# HIGH BUN and Creatinine Levels in an Otherwise "Normal" Shepherd



## ShinerBark (May 7, 2011)

I have a 2 year old GSD who has been diagnosed with Chronic Renal Failure by my regular veterinarian. This veterinarian works for a corporate chain and immediately referred me to a specialist for an ultrasound. After a sleepless night of research, I made the decision to forgo that recommendation and seek a second opinion from a "country" veterinarian. I have done this with the mind that he will be more straightforward and honest in his assessment. With the other vet, I got no answers, no suggestions on changing his diet or on making sure he was not dehydrated, NOTHING! She was happy enough to get me all worked up and sent off for what I believe are unnecessary tests. 

Anyway, thing is, now that I know the symptoms of kidney disease, I can honestly say that he has been exhibiting these for his entire lifespan! He has always been obsessed with water, he has always had frequent urination and he has, from time to time, vomited. He has NEVER been lethargic, wobbly or visibly "sick" at all. In fact, he's not sick right now, he is what he has always been, undersized, but extremely energetic and playful.

My immediate course of action since the diagnosis has been to change him over to raw diet, which he is attacking, and just watching that he is taking in enough water. I've been checking every few hours and he doesn't appear to be dehydrated. 

Obviously, there is an issue of that I have no doubt, but I have questions regarding the results of his blood work. As of last Wednesday, his BUN=185 and his Creatinine=8.9. From what I have gathered, these levels are dangerously high, but why isn't the dog sick? Can anyone chime in about those numbers and this case and give an opinion on his prognosis? I am scheduled to see the other vet on Monday, but this is killing me as you can imagine. I want to do the right thing, but I don't want to go running around like an emotional wreck, spending money on tests that aren't going to help the animal.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

They will not always show outward symptoms of being ill. Many young dogs with kidney issues will not show a single symptom until they get dangerously ill. Please take your dog to the specialist for more tests. 
One of my club members lost his pup from kidney failure (JRD). He did not show a single symptom until 3 days before he died.
Please do not ignore the results.


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## PuffinGirl (Feb 20, 2009)

If it were me, I would get my dog in to a specialist ASAP and not waste time on a second opinion. I think an ultrasound will go a long way in determining what's going on, and will not be a waste of money.

I hope things turn out ok for your dog!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

PuffinGirl said:


> If it were me, I would get my dog in to a specialist ASAP and not waste time on a second opinion.


I agree. I don't know much about kidney issues, but I do know that the creatinine number is more of a concern than the BUN, and your boy's creatinine is VERY high. 

I don't know why you'd think a country vet would be more "straightforward and honest" than a specialist.  This could be very, very serious, and if it were my dog I'd want him to be treated by the best, someone who knows a lot about kidney issues, not a country doctor who no matter how good he is, is just not going to have the same level of experience.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

if you love and care about your dog, which it sounds like you do...get him to a SPECIALIST right away. right away. he has had symptoms his WHOLE LIFE, has now had dangeriously high values on his bloodwork...no matter how he "acts", the next step in the progression of the disease could be sudden death. shepherds are notoriously stoic and often times do not show ANY outward signs that there is anything wrong.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

definitely go to the specialist! Your dogs symptoms sound a lot like my boy Logan. He initially presented with raised BUN, and excessive drinking and urination. 6 months later, he was in the ICU after a seizure. He spent an entire week there, and was diagnosed with syndrome of inappropriate anti diuretic hormone. Its rare, and the medication to treat it isn't available in the US. I lost him 9 months after that. 

You need to know what you're dealing with so you can treat it before it gets even more serious! For my boy, there was probably nothing that could have been done even if it was caught earlier, due to the medication not being available. But I still wish I had pushed harder in the beginning.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I lost my pup Rio at 16 months to this same thing. So here is my advice and lessons I learned. First get the ultasound, it will show you what is going on. Maybe his kidneys never developed correctly or he may have 1 good one which is what we hope for. The raw diet is excellent, my dog did a turn around (he was never really sick either) once on the raw. DO NOT get him vaccinated!!!!! DO NOT give him heartworm meds without doing some research. Remember everything that goes into your dog the kidneys must process. Vaccines and heartworm meds are what ended up killing my pup prematurely.

DO NOT let the vet talk you into a Rx diet, contrary to what most vets say renal failure dogs need high quality protein. Watch what you feed, phosphorus is bad so stay clear of to much peanut butter and check your ingredients. Organic is best when you can, add organic apple juice to your dogs food or offer it as a drink several times a week. It is good for him.

I also recommend testing the blood again in a few months since you have moved to raw and compare your levels. DO NOT let any vet offer any meds without a blood test. My vet insisted Rio was low on potassium and had us give high doses, upon reflection his potassium was never low on any blood test!

I have several other things but I need to pull it all together. There is a great Yahoo group called K9kidneys, join it. Please feel free to PM me if you need support or have questions. My heart goes out to you, this is not easy to deal with. :hugs: I miss my Rio but he chose me so I could help others. Get to the vet and find out what is going on. He is not showing sickness now but believe me when they crash it will rip your heart out.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

here is a good link 
How to Reduce BUN & Creatinine Levels in Dogs | eHow.com

you will also see other links off to the right, on reducing/explaining BUN and creatnine
levels.

I also would go for the ultrasound, tho your not seeing anything physically, if nothing is done, it could end up being very very serious..


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## M&J (Nov 16, 2002)

I'd scour through this site:
DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs


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## Tritonsmom (May 1, 2011)

*Renal Failure*

There are many causes of renal failure and when the dog is showing symptoms, its because its more advanced. The earliest clue is probably the abnormal BUN and Creatinine, because the dog will urinate but his urine is really diluted.
I could not afford the workup because my other dog had to have emergency surgery for bloat (which he survived and is 10y/o). I treated Triton with homemade low protein food (basically boiled rice in low sodium chicken broth, with egg as his source of protein) and controlled his phosphate levels with aluminum hydroxide. His one kidney never developed and the other one was at best 60% function; we put him down at 91/2 mos because of what we presumed was bone pain. Nonetheless, he was also anemic, and if we chose to treat his symptoms, he would died of congestive heart failure in the long run. It was hard, but we made a conscious decision to let him go because the outcome wouldn't change.


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