# Should I spay my dog because it isn't pure?



## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

It's not good for breeding so should I just spay her?


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

If you spay her wait until she's a year old. They need to fully develop.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes. You should, because you are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of owning an intact bitch. You are unwilling to see the precious thing that you have, and are melting down like a snowflake in May, just because people think you and she are not ready to consider breeding.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

To the OP, I don't mean to be rude, but may we ask how old you are, and where you are from? Some of your postings seem...not very valid.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I see people romanticize about having a litter of puppies. It is easy to have fantasies about how much fun it would be and how cute the babies are and how you might even make a couple of dollars. Instead, if your gal is full grown, go ahead and spay her, or do an Ovary Sparing Spay if you want her to keep her hormones (there are some studies suggesting better health, but they are not conclusive). The last thing you want is an OOPS litter. Ooops litters can be fine dogs, but it is a gamble. And then you'd be responsible for finding good homes and then taking the pups back if there is a problem in that home, and then you'd have to rehome the pup. Lots of work.


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## MayzieGSD (Aug 28, 2006)

Yes


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

If you DO spay, you should wait until your dog is at least a year old. However, she may have a heat period before 1 year. A female can come in season as early as 7 months old. 

When she is in season, you need to be EXTREMELY careful to keep her from being bred. Male dogs will do ANYTHING to get to a female in heat! They will dig under fences, destroy their crates, and even chew/claw their way through doors. I've even heard of litters being conceived through a chain link fence!

So, do NOT let her outside unsupervised when she's in season. Even experienced breeders get caught now and then - have a friend who's husband turned his back to get a cup of coffee while he was feeding their two dogs, and OOOPS!! One of my dogs was conceived when her mother managed to open her kennel, and climb an 8 foot fence to get herself in with the stud. Fortunately, it was a mating the breeder was planning to make, just NOT on that heat cycle!!

She will be receptive to mating (and getting pregnant) from about day 10 on. (Average is about day 12.) That's about the time her discharge will change from blood-red to pinkish. The fertile period lasts about 5 days, though I've heard of litters being conceived as late as day 18.

No two dogs are the same. The average heat period is 21 days, but last time my bitch was in season, she bled for a full 30 days! I was starting to think something must be wrong, when the bleeding FINALLY stopped!

I know you are also thinking of breeding her, so here's some things to seriously think about:

A German shepherd can have litters as large as 10 to 13 puppies. Are you prepared to help mom raise that many pups until they are ready to go to their new homes at 8 weeks? Can you find homes - GOOD homes! - for that many pups? Do you know what to do for a pup that's sick, or too weak to nurse? How to get a pup to take that all-important first breath, if it doesn't start breathing right away?

Have you considered the cost of raising the puppies? They will need to be wormed and have their first shots before being adopted. Also, if mom has a difficult birth, and needs the help of a vet, maybe even a C-section, have you got the money to pay for that?

These are just a few of the things a breeder has to be prepared for. It's not a job for the faint-of-heart!

i know some people on this board are being tough on you. That's because we care very, very much about dogs, and want to make sure anyone who breeds, breeds pups that are going to go to good homes, and not wind up in shelters, or be euthanized. 

We've all been where you are at one time - crazy in love with our first German shepherd, and thinking what a wonderful dog he/she is. Then, as we learn more and more about the breed, we find out, well, maybe our dog wasn't all that great (but we still love it to pieces, and will never forget it...) I've had German shepherds since the 1980's and have yet to breed a litter, because I realized either the time just wasn't right (money, other demands on my time and rules about how many dogs I was allowed on my property) or the dog I picked wasn't as good as I'd hoped. The one with the 5-star pedigree had a dysplastic hip, and the next one had a crappy, fearful temperament, etc. etc.

(The experience I have with breeding comes from working for a breeder, and helping to whelp and raise multiple litters.)

So, please, just relax, enjoy your dog, and do your best to learn all you can. The people on this board DO want to help, but you've got to be willing to listen, and not get defensive.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Winnal with all sincerity please stop and take a breath. Is your dog pure or not who knows. IMO it isn't but not just because of the coloring. It is the way the markings come through in the coloring. Look at pictures of shepherd husky mixes and you will see why many here think your dog is a mix. Coloring, markings, body shape (conformation) are complex. Is it possible your dog is a pure with diluted color...sure. It is possible your dog is a mix...sure. Would I considered your dog good for breeding...no because pure or not your dog doesn't meet the breed standard define be the originator of the breed on coloring alone. She is to young to determine temperament and workability.

Now about spaying. YUP you should spay her when she is old enough. Opinions very greatly on this. Shelters, rescue groups etc. IMO spay way to soon. Why? So said dogs don't perpetuate they unwanted litters by careless owners that keep our shelters full year round. I say careless... not bad owners because not everyone (most actually) understand the heat cycle of a female dog. I myself when I was young and uneducated had to have my dogs (non gsd) emergency spayed after a mating with her own litter mate because I "thought" her heat was over when she stopped bleeding. Was I a bad person and a bad pet owner for being ignorant and uneducated...NO. I didn't want a litter of puppies. My dog was just 7 months old and way to young to have a litter. So we had our dog spayed the same week the oops happened. That was the responsible thing to do. 
Years have passed and other dogs have come into our lives. I've educated myself. Had serious talks with my vet. Asked here on the forum about when to spay. I decided for health reasons I wanted to wait to spay my current female later to give her time to grow normally and mature. I watched like a hawk for signs of heat until she was spayed. There are health risks to spaying too soon and also associated with not spaying at all. So some research. Yes I have a pure breed GSD and she was spayed at 19 months. I did this for many reasons. She wasn't breeding material and even if she was I still would have spayed. Why...I have no desire to be a breeder. I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge to become one nor the time and money to do so. And importantly. MANAGING AN INTACT FEMALE IN HEAT FROM BECOMING PREGNANT CAN BE A VERY DIFFICULT TASK. Making through one or two heats is certainly doable. But consider this. The average dog has 2 heat cycles a year. Average life span of 11-13 years. That's up to as many as 26 heat cycle in the life of your dog. Meaning that for a least 2 months a year you are going to have to keep your dog from mating with wondering males. And trust me they will find a bitch in heat. If you can't manage keeping your dog from being mated by unwanted suitors then you should spay her. Do you know that a bitch can whelp a litter sired by more than one dog at the same time. The world doesn't need anymore mixed breed puppies that are hard to find good homes for. Homes you would have to find. Whelping a litter is a risk to your female. Vet expenses are high whelping a litter. Do you want to or can you afford those expenses and risks for possible mixed breed pups that could be hard to home.

Finally...please just love that beautiful dog in front of you. She looks lovely and whether she is breed worthy or not she is yours. You picked her. You chose to make a commitment to having a dog ...your dog. She has so much more to offer you than just a coloring and future puppies. Train her, have fun with her, love her and be happy with her and she will give you so much more in return. But yeah...spay her and let her be part of your learning experience. Maybe some day you will be a responsible breeder. Who knows but I personally don't think it should be with this dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

To spay are not ... should be about what you chose, to be in the best interest of your dog. If you are a responsible owners ... and keep your intact dog from having puppies?? Then that is what you could also do. 

As others have also said ... you need to take a breath and chill and enjoy your puppy. I'm surprised ... I don't see you on board the ... my puppy bites/whines in the crate/pees in the house or barks all the time express??? It's a pretty big train. Yours must be a pretty chill puppy?? Relax and enjoy your puppy.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Here are my thoughts on spaying, and OP please hear me on this with an open mind.

Spaying should have nothing to do with whether the dog is pure or impure. It should have to do with health of the dog and your intentions for the dog.

I spayed my pure working line female when she was 2 years old because I had no intention of breeding her. She comes from very nice lines and in my limited understanding of what makes a good female, I think she's got potential. That said, I also understand that I am way too uneducated on breeding and that I don't have the resources nor time to breed. I also respect and admire the GSD breed and the responsible breeders who put so much of their time, love and commitment into bettering this wonderful breed that we all love. I understand that me trying to breed my female with my limited knowledge would only do a great disservice to the breed and those breeders who I admire.

I have considered maybe getting into breeding one day, but that day is at least 30 years down the road. I am neither ready, educated or committed enough where I am today to breed.

I get your enthusiasm, you love your dog just like I love mine. But please calm down, take a breath and understand that people here don't hate your dog. They are saying what they are saying because they love this breed and hate seeing people who are not ready for the responsibility of breeding doing it anyway. 

I am sure your dog is wonderful, and whether she is mixed or pure, spayed or intact, your dog will still be wonderful.

Breeding is about so much more than having a wonderful dog. It's about education, time, resources and an incredible amount of commitment to the dog.

So take a breath and be okay with the fact that you're not ready to be a breeder. Very few people have that kind of commitment and education. 

It's okay. Spay your dog and enjoy her for the great animal that she is.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I believe you should spay your dog. You love her. Are you prepared to accept and respond appropriately to the risks involved in breeding? Do you realize that a middle of the night emergency with a whelping mother can cost anywhere from $1000 to $4000?????????? Are you prepared to walk away from your dog and have it die because you bred her? Are you prepared for the risk that she will die no matter how much money you do have to throw at the veterinarian if something goes wrong? Do you know how many posts I see daily on facebook about females whelping needing emergency care? I have an emergency credit card with an extremely high limit. I can walk into a clinic and pay for pretty much anything I need to with a bred female and puppies.....one such visit did cost me over $4000, another $1500 for a litter, and a third $850 for ONE puppy that I thought might have eaten part of a toy. It happens. Are you ready to chose big bucks or death for your dog or puppy????

I highly recommend you spay your girl when she is of the appropriate age. You are much more likely to have a long and happy life with her.

Lee


There is more to breeding


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

wolfstraum said:


> I believe you should spay your dog. You love her. Are you prepared to accept and respond appropriately to the risks involved in breeding? Do you realize that a middle of the night emergency with a whelping mother can cost anywhere from $1000 to $4000?????????? Are you prepared to walk away from your dog and have it die because you bred her? Are you prepared for the risk that she will die no matter how much money you do have to throw at the veterinarian if something goes wrong? Do you know how many posts I see daily on facebook about females whelping needing emergency care? I have an emergency credit card with an extremely high limit. I can walk into a clinic and pay for pretty much anything I need to with a bred female and puppies.....one such visit did cost me over $4000, another $1500 for a litter, and a third $850 for ONE puppy that I thought might have eaten part of a toy. It happens. Are you ready to chose big bucks or death for your dog or puppy????
> 
> I highly recommend you spay your girl when she is of the appropriate age. You are much more likely to have a long and happy life with her.
> 
> ...


Just look at your tone and attitude, totally trying to just shove your way of thinking down my throat even though you yourself are welling to do it.

So you don't love your dogs that's why you breed? Good to know.

Listen to all of you people, quite pitiful, telling me over and over that there's more to breeding but refusing to hear the fact that's what I'm here to find out about, but first I just wanted to find out whether she's pure and literally the WHOLE forum starts attacking me telling me I have no right to breed, I don't know anything, she is probably not good for it, full of it.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> Yes. You should, because you are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of owning an intact bitch. You are unwilling to see the precious thing that you have, and are melting down like a snowflake in May, just because people think you and she are not ready to consider breeding.


You're malicious and want to shove your thoughts down my throat and tell me I'm stupid (not mature) and can't breed properly and that I completely picked her based on her coat like I knew she would have distinct markings when she was a puppy with pure grey color coat (total bs).

By the way, she's a year and a half old now, still intact, never got pregnant, not that hard to keep a night caller away, you guys just make everything sound 1000% harder than it really is because you hate me/my dog and don't want me to do anything to do with breeding.

It's so obvious. Like you think I'm dumb or something? This is a GSD forum, outside of dogs, you don't know me at all, and what I do for a living, what education I have, nothing. Just assume I'm dumb because I asked about an uncommon coat that none of you can truly prove is mix or not.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winnal said:


> Cuz ur evil and want to shove your thoughts down my throat and tell me I'm stupid (not mature) and can't breed properly and that I completely picked her based on her coat like I knew she would have distinct markings when she was a puppy with pure grey color coat (total bs).


Personal attacks are not allowed here on this board, and if you get a few warnings they will give you a time out or ban you. No one is swearing at you or calling you names. But you are doing both, which suggests that you are not mature -- it does not suggest that you are stupid. 

The questions you are asking and the weight you are giving to various aspects of breeding suggest that you will not, at present, do even a mediocre job of it. Yes, that is an opinion, and opinions are within board rules here. If you ask a question, then expect people to give you an opinion. If they do not, than you will be all hurt because no one responds to your threads. 

By the way, swearing by using acronyms, or symbols in place of letters is also against the rules here. No one is impressed by it, and it will get you banned if you continue. That is not me picking on you, it is just me letting you know a few facts.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Winnal said:


> Just look at your tone and attitude, totally trying to just shove your way of thinking down my throat even though you yourself are welling to do it.
> 
> So you don't love your dogs that's why you breed? Good to know.
> 
> Listen to all of you people, quite pitiful, telling me over and over that there's more to breeding but refusing to hear the fact that's what I'm here to find out about, but first I just wanted to find out whether she's pure and literally the WHOLE forum starts attacking me telling me I have no right to breed, I don't know anything, she is probably not good for it, full of it.


Ok. You want to breed. First step is to familiarize yourself with Degenerative Myelopathy, Hip and Elbow Dysplasia, Megaesophagus, Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency, Von Willebrand's disease, Epilepsy, Gastric Dilation Volvulus, and Hemangiosarcoma. 

These are all devastating health issues that plague the GSD breed. There is a strong genetic component to them. You need to learn how they are inherited and how to avoid breeding puppies with these illnesses.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> Personal attacks are not allowed here on this board, and if you get a few warnings they will give you a time out or ban you. No one is swearing at you or calling you names. But you are doing both, which suggests that you are not mature -- it does not suggest that you are stupid.
> 
> The questions you are asking and the weight you are giving to various aspects of breeding suggest that you will not, at present, do even a mediocre job of it. Yes, that is an opinion, and opinions are within board rules here. If you ask a question, then expect people to give you an opinion. If they do not, than you will be all hurt because no one responds to your threads.
> 
> By the way, swearing by using acronyms, or symbols in place of letters is also against the rules here. No one is impressed by it, and it will get you banned if you continue. That is not me picking on you, it is just me letting you know a few facts.


Lol? When did I swear at someone? I called someone a maddog, apparently, that's foul language, name calling, ok. Calling you evil is like you calling me immature.

Telling me I'm not ready to breed because I'm asking valid questions is just being arrogant and abrasive, dismissive, and malicious.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Ok. You want to breed. First step is to familiarize yourself with Degenerative Myelopathy, Hip and Elbow Dysplasia, Megaesophagus, Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency, Von Willebrand's disease, Epilepsy, Gastric Dilation Volvulus, and Hemangiosarcoma.
> 
> These are all devastating health issues that plague the GSD breed. There is a strong genetic component to them. You need to learn how they are inherited and how to avoid breeding puppies with these illnesses.


See, this is the stuff I want to see. Useful, relevant information, not some stupid opinion about how you think I can't breed because you're the* ruler of this board*.

I do plan to do all the testing and health checks necessary before even considering breeding of course, these things these haters just assume I have no interest in at all.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winnal said:


> You're malicious and want to shove your thoughts down my throat and tell me I'm stupid (not mature) and can't breed properly and that I completely picked her based on her coat like I knew she would have distinct markings when she was a puppy with pure grey color coat (total bs).
> 
> By the way, she's a year and a half old now, still intact, never got pregnant, not that hard to keep a night caller away, you guys just make everything sound 1000% harder than it really is because you hate me/my dog and don't want me to do anything to do with breeding.
> 
> It's so obvious. Like you think I'm dumb or something? This is a GSD forum, outside of dogs, you don't know me at all, and what I do for a living, what education I have, nothing. Just assume I'm dumb because I asked about an uncommon coat that none of you can truly prove is mix or not.


It is actually not difficult at all to keep an intact bitch. I have 12 of them currently and have never had a problem keeping them intact/without unwanted litters. It isn't rocket science, and therefore, every time someone says, "whoops, my girl was bred accidentally yesterday, what do I have to do?" I just think, "baloney, you wanted puppies, and you are probably going to have some now." 

At the same time, you do not deserve kudos for keeping her intact and not bred. That is your duty as a dog owner. You don't get pats on the back for doing your duty with respect to your dog. You don't get a pat for feeding them each day, and a pat for taking them out to potty appropriately, no pats for picking up the poop, no pats for taking her to classes -- this stuff should be a given. Achieving a title -- you get pats for that because currently too few owners of GSDs are actually taking their dogs to that level of training, for whatever reason. 

The reason I believe you should get your puppy spayed is because I don't trust your inner yearning to make puppies out of her. I understand that yearning. I sympathize with it. But it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. You need to grow up an awful lot before taking that on -- an opinion based on the answers you provided to legitimate questions.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> It is actually not difficult at all to keep an intact bitch. I have 12 of them currently and have never had a problem keeping them intact/without unwanted litters. It isn't rocket science, and therefore, every time someone says, "whoops, my girl was bred accidentally yesterday, what do I have to do?" I just think, "baloney, you wanted puppies, and you are probably going to have some now."
> 
> At the same time, you do not deserve kudos for keeping her intact and not bred. That is your duty as a dog owner. You don't get pats on the back for doing your duty with respect to your dog. You don't get a pat for feeding them each day, and a pat for taking them out to potty appropriately, no pats for picking up the poop, no pats for taking her to classes -- this stuff should be a given. Achieving a title -- you get pats for that because currently too few owners of GSDs are actually taking their dogs to that level of training, for whatever reason.
> 
> The reason I believe you should get your puppy spayed is because I don't trust you inner yearning to make puppies out of her. I understand that yearning. I sympathize with it. But it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. You need to grow up an awful lot before taking that on -- an opinion based on the answers you provided to legitimate questions.


You're the master of shoving words down people's throats. Would make for a terrible lawyer.

I don't trust you either, now leave me alone.

You don't threaten me, I'll breed my princess if I want. She's my one and only love. And she's not a puppy, stop calling her that, I thought you were a good breeder, I doubt it.

LOL you have 12 females, OK, you breed for a living, good for you, churning out the litters. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Winnal said:


> See, this is the stuff I want to see. Useful, relevant information, not some stupid opinion about how you think I can't breed because you're the* ruler of this board*.
> 
> I do plan to do all the testing and health checks necessary before even considering breeding of course, these things these haters just assume I have no interest in at all.


Many of these do not have health test available for. Some of them do. You will need to judiciously research your dog's pedigree. Contact kennels of her ancestors, speak with the owners and breeders of her relatives and get a good handle on what genetics she has behind her. 

If your dog is from a BYB or is not purebred, then you won't be able to do the research into her pedigree that is necessary to make ethical decisions about her breeding potential.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Many of these do not have health test available for. Some of them do. You will need to judiciously research your dog's pedigree. Contact kennels of her ancestors, speak with the owners and breeders of her relatives and get a good handle on what genetics she has behind her.
> 
> If your dog is from a BYB or is not purebred, then you won't be able to do the research into her pedigree that is necessary to make ethical decisions about her breeding potential.


Thank you. 

Yes, she is pure (haters going to deny this, and I could care less, baseless assumptions). I have her pedigree and have begun researching her ancestry's genetics (still have to get into genetics further).


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Winnal said:


> Cuz ur evil and want to shove your thoughts down my throat and tell me I'm stupid and can't breed properly and that I completely picked her based on her coat like I knew she would have distinct markings when she was a puppy with pure grey color coat (total bs).


NO ... that is not what people are saying to you.

I'm not a "Breeder" and I not a "Pro." I'm just "JQP" (slightly) above average pet trainer. 

When I got my first Boxer a girl and but of course my first was puppies??? But for me the first thing was ... no way in "He!!" was I gonna be "selling" my puppies!! No one ... was good enough and actually keeping a crap load of Boxers." Was not really financially feasible for me??? And aside from that there are risk associated with puppy birth and I was also not willing to take chance with my "Struddell." So I was pretty much a fail on fronts??

Now all that aside ... what I did not know ... was that 70% of all "Boxers" carried the "DM" gene??? IE ... what's health testing??? I had no idea and mostly had I persuaded the breeding option ... I'd have unintentionally inflicted heartbreak and pain on anyone who had gotten a "Struddell" puppy ... doing that would not have been my intent! 

It is a "GSD" forum and people's first interest "here" is what's best for the breed. And "experienced" members are simply telling you that just becasue your dog ... "looks good and/or is unique" does not make them breed worthy. It takes more than good looks to make a "GSD" breed worthy ... facts are facts. 

If you want to heard nothing but undying ... go for it support ... then "FaceBook" is you friend. You are of course ... free to do as you see fit. But now you know. 

Oh and finally point ... I chose my third Boxer based on "looks" White Boxer ... not the norm, worked out fine no regrets. Looking for another now.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> NO ... that is not what people are saying to you.
> 
> I'm not a "Breeder" and I not a "Pro." I'm just "JQP" (slightly) above average pet trainer.
> 
> ...


See, this is where you guys are railing on me for no valid reason.* Pure assumption and miscomprehension. All because I said 'rare', people got all offended. I'm sorry. I meant, 'uncommon', even 'non-standard' in conformation.*

Stated: *I did not say my dog is breed worthy just because of her coat. I said I want to see if she is breed worthy*, and she also has an uncommon coat that a lot of people believe is a mix but I believe she could be pure (people are opposed to this already) but *based on other traits and features I have noted*, I want to further investigate the potential for her to be breed.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Winnal said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, she is pure (haters going to deny this, and I could care less, baseless assumptions). I have her pedigree and have begun researching her ancestry's genetics (still have to get into genetics further).


you had your doubts !

share the genetics and you will be able to research her ancestry's genetics , quicker and more accurately.

who is the dam?

have any of them been x rayed?


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

carmspack said:


> you had your doubts !
> 
> share the genetics and you will be able to research her ancestry's genetics , quicker and more accurately.
> 
> ...


At first, but helpful people showed me the way.

Only some of the dogs from the 1st gen out of 4 listed have some OFA from the dam's side. Sire's 3rd gen has an OFA.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

carmspack said:


> you had your doubts !
> 
> share the genetics and you will be able to research her ancestry's genetics , quicker and more accurately.
> 
> ...


 @Winnal 

Yes. This. There are breeders and pedigree experts on this board who can tell you what you have with just a glance of the pedigree.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Winnal said:


> You're the master of shoving words down people's throats.
> 
> I don't trust you either, now leave me alone.
> 
> ...


 
LOL!!! Yep, you will learn that the only way to become a millionaire with dogs is to start out as a billionaire -- that there is a fact for you and you can take it to the bank. 

Most of my girls are retired sport dogs, most have never been bred, and many never will be.

You'll just have to take my word for it, that the money you make for one - two litters per year doesn't pay the vet or the food bill, much less all the rest of the money we pump out for our dogs. It's ok though, that is not what it is all about.


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

selzer said:


> LOL!!! Yep, you will learn that the only way to become a millionaire with dogs is to start out as a billionaire -- that there is a fact for you and you can take it to the bank.
> 
> Most of my girls are retired sport dogs, most have never been bred, and many never will be.
> 
> You'll just have to take my word for it, that the money you make for one - two litters per year doesn't pay the vet or the food bill, much less all the rest of the money we pump out for our dogs. It's ok though, that is not what it is all about.


Another presumption right? I don't plan on becoming a millionaire through dogs. I'm just interested in my one dog and her dogs. That's what you don't get.

People are so offended because I mentioned the word 'rare' incited a lot of anger because it's like saying other's are 'common', I did not by any way intend on offending anyone, I think it's great that my dog has an 'uncommon' coat but could be pure, people may disagree with me, but what am I to do about it?

All I can do is then say, well it's just as awesome to have a dog with a champion bloodline genetics and all the traits and qualities of that breed, and I am just here to find out how I can begin to learn the ways to evaluate my dog to see, even with her 'non-standard' coat, if she is in fact pure, and then, if she has potentially similar qualities to that of a champion bloodline just not the coat conformation aspect, perhaps as a working line, like k9 police I was thinking.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

You're not ready to breed because you can't get through a basic conversation about your dog without throwing a tantrum. 

If you're here to learn then start reading old threads. Ask questions about the breed, genetics, health issues. There's no point in asking about breeding your specific dog because you need the basics down first.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Winnal said:


> See, this is the stuff I want to see. Useful, relevant information, not some stupid opinion about how you think I can't breed because you're the* ruler of this board*.
> 
> I do plan to do all the testing and health checks necessary before even considering breeding of course, these things these haters just assume I have no interest in at all.


Great. Some of those tests can be done now. And she is a good age to find a trainer or club and have her evaluated.
By the way Londons coloring was actually fairly common back in the day and he proved pretty good at passing it on. It is less seen today because responsible breeders moved away from the lines that created it but is still seen. While London was a stunning looking dog it was largely his sons and daughter who actually performed and while Charles was a talented man and proved a highly adept trainer, it seems that the talent in the gene pool faded quickly which tells me it likely came from the few stellar dams that he accessed to produce the original pups and not from London himself. Subsequent breedings by Charles with the bitches he purchased copied the coloring but never the character and brains of those original pups.
Your dog is pretty. I am saddened by your references to her being useless and garbage. Dogs should not be valued solely as potential breeding stock.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Winnal said:


> At first, but helpful people showed me the way.
> 
> Only some of the dogs from the 1st gen out of 4 listed have some OFA from the dam's side. Sire's 3rd gen has an OFA.


Could you take a picture of the papers you have and upload them? 

I'm not a breeder and suck at reading pedigrees so I can't help you much there lol but your girl does have some interesting colors and I'd love to see what lines she is from to satisfy my own curiosity.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

voodoolamb said:


> Could you take a picture of the papers you have and upload them?
> 
> I'm not a breeder and suck at reading pedigrees so I can't help you much there lol but your girl does have some interesting colors and I'd love to see what lines she is from to satisfy my own curiosity.


I'd be curious about this, too. I'm in no way offended by your use of the word "rare," I am however the sort of person that wants to see the proof behind these words.

As I've stated before, you have a nice looking dog that really reminds me of a breed I adore (Tamaskan) so I'd be really interested to see the pedigree. And then, those who are pedigree experts here, can give you advice.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Winnal (Mar 23, 2017)

Dotbat215 said:


> You're not ready to breed because you can't get through a basic conversation about your dog without throwing a tantrum.
> 
> If you're here to learn then start reading old threads. Ask questions about the breed, genetics, health issues. There's no point in asking about breeding your specific dog because you need the basics down first.


When you assume that I am trying to breed because of coat, rather than trying to see if she is breed worthy, even with her coat, if she is pure and has an enforcing bloodline, and then tell me that I am not worthy because of a misconception, then I tend to get annoyed.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Winnal said:


> See, this is where you guys are railing on me for no valid reason. Pure assumption and miscomprehension.
> 
> Stated: I did not say my dog is breed worthy just because of her coat. I said I want to see if she is breed worthy, and she also has an uncommon coat that a lot of people believe is a mix but I believe she could be pure (people are opposed to this already) but based on other traits and features I have noted, I want to further investigate the potential for her to be breed.


I understand and I don't think people were saying ... don't research further?? 

But they are saying ... it takes more that looking unique .. to be breed worthy. You actually ...caught a break! In a different thread lost track off it but "Selzer" actually gave an exclamation of the hows and whys of "BYB's" and it made a lot of sense! 

You don't know any of us ... but you came here with a "subject" that a year or two ago ... would have gotten you blasted out of the water ... right out the gate. 

Without using a lot of words, ... which is my thing. If you do want to breed your dog??? Do the heavy lifting get "whatever" titles required on your dog?? Get her health tested and ... then you come back say ... back the heck the heck off! 

Heck ... that's what I ought to do with my "White Boxer" obsession ... but I'm kinda lazy. 

Selzer ... merely gave you facts ... frankly I was impressed, with her restraint?? I saw the title and my first thought was ... "uh oh" here we go again! But as it happened ... not so much???

No one ... well "OK" not everyone is interested in "beating you down." But we do like to "Keep It Real" for people. Heck ... I luv my "OS Wl GSD" but as a GSD advocate?? I'm pretty much useless ... based on my experiance with my first "WL GSD??" I just flat don't recommend a "WL GSD" to anyone I know! Nonetheless despite me ... GSD's are consistently in the top three of most popular dogs in America??? 

So my default postion is to try and help owners whose first WL GSD experiance ... is not working out too well out. 

If you want to actually "understand" what it takes to have a truly breed "Worthy GSD" ... your in the right place. You don't need to understand everything about dogs. You just need to know ... those who do.


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