# We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negatives?



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

As I've posted, I am considering making the raw switch over. I've read all of the positives about RAW but wanted to hear if anyone here has seen any negatives? I've read of a few dogs choking on bones, but dogs can choke on A LOT of things. I want people that are not 100% against raw to critic their own diet because all the info I'm getting is bias either way so I feel that this it probably the best way to get critics before I go all the way.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negati*

Not all dogs do well on raw and some dogs do better on certain proteins than on others. Most dogs do great on it.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negati*

Dogs are more likely to choke on kibble (and dogs have-- famous case with some Iditarod dogs, and a vet's dog who did, also) than on bones, as _dogs were designed to eat bones._









The real negatives might be:

1.You do need a bit of freezer room.







In my old apartment, my freezer was the size of a shoebox! Eek! You can get a lil' stand-alone freezer for free or cheap on Freecycle, Craigslist, or in the local Pennysaver.

2.You need to accept that you will have more education on nutrition than your vet will have had. He or she will have had 11 hours of nutrition ed, provided by Pedigree or Hills. This means-- you will need to either find a vet who is happy with the raw diet idea, or, find a vet who is not afraid of the idea, nor intimidated by a client with more of a nutritional knowledgebase. Some folks go in with a dog with a torn paw pad from running on a bottlecap at the beach-- and the vet blames the raw diet.







Some of us don't mention the diet. We let the vets OOOH and AAAHHH over the gleaming white teeth, glossy thick coats, and astoundingly bright eyes and ultra-defined muscle-tone.. and we just nod and say "Thank you."














Then later tell 'em our dogs have been switched to raw-- and that is why they are _thriving!_


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

*Re: We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negati*

Time, effort, money, freezer space, more consciousness about cleanliness and hygiene, more cleanup. Sometimes, dogs will get the runs but one day s/d not be a concern. Sometimes a bit of blood in the p**p, along w/some bits of bone. Again, not a concern unless its a lot of blood over a long period of time. Dogs can dig up your yard to bury excess food. Dogs can be more protective over their raw food, and dogs that will share a kibble bowl can come into blows over raw meat, or growl at you and their packmates. More effort to get a complete and balanced diet. More work to find reliable supplies. 
I was 100% raw but for the above reasons, mainly the last two, as well as improvements in the last few years in the quality of premium dog foods, and also having dogs with better genetics and that get more exercise, and live in a cleaner environment in the country, I'm now about 50/50, or 60/40 raw/commercial formula. Over-all for ultimate health, there's still nothing better than 100% raw if you are able to give it complete, balanced and fresh.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negati*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowNot all dogs do well on raw and some dogs do better on certain proteins than on others. Most dogs do great on it.


this is the only downside that i've found to it. (the others bring up good points, put personally i didnt have any of those issues) i have one that does well, and one that doesnt. i've tried tweaking his diet as much as i can (the amount, the ratios, etc) - the only thing left would be to try another protein source that is either extremely expensive or extremely difficult to find.

initially i thought that convenience and preparation was going to be difficult for me, but you figure out a system and get the hang of it pretty quickly. when we travel i use kibble, or when i have someone else stopping by to feed them for me.


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## ahlamarana (Sep 22, 2008)

Feeding raw while traveling can be a pain. If you ever plan on boarding your dogs, you need to really look to find a facility that will feed raw. 

I second the vet comment, there is not a vet here that supports raw feeding and they blame every problem on the diet.

The fresh breath and lack of doggy odor alone makes up for any negatives in my book!!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Repackaging cases of meat, cutting up whole half frozen turkeys and chickens, trying to break up bags of frozen meat because you forgot to defrost something over night and travel can be a bit of an inconvenience. 

I'll be honest, in 10 years I have not any dogs that didn't do well on raw or had a hard time switching. I'm about to have my forth raw fed litter and have switched a number of adults and countless puppies.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Oh and carrying the 40# boxes of meat into the house.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

And getting funny looks at the stores when you pick up those big boxes or bags.

We clean out some of the stores in the area with chicken qtrs.....Eggs, chicken wings for the puppies, etc,


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## Caja's Mom (Aug 6, 2003)

Time is the biggest thing. It just isn't as simple as opening a bag of kibble and putting a couple of cups in a bowl. There is some thawing and cutting up someplace along the way. Even if you do pre-made mixes you still have to thaw it and measure with a scale. Probably add at least 1 other thing to the meat. Eggs, oil, pumpkin, joint supplements etc. Price really depends on what you are feeding and location. Chicken and turkey are very cheap here, but beef is not, or at least I couldn't find a better supplier than Aldi's. This time around trying a pre-made mix which is a ton easier, but still have to buy it in bulk which means measuring, bagging and freezing it at the time of purchase.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

*Re: We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negati*



> Originally Posted By: Brightelf
> 2.You need to accept that you will have more education on nutrition than your vet will have had. He or she will have had 11 hours of nutrition ed, provided by Pedigree or Hills. This means-- you will need to either find a vet who is happy with the raw diet idea, or, find a vet who is not afraid of the idea, nor intimidated by a client with more of a nutritional knowledgebase.


Not ALL vets. Some vets do extra research on their own and learn more about nutrition... My regular vet dislikes Hills greatly and she recommends GOOD foods for her clients. My holistic vet also does nutritional counseling although I haven't done it with my dogs, she is well-versed in dog nutrition.
My holistic vet recommended a raw diet for my Golden, and my regular vet agreed. Actually I just picked up some raw (Nature's Variety) from my regular vet a few days ago, she ordered a lot of raw food from them and asked if I wanted anything (good prices too!)
My GSD was on a raw diet in her previous home so I just continued what they were doing.

The downsides:

1) Cost- can be more expensive than kibble if you are not able to find a good source for the raw food.

2) Space- Takes up a lot of freezer space. This is the only reason I'm not using 100% raw right now, I don't have a dedicated freezer for it so I can only buy smaller amounts at a time (also more expensive.)

3) Time- Takes longer to prepare a raw meal than to scoop some kibble in a bowl. It can also take extra time for you to research the diet and plan out what you will be feeding.

4) Cleaning- A little more cleaning involved due to the raw meat.

5) The public- When you tell people you feed your dog raw you may get weird looks, comments, and people who will argue with you or tell you how bad that is for your dog.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: We've all seen the benefits of RAW, any negati*



> Originally Posted By: Chicagocanine5) The public- When you tell people you feed your dog raw you may get weird looks, comments, and people who will argue with you or tell you how bad that is for your dog.


That must get SO old. 

Thanks for all of your responses so far!!


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

Negatives?

Well everytime one of my sheps has been given or gotten a hold of any type of raw meat it has landed her in the E-vet with horrible diarrhea and vomiting. I figured after the third time it was more than just a fluke. Twice I gave it to her and once she stole a piece of raw chicken off the counter. All three times she got very sick.

My other dog can eat it and my cats can, but finding freezer space and a bulk source of meat can be an issue. 

Your vet may fight you each and everytime you go there and tell them what you feed.

It's can be a pain if you travel a lot, but that's where kibble can come in or pre-packaged raw.

Forgive me if these have already been posted. I didn't read through the thread, just the question.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

Mandi does not get 100% raw, but so far the negatives I have found (and have been mentioned) are the time it takes to split it all up, prepare it, etc. It is not so bad once it is done, but dedicating a few hours one day to preparing a months worth of meals is overwhelming.

The lectures from the vet, groomer, random pet store patron, those annoying people from the pet food industry that hang out in the pet stores trying to talk everyone into buying their food, etc on how horrible raw is and how dangerous to the dog it is.

Clean up, it takes more effort to clean up after raw food preparation than just scooping some kibble into a bowl.

Mandi does not do well with pork. Every so often I give her another piece to try it out and every time she gets runny poops. I dont know what it is, but she just cannot tolerate it. 

What I have found that is fairly easy to prepare, not quite as time consuming and Mandi does exceptional on is a variation of satin balls. I take the raw hamburger, mix in the total (actually I go to Aldi and get the generic all bran cereal) raw eggs and some oats. I also add some peanut butter. I leave out the wheat germ, sometimes I add in molasses, sometimes not. I mix it all up and then pack it into those small snack size ziplock baggies. I then pack those into larger gallon size bags and freeze it. Every day I take one pack out and put it in the fridge and put the thawed pack from the frigde into her bowl with 3/4 mixed frozen veggies and her kibble. When we have meat with any kind of bone, I remove the bone before cooking and freeze them and pull a few out a week for her..


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Indy can't tolerate raw, no matter how slowly she is switched -- she moans, she groans, she does not do well, and it's not a phase. She doesn't do well with most raw vegetables either. There is a condition in chinese medicine that explains this.

Max doesn't do well on raw, he ends up with severe signs of intestinal overgrowth. I think he has no natural defenses at all. If I kept him on raw, I would also have to keep him on antibiotics.

Btw, neither dog can tolerate any dog food of any kind.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Mandalay...Mandi does not do well with pork. Every so often I give her another piece to try it out and every time she gets runny poops. I dont know what it is, but she just cannot tolerate it. ..


I had a vet that treated a lot of service Shepherds. She stated that a lot of GSDs cannot tolerate pork. I thought that was an odd statedment. But of all the foods that Max is sensitive too, pork is the one that immediately will make him ill.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

My GSD eats pork, but I cook it for him.









My senior was never able to tolerate raw. She can eat cooked meat, but raw? No. It gave her terrible liquid poop the several times I tried. Not all dogs can eat raw. 

My younger dogs do well on a raw diet. My biggest complaint is dishes. I serve their food on dishes. At the end of the day, I have 6 plates or bowls (plus spoons because I mix other stuff in) , just from the dogs... If I were serving kibble, I could just pour some into the same old bowl, day after day after day...









And speaking of weird looks, we get those when we're buying stuff because we buy most of our meat at regular stores. The 60 lbs of turkey necks at Safeway; the 60 lbs of meat at Costco; the 70 cans of canned Salmon at the drugstore when they had it on sale. Dh is always afraid to ask me if I need him to stop on the way home from work because I might just say "yes."


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks for the contniued responses! So helpful!!!


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## bigbanker (Jul 21, 2006)

No pork huh, I guess they must be Jewish German Shepherds LOL


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## WinitheGSD (Sep 21, 2008)

Actually I recently read about a women who raw fed her dogs and one of the dogs got bone impaction in it's small intestines!! And of course the common choking issue.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: WiniIsmylifeActually I recently read about a women who raw fed her dogs and one of the dogs got bone impaction in it's small intestines!!


That's so scary!


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## Little Red (Jan 10, 2009)

The negative aspects that I can think of are pretty much the same as everyone else has already mentioned: not as convenient, the on-going search for bargains on meats, the frig and freezer being dominated by dog food, the looks at the check-out when purchasing cases of canned salmon or sardines or frozen liver or huge quantities of chicken or beef bones, the hours of cut up and preparation to store in the freezer which is now way too small, and of course the long haul of all of this up the front steps (we live on a steep hillside). I am lucky that my dogs seem to have no problem with switch to raw, but that would definitely be a negative factor to going raw if your dog(s) had a bad reaction/digestion with it.
The first raw meals were, ummmm, interesting, especially since I am vegetarian I had not handled meat in about 20 years. But quickly you can get the routine down and it is extremely worth the effort I think.
I started supplementing my 4 GSD's diet with raw about a month ago when my 9 1/2 year old (my first dog ever!) was diagnosed with terminal cancer and had no appetite and was losing weight at an alarming rate.
Unfortunately it was too late to save him, but the last month of his life he got to enjoy a whole new menu of raw foods. For a while he gained weight again and was able to get some strength back. His last meal that he shared with his pack was fresh raw sardines (heads and all), he loved it.
Currently the surviving 3 GSD's get a mix of kibble and raw while I work out the details (making sure that they get all the nutrients they need), but plan to go at least 90% raw. ( I want to keep just a bit of kibble in there in case someone else has to feed them sometime in the future,). The members of this board have been so extremely helpful, they have helped me through a very difficult and sad start to the year. We are lucky to have such a resource. Good luck with your transition to raw.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: WiniIsmylifeActually I recently read about a women who raw fed her dogs and one of the dogs got bone impaction in it's small intestines!! And of course the common choking issue.


There are risks in every way of feeding. I fed a ibt quality canned food for awhile so I could mix in some venison and some rabbit for variey and it caused kidney problems for my dogs.....back to strictly homeprepared.


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## tabatha500 (Feb 5, 2009)

I fed raw for a year, and recently switched back to kibble. Honestly, the only benefit I saw with raw was his clean teeth. His coat is actually nicer on kibble.

My dog LOVES food, but often didn't want to eat his RMBs. He also had many bouts of not feeling well when eating raw. He would pace around in discomfort sometimes after eating.....something that he never does on kibble. 

When I fed him kibble again for the first time, he was so excited and happy, he was whining and dancing while I was opening the bag.

I guess I have one of those dogs who just doesn't do well on raw.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Tabatha FI fed raw for a year, and recently switched back to kibble. Honestly, the only benefit I saw with raw was his clean teeth. His coat is actually nicer on kibble.
> 
> My dog LOVES food, but often didn't want to eat his RMBs. He also had many bouts of not feeling well when eating raw. He would pace around in discomfort sometimes after eating.....something that he never does on kibble.
> 
> ...


That's so interesting! Thanks for sharing.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Question: If a dog was to suffer a puncture somewhere due to a bone how would you be able to tell?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

See my answer in your other thread.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: WiniIsmylifeActually I recently read about a women who raw fed her dogs and one of the dogs got bone impaction in it's small intestines!!
> ...


But think of all the things that our dogs come into contact with everyday that have the potential to be harmful. 

How easy would it be for them to chew off a piece of toy, a stuffed animal ear, etc and choke on it? How dog proofed are our houses, really? I know that Mandi could open a drawer if she really wanted and eat a fork! They could chew up our shoes that we leave laying around and the shoeace could damage their intestines, or even cause death!!

Everything is potentially harmful to all of us and our dogs...as long as you limit it as much as possible and dont leave them alone with their food the chances are slim that anything would happen. Plus we all keep an eye on our dogs so that we can take them to a vet if they are acting strange.

I am not trying to trivialize the thought that they could choke on a bone, it is a definite possibility, but the benefits of even a partially raw diet have outweighed the risks, at least for me.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Tabatha FI fed raw for a year, and recently switched back to kibble. Honestly, the only benefit I saw with raw was his clean teeth. His coat is actually nicer on kibble.
> 
> My dog LOVES food, but often didn't want to eat his RMBs. He also had many bouts of not feeling well when eating raw. He would pace around in discomfort sometimes after eating.....something that he never does on kibble.
> 
> ...


Ya know what I think about with this?....ya know how some dogs can be given one kind of kibble one day and another kind the next and be fine, while other dogs need months to change gradually? Well, I think some dogs may be like this with raw, too. Mandi pretty much gets the same thing everyday, with bones thrown in randomly a couple times a week. Mostly with raw, dogs are getting a variety so everyday their diet has changed slightly. I think some dogs just cant tolerate this. 

I dont know....I am not a vet or a nutritionist...just something I thought about a while back when we were starting in with the sibo/tylosin mess.


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