# Rabies and other vaccinations



## monster (Aug 16, 2015)

I took my dogs to the vet today, Ton for his 16 week appointment and Girl for her "annual checkup" which was probably overdue. I've not been good at taking my dogs in just because of the date, I've always waited until something needed fixing. As a former medic I know all about preventative care, yet just like with my own care I like to avoid going to the doctor. Anyways, something has changed with my vet's office, I think there's new blood in charge of the business aspects. In the past they weren't as quick to push costly care as quickly as they are now. At my young guy's first visit a month ago I got suckered in to this puppy package that's supposed to cover everything he needs for $220. When I agreed to the package I was at the end of a stretch of a few days without sleep and couldn't think quickly enough. Other options have been offered as well, all always much more than what I'm currently doing, for example suggesting switching flea treatments from a one month type to a three month type that costs more than three times the amount of the one month. Today, they insisted after I put up a bit of a fuss with vaccinating Girl with some of the same vaccinations she had as a pup. I was told these are yearly. I get why kennel cough would be an annual, but a few of the others I seem to remember with other dogs I've had the vaccinations were one-timers. The kicker was they said if I was to continue getting care there my new guy would have to have his rabies by six months of age. That's another one I remember holding off until at least 1 year of age with Girl. Look, I get I'm probably over-protective, but it surely seems like there is a more concerted effort to pump things into our dogs. So am I wrong, is this the standard of care nowadays? I know with children there's been a dust-up over vaccinations, is this carry-over from that? Or again, am I just being over-protective?


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

I have my boy titered for parvo and distemper. Waiting a year before giving the first Rabis vaccine may be putting your dog at risk and in conflict with your state laws if a bite or scratch happens and is reported.

Do some research concerning titer tests. It is more expensive but worth it imho. My vet and I had a bit of a conversation when I first requested it.


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## monster (Aug 16, 2015)

Your point was made by the vet this morning. She described the potential situation if a bite were to happen and what the remedy is, but I'm still torn. My initial thought is I keep my dogs under a very close eye, I train them, and they both have good, sweet temperaments. Knock on wood for the young guy, but so far he seems to have the potential to be sweet. But I have taken Girl with me everywhere and plan to do the same with Ton, so the potential is there. I did the math and I didn't wait a whole year+ as I thought I did with Girl, she was about 9 months when I had her rabies done, so I'll probably concede this one, but still make sure I spread out the date some from her last shot.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Four to six months old is pretty typical for the first rabies vaccination, a couple of weeks from any other vaccines. I would personally not wait a year, it's not worth the risk. 

Here is Dr. Dodd's recommended vaccination schedule, which is more conservative that many veterinarians: http://www.hemopet.org/clients/1414...Sharing/VaccineSchedule_Dogs_2016_Updated.pdf


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

3 of mine vax'd @6 months for rabies. Ollie our youngest pup, had his rabies done at 4 months. Bats are common carriers and we have lots of them in WA or maybe it just seems like it. Every place I've hiked and camped around the state I've seen them buzzing over head feeding off the bugs drawn to our lighting. Rabies is rare, but there are no second chances.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I think most states require rabies vacs by 6 months unless there is a vet waiver for health reasons. Senior dogs near end of life I have seen. I got one for a previous dog that was due for a rabies vacs. She was near end of life and the vet agreed it wasn't in the dogs best interest and also not at much risk.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your vet might be part of the VCA network. If so, yes they will push to over vaccinate. Push back. That said you already paid for the vacs as part of the puppy package. Did they tell you you would get a significant (50%) discount on spay/neuter as part of the package? If they did read the fine print. 

I got a puppy package and regretted it. There always seemed to be some additional charge that wasn't covered. Then there was the spay issue. I had told my vet I didn't plan to spay until after a first heat or over one year of age at the earliest. I was told (didn't get in writing) that it wouldn't be an issue with the package. Well that wasn't true. At 19 months when my girl still hadn't had a heat we decided to spay. Thinking it was going to be discounted I was stunned at the over $300 estimate I had to sign before the procedure was booked. I balked and asked for an explanation. Short of it...the puppy package *requires* spay/neuter at 6 months of age. Since I waited (vet even agreed with my reasoning for the wait) I gave up my discounted rate. Given a long explanation how it's a more complicated surgery on an adult than a puppy. I didn't ague that point but expressed my displeasure with the appearance of deceit. They gave me the discount initially. When I go to pay the final bill after the surgery the price was jacked up again. Reason: extended anesthesia, additional OR time, complications. The fact was there were complications so I couldn't argue additional charges. In the end they got a good chunk of change out of me. 

I love my most of the vets at the VCA hospital I go to. Been going to them since before they joined VCA. But since joining their fees have gone way up. 

Sorry for the novel. Just know if you're dealing with a VCA vet they are corporately pressured to push for higher billable services. Vet might be great but you will have to advocate for your pet more proactively or find a different vet.

Also: personal choice but for many reasons it's not advised spay/neuter before growth plates have closed which is way after 6 months


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi monster,

Personally, I'd find a Holistic Vet who would be more in line of your views.
I can give you a list for your state if you wish.

Dr. Dodds Vaccination Protocol (that Cassidy's Mom mentioned) is a perfect one to follow. Vaccination "Cocktail's" or Multiple vac's at one time may not bother one dog, but could be a lifetime of health issues for another. 

You could use a Homeopathic Remedy to combat the effects of the vaccines. It's used: "Immediately after vaccination - and continue as above, twice per day for 2 days": https://market.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/collections/anti-vaccinosis/products/anti-vaccinosis 

The vets statement of repeating vaccinations yearly????? :angryfire:
Titer your older dog before agreeing to yearly vaccination. I'd find another vet if this clinic poo-poo's titers or won't do it.

Dr. Ron Schultz's (Vaccine Research) study results:
*Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines:*
Distemper- 7 years by challenge/15 years by serology
Parvovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology
Adenovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 9 years by serology
Canine rabies – 3 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology
Dr. Schultz concludes: “Vaccines for diseases like distemper and canine parvovirus, once administered to adult animals, provide lifetime immunity.” 
Lifelong Immunity - Why Vets Are Pushing Back - Dogs Naturally Magazine 


As Springbrz said....YOU are your dogs advocate. 

Here are some good reading materials about vaccinations.
Frequently Asked Questions about Titers and Vaccination Protocol
Dr. Ron Schultz on Lyme Vaccine
Dr. Ron Schultz on Leptospirosis Vaccines
Kennel Cough Complex Vaccines
Infectious Canine Hepatitis
Canine Influenza (H3N8)
Vaccinations: A Global Perspective
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/
http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2011/12/17/why-vets-dont-recognize-vaccine-reactions/#more-1346
Puppy and Kitten Vaccinations: Timing is critical
Rabies: The Science & the Current Law
Vaccines: When too much of a good thing turns bad
Vaccines: When too much of a good thing turns bad (Part 2)
Avoid Unnecessary Vaccines with Titer Tests (Part 3)
Response: Immune-Mediated Thrombocytopenia Report and Article
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: Is the puppy’s severe physical reaction due to a routine vaccine?
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: What should I do to protect my adult dogs during a parvovirus outbreak?
To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate for Infectious Canine Hepatitis?
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: I had a dog who had a bad reaction to the rabies vaccine and now I am concerned about giving it to my other dogs. What should I do?
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: Kennel Cough Complex Vaccines
Yes or No to Snake Vaccines?
Canine Influenza H3N8 Article - Dr. Dodds’ Additions
Clinical Approaches to Managing and Treating Adverse Vaccine Reactions
Dr. Schultz on Lyme Vaccine
Dr. Schultz Update on Leptospirosis Vaccines (2012)
More on Vaccine Titer Testing
Q&A with Dr. Dodds: Newborns and immunity from mothers
Mercury-Induced Inflammation: Yet Another Example of ASIA Syndrome
Canine Non-Core Vaccines
Snapshot of Leptospirosis Strains and Vaccines
Puppy Vaccination Schedule and Socialization: Can they go together?
Kennel Cough Complex: A complicated phrase for the canine common cold
A Pilot Study: Dose Vaccines for Small Dogs
More on Vaccinations & Small Dog Vaccine Study
Canine Influenza H3N2 Outbreak
Immune Disorders and Vaccines
Know Your Bordetella Vaccine
Vaccinations and How They Disrupt the Immune System
5th Annual Joint American Homeopathic Conference - Poster Session 2010
Leptospirosis Vaccines Adverse Reaction
How vaccines dysregulate the immune system and impact genetic control over disease expression


Moms


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

@moms,

Thanks so very much for providing that list of informative links! I, for one, really appreciate it. Two quick questions. First, could you suggest one/two sites with parallel information for cats? (I saw that many of the links speak to both species, but many/most do not). Second, and I really hate to make this request (yet another instance of "No good deed goes unpunished"), but the four links, shown below, all take you to the same page. Could you point me in the right direction for those papers?

_Vaccinations and How They Disrupt the Immune System
5th Annual Joint American Homeopathic Conference - Poster Session 2010
Leptospirosis Vaccines Adverse Reaction
How vaccines dysregulate the immune system and impact genetic control over disease expression_

Thanks again for the valuable info.

Aly


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## pashana (Nov 18, 2015)

My dog get first vaccinations at the age of 7 weeks, parvo etc, cause he came from other country. Next he got vaccinations at The age of 16 weeks etc. Dunno how it goes on other countries, here IT is normal to get them on the age of 16 weeks.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Documents/Rabies state law chart.pdf

I was a vet tech before I was a human nurse. I vaccinated my own dog for all the puppy series myself with vaccines from Tractor Supply Company, a nationwide chain. I also do my own heartworm preventative made with 1% Ivermectin diluted with glycerine. There are several strengths you can make, look it up. Some dogs such as some sighthounds and GSDs, are very sensitive to Ivermectin, look up ivermectin sensitivity. As for flea preventative, I used the pour on once a month from the store until fleas became extinct on this hill. Whenever fleas reappear I do this again. With rabies, however, you really have to play by the rules, sorry. I am not promoting owner veterinary care, just saying what I did due to vet tech experience.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

NB, please be careful with this advice on an Internet forum where many people reading don't have your education or skill set. I've personally seen the effects of Ivermectin overdosing by owners who read online that they could buy cattle Ivomec and dose the dog with it -- measuring in cc's not drops, without dilution. One lovely bicolored GSD I met was blinded and permanently neurologically damaged by his owner's mistake. He couldn't be saved. According to a vet I know who looked at what her clients were relying on, some of the Internet sites that claim to offer suggested dosing are actually dosing for dogs at 2,000 to 10,000 times the appropriate rate for HW prevention!

Many people are not good at chemistry calculations, much less at the math required to get this right. The risk of overdose is a ruined dog, likely needing to be euthanized. At shelters, I've seen vets and techs measuring dog doses in drops out of a syringe into a pill pocket AFTER already diluting -- they first calculate the dilution rate then they calculate proper dosing per kg of body weight. The amount is incredibly small, and it requires a careful and accurate calculation to do safely.

NO ONE should try this 1% Ivermectin idea based on Internet advice. If anyone is tempted to do it, *see if your vet will do the calculation for you* (and teach you proper dilution). 

Very low-dose, generic ivermectin-based HW meds that are pre-measured are available at the Wal-Mart Pharmacy for $5 month ($30/pack), with your vets RX. No measuring or diluting required!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Yes I realize this is scary. Let the vet dilute it for you or get the Walmart script.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

monster, here is a link with info for Washington Rabis law. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/4300/ZD-RabiesCompendium2008.pdf

Check ou pg 10 & 11 for manufacturers info.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Aly said:


> @*mom*s,
> 
> Thanks so very much for providing that list of informative links! I, for one, really appreciate it. Two quick questions. First, could you suggest one/two sites with parallel information for cats? (I saw that many of the links speak to both species, but many/most do not). Second, and I really hate to make this request (yet another instance of "No good deed goes unpunished"), but the four links, shown below, all take you to the same page. Could you point me in the right direction for those papers?
> 
> ...




Dr. Dodds Vaccination Protocol for Cats: https://drjeandoddspethealthresourc...t-vaccination-protocol-2013-2014#.WjHd_DdryK8 


https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...hink-twice-about-feline-leukemia-vaccine.aspx 


Here is more of Dr. Patricia Jordan’s free info: Free Information 
Leptomania by Dr. Patricia Jordan 


She wrote the book “Vaccinosis – The Mark Of the Beast” E-Book available here: Downloads 

_Vaccinations and How They Disrupt the Immune System _https://thewholedog.com/vaccinations-and-how-they-disrupt-the-immune-system/ 

_5th Annual Joint American Homeopathic Conference - Poster Session 2010 _ _How vaccines dysregulate the immune system and impact genetic control over disease expression: _http://dr-jordan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Combined_material_poster_first_than_paper.pdf

_Leptospirosis Vaccines Adverse Reaction http://www.petwelfarealliance.org/u...5/leptospirosis_vaccine_adverse_reactions.pdf _



Moms


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## monster (Aug 16, 2015)

Springbrz, I honestly couldn't say what's part of the puppy package, I was delirious from lack of sleep that they could've sold me whole life insurance for the dog and I probably would have signed. Even so, I wouldn't have listened much to any talk of neutering our new guy. He's going to be huge and I've gone through what happens when a big dog gets neutered too young. So I'm waiting till at least 1 1/2 to probably 2 years old before that happens. I'm just trying to decide if I keep our female intact and just be diligent when she's in heat around the young buck. I'm in 100% agreement with you about the growth plates. This new guy is much taller with long looking legs right now, so I really want to make sure he stays athletic. He was nearly 43 lbs. yesterday and he's 16 weeks old today. I lost the graph I had of Girl when she was a pup, but I'm sure he's gonna blow her away in size. I'm having second thoughts of taking a larger Shepherd, he eats and craps like two dogs.


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## monster (Aug 16, 2015)

Momto2GSDs, thank you so much for all that info. You're probably right that I'd be better off going with a holistic vet. It's funny, for myself I could care less about what I eat and the rest, but for my animals I want to ensure I do what's best. For so long I looked at our dogs as pets but the older I get they seemed to become closer than some family members.


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## monster (Aug 16, 2015)

Nurse Bishop, when I read your post I was nodding yes the whole time because I was coming from a similar background. I guess in my case though it was more of a case of just enough knowledge to be dangerous. I too have given Ivermectin to dogs, followed the dosing which I knew how to do and never thought twice. But then I read a few posts later where I know now I shouldn't have messed with that myself. The vaccinations sure, but I should have left the rest to the docs. As a matter of fact I'll be tossing the bottle I have in the dog fridge.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

@Momto2GSDs

You *ROCK*!! Thank you SO much for the informative links. 



Aly


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I titered for Distemper Parvo when my girl was young after she had had all of her core shots for the first year. She had good immunity. I did not do it again until I adopted an adult male GSD who I suddenly discovered had a penchant for hunting raccoons AND there was a distemper outbreak in the raccoon population where we lived, so you better believe I hustled them both in for a distemper shot.

I have never messed with Rabies-- it's a legal issue and with service dogs and dogs who are out doing a lot...not risking it, mine are always utd on Rabies with proof from vet. 

I just titered the boy for distemper, parvo and lepto, all of which he was due for. He is 2.5 now and this would have been a yearly distemper/parvo but his titers came back strong so not doing it. Lepto was weak, so I may do it now or wait till spring, not 100%. He has to finish recovering from surgery.

I would never wait until one year old to get a dog their first rabies, if anything happens you are in for it.

I don't know what my recent thread was called but we discussed titering, ect...will try to find it...


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I have a problem with the tremendous cost of veterinary care these days. It seems almost as expensive as human care and most people don't have medical insurance. I used to have a lot of pet chickens. I took them to a country vet and he would charge about $5 for an office visit. Because it was a farm animal. Parrots and exotic birds he charged a lot more for them, hundreds. Well, he retired and I had to take chickens to city vets. They charged 100s of $ for a chicken. Now, its even more money. The cost people are paying for veterinary care just blows me away. Of course, now they want to do MRIs on dogs and all that.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Nurse Bishop said:


> I have a problem with the tremendous cost of veterinary care these days. It seems almost as expensive as human care and most people don't have medical insurance. I used to have a lot of pet chickens. I took them to a country vet and he would charge about $5 for an office visit. Because it was a farm animal. Parrots and exotic birds he charged a lot more for them, hundreds. Well, he retired and I had to take chickens to city vets. They charged 100s of $ for a chicken. Now, its even more money. The cost people are paying for veterinary care just blows me away. Of course, now they want to do MRIs on dogs and all that.


I paid around 3000 for my old male to have a CT scan to find out if his tumor was operable or not after the ultra sound vet said she did not think it was. The specialists at the hospital were willing to try but after seeing the CT they were also able to tell us how bad the tumor was and how risky a surgery. We chose not to do it, but I am not sorry we paid that and got to talk to them in such detail about everything the tumor was attached to or had grown through.

I spent another 3000 on my girl's endoscopy and after her treatment at that hospital she is symptom free and having a great retirement where she gets to enjoy her life.

To each their own. I have a savings account for the dogs and a credit card besides that which I will use if the savings account comes up short. It took me like 6 months to pay off my little foster dog's week of hospitalization...

I feel I need to provide my dogs with a certain level of care so I do. In my girl's 11 year life she has had 3 whoppers...the allergy testing SIBO tx when she was younger which totalled less than a grand. A tooth extraction that might have been way over priced at 1200 when she was 8, and her big trip to the hospital for the endoscopy at age 10

For her especially, she spent her whole life serving me selflessly how could I not give her anything she needs.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Both our pups had ONE parvo vacc at 12 weeks old and ONE distemper vacc at 16 weeks old (Holistic Vet in agreement). They are now 9 1/2 years old and 11 years old and have never had another one! 
So, in our case, Dr. Schultz's Duration Of Immunity by Challange/Stereology rings true. 
The only other vaccination they get is Rabies every 3 years along with the Homeopathic Remedy I mentioned.

*Note* that this may be different for other dog's so *titering* *is important*.

My dogs are titered every year to be sure they have sufficient antibodies for parvo and distemper, as we live in the country on wooded acreage and the dogs travel with us to different states (north to south) during the year.

Moms


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Lepto only provides maximum protection for about 6 months before it starts to decline. I wouldn't expect any protection after a year. We do the Lepto-4 vax annually, unless there's a flood or hurricane in our region, then we booster early if we're over 6 months (Lepto cases tend to explode after floods/hurricanes -- PR is going through this right now, unfortunately). We're in a lepto hot spot with LOTS of clinical cases in dogs, and we have lots of wildlife around us that are known to carry it. There are other places where clinics may never see a case of it, so it might not be needed _at all _there. Lepto is one where having a GOOD vet you can trust makes all the difference in recommending a locally tailored protocol. 

As for vet pricing, I think there's two different things driving the increasing cost of care. One is technology -- cutting edge diagnostics, complex surgical procedures, and medicines migrate from human care to vet care, and they're expensive. We also have access to more board-certified specialties than ever before. That doesn't explain why basic office visits have gone up so much at many typical suburban clinics -- a visit that was once $25 may be $50 now, if you're old enough to remember. That's probably being driven by something else: student debt to finance veterinary education.

Young vets typically come out of vet school with $100,000 to $200,000 of student loan debt now. The average educational debt load for the veterinary Class of 2016 in the U.S. was over $143,000. On a 30 year repayment plan, that takes nearly $1,000 per month to service that! Even public universities require this level of debt in many cases (example: several state universities charge in the neighborhood of $30,000 for IN-STATE residents to attend vet school; double that for non-residents -- PER YEAR, and it takes four years to get a DVM degree).

Those farm vets you remember went through vet school in an era when they left it without debt, if they went to a state land grant university in the U.S. A part time job during the summer would cover the few hundred bucks a semester that tuition cost back then. Alas, that educational era is gone. The public pays the piper with higher vet bills (and dental bills--new dental grads are in the same boat). The cost of education has to be paid for somehow, and if it's done through private financing, then the repayment has to come from those using the service, which means higher fees for basic things.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Dr. Dodds Vaccination Protocol for Cats: https://drjeandoddspethealthresourc...t-vaccination-protocol-2013-2014#.WjHd_DdryK8
> 
> 
> https://healthypets.mercola.com/sit...hink-twice-about-feline-leukemia-vaccine.aspx
> ...


I feel like my dog is coming out of a two-year crisis with immunization disruption of his immune system. I really hesitate to ever have him get another rabies shot or any other. I would hate to repeat the nightmare of what happened. As it is, I have him on prescription food which thankfully helped tremendously. Carmen and Moms know what they are talking about in regard to immune systems of dogs.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Heartandsoul said:


> monster, here is a link with info for Washington Rabis law. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/4300/ZD-RabiesCompendium2008.pdf
> 
> Check ou pg 10 & 11 for manufacturers info.


I see you are in WA.

My breeder lives in Pacific County. She told me she never gets rabies shots for her dogs. It is not required in Pacific County--she lives in Long Beach, WA. She said it's the Counties in WA that make the rules about rabies--not the state. A friend of mine in rescue told me dogs and cats are not known to have contracted rabies in years and years around here. Lepto is different--there are cases.

My breeder uses a homeopathic vet in Oregon. I ordered parvo and distemper on-line as separate shots for the Dr. Dobb's protocols which I had my vet administer. I was really careful not to over vaccinate. The rabies booster and a lepto (even though I had spacing between them) at about 14 months is where it all went downhill as far as my dog's immune system. I live in a high lepto area and my vet strongly recommended getting lepto so I did. When my dog had the rabies 6 weeks later, he became a hot mess of totally chewing and biting his feet and coat and runny eyes. It was not seasonal . . .

I was feeding raw and finally abandoned it. (I had fed duck, venison, chicken, turkey, beef, lamb, rabbit, game hen, emu, bison.) Prescription food worked. 

-


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Moriah said:


> I see you are in WA.
> 
> My breeder lives in Pacific County. She told me she never gets rabies shots for her dogs. It is not required in Pacific County--she lives in Long Beach, WA. She said it's the Counties in WA that make the rules about rabies--not the state. A friend of mine in rescue told me dogs and cats are not known to have contracted rabies in years and years around here. Lepto is different--there are cases.
> 
> -


Washington State rule, WAC 246-100-197, says:

An owner of a dog, cat, or ferret shall have it vaccinated against rabies and revaccinated following veterinary and vaccine manufacturer instructions. An "owner" is any person legally responsible for the care and actions of a pet animal.

It's been the rule in Pacific County since 2012 as well.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Magwart said:


> Lepto only provides maximum protection for about 6 months before it starts to decline. I wouldn't expect any protection after a year. We do the Lepto-4 vax annually, unless there's a flood or hurricane in our region, then we booster early if we're over 6 months (Lepto cases tend to explode after floods/hurricanes -- PR is going through this right now, unfortunately). We're in a lepto hot spot with LOTS of clinical cases in dogs, and we have lots of wildlife around us that are known to carry it. There are other places where clinics may never see a case of it, so it might not be needed _at all _there. Lepto is one where having a GOOD vet you can trust makes all the difference in recommending a locally tailored protocol.
> 
> As for vet pricing, I think there's two different things driving the increasing cost of care. One is technology -- cutting edge diagnostics, complex surgical procedures, and medicines migrate from human care to vet care, and they're expensive. We also have access to more board-certified specialties than ever before. That doesn't explain why basic office visits have gone up so much at many typical suburban clinics -- a visit that was once $25 may be $50 now, if you're old enough to remember. That's probably being driven by something else: student debt to finance veterinary education.
> 
> ...


I'm constantly conflicted about this...I am pretty sure my area is not a high risk area but my dogs are high risk dogs-- my boy wants to lick dog pee, and we live in a pretty wild area and they do drink from streams and puddles sometimes.

I know they have recently brought up some hurricane dogs that were infected with it. I think there were 10 puppies from puerto rico that were brought to New England with lepto.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Magwart said:


> Lepto only provides maximum protection for about 6 months before it starts to decline. I wouldn't expect any protection after a year. We do the Lepto-4 vax annually, unless there's a flood or hurricane in our region, then we booster early if we're over 6 months (Lepto cases tend to explode after floods/hurricanes -- PR is going through this right now, unfortunately). We're in a lepto hot spot with LOTS of clinical cases in dogs, and we have lots of wildlife around us that are known to carry it. There are other places where clinics may never see a case of it, so it might not be needed _at all _there. Lepto is one where having a GOOD vet you can trust makes all the difference in recommending a locally tailored protocol.
> 
> As for vet pricing, I think there's two different things driving the increasing cost of care. One is technology -- cutting edge diagnostics, complex surgical procedures, and medicines migrate from human care to vet care, and they're expensive. We also have access to more board-certified specialties than ever before. That doesn't explain why basic office visits have gone up so much at many typical suburban clinics -- a visit that was once $25 may be $50 now, if you're old enough to remember. That's probably being driven by something else: student debt to finance veterinary education.
> 
> ...


Thats true Magwort. I hadn't thought of student debt. I made it through nursing school on Pell Grants (free) and a $2000 student loan paid back in a year. Vet school is hard to get into and the cost is huge.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I'm constantly conflicted about this...I am pretty sure my area is not a high risk area but my dogs are high risk dogs-- my boy wants to lick dog pee, and we live in a pretty wild area and they do drink from streams and puddles sometimes.


I would ask your vet to ask the nearest vet school (maybe Tufts in New England?) about the incidence of clinical cases in dogs. That will give you a data-driven way to approach the risk. It really is so variable regionally! The vet school will likely have some numbers since dogs in kidney failure tend to need specialist care and get referred in. They probably won't share them with you, but they'll likely share them with a licensed vet.

The problem with the advice some people give about just treating it with antibiotics if the dog catches it is that this treatment only works in the very early stage of it. The symptoms are so vague in the early stage that most of us wouldn't even take the dog to the vet for them right away -- a little lethargy and depressed appetite wouldn't send most of us running to the vet immediately, and waiting a few days may mean the easy treatment window closed...and then you're dealing with a dog going into kidney failure, several thousand dollars in specialist care, and strong risk of losing the dog.

The nonsense some people write about lepto cases not happening in the United States infuriates me because it's factually false and gives people living in warm, wet climates an erroneous sense of safety. My vet friends have all had patients die from it, despite valiant efforts to save them...and we are in the United States. I met a lady whose GSD had died from it because she believed Internet advice not to vax, even though she lived in a South Louisiana, where lepto is rampant. She believed strangers on the Internet over her vet, and her dog paid the price. She wished she had a do-over.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

https://www.cdc.gov/leptospirosis/pdf/fact-sheet.pdf


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I also am a fan of Dr. Dodd's schedule. 

My dog received his core puppy shots as recommended by Dr. Dodd, and now only gets a titer for Parvo and Distemper. 

Here in FL the law stated that Rabies vaccination was to be given by 5 months of age. I scheduled his puppy Rabies vac. the day before he turned 5 months of age. 
By law he had to get another Rabies vac. a year later and then every 3 years. I am so hoping that 5 year vaccinations will soon be approved.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I follow a rough idea of Dr. Dodds using AAHA guidelines as well.

I vaccinate Rabies by state law. There is no cure for Rabies, don't screw around with it.

I vaccinate puppy series, titer at 1 year. Then titer every 3 years after. Jax had her puppy, I think a 1 year, titered at 4 years and revaccinated at 8. Done. 

Seger has his puppy series, revaccinated at 1 per the titer results, titered at 2 with good results. Will be titered again this coming year for core vaccines.


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