# Prong collar alternative.



## Malakhov (Jan 2, 2010)

The prong collar is banned in the province of Quebec, canada. So I was looking for an alternative and found this:

https://www.amazon.ca/StarMark-Trai...8&qid=1466148900&sr=1-2&keywords=prong+collar

Anyone ever used it? If not, what would be the best alternative?

Puppy is 5 months old now, the first 5 minutes or so of the walk she doesn't pull very much but it goes downhill from there. She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn. I'd like an alternative to the choker which I used with my other GSDs and wanted to try the prong but just found out about the ban.

Thanks!


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Is StarMark a good brand? Herm Sprenger do something similar: Neck Tech Prong Collar in Australia! but it's still called a "prong collar", so you may want to check what classifies as a prong collar first.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

On this site the neck tech is called a pinch collar, so you may get away with it.

Stainless Steel Neck Tech Pinch Dog Collar [HS73#1091 50155 010 (55) Stainless Steel Neck Tech] : Prong Collars, Pinch Collars, Dog Training Collars, Curogan Collars, Chain Dog Collars, Fur Saver Collars, Choke Dog Collars, Herm Sprenger Collars, Dog


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

pinch collar is simply another word for prong collar. the names are interchangeable with most trainers because that is an accurate description of what a "prong" collar actually is and how it works.

with young puppies, I use a limited slip collar. it should still be all fun and games at 5 months old


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This issue has come up before - they are not banned, they are simply 'not approved'.

So they are officially frowned upon, but there is no legistlation in effect to ban them. I have a feeling that the organizations that are trying to get the collar banned are making it sound like they are.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

With most bans its about the typical style of prong. People see it and are horrified. When they see something that's not typical, they don't think of it. I'm sure the neck tech would be fine. 
That being said, do not let your dog pull. Stop. Just stand still. Or change direction. And treat and reward. 
I think that 5 mos old is still in the learning phase so don't correct something the dog does not know yet. Its confusing. 
I'm not an expert and that's just my opinion. I carry high reward treats (cheese sticks) and reward all times I get eye contact. And when my dog gets excited I get him to focus on me, on walks.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The neck tech collar is a prong/pinch collar. I use the neck tech martingale. I heard the snap collar neck tech has issues with the snap/buckle. I use the neck tech martingale just for extra control if I need it. You still need to dog your dog how to walk on a leash. To me it is in the middle between a flat collar and prong. The regular prong I think is more effective but the neck tech martingale works great for us. I like the look of it also and often get compliments on the collar as it doesn't look like a prong when worn by the dog. Another plus is it is also easier to put on then the regular prong. The regular prong collar made me realize how weak my hands really are when trying to put it on.


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## Malakhov (Jan 2, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> This issue has come up before - they are not banned, they are simply 'not approved'.
> 
> So they are officially frowned upon, but there is no legistlation in effect to ban them. I have a feeling that the organizations that are trying to get the collar banned are making it sound like they are.


No, in Quebec they are banned, as well as electric collars, 600$ fines if you are caught using one after a warning. And people will actually report you if they see you using one, (removed by ADMIN). They just banned the pit bull this week in quebec city, people have 6 months to get rid of them because we've had a few attacks in a couple of weeks.


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## Malakhov (Jan 2, 2010)

I will look into the neck tech, thanks. I know at that age I'm not expecting her to be perfect, just a little tool to make things easier. I usually do some heeling for about 10 minutes, then let her enjoy the rest of the walk but also making sure to not let her pull on the leash as well.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Oh wow! I'm sorry! That's crazy!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Malakhov said:


> She's not pulling that hard but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn.


As Cloudpump wrote, train your puppy, all you need is a flat collar.

How much off leash exercise does this puppy get? 

Do you ever walk her loose leash or always heeling?


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Malakhov said:


> The prong collar is banned in the province of Quebec, canada. So I was looking for an alternative and found this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/StarMark-Trai...8&qid=1466148900&sr=1-2&keywords=prong+collar
> 
> ...


Your post took me back to when my dog was 5 months old.
OMGosh!! I'd never want to go back there again. LOL
In addition to being stubborn, I swear he could pull a sled across Alaska.

Maybe consult a trainer that understands the breed and see what collar s/he recommends. Then sign up for that trainer's basic obedience class.
That's what I did and it worked.

I think it's really important that the walk with your dog should always be enjoyable.
Good luck.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

There has been so much contradictory information on the Quebec Prong Collar ban - I've done some research, and the law is that no collar that causes pain or interferes with breathing can be used. Prongs and electric collars are listed as examples of collars that *could* cause pain or *could * interfere with breathing, but are not banned per se. Funny thing is, that a regular flat collar can interfere with breathing, and so can a choke collar, yet those are on the list of "okay" collars. 

I found one news item that quotes a government official as saying that specific collars are not banned - the use of the collars need to be governed by the animal's welfare, and the artivle makes a retraction at the end specifying that the no collars have been banned. 

Quebec takes steps to protect pets from shock collars, prongs - Montreal | Globalnews.ca
Unfortunately even news outlets are quick to jump on the media band-wagon and repeat erroneous information without checking facts for themselves, and I've read the original french regulations, and no, the collars are not banned outright, but the wording with the examples of "approved" and "not approved" collars were clearly chosen to make it sound like the collars are banned. 

As per the regulation, if you see a dog pulling so hard on a flat collar that their breathing is restricted, they are in contravention and you could report them!

EDA: A sport-dog blog on the Quebec regulation, and goes into more depth into the "recommended" and "not recommended" wording - highlights that no specific collar is banned.
http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2014/08/e-collars-in-quebec.html


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## Malakhov (Jan 2, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> There has been so much contradictory information on the Quebec Prong Collar ban - I've done some research, and the law is that no collar that causes pain or interferes with breathing can be used. Prongs and electric collars are listed as examples of collars that *could* cause pain or *could * interfere with breathing, but are not banned per se. Funny thing is, that a regular flat collar can interfere with breathing, and so can a choke collar, yet those are on the list of "okay" collars.
> 
> I found one news item that quotes a government official as saying that specific collars are not banned - the use of the collars need to be governed by the animal's welfare, and the artivle makes a retraction at the end specifying that the no collars have been banned.
> 
> ...


Yes there's a lot of contradicting reports and a lot of contradicting events and this is just provincial laws, there's also municipal laws as well. Ive heard of people getting fines, people go to court and win and have their fines cancelled but this is all a big mess that I want to avoid at all cost.


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## Malakhov (Jan 2, 2010)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> As Cloudpump wrote, train your puppy, all you need is a flat collar.
> 
> How much off leash exercise does this puppy get?
> 
> Do you ever walk her loose leash or always heeling?


I practice fetch with her, also walk off leash with her in the woods and she's very very good at it. She will follow me all the time and if she gets a bit to far, just calling her and she's right back at me. She doesnt like to do anything else so far, no tugging or anything else.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Malakhov said:


> I practice fetch with her, also walk off leash with her in the woods and she's very very good at it. She will follow me all the time and if she gets a bit to far, just calling her and she's right back at me. She doesnt like to do anything else so far, no tugging or anything else.


I am a little confused. Are you saying she walks loose leash fine and only pulls when you try to make her heel?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am a little confused. Are you saying she walks loose leash fine and only pulls when you try to make her heel?





Malakhov said:


> I practice fetch with her, *also walk off leash with her in the woods and she's very very good at it. She will follow me all the time and if she gets a bit to far, just calling her and she's right back at me.*


Sounds like she stays with the OP_ off_ leash, but pulls _on_ leash.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Malakhov said:


> The prong collar is banned in the province of Quebec, canada. So I was looking for an alternative and found this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/StarMark-Trai...8&qid=1466148900&sr=1-2&keywords=prong+collar
> 
> ...


I looked at the collar your are considering. With the ban, I would be hesitant to advise using it as it does look like a prong collar. I have never used one, but if you are considering it, perhaps, to first ask your local police dept. or animal control if it would be allowable. I do understand the problems you are having, as my Sting was the same way. I did use a choker on him, and he didn't get the point of the corrections for the heeling. I would try circling him or turning sharply but that only worked for a bit. I finally removed the choker and did train him to heel off leash first by using treats - I would hold the treat by my waist on my left side when he came up to me , he got it, then I gradually had him walk a bit by my side before he got it. Heeling does take a lot of concentration and is very difficult for a young dog - so I just did it a little bit. For leash walking, I did use a flat collar and leash and the method described by Turid Rugaas in her book: My Dog Pulls: What do I do? But though it did help, as he got stronger and older, if he saw something, he would lunge and go. So then I decided to use a harness - front ring. There are several kinds. I used the Walk In Sync https://dogwalkinsync.com/ and the training method. For him, it worked great and I could then walk him in town on leash. It may be an alternative for you to consider.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Malakhov said:


> She's not pulling that hard *but every time I correct her and bring her back to the heel positition *with a flat collar or martingale, she either just doesn't mind it or is pretty stubborn.





Cassidy's Mom said:


> Sounds like she stays with the OP_ off_ leash, but pulls _on_ leash.


I don't know, sounds like she is pulling while OP is trying to train heel.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You can use a prong collar but the most important thing, regardless of the correction collar, is to teach them what you want! And you can do that on flat collar or martingale. They need to learn to release to the pressure of the collar.

It's very easy. There are a couple ways I've done it

1) This is very effective
The Domestics of Leash Walking | Naughty Dogge - Monique Anstee

2) When the dog goes to the end of the leash, slowly back up until the dog turns to you, lure into the position you want and reward. You build up steps in the right position. So first week might be just backing up and rewarding once your dog is back in position. Second week might be 3 steps walking with the line loose and in position. 

For some reason, I do things in 3's. 3 steps loose line, 3 steps focused heeling. I have no idea why. I think it restricts me from pushing the dog to soon. 3 steps, 6 steps, 9 steps and you got it.  If they can do 10, they can do 30.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I know several people in quebec and all use prong collars and e collars, they are not officially banned.

Either get a necktek or get a prong collar cover and call it a day.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

What about a secret powers collar, it is a prong sewn into a nylon collar. The prongs should be hidden in the dogs fur, no one should be able to tel...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well ... being that "guy" the whole thing seems pretty silly to me. As was stated a Flat Leash and collar is all one really needs ... you just have to know how to use one and that looks like the first clip here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

And if you "want to kick it up a notch ... use a "Slip Lead leash," which frankly what I "thought" countries with "Prong" Bans were using anyway?? Details on SLL are here:

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

I started with that first clip many years ago and was pretty good, the transition to a SLL was ridiculously easy, you can get that down .. a SLL is no big deal and it works quicker still if that's important. But a heads up a dog that walks well on leash is "not" automatically good off leash! A Chi taught me that one ... sometimes being able to train a dog in minuets to walk well on leash ... leads to overconfidence. ... lesson learned.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Well... the flat collar is all you need argument didn't work for us. I taught him to yield to pressure from day 1, and he was super until about 8 months. Then he got really big....then he realized he was big and strong, plus became super interested in chasing chipmunks. He never just "pulled" throughout a walk, but he would lean on the collar comfortably while eyeballing the chipmunk on the side of the road and was not sufficiently motivated to get off the collar and I never let him pull me anywhere.

Prong fixed that. Also he was content to jump around like a monkey sometimes when he saw the neighbors dog who he has played with before and pressure from the flat collar didn't discourage that but the prong did.

I feel like it is a good tool for us, he responds welll to it and I was able to nip it in the bud when he thought he might like to throw his weight around with me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Well... the flat collar is all you need argument didn't work for us. I taught him to yield to pressure from day 1, and he was super until about 8 months. Then he got really big....then he realized he was big and strong, plus became super interested in chasing chipmunks. He never just "pulled" throughout a walk, but he would lean on the collar comfortably while eyeballing the chipmunk on the side of the road and was not sufficiently motivated to get off the collar and I never let him pull me anywhere.
> 
> Prong fixed that. Also he was content to jump around like a monkey sometimes when he saw the neighbors dog who he has played with before and pressure from the flat collar didn't discourage that but the prong did.
> 
> I feel like it is a good tool for us, he responds welll to it and I was able to nip it in the bud when he thought he might like to throw his weight around with me.


BUT...you taught him the position to begin with. You moved to a correction collar for prey reasons. So you taught, proofed, corrected as necessary, and now what do you have?

IMO, that is a big difference than slapping on a correction collar without teaching them what you expect. I still use a prong when walking but 99.9% of the time, the leash is loose.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Taught him what position, loose leash? 

Yes I agree way better to lay a good foundation, but if you didn't you didn't and a dog that is merrily choking itself to death on a flat collar every walk may turn around faster on a prong.

Idk..... I don't think prongs are a cure all, there are things I don't like about it for sure.

And what you said is totally true for us: leash is loose 99 percent of the time. And he can see a chipmunk chattering at him 2 ft away and he may still get a little taller but he doesn't touch the leash.

I have seen a fair amount of people let their dogs desensitize to the prong and keep pulling on that. No tool of any sort replaces diligence or skill from the human.


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