# Board and Train Vent not general info moved



## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

So as most of you know, my hands are quite full with my girl Zelda. (in a good way mostly!)

Management is key for the most part with a lot of her things for now.. However, I do wish to improve some of her behavioral problems at a better rate than they are.

My sister said that her friend suggests i do a board and train. And my sister suggested it before and is again pushing the debate of how it would be good for her, because it will "rewire her brain."

I did think about, i researched it, i searched board/train people near me. And contacted two of them, their answers to my questions were less than perfect.. I simply do not feel comfortable with sending her off somewhere, even if i met the person before hand, for 2-4 weeks. How would i know she is being treated well? What training style are they actually going to use? I want to be the one to work with her through things and if i have to bring someone in to help ME (because i know im just incompetent when it comes to training) than that is what it shall be. If i'm going to spend $2000-$4000 on a board/train, i could be spending that money on a trainer to come to my house for weeks! "rewire her brain" sounds a bit sketchy and also it sounds like an easy fix. I dont think any of her behavioral problems are going to be an easy fix.

Now, i did think when i was researching board and train. How maybe it would help her get on the right start to being with someone who has been training dogs for years and knows what they are doing.. And i thought, maybe im being selfish and worrying too much about lettings someone "rewire her brain" for me under 2-4 weeks. 

So my end results of this fusing, is that i do not plan on doing a board and train. Because i think the only part of me that wants to do that, is the part of me that wants an "easy fix." And my logical part knows there is none, i just need to work with her more and would be better with a trainer.


Anyways, I'm interested in what you guys think of board and train. I'm quite open to any opinion. If your for or against it or maybe have no opinion. Thanks.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would never board and train for behavioral issues. Half the training is for the PERSON, not the dog and it will NOTE "rewire" her brain. Her brain is what it is. There is no easy fix.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think that you'd get so much more out of 1-on-1 training with Zelda. You're obviously very willing to learn, and work hard on your own training inexperience, so this is where a great trainer would be worth their weight in gold. "Rewire her brain" lol! What great leaps in science have I missed?!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with Jax08. Find a great trainer and do private lessons until you are ready for more.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I am so much more interested in learning myself how to get the best out of my dog, so a board and train situation would never be the choice for me. I love the journey of the experience just as much (if not more) than actually getting to the destination. Besides, you can never really reach the end of the road with training, there is always something new ahead. 

Now, that being said, I have used my trainer to board Tanner before. Not specifically to train, but to have him stay with someone who knew where we were at with training while I was out of town. It was a great experience and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. 
Sheilah


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

What they said


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> "Rewire her brain" lol! What great leaps in science have I missed?!


Seriously.

I'm not a fan of board-and-train for a number of reasons that I'm sure I've posted about somewhere in the past. As far as my own personal dogs go, I can't fathom how a board-and-train program would ever help us, and I can very easily see where it would do a lot of damage.

As far as other people's dogs go, I think in almost all cases, people are better served learning how to read and communicate with their own dogs in an ongoing relationship. Nothing your dog is going to learn in two weeks of B&T is that difficult to teach, so why not just do it yourself?


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## Amurphy26 (Jul 22, 2012)

I like the idea of a quick fix and while I've thought of it myself I couldn't do it to my GSD. I have no doubt that a trainer/behaviourist could sort her much quicker than me but I firmly believe part of her problem stems from not trusting or having confidence in me and I think that's the same for a lot of reactive dogs. If the problem stems from lack of trust/confidence, no board and train will ever fix the problem without one on one with the dog AND the owner. 


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would never spend $2-$4 grand on board-and-train. Use that money to join a great club or even pay a trainer for private sessions. I have done some board and train for a friend and didn't make a fraction of that. In fact I probably didn't even break even for what I spent in food, puppy supplies, and vet care (I prefer to do young puppies). There are people who board and train but it's something you have to love to do, not be making thousands of dollars. I personally would never send my dog away but I have dogs *because* I love to train.


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## lennoxbradley88 (Apr 23, 2012)

I would never board my dog for training. I can't even board them for a night lol. Anyways, there is nothing a "board and train" facility can do that a trainer coming to your house cant. Just find yourself a trainer that you feel comfortable with, but like I said I would stay away from boarding


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's more cost benefit to me than anything else. If you're Warren Buffet, and you make more than $4000 in the 5 minutes that it takes your assistant to call a trainer and set up a board/train with your dog, it might be worth it because at the end of the day you probably don't have the time to spend on training your dog. If people are spending their day training your dog...devoting much more time than someone with a full time job probably can to train their dog...of course you're going to see results.

I don't know or care to know what OP's income level is, but many times these places have to be catering to the upper class. I can't imagine anyone in the middle class having the ability to pay $4000 for a few weeks of training on a dog that probably cost them $1000 in the first place. So for those for who $4000 a month is disposable income, I can see how something like this could be interesting and worth while...but for the rest of us, I don't think we'll really be able to completely understand the idea...the cost is just way too prohibative.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think at some point you have to consider the dog, too. Even if you found the greatest B&T in the whole world, would that training be beneficial? In Zelda's case, I would think not. If OP is already having discussions with her vet over anxiety treatment, then this dog doesn't sound like a good candidate for this type of training, IMO.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Another aspect is the knowledge and intent of the dog's owner. What I mean is, when I board and train a puppy, the puppy is owned by someone who is telling *me* what they want done with their puppy, what sort of obedience they want started (or not!), what types of socialization, etc. I don't always raise and train the puppy as I would if it were a dog I own. I think it can work really well that way. If someone else has access to resources/training/opportunities that would benefit the dog, it can be a good experience. But I don't think it works as well if a dog supposedly has a problem and the trainer is expected to deal with that. Often the owner's interpretation of the problem or behavior is a lot different than the trainer and the expectations do not match the final product (I am not saying one or the other is more or less right, it goes both ways). I have in the past paid specific trainers for individual instruction based on some skill I want to master with my dogs but it's always been *be* deciding what trainer, method, and tool would work best for my dog and seeking out someone who I think can help me in that area of our training.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> "rewire her brain."


Please, remember, and I'd repeat it again and again, that *separation from the owner is the greatest stress young dog can possibly have*. ( I don't talk about dogs left in kennels for a while and got used to it since they were puppies)That is why these board training methods work. Being left by their own pack in unknown place the majority of dogs lose orientation and are very scared, some dogs turn self-protective, and those with weak nerve start to panic. And then this "brain rewiring" starts. Absolute stranger put prong on them and start to correct the "negativity". Say, correcting strong reaction to the presence of other dogs - the handler with your dog walks by the enclosures with other dogs who cannot see each other, but can see yours walking with tail between legs. One of them barks - all of them will bark, they don't know where the barks come from and start bashing their paws at the net, barking agressively, because they weren't "rewired" yet. The trainer calls your dog's name in a sweet voice and tugs the prong strongly every time she turns her eyes to one of these dogs. She would be crated in a crate of very small size and left hungry untill next morning to "digest well new experience". The next morning she would be whining only sees yet another trainer who will repeat the procedure. And the following day yet with another person, with whom, mostly likely, she would heel perfectly just looking into his eyes. What her eyes must express for him - desperation and pleading mercy. If they don't - her torture would be repeated the next day. All 3-4 days she wouldn't be fed, only watered. Don't worry, she wouldn't die of hunger, she just would react on food in the trainer's hand really well in the morning of the fifth day, every time the prong produces a slightest jingle - she would be rewarded. After that - off leash, and after off leash repetitions she would meet trained dogs nose to nose. Hunger and prong "heal" the majority of dogs, in fact bad tempered self-protective individuals are not much different then other dog, it's all happens to be bluff on their side. *It is not difficult to break the dog's spirit*. The weak nerved are drugged up and down the stairs, across the water pond, they are provided with as many experiences the board cabn afford with their facilities. Hunger is the greatest training tool! These dogs are so stressed and hungry, that any kindness expressed by the trainer seems a sort of a heavenly blessing for them. Different trainers from the first ones would feed your dog well further days, walk with her and other "rewired" dogs, play with her, but, if she shows any signs of "bad behaviour" - she would go back into ****. And so - for a month. Some GSDs could be a bit harder nuts, because they were brought up by their naive and unexperienced owners as alphas. Hunger, prong, choke collar and irreplacable stick makes them angels within the month, because... They are *young*.
But the most horrible thing is that, all this boarding doesn't work longer than a month, your dog would relapse into her "bad behaviour" only she gets better and overcomes her stress. In the presence of satisfied "trainers" and their greetings your dog would meet you with tears in her eyes, and would be horrified of thought that she can lose you again during next weeks to such an expent, that she would appear perfect. She would run to you and whine, when you call her, she would be lovely at everything! And then... She would be back to square one. Stress works only for a while, but that is enough for those who feed on someone like you. You may tell your friends how well it works and they might send their dogs to boards as well. All depends which ones. Because, I have heard that some returned dogs started attacking members of the family right after.
I don't know how recently these "boards" became popular. But it catches attention of many dog owners. Please, remember, that the dog is only an animal, and is driven by instincts. In right hands every dog could be perfect. Why you desided that it couldn't be your hands? It is you. who should be trained, not your dog tortured for nothing.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Taggart i dunno where you imagined that scenario but if you mastered the paragraph you might have a future in fiction


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Baillif said:


> Taggart i dunno where you imagined that scenario but if you mastered the paragraph you might have a future in fiction


Hahaha! I tried the not feeding for Three days lost three fingers! Lol Bill


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Not sure whether to laugh or be offended.....David I have board and trained puppies and would never torture them, use a prong, use hunger to get results, and am most certainly NOT attempting to "rewire" their brains. They are purchased and trained/socialized BECAUSE of who they are, genetically. Wonderful puppies full of potential, drive, courage, they are little sponges for learning and observing new things. Their life is playing, eating, sleeping so that is what I use to shape their early experiences.

Whatever you are describing sounds like quack training that should be reported to the authorities.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> They are purchased and trained/socialized


How it could be compared? That what I have described I observed with my own eyes a year ago, and it is going on in UK, the country of dog lovers! The stories from US are simply horrifying. There weren't any puppies, the majority of dogs were between 6 months and two years - the age when young dog's psyche is the most sensative because the dog is maturing sexually. This sort of training based on the issue that the dog feels vulnerable. At the age of three years some dogs *can die* out of stress being separated from their owners. Or, that is something new?


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## Sookie (Aug 28, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> How it could be compared? That what I have described I observed with my own eyes a year ago, and it is going on in UK, the country of dog lovers! The stories from US are simply horrifying. There weren't any puppies, the majority of dogs were between 6 months and two years - the age when young dog's psyche is the most sensative because the dog is maturing sexually. This sort of training based on the issue that the dog feels vulnerable. At the age of three years some dogs *can die* out of stress being separated from their owners. Or, that is something new?


I'm so confused.... What is going on in the UK? What stories from the US? You are obviously referring to a specific story or stories but don't give any sources. I'm sure there are horrible places like the ones you mention, but the OP was asking about *legitimate* board and train places. She is heavily invested in her dog's well-being, which you would know if you have read her other posts about the work she has done with Zelda, and I'm sure would do any and all required checks on any facility she considered. 

Anyway - I'm curious about what is going on in the UK, as I live here now, and have never heard of any kind of place remotely like the one you are describing.


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## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

We had a friend do this....their dog can back so aggressive they re-homed him. I would never do board and train. I would fine a really great working dog trainer. We went through 2 trainers before we found one that understood working dogs and could give us the best direction! It has changed our lives!!! Training is so simple since they were 6 months old, when we first started with the 3rd trainer. He reads them better and can direct and train us better! Completely different!!!! 

Good luck! Sorry you are having struggles.....! 


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Hi OP, I did board and train, twice. It was effective, no regrets. I did have a wonderful trainer who is really good at her job. I continue the training on my own but it was much easier than starting from scratch and gave me the confidence I needed to continue. It also wasn't that expensive and cost me about the same as if I were to do private lessons for that many times. If you can find a trainer that has good track record and the price is fair then it may be worth while. My dog did end up liking the trainer more than I - that is the only bit that isn't so perfect. =)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Bear L...what was the reason for you sending your dog away for training? Is your dog reactive, or was it just for basic obedience pet training? 
I think it depends on what is going on with the dog. 

Lies, I wouldn't compare your puppy foundation for two or three weeks as the same "board and train" type situation.

Puppies aren't usually carrying fear aggression or other behaviors that need modification or management.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

David Taggart said:


> How it could be compared? That what I have described I observed with my own eyes a year ago, and it is going on in UK, the country of dog lovers! The stories from US are simply horrifying. There weren't any puppies, the majority of dogs were between 6 months and two years - the age when young dog's psyche is the most sensative because the dog is maturing sexually. This sort of training based on the issue that the dog feels vulnerable. At the age of three years some dogs *can die* out of stress being separated from their owners. Or, that is something new?


Could you please cite where you are getting your information from? You seem to have many "stories" from the US that Americans have never heard of.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Anyway - I'm curious about what is going on in the UK, as I live here now, and have never heard of any kind of place remotely like the one you are describing.


 And you wouldn't. Who is going to tell you? Plus to everything, you know, it is not nice damaging somebody's good business... Including dog fights in UK.
I believe this "board/kennel traning" is a recent issue, it came from US, and, as everything from US, it is thought to have good expertise. Dog schools thrive in UK, just read this, it's ridiculous: Dog Training schools, classes, courses and dog boarding kennels It denies not only the dog's nature, but simple human logics. What are they? Dog whisperers?
Agree, that a dog, who got used to be in kennels since the early age, would be friendlier with the handler, but not nessesarily with other dogs. I appreciate those who don't only care, but train young puppies in their kennels. Sorry, it is not applicable to already adult dogs, who have issues of being reactive, and never left their leader.
Zelda's owner needs a recommended trainer, preferably with a dog, who will point to her any mistakes she might be making, help her to "read" her dog.


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## Sookie (Aug 28, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> And you wouldn't. Who is going to tell you? Plus to everything, you know, it is not nice damaging somebody's good business... Including dog fights in UK.
> I believe this "board/kennel traning" is a recent issue, it came from US, and, as everything from US, it is thought to have good expertise. Dog schools thrive in UK, just read this, it's ridiculous: Dog Training schools, classes, courses and dog boarding kennels It denies not only the dog's nature, but simple human logics. What are they? Dog whisperers?
> Agree, that a dog, who got used to be in kennels since the early age, would be friendlier with the handler, but not nessesarily with other dogs. I appreciate those who don't only care, but train young puppies in their kennels. Sorry, it is not applicable to already adult dogs, who have issues of being reactive, and never left their leader.
> Zelda's owner needs a recommended trainer, preferably with a dog, who will point to her any mistakes she might be making, help her to "read" her dog.


I never suggested VTgirl use a board and train place; I would suggest she did not, but my point was *if* she did, I am confident she would select a good one. 

And I'm sorry but I'm still confused. I don't doubt that there are a couple horrible training places out there, but what do they have to do with dog fights? Are you suggesting that they are a front for illegal dog fighting groups? As someone fairly active with animal rescues and charities I think I would hear about any places like the one you described. The link you sent seems like an average place. It says they use all positive methods, and as I have never even seen a prong collar in the UK, let alone an e-collar (which are illegal in Wales), I don't imagine they would stay open very long if they were using harsh corrective measures. I'm not saying it looks good or bad, but it doesn't look like the house of horrors you were describing. 

Again... I suppose I just don't see what you described in your original post in the link you've provided. And while I would personally never send a dog to a board and train place, I just cannot imagine it would be at all difficult to gauge which ones are good or bad after visiting them and talking to the staff. I'm not denying there are bad places or places I would consider too harsh, but the level of abuse you are suggesting is endemic to board and train facilities is just hard for me to swallow without evidence.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> I just cannot imagine it would be at all difficult to gauge which ones are good or bad after visiting them


 The mentioned place is within the walking distance from my house. I called there, asking general questions about training methods, just in case. Instead of answering, the "family member" said that they don't have any vacant places at the moment. Who would allow you to see anything? You are supposed to be on holidays! I never saw dogs wearing prong in UK myself, but saw prong collars for sale in the Pet World, probably this girl didn't have to order it via Internet 



If there wasn't a buyer, there wouldn't be any sellers.
Puppies cannot bite each other to cause damages. And it is pretty safe to train a bullterrier puppy ( some of them are agressive) to dominate over a puppy of another breed, isn't it? Normally, the trainer would keep the bully separately, but what if the owner pays? UK leads a rich underground life: A terrifying encounter with the brutal world of dog-fighting - Features - Health & Families - The Independent


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

David Taggart said:


> At the age of three years some dogs *can die* out of stress being separated from their owners. Or, that is something new?


It's news to me. I adopted a dog at the age of 3. She certainly did not die of stress...

I guess I feel bad your experiences with GSDs seem to all be with dogs that have extremely weak nerve and separation anxiety. I hope you can have the opportunity to work with some nice dogs.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Personally, I would never send a dog any age away for training, but if someone is dead set on doing it, there are people who are honest and do it well. I'd be really skeptical of someone charging $4K per week though. Unfortunately I don't think higher price = better quality treatment and training. I have a friend taking care of one of my dogs for a few weeks because we need to have people staying at our house (long story, not for public discussion) and she's not "charging" a cent. In some sports it's fairly common for dogs to move around a bit to get certain training and exposure but it's not how someone makes a living. For example I love doing flyball and working with a wide variety of dogs so "flyball bootcamp" is FREE. There's a big difference in getting good training and basically paying for overpriced dog boarding that supposedly includes some training.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

In many cases rescue dogs start to love their new owner dearly. Every dog wants human love, I'm absolutely sure about it. Many dogs changed their attitudes completly, being badly treated - they know the difference. But, our subject is not that.
Board/kennel training is a very delicate issue, it is difficult to avoid hurting someone who is decent and kind, so I plead for better understanding. How many times have you heard here about some GSD being returned from the trainer? I point my ears with bad suspicion every time. IMHO, board/kennel training is good only for young puppies, much better than puppy parks, if we are talking about socialization.


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## Sookie (Aug 28, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> The mentioned place is within the walking distance from my house. I called there, asking general questions about training methods, just in case. Instead of answering, the "family member" said that they don't have any vacant places at the moment. Who would allow you to see anything? You are supposed to be on holidays! I never saw dogs wearing prong in UK myself, but saw prong collars for sale in the Pet World, probably this girl didn't have to order it via Internet 4. APDT UK Damage. Three Days After Prong Collar,Health Recovery. - YouTube
> If there wasn't a buyer, there wouldn't be any sellers.
> Puppies cannot bite each other to cause damages. And it is pretty safe to train a bullterrier puppy ( some of them are agressive) to dominate over a puppy of another breed, isn't it? Normally, the trainer would keep the bully separately, but what if the owner pays? UK leads a rich underground life: A terrifying encounter with the brutal world of dog-fighting - Features - Health & Families - The Independent


There is no connection between this article on dog fighting in a warehouse - illegal and underground - and facilities that offer training and boarding. I just have no clue what these totally different things have to do with each other. I never see prong collars in the UK and though you can own them legally (though I have never seen any for sale), they are frowned upon and they aren't likely to be used as a training method. I just don't see the connection between board and train places and dog fighting, either in the US or the UK. I'm lost.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

It all depends. In a household with young children, two working parents, and other complications --- yeah, I could see it. To deal with specific problems that you are screwing up, yeah, I could see it. BUT know who, know what and be willing to follow up with spending time with the trainer and your dog on top of it. 

(I try to never say never because as soon as I do.... oh yeah.)


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

They are ignorant and lazy. Dont listen to them and just watch as your dog eclipses any dog theyve ever owned. The whole attitude behind it is ridiculous, these ladies probably expect school to teach their kids instead of doing it themselves and school being supplemental.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

There are many good professional trainers that do board and train. They are ethically and morally sound. I am incredibly offended at the picture you paint of the situation David Taggart. 

Your statements defile people like Mike Suttles at Loganhaus Kennels, Stefan Schaub at Staatsmacht Kennels, Larry Krohn at Packmasters, Tyler Muto at K9 Connection... You call these people cruel and dare to describe conditions in their training facilities through association to an isolated event you have witnessed?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but broad generalization of training and husbandry conditions can not be made. I can tell you that any dog that comes to my home to be boarded and trained does not experience anything like what you describe. How you come to the conclusion that any mature dog will die if rehomed is beyond me. It happens every day. I have trained and placed many dogs who live out happy lives with their satisfied, well trained owners.

Sure, there are bad trainers out there, just like bad breeders, bad kids with rocks, bad groomers, bad vets, bad food, bad owners and bad sushi. If there weren't bad trainers, there wouldn't be good ones. There would just be trainers. If someone is naive enough to take their dog to a trainer that they don't first validate, their dog may have a bad experience. 

I would like to see some third party evidence that these bold statements about animal behavior, learning and socialization have any scientific merit of any kind. Maybe you read different books than I do, but you fail to connect the dots with any authors I have read or any studies I have seen published. It seems that you pull theory from your limited experience and state these opinions as fact. This can mislead people into believing in bad science, or no science, which can not be good for their dogs. 

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion, but it should be stated as such, and you should try to validate that opinion with facts whenever possible.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Does David Taggert even know who the people are you are posting about? I doubt it.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Does David Taggert even know who the people are you are posting about? I doubt it.


He's got google. I even posted the kennel names.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Maybe he got the idea from watching white fang....when WF was caged by the dog fighting ring


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> There is no connection between this article on dog fighting in a warehouse - illegal and underground - and facilities that offer training and boarding.


If you are a professional trainer, it is not necessary to stress for you, that you should decide on the job your dog is going to be involved in from the very beginning, right? In anythytng - Schutzhund, therapy or SAR, the training should be purposeful, committed and dedicated to one and the same, it starts when your dog is three months old. Therapy dog obedience is not Schutzhund obedience, though the commands are the same. Dogs need certain environments we choose and create for them. Fighting dogs are not different in it, they have to be trained to become killer dogs. If we are talking about early age, where do you think the owner can get so many puppies from to train his puppy to bully them? In a puppy park? No, he would be kicked out. Unlikely that he is a breeder, he simply wouldn't succeed in bringing up so many dominant dogs. He has to have an access to puppies. Kennels/boards is the easiest way to allow your young bully to play, paying the keeper good money. No physical harm is done. His pup can go from kennel to kennel every week, untill the pup starts to bite with attempt to suffocate. And the owner of some young Lab or GSD wonders - why his young dog is agressive or scared of other dogs, blaming bad genetics. These cases are rare, bu you asked the question and I answered.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

David Winners said:


> I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


You must be, you're writing serious posts in response to Taggart.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Merciel said:


> You must be, you're writing serious posts in response to Taggart.


I know, right!

David Winners


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

David Winners said:


> You call these people cruel and dare to describe conditions in their training facilities through association to an isolated event you have witnessed?


D.T. likes to say a lot about things he's never witnessed :crazy:


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## Sookie (Aug 28, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> If you are a professional trainer, it is not necessary to stress for you, that you should decide on the job your dog is going to be involved in from the very beginning, right? In anythytng - Schutzhund, therapy or SAR, the training should be purposeful, committed and dedicated to one and the same, it starts when your dog is three months old. Therapy dog obedience is not Schutzhund obedience, though the commands are the same. Dogs need certain environments we choose and create for them. Fighting dogs are not different in it, they have to be trained to become killer dogs. If we are talking about early age, where do you think the owner can get so many puppies from to train his puppy to bully them? In a puppy park? No, he would be kicked out. Unlikely that he is a breeder, he simply wouldn't succeed in bringing up so many dominant dogs. He has to have an access to puppies. Kennels/boards is the easiest way to allow your young bully to play, paying the keeper good money. No physical harm is done. His pup can go from kennel to kennel every week, untill the pup starts to bite with attempt to suffocate. And the owner of some young Lab or GSD wonders - why his young dog is agressive or scared of other dogs, blaming bad genetics. These cases are rare, bu you asked the question and I answered.


What?!?! So people who run kennels take money from people who fight dogs and allow the dogs in their care to be used as bait by dog fighting dogs?!?! And dog fight dogs learn to kill through playing with puppies?!?! And they kill by biting to suffocate?!?! I give up. This is madness.
ETA: you say it is rare in this post only, in all others you make it sound as though this is standard or the norm. *if* you think it is rare, you should emphasize that from the beginning, not paint all kennels as owned by cruel sociopaths farming out the pets in their care to be used by dogfighters' killer pups in training.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

David Taggart said:


> If you are a professional trainer, it is not necessary to stress for you, that you should decide on the job your dog is going to be involved in from the very beginning, right? In anythytng - Schutzhund, therapy or SAR, the training should be purposeful, committed and dedicated to one and the same, it starts when your dog is three months old. Therapy dog obedience is not Schutzhund obedience, though the commands are the same. Dogs need certain environments we choose and create for them. Fighting dogs are not different in it, they have to be trained to become killer dogs. If we are talking about early age, where do you think the owner can get so many puppies from to train his puppy to bully them? In a puppy park? No, he would be kicked out. Unlikely that he is a breeder, he simply wouldn't succeed in bringing up so many dominant dogs. He has to have an access to puppies. Kennels/boards is the easiest way to allow your young bully to play, paying the keeper good money. No physical harm is done. His pup can go from kennel to kennel every week, untill the pup starts to bite with attempt to suffocate. And the owner of some young Lab or GSD wonders - why his young dog is agressive or scared of other dogs, blaming bad genetics. These cases are rare, bu you asked the question and I answered.


So now you are saying that unassuming pet owners are leaving their dogs to be used as bait dogs for other dogs doing protection training. 


David Winners


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## Sookie (Aug 28, 2013)

David Winners said:


> So now you are saying that unassuming pet owners are leaving their dogs to be used as bait dogs for other dogs doing protection training.
> 
> 
> David Winners


Not protection training - dog fighting bait! And the kennel owners are the willing and paid accomplices of those in the dog fighting industry. (And what dogs bite to suffocate? Is there a boa constrictor dog out there I am unaware of?)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

David Taggart said:


> In many cases rescue dogs start to love their new owner dearly. Every dog wants human love, I'm absolutely sure about it. Many dogs changed their attitudes completly, being badly treated - they know the difference.


I didn't say anything about a rescue dog or a mistreated dog. 

People get dogs all ages every day and the dogs are just fine. Sure, there is some adjustment and every dog is different, but in general I think dogs are pretty resilient creatures that genuinely want to be happy. You make them sound like they cannot function without being attached at the hip to their owner.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Let me let you guys in on a horrifying little secret. When you drop your dog off at a good board and train they do so much fun awesome stuff they dont miss you for a second. They will be happy to see you again when you pick them up, sure. But they get over you super quick, and if they never saw you again theyd be just fine.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Baillif said:


> Let me let you guys in on a horrifying little secret. When you drop your dog off at a good board and train they do so much fun awesome stuff they dont miss you for a second. They will be happy to see you again when you pick them up, sure. But they get over you super quick, and if they never saw you again theyd be just fine.


Yeah, my dog agrees! It's like a doggie spa retreat for her. Secretly she prefers to not come home. She came back fit and toned and excited about everything. Life at home pales in great comparison to her boarding days.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

David Winners said:


> So now you are saying that unassuming pet owners are leaving their dogs to be used as bait dogs for other dogs doing protection training.
> 
> 
> David Winners


I cannot even comprehend most of his posts, will you consider making up a DT to English dictionary or translating?

Also, based on what I've read from you (and of course if I were able to meet you and discuss things with you etc), I would feel pretty confident leaving one of my dogs in your care if I needed to.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> Let me let you guys in on a horrifying little secret. When you drop your dog off at a good board and train they do so much fun awesome stuff they dont miss you for a second. They will be happy to see you again when you pick them up, sure. But they get over you super quick, and if they never saw you again theyd be just fine.


 Exactly! As that's what I've found with the dogs that have come here.. then again they do become part of my family until they are returned..

But like you said a good board and train.... And we all know that they're all not created equally.. 

It's so mind boggling some of the comments that are made on this site!!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

David Taggart, what country are you in? This can have a lot to do with one's experiences. 

I have friends that do board and train. Most work with puppies, but some work with young and mature dogs. The dog gets some training at the trainer's house and then in-home work with the owners. I have done board and train too for a handler that "didn't do puppies". My job was to do the early imprinting work in tracking, basic manners, crate training. 

Then there are the horror stories. I would always tell anyone looking to do board and train to do a lot of research and get references.


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## Ltleo (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm happy I found this question as I am in the mist of deciding a board and train. My issue is more with a dominate dog issue, where my 15 month wants to move up in my pack, and has started to growl at my wife and daughter at strange times. More when they come by me and the dog is waiting for me or for somthing from me as I am his main handler.

I was able to get in touch with John soares and he likes my dogs make up but suggested taking him out of the environment to go back over leash work in a board and train for two weeks, then work with my wife on handling.
I really don't want to board him as one I will miss him, and two I enjoy working and training him daily. I just don't know how to train or correct this, so I'm looking for an expert.
I really want to do daily private training so I can be the one who learns how to comunicate better with my dog. He really is a good fun boy.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate?


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## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

Ltleo said:


> I'm happy I found this question as I am in the mist of deciding a board and train. My issue is more with a dominate dog issue, where my 15 month wants to move up in my pack, and has started to growl at my wife and daughter at strange times. More when they come by me and the dog is waiting for me or for somthing from me as I am his main handler.
> 
> I was able to get in touch with John soares and he likes my dogs make up but suggested taking him out of the environment to go back over leash work in a board and train for two weeks, then work with my wife on handling.
> I really don't want to board him as one I will miss him, and two I enjoy working and training him daily. I just don't know how to train or correct this, so I'm looking for an expert.
> ...




I would look for a trainer in your area that specializes in working dogs...we were blessed enough to find a guy...who owns 4 mal's and 1 Czech...he has been doing it for many years, he knows the needs and is a pro at reading them! I can't tell you
How happy we are....he has taught us so much about the breed. I am sure if you tell people your area...they maybe able to point you in the right direction. We do drive an hour each for training...once a week....but it is soooo worth it!!! 

Good luck finding someone to help you! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow I just stumbled onto this thread! Talk about Mr. Toads Wild Ride!! Does anyone know if the poster who actually needed help found solutions?


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