# Something is Very Wrong with Starine



## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

I can't believe I'm writing this since today is Starine's Gotcha Day and unofficial birthday making her 8 yo. It's her back legs, appears neurological....

The first sign that something was wrong came on Wednesday when she had problems jumping into the car. She had to pull her back legs up rather than jump in. I was concerned at first but then thought she either took a bad step or didn't have enough room to jump in the garage. Then on Thanksgiving she didn't want to play ball with the Chuck-it, something she normally goes crazy for.

By yesterday she was showing definate signs of weakness in her back legs. Not falling down, but having trouble navigating the tile and reluctant to use the stairs. Normally she follows me everywhere but has been staying downstairs instead. She is also lethargic and wants to be alone. No fever, is eating and pooping fine.

I have an appointment at my vet Weds. morning, but she is doing worse tonight. Her back legs seem weaker and she is crossing them as she walks. Her right leg appears to be the weaker of the two and she is not putting much weight on it. I am not finding any particular spot on her back or spine that is painful but she does appear to be in pain or at least discomfort. 

DH and I are just sick about what this could be. I'm having thoughts of DM, Cauda Equina, etc. Lyme disease has crossed my mind and that would be a relief right now.

I'm not going to wait for my appointment on Weds. and don't even want to take the time at my local vet. My plan is to call the University of Wisconsin in the morning and see when I can get her into neurology. That way if she needs an MRI, they will be able to do it and I won't have wasted extra days going to my vet first.

This is like a bad dream right now. This is Starine, my heartdog, nothing can happen to her.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Thinking the best and sending healthy vibes. Take care, you and Starine.


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

Oh, no, I am so sorry!! I know how scary that is, I wish there is something I could say. Man, I hope you find something out, and it is not serious. I will keep you in my thoughts.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh no Sandy!!!!!! Hoping it is nothing serious with our rescue queen agility diva, pretty Starine ......


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

sounds to me like she through her back out... Hope it's just temporary and something a chiropractor might "fix"


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Sandy,
Hoping it's nothing as serious as you're probably thinking. I know with DM, it's a gradual weakness in the legs - it doesn't happen as fast as this. When Max hurt his back, he had the same symptoms. I know he had to be in pain, but he didn't show it. He was put on high doses of steriods for 3 days. After 24 hours, there was a huge difference and after the 3 days, he was actually pretty darned good. After that, he did drag his one foot, but he was always able to pull it back up. He was around 10 1/2 when it happened. He wore a boot and we still walked every day. He was nearly 12 before we lost him. There's lots they can do these days and I think your plan to go to U of W is a great idea. No sense in wasting any time and vet teaching hospitals are the best resource there is. 

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers!


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## rainydaygoods (Oct 13, 2008)

Thinking the very best of thoughts for Starine!! {{hugs}}


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Also hoping it's "just" a back injury. 

I think that is a great plan-they can do so much in diagnostics. 

You can also take her in, I am betting, through the emergency service if they are like Cornell. 

Hoping for a Good Gotcha WEEK-instead of celebrating today.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I am so sorry, sending positive thoughts to Starine and you.
It could be a disk problem - you might want to read the thread of Jaxx.


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## Kuklasmom (May 13, 2005)

Good thoughts and prayers are on the way for you and Starine.


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

Sandy, I am so sad to read this about Star







I think you are making the right decision to call the University of WI to get her seen right away. This sounds like something you don't want to mess around with. I'm really hoping you find out she only tweaked her back somehow and will make a full, quick recovery!!! I can't imagine what you must be feeling right now. First you deal with Rio's bloat and now this with Star.....hugs to you and Fred







If there is anything you guys need, you know I'm here if you need anything!! Keep us posted when you can.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Tossing out ideas here ---

Pinched nerve (or disc injury) in lumbar or thoracic spine. 

Simultaneous Injury to the both knees (ACLs) or other joints - When Zamboni blew both her ACLs at the same time (within seconds of each other), it looked like she severed her spinal cord. She couldn't stand; appeared to be incontinent. Even my regular vet thought it might be that. The orthopedic specialist was the one that made the correct diagnosis. 

Vertigo. 

These are what come to me just sitting here. Any of these can be treated/repaired. Vertigo, it depends on the cause (possibly just a concussion from playing or a tumble). Bacteria or a virus could cause vertigo and would have sudden onset. 

Acute onset does seem more like trauma-related (or viral) than disease like DM. 

Taking her to the University is a great idea. No sense messing around. I believe in getting the best specialists and technology immediately.

Keep us posted. Lots of prayers coming your way.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Sandy,

So sorry that Starine isn't doing well. I agree that this does not sound like DM and does sound like something wrong with the back/spine. If you have a board certified veterinary chiropractor in your area and they have diagnostic capabilities I would give them a call right away. Here are the listings for IL:

Linda Harmon-Dodge DVM Lovington IL 217-259-9182 
Daniel King DVM Tolono IL 217-485-7387 [email protected]
Gay Adams DC Monticello IL 217-762-8576 [email protected]
Elizabeth McConnell DC Alpha IL 309-314-6444 
Shanie Cahill DC Geneseo IL 309-944-1489 
William Schmidt DC Illinois IL 501-321-9081 [email protected]
Susan Hites DVM Mahomet IL 575-639-0678 [email protected]
Dena Jersild DVM Winfield IL 630-208-7760 [email protected]
Carl DeStefano DC Geneva IL 630-208-7760 [email protected]
Susan Cechner DVM Elburn IL 630-365-9599 
Michelle Herlihy DVM Chicago Suburbs IL 630-399-5725 
Gary Wilson DVM Willowbrook IL 630-688-3739 
Robert Ness DVM Lisle IL 630-737-1281 [email protected]
Julie Levering DC Montogomery IL 630-801-3389 [email protected]
Cindy Howard DC Frankfort IL 708-479-0020 [email protected]
Joe Whalen DVM Chicago Ridge IL 708-576-2801 http://www.chicagoanimalrehab.com
Julie Mayer DVM Chicago IL 773-269-2964 http://www.integrativepetcare.com
Ann Generali DC Chicago IL 773-878-8933 
Julie Smith DC Freeport IL 815-238-3412 [email protected]
Linnea Person DC Mendota IL 815-539-3011 http://www.drlinnea.com
Vicki Harrison DC Belvidere IL 815-544-2732 [email protected]
Michael Buskohl DC Poplar Grove IL 815-703-4959 
John Hanover DVM Wadsworth IL 847-360-1630 http://www.wholevet.net
Rachel Heart DVM Barrington IL 847-526-9550 
Laurie McCauley DVM Grayslake IL 847-548-9470 http://www.tops-vet-rehab.com
Christine Jurek DVM Third Lake IL 847-548-9470 [email protected]
Sig Hansen DC Carpentersville IL 847-551-1279 
Sherry Bresnahan DC Lake In The Hills IL 847-658-5828 [email protected]
Susan Fife DVM Ingleside IL 847-757-6654 [email protected]
Ross Hugi DVM Mundelein IL 847-949-0055


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

I am not much use by way of suggestions and advice, but I am offering support during this difficult time.

Do send us an update when you have some answers. I would like to learn and know what is bothering Starin.

Chin up, we are all sending positive thoughts your way.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Thanks everyone for all the responses and good wishes. All the possibilities raised make me realize that there's a good chance it's something treatable. I always tend to think of the worst and cancer always is in the back of my mind, especially after the blow of losing Shelby so suddenly 2 years ago, when going to the vet it seemed like there was only something minor going on.

Everything brought up sounds possible and now I'm thinking about a torn ACL like 3K9Mom suggested. It seemed like both legs at first, but tonight she is definately favoring one leg.

UW is 90 minutes away, so a good resource for us. We have a pretty thick file there by now. She had a very good appetite tonight so that's an encouraging sign.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

If it is an a torn ACL then please check into the success rate of the surgeon you get at UW. Massie had an ACL repaired there and never fully recovered from the surgery. I knew another women whose lab had to have the surgery 3 times before it was successful. 

Sorry, don't mean to be Debbie Downer but I had better luck with the orthopedic specialists in Madison than at UW.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sending healing vibes for Starine.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

_Sending lots of good vibes eastward_


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Chimo had an ACL "strain" last winter when he tweeked his leg on the ice. He also has spondylosis (still very mild even though he was diagnosed 3.5 years ago). We are all wishing it is a mild booboo that will be fixable.


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## Karin (Jan 4, 2008)

So sorry to hear about Starine. I don't have any advice, but wanted to offer my sympathy and hopes that this is something very treatable.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Nobody ever thinks about this, and neither did I with my last dog-- but, pneumonia. The "limb weakness" was actually overall weakness I just didn't see. He was eating, drinking, seemed just fine-- but a chest x-ray gave us the surprise news! 

I am praying that whatever is happening with sweetheart Starine, that it is easily treatable. May good things happen and it be a positive, easily-fixable outcome! Praying for, and fingers and paws crossed for, sweetie Starine!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Sorry you and Star are going through this. Good vibes for a treatable solution and quick recovery!







</span>


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Patti. Good idea. Something else to add to the list -- (adding to my mental list for when things go wrong and appear to be orthopedic or neurological. Chest xrays.)

I really should write this list down somewhere...


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm getting her in to UW today as an emergency case. Will be leaving shortly. She's panting a lot today. She slipped on the tile earlier and then stood there with her legs caving, back roached up and tail tightly between her legs. She also has diarrhea, but that could be from giving her some canned food yesterday. (I know, how stupid)

I'll update when I get home.


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

Sandy, we are thinking of you guys! Big hugs to Starine!!


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

Positive thoughts and prayers for you and your girl.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)




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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I am so sorry to hear of Star's problems....hopefully it is something minor neurologically that can be treated with steriods or therepy...hope she feels better soon!







FWIW - I think going to a vet school hospital with their facilities is the best course you can take! Good luck!!!

Lee


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## Suki's Mom (Nov 24, 2008)

Hugs to both of you!!


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Sorry to hear you are going through this Sandy







Think you are doing the right thing getting her up to the vet at the University. Keep us posted. (((hugs)))...


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## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

Sending positive thoughts from Maryland.. Hugs!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Hugs and prayers for Starine, sending good vibes her way!!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I hope you get some answers and a course of treatment so that she is on the mend soon!


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)

Sandy, I am so sorry to hear you have go go through this








And with your heart dog.. Hugs to you and keep us posted!!


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

Sending my best wishes your way!!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Checking in for an update.. sending prayers Starine's way..............


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Sending positive thoughts.


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## jesmagmisty (Jul 13, 2001)

Sending good thoughts and prayers and waiting for an update. Hopefully good news.
Robbie


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I saw you're taking her in today. Crossing fingers and paws for good news!


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

I immediately thought back issue too....until you got the crossing legs part. I have no idea and can only offer support and hugs. Definitely try for acupuncture and chiro!!!!


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## sunnygirl272 (Dec 10, 2003)

Still hoping for "just" a back strain. Would explain the roachy, tail tucked posture when she slipped. If anyone has ever pulled a back muscle, think about how you stood...


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

The worst thing about being a member of this board? Waiting for updates on dogs we care about. If I could have my way, I'd sneak off to every emergency visit with them....









Hoping it's all good news (a minor easily treatable issue), and they just stopped for several Arbys sandwiches on their way home.


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

OH SANDY!! I remember meeting Starine 3 years ago, what a sweetie! I sure hope that whatever is causing this is nothing serious!

Sending good wishes up your guys way.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I keep coming back to this thread too. Hoping for the best...


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

No answers yet. We saw a professor who is an Internal Medicine specialist and he gave her the most thorough exam I have ever seen. Head to toe, including a neuro exam. He couldn't find anything that was causing her pain or abnormal other than the weak legs. I was hoping it was a back or disc problem, but with all that pressing on the back, spine and tail, she didn't show any pain response. Same thing with her neck and head. He thought her refexes were good with everything he did with the little rubber hammer. She was struggling walking on the tile in the reception area, really didn't want to walk on it, and when they checked her gait by walking her up and down the hallway, I could see her wobbling again. She was also walking on her hocks when she turned. At first the vet didn't think much of it because he's seen a lot of GSDs that walk on their hocks, but I told him that she normally doesn't walk on her hocks. 

The vet wanted to get her into a consult with the neurologist but it wasn't possible because neurology was swamped and they had a surgery for the rest of today. The vet was so nice that he said she could spend the night there and he would try to get her into the neurologist tomorrow but I didn't want to leave her that long. I did get very lucky because neurology had a cancellation for Thursday while I was there, so we're going back then. Otherwise, it can take a month to get an appointment with neurology. 

Although I didn't ask him specifically about DM, it certainly hasn't been ruled out by what I saw today. What really concerns me is seeing how she was walking there - she looked like a GSD with DM that I see occasionally. Once you see it, you don't tend to forget it. 

They did bloodwork and all that stuff and he will call me with the results tomorrow. They do have a lab there and usually get it done while you're there, but it was getting late.

I am so glad I went because she never would have gotten that type of exam locally. And although we don't know anything yet, I feel like we got a jump start on a diagnosis by being able to get her into neuro so soon.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Darn Sandy. I had hoped for some thing really simple like strained/pulled muscle. 

Sending healing vibes out to Starine.

Val


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

DM does not show up this suddenly, usually it is a slow gradual onset.
Tick-borne diseases?
Two of my fosters had symptoms like this on Flagyl.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

I told him my concerns about all the deer around the house and they're checking for tick diseases too. She's not on any medication right now and hasn't been recently. I keep thinking that maybe I missed other signs of DM up until now. I just want to prepare myself ahead of time if it is so that I can think clearly and come up with a course of action if that is the diagnosis. He described it as minor neurological symptoms with the way she's walking. Although to me it's not minor because I know how different it is from her normal gait. She's holding her back legs close together when she stands too, which is not normal for her.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Well poop Sandy, I had so hoped for an easy Dx today.
I'll keep the good thoughts zooming eastward!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Darn. I like quick easy answers. But crossing bad stuff off the list is useful too, and I'm sure that the internist crossed a lot of bad stuff off the list today. 

My good thoughts are zooming east with Barb's ...


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

She is your agility dog, I don't think you would have missed the signs.
DM is not the end of the world. It progresses slowly in older dogs and it is not painful.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Sandy,
Has she had Heartguard lately? More than likely not the issue, but Sammy had a horrible neurological reaction to Ivermectin. It wasn't from a monthly Heartguard pill, but an injection he received. It occurs in dogs who have the MDR1 mutant gene. Even with the gene, the University of Washington says they can still have the Heartguard because of the micrograms of ivermectin in it. But I'll never use it - we'll use an alternative without Ivermectin. A real reach, but I would have felt bad if I hadn't mentioned it...


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Kris, she's on Interceptor and she had her last dose 4 weeks ago, so she's due for it but I'm not going to give it until we resolve this. She's also due for her 3 year rabies in a few days and, thankfully, my vet was late in sending out the reminder. I hate to think what could have happened if she was vaccinated and wasn't healthy.

RebelGSD, she's been retired from agility for a few years. And I retired her from competition rally last December, so I guess I wouldn't have noticed if something were wrong from that aspect. One thing that has crossed my mind is that she hasn't been sleeping in bed with us for a while. She's been choosing to stay on a bed on the floor. I can't remember exactly how long that's been going on.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Sandy,

Did he mention doing an MRI?. My 1st GSD had similar symptoms that came on suddenly and it turned out to be a compression on her spinal cord.

I do think she was experiencing some pain though..


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## Sean Rescue Mom (Jan 24, 2004)

Sandy, as you already know the U of WI is a wonderful veterinary hospital. Starine will get the best of treatment and I have my fingers crossed that the diagnosis is something treatable. Hugs to both of you, please keep us posted.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Just arrived to this thread. I'm so sorry to hear about Star, Sandy. I took hope it turns out to be something easy to fix. Poor pupper.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

My guy has a problem with his back, he yelps when lifted. I was never able to reproduce the pain response in other situations. The x-rays did not show anything conclusive.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: chrubySandy,
> 
> Did he mention doing an MRI?. My 1st GSD had similar symptoms that came on suddenly and it turned out to be a compression on her spinal cord.


Hi Chris,

I expect that will come on Thursday with the neurologist. They did an MRI on my GSD/Husky mix many years ago and were going to do one on Shelby but it turned out she didn't need it. I didn't get there until 1:00 today and Star wasn't done until 4:00, so there wasn't too much time to get into more detail


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

Good luck Sandy,

My thoughts and prayers are with Starine, you and the pack/family


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

wow, Sandy... I'm so sorry to read this. I do hope you get some resolution and that it's something easily treated.

Thoughts and prayers with you guys.


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## dogs_dolls (Apr 27, 2001)

I am glad to hear they are checking for tick born diseases. We had a male with many of the symptoms you described that had erlichosis...specifically Rocky Mtn Spotted Tick Fever. Aggressive treatment will be needed if this is what she has. Good luck to you guys and I am hoping it will be something VERY treatable!!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

dogs_dolls, I'm very interested in knowing what area your male contracted Erlichiosis in. About 6 years ago a friend lost her Siberian to Erlichiosis and they lived in the Chicago suburbs (Hanover Park). 

Since then I've been careful about tick prevention until my recent lapse of a few months, which I'm now kicking myself over. We have deer that graze regularly about 200-300 feet from our fence while the dogs are outside. It's like everyone has gotten used to each other and I've become complacent about it. We also have an active coyote pack and one huge one has been hanging around the same area in the morning lately and doesn't appear to be concerned about the dogs.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Dogs with lyme disease "look" very much like dogs with DM. If it were DM would there be some nail wear from dragging, that maybe you didn't notice? Just throwing these into the mix.</span>


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

Sandy, I hope you get some answers tomorrow at your next appointment. How is Star doing today?


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Jazzstorm, she's not knuckling or dragging her feet and no nail wear that I can detect. The vet asked about that too.

Something else that's come to mind is that a dog in my agility group had lepto recently. The dog was at a big trial in Sept. and used the potty area so hundreds of dogs were potentially exposed to it, including Kayto, although Star wasn't there. The owner got the lepto results while she was at the trial and took the dog home. The dog was at another trial two weeks later. The vet asked a lot about whether Star was drinking or peeing excessively.

Nicky, she's the same today. Seems lethargic and not interested in anything.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Sandy-I've been thinking about lepto, blasto (even though I have no idea if it even applies), and just infection in general. I've been thinking of you guys, we do not like these mysteries and know how upsetting it must be for you.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

We are still thinking of you and Starine, Sandy!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Thanks guys.









Jean, Both the vet and the med student listened to her chest a lot and apparently didn't have any concerns. I think they would have considered blasto if her chest didn't sound good. That's what happened with Shelby, after listening to ther chest, the vet did x-rays thinking it could be cancer or blasto. And we know how that turned out.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Thinking of you and Starine. I hope traveling Thursday will be good, today it isn't so great.

Val


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

Oh my...haven't been on much lately and come to two of my fav members have 3 pages worth of health issues I have to hold my breath reading through. Hugs to you Sandy and Starine!!! Sounds like you are in good hands just got to get through the dx part!








Starine 

Thoughts are with you and your family!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Sandy,







may this appointment coming up totally turn things around in Starine's favor with good diagnosis and a favorable treatment plan to get Starine back to being her happy, active self. She is such a doll, I know how anxious you must be. Prayers sent that a doagnosis Thursday move to an easy treatment plan-- and relief for your anxious heart. May Starine be feeling well again very soon. Prayers are being sent for Starine tonight.... and tomorrow for her successful







neuro appointment that will ease your worries and give you a good, clear treatment plan for your lovey girl.


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## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

Thinking of Starine today and hopeing she's doing better.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: agilegsdsJazzstorm, she's not knuckling or dragging her feet and no nail wear that I can detect. The vet asked about that too.
> 
> Something else that's come to mind is that a dog in my agility group had lepto recently. The dog was at a big trial in Sept. and used the potty area so hundreds of dogs were potentially exposed to it, including Kayto, although Star wasn't there. The owner got the lepto results while she was at the trial and took the dog home. The dog was at another trial two weeks later. The vet asked a lot about whether Star was drinking or peeing excessively.
> 
> Nicky, she's the same today. Seems lethargic and not interested in anything.


The thing with lyme, is that it can look like _anything_ almost. From knuckle dragging, to subtle digestive problems only, to a saggine eyelid, to a limp, to just general malaise, etc. 

Low level lyme titers can be mistaken for lepto actually -- they are both spirochetes.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomThe worst thing about being a member of this board? Waiting for updates on dogs we care about. ....


You can say that again!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: agilegsdsI told him my concerns about all the deer around the house and they're checking for tick diseases too. She's not on any medication right now and hasn't been recently. I keep thinking that maybe I missed other signs of DM up until now. I just want to prepare myself ahead of time if it is so that I can think clearly and come up with a course of action if that is the diagnosis. He described it as minor neurological symptoms with the way she's walking. Although to me it's not minor because I know how different it is from her normal gait. She's holding her back legs close together when she stands too, which is not normal for her.


Even if all the tick tests come back negative, ask the vet about a trial run of doxycycline, in case of false negatives, which are common with tick tests. On the tick list, the aggressive dose is 5 mg/lb twice a day, just so you have a comparison.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm back. Star is at UW.

She wasn't having a good morning before we left. Astro bumped into her on the tile causing her to slip. And then she had a struggle coming up the stairs and when she got to the top she did that crouched roached-back thing again and looked like she was in distress.

The neurologist did another thorough exam. All her bloodwork from the other day came back fine. The problems are with her rear legs, front legs are fine. Both rear legs did terribly on that test where they turn under the foot to see how long it takes to right itself. The response time on the right was "delayed" and on the left it was "nonexistant". They had a hard time getting a pain response, although they think they got one when her tail was manipulated. She closed her mouth and stopped panting each time. The vet felt that she may either be very stoic or too sweet to respond even if she were in pain. Star is not very vocal and has always had a high pain tolerance IMO, so that may be very possible. The vet consulted with the vet that saw her on Tuesday as well as with the senior neurologist. They all believe that the problem is coming from either her mid-spine or very low close to the tail. They gave the letters/numbers of the vertebrae but I can't remember them.

There are several things that could be causing it. It is unlikely that it is DM. The examining vet put DM near the bottom of the list of causes and the senior neurologist felt it wasn't even on the list. So it could be a disc, cancer, or FCE. FCE was described as a minor stroke on the spine which doesn't cause pain and eventually goes away without treatment. A disc problem or tumor would cause pain. A disc problem may or may not require surgery. If it is a cancerous tumor, it may or may not be operable. If it's not operable then it is untreatable. Whatever it is, it hasn't progressed far because her neurological symptoms are not that bad, as far as these things go.

So they gave me two options. We could wait a month to see if she gets better or worse. If she were to get better than it most likely is FCE. The other option was to do a full work-up to get a diagnosis. The work-up consists of chest x-rays and an ultrasound to make sure that she doesn't have cancer elsewhere. Then one, possibly two MRIs. They may need to do two since the suspected areas are in different parts of the spine. And after that a spinal tap (although different from a myelogram). After researching for the past few days, I was prepared for the number of tests necessary to get a diagnosis. What I wasn't prepared for was the cost.









They are very careful at UW not to push you one way or the other in decisions, they just lay out the facts. While the vet said that there was some leeway in time based on her condition to wait a month, I couldn't take that chance. Because if it is cancer and it is operable, well it goes without saying that I want to treat it now. And even if it is DM or something that is untreatable or would eventually go away on its own, I need to know! As I told the vet and the fourth-year student, Star is my once in a lifetime dog. The male student even got teary-eyed at that point. I called DH, we talked it over and I told them to go ahead with the work-up. This comes at the worst possible time for us financially but I can't bear to see her like she was this morning if I can do something to make her feel better.

They're doing the chest x-ray and ultrasound this afternoon and will call with the results. Then if all is well, they will do the MRIs and spinal tap tomorrow and I will either need to pick her up or make a decision about a biopsy or surgery. If she needs surgery she will stay the weekend for it.

It was a very long 2 hour drive home alone. I had forgotten how long the drive really is. Now the waiting begins.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh gosh....... I am so sorry this was not an easy dx. Hoping today's tests reveal something.

Been watching this but had not posted in a few days. Keeping you guys in our thoughs.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Thanks for the update. So much to absorb...

I hope it is something treatable.








</span>


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Rob, the student taking care of her, just called and so far, so good. The chest x-rays were clear - yeah! And they found nothing to be concerned about with the ultrasound. He said that her spleen looked a bit odd, but it's pretty common for GSD spleens to have an unusual look in MRIs. So, she's the first dog scheduled for the MRI tomorrow. He expects the doc to be calling me about 10:30 with the MRI results. They may not go on to the spinal tap if something shows up in the MRI that may cause the spinal tap to be dangerous. She'll be anesthesized for the MRI and they'll keep her under until the spinal tap, if they do it.

Rob did tell me that right now they have a good idea of what to expect tomorrow for the outcome. He said they're leaning away from the "bad diseases" and think it will be either a disc problem or a spinal infection. (I had forgotten in my earlier post that they mentioned infection too) I sure hope he's right.

Thank you all for your encouraging posts, thoughts and prayers. I am overwhelmed at the number of responses.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Ok, Sandy. We're still crossing a lot of bad stuff off the list. 

Expensive diagnostics. Sigh. But I'm crossing stuff off my list over here. We're making progress. I know this is hard. I hate leaving my pups in someone else's hands, but Star is in good hands.









We're saying a lot of prayers out here in the West.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sandy thinks for the Update. 

I am glad they thin it is the big bad "C". 

Sending healing vibes to Starine.

Val


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## hudak004 (Aug 3, 2006)

Thinking of both of you, and hoping for good news tomorrow!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ditto!


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

I know what you mean about once in a lifetime dog... ERNIE was that to me

I am hoping that it will be something that is easily fixed and all will be well soon

Its so hard when they get sick.... hoping for great news tomorrow


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## Sean Rescue Mom (Jan 24, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomWe're saying a lot of prayers out here in the West.


And closer to home too.








Thinking only positive thoughts and that whatever the diagnosis is, it is treatable or as you stated, will go away on it's own. 
Sandy, I can only imagine how lonely that 2 hr. drive from Madison was for you.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I had a weird thought of wondering how her pancreas was too. With the hunching. Though if it's her spine...that would explain it. 

Sounds like good news so far!!!! Cautiously optimistic and ready to roll out the happyboogie guy as soon as we are allowed to!


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

thoughts and prayers are still with you. Thank you for keeping us posted.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Sandy,

Just catching up here! Glad so many scary things have already been crossed off of the list. I hope you get a diagnosis and a positive course of treatment tomorrow!


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

Sandy, all fingers and toes are crossed over here that they can eliminate all the bad issues off the list after the MRI today and that only a positive diagnosis and treatment comes out of all this. I'm thinking of you guys! Positive thoughts headed your way


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Crossing fingers and paws for you and Starine







Keep us posted.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I keep checking in, hoping for an update. I know that it isn't time for the vet to ring you yet Sandy..... just wondering if a tech called with a general update. (Nosy, aren't I?) Grimmi's paws are crossed for sweetie Starine. Prayers continuing for a really clear diagnosis for something easily treatable! The scariest symptoms don't always mean something tough to conquer. I'll keep checking back.. and sending prayers Starine's way!


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I keep checking on my friends here too. Waiting for news.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

The vet called and based on some new info, there's been a change in plans. It's good news.....

They did another neuro exam this morning and saw improvement, one side was much better. They also did an orthopedic consult and found a cruciate ligament injury on her left leg, although not a complete tear. (3k9mom, you got that right!) That would account for her lack of jumping and running. And yesterday when she had that problem with the stairs she was holding that leg up which I told them about. That doesn't account for the neuro indications, they still feel there is a mild problem there. But now they think it is most likely FCE, second would be a disc and third would be a tumor. The improvement they're seeing is consistent with FCE - Fibrocartilaginous Embolization. FCE doesn't require treatment, it will improve on its own.

So after a long talk with the doc, we are not doing the MRI today. They feel that the risk of anesthesia does not outweigh the benefit of making a conclusive diagnosis at this point. They don't think a tumor is likely and if it were, in reality, it would not be treatable. And if it were a disc, they wouldn't recommend surgery at this time anyhow since she's doing so well and there's the risk of complications with that type of surgery.

So she will come home today and we will monitor her neuro symptoms. If they do continue or worsen, I can bring her in at any time and they can pick up where they left off and do the MRI and spinal tap. The vets feel this is the best course to take and I'm comfortable with it now.

But there's more. She has Giardia too. She had explosive diarrhea when I brought her in on Tuesday. With all this going on, no wonder she was feeling so lousy! I am wondering if I brought the Giardia home from work at the dog daycare. About three weeks ago there was something going around with dogs with nasty diarrhea and I cleaned A LOT of it up. I never found out what it was but one owner came in complaining that her vet said her dog picked it up there. And there was a foster dog with coccidia recently that they put in with the daycare dogs. My boss puts dogs straight from shelters in with the daycare dogs and I have been uncomfortable about it for a while. So now I have to figure out what to do with the rest of my dogs that have been exposed to Giardia.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Sandy,

I guess you're on central time, so you haven't gotten the MRI results yet. Step by step you're eliminating some of the greatest fears. When you wrote about your drive home without Starine, you made your ache real.

More hopes for a good outcome for your girl.

Mary Jane


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Sandy,
I think this is very good news! I'm so happy she's improving and I know she'll continue to do so under your care. Yay Starine! Hope she feels much better soon!


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Does sound like good news and a very reasonable plan as well.









If only they could talk and tell us what hurts!!









Keep us posted!


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

All in all that is awesome news, Sandy! I am glad she will be home with you soon. 

During her recovery time do you have some extra bath rugs that you can scatter around on the floor for traction for her? I found some LONG ones at Ollies for $8 and they are awesome when it is raining or snowing on my tile floors so that dogs do not slip and fall. KC and Rayne still feel that if they are not at 100% speed that are slacking and Tika isn't a whole lot slower. I am always worried that Chimo will tweek his weak knee (strained/sprained ligamants late last winter) again on the ice outside so my living room will be covered in bath mats for the winter.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Sandy,

How about something like this:

http://www.altrec.com/ruff-wear/barkn-bo...ilPageAlsoWantA

Boots with extra traction soles. They would help keep her on her feet.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Great at least some of the mystery is solved!

Thinking out loud here: I wonder if the ACL injury has put undo strain on her back,by compensating for the injury? Maybe causing a pinched nerve... </span>


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Thanks everyone, it's been such a roller coaster week that my brain is fuzzy now.

Ruq, we don't have Ollie's here. But we do have big rubber/carpet mats from Menard's that we use under the crates that we can put across the floor. They're very cheap too, I think around $8 as well. Have to see how may spare ones we have and maybe pick up a few more.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Those are great boots that Lauri linked to. Max only wore one - on the foot that he would drag. They stay on well and are very durable. They're about $60 for 4 of them, but with him only wearing one, they lasted forever. They are wonderful for traction and very lightweight.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

You could also get some cheap rubber backed carpet at Menards or Home Depot. I used to get that for my whelping room. It's really ugly but cheap and non-slip.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Jazzstorm <span style="color: #3333FF">Thinking out loud here: I wonder if the ACL injury has put undo strain on her back,by compensating for the injury? Maybe causing a pinched nerve... </span>


Yes, I'm wondering if they're related too. I have an idea when the ACL could have happened. The day before Thanksgiving is when she stumbled jumping into the car. It was parked close to the garage wall and she didn't have much room to jump. That was when I first noticed a problem. Maybe that wasn't a symptom but instead was the ACL injury. Then the next day she wouldn't run after the ball and her symptoms escalated after that.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Jeez, should I...yes!







SO GLAD! 

I think that is a good plan. 

And of course need to toss out my favorite dog accessory for stability and assistance:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___76105?CS_003=2477120&CS_010=76105


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

I second Jean's recommendation - LOVE that harness. I have to look into the boots......

Can't help but wonder about the ACL and back - although it's a chicken/egg problem - which came first???

ETA -- found this success story about FCE - very interesting!
http://www.thek9rehabcenter.com/success/fce.htm


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I bet the ACL did throw things out of alignment due to compensating for that. Let's hope Starine is back in her GSD dancing shoes soon! Keeping everything crossed that Starine is much better-- and rescovers completely, and smoother than you expect it to be, Sandy. NICE harness, by the way-- I like the fact the dog is really supported well and it looks easy to get on and use? It says fleece-lined and padded chest.. LOVE those comfort features for a dog who is recovering from a surg or something like the ACL thing. Jean knows her doggy-mobility assist stuff! Continues good thoughts and prayers sent out to Miss Starine!


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Sandy that is good news. Sucks about the Giardia, hopefully with some Meds the diarrhea will stop, that will be a help with her moving around right now. With an ACL tear they want the dogs to stay pretty inactive, no running, jumping and slipping on floors is really bad. I haven't had time to read up on the FCE. 

Note: maybe with the ACL tear and the other thing going on her immune system was a bit compromised. Not all dogs exposed to Giardia, get infected. 

I didn't want to upset you earlier but a friend on mine had a dog with a tumor on the spine, they weren't sure it was a tumor until they got in there. Not a good ending.

Val


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

Sandy - great news! I'm sure all will be well, but we'll continue to pray for you! 

I've been meaning to ask you which Ortho doc you prefer at UW. I need to take Ekko in the next few months to have his hip looked at. I'm pretty confident that surgery is in order.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I'm so glad to hear the diagnosis isn't as bad as it could have been. Poor pupper, though, with an ACL injury, back problem, and Giardia. When it rains, it pours!

Here's to hoping Star is back to her old self in no time.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh that is really good news!!!

Giardia stinks, ACL stinks, but they are not terminal!!!

What a nice Christmas gift!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Giardia. Bah. Nasty little amoeba. I hate that little guy. Do I have a bomb smiley? This will work:









ACL tear - Ok. An ACL can be torn lots of ways, and I can see that either Star could have wrenched her back during the same event that hurt her ACL or she responded immediately by tossing her weight abruptly on/across her spine -- a secondary injury. (Not to mention, as the others have, the lumbar/thoracic spine was picking up the extra weight to compensate). 

I do think we're looking at a related ailment and that when you get the ACL healed, the other will abate, or you'll at least, be able to see it more clearly. 

Unless that secondary injury was incredibly forceful, I don't see why a disc injury should be expected. Just my lay opinion, but I'm not seeing it. 

A nice quiet holiday for Star, Sandy and the rest of your pack. Bless all of you.









And please tell Starine that she'll have to wait til next Christmas for this:









We DO expect her to take it easy for now.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

This is great news! What a HUGE relief! As for the way she got the ACL tear--lots of times it's nothing dramatic but the ligament simply wears out from years of overuse. 

Chama has ACL tears in both of her knees and she has adapted. She wears a different harness because of her fatty tumors (the one Jean has would hit one of them) but it has made a huge difference for her maneuverability. 

What kind of joint support do you currently have her on?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Glad to hear the news with Starine. Wish it were better but I am glad it's not any worse!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

We're back. She's resting comfortably with her sporty new ultrasound tummy shave - she is going to be so cold in the snow.

Had a nice long conversation with the vet and med student. I am always so impressed when I come away from UW. Star will need 3-4 weeks of rest and restricted activity, leash walking only. The neuro and ortho specialists sat down together this morning and went over it all and they cannot say definitively which problem is causing her the most trouble. So we have to watch her and it is possible that she may need surgery on the knee at some point if it blows. They also found DJD in her right elbow, based upon the ortho exam. Neither the CCL or the DJD was confirmed by x-ray because they would have done it under anesthesia with the MRI, had we gotten to that point. But they seemed pretty confident in those findings, nonetheless. Ruth, she hasn't been on supplements regularly but I will need to start. I have a bone, joint and soft tissue supplement from a company I've been pleased with, so I'll start her on that along with glucosomine and chondroitin. We have a follow-up appointment in a month for the back, knee and elbow. They gave her Rimadyl for 7 days to reduce the inflammation in the elbow, just to get her through this period.

As for the Giardia, they felt that, without a doubt, I brought it home from the daycare.







She's on panacur for it and I need to do another fecal in 2 weeks. They didn't recommend treating my other dogs unless they started showing symptoms. 

Here's the actual diganosis, this is a small blurb from the 4 page report they sent me home with. The bill was quite reasonable considering everything that they did and the number of doctors involved. The MRI cost was the obscene part of the quote and without that, it was much, much easier to swallow.

T3-L3 myelopathy (vs. cauda equina neropathy) - Mild signs consistent with a T3-L3 myelopathy. She has a normal gait, normal to slow conscious proprioception in her right pelvic limb, slow to absent conscious proprioception in her left pelvic limb, normal spinal reflexes, and no pain on palpation of her spine or tail. Possible causes include Hansen type II intervertebral disc disease, fibrocartilaginous embolozation or neoplasia.

Suspected partial left cranial cruciate rupture and right elbow degenerative joint disease - Orthopedic esamination revealed grade 1/5 left hind limb lameness at a trot. Mild effusion and mild medial buttress present on left stifle, no cranial drawer or tibial thrust. Mild effusion present on the right elbow and pain with right elbow flexion and extrenal rotation. Suspected left stifle synovitis and partial CCL tear and right elbow degenerative joint disease.

Giardia - Fecal flotation on 12/2/08 detected moderate numbers of Giardia oocysts.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Glad she's home - She needs a reverse blanket for her belly in the snow









I'll keep the healing thoughts heading your direction


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

Sandy, I'm so glad she is home with you now and I bet she is too. I'm glad to hear that it is nothing life threatening. I hope she has a full and speedy recovery!!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Star's doing pretty good, she's not any worse at least. Here's a pic from today, you can tell by her face that she's not feeling like herself. I got a shot where she's not going to be embarrassed by her shaved belly.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Oh Sandy that face makes me feel bad. Poor girl. 

The same isn't that bad, but there might be such minor improvment changes that it will take a while for you to see. 

Hugs to Starine.

Val


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Sandy,

How's Starine doing these days?


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## Sean Rescue Mom (Jan 24, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangSandy,How's Starine doing these days?


Any update???


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

How is Starine?


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Sandy, how is Starine doing?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Oh Sandy, there are some anxious folks here wondering how Miss Starine is doing. Tapping foot on the floor.

Val


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

At least we can eat while we wait


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Barb I think we need to set up a Cyber party before the Holidays.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

_*Pass the popcorn, please.*_

I do hope Star's feeling more herself.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Murphy-Elperroguapo_*Pass the popcorn, please.*_
> 
> I do hope Star's feeling more herself.


Yep lunch time here!!!









How is Starine???


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerBarb I think we need to set up a Cyber party before the Holidays.


I don't think I've ever been a part of a cyber party


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Hopefully there is news to toast to!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I think I'm getting bloated on popcorn while I'm waiting for (hopefully) good news. . .


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Oh Gosh! Jamie has bloat!









Here, take this Gax X {pinpricking the capsules and squeezing four of them down the back of her tongue....}

Where's your nearest Emergency Room?

Where's Jean? I always talk to Jean in an emergency.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomOh Gosh! Jamie has bloat!


That was NOT funny!

Until I realized that, oh, Jaime, oh, of course, the human, not a GSD!!!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Sorry Lisa.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomSorry Lisa.










I'm just kinda a dork sometimes. I'm used to that


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Barb E.At least we can eat while we wait


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Sorry guys that I haven't responded! I've been reading things on the health forum and totally missed all these responses.







I swear, I didn't see the numbers with the new posts, maybe it's our new Internet service???

Anyhow, she's been doing better and was flipping around a new toy two days ago like her old self. Her activity is still limited, but it was a reassuring sign. Today a mild set-back because she was showing some lameness in the leg with the cruciate tear after going to the vet. I think it was due to getting in and out of the car. She needed her rabies and we went to a different local vet. I was feeling so much guilt about changing vets, but I made the change for many reasons. The new vet was recommended by a friend and I really liked her. I was worried about how she would feel about my minimal vaccine approach but she was very open to doing the distemper/parvo titer and didn't even bring up the issue of any other vacs.







Staff was so warm and friendly and I love the fact that they are available 24/7 on call to meet you at the office for emergencies. Saw an example of that today and it was very impressive. Star does have a follow-up in Madison on Jan. 6th.

I do have a question about how much glucosomine/chondroitin/MSM everyone is using. The vet recommended the usual amount plus salmon oil, but I'm wondering how high of a dose I can actually use. I remember people posting that they were using higher amounts than normally recommended.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Are her sutures totally healed? Anti-inflammatories (when stacked, like we like to do) can cause bleeding issues. So I always want to be sure that we're not dealing with open wounds.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

No sutures, she didn't have surgery. Had 7 days of Rimadyl, but since she's been off it there isn't too much of a difference. A little bit, but not enough where I would want to put her on it long term.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomOh Gosh! Jamie has bloat!


OMG. . .I am so trying to hide my laughter right now (which is super hard to do) cuz I'm at work. That was hi-larious!

Sandy, I'm glad to hear Star is feeling better. Hopefully her small tweak will go away soon.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: agilegsds....I do have a question about how much glucosomine/chondroitin/MSM everyone is using. The vet recommended the usual amount plus salmon oil, but I'm wondering how high of a dose I can actually use. I remember people posting that they were using higher amounts than normally recommended.


Good news all around, with the recovery, and with the vet -- it's about time you checked in!!

I am comfortable giving my boy a human dose, whatever that means. Right now I'm only giving 1000/800 mg of G&S for Max, and 1000mg of fish oil capsule - he doesn't have active arthritis. I'd like to find a product more like the Longevity product to throw in the mix, but he has too many allergies, and I haven't found the right product.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Glad to hear the news Sandy!! So happy she is doing better and that she will be with you this Christmas!!!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Just catching up here! I'm so glad that Star is feeling better!









I use a ton of gluc/chondroitin for Chama. I asked my vet and he said he's confident it won't harm her. 

She gets a double dose of Longevity and a 3/4 loading dose of Cetyl-M Advanced Joint Support. It really is helping her. She's doing much better now than she was before I doubled up.


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

I thought I read a research article that more than 1500mg of Gluc will not have any additional effect. 

I can't seem to give Ekko more than 500mg per day... it sets his system off if I give him more.

Edited to add: Oh, and I give him NAG instead of chondroitin or sulfate.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

It could be the cetyl-M...who knows???? I just know that the combo is working well.


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIt could be the cetyl-M...who knows???? I just know that the combo is working well.


NAG stands for n-acetyl Glucosamine. It's a precursor to Hyaluronic acid. I'm not sure what the cetyl-M combo has in it. What do the ingredients say?


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## Sean Rescue Mom (Jan 24, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: TulaI can't seem to give Ekko more than 500mg per day... it sets his system off if I give him more.


Same here, Tula. We give Sean a combo. of 500 mg glucosamine/400 mg chondroitin. So far so good!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Star had her follow-up neuro exam at UW on Tuesday. The result was pretty much the same as I was seeing. She's showing slight improvement but hasn't gotten worse. Since there's been no worsening of the neuro symptoms they don't need to see her again unless it gets worse. Now they're leaning towards a mild disc problem which they said was common in GSDs her age. 

That's good news, I guess, but it doesn't stop me from being sad at seeing her unable to do things she used to love to do. I have to keep reminding myself that it is part of the aging process and there's a lot of things I can no longer do either! What I can do for her is address the arthritis, which I think is now responsible for most of the symptoms I'm seeing. After researching a ton of stuff, I've started her on Glyco-Flex III. Each tablet is 1000 mg glucosomine, 1000 mg MSM, 600 mg green lipped mussel, 100 mg DMG, among other things. For the frontloading of 4-6 weeks she gets 2 tablets a day, then one a day after that for maintenance. It sounds like a lot but that's the label instructions and I decided to go with as much as she can tolerate and hope we get some results. I started her yesterday and no stomach upset yet.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Glad to hear everything is okay - not perfect but okay. Of course it's hard to see them slow down or have to give things up (Gracie isn't 3 yet and has had to give up herding due to her back). Sounds like you've got a good supplement regimne going there. Just go very slowly with them. You don't have any chondroitin so that is good - that can cause a lot of stomach upset, I've been told. The Glyco-flex is very good.







to you and <sluprs> to Star!


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

I'm sorry to hear that Gracie had to give up herding.







That's what I feel bad about with Star. She loves to herd but I stopped taking her because it was a 2.5 hour drive for me each way and with the trainer's schedule I had to take off work to do it. Now I wish I had done it longer, while she still could.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I haven't waded through 8 pages so I don't recall if any one mentioned chiropractic or accupuncture for Starine but that has really helped my dogs a lot.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Sandy glad to hear she has not gotten worse! Hope she continues slow steady progress.

What a girl sweet Starine!


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## Tula (May 21, 2004)

Sandy, sorry that she hasn't shown great improvement, but glad she hasn't worsened. I'm sure it's gotta be tough for you not to have her do things like she has. I second the chiropractic and acupuncture. Is that something you may pursue?


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

If Star can handle the loading dose you get better results than just starting at the normal maintenance dose.

It is sad when they slow down, but I always remind myself that slow is good and living. LOL you don't see a lot of 80 - 90 year old athletes.

Val


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereI haven't waded through 8 pages so I don't recall if any one mentioned chiropractic or accupuncture for Starine but that has really helped my dogs a lot.


Ditto that. It can help prevent mild disc disease turn into moderated, and then severe disc disease.


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

Just saw this update Sandy. Wish she had more improvement but glad to hear she is not getting worse.









Thanks for the update.


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