thumbs and the bigger brain. Beating and abusing a dog is not how you earn its respect and trust and is not the right way to discipline. I hope to god your puppy never makes a similar mistake because it is clear how you will react.

As for the earlier comment somewhere about Malamutes as a whole, I do not think it is fair nor right to make a blanket statement about an entire breed and single them out based on a personal experience with one specimen of that breed. I do not want to see any breed on a BSL list and making those kinds of comments is what puts fear into the uneducated public and paints a negative picture of the breed. There are many factors and variables involved as to why a dog of a certain breed may act out aggressively. Bad breeding and environment/training definitely play a big part. That does not mean we should speak negatively of the entire breed as a whole. Don't GSDs have a much higher bite statistic than Mals? I have known and heard of plenty of Shepherds who have "snapped" as well as other breeds. Malamutes are no better or worse. I am sure now that when OP and his wife re-tell the story of what happened to their daughter's face throughout her life, it will make people think negatively of Malamutes.

I have sympathy for the daughter and the dog...and the MIL. I have gone out of town before and came home to a bad situation involving my dogs and it is very difficult to deal with when there was nothing you could do.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Attacking other people or animals out of anger or because of a temper is human nature but that doesn't make it okay! I've been accidently hit in the face by my child - it doesn't make it okay for me to throw him across the room! We, as adults, have to learn to control ourselves when it comes to retributional violence. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. 

As far as remorse, I have not seen anything but justification for the kick. 

there have also been comments like this:


> Quote:He is most certainly a "loaded gun" waiting to go off..


From the OP about the dog. I guess my question is - would you leave a loaded gun next to your toddler???? 

Because given all the facts this sounds to me like human error more than anything else.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliIt doesn't make it okay, I agree. But when you act out in anger stuff happens that you just can't control. Some people can handle their anger well, some can't.
> ...


You're right, it should be pointed out. I just disagree with the constant attacking.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliThat's why I say some people can handle this, some can't. My BF has a temper, I don't. We're all different.


But you said NOBODY HERE knows what they would do in that situation


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: APBTLove
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliThat's why I say some people can handle this, some can't. My BF has a temper, I don't. We're all different.
> ...


Well, I guess not in his specific situation








Really, I'm not saying his actions were okay. It was irresponsible but we're pretty much beating a dead horse. 
What bothers me is that he KNOWS it was wrong yet we're attacking anyway. I think we all deserve forgiveness, (not that he has to seek any type of forgiveness from us) when we show regret and remorse. 

20/20 Hindsight.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: I just disagree with the constant attacking.


But I think what you're seeing are responses to the constant defending.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: pupresq
> 
> 
> > Quote: I just disagree with the constant attacking.
> ...


No, I don't think so. My posts are not aimed at you or ABPT. It's just an in general in response to the posts I've been seeing.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: No, I don't think so. My posts are not aimed at you or ABPT. It's just an in general in response to the posts I've been seeing.


But that's what I'm saying - those of us who are writing to urge care in the decisions about the dog and criticism of his reaction are also writing in general to the posts we've been seeing - especially the OP's, which to my reading do not actually sound particularly remorseful. Sorry that it happened, but a lot of shedding of responsibility for what led up to the event as well as what happened afterwards.

If you think a dog is "a loaded gun waiting to go off" and has a known history of biting, why would you have your toddler next to said dog when he was being fed???


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: MXpro982 * I just pray she doesn't get scarred mentally or anything from it.. She will have two scars on her face, but we need to keep her out of the sun the best we can for a year and keep vitamin E on it in hopes of the scars fading.*


I'm so sorry for you and your beautiful little girl.

Didn't read all the replies, but chances are good if you follow advice about sun and vitamin E, she will have minimal if any scarring.

My son had an accident about the same edge - nearly slicing the tip of his nose off.

Was told to do the same and that he would need plastic surgery when older... but, today, as an adult, you cannot even see the scar.

hope it's the same for you!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DenaliFofali,

I haven't called the guy a liar and do not think he is one. I have not questioned his statements. 

He posted and is acting out of the heat of the moment and the aftermath of an attack. I am trying to provide insight from the MILs view AND provide possible explanations, but mostly, I want for him to step back a bit in order to preserve the extended family. 

In the heat of the moment we often say and do things we regret later. 

I do not think the dog was let in by mistake, the child's mother who was raised with the dog, let the dogs in. He had reservations and was just thinking about removing that dog, when it happened. 

These are semantics I know, but they do show something, the MIL and the wife who have known this dog from a puppy could not see the danger in the dog. Sometimes an outsider can see things that the person in the middle cannot.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofali
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: APBTLove
> ...



His words:

"I am quite angry at myself! I knew better. But I did not make that dog bite my daughter. He bit her on his own! I don't consider my kick "abuse".. If that dog bit another dog like he did, I guarentee you that the other dog would have faught back! That is nature."



That is what bothers me. It still seems like he is trying to justify his actions.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzerDenaliFofali,
> I haven't called the guy a liar and do not think he is one. I have not questioned his statements.


Again, not directed at you.








I agree with you 100%. But there are others that I don't agree with so much. It's just my .02.

And:

"So was I. I didn't inspect my daughter prior, I only saw my daughter face down with him over her and my wife, "!" and then I saw blood...That was enough for me... I got up, and went to remove the threat from the situation.. "


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## maggs30 (Aug 5, 2008)

How in the world could the dog and toddler be facing the same way when the incisors are near her ear...there's no way. Either the toddler or the dog turned around and I am betting it was the toddler. You already stated that you were in by the computer. And if the dog had still been a threat when u decided to kick it your daughter would have been mauled before you got those 3 feet. I'm sorry but even the OP has no idea what happened in the seconds before or right after the attack and attacking the dog back is not the answer.


As far as none of us knowing what we would do....I know exactly my son was bite by the neighbors GSD and I immediately picked my child up and got him to safety. My husband was there also and neither he or I kicked the dog. 

Revenge and anger is why you kicked that poor senior dog and the other poster is right...if this was a news story and you were not a member of this board you would be being flamed bad for being irresponsible and abusive. 

I am done here as OP will not have any compassion for the dog or the MIL and even the wife who's childhood dog this is. I feel that in the future this will cause a lot of resentment between the MIL and SIL and possibly even the SIL and wife, but good luck with that.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

When I was around 11 or 12 I remember walking my young GSD puppy down the street and one of the neighbor's dogs started barking like crazy when he saw us and he jumped the 4ft chainlink fence and ran at us. I picked up my puppy and held my arms over him and immediately froze as the neighbor's dog jumped up at him (though not viciously at all). My neighbor heard his dog barking and ran outside over to us and grabbed his dog by his neck choking him and dragged him into their yard. To this day I still cringe as I can clearly remember and have a very vivid picture of my neighbor throwing his dog to the ground in their yard and kicking/beating into his ribs extremely hard. This dog was a medium sized mutt..all of probably 40 pounds or so. And mind you these were "good christian people". 

I just have no remorse for people who abuse and cause harm to dogs when it is not the dog's fault.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry for what happened to your precious little girl and glad it was no worse than what it is. Medicines today can work wonders and when she's older it will probably be barely visible. I hope she mends quickly and that this does not make her afraid of dogs.

On the other hand I have absolutely no sympathy for you. People like yourself who feel a dog should be put down for being a dog or kicking or otherwise inflicting pain on a dog for something like this. People of this mind-set make me angry and sick to my stomach. The dog has no idea whatsoever why it was kicked! I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd then bitten you ... aggression breeds aggression.

Making a dog pay for the human's mistakes or lack of responsibility is just plain WRONG. When you do something human, say you punch someone out, which is wrong but you've inflicted pain on another human being --- should we put YOU down? 

You say you realize that the dog shouldn't have been with your child and you knew it awhile ago. You admit blame but yet you feel the dog should pay the consequences and DIE for YOUR mistake? What is wrong with you? Your child has already taken consequences for you not being responsible in following through with what you say you already knew. 

It's entirely possible that at 14yo, this dog isn't seeing or hearing as well as it used to. Your daughter could have inadvertently startled the dog and the dog just reacted. 

I'm sorry to sound cruel and harsh but on the other hand that's exactly what you are doing. This is NOT and I repeat NOT the dog's fault. So, grow up, and REALLY accept responsibility don't just say you do. Your words and your "wish" actions are conficting. See to it that you take precautions this never happens again with this or any other dog.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: lcht2it was at my house i wouldnt have thought twice to put a bullet in his head before i went to the hospital...


Gee, I hope the next time you do something human that results in injury to someone else, that person will think about giving you the same. The HUMAN is to blame here, not the dog. The dog does not deserve to pay the ultimate price for something a human did or didn't do.

I must sound like a real b%^#& and maybe tonight I am. I'm having one of those nights that when I see people making stupid statements like this and wanting or making a dog pay the price for human error it just infuriates me no end. This mentality needs to change all over the place. 

We bring dogs into our lives, we EXPECT they understand our ways and what's right or wrong. They DON'T and it's so wrong of humans to expect this of them! They're animals first and foremost and will on occasion revert to animal behaviors. Do we try to understand THEIR language? Not many of us do. Just because they live with us doesn't make them human or any less animal.

After the first bite, there should have been action taken to work on the dog's training and behavior, perhaps more socialization - whatever was needed. Dogs that bite do NOT have to be automitically put down.

Considering how many humans treat dogs, I'm surprised they don't all "pack-up" and "pack up" and go somewhere there aren't any humans, where they are safe from our cruelty, stupidity and lack of willingness to take true responsibility for our own actions.

Also, don't be surprised if one day your Tyson bites someone. Sounds like you are trusting him 100% and that's a huge no-no. One should NEVER trust ANY dog 100%.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I just reread your post, apparently he did try to bite you after you kicked him. Like I said, aggression gets you more aggression and right now I'm so angry, I'm sorry he missed.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MXpro982
> Like I said before, the MIL has WANTED to get the dog put down for months but can't bring herself to do it.


Has she seen her granddaughter yet? If she truly wanted to put the dog down before........... 
Seeing that face I'll bet will tip the scales.
None of us have been spared moments of lack of good judgement, and most of the time we get away with it without something terrible happening. I will not judge you or the dog. That's for Someone far greater than me.
If someone reads this thread and learns something that prevents a similiar situation, that's great. I see that as the point of threads like this, not to bash someone. Of course he's defensive! He's been criticized and judged by people who were not there, did not walk in his shoes, and did not see their beautiful daughter hurt like that.
And again, when you DO put medicine on that area to lessen the appearance of the scars later don't make it clear that's what you're trying to do. Just medicine that she needs, that's all. If you make it into an issue that this is a problem that has to be lessened she will too. And she'll notice it every day and think of it as a flaw.
If the scars are completely gone she won't be able to tell folks she's been in a barfight when she's older


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliIf people on the forum are willing to kick other unleashed dogs that run up to you on walks in order to protect your own dog, how are you different than this parent??


If you are kicking a dog *while* it's attacking, you are protecting you & yours. The dog can understand consequences for it's actions but it must associate the action w/the consequence in order to get the correct idea.

This kick was after the fact out of pure anger and frustration. I'm not convinced the anger and frustration wasn't directed at the OP himself since he knew better and admitted to knowing better. If that's the case he should have been kicking himself and not the dog.

The dog bit and backed off, it was not attacking the child in a vicious rage where Dad's only option was to kick the dog to get it off the child. There is an absolutely huge difference.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

I think it's much too easy to say what somebody should have done in a situation. Looking back maybe the OP would have done something differently, maybe not. That's something he will have to decide for himself. It isn't up to any of us.
Having said that, this was a heat of the moment, very charged situation. The OP was not thinking in a 100% purely logical manner, or if he was there's something VERY wrong with him. These situations WILL occur, and the best you can hope for is that things are learned from it. 
(which is why I want to thank Shayne for posting it)


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Quote:I think we all deserve forgiveness, (not that he has to seek any type of forgiveness from us) when we show regret and remorse. 20/20 Hindsight.


People only deserve our forgiveness when we have proven that we have remorse and are sorry for what we've done. Justification does not = remorse.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* Firstly, my comments don't clash. I was with the dog while my wife picked up the baby and I saw the blood dripping down her face! I didn't go up, inspect her, then minutes later kick the dog. I don't regret doing what I did for one second. I love dogs/animals. I love how this thing has turned into a animal abuse case. Cracks me up. 

I do not have a temper.. I hardly consider the kick "after the fact".. He was still next to my baby in the kitchen (small area). What did you want me to do? Put my hand down there and direct him out while he bit my hand?? Sorry, first thing was to direct his attention at me but doing so without getting bit was also on my mind. I have used brooms and chairs to try and get him outside and guess what he does to those?? He bites the living crap out of them until he gets outside. 

I am not looking to hear if the kick was right or wrong. It was right. Like I said, if he had done this to a dog the dog would have BIT him right back! You all make it sound like I am going to take the dog down myself and have him PTS.. That is not the case. I only said that he was going to be PTS because the owner has wanted to prior to this! And we can't just go out and rent a place, move all of our stuff (again) , and then find a house and re-move again in a month or two. That would be horrible and even harder on our marriage. For now, my MIL is figuring out what to do. But I can tell you that my child and that dog will not be in any form of contact. And I will take my baby and stay with my mom if anyone has a problem with that.*


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*Abuse?? Haha.. This is dumb. The ONLY victim here was my daughter. The dog did was he wanted to do! He wasn't forced into that situation. I seriously feel like not even getting on this boards anymore because I realize how everyone else's opinion means nothing. I have never kicked my dog. But my dog has never bit my baby in the face either. My dog would be gone if that happend. I can always go get another dog, but my baby is the only one Ive got for life. I guess when animal control calls reguarding the bite, I will tell them how I reacted and I guarentee you they won't question my actions. 

I am very curious MustLoveGSDs... What would you have done in my shoes??? You look over and see your babies face dripping blood all over and you still have a dog in the kitchen that will bite you if you touch him.. How do you get the threat out in a hurry so you can get to the hospital??!! I thought you b/f was a cop??! Ask him the same question and he will understand why I did what I did. He knows about dealing with the threats.*


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* Lets put it this way... If I punched someone FOR NO REASON, shouldn't I expect to be punched back??! I promise you that dog knew why he got kicked. You people apparently have yet to figure out how the real world works. Not everything is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. *


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*You guys aren't reading what is being written. HE wasn't being fed. My daughter was GOING to be fed. There was no food in front of his face. Quit trying to justify a dog that has no control. *


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* And this isn't the HUMANS fault. Yes, he shouldn't have been inside the house. But we didn't do anything to make him bite her. ANIMAL did that. We presented the situation but he is the one who decided on what to do. He has bitten my MIL while she was trying to GIVE him food in a bowl.. Was that her fault too??*


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

*There is no resentment between any of us! Wow. I will no longer be posting on this website. 90% of you are apparently retarded. I am not going to waste my time here. I would bet that if I posted this to the nation, the majority would have done a lot more than kick the dog. A reasonably person would have done what I did. While you are busy picking up your kid, you have done nothing to teach the dog a lesson and he will just bite another kid. Congrats on protecting no one. *


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Bunch a retards huh??? lol

Kicking the dog served as a release of anger on your part, nothing more, nothing less and now you are once again showing your lack of control...

Ok now that that is outa my system.... sorry about your daughter. It really is a bad situation. I would never let them be alone together again.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: MXpro982 *There is no resentment between any of us! Wow. I will no longer be posting on this website. 90% of you are apparently retarded. I am not going to waste my time here. I would bet that if I posted this to the nation, the majority would have done a lot more than kick the dog. A reasonably person would have done what I did. While you are busy picking up your kid, you have done nothing to teach the dog a lesson and he will just bite another kid. Congrats on protecting no one. *


A reasonable, intelligent person would never have left their toddler on the floor with a dog that has a known bite history. You







ed up!! Now your baby and the dog are paying the price!!!

The dog is freaking blind, death, in pain and old...what did you think was going to happen?!?!?


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## FredD (Jul 5, 2009)

People, people, people! Let's end it right now! It was a sad situation that happened. Learn from it, educate people, not slam each other with "personal" views. There's a lesson to be learned here. Working together to help each other in situations like this. We all have our own views. Don't use them to criticize, use them to help. In Vietnam, I watched a war dog protect it's wounded master with it's body and life. Nobody could get to the man because he protected him. He had to be "SHOT" in order to save the man... Was that right? I don't know, but the soldier would have died without help. I live with that, knowing how much I love GSD's. Sorry if I offended anybody, but teach instead of criticizing means a lot to me... Thank you for hearing me out.


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## MXpro982 (Aug 31, 2008)

* I wanted to clarify one thing. I kicked the dog one time. I think people are picturing me standing above the dog beating it. Never happend. Secondly, I think its hilarious how you guys pretend to be the ones with the "good hearts" and Im the bad guy. How many of you have asked how the baby is doing?? 

I will love my daughter more than any dog. Maybe you should examine your own lives. Yes, I kicked the dog once in anger and also to deter its mind off of my daughter that he was fixating on.. I think we got passed that 4 pages ago. Get over it. The dog is fine. Thanks to everyone who actually cared about the child- the only victim. *


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Can we get this post closed out before it gets nastier?


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

I have already notified Mods.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

I'm not sure if you're responding to me or just posting in general, but I'm not attacking you in any way. 
I believe you reacted in the only way you knew how in the heat of the moment and I don't think it's fair that people are nitpicking it. 

I agree with the people that believe this thread should be learned from.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Thanks Richard


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

my 2 cents, a Malamute can and has bittin, for no reason and no warning


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Any dog can get startled and bite. As much as I trust Jax I always have a firm grip on her when she is around little kids. All it would take was one child jumping on her and who knows how she would react in pain...

I don't know what I would do in the OP position. Would I have kicked the dog in anger? Probably not. But I can't say for sure since I wasn't there and don't know what the dog was doing. Would I have left my baby on the floor with a dog that has a known bite history? Not a chance. 

I think it could happen again with a different dog if the OP puts all the blame on the dog and takes none upon himself. 

I don't even understand why the OP put this post on here. Was he looking for justification to euth. the dog? Sympathy? Warning to others to be careful with dogs? 

I think Jaggirl is right...the thread just needs to be closed.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Before this closes.. Read through the posts. MOST here are sending positive thoughts for your little girl... and I'll ask it, how is she now? We might not have asked the question, but our hearts are with her. I guess since it happen so recently nobody thought to ask for an update on her condition.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

WOW

Closing this thread now. It is Sunday, I day I spend with my DH and I don't have time to go through and do edits or warnings where needed.

Wisc.Tiger - Admin


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