# School me on hips and elbows!



## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Alright, everyone talks about the ofa ratings or sv ratings for hips and elbows, teach me what I need to know. I do not necessarily plan on breeding my dog. Not completely opposed to it if she ends up being titled, etc, but not necessarily in favor of it either. I will prob
Actually end up spaying after a few cycles (i HATE dealing with the heat stuff..) I do feel that either way I will get my dog xrayed. What age should I do this? 


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

You need to wait until 2 years old, if you want to OFA.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

If you are doing dog sport than I think you should consider getting prelims. Official hips can be important but it is good to know the situation before you start training the more physical aspects of sport on those hips.

Vandal is 6 months and my breeder has said we can do prelims with a good reliability at any point now. One of the litter mates already had theirs done.

I do wonder about opinions as to the ideal age to get prelims though. Right now, I’m going to aim for before we start the more physically taxing training.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sv xrays can be submitted at 1yr. Its fairly pricey. About 200 to submit but they also look at the spine.

Ofa prelims are at 6 months or older. Official OFAs are at 2. 

Xrays run about 400 to 600.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> Sv xrays can be submitted at 1yr. Its fairly pricey. About 200 to submit but they also look at the spine.
> 
> Ofa prelims are at 6 months or older. Official OFAs are at 2.
> 
> Xrays run about 400 to 600.


@Jax08, what do you feel is the ideal age for prelims on a schutzhund dog?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

CeraDean said:


> @Jax08, what do you feel is the ideal age for prelims on a schutzhund dog?


Since my dogs are pets first, if they are not having symptoms then I would not do prelims.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> Since my dogs are pets first, if they are not having symptoms then I would not do prelims.


This is mostly what I was wondering. So what is regarded higher? Sv or ofa?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nscullin said:


> This is mostly what I was wondering. So what is regarded higher? Sv or ofa?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ofa is good. Seger was thru ofa. Faren will be SV per her contract otherwise I would have done ofa. 

The only reason to do SV is if you want an SV BREED survey or you are goi g to the wusv. And SV breed surveys mean nothing outside of Germany so you can do a USCA BS that is the exact same thing with the exact same judge.

SV is looking at the spine more but OFA is starting to look at the transitional vertebrae.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I do prelims around a year of age(don't send them in though) because I want to know how the hips/elbows and spine look. I would rather be proactive in knowing, especially when doing sport. If there is an issue, I can then get the dog on the best supplemental care to keep a condition from getting worse.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I like to have a view done around 6-7 months for my piece of mind. Additionally, at 12 months I will submit for SV officials and OFA prelims. If I can swing it, I like to have OFA officials done at 2 years as well. I like to see how the joints have finished developing between 1 and 2 years.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GatorDog said:


> I like to have a view done around 6-7 months for my piece of mind. Additionally, at 12 months I will submit for SV officials and OFA prelims. If I can swing it, I like to have OFA officials done at 2 years as well. I like to see how the joints have finished developing between 1 and 2 years.


You do OFA and SV? Are you comparing information? Is there info you get from one but not the other?


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

So not my post but I'm hearing a lot about OFA, this question may be relevant to the OP. What do people think of Penhipp? Reading more about it, it does sound like it could be beneficial to do as well.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I do the SV at age 1 just to satisfy the health guarantee contract and be one and done. If you ask 10 people the difference you will get 10 varying answers. 

Things I have been told in favor of OFA:
Sometimes hips tighten up as they age
You can redo them if you are not happy with results
They can be awake
They cost less

Things I've been told in favor of SV:
Counts for SV breed survey
Is done younger so less chance of femoral remodeling
One vet grades them, so more of a consistent opinion 
Now looks at LUW and Spondyo if you request a rating

* I do not know how much of that is true, or what, I am sharing what I have been told by people who work and breed their dogs

Personally,and because I keep my dogs no matter what...I'm not paying for it or subjecting them to anything if they aren't symptomatic. But I do have stipulations on health guarantees and I would like to stud them if and when they pass muster. So there you go.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

CometDog said:


> Things I have been told in favor of OFA:
> Sometimes hips tighten up as they age
> You can redo them if you are not happy with results
> They can be awake
> They cost less


I understood that the dog should be sedated for hip x-rays. Is there actually a different degree of sedation for SV verses OFA?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

SV requires sedation, OFA does not


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## goneridin2 (Aug 6, 2019)

CeraDean said:


> If you are doing dog sport than I think you should consider getting prelims. Official hips can be important but it is good to know the situation before you start training the more physical aspects of sport on those hips.
> 
> Vandal is 6 months and my breeder has said we can do prelims with a good reliability at any point now. One of the litter mates already had theirs done.
> 
> I do wonder about opinions as to the ideal age to get prelims though. Right now, I’m going to aim for before we start the more physically taxing training.


It sounds like you are on the right path. It would always be my suggestion that anyone considering training get radiographs prior to putting your dog/horse under training that may stress the joints/bones. One reason would be to ensure that all affected growth plates are closed. The other reason would be to verify the status of the hips and elbows. And, thirdly, it is always preferable to have a benchmark, when possible.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

@ Kazel,
PennHIP is based on the theory that hip laxity leads to degenerative changes. One early study that followed generations of Golden Retrievers showed that selecting breeding partners with favorable PennHIP scores reduced laxity but not the incidence of HD.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

We did OFA Prelims and are submitting for SV "a" stamp. I will re xray at 2 for OFA officals. I've heard of dogs passing at 1 and failing at 2. Or dogs going Normal in one system to dysplastic in another (Keep in mind OFA is Pass/Fail for elbows whereas SV is a1, a2, a3. What is passing in SV may not pass in OFA). It's intresting but gives me very little faith in the systems themselves sometimes.

Edit to add: depending on where you go, it can be cheaper. I would definitely shop around your area for the best price - but I'd make sure to ask around your local sport dog community (or here!) for recommendations on places. I had OFA prelims done for $250 with good positioning.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Katsugsd said:


> We did OFA Prelims and are submitting for SV "a" stamp. I will re xray at 2 for OFA officals. I've heard of dogs passing at 1 and failing at 2. Or dogs going Normal in one system to dysplastic in another (Keep in mind OFA is Pass/Fail for elbows whereas SV is a1, a2, a3. What is passing in SV may not pass in OFA). It's intresting but gives me very little faith in the systems themselves sometimes.
> 
> Edit to add: depending on where you go, it can be cheaper. I would definitely shop around your area for the best price - but I'd make sure to ask around your local sport dog community (or here!) for recommendations on places. I had OFA prelims done for $250 with good positioning.


$250 sounds like a great price ?


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

OFA Fee Schedule | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO


Learn more about OFA's testing services offered and the corresponding rates on our fee schedule. Contact us for more information regarding pricing.




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OFA will do prelims from 4-24 months of age, but will not publish them publicly until after 12 months of age. After 24 months of age, OFA considers them official ratings. You can resubmit to OFA at any time, its not one and done. Poor positioning, or close to heat cycle could have affected the x-rays. "The OFA will re-evaluate animals as often as the owner likes. However, the re-evaluation must be based on a new set of radiographs. All consensus evaluations on a given radiograph submission are final. In all cases, the results from the most recent radiograph will dictate the animal’s final OFA consensus evaluation as well as the results displaying on the OFA website." 

I am taking my 12 month old in on Monday for Hip/Elbow prelims, dentition, cardiac, patellar luxation, thyroid testing. I think it is a great tool to evaluate your dog and how you will move forward with that dog in the future. Before I continue to do showing and herding and titles, will she pass to be my next breeding dog. 

I am thinking I will do OFA and PENNHIP at 24 months, if we get that far. I was told PENNHIP does a better rating of laxity, OFA doesn't evaluate it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Nscullin 

Sitting here waiting for Faren's xrays right now. I either need food, sleep or prozac.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> @Nscullin
> 
> Sitting here waiting for Faren's xrays right now. I either need food, sleep or prozac.


Prob a little of all lol. Question for you, how much did faren weigh around 9 months. I’m starting to think my girl is going to be a little one too


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nscullin said:


> Prob a little of all lol. Question for you, how much did faren weigh around 9 months. I’m starting to think my girl is going to be a little one too
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't know. She weighs 50# now at 18 months. she just makes standard at 55 cm


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