# Selecting a puppy for "non-standard" traits?



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Sorry, I don't exactly mean non-standard but I wasn't sure what other word to use. I mean how does one go about selecting a puppy when traits are important other than the normal health, hips, drive, nerve, thresholds, etc. 

I'll give an example: 

I really really like a physically affectionate dog. I like a dog that lays on the couch with his head in my lap, snuggles with me in the bed, gives kisses, etc. I also love a dog that's goofy and silly and doesn't take himself or life too seriously But there's zero information out there about which bloodlines are physically affectionate or goofy, and you feel kind of silly talking about it with a breeder.

So: what "non-standard" traits are important to you? I'm not talking about being out of standard, I'm talking about traits that are outside the "standard" ones usually discussed when we talk about choosing a pup or a breeder. 

How do you go about finding them when looking for a puppy?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

You mean "individual traits" instead of "breed traits"?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Yeah, but I mean like quirky stuff that you like and want, not individual traits like color and size and gender.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

There are a series of tests run at 5 weeks then at 7 weeks to totally read the litter and individual pups regarding nerve, drives, thresholds, hardness, sensitivity and social aspects. These do not change over the life of the dog. Best way is to go and witness it with experienced people. Hard to understand it and replicate it just by reading.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Not exactly what you meant, but I need current and future dogs to have little to no DA. I just hate dealing with squabbles and fights. 

Next dog will have to be serious and a hard dog. I have too many goof balls.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

qbchottu said:


> Not exactly what you meant, but I need current and future dogs to have little to no DA. I just hate dealing with squabbles and fights.
> 
> Next dog will have to be serious and a hard dog. I have too many goof balls.


Is it difficult to find a serious, hard dog with zero dog aggression? How do you go about selecting for no dog aggression in a puppy?


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## Dakotasmom23 (Jan 11, 2012)

I think its going to vary puppy to puppy, but I looked very hard at the parents initially. Mom and Dad were both very friendly and outgoing despite just meeting us. I know its standard for GSDs to be aloof with strangers, but I passed by the breeders whose dogs would not greet us. In the breeder we choose, Mom and Dad were both very friendly and outgoing despite just meeting us. I wanted a puppy that was very interested in people and affectionate. There were 2 females in this litter that the breeder thought would work for us and she let us choose between them. We picked the puppy that followed my kids around. Literally followed them all over the yard. And then when I picked her up and she wasn't squirmy and licked my face ever so gently, I knew. Also, we knew we probably would not be a good home for a really intense, go-go-go driven dog. Breeder said Dad was super chill, although Mom was very drivey but with an off switch. So the mellowest pup in the litter came home with us.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Is it difficult to find a serious, hard dog with zero dog aggression? How do you go about selecting for no dog aggression in a puppy?


I admit this will be difficult. My Schh club has lots of pups around because my trainer is a breeder as well. I just watch the puppies and see who has the traits I like. It's also very interesting training in this environment because you start to realize what traits as pups develop into what traits as adults. Certain puppies have the tenacity, drive, serious attitude and need to work. I love that. Especially as they start to come off the rag and go on the sleeve, a lot of traits start coming out imo. I also love watching them in obedience. Who wants to please? Who has the ball/food drive? Who crumbles with corrections? Who needs more than one pop to get the idea? Who is a rebel? Who wants to go sit under the tree and just watch? 

Selecting for no DA is not an easy task and I will probably end up facing this issue once I add another female in the fall. Wiva has a good amount of DA, but I've been able to control it through behavior modification and now she is completely fine with dogs in her pack. I hope that holds once another intact female is added. I also plan on getting a working male within the next year or so and I am dreading what Whiskey is going to do.... He is a serious, aloof, hard dog, but he likes to be the big man on campus. He loves the ladies, but not the boys. I will probably have to get an outside kennel set up and start rotating once I acquire another male. I think the best I can hope for with another male is for Whiskey to ignore him...

Just a little example of what I consider: I am in love with a new female pup out of a VA male and a female that I really admire. Great attitude, spunky, fearless, drives, great angles..but she is nasty to other dogs. She's only 3 months old, but she will try to maul any female that she sees. She went after Wiva and Wiva would have taken her out had I not intervened. As much as I _need_ that pup, I'll have to refuse. Wiva has a certain degree of DA because of her extreme prey drive. If something small runs, she will have to go after it and kill it. I am thankful I live in the country where only rabbits, mice and moles die by her hands! But this dog wasn't operating out of prey...she just wanted to go after other dogs. I don't think any amount of modification is going to change that trait in her. She will always need to be watched in this aspect. 

Now there is another nice stud male at training. He is serious, hard, handler responsive, great personality and gets along with other dogs. He lives in a home with another intact male and 2 intact females. For awhile, the handler had a litter at his home as well. This male has zero issues with any of that. Could I luck out like that? Probably not. But it's something to strive for 
If I had the complete package with DA, then I would take the dog of course. But I really need to work with my breeder to select for a dog that is comfortable with other dogs. Ideally, I would love to wait till the pup is 6-9 months so I could see it work during obedience and bite work. I also like to have a good idea of how the dog will develop as an adult by that point.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Honestly IMO I'd say it's all breeder on this one. When Jinx was a pup we talked to Chris and had a really long conversation on the phone about Jinx where she told me a TON of information on jinx at 10 weeks old on how she would be. She told us she was very people friendly and the cuddliest pup she had seen liked dogs but preferred people etc... everything Chris told us at 10 weeks is EXACTLY what she is now at 17 months despite our training/socializing and all of our mistakes. She likes dogs but will ignore them and even if playing with another dog will gladly call away to any human in the world. We did some minor socializing but nothing extensive and she LOVES people she will cuddle with anyone and everyone is a huge cuddler and love bug with us and just perfect in those aspects. In our next pup (way down the road) we know we want a male... color is debatable but really not a deciding factor at all I know hubby loves solid blacks I love dark sables both are ok with either one however if the pup is black/tan etc.. we wouldn't blink twice at it. We have certain working traits we want however have already decided flat out we would wait multiple litters to get the PERFECT puppy and we wanted one that was cuddly/affectionate, very social with other people, and kind of dog neutral. Friendly is fine but we don't want the dog that goes crazy wanting to meet every dog it sees or one that's kind of grumpy with other dogs. If we meet up with a friend that has a dog I want him to be willing to play or at least hang out and tolerate the other dog(s) I think any good breeder will understand that you are saying and should be able to tell you once the pup gets a bit older 7ish weeks or so about it's personality just from observing them and knowing what they are looking for. I know I have absolutely ZERO doubts that Chris will be able to give us the perfect pup with all of the "extra" personality traits we want even if it may take a few litters after we decide we are ready but to us those extra personality traits are important since not only is the dog a working prospect it is more importantly a family pet and thats what we want for our day to day life.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I would think temperament (which is what you're really talking about) is an individual trait but perhaps that's just terminology.

I'm curious how you'd know, too, as a puppy, if an adult would like to snuggle? I mean you could observe a litter and pick the one most likely to seek human contact, but some of that may change in the new environment (nature vs. nurture) and also perhaps with sexual maturity.

For goofball, snuggl(ier) dogs, I pick the males as females tend to sometimes want to be petted but on their terms, and males tend to want to "fawn" more? That's a generalization I've found within all breeds but I'm sure it goes back to individualism as much as breed or gender.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Going with what Holmeshx2 writes of, it also depends on how the breeder raises the pups(along with the breed matching)
Pups who are raised in the way the Wildhaus pups were, are set up to succeed, because they are socialized early with other dogs and people. 
I was very concerned with dog aggression when I decided to get a pup,because I already have two dogs that are reactive to others. It was one of my questions when choosing a breeder.
Because of the early upbringing, my pup was very neutral to other dogs(still is).
And Chris knows how cuddly her dogs are(Karlo's mom is super friendly), I think that comes from their foundation bitch Ira. Karlo is very cuddly, and I love that about him!

Sure, you may get a DA dog in a litter even with the same lines, but the way the breeder raises the litter surely helps.
At training we practice a group downstay, most all young dogs, and Karlo was the strange dog in the group as it was our first trip out there in almost a year(all but two are from WH in this dogline)








This was a few weeks later(one in heat next to Karlo, he was ok with that too)


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

I like no DA whatsoever, I like a dog friendly with dogs. I find them the easiest type of dog for me as I like to take my dogs everywhere with me. Another important quality would be no fear of thunder or fireworks. I like high energy, moderate to low prey drive. I like a dog capable of strong bonding.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think you just have to not worry about feeling silly when talking to a breeder, and be honest about what you want - otherwise, how can the breeder pick for you? 

For example, much like everyone else, I had a pretty long list of specific traits I was looking for in a dog to make sure it fit into my life and lifestyle. 

Sure, I wanted a rock-solid, kick-butt Schutzhund dog that made people's head turn on the protection field coupled with natural focus and bidabbility for obedience, but in addition, I needed a house-dog that would get along with cats, chill in the house even if due to extreme weather, exercise and training opportunities were curtailed for some time. I wanted a dog that was easy going enough but confident enough that he would not be bothered or negatively affected by Keeta's insecure bullying. A dog that would just shrug it off, but one that would be able to stand up for himself and let her know when she went too far, and not allow any of it to affect his self-confidence. 

Like you, I prefered a dog that was snuggly and cuddly, between more aloof and more outgoing and friendly, I'd choose the dog that was outgoing and friendly with strangers. Part of looking for this is that I prefer to live a quiet and isolated life, and though I make the effort to socialize my dogs on a regular basis, they don't get daily visitors to 'desentize' them to strangers, so liking strangers was a requirement for me, but also needed a level of natural suspicion and defense for Schutzhund, so needed to balance some opposing traits. Again, it wasn't just an issue of talking about what traits I was looking for in a dog, but talking about my lifestyle and my expectations (even if I felt silly :blush. 

I talked about all these things with Chris, and she asked lots of questions as we talked, and I know people are tired of hearing it, but Gryffon is exactly what I was looking for. Since the day I got him, he fit in so well, it felt like I've always had him, like he was made to live here. Having him is so easy and natural in all we do, our dynamic is smooth and soothing like flowing water. 

Now, can't guarantee that your next pup will work out that well, but I'd not worry about feeling silly when talking to a breeder, but about knowing what you'd like, and being honest with yourself.

Also a good breeder will rather not make a match if they feel there is not a good match for you in a litter. When Gryff was a pup, he showed uneven drives and didn't seem to settle into one particular personality and temperament. He was NOT sent to a home at 8 weeks, but held back for further evaluation and to see how he matured. Lucky for me, he matured exactly into what I was looking for.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

It would depend if the breeder is really focusing on each puppy's personality/temperament. For me, I want a puppy that is very affectionate, a adventurer, confident, but seems to have an off/on switch as well, and a puppy that wants to please (wanting to learn). This is what I see on some breeder's pages on describing say older puppies or when you look at shelter listings for some dogs as well. Do you mean something like that? So to me those traits are also important when I have everything else lined up. 

Also I do look at the submissive/dominant angle as well. Some dogs are said to be submissive and some dominate. A adult and some youth Rottweilers I have looked at have had notes from the breeder to say that the dog was dominate and needed a serious/experience person only or someone who knew how to handle a dominate dog. One Rottweiler I was very interested in last year was stated to be "dominate but easy to handle". With a young puppy, I don't know if that would be hard to determine though.


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