# How un/acceptable is stranger aggression?



## APBTLove

In the GSD breed, I mean. 
These dogs are guardians, within the breed standard (not the show dogs.. bred for looks not for the origina purposes for the most part) how unacceptable is aggression towards strangers?

This is only my opinion, and not an educaed opinion at that.. but my old GSD, to me, was what I'd consider 'just right' in the stranger aggression area. If you came in his yard without being invited, you would be bitten. If you came at him or his family aggressively, you'd be backed down really fast or bitten if you were a threat. If I let you in my house or yard he was at ease and would let you pet him, play with him etc. One woman leaned over and kissed his head before I could tell her not to and his reaction was to grin and wag his tail. 

But as I said, if you threatened his territory or family he would not play games.. 

He didn't need a muzzle at the vet, he loved kids and was fine with strangers if I was there, he could go anywhere with me until he died at 16-17. 

To me he was a great dog, he did his job well and he was smart enough to know I was the leader and he was able to relax and take the backseat while I was there.

But with other breeds, like APBTs, biting a human for any reason - unless it's extreme - is enough to warrant a one-way trip into the woods. That's just their breed 'rules' on HA. 

So, what is acceptable within the GSD breed regarding aggression towards people(in your opinion, or set standards)?

This is just something I've been pondering for a few days, and what better place to discuss it?


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## atravis

A dog should be 100% neutral to strangers unless an active threat is present.

Any dogs who lunges at and tries to bite someone just because they approach you in a huffy manner is either severely untrained, or unstable. These dogs should NOT default to attacking. Attacking/biting is a last ditch effort for safety. Even in trained protection dogs, they should not react unless ordered to do so, or if the handler has been rendered incapable of commanding and is in eminent danger. 

Territorial aggression is with limitations. A dog should not attack a small child chasing a ball into your yard, simply because they are on your property and were not invited. The dog should have enough sense to know the difference.

ETA- and if I may make a quick comment on APBTs: these ARE dogs who posses a good amount of defensive drives in the right situations. I get sick and tired of hearing all this "take them out back behind the woodshed" business. Yes, a dog who attacks unprovoked or is overly sharp is dangerous and wrong for the breed... but being protective of their family is NOT.

People have been trying to paint the breed as the doofus, lovebug, never hurt a fly breed for so long, that I think people are actually doing them a disservice in some resections. Its not like I don't get WHY they are doing it, but a correct APBT absolutely WILL attack if his family is threatened, and will do so very effectively. They are lovable, more gregarious than most breeds capable of protection, but are NOT pushovers who will take something serious lightly.

I wish Cain was still around. She was friends with a man who trained his Pitty girl in personal protection. This same dog would later go on to break the arm of a man who tried to break into her home. Good dog.


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## Good_Karma

This is a great question. I've always felt that Niko was too bark-y at strangers. He has always had the same reaction to meeting new people: barking, barking, avoidance, barking, cautious sniff, barking, bolder sniff, eat treats, sniff, allow petting, new friend. He has never been a dog who though everyone should be his new friend.

I have no idea what he would do if a person came into our property while we were gone, that situation doesn't happen in our lifestyle. I highly doubt he would bite, he's never given any indication of biting (although I realize that is no guarantee).

Niko is definitely NOT neutral though.


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## APBTLove

I don't know. I am pretty oldschool I suppose when it comes to this type of thing and I don't see a problem with this breed biting someone univited in their yard. 

Yep, I agree with most you said there. A dog should not bite someone for approaching or a person who is a non-threat. MY old boy did know the difference between adults and kids, he scared the living crap out of a boy who hopping out fence trying to take my dog's football, but he did not even snarl at him. He knew better instincively. 

I think the situations you said, protecting the family ifrom a real threat or being trained to be a PP dog, are not the same as a manbiter for any breed at all. A dog who will just bite because someone bent down next to them or walked past, or just out of nowhere. And a ton of APBT (since you mentioned it) owners DO kill their dogs for unwarranted aggression or signs of instability. I know several bull breeds in PP, that's (JMO) not the same as unprovoked HA.


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## APBTLove

Good_Karma said:


> This is a great question. I've always felt that Niko was too bark-y at strangers. He has always had the same reaction to meeting new people: barking, barking, avoidance, barking, cautious sniff, barking, bolder sniff, eat treats, sniff, allow petting, new friend. He has never been a dog who though everyone should be his new friend.
> 
> I have no idea what he would do if a person came into our property while we were gone, that situation doesn't happen in our lifestyle. I highly doubt he would bite, he's never given any indication of biting (although I realize that is no guarantee).
> 
> Niko is definitely NOT neutral though.


I've never had a dog who would be 100% neutral to a stranger coming in their home or yard univited.. Right down to the schnauzers and pomeranian mutts. It's in a dog's nature to be territorial, there are exceptions, but you can't deny that. 

The GSD I have right now doesn't accept strangers, he just doesn't and that's who he is. I don't like his temperament but I manage him.

My old lady Dutch would bark her head off at strangers who were walking by or came in, but she woulnd't bite them unless they were hurting her or her family.


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## atravis

Allow me to elaborate-

100% neutral to being APPROACHED by strangers, on neutral ground. As in, you are on a walk with your dog, someone comes up to you and starts talking. Dog's reaction should preferably be indifferent, at worst friendly, but NOT overly dodgy and sharp, and willing to bite.

Most dogs will bark and alert if someone strange comes onto your property- of course, that is natural for most breeds, not the least of which the GSD.


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## MaggieRoseLee

atravis said:


> Allow me to elaborate-
> 
> 100% neutral to being APPROACHED by strangers, on neutral ground. As in, you are on a walk with your dog, someone comes up to you and starts talking. Dog's reaction should preferably be indifferent, at worst friendly, but NOT overly dodgy and sharp, and willing to bite.
> 
> Most dogs will bark and alert if someone strange comes onto your property- of course, that is natural for most breeds, not the least of which the GSD.


I agree. :thumbup:


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## JakodaCD OA

Masi is starting to mature out, and I see a big difference in things with her. For example, she will bark if she's in the house and someone comes to the door, (my aussies are usually REALLY barking,),,she isn't going bonkers, but normally she's very quiet..Person comes in, doesn't matter WHO it is, stranger, axe murderer (I'm kidding) someone she knows,,she is perfectly fine with them , "come on in",,don't think I can count on her when it comes to guarding the house or property

In public, a different matter, she can be suspicious, but IS 100% neutral, she is very indifferent to strangers, happy to sit there and "watch", if I stop to talk to someone.
Whereas, younger, she was a little "iffy", someone approach she tended to be a little growly and on high alert. 

I once had a guy approach me that I knew, (she didn't) and he was flailing his arms and coming on STRONG,,before I knew it, she was doing a major 'bark & hold" on the guy, and I mean she was right into him, doing this bark and hold, I immediately 'downed' her and recalled, which she complied with. Told her to "leave it" and it was done, she was still really keeping an eye on this guy.

Now, if someone does this, (i've tested her a few times), and I tell her to leave it, as I approach, she does just that..but will keep a good eye on them..

So, in the end, I didn't get her for a guard dog or property protector, and she really isn't, altho I have no real way of knowing, since it's never been tested. I absolutely do not mind that she is what she is in public, aloof, but watchful, minds her own business.

Unfortunately I do see alot of dogs that are highly reactive towards people/other dogs out in public, and no I don't think it's acceptable as well as being a major liability. Training? Genetics? Most likely both. 

I also dont want a "cujo" biting anyone that walks on my property or in my house.


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## Zoeys mom

Zoe is 100% fine outdoors and with people she knows well- they could just walk in and she will bark, but with tail wagging. However, if your a newer guest she has to be crated...especially if you go near my kids or stairs. She sees the upstairs where our bedrooms are as her families space only. It's a major issue being we have children in and out of our home daily though it's nice to know if an axe murderer came in she'd be on them in a second. I guess it depends on the handler and what they want from their dog ultimately. All my dobes would bite a stranger if they just walked in but were fine with guests if we allowed them in and thats personally what I want. A dog that respects when I allow someone in the home and bites before asking questions when I don't


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## rvadog

atravis said:


> but a correct APBT absolutely WILL attack if his family is threatened, and will do so very effectively. They are lovable, more gregarious than most breeds capable of protection, but are NOT pushovers who will take something serious lightly.



I have to disagree with you here. These dogs should have very little defensive drive and if they bite a person that breaks skin they should be put down.

I don't know how much you know about dog fighting but I know quite a bit. It took a very stable dog to be in the middle of a fight for its life and be grabbed from behind and not bite. This is what was expected from Pits.

Pits should not be viewed as a protective breed. They should happily accept all people and I would almost consider a pit that was neutral to strangers to have a fault. I want pits that love everyone.


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## gagsd

atravis said:


> 100% neutral to being APPROACHED by strangers, on neutral ground. As in, you are on a walk with your dog, someone comes up to you and starts talking. Dog's reaction should preferably be indifferent, at worst friendly, but NOT overly dodgy and sharp, and willing to bite.


This assumes the handler/owner is not giving the dog signs. 
I am very "reactive" to being approached by strangers.... either jumpy genetics or past experience or a combination. The second, and I mean the millisecond, that I feel fear, my dog(s) will react aggressively. It travels right to them. 
That is one reason why basic obedience is so important for me and my dogs.


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## APBTLove

atravis said:


> Allow me to elaborate-
> 
> 100% neutral to being APPROACHED by strangers, on neutral ground. As in, you are on a walk with your dog, someone comes up to you and starts talking. Dog's reaction should preferably be indifferent, at worst friendly, but NOT overly dodgy and sharp, and willing to bite.
> 
> Most dogs will bark and alert if someone strange comes onto your property- of course, that is natural for most breeds, not the least of which the GSD.


OH okay, I'm sorry we had a misunderstanding - I took what you said wrong.

I agree with this. The dog I've based my first posting on as an example was not defensive or worried about people on neutral grounds. He was curious and interested in them, but not ever aggressive to a human outside of his home that was not an obvious threat - I.E someoen walking up and giving me a hug, talking loud and boisterous, he couldnt' care less. But when a man came up to me shouting and angry (I am nearly positive he was on drugs because I never met him in my life) and his body language was very aggressive the dog went on defense, he barked and stood his ground, and I am positive if the man had came at us, he would have tried to bite.



I agree with most of what you said RVAdog, but oh please let's not turn this into an APBT temperament debate LOL

Maybe you can make a thread about it in the lounge.. I've been told this area is only for GSD discussions.


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## paulag1955

I'd be very disturbed if I felt my dog might bite someone merely for entering my property. Entering my house uninvited, well, that would be different.


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## APBTLove

paulag1955 said:


> I'd be very disturbed if I felt my dog might bite someone merely for entering my property. Entering my house uninvited, well, that would be different.


Not to a dog, they usually don't descern the difference of outside or inside if it's their territory.. 

Defending their property is what animals do. They USUALLY don't stop and think with logic "Well, this here UPS guy running to my door might be a threat, he might not.." the dog will likely act, they go on instinct not thought. 

An animal, all a dog is, knows there is something in their territory they don't know, it's only natural for them to try to scare this 'threat' away by an act or display or aggression or to physically beat it down to make it leave. 

No, a lot of dogs don't have the instict to protect property and don't give a hoot if a strange person comes in without invitation, but it's natural.


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## APBTLove

Another question to you guys.

What would you euthanize a dog for? A German Shepherd dog to be more precise.. What temperamental flaw or instability would make the dog a candidate for euthanasia in your opinion?

I take it case by case.. With Jaeger, my current GSD, he is aggressive to all strangers.. man, woman, child. He is predictable and I know his temperament and what to expect, therefore it's easy to manage. But I have euth'd dogs in the past for instability.


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## Chicagocanine

APBTLove said:


> I've never had a dog who would be 100% neutral to a stranger coming in their home or yard univited.. Right down to the schnauzers and pomeranian mutts. It's in a dog's nature to be territorial, there are exceptions, but you can't deny that.



Even my typical-loves-everyone Golden would bark at people who entered/approached our house or property uninvited.


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## Emoore

APBTLove said:


> Another question to you guys.
> 
> What would you euthanize a dog for? A German Shepherd dog to be more precise.. What temperamental flaw or instability would make the dog a candidate for euthanasia in your opinion?


I'm assuming we're talking about euthanizing for behavior here and not for health/medical reasons. 

That said, I've had to euthanize a foster dog who was a fear biter. She bit two people while in my care, both without any warning. She was lying quietly and these people (both men) walked near where she was lying and she lashed out and bit them. In addition she couldn't be crated, would injure herself in a crate and lost her mind when left alone. Poor girl.


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## JakodaCD OA

I would euth any dog that attacked a person for no reason, with the intent of doing some physical damage.


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## Zoeys mom

I would only euth a dog for behavioral reasons if they bit me, my dh, or my kids for no reason, and it was an actual bite. If they were injured or sick probably not, but an unprovoked bite of a family member would force me to consider euthanasia especially if the bite did not come with a warning...those are the biters that worry me the most. My GSD can not be trusted with guests and though she hasn't bitten she would if not managed. She is crated when any guest is over before they hit the door these days because though she gives fair warning I don't want her to even get to that threshold where she feels the need to warn.


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## JKlatsky

APBTLove said:


> Another question to you guys.
> 
> What would you euthanize a dog for?


Interesting question. And I assume you mean only as it relates to temperament.

Hard to say. For me, with my personal dogs (not general population) I think *unpredictability* would have to close to the top of the list. It's very hard to manage a dog that has no consistency to their behavior. It's one thing if you KNOW the dog does not like kids, or men. It's easier then to manage their world and to work on training the behavior. But a dog that's fine one minute and then goes beserk the next? I'd have to say there's a screw loose. Fear biters for me often fall in this category.

True Handler Aggression would be a deal breaker for me. Not the dog that is conflicted and over-driven and has to bite something but the dog that really wants to eat the handler. There are some bad ass rank driven dogs out there who will go after their handlers for top position. I have been bitten by my own dogs before, but usually it was a bite where I said to myself "Stupid. My bad." I will not own a dog that scares me- and it takes a fair amount to really scare me. 

Severe Separation Anxiety. Again far end of the spectrum- the sort that break their jaws trying to eat through crates, go through windows to escape, etc. This is a doggy mental illness that is almost impossible to deal with for the majority of people...since we all leave the house at one point or another. Others may not agree but that kind of mental anguish is no kind of life for a dog. 

For general population- I do agree with many shelters opting to euthanize dogs that show human aggression- fear or otherwise. Can many of them be trained out of it or properly managed? Probably. Can you ensure that the adopter that thinks Fido is cool looking and should come home is that kind of dog owner? Probably not.


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## APBTLove

I liked your answers.. For me, it will be case-by-case.. with personal dogs. 

Jaeger is stranger-aggressive, he is predictable. He's never shown signs of instability with me or the few people in his 'circle'. 

One dog I killed (to put it bluntly) due to behavior was a rescue, she had severe separation anxiety where she was shaken for a while even after you got back.. She ruined crates. She was in true anguish. Mental misery. 

She lunged at and tried to bite a girl's face that she had previously known and played with and loved on.. She did not ever fully trust me even after over a year of near-constant interaction and training. She would also redirect on me out of frustration..

That was 1-2% of the time.. Otherwise she was an amazing girl.


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## atravis

I'll never say never.

But personally, I would not euth a dog just because it had issues, or because it bit me, or tired to bite someone else.

Someone, some PERSON, created those issues, even if the dog was born with them. Someone bred those dogs, after all, or someone allowed those dogs to breed. Even rescued strays exist because SOMEONE, at some point in time, didn't care enough to keep their unaltered dog contained.

I find it hard to blame an animal for human error.

Dog's a fear biter? Can be fixed. HAS been fixed, with dogs far worse than what many people would consider "extreme". 

Separation anxiety? Again, manageable through extremely strict routine-based training, and possibly mild sedatives if it came down to that. 

Unprovoked aggression? MOST aggression is provoked, even if we, the almighty human, do not understand it or tolerate it. 

For the VERY rare dog, who is genuinely nutty, truly has a screw loose and can NEVER be fixed, through any kind of training... I can understand euthanasia. 

But most problems can be fixed (or at least managed), despite what we like to think.


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## PupperLove

It's a tough call where I would draw the line. If my dog was unpredictable, and I thought he was truly a threat to people, whether they are strangers or not, I would not risk being sued or losing our home over that. If he was lashing out at people, snapping at them or lunging, I would not feel comfortable having him in my home and having that stress on my shoulders.

I don't think it is ever ok for any dog of any breed to bite a person. This shows that the dog cannot distinguish between true danger, or not, which is dangerous for everyone who comes into contact with the dog. However, if someone is a _true_ threat, then the dog has every right to defend itself or it's family.


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## rvadog

Severe fear biters.

Puppies (less than 6wks) that show extreme fear reactions.

That's about it for me.


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## APBTLove

Unfortunately Travis I felt she was a danger.. this girl she'd known for a long time was just standing there, the dog went from being happy to see her to very narrowly missing her face because I grabbed her.. There were other incidents, but this was the most unsettling because I have a niece here that I feared for that this dog had known just as long as the girl she tried to maul. There was no warning. 

This is another example of shelters pushing dogs on people, it said on her card "No kids/aggressive" but it was crossed out, because they tested her again and all was fine, they said she must have been playing. They should have euth'd her then, they had too many other dogs who passed with flying colors to keep a bull breed with HA alive, then adopt it to someone who has kids in and out of the home.. It's a shame. but she had a wonderful last year of her life.

It's very true I could have crated her when we had company like I do J, but the difference is J has never shown instabilities with my niece or the family he's accepted.


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## amaris

I don't have a gsd yet, but if i could pick my ideal level of agression, i would want a dog that's 100% neutral to anyone he meets on neutral ground and in my backyard (we have kids in the neighbourhood and i wouldn't put it above one of them to climb into the backyard, and cats live next door who wander over all the time etc), one that would alert whenever anyone entered the house that wasn't family but would only be agressive if it were a stranger entering without permission and (this might be wishful thinking) from the wrong door (like backdoor or garage or through a window as opposed to the front door), that would only bite anyone if that person showed agression or otherwise negative behavior...haha that's my ideal anyway...

as for PTS, i think only unwarranted, unwarned agression towards people he was familiar with (friends or family) and if the dog's quality of life was in a terrible state though physical or mental issues....


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## debbiebrown

i don't think you ever can cure a nervous fear bitter 100% its just something that in them......they can be conditioned, worked with etc, but something that always has to be closely monitored........

i have one of those, he's just not a friendly dog with strangers, is perfectly happy not interacting with them...........he was 100% socialized from day one, classes, people with treats everywhere etc.......he's 2 1/2 now and still in classes around people etc and is still very apprehensive of strange people approaching him and their movements.......its called lifetime management which alot of people find to be way to much work and it is a huge liability.......i am one of those who decided to keep a dog like this and try to work with it...........
In classes this dog will do anything i ask, is awesome at OB, tracking, agility etc, but is very leery of people getting to close to him especially approaching him head on...........he's better standing beside them, but is not interested in people touching him.........he's great with us, we can do anything to him.........
i've worked VERY hard with him and have become a huge opportunist where he's concerned trying to get him to a better place........it is what it is.........
so, i have had to reverse some of the standard training with him, one being teaching him to get behind me in situations he's uncomfortable with....standard rule is don't let your dog hide behind you, but with him this is what i want him to do when he's unsure, and i will handle the situation........
none of us seek a dog like this, and not alot of people would keep a dog like this, certainly understandable because it puts a huge crimp in your lifestyle and a lifetime of constant training, exposure, etc........
i have worked hard with some dog friends in building trust between him and them, i have to use people that will do what i say in close contact, he has built trust with them, and has progressed there and will let them play ball with him, take food from them, and accept their presence........long, long process indeed..........
in club training he is not great in small inclosed rooms, so i have to work him accordingly with enough space between people....................Focus is a must, which has been a long process with him, but thats coming........goal is for him to focus on me not the threat..........only people that have had to deal with a dog like this can fully understand the process........
i think if he had a choice he'd flee in most cases, but if he felt he couldn't and someone approached him he would definitely bite.........
in choosing to keep a dog like this, you have to keep them safe, be responsible in training extreme Obedience and leadership........i don't think a dog like this has to be PTS, but it takes the right owner to ensure the dog is handled properly and the right steps are taken in training, conditioning, etc.......


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## APBTLove

Debbie, what you described your boy as - he sounds VERY close in temperament to mine.

If dogs like him and J were in the average pet owner hands.. they would likely be the next GSD mauling on the news. Not many people are willing to manage and work a dog like them.

I understand what you do every day with a dog like him. 

My boy will NOT be touched by strangers.. he can stand next to them, put himself on them, and walk with them on a good day. On a better day I can have a stranger sit on the floor and rub his belly (J's safe spot.. lol), on a bad day J is a wreck with strangers, if he sees one 100' off it's on. 

It's an adventure every day..


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## Lilie

I have a Golden with a mental short in his brain. He isn't your typical Golden. My vet did suggest him to be PTS. If I am uncapable of controlling his behavior and his enviroment then I would follow through with what the vet suggested. 

My GSD is aloof and not overly friendly. However, he is well socialized. If he is in the back yard, and someone comes into the yard uninvited they will be bitten. If fact, if the Golden and GSD are together at the time, I suspect it would make national news. We are in the country, therefore not likely a child will come wondering up and enter the back yard. I also have a hot wire running above my fence so not likely someone will hop the fence to get into the back yard. I control their enviroment. 

However, if I am home and with the stranger - the Golden will bring his ball, and the GSD will greet and allow them to pet him. But he wont be, and never has been a waggy butt kind of dog.


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## JustMeLeslie

My Victor is exactly how you all describe. It is like he is not wired right in the head. He comes from Czech and American/German showlines. He only accepts two people myself and my husband. He is extremely people aggressive. I need to know how to manage him or if I even can. I don't know what to do with him anymore. Here are my other posts on this subject.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/147050-aggressive-people.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru.../147312-progess-victor-people-aggressive.html


How do I manage him when I have other animals to take care of? He takes up all my time. I love this dog. I don't have the resources that a lot of others have. I live far in the country. I can't hire a behaviorist to come to my home to help. I only have vets that I can go to. Can I control him with behavior meds? I know he is a huge liability. I just at this point don't know if this is something I can manage. I am running out of options for him. 

What is concerning me now is that he is starting to show aggression with another one of my other dogs that he has been with since he got here. He bit her in her face. It seems his aggression is getting worse. I need help.


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## Jax08

I don't feel stranger aggression is acceptable unless there is a threat. People should be able to walk into my house without fear of being bitten. What is I'm unconscious on the floor and it's an EMT coming in? Jax would let them in. She might check them out, but she would let them in. The oldest boxer would not. I actually consider her dangerous in that situation because she would go in attack mode and take the pack with her.

Jax allows people to walk into our house now. The boxers will rush, barking, at the person while Jax hangs back and checks it out. Then she will go see the person. Last week, I was in the bath and home alone. A person that works for DH came to the door but did not knock. The boxers ran to the door making all sorts of racket. Jax came into the bathroom and woofed at me to let me know someone was there.

The only strangers in public I've seen Jax react to are people who stare at her for an extended period of time. She will bark and lunge at them. Anyone else is off her radar unless they are acting funny. Then she will watch them, possibly bark at them. Toddlers and little kids...hmmm...her whole personality changes. She's very gentle and they are the only ones that hold her attention for longer than 30 seconds. She has no interest in adults. Smell, sniff, sniff and turn away. She's not avoiding...she just doesn't care.


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## debbiebrown

APB,
yes, your right about these dogs being in the wrong hands, it happens all the time, very sad.........
i am starting a new combo with Sam will let you know how it works..........the Thunder shirt has been used for fearful, nervous, axious dogs and other dog issues, i am getting one and also adding Bach Flower remedy to the mix, along with continued training, at this point we need something more to take the edge off to progress..........i will let you know how we do.........
Moral support is another huge booster, from people that understand...........so, keep trucking!


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## APBTLove

I will keep up with your progress, Debbie. I've totally accepted J for who he is, but anything that can help is more than welcome.


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## debbiebrown

Good for you for excepting him for what he is........thats half the battle...........
i will definitely keep you posted...........


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## JustMeLeslie

I was recommended a thundershirt for Victor. I am going to give it a try also. I am going to try anything I can to help Victor(extremely people aggressive). I hope it works.


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## JakodaCD OA

leslie debbie above is the one I was telling you that's interested in trying the shirt to She has a dawg who she's had 'people probs' with, maybe you two can share some ideas)


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## Zoeys mom

I just a DAP plug in for Zoe. It looks like a glade plug in but is unscented of course. Anyway it is supposed to help with aggression, fear, barking, thunderstorms, and other things that make a dog reactive. It emits the same pheromones lactating doggy mama's produce and is supposed to calm and soothe them without medication for reactivity. You have to buy a refill every 30 days and it says it takes about 90 days to show it's full effect but it's worth a shot

Here's a link on them Comfort Zone® Plug-In for Dogs - Stress Control


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## debbiebrown

hey, every dog is different, so alot of good suggestions here...........just remember these things aren't miracle cures, there is still behavior training involved.........

The Thunder shirt is sort of like the Therapy wraps but cheaper, and has to be introduced to the dog while he is calm the first few times so they associate the T-shirt with being calm........


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## Zoeys mom

Yes our behaviorist recommended the DAP emitter and meds. We're starting with the plug in since the veterinarian behaviorist has a 3 month wait


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## Rodimus80

I am currently on my first GSD named Dante. He is intact and 9 months old. He will not tolerate strangers on the property or in the house. I use a prong collar and it is working wonders. I also take daily walks with him off lease at a local park which is basically about 100 acres of woods. We bump into people all the time on the trail and he will give them a bark when he first see's them and then come back to me. When we are walking the streets he will not bark. But then reading the dogs body language comes second nature to me so my corrections are right on queue. I'm writing off his fearful behavior as a phase which he will grow out of the more experiences he has. Summer is just around the corner and he will be socialized on a daily basis. Other then his behavior when people come over, I have no complaints.


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## Nova&Uschi'sMom

We definitely have an odd-duck of a GSD. Our older boy is friendly to the point that not only will he happily let anyone into our house at anytime, he'd probably show them where the best valuables are to in the hopes of making a new friend. If push came to shove though, I like to think that he'd reveal some real GSD protective traits. We've added a new puppy to the mix, so it will be interesting to see how she turns out with him as her role model.


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## debbiebrown

i totally agree with a GSD being neutral in situations........and stable enough to know a threat from a non threat situation. mostly any sharp aggressive dog is genetically made up that way. it can be managed but a real liability for sure.

i have a gsd like this, been socialized since 12 weeks old, in obedience classes, agility, tracking........took him to every shopping ctr parkinglot and store every place i could think of with people, dogs etc. genetically he is very shy sharp, the worst trait there is. he has gotten better with age and alot of work, but i do not trust him 100% he is suspicious and does not trust people. he would definitely nip someone if i wasn't careful and he was in the right situation. in his case genetics did not give him a stable balance. i chose to keep him and work and manage him, alot of people would have PTS. its something i would never do again, but i have given him every opportunity most would not. he has a chance to be a normal dog in his training. he's an awesome tracker and i was told he could never do it, that he wasn't a working dog. most people don't have the time or dedication or determination to work with this. i put my time in with him and i have gotten it back in doing so, But, one of these in a lifetime is enough, wouldn't do it again.

i also agree that if a dog bites the owner or someone else for no reason, it is definitely a reason to consider PTS. i think you have to look at alot of things here.............is it genetics, Can anything be done to work with the dog, Is this the right home for the dog, etc. because i have seen complete turn around in dogs put in the right inviroment. alot of things come into play.


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## Rodimus80

I have also noticed with my 9 month GSD that if someone approaches us who also has a dog my GSD will almost immediatly accept them. He won't sit there and let a new person pet him, but he also won't bark at them nonstop. He's too busy trying to play with the other dog. So if I know a person has a dog I ask them to bring the dog because in my mind that other dog can communicate with my GSD better then a human.


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## vickip9

I totally don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have been in mental anguish the past 2 weeks as a result of an incident that happened with my GSD pertaining to aggression. 

My dog is normally a lover. He loves everyone! Literally. I can take him to Home Depot or the pet store and anyone can just walk right up to him and start petting him, patting him, giving him hugs, etc. I'm not even kidding. He loves practically everyone. Now, don't get me wrong, he will bark when people knock on my door, and he has barked at a couple of people who startled him (we were walking at night and a runner came up behind us and another time someone was running and stopped right as they got next to us. Those instances caused him to bark at them) but usually, he is totally fine with everyone and for strangers, once I let them in and he sees they're not a threat, he's ok with them as well. In fact, I've never had to shut him in a different room, leash him, crate him, nothing. However, there were recently 2 incidents that happened that I am just at a loss for. I should add that my boy is between 5-6 years old and neutered. Not sure if that matters. 

So the 1st incident happened when I let a plumber into the house to work on my toilet. Koda (my GSD) was fine when the guy first entered, but then as soon as the guy got into my bathroom, he cornerd him, barking like crazy. I immediately grabbed him and put him up. 

The 2nd incident really scared the crap out of me. I had to have someone from the cable company come over to replace one of my DVR boxes. Koda seemed suspicious the entire time. He kept trying to go over to him to smell him, but I wouldn't let him. I was GENTLY holding on to his collar so he wouldn't keep trying to approach the guy. I didn't want to freak the guy out. Then, I sat down on my couch and Koda sat in front of me on the floor. The cable man walked back into my bedroom, at which point Koda laid down at my feet on the floor. He was looking down the hallway, ears alert, listening, but that was it. But then as the cable man walked back up the hallway and got right to the living room, Koda lunged at him and tried to attack him!! Luckily the cable man had a cable box in his hand and used it as a shield. Koda immediately cowered down when the guy shoved the cable box in his face. I immediately put him up in a spare room after that happened. I was so shaken though. He has NEVER done that before. 


I have no idea what to make of this!!! I know my dog's not unstable, but one of my friends is saying that he might not be as stable as I think. And that's really bothering me. 


What do you all think? Tips on how I can prevent this from happening again that don't involve just shutting him away? I'd hate to always have to shut him in another room anytime a stranger enters my house because I want him to know that it is not acceptable behavior and he CAN remain calm and friendly in those situations. I have really been stressing about this ever since it happened. I want my dog to be stable!


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## Pooky44

You did hijack the thread. You might want to copy and paste it into your own thread so that people can focus on your situation.


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## vickip9

Pooky44 said:


> You did hijack the thread. You might want to copy and paste it into your own thread so that people can focus on your situation.


Done.


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