# Choosing a breeder



## MD in SC (Jul 29, 2011)

My family is considering bring a new GSD into the mix. As of right now we have one 80lb Shepherd/lab mix who is 7. We had a Beagle but had to unfortunately put him down after 11 great years, which is something my wife and daughter took very hard. We have looked into GSD's due to their obedience, loyalty, and trainability. We are looking into using the breeder listed below and I was curious if anyone could give me some feedback on the breeder and/or pedigree. Only thing that worries me is they only offer a 1 year hip dysplasia warranty, whereas I though 18 months was the standard. Any advise, help, or input would be greatly appreciated.

Von der Casio German Shepherds/Home Page

Thanks so much,

Mike


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Looks like a working/show cross. I would ask the breeder why they chose this particular cross. Mixing lines like this can have very good or very bad results (or both) and it's more of a crapshoot than breeding within lines so I would want the breeder to explain in detail why this cross was chosen and what could be expected.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Make sure you've read up on all the links included on this site ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Very cute puppies!


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Don't see any rhyme, reason or goal for that breeding. Would love to know what the breeder's intentions were, other than selling puppies. 
A 1 year hip guarantee is not wonderful so you are right to be concerned. GSDs don't physically mature until much later which is why the hip certifications can't be done until age 2. You can xray before then, but it isn't submissible because they aren't considered mature.
I believe this is a repeat breeding, so is there anyway to see or talk to the owners of the pups from the previous breeding? That would be about the only way I could think of to get an idea of what you might end up with. Like has been said, breeding working line to show line can go either way. 
Annette


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

They bought a female. They loved that female. Oh and let's breed her . 
They buy a male . And they become hobby breeders .

Cliff , is Cliff in the house ?

There is no rhyme or reason to this breeding whatsoever. All I can see is requisite biological units (male) x (female) of the same breed = puppies with four legs and prick ears .

Clueless --- they have NO experience . Have never worked the dogs , may not know what ideal temperament is , if you run into a problem they can't help you because they don't know themselves.

Why is breeding a hobby .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Of course it is a repeat breeding . And in a year there will probably be another repeat breeding . How many do they intend to do ? Will they ever grow and look to another stud ? Will they get interested and do something with their dogs such as join a local training club , at the very very least go and watch some trials ?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I am curious as well what they were hoping to get from the pairing. Both dogs look good as individuals. But not sure about the pairing of them. Mike, are you looking for a breeder close to SC? What are your plans for your new addition (when you get one)?


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## MD in SC (Jul 29, 2011)

dawnandjr said:


> I am curious as well what they were hoping to get from the pairing. Both dogs look good as individuals. But not sure about the pairing of them. Mike, are you looking for a breeder close to SC? What are your plans for your new addition (when you get one)?


Yes, I would be looking for a breeder close to SC. As far as goals for the dog, we would like a family pet that could be trained in tracking, obedience, and very moderate protection (if any on the protection side since I have a 7 and 4 year old).

This is a repeat breeding and there is one dog at the residence from the previous litter. I don't really know what they were trying to gain by mixing a working line w/ a show line. I am new to all of this pedigree stuff.

Thanks for all the input...

Mike


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

NO! As every one else says, this is a mix breeding with no obvious goals or rationale other than the people own 2 dogs. I see a few very very red flags....I saw one of the grandsires a few times. A powerful working male, high drive - not a dog I would use to breed for the pet market...his character could have been invaluable if your goal was LE K9s or sport dogs, but not a dog I would sell pets out of....this is typical breeding of some who just wants to sell puppies and is not knowledgable or active in any aspect of proving or bettering the breed.

Look at the gsdca.org and germanshepherddog.com sites for breeders and litters. They list member's litters and there should be something in a west german show line litter suitable for pets....I believe Global haus is down that way....

Lee


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## MD in SC (Jul 29, 2011)

Well we took the 2.5 hour round trip ride to see the remainder of the litter and the parents. The father (Xin) was one of the most laid back dogs I have ever seen. Our presence, at fist, made him curious and then maybe 5 minutes in he was off to do his own thing with the occasional walk-by sniffing or licking. The mother (Anya) or the other hand was a high drive dog that didn't welcome us until after about 10 minutes with us standing in the room talking to the owner, while she was in the cage. When she got out of the cage she inspected us thoroughly and became very distant, but more in a private way, not an aggressive manner at all. The son from the previous litter (Aurnulf) was IMO very high-strung. As far as the puppies go there were probably about 3 of them that were very, very active with only one female and one male that were relaxed, unless provoked by another puppy. The breeder we spoke with was a very pleasant women with (what I would call) moderate GSD knowledge. 

I explained my concerns over the 1 year HD warranty and I was also concerned with the fact that neither the sire or dam on-site have had hip verification. I guess I'm still somewhat on the fence, but am leaning the way of no w/ these dogs. 

I would love to hear anymore inputs that folks may have. I also really appreciate all the responses thus far.

-Mike


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm glad you went , checked them out and are 'thinking' about it vs the very hard thing of walking away from cute puppies.

I think the thing that would bother me, (other than what has been posted), is your impression of the breeders limited knowledge..

I want a breeder that knows their stuff Keep looking, lots of good breeders out there, Johnsonhaus comes to mind in your area , not sure how close you are to them tho..Carolina is a member of the board, has beautiful dogs


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

From your description, working line people can correct me, I have limited experience with working lines, but the bitch seems more than high drive. You should be able to have a high drive dog, high enough for police work, that can be safe enough to be used for a demo for kindergarteners. 

A mature bitch, at least three years old if this is a repeat breeding with yearling pups, should not have to be kept in a crate with you in the room for ten minutes, before they let her out. I often meet the car in my front yard with my bitch. The bitches temperament is the key here because not only does her genetics contribute to the pups' temperament, but she also imprints them for 4-8 weeks while they are being raised. If she is nervous, they will be nervous. If she is high strung, they will likely be high strung, if she has to be kept in a crate for ten minutes before being able to come out and meet you, well, if that is what you want with the puppy, I think that is where you want to focus your answer.

Yes she has a contract, warranty, and questionaire. 2 years from the purchase date for hips and elbows would be closer to the standard. That is when they can be OFA'd. However, if you are not picky, you can penn hip at 1 year. It bothers me that they did not bother though. You have to wonder why. 

Was that for just hips, or hips and elbows, or any thing genetic? I did not download that form, sorry.

As for the questionaire. Well, I think by putting info on showing on here, that is kind of leading people astray I think. I think it would be 10 to 1 against having anything showable out of a working/show cross. If you injected a working line dog with good conformation into your show lines, for a purpose, you might get something on your first generation, but I think it would probably be the second or even third generation that you would actually work with. Again, not impossible, but improbable in my opinion. I do not see that they have shown the sire or dam, so having them pick a show prospect would really be out there. 

Perhaps they would just turn people down who were looking for a show dog. I would on that breeding, not because the dogs were no good, but rather because with an outcross like that, I think that the ability to choose a show prospect and have it pan out would be too much against. Of course that does not mean much if you are looking for a pet. 

If you are looking for a pet, consider the bitch in the crate though. That bothers me. They said they needed to do that because she is high drive? My inclanation is to say, RUN!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

MD in SC said:


> I explained my concerns over the 1 year HD warranty and I was also concerned with the fact that neither the sire or dam on-site have had hip verification. I guess I'm still somewhat on the fence, but am leaning the way of no w/ these dogs.


Neither of the parents have OFA? Big time NO.

I didn't look at the website, but from others' comments it sounds like this person has no rhyme, reason, or goal for breeding, and doesn't really have a clue what they are doing; those puppies will be a crapshoot. Good on you for being able to walk away without a pup, it's a hard thing to do.


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## MD in SC (Jul 29, 2011)

Got a PM from cliffson1 this evening and we ended up talking via phone, and all I can say is wow and thanks.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Red flag is being waved as you describe the dam.

I have two very very high drive bitches....I do not need to crate them if someone is here - well maybe if the vistor does not want a slobbery ball dumped repeated on his self or a 65+ pound GSD sharing his seat.

Top this all off with NO OFAs????? Run, don't walk, away!!!!!!!!!

The inconsistancy you saw in the pups is because crossing show and work lines does not normally result in a pup blended of both types, but by pups being different from each other depending on what parent's genetics dominate the individual pup.


Lee


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## PaulH (Aug 24, 2005)

Cliff knows his stuff . I agree with everyone else that replied. Drive over around atlanta. There are lots of excellent breeders over that way. Linienbach, Traumblick and NorrisK9 in Alabama. There are many others around you. Try von der sauk. I think she moved to SC.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I also knew the same dog Lee mentioned well - and she is definitely right about his temperament! He was a very tough and powerful dog. I was always impressed by him, but he was definitely not the type of dog who should be bred willy-nilly. I've also heard stories about one of the dam's great-grandsires and he was very tough with a lot of social aggression. 

I agree with what the others have said about the breeding (run away!) but thought I'd chime in since I know some of the dogs in the ped.


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