# In dire need of advice, please



## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

My Dog kaiser is going to be 11 months old soon. He has suddenly developed an issue. I'm completely confused but it.

Sometimes when you go to pick something up off the floor, he lunges and bites at people. Or when someone moves while they are sitting down, or when they get up, he growls, sometimes lunges and bites. When people come into the room he sometimes charges them and jumps up and bites. I'm not sure if he's being dominate or resource guarding. Right now as i write this...he's laying on the floor, and ever so often staring down people and growling...

What do i do? How do i remedy this, I know i should talk to a trainer ..but up until that point, how should i deal with this??


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

How much training has he had prior to this? And what was his temperament before this started?

You say he is biting? How so? Full bites, nips, front or back? 

Right now, he should be 100% managed, on leash or crated. This is to protect the people and Kaiser.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

IMO, If he has SUDDENLY developed this issue, I'd be making a vet appt. Just to make sure he doesn't have a medical problem. Other than that, a crate for sure until he can be evaluated by a trainer or someone with more experience.

This doesn't sound good...or safe


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

When you write "people" is it you and your immediate family or casual friends or neighbors? What sort of items are you handling/picking up? To me biting is seriously crossing the line.

At this point all I can say, is that the adolescent stage is very challenging for the next 6 months or so. While searching for a trainer, research some training books and videos, and keep you dog leashed even when inside, or slowly try a muzzle until you can get good advice. Without details it is difficult to say how to deal with this.

Last question - is your dog well exercised?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

If he only is nipping it could be playing. I agree with Gretchen - are you giving him enough exercise? Also have you been playing fetch with him and tug? Tug will give him an outlet for biting and lunging - be sure to let him win at the end. Have you done any obedience training with him? You may also want to look into mindgames - there are several threads on it in this forum. As Katsmuse suggested, first rule out any physical cause before working on the training and exercise. You also may want to think back and see if this behavior is only with certain people, also if there were small incidents in the past when he did the same thing. If you got him from a breeder, you may want to ask the breeder.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Is this at home or in public?

Anyone would have to know a LOT more about your dog's behavior before they could even hazard a guess at to te cause and even more so a solution! Maybe a film of it if you can do it safely? but most of all, CONTROL him as others have said so no one or your dog will be harmed.

Given that he is still a puppy - I would guess that you can change his behavior (assuming it is not a medical issue!).


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Vet visit first, then trainer. In my home, biting is something that results in discipline. Mouthing, playing, being a baby landshark is different. Growling, lunging and biting is not acceptable. Don't give him the opportunity to do it until you get help.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

It sounds like fear aggression.
Does he draw blood? Does someone speaking to him cause him to get aggressive? Was he a shy or aloof puppy? You need a vet check, like the others have said, and then you need a veterinary behaviorist or trainer. Until you figure out what's going on he needs to be muzzled or crated when you have guests over. Don't let people touch him in public and get him into an obedience class as soon as possible.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Did he have Pano? Not excusing, just another reason to say vet check.


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

take him to the vet for a checkup...get his eyes checked...then maybe check for neurological issues.
if everything healthwise checks out...then look into training and socializing.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Maybe I missed it... But how long have you had him?
Did you raise him as a puppy?

Is he a rescue?
Or did you get him from a breeder?


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Like others have said, I would get a quick vet exam to rule out medical issues. I would also quickly get into training. Have you done any training. By this age you should have been training for several month already. Keep people from getting near enough to get bit until you get this under control. Leash, crate, and control until you figure it out. If you don't it could mean the end for your dog if it bites the wrong person. Socialization with dog wise people first. Keep children and non dog wise people at a distance until you work it out to protect the dog and you from legal problems. If it comes to it, a basket muzzle worn around the house will prevent any bites from happening and is more comfortable than the kind that keep the mouth closed completely. Here is a picture of Rossi, a friend's dog modeling the basket muzzle.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah, I'd take him to the vet first thing just to rule out anything medical going on, since this is new. Also, I think others' questions about who he is doing this to is important. My first GSD would nip/bite people (not our family) who came to our house/yard and picked things up. Didn't help that my ex-husband thought it was funny. We had to teach him no, that we didn't want him to do that. It can be that simple, then again it could be the first signs of resource guarding or some kind of fear aggression. More answers to some of the questions everyone has asked would be helpful.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

CeCe said:


> It sounds like fear aggression.
> Does he draw blood? Does someone speaking to him cause him to get aggressive? Was he a shy or aloof puppy? You need a vet check, like the others have said, and then you need a veterinary behaviorist or trainer. Until you figure out what's going on he needs to be muzzled or crated when you have guests over. Don't let people touch him in public and get him into an obedience class as soon as possible.


He did it again. Sorry if i jump around in this i'm really stressed out.

Last night he did draw blood. He attacked my mother as he was eating, she was walking away and he came at her. 

He DOES shy away or growl sometimes when people talk to him. Or if someone moves their foot, or hand, or gets up. If you put your hand out to him he will shy away too, sometimes growls. No ,he wasn't this way as a puppy, he was so lovable and playful..He is currently in his 3rd bout of pano, i got his pills for him. The change in him is disturbing to me and nothing has happened, there has been no traumatizing event or bad experience 

Another big issue is he has started going after people for simple stuff like, wiping done the counter with a cloth, he chargers at you. Or his you go to pick up something off the floor like a piece of paper, or even a clump of his hair, he charges barking and snapping.

I have made an appointment to have him neutered, not that i think this will completely fix the problem, but he constantly has an erection anymore and maybe he has some sexual aggression? Mixed with the pain from the pano this was a pretty bad bout he put almost no weight at all on his leg.

I'm highly considering getting him a muzzle, I saw the recommended one someone talked about in this thread. How safe is it for them to wear for an extended period of time? And what if muzzling him makes it worse? I mean he can't wear it forever, and then i will have to put it back on him, i'm worried that the second time i try and put it on he will pitch a fit.

People keep telling me to put him down, but i love him and i don't want to just give up on him.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sevastra said:


> He did it again. Sorry if i jump around in this i'm really stressed out.
> 
> Last night he did draw blood. He attacked my mother as he was eating, she was walking away and he came at her.
> 
> ...


I have never heard of pano causing aggression in dogs, but as someone else mentioned it, maybe there is a connection. Pain can definitely cause a dog to act differently, and if you are giving him meds, the meds might be causing a change in behavior. 

No, sexual aggression -- no such thing. Lots of people do neuter their dogs at the age your dog is because a lot of young dogs (and bitches) go through a teen-age phase where they forget their training and try to push their limits. It is a phase and with or without neutering (spaying) they should improve given they are worked through it with consistent management and training, and IF that is the problem.

We do not know that that is the case here. At this point your dog is at is probably an ok time to neuter if you had planned to do that. Do not think it will magically change this behavior though, because it will not.

I wonder what kind of medication your dog is on, and if there is a different type of medication you could try for pain, etc. Definitely talk this all over with your vet.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

Does he attack you or your spouse? 
He can not be around guests unless he is crated or muzzled. He will bite again. He should be wearing a muzzle or at least a halti when you walk him. You have a dangerous dog. My girl Lila is the same way-we have to be very careful with her. I highly recommend the book "Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff. You may want to talk to your vet about psych meds for the dog that can help balance his brain chemistry. It wont cure him but it can help. Private training with an expert in FA dogs can be very beneficial for him. Good luck and keep us updated on your progress.


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## Ares0311 (Apr 26, 2012)

Sounds very similar to my girl, which we adopted at 4 y/o. My pup was diagnosed with fear aggression and we now muzzle her where ever we go. Its safe for us, others and her. Plus, it seems to keep more people away from us on walks, which is great for her. We have worked with a behaviorist and dogs can work through fear aggression, but expect a year of dedication to training and teaching the dog to relax itself in what it sees as stressful situations. 

For a muzzle, get one that is open and allows your dog to pant, take treats and drink water. I picked up the Baskerville Muzzle (size 5) and its perfect for my dog. Watch some youtube videos on how to properly introduce a dog to a muzzle. My girl thinks that the muzzle generates car rides and dispenses treats and has no problems wearing it. 

For basic training, look into BAT training and LAT games, easy training to help your dog overcome fears. Works best if you have people who can help by being a trigger (from a distance). 

Lastly, be calm and reassuring to your dog. This is the hardest thing, he feels your stress and he'll lash out. GSD are extremely emotional and in tune with the emotions around them. 

Good luck and be patient.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

If you haven't already talked to your breeder, I would be doing this ASAP. This is not a sound dog from the sounds of it. No respectable breeder would brush this off. I'm very sorry. If not a medical problem it's likely to be a genetic issue.. and one that isn't fun to deal with in the long run.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

What meds is he on for pano.....rimadyl? Send me a pm with his pedigree....just curious what I will see. Seldom are situations like this occurs out of the blue....usually it is a gradual increasing behavior, whether it is genetic or lack of structure in home. Things like seizures can have an onset of aggressive behavior in people and dogs.....not normal but can be the case. It's is worth your while to take your dog to a very good behaviorist or trainer whom can usually spot very quickly the underlying causation if it's genetic or environmental.....if its medical you need your vet weighing in on possible causation.jmo


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

Yes ,He gets a couple walks a day and he gets free play during the day. He gets plenty of exercise. 

Kaiser will charge you if you are simply wiping something off your shirt while sitting in the living room chair. He is not playing, its a full on attack, he barks ,growls ,snarls...and bites. If you slightly move your foot he will do the same thing.

The types of things on the floor are like, a paper you drop, or clumps of his hair on the kitchen floor. Trying to put the door stopper back in front of the door. its literally everything.

Today i had a bunch of clothes i was folding on the chair, he didn't like that i was moving stuff around up there. Noises really bug him, if anyone coughs, he growls and gets really rigid. 

He is attacking the members of the house, Myself and my mother and my father. It was ONLY my mother, but recently he started with my father. And now myself. The past 2 days he has come at me 3 different times. 

I went into the vets yesterday and spoke with him about Kaiser. I let him know every issue he's been having, how he has been acting. He thinks he might have a tumor or some other neurological thing going on with him. Its a terrible situation that i really don't know how to go about


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm sorry you are having these issues with Kaiser - it does sound like something is amiss with him - 

At this point, I would work with your vet to try and find the issue - it does sound more like a neurological problem, rather than a behavioural one.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Brain tumors are hard to diagnose, but do cause issues as you have stated. My granddaughter had a well bred Sheltie puppy that started attacking for no reason. He would be lying on the floor, on the bed, sitting beside you, whatever set him off and he attacked and drew blood , he was not playing or acting like he was going to bite, he meant it and they were full out attacks. Thank goodness he was only 20 lbs, he was 6 months old.
We did euthanize him and had an autopsy done, he had a brain tumor. Nothing could have prevented it, nothing medically could have been done to keep him from attacking. Was he in pain? We don't know, but also wonder if the attacks were from intense pain? 
I hope things work out for your boy. He is alot bigger and able to do lots more damage than a Sheltie could. I ended up with stitches in my leg when he attacked me, that is when the decison was made to euthanize him.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Im sorry this has happened to you. If this has been an ongoing problem that has escelated to this point I would say behavioural issues that have gotten out of control through a lack of boundaries and consistent leadership. If its out of the blue Id place my bets on medical in which case your vet would know best. I hope you have a good vet, testing can be hard on the pocketbook. Until then i would keep him crated, muzzled and well excersiced.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

PETFAX Behavior Consultation: Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University you can do that. 

Your vet can do this: VETFAX Behavioral Consulation : Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine

I think those are a good starting point and could be helpful to you to get to that point of understanding what is happening/what you will do. 

Contact your dog's breeder just to let them know what's going on - I know from a rescue/foster's point of view, we always like to know and if we can help with referrals, information, etc. we will.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Wyominggrandma's post expressed the worst fear that you probably have for your dog. But that is all it is - at this point you don't know, your dog could very well have an illness that can be treated with medication or surgery. Please give your vet a chance to diagnose the illness. Blitzkrieg1 has a good point about vet expenses, and again, your vet can help you with that by giving an estimate of the cost and payment plans. If you have vet insurance for your dog, that will certainly help. If you purchased your dog from a breeder with a health guarantee that could also help once a diagnosis is found. To help your vet find the cause, I suggest you keep a careful record of your dog's behavior: date/ time of attack, what set it off, what was your dog's behavior prior to the incident and after. Also note carefuly if your dog is sleeping well, eating, drinking water, peeing & pooping normally, behavior on walks and during playtime. Keep a record also of what your dog eats and be sure to include everything, treats and any table scraps. Include labels that list the ingredients from the dog food package and treats.You could start this detailed record now but also include, as much as you can remember details from the start of the first incident. Take the record when go to your next vet appointment. Until then, get the basket muzzle that was recommended, so that you can keep your dog on his schedule for walks and play. For your dog's sake so he doesn't pick up on your anxiety, try to keep a postive attitude.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I've been wondering how did you react when Kaiser first lunged/bit? Did you correct him? Now, I understand that there may be a medical issue here, and that should be cleared up first. But aside from that, and considering it from training perspective and that your dog is in his adolscence, and that the behavior is continuing to get worse, it is possible that Kaiser is living up to his name, he has become the emperor. Sure when he was a puppy, he was fine, most are, or their antics are considered cute. But when the dog grows up, and those big teeth can do serious damage, it is no longer cute. Each time the dog acts up and gets away with the behavior, it encourages him to act up more and get away with more. It would be helpful for all of us who have posted on your thread, if you could let us know if you have done any training with Kaiser.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Was wondering if there was an update on this dog... Did you speak to the breeder about these issues? Have you gone back to the vet for more testing? Your last post describing the dog's behavior sounds much more than a behavioral issue.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Just came on here and read all of this. No one can tell over the internet but it sounds more medical than anything else to me. I too would like to know an update on Kaiser. Poor family.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Did the vet check his thyroid levels when you were there? _Sudden _behavior changes can sometimes be a sign of thyroid trouble (easily treated with an inexpensive medication). If your vet ran the thyroid labs in-house, I think I might be tempted to have a full thyroid panel (5-factor test or whatever it's called now) sent out to HemoPet, just to rule it out conclusively.

Here's some language from Dr. Jean Dodds, an expert on thyroid disorders in dogs (she runs HemoPet and personally reviews the lab results and reports there):

*In recent years, many investigators have noted the sudden onset of behavioral changes in dogs around the time of puberty. Most of the dogs have been purebreds or crossbreds with an apparent predilection for certain breeds (e.g., Golden Retrievers, Shetland Sheepdogs, German Shepherds, Cocker Spaniels, Akitas, Doberman Pincschers and Rottweilers). Many of these dogs also had begun to show the seasonal effects of allergies to inhalants and ectoparasites such as fleas, followed by the onset of skin and coat disorders, including pyoderma, allergic dermatitis, alopecia and intense itching.*
*A typical history starts out with a quiet, well-mannered and sweet natured puppy. The dog is outgoing, has attended puppy training classes to prepare for obedience, working or show events, and comes from a reputable breeder whose kennel has no history of behavioral problems.*
*However, at the onset of puberty, which varies from seven months to a year in age, sudden major changes in personality are observed. Typical signs may include incessant whining, nervousness, schizoid behavior, fear in the presence of strangers, hyperventilation, undue sweating, occasional disorientation and failure to be attentive. These can progress to sudden unprovoked aggressiveness in unfamiliar situations with other animals and with people, especially children.*

The full article is here: 
Behavioral changes associated with thyroid dysfunction in dogs.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Magwart, excellent post. I had wondered about thryoid also. I sure would do it. I'm keeping this in mind for the future. Hope Kaiser gets tested.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Any correlation between the timing of this behaviour and the start of the pain meds?

I know when you sedate a horse, some become highly aggressive, the opposite reaction of what you want.

I'm wondering if the meds are making him groggy or foggy, and is therefore acting highly defensive because he knows he's not quite right?

I also think neurological. I really hope you can get this sorted out, you must be so stressed!

((hugs))

ETA: accordng to Wiki:

One side effect of Carprofen and Etodolac: Change in behavior (such as decreased or increased activity level, seizure or aggression)


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## Sorashell (Jun 7, 2009)

Wow! That report sounded right on the money! I have no advice, just support and hoping its something fixable.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm going to be checking out everything everyone suggested. Sorry i haven't been on much, its been crazy

To answer some questions:
I haven't let Kaiser get away with anything from when he was a pup to the age he is now. At times, honestly, I felt like I was being a little too hard on him. Especially teaching him not to jump on people, because i knew he was going to be a pretty large dog etc etc. 
The first time he lunged at my mother, I stood up and in a stern voice i said his name and NO!. I took him by the collar off of her, made him sit down. And i removed him and put him in a room, closed the door and left him there for maybe 2 minutes. He was crying in there as soon as i closed the door. When i opened it again, i didn't let him out, i told him to sit and to stay. And walked away, then called him to come. Maybe that wasn't the right way to handle the situation but i wanted i wanted to remove him from possibly another confrontation and also to check my mother to make sure she was okay. 

I have spoken with his vet several times. He gave me some names of some trainers. I called two of them. One didn't really want to work with me and the other after talking to him for maybe 30 seconds about Kaiser, he told me to put down my dog and that he was sorry he couldn't help me. It pissed me off...i'm sort of a laid back person, but that really bugged me. I've called so many people in the past few days. I have finally found someone who is willing to meet with me and work with me either for placement, or for evaluating him and training him. He works with aggressive pit bulls and the Boston k9 unit. It was the first person i spoke with in the past days that didn't tell me to just put him down. He is going to bring me to his vet, which is a low cost, because he is part of a rescue, and they are going to do blood work on him and everything. So...I'm hopeful.

I have also told my mother to stop acting fearful of him, which i know is hard, but she would shy away from him or run away over the baby gate i have up if he would bark or growl at her, she is now standing her ground to him, and he MORE TIMES THAN NOT is backing down. We have only had one other pretty bad event with him, which was yesterday. My mother was sitting in a chair and she went to get up, and he completely lost his mind, and snarled and growled barked, was just...nutty. I was in another room. My father got to him before i could, and removed him from the situation. That's really all i can think to do with him some people have told me that removing him he may associate that person with being locked away....But the thing is, he is SO much better when i am in the house alone, his body language is better, he's playful. I'm in no way suggesting that my mother is his only issue. But he does seem to bully her a lot. 

He has always gotten a lot of exercise, not excessively, but quite a bit. But the past 2 weeks, he hadn't, which might have aggravated his problems. He had pano really bad this last time, the worst it had been. He is completely off the meds for that now.

I did notice something the other night, since its getting darker out sooner. I walked him down the street before i put him in his crate for the night. And everything was freaking him out, we went the same way we always do at that time of night, and signs, sticks, were freaking him out...his hair would go up he would bark and whine. I'm wondering if he has some bad night vision or something. Which again might be one issue. Because he seems to be worse at night.

I am planning to get him neutered , ( not thinking that it will solve his problems, but even if it helps a hair, i will be happy) which the guy i am going to be working with is going to help me do that through his rescue. Because I just spent over 700 dollars on a surgery for him because he ate a needle that my mother uses to do quilts...so money is tight right now. 

I have spoken with his breeders, and they done a lot to help me out with everything as well. I think someone asked me for his papers, and i don't have any. Kaisers father had papers, his mother did not. I was just looking for a dog, a family dog ...i wasn't concerned with papers. 

Since his pano has cleared up, i am running him again, and letting him play in the yard more. Taking him on his normal walks.

Tonight kaiser was really doing well. I was in the back tv room, and he was laying by my feet, he would bark if he heard someone out in the main living room, like move in the chair, or close the recliner, but he wouldn't charge them. 

He's been eating well too. because for 3 days he wouldn't touch his food.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Sevastra said:


> Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm going to be checking out everything everyone suggested. Sorry i haven't been on much, its been crazy
> 
> To answer some questions:
> I haven't let Kaiser get away with anything from when he was a pup to the age he is now. At times, honestly, I felt like I was being a little too hard on him. Especially teaching him not to jump on people, because i knew he was going to be a pretty large dog etc etc.
> ...


Thank you for coming back with this update! I'd suggest either using baby gates to restrict his movement in the house, or tether him to you, or use a basket muzzle until this is sorted out. My female attacked the elderly vet's wife when she was about a year old. No bark, no growl. Jumped up, grabbed her shirt and threw her to the ground in the blink of an eye. By the time I could react, she was just about an inch from the woman's throat as she was laying helpless on the ground. Bad things can happen VERY quickly. PLEASE protect your parents. Yes, they can sense fear and may bully those that are afraid. Especially if he knows he was able to chase her over the gate. I hope that the vet is able to find something wrong that can be treated. If this is all behavioral... I just don't know what to tell you. Nothing you want to hear, to be sure. With his aggression turning even to handler aggression.. and the sudden onset... I really, really hope that it's a medical issue. Is your breeder going to reimburse you for the cost of the dog? How soon are you able to get this dog in for the vet visit? Neutering won't be any cure. Been there, done that. I hope this trainer is able to do an intensive evaluation of your dog. I've been thinking of you, and hoping that everything works out. Please keep us updated. I'm so very sorry that things have gone this way. This is my favorite breed... but the shady breeders out there that create mental and behavioral messes anger me beyond all belief. Very few take responsibility for what they've created. It "seems" like it could well be a neurological or hormonal imbalance of some kind. The trainers who won't even eval your dog aren't worth your time. My guess is they figure he can't be 'fixed' or even managed and they don't want the liability. Good luck to you and your dog!


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## harmony (May 30, 2002)

Sevastra said:


> My Dog kaiser is going to be 11 months old soon. He has suddenly developed an issue. I'm completely confused but it.
> 
> Sometimes when you go to pick something up off the floor, he lunges and bites at people. Or when someone moves while they are sitting down, or when they get up, he growls, sometimes lunges and bites. When people come into the room he sometimes charges them and jumps up and bites. I'm not sure if he's being dominate or resource guarding. Right now as i write this...he's laying on the floor, and ever so often staring down people and growling...
> 
> What do i do? How do i remedy this, I know i should talk to a trainer ..but up until that point, how should i deal with this??


He is vaccinated for rabies, right? What kind of med is he on? Never had a dog (or horse)act like that before, but maybe you have something different? PM me if you want.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the update. Don't be so hard on yourself - you have done everything you could with his training. I give you credit for hanging in there and to keep on looking and trying. Kaiser is lucky to have you. The rescue trainer you found sounds great. I can sure see progress now that Kaiser is getting his exercise and eating well. With what happened last night, it really seems like it could be thyroid. Like the post suggested, it has to be the full blood panel (T5 test), as the T3 won't catch it. The expense of the test would be worth it and if it is thyroid, the medication (a daily pill) is cheap. For your mom's safety, you may want to keep Kaiser with you on his leash, or in his crate, so he can't take advantage and lunge at her, until he has had further training and his medical issues are resolved. Good luck to you both, and please keep up posted on his progress.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

if the blood work comes back all fine and his thyroid is normal with no issues then its VERY possible he is just being a really really bratty hormonal dog, who is taking advantage of anyone who shows fear to him (like a bully at school, you show fear and the bully takes advantage and smashes your lunch every day and harasses you the minute you show you are afraid)
some dogs will take advantage of people who show fear, especially if they are insecure themselves... its a good possibility that he is just an insecure dog with weak nerves with alot of testosterone with having his balls still, so maybe neutering him will make him less of a bully per say.... 

you can also give him NO freedom. do NILIF Nothing in Life is Free with him entirely, no furniture, no beds, NOTHING.... he must EARN everything, from food to pets to walks to attention... some dogs get too big for their britches at a certain teenage age, and its very possible your dog is at that stage.... its possible he got too much freedom and too much doting on and now that he is in his bratty stage with the fact that he is intact he is acting like a fool.... its worth it to try, NILIF doesnt hurt anyone, it just brings the dog down a few notches to where they belong and how they should act...


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm so glad to hear that you found an experienced trainer to help you with Kaiser. Good luck and keep us updated.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

it sure does sound like your dog is insercure and fearful. and SO true they feed off anyone who shows fear around them.

i have a dog very similar, genetically he is just that way. its disapointing to get a dog like this and you have to think long and hard about commiting to working with them. it is a huge liability.

i also had my dogs thyroid checked, no such luck it would be a matter of giving him a pill and some maintenence training. his was fine.

took me a long time to find good trainers that had a perspective on this type of dog. i have been very dedicated to working with him constantly. Obedience training, his life style is black and white. he is fine with people as long as they don't show fear, i always instruct people what to do around them, and if i think someone isn't capable of interacting with him, i tell them to ignore him or put him away. he has come further than i ever thought possible, but will never be 100% and will always have to be watched. we do alot of exercises with him at training where i put him in a down stay and i walk away. then people will walk by him or pat him on the way by. in an obedience command he does well with that exercise. you just really need to find the right people and spend ALOT of time setting him up in different senarios. also, as with my dog, an activity like tracking can build his confidence and build your relationship with him as will working Obedience etc.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

mebully21 said:


> if the blood work comes back all fine and his thyroid is normal with no issues then its VERY possible he is just being a really really bratty hormonal dog, who is taking advantage of anyone who shows fear to him (like a bully at school, you show fear and the bully takes advantage and smashes your lunch every day and harasses you the minute you show you are afraid)
> some dogs will take advantage of people who show fear, especially if they are insecure themselves... its a good possibility that he is just an insecure dog with weak nerves with alot of testosterone with having his balls still, so maybe neutering him will make him less of a bully per say....
> 
> you can also give him NO freedom. do NILIF Nothing in Life is Free with him entirely, no furniture, no beds, NOTHING.... he must EARN everything, from food to pets to walks to attention... some dogs get too big for their britches at a certain teenage age, and its very possible your dog is at that stage.... its possible he got too much freedom and too much doting on and now that he is in his bratty stage with the fact that he is intact he is acting like a fool.... its worth it to try, NILIF doesnt hurt anyone, it just brings the dog down a few notches to where they belong and how they should act...


Kaiser has never been allowed on the furniture, ever. I have noticed though he will jump up on my mother when she is sitting in the recliner, and when she tells him to get down he whines and barks, just refuses, i tell him to get down off of her normally i say , " kaiser, look at me" to get his attention from his ranting and then, 'Down" and he gets right off her. And from a pup til about maybe 20 days ago he was only allowed in the kitchen and the living room, because he was getting into to much stuff, and i wanted to keep an eye on him. Now that he is out of that stage, he doesn't chew up anything anymore, I've let him into the hallway to the back tv room computer room...but there's a gate up on my room, my parents room ,the cats eating area, and on the music room, those are still off limits. If i am in them he will sit by the door. 

I've always made him sit, and waited til he was calm before i would pet him. Especially if i came home from being out. My father not so much,and my mother never has. We had a dog, a mix shepherd and lab, for 15 years and i think they kind of treat him the same way as Timba, he was such a sweet dog, wouldn't hurt a fly, best temperament, i think its hard for them to switch over to thinking this is a different dog, breed, temperament, etc etc. 

He has stopped growling and coming at me. He's completely off his meds now, i see a difference. Even my mother commented today that he is not as touchy. Clearly, it's not a solved issue, like tonight i was in my room and he was laying in the hallway next to it, he wouldn't let my mother down the hallway, i had to come out. I'm not sure if he's guarding me, or just the space...I'm really not sure. Because when my mother coughs ( she has a cold) he will mostly growl at her, if i'm in the room. lol which doesn't make any sense to me.

He is being neutered, not as soon as i hoped because of the way the surgery schedule fell, but on oct 3rd he's going in. I'm a little nervous about coming home with him, because he doesn't;t seem to take any sort of pain well, he's a big baby, ha. 

I should hear back from the trainer tomorrow.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

What I am going to suggest may not be popular.....

Consider waiting on the neuter until after the trainer has done a full evaluation and the results are back on any blood test. _I am not saying do not neuter, just the timing._ It doesn't happen often, but sometimes after altering behavior does get worse (taking into account time needed for hormones to leave the system). That did happen with my dog and if I remember correctly a couple others on here. I would also make note of the meds he was on this last time, so the vet can look at a lower dose or a different med next time. 

In the meantime, full management is needed: muzzle, lead on all the time. If anyone is unable to stop showing fear, the dog needs to be separated completely from them.

I have a dog that a former vet and a few trainers I had spoken with in the past said the best thing to do was pts. So I can understand your anger at hearing that. It does take working with the right people and understanding the work ahead of you, which it appears you do.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If it were me I'd take Cliff up on checking his pedigree for clues and I'd be asking the vet about a full thyroid panel.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

The people i got Kaiser from, have been in close contact with me. Both of the parents of the litter, and the previous litter, ( the mother was bred twice, with the same stud), and none of the other littermates show any signs of what my dog is showing. She did inform me however, that one of the pups from kaisers litter is having a hip replacement, but...both of the parents are hip certified. The breeders are actually really good people, and have helped me out a lot, have called checking up on him etc. I don't blame them for anything with Kaiser. I have noticed most of his aggression is from sounds...he seems to have a noise sensitivity ...anyone have any suggestions on how to work with this issue with him?

Oh and Kaiser is getting neutered today.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I hope Kaiser's surgery went well. And I'm sure you're relieved that is over. As for the noise sensitivity,I have a couple of ideas. I read in Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas, that she worked with a dog who was very scared of the train whistle. The dog lived in a house close to the tracks. She told the couple who owned the dog, to yawn when the train went by. When I was in college, I would walk a collie for elderly neighbors . The dog was terrified of thunder. He could sense a storm coming and would bolt and run home when they walked him. I did work with him and taught him to heel. When he would start to act nervous during our walks, I would have him heel. He had to concentrate on that and that seemed to help calm him. Giving Kaiser something to do when there is noise, and praising him for that, may help him also.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi everyone

So the constant battle with my dog continues...

Some things have changed...as far as he is with me, he is fine, he submits to me on his bed, i can walk over to him and lay with him, he lays in my lap etc. I can handle anything, do anything. He no longer comes after me. The problem still lays with my mother. He seems to pick her out and comes after her all the time.

The biggest problem is: my mother sitting in her chair in the living room, scratching herself, or picking something off the table, or doing her knitting when she starts to unraveling the yarn, Kaiser comes after her. He has been letting her back into the room after she doesn't back down and tells him "NO" firmly...This stuff normally occurs late afternoon or night. But its not just limited to that, he has done it in the morning and early afternoon...

Its so hard because i see how he is with me and how he is with her. Its insanely frustrating. The trainer I had arranged for an evaluation with suddenly backed out and stopped returning my calls. Frankly, i think he just wanted kaiser because after i told him he was neutered a couple days later his interest dropped. ( He had told me a friend of his was looking for a GSD). But i had told him of course i would want to keep him if he was willing to work with me on these issues....

Anyone have any ideas at all..I have talked to my vet, to trainers I have called so many in state, even stated to call out of state, they all tell me the same thing that i have a dominance issue, I just think there's something more to it then that, Though i am not a dog expert by any means, the sheer lack of anyone willing to help me is killing me. I fear I will have to put my dog down, I have even tried to find an alternative home for him, I have called new England gsd rescue, other places, no one will take him, or if they would they told me straight up he would probably be put down. I feel like i keep hitting a brick wall


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Wow. So...huh. I would try the Tuft's Vet Behavioral clinic - not sure if you are in NE and can actually get there, or would need to do Pet or Vet fax but I would give that a shot. 

I would also tether him to me in the house and not allow him to practice these behaviors with your mom. Not sure if you've had his thyroid check but it might be worth it. When you say he comes after her what does it look like? 

Here you go: Tufts Animal Behavior Clinic : Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine

Got her info off of the Suzanne Clothier website: 


*DOROTHY O'CONNOR at Canine Concepts * Scituate, MA canineconcepts @ comcast.net (remove spaces) or call 781-378-1198.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Wow. So...huh. I would try the Tuft's Vet Behavioral clinic - not sure if you are in NE and can actually get there, or would need to do Pet or Vet fax but I would give that a shot.
> 
> I would also tether him to me in the house and not allow him to practice these behaviors with your mom. Not sure if you've had his thyroid check but it might be worth it. When you say he comes after her what does it look like?
> 
> ...



When he goes after her, he flips his tail up, and its very stiff, he looks very tense. Just before it happens, very quickly, it seems like he is trying to avoid her...he turns quickly, walks away, lowers his head...but then turns back to her and charges her barking...

I'm no where near NE. And honestly, everyone that has said they deal with behavioral issues and aggression has turned me away its leaving me a little bitter. Mostly, because i know there are worse dogs, haha, my dog is no angel but i mean I exhausted the phone book and online resources for a trainer, behavioral expert, or jus anyopne to talk to me and give me advice, i have scoured over books in stores and online articles about the issue since those seem to be the only things that cant cut me off saying " i can't help you, you have a dominance issue and a dog that lacks bite inhibition" after talking to me for literally 30 seconds with some of them.


And to answer a reply from a while back, Yes,he is vaccinated against rabies he's up to date on all of his shots.

Oh, and i have had his thyroid checked, and he is fine health wise. The vet did however think he had a brain tumor or something neurological that was wrong, but seeing as he has made huge progress with me, and only focuses it on my mother...that seems unlikely now.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

Mary Beth said:


> I hope Kaiser's surgery went well. And I'm sure you're relieved that is over. As for the noise sensitivity,I have a couple of ideas. I read in Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas, that she worked with a dog who was very scared of the train whistle. The dog lived in a house close to the tracks. She told the couple who owned the dog, to yawn when the train went by. When I was in college, I would walk a collie for elderly neighbors . The dog was terrified of thunder. He could sense a storm coming and would bolt and run home when they walked him. I did work with him and taught him to heel. When he would start to act nervous during our walks, I would have him heel. He had to concentrate on that and that seemed to help calm him. Giving Kaiser something to do when there is noise, and praising him for that, may help him also.



I've actually tried playing with him while my mother is knitting, or when shes just sitting in the living room..moving around normally like a person would...and it does seem to distract him as long as i am distracting him CONSTANTLY, haha. Which leaves me no time during the day to do anything i have to do.


Anyone have any ideas while he will let her take him for walks and play with him outside, but as soon sometimes AS SOON as he gets in the door, he will go after her. It seems like he doesn't want her in his space, in the house, at all. I'm not sure why..

Another thing, just out of left field here, I don't know if he is protecting me, or thinks he is...he seems to be alot worse with her, i am in the room too. I also get really bad headaches, and my ear bleeds and i leak spinal fluid ( the doctors say i will end up with seizures from massive scar tissue in my brain) and he seems to be a lot worse with her, when i have a really bad headache....i don't even know I'm just reaching at this point


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I really doubt the Tuft's clinic will turn you away - and they can do stuff that is not in person - it's limited, but you know with Skype and things like that, you never know if they might even be able to "see" you. That's what the Vet/Pet Fax service is though (minus my Skype idea) a way for pet owners to get access to their behavioral clinic without having to be there. 

Have you ever contacted a Karen Pryor certified trainer? I do not know how they would deal with these behaviors but...you can't just let this behavior continue on the off chance that something were to happen....just throwing that out there as a different approach. https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer/YghZP

Have you read "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell.

Like I said, I would tether - this dog would not be near my mom unless he was attached to me, and if alone, he would be crated (I am guessing you do that but OCD forces me to say it).


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I really doubt the Tuft's clinic will turn you away - and they can do stuff that is not in person - it's limited, but you know with Skype and things like that, you never know if they might even be able to "see" you. That's what the Vet/Pet Fax service is though (minus my Skype idea) a way for pet owners to get access to their behavioral clinic without having to be there.
> 
> Have you ever contacted a Karen Pryor certified trainer? I do not know how they would deal with these behaviors but...you can't just let this behavior continue on the off chance that something were to happen....just throwing that out there as a different approach. https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer/YghZP
> 
> ...


I will look into doing that, thank you very much. I never leave my mother alone with him, no. And he is still crated when he is alone. I have thought about attaching him to something on a longer leash in the house, but not long enough for him to get at her when he decides to...I'm not sure if that would aggravate the issue or what. Sometimes I can't have him attached to me 24/7


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Implement these immediately, especially leashed to you.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong

Do not give him "free reign" at ALL in your house. A dog attacking others hasn't earned "free reign".

When he's not leashed to you he's crated. 

Attacking others is self-rewarding to him and he's rewarding himself, Take that away from him.

As far as "submits to me when he's on his bed", what does that mean? What measures are you taking to make sure he "submits"? Are you using rolling techniques or some such?


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Sevastra said:


> He is currently in his 3rd bout of pano, i got his pills for him.


What pills, I think I've head that some of the meds they give you for pano can in some cases cause aggression as a side effect. 

Would his behaviour coincide with around the time frame of starting the pills?


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Implement these immediately, especially leashed to you.
> 
> Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong
> 
> ...



He currently does not have free- reign , he never has yet because of his behavior..as far as him submitting to me on his bed, he used to have an issue with anyone coming towards him on his bed, he no longer does with me...I don't roll him, he rolls over himself and licks my hand. I sit down with him on his bed and he lays his head on my lap.


The pano pills was Tremadol, which i stopped giving him, because i think it made him nutty and some other one i don't remember but it was for inflammation, it started with a "V". But he started this way right after he ate a bad batch of food and he got extremely ill at 4 months old, during that time he started this kind of display as in not wanting to be approached or growling at movement. 

i should add a few months ago i thought i was on my way to fixing all of this for about a month, he was fine, no attacking, no barking or growling...then suddenly out of no where he started again. I know to me its out of no where, probably some kind of trigger that I am no aware of.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Can you remember what changed during that month?

Also yes, I'd certainly do some bloodwork and see if there's a physical cause for the aggression. 
You should go ahead and implement the "Mind Games" techniques, as long as you don't feel he'll attack you at any point during them.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

If you can, move out. Since the dog is fine with you alone and the dog's issue is with your poor mother. If you can't, you may need to consider giving the dog up , to the trainer who wanted him. If you want to keep the dog and live at home, then have an outside kennel for the dog where he stays unless he can be with you inside the house in his crate or loose in your room with the door shut and you mother knows not to enter the room.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Here's another option. I would contact Hollow Creek Farm & Rescue Hollow Creek Farm Equine and Canine Rescue Inc Animal Rescue Dogs Horses Adoptions Sponsor Donations. They give training advice - the option is on their website. They really have experience with the "hard core" rescue dogs.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Can you remember what changed during that month?
> 
> Also yes, I'd certainly do some bloodwork and see if there's a physical cause for the aggression.
> You should go ahead and implement the "Mind Games" techniques, as long as you don't feel he'll attack you at any point during them.


During that month, and really since we got Kaiser, and before really...My mother has anxiety problems, she get panic attacks suffers from depression. But During when he was around 4 months old, she started to get a little worse...I'm in no way blaming my mother at all i don't want anyone to take that statement the wrong way. Truth is, My mother, father and I decided to get a puppy as a family together, my mother went with me to the breeders and visited with me almost every other day...She and I thought having another dog, after our dog of 15 years passed away would help her in certain ways. Clearly, that hasn't gone to well, and despite everything she still loves him, i love him. This whole thing is terribly heartbreaking.


My finances at this time, i can't move out..

thank you to everyone for your advice/links/suggestions, i'm going to look into it all.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

What about having your mom work with the dog more? Maybe others could chime in, because I'm not sure this is the best idea, but it's an idea.

What if she feeds the dog, walks the dog, trains the dog etc? Everything comes from her. Have her teach the dog to sit and wait for food, then she puts it down and gives the 'ok' to eat.

If you find a trainer to help you, I think it would be a good idea if your mom is involved.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I am not blaming your poor mother either, but from what you are saying with her panic attacks, your dog is picking up on that. He senses her fear and anxiety and that is what makes him afraid and so he reacts. It probably all started when she had those severe eposides when he was only 4 months old. If you want to keep him, I really think, even if it means it means getting a roommate, that you will need to move out. Or consider rehoming your dog. It has got to be extremely stressful for your dog to live under these circumstances. If you still want to try training, be upfront with the trainer and explain your home situation.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Wait- the pup got really sick from bad food at 4 months old... and then the changes started?? So it could be from poisoning from the food? 

I agree. For everyone's safety and mental health, I'd either move out or re-home the dog. Especially since you can't find a behaviorist/trainer to work with you. That just blows my mind. They're supposed to work with these types of dogs! I can't imagine the stress level in your home from all of this...


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

I have tried endlessly trying to re-home him, The new England GDS rescue wont take him, and i thought for sure they would, they refused him. I've called so many organizations but to now avail. People are closing doors in my face left and right. I actually called one trainer that works with aggressive dogs that is his specialty, for an in home evaluation he charges thousands, i just don't have that , and like he said there is no guarantee that anything would change. 

Yesterday and today he is being very loving to her. She has been feeding him now and she has been walking him, she plays with him on the floor, of course with me right there observing his body language etc. 

I thought maybe the bad food did something to him, but the fact he completely changed towards me and my father, but still views her as a lower member in the pack...

I'm just not sure anymore its the most stressful confusing situation. It blows my mind that no trainers are willing to talk to me, when everyone in the house with the dog is more than willing to try and save Kaiser.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Have you tried Tuft's yet? They will work with you. They are veterinary behaviorists.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Have you tried Tuft's yet? They will work with you. They are veterinary behaviorists.



I have looked into that and it is on my to do list, thank you again for that reference


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