# Do I tell my homeowner's insurance company about our new pup?



## magster33 (Jun 27, 2014)

Hi all!

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place... I'm a newbie (AND a new puppy owner), still learning! 

Question is... do we need to report to our homeowner's insurance company that we got a German Shepherd pup? We've been with the same company for several years, and we're very happy with them, but I was recently informed that this company has a "ban" on GSD's... 

I'm getting so many different opinions from everyone I know (some say, keep it to yourself, after all, we didn't lie on the application because we didn't have any pets at the time... others say, that withholding this information could really bite us in the butt later)... 

Figured I should turn to other GSD owners for advice! Any experience with this? Or recommendations regarding insurance companies (in case we get dropped)?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If the company has a ban on GSDs I would find another company first then ask them. State Farm and Travelers do not have bans AFAIK.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Depends on what their rules are. Allstate in my state will continue to honor the policy until the end of that term and then not renew. I wouldn't lie about it because if someone ever sues you it's not worth losing your house over if the insurance refuses the claim. I would find another insurance company. State Farm doesn't have any breed restrictions.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

It could really bite you in the butt later if something happened. If your company has a ban, begin search now for a new ins company.

We have insurance with Travelers with no problem about having a GSD.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I had used allstate "forever" at one point, they asked if I had dogs and what breed, I had 4 german shepherds,,they actually told me to get rid of my dogs..HA, you've got to be kidding me??

I switched, allstate continued to bug me to come back to 'them', Everytime they called I would ask, 'is gsd's still on your ban list?",,well 'yeah',,well STOP CALLING ME ...

I suggest you switch,


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Did a quick search and found this, Boxers are on the list???
Homeowners Insurance


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Did a quick search and found this, Boxers are on the list???
> Homeowners Insurance


Different companies have different lists.

Regardless, read your policy, nothing else matters. It has to be listed in writing in your policy documents.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

My understanding is that Amica does not ban any breeds.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I've had State Farm forever and didn't even know there were "lists" until reading this website. My agent knows I have a GSD, she's been in the agent's office and nothing was ever said to me.

I would call your insurance agent, if there is a ban. you'll probably have to switch companies.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My understanding is.....it is only significant to report a specific breed of dog when applying for insurance...as the application should ask such questions.

SuperG


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> If the company has a ban on GSDs I would find another company first then ask them. State Farm and Travelers do not have bans AFAIK.


Farmers is OK too.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Did a quick search and found this, Boxers are on the list???
> Homeowners Insurance


I want to say not only boxers but all state also verbally told me Labs and St Bernard's. I actually moved the phone away from my face and stared at like it was an alien, I then asked if golden retrievers were on there to


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## Mister C (Jan 14, 2014)

I look at it this way. Insurance companies are strongly motivated to deny a claim, particularly a large claim, and will search for reasons to do so. Don't give them that reason by lying or hiding the issue or you could lose your house. 

Personally, I'd switch insurance companies.


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

here is what I KNOW from first hand. I did call my insurance company to find out after I got Roxy and yes indeed german shepherds were on their "list"....I went through MY paperwork and there was NOTHING stating anything about a "list". Long story short what they did was give me a month to find other insurance before they said they would "have to" report that I volunteered information to them. Which we found through a local company and the rates are actually cheaper so no biggie. HERE is what can happen PER the old insurance company. Had we had ANY kind of claim and they found out we had a dog on the "list" ALL claims could be denied. I could look at this as yeah if we had a fire how could they find out we had a shepherd...well stranger things have happened and I wasn't willing to take that chance. 
You are better off just to right now find alternative insurance IF you find out yours does have the "list".


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

lyssa62 said:


> HERE is what can happen PER the old insurance company. Had we had ANY kind of claim and they found out we had a dog on the "list" ALL claims could be denied. I could look at this as yeah if we had a fire how could they find out we had a shepherd...well stranger things have happened and I wasn't willing to take that chance.
> You are better off just to right now find alternative insurance IF you find out yours does have the "list".


I do not believe the insurance company could have denied any claims in your situation unless language in the contract required you to report the acquisition of the dog.

If at time of application you did not own the GSD and there was no language clearly stating that the procurement of a GSD would nullify the insurance then the insurance would be completely valid. Underwriting guidelines such as certain breeds of dogs are only applicable at the time of application. If you owned a GSD at time of application and falsified this fact...then yes, they could deny any and all claims due to making a fraudulent application.

There might be a companies which have language in their contract pertaining to the future acquirement of a GSD or other breed which would need to be reported and potentially cause a change to one's homeowner's insurance premium.

Bottom line....read your contract and if you truly trust your insurance broker...ask them.

SuperG


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

My insurance company said that they did not care unless the dogs had a bite history -- that was when they wanted them listed.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Pay attention to state laws as well. In PA, an insurance company can not deny you coverage based on breed. They can jack your prices. But they cannot deny you. Thank You Governor Rendall!


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks JAX08
Didn't know that.


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## andrea04 (Feb 2, 2014)

We have State Farm they have no ban on breeds try them


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## taytay (May 13, 2014)

I will also vouch for State Farm. I just had a meeting with my agent last week and he said there is no problems when I talked to him about the GSD puppy we are getting in a few weeks.


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## SoCal Rebell (Jun 3, 2009)

Here in California I've had the same home for 18 years and 3 different GSDs, I use Allstate when I bought the place I told them I had a GSD and they said GSDs were OK but Pitbulls and Rottweilers they wouldn't cover.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I called my insurance company prior to bringing my girl home. My agent said the GSD was fine, but they did have policies against providing coverage for certain breeds or mixes.

We had State Farm for awhile when we moved to a different region of the country and our company couldn't cover us, and I wouldn't have hesitated to go back to them if the GSD had been an issue.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I too have Allstate and they have no problem with my German Shepherds.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I know Nationwide instituted a policy of covering "banned" type breeds if they had a CGC....

I have Erie, they give you one "free" claim on ANY BREED of dog - if the dog has a second claim - no insurance unless dog is gone....a friend who is a vet has had to euthanize dogs due to insurance claims as well in PA....

The only thing Erie ever spooked at is when I was walking a young tiger on a leash and she pushed a roll of fencing into my brand new car and caved in the door.....they did question me on that one!!! Paid the claim as it was not "my" tiger at "my house"....they would not have covered my home if I did have a tiger.... 

Lee


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

SoCal Rebell said:


> Here in California I've had the same home for 18 years and 3 different GSDs, I use Allstate when I bought the place I told them I had a GSD and they said GSDs were OK but Pitbulls and Rottweilers they wouldn't cover.


My insurance company nixes Rotts, pits and pit mixes, Akitas, Chows, and wolf hybrids. I think that's it.

Related question, do breed restrictions by insurance companies bother anyone? I have friends who are pit fans who hate that insurance companies can do this; I am less bothered because I figure some team of actuaries somewhere had data showing that Dogs A, B, and C cost the company significantly more in claims than other dogs. I don't like it, but it obviously didn't bother me enough that I took my business elsewhere.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Not attacking you. It didn't bother you because your breed is not on the list so you're not affected. Later on, if your breed IS on the list people with other breeds will say the same thing. We only care when it has to do with us.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

lalachka said:


> Not attacking you. It didn't bother you because your breed is not on the list so you're not affected. Later on, if your breed IS on the list people with other breeds will say the same thing. We only care when it has to do with us.


I don't think you're attacking!

It's true that people in general care more when we're directly affected. But at the risk of sounding like I doth protest too much: I really wouldn't have been up in arms if the GSD had been on "the list" for one company. I knew another would be fine, and given how far in we were at that point, it would have been a simple matter of asking my husband what needed to happen to switch companies and taking that on as a household action item.

I tend to be pretty matter of fact about this stuff; I'm a data person myself, so I get it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

WateryTart said:


> My insurance company nixes Rotts, pits and pit mixes, Akitas, Chows, and wolf hybrids. I think that's it.
> 
> Related question, do breed restrictions by insurance companies bother anyone? I have friends who are pit fans who hate that insurance companies can do this; I am less bothered because I figure some team of actuaries somewhere had data showing that Dogs A, B, and C cost the company significantly more in claims than other dogs. I don't like it, but it obviously didn't bother me enough that I took my business elsewhere.


It does bother me because I don't know what breeds I might have down the line. I also think that if they have a breed ban then at any time they can add more breeds and German Shepherds are right there with Rotts, pit bulls, etc. All State had labs on the list in Illinois, that is a pretty common breed. I don't want to deal with anyone that has a list.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

WateryTart said:


> I don't think you're attacking!
> 
> It's true that people in general care more when we're directly affected. But at the risk of sounding like I doth protest too much: I really wouldn't have been up in arms if the GSD had been on "the list" for one company. I knew another would be fine, and given how far in we were at that point, it would have been a simple matter of asking my husband what needed to happen to switch companies and taking that on as a household action item.
> 
> I tend to be pretty matter of fact about this stuff; I'm a data person myself, so I get it.



That's because you know you yourself will be fine. And that's how all the restriction are creeping up on us. Today one insurance company wants to save money by banning some breeds. Tomorrow another likes the idea and bans them too. Then all dogs are banned. I'm exaggerating but this is how it happens. They test out a little and wait for the backslash. There's none so they go on with limitations. 

I'm also guilty of only caring when it comes to me.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

lalachka said:


> That's because you know you yourself will be fine. And that's how all the restriction are creeping up on us. Today one insurance company wants to save money by banning some breeds. Tomorrow another likes the idea and bans them too. Then all dogs are banned. I'm exaggerating but this is how it happens. They test out a little and wait for the backslash. There's none so they go on with limitations.
> 
> I'm also guilty of only caring when it comes to me.


Okay.


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## Rottendog (Mar 6, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> My insurance company nixes Rotts, pits and pit mixes, Akitas, Chows, and wolf hybrids. I think that's it.
> 
> Related question, do breed restrictions by insurance companies bother anyone? I have friends who are pit fans who hate that insurance companies can do this; I am less bothered because I figure some team of actuaries somewhere had data showing that Dogs A, B, and C cost the company significantly more in claims than other dogs. I don't like it, but it obviously didn't bother me enough that I took my business elsewhere.


Yes it bothers me very much. I recently built a new house and refuse to do business with insurance companies which have breed bans and which require you to have all of your insurance at their company. I actually ran into one company which refused to cover my house unless I gave them all my insurance business. I choose to insure my cars and house with different companies due to a bad past experience with an insurance company. Yes I know rates are a little higher but it should be my choice. I could see having a higher rate or rider for a particular breed like you do for different kinds of cars. Needless to say, a Corvette would cost more to insure than my 2003 Durango puppy hauler. However if I choose to have the Corvette, then I would willingly pay the price. I see the same with dogs. If I want the bottom dollar rates, then I have no dogs or a fufu dog. Too bad insurance companies don't wake up and realize this. But then again, I see them as someone who is trying their best to remove me from my money with zero responsibility on their part. Yep no love lost here for insurance companies.


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## BePrepared (May 16, 2014)

I'm an Allstate agent. Here's how this will work if you have a claim. Your contract (assuming it's with a major insurer) does NOT prohibit the possession of any specific type of dog, although they may reject you at signup for having certain types of dogs. At the time of signup, they asked you if you have a dog. If you answered that question truthfully AT THAT TIME, your coverage will be honored regardless of your subsequent addition of a dog to the family. 

If you have a claim for dog liability (dog bite, etc) they will pay your claim, then most likely non-renew you at your next renewal. This will not prevent them from paying the claim, plus any associated court costs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BePrepared said:


> I'm an Allstate agent. Here's how this will work if you have a claim. Your contract (assuming it's with a major insurer) does NOT prohibit the possession of any specific type of dog, although they may reject you at signup for having certain types of dogs. At the time of signup, they asked you if you have a dog. If you answered that question truthfully AT THAT TIME, your coverage will be honored regardless of your subsequent addition of a dog to the family.
> 
> If you have a claim for dog liability (dog bite, etc) they will pay your claim, then most likely non-renew you at your next renewal. This will not prevent them from paying the claim, plus any associated court costs.


What if someone gets a dog a couple months into the policy, cals up and states they have a breed, it's on the list, do they renew the policy at the end of the term? And why are the lists different in all areas and not the same across the board?


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## odins_raven (Jun 30, 2014)

llombardo, my advice would be to not say a thing to them or it is just going to cause problems for you. Read your policy, if there is no language about the breed being banned then they are contractually obligated to uphold the policy. You answered them honestly when you applied, unless there is a clause in your policy saying you have to notify them of a banned breed (which i highly doubt) i would highly suggest not telling them anything unless they ask you. Tipping them off when not required will only result in bad outcomes.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

odins_raven said:


> llombardo, my advice would be to not say a thing to them or it is just going to cause problems for you. Read your policy, if there is no language about the breed being banned then they are contractually obligated to uphold the policy. You answered them honestly when you applied, unless there is a clause in your policy saying you have to notify them of a banned breed (which i highly doubt) i would highly suggest not telling them anything unless they ask you. Tipping them off when not required will only result in bad outcomes.


I don't have an insurance that has a list, I would NEVER do business with one. I know what I was told when I was getting quotes and I want to see if we get the same answer here. I am also pretty sure that the list is not in writing.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Becareful with "never" statements. We may end up with all insurance companies having a "list" and all of us really do need homeowners insurance. (One of my neighbors in Arkansas didn't have it and his house burned. I'm trying not to go there ever.)


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

middleofnowhere said:


> Becareful with "never" statements. We may end up with all insurance companies having a "list" and all of us really do need homeowners insurance. (One of my neighbors in Arkansas didn't have it and his house burned. I'm trying not to go there ever.)


If it comes to that, either lots of breeds will become extinct or lots of people will become liars.


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## odins_raven (Jun 30, 2014)

I honestly don't see the reason for calling them and letting them know you got a dog if its not required by your policy(contract). Why expose yourself to risk if you don't have to? Besides, anything they say on the phone means absolutely NOTHING unless it is in writing...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

odins_raven said:


> I honestly don't see the reason for calling them and letting them know you got a dog if its not required by your policy(contract). Why expose yourself to risk if you don't have to? Besides, anything they say on the phone means absolutely NOTHING unless it is in writing...


Well the problem lies within the company then. I have made about 4 calls to the same company. If you call the 800 number, the second question they ask is what kind of dogs are in the home. They don't disclose their is a list of dogs that are not allowed. When I asked about the list, I was put on hold and then it was provided to me. When I called an actual office, they weren't aware of a list and had to research it. Suggesting that someone lies about having a dog or not reporting getting a dog just isn't right. Insurance companies tend to have fine lines everywhere and they will fight tooth and nail to find them. I had to wait almost 5 years for a claim on an accident because they did everything they could to try not to pay. Why would anyone want to go through that?


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## BePrepared (May 16, 2014)

llombardo said:


> What if someone gets a dog a couple months into the policy, cals up and states they have a breed, it's on the list, do they renew the policy at the end of the term? And why are the lists different in all areas and not the same across the board?


There are a couple of reasons why the lists of prohibited breeds would be different in different areas. 

The most common is that the insurance commission (TDI for instance) will only approve certain breeds for a company to refuse coverage to. If the department of insurance in that state refuses to allow an exclusion for a given breed, it must be covered. In addition to that, they determine what sort of surcharges are allowed on non-excluded breeds. 

The second possibility is that the loss assessment done by one insurance company may see a higher threat level for specific breeds than another company's assessment will for that same breed. 

Either way, if you tell them you have a breed on their prohibited list, you will almost certainly receive a non-renewal notice before your next renewal


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## odins_raven (Jun 30, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Well the problem lies within the company then. I have made about 4 calls to the same company. If you call the 800 number, the second question they ask is what kind of dogs are in the home. They don't disclose their is a list of dogs that are not allowed. When I asked about the list, I was put on hold and then it was provided to me. When I called an actual office, they weren't aware of a list and had to research it. Suggesting that someone lies about having a dog or not reporting getting a dog just isn't right. Insurance companies tend to have fine lines everywhere and they will fight tooth and nail to find them. I had to wait almost 5 years for a claim on an accident because they did everything they could to try not to pay. Why would anyone want to go through that?


Definitely agree with you about them trying to find every reason why they do not have to pay out a claim, that is why i suggested you read your policy. Nothing spoken to you is binding, it must be in writing (unless you are completing an enrollment via telephone at which point it will be very clear because the employee will have to read from a script verbatim and you have to answer the questions definitely with a yes or no.) 

I was not suggesting someone lie about their dog to the insurance company, i was suggesting you read your policy and understand what your obligations are to be covered under the policy. Just like how the insurance company will fight you tooth and nail to not pay a claim, you should fight tooth and nail to protect your own interests which means not disclosing a new dog if you are not required. When you sign up for a policy, you are attesting at that point in time, to the best of your knowledge, you have provided accurate information (guarantee your policy has this exact language).

As others have mentioned, you will most likely get a non-renewal notice or will be assessed a surcharge for having a pet on their "banned breed" list if you bring it to their attention and are not required to. I have been in the insurance industry my entire career so I'm not making this stuff up.

At the end of the day, its your policy. If you want to run the risk of getting a non-renewal or a surcharge which you can easily and LEGALLY avoid then that is your choice, at least you have the facts to make a decision that is best for your situation.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BePrepared said:


> There are a couple of reasons why the lists of prohibited breeds would be different in different areas.
> 
> The most common is that the insurance commission (TDI for instance) will only approve certain breeds for a company to refuse coverage to. If the department of insurance in that state refuses to allow an exclusion for a given breed, it must be covered. In addition to that, they determine what sort of surcharges are allowed on non-excluded breeds.
> 
> ...


My point is that I don't believe the list is part of the written policy but it exists as a whole. If it was part of the policy, then all agents at 800 call center and in actual offices would be aware of it. The company I'm referring to will not even charge a higher rate, they just don't renew. I also don't think its fair to restrict dogs based on breed. What happens if a person has a GSD for a disability? Can the insurance company deny that customer?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BePrepared said:


> There are a couple of reasons why the lists of prohibited breeds would be different in different areas.
> 
> The most common is that the insurance commission (TDI for instance) will only approve certain breeds for a company to refuse coverage to. If the department of insurance in that state refuses to allow an exclusion for a given breed, it must be covered. In addition to that, they determine what sort of surcharges are allowed on non-excluded breeds.
> 
> ...


My point is that I don't believe the list is part of the written policy but it exists as a whole. If it was part of the policy, then all agents at 800 call center and in actual offices would be aware of it. The company I'm referring to will not even charge a higher rate, they just don't renew or reject. I also don't think its fair to restrict dogs based on breed. What happens if a person has a GSD for a disability? Can the insurance company deny that customer?


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## odins_raven (Jun 30, 2014)

llombardo said:


> My point is that I don't believe the list is part of the written policy but it exists as a whole. If it was part of the policy, then all agents at 800 call center and in actual offices would be aware of it. The company I'm referring to will not even charge a higher rate, they just don't renew or reject. I also don't think its fair to restrict dogs based on breed. What happens if a person has a GSD for a disability? Can the insurance company deny that customer?


This issue is pretty cut and dry, not stated in the policy = not enforceable. The reason these lists are out there in the first place is to discourage people/agents from signing up if they own a breed of dog on their ban list. It can also be used as ammunition to deny a claim or coverage if you lied on the initial application about owning a dog on that list as this is one of the things they will ask you when applying for a new policy. (maybe not specifically if you have a dog on the ban list, but they will ask if you have any pets)


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

odins_raven said:


> This issue is pretty cut and dry, not stated in the policy = not enforceable. The reason these lists are out there in the first place is to discourage people/agents from signing up if they own a breed of dog on their ban list. It can also be used as ammunition to deny a claim or coverage if you lied on the initial application about owning a dog on that list as this is one of the things they will ask you when applying for a new policy. (maybe not specifically if you have a dog on the ban list, but they will ask if you have any pets)


Can they deny a person that has a service dog that is on the list?


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## odins_raven (Jun 30, 2014)

That I am not 100% sure of but my guess is no they cant. A service dog or any service animal would not be considered a pet, and I would image they would be in violation of federal ADA laws if they refused to provide coverage to someone with a service animal as it would be discrimination. I can almost guarantee they will ask for paperwork proving the service dog is legit though...


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## BePrepared (May 16, 2014)

llombardo said:


> My point is that I don't believe the list is part of the written policy but it exists as a whole. If it was part of the policy, then all agents at 800 call center and in actual offices would be aware of it. The company I'm referring to will not even charge a higher rate, they just don't renew. I also don't think its fair to restrict dogs based on breed. What happens if a person has a GSD for a disability? Can the insurance company deny that customer?


yes, the can, and they will IF GSDs are listed as a breed for which they can rate or reject a policy. 

and yes, there IS a list. Don't overestimate the knowledge of your average agent... they aren't told even half of the regulations that go into rate placement. The call center is even worse. For the most part, those people are not insurance agents, and have virtually no insurance training. The only place i know of to find those numbers is on the company actuarial tables, and they don't give those to the general public.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

BePrepared said:


> yes, the can, and they will IF GSDs are listed as a breed for which they can rate or reject a policy.
> 
> and yes, there IS a list. Don't overestimate the knowledge of your average agent... they aren't told even half of the regulations that go into rate placement. The call center is even worse. For the most part, those people are not insurance agents, and have virtually no insurance training. The only place i know of to find those numbers is on the company actuarial tables, and they don't give those to the general public.



So how does an insurance company have the right to by pass federal acts in place for people with disabilities? That is discrimination and grounds for a lawsuit IMO.


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## BePrepared (May 16, 2014)

llombardo said:


> So how does an insurance company have the right to by pass federal acts in place for people with disabilities? That is discrimination and grounds for a lawsuit IMO.



you might not be understanding the nature of insurance regulation. The ADA does not entitle you to insurance coverage, and it doesn't prohibit an insurance company from increasing your premium due to increased loss risk. In my state TDI determines what can and cannot be rated against or denied for. WHY you have a dog doesn't moderate the risk associated with that dog. Insurance companies insure and rate based on risk. It is not discriminatory, because it applies to ALL persons with a given dog breed. I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying it's the way it works


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