# Crazy Old Man won't keep his hands outside the fence...



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

He's old - must be 90's by now. He's crazy - wouldn't stop sticking his hand inside the chain link fence to my previous GSD, I found out after the fact. I had lined the whole 125' chain link by hand with the vinyl webbing. He stuck his hand through in the part where the vertical bars are. I had no idea this was happening while I was at work. My previous GSD one day, after 7 years did bite him and pulled his hand thru the opening. According to the man, he was "degloved" and I did see him in a sling for 3-4 months. He said it was his fault, he said he reached his hand in to pet my GSD first, when he normally gives him a treat first. I was floored when he told me what happened. That same day, my dog was missing for the first time ever, when I got home from work. Animal control and neighbor found him freaked out two blocks away. Only time in 14.5 years there was ever a problem.

Anyway, - crazy man is back! He's gotta be in his late 90's now. Caught him in the alley reaching his hand thru the fence trying to pet my new GSD pup this morning! WHAT can I do? If I call law enforcement to request a no trespassing order - what shall I tell them about the past encounter with my previous GSD and this guy (even though he didn't report it?) Weird situation.....


----------



## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

How about not leaving the dog outside unattended? Bring it in and crate it while you are at work. Then no one can mess with the dog through the fence.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Magwart said:


> How about not leaving the dog outside unattended? Bring it in and crate it while you are at work. Then no one can mess with the dog through the fence.


I will NEVER crate my GSD all day. That is absurd. How could you even think of crating a GSD all day while you are at work???

Get a hamster!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LOL Well then.


----------



## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

So leave the dog inside but not crated. Train with the dog to avoid destruction or proof whatever room(s) you would leave the dog in. My dogs are inside all day with food, water, toys, chewies, and do just fine. Also, you will find many, many forum members crate their GSDs and the dogs do just fine with it.


----------



## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I don't think there is anything wrong with crating a dog, in fact, it is more humane than leaving a dog unnattended outside. Consider:

The altercation between that man and your dog.

Your dog escaping and being found blocks away freaked out

A dog escaping and being killed by a car

A malicious neighbor who can't stand your dog's barking and they throw poison over the fence.

Someone who wants to steal your dog

Someone who is sick in the head and poisons your dog (not just neighbors)

A stray dog breaking in and attacking your dog

Inclement weather such as hail, strong winds, tornados, lightning

Your dog trying to break out and getting its head stuck in the fence and asphyxiating

The list can go on and on.

Dogs can be crate train and be held in crates for up to 9 hours. If you are against this, start training your dog to be in e home during the day. If you can't fully trust them, why not use baby gates or some kind of barrier so that they have more space but not enough to roam the full house and get into things.

My neighbors leave their dog outside all day while they are at work. The dog is a pain. He barks incessantly all day. The neighbors probably have no idea what their dog is up to. What's more is he is almost breaking a hole in my fence because he always wants to get to my dogs (luckily I am outside supervising). I am going to have to go tell them soon enough that I need them to fix my fence. Not looking forward to that. Ugh. Please don't be one of these people.


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I rather crate my dog rather than risk something happen to them from an annoying neighbor. I also agree with Barbie.One time during the summer Chloe was sitting outside by herself and some lady drove past our house a couple of times looking at the dog and came back one last time about to take her then saw us come out. After that, I never left her unattended. 
Turned out the lady lived a couple streets down from me too. It's just too risky for me to risk that kind of stuff.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Kahrg4 said:


> So leave the dog inside but not crated. Train with the dog to avoid destruction or proof whatever room(s) you would leave the dog in. My dogs are inside all day with food, water, toys, chewies, and do just fine. Also, you will find many, many forum members crate their GSDs and the dogs do just fine with it.


My pup is fine inside the house when I'm away for an hour or two. I work from home so am not gone for 9+ hours per day. I have a 6' chain link fence for the purpose of being able to have a dog on my property. Since I paid over 200k for this privilege, I would like to be able to have a dog in my yard. This one man reaching his hand thru to a barking GSD into my yard is a problem that I should not have to be on daily guard against. I would rather take care of "his problem" than consider it my problem and have to keep my dog in the house because of a trespasser.

I know that people keep their GSD's crated in the house all day. That is insanely cruel. They should own a hamster not a GSD.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Today it is a 90 year old man. Tomorrow, it can be 6 or 7 year old boys, poking sticks or throwing stones at your dog. Another day it can be a scumbag teenager, who catches the dog and and hangs it up and beats it with a ball bat. Don't say it doesn't happen. It does. 

I prefer to leave dogs with two fences between them and the public, and preferably one being a privacy fence. That might not be practical or possible. But, you might go with some form of e-fence to keep the dog from actually making contact.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> I will NEVER crate my GSD all day. That is absurd. How could you even think of crating a GSD all day while you are at work???
> 
> Get a hamster!


Gee everybody is getting "schooled today!"


----------



## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> My pup is fine inside the house when I'm away for an hour or two. I work from home so am not gone for 9+ hours per day. I have a 6' chain link fence for the purpose of being able to have a dog on my property. Since I paid over 200k for this privilege, I would like to be able to have a dog in my yard. This one man reaching his hand thru to a barking GSD into my yard is a problem that I should not have to be on daily guard against. I would rather take care of "his problem" than consider it my problem and have to keep my dog in the house because of a trespasser.
> 
> I know that people keep their GSD's crated in the house all day. That is insanely cruel. They should own a hamster not a GSD.


I'm sure you are a lovely person stone vintage, and I don't want to seem like I am tearing you down or anything. I just feel as strongly about not leaving a dog in a yard, as you do about not leaving a dog in a crate. The way you feel it is Inhumane and cruel, I feel the same about leaving a dog outside unattended. I feel that your logic is flawed, and I am SURE you think the same about mine. What I would like to say is that just because it is your property, and you have the right to keep your dog outside if you so choose, and the man sticking his hand in, it's his problem, is the thinking that I believe is flawed. I am saying this with all due respect. I understand where you are coming from. I also feel like if I paid for my property, people should respect and leave me and my family/dogs alone. But this is not the world we live in. You have to be proactive for your dog if you love them, and I am sure you do. Do not allow your dog to be in this situation just because it's your right and your property. It strikes me as a little defiant when there is a living, breathing, being depending on your judgement. Please don't just stick to the principal for the sake of it, think about your pup and what is safe for them. I agree with other posters saying it may not just be this man, one day it could be a child, or one day someone could steal your pup.

Thank you for reading.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

selzer said:


> Today it is a 90 year old man. Tomorrow, it can be 6 or 7 year old boys, poking sticks or throwing stones at your dog. Another day it can be a scumbag teenager, who catches the dog and and hangs it up and beats it with a ball bat. Don't say it doesn't happen. It does.
> 
> I prefer to leave dogs with two fences between them and the public, and preferably one being a privacy fence. That might not be practical or possible. But, you might go with some form of e-fence to keep the dog from actually making contact.


That's a good idea. I could put a 2nd (lesser) fence up this summer. Though the risk is down with my new GSD because I'm home all the time. The police (who love my GSD's) say post no signs (because of the law), they originally encouraged me to get a GSD because of where I live and other circumstances. 

This old guy is the only person I've had trouble with in 17 years. I would rather deal with him than have to wall myself in against something that does not exist.....


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Ok while this has been fun, I'll try it my way which tends to be breaking things down and making them simple!

The points everyone has made so far are valid but what got left out is..."you can't control what other people do!" You only have control over your dog and you!

You have to except that reality and work within those confines. So working "within" those confines. Unfortunately it's going to cost you dollars because of other peoples actions but that's usually the case when dealing with morons! 

Train the dog not to go near the fence! A qualified trainer with an E collar could most likely accomplish that in short order! An inner e fence would also acomplish the same goal.

You could run a short double fence around the inner fence (a modified Seltzer) suggestion and teach "on the lawn!" Dog steps over the short fence and it's "NO" on the lawn!!! That's going to take time and "proofing" but it should work.

Or use a prefab kennel and make a run from the house... to the kennel if you chose, I don't know how practical that would be with your home??

If crating all day is out (and I would not do that myself) then those are what I see as alternatives. You can't fight "stupid people" the numbers go against you!


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> Ok while this has been fun, I'll try it my way which tends to be breaking things down and making them simple!
> 
> The points everyone has made so far are valid but what got left out is..."you can't control what other people do!" You only have control over your dog and you!
> 
> ...


It can be done if I save $ for a couple of months. The critical area is a 100' straight run which I think could be done with the 4' ground spikes and the 4' square wire fence.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> It can be done if I save $ for a couple of months. The critical area is a 100' straight run which I think could be done with the 4' ground spikes and the 4' square wire fence.


There you go! If it's any kind of barrier...that makes on the lawn easier!

My other dogs I never realized I had them trained to do that! It was just something I said to them if they were "on the lawn" and I was in the driveway working on the car.

I discovered, I had trained that with Rocky (GSD) by accident. One day we were about three houses away from home, I had told Rocky (off leash) on the lawn! Then I had to stop to tie my shoe, I looked up and Rocky was still proceeding down the sidewalk???

I watched him continue past the house next to ours, go up our driveway and go ..."on the lawn!!" he then turned around to watch for me!

Sometimes they train us!


----------



## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

I had a similar problem in California, one neighbor - an older guy (60's), would put his hands through the window of my apartment and reach in and try to pet my GSD.

It got worse, because he used to be drunk. Wife told him not to do it, he cursed at her. I confronted him, I remember I really did not want to create a scene. But no one insults my woman. I asked him "Did you say "**** you" to my wife?" He said "No! I said ... blah blah blah." Since he took the way out, I walked away. And told him not to do it.

He controlled himself when sober, but when drunk he would come to the window and would shove his hand in.

I spoke to my friend, an attorney. Attorney said I have no liability, since this man is reaching inside my domicile and if he gets hurt by the dog, then its not my dog's fault. He suggested I put up a warning sign on my window about the dog, which I did.

I do not think my dog was ever at risk, but in your case it might be at risk.

In this case: the fault is totally with the intruding neighbor. I have had other cases wherein (especially) older people have tried to run interference with my dog.

I learnt the following lessons:
1) Do not be friendly with neighbors about my dog - especially older people. They take liberties and interfere. 
2) If anyone is taking liberties, confront them, and establish my opinion very firmly. 
3) Video record a conversation, that can be used as evidence. 
4) Police and law is on your side, I called and since all calls are recorded, I stated my name, address, date and time of incident, and had the incident recorded with the local police station. The officer stated if I wanted they can come and talk to the older guy who was intruding. I did not want to escalate, so I asked them to hold off till it got worse.
5) Trained my dog to ignore the older guy. Honestly this was not that hard. 

This is a serious issue, as it can potentially hurt an older human being, and put the dog at risk too. 

Another solution that might work is to stretch chicken wire fence over the metal bars, so that the man cannot push his hands through. If he cuts the wire fence, then it is willful destruction of property and you have a tangible reason to file charges and seek damages.

Please keep us posted as to how you handle this issue.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Stonevintage said:


> This old guy is the only person I've had trouble with in 17 years. _*I would rather deal with him than have to wall myself in against something that does not exist.....*_


What everyone is kindly and respectfully trying to tell you is that these things DO exist if you are living on this earth in the same century as we are. It is not safe to leave your dog outside unattended, no matter where you live, seriously. Anyone who can't see that is living in a bubble. It is up to us to protect our dogs, not the other way around. German shepherds are often a target for the sickos who want bait dogs for their fighting pits, to add to all the other scenarios people have mentioned. These are not things that have come out of our imaginations, they are realities--these things have happened in real life. I hope you seriously consider some of the options mentioned here, because I know you love your dog.

Susan


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Some anecdotal advice.

There once was a young working dog who was, by all accounts, very nice and social in and out of her kennel. She deployed to the middle east with her handler, and they were housed with an outdoor kennel, much like a fenced in yard. There were several times that the handler heard the dog barking angrily out in the kennel, but by the time he got out there, nothing was to be seen.

One day, they were about to go out on a mission, and the interpreter was late getting to the mission brief. The dog and handler were already in the truck, forcing the interpreter to step over the dog when loading up. The dog reached up and bit the man on the inner thigh, shaking violently, producing a horrendous wound on the inside of the man's leg.

During the resulting investigation, it was found that the interpreter regularly harassed the dog by throwing rocks at it through the fence and making aggressive gestures towards the dog while it was confined. The handler had no idea this was happening. The dog went back to the states to find another handler.

Fast forward a couple years, add in lots of self rewarding barking and spinning in the kennels, and you end up with a highly reactive dog that can be a danger to handle, and that pretty much hates most people.

It all worked out in the long run, but it took a lot of counter conditioning and corrections to get where we are today.

The moral of the story is: don't trust the temperament of your dog to other people, who may in fact be morons.


----------



## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Ok I have read some comments that it is more humane or correct to crate a dog all day while you are at work.

I cant believe people think this way.

Any dog or human prefers to interact with his immediate environment.
i.e. people walking by.. Cats outside etc. Rather than be crated up all day.

The dogs are healthier.. The dogs live better lives.
Ill bet the dog probably prefers rocks being thrown at him for 5 minutes rather than been crated for 4-8 hours... and then again at night. The dog can always go somewhere where the rocks cant get him, depending on the property.

I can not say what other people should do with regards to dogs inside outside or crated. However I am with stonevinage here... They have a dog who is outside and is able to be outside during the day. I am sure from a stimulation/fun/lifestyle point of view the dog is better off.

The old man is difficult situation. It may be the highlight of his day and he might be innocent in intention, or he may be utterly confused.

I think best is to speak to him, and get a feel for what is going on.
Speak to maybe a family member.. A son or daughter maybe? Tell them you are worried about him and that it is not safe for him to come and pet your dog in the property and he should not do it.

You could also maybe socialise your dog around him if you wish. He probably is lonely and enjoys being with the dog. Maybe go visit him with the dog. I believe it will certainly enrich the old man's life.

I would not take this the legal route unless you feel you really have to. And even then I dont know what exactly they would do about an old man occasionally trying to pet a dog in fence.

I think he may be either just very confused, or just lonely.
If he is just lonely and bored maybe talk to him about fostering an old shelter dog of his own for a while, so he does not have that need.


----------



## shantinath1000 (Mar 18, 2014)

Hi OP- the problem you face is this- your dog is by definition "an attractive nuisance"- Don't take offense- this is a a legal term (https://www.google.com/search?q=attractive+nuisance+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) basically, even if the other person has crossed over to your property you CAN STILL BE LIABLE. there are a number of good suggestions here- think about them. Even thought you have taken reasonable and prudent steps there are people who won't heed them. Remember- when you make something idiot proof you will be sure to encounter a more accomplished idiot!


----------



## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Stone, you had posted about this person before, I remember the degloved.. As I read along, is it possible that this old man had a shepherd when he was young, thats why he is trying to oet yours? Like Lykoz says, whats the harm in talking to him, he may not be crazy, just lonely..


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

I don't know why some people feel that it is better to leave the dog unattended outside with a neighbor who could potentially hurt the dog. Or even think it's cruel to crate the dog. Seriously? The main point of the crate is to keep your dog safe when you are not there to watch him. As you mentioned you work from home so it doesn't seem like he'd be crated all day long.. Why not only when you can't go outside to watch him? Then whenever your done working, you can play with him outside or whatever so the crazy neighbor can't do anything really?? The only way I would ever leave any of my dogs outside alone for long or short period of times would be if I had a privacy fence with locks. 
I'm totally against what other people are suggesting and I would stay with the crate.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I find it hilarious that someone could presume to know how a dog feels about something without observing the dog.


----------



## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

How about a length of galvanized pipe pounded into the ground in between the gaps with zip ties securing it to the posts to eliminate the gap?You could also use gray pvc electrical conduit(cheaper).


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

David Winners said:


> I find it hilarious that someone could presume to know how a dog feels about something without observing the dog.


:happyboogie::thumbup::groovy::happyboogie::thumbup:

At this moment, I have a dog in the house in a crate. I have a dog in the house in a bedroom, uncrated. I have a dog in a dog run in the yard and a dog that has full access of the yard. And I'm not home! Good Lord!


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Fama will hang out in her crate 90 percent of the time with no door on it.


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

the crate is my best friend.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Seger is letting himself out of his crate. Just opens the door and spends the day as an Interior Decorator.


----------



## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

LOVE the fact that my crated dog(s) is/are safe inside my home!! Makes my life so much more stress free!!


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

If I were in the OP's situation, the secondary fence sounds like the best idea.

Also, as far as the reply regarding "attractive nuisance" which I agree with, as this day and age, idiots are awarded settlements by the courts to a level which is ridiculous. However, going to the length of having 2 fences to protect the idiots from themselves would most likely give the dog owner a much better defense...or am I just being ignorantly optimistic?

My dogs have all had free rein of their "crate" which is also called my house....


SuperG


----------



## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Lykoz said:


> Ill bet the dog probably prefers rocks being thrown at him for 5 minutes rather than been crated for 4-8 hours... and then again at night. The dog can always go somewhere where the rocks cant get him, depending on the property.


I'm afraid I'm just not the kind of owner who would feel comfortable allowing my dog to fend for himself against even hypothetical rock throwing assailants. And certainly not for any length of time. 

-Jax08, I truly did laugh out loud when I read your last post. I can totally see it in my minds eye.


----------



## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

"The old man is difficult situation. It may be the highlight of his day and he might be innocent in intention, or he may be utterly confused.

I think best is to speak to him, and get a feel for what is going on.
Speak to maybe a family member.. A son or daughter maybe? Tell them you are worried about him and that it is not safe for him to come and pet your dog in the property and he should not do it.

You could also maybe socialise your dog around him if you wish. He probably is lonely and enjoys being with the dog. Maybe go visit him with the dog. I believe it will certainly enrich the old man's life.

I would not take this the legal route unless you feel you really have to. And even then I dont know what exactly they would do about an old man occasionally trying to pet a dog in fence.

I think he may be either just very confused, or just lonely.
If he is just lonely and bored maybe talk to him about fostering an old shelter dog of his own for a while, so he does not have that need."
This what I've been thinking, especially about reading words like stupid and dumb. I love my Shepherds, who knows what memories I will have seeing one when I am in my 90's. He lived in such a different age than what we know now. What happened to being neighborly. Years ago my 92 year old neighbor would feed my Lab treats, she was chained outside at times while we were erecting our fence. Scared me to death, I thought she might knock him over and break a hip. I just asked him to put them in a bowl at the age of her range. He was so happy to be around a dog again. The tone of this all makes me sad.


----------



## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> My pup is fine inside the house when I'm away for an hour or two. I work from home so am not gone for 9+ hours per day. I have a 6' chain link fence for the purpose of being able to have a dog on my property. Since I paid over 200k for this privilege, I would like to be able to have a dog in my yard. This one man reaching his hand thru to a barking GSD into my yard is a problem that I should not have to be on daily guard against. I would rather take care of "his problem" than consider it my problem and have to keep my dog in the house because of a trespasser.
> 
> I know that people keep their GSD's crated in the house all day. That is insanely cruel. They should own a hamster not a GSD.


Ok. Here is the deal. When you own a dangerous breed, it is your responsibility to keep both the dog and public safe. It's a responsibility that is yours. It's no different than owning a firearm. You wouldn't leave a loaded gun laying around unattended would you? Same difference leaving a GSD or any other breed along those lines unattended. 

To address the crating being cruel. On what merits does this opinion rule? Yes I crate my dog. All day. It's not cruel. It keeps my dog safe as well as myself. Could there be unintentional consequences? Sure, but no different that leaving my dog unattended to run the yard. Equally bad if you want to get right to the point. 

There is risk in owning one of these dogs, but it is ultimately your responsibility as the owner that controls that situation. It's not within your control of what people on the outside do. Did you ever tell the guy to stop? Sternly? I know I would have and if it doesn't stop, take the next step and involve local authorities.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Most people rationalize their behavior and practices...some to the nth degree. 

Stonevintage's original post described a situation and request for ideas. Of course, for some in here, crating the dog seemed to be the obvious answer for them....I would suggest this is not a viable option for Stonevintage...which was made plainly clear....so why try and pursue/promote that remedy? We all have our personal feelings regarding this practice of confinement, I know I certainly do. I know I am correct in my practice just as others know they are correct in their confinement practices....even though they differ greatly. It's your dog...do as you choose but do not expect others to either agree or come on board with your application.


SuperG


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I agree SuperG and also agree with Ksotto' post.

If the gentleman is near 90 he could have dementia or just be confused. I don't think he is crazy, or and idiot or a moron.

This board can be really harsh at times. Fencing is probably the best solution but a little compassion to an old man would be nice.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I have some senior neighbors - all unrelated to each other. All of them love dogs. One, in particular is in poor health and does not feel able to have a dog of his own. My dogs have been introduced to the neighbors. The seniors love them and my dogs reciprocate. They help to fill a void for these people. 

I feel for the 90 year old man. He obviously loves dogs. At 90, he isn't going to change. Often, people of that age become more childlike. They may be failing cognitively and make poor decisions. Not much can be done about that. If it were me, and my dog was friendly, I would leash the dog, walk out front and introduce the dog to the man. At least that way, the dog knows the man. He knows that you are OK with the man. Now, when the man comes to the fence, the dog will recognize him. Two of my senior neighbors have yards that abut mine. They can reach over the fence, if they want to. Heck, my dogs see the neighbors in the yard and have a tizzy fit until I let them go out and say, "Hi!" 

And no, I never leave my dogs outside unattended. My 94 yo great uncle is WWII vet and had a GSD growing up. He loves coming to my house. Unless, I had a dog I couldn't trust, I wouldn't have the heart to deprive the old folks.


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

It is Stonevintage's decision, but I think she should realize the VERY possible consequences; to deny that these things are possible in this world is to be extraordinarily naive. If she insists that her dog must be outside for the hour or two that she is away, then a double fence, ideally with concrete for no digging, can be her best solution.

Years ago our little community children's zoo decided they had to have a couple wolves. They built a nice compound with plenty of room, nice things for the wolves, and an overhang so they couldn't climb or jump out, concrete so they couldn't dig out. Good chain link fence. 

However, the chain link fence was the ONLY barrier. When I saw it, I immediately went to every zoo worker I could find and told them they had to keep people back from that fence. I had wolf shepherd crosses at that time, and I had done hours of research on wolves and their behavior. I knew there would be people who couldn't resist putting their fingers or hands through that fence, trying to touch the wolves. Nobody listened to me. 

One month after that, a mother took her toddler up to see the "doggies," and the little girl put her hand through the fence. Sure enough, the female wolf bit her hand, and the baby lost a finger. Fortunately she didn't lose her whole hand. There was a lawsuit, naturally, although the zoo tried to claim it was the mother's fault. Didn't work.

Things happen.

Susan


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> It is Stonevintage's decision, but I think she should realize the VERY possible consequences; to deny that these things are possible in this world is to be extraordinarily naive. If she insists that her dog must be outside for the hour or two that she is away, then a double fence, ideally with concrete for no digging, can be her best solution.
> 
> Years ago our little community children's zoo decided they had to have a couple wolves. They built a nice compound with plenty of room, nice things for the wolves, and an overhang so they couldn't climb or jump out, concrete so they couldn't dig out. Good chain link fence.
> 
> ...


Sadly this is happened nearby very recently. Theres a wolf sanctuary not far from me (or stonevintage) in Cocolalla ID and a woman was bitten, similar circumstances.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Jack's Dad said:


> but a little compassion to an old man would be nice.


Agreed...a bit of compassion is always nice.


SuperG


----------



## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

I dont think this is the route to take for the old man... Who I really think just needs some compassion and understanding.

But some people are talking about all the liability, and getting bitten by wolves.

Back in SA every house had several of these of the properties 
















For a bit of humour:






















Not my cup of tea... But for you gun owners:








Add an electric fence, if you will too, with another sign... And a proper height fence...

The point I am making is there are many ways to take away all the problems people bring up here with dogs outside. Weather you want to or it makes financial or practical sense to you is another issue.

Also most pet dogs are not killers... Its hardly the same as a kid sticking his hand into the wolves den.

I guess the arguement against this will be: You knowingly keep blood crazed hounds in a residential area? Well... Its for an image... People think twice before they go to properties with those signs... Nobody can prove in a court of law that the sign is because the dog is dangerous, and not that you are being responsible on worst case scenario, or for security reasons..
Each country is different I guess..

But hey... There is responsible crating... And not so responsible... Then there is responsibly keeping dogs outside, and maybe a bit less responsibly...

Either way.. A lot of the suggestions here are not required at all...
All I am saying is there are a lot one can do to mitigate the 'assumed' risks.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> My pup is fine inside the house when I'm away for an hour or two. I work from home so am not gone for 9+ hours per day. I have a 6' chain link fence for the purpose of being able to have a dog on my property. Since I paid over 200k for this privilege, I would like to be able to have a dog in my yard. This one man reaching his hand thru to a barking GSD into my yard is a problem that I should not have to be on daily guard against. I would rather take care of "his problem" than consider it my problem and have to keep my dog in the house because of a trespasser.
> 
> I know that people keep their GSD's crated in the house all day. That is insanely cruel. They should own a hamster not a GSD.


Are you just venting or asking for a solution? You got the solutions already. People ask for help and when they get it, become defensive about their own management. Weird. Good luck, hope your dog and the people passing by will be safe in the end.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

OK got to the bottom of page one so sorry if these ideas have already been aired:

Stonevintage -- 
"should" is a nice concept. Doesn't match reality does it? We live in this world, not everyone behaves the way we would like. 

Alternative #6 since you don't want to manage your dog, let's try managing the "crazy old man" -- Why not befriend him so far as your dog and he goes? Provide the man with whatever treat you find acceptable, talk to him about a place where he can safely interact with your dog.

Option 7: Talk to the man and express your concern. Tell him you worry about him and about the pup under these circumstances. 

Either of these options you might end up with a friend and end this "battle"

None of us here can solve the issue for you by making this man keep his hands off your dog. He seemingly loves dogs BTW. Why not try to find a way to make this work for you and him? (OK you own your house but it's in this world - some things you can control, others you can't.)


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

or get the old guy a sweet small senior dog.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Lykoz said:


> View attachment 281337
> 
> View attachment 281329
> 
> ...


I was thinking about signage as well....but then thought otherwise. Don't know if you will agree but signs which suggest "killer dog/attack dog/protection dog" etc...when the dog is on the inside of the house has benefit but has potential downside when the dog is outside/visible. My gut somewhat suggests that inevitably some punk kid or older "tough guy" will taunt/provoke the dog more because it supposedly is as the sign advertises....knowing that the fence will keep them safe while they harass the dog.

SuperG


----------



## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

SuperG said:


> I was thinking about signage as well....but then thought otherwise. Don't know if you will agree but signs which suggest "killer dog/attack dog/protection dog" etc...when the dog is on the inside of the house has benefit but has potential downside when the dog is outside/visible. My gut somewhat suggests that inevitably some punk kid or older "tough guy" will taunt/provoke the dog more because it supposedly is as the sign advertises....knowing that the fence will keep them safe while they harass the dog.
> 
> SuperG


I can see the connotation from your point of view as a killer dog.
In SA everyone had signs for dogs (high crime rate)... I even saw people without dogs had a sign for dogs, lol...

The fact of the matter is a floor that is wet without a sign is a health hazard... Throw in a sign, and liability is mitigated...

Now if your dog is not likely to attack, and you have an incident... Well... It is not likely to bite... And you can always say you 'had a sign' warning people.
To be honest its nice for people you dont know to think your dogs are dangerous. It is part of the point. The only time you may run into an issue is if you advertise a heavily agressive dog, and then people see him running around the neighbourhood loose.. But, that should not be happening anyways.. And again if it did happen once, it does not mean the dog, will run out and just attack.
I think it would not be too hard to prove in court, that the sign is for safety... (Beware the Dog I think is the best sign- It is just letting people know he is there, and there is something to "be aware" about - It kind of implies the dog may bite - without actually saying it.). 

For you to get in trouble.. They would have to prove that as a 'reasonable man' he saw the sign, and thought the 'beware the dog' sign meant careful my dog likes to lick you and roll in the mud...
Also from the other side, you are not admiting that the dog is nutter... Just acknowledging that the dog 'may' bite... (It's easy to prove that any large breed dog could possibly, potentially bite, with serious implications... I mean that is common sense.)

If your dog is likely to attack... Well.. You had a sign and let them know, to not do so would be negligent.
I think signs should be mandatory for outside dogs. 

I included many signs.. I included some funny ones just for a bit of humour to the post. I would never use a funny sign... That would as you say incentivise people to act like little boys... Just beware dog - will do... People get the point.

Another important thing for outside dogs I believe, is that dogs should have a place to get away from somebody harassing them... Maybe back-side of a yard, or just a garage... Or a kennel.
Even partially outside dogs (when you are away from home) should always have a place of shelter too.

I dont think dogs are stupid.. They interact with things outside their gate.. But at the same time, if they feel threatened or uncomfortable they wont stay there... To be honest I have never had a dog that felt threatened or scared from anyone outside the gate... But if it did reach that point, they would just leave the gated-visual area.

I guess it is not such an issue when everyone has dogs outside. In SA you moved quickly past the houses with dogs... One dog would bark, and the rest would start.. 
Different lifestyle.. Nobody liked loitering that side.

Now in europe, its different. There are kids that play on the street. There are less dogs. Sometimes kids can be nuisances with dogs. But the dogs dont just go psycho.. They chose to be there... They can always go hide outback if they dont want to be there.

The only threat I guess is a psycho poisoning the dogs because he wants to sleep during working hours...


----------



## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

If this guy is around 90 yrs old and is acting irrational again I hope something like dementia or alzheimer's is setting in. It sounds like he maybe learned his lesson from the first time around seeing as you indicated no other incidents for 14.5 years. Thus this issue arising again might be a warning sign of his mental status. Maybe check up on him if you two are on speaking/friendly terms and see if anything else about him is unusual. Seeing as you are so compassionate about not crating a dog maybe show some compassion for this "crazy old guy" and look in on him and HIS well being.


----------



## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Thank you lykoz for pointing that out. I have a friend who had two dogs that were poisoned by a neighbor. They ofcourse died. She made the mistake of leaving them outdoors during the day while they were at work. I'm not sure why they were poisoned, but I venture to guess they were barkers and someone got fed up OR someone just is a sicko and gets off of murdering animals. Either way, this is a reality STONEVINTAGE and it happens. We should protect our babies, and not let crazy people do things to them just because we think they should have a yard during the day while we are at work. If you work from home, then I am not sure why this is an issue. Sounds like issue is resolved, the dog can stay inside with you during the day ? And can go outside while you are there to supervise it?


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

You _might_ be able to talk the old man into not sticking his hand through your fence. You _might_ be able to train your dog not to approach the fence no matter what. But those potential solutions may not work, and even if they do, they may take time. And in the meantime? You risk the man getting injured again, and your dog being taken away and euthanized. Is it really worth it to you to take that chance?

A second fence inside the first fence will definitely solve the problem, but could be expensive. And I understand that you don't want to leave him crated in the house, and maybe he can't be trusted to leave him uncrated in the house. An easy and not too expensive option would be a free standing, secure kennel inside your yard - something like this: American Kennel Club 4 ft. x 8 ft. x 6 ft. Uptown Premium Dog Kennel-308606AKC - The Home Depot

Your dog could still be loose in the yard when you're out there with him, but when he needs to be unattended, you put him in the kennel.


----------



## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Thank you lykoz for pointing that out. I have a friend who had two dogs that were poisoned by a neighbor. They ofcourse died. She made the mistake of leaving them outdoors during the day while they were at work. I'm not sure why they were poisoned, but I venture to guess they were barkers and someone got fed up OR someone just is a sicko and gets off of murdering animals. Either way, this is a reality STONEVINTAGE and it happens. We should protect our babies, and not let crazy people do things to them just because we think they should have a yard during the day while we are at work. If you work from home, then I am not sure why this is an issue. Sounds like issue is resolved, the dog can stay inside with you during the day ? And can go outside while you are there to supervise it?


Look never had a problem with 8 dogs over many years.

In SA people poisoned not so much because they were agitated.. But because they targeted a property... But when I say targeted.. I mean they break in, and time the attack, with at least 4 attackers.... Heavily armed.. AK's (Big guns - I dont know my guns). So they might poison the dogs, and loiter, and wait for somebody to enter property, and they cut him in the driveway..
This is ussally to make a big score... I.e. they identified a car they liked, or that he brings in cash from the shop at home.. Etc...

In Cyp I am not worried about that at all really... More worried about the psycho's that dont care for the life of a dog...

At the end of the day, each place, each country is different.

Everyone makes their own considerations and own decisions about the risks...
Suffice to say, it is not as much of a danger as people like to think..

An opportunist theif would rather go to the house next door that walk with poison around the neighbourhood.

Poisoning dogs for crime, usually indicates premeditation... And as cruel as it is to say that... Driving into your driveway without the dogs coming to greet you and bark... Is a big red flag, and that you should keep driving or at least be very visual. It could save somebody's life... It is kind of like a bomb sniffing dog.. There are risks... Now for a dog that is just outside... Well those risks are really overemphasized... and frankly almost non-existant in most cases....
Similarly my security considerations, for most countries, are overemphasised(not for SA)... But again.. People take ideas to extremes.

Truth is somewhere in the middle...

Its really not such a big risk... I personally have known many people with outside dogs, and I cant recall a single poisoning of such dogs... (although I have heard stories many times from a friend of a friend)

In Cyp on the other hand... I have removed poisoned pig ears and other body parts, on several occasions on popular dog walking paths...
There is actually more risk for me personally when I walk my dogs, or let them run free somewhere else, than I fear in my own property... I never turn my back for second incase they pick something up to eat it. I dont like areas with too many trees and places where I cant see what is going on.. etc.


----------



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> You _might_ be able to talk the old man into not sticking his hand through your fence. You _might_ be able to train your dog not to approach the fence no matter what. But those potential solutions may not work, and even if they do, they may take time. And in the meantime? You risk the man getting injured again, and your dog being taken away and euthanized. Is it really worth it to you to take that chance?
> 
> A second fence inside the first fence will definitely solve the problem, but could be expensive. And I understand that you don't want to leave him crated in the house, and maybe he can't be trusted to leave him uncrated in the house. An easy and not too expensive option would be a free standing, secure kennel inside your yard - something like this: American Kennel Club 4 ft. x 8 ft. x 6 ft. Uptown Premium Dog Kennel-308606AKC - The Home Depot
> 
> Your dog could still be loose in the yard when you're out there with him, but when he needs to be unattended, you put him in the kennel.



This is a good solution and probably a lot less financially than another fence.
They have a 10x10 at Tractor Supply and also Costco at certain times of the year. They are about $150.00 more than the one Cassidy's Mom has shown but much larger.


----------



## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> This is a good solution and probably a lot less financially than another fence.
> They have a 10x10 at Tractor Supply and also Costco at certain times of the year. They are about $150.00 more than the one Cassidy's Mom has shown but much larger.


The property can also sometimes be separated internally. i.e. gated fence doors where the dog is separated from the front perimeter, or where visitors have access..

Many solutions. Speaking to the man however and showing him respect too, is still the best option.
Never treat an elder man like a child. I see way too many people doing this too often.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jack's Dad said:


> They have a 10x10 at Tractor Supply and also Costco at certain times of the year. They are about $150.00 more than the one Cassidy's Mom has shown but much larger.


Dogs really don't need any more space than this. We have a chain link pen in our garage for the dogs when we're gone that's closer to 8 x 8, perhaps even a bit smaller on one side. Here it is:










They do have a dog door from the pen into a dog run down the side of the house for pottying, but our yard is completely surrounded by a wood fence, and there are chain link gates at either end of the run - one inside the gate to the yard from the front of the house, creating a space for our garbage and recycling bins, and, at the other end to separate the run from the rest of the yard. As you can see, it's a long, narrow space:


----------



## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> Also most pet dogs are not killers... Its hardly the same as a kid sticking his hand into the wolves den.


Lykoz, it's not that I think that Stonevintage has a vicious wolf. But GSDs are notoriously territorial. Perhaps the old man will not get bitten. However, every dog has its limit, and there could easily be others who could provoke him. Just not a chance I would take, I love my dogs too much to have them taken away and put to sleep because I didn't care enough to ensure that no 'accident' could happen. The lesson to be taken from the true story about the wolf is that you cannot control humans. You CAN control how much access they have to your dogs.

Susan


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think it is prudent to have two layers of fence between my dog and the rest of the world when I am not outside with my dog. Agree with those who suggested it.

The 90+ year old guy needs to be perceived as a child (but treated as in adult) in that he may have some dementia or not be as capable as a typical adult of common sense. 

I assume the neighborhood kids can reach into my fence even though it is privacy shadowbox AND I have a nice dog with no temperament problems. In the end, dogs are dogs and even with the best of them, bad stuff can happen.


----------



## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

KathrynApril said:


> If this guy is around 90 yrs old and is acting irrational again I hope something like dementia or alzheimer's is setting in. It sounds like he maybe learned his lesson from the first time around seeing as you indicated no other incidents for 14.5 years. Thus this issue arising again might be a warning sign of his mental status. Maybe check up on him if you two are on speaking/friendly terms and see if anything else about him is unusual. Seeing as you are so compassionate about not crating a dog maybe show some compassion for this "crazy old guy" and look in on him and HIS well being.


OOPS! I meant to say "If this guy is around 90 yrs old and is acting irrational again I hope something like dementia or alzheimer's *ISN'T* setting in.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Even with a double fence your dogs are at the mercy of everything that's out side the first fence.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Wow, this post really took off. Thank you all for your input. I am calmer today - sorry for the rant yesterday and thank you for your patience.

One of the hardest things I had to do last Summer was tell the little old man that Smoke had died. He's a very nice guy, walks all over the neighborhood (keeps healthy that way). That man was friends with my dog for 7 years before the attack and for 7 years after the attack. No one knows why the attack happened and I never knew the little man was putting his hand through the fence all the time until he told me.

We do keep an eye out for him. Our postal lady has a close watch on all the seniors in her delivery area. She is the one most likely to find us should we depart this earth unattended in our homes. She has been on our route for 15 years and lets you know about if you worry her by a change in your habits. 

I never dreamed he would start doing this again with my new GSD Summer because he stopped doing it after the attack. He would still approach the fence but stay on his side to say his hello's. I feel comfortable talking to him, but I fear it would go in one ear and out the other. He never attempts to to pet when someone is in the yard, he knows he shouldn't be doing it. 

I'm going to attach some rigid vinyl barrier panels to the vertical fence openings today. It has only one inch openings to keep hands out. I think the most affordable way will be to extend the fence up to 8 feet on the alley by mounting the 1" wire fencing across the top. It's something I can do myself too. It's along the alley side so I don't care how ugly it looks. 

Crime where I live is extremely low. We have no gangs, dog poisoners or dog thieves. Last year we had 2 DUI's on New Years Eve and that was big news.


----------



## shantinath1000 (Mar 18, 2014)

I hope on one took offense at my "along comes a better idiot comment- it was not to imply that the man was an idiot- it was to point out that no matter the precautions one takes there will be people that will find a way to circumvent the precautions. I too feel for the old man- I think seeing the dog might be a highlight of his day. I like the idea of introducing the the man to the dog and setting it up so he can spend time with the dog in a supervised way. This would be more work for the OP but a kindness to the old man and a mitigation of risk for everyone.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

In fairness to the crate suggestions, it was the get a hamster comment which threw the thread asunder.

Have you ever seen what a hamster can do to a paper towel tube when frustrated?!

Dangerous business.









SuperG said:


> Most people rationalize their behavior and practices...some to the nth degree.
> 
> Stonevintage's original post described a situation and request for ideas. Of course, for some in here, crating the dog seemed to be the obvious answer for them....I would suggest this is not a viable option for Stonevintage...which was made plainly clear....so why try and pursue/promote that remedy? We all have our personal feelings regarding this practice of confinement, I know I certainly do. I know I am correct in my practice just as others know they are correct in their confinement practices....even though they differ greatly. It's your dog...do as you choose but do not expect others to either agree or come on board with your application.
> 
> ...


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> Stone, you had posted about this person before, I remember the degloved.. As I read along, is it possible that this old man had a shepherd when he was young, thats why he is trying to oet yours? Like Lykoz says, whats the harm in talking to him, he may not be crazy, just lonely..


The only reason I called him crazy was not because of his age, it's because he's doing the same exact thing again that caused him so much pain and injury. I would call anyone crazy that repeated the same exact scenario and expected different results.

I talked with him at length several times briefly in the last few years. He has clear moments and foggy ones. He told me he calls all the dogs in the neighborhood "Smokey" (which was my previous GSD's name). As a result of what I witnessed yesterday, he cannot be expected not to repeat this same thing again. There is a danger and a liability in what he is doing and I can't stake my property and everything I have being sued away from me should he "forget" and the unthinkable happens. 

I do know many seniors his age that could certainly be trusted not to expose themselves to danger like this a second time, but, unfortunately, he is not one of them. I do not feel comfortable introducing Summer to him outside the fence until she is older and more settled. Right now, she is 70 pounds of big puppy and one errant jump could severely injure him.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Does he have family? If things are slipping, sometimes family membes are in denial and hearing things like this in a kind and gentle way may be enough for them to consider alternate plans.


----------



## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok. Is there a way you can set up a decorative barrier on the outside of the fence? Something along the lines of a flowerbed that may discourage this guy from approaching in the first place? Or even do it along the inside of the fence so the dog cannot get up next to the fence?

Or can you just run a new privacy fence along the current chain link you have?


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

In my opinion, the old guy is the least of your worries. If he can reach through your fence, so can anybody else - possibly someone with bad intentions. I don't know how old your pup is. My girl is 6 months. She can be a wild child, but she sits, when I tell her. I would probably put her in a down, for a meeting with a frail person.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Too bad you can't wire your fence. I mean, If you put the fence up on concrete, and then used wood connected to the concrete, as an insulator, and then the fencing without a connection to the ground, you could wire the chain link to a friendly little buzz for the first week or so, and then shazaaam!!! A good bolt of lightning when you hit that fence will stop anyone from ever putting a hand through it, and the only sign you would need is, CAUTION -- Electric Fence. 

Ah well, so we return to the real world. I kind of agree about not crating a dog all day. It does depend on the dog, Babsy or Jenna would be fine for 8 or 10 hours. But most of them need to stretch their legs and pee and all that good stuff. An 5x10 kennel from Tractor supply is a bit small for a GSD -- my opinion. 10x10 is better, and 10x 15 better yet. Those kennels come in 5' panels, and you get 5 panels and a gate panel for approx. $300. You can buy extra panels for about $75, so 4 panels being $300 would get you the 10'x15' but might as well just buy two of the doc bobs for that. $600 will get you a kennel 6' high that will be 10'x20' or 15'x 15'. If you are brave and use the side of your house or garage, it can be larger or you can just buy the one, and make it long and skinny or pretty square. 

And it will be within your yard, so if you don't latch it one day, or the dog digs to China and finds he has a way out, you have a second line of defense. 

Having kennels within my fenced yard makes me completely stress free about my dogs at home. I have cheap privacy fencing as part of the fencing. But it is fine. It is not there to keep the dogs in, it is there to prevent anyone from sticking a hand through the fencing of my dogs kennels and being indignant when what they get is not licks. 

It is there to keep the dogs out of sight and out of the minds of kids who might not have anything better to do today than torment a fenced dog. It is there so my neighbors can walk through their yard without a chorus of WHO ARE YOU!?! and all its variations spoken in Canine.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I never meant to imply that I would be leaving my dog outside when I was not home. She is in the house when I go out and she does not destroy it or get into trouble. Neither did my previous GSD though he did spend his days in the yard and attached shop when I was gone, he definitely preferred it where she seems happy in the house so far. 

This happened yesterday when I had the backdoor open so she could come and go while I was sitting 10 feet away on the computer. Her barking is what brought me to to the back door immediately to see what was going on and there he was. 

As far as someone taunting or throwing rocks at my dog while she is in the yard, there is little chance of that. 10 feet across the alley is the back door of a $$$ Italian food restaurant and there are several people there most of the day until 11:00 at night. Their back door is almost always open because it's hot in the back kitchen/work area. They just have a screen door. They know me and my dog and keep an eye out for us and I for their business when they are closed. Otherwise that would be a concern.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

You eat at the Italian restaurant ??

SuperG


----------



## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

selzer said:


> Too bad you can't wire your fence. I mean, If you put the fence up on concrete, and then used wood connected to the concrete, as an insulator, and then the fencing without a connection to the ground, you could wire the chain link to a friendly little buzz for the first week or so, and then shazaaam!!! A good bolt of lightning when you hit that fence will stop anyone from ever putting a hand through it, and the only sign you would need is, CAUTION -- Electric Fence.
> 
> Ah well, so we return to the real world. I kind of agree about not crating a dog all day. It does depend on the dog, Babsy or Jenna would be fine for 8 or 10 hours. But most of them need to stretch their legs and pee and all that good stuff. An 5x10 kennel from Tractor supply is a bit small for a GSD -- my opinion. 10x10 is better, and 10x 15 better yet. Those kennels come in 5' panels, and you get 5 panels and a gate panel for approx. $300. You can buy extra panels for about $75, so 4 panels being $300 would get you the 10'x15' but might as well just buy two of the doc bobs for that. $600 will get you a kennel 6' high that will be 10'x20' or 15'x 15'. If you are brave and use the side of your house or garage, it can be larger or you can just buy the one, and make it long and skinny or pretty square.
> 
> ...


Electric fencing is viable... There are companies that can install professionally.
Also you have got to love signage....

Often some wire attached to an electric fence sign.... Does the trick...
Most people won't touch and test it out  no need for any voltage at all


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Electric fence....well **** use that Invisible fence...if you can find it....it's really hard to find......


SuperG


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

SuperG said:


> You eat at the Italian restaurant ??
> 
> SuperG


Man I wish, too pricey for me. My laundry hanging outside soaks up the scent of all the grilling garlic real well though.

I don't think it's allowable to have an electric fence in the city guys. Besides, if the lil ol' man can't be trusted to remember to keep his hands outside of my fence, how many times would he shock himself?


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

shantinath1000 said:


> I hope on one took offense at my "along comes a better idiot comment- it was not to imply that the man was an idiot- it was to point out that no matter the precautions one takes there will be people that will find a way to circumvent the precautions. /QUOTE]Oh I don't think anyone took offense?
> 
> I always say idiot "resistant" and not idiot "proof" myself because...there is always that one guy!


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> shantinath1000 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope on one took offense at my "along comes a better idiot comment/QUOTE]Oh I don't think anyone took offense?
> ...


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Chip18 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if nobody else will be offended by your comment...I'm willing..just taking one for the team...
> ...


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Electric fence....well **** use that Invisible fence...if you can find it....it's really hard to find......
> 
> 
> SuperG


Er...wouldn't I have to put a receiver collar around the little ol man's neck to keep him out for the invisible fence to work??


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Er...wouldn't I have to put a receiver collar around the little ol man's neck to keep him out for the invisible fence to work??


....I haven't read the manual but it sounds plausible.


SuperG


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

SuperG said:


> ....I haven't read the manual but it sounds plausible.
> 
> 
> SuperG


Yes you would that's where the receiver is! And standard cattle fence you can turn the voltage way down but if the guy has a "paceMaker....


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

SuperG said:


> ....I haven't read the manual but it sounds plausible.
> 
> 
> SuperG


Well, OK then, I suppose I could sneak up behind him in the alley and attach it around his neck before he has a chance to turn around. There's one right across the street at the thrift store, has the collars, wire and everything including the brochure on how to attach and test the collar......


----------



## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

My solution to this is line up that portion of your fence with 1cm chicken wire. 

I had the same problem as you. I live in the corner house beside a road junction in the suburbs and there is a really long wall surrounding that side of my house. Traffic there is brief when people go to or come home from work and they know my dog is very friendly so they would stretch their hand inside and pet my dog. But I didn't like the idea of her socialising with other people on her own without any of my family to oversee it, also as she gets older and becomes territorial, there might be a risk of her biting hands that cross the fence. So to avoid any unintentional scenarios, I lined the sections of my fence where the hands could go through with chicken wire.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

nezzz said:


> My solution to this is line up that portion of your fence with 1cm chicken wire.
> 
> I had the same problem as you. I live in the corner house beside a road junction in the suburbs and there is a really long wall surrounding that side of my house. Traffic there is brief when people go to or come home from work and they know my dog is very friendly so they would stretch their hand inside and pet my dog. But I didn't like the idea of her socialising with other people on her own without any of my family to oversee it, also as she gets older and becomes territorial, there might be a risk of her biting hands that cross the fence. So to avoid any unintentional scenarios, I lined the sections of my fence where the hands could go through with chicken wire.


That's exactly what I've decided on. Not the chicken wire but the kind that is a bit stronger that has about the 1/2 or 1/4" squares. We used to make rabbit cages and bait traps with it. It's galvanized, fairly lightweight but more rigid than the chicken wire. I forgot that there's about a 2 foot drop off on the alley side so I may be able to get by with the 2 foot width, that would bring it up to 8 feet plus on the alley.


----------



## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Whatever you're using do make sure the mesh is high quality and smoothened out. Dogs will attempt to claw the wire mesh and if they have sharp edges, they can cut themselves on accident. Same with humans and some will just try to push their sausage fingers through and when they remove their fingers blood might spill if they aren't careful.


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

nezzz said:


> Whatever you're using do make sure the mesh is high quality and smoothened out. Dogs will attempt to claw the wire mesh and if they have sharp edges, they can cut themselves on accident. Same with humans and some will just try to push their sausage fingers through and when they remove their fingers blood might spill if they aren't careful.


Thanks - I found about a 24"x8' length of it out in the shop. It's already covering the area where (l o man) breached yesterday (though not tacked down yet). It has finished edges that form loops and the wire feels smooth with no rough spots. I think 3 rolls of that and I'm in business!


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Loops of razor concertina wire on the rail might add some effect as well 

SuperG


----------



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Loops of razor concertina wire on the rail might add some effect as well
> 
> SuperG


We had that down in the Keys at a place on 5 acres we were renting. Didn't need it, the Rottweiler that paroled the fence line had something better in his mouth:wild:


----------

