# Swollen nose



## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

The spot right above Baxter's nose swelled up overnight. I've given him Benadryl (per recommendations of his breeder and the animal hospital), and I'm going to get him into the vet as soon as I can. I haven't noticed spiders in my room where he sleeps, and he has no new treats or toys. It was completely normal at about 10pm last night, I just noticed it this morning after we got back inside. Any ideas? I am taking him into the vet, so I guess this is more to try to reduce my own panic and anxiety.  Here is a picture comparing last night to this morning:










Top is last night, bottom is this morning. Not the exact same angle, but you get the basic view of it.

Poor guy...


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Most likely it's a bite of some kind. Or he bumped it? Hope the benadryl helps.


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

I didn't see/hear him bump it on anything, and I didn't notice any bite... Not to say neither one of those is the culprit, though. The benadryl didn't seem to be doing much of anything when I left. He's staying with my Mom until I can take him over to the vet so that he can be monitored in case it gets worse.

I have an appointment for him at 11, so fingers crossed it's nothing major and goes away quickly!

He's acting like his usual goofball self, so that made me feel a bit better...But still. I hate when my boy isn't 100%.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

It looks like a wasp bite. Have you noticed any wasps or bees? Is it too cold there?


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

Too cold (only 8 degrees this morning) - and if there was a wasp or bee in my bedroom, I'd be staying at a hotel. I do NOT do wasps/bees. 

If it's a bite, spider is the most likely culprit...in which case, Sam may be staying at a hotel when he gets home. I'll do another thorough vacuuming when I get back home, even though it was just done. I haven't noticed any, but...then again...it's easy to not notice spiders. I don't have any bites, but I don't sleep on the floor...


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

He had no problem with me taking a look at it, checking out his teeth and gums to make sure there wasn't something there. His gums had been a teensy bit red last night, but he had just been chewing on some of his toys. They looked completely fine this morning, no tenderness, etc.

All in all, he's acting like nothing is wrong - wanted to play tug this morning, tried to chase the cats, barked at the "bad guys" outside, ate his breakfast with his usual enthusiasm... Just a wonky nose.


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

Well, the swollen nose turned out to be nothing. He thinks, as you all do, that it's likely just a bite. But during the exam, he noticed that Baxter's heartbeat was irregular. 

So now I need to set up an appointment with a dog cardiologist to get an EKG done. I'm fully aware that there are many, many harmless heart conditions. I myself have one. But that doesn't help to alleviate the anxiety. The vet didn't want to give me much information or speculate until an EKG has been done, which I understand...but is also frustrating. I just want to know that my boy is okay.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

*Benadryl also may cause some other common side effects* of tingling or numbness, *irregular heartbeat*, and low blood pressure.
As with any medication taken orally a person may experience side effects that are considered to be allergic reactions such as having an unexplained rash, swelling of the tongue, mouth, throat or lips.*Common allergic reactions may also include itching and irregular heartbeat.*
After taking Benadryl at night, a patient may experience a general tiredness the next morning, and possibly the next day, until the drug is excreted from the body.

Common side effects of Benadryl - by Kate Johns - Helium

Don't give him benedryl...then go to another vet as this one should have known this....

Hopefully this is the only reason for the heart concern


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

GatorBytes said:


> Don't give him benedryl...then go to another vet as this one should have known this....


What do you mean? "don't give him benedryl and go to another vet"? or "Don't give him benedryl" period??

If a dog's nose is swollen to that extent anthistimines are necessary, to control the swelling and allergic reaction. As with any medication, benefits outweigh risks or the medicine isn't given. In this case, with swelling of the nose/face, it's better to accept risks for benefits (decreased swelling). 

On the "list" of common side effects for benadryl, heart rate is not even mentioned, so why do you think this vet is so bad they need to change vets??

Giving a Dog Benadryl to Stop Itching - VetInfo

http://benadrylfordogs.net/what-are-the-side-effects-of-benadryl/


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hopefully that is the only reason. The cost of consultation and ECG honestly isn't much more than an office visit, and I'd rather get him a clean bill of health and avoid benadryl in the future if that was indeed the culprit.

I waited until I talked to the e-vet and a few others before giving him benadryl, and only gave him half of the recommended dosage since he has never had it before. I just didn't know what else to do since his nose was getting so swollen, but the e-vet told me that he should be fine to wait until our normal vet was open to take him in as he was able to breath without any difficulty. Thankfully, that seems to be going away, though.

Hopefully it's nothing, and just a simple reaction to the benadryl....but now that it's been brought up, I'll worry until I'm certain that he's in good health. At least ECGs are noninvasive.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It is never a bad idea to get something like that checked out  Hopefully it is nothing.

But here's another thought - you're not sure what bit/stung him, so I wonder if the heart-rate thing is a side effect of the bite/sting rather than "just because", or a side effect of the medication?


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

That's also true. I didn't see any specific bite on his nose, but who knows. It could be a reaction to that, it could be a reaction to the benadryl... I'd say it could be a reaction to his stress since we didn't see his regular vet, and he's not as fond of this one...but I didn't think stress caused anything more than an increased heart rate.

Having been through multiple ECGs, echocardiograms, holter monitors, and stress tests myself...I suppose Baxter was just jealous and wanted to see what it was all about? 

I just have to keep reminding myself that there are TONS of harmless arrhythmias, and plenty of reasons that could have caused one to occur during the examination. I'll know more on Thursday, and I can decide then if I need to have a meltdown.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> What do you mean? "don't give him benedryl and go to another vet"? or "Don't give him benedryl" period??
> 
> If a dog's nose is swollen to that extent anthistimines are necessary, to control the swelling and allergic reaction. As with any medication, benefits outweigh risks or the medicine isn't given. In this case, with swelling of the nose/face, it's better to accept risks for benefits (decreased swelling).


 
Well if there is a pre-existing heart condition, correct "DON'T give benedryl"

as for weighing the risks and benefits - heart condition and OTC drugs....hmmm

How about a ice pack for swelling or a hot pack for abcess....dohtedo

The nose could be swollen do to a tiny sliver too?

My suggestion was to go to another vet b/c from what I gathered on another thread...the echo test is $400...a bit about an ave. vet visit

Antihistamine, decongestant, and anticholinergic combination consumer information from Drugs.com


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

We aren't doing an echocardiogram/ultrasound at this point. Just a consultation and EKG - sorry, I typed ECG before, I suppose. The echocardiogram is about $400, the EKG is only $60, so it seems like a good idea to go ahead and get it done to rule out anything serious.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

evybear15 said:


> We aren't doing an echocardiogram/ultrasound at this point. Just a consultation and EKG - sorry, I typed ECG before, I suppose. The echocardiogram is about $400, the EKG is only $60, so it seems like a good idea to go ahead and get it done to rule out anything serious.


I am not even sure if you typed it wrong, I may have eco on the brain from other thread...LOL...lot of heart issues creeping up lately - scarey.

And with your exp. I can see why you would want a consult...AND, antihistamines are a no-no...whether this irregular beat is as a side-effect of or symptom of deeper illness it brought forward.

Things happen for a reason.

Hope Baxter checks out just fine though


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

Eh, who knows. I mix up ECG and EKG all the time, forget if they're the same thing or if ECG is echocardiogram (because that would make sense)... 

But I hope everything turns out okay. He's not even 2 1/2 yet... I'll come up with an update after we meet with the cardiologist on Thursday. Hopefully they send me home saying that it's no big deal, but I'll have to wait and see!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Good luck!


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

evybear15 said:


> Too cold (only 8 degrees this morning) - and if there was a wasp or bee in my bedroom, I'd be staying at a hotel. I do NOT do wasps/bees.
> 
> If it's a bite, spider is the most likely culprit...in which case, Sam may be staying at a hotel when he gets home. I'll do another thorough vacuuming when I get back home, even though it was just done. I haven't noticed any, but...then again...it's easy to not notice spiders. I don't have any bites, but I don't sleep on the floor...


I wouldn't go that extreme. It is estimated that you are ALWAYS within 8 feet of a spider. In your vents, ducts, furniture, etc....

We commonly see random allergic reactions, usually assume it's a bug bite, injection of benadryl and steroid usually makes swelling go away.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

EKG and ECG are the same thing. 

As far as benadryl.... WE ALWAYS recommend it to patients with allergy issues. And we ALWAYS give it as an injection with a steroid WHENEVER a patient comes in with a swollen face or hives. Diphenhydramine and DexSP. Yes, benefits FAR outweigh the risks. If a reaction is occurring to the point that there is facial swelling or hives over the body, then it could easily cause internal swelling and block airways. THAT is why we give. To make sure the patient can breathe. That protocol has been exactly the same with 3 different clinics I have worked at. The only thing we would not give is the steroid if they've been given some NSAIDs recently. 

I'm not saying irregular heartbeat can't be caused by it. BUT I have given a lot of benadryl, both orally and as an injectable, and I have NEVER EVER EVER seen cardiac side effects. That being said, always talk to your VET about any medications given now or in the future. Not someone on the internet telling you to never give a medication again that is given every single day, by vets, with no problems. 

I am confused though, to the OP, as to what "irregular heartbeat" means? Was it bradycardic? Tachycardic? Irregular pulses? Murmur? Does the vet not have an EKG in clinic that they could throw on real fast? ANY vet should be able to see arrythmias. How do they monitor surgery patients without an in-house EKG monitor? Not saying your vet is wrong in referring you to a cardiologist. That would be my next step.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Antihistamine, decongestant, and anticholinergic combination consumer information from Drugs.com


*That is for a combination of 3 different drugs!* No where in there is diphenhydramine listed! THIS is why much internet information needs to be taken lightly, especially when it is going against information that almost every single veterinarian on the planet will tell you.

Upon looking through Plumb's, the veterinary drug handbook, irregular cardiac rhythm is not noted. It IS noted to use with caution in patients with cardiac disease, do keep that in mind. As of yet, this is not cardiac disease, and not even clearly defined. 

http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vth/Documents/pharmacy-diphenhydramine.pdf

Diphenhydramine HCl


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

The swelling has gone down completely, thankfully. He seems tired...but he also spent the day at my parents' so someone could monitor him while I was at work, and any change in his routine seems to wear him out.

As far as what type of arrhythmia, they wouldn't say what they were hearing. I found it odd, but it wasn't our regular vet, so I wasn't sure what to expect with him. I suppose I also didn't find it too odd since it was the basic procedure I got when they found my own heart issue - discovered a problem, sent me straight to a specialist.

Hopefully I'll know more on Thursday when we meet with the cardiologist. I've heard good things about this clinic, so here's hoping they live up to their reputation.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> *That is for a combination of 3 different drugs!* No where in there is diphenhydramine listed! THIS is why much internet information needs to be taken lightly, especially when it is going against information that almost every single veterinarian on the planet will tell you.
> 
> Upon looking through Plumb's, the veterinary drug handbook, irregular cardiac rhythm is not noted.* It IS noted to use with caution in patients with cardiac disease,* do keep that in mind. As of yet, this is not cardiac disease, and not even clearly defined.
> 
> ...


 
LOL...I pasted the wrong link...

what does "use caution" constitute?...and since cardiac disease is NOT clearly defined, then wouldn't "caution" mean DON'T use? 

and although benedryl is common, shouldn't it NOT be encouraged over the internet?


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> LOL...I pasted the wrong link...
> 
> what does "use caution" constitute?...and since cardiac disease is NOT clearly defined, then wouldn't "caution" mean DON'T use?
> 
> and although benedryl is common, shouldn't it NOT be encouraged over the internet?


No I agree on the cardiac part, which is why I posted that it does say do not give to a dog with cardiac disease. I put that this problem right now might NOT be cardiac disease, could be a result of whatever was causing the inflammation on the nose. But I did put that out there, since there is a cardiologist appointment for this week.

As well, NOTHING as far as medication should be dosed or recommended over the internet. The OP spoke with their vet, and you told them they should find a new vet since their vet should of known to NEVER give benadryl...


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

evybear15 said:


> The swelling has gone down completely, thankfully. He seems tired...but he also spent the day at my parents' so someone could monitor him while I was at work, and any change in his routine seems to wear him out.
> 
> As far as what type of arrhythmia, they wouldn't say what they were hearing. I found it odd, but it wasn't our regular vet, so I wasn't sure what to expect with him. I suppose I also didn't find it too odd since it was the basic procedure I got when they found my own heart issue - discovered a problem, sent me straight to a specialist.
> 
> Hopefully I'll know more on Thursday when we meet with the cardiologist. I've heard good things about this clinic, so here's hoping they live up to their reputation.


Good! Please keep us posted with an update, it will be interesting to hear what they find, if anything (here's to hoping it's nothing!)


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

GatorBytes said:


> and although benedryl is common, shouldn't it NOT be encouraged over the internet?





> I've given him Benadryl (per recommendations of his breeder and the animal hospital),


When the OP came on here, Benadryl had been given. In this case, yes it should have been used and was used correctly.

I've seen you advise people leaving their vets numerous times over the slightest issues and this isn't a slight one - a dog that can't breathe correctly _will die_, cardiac disease or not.

So why tell them to leave their vet as "this one should have known"? It seems only after the OP took their dog in did they find a possible arrhythmia, although I could have the sequence of events wrong, the OP has stated the vet told her to use Benadryl, not people on the internet. 

Even in the face of an arrhythmia, if the patient cannot breathe, it may well _perish._ 
Since it wasn't known if the swelling would continue to spread (between pic 1 and pic 2 it had increased), Benadryl was absolutely the correct course of action, as per the OPs veterinarian, and to tell them to leave this vet isn't good advice. Their vet has everything under control and the patient is still alive. In fact, vets actually like their patients alive, believe it or not.



Anubis_Star said:


> Good! Please keep us posted with an update, it will be interesting to hear what they find, if anything (here's to hoping it's nothing!)


I'm hoping and praying it's just a scare too, please let us know.


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

He never seemed to be having trouble breathing, but I wanted to administer SOMETHING before that started to happen as I didn't know what caused the swelling, if it was going to get worse, etc. But I absolutely checked with both the breeder and the e-vet before administering benadryl - I'm very, very cautious with giving anything to Baxter without doing at least SOME research first. I certainly don't claim to know everything, but I try to be somewhat informed.

I'm trying very, very hard not to over-analyze every past behavior, health issue, current behavior, etc., and think of the ways that they could be indicators of a problem that I missed. It's easy to do, but not helpful. Honestly? I hated leaving him this morning, and I just keep reminding myself that it COULD be nothing.

The breeder has never had any heart conditions crop up in any of their dogs, so Baxter would be the first if there is a problem.

Either way, I'll absolutely update you all on the outcome of tomorrow's appointment!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

You did the right thing, Evy and so did the e-vet and your own vet. Don't second guess it :thumbup:
Quite honestly, we use benadryl frequently in our own house, for family and the dogs, with no issues at all


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

As I said before, anytime we see facial swelling related to a possible allergic reaction we give benadryl unless otherwise indicated


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

This, in bold...is why I refered to the benedryl as possible cause for the irregular heart beat....despite what the books tell you about drug symtoms, they are still drugs, and can affect one diff. from another...I know a person who cannot take anti-histamine as the opposite of feeling drowsy happens, they get trembley and their heart races....that's why I ref'd it and put it forth....SO Evybear can BREATHE...

Regardless and not knowing what the vet discussed, or suggested in her small follow-up post...the Vet could have said, this might be a simple reaction to the benedryl, come back for a follow-up in a day or two and we'll have a listen when it's out of his system....THEN, he can put the fear heart trouble in her IF it so exists....

initially it seemed based on another thread that this was going to be an expensive test (400.00), so I gasped at that - clearly $60.00 is not and is a f/u exam....

My vets charge 1/2 price for a f/u.

Some vets (NOT ALL), take advantage of the "first do no harm" by padding the bottom line with non-invasive testing - It can't hurt the symptom is there, lets make a $, we find nothing, we have a happy client - this is clearly not an emergency or she would have been sent ASAP that day to cardiologist....



evybear15 said:


> *I'm trying very, very hard not to over-analyze every past behavior, health issue, current behavior, etc., and think of the ways that they could be indicators of a problem that I missed*. It's easy to do, but not helpful. Honestly? I hated leaving him this morning, and I just keep reminding myself that it COULD be nothing.


 
Below - I have seen many people suggest leaving their vet and getting another opinion...When I do, it is to another vet that is going to focus on wellness - not drug therapy where it can be avoided...no where here is there a breathing issue, and no where here should this issue be made about what you think about me.


msvette2u said:


> When the OP came on here, Benadryl had been given. In this case, yes it should have been used and was used correctly.
> 
> *I've seen you advise people leaving their vets numerous times over the slightest issues and this isn't a slight one - a dog that can't breathe correctly will die, cardiac disease or not.*
> 
> ...





msvette2u said:


> You did the right thing, Evy and so did the e-vet and your own vet. Don't second guess it :thumbup:
> Quite honestly, we use benadryl frequently in our own house, for family and the dogs, with no issues at all


msvete ~ I NEVER said the OP did anything wrong!!!!!!! So kindly stop worming and twisting words to make your proclaimations and stop POLICING other peoples threads and wagging your finger at those who post their opinions, whether said opinion is wrong in YOUR mind....it is your contorsion of others words that lend others to believe what YOU implied and is now out of context....again and again. 



Anubis_Star said:


> As I said before, *anytime we see facial swelling* related to a possible allergic reaction we give benadryl *unless otherwise indicated*


Anubus - Although, benedryl is the top of the list and considered most safe...This person was advised over the phone...so how do you determine "otherwise indicated"...Why not just go to the vet?

Benedryl is grossly overscripted on this forum for every little skin issue for any dog, puppy, senior b/c teh belief is it is "perfectly" safe...clearly although mostly....not "perfectly" and not in everyone or dog

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My comment about seeing another vet, is that this one (maybe), by using fear based marketing has caused the poor dog owner 3 days of anxiety...YES!!!!...It happens...If he had just said - "it might be the benedryl" 

With the change in the vax. protocol (30% of a clinic's revenue - or something like that) - Vet's have to come up with new ways to sell services to maintain and/or improve their bottom line....


Evybear - Hope you didn't think I was implying you did anything wrong...not even giving the benedryl...It was solely to put your mind at ease

Good luck today


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

No worries, GatorBytes! I wasn't concerned that I did anything wrong - I'm pretty overprotective of this pup, so I wouldn't give him something if I wasn't fairly confident that it would be safe, or that the benefits outweighed the risks.  That said, I enjoy hearing perspectives from all side. In my opinion, the more information given, the more aware I am in my own decision making for Baxter's care. I may lean more toward the holistic for some issues, more toward conventional in others - whatever Baxter responds best to! I have contemplated looking for a different or secondary vet for him. While I love our regular vet, and Baxter ADORES him and all of the staff (to the point that he gets very very happy and excited when he sees where we're going), I do sometimes feel that the examinations aren't as thorough as I would like. I have not yet found out that I am completely confident in, so I haven't made that step just yet.

To be fair to the vet we did see, he probably didn't offer me any reassurances as to what could have caused it because my initial panic-reaction is to get very calm and focused. He could have felt that I didn't really need that reassurance. Even my own family misreads my reactions to stress all the time. Unfortunately, when I truly am NOT stressed, then they assume that I am. 

Even if they had given me the option of coming back in for a follow-up appointment, OR going to see a cardiologist... I probably would have opted for the cardiologist anyway. I feel more at ease knowing that a specialist will be looking him over, as I would assume they would be able to detect a more subtle issue.

In any case, I should focus on work so I can keep busy and make the day go by faster! I'll stop back in later to let you all know the verdict


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

I wil stake my career on the fact that I 110% fully believe it was NOT the benadryl ! Every VETERINARY referance ive looked at , even my own veterinarian I talked to at work last night , no where has it ever been indicated that benadryl will cause an arrythmia. there is a difference between people becoming hyper reactive on drugs like bendaryl (thats a known side effect) and a drug actually causing cardiac irregularities. Im sorry , I believe a vet with over 20 years experience over one website thats not even a medical board. so there is no reason the vet should of said it was the benadryl because it wasnt.

You stated it could be an allergic reaction that caused it. True , but I would think its an allergic reaction to the swollen spot on the muzzle. And no we dont wait until dyspnea from swollen air ways occurs. We treat as soon as we see facial swelling to PREVENT dyspnea. As far as advising for medications over thr phone ,usually we would just say to come in as it can turn serious but in certain circumstances theres no need to believe a young healthy dog would have cardiac disease. Its an otc drug given frequently and in all honesty they probably recommended an extremely low dose. 25mg im guessing ? Maybe  even just 5mg

Excuse the spelling im on my moms tablet and I HATE it


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

Best wishes that your boy's problem will be easily fixed. I will be keeping him in my prayers.


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

The e-vet said that, given his size, it would be safe to give him up to 50mg of Benadryl. As he had never had it before, I wanted to give a smaller dosage first (25mg), and see how he did, but was prepared to give him more if the swelling went up.

I would think that if it were to cause a hyperactive situation, the heart rate would be elevated, but not necessarily irregular. I, personally, have something called "inappropriate sinus tachycardia" - my heart rate is extremely sensitive and jumps up quite easily. Prior to finding the right meds, it wasn't uncommon for my HR to be over 200 during exercise. They actually stopped the one stress test that I have had, because they were getting anxious about it, despite the fact that the EKG was showing no issues, and I was feeling fine (just tired). It's just speedy, and is over-reactive to movement. Theoretically, I'll "grow out of it."

Baxter was acting like his typical goofball self last night and this morning, which reassured me a bit. Only a few hours of work left, and then off to fetch him and head to the opposite side of town for his appointment.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> I wil stake my career on the fact that I 110% fully believe it was NOT the benadryl ! Every VETERINARY referance ive looked at , even my own veterinarian I talked to at work last night , *no where has it ever been indicated that benadryl will cause an arrythmia*. there is a difference between people becoming hyper reactive on drugs like bendaryl (thats a known side effect) *and a drug actually causing cardiac irregularities*. Im sorry , I believe a vet with over 20 years experience over one website thats not even a medical board. so there is no reason the vet should of said it was the benadryl because it wasnt.


How about Pfizer then?

2. _Cardiovascular System_: Hypotension, headache, palpitations, tachycardia, extrasystoles
http://www.pfizer.com/files/products/uspi_benadryl.pdf


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Histamine exerts a series of actions upon the
cardiovascular system. Thus, through mediation of
the H​​​​​​​​​1 and H2 receptors, histamine increases vascular
permeability and induces hypotension, with refl ex
tachycardia. In turn, at heart muscle level, histamine
action upon the H1 receptors induces an increase in
atrioventricular node conduction, while the H2 receptors
mediate positive chronotropic and inotropic effects
[3]. The H1 antihistamines, as inverse agonists, exert
the opposite effect, with partial countering of the
aforementioned actions. *However, the main concern in*
*relation to the cardiovascular safety of the antihistamines*
*refers to their cardiac arrhythmogenic potential*. A review
is provided below of the principles and clinical particulars​
of these worrisome adverse effects


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Where is this info found? I see no reference? What is it in regards to?





GatorBytes said:


> Histamine exerts a series of actions upon the
> cardiovascular system. Thus, through mediation of
> the H​​​​​​​​​1 and H2 receptors, histamine increases vascular
> permeability and induces hypotension, with refl ex
> ...


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

H1-antihistamines: inverse agonism, anti-in... [Clin Exp Allergy. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI

Benedryl = H1 antagonist (diphenhyramine)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Where is this info found? I see no reference? What is it in regards to?


google it ~ h1 antihistamine + cardiovascular


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

The verdict is in, and Baxter is going to be just fine. They did hear a slight murmur, but it is either stress-induced, or a slight enough congenital issue that it won't affect his long term health. To determine that they would need an echocardiogram, but they didn't feel like he NEEDED one.

Although a bit anxious about being at a new location, he was the perfect gentleman and made sure to give the cardiologist and her tech lots of smooches when they would let him.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Sounds like good news I guess? slight murmur...

You may want to get proactive in suppliments - Omega 3 (fish body oil), is for the heart, Q10 foods (wouldn't suppliment if you can get through foods), magnesium...look into this

WHFoods: coenzyme Q

Magnesium Deficiency in Dogs | petMD 

also colostrum

Altered immunity may be the hidden cause of atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease. For example, a type of Chlamydia has been associated with arterial plaque formation in over 79% of patients with heart disease. A recent New England Journal of Medicine article (36) concluded that heart disease is the result of immune sensitization to cardiac antigens. Immune system mediated injury results in myocarditis with lymphocytes and macrophage being the predominant infiltrating cells. Colostrum PRP may have a role in reversing heart disease very much like it does with allergies and autoimmune diseases. Additionally, IgF-1 and GH in colostrum can lower LDL-cholesterol while increasing HDL-cholesterol concentrations. Colostrum growth factors promote the repair and regeneration of heart muscle and the regeneration of new blood vessels for collateral coronary circulation.

http://www.synertekcolostrum.com/index.php/american-journal-of-natural-medicine/


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> They did hear a slight murmur, but it is either stress-induced, or a slight enough congenital issue that it won't affect his long term health.


That is great news, I'm so happy to hear this


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

See arn't ya glad you got that second opinion? Sounds like great news to me.


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

I am absolutely relieved, and getting a second opinion from a specialist was the right move for me. It puts my mind at ease!

IF the murmur is related to congenital heart disease, as opposed to stress-induced, they said that it would likely be related to a narrowing of either the right or left ventricular outflow tract, but that it will be of no consequence to his quantity or quality of life. The arrhythmia is a simple and benign sinus arrhythmia - it is just more sensitive and increases a bit more easily. Which is what I deal with.

They said that if he shows any worrisome symptoms, or I start getting concerned, we can do a 24 hour holter monitor, or an echocardiogram. At this point, I don't feel that either of those will be necessary.

Interestingly, I found out that GSDs have their very own heart condition named after them. She initially thought that we may see remnants of that, but it wasn't the case. She told me all of this AFTER we determined Baxter was fine. I can't remember the specific name (aside from it having GSD in it), but there's only a 30% survival rate.

We celebrated Baxter's good news by doing his FAVORITE activity - playing fetch at my parents'!


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

congenital ventricular tachycardia


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

So happy for you and your handsome boy, give him a kiss for me.


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

I can certainly give him some extra kisses! He shouldn't mind - after all, he had the entire medical center in love with him by the time we left.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

evybear15 said:


> I am absolutely relieved, and getting a second opinion from a specialist was the right move for me. It puts my mind at ease!
> 
> IF the murmur is related to congenital heart disease, as opposed to stress-induced, they said that it would likely be related to a narrowing of either the right or left ventricular outflow tract, but that it will be of no consequence to his quantity or quality of life. The arrhythmia is a simple and benign sinus arrhythmia - it is just more sensitive and increases a bit more easily. Which is what I deal with.
> 
> ...


He is SO handsome!! :wub:


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## evybear15 (Mar 28, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> He is SO handsome!! :wub:


Thanks! I certainly think so - especially now that he doesn't have a big ol' swollen nose. I couldn't quite take him seriously then, after I knew he was okay of course. :wub:


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm so glad Baxter is ok! It must really put your mind at ease


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