# Lack of Energy after switch?



## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

Switched my 7mo old pup about a week ago. I just increased her food to 1.5LB a day (just for the switch) ever since we did the switch she seems to be really lacking energy. She sleeps almost ALL day, barely brings me toys to play with, and in the am after being in her crate all night goes in the living room and lays right down. I'm starting become concerned about her cause she is a pup and should be bouncing off the walls. I'm feeding her a premade chicken mix that's 80% chicken meat and 10% bone and 10% organ meat which consists of liver, kidney and heart. I also mix in pumpkin and salmon oil along with a probiotic. 
I give her chicken and rabbit liver treats along with freeze dried treats from other proteins and some jerky. 
Any suggestions? Should I be concerned? Is this normal due to the switch?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

What jerky?

Any other symptoms?


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

No other symptoms Really, she has good firm stool an appetite and drinks water. But by no means, is she her normal playful puppy self


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If her previous diet had carbs or grains the sugar crash detox may be playing into it. I hope you are feeding a balanced raw diet and the appropriate amount.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

80% meat 10% bone 10% organ 2x day 1LB each time Of chicken


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## McWeagle (Apr 23, 2014)

I really don't know for sure, because I don't feed raw yet, but is it possible that she's just going through one of her final growth spurts and is really tired?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

What brand of jerky? Where does the jerky come from?

Same questions for the freeze dried treats.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

The jerky and freeze dried stuff are made in America and come from a quality store. The jerky is either Salmon, Beef, Turkey, and Venison. The freeze dried stuff is either Rabbit, Beef or Turkey.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

What is the name of your raw food so we can look at it? Is she still having problems with hard stools?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Kaia9514 said:


> The jerky and freeze dried stuff are made in America and come from a quality store. The jerky is either Salmon, Beef, Turkey, and Venison. The freeze dried stuff is either Rabbit, Beef or Turkey.


Kala, it needs to say Made and SOURCED ingredients from the USA.
Companies import ingredients "from other countries" to use in their products, but put them together here in the US so they can say "Made in the USA".

What are the "BRAND NAMES" of the treats?

Moms


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

Ya it's all sourced and made in the U.S.A. The raw we are feeding is called Raaw Energy it's local here in NJ and my trainer has been using it for about 2 years now and said that she hasn't had a problem. 
The jerky is Colorado Naturals salmon and turkey, also Blue Buffalo beef. 
The freeze dried stuff is Sojos lamb, beef, and rabbit aND natures variety freeze dried. 
Her stool has gotten better and easier for her to move but today had A LOT of mucous in it. I appreciate the help from everyone I am getting nervous about it although today she seems to have a little more pep in her step.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

The freeze dried liver I have is from pure Bites. I believe I have bison, rabbit, and chicken.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I think people should just stay away from any kind of commercially purchased jerky
Regulators warn that “Made in the USA” doesn’t mean all ingredients are sourced in America.   “Pet owners should be aware that manufacturers do not need to list the country of origin for each ingredient used in their products, and thus may still contain ingredients sourced from China or other countries that export to the U.S.,” the FDA said in February.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Mucus in the stool means the intestine is very irritated. Your dog might have a problem with eating chicken.
Also, that particular brand of jerky has been problematic before.
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...lls-of-us-made-pet-jerky-treats-fda-says?lite


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

Ok. Right now I'm more worried about the lack of energy. We're going to try a different protein soon and see how she does with that. 
I also have a bag of Nature's Variety rabbit I am going to throw in with her food tomorrow


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

That is what we are trying to tell you, the lack of energy is more than likely caused by something she is eating that is making her sick.

No one feels like bouncing around when they have a stomachache.

What I would do is go back to feeding what I was feeding before, when she was not having problems. If that solves it, there you have it.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

I wasn't feeding raw before. I was feeding kibble but she also had belly issues on the kibble. Poo was soft and she was gaining weight.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Kaia9514 said:


> I wasn't feeding raw before. I was feeding kibble but she also had belly issues on the kibble. Poo was soft and she was gaining weight.


Ok, so the kibble was a problem, too.

In my experience, chicken was a problem. I'm wondering if the kibble also contained chicken. 

Your dog may be like mine, unable to tolerate poultry, in which case, it is pretty tough to feed them raw, because beef bones are too hard. It must be ground.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Mucous could also be a parasite or bacteria issue. 
Are you giving probiotic or kefir? She could have weak digestion from the kibble and a slight bacteria problem from switching to raw. Probiotic or kefir (much higher in probiotics than yogurt) will put back in balance. You could fast her for a meal. Amp up the probiotics. Is she drinking well?


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

She gets a probiotic with each meal http://www.petkelp.com/product/pet-kelp-probiotic-formula/
She also gets salmon oil with each meal as well as 2 TBSPN of pumpkin with each meal...
Does it sound like she's sick?
She drinks water but not nearly as much as she did when she was getting kibble.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

The 2 tablespoons of pumpkin might be way too much.
Take that out and see what happens.
How much oil are you giving her?

Not actually sick, but not well, either. It is not normal for a dog to sleep that much and be lethargic. Mucous is the lining of the intestine being shed.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

Without the pumpkin she struggles somewhat to have a bowel movement. I know it might be too much bone but 10% doesn't seem like much to me.
Shedding of her intestine? If I go to the vet and she says it's the raw I'm not really sure what to do cause I have 60LB of chicken left and won't be able to get another shipment of raw of a different protein for about 2 weeks.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

I give her 1 pump of salmon oil with each meal. The suggested serving size for her is 2 pumps a day.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Take this for what it's worth ok and it's just my opinion and some reading between the lines. 

I think you've done too much abit to fast. I don't think it is the raw not agreeing but I think when there is so much being given at the beginning, it makes it tough to identify what the cause of issues may be. 
If you dog continues to be constipated, there is too much bone. The problem is, 10% is not too much in my opinion. I feed much more than that and have never seen my dog struggle with constipation. My customers have not had issues with constipation. That leads me to believe your mix is higher than 10%. You need to add more muscle meats or tripe to help with the dry stools. 
With your dog being a puppy, it's even more important you know the diet is balanced and is what you supplier says it is. 
I would cut out everything but the balanced mix, add some muscle meat and see if problems resolve. If not, I would either find a new raw supplier or find your own meats and make your own raw so you can control the quality and bone % etc.

1. Clean simple balanced meat blend. (No more treats, Jerky etc. for now)

2. Feedsentials

3. Shemp Oil


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

I couldn't find another raw supplier who's prices compare to this guy's. I might try to switch it up next time to a fattier meat such as beef and Lamb. 
How would I go about grounding up and making my own raw food? Do you wait till the chicken goes on sale for .99$ a LB and but a ton of chicken breasts?
If I can come close to it being the same price I will make my own but would like to do it ground up. 
I also have freeze dried tripe cookies that I throw in once every other meal as well as lamb lung that is high in fiber.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

More fat is not needed, more muscle meat is needed, if you say she "struggles" to poop.
Dogs who are raw fed strain a little. The poo doesn't slide out as with kibble, and that is a good thing. 

I would stop all extras. Just feed the mix for a week and see how she does. If she is whining and can't poop, add a little extra muscle meat. Too much fatty meat can give dogs pancreatitis. 
And you don't need to grind the food, if you feed chicken.


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

I don't have muscle meat cause it's a premade mix. 
What should I add if I were to go to the supermarket?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Mucous is the bodies defence mechanism from foreign invaders...bacteria, parasites or other. Not the shedding of the lining of the intestines, although if shedding the lining of the intestines were to happen from something causative (as noted in first sentence), then mucous would be involved 

I agree, back off the treats especially jerky (symptom of lethargy goes hand in hand with jerky treat recalls-too risky).

Don't tell your vet about RAW as that will be their first focus and something else could be missed.

Any vomiting?


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

No that's what we can't pinpoint. No vomiting, normal appetite, drinking water, will take treats without a problem. Only thing is the slight lethargy, and mucus in her stool. Although my wife did take her to the park today and she said she was playing as normal. 
Reason I've been doing up the jerky and liver treats is so she can get some more meat since I don't have any readily available And I'm not sure how I can get my hands on it.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I think you need to do much more research on the raw diet so you understand it. Balance is important and Jerky and liver is not what you should be supplementing with. Too much organ meats can cause loose stools and throw off any balance in the mix IF it really is balanced to start with.
Cheaper is not always better. If this supplier is that much cheaper than the rest, there may be a good reason why. 

Your playing with a diet you don't seem to understand at a crucial time for a puppy and development. It is vital you research, understand and implement a balanced raw diet from good sources or your puppies development will be affected. There is a full RAW section on this forum you need to read.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Mucous is the bodies defence mechanism from foreign invaders...bacteria, parasites or other. Not the shedding of the lining of the intestines
> 
> Any vomiting?


Here ya go, GB. Intestinal lining.

What Is the Intestinal Mucosa? (with pictures)


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

Saphire said:


> I think you need to do much more research on the raw diet so you understand it. Balance is important and Jerky and liver is not what you should be supplementing with. Too much organ meats can cause loose stools and throw off any balance in the mix IF it really is balanced to start with.
> Cheaper is not always better. If this supplier is that much cheaper than the rest, there may be a good reason why.
> 
> Your playing with a diet you don't seem to understand at a crucial time for a puppy and development. It is vital you research, understand and implement a balanced raw diet from good sources or your puppies development will be affected. There is a full RAW section on this forum you need to read.


I'm not too proud to admit that I don't thoroughly understand the raw diet to the same extent that some people here do but from what I read the 80-10-10 ratio is a good one for dogs. The reason why I only give the freeze dried treats is so that the treats she is getting is not processed and mixed with othere garbage. Maybe I need to feed her more? Maybe try a different protein? 
I'm here for an education cause I want to do the best I can for my girl.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I think you have a good handle on things. I would suggest a SIBO test and giardia (both stool and antigen test). 

Other than food, any other thoughts on what she could have been exposed to? Where do you live (general...lol), does she get HW, flea protection? Did she have a recent vaccination? Garden plants/mulch? Could she be having growing pains?


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

I mean I do have a membership to restaurant depot and the do sell frozen meats for somewhat cheap I just don't know how to make my own food for her and I'd prefer to grind it up to make food.
For instance right now the they have chicken leg quarters for .39$ a pound rigjt now and I'm sure more just not in their circular


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

I would not purchase the Colorado Naturals. They are made by a company called Kasel who had the big recall a few years ago (Colorado Naturals was part of the recall). Kasel gets its pig ears from China so THAT alone makes me doubt the company and what it produces. Also workers have complained of the filth in the Kasel plants. 

You can inexpensively make your own "jerky" by thinly slicing chicken breasts or a beef roast, put on a non stick cookie sheet, and dry them in a 200* oven for several hours turning once or twice. Or, here is a reputable company to purchase chicken jerky from. American Made Chicken Jerky For Dogs - TriPom Chews

Hope your girl feels better soon!

Moms


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## Kaia9514 (Mar 7, 2015)

Hey I took her to a vet to see what was up and he said it's most likely growing pains. He grabbed her long bones and she basically jumped off the table aND cried like I've never heard.


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