# what to do if I can't get focus in public



## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Dooney is almost 8 months old. I am really working on her focusing on me more (read the sticky's focus thread ). This morning we went downtown to walk around a craft show and she did really well ignoring people and not barking at them. But as soon as she saw another dog NOTHING I did could get her to look at me and she kept pulling to go towards that dog barking a couple of times/hackles up (popping her chain {prong collar}, sticking treats in her face, flicking her ears) so I wound up just walking away with her.( i guess i should mention that she just wants to play with them) So my question is this: What should I do when that happens

- Just walk away with her, no treat/reward
- keep standing there waving a treat all over the place, eventually the other dog will get out of sight then I get her focus and reward?

I know I need to work on the focus more at home and that the problem with eventually be taken care of once I have more of her focus, just until i GET to that point I want to make sure I handle it better. We are coming into "festival" and "art show" season and with the cooler weather I want to get her out more and used to different environments.

Thanks for any help you can give me.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wouldn't associate her focus on another dog with a correction(flicking ear, popping the prong) that is just ramping her up and she could eventually see the correcting as _coming_ from what she is looking at, so will become reactive. Keep your training upbeat and happy.
I would play the LAT game(have high value treats) and possibly redirect her BEFORE she focuses on another dog. Get her attention on you when you see another dog, or read her body language and stop her before she starts zoning in.
Work on focus w/ distractions before you bring her to these overwhelming venues. If you aren't in training class, that is a good place to proof her. 
8 months is still young, so just keep on managing consistantly and as she matures her focus on you and not impulse will get better.


----------



## Furricane (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm not an expert by any means but here's what I've done that's helped me with getting Kendra to focus more. I have a bag of her leftover kibble that I stick in my pocket. Before I even leave the house I tell her to "look." If she doesn't look at me right away then I bring the kibble in front of her nose until she smells it, and then bring it up towards my face, this way she's looking at me. As soon as she gives me eye contact I praise her by saying "good look." We do this a few times until she looks at me right when I give her the "look" command. 

When we go out on our walk and I see another dog coming, I move her across the street to a safe spot, put her in a down with her bum facing the dog across the road and give her the "look" command. When she looks I give her lots of praise and a treat every time she looks at me. If she's having a hard time focusing, then I move her farther away from the dog and we try the process again. Sometimes we have to be farther away, and sometimes it takes a little while, especially in the first couple of days...but we've only been doing it for the last four days and I've seen fantastic improvement. I've also started doing this method for squirrels and cats that we meet on our walk, and it's helped for that too. 

The main thing to keep in mind is being consistent, praising right when she looks at you, and not getting frustrated. Also try not to overwhelm her by training in an area with tons of dogs until she starts to get the hang of leaving them alone and focusing on you. We practice this command on walks or in the house, with and without treats, basically any time she's distracted and I want her attention I tell her to "look."

I hope this helps, I've tried other methods before (including acting like other dogs are no big deal, relaxing my body posture, and just walking by the other dogs...all methods which were advised by my trainer) but they just haven't worked for my girl. She's so food motivated and eager to please that this has worked out great for her.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Pop that prong collar if she's got one on. That's what they're for... to correct behavior like this. The correction should be able to snap her out of her focus on the dog. Once that happens, get it back on you with some kind of reward - treat, tug, whatever.

How is she with corrections? Does she recover quick?


----------



## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Pop that prong collar if she's got one on. That's what they're for... to correct behavior like this. The correction should be able to snap her out of her focus on the dog. Once that happens, get it back on you with some kind of reward - treat, tug, whatever.
> 
> How is she with corrections? Does she recover quick?


I WAS popping the prong . as soon as the leash "relaxed" she was trying to drag me towards the other dog. she does recover very quickly, but in that instance it just doesn't seem to do anything with her. In any other environment (other than dogs) i can pop and get instant results, but you put another dog into the mix and I just don't exist. I will work on her focus much more and will play the LAT game before we try that again.

After I had posted the question, we were in the back yard and her Golden friend was out in his yard and she was barking at him (they play constantly with each other) and i still had treats in my pocket from our trip and I got her to look at me a couple of times and rewarded her for it quickly. She just is not a very food motivated dog. We did do an obedience class, but there were SOOOO many dogs in there, I had the same problem- no focus from her.

Thanks


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You need to make yourself more exciting....act like a fool! Bring a toy that she loves and use it for training only if she isn't motivated. Does she like to tug? Tugging is a great way to distract, I would give that a try too. I like the french linen(synthetic) two handle tug.


----------



## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Wendy, I've been working on the same issue with Shasta. She is a "frustrated greeter." I don't believe her leash reactivity is at all fear based and accordingly, I don't believe it will morph into aggression.

I think that for the time being, you need to manage Dooney's interactions with other dogs, meaning that you need to make sure that you're not in situations where another dog can move into Dooney's red zone without you being aware of it and taking advance steps to avoid the undesirable behavior.

Do you have a good idea how much distance you need between Dooney and another dog so that she doesn't react? Take her places where you can maintain that distance and, over time, close the gap as you see her being able to maintain focus. I use the approach to PetSmart because there are a lot of dogs coming and going and I can see them approaching and move in or out accordingly to maintain the distance I want to work at. 

You might also want to try a higher value treat. For Shasta, I mix freeze-dried liver, some crunchy blueberry treats that she really loves and a little bit of cooked bacon in the treat bag. As long as you're working on this, she will improve, especially as she gets older. Shasta is 17 months old now and she is really starting to settle down. The other night, she and I were outside for a potty break and the neighbors little yapper came running down the driveway, barking. Shasta looked at the dog, but didn't bark, lunge or hackle. That was a first. Just hang in there, it will get better.


----------



## lsatov (Mar 29, 2011)

What I have learned is that dogs have thresholds. Set up a situation with a friend and a dog. Have the friend be a long ways away. Try to get your dog to focus with treats or food. If that goes well decrease the distance slightly, try for focus again and reward with treat or toy.
This will slowly increase your dogs threhold and the dog will be able to think and focus on you.

This approach I found very helpful and not stressful for the dog or the handler. I now make use of a boarding kennel near by and do this exercise. I now can walk
5 feet away from the kennel with barking dogs and I have the focus.

Laurel


----------



## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

1. Practice what you want starting somewhere easy and non-distracting like in the house.
2. Then find a ton of places where you can slowly increase the number and distance from the dogs (or other distractions). My favorite places to practice:
-Near a seldom used dog park close to my house. Surrounded by fields so I can stay very far away from the 1 or 2 dogs using the dog park.
-Obedience class. Even showing up before class and just sitting a distance away and watching the end of the previous class is so awesome- it has helped Dax be calm around other dogs SO MUCH. There are some extremely well behaved, calm dogs we can work around.
-Outside of Petsmart/Petco. Sometimes I just go stand near the door (but there is a ton of room around the entrance so we can be pretty far from the door and stay calm). I usually only actually go in if it is a weekday night and there are only a few other dogs there- the narrow isles and constantlyrunning into other dogs who are completely out of control mess up the training I have done.
3. Read Control Unleashed! So much helpful insight and so many helpful exercises.

So keep working on it and don't stress! Your dog is still young, lots of energy, pretty normal for them to be unable to focus on you. You just have to set up situation after situation where your dog *can* succeed.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dog reactivity, a case study, two dogs

Dog A, Rottweiler, 18 months old; handler: pet owner, owns pet sitting service; methods used: flooding from a distance, prong collar corrections.

Dog B, Doberman, 18 months old: handler: pet owner/experienced obedience trial handler; methods used: clicker, treats.

I have been in classes with Dog A, CGC last fall, flunked same issue; Basic classes this summer, same issue, started advanced classes timed after basic same night, came 1/2 through the basic time frame, keeping the dog back, using the prong collar and corrections. Dog is extremely reactive, has been on top of my dog once, particularly hates the Doberman. Focused on everything but the owner. 

Dog B, went through advanced classes with me, when the owner notices that the dog starts looking at another dog, she calls his name, he looks, she clicks and gives him a treat. When the Rottweiler barks and lunges at her dog, she gets him to look at her, and treats. I never realized he was reactive at all, but heard the owner talking about it. You would never know. I have never seen her administer a leash correction. 

I never saw any benefit to clickers, but it certainly worked in this case. Maybe I should wipe the dust off of one of the many I have somewhere, and figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time.


----------



## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

You could try harsher corrections if her behavior is dangerous...you are 'nagging' her at the moment. You should only have to correct once. 

However, I believe it to be astronomically more fair to teach her to just pay attention to you. A watch me or a focused heel could be very useful. Easier said than done, right?

Get it mastered under no distraction. 

Then go somewhere where dogs will be far away. Work on it again. If just the mere sight is causing problems...

try a dog she is friendly with/not reactive to/doesn't want to play hours and hours with. Try it then and see if it helps.

Regardless just keep slowly working towards your dogs threshold. Reward profusely. Once she understands that you and your 'paychecks' are much more awesome than flippin out over other dogs....success. But knowing her as a GSD, you are still going to need to correct down the line. If you do, hopefully not, praise her a lot right after. Her attention should be on you.

I hope that helped...I am working on the same thing, although not as pronounec (yet!) with my puppy.


----------



## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

I have been doing the LAT game ALOT with her since I originally posted this and reward her constantly for no re-action to other dogs- etc. Plus we have gone to PetCo a lot as well and worked on everything in there- it is amazing how quickly I noticed the difference in her- we are still FAR from perfect- but we aren't as bad as we were either- practice practice practice!!


----------



## cowboy17 (Sep 26, 2011)

Do you treat after the "correction"?

If the correction changes the immediate behaviour but is not rewarded immediately, the dog will go back to the same behaviour, sort of like " I stopped what I was doing when you popped me, but you didn't show me that it was good that I stopped, so I'm going back to what I was doing".

Practicing with a friend and a dog in a non-distracting environment will prove beneficial.

Treat after every correction as long as the behaviour or focus changed.


----------



## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

cowboy17 said:


> Do you treat after the "correction"?
> 
> If the correction changes the immediate behaviour but is not rewarded immediately, the dog will go back to the same behaviour, sort of like " I stopped what I was doing when you popped me, but you didn't show me that it was good that I stopped, so I'm going back to what I was doing".
> 
> ...


Yes I also treat after a correction (when the correction stops her behavior)- still looking for her high reward treat though- could mostly care less about the food/treat- waiting for my tug toy to come in- I ordered it finally...


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

cowboy17 said:


> Do you treat after the "correction"?
> 
> If the correction changes the immediate behaviour but is not rewarded immediately, the dog will go back to the same behaviour, sort of like " I stopped what I was doing when you popped me, but you didn't show me that it was good that I stopped, so I'm going back to what I was doing".
> 
> ...


Very good advice!

And if the correction didn't at least interrupt the bad behavior, then it is not what we call a "motivational" correction! In other words it didn't motivate your dog to stop. Like people, some dogs need a higher motivation. 

Think of it like a traffic ticket for speeding - if it were just $20 for getting caught and no points or other effect, then many folks would just continue to speed; however at $200 per stop, many would stop speeding; while at $2000 plus a hit on the points almost everyone would stop; and a jail sentence would disuade all but the mentally ill to stop speeding.

Maybe your dog needs a $200 or even a $2,000 ticket?


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Pop that prong collar if she's got one on. That's what they're for... to correct behavior like this. The correction should be able to snap her out of her focus on the dog.


I disagree with this approach, and here's why.

Your dog feels the need to bark and lunge when she sees other dogs. In most dogs, this is a fear-type reaction - "I'm kinda scared of you because I don't know who you are, so I'm gonna bark and act scary so you'll keep away."

When you correct her, she won't associate the correction with her behavior as much as she will associate it with another dog. To her mind, it's not "I'm barking and that's why I'm getting corrected", it's "Whenever I see another dog, I get hurt, so other dogs are bad and I have to make sure they don't come anywhere near me."

What you need to be able to do is get her attention and focus back and then make her do something you want her to do (like sit) and reward her for that.

I would seriously work on the name game. This is the first thing I learned in the classes I took and the first thing I teach when training with others. Saying your dog's name should mean the dog looks at you NO MATTER WHAT. I train this using clicker/reward and then work on proofing it in more and more busy public places.

If you have friends with dogs, ask them to help you work on this by using their dog as the "strange dog" you encounter. If you don't have friends with dogs, a group obedience class is fantastic for this because it gets you around other dogs in a controlled setting. (Well, a good class will, anyway.)


----------



## cowboy17 (Sep 26, 2011)

Let me ask you this...

When you do a "sit" command and follow with a click, or a yes, do you treat the dog while it's still sitting?

Or 

Do you make the dog move for the reward?

i.e Sit, yes, treat walking away from the dog so it breaks the sit and movesto get the treat?

Treating this way builds more drive for that food.

Maybe, (maybe) developing a stronger food drive would help.
Not saying higer value treats, but more drive for the treat.

Will


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with Abbyk9. 

Your voice is not working at this point, why not try the clicker. Load it up (lots of treats) before you go in a non-distracting place and then take the dog to the point where he is just able to see another dog, click, dog looks at you, treat and party. At first, then walk in the other direction, away from the other dog, and every so often click and give a treat. 

The dog might hear the click when he has tuned out your voice. Also, clicks are always the same, that is they are not louder or quieter or angrier or sweeter depending on the situation. Click means treat boom. Click means I did the right thing, get a treat! Click means good. 

I hope someone can tell me about that first click, would you click to get the dog to look at you and then treat, or would you say LOOK, or turn in the other direction and dog looks at you or turns and then click for a treat? I guess the object is for the dog to see the other dog, and look at you to see if you have a piece of steak for him. Whatever I think the click has to happen before the dog shows any reactive behavior.

Anyway, I am not an expert on clickers, but it seems like it might work for this situation.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

No more free play at the dog park .
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Do you make the dog move for the reward?
> 
> i.e Sit, yes, treat walking away from the dog so it breaks the sit and movesto get the treat?
> 
> Treating this way builds more drive for that food.


Why would I want my dog to break the sit, though? Sit should be sit/stay until released, not sit until the dog feels like it's time to get rewarded.


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't believe in prong collars and my dog could care less about kibble or treats when she excited. I make her sit and I stand between her and whatever she is focused on and wait for her to calm down. This sometimes has to be repeated every few steps or until the 'distraction' has moved away. This is also a good opportunity to practice heeling and walking away from the distraction. 
By the way, I believe prong collars are a good option for some. I am just lucky in not having to resort to them.


----------



## cowboy17 (Sep 26, 2011)

AbbyK9 said:


> Why would I want my dog to break the sit, though? Sit should be sit/stay until released, not sit until the dog feels like it's time to get rewarded.


The "yes" is the release. The required action has been completed to the expectation.

the key is the building of the drive for the food by making the dog move for it.

as example, take a treat and just hand the dog the treat. see how excited he gets to get that treat.
now take another treat and move it away from him (lure him).
He will work more for the treat and want it more.

another way to look at it is like a dangling carrot. If the carrot is easy to get, you don't have to work for it at all.


----------



## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Cowboy - your posts are quite unclear. Do you click for the correct action and then use "yes" as the release? Or is your click / voice marker the release that allows your dog to break the stay and come chasing after the treat?

I really don't see how having the dog break the stay makes him "more driven" for the food than, say, tossing it to him after he completed the action you wanted or having him wait for it as you step back in and treat.


----------



## cowboy17 (Sep 26, 2011)

sorry for being unclear.

I don't use a clicker. The "yes" is my marker and my release.
When I "yes" he has complete my request to my liking, and he is treated for this. But, I don't just hand him the treat.

See this video at around 2:26. 
See when he treats the dog he makes the dog move for the treat to "Build food drive" in the dog.





 
I guess what I am suggesting is to go back to the basics and develop more food drive and stronger engagement to begin helping with your problem.


----------

