# Buying our first GSD puppy - Home alone



## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Hi All,

My fiance and I will be buying our first GSD puppy in coming months. We have both owned dogs before but are moving in together and are both share a love for German Shepherds and are very keen to buy one as soon as we move into our house together.

My question is regarding the puppy (getting a girl) being home alone.
When we get her she will most likely be around 8 weeks old from a repuatable breeder. I will take a week off work to spend time with the puppy and make sure she settles in okay. After that though I will be working fulltime hours (8-6) Monday to Friday and my fiance will also be working around 30 hours a week on varying days. We have worked out that there will be 4 days a week when no one is home from 9 - 5 (the other 3 either my fiance or myself will be home all day). Is this a huge problem? once she is big enough we plan to walk her morning and night everyday and also spend a large part of our days off playing with her at the park etc...Please note we will also have a fairly small backyard but obviously nothing too cramped. 

Can anyone is a similar situation offer advice? As far as when we get her and crating goes is it ok to leave her in the laundry? I have read a large amount of information here and will also certianly be getting her trained at obedience school and will ensure she is properly socialized. 

Thanks,

Steve


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Young puppies really can't hold it for more than a couple hours at a time. As the puppy gets older, it will be able to hold it longer, but at 8 weeks, don't expect more than a hour or two at most. Is there any way someone can stop in during the day?

Do you plan on crating at all times when you're unable to supervise? Rule number 1 when house breaking... the crate is your best friend. 

When you do crate... leave where you want when you're not there, but at night, bring the crate in the room with you... preferably right next to your bed. It will make a 8 week old puppy away from it's brothers and sisters for the first time feel much more comfortable than just being alone in a room.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Young puppies really can't hold it for more than a couple hours at a time. As the puppy gets older, it will be able to hold it longer, but at 8 weeks, don't expect more than a hour or two at most. Is there any way someone can stop in during the day?
> 
> Do you plan on crating at all times when you're unable to supervise? Rule number 1 when house breaking... the crate is your best friend.
> 
> When you do crate... leave where you want when you're not there, but at night, bring the crate in the room with you... preferably right next to your bed. It will make a 8 week old puppy away from it's brothers and sisters for the first time feel much more comfortable than just being alone in a room.


I am not sure if I would be crating her when we are both unable to supervise... is this advised for such a long period? I would have thought as the puppy gets a bit older it would be more happy to walk around the backyard? 

Also is it advisible to buy a crate? or just leave her in a room that is tiled and safe (laundry)

I will also look into getting someone to stop by during the day although some days this wont be possible.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

steven said:


> I am not sure if I would be crating her when we are both unable to supervise... is this advised for such a long period? I would have though as the puppy get a bit older it would be more happy to walk around the backyard?
> 
> Also is it advisible to buy a crate? or just leave her in a room that is tiled and safe (laundry)
> 
> I will also look into getting someone to stop by during the day although some days this wont be possible.


Absolutely crate at all times when you're not there to supervise. Puppies like to put everything they can in their mouth and can easily choke if no ones around to supervise. A crate is the safest place for a young puppy and also helps with house breaking. They won't go to the bathroom in the same place they sleep, so they learn to hold it while in the crate.

Would you trust a baby alone in a room to keep busy when you're not there to supervise? No, they're in cribs. It's the same idea with puppies and crates. Leaving a puppy alone outside is just asking for trouble.

For those first couple months, definitely try to get someone to stop in every couple hours if you can't.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Absolutely crate at all times when you're not there to supervise. Puppies like to put everything they can in their mouth and can easily choke if no ones around to supervise. A crate is the safest place for a young puppy and also helps with house breaking. They won't go to the bathroom in the same place they sleep, so they learn to hold it while in the crate.
> 
> Would you trust a baby alone in a room to keep busy when you're not there to supervise? No, they're in cribs. It's the same idea with puppies and crates. Leaving a puppy alone outside is just asking for trouble.
> 
> For those first couple months, definitely try to get someone to stop in every couple hours if you can't.


Thanks for your information Lucy - at what age can we take her out of the crate? Can anyone recommend a good crate to buy online?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Take her out of the crate when she's ready. Some dogs mature faster than others.

Also, don't think of the crate as a negative place. Make it a positive place for the puppy... make it their own special place. Always praise and treat when she goes in there. Never punish her by making her go in there after doing something wrong. The crate always needs to remain positive.

My current dog, Lucy, is 3 years old and still uses her crate every day. Not because she needs to because she's destructive, but because she loves being in there. She feels comfortable in there when I'm not there. She even goes in there when I am around on her own. I'll probably use the crate her whole life.

As for crates... midwest is a good brand. Get a larger crate (either 42" or 48") and make sure it has the divider. Give enough space for the puppy to completely stretch it's legs while laying on its side, but nothing more. As the puppy grows, just adjust the divider until you can just take the divider out. Trust me, it will come in handy as the puppy grows and you won't have to keep buying new crates as the puppy grows.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Take her out of the crate when she's ready. Some dogs mature faster than others.
> 
> Also, don't think of the crate as a negative place. Make it a positive place for the puppy... make it their own special place. Always praise and treat when she goes in there. Never punish her by making her go in there after doing something wrong. The crate always needs to remain positive.
> 
> ...


Thankyou - excuse my ignorance but why would you use the divider and give the puppy only enough space to stretch its legs when it will be possibly in there for 7 - 8 hours. Wouldn't giving them the full cage to play with toys, move around etc be a better option?

Also is anyone else in a similar situation when they need to leave there GSD for periods I am mentioning - is it a huge problem? how about when they are older? the breeder told me as long as they get regular exercise they are fine.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

You only want to give enough room to stretch and stand up... that's it. The crate is a great tool when house breaking because they won't pee where they sleep - the crate. If they have too much room, they'll pee on one side of the crate and sleep on the other which kind of makes the crate counterproductive from a house breaking standpoint. 

Give enough room in the crate to sleep and that's it. Don't even leave toys in there because they can swallow and choke on them. 

A dog isn't going to entertain itself when you're not there unless it's bored and getting destructive. It's much safer for a puppy to be bored in a crate than in a backyard or in a room somewhere with things to chew on. All they do when you're not there is sleep no matter where you leave them, so it might as well be in a safe place.

When you get home... make sure to make the most of it. After being alone that long, you're puppy is going to have A LOT of energy to get out, so try to make the most of that time when you are around.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

A general rule of thumb for how long pups can hold it is their age in months plus an hour - so an 8 week (or 2 month old) puppy would not be able to hold it longer than three hours at the very maximum, and a puppy won't be able to hold it for a full 8 hour work day until s/he is at least 7 MONTHS old.

It sounds like you are going to need to find a solution that allows for her to be taken outside under supervision at appropriate intervals when both you and your spouse are at work. You could probably find a friend, neighbor, family member, or even a local pet sitter to do this for you. Normally I'd also suggest a doggy day care but since she'll be so young, that won't be an option being that she'd be exposed to all sorts of germs before she's had all her shots.

It sounds to me like right now is possibly not the best time to bring a young puppy into your lives, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can't have a German Shepherd right now. Have you at all considered maybe getting a young dog from a breeder? Often times breeders have young dogs under 2 years that are available for whatever reason. Or you could probably find a young dog from a breed rescue, too.

As far as leaving a dog of any age in a fenced-in backyard unsupervised goes ... I would recommend against it. Seems like every other day I see a news article about dogs being stolen or escaping (jumping or tunneling) from back yards, being shot or poisoned by someone, or becoming the neighborhood nuisance with barking, howling, digging, or rushing the fence at passers-by. It's just not a good solution.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I would look for an older puppy, 12 weeks and up.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lucy Dog said:


> Give enough room in the crate to sleep and that's it. Don't even leave toys in there because they can swallow and choke on them.


I just want to reiterate this. No toys, no bedding, no nothing. Puppies get bored and start chewing/destroying anything they can get their mouths on and can easily choke on the pieces. This happens more than you would think.

As far as the idea that dogs need to entertain themselves during the day: I work from home a lot. Sometimes I'll get into a project and spend 7-8 hours working on the computer. You know what my dogs do? They sleep. THE WHOLE DAY. Sometimes they'll get really ambitious and move from the dog bed to the couch. 

Humans get bored and need to be constantly stimulated, so we project that on to our dogs, but dogs aren't like us. They sleep up to 18 hours in a 24 hour day. 

A crate really is the best place for your puppy.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

my puppy ate all his meals in his crate when i got him-so he LOVES his crate. even if he starts to get tired he will go in there on his own to sleep.
i want to reiterate too about puppies chewing EVERYTHING. and it doesn't stop!! my puppy is now 9 months old and my boyfriend was drunk last night and didn't latch the crate all the way (WHAT a dumbass) and we came down stairs to my pair of shoes torn into a MILLION pieces.
If you keep the puppy out in the yard unsupervised (like you mentioned early) they will dig and dig and dig. they will dig up everything, they will dig under the fence and escape. they will chew on wood and rocks. they will chew on the side of your house! German Sheps are amazing dogs but they need constant supervision, mental stimulation, human contact and exercise. i still don't leave my 9 month out of his crate unsupervised for more than 10 minutes or so. He recently learned how to untie knots (he also can open doors and unscrew tops on bottles).

you NEED to crate your dog if you are not home and if there are a few days a week you guys can't make it back to take him out to potty you need to hire a friend or a neighbor to take him out during the day.

i hope you can work through it as this is an extremely rewarding dog


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Or you can put a larger dog kennel in your basement or spare room. Put papers in one corner, though they will probably be shredded. And put a sleeping crate in another corner. Puppies are very good at picking out a potty spot when they have a confined area. 

Of course, then you will have to teach it not to potty in the house later. 

Portable Dog Kennels and Pet Fence by Options Plus, Inc.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Does anyone here work full time and has there GSD at home alone for some days during the week?
Once they are fully grown do you leave them inside or outside when they are alone? I guess the issue with a doggy door with a dog this size is that is not very good in terms of security.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Many of us are gone long hours but we have adult dogs. If I am gone more than 8 hours I actually have a friend come by and let my dog out. 

When I had my own puppies or foster puppies I either took them to someone else's house who could watch them while I was gone, took them to doggie daycare or I had someone come in every few hours to take them outside, play with them, etc. 

I think it's doable but I would consider getting an older puppy or young dog. That will make it easier on the dog and also on you! 

Also, you should start reading up on crate training, house breaking, etc. now!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

steven said:


> Does anyone here work full time and has there GSD at home alone for some days during the week?
> Once they are fully grown do you leave them inside or outside when they are alone? I guess the issue with a doggy door with a dog this size is that is not very good in terms of security.


There are plenty of people on the forum who leave their dogs crated 8 hours a day while they're at work. But most people either hired dog walkers, changed their schedules, took vacation, or got family members to go by in the middle of the day when their pup was young. 

I can tell you, however, that just because you and your spouse/partner both work full time, that doesn't _necessarily_ mean that your dog has to stay locked in for 8 hours. Maybe you have a neighborhood kid who can come over at 3:30 when he/she gets out of school for a buck or two a day. Maybe you have someone who is a stay-at-home mom/dad, a retiree, or someone or who works from home who would be willing to come over.

I work from home and for two years straight I went to my neighbor's house every day, Mon-Fri, let their dog out of the crate for an hour and let him play with my dog. It was good exercise and socialization for both of them. I never asked for money, but they usually gave me nice gifts at Christmas and my birthday.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> Many of us are gone long hours but we have adult dogs. If I am gone more than 8 hours I actually have a friend come by and let my dog out.
> 
> When I had my own puppies or foster puppies I either took them to someone else's house who could watch them while I was gone, took them to doggie daycare or I had someone come in every few hours to take them outside, play with them, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice - can you recommend any good sources of crate training, house breaking info?

Another question - people keep their full grown GSD's crated for 8 hours when they are away?? To me that just seems cruel, leaving the dog in the cage. Surely a fully grown GSD would be more happy with the freedom to roam the backyard, play with its toys etc?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

find someone to come in and give the pup a break
when you and your fiance are working.

don't leave the pup in the laundry because she might
wind up in the washer with the laundry.



steven said:


> Hi All,
> 
> As far as when we get her and crating goes is it ok to leave her in the laundry?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We (at our rescue) would recommend an older dog for people frequently gone more than 6-7hrs. a day.
If you must leave puppy home during this time, you'll want to use an exercise pen or kennel inside the house, or a large crate with room at one end for a puppy wee wee pad and the other to sleep/play.
If you do get a young puppy it would be a good idea to have someone pop in a few times a day to check on things and take puppy out, and change the pad, etc.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

I think at this stage I am going to buy a large crate and as mentioned above leave a pad for the dog to go toilet on. I will try and organise someone to come past once a day on the days when we are not home.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

steven said:


> Another question - people keep their full grown GSD's crated for 8 hours when they are away?? To me that just seems cruel, leaving the dog in the cage. Surely a fully grown GSD would be more happy with the freedom to roam the backyard, play with its toys etc?


My full-grown GSD and my 9-month old GSD have free roam of the living room, kitchen, hall, and dining room while I'm away. _Most_ GSDs get to a point where they can have free roam of the house. I personally would not ever leave a dog unattended in the yard. Too much can happen. 

Aside from chewing on bones, they don't play with their toys unless I'm engaging them to play with their toys. They don't ever just pick up a toy and start playing on their own. Other peoples' dogs might, but mine never have. 

I'm at home most of the day and my dogs sleep on the couch basically all day. This idea that they have to be constantly entertained and stimulated is anthropomorphizing.



steven said:


> I think at this stage I am going to buy a large crate and as mentioned above leave a pad for the dog to go toilet on.


Just know that there are many instances of them shredding and ingesting the pad. :thumbup:


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## Sunstreaked (Oct 26, 2010)

steven said:


> Thanks for the advice - can you recommend any good sources of crate training, house breaking info?
> 
> Another question - people keep their full grown GSD's crated for 8 hours when they are away?? To me that just seems cruel, leaving the dog in the cage. Surely a fully grown GSD would be more happy with the freedom to roam the backyard, play with its toys etc?



You're thinking of this like a person, not a dog. The crate is to keep the dog safe - from chemicals, choking hazards, etc. 

Our pup is one year. She is crated every time we leave the house - even if it is for 15 minutes to run to the store. The crate will remain a part of her routine for her entire life. She also loves it. Goes into it whenever she wants, lies in there on her own, doesn't like the door shut when she's not in there. 

Depending on where you live, there could be poisonous critters in your yard. We have poisonous toads here. I would never leave my dog outside for even a minute by herself because she thinks chasing these toads is fun.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

There's a potty pad holder that can help prevent that - of course nothing is 100% preventable and I've even heard of dogs breaking out of crates partway and choking to death.
You can make yourself crazy with all the "what ifs" and ultimately choose what works for your own situation and your own dog(s).


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

steven said:


> Thanks for the advice - can you recommend any good sources of crate training, house breaking info?


I disagree with him on some other things, but Cesar Milan's book _How to Raise the Perfect dog. . . Through Puppyhood and Beyond_ has very good information on housebreaking and crate training.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Most of my dogs have not been not crated while I'm gone but some had to be crated (before they could be trusted to be out on their own) and some felt more secure in a crate. 

Most of my dogs have been very active, especially when they were younger and definitely entertained themselves with bones, balls and stuffed toys (usually unstuffing them). 

I think we have different habits and expectations of dogs in different countries. In this country it can be dangerous to leave your dog out alone (because people sometimes steal them, believe it or not) and it certainly not wise to leave a young puppy outside alone because there are too many things they can get into. 

This is my favorite puppy primer book: Welcome to Dogwise.com


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

steven said:


> Surely a fully grown GSD would be more happy with the freedom to roam the backyard, play with its toys etc?


Not really. I don't know any dogs who find it fun to sit alone in the same backyard for 8 hours at a time... It's boring, especially with a smart dog like a GSD or a young active dog... Bored dogs will find ways to entertain themselves which are often not things you will like-- such as digging holes, barking, tearing things up, climbing the fence or digging out underneath, or even pulling the siding off the house or garage (my neighbor's dog did this.) 

As far as crate vs. laundry room or backyard, it depends on how housebroken you want your puppy to be. If you let the puppy loose in a laundry room they will learn to use the bathroom indoors, and leaving them outdoors for a lot of the time also does not help with housebreaking.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Leaving a dog alone in the backyard is probably just as boring to the dog as being in a crate. 

Think about it... what exactly do you expect them to do out there all alone for hours on end? Run in circles? Stare at the birds that fly by in the sky? 

At least in a crate, they're safe.


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> Leaving a dog alone in the backyard is probably just as boring to the dog as being in a crate.
> 
> Think about it... what exactly do you expect them to do out there all alone for hours on end? Run in circles? Stare at the birds that fly by in the sky?
> 
> At least in a crate, they're safe.


Thanks for that you make a valid point. So I assume they will have no choice but to sleep all day in the crate?

Also if we can only get someone there once a day there is a good chance that 90% of the days when she is in the crate for around 8 hours (around 3 - 4 days a week) she will have to go to the toilet in the crate, I guess this is unavoidable but the best thing to do is when we get home take her outside and praise her if she goes toilet out there?
I guess there will be plenty of puppy washing/crate cleaning, lets just hope she doesn't play with her poo poo :blush:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I work full time 6:00am-2:30pm monday-friday.

My 2.5 year old male stays home by himself, he is free in the house.

I drop my 13 week old female off at my ex's house every morning before work, so he spends the day with her until I pick her up after work.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

steven said:


> Thanks for that you make a valid point. So I assume they will have no choice but to sleep all day in the crate?
> 
> Also if we can only get someone there once a day there is a good chance that 90% of the days when she is in the crate for around 8 hours (around 3 - 4 days a week) she will have to go to the toilet in the crate, I guess this is unavoidable but the best thing to do is when we get home take her outside and praise her if she goes toilet out there?
> I guess there will be plenty of puppy washing/crate cleaning, lets just hope she doesn't play with her poo poo :blush:


 
Noooooooo

She needs to be able to get out during that time and you need to figure out a way to make it happen. If she learns to regularly go in her crate you are going to have a LIFETIME of trouble.

Hmmmmmmmm do you have a garage? I once could not make arrangements and set up a secure dog pen in the garage (the conditions were acceptable at the time and should be this time of year) so the pup could learn to go on concrete and had access to her crate which was placed inside the dog pen. Even in a good neighborhood an outside puppy is too tempting to take

It was not ideal but at least I did not have a dog laying in pee and poo. But really - is there no way you can make arrangements for someone every few hours?


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

8 weeks has high demands. I got my girl at 11 weeks. We left our girl in our bathroom (With everything cleared) and she still managed to do some damage. I didn't have any experience with dogs. I didn't get a crate. 2 days later, I got a crate. Best thing ever.

If you're getting the dog from a reputable breeder, most likely, the pup would be somewhat house trained already. the 8-6 or 9-5 work schedule would be very difficult for the pup. I work close to home so I come home for lunch. Worked out great. We took her home on Friday as well so we got the whole weekend to spend with her and get her comfortable in her new home.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

The whole deal with crate training is that it takes advantage of a dog's natural desire to keep its den clean. Even at 8 weeks, she doesn't want to potty where she sleeps, so she learns to hold it until she goes outside. However, if she is forced to potty in the crate because of being left in there too long, she will start to overcome her natural desires for a clean den,and get used to sleeping in filth. Then you will have a whole world of trouble with housebreaking because you have a dog that's not bothered by pooping where it sleeps. 

If you have absolutely no choice but to leave your puppy unattended for 8 hours straight, I would strongly suggest getting a 12 or 14 week old puppy.



It always amuses me when people say, "I'll just leave her in the bathroom or laundry room where she can't hurt anything. . . ." and then they're on here 2 weeks later complaining about how the dog ate the cabinets and drywall. Never underestimate the destructive power of a puppy.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> If you have absolutely no choice but to leave your puppy unattended for 8 hours straight, I would strongly suggest getting a 12 or 14 week old puppy.


I couldn't agree more. 

Older pups are better IMO.


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

steven said:


> Thanks for that you make a valid point. So I assume they will have no choice but to sleep all day in the crate?
> 
> Also if we can only get someone there once a day there is a good chance that 90% of the days when she is in the crate for around 8 hours (around 3 - 4 days a week) she will have to go to the toilet in the crate, I guess this is unavoidable but the best thing to do is when we get home take her outside and praise her if she goes toilet out there?
> I guess there will be plenty of puppy washing/crate cleaning, lets just hope she doesn't play with her poo poo :blush:


It's not that she will have no choice but to sleep all day. She would be sleeping while you're gone no matter what, it's just a matter of whether she's sleeping in a crate or sleeping somewhere else. My dog sleeps on the lounge chair by the window the entire 8 hours that I'm at work. I know this for a fact because even if there is someone else home, like my roommate or a visitor, while I'm gone, he still prefers to sleep by the window waiting for me, rather than engaging the person who is home. He doesn't play with his toys, chew on his bones, walk around the house, heck he won't even eat treats or food when I'm gone. He's just rooted to the window waiting for me to get back.

If you are gone for 8 hours a day, and you have someone come in halfway, then 4 hours in a crate is not that bad. But I'm in the boat of you should go with either an older puppy or an adult. If you're worried about bonding, there's not a huge difference between an 8 week old puppy and say a 16 week old puppy. In fact, I would say the dogs that bond with you the strongest and fastest are adult rescues.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It would be very inappropriate to get an 8 week old puppy and stuff her in a crate so small she could barely turn around, then expect her to keep it clean for 8 hours.
The rule of thumb is 1hr. per month of age, so the most you could do at this point would be 2 hrs. max and that's with her _sleeping_, not for hours on end.

If you are getting the 8 week old puppy I'd still put her in a large enough crate where she could potty at the one end of the crate and sleep/eat at the other and have room to play. At some point when she's older you then reduce the size, take out the potty pad and that's that. Since there's no pee pad (which are scented to attract puppies to "go" there) she would not feel inclined to potty in the crate. 

At 8 weeks they've just learned to stay out of the poo. Until that age, they often stomp and play in it. 
If you were to leave her in a small enough space she did not feel comfortable "going" where she sleeps - at 8weeks and 8hrs alone - she may wind up eating her feces to keep her area cleaner.

An x-pen set up with the potty pad would do the same but of course an x-pen setting so she isn't "going" where she sleeps, that is, in the crate. We've done this in our rescue and simply use a top on the x-pen so the puppy cannot jump out and hurt itself. But then again we're usually not gone 8hrs. at a time. But with this type set up, it would be relatively safe for 8hrs.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

If you can't find a way to get home multiple times those first couple months than a puppy just isn't right for you right now. You really need to find a way to get home during that work week. It's not a permanent thing, but at least for the first few months.

Speak to your boss and see if you can take extra breaks at first. You're going to have to find a way to make this happen, but leaving an 8 week old puppy alone for 8 hours a day with no bathroom breaks in unacceptable. 

Allowing the pup to knowingly pee in the crate where it sleeps is even worse and kind of disgusting. You know he's just going to have to lay down it for for hours after he goes. Would you want to sit in your own urine for hours everyday?



msvette2u said:


> It would be very inappropriate to get an 8 week old puppy and stuff her in a crate so small she could barely turn around, then expect her to keep it clean for 8 hours.


That is the entire reason for the crate as a tool for housebreaking. The problem here is the OP needs to find a way home if he's going to bring in a puppy. What you suggested is just counterproductive and is teaching the puppy it's ok to pee in the crate.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> What you suggested is just counterproductive and is teaching the puppy it's ok to pee in the crate.


And that will be a complete nightmare and difficult to break.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> Allowing the pup to knowingly pee in the crate where it sleeps is even worse and kind of disgusting. You know he's just going to have to lay down it for for hours after he goes. Would you want to sit in your own urine for hours everyday?


Not to mention you would be creating even more work for yourself because you will need to bathe the puppy everyday when you get home and it is not good to give that many baths.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

People work, it's not the end of the world.

If you have to leave the pup for 8 hour stretches, I would do the laundry room so the pup has room to soil one area and keep itself clean. I believe you said that was a safe option, tile floor? I would not use a crate for that long because the pup *is going* to soil in it. Unless you use a large crate. I've done that a few times I've had to be away for too long. I always use some kind of bedding to absorb the urine, so even if my pup soils I've never come home to a puppy that was soaking in urine and needed a bath. Not ideal but it did not scar my puppy for life nor did it cause problems crate training and house training.

If you use your laundry room, you might want to consider also using an x-pen. Some pups are more mischievous than others and might try to chew on the walls, baseboard, door. A tile floor area is perfect and if you use an x-pen inside that area it will be the most safe. Like I said I left some bedding like old towels but you will want to monitor your pup that first week you are home, some want to eat bedding and may not be able to have it even though it is ideal for soaking up any soiling.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

A word of caution regarding allowing a puppy to stay loose in a laundry room. Several years ago my mother (a GSD breeder) sold a puppy to a young couple. No matter how hard she tried to convince them that crating was not cruel, they would not agree to give it a try. They chose to leave their young puppy (9 or 10 weeks old) in the laundry room while they worked. They came home to an electrocuted/dead puppy because it had crawled behind the dryer and chewed the electrical cord.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

i would never ever ever ever leave my dog outside at any age. even if i lived in the middle of "nowhere".


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Of course I had a $700 trip to the e-vet because of old towels. These puppies can be absolutely crazy in what they eat or destroy. I guess it was more interesting than the peanut butter stuffed kong.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Which is why you start with a crate that's large - with a potty pad at one end, and the sleep/eat area at the other.
Once the dog is older the crate size is reduced and the pad is gone, they usually understand not to "go" where they have been sleeping. 
While not "ideal", it beats letting the puppy run all over the house during the day. 
Which is why I also said an ex-pen may be preferable so that you aren't associating the crate at all with going potty.
I'd choose, in this situation, the following set ups in this order:
1.Ex-pen with the potty pad somewhere away from the "eat/sleep" area;
2.x-large crate so you create a little puppy atmosphere, pee pad at one end, a dish for food/water at the other;
3.large kennel run in a "safe" place like a garage;
4.loose in a large "safe" room such as mud room or laundry room.




Lucy Dog said:


> If you can't find a way to get home multiple times those first couple months than a puppy just isn't right for you right now. You really need to find a way to get home during that work week. It's not a permanent thing, but at least for the first few months.
> 
> Speak to your boss and see if you can take extra breaks at first. You're going to have to find a way to make this happen, but leaving an 8 week old puppy alone for 8 hours a day with no bathroom breaks in unacceptable.
> 
> ...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

msvette2u said:


> I'd choose, in this situation, the following set ups in this order:
> 1.Ex-pen with the potty pad somewhere away from the "eat/sleep" area;
> 2.x-large crate so you create a little puppy atmosphere, pee pad at one end, a dish for food/water at the other;
> 3.large kennel run in a "safe" place like a garage;
> 4.loose in a large "safe" room such as mud room or laundry room.


I agree!

I disagree that if the OP *has* to use a large crate or pen, it will teach the puppy to soil in the crate. I mean, babies wear diapers for 2-3 years and end up potty-trained, no? Sometimes I feel I expect more of my dogs than kids, lol! For me it's more a matter of training the dog to potty in one area and eat/sleep/play in another. If you've got a huge crate or ex-pen and a small puppy, you can accomplish that without your dog ending up with bad habits and urine soaked.

Also to the OP....is it possible to take half days for two weeks instead of one whole week off? Or maybe even take one day a week off for a few weeks, cutting down on the number of days the dog would have been left for 8 hours? I may be in the minority but I've never taken a whole week off. I'd rather have my boss/employer be a bit more lax with my break times or let me go a half hour early sometimes. Plus, having me around all day is not normal and I want my pup to become established with our normal daily routine as soon as possible, not get used to having me around 24/7 for an entire week. I don't think it's a *bad* idea to take time off, but if possible it might be a better idea to spread that out more.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

With our first dog, who we got as a pup, we built a kennel in the basement that was probably 4x8. Emmie would be down there all day when we were at work and at night and she could do her business at the other end of the kennel from where she slept. As she got older and could hold out, then we knew she was ready for having the run of the basement and eventually the whole house. That was when we dismantled the kennel altogether.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I like the idea of an expen with top, crate inside, pee pads on one end (although I despise pee pads.) I think the top is necessary if you have a crate in there, because soon enough the pup will get on top of the crate and jump to freedom.... and go on to find the power cord, detergent, bleach! and any other thing that could hurt or even kill him.

The poster that said you are thinking about the crate as a human would and not a dog, was spot-on, imho. Do a google on "denning instinct." Here's one short article: Denning is a Natural Instinct in Dogs

For example... every night I tell my pup "bedtime!" and he immediately runs to the bedroom and goes under the bed. My bed is against a wall on the side and front and there are plastic storage bins at the base and wall side, so there's probably only a 3 X 3 ft ? area under there. Maybe smaller. He has very little headroom. HE LOVES IT. Now would you or I want to sleep THERE? Heck NO! But it is, to him, a nearly perfect "den" re-creation. Smallish, safe, protected and enclosed. Sometime after I've fallen asleep, he moves to the half-full laundry baset. (Poor woman's doggy bed for now ) When he was younger, I had the "starter" crate that I would move from bedroom to dining room every day... but he outgrew that into a larger crate. I cannot move that large crate to the bedroom at night, so he found a replacement -- under the bed. Just do some googling on crating, you'll find a treasure trove. 

You never said (or I didn't see) that it was not possible to find someone or hire someone to let him out? Is this just not an option? 

So here's my list:

1.) Get an older dog.
2.) If heart is set on the 8 week old, crate train and get someone to let him out on the long days.
3.) If #1 is a no-go and #2 is a no-go, go with the expen with top, crate inside the pen.
4.) The outside option is not an option.

Additionally, if you go with the young pup and take that week off, use it to condition him to what's coming. Ie, don't spend all day every day with him, just for Monday to roll around and BOOM, pup is alone 8 solid hours. Read up on crate training and start asap. Put him in the laundry room set-up while you are there and close by, tinkering around the house, where he can hear you and better yet, see you for short periods. Make those periods longer. Then go back to short periods and make him believe you left the house. Make no fanfare, just put him in, I love you, bye. Shut the door and sit there... he will likely freak out. See how long he freaks out before he finally quiets. It could be awhile! DO NOT go "rescue" him. I think doing this gives you some indication as to his distress and readiness to deal with it. Then pretend you're back home, open and close the door, make some fuss around the house, no big deal, here I am... walk by the laundry room, say hi, go do something you need to do... etc... By the end of the seven days, the periods of you being gone need to be nearly at where he is going to be left alone once you're back to work. 

If you did your work with the crate training, the pup will find that crate to be a great source of comfort when he's alone. It is NOT punishment -- it will be his refuge!


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## steven (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks for the replies everyone - greatly appreciated.

I think due to the fact that we couldn't "always" have someone let her out of the crate every few hours the garage or laundry is going to be the best options. I will buy a large gated "pen" and allow her to stay in there having her food/water/toys at one end, and pee pads at the other end. 

I think this is a better option then her possible lying in her own urine/poo.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

steven said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone - greatly appreciated.
> 
> I think due to the fact that we couldn't "always" have someone let her out of the crate every few hours the garage or laundry is going to be the best options. I will buy a large gated "pen" and allow her to stay in there having her food/water/toys at one end, and pee pads at the other end.
> 
> I think this is a better option then her possible lying in her own urine/poo.


 
I would get a small plastic swinning pool and fill it with shavings, it absorbs the odor well and is easy to clean, you don't have to worry about chewing up and swallowing the pee pads, also a big benefit is you can train your puppy to relieve themself in a specific spot by placing the pool there as well, puppies and dogs like to use the shavings, I have always done this with no problems and you simply pick out the poop and wet spots with a little litter rake.


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## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

Also see if you both can adjust your schedules for work. If you both go in at 9, one of you could switch to 6 so you could be home three hours earlier.

Thankfully my gf worked two miles away when we and Koch as a puppy, so she stopped by during lunch for a walk and bathroom.


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## S19977 (Feb 19, 2011)

Liesje said:


> People work, it's not the end of the world.


Exactly. It seems lot of people on this forum either work from home or at stay-at-homes. Which is fine, but not everyone can be home full time with their dog.

To the OP, I would take a few days off from work when you bring her home. Then make the effort to come home at lunch everyday. At least for the first month.


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