# AlphaTex Kennels in TX-300 dogs seized in deplorable conditions



## lar07

Here is the link to the news article with the video of the owner being confronted for what she is doing to these poor animals (a large majority of the dogs are GSDs)..
300 Dogs Rescued from Squalid Texas Kennel | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

And this is just a warning to all people who are looking for their next GSD puppy, or thinking about going to a breeder: Just because the breeder/puppy mill has a decent looking website and seems to be taking care of their dogs, DOES NOT mean this is true. Go see the kennel first before making any decisions. I browsed this woman's website and people like veterinarians (who you think would know better) have purchased dogs from her! 

What really gets me upset is that on their website, they are asking for help from people to get their "babies" back. She also has the nerve to talk about the horrible things that are puppy mills when she is operating one. http://www.alphatexkennels.com:mad:

If you would like to help, a local GSD rescue is accepting applications for foster homes and also taking donations: ChipIn: Puppies and Dogs from the Puppy Mill


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## ChristenHolden

OMG they have a add in one of our local FREE papers. I have even been to the site!!! Glad the dogs are in a better place!! Poor things


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## LaRen616

Those poor dogs and horses!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

How disgusting!


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## Lucy Dog

Disgusting. These people are either in complete denial or just completely nuts. Probably a little bit of both.


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## selzer

300 dogs would be a lot to manage, especially if one of the people taking care of them got sick. The water looked kind of like Bear's after she goes leg-dipping -- ok, maybe hers isn't that bad. The flies on the food, disgusting. And the horse -- horrendous. The collie dog looked pretty matted. I am glad no one used the worn out line that it is the worst they have ever seen. But, even if you're other half is having surgeries the dogs need to be taken care of properly. 

I am sure that the judge will see the photos and make a call. I wouldn't get past that horse -- they would have to show me evidence that it was surrendered to them this week, or that the vet has been there already, or I would be seriously thinking they shouldn't own any critter.


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## JakodaCD OA

I watched the video, and saw where they found a dead dog in one of the barns, the woman had no answer for that one( so sad for all those dogs who will now hopefully have a better life


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## selzer

Some of us with one dog, or with a handful of dogs come home and find that one of them has died. A dog can bloat, have an aneurism, or hemangiosarcoma and be dead. That in and of itself would not indicate to me that they were a hideous place. 

If there were dog-skeletons in the pen with other dogs -- yeah, draw and quarter the owners. 

A few dogs with skin conditions wouldn't send me into hysterics either. The breed has sensitive skin. And anyone with a number of dogs is going to struggle with some issues. 

The place looked like it was going down fast. She was over-run with dogs and not able to keep after it. And the horse -- that will give me nightmares. 

People breeding are on a slippery slope though. Some might let an aging dog linger a while and take their time making the decision to euthanize because it is a pet, and we are not quite ready to let the dog go, but imagine how that looks to people with in the audience. They see an older dog, maybe blind, maybe having a hard time getting up, maybe not having the best body condition and the angry mob forms with the torches and pitch forks. I can see how breeders might hasten the decision to euthanize a dog simply because they cannot have such an animal on the property. I know when I was going through that bad food issue, I had a ready stack of vet bills handy to be able to prove that I was working with a vet on the problem -- because that dog looked like I was starving her for a while. 

With kennel help and fewer dogs, younger with health and energy, they may have been a respectable place at one time.


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## JakodaCD OA

well I heard the guy say the dog had been dead for some time

looks like they were way over their heads, and in complete denial about the disgusting conditions of most of the animals 

I'll bet we'll be seeing this one on Animal Cops..


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## Stevenzachsmom

Wow! So this started when her husband had surgeries in April. Seriously? That was almost six months ago. That's a pretty darned long time.


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## onyx'girl

The breeder is in denial. Over her head or not, she obviously can't admit the poor animals are neglected. Then to beg on her website for help to get them back? She should have asked for help in April. 

And _quit _breeding during that time to reduce the already overload of her kennel....17 litters of GSD's alone thru the Summer. How many Collie and Golden litters on top of that???


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## SaberCt

www.alphatexkennels.com said:


> ...The Sheriff of Floyd County Texas, Paul Raissez, and the Justice of the peace of pct. 2&3, Kelly K. Dunbar, signed a warrant of the seizure of all our beautiful dogs. He Came on to our property today 9-28-2011. They took everyone of our beautiful precious dogs and put them in open trailers and took them away. The Sheriff said he was doing it for the dogs good...
> 
> That is where we need everyone of you that possibly can to come to Lockney, Texas on Monday, the 3rd of Oct. at 11:00am. Please come and help support us and help us get our beautiful babies back. They even took the babies away from their mothers. They have no clue what the pedigrees are to what dog. They even took the babies away that are already sold. And he said he was even going to take the house dogs away. {as of this writing they are still with us}. But they are still loading our beautiful dogs in to stock trailers, now.
> 
> I know this is a lot to ask of you all but please help us. We are going to have to hire a lawyer to defend us in this action. Please help us in anyway you can, but especially please give us your Prayers.
> 
> Sandra, Mark and Kory Smith


How can we spread the word to tell people to support the SHERIFF and the COURTS? She lost her chance to ask for help back when she even had a THOUGHT that there might be a problem down the road. I might have sympathized a little bit, but when you're responding to police like:

* Sheriff: . "Have you seen the water? I would take a cup and go dip it in some of that water and see if you would drink it."
Breeder: "Well it's not a matter of whether I would drink it."

And the water is browner than the feces that covered the floor? I'll angry mob and pitchfork that kind of response all day.​


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## selzer

It's a long time, but the older we get the longer it takes us to bounce back after a surgery, or a couple of surgeries. The dogs look like they have been provided for, not wonderfully, but they did not look like they were starving, I mean it does not look like she just threw her hands up and stopped feeding or cleaning up after the dogs. I think she probably took some short-cuts, like leaving those buckets out there for a week, and maybe filling them with a hose without scrubbing them out. 

Who knows what would have happened in another six months. Either the husband gets to 100% and they start getting stuff back in order, or it gets that much worse. 

I think I need to look again at the condition of the dogs. I did not see anything that they would sieze an ordinary owner's dogs for in that video, they might tell them to scrub out the bucket and give the dog fresh water, to feed the canned food in the house so it does not attract flies. I will go look at it again. 

But the horse. The horse is what I can't seem to get over.


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## onyx'girl

The first thing on the website's puppy sale page is this: 
"Remember you can charge your baby on Visa or MasterCard from here on the web-site or we have a payout plan available if needed" 

That is always a turn off when I look on a breeders website. It tells me they are not in it for the breed.


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## JakodaCD OA

some of the puppies looked like goldens, in the beginning of the video, looked sick, collies missing fur,,floors of the inside pens, filthy 

The website sure looks 'nice", it looks like it's a husband/wife/son, who is not a little kid, and yeah ALOTTA litters,,

I agree with the OP , this could be a good lesson that looking at 'nice' websites doesn't necessarily means "nice" place


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## Stevenzachsmom

Did this woman receive any prior warning? An opportunity to improve the conditions? It seems people usually get that chance. If none was given, it would seem that conditions must be pretty bad - that there was concern the animals were in immediate danger.


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## selzer

I am just not seeing it. I have a dog that can get her water mucky in ten minutes. She loves to paddle in it. The guy did not say the dead dog had been there for days or months, he said, "no telling how long." Could have been hours. We do not know.

I think there inside area with all the pens, that they used masks in, I did not see all the poop, but amonia smell was probably strong. I did not see all kinds of poop. So maybe I am just missing that. 

She is a big breeder, yes, I do not know if it is criminal. The horse -- yeah, I think that is criminal.


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## LaRen616

The puppies were filthy, the adult dogs were filthy, some of the dogs looked sick, they were matted and needed to be brushed, the horses looked thin to me and the horse with the leg looked terrible. Their water and food looked disgusting. 

This is animal cruelty! 

I dont know how anyone can look at that and say it doesn't look bad.


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## wolfstraum

JEEZE.....I lost track at 13 litters in the last 5 months of GSDs - did not even look at the Goldens or Collies....too many dogs....I don't even want to see anything more about a horse..!

Lee


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## selzer

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Did this woman receive any prior warning? An opportunity to improve the conditions? It seems people usually get that chance. If none was given, it would seem that conditions must be pretty bad - that there was concern the animals were in immediate danger.


This. It would depend on whether they had tried to work with her, and she refused to improve conditions, or I don't know. There is something that shows me that this lady is not a complete fiend. That is the tri-pod dog. Someone who was only in it for the money would not have paid the vet to amputate the leg, they would have put the dog down. 

And it did not even look like there were that many puppies. I know that we did not see everything. We saw maybe two litters. With 300 dogs, figure 250 easy are females, that would be forty one bitches in heat at any given time. If they bred half of them, and only 1/3 took that would be 7 or 8 litters a month born, and if she keeps them for 6-8 weeks, you would see 14 - 16 litters easy. I am not seeing that.

ETA: dogs poop. There is no way you can go into any kennel of any size and not find some lumps. There are lumps in my kennels I am sure, actually, I am worried when I go to pick up if I do not see a pile or two in each kennel. And yes poo stinks. I was expecting to see a LOT of poo like the German Kennel MrsK posted, or like you see on animal hoarders.


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## onyx'girl

Does the world really need this breeder adding her mass production of puppies? Where do they all end up?


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## JakodaCD OA

under her links they have
German Imports 9 males 26 Females
American GSD 4 males 9 Females
Collies 6 Males 11 Females
Goldens 2 males 6 Females

PLUS 'rising stars" which I didn't even count..

Total 21 males 52 Females...sorry that's alotta dogs right there


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## onyx'girl

Wonder how they manage to avoid oops litters?


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## Whiteshepherds

Selzer I think you're being too generous...or too kind...or just trying to see the good in people. 

This is the second time in two days I've read a story about dogs being pulled from a breeder. Makes me want to put them in the kennels they think are clean and let them wallow in their own filth for a few weeks.See how they feel about it then. Then for good measure just shoot them.:angryfire:


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## selzer

It is a lot of dogs. 

It is not illegal to have a lot of dogs and to breed a lot of dogs and to produce a lot of puppies. 

I do not know that they should seize dogs because they do not think it is morally right to own, breed, produce a number of them.

I do not know that the ultimatum should have been, sign over your dogs or we will get a seizure warrant. I really did not see any dogs whose condition looked critical. Yes a dog died. But how many of us have had a dog die? We do not know why the dog died, it could have been natural causes. 

In any other business, people are given an opportunity to meet standards. They should not seize animals who do not seem like their lives are threatened. I think seizure was excessive. I do not believe someone should own that many dogs, breed that many litters, produce that many puppies, but I do not think I should make that call for other people.


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## lar07

ChristenHolden said:


> OMG they have a add in one of our local FREE papers. I have even been to the site!!! Glad the dogs are in a better place!! Poor things


That's what is so scary about this! The trial is on October 3rd, I'm hoping the dogs stay away from her kennel and all go to a better place. It's so sad.


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## lar07

selzer said:


> It's a long time, but the older we get the longer it takes us to bounce back after a surgery, or a couple of surgeries. The dogs look like they have been provided for, not wonderfully, but they did not look like they were starving, I mean it does not look like she just threw her hands up and stopped feeding or cleaning up after the dogs. I think she probably took some short-cuts, like leaving those buckets out there for a week, and maybe filling them with a hose without scrubbing them out.
> 
> Who knows what would have happened in another six months. Either the husband gets to 100% and they start getting stuff back in order, or it gets that much worse.
> 
> I think I need to look again at the condition of the dogs. I did not see anything that they would sieze an ordinary owner's dogs for in that video, they might tell them to scrub out the bucket and give the dog fresh water, to feed the canned food in the house so it does not attract flies. I will go look at it again.
> 
> But the horse. The horse is what I can't seem to get over.


I'm in close connection with some of the GSD rescues in the area and more than one dog was found dead by the way. I'm a little bothered that you don't see anything wrong with how the dogs were being kept, yet you see the horse and feel horrible.  ALL of those animals deserve better.

Oh and there is a major coccidia problem too and they aren't sure how many will make it out of the puppies they took out.


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## selzer

lar07 said:


> I'm in close connection with some of the GSD rescues in the area and more than one dog was found dead by the way. I'm a little bothered that you don't see anything wrong with how the dogs were being kept, yet you see the horse and feel horrible.  ALL of those animals deserve better.
> 
> Oh and there is a major coccidia problem too and they aren't sure how many will make it out of the puppies they took out.


I did not say that I did not see anything wrong. 

I do not think from what I saw seizure was warranted, not unless there is more to the story.


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## onyx'girl

> In any other business, people are given an opportunity to meet standards


ANY other business...ok, but not with LIVESTOCK! 

As of now, I'm sure these poor animals are overwhelming the AC, rescues and all the volunteers. Just like the OH hoarder...put such a burden on the animals and those trying to help them. And he isn't even getting jail. 
When people choose to breed in such a capacity, there should be overseeing of the conditions(on the breeders dime) so this doesn't get to the point of suffering.


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## selzer

OMG, got to go now, just glanced at that rescue -- hoarder 370 some dogs 78 dead. Sick, sick, sick! 

Will read it tomorrow.


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## GSDolch

Those poor babies. I honestly have no words and I think my dinner is turning in my stomach now.


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## CelticGlory

From what was said, some people paid for puppies from this place correct? For those who have the dog's in their shelters/rescues what will happen to those puppies that had homes lined up?

I remember coming across this "breeders" website before, the pictures posted of the parents are old pictures, so the conditions could be way worse than the pictures tell (for any breeder, IMHO). I think it was around 2008 when I found them in my search, but I do know these are the same pictures I viewed. At that time I only remembered GSDs and Goldens, but not the collies.


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## ChristenHolden

Ya it is scary I almost called them after looking at the site. But something jus told me to wait and keep looking so glad I listened to that lil voice!! Also glad I'm on here and know more what to look for and when to run! No more newspaper GSDs here!!! If yall don't approve of them I'm not buying from them!!!


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## msvette2u

> Some of us with one dog, or with a handful of dogs come home and find that one of them has died.


Even so we'd be removing it within the hour! Who knows how long that dog had lain there.
The level of neglect there was not defensible in any way at all.


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## Emoore

msvette2u said:


> Even so we'd be removing it within the hour! Who knows how long that dog had lain there.
> The level of neglect there was not defensible in any way at all.


I've seen photos of the dead dog. It had been dead a good while. 


The latest I've heard on this (this morning) is that the dogs that were set to go to Texas rescues are now being held by the state at boarding facilities in Lubbock. This may be pending the lawsuit, I don't know. 

*If you're going to post on this thread condemning the evil that was done by these puppymill owners, please consider donating at least five or ten dollars to a rescue that will be housing, rehabilitating, and rehoming the animals that were there.*


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## patti

We went there a couple of years ago when we were thinking of getting a GSD. At the time, I know they were in over their heads. It wasn't to the point that I reported them. All the dogs were well fed, and the inside dogs seemed to be well loved. Yes, one needed grooming. And I felt there was not way those puppies were being socialized. But when the man mentioned they'd had parvo in the kennel, we left quickly. I mentioned them to our vet, who said they bring their dogs in for treatment, and knew of them. Way too many dogs, but at that time, not nearly 300. I know they don't deserve to keep their animals, (I didn't get close up to the horses, but from what I saw they looked healthy) But I get a little nervous when people can say how many is too many. And how big a pile of poop, how much algae in water. As someone else mentioned, I also have several old dogs, the oldest being 16 yrs. old, and while he is well fed, and happy, if someone didn't know the whole story, might think he was neglected. Don't yell at me, I agree that they need to lose their dogs and horses, but it is a slippery slope, in my opinion.


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## Emoore

patti said:


> But I get a little nervous when people can say how many is too many. And how big a pile of poop, how much algae in water. As someone else mentioned, I also have several old dogs, the oldest being 16 yrs. old, and while he is well fed, and happy, if someone didn't know the whole story, might think he was neglected. Don't yell at me, I agree that they need to lose their dogs and horses, but it is a slippery slope, in my opinion.


I absolutely agree with this. I had a horse who was a cancer patient and anyone seeing her would have reported us for neglect and cruelty, not knowing what we were spending on cancer treatment for a freaking horse. 

However, when you have 300 dogs and an unspecified number of horses and cattle living on five acres of land, when you have dead dogs that you don't have time to bury so they lay in the kennel for days or weeks, when you have sick dogs you don't have time to care for-- whether it's through deliberate cruelty or simple inability to care for them all, you shouldn't have those animals.


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## msvette2u

Here's the thing on that "slippery slope".
We can all agree those animals are suffering in multiple ways.
300 dogs - that's insane. You cannot care for 300 dogs, if it's just 4 people. Or 6!
Do the math.
And that water bucket the woman was defending!? That's not algae!
That is filthy water, it's got material in it I don't want to think about, but giardia and coccidia are a given in those conditions!

I'm just chuckling in that bitter, jaded way people do, and thinking, "and people buy their puppies from petstores thinking they've got a wonderful example of a 'well-bred' dog because it has papers!!"

I'd say there ought to be a number, a top number perhaps, but a ratio anyway, for instance, 10 dogs x number of caregivers.
One person could get around to cleaning up 10 dogs in a day. 

It makes me extremely sad, furthermore, that it is so very obvious these people were making money on these dogs and their reproductive "skills" and then took such abhorrent "care" of them...none of the funds were being used to benefit those poor animals.


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## msvette2u

When doing animal control, if I saw a "neglected" appearing animal, I would ask the owner if the pet had been seen by a vet, and was being treated. I would not confiscated a dog who'd been seen by a vet and had an actual medical issue diagnosed by that vet!
However, if that same owner had multiple animals in a state of neglect or if this same pet was tied out day after day (obviously) with no food/water on an ongoing basis, or fed sporadically, etc., that's entirely different than a pet who happens to be underweight when others in the home are healthy, or with a vet bill or two showing treatment.
We had a situation where a guy had horses, it was winter, and these horses were wandering all day over a blanket of snow, searching for food. All day, not just an hour or something. Anyone who knows horses or livestock knows they must eat frequently during the winter to stay warm!
I threatened the owner with a large ticket and he finally fed them...but that's a different situation than having one skinny horse and one (or more) fat one, for instance.


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## lar07

Update from German Shepherd Rescue of Central Texas:
"We just received word that the situation with the puppy mill has changed. We will not know if we are going to receive dogs/puppies until after the October 3rd hearing. The family is trying to fight the removal of their dogs. Please accept our apologies for any confusion our postings may have caused, we were told to scramble to find places for the dogs and now we are being put on hold. We ask that you please hold off on sending in foster applications and any donations via the ChipIn. Let's all hope that on Monday the dogs go to the places that they need to be and not back to the mill. Working in animal rescue is a tough thing to do, but in the end we all know that we are doing the right thing and that we are saving lives. Thank you all for your support. We'll update you soon when we know more."


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## GSDkid

Wow. I would put in an application to foster but I'm on the east coast. Too far from TX.


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## selzer

I have been counting on my fingers and toes and cannot possibly figure out how they could give even a basic amount of care to that many animals with three people and one seriously ill. 

I can clean up after, feed and water ten dogs in an hour. I do it every morning, In the winter it takes a little longer to haul water and shovel them in and out of the kennels. 

If it was a full time job, I suppose I could care for more. But not a hundred. 

I wonder if prior to the last couple of years they had kennel help. And the relative state of the economy has forced them to reduce the number of pups and they could no longer afford to pay for extra help. The dogs are still there, and getting older, and need care. And with the old man being sick/out of commission, I can see how they got to the state they are in. In fact, I am shocked it didn't look worse.

I think that the number of animals each individual is capable of managing is different. I might struggle with ten, while someone else manages thirty without thinking about it. I think if you put a tight cap on the number of animals an individual can own, many animals who are older or not to be used for one reason or another, or returned to the breeder will be euthanized to stay within acceptable limits. And these animals generally do not take a lot, expensive maybe with more vet bills, but their need for exercise, training, etc is usually lower.


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## Maverick

Hi guys! Although I've been on your site many many times, I have never posted before. I want to thank you for all the valuable information I have gained from so many of you over the years! Your help has been immensely valuable to my family!

I am the proud Mommy of 3 dogs; 2 rescues and 1 AKC GSD. I purchased the GSD from Alpha Tex Kennels 1 1/2 years ago when he was 3 months old. At the time I was not knowledgeable about what to ask and what to look for from breeders. I thought if a facility was AKC inspected, it was top notch, so I was surprised when I picked up a very sick 3 month puppy. I am very thankful I got him when I did, and was able to have him to a vet within hours to treat a severe coccidia infection and rehydrate before it was too late. 

I am fostering a 5 year old male that was rescued from Alpha Tex on Thursday. I watched as all the adults were unloaded, and from what I have seen and from what I was told I am sickened. Originally the Humane society received an anonymous complaint about the conditions in which dogs were being kept. The final number of dogs seized was 231. There were plenty of sick dogs there. There was a puppy with paralyzed legs and a Collie that had been sick for a long time. They had to put them both to sleep, but those were the only ones. It is amazing that out of 231 dogs, only had to put down two, especially with all of the illness that was there. Most of them are underweight and pretty beat up. What got me was a lot of the GSD are missing parts of their ears. They were just thrown in cages with no regard for the dogs they were being held with. Sometimes, dogs just don’t get along with other dogs, but that didn’t seem to play into the owner’s scheme. One dog had old scars and a deep cut across her head, and the dog’s ear was so mangled that it literally grew back together like “a crumpled piece of tin foil” because it had never been treated. I will note that my 3 month old puppy had a torn ear when I received him as well. The 5 year old that I am fostering has a chunk missing from his ear as well.

None of them had been groomed or cared for. Their pens were rarely cleaned and they lived in big houses with cement floors with no access to the outdoors from what I was told. The dogs were walking around in layers of feces and urine, which was also in their beds, as well as fecal matter caked on them somewhere. I did not see this because when the dogs arrived the majority were coward down in crates and terrified because they were not socialized, but I was told so many had broken legs that were never set properly. The dogs just walked around on them and the bones healed wrong. A mother dog with puppies only had three legs and the owners continued to breed her. From what I remember being told, there was a dead dog that has been there for sometime alongside the living animals. I believe there was a recent death of 2 more. When inspectors returned Wednesday, the dead dogs had been removed. However, after further investigation, a few bodies were found in the weeds where they had been dumped.

Here is the kicker. American Kennel Club representatives inspect his kennel annually, and did so most recently on Aug. 30. Apha Tex passes the inspection, although they noted a little detail work around the yard and pens needed to be done. Are these inspections scheduled or what? 

I truly believe the Smith's originally had good intentions. I think this situation is a result of things getting out of hand for several years. Mr. Smith was quoted as saying that
they usually try to stay between the 100-120 ranges, but it's been a year that their numbers have increased. They haven't gotten all of them sold. It happens. It's a cycle. 

All I know is that I truly pray my foster GSD will hopefully be granted a permanent membership to my family. He is amazing and each day shows more and more personality.


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## msvette2u

AKC likes it because they pump out registrations which = $$ for AKC. And then the purchasers of the pups (the ones that survive the illnesses) think they need to breed because "it has papers" and it goes on and on.
*sigh*


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## onyx'girl

Wow, thanks for sharing, and fostering. How many of these dogs went to foster, and are they all getting vetted? The burden the Smiths have put on the rescue world is horrible. 
So sad that it had to get to this point before the poor dogs were helped. When you picked up your sick puppy, why didn't you let AC know? 
A good breeder will not sell a sick pup!
Glad your baby survived. To have 17+ litters this year alone is wild, I can't imagine they would have enough buyers...


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## selzer

I think that having an internet site opens a lot more buyers for a breeder, especially if they are making it easy to buy using cc or pay pal. Many of us still want cash or check, and some of us will not ship puppies. 

Buying a pup off the net from a distance, getting it shipped means you are relying on the photos on the website to show what the facility is like. 

Welcome to the board Maverick, there is a lot of good information and people here, people who work their dogs, show their dogs, breed, rescue and most importantly, care out their dogs, the breed and dogs in general.

When I saw the horse -- that looks like it has a completely dislocated leg or broken leg, that just did not bode well for the dogs. It is shocking to hear that many dogs had broken legs, and visible signs of fighting. (My Babsy is now dog-eared, though she was not kenneled with anyone.) Seeing three or four dogs in a pen isn't a good sign. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it is hard to get past that. 

Thank you for opening your home to the dog. I hope you can keep him.


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## Catu

I used to work for a boarding and training center. I only did feeding and cleaning back then and just started my few steps on training on my spare time. 

There were 25 kennels, with between 25 to 35 dogs, almost all of them GSDs and rottweilers. It took me from 8 to 13 to clean, water and feed all the dogs (including a second cleaning of feces after feeding) from 2 to 6 PM I would rotate dogs on the training field to play and run, brush, repair stuff... the day was way too short. And there were other person full time and another part time to do the training.

There were no puppies, who are even more work and more mess.

I can't figure out how to take care of 231 dogs.

ETA: That site screamed puppymill way before being on the news.


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## Maverick

Two rescue agencies in TX have come to pick up the Golden Retrievers and Collies, so I am not sure if they have facilities to house them until the hearing on October 13 or not. The Humane Society of West Texas is handling the many GSD and they do not have facilities to house. We have amazing people in West Texas that stepped forward with tons of donated supplies as well offers to foster every last GSD. Every 231 dogs went through a vet check, and I'm thinking 5 were put into quarantine and 5 are going to surgery. Many of us fosters are personally handling the grooming of these dogs. 

Sadly, I never reported my ill puppy because honestly I didn't know too. I have always owned rescues and just take care of the situation at hand. I really wish I had though, because you don't expect to pay a large price tag for a puppy that is covered in ticks, sick, and a permanent disfiguring nick on the ear. Since this story has broke, many people are reporting that they bought puppies that show severe signs of hip dysplasia and were sick as well. I wouldn't trade him for anything though! He is my 3rd child!! lol

I just picked my foster up from a groomer...... looks total different. Brought tears to my eyes when he ran full speed to me when he saw me!


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## Maverick

Selzer, a cut and paste from an interview.....

Mr. Smith agreed there was an issue with a horse who had an injured leg. "We had been doctoring the horse along and determined it would need to be put down," he said, adding that he planned to make arrangements to do that this week. "They came in before I had a chance."

Hmmmm.............


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## JakodaCD OA

maverick thanks for the update and first hand info..thank you all for the help with these dogs...


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## onyx'girl

Maverick, what a nice report. 
I bet these dogs all thought they've died and gone to heaven! And so sweet to read how your foster reacted when you picked him up from the groomer. I'd love to see picks of your pack(and the foster!)


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## Stevenzachsmom

Thank you Maverick! I really hope you get to keep that foster. Sounds like you both are already in love.

As for the horse - I'm not the horse expert many here may be, but I know when it is time to call the vet. That was no "new" injury. You don't doctor that along. You treat it aggressively under the supervision of a vet. If the injury is not treatable, you do not prolong the horses' suffering.


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## onyx'girl

Facebook page;
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Animal-lovers-against-AlphaTex-Kennels/166838916734476?sk=wall


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## robk

Right or wrong, thats a lot of litters. I feel very bad for the dogs. It also annoys me that people will breed so many dogs at one time when the animal shelters as busting a the seems already. Where are all these dogs suppose to go? Did you notice how many older pups she had for sale? How many of her breeding dogs were from unsold pups that she put to use for her business? Very sad for the dogs and the breeds.


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## Zinc713

This is unreal. 6 months ago I actually did purchase a beautiful black GSD from Alphatex kennels. At this point I am still in shock that I contributed to something like this. I can honestly say that I never once thought that all this was going on, but I am sure that the excitement of my little baby was enough to cloud the reality of the situation. They were very helpful & knowledgeable & kept me updated on my little guys progress. I did take Zinc to the vet about 2 days after I got him & he was given a clean bill of health & is now a big healthy puppy. Looking back now, I do remember making a comment that she had an awful lot of unsold puppies & yet still had females close to giving birth. I don't think they meant for things to get to the point they were at, but there are steps to take to get help & prevent that from happening. 

Seeing the horse is what did it for me & hearing about the remains of the dead dogs. My puppys dad actually died the Thursday before we picked him up, making me wonder if those remains were his. Before you think badly of me since I knew about that, they explained to me how he died & I asked my vet about it to make sure everything was going to be ok with Zinc, she said it was very common in large chested breed dogs. The sad thing about those horses is that they are Mustangs that were "rescued" & then that happens to them.
As horrible as this is I am glad that it happened b/c like Napoleans dad, my husband & I are both military & were offered by the Smiths that if we needed them to they would watch Zinc. Needless to say that wont happen.


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## msvette2u

> It also annoys me that people will breed so many dogs at one time when the animal shelters as busting a the seems already.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Do the math. Even at $200 per puppy, each litter is what, 8-10 puppies? 
I'm sure they asked more than $200, too. $500 or more and 2-3 litters on the ground at once, you don't have to lift a finger to work with that kind of income 

Just clean out the kennels and feed the dogs and what a living...!!! Yet they couldn't even do that much...


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## lar07

Zinc713 said:


> This is unreal. 6 months ago I actually did purchase a beautiful black GSD from Alphatex kennels. At this point I am still in shock that I contributed to something like this. I can honestly say that I never once thought that all this was going on, but I am sure that the excitement of my little baby was enough to cloud the reality of the situation. They were very helpful & knowledgeable & kept me updated on my little guys progress. I did take Zinc to the vet about 2 days after I got him & he was given a clean bill of health & is now a big healthy puppy. Looking back now, I do remember making a comment that she had an awful lot of unsold puppies & yet still had females close to giving birth. I don't think they meant for things to get to the point they were at, but there are steps to take to get help & prevent that from happening.
> 
> Seeing the horse is what did it for me & hearing about the remains of the dead dogs. My puppys dad actually died the Thursday before we picked him up, making me wonder if those remains were his. Before you think badly of me since I knew about that, they explained to me how he died & I asked my vet about it to make sure everything was going to be ok with Zinc, she said it was very common in large chested breed dogs. The sad thing about those horses is that they are Mustangs that were "rescued" & then that happens to them.
> As horrible as this is I am glad that it happened b/c like Napoleans dad, my husband & I are both military & were offered by the Smiths that if we needed them to they would watch Zinc. Needless to say that wont happen.


Please don't beat yourself up too much. It sounds like you didn't know. When the time comes and you are looking at getting another dog(and you happen to decide on a breeder instead of rescue), just PLEASE do your research and inspect their kennels/situation. This is a puppy mill machine and things are out of control. Unfortunately, they are fighting back and currently have a lawyer working for them.


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## onyx'girl

The sad thing is the court will just give them a slap on the hand and let them carry on. Courages abuser...the OH hoarder cases both did not do justice for the victims. I hope many turn up to the hearing, but I know it will be delayed, and delayed and delayed....


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## JakodaCD OA

zinc (love the name!!) agree, don't beat yourself up over it,,glad you got him out of there before this went down and he is healthy.. we'd LOVE to see pictures of him !!!


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## Maverick

Ok don’t hate, but deep down I personally think Alpha Tex had good intentions, and they loved their animals. I just think it got out of hand for them over a period of years, and they couldn’t keep up. Who knows what the courts will decide, but glad this is America and Alpha Tex will have their day in court. I just know that I could not ask for a better personality and temperament in a dog then the one we bought from Alpha Tex. He was sick when we got him, but he is perfect in every way now. He is such a valued member of our family. I just pray that what ever the courts decide, it's in the best interest of these great animals. 

Can’t wait to post a pic of my babies. I just need one of my kids to have time to show me how! (lol)


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## msvette2u

Hoarders always "love" their animals...so do those who's lives depend on them (financially).


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## Stevenzachsmom

Maverick, No hate here, but I do disagree. It got out of control, because they never stopped breeding. I have no sympathy for them. I am happy for your pup and glad that he is everything you hoped for. Even so, he should never have come to you sick. That doesn't say much for the quality of care the animals received. 

I will never be able to get past the horse. I have worked in horse rescue for a long time. I have a horse. I am comfortable treating small problems - like rain rot, scratches, and scrapes. One can afford to wait and watch an insignificant injury or wound. A few years ago, my horses' leg was so swollen she could hardly walk. (No gaping wound. No bone sticking out - just swollen.) I didn't wait a week, or month to call the vet. I called the vet immediately. My horse was on antibiotics. Her leg needed to be cold hosed, irrigated and wrapped. We did everything we needed to do to make sure our horse got well. 

The Alpha Tex horse was given no immediate attention. I don't know if that wound was ever treatable, but the best chance for a good outcome would have been early intervention. There is no reasonable explanation to have allowed that amount of suffering to go on. There is nothing remotely loving about that.


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## msvette2u

How could they call a vet out?? They'd have shut the place down! Are there updates as to how court went?


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## Catu

I feel sorry for hoarders, they are sick people who love their animals and can't control themselves into getting more and more even if they can't provide veterinary care and propper feeding, but hoarding is a mental disease. This people are where they are for the money, because they kept breeding litter after litter even when the older ones were not sold because younger are cuter and easier to sell while those not sold could rotten in the back.

Nop, no sorry for puppy mill and the more educated they are, with professional titles and all, the less sorry I feel for them.


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## msvette2u

Catu said:


> I feel sorry for hoarders, they are sick people who love their animals and can't control themselves into getting more and more even if they can't provide veterinary care and propper feeding, but hoarding is a mental disease. This people are where they are for the money, because they kept breeding litter after litter even when the older ones were not sold because younger are cuter and easier to sell while those not sold could rotten in the back.
> 
> Nop, no sorry for puppy mill and the more educated they are, with professional titles and all, the less sorry I feel for them.


Yes that is what makes me sick. If they are asking $500-800 per puppy (or more) then each puppy could buy a vet visit for the adult dogs, yet instead of spending the fees on vet care/good food/clean cages, etc., they lined their pockets and the dogs suffered.

If they had any CLUE at all they'd have realized that only healthy stock can produce healthy puppies, so they'd spend the $$ on vet care and medications, cleaning systems and nice kennels instead of filthy dirt pens that cannot be disinfected. 
The money was always more important than the dogs' health.


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## selzer

10 dogs cost me $600/month to feed, if you do the math that would be over $12,000/month just for dog food. If they are selling puppies for $500, they need to sell 24 puppies per month just to feed the dogs. They were breeding because they had to breed to feed the dogs. And if you figure 4 litters would provide you with enough to feed the dogs, then you better breed 6 or 7, some pups will die, some will not be sold, some litters will not take. It was out of hand. Yes. I think they were caught between a rock and a hard place. 

They did not call the vet, not because they would have to shut the place down, I doubt it. They would not ask the vet to go into the barns, just to the corral where the horse was. Nobody likes the idea of putting an animal down, and some of us hope for an animal longer than we should. They should have put the horse down. If they could not afford the vet, they should have shot it. There really is no excuse to let the animal suffer. However, many of us do with our pets. 

I do not think these people are hoarders. But I have not seen the state of their living quarters, so they could be. They were a commercial breeder fallen on hard times, turned puppy mill. I think that hoarders actually have to have the animals in their home, to truly be seriously afflicted by that sickness. Cat urine and fecies has to promote dementia. If it is out in the barns, and not in the house, you are not subjected to it constantly. That of course is an opinion and I have nothing to back it up, no studies done, etc. I do not know how you could possibly study something like that. People willing to walk over poop and live with it have a mental disease. I do not know that these people were to that point. They had too many dogs, yes. They may have been ignoring that fact. They may have been weighing their options.

Breeders cannot just call in the local humane society and dump 120 dogs and plan on continuing their operation with the other 100. People would be all over them like flies on poo. Word would go out to dog-people everywhere, and they would have trouble selling any more dogs. 

They could have separated out their older, weaker dogs, or dogs with a problem, and shot and buried them. Then we would not be having this conversation. They would not need four litters on the ground every month just to feed the lot of them. With fewer litters, they would be more likely to sell them all, and with fewer dogs, it would be easier to keep after them all. And provide care beyond feeding, watering, and cleaning poop.

So their major problem was that they did not want to murder dogs that probably did have a number of good years left in them. And they did not want to kill the horse. 

I find the whole think extremely sad. I think they made some poor decisions along the way, and their answer was to breed more in hopes of catching up. I think that even if they do get their dogs back, they are done now.


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## onyx'girl

msvette2u said:


> How could they call a vet out?? They'd have shut the place down! Are there updates as to how court went?


I don't think there is a court date until next week. 
This was on the FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Animal-lovers-against-AlphaTex-Kennels/166838916734476

Lubbock family says they're the victim of Alpha Tex Kennels - KCBD NewsChannel 11 Lubbock


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## msvette2u

> 10 dogs cost me $600/month to feed, if you do the math that would be over $12,000/month just for dog food. If they are selling puppies for $500, they need to sell 24 puppies per month just to feed the dogs.


I think, using Kirkland signature primarily, our bill is around $250/mo. for feed. That's feeding all the rescues, and our dogs, figures run up to 15-20 dogs/mo. to feed. Maybe up to $500 when you add some bags of special food for allergies, etc.
I'd have to do the math to get real figures, but either way they had 250 dogs (roughly) and horses, which cost even more. Using $500/mo. for 25 dogs that's still $5000/mo. for good quality feed for just the dogs. 

Yes they were probably breeding "to feed the dogs" and pay all the other bills, which doesn't make sense since, if they stopped breeding they could afford maybe to feed them! 
But it's obvious it's their "way of life" so maybe they can't figure out normal owners get jobs to feed their dogs...


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## selzer

Without selling puppies they probably could not feed the dogs, even for one month, even by your numbers. These were all pretty big dogs. And usually feeding them crappier food means buying more of it. It may not be a total wash, but my guess is that their monthly dog food bill was far higher than any income they may have had, be it disability, retirement, job. And this was a full time job probably for all three people. 

So, by not breeding, they would be literally inviting the sky to fall.


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## onyx'girl

It fell anyway....and the animals had to suffer until that happened.


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## msvette2u

onyx'girl said:


> It fell anyway....and the animals had to suffer until that happened.


You're right...inexcusable by any math.

Oh and yes, I forgot I feed primarily small dogs  !!!


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## selzer

I don't know that I am trying to excuse it, just understand it.


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## onyx'girl

I understand Selzer, it is a sad situation and there is no excuse. I'm just glad the animals were finally helped.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Well, I sure don't understand. Hate to keep coming back to the horse, but....open wound and bone showing. Sure we love our pets and don't want to put them down. A horse isn't a dog. You can't just amputate a horses' leg and have him be a tripod. If the leg couldn't be saved, it's a no brainer to PTS. That isn't rocket science. I think most of us - who REALLY love our pets, will do the right thing, no matter how badly we want to hold on. Sometimes it means loving the animal enough to let it go. I am still not convinced that these people kept that horse alive because they just couldn't bear to lose it. Nope. Not feeling that at all.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Sue, I didn't mean that I don't understand what you are saying. I mean I don't understand the people involved or the situation. Sorry for lack of clarification.


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## selzer

I never owned a horse. But I can be pretty certain there is no fix for that leg, and they should have put the animal down. I do run a tack room, and I know that people who have horses love them every bit as much as we do our dogs. I agree too that loving them isn't enough, you have to do what needs to be done so a critter doesn't suffer needlessly. 

If I had to wager a guess, if they were planning on putting the animal down like they said, then they may have been waiting to rent a back hoe or some piece of equipment so they could bury the animal. That equipment is sometimes cheaper to rent depending on whether it is weekend or week day. They would have fared no better if they had the rotting remains of a horse on their property and neither of them looked up to digging a big enough hole to put the horse in.


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## Stevenzachsmom

1-800-DEADCOW That's who hauls away dead horses around here. I don't think we are allowed to bury them here - at least not in my county. Heard of some people cremating them. (Sorry for going off topic.)


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## onyx'girl

We have a local horse that is in her 30's. She lives in a junkyard. A facebook page was made by one of her admirer's last year and the AR's stepped up this Spring because she looked so bad...the local paper did a couple articles on her and all H broke loose.
She needed vetting, and the owner along with LE said she was fine. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-Sugar-the-Mattawan-Junkyard-Horse/194073067318083

I took pics of her often(many of the FB ones on her original page are mine) when she was near the road. After AR started in, the owner keeps her in the back so she is no longer visible. I have a feeling she will be put down soon, if she hasn't already...another harsh Winter will be just too much for her. Twisted leg, swollen face were the reasons for AR to step in, and her coat/structure just looked horrible. 

Sorry to get off topic, but the ones that can't speak for themselves need voices...even if some of them are radical. The rad's are weeded out by the sensible ones. Sugar was treated thru funding and volunteers come daily to feed, and make sure she is being taken care of...When she goes to the horse heaven, it will be done humanely I hope. 

My fear was she'd have a stroke and run into all that rusty equipment she was grazing around, or end up on the ground without being able to get up.


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## msvette2u

I worked in law enforcement for 3yrs, and I remember feeling incredulous sometimes at things I saw and muttered to my boss (Chief of Police) that "I just don't get how someone could do something like that", his comment was, "you never will understand, and that's a good thing, we just don't _think_ like that", that is, we don't understand the mindset of people like this, and people who do criminal things because we just aren't that way. We cannot think like that, and we often cannot fathom things they do, because we don't think that way, we are _not_ that way.
That's a good thing. Accept it


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## Stevenzachsmom

One of the most heartbreaking things to me, is when the animals are seized, you finally think they are safe and WHAM! They get returned to the owner. We had a horse come into rescue that had been left in a stall in the barn. The stall was never cleaned. The manure piled up until it was so deep the horses' back touched the barn roof. AC had to cut the side of the barn to get the horse out.

When the horse came into rescue, my kids spent hours using their fingers to pick the feces off the horse. Due to some loop hole, the horse was returned to the owner. That is hard for anybody to grasp. Try explaining it to kids. It stinks.


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## Lullaby

As I sit here and read this thread I have a puppy who I bought from Alphatex approximately 9 months ago laying at my feet. I talked to the breeder, Sandra, several times before I made my decision to purchase a puppy from her. In this time she told me about the people she had working at her kennels with her to help things run smoothly, and would talk to me about the dogs and their varying personalities and quirks. 

About a week and a half before I was due to go pick up my puppy she called me and let me know that the litter was sick, and that they were at the vet with the litter as we spoke. All but two of the puppies in that litter ended up dying of parvo, which she said was because one of her volunteers was also volunteering at a vet clinic that had a litter of puppies that were sick with parvo when the volunteer was there. I've seen litters lost to parvo in my time working with different breeders and vet clinics and have had little to no explanation as to where they caught it, so this still seems reasonable to me.

They had two other litters available at the time, one that had four puppies and one that was a bigger litter, and after apologizing and seeming sincerely upset at the loss of her litter she offered me pick of the other two litters. After a day of talking to my family and looking into the bloodlines of both we settled on a male from the litter of four and I went to get him a week later. They met me at the airport with the puppy, and sat and talked with me about him for a while before handing him and a puppy package over to me.

I have to say Riot is the best puppy I've had. At the airport he wasn't scared of anything and was HIGHLY social. I was, and still am, impressed with how social he was, and how nothing scared him. Loud noises, flapping paper, people of all ages, genders, races. He walked on a leash at a perfect heel after being told to only once or twice, learned his name, come, sit and 'kennel up' all on the layovers on the way home.

Health wise he was a fat, happy puppy. Absolutely nothing wrong with him. As he sits here, a nearly 9 month old puppy, I can say the only problem I have with him is that he chews things still (like all puppies that are still learning things about the world.) Reading some news articles I heard that some of the dogs had bay hip dysplasia, but I suppose we'll see about his hips when he's two. As of now he seems to be in spectacular health and has a fantastic build and personality.

I'm not here to defend or attack Sandra and Mark, I'm just here to tell you my experience with them and the puppy I got from them.


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## selzer

With that many dogs, things can go down hill fast. It is very possible that seven months ago, their place was not in the state it is now. That was prior to her husband's surgeries. If the animals were not starving, or injured, I would excuse with warnings a certain level of neglect -- grooming, toenails, things that are not quite up to par. But they would have had to come up with a dandy of an excuse to get by the horse. Sorry. If I saw that horse, and found out that they had the horse for a number of months, and did not have current veterinary bills/ statements on the horse referring to its current condition, then I would want to get ALL of the animals out of there.

Parvo is scary because it can stay there in the ground, etc for 6 months to 2 years. Bleaching everything can help, but I don't think it is safe to have puppies in that environment again for years.


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## Jax08

WHERE is the information on this horse?!!


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## Emoore

Jax08 said:


> WHERE is the information on this horse?!!


Footage of the horse was in the video. I believe it has been put down.


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## Jax08

What video?


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## Konotashi

It says the video is unavailable.


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## Konotashi

Doing a quick Google search, this was the only photo I could find from the kennel itself. 

This is disgusting. This photo of one Golden puppy twists my stomach. I can't imagine 300+ dogs living like this.


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## JakodaCD OA

there's an FB page going on about them , there have been a few previous buyers who have purchased dogs quite some time ago, more than 7 months, and said the smell would have killed you 

seems to be quite a few health issues, past and present, one guy was told he would be sued if he went public with his problems there..I dunno, it sounds like things in the barns weren't good for a long time, their house dogs look ok, but the others not so much


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## Stevenzachsmom

Slideshow Landing Page - KCBD NewsChannel 11 Lubbock

Jax, the video no longer works, but hopefully this link will. There is a slide show of the kennel. There are a couple pictures of the horse.


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## selzer

Those pictures are gruesome, the coat on the collie, the puppies, lot of really bad scenes. You cannot see the whole of the horse though and why we are so appalled at the horse's condition.


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## msvette2u

So much needless suffering...


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## rebber6218

*Alphatex kennels*

I have a friend who is fostering 2 of the gsd puppies from alphatex they were in pretty bad shape. I'm so proud of him for doing this the puppy's are doing good now!!!!!


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## Stevenzachsmom

Sue is right. The video gave a much better picture of the condition of the horse. I don't remember the exact wording of the horses' injury, but apparently it was an open wound with exposed bone. 

rebber6218...Give your friend a big hug for fostering those puppies. What a great guy.


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## Konotashi

Just a few of those pictures from the kennel are awful. If the people pulling the dogs out of there had to wear masks, then you KNOW the conditions in there are FAR from sanitary. (Well, the pictures say plenty).


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## Dazz

Hey guys! I just wanted to stop by and see how everything is going..Im the owners of the FB page *Animal Lovers Against AlphaTex Kennels*...If your not a member of the page please join!!! Thank you for posting my page's link in your forum!! it means so much to get the word out about these horrible places!!! We are getting updates on the Goldens that were removed from the Puppymill...but the COllie Rescue in houston and the GSD rescue in Central Texas, along with the HSWT wont give updates until after the court trial is over with..only the rescue group and the foster parents know about those dogs ATM...If you have any questions for me feel free to ask! I will do my best to find out for you! We are for the good guys!!! and we pray that these dogs get to go to Forever loving homes where they can be dogs and know what it is to have a loving family!!!!


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## Dazz

Dazz said:


> Hey guys! I just wanted to stop by and see how everything is going..Im the owners of the FB page *Animal Lovers Against AlphaTex Kennels*...If your not a member of the page please join!!! Thank you for posting my page's link in your forum!! it means so much to get the word out about these horrible places!!! We are getting updates on the Goldens that were removed from the Puppymill...but the COllie Rescue in houston and the GSD rescue in Central Texas, along with the HSWT wont give updates until after the court trial is over with..only the rescue group and the foster parents know about those dogs ATM...If you have any questions for me feel free to ask! I will do my best to find out for you! We are for the good guys!!! and we pray that these dogs get to go to Forever loving homes where they can be dogs and know what it is to have a loving family!!!!


 
I dont know how this got to the 1st page... Im new to your forum so Im sorry if it messed anything up


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## onyx'girl

I am a 'like' on your FB page...good to see you here. I hope you will update with the litigation progression.


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## Dazz

onyx'girl said:


> I am a 'like' on your FB page...good to see you here. I hope you will update with the litigation progression.


 

I will be sure to keep everyone updated when I get info that comes in...I do have a update on the Goldens that were taken from the AlpahTex kennels


Gold Ribbon Rescue - Rescuing Golden Retrievers in Central Texas


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## msvette2u

Dazz said:


> Hey guys! I just wanted to stop by and see how everything is going..Im the owners of the FB page *Animal Lovers Against AlphaTex Kennels*...If your not a member of the page please join!!! Thank you for posting my page's link in your forum!! it means so much to get the word out about these horrible places!!! We are getting updates on the Goldens that were removed from the Puppymill...but the COllie Rescue in houston and the GSD rescue in Central Texas, along with the HSWT wont give updates until after the court trial is over with..only the rescue group and the foster parents know about those dogs ATM...If you have any questions for me feel free to ask! I will do my best to find out for you! We are for the good guys!!! and we pray that these dogs get to go to Forever loving homes where they can be dogs and know what it is to have a loving family!!!!


I placed a link on my FB page (for our rescue) and asked my "likes" to like your page! 
A PAW UP Rescue, E. WA | Facebook


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## Dazz

msvette2u said:


> I placed a link on my FB page (for our rescue) and asked my "likes" to like your page!
> A PAW UP Rescue, E. WA | Facebook


 


Thank you! I've added your page to our page's favorites list!! we are trying to get 300 + people to like our page before Oct 13th, I think we can reach that goal


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## Cetan

Don't know if this got posted or not already, but AlphaTex's website is returning a 403 Forbidden error to me. Looks like they shut down their webpage? I certainly hope so.


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## JakodaCD OA

I'm on this FB page as well, thanks for keeping us update !!!


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## Dazz

Cetan said:


> Don't know if this got posted or not already, but AlphaTex's website is returning a 403 Forbidden error to me. Looks like they shut down their webpage? I certainly hope so.


 
my guess on that is they had to shut it down because they were asking for lawyer fee's and bashing america as if it was america's problem they had a puppymill....but thats just my guess on why their page is shut down..I dont think they will ever have the page up again....Im pretty sure and on the hopeful side of things that they will never own another animal again to ever have a website up and running for as long as they live...If they have to ask for help with LAwyer Fee's like they were doing...they can't afford to take care of 300+ dogs


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## Dazz

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm on this FB page as well, thanks for keeping us update !!!


 
Your welcome  right now info is slow because the court date is tomorrow...but when I find something out..I will post it


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## msvette2u

I can't imagine, with all the sick dogs and puppies coming out of there, even before the confiscation, that they'd have too many supporters. Some who may say "oh things got out of hand" but not willing to fork over big bucks to these idiots!


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## Cetan

So what was the outcome of this? I thought the court date was bumped up to the 3rd? Or is it back to today the 13th?

Either way, pictures of that horse should be more than enough for a competent judge to rule seizure of all the animals, I would think. I hope the outcome is they are all taken, and AlphaTex has to foot the cost of living for the animals. No leniency please!


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## JakodaCD OA

the court date is today.


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## onyx'girl

I have a feeling there will be a delay/postponement. Just like in Courage's case, the defendant will ask for a delay. I hope the Judge denies their request.


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## Dazz

onyx'girl said:


> I have a feeling there will be a delay/postponement. Just like in Courage's case, the defendant will ask for a delay. I hope the Judge denies their request.


 

Here is a link to what happened on Oct 13th...this makes my stomach turn..these people are CLEARLY more worried about their money than they are about those dogs..REAL BREEDERS DONT HAVE 300 DOGS...PUPPY MILLS DO!!!...sorry i've been upset about this all day...These people do not need a Jury for this case...but whatever.. 

Jury to determine fate of seized dogs - MyPlainview.com: News


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## Dazz

the Smith's are horrible people and they do not need those dogs back...they need to never own another animal for as long as they live!!! 












*FLOYD COUNTY, TX (KCBD) - **Dogs seized from Alpha Tex Kennel will remain in foster care until a jury hears the case against the owners.*
*On Thursday, Floyd County Justice of the Peace Judge Tali Jackson granted a trial jury for the Alpha Tex Kennel. No trial date has been set at this time.*
*The Floyd County Sheriff, with help from the Humane Society, seized approximately 300 dogs from the Alpha Tex property near Lockney in late September. At the time Alpha Tex co-owner Sandra Smith said the Sheriff over-reacted to "temporary problems." *
*"This is not a puppy mill situation," Smith said. "Yes it outgrew us, it outgrew us in a big way."*
*Alpha Tex has petitioned the court for the return of the animals, which is what led to the Thursday hearing before Justice Jackson. *
*The Kennel's attorney, Paul Holloway argued the Smith's have lost more than $200,000 in revenue because of the seizure. Holloway explained the Kennel got out of hand because Mark Smith, one of the owners, became disabled. He said the affidavit did not elaborate on the poor conditions and didn't show probable for taking their animals. Holloway also explained deputies confronted the Smiths with assault rifles during the seizure. *
*The Sheriff took the stand explaining the Smiths have a trained German Sheppard which is why they had guns, but they were never pointed at the Smiths.*
*The Human Society volunteers were in court listening to the whole conversation, awaiting a decision that did not happen. *
*"It was not about the animals so I guess we will have to see later how this is all going to come out," said Humane Society of West Texas volunteer, Mary Hatfield.*
*Hatfield says they will be in trial every step of the way. *
*"This is not our first rodeo, we have worked with many sheriff's in many counties. Nothing that is happening here is strange or unusual," said Hatfield.*


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## Dainerra

"If the sheriff had gone to Mark and asked him to fix the problem" all this could have been avoided, Holloway said


If you have 300 dogs, and you have a surgery and become unable to work for an extended period of time, why do you need someone else to step in and say "fix this"? Shouldn't it be obvious that you are going to need extra help? Even if you thought it was going to be manageable, it clearly wasn't and any SANE person would have seen that, long before it reached the point where the police stepped in.

Huge difference between a farmer that gets behind at planting/harvest time and this situation.


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## LaRen616

I am just seriously disgusted with these people!

"*The Kennel's attorney, Paul Holloway argued the Smith's have lost more than $200,000 in revenue because of the seizure."*

These people are pigs! Money hungry PIGS that do not give a rats behind about the animals that they have! They see nothing wrong with how those animals were treated, they only care about the money!


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## JakodaCD OA

well of course they've lost revenue, and this is their livelyhood? what about the MANY dogs seized that are HW positive, have other issues, dead dog(s) on the property..I'm sure and HOPING the HSUS will bring all that up at trial.

I honestly think the people had a HECK of a nerve asking for monetary donations to help with legal fees!!!! If they can't pay legal fees they certainly couldn't take care of all those animals,,whether the husband was sick or not

If you read the FB page, there are some past buyers of their dogs, and the majority have had alot of health issues..very sad for those dogs, but they are in a better place now


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## Cetan

*"Justice will be served," Sandra Smith added.*

I hope it will, and end up with the ruling on the side of Humane Society. Hopefully the pictures of the sludge water, the horse's leg, and everything else convinces the jury.

The one time I would actually HOPE for jury duty, if I was living there.


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## onyx'girl

Humane society asking for donations, they should just be billing the Smiths for upkeep until the dogs are adopted out. Though I know the Smiths won't be able to pay the feed bills for their dogs....


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## dfwren

I have one of their dogs, Alaska, I did not go to the kennel because they offered to bring him to me (3hrs away one way), which should have been a clue. Alaska was crippled in one hip so badly that the right hip stuck up. I reported this to them and they said that they would take him back; I said no, to me I rescued him. The vet gave him some glucosamine tablets and pain pills. I started physical therapy on him myself by heat and massage for three months (which he expects all the time now). That was a year ago; he is fine now. They did not offer to pay the vet bills nothing but I did report it and also made it clear to the vet that this was abuse by the breeder to which she took note. He also was very emotionally damaged and it has taken a year for him to trust me; males he didn't have trouble with but females he does and it has taken all this time for him to come to me. I think that shows me abuse by a female; I'm no animal psychologist but that is what I see. I am glad the animals have been seized and I hope they do not give them back.


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## Dazz

*Updates*

80% of the dogs taken away from the Smith's are sick...here is the link


80% of seized dogs being treated for illness - KCBD NewsChannel 11 Lubbock


and here is a horrible article written by a puppy-mill supporter


Kennel situation could have been handled better - MyPlainview.com: Letters To The Editor


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## Dazz

dfwren said:


> I have one of their dogs, Alaska, I did not go to the kennel because they offered to bring him to me (3hrs away one way), which should have been a clue. Alaska was crippled in one hip so badly that the right hip stuck up. I reported this to them and they said that they would take him back; I said no, to me I rescued him. The vet gave him some glucosamine tablets and pain pills. I started physical therapy on him myself by heat and massage for three months (which he expects all the time now). That was a year ago; he is fine now. They did not offer to pay the vet bills nothing but I did report it and also made it clear to the vet that this was abuse by the breeder to which she took note. He also was very emotionally damaged and it has taken a year for him to trust me; males he didn't have trouble with but females he does and it has taken all this time for him to come to me. I think that shows me abuse by a female; I'm no animal psychologist but that is what I see. I am glad the animals have been seized and I hope they do not give them back.


 

You really should call the HSWT and let them know...They will need all they can use to help them win this case


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## Dazz

The AlphaTex Puppy Mills only care about the $$$ they dont care about those dogs at all...Its sad that people can be so heartless and have no soul


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## Stevenzachsmom

Dazz, Thanks for posting those links. I don't know which turns my stomach more - the condition of the dogs, or the crazy kennel supporter.


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## Dazz

Stevenzachsmom said:


> Dazz, Thanks for posting those links. I don't know which turns my stomach more - the condition of the dogs, or the crazy kennel supporter.


 

your welcome, and I know that feeling for sure  ...Both makes me sick...When I heard they were wanting a Jury, my stomach got sick!!! they were in court crying over the money they are losing during this time... That shows the courts they do not care about those dogs 


If you haven't already, join my page on FB...the link to it is in my Siggy and if anyone can please send more :help: to help us and be the voice of dogs who are stuck in puppymills..That would be Great!! We've gotta show these people that we wont stand for puppy mills!!!


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## Catu

Dazz said:


> Kennel situation could have been handled better - MyPlainview.com: Letters To The Editor


_"Breeding dogs requires different feeding and care. Their cages are their homes, and when you take them away they are lost. This is necessary to raise purebred, registered dogs, which these dogs are"_

WHAT???!!!


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## Dazz

Catu said:


> _"Breeding dogs requires different feeding and care. Their cages are their homes, and when you take them away they are lost. This is necessary to raise purebred, registered dogs, which these dogs are"_
> 
> WHAT???!!!


 


yeah that part Im not getting...how is it ok for a dog to live in their cage all their lives just to breed??? that isn't necessary OR neeeded...  
Whoever wrote that clearly doesn't know what they are talking about


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## Dazz

_ I'd like to point out some harsh truth for a minute...._

_If you buy a puppy from a puppymill, you are NOT saving that puppy from the horrors of Puppymills...your helping the puppy mill cause and keeping that puppies parents in cages to keep breeding...in my opinion, your no better than the puppy mill itsself...Sorry, I had to bring that up..there are people on my FB page talking about if the Smiths win their case they would give the Smiths Money to keep the dog they are fostering....  That would be bad!!!! _


_If the Smiths do win the case..GET A LAWYER and sue them for the rights of the dog if you want to keep it so bad..DO NOT GIVE THEM MONEY..._


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## msvette2u

Dazz said:


> _ I'd like to point out some harsh truth for a minute...._
> 
> _If you buy a puppy from a puppymill, you are NOT saving that puppy from the horrors of Puppymills...your helping the puppy mill cause and keeping that puppies parents in cages to keep breeding...in my opinion, your no better than the puppy mill itsself...Sorry, I had to bring that up..there are people on my FB page talking about if the Smiths win their case they would give the Smiths Money to keep the dog they are fostering....  That would be bad!!!! _
> 
> 
> _If the Smiths do win the case..GET A LAWYER and sue them for the rights of the dog if you want to keep it so bad..DO NOT GIVE THEM MONEY..._



I'm always amazed at how widespread this mentality is, not to mention people's views that they "saved" this dog or puppy they purchased for 1k + from a puppy mill or petstore. You didn't "save" anything, you just lined the pockets of a byb/puppy mill/pet store and are you going to "save" the next batch of puppies that comes in, too??

Petstores and puppy mills rely on that mentality, not to mention the one that people "have to have" a "purebred" dog but want no obligation to a rescuer or a _good_ breeder. 

Then pet overpopulation is the natural consequence to the mentality that they can make a few bucks, well, basically reimburse themselves on the purchase fees because, since it "has papers", they can breed it and earn a bunch of money back. We took a surrendered dog not too long ago because he was marking despite the fact he was altered and had been since he was young. The reason he was marking was there was a female in heat in the home, and the woman did not want to alter her because her plan was to breed this dog, despite it being registered to some phony company that registers anything if you have a couple bucks to do it, even Shih Poos and Peke-a-poms, etc. 

SORRY OT, but I could go on all day about the above comments...sigh...


----------



## Dazz

msvette2u said:


> I'm always amazed at how widespread this mentality is, not to mention people's views that they "saved" this dog or puppy they purchased for 1k + from a puppy mill or petstore. You didn't "save" anything, you just lined the pockets of a byb/puppy mill/pet store and are you going to "save" the next batch of puppies that comes in, too??
> 
> Petstores and puppy mills rely on that mentality, not to mention the one that people "have to have" a "purebred" dog but want no obligation to a rescuer or a _good_ breeder.
> 
> Then pet overpopulation is the natural consequence to the mentality that they can make a few bucks, well, basically reimburse themselves on the purchase fees because, since it "has papers", they can breed it and earn a bunch of money back. We took a surrendered dog not too long ago because he was marking despite the fact he was altered and had been since he was young. The reason he was marking was there was a female in heat in the home, and the woman did not want to alter her because her plan was to breed this dog, despite it being registered to some phony company that registers anything if you have a couple bucks to do it, even Shih Poos and Peke-a-poms, etc.
> 
> SORRY OT, but I could go on all day about the above comments...sigh...


 

I hear ya on that...and another thing that makes me sick is people think that puppy mills are ok and that there isn't anything wrong with them....They need to watch this video


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## msvette2u

Catu said:


> _"Breeding dogs requires different feeding and care. Their cages are their homes, and when you take them away they are lost. *This is necessary to raise purebred, registered dogs, which these dogs are*"_
> 
> WHAT???!!!



They forgot "neurotic", "basket case", "fearful", "grossly undersocialized", "sick" and "genetic mess".


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## Cetan

Don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said about these people who breed puppies and try to thrive off the revenue from them. 

However, on the topic of the AlphaTex Puppy Mill...

So the 13th they said they're going for a jury to decide... but where in the trial are we right now? Has it even started?


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## Dazz

Cetan said:


> Don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said about these people who breed puppies and try to thrive off the revenue from them.
> 
> However, on the topic of the AlphaTex Puppy Mill...
> 
> So the 13th they said they're going for a jury to decide... but where in the trial are we right now? Has it even started?


 

I posted a link below with that info of their court dates....they have asked for a Jury now


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## msvette2u

LOL I'd love to see a jury on this...hopefully they are all people who rescued their dogs, or rescuers themselves!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

If the rescuers took pics, as I'm assuming they did (I always watch Animal Cops!) they should speak for themselves, as well as the many many sick dogs that are being dealt with right now..


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## Cetan

JakodaCD OA said:


> If the rescuers took pics, as I'm assuming they did (I always watch Animal Cops!) they should speak for themselves, as well as the many many sick dogs that are being dealt with right now..


They should have, it's evidence for the court to support the seizure. 

That horse on it's own should be justification, but, yeah. I wouldn't be surprised to see AlphaTex on Animal Cops Houston here in 2012!


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## Dazz

JakodaCD OA said:


> If the rescuers took pics, as I'm assuming they did (I always watch Animal Cops!) they should speak for themselves, as well as the many many sick dogs that are being dealt with right now..


 

they have pictures and everything on file for their case...the ONLY way they lose this case is if the Jury doesn't have a heart or soul


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## Dazz

Cetan said:


> They should have, it's evidence for the court to support the seizure.
> 
> That horse on it's own should be justification, but, yeah. I wouldn't be surprised to see AlphaTex on Animal Cops Houston here in 2012!


 

the horse was in fact put down...it couldn't be saved...alot of the dogs were put down as well because they were too sick to save..parvo is nasty..and still 80% of the dogs are still sick and getting vet help


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## Dazz

*Updates*

Here is a link about more info of the AlphaTex puppymill

AlphaTex dog finds new home - MyPlainview.com: News


and here is a video of the Golden's that were taken from the AlphaTex puppymill


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## Karin

That video was just heartbreaking. To see how shell shocked, afraid, and hopeless these poor dogs are just makes me so sad and angry--not to mention all the terrible physical trauma and neglect they've had to endure.

I hope to God that these dogs find loving homes and that the people who did this to them are never allowed to hurt any more dogs again.


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## x0emiroxy0x

I cried when I saw the first dog. Absolutely terrified. The second one had no will to live.  The worst thing of all is that so many people believe that animals have no rights whatsoever. The neighbors that said they were "good people" --- I'm not saying the neighbors are horrible human beings but it is sad that they were not raised in a home that taught them compassion. Any person with compassion would feel for these animals.

My boyfriend had been in criminal justice for the past four years and interned with the San Antonio police department before he graduated college...in San Antonio dogs are merely a source of income for the low income people living in the poverty ridden areas surrounding SA.

He told me that statistics show that people that abuse animals are 5x more likely to act violently towards other people. The law needs to take animal abuse MORE SERIOUSLY! Even the people who don't care about animals -- they should care about themselves and realize these people are dangerous.


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## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I cried when I saw the first dog. Absolutely terrified. The second one had no will to live.  The worst thing of all is that so many people believe that animals have no rights whatsoever. The neighbors that said they were "good people" --- I'm not saying the neighbors are horrible human beings but it is sad that they were not raised in a home that taught them compassion. Any person with compassion would feel for these animals.
> 
> My boyfriend had been in criminal justice for the past four years and interned with the San Antonio police department before he graduated college...in San Antonio dogs are merely a source of income for the low income people living in the poverty ridden areas surrounding SA.
> 
> He told me that statistics show that people that abuse animals are 5x more likely to act violently towards other people. The law needs to take animal abuse MORE SERIOUSLY! Even the people who don't care about animals -- they should care about themselves and realize these people are dangerous.


I think there is a difference between abuse and gross neglect though. Like hoarders, they often feel they are saving the animals, they love them, but the animals are in worse shape than these dogs, feral, emaciated, matted, growths, filthy, etc. But I do not think those people are more likely to hurt humans.


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## Dazz

I did some math on the Smith's check this out...


If the Smiths were selling 4 puppies a week like they said they were at $1,200 bucks each, thats $19,200 a month...and $230.400 a year...Where did their money go to help those dogs and hire help to take care of them if they were making that a year roughly???


with that type of money...they could of hired Kennel help and afford to take every dog to the vet when needed..Talk about a Epic Fail on their part...Sorry sacks of life


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## SummerwoodSoaps

Well you have to take into account that about 25% of that went to taxes for the Federal Gov. 8.25% went to sales tax for texas. Then there is property tax, school, tax. House payment, health inusrance that costs an arm and leg since they are not a big compnay. Feed alone for all those dogs I cannot imagine.

Believe me, money goes fast and just because that was what was brought in does not mean that is what they took home. I do not think these people where rolling in dough. Making a living yes.

You know, I agree with Selzer. I do not think the Smiths just saw $$ instead of dogs here. Something needed to happen because they were in way over their head and chances of them making a swift recovery may have been small, but I don't think these are evil people who get off hurting animals either.


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## Dazz

SummerwoodSoaps said:


> Well you have to take into account that about 25% of that went to taxes for the Federal Gov. 8.25% went to sales tax for texas. Then there is property tax, school, tax. House payment, health inusrance that costs an arm and leg since they are not a big compnay. Feed alone for all those dogs I cannot imagine.
> 
> Believe me, money goes fast and just because that was what was brought in does not mean that is what they took home. I do not think these people where rolling in dough. Making a living yes.
> 
> You know, I agree with Selzer. I do not think the Smiths just saw $$ instead of dogs here. Something needed to happen because they were in way over their head and chances of them making a swift recovery may have been small, but I don't think these are evil people who get off hurting animals either.


 
your forgetting that both Mr and Mrs Smith have full time Jobs ontop of selling puppies. and The smiths CLEALY only care about the money because they were in court talking about how they have already lost over 200 thousand dollars.. they were in it for the money there is no doubt about that..because if they weren't..they wouldn't be in court bitching about how they are losing money during this....The court took away their livily hood...they both work outside of breeding puppies...they have money...they just want more..those dogs uteruses were nothing but ATM's to them..they didn't take the dogs to the vet..if they did...Those dogs wouldn't be sick....80% of them are sick....So their Vet money went to something else...They didn't hire help..because if they had hired help, they wouldn't be in the spot they are now...3 people can not take care of 300 dogs alone without some kind of help..its not possible if you work full time jobs outside of breeding puppies....I've got a friend who has 6 dogs...She's retired and she said taking care of 6 dogs is a full time job in itsself...cleaning, walking, grooming..feeding..playing..vet visits etc...


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## selzer

$19,200/month. Hmmmm. 

Ok, I think 25% tax on income is reasonable, not sure, but that leave $14,400. 

And 8.25% sales tax (I pay mine out of my final price), let's see, that would leave $12,826.

Now if you figure 231 x $50/mo/dog for dog food (conservative), $11,550 which leaves $ 1,276 to split three ways. 

They HAD to have full time jobs besides to feed themselves and to cover their own expenses. At the end of the year they would probably get quite a bit of the income tax back, but that probably wouldn't cover the money paid to vets for say, c-sections, and what have you. 

Even if they charge sales tax over and above the purchase price (reasonable) and they were in arrears on income tax, 19, 200 less 11,500 for food leaves about $7,700 for everything, visa/mastercard percentages, internet fees, advertising fees, licensing fees, repairs, vet costs -- they aren't exactly making money hand over fist. It just appears that they are. 

Now you can say they aren't using the vet for anything. That might be so, but usually you will pay for a c-section if you think you can get 4-6 live puppies out of it. It knocks down the profit, but is financially sound in that otherwise you lose your bitch. One c-section can be $1500. And I am sure they used the vet for other things as well. 

I would bet that they weren't staying above water, even at $1200/puppy. With the help of their outside jobs, they probably built it up to the point where it was doing good, and then with the recent recession, fewer dog sales, some surgeries here and there, and it probably spiraled out of control to the point where they were breeding dogs simply to keep from drowning.


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## Dazz

selzer said:


> $19,200/month. Hmmmm.
> 
> Ok, I think 25% tax on income is reasonable, not sure, but that leave $14,400.
> 
> And 8.25% sales tax (I pay mine out of my final price), let's see, that would leave $12,826.
> 
> Now if you figure 231 x $50/mo/dog for dog food (conservative), $11,550 which leaves $ 1,276 to split three ways.
> 
> They HAD to have full time jobs besides to feed themselves and to cover their own expenses. At the end of the year they would probably get quite a bit of the income tax back, but that probably wouldn't cover the money paid to vets for say, c-sections, and what have you.
> 
> Even if they charge sales tax over and above the purchase price (reasonable) and they were in arrears on income tax, 19, 200 less 11,500 for food leaves about $7,700 for everything, visa/mastercard percentages, internet fees, advertising fees, licensing fees, repairs, vet costs -- they aren't exactly making money hand over fist. It just appears that they are.
> 
> Now you can say they aren't using the vet for anything. That might be so, but usually you will pay for a c-section if you think you can get 4-6 live puppies out of it. It knocks down the profit, but is financially sound in that otherwise you lose your bitch. One c-section can be $1500. And I am sure they used the vet for other things as well.
> 
> I would bet that they weren't staying above water, even at $1200/puppy. With the help of their outside jobs, they probably built it up to the point where it was doing good, and then with the recent recession, fewer dog sales, some surgeries here and there, and it probably spiraled out of control to the point where they were breeding dogs simply to keep from drowning.


 
Well people are thinking they didn't pay Taxes on them...under the table operation..Which wouldn't shock me..and they dont have a family Vet..because if they did..where is he/she during this whole court Trail? If they have a vet who has all health records why isn't that vet in court with them??? Those dogs weren't having puppies Via C-Section


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## Dainerra

you don't have to charge sales tax for dogs sold out of state. 
expenses related to breeding such as c-section, shots, and food are also written off on taxes because they are the price of doing business. My co-workers write off gas for driving puppies to the airport for shipping. They have tax IDs that allow them to not pay sales tax on crates because they turn around and charge the customer for the crate. Again, all perfectly legal write-offs.

I have a co-worker and a boss who breed "commercially". Both said that about 60% of their expenses are completely deducted from their taxes. So, anyone running a commercial operation like this isn't paying the same amount of taxes as your typical hobby breeder.

Sue, do you pay taxes on the full price that you charge customers? IE you charge them $700 and then pay tax on $700? You can charge $700, say that is including tax, and then write the tax papers as $600 sale price and $100 taxes (completely made up numbers because I don't want to do math). Otherwise, you are paying taxes out of your own pocket.


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## JakodaCD OA

well honestly, how much vetting did these dogs probably get?? 80 percent of them are sick,,HW positive,,if they were 'vetted' they obviously weren't HW checked nor given a preventative..

I must admit, the breeders HOUSE dogs, looked in good shape atleast from the pics of them,,looks like they cared more for "them" than the kennel dogs.

No matter what their pay outs were each month, they could certainly have used some of that money to PAY for help to clean those kennels up, get the dogs vetted, and in better shape..

OR they could have asked for HELP from HS, maybe they would have taken the dogs anyway, but atleast it would have shown they were ASKING for help.


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## onyx'girl

There was a local case where a lady rescued wild mustangs for $25 each, with promises of homes. When the promises saw the condition of the horses most all declined to adopt. The lady then had to feed/vet and care for them. She asked for help and got none, until authorities were called because the horses were declining. They eventually were sent back to the place she purchase them from, a couple died(a few came to her pregnant and one of those died along with the foal) It was very sad, and she blamed others for not helping, instead of *HER* taking responsibility~I think she thought she could profit from them, but instead she and the poor horses suffered.
Michigan mustangs need new homes on the range, and quickly | MLive.com


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## selzer

When I talk to the customer I tell them the amount is X. When I write up the bill, I charge X-projected Sales tax as the amount, and then add the sales tax which brings me to X. So if I say it is $1000, the customer pays $1000, if sales tax is 6%, then the government gets $60, and I get $940. But that figure was only for its ease in calculation.

For every expense that you write off, you have to shell out. So if your expenses are higher than your income, you have a loss. The government does not pay you for your loss. So if your expenses = your receipts, then you pay no tax on income from your business. Now here is where you might be a little ahead of the game, if you made 40k. And say your tax on that would be 10k for ease of numbers. If your loss for your business were above 10k, then you do not have to pay all of that 10k. If your losses for your business were 20K, the number does not improve -- no credit is given for the extra 10k. So if your business income was 200K, and your business expenses were 210k, then you will not have to pay some of the income tax on your 40k outside job. But you do have to have receipts for all of that 210k. 

And if you continue in that vein, your chances of being audited go way up, and while you may be doing things legitimately, they may determine that you are indeed a hobby and not a business. Businesses are there to make profit from a tax-perspective, if you continue in business without any profit/income, the case is a hard one to sell. 

Driving the puppies to the airport is a legitimate expense of doing business, as is food and vet care and many other things. 

Running a business like that totally under the table just does not compute. You WILL get caught. It makes no sense.

Oh and that sales tax -- I have a vender's license. I have to pay sales tax on every expenditure. The only thing I would not have to pay sales tax on would be like the crate, that I would turn around and sell to the customer, after marking it up, and then they would have to pay sales tax on it. So I have never used this feature, and it really is no help whatsoever. All of what I do with my dogs, all my expenses, everything I buy for them, I have to pay sales tax on it, have to put the money out for it up front and then at the end of the year when my loss is way more than I could possible be given credit for, and I still ended up paying tax on my regular earnings. 

If these people are in the black to the tune of 5k at the end of each month, then they pay tax on 60k for the year plus whatever other income they make. 

It really does not make that big of a difference, if you do not have to pay some income tax because your loss on the business was over all of your income from the business and then some, then you did spend all that money that way, you are not banking it.


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## selzer

I don't think you can ask for help. Not when you are selling things supposedly for a profit. People have no sympathy whatsoever for breeders. Inviting the humane society in would be inviting disaster. I think that they fell behind on everything when the husband was sick, and probably were hoping that they would be able to get back on track. Sometimes recovering from surgery takes a lot longer than physical recovery. Things spiraled out of control with just two people doing what they could. Who knows. I do not think that they set out to treat the animals poorly.


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## selzer

I am not saying these people are wonderful people, good breeder, or should get their dogs back. I am only contesting the idea that they are making tons of money in the process. Just feeding and housing all those dogs cut way down on their profit, and just feeding, watering, and taking care of poop is a full-time job with that many dogs. So they are not making tons of money.


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## Dazz

JakodaCD OA said:


> well honestly, how much vetting did these dogs probably get?? 80 percent of them are sick,,HW positive,,if they were 'vetted' they obviously weren't HW checked nor given a preventative..
> 
> I must admit, the breeders HOUSE dogs, looked in good shape atleast from the pics of them,,looks like they cared more for "them" than the kennel dogs.
> 
> No matter what their pay outs were each month, they could certainly have used some of that money to PAY for help to clean those kennels up, get the dogs vetted, and in better shape..
> 
> OR they could have asked for HELP from HS, maybe they would have taken the dogs anyway, but atleast it would have shown they were ASKING for help.


 
Because the Smiths have asked for a Jury, That has put on hold some of the dogs who need to see the Vet until the court date...The Vet can't Treat them until the court date...Some need Surgery to fix their issue's


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## Copmom1959

*AlphaTex horror*

This is much worse that you see on the news articles. Much has been withheld due to the possiblity of a trial. The skin condition of the some of the dogs were severe mange, not just a skin condition. A dead puppy found in the kennel, pile of bones with a recently dead puppy thrown on top outside the kennels, several litters of puppies with parvo, puppy that died shortly after seizure that died of severe parasite and worm infestation, drinking water filled with algae and mosquito larvae, feces covered and matted puppies and dogs, kennels covered in feces, 80% of the dogs with medical condtions such as severe heartworms, and much,much more. I hope that all will be made public. The County Attorney in the case doesn't seem to have the welfare of the dogs at heart and it is feared that the animals will be returned to this ****. I hope all that love dogs and especially German Shepherds will be outraged and let the Attorney and the County Commissioners in that county known that this is NOT acceptable. The addresses of these people may be posted on a news release from The Humane Society of West Texas. This did not happen in just a few months!!!!! It was the sheriff of the county that ordered the seizure of the dogs. The Humane Society is simply caring for the dogs, feeding them, providing proper medical care and grooming.


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## Dazz

Copmom1959 said:


> This is much worse that you see on the news articles. Much has been withheld due to the possiblity of a trial. The skin condition of the some of the dogs were severe mange, not just a skin condition. A dead puppy found in the kennel, pile of bones with a recently dead puppy thrown on top outside the kennels, several litters of puppies with parvo, puppy that died shortly after seizure that died of severe parasite and worm infestation, drinking water filled with algae and mosquito larvae, feces covered and matted puppies and dogs, kennels covered in feces, 80% of the dogs with medical condtions such as severe heartworms, and much,much more. I hope that all will be made public. The County Attorney in the case doesn't seem to have the welfare of the dogs at heart and it is feared that the animals will be returned to this ****. I hope all that love dogs and especially German Shepherds will be outraged and let the Attorney and the County Commissioners in that county known that this is NOT acceptable. The addresses of these people may be posted on a news release from The Humane Society of West Texas. This did not happen in just a few months!!!!! It was the sheriff of the county that ordered the seizure of the dogs. The Humane Society is simply caring for the dogs, feeding them, providing proper medical care and grooming.


 
What I can't get is how the Smiths told people that the News Staged it all and lied to make it look fake because all their dogs are "healthy" and well take care for...Again I ask..Where is their family vet with all the health records for every dog and puppy??? I dont think they had one...They couldn't afford to take care of the dogs...Couldn't afford a vet..and are asking for hand outs to afford a lawyer..These people are sick and I hope the Jury throws thousand's of books at them for this...Fines to pay and jail time and to NEVER OWN ANOTHER ANIMAL FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE


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## Cetan

Dazz said:


> What I can't get is how the Smiths told people that the News Staged it all and lied to make it look fake because all their dogs are "healthy" and well take care for...


Gotta think of it from their perspective.

_AlphaTex: "This news agency is about to lose me hundreds of thousands of dollars, get me in trouble with the law, and force me into a mid-life crisis... Uh... uh... THEY ARE FILTHY LIARS HOW DARE THEY TAKE MY BABIES?!?"_

What I can't get, is how they can see, and know, of the declining and deplorable conditions of the kennel, yet, not call for any sort of assistance.

Too focused on the *$$$*.


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## selzer

Call who exactly? Who ya gonna call? 

HSUS is not going to help a puppy mill without them relinquishing the dogs. 

Relinquishing some of the dogs to any shelter would lose them as much reputation as taking out back and shooting them, more maybe. 

BTW, HSUS was asked to come in and help with the rescue/hoarding situation in Ohio (after the dogs were siezed), and they didn't respond, the ASCPA did though. 

Still, who do you call to help you fix up your business so you can continue to sell puppies? 

I am hearing over and over and over that they should have called someone. Can someone please give me an honest answer on who they might call and what the response would have been?


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## Stevenzachsmom

You don't even want my opinion of the HSUS. I don't know that they could have called anybody that would have helped in any way, but to take the dogs. Sure, they would have had to relinquish some or all of the dogs. But - would they not be in a better place legally? Wouldn't there be more sympathy for them? Surrender the animals to get them health care, better living conditions and into loving homes. That would have shown they cared. They wouldn't surrender the animals, because it has always been about the money. They still refuse to admit the truth - that the animals were is sad shape.


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## selzer

Stevenzachsmom said:


> You don't even want my opinion of the HSUS. I don't know that they could have called anybody that would have helped in any way, but to take the dogs. Sure, they would have had to relinquish some or all of the dogs. *But - would they not be in a better place legally? Wouldn't there be more sympathy for them? * Surrender the animals to get them health care, better living conditions and into loving homes. That would have shown they cared. They wouldn't surrender the animals, because it has always been about the money. They still refuse to admit the truth - that the animals were is sad shape.


Only if they get caught. Until they were caught, they were in a much better place, legally and sympathy wise by not asking organization for help. 

If they were able to care for the number of dogs they had -- no violations, called in some shelter or animal control to tell them that they are to their limit and need for them to take some dogs, there would be no sympathy for that. AC would probably tell them the shelter is full. And their name would be all over the internet and everywhere as someone trying to dump their dogs. Once there were violations and things got worse, calling them in would be like asking for the traffic cop to write you a ticket. 

I think that like in hoarding cases, people living in the situation do not see how bad it is. They no longer smell the poop. They avoid thinking about the puppies with parvo, and chalk it up to we will lose some. I think those people truly believe that the situation is not as bad as everyone is saying. And they would be unlikely to call in help if they felt they were meeting the needs of their dogs.


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## Dazz

They are worthless in my opinion...they should NEVER be aloud to ever own dogs again!!! they shouldn't even be aloud to own fish!!!


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## Dazz

selzer said:


> Only if they get caught. Until they were caught, they were in a much better place, legally and sympathy wise by not asking organization for help.
> 
> If they were able to care for the number of dogs they had -- no violations, called in some shelter or animal control to tell them that they are to their limit and need for them to take some dogs, there would be no sympathy for that. AC would probably tell them the shelter is full. And their name would be all over the internet and everywhere as someone trying to dump their dogs. Once there were violations and things got worse, calling them in would be like asking for the traffic cop to write you a ticket.
> 
> I think that like in hoarding cases, people living in the situation do not see how bad it is. They no longer smell the poop. They avoid thinking about the puppies with parvo, and chalk it up to we will lose some. I think those people truly believe that the situation is not as bad as everyone is saying. And they would be unlikely to call in help if they felt they were meeting the needs of their dogs.


 
This isnt even hoarding...Their house is clean..the house dogs are well taken care of...This is a classic case of a puppy mill. and all they care about is the money that those poor dogs brought in...$$$$$$$$$ is all they give 2 ****s about...


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## CelticGlory

What I don't understand is if a state has a Animal Cop division (Houston SPCA, Miami-Dade SPCA, etc.), why they wouldn't give them authority for the rest of the state or set something else up? I'm sure AlphaTex had to have been reported to regular AC before?? I know in Pinellas County, even if we don't have an Animal Cops division we still have something setup to deal with animal abuse cases.


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## Dazz

CelticGlory said:


> What I don't understand is if a state has a Animal Cop division (Houston SPCA, Miami-Dade SPCA, etc.), why they wouldn't give them authority for the rest of the state or set something else up? I'm sure AlphaTex had to have been reported to regular AC before?? I know in Pinellas County, even if we don't have an Animal Cops division we still have something setup to deal with animal abuse cases.


 
Texas does have a puppy mill law now..Perry signed it into order...AlphaTex has never been reported before because people were to scared to say anything because the Smith's threanted to sue them if they did


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## Copmom1959

*Humane Society Shelters.*

Just a note.....Most shelters that have "Humane Society" in their name are in no way affiliated with HSUS. They are usually independently run and are struggling to survive. If fact, HSUS was just found to have contributed nothing of their $165 million dollars collected this year to help local shelters. One shelter where I live was in bad shape financially and had asked them for help to buy food and they were turned down. That shelter is The Humane Society of Odessa. I hope everyone thinks twice before they make contributions to HSUS and gives the money to a local shelter instead.


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## Copmom1959

*AlphaTex at fault*

Another shelter in my town has helped many,many people with food and other services such as immunizations. One thing the AlphaTex could have done was not let their place get overpopulated to begin with. It's very simple......If you have too many puppies that haven't sold, then don't let you dogs continue to breed. The fault of this situation lies totally on the shoulders of AlphaTex. No one should have almost 300 dogs unless they have a full staff that can care for the dogs. The shelter owner can control how many litters their dogs have and unless the almighty dollar is more important to them that the dogs themselves they will keep their numbers where they can responsibly care for them. This is not the Smith's only means of a living. They work outside the home too. NO excuses for the condition these poor sick dogs and puppies were in.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Copmom59, Thank you for highlighting that info about HSUS. Many people are unaware that their local humane societies are NOT affiliated with the HSUS. I only support shelters in my area. I feel I am helping the animals where I live and I can keep an eye on the shelter to see if I think it is worthy of my support.


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## Lilie

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I skimmed many. I don't see any posts asking for volunteers for fostering of the dogs that were seized. Have they all found homes?


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## Copmom1959

*fostering AlphaTex dogs*



Lilie said:


> I haven't read every post in this thread, but I skimmed many. I don't see any posts asking for volunteers for fostering of the dogs that were seized. Have they all found homes?


 
Yes, they are all being fostered in loving homes, have been groomed and their medical needs are being seen to. The many parvo pups are being treated and will hopefully survive. I pray that the DA in this county does the right thing for these neglected dogs.


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## Lilie

Copmom1959 said:


> Yes, they are all being fostered in loving homes, have been groomed and their medical needs are being seen to. The many parvo pups are being treated and will hopefully survive. I pray that the DA in this county does the right thing for these neglected dogs.


 
May I ask where you are getting your information from?


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## Copmom1959

Lilie said:


> May I ask where you are getting your information from?


We are fostering some of them.


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## Lilie

Copmom1959 said:


> We are fostering some of them.


What I meant was, is there a direct agency we can contact if we were interested in assisting the dogs that have been seized? I wasn't requesting information regarding your personal involvement.


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## Copmom1959

Lilie said:


> What I meant was, is there a direct agency we can contact if we were interested in assisting the dogs that have been seized? I wasn't requesting information regarding your personal involvement.


Absolutely. If you want to help with the care of these dogs you can contact The Humane Society of West Texas. They have a fb page where you can post and they can give you information. I know they would appreciate any help.


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## selzer

Copmom1959 said:


> Another shelter in my town has helped many,many people with food and other services such as immunizations. One thing the AlphaTex could have done was not let their place get overpopulated to begin with. It's very simple......If you have too many puppies that haven't sold, then don't let you dogs continue to breed. The fault of this situation lies totally on the shoulders of AlphaTex. *No one should have almost 300 dogs* unless they have a full staff that can care for the dogs. The shelter owner can control how many litters their dogs have and unless the almighty dollar is more important to them that the dogs themselves they will keep their numbers where they can responsibly care for them. This is not the Smith's only means of a living. They work outside the home too. NO excuses for the condition these poor sick dogs and puppies were in.


It was 231 dogs I understand. One of the things that breeders in general are wary of is that often these things are over-exaggerated rather then under reported or reported as fact, by saying almost 300 when speaking of 231, you are adding to that perception. 

If you over report one thing, why not other things. If you are using the larger number to make it look even worse, than that may be true of other things you are saying. 

Why not say over 200 if do not want to be precise. I agree that over 200 does not sound as out there as almost 300. But, those of us who care for dogs know that it would be very difficult for three people to properly care for even 200 dogs and the statement does not lend itself to question other things you are saying.


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## Copmom1959

selzer said:


> It was 231 dogs I understand. One of the things that breeders in general are wary of is that often these things are over-exaggerated rather then under reported or reported as fact, by saying almost 300 when speaking of 231, you are adding to that perception.
> 
> If you over report one thing, why not other things. If you are using the larger number to make it look even worse, than that may be true of other things you are saying.
> 
> Why not say over 200 if do not want to be precise. I agree that over 200 does not sound as out there as almost 300. But, those of us who care for dogs know that it would be very difficult for three people to properly care for even 200 dogs and the statement does not lend itself to question other things you are saying.


Actually is was way more that 231. That's not my perception, that was the count at the seizure. Much closer to 300 than 200,


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## Dazz

Copmom1959 said:


> Just a note.....Most shelters that have "Humane Society" in their name are in no way affiliated with HSUS. They are usually independently run and are struggling to survive. If fact, HSUS was just found to have contributed nothing of their $165 million dollars collected this year to help local shelters. One shelter where I live was in bad shape financially and had asked them for help to buy food and they were turned down. That shelter is The Humane Society of Odessa. I hope everyone thinks twice before they make contributions to HSUS and gives the money to a local shelter instead.


 
I always support my local shelter..I know they need it more


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## selzer

Copmom1959 said:


> Actually is was way more that 231. That's not my perception, that was the count at the seizure. Much closer to 300 than 200,


If the count at the siezure was 231, what happened to the others, what others are there? I thought they took them all.


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## Copmom1959

selzer said:


> If the count at the siezure was 231, what happened to the others, what others are there? I thought they took them all.


I said the count was higher than 231. I'm not going to argue with you. All I am trying to do is bring awareness to the horrible conditions these dogs were in. I figured a place to do that was a place where people loved German Shepherds. All those involved in this are horrified at what they saw that day and just want to save these magnificent dogs. Maybe I'm in the wrong place to get that support for these great precious babies.


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## selzer

Copmom1959 said:


> I said the count was higher than 231. I'm not going to argue with you. All I am trying to do is bring awareness to the horrible conditions these dogs were in. I figured a place to do that was a place where people loved German Shepherds. All those involved in this are horrified at what they saw that day and just want to save these magnificent dogs. Maybe I'm in the wrong place to get that support for these great precious babies.


The last official word I heard was that the count was 231, which is closer to 200 than 300 and still an awful lot of dogs. If you have an different official count, please let me know what it was and where it comes from. 

There is nothing more irritating than people trying proclaim that the entire site is not the right place because one individual says something you don't agree with.


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## Lilie

Copmom1959 said:


> . All those involved in this are horrified at what they saw that day and just want to save these magnificent dogs. Maybe I'm in the wrong place to get that support for these great precious babies.


If you read through the different threads on this forum, you'll find you'd be hard pressed to find a forum that supports the GSD more than the members do here. 

There is a responsiblity of credibility when reporting facts regarding this seizure. Personally, I'm interested in the facts. I've already formed an opinion regarding the breeder. That won't change if the count is 231 or 300.


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## selzer

Lilie said:


> If you read through the different threads on this forum, you'll find you'd be hard pressed to find a forum that supports the GSD more than the members do here.
> 
> There is a responsiblity of credibility when reporting facts regarding this seizure. Personally, I'm interested in the facts. I've already formed an opinion regarding the breeder. That won't change if the count is 231 or 300.


You said it better than I. It does not change how you look at the breeder. But it can change your opinion of how accurate the person reporting is being and whether there is a reason for that.


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## Copmom1959

selzer said:


> You said it better than I. It does not change how you look at the breeder. But it can change your opinion of how accurate the person reporting is being and whether there is a reason for that.


My reason for reporting the facts is to save the lives of these beautiful dogs. Those that are working hard and are emotionally exhausted from trying to save these beautiful dogs and bring them back to health really don't need to be insulted and beat over the head for what we are trying to do. Thank you anyway.


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## selzer

Copmom1959 said:


> My reason for reporting the facts is to save the lives of these beautiful dogs. Those that are working hard and are emotionally exhausted from trying to save these beautiful dogs and bring them back to health really don't need to be insulted and beat over the head for what we are trying to do. Thank you anyway.


Do you have a more current number than 231?


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## BowWowMeow

Is this thread about the dogs who were seized or about splitting hairs on numbers and defending indefensible breeding practices? I think we can all agree that whether it was 231 or 321, they had too many dogs and did not care for them properly.

I am not sure, Sue, why you feel the need to be so argumentative? Let's remember who really matters here...THE DOGS!


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## Emoore

BowWowMeow said:


> Is this thread about the dogs who were seized or about splitting hairs on numbers and defending indefensible breeding practices? I think we can all agree that whether it was 231 or 321, they had too many dogs and did not care for them properly.
> 
> I am not sure, Sue, why you feel the need to be so argumentative? Let's remember who really matters here...THE DOGS!


The dogs matter most, but the truth matters a whole heap of a lot. "They said" and "I heard" don't make very good witnesses and if I'm going to condemn somebody, I want to do it based on facts, not 3rd hand estimations. Sorta like people going to rally and writing their congressman to support a bill they've never even read.


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## selzer

I think it is about some 231 dogs that were siezed, the people are trying to get them back, and for some reason, people do not think that the evidence is strong enough to stand up. I wouldn't think, with the pictures of the horse and the other pictures, there would be any question about that. But if there is a question, I do not think that people should be trying to rile people up with over-exaggerated numbers. That casts the shadow of doubt on everything they say. It is certainly bad enough without inflating it. 

Why not say almost a thousand?


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## Stevenzachsmom

I don't really want to get in on this. But...here's my 2 cents. I pulled up some of the news links about the kennel. Every link seemed to give a different number of how many dogs were actually seized - 300, almost 300, 231, over 250, 260, over 200. Now I couldn't tell you an "official" number. I'm not sure there is one. Maybe an official number will come out during the trial. It is safe to say - somewhere between 200 and 300 dogs. That's a lot of dogs, no matter how you look at it.

I don't live anywhere Texas and I'm not likely to get an first hand information about any of this. I like hearing from Dazz and Copmom1959, because they are up close and personal to this. Personally I think I can learn more from them, than the internet news sites. Now Copmom1959 is gone, so I won't be hearing anything more from her.

All she wanted was to gain support for the dogs. I don't see how the "official" number of dogs should interfere with that goal. Again - just my 2 cents.


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## selzer

If she is gone because one person asked a question about the number of dogs, that is about the most messed up reason to leave a website that I have ever heard of.


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## Stevenzachsmom

I give up. Good luck dogs - how ever many of you there are. Dazz, Copmom1959 - anything I can do to help - PM me. Connie, you have my email.

Jan


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## JakodaCD OA

I wish I lived closer


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## Emoore

JakodaCD OA said:


> I wish I lived closer


I do live closer, doesn't do any good. The dogs are in limbo pending a jury trial. All of us at Austin GSD Rescue were on standby to take dogs, but now it looks like we'll be waiting until the trial is over. Meanwhile, my understanding is that they're in temporary foster homes, not shelter pens.


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## JakodaCD OA

I'm glad they are safe for the moment..and glad so many have jumped in to help out


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## onyx'girl

Maybe the total numbers are hard to equate because of the DEAD ones, or bones of pups/dogs? I can't imagine having to come on that scene and help the live ones, then see what was _not_ able to be helped.

I hope and pray that the dogs that are surviving this will find great forever homes and the Smiths will no longer be able to breed, much less own more than a couple dogs for the rest of their lifetime...that is generous. 
I truly hope they will get some jail time or at least have to pay for the vetting/housing of the dogs until adopted to not drain the rescue/AC of funds to help others in the future.


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## Emoore

I believe there was only one dead one. Of course, one is too many. 

The only firm number I can get is 231. I keep hearing "Over 200," "around 250," and "nearly 300" but the only real number I've ever heard is 231.


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## Dazz

Emoore said:


> I believe there was only one dead one. Of course, one is too many.
> 
> The only firm number I can get is 231. I keep hearing "Over 200," "around 250," and "nearly 300" but the only real number I've ever heard is 231.


 
There is more dead that just one...they found one dead one at the kennels...the others died days later from worms and or parvo..there was 300+ dogs..but since alot of them have died now that number has dropped...80% of them are sick


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## Dazz

Emoore said:


> I do live closer, doesn't do any good. The dogs are in limbo pending a jury trial. All of us at Austin GSD Rescue were on standby to take dogs, but now it looks like we'll be waiting until the trial is over. Meanwhile, my understanding is that they're in temporary foster homes, not shelter pens.


 
they are in Foster homes


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## Dazz

*More unbelievable links*

Here is yet some more crap posted links are below..they will blow your mind with the lack of homework these people have done about this...EVERYONE but them are in the wrong with this...these people make me sick....They clearly only care about the MONEY 


Animal Lovers Who Support Alpha Tex Kennel - Wall | Facebook



The hate, the illegal seizing and civil liberty abuse continues in Texas!!! Top Cats Roar…


Alpha Tex Kennel to have a jury!!! Top Cats Roar…


and I'd like to add this,
I would like to state that We here at Animal lovers against AlphaTex Kennels Have NEVER made Threats or shown any possible violence towards anyone person..Anyone who thinks that we have are Delusional


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## selzer

When it comes to critters, particularly dogs, being abused or neglected, there are plenty of statements flying about that some might consider threats. I remember someone posted somewhere that if they get the dogs back they will drive to their home and bar them from their driveway, or something similar. It is all a bunch of hot air, but I do not know how any type of public message board can prevent or control its people so far as to ensure that nothing threatening has been said.

Reading the all cats roar page, the hate that is spewed there, wow. But if someone lost their dogs unjustly, then there would be some serious hard feelings going on. And, I think that people generally feel as though they are being treated unjustly. If you could hear my sister go on about the ticket she got going 10mph over the limit, with two babies in car seats, parked in the fast lane, and jawing in the cell phone -- well, just try to tell her that the officer may have had a point. 

I do not understand the need for the people who support the seizure to need a message board and to rally the troops so to speak. It seems like their case is pretty solid. I can see why the kennel might be trying to rally their supporters. I do not understand why anyone would be concerned about a jury trial. A judge has pretty much seen it all, and has probably seen worse than this case and might even give these people a break if they approach it well, but I would think that a jury would be harder to convince that the photos are not all that bad. 

I think that judge or jury, I think that they will come up with a verdict that is just without all the added background noise.

I guess I understand updates on the dogs, how they are doing, and whether any money or supplies or foster homes are needed, the rest is pretty much a done deal. The photos have been taken and are evidence -- the dogs are out of there, so there cannot be new evidence.


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## Emoore

selzer said:


> I do not understand the need for the people who support the seizure to need a message board and to rally the troops so to speak.


I kind of agree with this. There is a need to let people who want to help, know how they can help, either by donating or fostering or whatever. Beyond that I really don't see the need for a bunch of messages and boards to keep emotions high and keep people upset. In a situation like that it's too easy for "he said" and "I heard" to become gospel truth which does no good. There will be a trial, and people's emotional posts on a message board won't do one whit of good one way or another. Meanwhile, if everybody who's so all-fired upset about the situation would just make a good-sized donation to their local rescue group or take in a foster dog. . .


----------



## Dazz

selzer said:


> I do not understand the need for the people who support the seizure to need a message board and to rally the troops so to speak. It seems like their case is pretty solid. I can see why the kennel might be trying to rally their supporters. I do not understand why anyone would be concerned about a jury trial. A judge has pretty much seen it all, and has probably seen worse than this case and might even give these people a break if they approach it well, but I would think that a jury would be harder to convince that the photos are not all that bad.


 
well the page made isn't just for the Seizure of these dogs from the AlphaTex puppy mills..but for ALL puppy mills out there...There is NO need for them...AlphaTex just happened to give the page its name...honestly no ones really knows right now if the case is solid or not because there is no court date right now...Limbo isn't a good place for these dogs to be...the way I see things, if people dont support the rescue of these dogs..then they are on the BAD guys side...The Bad guys want a jury because they think the jury will cut them some slack..and if the jury doesn't love animals and they dont have a heart....they will get their dogs back..then that will prove there is NO justice for animals and that its ok to treat them like crap..and the photo's you guys have seen might not look that bad...the bad photo's are aloud online until AFTER the court is over with...If people support the Smiths' then they are just as bad as the Smiths


----------



## selzer

Dazz said:


> *well the page made isn't just for the Seizure of these dogs from the AlphaTex puppy mills..but for ALL puppy mills out there*...*There is NO need for them*...AlphaTex just happened to give the page its name...honestly no ones really knows right now if the case is solid or not because there is no court date right now...Limbo isn't a good place for these dogs to be...the way I see things, if people dont support the rescue of these dogs..then they are on the BAD guys side...The Bad guys want a jury because they think the jury will cut them some slack..and if the jury doesn't love animals and they dont have a heart....they will get their dogs back..then that will prove there is NO justice for animals and that its ok to treat them like crap..and the photo's you guys have seen might not look that bad...the bad photo's are aloud online until AFTER the court is over with...If people support the Smiths' then they are just as bad as the Smiths


So when you finish with the people with hundreds of dogs, will you move on to people with under a hundred dogs? 50 dogs? 20 dogs? 10 dogs? Anyone who breeds dogs? 

I think that ANYONE who breaks the law when it comes to providing adequate care to their pets should be prosecuted. Whether they are selling puppies or not is besides the point. I would never go after someone BECAUSE they sell puppies. Only if they are treating their dogs in such a way that those dogs are neglected and suffering physical complaints because of it. 

There is way too much leeway in what people call a puppy mill and what people call a commercial breeder, or a hobby breeder or a back yard breeder, or simply a breeder. The crime is not allowing animals to reproduce. And it is not selling the progeny of the animal that you own. The crime is the treatment or lack of care. 

If that makes me a BAD guy, then ok. I have been called worse things.


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## Emoore

Dazz said:


> The Bad guys want a jury because they think the jury will cut them some slack..and if the jury doesn't love animals and they dont have a heart....they will get their dogs back..then that will prove there is NO justice for animals and that its ok to treat them like craps


Do you honestly think they're going to get 12 people together who hate puppies so much that they'll ignore factual evidence? Twelve people who don't like puppies? really?

I've seen the photos taken by the rescuers, the ones that aren't available online. I'm not real worried these people are going to get the dogs back. I'm a little worried they'll grow old in limbo, but there's not a solitary thing I can do about it; joining a facebook page isn't going to advance the trial date. Meanwhile, last time I checked petfinder there were over a dozen purebred GSDs in DFW kill shelters alone. 4 in Collin County Animal Services. I just wish half the people who join internet forums to henpeck AlphaTex to death would go foster a fracking dog.


----------



## Dazz

selzer said:


> So when you finish with the people with hundreds of dogs, will you move on to people with under a hundred dogs? 50 dogs? 20 dogs? 10 dogs? Anyone who breeds dogs? .


 
NOpe not agaisnt all breeders...there are REAL breeders and BAD breeders..we are against the BAD ones..There is a TRUE difference between a puppymill breeder and a Real breeder




Emoore said:


> Do you honestly think they're going to get 12 people together who hate puppies so much that they'll ignore factual evidence? Twelve people who don't like puppies? really?
> 
> I've seen the photos taken by the rescuers, the ones that aren't available online. I'm not real worried these people are going to get the dogs back. I'm a little worried they'll grow old in limbo, but there's not a solitary thing I can do about it; joining a facebook page isn't going to advance the trial date. Meanwhile, last time I checked petfinder there were over a dozen purebred GSDs in DFW kill shelters alone. 4 in Collin County Animal Services. I just wish half the people who join internet forums to henpeck AlphaTex to death would go foster a fracking dog.


didn't say the page would advance the trial...Just being a supporter against puppy mills and letting your voice be heard is a good thing..doesn't matter where the support is at..I've seen those photo's too..but even some of the people are worried they will get their dogs back..and I've got a dog who is a rescue dog...and about 85% of the people on my page are either foster dogs or have rescue dogs and some do both...


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> Do you honestly think they're going to get 12 people together who hate puppies so much that they'll ignore factual evidence? Twelve people who don't like puppies? really?


 
look at the Casey Anthony case..the Jury let her walk free...12 people who hated children..they had solid proof that she killed her daughter...yet they let her walk away a free woman and No justice for her daugher


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I think if they show the pictures, that will go a loooong way in what the outcome will be, HOPEFULLY! pictures don't lie


----------



## dfwren

What has happened with this case? Have they had the trial; I get nothing about it up here in the panhandle.


----------



## Dazz

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think if they show the pictures, that will go a loooong way in what the outcome will be, HOPEFULLY! pictures don't lie


I've got pictures from a unknown source..If I could post them here?



dfwren said:


> What has happened with this case? Have they had the trial; I get nothing about it up here in the panhandle.


 
There is no word on the case yet..The Smiths have asked for a jury. so its taking longer now than it should and the dogs are in limbo and the foster parents want to give these poor dogs forever homes and can't until court is done and over with


----------



## Dazz

*PLEASE EMAIL OR WRITE A LETTER TO LET THE JUDGE KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS*


Floyd County Judge Penny Golightly, Floyd Co. Courthouse, 105 Main, Floydada, TX 79235.


Judge Golightly @ [email protected] Let her know how you feel



Settlement? Campaign started to thwart reported $200,000 AlphaTex deal - MyPlainview.com: News


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## JakodaCD OA

let me ask the higher ups about the pics,,not sure,,but I am definately emailing RIGHT NOW


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## Dazz

JakodaCD OA said:


> let me ask the higher ups about the pics,,not sure,,but I am definately emailing RIGHT NOW


 
Ok please keep me posted..if not I can send them to you in a private email


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## Stevenzachsmom

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/create.html

Dazz, Has anyone started an online petition? It could be posted and shared on facebook and sent via email, to those that don't have facebook. It can be an excellent tool. We have used the Care2 petition in the past.


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## Dazz

Stevenzachsmom said:


> http://www.thepetitionsite.com/create.html
> 
> Dazz, Has anyone started an online petition? It could be posted and shared on facebook and sent via email, to those that don't have facebook. It can be an excellent tool. We have used the Care2 petition in the past.


 
Im not really sure how to make one of those. Im going to make one and share it when Im finished..I've got some time to work on it before i've gotta go back to my college studies..Thank you for sharing the link with me


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## Emoore

There's a legal petition circulating in the county-- the kind that registered voters in the county sign and elected officials such as judges, prosecutors, and commissioners actually pay attention to. Not sure how much attention gets paid to online petitions that can theoretically be signed by children, dogs, and dead people but it can't hurt.


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> There's a legal petition circulating in the county-- the kind that registered voters in the county sign and elected officials such as judges, prosecutors, and commissioners actually pay attention to. Not sure how much attention gets paid to online petitions that can theoretically be signed by children, dogs, and dead people but it can't hurt.


 
well most of us that want to sign it can't because its not online, I made a online one..having 2 out there couldn't hurt


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## Dazz

*Sign it!*

Here is the online Petition



http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop-alphatex-puppy-mill/


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

Dazz said:


> I've got pictures from a unknown source..If I could post them here?


You can post them to your Facebook page and then post a link here.


----------



## Emoore

If you don't know the source, can you verify that they're actually AlphaTex?


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## Stevenzachsmom

Dazz had PM'd me the pictures and I had seen some of them before, associated with AlphaTex. I'd have to research where. One was of that collie with the horrible coat. Maybe it was already posted here?


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> If you don't know the source, can you verify that they're actually AlphaTex?


 
Im saying "unknown source" because she doesn't want me to give her name out..I know who gave me the pictures...but no one else will due to her wishes. does she work for the HSWT..yes she does...but thats all I can say....I could post the pictures here..but I would really like a OK from a higher up MOD of this forum before I do so

Our page Animal lovers against AlphaTex Kennels | Facebook Is going to be on the Lubbock news tonight atn 10pm TExas time..the link to the news report will be posted on our page after it airs


----------



## Emoore

Dazz said:


> Im saying "unknown source" because she doesn't want me to give her name out..I know who gave me the pictures...but no one else will due to her wishes.


Oh. An anonymous source. Cool. Just making sure.


----------



## msvette2u

Yeah...was just thinking you probably meant "anonymous" rather than "unknown".


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> Oh. An anonymous source. Cool. Just making sure.





msvette2u said:


> Yeah...was just thinking you probably meant "anonymous" rather than "unknown".


 

yup thats what I meant..sorry that it came out wrong..


----------



## Dazz

Here is my FB and petition on the news  since the news aired..we have gotten more people to sign the petition!!!! the numbers are still going up!!!


Animal Lovers Petition Possible Floyd County Settlement For Kennel Owners - EverythingLubbock.com


----------



## Cetan

Dazz said:


> look at the Casey Anthony case..the Jury let her walk free...12 people who hated children..they had solid proof that she killed her daughter...yet they let her walk away a free woman and No justice for her daugher


I don't want to get into it, since it's off-topic and obviously a charged topic, but our justice system operates under a system of "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt". There were a few concrete questions the jury would ask, and could not answer adequately with the evidence presented. Therefore, there's reasonable doubt, therefore, not guilty. Despite what opinions are. She doesn't have to prove herself innocent. People have to prove her guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.


Tying that into our topic at hand here, I just hope the prosecution in this case has a definitive link. It's likely, I think, since who was the direct caretaker for the puppies? The Smiths. Who is responsible for the neglect of the animals? The Smiths. It's likely the prosecution can say _"The condition of these animals was directly caused by the neglect of AlphaTex, because X, Y and Z did not happen." _Again, the Smiths as of right now are completely innocent. They have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I fired off an email to the Judge. Just remember that if you do, be respectful, and don't come across overly emotional. Say you want real justice, guilty or innocent. I basically asked her to stick with the justice system, and put them on trial. No matter the outcome of the case.

Obviously, I think they're as guilty as the sky is blue. Of course I hope they get years of jail time and are prohibited from ever owning animals again, but... again, I am just an opinion.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop-alphatex-puppy-mill/

Here is the link to the petition. I already signed.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

"There's a legal petition circulating in the county-- the kind that registered voters in the county sign and elected officials such as judges, prosecutors, and commissioners actually pay attention to. Not sure how much attention gets paid to online petitions that can theoretically be signed by children, dogs, and dead people but it can't hurt."

Don't underestimate the power of an online petition. Online petitions are capable of raising awareness on the international level. They bring attention to issues that some people would prefer were swept under the rug. 

Good job Dazz!


----------



## Dazz

Stevenzachsmom said:


> "There's a legal petition circulating in the county-- the kind that registered voters in the county sign and elected officials such as judges, prosecutors, and commissioners actually pay attention to. Not sure how much attention gets paid to online petitions that can theoretically be signed by children, dogs, and dead people but it can't hurt."
> 
> Don't underestimate the power of an online petition. Online petitions are capable of raising awareness on the international level. They bring attention to issues that some people would prefer were swept under the rug.
> 
> Good job Dazz!


Thank you  *hugz*

and everyone else

yes this petition is FREE for me to make..and legal to use..I've talked to the news lady last night ...we were on the news..and Im being interviewed again today about it by another news station..we are the voice of these animals and we are getting our voice heard!!


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

Not sure to whom credit belongs for these quotes.....

"It is easy to sit up and take notice.
It is harder to stand up and take action."

"Sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, even if you are standing alone."

Dazz, What you and others are doing is very stressful. Trying to make a difference is extremely difficult - especially when people tell you not to bother, or don't even understand the importance of the cause. You can't change the whole world. Keeping AlphaTex dogs out of the hands of the Smiths may or may not make any difference to other dogs. But....it will make a huge difference to THESE dogs. 

Thank you for being their voice!
Jan


----------



## selzer

I do not really care what a person is accused of, we should hope that the justice system works properly without the influence of politics. I am disappointed that people think that they can sway opinion on persons' guilt or innocence by whether or not the public will be likely to vote in the magistrate for another term. 

And whether or not the judge throws the book at criminals during sentencing should not be situational. If you want to vote in judges that are tough on crime, that is fine, but basically telling a judge that you want him to stick it to these people because their crime is against animals, or go easy with that jerk because his crime is against children, or old people, that I find disheartening. 

My hope is that justice is served here. That the jury gets solid and complete information, the trial is fair without outside influences, if as I suspect the verdict is guilty, the sentencing is done in such a manner so that the penalty is within the guidelines set out for judges and typical to similar cases tried in that court. 

I wonder if there were petitions and judges e-mailed, letters sent condemning the person running the rescue in Ohio that was shut down with 300 animals siezed and 78 dogs dead. Or is that ok, because he wasn't a puppy mill?


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

But the petition is not asking the judge to determine guilt or innocence. It is asking for the original plan to be upheld - a jury trial. A fair trial, where a jury will determine the verdict. The petition is in opposition to the potential $200K pay out to the Smiths.


----------



## selzer

Stevenzachsmom said:


> But the petition is not asking the judge to determine guilt or innocence. It is asking for the original plan to be upheld - a jury trial. A fair trial, where a jury will determine the verdict. The petition is in opposition to the potential $200K pay out to the Smiths.


Ok, I have been worried about other matters for a while, so somehow I missed it. How in the world would the court provide a $200k pay out to the Smith's? What is this about?

Did the government somehow do something illegal in the search and siezure?

Why would that even be a question?


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

Settlement? Campaign started to thwart reported $200,000 AlphaTex deal - MyPlainview.com: News

Sue, Try this link. There might be better info., but this is the gist of it.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

Hmm, Guess that didn't work. Try page 21 - one of Dazz posts. The link works there.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Settlement? Campaign started to thwart reported $200,000 AlphaTex deal - MyPlainview.com: News

If this doesn't work, I quit.


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## selzer

Thanks, that's bazaar. 

I can see suing if there were no laws broken, and your animals were taken. But generally animal cruelty and neglect are laws. So on what grounds do they sue? Unless the people involved in seizing the animals did something far more heinous than the neglect or cruelty. Does Texas not have provisions for seizing animals in their law?

I am surprised a lawyer would touch a counter-suit.


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## Stevenzachsmom

I have no clue. LOL!


----------



## Dazz

selzer said:


> Thanks, that's bazaar.
> 
> I can see suing if there were no laws broken, and your animals were taken. But generally animal cruelty and neglect are laws. So on what grounds do they sue? Unless the people involved in seizing the animals did something far more heinous than the neglect or cruelty. Does Texas not have provisions for seizing animals in their law?
> 
> I am surprised a lawyer would touch a counter-suit.


 
yes Texas does have provisions for seizing animals in their laws..they close down puppy mills all the time in this state...They closed one down in Central texas on the same day AlphaTex got busted


----------



## Dazz

Please if you have a Story Tell the news!!!

Former AlphaTex Employees Say Kennel Conditions Were Deplorable - EverythingLubbock.com


----------



## Emoore

Add this one to your list. This person is just as bad as the Smiths, in my opinion:
108 animals seized from Duncanville property - Waxahachie Daily Light: Ellis County: spca of texas, duncanville police department, animal seizure,


----------



## lar07

I'm thankful I posted this guys. I'm glad things are being talked about...
Anymore updates?

All I've found is stupid stuff like this:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Animal-Lovers-Who-Support-Alpha-Tex-Kennel/273352642696027?sk=photos

And looking at the son's fb wall and how ridiculous that is. BLAH! People are missing the point: They bred dogs. Fine. They bred dogs in sheer volume where they were unable to care for them. Not fine. I don't see how any sane person can look at the condition of these kennels and animals and think it was ok? Whether that be 200 or 264, or 300+...That's again, not the point. They didn't stop and ask for help. They continued and allowed it to get to this level. 

The end.


----------



## selzer

lar07 said:


> I'm thankful I posted this guys. I'm glad things are being talked about...
> Anymore updates?
> 
> All I've found is stupid stuff like this:
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Animal-Lovers-Who-Support-Alpha-Tex-Kennel/273352642696027?sk=photos
> 
> And looking at the son's fb wall and how ridiculous that is. BLAH! People are missing the point: They bred dogs. Fine. They bred dogs in sheer volume where they were unable to care for them. Not fine. I don't see how any sane person can look at the condition of these kennels and animals and think it was ok? Whether that be 200 or 264, or 300+...That's again, not the point. They didn't stop and ask for help. They continued and allowed it to get to this level.
> 
> The end.


I agree with everything in your post but the "ask for help." No one will tell me who they should ask. And how likely it would be for them to receive any type of help from anybody.


----------



## lar07

selzer said:


> I agree with everything in your post but the "ask for help." No one will tell me who they should ask. And how likely it would be for them to receive any type of help from anybody.


I disagree. It is obvious that they needed help in a situation that continued to go south for a very long time. And there are rescues and organizations put in place for these types of things for help. Not because people want them to be encouraged to behave this way, but because people are idiotic and selfish and just DO. It was their RESPONSIBILITY to step up and be adults to face consequences for their actions. I have zero tolerance to this kind of crap.


----------



## selzer

lar07 said:


> I disagree. It is obvious that they needed help in a situation that continued to go south for a very long time. And there are rescues and organizations put in place for these types of things for help. Not because people want them to be encouraged to behave this way, but because people are idiotic and selfish and just DO. It was their RESPONSIBILITY to step up and be adults to face consequences for their actions. I have zero tolerance to this kind of crap.


Rescues and organizations do not want to help puppy mills out by taking their castoffs. They will not do it. Many rescues will not take owner turn-ins at all. The dog has to be sitting on death row for the rescue to go and snatch them. They will take dogs from puppy mill situations, only if they are closing them down. Not if the person plans to keep a hundred dogs and keep on going. 

They are certainly not going to come in and fix the pens and clean poop and groom dogs. 

That is the responsibility of the owners. They were over their heads. But they were not ready to give up completely. 

The saddest thing about this is that if these people shot and killed and buried the horse and half of their dogs, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The remaining dogs would be better taken care of, and the conditions would not have been bad enough for the sheriff to come in and seize the animals.


----------



## msvette2u

lar07 said:


> I disagree. It is obvious that they needed help in a situation that continued to go south for a very long time. And there are rescues and organizations put in place for these types of things for help. Not because people want them to be encouraged to behave this way, but because people are idiotic and selfish and just DO. It was their RESPONSIBILITY to step up and be adults to face consequences for their actions. I have zero tolerance to this kind of crap.


There is some well-known rescuers who will do it, sadly enough. I know of at least two who have done it and one who actively buys dogs, and even preggers cast offs to resell, the preg. ones she can whelp the puppies out and make boku bucks off. Like...Big Lots. They buy up unwanted inventory and resell, that's what she does.

But good rescuers won't, you're right, selzer. Unless a place shut down and the dogs were legally confiscated, I'd never take puppy mill dogs...not from them anyway, to bail them out.
We have taken puppy mill dogs but not directly from mills and we did not buy them or offer anyone money for them.


----------



## lar07

msvette2u said:


> There is some well-known rescuers who will do it, sadly enough. I know of at least two who have done it and one who actively buys dogs, and even preggers cast offs to resell, the preg. ones she can whelp the puppies out and make boku bucks off. Like...Big Lots. They buy up unwanted inventory and resell, that's what she does.
> 
> But good rescuers won't, you're right, selzer. Unless a place shut down and the dogs were legally confiscated, I'd never take puppy mill dogs...not from them anyway, to bail them out.
> We have taken puppy mill dogs but not directly from mills and we did not buy them or offer anyone money for them.



What a shame. :-/ People are pretty disappointing sometimes aren't they?


----------



## msvette2u

Every day...


----------



## Dazz

I got a update from anonymous source just about a hour ago and I believe all the of the Recue groups should be on alert about this.

There have been calls going into some of the rescue groups. The people calling these groups are from Lubbock and they are asking to adopt the SAME type of breed dogs who have been seizued from the AlphaTex Kennels. 
As THE SMART PEOPLE know. the dogs from AlphaTex ar...e NOT for adoption.
But rescue groups who aren't in lubbock shouldn't be getting these calls from a person in lubbock because if you live in lubbock you can adopt a dog from the lubbock area. 

PLEASE If you work in a rescue group in Texas that IS NOT in the lubbock area..please be very AWARE of who your talking to and find out where they are from...the Lubbock area code is 806. If you work in a rescue group that isn't in lubbock and you get a call from a 806 area code asking to adopte a Colllie, GSD or a GOLDEN..please be aware of the people asking to adopte them


----------



## Emoore

Human nature is odd. We're so worked up about 300 dogs, but nobody cares about the chickens or pigs that endure far worse. And I can tell you right now I wouldn't care at all about this if GSDs weren't involved. If it were Chihuahas and Malti-poos I wouldn't be bothered.

Aren't people funny?


----------



## selzer

Emoore said:


> Human nature is odd. We're so worked up about 300 dogs, but nobody cares about the chickens or pigs that endure far worse. And I can tell you right now I wouldn't care at all about this if GSDs weren't involved. If it were Chihuahas and Malti-poos I wouldn't be bothered.
> 
> Aren't people funny?


I don't know. I say I don't care about little dogs, but then I see one so matted that it can't walk or with an open wound with maggots in it and I just want to murder the people. I like critters of all kind but dogs in general hold a special place for me, because dogs take whatever it is you give them, bad, good, and they keep coming back and keep trying to please you. When a dog has been beaten down to the point where they are beyond that, whether by starvation, or by abuse it is a disgusting thing. When human animals use the unknown tie that dogs have for their humans to deliberately hurt them it is sickening. 

I suppose if I ever owned a horse I would feel the same way for them. And maybe I would feel that way if I had birds or other critters as pets.


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> Human nature is odd. We're so worked up about 300 dogs, but nobody cares about the chickens or pigs that endure far worse. And I can tell you right now I wouldn't care at all about this if GSDs weren't involved. If it were Chihuahas and Malti-poos I wouldn't be bothered.
> 
> Aren't people funny?


 
the reason why I dont feel bad for chickens, pigs or cows is because they all taste good, I grew up raising dinner on the farm. there is a difference between a PET and DINNER...

I HATE Chihuaha's and anything under 15 pounds..but I wouldn't EVER want to see any of them in horrible places like that..

if a dog in a puppy mill can't get preggo. they will kill her by beating her against a tree or stepping on her head and crushing her skull, I've seen enough puppy mill video's on line in the last month that I could tell you EVERYTHING on how they treat dogs and I could promise you that you would throw up. the Amish stuff Screw Drivers down their dogs throats so they aren't able to bark anymore. they give C-Sections to female dogs over and over without pain meds and they sew them up with Fishing line over and over again. If a puppy gets sick, they dont take it to the vet, most will soak the puppy in gas, throw it into a Metal trash can and light it on fire. 

Im very sorry and I feel sorry for you, that you feel that its ok for a smaller breed dog to be treated that way.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom

Emoore said:


> Human nature is odd. We're so worked up about 300 dogs, but nobody cares about the chickens or pigs that endure far worse. And I can tell you right now I wouldn't care at all about this if GSDs weren't involved. If it were Chihuahas and Malti-poos I wouldn't be bothered.
> 
> Aren't people funny?


I don't think it is that we care less about other animals or other dogs that are in similar situations. This particular case is the one that was posted here and brought to our attention. The people working on this are close to the case so it is personal for them.

It's like having a crime in your own neighborhood. I care about crime victims. But - when an 11 year old girl was raped and sodomized in broad daylight, while walking home from school, it hit me like a ton of bricks. At the time, I also had an 11 year old daughter who walked home from the same school. This was way too close to home. And much too personal. It's been 10 years since that happened and I still haven't gotten over it.

Would I care about the victim if she was from a different state or different country? Of course, but the raw emotion would not be so great.

As for AlphaTex - people are free to support this battle or to fight one of their own choosing. Or - to do nothing.


----------



## Emoore

Dazz said:


> if a dog in a puppy mill can't get preggo. they will kill her by beating her against a tree or stepping on her head and crushing her skull, I've seen enough puppy mill video's on line in the last month that I could tell you EVERYTHING on how they treat dogs and I could promise you that you would throw up. the Amish stuff Screw Drivers down their dogs throats so they aren't able to bark anymore. they give C-Sections to female dogs over and over without pain meds and they sew them up with Fishing line over and over again. If a puppy gets sick, they dont take it to the vet, most will soak the puppy in gas, throw it into a Metal trash can and light it on fire.
> .


I grew up on a farm too, but we didn't treat our cattle or pigs the way they're treated in a factory farm. We didn't beat sows to death when they couldn't get pregnant. We didn't pull piglets' teeth without anesthitic or castrate them with no anesthetic. We didn't force the sows into side-lying squeeze chutes for months until they developed open oozing bedsores from not being able to move. 

Animals in factory farms are treated just as badly as dogs in puppy mills. I'm just pointing out it's a double standard and human nature is funny. 

I'm not saying I wouldn't feel sorry for a small dog in a puppy mill, I just wouldn't go out of my way to do something about it the way I do for a German Shepherd. I'm involved in German Shepherd rescue, not all God's creature's rescue, so there's three long fingers pointing back at me here.


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> I grew up on a farm too, but we didn't treat our cattle or pigs the way they're treated in a factory farm. We didn't beat sows to death when they couldn't get pregnant. We didn't pull piglets' teeth without anesthitic or castrate them with no anesthetic. We didn't force the sows into side-lying squeeze chutes for months until they developed open oozing bedsores from not being able to move.
> 
> Animals in factory farms are treated just as badly as dogs in puppy mills. I'm just pointing out it's a double standard and human nature is funny.
> 
> I'm not saying I wouldn't feel sorry for a small dog in a puppy mill, I just wouldn't go out of my way to do something about it the way I do for a German Shepherd. I'm involved in German Shepherd rescue, not all God's creature's rescue, so there's three long fingers pointing back at me here.


 
we didn't do that either,. but you know I dont think that about when im eating bacon or porkchops..Im not PETA..Im not some crazy pyscho who is going to throw RED PAINT on your new fur coat...Im not that type of person. I'll fight for puppy mill puppies. no matter their breed..will I ever foster a Chi puppy who is from a puppy mill? probably not. but I'd be thankful that, the puppy has a foster home instead of sleeping in a cage....have you ever seen a puppy mill video??


----------



## Emoore

Yes, I've seen the videos, seen the photos, fostered the puppies, fostered the moms, cleaned up the messes. . . I've been pretty heavily involved in German Shepherd Rescue for 10 years. There's not a whole lot pertaining to what people will do to dogs that surprises me.


What you said is what I'm pointing out-- we _don't_ think about it when we're eating tasty bacon. Does that make us as bad as someone who buys a puppy from a puppy mill? I'm sure the pig thinks it does. How can I care so much about the suffering of one animal, and enjoy the fruits of the suffering of another animal?


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> Yes, I've seen the videos, seen the photos, fostered the puppies, fostered the moms, cleaned up the messes. . . I've been pretty heavily involved in German Shepherd Rescue for 10 years. There's not a whole lot pertaining to what people will do to dogs that surprises me.
> 
> 
> What you said is what I'm pointing out-- we _don't_ think about it when we're eating tasty bacon. Does that make us as bad as someone who buys a puppy from a puppy mill? I'm sure the pig thinks it does. How can I care so much about the suffering of one animal, and enjoy the fruits of the suffering of another animal?


 
well if you wanna look at it that way and go into detail..you can say everything suffers then..potatoes scream after they have been in the microwave for so long. carrots make a weird noise when you pull them out of the ground. plants have feelings too. they live, breathe air and grow. we might as well stop walking on the grass or cutting down tree's

the way they kill cows for slaughter is ONE shot to the head...you ever see the movie "no country for old men" ?? the killer in that movie used the same machine that they use to put down cows today. on blow to the head. they dont feel anything. and those PETA people are stupid, saying it CRUEL to milk a cow.. a cow gets sick if she isn't milked daily. its CRUEL to NOT milk a cow


----------



## Emoore

I'm not saying it's cruel to shoot a cow in the head.  I'm saying it's cruel to castrate and pull teeth with no anesthetic. I'm not with PETA or HSUS either, but even I know that throwing baby chickens into a grinder to be ground up alive isn't humane. And yet I will have bacon and eggs for breakfast tomorrow.


----------



## Emoore

It's sort of the same concept as caring more about Hurricane Katrina than the Tsunami in Indonesia. Or worrying more about kids in America who don't have health insurance than kids in Africa dying of AIDS. It's not right, but it's what we do.


----------



## Dazz

Emoore said:


> It's sort of the same concept as caring more about Hurricane Katrina than the Tsunami in Indonesia. Or worrying more about kids in America who don't have health insurance than kids in Africa dying of AIDS. It's not right, but it's what we do.


 
Honestly, I've lost ALOT of respect for the human race just because of how they treat their pets. Treat your dogs the way you want to be treated...when I see a pitbull tied up outside in the cold, I wonder to myself if his POS owner wants to sleep and live like that as well


----------



## Cetan

Emoore said:


> Human nature is odd. We're so worked up about 300 dogs, but nobody cares about the chickens or pigs that endure far worse. And I can tell you right now I wouldn't care at all about this if GSDs weren't involved. If it were Chihuahas and Malti-poos I wouldn't be bothered.
> 
> Aren't people funny?


 
I can admit I'm the same way. If it were something like chihuahuas or maltipoos, I'd probably read the article, maybe sign the ePetition, and shrug. I have a thing for large-breed dogs. "Real dogs" as my dad calls them. With AlphaTex though, I'm following the story, sending emails to the Judges... That doesn't mean that I don't care for other dogs, it's just I have more passion for certain kinds.

You won't see me in a PeTA line trying to "save" cows or chickens or pigs. I love myself a good steak wrapped in bacon, and I think chicken is a daily staple for me now.


----------



## LARHAGE

selzer said:


> I don't know. I say I don't care about little dogs, but then I see one so matted that it can't walk or with an open wound with maggots in it and I just want to murder the people. I like critters of all kind but dogs in general hold a special place for me, because dogs take whatever it is you give them, bad, good, and they keep coming back and keep trying to please you. When a dog has been beaten down to the point where they are beyond that, whether by starvation, or by abuse it is a disgusting thing. When human animals use the unknown tie that dogs have for their humans to deliberately hurt them it is sickening.
> 
> I suppose if I ever owned a horse I would feel the same way for them. And maybe I would feel that way if I had birds or other critters as pets.


 
I agree with you, I love all dogs, not just German Shepherds and I absolutely would care the same whether it's a Maltese or a German Shepherd, a dog is a dog, they love no less. 

I of course would always come to the defense of horses as well, they too are near and dear to me.


----------



## LARHAGE

Dazz said:


> the reason why I dont feel bad for chickens, pigs or cows is because they all taste good, I grew up raising dinner on the farm. there is a difference between a PET and DINNER...
> 
> I HATE Chihuaha's and anything under 15 pounds..but I wouldn't EVER want to see any of them in horrible places like that..
> 
> if a dog in a puppy mill can't get preggo. they will kill her by beating her against a tree or stepping on her head and crushing her skull, I've seen enough puppy mill video's on line in the last month that I could tell you EVERYTHING on how they treat dogs and I could promise you that you would throw up. the Amish stuff Screw Drivers down their dogs throats so they aren't able to bark anymore. they give C-Sections to female dogs over and over without pain meds and they sew them up with Fishing line over and over again. If a puppy gets sick, they dont take it to the vet, most will soak the puppy in gas, throw it into a Metal trash can and light it on fire.
> 
> Im very sorry and I feel sorry for you, that you feel that its ok for a smaller breed dog to be treated that way.


I agree with you, yet don't understand how someone can claim to be an animal lover and HATE small dogs under 15 pounds, that is such a short sighted view, little dogs are no less dogs than large dogs, they are every bit as loyal and devoted, you can definately have a preference, but hatred? I love my little under 15 pound dogs every bit as much as my German Shepherds, they are no less a dog in my eyes, and truly those of you who have never owned and loved a little dog are missing out in my book.. I couldn't live without either of them.


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## lar07

Good news!!!! Alpah Tex Denied return of dogs: Alpha Tex denied return of seized dogs|myFOXlubbock | FOX 34 News KJTV Lubbock, Texas


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## Stevenzachsmom

Thanks lar07. I had gotten a heads-up from someone close to the case, but couldn't find a link. YAY!


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## JakodaCD OA

thanks for posting the link, I"ve been following the trial goings on on FB...happy day for those dogs


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## GSDkid

Did they seriously think that they were going to win? Now they have to pay for the court fees as well as the care for dogs by the humane society.


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## selzer

This statement bothers me:
"The judge announced we're here to determine whether they've been cruelly treated, and they did not put on any evidence that they were in fact not cruelly treated," Feare said. 

We are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. One should not have to prove themselves innocent, the burden of proof should be on the prosecutor, one should be proved guilty. 

But it sounds like there was plenty of proof that the dogs were neglected. I just do not like that statement.


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## Lilie

$236,530.00 to care for the dogs for 2 months? Wow!


----------



## selzer

Lilie said:


> $236,530.00 to care for the dogs for 2 months? Wow!


200 dogs * 60 days, is 12,000. 

Let's see, 236,530/12000 = aproximately $20 per dog, per day, which is a lot if each of the dogs were healthy.

But, figure each dog needs a vet exam, $50,
+ heart worm medication, $20
+ flea/tick prevention $14
+ dewormer $5
+ vaccinations $11.
100$ per dog, 

If all the dogs were otherwise healthy, than 100 *200, is 20,000 for initial vet visits. 

Then if you figure 5$ per day for board 5*200*60 = 60,000.

Add flea/tick, heartworm, and dewormer for the second month x 200 dogs = 7800. 

So figure the healthy dogs would cost you, 87,800 for 2 months. 

This leaves about 150,000, and we know most of these dogs are not healthy. 150,000/200 = 1500/2 or 750 per dog for veterinary care.

Wait, forgot grooming. $20/dog is VERY reasonable, so subtract $4,000 
or just $730 per dog for veterinary care.

My guess is that some of the care the dogs needed may have run into the thousands, while other dogs only needed hundreds, and some dogs and the horse were probably just put down, which also costs money. 

It is a lot of money. 

They probably went with a typical board bill of $20/dog per day. 

Will they pay? Probably not. If they do, I would hope that the many, many fosters get a part of it to defray the costs.


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## JakodaCD OA

Not sure what HW treatment costs, but 28 of them were HW positive..

I doubt they'll pay either, I'm sure they are quite peeved, their livelyhood is now kapootz. Time to get a real job.


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## Cetan

JUSTICE.

I was really worried the court might settle. I'm glad they didn't and AlphaTex will have to foot the bill.


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## SummerwoodSoaps

Have there been any updates? Are the dogd still in the foster system or will they be put up for adoption?


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## JakodaCD OA

I believe they are still in foster care..There is another court date I 'think' the 14th, as the owners are contesting the decision and trying to sue just about anyone involved in the case


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## Dazz

Sorry I haven't posted updates..been busy.....


NEW COURT DATE is JANUARY 6th..the court date that already happened has been cleaned off the books and never happened.....starting over


ALL the dogs are still in Foster care


more than 28 dogs were HW pos


alot of the Foster dogs had puppies once they were in Foster homes becasuse they were removed while prego


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## Dazz

I've been following the case since day 1 and I have full contact with the lawyer for the Dogs...

the Smiths are trying to Sue the News and Floyd Co in Federal Court ontop of this mess

If you want to follow the case with us join the page in my Siggy  you'll be kept up to date there when info comes in...Im seee'ing alot of rumors floating around on this forum and that isn't something that needs to be out because that can effect the cAse if the wrong people see that info


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## Dazz

January 6th is really close!!! keep your fingers crossed for a good outcome..I'll keep you all posted...Happy new year!!!


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## SummerwoodSoaps

Any updates?


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## Stevenzachsmom

Hmmmm! Today is the 6th. Hopefully Dazz will pop in with an update.


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## SummerwoodSoaps

Dezz are you there? Did the FB page get taken down?


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## JakodaCD OA

the last I read, the trial has been moved to a different county with a 6 person jury.

I think the date was the 16th or 17th of this month..Dogs are still in foster care.

The owners seem to be doing whatever they can to stall, delay, sue-ing everyone and their brother to hold things up


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## Dazz

JakodaCD OA said:


> the last I read, the trial has been moved to a different county with a 6 person jury.
> 
> I think the date was the 16th or 17th of this month..Dogs are still in foster care.
> 
> The owners seem to be doing whatever they can to stall, delay, sue-ing everyone and their brother to hold things up


 

the one and done Court Date is Jan 17th ...The Smiths are trying to sue everyone who looks at them wrong and they have moved the court trial out of Floyd Co texas because of Death threats towards the SMiths....

The page on FB is still up but I no longer run it due to harrassment and threats on my life as well as being lied to by a HSWT member over some pictures and who was funding the Smiths court Fee's... so a friend of mine too it over...they will have a 6 person jury and the dogs are still in Foster care.

Also The Smiths have a online funding ChipIn for people to send their lawyer money and people are funding the Smiths..these people have been funding and supporting the Smiths for awhile now...


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## Dazz

_*NEW UPDATE..Will have more tomorrow*_


Alpha Tex trial continues Wednesday - KCBD NewsChannel 11 Lubbock


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## Dazz

Jury about to deside on dogs Fate....I will post as soon as I know what is going on....



judge just gave each attorney 30 min for final arguments


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## Stevenzachsmom

Thanks Dazz. Please keep us posted!


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## JakodaCD OA

I saw posted on FB that ALpha tex WILL GET THEIR DOGS BACK!

I am so sick , the dogs loose


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## JakodaCD OA

Jury verdict in favor of Alpha Tex owners |myFOXlubbock | FOX 34 News KJTV Lubbock, Texas


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## Zigfried's Dad

*A victory for Dog Owners!!!*

I've been following this post for the last few days and had to get in on it. Don't believe that "the dogs are the losers". We are all winners! The Humane Society, under the 'color of law' seized 231 dogs and charged the owners with animal abuse and, as they are in the habit of doing, tried to divest the owners of their business without even trying to prove "by a preponderance of the evidence" that it was true. The Animal Cruelty statute that has been passed and put into law by our Texas legislature makes the owner prove they are NOT guilty while the State just brings in Humane Society 'stooges' that parrot a story that they don't have to back up with real 'evidence'. Fortunately, on the jury that was selected, there was one juror that was a research scientist and knew what 'real proof' is. You can't test 16 of the 231 dogs and find that 8 have worms so, using that formula, we deduct that 165.5 of the total dogs have worms. The HS didn't even have any records to show which dogs they tested or which ones were infected. How about if your vet wanted to charge you for testing your dog for parasites and, without any proof or documentation tried to slap you with a bill? You gonna pay it? The HS tried to take this couple's 'livelyhood' without even testing all the animals. Don't get sucked in to the lies of these 'animal rights' criminals. Check out the news on the internet and don't just believe everything you hear.
I'm in Texas and have been following this case since its beginning and it has just not passed the 'smell test'.


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## Emoore

"The jury finds the Smiths did not mistreat or cruelly mistreat more than 200 dogs that were seized by the Floyd County Sheriff after a complaint in September."


--Now is that including the dead one? And the horse with the untreated compound fracture?


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## onyx'girl

I hope the Smiths have to pay for the boarding, and vetting to bring the sick dogs back to health. Photo's do not lie.
Is Zigfried from their kennel, Dad?


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## BowWowMeow

Oh, wow, those poor, poor dogs. 

How are they going to afford to properly care for all of those dogs? 

Ugh, this is just horrible.


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## selzer

If the jury found them not guilty, they should not have to pay a red cent. 

Dogs die all the time. If you have one dog, then chances are good that you will have that one dog die at some point within 10 years. which give you a 1 in 3,650 chance of having a dead dog on the day that HSUS comes to visit. If you have 231 dogs than you have 231 in 3,650 chances to have a dead dog when they come. So approximately 2 dogs per month are likely to die on you, that is more like 1 chance in 15 of having a dead dog on the property when they come to visit. If you are a pet owner, or a rescue, and a dog dies, than it is a tragedy and we should all feel sorry for you and give our condolences, if you are a breeder and a dog dies, you must have abused or neglected it. 

A (singular) dead dog does not bother me. A dead dog that is decaying in a pen with live dogs with flies, and stink -- that is disgusting, and probably pretty easy to prove neglect or abuse. And that horse, well, that horse was just scary -- they had to have some kind of story to justify that horse being in that condition. A story like, someone dropped the horse off today, and they called seven vets and couldn't get any to come out and put it down, so they called the humane society themselves so they could come and take care of putting the horse down. I really cannot picture any other scenario that does not make what they did to the horse neglect or abuse, certainly cruelty. They should have shot it. 

There have been many discussions about how many of the dogs were HW+ and how many needed veterinary care. The burden of proof in this country is on the prosecution. They should not have to prove themselves innocent, they should be proved guilty. I have a hard time believing that they could be cleared completely with the pictures that we saw, and whatever else was put together as evidence. It looked uninviting to be sure, but certainly not the worst I have ever seen (on pictures). One would hope that if the story the jury got was anything close to the story we got here, that they would be found guilty though.


----------



## Emoore

selzer said:


> Dogs die all the time. If you have one dog, then chances are good that you will have that one dog die at some point within 10 years. which give you a 1 in 3,650 chance of having a dead dog on the day that HSUS comes to visit. If you have 231 dogs than you have 231 in 3,650 chances to have a dead dog when they come. So approximately 2 dogs per month are likely to die on you, that is more like 1 chance in 15 of having a dead dog on the property when they come to visit.


Agreed



selzer said:


> A (singular) dead dog does not bother me. A dead dog that is decaying in a pen with live dogs with flies, and stink -- that is disgusting, and probably pretty easy to prove neglect or abuse. And that horse, well, that horse was just scary -- they had to have some kind of story to justify that horse being in that condition. A story like, someone dropped the horse off today, and they called seven vets and couldn't get any to come out and put it down, so they called the humane society themselves so they could come and take care of putting the horse down. I really cannot picture any other scenario that does not make what they did to the horse neglect or abuse, certainly cruelty. They should have shot it.


 Also agreed.



selzer said:


> There have been many discussions about how many of the dogs were HW+ and how many needed veterinary care. The burden of proof in this country is on the prosecution. They should not have to prove themselves innocent, they should be proved guilty. I have a hard time believing that they could be cleared completely with the pictures that we saw, and whatever else was put together as evidence. One would hope that if the story the jury got was anything close to the story we got here, that they would be found guilty though.


I believe what they got was small-town, West Texas justice, where everybody knows everybody and everybody's got a "friend and the the ranchers and landowners are more concerned about property rights than animal welfare.


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## msvette2u

Ah well, the FDA approves puppy mills all the time. This is just one more case. 
Makes me want to vomit.


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## onyx'girl

Well, then the Smiths got free vetting for all their dogs! How lovely....really says something for the word Justice! And I bet they'll get compensation for their pain and suffering too. 
This was in my local news tonight, I sure hope the outcome is different:
Charges sought against woman after 33 dogs found neglected in home


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## Dazz

so we learned something today..Animal Abuse is ok in Texas


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## MonaLsa

I don't want to bash the Humane society as I feel their services are a vital one. What concerns me is I have been hearing about more cases lately where it seems the HS is developing an "inquisition" like power -- where they aren't even bothering to follow the rules of evidence when they seize animals. The cases I've heard about involve the HS taking a few pictures, but then when it comes to the actual trial, the vet work and medical records they present in court are a joke. They don't bother keeping actual records of the individual animals tests and condition at seizure. The HS doesn't produce any substantiated evidence to the court or to defense, which is required by law. No wonder a jury found the Smiths "not guilty." Who knows, maybe they were guilty, but if you're serious about WINNING a case, you test ALL the animals. You take pictures of each one INDIVIDUALLY immediately upon seizure. You carefully document your evidence AND you supply it to the defense so they can present their side. You KEEP detailed records of any test results and use it to build your case. 

My problem, Dazz, with this kind of shoddy work is the HS is going to lose their credibility and this will hurt their future endeavors to save animals who really are suffering cruel treatment. 

On the flip side, if they are seizing animals that don't meet the criteria of animal abuse as defined in the health and safety code, then they SHOULD lose. That's the check and balance of our court system. If you don't like it, move to Mexico where it's all about who you know and how much money you have!


----------



## Betty

I watched the news video and they said a vet testified that it is normal for a facility this size to have hw. WTH?

Those poor dogs. It's breaking my heart.


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## Gwenhwyfair

You're confusing two topics here, regulatory capture vs rules of evidence.

Just based on the photos the evidence looked pretty solid that abusive practices were going on.

When I heard last night of the decision my first thought was the evidence collection/presentation must not have held up in court.

The amount of evidence required to prove abuse maybe more onerous in Texas compared to other states. Having said that the Humane Society should be aware of the requirements and build a rock solid case before proceeding to court. Does that mean some animals may have to suffer for a longer period of time, sure, but in the long run that's how it must be done.

As to the 'inquistion like power' given that the kennel owners have won this round I'd say the H.S. does NOT have that kind of power.

(and as a side note, this coming from a state where a judge recently compensated a couple for the 'sentimental' value of their dog....go figure)






MonaLsa said:


> I don't want to bash the Humane society as I feel their services are a vital one. What concerns me is I have been hearing about more cases lately where it seems the HS is developing an "inquisition" like power -- where they aren't even bothering to follow the rules of evidence when they seize animals. The cases I've heard about involve the HS taking a few pictures, but then when it comes to the actual trial, the vet work and medical records they present in court are a joke. They don't bother keeping actual records of the individual animals tests and condition at seizure. The HS doesn't produce any substantiated evidence to the court or to defense, which is required by law. No wonder a jury found the Smiths "not guilty." Who knows, maybe they were guilty, but if you're serious about WINNING a case, you test ALL the animals. You take pictures of each one INDIVIDUALLY immediately upon seizure. You carefully document your evidence AND you supply it to the defense so they can present their side. You KEEP detailed records of any test results and use it to build your case.
> 
> My problem, Dazz, with this kind of shoddy work is the HS is going to lose their credibility and this will hurt their future endeavors to save animals who really are suffering cruel treatment.
> 
> On the flip side, if they are seizing animals that don't meet the criteria of animal abuse as defined in the health and safety code, then they SHOULD lose. That's the check and balance of our court system. If you don't like it, move to Mexico where it's all about who you know and how much money you have!


----------



## Zigfried's Dad

*Photo's don't lie????? *



onyx'girl said:


> I hope the Smiths have to pay for the boarding, and vetting to bring the sick dogs back to health. Photo's do not lie.
> Is Zigfried from their kennel, Dad?


"photos don't lie" ... right? guess you've not had much experience with some of the 'photo enhancement' software on the market now adays? I have and, besides that, I've found that, even without 'tampering' with pictures, focusing on a certain angle can produce effects that create an impression that you want. That's why, pictures, no matter what they appear to show, are not enough to prove criminal neglect, per se. You have to back them up with documentation. That's what is missing in this whole Charade... documentation! Thank God that the 'not guilty' defendant's will not have to pay for 'the boarding'. The HS and it's lakeys will have to cover that! And, no, Zigfried was not at Alpha Tex but, judging from the care that the HS gave to the dogs after they were taken, including the euthanization of multiple dogs, I'm thankful he wasn't one of the ones taken. The HS is notorius for putting dogs and cats down that can't be sold! Don't believe they are the 'saviours' of abused animals. It is BIG business!


----------



## Zigfried's Dad

Dazz said:


> so we learned something today..Animal Abuse is ok in Texas


Animal abuse is not 'ok in Texas' but neither is tampling of Human rights and the unwarranted seizure of personal property without 'cause'. Read the US Bill of Rights! You are a Nazi if you believe the State can do whatever it wants to without 'due process of law'. Wake up and look at what you are saying!!


----------



## Zigfried's Dad

I gotta say that "West Texas Justice" is not blind. Ranchers and Farmers deal with animals all the time and are all having to cope with the terrible drought that has effected all of Texas over the past year. The Smiths did NOT knowingly, willingly ir intentionally abuse their animals. The HS jumped on a report of Animal abuse and tried to use it as an excuse to do what they wanted to do.... and failed! Thank God! This time, attorneys were able to secure a jury trial and the truth prevailed. Most animal seizures do not progress in this manner. I pray that this one will set a presedent for future cases.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

they are lucky they aren't in CT, there would have been a different outcome I'm sure.

I'm all for "people's rights", but sorry I don't buy the doctored pictures thing. 

The DA let those dogs down. They had HUNDREDS of pictures and only showed the jury 6? Give me a break.

They were a puppy mill pure and simple, I doubt one dog on their property ever had an OFA number. There were/are quite a few people who have purchased their dogs and ended up with numerous health issues.

All I can say is, I hope the Smiths are grateful they are getting back FULLY vetted, socialized, trained and well kept dogs. They are certainly being returned in better condition than when they left. 

And to not "knowingly" abuse their animals? OMG, a simple HW med each month would have prevented HW in ALOT of those dogs. 

Now they can get back in the business of selling puppies. 

Lets put it this way , would YOU buy a dog from them? I honestly dare anyone to. I know I wouldn't. 

In the end, the dogs will suffer, altho their house dogs are living like kings. I guess dog breeders in Texas view breeding dogs differently than responsible breeders/ being all about "them" vs all about the animals they have and/or produce.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Speaking of 'waking up and look at what you are saying'...Argumentum ad hitlerum...*bleeecchhh* The retreat of those who can_ only_ spout vitriol.

.....and really references to Hitler shouldn't be allowed here but I'll leave that up to the mods.

The 'argument' below rests on the most wobbly of foundations at best presuming that the kennel owners were the only ones completely and totally 'victimized' by their own local and/or big bad *STATE* government without any previous warning, citations or due process.

So either the kennel owners blew off all warnings and previous actions OR your State of Texas doesn't have such steps in place is seriously _askew_.........

So which is it - speaking of - "Wake up and look at what you are saying."

in edit, this and the other posts supporting the kennel owners are speaking to a meme: this really is about a group of people who do not want to be regulated in any way shape or form, even if it means living breathing feeling animals must suffer for the sake of the all mighty dollar.




Zigfried's Dad said:


> Animal abuse is not 'ok in Texas' but neither is tampling of Human rights and the unwarranted seizure of personal property without 'cause'. Read the US Bill of Rights! You are a Nazi if you believe the State can do whatever it wants to without 'due process of law'. Wake up and look at what you are saying!!


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Oh and I just read the next "argument" which is an argument to ignorance on the part of the kennel owners not 'knowingly' or 'intentionally' abusing their animals is pure malarky as well.

The horrible irony is this was/is a commercial kennel. They should be held to a higher level of standards then an individual pet owner. As a business owner it is MY 'personal' responsiblity to be aware of proper practices, which, when it involves animals in my care correct husbandry of the animals.

For example: If I blew off giving one my client's dogs water on a hot day and it died and they took me to court should I be able to get away with a 'I didn't know it needed water' as a defense?

HECK NO!

I've read and heard about cases where individual (non commercial) pet owners were held far more responsible for far less. 

I've not commented on this case previously as I wanted to wait to see how it all panned out. The more I learn, the more I read the 'reasoning' justifying the outcome.... what perfidious and evil angels doth lurk in the human heart.


----------



## selzer

Just a few things:


JakodaCD OA said:


> they are lucky they aren't in CT, there would have been a different outcome I'm sure.
> 
> I'm all for "people's rights", but sorry I don't buy the doctored pictures thing.
> 
> The DA let those dogs down. They had HUNDREDS of pictures and only showed the jury 6? Give me a break.
> 
> They were a puppy mill pure and simple *which is not against the law*, I doubt one dog on their property ever had an OFA number *which is not against the law*. There were/are quite a few people who have purchased their dogs and ended up with numerous health issues *which is not against the law*.
> 
> All I can say is, I hope the Smiths are grateful they are getting back FULLY vetted, socialized, trained and well kept dogs. They are certainly being returned in better condition than when they left.
> 
> And to not "knowingly" abuse their animals? OMG, a simple HW med each month would have prevented HW in ALOT of those dogs. *Monthly heartworm medication is not required by law.*
> 
> Now they can get back in the business of selling puppies.
> 
> Lets put it this way , would YOU buy a dog from them? I honestly dare anyone to. I know I wouldn't.
> 
> In the end, the dogs will suffer, altho their house dogs are living like kings. I guess dog breeders in Texas view breeding dogs differently than responsible breeders/ being all about "them" vs all about the animals they have and/or produce.


I think the Smith's broke the law, and should have had their animals removed, and should not have gotten them back. But for breaking the law, for neglecting the animals, for animal cruelty. Not for running a business where puppies are the product. Not for not jumping through all the hoops we want people to jump if they want to breed GSDs. Not for producing puppies that have had health issues. And certainly not for choosing not to treat dogs with a preventive medication. 

If the HS and the SD is going to remove animals from their owners, they should dot their i's and cross their t's. They should back up their evidence with the proper documentation. If they failed to do so, they let the dogs down.


----------



## Betty

Sorry, no angle change could of made those dogs and the dog's living conditions look any better.

Not "knowingly" abuse their dogs???? Don't even know where to begin with that one.

Out of curiosity are you one of the Smith's or a friend?


----------



## jetscarbie

Just curious......with all the publicity this case has gotten...what are the chances of these people ever being able to sell dog's and make the same amount of money as before?

I mean even if everything negative about them is true or false...who would really go to their kennel now and buy a dog from them?

If it were me......I would be looking to get out of the breeding business very fast now (their name is pretty much ruined). So I wonder if they are going to try to sell off all the dog's as fast as the can now?


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## JakodaCD OA

I think there will always be 'someone' out there willing to buy a dog from them

I'm sure they need to get back into business fast since the way they talked the dogs WERE their livelihood. 

They will now be getting back healthy dogs so a bonus for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed their kennel name since this one is now pretty well known but as I said, I'm sure there are people out there that haven't heard a thing about them, will check out their website and buy.

I agree with selzer, don't care how irresponsibly they 'breed', it was the way those dogs were kept that was in my opinion the main issue. No dog should have to live like they did


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## JackandMattie

I wasn't a member here back then, but I should have realized sooner that y'all would have tracked the whole nightmare!



Dazz said:


> the Smith's are horrible people and they do not need those dogs back...they need to never own another animal for as long as they live!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FLOYD COUNTY, TX (KCBD) - **Dogs seized from Alpha Tex Kennel will remain in foster care until a jury hears the case against the owners.*
> *On Thursday, Floyd County Justice of the Peace Judge Tali Jackson granted a trial jury for the Alpha Tex Kennel. No trial date has been set at this time.*
> *The Floyd County Sheriff, with help from the Humane Society, seized approximately 300 dogs from the Alpha Tex property near Lockney in late September. At the time Alpha Tex co-owner Sandra Smith said the Sheriff over-reacted to "temporary problems." *
> *"This is not a puppy mill situation," Smith said. "Yes it outgrew us, it outgrew us in a big way."*
> *Alpha Tex has petitioned the court for the return of the animals, which is what led to the Thursday hearing before Justice Jackson. *
> *The Kennel's attorney, Paul Holloway argued the Smith's have lost more than $200,000 in revenue because of the seizure. Holloway explained the Kennel got out of hand because Mark Smith, one of the owners, became disabled. He said the affidavit did not elaborate on the poor conditions and didn't show probable for taking their animals. Holloway also explained deputies confronted the Smiths with assault rifles during the seizure. *
> *The Sheriff took the stand explaining the Smiths have a trained German Sheppard which is why they had guns, but they were never pointed at the Smiths.*
> *The Human Society volunteers were in court listening to the whole conversation, awaiting a decision that did not happen. *
> *"It was not about the animals so I guess we will have to see later how this is all going to come out," said Humane Society of West Texas volunteer, Mary Hatfield.*
> *Hatfield says they will be in trial every step of the way. *
> *"This is not our first rodeo, we have worked with many sheriff's in many counties. Nothing that is happening here is strange or unusual," said Hatfield.*


BTW...This is the same dog from the photo above, taken just a few weeks ago (not me in the photo):



And she's All mine, my senior, Miss Mattie Lynn. As you can see, she's a plushy. I gave her the name Mattie because of the condition she was in when I picked her up. She was the worst case I saw when I drove up to volunteer. Leg matted to her body, feces encrusted, tick infested. I squatted down and opened my arms and she walked straight in and buried her face in my chest and I said "We'll Fix It!"

When I drove Mattie and Jack up to the Smith's kennels with the sheriff (in compliance with the court-ordered return of the dogs), _neither_ dog responded to Mrs. Smith, even though she did recognize both of them and called them by name. She told me that Mattie had been bonded to her husband when she was younger and that she hated being groomed. Mattie didn't give any recognition to any of the Smith family members. In fact, as soon as she had been scanned and photographed, she was scrambling to hop back up into my truck.

I'll take all the flak I deserve on this point, but after fostering these dogs for several months, I wasn't about to turn them back over to the Sheriff to return, so I drove up there with him and the dogs with every intention of making an offer.

I didn't even have to. It was clear this was all about the money for them. Mrs. Smith put a price on my one-eared Jack (who was 63 lbs at eleven months when he was seized)... I asked her to "throw in the old girl?" She said "Yes," and I said "Deal." Wrote a check, gave her my address to send me their papers, and the dogs and I got outta Dodge. I think we sang out loud all the way back to Lubbock!


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## Andaka

Good for you. You handled it well, and gave two beautiful dogs the kind of life they deserve.


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## Karin

Thank you so much for rescuing these two dogs. Thank goodness you were able to get them permanently. Miss Mattie is a real cutie :wub: and you can just see the gratitude and love in her eyes. It's so nice to see a happy ending for the two of them (and for you!)


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## onyx'girl

Thank you for updating...I hope the other dogs fared as well as Jack and Mattie! She is a very pretty 'old girl'!


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## JackandMattie

A Lot of dogs went back  idk how many total, but we followed two trailers of crated dogs the sheriff was returning,and led half a dozen other hopeful cars up there from Lubbock. And that was only about 40 of the dogs that were taken that day. 

The car behind me couldn't afford the asking price for the two baby puppies they'd been fostering (raising), and that was heart wrenching. Wasn't there to see it, but heard about it a few miles down the road. 


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## JackandMattie

onyx'girl said:


> Thank you for updating...I hope the other dogs fared as well as Jack and Mattie! She is a very pretty 'old girl'!


Thanks! She's won't win any prizes for conformation, lol! But she Certainly won my heart!


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## onyx'girl

So, is there a 'watchdog' group keeping an eye on the kennel or are they back to their old ways?


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## JackandMattie

You know, I don't know. I was transferred to Ohio shortly thereafter, and didn't keep up. 

Left my laptop at the office, but will check with the Secretary of State's office tomorrow to see whether they are still conducting business in TX. 

Their old website is still up, but looks abandoned. 

I think I saw a couple of weeks ago that they reopened under a new name. Couldn't find the site again this afternoon. 


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## K.Creek

I owned a dog from Alphatex that we purchased several years ago. His sire was agitator and dam was Call me Kirby...anyone know what happened to them?


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## JackandMattie

I don't  I can call around Lubbock. 


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## Blitzkrieg1

Wow got through this whole thread and ended up conflicted. On one hand the Smiths sound like real pieces of work and on the other hand you have the crazy animal rights people that real big on sensation and awfully low on facts. Am I the only one who did not want either side to win? Just because they are in it to save the precious fur babies doesnt exempt them from following the rule of law..I am glad Texas did not allow that type of nonsense. As selzer said though how long before they come after hobby breeders? How long before they are the ones deciding who is a ByB or puppy mill...we all know that many of these Animal Rights people dont let reality and facts get in the way of a good emotional tear jerker. The one poster that Selzer questioned about the FACTS got into the your either with us or against us nonsense then left..probably for forums less interested in the truth and more with going after all the evil breeders out there.

Either way hopefully the dogs are doing better and I am glad you were able to purchase the old girl she looks happy.


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## K.Creek

JackandMattie said:


> I don't  I can call around Lubbock.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I called them directly and just asked what happened to Agitator...he's still there. Along with his 10 yr old father, Axel, who is still being used for breeding. She currently does not have pups from Agitator, but she "thinks there's one out there" from his brother, Kramer. 

Just so you know I have zero interest in financially supporting these people, but I would buy just to get one out of there 

When you can't remember who's had what or who is still out there, that's a big problem with me...sounds like too many dogs.


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## selzer

K.Creek said:


> I called them directly and just asked what happened to Agitator...he's still there. Along with his 10 yr old father, Axel, who is still being used for breeding. She currently does not have pups from Agitator, but she "thinks there's one out there" from his brother, Kramer.
> 
> J*ust so you know I have zero interest in financially supporting these people, but I would buy just to get one out of there*
> 
> When you can't remember who's had what or who is still out there, that's a big problem with me...sounds like too many dogs.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


And this is the biggest problem with puppy mills. This is what they are banking on. This is why they sell in little stores in malls where the cages are small and simply awful looking. 

When we buy one just to get one out of there, they breed another bitch. They produce 4 or 7 or 14 puppies to replace the one you just purchased. 

They keep their bitch, which otherwise they may have placed because they were able to sell this litter of puppies, let's go ahead and breed her again. 

This is where tough love has to come in. If you can't walk into a pet store without rescuing a dog from there, then don't go in there. Same with buying direct from a hideous place. You are getting one poor pup out of those conditions, but if that pup does not sell, and they have to dump it in a shelter or give it away for free, or euthanize it, then they might not keep as many of our breed because the pups simply aren't selling. If the pups sell, than that one is saved, but how many bitches are back on the farm doomed to a less than adequate existance to produce more and more and more puppies. 

Pet stores that sell puppies don't get my business. Even buying a bag of food or treats from a store that sells puppies is supporting the selling of puppies from puppy mills. If pet owners stayed away from stores that sell dogs, then they would clean up their act. 

With the internet, these farms do not need to sell in pet stores as much. People buy from the internet without going and looking at the place where the puppies are raised. That's not the end of the world, but it is a reason places with terrible conditions can stay in business. 

Buying a dog to get it out of there, dooms another dog. The only way people should get dogs out of there is with zero money exchanged, then they might reduce the number of dogs -- and _that _can be helpful to them. But at least, they aren't being given the money to go out and buy more dogs, incentive to breed more dogs, by the people that want to help dogs.


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## greenfeldvl2

Well, then the Smiths got free vetting for all their dogs! How lovely....really says something for the word Justice! And I bet they'll get compensation for their pain and suffering too. 
This was in my local news tonight, I sure hope the outcome is different:
Charges sought against woman after 33 dogs found neglected in home


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## onyx'girl

There was one last week in my state that was given no charges for neglecting, hoarding 18 dogs and operating a puppymill. I don't know who decides how charges will be filed or not, but this person will be back to her old ways because there were no consequences  

Puppy mill dogs surrendered to humane shelter by Hillsdale County breeder - National Pet Rescue | Examiner.com


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