# GSD over 100lbs!



## ameder

Does anyone else have a GSD over 100lbs? I estimate my dog Jax to be 115lb. He was 108 about two months ago. The vet says he's perfectly fine and not overweight but when I see other GSDs, Jax looks like a bear!

I feed him once a day (in the mornings). Should I be feeding him smaller portions twice a day?


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## Slamdunc

I would absolutely feed him twice a day. I would be concerned about bloat and limiting his food at each feeding. 

He is a beautiful dog.

You posted this thread in "Braggs!!" Why do you think a GSD over 100 lbs is something to brag about? I'm just curious as it pertains to another thread on the forum regarding GSD's and weight.


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## car2ner

My boy's sire was 110, not fat at all with a great temperament. He was imported from Germany and had his BH. I suspect he was sold to my breeder because he was over the standard and no one in Germany would breed him, but crazy Americans would. My boy is gorgeous and has a wonderful personality and is now 90 lbs at age 3. 

But with his size and long hair I suspect it is harder for him in the heat. He is a tank where my much smaller female is a rocket. 

Your guy is gorgeous. I feed my dogs a small breakfast, then training treats through the day...which I try to keep as healthy treats...then a larger dinner since I know we'll be settling down for the night. 


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## scarfish

yeah i wouldn't brag about an over 100lb GSD. i'm hoping to get 14 years out of my normal sized girl. you might lose your dog at 8 or 9. if big is in his genetics nothing you can do though. i would cut his food in half and feed twice. not because of bloat but for digestive regularity. good looking dog though! good luck with him and stick around and post more pics.


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## Jenny720

He a very handsome dog. I like feeding two meals a day -for myself it seems to help me focus more on what and how much I'm feeding the dogs. In the past I have fed dogs once a day and often it was quick and rushed. Our first Gsd developed bad arthritis in his later years and was harder to keep the weight off as exercise was lessened. He was not grossly over weight 90 lbs he was thin and in good shape anything over that he was overweight so we kept watch it does sneak up which can happen fast. The 100lbs mark we knew we had work to do. Being overweight takes years off a dog they don't have many. Max is he could stand to loose about 2 -3 pounds. He is roughly about 83lbs. The winter has been rough on the both of us lol! Spring is coming yay! Our King Charles was the most challenging dog I ever had keeping weight off it was a battle of the bulge. she did not eat much dog food but would eat Who knows what outside. We tested her thyroid and everything -later I found it was peanuts in them wild bird food outside that may have been adding to the cause her weight gain.


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## ameder

I didn't mean to brag! I had no idea how to start a post and I just click around a few times until I saw an area to post a a thread. I'm very new to this forum. once I posted it, I saw that it was being put in the "brag" section and I didn't know how to retract it! lol


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## Chip18

ameder said:


> I didn't mean to brag! I had no idea how to start a post and I just click around a few times until I saw an area to post a a thread. I'm very new to this forum. once I posted it, I saw that it was being put in the "brag" section and I didn't know how to retract it! lol


Oh no sweat I imagine just starting out forums are a bit confusing???

Rocky is an Over Size Wl GSD also he was 116 at 14 months many years ago now and 112 today. I never heard the "Bear" bit before. But I get is he a "Wolf" quite a bit ... I always say, no he's just a dog. Welcome aboard and he's a handsome boy.


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## Dracovich

Mine was 132 last year and his last weigh in a couple weeks ago he was 107.

I feed my boy 3 cups a day, 2 in the morning and 1 in the evening. I also soak his kibble in warm water to get more moisture into his diet; Dr. Karen Becker mentioned it in one of her videos.

It’s true that a smaller dog would have a longer life span, but that does not mean bigger dogs should be avoided. My Pyr is bigger than my GSD, she might have a shorter life span but that doesn’t mean I should have gotten a smaller dog. Great Danes have very short lives, too, but that wouldn’t make me avoid the breed.

Don’t let people shame you because your dog might not live as long, yes you should always look for breeders that breed within the standard, I don’t know where you got your dog from, but longer lifespan doesn’t mean a superior dog, if it did I would have a Dachshund.


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## semcat66

Jax is beautiful! As Dracovich posted, I wouldn't worry about what other people think about weight/life span. My 9 y/o female GSH/Golden Retriever mix is about 105 right now (once the weather turns a bit nicer, she'll "slim down" to about 95lbs). As a larger dog, she might have a shorter lifespan than a smaller GSH but I wouldn't give up the years I've had (and will have for whatever time she has left) with her at all. As long as your vet says Jax is at a healthy weight, don't sweat it. Bonita is on a raw diet and I feed her in the morning (chicken thigh or small leg quarter) and in the evening (chicken leg) and she gets a few healthy snacks throughout the day. With the addition of our new puppy, she's been getting a few extra training treats and beef ribs.


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## Slamdunc

The dog that the OP posted is absolutely a beautiful dog. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

It is concerning to me when people do not worry about the life span, weight and overall health of their dogs. I'm sorry that I am going to be blunt again, but overweight dogs are not healthy dogs. A GSD carrying an extra 10-20 lbs on their frame is going to have trouble with joints, spine and movement and the lifespan will most definitely be shortened. If a person is ok with a fat Gsd that only lives to 8 years old, I guess that is their choice. It is not a good enough choice for my dogs and I owe them that. People with heavy dogs do to love their dogs anymore or any less than I love mine, I just care for mine is a far healthier way. 

Here is Boomer last week at 11 years old recalling and jumping a 4' ditch. He weighs a skinny 70 something lbs. The dog is still agile, still works and can still run. If I killed him with kindness and treats and got him to 90 lbs as a younger dog I doubt he would be doing so well today. His heaviest was a lean, muscular 84 lbs.


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## cloudpump

Slamdunc said:


> The dog that the OP posted is absolutely a beautiful dog. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
> 
> It is concerning to me when people do not worry about the life span, weight and overall health of their dogs. I'm sorry that I am going to be blunt again, but overweight dogs are not healthy dogs. A GSD carrying an extra 10-20 lbs on their frame is going to have trouble with joints, spine and movement and the lifespan will most definitely be shortened. If a person is ok with a fat Gsd that only lives to 8 years old, I guess that is their choice. It is not a good enough choice for my dogs and I owe them that. People with heavy dogs do to love their dogs anymore or any less than I love mine, I just care for mine is a far healthier way.
> 
> Here is Boomer last week at 11 years old recalling and jumping a 4' ditch. He weighs a skinny 70 something lbs. The dog is still agile, still works and can still run. If I killed him with kindness and treats and got him to 90 lbs as a younger dog I doubt he would be doing so well today. His heaviest was a lean, muscular 84 lbs.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_6Mg0N-wEo


Still looks sorry to me. Who's the other dog?


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## Slamdunc

cloudpump said:


> Still looks sorry to me. Who's the other dog?


Still looks sorry? Autocorrect? :surprise:

The other dog is Francesca my 2 year old GSD, she's very fast but does not recall like Boomer. Back in the day, I clocked his recall at 32mph.


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## Dotbat215

If your dog's lifespan is short simply because of his breed that's one thing. If it is short because he is carrying extra weight then that's a whole other issue. 

I doubt anyone is suggesting that bigger breeds who have shorter average lifespans are bad or shouldn't be owned. What is being suggested is to keep your dog at a healthy weight to maximize lifespan


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## cloudpump

Slamdunc said:


> Still looks sorry? Autocorrect? :surprise:
> 
> The other dog is Francesca my 2 year old GSD, she's very fast but does not recall like Boomer. Back in the day, I clocked his recall at 32mph.


Darn autocorrect! Spry! Lol


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## MineAreWorkingline

cloudpump said:


> Darn autocorrect! Spry! Lol


That's more like it! LOL


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## Slamdunc

Dotbat215 said:


> If your dog's lifespan is short simply because of his breed that's one thing. If it is short because he is carrying extra weight then that's a whole other issue.
> 
> I doubt anyone is suggesting that bigger breeds who have shorter average lifespans are bad or shouldn't be owned. What is being suggested is to keep your dog at a healthy weight to maximize lifespan


This^^^^ Exactly, what I was trying to say.


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## semcat66

Slamdunc said:


> The dog that the OP posted is absolutely a beautiful dog. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
> 
> It is concerning to me when people do not worry about the life span, weight and overall health of their dogs. I'm sorry that I am going to be blunt again, but overweight dogs are not healthy dogs. A GSD carrying an extra 10-20 lbs on their frame is going to have trouble with joints, spine and movement and the lifespan will most definitely be shortened. If a person is ok with a fat Gsd that only lives to 8 years old, I guess that is their choice. It is not a good enough choice for my dogs and I owe them that. People with heavy dogs do to love their dogs anymore or any less than I love mine, I just care for mine is a far healthier way.
> 
> Here is Boomer last week at 11 years old recalling and jumping a 4' ditch. He weighs a skinny 70 something lbs. The dog is still agile, still works and can still run. If I killed him with kindness and treats and got him to 90 lbs as a younger dog I doubt he would be doing so well today. His heaviest was a lean, muscular 84 lbs.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_6Mg0N-wEo


Boomer is looking great. I understand the "overweight" line of thinking, but my vet doesn't think Bonita is overweight. She thinks she is right where she needs to be (except for the 5-8lbs she needs to lose now that winter has ended). As she has gotten older, we have had to restrict her calories since she doesn't get quite as much exercise (although I think getting Porter will be helping on that front). Bonita is just a big dog, not overweight.


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## Dracovich

If GSDs were limited to the same height, length and depth, their desired weight would be similar. Assuming a 100 lb GSD is overweight is naive, it implies that all GSDs are the same dimension, when in all likeliness this dog is taller, longer or deeper than the breed standard, making them heavier. The issue is not with obesity but with breeders making poor choices.

I don't really get why a heavy dog is instantly assumed to be overweight? The dog in the picture looks a reasonable weight to me, if he were meant to be within breed standard he would be much more pudgy than in the picture.


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## Heartandsoul

Your boy is so handsome! Can you take a standing pic looking down at him. It will show better how he has s carrying that weight. I had a mix that was fat. Finally took the rose glasses off and did something about it. Did this when she was 11. She became so agile and acted like a pup again. She crossed at just shy of 15. I won't beat myself up for getting her fat but I know for certain that had she not lost the weight when she did, I would have lost her 3yrs sooner. The summer before she passed she was running circles round my young gsd.

Check his weight by the feel of his ribs and backbone. Tons of threads on how to gauge it. Your going to do fine by this boy.


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## Slamdunc

Dracovich said:


> If GSDs were limited to the same height, length and depth, their desired weight would be similar. Assuming a 100 lb GSD is overweight is naive, it implies that all GSDs are the same dimension, when in all likeliness this dog is taller, longer or deeper than the breed standard, making them heavier. The issue is not with obesity but with breeders making poor choices.
> 
> I don't really get why a heavy dog is instantly assumed to be overweight? The dog in the picture looks a reasonable weight to me, if he were meant to be within breed standard he would be much more pudgy than in the picture.


I never said the dog in the photo was overweight, but if a dog was at the breed standard he would not be "pudgy." Reasonable is not the correct standard or way to judge weight on a dog. That is purely subjective, and we need to be objective when analyzing our dogs, in weight, shape, temperament and working abilities. Many folks are not objective nor are they "reasonable when it comes to their own dogs. I suppose people and vets need to see more fit and in shape dogs to be able to judge reasonably. I admit, I have a serious advantage as I am around and work athletic dogs everyday. So, when I see a "heavy", pudgy, or overweight dog it is immediately apparent. I judge condition of the dogs I work every day and will often tell handlers there dog needs to lose a pound or two or is simply fat. I have a critical eye and look at my dogs and others dogs objectively. Keeping and maintaining a dog at the correct weight is something that I believe is very important. 

You also do not need to be a "handler", trainer or dog show judge to learn how to tell if a dog is overweight, even by a pound or two. It was explained by several people in the other thread quite thoroughly. 

Oversized GSD's do not go by different rules for being in shape, lean or overweight. Because a GSD is 26, 28 or 30" inches at the shoulder does not make it ok to be 5, 10, 20 or 30 lbs overweight. Pudgy is not good on any sized GSD in my way of thinking, even more so on an oversized dog. 

I will apologize in advance if I have offended anyone. This post is meant in a general way and a general response to keeping a dog a few or more pounds overweight. I know for some this is like calling your kid ugly, sorry! I am not criticizing anyones dog, again the dog in the photo is a gorgeous dog. I will direct my comments to the kind, loving owners of GSD's and other breeds who think it is ok to have big, fat dogs. I'm sure your dogs are awesome, no offense to the heavy dogs in the world. :wink2: But, to the owners of heavy dogs, put them on a proper diet, get them some exercise and have fun with them. Stop all the milk bones and get out and walk them. Throwing a toy to a dog, praising a dog will be more appreciated than handing it cookies. Weight is not a measure of a dog's worth, ability, make it any better, or how much it loves you.


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## Chip18

Oh ... I go away for a few hours, I come back and "discover" that every GSD over 100 lbs is overweight??? That is news to "us???" 

Last I checked ... there were no "size or weight restrictions" for "Family Pets???" And clearly Size and Weight is hardly the only factor in determining a dog's "life span." Sadly many of us "Boxers" owners, with slim and lean dogs find out that 9 to 10 years if we are lucky ... is pretty much the norm. 

But you know your "fat" GSD is gonna die young, is always the go to argument ... against "our" dogs but whatever. My OS WL GSD (as it happened) ... has already put a lie to the "100 lb's" die young "myth" but whatever. 

And he did balloon up to 121, at one point many years and I freaked ... more exercise and a handful of kibble in the morning and one meal a day and back down to 112 ... we're good with that weight. His job is being a "family pet" and that job has no size requirements ... last I checked.


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## Leon big boy

This is my little boy Leon, 5 months and 3 weeks, 72 lbs 23 in.
I think will go over 100 lbs, dont tou think so? It seems overweighted for you?
Sheers.


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## Dracovich

I am speaking in dimensions not weight. If a 100 lb dog were within breed standard for dimensions and was meant to be in breed standard completely, it would be pudgy at 100 lbs.

Point being that if a GSD is taller or longer or wider than the breed standard, it should weigh more too.


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## Dotbat215

Chip18 said:


> (
> 
> But you know your "fat" GSD is gonna die young, is always the go to argument ... against "our" dogs but whatever. My OS WL GSD (as it happened) ... has already put a lie to the "100 lb's" die young "myth" but whatever.
> .


*Shrug* My grandmom smokes like a chimney, eats fried food and sugar, and loves whisky.... And she's 86 and doesnt have heart disease or diabetes. That doesn't mean her lifestyle is healthy or should be emulated.

That said, it is important to know the dog's dimensions. However even if the gsd has a bigger frame I would err on the side of skinny.


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## Dracovich

Chip18 said:


> Oh ... I go away for a few hours, I come back and "discover" that every GSD over 100 lbs is overweight??? That is news to "us???"


Sounds similar to Draco's story, he got up to 132 Lbs then we got to work and he lost 25 lbs and counting. Fatshaming dogs shouldn't exist, especially when people take pot shots at a dog's appearance then compare your unworthy dog to their supposedly perfectly built masterpiece dog. There's a brags section so people can randomly post bragging pics and videos of their dog, but that's not good enough, it feels better when they insult someone else' dog in the process. Like we get it, we're going to **** because our dogs are too big


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## MineAreWorkingline

Dotbat215 said:


> *Shrug* My grandmom smokes like a chimney, eats fried food and sugar, and loves whisky.... And she's 86 and doesnt have heart disease or diabetes. That doesn't mean her lifestyle is healthy or should be emulated.
> 
> That said, it is important to know the dog's dimensions. However even if the gsd has a bigger frame I would err on the side of skinny.


I remember reading where Leerburg stated that he did not believe that a GSD could be within standard and weigh over one hundred pounds. He set out to prove his point and started amassing height/weight data and when he was through, his theory held water. 

For those who were stating that fat dogs were fine as pets and the standard had no bearing on "pet" dogs, I say BS. The most important job most GSDs will ever have is being a good pet in the right household. So yeah, all those bred to the standard "family pets" do have weight and height restrictions and should adhere to the breed standard in conformation and behavior.


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## Chip18

Dracovich said:


> I am speaking in dimensions not weight. If a 100 lb dog were within breed standard for dimensions and was meant to be in breed standard completely, it would be pudgy at 100 lbs.
> 
> Point being that if a GSD is taller or longer or wider than the breed standard, it should weigh more too.


I can safely say having seen the "spec" WL DDD that nipped Rocky in our night time adventure ... "Rocky is much much taller." But I've never measured him.


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## Dracovich

Who here is claiming that a GSD can be within the breed standard of dimensions and be over 100 Lbs healthy. What's your point? Just saying it to say it?

From what I have seen all of us with large GSDs are saying hey, our dogs are either taller, deeper or longer than the breed standard, that's why our dogs are heavy.


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## Chip18

Dracovich said:


> Sounds similar to Draco's story, he got up to 132 Lbs then we got to work and he lost 25 lbs and counting. Fatshaming dogs shouldn't exist, especially when people take pot shots at a dog's appearance then compare your unworthy dog to their supposedly perfectly built masterpiece dog. There's a brags section so people can randomly post bragging pics and videos of their dog, but that's not good enough, it feels better when they insult someone else' dog in the process. Like we get it, we're going to **** because our dogs are too big


Yep ... but you know ... I'll give ground in the actual "Working GSD" thing ... no way in heck would I could I lift or carry ... getting in out of difficult tight space with my guy ... to heavy and freakishly long! My Boxer at 65 lbs ... nice and compact! Kinda to goofy for a real working dog but that's beside the point. 

Rocky gets lots of questions (Wobblers and Size) when folks see him and I always say OS Wl GSD ... not the standard. I have no issue with to spec dogs.


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## Chip18

Crap it's just a bad news day for "Rocky!" Now it appears, I have to tell him ... he's to freaking tall also???? I suppose I'll break the news to him on one of our "Family Pet" nighttime light source, stick carrying walks. He'll like that.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Dracovich said:


> Who here is claiming that a GSD can be within the breed standard of dimensions and be over 100 Lbs healthy. What's your point? Just saying it to say it?
> 
> From what I have seen all of us with large GSDs are saying hey, our dogs are either taller, deeper or longer than the breed standard, that's why our dogs are heavy.


If this was directed at me, you are shooting the wrong messenger as it was Chip who stated it, seemingly to disparage pet GSDs that fall within the standard.


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## Slamdunc

Chip, how do you know your Rocky is a working line GSD? Can you post a pedigree, I genuinely would like to see it. 

I guess a few people just don't get it???


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## Slamdunc

Leon big boy said:


> This is my little boy Leon, 5 months and 3 weeks, 72 lbs 23 in.
> I think will go over 100 lbs, dont tou think so? It seems overweighted for you?
> Sheers.



Yup, I'd take a few pounds off of him if he were mine. He's a beautiful dog.


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## Slamdunc

Dracovich said:


> Who here is claiming that a GSD can be within the breed standard of dimensions and be over 100 Lbs healthy. What's your point? Just saying it to say it?
> 
> From what I have seen all of us with large GSDs are saying hey, our dogs are either taller, deeper or longer than the breed standard, that's why our dogs are heavy.


I'm sorry, but it is not about size and weight. It is about being overweight. A 100 lb large GSD can be lean if it is a tall, muscular dog with big bones. However, most GSDs at 100 lbs are not tall, lean and muscular. You've done an outstanding job of slimming your dog down. Kudos to you! In my opinion, your dog is still too heavy at 100 lbs. I'd have him closer to 90 or maybe 95lbs. I'm sorry, but that is my honest and blunt opinion. It has NOTHING to do with size, how tall your dog is is or how lanky it is. It has everything to do with body mass, lean muscle and how well toned your dog is. You can't say my dog is at an ideal weight if you can't see the ribs when it exerts itself, feel the ribs when you touch it or see well defined shoulder muscles. A GSD should show muscle tone and not just size. 

If this is not to your liking or what you think is "reasonable" for a GSD then we can agree to disagree. FWIW, I'm not a GSD "elitist" or snob. I've owned many diverse GSD's, ASL, White GSD, WGSL dogs and Czech / German WL dogs. I love all GSD's and want to see them healthy and happy. It's not about size, it's about understanding the appropriate weight for every individual dog.


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## Chip18

Slamdunc said:


> Chip, how do you know your Rocky is a working line GSD? Can you post a pedigree, I genuinely would like to see it.
> 
> I guess a few people just don't get it???


A reasonable question.

The obvious answer is he looks like a "WL GSD" not a SL or WG SL never seen either in "real life." But well ... as you know ... I did see two "WL GSD's" Black and Tan's ... under unfavorable circumstances. And one of them was a "MWD." Rocky looked just like them but of course bigger and Black. 

Beyond that "Breed Characteristic" the good and the bad! He should have gone to a "Working Home" I would think?? But hear not likely would have been "culled." But ... here he is but "Wobblers" so, you know ...he should be "easy enough??" 

According to what I read here ... he should be a genetic mess and a nerve bag??? But in his lifetime ... he's made to very good independent clear headed decisions over which I had no control. And both times ... I am glad he did! 

But where he came from ... I have no idea??? Most likely were it not for "Wobblers" I would not have him. He is the only "rescue" I've dealt with where they would not tell me "anything" about his background ... not even a city??? He's a mystery wrapped in an enigma?? 

It's too bad becasue, I would luv to have another just like him. And I was not a "GSD" guy ... but "Rocky" ... "family pet" and all ... has been very impressive. But I can't answer what I don't know???


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## Slamdunc

@Chip, so you are basing Rocky being a "working line" GSD by looks? I'm sure Rocky is a great dog and you sure have given him a great home. He is a lucky dog to have found you, no doubt about that. 

You should know that there are plenty of sable, bicolor, black and black and tan GSD's that are simply American bred dogs. Nothing wrong with that at all. But, one can not say a dog is a working line dog purely going by looks or even temperament. What determines is a dog is a WGSL, WGWL, Czech, or ASL is the lines and breeding behind the dog. A pedigree tells you this. I am into pedigrees and GSD's. I have been confused over your use of OSWL GSD as this is a peculiar description. It is a rather odd way to describe a GSD, but does fit in with these threads. When people discuss GSD's and describe them as WL, SL, WGWL, Czech, WGSL or ASL we know exactly what they are referring too. OS WL is really a different, non-traditional way to describe a dog.


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## Chip18

Slamdunc said:


> @Chip, so you are basing Rocky being a "working line" GSD by looks? I'm sure Rocky is a great dog and you sure have given him a great home. He is a lucky dog to have found you, no doubt about that.
> 
> You should know that there are plenty of sable, bicolor, black and black and tan GSD's that are simply American bred dogs. Nothing wrong with that at all. But, one can not say a dog is a working line dog purely going by looks or even temperament. What determines is a dog is a WGSL, WGWL, Czech, or ASL is the lines and breeding behind the dog. A pedigree tells you this. I am into pedigrees and GSD's. I have been confused over your use of OSWL GSD as this is a peculiar description. It is a rather odd way to describe a GSD, but does fit in with these threads. When people discuss GSD's and describe them as WL, SL, WGWL, Czech, WGSL or ASL we know exactly what they are referring too. OS WL is really a different, non-traditional way to describe a dog.


That's fair and yep I understand that now. But I can't answer questions on his background as I don't know??

His "actual" background is just one of life's mysteries?? I don't recommend GSD's to anyone in any case. And my guy is obviously over sized. As to my assessment based on looks ... well I've not seen a Zebra in real life either ..but I know what one looks like. 

But fear not ... if I tell JQP "OS WL GSD" and they are truly curious ... when they dig deeper ... apparently they won't find that in "Breed Description??" So they will have to dig deeper still ... thus in a way "we"... do well by the breed. In any case regardless of "what his background" is. He serves as a good example of the breed. Although ... he's still not crazy about people but he is civil. He does actually "like" ex Vet's for some reason?? I have no idea what that's about??


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## Dracovich

My message is directed at anyone. A GSD can be over 30 inches tall, so why hold those shepherds to the same standard as a 25 inch GSD? Basic logic, the bigger the frame the heavier the dog should be.


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## Chip18

MineAreWorkingline said:


> If this was directed at me, you are shooting the wrong messenger as it was *Chip who stated it, seemingly to disparage pet GSDs that fall within the standard.*


I said/did that??? 
So now ... I get credit/blame for things I did not say??? :surprise:


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## Dracovich

Uhhh..... We simply do not require our pets to be in the standard, especially those of us who rescue, it's of little concern to us what our pets look like and what elitists make of our pets.One could say your relentless comments on size are to disparage our dogs who are larger than breed standard. But really, what does it matter? Our dogs are pets, we are not breeding them.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Chip18 said:


> I said/did that???
> So now ... I get credit/blame for things I did not say??? :surprise:


Have no doubt you said it. "Last I checked ... there were no "size or weight restrictions" for "Family Pets???"", as if German Shepherds in pet homes should not meet the breed standard expectations.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8443905-post21.html

If the breed standard states to protect and guard, a pet home should expect a German Shepherd with some human aggression. If the standard calls for erect ears, a pet home should expect erect ears. If the breed standard calls for a dog that stands no more than 26" and weighs no more than 88#s, a family pet home should expect a German Shepherd that conforms to those standards with few, minor deviations. There is only one breed standard, and all German Shepherds should fall within a range of that one standard. A pet home deserves and should expect no less.


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## Dracovich

That simply is not the reality, some GSDs are bigger than your preference, and I don't feel our dogs are less worthy of loving homes and *PROUD* owners simply because they do not conform to your ideals.

So what is your argument? There are restrictions on family pets? That's a joke!


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## MineAreWorkingline

Dracovich said:


> That simply is not the reality, some GSDs are bigger than your preference, and I don't feel our dogs are less worthy of loving homes and *PROUD* owners simply because they do not conform to your ideals.
> 
> So what is your argument? There are restrictions on family pets? That's a joke!


My preference? Thank you, but I had no hand in creating the breed or its standard. 

You don't know what my preference is because I have not stated it.

Nobody said over sized German Shepherds are less worthy of loving homes because they don't conform to Max von Stephanitz's breed standard. 

I never stated anything about my ideals, why are you stirring up controversy by making false accusations? I didn't even remotely say any of those things.


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## Dracovich

Like your false accusation that Chip was implying pets in breed standard are worthless? Nice try, but we still like our big dogs.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Dracovich said:


> Like your false accusation that Chip was implying pets in breed standard are worthless? Nice try, but we still like our big dogs.


You have no comprehension, do you? 

Chip was implying well bred dogs were worthless if a family only wanted a German Shepherd for a companion and a pet. 

Nice try but I don't care what you or Chip likes.


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## Chip18

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ... there were no "size or weight restrictions" for "Family Pets???""


LOL ... Ok then ... I did not know GSD's "only" had a lock on the term *"Family Pet's"* ... for me dogs of Molosser World are also *"Family Pets"*:
















and no size or weight restrictions, where I live??? I can have the largest dog I want ... without any "size or weight requirements." I had no idea "Family Pet" was a specific "breed restricted" term???But you know I was a "Bully" guy first ... so my scope is wide. :smile2:


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## MineAreWorkingline

I did not know that when people were discussing over sized German Shepherds as family pets on a German Shepherd forum that Molosser breeds were automatically included.


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## Leon big boy

Hi folks, um note so sure Leon os overweighted yet. I always take him to do some exercise and control his food.
Here are some other pictures.


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## KaiserAus

Ag Leon is gorgeous. It can be hard to tell cos he's quite fluffy.

Do you have a pic from directly above?


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## Slamdunc

Wow, there are those that really just don't get it. This is about keeping your pet healthy, is it that hard to comprehend? 

I can't possibly explain it any other way, it's not about height it's about weight and body mass. Obviously taller dogs can weigh more, it's about dogs being at the proper weight for their size and frame. Because your dog is "big" or "tall" is not an excuse to let it get overweight. It is even more of an important reason to keep a GSD or other dog lean. It's also about not stroking your ego by saying "my dog weighs XXX, yours only weighs yy. Boy, yours is so small." It seems some folks get some joy out of having an "oversized" dog, which is usually translated to mean "overweight." I've been into GSD's for a long time and am always amazed when people ask what my dog weighs and then tell me about their 120 lb GSD. Americans are really hung up on size for some reason? 

Myself and others have discussed the health benefits to trimmer dogs. No one has insulted any dogs, the dogs are not to blame for what their owners do to them. It is clearly not the dog's fault. We only have ourselves to blame and if you find any of my posts on this thread insulting or hit close to home, then you probably have an overweight dog and need better management practices.  Your dog will thank you for it.


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## Chip18

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You have no comprehension, do you?
> 
> Chip was implying well bred dogs were worthless if a family only wanted a German Shepherd for a companion and a pet.
> 
> Nice try but I don't care what you or Chip likes.


LOL ... and now I've said/implied "worthless" also??? I must be having blackouts???? :laugh2:


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... and now I've said/implied "worthless" also??? I must be having blackouts???? :laugh2:


I do believe that it was Dracovich that introduced and implied the word "worthless", so if you want to take issue with the term, address the appropriate messenger.


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## Chip18

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I did not know that when people were discussing over sized German Shepherds as family pets on a German Shepherd forum that Molosser breeds were automatically included.


Well for "me" they are included as "Family Pets" also ... because dogs of that type were my first dogs. If I wanted to restrict my definition of "Family Pets" to GSD's *only *"I" would have stated such.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Let me repeat, the discussion was restricted to German Shepherds as "family pets" on a German Shepherd forum. Molossers had nothing to do with the topic of this thread or with German Shepherds as "family pets", regardless of whether they were your first pets. You don't get to chose what conversation other people opt to involve themselves in.


----------



## Chip18

Slamdunc said:


> Wow, there are those that really just don't get it. This is about keeping your pet healthy, is it that hard to comprehend?
> 
> I can't possibly explain it any other way, it's not about height it's about weight and body mass. Obviously taller dogs can weigh more, it's about dogs being at the proper weight for their size and frame. Because your dog is "big" or "tall" is not an excuse to let it get overweight. It is even more of an important reason to keep a GSD or other dog lean. It's also about not stroking your ego by saying "my dog weighs XXX, yours only weighs yy. Boy, yours is so small." It seems some folks get some joy out of having an "oversized" dog, which is usually translated to mean "overweight." I've been into GSD's for a long time and am always amazed when people ask what my dog weighs and then tell me about their 120 lb GSD. Americans are really hung up on size for some reason?
> 
> Myself and others have discussed the health benefits to trimmer dogs. No one has insulted any dogs, the dogs are not to blame for what their owners do to them. It is clearly not the dog's fault. We only have ourselves to blame and if you find any of my posts on this thread insulting or hit close to home, then you probably have an overweight dog and need better management practices.  Your dog will thank you for it.


Well ... I'll let your ... "assumption" that all of us that have Over Sized GSD's ... brag about there size slide. 

And in an effort to try and salvage something out of this ... mess. Ask a rare (for me question.) Hmm ... not sure how much longer I can use that line ... but I don't ask many. 

I know what a dog's body is suppose to look like. The dogs that I favor ... also have short hair and they did not come any slimmer and leaner than my "boxer female" 65 lbs at maturity. 

But "Rocky" is covered with fur, his chest is deep and he has a waist, and he is ... taller and wider than spec ... he is not a 85 lb'er in any fashion. So how am I supposed to "know" what he should weight???


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## Sabis mom

I could care less what anyones dog weighs. Or how tall it is.
But I can tell you this. Sabi battled weight most of her life. She was a moose of a female standing about 26" and weighing in at 82lbs in working trim. She lost on speed to smaller dogs but she was still faster then the average human and she hit like a truck. 
The last four months of her life I threw the diet out the window. I kept her weight down and denied her treats for 12.5 years. Once she hit the falling over phase of DM I decided I wanted her happy. I had lost her anyway right? 
Bud was never bred in part because he was oversized. He was 95lbs most of his life and because he was so big I kept him rail thin and did a ton of flatwork with him. Jogged miles to keep him fit and in condition at a trot. Not much crazy racing and leaping for him. He could easily have gone well over 100lbs. I kept him lean to the point that JQP was fond of accusing me of starving him. I got to keep him to the ripe old age of 14 and never lame or sore a day. 
If asked today if I would choose another large GSD my answer would be no. Would I turn one away? Of course not. But would I choose one? No.
Sabi was a working dog. Ever carried an 85lb dog?
Many of Buds standard sized relatives had lived to 15 or even 17. I lost him at 14.


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## Chip18

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You don't get to chose what conversation other people opt to involve themselves in.


And ... you don't get to chose/restrict the meaning of "Family Pet."


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## MineAreWorkingline

Chip18 said:


> And ... you don't get to chose/restrict the meaning of "Family Pet."


No where did I do such a thing. 

I just did not drag in turtles, rabbits, cats, birds, reptiles, fish, horses or any other "family pet" into a thread about over sized or over weight German Shepherds on a German Shepherd forum as you suddenly did with Molossers as if it were understood that any animal that is kept as a "family pet" was the current topic of discussion.


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## Chip18

Sabis mom said:


> The last four months of her life I threw the diet out the window. I kept her weight down and denied her treats for 12.5 years. Once she hit the falling over phase of DM I decided I wanted her happy. I had lost her anyway right?


I did not know you lost her to DM. It claimed my Struddell at 8.5 and we had to end the fight at age 10 ...just barely made that mile stone .. pretty good for a "Boxer" ... I suppose. You have my deepest sympathies.


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## Chip18

Sabis mom said:


> Bud was never bred in part because he was oversized. He was 95lbs most of his life and because he was so big I kept him rail thin and did a ton of flatwork with him. Jogged miles to keep him fit and in condition at a trot. Not much crazy racing and leaping for him. He could easily have gone well over 100lbs. I kept him lean to the point that JQP was fond of accusing me of starving him. I got to keep him to the ripe old age of 14 and never lame or sore a day.
> If asked today if I would choose another large GSD my answer would be no. Would I turn one away? Of course not. But would I choose one? No.
> Sabi was a working dog. Ever carried an 85lb dog?
> Many of Buds standard sized relatives had lived to 15 or even 17. I lost him at 14.


Ironically enough ... no one seems to be in dispute over the how's and why's of the GSD's breed standard??? 

But our dog's automatically being assumed to be ... hmm I see now, "Fat" yeah that kinda sort ticks some of us off.


----------



## Sabis mom

Chip18 said:


> Ironically enough ... no one seems to be in dispute over the how's and why's of the GSD's breed standard???
> 
> But our dog's automatically being assumed to be ... hmm I see now, "Fat" yeah that kinda sort ticks some of us off.


I think its because so many of the "over 100" brags we see are yes somewhat large but fat. 

You asked about Rockys weight. I kept Bud lean to the point were ribs were visible. Through his coat. Much like humans a dogs system copes easier with moderate underweight then moderate overweight.
Whatever weight he is there with good muscle tone is ideal:smile2:


----------



## Chip18

Sabis mom said:


> I think its because so many of the "over 100" brags we see are yes somewhat large but fat.
> 
> You asked about Rockys weight. I kept Bud lean to the point were ribs were visible. Through his coat. Much like humans a dogs system copes easier with moderate underweight then moderate overweight.
> Whatever weight he is there with good muscle tone is ideal:smile2:


Hard numbers work better for me but I understand. I'll see where he is at his next weigh in ... thanks.


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## Castlemaid

I moved the thread to General Information as it was never meant to be a brag. 

Also a reminder that the Bickering rule is being enforced:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/administrator-messages/558506-personal-bickering.html


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## Castlemaid

Slamdunc said:


> @Chip, so you are basing Rocky being a "working line" GSD by looks? I'm sure Rocky is a great dog and you sure have given him a great home. He is a lucky dog to have found you, no doubt about that.
> 
> You should know that there are plenty of sable, bicolor, black and black and tan GSD's that are simply American bred dogs. Nothing wrong with that at all. But, one can not say a dog is a working line dog purely going by looks or even temperament. What determines is a dog is a WGSL, WGWL, Czech, or ASL is the lines and breeding behind the dog. A pedigree tells you this. I am into pedigrees and GSD's. I have been confused over your use of OSWL GSD as this is a peculiar description. It is a rather odd way to describe a GSD, but does fit in with these threads. When people discuss GSD's and describe them as WL, SL, WGWL, Czech, WGSL or ASL we know exactly what they are referring too. OS WL is really a different, non-traditional way to describe a dog.


I agree with this - just looking at Chip's avatar, Rocky does not look working line to me. More pictures would help. But I have seen many nice looking sables on the forum that were from pet-breedings with absolutely no working line in them for many, many generations, so going off looks alone is just guessing.


----------



## dz0qp5

My boy is around 98 lbs. He is about 28" and very solid. He has a huge head, and has huge bone structure. Some of the show lines seem to be a little larger.


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## Leon big boy

Folk, I have this picture from above were Leon is with my female Lady, born at same day (not brothers), 45 lbs, 21.6 in
Here you cay say if it is overweigthed?


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## selzer

Leon, I don't think your puppy is over-weight. But that doesn't me he will be over-sized, he may be when he is full grown. Actually, I hope he is, because otherwise, his rapid growth rate could be a pre-curser to health problems to come. 

Puppies grow and develop at different rates. I had a dog that was fully grown and fully filled out by 10 months old. Unfortunately he had hip dysplasia. It seems that the dogs the grow rapidly sometimes are afflicted. 

Also the biggest pup at 8 weeks may not be the biggest pup at 2 years. 

I am wondering what you are feeding him, and if you are supplementing it with anything.


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## Slamdunc

Chip18 said:


> Well ... I'll let your ... "assumption" that all of us that have Over Sized GSD's ... brag about there size slide.
> 
> And in an effort to try and salvage something out of this ... mess. Ask a rare (for me question.) Hmm ... not sure how much longer I can use that line ... but I don't ask many.
> 
> I know what a dog's body is suppose to look like. The dogs that I favor ... also have short hair and they did not come any slimmer and leaner than my "boxer female" 65 lbs at maturity.
> 
> But "Rocky" is covered with fur, his chest is deep and he has a waist, and he is ... taller and wider than spec ... he is not a 85 lb'er in any fashion. So how am I supposed to "know" what he should weight???


Chip, there have been several posters, including myself that have described the ways to tell if a GSD is lean or overweight. On the other thread there was a pretty good chart posted that explains what dogs look like at varying weights. From emaciated to obese. First off, it is not about how tall a dog is that is the issue. Naturally, taller dogs can weigh more, but that doesn't mean they are fit. when talking about the breed standard, it is a guide line and one that denotes what a GSD should be, how it should look, act and behave. The breed standard will describe how a GSD should look and being overweight, fat or obese is certainly not in the standard. So, even the dogs that are taller than the standard should not be overweight. Having a large dog is not an excuse for letting the dog get "fat", heavy, obese or overweight. 

To answer your question, here is how I judge if a dog is fit, fat or in shape. First, I look at the dog and assess it's overall physical condition, this goes for large GSD's, over sized GSD's or average sized GSD's. Then I look at the waist line from above the dog. I want to see a distinct waist. I look at the ribs, I like to see the last two ribs when the dog is standing and not exerting itself. I like to be able to see all the ribs when a dog is exerting itself, running, working or breathing hard. When doing detection work I want to be able to see a dog's rib cage move as it's respiration goes from 30 breaths per minute to around 100 - 150 ppm. I want to be able to see all the ribs when the dog is exerting itself. I will also run my fingers down a dog's side and feel each rib. I want to feel each rib and feel them distinctly. I want my fingers to bump along each rib as I run my fingers down the dog's side. If the ribs are covered by a layer of skin or fat and are not clearly defined then the dog needs to lose weight. Long hair or plush coats do not make a difference with this. I look at the shoulders and I want to see well defined shoulder muscles, a shoulder where the muscles are clearly defined. 

IMO, size is not a factor in whether a dog is in shape, out of shape, lean or overweight. These general rules apply to any size GSD. I hope that helps to clear up any confusion. I am critical of owners, or even handlers with overweight dogs, because it is not fair to the dog. Especially, larger dogs that really need to be kept lean to be healthy. If a handler shows up to our training with a heavy dog, even by 2-3 pounds, I will quickly and directly point it out to them. I will find out the issue of why the dog is becoming overweight and we will address it.


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## Chip18

Castlemaid said:


> I agree with this - just looking at Chip's avatar, Rocky does not look working line to me. More pictures would help. But I have seen many nice looking sables on the forum that were from pet-breedings with absolutely no working line in them for many, many generations, so going off looks alone is just guessing.


Oh well as a pet person and member of "JQP" I will reserve my right to label him as I do. 

But I acknowledge you and Slams point ... kinda disappointing, on account of sounds like finding another "just like him would be difficult." So I suppose when the time comes ... I'll have to settle for a "known WL GSD" unaccount of now I know ... or maybe a MAl/GSD cross... gonna get a Boxer first however.


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## Chip18

Slamdunc said:


> Chip, there have been several posters, including myself that have described the ways to tell if a GSD is lean or overweight. On the other thread there was a pretty good chart posted that explains what dogs look like at varying weights. From emaciated to obese.


 I did see those ... but I was still in "not my problem mode. 



Slamdunc said:


> First off, it is not about how tall a dog is that is the issue. Naturally, taller dogs can weigh more, but that doesn't mean they are fit. when talking about the breed standard, it is a guide line and one that denotes what a GSD should be, how it should look, act and behave. The breed standard will describe how a GSD should look and being overweight, fat or obese is certainly not in the standard. So, even the dogs that are taller than the standard should not be overweight. Having a large dog is not an excuse for letting the dog get "fat", heavy, obese or overweight.


 Sigh ... yeah ... I concede your point! 

Even in full on "tool" mode I ... can still recognize valid, solid information when I see it! That is actually what I do ... I consider my role as being a self appointed "crap filter" for "JQP." So even in the midst of full on "Boxer" crazy ... I can be like ... "Oh ... what was that??? 



Slamdunc said:


> To answer your question, here is how I judge if a dog is fit, fat or in shape. First, I look at the dog and assess it's overall physical condition, this goes for large GSD's, over sized GSD's or average sized GSD's. Then I look at the waist line from above the dog. I want to see a distinct waist. I look at the ribs, I like to see the last two ribs when the dog is standing and not exerting itself. I like to be able to see all the ribs when a dog is exerting itself, running, working or breathing hard. When doing detection work I want to be able to see a dog's rib cage move as it's respiration goes from 30 breaths per minute to around 100 - 150 ppm. I want to be able to see all the ribs when the dog is exerting itself. I will also run my fingers down a dog's side and feel each rib. I want to feel each rib and feel them distinctly. I want my fingers to bump along each rib as I run my fingers down the dog's side. If the ribs are covered by a layer of skin or fat and are not clearly defined then the dog needs to lose weight. Long hair or plush coats do not make a difference with this. I look at the shoulders and I want to see well defined shoulder muscles, a shoulder where the muscles are clearly defined.
> 
> IMO, size is not a factor in whether a dog is in shape, out of shape, lean or overweight. These general rules apply to any size GSD. I hope that helps to clear up any confusion. I am critical of owners, or even handlers with overweight dogs, because it is not fair to the dog. Especially, larger dogs that really need to be kept lean to be healthy. If a handler shows up to our training with a heavy dog, even by 2-3 pounds, I will quickly and directly point it out to them. I will find out the issue of why the dog is becoming overweight and we will address it.


 Without going into ... yet again another long diatribe ... I will simply say ... Thank You!

I got more .. but for once ... I'm going strain really, really, hard and be simple clear and to the point.


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## selzer

Slamdunc, all those charts are for adult GSDs. I know it is not good to have a puppy be fat, but puppies do look different than adult dogs, and I wouldn't want them to have all the tucks and ribs visible, like you do with an adult.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Slamdunc said:


> To answer your question, here is how I judge if a dog is fit, fat or in shape. First, I look at the dog and assess it's overall physical condition, this goes for large GSD's, over sized GSD's or average sized GSD's. Then I look at the waist line from above the dog. I want to see a distinct waist. I look at the ribs, I like to see the last two ribs when the dog is standing and not exerting itself. I like to be able to see all the ribs when a dog is exerting itself, running, working or breathing hard. When doing detection work I want to be able to see a dog's rib cage move as it's respiration goes from 30 breaths per minute to around 100 - 150 ppm. I want to be able to see all the ribs when the dog is exerting itself. I will also run my fingers down a dog's side and feel each rib. I want to feel each rib and feel them distinctly. I want my fingers to bump along each rib as I run my fingers down the dog's side. If the ribs are covered by a layer of skin or fat and are not clearly defined then the dog needs to lose weight. *Long hair or plush coats do not make a difference with this.*


One minor quibble with the part of your post that I bolded: While a longcoat should meet your test _by feel_, it may not meet your test _by looks_. 

Both my dogs are coaties, but Halo's coat is shorter, thicker, and denser than Keef's. His longer fur lays flatter to his body, with a sleeker feel, hers puffs out and is very soft. She can look chunky when dry, but when I hose her down there's a bony little body underneath all that fluffy fur, lol. There is no way you'll ever see ribs when she's dry. She has a tuck up at the abdomen when viewed from the side, but due to her fur, you can't see a waist unless she's wet, which is why I have to rely both on feel, and also weight. I do a rib check on both dogs frequently, adjusting their food as necessary, and I know what's a good weight range to keep them in optimal condition. Keef is 11-1/2 and has lost muscle mass as he's aged, so he's usually 5 or 6 pounds less than when he was in his prime. Any less than that and I'll up his food a bit. Halo is in perfect condition when she's no less than 53 pounds and no more than 56 - preferably 54/55.


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## Slamdunc

@Chip :thumbup:
@selzer, you are correct. 

I was talking about adult dogs in my post and not puppies. Although, I keep my puppies lean, but I evaluate them daily and adjust their feedings as necessary. Since I feed raw, I am usually adjusting diets to put weight on. Thank you for pointing that out. 

@Cassidy's Mom, you are also correct in that it is harder to gauge weight on a long coat dog by visible inspection. I should have been clearer with the last part of my post.

*I want my fingers to bump along each rib as I run my fingers down the dog's side. If the ribs are covered by a layer of skin or fat and are not clearly defined then the dog needs to lose weight. Long hair or plush coats do not make a difference with this.*

What I was trying to say that is even with a long coat or plush coat dog you can still feel the ribs. There is no difference when you run your fingers down the side of a coated dog to feel each rib. IME, the coat will not effect this type of diagnostic assessment. I hope that clears up the confusion. Thank you for pointing that out, I hope I didn't muddy the waters for anyone. :wink2:


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## Cassidy's Mom

Slamdunc said:


> What I was trying to say that is even with a long coat or plush coat dog you can still feel the ribs. There is no difference when you run your fingers down the side of a coated dog to feel each rib. IME, the coat will not effect this type of diagnostic assessment. I hope that clears up the confusion. Thank you for pointing that out, I hope I didn't muddy the waters for anyone. :wink2:


:thumbup: No prob, just wanted to clarify that based on my personal experience with the fluffiest of fluffies! My flyball teammates have commented about it several times - not that Halo looks fat, but how much less dog there is under that thick coat than it appears. It even shocks me sometimes.


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## Nigel

Cassidy's Mom said:


> :thumbup: No prob, just wanted to clarify that based on my personal experience with the fluffiest of fluffies! My flyball teammates have commented about it several times - not that Halo looks fat, but how much less dog there is under that thick coat than it appears. It even shocks me sometimes.


Yup, both our coaties look larger than they are. Our WL coatie has a more "bushy" coat than our wgsl, but both look completely different when wet


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## cherub737

I do think it is important to attempt to breed for the standard and maintain the work ethic of the GSD...these dogs scaling the wall / A Frame, taking the dumbbell over the jumps, being lifted on the sleeve in protection etc. put tremendous strain on their spine and body overall. Same for the S&R dogs who also have to be lifted and carried and passed to another  Herding dogs going hours in the field and jumping. So I think the dialogue re the breed standard is very important. My last boy was 95 lbs. and just squeezed in re the height standard and I was always worried for his back during training or when he was with the helper. They take tremendous abuse in the IPO sport and well as real deployment dogs. There is never a guarantee but I think valid to look at the original design of these dogs. 

That being said, I just have to say the dog is really lovely to look at...very handsome dog with a beautiful head...as are the other dogs of the folks who posted.


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## Sabis mom

cherub737 said:


> I do think it is important to attempt to breed for the standard and maintain the work ethic of the GSD...these dogs scaling the wall / A Frame, taking the dumbbell over the jumps, being lifted on the sleeve in protection etc. put tremendous strain on their spine and body overall. Same for the S&R dogs who also have to be lifted and carried and passed to another  Herding dogs going hours in the field and jumping. So I think the dialogue re the breed standard is very important. My last boy was 95 lbs. and just squeezed in re the height standard and I was always worried for his back during training or when he was with the helper. They take tremendous abuse in the IPO sport and well as real deployment dogs. There is never a guarantee but I think valid to look at the original design of these dogs.
> 
> That being said, I just have to say the dog is really lovely to look at...very handsome dog with a beautiful head...as are the other dogs of the folks who posted.


I can tell you that the handlers don't much like having to lift and carry large dogs either. It isn't just the dogs that suffer:laugh2:


----------



## Leon big boy

*Care*



selzer said:


> Leon, I don't think your puppy is over-weight. But that doesn't me he will be over-sized, he may be when he is full grown. Actually, I hope he is, because otherwise, his rapid growth rate could be a pre-curser to health problems to come.
> 
> Puppies grow and develop at different rates. I had a dog that was fully grown and fully filled out by 10 months old. Unfortunately he had hip dysplasia. It seems that the dogs the grow rapidly sometimes are afflicted.
> 
> Also the biggest pup at 8 weeks may not be the biggest pup at 2 years.
> 
> I am wondering what you are feeding him, and if you are supplementing it with anything.


Thanks for the answer selzer. Well i do his food my self usually Chicken with Corn meal and also give chondroitin supplement to help prevent dysplasia, such as artrin. I also take the dogs to do exercises daily and check the rear articulations with flexion, extension, abduction and rotation of the hind legs to see if they feel any pain or discomfort. I try to take care of the best I can.


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## Galathiel

You need to really look at his diet. It doesn't seem at all balanced.


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## Chip18

Slamdunc said:


> What I was trying to say that is even with a long coat or plush coat dog you can still feel the ribs. There is no difference when you run your fingers down the side of a coated dog to feel each rib. IME, the coat will not affect this type of diagnostic assessment. I hope that clears up the confusion. Thank you for pointing that out, I hope I didn't muddy the waters for anyone. :wink2:


Clarification ... never hurts, but I got what you explained out the gate. 

I'd like to see the original chart if anyone has it handy?? But it did not work for me ... most likely becasue I had a Boxer. It's likely sighthound owners would also find it of little value. I mean come on who can't recognize a fat Boxer or Greyhound?? 

Moving on, I'll have to double check the view from above, pretty sure he passes that one and the view from the side is what I expected it to be on Rocky. But when I did, the feel the ribs thing ... that was different and unexpected??? I think is carry a few extra pounds??? 

But bottomline ... it's not about the dog's height. Thanks yet again for the insight. And it's like I always say ... you can learn something new everyday ... unless your careful.


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## Slamdunc

Leon big boy said:


> Thanks for the answer selzer. Well i do his food my self usually Chicken with Corn meal and also give chondroitin supplement to help prevent dysplasia, such as artrin. I also take the dogs to do exercises daily and check the rear articulations with flexion, extension, abduction and rotation of the hind legs to see if they feel any pain or discomfort. I try to take care of the best I can.


I agree with @Galathiel. This diet on it's own is not very well balanced. What else do you feed. Why the corn meal? 

Another poster mentioned feeding Chicken thighs and leg quarters, chicken on it's own is not balanced, you also need organ meat amongst other things.


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## Leon big boy

OK my friends. I give them usually chicken gizzard too and carrots.

More 2 pics If my Babies.


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## kimbale

I'd recommend mixing in some different protein sources as well as other organs for a much more well balanced diet.

I feed turkey necks, bison hearts, pork liver, ground turkey, full rabbits, chicken gizards, chicken feet, beef heart, chicken legs, duck feet, beef bones, pork ribs and probably other stuff that I'm not remembering. You want to make sure their diets are varied. Also add in some fish oils if they aren't eating fish since that has essential nutrients. For fish meat you can try sardines, cod, tilapia but I'd stay away from salmon.

Beautiful dogs, by the way!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Leon big boy

This is an example of food for one day for them.
Chicken legs, corn meall and Rice.Usually I give them too liver of chicken or cow too, carrots, potatos, eggshell, etc.

Here in Brazil i dont have so much easy and cheap options as you in usa, of course. :smile2:


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## selzer

Your dogs are beautiful. 

I agree with really checking into the diet thing. Corn will put weight on a dog, but is pretty much empty calories, as dogs need animal protein, and corn is tougher to digest and more likely to cause allergic reactions. Brown rice would be a better filler. For hip-health, I would find a good source of vitamin C that dogs can absorb. 

Eggs are like the perfect food for dogs, good for the coat, animal protein, etc. 

If you are feeding raw, the bones provide excellent minerals, etc, as well as balanced calcium and phosphorus. If you are cooking the meat, then you cannot give the bones and these will need to be subsidized very carefully. 

A good way to subsidize calcium is to dry out egg shells and grind them and put them in the food. But then you need the phosphorous, and the ratio has to be correct. For this reason, I don't do home-made I just am not a nutritionist, and I don't want my critters to lack because I didn't know something. I give them left overs, and occasionally a raw chicken leg quarter, or a gizzard bag, but the bulk of their diet is supposed to be 100% balanced for dogs.


----------



## Chip18

Leon big boy said:


> This is an example of food for one day for them.
> Chicken legs, corn meall and Rice.Usually I give them too liver of chicken or cow too, carrots, potatos, eggshell, etc.
> 
> Here in Brazil i dont have so much easy and cheap options as you in usa, of course. :smile2:


Of course you can only use what you have available locally. But perhaps you can utilize what you have available better?? I use rice also but I limit it to a quarter cup at most for one meal. No reason really other than it's what I do. >

But ... Rice and Corn Meal are full of carbohydrates and AFAIK ... dogs don't need carbohydrates???


----------



## Leon big boy

Beatiful are this pics when they were 5 weeks old!

I Just can't imagine how will be their puppies next year, :smile2:


----------



## selzer

Leon big boy said:


> Beatiful are this pics when they were 5 weeks old!
> 
> I Just can't imagine how will be their puppies next year, :smile2:


There is nothing more fun and fascinating that watching two puppies playing together. 

And yet, you probably know that most people would not attempt what your are doing. Though I think you said these two aren't littermates, being together from as young as they are, they can have the same problems people have when they raise littermates together. 

If you haven't already, you might want to look up litter-mate syndrome, and get some pointers on how to avoid the common pit falls. 

I have raised littermates, and pups close in age. So, it can be done. I highly suggest you read through the information, before there are problems and avoid problems, rather than trying to fix them if they crop up. 

Good luck brave sir!


----------



## Leon big boy

Yes Selzer, they are not brothers, even born near each other. Besides they seem completely different in almost everything. Temper, weakness, etc.
Sometime i even surprise Thatcher the same breed can have dogs só distinct. You can have an Idea Just looking the pics.
I expect that they Will have a good diverse gen charge for their puppies.


----------



## Sandy Watkins

My Scout weighs 130 lbs and the vet assured me that it is a good weight for his frame. He's just a big 'ole boy!










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## np307

Sandy Watkins said:


> My Scout weighs 130 lbs and the vet assured me that it is a good weight for his frame. He's just a big 'ole boy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Fire your vet


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## Leon big boy

Leon 82 lbs, Lady 53 lbs. 8 months and onde week.


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## Nigel

They look great!


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## konathegsd

Sandy Watkins said:


> My Scout weighs 130 lbs and the vet assured me that it is a good weight for his frame. He's just a big 'ole boy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Do not take offense but your dog could lose some weight. Actually a lot of it. He is not just a big boy. I would try to drop him to 100 and see where he's at.
I'm proud to own a "extremely small" gsd even though the general public thinks my dog is abnormal.


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## Leon big boy

konathegsd said:


> Do not take offense but your dog could lose some weight. Actually a lot of it. He is not just a big boy. I would try to drop him to 100 and see where he's at.
> I'm proud to own a "extremely small" gsd even though the general public thinks my dog is abnormal.


I agree with you. Look att the Paws from my Leon, they seem Very similar from his dog and It has 50 lbs less. Im not concerned about their weight but healty of this dog and possible problems in Future.
If i Gave all the food Leon wants maybe It was Just pass 100 lbs but i prefer him Just thin as it is right now.

For me Leon's seem in good shape, what you guys Think?


----------



## konathegsd

Leon big boy said:


> konathegsd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do not take offense but your dog could lose some weight. Actually a lot of it. He is not just a big boy. I would try to drop him to 100 and see where he's at.
> I'm proud to own a "extremely small" gsd even though the general public thinks my dog is abnormal.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you. Look att the Paws from my Leon, they seem Very similar from his dog and It has 50 lbs less. Im not concerned about their weight but healty of this dog and possible problems in Future.
> If i Gave all the food Leon wants maybe It was Just pass 100 lbs but i prefer him Just thin as it is right now.
> 
> For me Leon's seem in good shape, what you guys Think?
Click to expand...

Leon looks good, although personally I like my dogs leaner. Can you get good quality kibble there?
My dog is 11 months, she has a small frame though so more weight would just look fat in my opinion.


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## Leon big boy

konathegsd said:


> Leon looks good, although personally I like my dogs leaner. Can you get good quality kibble there?
> My dog is 11 months, she has a small frame though so more weight would just look fat in my opinion.


Beatiful your dog. Dogs are diffetent in strucutre too Just like people. The most important is healty, of course.

She seems to be Very fast. Tall and Long legs and 
Very thin too. Beatiful.


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## selzer

Leon big boy said:


> Beatiful your dog. Dogs are diffetent in strucutre too Just like people. The most important is healty, of course.
> 
> She seems to be Very fast. Tall and Long legs and
> Very thin too. Beatiful.


Your dogs look good at the weight they are. All dogs grow differently, so your dog may seem a little heavier at eight months and at 12 months he may be skinny as a rail, and then at three he may look ideal. I don't mind having a pup with a little extra weight on him. Not a lot. 

Konathegsd's dog is too thin. I have one at a little older than that is thin too. Sometimes it is hard to get some weight on them. And yes, the 130 pound dog could lose at least 20, maybe 30 pounds and still look solid. I have a couple of dogs that I am struggling to take weight off of. But they are old, old ladies, who were not over-weight at all as adults or young adults. Now that they are seniors, they are heavier. 

One should evaluate the dog in front of them. The dog should have a waist line, if viewed from the side or the top. A rib or two is ok to see, but not a rack of ribs, and not hip bones. If you run your hands down the sides, you should be able to feel the ribs, But you should not see bones of the spinal column. 

Sometimes weight is a dance. We feed more when they seem wanting, and then they get a loose stool and lose more weight. Back off of the food, stuff gets a little more solid but the weight loss seems to stay. And then you have the dogs that won't eat their food. Cujo! Eat darn it!!!! I don't want to throw that away again!!! 

I used to think that losing weight was the toughest and skinny folks would say, it's hard to gain weight, and I would scoff inwardly. I got to say, putting weight on obstinate GSDs is got to be the worst.


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## konathegsd

selzer said:


> Leon big boy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beatiful your dog. Dogs are diffetent in strucutre too Just like people. The most important is healty, of course.
> 
> She seems to be Very fast. Tall and Long legs and
> Very thin too. Beatiful.
> 
> 
> 
> Your dogs look good at the weight they are. All dogs grow differently, so your dog may seem a little heavier at eight months and at 12 months he may be skinny as a rail, and then at three he may look ideal. I don't mind having a pup with a little extra weight on him. Not a lot.
> 
> Konathegsd's dog is too thin. I have one at a little older than that is thin too. Sometimes it is hard to get some weight on them. And yes, the 130 pound dog could lose at least 20, maybe 30 pounds and still look solid. I have a couple of dogs that I am struggling to take weight off of. But they are old, old ladies, who were not over-weight at all as adults or young adults. Now that they are seniors, they are heavier.
> 
> One should evaluate the dog in front of them. The dog should have a waist line, if viewed from the side or the top. A rib or two is ok to see, but not a rack of ribs, and not hip bones. If you run your hands down the sides, you should be able to feel the ribs, But you should not see bones of the spinal column.
> 
> Sometimes weight is a dance. We feed more when they seem wanting, and then they get a loose stool and lose more weight. Back off of the food, stuff gets a little more solid but the weight loss seems to stay. And then you have the dogs that won't eat their food. Cujo! Eat darn it!!!! I don't want to throw that away again!!!
> 
> I used to think that losing weight was the toughest and skinny folks would say, it's hard to gain weight, and I would scoff inwardly. I got to say, putting weight on obstinate GSDs is got to be the worst.
Click to expand...

she has gained a few pounds! We are getting there. We are so active that it's a slow process. She absolutely loves the satin balls and her coat has improved a ton since giving them to her. She's just shy of 60 pounds now.


----------



## Hineni7

My SAR girl is a solid, lean 90lbs and super athletic. Breeder beds to standard and for a multidisciplinary dog but my girl must have had some Amazon Princess in her, she ended up being the largest of the liter, lol... Because of her work and athleticism I don't mind the size, however, I would sure as heck hate to have to haul her out for any reason... 

There has been some great advice on here and some beautiful dogs posted..


----------



## Leon big boy

Leon and Lady as 2 months and now, 8 months


----------



## kimbale

konathegsd said:


> she has gained a few pounds! We are getting there. We are so active that it's a slow process. She absolutely loves the satin balls and her coat has improved a ton since giving them to her. She's just shy of 60 pounds now.


I had the same problem with my girl. She's now 9 years old and a healthy 60/65lbs, but when she was younger it was so hard to keep weight on her. She was my marathon training partner, and with how active we were I was always struggling to keep weight on. I started supplementing her diet with raw as well as canned food, and that helped a lot.


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## selzer

konathegsd said:


> she has gained a few pounds! We are getting there. We are so active that it's a slow process. She absolutely loves the satin balls and her coat has improved a ton since giving them to her. She's just shy of 60 pounds now.


I am glad she is getting a little more weight on her. Slow and steady gain is best. 

My Werewolf (Quinn) is 52.5 pounds. I call her a tea-cup GSD, but she is 23 inches at the withers. She's just small. Looks good. Karma right now is sporting a few extra ribs than I like to see. So she gets a little more at each feeding. She's an adult, 4 years old. Sometimes it just takes a while for them to start holding the weight. 

Babsy was a 58 pound stick a dynamite at just under two. Now she weighs over 90 at almost 12. She's on a diet. And yes, hefting her onto the grooming table is a pain in the arse, and neck, and back. 

Milla, I had a heck of a time getting her to reach 50 pounds at 2. Now she is 70 pounds and looks awesome at almost 9. Her sister who was always a little heavier, like 56 pounds, is on a diet. I intend to weigh her today, if I can get my car back. 

Karma, Ramona, Hepsi and Cujo2 are thin; Heidi, joy, Lassie,Quinn, Bear, Kojak, Milla and Jenna, ideal; Odessa, Babsy, and Ninja, fat. Lassie might be on the thin side, Bear on the thick side of ideal.


----------



## Leon big boy

I taked measures from Leon and he is 86 lbs and 25.6 in which is the top of a GSD standart and he is Just 8 months and 10 days. Do you guys Think he could be a King Shepherd, or a Mix?
What propabily can be his size when he is fully grown?
Sheers


----------



## thegooseman90

Leon big boy said:


> I taked measures from Leon and he is 86 lbs and 25.6 in which is the top of a GSD standart and he is Just 8 months and 10 days. Do you guys Think he could be a King Shepherd, or a Mix?
> What propabily can be his size when he is fully grown?
> Sheers


I don't think he could be a king shepherd and I feel 99% confident to say he's mixed. With what I don't know. Without a pedigree from a reputable breeder it's all a guessing game. You can get him DNA tested to find out exactly what he is, if it's that important to you.


----------



## LeoRose

I'm wondering if Leon might be a GSD x LIvestock Guardian type dog?


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## selzer

Well, now that I weighed the lot of them, I am happy to say that no one is over 100#. 

My largest is Babsy, who is tipping the scales at 90#s. Uhg! I thought she was heavier to heave up onto the grooming table than Odie. She's about 23.5 inches, a good inch shorter than Jenna. And Jenna weighed in at 79. Oh Babs. Who'd've (Hey, how do you make that contraction -- who would have???) thought that brussel sprouts and orange slices could have caused this.


----------



## thegooseman90

selzer said:


> (Hey, how do you make that contraction -- who would have???)


 It's who would've lol your way was funny tho


----------



## tryzub

MY Boy was 153 in January now down to mid 120's he couldn't jump on a king bed in January now he gets "air", we inherited him from a neighbor who got too sick to care for him and take him for what are now marathon walks at all hours of the day. Yuri is plenty healthy he looks like he from the "polar bear" puppies variety just wondering what optimum weight for him is because it's not 85lbs!


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## thegooseman90

tryzub said:


> MY Boy was 153 in January now down to mid 120's he couldn't jump on a king bed in January now he gets "air", we inherited him from a neighbor who got too sick to care for him and take him for what are now marathon walks at all hours of the day. Yuri is plenty healthy he looks like he from the "polar bear" puppies variety just wondering what optimum weight for him is because it's not 85lbs!


 Good job cutting his weight down! It's really unhealthy for a dog to be overweight and especially obese like that. Bet you've seen a nice change in his energy levels too. As far as optimal weight, that'll vary from dog to dog. Does he fall into breed standard for height? If so he's likely somewhere in standard for weight too. Just keep bringing his weight down slowly. You want to be able to feel his ribs without seeing them.


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## Slamdunc

tryzub said:


> MY Boy was 153 in January now down to mid 120's he couldn't jump on a king bed in January now he gets "air", we inherited him from a neighbor who got too sick to care for him and take him for what are now marathon walks at all hours of the day. Yuri is plenty healthy he looks like he from the "polar bear" puppies variety just wondering what optimum weight for him is because it's not 85lbs!


Is that a recent picture at 120 lbs?


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## Leon big boy

LeoRose said:


> I'm wondering if Leon might be a GSD x LIvestock Guardian type dog?


I have Think the same, but except for his ears he looks Very much as a GSD, dont you Think só?

Maybe his ears stand until 1 year, dont you Think its possible yet?


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## selzer

Leon big boy said:


> I have Think the same, but except for his ears he looks Very much as a GSD, dont you Think só?
> 
> Maybe his ears stand until 1 year, dont you Think its possible yet?


I really don't think those ears are going to go up. Not on their own, and while you can try mole foam and glue, I don't think they will stand at this point.


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## tryzub

yup, he was washed and looks a bit fluffed out.


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## Leon big boy

Leon and Lady, 9 months and 2 weeks.

Sheers!


----------



## Leon big boy

Leon and Lady, almost onde year (will complete in 4 days), 103 and 60 lbs, respectively.


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## CranberryGSD

My sisters boy is like 110 ibs. He is a big boy.


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## Leon big boy

Leon sometime is eating standed too. Its good for his legs and balance, do you guys agree? I am 1.84 m.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Leon big boy said:


> Leon sometime is eating standed too. Its good for his legs and balance, do you guys agree? I am 1.84 m.


I am all for good condition but, personally, I would prefer to feed the dog and let him eat in peace. If it were me, I would try those exercises with a toy instead.


----------



## Leon big boy

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am all for good condition but, personally, I would prefer to feed the dog and let him eat in peace. If it were me, I would try those exercises with a toy instead.


Thanks for the advices. Of course its not every time and Just for Very short momments. He eats always in peace. Its Just a piece of joke to see his condition but i agree with you.

He is a fine boy and I dont like to stress him. You are right.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

Leon big boy said:


> Thanks for the advices. Of course its not every time and Just for Very short momments. He eats always in peace. Its Just a piece of joke to see his condition but i agree with you.
> 
> He is a fine boy and I dont like to stress him. You are right.


Yes, they both seem like very nice dogs.


----------



## Leon big boy

Hi folks. Here is Leon, 1 year and 2 months old and 115 lbs.

Still growing a little.

A Very nice boy, dont you Think so?


----------



## konathegsd

Leon big boy said:


> Hi folks. Here is Leon, 1 year and 2 months old and 115 lbs.
> 
> Still growing a little.
> 
> A Very nice boy, dont you Think so?


Are his paws infected ??


----------



## Slamdunc

Leon big boy said:


> Hi folks. Here is Leon, 1 year and 2 months old and 115 lbs.
> 
> Still growing a little.
> 
> A Very nice boy, dont you Think so?


I'm sure he is a nice dog. You should definitely take a few pounds off him, he is too heavy for such a young dog.


----------



## Leon big boy

Slamdunc said:


> I'm sure he is a nice dog. You should definitely take a few pounds off him, he is too heavy for such a young dog.


You guys really Think he os só much heavy indeed?

One mor Pic to Help evaluate

About his Paes i LL check Tomorrow


----------



## Leon big boy

Slamdunc said:


> I'm sure he is a nice dog. You should definitely take a few pounds off him, he is too heavy for such a young dog.


You guys really Think he os só much heavy indeed?

One mor Pic to Help evaluate

About his Paes i LL check Tomorrow


----------



## selzer

He had rear dew claws. Not unheard of I suppose. I've never seen them myself though. I know there are breeds that have rear dews, large breeds, like Great Pyranese, and Leonbergers.

I think that when they occur in sheps, most breeders cut them off shortly after birth because they can snag on things, and if they do, it will bleed like the dickens.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

Take a look at that other picture of Leon though, in between his toes are red and bloody looking. I also think that he looks severely over weight, not good for his hips at all. Our shepherd had dew claws, the breeder removed them.


----------



## Leon big boy

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Take a look at that other picture of Leon though, in between his toes are red and bloody looking. I also think that he looks severely over weight, not good for his hips at all. Our shepherd had dew claws, the breeder removed them.


I understand you guys Think he is overweighted but look Leon is a Very Very strong dog. I can't take him anymore on the leash because my painful arms dont get It. He easily jumps stairs and even to kiss me in my face and run Very fast for his size.
Maybe he could be a little more thin but im not sure If he is só severely overweighted.

What you guys Think?


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

Leon big boy said:


> I understand you guys Think he is overweighted but look Leon is a Very Very strong dog. I can't take him anymore on the leash because my painful arms dont get It. He easily jumps stairs and even to kiss me in my face and run Very fast for his size.
> Maybe he could be a little more thin but im not sure If he is só severely overweighted.
> 
> What you guys Think?


I think Leon looks heavier due to long, thick fur and his structure. I am more concerned about him pulling you and not being able to be walked anymore. How big is your yard? What do you do for exercise with him now? What do you do to enrich his life if he can't leave your home and yard? A dog can be just fine carrying a few extra pounds, but a lack of exercise is far more concerning and detrimental to his health and could result in further weight gain.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

Leon big boy said:


> I understand you guys Think he is overweighted but look Leon is a Very Very strong dog. I can't take him anymore on the leash because my painful arms dont get It. He easily jumps stairs and even to kiss me in my face and run Very fast for his size.
> Maybe he could be a little more thin but im not sure If he is só severely overweighted.
> 
> What you guys Think?


Sounds like he needs an obedience class unless you're fine with that behavior. Also take a good look in between his paws, in your one photo they are bleeding.


----------



## Sabis mom

Leon big boy said:


> I understand you guys Think he is overweighted but look Leon is a Very Very strong dog. I can't take him anymore on the leash because my painful arms dont get It. He easily jumps stairs and even to kiss me in my face and run Very fast for his size.
> Maybe he could be a little more thin but im not sure If he is só severely overweighted.
> 
> What you guys Think?


I think he is overweight and you need to up the exercise. And please do check his feet.


----------



## Leon big boy

Due your concern about his Paws i taked some pics and they dont seem any sign of bleeding to me, Just the color of his Coat and skin, dont you agree.

About exercise i take him to walk sometimes but i agree that he should increase the exercise and i Will do that.

About overweighted, i LL Control a bit more his food.

Thanks for all the opinions and concern that Help me and him so much.

Its a beatiful dog with Very good temper, and enjoy to live and make Friends with other dogs too.

Any more advices? Thanks anyway.


----------



## thegooseman90

What happened to his nails.....does he spend his days digging at concrete or something? We can't judge his weight as a gsd because he's not just a gsd but a mix of something. To me he looks pretty well obese at this point but maybe his owner can feel something that we can't see. His leash antics aren't a sign of his size and strength but rather a lack of your control over the dog. My dog is probably under 80 lbs still and would hurt my shoulder if I allowed him to drag me around on our walks. If you got better control he'd get more exercise


----------



## Sabis mom

thegooseman90 said:


> What happened to his nails.....does he spend his days digging at concrete or something? We can't judge his weight as a gsd because he's not just a gsd but a mix of something. To me he looks pretty well obese at this point but maybe his owner can feel something that we can't see. His leash antics aren't a sign of his size and strength but rather a lack of your control over the dog. *My dog is probably under 80 lbs still and would hurt my shoulder if I allowed him *to drag me around on our walks. If you got better control he'd get more exercise


Shadow is about 50 lbs and I likened walking her to being dragged by a truck at one point. Lol.


----------



## selzer

I don't know that he is mixed. He may be oversized or overweight. Not sure. Drop ears certainly happen in shepherds as do dew claws. I do not see any of the other breeds noted for dews in him, but they are big dogs too, so it is possible. Evenso, he could be a slightly over-sized shepherd, that is somewhat overweight, or a somewhat over-sized shepherd that is slightly overweight. I'd probably take 10-15 pounds off the dog, and see what happens to his energy level.


----------



## Leon big boy

Yes, um not do sure yet If he is really Mixed, he certnaily have the bloodline of big dogs to me.

Im not só sure If he is severally overweighted top because he easily jumps stairs and obstacles over 1m and i didnt Tell him to do that, like you ser in this picture as os playing.


----------



## Leon big boy

This stairs for example he came to me at the top with a single jump yeasterday. That is the behavior of a severally fat dog? Im not so sure.


----------



## Leon big boy

This seems a fat dog for you guys? I Think he is Just a big and lovely dog!


----------



## pashana

This one just tiny bit too fat. Why? Feel The ribs,too much fat over them. He tended to Be too skinny so got salmon with his food. It IS hard balancing with food when they grow but skinnier IS the better option for joints also.


----------



## car2ner

Leon big boy said:


> This seems a fat dog for you guys? I Think he is Just a big and lovely dog!



It is always hard to tell from photos, especially with fluffy dogs. The best thing is to feel for that bone structure and look for a tuck. When you find a good fit for your dog, plenty of good muscle and no jiggle, remember that weight. Visit the scales every couple of months because weight can creep up slowly without us noticing. 

My boy went from a skinny constant of the mid 70s at 2 years old, then to a sleek mid 80s when he turned 3 years . 90 is good for him but over that I start watching his calories. His dad was a healthy 110. Even at a healthy fit 100+ that is a lot of dog and it is harder to move around as they age.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

Leon big boy said:


> This stairs for example he came to me at the top with a single jump yeasterday. That is the behavior of a severally fat dog? Im not so sure.


Yes a fat dog can do that too. Stop worrying so much about HOW BIG your dog is and start focusing more on his health and training maybe ? His nails and paws DON'T look good, they look red and licked in between and the nails are either worn down from digging into concrete (bored dog) or maybe even chewed on because his feet are irritated. Also dragging you around and acting like a wild dog doesn't sound like you spend much time training him. Maybe this is acceptable in brazil? Does he sleep outside in that dirty little paved in area? Here is a thought, take him to the vet they will tell you if he is too fat and get you going in the right direction health wise. Maybe look into a trainer to help you control him better too.


----------



## Leon big boy

My friend there is not a small dirty área. This área isnt dirty. What you see in the wallpaper is Moss, thing that exists on Nature and i dont saw any info that It can harm them.

He dont sleep there. He sleepy usually near the door.

I wash this área almost everything data to keepit clean and healty.

He dont seem bored to me for now but i ll take him to the Vet and play more atention to that and the other suggestions you have made.

Thanks.


----------



## IronhideKennels

I posted this boy in another thread about fit GSD's over 100 lbs. He is 97 lbs in this condition, so a very large boy. Big boned, large etc has NOTHING to do with condition. This boy has TONNES of bone, but his condition is fit. I have included a pic of all my dogs so you can see his size - puppy is 3 months old in this photo (look at her puppy muscles already), his dam who is 58-60 lbs, and to the left his sire, who is about 80 lbs at 6.5 years old.


----------



## thegooseman90

I remember him from that other thread. Great looking dog. The only time it's ok for a gsd to weigh almost 100 lbs or more is if it looks like that. Great contrast between a big athlete and that other dog. Thanks for posting this here


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

I am just curious, IF, and I am not insinuating that Leon is, but what IF he were part Great Pyrenees? Would you people still consider him overweight?

This is a picture used by the Great Pyreness Club of America as a example of what a well bred, good conditioned Great Pyrenees should look like. Is this dog over weight?


----------



## tim_s_adams

Looking at his body structure, the dew claws, etc., I was thinking mostly or partly Leonberger. Average weight for a male is 140-150 lbs....


----------



## Leon big boy

IronhideKennels said:


> I posted this boy in another thread about fit GSD's over 100 lbs. He is 97 lbs in this condition, so a very large boy. Big boned, large etc has NOTHING to do with condition. This boy has TONNES of bone, but his condition is fit. I have included a pic of all my dogs so you can see his size - puppy is 3 months old in this photo (look at her puppy muscles already), his dam who is 58-60 lbs, and to the left his sire, who is about 80 lbs at 6.5 years old.


Beatiful dogs! Excellent condition! Beatiful family! Congratulations.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

tim_s_adams said:


> Looking at his body structure, the dew claws, etc., I was thinking mostly or partly Leonberger. Average weight for a male is 140-150 lbs....


There are a lot of big boned German Shepherds with thick, off standing, longer coats. I highly doubt that without putting hands on the dog, the average person can tell by looking at a picture whether those dogs are overweight or not. The trained eye can probably tell a different story.


----------



## Leon big boy

I was thinking that maybe he completed his growth but is interesting to see that Leon still growing.

Ser on PIC with 1year and now, 2 months later.
What you Think? How much he can grown from now?

140 lbs as leonberger is possible?

Just curiousity, of course.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

He looks like he is the same height as my pure GSD. Again I think a good vet will be able to tell much better than people on the internet looking at just photos :smile2: .


----------



## Nigel

MineAreWorkingline said:


> There are a lot of big boned German Shepherds with thick, off standing, longer coats. I highly doubt that without putting hands on the dog, the average person can tell by looking at a picture whether those dogs are overweight or not. The trained eye can probably tell a different story.
> 
> View attachment 464050


My wl male Ranger has a coat that stands off and it makes him look much larger than he really is. He is the same size and weight as our wgsl male who is also a coatie only his coat hangs closer to his body. It's very deceptive, most people assume Ranger to be the larger of the two.


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## selzer

Is that a double rear dew claw?


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## Leon big boy

Yes, is there.

Leon isnt Just a big boy but a handsome dog too, do you agree?:smile2:


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## Leon big boy

Hey guys, i noticed that Leon has a Double dew claw in one feet and a single Dee claw in the other. This is normal? Something that i should Care? Thanks.


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## Nigel

No, it's not normal. Getting them removed surgically by the vet would be better option than having them get caught on something and potentially cause injury. 

Leon is a good looking pup!


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## MineAreWorkingline

I think you should make sure you keep them trimmed and if he ever needs surgery for something else, you may want to consider having them removed.


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## selzer

It is not a problem, and it is not un-heard of. 'Normal' is kind of a funny word. If it isn't normal means it is an issue, then it's normal. If it isn't normal means that most GSDs do not have them, well than it isn't normal. But there are some GSDs that have them, even double dews. Some breeds require them in their standard. Beucerons, and some others. 

Yeah, your dog is very handsome. 

I would not worry about the dews. As MAWL said, if you are putting him under for some other surgery, I would have them snip them. They can snag on things, and the rear ones are unnecessary. I would never cut the front ones. Dogs kind of use them almost like thumbs.


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## Nigel

selzer said:


> It is not a problem, and it is not un-heard of. 'Normal' is kind of a funny word. If it isn't normal means it is an issue, then it's normal. If it isn't normal means that most GSDs do not have them, well than it isn't normal. But there are some GSDs that have them, even double dews. Some breeds require them in their standard. Beucerons, and some others.
> 
> Yeah, your dog is very handsome.
> 
> I would not worry about the dews. As MAWL said, if you are putting him under for some other surgery, I would have them snip them. They can snag on things, and the rear ones are unnecessary. *I would never cut the front ones. Dogs kind of use them almost like thumbs*.


mine use their fronts for holding things and for digging in while climbing steep banks. Maybe I've got this wrong, but aren't rear dew claws often non-functioning? never had a dog with them.


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## Jenny720

A lot of rear dewclaws are removed by breeders. There are gsds that do have Double dewclaws it’s rare. This was talked about in another thread I think. Similar to having a double thumb. Some cats although rare has this to. It’s purpose is for traction helps with turns and stuff. They are removed to reduce the dewclaws getting caught on stuff. As mention keeping them trim will prevent that problem of getting caught on stuff. He looks like a average height gsd to me who is big boned and extra weight can easily add bulk. You will have to monitor his weight carefully. He is cute. I would have a vet take a look at his front paw with the redness between his toes there looks like an infection- in that first photo you posted a few days ago.http://dogsaholic.com/care/yeast-infection-in-dogs-paws.html


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## Leon big boy

I forgot to tell you that a few days ago Leon vomited after having eaten some raw beef liver. I took the vet who gave him a amoxilin só i Think could be some temporary side effect. His Paws até perfect now.


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