# Orijen Large Breed Puppy vs. Royal Canin GSD Puppy 30



## tuffloud1

I just got my 10 week old puppy on Orijen Large Breed Puppy, however, I just saw Royal Canin German Shepherd Puppy 30 and was suprised that it is geared specifically for the GSD puppy.

The ingredients are very different in that the Royal Canin has grains and glucosamine and chondroitin added. Royal Canin also adds soy because they claim it aids in digestion.

I know the calcium and phosporus is important to keep in the right levels and ratios. The Orijen Large Breed Puppy is perfect in that regard, however, I can't find the levels in the Royal Canin GSD Puppy 30.

I thought I had found what seems to be the highest quality food in the Orijen, however I'm having second thoughts because the Royal Canin is made specifically for the GSD puppy. Apparently much of the early history of Royal Canin is related to the GSD dog.

What do all of you recommend for your German Shepherd pupp? Is the "specific breed" line of food that Royal Canin is slapping on it just a gimmick?


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## Lucy Dog

It's all marketing with these breed specific geared kibbles. Think about it... you've got a cute new german shepherd puppy and you don't know anything about dog food. You walk in the store and see a bag with a great looking GSD on it... it's going to draw you to that bag. It's all marketing. 

Ingredient wise, Orijen is much better than Royal Canin. If you're worried about glucosamine in the diet, just get some glucosamine supplements.


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## tuffloud1

Lucy Dog said:


> It's all marketing with these breed specific geared kibbles. Think about it... you've got a cute new german shepherd puppy and you don't know anything about dog food. You walk in the store and see a bag with a great looking GSD on it... it's going to draw you to that bag. It's all marketing.
> 
> Ingredient wise, Orijen is much better than Royal Canin. If you're worried about glucosamine in the diet, just get some glucosamine supplements.


Ya, I get it. 

My vet doesn't recommend any supplements. She said any supplements would do more harm than good.

I'm wondering how glucosamine and chondroitin would hurt.

For a 10 week puppy, what joint supplements specifcally would you reccomend and how long should I keep him on it?


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## sable123

Lucy Dog said:


> It's all marketing with these breed specific geared kibbles. Think about it... you've got a cute new german shepherd puppy and you don't know anything about dog food. You walk in the store and see a bag with a great looking GSD on it... it's going to draw you to that bag. It's all marketing.
> 
> Ingredient wise, Orijen is much better than Royal Canin. If you're worried about glucosamine in the diet, just get some glucosamine supplements.


Royal Canin was started by a Vet that was looking for a better food for what breed? Answer: German Shepherd Dog. Yes the company's first food was designed to help GSD's digest more efficiently.

The ingredient list is just one aspect of a food. What I like about this diet is that it has been tested on just this breed for more than 30 years. Royal Canin also does no consumer panel testing which is very important. Every diet is tested on the Royal Canin kennel and results are measured scientifically not how many times the dog wags it tail while eating or if the poop smells like roses. I have read consumer panel surveys and I remember one person said her dog started dancing better on a particular food.

Also, RC employs production standards on par with a human bakery.

Personally I would use RC. Also, most supplements are a complete and utter waste of money so unless your dog has a specific documented condition, don't waste your money, especially on enzymes and joint supplements.


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## sagelfn

I started out feeding RC, my pup did not do well on it. Now I feed Orijen


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## Lucy Dog

sagelfn said:


> I started out feeding RC, my pup did not do well on it. Now I feed Orijen


Same exact thing with Lucy. She started out on RC and she hated it and did not do well on it at all. Now she's on Orijen and I'm very happy with it.


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## High5

I use the origin LBP also. Katie's stools are a little on the soft side but she loves the stuff.


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## Sulamk

My pup does well on royal Canin german shepherd junior 30 prior to that she was on supavet, jock, pedigree lb puppy and never had a firm stool finally ending up with mucus and blood in her stools. she was changed on vets advice to the rc and a bit of yoghurt and within a day and half had firm stools and hasn't looked back.


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## Tihannah

I think if your pup is doing well on the Orijen, why change? Personally, I like the ingredients in Orijen better. I'm not sure how much the Royal Canin is, but if they are the same I would stick with Orijen.


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## tuffloud1

I don't get how RC claims that soy aids in digestion, from all my own personal experience and experience with human babies, soy is horrible. Gas, bloating and discomfort.

Why would soy help sooth the digestion of a carnivore, this makes absolutely no sense to me. 

Soy is scientifcally proven to be bad for male hormones, it's worthless garbage.


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## tuffloud1

sable123 said:


> Royal Canin was started by a Vet that was looking for a better food for what breed? Answer: German Shepherd Dog. Yes the company's first food was designed to help GSD's digest more efficiently.
> 
> The ingredient list is just one aspect of a food. What I like about this diet is that it has been tested on just this breed for more than 30 years. Royal Canin also does no consumer panel testing which is very important. Every diet is tested on the Royal Canin kennel and results are measured scientifically not how many times the dog wags it tail while eating or if the poop smells like roses. I have read consumer panel surveys and I remember one person said her dog started dancing better on a particular food.
> 
> Also, RC employs production standards on par with a human bakery.
> 
> Personally I would use RC. Also, most supplements are a complete and utter waste of money so unless your dog has a specific documented condition, don't waste your money, especially on enzymes and joint supplements.


The only thing I really see that is unique in the RC is the soy that is added to "sooth digestion". Other than that the Orijen has better, higher quality ingredients.

I don't really understand your statement "most supplements are a complete and utter waste of money".

I've been on whey protein supplements since I was 18, I'm 30 now, healthy, lean and muscular. Granted I use it in sequence with gym training, but nevertheless, I could not have the results without the supplementation. I know this because when supplementing protein with my regular diet, I would notice a drastic difference in the gym and the way I felt.

And furthermore, RC adds glucosamine and chondroitin to their puppy formula. These are "supplements" to encourage healthy joint growth in a puppy that doesn't have "a specific documented condition".

Orijen also has glucosamine and chondroitin, they just don't make it a huge selling point like Royal Canin.

I'm a little perplexed by your statements.


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## tuffloud1

He's been on Orijen LBP for a few days now and was doing fine, now all the sudden, this morning he had explosive green diarreah.

Do I need to just decrese the dosage. This was bad, it stunk horribly, I almost gagged.

He's 10 weeks old, and I'm feeding him 2 1/4 cups divided into 3 meals a day.

Should I just try reducing the amount?

He seemed to be doing perfectly fine on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy.


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## stealthq

Green diarrhea and a super-bad smell immediately makes me suspect giardia or coccidiosis. If I were you, I'd get a fecal done by a vet and not assume it's the food.


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## tuffloud1

stealthq said:


> Green diarrhea and a super-bad smell immediately makes me suspect giardia or coccidiosis. If I were you, I'd get a fecal done by a vet and not assume it's the food.


I'm going to run home at lunch, if he it happens again, I'll take him into the vet.

Can puppies have green poop without having giardia or coccidiosis?

In humans, the bile secreated in the upper intestinal tract is green and by the time the stool travels to the end of the tract, it turns brown. Usually green poop indicates a "fast transit" which didn't allow the green color to be changed to brown.

Is it possible that he's just digesting too fast? Can a pupp have green poop and not have giardia or coccidiosis?


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## stealthq

Can they? Yes. You're right on the cause of the coloration, it's determining why the intestines are inflamed that's the issue. I'm assuming that if you'd used, say, a new type of treat that you'd have mentioned that in your original post. If he has done well on this food for a couple of days, I would expect such a dramatic and sudden change to be caused by something other than the food. Plus, I've been burned a couple of times by taking the 'wait and see' approach, so if I have a reasonable suspicion that something's wrong I head to the vet.

I should mention that giardia and coccidia aren't the only infectious causes of green diarrhea - just some of the more common ones where you wouldn't also be seeing fever, lack of appetite, etc.


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## tuffloud1

stealthq said:


> Can they? Yes. You're right on the cause of the coloration, it's determining why the intestines are inflamed that's the issue. I'm assuming that if you'd used, say, a new type of treat that you'd have mentioned that in your original post. If he has done well on this food for a couple of days, I would expect such a dramatic and sudden change to be caused by something other than the food. Plus, I've been burned a couple of times by taking the 'wait and see' approach, so if I have a reasonable suspicion that something's wrong I head to the vet.
> 
> I should mention that giardia and coccidia aren't the only infectious causes of green diarrhea - just some of the more common ones where you wouldn't also be seeing fever, lack of appetite, etc.


I've been using small bits of hot dogs as treats, however, for a few days now.

The only change is, the amount of Orijen that was fed yesterday and instead of giving the hot dog bits cold, I heated them up in the microwave until crispy (someone told me it's a good way to make doggy treats).


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## stealthq

I wouldn't think that would be a problem. But, if you want to test, don't feed him the Orijen or the hot dogs today. Switch to a nice bland, soothing food. I believe people here recommend boiled chicken and twice-cooked rice, but search for it to be certain and get a recipe. If the diarrhea goes away, it was definitely caused by diet. Then you could re-introduce the Orijen and see if he's OK on just that (if so, scrap the hotdogs). Otherwise, off to the vet  I would not wait longer than 24hrs. from the 1st diarrhea to go, and go immediately if he shows any other symptoms, of course.


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## tuffloud1

Ok, so I reduced his food the whole day yesterday to less than half of what he was eating and his next stool was more solid and the one this morning was almost back to normal, however there is still a slight green tinge to it, not extremely green but greenish/brown. 

And it's soft/solid.

Maybe the split pea soup was caused by too much food? All I was doing is following the Orijen recommendation.

Is it better to feed twice a day or three times a day? 2 times seems like an awful lot to feed at once to get the recommended amount in.

Also, is it better to kind of play it by ear and let him tell me when he's hungry, in other words, let him get hungry before he eats?


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## WVGSD

For a youngster, it is preferable to feed three meals each day. 

Also, hot dogs are "generally" full of fat. I would eliminate all hotdogs and, if you want a nice healthy treat for your puppy, switch to cooked boneless skinless chicken breasts cut up in small pieces. The increased fat in the hotdogs could be a contributing factor to the diarrhea.

If his stool continues to have a foul odor, get him to a vet ASAP.


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## tuffloud1

WVGSD said:


> For a youngster, it is preferable to feed three meals each day.
> 
> Also, hot dogs are "generally" full of fat. I would eliminate all hotdogs and, if you want a nice healthy treat for your puppy, switch to cooked boneless skinless chicken breasts cut up in small pieces. The increased fat in the hotdogs could be a contributing factor to the diarrhea.
> 
> If his stool continues to have a foul odor, get him to a vet ASAP.


Not to be a smart a**, but doesn't poop usually smell bad?


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## sparra

I feed RC and my pup is doing well on it but here in Australia RC is *the* premium dog food. We don't have the others mentioned on here...you know the grain free ones. I was a bit disappointed when I found out that the 4 top brands here in Oz are pretty mediocre compared to what you can get in the US I pay $120 for a 15kg bag so i want better than mediocre but it is better than the other choices and he is thriving.
Yes all poop does smell but there are varying degrees of "stinkiness"  
Usually our dogs poop is pretty good and not really that offensive but the other day I was feeding our orphaned lambs and had some milk left over and the dogs were ...well...giving me the look so I caved and gave them some....well the smell the next day was stomach turning....ewwww!!!!!


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## Paul_R

Is it possible that the pup could have gotten into something it shouldn't have eaten? Like plants in the garden/yard? That happens to us from time to time. Otherwise (according to the people at Orijin) overfeeding is the #1 cause of diarrhea. It sure holds true for us. We're on the Orijin LBP too.


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## stealthq

tuffloud1 said:


> Not to be a smart a**, but doesn't poop usually smell bad?


I'm assuming your puppy's OK now since you haven't posted in the last couple of days, but just FYI ... yes, of course poop smells bad. BUT. Poop that smells unusually foul is a big red flag. 

When I lived in Houston, my dog got giardia multiple times. First indication - soft stool where the odor would send you _reeling_ backwards. Ignore that, and the next poo was explosive diarrhea. I learned quickly. This is just an example, of course. Really foul smelling poo can be a sign of just about anything that causes severe intestinal upset and shouldn't be ignored. At a minimum, it indicates that something is out of balance in the dog's diet.


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## tuffloud1

stealthq said:


> I'm assuming your puppy's OK now since you haven't posted in the last couple of days, but just FYI ... yes, of course poop smells bad. BUT. Poop that smells unusually foul is a big red flag.
> 
> When I lived in Houston, my dog got giardia multiple times. First indication - soft stool where the odor would send you _reeling_ backwards. Ignore that, and the next poo was explosive diarrhea. I learned quickly. This is just an example, of course. Really foul smelling poo can be a sign of just about anything that causes severe intestinal upset and shouldn't be ignored. At a minimum, it indicates that something is out of balance in the dog's diet.


The diarreah is completely gone. His stool is solid/moist and seems to be a dark brown.

The smell seems to fluctuate. Sometimes it smells foul, sometimes I can't smell anything.

I'm thinking that whatever happened when the diarreah came was from the hot dog treats or peanut butter I put in his Kong.

I eliminated those 2 things and no more diarreah.

He also is very energetic (when he plays) and seems to enjoy his Orijen. I even use it as treats when training now.


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## GSDgirlAL

Same thing happened to Cooper when he was a puppy, it was caused from feeding a little too much. Once I cut down on the portion things got back to normal. Also, keep in mind that Orijen is a very rich food so sometimes it takes a while for them to adjust and get the GI tract in order. I'm in the process of switching Ava to Orijen, have been mixing it in for 2 weeks now simple b/c I know it's a rich food. She loves it ... I think I picked a good one


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## tuffloud1

GSDgirlAL said:


> Same thing happened to Cooper when he was a puppy, it was caused from feeding a little too much. Once I cut down on the portion things got back to normal. Also, keep in mind that Orijen is a very rich food so sometimes it takes a while for them to adjust and get the GI tract in order. I'm in the process of switching Ava to Orijen, have been mixing it in for 2 weeks now simple b/c I know it's a rich food. She loves it ... I think I picked a good one


He's 11 weeks now and I'm feeding him 2 1/4 cups per the bag recommendation.

The stools are still soft, but very formed. Maybe I should lessen the amount? Is the chart on the bag a good guideline?


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## GSDgirlAL

I would lessen the amount just by a little bit and see if that doesn't help. It might take a couple of days in order for him to get used to this food. Honestly, I don't go by the chart, I give Ava a certain amount each day and increase it according to her exercise for that particular day. However, when she was a puppy I did go by the chart on the bag .. give or take a little bit. It is a guideline which is an approximate amount. Here's an idea too ... if you feel better about keeping him on what the bag suggest split it up into 3 meals ... that might help.


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## tuffloud1

Just thought I'd give an update, I've had my boy on Orijen 6-fish for over a month now and he's doing amazing on it. No loose stools, energetic, shiny coat.

Here's a couple of pictures of him at 19 weeks -


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## WVGSD

Actually, there should be very little if any odor to a healthy dog's stool when fed good quality food. I know, I pick up after nine adult dogs every day - three and four times per day. 

You have a lovely dog there . 




tuffloud1 said:


> Not to be a smart a**, but doesn't poop usually smell bad?


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## Nymeria

Nymeria came home at 8 weeks old got lose poop, as soon as switched to Orijen, much better. But every time feed her more than regular, she got lose poop again. Now We feed her less than the guide.


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## Chicagocanine

I've found that my (adult) dogs often need less than what the guidelines on the food bags said. IMO it's really an individual thing so it's best to watch your dog's body condition closely and feed based on that (how they look/feel, their muscle tone and whether they seem to be getting thinner or fat, etc...) The amounts given on the bag give a place to start but depending on the dog you may have to feed more or less.


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## Baddogkuzz

*Revisit Orijen Large Breed Puppy vs. Royal Canin GSD Puppy*

Now I might be a new GSD owner but I have always had large dogs and I learned a few lessons the hard way with large breed puppy food with raising St.Bernard puppies 20 yrs ago. I was young and I wanted my dogs to be HUGE and feed them the highest protein food and tons of raw meat that I could and that was the "WRONG" thing to do. In a large to giant breed dog you don't want your puppy to grow to fast because as in one of my St. Bernard's "Moosie". It is healthier to not promote growth past what should be expected. If anything slowing the growth alittle at key stages of a dogs life can make for healthier bones & joints down the road. Moosie at 10 mths old and 100+lbs ended up at Purdue vet school to have shoulder surgery. It was very costly, the dog couldn't stand for 2 weeks. He couldn't hold his own weight on his shoulders for weeks after that. Come to find out that doing what I did by giving him the wrong food, it effected the growth plates in his bones & joints along with other issues.
Shoulder Joint Ligament and Tendon Conditions in Dogs | petMD

Back to the subject on hand and that is to revisit Orijen Large Breed Puppy vs. Royal Canin GSD Puppy. I have been researching foods for my 16 week GSD "Maximus" and so far he has been on RC Maxi per the breeder and have had good results. But I wanted to see what the best GSD puppy food I could afford is out there. To start with from my research I only see one downside to the Orijen Large Breed Puppy is the COST. Great stuff but there is NO way I can afford it. Also in my opinion it seems to be geared towards not only a healthy diet but also geared towards promoting growth. Which is not what I want for my puppy at this time.

So for me the RC GSD Puppy seems to be alittle better than the RC Maxi for my goals with my puppy's growth and it is at the top of my price range for dog food. So I will be slowly be switching Maximus over to the RC GSD Puppy food.

When the subject of best comes up I think some people loss focus on a couple of key factors when the term "BEST" is put out there. Things like cost and what your goals are as far as health and growth are concerned always need to be factored in.


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## nct

*orijen, royal canin or other for tummy problems*

Hi,

We recently rescued a DSG about 1.5 y.o. The rescue gave us a bag of Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Boost grain free so we used that for 2 weeks, then switched him to Taste of the Wild which he was on for almost 2 more weeks. After about the 4th week he threw up what looked like a whole rubber ball! After he threw up a little more of the ball and some food the next morning we took him to the vet. They did X-rays, ultra sounds and put him on fluids then sent him home. After throwing up 2 more times we took him to a different vet for more x-rays, another ultra sound and a 2 nights stay for supervision and continued IVs. They STILL don't have a legitimate answer- nothing showing up in x-rays, stool is fine, and blood work is fine. They put him on Royal Canin wet food, and he seems to be doing better. We tried to put him back on Taste of the Wild, but he threw up just bile. Back on the RC and hes been ok...i'd prefer not to keep him on it long since it seems not to have great nutritional values, but if it keeps his tummy from being upset then i could settle for it. I'm wondering if you guys think 1. his upset could be the food change and 2. would you keep him on royal canin or transition him back to the Natures Variety?


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## bngsdad

The dog will grow up faster with Orijen because it has a really high crude protein content... The problem here is the dog's increase in weight is faster than the development of his hips, shoulders and other joints. That's why there's always a risk.


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## bngsdad

nct said:


> *orijen, royal canin or other for tummy problems*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We recently rescued a DSG about 1.5 y.o. The rescue gave us a bag of Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Boost grain free so we used that for 2 weeks, then switched him to Taste of the Wild which he was on for almost 2 more weeks. After about the 4th week he threw up what looked like a whole rubber ball! After he threw up a little more of the ball and some food the next morning we took him to the vet. They did X-rays, ultra sounds and put him on fluids then sent him home. After throwing up 2 more times we took him to a different vet for more x-rays, another ultra sound and a 2 nights stay for supervision and continued IVs. They STILL don't have a legitimate answer- nothing showing up in x-rays, stool is fine, and blood work is fine. They put him on Royal Canin wet food, and he seems to be doing better. We tried to put him back on Taste of the Wild, but he threw up just bile. Back on the RC and hes been ok...i'd prefer not to keep him on it long since it seems not to have great nutritional values, but if it keeps his tummy from being upset then i could settle for it. I'm wondering if you guys think 1. his upset could be the food change and 2. would you keep him on royal canin or transition him back to the Natures Variety?


Sometimes the sudden change of diet will do that. The sudden shift to different ingredients and nutritional value causes that... What you could do is slowly shift from old to new like 75/25 for the first 3 days, 50/50 for another 3 days, 25/75 another 3 days then the total shift to the new product.


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## bngsdad

If the Royal Canin is specifically formulated for the breed why not?


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