# Considering adding a German Shepherd to my family



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Hi everyone,
I am considering getting a German Shepherd to add to my family and have a few questions/concerns. I have two children. One is 6 and the other is 8. I'm looking for a dog that is protective but not overly protective. We have family over occasionally which includes my 4 year old nephew. I also work full time so the dog would be alone during the day.
Some questions I have are what can I expect from my GS puppy? What is the best way to train him and will he fit into my family? I've wanted a German Shepherd my whole life and now that I have my chance to get one, I'm reluctant. Not looking to have a mean dog. Just one that is family oriented.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

GSDs are AWESOME family dogs. Very protective and loving! There should be NO aggression to anyone if the family at all. I know several people on this forum who have children much younger than yours and several GSDs!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that I also have a female chihuahua and will be getting a female GSD. Is dominance a big issue? Will she be ok with family and friends that come to visit? I'm leaning strongly toward getting her, I just need to be sure. I've tried doing research but am getting mixed messages. I've never done the pack leader thing before but am more than willing to try.


----------



## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

my female absolutely LOVES little dogs!


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

First would be to make sure you are getting the dog from a responsible breeder that has proof of producing temperamentally sound dogs.

My preference is to avoid two females if you can. Here's a thread that discusses that: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/140526-two-female-gsd.html

Socialization, socialization, socialization is the key to a well balanced dog. Get into a training class after the puppy has all her shots. 

By introducing your puppy to as many different kinds of people, things, places and situations as you can (in a positive way), you will increase your chance of having a well rounded dog who loves her family and knows the difference between everyday situations and things and an actual threat.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Welcome to the board. If you go to a reputable breeder and do the right things with the puppy, you should not have to worry. GSDs can make great family members.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

That's great to hear. Is me working during the day going to be a problem? How hard is it to be a "pack leader?"


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

By the way, thanks for all the advice everyone. 
And this is the breeder: Home - GERMAN SHEPHERDS AT THEIR FINEST


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Anyone? I'm a little worried about the puppy being at home for 9 hours while I'm at work.


----------



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I'm not seeing any information about their dogs being OFA certified??? Maybe its just me but the words 'backyard breeder' are just screaming to me from their website. A good breeder usually wants to have more control over which pups are 'worthy' of being sold as possible breeding stock....on the other hand, this person seems to be bragging that their pups are out being bred and 'starting all kinds of business'.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Keldor said:


> Anyone? I'm a little worried about the puppy being at home for 9 hours while I'm at work.


9 hours is definitely too long for a puppy to be crated or alone. Is there someone who can come let them out/feed them lunch during the day? No puppy should be in a crate for 9 hours.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Glad I found this web site. Maybe, I'll look for a different breeder. I assumed this one was good since they offer obedience classes and they said that they would take the dogs back for any reason. I've only got 1 shot at this so I want everything to go smoothly.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

What is the maximum time for them to be crated. I have a sister that lives down the street that can help.


----------



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Keldor said:


> Anyone? I'm a little worried about the puppy being at home for 9 hours while I'm at work.


Nine hours (IMO) is too long for a pup to be left alone although I'm sure many people do this. How are you going to confine the pup while your away? Instead of leaving him/her for nine hours perhaps someone could stop by mid day and interact with the pup, take him/her outside for potty run and a little excercise.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I stopped reading the breeder's website when they boasted that lots of people who bought their puppies are staring their own breeding kennels. Not my cup of tea but says absolutely nothing about the dogs they produce. 

Of course, I'm a rescue gal so I don't buy from breeders but if I did, I'd be looking for health clearances, titles that show sound temperament, years of proven dogs. I'd go meet the parents and the puppies. I'd want the breeder to be interested in my goals and what I am looking for and to suggest a dog for me based on what I want and how well they know their puppies. Did you check out the responsible breeder link I posted?


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I would find a different breeder. If you give us your location, we can recommend you local reputable breeders.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

shilohsmom said:


> Nine hours (IMO) is too long for a pup to be left alone although I'm sure many people do this. How are you going to confine the pup while your away? Instead of leaving him/her for nine hours perhaps someone could stop by mid day and interact with the pup, take him/her outside for potty run and a little excercise.


Yeah, I was planning on keeping him/her crated just while I was at work and when we're sleeping but I can ask my sister or mom to come over during the day and let them out for a while.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Keldor said:


> What is the maximum time for them to be crated. I have a sister that lives down the street that can help.


I'd say 4 hours is the absolute max. Puppies have very little bladder control, so you would be coming home to a very messy crate! If your sister can come in at mid-point, and feed the puppy and let him out...that would be ideal!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> I would find a different breeder. If you give us your location, we can recommend you local reputable breeders.


That would be great. I live in Austin, TX.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also would look for a different breeder. 

As for crating, 9 hours for an 8 week old is to long to expect them to not potty. If your sister can come over and take him/her out atleast twice daily when you first get him/her that will help.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> I stopped reading the breeder's website when they boasted that lots of people who bought their puppies are staring their own breeding kennels. Not my cup of tea but says absolutely nothing about the dogs they produce.
> 
> Of course, I'm a rescue gal so I don't buy from breeders but if I did, I'd be looking for health clearances, titles that show sound temperament, years of proven dogs. I'd go meet the parents and the puppies. I'd want the breeder to be interested in my goals and what I am looking for and to suggest a dog for me based on what I want and how well they know their puppies. Did you check out the responsible breeder link I posted?


I'm reading it now.


----------



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Keldor said:


> Glad I found this web site. Maybe, I'll look for a different breeder. I assumed this one was good since they offer obedience classes and they said that they would take the dogs back for any reason. I've only got 1 shot at this so I want everything to go smoothly.


I'm glad you found this website as well. Theres a whole section on finding a breeder so you might find a lot of useful tips there. I also liked the statement that this breeder wrote about taking the dogs back and how they offer obedience, its just everything else I didn't care for. Best of luck.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> I would find a different breeder. If you give us your location, we can recommend you local reputable breeders.


Do you guys recommend any breeders in or near Austin, TX? My wife is trying to talk me into getting a boxer but I really want a GSD.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Boxers are amazing dogs...no question...but there is NOTHING like a GSD! IMO!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

jprice103 said:


> Boxers are amazing dogs...no question...but there is NOTHING like a GSD! IMO!


What makes you like a GSD more? Just curious. I'm pretty sure I would too.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

I grew up next to a house full of GSDs and got to play and know them very well, but never had one of my own until now. They are just amazing dogs.. so loving...adore their owners, protect the family, have amazing personalities...will sleep when you need to get stuff done...be ready to go when you are ready to play...and just look at you like you are the most important thing in the world! I've had dogs all my life...mixes, terriers, dalmations, etc., but I've never truly had a dog that I felt the same about as my GSD! They just seem to be so attuned to you and the family...haven't had that with any other dog I've ever had! I only wish I could go back and have gotten one earlier in my life...but I will tell you, now that I've had one...I will ALWAYS have one (or more eventually)!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

jprice103 said:


> I grew up next to a house full of GSDs and got to play and know them very well, but never had one of my own until now. They are just amazing dogs.. so loving...adore their owners, protect the family, have amazing personalities...will sleep when you need to get stuff done...be ready to go when you are ready to play...and just look at you like you are the most important thing in the world! I've had dogs all my life...mixes, terriers, dalmations, etc., but I've never truly had a dog that I felt the same about as my GSD! They just seem to be so attuned to you and the family...haven't had that with any other dog I've ever had! I only wish I could go back and have gotten one earlier in my life...but I will tell you, now that I've had one...I will ALWAYS have one (or more eventually)!


That is amazing to hear. That's it. My mind is set. Just have to find a different breeder.


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

This is just me speaking, but I would have concerns about a GSD and small children. I don't think it would hurt your children, but other children coming over, may knock them down and get a little protective of your kids once the GSD was older. Small children can be unpredictable. Hopefully a good breeder could pick out a good pup for your family dynamics. GSD's are the most loyal breed, I don't know how it would do alone all day. My neighbor uses a doggy daycare while she works.

A boxer is a high energy dog, I can't see it being alone 9 hours a day, do you have time for a good jog before going to work? For a family with small children around and parents working all day I think the French Bulldogs are a great choice, but not known to be protective.


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Something to consider. GSD puppies require a TON of work to become the great adult GSDs you see. Socialization is huge, training, exercise both mental and physical. GSD puppies are called land sharks. They have super sharp teeth and bite a ton. Lots of new owners join on here not aware of that and they think their dogs are aggressive. Really the biting doesn't stop until they are done teething (5-6 months) It gets better before then but it is a long time to deal with a puppy wanting to snack on your arms, especially with little kids. 

I would also suggest forgetting about "pack leader" Ceasar stuff. Most of us use "NILF" (nothing in life is free) to establish leadership from puppyhood on. Start out a little tough and then as the pup matures and learns house rules you can let some stuff slip. With playing, training, anything you can do to bond with your GSD you will be seen as the leader.

Since you work long hours maybe an older puppy or an adult would be a good first GSD.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Gretchen said:


> This is just me speaking, but I would have concerns about a GSD and small children. I don't think it would hurt your children, but other children coming over, may knock them down and get a little protective of your kids once the GSD was older. Small children can be unpredictable. Hopefully a good breeder could pick out a good pup for your family dynamics. GSD's are the most loyal breed, I don't know how it would do alone all day. My neighbor uses a doggy daycare while she works.
> 
> A boxer is a high energy dog, I can't see it being alone 9 hours a day, do you have time for a good jog before going to work? For a family with small children around and parents working all day I think the French Bulldogs are a great choice, but not known to be protective.


Oh no. That's what I was afraid of. I have a 4 year old nephew that comes over a couple times a week and my mom who is 71 also comes over about once a month. No matter what, I want the dog to be as happy living with us as we are. I also want a good dog that will be a little protective due to having a psycho family member. Lots to think about.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> Something to consider. GSD puppies require a TON of work to become the great adult GSDs you see. Socialization is huge, training, exercise both mental and physical. GSD puppies are called land sharks. They have super sharp teeth and bite a ton. Lots of new owners join on here not aware of that and they think their dogs are aggressive. Really the biting doesn't stop until they are done teething (5-6 months) It gets better before then but it is a long time to deal with a puppy wanting to snack on your arms, especially with little kids.
> 
> I would also suggest forgetting about "pack leader" Ceasar stuff. Most of us use "NILF" (nothing in life is free) to establish leadership from puppyhood on. Start out a little tough and then as the pup matures and learns house rules you can let some stuff slip. With playing, training, anything you can do to bond with your GSD you will be seen as the leader.
> 
> Since you work long hours maybe an older puppy or an adult would be a good first GSD.


Very informative. That's one of the things I was looking for. I don't mind the work or the biting (at least not for a little while) but I'm a little worried about not being home during the day and how the GSD would interact with both mine and my family's children.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> GSD puppies require a TON of work to become the great adult GSDs you see.


Very good point. I can't tell you how many people I've met that think GSDs are born trained! :headbang:

I think (given your posts) that you haven't raised a dog before? Have you considered an adult rescue? An adult from a reputable rescue and a good foster home is great. With an adult, what you see is what you get. And if they are in a good foster home, all the basics will be done for you and they should be able to tell you if the dog is suitable to live with kids and small dogs. Plus your past the housebreaking and teething stage which will make being gone for so long easier on the dog.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> Very good point. I can't tell you how many people I've met that think GSDs are born trained! :headbang:
> 
> I think (given your posts) that you haven't raised a dog before? Have you considered an adult rescue? An adult from a reputable rescue and a good foster home is great. With an adult, what you see is what you get. And if they are in a good foster home, all the basics will be done for you and they should be able to tell you if the dog is suitable to live with kids and small dogs. Plus your past the housebreaking and teething stage which will make being gone for so long easier on the dog.


Yes, I have never raised a dog before. This would be my first. With a foster dog, would I need to have a concern about that dog's childhood? I figured having a puppy raised with my kids would help them bond but I'm not opposed to getting a foster GSD.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

With a foster, you'll get feedback from the foster parent...and it if is not a good fit, you'll be informed. I tend to think that rescues make the BEST pets if you find one that fits what you are looking for....and that is what my next GSD will be...without a doubt!


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Keldor said:


> With a foster dog, would I need to have a concern about that dog's childhood?


Yes and no. Dogs live in the moment and assuming they have decent nerves and temperament (which can be found in rescues) they can overcome what has landed them there.

That's why working with a reputable rescue is equally as important as working with a reputable breeder. My preference is to have the dog in foster care for no less than 30 days for proper evaluation of temperament. You should see most of their personality in that time and a good foster would have socialized and tested to see how they are with kids and other animals. There are a couple of rescues in your area that have volunteers on this board. 

Raven is the only dog that have had since a puppy (3 months) and I have had several fosters (all males) and I find that they bond to me rather quickly and quite strongly.

Here's one of my previous fosters. He was in foster care with me for about 3 months at around 1-1.5 yrs old. His family had a baby approximately a year and a half after they adopted him. They say he is wonderful with the baby, very gentle. (I know it's sideways, sorry)










I don't want to say that all GSDs will be good with kids or that they won't. It's all about finding the right match whether its through a good breeder or a good rescue and can take time.


----------



## aManicCookie (Apr 23, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> Since you work long hours maybe an older puppy or an adult would be a good first GSD.


 
I also second this idea. Being a first time dog owner myself...I decided to go with a "not so puppy" puppy. My boy was a little over 5 months old when I got him. So for the most part he's out of his whiny stage, only nips just a bit and also it's been SUPER easy to potty train him. 

Puppies are great but a lot of work. Look for a teenager or a young adult IMHO!


----------



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I would do as you are doing now which is to continue to educate yourself about the GSD as well as any other breed you might consider. One key to sucess is to match your lifestyle with the traits of a given breed. You must be honest with yourself when answering questions such as 'Do I have time to raise a puppy?' 'Am I going to be able to provide the dog with the excercise they require?' (if you don't they might become very destructive). Its completely ok to answer no to these questions. Perhaps theres another breed that would best suit your needs. (This is written to anyone-not you, I'm just trying to write quickly here.) 

If your house is normally spotless are you and/or your SO prepared to have dog hair on everything? 

As far as getting a dog to protect you from your 'psycho family member'....forget it. If you get a dog it is YOUR responsibility to protect them. Only too often I've sceen problems begin when people let the dog take charge and 'protect them' and end with the dog being 'rehomed' because he/she bit someone they shouldn't have. 

IMHO you can't get a better dog than a GSD-I have three. I've also dedicated much of my life to them and making sure their needs are met. I wake up early to spend time with them before work, after work its right home to spend each and every evening outside excercising them until its dark. Keep doing your reseach, asking questions and finding out as much as you can. 

Best of luck,


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Gretchen said:


> *This is just me speaking, but I would have concerns about a GSD and small children.* I don't think it would hurt your children, but other children coming over, may knock them down and get a little protective of your kids once the GSD was older. Small children can be unpredictable. Hopefully a good breeder could pick out a good pup for your family dynamics. GSD's are the most loyal breed, I don't know how it would do alone all day. My neighbor uses a doggy daycare while she works.
> 
> A boxer is a high energy dog, I can't see it being alone 9 hours a day, do you have time for a good jog before going to work? For a family with small children around and parents working all day I think the French Bulldogs are a great choice, but not known to be protective.



Are you kidding me??? Concerns around a small child?? Beause it's a GSD???? That upsets me VERY MUCH, you have to watch ANY DOG, ANY BREED, ANY AGE, ANY SIZE around children all the time!! ANY PUPPY is going to be excited and knock a child over, thats why you MONITER. My daughter was the early year of two when we got Killian, yea he knocked her over, but within a week they both learned to avoid each other when they were excited, so neither got hurt. A boxer can just as much injure a child alone and unattended as a GSD can, just like a rotti, a poodle, a papillion, and a border collie.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If you're open to rescuing, Austin is a GREAT place to be. Check out
Austin German Shepherd Dog Rescue
and 
German Shepherd Rescue of Central Texas

both have their dogs in a foster-home type situation, so you can talk to the foster family and find out about the dog's health, temperament, how the dog does with small dogs and children, etc.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I was hoping you'd find this thread, Emoore. Thanks for posting those links.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

given what i've learned about you and your family and situation, i would recommend looking into rescuing an adult. A good rescue will have foster homes who know the dogs. With an adult, what you see is what you get. GSD puppies can be overwhelming, even for experienced owners. We affectionately call them land sharks, fuzzy gators, german shredders, german shedders.... They require a great deal of work in the form of training, exercise, socialization, more training, more exercise, more socialization. Everyone has to be on the same page with training. And as far as kids and GSDs not being a good fit for small kids.... 

so far from the truth. 















































Yes, some breeds arent thrilled with kids as a rule BUT well bred, well socialized GSDs can be the best friend your kids will ever have!!! As long as you're honest with the breeder or rescue from the beginning, they can and will find the dog for you. Stick around, learn about the breed, and read the puppy section. There are also dogs regularly posted in the urgent section in need of a loving home from shelters.

Adults from rescues will have their personality know,they'll be potty trained and they'll be past the teething stage, along with have some basic training.


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

kzoppa said:


> giyes, some breeds arent thrilled with kids as a rule but *well bred, well socialized gsds can be the best friend your kids will ever have*!!! As long as you're honest with the breeder or rescue from the beginning, they can and will find the dog for you.


thank you!! :d:d


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

[Off topic]- KZoppa, you make me so jealous that I don't have kids yet for my pooch to enjoy!  Wonderful photos!


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

1>>>> you have to watch the puppy and the children
constantly when they're together. if something
happens it's you and the wifes fault.

2>>>> with training and socializing you can
have the type dog you want. it's all up to you.

3>>>> is there any one that can come
in during the day to give the puppy a break.
find a friend, neighbor or family member to help
out. do you have time for a puppy? do you know how to train
and socialize??

4>>>> you can expect out of it whatever you
put into it. find a puppy then a trainer
and go from there. you and your family have to fit
into your dogs life. lots of sacrifices are in order.

5>>>> bonding, training and socializing does it.
you and your family have train and socialize so
you can have the type dog you want.




Keldor said:


> 1>>>> One is 6 and the other is 8.
> 
> 2>>>>I'm looking for a dog that is protective but not overly protective.
> 
> ...


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I raised a gsd mix rescue from a puppy with three children under the age of six! They all rolled around, tripped on each other, and snuggled together. She went sledding, hiking playing, basically went wherever the kids went. Well, we all went together. No one was unsupervised!!

Kids do socialize dogs very well!!

But, be prepared to spend evenings excersing the puppy. Playing with it, teaching it manners, etc. No plopping down to watch TV. Your nights wil not be your own for a long time. 

Good luck in your search!!


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

wildo said:


> [Off topic]- KZoppa, you make me so jealous that I don't have kids yet for my pooch to enjoy!  Wonderful photos!


 
thank you!


----------



## Kevin W (May 3, 2011)

Everything you are asking for in GSD depends on how YOU train him/her. You can spend $8500 on a top of the line GSD puppy or any puppy for that matter, but none of that matters if you can't train it correctly. 

Just scratch that breeder off the list you posted.

My fiance's parent's English Mastiff is very gentle with my 1 year old daughter because she has been taught to be gentle around her.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

We don't have kids so our dogs aren't around them much. But Dena LOVED kids, especially babies. She was as gentle as could be, and she just lit up around them. This is at a music festival in Golden Gate Park, with a little girl who was a total stranger:




























She was 100% reliable around kids. And this is Cassidy, the first time she'd ever been around a toddler, my husband's cousin's little girl:




























There's a board member who has 4 kids and just got her second GSD. She also has 2 little dogs - a yorkie and I think the other one is a chihuahua.


----------



## Kevin W (May 3, 2011)

And welcome to the forum! This forum is very informative and you will learn a lot. Good luck with your hunt on whatever dog you decide to get.


----------



## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

I would just like to welcome you to the forum! You are in good hands here. Please keep us updated on whatever decision you make.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

the point is, with kids, a well bred stable minded dog who is socialized positively is a good dog. Some GSDs have not been raised around kids but are drawn to them for attention. GSDs are protective within reason but their presence alone is usually enough of a deterant. They are a watchful breed which is why socialization is so critical and constant along with constant training. Kids and GSDs.... for me they go hand in hand. I cant tell you how many times i've found my daughter snuggled up with one of the dogs when they think nobody is looking. My son is a bit more reserved with the dogs (he's currently more of a cat person lol) because my pup gets excited sometimes and forgets to watch where she's swinging her behind so my son or my daughter will occassionally get knocked over. No grudges. The dogs are still the first ones the kids run to see when we get home from the store or some place.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Debbie ~ those are some great pictures!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone. There is a rescue that has a 12 week old GSD puppy that I'm interested in. I am prepared for the sacrifice and feel like raising a GSD would be very rewarding to both me and my family. My comment about a "psycho family member" was made in jest. I would love nothing more than to have a dog that will run with me, that I could train, and at the end of the day, lay down next to me and the family while we unwind. 

Just to make things clear, here is my work schedule: Monday - Friday 8 am - 4 pm. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to get to and from work depending on traffic. I normally go to bed around 11:00 pm. Some night the boys have football / soccer practice and I'm fine with bringing the dog with me to those if it would help to socialize him with children. Is that enough time to walk, train, play, and unwind with a GSD? How many times during the day do I need to walk it? I could fit time in the morning before work if I need to.

Thanks again to everybody. I would really like this to work if I decide to go through with it.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Keldor said:


> Thanks everyone. There is a rescue that has a 12 week old GSD puppy that I'm interested in. I am prepared for the sacrifice and feel like raising a GSD would be very rewarding to both me and my family. My comment about a "psycho family member" was made in jest. I would love nothing more than to have a dog that will run with me, that I could train, and at the end of the day, lay down next to me and the family while we unwind.
> 
> Just to make things clear, here is my work schedule: Monday - Friday 8 am - 4 pm. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to get to and from work depending on traffic. I normally go to bed around 11:00 pm. Some night the boys have football / soccer practice and I'm fine with bringing the dog with me to those if it would help to socialize him with children. Is that enough time to walk, train, play, and unwind with a GSD? How many times during the day do I need to walk it? I could fit time in the morning before work if I need to.
> 
> Thanks again to everybody. I would really like this to work if I decide to go through with it.


 

sporting activities are a great way to socialize because of all the activity. Just keep in mind it can also be overwhelming with all the sights and sounds but still a good way to socialize. Always remember, it is YOUR job to protect your dog from obnoxious kids, obnoxious people and negative situations. A great many people here work full time jobs. With a 12 week old puppy, its easier to leave them crated for a longer period but it would still be wise to have someone come let him out for a potty break and some bit of play time to avoid accidents in the crate and to burn off some energy. And try to only socialize with nice, well behaved dogs as well. GSDs are not very good dog park dogs. They tend to have a dominant personality around other dogs and wont take any nonsense if another dog wants to be obnoxious or start something with them. They may not start something but they're certainly gonna finish it if they feel it necessary, hence one of the reasons dog parks arent the best choice for socialization. Also dog parks, often times the dogs arent exactly behaved or nicely socialized and can be tramatizing to a puppy or even an adult dog. Just some info for you in case you were thinking dog park!!! Some of us (like myself) will occassionally do a dog park trip but its usually at a time of the day when there wont be too many people or other dogs. As far as how many times you need to walk your dog a day... well that really depends on the dog. Some people can get away with a couple 30-40 minute walks a day at a brisk pace while others have to do way more. If you can find a nice fenced in area for off leash running it will help.... but be sure to practice recall no matter what! it could save your dogs life one day to have good recall.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

By recall, you mean being able to call them back to you? You must have read my mind about the dog park. I'm thinking, maybe put a muzzle on her when I go out until I'm confident that I have her under control.


----------



## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Keldor said:


> By recall, you mean being able to call them back to you? You must have read my mind about the dog park. I'm thinking, maybe put a muzzle on her when I go out until I'm confident that I have her under control.


 
Yes, she means being able to call your dog back to you. This is one command that's extremely important. I don't think you are gonna need a muzzle though.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Keldor said:


> By recall, you mean being able to call them back to you? You must have read my mind about the dog park. I'm thinking, maybe put a muzzle on her when I go out until I'm confident that I have her under control.


 
yes, recall is the dog coming to you when you call 100% of the time which requires you to practice in all kinds of situations (on leash!!!). No to the muzzle. Muzzles should ONLY be used when you have a biter in public like trips to the vet. A well socialized dog shouldnt need a muzzle, especially not a puppy! Not to mention muzzles, if used in a dog park, can actually increase aggression, make the dog more reactive and if another dog takes a dislike to yours, you've also removed their only line of defense. Muzzles are training tools and safety tools. If you're not confident from the start, you're setting not only yourself up for failure but the puppy as well. There should be absolutely no reason to use a muzzle unless you have reasonable cause to do so. With Zena, the ONLY reason she was muzzled was when we went to the vet because the first vet we took her too... didnt treat her too well. Switched vets and not had a problem since. Riley has to be muzzled because he doesnt like vets due to some dog park incidents that resulted in vet trips that meant stitches and just very unpleasant experiences. 

We used to go to the dog park often because we lived in an apartment so didnt have a backyard available to let them run and play. A saint bernard took an extreme dislike of Riley and would go after him any time she saw him. Never saw her at the park until she was on him. She darn near killed him one time. He had NEVER done anything to her. He never tried to be friends with her or play with her or anything. She just did NOT like him. Dog parks can actually be more dangerous for your pet than a lot of other places because of the potential for a serious dog fight but then you throw in the potential for catching any number of illnesses. You also never know if the other dogs have been vaccinated, healthy or friendly. Its just too much of a risk, especially for a puppy. 

Puppies naturally nip and bite. Training helps, along with exercise. A tired puppy is a good puppy.


----------



## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Krystal the first half of your paragraph was screaming through my head! Thanks for putting that out there!  Thumbs Up!!


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Keldor said:


> Just to make things clear, here is my work schedule: Monday - Friday 8 am - 4 pm. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to get to and from work depending on traffic. I normally go to bed around 11:00 pm. Some night the boys have football / soccer practice and I'm fine with bringing the dog with me to those if it would help to socialize him with children. Is that enough time to walk, train, play, and unwind with a GSD? How many times during the day do I need to walk it? I could fit time in the morning before work if I need to.


Your schedule is better than mine.  Most days, I leave the house around 7am and get home at 5pm and go to bed around 10pm. I am also in Grad school and have a dog walker come in on those days. BUT, my dogs are also adults. I had that schedule when Raven was a puppy which made house breaking take longer because she simply couldn't hold it in her crate. I also don't have kids (I'm unclear if you have a spouse or not at this point) to worry about.

My evenings are spent training and walking the dogs and then we'll relax and watch TV. Weekends we go on long hikes or dog events and attend training class. 

Your dog should ideally be walked twice a day (AM and PM) along with play time and several short training sessions. Sometimes we can't do it and the dogs are forgiving but expect something to be chewed out of boredom. I had a roommate when Raven was young and she could always tell when I didn't get Raven out for enough exercise because Raven would get rammy.

I'm also going to disagree with everyone about _why_ a muzzle should be worn. I think it's a great idea for all dogs to be desensitized to wearing a muzzle because you just never know when they'll need it. But, there are many other reasons for having one on other than the dog being a biter. 

I do agree that you likely won't need one when socializing her (not a dog park fan unless you find a really good one with the same dogs everyday). Having one on her in a dog park situation could cause unnecessary stress for her and have the opposite effect. Dogs communicate with their mouths a lot so taking that away from her can make her vulnerable (especially when she hasn't done anything to make her need it yet).

It's all about your confidence when training and socializing. If you expect her to bite, she'll feel your tension and think something is wrong. Keep training and socializing fun, relaxed, short and always end on a good note.


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm going to echo here what the other said - GSD's that are socialized with kids are GREAT family pets. I have a 9 month old son and 2 GSD's and one Belgian Malinois that are EXCELLENT with our son. They are very friendly, very gentle and very loving towards him. They have no reason to be "protective" of him. That's what we are here for.

I also have an almost 4 yr old nephew that is over regularly and they are just as good with him as with our own son. There will be no problems with my sons friends as he grows up, they are great with the neighbor kids and any kid we meet.


----------



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Just wanted to wish you the best of luck. I love the pictures that were posted of dogs and kids. Welcome to the boards and keep asking questions.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Not to be a downer here, but don't get your hopes set too high on adopting this specific puppy. Rescues often have waiting lists for pups, especially purebred ones. It's not unusual to have 8 or 10 applications on one puppy.


----------



## JackB03 (May 12, 2011)

*Imho*

Ive had a few dogs growing up, so I thought it would be nice to have a dog when me and my wife(with two kids that are 6 and 4) bought our house. We found a GSD puppy. We work from 6am-230pm. We had a friend come over to let him out and to feed him. Let me give you some advice. Since he was our first pet, we knew nothing. And for working all day, I would def get an older dog. It has been a big hassle dealing with our puppy. Not that we dont love it, but we are still learning about dogs. Our puppy bites and chews alot! They go through a teething period and they bite at everthing due to playing. 

Start out getting an older dog. 1-3 years old maybe. Get used to the breed and become a better dog owner. Im not saying your a bad one, but you probably lack knowledge. Later on down the line, take on a puppy then. Trust me, coming home from work, after being up with your puppy at 3am so he can pee, can be tiring after a while. Because once you get tired, you wont feel like doing much when you get home. And your puppy will be into everything. 

I vote an older pure breed GSD!!! Good luck!


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Good point, JackB. GSD puppies are pretty much little sharks with fur. They bite ALL THE TIME.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Good point, JackB. GSD puppies are pretty much little sharks with fur. They bite ALL THE TIME.


HA...that is the biggest understatement of the year! I went to my annual physical last week...and the nurse asked me if I felt "safe" at home! I said, yes, why? She said she couldn't help noticing all of the bruses and scratches on my arms! I just laughed and said "Yes...I feel COMPLETELY safe... my GSD puppy would protect me from anyone...except herself!"


----------



## JackB03 (May 12, 2011)

LOL its funny sometimes, but does get VERY frustrating after saying NO a million times. Its like talking to a wall hehe. Also, my kids kinda fear him because he nips at them to play! I cant wait until teething is over!!!


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Ha...yes! I am worried that Cheyenne will start thinking her name is "NO!"


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Emoore said:


> Good point, JackB. GSD puppies are pretty much little sharks with fur. They bite ALL THE TIME.


Sure......if you let them.


----------



## MegansGrace (Apr 27, 2011)

I would always monitor your kids with your puppy/dog, even as an adult. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I trust dogs to be dogs and children to be children so that means that I will be monitoring their every move to make sure nothing bad happens no matter how well they get along. 

I agree with everyone else about the crating while at work: it'd be best to have someone come and let the puppy out a couple times during the day. 

I raised my lab puppy during college which was both great and hectic. I'd walk home in between all my classes to bring him out. In terms of housebreaking it was awesome! 

I think most dogs raised with kids do well with them, but I just want to throw out my 2 cents about kids and dogs. My lab is now 1.5 year old and I have socialized him, brought to training, dog park, etc. and even though he's a happy-go-lucky lab, he's not good with kids. If kids are in the dog park, we can't go in. He's too rambunctious and likes to play with them as if their dogs. He's reactive to their screaming/jumping/running . I don't mean this in a aggressive, horrible way, but definitely where a small child could get hurt since he's 80lbs of muscle and likes to play rough. This is even though he was socialized with them as a puppy. He simply cannot be trusted with them. He's fantastic with people though, I bring him everywhere with me. I'm just saying not *all* dogs are good with kids, but some, obviously, are wonderful them. 

I wish you the best of luck with your upcoming GSD puppy!!  Dogs make wonderful family members!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Everyone in this thread has been invaluable and I have learned so much from everyone, so thank you. I have submitted my application to adopt a rescue GSD and at the same time I have been researching and speaking to different breeders. If I can't find one suitable to adopt, then I plan on researching and asking questions on how to raise a puppy. I've spoken with my mom and sister, and both said they would be willing to come home during the day and let the puppy out and allow her to run around the yard for a while. I'm hoping and praying that everything works out and will be in this thread asking questions and advice. I appreciate all the help and hope to share stories and pictures with everyone here.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

well here is your congrats early! we cant wait to hear how things go whether you adopt or go through a breeder. and we're picture nuts so cant wait to see many of those too!


----------



## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

Keldor said:


> Everyone in this thread has been invaluable and I have learned so much from everyone, so thank you. I have submitted my application to adopt a rescue GSD and at the same time I have been researching and speaking to different breeders. If I can't find one suitable to adopt, then I plan on researching and asking questions on how to raise a puppy. I've spoken with my mom and sister, and both said they would be willing to come home during the day and let the puppy out and allow her to run around the yard for a while. I'm hoping and praying that everything works out and will be in this thread asking questions and advice. I appreciate all the help and hope to share stories and pictures with everyone here.


Well, congratulations and yes we definately want pictures when you get your new family member. Good luck to you on your search.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

I've been spending a lot of time on Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free streaming videos, DVDs and Free Dog Training ebooks
I have so much to learn.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Keldor said:


> I've been spending a lot of time on Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free streaming videos, DVDs and Free Dog Training ebooks
> I have so much to learn.


 
with german shepherds... you will CONSTANTLY be learning.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

One question. I'm reading about giving the dog corrections, such as when he growls at my kids or refuses to listen to me but I'm not sure what those questions are. How do you guys give your dogs corrections? I've also read about prong collars which looks terrifying. I'm assumig they are only needed if you have severe dominance issues?


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Keldor said:


> One question. I'm reading about giving the dog corrections, such as when he growls at my kids or refuses to listen to me but I'm not sure what those questions are. How do you guys give your dogs corrections? I've also read about prong collars which looks terrifying. I'm assumig they are only needed if you have severe dominance issues?


 
someone more qualified than i will hopefully answer the question about the dog growling at kids. We had that issue with Riley because he'd not been around kids so didnt really understand them before my kids were born. We just kept correcting him and telling him no and removing him from the fun. This was before i found this site though. 

as far as prong collars, they're safer and far less terrifying than a slip chain/choke chain. Choke chains can actually cause pretty serious damage to the dogs neck. I've known a few dogs who actually died from complications caused from using a choke chain. Prong collars are training tools. they have to be properly fitted otherwise they wont work. Leerberg.com has videos regarding properly fitting a prong collar but having never done it yourself, i would suggest having an experienced trainer help you, NOT a petstore employee because they dont have a clue what they're doing most times. I used prong collars on my dogs, as do many others on this site. It helps make leash training a great deal easier when the pup is old enough to use one (no younger than 6 months old but preferably no younger than 8 months old). My pup Shasta is not dominant or aggressive but we use a prong collar for her because it helps manage walks. Riley simply refuses even after training to walk properly so his prong is used for slightly harsher corrections when a verbal correction doesnt work for him somedays. Also some dogs require a harder correction when training than others. All depends on the dog. I've known dogs who dont ever have a prong collar around on because they didnt need that particular training device.


----------



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Prong collars are much more gentle than they sound. Instead Choking with a choke collar or constantly tugging with a flat collar..all you need is a slight pull and the dog will slow down, pay attention.

So much nicer.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

What do you guys do for hard corrections, say if the dog were to bite or growl. I know you don't hit the dog, but do you shake them or something? I keep reading about "corrections" but don't know how that is applied.


----------



## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

For biting and growling, I would not recommend a "correction" such as a leash pop or prong collar pop at all. Aggressive behaviors such as biting and growling are usually rooted in something else - fear, pain, discomfort - and they are only a symptom of the problem. You have to treat the cause, not the symptom, figure out what's causing the dog to bite or growl. 

If you only correct a growl (which serves as a warning) you could end up with a dog that's a silent biter - he won't warn you with a growl before he bites, he'll just bite out of nowhere, because you're correcting him for the ACT of growling. You need to figure out the root, whether it's because someone is stepping on his tail, or if he has resource guarding issues and someone is too close to his food/toys/person, etc. We have an aggression section on this board that's very helpful, I would suggest you read through it if you're concerned about aggression. 

You haven't gotten your dog yet, correct? If you go to a reputable breeder or rescue and are matched with a dog with good temperament and nerves, and are a fair and strong leader to him/her, there should not be any reason for why the dog would be growling or biting you or your kids for no reason. That's why people on here are so crazy about going to a breeder with experience and knowledge about the breed and lines, instead of going to any old "breeder" placing an ad in the newspaper for "German Shepard puppies $250."


----------



## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

A prong collar isn't for "dominance" issues. It's a training tool to teach the dog to respond lighter to the lead.

Think of it like a bit in a horses mouth. If used abusively, it'll hurt and cause fear. If used properly, it teaches the animal to respond to the rein (like the leash) lightly and responsively.


----------



## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

But to answer your question - for hard corrections, you can either do a hard leash pop if the dog is wearing a collar and leash, or you can use a verbal correction such as "No!" or "eh-eh!" I've always found that verbal corrections are a lot more effective than leash pops, because nothing devastates a GSD more than knowing that it's displeased its master. These dogs live, breathe, and exist solely to be around their people and to interact with them, so it's far worse to be told "No" by their master than getting a correction on a flat or prong collar. My dog can take a whopper of a prong correction and still not be phased, but when I tell him "No" or "Bad dog!" (this is probably the worst thing I could do to him), he will get very visibly upset and stop whatever he's doing, regardless of how enjoyable it is, and come over to me, ears back, tail low and wagging. I really only give these "hard" corrections for things that are not acceptable, such as bothering the cat or counter surfing - neither of which he's done since he was a puppy after being verbally corrected.

Some people will grab the dog by the scruff as a correction, other people may chime in with their different methods of correction. As you said, you definitely should not hit the dog or do any of that nonsense like rubbing his nose in feces/trash/whatever as a correction - that doesn't really teach the dog anything other than to be afraid of you.

Btw - prongs look scary but they're really not that bad. Way better than a choke collar, as those can damage the trachea. Prongs are useful because you can control the severity of the correction, it can vary from a gentle pressure to a severe leash pop, so it's a good method of communicating with your dog. You can try putting one on your arm or leg to see when you're at a pet store. It would only be bad if you sharpened the prongs, but thankfully very few reasonably-minded people do that.


----------



## webzpinner (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi Keldor! I also recommend a rescue adult GSD. I got Jake off of craigslist. I have two small kids, 6 and 4. Jake was just about to turn 2, so most of the puppy issues had resolved themselves already, his personality was already developed, and best of all, no 2am "puppy misses mommy" howling! Also, we didn't have to pay the $300 to $1500 that are charged for a puppy, which I personally refuse to do ever again (I once paid $600 for a purebred Pomeranian puppy).


As for how Jake interacts with our kids, my wife and I monitor any and all interactions between the dog and kids. We'd be that way regardless if it were a chihuahua or a shepherd. My kids are very gentle with the dog, and Jake loves their attention. The only real concerns we ever have with Jake is his "mouthing" hands as a greeting, and his occasional "hyper mode" where he races around at breakneck speeds and doesn't pay attention to his surroundings. We've been working on breaking him of these habits, as they are simply inexcusable around the kids.


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Leerburg has a lot of great info but I think some of it is dated and I do not agree with some of their methods.

IMO puppy training should be positive only. Clicker training is AWESOME! Verbal corrections (eheh). Keep training sessions short and fun. Your pup will learn listening to you is awesome and stay engaged with you. 

Same with an older dog, unless it needs a harsher correction. No dog should be corrected if it hasn't learned the appropriate behavior. Prongs are training tools, there are many other more postive training tools as well. I'm not against using a prong but I don't think it should be a go to training method..not for a pet. I would not use one without the aid of a *knowledgeable* trainer. I bolded that because I've seen trainers who can't even fit one properly. 

Some dogs will shut down if you give too harsh a correction. Many people do not give appropriate corrections either and just nag the dog until it decides to just ignore you. Then they will give a severe correction for something that doesn't warrant it. I think working with your dog in a positive way to figure out what works is best. You'll also have a better idea of what situations may require a harsher correction without confusing your dog prior to that. Some are not so forgiving of handler mistakes.


----------



## Smoktya (Jun 8, 2010)

Our GSD Female is 11 months old and just absolutely loves my kids (11, 8 and 5). Every morning she hops on my son's bed and gives him kisses to wake him up. They cuddle together and she can forget sometimes how big she is, but we are a unit and i can't be more satisfied in my choice of dogs. Like you, I always wanted my own GSD and we finally have her. Just make sure you read the forums and get tips on how to become the Leader in your house. It makes for a well balanced family.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Keldor said:


> What do you guys do for hard corrections, say if the dog were to bite or growl. I know you don't hit the dog, but do you shake them or something? I keep reading about "corrections" but don't know how that is applied.


I think you're over-worrying the biting or growling thing. I've fostered over 20 dogs through a rescue group and have never been bitten. I've had to clip toenails and give pills to stray dogs that were shy and scared around people and never been bitten. Dogs will commonly "mouth" your hands, which is almost like a mouth hug, and puppies often give playful nips, but for a dog to bite a human is actually quite rare.

I've only been growled at a very few times and each time the dog was either in fear or pain.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Looks like my search has begun. I'm going to meet a 6 month GSD that is currently living with a a family of 5. 2 Adults and 3 children which are my kids' age. The puppy lives outside there and comes in and sits on furniture, sleeps in beds, etc. Also sounded like he's a little unruly. I've spent the last couple of weeks reading, studying, and watching videos to help prepare but the fact remains that this will still be my first dog. I know that I have a lot to learn but I am trying. Since the dog is 6 months old, based on my living situation and M-F schedule, would this work out? I'm willing to crate train and house break this puppy (who is not housebroken) and walk her on weekdays and a few times a day on weekends. I will also spend time with it in the backyard teaching it the basics.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Pic:


----------



## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

I have a 4mos old GSD female and she does great with my 3yr old son. She also likes all other children that she meets. In fact, she thinks all children are her friend, and approaches random children in public (on leash of course) expecting affection. I am very pleased with her temperament and how her socialization is going. She is being very easy to train, and is extremely intelligent. She is alot of work though...

Occasionally when she gets alittle hyper she will knock my son over, but it has only happened a couple of times and its never intentional. She is very gentle with him, and tolerates his exuberance for her. He loves nothing more than to hug her and play with her toys with her, and she seems to know to play softer with him. 

That said, 9 hours is way too long to be crated. I am lucky in that someone is always home here, so Abbie always has someone. We do crate at night, but we don't even have to shut the door anymore.

Another thing to consider is that the 5mos-1yr period is basically doggy adolescence and they can be quite a handful. They test their limits at this age, and need alot of guidance. But with alittle patience and alot of love, it's worth it in the end.

All that said, I would suggest an older dog. A young GSD needs alot of time. There are alot of great adult GSDs out there that need homes, and they won't need so much work.


----------



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Keldor said:


> Looks like my search has begun. I'm going to meet a 6 month GSD that is currently living with a a family of 5. 2 Adults and 3 children which are my kids' age. The puppy lives outside there and comes in and sits on furniture, sleeps in beds, etc. Also sounded like he's a little unruly. I've spent the last couple of weeks reading, studying, and watching videos to help prepare but the fact remains that this will still be my first dog. I know that I have a lot to learn but I am trying. Since the dog is 6 months old, based on my living situation and M-F schedule, would this work out? I'm willing to crate train and house break this puppy (who is not housebroken) and walk her on weekdays and a few times a day on weekends. I will also spend time with it in the backyard teaching it the basics.


I think an adult dog would be better. This puppy will be able to hold it longer than an 8-12wk old baby but it sounds like these owners haven't taught the dog anything. You will have to teach it to behave in the house since it is an outside puppy. If the dog isn't even potty trained yet I doubt it has much basic obedience. Often the dog gets stuck outside because the owners don't know how to teach the dog or provide what the dog needs. Dog becomes a pain so it gets put outside.

Now there is a 6 month old pup with no manners, probably very little socialization outside the home, little to no training...sounds like more work than a baby pup.

With a baby pup you build a training foundation. Then adolescence comes and you repeat everything :crazy:. 

If you are up for the work then go for it, but this pup deserves to find a forever home. Not to get rehomed after a few months with family #1 then to a new home that wasn't prepared for the work so here comes family #3 and so on..


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Canceled my appointment with this dog. After much thought, I'm thinking I might just go for a Labrador Retriever for now to get me started before I move on to a GSD. Maybe once I've practiced with a lab and once my children are older, I will add a GSD. I know everyone here are big time GSD fans but does what I'm trying to do make sense or is owning a GSD vastly different?


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Keldor said:


> Since the dog is 6 months old, based on my living situation and M-F schedule, would this work out? I'm willing to crate train and house break this puppy (who is not housebroken) and walk her on weekdays and a few times a day on weekends. I will also spend time with it in the backyard teaching it the basics.


Like many others here, I would urge you to look at adult dogs. A 6 month old puppy that hasn't been taught anything is going to be like starting out with an 8 week old anyway...with the exception that the 6 month old will be able to hold bowel and bladder for a longer period of time. But there is more to dog ownership than housebreaking.

The crate training and house breaking are just a small part of raising a dog. You need to spend more time than working on basics in the back yard. You need to get your puppy out and about in the wider community every single day to socialize and train. Not a couple of walks around the neighborhood every day, where you will see the same people every day. You need to get out and expose your puppy to new (read "different") people every day. Even when it is yucky outside, even when you are bone tired from work and even when you have other plans.

Training basics in the back yard will give you a great pet...in your back yard. So even though you will never intend to compete in any kind of trial or show with your dog, you still need to get out there and find a great trainer who offers classes where you get to train with other people and their dogs. Not training from one of the big box stores that offers training along with piddle pads and candy filled racks at the check out line. You want to find a real trainer that knows what they are doing. And then you need to get out there in the wider world and practice what you're learning. The back yard will not cut it. And once you have trained your dog, you need to work at maintaining that training with continued learning and practice for the rest of the dog's life.

Look at dogs in rescue that are 3-4 years old, maybe a little older. You want a dog that has been in a foster home for at least a month (which is enough time for the foster parent to get a good, realistic feel for the dog's behavior and temperament). Let the reputable rescue match the dog to you. With such limited dog owning experience, you really don't have the skills to make a good match yourself. And people on an internet forum, no matter how well meaning, can't help you pick the right one based on a picture and the information that a possibly clueless seller gives you. You might get lucky and find a nice older puppy in the paper or Craigslist, but if you did it would be by accident. And don't you have a lot riding on this experience turning out well? You'll be showing your wife that the German Shepherd Dog is the best breed EVER and you want this to be such a success that the thought of a Boxer never even enters her mind again (even if a GSD will lay down a layer of shed fur like nothing she has EVER seen). 

But, more importantly, you want your children to learn that bringing a pet into your home is a considered and carefully planned occurrence that often takes a long time. Because matching the right pet in the right home should be given just as much effort and thought as picking anything else that will be an integral part of your family. After all, the hope is that you'll have that pet for years and years. and that it will have a place in your home (and not the back yard) and hearts. 

And then, after gaining dog experience with your adult rescue and by using the connections that you have made through training and living with your dog, then you'll have the opportunity to find a real life mentor who will help steer you in the right direction when it is time to add a puppy.

Good luck! You are at such an exciting cross road here! The possibilities are really endless for you and your family.
Sheilah
P.S. I just wanted to add that the work of raising and training a great companion is really the same for any breed. A Lab is going to have the same socializing and training needs as a GSD. Will public perception of a barking Lab be different from that of a barking GSD? Sure. But that Lab can be just as problematic if the work isn't done.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Keldor said:


> Canceled my appointment with this dog. After much thought, I'm thinking I might just go for a Labrador Retriever for now to get me started before I move on to a GSD. Maybe once I've practiced with a lab and once my children are older, I will add a GSD. I know everyone here are big time GSD fans but does what I'm trying to do make sense or is owning a GSD vastly different?


Why do you think a Lab will be easier???? :thinking: From my experience (I used to foster Labs for a while) Labs have a LOT of energy and they are big chewers. So I'm not sure why you think a Lab will be better than a GSD as your first dog. The key to success here is not the breed, but getting a puppy/older dog from either a reputable breeder or a good rescue that can tell you what the dog is like (no surprises later) so your are matched with the right puppy/adult dog. Then finding the right trainer to help you through.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Very nice read! I just ordered some videos off of Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free streaming videos, DVDs and Free Dog Training ebooks to help in learning. You're right that I would want my wife to love having a GSD just as much as me. I would be training any dog that I get, the same way, just that there would be more room for error with a lab. Maybe once I'm experienced enough, I'll be able to take what I've learned and apply that to a GSD. On top of all that, my kids will be a little older. I really want a GSD and that is be my ultimate goal.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Keldor said:


> ... just that there would be more room for error with a lab.


Really??? How is that??? :thinking:


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Why do you think a Lab will be easier???? :thinking: From my experience (I used to foster Labs for a while) Labs have a LOT of energy and they are big chewers. So I'm not sure why you think a Lab will be better than a GSD as your first dog. The key to success here is not the breed, but getting a puppy/older dog from either a reputable breeder or a good rescue that can tell you what the dog is like (no surprises later) so your are matched with the right puppy/adult dog. Then finding the right trainer to help you through.


Hm. From what I've been reading, it sounded like they would be a better fit. So training a lab or GSD would be exactly the same? Would the lab do better being alone when I'm at work? None of my decisions are concrete yet. I'm thankful that I have experienced dog owners such as yourself to help me and anyone else reading out.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Keldor said:


> That would be great. I live in Austin, TX.


I'm sorry, although we have shipped puppies to TX, we are on the east coast so I'm not familiar with reputable breeders in TX. However, there are plenty of people on this board from TX, I'm sure someone can recommend a good breeder that would match you up with the right puppy.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Keldor said:


> So training a lab or GSD would be exactly the same? Would the lab do better being alone when I'm at work? None of my decisions are concrete yet. I'm thankful that I have experienced dog owners such as yourself to help me and anyone else reading out.


Not the same, GSDs are smarter and will learn quicker. 

Leaving a lab or GSD puppy alone will be the same.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Keldor said:


> Hm. From what I've been reading, it sounded like they would be a better fit.


What exactly about a Lab would be a better fit for you and your lifestyle? It could be that a well trained and well socialized Labrador would be a better fit than a well trained and well socialized German Shepherd Dog. 

What is it about a Lab that might make it a better fit? 
Sheilah


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Sounded like (and this is just from talking to Lab owners) that they would be more child friendly, didn't require as much exercise, and when adults would be more ok with me being at work during the day. If this is not the case, then I'd much rather have a GSD since it is my first choice.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

This is going to be my first dog, other than our chihuahua so I do not have much experience. Although, I have been reading, watching videos, listening to Podcasts, every day for the last couple of weeks trying to educate myself.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Keldor said:


> Sounded like (and this is just from talking to Lab owners) that they would be more child friendly, didn't require as much exercise, and when adults would be more ok with me being at work during the day. If this is not the case, then I'd much rather have a GSD since it is my first choice.


Not true at all.

Both Labradors and GSDs are very popular breed (in the top 3 most AKC registered breeds). Because of this you have to be VERY careful with Back-yard-breeders. You can get a GSD with issues just as easy as a Lab with issues if gone to the wrong "breeder". And the same goes for health issues like hip dysplasia. Very common in both breeds.

A well bred GSD will be great with kids. Both GSDs and Labs require about the same amount of exercise. And they both will be perfectly fine at home as adult while you are at work.

Don't get me wrong, I love Labs and hope to have one some day, but to say they are easier than a GSD is BS. Sorry.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Keldor said:


> Sounded like (and this is just from talking to Lab owners) that they would be more child friendly, didn't require as much exercise, and when adults would be more ok with me being at work during the day. If this is not the case, then I'd much rather have a GSD since it is my first choice.


No. Labs need just as much exercise as any other breed of that type/size (if anything, a Lab might even need MORE exercise than a GSD...I have fostered a few Labs that NEVER got tired), and there is nothing inherent in that breed that makes them naturally better with children. 

It all goes back to the need to train and socialize. They all need it. Even little lap dogs should be trained and exercised appropriately.

Here is my 7.5 year old male GSD with my niece and nephew. He is about as child friendly as you can get and I would put him up against a Lab in that area any day of the week.
Sheilah


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I really do not think there is a good reason to scare the OP off from getting a GSD. 

Some of you have dogs that require tons of exercise. Not all GSDs do. They require training, and I find I can manage that one night a week in classes. (Yeah, I am one of those people that does not train every single day.) 

Yes 9 hours in a crate is a long time. I am sure that MANY of our members have figured out a way to raise a puppy and work a full-time job. If you have a garage, Maybe you could get a 10'x5' kennel from Tractor Supply Company. Build a platform 2'x4' for the pup to rest off the concrete. Build a small box out of treated wood (make sure it is not toxic -- I think they have stopped using the toxic stuff in wood). The box can be 2'x3-4' and four to six inches high. Put one of those big bails of cedar chips in it. Yes CEDAR chips. I have NEVER had a dog react to cedar, they smell nice and naturally repel bugs. 

Teach the puppy to potty in the wood chip area. You can do this the week end you get him. 

This is an area for your pup while you are at work, a hard rubber ball and a few hard rubber toys, and perhaps a dog house or cot for the pup. Do not put a doggy bed in there or he will chew that up. Plastic and Vinyl toys are also possible chew hazzards. 

When you come home, take the puppy outside and praise him for pottying, than in with the family, and work on house training, kid training. Crate him at night in your bed room until you feel safe letting him have the run of your bedroom with you at night, then you can leave the crate door open -- lots of dogs will sleep in their crate with the door open.

The kennel needs to be cleaned daily of poop, and the wood chips should be switched out every two to four weeks. You can leave a radio running in the garage for company for the puppy. 

This is a method of protecting your pup from the dangers that he will encounter in the house -- oh the things you can chew, but some of them are very dangerous to puppies, wires, blinds, furniture, etc. A pup that size cannot protect your home form burglars, so there is no point in giving him the run of the house, it will make house training a bear to do that, and be very dangerous to the pup.

A small kennel in the garage will allow the pup to potty, and move around and rest while you are gone. While you are there, you are spending time with the puppy. 

If you could crate/x-pen the small dog in the garage near the puppy it will be a whole lot easier for the puppy to manage the time, but it is not 100% necessary. 

Whatever puppy you get needs to be able to potty within a nine hour period. So, if you are willing to set up a panel kennel, even temporarily in your garage it will make things a lot easier all around. 

Good luck.

ETA: crating a dog for that long a time, will make house training harder as the dog will be forced to potty where it sleeps, you will have to clean the dog and the crate every day when you get home and that will not be fun. 

A kennel 10x5' with a designated potty area will keep the pup smelling better and he will be able to relieve himself. A 4'x4' x-pen for the tiny dog should be sufficient for the same time period.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

You guys teach me something new every day. . About how old should the GSD need to be to be ok with staying in the home alone during the day? When I get home and on weekend, my life would be all about training, exercising, and bonding with the dog?


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

The last two puppies I raised at my house by myself I put them in the laundry room (since I didn't have a garage) in a 4ft x 6ft kennel on top of a horse matt. I intruduced them to cedar chips early so I would put a bunch of cedar chips in a coner of the kennel and they would use that as the potty area. Very easy to clean later because of the cedar chips.  If I was able to come home from work during lunch then so be it, but if not, I knew they would be fine till I got home. I work 10 hour days.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> I really do not think there is a good reason to scare the OP off from getting a GSD.
> 
> Some of you have dogs that require tons of exercise. Not all GSDs do. They require training, and I find I can manage that one night a week in classes. (Yeah, I am one of those people that does not train every single day.)
> 
> ...


I can do that. My garage even has A.C. Thanks for the idea. Regardless of what happens, this is goig to be the dog's forever home. Any problems, I might have, I will adjust and research.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> The last two puppies I raised at my house by myself I put them in the laundry room (since I didn't have a garage) in a 4ft x 6ft kennel on top of a horse matt. I intruduced them to cedar chips early so I would put a bunch of cedar chips in a coner of the kennel and they would use that as the potty area. Very easy to clean later because of the cedar chips.  If I was able to come home from work during lunch then so be it, but if not, I knew they would be fine till I got home. I work 10 hour days.


Very good advice! I didn't even know this was an option!


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Yep, I have something like this...

Bronze Series Portable Dog Kennels and Dog Fencing by Options Plus Dog Kennels.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Larger is better if you can. If it is too narrow, the pup will track through whatever he does during the day, that is why the wood chips are so nice. Puppies tend to get it that that is where they should potty. I think I have a photo:










Yes, there is a pup sleeping back there, but even these 3-4 week old pups were keeping the rest of the area clean and pottying in the wood chips. This was their day time kennel, the whelping box and patio with doggy door for the rest of the time.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Very nice! What would you guys suggest is the smallest kennel size I should get?


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Like I said, I had a 4ft by 6 ft and the puppy had plenty of room. If you can get something bigger then even better. It is up to you.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Actually, let me correct that, for the puppies I had it 6ft by 6ft since I was not using 2 of the panels as a roof.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Sounds good. That solves my biggest immediate problem, which is what to do with him/her while I'm at work. I'm hoping with training, the dog will be really sweet and social. Thanks for everything guys.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Actually, let me correct that, for the puppies I had it 6ft by 6ft since I was not using 2 of the panels as a roof.


Got it. I'm looking at different dog kennels right now.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Frankly, a kennel is a beautiful thing. You have kids. And life sometimes throws us hurdles. Rushing from work to the ER for your kids, is always hard. Being there for HOURS. And then if it is serious, maybe both parents want to be there. It just makes it so much easier when you know your pup is not at home TRYING not to potty in its crate. Unable to make it, and then having to lie in that. 

Also, most people do not put water in with the dog, they let the dog drink and eat and potty, and then crate for the day. When they get home, the dog comes out and poties and drinks, etc. 

But in his kennel, with a bucket of water, you do not need to worry about that in an emergency. 

I always let mine out, let them poop, and then kennel them for the day (my kennels are mostly outdoor, but some are inside outside kennels. Today, Babs and Joy did not poop -- this is something I note, but am not worried about. Letting them poop before I kennel for the day, means they do not have the poop in with them all day. Just keeps things cleaner. But if they were crated or loose in the house, and they did not poop before I left for work, then I would have to worry about it. I mean it is not the end of the world if there is an accident, but it is much more pleasant not to walk in and have _that _waft out in greeting. 

I also have the buckets in bucket holders or clipped to the fence so that they cannot be dumped and played with. I swear Bear paddles it out of hers, but there is always enough water when I check it the next day. Then I can dump and refill.

ETA: when a pup/dog is in a crate, the schedule is very important. Stopping for a P/T conference after work will be a hardship. A dog in a kennel, schedule is not AS important.


----------



## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Keldor said:


> Very nice read! I just ordered some videos off of Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free streaming videos, DVDs and Free Dog Training ebooks to help in learning. You're right that I would want my wife to love having a GSD just as much as me. I would be training any dog that I get, the same way, just that there would be more room for error with a lab. Maybe once I'm experienced enough, I'll be able to take what I've learned and apply that to a GSD. On top of all that, my kids will be a little older. I really want a GSD and that is be my ultimate goal.


 
A Lab has no more room for error than a German Shepherd, and are not as intelligent, my sister wanted a Lab, you know, the perfect family dog everyone says, that dog is the biggest, most idiotic, destructive dog in our whole family, the German Shepherds are by far the best. The fact is ANY breed of dog is only going to be as good as the owner, you get out, what you put in.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

6'x6' is nice. If you have the room, 6'x10' = better. 

The kennel I posted is 14 x 23, but I have since cut that in half for two 14 x 11.5' kennels. 
For one puppy who is generally inside with the people, this is overkill. It really depends on how much space you have.


----------



## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I did that too with my puppy, had a kennel built 6x8, cement bottom with a horse mat on top, than I bought one of those small pools from Petsmart and filled it with shavings, the puppies learn to poop and pee in it, it doesn't attract flies, and it lasts a long time, I just removed the poop, I also bought flat back buckets for water, a nice off the floor lounge and put all kinds of chews etc... I work 13 hours a day 4 days a week and it was nice to know the puppies had everything they needed, when they needed it.


----------



## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

jprice103 said:


> They are just amazing dogs.. so loving...adore their owners, protect the family, have amazing personalities...will sleep when you need to get stuff done...be ready to go when you are ready to play...and just look at you like you are the most important thing in the world! I've had dogs all my life...mixes, terriers, dalmations, etc., but I've never truly had a dog that I felt the same about as my GSD! They just seem to be so attuned to you and the family...haven't had that with any other dog I've ever had! I only wish I could go back and have gotten one earlier in my life...but I will tell you, now that I've had one...I will ALWAYS have one (or more eventually)!


X2 on all of that !

As for the looking at you lovingly .....karma has this habit of coming up to me when I am in my office on the pc and just placing her head on my lap and staring at me . When she first started doing it I thought she needed to go out for a pee so I'd open the door . 
Nope ..........she just lUuuuuuUrvs me ;u)


----------



## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Are you kidding me??? Concerns around a small child?? Beause it's a GSD???? That upsets me VERY MUCH.......


Yeah I thought that comment was a bit gonzo too !! I bought karma home at 8 weeks and she nipped lightly and chewed on my 2 year old daughter (sounds worse than it was ) and now at one she occasionally bowls grace over when doing whizzies around the yard . We now have one month old son Angus in the house . I have no fears about my dog whatsoever but yes I DO monitor and I know when to watch out for eg I know grace needs to be out of the way in the morning when we let karma in as she does a sprint up the living room and back at mach 5 ! I also lock her in her mesh deluxe kennel when all the parents and kids come over as I cannot be responsible for all of the kids all of the time and one of them is going to get skittled at some stage .that's life ! At any rate ..properly introduced ,trained and managed ...my GSD and my little girl are now thick as thieves .


----------



## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

Keldor said:


> You guys teach me something new every day. . About how old should the GSD need to be to be ok with staying in the home alone during the day?


Do you have a fenced yard ?assuming the climate allows - leave the dog outside ! I have always left pups outside from 4months or so onwards . Contrary to popular belief, there are not gangs of dog poisoners randomly walking around flicking baits over fences and pups rarely get carried away by hungry pigeons .......


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

kidkhmer said:


> Do you have a fenced yard ?assuming the climate allows - leave the dog outside ! I have always left pups outside from 4months or so onwards . Contrary to popular belief, there are not gangs of dog poisoners randomly walking around flicking baits over fences and pups rarely get carried away by hungry pigeons .......


We all live in different areas, in some places there are few people who would harm a puppy in a back yard, or steal it. In other places it has happened over and over again. In some places in the US, you might even have people feeling sorry for the poor puppy in the back yard, and will steal it because they feel that is no life for a dog. It would be illegal, but they would feel the ends justify the means. 

But there are other reasons not to leave a pup in the back yard. And this is coming from someone who DOES leave dogs in the back yard. But I do not just shove them out there as a puppy. I built kennels that are concrete and covered over, and have privacy fencing. The yard is fenced around my kennels as well. And my dogs are not visible to the street. 

First you have to consider the climate. If it is hot and dry, you have to ensure there is enough water and shade to keep the puppy cool. If it is rainy, a yard will be the devil to keep from becoming a mud pit. One little puppy running back and forth or digging holes will mean one mud-puppy, from snout to tail, stinking, dripping, caked mud. 

Having a couple of kennels in the back yard works well, but only because there is more than one dog. One dog would get lonely and bored and would resort to barking, whining, howling, carrying on, or digging, chewing, and getting themselves in all kinds of trouble. 

A dog in a kennel with a fence around the kennel cannot graze all day on grass and magic mushrooms. One can do a quick scan of the kennel and quickly notice if there is anything to be concerned about, chewed toys, a branch, etc. The yard may have a bunch of hazzards that do not even seem like hazzards, a plant or bush, a low spot where water gathers, a weak spot in the fencing, siding on the house -- yes a bored dog WILL EAT you out of house and home, literally. Not only will he eat the siding, but you may have to fork over for a blockage surgery -- no fun at all.

Trust me on this, I had a dog and had to leave him in the yard for a few days while we were finishing the last couple of kennels. The flies would attack his ears and make them BLEED! In his kennel, which was up on concrete, flies left him be. I have NO idea why that was, but that it was is absolutely the truth.

Children. Children can be a HUGE pain. Some stupid thirteen year old twins actually shot someone on the board's dog with a paint ball gun. Normally kids do not go that far, but there is something about dogs. And getting the dog to bark is for some reason kool. They will get sticks and drag them across your fence. If the dog grabs the stick, Jackpot! All of this is TERRIBLE for dogs and puppies because the teasing will cause you issues you really do not want to deal with.

Fencing. Dogs with nothing to do all day will squeeze out of fences, climb over, break through, dig under fences. They can get their collars caught and kill themselves panicking or by hanging. They can get loose and smooshed by a car. It is MUCH easier to maintain a properly fenced and floored kennel so that the dog cannot climb over or dig under or break through. 

Critters. Critters can sometimes pose a threat by the parasites that they carry, and in case they are are injested by your dog. Mine have eaten a toad, and they have killed rats, and one killed a raccoon -- the raccoon was prior to my current set up, and I think it could have been rabid, otherwise I do not think it would have come within my GSDs range during the daytime. When dogs drink sitting water, or catch a rabbit and eat it, they can get things like giardia, leptospirosis, tape worm. 

Ticks and such can cause all kinds of diseases as well, diseases that can be tricky to diagnose, and that cause serious issues. 

I do not encourage people to put a single puppy out into a back yard. It is dangerous. And it will most likely make the dog less of a pet and more of an inconvenient nuisance. 

Sorry for the rant.


----------



## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

kidkhmer said:


> Do you have a fenced yard ?assuming the climate allows - leave the dog outside ! I have always left pups outside from 4months or so onwards . Contrary to popular belief, there are not gangs of dog poisoners randomly walking around flicking baits over fences and pups rarely get carried away by hungry pigeons .......


Speak for yourself. I don't think you can generalize the conditions from a country halfway across the world to what is going on here in the US. In my neighborhood alone, this year, two outside dogs have been fed something that required emergency surgery.

Excellent post, Selzer.


----------



## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

Virginia said:


> Speak for yourself. I don't think you can generalize the conditions from a country halfway across the world to what is going on here in the US. In my neighborhood alone, this year, two outside dogs have been fed something that required emergency surgery.
> 
> Excellent post, Selzer.


I am speaking for myself  . I may live in Cambodia now ( where dogs get stolen for eating meat every hour ) but I spent decades in Australia which is a developed country on a par with the US and I had my dogs outside in the yard in SYDNEY which is as urban as it gets.Admittedly the yards were all rear facing and I don't know that I would put my dog in the front unless there was a very high wall to remove temptations on both sides of the equation. Worse thing that would occur was a kid running a stick along the fence . I am sure some dogs get baited but % wise they would have more chance of getting hit by a car .

Dogs can just as easily eat harmful stuff inside a house. 

And yes - I did say climate was a factor and of course shelter,water etc must be provided. The whole inside / outside thing is personal choice and there is no right or wrong. Do whatever makes you and the dog happy.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

I'm currently looking at Kennels on Amazon and Craigslist. I live in Austin, Texas so it's hot and dry here most of the year so I will be getting a cover for it and will start growing vines over it to also help keep it cool. What do you guys think of igloos? There is a big one on Craiglist but I'm a little worried that it's so big that the dog will end up going to the bathroom in it. Are igloos looked at the same as a kennel to dogs? I do have a 6 foot fenced in yard and no neighbor behind me. Just a large field. I live in a suburb at the edge of town. It's quiet and there is a very low crime rate here. The kennel that I'm looking at is also 10 feet by 10 feet. Also, what is the benefit of using cedar chips?


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would probably not leave a puppy that young outside on its own. It would be safer inside until it has a few more months. Just my opinion.

A kennel inside a fenced yard is awesome. Another thought is a doggy door from garage to secure kennel. An x-pen inside the garage will limit the puppy from all the many things he might find to entertain himself.

Igloos are ok for COLD places. It was ten below zero when the neighbors husky mix had a litter of puppies in her igloo. The puppies were never taken in the house and all four survived the winter. I think in a hot dry climate, the igloo would be worthless as the dog would overheat in there and never use it to get out of the rain or sun. 

Do not use a tarp over top. Been there, done that. Use a sun screen. It is like a tarp, but it will allow any rain to go through. A tarp will hold the water, and the weight of the water can collapse a kennel. 
I use the sun screens on top of all my kennels.

Do not be surprised if you get complaints about the puppy in the back yard. If they are lonely, they will cry and bark. Usually, inside, they cry for a while and give it up. Outside, any movement, car going by, train whistle, critter, will start the puppy up again, and some of them will become chronic nuisance barkers.


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

When dogs are left outside on their own, 9 times out of 10 they are going to dig out of boredom and they will bark and bark till your neighbors complaint. I rather have my puppy/dog in a safe kennel in the garage while I'm gone than loose in the backyard. Too many things can go wrong.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

What is the benefit of using cedar chips?

Cedar chips smell good. They repel bugs. The pup will be drawn to them to do his business, keeps the rest of the kennel free of urine and fecies. Pup does not track back and forth through it, making himself smell like urine and poop.

They expand when water hits them, and they last a pretty long time. If you use them in a kennel without concrete, they will help keep the mud down and disintegrate into the earth. If you use them with concrete, the work nicely, but you do have to change them out. 

Used cedar chips are a concoction that the national defense should look into. I put them up around tree trunks and fence base (poop is already removed daily -- this is just urine/water soaked cedar chips. Anyhow it keeps the grass from growing in areas that are hard to get to with the mower, and they are eye pleasing. They do not stink. 

Well, when you are moving soiled cedar chips, the ammonia smell can be powerful, depending on when you last switched them out, but once you lay them down on the fence line, or tree trunks, they do not not smell bad. I would then hose the area and then put fresh chips down.

The wading pool is an excellent idea -- as wood does hold odors. The wading pool, can be dragged outside, emptied, hosed, put back in the kennel and refilled easily. 

Outside, wood chips are optional. Dogs can do their business on the concrete, no biggie, just clean it up. 

Inside the garage or laundry room, the wood chips will make it a lot better in my opinion. Also, it is helpful for potty training. The dog is not just pottying on the floor. When out of his kennel, he will go sniffing around for a spot, and look for his wood chips, and not just use the floor, like he would have to without the wood chip thing. 

I think I bought my little pool last year for $8.99 at PetsMart. I have a brick of wood chips in my room. I think I am going to set that up for Bear. (She has a habit of pooping right in front of the gate and then running back and forth through it. Adding a potty area to her kennel will keep her cleaner.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I live in Pearland Texas. I normally leave my GSD out in my back yard during the day. I have a large back yard, a large covered patio, two large trees, a 4' chain link fence with hot wire running over the top of it, two large igloo dog houses, one large chain link kennel, my yard has a dog run section in it and an elder Golden Retriever that hangs out with him. 

At night or when ever I am home, he is in the house with me...or at the barn...or in the pasture..or sitting on the front porch. He stays by my side. 

One thing to remember when you have an outside dog or a dog not kenneled, always expect the unexpected. I dog proofed my back yard - and they still managed during rough play to break the nozzel off of my water pipe. Flooded the entire back yard before I got home.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

This Saturday, I will be the owner of a sable half-american, half-german GSD. She will be 10 weeks old and spending this week with a trainer to start on her house manners. I've bought a 10x10 dog kennel that I will put next to my house where it is shady. I'm also partition the kennel with brings and fill it with Cedar chips. I'm also getting an industrial fan and putting a small kiddy pool in there. I will walk her before work and after work. As well as training, and playing. At night she will sleep in a crate indoors. Does this sound like a good plan?


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Also forgot to mention that when I went to see her. She was a little shy but when I got close to her, she would roll over and let me rub her belly. One thing I was wondering is how and when do I introduce her to my 1 year old chihuahua. I've been watching videos and they are saying not to let anyone pet my puppy but at the same time I need to socialize her. It's leaving me a little confused. When do I need to stop letting strangers pet my dog. When do I stop letting other dogs approach her? How much interaction should my kids have with the puppy? I'm sure they're going to want to pet her and play with her.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Anyone?


----------



## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Not to let anyone pet your puppy?? Why??? :thinking: What you need to do is let her approach people on HER terms, not force anyone onto her. Always bring lots of yummy treats with you and when people want to say hi to her, give them treats so they can offer them to her. She will soon associate people with a good thing...FOOD!!! She will start believing people are food/treat dispensers. 
You can introduce your Chihuahua and her now, just never unsupervised. And your kids can interact with her now as well. Just make sure your kids know how to treat a puppy.

SOCIALIZE, SOCIALIZE, SOCIALIZE!!! Very important, BUT keep it all positive, no negative experiences. When meeting other dogs, I pick up my puppies, they will let me know when they want to get down and meet the dog. And make sure the other dog is friendly and has all his/her shots!


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Thank you. I've been watching the Leerburg videos and it's hard to tell whether he's talking about a puppy or a dog on some parts. I want my puppy to look at me as her master so I'm assuming only I'm supposed to be the one that feeds and trains her? My kids will only pet and play with her? Thanks again. You've been a big help to me.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Keldor said:


> I'm assuming only I'm supposed to be the one that feeds and trains her? My kids will only pet and play with her? Thanks again. You've been a big help to me.


Who all lives in your house? Depending on how old you children are then they can also help train. You and your spouse (if you have one) should be feeding/training.

You want to socialize your puppy, so others will need to pet or play with her too.


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

Sounds good. It's me, my wife and my 2 boys (ages 6 and 8) that live in the house. My boys are great with our chihuhua. They are very gentle and love to give her affection although my 6 year old was a little nervous when we met the puppy this past weekend. So for now, since she's only 10 weeks I'll work on getting her to focus on me using marker training and supposedly she already knows how to sit and lay so I'll also work on that. Also going to work on come. Do we start on "Nothing in life is free" as soon as she gets home?


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Keldor said:


> Sounds good. It's me, my wife and my 2 boys (ages 6 and 8) that live in the house. My boys are great with our chihuhua. They are very gentle and love to give her affection although my 6 year old was a little nervous when we met the puppy this past weekend. So for now, since she's only 10 weeks I'll work on getting her to focus on me using marker training and supposedly she already knows how to sit and lay so I'll also work on that. Also going to work on come. Do we start on "Nothing in life is free" as soon as she gets home?


IMO the kids are too young to train the puppy so I suggest you and your wife both train and feed that way the puppy sees both of you as the boss, you both are equal.

NILIF is great and you can start that right away.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am going to say this one time more, because you asked, but it does not seem you really want to hear it, and then I will be done with this thread and you can take or leave the advice. 

A ten week old puppy is too young to be left in a kennel alone outside all day. Someone may steal it, and it will most likely put up a huge fuss whenever there is any distraction, squirrels, a neighbor in their back yard, etc. He will bark and cry out of lonliness, and if the kennel is not situated on something like concrete, the puppy will dig as well. 

I know that a kennel set up in your garage takes away from your garage space, but your puppy will be safer in there, and it the little dog is penned next to the kennel, he will not be nearly as lonely, and will not cry and bark as much.

I would not let anyone take and "train" a nine week old puppy for a week. 

Good luck with your dog. 

You can set up the kennel temporarily in the garage, and then move it outside when the pup is older if you want. Originally you said you could do that and the garage even was air conditioned. I do not understand why you are putting it outside now. Was it because 1 or 2 individuals on here thought that would be ok. You really have to be careful and weigh all advice. Having the puppy kenneled in the garage is not IDEAL, but it is REASONABLE, considering most of us do have to work for a living, and most jobs do not want us to bring our puppy to work with us. Will the dog SURVIVE being outside, on its own all day, kenneled alone in your back yard? Probably, but we are not on this site trying to provide the minimum that are dogs need for survival. We are trying to help you have a safe and comfortable puppy and work full time, with travel time included. 

Ok, I am done.


----------



## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

selzer said:


> I am going to say this one time more, because you asked, but it does not seem you really want to hear it, and then I will be done with this thread and you can take or leave the advice.
> 
> A ten week old puppy is too young to be left in a kennel alone outside all day. Someone may steal it, and it will most likely put up a huge fuss whenever there is any distraction, squirrels, a neighbor in their back yard, etc. He will bark and cry out of lonliness, and if the kennel is not situated on something like concrete, the puppy will dig as well.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I stopped at the post where you said you wanted to get a lab.

I had labs before I had GSDs. I LOVE labs, but IMO they are 10x harder than GSDs ever where. They are more active and more go go go. They get board easier and mine never really had an off switch. I also had a friend with labs whom he threw out in the back yard..the ATE his wooden porch. I kid you not, over 2000 worth of damage.

Lately, labs again IMO, that I have seen have been more aggressive, because of over breeding. Everyone wants a lab because they think they are these sweet gentle laid back creatures. Like with any dog, its about the breeding and training of course, but I would take 10 GSD puppies over a lab puppy when it came to ease of training and activity level. GSDs will wind down with you, Labs will keep GOING.


----------



## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

Keldor said:


> Thank you. I've been watching the Leerburg videos and it's hard to tell whether he's talking about a puppy or a dog on some parts. I want my puppy to look at me as her master so I'm assuming only I'm supposed to be the one that feeds and trains her? My kids will only pet and play with her? Thanks again. You've been a big help to me.


Leerburg's articles are more geared towards working dogs than just your average pet. He recommends not letting people pet your puppy or dog because working dogs should not view other people or animals as a huge source of fun and playtime. They should be neutral towards everything other than their handler and what they're focused on, you can't have a K9 going up to every Tom, **** and Harry, hoping for a treat. The way that some people socialize their dogs (throwing a huge party with treats, fun, clapping, high pitched voices) can potentially teach the dog that EVERY stranger on the road = fun, and this is not acceptable for working dogs. 

For your average pet, it matters less, in fact it's better to err on the side of caution and go oversocialized and super friendly than undersocialized and fearful or aggressive. I personally socialized my dog by taking him to all kinds of places (playgrounds, Inner Harbor, farms, the medical campus close by, parks, loading docks, etc.) when he was young so he could get used to "normal" things and all types of different looking, smelling and sounding people and not freak out every time he's confronted with something new. In the beginning, I used treats and the method that GSDBESTK9 outlined so that he would associate people with positive things, but as he got older, I phased out other people giving him treats, and asked for him to focus on me, and treated for his focus, when there were people trying to get his attention or making stupid noises at him or trying to pet him without permission.

You can start NILIF the day you bring the puppy home, it should really be more of a way of life than a strictly regimented training deal. When you're about to feed her, ask for a sit. When you're about to leash her out for a walk, ask for paw. Stuff like that. If you integrate it into your lifestyle, it won't feel like training at all, it will feel very natural. Nowadays when I get out the leash or start preparing my boy's dinner, he automatically sits and gives me focus without my asking for it, cause he knows that that is the fastest route to getting what HE wants.

I have to echo what Selzer said, her posts are very informative and she is experienced in this matter because she kennels her dogs outside sometimes and has a very nice set up for them. I would even go one step further than the garage and say that I personally prefer crating inside the house for a puppy, not just for safety, potential harm from people, boredom and noise issues, but also because a puppy that young should be learning to bond with the family and acclimating to life indoors. You want the puppy to get used to normal family life - kids running around, the sound of TV and the coffeemaker, the smells of dinner being made - while she is young. This is considered socialization also, not all socialization has to occur outside of the home. But if inside is not feasible, an air conditioned garage is far better than outside in the yard alone, regardless of what amenities are set up. In my experience, people who start off by keeping a large breed puppy outside usually end up making those dogs permanent outside dogs because they've already gotten everything set up, and it's too much hassle and mess to bring the dog inside and have it adjust to life indoors.

JMO, and I know other people on this forum do and think otherwise successfully, but you should take EVERYONE'S advice with a grain of salt and give it some serious consideration before making a decision.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Virginia said:


> I would even go one step further than the garage and say that I personally prefer crating inside the house for a puppy, not just for safety, potential harm from people, boredom and noise issues, but also because a puppy that young should be learning to bond with the family and acclimating to life indoors. You want the puppy to get used to normal family life - kids running around, the sound of TV and the coffeemaker, the smells of dinner being made - while she is young. This is considered socialization also, not all socialization has to occur outside of the home. But if inside is not feasible, an air conditioned garage is far better than outside in the yard alone, regardless of what amenities are set up. In my experience, people who start off by keeping a large breed puppy outside usually end up making those dogs permanent outside dogs because they've already gotten everything set up, and it's too much hassle and mess to bring the dog inside and have it adjust to life indoors.


These are wonderful points, and can't be stressed enough. To start with a shy puppy, and plan on putting the shy puppy in an outside kennel during regular, day time working hours, is just setting everyone up for what could be a difficult time.
Sheilah


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Keldor said:


> I'm also getting an industrial fan and putting a small kiddy pool in there.


I got ten bucks on the kiddy pool lasting 2 weeks. Anyone else?


----------



## Keldor (May 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> I am going to say this one time more, because you asked, but it does not seem you really want to hear it, and then I will be done with this thread and you can take or leave the advice.
> 
> A ten week old puppy is too young to be left in a kennel alone outside all day. Someone may steal it, and it will most likely put up a huge fuss whenever there is any distraction, squirrels, a neighbor in their back yard, etc. He will bark and cry out of lonliness, and if the kennel is not situated on something like concrete, the puppy will dig as well.
> 
> ...


Geez. Sorry, if it seemed I wasn't listening to you. In fact, I have been listening to everyone. There is just a lot of information and you're right. I need to weigh it all out. We just bought this house and I have a window air conditioner from my old house. I just realized this past weekend that my new house has no windows in the garage to put it in. You may not read this since "you're done with the thread", but thanks for the advice and help. And that goes to everyone here. I will in fact, put the kennel in the garage and figure out some way to cool it. I'm sure that it's obvious to everyone that I'm new at this. I really do want this to work out and for my GSD to live a good and happy life.

Edit: I have a job that will let me take the puppy with me to work for just over the summer since I work all year round at a high school so at least in the beginning, she will be with me all day.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Keldor said:


> Keldor said:
> 
> 
> > I want my puppy to look at me as her master so I'm assuming only I'm supposed to be the one that feeds and trains her? My kids will only pet and play with her? Thanks again. You've been a big help to me.
> ...


----------



## 2CrazyDogs (Jan 19, 2011)

I have 3 kids (3, 5, & 7) and family that comes over all the time and our little Demon boy does great with all of them. He is a mix though. Also, I grew up with a GSD, we got her when she was 5+ years old from a friend and we never had a problem with her being aggressive with strangers. Worst thing she ever did was bark at people until we told her to stop.


----------

