# Lexy skin problem (ringworm ? )



## Lexy (Aug 23, 2012)

My 8 months old girl named Lexy used to dig and sit in soil (moist) from last week she developed scaly skin under arms then it cracked and got RED ! She started scratching and biting it on the belly too ! Now i have kept her on marbled floor from last 4 days to avoid contact with soil. She scratches those spots alot..plz help guyz im worried alot 
Age = 8 months


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

Do you walk her with a harness? That can definitely irritate her armpits. The pics look like some sort of insect bite, like spiders or fire ants. What area are you in? 
It doesn't look like ringworm to me-those are perfectly round lesions. I actually had ringworm when I was 12 and I don't remember it itching.


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## Lexy (Aug 23, 2012)

CeCe said:


> Do you walk her with a harness? That can definitely irritate her armpits. The pics look like some sort of insect bite, like spiders or fire ants. What area are you in?
> It doesn't look like ringworm to me-those are perfectly round lesions. I actually had ringworm when I was 12 and I don't remember it itching.


No i do not walk her with a harness. Actually first it was just a rash then hair started to fall and became very sensitive as she had been scratching it alot and now her under skin is all red and bald


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## Lexy (Aug 23, 2012)

Somebody help me please ? :'(


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

That needs to be seen by a vet


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

It's probably a yeast infection, itching led to trauma...affects moist area's/skin folds where bacteria set up shop.

Take her off any/all sugars - yeast thrives on sugar (the skin problem is related to an internal problem)

This means NO grains or by-product of NO carbohydrate veg - i.e. beets, carrots, peas, potatoes - no legumes no natural sugars - honey, molassis lactose (yogart, keifer) whey protien

probiotics are a must away from food and lactose free no prebiotic
Raw cold pressed organic coconut oil will kill the yeasts both internally and topically as well bacteria...you will have to put some clothes on so she doesn't lick off.

Bentonite clay will help bind and cart the yeasts off in the GI tract

research berberine containing herbs - goldenseal, pau d'arco, bayberry etc. cna be used internally and externally - make a tea and sponge onto skin followed by coconut oil.

Increase stomach acids by offering real meats/bones and a nominal amout of juiced green leafy veg (antioxidants), which is primarely the onlly way to feed a yeasty condition.

Your vet will prescribe antibiotics and steroids...this WILL cause cycling of the problem and it will get worse (only after it seemingly gets better - then bam it's back and angrier then ever).

The immune system is sluggish/weak, this is why it happened in first place...she was on fire - that's why she dug holes in dirt to cool.

See this link - scroll to herbs about half way down
http://chetday.com/candida2.html


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## Lexy (Aug 23, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> It's probably a yeast infection, itching led to trauma...affects moist area's/skin folds where bacteria set up shop.
> 
> Take her off any/all sugars - yeast thrives on sugar (the skin problem is related to an internal problem)
> 
> ...


ok i got it and thanx alot for the adviz ...btw i bathed her and dried her and evenly applied an antifungal cream whih had TERBINAFINE HCL in it an after like 1 hour condition was much better ! So will this help or this method is just temporary ? Nd thanx once again for the adviz !


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

you should really get a definitive diagnosis from a vet then go from there, who knows it could be a form of mange which needs special treatment FROM a vet.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lexy said:


> ok i got it and thanx alot for the adviz ...btw i bathed her and dried her and evenly applied an antifungal cream whih had TERBINAFINE HCL in it an after like 1 hour condition was much better ! So will this help or this method is just temporary ? Nd thanx once again for the adviz !


It's only temporary if you don't address teh underlying cause which is diet and the immune system.

Real whole raw foods, grain free, carboydrate mod. to free (all dogs are differant) as in treats only.

Keep on coconut oil...you;ll have to take slow approach re: herx reaction and toxin die-off sytems overload the liver...but get on track w/o meds. will make worse.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Gatorbytes, are you licensed vet?  Fine to give out suggestions, but I would "think" you would offer those suggestions AFTER suggesting the OP seek out a vet. 

On the off chance this dog has MANGE, your diet advice/topicals are not going to take get rid of MANGE MITES.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Poor Lexy She does look pretty irritated/raw.

I would also take her to the vet. They can do a skin scrap. There's alot to consider. It can't be looked at over the internet, not this one.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

This seems to be a lot like what I took Gabe to the vet for last week. His turned out to be a bacterial skin infection, and the vet put him on antibiotics and a twice weekly shampoo, but first they had to do a skin scrape to rule out demodex and examine him with a specialized light to rule out ringworm. I do think you should go see your vet.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lexy said:


> Somebody help me please ? :'(





JakodaCD OA said:


> Gatorbytes, are you licensed vet? Fine to give out suggestions, but I would "think" you would offer those suggestions AFTER suggesting the OP seek out a vet.
> 
> On the off chance this dog has MANGE, your diet advice/topicals are not going to take get rid of MANGE MITES.


She asked for help...I gave it to her.

Well...three or four suggested seeing a vet...so I don't think I need to throw that blurb in. 
But...I know what is going to happen at the vet.
1) yeast test will not be performed in favour of a mite test that will come back inconclusive (as hard to find) and then sold on prevention/spot on med's just in case then the vet will script steroids for inflammation and abx. for "possible" secondary bacterial infection.
2) the yeast will continue to proliferate becasue of the compromised state of the immune system now further taxed due to pesticide, uneccesary abx. and steroids.
3) at that point the vet will say food allergy try our script food.
4) she will continue to itch
5) the vet will put on low dose pred. and benedryl.
6) by now change in diet/comp. immune, the bowels will start acting up
7) back to vet, tests for worms - none found - drugs anyway
8) dog will continue to scratch...vet will suggest allergy tests

Does this sound familiar? anyone?
Treat the cause, not the symptoms...the cause lies in the diet and immune system that is malfunctioning.
However if she is already on prevention (Lexy???) then it wouldn't be mange. 
If not on prevention then THAT single treatment is all that is req'd, not pred. or abx. Yeast WILL proliferate for sure...but the same advice applies whether or not mange is issue....have to boost immune, treat externally w/berberine containing herbs (abx. and soothing) and internally w/coconut oil.
Mites burrow laying egg trails, indications red linear markings
If Dem. mange then DEFINATELY, my advise applies along w/herbal dips/baths. But not around eyes or muzzle. Pits and groin.

At least I offered something then usual sing song "you should go to the vet"


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Anitsisqua said:


> This seems to be a lot like what I took Gabe to the vet for last week. His turned out to be a bacterial skin infection, and the vet put him on antibiotics and a twice weekly shampoo, but first they had to do a skin scrape to rule out demodex and examine him with a specialized light to rule out ringworm. I do think you should go see your vet.


Did they check for yeast?

Because it looks exactly like another thread wher yeast was ignored until tested by other vet and low and behold it was yeast.

Bacterial is Secondary due to scratching. It isn't going to go away. Temp. maybe but will return


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

> But...I know what is going to happen at the vet.


 
I guess you must be psychic as well


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Gatorbytes, are you licensed vet?


I've been wondering the same thing. You'd have a large amount of posts in the short time you've been a member here, but if you've ever said who you are and what your credentials are I must have missed it.  

Perhaps you can share the source of your expertise with us. There's an awful lot of medical advice being given if you're not a veterinarian.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I've been wondering the same thing. You'd have a large amount of posts in the short time you've been a member here, but if you've ever said who you are and what your credentials are I must have missed it.
> 
> Perhaps you can share the source of your expertise with us. There's an awful lot of medical advice being given if you're not a veterinarian.





JakodaCD OA said:


> Gatorbytes, are you licensed vet? Fine to give out suggestions, but I would "think" you would offer those suggestions AFTER suggesting the OP seek out a vet.


I'm sorry, this is going to sound sarcastic...but where in the forum rules did it say to post my resume.
I have read post after post after post about dosing this drug or that one and how to find said drugs w/o a scrip and a link provided. That include benedryl and aspirin, fish oil at 10x (prescription dose) label recommendations and so on with "it's perfectly safe" to sum it up.
Yet there is no question of their credentials

I don't give medical advice. I offer up things people can research and make informed decisions to learn for themselves and take their pets health into their own hands. Many people want to know (as posted numerous times) "what else can I do - please help"...I give what else


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Where do you get your information from - taking classes, attending seminars, personal experience with your own dogs, google? I think it's a fair question :shrug: Your posts go way beyond how much fish oil to give, or the safe dosage for benedryl or aspirin, which is pretty basic info that's available all over the internet. 

In this thread you're diagnosing a yeast infection:



GatorBytes said:


> *It's probably a yeast infection*, itching led to trauma...affects moist area's/skin folds where bacteria set up shop.


And then basically telling the OP that they shouldn't follow the vet's predicted treatment:



GatorBytes said:


> *Your vet will prescribe antibiotics and steroids...this WILL cause cycling of the problem and it will get worse* (only after it seemingly gets better - then bam it's back and angrier then ever).


See the problem? It sounds like you're discouraging the OP from going to the vet. And why would they need to? You've already outlined a treatment program.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lexy said:


> ok i got it and thanx alot for the adviz ...btw i bathed her and dried her and *evenly applied an antifungal cream whih had TERBINAFINE HCL in it an after like 1 hour condition was much better* ! So will this help or this method is just temporary ? Nd thanx once again for the adviz !





Cassidy's Mom said:


> Where do you get your information from - taking classes, attending seminars, personal experience with your own dogs, google? I think it's a fair question :shrug: Your posts go way beyond how much fish oil to give, or the safe dosage for benedryl or aspirin, which is pretty basic info that's available all over the internet.
> 
> In this thread you're diagnosing a yeast infection:
> 
> ...


*Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient in Terbicip Cream*

Terbinafine Hydrochloride BP 1% w/w

Uses of Terbicip Cream
Terbicip Cream (Terbinafine HCl Gel) is used for the treatment of Fungal infections of the skin including tinea pedis ("athlete's foot"), tinea corporis (ringworm of the body), and tinea cruris ("jock itch" - ringworm of the groin), tinea versicolor (sometimes called "sun fungus") and cutaneous candidiasis (yeast infections of the skin).


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Although it *might* be yeast, it's quite possibly a bacterial infection and/or mange mites.
If it's scabies, it's transmittable to humans.

To the OP - PLEASE get this dog in to the vet, have it seen and follow their instructions.

We had an allergic dog and while homeopathy is nice and fun and all, _if _it works, that's a really big IF. 

In fact, a year ago, we had another dog with demodex. Severe. Like burns. I mean raw, oozing, scabs and pus and bleeding. I had to hold her in a towel for the ride home!
Daily antibiotics, ivermectin, emu oil and silvadene (for burns) solved her issues and within a month, she had new hair growth!
We adopted her to some beloved family friends (met through a/c and rescue) and they immediately got her off the evil ivermectin! 
And boom. She was more severe than before. 
The holistic vet shook her head. Put her back in ivermectin and although she does not take it daily, she can't go off of it. 

I like the idea of holistic medicine - but in reality it doesn't solve everything and can even make animals worse.

And...to gatorbytes, you need to be really careful in advising people to _not_ go to the vet. That's just lunacy. 
Veterinarians went to school to get and keep dogs healthy.
Your vitamins and herbs and all that often costs way more than any vet visit, so to sit there and say that drug companies and vets are just out for money is ridiculous in and of itself.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> *It's probably* a yeast infection, itching led to trauma...affects moist area's/skin folds where bacteria set up shop.
> 
> Take her off any/all sugars - yeast thrives on sugar (the skin problem is related to an internal problem)
> 
> ...





msvette2u said:


> Although it *might* be yeast, it's quite possibly a bacterial infection and/or mange mites.
> *If it's scabies, it's transmittable to humans*.
> 
> To the OP - PLEASE get this dog in to the vet, have it seen and follow their instructions.
> ...


:thinking: HUH?

I never mention homeopathy here, nor do I advise not to go to vet?
I offered advice that will boost the immune system (that is with or without drugs I might add). BEcasue if you don't address the route cause the skin issue will return but worse.
Steroids are an immune suppresser. 
Antibitics kill good and bad bacteria, not yeast, so now that the good bacteria isn't there the yeast takes hold, the bad bacteria feeds off of this and proliferates. Hence the cycle.
Please stop putting words in my mouth and adjusting thing that work to your opinion.
This ain't my first rodeo


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

GatorBytes said:


> I'm sorry, this is going to sound sarcastic...but where in the forum rules did it say to post my resume.
> I have read post after post after post about dosing this drug or that one and how to find said drugs w/o a scrip and a link provided. That include benedryl and aspirin, fish oil at 10x (prescription dose) label recommendations and so on with "it's perfectly safe" to sum it up.
> Yet there is no question of their credentials
> 
> I don't give medical advice. I offer up things people can research and make informed decisions to learn for themselves and take their pets health into their own hands. Many people want to know (as posted numerous times) "what else can I do - please help"...I give what else


I have asked before, what are your credentials to be offering specific advise as you do on such a wide array illnesses? Do you have actual _experience_ that each piece of advise you offer works?

Since what you offer is alternative medicine, which in the wrong hands can be just as detrimental as vet medicine; the _responsible_ thing to do is advise to get a diagnosis from a respected vet, mainstream or holistic, then learn as much as possible. Even give links to help them learn _AFTER_ diagnosis.

It is completely and totally irresponsible to ignore the fact that you are online, not familiar with the dog and presume you can definitively diagnose a condition and give treatment directions.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

GatorBytes said:


> I'm sorry, this is going to sound sarcastic...but where in the forum rules did it say to post my resume.


Nowhere.

BUT - if you want someone to take your recommendations seriously then you really should give them details of your experience.

When people ask me about raw feeding I tell them that I've been doing it for over a decade, have switched more than 30 dogs to it (fosters and my own), have whelped 3 litters from a raw fed bitch and weaned all the puppies directly to raw and have 8 dogs currently being fed raw: 2 switched at about a year, 2 switched at 8 weeks and 4 having been weaned directly to raw and never had kibble.

I tell people this so that they can feel *comfortable *with the advice I give.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Gator, when you say "it's probably yeast" then advise a bunch of home remedies, yet do not say "go to the vet for a dx", it's the same as advising _not_ to visit the vet for a dx.
There is no way we can dx a skin infection _over the 'net_ yet your advice seems like it's an "open and shut case", that simply doing what you advise will cure. 

The most responsible thing to do, when someone comes on with a health issue wit their dog, is to advise a vet visit - which we all do - except you. 
You leave the impression that if one follows your regiment (here and in other threads) their dogs will be healthy and shine, etc. 

But if that's mites, _especially_ sarcoptic, as opposed to a "simple yeast infection on the skin" (and let me tell you now - whoever is reading - yeast infections on the skin are anything but simple!) this dog and owner are going to be weeks away from a cure if they only follow your "advice". 

In fact, that dog, and owner, and all other animals that dog comes into contact with, are going to be in a world of hurt.

I, and everyone else, now realizes you have trust issues with veterinarians, but playing a vet on the 'net isn't going to help.



> Your vet will prescribe antibiotics and steroids...this WILL cause cycling of the problem and it will get worse (only after it seemingly gets better - then bam it's back and angrier then ever).


And you don't even know what their vet will find, or prescribe, so why are you acting as if their vet is inherently an idiot and/or evil?? The fact they went to school makes them idiots/evil?


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## Sav_Tsky (Aug 21, 2012)

Our dog Sable is 7 months old and had a sort of skin rash going on. He would bite ate his belly and ears, which would make his skin red and scab over. We took him to the vet and he got and allergy shot and put on meds, plus a spray for the infected areas. He was better in a week. 

Not sure if its anywhere near the same thing.. but hope everything gets better.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Nowhere.
> 
> BUT - if you want someone to take your recommendations seriously then you really should give them details of your experience.
> 
> ...


I do.

And I have learned from your raw posts and have questions. I have seen very blunt responses about raw feeding. Your posts don't take into account illness and deficiences, fat intolorance and pancreatitis however. How fat can cause an acute attack that is extremely painful and requires hospital care and IV fluids...and is not cureable. Do you indicate that Shepherds are a high risk for this genetic disorder and that high fat diet is dangerous? It's a one size fits all?...in your exp.? If you do, do you do this_ *every*_ time you post your _opinion_?

I do (warn about fat). based on my exp.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Lauri has been a member here for 11 years. People trust her because they know who she is and what her experience level is. You've been a member here for a month. We don't know you and you've never said what your experience level is. Why should people trust you?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Gator, when you say "it's probably yeast" then advise a bunch of home remedies, yet do not say "go to the vet for a dx", it's the same as advising _not_ to visit the vet for a dx.
> There is no way we can dx a skin infection _over the 'net_ yet your advice seems like it's an "open and shut case", that simply doing what you advise will cure.
> 
> The most responsible thing to do, when someone comes on with a health issue wit their dog, is to advise a vet visit - which we all do - except you.
> ...


I asked nicely to stop twisting my words to use to your advantage. It is your assumption based on your prejudices to read it how you want to. Much like I read your matter of fact drug use. 

I don't feel the need to advise to go see a vet, People want an opinion so they are armed w/info prior to going to vet. Some cannot go for whatever reasons. Money, time, weekend. They want relief for their dog. Non toxic and soothing natural is not bad advice. Are you telling me your child gets a bee sting but doesn't have an allergic reaction....do you take to emerg too get the stinger out?

nor do I advise people to give any medications or go ask for specific from the vet. You cannot tell me that herbs are more harmful then abx. Which I barely suggest, and when I do, I tell people to search out an integrative vet....not an herbalist...a DVM. This especially when they have a serious issue. AND because despite going to the vet...their dog keeps getting sicker and sicker.

Your comments about the dem. mange and even the holistic vet couldn't fix and put back on ivermectin...that _likely_ was not a case of a stumped vet, but a protocol that required more then the owner was willing to do out of either convienience or expence or both. But that is my speculation....just like yours is.

Scabies is not contagious to humans, I would think you would know this. IF a human contracts it, it is self limiting and takes about two weeks to clear up with or without treatment. IF, then this would show up in arm folds (elbow) behind knees or between fingers....Do we put pesticide on our neck or swallow a pill to cure??? 

Now we haven't heard back from Lexy to determine if the dog is on prevention.

Oh and anti-fungal drugs don't cure in days either, sometimes not at all, because the root problem was not addressed...there are many factors and sometimes just one.

If you change a diet to natural, avoid drugs where you can, and suppliment healthy choices, treat topically for minor skin issues and do not over vaccinate....then YES...*their dogs will be healthy and shine, etc.*

But if you choose to follow a substandard, processed diet, treat "prevenatively" with drugs (old school vet and human medicine used to treat for _actual_ illness with drugs - treated prevention with nutritious food, vitamins and minerals) and abuse the body with toxic non essential vaccines (that is after core and first round are determined by titers there is immunity), then yeah, you will have a chronic dog. This doesn't stop with skin issues. 

Please stop harrassing me publically. You are not embarassing me.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't think anyone is "harrassing" you, but maybe you should read this
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/189233-advice-giving-taking-advice.html


Also as to your quote that scabies is not contagious to humans, 

Just found this
http://www.vetinfo.com/is-dog-scabies-contagious-to-humans.html

Are they "lying?"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> *Scabies is not contagious to humans, I would think you would know this. *IF a human contracts it, it is self limiting and takes about two weeks to clear up with or without treatment. IF, then this would show up in arm folds (elbow) behind knees or between fingers.
> 
> .


This is a perfect example of incorrect information that you give out as gospel. Scabies most certainly IS transferable to humans. It is NOT self limiting and has to be treated. I DO know this because it was passed on to me when I was a child by another child and I then spread it to cousins, siblings, parents, grandparents over the course of months.

Scabies is mite that burrows under your skin. These mites go to every nook and cranny of your body. They do not go away without treatment.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Are you telling me your child gets a bee sting but doesn't have an allergic reaction....do you take to emerg too get the stinger out?


Speaking of putting words/actions into my mouth/world...!??? 




> Your comments about the dem. mange and even the holistic vet couldn't fix and put back on ivermectin...that likely was not a case of a stumped vet, but a protocol that required more then the owner was willing to do out of either convienience or expence or both.


You'd be wrong.



> Scabies is not contagious to humans, I would think you would know this. IF a human contracts it, it is self limiting and takes about two weeks to clear up with or without treatment. IF, then this would show up in arm folds (elbow) behind knees or between fingers.


LOL so is it, or isn't it - contagious to humans???? You say it isn't, then say "if" a human gets it!? Yes, they can get it, and yes I know it and yes you said people can get it, so why do you insist it is not contagious to humans!? Did you know some humans have immune deficiencies, in which case, the scabies can be way worse and the body doesn't fight it off??

If you don't wish to engage in conversation with me, then you can say I'm "harassing" you. However, if you address me directly, I am not "harassing" you, you are actively engaging in discussion with me. 

BTW there is an ignore feature :thumbup:


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Lauri has been a member here for 11 years. People trust her because they know who she is and what her experience level is. You've been a member here for a month. We don't know you and you've never said what your experience level is. Why should people trust you?


I don't begrudge, for those, like yourself who would know that...it's not a private club however, not everyone here is aware of Lauri's "expertise" and why she should be trusted. Just because she comments on raw, therefore it is assumed by all she must know best?

I am not putting her down. One comment begets another. Where is the "safety" in her posts that people come across cruising the net?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

This is going no where fast. What may happen is someone comes on here looking for information for their dog, gets all this '_wonderful advice to avoid the vet_' and end up with a dead dog.

Maybe extreme....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/188262-itching-licking-lately.html#post2553339



> Well, no real need to go for another vet visit. I can tell you it is probably yeast or staph infection which run concurrent. It's just in the early visible stages.


And here is an example of telling a person to not go back to the vet and diagnosing without even seeing a picture of the dog.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> This is a perfect example of incorrect information that you give out as gospel. Scabies most certainly IS transferable to humans. It is NOT self limiting and has to be treated. I DO know this because it was passed on to me when I was a child by another child and I then spread it to cousins, siblings, parents, grandparents over the course of months.
> 
> Scabies is mite that burrows under your skin. These mites go to every nook and cranny of your body. They do not go away without treatment.


Enter Jax.

That would be the human scabies. It is not a dog to human. IF they get it, then it is self limiting and die off within a couple weeks.

I thought I got it, my dog was severally itchy, I had rash where lit. says, it went away in a week. My dogs itch went away too...no drugs


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/188262-itching-licking-lately.html#post2553339
> 
> And here is an example of telling a person to not go back to the vet and diagnosing without even seeing a picture of the dog.


This is not good - staph is a bacterial infection. 

The problem with skin - and we've seen plenty of issues in rescue - is that it's the largest organ in the body.
And if you can see a "rash" where there is thinner fur (arm pits/belly/chest) then where it's thicker, imagine the unseen rash under there!
And it's never a straightforward issue, but often an allergic reaction that turns into other things.
The problem is, from my own experience, it takes veterinarian medicine to intervene and call a halt to the underlying issue.

Unless you want your dog to be miserable during the next 3-6 mos. it takes for holistics to "cure" the issue (assuming the holistic stuff is correctly given and for the correct condition(s)) that is.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/188262-itching-licking-lately.html#post2553339
> 
> 
> 
> And here is an example of telling a person to not go back to the vet and diagnosing without even seeing a picture of the dog.


Here is absolute Proof that you follow me around and try to discredit. You are obsessed with me.

And this also is where you two have teamed up to pounce on me on OP thread...AGAIN....TOO many times.

Knock it OFF


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

WRONG is WRONG. And you do hand out wrong information like candy and then attack the person that corrects that information. You can deflect all you want back onto me or Lauri or whoever when you are questioned or called out on bad information...but that doesn't change facts. What you and your dogs had WAS NOT SCABIES. Scabies do not go away without treatment. 

Now...I"ll let the mods go back to dealing with you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> Here is absolute Proof that you follow me around and try to discredit. You are obsessed with me.
> 
> And this also is where you two have teamed up to pounce on me on OP thread...AGAIN....TOO many times.
> 
> Knock it OFF



Nooooo....that is proof that I read that, said to myself "WTH?" and remembered it because it was so outrageous. That wasn't to long after I just put you on ignore so I didn't have to read more. 

Should I copy and paste some of your random attacks on me from other threads?

As far as MsVette, I have her on ignore (which she knows) because we clash constantly. So the fact that she's responding is per coincidence that we have the same opinion for once.

But nice deflection....


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## Sav_Tsky (Aug 21, 2012)

... have you not taken your dog to the vet? May end up being something real simple to get over with the right meds... But I haven't read this whole list of comments..


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Jax is normally on ignore for me, too...but yes we agree on some things, as the mods also do.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Jax is normally on ignore for me, too...but yes we agree on some things, as the mods also do.


And we peacefully co-exist that way! :rofl:


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/188262-itching-licking-lately.html#post2553339
> 
> 
> 
> And here is an example of telling a person to not go back to the vet and diagnosing without even seeing a picture of the dog.


 
This person went to the vet and the vet suggested wiping down the area:laugh:. But didn't do a scrape for yeast. Hm. So the vet suggested what I did. Except mine would heal.

More then the vet did for this dog. Oh well, another trip and another 50 bucks in the vets pocket and that just reiterates what I said way back about Vet protocol...thanks for pointing that out! Good job

But great you have sensationalized things. Keep sticking it to me. I knew I was never on ignore - you can't help yourself


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Bottom line: if something is wrong with your dog, take them to the vet. Do * NOT* rely on internet diagnosis and advice from people you know nothing about. Writing ability and impressive vocabulary is *NOT* an indication of competency, as can be easily demonstrated.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What a waste of time. Take no responsibility, deflect any questions, justify telling someone to not go the vet while denying you tell people that...

What is sad is some of the information you give is useful...it's just lost in your ego and "my way is the only way" rants.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Castlemaid said:


> Writing ability and impressive vocabulary is *NOT* an indication of competency, as can be easily demonstrated.


I actually suspect many instances where info was pulled directly from the 'net but no references were given. 
So maybe not even writing ability but the ability to copy/paste?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I don't think anyone is "harrassing" you, but maybe you should read this
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/189233-advice-giving-taking-advice.html
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Jakoda, I did read that thread/sticky...very well written and applies to all discussion groups I would think. I also read the comments of certain members who think they are outside this realm when they are as guilty of misrepresenting.

Is harrassing too strong a word. Perhaps following, trying to discredit and pulling links to "prove" they are justfied in their commonts that have NOTHING to do with the topic and takes the thread way off in another direction. This is ongoing by two specifically. I don't do this. I Can't hide? my name comes up after a post they see it and boom they are on me. However they aren't doing this to the "well respected" posts. Even when that posts say same as me. 

How is it that I am responsible for not telling people to go to the vet. I do. I also tell them they have to take their dogs health into their own hands. Vets dose medicine, do surgeries, diagnostics. The human who is ultimately reponsible for the health of their dog. Do you presume that most people are sheep and cannot think for themselves when it is the right time to go to the vet? Or how to take simple measures at home to treat minor issues? I would take offence to that notion. 

Also I said that canine scabies is self limiting on humans.
Natural Treatment of Sarcoptic Mange (Canine Scabies) in Dogs
Sarcoptic Mange In Your Dog "Scabies"
Dog Mites & Humans | The Daily Puppy


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

GatorBytes said:


> Also I said that canine scabies is self limiting on humans.


No, you said:


GatorBytes said:


> *Scabies is not contagious to humans, I would think you would know this. *


*Contagious *means you can catch it from a dog. 
Not that it's "self limiting".



> con·ta·gious/kənˈtājəs/
> Adjective:
> (of a disease) Spread from one person or organism to another by direct or indirect contact.
> (of a person or animal) Likely to transmit a disease by contact with other people or animals.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*



Dog scabies, also called sarcoptic mange, is a contagious [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]skin condition[/COLOR][/COLOR] that can is zoonotic, which means it can be passed between dogs and people. The disease is caused by sarcoptes mites, which are related to spiders, that burrow into an affected animal or person's skin.
Sarcoptes mites transmit scabies by direct dog-to-dog contact, and the mites can survive for up to 48 hours off an infected dog. Symptoms begin showing up about a week after exposure to the mite.


Read more: Is Dog Scabies Contagious to Humans? - VetInfo

Click to expand...

 
My aussie had sarcoptic mange at one point, and the little weasel used to sleep right next to my head Yes, I became "itchy", and thought oh great I got the mites....My vet did explain to me, while it is contagious, the mites on dogs prefer dogs to humans. So no I didn't have them, but just thought I'd post that quote from vet med site.

*


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

My own child had them, got them @ pre-school.
So yes, I already know humans can get it. Sometimes they get it from other humans, as in my child's case.
We had a foster with them and while they prefer dogs to humans, they can infect humans and we can be a vector to other animals and humans. 
Not something I prefer to deal with.

The problem is, skin scrapes often miss sarcoptic mange mites. So it's often recommended to treat weekly with ivermectin until 3-4 weeks have passed, despite a negative skin scrape, unless the rash/itching/problem can be definitively diagnosed as something else.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Canine mites are self limiting on humans. They do not continue they're cycle of life - burrow, lay eggs, hatch, surface, mate, burrow - life on a dog.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> My own child had them, got them @ pre-school.
> So yes, I already know humans can get it. Sometimes they get it from other humans, as in my child's case.
> We had a foster with them and while they prefer dogs to humans, they can infect humans and we can be a vector to other animals and humans.
> Not something I prefer to deal with.
> ...


Parasitic Mites of Humans | University of Kentucky Entomology

Collage of Agriculture

The sarcoptic itch mites, _Sarcoptes scabei_, infest the skin of a variety of animals including humans. _The types of Sarcoptes inhabiting the skin of mammals are all considered forms of Sarcoptes scabei and can exchange hosts to some degree._ (For example, *Canine scabies can be temporarily* transferred from dogs to humans, causing itching and lesions on the waist, chest and forearms.)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

NO, I SAID....




GatorBytes said:


> *I asked nicely to stop twisting my words to use to your advantage. *It is your assumption based on your prejudices to read it how you want to. Much like I read your matter of fact drug use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





msvette2u said:


> No, you said:
> 
> Originally Posted by *GatorBytes*
> _*Scabies is not contagious to humans, I would think you would know this. *_
> ...


Thanks for the lesson from the dictionary. Did you write that yourself or cut and paste?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

GatorBytes said:


> Your posts don't take into account illness and deficiences, fat intolorance and pancreatitis however.


Actually, when someone asked about starting their dog on a raw diet I DO ask them if the dog is healthy. Sometimes I ask via the board, sometimes I do it via PM.



> Do you indicate that Shepherds are a high risk for this genetic disorder and that high fat diet is dangerous?


No, I do not because I have yet to see PROOF of this. I have had 7 German Shepherds on raw and have never seen any sign of pancreatitis.

I also challenge people when they claim that GSDs have "sensitive stomachs". Again - raised 7 of them and never had a problem.

Now while 7 isn't a HUGE number it is enough of a sampling (IMHO) that I should have encountered SOME type of problem if it's all the common.




> It's a one size fits all?...in your exp.? If you do, do you do this_ *every*_ time you post your _opinion_?


If it's a healthy adult dog then yes, it's one size fits all (with the exception of amounts).

Inside (where it counts as far as diet is concerned) a GSD is a Lab is a Shih Tzu is a Chihuahua is a Poodle is a Saint Bernard.

I am feeding a GSD, a Cocker, a Corgi mix and 5 Chinese Cresteds all the same THINGS in their diet. Different amounts but the same items.

And when people ask about starting a raw diet I DO give them some info on my experience.

I wouldn't take advice from someone without if they are qualified to speak on the subject. Why should I expect someone else to do that with me?

And I have a link to my raw feeding website right in my signature line.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

*Acknowledgments*
This work was supported by Australian National Health and Medical Research Council grants 283300 and 320867 and the Channel 7 Children's Research Foundation of South Australia.


Problems in Diagnosing Scabies, a Global Disease in Human and Animal Populations

*Host Specificity*

*Mite populations are primarily host specific,* with little evidence of interbreeding between strains. *Cross-infection studies describe unsuccessful experimental attempts to transfer scabies mites from dogs to mice, pigs, cattle, goats, and sheep (**10**). This is supported by molecular genotyping studies that reveal genetically distinct dog and human host-associated mite* populations in Australian indigenous communities where scabies is endemic (106, 108). Occasional cases of *human scabies have been reported following exposure to animal scabies, but these infestations are generally self-limiting, with no evidence of long-term reproduction occurring on the nonnormal host* (15).


*Furthermore, mass community treatment in communities of endemicity creates an environment for emerging drug tolerance or resistance*, and new approaches to control are needed. *Published in vitro acaricide efficacy studies indicate that S. scabiei mites in northern Australia are becoming increasingly tolerant to 5% permethrin (**111**), and clinical and in vitro ivermectin resistance in cases of scabies has recently been documented* (31). Resistance should also be considered in regions of nonendemicity when patients experience persistent symptoms for up to several weeks after curative treatment. *Promising new acaricides include a number of essential oils in which terpenoids are most likely the primary active components* (110). Encouraging in vitro and field results have been obtained for 5% tea tree oil extracted from the tree _Melaleuca alternifolia_ (110, 111), 20% lippia oil extracted from _Lippia multiflora_ Moldenke (86), *a paste made from neem (Azadirachta indica ADR) and turmeric* (_Curcuma longa_) (24), camphor oil (_Eucalyptus globulus_) (83), *and a commercially available repellent containing coconut and jojoba oil* (55)


Using Neem Oil For Dogs

In case you don't want to dose your dog with pesticide


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I must say this now getting borderline ridiculous, can we get back ON topic?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the OP's dog looks like it has a staph infection from scratching itself. It may have been itchy from some fungus in the soil - and there are several. This month's DOGS NATURALLY (Sept / Oct), which I received in my mail box today, has a feature article titled The Fungus Among Us written by Vet Dr Julie Mayer. It even shows a dog digging in beach sand to start the article off. She says blastomycosis , coccidiomycosis, and histoplasmosis are fungal organisms that lived in the sold . These different species exist in different types of soil in different parts of the country and can cause Gilchrist's disease, Cave disease, and Valley Fever . 

the remainder of the comprehensive 3 page article provides treatment suggestions - 

As always you have to address the problem from outside and inside . 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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