# Treats vs Stools?



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Clover was sent home with a box of milkbones and I wont lie...he loves them! (and the kids love giving them to him) but I have taken him down to only 2-3 a day now as special rewards for going into his crate by himself. I have used BBQchicken breast (no sauce just the smoky flavor) for training and he REALLY loves it...and he has gotten the occassional scrap of steak or hamburger from the grill and bites of cheese. Mind you, he isnt eating snacks all day, these are really occassional goodies. (like 2-3 milkbones a day and maybe one special treat of cheese or meat if he is in the right place at the right time for his luck!)

Anyhow, He has poop that is pretty soft...sometimes as soft as oatmeal or grits sometimes. (sorry its breakfast time and thats the consistency I can relate it to) I am thinking maybe its related to his snacks, but dont know which one. I want to be able to reward him with snacks but also dont want them tearing his stomach up.

Any ideas of what could be causing the looser stools ot what can be fed that wont cause them to be loose?

TIA!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

How big are the pieces of snacks you are using to reward? A good reward size would be the size of a green pea.... yes, that tiny! Remember that Clover is still a teeny guy so treats will go a LONG way. Cut them down to itsy bitsy pieces so he will have the taste without the bulk. Break the Milkbone pieces up so the kids already have it pre-sized for them.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

wow! peasized? really? LOL I often see him hork something down so fast now I wonder if he even knew what he ate! So like pea sized hunks of meat for training? the milk bones are the small breed or puppy sized ones so they arent massive, but considerably bigger than a pea.









Thank you for your help! Do you have any suggestions for other treats?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Commercial dog treats are just commercial dog treats.







They are more designed to please people with the looks than dogs. Training treats should be tiny so your pup/dog can have a lot without filling up and also without getting fat. If your pup does something SUPER good during training, you can "jackpot" him by giving several pieces at once. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1118850&page=1#Post1118850
Here is a post with a bunch of favorite high value training treats. I have used sausage, deli meats, hot dogs (raw and sauteed in garlic), liver treats I made, cooked chicken, Natural Balance rolls (these are great), kibble or commercial treats (low value), fried bacon, fruits, kohlrabi (no kidding, my dog will kill for that), basically anything that won't kill them goes. The very good stuff should be used in SMALL quantities to reward extremely difficult things. It's a sliding scale effect. Sitting in the quiet living room = piece of Milkbone. Sitting outside with kids running around playing ball and a dog barking = piece of bacon.

With a puppy, it might actually be better to use his meals as training treats. They are small with small stomachs and a lot of training can be done in one meal.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you so much!! He eats okish to me but in the last few days he looks like his sides are sucked in when looking down on him, so I was thinking maybe he wasnt eating enough...and then with the looser stools I was just trying to be sure he got to keep as much of his calories as possible. 

Thank you again! I will look over that link too. He *loves* raw hotdog cut in slices. I forgot I used that one day. I am getting him some more chewies from Jeffers this week too. (bones and such dont count as rewards do they?)


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

What are you feeding Clover for his normal diet?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't feed my dog anything that's
made in China. you can find good treats (natural)
that are made here or somewhere other than China.
there's to many recalls on things made in China.

you could make some treats with no salt or sugar
in them. honey or cinamin makes things tasty.

i use different things for treats when training
or when i'm just giving him a treat for no reason.

boiled boneless and skinless chicken breast. <
raw ground beef. <
kibble. <
hot dogs (all beef). i cut a little
peice of the hot. i take that peice
and cut it in half. i've been told
that cutting the peice of hot dog
in half diminishes some chance of choking. <

take your pup to the Vet. take a stool sample
with you when you go.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you Doggiedad. He has his third appointment (second since I got him) with the vet on the 26th for a chip, shots, and fecal.









Diana I am scared to even answer that question. I have been searching through here already to see if my food will be criticized or not. I am only feeding what I grew up feeding our GSDs and Rottweilers and my APBT and that is Diamond.

He eats Diamond Lamb and Rice Large Breed Puppy with DHA. **ducks for flying shoes and rawhide bones**


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I think a lot of people here don't even bother with puppy food for their GSD pups. If you think the food is contributing or you want to find something of higher quality, check out the Diet and Nutrition sections.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

I always heard good things about Diamond so I just went with what I knew. I took him off the purina puppy chow when I got him. The RAW diet seems interesting but way out of my price range!!! I dont think I should change his food again so soon after switching once, but maybe I will add more stuff in later when he finishes this bag.

Thank you.







I dont think the food is the issue with the loose stools since in my experience, Diamond gives firmer poops. Plus when I got him his stool was a lot runnier on the purina...its not nearly as bad as it was.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

OK! I AM CHANGING HIS FOOD! HOLY [heck]! What was my family thinking?????

Ingredients in what he *is* eating:
*Potassium Iodide 

*Thiamine Mononitrate 

*Manganese Proteinate 
A very bioavailable source of the essential mineral, manganese. 

*Manganous Oxide

*Ascorbic Acid 
Ascorbic acid is a white, crystalline, water-soluble vitamin, occurring naturally in citrus fruits, green vegetables, etc.
Ascorbic acid is a form of vitamin C, which is an antioxidant good for normal metabolism. Natura also uses the sodium ascorbate form of vitamin C for a preservative.

*Vitamin A Supplement 

*Biotin 
Biotin is a water-soluble, nitrogen-containing B-vitamin essential for growth and well-being in animals.
Biotin is found in many different foods, but eggs provide a very rich source. Deficiencies are not generally a problem; however, the treatment of dogs and cats with antibiotics that decrease the bacterial population of the large intestine can cause an increase in the dietary requirement of biotin.

*Calcium Pantothenate 
Calcium pantothenate is a B vitamin known as Vitamin B5. It is water-soluble, absorbed from the intestine, and excesses are excreted in the urine. The body has a limited ability to store the vitamin.
Calcium pantothenate is converted in the body to a substance called â??coenzymeâ?� an important catalyst in the breakdown of fats, carbohydrates and protein for energy. It also functions in the production of fats, cholesterol, bile, vitamin D, red blood cells, and some hormones and neurotransmitters. This vitamin prevents graying of hair in some animals. Natura includes this important vitamin in our entire line of dog and cat foods.

*Manganese Sulfate 

*Sodium Selenite 
Sodium selenite is an essential trace mineral and a major antioxidant nutrient. Sodium selenite is involved with iodine metabolism, pancreatic function, DNA repair, immunity.

*Pyridoxine Hydrochloride 

*Vitamin B12 Supplement 
*Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 

*Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) is a water-soluble vitamin also known as riboflavin. It is essential for the normal release of energy from carbohydrate, protein and fat in food.

*Vitamin B2 is important for normal growth and development, the production of and regulation of certain hormones, and formation of red blood cells. All Natura cat and dog foods include this important nutrient.

*Vitamin D3 Supplement 

*Folic Acid 
Folic acid is a Vitamin of the B complex that is water-soluble and essential in animal metabolism.
Folic acid is absorbed from the small intestine and small amounts are stored in the liver and other tissues. Excess is excreted in the urine. Its main function is to maintain the cells' genetic code and regulate cell division. It is essential for the normal growth and maintenance of all cells. Like several of the other B vitamins, folic acid is synthesized by the bacteria of the large intestine in dogs and cats.

*Chicken By-product Meal 
Chicken by-product meal consists of the dry, ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines - exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

*Whole Grain Ground Corn 

*Wheat Flour 

*Chicken Fat 
(naturally preserved with mixed Tocopherols) Chicken fat is obtained from the tissues of chickens in the commercial process of rendering or extracting. 
Chicken fat is the highest of all animal sources in linoleic acid (over 23%), an important element for skin and coat health. Because Natura uses such high-quality chicken, this is a high-quality source of fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a Natural Source of Vitamin E).

*Beet Pulp 
Beet pulp is the residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned, freed from crowns, leaves, and sand, and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar.

*Beet pulp is added to some pet foods to act as a fibrous stool hardener. 

*Egg Product 
Egg Product is product obtained from egg graders, egg breakers and/or hatchery operations that is dehydrated, handled as liquid, or frozen. These shall be labeled as per USDA regulations governing eggs and egg products. 
This product shall be free of shells or other non-egg materials except in such amounts which might occur unavoidably in good processing practices, and contain a maximum ash content of 6% on a dry matter basis.

*Flaxseed 
Flaxseed is the whole seed of the flax plant.
Flaxseed is a good source of both soluble and insoluble fiber. Together these fibers aid in digestion and help to maintain good stool consistency. Flaxseed is also an excellent source of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids (such as alpha-linolenic acid). These fatty acids help produce the soft, luxuriant coat on your pet for which Natura is known.

*Natural Chicken Flavor 
Natural Flavors are flavor ingredients that do not contain synthetic or artificial components.

*Salmon Oil 
Salmon Oil is the oil extracted from cannery refuse of salmon.

*Fish Meal 
Fish meal is the clean, rendered (cooked down), dried ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish or fish cuttings, either or both, with or without the extraction of part of the oil.
Fish meal is made from unspecified types of fish. Natura does not use non-specific fish or fish meals in our products, and always provides the species for full transparency.

*Potassium Chloride 
A chemical compound, KCl, a colorless or white, cubic, crystalline compound that closely resembles common salt (sodium chloride). It is soluble in water, alcohol, and alkalies. Potassium plays various roles in metabolism and body functions. It assists in the regulation of the acid-base balance and water balance in the blood and the body tissue. It assists in protein synthesis from amino acids and in carbohydrate metabolism.

*Salt 
Salt is a natural mineral, necessary for life and good health.
Salt provides several essential nutrients, such as sodium and chloride, as well as important trace minerals. The average sodium level in our food and treats is currently 0.9 g/Mcal, which is considered low by industry standards, but still supplies the nutrients your petâ??s body requires. 

*Choline Chloride 
Choline chloride is a vitamin "like" essential nutrient. 
It is necessary to nerve function and fat metabolism and can be manufactured in the body but not at a sufficient rate to meet health requirements.

*Vitamin E Supplement 

*Iron Proteinate 
A very bio-available source of the essential mineral, iron. 

*Zinc Proteinate 
A very bioavailable source of the essential mineral, zinc.

*Copper Proteinate 
A very bioavailable source of the essential mineral, copper. 

*Ferrous Sulfate 
*Zinc Sulfate 
*Copper Sulfate 
************************

And what I think I will be changing him to ASAP:

*Beef 
Beef is the clean flesh derived from slaughtered cows and is limited to that part of the striate muscle which is skeletal or that which is found in the tongue, in the diaphragm, in the heart, or in the esophagus; with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve, and blood vessels which normally accompany the flesh.
Natura uses only high-quality beef, not beef by-products found in some other products.

*Lamb Meal 
Lamb meal is the dry rendered (cooked down) product from lamb tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.



*Barley 
Barley is a major food and animal feed crop, a member of the grass family Poaceae. Ground barley is the entire barley kernel, ground or chopped.
Ground Barley is a good quality source of carbohydrates. Because Natura uses the entire barley kernel, it contributes additional protein, barley oil, bran, vitamins and minerals to the diet.

*Brown Rice 
The whole rice kernel containing the nutrient-rich bran with only the rice hull removed. 
Brown Rice is rich in numerous nutrients like B-vitamins, magnesium, and fatty acids. 

*Potatoes 
Potatoes are whole tubers of the plant.
Natura uses only whole, fresh potatoes. They are not pre-processed, so they retain all of their important nutrients. Potatoes provide B vitamins, carbohydrates, zinc, vitamin C, copper, iron, magnesium, niacin and potassium. Natura uses only fresh, whole fruits and vegetables, just like you would buy at the grocery store. 

*Sunflower Oil 
(naturally preserved with mixed Tocopherols) Sunflower oil is obtained by extracting oil from sunflower seeds.
Natura uses sunflower oil to provide the essential fatty acid, linoleic acid, which is important for good skin and coat health.

*Rice 
Rice, unless listed as brown rice, is the de-hulled rice kernel, without the bran -- known as white rice.



*Lamb 
Lamb consists of lamb striated muscle tissue.
Natura uses only high-quality lamb meat, not the lamb by-products found in some other products.

*Buffalo 
The American Bison is known to most Americans as simply "Buffalo." The American Buffalo is a massive animal that weighs from 800 to 2,000 pounds and stands nearly six feet high at the shoulder. A large head, high hump on the shoulders and dark brown shaggy hair characterize the buffalo. Bison are part of the family Bovidae, to which cattle and goats belong.
Buffalo meat is more in demand as increasingly health-conscious people are seeking a lean red meat.

*Venison 
Venison is a very lean, low fat source of protein. It is very digestible and highly palatable, with a very distinctive flavor.
Natura uses this expensive meat as an alternative to chicken or lamb.

*Beef Cartilage 
This is the cartilage of beef.

*Chondroitin was first extracted and purified in the 1960s. It is currently manufactured from natural sources such as beef cartilage or by synthetic means.

*Flaxseed 
Flaxseed is the whole seed of the flax plant.
Flaxseed is a good source of both soluble and insoluble fiber. Together these fibers aid in digestion and help to maintain good stool consistency. Flaxseed is also an excellent source of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids (such as alpha-linolenic acid). These fatty acids help produce the soft, luxuriant coat on your pet for which Natura is known.

*Natural Flavors 
Natural flavors are flavor ingredients that do not contain synthetic or artificial components.
In the Natura products that include "natural flavor" in the formula, the exact composition is proprietary. However, it is always made from high quality all natural ingredients, consistent with Natura's nutritional philosophy.

*Apples 
A member of the rose family, the apple has a compartmented core and is thus classified as a pome fruit. 
Apples are an excellent source of dietary fiber. About 81% of the fiber is soluble; most of it is of a type called pectin. Apples provide both soluble and insoluble fiber, some vitamin C and beta carotene, and potassium and boron. Natura uses this nutritious fruit in its whole form to obtain all of its wholesome nutrients.

*Carrots 
Carrots are the roots of the carrot plant, and a member of the parsley family.
Innova dog and cat foods contain whole fresh carrots.

*Herring Oil 
(naturally preserved with mixed Tocopherols) Herring oil is the oil extracted from whole herring.
Herring oil provides a rich source of Omega 3 fatty acids. Because the herring that Natura uses is of such high quality, the herring oil helps produce healthy skin and lustrous coats.

*Pumpkin 
Pumpkin is a rich source of alpha-carotene and beta-carotene, fiber, vitamins C and E, potassium, magnesium, and pantothenic acid. 

*Tomatoes 
Tomatoes are the edible berry of the tomato plant of the nightshade family.



*Potassium Chloride 
A chemical compound, KCl, a colorless or white, cubic, crystalline compound that closely resembles common salt (sodium chloride). It is soluble in water, alcohol, and alkalies. 
Potassium plays various roles in metabolism and body functions. It assists in the regulation of the acid-base balance and water balance in the blood and the body tissue. It assists in protein synthesis from amino acids and in carbohydrate metabolism.

*Sea Salt 
Sea salt is used in Natura's food to provide the essential nutrients sodium and chloride. 
A source of sodium like sea salt is vitally essential to heart and kidney health. Chloride is very important for the nervous system to function properly. Alternative sources for sodium were explored by Natura nutritionists, but were rejected since a natural source like sea salt was preferred. In addition, other good sources of sodium like raw kelp were not used as they were found to have comparatively low levels of sodium compared to sea salt. Natura never used excessive levels of sodium to increase our food's palatability, but relies on the inherent wholesomeness of our ingredients to make foods dogs and cats love to eat.

*Cottage Cheese 
Cottage cheese is the result of separating milk or cream into curds and whey. The curds are drained and pressed to form the soft, white, spoonable cheese.
Cottage cheese is an excellent source of calcium, phosphorus, protein and vitamins. Natura uses high-quality cottage cheese, straight from its retail container. The cottage cheese has only trace amounts of lactose and because of its limited inclusion in the formula, the ultimate amount of lactose in the finished product is insignificant and would not be in sufficient supply to cause an intolerance problem.

*Alfalfa Sprouts 
Alfalfa sprouts are a member of the legume family.
Alfalfa sprouts are an excellent source of key nutrients, including vitamin C, iron, magnesium and manganese. Natura uses fresh, high-quality alfalfa sprouts to add these important nutrients to our foods.

*Dried Chicory Root 
Dried Chicory Root is the dried, non-roasted root Cichorium intybus L., used as a source of inulin, as soluble, fermentable fiber. It shall contain no less than 50% inulin and no more than 13% moisture. Chicory Root is a thick-rooted blue-flowered European perennial composite herb widely grown for its roots and as a salad plant.
Commonly known as a soluble fiber, the inulin derived from the Chicory Root is a fructooligosaccharide added to help maintain digestive tract health and function.

*Taurine 

*Direct-Fed Microbials 
This is the regulatory term given to microorganism cultures added to food.
Direct-fed microbials are living microbes that can be found in a healthy digestive tract. As cooking would kill these microbes, Natura adds them to the outside of the kibble after the dry food has been gently cooked. Since the entire contents of our canned foods must be cooked as part of the canning process, we are unable to add viable microorganisms to our canned products. 

*Lecithin 
Lecithin is a specific phospholipid and the principal constituent of crude phosphatides derived from oil-bearing seeds.
Lecithin is a good source of choline, essential for normal fatty acid transport within cells. It is obtained chiefly from soybeans, corn and egg yolk. 

*Rosemary Extract 
Rosemary is an evergreen shrub of Rosemarinus Officinalis.

*Vitamins/Minerals


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

We are going with Evo Red Meat small bites for now and moving into large bites when he hits puppy stage.

What about DHA and ARA? Would it be ok to get a can of baby formula (powdered) to add to his food for now?


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

well CRAP! looks like the reviews on here for that is crap too!









back to the drawing board,

(LOL at myself for having a one person conversation on here)


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i thinking don't wait 3 weeks to go to the Vet
since his stools are soft now. 



> Originally Posted By: georgiapeachGSDThank you Doggiedad. He has his third appointment (second since I got him) with the vet on the 26th for a chip, shots, and fecal. :


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

If it was water blasting I would be more concerned, it usually starts out firm, and ends on a squishy note. (wow, I am so poetic) He just went potty outside a few minutes ago and it was mostly firm after only 1 milkbone last night before bed. I will call the vet anyhow tomorrow.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

"water blasting", that's funny and descript. my dog went
through a soft stool period. i've always fed him preminum
kibble and can. he also gets some cooked and raw food.

it could be purebreditis.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Raw diets are way cheaper than you think.







I figure we pay less to do a raw diet than to do a super-premium kibble. If we had a standalone freezer, we would be paying half of what we do now; I just don't have the room to buy bulk. Do a little research and you'll be shocked how inexpensive raw can be.

I don't think you need to go to the vet now... it does not sound like diarrhea, just soft stool. But you be the judge- if your pup starts acting "funny," scoot him in!


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

honestly raw also scares me to death! I just dont have the confidence to do it. So expensive premium kibble it is! *sigh*

you guys have been very helpful! Now if I can just find the right food. Even my husband is on board...and that rarely happens! LOL!


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: georgiapeachGSDwell CRAP! looks like the reviews on here for that is crap too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


EVO is a very fine grain free food, but is a NO NO for a growing gsd (as are most of the grainless foods other than Orijen Puppy Large) id say most people would put it near the top in terms of quality and it would be a terrific choice once he is at least a year+ old.

if you like the idea of a grain free food and Orijen Puppy Large is available you could try that. most that i know on this board that have tried it have been extremely happy with it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

As Derek said, Evo is for adult dogs only. Orijen is excellent, probably the highest quality kibble you can buy, and I'm very happy with it for both my dogs. Halo was on the Large Breed Puppy for about a year, now she's on the Adult, and Keefer is on the Fish. 

And for training treats, I often use pieces even smaller than a pea! But you can definitely use kibble as some or all of his training, just measure out a portion of his daily allotment so you don't overfeed him. There may be some medical issues contributing to his soft stool (giardia is VERY common), in which case changing his diet won't help, so I'd have that checked out too. 

The only time I use larger treats is for going in the crate at night and into the garage pen when we leave. Even then, they get one biscuit and I use the puppy sized ones, or comparable.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Orijen is great but very expensive and hard to find for some people. Some gsds don't high fat content well and get those soft at the end poops. He may also have parasites or giardia so I would wait until he has a stool sample checked before jumping to conclusions about what's causing the poop problems. I do agree that the food he's on now is not a good choice. 

Here is a great article to help you get started on choosing a food (and treats!): http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/8_7/features/15728-1.html


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## LadyHawk (Jan 19, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: georgiapeachGSDwow! peasized? really? LOL I often see him hork something down so fast now I wonder if he even knew what he ate! So like pea sized hunks of meat for training? the milk bones are the small breed or puppy sized ones so they arent massive, but considerably bigger than a pea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We make pupscicles- 
Low fat chix broth and cut carrots, cut green beans in a tiny amt of broth- freeze and keep them in a zippie. 
or Take canned (NOT SPICED ) pumpkin and dole out 1/4 tsp dollops on a cookie sheet..... freeze on waxed paper and keep in a zippie......


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## Shawneeshep (Dec 26, 2004)

reading all this takes me back to when my almost-4 year old was brought home--her breeder had her on the food yours was one, which I soon gradually (always go gradual, blend the new with the old until finally all new) got her off......but her stools were ploppy from Day One. It was a loooong trial and error of what worked, (multiple stool samples okay for the usual suspects)......she ended up doing best on Eagle Pack....BUT to this day, she gets 3 additives: Prozyme, a liquid by Pet Authority, Digestive Supplement with acidophilus, antioxidants, and more. It's "live" and needs to be in refrig. Adding that helped. But problem still was on/off, and saw at a vet's office Eagle Pack's Holistic Solution, a powder of full range probiotics also needs refrig--that was the miracle worker. I am extremely careful with feedings......her treats are several pieces of her kibble. I also feed her 3 feedings daily, that also helped her. IF she has any soft stools, they are always/only in evening, and rarely more than a tiny bit soft.
But it was quite a process to get here, so hope you find something that works.

Good luck


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you so much for all the help guys! I will hold off on EVO until he is at least a year. I met a guy with a big beautiful long haired GSD at petsmart today who swears by the Nutro Ultra that he used, and I read up on Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice Puppy (which I like the looks of). Orijen is VERY hard to find here. Its only in about 25 stores state-wide that I found on their website. I would hate to not be able to find his food.

Thanks for the pupsicle recipe LadyHawk! I will be sure to use it this summer for sure!

Any feelings on the Blue Buffalo or this Nutro Ultra?


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

I would Choose Blue Buffalo before Nutro.


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you GSDSunshine! I have had to make a whole food thread in the nutrition area bc I have gotten myself into a frenzy!


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## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Happy to report that we have HARD STOOLS!!! YAY!!!!!

Good GAWD do they stink up the place, but they are firm!!! He only gets wellness bones for processed snacks now, and lots and LOTS of yummy snacks from the meat department! He loves ox tail cuts, beef ribs, pork ribs, and a porterhouse that I got on sale since it was almost too old. (thanks Kroger dude, he loved his 5.00 used to be 30.00 steak!) He is already filling out more and looking better!!! Thanks for all the help everyone!!


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