# Help finding the right breeder!



## xsaysayx (Feb 14, 2010)

Hi! Within the next few years I'm going to be adopting a GSD, and I want to decide on a breeder before then to build a relationship.
I'm looking for a West German Line breeder, who does Schutzhund with their dogs, produces (of course) red and black pups, and the bigger the dogs, the better.
I intend to get a red/black male pup, and to do schutzhund with him, as well as agility, CGC, rally-o, and anything else I (and him!) become interested in!
I've been looking at a few breeders and tried contacting them but they either haven't been what I'm looking for or haven't gotten back to me. 

I've been looking at this breeder. He seems to have what I'm looking for, but I'd really like some experts to give me their opinion on him.
I know his dogs are healthy, sound, and amazing with schutzhund. He's also very nice from what I could tell by talking on the phone with him shortly, but like I said, I'd like an experts opinion. 
Here is the website.
German Shepherd Breeders, Trained German Shepherds, Imports, Puppies For Sale, West German Shepherd Training

Also, if any of you guys are breeders and produce the types of pup I'm looking for, I'd love to learn more.
Thanks in advance!


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

I am in no way "qualified" to give a professional opinion, but I did search his name and a few threads came up. They all basically say he is more of a broker than a breeder. He imports the puppies from Germany and then sell them here. Not saying that their is anything bad with that, just telling you what came out of the other threads. I am not able to give you any references because I am on the "hunt" and will be checking out a breeder in a couple of weeks. If you don't mind me asking in there a certain "area" you are looking at, or are you willing to have a puppy shipped? This will help anyone that is able to give references.

On a side note, you said "The bigger, the better" But after being on this forum for a few months I think you Will find many that will tell you that a reputable breeder will not breed for size. There is a standard when it comes to size, and all reputable breeders are breeding to try to conform to the standard. Just though I would throw that out there  Good luck with your search!!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

what state are you located in? this might help with people offering suggestions.

Chris Wild comes to mind, she is a member here, however, size will not come into the equation


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

A "few years" is a long time away. Why look to get locked into 1 or 2 breeders? A lot of things will change in a few years.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Ace952 said:


> A "few years" is a long time away. Why look to get locked into 1 or 2 breeders? A lot of things will change in a few years.


Just for the sake of a friendly debate...Why not? He said within a few years, and IMHO I don't think a few years is really that long. I think it is a good idea to find a reputable breeder that you like early on. That way you can keep in communication, and they will keep you up to date with litters and pairings. It could even take a couple of years (or so I have heard) for a breeder to have a puppy that would fit a person's/families needs. So I personally see nothing wrong with this. I plan on getting a puppy within the next couple of years and plan on doing the same thing. You are right that a lot can happen, but lets say he finds a breeder and for some reason they decide not to breed anymore, as long as he didn't put a deposit down, what really is he out then? Just time spent researching, but if the breeder were that good to begin with, I am sure they would be able to lead the person to another reputable breeder that they would trust. That is just my train of thinking


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## xsaysayx (Feb 14, 2010)

Danielle609 said:


> I am in no way "qualified" to give a professional opinion, but I did search his name and a few threads came up. They all basically say he is more of a broker than a breeder. He imports the puppies from Germany and then sell them here. Not saying that their is anything bad with that, just telling you what came out of the other threads. I am not able to give you any references because I am on the "hunt" and will be checking out a breeder in a couple of weeks. If you don't mind me asking in there a certain "area" you are looking at, or are you willing to have a puppy shipped? This will help anyone that is able to give references.
> 
> On a side note, you said "The bigger, the better" But after being on this forum for a few months I think you Will find many that will tell you that a reputable breeder will not breed for size. There is a standard when it comes to size, and all reputable breeders are breeding to try to conform to the standard. Just though I would throw that out there  Good luck with your search!!


I'm in the Virginia area but I'm willing to travel and/or ship a pup, even from out of the country. Whatever it takes.
And I know  I just mean, it's not a priority, but as far as the standard goes I like the males on the larger end of the scale. I love big dogs, haha. 
From what I know from talking about him, it's like this. He is part of a kennel that's actually located IN Germany, and the pups he imports are from that kennel. So basically he's part of a small kennel in Germany but he resides here I suppose well, because he wants to, and to populate the US with his dogs.
He's a REALLY nice man and he knows what he's talking about, but I'm definitely not going to decide on the first nice breeder I meet


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## xsaysayx (Feb 14, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> what state are you located in? this might help with people offering suggestions.
> 
> Chris Wild comes to mind, she is a member here, however, size will not come into the equation


Virginia/North Carolina. Right on the border.
I see her kennel site. She breeds beautiful dogs, however I'm definitely set on a red and black and all I see are sable and black.


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## xsaysayx (Feb 14, 2010)

Danielle609 said:


> Just for the sake of a friendly debate...Why not? He said within a few years, and IMHO I don't think a few years is really that long. I think it is a good idea to find a reputable breeder that you like early on. That way you can keep in communication, and they will keep you up to date with litters and pairings. It could even take a couple of years (or so I have heard) for a breeder to have a puppy that would fit a person's/families needs. So I personally see nothing wrong with this. I plan on getting a puppy within the next couple of years and plan on doing the same thing. You are right that a lot can happen, but lets say he finds a breeder and for some reason they decide not to breed anymore, as long as he didn't put a deposit down, what really is he out then? Just time spent researching, but if the breeder were that good to begin with, I am sure they would be able to lead the person to another reputable breeder that they would trust. That is just my train of thinking


That's what I think  I just REALLY want to build a relationship with a (or some) breeders, so that when the time is right they'll not only trust me and I'll trust them, and they'll help me get experience with the breed! I plan to go to sieger shows and schutzhund shows, as well as make a few trips to some breeders I do find a liking for in the area. I'm just making sure I do NOT rush into this breed, especially with all I intend to do with it. I'm not going to attempt to buy until I'm 110% ready. !


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Danielle609 said:


> Just for the sake of a friendly debate...Why not? He said within a few years, and IMHO I don't think a few years is really that long. I think it is a good idea to find a reputable breeder that you like early on. That way you can keep in communication, and they will keep you up to date with litters and pairings. It could even take a couple of years (or so I have heard) for a breeder to have a puppy that would fit a person's/families needs. So I personally see nothing wrong with this.


Totally agree. I knew my breeder for a couple of years before getting a pup from her. It's totally worth your while to get involved in the scene before getting a puppy, that way you get to actually SEE people's dogs and what they are producing, and can get an idea of what you want or don't want.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

you could also check johnshaus,,Carolina is a member here, lovely dogs and she's in your neck of the woods


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Danielle609 said:


> Just for the sake of a friendly debate...Why not? He said within a few years, and IMHO I don't think a few years is really that long. I think it is a good idea to find a reputable breeder that you like early on. That way you can keep in communication, and they will keep you up to date with litters and pairings. It could even take a couple of years (or so I have heard) for a breeder to have a puppy that would fit a person's/families needs. So I personally see nothing wrong with this. I plan on getting a puppy within the next couple of years and plan on doing the same thing. You are right that a lot can happen, but lets say he finds a breeder and for some reason they decide not to breed anymore, as long as he didn't put a deposit down, what really is he out then? Just time spent researching, but if the breeder were that good to begin with, I am sure they would be able to lead the person to another reputable breeder that they would trust. That is just my train of thinking


Well with a few years I am guessing 3 years away maybe? I say if you are serious then take two years just researching dogs and lines so you don't get stuck on one or 2 breeders and possibly miss out on others b/c you have tunnel vision.

I have noticed that people send newbies to the same breeders all the time and it isn't until you really research you find breeders all over the world that have what you are looking for. Some which have great lines and awesome dogs that only with thorough research you are able to find.

After really looking at PED's, studying them and the dogs and really seeing what is TRULY out there then you may change your mind, reshift focus and all. Then when you are about a year away from purchasing a puppy, then you start seeing out of those who fit your criteria, then give a call and see.

Research to me is more important than anything else and doing it independent is a lot better so you don't get jaded or lean in one direction over another. On forums I always see the same kennels being listed and to be honest, there are a ton of great breeders who many have no clue are in operation and wouldn't know until you did some in depth research. By the time you call the breeder you should be able to tell them your thoughts on their breeding and ask very good and specific questions about certain dogs and what you think a litter is producing. Too many times people come online and ask about a dogs pedigree AFTER they have bought the dog. No bueno.

Lastly...Who knows who they will be using to breed in a couple of years. Dogs die, new top producing studs & bitches come to the forefront, some breeders quit or their breeding stock goes down.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

And FWIW I am just speaking from personal experience. 

I hate to waste a breeders time and so I feel if I am calling them I should be asking real in depth questions showing I have done solid research rather than asking questions I really could have found out online using google.

I know looking back I made the right choice going with my breeder as I got exactly and more than I wanted in a dog. 
If I wanted a dog in the future I would only buy from my breeder here in the U.S but outside of that I'm looking in Europe at kennels most people don't know of but certain breeders do.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

I do agree with most of what you are saying. I cannot tell you how many hours I have spent researching breeders and even just basic information so I can understand the dog's basic pedigree and titles. I do realize it is easy to get "caught up" on one breeder, but if they are reputable so what? I think the average person looking for a good companion pet won't be too phased if the breeder they have picked out didn't get first place at the last Sieger show (I am still learning how titles work, and more about the sieger show...so I think they pick a top dog....not sure) Now if you are looking for top dogs to show/breed then I completely agree 100% you wouldn't want to get "tunnel vision" as you called it. 

Now on a side note, if you don't mind me asking, do you have WL or SL GSD's? I am just curious to know who your breeder is  I have one breeder I will be meeting soon that I have heard great things about (and through internet contact seems like an amazing Lady...and she has some amazing dogs...yes I may have tunnel vision  )...but I like to look at other kennels too


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## xsaysayx (Feb 14, 2010)

Danielle609 said:


> I do agree with most of what you are saying. I cannot tell you how many hours I have spent researching breeders and even just basic information so I can understand the dog's basic pedigree and titles. I do realize it is easy to get "caught up" on one breeder, but if they are reputable so what? I think the average person looking for a good companion pet won't be too phased if the breeder they have picked out didn't get first place at the last Sieger show (I am still learning how titles work, and more about the sieger show...so I think they pick a top dog....not sure) Now if you are looking for top dogs to show/breed then I completely agree 100% you wouldn't want to get "tunnel vision" as you called it.
> 
> Now on a side note, if you don't mind me asking, do you have WL or SL GSD's? I am just curious to know who your breeder is  I have one breeder I will be meeting soon that I have heard great things about (and through internet contact seems like an amazing Lady...and she has some amazing dogs...yes I may have tunnel vision  )...but I like to look at other kennels too


Ah, I don't currently own any German Shepherds but I'm set on a red/black west working line. 
I definitely want a top dog. The very best I can find!  
Right now I'm still not SET on a breeder and I'm still very much looking, but I'm very interested in this one.
German Shepherd Breeders, Trained German Shepherds, Imports, Puppies For Sale, West German Shepherd Training

And I've just looked through here and I'm interested.
Globalhaus German Shepherds | Breeder | North Carolina | Puppies

I'm willing to settle for west show lines, but they HAVE to have a drive for schutzhund because I'm very much in love with the sport.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

xsaysayx said:


> Ah, I don't currently own any German Shepherds but I'm set on a red/black west working line.
> I definitely want a top dog. The very best I can find!
> Right now I'm still not SET on a breeder and I'm still very much looking, but I'm very interested in this one.
> German Shepherd Breeders, Trained German Shepherds, Imports, Puppies For Sale, West German Shepherd Training
> ...


Sorry, I actually meant that towards Ace...I forgot to quote him. But I will take a look at those links. Thanks!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

In response to the statement regarding 'why the same breeders are always recommended'...

There isn't really anything wrong with that. If a certain breeder time after time produces quality litters and satisfies most, if not all, of their customers--then why recommend another breeder that 'seems' good, but you don't know as well?

The two breeders that were recommended that are from this forum not only produce amazing dogs that tons of members on here are happy with, but spend countless hours on this forum dedicating their time to helping new german shepherd owners. 

I would much rather buy from a breeder that not only helps the buyers of their own dogs, but helps all german shepherd owners as a whole...it shows how much they love and care for the breed. If they will treat complete strangers with other breeders' puppies so well, then how awesome must they treat their own puppies and puppy owners?

My next german shepherd will 100% be from a breeder on this forum or be recommended to me by a breeder on this forum.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

xsaysayx said:


> Ah, I don't currently own any German Shepherds but I'm set on a red/black west working line.


Generally the red and black dogs are going to be West German showlines, not working. West German working lines are typically sable, black and tan, bi-color, or solid black.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

Danielle609 said:


> I do agree with most of what you are saying. I cannot tell you how many hours I have spent researching breeders and even just basic information so I can understand the dog's basic pedigree and titles. I do realize it is easy to get "caught up" on one breeder, but if they are reputable so what? I think the average person looking for a good companion pet won't be too phased if the breeder they have picked out didn't get first place at the last Sieger show (I am still learning how titles work, and more about the sieger show...so I think they pick a top dog....not sure) Now if you are looking for top dogs to show/breed then I completely agree 100% you wouldn't want to get "tunnel vision" as you called it.
> 
> Now on a side note, if you don't mind me asking, do you have WL or SL GSD's? I am just curious to know who your breeder is  I have one breeder I will be meeting soon that I have heard great things about (and through internet contact seems like an amazing Lady...and she has some amazing dogs...yes I may have tunnel vision  )...but I like to look at other kennels too


Yes, you can certainly get caught up with one or two breeders and get tunnel vision as it happened to me. Not a bad as it worked out for me and does to many but always good to keep the blinders off. Like buying a car or house Check out every dealership or open house and don't even talk to a sales person/realeator till you have just looked around.

I certainly agree with you, if you are just looking for "pet/companion" then you don't need to look around the world and don't need to be so extensive in your search. No need to be super extensive.

I have a czech WL. I went from wanting a GSD like I saw on Dog Whisperer (and almost bought one) and then learned about the different lines and ended up with working lines as it was exactly what I wanted in terms for what I wanted to do.

It is hard though not to get tunnel vision as you fall in love quick.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> In response to the statement regarding 'why the same breeders are always recommended'...
> 
> There isn't really anything wrong with that. If a certain breeder time after time produces quality litters and satisfies most, if not all, of their customers--then why recommend another breeder that 'seems' good, but you don't know as well?
> 
> ...


I certainly see your point and I don't disagree with it. There are some very good breeders on this forum that are very nice and have some really nice dogs.

Just me personally, I try to look all around for the dog that I want. Recommendations are great but I also want to check out breeders that maybe only other breeders know of. There are some top breeders that I am finally finding out about and it took some someone to mention it to me with lines I was seriously interested in.

I think it all depends on what you are looking for and what your plans are for the dog and what your preference is. I prefer czech GSD's. So I now ivest my time in learning the lines and the breeders over there. I try to learn the smaller one's that may not be known here but are well known over there. Many you only find out about via word of mouth.

As far as it goes with the breeder helping me and what not, I agree that is a good thing to look for especially if you are new and need direction. For me I care more about getting a good dog than I do with the help afterwards. I think many people wouldn't know a good dog if it bite them...lol.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Black & Red GSDs are found in WGSL(West German Showlines). So I would start looking at breeders who breed for those.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Alta-Tollhaus in Michigan, they breed exactly what your looking for, I couldn't be happier with my dog.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

For whats its worth... black and red is going to come from showlines whats more important to you the color or all the sports your planning on doing? You want to do Schutzhund agility and some other things your best bet to get that is going to be from working lines where most common is the sables and blacks of course some bi-colors and black/tan of course tan doesn't have to be pale like cream some are a more red color. Either way which matters more to you, you stated wanting the "best there is for SchH" well hate to say it your odds of finding that are by getting a WORKING line pup which means you really need to compromise on color some.

I don't mean to sound rude but I kind of chuckle reading your post because when I started my search I was willing to do whatever to find my dog I was DEAD SET on a black and tan/red prefered blanket back had to be male wanted the biggest male possible etc... welllll......... fast forwards a few years I have a LONG COAT SABLE FEMALE and really couldn't be happier. You didn't mention your experience in the sport world or dog handling etc.. hate to say it but most good breeders are not going to give you that top dog if you don't have the experiance because they care about the dog and know it will be too much dog for a new handler. I was all gung ho to get the best of the best off the jump until I was very politely humbled by an amazing person. If you are new to a high drive GSD I can not stress how important it is to get an amazing breeder that is there for you and you get a bond with they are *INVALUABLE!!!!!!!!!!!* 

Like it has been stated on this thread the same breeders get recommended because they have an amazing amount of knowledge and are always volunteering so much of their time on this board (and other boards) helping beginers and even the more experianced in the breed with all sorts of problems. For whoever said they can't imagine how great these people are to their puppy buyers I can't even put it in to words. Having that support system every time something happens or when your freaking out because your new puppy just did something off the wall always having top training advice etc.. its beyond invaluable and these breeders being recommended are being recommended for a reason and for anyone looking for a working line dog I will time and time again refer them to my breeder. I have trainers that have been training working dogs for years AMAZED at my girl and shes a middle of the road pup so just imagine the higher drive working pups.

BTW you looked at Chris's website notice she has a gorgeous black/tan pup (darker reddish tan) who should be breeding around the time you are looking at getting a pup. If you have any questions or further info feel free to ask or PM me I'd be more then glad to talk.


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