# Does the dog need training or do the people? :/



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm tired of getting in trouble for Eko barking at people who just walk into our house. I say it's their fault, for just walking in after I've been telling them ever since Eko was 10 weeks old "Knock before you come in". But at the same time the guys I live with will tell people to just come in without letting me know so I can hold onto him. He doesn't bark at people who live in the house. I don't know how but he knows when it's someone who lives at the house or visits frequently, and when it's someone who he's only seen once or twice or never. He usually starts the barking as soon as the door starts to open. 

Basically what he does is when the stranger walks in he charges toward the door barking but stops about a foot in front of them and holds them at the door by barking until *I* tell him to relax or grab his collar. My boyfriend and my roommates can't calm him down, usually because they are ramping him up by yelling at him to shut up and chasing him, which just makes him circle the new person and pins them to the spot. If I am doing something and don't jump up to get him I get yelled at to get my dog and to train him better. I tell them I'm not going to try to train this out of him because I DON'T like just anybody walking in, I mean come on that's one of the reasons I got a GSD! One of our friends he barks at always just barges in, yelling that he's here, then kicking the door shut behind him. Needless to say, that sends Eko into a frenzy and he's lucky he comes over often enough that Eko doesn't just run up and bite him. I've told him countless times if he doesn't like it not to do that. 

Maybe I'm totally wrong here but I don't think Eko has done anything wrong, it's only people he doesn't know well and a few times when people he does know have startled him but on those occasions it's like one bark then he's running up to rub on them and give kisses.

If I am wrong, does he need trained? I'd say I'd just put him in the crate before they walk in but 9 times out of 10 I have NO warning. 

Edit: I wanted to add that once I tell him to relax he is absolutely fine, and goes up to sniff and lick them. I just have to give the O.K.


----------



## erfunhouse (Jun 8, 2013)

I say it's BOTH. Through body language he needs to learn that "moms got this" and not be afraid (this is fear reactivity I believe. And the same thing I'm dealing with). Additionally those two "men" and their friends need to grow up!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I think I have to agree with you, the fear thing makes sense, he is in general an anxious dog, we've been working with him with lunging at cars and separation anxiety, it's healed now but he also licked a small patch of skin on his leg raw for no reason. The vet said that could also just be anxiety we had to put a cone on him for a couple weeks to help break that habit.

I'm happy you agree that our friends aren't totally blameless either, though! He's always been fabulous with people, and even now once I get him to calm down it's like nothing happened, he goes up for attention then sits back in his spot on the couch or the floor. But the last couple of times this happened I noticed while he was barking and standing in front of them he does the hopping forward, hopping back sort of thing, his body's been stiffer, and his barks have started to get a little bit scarier, if you know what I mean. I've been defending Eko but that definitely put some doubt into my mind. Probably the reason I came here for some advice.


----------



## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

What age is the dog now?

Who's at fault if the dog bites somebody?

You are putting the dog in a situation where it can act like this. You know how your friends and visitors act and still leave the dog there in that environment when your not there or unable to stop the dog.

You also know how the dog will act. If it happens everyday the dog will continue to bark and hold at the door. You will continue to frustrate everybody and the situation will get worse.

Crate the dog in your room or just put into the room and train it to not react when in there.

Allowing it to go on will lead to an accident. Someday somebody will be afraid of the dog and the dog will feed of that. The dog may be fearful but that can quickly change when it senses fear from people.


----------



## Jashelgren (Aug 31, 2013)

Your roommates are a mess. I praise my boy for alerting me of a stranger. I live on a large rural property where many people choose to fish and hunt. He has an amazing capability to know someone is around or at the door long before me due to his heightened senses. My husband works out of town during the week, so buck plays the role of man of the house well. He does not let any stranger get within 20 feet of my children without my okay. On the other hand he is the sweetest baby once the okay is given. He does tend to stick right beside the visitor just in case there is an issue. I cannot tell him enough how proud I am of him and what I love most is his protective spirit over my children's playmates. He loves them! If one of your roommates friends get bit, it is on them. Put a beware of dog sign on the door and write must knock underneath. That is a warning. German shepherds will also give plenty of warning before a bite. Barking, growling, aggressive still stance. There is no surprise here people. I am so sorry you live with ignorant people.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

your dog is doing what you want. your friends need to be more
responsible.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Sit the boys down and tell them you're not about to have a dog bite on your hands because they're idiots. 
Put a chain lock on the door and use it when you're home. It'll stop people from just walking in and give you time to control your dog. (crate, calm him down, whatever)


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

He's 1 and a 1/2 now and I do have beware of dog signs in my window and on my fence, I will add the "must knock" to it, though. 

I try not to put him in that situation but my warnings are being ignored and I can't just crate him up all day long in anticipation of someone just walking into the house... Unless I am out of the room I usually grab onto him or call him off immediately and then you'd swear it was a different dog. If he continued to be aggressive even after I called him off I wouldn't hesitate to put him in another room but he simply isn't aggressive after... it's like a switch is flipped! It does seem like the more afraid the person becomes the worse it gets until I get him. He isn't neutered, I'm sure that doesn't help at all. 

All I want is a knock... If they knock he does bark to alert me but he is quiet after I let them in. Sometimes he doesn't even get up off the floor! I don't want anyone getting bit, I'd feel awful but I feel like if they aren't listening to my warnings at some point they will stop listening to Eko's and keep walking while he's doing this and they WILL be bitten if that happens.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Sit the boys down and tell them you're not about to have a dog bite on your hands because they're idiots.
> Put a chain lock on the door and use it when you're home. It'll stop people from just walking in and give you time to control your dog. (crate, calm him down, whatever)


This sounds like an excellent idea! I'll talk to the guys and go to the store today


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Rather than trying to get people to walk before coming in, why don't you just keep the door locked? I know it's more challenging with roommates who may not think it's a big deal, but you can always lock the door yourself. 

Our door is always locked, I can't imagine people just walking into the house! My dogs would definitely not be okay with that either.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If it is your dog, he is your responsibility no matter how irresponsible your room mates are. I just had a private training in a situation like this.
Advice: keep the dog crated in your room if you are not home and lock your room. Keep him on leash when you expect visitors you can control and work with him. Plenty of exercise and training.


----------



## a_dugas6 (Aug 27, 2013)

If someone that my dog doesn't know well just walked in to my house, I want her to react! Your dog is a GSD, but if it was a Chihuahua, the "friends" would have probably already been bitten! Lock the door, OCD style, check it regularly. After a few times of the friends getting used to it being locked and HAVING to knock, they will start assuming it is always locked and knock just out of habit, humans can be trained also, just need repetition. You just have to be okay with having to go open the door whenever they knock.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I was raised that way too, people don't just burst in. I started locking the door after I got home today, I have no problem getting up to let them in every time it's much better than the alternative 

I would do the leash training with the visitors I control but that's the thing... If they knock there is no issue. He barks to tell me, I let them in, no aggression. When they walk in by themselves, it's like he's saying "Hey, that's not the way you come in here". I work at night so he is usually in bed the only times I'm not home, so I have the time to work with him if that's what I have to do.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wolfy dog said:


> If it is your dog, he is your responsibility no matter how irresponsible your room mates are. I just had a private training in a situation like this.
> Advice: keep the dog crated in your room if you are not home and lock your room. Keep him on leash when you expect visitors you can control and work with him. Plenty of exercise and training.


I agree with this. You'll never have control of all the people in the world. 

But your dog is YOUR DOG and you can teach him to do better. I always choose to focus on what I can work on rather than complain and moan about all the things that may not be right, but I can not do anything about them. CLEARLY you can't control your 'friends'.



> I tell them I'm not going to try to train this out of him because I DON'T like just anybody walking in, I mean come on that's one of the reasons I got a GSD! *One of our friends he barks at always just barges in, yelling that he's here, then kicking the door shut behind him. Needless to say, that sends Eko into a frenzy and he's lucky he comes over often enough that Eko doesn't just run up and bite him.* I've told him countless times if he doesn't like it not to do that.


 
But the issue is that this is a friend (your words). This is someone that's not a real threat. This is someone you know and your dog has met. 

Because you believe you want your dog to 'protect you' you are instead confusing him and putting him in a bad situation that truthfully will probably end up with someone getting bitten. It's YOUR responsibility to manage your dogs world so it's a safe happy place with reasonable people in it. Especially the first few VITAL years of socialization that get you a calm, stable, thinking adult dog. 

If you aren't home, and you can't trust your friends, then your dog needs to be crated.

If you ARE home then you need a better plan to SHOW YOUR DOG it's ok. I'm not so worried about a few barks if someone is at the door. But when YOU then say it's ok, then your dog should go off the high alert and think, oh..........Dad's got it, it truly is ok.

Have you gone to dog classes? Have you done alot of socialization and training outside the home? Has your dog meet hundreds of 'stranger' in new and different places weekly? Have you cemented your relationship as the leader in the relationship (a calm confident leader position that your dog looks to and cues from?).


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

He does stop when I tell him to stop, just not anyone else. That's why my boyfriend and roommates yell at me when I can't immediately get to him, because I'm the only one who does any training with him. We did go to a couple of obedience classes at the humane society and he knows basic obedience, but again I'm the only one who went so I'm the only one he thinks he needs to listen to. I think he sees me in a leader position, I've always made him work for any treats and food and especially since he's gotten older I don't really have any trouble getting him to listen to me. 

As far as socialization, he meets lots of people on walks with no issue, petsmart trips are OK, he recently hasn't done so well with tons of people around, the obedience classes, and he loves our park behind the school because he really likes kids. It's just once he gets home he gets really territorial and restless, he likes to patrol the house a lot and we have to shut the bedroom door at night or he won't sleep, he would just pace the house all night long. This has been going on about as long as the door issues, and he treats our bedroom door the same way as the front door. 

I've been locking the front door and that helps a lot, but only when I'm awake. I work 3rd shift, so he sleeps when I'm gone then when I sleep during the day I can't make myself cage him up when my boyfriend is up and around, he is always caged up if my boyfriend leaves, though. The guys unlock the door when I go to sleep, but no one comes over until the afternoon when I'm getting up and around, at least not anyone who would just walk in.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

So instead of locking the door today, I opened it and left the screen door shut because he likes to look out and I thought maybe if he saw the person coming it wouldn't be so bad, but it didn't really help. It made him more anxious watching everything outside. My roomie ordered a pizza and I didn't know until my roomie came in and said the delivery driver refused to even go past the gate to our house until Eko was put up. I guess Eko was staring the guy down and I didn't notice since he never made a sound.

Would it help a little bit if I had him neutered?


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Maybe it will help you if you take all our advice. I can't believe you are serious.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Maybe it will help you if you take all our advice more seriously.


Um... What am I not taking seriously? I started locking the door and now I'm trying other things to help? If I didn't care why would I even bother to come back to this thread? Maybe you are misunderstanding my posts.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Ok, the growling at the pizza man is an idea to get him neutered? Take a class, hire a private trainer and get in charge of the situation. My final answer


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I never said he growled, just stared at him hard enough to scare the guy. One didn't really have anything to do with the other I was just sharing something that happened today and trying to think of other things that might help, obviously I'm no expert I was just wondering.

I found a reactive dog class on the humane society website, calling them on Tuesday since tomorrow is a holiday. I was hoping maybe they would have a good recommendation for an experienced trainer if not and I go online to look what do I need to look for on the trainer's site to make sure that they are a good one? That's what I'm worried about I rarely hear about any kind of trainers in my area most people just go to classes at petsmart.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Go to Association of Pet Dog Trainers - Dog Training Resources and then to "trainer search". From the info so far I believe he is a normal GSD who needs structure, tons of exercise, mental stimulation and training and leadership. 
Please give it your all ,if you cannot do that, find him a good experienced home.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Sarah~ said:


> I found a reactive dog class on the humane society website, calling them on Tuesday since tomorrow is a holiday. I was hoping maybe they would have a good recommendation for an experienced trainer if not and I go online to look what do I need to look for on the trainer's site to make sure that they are a good one? That's what I'm worried about I rarely hear about any kind of trainers in my area most people just go to classes at petsmart.


I took a reactive dog class years ago with Cassidy, and it was a very good experience. Maybe you should just sign up for that and see how it goes?


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol, just thinking about the pizza guy seeing Eko merely sitting there, and deciding not to rock the boat. Yup, a GSD on the porch or lazing on the lawn has kept all sorts of people on the sidewalk in my life too. Oh well, usually it was just junk mail or door-to door 'who cares' type of stuff. 

I lived like this too. Way back when. But I was always very harsh with the friends and roomies because I had cats that I didn't want having access to the outdoors. So rather than a barking dog, they had a yelling human. Way worse, lol. Effective


----------



## Jericfos (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm not sure if the OP is still responding but i would like to add that my GSD did not not growl and bark before attacking, contrary to a couple things i've seen posted here. My dog would growl and bark in general at strangers, but not when he was gonna bite. If my dog was silent around a stranger that stranger was about to get bit. Unfortunately it took us a few bites to learn that and then in the end my dog, who i loved, was put down. 
I tell you this just to say please take control of your situation, things can get bad quickly. Your original story sounds like it's leading to some bites, just my opinion.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, I think you're right Jericfos - not to say the this dog will end up PTS for biting everyone, but that it's better to anticipate that someone will eventually get bitten rather than letting these people carry on with their (IMO, *very* rude and ignorant) behavior. That's why my general way of being is more along the lines of 'forget about the dog, beware of the owner' lol. OP, can you move out? This is a rotten situation for you and your dog if you can't force them to act in a more civilized manner.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There's not enough info here for me to say whether I think he's being fearful or he's very appropriate or what. But I agree that he's your responsibility and if YOU are concerned he might escalate then you need to make sure he can't behave like this. I don't agree that he's wrong/bad. My GSD acts much the same way. People in the household come in, people he knows he will probably bark when they come up but then see who it is and act happy, people he doesn't know get barked at until I tell him to stop. If I'm expecting someone he doesn't know, I put him up and then if they are a dog person I will get him out later and he's fine because I've already let the person in and he defers to me. This dog has protection training and titles but no bite history outside of the training/sport. He's not a fearful or "reactive" dog or whatever you want to call it. Two days ago he was running around off leash inside and out with two adults and four kids he doesn't know, but he's a stable dog and once he sees they are no threat and that I "approve" their presence, they are his friends. He played tug and fetch with these kids for hours. However I have my own house and only live with my husband so I don't have random people coming and going a lot, barking is not really an issue for me even if my dog will alert to a "stranger" at the door. If I lived with other people my age and they had their friends coming and going, I'd not have a dog like this or I'd make sure he didn't have access to the door unless I was ready to control him. When my sister dogsits for me I often take my GSD with me or board him with another friend because I allow her to have her BF and friends over. I trust my sister but I don't know or trust her friends around my GSD. Easier just to take him out of the picture than risk one of them charging in and acting all stupid. I guess my point is if you can't control your roommates you can at least control the dog's access to the door.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

I did want to make an update on this, in case anyone was curious. 

After throwing a bit of a temper tantrum, my roommates have made more of an effort to keep people from just walking in in addition to me locking the door during the day. I put ANOTHER beware of dog sign right on the door, one of those little 99 cent ones from petsmart. We have had a trainer come over twice, he agrees that Eko needs more structure and leadership from me, and more exercise. I figured that would be part of it, it's been 100+ here lately and I was making a lot of excuses this summer not to work him (and me) too hard... My boyfriend has been helping me do better with that, though, and now we're walking him twice as much, I take him in the morning and my boyfriend in the evening when it's cooler. 

We've been keeping him on leash in the house, especially when we know someone is coming over and when they knock I have him sit and stay while my boyfriend answers the door. He still barks when they knock, but he is doing much better in staying and not running over to the person and being all over them like he used to be. He's far from perfect though, we did had an incident yesterday where we had the door open and the screen door closed and my roommate's girlfriend was walking up the steps to the porch. Before I realized she was there Eko was up, barking and charging the screen door, he busted it open and I barely got ahold of him before he got to her. I don't know what he would have done if I hadn't grabbed him, but he definitely did not seem friendly. That was my mistake, I should have been paying more attention and if I wanted just to have the screen door shut he should have been on-leash.

That incident got me thinking, though. This girl has been coming over for about a month and a half, and every time he has been ESPECIALLY aggressive to her. His barking is more vicious, and even if he is in a sit-stay when she knocks and is let in, he barks at her after she's in the house and he has tried to go after her more than once. It takes all my strength to hold him back from her and take him to his cage when he does that, and I'm just wondering what about her sets him off so much. She acts scared around him more than most people, not that I blame her, but even when she first came around she acted as if he would attack her at any moment. I'm thinking about having Mike (the trainer) come over and having her come over at the same time to see what he would say, but I don't know if she would be willing to do that. She's very afraid of Eko now and has been coming over much less. I've told her if she would tell us she's coming I'd put him in his cage before she got there to make her more comfortable, but she still hasn't. 

So we are making some progress but still slipping in others, but I understand we can't fix it overnight. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better just to put him in his cage every time someone knocks now, but 9 times out of 10 he really likes the person coming over and once we get past the excitement of them getting through the door he is a good boy.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm glad things are getting better for you. I have a busted screen door too, lol, but fortunately it only goes to my enclosed porch. My brother screwed some 'o-rings' into his, and wove thick metal wire through his, to keep his dogs in. If only our dogs would respect the screen, lol! 

I think having the trainer over when this girl comes by is an excellent idea. He can see what's going on, and also tell this girl what she's doing to encourage the behavior. It would be good for everyone, I think. Good luck with everything


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you  it's going slowly but in the end it will be worth it.

Hoping once we resolve the door issues we can work on his dog aggression as well.


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

So our trainer thinks Ashley (roommates gf Eko doesn't like) is making Eko so worked up because when he starts going after her she squeals, turns and covers her face and says "Please don't jump on me!" repeatedly. Not that I'm blaming her she has a right to be afraid, but the trainer thinks if she would be calmer Eko would be calmer. I talked to her and said as long as she knocked before entering I would have Eko on leash and I wouldn't let him jump on her or hurt her. Hopefully that helps her not be so scared and just walk in, ignore Eko and go where she needs to go in the house. Eko has been doing pretty good with training, he has been barking less when people knock, when my roommates just walk in the house he will jump to his feet and bark but he hasn't been charging.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

That was nice of Ashley to help! But yes, I say that she's causing much of the problem too. I used to have my guests turn with their back to my puppy, and then let him out of his crate, and tell people to totally ignore him. Pretty much the opposite of what she's doing, lol. It takes time, but you're getting there


----------



## Sarah~ (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, it's definitely not a quick process. Hopefully she can keep calm around him, she says she'll try, I have a feeling big dogs make her a bit nervous anyway. I'm sure the first time we do it and she sees it can be done it will be much easier after that.


----------

