# What to do with Boots?



## Keauxbi (Dec 12, 2011)

I have a 4-yo GSmix named Boots. My family recently moved from Colorado, where we had adopted Boots, to Michigan. Since we landed here, he has become more independent and has actually become somewhat food/treat aggressive as far as growling whenever anyone comes near and guarding his food/treats. He has done this in the past whenever we had to dog-sit for my father in-law or brother, but never before outside of those two occasions. I believe that I could work with him enough to work this aggression out but unfortunately I am going back to school next month so my time between my son, school and life in general will be 0. My concern is for my 2-yo son and any future children we may have.
My question is this::help:
Should we keep Boots and limit everyone's interactions when feeding/treating OR should we give him up for adoption through a GSD rescue agency?


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

For anyone to answer this question correctly we need a lot more information. Has the dog ever acted aggressive before? How long ago did you move to the new location? Have you done any training with this dog before this? Has there been any other change in the dog's life other than the new place, such as different people or animals in the home, different type area for his own space, different health issues, etc. There are a lot of things that could be part of this behavior. I would at least try a behaviorist before giving up on the dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

"You should train him" ought to be one of the answers.
But I agree with the above poster. We would need a LOT more details. And getting a professional on board never hurts.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

The fact you had to ask is the sad part for me 

That said, if dogs are disposable in your family and that's what you know when you get a pet, contacting a good rescue who will value your dog may work out for the best in the end.

And at least you'll have learned no more pets in the future.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

He sounds easy to manage but it also sounds like you've already written him off so...I would re-home him but I would do it myself, not dump him on the GSD rescue. The Michigan GSD rescue is already working on several other cases.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I think that the OP is more worried about her young children - can't blame her for that. Whatever action you choose to take, make sure it is one you can live with.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Exactly. People re-home dogs all the time for many reasons and I myself have received two re-homed dogs so I can't really be against it, but I would encourage the OP to do it and not involve the rescue. I think the rescue or shelter should be reserved for emergencies like a sudden significant health issue or losing a home or something like that. However, they can contact the MIGSD rescue and they will send an e-mail to all the pre-approved adopters with info about the dog. If the rescue is to be involved I would go that route rather than actually giving the dog up to the rescue especially this time of year.


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## Keauxbi (Dec 12, 2011)

*More info required*

So here is Boots' story. 

My wife & I adopted him from a no-kill shelter in Denver back in July of '08. We have two cats who came before him that we still have. Our son was born in April of last year and we moved back in February of this year. 

When we chose a dog we intentionally picked an independent dog because we knew that our time that we could spend with him directly would be greatly limited. At the time we both worked so he'd be left to his own devices for much of the day. We wanted an intelligent breed that could remember his training long after sessions were done which is why we gravitated toward a GSD or mix. He came fully house broken and knew basic commands, but very basically. I have taught him not to take treats from ANYONE'S hand but to accept them gently. He instinctively knows how to sit now and as far as the driveway and front yard are concerned, he knows that I am in charge. 

As far as his aggression is concerned, as I had previously stated, the only time he growled at me regarding food was when he was around those other dogs. We are looking into training programs, but as I also stated, when I go back to school I will lose a great deal of time that I can devote to training a dog. 

Other than the move there is nothing that I can think of that has changed dramatically in his life to cause this aggression. I don't think that it is directed towards my son because he has done it when my son hasn't been around. 

Lastly I take offense that someone could question the fact that I would consider a dog disposable. Are you implying that I would bring a dog 1300 miles across 5 states just to dispose of them? If I could "dispose" of him I wouldn't need an internet forum to validate that decision.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

welcome to the board. i agree, dispose was maybe not the best choice of words from the prior poster, since you are brand new here. but please understand that anyone who has been here a while or who does rescue has just plain seen too many people who do consider dogs disposable. and maybe has just plain seen too many difficult and painful things that happen to these dogs. all rescues are full to overflowing and truthfully this may very well not be a viable option for you. there is a vast amount of training and health and behavior knowledge here and i urge you to not be so offended that you stop posting, because someone surely can give you opinions that will be helpful to you.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I think your first mistake was choosing a GSD mix when you wanted an independent dog. 'independent' would be the last thing I'd call a german shepherd. They do very poorly when left alone.

I'm in university, and I have way more spare time now than I did when I was working. Why don't you at least wait and see how much time it really takes up. Or start right now before you go back to school? Can you truly not devote maybe half an hour a day to dealing with your dogs food aggression issues?


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

Personally, unless I had tried everything I could think of, I would not yet consider rehoming him. I have been down that road and have been put in that position where I had to make a decision that was best for the dog. But, I did try everything in my power to work on his issues including classes, speaking with vets, consulting vets/behaviorists, and working with local breed "experts" before I just gave up on him.

I agree with the previous poster and wait to see how much time you do have when you go to college. I am also a student, work part-time, am in the National guard, have a toddler, and still have time to work with my dog everyday.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

looks as tho the votes are in.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Keauxbi said:


> So here is Boots' story.
> 
> My wife & I adopted him from a no-kill shelter in Denver back in July of '08. We have two cats who came before him that we still have. Our son was born in April of last year and we moved back in February of this year.
> 
> ...


 
Appears to be a VERY confusing statment.

Just for one example, you claim to have taught your dog "*not to take treats from ANYONE'S hand but to accept them gently".*  If he doesn't take treats from Anyones hand then how does he take them gently? 

*And how in the world could he show aggression taking treats if he won't take them from anyone's hand?*

Might be just me (and old age) but i don't understand what you are saying in the above message. Hopefully someone on here who is much smarter than me can figure out what you really said (and meant!).

BTW, sounds like you have already made your mind up about what you will do with your poor dog.


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## Rahrah (Oct 30, 2011)

I never do 'get' why people think that they can just DUMP their PETS whenever a situation arises.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> The fact you had to ask is the sad part for me
> 
> That said, if dogs are disposable in your family and that's what you know when you get a pet, contacting a good rescue who will value your dog may work out for the best in the end.
> 
> And at least you'll have learned no more pets in the future.


The fact that they even have to make a poster to tell people these things makes me very sad and teary.


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

I say "don't give him the boot!!!"

This doesn't sounds too hard to work through.


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## Keauxbi (Dec 12, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Appears to be a VERY confusing statment.
> 
> Just for one example, you claim to have taught your dog "*not to take treats from ANYONE'S hand but to accept them gently".*  If he doesn't take treats from Anyones hand then how does he take them gently?
> 
> ...


As many dogs that I have been around do, Boots used to snap anything I fed him out of my hand. He wasn't very gentle about it. As soon as he saw the treat he took it. Over time I was able to teach him that he can't just TAKE anything he wants. He has to wait until the giver tells him OK and at that point he must calmly take whatever is given. He still does this.

His aggression comes if the form of raising his hackles and growling, even snarling when anyone comes near something that has been given to him. With his dog bones he'll even turn away from you to put himself in between you and the treat. For adults, it's no big deal. If you had read all of my posts you would realize that I have a very young son. He won't realize until he's much older what a dog's body language means. I don't want an 80lb dog attacking my son because my son can't read the dog's signals. 

The reason I put the post up here is to help me decide if I can reverse Boots' behavior or if it is here to stay. No I have not made up my mind. I was kind of hoping that by posting this question on a dog forum that I could find someone with more dog training experience than myself to give me some advice, but I feel that I am sadly mistaken.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Unfortunately the older a dog gets, the chances of finding him/her a new "safe" home are very slim. 
Please consider the commitment you made to the dog when you adopted him and do the right thing. Shelters and rescues are over whelmed and most of those dogs have desperately sad stories.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

If my dog snapped at my fingers when I gave him treats I would toss the treats on the ground until I figured out how to have him take the treat nicely.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

If it's just food guarding, how about leaving him alone while he eats and not taking his bones away from him? Teach your children this, also. 

Puppies always come into my home as resource guarders, it's easy enough to train out, if you take the time. 

You should also give him some structure in his life and something to do. These dogs need that. I play little obedience games with my dogs when we are stuck inside. It doesn't take much time.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

@keauxbi...i think you've gotten the responses you've gotten because of the way you approached this. you didn't post and ask for *"training help/advice"*. you asked a very different question on a board full of (mostly) very committed dog owners, many who see daily the results of rehoming a dog with issues or the unbelievably tragic endings of dogs who are left at shelters (or worse). if you do decide to rehome your boy, please be careful where he goes. unbelievable things are happening out there. do a home visit. check vet references. be careful.

treats given with closed hand and released slowly while the dog is being told "take it nice" can be very effective.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The responses are typical for a GSD board when someone asks for advise on rehoming their dog. I've been around here for a day or two and the lists are typical. 

First, while the "only" thing that changed was the location (your move) that would be major to your dog. Very major. Think of ALL that's changed with that.

Second, consider getting a health workup at the vets. Often behavior changes are due to a change in health. It bears checking out.

Then - Dogs and babies are not always a good match. Here's what I would do: I would restrict the dog's access to treasures. He would only have a bone when he was crated and then only if he wasn't agressive in the crate (My thoughts are that he will probably feel safe in the crate & will not need to guard beyond being in the crate.) The dog will be fed privately. (Crate may be the answer here too.) I would have NO ONE especially not a child disturb the dog when he is eating.
I would be very sure that he got rewards whenever he was appropriate around people. 

Finally - If I continued to be worried, I would realize that my worry would affect the dog's behavior adversly and I would rehome the dog. For the dog's sake and for my child's sake.
Good luck with your pup and your child. (and school.)


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Keauxbi said:


> The reason I put the post up here is to help me decide if I can reverse Boots' behavior or if it is here to stay. No I have not made up my mind. I was kind of hoping that by posting this question on a dog forum that I could find someone with more dog training experience than myself to give me some advice, but I feel that I am sadly mistaken.


You never really asked for training advice, you asking for rehoming advice because you were going back to school and wouldn't have enough time to train your dog. If you don't have enough time for your dog, what advice can we offer if you won't make the time to follow through?


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm on my third German Shepherd, I've had a chocolate lab, a mixed hound dog, etc. through the years, but the most food-guarding dog I ever owned was a small short beagle. Pup would growl if you came near her eating, and I'd had her since she was 6 weeks old, so it was a personality thing, she'd never been deprived. We once touched her with a broom handle while eating to see what she'd do and she attacked it. I know it's not funny, but it kinda was, because she was so little. She once took a deer leg from a 100 pounds German Shepherd. None of the other dogs would dare to try to take anything from her. Otherwise, she had no aggression in her at all and was happy-go-lucky. We fed her separately, put her bowl up afterwards, never let her eat from our table, made sure any dropped kibble on the floor was put up or pointed out to her, and chews were only allowed with supervision. If she refused to give one up, we'd snag it when she wasn't looking and she'd get it back when we felt like giving it to her. She eventually quit showing people aggression with food, but I always had to feed her separately from other dogs, or she'd eat her food real fast them bully them off of theirs. If food is the only aggression, it's really not that hard to work around.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Syaoransbear said:


> You never really asked for training advice, you asking for rehoming advice because you were going back to school and wouldn't have enough time to train your dog. If you don't have enough time for your dog, what advice can we offer if you won't make the time to follow through?


The cavalier nature of it all..."time to say good-bye" got me.
That's not the attitude of someone who would like to work on the issue with their dog. 
And that's fine, but as pointed out, most people here on the board come for help and to learn how to address issues, not just get rid of the dog.



> We fed her separately, put her bowl up afterwards, never let her eat from our table, made sure any dropped kibble on the floor was put up or pointed out to her, and chews were only allowed with supervision. If she refused to give one up, we'd snag it when she wasn't looking and she'd get it back when we felt like giving it to her. She eventually quit showing people aggression with food, but I always had to feed her separately from other dogs, or she'd eat her food real fast them bully them off of theirs. If food is the only aggression, it's really not that hard to work around.


Good advice


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> The cavalier nature of it all..."time to say good-bye" got me.
> That's not the attitude of someone who would like to work on the issue with their dog.
> And that's fine, but as pointed out, most people here on the board come for help and to learn how to address issues, not just get rid of the dog.


Yeah, I understand. We see too many rehomed or euthanized dogs, often for simple, workable problems or convenience. My sister fosters dogs and it's downright unbelievable. I read fear, though. And in her defense, maternal instinct is strong and fear in protecting a child above anything else is a real concern. I love my dogs dearly but if I ever truly feared for my child, the dogs would not be my first consideration, either. Maybe reassurance that this problem is, indeed, often one that can reasonably be dealt with, in the best interests of both the child and the dog, may be all she needs. It may be just a matter of taking control of the environment, which isn't that difficult to do, even with a busy schedule (I myself am holding down a house, 30 acres, a full-time job and am a part-time college student). I am also a firm believer in teaching children from a very young age to have respect and regard for dogs, so I think this could potentially be a good learning experience for all involved.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

Not sure if your still around but I wanted to offer a little advice. I think you got the response you did in large part by posting such a question (on a website filled with dedicated dog lovers) as a "Poll". I apologize but idea of using a Poll to decide such a thing is unthinkable to me. 

Having said that it could be that your dog is suffering from the move and the all the changes in his/her life? Perhaps he/she is guarding suddenly as they don't feel safe and secure yet in their new enviorment?


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Keauxbi said:


> When we chose a dog we intentionally picked an independent dog because we knew that our time that we could spend with him directly would be greatly limited.


I'm sorry, but I think this was your first - and biggest - mistake. These are just not "sit around and hang out and leave me alone" dogs. They want engagment. I applaud you for rescuing, but another breed, perhaps a senior of another breed even, would've likely suited your needs far better.



Syaoransbear said:


> You never really asked for training advice, you asking for rehoming advice because you were going back to school and wouldn't have enough time to train your dog. If you don't have enough time for your dog, what advice can we offer if you won't make the time to follow through?


A touch harsh, but true, sorry. This thing will require a time and effort commitment.



shilohsmom said:


> I think you got the response you did in large part by posting such a question (on a website filled with dedicated dog lovers) as a "Poll". I apologize *but idea of using a Poll to decide such a thing* is unthinkable to me.


Yes, this. Your post, along with a poll, just made it come across as lackadaisical... whimsy... as in, you'd let a bunch of strangers on the net take a poll and decide your dog's fate?

Really, if you don't want to make the time & effort investment that you need to make, then I think you should re-home the dog, but do so yourself. It will take more time, but you can screen people. If you take him back to a shelter, he will likely die there. You don't want that.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

"I have a 4-yo GSmix named Boots. My family recently moved from Colorado, where we had adopted Boots, to Michigan."

EH?!
What is this? The Anguish Languish?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

???


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

paddyd said:


> "i have a 4-yo gsmix named boots. My family recently moved from colorado, where we had adopted boots, to michigan."
> 
> eh?!
> What is this? The anguish languish?


 
roflmao!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

double huh??? 

often i just don't get "jokes", although i am capable of a laugh now and then, but something has to be clearly funny and laughing appropriate...


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I would also have to say that the nonchalant "time to say good bye" got me, as well as putting it as a poll. It shows total disrespect and lack of compassion for the animal IMO. Clearly this is the situation where the dog came in pretty much trained on another person's time and the op admits choosing him and the breed to be as little effort as possible. The op's contribution to the training was the taking of the treats and it sounds like the dog was left to hos own devices. Now the dog will require time and effort so a poll of strangers is to say whether it is "time to say good bye".

The best for this poor boy would be a loving home with people willing to make time for him and work on his training. The attitude of the op clearly indicates that this is not going to happen. If he was adopted from a rescue, maybe they would be willing to take him back. Unfortunately people won't be fighting over a 4yo with resource guarding issues. The op is not the only one who wants the perfect pet with as little effort as possible. Overall, this is a very sad situation for Boots.

I just hope that the op won't take on another animal "to be independent and have a long memory" in the future.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

RebelGSD said:


> I would also have to say that the nonchalant "time to say good bye" got me, as well as putting it as a poll. It shows total disrespect and lack of compassion for the animal IMO. Clearly this is the situation where the dog came in pretty much trained on another person's time and the op admits choosing him and the breed to be as little effort as possible. The op's contribution to the training was the taking of the treats and it sounds like the dog was left to hos own devices. Now the dog will require time and effort so a poll of strangers is to say whether it is "time to say good bye".
> 
> The best for this poor boy would be a loving home with people willing to make time for him and work on his training. The attitude of the op clearly indicates that this is not going to happen. If he was adopted from a rescue, maybe they would be willing to take him back. Unfortunately people won't be fighting over a 4yo with resource guarding issues. The op is not the only one who wants the perfect pet with as little effort as possible. Overall, this is a very sad situation for Boots.
> 
> I just hope that the op won't take on another animal "to be independent and have a long memory" in the future.


Rebel I couldn't agree with you more (and I refuse to vote in his "poll.") In addition to what you have said, it occurred to me that Boots has already been rehomed at least once - now he faces the prospect of having to adjust once again (and who knows where he will end up.) GSD's are resilient, but we don't know what else went into the "mix." It would be an easy fix to deal with his resource guarding - but if this person (or his wife) won't even put the time into a few minutes a day training, what is the chance of them spending perhaps a few months finding the right home for him? I am very, very sad for this boy 
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

it appears that since the op didn't hear what they wanted to hear, they've left the building.

rebel and susan, i think the conclusions you came to are better than the one i came to. i wish i hadn't voted and reading your thoughts will change the way i approach a situation here in the future.

thanks.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Like others said, a GSD is NOT an independent dog. If you want a more independent animal in the future, maybe you should consider a cat. 

I am in a little bit of a similar situation to you. I have a rescue that is dog, resource, people and fear aggressive. She has bitten my other dogs (drawn blood and left scars) and me countless times. I have permanent scars on my arms and legs from her. My family and friends can't understand why I haven't gotten rid of her yet. In all honesty, I would NEVER give her up. She is my responsibility, and I will be her caretaker for the rest of her life. I can't imagine giving up on her. She has been through so much and is such a sweet dog that she deserves a good life with the only happy home she has known. She takes more work than my other dogs combined and is a legitimate danger when she is in one of her moods. But I have learned to work around it. I have to be very vigilant to make sure that I catch her before a situation escalates. I never leave her unsupervised with other dogs or people. We don't go to public places where she can have an accident. She is not allowed around children or strangers. We have a potentially bad situation come up every single day and I have to stick with it to make sure she learns the right thing to do. For example, today she started harassing my male when he had a toy she wanted. I stopped her with a loud command as soon I saw her coming at him with one of her "looks" and had her walk away to another room. Never let a potentially dangerous situation progress. Slowly over time, she has gotten a lot better. It does change for the better, but you have to dedicate a lot of time and effort to your cause. But I am basing this on your description of the dog. From what you said, this dog does not sound like he is beyond repair. There are true problem dogs that can't be fixed...but yours doesn't sound like one of those...

The reality of it is that very few people will take an older dog with known aggression issues. When space runs low, dogs like this get euthanized to make room for more adoptable dogs. Please consider hiring a behaviorist or trainer to help you make positive changes. I wish you the best of luck and completely sympathize with your frustrations...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If the OP is here...



> even snarling when anyone comes near something that has been given to him. With his dog bones he'll even turn away from you to put himself in between you and the treat.


So don't give him bones. Do not give him treats _at all. _
Feed him by hand for the next...however long it takes for your son to get old enough to stay away from him when he's eating.
If necessary, remove toys from the area so he doesn't guard those.

If this behavior is new, 1) see a vet; 2) at the same time, get a behaviorist/trainer on board.

Put up gates, and use them. Give your dog a "time out" spot that isn't for punishment but rather, quiet time away from the child.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Poor Boots, I didnt vote. Boots I hope you find a safe place w/ someone who can work w/ you where you are and help you get to where you can be.


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