# Unique problems with rescues



## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

We adopted Neeko when he was almost 4, the only thing we were told was: he lived with children and that the door was left open and he got out and attacked a Pom. I didnt think much about it at the time, these things happen. But now, since we have had him and BTW, he has NEVER shown aggression to me or hubby....he doesnt seem to have any male/female issues as far as whose in the house. he likes both of us. He follows me around ALOT but i think because I do more with him..... if someone comes to the door, he goes insane. I thought I could handle it, I told my grown son who BTW isnt a huge person or scary IMO looking "he will bark but just ignore him" well, he took one step in and Neeky Neek was going batty it was kind of scary. 
Truthfull if I had known this about him, I would not have taken him in I wouldve thought he needed a more experienced, STRONGER handler. He is very stron, he has already taken me down once. he came with a prong collar, so I am guessing he wasnt given much training. I dont like walking him because he even goes nuts on dogs behind fences and he barks at the dog next door even tho he cant see him, theres a 6 ft fence between our properties... because of what happened at his former home, I am extremely careful when we open the front door and he has been good, he seems to know now he isnt allowed out the front door . like Sashi, only with a leash on. From he way he is acting, I am getting dirty looks!! barking, lunging, going crazy you name it and he is so good with just my hubs and I!!
OK onto other problems. Out in the yard, he doesnt like to do anything except me turn the hose on and then he attack the water nozzle thing, he has nailed my hand kind of a couple of times, he gets REALLY wound up. He wont chase a ball out there. I have all kinds of balls for him.








I get so dirty out there because he jumps all around and my yard is getting torn up grass. Neko is more important but my grass was looking nice and Im getting kind of worried. Its looking BAD and this is all he likes to do!
I am sure realizing that Rescues can come with special problems I know its not Neko's fault, my husband thinks he was probably kept in a crate alot and not worked with much. the question is, how far gone is he and how hard is it to re train a 4 yr old GSD> I got him in end of March and he was 4 in May. thanks for any advice/help!









I wish he could talk! No one really talked FOR him, he was just dumped off So, I have to wonder. He has ALOT of prey drive, he attacks lizards and even the other daay he was trying to catch a big snake







I turned the hose on both of them LOL hubby said I shouldve let him catch it, he hates snakes LOL


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

My shepherd Sarge was a rescue too. He had no idea about anything when he came to us. He used to go insane too when the doorbell rang. Then he would be right in front of you as you tried to open the door. It was like a mad house every time someone came over. 

What we did was practice a lot with him. Have your son or someone help by ringing the door bell. As soon as he starts to react, redirect his attention to you. make him sit and stay before the door gets opened. If he doesnt know how to sit and stay, start with that.

When he sits, give him a good treat. Then make him stay while you open the door. If he braks the stay, close the door and leave the person outside. Soon he'll get the idea that nobody comes in until he can sit and stay until you release him. When he does it correctly give him a treat and let him come over to company for some pets.

As for the walking part. Sarge always wanted to chase cars. So we went outside with his leash on and stood by the curb. I would see a car comming way down the street. I would watch his reaction. As soon as I saw his ears move or any reaction that told me he was getting interested in the car, I gave him a small correction with the leash and told him NO, LEAVE IT. If he let the car pass he got a treat and some pets and positive encouragement. 

When he got that down pat we started doing walks. the same Idea applies to other dogs, kids on bikes, or whatever. You have to make the correction before he goes into the insane mode. Once he goes there hes not paying any attention you what so ever. 

All these things are try and repeat, repeat, repeat. Dogs learn things when you you do it exactly the same way every time, no exceptions. They learn by sheer repetition. 

Hes a short video of sarge and I now. Watch the end and youll see how the door thing works now. I use cut up hot dogs as treats, I buy the cheapest dogs there and he loves them and really works to get them.

http://www.sgttech.us/butch/sargetraining.wmv


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

Structure, structure, structure. My Diesel was 3.5 years old when he came to live with us. He is a VERY high drive dominant working line male who is more than willing to bite for real if necessary. He was also kenneled and crated all of his life when not being exercised. He had no manners, and is the strongest dog I've handled by far even though he's only 75 pounds. He has come quite far. It can be done. I would...

1. Create structure for each situation that is frustrating you. You need a routine that you will go through with him whenever visitors come. His job at that time is to look to you, and stay next to you in a sit or down until released. Do this on leash until he is solid with it. I would put the leash on his flat collar and maybe a pull tab on his prong so you have the ability to give a prong correction if needed but it will not amp him up by nagging him with it. Which brings me to #2.

2. Fit your prong properly for maximum control. In your picture, it's way too low and loose. He's wearing it like a necklace. My guess is you could lose 2-3 links on that and it will fit properly. It's not meant to wear all the time, and when it is on it should be high and tight under the jawline snug. Not choking obviously, but as tight as can go without choking.

3. Obedience, and LOTS of it. Get him in a class, and work with him 5-10 minutes per day. Heck, I'd even make him work for his food by doing OB for each handful of kibble. Putting him in the mindset of following you is KEY and will help address all other issues.

4. STOP the hose. No more. I would not take him into the yard before he is walked first (and walking is not to explore, it's to follow YOUR lead - start with treats and be more interesting to him than the rest of the world). And then, play structured games with him. Try more with a ball, maybe clip it to a leash. If he has prey drive, he will chase a ball - maybe nobody has played with him before. It will take time, maybe clip a ball to a seash and put some movement into it? Try a tug, or a stick. 

The only thing that is very hard to train an older dog is how to behave around young children in my opinion. The rest can be done, and almost as easily as a puppy.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Lots of good advice! 

The problems you are having are not so much unique to rescues as they are common problems with dogs who have not been given any structure or direction and have filled in the blanks for themselves - and of course that is one of the many different reasons that dogs are given up eventually by the owners who didn't bother to train them in the first place. There are some dogs who can sort of "raise" themselves and still turn out to be easy pets but that's going to depend a lot on breed and individual temperament. A strong, intelligent, drivey GSD is almost never going to be one of them. So your pup has filled in a lot of blanks for himself and gotten into bad habits that it will now be your task to unteach him and replace with alternate behaviors. Happily this is very doable! You've just got to go back to the beginning and start over - which I realize is harder now that the dog is large and strong rather than a tiny cute puppy. It can also be frustrating for the new owners because they feel like a dog of this age _should_ know how to do these things and when he doesn't, his misbehavior is willful, but try to put such thoughts out of your mind and remember your wild child has been without direction for the first 4 years of his life so he's been having to make it up as he goes along. 

Structure and lots of obedience are great places to start. Is there anything you feel like you can do with your dog to exercise him safely? A tired dog is a well-behaved dog and when your dog is wound really tight from years of crating and low activity, it can be helpful to put in a lot of time tiring him out which will help him focus mentally on the other training stuff you'll be doing.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

What kind of training have you done with this dog? How did you introduce your son to him? Was he on a leash? Loose in the house? 

How long have you had Neeko? I keep coming back to what training you have done with him since adopting him. Training is so very important. When I place a dog I always make the adopter contractually obligated to start training with a professional within a certain amount of time (I generally put three weeks, since that gives the adopter a good idea of what behaviors they would like to work on).

Did the rescue you adopted through give you any recommendations regarding training?
Sheilah


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## gr8flcat (May 13, 2006)

There is some really good info here. I also adopted a 5-6 yo with very strong prey and a huge bark. He is a big ole love in the house. In the yard he is a maniac IF we let him start the barking and the patrolling. I agree hot dogs are a great for training and only use them for this. The rescue should be able to give you some advice. Getting training is key as well. No matter how many dogs (including gsd's) I have worked with and fostered, when it came to Silas, I needed someone to confirm and correct my training with him.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Thank you for all of your advice/reasssurance. Ive worked with Neko neek almost since I got him, At first, we just wanted him to feel at home so we just worked on making him feel at home, get used to our routines, etc hubby has very weird work hrs, gets up at 3:30AM so Neek is used to thaat now. 
He gets home around 2 and had planned to take him for a walk everyday, let me explain, Sashi my dog who died last Aug was mainly my dog, he really only let me handle him so i had hoped Neeko and JW could do alot together. But he has some numbness in his hands sometimes and he said he had a hard time walking him. He is just so wild. And gets wilder if he sees another dog, people, etc as in aggression kind of way. 
I spent the first couple of mos teaching him not to jump on the fence which my other GSD never did. He is much better at it but will run up and down the fence like crazy if someone is walking by. 
He is a good dog he just has all of these "issues". I really wish he would like to do something out in the yard except for this insane chase th water nozzle thing im thinking prior owners got him in to this. I cant even water my flowers without him jumping up trying to grab it out of my hand. 
OK, he was off leash when I went to introduce my son, I warned him ahead of time that he would bark so he was prepared but even I became alarmed, my husband tried putting a leash on him but that made it worse and frankly, my son was afraid I dont blame him. 
What I meant by unique problems with rescues is: you dont know what the former owners did with them, I dont think he was abused but I dont think they worked with him much. the husband (I was told) was very upset when he brought him in th wife didnt want him and told him to PTS so a woman intervened and she paid for him to be boarded at the place where the owner has lots of GSD's. he was very good out there. When we went to look at him, he seemed nervous and pacing but showed no aggression. It all started when he became at home here. Maybe he thinks someone else will come and take him away and he tries to keep them away?? I try to think like a dog sometimes.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: sit,stayWhat kind of training have you done with this dog? How did you introduce your son to him? Was he on a leash? Loose in the house?
> 
> How long have you had Neeko? I keep coming back to what training you have done with him since adopting him. Training is so very important. When I place a dog I always make the adopter contractually obligated to start training with a professional within a certain amount of time (I generally put three weeks, since that gives the adopter a good idea of what behaviors they would like to work on).
> 
> ...


They said he would have to be evaluated as to if he needed group or single.....my husband called and gave them a fill in on some of the things we have seen him do. Ive had to put tables in front of front windows, he kept jumping on the windows all the time. 
He is in good hands, the person doesnt have to worry, he told me if any reason I couldnt keep him to bring him back which I would certainly do. 
He now knows sit, "take it easy" (treats) and I am now working on "wait" just feel its a good excercise for him and working on down. the problem is, if other dogs or people enter pic, he goes totally nutso. I would love to take him out and socialise him but kind of worried about how he will act Im afraid he would go after another dog mainly and Im not very strong I know thats where training comes in and that involves being around other dogs eeks


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

I would have to say the most important thing to remember is. You are in charge at all times. The dog has to understand that or your never goinna get anything done. If you try and treat him or her like a person your going to end up with a dog who thinks hes the alpha in your group and will take on all the decision making in and out of your home. The dog will decide who comes in and who dont. Who you get to talk to on a walk and who you dont based on the way the dog sees it.

Dont try and read too much into the way the dog acts and trying to figure it all out. Hes just never been taught the right way to act. Its as simple as that. Just get started with the advice from above and with a little time she'll be like a different dog. 

Keep us informed with your progress, even a video would be cool.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Neeko is being like Bart Simpson,







but he wants to be like dignified Hugh Downs!
















Training is cool cos it means "stuff he can do." But, he is crying out for STRUCTURE as John mentions. He needs you to BUILD structure into his day. Into situations he is in. Into everything-- starting as soon as you get the guidance on how to do this!

For now, begin reading up on the 'net on NILIF.

Get a copy of "My Smart Puppy" by Brian Killcommons and Sarah Wilson.

Give Neeko a job to do when his din-din comes: Sit, give focus, wait until released to charge up to his foodbowl.

Give Neeko a job to do when you open the door: Sit, give focus, wait, heel (as you go out on a walk).

Give Neeko a job to do when you see another dog: Have him sit, give focus (see a pattern here?), and then toss him his toy or a treat, then keep right on walking. (Note: Do this when the dog on walks is far enough away that he does NOT react)

Give Neeko a job to do when a guest stops by: Fake guest knocks on the door, you say "Place." He goes and lays down on his bed. He must stay there until released-- even when the fake guest comes in and vhats a moment, then leaves. Have a longline on Neeko to correct him.

Neeko is Bart Simpson, and he wants to be Hugh Downs. Give him structure. Training? Sure! Classes? Great! BUT-- this dog needs you to become much more involved-- now-- in giving him tons and tons of STRUCTURE built into his daily activities. This requires you to think, to plan, to envision how mealtimes will go, walks before even leaving the house will go, everything for this dog. Pre-train the focus, the sits, the go-to-your-place. He is CRAVING structure.

This may all seem overwhelming, but having a private trainer on board for helping you add structure for this dog is the way to go. This way, you can envision firmly in your mind what you want BEFORE it is time for a walk, time to eat, time for a guest, time to see another dog, etc etc. Classes are nice, sits and downs are nice, obedience training is nice-- but *structure* is what this dog is BEGGING for, and will calm down and be more responsive to you once he gets it!


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

wow Butch!! the vid with Sarge was so impressive!! He is very well behaved (and handsome) He seems so CALM.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Lots of great advice and suggestions have been posted here already









I just wanted to add that I do think there is always hope. We adopted Brodie at the age of 4 1/2 from a shelter and we really knew nothing of his background. Needless to say, it was a very interesting couple of years that followed - he was a dominant boy in many ways but also had reactive redirected aggression and some fear based reactivity as well. Did not do well with men. Pretty much no food or toy motivation yet lots of prey drive for other animals (not to mention moving vehicles) so training was not easy! But I really plugged along with his training, which was difficult because he was (and still can be) a very strange dog to read and anticipate. He taught me more than I can even begin to say in regards to becoming a stronger and more assertive handler. 

Some of the biggest things that helped were to: 

a) Doing TONS of basic training (for control work, we did lots and lots and LOTS of "downs"...this really helped in that any time he even started to show that he might escalate over something, I would place him in a down, as he otherwise could not be re-driected for the life of me!). Started with no distractions, then started adding smaller distractions to proof it. This might be something that would work well for the fence and people walking by issue - to learn that a reward will come not for jumping and lunging at the fence by rather downing and quietly watching....may take alot of tme but may be well worth the effort. Even getting someone to walk by over and over so you can do lots of repeat sets of this training to instill it in. I would also try it with the hose issue (of course starting with the hose not at full blast). 

b) NILIF. <u>Literally</u>. He worked through obedience for everything and anything...to go outside, for meals, for fresh water, before entering/exiting a door, for attention or a pet etc.

c) Formal training classes in addition to the home training. It took about 6 mos to a year just doing home stuff before going to classes. We did many OB classes and then started doing tracking to keep him mentally busy as well once he got a bit more under control. 

The following may sound a bit brutal but I pretty much ignored him for weeks aside from getting him to work for anything he wanted. It seemed to help to get him to be more willing to "work" and listen to me. It was hard to do, as I do like to be a bit sucky and cuddly with my dogs but in all reality, I think there are some dogs that this can be done with without problem, while for others I think it is a detriment in that they start to feel inflated with too much of this kind of attention so they start to feel as though they indeed rule the roost....(not saying that you do this, just saying it was something I did, esp since I did feel sorry for him since he was so obviously out of his element being around people, being allowed in the house, not knowing what a toy or dog bed was etc).

These are just a few things....there were alot of other things that I did as well but I just wanted to say that it wasn't an easy road and it was incredibly emotionally frustrating at times







I often felt like a total dolt with an out of control dog, so i had to learn to swallow my pride and keep on with what I was doing despite what looks I got







I would say it took me about 2 years to get the point were I felt we had met our goals! Now that he's 10 and really quite a pleasure, it is hard to remember what it was like in the past!

Best of luck to you and keep us posted


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: BrightelfGive Neeko a job to do when his din-din comes: Sit, give focus, wait until released to charge up to his foodbowl.
> 
> Give Neeko a job to do when you open the door: Sit, give focus, wait, heel (as you go out on a walk).
> 
> ...


Above is key, since if he is doing these things he cannot be a butthead! I would have this dog on leash at all times outside and inside. Inside, a regular leash and let him drag it. Outside, a long line and let him drag it. You cannot fix what you cannot correct.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

thanks all I hope I can hang in there with wideload lOL for 2 yrs. Ive been working with him tooday. Like, usually he bursts out the back door, I made him sit and wait. He doesnt seem dominant, he is really very sweet, not good with people he doesnt know though. I think that is what bothers me about him. I am worried. I hope its not a bad temperment problem and old owners failed to warn anyone. they wanted a home for him and that was it. He really did scare me when my son came to meet him my son I can tell is like: here she goes again but he did make the comment: you sure wont have to worry about anyone trying to break in, hes right they;d have to be nuts. I only did the water hose thing with him one other time today and then I told him: thats enough and dragged it up towards back door. I hate that the most, its all he wants to do. <aybe I will get lucky and meet a diehard GSD fan nearby and they will help (socialize), believe me, the way he acts, my non dog friends dont want anything to do with him and cnt blame them, he puts on a scary act







, it took a good 10 mins to tear him away from the window and get him in backroom to let the Verizon guy in. Thats what has been the biggest obstacle, I didnt expect this when we adopted him.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

If you are brave, you could cut a piece of hose and play tug with him with it. That is something he would work for I bet. Some SchH handlers use pieces of hose to reward with in training.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I'm sorry, I don't see this as "rescue dog behavior." It's dog behavior, period. I don't think being a rescue has one darn thing to do with it.

If I had more time, I'd elaborate but I have to get outa here. He needs more STRUCTURED exercise, not just do what he wants to do, he needs LEADERSHIP and some good strong consistent training. My Riley used to do some of the same things your Neeko is doing. We have had some good success with our training but the biggest and best changes came after he was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and put on the meds for that. 

If you don't find a way to reign him in, you could have a really dangerous dog on your hands. You need to get control of him before something bad happens above and beyond the incident where he attacked the other dog. By the way, other-dog aggression can be a symptom of hypothyroidism.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

OK, will have thyroid checked. Are thyroid dogs tend to be overweight? Ive cut down on his food, 3 c day and sometimes less and hes STILL overweight, he waddles, its strange, it doesnt show up in pics. 

As the Prong collar, he is out in the yard in pic so yes, it is a little loose. I do put it up higher if hes out on the street. And I will step up the repitition and OB. 

He has made a little improvement since he has been here. He doesnt jump on the fence much anymore I spent first 2 mo taking him out in back on a very long leash so I could correct him everytime he jumped on the fence. This AM he was out by himself and dog next door was out barking, they were both barking, but he didnt get so out of control that he wouldnt listen to me, when I came out into the yard, with leash he came over to me and he came right in with me. Before, it wouldve been insane running up the fence, jumping on the fence. I am just lucky my nabes cooperate with me and bring theirs in, too. 

I am going to try and get someone to come over here and do the doorbell so I can work on that, it is crazy if someone comes to the door right now. I cant take much more, I like to think i can open the door and not fight with a 90# dog about it. he shoves himself in front of me and I cant even open it until I put him away. 

I DO see it as a rescue dog/someone else screwed up here problem and they passed it all on to someone else when it came to a head instead of DEALING with it. 

John- can you tell me best way to teach a down? It has been very hard to teach him, he knows sit but Ive tried and tried to teach him "down" I even try taking his 2 front paws and sliding him down. 
I dont know how I will teach him to like the ball, Ive tried every which way to get him interested, I throw it and he ignores it ts like he doesnt even see it, he likes stuffed plushy toys. He does like to play tug. Im not sure if he will do it in the yard though my hubby has snake phobia so he only plays with him in the house and its usually tug with one of his plush toys. 

*yes, he has prey drive, he was really going after that snake the other day!! *


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

Sashmom said:


> OK, will have thyroid checked. Are thyroid dogs tend to be overweight? Ive cut down on his food, 3 c day and sometimes less and hes STILL overweight, he waddles, its strange, it doesnt show up in pics.
> 
> 
> <span style="color: #3366FF"> According to my vet - yes weight problems can be associated with thyroid problems.</span>
> ...


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: SashmomJohn- can you tell me best way to teach a down? It has been very hard to teach him, he knows sit but Ive tried and tried to teach him "down" I even try taking his 2 front paws and sliding him down.
> I dont know how I will teach him to like the ball, Ive tried every which way to get him interested, I throw it and he ignores it ts like he doesnt even see it, he likes stuffed plushy toys. He does like to play tug. Im not sure if he will do it in the yard though my hubby has snake phobia so he only plays with him in the house and its usually tug with one of his plush toys.


I like teaching anything using markers. Get a bag of high value stinky treats. Hot dogs, liver wurst, whatever he loves. break them into small pieces so he does not have to chew them, but gets the taste. Do this before he eats. Start by luring him into the down position over and over for a reward. Hold the treat at face level so he sees and smells it, and then bring it down to the ground while holding it in your fist. He will dig and push for it, but keep your hand closed until the moment his (all four) elbows hit the floor. If for some reason he will not go down while he digs at the food, get on one knee when you do it and lure him under your other leg. In order to get the treat he will HAVE to go down.Once they do, say "YES!" and open your hand. Do this a good 20 or so times. When the light goes on, and he dives into a down he understands the position. Now that you know he will do it, then AND ONLY THEN do you add the word "down" as you lure him into position. Do 3-4 sessions of luring and saying down in repetition. Then, try just the word. Remember, you are saying YES and then treating the very moment all four elbows hit. You have about a second to say yes so that he understands what he is being rewarded for. If you teach it this way, it will be crystal clear to the dog what you want, and what he is being rewarded for. No pushing, no struggling and no corrections at all yet. He needs to understand comletely the exercise before any correction is added. 

As for the playing tug in the house, I avoid that at all costs. For me, that sends mixed messages. I want the house to be where we rest and a place of calm interaction. I actually extend that to my yard as well. I may train exercises with food in my yard, but tugging is done on an open field for me. Maybe walk the yard first, and then get your husband a piece of hose to play tug with him. Teach him an out (we can help you) and also throw the piece of hose and see if he will bring it back. Good exercise for him, and you can work in some focus games while you do it. In my opinion, 5-10 minutes of hard drive/focus work is better than an hour of walking to tire him out.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I like teaching down with a lure, as John describes. It is important though, to only have food in your hand as long as necessary. Once he's following that lure into a down, use an empty hand to lure and treat him from the other hand. The lure motion will become your hand signal. 

In addition, you can mark and reward him whenever he lays down on his own. This is called "capturing" a behavior. You're not telling him to do anything, you're simply catching him in the act of doing it. If he lays down, either mark it verbal or with a clicker and give him a treat, then you can release him and toss a treat across the room so he has to get up to get it. Then wait for him to lay down again.







When you can see that he's just about to lay down, give the command and wait - mark the second he hits the floor and reward - he'll start to associate the verbal command with the behavior. I do this as soon as I bring home a new puppy, and it works amazingly well. The more a behavior is rewarded the more a dog will offer it up.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Patti-Bart Simpson








He is like a football lineback runner. wow, is he strong. He just doesnt know how to act. He TRIES to be a good boy but doesnt know how and on top of it, I dont think he was very socialized. its one thing to take a 10 wk old puppy out on the street to work with them and get them socialized and then take a 90# barking, lunging 90# one out there, people are afraid of him and rightfully so, if I saw him Id make a wide berth too. 
Ive chopped up some chicken into really small pieces and will work today on the downs. thank you John and Cassidys Mom. I dont know why but teaching down has been hard, its like he has no understanding he doesn't "get it". ive tried taking the piece of food, holding it in front of his nose and slowly going down to the floor with it. He just sits there and stares at it. 
Maybe the lightbulb will go on.








Hes a smart dog I just dont think his prior owners taught him much. 
I really wish I could afford a private trainer to work with but had a new roof put on (07), we have probs with it and may have to pay someone else to figure out what is wrong


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Sashmomwow Butch!! the vid with Sarge was so impressive!! He is very well behaved (and handsome) He seems so CALM.


I like to show that video because Sarge was an out of control, Abused, starved Rescue when we got him.He actually looked like a grey hound, you could count all his ribs. With a little work and patience hes a happy loved member of our family. He wasnt even house broken because he lived outside tied to a tree with no dog house for the first year of his life.

No dog to me is a throw away. They just need more patience and more work then most.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: I dont know why but teaching down has been hard, its like he has no understanding he doesn't "get it".


Is there a good quality clicker training class in your area? Especially one that is tolerant of "problem" dogs? I think that could REALLY help you. You're doing a lot of things right but sometimes it helps a lot to see the techniques demonstrated and have someone there to help you with trouble shooting. Because I think you're right - he just doesn't "get it" quite yet. But man - when you make that breakthrough - when he finally understands some of the things you're asking for, it will be seriously one of the most amazing experiences ever! I have worked with a lot of dogs like him - dogs that simply weren't taught how to learn, dogs that had to make it up as they went along because no one was guiding them, and when they finally have that breakthrough, it's just so beautiful. It's like they've been waiting their whole life for someone to teach them and they just can't learn fast enough after that. I have found clicker classes to be the very best thing for establishing a baseline of that kind of communication with a dog who hasn't done much previously. And hopefully a group class would be more affordable than private lessons. But the quality of the class is key because an overcrowded class with less than stellar instruction at his stage could really set you both back. He definitely needs space away from the other dogs and an accepting atmosphere to find his footing.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I know that your Sasha taught you a lot of things and was a joy. Neek is going to teach you an entire other set of things. He has much to impart. Once he gets it across (and you learn even more about talking "dog") you'll have a most rewarding life together. But you have to earn it - Sasha just handed it to you.

I'm going to recommend my favorite website - Bill Campbell's: http://www.webtrail.com/petbehavior Look at the case studies especially June 1999. Campbell also has a book out called The new better behavior for dogs. I found it very interesting and insightful regarding dog/human behavior. It addresses every issue you are having.


As for how to teach a down -- The best way I was taught was to sit on the floor with your dog. Have a supply of treats (high value to the dog). Eventually the dog will volunteer a down (they don't stand or sit all the time.) Name and reward that action. excitedly. (Down! Good Down! Good Neek! Good Boy!). 

Now I'm going to be controversial so far as this thread is concerned. The prong collar may only be working as an agitation tool here. I'd back off of it. 

For walking, I'd go with a flat leather collar, a strong leather leash (will not burn your hands if pulled) and the lowest stimulus route and time of day you can manage. I would be bloody darned determined to be a concrete anchor. As soon as the dog puts tension on the lead, STOP. When he releases the tension, move forward. When he again applies tension, STOP. 

For now you will be avoiding to the extent possible (as much as possible - find a way to do this) other dogs including those behind fences. You will discover what his comfort level is with seeing other dogs and you will reward him at that level for not responding. You will gradually narrow this. Do not exceed his comfort level (reaction boundary) or you will have to back up to your previous level or earlier. 

While you are looking at books (www.dogwise.com has a great selection) look for something by Pat Miller. She has done a lot with dog reactive dogs. Then you might want to look at some back issues of Whole Dog Journal at your local library as well as buy a subscription to that.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Tried to edit but got distracted and missed my big chance...

Leather lead should be about 1/2 inches wide & 6 feet long. Anything wider is hard to handle.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

middleofnowhere, I have wondered if the prong makes him worse but I am just not strong enough to hold onto him. like I said it is like hanging onto a linebacker with a footbaall when he takes off he took me down so fast I didnt know what hit me
We had a breakthrough yesterday. I worked with him alot on downs and found keeping my hands closed worked as far as getting him to go down but then today, we had a set back. my hubby left garage door open and all of a sudden in the house I hear Neki barking SOMEWHERE so I run ut to garage and said wheres NEEK????? he was out running loose *(first time) I truly thought I would have a heart attack. the guy across the street was standing there with front door wide open and i see Neeki going towards his door so I screamed "Neek" and yelled for hubby but he was all over the place now hubby is mad at neek so Im pretty depressed right now. oh yea and I hear my hubby yelling when I caught up to them, he was in argument with neighbor who yelled at him cause Neek was in his yard, (we dont have the friendliest of neighbours)/
I just feel so discouraged right now.








I would walk him on flat if I could but honestly Im just not strong enough to control him. And.....he KNOWS when hes on a fllat collar and seems to know he can get away from me. He cant with the prong.
*thank God no one was out walking their dog or any loose dogs * 
When I was yelling for Neek, it was like he didnt even hear me. he was busy sniffing around all over the place and just kept going.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Go take a look at Bill Campbell's website. You'll be OK>


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SashmomWhen I was yelling for Neek, it was like he didnt even hear me. he was busy sniffing around all over the place and just kept going.


 He did not hear you. I went thru this with Yana and learnt my lessons. The best course in this situation would be to calmly go and get him without a word, no correction, no matter how mad and frustrated you were, apologize to the neighbor, and decide how to prevent something like this from happening next time. After that just stick to your training and do a lot of recall training on a long line.

ETA Sashmom, how do you hold your leash? I'm asking because I'm 5'1'' and 115lb and I could hold two 72lb young dogs on a flat collar when I was teaching them to walk nicely together using middleofnowhere's method.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Sashmom I worked with him alot on downs and found keeping my hands closed worked as far as getting him to go down but then today, we had a set back. my hubby left garage door open and all of a sudden in the house I hear Neki barking SOMEWHERE so I run ut to garage and said wheres NEEK????? he was out running loose *(first time) I truly thought I would have a heart attack. the guy across the street was standing there with front door wide open and i see Neeki going towards his door so I screamed "Neek" and yelled for hubby but he was all over the place now hubby is mad at neek so Im pretty depressed right now. oh yea and I hear my hubby yelling when I caught up to them, he was in argument with neighbor who yelled at him cause Neek was in his yard, (we dont have the friendliest of neighbours)/
> I just feel so discouraged right now.
> 
> 
> ...


The above situation had nothing to do with the dog. This was a human problem. Your husband left the door open when you had a dog in the house without a solid recall. Crap happens, but hopefully he was mad at himself and not the dog. Keep working with him and all of this stuff will go away. 

About the prong/flat collar situation. Why not put both on him and use two leashes? work with the flat collar, and have a reserve of power that you can use when needed with the prong.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

yes I know John. I wasnt mad at Neeko he is totally untrained he has no recall. I had been really careful about the garage, he goes out in the garage with me *hes kind of a velcro dog* and only if the outide garage door is down. Hubby was mad at Neeko for not coming to him when he didnt call him. 
Im going to start working on recalls. wow that was upsettting. thanks everyone for your advice.


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