# What's the best collar to use for a "puller"?



## JenniferH

Sorry if this has been asked before. Me and the search engine dont get along so well...

Tanis is not quite 8 months old. Strong as an ox. Larger than Bella and weighs 60 or so pounds. I am currently using just a flat collar and leash. I prefer to walk the dogs together but now that he is getting bigger I cant do it. Last week I decided to go for a long walk and my entire body hurt for 3 days. Tried again last night to take them both and I had to turn around and come back home. Later I went back out with DH walking Bella and me with Tanis. Tanis still was very hard to handle. I am going to try again tonight just him and I with no other members of the family and see if I can work on his heel and calm walking. 

We are supposed to be going to a tracking seminar at the end of the month and I know I'm going to look like the biggest loser who cant even hold on to her dog. Please help. I am inviting collar suggestions as well as any tips for training a calm walk. Thanks.


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## middleofnowhere

Flat collar and pull = stop. Only move when you get slack. And for now, one dog at a time. At least that's the technique that works for me.


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## Jax08

clicker and bacon bits worked for me.


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## MayzieGSD

I like the EasyWalk harness: http://www.premier.com/View.aspx?page=dogs/products/collars/easywalk/description

It's not a substitution for training and middleofnowhere's suggestion is spot on for training how to walk nicely on a leash. But the Easywalk should at least give you some control until your dog learns to not pull.


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## Liesje

I have owned and used prong collars, easy walk harness, gentle leader head halter, e-collar, etc and to be honest the most effective thing I've used on my strongest puller has been attaching a long (6'-8') lead to the regular collar, then basically looping it around his groin area, almost like you're tying a knot around the dog. I don't even have to correct the dog like this. The sensation must be something that they hate because he dare not pull. Someone told me that he's seen cowboys flip bulls in a similar fashion. Other people told me they've used this as a make-shift harness for controlling a stray or shelter animal with no or unknown leash training. I learned it when we entered a dock diving event. The dogs can only wear a simple flat collar and many of them get really amped up and are hard to control. This is how the competitors walked their dogs out to the platform. It's kinda hard to explain, I can take a pick later if you want.


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## Jax08

Please do Lies!! 

I looped the leash around the chest of a temp foster who is hugh to make a temp harness. He never once pulled while the leash was like that.


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## Sarah'sSita

I think the issue is rarely the collar or equipment. It is the consistency of the training. I like the be like a tree and stop.
whenever the the lead is loose the walk continues. Once tension occurs when dog hit the end of the leash it stops. I don't say anything initiaally and through repetition the dog learns: There is absolutely nothing in this for me when a pull on leash. Clear rules for the dog. This method continues to work with me no matter hat collar I have on. I only add a pinch collar or GL ONCE these rules are learned (on a puppy) and if needed. This method also means many short, slow walks only for the purpose of teaching my dog how to walk. Make the rules crystal clear for the dog and BE consistent.
I have seen the around the body loop work quite well too - I have just never tried on my dogs.


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## SunCzarina

Well, Bella is a GIRL and if she's anywhat like my dogess, she wants to please and responds to ett ett don't chase that.

Tanis is a boy, in his teenage stage so more drastic measures need to be taken! Does he have a prong collar? Otto does, when he's excited, he'll pull right through it. I've been a post. I've turned and gone the other direction. I've popped that prong so hard he cries. He pulls. I may be trying Lies' leash across the groin idea

YES pictures would be nice!


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## Liesje

K, I'll demonstrate later tonight. Hey I'm even getting pretty handy with my camera's video function!


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## BowWowMeow

It doesn't have anything to do with the sex of the dog. My two worst pullers were female (Massie and Chama). Rafi wants nothing more than to please and is perfect on a leash. 

While I am training my dogs to walk nicely on a leash I like to use the Sense-ation harness. http://www.softouchconcepts.com/products/sense_ation_harness.php

Once I've got them trained I just use a flat collar.


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## littledmc17

I used a prong on B 
Now all I have to say is no no and he slows down


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## angierose

We used the Easy Walk harness for several months and have now transitioned to a martingale collar. I like the martingale because she can't slip out easily, which she's done with a flat collar before when excited. Luckily we were in the yard, but I dread the idea of her freeing herself on the sidewalk of our busy road. Also, she does still pull sometimes if another dog is making a fuss at her, and the neck pressure of the martingale is less uncomfortable than a flat collar.


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## Jason L

I've never heard of that way to stop pulling, Lies. Very cool.


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## Doggydog

I am a huge fan of the sense-ation harness. It changed my life. No more worry about dogs pulling if they see another dog or we get near to the park.


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## JenniferH

Thanks everyone! I'm going to go look at the collars mentioned and I would LOVE to see this technique Lies! 

I am sure that in my own time and with working on this we could get it under control but I must admit this seminar has me terrified. I was told to just bring him as he is and we'll work on all of this as a package deal. Here's to hoping I'm not the only dork there!

He's just at that age where everything is soooo cool and he needs to see it all and visit everyone and he's pretty much a crazy puppy dog. I would see someone like me walking a dog like him and say "that poor girl. she needs to get that dog under control!". Now, I'm that poor girl walking that huge crazy dog...

Different dogs, different lines. Bella was such a breeze compared to him.


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## GunnersMom

I'll echo exactly what MayzieGSD said -- the EasyWalk harness has been a godsend for me, with Gunner! 
It's definitely not a long-term substitute for training. They'll still try to pull, but they're not goin' anywhere -- you have total control.

The only complaint I have with the EasyWalk is that it can loosen up a little bit, after we've been walking for a while. Luckily, thanks to someone here (I'm sorry, I don't remember who it was or I'd give credit) had warned me about that, so I was prepared with an extra safety measure already in place. 
As suggested, I hook the leash to both the harness AND a loose-fitting Martingale. Works like a charm. The harness has never loosened up enough for him to actually step out of it, but should that ever happen, I have the peace of mind knowing that he's still connected by the Martingale while I get the harness back on!


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## StGeorgeK9

I'm excited to see your method Lies! I'm one of the ones that would love to wean Ava off her prong....but am having difficulties. She has a perfect (IMO of course) heel off lead, but put on a flat collar and her brains fall out or something. I'm sure I did something wrong along the way, but I'm still trying to figure that one out. Maybe she is just smarter than me, which is likely.... sigh...


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## BuoyantDog

Please post pics, Lies!!


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## FuryanGoddess

I got Zeva The Sporn Halter. It worked instantly, just like they said it would. I love it. I might have to get a bigger one when she gets full grown. http://www.sporn.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SPUS100


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## Liesje

LOL guys, I'll put every tool I have on Nikon and video tape the results, you all can judge which is the "best" one. I've got a prong, e-collar, Gentle Leader, and my own "weenie walker" method, I sold the Easy Walk harness but that worked the absolute least of everything. I know for him the prong does not work as a "self-correcting" device. You'd have to pop him until he screams which is not really how I like to use it. For me its purpose is for specialized training to be used temporarily (like right now he is learning the boundaries of his bark and hold in SchH and is wearing a prong on the dead ring).


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## JenniferH

Lies, does Nikon still pull you on a regular walk? For some reason I was thinking that with all the training he has had with SchH that he would not be a puller on the leash.


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## Liesje

Hecks yes, lol. SchH is not the same as regular pet training and manners. He knows "fuss" for SchH but it would be unfair to expect him to have and maintain the same drive level going for a long walk. I'm pretty relaxed as far as how my dogs walk on walks and rarely walk them anyway so it's not really a priority for me that they heel on a walk. Walks are not sufficient exercise for any of them so if we are walking it's usually getting from our house to the park to train, or from the car to a training field or field for playing. DH jogs all three dogs and doesn't have a problem but they intentionally run out ahead of him so they don't trip each other.


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## onyx'girl

We've used the technique Lies describes on shelter dogs. Better than a choke collar, and the rescue cannot afford to buy anything other than chokes and a few prongs. It does work, but still isn't actually training them, you just have more control. I guess if the shelter dogs had more consisitancy in the handling, they would be trained easier.


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## Liesje

OK, here's the little experiment. I took out the ball, which Nikon is obsessed with and will bark, lunge, and claw at the ground for, similar to how some dogs might react to another dog or a prey animal while on a walk. Using each collar/tool, I alert him to the ball and see if he pulls/lunges into the collar. The flat collar (well Fursaver on the dead ring) - no chance! The prong collar on the live ring - he still lunges but does back off and sticks to barking without pulling into the collar as hard. The "weenie walker" - hmmmmm, there you have it, lol! I did not use the Gentle Leader because I'm not comfortable with a dog pulling hard/lunging with a head halter. Oh, and before the "weenie walker" demo it shows how I put it on (hopefully you can see OK, I tried to make it obvious).

http://www.vimeo.com/8828162

Yeah it was a little mean, teasing him up like that but afterward we had a barking, tugging, ball fetching party and now he's passed out.


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## selzer

I find that disturbing.


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## StGeorgeK9

3 cheers for the "weenie walker"!!!


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## G-burg

> Quote:to be honest the most effective thing I've used on my strongest puller has been attaching a long (6'-8') lead to the regular collar, then basically looping it around his groin area, almost like you're tying a knot around the dog.


Lies~

I had someone show me this method for tracking.. To stop the dog from pulling.. I must say it works well!


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## Liesje

I've heard of using it there myself. I was about two tracks shy of trying it but finally figured out how to slow my dog down! I do use it to walk him out to the track otherwise he tracks all the way to his track and is exhausted.


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## Jax08

Thanks Lies!!! Was that an 8' leash you were using?


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## Liesje

I think so, 8-10 (I had a 30' that I cut up). It's a little thin (don't want it to really pinch the dog) but I don't have any long ones in the house that are 1".


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## Jax08

Do you think a 6' leash would work on a big dog? I ask because the last male I temp tested at a shelter was over 100lb and wonder if I should pick an 8' up. MAGSR calls him the Shetland pony/dog!


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## onyx'girl

I would go w/ an 8 if you can...I wish I had one the other day when I picked up Hartford boy, he was a tied out dog, so his neck was extremely strong, all I could do to keep him from pulling me down on the ice. I wished I had a longer lead so I could use the weenie walker on him!


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## Liesje

Yeah I'd err on the side of longer. I can do this with a 6' with Nikon, but he's a smaller male, and is trained to walk at my side when commanded.


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## SunCzarina

> Originally Posted By: Betsybut put on a flat collar and her brains fall out or something.










I feel that way about Otto who can walk wonderfully slack leashed, sit at every corner when it's just me and him. Add my children to the mix well it's getting better but no where near where I want him!


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## JenniferH

Thank you for doing that! I need a new leash anyway for the tracking training so maybe I will buy a longer one and I can remember this on days when I have no control or am in a situation where I need calm but cant get it from him. I dont expect much on a walk. I dont mind walking ahead and sniffing, etc. But I dont want to be pulled down the street! 

I have tried the stop method and I think it could work with him with lots of patience. I can easily see how it would take an hour to get around the block. When I have my treat bag he'll pay attention and do what I ask but only to get his treat and then he's back on the move. Its a work in progress...

I'm afraid to do too much with this training in some ways because I dont know what to expect for the tracking and I dont want to "mess him up" for it. He's pretty much a blank slate. He knows sit and down and his recall is about 50/50. You know, the basic stuff. Is pulling a no-no for tracking?


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## Ruthie

Lies,

Is this a use it until they learn kinda thing, or do you always have the leash like that while walking?


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## Liesje

Like I said earlier, I don't really "walk" my dogs. There is way too much ice buildup here for it to be safe this time of year and it is not sufficient exercise anyway. We spend most of our time playing fetch or training. I leash him like this from the vehicle out to the track because it slows him up and prevents him from tracking to the track (which the TD says is no-no). DH runs with him but not with the weenie walker, but that's running and the dog needs to be out front to avoid tripping and he doesn't pull.

The people who taught me this use it on their dogs to move them from the vehicle to the diving platform. The dogs are so amped up that any obedience goes out the window and they want the dog psyched.


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## Jax08

Thanks! The shelters usually bring the dogs out on choke collars and I've had a couple that would just take right off.







That seems a good way to keep a big male under control if they are ok with being touched all over. Obviously have to eval to see if it would send them over the edge before attempting that.


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## Liesje

Since the leash is still attached to a collar, you could still use the choke collar as backup. We had to use those too, only way to ensure the dog could not slip (many dogs had slipped the collars they were turned in with), but dang did they pull!!


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## StGeorgeK9

*Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Okay, I dont have a video cam to show anybody, but we tried Lies method. 
Yesterday on our walk I put her flat collar on her attached a regular leash and used a long leash fashioned into the "weenie walker" also attached to the collar. When Ava would tug on the regular leash, I used the weenie walker leash to get her back into a slack leash position. It worked really well, I mean actually awesome in the neighborhood. So today, I decided to try a little more distraction and we did a walk on the beach (way more fun and distracting). The "weenie walker"/regular collar method was another huge success! She is now after two sessions, recognizing her flat collar attached to the leash as her limit and not pulling against it!!! Yay Ava!!! I will continue to work with her on it, but it is very encouraging after trying so hard with other ways to get her transitioned from the prong to a flat collar!!!

Thanks Lies for the tips and the demo!!!


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## Liesje

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Yay! Good to know it works on girls too!! I think it works well for transitioning, because the leash can be attached to the flat collar, so the dog is no longer wearing a prong or any other device, put the pressure comes in the rear, so there is never pressure/correcting on the dog's neck, kinda helps transition a dog who gets "collar wise" to a prong or something else and gives them more freedom with their head and front end.


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## BuoyantDog

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Cool! I also tried it on Glory, informally, and it worked well. I will do what you did, Betsy, to transition Glory from prong to flat collar. Thanx!


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## StGeorgeK9

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

The only trick was operating two leashes independently of each other, a bit like walking and chewing gum at the same time, a challenge for some of us, LOL. But I am super pleased with the progress we have made! And yes Lies.....works perfect on girls too! LOL


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## Liesje

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

I just use one, the leash attached to the collar is also tied around the loin. But I'd probably use another for backup for starters, just to be sure.


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## StGeorgeK9

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

I'm really trying to get down to just a flat collar, my thinking with using both in this way was she would feel the tug FIRST on the collar then followed a split second later with the tug on the groin if she didnt self correct. She has always been very collar wise (maybe that's my fault, okay, pretty sure it is LOL) and so if I have two collars on, she knows the difference. soon as the one comes off it's back to spaz city (okay slight exaggeration) on a flat collar. I'm really hoping this works. Do you think she will become "weenie walker" wise? I will keep you posted....


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## BuoyantDog

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

She might, the ol' wise one....


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## DianaM

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Hey if it works, it works.... but Lies, if you start developing Weenie Collars, I'm gonna wonder.


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## Liesje

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

LOL that's taking it a little too far!


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## thelaw

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*



> Originally Posted By: LiesjeI just use one, the leash attached to the collar is also tied around the loin. But I'd probably use another for backup for starters, just to be sure.


Liesje,

First, Thank You for the information. I am a first time GSD owner and I have been researching different training methods and options. Pulling is one of the issues I want to work on right away and this sounds like a great option. I plan on going out to purchase a long leash tomorrow. 

When wrapping around the groin area, are you wrapping the groin, or just in front of it? Thank you.


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## StGeorgeK9

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Hey TheLaw, there is a video posted on the first page that Lies did to demonstrate it.


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## thelaw

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Yes Ma'am. I watched the video and was amazed at the results. I showed my wife and we decided to try this method. When watching the video, it appears that the leash goes over the groin but then when she shows how the leash is looped over the back, it looks like the leash (under the belly) slid just in front of the groin. 
Give the name, I am assuming it goes on the groin but I wanted to make sure.


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## Liesje

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

I think mine ususally sits just in front of the groin area, but behind the ribs. My dog is quite lean and has quite a "tuck" so it sits there naturally. However I've seen people do this farther up on the chest like a regular harness. I don't think it really matters as long as it works (but also that it is not too tight and actually pinching the dog and causing pain). My dog seems to be sensitive to touch in this area, not really the groin/penis itself but his sides just past his ribs, the insides of his thighs, etc. I think the "weenie walker" works not because it's actually causing pain (like a stern prong correction will), but it's more of a startle, like "whoa what are you doing there?". It breaks the dog's focus (or lack thereof) so that he can pause what he's doing or fixated on and focus on you instead. For us the other tools like the Easy Walk and Gentle Leader don't work this way because the dog is just fighting against it or totally distracted by the discomfort.


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## Liesje

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

PS if you want I can make a video with just that and use a colored leash. In hindsight it was kinda dumb to use a thin black leash!


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## thelaw

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

I'm good! Thank you for the quick reply. I've got a long way to go and I'm not sure where to start but this is great information. I look forward to reading more about your ideas and suggestions as well as the many other members of this forum. Have a great weekend.


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## StGeorgeK9

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Well, I for one always love to see you work with your dogs.....any excuse is good for me LOL, Nikon is a hunk


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## ladyluck

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

Liesje, thanks so much for posting the video, I would really like to see one with the colored leash? I think I tied the leash the way you did but...... worked great to taking the dog from the house to his 40 foot tie out. He usually does great unless a rabbitt or squirrel runs around the side of the house. we are working on that but sure is nice to be able to have control without getting pulled off the steps! HA
ps 
liked your clicker and herding tests videos too!!!


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## ladyluck

*Re: Tried the Weenie Walker Method!*

yep the weenie walker is a hit. My mom who weighs 110lbs soaking wet 65 years young can now walk our 100lb gsd male to his tie out with him in a perfect heel, even if the rabbit squirrel come to tease. the leash placed like you said works GREAT! If he starts to pull he immediatley stops!! so much safer! the prong did no good when prey drive kicks in. Gsd normally is really careful and doesnt pull when Mom takes him out but he forgets when the rabbitt shows up. thanks again and still would love to see the colored leash video when you get a chance! 
PS also is alot safer when I take him out!! he can really pull and he almost out wieghs me too!


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## SATPAT

Liesje said:


> OK, here's the little experiment. I took out the ball, which Nikon is obsessed with and will bark, lunge, and claw at the ground for, similar to how some dogs might react to another dog or a prey animal while on a walk. Using each collar/tool, I alert him to the ball and see if he pulls/lunges into the collar. The flat collar (well Fursaver on the dead ring) - no chance! The prong collar on the live ring - he still lunges but does back off and sticks to barking without pulling into the collar as hard. The "weenie walker" - hmmmmm, there you have it, lol! I did not use the Gentle Leader because I'm not comfortable with a dog pulling hard/lunging with a head halter. Oh, and before the "weenie walker" demo it shows how I put it on (hopefully you can see OK, I tried to make it obvious).
> 
> http://www.vimeo.com/8828162
> 
> Yeah it was a little mean, teasing him up like that but afterward we had a barking, tugging, ball fetching party and now he's passed out.


Hi Lies,
I'm unable to see this video. I know it's probably an old one, but I wanted to see what you did & try it on my 8 month old puller Rex. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Satish


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## erintaylor1995

I also use the easy walk harness and it's great. 


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## maxdog630

I too would like to see how to tie the leash (video).


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## ayoitzrimz

I *think* this is what Lies is talking about (please correct me when you see this thread):

The Leash Trick


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## maxdog630

ayoitzrimz said:


> I *think* this is what Lies is talking about (please correct me when you see this thread):
> 
> The Leash Trick


Wow! thank you, seems so simple....  that and sitting on the ground to stop her pulling should help me.


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## SamLVX

I don't mean to resurrect a post, but does anyone know if there is a working link to the video Lies put up about his 'weenie walker' method?


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