# serious territorial guarding



## jennafetherolf

Hi everyone

My dog Shelby is a neutered 1 1/2 year old male GSD. He is a great dog in many ways: very affectionate and readily submissive to those humans he trusts, no destructive behavior, no separation anxiety,wonderful with my 3 yr old daughter.....

The big problem I have with him is that when someone he does not know comes onto or gets near our property he gets very intense. We live way out in the country and see very few people and have very few unexpected guests, so he has had little experience with this.

He acts very differently towards strangers when at home and when away from home. An example I can give is of a neighbor who will occassionally stop by to chat when she sees me outside. When she does this Shelby does his intense barking thing, but when the same neighbor stops her car to talk when I have Shelby out on a walk he just sits there looking bored.

I do not know how to handle him when having people he does not know over. He cannot relax when they are in the house. My first idea is to have him in an outdoor kennel for the first hour or so while people are visiting, and then bringing him in if the people are comfortable with it. My logic behind this approach is safety first, but also that it may tell him that he has no say in who gets to come into the house.

What do you all think of this? Jenna


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## onyx'girl

Because you don't have people in often, I can see his protective(I personally believe it is based in fear) behavior. You can work on this only if you have the people coming in be on board with it.
Throwing him treats, and ignoring him may help desensitize him to them, but it would have to be done often enough so he sees they are no threat.
Or you could just crate/kennel him so he isn't around when people do come over.
I would work on the first option if you can. 
My two females are like this with people they don't know and we have people coming in and out alot. Onyx the 3 yr old was really bad at 1-2 yrs(immaturity) and has gotten much better with age.
I just tell everyone to ignore the dogs and act like they own the house. It works~ after the first sniff the dogs are fine. If there is someone coming in that I don't think want to deal with the dogs, I'll contain them.


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## jennafetherolf

Thanks Jane

I think I will be working with both methods depending on the particular situation. There are some people who I know are absolutely not comfortable with him and I see no reason to try and push him on anyone. I also know that i will always kennel him when my daughter has friends over, that is just too much risk and too much area for him to misunderstand actions. Household circumstances are changing so there will be more social activity going on here, and lots more opportunity for him to become comfortable with other people being here. I am understanding more about him and how to work well with him so I want to make the most of the upcoming opportunities.

Jenna


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## lcht2

onyx'girl said:


> Because you don't have people in often, I can see his protective(I personally believe it is based in fear) behavior. .


 
how can you judge this? you read little one story. and i wouldnt call fear being a protective behavior.

its hard to judge without actually seeing the dog or a video. to me, if it were fear, he wouldnt be relaxed on the side of the road when your neighbor stops his/her car to chat. dogs, especially male dogs can be territorial and since your out in the country, there are not a whole lot of passer by's that he has adjusted to seeing. like i said, its hard to tell without a video or actually seeing it in person. just sounds like your dog is being a jerk and he knows it. my dog is the same way when it comes to new ppl but he never forgets a face and once you have befriended him, he's your buddy. i can take him out into public and he could care less about ppl, and if he does pay attention to you, its in a rude way with his nose right into your crotch.

what kind of body language does the dog show when this is going on?


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## onyx'girl

I say that because the dog hasn't had much exposure to people in his home, so he is reacting because he doesn't know what to expect of them. 
If he were use to people coming and going and showing this behavior, I would think more along the lines him protecting vs the fear reaction. 
Outside of his territory is not the same behavior, because the "intruder" is not invading his personal space, so he doesn't react.
That and his age plays into it big time. A 14 month old is still not mature enough to assess situations as a mature dog would.
And I may be wrong, still it needs to be worked out or it may get worse as the dog matures.


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## jennafetherolf

His body language when people go by the house or someone he doesn't know comes to the door, is pretty intense, very strong stance, very deep barking, hackles raised. I have seen him when he is fearful and this is different, this is like he is standing his ground and showing whomever that he is the big tough guy.

He is very different away from the house, really curious and a little goofy, somewhat timid but it seems as if he wants to be friendly (if that makes sense) although he is never really comfortable with men.


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## onyx'girl

My fear aggressive girl shows herself to be threatening, hackles raised, deep bark and it is fear based. She is trying to get the threat to leave because she is unsure. It is fear based.
And your last sentence with the word _timid_ tells me I think Shelby is doing the same thing.
Nothing wrong with it, it is normal for his age. You just want to show him you are the one to handle the type situations when he is reacting. And he needs to gain confidence. Do you take him to training classes? Agility is a great confidence booster.


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## JerzeyGSD

I totally feel your pain. Jerzey is getting pretty ridiculous with the amount of barking she does when strangers come anywhere near my apt. building. There aren't many people that live in the building so she rarely sees anyone around and just assumes the entire building belongs to me (?) I'm moving to NYC in a few months and I am hoping with exposure to more people around whatever apt. building I move in to will help her realize that our "house" is just the apt. and not the entire building. It's so hard to get a dog to understand that people may come by the house when it rarely happens. *Sigh*

Just try to invite people over more often or ask your neighbor if she would mind stopping by a few times a week to help you get your pup to get used to people coming over.


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## AgileGSD

onyx'girl said:


> My fear aggressive girl shows herself to be threatening, hackles raised, deep bark and it is fear based.


 GSDs are _supposed _to be territorial though and it is not always fear based.


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## Castlemaid

AgileGSD said:


> GSDs are _supposed _to be territorial though and it is not always fear based.


True, but at my house, I'm the territorial one - if anything needs to be barked at, ran off, growled at, or if worthy of raising hackles, that is MY job, and my dogs are to follow my lead (I know, easier said than done!!)

And hackles are generally a sign of fear. Now my pup will hackle from the top of his head to the tip of his tail when excited and playing, and many dogs do hackle out of excitement and in play - but if a dog is territorial barking with hackles up, I would tend to think that there is an element of fear and insecurity with that.


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## lcht2

jennafetherolf said:


> His body language when people go by the house or someone he doesn't know comes to the door, is pretty intense, very strong stance, very deep barking, hackles raised. I have seen him when he is fearful and this is different, this is like he is standing his ground and showing whomever that he is the big tough guy.
> 
> He is very different away from the house, really curious and a little goofy, somewhat timid but it seems as if he wants to be friendly (if that makes sense) although he is never really comfortable with men.


 
it seems he may just be a young dog who is unsure. try haveing a BBQ some time soon and have everybody who comes over greet him with something he loves, may that be a ball, kong, or steak but do not coddle the unwanted behavior. curious behavior is acceptable, fearfull or aggressive behavior should not be reinforced with an "its ok" or any other kind of baby talk. let the dog learn on his own. owners who interfere with there dog working and learning on there own are the ones who run into problems with there dogs lacking confidence. 

what i would do is walk the dog out to greet every guest and walk them into your house, at the same time rewarding the behavior that you want.


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## TYE

jennafetherolf said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> My dog Shelby is a neutered 1 1/2 year old male GSD. He is a great dog in many ways: very affectionate and readily submissive to those humans he trusts, no destructive behavior, no separation anxiety,wonderful with my 3 yr old daughter.....
> 
> The big problem I have with him is that when someone he does not know comes onto or gets near our property he gets very intense. We live way out in the country and see very few people and have very few unexpected guests, so he has had little experience with this.
> 
> He acts very differently towards strangers when at home and when away from home. An example I can give is of a neighbor who will occassionally stop by to chat when she sees me outside. When she does this Shelby does his intense barking thing, but when the same neighbor stops her car to talk when I have Shelby out on a walk he just sits there looking bored.
> 
> I do not know how to handle him when having people he does not know over. He cannot relax when they are in the house. My first idea is to have him in an outdoor kennel for the first hour or so while people are visiting, and then bringing him in if the people are comfortable with it. My logic behind this approach is safety first, but also that it may tell him that he has no say in who gets to come into the house.
> 
> What do you all think of this? Jenna


 dude thats the nature of a german shepherd they're suppose to bethat way towards strangers...thats a good thing. nothing is wrong with your dog. as long as he isn't being aggressive towards you or your family. My GSD does the same thing...its what they do.


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## TxRider

onyx'girl said:


> My fear aggressive girl shows herself to be threatening, hackles raised, deep bark and it is fear based. She is trying to get the threat to leave because she is unsure. It is fear based.
> And your last sentence with the word _timid_ tells me I think Shelby is doing the same thing.
> Nothing wrong with it, it is normal for his age. You just want to show him you are the one to handle the type situations when he is reacting. And he needs to gain confidence. Do you take him to training classes? Agility is a great confidence booster.


Same here, 

My very fearful and timid girl is downright ferocious at people coming in the yard. She puts on a very convincing display. She does not trust people in the house and warms up to someone slowly. She does not do this outside her "territory".

My very fearless girl might bark once, just to test a persons reactions or let them know they are being watched, but accepts anyone I do without any threatening right away.


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## codmaster

TYE said:


> dude thats the nature of a german shepherd they're suppose to bethat way towards strangers...thats a good thing. nothing is wrong with your dog. as long as he isn't being aggressive towards you or your family. My GSD does the same thing...its what they do.


No actually the GSD is NOT supposed to be aggressive toward all strangers - the standard actually says "allof but approachable". They are actually supposed to be kind of nuetral toward good guy strangers and discriminating enough to know the difference about the 'bad guys'.

Certainly they should bark when people come to your house or yard but when you indicate that they are ok, then they should stop the threatening display and accept the. Don't have to gush all over them but they should also not be aggrssive and threatening to them.

Even some of the top shutzhund dogs and even police dogs are very approachable once you have been introduced by the owners - this is how a good GSD should be.

How can a GSD be a good "watch dog" if they have to be locked up when people come to your house?


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## TYE

codmaster said:


> No actually the GSD is NOT supposed to be aggressive toward all strangers - the standard actually says "allof but approachable". They are actually supposed to be kind of nuetral toward good guy strangers and discriminating enough to know the difference about the 'bad guys'.
> 
> Certainly they should bark when people come to your house or yard but when you indicate that they are ok, then they should stop the threatening display and accept the. Don't have to gush all over them but they should also not be aggrssive and threatening to them.
> 
> Even some of the top shutzhund dogs and even police dogs are very approachable once you have been introduced by the owners - this is how a good GSD should be.
> 
> How can a GSD be a good "watch dog" if they have to be locked up when people come to your house?


 but all of that takes training...its in the GSD blood to be protective of their territory and aggressive towards strangers that is why they are rated one of the best guard dogs, if not the best. It takes training for you to give ur GSD a command and he just immediately welcomes a stranger into your yard or home. Police dogs are VERY VERY VERY well trained thats why they can follow that one command and go from super aggressive to calm and approachable in the blink of an eye. its hard work and your german shepherd wont pick that up over night its training. Thats why i say its the german shepherd's nature to be aggressive towards strangers bc without the training he will continue to be that way towards strangers and its not just GSD's that act that way , just about any dog is that way with people they do not recognize but the GSD it notorious for this.


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## TYE

codmaster said:


> How can a GSD be a good "watch dog" if they have to be locked up when people come to your house?


 okay i think there must be a misunderstanding here. My definition of a watch dog is a dog who will watch over and protect his home and his family. If you are home and say some friends come over and knock on the door, if ur dog barks and runs to the door , in my opinion he's doin his job, letting you know "hey, theres someone at the door" and also letting the "strangers" know "hey this is my turf and im going to protect it." The dog doesnt know they are your friends (unless he's been around them and have been with thim on occasion and has recognized them). So to me thats a good example of a watch dog. Now to also have a good watch dog you have to work with your dog and let him know your the Boss and have control of him in every situation. So if your friends come in the house let him know its okay and get him/her in a calm state of mind and slowly introduce your friends/family to your dog. Let the dog approach and smell them without them being fearful. i have a 5 month old GSD and ive been training him since 8 wks by myself..no special classes. He is very protective of me and the house so ive dealt with these kind of situations. I dont know if this helps you see what im trying to say but i would love anybodys opinion or feedback.


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## JKlatsky

TYE said:


> but all of that takes training...its in the GSD blood to be protective of their territory and aggressive towards strangers that is why they are rated one of the best guard dogs, if not the best. It takes training for you to give ur GSD a command and he just immediately welcomes a stranger into your yard or home. Police dogs are VERY VERY VERY well trained thats why they can follow that one command and go from super aggressive to calm and approachable in the blink of an eye. its hard work and your german shepherd wont pick that up over night its training. Thats why i say its the german shepherd's nature to be aggressive towards strangers bc without the training he will continue to be that way towards strangers and its not just GSD's that act that way , just about any dog is that way with people they do not recognize but the GSD it notorious for this.


Going to also have to disagree with this. A really confident dog doesn't believe anything can hurt it. Consequently they don't really see the need to resort to defensive barking to scare off the intruder. With very confident dogs you more often need a command to "turn them on" as opposed to a command to make them approachable. 

A dog that needs to make itself look bigger and has to bark aggressively is generally what I would consider to be unsure. This is not to say that it's always a bad thing. Often dogs need to believe that there is a threat in order to go into defense, but a stranger on their own should not constitute enough of a threat to send a dog into defense. A really confident dog with good nerves and high threshold tend to assert their territory in more subtle ways. I've seen my older dog just give another dog a look, and they move on. Same with strangers. The dog will square towards the person and give a stare if the person keeps appraoching the dog also moves forward. But no great big barking hackling display. It's up to me though to know what's going on an intercept before there's a problem.

I think that what you're seeing here with the behavior at home as opposed to outside of the home has to do with the boost the dog gets from being in his home environment. Outside the home, he is more willing to allow his person to take leadership and tolerate outside strangers. At home he has more confidence to try and take on things that are "out of place" like strangers in his house. 

We had a Mastiff once that was fearful. In her home and behind her fence she was a beast. You would think she would come right over the fence. Not a chance. In the home she'd follow very closely on your heels waiting for you to do something. When you did she'd get the barking going and charge. She hated it when she'd slide on the tile and actually touch you. She wanted to intimidate you and make you gone, but she did not want to engage the stranger in any meaninful combative way. Outside the home she was much more tolerant. No barking and would generally stay right next to you. Outside the home she lost all control of the situation and had to cope in another way. You could see small signls that would indicate she was uncomfortable like yawning, lip licking, turning her head away from the stranger. She wasn't a mean dog. I think she wanted to like people, she was just afraid.


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## GSDElsa

TYE said:


> okay i think there must be a misunderstanding here. My definition of a watch dog is a dog who will watch over and protect his home and his family. If you are home and say some friends come over and knock on the door, if ur dog barks and runs to the door , in my opinion he's doin his job, letting you know "hey, theres someone at the door" and also letting the "strangers" know "hey this is my turf and im going to protect it." The dog doesnt know they are your friends (unless he's been around them and have been with thim on occasion and has recognized them). So to me thats a good example of a watch dog. Now to also have a good watch dog you have to work with your dog and let him know your the Boss and have control of him in every situation. So if your friends come in the house let him know its okay and get him/her in a calm state of mind and slowly introduce your friends/family to your dog. Let the dog approach and smell them without them being fearful. i have a 5 month old GSD and ive been training him since 8 wks by myself..no special classes. He is very protective of me and the house so ive dealt with these kind of situations. I dont know if this helps you see what im trying to say but i would love anybodys opinion or feedback.


I hate to break it to you, but a 5 month old puppy is NOT being "protective." They do not have the maturity to know what to protect or not. Your puppy is barking because it is unsure and scared. A 5 month old puppy is equivalent to a 4 year old child. It's a baby. 

I'm all for a dog barking to "alert." But that is as far as it should go. If a stranger comes into your house, and the person is calm and accepting of the person, the dog should be too. It needs to be confident enough in itself and of you not to keep "alerting" after you've come into the mix.

If a dog is barking and being defensive and is told to chill out and it doesn't, that's pure insecurity and being unsure. Think about it--a SchH dog engages when it is told to under the right circumstances. Part of the score is STOPPING the behavior when told or not being engaged aggresively any more (not sure of all the specifics with training--not and SchH person).


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## codmaster

Got to agree - 4-5 mo puppies are not protective - they are just babies.

Got to disagree - about all barking beuing a sign of insecurity. Some of it is just alerting and informing it's pack that something or somebody is here.

The point is that you need your dog to be under control yet still able to make some decisions by itself but listen to you when you tell him something. A normal GSD with a good temperament is accepting of strangers when the owner accepts them in the house or outside of it. And trustworthy around kids and puppies.


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## TYE

codmaster said:


> Got to agree - 4-5 mo puppies are not protective - they are just babies.
> 
> Got to disagree - about all barking beuing a sign of insecurity. Some of it is just alerting and informing it's pack that something or somebody is here.
> 
> The point is that you need your dog to be under control yet still able to make some decisions by itself but listen to you when you tell him something. A normal GSD with a good temperament is accepting of strangers when the owner accepts them in the house or outside of it. And trustworthy around kids and puppies.


  AGREED ! i considered my 5 month old puppie's barkin to be offensive instead of scared and unsure bc he charges at strangers and toward the window when he see's a stranger go by. He go towards the thing he's suppose to be unsure of instead of baking off and running with tail between legs. theres been a couple times when he's actually jumped up and pushed open the door and took off barking and growling at a stranger but fortunately ive been quick enough everytime to catch him before he got to the person. But i can see what your saying and it makes sense.


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## TYE

GSDElsa said:


> I hate to break it to you, but a 5 month old puppy is NOT being "protective." They do not have the maturity to know what to protect or not. Your puppy is barking because it is unsure and scared. A 5 month old puppy is equivalent to a 4 year old child. It's a baby.
> 
> I'm all for a dog barking to "alert." But that is as far as it should go. If a stranger comes into your house, and the person is calm and accepting of the person, the dog should be too. It needs to be confident enough in itself and of you not to keep "alerting" after you've come into the mix.
> 
> If a dog is barking and being defensive and is told to chill out and it doesn't, that's pure insecurity and being unsure. Think about it--a SchH dog engages when it is told to under the right circumstances. Part of the score is STOPPING the behavior when told or not being engaged aggresively any more (not sure of all the specifics with training--not and SchH person).


All dogs are different..no 2 dogs are the same. Maybe my GSD is unsure and maybe he isnt. Like u say he's just a 5 month old puppy so most likely he is unsure. You ever watch the tv show cops and the police ends up catching the bad guys but the police officer's dog (k-9 unit) is still barking and going crazy. To me thats not a sign of being unsure thats a sign of aggression. aha its up for debate, like i say all dogs are different but most likely My pup is just unsure and wants to investigate. I dont see that as a bad thing but most people do.


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## TYE

JKlatsky said:


> Going to also have to disagree with this. A really confident dog doesn't believe anything can hurt it. Consequently they don't really see the need to resort to defensive barking to scare off the intruder. With very confident dogs you more often need a command to "turn them on" as opposed to a command to make them approachable.
> 
> A dog that needs to make itself look bigger and has to bark aggressively is generally what I would consider to be unsure. This is not to say that it's always a bad thing. Often dogs need to believe that there is a threat in order to go into defense, but a stranger on their own should not constitute enough of a threat to send a dog into defense. A really confident dog with good nerves and high threshold tend to assert their territory in more subtle ways. I've seen my older dog just give another dog a look, and they move on. Same with strangers. The dog will square towards the person and give a stare if the person keeps appraoching the dog also moves forward. But no great big barking hackling display. It's up to me though to know what's going on an intercept before there's a problem.
> 
> I think that what you're seeing here with the behavior at home as opposed to outside of the home has to do with the boost the dog gets from being in his home environment. Outside the home, he is more willing to allow his person to take leadership and tolerate outside strangers. At home he has more confidence to try and take on things that are "out of place" like strangers in his house.
> 
> We had a Mastiff once that was fearful. In her home and behind her fence she was a beast. You would think she would come right over the fence. Not a chance. In the home she'd follow very closely on your heels waiting for you to do something. When you did she'd get the barking going and charge. She hated it when she'd slide on the tile and actually touch you. She wanted to intimidate you and make you gone, but she did not want to engage the stranger in any meaninful combative way. Outside the home she was much more tolerant. No barking and would generally stay right next to you. Outside the home she lost all control of the situation and had to cope in another way. You could see small signls that would indicate she was uncomfortable like yawning, lip licking, turning her head away from the stranger. She wasn't a mean dog. I think she wanted to like people, she was just afraid.


 its cool. You dont have to agree with me. About your mastiff, i read that those are the #1 guard dogs. Do you think socializing that mastiff might have changed his/her attitude toward people and maybe make the mastiff less fearful of people??? Im still working with my dog in letting him know its okay when i do welcome a stranger into the house. His attitude is more aggressive rather than unsure because he trys to attack rather than run away and he doesnt wait until he's backed into the corner. Im working on it though maybe it does have to do with him being unsure and maybe it doesnt??? :crazy:


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## onyx'girl

A GSD of steady temperament will not try to "attack" or "run away"...they will be neutral and assess a situation, show no reactive behavior. 
A 5 month old pup is waay too young to even process situations,and should know that his owner is there to protect him. You may want to see what you can do to build your pups confidence,it sounds to me from what you write, he needs to feel more secure in his own environment.


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## codmaster

TYE said:


> ...... Im still working with my dog in letting him know its okay when i do welcome a stranger into the house. His attitude is more aggressive rather than unsure because he trys to attack rather than run away and he doesnt wait until he's backed into the corner. Im working on it though maybe it does have to do with him being unsure and maybe it doesnt??? :crazy:


Don't forget also that a lot of dogs will bark at a stranger (even ones that are fearful) BUT one big difference is what does the dog do if the target of barking starts to do something offensive like yelling and coming at the dog in a strong manner. I.e. why they have the courage test in Sch trials. A young puppy is barking to alert usually and will almost always run away if the going gets rough (or scary) as well they should at that age.

I am curious as to what specific behavior your dog does when you refer to "trys to attack"?


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## Gib Laut

OP: I live in a very isolated area and had to deal with this very issue. My expectation of Dexter is that he is to be protective of his property and to alert when there is a stranger or visitor, but he needed to learn to control that behavior. I utilized friends/family as "bait" and when he alerts he is told good boy, but when I go see and determine everything is cool, then it's "enough".....he had to learn that when I say it's ok and say enough, it means stop. In terms of meeting the new people on the property, I had him on a short lead attached for control and asked the visitor to use the no look, no talk, no touch rule (cheery voice, eye contact, waving arms tended to raise his anxiety at first) for the first minute or so and it worked very well for him to learn my expectations and to learn to allow the stranger when I say so.....if your dog won't settle in the home with strangers, sometimes teaching the dog to lay on their bed or in the crate can help with feeling more secure. Just my thoughts.


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## TYE

codmaster said:


> Don't forget also that a lot of dogs will bark at a stranger (even ones that are fearful) BUT one big difference is what does the dog do if the target of barking starts to do something offensive like yelling and coming at the dog in a strong manner. I.e. why they have the courage test in Sch trials. A young puppy is barking to alert usually and will almost always run away if the going gets rough (or scary) as well they should at that age.
> 
> I am curious as to what specific behavior your dog does when you refer to "trys to attack"?


 im curiouto what he would do as well but i have never let him get ahold of anybody fearful that he might hurt some one. but when i was walking him a stranger stoppeded me to ask about my GSD bc he never seen an all black one before my dog was pulling the chain barking and i had him set and told him it was okay and i had him by myside on the leash as i was talking to the stranger and as i stook out my hand to shake the strangers hand , the stranger reached out to shake my hand and as he went to touch me my GSD jumped up and tryed to bite his hand....how would u interpret that behavior???


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## TYE

Gib Laut said:


> OP: I live in a very isolated area and had to deal with this very issue. My expectation of Dexter is that he is to be protective of his property and to alert when there is a stranger or visitor, but he needed to learn to control that behavior. I utilized friends/family as "bait" and when he alerts he is told good boy, but when I go see and determine everything is cool, then it's "enough".....he had to learn that when I say it's ok and say enough, it means stop. In terms of meeting the new people on the property, I had him on a short lead attached for control and asked the visitor to use the no look, no talk, no touch rule (cheery voice, eye contact, waving arms tended to raise his anxiety at first) for the first minute or so and it worked very well for him to learn my expectations and to learn to allow the stranger when I say so.....if your dog won't settle in the home with strangers, sometimes teaching the dog to lay on their bed or in the crate can help with feeling more secure. Just my thoughts.


 thanks for the advice, my brother is in town visiting tomorrow so i will use him and see if this technique will work for me as well. I definately believe that controlling your dog's aggression is important. so i'll see how it goes


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## TYE

onyx'girl said:


> A GSD of steady temperament will not try to "attack" or "run away"...they will be neutral and assess a situation, show no reactive behavior.
> A 5 month old pup is waay too young to even process situations,and should know that his owner is there to protect him. You may want to see what you can do to build your pups confidence,it sounds to me from what you write, he needs to feel more secure in his own environment.


 agreed, do you have any ideas or suggestions on how i can build his confidence?? shhould i socialize him more with people??


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## codmaster

TYE said:


> im curiouto what he would do as well but i have never let him get ahold of anybody fearful that he might hurt some one. but when i was walking him a stranger stoppeded me to ask about my GSD bc he never seen an all black one before my dog was pulling the chain barking and i had him set and told him it was okay and i had him by myside on the leash as i was talking to the stranger and as i stook out my hand to shake the strangers hand , the stranger reached out to shake my hand and as he went to touch me my GSD jumped up and tryed to bite his hand....how would u interpret that behavior???


*Some here may disagree with me, but i think that a 5 month old puppy should be outgoing and friendly with almost any strangers that he meets, certainly with friendly non threatening people he should be. They will develop their more suspicious nature as they get closer to adulthood.*

*If a 5 month old puppy tried a serious bite attempt I would RUN, not walk to a dog behaviorist as soon as I could to see if they could say why. That to me is not good or expected behavior. It may be a fear aggression reaction but that would be what the behaviorist could much better explain. I definetly would not want or expect my adult male GSD to react that way with a friendly stranger.*


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## onyx'girl

To build confidence is to not give corrections at all, but redirect behavior you feel is inappropriate. If pup is over the top, crate him for a cooldown.
Make everything fun, fun, fun for him and play lots of tug let him win, but end the game while he still wants more. Keep a few high value toys that only you use when interacting(he can have other toys on his own, but the ones with you alone have more value in his mind) Obedience training will build confidence, huge praise, treats when he gets a command or position right. Keep the sessions very short and happy, end them positively.
My pup was very well behaved, and I didn't have to do any correcting or redirecting on him at all(not the norm, I know) he is very happy, and of great temperament will listen to me when I do a verbal correction only at 13 months. His recall is so far 100% as well, he is so willing to please. 
If your pup has good food drive use it to your advantage.


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## JKlatsky

codmaster said:


> *Some here may disagree with me, but i think that a 5 month old puppy should be outgoing and friendly with almost any strangers that he meets, certainly with friendly non threatening people he should be. They will develop their more suspicious nature as they get closer to adulthood.*
> 
> *If a 5 month old puppy tried a serious bite attempt I would RUN, not walk to a dog behaviorist as soon as I could to see if they could say why. That to me is not good or expected behavior. It may be a fear aggression reaction but that would be what the behaviorist could much better explain. I definetly would not want or expect my adult male GSD to react that way with a friendly stranger.*


 
You won't get any disagreement from me. I think you're right on.


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## Liesje

TYE said:


> considered my 5 month old puppie's barkin to be offensive instead of scared and unsure bc he charges at strangers and toward the window when he see's a stranger go by. He go towards the thing he's suppose to be unsure of instead of baking off and running with tail between legs.


He's doing this because it's self-rewarding. He is insecure about the possible threat, so instead of waiting to see what the threat will do, he takes action first. Then, because he's inside and the other person is outside probably unaware the dog is even there, he sees the stranger walk away and in his mind, he's won because he got aggressive and the stranger left.

I personally would be concerned with this behavior at this age and do everything I could to prevent it and socialize the dog. He's way over reacting. A stranger walking by outside the window is not a threat at all. If anything he should want to go out and lick them.


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## TYE

Liesje said:


> He's doing this because it's self-rewarding. He is insecure about the possible threat, so instead of waiting to see what the threat will do, he takes action first. Then, because he's inside and the other person is outside probably unaware the dog is even there, he sees the stranger walk away and in his mind, he's won because he got aggressive and the stranger left.
> 
> I personally would be concerned with this behavior at this age and do everything I could to prevent it and socialize the dog. He's way over reacting. A stranger walking by outside the window is not a threat at all. If anything he should want to go out and lick them.


the 1st paragraph made sense to me and i would agree to some extent. But if i wanted my GERMAN SHEPHERD to run outside when he saw a stranger and walk up to someone he doesnt know and lick them then i would have bought me a labrador retriever or a yorkie. haha


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## Liesje

Oh believe me I have no problems with a dog being appropriately protective and even trained to pursue and bite but a 5 month old puppy? IMO it's just very damaging for the dog's psyche to live with that stress as a baby and not have it properly addressed. If you want your dog trained to be a PPD, find a good trainer and have him evaluated. If he is charging the window already at 5 months, that's just over the top and he'll be a liability later on. Wouldn't you want a protection dog that you can control?


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## IllinoisNative

My shepherd didn't start alerting to strangers until he was 7-8 months old. Five months seems too young to be engaging in this type of behavior. I, personally, would be doing everything in my power to socialize this dog to everything under the sun to make him more secure. A puppy should be welcoming to everyone at such a young age. Socialization allows the dog to learn what is acceptable/normal behavior and what isn't. If he's acting like this to something that isn't a threat at this age, that would be worrisome to me.

A GSD is not a Golden Retriever or a Lab but a puppy is still a puppy and should behave appropriately, regardless. I don't think anyone is arguing that a GSD shouldn't be protective. The issue is the age and the behavior combined.

I've had Shepherds, Siberian Huskies, Chows, Golden Retrievers, and mutts. None of them displayed that behavior at five months old including the Chow. And, trust me, that dog doesn't mess around on property.


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## codmaster

A 5 month old puppy is still very much a baby and as several folks have already said should be friendly to everyone at that age. I would be very worried about my pup if he were suspicious of people or other dogs at that age. And doing everything in my power to socialize him to everything that I could to let him know that the world and strangers are great things - plenty of time later for him to realize that there might be some bodies and things that he has to learn about that may not be friendly.

much easier and more effective to work in that direction than try to convince a suspicious dog that some people and things are actually friendly. Build his confidence and friendliness - the suspicious stuff comes much later along with the maturity to be discening!


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## TYE

IllinoisNative said:


> My shepherd didn't start alerting to strangers until he was 7-8 months old. Five months seems too young to be engaging in this type of behavior. I, personally, would be doing everything in my power to socialize this dog to everything under the sun to make him more secure. A puppy should be welcoming to everyone at such a young age. Socialization allows the dog to learn what is acceptable/normal behavior and what isn't. If he's acting like this to something that isn't a threat at this age, that would be worrisome to me.
> 
> A GSD is not a Golden Retriever or a Lab but a puppy is still a puppy and should behave appropriately, regardless. I don't think anyone is arguing that a GSD shouldn't be protective. The issue is the age and the behavior combined.
> 
> I've had Shepherds, Siberian Huskies, Chows, Golden Retrievers, and mutts. None of them displayed that behavior at five months old including the Chow. And, trust me, that dog doesn't mess around on property.


 like i said no 2 dogs are the same....i cant control the fact that my GSD is only 5 months and doing this, it caught me off guard as well bc of how young he is , he hasnt been trained to be mean or anything i show my puppy love , attention and affection just like most of you show your dogs i would assume...thats why i put this on here to get advice since i see now that this behavir is unusual. i thought it was normal for a GSD to be this way bc of the info i read on them before i got my dog but i didnt know that his age was a problem????? so i would appreciate if someone could give me some useful advice, if thats not a problem instead of bashing me about my dogs age, i know how old he is but hey like i said NO 2 dogs are da same and i cant help if my GSD has picked this up at 5 months of age. So everybody I KNOW TH MY GSD IS 5 MONTHS OF AGE and from what u guys are posting i guess his behavior is very UNACCEPTABLE for his age and should be corrected, so can anybody let me know what i can do to help him on this situation???? thanx * i hope i didnt offend anybody , i apologize if i did*


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## TYE

codmaster said:


> A 5 month old puppy is still very much a baby and as several folks have already said should be friendly to everyone at that age. I would be very worried about my pup if he were suspicious of people or other dogs at that age. And doing everything in my power to socialize him to everything that I could to let him know that the world and strangers are great things - plenty of time later for him to realize that there might be some bodies and things that he has to learn about that may not be friendly.
> 
> much easier and more effective to work in that direction than try to convince a suspicious dog that some people and things are actually friendly. Build his confidence and friendliness - the suspicious stuff comes much later along with the maturity to be discening!


 thanks for the advice...this is what im talking about  my only concern is that he will definately try to bite the stranger so im going to the local pet store today to buy a muzzle bc i do not want anybody who isnt trying Thanx


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## TYE

another thing, my dog is VERY well trained as far as obedience, he knows how to sit, laydown, shake, heel, and even the command "release" when he has somthing in his mouth, and i walk him 2 miles everyday, he just has a lot of aggression and i thought it was completely normal for the GSD and didnt knw he was to young to be behaving that way. So i dont want any of u guys thinking i dont have any control over my dog and that im just a nut case bc that is not the situation at all i just never corrected his aggrssion bc i thought it was normal. He's a big baby and is a very very good dog but the minute he see's stranger he turns into a whole new dog...so im listening to all advice, Thanx to all .


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## Liesje

If he were my dog, I'd do this.....first, do not give him access to the window where he is charging and barking at strangers going by. Second, I'd find a good trainer or behaviorist and keep up with the training using positive and motivational methods. The puppy needs a confidence boost, when he feels more secure he won't be so reactive at every other person. He needs to develop a bond with you and trust you so that you can control him and that he *will* react later when there is a real threat. 

If he is close enough to bite a stranger and need a muzzle, my solution would be move away, that's too close. I would not put a muzzle on him and force him to remain in situations that make him so uncomfortable he would bite a complete stranger. If you keep putting him in that situation and take away his defenses, he's only going to get more reactive and distrustful of you. You have to manage the environment around the dog so he's setup for success every time. That may mean avoiding strangers for a few months while you work hard on his obedience and building his confidence and bond with you. 

He is very young and GSDs often go through periods of fear and insecurity at this age. What you are describing is not all that rare but allowing it to continue and encouraging it is doing a disservice to the dog. I would just let him be a puppy, he's just a toddler he should not be expected to protect you at this age. Play with him, show affection, play lots of motivational games and do obedience with good rewards.

That's what I would do if he were my dog.


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## onyx'girl

TYE, are you in any classes with your pup? This will help both of you, him to see strangers aren't a threat and then you will both get stronger in his commands with the distractions group training provides. If you've gone thru a class, enroll in another, and another, and another....neverending fun!


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## GSDElsa

Um, I think about everyone in this thread has said to SOCIALIZE YOUR DOG.

Get him out meeting people and learn they are great. Put him in classes. Take him to the store in the car with you. SOCIALIZE SOCIALIZE SOCIALIZE.

Everyone has said it. That's how to fix it.


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## IllinoisNative

TYE said:


> like i said no 2 dogs are the same....i cant control the fact that my GSD is only 5 months and doing this, it caught me off guard as well bc of how young he is ,


IMO, you can control it. The reason why he's doing this is the lack of socialization. While you may think you're doing a good job of socializing, it's obviously not enough for this dog. IMO, a GSD can't have too much socialization during the puppy period. Of course, that's provided that there is nothing physically/mentally wrong with the dog. It's your job to make this happen and it is in your control. It's a huge responsibility to have a dog like this and that responsibility shouldn't be taken lightly. Your actions and how your dog behaves contributes to the public's perception of this breed.



> so i would appreciate if someone could give me some useful advice, if thats not a problem instead of bashing me about my dogs age, i know how old he is but hey like i said NO 2 dogs are da same and i cant help if my GSD has picked this up at 5 months of age.


Nobody is bashing. We're telling you to socialize your dog. That's how you stop this behavior. But if you thought that behavior was normal in a GSD puppy, you didn't do your research before getting this breed of dog. Saying two dogs aren't the same doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It explains nothing and justifies nothing. That has nothing to do with why your dog is acting this way. But, yes, you can help it and that is what people are trying to tell you. But if you think this is normal and people are telling you it's not, that isn't bashing. That's trying to get you to understand that it's not normal behavior.



> i hope i didnt offend anybody , i apologize if i did*


You didn't offend. You have to socialize your dog. Take him everywhere with you...to the park, to the vet, in the car. Expose him to children, old people, people of different races, people with hats, people in wheel chairs, dogs, etc. He's acting this way because he's not sure of how to act because nobody is telling him what is acceptable behavior.



TYE said:


> another thing, my dog is VERY well trained as far as obedience, he knows how to sit, laydown, shake, heel, and even the command "release" when he has somthing in his mouth, and i walk him 2 miles everyday,


Knowing commands isn't the same as socialization...and that is where the problem is.



GSDElsa said:


> Um, I think about everyone in this thread has said to SOCIALIZE YOUR DOG..


Exactly.


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## codmaster

TYE said:


> another thing, my dog is VERY well trained as far as obedience, he knows how to sit, laydown, shake, heel, and even the command "release" when he has somthing in his mouth, and i walk him 2 miles everyday, he just has a lot of aggression and i thought it was completely normal for the GSD and didnt knw he was to young to be behaving that way. So i dont want any of u guys thinking i dont have any control over my dog and that im just a nut case bc that is not the situation at all i just never corrected his aggrssion bc i thought it was normal. He's a big baby and is a very very good dog but the minute he see's stranger he turns into a whole new dog...so im listening to all advice, Thanx to all .


Tye,
It is great that you are concerned enough about your puppy to tune in here. As others have already said, I would be very concerned about a 5 month old puppy acting so aggressively. Almost certainly at that age it is fear (or uncertainty) based not a true protectivness reaction. He is way too young to be acting so aggressively. You really need to get him out among new people and new experiences so he can get used to them so he sees what is going on in the world and gets to know more stuff so he can then begin to discern true threats from just normal stuff. Have him meet and greet as many new things as you can get him to - people and just all kind of things. Don't force him into things but let his natural curiosity take over and see things and people at his own pace - and be sure NOT to praise or comfort him if he does act nervous around some things or people. That would just reinforce that behavior.

Even future Sch/protection dogs should learn to be friendly and outgoing at 5 months.

It is not normal for young puppies to be aggressive at such a young age but is often too common due primarilly to a lack of good socialization. BTW, I wouls also not use a muzzle as it will most definetly cause a very negative reaction among many people that you may meet out socializing. If you can it would also be very helpful to have as many people as you can come visit you and your pup at home so he gets used to this also and learns that most people that come by and that you greet and let in are friendly and are to be greeted and treated accordingly.

Good luck and stay in touch with this thread!


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## TYE

onyx'girl said:


> TYE, are you in any classes with your pup? This will help both of you, him to see strangers aren't a threat and then you will both get stronger in his commands with the distractions group training provides. If you've gone thru a class, enroll in another, and another, and another....neverending fun!


 we currently arent in classes now, but i will definately look into getting involved with one....im actually talking to a dog trainer right now who trains german shepherds. so we'll see what happens , thanx.


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## TYE

codmaster said:


> Tye,
> It is great that you are concerned enough about your puppy to tune in here. As others have already said, I would be very concerned about a 5 month old puppy acting so aggressively. Almost certainly at that age it is fear (or uncertainty) based not a true protectivness reaction. He is way too young to be acting so aggressively. You really need to get him out among new people and new experiences so he can get used to them so he sees what is going on in the world and gets to know more stuff so he can then begin to discern true threats from just normal stuff. Have him meet and greet as many new things as you can get him to - people and just all kind of things. Don't force him into things but let his natural curiosity take over and see things and people at his own pace - and be sure NOT to praise or comfort him if he does act nervous around some things or people. That would just reinforce that behavior.
> 
> Even future Sch/protection dogs should learn to be friendly and outgoing at 5 months.
> 
> It is not normal for young puppies to be aggressive at such a young age but is often too common due primarilly to a lack of good socialization. BTW, I wouls also not use a muzzle as it will most definetly cause a very negative reaction among many people that you may meet out socializing. If you can it would also be very helpful to have as many people as you can come visit you and your pup at home so he gets used to this also and learns that most people that come by and that you greet and let in are friendly and are to be greeted and treated accordingly.
> 
> Good luck and stay in touch with this thread!


 thank you for responding, i appreciate it. yes i agree that his behavior is just him being unsure, just yesterday we had a cookout and i had my GSD in the kitechen with me and my little cousin came running into the kitechen while he was eating and he looked up and started barking and chased her into the bathroom, it was a little scary because i didnt know if he would bite her or not but she ran into the bathroom and shut the door before he reached her so me and my pup have A LOT of work to do. 

another thing i wanted to mention is, me and my dog have a really really tight bond ive had him by my side everyday sense he has been 8 weeks old, everywhere i go he follows. i cant even take a shower without him being in the bathroom with me, if i leave out of his site he goes CRAZY barking and crying i have to put him in the kennel when i leave home for work or to run errands or he will destroy everything in site, literally so he has some seperation anxiety unless he's in his kennel then he's pretty much okay but do u think this tight bond with me could be another reason why he acts the way he does towards strangers??? he's a big baby at heart but its just strangers he goes crazy when he see's them :help:


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## TYE

GSDElsa said:


> Um, I think about everyone in this thread has said to SOCIALIZE YOUR DOG.
> 
> Get him out meeting people and learn they are great. Put him in classes. Take him to the store in the car with you. SOCIALIZE SOCIALIZE SOCIALIZE.
> 
> Everyone has said it. That's how to fix it.


 OKAY BUT U CANT TAKE A DOG WHO HAS TRYED TO ATTACK AND BITE PEOPLE AND JUST TAKE HIM TO THE PARK WITH A BUNCH OF STRANGERS AND KIDS , BC WHAT IF HE BITES SOMEBODY?? THEN WHAT?? I LOSE MY DOG AND THATS A LAWSUIT, UNLESS U WOULD LIKE TO PAY THAT FOR ME , im asking for SPECIFIC ways of how i can socialize him without him feeling cornered in and pushed into it and some way thats safe for the strangers i will be socializing him with. so i dont need your sarcasim. I care a lot about my dog and im not risking him biting somebody, thats why i want to see if there was people out there who has the same problem as me or give me some advice about what i can do and i must say A LOT of you guys on here have been very helpful, i just dont want him biting anybody.


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## LaRen616

Hello Tye!!!! How are you doing? 

I thought maybe I could give you some help?

I dont know if this will or will not help your puppy, but it might.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/stories/134368-socialize-socialize-socialize.html

Let me know if anything helps you, take care 

Have you tried to put him with other puppies?

You can give him treats whenever he plays nice with a dog

Have your friends and family give him treats when they see him, he will associate people with good things


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## JKlatsky

TYE said:


> OKAY BUT U CANT TAKE A DOG WHO HAS TRYED TO ATTACK AND BITE PEOPLE AND JUST TAKE HIM TO THE PARK WITH A BUNCH OF STRANGERS AND KIDS , BC WHAT IF HE BITES SOMEBODY?? THEN WHAT?? I LOSE MY DOG AND THATS A LAWSUIT, UNLESS U WOULD LIKE TO PAY THAT FOR ME , im asking for SPECIFIC ways of how i can socialize him without him feeling cornered in and pushed into it and some way thats safe for the strangers i will be socializing him with. so i dont need your sarcasim. I care a lot about my dog and im not risking him biting somebody, thats why i want to see if there was people out there who has the same problem as me or give me some advice about what i can do and i must say A LOT of you guys on here have been very helpful, i just dont want him biting anybody.


 
But you can! I personally think a lot of socialization is EXPOSURE, not interaction. My puppy and I went to Lowe's the other day. No one pet him, but he got to SEE a lot of different people and things. 

I would take your dog to a Walmart or the grocery store or something and park your butt on a bench a little off the front door with your dog. Make sure he's hungry and have plenty of treats. Maybe the first time you do this you don't let anyone pet your dog. You protect his space and don't allow anyone to get into it. Teach him a "Watch" command to look at you. When he looks at you and ignores the strangers- praise and treat him. If he barks you correct and give the "watch" command and when he complies you praise and reward. And then maybe the next time if he does well you let someone give him a treat and you build in small steps from there.

You can also do this with walks in different places. I wouldn't pick a really busy place to start with, but you should make a committment to take him someplace new everyday. Don't let him visit with people or dogs initially. Don't ever let him offlead, because you need to be able to control him. But get him used to SEEING strangers and being unconcerned first. Then you can work towards interaction.


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## TYE

LaRen616 said:


> Hello Tye!!!! How are you doing?
> 
> I thought maybe I could give you some help?
> 
> I dont know if this will or will not help your puppy, but it might.
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/stories/134368-socialize-socialize-socialize.html
> 
> Let me know if anything helps you, take care
> 
> Have you tried to put him with other puppies?
> 
> You can give him treats whenever he plays nice with a dog
> 
> Have your friends and family give him treats when they see him, he will associate people with good things


 i have tryed associating him with other puppies but he plays much to rough , he's very big..5 months and about 50+ lbs. he listens GREAT though so i should have no problem with him being more gentle with other puppies. i have currently been taking him to parks where there are other people and dogs and he still gets very aggressive but now im starting to notice that he's doing less of it and instead of jumping straight to aggression he's pausing with his ears up and alert and focusing on the stranger and just watch their every move and then simply goes about his business after he see's that they are no threat. so we're making progress *THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR YOUR HELP !* :wild:


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## LaRen616

Great!!! Glad to hear he is making progress!!!! :happyboogie:

It's a shame we dont live closer, Sinister loves to play rough with other dogs, his best friend is a male GSD that is about 10 pounds heavier than him and when they wrestle it looks dangerous, but they are just too big over grown puppies


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## TYE

JKlatsky said:


> But you can! I personally think a lot of socialization is EXPOSURE, not interaction. My puppy and I went to Lowe's the other day. No one pet him, but he got to SEE a lot of different people and things.
> 
> I would take your dog to a Walmart or the grocery store or something and park your butt on a bench a little off the front door with your dog. Make sure he's hungry and have plenty of treats. Maybe the first time you do this you don't let anyone pet your dog. You protect his space and don't allow anyone to get into it. Teach him a "Watch" command to look at you. When he looks at you and ignores the strangers- praise and treat him. If he barks you correct and give the "watch" command and when he complies you praise and reward. And then maybe the next time if he does well you let someone give him a treat and you build in small steps from there.
> 
> You can also do this with walks in different places. I wouldn't pick a really busy place to start with, but you should make a committment to take him someplace new everyday. Don't let him visit with people or dogs initially. Don't ever let him offlead, because you need to be able to control him. But get him used to SEEING strangers and being unconcerned first. Then you can work towards interaction.


 Wow, im anxious to teach him this watch command. sounds fun..Thank you, we'll see how it goes.


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## TYE

LaRen616 said:


> Great!!! Glad to hear he is making progress!!!! :happyboogie:
> 
> It's a shame we dont live closer, Sinister loves to play rough with other dogs, his best friend is a male GSD that is about 10 pounds heavier than him and when they wrestle it looks dangerous, but they are just too big over grown puppies


 it is , that would be pretty awsome for my pup to have another GSD around his size to play with. he loves to play with other dogs he's just rough :hug: haha


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## puppymamma

My boy sounds very similar - his aggressive behaviour is based in fear for sure. Our situation is very similar as well. I agree that he needs exposure and practice as well as something to help him build confidence - in himself and you as a leader. If it helps, mine is just turned two and he is finally starting to make some good decisions. Yesterday he didn't even bark at my neighbour. Last summer that would have been impossible. Be a strong, fair, consistent leader and he will follow you.


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## Kev

Sorry for reviving an old thread.

My pup 5 months does this as well. Fine outside but once in the car or property with me, he goes off with hackles and growling. Lots of lunging too.
If TYE is still with us, did you ever resolve this issue?


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