# eye coloring



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

ok I am having a dog of a time with the search function.

The standard specifies that dark eyes are to be preferred. Does anyone know why that is and what, if any, problems are associated with light eyes?

Most of the GSDs I have seen light eyes on are dark sables, btw, who have light brown eyes. And who also have good pigment elsewhere - skin, nails, mouth, nose, pads.............

I know, a standard is a standard is a standard. I get it. 
I am just asking why? Is it some frivolity or is there an underlying reason for it? 

The discussion is on PDB but I think it will go south because people get defensive - I think the OP wa asking faults are faults but which faults are worse faults (The suggestion to look at the Breed Survey Rules was good because it defined that any fault kicks you down,at best, to KKL2


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The only thing I remember hearing or reading was somewhere in Max's book him saying dark eyes appeared more intelligent and less feral. I'd suspect it really came down mainly to personal preference on the part of the breed founders. 

Possibly, part of the reasoning against light eyes was due to erroneous associations between light eyes and faulty pigmented dogs, similar to a misunderstanding between white and albino being a big part of why whites were disfavored. Blues and Livers have light eyes, so perhaps they though a light eyed dog carried the dilution genes? 

Medium brown eyes are perhaps not ideal, but are quite accepted and not a major fault and isn't going to knock a dog down a rating. The eyes have to be pretty light, getting to the point of more yellow than brown, before it becomes a major issue.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks for the insight.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have noticed that most of the longer/plush coats have a lighter eye coloring...anyone else see that too?


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Nope I have three coats and Lakota has the lightest eye which isn't that light at all.

I saw a picture once of really really light eyes on a very dark dog. The eyes were almost yellow, it was freaky looking.


----------



## travis_gsd27 (Nov 5, 2005)

My GSD has light eyes -they are pretty much yellow and very wolf like- [mind you he isnt the best bred GSD] and I have been told by a member on here that it is possible that he carries the dilute gene. 

Is there a possibility that light eyes can infact be linked to dilution genes?


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That is what I was wondering, but Grim has very dark pigment. His mouth is black inside, his skin is dark, nails, nose, etc. But his eyes are light. A lot of the other dogs like him have the lighter eyes. (Perhaps the Czechs did not care about that as much)

It is unsettling looking into them. I can gaze into the other dogs eyes his are more "intimidating" (but he isn't) - It is hard to be too intimidated by a dog walking around the hosue with a sock in his mouth.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I saw the yellow eyes on a dark dog and the sire to one of my dogs was a black and had light eyes, not to the yellow, but with the black face it really stood out.

So I don't think there is a connection between eye color and dilution of coat color.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Nancy, the eyes I saw were honestly yellow, I clicked to a website and those freaky eyes were what I saw on the page. It was spooky. The dog was for sale and I am sure was sold for breeding, but I would pass on that for a stud.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't think I've seen really yellow eyes on a GSD / just light brown - light enough to differentiate the pupil from the iris.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I thought I had save the picture or at least the name. I will check my other computer tommorow or this weekend to see if I have the picture.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.Tiger
> 
> So I don't think there is a connection between eye color and dilution of coat color.


It's one of those "all tigers are cats, but not all cats are tigers" things.

Blues and Livers have light eyes, that typically range from yellow to light brown. But not all dogs with light eyes are dilute, or carry dilute genes.

Years ago we had a solid black male, Odin, with yellow eyes. He looked every bit like a wolf, and being oversized with a pretty plush coat just added to the terrifying appearance. He was the sweetest lap dog ever, but those eyes were just freaky. Knowing his bloodlines and close relations quite well, we know there were no dilute genes in the mix. His littermates all had medium brown eyes, some a lighter brown, but his were the only ones that were yellow. Just a flukey thing.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

These dogs would earn a comment of "eyes should be darker" but wouldn't necessarily be considered to have "light eyes" Their eye color is acceptable and wouldn't be considered a major fault that would knock the dog down a notch in a breed survey.



















Unfortunately I don't have a photo of our old dog, Odin, to post an example of truly light eyes, but his were about the color of Travis'. Maybe even a little lighter.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

That is about how Grim's eyes are and many I have seen with light eyes. 

Someone posted this comment (quote below) on PDB
OBVIOUSLY the eyes and coat do NOT make the dog!
I would think you would not specifically breed for these things.
I cannot verify or deny but thought it was interesting :

"The great breeder Alfred Hahn of Busecker Schloss kennel who bred shepherd for infinity and produced some of the great GS in the history of the breed always asserted that he found a higher correlation of light eyes to better working dogs. He also felt that there was a higher percentage of working dogs that came from sables. The definition of this breed is a working dog by intent, so why would not either of these traits not be preferred or encouraged by top breeders. Afterall, isn't shepherd breeding working dog breeding"


----------



## iluvmyGSD (Jul 18, 2007)

hi nancy..
this is the OP on the PDB...thank you for trying to help me figure this out..
here is a pic of my dog everyone...the eyes im asking about...
<a href="http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb286/yourgoddess909/my%20pets/?action=view&current=bosscollage.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb286/yourgoddess909/my%20pets/bosscollage.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## iluvmyGSD (Jul 18, 2007)

shoot... i hit the submit button...
anyway, the same pic is on his pedigree, and the pedigree link is in my signature so you can click there if you would like to see the pic...im still tryin to figure out excatly how to put pics on here, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt...


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Those would definitely be considered "light eyes" and undesireable.

Though as far as faults go, that's a pretty *minor* fault.


----------



## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Here is an example of dark, medium sized, almond-shaped eyes the FCI Standard calls for.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Grimm, at 7 months, says "But don't YOU think the caramel-colored eyes are cute?!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

What about eyes darkening up with maturity - anyone have experience with that? Dena's eyes have always been dark, like Deejay's. Keefer's were noticeably lighter as a puppy, but now look exactly like hers. Here's a picture of the two of them together where you can see his eyes are lighter than hers:










He was 6-1/2 months old in that picture, she was exactly 18 months old. At 4-1/2 months old, this was taken in very bright sun so he's washed out, but you can see a distinct light brown circle around the iris:










.And here, she's two years old and he's just over a year old, their eyes are both dark brown:


----------



## denwil2007 (Apr 15, 2007)

There's a discussion like this on one of the show gsd boards. Quite a few folks have had experience with eyes darkening with age, around 2yrs old. Chase has light eyes like Keefer. I've noticed they are getting darker as he matures (very slowly). Neither the sire or dam had light eyes, or the littermates I've seen.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Great tatoo as well CM!

















I have a black and a black sable (Csabre - above - I think! I got the right code!) who share a sire, they appear to have lighter eyes too. I have noticed alot of dogs with Xento Maineiche whose eyes are not as dark as you'd like! I did ask Herr Scheld if he would penalize Csabre for her eye color, and he sort of did the "pshaw" noise, and said "look at her (color/pigment) - who cares about the eyes, they are minor"...so I think it is more the overall picture, and light eyes may be more of a detriment when accompanying a faded pigment on the dog.

Lee


----------



## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

The Color of the eyes is only one part of the "Eye Standard" also the size and shape.
But if the light eyes are Big and Round shaped this would be a major fault.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Dark eyes here, Dante is mostly showlines


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Grim and his light eyes - dark sable


----------



## travis_gsd27 (Nov 5, 2005)

Travs eyes would Im sure be a major fault [along with just about everything else about him] I still think his eyes are just gorgeous. They are so full of life and character and Ive never been one for showing so it never bothered me that I have a dog that would likely be booed out of the show ring. 

He has the lightest eyes Ive ever seen on a GSD. I'd be interested to see lighter eyes such as the yellow ones that were discussed.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Cassidys mom, I know it is off topic but I love those dirty dawg pictures ............


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Slider (left) and his evil spawn (Bruiser - right) have nice dark eyes.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Nancy JCassidys mom, I know it is off topic but I love those dirty dawg pictures ............










I have LOTS of those, they do love to get dirty! Actually, they are pretty clean in the one of both of them together, we were at the beach and they were just sopping wet from playing in the water. The one of Keefer by himself - he was COVERED in mud, lol! I think that was his first real experience with mud, and apparently he approved! 

This is the same day, and still one of my favorite picture of him:










Needless to say, he got a bath at Mudpuppy's before going home!

Lee, you're right - I never noticed until you pointed it out, but Dena's tattoo is so nice and clear in that shot!


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Our boy Leo is a shelter find and I'm sure a mill or BYB product, and he has really light eyes. 

You can see Grace's in the background are much darker.



















I know they're out of standard but I think they're beautiful. I would certainly have nothing to do with a breeder who was trying to breed for something out of standard but when they kick up as a flukey thing, I think they're neat and, as it's a purely cosmetic fault, there's no harm in them. I would have LOVED the dog Chris was describing; I think that's the wildlifer in me! 

Rotties have something similar in their standard preferring dark eyes. When they kick out light eyes they're called "hawk eyes." Of course, I think they're cool looking too!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Nancy JGrim and his light eyes - dark sable


Sorry-he's perfect. 
Signed-the Grim Stalker

Former foster's freaky light eyes! I would say let me see your eye BALLS! and she'd look up at me (more fun than the word look). She was very confident about making eye contact with people and it was disconcerting to some. Fun dog!


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

And then there is the total satisfaction 'no eye' look as a pup pacifies himself with his toy...


----------



## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

It looks like he pacified himself on a bit more than his toy lol


----------



## LuvsDieter (Feb 2, 2006)

Dieter's dark eyes are one of my favorite features. They are so dark that you can barely see the pupil in the middle. I think they look the color of dark chocolate!

Tried to find some good eye photos, but most are washed out from the flash or have alien eyes. Here's the best I've got:


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Well, to be fair...I think he has lovely eyes when he opens them..


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Strauss, being a great example of a dog with a really nice dark eye, and crappy pigment









Ranger being an example of a dog with excellent pigment, but lighter eyes (lighter than Mouse's anyway xD)


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

What a lovely coat Strauss has.. density and texture, it looks luxurious to the touch! You are doing such a great job in caring for him. He looks super!


----------



## Ceph (Mar 28, 2007)

Ruby actually has pretty dark eyes as well...










Jay, my Liver mutt has slightly lighter eyes...but not much...they're also almost more red than brown...it took me a while to realize he was lier because I always thought livers had light eyes. : 










~Cate


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Cate, your boy's not liver. Liver dogs don't have black pigment.







He's sable!! He looks a bit like my mutt, Risa, actually (she's a bit darker sable though).


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Hee, thanks! Those were taken this summer, right after a bath (I always take pics of him right after he's been bathed).

You wouldn't want to see his coat now though...winter does terrible things to it. Chewed a couple holes in that nice pelt of his >.<

The big one that he put right in the middle of his back is closing up nicely...the one on his rump has a ways to go.

By the way, can I have Grimm? LOL!


----------



## Ceph (Mar 28, 2007)

His nose isnt black though - if you look at the two of them together, his nose is actually brown  It's hard to tell in the pictures of them seperate..but looking at their noses right next to each other...you can def. tell his nose his brown.

~Cate


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Still looks black to me. Got any pictures of the two of them next to each other? I know Risa looks solid black to most people until you put her next to a solid black dog, but she still has black pigment. I've never seen a liver dog with a nose so dark that it's almost indistinguishable from black. Blue dogs I have. Liver is usually really easy to tell cuz they look like Chocolate Labs.


----------



## Ceph (Mar 28, 2007)

lol - its really hard to tell on the pictures but maybe this will help :

I applied the same filters to the two pictures : 



















You can kind of tell there his nose is a different color.

Unfortunatley, with him...its just really hard to tell in the pictures because he is dark...but there is NO black at the tips of his fur either...and he's got a mask...but it is brown...not black as it should be on an undiluted dog. I might be wrong...but his nose just isnt the same kind of Black that Ruby's is...even in the snow pictures if you look closely you can tell his is more brown.

~Cate


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

It's even tougher to tell with the filter on there. Especially since there's next to no contrast on Ruby's nose in her pic.







If they were in the same photo together, it'd be easier to compare. And you would know it's not a trick of the lighting or anything because both subjects would be in the same lighting (unless you put one in the shade and one in the sunlight). 

Some things are just really hard to capture in photographs. I'm not doubting you--I just want to see it for myself since he doesn't look like a liver to me. What about his paw pads?


----------



## Ceph (Mar 28, 2007)

I can get a picture on tuesday...lol...i remember my camera this weekend, but I forgot the reader to put it on the computer 

but if you put their paws up together, hers are definetley black and his are definetley not the same color 

~Cate


----------



## im4dogz (Dec 10, 2006)

Dark eye for Chase, not the darkest, but dark.









ETA: Wasn't the best example as the sun made them look lighter, here's a pic in the shade.


----------



## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

I feel like Keilan's eyes are getting lighter? Interesting that you guys are noticing that your dog's are getting darker. I guess we will just have to see!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Hey Anne-zyp*



> Originally Posted By: zypAnd then there is the total satisfaction 'no eye' look as a pup pacifies himself with his toy...


I have no clue how I missed this photo - It MUST be added to the funniest picture thread.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: light eyes*

My dog has very light eyes. People are afraid of her because of that. 
There was no sun when I took the first picture.


----------

