# Can you really expect your dog a reliable recall when so many things are more interes



## gsdemack (Feb 19, 2013)

interesting....



But even through repetition, does your dog always have the option or does it get so engrained that he just does it without thinking....so many things are more exciting than treats....


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

As long as I'm loud enough my 7 month old always recalls


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes. And I rarely have any treats. They come when I call.


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## gsdemack (Feb 19, 2013)

Is that due to a certain fear factor ingrained into them that your the boss.....


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I've been able to call my dog off a deer, a skunk, and a a porcupine (on separate occasions, it wasn't a party  ). He comes because he'll know he'll be in trooooouble. Plus, I'm really fun and exciting when he comes away from something interesting.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LOL!!! 

That totally cracks me up. My dogs afraid of me. When you train them positively, there is no reason that they need to be afraid to get compliance. This is one of the worst misconception of training.


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## gsdemack (Feb 19, 2013)

LoveEcho said:


> I've been able to call my dog off a deer, a skunk, and a a porcupine (on separate occasions, it wasn't a party  ). He comes because he'll know he'll be in trooooouble. Plus, I'm really fun and exciting when he comes away from something interesting.


What kind of trouble does he know he'll get into and how can you make yourself more interesting than those things? Mine has a high prey drive.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

gsdemack said:


> What kind of trouble does he know he'll get into and how can you make yourself more interesting than those things? Mine has a high prey drive.


I was kidding on the trouble part. He comes because he gets good things when he does. I will never scold him when he comes back to me (if it takes him a while). If I call him in my "you had better listen to me RIGHT NOW voice" it's enough to cut through the prey-drive frenzy. He has a very high prey drive as well, so our obedience work regularly includes impulse control exercises and focus exercises. 

I pretty much throw a party when he comes to me, if it's a stressful situation like that- lots of jumping around and "GOOD BOY GOOD BOY GOOD BOY!!!" and since I usually have a ball in my coat pocket, squeaking and playtime. He doesn't always get that, EVERY time he comes back (when he gets let outside and stuff), but it's like a jackpot reward system.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I can recall Pongu off (almost) anything. I have recalled him out of dog fights and away from deer, bunnies, a groundhog, and miscellaneous other critters I couldn't see clearly.

I do not have the same degree of reliability with Crookytail. He gets better and then as soon as I start thinking we're done and I don't need to continually reinforce him in recall drills, his reliability starts slipping down again. Partly it's a breed difference (more independent Akita/pit mix vs. handler-oriented GSD mix), partly it's a personality difference (Pongu is super needy), and partly it's that my relationship with Pongu is much, much stronger than my relationship with Crookytail.

It isn't about fear, and it isn't really about treats, either. It's about relationship and practice. And, of course, about the dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I hope for it, I train for it, but to be honest I don't expect it because I think even the best trained dog can make a mistake, they are dogs. The training never stops.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I've recalled Hunter off rabbit, deer, geese, coyotes, racoons, recently a skunk... lots of different things both out and about and working at the Airport. I trust 100% in his recall, regardless of the distraction. He will come because I said so, and because he wants to. I'm proud of all the work I put in to make his recall excellent.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Yes, I can expect my dog to come when I tell him to. 100% of the time. He doesn't get treats for coming either. 

I trained my recall differently than with treats, and it's pretty well proofed. He listens always, and has been called off of chipmunks, squirrels, and other critters....and boy does he LOVE to critter.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

And also no he doesn't come to me cause he's scared. He comes because I have always taught him and showed him that good fun things come from him coming, whether its play time, or a huge praise party from me.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Wild Wolf said:


> I've recalled Hunter off rabbit, deer, geese, coyotes, racoons, recently a skunk... lots of different things both out and about and working at the Airport. I trust 100% in his recall, regardless of the distraction. He will come because I said so, and because he wants to. I'm proud of all the work I put in to make his recall excellent.


:thumbup:

This! Recall is an integral part of our training, even at four years old, and will continue to be.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Lisl's recall is excellent too. She likes to come when called for the same reason Berlin will come to Katie.

I recalled her from two blocks away while she was chasing a smaller dog back to his home. I can recall her from squirrels and cats and she will come then too.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

My dog has a very good recall. This is because we have a very good relationship built on mutual trust and respect. (And 2 & 1/2 years training). My point; it doesn't happen over night.


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

My dog is definitely not afraid of me. And I do not use treats. I did when initially training the command but I usually only reward new commands that I am training. They are just smart.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Common sense pretty much dictates that a dog who is fearful of their handler is not going to be very inclined to come to them when something interesting is going on. 

Proofing recall (and the type of reward you use) I think depends a lot on your dog-- some dogs are the "I just want to please you" type, where a lot of praise and fun is a great reward. Some dogs are the "what's in it for me?" type, and most fall somewhere in between. My dog is very much a "what's in it for me?" type... praise is great, fine, but he also really needs the possibility of a reward that's more interesting than the critter.


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

Recall, like all lessons I have taught, were with positive reinforcement in the early stages.

To tweak the response to perfection, I used an ecollar. Note: very few corrections were needed.

I have a dog I can take anywhere off the lead who minds 99.9% of the time.

I didn't want to exaggerate my control thus the 99.9%, but I can't think of the last time he disobeyed

me on anything. If the ecollar is on him, he is at 100% compliance. He is just that smart.

He wears the ecollar less than 1% of the time, just when a refresher course is needed. 

Dex wants to obey and please me 1st and foremost because we have a loving bond in place. 

At the same time he knows there are consequences for non compliance.

Dex comes each and every time he is called, under conditions in public places off the lead

few other dogs will ever experience. The only exception to this is when another dog goes after him.

I know from the one dog fight he was in I couldn't call him out.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You shouldn't try to recall them out of a fight anyway. You don't want your dog dropping his guard and getting bit in the ass or worse. If a fight breaks out you gotta go stop it.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I trained the recall with positive reinforcement... never discipline the dog when they get to you, no matter what. I think the "genetic obedience" in my dog works in my favour, though. 

Recall is one of the most important obedience commands to train, IMO.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't want to recall my dog out of a fight because I don't want to give my dog a command that I expect him not to be able to comply with. Yes, you have to break up a fight, and the best time to do so is before it starts. Before it starts, if that recall is good, you might be able to do that, but you really do not want to give the other dog the idea that your dog is running away from it. That which runs, must be chased. If your dog is off lead, then your area of environment that you need to be aware of and control is a lot larger, and you need to recall your dog to you before it becomes a question of any sort.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> I don't want to recall my dog out of a fight because I don't want to give my dog a command that I expect him not to be able to comply with.


Walking my male on lead around our neighbourhood a few months back, some guy had let his husky off leash in the yard and as soon as we walked around the corner the dog charged us and attacked my dog. I lifted the husky up in a strangle hold and yelled at my male to platz, and he did... nobody was holding his leash, and despite the aggressive husky thrashing in my arms he held his platz off lead just feet away.

If your dog knows his obedience and you've worked hard to make it as solid as possible, use it... I use it in high stress situations when and if they arise, because that is part of its purpose... that is my experience, anyway.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wild Wolf said:


> Walking my male on lead around our neighbourhood a few months back, some guy had let his husky off leash in the yard and as soon as we walked around the corner the dog charged us and attacked my dog. I lifted the husky up in a strangle hold and yelled at my male to platz, and he did... nobody was holding his leash, and despite the aggressive husky thrashing in my arms he held his platz off lead just feet away.
> 
> If your dog knows his obedience and you've worked hard to make it as solid as possible, use it... I use it in high stress situations when and if they arise, because that is part of its purpose... that is my experience, anyway.


It is a lot easier to stop a fight before the dogs are engaged, been there done that. I have been able to separate bitches, bitches with blood on both of them and tell the one to DOWN! while I got the other out of there. So similar to your situation, and even after I had two young adult bitches fighting for keeps. 

I have no problems with recall, but I don't use that to stop bitches who are in the process of biting and being bitten. 

I do not recall a bitch away from suckling her whelps either. It is an inconsiderate demand in some circumstances.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> It is a lot easier to stop a fight before the dogs are engaged, been there done that. I have been able to separate bitches, bitches with blood on both of them and tell the one to DOWN! while I got the other out of there. So similar to your situation, and even after I had two young adult bitches fighting for keeps.
> 
> I have no problems with recall, but I don't use that to stop bitches who are in the process of biting and being bitten.
> 
> I do not recall a bitch away from suckling her whelps either. It is an inconsiderate demand in some circumstances.


Oh, yes.. sorry, I got a bit mixed up. Nothing really breaks up two animal engaged in battle.. I do issue ob commands once I can disengage one of the dogs. Even still, while I worked in dog boarding it was disastrous to try separating two unfamiliar dogs from fighting, and often other dogs will get involved in they are present. If the dogs don't know ob, it's so difficult.

My own dog, though, I can safely say I trust him to follow his issued commands once I can disengage the aggressor. 

I avoid confrontation at all costs... dealt with enough dog fights to last me three life times... it is horrible, and you really start to appreciate the strength of these animals when they fight.

Agree.. no point even attempting to issue a recall command mid-fight. They can't hear you.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes, they can't hear you. 

One day Rushie and Dubya got into it outside, and I managed to pull Dubya off and into a kennel when I heard WWIII start in the house. Ick! 

There I was IN the kennel with Dubya who still wanted to EAT Rushie, who was just on the other side of the gate just as happy to EAT Dubya, and the real danger, the bitches are in the house fighting. 

I squeezed myself out of the kennel keeping both boys apart, and Rush turned and sped into the doggy door to join the fray inside. I got in there and there were three mostly grown puppy bitches, two young adult bitches, and my older girl all going at it, and Rushie. 

I don't even think in such circumstances, I just do. I quickly grabbed Rush and each of the puppies who were not really intent on the fight. And next Babs who was about 2 at the time, and crated her. I had a bunch of crates in the sun room, and I just went about filling them up, until it was just Arwen and Jenna, my two dominant bitches going at it for real. I grabbed one of them by the leg, and pulled her into the house bleeding until I could get the metal baby gate between them. I got them separated. Blood pressure soaring, adrenalin flowing. 

It was then, that I decided that there really wasn't any good reason that 8 dogs needed to run around together in a huge disorganized pack. They were all pretty much trained and in classes. That year I titled six of those dogs. 

Dog fights are grusome, horrible things, and I avoid them like the plague.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> But even through repetition, does your dog always have the option or does it get so engrained that he just does it without thinking....so many things are more exciting than treats....


I would exlude here any exhibition of agressive behaviour as an urge to protect, only that ones which is to attack. Though, sometimes it could be difficult to understand which was to attack and which one to protect, because the best defence is attacking the enemy. When our dogs are young puppies, and later on when they are 7-10 months old, they play and instinctively polish these maneuveres mainly of the predatory nature. When they are two years old - their play becomes a serious business once they met true agression from the dog they had attacked not very seriously. Thus will do every male. He could be scared of stronger predators of his kind and feel a prey himself, hoping to get better by practicing in attacks of smaller males, or, he could feel a hero, ignoring the small and the cats, and attack only those he consideres they match his statue.
If you trained recall when your dog was a puppy playing with other puppies - he would be still reluctant to leave his engaging game at its hottest when he is 10 months, would turn to you immediately when he is 1 and half years old at any moment, and would come close to you to look into your eyes in anticipation of your command.
If it didn't happen, the best thing you can do is to go back to square one - recall him at the moment when he is most engaged in some play with other dogs. Muzzle him, don't be ashamed of his attacks and train recall in live situations ( just avoid small dogs, being muzzled he will learn to use his claws faster than you may imagine). Muzzle is a good protection for his face as well as a collar studded with spikes.
One exercise with a ball may help - ask him to stop in a mid way to still running ball and stay a minute or so, and continue to chase it by your command.
Keeping him in a sitting position would calm you dog down when other dog approaches and you see him exited in a certain manner, talk to him in a quiet firm and really low voice with your back to the enemy, any high pitched tunes definitely will worsen the situation.
Some dogs are more difficult to train reacall in such situations only because there is nothing else exiting in their lives: nobody take them to the club to exercise their predatory impulses in combat with a decoy, nobody made them ball mad, they are not exhausted running beside a horse, so, they get use to be intoxicated with their own adrenaline rush, dogs could be adrenaline junkies too, do you know that?


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

Wild Wolf said:


> as we walked around the corner the dog charged us and attacked my dog. I lifted the husky up in a strangle hold


 what happened after you got your dog to platz? Did the owner show up? How did the situation resolve?


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Vagus said:


> what happened after you got your dog to platz? Did the owner show up? How did the situation resolve?


The owner was out on the lawn, he stood there and made ME break the two males up. The husky didn't even have a collar so I had to bear wrestle the thing. He grabbed my dog's leash, who was holding his platz after one command. 

It was kind of funny, because even though Hunter went immediately into a slow platz, he still was wearing a dominant aggressive expression on his face and snarling - slowly laying down... haha.

I told the guy to drop my male's leash, and he was hesitating, and I had to impolitely inform him that my dog would not break his platz. The guy tried to walk his dog away by the tail, while it continued to try to break away to attack my dog again.

I put Hunter behind me in a platz and stood in a battle ready stand until the dog was inside...

edit: I turned the corner and called humane society/by-law right after and filed a phone report.

Good thing I have a background in martial arts and rugby... controlling a dog physically when it wants to kill another dog (not to mention it tried to bite me in the face) is miserable..

Now... I carry a thick bamboo cane everywhere I go. Next dog who succumbs to his owner's foolishness and lack of control will unfortunately get to know my cane personally. I'm done being attacked... it's me or them. Unfortunately...


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

That's horrible! Congrats to you for being able to protect your dog. I'm starting to think it's time I start walking with something too, as I've had some near horrible experiences that have left me quite anxious. Mace/pepper spray/tazors etc. are all illegal where I live, so a solid stick may just have to do. I've heard of people just keeping little travel size deodorant sprays on them too. I'm seriously impressed that you were physically able to step in though! Great going


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Vagus said:


> That's horrible! Congrats to you for being able to protect your dog. I'm starting to think it's time I start walking with something too, as I've had some near horrible experiences that have left me quite anxious. Mace/pepper spray/tazors etc. are all illegal where I live, so a solid stick may just have to do. I've heard of people just keeping little travel size deodorant sprays on them too. I'm seriously impressed that you were physically able to step in though! Great going


I'm lucky because I'm moving real soon out of this neighbourhood - but we do enough training, hiking, working, and running that I don't really need to take him for a walk around the neighbourhood much... when I do, something usually goes wrong. Haha. I will not leave without my stick anymore!


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

positive training is fine and dandy but its really more about proofing. for me personally i train with positive methods and make my dog think im the most fun thing in the world BUT if he doesnt come there is consequences. i mean if i needed a rock solid recall like a military bomb sniffing dog i wouldnt want to count on me being more fun than every single thing the dog runs into. whether the dog is excited, scared, nervous, eager, etc come should mean come. and come means come immediately or its spanking time!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

boomer11 said:


> positive training is fine and dandy but its really more about proofing. for me personally i train with positive methods and make my dog think im the most fun thing in the world BUT if he doesnt come there is consequences. i mean if i needed a rock solid recall like a military bomb sniffing dog i wouldnt want to count on me being more fun than every single thing the dog runs into. whether the dog is excited, scared, nervous, eager, etc come should mean come. and come means come immediately or its spanking time!!


Well, I guess different dogs are different. Mine come immedieately, every time, whether I am standing near a crate or kennel to put them in, or getting ready to take them somewhere, or if there is another dog or rabbit or squirrel or deer, or whatever. And it has never been spanking time. Spanks and COME don't go together. When my dog is loose in a busy parking lot, I do not want them to associate COME with a spanking. Nope. I want them to associate Come, with GottogettoSuzieNow! And it works. Well it works for me. Maybe it is genetic obedience. Too bad that doesn't kick in for heeling though.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Sure you can expect a reliable recall and train for it... BUT we're talking about living breathing creatures that sometimes have their own agenda, impulses and can easily get caught up in the moment and choose not to listen!


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## GSDluver4lyfe (Nov 15, 2006)

My dog has very high prey drive as well and I'm quite aware of the fact that capping his drives is extremely difficult for him so I watch him and our surroundings intently. The second I see his drive escalating I call him back or give him a reminder or distraction (like scrapping my foot on the ground or jingling his collar in my hands, to get his focus off whatever it is and that usually works). With that being said Ive called him off squirrels beavers posums dogs etc with no problem but I do have to use my stern voice to break through his focus but I do remember that he is an animal and nothing is ever 100%. I do the best with what I have and remain vigilant and watchful of my dog and his behavior. And I am quite satisfied with his dependability off leash.


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