# How to know a dog is happy?



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I always wonder this when I bring a new dog in. I watch all of the interactions and try to determine if this home, my home is the best place for them. I'm the kind of owner that takes the responsibility of owning a dog seriously. The dogs welfare is always the most important thing. I struggled for a while with Batman, adjusted things and things got better, not perfect but very manageable. Working on his obedience(recall and leave it) has saved his butt more then once. I think he is starting to finally get it. Then enters George. George has fit in nicely since day one. He adjusts his play to whatever level the dog he is playing with. He has brought a sense of peace into the pack with his demeanor. He is an all around good dog. I got him at a healthy weight for his leg, he isn't round but now has a waistline. I brushed him today and he loved it. He is learning basic obedience well. 

The only issue is that he doesn't like being contained and barks and barks. He can be a little destructive, it's not bad but it's there. They have set up an appointment with a behaviorist to work on this. They asked me if I wanted to adopt him, but I was taken back when they told me that didn't behave like that(barking and fighting the power(me) in two of the previous temp homes). This dog follows me everywhere, sleeps with me and just wants attention. I'm just wondering why he didn't behave this way previously? His last residence had 10 dogs, so it's not the big pack thing. He seems to be very content and he is very comfortable from what I can tell. Once I know he won't chew anything he will not be contained. 

I just want what is best for him. If anything I think he might be to attached to me, he bonded with me really fast. I do not mind adding him to the pack permanently. I like the peace he has brought as a whole. He was accepted into the pack within minutes without any issues.

My confusion is that he didn't act up with the barking elsewhere. I'm sure we can fix that, but it makes me wonder. Does that make sense? Or am I just freaking out because of what they said about his behavior previously? Quite frankly I'm used to having them having issues elsewhere and they never surface with me or in my home. It has thrown me for a loop. I don't want him to ever feel any pain and to always be loved no matter where he is. I'm not particularly fond of dogs moving from house to house either. I feel that can cause issues and be hard on a dog.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

From everything I've read from you, I seriously cannot imagine a dog NOT being happy in your home. I don't know how you do it! Best of luck if you decide to keep George!


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

So is the question, would he be happier in a different home if you didn't adopt him? 

I admire the generosity in your heart and opening your home to another pooch. If it were me, I'd be hesitant to add George while Batman was still working on fitting in. Also, how many in your pack have yet to hit maturity? Is there any possibility of changes in compatibility once the hormones kick up?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Kahrg4 said:


> So is the question, would he be happier in a different home if you didn't adopt him?
> 
> I admire the generosity in your heart and opening your home to another pooch. If it were me, I'd be hesitant to add George while Batman was still working on fitting in. Also, how many in your pack have yet to hit maturity? Is there any possibility of changes in compatibility once the hormones kick up?


The only one that would be a concern with the maturity thing is Midnite, he can sometimes attempt to be a bully, but he is almost three. I'm confident that the rest are where they are and will stay there temperament wise. None of them have changed once maturity hit. They slow down with the playing but the temperaments remain the same. 

The small issues I was seeing with Batman involved Midnite. We were already moving forward in a positive direction and George has actually put a stop to all of it. Midnite doesn't bother with Batman at all anymore. George plays well with both Batman and Midnite. He is almost like a buffer. Batman doesn't have the need to harass Midnite because he is playing at his level with George. It's weird because people wouldn't think, I know I didnt, that adding a dog could actually help and make things better, not worse.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Morning, you say he barks and carries on when caged, and obviously away from you.. You say he is attached to you.. I am no expert, but do you think this may be the problem? He just wants to be with you or his pals. How destructive is he and when? When Stella was a pup, I used to contain her and Lucky in the den, boy..she was destructive! We went through phones, remotes like bonkers; she ate a couch and chair.. The day Lucky passed, I gave her freedom while I went to work..she stopped being destructive that day..

George sounds like he is truly fitting in.. I wish you luck in whatever you decide!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Debanneball said:


> Morning, you say he barks and carries on when caged, and obviously away from you.. You say he is attached to you.. I am no expert, but do you think this may be the problem? He just wants to be with you or his pals. How destructive is he and when? When Stella was a pup, I used to contain her and Lucky in the den, boy..she was destructive! We went through phones, remotes like bonkers; she ate a couch and chair.. The day Lucky passed, I gave her freedom while I went to work..she stopped being destructive that day..
> 
> George sounds like he is truly fitting in.. I wish you luck in whatever you decide!


I also think it's because he is away from me and the others, but I don't understand why he didn't do that with the previous owners or packs?

I'm afraid he will eat the couch, that is the only thing that concerns me, I can easily work through and replace anything else. He takes the blankets off the couch, eats the sticky stuff under the area rugs and has moved the smaller area rugs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Oh and he knocks down the gate to get upstairs with the cats. He is good with them but I don't feel comfortable with Midnite being able to get up there, which he will if the gate is down.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

You are fostering him, correct? 

My fosters have been happy here. But, when I get great updates of the things they do with their people, who tell me how this dog has made their life better or complete, we are all happy. 

I've adopted out dogs with special physical and behavior needs, so that doesn't seem to matter, in fact, I like it because it cuts through the less devoted to dogs people and gets right to the ones who will really go the distance for the dog. 

It sounds like he is the kind of dog that will make someone very happy, and you may find a home that will give him a great life, and allow you to foster again.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Ilombardo... based on your posts.

If they live with you Ilombardo... I can honestly say they are happier than 99% of other homes they may go to.

I would say a dog you own may be unhappy, is because you own too many and they might not get along... 
i.e. if a dog is being victimised by other dogs and is just not fitting in/is in danger.
But you already know this... You always show this in your posts...

Any dog you chose to add to your home will be much happier than what it was before...

So I think its just a matter of choosing the right dogs for your 'ecosystem'...
You already have so much on your plate... So introducing a dog with high volatility will take away time from your current 'pack'..
I dont know maybe you enjoy the challenge...

I think if you consider how the dog fits in to your ecosystem, and how happy you are in having that dog... That will translate to the dog being happy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

He is just so dang sweet



He has been brought back into foster twice due to his leg issue, which is so very sad for him and the people that couldn't handle his disability. I just can't imagine how much pain he has felt in his short life. 

I have to admit...he is quite spoiled here and an absolute joy to have around. 

No more fostering for me. My son says I have to delete all rescue groups from my contacts


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think you need to ask yourself a deeper question: why do you feel the need to collect all these dogs?


Fostering is about the dog. You get a dog, you rehabilitate it to the best of your ability, and you let it go on to have a better life than when you found it.

If you take in an animal with the intent to foster and find that you cannot let it go, despite the fact that you are at capacity and it makes things difficult for the current dogs and the foster, then you have to ask yourself if you are really fostering, or if you are fulfilling some deep psychological need.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

llombardo said:


> He is just so dang sweet
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is a shame if he continues to get bumped here to there, so sad. However, you have to do is best for George, not for you... If George could be placed in an ideal home, example with a companion dog, an elderly couple that are home 24/7, could you let him go...

We can't make up your mind..only you can. But, I will say he looks at you with contentment, love and trust in his eyes..


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Is he a candidate for an FHO or any other kind of treatment that the rescue could fundraise for? 

Because honestly, I have had many sweet fosters, many fosters who fit in great here, but who are also equally and extremely happy in their forever homes, and I was able to help more dogs by adopting them out. I basically adopt to people who treat their dogs the way I treat mine, no matter how long it takes to find that. 

And I also felt badly with the idea of keeping a foster that would do well with most people - those aren't the kind of dogs I should have as my own dogs. Which was why I would wait until the right match happened, and the dogs do great.

ETA - this shows what I am saying so much better http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...update-photos-rescue-adopters-slideshows.html I have kept fosters, I have a lot of dogs, too, but I enjoy watching the majority of fosters live their lives from a distance. Those pics are from many, many foster homes. Mine are cutest.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Lykoz said:


> Ilombardo... based on your posts.
> 
> If they live with you Ilombardo... I can honestly say they are happier than 99% of other homes they may go to.
> 
> ...


I do think it's about picking the right dog at the right time. I seem to have a knack for that. The only one that I didn't really choose as my own is Batman, but I felt responsible for my Dad failing him. Once I accepted him and who he was, we started making progress. I'm still upset with my dad though. It isn't the dogs fault at all. 

I would never put any of them in danger. I accept the challenges that come with a multi dog household. I systematically work through any issues if they come up. 

I'm always learning, that is for sure


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Lisa,

I am writing this before I read any of the other posts, and it is my first thought, just something to consider.

I am thinking that perhaps at the other fosters, he didn't feel secure enough to really show himself, let down his hair, so to speak. Didn't have a lot of confidence. The barking may be a part of his personality (and never shown so never addressed) because he was just trying to fit in without attracting too much attention, do you know what I mean? I don't know the expert way to express what I'm trying to say, and just going on past experience here, so I may be totally off. 

My Orick came to me pretty damaged, by his breeder, then from the woman who rescued him, neglect not of her doing, beat up 24/7 by another dog. When I first talked to his rescuer about him, she told me about his personality, etc., also that he was 'not a barker'.

He trusted me immediately, bonded immediately, and after he was home it was like a rose opening, one petal at a time, slowly. And the barking? He alerts to every little sound from outside, he growls when he plays, he's very vocal, and very confident. It was after he was sure he was home, HIS home, that all this confidence manifested (it is not fear-related barking for sure). (We are working on some of the barking, lol)

Do you know anything about George's past, and why he went to 2 other fosters? That seems odd. Also, what do you mean by "barking and fighting the power(me)"?

Susan


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> I think you need to ask yourself a deeper question: why do you feel the need to collect all these dogs?
> 
> 
> Fostering is about the dog. You get a dog, you rehabilitate it to the best of your ability, and you let it go on to have a better life than when you found it.
> ...


I initially inquired about adopting him when he first got into rescue, but the other people got him because they were first. He was brought back and then adopted out again. I then found Apollo. Then George was brought back again. 

So my original intent was to adopt a month before I got him. I have taken in so many dogs and placed them that I can't even count. I have no problem letting them go to the right home. 

I don't feel like I collect dogs or its anything psychological at all. I would easily have 30 of them if that was the case. I really enjoy all of them. I often wonder why people don't have more then one if they are decent owners. 

I have always had multiple dogs. Even growing up we had 6-7 at a time, so it's just the way I'm used to. I get it from my mom, what can I say? As she got older she slowed down with the multi dog household and she swore I would too, well it hasn't happened yet. I'm sure that this is the last time I have a pack this big, but I will always have more then one.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Okay--Now I have read the other posts, you did explain why he didn't work out elsewhere. I am still thinking that possibly he feels more confident and comfortable with you, and doesn't like being away from you.

Susan


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Do you know anything about George's past, and why he went to 2 other fosters? That seems odd. Also, what do you mean by "barking and fighting the power(me)"?
> 
> Susan


I know that he is young, about a year. He was found on the street trying to become the homeless people of Mississippis dog. The high kill shelter seeked out a rescue to take him because he has a great temperament. Based on his injury they think that he was hit by a car and it was never taken care of. 

By fighting the power I mean that if he isn't in a crate he will jump and get out of any gated area. I have tried several different rooms. The crate is the safest place for him.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Is he a candidate for an FHO or any other kind of treatment that the rescue could fundraise for?
> 
> Because honestly, I have had many sweet fosters, many fosters who fit in great here, but who are also equally and extremely happy in their forever homes, and I was able to help more dogs by adopting them out. I basically adopt to people who treat their dogs the way I treat mine, no matter how long it takes to find that.
> 
> ...


Here is his X-ray


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> I think you need to ask yourself a deeper question: why do you feel the need to collect all these dogs?
> 
> 
> Fostering is about the dog. You get a dog, you rehabilitate it to the best of your ability, and you let it go on to have a better life than when you found it.
> ...


:thumbup:

I agree with Sunflowers.

I will also say that I have 6 animals, 4 of them are cats and then my 2 dogs. I kept getting more animals because I felt like I was lacking in "love" and I felt like I wasn't needed. I kept getting more animals so that I would be loved more and because I wanted to take care of something and feel wanted and depended on. 

Now I have 4 freaking cats, I have come to terms with being alone and I don't miss love but now I am overwhelmed with cats.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I agree with Sunflowers.
> 
> ...


This actually made me laugh--I visualize the cat lady:crazy:

I'm a very independent strong individual. I don't really lack or miss anything. I am very happy with my life. I have a great son, a home with a nice yard, a decent job. I really have everything I need, I am not miserable or unhappy in the least. I do enjoy taking care of the animals and it comes naturally.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

llombardo said:


> This actually made me laugh--I visualize the cat lady:crazy:
> 
> I'm a very independent strong individual. I don't really lack or miss anything. I am very happy with my life. I have a great son, a home with a nice yard, a decent job. I really have everything I need, I am not miserable or unhappy in the least. I do enjoy taking care of the animals and it comes naturally.


I am a very independent person as well. Got my own apartment at 19 years old and bought my 1st house when I was 21 years old and I am about to buy my 2nd house this year at 27 years old. I love living alone, being alone and taking care of myself but I still missed "love" I wanted to be needed by something, maybe I wanted a child or something, I just wanted something to make me feel more important. That's how I ended up with 4 cats, they needed to be rescued and I wanted to love them and be loved in return. 

I LIVE to take care of my animals, I get great joy spoiling them, my life revolves around them. I love them all very much but I am overwhelmed by the amount of cats that I have (not my dogs) and it's because of how destructive they are. 3 of them are incredibly destructive and it has become less pleasurable caring for them.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I am a very independent person as well. Got my own apartment at 19 years old and bought my 1st house when I was 21 years old and I am about to buy my 2nd house this year at 27 years old. I love living alone, being alone and taking care of myself but I still missed "love" I wanted to be needed by something, maybe I wanted a child or something, I just wanted something to make me feel more important. That's how I ended up with 4 cats, they needed to be rescued and I wanted to love them and be loved in return.
> 
> I LIVE to take care of my animals, I get great joy spoiling them, my life revolves around them. I love them all very much but I am overwhelmed by the amount of cats that I have (not my dogs) and it's because of how destructive they are. 3 of them are incredibly destructive and it has become less pleasurable caring for them.


Oh I agree about cats. They are more work for me too. I won't be getting anymore of them. Giving them a cat room has really helped. Do you have room to do that? I also exercise them. They do require that just like a dog. Cat nip has also helped. My oldest cat is 9 and the others are right behind him. Plus I still have those two that I have been fostering for almost a year now. Once they leave I will have a noticeable reduction of cleaning.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Lisa,
> 
> I am writing this before I read any of the other posts, and it is my first thought, just something to consider.
> 
> ...



Susan, fyi, I am copying your post to another thread where someone is concerned about her new dog not barking, hope that's ok.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

llombardo said:


> Oh I agree about cats. They are more work for me too. I won't be getting anymore of them. Giving them a cat room has really helped. Do you have room to do that? I also exercise them. They do require that just like a dog. Cat nip has also helped. My oldest cat is 9 and the others are right behind him. Plus I still have those two that I have been fostering for almost a year now. Once they leave I will have a noticeable reduction of cleaning.


When these 4 are gone, I will not be getting any more cats either! They do have their own room, it has cat condos, litterboxes, cat beds, scratching posts, toys and their food in there. My cats are lazy, 3 out of 4 are overweight and it's not due to overfeeding because I feed them less than the bag recommends and they never get treats. My oldest cat will be 8 this year and the youngest will be 3. All 4 of them are insane shedders and they definitely contribute to the hair population. Also, I have 2 cats that love to play in the bathtub and my faucet drips a little, so the cats play in the tub and then they walk around on my countertops and leave dirty paw prints everywhere. Now, I am sure you are thinking "why not leave the bathroom door closed" but with the heat being on the bathroom would be like a sauna and my house would be colder with that door being shut.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Maybe because I only have one cat, but I don't get how they are more work? Mine is like the comic relief of the house, I could watch her antics all day as she does 360s in the air and sprints brpppting through the house.

I think you should have added another adjective to your statement, Llombardo, that you have a "*beautiful *house with a nice yard". For me, I don't feel that I have enough time to give to more than the pets I have now, and sometimes not even them. My old dog has to be kept separated and I feel sorry for the time he has to spend away from us (by his own choice. . he will not stop barking, snarling, snapping at Varik . ever.. while he's in the same room with him). Most of the time at home is spent with Varik because he's still crated during the day and I don't feel right crating when I'm home. I think you know best how many pets you feel you can adequately provide for, physically, emotionally and mentally.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Galathiel said:


> Maybe because I only have one cat, but I don't get how they are more work? Mine is like the comic relief of the house, I could watch her antics all day as she does 360s in the air and sprints brpppting through the house.


I don't know how to describe it but they feel like they are more work.

My dogs are not destructive, they don't chew anything they are not supposed to and they do not harm my furniture. My 4 cats are destructive. They scratch paint off my walls, they scratch my baseboards, they have ruined my couch, they have destroyed numerous shower curtains, they scratch my window curtains, they ruin my blinds, they knock stuff off my countertops, they chew on plants, plastic and pretty much anything else on my counters and they attack the toilet paper. None of them are declawed but I trim their nails every week and I have scratching posts in several places but they continue to ruin my things. They also like to throw up hairballs everywhere, I have one cat that loves pooping outside of the litterboxes and I have one cat that refuses to cover her poop so sometimes when I get home from work I get to smell cat poop.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

To keep things simple on Holidays I shut the door of the cat room. That is destruction at its best. They knock everything over on the shelves, open all the drawers in the dresser in there and continually put their paws under the door banging to get out. I think they literally throw a fit. I just have issues with none of the animals in my house wanting to be contained. I had one go down the air exchange. I had to shut down the furnace until she resurfaced. They don't come downstairs. Midnite makes sure they don't get past the gate, thst is why I can have my leather furniture


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

llombardo said:


> To keep things simple on Holidays I shut the door of the cat room. That is destruction at its best. They knock everything over on the shelves, open all the drawers in the dresser in there and continually put their paws under the door banging to get out. I think they literally throw a fit. I just have issues with none of the animals in my house wanting to be contained. I had one go down the air exchange. I had to shut down the furnace until she resurfaced. They don't come downstairs. Midnite makes sure they don't get past the gate, thst is why I can have my leather furniture


I can't have a Christmas tree because my 2 youngest cats would tear that thing apart. I can't keep them confined in the cat room, they would throw a massive fit and would probably cause more destruction in that room. They would scream and cry and dig at the floors to get out (I have tried it before.) If I had a basement, I would try to keep them confined down there but I do not have a basement in this house but my next house will definitely have a basement.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I don't know how to describe it but they feel like they are more work.
> 
> My dogs are not destructive, they don't chew anything they are not supposed to and they do not harm my furniture. My 4 cats are destructive. They scratch paint off my walls, they scratch my baseboards, they have ruined my couch, they have destroyed numerous shower curtains, they scratch my window curtains, they ruin my blinds, they knock stuff off my countertops, they chew on plants, plastic and pretty much anything else on my counters and they attack the toilet paper. None of them are declawed but I trim their nails every week and I have scratching posts in several places but they continue to ruin my things. They also like to throw up hairballs everywhere, I have one cat that loves pooping outside of the litterboxes and I have one cat that refuses to cover her poop so sometimes when I get home from work I get to smell cat poop.


I had a lot of these same issues and when I bought my house I took all of it into consideration. 
Couch--they have this double sided tape that you can get at Petsmart. You put it on the corners and they tend to leave it alone because it sticks to their paws

Hairballs- I found that the food plays a role and I finally found one they love and don't vomit at all. Brushing them also helps.

Blinds--I got plantation shutters, easy to clean and they don't destroy them. Other option is the blinds that go from top to bottom instead of across. 

Litter boxes-- I had to redo and get rid of the old boxes. I now have one higher open box and one that is covered with the door off. I also put down the stuff you get that catches the litter from their paws across the whole area where boxes are. The liter itself can play a role. Cats can be picky about litter and switching it or using one they don't care for throws them off and they react. 

Plants--I got a big pot and planted fresh catnip, that they could access anytime. 

I have not figured out the paint on the walls. Mine do it because they want in the bathroom, which is shut.

Shower Curtains? I went with sliding glass doors


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I can't have a Christmas tree because my 2 youngest cats would tear that thing apart. I can't keep them confined in the cat room, they would throw a massive fit and would probably cause more destruction in that room. They would scream and cry and dig at the floors to get out (I have tried it before.) If I had a basement, I would try to keep them confined down there but I do not have a basement in this house but my next house will definitely have a basement.


We are good with a Christmas Tree. In the past I had to put hooks in the wall and attach to the wall. Now I got one of those tree stands that turns and they leave the tree alone because it's moving


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I'm not questioning your ability to care for your pets, your mental health status (glass houses!) or any of that. I'm just saying if you're going to foster, foster. There are thousands of dogs with sad stories, and if you are able to help more by fostering than adopting (seems likely), then help him on his way with an honest, careful placement, and foster another. If you weren't fostering, then that's that, but see my last paragraph. 

I can't foster anymore and I really miss it. I think anyone (not just llombardo) who has the chance and ability to do it, should try it, but that includes seeing it to the end. 

This xray - I have no idea - it may as well be an ortho report written in Chinese, but it seems like if a dog is in some significant degree of chronic orthopedic pain, there is generally a remedy for it: surgery, amputation, not just supplements and meds, that should be looked into closely and carefully by whoever this dog is with, either you, or the rescue, BEFORE his adoption. Then his behavior can really be seen and evaluated (may be the same, may not). 



llombardo said:


> Here is his X-ray


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I'm not questioning your ability to care for your pets, your mental health status (glass houses!) or any of that. I'm just saying if you're going to foster, foster. There are thousands of dogs with sad stories, and if you are able to help more by fostering than adopting (seems likely), then help him on his way with an honest, careful placement, and foster another. If you weren't fostering, then that's that, but see my last paragraph.
> 
> I can't foster anymore and I really miss it. I think anyone (not just llombardo) who has the chance and ability to do it, should try it, but that includes seeing it to the end.
> 
> This xray - I have no idea - it may as well be an ortho report written in Chinese, but it seems like if a dog is in some significant degree of chronic orthopedic pain, there is generally a remedy for it: surgery, amputation, not just supplements and meds, that should be looked into closely and carefully by whoever this dog is with, either you, or the rescue, BEFORE his adoption. Then his behavior can really be seen and evaluated (may be the same, may not).


Oh I know your not questioning my abilities

The original plan was to amputate the leg. He has seen three vets/surgeons. It was decided to keep the leg and give him glucosamine for the rest of his life. I took some weight off him because he was well round. He now has an hour glass shape and less weight on the leg. The bad leg is about a couple inches shorter then the other. He uses it when he walks and runs, but it is lame when he stands. I do not think he is in any pain now but when it first happened it had to be excruciating for the poor dog


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

newlie said:


> Susan, fyi, I am copying your post to another thread where someone is concerned about her new dog not barking, hope that's ok.


Oh no, I don't mind at all--flattered, though! 

Susan


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

lombardo, i am certainly not an expert, but i would have the leg amputated. eventually it is going to cause pain, and at that point he may not be in good enough shape to adapt to having one leg. just my 2 cents.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Are the cats who have been there longer, being forced to live in isolation from the family because some of your dogs which you brought in later are not trustworthy with the cats? Are the cats in danger of being killed if the dogs got to them?

How is that fair to the cats? Are they happy living in fear and banned from the every day life with the family.

I think saving efforts of other dogs is commendable.

But sometimes I think a mentality that 'My own animals' are more important than adding new ones, is essential.

The new additions need to fit into the eco-system for a mutually beneficial ecosystem, and for everyone and every animal to be happy.

I think your mentality is border-line running a 'shelter'... 

Rather than pet ownership per say...

If some of those dogs may have nowhere else to go... I could sort of understand your motivations..

But you really need to be careful in just hoarding too many animals that are not in a co-hesive environment.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

This dog has been returned to foster twice because of issues with the leg. That tells me the glucosamine obviously is not doing a good job with the leg issue and has resulted in the dog being returned twice. I don't understand why amputation has not been strongly recommended as it seems it could be the answer to this dog finding a wonderful forever home. 

There is something missing when a disability or condition is so severe it has created homing issues, yet the only treatment being given is glucosamine.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Saphire said:


> This dog has been returned to foster twice because of issues with the leg. That tells me the glucosamine obviously is not doing a good job with the leg issue and has resulted in the dog being returned twice. I don't understand why amputation has not been strongly recommended as it seems it could be the answer to this dog finding a wonderful forever home.
> 
> There is something missing when a disability or condition is so severe it has created homing issues, yet the only treatment being given is glucosamine.


Glucosamine will never fix anything...

Its a nice supplementation for some mild benefits in rebuilding cartilage... (That can actually be replicated with a balanced diet and no supplementation)...

There are some arbitrary studies that it adds value. It certainly is not harmful.

It is prescribed all the time for humans with beginning stages of osteoarthritis correctly.

But it will never build cartilage where the cartilage is completely destroyed.

I think some vets are just selling it as a money maker.

It will never do harm. But it is pretty expensive...

With the supposedly balanced diets in some pet foods, the dogs should be getting most of their natural dose...

Another example is vitamin supplementation that works only because there is a flaw in the diet. (Very common in most human diets- we rarely follow strict diets from dieticians)
The rest of the benefits. Well frankly. It is just expensive Urine. And a placebo effect in humans... That does not exist in dogs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Lykoz said:


> Are the cats who have been there longer, being forced to live in isolation from the family because some of your dogs which you brought in later are not trustworthy with the cats? Are the cats in danger of being killed if the dogs got to them?
> 
> How is that fair to the cats? Are they happy living in fear and banned from the every day life with the family.
> 
> ...


The cats are fine. They have a cat room that is theirs alone plus a loft and two other rooms. They can come downstairs if they choose and every now and then they do. The only time they are contained is if I'm having lots f people over and that is because I don't want them jumping on the table or running out the door when people are coming and going. It's for their safety. Midnite is the only dog that is not completely trustworthy with one of the cats. The cat has never liked Midnite. If I'm there and supervising everything is fine. I just don't allow interactions when I'm not around. Now I have come home at lunch and said cat is sleeping on the couch with the dogs, but there is always an escape route for the cats ALWAYS.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Lykoz said:


> Glucosamine will never fix anything...
> 
> Its a nice supplementation for some mild benefits in rebuilding cartilage... (That can actually be replicated with a balanced diet and no supplementation)...
> 
> ...


Glucosamine to me would be minimal treatment for what sounds like a serious ailment.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Saphire said:


> This dog has been returned to foster twice because of issues with the leg. That tells me the glucosamine obviously is not doing a good job with the leg issue and has resulted in the dog being returned twice. I don't understand why amputation has not been strongly recommended as it seems it could be the answer to this dog finding a wonderful forever home.
> 
> There is something missing when a disability or condition is so severe it has created homing issues, yet the only treatment being given is glucosamine.


The second time he was returned was because the amputation was going to be done, but the people couldn't afford it. That is when he was taken for a second and third opinion. A condition of his adoption for me from the person is that his leg is not to be amputated. I'm sure this would apply to anyone. Aside from arthritis setting in, he doesn't seem to be any pain. 

One of my own vets told me a while ago that fish oil is better then glucosamine. They said glucosamine is hit or miss. 

I have not really given it. I give him tumeric, which is in his food also. I was having knee problems and that stuff worked wonders, seems to work with him to.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

llombardo said:


> The cats are fine. They have a cat room that is theirs alone plus a loft and two other rooms. They can come downstairs if they choose and every now and then they do. The only time they are contained is if I'm having lots f people over and that is because I don't want them jumping on the table or running out the door when people are coming and going. It's for their safety. Midnite is the only dog that is not completely trustworthy with one of the cats. The cat has never liked Midnite. If I'm there and supervising everything is fine. I just don't allow interactions when I'm not around. Now I have come home at lunch and said cat is sleeping on the couch with the dogs, but there is always an escape route for the cats ALWAYS.


Very nice 

You asked how do you know if a dog is happy.

Just making a point that its not just about the new dog... 
The rest of the pets also need to be happy with having a new pet there.

Sometimes we need to know when we have reached our functional limit on making too many dogs and cats happy.

Also of importance is to know what we are trying to achieve.. Save dogs.. Or make our current dogs/cats happy..

If we are trying to save dogs... The Fostering approach is a better one than keeping the dogs. i.e. Keep until a good home can be found...

If we are keeping our own pets.. Well there is a limit on how many an owner can actively, engage, handle whilst making them all happy..

The two situations and methods of thinking can at times be mutually exclusive situations.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Lykoz said:


> Very nice
> 
> You asked how do you know if a dog is happy.
> 
> ...


I never said it was easy The cats require exercise, love, and attention too. Everyone seems content and all are healthy(knock on wood). The cats are wonderful distractions when training Apollo. He adores them and just wants to play play play with them.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Lykoz, I appreciate your enthusiasm for animal welfare and that you're pretty new to the forum. Lisa, however, is an excellent pet owner and I have every belief that those cats are in as close to kitty heaven as they can possibly be this side of the rainbow bridge. 

The OP did not ask for a critique on her cat care and your opinions are voiced in a rather abrasive way that may be perceived as an attack. One of the great things about this forum is the respect and courtesy demonstrated by the participants.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

llombardo said:


> The second time he was returned was because the amputation was going to be done, but the people couldn't afford it. That is when he was taken for a second and third opinion. A condition of his adoption for me from the person is that his leg is not to be amputated. I'm sure this would apply to anyone. Aside from arthritis setting in, he doesn't seem to be any pain.
> 
> One of my own vets told me a while ago that fish oil is better then glucosamine. They said glucosamine is hit or miss.
> 
> I have not really given it. I give him tumeric, which is in his food also. I was having knee problems and that stuff worked wonders, seems to work with him to.


I'm sorry but I don't understand why the rescue group is not looking at a permanent treatment for this dog BEFORE adoption. Your saying the rescue group is NOT allowing an amputation?

If he's not in pain and doing fine why has he been returned by 2 families because of the leg?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Kahrg4 said:


> Lykoz, I appreciate your enthusiasm for animal welfare and that you're pretty new to the forum. Lisa, however, is an excellent pet owner and I have every belief that those cats are in as close to kitty heaven as they can possibly be this side of the rainbow bridge.
> 
> The OP did not ask for a critique on her cat care and your opinions are voiced in a rather abrasive way that may be perceived as an attack. One of the great things about this forum is the respect and courtesy demonstrated by the participants.



Based on what?
Anyone is whatever they want to be on the internet.

For all anyone here knows, we could be the opposite of what we post we are.
Maybe I live in a basement with 10 boas and a goat.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Kahrg4 said:


> Lykoz, I appreciate your enthusiasm for animal welfare and that you're pretty new to the forum. Lisa, however, is an excellent pet owner and I have every belief that those cats are in as close to kitty heaven as they can possibly be this side of the rainbow bridge.
> 
> The OP did not ask for a critique on her cat care and your opinions are voiced in a rather abrasive way that may be perceived as an attack. One of the great things about this forum is the respect and courtesy demonstrated by the participants.


I think my post is completely relevant to the asked question: How to know a dog is happy. Obviously somebody asking such a question is showing she is worried about the care of her animals. She asked I answered.

I am not attacking anyone.
If you scroll more back in this same thread you will see me complementing her.

I was just pointing out that Personal pet welfare and rescue welfare of animals is two different things. 

I noticed her cats may of had some trouble with the dogs.. She later replied they are fine.

I see terrible owners all over the place in my country.. I know the difference.. And I did not accuse her of anything.

I was trying to add my take.. Which is that when adding a new animal, it is not just about if that animal is happy... But how it effects the rest of the animals.

Look-up: Game Theory or Nash Equilibrium 

Explained very nice and simply:


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> Based on what?
> Anyone is whatever they want to be on the internet.
> 
> For all anyone here knows, we could be the opposite of what we post we are.
> Maybe I live in a basement with 10 boas and a goat.




That is impossible. You cannot have basements in Florida, unless....you, the goat and the boas have gills.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Saphire said:


> I'm sorry but I don't understand why the rescue group is not looking at a permanent treatment for this dog BEFORE adoption. Your saying the rescue group is NOT allowing an amputation?
> 
> If he's not in pain and doing fine why has he been returned by 2 families because of the leg?


The vet said so is pretty much it. I don't think the issue was the leg of the dog, I think it was the people themselves having issue with a disability. 

The person that pulled George is heavily involved with the same rescue I am, but they actively work with high kill shelters down south. They pay for pretty much everything out of their pocket and the rescue posts the dog and keeps the adoption fee.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

By asking this question I am not doubting the care of the animals I give at all. I'm confident they are well cared for. I was slightly thrown off when I was told he didn't bark in previous homes, that is it, nothing more. I'm used to getting dogs that showed signs of behavior issues in previous homes and never seeing them in my home. I think there a lot worse behavior issues out there then a dog barking. I like as close to perfect harmony that I can get. I strive to emotionally and physically make all of their lives happy ones.

I think my answer is the confidence level and the fact that he does fit in and he does feel he is at home. He is super affectionate and always looking for direction or approval and I've guided him along. 

I can also assure everyone that the way I read on the Internet is exactly who I am. I love my animals and they get the best care possible. 

Like I said before, George has brought a sense of peace amongst all of them. He is so even tempered it's not funny. They feed off his calmness and did so immediately.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

People need to understand however that their standard of care for each individual animal when somebody owns 10 animals can in no way be equal to somebody's standard of care who puts in equal effort to take care of one animal.

How the animals associate and interact is extremely hard to control.

Two is a bigger commitment than one animal if you want to get something out of them... 

If you don't engage your dogs at all, and have a back yard (A lot of people, are actually like this) I can argue that two animals is better than one as long as they get along so they are not completely lonely and isolated... 

However 10 animals is a big deal in management, no matter how you look at it. 

Big enough of a commitment to be a full time job... Especially if they live in the house with you, and are not in separate pens...

Sometimes to get the behaviours I want with just two animals... By taking them on walks separately... Working with them separately.. 

And over their entire lives... I don't think there is a quick fix for any animal.

Which is why I stress my point that sometimes a foster approach is the better one for somebody who wants to just adopt to help animals...

For me personally.. My dogs are like children. I could never have 10 children, and look after them the way I would like.

Keeping large quantities of pets is a gargantuan task...

So people need to stop and self reflect. 

This is a bit out of the ordinary thing you are doing. 

I dont judge anyone.. Just want people to understand the message I am giving.

I dont think your children are forcing you to leave the foster groups because they don't care for you. Or because they 'dont get it'...
I think they care for you.. And I think they do 'get it'..

I think they are worried for you. Because they know you will keep more and more animals as time goes by.. And don't pass them on or place them elsewhere.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Kahrg4 said:


> Lykoz, I appreciate your enthusiasm for animal welfare and that you're pretty new to the forum. Lisa, however, is an excellent pet owner and I have every belief that those cats are in as close to kitty heaven as they can possibly be this side of the rainbow bridge.
> 
> The OP did not ask for a critique on her cat care and your opinions are voiced in a rather abrasive way that may be perceived as an attack. One of the great things about this forum is the respect and courtesy demonstrated by the participants.


good post. 

lombardo i hope my post didnt come across as anything but "another thought" that you may or may not have thought of. based on my experience working on humans.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

llombardo said:


> By asking this question I am not doubting the care of the animals I give at all. I'm confident they are well cared for. I was slightly thrown off when I was told he didn't bark in previous homes, that is it, nothing more. I'm used to getting dogs that showed signs of behavior issues in previous homes and never seeing them in my home. I think there a lot worse behavior issues out there then a dog barking. I like as close to perfect harmony that I can get. I strive to emotionally and physically make all of their lives happy ones.
> 
> I think my answer is the confidence level and the fact that he does fit in and he does feel he is at home. He is super affectionate and always looking for direction or approval and I've guided him along.
> 
> ...


It is really amazing that George has such a powerful calming effect on your other dogs. Can I borrow him?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

what a therapy dog he would make for our returning disabled vets.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The standard of care that I give my animals is the same for all of them. Just like if I had 10 kids, it would be equal. My son always says I should have had more kids and thinks even now I should adopt. It's just in my nature to take care of kids and animals. I love the sound of kids playing and dogs barking There is no better sounds in this World. I bought my house with the animals in mind. It had to be close to work and no stairs for when they got older. I'm literally 3 minutes from work with no stairs. I come home everyday at lunch to let them out and we get some obedience and fetch in there. They get minimum vaccinations to increase the chance of a healthy life. They get the best food I was able to find after hours of research. All of them have special things they like to do and I make sure that we do it. Of course it's harder I. The winter but once the temps get better and we have more daylight hours we are moving. I come home after 10 hours, let them out and grab a couple to go hiking, the next day it might be swimming, etc. If I have a younger one, they go everywhere I can take them for socialization. Obedience starts at once a week and moves to 2-3 times a week as they get older. A couple love agility and I found that both times I tried classes there were either DA or HA dogs in the class and that was unacceptable, so I paid thousands of dollars on agility equipment to enjoy at home. They have swimming pools and sprinklers set up in the summer. Vet care s given to any that need it. I didn't blink or think twice about spending thousands on my golden when he was diagnosed with hip dysplasia. I would do the same for any of them. If I get a toy for one I get a toy for all. If I get a bone for one I get a bone for all. I groom one I groom all of them, whether they need it or not. 

My goal is to have these dogs live happily and be healthy for as many years as possible. I take pride in having a clean home and dogs that can mingle with family and friends. It's a great feeling to have 20 people of all ages over for a BBQ or a party and they all can mingle , both dogs and people without issue

So I can safely say that the standard of care is excellent. All of them are happy, healthy and very well adjusted. They don't just get that way. I put my heart and soul in it and I'm proud of every accomplishment we make. They are my family and are treated as such. 

So while I can understand how some people might think it's not normal to have what I have of carry the load that I do, it is normal for me and I enjoy it. At the end of a long busy day everyone is happy and pooped out. 

And for the record I thought having a large yard would be great but I missed walking them so much so that I have started doing so again...one or two at a time....it's good exercise


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

huntergreen said:


> good post.
> 
> lombardo i hope my post didnt come across as anything but "another thought" that you may or may not have thought of. based on my experience working on humans.


I appreciate all thoughts. He probably would make a decent therapy dog too. He does jump, so that needs to be worked on.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Lykoz said:


> For me personally.. My dogs are like children. I could never have 10 children, and look after them the way I would like.


I'm the same way with my two GSDs and I could never handle a pack as large as hers with the same grace and generosity that she does. It's one of the things that makes people like her so incredibly rare and special.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> That is impossible. You cannot have basements in Florida, unless....you, the goat and the boas have gills.


Ah... But you are assuming I am in Florida 
" the sunshine state" can mean anything.

For all you know, I could very well be in Timbuktu.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

llombardo said:


> By asking this question I am not doubting the care of the animals I give at all. I'm confident they are well cared for. I was slightly thrown off when I was told he didn't bark in previous homes, that is it, nothing more. I'm used to getting dogs that showed signs of behavior issues in previous homes and never seeing them in my home. I think there a lot worse behavior issues out there then a dog barking. I like as close to perfect harmony that I can get. I strive to emotionally and physically make all of their lives happy ones.
> 
> I think my answer is the confidence level and the fact that he does fit in and he does feel he is at home. He is super affectionate and always looking for direction or approval and I've guided him along.
> 
> ...


I think you're answering your own OP question here. 

I, personally, couldn't handle it, but I am also heading toward my 70s. The most I have had at once is 3 canines. Also, back when I had more than 2 dogs, at least 1 and sometimes 2 of the 3 were wolf shepherds, and they take even more time and attention than dogs (even our GSDs, lol). And at the time I was also training and showing horses, physically and mentally exhausting as a full time job (but I loved it), and I wouldn't have had much left over for a full pack. I had my sister helping a great deal with the dogs then, too, and they were never left home alone. Today I have one boy who is nearly as demanding of my attention as the wolfdogs, and fortunately my female is pretty independent, asking for affection, and after a few pets, scratches and hugs, she's done.

My hat is off to you, Lisa, for being so capable--emotionally and physically (and financially!)--and providing for them so well. I really don't think you have to worry about any of them not being happy!

Susan


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Lykoz said:


> People need to understand however that their standard of care for each individual animal when somebody owns 10 animals can in no way be equal to somebody's standard of care who puts in equal effort to take care of one animal.
> 
> How the animals associate and interact is extremely hard to control.
> 
> ...



Mmmm, Lykoz, read Lisa's post (llombardo) where she describes her modes of caring for her animals... She is what she says. For the most part, considering a whole lot of other people, I would say you are right. But not with Lisa. She is not a hoarder, if that is the direction you were taking. She tells it like it is, whether it is about herself or others. Some people can handle what she is doing, many cannot. She can.

Susan


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Mmmm, Lykoz, read Lisa's post (llombardo) where she describes her modes of caring for her animals... She is what she says. For the most part, considering a whole lot of other people, I would say you are right. But not with Lisa. She is not a hoarder, if that is the direction you were taking. She tells it like it is, whether it is about herself or others. Some people can handle what she is doing, many cannot. She can.
> 
> Susan



:thumbup:


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Well done to her. I am glad and very impressed she can afford that type of care to so many animals.
I am not judging anyone. And my post is not just to her.
Its just something general for all to hear.

As good as she is. Everybody must reach a limit eventually. Weather its 10, 20, 30 or 100 animals running around freely in a house. 
I don't know what that limit is for each person. But at some point the animals are no longer cared for as loving pets.
A hoarder may not even know they are doing it.

I was just worried with the cats.. And that the family expressed concern.
Sometimes our role as members of a dog forum is not just to agree with posters, but try see it objectively in ways it can help them and their families.
If her own family is worried about it (I may be wrong, but it seemed that way)... Who are we as a support group to affirm her and not be helpfull to the families concerns...

Again I could be completely wrong.
If she understands the things I posted, and she is happy with her situation I am ecstatic for her and her pets.
As I said before.. I am sure those dogs are much happier with her, than they would be with a lot of other families.

I just worry sometimes that in all the good intentions, sometimes we go too far.
I completely respect if this is not one of those cases.
Not everybody can fit into a checkered box.

But at the same time its hard for me to grasp how this is even possible with a full a time job.
My male right now is a bit loony... Because my female is in heat... 
Yesterday was terrible... today is better. 

But things like these can relate with each and every independent animal. And I am not just talking about problems specific to Intact dogs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Maybe I shouldn't add that I also keep fish...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

The plot thickens. Hmmmmm.

aranoid:



Sunflowers said:


> Ah... But you are assuming I am in Florida
> " the sunshine state" can mean anything.
> 
> For all you know, I could very well be in Timbuktu.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

No you shouldn't add that, because now I want to know what kind of substrate you are using?

(Gorgeous tank!)




llombardo said:


> Maybe I shouldn't add that I also keep fish...


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Maybe I shouldn't add that I also keep fish...


hahah  I couldn't care less if you owned 100 fish and had a nice barbecue with them...

But nice post. Made me giggle.

And as Gwen said beautiful tank..

I had a gold fish as a youngster. In a tiny little bowl like the ones americans get in the movies from a fair..

I think my management of that fish could be termed animal abuse.. I will never own a fish again because of it.
And I didn't even eat it


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Lykoz said:


> hahah  I couldn't care less if you owned 100 fish and had a nice barbecue with them...
> 
> But nice post. Made me giggle.
> 
> ...


With regards to this thread, you and I are on the same page. I think in this case your posts were clear, to the point and heartfelt.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

This is how I know Captain is happy. Car ride + in n out burger= dog heaven


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> No you shouldn't add that, because now I want to know what kind of substrate you are using?
> 
> (Gorgeous tank!)


Thanks--it is very relaxing to watch. 

Just plain old black gravel. I started with a 20 went to a 55 and now the 125. Mainly went bigger because the Bala Shark needed more room. Now he has 125 gallons to enjoy

I came home and found this not long ago--looks like baby severums may be coming in the future...


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I don't know how to describe it but they feel like they are more work.
> 
> My dogs are not destructive, they don't chew anything they are not supposed to and they do not harm my furniture. My 4 cats are destructive. They scratch paint off my walls, they scratch my baseboards, they have ruined my couch, they have destroyed numerous shower curtains, they scratch my window curtains, they ruin my blinds, they knock stuff off my countertops, they chew on plants, plastic and pretty much anything else on my counters and they attack the toilet paper. None of them are declawed but I trim their nails every week and I have scratching posts in several places but they continue to ruin my things. They also like to throw up hairballs everywhere, I have one cat that loves pooping outside of the litterboxes and I have one cat that refuses to cover her poop so sometimes when I get home from work I get to smell cat poop.


Hair balls once or twice a MONTH per cat would be normal.....anything beyond that is a legit medical problem. Either over grooming (allergies, stress, fleas...), food sensitivity, or intestinal problem (IBD, parasites, etc). The normal pet owner thinks every day cat hair balls are normal, when in fact it is not at all. Having either urine or BM accidents outside of the box is also a problem, either behavioral or medical (a problem that can be fixed). I wonder if the same cat is having the BM accidents and most of the hair balls (which would likely indicate a medical problem).
I know this is so far off topic but there are many here with cats who may also be having the same issues so I thoguht I'd mention.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ugavet2012 said:


> Hair balls once or twice a MONTH per cat would be normal.....anything beyond that is a legit medical problem. Either over grooming (allergies, stress, fleas...), food sensitivity, or intestinal problem (IBD, parasites, etc). The normal pet owner thinks every day cat hair balls are normal, when in fact it is not at all. Having either urine or BM accidents outside of the box is also a problem, either behavioral or medical (a problem that can be fixed). I wonder if the same cat is having the BM accidents and most of the hair balls (which would likely indicate a medical problem).
> I know this is so far off topic but there are many here with cats who may also be having the same issues so I thoguht I'd mention.


I think it's great that you mentioned it. Just like a dog, rule out medical and move on to behavioral.


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## DizzySnowFire (Jan 22, 2015)

I've read through all of the thread and I think you should keep George. He seems happy in your care plus you won't rehome him so even better! You sound like you know what you are doing when it comes to animals. Which is very good! 

I look up to you now because of all the animals you look after. Since I one day hope to have a lot of dogs and possibly cats. Of course my dogs will be put to work in my future therapy practice. My cats may be too depending how they like to car or where my location is... 
Heck, I want to open a rescue for dogs of course I'm not sure if that's a good idea because I'd be so picky on rehoming...It's why I don't take others suggestions when they said I should go do stuff at the humane society because well if I fall in love with an animal then I'm going to want to take it home probably and I might be at my max capacity so it's just not a good idea. I only follow my local humane society fb page and that's it . Sometimes I already have urge to go meet the dog they have in their care but I don't because a lot of the times others want it so I just go on my business on fb.
But yes I admire you. I hope to own many dogs at least. Mostly GSD and Goldens but I really like Newfies and Leos...


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

DizzySnowFire said:


> I've read through all of the thread and I think you should keep George. He seems happy in your care plus you won't rehome him so even better! You sound like you know what you are doing when it comes to animals. Which is very good!
> 
> I look up to you now because of all the animals you look after. Since I one day hope to have a lot of dogs and possibly cats. Of course my dogs will be put to work in my future therapy practice. My cats may be too depending how they like to car or where my location is...
> Heck, I want to open a rescue for dogs of course I'm not sure if that's a good idea because I'd be so picky on rehoming...It's why I don't take others suggestions when they said I should go do stuff at the humane society because well if I fall in love with an animal then I'm going to want to take it home probably and I might be at my max capacity so it's just not a good idea. I only follow my local humane society fb page and that's it . Sometimes I already have urge to go meet the dog they have in their care but I don't because a lot of the times others want it so I just go on my business on fb.
> But yes I admire you. I hope to own many dogs at least. Mostly GSD and Goldens but I really like Newfies and Leos...


If you read my posts.. I was trying to be very polite and subtle.

I was trying to get a message across especially for individuals like you.
Maybe I failed.

When I said there is a limit to how many cared for dogs/cats you can have... And I said maybe its 10, 20, 30 or 100... I was trying to emphasise there is always a limit...

A fostered dog is different to a pet. 

The limit of reasonable care for a pet... 
Is more like... 1... 2... 3 maybe 4 pushing it for a very experienced owner....
I have known people with 3 and 4 dogs... There dogs barely got any walks or any stimulation.

Believe me when I say overdoing it is not enriching the dogs lives.

I quoted Nash's Equilibrium before... Often for each additional pet you put into your life... The standard of care of the rest will drop. You need to understand that for each additional pet you take in... You need to see the world as a partner with your current pets. 1st guy had it best... Then he lost his privelege.. 2nd dog takes attention... 1st dog gets some.. Then 3rd, 4th each get a dose... Then first few dogs get forgotten. on 6 and 7... Those decisions have no value for the first dogs.. The first few dogs are completely forgotten.

People can sympathise here because they dont give their dogs the attention others do...


What someone says they do.. And what they really do is two completely different things.

Now you just stated you may want many pure-bred dogs... That often have nothing to do with fostering, or helping animals in need.

Its more similar to running a doggie zoo.


I can honestly say... and I believe this strongly...

Some owners on this forum have a single dog... And I believe they put more time looking after that one dog than some people do with 10 dogs. 

This is the only reason people think it is possible to own 10...

Proper Exercise and Walks... That alone would take you 5 hours a day... without getting anything else done.

So I can understand the whole saving dogs angle...
However pet ownership is not about just saving other dogs..

You might as well save all the abandoned children in the world...
What matters is that you don't add to the problem, and look after your own. What you already have. Your family.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> Hair balls once or twice a MONTH per cat would be normal.....anything beyond that is a legit medical problem. Either over grooming (allergies, stress, fleas...), food sensitivity, or intestinal problem (IBD, parasites, etc). The normal pet owner thinks every day cat hair balls are normal, when in fact it is not at all. Having either urine or BM accidents outside of the box is also a problem, either behavioral or medical (a problem that can be fixed). I wonder if the same cat is having the BM accidents and most of the hair balls (which would likely indicate a medical problem).
> I know this is so far off topic but there are many here with cats who may also be having the same issues so I thoguht I'd mention.


When I said "_*They also like to throw up hairballs everywhere*_" I didn't mean they throw up every day, I meant that they throw up everywhere as in the bathtub or the kitchen counter or the couch or my shoe or my treadmill or their cat bed or one of my rugs. No, they all throw up at some point, the one that poops outside of the box does it when she walks into the litterbox and sees that my youngest cat didn't cover her poop. Instead of covering the poop herself or going to one of the other 2 boxes, she just poops on the outside of the box.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Goldfish in bowls aren't easy, really they are not. They emit a lot of waste and foul the water quickly. Most of the time parents see the fish dead and flush it before the child realizes what happened. . It maybe a hobby you enjoy someday, I think it would appeal to you. 


Have a good day Lykoz.




Lykoz said:


> hahah  I couldn't care less if you owned 100 fish and had a nice barbecue with them...
> 
> But nice post. Made me giggle.
> 
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I think she meant well sharing that information.

Hope you are doing well.....




LaRen616 said:


> When I said "_*They also like to throw up hairballs everywhere*_" I didn't mean they throw up every day, I meant that they throw up everywhere as in the bathtub or the kitchen counter or the couch or my shoe or my treadmill or their cat bed or one of my rugs. No, they all throw up at some point, the one that poops outside of the box does it when she walks into the litterbox and sees that my youngest cat didn't cover her poop. Instead of covering the poop herself or going to one of the other 2 boxes, she just poops on the outside of the box.


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## Lykoz (Dec 6, 2014)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Goldfish in bowls aren't easy, really they are not. They emit a lot of waste and foul the water quickly. Most of the time parents see the fish dead and flush it before the child realizes what happened. . It maybe a hobby you enjoy someday, I think it would appeal to you.
> 
> 
> Have a good day Lykoz.


Well at least I gave it a burial as a kid.

No it was not easy. I didn't know what I was doing.
The fish had far too little space.

The cleaning was not what it should have been.
The feeding was likely off.

The little fish bowl was a joke.
And I probably did more mistakes I did not even know about.

At least it was one fish.

Maybe they flushed a fish I killed before I noticed and secretly got me a new one without me knowing.. (I sometimes thought the fish looked different.. Don't care to find out now that I may have killed two fish) After the second one, they probably realised I had to see the dead fish.

Harsh for the fish. But it taught me I had responsibility for my pets welfare...

It also showed me that I should not take on things I have no interest in the long run. For me as a kid. Looking at the fish swim in a little fishbowl got incredibly boring real fast. Im sure my fish was not too impressed with me looking at it either. 

Checked it up for fun a bit... Lol I didnt realise you can 'train' fish too...





Goes to show... Every single pet endeavour has its own set of responsibilities.


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## RuffTerrain (Feb 23, 2015)

I just happened to read your post. Could it be that the reason he doesn't like to be contained when he is with you is that he doesn't want to lose you or be taken elsewhere? Perhaps he also associates the containment with other places he has been, where he was not as happy, or treated as well. (Not saying he was abused, but not all people are considerate of the quality of their pets' lives. )


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

Lykoz said:


> If you read my posts.. I was trying to be very polite and subtle.
> 
> I was trying to get a message across especially for individuals like you.
> Maybe I failed.
> ...


i have read many of your posts. maybe its your style of writing, but you you come across as critical, self righteous, all knowing and extremely condescending. as a newb, you may want to sit back and just read for awhile and get to know some of the folks on here before offering up unsolicited, advice with your unwarranted criticism.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> When I said "_*They also like to throw up hairballs everywhere*_" I didn't mean they throw up every day, I meant that they throw up everywhere as in the bathtub or the kitchen counter or the couch or my shoe or my treadmill or their cat bed or one of my rugs. No, they all throw up at some point, the one that poops outside of the box does it when she walks into the litterbox and sees that my youngest cat didn't cover her poop. Instead of covering the poop herself or going to one of the other 2 boxes, she just poops on the outside of the box.


I didn't mean to imply you were a poor owner or not taking care of them, just that at most you shouldn't be cleaning up more than 4-8 hairballs a month. Like I said just mentioned it because very few realize this is actually a medical problem when it's multiple times a week. My dogs throw up way more than that in a month and it's usually on my carpet :crazy::crazy: and much larger piles than a cat would leave, and yes it's usually my fault because I fed them people food or they got into the trash.


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## DizzySnowFire (Jan 22, 2015)

Lykoz said:


> If you read my posts.. I was trying to be very polite and subtle.
> 
> I was trying to get a message across especially for individuals like you.
> Maybe I failed.
> ...


I'm so confused to why you quoted me...I wasn't really talking about you or anything...
I was talking or less to llombardo. Or just putting my two cents in that is it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> I didn't mean to imply you were a poor owner or not taking care of them, just that at most you shouldn't be cleaning up more than 4-8 hairballs a month. Like I said just mentioned it because very few realize this is actually a medical problem when it's multiple times a week. My dogs throw up way more than that in a month and it's usually on my carpet :crazy::crazy: and much larger piles than a cat would leave, and yes it's usually my fault because I fed them people food or they got into the trash.


Oh no, I didn't take it that way at all, I am not offended or anything. I thought what I originally wrote made sense but after reading it I can see that I wasn't really clear, lol.


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