# Schutzhund newbie, best tips & tools recommended



## cheburashka95 (Nov 15, 2012)

Hi Everyone:
I'm new to Schutzhund and I was curious what tips and tools people would recommend. I don't wanna run out and buy a bunch of things I really won't need right away. I need to get a better collar for my dog and several people like the fur-saver collars, but I after looking at them online, I am not sure if I need a short link or a long link. Also, which length of training leash should I invest in? We're going to work on tracking next week and I'd like to have a long training leash. (that's something I would use at training and on my own when I want to work my dog outside of a fenced in area.) 

Oh and any thoughts on vari-kennel vs metal crates? Need one for the car to go to training. 

Any tips and advice are welcome. Thanks!
Lori & Gitchi


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What age is Gitchi? Crate is important, a good vari-kennel is enough for most dogs. In your location a crate fan is a given & a water bucket that latches on the crate.

If you are starting in a week, have a good collar(buckle leather is ok until you get the fursaver/prong) and a thick leather 6' line. 
Your TD will recommend what is necessary and where to buy from, hopefully. When you begin tracking, you don't need that long trial size line yet....but I've used mine from day one, and it is an ASAT material which is good for wet conditions, so the $ invested was never wasted. ASAT Lead 33' L-Elite K-9 I use a fursaver from day one as well when tracking, and you can hook double lines if necessary onto a fursaver. Muck boots or waterproof boots for tracking is a good idea, so make sure what you wear is waterproof. I also use a vest, so have access to pockets to load my articles, bait, corner marker washers when laying the track. For a young dog learning a flag, bait is all you need.

For most of my equipment, I've ordered from elite or hallmark. 
Fursavers are a given, as well as a prong, tab, obedience line~I have a 3/8" 4' that is nice for ob/hook it over my shoulder easily. I prefer a larger gauge fursaver as my male has a big head and neck. He wears a 27"!
Don't forget the reward toys, synthetic tug, ball on string and tracking bait(articles/flag/washers to mark turns~much later for these!) & the dumbbells.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I like vari-kennel better than wire for travel. Best is those nice wt-metall type crates.

For schh, I like:
Fursaver : Dog Equipment, Police Dog, Schutzhund, Service Dog, Dog Agility
2 inch Leather Dog Collar with Handle and Felt - $32.00 : Dog Equipment, Police Dog, Schutzhund, Service Dog, Dog Agility
https://www.rayallen.com/product/leather_harness_with_side_release_buckle/Harnesses
https://www.rayallen.com/product/ram-tech_leather_alternative_agitation_leads/RAM-Tech_Working_Leads
https://www.rayallen.com/category/Tugs_Balls_Toys_Rewards
Tracking & Long Lines : Dog Equipment, Police Dog, Schutzhund, Service Dog, Dog Agility
Herm Sprenger Stainless Steel Prong Collar - $22.99 : Dog Equipment, Police Dog, Schutzhund, Service Dog, Dog Agility
https://www.rayallen.com/product/latigo_leather_braided_obedience_leads/Leather_Working_Leads


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

This is what all of our new members get when they first join. It has lists of some of the equipment.

http://www.coppercreekdvg.com/images/stories/download/welcomepktforum.pdf


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Annette, your file should be a sticky on here!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Agree!


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Annette, your file should be a sticky on here!


, Thanks! I found myself constantly answering the same questions, but never had time to tell newbs all the stuff we thought would be helpful. I finally sat down and wrote everything down and it has been a real timesaver. I noticed that it's now missing the page of commands and is also missing a paragraph from my printed version so I'm thinking I'll be doing an update this week. 
Also, the links don't seem to be working and I know they used to (maybe not, I"ll have to check).


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## cheburashka95 (Nov 15, 2012)

Thank you so much for all the great info & web links! Very much appreciated. Gitchi is 8 months old. I want to get her a nice collar, but I hate to spend a lot right now when she's still growing. I've got a prong-collar for her now & will probably order a fur-saver collar this week. Gitchi is on the smaller side for a female, I think. She's weighed about 55# on 10/27 so I'm not sure exactly what she weighs right now, but maybe around #60. So would you think the larger sized links for the fur-saver or smaller? I know the trainers were saying that thicker is better for bite work when they're really pulling & for her sized, I'd say she's already a pretty strong girl. We're a pretty new club, so even the experienced people in our group are learning how we'll proceed each week with training. We don't have our Training Director yet, like I said, it's a very new group that's trying to get going. How long/often do you guys meet to train? The one page I went to looked like about 30 min increments for obedience, then bite work. Do you guys work all 3 elements every week? Do you think the vari-kennels are as strong as the wire ones? I just don't want my dog to become an escape artist, & I've read some online reviews that people's sheperds broke out of the plastic kennels. 

Thanks Again!


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

Basically commenting on here so I can refference this thread quickly and have related questions. I'm taking Grim to his first evalution from a club on the 27th and need to find a crate. Some great info on here. 

One question is do you recomend the 35" or 40" crate? Grim is 3 1/2 months old now so I don't know how to judge the crate size. His dad was around 80lbs 

Also curious has anyone used or seen these folding crates by elite k9? 
http://www.elitek9.com/Military-Working-Dog-Crate-Large-Collapsible-Tan/productinfo/KC03L/
*edited becaue I put the wrong link 
As soon As I purchase a truck I wanted a metal crate.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I tend to use the 40" for all of my adult dogs though the girls fit fine in the 36". I recommend the plastic crates since I have seen far fewer dogs pop the doors on them. My favorites are my Kustom Krates Kustom Krates home page or something similar, but they are very expensive. Worth the price in the long run, though. 

I have no experience with the crates you linked to. I would need to see them in person.


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

Thanks, I'll go for 40" plastic until I can get the truck and heavier grade crate.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> What age is Gitchi? Crate is important, a good vari-kennel is enough for most dogs. In your location a crate fan is a given & a water bucket that latches on the crate.
> 
> If you are starting in a week, have a good collar(buckle leather is ok until you get the fursaver/prong) and a thick leather 6' line.
> Your TD will recommend what is necessary and where to buy from, hopefully. When you begin tracking, you don't need that long trial size line yet....but I've used mine from day one, and it is an ASAT material which is good for wet conditions, so the $ invested was never wasted. ASAT Lead 33' L-Elite K-9 I use a fursaver from day one as well when tracking, and you can hook double lines if necessary onto a fursaver. Muck boots or waterproof boots for tracking is a good idea, so make sure what you wear is waterproof. I also use a vest, so have access to pockets to load my articles, bait, corner marker washers when laying the track. For a young dog learning a flag, bait is all you need.
> ...


I pretty much use 1/2" ASAT lines exclusively.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I use a harness (get them made by an Amish harness makere), and either a 7 foot leather lead or an 8 foot braided wider one for agittion work...I have AST in a couple of widths and lengths (also get custom made by Amish guy) and have agitation collars in my bag as well....dogs wear fursavers for everyday, and have various sized prongs...

I like 5/8 to 3/4 inch lines and have braided tabs in various lengths - from 7 inches to 3 foot - no handles, so for motion exercises and recalls, dog never gets its foot caught in a loop

Lee


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

prefer agitation collars over harnesses-they just annoy me...


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Holland,

Same here. No harnesses in tracking or protection training.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Both, and protection, and tracking would be better to do with harness, if possible, with a handle:
German Shepherd harness, dog harnesses, leather dog harness, nylon dog harness, training dog harness, best dog harness
Away with it agitation collar:
Leerburg | Leather Agitation Collar with Handle
6 feet leash:
PK9 Leads & Long-lines - ProK9
And a metal whistle (instead of making yourself red in face when shouting):


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't use a harness for tracking, just a fursaver. Nobody that I train with ever, ever use a harness when tracking. And in IPO, whistles are not used either. 
David Taggart, do you train in the sport?


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

Hunter wolf and onyx,
What do you travel to trials with vehicle wise, van, truck SUV?

If you have a truck how hard are the welded crates to remove?
Do you use a ramp at all?
And what are some techniques to use when getting the dog out of the crate in a controlled manner?
My fear is looking disrespectful and not having control if the dog bolted past from the crate. I use a crate at home and Grim is so excited to exit, when he does he does some circles running around me then downstairs. Giving commands in the crate doesn't work he' he'll sit but as soon as the door is cracked he runs out (this when I come home from work etc)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have a boring mini van. Also have a 4 door GMC Sierra with a topper, but seldom use it anymore for training. No ramp for either vehicle. Yesterday I had a scare at training. Karlo jumped up into his wire crate and caught his back foot as he was going in. That ramped him up big time and he started growling/snarling at me when I attempted to free his foot. I had to let him do it on his own so he wouldn't twist it worse. Thank Dog, he wasn't injured. I used some vet wrap to seal the bottom of the crate where the tray goes in, so hopefully he won't do that again. It was very scary and I know he would have bitten me if I didn't back off. He was in a panic/pain filled mode. 
As far as control when exiting the crate:
I make my dog stay in the crate while I put on whatever flat collar I'll be using...he isn't crazy over the top, but biddable. Then when I have the flat collar(fursaver or rolled leather) on, I tell him to get out/sit and then put on whatever equipment I need for the session. I've always blocked the crate when opening from early puppyhood, so my dog never had the opportunity to escape.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Seems to work well with us without the harness in both phases. Handler learns to read the dog and the dog does not learn to "swim", especially in the B&H.


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

Haha ok, Yeah I need a truck just for the utility of it for things around the house but I have seen a lot of posts about vans after doing a search.
I guess my next step is an auto sit when he leaves the crate and practice a few times with the leash on. What age is ok to use the fur saver? Grim is 3 1/2 months and I had read corrections shouldn't be used until around 6 months.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

fursavers aren't correction collars. If you do get one, get a 25"(though my male wears a 27" and even that is hard to wiggle over his ears. I only use a furesaver on the dead ring. 
Prongs are correction collars, I wait until about 6 months before introducing a prong.


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## TheJakel (May 2, 2013)

Oh ok, I just quickly read a description and it said in place of a choke collar. Should I get the 25" now even though he's still a pup?


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

TheJakel said:


> Hunter wolf and onyx,
> What do you travel to trials with vehicle wise, van, truck SUV?
> 
> If you have a truck how hard are the welded crates to remove?
> ...


I have a 4 dog trailer.

As far as harnesses or agitiation collars... different tools for different jobs. I use both depending on what I'm trying to accomplish.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have a truck and have used one for most of my years of dog training. Did manage to stuff a crate in the back seat of a Dodge Omni years ago and two crates in a Jeep Wrangler. LOL I have considered a van, but I am so comfortable in a truck that I am not sure I want to go that direction. I like my trucks.  

I also am one that rarely, if ever, uses a harness in protection. Sometimes when the dog is on the pole. I did track my first dog on a harness, but have worked on a fursaver for all of the rest.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> I used some vet wrap to seal the bottom of the crate where the tray goes in, so hopefully he won't do that again.


Glad Karlo wasn't hurt! Do you have any pictures of this? I have Blaze in a wire crate at home and there is a space towards the front door at the bottom that he's gotten his foot caught in- tried wrapping it in a towel, but he wants to eat the towel (he's almost 8 months old). Scratching my head trying to think of another solution as he's done it twice now and limped both times from getting his foot pinched


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

We were talking about that tonight, pups may want to eat the vetwrap so it isn't safe and maybe some plexi with holes drilled, ziptied may work for the ones that want to eat everything near the crate. Karlo doesn't do that, so he's safe with the vetwrap. I don't have any photo's(too dark right now to take any) But I just wrapped it around the bottom and overlapped it on the wire...it is so sticky, and so far has held up for the week(he's been in the crate 2 times since then)


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> We were talking about that tonight, pups may want to eat the vetwrap so it isn't safe and maybe some plexi with holes drilled, ziptied may work for the ones that want to eat everything near the crate.


Thanks for the advice - the plexi was a thought of mine too, nice to think now it could work! That was my suggestion to my husband, but he thought the towel would work better- I think the towel increases interest in an area I want him to leave alone. The plexi is a great idea! I'm going to try it.

(sorry to sidetrack the original topic)


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## HeidiGS (Jul 8, 2013)

What club are you in?(I live in Beaumont, Texas)


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