# GS Female adopted at 2 and had agressive incident yesterday.



## Akashalives (Oct 30, 2011)

My apologies for the length, but hopefully all the detail can help shed some light on things.... Hopefully someone can help us out. About 1.5 yrs ago my fiance and I adopted a GS 2 yr old female. She has been fixed. She lived in my fiance's house which had an ample yard and on july we got married and both she and my now husband moved to San Diego to my house (which has a smaller yard), we exercise her often and we have routinely taken her out to unleashed dog parks (she doesnt socialize as much as other dogs and mainly spends the time sniffing everything) and even dog beach (she liked it ok). 

Well yesterday, my husband and son took her for a walk with a neighbor and his son that also has a GS mix that we have befriended. Well at the dog park, she fully attacked the other dog (who is a sweetheart) and grabbed him by the neck and just wouldn't let go. The two men fully punched her to let go and she wouldn't... then when my husband's hand got in the way the victim dog bit him (and an ER visit and 3 stitches later) as well as neighbor was all scraped from his knees and it seems got a nick on a nail (unsure still who did that one) we are all home recuperating, and I am at a loss as to what to do about it.... husband is seriously thinking of what we are to do and now he doesn't trust her to be with my son and I (and hopefully soon we'll have a baby so that also weighs on his mind.

There was just one other instance of this. When my husband took her to visit his parents GS (male) she became aggressive and he established dominance quickly since he was much bigger and in his territory. On this instance, it was neutral ground and a smaller, thinner GS mix.

Can one fix this with a professional trainer? any recommendations? She is house broken and does sit, beg, down tricks... plays with a ball and is leash trained so she doesn't pull. Can we feel safe and trusting of her again with training?

When we adopted her it was for life thing, she was very sad initially and took 3 days for her to pick up her ears, she has been a darling. But right now we are both saddened this happened and am waiting for husband to be less upset so we can discuss more rational options.

Thanks for any help!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Welcome to you!

I personally don't think dog aggression can be "fixed" You can manage the reactivity, but the way she is~ is genetic.
I would get with a good trainer soon, so your family can learn to manage her, and possibly the trainer will have a way to teach her to be neutral to other dogs. She looks like she needs a job to do, so keeping her mentally and physically exercised is very important.
She is really pretty, reminds me of Onyx. I hope you can keep her, because she will be a hard one to safely place in another home.
Practice NILIF until you get with a good trainer.


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

Three bits of advice

1-I wouldn't take her to an off leash dog park, in my opinion they are horrible places and your setting her up to fail. There are to many variables at these places, you never know what other peoples dogs are like and there are too many uncontrolled dogs at these places and things can escalate very quickly, especially if you are not good at reading a dogs body language to intervene and stop an action before it happens.

2-Because your dog has displayed aggression towards another dog does not necessarily mean that it will also show aggression to humans, and vice versa.

3-Seek the help of a good trainer/behaviourist, they should be able to help you curb and controll the behaviour. Make sure it is a trainer that has experience with working line dogs. See if there are any German Shepherd Clubs in your area and get ahold of them and ask if they can recommend a good trainer.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you and the dog


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi, and welcome to the forum - Your girl is gorgeous!! 

First, let me put your mind at ease: dog aggression does not automatically translate to people aggression. Some dogs just don't like other dogs, and that's okay. They can still be 100% reliable with people and small children, even if they don't like other dogs. So far, your girl seems to fall in that category. 

In your situation, just understand that your girl does not feel happy or comfortable around other dogs - she doesn't NEED the dog park, or dog friends, she has you guys! GSD's, in general, are supposed to be more aloof with strangers, and not too interested in other dogs - this comes from their heritage of being a working dog, where their full focus should be on the handler. 

Let me say it again: your dog is fine, and there is no worry about her acting out in an aggressive way for no reason towards people of children (I'm assuming she has always been fine with people and kids - sounds like in the time you had her it was only these two incidents that have occured?)

My first dog was a spaniel/retriever mix, very easy-going, non-aggressive, socially poised, confident dog. He was a therapy dog and the best dog to have in a dog park, loved everyone and every other dog, and everyone and every other dog loved him. Daily visits to the dog park and off-leash hikes with other people and dogs where our normal routine. 

My next dog after him turned out to be dog aggressive/reactive. She is also one of those dogs that other dogs hate, and normally friendly dogs will lunge and growl at her. So no doggy socializing for her! So a completely different approach, of strict obedience training, leashed walks if there are other people around, and finding areas where we can play off-leash with no other dogs around.

Good news for your girl is that she seems to have good on-leash manners, and the incident didn't happen until she was off-leash. 

So these incidents have absolutely nothing to do with how trustworthy she is with you, your son, or other people. And easy enough to manage this by keeping her from freely interacting with other dogs to prevent any further incidents. 

What is her name by the way?


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

_So these incidents have absolutely nothing to do with how trustworthy she is with you, your son, or other people

_I agree.


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## Akashalives (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks for the tips and the warm welcome. 

Yes, she has displayed no aggressive behavior toward humans... just those two instances, the funny thing is that the two dogs were alone in the dog park, but yeah we will most likely keep her on a leash from now on... and a muzzle most likely until we trust her again... or is done with the personal trainer... must look for one in SD.

Her name is Trinity... and she is about 3 yrs old. Hubby is still very upset at her, and is now napping recovering from the 3 stitches he got (from the other dog's defensive biting), talked to neighbors... we will not get the 2 dogs together again... but we're in good standing. She is so sheepish right now... but can't treat this like a minor thing... will start making phone calls tomorrow; the problem is that it seems it will fall on me to do the whole thing... Husband wants nothing to do with her now, at least for the time being. *sigh*


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Dogs will be dogs, I hope your hubby doesn't hold a grudge.
I wonder if her body language as posted in the pics with other dogs was addressed? In a couple of those shots, she is very dominant looking and carries a threatening posture to other dogs.
Did your neighbors dog need vetting after the fight? Punctures should be taken care of and antibiotics given if the dog was bitten. I hope they checked him over well.
My dogs play hard with each other, and we had a GSD that I took care of for a weekend come over. She had no idea how to play as she was an 'only dog'. I had to manage my dogs so they wouldn't bully her and she ended up playing quite well with them. Though had I let the dogs be in control, I'm sure I would have ended up with some blood shed.
Females tend to hold a grudge with other dogs, so if they don't play nice once, I don't think they are safe to be around the same dog again without careful management. 
My daughters best friend has a GSD named Trinity!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

great advice and opinions here already so i'll only say, please, please...no "most likely" when it comes to keeping her on a leash!!! i'd avoid interaction with other dogs entirely. once a dog has exhibited behavior (specific, easily avoidable behavior), like this you simply cannot be too careful. your responsibility is to protect her and other dogs as well, by managing the environment.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

btw, she is beautiful and looks like she's got quite a personality. she definitely has the alpha body postures.


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## prophecy (May 29, 2008)

Sorry you have had an incident with your shepherd and I hope everyone is ok.What I am taking away from this sounds a great deal like dog aggression and not really a major concern regaurding her interactions with humans.*Dog aggression is a TOTALLY DIFFERANT BEHAVIOUR than human agression.*
As far as training DA out,I do not feel it can be 'removed' BUT it can be managed.I would honestly suggest NOT taking her to offleash dog parks or anywhere where the dog can get to offleash dogs.NO more play dates with other dogs(at least until the issue is sorted out by a professional-wich I strongly reccommend)


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## Akashalives (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks for the additional tips. The other dog had no puncture wounds... neither did she, the owners were the ones that got hurt. The dogs are both physically OK. I sincerely hope my husband doesn't hold a grudge... and yeah definitely NO off-leash time until we take her through the training process. I will go through the training threads and get to know the forum better... Thank you all SOOO much. I feel so relieved that it is not hopeless.  Love her way too much!:blush:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Why would your husband hold a grudge against his dog? Anytime you try to break up a dog fight, (esp. If you don't have much experience) you should expect to get bit (and feel it is a bonus if you don't)!

Goos luck with the trainer/behaviorist! Make sure that you get one who is experienced in dealing with large aggressive dogs!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

My husband has a few scars from when he accidently put two unfriendly bitches together. I have a female who is not a dog park candidate and really she does not want any dog friends. She is just an awesome dog. I have no problem that she does not care for other dogs. It is not that uncommon.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

If you feel some burning need for your dog to get along with other dogs, Pat Miller had done a series of articles in Whole Dog Journal regarding this. Turgid Rejis (sp) has done a lot on reading dogs. Calming Signals is the name of one of her books. It would help you understand what is going on with the dogs.

Other wise I think the tact to take is as others have suggested - she doesn't want or need doggy friends. Nothing wrong with that.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I'm not sure when photo 2 happened but that one alone would be enough to tell me to avoid dog parks with her.

Also...not sure why your husband is pissed at her when it's you guys' fault for bringing her to a park. I hope he rethinks how dogs behave, because she was simply behaving _like a dog._ 
Humans invented dog parks out of good intentions, but to make themselves feel good, not the dogs. Humans get happy when they see dogs run around all free and happy blahblahblah. But the stress on the dog is something they seem to miss or overlook. 
I'm sure there's dogs/breeds out there who are happy-go-lucky and never have issues at a park. I doubt GSDs are one of those breeds, at least not all the time.

Stop putting human feelings on the dog and realize it's just a dog. The fact she had a tiff with another dog today has no bearing on how she's going to be with your family.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I will say too that I have one who is dog agressive and is absolutely the most bombproof dog I have EVER had around people.

This dog has been extricated from being tangled in a barbed wire fence and even hanging upside down from a fence in which her leg got caught in her younger days and never once tried to bite. I quicked her today and she yelped then licked me and let me do her other nails. Never so much as a curled lip with this dog. I have seen her mobbed by small children and tolerate their antics (that was a one time mistake that I promised her I would not let happen again but she was flawless)

My only dog related goals with this dog are

(1) to accept other dogs in my home which she does
(2) to be controlled in an environment with other dogs which she is.

She will never be a dog park kind of dog but then many GSDs simply are not. She has also never been responsible for any damage to any other dog though she has been snarky enough for me to know she is not the dog who will be running around the at a friends house with their dog during a cookout. I hope you can convince your husband she is not a danger to people -


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Akashalives:

I'm sorry to hear about your husband getting bit after the fight in the dog park. I agree with the other posters--see if you can find a good trainer to understand her behavior. I had a female GSD who was loving and sweet to me, and completely submissive, no matter what. She also got along well with my older male GSD. However, with any other dog, she could not be trusted. I think part of it was a jealousy thing, and part of it was just something in her personality which was not open to other dogs.

Like your husband, I was very angry and disappointed at her behavior as a young dog. I would look at her in a negative way and think ill of her behavior, as if she had intentionally tried to let me down.

Thank God, very experienced dog owners sat me down and set me straight about reading human intentions, and having unfair expectations, with her. If your dog is like a typical female GSD, she wants nothing more than to please him, and probably did what she did out of some kind of concern for him or regard for him. Please tell him not to hold grudges against her or to resent her. There is no reason for him to feel betrayed or turn against her. She will pick this up, but she will not understand it. The reality is that you cannot always figure out what she has against other dogs--but it is in your power to plan accordingly and avoid forcible socializations with other dogs.

And she is indeed an absolutely beautiful dog!


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## Todd (Sep 6, 2004)

Castlemaid said:


> Hi, and welcome to the forum - Your girl is gorgeous!!
> 
> First, let me put your mind at ease: dog aggression does not automatically translate to people aggression. Some dogs just don't like other dogs, and that's okay. They can still be 100% reliable with people and small children, even if they don't like other dogs. So far, your girl seems to fall in that category.


Agree with Lucia. Heidi was not necessarily dog agressive but she was dominant over every other dog that did not play bow immediately! She had very few doggie friends. However, she was 100% perfect with people. She adored children and they could do anything. She liked the vast majority of adults too.

I just had to keep Heidi under complete control with other dogs. Sometimes I wondered if she wanted to play with other dogs more, but she would much rather have been around people.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I agree with the rest of the posts. Our Kaos is a perfect gentlemen on leash with other dogs. As far as off leash if everyone immediately fell into line and respected him  he also does well....if they don't he doesn't take well to that. We just manage it. We go to parks and walk him on lead, he meets and greets all the other dogs with no issue and that's good enough if we want to do off leash play besides in our yard we take him to the tennis courts shut the door and let him play. As far as it leading to human aggression, I agree they are 2 completely different situations. I have 3 kids ages 10, 7, and 2. Kaos has grown up with all of them.....I would trust him more than most people to watch my children and keep them safe. He is extremely patient and loving....for example he was sleeping in the middle of the floor the other night, I woke up to take cough medicine, didn't see him and walked right into his back legs (which are arthritic) it startled him, he saw it was me and then licked my hand. Another thing he acts like a bad*** outside this house, but we get him home and a 10lb siamese cat pushes him around. So in all my rambling I am saying dog aggression is it's own very manageable problem and doesn't affect other areas of aggression in my experience.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Akashalives said:


> Thanks for the additional tips. The other dog had no puncture wounds... neither did she, the owners were the ones that got hurt. The dogs are both physically OK. I sincerely hope my husband doesn't hold a grudge... and yeah definitely NO off-leash time until we take her through the training process. I will go through the training threads and get to know the forum better... Thank you all SOOO much. I feel so relieved that it is not hopeless.  Love her way too much!:blush:


No trainer can make this dog safe around other dogs. Don't think that using a professional trainer will allow you to go back to off leash at the dog park. No more dog park, NEVER. It is completely unfair to the other dogs and will open you up to a law suite. You are very lucky that the other dog belonged to a friend. 

This is a very common thing, but it cannot be trained away. However, it is not difficult to manage. Keep her on leash when other dogs are around. This behavior is just beginning in my 6 month old pup. The aggressive dog will single out dogs that are shy and uncertain. The more confident dog thinks it must drive away the weaker animal. May have something to do with instinctively keeping the pack strong, who knows. Whatever the reason for it, it will not go away.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Sounds like everyone is on the right track here, don't worry about her having dog friends. She doesn't need them. It will be harder to get her exercise but it just takes a longer walk rather than an hour at the park. I also agree that just seeing that second picture of her with the other dog would scare me, she doesn't look like she is playing and the other dog is clearly in distress.

And please, don't attack dog parks on this thread. Its not the dog park's fault this happened. Its the owner that brought a dog to the park that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Don't make it out to seem like a GSD should never be at a dog park, the fact that they adopted her and had no idea what her history was meant she probably shouldn't have been off leash at the park. Its not a breed thing. My GSD is perfectly fine at the dog park, there are many others that are too. Would he be perfectly happy not going to one? Probably, but when he's there he has a blast. Don't scare people away from dog parks because they have a GSD, plenty go to parks and are absolutely fine, for many people this is the only way to socialize their dog.

Marnie, your dog is too young to be deciding who is in the pack and who isn't. At this age you can still train it out of him. My dog started "testing his place" in the pack at 6 months of age and I would step in and correct him. I still correct him when I see him do anything like that. It is up to me to decide who gets to stay in the pack and who doesn't.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Dog parks are then...until the day they aren't anymore. And then it is too late and people come here confused and upset and may be facing a lawsuit.
I'm just not into risking my dogs' lives like that.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

_


martemchik said:



Marnie, your dog is too young to be deciding who is in the pack and who isn't. At this age you can still train it out of him. My dog started "testing his place" in the pack at 6 months of age and I would step in and correct him. I still correct him when I see him do anything like that. It is up to me to decide who gets to stay in the pack and who doesn't.

Click to expand...

_

I don't agree. It isn't fair to the other dogs to allow a bully into a dog park. Even if my pup is too young to start a real brawl, he is hard on timid dogs. His aggressive play drives them under benches, under owners feet, or makes them yelp. It is also a magnet for other aggressive dogs who display bad behavior when they see another dog doing it. There is no way any person can get to an off leash dog fast enough to guarantee there won't be trouble. I could use an e-collar, but why? IMHO, the very timid , the aggressive, and the very small should not be off leash with a pack of strange dogs. Absolutely  no point in risking a bad situation.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Was typing on my android phone, sorry 

Dog parks are FINE...until the day they aren't fine anymore. And then it is too late and people come here confused and upset and may be facing a lawsuit or their dog is lying in the vet clinic with life-threatening injuries (or even dead).
I'm just not into risking my dogs' lives like that.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Its up to every person to determine if they want to go to a park or not, it also depends on the area you live in and the kinds of owners that take advantage of the dog park. I haven't run into many dangerous situations, I'm able to read the dogs and realize when it is time to leave and get my dog out of there. Most times its the other dogs that are the issue, but sometimes its my dog and like Marnie said, its unfair to the other owners to bring a bully into the park.

But I have worked hard on making sure that he doesn't bully dogs, and if you start at a young age you can definately form your dogs interactions with other dogs. He used to be pretty bad about showing his dominance, but I worked on it and now he will do it to a select few dogs. When I see this, I pull him away from that dog and we go to another area. I completely understand that most owners don't realize their dog is doing something wrong and are probably "proud" that their dog is acting in that way. I never was, clearly Marnie you aren't either and so you don't allow it by avoiding the situation. I was just saying that you can work on these things especially when they are so little and not yet as powerful as they will be. I was just suggesting you try to work on it, if it's not something you're interested in fixing, and don't care about then its not a big deal, I think your dog will have a great life dealing with just you. I also don't know how "bad" he does it, it might be way worse than what mine would do, and you might be right, it might not be fixable. 

I think that I like dog parks because they give me the experience and opportunity to learn dog body language (especially mine) and figure out what they are thinking/doing. If I hadn't seen the body language that is shown in picture #2, I would've never thought that it was bad. But I have, and I know that when a dog is acting like that its time to go before it escalates. Most owners aren't like us though, they don't sit on forums wanting to learn more and more about dogs, so I know the kinds of owners that make the dog park dangerous, I just try to control the environment as best as I can for the safety of my dog, if I know I can't control it anymore, we go somewhere that I can (home).


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

If it eases your mind at all.....I got my GSD at the age of 2. She has always been extremely reactive to other dogs. She just doesn't like them. I had three young kids, when I adopted her. She absolutely adores kids and would never, never, never hurt a human. She is getting close to 14 years old now. In her old age she has mellowed greatly, is seldom reactive to other dogs and has even made a few doggie friends.

It is up to you, how hard you try to work on the dog aggression. I never tried. I have a large yard for exercise and, in her younger days, muzzled her on walks. I did not have another dog in the home and it was really not an issue to me. Nope - didn't do dog parks.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

no dog parks i know it sucks i really wanted to go to dog parks also but i have accepted the fact with the breed and dog that is this alpha and or reactive to other dogs it is not going to be an option ever its not practical or fair to other people and their more gentle dogs


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