# I am at a loss, 5 month old attacking me.



## GSDloving

My male german shepherd puppy at only 5 1/2 months old has lunged and bitten me on several occasions. 

To sum it up, he started out as a food guarder about 2 months ago and slowly became worse to the point where I could not walk near him while he was eating (i believe I made it worse by taking his food away when he would growl, doing exactly what he was afraid of). He has been socialized, never beaten, fed well, gets exercise daily, and lots of love. 

I recently hired a trainer who mentioned crating him when I am not home/for bedtime and hand feeding. Also, no letting him on the bed/couch. So I started incorporating all of these things in my training. But he became extremely aggressive in the crate, growling barking and lunging. Trying to bite me whenever I am closing the crate up. 

During the day he is a normal happy puppy, does well with other dogs and LOVES people. He does normal puppy stuff, jumping, barking, and playing with toys. As soon as night time rolls around I notice he becomes very on edge, does not want to be pet. Will growl at me if I pet him at night. And just tonight lunged at me and tried to bite me when I walked past him in the hallway. Also, sometimes at night he will be growling at me when I am petting him and than when I stop he will rub up against me like he wants me to pet him more. 

I have really lost a lot of my trust for the little guy, I would never give up on him but who wants a dog who attacks their owner. The thing I don't understand is he completely protects me, makes sure I am always in sight throughout the day and when I return home he gets so excited. He wont go more than 20 ft ahead of me at the dog park and if I walk the other way he is quick to follow and makes sure I am not leaving him.

I am starting to think maybe he is just trying to control the household, or maybe it could be medical? But why does it only really happy at night is my big question?

I need a lot of feedback people, I can't live fearing my dog may attack me or someone else, I would like to be able to trust him. 

Also, him being so young and this aggressive already can't be normal. I am really leaning toward it being a possible medical issue.


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## BowWowMeow

Have you had his eyes checked?


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## sashadog

My first reaction would be to have him evaluated or at least have a trainer observe the behavior to make sure that it is true aggression and not just over-exuberent play. Not having seen the specific behavior but having observed other GSD puppies, they can get pretty vicious sounding and looking when they are just trying to interact with you. If you try and correct the behavior does he fight more? Or will he back off? Also is his day structured with obedience and discipline(not the bad kind) incorporated into a routine? If not, this may help to establish just who's in charge in your household. 

But, if you're sure that it's true aggression, I really hope that you can find a behaviorist or trainer to help you nip this is the butt now. This is not something that you want maturing as the boy gets older and bigger. I'm sure some more experienced members will post as well!! Hopefully they'll have some more solid advice.

Good luck!


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## KZoppa

okay first, he's 5 months old. He's not being aggressive. he's being a pain in the butt. You need to step up the training on a big scale. Get with a trainer who KNOWS GSDs and understands them. 

Second, yes, you did mess up by taking his food away when he would growl, therefore encouraging him that YOU the leader, cannot be trusted. 

Third, get him THOROUGHLY checked out by a vet to make sure there is nothing wrong. No pain feelings that could be triggering problems. Make sure that puppy is 100% healthy. Make the crate a positive place. Leave the door open for him to come and go as he pleases when you're home. Learn a share it game, also known as a can i trade you game. Basically he has something but doesnt want you to have it. Trade him something of equal value and praise him when he reacts approproately ie. no lunging, growling. 

ENCOURAGE TRAINING!!! Show him that working with you is a positive and BUILD YOUR BOND WITH HIM! And stop messing with him when he has food. Thats just messed up. 

The ONLY time he should get treats or chew toys or meals, should be in the crate. The crate should be his safe zone. In his crate he is allowed to chew these awesome items or eat his meals without being disturbed. If you want to get the awesome items, remove him from the room nicely and remove the items when he cant see you. Make all interactions positive and fun.


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## GSDloving

I am thinking about having my trainer come at night so she can see how he is acting. She has not witnessed any of his aggression other than food guarding.

There are times when he seems like he is play growling but I know it's aggression. He has actually bruised my arms and broken skin lunging and attacking me. If I talk to him while he is growling he growls more, and if I make any fast movements that when he lunges. I will even say in the nicest calm voice (without staring him in the eyes) "your okay bud, calm down, its okay". And he growls harder. His pupils get extremely dilated and it almost seems like he turns into a different dog. I practice basic obedience with him and make sure to stand by NILF, he has to do something to get anything (sit, down, leave it, wait). 

I have not gotten his eyes checked out, but by the way he concentrates on things and chases birds I am assuming he can see pretty well. Also, if it were his eyes wouldn't he be pretty consistent with his aggression? It really is only happening at night time, this is why I am struggling with it. It's not making sense. 

Also, sometimes when guarding a bone he will pick it up and put it in my lap and growl if I move at all.


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## wyominggrandma

Since it only seems to happen at night, I suggest taking him to a vet for an eye check. He is young to have vision problems, but it would not be unheard of.


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## KZoppa

GSDloving said:


> I am thinking about having my trainer come at night so she can see how he is acting. She has not witnessed any of his aggression other than food guarding.
> 
> There are times when he seems like he is play growling but I know it's aggression. He has actually bruised my arms and broken skin lunging and attacking me. If I talk to him while he is growling he growls more, and if I make any fast movements that when he lunges. I will even say in the nicest calm voice (without staring him in the eyes) "your okay bud, calm down, its okay". And he growls harder. His pupils get extremely dilated and it almost seems like he turns into a different dog. I practice basic obedience with him and make sure to stand by NILF, he has to do something to get anything (sit, down, leave it, wait).
> 
> I have not gotten his eyes checked out, but by the way he concentrates on things and chases birds I am assuming he can see pretty well. Also, if it were his eyes wouldn't he be pretty consistent with his aggression? It really is only happening at night time, this is why I am struggling with it. It's not making sense.
> 
> Also, sometimes when guarding a bone he will pick it up and put it in my lap and growl if I move at all.


 
have you read through the puppy threads?! You have a GSD puppy. The bruising you and breaking you seems to be pretty normal of puppyhood for these guys! As far as the growling, you need to have him evaluated by a behavorist. It could be that you're just letting him control the situation by growling. have you tried playing fetch with him when he drops the bone in your lap and gets growly when you move it? Perhaps turning it into a fun game would discourage the growling in that instance.


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## GSDloving

When I put him in the crate I give him lots of treats, I have never had to force him in, and if I leave him in their I will walk in and throw treats into it occasionally. The issue with giving him bones when he is in the crate is when I put it in the crate he immediately starts guarding it and trying to attack me.


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## GSDloving

This isn't just teething puppy biting and bruising. His pupils dilate he lunges and locks onto my arm. If you watch a police dog video of a german shepherd locking onto a man with protection on, that is exactly what he looks like. Its very very scary, to the point where I will be in tears. 

I really think he thinks he can control the household, either that or it's medical.


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## GSDloving

wyominggrandma said:


> Since it only seems to happen at night, I suggest taking him to a vet for an eye check. He is young to have vision problems, but it would not be unheard of.


I think I will do that, I will also have them check his thyroid.


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## KZoppa

GSDloving said:


> When I put him in the crate I give him lots of treats, I have never had to force him in, and if I leave him in their I will walk in and throw treats into it occasionally. The issue with giving him bones when he is in the crate is when I put it in the crate he immediately starts guarding it and trying to attack me.


 
before ever giving him a bone in the crate, just sit next to the crate randomly tossing treats in with him. Open the door, toss a treat, close the door. DO NOT TALK TO HIM DURING THIS PROCESS!!! Gradually work up to higher value treats doing this. When you give him the bone, toss some treats inside with him and close the door and just sit there where he can see you and knows you're there but not making eye contact or talking to him. Read a book, play on your laptop or something. When he does NOT growl, toss some more treats in. Do it a couple times a day. When you walk by toss some treats in. If he growls when you walk by, no treats. Dont ever let him have a bone or meals without the door being closed. this is for his peace of mind and the safety of others. If you have a wire crate for him, consider a crate cover so he feels safer in a more enclosed space. If you have a plastic crate for him, consider tossing a blanket over it so he cant see you outside the crate. Gradually you should be able to get him to the point the blanket or crate cover is unncessary and you can walk by without him being worried you're going to steal his things. Again, only remove things when he is not around to see you doing so. If he likes ice cubes, consider tossing a couple in his bowl as you walk by for him. Change up the fun things you give him.


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## RocketDog

I'm not nearly as experienced as some on here, but I wonder if he's afraid. You mentioned him being "protective of you" which is not possible at his young age--but fear sure as heck is. Also him "missing you" is a sign too of possible anxiety. My pup will stay out in the yard during the day and play for a few minutes by himself (about 15-20 with us watching him through the windows) but not at night, LOL.  I have almost an acre in my back and 3/4's are wooded so I definitely think he's a bit scared, ha ha! 

Also, be careful when you're "soothing" him that you're not inadvertently reinforcing the growling. The growling and biting in the crate--do you put a few kongs and treat toys in there? Just ignore that behavior and when he settles down, let him out. Rinse and repeat OFTEN. 

Lastly, my arms are STILL recovering from the scabs from him. (He's almost 21 weeks). I still have plenty of scabs and just tonight for the first time in over a week I had him jump up and bite again, after a little "butt-tuckin" episode which I couldn't resist running and chasing him during. He's SO DARN CUTE when he does it, but it overexcites him and HE WANTS TO PLAY. That's how they do it.


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## Lakl

I have never personally had to deal with a situation like this, so I am eager to hear what others have to say. Yes, GSD's can be land sharks and break skin when mouthing, but this just doesn't sound like that to me. This sounds like a serious behavioral issue to me that needs to be evaluated by a professional ASAP. I second the vision check as well since this only seems to be happening at night.


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## KZoppa

GSDloving said:


> This isn't just teething puppy biting and bruising. His pupils dilate he lunges and locks onto my arm. If you watch a police dog video of a german shepherd locking onto a man with protection on, that is exactly what he looks like. Its very very scary, to the point where I will be in tears.
> 
> I really think he thinks he can control the household, either that or it's medical.


 
contact Germanshepherdlova on this board. She has an alpha personality type dog so she may be able to give you some ideas for training even if your pup doesnt have an alpha personality. 

I also wonder if your pup isnt showing fear signs. As mentioned you said he seemed protective of you. Again, your pup is not old enough to know what protection is and how to go about it. Keeping an eye on you is part of the breed but puppies tend to keep an eye on their owners because the owners are a safety and meal ticket. They never stray too far from mom when they're little and that tends to stick around as they get older and that "parental association" gets transfered to you, the new pack. Does that make sense?


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## GSDloving

You guys are all very helpful.

He definitely shows signs of fear when he starts growling, looking very uncomfortable and on edge. But I have never done anything to make him fearful of me. And the fact that it's only at night.

It's very odd but I will definitely take everything you guys are saying into consideration, I could use all the help I can get.


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## RocketDog

Fear stages don't mean it's you _causing_ it---it could also just mean he's more of a shy dog or possibly a bit weak-nerved. It does happen unfortunately. I just wonder if that's some of it. 

Also, he could be one that has trouble settling himself down, and gets over-tired and over-stimulated, much like a child. I hope you keep us informed. I'd like to know what happens.


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## msvette2u

You need to put him on a leash, and do not let him get to you. Which may increase his frustration, or may not. 
I'd say behaviorist or trainer but some folks on here have wound up with doozies. 
Anyone who says he's being "alpha", encourages you to "stare at him" or "roll him over" is to be avoided like the plague.

If you can, and feel safe enough, try incorporating some of these training techniques.
Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong

If you aren't now, also do the NILIF, sit before meals, and definitely hand-feed.

Also, exercise the living daylights out of this puppy. Run, walk quickly, or whatever you must do, if he fetches, play until he drops. 
And find a trainer who isn't a dangerous waste of money.


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## KZoppa

OP, there have been a few threads posted about dogs only becoming aggressive at night. Perhaps you could find them and see what ideas came up with there. I've heard of it happening but usually in older dogs. I wish i could remember the specific thread on thinking of. Its pretty recent, last couple months.


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## codmaster

Sounds like a pretty normal GSD puppy to me. when ours was in a similar age, it was taking a big personal risk to get down on the floor to play with him. he would get all excited and hackles go up and he would growl (as much as a little puppy can anyway) and try to nip and generally bounce around and try to pounce on me. hurt sometimes also.

Had to work very hard to get him to learn to control himself and not get so carried away. Obedience training helped a great deal with him.

He was most certainly not afraid or fearful - just acting pushy, very self confident and very independent.

Eventually and slowly he has grown out of it - still wants to get carried away but at least now if he does try to mouth (he also learned great biter inhibition thankfullly) a single "OW" and he quickly switches over to just licking!

So hang in there and try some of the suggestions in the thread.

And realize that in all probability, your puppy is just acting like a growing puppy!


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## Dooney's Mom

This is one of those things that has to be seen. The only advice I have for you is get a trainer ASAP to observe the behavior and help you get a handle on him. If it truly is him being THAT agressive at only 5 months old, if you don't get him under control it is going to end very badly for everybody involved. 

Did you get him from a reputable breeder? ask the breeder if she will come and observe him in this behavior as well. Maybe he/she can also give you some insight

Is this your first GSD?


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## MaggieRoseLee

It does seem like you've been trying with the training/trainer so that's great and keep up the good work for that.

What I am NOT getting is how much 'fun' are you? How much engagement in a positive and fun leadership role rather than the I AM THE ALPHA BOSS YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME OR ELSE (uh, but I am a bit afraid or you....) way?????

The amount of FUN, joy and play, mixed with real exercise (Not on leash) may also help with this.

What may be happening is it's the end of a long boring dull and NOT ENOUGH EXERCISE type of day and your puppy isn't ready to quiet done with the rest of the family. So a rousing game of 'ATTACK' may be right up his 'bored out of his gourd' alley.

If you were better able to MANAGE his day with REAL exercise, training to mentally engage and stimulate him, and wear him out............... he'd be more likely to crate himself at the end of the day and you'll just have to close the door.

Have you talked to his breeder? How are the littermates doing? Any issues with them or did they go to owners more experienced in the breed (or not?). 

I have a feeling you have done zero of this 'training' (and this isn't just play, it's actual and real training....) it's called engagement (click this -----> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html )

Are you getting that level of attention and focus when you are training?

This is the stuff I HAVE to put on my schedule to do with my pups or I also have big issues and problems with them in the house. And it's not aggression per say from them, even if it may involve teeth. It's all activities from my FAILURE to fill their needs for exercise, mental stimulation with appropriate training/socialization, and truthfully the quality one on one time they need.


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## bocron

Where are you located? Maybe someone on here can recommend a trainer or behaviorist that is fluent in GSD.

Annette


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

KZoppa said:


> contact Germanshepherdlova on this board. She has an alpha personality type dog so she may be able to give you some ideas for training even if your pup doesnt have an alpha personality.
> 
> I also wonder if your pup isnt showing fear signs. As mentioned you said he seemed protective of you. Again, your pup is not old enough to know what protection is and how to go about it. Keeping an eye on you is part of the breed but puppies tend to keep an eye on their owners because the owners are a safety and meal ticket. They never stray too far from mom when they're little and that tends to stick around as they get older and that "parental association" gets transfered to you, the new pack. Does that make sense?


That's the alpha roll dog right? Probably not the best thought for a 5.5 month old puppy who may be exhibiting fear. Particularly since we cannot see the puppy at all. 

MRL - good info.


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## Cassidy's Mom

GSDloving said:


> I am starting to think maybe he is just trying to control the household....


This is the least likely scenario, so I'd eliminate that thought immediately. And if your trainer insists that this is about dominance and your puppy is trying to take over the household, I'd find another trainer. Good luck.


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## billsharp

GSDloving, I think you should read MaggieRoseLee's advice carefully and follow it. 

It sounds like you have an active, driven 5 month old. Liesl was that way too, and your description sounds similar. After a day of playing, interacting, etc (coincidentally, nighttime) we would settle down to watch tv, read the paper, do computer, and she would get very agitated and bossy--growling, snapping her jaws, grabbing our hands and trying to pull us off the chairs. It could easily be mistaken for "aggression" but in fact was simply a temper tantrum by a dog who wanted play and interaction and was being very insistent about it. 

You mentioned that your dog "locks on" when when he grabs you. Is the "lock on" one that shreds the skin and muscle and leaves you with gaping holes and crushed bones? I thought not. What he is doing is probably "grabbing" you to try and direct you to do what he wants, ie, play with me. You do the same thing when you "lock on" to his collar to lead him somewhere, only your fingers don't hurt. This grab-mouthing will definitely break the skin, but it isn't dangerous "aggression" IMHO. Still, have a professional look at him for a (much) more valuable opinion.

Do you have a tug toy? When he starts one of these episodes, get that toy out and shove it in his mouth. If he grabs it and begins playing tug I think you'll have your answer. A truly aggressive dog, upset with you, will not give a flip about a rubber toy. A 5 month old puppy will say "yay!" when you do this and engage you in a game of tug, still growling and with eyes all dilated, etc. 

Finally, you mentioned that you were "in tears". Obviously this is understandable, but you have to get a grip--regardless of what happens, YOU are charged with the responsibility of being the calm assertive one. GSDs sense your mood exquisitely, and if you become weak and unsure that will drive the dog's desire to dominate the situation. Be ready for the next episode, rise up, take a firm stance to your dog and by your calm, firm reaction let him know that you are the boss. "GSDloving" should only take place once he has this concept clearly in mind.


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## Jax08

wyominggrandma said:


> Since it only seems to happen at night, I suggest taking him to a vet for an eye check. He is young to have vision problems, but it would not be unheard of.


This and also, I read an article that dogs who are prone to be aggressive are worse at night because of their seratonin/melatonin levels. Look that up and see what you find. You could give him a small does of melatonin at night and see if that makes a difference.


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## KZoppa

Jean I wasnt referring to alpharolling. Debi has put a lot of training into her big boy. She may have some ideas fir training the op could use. I would never suggest alpha rolling. Just training and ways to go about it.


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## MaggieRoseLee

I missed if your current trainer was agreeing that this normal puppy play behavior is aggression and telling you to treat it as that.... I'd change trainers right away if that's the situation cause you are going to end up with a nightmare of a fear aggressive dog


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## Castlemaid

To me, just going on what the OP is saying, it doesn't sound like normal puppy play - it sounds to me like there is something else going on there - but what? So hard to know without being there and seeing it. It could be a medical issue, like eyesight, it could be amped up energy and play, it could be an insecure/fearful pup that at the end of the day, after dealing with a lot of stressful stuff, just looses it, or it could be something weird and strange that shouldn't be there. 

I would try to get an experienced person to take a look and observe. But not someone who sight-unseen decides that a five month old is being aggressive and dominant, and the only way to deal with this is alpha rolling. 

You may need a behaviourist, but see if you can get recomendations for one from trainers, vets, etc. Anyone can call themselves behaviourists, so one does need to do their homework about who to believe.


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## Heathear

Make no mistake- this is aggression and worse yet, it is dominant aggression. Your puppy does not see you as the alpha dog in his pack. Food guarding would not even begin to enter his mind if he saw you as a pack leader. What the alpha dog says, goes- without arguement. In a wolf pack, the alphas eat first and if they return to eat, the subordinates surrender immediately. This is how your puppy should react to you coming near his food. You need to establish the pecking order in your home- a house run by a dog is a disaster waiting to happen. Read everything you can get your hands on from Cesar Milan- no matter how you feel about his methods, there is no arguing that he understands the way a dog thinks. I have had great success with my dogs using the tools he provides.


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## BlackPuppy

GSDloving said:


> This isn't just teething puppy biting and bruising. His pupils dilate he lunges and locks onto my arm. If you watch a police dog video of a german shepherd locking onto a man with protection on, that is exactly what he looks like. Its very very scary, to the point where I will be in tears.
> 
> I really think he thinks he can control the household, either that or it's medical.



I agree with you. Sounds like some very wrong. The the blood tests done and then decide what to do next.


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## BlackPuppy

Heathear said:


> Make no mistake- this is aggression and worse yet, it is dominant aggression. Your puppy does not see you as the alpha dog in his pack. Food guarding would not even begin to enter his mind if he saw you as a pack leader. What the alpha dog says, goes- without arguement. In a wolf pack, the alphas eat first and if they return to eat, the subordinates surrender immediately. This is how your puppy should react to you coming near his food. You need to establish the pecking order in your home- a house run by a dog is a disaster waiting to happen. Read everything you can get your hands on from Cesar Milan- no matter how you feel about his methods, there is no arguing that he understands the way a dog thinks. I have had great success with my dogs using the tools he provides.



The OP says he/she (sorry) is doing NILIF. I think it's time for very serious NILIF. No looking at, or talking to the dog. Always have a leash on him at all times when he is not in the crate. Even outside for potty breaks. There is no freedom. And NO talking. Totally ignore him. If he tries to play, then it's crate time, or time to go in another room. You are only there to feed him and exercise him. Don't bother trying any training for a couple of days. I wouldn't even make him sit for food. Just put the bowl down and walk away. Bet yet, feed him in his crate and walk away. 

I'm not an expert, and I can't see what your dog is doing. But I believe it is him not respecting you. 

I did have some trouble with my DS in the beginning when I got him. He would not take me seriously and I had to do the same with him. He's almost two and very loving now.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Heathear said:


> In a wolf pack, the alphas eat first and if they return to eat, the subordinates surrender immediately. This is how your puppy should react to you coming near his food.




Sorry but I have to disagree.

WE. ARE. NOT. WOLVES!!!!!!!

I really wish people would stop comparing our relationships with our dogs to the way wolf packs work. There is NO comparison!!

In my house, with my pack of 7 dogs, 3 cats, 4 puppies and 1 husband the following feeding protocols have been in place and *working* for many years:

Cats eat whenever they want. If they are out of food and we didn't notice they yowl at us and we fill their bowl.

Dogs eat *before* we do 99% of the time. Why? Because when I sit down to eat I don't want to have to jump up and go feed the dogs right away. I work all day, get home and have a bit of time to play/work with the dogs before *MY* dinnertime.

I want to be able to sit down and relax during and after my meal. That means the dogs get fed *FIRST*.

I've been doing it this way for over 2 decades and never had a problem with any of my dogs.


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## BlackPuppy

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I want to be able to sit down and relax during and after my meal. That means the dogs get fed *FIRST*.



I do the same. On the rare occasion that I eat first, the dogs will end up waiting a long time for their own food.


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## mebully21

when my other gsd was a pup she was literally a demon on 4 legs at that age,,biting, acting out, snotty behavior all the time. she was unbelievably nasty.. after i upped her obedience training and more mental stimulation she got way better..

sounds like your pup is just needing more structured training and mental stimulation.. put the pup on strict NILIF and start training all over again, and i would also hand feed his meals as his training treats so that he works for his food.

from now on if you walk by his food bowl toss something good in there like chicken or steak or burger meat.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

Heathear said:


> Make no mistake- this is aggression and worse yet, it is dominant aggression. Your puppy does not see you as the alpha dog in his pack. Food guarding would not even begin to enter his mind if he saw you as a pack leader. What the alpha dog says, goes- without arguement. In a wolf pack, the alphas eat first and if they return to eat, the subordinates surrender immediately. This is how your puppy should react to you coming near his food. You need to establish the pecking order in your home- a house run by a dog is a disaster waiting to happen. Read everything you can get your hands on from Cesar Milan- no matter how you feel about his methods, there is no arguing that he understands the way a dog thinks. I have had great success with my dogs using the tools he provides.


Umm.. NO. On all counts. Just... no. 

I would recommend "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell. THERE is a behaviorist that understands the way dogs think and communicate.


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## Rott-n-GSDs

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree.
> 
> WE. ARE. NOT. WOLVES!!!!!!!


I agree... and if dogs are like wolves, they are like adolescent wolves. BIG difference.


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## bocron

Plus, everything I've read (mostly Mech, who originated the term "alpha" and now basically negates his own research regarding the original use of the term), states that the last wolf to eat will absolutely defend his food once he gets his turn. If not, he would die.


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## BowWowMeow

Is the OP still here? Did the puppy go to the vet and get a total work-up?


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## matthewm11

*In a wolf pack the puppies eat first, not the "alphas"*

And dogs are not wolves. Modern gray wolves and dogs both likely evolved from a smaller, dingo like wolf. Genetically almost identical but behaviorally very different.


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