# Nice straight back vs Sloped back in American gsd



## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

Which dog would you prefer? The one with the "nice straight back" or the sloped backed show dog and why?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You know the sloped back is only sloped because of how the dog is stacked? Same dog would have a straight back if it was standing normally

Can you elaborate on the reason you are asking the question? Is it simply to probe the popularity of different aesthetics, or is is to separate lines into good and bad? 

And the slope in a dog comes from the rear angulation, and is not related to the back at all. 

And are you posting your own pictures? If they belong to someone else, do you have permission to post them?


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## misfits (Jan 13, 2011)

Is that a trick question? 'Cause it looks like the same dog...


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes don’t you have a asl. Odd question?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

It's the same dog, just stacked differently.

I think that's the point the poster is trying to make!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nice dog!


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> You know the sloped back is only sloped because of how the dog is stacked? Same dog would have a straight back if it was standing normally
> 
> Can you elaborate on the reason you are asking the question? Is it simply to probe the popularity of different aesthetics, or is is to separate lines into good and bad?
> 
> ...


all of this.

But taking the OP's question at face value, I very much prefer the American show line aesthetic. I like the fluid, streamlined look and motion of the dog in a trot. It's that simple, and just an opinion.

That's not to take away from how beautiful I think many of the working lines are. I've seen photos of gorgeous working line dogs that are beautiful athletes. My preference is just the overall look of the ASL dogs.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Good eye guys! It is the same dog.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I was wondering if it was the same dog, the coloring and the shape of the head seemed similar. 

Anyway, in answer to the OP's question, I think GSDs should have some angulation, but I do not prefer extremes in conformation or temperament.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

OK, I'll bite:

In general I prefer seeing a natural stack. Since I am not in the show ring I don't see the need to stretch my dog out into a show stack. It does tend to bring the head up higher into a more regal look. 

To compare it to people, do I want to see a pot belly hanging out and a slouch in a man, or do I want to see his gut sucked in and his shoulders up and back straight? Or do I want to see the the crazy pose to a body builder?


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

Yes, it is the same dog and yes she is mine. I am trying to prove a point here. Many people are led to believe that the gsd that they see stacked in a show stance have bad toplines and therefore prone to all sorts of issues as a result. There are breeders who take advantage of that and advertise their dogs as having "Nice straight backs" in order to sell their pups. As you can see in the beach photo Sophie has a very nice straight back and looks very different to the untrained eye in the show stance.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'll bite and add my own example. Same dog, stacked and not stacked.

Usual caveats apply: This dog is not a show dog, she is from show lines, she was not deemed to have enough rear angulation for the show ring (among other minor things, but mostly the lack of rear angulation). Also please excuse how very dirty she is - both of these photos were taken at the dog park, and the stacked photo is a free stack.


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

Sunsilver said:


> It's the same dog, just stacked differently.
> 
> I think that's the point the poster is trying to make!


That is exactly the point I am trying to make.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Caroline5 said:


> That is exactly the point I am trying to make.


I bet you can even show a roach back if you stack her differently. I think looking at the gait in a video would be "tie-breaker" as to what's the dog's "real" topline. But then if a dog is straining against the leash or running freely or going slow or fast can also affect its top line.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Here you go. Scarlet, a bit stretched out in the Group ring, as opposed to her Best of Breed photo. (I don’t have her official photo scanned yet, so I’m posting the proof).


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

dogfaeries said:


> Here you go. Scarlet, a bit stretched out in the Group ring, as opposed to her Best of Breed photo. (I don’t have her official photo scanned yet, so I’m posting the proof).


Beautiful!

I really do love the elegance of ASLs.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Oh, she's lovely, @dogfaeries! Thanks for sharing these photos.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

These ASL dogs seem to have a very straight nose. WGSL and WL dogs seem to often have a bump in the topline of their nose. Am I right?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Nurse Bishop said:


> These ASL dogs seem to have a very straight nose. WGSL and WL dogs seem to often have a bump in the topline of their nose. Am I right?


I always thought it was opposite. ASK with Roman noses. my white even has it a little


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> These ASL dogs seem to have a very straight nose. WGSL and WL dogs seem to often have a bump in the topline of their nose. Am I right?


Can you post a photo of a WGSL dog or WL dog that illustrates what you mean?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I wanna play. Same dog different stances. Notice the extreme slope in the second photo. But, in reality yes, a nice stack is pleasing to look at. But, that isn't the problem with showline dogs. The problem is breeding for extremes and breeding dogs that should never be bred solely for looks.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

was supposed to be ASL


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

not the best profile pic but you can kinda see the bose


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm very curious about what Nurse Bishop means. Here is the closest I could get to my dog (ASL/WGSL) in profile.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I think NB may have been referring to what I was told was predominantly in DDR/Czech lines. Just that little bump on the topline of the snout. I never questioned or even thought about it. Hopefully someone that knows will chime in. But, here is both of my Shepherd's.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Watery tart- She looks like she has a straight nose and is also part ASL. I am not being critical. All GSDs are beautiful.  Also European line dogs seem to have baggier lower lips toward the back- just my observation.

Now I am going to have to take a picture of Inga's snout.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Luna nose is pretty smooth she is a wgsl and max a asl has a bump in his nose like his mom. Luna has a little dip behind her wither. My pretty girl is a fast but max moves like a panther. I do favor his movement of all the gsds I ever had- asl. He is the sable.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

https://janedogs.com/dog-head-components/


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Watery tart- She looks like she has a straight nose and is also part ASL. I am not being critical. All GSDs are beautiful.  Also European line dogs seem to have baggier lower lips toward the back- just my observation.
> 
> Now I am going to have to take a picture of Inga's muzzle.


I knew you weren't being critical - I had just never noticed what you were referencing.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Jenny720 said:


> Luna nose is pretty smooth she is a wgsl and max a asl has a bump in his nose like his mom. Luna has a little dip behind her wither. My pretty girl is fast but max moves like a panther. I do favor his movement of all the gsds I ever had- asl. He is the sable.


My white dog has the same nose profile as your Max, Jenny. I can't find a pic that shows it well


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I always thought it was opposite. ASK with Roman noses. my white even has it a little


That has been my observations too, primarily ASL. None of working lines ever had it not that it matters to me.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Inga's snout. Note bump and baggy lips.







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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Luna nose is pretty smooth she is a wgsl and max a asl has a bump in his nose like his mom. Luna has a little dip behind her wither. My pretty girl is fast but max moves like a panther. I do favor his movement of all the gsds I ever had- asl. He is the sable.
> ...


I love that profile! Lol! Very asl. When he was s pup reminded me of a snoopy nose. I always thought it was a distinct trait in them but not really sure. Luna’s nose reminds me more of a gum drop type.


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## Solamar (Jan 25, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> These ASL dogs seem to have a very straight nose. WGSL and WL dogs seem to often have a bump in the topline of their nose. Am I right?


Here's my 14 MO WGSL girls nose. A bit of a bump -

Bit of a roach back too, but I sure do love her!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Is this a puppy? Looks like land shark teeth.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Inga's snout. Note bump and baggy lips.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can’t see the photo but max has baggy lips they are always an easy target for Luna to easily grab and she does grab max will sport a bloody lip now and then


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Inga is WGSLs and Croatian WLs


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Lol


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Here is Kaiser... he is WGSL

Bump and baggy lips


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## kekipi (Oct 31, 2016)

So interesting! Mahina has the little bump...it's not like a Roman nose on a horse, but just a slight bump on the last part of her snout. Hard to get a good picture of it though! I think she's got the baggy lips too lol.

I think she's mostly DDR, but I'm not an expert on the lines. I'll have to post her pedigree one of these days so I can get educated


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## pashana (Nov 18, 2015)

Baggy snout. Almost straight Back, DDR x somewhat showlines.
Other pure working line, east european. Not familiar with lines so much either.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

Mahina is looking beautiful kekipi. She is 1/2DDR (sire is 100%DDR) and 3/8WGWL, 1/8Czech (dam is 3/4WGWL, 1/4Czech) though the top line of the WGWL dam side comes down from famous DDR dogs and her Czech part also goes back to a who's who of famous DDR dogs, so technically she is over 50% DDR, maybe closer to 75%. The very dark or black sable color is a pretty reliable indicator of DDR origins. She has some gorgeous dogs back in her pedigree so no surprise that she is an awesome beauty as well. You can PM me if you want more info.


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

I think the original message I was trying to convey in this post has been totally lost.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Caroline5 said:


> I think the original message I was trying to convey in this post has been totally lost.


I do like your point. I was having a heck of an argument I gave up on. The lady was convinced any dog with a sloped back was mixed with ASL or ASL or Americanized dogs anyway because their breeder informed them those were the dogs with sloped backs. Her breeder also apparently just so happens to be the only breeder in the U.S. to have a contract with Germany to get 'true' german shepherds basically. Never mind the fact that WGSL are the ones with an actual sloped back, or the curved back. I showed her the image that has the silhouette with all the different types stacked and went right over her head. There is a crazy amount of misinformation in the general public. 
Also nice looking pup.


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

Kazel said:


> Caroline5 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the original message I was trying to convey in this post has been totally lost.
> ...


What does she mean "the only breeder to have a contract"? And thank you. Sophie is wonderful.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Caroline5 said:


> What does she mean "the only breeder to have a contract"? And thank you. Sophie is wonderful.


Basically she lies to people. I'm not sure I can fully explain it because I don't have all the details just what the person was saying. But it was along the lines of the breeder she got her dog from being the only person bringing this type of dog into the United States. It was a convoluted mess to be honest. Her dogs as far as I can tell are just some sort of working line, one is a sable and one is solid black. I couldn't find any mention of who the breeder is supposed to be connected to when I tried to search it up it, supposed to be a famous kennel or something from Germany I guess. Can't remember full name, Haus something or another.


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

Kazel said:


> Caroline5 said:
> 
> 
> > What does she mean "the only breeder to have a contract"? And thank you. Sophie is wonderful.
> ...


 Are you also in the PNW?


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Caroline5 said:


> I think the original message I was trying to convey in this post has been totally lost.


These threads some times take on a life of their own. Guess you reminded folks of the subtle and not so subtle differences between their dogs. I've seen many comments on backs and legs but no much about noses and lips before.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

OP, Sophie is beautiful. Her conformation doesn't look extreme to me at all. Do you show her?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes nice dogs on here nice asl’s a good thread.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Here is the kind bumped nose I was talking about.










I have heard of GSDs who's back slopes slightly downhill even when not stacked but have never seen one in person.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

This is more what I think of that I see so often in American Show lines.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I am seeing a lot of these rugged heads in the DDR line GSDs (with the help of google.) ASL appear more refined looking, also with the help of google.


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Here is the kind bumped nose I was talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 That has more to do with the legs than the back.


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## Caroline5 (Mar 18, 2016)

sebrench said:


> OP, Sophie is beautiful. Her conformation doesn't look extreme to me at all. Do you show her?


 Thank you, yes I plan on showing her. Sophie is well balanced and not extreme in the rear like many of the Specialty show gsd. She isn't long in stifle and all wobbly, she has a great rear. She is very intelligent and a very sweet temperament. Great with people but will protect if needed. She is exactly what I was looking for.


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## Trix (Jun 22, 2017)

It was mentioned on my dogs pic in another thread so I wanted to post here. My 7 month old ASL very much has the bump and baggy lips. 

I feel like the more noticeable differences between WL and ASL is the shape of the head. I feel like the WL dogs tend to have more of a square head vs the ASL haven’t a bit more of a “narrow” head shape (when viewed from the front) 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

American line males have been infamous for having 'bitchy' heads. It's very hard to tell the males from the females sometimes, though I have seen improvement in recent years!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Watery tart- She looks like she has a straight nose and is also part ASL. I am not being critical. All GSDs are beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You should not define bumps in noses and bumpy/baggy gums -flews -are what I think you are talking- to determine particular lines in a photo. There are notable differences in bone structure in a heads of different lines of gsd. When researching a pedigree all lines go back to the founding father of the German shepherd- max a asl also has has ddr blood way way back in his pedigree he is still a asl. As the same with Luna -she still is a West german showline. German Shepherds are not suppose to have overly loose flews. Any side photo of a dog opening his mouth will show bumpy gums -flews- the degree of loose flew - bumpy gums ranging with usually the male head who often has larger head having more of a looser flew /baggy/bumpy gum. The first photo of my working line Karat. The next photos of Max my sable american showline. The last photo of Luna my West german showline.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Luna’s pretty bumpy gums lol! Wgsl max chewing his xmas toy . Not much of an exciting video. Be warned lol. https://youtu.be/25UXFpIGIkE


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## Jocel Louis (9 mo ago)

Were nit talking about dogs were talking about the type and the sloped one isnt depends on stack i would prefer straight back than sloped its because sloped back was ruined dog breed and straight back was a original sheperd because of that sloped will aquire to move more than straight back one and they might suffer to some pain when it comes to sloped so i prefer straight back


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## Jocel Louis (9 mo ago)

Ill bite

the sloped ones are the ruined dog breeds and the straight one was the original one so i will prefer straight instead of sloped. why? Because sloped is harder to move than straight thus sloped has some succering pain so i will prefer the straight 1890's


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Jocel Louis said:


> Ill bite
> 
> the sloped ones are the ruined dog breeds and the straight one was the original one so i will prefer straight instead of sloped. why? Because sloped is harder to move than straight thus sloped has some succering pain so i will prefer the straight 1890's


looks like you posted a similar reply twice. Would you please delete one?


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## upstatenymike (9 mo ago)

WateryTart said:


> I'll bite and add my own example. Same dog, stacked and not stacked.
> 
> Usual caveats apply: This dog is not a show dog, she is from show lines, she was not deemed to have enough rear angulation for the show ring (among other minor things, but mostly the lack of rear angulation). Also please excuse how very dirty she is - both of these photos were taken at the dog park, and the stacked photo is a free stack.


Beautiful pooch man! What breeder did you get from?


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