# E-training



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

I ordered some books on E-training because a frirnd of mine are doing this training with him. He has to be isolated from guests often for awhile after they got this new trainer. They have done this with their previous dog before i was born. This has nothing to do against me. No more frequent visitors even for the kids across the street. However, can visit once a week or once every other week. This training is what CW Meisterfeld had done of what I heard. I cannot attend either like i did in the past with their previous trainer. That is cool this is something that they have to do. However, hopefully this will end eventually and can leave this alll behind. So have been researching on e-training and ordered books on amazon about 3 on Meisterfeld and 10 on other books and 5 other books at a local library. CW Meisterfeld was the first person to train dogs with Positive Reinforcement no alpha or force physical thing. Doing this to understand and am understanding more of it. However, don't get the isolation visitors thing. So what I know about this is to make their dog more responsive and welcomed be more of a joy everywhere. Found nothing on social isolation other than its not a proper way to train dogs according to my research so far. He already is the though from a different propespective. Although he can get better. Do you know much about e-training?


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Maybe the dog's owners have decided that you have an unhealthy interest in their dog and no longer wanted your interference? 

I think you would be so much better off if you would stop focusing on a dog that you don't own and have no real connection to and maybe start focusing on making the real relationships in your life better.
Sheilah


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

sit said:


> Maybe the dog's owners have decided that you have an unhealthy interest in their dog and no longer wanted your interference?
> 
> I think you would be so much better off if you would stop focusing on a dog that you don't own and have no real connection to and maybe start focusing on making the real relationships in your life better.
> Sheilah


very well said.

you're obssessing over a dog you dont even own. do you just randomly call these people asking to see their dog? maybe the no visitors thing isnt an integral part of the training but just their way of nicely telling you to stay away and stop stalking their dog?


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree, this is their dog, not yours, and your attachment to him in my opinion, is unhealthy for you and the dog.


----------



## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree, this is their dog, not yours, and your attachment to him in my opinion, is unhealthy for you and the dog.


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I have a dog that has to be managed when guests are over - whether it be put away or brought into the group _determined by me_. I also have a friend who likes my dog, and by your post, acts and believes much as you do. I have had several discussions with my friend about this. _I explained that as much as they like my dog, I know what his limitations are, what he is capable of, I know what it will take to keep him and guests safe - to please stop interfering, to keep judgmental comments and observations to themselves. My priority is the safety of guests and my dog, not what the friend is comfortable with or how the friend would like to see my dog handled._

For your peace of mind, I can assure you that not all dogs want to be in a group setting, are much happier just with their family. Depending on the issues, it can be much healthier for the dog to not to be subjected to the stress of guests/strangers.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

sit said:


> Maybe the dog's owners have decided that you have an unhealthy interest in their dog and no longer wanted your interference?
> 
> I think you would be so much better off if you would stop focusing on a dog that you don't own and have no real connection to and maybe start focusing on making the real relationships in your life better.
> Sheilah


@sit,stay

They said this has nothing to do with me. This is the same thing they have done with their last dog Kimo before I was born. Maybe that is true maybe not. Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to talk further on this with them.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> very well said.
> 
> you're obssessing over a dog you dont even own. do you just randomly call these people asking to see their dog? maybe the no visitors thing isnt an integral part of the training but just their way of nicely telling you to stay away and stop stalking their dog?


@boomer11

How is the no visitors thing a clue to your theory? I have been thinking the same thing, but no they don't want his training undo or anything. I known them for years and have become like godparents or an aunt and an uncle. They enjoy having me over hanging out with their dog. The guardian and I went on a walk with our dogs and we were talking about this. She told me what the trainer said and two months ago after the training. Possibly, the guardians might have realized something during this training process with their dog. So perhaps this relationship is unhealthy. However, doesn't feel that way when we spen time with each I grown up and don't brag or think what ever I feel about their dog like a kid. Actually remember an episode in Pokemon of a kid wanting Pikachu and was so obsess over Pikachu and thought Pikachu liked him more than Pikachu's trainer. Actually a lot of Pokemon theories, training methods, methods, philosophies, etc are similar to dogs and other nonhuman species as well. For awhile did feel like a break eventually from this dog might be a good idea and it's happening. Eventually, we will go back to normal but with different attitudes, better relationships, philosophies, etc. Kind of silly, but the relationship with this dog is different I think. Although, I like to share my feelings and thoughts with them and they help out. I feel like this might be a good learning experience in the end. However, next time I see the guardian we will talk this through.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Twyla said:


> I have a dog that has to be managed when guests are over - whether it be put away or brought into the group _determined by me_. I also have a friend who likes my dog, and by your post, acts and believes much as you do. I have had several discussions with my friend about this. _I explained that as much as they like my dog, I know what his limitations are, what he is capable of, I know what it will take to keep him and guests safe - to please stop interfering, to keep judgmental comments and observations to themselves. My priority is the safety of guests and my dog, not what the friend is comfortable with or how the friend would like to see my dog handled._
> 
> For your peace of mind, I can assure you that not all dogs want to be in a group setting, are much happier just with their family. Depending on the issues, it can be much healthier for the dog to not to be subjected to the stress of guests/strangers.


@Twyla

For a couple years I have been a frequent visitor weekly around 2-5+ hours. So perhaps being a frequent visitor had this consequence we didn't realize would happen. Despite this being the trainer's orders maybe they came to realize something. So now I am thinking about seeing him like I see dogs at the dog park. Some see every week some a few times a month. We may be a perfect match in our personality and energy wise, however our relationship is huge, but he is with his guardians 24/7. I also realized a different in prospective taking with our dogs too. My dog and German shepherds are easy to handle easier than a beagle and to others my dog and German shepherds are harder than taking a train for a walk.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

maybe the owners are being polite to you and don't want to hurt your feelings.

I also agree with Twyla's post.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

sit said:


> Maybe the dog's owners have decided that you have an unhealthy interest in their dog and no longer wanted your interference?
> 
> I think you would be so much better off if you would stop focusing on a dog that you don't own and have no real connection to and maybe start focusing on making the real relationships in your life better.
> Sheilah


@sit,stay
@JakodaCD OA
I agree used to be not the case. Seems like it is now after the clues. How can I make it more healthier? The dog enjoys being active with me and still is happy to see me. Still get kisses, still listens to my commands, love to play. Should maybe I apologize for an unhealthy relationship? We still have so much fun with each other. Should I move on and talk different topics for the time being? For a long time they thought of me like a nephew.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I guess I would just let it go, if the owners of lobo want you involved in his life they will tell you.

Maybe write them a note, tell them you understand their decisions regarding him, and if in the future they would like you to walk him/play with him, please feel free to call.


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I guess I would just let it go, if the owners of lobo want you involved in his life they will tell you.
> 
> Maybe write them a note, tell them you understand their decisions regarding him, and if in the future they would like you to walk him/play with him, please feel free to call.


Great idea. Lobo, you are always talking about training methods, etc, and how you are researching methods for when you can see him again. As an owner, I would be seriously aggravated if my dog walker was trying to train my dog his own way. It's seriously overstepping boundaries. Something to think about. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I guess I would just let it go, if the owners of lobo want you involved in his life they will tell you.
> 
> Maybe write them a note, tell them you understand their decisions regarding him, and if in the future they would like you to walk him/play with him, please feel free to call.


@JakodaCD OA

How could you tell it is this way? Did I really mess up? I would like to fix things.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> Great idea. Lobo, you are always talking about training methods, etc, and how you are researching methods for when you can see him again. As an owner, I would be seriously aggravated if my dog walker was trying to train my dog his own way. It's seriously overstepping boundaries. Something to think about.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I used their approach from their last trainer.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

When you are working with a trainer it is you, your dog, and your trainer. They need to be allowed to be a 'pack' a family unit as it were.

He is their dog and you need to let it go. Perhaps the only follow up I would have it so try to learn from /ask the trainer what he felt you were doing wrong but they have to have the relationship with their dog, not you and it may be as simple as that this is confusing the dog as to who they "report to"

E-training, books, trying things. Nothing nothing nothing replaces one on one with someone who knows what they are doing and can stand back and see what you are doing. I just wrote a thread on being humbled after working with a trainer.


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

Lobobear44 said:


> I would like to fix things.


Interpersonal relationships can be very far from straightforward, and often can be counterintuitive.

The classic starting point is Dale Carnegie's book, _How to Win Friends and Influence People_. Other such things that are frequently found to be useful are books about things like body language and even etiquette (be careful of garbage). Most of human communication is nonverbal and is interpreted through the lens of cultural convention by people looking out for their own interests first.

I think that navigating the human mammalian pack environment is not that different from dealing with dogs. The problem is we don't often feel the subtle stims that come from our own behaviors.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

No I'm not saying you messed up, I'm saying that maybe the owners of lobo feel you are to attached to him and think it's better that you and he are distanced from each other. They may feel since lobo is 'their' dog and if they have things they would like to 'fix' with him, it just probaby makes better sense to 'them', that they are the only people to have contact with him.

Sometimes things can't be fixed. Sure they may still view you as a friend, but may feel boundaries need to be set, which include you having minimal to no contact with their dog. 

If they are using a trainer, then there must be some issues that they feel need to be addressed within their household for them and the dog, which again, may include minimal/no contact with anyone else..

I obviously can't speak for them, but I would fathom this could be the case..


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know a family with three kids and I like for them to occasionally spend time with my dogs. They don't see kids often and I think it's important for their socialization. That said, it's a lot easier for THEM to show up and "play with my dogs" but can be exhausting for me because they are my dogs so any incident is going to my my fault or my dogs' fault. I feel responsible for every interaction and always have to have eyes on everyone so I don't get to socialize myself or relax and have fun. Sometimes if they ask me to bring a dog along I politely decline. I appreciate their willingness to "help", but from the point of view of the dog owner you can't just sit back and assume your dog is going to always obey and be perfectly well behaved with people that don't own it.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> No I'm not saying you messed up, I'm saying that maybe the owners of lobo feel you are to attached to him and think it's better that you and he are distanced from each other. They may feel since lobo is 'their' dog and if they have things they would like to 'fix' with him, it just probaby makes better sense to 'them', that they are the only people to have contact with him.
> 
> Sometimes things can't be fixed. Sure they may still view you as a friend, but may feel boundaries need to be set, which include you having minimal to no contact with their dog.
> 
> ...


You kind of wrote the stuff down. I wish I didn't go overboard with opening my big mouth a few months ago. I think I agree. Too bad it turned out this way. Maybe they feel similar with Lobo towards me too. They are different than other people's dogs I walk. Learned obession really can turn out bad. Could they end up doing this for a long term of Lobo's life? I just hope things can go back to normal someday and this time frequent visits will be more healthier.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

I also texted her an apology. I deleted it though.


----------



## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

Lobobear, I would just like to say (gently!) that I think you should let it go. I can tell you love the dog but sometimes people place more importance on certain things rather than life. I think that is what is going on right now. You don't own the dog. He is not your responsibility. He is simply a "thing" you have attached yourself to. You need to focus on your life - work, school, friends, your parents/guardians, maybe college, etc. Please do not get mad at how I phrased this. I'm not trying to say dogs are material items but in this case, it's the only way I could think of to express what I was thinking. 
Maybe try volunteering at an animal shelter. There you can have bonds with MANY animals and receive the love you need and in turn, give the love you would normally give Lobo. This might help you form more transient and healthier relationships with dogs because they come into your life and then go elsewhere. You may not become so attached, thus enabling you to focus more on your personal life and healthy human relationships. Please take care. 

*-*Summer*-*


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think it's mature of you to realize you may have formed an unhealthy attachment to lobo, it's how one grows tho painful at times.

I agree with Summer, find a shelter and help those dogs who really need it, the ones who don't have a warm home and family to live with, it can be a really fullfilling experience to know you've helped a dog in need..


----------



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

If I remember correctly, you have a dog at your home. Work with that dog instead.


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

From one of your previous posts- 


Lobobear44 said:


> I raised Lobo since a pup of 8 weeks see him every 2x a week since then or more sometimes. Everytime he sees me he is beyond excitement and doesn't show this to others.
> 
> I do not mean to be bragging but Lobo's relationship with me is different than any other person including his owners. I have been raising him since 8 weeks and he stole some of my personalities!


Perhaps the owners of Lobo just want their dog back. They are the ones putting in the money to care for the dog. To me it sounds like your trying to take over their dog. You want to train it with all sorts of different methods you find on the internet. You have a german shepherd forum account listing someone elses dog. That just seems a little weird.

You have a dog. Try spending time to bond with it and train that dog.

Was Lobo orginally your dog?? I haven't been around too long so I'm still trying to piece things together.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

marbury said:


> If I remember correctly, you have a dog at your home. Work with that dog instead.


I do but I still don't feel that same strong connection I have with Lobo.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> I do but I still don't feel that same strong connection I have with Lobo.


I may of missed this but are you not Lobos owner? ..


----------



## TexasCrane (Nov 13, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I may of missed this but are you not Lobos owner? ..


No he's not opcorn:


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I may of missed this but are you not Lobos owner? ..


Nope


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> Nope


Have you talked to his owners about how you feel and about how close you are to him?


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Have you talked to his owners about how you feel and about how close you are to him?


His owners know this and are not allowing him access to the dog. 
Lobo, at this point I suggest you talk to a counselor.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> His owners know this and are not allowing him access to the dog.
> Lobo, at this point I suggest you talk to a counselor.


I think at this point I focus on other dogs for the time being like teeka, Oliver, Dante, Nico, Bailey a newcomer, and Bozart a newcomer, and SPCA. My dog at home is pure stupid. doesnt cheer me up of sadness too oblivious. His soulmate is somewhere else and that is gone. if i knew this wouldn't have got him. then again, wouldnt have met all of these amazing faithful dogs. Perhaps i should start raising money for a new dog. Eventually, time will heal and Lobo and I will have a new relationship that is healthier.


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

I agree with Sunflowers. 

In previous posts you mentioned raising Lobo since he was 8 weeks. Were you ever his owner? If not, how did you raise him? If you did, I could understand more of your attachment to him. But it's still unhealthy, especially after reading the Lobo behavior thread you posted in April of '13.


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

Dogs don't have soulmates. 



Lobobear44 said:


> I think at this point I focus on other dogs for the time being like teeka, Oliver, Dante, Nico, Bailey a newcomer, and Bozart a newcomer, and SPCA. My dog at home is pure stupid. doesnt cheer me up of sadness too oblivious. His soulmate is somewhere else and that is gone. if i knew this wouldn't have got him. then again, wouldnt have met all of these amazing faithful dogs. Perhaps i should start raising money for a new dog. Eventually, time will heal and Lobo and I will have a new relationship that is healthier.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

stmcfred said:


> I agree with Sunflowers.
> 
> In previous posts you mentioned raising Lobo since he was 8 weeks. Were you ever his owner? If not, how did you raise him? If you did, I could understand more of your attachment to him. But it's still unhealthy, especially after reading the Lobo behavior thread you posted in April of '13.


Yeah I did help raise him. Look my YouTube videos on Lobo at Megagermanshep


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)




----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)




----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Just a thought but....Lobo turned 2 recently. That's a pretty important age for a GSD. I know my males once they turned 2 didn't tolerate things/people they did as puppies without question. They became far more discerning and "choosey" about what people and dogs they interacted with, especially interactions where someone is coming into their space, trying to tell them what to do.


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

So is the little dog the "stupid dog" because she seems to pay more attention to you then Lobo.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

stmcfred said:


> So is the little dog the "stupid dog" because she seems to pay more attention to you then Lobo.


No I'm talking about my Labradoodle. That pit bull is Lily. I think Lobo was more into a walk but I was recovering from acute lymphangitis than after hospital. Had to take it super easy. One block tookl out as if it was 5 hours.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

*You are very lucky, in this one, that the dog had a good temperament. 
*


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Liesje said:


> Just a thought but....Lobo turned 2 recently. That's a pretty important age for a GSD. I know my males once they turned 2 didn't tolerate things/people they did as puppies without question. They became far more discerning and "choosey" about what people and dogs they interacted with, especially interactions where someone is coming into their space, trying to tell them what to do.


Yeah we are more the active to do type than the physical type. I wish we walked in more places and tookl a chance. However, did the same mistake with Dante and we go to new places all the time for hikes!


----------



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Your dog is not 'too stupid'. My childhood dog was in no way cuddly or affectionate. He was a Pom mix, and if you didn't have food he could have cared less about any command you gave him. He took particular pleasure in completely ignoring me. But despite having a minuscule connection we competed in obedience, agility, and public 'trick' shows. Yes, I have a much stronger bond with my shepherds. But you have dogs in your life. Work with them. 

If you want to be a trainer you need to know how to work with ANY dogs, not just easy-to-train and naturally responsive ones. Get started there. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

@JakodaCD OA

If only I was more careful none of this would've happened. Took him to one place only a park than last June started taking him more variety of places. Wish I made more of the effort and listened to you all before this Lobo thing occurred. Also wish made less effort to train him. I just wanted them training Lobo easier and make things right. Also need to stop opening my big mouth before more things get worse.


----------



## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

So many questions were just answered watching those videos. I hope posters watch them to better understand how to guide the OP.


----------



## SummerGSDLover (Oct 20, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> So many questions were just answered watching those videos. I hope posters watch them to better understand how to guide the OP.


I very much agree. 

*-*Summer*-*


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Yes, LoveEcho, I thought the same thing.


----------



## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> So many questions were just answered watching those videos. I hope posters watch them to better understand how to guide the OP.


Guide to where?


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> So many questions were just answered watching those videos. I hope posters watch them to better understand how to guide the OP.


@LoveEcho

What do u mean?


----------



## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Do Lobo's owners know you have videos of their dog posted on YouTube?

Also I agree it would be good for you to focus on your own dog. Your dog needs you!


----------



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Kaimeju said:


> Do Lobo's owners know you have videos of their dog posted on YouTube?


Excellent point. OP, from the perspective of the pet owner, if I found out that a local kid that hung out with my dogs had multiple videos of them cooing at, fawning over to a point that is uncomfortable and concerning, and pretending to chomp on my dogs posted on the internet I would not have been as nice as Lobo's owners. I would probably have gone to their parents and been very clear about what would happen if I ever caught them near my property again.

The internet is permanent. IMO, you should remove those videos as best you can. I only had the stomach to watch part of the last one. My hackles were up the whole time. No matter what you plan to do in life, take control of what you can and clean up your image. If I was hoping to hire a behaviorist and had you recommended you bet I'd google you. If I found those... game over.


----------



## TexasCrane (Nov 13, 2013)

I'm sorry but those videos are just hilarious. Especially in light of this:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/feeding-our-puppy/392098-dog-myth-omnivores-carnivores.html



> I'm no good at forums just all I am professional at are dogs and a true nonhuman animal whisperer. That is my real self





> You know Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr would've done something about animal rights if they weren't shot. So they left somebody else to finish their left over work. That is ME!


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Kaimeju said:


> Do Lobo's owners know you have videos of their dog posted on YouTube?
> 
> Also I agree it would be good for you to focus on your own dog. Your dog needs you!


They know I showed them to the owners several months ago in July. I used it to show how much this dog liked me. Moving on now their is a dog Gs/husky mix hope to have a healthy relationship.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> So many questions were just answered watching those videos. I hope posters watch them to better understand how to guide the OP.


Agreed,


----------



## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

The question is why you would need to show proof of how much their dog liked you. 

Instead of moving on and smothering someone else's dog try bonding with your own dog. 



Lobobear44 said:


> They know I showed them to the owners several months ago in July. I used it to show how much this dog liked me. Moving on now their is a dog Gs/husky mix hope to have a healthy relationship.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

stmcfred said:


> The question is why you would need to show proof of how much their dog liked you.
> 
> Instead of moving on and smothering someone else's dog try bonding with your own dog.


I am taking my own dog everywhere and training and still not forming a strong bond.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sunflowers said:


> *You are very lucky, in this one, that the dog had a good temperament.
> *
> 
> Zombie eating a German shepherd part 2 - YouTube


this is seriously disturbing. Does the owner of this dog know what you were doing with him? Wow :help:


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Well, just keep at it. It's not unusual to have a dog that you aren't very bonded with. I've had dogs over the years that I really didn't connect with. Practice your training with the one you have. Some day you'll get your dog. 


Sent from Petguide.com App


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> this is seriously disturbing. Does the owner of this dog know what you were doing with him? Wow :help:


Like I already said they know about this since July. I posted this in July. They seen some videos.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

no wonder they want some distance. If someone did that to my dog(s) they'd be missing body parts.


----------



## Liz&Anna (Oct 29, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> *You are very lucky, in this one, that the dog had a good temperament.
> *
> 
> Zombie eating a German shepherd part 2 - YouTube


Whoa!!!!! Not ok!!! That is a quick way to receive a face bite.... Just wow... 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

wait i dont get it? whats so bad about the video? he's just playing with the dog?

edit - i didnt watch the entire thing. i just skipped around because it was incredibly lame. did i miss something?


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> wait i dont get it? whats so bad about the video? he's just playing with the dog?
> 
> edit - i didnt watch the entire thing. i just skipped around because it was incredibly lame. did i miss something?


Lame but sweet. Have one though that is on my IPhone on one of our last walks but bad aiming. :crazy:


----------



## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> Lame but sweet. Have one though that is on my IPhone on one of our last walks but bad aiming. :crazy:


what was so sweet about it? it looks like you're just bothering the dog. if the dog was making eye contact with its tail wagging and happy you're there then that might be sweet.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> what was so sweet about it? it looks like you're just bothering the dog. if the dog was making eye contact with its tail wagging and happy you're there then that might be sweet.


Wait which video are you talking about? Yeah I realized that later. So what did you people mean these videos can help me guide?


----------



## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

The brutal truth:
The dogs ignore you because you do not represent any kind of stability, leadership or ballance. You do not motivate them in anyway. Instead you pester them repeatedly with behavior and voice ques that are extremely confusing and could be interpreted as threatening. They ignore you because you represent nothing of value to them.

One day that kind of nonsense will get you bitten, I sincerely hope the dog doesnt have to pay the ultimate price for your foolishness.

Since you got on here all you have done is talk about your opinions and views that are based on nothing more then hearsay and your imagination. 

Pestering a few dogs does not make you any kind of trainer. 
Actual experience training dogs from the ground up, learning from high level trainers that have ACTUAL accomplishments, and in depth research is what makes a trainer. 

Close your mouth, open your ears, stop typing and start reading. You might learn something and become what you aspire to be. 
***Go to training club and for heavens sake dont start spewing any nonsense there. Just watch, learn and ask questions.

In addition, forget about the dog that isnt yours and focus on the dog you have, he doesnt care about you and nor should he. He is not your dog.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> The brutal truth:
> The dogs ignore you because you do not represent any kind of stability, leadership or ballance. You do not motivate them in anyway. Instead you pester them repeatedly with behavior and voice ques that are extremely confusing and could be interpreted as threatening. They ignore you because you represent nothing of value to them.
> 
> One day that kind of nonsense will get you bitten, I sincerely hope the dog doesnt have to pay the ultimate price for your foolishness.
> ...


@Blitzkrieg1
How come he is cuddling with me on his own free will? I rather exercise than do all of that. I was discharged after the hospital than so couldn't exercise any dogs. 



 



 



give me proof here dogs don't care about me. I did NOT ask the dogs to do this.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

By the way, we all know humanizing dogs is a bad idea. Although, got to admit once in a while we all get carried away. Haven't humanize dogs since then until today...  Ughh I hate my bad HABIT!!


----------



## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> @Blitzkrieg1
> How come he is cuddling with me on his own free will? I rather exercise than do all of that. I was discharged after the hospital than so couldn't exercise any dogs. Trio Dogs laying - YouTube Lobo and I cuddle - YouTube Adventure with Husky and Labradoodle - YouTube
> give me proof here dogs don't care about me. I did NOT ask the dogs to do this.


Those are three videos of dogs acting completely normal. Nothing out of the ordinary. Lobo appears to be a very stable, tolerant GSD but there is nothing more to his body language than that. In the third video the dogs are actively ignoring you.

It's clear that you really want to be able to communicate with dogs on a deeper level. Take a few classes with your dog. It's really the fastest way to build a bond and the instructor can show you how to improve your timing with rewards. Right now you are bribing. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

Okay . . . it's often said that dogs can have unbalanced training . . . people can too . . . they often don't know they have unbalanced training . . .

A checklist:
- health: nutrition and fitness
- social interaction: acquaintances, close friends, and a romantic other
- professional development: a plan, a path, some progress
- leisure time pursuits: mental rest and recovery time, recreation/hobby

That's just off the top of my head. No one's life is perfect, but there should be reasonable checks from time to time to make sure life has a healthy balance. If you ask me . . . which no one did . . . having finished my strength straining and taken in some quality nutrition, I'm going to go spend some time with my romantic other and a good book . . .


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I used to have a friend of a friend that would come over all the time and play with my dogs. Normally I really wouldn't care, I like when people like my dogs but it got to be a bit too much. He would let the dogs lick the inside of his mouth, lay down and let them climb all over him, call the dogs away from me when I was talking to them or giving them commands, take treats that I had given them out of their mouths and command them to do something to get it back, try to train them the way HE thought they should be trained, and talk about how they loved him and he loved them. It got so bad I started putting them to bed when he came over and eventually we asked him to not come over anymore. If I had found out he took video or pictures of my dogs without my permission I would be VERY upset. I can understand why Lobo's owners decided not to have you two around each other anymore, it's unsettling and not healthy.

You HAVE a dog! If you obsessed and put as much effort into your own dog as you do Lobo than you may have a better bond with your dog. I say "may" because some dogs really don't like to be pestered like that. Work with your dog and when you live on your own you can be ready to have a GSD of your own  I'm not that much older than you and I have my own place and my own dogs. Get through school and I have no doubts you will be able to do the same!


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I used to have a friend of a friend that would come over all the time and play with my dogs. Normally I really wouldn't care, I like when people like my dogs but it got to be a bit too much. He would let the dogs lick the inside of his mouth, lay down and let them climb all over him, call the dogs away from me when I was talking to them or giving them commands, take treats that I had given them out of their mouths and command them to do something to get it back, try to train them the way HE thought they should be trained, and talk about how they loved him and he loved them. It got so bad I started putting them to bed when he came over and eventually we asked him to not come over anymore. If I had found out he took video or pictures of my dogs without my permission I would be VERY upset. I can understand why Lobo's owners decided not to have you two around each other anymore, it's unsettling and not healthy.
> 
> You HAVE a dog! If you obsessed and put as much effort into your own dog as you do Lobo than you may have a better bond with your dog. I say "may" because some dogs really don't like to be pestered like that. Work with your dog and when you live on your own you can be ready to have a GSD of your own  I'm not that much older than you and I have my own place and my own dogs. Get through school and I have no doubts you will be able to do the same!


@Sarah

I agree this relationship with Lobo was unhealthy but could switch around to healthy. By letting it go move forward and maybe start up a brand fresh start. Now I realized my mistakes for my next dog I hope not to make the same mistakes twice.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Lobobear44 said:


> @Sarah
> 
> I agree this relationship with Lobo was unhealthy but could switch around to healthy. By letting it go move forward and maybe start up a brand fresh start. Now I realized my mistakes for my next dog I hope not to make the same mistakes twice.


My opinion is you should let it go, and if in the future Lobo's owners decide they would like you and Lobo to be around each other and you think you can do that without falling into the same habits and obsessing again then great! But I would not pester them about it, just focus on what YOU need to do to get your own life in order, not on how to make them believe that you won't be that way with him anymore. 

Saying that the relationship is unhealthy but could turn around and become healthy is not letting go... You are still holding on to the fact you COULD be in Lobo's life again and right now I think that is not what you need to be putting your energy into, you are 18 and about to start making a life of your own you should be focused on going to college and getting ready to start a career


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Dogs draw their strength from us, not the other way around. If they sense that we are too needy, they become unbalanced. They need us to balance them, not the other way around.

Dogs are energy sponges/mirrors.
They take who and what you are and reflect it right back at you. They can only give you strength and support if they get it from you to begin with.

What do your parents do, and how much do you talk to them? Can you go to them just to talk about things? 

People need support systems, but a dog is unable provide that kind of support.

If you love spending time with dogs, you must first take care of yourself, mind and body. You need to build yourself up before you even think of sharing your vibes with a dog. 
You need to seek love, strength and support from the correct sources, sources that are able to give.


Work on yourself. Seek counseling, get a good education, do everything you can to become strong and independent, and then you can get a dog and have that give and take you want so badly.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think if you are serious about training dogs, you need to join a club like obedience, agility, flyball....anything. I too used to walk dogs on my spare time and was always frustrated by the dogs' behavior or lack of training. I always wanted to intervene but did not because 1) they were not my dogs and 2) I was being paid to walk the dog, not try to train it. However I felt about it, the owners liked their dogs the way they were. If that is your only exposure to dogs, I can understand why it might be very frustrating at times and you want to do more, but you can't get more experience or practical knowledge by just walking or hanging out with other peoples' dogs. Take your dog to training and set a goal, a small goal (like you are going to train him to roll over or something like that) and start from there.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Liesje said:


> I think if you are serious about training dogs, you need to join a club like obedience, agility, flyball....anything. I too used to walk dogs on my spare time and was always frustrated by the dogs' behavior or lack of training. I always wanted to intervene but did not because 1) they were not my dogs and 2) I was being paid to walk the dog, not try to train it. However I felt about it, the owners liked their dogs the way they were. If that is your only exposure to dogs, I can understand why it might be very frustrating at times and you want to do more, but you can't get more experience or practical knowledge by just walking or hanging out with other peoples' dogs. Take your dog to training and set a goal, a small goal (like you are going to train him to roll over or something like that) and start from there.


Yeah your right. Perhaps look up a class. I hope I get more bonded with him. Not guarantee it will be strong as my fantasy connection with Lobo. Life is full of disappointments.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Sarah~ said:


> I used to have a friend of a friend that would come over all the time and play with my dogs. Normally I really wouldn't care, I like when people like my dogs but it got to be a bit too much. He would let the dogs lick the inside of his mouth, lay down and let them climb all over him, call the dogs away from me when I was talking to them or giving them commands, take treats that I had given them out of their mouths and command them to do something to get it back, try to train them the way HE thought they should be trained, and talk about how they loved him and he loved them. It got so bad I started putting them to bed when he came over and eventually we asked him to not come over anymore. If I had found out he took video or pictures of my dogs without my permission I would be VERY upset. I can understand why Lobo's owners decided not to have you two around each other anymore, it's unsettling and not healthy.
> 
> You HAVE a dog! If you obsessed and put as much effort into your own dog as you do Lobo than you may have a better bond with your dog. I say "may" because some dogs really don't like to be pestered like that. Work with your dog and when you live on your own you can be ready to have a GSD of your own  I'm not that much older than you and I have my own place and my own dogs. Get through school and I have no doubts you will be able to do the same!



Holy crap, your lucky you didnt come home to a boiled bunny single white female style, the dude sounds way off.


----------



## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Holy crap, your lucky you didnt come home to a boiled bunny single white female style, the dude sounds way off.


... and the OP does not?


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

hey come on guys, this thread just settled down.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> hey come on guys, this thread just settled down.


I was not talking about the OP ,


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Holy crap, your lucky you didnt come home to a boiled bunny single white female style, the dude sounds way off.


The boiled rabbit was in Fatal Attraction.


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> The boiled rabbit was in Fatal Attraction.


lol single white female must have been crazy too


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Holy crap, your lucky you didnt come home to a boiled bunny single white female style, the dude sounds way off.


@misslesleedavis

What do you mean?


----------



## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> Yeah your right. Perhaps look up a class. I hope I get more bonded with him. Not guarantee it will be strong as my fantasy connection with Lobo. Life is full of disappointments.


1. Stop hoping you will get more bonded with him. bond with your own dog. The breed doesn't matter. Who cares that you have a labradoodle, it being "not a gsd" is not the reason why your bond suffers, it's because you don't care about your bond with your own dog, you post pages and pages and "hope" you get more bonded with someone else's dog. Why not HOPE you bond with your own??? 

2. Just because the dogs cuddle with you doesn't mean they care immensely for you. My dog will cuddle with people that I welcome into my home and sure it looks like she cares, but it will never come close to how fiercely she cares for my boyfriend and I. 

3. As far as these videos and guidance...all the videos show you just messing around with dogs, talking in a cutesy voice. No leadership whatsover. You need to practice teaching dogs too if you want to be a good trainer and leader. I can tell you right now if I left you with my dog she would listen to you for 10 minutes and then blow you off on every command and call all the shots herself .

When you tried to teach Lobo to shake, what I saw is him ignoring you-- you reinforcing that when you say "shake" he only has to obey maybe 1/20 times that you say it... If you say shake and the dog does not respond, pick up the paw, "good shake" and reward the dog. The more times you repeat a command and get no response, the more you lose your role as a leader and the dog realizes that when you say something, they don't really have to do it because you'll just ask again another 10 times. This type of stuff can erase training people have put on a dog and make the dog a little more unreliable, but not always - some dogs will continue to be obedient to their owner. 

Go to a shelter, volunteer. The shelter I used to volunteer at had training seminars and you got 50 dogs to pick from and practice on every time you took them for a walk. You can even pick out the ones you think would bond closely to you or seem to be personalities you like, just get out there and practice training on more dogs if your own dog is not enough. Read some books. Stay away from your neighbors or whoever has the gsd. Respect their wishes. 

I'm almost 22, so I"m relatively young like you and so I still know what it feels like to have ambitions and dreams of being a dog trainer, but the only way to work towards being a better trainer is to work with whatyou have, or create opportunities. Right now you have a dog who I am sure isn't stupid. If you think about what I said about teaching Lobo the paw thing, your dog probably is just conditioned to wait til you demand things 20 times before deciding to comply. I'm sure he's the opposite of dumb


----------



## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> @misslesleedavis
> 
> What do you mean?


Read Sarahs post


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Yeah your right. Perhaps look up a class. I hope I get more bonded with him. Not guarantee it will be strong as my fantasy connection with Lobo. Life is full of disappointments.


Labradoodle or Gsd, both are dogs and bonding with a dog doesn't depend on breed. 

I've a lab/boxer and a bullmastiff/lab. I feel I'm above bonding with a dog. They are animals and I rule them. 

I drive them hard and they serve me well. My dogs would woop your average Gsd. lol


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

mego said:


> 1. Stop hoping you will get more bonded with him. bond with your own dog. The breed doesn't matter. Who cares that you have a labradoodle, it being "not a gsd" is not the reason why your bond suffers, it's because you don't care about your bond with your own dog, you post pages and pages and "hope" you get more bonded with someone else's dog. Why not HOPE you bond with your own???
> 
> 2. Just because the dogs cuddle with you doesn't mean they care immensely for you. My dog will cuddle with people that I welcome into my home and sure it looks like she cares, but it will never come close to how fiercely she cares for my boyfriend and I.
> 
> ...


I taught Lobo give me a paw. He does it well now! That was back in July. I guess your right he doesn't care. Might've cared a little more if I had the guts to go more variety of places instead of smothering him back than. Now I don't like smothering or when others do it. I rather go out and do stuff. I do volunteer at SPCA once a week.


----------



## TexasCrane (Nov 13, 2013)

Out of curiosity, have your parents seen these videos, your forum posts, or talked with your neighbor about their dog and you?


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

What strikes me as a good path forward would be learning about dog behavior. I mean quality learning, at a professional level if that is possible.

I would say don't worry about training tactics right now. Lots of exposure to dogs would be needed to accomplish high-level understanding of the topic, but I think training should not be the focus. One thing at a time. Dog behavior and psychology first, implementation can be ramped up later.

The reason I say this might be a productive path is that obviously there is a desire to keep in the "dog world," and also because I would expect a lot of crossover benefits to other aspects of life.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Depends on his goals. When I'm looking for a trainer the only criteria I really care about is whether the person has *experience* training/titling/competing (if applicable) in the activity. I don't care if a person has a PhD in dog behavior or animal psychology, if they've never done a BH with a dog I'm not going to them for training help in Schutzhund obedience. A lot of organizations that give titles/certifications for dog trainers are just a matter of paying dues to that organization. I say, put up or shut up. Either you've trained dogs or you haven't.

Just being around a lot of dogs you don't own and have no control over can be really exhausting. That is why I always hesitate a little inside when people suggest volunteering at an animal shelter to "train" dogs or for beginners to get experience working with dogs. I started that way myself and it was just so frustrating and emotionally draining. It's hard as a novice to be working with some of the toughest cases as far as behavior, neglect, and just genetically bad temperament. It is very important work, of course, but if the OP really wants *training* experience, well, then he needs to train dogs and not just dabble with dogs that aren't his and he can't realistically set goals and follow through.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Liesje said:


> Depends on his goals. When I'm looking for a trainer the only criteria I really care about is whether the person has *experience* training/titling/competing (if applicable) in the activity. I don't care if a person has a PhD in dog behavior or animal psychology, if they've never done a BH with a dog I'm not going to them for training help in Schutzhund obedience. A lot of organizations that give titles/certifications for dog trainers are just a matter of paying dues to that organization. I say, put up or shut up. Either you've trained dogs or you haven't.
> 
> Just being around a lot of dogs you don't own and have no control over can be really exhausting. That is why I always hesitate a little inside when people suggest volunteering at an animal shelter to "train" dogs or for beginners to get experience working with dogs. I started that way myself and it was just so frustrating and emotionally draining. It's hard as a novice to be working with some of the toughest cases as far as behavior, neglect, and just genetically bad temperament. It is very important work, of course, but if the OP really wants *training* experience, well, then he needs to train dogs and not just dabble with dogs that aren't his and he can't realistically set goals and follow through.


Well there is a training internship for volunteers at my shelter. So once my boss sees me coming more frequently than I can get that training internship!


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Depends on his goals. When I'm looking for a trainer the only criteria I really care about is whether the person has *experience* training/titling/competing (if applicable) in the activity. I don't care if a person has a PhD in dog behavior or animal psychology, . . . .


That's not what I'm getting at, not at all. Professional competence in dog training is entirely beside the point.

I don't know Lobobear44, but he is doing a very good impression of someone who very much needs to improve skills dealing with pack environments - people as well as dogs.

There are so many scary similarities between human and dog psychology that I think studying dogs will have a lot of side benefit to dealing with people - that's actually the driving thought behind my suggestion of learning dog behavior and psychology.

So . . . I'm an engineer. Being an engineer and being unsociable is a chicken-and-egg problem: do people become engineers because they have no social skills, or does becoming an engineer do it to us?

It's moot, really. What I did to improve my people skills was to study it like hydraulics or something. I went from a typical nerd-boy with very few social skills to an engineer known for dealing well with the public and with difficult people.

I saw that I had a deficit, and I undertook to solve it in a way I understood: studying it as an engineering problem.

I think we all are like that. We have to approach learning from directions we can have success. Given that he likes dogs so much, perhaps learning dog behavior is a way to kill two birds with one stone, if you will.

Lord knows, if I can learn to deal with people, anyone can.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I just think that in his case "studying" dogs, if he's serious about it, needs to mean more getting out and actually training dogs, not just visiting dogs he knows or quietly observing dogs and talking to them. Honestly, the more I train dogs the more I *don't* think that human psychology applies, other than the basic concepts like operant and classical conditioning. Dogs do not think the same way and are not motivated the same way. The OP already seems to have a more extreme tendency to anthropomorphize dogs. He needs to learn what really makes a dog tick and not obsess over a fantastical "bond".


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I just think that in his case "studying" dogs, if he's serious about it, needs to mean more getting out and actually training dogs, . . . .


I'm a fan of understanding the basics well before moving on to skill alone.

Everything I have encountered has been that way. The people who I watch make the biggest mistakes are often very highly skilled, but they don't understand the fundamentals of what they are doing very well.

Familiarity and real understanding are two completely different things.

My feeling is that both are needed to be a top-level trainer. Understand first, then concentrate on building skill up from that. Otherwise one is left to following recipe books (by that I mean blind trust in someone's advice) and hoping for the best. Following recipes works fine 90% of the time. It's that other 10% that will take you down.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The problem here though is that the OP is busy reading books on training that are contrary to how the dog is actually being trained. Just reading books and understand those theories has already got him in trouble. He doesn't understand why the dog is being trained that way because he doesn't have any practical experience training Lobo. Some of the best dog trainers I know and people I would trust with my dogs and to help my own training often misuse fairly basic terms/concepts that apply to both human psychology and dog training. I attended a seminar given by someone who travels all over giving the same type of seminar, making money doing this and some of the info presented was downright wrong from a "book smarts" standpoint but most people didn't notice because they are only interested in the practical application...actually working and training their dog.

I actually agree with you that the basic theory *is* important for a complete understanding but I find that when it comes to dog training, most good trainers figure that stuff out along the way. They insist they are not training based on book and theory but really they are doing exactly what you'd find in a textbook, they just refuse to acknowledge the terminology.


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

Liesje said:


> The problem here though is that the OP is busy reading books on training that are contrary to how the dog is actually being trained. . . . .


The really important thing is to understand the "whys" of whatever it is you are doing. Watching a professional in action and being able to talk with them to be sure you understand what you are doing is ideal. "Because it works" doesn't count. Encountering someone who can (and will) explain the whys is extremely uncommon.

The main advantage I see to study is that it can be more general, and because of that parallels can be drawn between people and dogs, and a foundational understanding build up for both at the same time. I've been coming at that from the other direction, learning about personnel management for my work and sports psychology for my off-the-clock, clocked endeavors  . I keep getting deja vu with the dog training I've been going through.

But that's not a workable path for everyone. When it's not I would say take a brutally honest look at what deficits there are, and approach each one directly and explicitly.

What I would not want to see is avoidance of foundational knowledge for the sake of "jumping in" and attaining some skill set rapidly. Not the best way to set one's self apart.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I see it more like sports though, like gymnastics. I wasn't developing my routines based on the physics. Most gymnasts at their peak are not even mentally mature enough to understand the hows and whys even if they wanted to. Good training in sport and with dogs is developed through trial and error, time and energy (repetition), developing a "muscle memory", having confidence in oneself.... The results speak for themselves.


----------



## beezaur (Jul 2, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I see it more like sports though, like gymnastics. I wasn't developing my routines based on the physics. . . . .


Exercise physiology is the academic end of that, not physics.

Years ago I paid a personal trainer for my strength training. Best money I ever spent, but I did not understand anything. It didn't matter functionally, because I had (accidentally) chosen a competent trainer and - most of all - I had a 20-something body that still could be abused without consequence.

Fast forward 20 years and I get knocked off my bike, air-lifted to critical for a week. A half dozen breaks and 9 months later I was back to exercise, but with different goals (aging well, preventing injury, etc.). So I got the texts that personal trainers are trained with, went through them as I waited for my broken neck bones to stick themselves back together.

The studying I did opened a whole new world for me, fitness-wise. I'm not a personal trainer by any stretch, but I know far, far more about it than what I might "learn by doing" or just following directions. I can manage my own training and nutrition in ways that are far more flexible and customizable to my own situation.

What I am saying is that careful study almost always is required to become very good at anything. Being average is not that hard. It all depends on what one is after.


----------



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Liesje said:


> I just think that in his case "studying" dogs, if he's serious about it, needs to mean more getting out and actually training dogs, not just visiting dogs he knows or quietly observing dogs and talking to them. Honestly, the more I train dogs the more I *don't* think that human psychology applies, other than the basic concepts like operant and classical conditioning. Dogs do not think the same way and are not motivated the same way. The OP already seems to have a more extreme tendency to anthropomorphize dogs. He needs to learn what really makes a dog tick and not obsess over a fantastical "bond".


I think when I go to the humane society for an orientation I will ask for a personal mentor.


----------

