# Electric collar training?



## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Hello everyone,

My dog is about 15 months. My trainer recommended an electric collar for continued SchH training. Mostly lowest possible stim type of training but I'm sure the stim will go up if he's in drive. Anyway, I do have a knowledgable trainer and will not use the collar without him around at first. For now, I just put it on whenever I put his other collar on (the electric is off) just so he's used to having it on his neck.

Meanwhile I was hoping to read some methods of electric collar training and thought maybe some of you can recommend or post some links to good articles. I'll mostly be following the trainer's directions but with these collars the more I know the better the training will go I'm sure.

So, if you have any good resources, please feel free to post them

Thanks!


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## usmc5831 (Oct 10, 2010)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> My dog is about 15 months. My trainer recommended an electric collar for continued SchH training. Mostly lowest possible stim type of training but I'm sure the stim will go up if he's in drive. Anyway, I do have a knowledgable trainer and will not use the collar without him around at first. For now, I just put it on whenever I put his other collar on (the electric is off) just so he's used to having it on his neck.
> 
> ...


I know every dog is different, but the E-collar killed our dogs drive. The trainer had proven success with other dogs and money back garuntee, but it just did not work for us. Ours did everything perfectly when the e-collar was on, but as soon as you took it off he knew and reverted back.

The second trainers opinion post this training was that putting it on a puppy makes them grow up to quick and should only be used in severe cases or teaching to come off of a bite. Everyone has there opinions and I am not against the collars, however, they just did not work for our puppy. He just turned one and for the last 3 months has been coming along better than before without any electric.

Just my .02 worth. Hopefully someone who had success can chime in to help you out.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

usmc5831 said:


> I know every dog is different, but the E-collar killed our dogs drive. The trainer had proven success with other dogs and money back garuntee, but it just did not work for us. Ours did everything perfectly when the e-collar was on, but as soon as you took it off he knew and reverted back.
> 
> The second trainers opinion post this training was that putting it on a puppy makes them grow up to quick and should only be used in severe cases or teaching to come off of a bite. Everyone has there opinions and I am not against the collars, however, they just did not work for our puppy. He just turned one and for the last 3 months has been coming along better than before without any electric.
> 
> Just my .02 worth. Hopefully someone who had success can chime in to help you out.


Semper Fi and as we all know, everyone has an opinion. The loudest ones proclaim themselves experts. Go with your instincts and common sense.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Contact Lou Castle and find his website. There is a lot of info there. Buy a higher end collar. Dogtra's are good.


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## usmc5831 (Oct 10, 2010)

PaddyD said:


> Semper Fi and as we all know, everyone has an opinion. The loudest ones proclaim themselves experts. Go with your instincts and common sense.


 Semper Fi brother. I agree, thats why I just threw it out there. Neither knocked the others training and to each his own. For what the OP is looking for it may serve a good purpose with long recalls and such.


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## jent (Jun 14, 2010)

First note, I have never competed in scutzhound, my experience is mostly around retriever training for labs, and obedience training in GSD's. With that said, I have been a huge proponent of the electric collar in my training, but only cautiously recommend it to other people.

I don't have time to go into too many specifics, but here are some important notes:
* Timing is everything, you need to be ready to correct at the right moment, and you need to be ready to give verbal instructions with that correction.
* I personally have my dog wearing the collar a long time before training, and a long time after. If his regular fabric collar goes on, his e-collar goes on too. He wears them together always, or no collar at all. For him specifically, I feel like he is more aware of me holding the transmitter, than the collar itself.
* COLLAR CONDITION!! You must start on a lanyard. In fact I often find it is best to start a collar conditioning when they are not quite finished with lanyard training (to make sure you can have points where you can correct them). The point being is you have to teach the dog how they can turn off the stimulation. Make sure the dog is in a position so you can give them a command, and if they don't follow you give a burn (start lower than normal), but at the same time guide them to obey. As soon as they start obeying, stop the burn. Basically showing them, that as they comply the stimulation stops.
* You should NEVER teach a new command with the collar. The collar is for reinforcing already known commands in new situations/distractions. The dog must ALWAYS know how to stop the burn, and able to comply. (which is why it is soooo important the dog is very heavily collar conditioned before you start working in more difficult situations)
* Again, I have no scutzhound experience, but everything I have been told is never use the collar in aggressive situations. Meaning I would not use it to force the dog to release from a bite. The way the collar forces the dogs neck muscles to contract can make it very difficult to release their jaws. Electricity makes muscles contract, it's that simple. But I have also been told that because it is located on the neck the way it is, it can actually intensify the situation. But again, that is mostly referencing dog to dog situations, not scutzhound training, so your trainer may know better than me.
* Keep up the positive in your training. I personally have never had a dog lose drive from collar training. But by the time I start collar training the dog already has a very high work drive, and is very excited to. At the same time, it is important you keep up the play (i have always used play to keep sessions fun and exciting) and positive reinforcement. It is particularly important in your beginning sessions.

Those are just a few of my core philosophies when dealing with the electrical collar, obviously opinions vary greatly in this field, but I will let you take/leave what you want. IMO the collar can be ether the best tool for a trainer, or the worst. Which is why I tend to never recommend it unless I know I have the time to devote to help the other trainer learn how to use it.

As for collar recommendations, it's worth it to spend money on a good system. I personally have had great experience with tri-tronics collars, great build quality, unlike dogtra both the transmitter and receiver are fully waterproof. If you want a cheaper tri-tronics I would recommend looking at the sport combo g3. It's a good collar, I like how you have a low/medium stimulation on every level for ether nick (1/100th of a second, used by me primarily to make the dogs responses quicker by providing a shock at the same time you give the command, making the dog try to obey before the shock) or burn (shock till button is released, used for correcting when the dog is not obeying a given command). It can also operate up to 3 dogs.

But recently I purchased a pro 100, and I gotta say, I wish this is where I had spent my money to begin with. The pro 100 is a great solution for me, and here is why:
* It's nice to have a dedicated nick button while still having lots of burn options (vs the 500 where you have to flip a switch to change between nick and burn)
* the big advantage it has over the combo is that it has a low/medium/high instead of just low/medium. This means that you wont have to change the level as often, and if the dog is struggling to obey, you can increase the stimulation by just changing your button presses. When timing is everything, it is EXTREMELY important being able to increase the intensity without moving a dial. I have also found myself being able to use lower stimulation levels because each level has more range and flexibility for those rare but hard situations.

Hopefully that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions, and good luck.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

IMO 
They work fantastic when used properly. I was able to train my Siberian Husky off leash to listen and respond to commands instantly. Something you are told my almost every Husky breeder/trainer/etc never to do, let your Husky off leash. 

The collars work when used correctly. Find someone who knows what they are doing and follow their instructions to the T. 

GOOD LUCK!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Collars have been extremely successful in the retreiver and bird dog world. Many of the trainers in those venues use Remotes. Like anything else it takes knowledge and skill to get best results.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

E-collars have also been used very successfully in the schutzhund world. Just make sure you introduce it correctly and follow a good program of training (this applies to all training collars) so the dog never becomes collar wise. 

I also recommend reading Lou Castle's site and talking to him.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

usmc5831 said:


> I know every dog is different, but the E-collar killed our dogs drive.


Nope. Bad training killed your dog's drive. The same thing could of happened with a clicker and bag of treats.


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## mthurston0001 (Jul 12, 2009)

Remote collars can be _extremely_ effective when used properly. However here is a word of caution: One of the big mistakes I've seen many owners make is setting the dog up to get collar wise. Or in other words teaching the dog that when the collar is off it can get away with whatever it wants. Collar on - train with compulsion, Collar-off no compulsion, collar on again - compulsion, etc. The dog quickly learns that it's the collar that provides discomfort rather than the handler. I avoid this by putting all my training collars in a rotation. I will also mix and match the combinations of collars, and last of all I will vary the amount of time each collar is on the dog. Hope this makes sense.


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