# sending my dog out to be trained



## angel519

Hi I am thinking about sending my female who is 17 months old out to be trained for three weeks. My problem is she is not crate trained and she will be living with the family in there home and will be crated. Do you think it would hurt her spirit, her over all personality? She has never been in a crate and we have had her since she was 5 weeks old. I have two other males who are crate trained I just didnt want her to be crated. She has the run of the house with the four cats and sleeps in bed with me and my husband. My other concern is she will be gone for three weeks and I dont want her to think I abandon her. What is anyones feelings on this? Thanks for your input.


----------



## ThreeDogs

I personally would never send out a dog to be trained.

For me part of the fun of having a dog is training. I love it!!

Is there a reason you wish to send her off to training?


----------



## Chris Wild

Sending dogs out for training is one of those things that sounds nice but really doesn't work in reality.

Training is a way to bond with your dog. To earn your dog's respect, have them come to see you as the leader and the bearer of all good things (toys, treats, praise). It builds a relationship between dog and trainer. Sending your dog away for training is sending your dog away to build a relationship with someone else.

The other problem is that training isn't just teaching a dog to respond to certain words with a specific action. It's about communication between dog and handler. And that communication is a two way street. Dogs sent away for training may learn some commands and may perform those commands very well for the person who trained them because that person and that dog have learned to communicate. That isn't necessarily going to carry over to you if you don't know what sort of the training the dog has had, haven't been a part of it and haven't learned how to do your part to ensure clear communication.

My recommendation would be to skip sending your dog away for training, and put the money you'd spend on that into some good training classes where you and your dog can learn together and further your own relationship with one another.


----------



## Guest

I can't see the point in sending a dog out for training. A huge part of training is the bond between the handler and the dog. There is no substitute for that.


----------



## Gyggles1

I almost did the same thing but it wasn't quite 3 weeks, I decided against it and found a TERRIFIC trainer that comes in to our homes 1 on 1. she comes back tonight in fact, I can't wait!


----------



## Kayla's Dad

Gyggles1 posted on here a little while ago when he was considering the same thing. He got the same advice that you are getting now.

I agree with the other posters. You should be working on building that bond and hire a trainer or go to a class for the two of you.


----------



## GunnerJones

Hi Chris, what do you think about having a dog "finished"

I got the basic Obed rock solid and cute tricks thrown in as well but I really don't have the skills and experience to get things like bark and hold, bite work, etc


----------



## Maraccz

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarHi Chris, what do you think about having a dog "finished"
> 
> I got the basic Obed rock solid and cute tricks thrown in as well but I really don't have the skills and experience to get things like bark and hold, bite work, etc


The fun of Schutzhund is learning with your dog, like regular obedience, If someone else did the training there wouldn't be the "winning" of having it be your dog. If someone esle trains it it isn't REALLY your dog it is theirs. I am learning right along with my dog, sure he won't be perfect but he'll be good and I learn more for the next dog.
I could NEVER send my dog away to train, how would I learn?


----------



## GunnerJones

I send my child out every day to get trained, he's still my child
I can teach him readin riting and 'rithmatic and how to behave but to teach him Calculus, Art and European history he is going to be one misinformed individual


I see your point and would love to have the time to do something like that. I was given a Sch in training dog and it did take some time for some real bonding, about ten minutes and some real red meat and she's been Velcro dog ever since







I exaggerate a bit but we were doing Bh stuff like we knew each other all her life in a few weeks. Of course I'd never send a pupper out for Basic Obed because that's part of the fun of ownership.


----------



## angel519

She has some training by me and we couldnt be any closer than what we are. She still has seperation issues when I leave and no matter where I am in the house she is there with me even in the bathroom. But nobody is answering the question about crating her this late in her life. I think the bonding is established very well between us I just cant train her because of a foot injury.


----------



## GunnerJones

I would attemp to crate train, start by feeding in the crate w/ the door open, make her get her toys out of the crate, I'd really ease into it. I did a lot of training from a chair, no particular reason, just fat and lazy and didn't want to get too far from my beer. If you basic obed the other dogs you might be able to handle sit,down, stay, come, from a chair as well as the cute tricks.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee

What kind of training are we talking about? Basic obedience? If it's that, I agree with the others that it's best to NOT send your dog off. Not only do you not know what's going on with your dog, for obedience I've found that the leadership for our dogs to listen come from us (or not). So if I was having problems with my dog not listening to me, chances our it's also a problem with my leadership skills.

So sending her away to someone who is a great trainer and leader will definitely train my dog wonderfully. But when my dog comes back and I still am in the same role in her life, I would find her still not obeying and I just spent a fortune on training.

I know that the breed ring is so competitive and political that sendig a dog off to work with a good breed handler, and have that handler show can make a huge difference in getting points and Championships. So I can see why that's a good choice for some people.

That said, here's some info about crating an adult dog:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1694

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/crate1.html

http://www.siriusweb.com/AAD/crate.html

http://www.healthypet.com/library_view.aspx?ID=107


----------



## onyx'girl

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnar I did a lot of training from a chair, no particular reason, just fat and lazy and didn't want to get too far from my beer. I


I know this is just one example but...Everytime I read your posts I just have to laugh out loud!! I'll look for your posts to brighten my day!


----------



## Catu

If she has separation anxiety problems, sending her away will nothing but worsen the situation. Every fear she has about mom leaving forever every time she cross the door to go to the grocery store will become true if she feels you "abandon her" for three weeks (forever in a dog head).


----------



## onyx'girl

You should check out the book "The dog Listener" by Jan Fennell, It is so full of worthy information. There is a chapter on seperation, and why the dog acts the way it does. And everything in between!


----------



## IliamnasQuest

> Originally Posted By: angel519She has some training by me and we couldnt be any closer than what we are. She still has seperation issues when I leave and no matter where I am in the house she is there with me even in the bathroom. But nobody is answering the question about crating her this late in her life. I think the bonding is established very well between us I just cant train her because of a foot injury.


People are giving you their concerns on sending her away for training and that's as valid as the crate-training issue. I'll give you my thoughts on all of it.

You have a dog that has anxiety problems and is afraid to be separated from you. Your plan is to send her away to people who will keep her crated (probably most of the time, since training is usually no more than an hour total per day). So she's not only going to be away from you, but she's going to be severely confined. I would expect that she would NOT handle this well.

If you're sold on the concept of having her trained by these people, then teaching her to accept a crate before you send her away would be the best thing. However, it's very possible that this experience, whether you crate-train her or not, will change her in some ways. When a dog goes to someone for training and the owner isn't there to observe, there is NO way of knowing what is actually done to your dog. It doesn't sound like they're even set up properly (they have to keep her in a crate?). You run a huge risk of having her personality dampened or even changed by letting someone else do whatever they choose to do to her for three weeks.

Years ago I would take in an occasional dog for training but my criteria was that the owner had to either be physically unable to train the dog (one was an elderly man with a sick wife) or they had to be going away for a few weeks and planning on boarding the dog anyway (might as well get some training in during that time). If they didn't meet these criteria, I would recommend classes or private lessons because in all honesty, the long-term results were MUCH better if the owner was an active part of the training. I could teach these dogs all sorts of things, and show the owners how to use the same commands/signals etc., but in most cases the dogs lost a good part of what they learned because the owners just didn't have enough background to sustain the dogs' behaviors. It was far better for them to learn along with the dog.

You mentioned having a foot injury as being the reason for having your dog sent out for training. You can do a tremendous amount of training with little physical exertion and it may work out really well for you to have a private trainer come to you and help you train your dog. I have an auto-immune disease - rheumatoid arthritis - and when my chow pup was ten weeks old I flared up so badly that I couldn't lift my arms, couldn't close my hands around a leash, could barely walk and spent most of my time on pain pills and either laying in bed or sitting in an easy chair. But I kept a baggie of treats with me and I trained that pup to come when called, sit, down, stay, spin in circles, wave goodbye, cover her face with her paw, speak, back up, retrieve, etc. And on the days I could hobble around I taught her to walk on a loose leash and eventually to heel. It really wasn't as hard as it seemed it would be and all that training helped create a far tighter bond than just living with a dog does. I still struggle daily with pain and reduced mobility but it doesn't stop me from training my dogs. You just plain get better results if you do it yourself.

Best of luck to you and I hope that whatever you choose, it works out well.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


----------



## SuzyE

NO WAY!!!!!! Even when I took Paige to training class I made it very clear that NO ONE would handle my dog except me.Step away from the leash...
The Dog Listener is the best book EVER, get it today, it was at my library.
I am totally against having anyone(but you) train your dog.I am a pet sitter and a lot of folks ask me to train their dog. First I say I am not a dog trainer and then I tell them I can train your dog to listen to me, you have to train the dog to listen to you!Many of my clients dogs are great for me and not for them, dogs are smart.


----------



## Chris Wild

I agree with Melanie. Not only am I against sending a dog out for training in general, but this is the last thing a dog with separation anxiety issues needs.

Crate training is something you can do easiliy enough on you own. If you need help with further obedience traning, hiring someone to come into the home and work with you one-on-one, or taking some classes is the absolute best thing you can do. For the separation anxiety, the best fix is going to be to hire a behaviorist to come to your home and work with the two of you one-on-one. There are many causes of separation anxiety, and before you can fix it you need to identify it's root cause and work from there. That's something a good behaviorist will be able to help you with.


----------



## Chris Wild

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarHi Chris, what do you think about having a dog "finished"
> 
> I got the basic Obed rock solid and cute tricks thrown in as well but I really don't have the skills and experience to get things like bark and hold, bite work, etc


If your dog has the basic obedience, but you want him SchH titled, there is far more involved than "finishing". A very good traininer, with a very good dog, working the dog several times a day, every day, could perhaps teach the bitework and tracking in several months time. But for most it is going to take a year or two. That is if you want good balanced training, not a dog rushed through so he can squeak by at a trial, performing a set of exercises but without overall development and a true understanding of what he's doing.

Send your dog away to someone for 1-2 years and he becomes their dog. Yes, when you take him back he'll rebond to you eventually. But it will take a while and in most cases the bond will never be the same as if he'd stayed with you.

And of course, as was said, sending a dog away means you miss out on the most important part of the training: learning yourself, building the bond with your dog, and having fun together.



> Quote: I send my child out every day to get trained, he's still my child


A dog isn't a child. Dog's live in the now. Not the past, not the future. They also don't have the reasoning ability to understand what's happening. And a kid sent to school has not only had the first several years of his life with his family, but he also comes home every night, and throughout the entire experience he has the mental faculties to know where his home and family are and to understand school is just school. And even despite all that, most children still develop a strong bond with their schoolmates and friends, which in some cases and at some ages can rival what they have with their parents. And humans are much more capable of having different social relationships with different groups of people, unlike a dog who is genetically programmed to bond to the people he sees the most and the social group he spends the most time in.

Sending a dog off to be trained by someone else for a year or two is akin to sending your child to boarding school for his entire school career, seeing him only occasionally if at all. When that child comes home again as an adult, he's not going to be the same person you remember nor are you going to have the same relationship with him that you once had.


----------



## angel519

Thank you to everyone for there comments. I have decided to keep her here with me and find someone to help me teach her. I wasnt all that keen on sending her away and crating her. She is my best friend and the best dog I have had to date. Her personality is awsome and I dont want nothing to change that. That is why I decided to post this to get other opinions. Thanks agin. Now I need to find someone in my area to train with.


----------



## SuzyE

A victory, we have done it again folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## big_dog7777

> Originally Posted By: MaxGunnarHi Chris, what do you think about having a dog "finished"
> 
> I got the basic Obed rock solid and cute tricks thrown in as well but I really don't have the skills and experience to get things like bark and hold, bite work, etc


The main problem with sending your dog anywhere to be trained... ESPECIALLY IN BITEWORK is that the trainer makes money by showing results and wants to achieve that as quickly as possible. Teaching the bark and hold and establishing a proper foundation for bitework THE RIGHT WAY takes a lot of time. Teaching all of this using defense instead of prey takes much less time. It also makes many good dogs a bag of nerves on the field. The likelyhood that your dog would be yanked, cranked, pressured at least to the point that he's not having any fun and possible ruined is relatively high.


----------



## Liesje

My dog came to me trained in obedience and agility, but I started from square one. Why? Because for me training is part of the POINT of having a dog. It's fun for both of us, we bond, we learn how to communicate, etc. I spent weeks just reinforcing and proofing sits, stays, downs...all the basic stuff. It didn't matter how trained she was, I was a totally new person in a totally new environment, and we all know dogs don't really think outside of contexts that well. 

Friends and family have given me flack for spending so much time and money on training. To them, you take your dog through basic obedience and that's it. Me...I can't imagine not being in at least one training class at a time, no matter what level the dog is at. I prefer to take direction from experienced people I trust rather than call it good after a few levels of obedience or try and do it myself with books and DVDs. I don't care how much it costs, I really enjoy going to the training club 2-3 times a week. I don't have a cell phone, iPod, car payment, gym membership, tanning salon minutes....all those things other people like me usually have that I'd rather pass on so I can focus on training (read: spending time with) my dog. I love her and she's far too smart and too motivated to stop training after basic obedience or let someone else train her.

And finally, I want to do all of the training myself because for someone like me that's more of a newbie, the trainer is really training me how to train the dog. My trainer could train my dog for me, but how would I know how to command the dog or reinforce the dog? The trainer helps me train my own dog and is there for encouragement and guidance.


----------



## TacticalK9

I agree with LicanAntai...

i say if you send your pup away for 3 weeks to be trained you are asking for a mental scar...3 weeks is FOREVER for a dog...and they dont forget what you did!!!

plus how well do you know the people you are sending your dog to??? 

personally i wouldnt be able to cope with sending my pup away...i miss him when he spends the night at Gramma's house!!!


----------



## MikeB06

Angel519,

So what have you done about training? 

Here is my opinion on the issue. 

If your issues for training are about your dogs seperation anxiety behavior I can see by what you have written why your dog is having these issues. You have allowed this dog to do what it wants and it's temperament can't handle it. It need a leader in it's life. Not a drill seargent just a solid leader to define the rules and be consistant. A leader that won't think in human terms but in k-9 terms. When you allow it to sleep with you, follow you everywhere, think the dog will feel abandoned if sent to a trainer and be crated, and I am sure there are many more things you have done to set up this seperation anxiety to occure. 

I don't mean to be overly harsh here just truthful. 

I have been a pet dog trainer for 35 years and dogs aren't born with seperation issues, owners teach them how to become so dependent they can't be alone. 

Teaching your dog to be crated is very possible if taken slowly and with out human emotion. Teaching her to stay a short distance from you while you work in the house, go to the bathroom, cook etc. Using basic obedience command will build confidence in your dog. But all this is not going to work until you take the pack leader role and treat her as a dog. 

Working with a personal trainer will certinly give you the skills you need to gain the control over the seperation problem and work through it. 

If you can't find a trainer in your area please go to Sarah Wilson's My Smart Puppy message board and ask there. Many east coast trainers are there. http://familydog.yuku.com/directory


----------



## JenniferH

I want to quickly add my thoughts. I am by no means a dog expert and am currently in training with Bella. Over the holidays I had no choice but to board my dog. Luckily, my trainer also does boarding. I knew that Bella would be safe there and get lots of interaction with other dogs. She really needed to be with other pups! Bella was safe and I wasnt worried but boy was she a weirdo when she came home! She was there for a week. I called daily and got reports. Bella was so excited to see me and my hubby and daughter that she lost control and tried to jump and she was just ecstatic. The trainer corrected her for this and it pained me. I do understand why though. Bella needs to learn what is acceptable I guess. Anyways, it took a few days for her to get back in step at home. I almost thought I would have to take her to the vet because she just seemed out of sorts. I am glad I chose to train her myself with the help of someone experienced and not send her away from me. Shes back to normal and we seem closer than ever. I cant imagine sending her off to bond with someone else.


----------

