# Sticky  Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder



## MaggieRoseLee

*Please be advised, the links in this thread are in the process of being updated* - 8/23/20

The more you know and read up on these, the better the questions you'll be able to ask. As well as your ability to figure out truth from evasion in the answers you may get in response. With getting a puppy being a 12 to 15 yr commitment to a dog health and temperment, best to do our research on the front end to get the best pup. Rather the back end with research and cost for HD/aggression/timidness/Mega/

Types of Breeders

Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder

You need a good puppy warranty/paperwork!

https://sequoyah-german-shepherds.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/puppycontract.pdf

(German Shepherd Health Warranty, by Wildhaus Kennels )

http://www.adlerstein.com/ADLER%20ST...20Contract.htm

Eichenluft Working German Shepherd Guarantee - German Shepherd Breeder PA - German Shepherd Breeder VA - German Shepherd Breeder MD - German Shepherd Breeder OH - German Shepherd Breeder DC - German Shepherd Breeder NY - German Shepherd Breeder NJ


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## sagelfn

:thumbup: vote for sticky


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## MaggieRoseLee

Anyone else have great sites they'd like to recommend if this does get to be a permanent sticky??


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## MaggieRoseLee

Different 'flavors' and types of GSDs...

Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs

German Shepherd Dog Photos and information for Breed Types and Characteristics


Coats and colors

http://www.4gsd.net/colours.html


Understanding and Reading a GSD Pedigree

german shepherd pedigrees

Schutzhund Summary and Working Titles


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## GuardianShep

have read all these sites over and ovr again..
but thanks for consolidating the list - helps me to find the site faster
guides newcomers to pages which offer quality infiormation


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## MaggieRoseLee

Another great site:


http://www.dogstuff.info/elements_of_temperament_what_is_temperament.html Elements of Temperament by Joy Tiz, MS, JD (a brief excerpt to follow, click the link for more)



> *1. What Is Temperament? *
> 
> "My dog has a wonderful temperament! . . . " Except she really hates strangers." "I just got the perfect stud male! His temperament is the best, it's absolutely perfect: he has no defense drive in him at all!" "Oh, I would never breed a dog that had prey drive, they're vicious!"
> 
> Yes, all of these statement were actually made by real people. All of them German Shepherd (GSD) fanciers and breeders. We talk all the time about the importance of temperament. What are well all talking about? Are any of us even talking about the same thing?
> 
> When we talk about temperament, we are referring to a collection of drives, thresholds, traits and instincts that are inherited and innate. Yes, it's true. Temperament is a function of genetics. It is inherited, not developed. A dog's core temperament never changes. Some behaviors can be modified through training, but the temperament itself never changes. For example, a high energy dervish of a dog isn't going to learn to be a laid back, low energy dog. But, the dog can be taught to control his energy, to an extent.
> 
> Most dog owners absolutely refuse to believe this. If I only had a dollar for every time someone has told me "It's all in how they're raised!" . . . No, it's not. It's all in how their DNA came together. A dog with foul temperament will always be a dog with foul temperament, no matter how wonderful the environment. A dog with sound, stable temperament will always be a sound, stable dog, even in a lousy environment.
> 
> Good early handling, training and socialization will help develop desirable traits in the dog, but those traits have to be there. Ball drive is a good example, since it forms the foundation for so many types of work. Some dogs aren't interested in chasing a ball. If the dog does enjoy ball games, a good trainer can build that up and bring it out to it's highest possible level, but the drive itself is innate. One cannot install a drive.
> 
> Real GSD people are always seeking to produce sound working dogs. An understanding of temperament is crucial to developing a breeding program that makes sense and will preserve working abilities rather than dump more pets into an already overcrowded world.


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## susee

Thanks so much for these, they are great !


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## GSD Fan

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Different 'flavors' and types of GSDs...
> 
> Illustrated Standard of the German Shepherd Dog, TYPE COMPARISON
> 
> Breed Types & Related Families


Those two links are broke. 

Here is a functioning link on the matter: German Shepherd types and bloodlines with pictures | German Shepherd types | German Shepherd dog | German Shepherds


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## Castlemaid

Thank you GSD fan! Those two links were essentially the same, so I fixed the first one and deleted the second one. 

Thanks for the extra info and new link, good stuff there! Love it that they have a sable for the American GSD example.


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## Castlemaid

Awesome! I'm so glad you put that here.


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## qbchottu

Probably some redundant, but here are more:
American Kennel Club - Responsible Breeding Steps
ASPCA | Position Statement on Criteria for Responsible Breeding
Dog Tip: How Responsible Breeders Differ from Backyard Breeders and Pet Shops
Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder
How to Find a Responsible Dog Breeder : The Humane Society of the United States
Responsible breeding
Breeder/Breeding Information
01 Ask a Dog Breeder These Questions Before You Buy - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!
Questions That Responsible Breeders Ask & Questions You Should Ask Them
Questions to ask a dog breeder | Webvet
16 Questions You Should Ask the Breeder - Page 1
Pit Bull Rescue Central
Backyard Breeder vs. Responsible Hobby Breeder
01 Puppy Mills and Backyard Breeders vs Responsible Breeders - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!
http://jennaandsnickers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ResponsibleBreedervsAPuppyRightNow.pdf

(work as of Dec 2012)


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## lhczth

Thank you, RocketDog. I deleted the non working links. 

ADMIN Lisa


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## RocketDog

Thanks both of you.


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## Dainerra

Choosing a Good Breeder - German Shepherd Rescue of Central Colorado

came across this checklist and thought it was extremely detailed. It includes "red flags" as well as "caution - ask more questions" items


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## Castlemaid

Dainerra said:


> Choosing a Good Breeder - German Shepherd Rescue of Central Colorado
> 
> came across this checklist and thought it was extremely detailed. It includes "red flags" as well as "caution - ask more questions" items


I love this list!!! To the point and so clear!


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## motoracer51

Dainerra said:


> Choosing a Good Breeder - German Shepherd Rescue of Central Colorado
> 
> came across this checklist and thought it was extremely detailed. It includes "red flags" as well as "caution - ask more questions" items


Good link, but they need to update their info in respect to breeders accepting credit cards.

Accepting credit cards facilitates the transaction, and in today's word you can buy a CC scanner for an iPhone or Android device from Starbucks of all places, pay a ~3% fee, and conduct the transaction.

We as a nation are trending away from a physical monetary society, and IMHO, the single aspect that a breeder accepts CC wouldn't make me run on that single thing alone.


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## K.Creek

@motoracer51 thank you for the response...that's another issue I am fighting: do I ever really want to breed? Same days its a yes and some days it's a no hence why I haven't rushed out and done so. As stupid as this sounds, I'm leaning towards my mother in laws male because of where he came from, his sire. His sire was my first experience with a GSD and he set the bar high. Even if I never do breed, keeping him around in a great environment with the ability to work or play or whatever would be ok by me. I say that because he is essentially the "dog nobody wanted so my mother in law kept him" ...she feeds him well and yeah he gets pets every now and then, but I think I could better his life. That's where my head is at now...I think her male would be great for a therapy dog and canine good citizen....I appreciate your input.


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## Merciel

Hopefully not paywalled: A Field Guide to Ethical Breeders - Whole Dog Journal Article

Nice article in the latest WDJ about how to find a good breeder.

edit: oh, and there's a picture of Blackthorn puppies on page 3! That's really cool.


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## Hetha

Has anyone had any experience or know anything about the website Arizona German Shepherd Breeders? We have been looking for a healthy quality GSD for a year with no luck. Currently in Tucson AZ. Any help advise would be greatly appreciated.


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## Castlemaid

Can you link the website? When I google I get a bunch of different breeder sites from Arizona.


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## Hetha

Yes, sorry about that...here it is

Arizona German Shepherd Breeders - Top German Shepherd Breeders


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## Castlemaid

This is a front for a broker selling pups from puppy producers.

Responsible breeders won't got through a middleman to sell the pups, not knowing who ends up with the puppy. Responsible breeders want to get to know their future puppy owners and get as much info about what they are looking for in a puppy so that they can make a good match of the right puppy to the right person. 

The big giveaway is that if you phone, you are not talking with the breeder, but with a puppy specialist - in other words, a sales person. No better than buying a puppy from a pet shop. 

The same or similar website will come up with other states/areas in the title. 
Looks familiar?

Top German Shepherd Breeders - California German Shepherd Breeders

Top German Shepherd Breeders - Nevada German Shepherd Breeders

Virginia German Shepherd Breeders - Top German Shepherd Breeders

So you can see that you have no idea where the puppy they have a picture of on the website is coming from. 

Oh look! They also have Labs!
Arizona Labrador Breeders - Top Labrador Retriever Breeders

And poodles!
Arizona Poodle Breeders - Top Poodle Breeders

And purse dogs!
Arizona Chihuahua Breeders - Top Chihuahua Breeders

Looks like a nation-wide extensive fancy front for nothing more than a puppy-mill. I wouldn't believe a word they say on the website about ethics, temperament and health. Responsible breeders won't ever, EVER, *EVER* sell their pups through such a system.


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## Hetha

Thank you Castlemaid


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## Santino004

I've hear that Red Rock K9 is a great breeder with awesome dogs. 

Oklahoma German Shepherd Puppies - RedRock K9


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## EileensZoe

*Sorry, long post.*

Sometimes, one can be fooled all the way up to the point of driving hours out to pick up their puppy.
Personal experience here.

1) Breeder found on AKC site and has the AKC Breeder of Merit label

2) Breeder has listed on AKC site a litter that was born, price for puppy, as well as checking off that there is health guarantees, dogs are tatooed, and or microchipped. Breeder belongs to several clubs and is very active in them. (I had checked that out, and it was true)

3) Breeder shows dogs and has several champions

4) 4 generation pedigree that has only 5 dogs who are not champions.

Breeder was great sending emails with pics, talking on the phone, the love for the GS breed, etc. How much was spent with time on the puppies in this litter by this breeder and they are well socialized, etc.

Day has come. Driving 4 hours to get my puppy. I get there and breeder has me come into the home and immediately signals for me to sit me down to pay for puppy. My response was "Well, can I see her first please?" (flag goes up a tad)

Then I was brought out to the kennels that looked pretty clean/kept up. Mother was on premises but I wasn't allowed to walk up to the pen to see her as she wasn't "feeling well"
Litter of 6 but only 2 were in dog run. No one had picked theirs up yet so I was a bit confused on where the other pups were. Then I started looking around and the area didn't look like what had been in the pics I had seen of the puppies. Oh well, I shrugged it off figuring the other pups were probably spoken for and no need to have them all in the same run.
Fell in love with the puppy. (of course) 
Back in the house now. Had me pay the 1500.00. and once money was all counted and put away, I was told I had to choose from names the breeder had picked out to put on the AKC registration form. 
This wasn't just the kennel name, I had to pick what this breeder wanted for the entire registered name. I had never heard of this before. I started feeling a bit uncomfortable as I hated everything that was written down on the "pick list".. I mean, really dumb names!
Then I was told NOT to spay my female because she came from nice lines and SHOULD be bred at least once.
Mind you, she doesn't know me from Adam..
She then showed me a folder with the guarantees, as well as crate training stuff, etc. and basically said "keep in touch, good bye!" She was expecting another person to pull up to get their puppy and there wasn't much parking room.
Just went through the folder this morning. There was NO guarantees for hips, elbows, naddah, though on AKC site it was stated how this breeder did. I called the breeder to ask if there had been an error where the guarantee papers had missed the folder. The response about hip guarantee? "Yeah, I don't do that" When I asked why it stated this on the AKC site that there was guarantees, as well as what had been said to me, the reply was "I said HEALTH guarantee. Make sure she is checked within 48 hours and if she is sick I will take her back, but after 2 days if she gets sick, it is all on you. Dysplasia can be caused by all different factors that are not genetic." When I started to ask more questions I heard "I have people here now and I have to go" click.
I looked at the emails I had been sent from this breeder and realized in the lower body that the pics were sent to this breeder by someone who was raising the litter. The litter was never at this breeder's kennel. That is why there was only 2 pups there. That is why the landscaping that I saw in the pics were WAY different from where this breeder lived. Also, the puppies were NOT microchipped, or tattoed as stated. My guess is, this breeder co-owned or had some deal made with a family to get 1 male and 1 female from the litter. Hence the no guarantees, microchips, etc.
So...I messed up. I will get her microchipped, and be extra careful to make sure I don't do anything that may harm the hip/elbow development. 
Everything had seemed right and I feel a bit foolish now. Oh well.


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## lalachka

Yeah, after some stories I heard and read I wouldn't know who to trust. Thankfully I'm not looking yet. 

Like someone said, unless you're an insider there's no way to know who's good and who's bad. 


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## Lobobear44

Castlemaid said:


> This is a front for a broker selling pups from puppy producers.
> 
> Responsible breeders won't got through a middleman to sell the pups, not knowing who ends up with the puppy. Responsible breeders want to get to know their future puppy owners and get as much info about what they are looking for in a puppy so that they can make a good match of the right puppy to the right person.
> 
> The big giveaway is that if you phone, you are not talking with the breeder, but with a puppy specialist - in other words, a sales person. No better than buying a puppy from a pet shop.
> 
> The same or similar website will come up with other states/areas in the title.
> Looks familiar?
> 
> Top German Shepherd Breeders - California German Shepherd Breeders
> 
> Top German Shepherd Breeders - Nevada German Shepherd Breeders
> 
> Virginia German Shepherd Breeders - Top German Shepherd Breeders
> 
> So you can see that you have no idea where the puppy they have a picture of on the website is coming from.
> 
> Oh look! They also have Labs!
> Arizona Labrador Breeders - Top Labrador Retriever Breeders
> 
> And poodles!
> Arizona Poodle Breeders - Top Poodle Breeders
> 
> And purse dogs!
> Arizona Chihuahua Breeders - Top Chihuahua Breeders
> 
> Looks like a nation-wide extensive fancy front for nothing more than a puppy-mill. I wouldn't believe a word they say on the website about ethics, temperament and health. Responsible breeders won't ever, EVER, *EVER* sell their pups through such a system.


This is a great list!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR

Dainerra said:


> Choosing a Good Breeder - German Shepherd Rescue of Central Colorado
> 
> came across this checklist and thought it was extremely detailed. It includes "red flags" as well as "caution - ask more questions" items


Lol. I actually was a volunteer/ foster for connie and her rescue when i lived in colorado. Glad to see her on this list.


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## SpotsReview

*Breeder Reviews*

I have started a breeder review site called Spots Review where buyers and breeders can rate, list, and review breeders and their experiences. Breeders can also list their kennels and it's all free. Let's end byb and puppy mills!


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## maxtmill

Any recommendations for breeders of German showline dogs for future reference? Prefer Texas, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Indiana, Pennslvania, etc., if possible.


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## Bobbi King

Please report that to AKC!!! This should NOT happen to buyers! I am so sorry you were treated that way, and YES you should have not walked away, but RUN.


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## sanjo

Thank you for this list


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## zetti

Waiting lists. Having to wait a few months for a puppy is a good thing. Are the breeder's litters spoken for before they hit the ground? If not, why not? Why isn't there a demand for the pups? Why would a breeder bring a litter into the world without knowing that there are eager buyers?

I've been in GSDs a long time. I'm brutal when it comes to my opinions on breeders. Sorry, I just love and care about GSDs. When I buy a pup, I expect to have to place a deposit and wait awhile for a puppy to become available. Unless by some incredible stroke of luck another buyer backs out. It happens.

Of course, this would be on top of the basics: titled parents, A stamp hips or OFA hips & elbows, DM tests.


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## SitkatheGSD

*Debunking common breeder myths*

Does anyone have a link to the article that debunks common myths around choosing a breeder?For example, why some breeders don't want you in their home, why some breeders do use kijiji/craigslist? How to tell a backyard breeder from a responsible breeder without using blanket statements like all breeders must let you into their home.

I know it has been posted on here a few times, but I can't seem to find the link.


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## Beystar

What To Look For In A German Shepherd Breeder has always been a good resource for me


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