# Puppy of 4 week crying loud



## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Sorry for not posting pics about the puppy and introducing myself.

Here is the case: I live in an apartment building, mostly families. This is my first time to get a puppy. So since the puppy will pee anywhere, I need to put her on the balcony especially that my apartment is small. The issue is that the puppy got scared (she was with her mother + 10 other siblings) when I put her there and she freaked out :|

So first day I could not sleep even 3 hours. I assume the same for some of my neighbors since a couple of them complained to the property management.

Now it is better. She is not crying all night. But she sleeps/wake up multiple times in the middle of the night and starts crying for 20-30 minutes.

This is my third night with her. So still pretty new. The problem is that she cries real loud and her sound is very annoying. Much worse than a human baby.

Any quick tricks/tips? I would be thankful!


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## zxrooster (Sep 20, 2017)

The puppy will pee where you show it to pee with a little consistency and praise. The whining will stop in a couple days if you do not show any attention of any kind while it's whining. You say you put the puppy on the balcony, is it in a crate or running loose? A crate or "den" will make the puppy much more comfortable. Be patient with the puppy and count on a few sleepless nights and you two will be fine.


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## Azws6 (Sep 16, 2017)

I do not belive there are quick solutions to that. Maybe someone here will offer. This is just my opinion im no expert but if she looks like crying or barking excesively she has seperation anxiety. This happens from either everytime she whines or barks tou give her attention. And now she knows whenever she does that you will let ger out. Or she is scared of that place. You need to introduce slowly make ger like going to this place. Feed her there play with here there. And After introducing the place well Try not to spoil or she will get used to it and it will be even harder to get that behaviour out of her. What i mean by spoil is if she is hungry and she barks dont feed. If she wants to get out and she barks dont take her out. You should be the one setting up a schedule not the dog.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Where does the puppy sleep? On the balcony, all night?


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

If your puppy is 4 weeks old that is way to young to be away from its mother. Puppies shouldn't go home until they are at least 8 weeks old. She needs to be back with her mother and siblings. She is crying because she is alone at a time when she should be with her littermates still. There is no quick fix other than returning her to the breeder for another 4 weeks.


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## Azws6 (Sep 16, 2017)

Bramble said:


> If your puppy is 4 weeks old that is way to young to be away from its mother. Puppies shouldn't go home until they are at least 8 weeks old. She needs to be back with her mother and siblings. She is crying because she is alone at a time when she should be with her littermates still. There is no quick fix other than returning her to the breeder for another 4 weeks.


Agree to that. They learn alot from littermates and mother.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

4 weeks old????? I had a 3-12 weeks old pups and a 16 week old pup they are so much different then a 8 week old pup to me. I know dogs are not people but I found bringing home a 8 week old puppy is much like bringing home a newborn - nighttime wise. 4 week old pup needs to be with his momma.they learn so much from their litter mates and mom.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

When I was 15 y.o I was given a 3 week old GSD puppy as a gift. No much was known about his parentage and history, but we made it thorough. Had to bottle-feed the guy for 10 days, then slowly into solids. He grew up to be an amazing dog, calm, obedient and really sweet. So in some circumstances you still can do it, if there is no alternative. Maybe this is the OP case (wouldn't leave the puppy on the balcony tho)


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

To be clear I'm not bothered by her crying (well, I am, but I'll live with it). I'm afraid it upsets neighbours that they send me to the legal department. I live in an expensive building and the people here are a bit "touchy" but also the puppy noise is strong and I can understand people having jobs in the morning to go to.

I "built?" her a small crate. Basically, the paper box of the printer. At first, we started chewing it and tried to flip it. But I checked her a moment earlier and she was peacefully sleeping.

I do ignore her big time when she starts to cry. I also don't let her enter the room. After the 5th-7th attempt from returning her she stays in front of the balcony door although it looks like a bit upset. If I let her enter she'll follow me everywhere and stops crying. My only issue is that she pees anywhere and my small place can't tolerate the smell.

I think she has improved and the "crate" is helping her. I'll let you know tomorrow how today's night went.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

KaiserAus said:


> Where does the puppy sleep? On the balcony, all night?


Yes


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

It either she adjusted very fast or the crate (little box) did this. Yesterday, she slept inside the box and made exactly 0 noise. I found her sleeping calmly this morning too inside the box.


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## Evohog (Jul 18, 2017)

How did you end up with a 4 week old puppy?
I would get a real crate or x pen with the box in it and keep her inside. If you are worried about soiling, get a piece of plastic to cover the carpet.
Good luck!


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

I'm not sure a puppy that age should be sleeping alone or outside, but others would know better. I'd crate her in your room and line the crate to ensure easy potty clean up. I live in an apartment (fifth floor walk up - ah!) and just got a puppy this spring and let's just say my up/down stairs statistics per day doubled instantly. 

I'm not sure if she has to potty during the night but maybe you could take her once outside in the middle of the night to go? I'm only familiar with 8-10+ week olds and their bladder capabilities so maybe someone else can jump in here. Are you with her all day or is she on the balcony?

I would say the crying is due to missing the company of her littermates but I would think at that age she def needs someone with her throughout the day and to be inside at night. Anyways, I hope it gets better, just wanted to offer support given I have my moose of a puppy in an apartment and I know how hard it can be. He's entered his let's bark at every noise phase and my neighbors can't be loving it. 

It will improve!


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Evohog said:


> How did you end up with a 4 week old puppy?
> I would get a real crate or x pen with the box in it and keep her inside. If you are worried about soiling, get a piece of plastic to cover the carpet.
> Good luck!


I got it from a friend. Actually, I wanted to get it from the first day she was born but now I'm glad he resisted and fixed 4 weeks. I didn't really know that she is a "baby". :crying:


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

bkernan said:


> I'm not sure a puppy that age should be sleeping alone or outside, but others would know better. I'd crate her in your room and line the crate to ensure easy potty clean up. I live in an apartment (fifth floor walk up - ah!) and just got a puppy this spring and let's just say my up/down stairs statistics per day doubled instantly.
> 
> I'm not sure if she has to potty during the night but maybe you could take her once outside in the middle of the night to go? I'm only familiar with 8-10+ week olds and their bladder capabilities so maybe someone else can jump in here. Are you with her all day or is she on the balcony?
> 
> ...


No noise yesterday night too. But I'm feeling bad about leaving her alone in the balcony. I work all day so I only see her for an hour maybe :frown2:


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

This puppy needs to go back with her dam and littermates. She is way too young to left on her own all day long or expected not to cry. She is crying because she is scared and needs the security of her dam and littermates. If you really care for her you will let her be with her litter for at least another 4 weeks, if not more. At this point she is way to young to even consider housebreaking, especially if you are gone all day. This is not a good life for such a young pup, they should not be getting abandoned all day and night at this age, if ever.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm a little confused why in your current situation you even brought home a puppy, let alone one so young. As she grows she can't be left alone on a balcony all night and all day while you are at work. An hour per day of seeing her is not enough to train, exercise and play with her. She will grow out of control, and both of you will be miserable. I think she needs to go back to her mother, and then a different home when she is old enough.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

This is wrong on so many levels. Please do as others have said and take the puppy back. This is not a good situation for the pup and honestly, I would be surprised if it even survived. I'm wondering if it's quiet because it's now sick, or totally depressed. Maybe it is already totally resigned to living a miserable life.

Did you do any research about puppies before you brought this one home? There is a lot more to raising a pup than seeing it for an hour a day and locking in onto a balcony. How often and how much, and what are your feeding? Is the puppy even weaned? 

This is a recipe for total disaster. Please return the pup. It sounds like you don't have a situation for even keeping a dog, much less raising a much too young puppy.

Sorry to be so harsh, but it seems you don't have a clue of what you are doing to this youngster. It won't turn out well.


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

I'm glad others jumped in here regarding her age and being left alone. Also if she's alone all day how are you feeding her? Pretty sure a dog that age should be eating 3+ small meals a day or maybe even still nursing.. 

My parents shepherd was brought home too early at 6 weeks and I think that's to blame for some of her attachment and separation anxiety issues. She never fully developed that important relationship with her siblings and has no idea how to act around other dogs as well (according to their trainer). She is 7 now and we love her but they'll never do that again. Also, given she's going potty in her crate in a few weeks when you do want to curb that and have her hold it for longer periods of time, it will be much more difficult.

When I was getting a dog this spring I didn't even consider a puppy under 10 weeks, apartment living is just too difficult to manage a dog that isn't even a little bit housebroken (in my opinion). 

Hopefully you're in a warm climate I can't imagine a little puppy outside all night alone - she must be scared. I would take the advice of the much more experienced gsd people on this forum (than I am) and get that girl back to her mom so you can enjoy her when she's a few weeks older and set her up to be a successful companion later in life.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

Where are you located?


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## Evohog (Jul 18, 2017)

thegsd said:


> I got it from a friend. Actually, I wanted to get it from the first day she was born but now I'm glad he resisted and fixed 4 weeks. I didn't really know that she is a "baby". :crying:





thegsd said:


> No noise yesterday night too. But I'm feeling bad about leaving her alone in the balcony. I work all day so I only see her for an hour maybe :frown2:


You have got to be kidding me.
Take her back to her mom and siblings. And for the next 4 weeks, take a vacation from work and read up on how to raise a puppy and what it is like to live with a dog. 
If, after doing that, you still feel you want a puppy and are committed to what is needed, talk to your friend again.
And you can still visit the puppy while it spends the much needed time with her mom and litter mates.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

thegsd said:


> No noise yesterday night too. But I'm feeling bad about leaving her alone in the balcony. I work all day so I only see her for an hour maybe :frown2:


Is this for real?? A 4 week old puppy cannot be left alone all day she needs food and more importantly fluids. At her age I would be seriously concerned about her quieting down under these circumstances. Because if she is a healthy, normal pup she should be screaming the walls down at being alone and hungry. 
Get her back with mom and leave her there for at least a month. Then decide if you really want a dog because the situation you describe is not ok for any dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Is this for real?? A 4 week old puppy cannot be left alone all day she needs food and more importantly fluids. At her age I would be seriously concerned about her quieting down under these circumstances. Because if she is a healthy, normal pup she should be screaming the walls down at being alone and hungry.
> Get her back with mom and leave her there for at least a month. Then decide if you really want a dog because the situation you describe is not ok for any dog.


In my opinion this person is in no position to own a dog - never mind a very under aged pup who is not getting the care and socialization that it needs to be a half decent adult dog .

They have neither the knowledge, home-situation nor the time for ANY dog.

In my opinion , I hope the "breeder" never has a litter again . Period . They don't
seem to know or care about the needs of the pup either . 
Was the dog given out that young for convenience? 
Chances are the litter may have been accidental . 

I wouldn't return the pup to the original "breeder" . Give the pup a chance and take it
to a shelter where it can be integrated into a litter and fed properly and socialized with its own species and with kind and caring people --- and then found a GOOD home able to provide the necessities and a life worth living .


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

This makes me want to cry. If I was your neighbor you bet I would call animal control on you.


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

Disturbing. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Ignorance is a **** of a thing. I'm feeling so bad and stupid right now :crying:

I'm not sure if returning it to her mother is possible right now, but my family do actually have several dogs (young/old/small/big) and they can take care of her (they actually have a farm, this is not the first time I meet pups but I guess I took the role of the mother for granted). They live a bit far from here and I can't visit them before next month.

To assure some people here, I do work at a close distance to my apartment. So I do check her multiple times a day and feed her 3/4 times a day (milk in the morning, eggs in the afternoon and meat at night, some biscuits in between).

So to update on her situation: Now she no longer rush to the door as soon as I open it. She poops on the potty now but still pee in any place. She no longer make any noise.

Regarding the balcony, she do actually "see me" because the door is big/glass door. So I'm placing her box in front of the glass. I guess it helps.

Here is a photo of the poor soul


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

thegsd said:


> To assure some people here, I do work at a close distance to my apartment. So I do check her multiple times a day and feed her 3/4 times a day (milk in the morning, eggs in the afternoon and meat at night, some biscuits in between).


THIS IS NOT A BALANCED DIET. This pup will develop SEVERE NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES and become deformed/disabled or even DIE. 



> Regarding the balcony, she do actually "see me" because the door is big/glass door. So I'm placing her box in front of the glass. I guess it helps.


No. It doesn't help. Dogs are social animals and need physically be with a "pack".

What you are doing to this poor pup is out right cruelty. She is suffering physically from exposure to elements (being kept outside alone) and from malnutrition and she is suffering mentally/emotionally from isolation.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

konathegsd said:


> This makes me want to cry. If I was your neighbor you bet I would call animal control on you.


This. I'm horrified and sad. Four weeks is too little.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

THIS is what happens in a diet lacking in calcium, or with a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio like what is being fed to this puppy





































And that is just the beginning and talking about ONE mineral that is missing from the diet... There are many others also missing...


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

I think I took too much trust in the words of the "breeder".

I'm not trying to be rude, but can you instead of using CAPS start suggesting how I can fix this situation. Giving the pup to a "shelter" is not a possibility right now. I don't want to share the location where I live for privacy reasons but we don't have such shelters. At best, I can take the pup in a few weeks to my family farm.

So yes, I made a stupid decision but I got a situation to work it out right now. I assume I have three angles:

- Nutrition (Can you suggest the diet, how many times to feed, etc..)

- Socialization (I can play with her a few times a day for short period. I'm guessing if she learns how to pee on the potty I can let her roam in the apartment, so it'd help if there is a trick to that.)

- Health care (When do I need to get her to visit a vet?)

Regarding showers, should I shower her every week? Or should I forget about that until she gets older?

Any other suggestion or information is welcome.

Thank you.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Do you have access to decent commercial dog foods?


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> THIS is what happens in a diet lacking in calcium, or with a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio like what is being fed to this puppy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are there special food/liquids that can fill the gap? She has 11 siblings so the breeder was already supplementing the mother as she can't feed them all.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

thegsd said:


> I think I took too much trust in the words of the "breeder".
> 
> I'm not trying to be rude, but can you instead of using CAPS start suggesting how I can fix this situation. Giving the pup to a "shelter" is not a possibility right now. I don't want to share the location where I live for privacy reasons but we don't have such shelters. At best, I can take the pup in a few weeks to my family farm.
> 
> ...


You are in absolutely no position to get snippy about caps when this situation could KILL YOUR PUPPY. She seriously still needs to be with her mother and littermates. That's what she really needs.

Diet: A high quality commercial food is the route I would go. I don't know how many times to feed because I brought my puppy home at the proper time. Mine got three meals a day until she was six months old.

Socialization: I will let the breeders and rescuers with puppy experience weigh in.

Vet: Um, I would at least call them now and ask them.

Bathing: Showers? I would just make sure to keep her clean, don't let her lie in her own excrement. But because I also don't know how well puppies do at that age when it comes to regulating their own body temperatures, I'd again, ask an experienced breeder, rescuer, or vet.

But seriously, take her back to her mother.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> Do you have access to decent commercial dog foods?


I did actually go to a one the day I brought her but I think it was not "decent" enough. There is some kinda mini-animals-mall in a 30km drive from my place. I'll go tomorrow to check what they have.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

You need to be feeding her actual dog food for puppies. As young as she is she probably needs puppy formula. DO NOT give her cow milk, by that I mean store bought milk people drink. It does nothing for them an is likely to give the puppy diarrhea which could dehydrate her. 

Unless she is covered in poop or pee she shouldn't need bathed. Maybe at most once a month. 

Keep her inside with you when you are in and keep an eye on here. You could by an x-pen and put newspaper out. I don't know where you live but if you hawks/eagle large birds of prey she is vulnerable outside and still small enough to be a target. Keep her **** in the bathroom if you need to instead of outside at night. 

Perhaps see if you can find somebody with a dig and puppies who could take in this little one if taking her back to the breeder isn't an option. You may have been asked your location to see if anybody here could take the puppy or make a recommendation for a rescue group.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

See if they have specific puppy diets. Something soft would be better I think. I wouldn't wait too long and I don't think this is the best solution, but its better then what she's been getting. I wouldn't even think about the potty training right now. At 4wks, I think its basically involuntary, its coming out whenever.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Post the brands you have available. People here can probably give you a best choice of them.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Kazel said:


> You need to be feeding her actual dog food for puppies. As young as she is she probably needs puppy formula. DO NOT give her cow milk, by that I mean store bought milk people drink. It does nothing for them an is likely to give the puppy diarrhea which could dehydrate her.
> 
> Unless she is covered in poop or pee she shouldn't need bathed. Maybe at most once a month.
> 
> ...


Can you give information on what the "formula" is. I'm asking so when I'm going shopping tomorrow I buy the right thing.

Regarding the climate/birds, I live in a warm climate. It's neither cold nor hot at this time of the year. There are no "hawks" or "eagles".


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> Post the brands you have available. People here can probably give you a best choice of them.


They don't have sites but facebook pages. I'm browsing now and it seems that "royal canine" is the most popular brand.

Edit: I'll keep browsing and update later with the brands.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

okay I have this "idea" and I hope it is not another reckless idea of mine. There is a cat that stays near the residence and do actually let me get close to him. I'm thinking maybe of catching him and joining him to the dog? He is an old cat but a small one (same size as pup). Could he be harmful?


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## Evohog (Jul 18, 2017)

thegsd said:


> I'm not sure if returning it to her mother is possible right now,


Can you at least ask? And explain why you want to bring her back. And explain it's only temporary?


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

For now, even if you cannot find a really good puppy food at the mall, get the best quality dog food you can find, as it will give your puppy more balanced nutrition than you are able to at home. And if there is a Vet near you and you can manage to get there, take the puppy in at your earliest convenience for a checkup. The vet may have some vitamin supplements you could give her.

It sounds like your printer box crate has helped. But if you didn't leave the top on it when you made it, it would be good to get another box if you can and just cut a doorway in the front. Puppies like to be surrounded, like in a cave, it helps them feel safer.

And by all means, either go out on the balcony when you come home to check on the puppy, or bring her inside . Hold her and play with her each time you're home, she really does need that interaction! And pee or no pee, bring her in when you get home from work each day and let her stay with you.

And finally, to repeat what others have said, for the sake of the puppy you really should take her to live with your parents, as these dogs are very large when they grow up. If you have lots of time and spaces nearby where the dog can run and play it could work having a big dog in an apartment, but it will take a lot of work and time on your part.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

thegsd said:


> okay I have this "idea" and I hope it is not another reckless idea of mine. There is a cat that stays near the residence and do actually let me get close to him. I'm thinking maybe of catching him and joining him to the dog? He is an old cat but a small one (same size as pup). Could he be harmful?


Don't do that. Royal Canin would be a huge improvement.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Okay, here are the brands where there seems to be lots of items (there are lots of brands but these seem to be the most popular)

Royal Canine
Pet Safe
Josera
Gheda
Camon
Beaphar


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'll defer to someone with actual experience with young puppies, but would a puppy milk replacement be a good idea if OP can find it?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

The only one I've heard of is Royal Canin and I know they make some puppy formula's in cans. This is still a keep your fingers crossed plan, don't get me wrong. Just because she drank what you offered and ate the meat, doesn't really mean she was weaned from mom and ready for all this.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

WateryTart said:


> I'll defer to someone with actual experience with young puppies, but would a puppy milk replacement be a good idea if OP can find it?


Probably. 4 weeks is right about when you start weaning them, but they are still nursing.


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

Try using some Goats milk, it is very rich and we give it to our pups while they are nursing as a supplement. 

Also try soaking some puppy kibble (we use IAMS) in the goats milk and slowly introduce some raw meat, you can also add a small amount of plain yogurt.

Good luck


Kim


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Pirates Lair said:


> Try using some Goats milk, it is very rich and we give it to our pups while they are nursing as a supplement.
> 
> Also try soaking some puppy kibble (we use IAMS) in the goats milk and slowly introduce some raw meat, you can also add a small amount of plain yogurt.
> 
> ...


Is raw meat a bad idea at this age? I gave her one yesterday and she was crazy about it and ate it all.


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

thegsd said:


> Is raw meat a bad idea at this age? I gave her one yesterday and she was crazy about it and ate it all.



At this point it cannot hurt, your dog is in dire need of protein and calcium. Goats milk is a rich supplement and cheap plain yogurt will also help.

You really don't have any other options other than returning the pup to it's mother, whom I suspect is in worse shape. Or just keep reading about what you should be doing right now and getting beat up on a forum.

Good luck, I hope things work out for the pup, please consider notifying your local SPCA/Animal Control to check on your pups remaining siblings and mother.



Kim


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thegsd said:


> okay I have this "idea" and I hope it is not another reckless idea of mine. There is a cat that stays near the residence and do actually let me get close to him. I'm thinking maybe of catching him and joining him to the dog? He is an old cat but a small one (same size as pup). Could he be harmful?


the cat will flee and the fleas will stay

crazy idea


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

carmspack said:


> the cat will flee and the fleas will stay
> 
> crazy idea


I don't know about fleeing because I live in the 4th floor and there is not something to attach to. I know cat crawl walls like spiderman but I think it is unlikely. My only worry if she hurts the puppy.


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## SteelesMom (May 7, 2017)

Please refrain from trapping another animal on your balcony. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Putting a cat on your balcony with such a young pup is absolutely insane. I cannot believe that even when you are home you still leave the puppy on the balcony!!! This as animal cruelty. No one should get a puppy if they only have one hour out of the day to see the dog...crazy


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

I really hate to say this but I hope to god this is a troll and not actually happening


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

bkernan said:


> I really hate to say this but I hope to god this is a troll and not actually happening



As do I , but erring on the side of caution is sometimes okay. Afterall it is always about the dog, not you or me, egos , titles or even trolls.....just the dog.....Yes?



Kim


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

konathegsd said:


> Putting a cat on your balcony with such a young pup is absolutely insane. I cannot believe that even when you are home you still leave the puppy on the balcony!!! This as animal cruelty. No one should get a puppy if they only have one hour out of the day to see the dog...crazy


The cat WILL jump to get away from being trapped on your balcony and possibly break its legs. It also may scratch your puppy's eyes. Don't do it.


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

Always always I totally agree. My first response I didn't really understand the gravity because I thought he had to be mistaken and he wasn't actually leaving a baby on a balcony. I don't know I guess im so horrified as I stand here with a thrown out spawning back throwing a ball for my puppy in lovely green grass that someone would do that. Ugh. I hope everything turns out


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

bkernan said:


> Always always I totally agree. My first response I didn't really understand the gravity because I thought he had to be mistaken and he wasn't actually leaving a baby on a balcony. I don't know I guess im so horrified as I stand here with a thrown out spawning back throwing a ball for my puppy in lovely green grass that someone would do that. Ugh. I hope everything turns out


A chuck it saved my back and shoulder. Size xl


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You can fix this. 

Take her back the the breeder. She belongs with her dam and littermates. She is too young to be away from them. 

She may be quieting down because she may be getting ill. She can be depressed. 

Imagine this. 

It is dark, it is warm, there is a big warm something next to me, and I can move just so, and this glorious warm stuff comes out, and there are these little warm somethings next to me, and we sleep all on top of each other. At first we do not walk, we kind of push off with our back legs, and swim with our front legs. We pound the big warm thing and the liquid comes and all is good. We make noise (that we cannot hear yet) and the big warm thing knows how to make everything good again. 

In a few days we are really good at pumping out the liquid good stuff. Sometimes we push the littler somethings off and get theirs too. Sometimes we fall asleep in a heap. and sometimes we spread out a little. Still crawling. 

A couple of days later, we are starting thave slits in our eyes but still can't see, we are taking some steps, we are drinking more and more, and the big warm something is everything in the world that is wonderful and good. 

A few days later our eyes and ears are starting to open. We don't see all that well. Our eyes are blue, whatever that means. We are walking down. We fall down, and still sleep in heaps. The little warm things are always there, even when the big warm thing is missing. 

A few days later our eyes and ears are open and we can see and hear. We look for the big warm thing all the time. She wants to get away because we scratch her in tender areas. But she is ok with whatever we do, and comes often to feed us, and mostly cleans after us too. The little warm things are moving about like us, and we are beginning to notice who is easy to push around and who is going to push me around. We begin to play with each other. We are starting to play with toys. Mostly we like being with Mom and with the others. There are big 2-legged things that pick us up and move us around and stuff. We like them. They bring food and stuff. But we like our buddies best. Well, best after Mom. 

A day in the life of a 4-week-old puppy:
6:00 AM: I'm awake! Wake up!!! Good morning world!!! Good morning brothers!!! Good morning Sisters!!! Good morning Mom!!!! Milk bar is open!!! Where is that 2-legged thing with the warm mushy stuff??? Wake up!!! Wake up!!! Time to get up and give us our food!!!!

6:02 AM: I hear those funny sounds that mean the 2-legged thing is going to get us the mushy stuff! Yay!!! She's up!!! Mushy stuff!!!! 

6:08 AM Here it comes!!! Move over Bubba, my spot is there next to Sis! Food, Oops kind of stepped in it and slipped and now I am covered with mushy stuff. Someone is making weird sounds. Oh yes, there is Mom's big wet thing! That will make everything better! Time to poop!!! 

6:12AM Run, run, run... There's a tail! Yay! Pull the tail! Ouch! someone has my ear! There is that squeaky thing, rolling over, and over. Tugging with Sis.... Tugging.... Tugging...... zzzzzz

8:15 Yawn, pee. run to see if the milk bar is open. Mom!!!! Where are you!?! There's Sis, and Bubba and Pookie and all the others. Run, play. and sleep. 


Repeat this several times. They are NEVER alone at four weeks. Never. They are with their dam and their littermates. They feel confident in their litter. They are safe in the litter, with their dam. They are not expected to spend hours crying. hours alone. 

If you do not take her back to the breeder -- NOT a shelter, she could very well die. The puppy NEEDS another 2 weeks at least with her dam and littermates. If you can contrive to take her back and wait until she is ready to come home, then please do so. She will most likely perish in a shelter. She is susceptible to all forms of disease and dangers. She is also lost and alone. If you take her back right away, she may be ok. 

When she is 8 weeks old, she will belong inside with her new pack, not outside on her own singing to the neighbors about how lost and alone and lonely she is. 

Be an adult and make this right.


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

Well stated, Selzer. What terrifies me most is that someone can actually not even realize that what they are doing is so wrong, on so many levels. Unbelievable. I am literally at a loss for words. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Perhaps if you actually visited the developing world you'd understand?

The OP here is trying to do the right thing. Help, not horror or indignation, might be more appropriate?!

Every day in the world people are living and dying in much worse circumstances than this puppy is in right now...


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> Perhaps if you actually visited the developing world you'd understand?


I just recently spent 6 weeks in developing/third world countries, including remote Western Uganda... and _never_ saw the likes of this. You ought to be, like the rest of us, upset and disturbed by the poor choices made up to this point. We can only hope this person does the right thing in the end... take the dog back to the breeder. And before ever making another attempt to acquire a puppy, do a LOT of research first. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

@thegsd

Since you've said you can't take the puppy back to the breeder...

Treat this puppy as you'd treat a human newborn. It will get cold and scared easily, will constantly be hungry, will want to be somewhere safe to sleep, and will want to be around something alive and warm (you) as much as possible.

So, focus on basic needs:

1. Food (see what someone mentioned about goat milk, etc)
2. Shelter (some reasonably small space (like your printer box) that is dimly lit and full of soft things to lay on--if you can make those soft things warm, even better)
3. Lots of attention and handling

I don't know your work/school situation, but maybe you can bring the puppy with you? If nothing else, to keep it nearby and give attention on a regular basis throughout the day.

All I know is that little furball wants to be around nice, warm, living things that take care of it and give it attention.

This may sound strange depending on your culture. I know some cultures don't see dogs like family members. If that is the case for you, you need to make an exception. The puppy simply isn't old enough to understand that it's time for it to grow up and learn to be alone. It's too young to even comprehend the concept of "alone". That'll take at least two months more before you can begin to entertain and introduce that idea. Even then, you have to do so slowly.

So make that exception. Give it extra attention and care. It'll pay off in the long run when you have a healthy, hardy, and level-headed adult dog.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

thegsd said:


> Sorry for not posting pics about the puppy and introducing myself.
> 
> Here is the case: I live in an apartment building, mostly families. This is my first time to get a puppy. So since the puppy will pee anywhere, I need to put her on the balcony especially that my apartment is small. The issue is that the puppy got scared (she was with her mother + 10 other siblings) when I put her there and she freaked out :|
> 
> ...


There is absolutely nothing in this post that I do not find appalling. Let me be crystal clear, you deserve every bit of the grief and condemnation you are getting. Your ONLY response should be "Hey I really screwed up and I really need you guys to help me fix this so I can give this puppy a good life"
At 4-5 weeks this pup should be eating at least 4 times a day. I like shredded meat with puppy formula at that age. I prefer powdered formula for just one pup, the canned will spoil quickly once opened. If you use powdered make sure to use clean water when mixing.
Water is so important. Young puppies dehydrate very quickly and it can turn fatal alarmingly fast. Since you have taken her away from mom, find a way to ensure that she has access to clean water at all times.
Keep her warm and dry. Give her a safe place to be sleeping. And she NEEDS contact and cuddling. As much contact as humanly possible. It is important for her mental development. 
If you must leave her on a balcony ensure that she is safe from predators and parasites. A decent sized bird can kill a puppy. 
Get her to a vet. Have her checked thoroughly for parasites, infections or injuries. 

Quiet puppies make me nervous. Especially if they suddenly get quiet. Watch for changes in mood or behavior. Sudden decreases in activity level or lethargy are signals of potential serious problems and should be addressed by a vet quickly

I can tell you that if you "can't stand" the smell of puppy pee you should not have a dog. Over the course of its life a dog will have occasional accidents in your home, and vomit in the doorway at least once so that you step in it, preferably in your bare feet. They like to roll in and eat disgusting things, and all of my dogs have belched in my face or farted on my bed. They are DOGS!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You should read a couple of those crate training threads Sabis. They can't fart in your face or belch in your bed from there.


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

camperbc said:


> I just recently spent 6 weeks in developing/third world countries, including remote Western Uganda... and _never_ saw the likes of this. You ought to be, like the rest of us, upset and disturbed by the poor choices made up to this point. We can only hope this person does the right thing in the end... take the dog back to the breeder. And before ever making another attempt to acquire a puppy, do a LOT of research first.
> 
> Glen
> Focus On Newfoundland


I have spent 25 years touching base with developing/third world countries. Keeping dogs on balconies is nothing new, as is the shocking diet these dogs are fed. There is a growing trend for pedigree dogs but the knowledge is not up to speed. On the plus side over the years, there has been an increase in vet surgeries and rightly or wrongly, rescue centres. But at least these dogs have more options but it is a slow process.

To the OP, yes you have had a lot of flack from this thread but you have also had some really good advise. Please take it.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Don't have much time to give you an update and quote your replies but I went today and bought this: https://www.royalcanin.co.uk/products/dog/size-health-nutrition/medium/babydog-milk/

She didn't want to drink it through the baby bottle so I mixed it up with the dinner and she drank it with the food (I bought it too from Royal Canin which is a mix of beaf/rice).

We went today outside for around an hour to a hill nearby. She was very happy and I can see it on her face :smile2:

I'll update tomorrow more.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Good choice. I think she could use that milk for another week or so, then she should be ok on the food alone as long as she's eating good. Just for future reference, my last 4 dogs have come home at 7 weeks. That's the earliest you should take them.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> You should read a couple of those crate training threads Sabis. They can't fart in your face or belch in your bed from there.


Lol. All my dogs have been crate train. But I sleep better with a furry bed warmer.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If the breeder is your friend, your friend ought to let you return the puppy for a few weeks. Take the puppy food with you and give him some money for boarding your puppy with his dam and littermates. 

These are pack animals. They should not be alone for this many hours a day, especially this young. Adult GSDs might be fine with just a human companion, but even as an adult, most do better in pairs -- not littermates. Usually a younger dog and an older bitch, and vice versa. If they do have canine companions, they may not bond as tightly to humans. A lot of times though, a dog bonds excellently with their humans whether they have a canine companion or not. And sometimes a dog that is totally reliant on a human companion, develops unhealthy and annoying separation anxiety. 

What I am saying is not to get another dog. But to take your baby-puppy back to its dam and wait another month. Then, when you bring your puppy home, you will need to rearrange you life somewhat so that your puppy gets more than an hour per day of you-time. It needs 6-8 hours of your time every day, beyond sleeping where she can hear your breathing. Some people can kennel a pup in a garage, laundry room or bathroom for the night. And the pups generally grow up ok, but a lot of those people have more people, other dogs, or simply more people time for the dog. 

Quality over quantity, when it comes to time, only goes so far. Because dogs live in the moment. If being with you is engaging and fun, and works her instincts and mind and body, that might help a little bit, but when she is alone, it doesn't change that fact, that she is totally alone. That is not how they are made. 

So if you can include her when you are cooking, when you are eating, when you are watching TV or playing on the internet, when you are relaxing, and you take her out regularly to potty and to exercise and play -- and training -- given the pup is 8 weeks and above, then when you are sleeping, if her crate is next to your bed, she can rest in the security of your presence. 

Given that, at 8 weeks and above, she should be able to handle the 4-5 hours that you are at work, between morning and lunch, and between afternoon and the time you get off. 

This is a little life with a very intelligent brain, personality, and emotional span that you have brought into you life. It is not gerbil or goldfish that will live caged or in an aquarium that will survive off of whatever attention you give it. Dogs are a higher form of animal than a gerbil or fish or reptile. They can provide us with more in the way of a companion, but they also require more of us. 

You may seriously consider whether it makes sense for you to keep a puppy at this point in your life. I certainly believe it is doable, but you have to commit to changing how you view critters, and how you manage your time. What you allow in your home. 

As for regulating its body heat, at four weeks the pup has its adult body temperature and can manage quite well in that respect. 

Without knowing the vaccine status of the dam we cannot make any determination about how well protected the pup is from its dam's immunity. I would keep it away from all other dogs for 2-3 weeks more and then get its first set of shots. I would STILL keep it away from other dogs for another 4 weeks and get a second set of shots. Beyond the second set of shots, a more pressing deal is ensuring that canine incidents are not negative. So if you have any reservations at all, do not allow her to meet particular dogs. Because good associations she will carry forward into her life, but also bad associations. Up through 16-18 weeks this is true. After that it is to a much lesser extent. For example, getting a bloody bite at 7 weeks can cause lasting damage, where getting one at 6 months probably won't, if the dog otherwise has a good temperament.

Please take this puppy back and sit on your hands for a month. Spend that hour a day learning all you can about raising puppies and training dogs. Go and visit the pup and litter, it will be beneficial to both your puppy, the breeders other puppies. You will see how much fun puppies have with each other. It will make you want to bring 2 home -- don't do this. That is a different mistake.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with taking that puppy BACK to the breeder,,and I use the term breeder loosely because a reputable breeder would not let a 4wk old puppy go..Also your asking for this puppy to pick up all kinds of diseases by taking it out and about,...return it, or that puppy may lose it's little life either from disease or lack of correct care


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

thegsd said:


> Don't have much time to give you an update and quote your replies but I went today and bought this: https://www.royalcanin.co.uk/products/dog/size-health-nutrition/medium/babydog-milk/
> 
> She didn't want to drink it through the baby bottle so I mixed it up with the dinner and she drank it with the food (I bought it too from Royal Canin which is a mix of beaf/rice).
> 
> ...


Much better. Good progress.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> Lol. All my dogs have been crate train. But I sleep better with a furry bed warmer.


My wife may think that too, she's just a little more careful about what she feeds me. Maybe cut back on the beans?


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

She is now using the Potty but I found today that she messed it up the night before by scratching all the sheets. :|

I gave her the remains of a chicken today and she enjoyed it. I also noticed that her ears are up now :smile2:

I don't know why some guys insist on using "CAPS" and telling to get her back to her breeder. I already explained that it is not possible, and I don't want to get into the reasons why. Thanks for everyone who helped though.

Also I don't see why going out with her is "dangerous". It's still much safer than the place where she come from.

I'll post pics in the next couple days.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I would stick to the commercial foods if I was you. Giving her all these different things like chicken remains, if something makes her sick you're going to have a problem not only figuring out what, but having to nurse a sick puppy thats so young back to good health isn't something you want to do.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Steve Strom said:


> I would stick to the commercial foods if I was you. Giving her all these different things like chicken remains, if something makes her sick you're going to have a problem not only figuring out what, but having to nurse a sick puppy thats so young back to good health isn't something you want to do.


I thought the bones are quite an entertainment to her?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Till you get a blockage. A lot of what I'm saying has to do with you not having any puppy experience combined with her age. Meet her nutritional needs in the simplest way possible for now.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

thegsd said:


> She is now using the Potty but I found today that she messed it up the night before by scratching all the sheets. :|
> 
> I gave her the remains of a chicken today and she enjoyed it. I also noticed that her ears are up now :smile2:


Were the bones cooked?


> I don't know why some guys insist on using "CAPS" and telling to get her back to her breeder. I already explained that it is not possible, and I don't want to get into the reasons why. Thanks for everyone who helped though.


People are using caps for emphasis, because you have out this pup into a very DANGEROUS situation. 



> Also I don't see why going out with her is "dangerous". It's still much safer than the place where she come from.
> 
> I'll post pics in the next couple days.


Going out with her is dangerous because of diseases that live in the ground and water she will encounter. Things like Parvo, Distemper, Giardia, Campylobactera, Coccida, Hook worms, Round Worms, Tape Worms, ETC.

Puppies that are brought up by responsible breeders stay with an immunized mother until proper weaning time (and a bit beyond that) and they get protection from the mother's antibodies through drinking her milk. They stay with mom in what should be a clean disease free place while their immune systems build and then they themselves are given shots and dewormings starting around 6 weeks...

Because this didn't happen for this pup, she needs to be treated as immuno-compromised. You have to be VERY careful of what she is exposed to until after her last round of shots. 

These diseases can be horrible and even kill a proper aged puppy. With your girl being so small, under developed, and with a weak immune system due to her age - contracting one of these diseases can be devastating. You could take her to the park this afternoon, she picks up a germ, she will appear fine tomorrow morning before you go to work... but can DIE OF DEHYDRATION within the hours you are working from vomiting and diarrhea. Small pups dehydrate quickly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sometimes we things are not possible without even trying. Take this puppy back where she belongs, with her mother. 

If your puppy survives to 8 weeks, she will probably have behavioral issues down the line, health and nutritional issues down the line. And it will be entirely your fault. Well, right now it is the fault of both you and the breeder. But with every day that goes by, it becomes more and more, solely your fault. You know what the right thing to do is. And now there are no excuses not to do it. Others will give you a pass as to why you, an anonymous person on a public forum does not want to discuss facts that no one could ever put together with the individual breeder, but I won't. 

Take the puppy back home. If you stole this puppy, take it back, and face the music.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Guys, all if you are right, the puppy should have stayed with the dam. But this hasn't happened and it looks like it is not coming back to the dam. In such case wouldn't be better to give the OP the best advice (apart from take the pup back to the breeder which won't be followed anyway) to increase the chances of pups survival? 
As far as I recall from my experience, I spent TONS of time with my dog, kept him warm, made him a very comfy bed and wasn't bothered with the amount of pee and poo on the floor. I was feeding him with some human baby food and milk first, but slowly transitioned him into solids and completely weaned by 6 weeks. He got vaccinated at 3 and 3.5 months but he was extremely lucky not to catch any disease. He also had a playmate sibling. Just to remind you that these two pups were brought as a gift to me and my bestie when we were teens, I presume they were born on a farm. The dog ended up fine, but it was a lot of hard work. He died to a bloat at the age of 8...


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

selzer said:


> Sometimes we things are not possible without even trying. Take this puppy back where she belongs, with her mother.
> 
> If your puppy survives to 8 weeks, she will probably have behavioral issues down the line, health and nutritional issues down the line. And it will be entirely your fault. Well, right now it is the fault of both you and the breeder. But with every day that goes by, it becomes more and more, solely your fault. You know what the right thing to do is. And now there are no excuses not to do it. Others will give you a pass as to why you, an anonymous person on a public forum does not want to discuss facts that no one could ever put together with the individual breeder, but I won't.
> 
> Take the puppy back home. If you stole this puppy, take it back, and face the music.


It is clear this is either not possible or simply not happening for the OP. Face the music and work with the facts and information before you. Crowing the same thing post after post is not going to do anything more than the first, or even second, post you've made on the subject. Consider the "please take the puppy back to the breeder" message received loud and clear.

You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And dragging that horse to the water over and over will not make it drink, either.

Sorry, selzer. I know you're passionate about this subject and the situation clearly bothers you as it does everyone else in the thread. But going so far as to suggest the OP stole the puppy is just...despicable. Seriously.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

selzer said:


> Take the puppy back home. * If you stole this puppy*, take it back, and face the music.



seriously?


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Kyrielle said:


> Sorry, selzer. I know you're passionate about this subject and the situation clearly bothers you as it does everyone else in the thread.


You know what bothers me? People speaking from authority. Take the puppy BACK. The puppy MUST GO BACK!

Even if we agree that humans are sacred, dogs are part of the animals species.

People here need to stop thinking that they have higher morals values. There are no "higher moral values", it's all stuff you read/watched on TV. Well, unless you believe in God then I can't really argue with you.

You understand that even if you are a vegetarian your dog survive on other species. So somehow it is fine to kill that chicken and deprives the babies in a huge big complex but if that happens to a dog, oh no, that's totally wrong!

Stop thinking that your emotional instabilities are higher moral values.

But that's not the point of this thread. I asked for advice on handling a young puppy. So thanks for those who contributed.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

In such case wouldn't be better to give the OP the best advice (apart from take the pup back to the breeder which won't be followed anyway) to increase the chances of pups survival? 

hmmmm Okay . Let someone else take care of the dog . 

wondering what the drama was with acquiring this pup. Selzer may not be far off - maybe that or barter.

and then you read ----

"You know what bothers me? People speaking from authority. Take the puppy BACK. The puppy MUST GO BACK!

Even if we agree that humans are sacred, dogs are part of the animals species.

People here need to stop thinking that they have higher morals values. There are no "higher moral values", it's all stuff you read/watched on TV. Well, unless you believe in God then I can't really argue with you.

You understand that even if you are a vegetarian your dog survive on other species. So somehow it is fine to kill that chicken and deprives the babies in a huge big complex but if that happens to a dog, oh no, that's totally wrong!

Stop thinking that your emotional instabilities are higher moral values.

But that's not the point of this thread. I asked for advice on handling a young puppy. So thanks for those who contributed."


this is not a piece of merchandise 

you took on responsibility - seems that you were the one that pushed for getting her this young

"I got it from a friend. Actually, I wanted to get it from the first day she was born but now I'm glad he resisted and fixed 4 weeks"

from the first day -- so you know this "friend" , probably for some time - and now you can't negotiate with him anymore ?

the pup will out grow your small apartment and SMALLER balcony and the other tenants of the building are already very upset 

what does that future look like ?


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

thegsd said:


> You know what bothers me? People speaking from authority... Even if we agree that humans are sacred, dogs are part of the animals species. People here need to stop thinking that they have higher morals values. There are no "higher moral values", it's all stuff you read/watched on TV. Well, unless you believe in God then I can't really argue with you. You understand that even if you are a vegetarian your dog survive on other species. So somehow it is fine to kill that chicken and deprives the babies in a huge big complex but if that happens to a dog, oh no, that's totally wrong! Stop thinking that your emotional instabilities are higher moral values. But that's not the point of this thread...


WOW. Just _WOW!_ It is clear that this person needs serious help, and I am at a total loss as to what more anyone here on this forum can do for this confused, uncaring and completely messed up soul, let alone the poor dog that the OP cares absolutely nothing about. This is painfully obvious, and is why so many posters are so upset. I only wish we knew where this puppy could be located, to at least see that it gets a fighting chance. The OP has made it quite clear in this most recent (strange and disturbing) post that they are not even willing to listen to reason, and obviously do not want advice in any form. Which begs the question... why bother posting on here in the first place. Terribly sad story indeed. 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


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## Evohog (Jul 18, 2017)

thegsd said:


> You know what bothers me? People speaking from authority. Take the puppy BACK. The puppy MUST GO BACK!
> 
> Even if we agree that humans are sacred, dogs are part of the animals species.
> 
> ...


WOW. 
The more I read posts from the op, the more I think we are getting trolled. 
Still haven't seen a picture of the pup.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Evohog said:


> WOW.
> The more I read posts from the op, the more I think we are getting trolled.
> Still haven't seen a picture of the pup.


At this point I hope so


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> At this point I hope so


I guess it is better to lock this thread now. You can see the puppy early on the conversation I posted a pic.

I'll post pics on the pictures section tomorrow. She has grown a bit now and her ears are up.

She is now using the potty and I'm letting her roam in the apartment while I'm there. She is biting everything but I'm ignoring it for this while since it is not harmful.

I can assure she was happy today, scrolling around and fetching objects and playing with them.


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

thegsd said:


> I guess it is better to lock this thread now. You can see the puppy early on the conversation I posted a pic.


I must have missed this photo. Can someone please point me to it? 

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

There is a thread lock in near future for sure.
However, you came here asking how to stop a 4 week old puppy from crying. You got THE BEST advice on that quandary. Bring the pup back to it's dam for 4 more weeks.
You have been given many why's and what reasons for this advice.
Immunity/health, behaviour, emotional stability, the pups need to be with it's pack (human or dog), the why's of NOT taking out into the big bad world (disease) and the impact has on neighbours living on a balcony as well as only having ONE hour a day with the pup....


None of the members can understand WHY you took this pup so young and you are not helping them understand this.
None can understand WHY you cannot return temporarily, and you will not help with that either


No one asked for your address. Country disclosed would help us understand.
You are very well written in English. Articulate. Although feeding "biscuits" may suggest India (?) 


SO please do not refer to advice as people "thinking they have higher moral values"....They do. AND they ARE EXPERTS...And they are trying to drive it home, if not for you and this poor little puppy who was yanked away too young, then at least for the next person who comes along thinking they too can do as you have done.


What's the pups name?


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

camperbc said:


> I must have missed this photo. Can someone please point me to it?
> 
> Glen
> Focus On Newfoundland


I reuploaded last week photos for you: https://imgur.com/a/mm8eP


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

thegsd said:


> You know what bothers me? People speaking from authority. Take the puppy BACK. The puppy MUST GO BACK!
> 
> Even if we agree that humans are sacred, dogs are part of the animals species.
> 
> ...


You have no room to be so defensive. Stop it RIGHT NOW. If you can't take the pup back to its mom and littermates, you should HUMBLY ask a vet for guidance, because making the wrong choices now will have serious consequences for this poor pup later in life.


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> There is a thread lock in near future for sure.
> However, you came here asking how to stop a 4 week old puppy from crying. You got THE BEST advice on that quandary. Bring the pup back to it's dam for 4 more weeks.
> You have been given many why's and what reasons for this advice.
> Immunity/health, behaviour, emotional stability, the pups need to be with it's pack (human or dog), the why's of NOT taking out into the big bad world (disease) and the impact has on neighbours living on a balcony as well as only having ONE hour a day with the pup....


The puppy no longer makes any noise, also I think she is getting comfortable with her new environment. I have already mentioned that my new environment is way better (hygiene and security-wise) than the one where she come from or that of my family (for example, we never vaccinated dogs in the family farm. might be surprising to you but they have been raising dogs for over 20 years without any medical care)

But part of the reason why I locked the pup in the balcony is that I need her to be comfortable with my lifestyle. If it doesn't work long-term, I'll bring her to the farm.



> None of the members can understand WHY you took this pup so young and you are not helping them understand this.
> None can understand WHY you cannot return temporarily, and you will not help with that either


It'll lengthen and complicate the discussion without bringing any changes to the dog.



> No one asked for your address. Country disclosed would help us understand.
> You are very well written in English. Articulate. Although feeding "biscuits" may suggest India (?)


Biscuits is French.



> SO please do not refer to advice as people "thinking they have higher moral values"....They do. AND they ARE EXPERTS...And they are trying to drive it home, if not for you and this poor little puppy who was yanked away too young, then at least for the next person who comes along thinking they too can do as you have done.


I know there are experts here which is why I posted my question. But please understand that morals are relative and not related to expertise. And more importantly not the subject of this thread.



> What's the pups name?


I named her "Summer".

Also it'd help if people here stop using Uppercase. It doesn't give me any sense of urgency and just makes text more difficult to read.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

thegsd said:


> It'll lengthen and complicate the discussion without bringing any changes to the dog.


Try us.



thegsd said:


> I know there are experts here which is why I posted my question. But please understand that morals are relative and not related to expertise. And more importantly not the subject of this thread.


BUT, expertise lets you more critically and effectively weigh information to make better choices. And I think morals DO become relevant when you are talking about the welfare of a puppy FAR too young to leave its dam and littermates. Like unequivocally too young.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

thegsd said:


> The puppy no longer makes any noise, also I think she is getting comfortable with her new environment.


Or she has gotten incredibly depressed from her isolation. 

Are you familiar with the Harlow experiments? Dr. Harlow did various experiments on social isolation and maternal-infant separation in rhesus monkeys. 

The results were clear that social isolation and maternal separation has incredibly damaging effects. Sometimes for life. 






Yes, these are experiments done on monkeys... However monkeys and dogs do share one very important similarity - They BOTH are very socially oriented species that bond closely with their family groups and have rich emotional lives.

Leaving your young pup alone on a balcony for 23 hours a day is inhumane and detrimental to her development.



> But part of the reason why I locked the pup in the balcony is that I need her to be comfortable with my lifestyle. If it doesn't work long-term, I'll bring her to the farm.


This is easy. NO dog is going to thrive with your lifestyle. ESPECIALLY not a young puppy. Being banished to the balcony and getting so little of your time each day is not healthy.

This dog NEEDS to be with a pack. She needs to be inside while you sleep where she can see you, smell you, and hear you (You can crate her in your bedroom) she needs to cuddled with you often (a few hours a day) you took her away from her pack and are responsible to provide these things. Along with play, an appropriate diet, and mental stimulation.



> Also it'd help if people here stop using Uppercase. It doesn't give me any sense of urgency and just makes text more difficult to read.


Yeah.. You need to get that sense of urgency because what you are doing to this pup is dangerous and inhumane. 

You've socially isolated her, exposed her to disease, did not provide an appropriate diet and still just don't seem to get it. 

It borders on outright cruelty.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Well, I think you should take her to the family farm then:wink2:sounds like this would be in her best interest.
And I am not a vaccine advocate. At least if the pup had stayed with the dam.


Good luck handling an 80 lb GSD that hasn't been taught by it's littermates how to behave like a dog. And good luck with future vet bills when this dogs musculoskeletal system is failing, or it's vital organs cannot handle the detox load of all the drugs that will be dumped in it b/c of the health issues it will come across.


Good luck to the puppy who seems will be a fixture on a balcony, looking through glass, wagging it's tail to say hey what about me? 
Too many people get a dog and chain it in the back yard, never to be walked, played with, loved, trained, petted. This is the same. This is not dog ownership. This is I own a dog. And I will do as I see fit.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is your first pup .

this is not good -- "I'm letting her roam in the apartment while I'm there. She is biting everything but I'm ignoring it for this while since it is not harmful."

don't let her bite up everything . Ignoring is lazy , or in French , laissez-faire .
Biscuits is not French -- biscuits is British english , for kibbles. Bickys.

The "farm" . Many farms are far from some bucolic ideal -- tough life . 

We had one other poster with a pup stuck on a balcony . Then the story changed to a pent-house .
Pent-house has a balcony?
Maybe this is a troll.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

*If this turns into off-topic arguing it will be closed. 
*

Reminder to everyone - Making assumptions isn't helpful.
@thegsd , if you provide some more facts, that helps members here make useful recommendations.

If you are comfortable sharing your general location, there may be someone here with specific recommendations of resources available near you. There are many members who log in and read the forum every day. There are members from different states, different countries, raising puppies and dogs in different circumstances, but lots of them rarely comment. It doesn't mean that they won't read your post and be able to offer something helpful.

Availability of animal food/nutrition products, importance of certain vaccines or preventative health care measures, and so much more, varies by region. The more facts that are provided, the better information you can hope to receive in return. Nothing personal is needed - just facts that pertain to the puppy.


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

I think your all beating a Dead horse here.

Time to let this go, the OP asked for some advice and was given some good advice, and apparently has acted on that advice.




Kim


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## thegsd (Sep 19, 2017)

carmspack said:


> this is your first pup .
> 
> this is not good -- "I'm letting her roam in the apartment while I'm there. She is biting everything but I'm ignoring it for this while since it is not harmful."
> 
> ...


It is the first couple days I let her in. So I don't want to be too hard on her. Plus I still haven't bought her toys. I guess it'd be better to buy her toys first, mark them and then prohibit her from biting anything but her toys.

She got it tonight played for a while and got tired really fast and then got out again to her little box. I like the fact that she has learned that she lives/sleeps on the balcony, that's her place.

I'm not getting the penthouse story though.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I need to head off to the grocery store to pick up that chicken that someone killed a few days ago so I could prepare it for my dinner. 

So sorry, that I didn't want a little critter to die or be seriously damaged due to the selfish and ignorant actions of its current captor. 

But because I enjoy eating chickens and cows and pigs, I have no right to say anything about young puppies. I probably have more experience with puppies of this age than 90 or 95% of the people on this forum. But of course, I do keep them with the dam. Whatever. 

What's enlightening is that if the pup has issues down the line (AKA "doesn't fit in with my lifestyle"), it can be dumped on the farm/family. What a piece of work.


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## Diegotxe (Feb 26, 2015)

I don't understand people who get a pup or dog just to spend its life outside with little to no interaction. Then what's the point of even owning one?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

living on a balcony is not a life for a dog, and certainly not a 4week old puppy...Why not find someone who KNOWS what they are doing,and foster her out for a few weeks until she's old enough ? You are being quite selfish in thinking this is going to work with a 4 week old puppy, Since you won't/cant' return her to the so called breeder,,BE RESPONSIBLE, do whats right for this puppy...Take her to a vet and get some suggestions..i'll bet she hasn't been wormed yet BY A VET, which can also be life threatening.. Sorry but the cap words were to get my point across..You are not being responsible and being selfish by not taking some of the good advice given to you..Think of the puppy not yourself. Done.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

The puppy no longer makes any noise, also I think she is getting comfortable with her new environment. I have already mentioned that my new environment is way better (hygiene and security-wise) than the one where she come from or that of my family (for example, we never vaccinated dogs in the family farm. might be surprising to you but they have been raising dogs for over 20 years without any medical care)

But part of the reason why I locked the pup in the balcony is that I need her to be comfortable with my lifestyle. If it doesn't work long-term, I'll bring her to the farm.


You remind me of the people who surrender dogs because they no longer match the furniture. This puppy will not adapt to living on a balcony and being ignored.

Dogs don't get comfortable with your lifestyle, you adapt your lifestyle to dogs. That is just a fact. Over time you adjust to the ripped furniture and the hair and the drool. You learn about what squeaky toys look like inside and you adapt to forgoing clean floors for those with muddy footprints. You learn that clean jackets mean less then wagging tails, and you learn that dog slobber leaves fascinating patterns on car windows.
I have raised multiple pups that should have been with mom, but it takes a dedication and determination that you seem to lack. It means putting the puppy first and recruiting help by whatever means necessary. It means giving up the niceties of sleep and television and showering. It means reminding your tired self not to lick your fingers after wiping the mush off the spoon, and laughing when you do because sleep deprivation makes most things funny. Puppy food isn't so bad.
Maturity means admitting that you made a mistake and acknowledging that this little life does not deserve to pay for your foolishness.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

People have been raising dogs for thousands of years with no medical care. And likewise people have been around for thousands of years with virtually no medical care.

Just because it's been done and the species made it, doesn't mean that people and dogs living in 2017 should go backwards. Dogs and people suffered and died for lack of medical care, we now have access to vaccines, antibiotics, and surgeries. Not taking care of the dog, to the best of one's ability, using modern technology and medicine is simply wrong. OP is online, presumably has a computer and internet access, and can speak and read English well. Thus, he or she can find oodles of good information online. So not knowing how is not an excuse. Nor is "morality". Giving an animal good care is not a moral conundrum. 

I just Googled "caring for a 4-week old puppy", OP can do this, too. Have a read, lots of links and information.


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## Azws6 (Sep 16, 2017)

Ok i dont know whats your situation and all and im not here to judge.

there are alot of benefits in having such a young pup with its mother and litter mates.
1. The mother corrects the children. They might understand her better than you correcting her. (Based on assumptions) if you have an english speaking child and you trying to discourage such behaviors in chinese? It would take time.

2. The pup needs to learn bite inhibition. Look it up and you teach her that since sshe does not have her litter mates to rough play and know her limits. If you dont god forbids she does not know how stong her jaw is unintentionally bites.

3. I dont know how young is she now, but as a little nursing baby, would you take her outside knowing the risk of her getting a disease or a virus? Young pups are the same as young children, low immunity.

4. Not sure about her food when to wean and all that this is the breeders work. But soaking some kibble in water to soften it up works if all else fails. Dont give her anything her stomach is too sensitive. Just as i said, would you change a nursing childs diet frequently? The only time to change is when the current is not working well. 
Feed her commercial kibble soaked and see how it goes.

5. Please spend more time with her. It is very crucial at this age. Most behaviors are imprinted early on. Try to be easy on her shes just a pup. And her peeing everywhere is normal dont make a big deal out of it. 

Hope all works well and you give her a good life.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

This type of crap pisses me off to no end.


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