# Want to breed



## Winnal

We have a female we want to breed. What do you think?


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## wolfy dog

I am curious what you were thinking....


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## Glaicer

Breeding is a labor of love. First and foremost is your dog purebred? If she is, she needs to be tested in some manner to prove her working ability and temperament around stressful situations. A lot of people use schutzhund and herding, some use other sports. Ideally the dog would be shown as well, to how well they match up against the written standard. After that there's health testing, Hip, elbows, and some folks submit the DM testing. These hip and elbow x-rays need to be evaluated by either the SV or OFA, the score should be fair, good, or excellent to prove you are breeding sound animals. Tf all else checks out you then have to learn to read pedigrees, and find a mate whose bloodlines will cross well with your dogs. Some bloodlines blend beautifully, some are train wrecks when they are combined. It's a lot of work to breed in a manner that betters the overall gene-pool.


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## Galathiel

Husky? Your dog's nails are very long. With the information you've provided (none), there is no reason to breed your dog and a lot of reasons why you shouldn't.


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## voodoolamb

What titles has she received and what health testing have you done? What's her pedigree?


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## kimbale

Winnal said:


> We have a female we want to breed. What do you think?


Why do you want to breed her? Has she proven herself in any way? Schutzhund titles, obedience titles, anything? Do you believe that she will better the breed and do you have a way to prove it? Has she had any health testing to see if she's a carrier of one of the many genetic problems that plague the breed? Do you even know of she's purebred? You litterally just asked in another thread if we think she's pure. 

Why do you want to breed her?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## WateryTart

What kind of dog is she?


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## Muskeg

Nobody on this forum is likely to support breeding a mixed-breed GSD with unknown pedigree and no health clearances.


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## carmspack

what do you know about the breed?


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## wolfy dog

She got us going. Might as well ignore this now.


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## goofygsd

The pic isn't the best to determine full breed, but even being purebred the coloration is an automatically disqualifies her. Also to breed appropriately would need a pedigree history with Schutzhund or Herding titled dogs all that have been thoroughly health tested and xrayed. You would also have to title her in Schutzhund or Tracking, no other sport is considered qualifying by German breeding standards. 


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## selzer

The bitch is AKC. I admit the color does not really look GSDish to me, but I suppose if panda's are purebred, it might be too. In fact, I would be more likely to think this is than a panda. 

Before I would breed this bitch, if at all possible, I would have the DNA checked with the AKC if the sire's DNA is on file. If the stud was used more than 3 times in a year, or 7 times overall, the DNA has to be on file. Because the coloring is strange, I would want to be as sure as possible that there wasn't a midnight caller. 

Beyond that, what is your purpose in breeding the bitch?

What do you hope to produce in a litter out of your bitch?

What are your dog's faults and how will you address them in the dog that you choose? 

What do you know about the process of breeding/mating/whelping/raising a litter?

Do you have someone hands-on that can walk you through any difficulties with whelping the litter, raising the puppies, and finding good homes for them?

There is actually a lot to consider, some risk involved, and time and effort before, during, and after the acts of mating, whelping, and raising the litter. It might be helpful to know what you have done so far and what your timeline is.


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## Winnal

Guys, so many questions that don't even hold any ground.

First of all, she is AKC registered, with a 4-gen pedigree and sire does have DNA so I WILL be doing testing.

Secondly, what kind of question is, what's your purpose in breeding the bitch? Ask any breeder that same question, because it's enjoyable and you want to see your dog's special (to you, of course you want to have valid proof) talents and just their bloodline in general be passed down assuming that the dog is suited for being purebred as in it continues the purebred standard of that breed...



kimbale said:


> Why do you want to breed her? Has she proven herself in any way? Schutzhund titles, obedience titles, anything? Do you believe that she will better the breed and do you have a way to prove it? Has she had any health testing to see if she's a carrier of one of the many genetic problems that plague the breed? Do you even know of she's purebred? You litterally just asked in another thread if we think she's pure.
> 
> Why do you want to breed her?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


No, but doesn't mean she doesn't have potential. She's super fast and agile, obedient and calm, also very vocal like GSDs are known for... What I want to find out is how I can get her these titles and take her to trials and shows...

Her hips are super healthy, we had a vet check her teeth and he said they were unbelievably good looking. Thick fur around the neck, long neck, straight back, long legs... she's got everything going for her, that's why I want to breed.

None of you guys are even a bit discouraging me from breeding even though you want to be, cuz you don't know anything about the dog and you just assume it's bad.


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## Deb

Some articles for you.


So You Want to Breed Dogs? - American Kennel Club


So you want to be a breeder?


Before you breed.....please consider all the ramifications - Save Our Shepherds - German Shepherd Rescue


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## gsdsar

If you ask a reputable breeder why they bred a certain dog, they will answer with way more than "it's fun and she's a great dog with thick neck fur and good teeth." 

The answer will be more along the lines of , "she has excellent nerve strength, courage that has been tested and evaluated, she is appropriately biddable and has a strong work ethic with solid Hunt drives, and a good balance of defense and prey drive. Her angulation is correct and she fits breed standard. We bred her to this male because because he brings power to guard, he has good bone, solid nerve and has proven work ethic through xxxx working endevour and testing. Together their pedigree bring in a 5-4 line breeding with xxx Vom kennel, which will add power and clear headedness to work but remain neutral in a family home"

There is so much that goes into breeding. 

If you want to breed. Great. The world needs good conscientious breeders. So become one. PROVE that your girl has the qualities that make this breed great and deserves to pass on her genes. It means finding a mentor. Getting her out their and proving she has the necessary drive/work ethic/ structure to be considered. LEARN about your girl. Find and recognize her faults and work with someone who can help you decifer if those faults disqualify her.


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## Jax08

1. Go to a vet. Get her hips and elbows xrayed. Send them to the OFA/
2. Join a club or get a trainer. Choose a sport and train her. Title her.
3. Take her to conformation shows. If SV shows, get a rating on her. If AKC, put a title on her.

You need to prove that, other than your vet thinking she has nice teeth, thick fur around her neck, long neck, straight back and long legs (none of which is in the standard, by the way) that she actually has traits of the standard that should be carried on to the next generation to ensure the continuation of the breed.

Personally, I've seen dogs with the same pattern as this. One was on the WUSV team a couple of year ago. BUT her color is washed out and her head doesn't look right. The other dog had a great head and rich coloring.


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## Winnal

gsdsar said:


> If you ask a reputable breeder why they bred a certain dog, they will answer with way more than "it's fun and she's a great dog with thick neck fur and good teeth."
> 
> The answer will be more along the lines of , "she has excellent nerve strength, courage that has been tested and evaluated, she is appropriately biddable and has a strong work ethic with solid Hunt drives, and a good balance of defense and prey drive. Her angulation is correct and she fits breed standard. We bred her to this male because because he brings power to guard, he has good bone, solid nerve and has proven work ethic through xxxx working endevour and testing. Together their pedigree bring in a 5-4 line breeding with xxx Vom kennel, which will add power and clear headedness to work but remain neutral in a family home"
> 
> There is so much that goes into breeding.
> 
> If you want to breed. Great. The world needs good conscientious breeders. So become one. PROVE that your girl has the qualities that make this breed great and deserves to pass on her genes. It means finding a mentor. Getting her out their and proving she has the necessary drive/work ethic/ structure to be considered. LEARN about your girl. Find and recognize her faults and work with someone who can help you decifer if those faults disqualify her.


they may say more than that, and that's why im here to learn... but they certainly got interested probably from those reasons. If you have an excellent health dog with high potential why wouldn't you want to learn about breeding at least to know your options and also get her properly vetted and trained?


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## Jax08

goofygsd said:


> You would also have to title her in Schutzhund or Tracking, no other sport is considered qualifying by German breeding standards.
> 
> 
> Rachael & Solo from KS



???? Tracking????


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## Momto2GSDs

Find a German Shepherd Club or Schutzhund club in your area and GO, listen, learn, ask questions, find a mentor!


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## Winnal

gsdsar said:


> "she has excellent nerve strength, courage that has been tested and evaluated, she is appropriately biddable and has a strong work ethic with solid Hunt drives, and a good balance of defense and prey drive.


All of those qualities come basically from a very strong and healthy dog that is trained well. Of course I want to say she has all of those qualities or at least the potential, I just need to start taking her to be tested and evaluated and that's basically what I'm asking.

Some people have posted links and suggestions I definitely am considerate of.



Momto2GSDs said:


> Find a German Shepherd Club or Schutzhund club in your area and GO, listen, learn, ask questions, find a mentor!


I will! Thanks! That's what I wanted to hear about.

And thanks for your other post on my locked post by the way.


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## LuvShepherds

Winnal said:


> they may say more than that, and that's why im here to learn... but they certainly got interested probably from those reasons. If you have an excellent health dog with high potential why wouldn't you want to learn about breeding at least to know your options and also get her properly vetted and trained?


There is a very strong possibility your dog isn't purebred. Find that out first. Wait until she is over age two and get her hips and elbows certified, check for DM. Title her in something respected. Then come back and ask about breeding. You aren't there yet.


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## Jax08

Winnal said:


> All of those qualities come basically from a very strong and healthy dog that is trained well. .


No. Those qualities come from genetics. Either the dog has them or he doesn't.

A healthy and strong dog does not mean a dog with balanced drives and nerve. An unhealthy and weak dog does not mean the dog doesn't have strong nerves.

You can not train drives and nerve into a dog. They are what they are.

I don't think you have a grasp on what makes a dog breed worthy, what drives are, what nerve is, and the only way to learn that is to get off the internet, go out and train your dog. Watch the other dogs. Talk to knowledgeable people.


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## Deb

(Elements of Temperament, by Joy Tiz )


An excellent article to explain what people are talking about when they talk about drives, thresholds, nerve, etc..


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## ghinchcl

*Purebred???*



Winnal said:


> We have a female we want to breed. What do you think?


Winnal, WTF, in one forum you ask if your dog is purebred and in the next you want to breed????? Really, or is this an early April fool's joke


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## astrovan2487

A dog is not breed worthy based on perceived potential. I bet your dog is a good dog, prove it by getting her health tested (actual x-rays of hips/elbows being sent to OFA or SV and given a passing score, DM test, ect.) and use her great potential to train her in something challenging out in public. How a dog acts in it's own home or comfort zone is not a good indication of it's nerves. If a dog has such great potential it's a shame not to allow that dog to live up to it. 

Get educated on the breed, know the breed standard and be open minded and ready to learn because most people with pet GSDs have no clue. There are a lot of GSD experts out there, many on these forums that are a wealth of information. I understand that wanting to have and raise puppies is something enjoyable and fun but in this day and age when thousands of dogs are put to sleep everyday we need to be smart and responsible about our decisions. Bringing 6-12 more puppies into this world is a big responsibility. Bringing 6-12 puppies with unknown health history and unknown temperament into this world is just impulsive and careless.


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## selzer

If you ask a breeder what their purpose is in breeding this bitch to this dog, they should be able to give you an answer. There should be some methodology to the selection of bitch and dog, and a direction in which the breeder is going. The selection should take into consideration the bloodlines as well as the individual dogs, what the dogs produce not just what traits they have, and if you have been working on it for a while, what traits a dog improves, not just what traits the dog possesses. 

Each of my questions was asked simply and directly, not to "discourage" but to encourage you to do it right, to educate yourself, and to get connected with someone who will help you out. 

The place to meet the people you need are training clubs, training classes. And don't expect it to happen over-night. If you picked an excellent breeder from the beginning that wasn't too far away, then cultivate that relationship, and learn from them, learn about them before you decide. It sometimes takes getting dirty, spending time in classes and in clubs before a breeder believes you are serious enough and have something to offer, for them to accept you as someone they want to help learn. 

There are a few breeders here. Carmen already wrote you off pretty much. This just isn't a venue to mentor people to become breeders. You can't train and evaluate dogs over a computer, and you can't breed a bitch or whelp a litter over the computer. At 2 AM when your bitch is circling and straining, if you come on here, there might be one or two newbies that will scream at you to get to the vet, which may or may not be the thing to do. 

Sorry, I am just telling it like it is. You are taking it as though it is discouraging. Discouraged over words isn't a good start, really. I know a lady who waited years for a pup, and then trained her in all kinds of things only to find she had HD. Ok, she kept her and loved her and got a second pup, and did the same, only to have some other heritable disease. She kept her and loved her, and waited for a few more years and put in another shepherd only to have her hopes dashed yet again. Another lady lost her bitch and had to hand-raise the puppies. And a friend of mine nearly lost her bitch and all the puppies. Talk about discouraging. Ah well, some things we are just determined to learn the hard way. 

My mentor, a lady that was breeding and raising champions before I was born, half a century, would say to me, "I have to learn from other people's mistakes, I don't have time to make them all myself."


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## Winnal

astrovan2487 said:


> A dog is not breed worthy based on perceived potential. I bet your dog is a good dog, prove it by getting her health tested (actual x-rays of hips/elbows being sent to OFA or SV and given a passing score, DM test, ect.) and use her great potential to train her in something challenging out in public. How a dog acts in it's own home or comfort zone is not a good indication of it's nerves. If a dog has such great potential it's a shame not to allow that dog to live up to it.
> 
> Get educated on the breed, know the breed standard and be open minded and ready to learn because most people with pet GSDs have no clue. There are a lot of GSD experts out there, many on these forums that are a wealth of information. I understand that wanting to have and raise puppies is something enjoyable and fun but in this day and age when thousands of dogs are put to sleep everyday we need to be smart and responsible about our decisions. Bringing 6-12 more puppies into this world is a big responsibility. Bringing 6-12 puppies with unknown health history and unknown temperament into this world is just impulsive and careless.


Dude, people just cannot read without being completely straight forward about the exact last reply when I've been saying obviously I have to prove it and I'm here to ask the avenues to do so...............................................................................................................................


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## Winnal

selzer said:


> If you ask a breeder what their purpose is in breeding this bitch to this dog, they should be able to give you an answer. There should be some methodology to the selection of bitch and dog, and a direction in which the breeder is going. The selection should take into consideration the bloodlines as well as the individual dogs, what the dogs produce not just what traits they have, and if you have been working on it for a while, what traits a dog improves, not just what traits the dog possesses.
> 
> Each of my questions was asked simply and directly, not to "discourage" but to encourage you to do it right, to educate yourself, and to get connected with someone who will help you out.
> 
> The place to meet the people you need are training clubs, training classes. And don't expect it to happen over-night. If you picked an excellent breeder from the beginning that wasn't too far away, then cultivate that relationship, and learn from them, learn about them before you decide. It sometimes takes getting dirty, spending time in classes and in clubs before a breeder believes you are serious enough and have something to offer, for them to accept you as someone they want to help learn.
> 
> There are a few breeders here. Carmen already wrote you off pretty much. This just isn't a venue to mentor people to become breeders. You can't train and evaluate dogs over a computer, and you can't breed a bitch or whelp a litter over the computer. At 2 AM when your bitch is circling and straining, if you come on here, there might be one or two newbies that will scream at you to get to the vet, which may or may not be the thing to do.
> 
> Sorry, I am just telling it like it is. You are taking it as though it is discouraging. Discouraged over words isn't a good start, really. I know a lady who waited years for a pup, and then trained her in all kinds of things only to find she had HD. Ok, she kept her and loved her and got a second pup, and did the same, only to have some other heritable disease. She kept her and loved her, and waited for a few more years and put in another shepherd only to have her hopes dashed yet again. Another lady lost her bitch and had to hand-raise the puppies. And a friend of mine nearly lost her bitch and all the puppies. Talk about discouraging. Ah well, some things we are just determined to learn the hard way.
> 
> My mentor, a lady that was breeding and raising champions before I was born, half a century, would say to me, "I have to learn from other people's mistakes, I don't have time to make them all myself."


And Im here to figure that out everyone has to start somehwere.

the way youre posting basically being skeptical rather than just te4lling me staright instead of constantly doubting is not helping. I dont need opinions just facts.


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## Deb

Fact: Your dog does not meet the standard.


https://cdn.akc.org/GermanShepherdDog.pdf


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## Winnal

Deb said:


> Fact: Your dog does not meet the standard.
> 
> 
> https://cdn.akc.org/GermanShepherdDog.pdf


ok.


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## Winnal

ghinchcl said:


> Winnal, WTF, in one forum you ask if your dog is purebred and in the next you want to breed????? Really, or is this an early April fool's joke


From that post we established grounds that she could be pure if I get dna tested for sire and sire is dna recorded so there's little reason for them to lie about the sire. and someone said they auto get dna'd after certain amount of litter, what does that matter if it provides proof?


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## Deb

Fact: Until you x-ray your dog and have her checked for DM, you will not know if she can pass on genetic faults.


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## Winnal

Jax08 said:


> No. Those qualities come from genetics. Either the dog has them or he doesn't.
> 
> A healthy and strong dog does not mean a dog with balanced drives and nerve. An unhealthy and weak dog does not mean the dog doesn't have strong nerves.
> 
> You can not train drives and nerve into a dog. They are what they are.
> 
> I don't think you have a grasp on what makes a dog breed worthy, what drives are, what nerve is, and the only way to learn that is to get off the internet, go out and train your dog. Watch the other dogs. Talk to knowledgeable people.


So why are you on here then? on the internet?


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## Winnal

Deb said:


> Fact: Until you x-ray your dog and have her checked for DM, you will not know if she can pass on genetic faults.


there are signs of hp displasia for example like their stance, that's all ime saying


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## Deb

Winnal said:


> From that post we established grounds that she could be pure if I get dna tested for sire and sire is dna recorded so there's little reason for them to lie about the sire. and someone said they auto get dna'd after certain amount of litter, what does that matter if it provides proof?


Fact: If you have her DNA'd by AKC they will check if her DNA matches the sire's, who is on record, and then and only then will you know she is the daughter of that sire. 


Fact: You can send in a general DNA test to a company to see what breed they say she is.


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## astrovan2487

Winnal said:


> Dude, people just cannot read without being completely straight forward about the exact last reply when I've been saying obviously I have to prove it and I'm here to ask the avenues to do so...............................................................................................................................


Hey dude, pretty obvious you are just trolling this forum. Making 4 posts one after another about the same thing trying to incite drama. Contradicting yourself in multiple posts. I think we all just need to ignore this one at this point.
Really liking this new ignore feature on the forum


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## Deb

Winnal said:


> there are signs of hp displasia for example like their stance, that's all ime saying



That's an opinion, you said you wanted facts. 


Fact: I had a dog with Hip Dysplasia. You could NOT tell by her stance.


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## Winnal

Deb said:


> That's an opinion, you said you wanted facts.
> 
> 
> Fact: I had a dog with Hip Dysplasia. You could NOT tell by her stance.


umm i said signs tho not 100% positive... not really an opinion i read it up on a narticle about dog health specifically hip dysplasia

and that link about drive and temperment, my dog has excellent prey drive, and defense drive.. hear sound aroudn house goes running barking... chases anything small that moves fast...

and nerve wise she doesn't really get scared of anything. at all. never backs up stands ground and all her hairs on the top of her back like a mohawk stands up.

im obviously not professionally versed in understanding it by any means but i do have an idea what it means.


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## HolyFriedFish

Forgive me if this has been brought up or if I'm wrong, but don't you need a full registration to breed and get AKC-registered puppies? From what I remember, full registration can only be obtained with the breeder's permission (and is more expensive than the limited registration). I don't know if you have one or not, Winnal, but that's another thing to think about/be aware of


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