# Might As Well Drag Me There



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Alright, i'm ready to admit it.

My GSD Sinister is not perfect. There is only one thing that really drives me nuts about him. He is a PITA when I walk him on a leash. Ever since he was little we kept him off leash and he always stays next to us. But we cannot take him everywhere off leash. He pulls constantly! When he starts to pull too hard I make him stop and sit and once I think he will behave I will start moving forward and say ok to release him from his sit and then he continues to pull again. I also try turning around and going the opposite way so he cant get to where he wants to go. 

Is there a certain collar you guys use that maybe I should go buy????

Thanks Guys!


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Have you tried any special types of collars yet? If so, what kind of collar(s) have you tried that didn't seem to work?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I have only used his regular leather collar. Do you have something in mind?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A front clip harness keeps the dog from pulling, directing them back to you when they try to pull.
I have the sensations, but that isn't found in stores that I know of. Premier brand would work the same and can be found everywhere.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My instructor asked us to get the 'Halti'. Although Hondo doesn't pull, he works really great in one. 

I fostered a lab that was a stray and my co-worker saw her as she got hit by a car. She adopted her and had her vetted. I kept her while she was going through treatment on both of her back legs. She had extensive damage to one leg, and the other was totally de-gloved, and she had to have all of her toes removed. She was horrible pulling on a leash. Because of the damage, she wasn't allowed to use her back legs. Once she healed she was sent home. The co-worker who adopted stated she was still horrible on a leash. I let her borrow the Halti - and she said she was 100% better. She went out and bought her one. 

It takes a while for the dog to get used to it. It took Hondo one long walk - and the next day, although he still would fight it once in a while, he was much better. By the third day he was fine.


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

You're going to get many different recommendations on this one so I'll start by saying you are going to have to make a choice. Take the advice and pick what you think will work best for Sinister. 

I have used the prong collar to help teach Dalton to stop pulling when he was younger. It worked very well as a training aid for this. It's just a tool and once you have Sinister trained you can work him off of this collar and back to his regular leather collar.


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## abby (Mar 13, 2010)

i might be killed for this but i was trained with a choke chain and used to use two leads one on the choke and one on the normal collar so the correction was there if needed!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks everyone! I am going to go check them all out.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also have used a prong collar (not on a puppy) when I needed to fine tune that pulling/heeling.

Sinister is a year old in your avatar, so a prong would be ok for him at this age if that's the way you decide to go.

Something else, work with him daily on the no pulling, my method of teaching a heel or atleast no pulling, is, if they pull, immediately go in the opposite direction, SAY NOTHING, keep doing this when they pull or lag alot,,when the dog gets into the position you want, (i want a left side heel), praise to the heavens "good spot, good heel",,(whatever you use for a command).

Granted, ya might get mighty dizzy changing directions, but if your consistent and say absolutely NOTHING until the dog is in the position you want, it does work) Also walk like you are on a mission, stand straight, and go) 

Don't fall down)


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

onyx'girl said:


> A front clip harness keeps the dog from pulling, directing them back to you when they try to pull.
> I have the sensations, but that isn't found in stores that I know of. Premier brand would work the same and can be found everywhere.


I'll second that. I absolutely love the front-clip harness! It's not harsh, there's virtually no chance that you're going to accidentally hurt the dog by using it incorrectly and you really don't have the possibility of the dog hurting himself by thrashing around, trying to get out of it, like can sometimes happen with a Halti.

I bought the Easy Walk brand -- found it at PetSmart. It's been a godsend for me, with Gunner. (He never leaves the house without it.) He doesn't generally pull... unless he sees something he wants, like a rabbit, a squirrel, another dog, a cat, etc., etc., etc. These sightings are always accompanied by acute deafness and I'm just not nearly strong enough to hold him when he wants to take off. I put the harness on him and I've never had another problem. It just makes walking so much easier -- takes the stress out of it for me _and_ him.

The only complaint I have is that you have to keep an eye on the harness. The front strap that goes across their chest (where the leash clip is) can loosen up after you've walked for a while. But if you fit it properly and keep an eye on it, it isn't a major problem.


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## lovemybuddy (Oct 26, 2009)

I wouldn't be able to walk Buddy without the Gentle Leader from Premier. It's an instant attitude adjustment for him the second I put it on. Just like gunnersmom, Buddy is fine on a walk until we are charged by another dog, he sees a leaf blowing in the wind (lol), etc., then he's way too strong for me. I need to know that I can completely control him, and the Gentle Leader helps so much.

If you go with the GL, the first time you put it on Sinister, he's going to totally hate it. Put it on and lavish him with treats, then immediately go for a walk. Buddy got very pouty and would just lay down (so dramatic!!) for about the first month that we used it. I would just say "let's go" and go for a walk. Now he's completely used to it and does great. 

Good luck!!!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank you!


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I use a prong. But I use it to train a "walk" command. My adult dogs can all walk nicely on a flat collar when asked.


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## Kruzayn (Jun 9, 2006)

We got a prong collar and it is a night and day difference. He actually loves having the prong put on him because he knows hes going to be able go out for a walk or to the store or training class. It really conveyed the message to him; no corrections needed. He would correct himself when he got to the end of the leash and figured it out in minutes. He walks better on a flat collar even after just a week.


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## Kamahi (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks to LaRen for this thread!

I've been using a regular nylon collar(this doesn't help when he pulls!), a Halti(which actually makes walking him a real headache; it's too big for his face, so every time I tug on the leash a bit, the halti covers his eye and he gets frustrated so he tries to get it off. Also, with the halti on, no one wanted to come anywhere near him; they thought it was a muzzle! ), a Prong collar, and a Martingale collar.

The only problem I have with the prong collar is taking it on/off. It's a real PITA. And the martingale collar doesn't help, because he still pulls when he's wearing it.

So, I'm going to try an easy walk harness, and see how that works.


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## Kruzayn (Jun 9, 2006)

Kamahi said:


> Thanks to LaRen for this thread!
> 
> I've been using a regular nylon collar(this doesn't help when he pulls!), a Halti(which actually makes walking him a real headache; it's too big for his face, so every time I tug on the leash a bit, the halti covers his eye and he gets frustrated so he tries to get it off. Also, with the halti on, no one wanted to come anywhere near him; they thought it was a muzzle! ), a Prong collar, and a Martingale collar.
> 
> ...


Because of the take on/off thing with a prong we have one we use for training that has a live ring and a dead ring, basically your standard prong. For walks and more every day use we got one of these: Herm Sprenger Stainless Steel Pinch Collar-Elite K-9
It only comes with large prongs, but our guy acts the same on both collars. This one doesnt have a live ring, which works well for us. We clip on both rings with the leash just so we arnt pulling against the buckle. We really like it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

One thing that I've found that works, put on a prong and a flat. Use two leashes and the main one used is hooked to the flat, the other on dead rings of the prong. 
When needed put some tension on the prong, but use the flat primarily. Then you can transition to just the flat, leaving the prong on, and eventually removing the prong.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Can you do the flat collar and the harness too?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

abby said:


> i might be killed for this but i was trained with a choke chain and used to use two leads one on the choke and one on the normal collar so the correction was there if needed!


I don't think anyone will 'kill' you for that! :wub: and great it worked for you. THere are quite a few studies out now recommending the prong collars over the old style choke chains though. It's weird how the prong seems so cruel, but the fact it works by pinching the loose skin around the dogs neck rather than choking it appears to cause less (no?) permanent damage.

Prong Collar Info

http://www.fortunatek9.com/Articles/Prong_Collar_Julia_V_McDonough.pdf

How to fit a Prong Collar

ALL training collars work best in conjunction with a great set of dog classes. That way the human on the other end of the leash is learning how to teach the dog using the collar. 

http://www.doganswers.com/collars.htm


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Can you do the flat collar and the harness too?


When I first got Gunner's harness, I used it along with a loose martingale. Someone here suggested that and until I felt confident that he wouldn't slip, or step out of the harness, I used the martingale (hooked to the same leash) as a back-up.
I still do that, occasionally. If we're going for a walk that's _only_ meant to tire him out, I'll hook up both because I don't want to stop to check the harness every so often. Otherwise, I don't usually bother with both anymore. I just check the harness every once in a while, when he stops to smell something.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

I have taken care of pulling using either a prong or a 'choker' collar, and turning and going the other way (accompanied by gripping the leash with both hands and issuing a "pop") -- and that has worked well.

Ive recently watched some of the 'perfect dog' system, and his system uses a prong type collar (google starmark collar) and if the dog puts tension on the leash, a 2 hand leash pop correction then walk a few steps in the opposite direction. He claims most dogs are fixed of pulling within 5 minutes, and in my experience it can be even quicker, depending on how much the dog wants to ignore your location (thus it receives more corrections). 

When doing these methods, best to keep quiet, do not stare at the dog, and not give any "NO" type of marker.. because it's not training a command -- it's just to punish and extinguish pulling. The dog will learn that when on a leash, any time he pulls against you, he receives a punishment. He will then start to pay attention to where you are, so he doesn't end up at the end of the leash pulling against it.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I picked up a front clip harness yesterday for Rocco, to test out for any of the others. It's the Premier one (they have a beautiful green one but I went with black). I have only had a chance to slip it on him twice because I was either working or it was raining but WOW! He's not a huge puller most of the time, and most of the time he walks beautifully, but there are times...and I think that this will help to make him more aware of what he was doing. I am not going to say yet that I think it had a calming effect on him (he's a mix of GSD and...whirling dervish) but it almost seems like it did. 

I think this will be a good choice for Luka, who is much too sweet to use a prong on,  and much too strong not to have a better form of control over him until he is ready to learn leash manners. Right now he is learning people are okay. Trying not to undo what we have done so far! 

Very interesting!


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

I use a very wide Flat bucke collar I think its 2 in wide on Bella. And till she finishes growing a choke chain but that's only for walks the wide collar is all the time. I like it cuz it controls most of the neck and don't dig in. I've always wanted to try haltis or gental leaders. But nver bought one. And there's also the Illusion collar by Ceaer millan. That might be something to check in on too.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Ohhh I forgot to add







this shows he new collar real good I love the control it gives me. But I'm sure it would no work on every dog and they come in black, red, pink, and at one time purple. But when she's grown I plan on getting her a paco leather collar. But it will be a while at 80 to 100 $ a pop.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

If you have a VERY strong dog, I suggest to NOT get the harness with the clip infront, can't remember the actual name for it. Akbar is so strong that that harness is useless. He is such a stubborn dog that if he wants something, he will do anything to get it and that means pulling hard, lol. So he has to wear a prong collar until his pulling is under control, it's a major work in progress, lol.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Luka is very strong, but very sweet and wanting to please. :wub: He just doesn't know anything, has never been taught anything. He's like an 80# puppy. 

I've never seen a tank on a leash, so can't help you Missy.


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## London's Mom (Aug 19, 2009)

My dogs both were trained on the "Gentle Leader", which is like a halter. It does not hurt them, but it makes it extremely easy to keep them next to you while heeling. Once they get used to heeling correctly, you can then change into a regular dog collar. London is now 15 months and has graduated to a regular collar. He heels very well.


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## itisdieter (May 16, 2010)

Great info in this thread, thanks!

My mutt is 95 lbs of muscle, and I cannot wait to try out your tips.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I use prong collars & get great results. I also keep Martingales on each dog and clip onto it for back up(except for at John's house yesterday when I rally needed it) Nadia still pulls so I put the dogs thru the baby step ritual, and the about face one too. I keep them guessing and that keeps their attention on me and walking nicely. I like the baby steps because then they pay CLOSE attention. Someday I might get to graduate them from the prongs to just the Maringale's...


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I am going to check out the Gentle Leader. I can get discounts at my shelter's store.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have seen people using two leads, but that would be too confusing for me. 

I have seen people baiting with a piece of something yummy, but I cannot walk around constantly shoving hot dogs in my dog's nose.

I have seen people rattle coins and click, but I have enough trouble keeping the leash in my hands without the extras. 

I use a martingale to prevent the dog from slipping the collar, and I will stop completely and not follow the dog if they are pulling. I also change directions, and I will stop and have the dog sit after only a couple of steps, take three steps, stop sit, take four steps, stop sit. do rally signs 270 left, 360 to the right. etc, etc. 

It takes longer than using correction collars.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

This might be a dumb question, but have you tried teaching "heel" as a position rather than a movement? When I start my dogs heeling, I do it using treats and a clicker at home. I start by having them sit and then place myself next to the dog, with the dog in the position I want her to be in when heeling, at my knee.

I will then start off, taking one step while luring the dog and saying "heel". Click and treat. Take another step or two, click and treat. If the dog starts to forge ahead, I will tell them, "Wrong - Heel" (wrong being my "that's not right" word for training, as opposed to no). When they're back in heel position, I click and treat and praise "good Heel".

Having a solid "name game" helps as well - I teach my dogs that saying their names means they should look at me, every time, regardless of what they're doing. If I am loosing focus during training, I call their names, then reward them for looking (praise, treat, toy, whatever). When I loose focus when heeling, I will do the same - I call their name and when they look, then I tell them "Heel" and praise/reward for heeling.

While you are working on that at home, to get a solid heel eventually when walking everywhere, you might consider a training collar to control Sinister when you are out for your regular walks. I don't really use the training collars for working on heel at home, but do use them for control of the dog and my own safety when in a public place until I feel our heeling is solid enough to do without the collar or harness.

Any of the training collars, halters, and harnesses that are sold work - some are easier to use than others, some have more of an ability to injure a dog or do some kind of damage. I have used chokes, head halters, harnesses, martingales, and prongs. I've worked with two leashes at a time (one on the regular collar, one on the training device), or one leash with two clip ends to attach to the different collars. I guess what it comes down to is what you are comfortable using, and what works best for your dog.

I can tell you that Abby *HATED* the head halter. Absolutely hated. The way it sat up high on her muzzle and put pressure on her muzzle. It also chafed (she lost some fur on her muzzle in the process) and it just wasn't comfortable for her. Some dogs don't like that pressure around their head. Some dogs don't like the harnesses or the fit is awkward on an individual dog and the harness rubs them uncomfortably.

If you can, try a couple different devices and see what works best for you and your dog. Have someone who knows what they are doing show you how to put them on and adjust them correctly. (Word of warning, many pet store employees don't know. I've seen employees at Petsmart show people to pull a prong collar over a dog's head instead of disconnecting the links.) See which works for you and go with that.

If it comes down to safety - yours and your dog's - and you want something that works well and quick, I would go with a prong. Out of the devices, it is the easiest to use and very effective. But - definitely work on heeling without it and then work on heeling with it there (maybe with a second leash or a tab or traffic handle) until you get a solid, trained heel and don't need to rely on the prong.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I tried the choke chain on Wolfie, but it didn't help. I use the prong collar. One pinch from it, and he hasn't pulled since. He walks nice and calm next to me, but when he really wants to get to something, he won't pull but cries and barks instead.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I ended up buying the Canine Concepts Non-Pull Mesh Harness. I bought it at Petco for $19.99. I absolutely love it :wub: he changed the moment I put the harness on him. He does not pull me anymore. It's like I have a new dog! Our 2.5 mile walks are a delight now. I cant believe the difference. So happy I found it. It's a backsaver!

Here is a picture of what it looks like, it also has padding under the armpits so it doesn't rub.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Glad to hear you've found a harness that works to stop pulling for you. However, please be aware that the harness is not the solution - it's a temporary fix until your dog is trained well enough to walk on only a flat collar.


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## lylas mummy (May 21, 2010)

_*lyla pulls ALOT so we tried a halti, she hated it and kept dragging her nose on the floor eventually making it bleed  *_


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Prong has always worked for me. None of my dogs has ever liked anything around the muzzle or face, so I gave up on Haltis and the like a long time ago. 
___________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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