# Slow learner??



## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

My new pup is going to be 4 months wednesday. I've been trying to teach him sitz and platz since he was 2 months but he just doesn't seem to get it. I've been using the clicker and an all positive aproach. He understands that the click means food but he just doesn't seem to understand the words. He is slowly starting to understand sitz but the platz not so much. Now this is my first DDR dog so I'm new to this bloodline. I'm just wondering if anyone has had a pup like this. Maybe because the DDR line matures slower, I don't know. 
I'm definitely not new to OB training considering I've been training for over 6 years and have gotten many OB titles on my older two. 
I got him to do competition OB with and I'm in no rush as I want his training to be perfect from the beginning but he's a little "slow", lol. It does get frustrating as I feel like he just doesn't get it, so I stop before I get frustrated and not do it for a few days and then start it again for a few minutes a day.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Missy,

You mean a verbal sit and platz?


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Balto is over two years old and still doesn't seem to understand the words. (Sometimes I think he's ignoring me.)

Dogs, especially puppies, catch on better with physical cues or a combination of verbal and physical cues. 

I think it's because I talk so much that they just stopped listening.

Well, I guess you know this because I finally read the rest of your post. Doh! Maybe it's just personality. I always read on the working dog forum that those guys don't do any real training for the first year. I also wait until the dog is one year old, but my excuse is because I have older dogs I'm working with.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I know a good puppy class would really help you. Bet if you saw the issues everyone else was having, and got hints to help with your training, you'd see you have a 'Rocket Scientist' of a pup after all.

When you do the sit/down with the clicker you do NOT talk at all. You initially use the food to lure them into position, and when you click is VITAL! When the butt hits the floor for the sit. When the front elbows hit for the down. 

Do not talk.

You must have a hungry pup.

You must use REAL treats cut up teeny tiny (cheese? chicken? beef?).

Training sessions must be very short (minute?) with you always stopping BEFORE the pup wants too.

You must set up the puppy to 'win' and 'succeed' it has to seem like a fun game that the puppy always wins. More food, faster when the do it right. Be patient and let them figure it out if they ARE still engaged and thinking.

Do not talk.

YOu only add the verbal AFTER they are reliably doing the behavior. Otherwise our chat just muddies the water and stops them from thinking at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESZozdpmQMs

Initially we just click and treat to pair the sound with reward. But very quickly we must teach that what we really want is WHEN our pup does something they 'earn' the click and THEN the treat. It's key they learn the WHEN they do something then the click is just a bridge to get the treat. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlKv352EwS8&feature=fvw doesn't use the clicker but she really shows how you initially can use the food to lure the pup into position. Later you get the food out of the hand but can use it for a hand signal (still not word).

Here's how to lure the 'down' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBRVwgUVA...from=PL&index=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC367wKGi4M&feature=related I like to watch this cause it just reminds me about clicker stuff.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Verbal is weird. Some dogs get it very quickly and some take forever. 

Dottie who came to me as a totatlly wild, untrained 2 yr old already has a very solid verbal sit and down after a few months of training. But she seems to just have this sense that sounds coming out my mouth "means" something. Doesn't matter what I am doing, where I am standing, if I am looking or her or not. She is always listening, always ready to work.

Obie, on the other hand, is really bad at verbal. And I have had him since he was 10 weeks old. He really doesn't pay that much attention to my voice. With him, the whole "picture" needs to be right for him to do a command. For example, to get him to sit you not only have to say sit, you have to be standing within certain distance from him, either in front or by his heel position, right side. You can't be standing 5 feet away from him and at a 45 degree angle and say "sit". If you do, he would not even look at you or would look at you like you just spoke Russian.

With Ike I am going to try doing it French Ring style as a stationary change of positions. Put him on a table or in a box and have him do the position from there. We'll see how it goes.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/7-30-09news.flv

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/8-6-09-news.flv

These are a couple of short clips of Michael Ellis showing position training. The entire DVD has great information explaining this training work with puppies. Really has worked well with mine and others training here. It has good explanation of marking and rewarding. As others have said, the verbal comes last when the behavior is consistently as you want it.... the " don't name it till you love it" idea.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

missy, you send that akbar to me,,I could care less if he does anything other than look good ))))))))))))))

I had this problem with my male aussie,,it wasn't that he didn't understand, it was that "down" was not a position he liked to be in, (rescue issues etc),,it was a submissive position and there is nothing submissive about him..

Soooooo, even tho he was my biggest challenge to get a 'down' out of,,(because there was NO guiding him into one either!) I carried a clicker with me everywhere, treats too, if he "downed" on his own,,i whipped out that clicker and said a loud "good down!",,,treated,,,FINALLY, he got the idea that "downing" was going to get him food, (his FAVE thing) and started offering 'downs' all over the place...

Also I "use" the seasoned dogs as well as train alone,,those puppies just copy everything the older dogs do, (I see masi watching Jynx when I am going thru her 'trick' routine) sooo that may be something you could try)

And I DO find the boys especially, are kinda doofy, and a little slower mentally,,,but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take Akbar)))))


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Is he responding to hand signals but not verbal cues? I've found it's usually much easier to teach hand signals, especially if you start by luring behaviors because they're accustomed to watching your body language. 

Once he knows the hand signal, give the verbal cue FIRST, wait a beat or two, then use the hand signal. You always start with whatever they don't know and follow with what they do know. The (unfamiliar) verbal cue will become a predictor for the (familar) hand signal, and then you can start fading it out once he's starting to get it by waiting a few seconds longer before giving the hand signal. Gradually increase that time, and only follow up with the hand signal as a reminder if necessary. Give him a chance to work it out. And I always make a HUGE deal whenever they do it right with just the verbal cue - tons of happy praise and a jackpot of treats.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

He will do the positions with hand signals but not if I use verbal only. I should have clarified that, lol. When I do the hand signals to lure him in a sit or down he gets it right away but if I use verbal only he looks like he's confused. It has been a while since I had a puppy so I need to retrain myself, lol. He's an awesome dog, just seems a little, uh, sloow, if you get my drift. lol I am enrolling him in basic OB class in Decemeber so I'll see how that goes. I'm not thinking of training comp. style OB until he's a year so he has time to mentaly grow.







I just want the basics down first.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Okay, that's what I figured. Try what I suggested, saying the command then waiting a second or two and using the hand signal, then just keep waiting longer and longer before using the hand signal. He'll eventually start associating the verbal cue with the hand signal that he already knows. This DOES work!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

INTDITT !!!!


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