# Verdict on Spay/Neuter Age...



## Tihannah

Finally got to talk with my vet today on the Spay/Neuter issue. I've been on the fence about this from recent reports stating that early spaying/neutering can affect the growth of my dog, and personal information shared with me from other GSD owners. My vet was very knowledgeable on this discussion and gave me his "medical" point of view and information.

This is what he told me. Neutering at an early age has adverse affects on males as it alters their development due to the lack of testosterone. Testosterone contributes greatly to the growth of males and muscle development, which in turn usually results in the less muscled, lanky males. However, in females, this does not have the same affect. He explained that a females development is only altered during heat cycles, and that spaying early has no effect on their growth whatsoever. He explained about their growth being contributed to their pituitary gland (sorry, I don't have a great short term memory for conversation so I don't have specifics of what all he said). But that spaying before the first heat will also greatly reduce the risk of mammary cancer, which I'd already read. 

So his recommendation: for males, it is best to wait until full development, but necessary to implement training to offset some of the bad behaviors that develop with intact males. With females, it is safe to spay early and she will continue to develop normally. I liked his explanation and now believe I will go ahead and have Kaiya spayed before her first cycle. The question I forgot to ask though is, at what age do the females usually go into their first heat?


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## Quiksilver

Thanks for sharing!


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## mjbgsd

Look at the mother, grand mother, etc, they are a good source to know approx. when your dog will have her heat. Though it's not exact but it's still good to know. Some females can start as early as 6 months. 

Isa had her first heat the same time her mother and grand mother had.


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## georgiapeach717

Thank you for this info! I used to think the earlier the better and had no idea about all this, then I was going to wait til 6 months, now I plan on keeping Clover intact til he is 1- 1/2 (around the time we will be looking into GSD #2)


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## MaggieRoseLee

Tihannah said:


> This is what he told me. Neutering at an early age has adverse affects on males as it alters their development due to the lack of testosterone. Testosterone contributes greatly to the growth of males and muscle development, which in turn usually results in the less muscled, lanky males. However, in females, this does not have the same affect. He explained that a females development is only altered during heat cycles, and that spaying early has no effect on their growth whatsoever. He explained about their growth being contributed to their pituitary gland (sorry, I don't have a great short term memory for conversation so I don't have specifics of what all he said). But that spaying before the first heat will also greatly reduce the risk of mammary cancer, which I'd already read.
> 
> So his recommendation: for males, it is best to wait until full development, but necessary to implement training to offset some of the bad behaviors that develop with intact males. With females, it is safe to spay early and she will continue to develop normally. I liked his explanation and now believe I will go ahead and have Kaiya spayed before her first cycle. The question I forgot to ask though is, at what age do the females usually go into their first heat?


While I agree on his recommendation for males, I've also heard that hormones effect our females too. So if they aren't full grown when you have them spayed, you are changing how 'normal' growth would have occured. I've even heard it may be a reason for how common spay incontinence is in many bitches, and this almost always starts up within a month or so of the spay (so coincidence? think not). 

As long as I KNOW my bitches won't get pregnant cause I've got no intact males in the house and can control what dogs they do meet, I decided long ago to wait after the first heat cycle for sure, and the second is even better. 

Did you find the article online by Chris Zink about early spay/neuter and what her recommendations are? Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete, by Chris Zink, DVM, PHd, courtesy of Canine Sports Productions


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## Vinnie

I agree with MRL on this one. I would agree with your vet regarding males but I disagree with him/her regarding females.

Think of it this way (and yes I know dogs are not human) but what would happen to a young girl (human) if she had a hysterectomy? Would this effect her growth, development or maturing?


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## FuryanGoddess

You know.. this would be a lot easier if they came up w/ some kind of birth control for dogs... other than altering. Some kind of birth control pill or shot for the bitches?


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## georgiapeach717

i thought about birth control on the male's side...but that just seemed wrmed and unneccessary, LMAO!!! Puppy trojens! hahahahaha!!!!


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## Tihannah

My only negative with waiting to spay is dealing with the heat cycles and bleeding really. Both my other girls are still intact and I've never had any problems keeping them "safe" during cycles. But they're both tiny, so the bleeding is barely noticeable. Not sure this is going to be the case with Kaiya. Whats the easiest way to deal with this? And just a quick vent on the new forum~ I only just received the first response and last response of the total seven posted in this thread. Really miss the old forum...


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## georgiapeach717

they make puppy diapers i know for incontinent seniors...that may help?


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## Samba

As long as your husband doesn't let the poor girl out to potty with the silly pants still on!!


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## TRex

If a human girl had a hysterectomy the only thing it would change is her ability to carry a fetus! A hysterectomy is the removal of the uterus.


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## georgiapeach717

LOL samba!!


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## Zisso

I had a female GSD that was never spayed and she was 10 years old when I put had to have her put down-the only draw back was the bleeding during her heat cycles. She was a good dog all the way around, dog friendly, cat friendly, kid safe, etc- and she never had even one littler of pups.


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## GSDSunshine

A full hysterectomy involves the removal of the uterus, the fallopian tubes, the ovaries and sometimes the cervix. The organ that would impact the girl's hormones and development would be the ovaries. They are responsible for all sorts of hormonal activities. 

Vinnie was most likely referring to this. And yes it does impact the growth and development of a young girl. Of course it would effect a female dog as well. 

A much better option is a partial spay.

http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Partial_Spay.pdf


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## Samba

Partial spay looks like a good option to me. My boy is keeping his bits though.


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## Tihannah

GSDSunshine said:


> A full hysterectomy involves the removal of the uterus, the fallopian tubes, the ovaries and sometimes the cervix. The organ that would impact the girl's hormones and development would be the ovaries. They are responsible for all sorts of hormonal activities.
> 
> Vinnie was most likely referring to this. And yes it does impact the growth and development of a young girl. Of course it would effect a female dog as well.
> 
> A much better option is a partial spay.
> 
> http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Partial_Spay.pdf


This is great info! Thanks. Now my problem would be finding out if my vet would or has performed this type of procedure. It doesn't seem like it would be more difficult to perform than a regular or normal spay procedure. And if my vet has never done a partial spay, should I ask him to perform one anyways? Or perhaps I should look for other vets in my area that may be able to perform this procedure as it says its best if done before 6 months? Kaiya is 5 months already...


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## GSDSunshine

I agree, if I had the choice (a future puppy), I think she will have a partial spay. That way she keeps everything important but no longer has a heat cycle and no longer can produce puppies.


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## GSDSunshine

They say less than 6 months because you want the procedure done before their first heat. i would ask you vet if he/she has done them before and if they know anyone that can perform the surgery. If they haven't and don't know anyone, then I would be calling every vet in the area and seeing if they can do it. Also a long shot, but you could call the helpline for belfield and see if they know of vets that perform the procedure. 1-877-692-0236 (got it from the belfield website)


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## Tihannah

GSDSunshine said:


> They say less than 6 months because you want the procedure done before their first heat. i would ask you vet if he/she has done them before and if they know anyone that can perform the surgery. If they haven't and don't know anyone, then I would be calling every vet in the area and seeing if they can do it. Also a long shot, but you could call the helpline for belfield and see if they know of vets that perform the procedure. 1-877-692-0236 (got it from the belfield website)


Thanks!! I'm going to call my vet in the morning and get started. If I can avoid an actual heat cycle without affecting her growth stages, that would be such a blessing!


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## Doc

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least take the time to read this

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

It's entirely up to you but I wanted you to be aware of the "scientific research" before you make a decision. You owe it to yourself.

Feel free to copy this and take it to your vet.


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## Tihannah

Thank you for this information, but do you think this would also apply to a partial spay? This is what I was going to ask my vet about?


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## FuryanGoddess

Few places I talked to around here don't do those. it's all or nothing.


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## Tihannah

FuryanGoddess said:


> Few places I talked to around here don't do those. it's all or nothing.


Well, if that becomes the case, I will definitely wait. Have you decided what you are going to do with Zeva?


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## FuryanGoddess

Not yet. I'm worried that some stray will come and violate her LOL. I dont' relish the thought of the blood and heat. NEVER had to deal w/ that. I have no idea what to do. She's still too young now, but I just don't know. 

I know the two labs down the street are male, but they are inside dogs and I would assume that they are fixed. I have NEVER seen them leave their yard. Other than that? Who knows? I hear that males smell if for miles.


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## onyx'girl

If you keep her under your constant supervision she won't be violated! I had Onyx spayed at 6 months and regret it. Her hormones at 1 yr were all over the place(maybe the spay had nothing to do with it)and she is tall for a female. I wish she could have naturally matured with everything intact. I would have let her go thru at least 2 heat cycles.


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## FuryanGoddess

yeah, we still walk Zeva on a leash. If she hits heat at 6 mos.. I'm sure we will still be doing it then. I just worry about a dog running up and mounting her before I could stop it. It' happens fast. Just have to be very careful and keep an eye out for lurkers. 

Our other two girls were spayed after a few litters. Sadie, I think was about 3 when we got her and Lady was at least 1 1/2. They had fully developed by then I think.


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## MaggieRoseLee

I just went thru Glory's first heat cycle (at about 11 months) and it really wasn't that bad. Drippy bleeding for only about a week, NOT alot, and I just bought those levi colored velco dog panty things from the pet store that are made for our dogs (should have bought a medium not a large though!).

I just used regular liners from the drugstore like women are supposed to use, the bigger the wings the better! More cause I don't alway position the pad right and since the panties were too large would shift a bit, than cause of any volume.

Left the panty off when she was crated so she could be FREE! But she didn't really mind it at all. And there was no real mess.

I was very proud of myself cause with Bretta I forgot to remove the panty when sending her out to pee and I would NOT recommend that at ALL!!!!!:wild:


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## FuryanGoddess

hahah, see first heat at 11 mos. I think/hope I got that much time.


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## onyx'girl

Awww, Glory all grown up now...can you believe they'll be a year next week!
FYI Zeva's mom, Glory was one of the last in the litter to go into her first heat, I think Gia had hers @ around 8-9 mos.


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## Tihannah

Tihannah said:


> Thanks!! I'm going to call my vet in the morning and get started. If I can avoid an actual heat cycle without affecting her growth stages, that would be such a blessing!


 
Well, called my vet clinic this morning, and they said he doesn't and won't do a partial spay... Will make a few more calls, but it looks like I'm just going to have to endure a cycle or two...


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## Tihannah

Three clinics called including my own. Most seem absolutely clueless as to what a partial spay is and on one does them. Kinda sad that it seems that once these doctors aquire their license and businesses, that they don't keep up with latest studies and research to improve the quality of health for their clients pets.


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## FuryanGoddess

I think that they just go by everyone else and insist that if you do not plan to breed, spay or neuter. That there is no other way and it will not effect the dog's health if you do this. They just worry about the puppies and then their pups and their pups. 



Tihannah said:


> Three clinics called including my own. Most seem absolutely clueless as to what a partial spay is and on one does them. Kinda sad that it seems that once these doctors aquire their license and businesses, that they don't keep up with latest studies and research to improve the quality of health for their clients pets.


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## VegasResident

*Nevada Laws*

Nevada of course recently passed a law that decided it for us when we have to do things.

They require spaying AND neutering by 16 weeks of age.


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## Tihannah

VegasResident said:


> Nevada of course recently passed a law that decided it for us when we have to do things.
> 
> They require spaying AND neutering by 16 weeks of age.


 
Oh WOW! And how do they reinforce that? Are you then fined if you bring your dog to be spayed at say... 2 years old??


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## VegasResident

LOL. You know I have yet to figure out that one!

I know that one problem is with licensing. No spay, no license. They also require rabies at 16 weeks though we think it should be a little later than this.


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## VegasResident

PS: Our beloved Bink passed away in Nov due to cancer and though for many weeks I thought I would never be able to add another fuzzball to our family, we have filled out our contract this last week with my GSD breeder and a new fuzzball will enter our home around September!!!!


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## Belmont

VegasResident said:


> Nevada of course recently passed a law that decided it for us when we have to do things.
> 
> They require spaying AND neutering by 16 weeks of age.


I live in Las Vegas, my Vet told me the opposite. It's against the law to spay and neuter until the puppies are at least 16 weeks old.

My Vet wants me to do it as soon as possible, and is now 18 weeks old. I got two different opinions and both said that there is no health problems to worry about for neutering early.

If anyone has a Vet here in Vegas that can say the opposite, I'm willing to listen.


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## lorihd

well lexie should be going into her second heat cycle soon, she is 18 months. I really dont relish the idea of surgery for her, so for now i prefer britches


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## AngieW

This is what I found about the spay/neuter law for Nevada that was mentioned.

Las Vegas Mandates Spay/Neuter | Animal Law Coalition
Clark County Nevada Spay-Neuter Laws


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## martemchik

Completely useless law...how is anyone ever going to regulate that? Do police officers walk up to every dog they see walking down the street and then check it for the goods? With a male its easy...but what do you do for a female?

In Milwaukee county its $24 to license an intact dog, and $12 to license a spayed/neutered one. But no matter the price its not really going to lead people to do it. I'm guessing more than 50% of animals aren't even licensed. You only get a small fine for your dog not being licensed if your dog does something stupid, but if nothing ever happens between your dog and the public, it really doesn't matter.


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## sony kkc

*spaying*

since we are on the topic of spaying i would like to all the experienced owners a question. Sorry if it does not belong here but i tried searching where to put this. My apologies. My puppy is 4 1/2 months and the vet says she should be spayed when she is 6 months. Is that so? And also will spaying calm her down since she is only a puppy? what after care do i need after her surgery? pls advise.

Regards


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## Cheyanna

sony kkc said:


> since we are on the topic of spaying i would like to all the experienced owners a question. Sorry if it does not belong here but i tried searching where to put this. My apologies. My puppy is 4 1/2 months and the vet says she should be spayed when she is 6 months. Is that so? And also will spaying calm her down since she is only a puppy? what after care do i need after her surgery? pls advise.
> 
> Regards


Spaying her won't make her not a puppy. She will still be rambunctious. I choose not to spay Fiona . There is another thread on neutering boys. Most folks wait until at least a year. Want to give hormones a chance to get things grown.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## shepherdmom

Cheyanna said:


> Most folks wait until at least a year. Want to give hormones a chance to get things grown.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Nope I don't wait a year. I had Ivan neutered at 4 months. All of my dogs get Sputered ASAP. 

Meet Buddy he was neutered at 6 months. He is 11 now. Fully male features not overly tall and spoiled rotten.


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## lone Ranger

Look, here is my 2 cents worth....

I would not spay a female until She is mentally developed... I did mine at about 6-7 months, and she is squirley headed... It could just be her, but then again I have heard this from others.

I would not spay again until over 1 year old, even up to 2 year old when they are more mentally mature..

But what the heck do I know. I only have four Shepherds, getting my second bitch from a large Police Dog mother, and She will stay intact...


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## AugustGSD

The shelter did it when I adopted August at 12 weeks, but his vet said its better to wait until at least 16 weeks. However, the shelter does not need anymore animals than they already have, so I can understand their reasoning.


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## mickeyroyalty

My breeder of 30 years says spay after growth plates have closed, after 2 heats, or around 1.5-2 years. Early spay reduces breast cancer risk, which is uncommon. I am going to wait. Spay early and the dog gets too tall. Not in proportion. Of course, they have to be under your control when in heat. I am. On my 4th GSD, 3 females. My current beauty is 6 months and I will wait a year or more. There is not much blood during heat, but my last female had 2 false pregnancies. No problem except worry om my part. Then she had a beautiful litter after a well controlled breeding.


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## Drunken_Unicorn

I am glad I found this thread. I was looking for when is a good time to neuter my new pup, but it looks like it might be in mine, as well as his, best interest to hold off on it for at least a year.

I have had family and friends say that if you don't neuter a male early, they will pee on everything. Is this usually due to lack of training or improper leadership?


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## Jax08

Spraying is a training issue.

Mine is 18 months. A few months ago, he was in a pet store and sprayed. I put a correction collar on him and just waited him out. He lifted his leg and I gave him a correction that counted. 

He has never sprayed in the house. Ever. Or anyone else's house. Or any business other than that pet store and he has not there since I corrected him.


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## Ruger Monster

Thanks to threads on here, and through talking with my trainer, we decided to wait until Ruger was 12-18 months old to talk neutering. The vet was pressuring once he reached 4 mo old, wanting to have it done before he reached 50lb/6mo. They've since accepted the fact we're waiting until at least 1 year. 

The trainer also told us that the spraying is a training issue like Jax said. Ruger hasn't attempted spraying anywhere, but he also hasn't begun lifting his leg either lol.


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