# Sticky  Allergies...help me without steroids



## kmaot

Hello. What natural methods or remedies have you used and with what success? 

Thanks!


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## littledmc17

Steroids are horrible
try benadryl


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## kmaot

Hi littledmc. Thanks for the reply. 

Assume I don't want to do the Benadryl (or that it has tried and failed). So what I actually want are natural rememdies to help bolster the immune system and counteract the inflammation.

One could even assume vaccinosis. 

And not just "try fish oil"...I have. I would love to know dosages and heavy duty regimens.

Thanks gang


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## LisaT

What kind of diet and supplements are you using now?


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## Maedchen

Is there a holistic vet in your area? It would be good to start with detoxing the organs etc first, f.e. with chinese or western herbs, or look for a pract. that does <u>classical</u> homeopathy and can also give you guidance about natural diet etc.

It's not gonna be a quick fix. You don't just throw in a couple supplements and see immediate results- it might take years. You have to provide the best possible diet (home made if possible) and most def. avoid all vaccinations and pestice products (HW, flea/tick stuff). My girl took over 2 years until she was cured of her hotspots, swelling in the armpits, chronic eardischarge and "grass allergy". She wasn't cured bc of the supplements, they only helped to help herself, along with the diet and avoiding additional toxins.
Fish oil recom. I believe is 1g per 10lb bodyweight for inflamm. conditions. I'd also look into spirulina.


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## Kava3

I tried everything on Kaio that the vet gave me, he was itching and chewing horribly. Benadryl didn't work and neither did prednisone. 
I now give him 1TBS of vinegar per day. I found out about it on a website. He doesn't itch or chew anymore and his coat is gowing back where he had chewed himself bald in places.


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## BowWowMeow

Braggs organic apple cider vinegar. Mix 1 to 1 with water and you can spray it on too.


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## BowWowMeow

To the OP: what kind of allergies? Can you be specific, even if you don't know what you're doing is allergic to--symptoms, etc.


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## LisaT

Here is Belfield's allergy program (www.belfield.com), from an email that someone sent me about 10 years ago:

_For an Adult, Medium (20-50 lb) dog, give the following with the dog's meal:

Vitamin C: 1,500 to 3,000 mg (for a 45 lb dog, I'd give 2,700 mg)

Vitamin E: 200 I.U.

Comprehensive vit/min supplement (I use Theralin VMP vit/min tablets by Lambert Kay - you can get them cheapest from Cherrybrook 1-800-524-0820) Dose is 1 tablet per 20 lbs per instructions on the bottle. I STRONGLY suggest that you use only Theralin VMP. An owner who used a less comprehensive vit/min found that her dog did not respond for 3 weeks longer than any other dog on the program.

Also give BYS (garlic/yeast tablets) It's loaded with B vitamins. Also from Cherrybrook - Dose is 1 tablet per 10 pounds per instructions on the bottle. A side benefit is that it gives the dog's skin a smell that fleas and ticks find offensive, so they tend to stay off the dog. People cannot smell anything different.

I get the C & E at the drugstore. Don't bother to buy C with rose hips, according to Belfield it does nothing to help the C work. I do, however, buy the brand that says on the label, "No soy, no sugar, no preservatives, etc." Do not buy time released vitamin C. [Belfield actually uses sodium ascorbate.]

Give the above with food as vitamins are absorbed better that way and the food buffers the dog's stomach against the acidity of the vitamin C. If the dog's stool becomes mushy, it's the C. Back down on the dose and gradually over a week or so build it back up to the proper level.

The supplement program takes 5 weeks to totally strengthen the dog's immune system. I've seen dogs respond in a week and heard of one case where it took a Great Dane 7 weeks.
_

Modifications that can be used....

I used Vetriscience's Canine Plus multivitamin and Missing Link, and that worked like a charm. (Assuming no allergies to the ingredients in either of the two -- my GSD is allergic to brewer's yeast, and some dogs can't handle flax.)

I know someone else that got her dog off of steroids using Missing Link and the MegaC product that is sold on the Belfield site. 

That BYS product above also contains zinc and biotin, very good for allergies: http://www.botanicaldog.com/proddetail.php?prod=BREWERS

I think a good bioflavanoid product also helps, this is the one I use: http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/Supplements/M003398.htm

Of course this is all based on a foundation of a good quality food that the dog is not allergic to.


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## kmaot

Hello. Thanks for the responses. Sorry for the delay!
Well my male licks his paws a fair amount. Chews them actually. Skin is very dry and the fish oil is just not helping. There are no thyroid issues as this has been tested. 

At times there will be a terrible itchiness all over without sign of "anything" per se. No parasites.

We have used fish oil and probiotics on and off. Not likely on a regular enough basis to see a marked improvement.


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## Chicagocanine

I have found the best thing to do is first figure out whether it is environmental allergies or food allergies. I've had dogs with sensitivities to certain food ingredients and as soon as you start using a food without those ingredients, they improve. 
Changing foods also helped my Golden's seasonal allergies some, the symptoms were not as bad in the spring the year I had started using grain-free foods with her. 
If it is environmental allergies you can also try to reduce exposure to the allergen or if it's something like pollen or grass where it is hard to reduce exposure, it can sometimes help to wipe them down after contact. I used non-medicated eyedrops for Ginger when she had her seasonal allergies and this helped to prevent eye infections triggered by her allergies. She was also allergic to some plants so I tried to wipe her down after she came inside to help remove any irritants from her fur.


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## LuvWorkingGSDs

Switching to raw, minimizing pesticide exposure and balancing her immune system (through herbs for a few months at the beginning) was what cured my dog's allergies. Her allergies were environmental and resulted in poor skin quality and some nasty bacterial infections.

She was given a couple of Chinese herbs under the advisement of Marina Zacharias at http://www.naturalrearing.com/coda/contact.html#landing as well as soy hydrocortisone for the itching. (benadryl never did anything for her, but the soy hydrocortisone helped with the itching without any of the negative effects of typical steroids)

I also gave her concentrated high quality fish oil/vitamin e of course and continue to do so. (around 50 mg/lb total omega 3s)


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## Doc

I would look at a good vitamin and mineral supplement. One with a high dose of sodium ascorbate. Prenvention Plus or Mega C Plus.


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## JakeN

My dog is going through the same thing. This is a great thread. Pls more input


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## LisaT

For dogs, I would definitely recommend no grains and low starch -- tough unless you want to homecook or feed raw. The grainless is do-able, but they are typically higher starch.

I have had bad allergies since I was a kid. I have always required a multivitamin, lots of extra vitamin C, a B-50 complex, and a calcium/zinc/magnesium supplement. Those things made a huge difference decades ago when I first started them. 

I still had to take allergy shots, but stopped them several years ago. I replaced them with 
the NOW bioflavanoids product mentioned above: http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/Supplements/M003398.htm
and this when things are blooming and I'm sneezing a lot: http://www.hylands.com/products/hayfever.php
I know that Hylands has a number of allergy and sinus formulations, that might work just when there are flair-ups. I wouldn't use those for long term use. I just use them when the darn privets and cottonwoods are blooming...why oh why did the developer love those privets......yuck!


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## Doc

Lisa, those particular plants grow fast and are cheap to buy. I would speculate that is the reson the developer loved them so.


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## LisaT

I suspect that you are right







I try so hard to keep Max from sticking his whole head into the bush on our walks when it's blooming, but he's such a dork....










***************


Has anyone noticed that when you type







it's singular, but







is plural? What's up with that? Inconsistency drives me nuts....


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## Kava3

Bromelian given away from meals is a natural anti-inflammatory, 

Quercetin, is a natural anti-histamine, 

Vitamin C benefits as an immune booster and therefore your dog's system is more resistant to environmental allergies. If giving Vitamin C make sure it is Sodium Acsorbate and not Asorbic acid.

Fish Oil works against allergies but has to be supplimented with Vitamin E otherwise your dog can develop a Vit E deficiency which will cause itchy dry skin.

Cider Vinegar helps internal and topical

Adding Olive Oil helps

Gelatin helps the body to use protien better and therefore improves the skin, and the condition of the blood allowing the dogs to fight infection and allergens better.

Good Luck


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## SunCzarina

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowBraggs organic apple cider vinegar. Mix 1 to 1 with water and you can spray it on too.


Hmm, I wonder if this would work in a foot bath? My friends dog gets seasonal cysts in his paws that I suspect is from him frollicking in the woods. What's out there for allergens, I don't know but it's not his feed doing it becuase the cysts only come out in the spring/summer.


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## LisaT

Okay, I don't regularly watch Oprah, but that Dr.that is on there a lot said for foot problems in people, soak in regular black tea. Something about the tannins(?) In the tea. 

When the weeds are dried up and bad in the yard, Max licks and his paws get all red and almost infected looking. So I tried the tea thing and it really did help.


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## SunCzarina

Black tea is certainly less expensive than his pills! Just regular tea from the grocery store??? Not a tea drinker so I don't know. 

Now if you said coffee, I'd have a clue lol.


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## LisaT

Yep, regular black tea - I just used the ol' stand-by Lipton's!


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## dogmama

My Zack has bad environmental allergies. A temporary fix is a nice cool bath. 

We're seeing yet another holistic vet on Monday. We've done almost two years of allergy shots, I've replaced lawns with bricks, I cook his food (but I'm slowly moving him to raw, just in case...) I check titers before I vaccinate. He takes benedryl and amytriptaline and they help a little, but not much. I'd like to get him off of those things because I don't think it's good for his liver - although I have complete blood panels run every year and his last one (last month) was perfect.

If somebody bumps this, I'll let you know what my holistic vet says. Otherwise, I'll forget.


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## dogmama

I'm bumping myself. Vet said Atopica. I started another thread on this:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...553#Post1116550


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## Fluffypants

Bumping this thread and looking for advice on how to build Niko's immune system... he is my allergy boy and will be going to the vet this morning for most likely aural hematoma surgery again.









I'm looking at the info that LisaT posted about Belfield's recommendations and was wondering if this is something that I should try. 

Niko has been so itchy the last couple of days.. he was on a low dose of pred for a month to avoid another hematoma surgery, it worked, but as soon as he was off the pred his ear blew back up. He wasn't itchy probably because of the pred.

I just started him on Honest Kitchen and some raw meat... so far so good. I also was giving him Cosequan DS... he seems to be a little stiff here and there.

My question would be where should I start with him in building his immune system up. I noticed Theralin VMP was mentioned and Brewers yeast, Vit C and E. Was a little nervous about Brewer's yeast since I think I read that can be an allergan??

I was also looking at Belfields Mega C... it's pricey, but if it would help... I would give it a try. Niko is 105lbs.

I need to try something else since I feel like I have exhausted every avenue without any real relief. Allergies are so frustrating... the amount of money I have spent (and will spend this morning on the hematoma surgery) is crazy... if only I saw some decent results. I feel like I'm at my wits end with my poor boy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Tanja


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## LisaT

My Max can't have brewer's yeast (allergies), but Indy excels on it. Just about anything can be an allergen - doesn't hurt to be cautious, add one thing at a time, watch for reactions.

The MegaC is vit C plus some basic vitamins. I've never used it, but knew of others long ago that did. A couple were able to get their dogs off steroids with either Belfield's program, or a modified version. The only thing I would add to Belfield's program is some fatty acids. If not allergic, I like fresh ground flax.

Best of luck, I hope your boy can find some relief soon!


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## Fluffypants

Thank you Lisa.... any particular brands or products would you recommend I take a look at?

I was looking at Vetriscience Canine Plus Soft chews as an all around multi vitamin. I was just thinking to purchase the C & E at the drugstore. 

As for fatty acids... I'll have to look around a bit more... Niko came up allergic to Catfish.. so not sure if Salmon oil will be an issue. Vetri Science makes a 3,6, 9 capsule. Haven't look at it too much.

There is so much out there... YIKES

Thanks again!
Tanja


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## LisaT

There is a lot out there. 

I've always used the Canine Plus for my dogs. For the fatty acids, I like Missing Link, or fresh ground flax if there are multiple allergies, flax alone is safer.

My dogs only seem to tolerate sodium ascorbate, thet I have to get online, it's actually the version the belfield uses. You could try any C, just start slowly. 

For the E, stay away from the synthetic dl-alpha form and stick with the d-alpha form. Better yet if you find one that has the mixed tocopheral, alpha, gamma, beta, and one other I can't think of right now.


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## natalie559

> Originally Posted By: LisaTJust about anything can be an allergen


Isn't that the truth. Some can even be so sensitive that they cannot handle one form of a vitamin, but can another.

So think about this when buying supplements. For example, what about the beef gelatin in caps? Or the soy in a capsuled vit e? Certain digestive supplements could be derived from an animal but never say it on the label.

Brewers yeast is mainly b vitamins. You could supplement with a vit b complex instead.

Have you done an elimination diet?

Did you ever try the comfortis?


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## Fluffypants

Thanks again Lisa!!! I was thinking of Missing Link, but it has rice bran... Niko has an allergy to rice. So, I think that one is out. Have to look for fresh flax... I'm sure I can get that online somewhere.









I still haven't ruled out the Mega C... just wasn't sure if I should do the Mega C and Canine Plus together. I have E at home and I think it is d-alpha. Going to recheck. 

I'm going to give the Nature's Logic another try since I know I just can't afford going completely to Honest Kitchen for my big guy. I think I'm going to start adding raw meals at night a few times a week. Although I'm not going to start all of this at the same time as... my god I'll never have any idea what Niko's is having issues with!!









Saw the vet this morning... Niko is back on pred for a few weeks - supposedly a low dose 15mg for 5 days then tapered down for a couple of weeks. This is for his aural hematoma... which he had surgery for a few years ago (same ear). I think the vet wanted to give this one more try since it can work without going into a surgery again on the same ear. 

I hate pred, but will give this one more shot to prevent surgery and another $700 vet bill. I'm nervous about pred again... hoping this isn't another bad decision. 

Going to look for flax now.









Thank you Lisa for all your help... I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

Tanja


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## Fluffypants

Thank you Natalie... it is awful that they can be allergic to anything. I think I'm paranoid because I read everything on labels for the dogs... not for myself of course. LOL

I have done the elimination diet several times... with the Science Death foods, quality dog foods and even raw ( I raw fed for 4 years). Nothing ever made a huge difference... although I have been pondering going back to raw since it was awhile ago and I tend to think Niko has gotten worse... he just might have been better on raw than how he is now.

I didn't try the Comfortis... it has pork in it... the only protein Niko came back as allergic too! It figures.









It would probably be a good idea to try a B-Complex. Anyone know the dosage for 105lber or better yet... anyone recommend a good book that might have this info in it??

Thank you!!
Tanja


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## LisaT

Belfield has a book on his website that talks about supplements and health - orthomoleular medicine is the field.

For a 105 pound dog, I would be comfortable with a conservative human dose. For Indy, her vitamin has brewer's yeast, and I also give her a B-50. Max, twice her size, only gets something roughly equivalent to a B-25 because he just gets hyper.

I actually also give bioflavanoids.

For the flax, I buy it in bulk (can be found in health food stores, grocery stores here, etc.), and grind it in a small coffee grinder each night.

If the change in food hasn't helped, hopefully putting stuff into the diet (rather than taking it out), will help??


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## Fluffypants

Thanks once again Lisa.







It's funny because any food I have fed him has not really made any big difference. That's why I figured I would give the Nature's Logic another try... it is one of the only foods out there that he could eat according to his food allergy test (although that might not be accurate).

I'm also going to look into a book too! I do hope adding to Niko's food helps. My only concern now is that he is on pred for his hematoma... I may stop at whole foods and pick up a refrigerated probiotic tonight. Niko can also easily get gastro issues.

Thank you!!
Tanja


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## LisaT

I hope it helps. Hope *something* helps.


The other thing to perhaps keep in the back of your mind, is that there couod be a yeast issue. I kept asking our vet about this for Max, and she didn't think much of it. But Max is on an anti-fungal and all sorts of things are getting better. 


If it's yeast or fungal, anything with brewer's yeast, grains, starches, and even fruits will trigger problems.


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## Fluffypants

Thank you Lisa. When I had all the allergy testing etc done... he was scraped and scraped for everything and no yeast came back. Not sure how accurate that is, but he does smell at times. I'll keep the yeast triggers in mind.

He is constantly licking his butt after he goes to bathroom and this is something that has always puzzled me. Every diet he has done this (Raw, ZD, all premium foods etc) I have had my vet check him numous times for perianal fistula and he looks fine down there. 

This is what I was thinking of ordering:

Mega C Plus
Canine Plus Multivitamin - the tablet does not contact brewer's yeast... althought the soft chews do. Read this one the label.

I was also thinking of another product I saw... Nature's Logic food fortifier supplement instead of the Missing link. All of Nature's logic products have brewer's yeast... he is eating the kibble as well.

http://www.natureslogic.com/products/fortifier.html

I was looking thru the NOW website (used their products before) and was totally confused as to what to buy and thought... just buy the Mega C and Canine plus for now. I'll never decide what to order! LOL

If I need to Flaxseed - I can get it from one of the health food stores. 

Thanks again
Tanja


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## natalie559

Tanja

Some thoughts/questions

What type of allergy testing did you do, skin vs blood? Was flea saliva included in the test to determine FAD? If you have done elimination diet and see no difference regardless of food fed maybe even if he did test allergic to foods he may not be, especially if it was a blood test. They can give both false negatives and positives. Have you fed pork and had a reaction? Has the itching ever been seasonal to make you believe in the environmental correlation?

Here is a good link I'd like to add to this thread about natural treatment of allergies,

"Using Whole Food Supplements to Treat a Common Skin Disorder in Dogs" by Dr. Shawn Messonnier, DVM

http://www.pawsforpeace.com/files/Using_...20in_20Dogs.pdf

Way back a holistic vet put Penny on colostrum (have you tried that?) for immune building and standard process's allerplex for support. The Doc mentions standard process supplements in the link above. Ever tried any of them?


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## natalie559

> Originally Posted By: Fluffypants Not sure how accurate that is, but he does smell at times.


Certainly something to keep in mind are the secondary conditions that can happen because of the primary allergy condition. 

It is very normal for an allergic dog to have yeast, bacteria and or seborrhea on their skin, all of which smell to a certain extent. These secondary conditions can take on a life of their own compounding the original problem and can make the dog itch even more. 

In these cases a medicated shampoo is usually necessary, and if you need to use it often that's okay, just follow up with a conditioner so the skin doesn't dry out


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## Fluffypants

Hi Natalie,

Yes to all of the questions below. Niko had both the intradermal skin testing and blood - (VARL). They were cross referenced and a serum was made by Dr. Lowell Ackerman (Tufts). Dr. Ackerman is a pretty well known dermatologist who was practicing in the Boston area. He wrote many books and I was happy to get an appt with him.







I also did on my own the blood test for food and had it sent to VARL. The derm's do not like to test for food via blood.









Niko is allergic to most bugs... fleas, mosquitos etc. Actually bugs, dust mites and mold were his biggies! I did do the allergy shots for a year and did see some improvement, but no one was able to give Niko the shot... he was completely stressed out. 4 vet tech's and myself had the most difficult time that I gave up because Niko was so freaked out. Not biting or anything, just flailing around and the tech's were frustrated too. I had no help and couldn't do it by myself.









Thinking back.. the itching was more seasonal and is now pretty much all the time... just like what was written by Dr. Messonnier. 

Niko has seen 2 holistic vets and a homeopathic vet (plus his traditional vet and derm) He was put on colostrum by one vet (who I have thought of going back to see... I really liked her). She is far away and has no weekend appt's... so it was difficult to go every few weeks.

The first holistic vet he saw had him on all Standard Process products... to the tune of about $400 a visit. LOL I actually had to create a spreadsheet in order to keep track of which supplement to give Niko in the a.m. vs. pm. I did that for about 4-5 months and just couldn't afford it anymore... especially without seeing any noticeable results.

I was a little gun-shy with the holistic vets at first since I spent probably around $2,000 with the first one and saw no major results. I did realize it takes time.. but I could never have afforded to continue (already working 2 jobs). LOL 

Not sure what I should try next... and this is why I was thinking about building his immune system up... although he is on pred now for an aural hematoma again... same ear. Hoping to eliminate the hematoma without having to do surgery again. I hate pred and feel awful about him on it. It really bothers me, but the hematoma surgery is between $600 & $700. 

Thank you and any advice or products you think might help... feel free... I'm game for anything at this point.









Tanja


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## natalie559

Hmmmm, you sound like me and all we went through plus some. Did the skin testing include foods or only the blood? So have you ever fed pork and noted a reaction? 

Just still thinking about the comfortis, especially if he has tested positive for the flea saliva. Wondering if he is truly allergic to both, if pork could be the lesser evil or the two and you still try the comfortis. But if you knew for sure pork sends him haywire than that wouldn't be good. I know at this point I am sounding repetitive, but that med has made such a difference for Penny. . .but I know all our babies are different.


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## Fluffypants

Glad to hear there is another like me! LOL Just kidding. I feel like I've done it all and at times feel like there is no hope.







The skin testing and blood work (all done at the same time) was for inhallant... no food was ever done by the derm. I actually had my regular vet draw the blood and I sent the sample to VARL for the food test just this past October. 

Sorry... never answered the pork question... must have gotten carried away.







Well, I have fed pork when I fed raw and I never noticed any crazy reaction. I suppose I could give it a try, but I've never had a flea issue with any of my pets... never have even seen one. Although I'm sure if Niko was to be bit by one... it will cause him to be very itchy. 

Maybe I should give it a try. 

I've had a very difficult time figuring out what is making him so itchy... I can never pin point if it's food. I'm starting to think it's not because he is itchy all the time.

Thank you!!
Tanja


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## Vio79

> Originally Posted By: Maedchen
> It's not gonna be a quick fix. You don't just throw in a couple supplements and see immediate results- it might take years. You have to provide the best possible diet (home made if possible) and most def. avoid all vaccinations and pestice products (HW, flea/tick stuff). My girl took over 2 years until she was cured of her hotspots, swelling in the armpits, chronic eardischarge and "grass allergy". She wasn't cured bc of the supplements, they only helped to help herself, along with the diet and avoiding additional toxins.


I read this a few days ago and am coming back to it, because I may try with our dog. But is it okay to go without the flea/tick treatment, especially in an area like New England (in the warmer months)? Also, I would love to avoid vaccinations - is it really okay to go without all besides rabies?


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## LJsMom

I don't have the experience to answer this. So,


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## LisaT

For the vaccines, there are two different issues. If your dog has never been vaccinated, versus whether it has. So I would start by asking how old your dog is and also the number of vaccinations, how frequent, etc. Different answers for the two different scenarios. 

It often is not safe to go without protection from fleas and ticks, but sometimes there are ways to mitigate that. I know that many have had luck with alternatives for fleas (Bug Off is a popular product on the board). I am not convinced it can take care of ticks, but some individuals seem to think so and I defer to them since I haven't used it. 

My girl reacts to the tick spot-ons, so I have,t been using them. I have been experimenting with various homemade sprays, on vacation, I do use the preventic collar. Frontline Top Spot (not the plus), has the least amount of "stuff" in it for a spot-on. For HW, I am in a high HW area, I use Interceptor at 1/5 the standard dose. In general, I don't like "all-in-one" products.


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## Vio79

Thanks for the info. I think since Max is 6, he's had a lot of his vaccinations and we just gave him the major parvo and distempter booster a couple weeks ago. So I guess it doesn't make sense to go without at this point. 

Used to use the Fontline Plus, but he hasn't been on anything for a while since the vet gave him Ivermectin. The next dose of Frontline Plus (we still have like 7 months worth already bought), along with his Interceptor for heartworm would be at the end of this month. I guess maybe we'll just finish off what we have for now and then consider something else. But we have found many ticks (including deer ticks) crawling around on him, so I'm pretty reluctant to go without protection around here.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: Vio79we just gave him the major parvo and distempter booster a couple weeks ago

































Stupid idiot vet, and that's just about the kindest thing I can say, considering the health problems that your boy is having.


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## BowWowMeow

He absolutely should not get any more vaccinations! My gsd, Basu, had terrible skin problems because of over-vaccinating! 

I have never used any chemical flea or tick stuff. I am one of the Bug Off Garlic people. I've been using it on my dogs for 6 years and in that time have found ONE tick total on 5 different dogs. I have found ticks on myself but not on the dogs.


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## Vio79

> Originally Posted By: LisaT
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Click to expand...

Ugh I wish I had known all this BEFORE letting them vaccinate the heck out of Max. Makes me so mad. Poor dog is probably so screwed up because of these vets - I guess I made a good decision by stopping all treatments (except maybe acupuncture, which would be with a new, holistic vet) once we see our current vet to get sutures out. And ask about a thyroid panel.


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## LisaT

Kudos to you for trying as much as you have been trying. Sounds like none of the vets have really done much for his health at all









Well, hopefully you can get him stable, and then find the right match for you guys.


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## IllinoisNative

> Originally Posted By: Fluffypants It really bothers me, but the hematoma surgery is between $600 & $700.


Wow. I see some country vets where I live and it cost $200 dollars for my dogs hematoma and that included six weeks of follow up care where they changed the bandages, medication, and the cone. The only down side was that this office didn't take appointments. It was walk in so you had to wait a long time. But the vets are knowledgable, and the prices are GREAT!

My dog is suffering from severe allergies complete with secondary bacterial infections and yeast issues. I use the anti-yeast shampoo, I condition, I use apple cider vinegar topically and orally, I use fish oil, ester C, wash the bedding in non-chemical soap, he's on prednisone and it's still not getting better.

He's had a complete bloodwork up and skin scraping. Nothing.

I'm at my wits end.

There were some other supplements in this thread that I haven't tried so I will try those and see if it works.

My poor doggie.


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## DHau

Are there any positive experiences to report after following any of these suggestions?


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## LisaT

I don't know of anyone new that tried everything all at once - complete diet with full out supplements. I know Vio79 tried without success, but she only did a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and for serious cases, it has to be done all at once.


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## shepsmum

Well, in the search for no steroids, here is where I'm at. 
I have a multivitamin compliment called BioVites be gets with every meal.
I supplement that with Missing Link
In order to help him eat all that powder, I mix in a teaspoon of tuna.
In addition I give him 200 UI Vit E, and 600mg Ester C.
He gets 2 tbsp local raw honey
His daily food is Taste of the Wild brand. 
To try and relieve his itching I give him 50g benedryl twice daily. Its an entire body itch, so cannot treat hot spots.
Currently I have him 100% off steroids, but he is extremely itchy again. When hes itchy like this, he won't eat anything, which means hes not taking the supplements on schedule. 

What else can I give him non steroid to relieve the itching besides the steroids so we can give this new diet a chance. We've tried bathing him in an oatmeal allergy bath, that only lasts a few hours, so its ineffective for the effort required.

Thanks


----------



## LisaT

I think I would consider acupuncture....and also bioflavanoids that have a good amount of quercetin?

Do you think the itchy is from environmental stuff, or food stuff? My Max gets itchy from beef, mosquito bites, and his paws get bad from certain grasses or weeds.


----------



## shepsmum

Kept up with the regiment for a few weeks and the itching has calmed. Hasn't taken a steroid in maybe a month now. 
I've been trying to get this product called Mega C, but I'm thinking the company is out of business. I've tried emailing looking for a close distributor with no response, so I tried ordering direct from belfield's website, and no response. Took my credit card and everything, but never heard a thing after that. Can't call their toll free from here cause its out of country or out of service. Anyone know a place to buy it other than Belfields?


----------



## shepsmum

Finally got the Mega C, guess they're in business, just lack of customer service. 
Has anyone heard of or used Atarax/Hydroxyzine, if so how were the results? Considering asking the vet for it to try out, Benadryl did not have much affect.


----------



## LisaT

I guess they just put the MegaC on the slow boat to Canada 

Great news that the itching has calmed and there has been on steroid use for quite some time. That's definitely an accomplishment! If the itching is from the nervous system being overactive, scullcap can help calm that. If it's from allergies, you might try some activated quercitin?


----------



## DnP

I would seriously consider accupuncture. 

Before the vet and I would even consider steroids, he suggested I consult with a holistic vet for both Phoenix's ortho and allergy issues. 

He has been on a regimine of chiro and accupuncture for the past 8 months and wow, have I seen a difference. I also finally got rid of the 40 year old carpets in my house.

Besides the acupuncture, I have introduced some other supplementation recommended by the holistic vet as well as doing the allergy shots every month with serum. Only on two occasions since starting the acupuncture, have I had to give Phoenix a week of tavist. It was in the middle of winter, when I got behind in my vacuuming and dusting and keeping his bedding as dustmite free as possible.


----------



## Fluffypants

shepsmum said:


> Finally got the Mega C, guess they're in business, just lack of customer service.
> Has anyone heard of or used Atarax/Hydroxyzine, if so how were the results? Considering asking the vet for it to try out, Benadryl did not have much affect.


 
I have used probably every antihistimine.. Hydroxyzine is the one that worked the best for us and I have read that more dogs respond favorably to it for allergies. I had no luck with Benadryl either. It's worth a shot... very inexpensive and it's not a steriod. I would really try and stay away from pred. We had some serious issues from Niko being on a low dose of pred and he will NEVER go on pred again. 

Clemastine/Tavist also worked pretty good... although antihistimines for us... seem to loose their effect over time. The documentation from one of the derm's I have used (Dr. Lowell Ackerman) states that antihistimines are more effective if used with fatty acids.

Good Luck!

Tanja


----------



## Toffifay

I use Hydroxyzine for my allergy dog and I can't say enough great things about it! She was on prednisone for a very long time and I hated giving it to her. She is now totally off the steroids! Between the Hydroxyzine, therapeutic dosages of fish oil (which is a lot), Borage Seed oil and a raw diet she is looking and feeling better than ever...symptom free, beautiful and best of all comfortable!


----------



## paulag1955

Do you notice any drowsiness or personality changes in your dogs with the Hydroxyzine?


----------



## paulag1955

Can you use human vitamin supplements for the pups or do you need one especially manufactured for animals?


----------



## shepsmum

paulag1955 said:


> Do you notice any drowsiness or personality changes in your dogs with the Hydroxyzine?


We had shep at 75mg doses, didn't notice any personality changes, or drowsiness. 
However it has not done anything to improve on the itching and chewing. In fact any of the improvements were were seeing the last few months kinda disappeared and he's just as bad as when he first got allergies as a puppy. 
Not giving up, his great temperament changes from being off the steroids is worth the work. Even the vet noticed a huge difference in his aggression, they were able to handle him with no growling or anything. The vet tech didn't used to be able to go within 10ft of him, now she can hand feed him and pet him. Didn't even use a pinch collar on the last visit.


----------



## shepsmum

Was gonna add but didn't see an edit button.
The next thing that I'm considering trying is a combination of Dermaxol and Canine Dermal Support. Anyone try either of those yet?


----------



## Samba

Allergies are the result of an overactive immune system. Bolstering and boosting the immune system can make them worse.

Steroids, used correctly, can be life changing and very helpful. It is the improper or inappropriate use that can issues that did not need to occur. 

Of course, one can try other methods and I feel that it is worth the effort. But steroid treatment need not be dismissed out of hand as horrible.


----------



## LisaT

You can support allergies with quite a bit of supplements and it really doesn't boost the immune system, as you would an autoimmune condition. They somehow act differently in the body.

I find it sad that the holistic thread on allergies has turned into one discussing antihistamines and steroids


----------



## savvygirl

Glacier Peak Holistics has an Allergy Testing kit on their website. They test for food allergies as well as any environmental toxin overloads and vitamin/mineral deficiencies. The test is kinesicological, so it's non-invasive. The results have been amazing. 
They also have an awesome anti-inflammatory formula called Inflapotion. Folks have been calling it "magic" for years.
Here is the link: Glacier Peak Holistics natural herbal pain remedies for dogs and horses


----------



## bossgoat

*allergies*

has anyone tried acupuncture for allergy relief?


----------



## LisaT

bossgoat said:


> has anyone tried acupuncture for allergy relief?


We used it for digestive issues, and it helped a lot. for allergies, I think it can be supportive, but you probably have to do several things at once, a package deal so to speak, to ultimately be successful.


----------



## GermanShepherdBethesda

*Tried Benadryl & lots of medicines; don't help*

My 3-year-old German Shepherds both have allergies. One has it more severely than the other. Constant scratching, itching, gnawing away. Suggestions of how I can help him? They are both taking Hydroxizine but with little result. Already tried Benadryl- no help. Both are eating Evo natural foods. Do not bathe them often. Would that really make that much difference? Would fish oil really make a difference? How much should I give them? One is 80 lbs. & the other is 90. Any names of holistic vets in the Bethesda Gaithersburg Maryland area you could recommend?


----------



## shortshifter

Hi Everyone,

Been a while since I posted last. Ramsay has been through **** and back.
I firmly believe his allergies have 100% been cause by idiot vets  and our lack of knowledge trusting in them. Ramsay was given shot after shot with booster shots on top (one time our old vet gave him a 5 in 1 shot) over the last 2 years. We have had an itchy dog right since almost day 1 with him.

We tried different kibbles, cheap stuff to the $100 bag stuff... nothing worked. Ramsay then went on an all raw food diet eliminating poultry and still nothing. So now he has raw poultry and beef to mix things up. Last November the vet recommended a dose of prednisone with a 1 month oral dose twice a day there after. This I swear would have killed our dog if we let the full month continue. This is where I truly started to do my research and I feel confident in putting the blame on the vaccines. 

Since then we have had Ramsay visit a horticultural all natural vet. We have had our buddy on several different things including a spleen support, benadryl, omega 3 oil (already in his raw food but gave him additional dose), engystol and one more I cant remember the name of. 

I feel our buddy is stuck with this extreme itchy that results in patches of fur coming off his ears and head from the constant itching. 

There has been a few people recommend Hydroxyzine on the board here... is this all natural? Does it have any side effects? 

We love our buddy and we just want him to be itch free. He loves to swim, and this usually gets us a few hours after of itch free time.

Help!


----------



## Jax08

Have you had allergy testing done?


----------



## GatorBytes

shortshifter said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Been a while since I posted last. Ramsay has been through **** and back.
> I firmly believe his allergies have 100% been cause by idiot vets  and our lack of knowledge trusting in them. Ramsay was given shot after shot with booster shots on top (one time our old vet gave him a 5 in 1 shot) over the last 2 years. We have had an itchy dog right since almost day 1 with him.
> 
> We tried different kibbles, cheap stuff to the $100 bag stuff... nothing worked. Ramsay then went on an all raw food diet eliminating poultry and still nothing. So now he has raw poultry and beef to mix things up. Last November the vet recommended a dose of prednisone with a 1 month oral dose twice a day there after. This I swear would have killed our dog if we let the full month continue. This is where I truly started to do my research and I feel confident in putting the blame on the vaccines.
> 
> 
> Since then we have had Ramsay visit a horticultural all natural vet. We have had our buddy on several different things including a spleen support, benadryl, omega 3 oil (already in his raw food but gave him additional dose), engystol and one more I cant remember the name of.
> 
> I feel our buddy is stuck with this extreme itchy that results in patches of fur coming off his ears and head from the constant itching.
> 
> There has been a few people recommend Hydroxyzine on the board here... is this all natural? Does it have any side effects?
> 
> We love our buddy and we just want him to be itch free. He loves to swim, and this usually gets us a few hours after of itch free time.
> 
> Help!


Yep...went through same thing, except mine has winter itch (8 months of year, gets progressively worse...steroid shot 1 x only (wouldn't do pills), fish oil, LID, vit.e changed to raw...still winter itch. Jan. 2009 1st trip to Holistic vet said the body is toxic and it didn't get that way overnight. The immune system needs help she scripted "Astragalas Root", I continued With Vit e. and fish oil and b-complex along with pancreatic enzyme fall/winter 09 into 2010 - winter itch. 

near end of summer 2010 I started treating his liver with Milk thistle, about a month later I added Red Clover (along with noted above), come Oct. the itching began...fur starts coming off backs of ears....I continued...By Dec. barely a noticable itch, some but mild, ear fur came back, and his back didn't crawl when I ran my hand down it...This year for various reasons I didn't follow that protocol...Pretty itchy and started having internal ear problems (cleaned w/coconut oil - now great!)

What I have learned along the way along with GSD's wonky digestive issues, susceptibility to pancreatitis and/or EPI, Thyroid problems (and yes likely caused by vaccines as you noted - was thyroid test done? may be part of problem - I use kelp - works great + has trace minerals)...

They also may be lacking an enzyme called intrinsic factor which is responsible for B-12 uptake. another issue with sheps. along with enzyme deficiencies and the inability to break down fats, but the inability to uptake them to be used by the body...fat deficiency = itchy skin...Another Holistic Vet I consulted with advised to feed coconut oil as it is processed through a different mechanism than animal fats and won't cause harm and risk acute pancreatitis.

Note: you don't want to feed, fish oil, E, and red clover - all are blood thinning - could cause problems


----------



## Moxy

I wish I had seen this post a few months back. Poor Mox has had the itchiest skin for several months until recently. We were doing 2 Benedryl twice a day for itching, but she (and our little dog) became immune. Then, the vet put her on prednisone with antibiotics and antifungals. Since we have started treating the problem (ehrlichiosis), her natural oils have returned, and she is less itchy than she has ever been.


----------



## Batzmomm

Tank has seasonal contact allergies. After being on some meds (doggie strentgh benadryl) they had me buy a medicated shampoo. He used to lick his paws til they were raw and then it spread to his face. He scratched the daylights out of it til the hair around his eyes was just about gone and the top of his nose of raw. He looked horrible. So.....I was told to was his face and paws with the medicated shampoo 2 to 3 times a week and after every time he came back inside to wipe it all down with baby wipes. It has worked wonders!!!! No more shampoo use and all we do is wipe him down every few times he comes inside. I also switched his food to Orijens fish. He used to eat the Blue Buffalo chicken and rice for large breed. I think that contributed to some of the inflamation and itching when it happened. Give it whirl. Hope it'll help out.


----------



## AAndrews19

I had Madison at the vet today... 2 years into these allergy battles and the vet randomly decides to tell me "oh by the way, she's allergic to beef'. 

What the ?!

Seriously...2 years later, that's a good time to tell me?? :rolleyes2: Needless to say, I finally have the paper work for her skin testing results (long story why it has taken this long, not happy about it).

*Food:* Lamb, Beef, Mixed Fish (not sure what that means), Milk, Duck, Venison
*Grasses:* Grain Mix (corn, wheat, oat)
*Weeds:* English Plantain, Cocklebur, Kochia
*Trees:* Cottonwood, Sycamore, Ash, Oak
*Molds:* Rhizopus, Smut Mix, Stemphylium, House Dust

(Red = High Positive reaction)

Sooo based on my experience, Vets (at least this one) are only interested in shoving steroids down your dog's throat... causing more problems in the long run... resulting in more money in their pockets. Sure, they might want to 'make your dog comfortable', but why would they want to solve the problem completely?? RIDICULOUS! 

Now, I need to work on figuring out what is what here... especially the molds, and weeds.


----------



## San

AAndrews, was Madison seen by a dermatologist vet or a primary care vet? Was the allergy test based on blood-work or intradermal skin testing? 

My dog started seeing a dermatologist vet in spring 2009 for pollen-related skin allergy. She did intradermal skin testing on my GSD and started her on allergy shots. My dog just had a follow-up with her dermatologist vet a couple of weeks ago. The dermatologist said that since my GSD had been symptom-free for almost 3 years, she recommended us to stop her allergy shots and released her.


----------



## GatorBytes

Something to consider Re: supposed "allergies"

You should read all on this link page, but scrolling down to part 2 it explains "histamine" Now my dog was itchy this year at time he isn't itchy...there are a # of factors for this (too deep to get into for this thread), however...I restarted a good quality B-complex - specifically a "no flush" niacin and "methyl" b-12 in the combo. Also, I re-started Magnesium (and recently additional B-12/folate but because of sketchy belly - usually b-12 deficient if poop issues). The itch has resolved...he gets winter itch, but I think it's fat related so I am pre-empting this season w/coconut oil as well for other reasons (pancreas health)...anyhow
Magnesium
Quality B-complex

Enzymes & Methylation

The start...part 2 goes like this...

Part 2: Histamine
I spent a ton of time looking into this. Here are some of the results. Please take all of this in context of everything else, these biochemical reactions are all intertwined and complex.
I was wondering WHY would histamine levels tell you about methylation function? 
Methionine is a methyl carrying amino acid + ATP/magnesium = SAMe. 
SAMe goes throughout the body delivering methyl groups to over 400 different reactions.
One way histamine is de-activated (eliminated) is by receiving a methyl group from SAMe. So if there is low methylation, there is low SAMe, and the histamine levels are higher because of the lack of methyl groups to deactivate it. If there is high methylation, there is higher amounts of SAMe, and lots of histamine can be deactivated........................................................ 

AND everyone thinks their dog is allergic to chicken:wild:


----------



## AAndrews19

San said:


> AAndrews, was Madison seen by a dermatologist vet or a primary care vet? Was the allergy test based on blood-work or intradermal skin testing?
> 
> My dog started seeing a dermatologist vet in spring 2009 for pollen-related skin allergy. She did intradermal skin testing on my GSD and started her on allergy shots. My dog just had a follow-up with her dermatologist vet a couple of weeks ago. The dermatologist said that since my GSD had been symptom-free for almost 3 years, she recommended us to stop her allergy shots and released her.


The testing was a skin test, but allergy shots were never offered to me. Instead they would send me on my with a bag full of medication every visit... I didn't know any better at the time, but now it has me pretty mad. 

The only thing I knew was to stay away from steroids at all costs. I was dumb enough to pay for atopica for a little over a year... finally I stopped because it has 0 effect anymore.



GatorBytes said:


> Something to consider Re: supposed "allergies"
> 
> You should read all on this link page, but scrolling down to part 2 it explains "histamine" Now my dog was itchy this year at time he isn't itchy...there are a # of factors for this (too deep to get into for this thread), however...I restarted a good quality B-complex - specifically a "no flush" niacin and "methyl" b-12 in the combo. Also, I re-started Magnesium (and recently additional B-12/folate but because of sketchy belly - usually b-12 deficient if poop issues). The itch has resolved...he gets winter itch, but I think it's fat related so I am pre-empting this season w/coconut oil as well for other reasons (pancreas health)...anyhow
> Magnesium
> Quality B-complex
> 
> Enzymes & Methylation
> 
> The start...part 2 goes like this...
> 
> Part 2: Histamine
> I spent a ton of time looking into this. Here are some of the results. Please take all of this in context of everything else, these biochemical reactions are all intertwined and complex.
> I was wondering WHY would histamine levels tell you about methylation function?
> Methionine is a methyl carrying amino acid + ATP/magnesium = SAMe.
> SAMe goes throughout the body delivering methyl groups to over 400 different reactions.
> One way histamine is de-activated (eliminated) is by receiving a methyl group from SAMe. So if there is low methylation, there is low SAMe, and the histamine levels are higher because of the lack of methyl groups to deactivate it. If there is high methylation, there is higher amounts of SAMe, and lots of histamine can be deactivated........................................................
> 
> AND everyone thinks their dog is allergic to chicken:wild:


 
:crazy: Okay....now in english?


----------



## scott26

Hey do you happen to know how much Fish Oil and Vitamin E to give? I have a 5 month old male German Shepherd who is about 60 pounds. He has been to the Vet for his itchy skin a couple times now and they have just been prescribing steroids and telling me to use Benadryl and it hasn't worked. Please let me know. Thanks


----------



## pets4life

yeah my vet told me to never put my dog on any of the allergy shots, he says he has no hope that they actually do anything and thinks they do more harm than good. 

he actually told me to research online myself and to treat symptoms as they come topically or through anti inflamitory if they were severe.


----------



## sue66b

Kibbles that are lower in Carbs go to www.dogfoodadvisor.com & look for a kibbles that are lower in carbs as carbs make yeast...


----------



## melodystorey

*Canine Activ*

Canine Activ is a safe, non toxic pain relief homeopathic analgesic that promotes improved mobility in dogs. The company offers this in small, medium, large and High performance. The Company also offers free samples and money back if you are not happy. Feel free to look at the website and or call 1-855-442-6466 for more information. Products are also offered on Amazon!!! Great Product! I will never put my dog on Rimadyl ever again!


----------



## phps01

Been there...Peri suffered from it....i ran a limited food allergy blood work and found out he is allergic to certain proteins and borderline on a few and also oats. He has always been on a raw non-grain diet but the shampoo i had been using had oats...so i moved on to organic oscar aloe based shampoo/conditioner.
He gets heartworm medication, but i switched to Natural defense for tick/flea control. I am in ohio and he is very much indoor dog. I spray it on him every time we leave the house. I don;t use bleach to clean his bedding just Mrs. Meyers. 

I also added turmeric powder, neem bark powder , probiotics and bovine colustrum. Coconut oil instead of fish as he was borderline allergic to fish. Once in a while i try a new protein and within days he will itch and lose hair on his ears. His allergic to eggs, i tried quail eggs, it did not work. With him, i have had response within 2-3 days when i remove the food that causes the allergy. Your boy might be different in the response time.

Amazon.com: Surthrival Colostrum Powder 6.5oz: Health & Personal Care
Jarrow Formulas, Pet Dophilus, 2.5 oz (70.5 g) Powder - iHerb.com
Genceutic Naturals, Turmeric, 300 mg, 60 NP Natural Capsules - iHerb.com
Artisana, Raw Coconut Oil, Virgin, Organic, 16 fl oz (473 ml) - iHerb.com


----------



## Lwilley

What does the apple cider do for dogs with allergies? How many times do you spray the with it? My dogs for the first time have environmental allergies according to the vet. It has been a very wet summer for us and the vet said there is some fungus growing in the grass as a result. They are losing hair and you can't even pet them without them scratching. I am tired of them being on medicine and am looking for alternatives. We do bathe them in an anti-fungal, anti-bacteria shampoo from the vet twice a week.

Any advice would be appreciated. My dogs are over 80 pounds


----------



## Lwilley

Bump.


----------



## Momto2GSDs

Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar has anti-inflammatory, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties. It can be used internally and externally.

If it were my dogs, and since it doesn't seem like it's working, I'd switch to a natural, non chemical shampoo like Castile Soap. The brand name I use is Bronner's found in health food stores. The baby soap is the most mild, but Almond or Lavender is fine too. https://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/category/BABYMILD.html I would also stop bathing them so much. They are loosing all of the natural oils in their body. A bath once in a while should be sufficient.


Here is my recipe that we use for the dogs and for ourselves:
*SHAMPOO:*
Items Needed:


*Castile Soap *(natural, mild human soap, non GMO) can be purchased at a local health food store or over the internet. It’s about $10 for 16 oz. so this will make 4 regular recipes. FYI, most dogs do not like the peppermint scented one!
*Vegetable Glycerin – Food Grade *(human moisturizer used in lotions) can be purchased at a local health food store or over the internet. 16 oz is approx. $7 and will make 4 regular recipes.
*Clean, Empty Plastic Bottle* (an empty shampoo bottle or water bottle with a valve on top is convenient)
*Funnel*
*Purified Water*
 *Natural Shampoo *
½ Cup Castile Soap
½ Cup Vegetable Glycerin (*this amount can be increased if your dog has a dry a coat or flakey skin)*
½ Cup Water (purified water, not tap water) Add the water to the bottle first to avoid bubbles.


Using a funnel, measure and pour into the empty bottle: Water, Castile Soap, Glycerin. Turn bottle upside down slowly a few times before each use. Keep away from eyes during use.


For a rinse after bath and single applications, purchase some Organic Raw Apple Cider Vinegar from a health food store and make a 50/50 mix of the the ACV and purified water and after the bath rub this down into the skin/coat being careful of eyes. Let dog drip dry. 

You can put some in a spray bottle and spray on their coats once or twice per day until you see improvement. Also use this to wipe out ears.

You may find this thread interesting.
S.O.S Pale Gray Dandruff Skin on Back
Problem:
Quote:
Originally Posted by *reggieDJ* 
_Hi ,
My 4 year old shepherd has some sort of irritation on her ridge/back. Her coat lost all of its shine and looks like a coarse black cotton ball, definitely has a lot of dandruff in the irritated area and it sort of smells. Not like garbage but musky, I cant put a word to the smell._
Solution:
Quote:
Originally Posted by *reggieDJ* 
_"Day 4 of the ACV apple cider vinegar and I kid you not its gone!. Reggie's hair is soft, the skin is lightening, the build up is gone and if I scratch her back she doesn't shake her leg, just happily wags her tail. I'm going to continue for another day or two just in case."_

Have your dogs had their thyroids tested?

What brand name food and treats are they eating? Did your vet put them on a allergy specific food?

Have you considered a NutriScan food test or a Heska environmental/food test?


Another thing that could help:
Povidone Iodine purchased from the drug store: in a small bowl, pour some povidone iodine into a small bowl and dilute it with warm water (purified water) until it is the color of iced-tea. Use a clean cloth each time and bath the effected spots or wipe all over body with this. Don’t rinse off, just pat dry. Do this 2 times daily. 

Choose the Apple Cider Vinegar OR the Povidone Iodine for a daily wipe, but not both at the same time. You can try one for a few days and then the other and rotate them.

Food Products you may want to consider for the skin:
*Raw Organic Virgin Coconut Oil (NO hexane) mixed into their food (can also be rubbed into skin.

OR the following all human grade items.
**Sh-emp Oil* (Combination of Herring Oil, *Coconut Oil* and Hemp Oil): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/SH-EMP-OIL.html
**Phyt-n-Chance* (superfoods, which includes cleansing/detoxification, anti inflammation, and phyto nutrition supporting immune health): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Phyt-n-Chance-K9-A-Highly-Concentrated-Antioxidant-Blend.html
* *Power Of EA’s* (a unique blend of natural, health enriching oils that are high in omega 3. It also provides a rich source of beta carotene, another anti inflammatory and complete, natural vitamin E from two separate ingredients which provide four tocopherols.) http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Power-of-3EA-s.html

Moms


----------



## MakGSD

*GS Skin Allergies*

Hi, 

I know this thread hasn't been very active lately, but I was just wondering if any of the GSD owners that were struggling with skin issues were ever able to find "Permanent Solutions??" 

I'm currently going through the same problems with my 7 year old GSD. I'm looking for a way to get his skin health back without steroids. The Vets want to start apoquel but I still have concerns about it. 

Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


----------



## Quinnsmom

Do you know what it is that your dog is allergic to? What is happening with his skin?


----------



## Moriah

MakGSD said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know this thread hasn't been very active lately, but I was just wondering if any of the GSD owners that were struggling with skin issues were ever able to find "Permanent Solutions??"
> 
> I'm currently going through the same problems with my 7 year old GSD. I'm looking for a way to get his skin health back without steroids. The Vets want to start apoquel but I still have concerns about it.
> 
> Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,


Hi! I sent in to Nutriscan (Dr. Dobbs' lab) for their kit for testing for food intolerances. It was enlightening to see the results. My dog is biting at his fur. My guy needs probiotics to help his digestion. I already had him on a raw diet or I think it would be worse. So I am avoiding reactive foods--which is a lot 28 out of 30. The only things he did not react to was Beef and Lamb. So I am working to get his immune system and digestive system strengthened. Probiotics/digestive enzymes/ non-reactive foods. i am feeding him fresh apple pieces and blueberries and a supplement for vitamins and minerals.

What is your dog's skin problem? I understand not wanting to cover up the symptoms, but to treat the cause.


----------



## Momto2GSDs

MakGSD said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know this thread hasn't been very active lately, but I was just wondering if any of the GSD owners that were struggling with skin issues were ever able to find "Permanent Solutions??"
> 
> I'm currently going through the same problems with my 7 year old GSD. I'm looking for a way to get his skin health back without steroids. The Vets want to start apoquel but I still have concerns about it.
> 
> Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,


Hi Mak & Welcome!

*Have you tried.....(For at least 6 weeks)*
*Raw Feeding - Single meat source?


OR 

*Kibble & treats (single meat source) with ABSOLUTELY NO Chicken ingredients(chicken, chicken meal, chicken fat, chicken cartilage, eggs etc), yeast, grains or flax seed? 

*ProBiotics and Digestive Enzymes?

*Non Grain Shampoo? IF you have a dog that is sensitive to grains, beware of other GLUTEN BASED ingredients, with names that we do not recognize, that could be in the Doggie Shampoo that you are using!
*WHEAT:* hydrolyzed wheat protein or triticum vulgare (wheat) or stearyldimoniumhydroxypropyl (hydrolyzed wheat protein) or hydroxypropyltrimonium (hydrolyzed wheat protein).
*OATMEAL:* or avena sativa
*BARLEY*: hordeum vulgare or maltodextrin (can also be from barley)
*RYE:* secale cereale
*Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein* can be derived from: Soy, Corn, or Wheat



Raw Foods:
*Bravo:* Discover Balance Raw Diet | Beef Frozen Raw Dog Food Diet - Bravo Pet Food Find a store: Find a Bravo Retailer - Bravo Pet Food 
*Northwest Naturals: *Beef Find a store: Store Locator
*Primal: *Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Beef Formula Find a store: Primal Pet Foods: Store Locator

Feeding calculator: http://cms.nw-naturals.net/raw/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92&Itemid=448 


Make sure you also check the ingredients on treats! 
*Bravo Bonus Bites:* are 100% all meat, and made from all natural, antibiotic-free, grain free meats and organ meat protein sources.
Example:_ "Dry Roasted" Buffalo Liver: _Ingredients Grass-fed buffalo liver.
_"Freeze Dried Treats" - Venison Liver:_ Ingredients Grass-fed venison liver.


Kibble Suggestions:
*Nature's Variety "Instinct" Limited* not Nature's Recipe): Limited Ingredient Lamb: (can be purchased at PetsMart, Petco) Instinct Grain-Free Limited Ingredient Kibble Dog Food - Lamb | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats 
Ingredients: Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Pea Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Lamb, Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract
Store locator: Find A Store | Nature's Variety

*Acana Limited:* Pork & Butternut Squash: http://acana.com/our-foods/singles/pork-butternut-squash/ 
Ingredients: Deboned pork*, pork meal, green lentils, red lentils, pork liver*, butternut squash*, pork fat, green peas, yellow peas, canola oil, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin*, carrots*, pork kidney*, freeze-dried pork liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. They also have a limited lamb.
Store locator: Store Locator | Acana


Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut (immune system helps fight allergens) it is very important to keep it very healthy. Below are 2 Human Ingredient Products:
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz
http://www.thewholisticpet.com/cani...tive-support/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html
*OR
*
*Gut Sense: *(Pro-Biotic & Pre Biotic): GutSense - certified organic probiotic for dogs 


Moms


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## Momto2GSDs

Moriah said:


> Hi! I sent in to Nutriscan (Dr. Dobbs' lab) for their kit for testing for food intolerances. It was enlightening to see the results. My dog is biting at his fur. My guy needs probiotics to help his digestion. I already had him on a raw diet or I think it would be worse. So I am avoiding reactive foods--which is a lot 28 out of 30. The only things he did not react to was Beef and Lamb. So I am working to get his immune system and digestive system strengthened. Probiotics/digestive enzymes/ non-reactive foods. i am feeding him fresh apple pieces and blueberries and a supplement for vitamins and minerals.
> 
> What is your dog's skin problem? I understand not wanting to cover up the symptoms, but to treat the cause.


NutiScan has helped many MANY dogs on this blog.

Some speak against it......I think it's fantastic and it saved my GrandDog from itching day and night from the info provided.

Moms

Here are some specifics of the test:
NutriScan: This test measures antibodies to certain foods in dog saliva. High antibody levels indicate that the dog has a food sensitivity and intolerance to that food or foods. Food intolerance or sensitivity is actually quite common whereas *food allergy is rare*. In fact, food intolerance is the third most common sensitivity condition in dogs and often can be *easily remedied with a change in diet.* Dr. Jean Dodds, NutriScan tests for the twenty most commonly ingested foods by dogs to provide you with specific results as to your dog's food intolerances or sensitivities. Since it is a salivary test, you have the convenience to complete the test at home or at your veterinarian’s office. Best of all, you can have the results in approximately two weeks to help you put your dog on the right diet.
Remember, NutriScan is novel and patented and *is not testing for food allergies*, but rather *tests for food sensitivities and intolerance*. These are different body immune responses. Food allergy is a more immediate reaction mediated by production of IgE and IgG antibodies. Food sensitivity and intolerance, by contrast, measures a more delayed body response to offending foods by measuring production of IgA and IgM antibodies primarily in mucosal secretions from the bowel.”

*Q. How does this test differ from other food “allergy” tests on serum or feces ? *
*A.* Food allergy tests measure antibodies to *IgG* and *IgE* in serum or feces. These are typically more acute allergic reactions to foods, whereas NutriScan measures *IgA* and *IgM* antibodies on the bowel’s mucosal surface, and thus more directly correlates to symptoms of bowel (GI tract) disease.


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## Quinnsmom

Moriah said:


> What is your dog's skin problem? I understand not wanting to cover up the symptoms, but to treat the cause.


Quinn has no known food allergies but many years ago I eliminated all forms of chicken from his diet as it seemed to make him itch more. His digestion is fine, and he is on Acana Pork and Squash with some home cooked veggies and some table meat. He has had skin testing by a dermatologist vet and came up positive for dust mites only. He has a mild degree of itching and scratching, does not chew anywhere but has constant skin lesions that are driving us both nuts. Right now we are trying the oral desensitization serum and he is bathed with chlorhexidine shampoo once or twice a week. The vet is pushing for Apoquel but I'm holding back - once that no longer works, what then? I don't know if Nutriscan would be appropriate for him. Maybe Momto2GSDs could chime in.

Does your dog bite and chew to the point of breaking the skin? Is skin infection a secondary problem with him?


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## Moriah

Does your dog bite and chew to the point of breaking the skin? Is skin infection a secondary problem with him?


Yes, three days of venison was a costly vet visit as he chewed holes in his outfit. He was put on antibiotics for it. That's been it, but I've been feeding raw.

By raw feeding I was able to kind of sort out things like Rabbit and duck were really reactive. I gage things by how forceful he is about chewing on his fur. I think if he had been of kibble, it would be much worse as he is VERY intolerant to peas/lentils/eggs/salmon and white fish oil. I got down to feeding just one meat with nothing else--no probiotics, vitamins, etc. Science experiment. . . . I laugh at the elimination diet--my guy is intolerant of rice/potatoes/oatmeal/all fish/many meats except beef and lamb. At this point pheasant may be okay. I have emu and alpaca in my freezer, but haven't tried them yet. Started probiotics/enzymes and vitamin/mineral mix first--doing it intermittently to see if that is a problem.

It might be worth checking out the nutriscan test. You can do it at home and mail it in to Dr. Dobbs' lab.

I have serious environmental and food allergies. So if my guy has environmental allergies from anything in the house, not more I can do, because my house doesn't bother me--and I am a canary.


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## MakGSD

Thanks for all the quick replies. Here's some more information. 

I've had Mak since a puppy in 2009, and within the first year he showed signs of ear problems. Dark smelly build-up etc. That started the rounds of steroids and antibiotics and otomax ointment from the vets and diet changes. I changed him to many different foods and after a while, I was able to get his ears to a manageable state so it never concerned me much more. 

Then around 2013-2014 he started developing skin problems. The skin on his belly became very dark and he began loosing hair and scratching constantly. At first it was slow and only a small patch of his belly. Now after the next few years, it progressed all along his belly and up his neck. He also has lost some fur on his face around his eyes from rubbing it on his bed and furniture, and missing fur from his paws and elbows.

I consulted many different vets. Every time was the same--- Diagnosis allergies; Treatment steroids and antibiotics. 

Whenever I asked about the things I've found in research like: "The steroids suppress his immune system; Could he have leaky gut syndrome; Its gotta be the carb and preservative filled food; I think its coming from inside him not from the environment." The vets just play dumb and don't really answer and hand me some home cooking suggestions written by HILLS Science Diet. Finally I expressed to my last vet that I was upset about how much money I have given her clinic and haven't seen any results. She called the next day and said there's this new magic drug 'Apoquel.' I just don't trust it and feel there's gotta be some natural ways to fix this that I'm just missing right now. That was the last I spoke with that vet. 

Where we are now:

Mak was given steroids in April from the last vet, and of course his skin cleared up for the time being, but then returned to ruins once the steroid wore off. He is missing fur from his belly, sides, face, elbows, and paws. Its dark, crusty, smells, is hot at times and he looses lots of dry skin flakes from scratching (sometimes scratches till he bleeds). He also has discharge from his ears and scratches uncontrollably. 

He is currently eating Orijen 6 fish, only because I refuse to put him back on the Royal Canin HP or Hills ZD diets and picked that as being a kibble without grains, potatoes or a lot of preservatives. 

Around the end of 2015 I did try switching him to a raw diet, but I don't think I did it right and introduced some of the organ meets to him too quickly. He began having bad diarrhea and lost a lot of weight. The vet was concerned and had me put him back on kibble food. 

From this site I learned about Dr. Jean Dodd's and found that her clinic is only and 1.5 hours away from me (I'm a San Diego Resident). So last week I took him in for his first appointment at Hemopet and he saw Dr. Adam Lassin. We ran a full blood and Thyroid test. I was actually hoping there was a problem with his Thyroid as it may be easier to treat than allergies, but unfortunately the test shows all normal Thyroid function and his blood counts were okay as well. 

In the past I had allergy testing through VARL done for environmental and food allergies. Dr. Lassin said those are accurate for environmental allergies but not food, so he wants me to run the Nutriscan test. I just sent it in and will have a couple weeks until I get the results. I did have Mak on some probiotics and other supplements like Nupro and DMG, but Dr. Lassin had me pull him off everything until the Nutriscan results are in and we can adjust his diet then. 

I bathe him in Malaseb but currently have tried Murphy's Oil soap and Zymox shampoo as I was looking for something more natural to bathe him in and hopefully be more soothing. Sometimes it seems like the Chlorohexadrine makes him itchier....

Dr. Lassin prescribed antibiotics, keto, and Apoquel, along with some Chinese herb medicines (Wei qi booster and Damp Heat skin). I still haven't started the drugs as I'm concerned they're just gonna prove to be steps backwards just like every time hes gotten steroids, and I would like to wait till the Nutriscan results are in. I'm slowly starting the Chinese herbs. Has anyone had any luck with these???? 

Thanks again for all the help!

Mike


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## Traveler's Mom

MakGSD,

I forgot to mention in dissertation on Apoquel that I did the ImmuneIQ allergy test and Dr. Dodd's allergy test. A few results were the same, most were not. One said ok to chicken, one said he was highly sensitive to it. Traveler's Thyroid tests also came back as normal.

You are right about Malaseb and Chlorohexadine shampoos. They seem to really dry out the skin and his fur was almost kind of crispy stiff, not soft at all.

I will have to get back to you with the Chinese herbs I tried but I've had better results using Standard Process formulas, particularly mushroom and assorted bovine extracts.

I could open my own pharmacy.


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