# Training yourself vs going to classes...



## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

Just wondering what people's thoughts were.

I'm talking about basic to intermediate obedience and simple behavioral stuff. Not problem dogs or necessarily even sport type stuff.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

I'd train myself. I find common sense and an open mind gets you basic obedience.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I do basic to intermediate OB myself all the time, however I think it is far beneficial for your dog to be in a training environment with other dogs present, all doing the same thing, as this does help your dog learn to be near other dogs, ignore other dogs and assist in building a trust/bond relationship with you. Plus if you intend to trial, your dog will need to be used to being around other dogs.

I also like being trained as the trainer will pick up little things I am doing wrong, things I don't realise I'm doing, so for me classes help both me and my dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I won't disagree with any of the above. I thought the exposure to other dogs was the really important part of dog obedience training, then found myself avoiding other dogs and training my dogs to ignore other dogs anyway.

Just a regular pet guy and my first dog attended puppy class where I found out he was an A hole but we made it through, then my other dogs no formal training. I knew what I wanted in my guys and have had few problems getting there.

My GSD was the one exception people issues that was new to me. But I did the Leerburgh "Who pets my puppy" and he turned out great. Did not do that with my Boxer and save for other training she would have happily driven/rode off with a stranger!

My first dog convinced me to avoid dog parks with him and I think in the long run that's been a blessing my guys have not had any issues that needed addressing. So I guess I'm happy going it alone. 

But you have to start somewhere with your "first" dog.


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## ZoeD1217 (Feb 7, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I won't disagree with any of the above. I thought the exposure to other dogs was the really important part of dog obedience training, then found myself avoiding other dogs and training my dogs to ignore other dogs anyway.
> 
> Just a regular pet guy and my first dog attend puppy class where I found out he was an A hole but we made it through, then my other dogs no formal training. I knew what I wanted in my guys and have had few problems getting there.
> 
> My GSD was the one exception people issues that was new to me. But I did the Leerburgh "Who pets my puppy" and he turned out great. Did not do that with my Boxer and save for other training she would have happily driven/rode off with a stranger!


So you don't socialize your dog's with any other dogs? At all? I know I've seen you mention it before. I will never be the type to take my pup to the dog park or for doggie play dates. I am torn on group puppy class. I see socialization thrown around all the time and I certainly don't want to cause problems by under socializing her but I also wonder how much that is needed if I know for a fact we aren't going to go romp around with other dogs. I just want her to be able to walk around the neighborhood on a leash without being a nutjob. 

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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Harry and Lola said:


> I do basic to intermediate OB myself all the time, however I think it is far beneficial for your dog to be in a training environment with other dogs present, all doing the same thing, as this does help your dog learn to be near other dogs, ignore other dogs and assist in building a trust/bond relationship with you. Plus if you intend to trial, your dog will need to be used to being around other dogs.
> 
> I also like being trained as the trainer will pick up little things I am doing wrong, things I don't realise I'm doing, so for me classes help both me and my dog.


This pretty much sums up my feelings about dog classes. I've been to so many, with so many dogs, that I can almost recite the opening spiel, but I keep going because I haven't with this dog yet. And training them around other dogs and their owners, is great socialization, training around distractions, and I have friends there -- we can commiserate about everything, dog related and not dog related.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

My 10 month old pup has never been to any classes. He's only played with a couple of my friends dogs. I can walk him off leash around the neighborhood and he ignores all dogs. Even ones tied up in the yard barking it's head off. Of course he looks but he doesn't care. I can train him in the front yard with the dog watching across the street and a little pomeranian barking behind a glass door. I want my dog to see and experience dogs big and small but I don't want him playing with them. I want him playing with me. I'm fun. They are not so there is no reason for him to want to run up to them. 

If you have time and money of course take training classes. It definitely can't hurt but the reason your dog will be obedient is all the time spent training outside of class. Your dog isn't going to learn much during that one hour. That hour is there to teach you how to, it's on you to go home and do.


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## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

I have an 11 week old girl who is getting pretty far in her basic obedience training... and I did it all myself, with the distraction of a cat and my older dog (who has manners, but will slowly inch her way over in front of the puppy while sitting pretty and wanting a treat). I don't have the money to take training classes. I plan on doing some workshops or something to get involved in some sort of sport (meaning agility or competitive obedience or something, not necessarily schutzhund or bitework type stuff) and in our primary goal right now, which is getting her Canine Good Citizenship and her approved and registered as a working therapy dog.
This is my first puppy that I get to raise all by myself the way I want to though (I'm only 21, got my first dog when I was 12, still have her, trained her mostly myself, but it's far from perfect). Apart from the neighbor's constantly loose dogs, she hasn't had a lot of training related socialization. Though, we are at the point where if I call her attention and ask her to "sit" or "down" or even a tiny bit of "stay" with the neighbor's dog vying for her attention, she will mostly listen to me and do so. Still needs more of that time working with those distractions (she just wants to see the world, so especially if we're going to a new place, distractions are a big deal to her, but slow and steadily working on that. And every day we improve).


As I said, this will be my first puppy I get to raise exactly how I want. So, while not every dog is the same, I'm interested in seeing how she turns out based on my training methods, diet, etc. I've worked with friend's dogs before (who all lost everything when I stopped working with them because their owners didn't keep up with it), but yeah.


I'm just asking the question because I had contacted my local evaluator for Therapy Dogs International, asking her what sorts of conditioning and training she recommended, and if there were any workshops or classes I should definitely take before we start the testing process. Her answer was to get my pup in obedience classes once she's 6 months old. Now, apart from basic temperament, breed, and age, I hadn't said anything about my dog. So understandable that she would suggest classes... but yeah. Sorta got me to thinking... since I've always just read books, watched youtube videos from trainers, and just worked with a bunch of dogs (only one of which was mine) in the past... and never been to any actual classes or workshops or anything.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

boomer11 said:


> Your dog isn't going to learn much during that one hour. That hour is there to teach you how to, it's on you to go home and do.


Of course, but that doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile hour.  Since most of us are not dog training experts, no matter how long we've owned and trained dogs, there's always more to learn. 

Classes serve many purposes - the eye of an experienced trainer to point out what you're doing right or wrong or what you could be doing better, training your dog in a novel environment around new people and other dogs, and giving you a plan each week of what to work on. 

I personally like the structure of having a plan (and yes, I realize I COULD do this myself, I'm just less likely to do so if I don't need to go back to class each week and demonstrate that I have actually worked on those particular skills), it helps keep me focused so I don't try to do too much at once and get overwhelmed when I don't have anywhere near enough time to work on everything I want to get done each week!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Serbrider said:


> I'm just asking the question because I had contacted my local evaluator for Therapy Dogs International, asking her what sorts of conditioning and training she recommended, and if there were any workshops or classes I should definitely take before we start the testing process. Her answer was to get my pup in obedience classes once she's 6 months old. Now, apart from basic temperament, breed, and age, I hadn't said anything about my dog. So understandable that she would suggest classes... but yeah. Sorta got me to thinking... since I've always just read books, watched youtube videos from trainers, and just worked with a bunch of dogs (only one of which was mine) in the past... and never been to any actual classes or workshops or anything.


The thing is, you don't know what you don't know. And you may be doing a fantastic job on your own, but still - you're just 21 years old. That's absolutely NOT a diss on your age, it's just that your experience training dogs is by definition limited, as it would be with any other young person. Being able to demonstrate that you've passed certain classes shows someone who knows nothing else about you that you've trained a dog or dogs to a particular level.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Pretty much anyone can teach the basics like sits and down. That's not what group classes are for. At least that's not why I'd go with a puppy. 

A good training class is basically a controlled setting where you can work one on one with your dog while there's other dogs, people, and noises around to distract. It's training, but it's also socialization. Not socialization like a big play group, but just working on focus and working together in a new and stimulating environment.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

I don't think our training would be complete without both. Gypsy acts totally different in a class vs. with me alone. Class can kick her into high gear and is good for building her confidence around other dogs, which she desperately needs. Training at home is great for building our bond and teaching new behaviors, solidifying what she knows. I also want someone to watch me because I make errors all the time that I know are wrong, I just have no idea that I'm doing them! Like double-cues in Rally. Even for something like basic obedience, I still think it's useful even if your dog already knows every single behavior, because you can always polish it and get it even better. Coming to class being prepared lets you get something different out of it than if you came having to listen to the instructor's every word while not being able to pay 100% attention to your dog. And of course if you don't know it all, then you're going to be learning from the class. I also like watching other people work with their dogs. It's really interesting.

I think the exception would be if you just found the class to be chaotic and poorly run, but hopefully that's not the case.


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## Serbrider (Jan 30, 2014)

Oh, and I totally agree. Hence why I was asking her about workshops and single day classes (rather than a four or six week course which I unfortunately cannot work into the kind of work and school schedule I have). I am ALWAYS looking to learn. I'm curious to see how Arya turns out, and I hope she turns out well, and while I have worked with a lot of dogs, due to my age, background, and lack of formal training, I am NOT a trainer. All the dogs I have worked with that don't include my own were all volunteer work. Either at the vet clinic I worked at (which was really little things here and there like training a dog who was boarding to not rush me to get food but to sit back and wait, which I was able to get in like, two feeding times if that, depending on the dog), the animal shelter I volunteered at (again, similar things as the vet clinic, a few older and younger dogs training basic commands), and with friends. None of which did I get paid for training. And the first really wasn't training, it was more behavioral stuff of calming the aggressive dogs, gaining respect with the pushy ones, and similar... not really anything obedience related.

But yeah. I know I'm not perfect. Far from it. I make mistakes. Sometimes they are big mistakes, sometimes they are little tiny ones that are more "well, I kinda like this better". And that's partially due to my age, and partially due to my lack of a mentor or classes and such to "prove" my abilities as a trainer.

I wish I could do a regular 4 or 6 week course. I really do. I just don't have the money or the appropriate day hours to do so... even on weekends. But if I get her involved in Agility or some other sport, or with the Therapy dog work... I DO want to go to some sort of workshop or day event or something and get a far more experienced eye to check out what I'm doing right or wrong.

But yeah... I do my own training for various reasons... classes just haven't been an option for me growing up or currently. So I do it myself... until I get to where a youtube video and a book just is no longer appropriate and I need an expert eye to point me in the right direction. Which, with this pup, the way she's learning things and wanting to do more, I'll be getting to more advanced stuff than I can fully comprehend and do myself... so I will be going to those classes... again, not courses... but the individual class here and there.


ETA: I have also heard about the one place that has dog training classes in my area... and what I've heard hasn't been good... from people upset that their dog didn't learn anything to an older dog attacking a puppy. So... I'd have to drive at least 30-45 minutes to get to anything even semi-worthwhile.  Not that it's not worth it. I drive 35 minutes to take riding lessons with my equine trainer. And wish I had a trailer so I could bring my horse with me. Lessons are always great and awesome... always up to learning more.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Serbrider said:


> ETA: I have also heard about the one place that has dog training classes in my area... and what I've heard hasn't been good... from people upset that their dog didn't learn anything to an older dog attacking a puppy. So... I'd have to drive at least 30-45 minutes to get to anything even semi-worthwhile.  Not that it's not worth it. I drive 35 minutes to take riding lessons with my equine trainer. And wish I had a trailer so I could bring my horse with me. Lessons are always great and awesome... always up to learning more.


If it makes you feel any better, I have to drive an hour and a half.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Where I live the closest dog class is about an hour away and then its a Petsmart thing. For a real dog class it is even further. There are no dog parks close by. (and I wouldn't go even if there were) So I choose to do it myself. I have 4 other dogs and puppy came from a rescue where he was socialized with many dogs. I'm more concerned about him socializing with people. I've been going to the vets office, the tractor supply, another pet store, my daughters house to meet cats... any place I can think of to socialize him. When I lived in town I have done obedience and training classes. What fun! I'm also really intrigued by Baillif's posts about what he does. Wish there was something like that around here.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I'm not big on classes but I will say this.

You can't do it alone as well as you can under someone's wing, assuming that person knows what they are doing. You won't find that at a Petsmart or a petco most likely. I'm not saying it can't happen but it probably won't. 

I was really lucky. I emailed Cindy from leerburg wondering if she knew any mondio ring sport trainers in my area and she at first said no but later remembered one that had a facility 15 minutes from where I live. He also just happened to be the only trainer in NC (entire south east not counting Florida) with two true legs of mondio ring 1 and who went to nationals to compete. I learned a lot in private sessions as a client. 

He got me started on the right research on my own, of which I did a lot. He told me now that the theory was in place the only thing I needed to do to become a great trainer was train a crap ton of dogs. Obviously I didn't have a crap ton of dogs. He did. He also had a job opening and I despite already having gone to school for something else decided to jump on it and pursue a passion instead. The real learning took place after and still continues to.

There's stuff I learned through him I'd have never come up with or learned on my own. There are nuances to it that need to be coached. I've never seen anyone pick up the leash or a treat pouch and do everything great naturally, although some do come closer than others and some pick it up far faster than others.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I do alot of my own training, but I like going to classes in order to proof my training, learn new things, expose my dogs to new environments. 

Of course it also depends on the class / trainer as to what I will and won't get into.
I don't like classes where you have 'puppy free for alls', did it once, not my thing at all especially when their is a lack of control.

There is always something new to learn and experience


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

ZoeD1217 said:


> So you don't socialize your dog's with any other dogs? At all? I know I've seen you mention it before. I will never be the type to take my pup to the dog park or for doggie play dates. I am torn on group puppy class. I see socialization thrown around all the time and I certainly don't want to cause problems by under socializing her but I also wonder how much that is needed if I know for a fact we aren't going to go romp around with other dogs. I just want her to be able to walk around the neighborhood on a leash without being a nutjob.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Not as such my dogs have been around other dogs only when I am in control. They were taught to ignore other dogs so that is there default position. On two occasions they have encountered a strange dog once was in our back yard??? 

My guys were in back and Molly herder dog popped over the fence! My guys froze and stared but they didn't move towards her, I got her back home safely.

The second time was when my neighbors piece of crap, yappy dog came into our yard, my guys were on the lawn the dog got by me while I was working on the car. I heard barking (not my guys) and looked up to see the little PIA dog barking in Gunthers face!!!! Gunther just stood and stared at him, he didn't move and Struddell stood behind Gunther.

I chased the little miscreant back home, no problem. So again all my guys don't do dog parks but they don't seem to have issues with dogs that invade there space.

Not really taking a stand on puppy classes and doggy training as such. All I wanted was safe happy family pets. Part of that being not having dog reactive dogs and I was able to achieve that by myself. The Leerburg site, which my GSD lead me to. Was the closest I came to needing outside help but "Who pets my puppy or dog" intelligently applied got me thru that.  And I think Rocky turned out better still!


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## lbriggs (Dec 12, 2010)

When we lived in Ontario, we drove an hour for 2.5+ years to train with someone we really liked (in IPO obedience). Now we're living in very rural Alberta (ie. our nearest neighbour is two miles away) and training with someone isn't a reasonable option for us. We loved training with our trainer in Ontario but we are also really enjoying training on our own. Taking responsibility for your own learning is really empowering and it's really fun to plan how you are going to achieve the picture in your mind. We have a lot of freedom to explore and experiment. We watch videos such as those from Michael Ellis, Joanne Fleming, etc. We take a lot of video, slow the clip down, and watch our handling and the dogs. We also have a lot of experienced online friends in agility, IPO, Mondio, FR, etc. who generously answer our questions. We've learned a ton this year since we've had to reason through every step on our own instead of blindly following along with someone's plan.


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

There is no doubt the basics are easy to teach your self.

Even the advanced stuff is not rocket science.

All the information is out there for the person with common sense, the drive and the

right dog.


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## Sri (Apr 25, 2013)

The only reason i go to classes is to train him Around other dogs and people. Its not everyone that wants to approach even a 6 mo th old GSD. 

That said, if I had known how to train him to ignore other dogs right from the time we had got him, I would not have needed to take group classes. A good trainer is very valuable though when we see issues we aren't progressing on. 


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

We aren't doing classes right now but for me classes provide structure and I think I like learning from real people versus videos -just really like the environment and being exposed to different ideas


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

Harry and Lola said:


> I do basic to intermediate OB myself all the time, however I think it is far beneficial for your dog to be in a training environment with other dogs present, all doing the same thing, as this does help your dog learn to be near other dogs, ignore other dogs and assist in building a trust/bond relationship with you. Plus if you intend to trial, your dog will need to be used to being around other dogs.
> 
> I also like being trained as the trainer will pick up little things I am doing wrong, things I don't realise I'm doing, so for me classes help both me and my dog.


I have to agree - even though I can, and do, train on my own I prefer to be in an environment that includes other dogs and other people when I am starting either a new puppy or an older dog.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I used to teach dog training classes and do private sessions. I still take all of my dogs through at LEAST one group obedience class.

Learning to listen in a strange environment around strangers with their strange dogs is COMPLETELY different from training at home - no matter how many distractions you have there.

Training classes serve two purposes - to teach the human HOW to work with their dog and to give the dog the experience of having to listen to their human in a 'different' environment.


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