# Coyotes vs. a GSD?



## Dennq

We now in southern Ontario are becoming over-run with packs of coyotes. Since I have some acreage and let my three guys (GSD, Border Collie, Sheltie) stretch their legs daily, am kinda worried about the possibility of the coyotes attacking them. I do carry a gun but sometimes I loose sight of them.

Is this something I should fret about? I can hear the coyotes howling out back as I type this.

Anyone else ever heard of coyotes attacking large dogs?


I know coyotes will hunt cats and little dogs. My Sheltie is just a little guy and is eleven. He is never out without his brothers.


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## Lucy Dog

You need to be careful with coyotes especially if you have a curious dog. One on one a GSD may be able to hold their own, but coyotes are smart. They're very good hunters.

One will appear out of no where and bait your dog to play with it. It will get your dog to follow it into the woods where the rest of it's pack is waiting and your dog goes from being a pet to being a coyote meal. 

This is actually a really good youtube video of what i'm talking about.


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## Uniballer

Dennq said:


> Anyone else ever heard of coyotes attacking large dogs?


I remember hearing about a pair of Labbies killed by a pack of coyotes when they got ahead of their owner cross country skiing in (I think) Cattaraugus county New York a few years ago. I seem to recall that he was armed, and got a few shots off, but it was already too late. I couldn't find an article referring to this incident.

A GSD is bigger than a Lab, but coyotes are pretty **** bold when they are in packs.


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## AbbyK9

> I do carry a gun but sometimes I loose sight of them.


I do a lot of off-leash hiking with my dogs on our property (74 acres) and our neighbor's adjoining property (105 acres, with neighbor's permission) and I NEVER loose sight of my dogs. They don't get to be so far away from me that I cannot see them - that's a safety issue. IMHO it's also a training issue - they should be close enough to where I can see them.

In my area, we have A LOT of coyotes. They do bother our neighbor a lot more than they bother us, primarily because our neighbor raises and keeps wool sheep. He has, on several occasions, caught coyotes right inside his barn, or outside in his sheep pasture around dawn. That seems to be when they are most active.

Early fall last year we had a big issue with a female who had pups and would actually come out in the middle of the day. When the neighbor was haying one of his fields, she was out in the field, catching/eating mice that were chased up by the tractor. Middle of the day with people working in the field.

We started having much less of a coyote issue when we started hunting them on request of our neighbor after they'd killed several of his sheep within a short period of time. Once we started shooting them, they moved on, although we still sometimes hear them at night, though not nearly as close as they used to come.

Our coyotes here are approximately the size of my Malinois and very similar in coloring to my Shepherd. As they're known to attack sheep - which are taller and heavier than either of my dogs - I don't think they'd shy away from attacking "large" dogs. Actually, there was a case here in NY this summer where a pack of coyotes attacked a young girl (I believe she was 6 years old?) in front of her house!


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## Dennq

Wow you can see the coyote looking at his pack over his shoulder.


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## KZoppa

Coyotes are dangerous so yes.... you should be worried. Very worried. Health departments and shelters are getting more and more calls regarding coyotes and attacks and the like. Coyotes are also showing up more when tested to have rabies. The rule of thumb is to not allow smaller animals outside after dark. If you have a garage they can go potty in and you can clean it up in the morning, do that. Coyotes are extremely intelligent, excellent hunters and opportunistic. They'll take whatever they can get, the easier the better. Your GSD may be able to take on a coyote and your collie could probably hold his own pretty well but i can promise the sheltie would lose whether he's got protectors or not. If you truly do have a pack of coyotes nearby, NONE of your dogs should be allowed outside after dark without serious supervision. Its asking for trouble. Flood lights help as coyotes are nocturnal and would prefer to stay in the safety of the dark when hunting.


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## Dennq

I forgot to put away my chickens the other night and lost fifteen Barnvelders and Welsummers. Kinda hard to get.

Neighbors suggested I leave the dogs out at night but I like my guys in the house with me at night.

My geese and ducks are smart and stay in the pond and they know they are safe there.


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## ChristenHolden

Get some firecrackers the loud pop kind. Like blackcats or the red ones with a green fuse. We have them here too. Even been in the yard. We can hear them most nights. When there real close I light and toss these off the pourch. They sound JUS like gun shots. 100% of the time they stop midd yodle and we don't hear them for the rest of the night and no one gets killed. No one gets hurt. I have a huge sack of them thell last till the next 4th of july. If these cototes have been hunted the should run.


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## Dennq

ChristenHolden said:


> Get some firecrackers the loud pop kind. Like blackcats or the red ones with a green fuse. We have them here too. Even been in the yard. We can hear them most nights. When there real close I light and toss these off the pourch. They sound JUS like gun shots. 100% of the time they stop midd yodle and we don't hear them for the rest of the night and no one gets killed. No one gets hurt. I have a huge sack of them thell last till the next 4th of july. If these cototes have been hunted the should run.


I wish we could still buy forecrackers here! Our government like to do all our thinking for us here.

Oh the childhood memories.


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## Wolfiesmom

A pack of coyotes killed a 90 lb Weimeraner down the street from me earlier this spring. I saw one tracking me and Wolfie on a walk around that same time. We live in a busy suburb, so no guns, or firecrackers are allowed. I carry pepper spray, keep away from the woodsy areas, and keep my eyes open


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## DJEtzel

Wolfiesmom said:


> A pack of coyotes killed a 90 lb Weimeraner down the street from me earlier this spring. I saw one tracking me and Wolfie on a walk around that same time. We live in a busy suburb, so no guns, or firecrackers are allowed. I carry pepper spray, keep away from the woodsy areas, and keep my eyes open


Guns aren't allowed? What country do you live in?


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## Wolfiesmom

DJEtzel said:


> Guns aren't allowed? What country do you live in?


 The good old USA! You can't carry a gun without a license to carry and it's really hard to get a license in the people's republic of Massachusetts, especially in the Boston suburbs.


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## doggiedad

great space for the dogs. good job on training by
keeping them in your sight.



AbbyK9 said:


> I do a lot of off-leash hiking with my dogs on our property (74 acres) and our neighbor's adjoining property (105 acres, with neighbor's permission) and I NEVER loose sight of my dogs. They don't get to be so far away from me that I cannot see them - that's a safety issue. IMHO it's also a training issue - they should be close enough to where I can see them.


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## DJEtzel

Wolfiesmom said:


> The good old USA! You can't carry a gun without a license to carry and it's really hard to get a license in the people's republic of Massachusetts, especially in the Boston suburbs.


Ah, gotcha. It's stupid easy to get Concealed Weapons Permits around here, and we have open carry.


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## Caledon

Although I've never seen one around here in Mississuaga, I've been told that there are certain areas in which they roam.

Warnings are issued in the paper advising that you keep a close eye on all dogs, not just small ones. The article was saying that some young desperate males may be looking to mate and go after a bigger dog with this intention.

They may be smaller than a GSD but they are smart and great hunters.


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## crisp

My house borders a forest preserve so I actually see them cutting through our yard in the winter all the time. They are scrawny compared to my dog but as someone mentioned above but they do bait the dogs and attack as packs. I've run into countless ones in the woods and they are usually easily spooked with just a rock throw. But in the deep winter, with scarce food, I don't take chances and carry bear spray in the woods.


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## manb1

I, too, walk with the dogs (6yo and 5 mo GSDs) in our 70 acres of woods (surrounded by miles of woods). They stick pretty closely to where I am. Lots of coyotes here, too. So far, only a couple of daytime sightings. There are lots of sign that they've been around (bears, too) - among lots of other woods critters. I no longer go armed, but certainly may regret that sometime. We hear the coyotes at night, and the dogs don't go far from the back door for their bedtime bathroom break. Biggest dog/critter issue in the past 5 years has been a round or two with a porcupine (requiring doggie ER visit). Glad she learned from that lesson


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## paulag1955

We have coyotes in our neighborhood and they are so bold as to approach within 30 feet of our house. Do not discount the danger they pose, even to full grown humans. Given the right circumstances, they will attack.

Coyotes Kill Woman on Hike in Canadian Park - ABC News


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## Jgk2383

Here in AZ they are everywhere and its getting worse. They are getting VERY brave too... A few weeks ago a pack was spotted out by an elementry school. You can see them in the washes all the time too and at night you can always hear them. Scary stuff.


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## Miikkas mom

Last month, DH and I took a little trip up to Rocky Mountain National Park. We stayed at a resort in Estes Park, CO. I noticed an animal coming at us. At first I thought is was a loose dog. Then my husband said it was a coyote. I took a picture of it before running away


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## paulag1955

Oh, and I forgot to say that one of our neighborhood coyotes has mange. It is a sorry looking thing and I wouldn't want it getting too close to my baby even if it wouldn't hurt her.


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## KZoppa

Miikkas mom said:


> Last month, DH and I took a little trip up to Rocky Mountain National Park. We stayed at a resort in Estes Park, CO. I noticed an animal coming at us. At first I thought is was a loose dog. Then my husband said it was a coyote. I took a picture of it before running away


 
I'm from Colorado Springs orginally and when i was living at home while hubby was deployed, i was driving down the street and had a pack of coyotes rush out in front of me. My dog Zena was in the car with me and went nuts growing and barking at them, fur faised. Man she was feirce. Glad she was on my side...and in the car. Went home and told my father in law i knew why neighborhood cats and dogs were going missing and that there was a pack of coyotes that had apparently taken up residence. We lived out in a busy area but there were wooded areas and such all over the neighborhood. Needless to say, i stopped my nightly walks with the dogs (i was also pregnant and running not a possible thing at the time). We noticed a major decrease in deer and fox sitings. There are TONS of little kids that live in that neighborhood too.


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## Dennq

Recent trail cam pics of "yotes not 50 yards from the house.


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## Jessiewessie99

I live in the city but there are have been reports of coyotes at El Dorado Park(its a huge park with nature walk and stuff) people's dogs were snatched, mostly they take little dogs, but they have probably taken down big dogs too. The shelter I volunteer at is right next to the Nature Center and El Dorado Park. Scary thought.

I have an aunt who lives in the desert where coyotes are common.She used to have Great Danes, but now she has a Min Pin/Chi Mix, and a Maltese/Chi Mix. I remember one time we were up visiting her and my cousins. My sister, and my cousins went bike riding at night(I know stupid) and eventually they came back like 20 minutes later running into the house breathing heavily. We asked them why they were running, te told us they were being chased by coyotes. Anothr time I was up there we went to the cemetary where Roy Rogers is buried and heard a coyote howl.

We haven't heard of them getting close to the houses only at El Dorado Park and the Nature Center.


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## dogfaeries

I live next to a golf course, and sometimes I can hear the coyotes at night. I saw one, at dusk, standing on the side of the road about a mile south of me one time.

Anyway, I was reading the coyote discussion on the forum around lunch time today, and decided to go get some food. As we were driving by the golf course I saw a coyote standing near the water hazard. I was amazed. I mean it was noon! I was really spooked when I saw it, having just read all about coyotes earlier!

On the way back from eating I looked over at the course again, and it was still there. What? 

So we pulled in and took a closer look. It was a cardboard cutout of a coyote, on a stake, stuck in the ground. Apparently to keep the geese out of the water hazard.

Not so sure why we need cardboard coyotes, when we have them on the golf course for real!


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## Chicagocanine

I live in Chicago and coyotes are actually very common in the city here. A few years ago there was a study on urban coyotes in Chicago, and they caught and tagged over 200 coyotes and estimate there could be several thousand, and that they are living in every part of the city even around apartment complexes and downtown. They are very secretive here though and a lot of people never see one. I've seen a few in the suburbs and a pair in a city cemetery. I know they're in my neighborhood as I have a friend who saw one about a half mile from me. She walks her Dobes before dawn and one day she saw a coyote just walking down the street nonchalantly.


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## alaman

A full grown coyote will easily kill a grown GSD. One got in a friend's pen that had three grown dobes in it and killed two and chewed up the other.


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## crisp

alaman said:


> A full grown coyote will easily kill a grown GSD. One got in a friend's pen that had three grown dobes in it and killed two and chewed up the other.


Sounds like a bit of a generalization. This depends on the coyote and the GSD. The coyotes around here are rather small. The big males max out at a little over 50 pounds. Not much of a challenge for a 90 pound GSD. But, as posters already mentioned, they do bait and hunt in packs. When the winters are tough and food is scarce, they can bring down an adult deer.


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## Mike K

watch out for these dont mistake it .


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## DCluver33

Mike K said:


> watch out for these dont mistake it .


is that a wolf?!


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## Jgk2383

DCluver33 said:


> is that a wolf?!


 Omg thats what I thought too!? Is it?? Its huge!


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## DCluver33

We have coyotes around my complex, they live in the wash area next to my house. We never ever leave my very weak 16 yr old outside by himself at night we either stand out there with him or we put Dodger out with him because they can easily jump my fence and kill Chopper. I've seen them hanging around my gate at night and sometimes during the day. Back when my friend had her horse a pack of coyotes would stand at the fence staring at her horse trying to figure out how to get in the yard and kill her horse in broad daylight. Her dad put cougar urine around his fence line to help ward they coyotes off as far as I know that worked.


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## DCluver33

Jgk2383 said:


> Omg thats what I thought too!? Is it?? Its huge!


I looks like a wolf it's coat is too bushy to be a coyote. but then again maybe it is?


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## Jessiewessie99

DCluver33 said:


> I looks like a wolf it's coat is too bushy to be a coyote. but then again maybe it is?


Yes its wolf. Looks too big to be a coyote.


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## DCluver33

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Yes its wolf. Looks too big to be a coyote.


that's what I thought it looked way too big for a coyote.


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## KZoppa

DCluver33 said:


> is that a wolf?!


 

.....yes it is! Way too large to be a coyote, even a large male, and the build isnt right for a coyote.

Wolves are my favorite wild animals, quickly followed by tigers. I did a TON of studying wolves up until i graduated high school (3rd grade thru 12th). Thats a beautiful animal!!!! Where were those taken?!


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## KZoppa

Mike K said:


> watch out for these dont mistake it .


 

MY GOD!!! She is GORGEOUS!!! Holy cow what a beautiful animal. LOVE wolves. Big head, healthy plush coat, the muscle.... breathtaking!


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## Ocean

There is a lot of hearsay going around about coyotes. First, coyote attacks on humans, even small children are extremely, extremely rare. Yes, a woman was killed by coyotes in Canada a few years ago but a human, even a child getting attacked or even killed by a coyote is much much less likely statistically than being hit by or get killed by lightning.
Bringing a gun along to protect your dog from coyotes also increases the chances of you shooting your dogs by accident. The average gun toting American is a very poor shot and his actual ability at hitting a target in a pressure situation is much less than his imagination. That's why the police practice constantly.
That story by a poster of a coyote killing 2 Dobes in a pen sounds ludicrous and I bet is hearsay.
It is true that coyotes will not hesitate to kill and eat a cat or a small dog. They are just prey to them.
A big healthy dog being killed by one coyote is almost unheard of. Yes, a coyote pack might attack a big dog but that is also rare.
You have to remember that unless a coyote is starving it would try to avoid fighting a similar or larger sized dog because there is also a good chance the dog will injure the coyote in the fight. Wild animals even predators instinctively avoid fights because there are no vets in the wild! Even a small cut that gets infected can be fatal.
Around me in the country, everyone lives in acreage and there's a 2,000 acre ranch next door. We have several coyote packs and my neighbors let their dogs roam the countryside during the day. Even the small dogs have never been attacked (of course, they are indoors at night). I think the reason they have never been attacked is because the coyotes around here have enough prey to eat. Why risk their life in a fight with a dog if there's enough field mice?
My GSDs are itching to go after coyotes but I never give them the chance of course.


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## Hercules

Well I live in kirkland wa in the suburbs so I don't see coyotes all that often, however my 2 year old lived on a farm and he was the protector or the animals in the neighboring farms. He has a strong prey drive and will generally try to chase and kill anything smaller than him except little children and small dogs. One time I took him out to pee before bed around 11(which I do every night), as soon as we walked out he started growling, barking and pulling me like the world was ending and I noticed he was FIXED on a coyote on our front lawn, he growled,barked and tried to drag me until the voyote ran away far enough that he was no longer on my property. We have never heard from said coyote again. Also a few days ago I was taking him out to pee before bed again, we noticed a family of racoons and again he had the same reaction and he TOTALLY scared away the racoons, I do however take charge when things like this happen, I always have my knife with me when I go out night or day and if I see a wild animal that might pose a potential threat to my boy, I will immediately put myself in between them, I can intimidate the animals into running away, if not I am more than willing to kill them without a second thought to protect my boy. Oorah devil dogs.


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## Dainerra

Ocean said:


> There is a lot of hearsay going around about coyotes. First, coyote attacks on humans, even small children are extremely, extremely rare. Yes, a woman was killed by coyotes in Canada a few years ago but a human, even a child getting attacked or even killed by a coyote is much much less likely statistically than being hit by or get killed by lightning.
> Bringing a gun along to protect your dog from coyotes also increases the chances of you shooting your dogs by accident. The average gun toting American is a very poor shot and his actual ability at hitting a target in a pressure situation is much less than his imagination. That's why the police practice constantly.
> That story by a poster of a coyote killing 2 Dobes in a pen sounds ludicrous and I bet is hearsay.
> It is true that coyotes will not hesitate to kill and eat a cat or a small dog. They are just prey to them.
> A big healthy dog being killed by one coyote is almost unheard of. Yes, a coyote pack might attack a big dog but that is also rare.
> You have to remember that unless a coyote is starving it would try to avoid fighting a similar or larger sized dog because there is also a good chance the dog will injure the coyote in the fight. Wild animals even predators instinctively avoid fights because there are no vets in the wild! Even a small cut that gets infected can be fatal.
> Around me in the country, everyone lives in acreage and there's a 2,000 acre ranch next door. We have several coyote packs and my neighbors let their dogs roam the countryside during the day. Even the small dogs have never been attacked (of course, they are indoors at night). I think the reason they have never been attacked is because the coyotes around here have enough prey to eat. Why risk their life in a fight with a dog if there's enough field mice?
> My GSDs are itching to go after coyotes but I never give them the chance of course.


I think a lot of this depends on where you are.... 

In my area, your average gun-toting person is a WAY better shot than the cops. The cops qualify once a year, spending about 4 hours. The average person shoots several times a week, keeping in practice for hunting season.

We see coyotes here during the day a lot. They will not hesitate to gang up on a bigger dog, seeing it as encroaching on the pack turf. I know people whose cats and small dogs have disappeared in broad daylight. I even know someone whose small dog was taken off their front porch, door open, dog chained up, by a coyote (or coydog) in the middle of the afternoon. The people were less than 5 feet away. 
It's not uncommon there to find coyotes sitting in your yard watching you. Game wardens warn against letting small children out of your sight, even for a second. Coyotes have been seen stalking them on more than one occasion.


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## Uniballer

Did y'all see this: Coyote Shot After Attacks

Just more fuel on the fire...


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## LaRen616

Chicagocanine said:


> I live in Chicago and coyotes are actually very common in the city here. A few years ago there was a study on urban coyotes in Chicago, and they caught and tagged over 200 coyotes and estimate there could be several thousand, and that they are living in every part of the city even around apartment complexes and downtown. They are very secretive here though and a lot of people never see one. I've seen a few in the suburbs and a pair in a city cemetery. I know they're in my neighborhood as I have a friend who saw one about a half mile from me. She walks her Dobes before dawn and one day she saw a coyote just walking down the street nonchalantly.


I am about an hour away from Chicago and I heard coyotes the last 2 nights around my neighborhood. I do not have a completely fenced in yard, the backyard is fenced in 3/4 and it is small, the front yard will be the dogs main yard once that is fenced in because it is huge. When I take my dogs out at night Sinister is never on a leash but he has never left the yard unless I say it is ok, Rogue is always on leash, I am almost positive that he would take off if he wasn't on a leash. I'm always on the look out when I am outside, I am protected on 3 sides with a fence so I watch the open side like a hawk. I am always ready to drop kick whatever animal comes near my dogs. aranoid:


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## Gwenhwyfair

Good post. Agree about the gun, I don't think most people who are walking or are hiking with a rifle, usually carry a hand gun, coupled with a fast moving target......

Bear attack spray probably is best for coyotes and stray packs of domestic dogs. The downside is back spray due to wind, so practice and caution is advised but a lot of seasoned back country hunters carry it.

I've seen coyotes in my suburban neighborhood. Usually if they go after a domestic animal it will be cats (we aren't allowed to have chickens and such because of the HOA). I followed one down my street one night and it was nervous about my car following it but seemed pretty comfortable around the houses and street lights.

I have more problems with aggressive domestic dogs when walking, stray dogs, unrestrained territorial dogs and domestic dogs packing up then coyotes in my area. Either way, coyote or stray dog, it's going to get a schnooze full of pepper spray if it gets too close or shows signs of aggrssion to me or my dogs.



Ocean said:


> There is a lot of hearsay going around about coyotes. First, coyote attacks on humans, even small children are extremely, extremely rare. Yes, a woman was killed by coyotes in Canada a few years ago but a human, even a child getting attacked or even killed by a coyote is much much less likely statistically than being hit by or get killed by lightning.
> Bringing a gun along to protect your dog from coyotes also increases the chances of you shooting your dogs by accident. The average gun toting American is a very poor shot and his actual ability at hitting a target in a pressure situation is much less than his imagination. That's why the police practice constantly.
> That story by a poster of a coyote killing 2 Dobes in a pen sounds ludicrous and I bet is hearsay.
> It is true that coyotes will not hesitate to kill and eat a cat or a small dog. They are just prey to them.
> A big healthy dog being killed by one coyote is almost unheard of. Yes, a coyote pack might attack a big dog but that is also rare.
> You have to remember that unless a coyote is starving it would try to avoid fighting a similar or larger sized dog because there is also a good chance the dog will injure the coyote in the fight. Wild animals even predators instinctively avoid fights because there are no vets in the wild! Even a small cut that gets infected can be fatal.
> Around me in the country, everyone lives in acreage and there's a 2,000 acre ranch next door. We have several coyote packs and my neighbors let their dogs roam the countryside during the day. Even the small dogs have never been attacked (of course, they are indoors at night). I think the reason they have never been attacked is because the coyotes around here have enough prey to eat. Why risk their life in a fight with a dog if there's enough field mice?
> My GSDs are itching to go after coyotes but I never give them the chance of course.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Uniballer said:


> Did y'all see this: Coyote Shot After Attacks
> 
> Just more fuel on the fire...


 
Just one note to add, I've seen some crazy looking 'coyotes'. A women claimed a coyote was trying to get her dogs. A local critter-gitter trapped it and it was a clearly marked black and white like a border collie, dog.

The critter-gitter guy (who seemed to be a character) was quite convinced it was a coyote and the news reporter reported it as such. Moral of the story, sometimes it's domestic dogs attacking and being misidentified as coyotes......


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## Mike K

KZoppa said:


> .....yes it is! Way too large to be a coyote, even a large male, and the build isnt right for a coyote.
> 
> Wolves are my favorite wild animals, quickly followed by tigers. I did a TON of studying wolves up until i graduated high school (3rd grade thru 12th). Thats a beautiful animal!!!! Where were those taken?!


 Yes a wolf , Picture Taken in Idaho story to go with it too:

The paragraph below is a portion from an e-mail from a good fishin/huntin buddy of mine. His wife took these pics just after the incident occured in their front yard.


"Here he is. My wife had just gotten into the house with Gillian (my daughter you met on the boat), when a couple of minutes later she heard some commotion outside the front door. She opens the door and our dog is laying on his back against the door with this wolf standing 6' away from her staring into the house. The dog had saliva stringers all over his back and a cut on his patooty. Lucky to be alive. Two dogs were confirmed wolf killed in our neighborhood this spring.


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## EJQ

Just the other day I was standing at the kitchen table when, on the front lawn, I saw what I thought was a perfectly matched pair of GSDs. NOT! They were two Coyotes just ambling across the lawn. B'EL was on the front porch and quickly took after them. They were not at all interested in any close encounters and took off like rockets! Here's a bit of info that I got from the internet.
_Coordinated group hunting among coyote packs is rare because of their ability to survive on small mammals such as gophers. When coyotes do attack large prey they form a coordinated hunting group and target the weak or old individuals. In addition, coyote packs have been observed to collaborate in order to protect and defend a valuable resource from intruders. Due to the fact that coyotes depend so heavily on small mammals for much of their food source they have developed an efficient solitary hunting method. Although coyotes have a highly developed solitary hunting method they only make a successful kills 10% to 50% of the time._


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## Lilie

My neighbor to my right has a large pond. My neighbor to my left, my pasture and then my neighbor to my right had a perfect path that went through the back of our pastures all the way to the pond. 

My neighbor with the pond has chickens and was worried as to what it could be causing the path. A critter cam verified it was at least two coyotes that would travel through out back pastures at least once a day to the pond. This frightened our neighbors who wanted them shot and/or trapped. As the coyotes hadn't ventured up to his chicken coop I asked if he would wait and see if we could use my dogs to drive them off. He agreed. 

Every afternoon, about and hour before it got dark I would walk my boys (GSD & Golden) along the path. They would urinate along the path, sometimes even pooping as well. We did this for two weeks and then utilized the critter cams again. The Coyotes were gone. 

I still go out there at least once a week and walk along the fence line, as the path has long since grown over.


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## crisp

Thats pretty cool Lilie. I wish that would work on our suburban coyotes. They could care less who or what is defecating. I think they see the houses that border any forest preserve as their turf and mosey on through even before I had a chance to 'clean up'. They have gotten so used to people and civilization that I see them far away from the woods, deep in to commercial and residential areas. Last winter was driving behind the mall to avoid traffic and one was hanging out by a dumpster, a couple of miles from the forest preserve.


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## KZoppa

Mike K said:


> Yes a wolf , Picture Taken in Idaho story to go with it too:
> 
> The paragraph below is a portion from an e-mail from a good fishin/huntin buddy of mine. His wife took these pics just after the incident occured in their front yard.
> 
> 
> "Here he is. My wife had just gotten into the house with Gillian (my daughter you met on the boat), when a couple of minutes later she heard some commotion outside the front door. She opens the door and our dog is laying on his back against the door with this wolf standing 6' away from her staring into the house. The dog had saliva stringers all over his back and a cut on his patooty. Lucky to be alive. Two dogs were confirmed wolf killed in our neighborhood this spring.


 

that sucks about the dogs but it still a beautiful animal. crazy that someone was able to get those pictures!


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## brenda.dunn

Coyotes killed my brothers dog last November. My brother found him ripped in half it was horrible. Barney was a 13 year old retriever/husky mix. We called the MNR becasue my brother thought maybe it was a large cat that killed him but the officer told him it was at least five coyotes. We have since gotten our gun licenses and have managed to kill only two, they are very elusive.


----------



## paulag1955

EJQ said:


> Coordinated group hunting among coyote packs is rare because of their ability to survive on small mammals such as gophers. When coyotes do attack large prey they form a coordinated hunting group and target the weak or old individuals. In addition, coyote packs have been observed to collaborate in order to protect and defend a valuable resource from intruders. Due to the fact that coyotes depend so heavily on small mammals for much of their food source *they have developed an efficient solitary hunting method. *Although coyotes have a highly developed solitary hunting method they only make a successful kills 10% to 50% of the time.


You could not say this with a straight face if you'd seen their bumbling attempts to catch squirrels in my back yard.


----------



## AbbyK9

> There is a lot of hearsay going around about coyotes. First, coyote attacks on humans, even small children are extremely, extremely rare.


Really? This one, reported just today, attacked two children, a father, a trapper, and a police officer before it was shot.
Rye Brook, NY police shoot, kill coyote after series of attacks | dailyrecord.com | Daily Record

Just in my state (NY) this isn't the first incident of a coyote attacking people that has made the news this year. Just saying ... maybe it's different in other parts of the country. And we've certainly seen them on my neighbor's property - right in the barn, killing sheep.



> Bringing a gun along to protect your dog from coyotes also increases the chances of you shooting your dogs by accident. The average gun toting American is a very poor shot and his actual ability at hitting a target in a pressure situation is much less than his imagination. That's why the police practice constantly.


I think you're over-generalizing. In many parts of the country where people carry because wild animals are a threat to them, their pets, and their livestock, people are excellent shots. I'm a very good shot and feel safe carrying. 

Considering some of the bad shooting (and just downright dangerous firearms handling) I've seen from police officers, I'm not necessarily convinced that they're better shots than I, nor am I convinced that they train/practice more than I do.


----------



## Lucy Dog

AbbyK9 said:


> Really? This one, reported just today, attacked two children, a father, a trapper, and a police officer before it was shot.
> Rye Brook, NY police shoot, kill coyote after series of attacks | dailyrecord.com | Daily Record


Yeah I was just about to post this article too. Rye Brook is about a 5 minute drive from my house. There has been a lot of close calls with coyotes and people around here lately. 

Here are a couple other ones involving coyotes and people within the last couple months. It's been a growing trend around here lately.

Road runner gets best of wily coyote - Greenwich Real Time - Greenwich Time

Girl attacked by coyote - GreenwichTime


----------



## KZoppa

okay. generally, the only time animals tend to attack people is because they're sick or starving or see a child because its an easy target. Animals dont want to risk getting themselves hurt as mentioned previously a couple pages back because if they get hurt, that could kill them or cripple them so they're unable to survive. It sounds to me like NY is having issues with coyotes. Have ANY of these animals been tested for rabies?


----------



## Lucy Dog

KZoppa said:


> Have ANY of these animals been tested for rabies?


In the most recent article where the coyotes were actually killed, the article mentioned that they will be tested, but no results yet.

In the articles i posted, the animals were never caught so there is no way of knowing if they had rabies or not.


----------



## codmaster

AbbyK9 said:


> Really? This one, reported just today, attacked two children, a father, a trapper, and a police officer before it was shot.
> Rye Brook, NY police shoot, kill coyote after series of attacks | dailyrecord.com | Daily Record
> 
> Just in my state (NY) this isn't the first incident of a coyote attacking people that has made the news this year. Just saying ... maybe it's different in other parts of the country. And we've certainly seen them on my neighbor's property - right in the barn, killing sheep.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're over-generalizing. In many parts of the country where people carry because wild animals are a threat to them, their pets, and their livestock, people are excellent shots. I'm a very good shot and feel safe carrying.
> 
> Considering some of the bad shooting (and just downright dangerous firearms handling) I've seen from police officers, I'm not necessarily convinced that they're better shots than I, nor am I convinced that they train/practice more than I do.


Probably even better than other trained professionals like say Seals also, huh?


----------



## EJQ

Well, like I said, I got it from an article on the internet so my face is still pretty straight.


----------



## AbbyK9

> Probably even better than other trained professionals like say Seals also, huh?


Well, my dear ... 

The reason I commented on law enforcement officers' shooting is that I used to shoot at a range where many of them practiced when I lived in Virginia. We had various local departments, state troopers, department of energy, etc. who practiced there. A lot of the local police and troopers were very bad shots and did some very unsafe weapons handling. 

We had one sheriff's deputy shoot himself in the buttocks right there on the range. So I think it's a pretty good bet to say that I'm a better shot AND spend more time training with my firearms than they do.

I don't know what the SEALs marksmanship requirements are, but I can tell you I've gone to the range with various military units when I was still in, and a lot of people have surprisingly poor marksmanship skills. Even in units such as 10th Mountain or 82nd. You'd be surprised.

Then again, I literally lived behind a range when I lived in VA and shot very frequently. Out there in NY I have my own 100 meter range behind the house (I live out in the country). So I probably shoot more often than most people. I used to do 3-Gun but don't anymore due to NY's stupid pistol permits (I don't pay taxes in NY - so they won't give me one).


----------



## paulag1955

EJQ said:


> Well, like I said, I got it from an article on the internet so my face is still pretty straight.


Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean you specifically; I meant a generic you. I have a video around here somewhere of a coyote hunting squirrels in my backyard. It's like a bloopers reel.


----------



## Ocean

AbbyK9 said:


> Really? This one, reported just today, attacked two children, a father, a trapper, and a police officer before it was shot.
> Rye Brook, NY police shoot, kill coyote after series of attacks | dailyrecord.com | Daily Record
> 
> I think you're over-generalizing. In many parts of the country where people carry because wild animals are a threat to them, their pets, and their livestock, people are excellent shots. I'm a very good shot and feel safe carrying.
> 
> Considering some of the bad shooting (and just downright dangerous firearms handling) I've seen from police officers, I'm not necessarily convinced that they're better shots than I, nor am I convinced that they train/practice more than I do.


If you look at the statistics, a lot more people get hit or killed by lightning (or by dogs) than get attacked or killed by coyotes. Why is it that a coyote attack is considered newsworthy? Because it is very very rare especially considering the prevalence of coyotes in highly populated urban areas. The incidence of dog attacks and even kills on humans are a lot higher.

I am not disputing that coyotes like any predators that have to live on their own are opportunistic. They will go after a cat or a small dog, or as a pack after a sick or very old medium/big dog given the chance. However, I would not worry about a healthy GSD. Predators survive because they are not stupid. There are typically hundreds of easier prey than a GSD because thank goodness our GSDs are not pansies either.

Well, it sounds like you are NOT the average gun toting person. Good for you.


----------



## Jessiewessie99

Coyotes will more than likely go after smaller weaker prey than huge prey when in the city. They know we are there, just going after the small and weak. Don't want to be prey? Don't act like it.

Alot of the coyote attacks and incidents depends alot on where you live.

Thats my take on it.


----------



## KZoppa

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Coyotes will more than likely go after smaller weaker prey than huge prey when in the city. They know we are there, just going after the small and weak. Don't want to be prey? Don't act like it.
> 
> Alot of the coyote attacks and incidents depends alot on where you live.
> 
> Thats my take on it.


 
agreed


----------



## codmaster

AbbyK9 said:


> Well, my dear ...
> 
> The reason I commented on law enforcement officers' shooting is that I used to shoot at a range where many of them practiced when I lived in Virginia. We had various local departments, state troopers, department of energy, etc. who practiced there. A lot of the local police and troopers were very bad shots and did some very unsafe weapons handling.
> 
> We had one sheriff's deputy shoot himself in the buttocks right there on the range. So I think it's a pretty good bet to say that I'm a better shot AND spend more time training with my firearms than they do.
> 
> I don't know what the SEALs marksmanship requirements are, but I can tell you I've gone to the range with various military units when I was still in, and a lot of people have surprisingly poor marksmanship skills. Even in units such as 10th Mountain or 82nd. You'd be surprised.
> 
> *When did I say military? I think that you might be surprised at the Seals! And I guess we can guess what military units that you were in. So we can assume that you were in the 10th and the 82nd? *
> 
> Then again, I literally lived behind a range when I lived in VA and shot very frequently. Out there in NY I have my own 100 meter range behind the house (I live out in the country). So I probably shoot more often than most people. I used to do 3-Gun but don't anymore due to NY's stupid pistol permits (I don't pay taxes in NY - so they won't give me one).


*Shooting at a target is one thing, it is a VERY different thing to shoot something that might shoot (or bite) back.*

It is very impressive to know that you have your own range and can evidently shoot better than your local cops (or maybe just says something about your local cops!).


----------



## AbbyK9

> *When did I say military? I think that you might be surprised at the Seals! And I guess we can guess what military units that you were in. So we can assume that you were in the 10th and the 82nd? *


Sorry ... I must have missed the part where the SEALs are no longer part of the armed forces. My bad. You are certainly free to assume anything you would like to assume. You are also very likely to be wrong.



> *Shooting at a target is one thing, it is a VERY different thing to shoot something that might shoot (or bite) back.*


Yes, thank you, I absolutely needed you to point this out for me. I've certainly never experienced having to shoot at something that would shoot back. I can assume that you spend a lot of time shooting at things that shoot back, then? Do you spend a lot of time at the range, working on point fire and other instinctive shooting methods, too? Can't really do one without the other ... well, at least not if you want to be the one coming out alive.

And yeah, I am not impressed with my local law enforcement, such as it is. I believe our town has on the order of five officers. Most calls are responded to by state troopers whose barracks are at the edge of the town in which I live.


----------



## codmaster

AbbyK9 said:


> Sorry ... I must have missed the part where the SEALs are no longer part of the armed forces. My bad. *That's ok!* You are certainly free to assume anything you would like to assume. *???????*
> You are also very likely to be wrong.
> 
> *Guess you did miss something - don't worry about it!*
> 
> 
> Yes, thank you, I absolutely needed you to point this out for me. *You are entirely welcome! Glad to be of assistance! *I've certainly never experienced having to shoot at something that would shoot back. I can assume that you spend a lot of time shooting at things that shoot back, then? *Used to!* Do you spend a lot of time at the range, working on point fire and other instinctive shooting methods, too? Can't really do one without the other ... well, at least not if you want to be the one coming out alive.
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, I am not impressed with my local law enforcement, such as it is. I believe our town has on the order of five officers. Most calls are responded to by state troopers whose barracks are at the edge of the town in which I live.


*Suppose that you are also much more capable than the state troopers, as well as the other military and local cops and also any Seals as well!*

*Have a nice day! Enough.*


----------



## AbbyK9

> *Suppose that you are also much more capable than the state troopers, as well as the other military and local cops and also any Seals as well!*


When it comes to protecting myself and my dogs, without a doubt. Like they say, when seconds count, police are only minutes away.

I'm still not quite understanding why you felt the need to take this thread off on a tangent about firearms and using them. My comment was a response to comments further above in the thread where people suggested that a firearm is not a solution for protecting oneself from coyotes and that most people don't have the skill to do so safely. I pointed out that that isn't necessarily true. Not sure how or why you felt your need to join that conversation.

I have noticed that you enjoy taking threads off-topic and making disparaging remarks against other board members, whether they're logical or not. It's certainly not against the board rules, so if this makes you happy, go on. Eventually, people will stop feeding.


----------



## codmaster

AbbyK9 said:


> When it comes to protecting myself and my dogs, without a doubt. Like they say, when seconds count, police are only minutes away. *Another person who likes the police, I see.*
> 
> I'm still not quite understanding why you felt the need to take this thread off on a tangent about firearms and using them. My comment was a response to comments further above in the thread where people suggested that a firearm is not a solution for protecting oneself from coyotes and that most people don't have the skill to do so safely. I pointed out that that isn't necessarily true. Not sure how or why you felt your need to join that conversation. *You know, I am not sure except maybe I just didn't agree with what you were trying to express. I really hope that is ok. You see, I thought it was a public forum and if you wanted to keep it private that you would use email and not a public forum to express your opinions. Maybe we should both drop it? What do you think?*
> 
> I have noticed that you enjoy taking threads off-topic and making disparaging remarks against other board members, whether they're logical or not. It's certainly not against the board rules, so if this makes you happy, go on. Eventually, people will stop feeding.


*Did I disparage you? Please let me know where and how and I will apologize. And certainly let me know what I introduced as an off topic (whatever the original topic was?) item. But especially why don't we drop this thread as it is getting most boring to me so it must be to others. Willing to stop now? I am!*


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## LaRen616

:rolleyes2:


----------



## AbbyK9

My sentiments exactly, LaRen.  'Tis entertaining, though.


----------



## Chicagocanine

opcorn:I brought popcorn!


----------



## LaRen616

Chicagocanine said:


> opcorn:I brought popcorn!


 :rofl:


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## Jessiewessie99

I made brownies.XD


----------



## Dainerra

The "average joes" that I know that carry weapons shoot at least 1 day a week. They go skeet shooting, hit the rifle range, or just have friendly wagers shooting cans off of stumps in the woods. They hunt squirrels, doves, deer, rabbits, coyotes, groundhogs, etc etc. 

Many police depts require only 1 day of shooting a year. That's a couple of hours shooting at a paper target, just enough to get a passing score. Sure, the GOOD cops will practice a bit more than that on their own, but it's not uncommon to meet a cop that hasn't used his weapon more than a couple times in his entire career!

True story, cops here got in a gunfight with a suspect a few years ago (someone who had shot a cop just hours before). A dozen cops emptied their clips and only a handful of bullets hit the parked car that was 20 yards away.


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## ChristenHolden

May I have some popcorn and brownies plese? .


----------



## Chicagocanine

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I made brownies.XD


Are they "special" brownies? 




ChristenHolden said:


> May I have some popcorn and brownies plese? .


Yes, here you go! opcorn:


----------



## Jax's Mom

Caledon said:


> Although I've never seen one around here in Mississuaga, I've been told that there are certain areas in which they roam.


They're ALL OVER downtown... If you go down by the lake at Humber River any morning before 7am, you're guaranteed to run into one. 
I haven't heard of them giving anyone any trouble other than following them around... They're actually quite beautiful


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## Jessiewessie99

Chicagocanine said:


> *Are they "special" brownies?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, here you go! opcorn:


Yes they are! Here you go! *puts our a plate of fresh "special" brownies.*:wild:


----------



## Jessiewessie99

ChristenHolden said:


> May I have some popcorn and brownies plese? .


Yes you can! *Holds out plate of special brownies*


----------



## sagelfn

Jax's Mom said:


> They're actually quite beautiful


agreed! I love coyotes

My parents backyard is part of a nature preserve. There are a ton of coyotes here and I have seen one walk by barely 20ft from the house. They haven't attacked any people or pets(I would guess the chances of getting bitten by a stray/loose dog are higher than getting bitten by a coyote) In the winter I have seen a few in town and earlier this spring when their area was flooded.

I always err on the side of caution. They are wild animals. Never know if one is starving, sick, has babies, etc... I think if you respect that they are wild animals and treat them as such you'll be safe, I don't trust my dog to meet strange dogs (even little ones) running to us off leash...For sure not going to let my dog out of site around coyotes.


----------



## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Yes you can! *Holds out plate of special brownies*


Please don't tell me they're gone already... XD


----------



## Dennq

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Yes they are! Here you go! *puts our a plate of fresh "special" brownies.*:wild:


 
How about a pizza with special mushrooms???????:hammer:


----------



## Jessiewessie99

Dennq said:


> How about a pizza with special mushrooms???????:hammer:


 

Yes there are still brownies availble.lol


----------



## DCluver33

did someone say brownies?? I want one!!!!


----------



## Jessiewessie99

*puts out fresh batch of brownies*xd


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## ChristenHolden

MMMMM yummy I love specal brownies. And pop corn. opcorn:


----------



## Jgk2383

Just saw this in my local news... yikes!

Rabies found in NY coyote after attacks on humans


----------



## PupperLove

Jessiewessie99 said:


> *Don't want to be prey? Don't act like it.*
> 
> Thats my take on it.


If those brownies really are special you're gonna laugh pretty hard at this one..

When we were younger, my sister and I would 'play dogs' or 'wolves', and run around on our grandparent's 70 acres like dogs- barking and howling! I can't believe we didn't get attacked by a wild animal thinking we were some sort of prey. We were really fast too, LOL. I mean we could really book it on all 4's!! I don't think I can even run that fast on two legs now.

Then again if I was a wild animal and saw that I would probably be pretty freaked out and take off in the opposite direction. :wild: But seriously, I can't believe we wern't attacked by something, and we never even thought about that.

There have been black bear, cougars, wolves, and I heard a pack of coyotes howling within the past few years. But 15 years ago, nobody really heard of that around here. I think the animals are migrating!


----------



## Jessiewessie99

PupperLove said:


> If those brownies really are special you're gonna laugh pretty hard at this one..
> 
> When we were younger, my sister and I would 'play dogs' or 'wolves', and run around on our grandparent's 70 acres like dogs- barking and howling! I can't believe we didn't get attacked by a wild animal thinking we were some sort of prey. We were really fast too, LOL. I mean we could really book it on all 4's!! I don't think I can even run that fast on two legs now.
> 
> Then again if I was a wild animal and saw that I would probably be pretty freaked out and take off in the opposite direction. :wild: But seriously, I can't believe we wern't attacked by something, and we never even thought about that.
> 
> There have been black bear, cougars, wolves, and I heard a pack of coyotes howling within the past few years. But 15 years ago, nobody really heard of that around here. I think the animals are migrating!


They aren't migrating, they are just getting smarter.


----------



## PupperLove

Jgk2383 said:


> Just saw this in my local news... yikes!
> 
> Rabies found in NY coyote after attacks on humans


OK. That is just terrifying. Getting attacked my a rabid animal is one of my greatest fears....you know, everyone has something that really scares them, and for me, that's at the top of my list!

We were camping about a month ago, and around the camp fire we were talking about rabid ***** and all of a sudden there was a SCREAM, RIGHT next to us....turns out it was an owl _above_ us in the tree...but talk about almost having a heart attack...


----------



## DharmasMom

Jgk2383 said:


> Just saw this in my local news... yikes!
> 
> Rabies found in NY coyote after attacks on humans



I kinda figured she was going to be rabid after reading the article. It was just to unusual for her to have attacked multiple humans and she was found holding the dead pup's head in her mouth. Oh yeah, she was rabid. Hopefully everyone who had any contact with her at all was started right away on the shots and they will all be ok.


----------



## selzer

we raccoon bait each year for rabies. But every year there is usually a skunk or raccoon found with it. So it is scarey. 

What was that idiot with the camera doing letting his dog out there play with a wild animal??? Hey, get me the camera and look what ole Lulu is doin'. Uhm, can you say, Lepto, or any other number of things wild animals can pass to their domestic cousins. 

Whatever.

I have a gun to use in the case of a sick or injured critter coming onto my place. I am a better shot with my bow, but I like that the gun makes more noise. 

I do not know how great you have to be with a shot gun anyway. I am not using slugs. If I point and shoot at a coyote, the problem will be solved one way or the other. 

I have seen a red fox, a grey fox, and a coyote one time. But then, I live in the country where people hunt, and deer are sneaky and stay hidden. My sister who lives in the city has coyotes, raccoons, skunks, and herds of deer using her place so that she has to be vigilent when letting the girls go out and play. 

Jessie keep those brownies coming.


----------



## KZoppa

selzer said:


> we raccoon bait each year for rabies. But every year there is usually a skunk or raccoon found with it. So it is scarey.
> 
> What was that idiot with the camera doing letting his dog out there play with a wild animal??? Hey, get me the camera and look what ole Lulu is doin'. Uhm, can you say, Lepto, or any other number of things wild animals can pass to their domestic cousins.
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> I have a gun to use in the case of a sick or injured critter coming onto my place. I am a better shot with my bow, but I like that the gun makes more noise.
> 
> I do not know how great you have to be with a shot gun anyway. I am not using slugs. If I point and shoot at a coyote, the problem will be solved one way or the other.
> 
> I have seen a red fox, a grey fox, and a coyote one time. But then, I live in the country where people hunt, and deer are sneaky and stay hidden. My sister who lives in the city has coyotes, raccoons, skunks, and herds of deer using her place so that she has to be vigilent when letting the girls go out and play.
> 
> Jessie keep those brownies coming.


 

i agree! gimme some brownies!!! after the day i've had.... a perk would be nice. lol. 

we live in base housing pretty close to the woods. i'm constantly seeing deer, raccoons, skunks, possums. You name it and its probably traipsed through. I let the dogs out the other night for a potty break and i hear this crazy barking. Its being a territorial someone is trespassing bark i went to the backyard with my flashlight and baseball bat just in time to see this white butt flying over the fence. Apparently the deer decided my yard was a great place to eat and hopped my fence. I was pretty amused and kinda concerned since we clean up the yard once a week and it clearly has predator scent all over it. Most animals tend to avoid predators. I think the animals around here are just so used to people and dogs, they dont care anymore but its still unnerving. I think the animals are finally taking back what was theirs first. course i may have just lost my mind recently but thats my take. They're taking back what was theirs to start with hence all the additional sightings.


----------



## selzer

People cam here over 200 years ago. Animals were here. Some of those speicies are pretty much gone. We are an animal too. Our species migrated here, just like killer bees are migrating northwards. 

I wish that people would not feel so guilty for existing -- NO OTHER ANIMAL feels guilty they exist. Do you think that with all the fodder that elephants eat, that other species are not driven out of existance where they live? Do they feel guilty for this? No. I think we should cut it out. 

there is no deer alive today who remembers when there were no humans. If we do want to humanize them, they would be thinking that they are encroaching on our settlements, not the other way around. 

if you have a terrible desire to feel guilty for being born human, then I feel sorry for you.


----------



## Jessiewessie99

I am going to start chargingfor these brownies.lol


----------



## KZoppa

selzer said:


> People cam here over 200 years ago. Animals were here. Some of those speicies are pretty much gone. We are an animal too. Our species migrated here, just like killer bees are migrating northwards.
> 
> I wish that people would not feel so guilty for existing -- NO OTHER ANIMAL feels guilty they exist. Do you think that with all the fodder that elephants eat, that other species are not driven out of existance where they live? Do they feel guilty for this? No. I think we should cut it out.
> 
> there is no deer alive today who remembers when there were no humans. If we do want to humanize them, they would be thinking that they are encroaching on our settlements, not the other way around.
> 
> if you have a terrible desire to feel guilty for being born human, then I feel sorry for you.


 
i'm not saying i feel quilty for existing. I'm just saying that the animals are coming more into heavily populated areas far more often and the animals species in general, excluding the human race, were here before we were. These kind of stories and encounters might help to make people more observant. I'm not saying it'll make for more tolerant people because there will always be those who are adamently against changing or doing anything differently. People in Alaska have learned to live with the moose population raiding the towns/cities because they simply havent figured out a definite way to keep them out. I dont feel quilty for being here. I just feel that people should be more observant. It would not only help lessen attackes but it would help in every day life as well.


----------



## sagelfn

I think we are wasteful. We could coexist with animals well but we choose not too. Does my city need another hotel? no. Do they need a new shopping plaza? no. Do they need another movie theater? no. Do we need another golf course? NO. There are countless empty buildings here and instead of renovating them they build new ones and take up more space to do so.

I think we have responsibility to ensure these animals aren't wiped out. Yes I know deer, *****, coyotes, etc.. can and have thrived in urban areas but they are not meant to and they should not have to. Animals are being forced to move to different areas due to our over population and climate changes caused by us. Then you get dangerous situations where animals like coyotes and moose are used to being around humans. They do not have natural fear of us and that is a problem.

I do not feel sorry or hate an animal for trying to survive. I do dislike people who don't respect nature and assume that a wild animal should know better than to mess with people, their homes and their pets/livestock.


----------



## Jessiewessie99

Thats why I leave nature alone and it leaves me alone.


----------



## KZoppa

i'm a nature!!!! get it off!!! kinda person. lol. but i enjoy camping and my only real issue is bugs, snakes, frogs, lizards. we dont get along. I agree that we are wasteful. Animals not having that natural fear is a problem. As a population, we have trouble coexisting with each other so why would coexisting with other animals be any different? I may live on base with wooded areas all around and i take my dogs on walks at night but i'm very watchful of other animals. We've had a smaller herd of deer follow us almost straight home when i was walking Zena one night. She was NOT a happy dog. She's very protective and as long as they kept a decent distance she was okay and not growling and barking but she was still on edge. The deer around here are too comfortable with people. I'm actually worried about our move to maryland.


----------



## Miikkas mom

sagelfn said:


> I think we are wasteful. We could coexist with animals well but we choose not too. Does my city need another hotel? no. Do they need a new shopping plaza? no. Do they need another movie theater? no. Do we need another golf course? NO. There are countless empty buildings here and instead of renovating them they build new ones and take up more space to do so.
> 
> I think we have responsibility to ensure these animals aren't wiped out. Yes I know deer, *****, coyotes, etc.. can and have thrived in urban areas but they are not meant to and they should not have to. Animals are being forced to move to different areas due to our over population and climate changes caused by us. Then you get dangerous situations where animals like coyotes and moose are used to being around humans. They do not have natural fear of us and that is a problem.
> 
> I do not feel sorry or hate an animal for trying to survive. I do dislike people who don't respect nature and assume that a wild animal should know better than to mess with people, their homes and their pets/livestock.


:thumbup:


----------



## LaRen616

sagelfn said:


> I think we are wasteful. We could coexist with animals well but we choose not too. Does my city need another hotel? no. Do they need a new shopping plaza? no. Do they need another movie theater? no. Do we need another golf course? NO. There are countless empty buildings here and instead of renovating them they build new ones and take up more space to do so.
> 
> I think we have responsibility to ensure these animals aren't wiped out. Yes I know deer, *****, coyotes, etc.. can and have thrived in urban areas but they are not meant to and they should not have to. Animals are being forced to move to different areas due to our over population and climate changes caused by us. Then you get dangerous situations where animals like coyotes and moose are used to being around humans. They do not have natural fear of us and that is a problem.
> 
> I do not feel sorry or hate an animal for trying to survive. I do dislike people who don't respect nature and assume that a wild animal should know better than to mess with people, their homes and their pets/livestock.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## selzer

What is funny is that we out where there is land, farms, woodlands, are not seeing the increase in numbers of critters. People in very populated areas are. There are huge herds of deer in my sister's yard, and she lives in a heavily populated area. I have never seen a deer in mine, but I see one or two each year on my road. 

It is rare for me to see wildlife. It is normal for her. *****, Coyotes, Deer, skunks. 

why are the critters coming into more populated areas??? I don't know. I think that the lack of hunting there have allowed their populations to get out of control. There are no wolves or mountain lions who would be natural predators. 

If the populations of deer and other critters become out of control due to lack of natural predators, and hunting, they will find it increasingly difficult to survive the harsh winters.


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## counter

Dennq said:


> Anyone else ever heard of coyotes attacking large dogs?
> 
> I know coyotes will hunt cats and little dogs.


*Here's our story of Nara (our GSD) versus a pack of coyotes that happened over the summer this year:*

I take my dogs walking, running and biking in the cemetery near our house. After 5pm, they close the gates to car traffic, so I have the wide roads all to myself and my dogs. Nara has great recall, so I let her run off lead. Well, one night I got started late on a bike ride, and I took Paw Paw and Nara. Paw Paw, being a husky, had to stay on lead attached to my bike, and Nara ran alongside us off lead. It was around dusk at 9pm when I saw a silhouette moving across the street up ahead. Paw Paw saw it too, and he dug into the hard street and started pulling harder than he ever had before. He pulled so hard, that he knocked me off my bike and started dragging the bike down the street. I got up, got him to stop before he damaged my mountain bike, and went up ahead with Nara to see what it was. The way it was bouncing and moving back and forth, it reminded me of a deer. When I saw how small it was in the distance, I thought it must be a baby deer. I knew Nara could never catch a deer, so I sent her after it for "bonus" exercise. I was going to let her run out a bit and then recall her so she could get an extra run/sprint in before we headed home.

Nara took off running toward a big evergreen tree barking like crazy. The silhouette "baby deer" ran around the right side of the tree, followed by Nara. They both ran out of sight. The next thing I saw was Nara running back at me from the left side with THREE "baby deer" chasing her down from behind (it seriously looked like something out of an old school cartoon). She was yelping for help as these fearless deer were only feet behind her. Nara came to my side and instantly turned around and put herself in a sit/stay at my feet. Her yelps seemed more of requests for reinforcements than actual fear, which makes sense because she came back to me and now, with backup, was ready to rush after them again.

It was at this point that I realized the deer were actually coyotes. I've never seen a coyote other than on TV, so I was awestruck. I also couldn't believe how a 90 lb GSD was not enough to scare them off. They were small compared to Nara, but they had strength in numbers I guess. Before I could figure out what to do next, I heard a strange sound coming from behind me. Paw Paw, who was still attached on lead to my heavy mountain bike, heard all of the commotion and realized (maybe) that Nara's barks were requesting reinforcements, so he started dragging my bike the rest of the way down the road and up over the curb to meet up with us. Now it was 3 on 3. I disconnected Paw Paw from my bike and got a good hold on his lead. I wanted a closer look at these coyotes, since I may never get to see one again in my life. My dogs and I started jogging towards them to let them know that we were not scared, as I noticed they kept their distance at about 15-20 feet from us no matter what direction we travelled or how close we tried to come to them.

Well, as I moved across one of the moss-covered, slippery, wet cemetery roads, Paw Paw kicked it into high gear as to say "let's go KILL them all!" He knocked me down and dragged me across the entire street until my body slammed up against the curb, which was the only way I could stop him from running faster and harder after the coyotes. After getting knocked off the bike, and now getting my wrist snapped against the curb and my knee and elbow all busted up and bleeding, I just laid on the ground realizing that the chase was over. It was bad enough that I pulled out my cell phone to call my wife to come help me out, but she didn't answer the phone. I didn't think I'd be able to walk home. I was pretty banged up. I took some time to get back on my feet, and hobbled and limped cautiously in the direction of the coyotes just to get one last glimpse. They moved down over one of the hills and as we followed them, the three coyotes turned into a pack of about TEN!!!

That's when I instantly turned my pack around and started walking back to get my bike and put Nara back on lead to get home ASAP. I walked the most direct line down through the cemetery to get to our house, leaving the roads for shortcuts down each hill to get to the bottom of the cemetery. The coyotes were behind me to my left as we fled, and we got far enough away that I could no longer see them. As we approached the edge of the cemetery near a very busy road, two coyotes ran from out of nowhere down below us and in front of us, and started circling around us, following us all the way until we crossed the street and left them to reclaim their night-time territory. They were not afraid of Nara, and they were not afraid of the cars zooming down our steep mountain. They certainly gained my respect!

We got home, and after telling my story to my wife while I changed and cleaned the blood off of me, I jumped online to research and find out more about Oregon coyotes. I found a lot of info. I discovered that the coyotes here in Oregon average 25-33 lbs, which was about right. Those coyotes we saw were about a third the size of Nara. My reserach revealed that these coyotes will attack and kill stray and outdoor cats, and small dogs, but will only attack large dogs if the dog ventures into a coyote den while their young pups are present. Other than that, they will usually only toy with a large dog, like they did with us. They rarely ever harm humans. I read about a California family in the 1970s who were constantly feeding coyotes in their backyard, and one day left their young daughter out there unsupervised and the pack of coyotes killed her. That was supposedly the only human casualty on this coast. I also found out that the natural predator of the coyote is the wolf, and with all of the Oregon clearcutting of the trees, we've driven out the wolves on this side of the Cascade Mountains, which is why the coyotes are getting braver and braver coming this close to busy roads and neighborhoods. There were pictures of coyotes running free on the Oregon coast, splashing in the Pacific Ocean! Ha.

I still exercise the dogs in that cemetery almost every day, and have not seen or heard any sign of coyotes since that night. I learned my lesson and got lucky that no harm was done to Nara. She's a smart and brave girl! I love her!!

...and that's our story of a GSD versus a coyote, or TEN!!! Haha. Hope you enjoyed!


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## counter

*So weird that I posted my above story, and haven't seen or heard a coyote since all of that happened, and just this week we were sitting down to eat dinner and I happened to look out the window and guess what I saw?!? Standing in the middle of our street was a COYOTE! It looked like it was going to the bathroom or marking, since it was in a partial squat, and then it started running up the hill. I'm the only one in my family that has seen a live coyote (above post) and now my wife and mother also caught a glimpse. It was all by itself, and then it ran out of sight. Crazy! Here's someone else's pic of a Portland, OR coyote, along with vids of a coyote running around a Portland, OR neighborhood:*










Part 1:




 
Part 2:




 
*And here's a quick map I made detailing the locations of the initial encounter and this new sighting so you can see how brave they are getting:*


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## GSD Fan

I've never heard of a coyote attacking a dog around here, however, I never walked my dog at night. When the sun went down, there are certain areas around here that are not safe due to bobcats, coyotes and the so called rumored "panther". I live in the country and night time is when the wild life comes out. 

So all I can say is walk your dogs in the daytime and still be careful, I've seen coyotes out in the daytime.


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## ruger

We have coyotes in town a lot. Well I live in the burbs, but back up to a green belt and park. One night in Feb of 06, our smaller dog at the time 28lb's needed to go out. I let him in the back yard and shut the door. It was probably 15 below that night, we had a cold snap. I was waiting by the back door and all of sudden I heard a loud bang on the storm door, then a bark. I opened the door to see what the heck it was and looked down, our dog had his but near the ground and was barking out into the yard. I looked up and there was a large coyote in my back yard. The dog came in and I shut the door and he just jumped the fence and took off. Our little dog had 4 puncture wounds on his neck and had to have drains put in, but he survived.

A co-worker of mine went home and notice that his American bull-dog was sitting facing the corner of their yard kind've behind a tree. Just sitting there back to the door. When he went outside to see what the dog was up to, there was a coyote that tried to dart past the dog. The dog got the coyote by the neck and shook and the coyote died. 

Pretty crazy, both incidents in town and there are more. I see signs all the time of people missing dogs and cats usually small ones. I don't doubt that in some cases it's coyotes.


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## Jessiewessie99

I think as along as the they are hunting squirrels and not humans you are fine. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone.


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## Miikkas mom

counter said:


> ...and that's our story of a GSD versus a coyote, or TEN!!! Haha. Hope you enjoyed!


I DID enjoy it!! Thanks for sharing!


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## CNTLOSE

We have several around where we live. You can hear them almost every night...espeically when they kill something close by. We like to run a night and for that very reason we have always took Duke (100 lbs Boxer) and stub nose .38. Have yet to see one while we are running, but we want to be ready if we come across one or more.


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## rubmybelly

Bear is an outside dog and he really gets excited with barking and even howling when he hears the coyotes crying. I think he is releasing his inner "primitive" dog!I am honestly too scared to go out and see if they are out in our field, or just where they are! But, know this, they ARE out there. . . waiting, just waiting. . .


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## codmaster

rubmybelly said:


> Bear is an outside dog and he really gets excited with barking and even howling when he hears the coyotes crying. I think he is releasing his inner "primitive" dog!I am honestly too scared to go out and see if they are out in our field, or just where they are! But, know this, they ARE out there. . . waiting, just waiting. . .


Let's see - YOU are too scared to go out there but your dog is an "outside dog" and presumably tied outside with the coyotes?

Sounds real nice for your dog.


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## selzer

Maybe her dog is in a nice safe kennel? Some people do have dogs that spend the night outside doing the job they were bred to do, guard the farm and the livestock. 

Let's not jump to conclusions that the dog is chained up. 

But, I think that a chained dog might be safer than one left to roam loose outside, considering how a coyote might lead a dog into the woods and the pack, but is less likely to come right up to the house where the dog is chained. 

But all of that is conjecture.


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## codmaster

selzer said:


> Maybe her dog is in a nice safe kennel? Some people do have dogs that spend the night outside doing the job they were bred to do, guard the farm and the livestock.
> 
> Let's not jump to conclusions that the dog is chained up. But, I think that a chained dog might be safer than one left to roam loose outside, considering how a coyote might lead a dog into the woods and the pack, but is less likely to come right up to the house where the dog is chained. But all of that is conjecture.


Let us hope that the dog is safe! I might have assumed the wrong thing and certainly hope that I did. It just sounded bad perhaps when the OP said that they were afraid to go out and yet they left their dog outside. And do not doubt for a second that a coyote singly or in a group will come right right up to the house. We had them in suberbia in RI and they would come right into an open dog run and steal the dogs food if he wasn't there!


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## selzer

Well, that's the thing, if the dog is kenneled or chained up close to the house, a bitch might try to lure him out to where the pack will attack, but it is a little less likely for the pack to come up to the house and kill the large dog. If it was a small dog, a lone coyote might try. 

I don't know. I do not like the idea leaving dogs out if I am afraid either. But I do not have enough information.


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## CB54

We hear them all the time where I live and my neighbor has killed 3 within the last month. We live in the country and have 80 acres and we've been hearing that folks out our way are losing pets and small farm animals. I never walk our frm w/o being armed.

CB


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## Dennq

I guess our government doesnt like 'yotes either...



CBC News - Nova Scotia - N.S. trappers ready for coyote cull


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## Dog_Luver

I am one of these people who truly believe that maybe aside from the Standard Poodle; the German Shepherd Dog (GSD) is the closest canine to perfection ever! In answer to the topic GSD vs. Coyote, understand the purpose of the GSD is not to match the Coyote, “mano-y-mano.” I do understand the proposed question however, can a GSD hold their own against a larger sized Coyote. The answer is yes, however, at a price – make no mistake about it; the Coyote is an efficient killer, who takes its victims by the throat, ripping out the juggler. It would take an 80 lb., and still agile GSD to overcome a larger size Coyote (approx.. 50 lbs.). If a Coyote encounters a GSD of this stature, rest assured he has a pack lying in wait just past the timberline. However, why would you want to? Do not place your dog in harm’s way, and practice safe pet ownership when living in Coyote country. A dog which could easily overcome a Coyote would be one of the Eastern European flock guards (i.e., Caucasian Ovcharka). The Caucasian Ovcharka is basically a floppy-eared GSD on steroids, sharing mastiff lineage as well. Caucasian Ovcharka’s at times reach 180-200 lbs. and are bred for subduing "European” wolves (not to me confused with North America’s Gray Wolf). If you own a Caucasian Ovcharka, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Kuvaz, etc., you will no longer even know you live in Coyote country as they will steer clear of these formidable flock guards. Going back to the GSD however, understand that a male Coyote may get the better of a medium sized GSD (>70 lbs.), as they are just not as equipped to handle the Coyote’s superior balance, speed, endurance, weapons (larger, scalpel-like canines, etc.), aggression, tolerance for pain, etc. Although we are all advocates and favor our domestic canine family members, they have just not been designed to be effective killers and last the ages as the resourceful Coyote. In short, let's never find out who can get the better of who.


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## NancyJ

We have them here and it is legal year round to shoot them, or trap them with foothold traps during certain seasons. I hear them behind us in a 40 acre patch of woods that leads to a stream basin with hundreds of acres of floodplain (we get deer too)

I have heard of them interbreeding with wolves though and getting large. A friend says she saw an 85lb male killed by a friend. 

SCDNR - Wildlife Information


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## codmaster

Dog_Luver said:


> I am one of these people who truly believe that maybe aside from the Standard Poodle; the German Shepherd Dog (GSD) is the closest canine to perfection ever! In answer to the topic GSD vs. Coyote, understand the purpose of the GSD is not to match the Coyote, “mano-y-mano.” I do understand the proposed question however, can a GSD hold their own against a larger sized Coyote. The answer is yes, however, at a price – make no mistake about it; the Coyote is an efficient killer, who takes its victims by the throat, ripping out the juggler. It would take an 80 lb., and still agile GSD to overcome a larger size Coyote (approx.. 50 lbs.). If a Coyote encounters a GSD of this stature, rest assured he has a pack lying in wait just past the timberline. However, why would you want to? Do not place your dog in harm’s way, and practice safe pet ownership when living in Coyote country. A dog which could easily overcome a Coyote would be one of the Eastern European flock guards (i.e., Caucasian Ovcharka). The Caucasian Ovcharka is basically a floppy-eared GSD on steroids, sharing mastiff lineage as well. Caucasian Ovcharka’s at times reach 180-200 lbs. and are bred for subduing "European” wolves (not to me confused with North America’s Gray Wolf). If you own a Caucasian Ovcharka, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Kuvaz, etc., you will no longer even know you live in Coyote country as they will steer clear of these formidable flock guards. Going back to the GSD however, understand that a male Coyote may get the better of a medium sized GSD (>70 lbs.), as they are just not as equipped to handle the Coyote’s superior balance, speed, endurance, weapons (larger, scalpel-like canines, etc.), aggression, tolerance for pain, etc. Although we are all advocates and favor our domestic canine family members, they have just not been designed to be effective killers and last the ages as the resourceful Coyote. In short, let's never find out who can get the better of who.


Standard Poodle???????????????

Anyway, how about having a "bodyguard" for the GSD. Big pit bull!


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## wolfy dog

Coyotes learn to kill as pups. As grown ups they don't hesitate and know what they are doing. The average pet dog, no matter its size, is no match for a coyote, unless raised by parents to kill the coyotes.


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## GatorBytes

My dog caught a coyote while on leash - a standard 6ft. leash.

It was a brand new snow fall, about 7:30 am, peaceful, not a soul around, a fairly wide open field...there was fresh coyote tracks going in one direction to which I was going to follow a bit to see if it had headed to where I wanted to go....well I guess he had doubled back, because the coyote was in some tall dead grasses on the right just beside me...it all happened very fast...at the moment I surmissed the direction if the tracks, my dog on my left just sailed past me and pounced into the tall grass...as I was about to yank the leash at the moment he grabbed it, I saw the grey and beige fur and gave slack....Gator dragged the coyote forward on it's back and had it by the throat, it's head back teeth barred...remember, I am within 6 feet of it, and in a knee jerk reaction, yelled and jerked the leash up, Gator let go and the coyote flipped over and hobbled off...


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## pets4life

my dog caught a coyote the other day also shes on antibiotics for it she ran out of doxy and the vet wont get her anymore. SHe would have KILLED IT. She had it by the neck. It all started cause the coyote was after our barn cat. The coyote bit her in the face its a small bite and will heal quick. SHe was trying to rip the coyotes head off though. SHe would have never let go if it wasnt for me pulling her tail.

I think a lot of people just own timid soft gsds that would probably run away from a fox though most of the time probably from bad breeding. A good gsd shouldnt have a problem with coyotes. Coyotes are smarter than dogs also they know what dogs they can mess around with and what they can't it seems.

I live very close to the OP also. Our coyotes are bigger than other ones.


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## pets4life

maybe its good genetics or all the bite/protection training but my bitch bites like a gator and will never give up if shes protecting something. Coyotes are the least of my concerns. And we have come across many here. IT is funny someone with a dog like a gsd afraid of a coyote that maxes out at 50lbs. You wonder who bred their dogs.


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## GatorBytes

My dog has no bite/protection training (that I know of)...just 100% pure genetic prey drive...


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## pets4life

yeah you have a nice dog which is so rare these days. You are from the same area as me also lol The coyote that my dog grabbed was with another one also but that one bolted.

They are almost never a problem but this time they had my cat up on a low hanging bird house old bird penn type thing and we got to the cat in time. THey can jump so **** high and can pull a cat down from a high area. I dont mind coyotes most of the time been a long time since they have come here. I see them all the time when i go on off leash hikes. THey always just bolt away. They arent interested in me or my dog.


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## Nigel

pets4life said:


> my dog caught a coyote the other day also shes on antibiotics for it she ran out of doxy and the vet wont get her anymore. SHe would have KILLED IT. She had it by the neck. It all started cause the coyote was after our barn cat. The coyote bit her in the face its a small bite and will heal quick. SHe was trying to rip the coyotes head off though. SHe would have never let go if it wasnt for me pulling her tail.
> 
> I think a lot of people just own timid soft gsds that would probably run away from a fox though most of the time probably from bad breeding. A good gsd shouldnt have a problem with coyotes. Coyotes are smarter than dogs also they know what dogs they can mess around with and what they can't it seems.
> 
> I live very close to the OP also. *Our coyotes are bigger than other ones*.


Yes, the eastern coyotes are larger, I'm not sure if "all" but many are hybrids, mixed with wolves.
Coyote-Wolf Hybrids Have Spread Across U.S. East


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## pets4life

but they still dont get bigger than 50 pounds according to local hunters who have weighed them and study thath ave been done


You do get an odd mutant that will get like 60 or so pound but it is rare 

in the field they will look as tall and long as a gsd but they dont have the powerful body full of muscle as a working gsd because a 40 pound eastern coyote is all streached out and a gsd of that size will be about 75 pounds but solid


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## llombardo

This lady had chickens and the coyote was after them, then the GSD came out and chased the coyote away...well it was almost comical because they were running around trees, the house, etc. The GSD did not catch the coyote, but it did save the chicken. All of this in broad day light for everyone to see


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## Nigel

pets4life said:


> *but they still dont get bigger than 50 pounds* according to local hunters who have weighed them and study thath ave been done
> 
> 
> You do get an odd mutant that will get like 60 or so pound but it is rare
> 
> in the field they will look as tall and long as a gsd but they dont have the powerful body full of muscle as a working gsd because a 40 pound eastern coyote is all streached out and a gsd of that size will be about 75 pounds but solid


That's still larger than there western counterparts.
Eastern coyote


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## GatorBytes

I am a hop skip from the lake near a major creek that is a highway for coyotes, deer etc.

Going back about 4 yrs. same field, I was walking with a friend and his dog. The coyotes I see are pretty big. The one G caught was about 30lbs approx. seen so many and in very good shape....but this one day, my friend and I are walking along, there is fence that seperates this field from a public park on the lake. At this time of year, this side of park is closed....well G goes into alert mode, and Ken and I look to see, what we are 99% sure, was a wolf. I mean this thing was BIG...It stopped, looked at us for a moment and then just sauntered off. My mouth fell open and I look at KEn and he just says "yep, that was a wolf"....he likened it to the size of my dog who at the time was 100lbs. (now 85), anyhow...last year, I was alone w/my dog on a small (what used to be a private rd.) natural area, on our way home along this path a curve up ahead, G suddenly alert - freezes, just then what I think is a young GSD - tall, narrow appears....I was just about to yell leash your dog, when the thing darted off the path and into the forested area...I then realized this wasn't a dog, but either a wolf, hybrid or feral dog - which I have never seen....but it was no coyote


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## pets4life

the one my dog caught was about 40 so pounds 

what scares me is great horned owls hitting me or my dog if we walk across ones nest i wouldnt dare mess with one of those, or an angry eagle. These birds can put the fear of god into bears and wolves when they are mad protecting their nests.


Gator what part of ontario did you see the wolf? I have seen one before also. THe odd one comes from algonquin park lost and alone i think trying to find a pack or a place to live.


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## Nigel

pets4life said:


> the one my dog caught was about 40 so pounds
> 
> what scares me is great horned owls hitting me or my dog if we walk across ones nest i wouldnt dare mess with one of those, or an angry eagle. These birds can put the fear of god into bears and wolves when they are mad protecting their nests.


Angry birds! Lol! When I was about 16, a friend and I were floating on inner tubes on the Pend Oreille river in north east Washinton. It's a fairly wide river and we managed to get most of the way across "to get a better look at an osprey nest". Dumb dumb dumb!


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## Jag

codmaster said:


> Standard Poodle???????????????
> 
> Anyway, how about having a "bodyguard" for the GSD. Big pit bull!


Have you ever had one? I was raised with them, and let me tell you they are EVERY bit as protective as a GSD... and as intelligent. They are NOT what you think of when you think of the smaller poodles.


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## APBTLove

codmaster said:


> Standard Poodle???????????????
> 
> Anyway, how about having a "bodyguard" for the GSD. Big pit bull!


If you want a guardian breed... get one. Ovcharka, Kuvasz, etc.
If this wasn't meant a joke, Pit Bulls are a bad choice unless you are HUNTING coyotes. And are very unsafe to leave loose with other dogs or animals so defeat the purpose of protecting from coyotes. 

Real poodles are great, I want one someday, they are rugged serious dogs. Media, movies etc. portray them as sensitive fancy dogs, and they're not.


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## pets4life

ID be very careful about using a LGD so many of them suck now days just like gsd they have been ruined and can't do what they were meant to. 


Poodles are smart but they arent bred for protection. Asking them to be something they are not isnt fair they are just exceptionally smart dogs and big pretty strong also.


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## GatorBytes

I thought they were protection dogs way way back when - Standard poodles


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## pets4life

they might have been back in the day but now they aren't after a while selective breeding kills that out of them. Look at american shepherds people here want bodyguards for their own dogs. Thats what happens when people breed for soft personality generation after generation you get a rabbit in a dogs body. These people are terrified to walk their dogs they might get eaten by something.


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## Fox944

A lot of ignorant comments in regards to coyotes in this thread. Sad really.


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## NietzschesMomma

I too deal with coyotes regularly, its just part of life in the desert.

That said, they won't come anywhere near my fence line. My Great Dane hates them. Most of the problems we have out here are with people leaving bait (small dogs and cats) outdoors. Coyotes are opportunistic and won't think twice about taking a cat or a small dog. Large dogs I don't worry about much...in my area they aren't usually in packs...and even if they are...will avoid larger dogs. We also have feral dog packs out here...and if coyotes were that good at taking down larger dogs, we wouldn't have the problems with feral dog packs that we do. THOSE are far more dangerous than a coyote could ever hope to be. We've had feral dog packs take down and kill horses out here.


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## LynneLittlefield

Fox944 said:


> A lot of ignorant comments in regards to coyotes in this thread. Sad really.


I live where there are lots of coyotes. I can hear them at night and sometimes will see one watching me on the hill behind my house. I have lived here for 13 years and have cats and two Jack Russell Terriers and now a GSD. I have never had any issues with the coyotes and one used to come in my yard to play with my JRT's . If they were such killers I surely would have had missing cats or dogs by now! It's a shame that so many people have the kill everything mentality. I don't believe half these stories on this post either.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## GSDolch

LynneLittlefield said:


> I live where there are lots of coyotes. I can hear them at night and sometimes will see one watching me on the hill behind my house. I have lived here for 13 years and have cats and two Jack Russell Terriers and now a GSD. I have never had any issues with the coyotes and one used to come in my yard to play with my JRT's . If they were such killers I surely would have had missing cats or dogs by now! It's a shame that so many people have the kill everything mentality. I don't believe half these stories on this post either.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



What you are failing to realize though is that this is YOUR area. I live in an area with a lot of coyotes too. They aren't much of an issue here, however, they have plenty of food and plenty of places away from people that they don't NEED to come around houses and snatch up a cat or get in the trash or form small packs to survive.

Coyotes are adapters, they will adapt to their surroundings and around what is going on in the area. I'm sure 20 years ago people wouldn't have believed they were breeding with wolves, but in some areas, they very much are.

ETA: for some its not a "kill everything" mentality, but a safety mentality. I would protect my life by whatever means needed, be it against a GSD, or brother coyote. Thankfully it has never been an issue and I hope it never will be.


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## Fox944

LynneLittlefield said:


> I live where there are lots of coyotes. I can hear them at night and sometimes will see one watching me on the hill behind my house. I have lived here for 13 years and have cats and two Jack Russell Terriers and now a GSD. I have never had any issues with the coyotes and one used to come in my yard to play with my JRT's . If they were such killers I surely would have had missing cats or dogs by now! It's a shame that so many people have the kill everything mentality. I don't believe half these stories on this post either.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


:thumbup::thumbup:

I also had a JRT, a very curious one with a zero fear attitude. Found him playing with a Coyote one time in the back yard. 

That said, they don't come around often anymore (possibly out of fear of the GSD)? 

In any event, Coyotes are wild animals (predators) at the end of the day. And if something were to ever happen, I cannot blame them, but rather myself for not doing a better job of looking after my own pets. 

Btw......nice GSD....looks like Cyprus.


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## LynneLittlefield

Yes Luna does look like Cyprus! The picture and quote I am posting is of a fox not a coyote, but the thought is just the same. The only animal that the coyotes have to my knowledge have killed in my yard was a fox last May. The evening it happened I heard a few coyotes howling and carrying on in my yard and when I got up the next morning I found the fox dead. We have many foxes too and they have never bothered any of my pets.









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## Lilie

We have coyotes in our area. Just recently, two of my dogs saved my neighbor's entire chicken coop from being destroyed by two coyotes. It was my GSD and my Lacy. 

They barked. And barked. Because my neighbor knows my dogs don't bark unless they have a reason, walked out of his house and heard his chickens. 

The two coyotes won't be bothering his chickens again. My dogs were never in danger. Win / Win.


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## LoveEcho

We live in a very rural area, and years when food sources have been scarce, there were several confirmed kills of dogs and small livestock by coyotes. We haven't had a problem luckily they come close, but not too close because of the dog. It was on the news that there are now a few wolves in the area mingling with the coyotes, and they're concerned about how this will change their behavior. 

Blanket statements about coyote behavior really can't be made, their behavior varies and depends on their environment. Coyotes in rural areas will act much different than those in suburbia.


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## shadow mum

I live in Brampton. I work evenings, finishing at about 2:30 or 3am most days. I have been saying for the past year that I am seeing coyotes on my street when I get home from work. Used to enjoy walking Shadow at that time to wind down, but that ended. 

The other day, walking on one of the trails near our house, saw a big yellow sign saying that there was a coyote population in the area, to walk in pairs and keep all dogs on leash close to you. Getting scary.


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## meek

coyotes in a pack will attack.


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## LynneLittlefield

I live in a rural area and there is a pack of coyotes that lives near by that has never attacked anyone or any pets.


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## Dainerra

it really depends on a lot of factors. 1) how much wild food is in the area? 2) is it heavily populated enough that coyotes are losing their fear of humans? 3) is there a large feral cat population that people wouldn't notice disappearing until it was almost gone?

I had a friend whose small dog was on a runner attached to the porch rail for a potty break. Dog was barking to be let in, right at the front door. Coyote grabbed it off the porch; didn't get away with the dog because it was on a runner but did snap its neck when it hit the end of the chain.


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## Fox944

meek said:


> coyotes in a pack will attack.


If they are hungry and you are a cat or really small dog, sure. I went out back to my shed once and found 8 Coyotes not 15 feet from me when I stepped out of the shed. I paused for a second and then continued to walk back to the house. Wasn't attacked.


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## LARHAGE

LynneLittlefield said:


> I live where there are lots of coyotes. I can hear them at night and sometimes will see one watching me on the hill behind my house. I have lived here for 13 years and have cats and two Jack Russell Terriers and now a GSD. I have never had any issues with the coyotes and one used to come in my yard to play with my JRT's . If they were such killers I surely would have had missing cats or dogs by now! It's a shame that so many people have the kill everything mentality. I don't believe half these stories on this post either.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
Well around here your attitude towards Coyotes would leave your dogs dead, the Coyotes around here are extremely aggressive and having personally lost a small dog to one, I am more than happy that me and my neighbors back each other up with the S.S.S. system, they are a nuisance that will never stop trying to kill your animals, I can't stand them.


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## blackshep

I also live in SW Ontario, and what we have here are coywolves. There was a show done on The Nature of Things on them. 

While in general, I don't think they are a problem (and there are more around than you probably think, who don't cause problems) they are certainly to be respected.

I have them around my home as well. I don't let my dog off leash for that reason. I'm lucky that I have an indoor riding arena so I can let her bomb around off leash there, but otherwise, she's leashed.

As far as who would win...I think I'd put my money on the coyote. They have bigger teeth and almost twice the bite force of a GSD. They also fight for survival every day of their lives, so I think they are probably more skilled in fighting/killing.

And yes they will lure a larger dog. Contrary to popular belief though, coyotes are generally solitary hunters and their diet consists mainly of small animals, bugs and rodents.

I've run into a pair of them behind my barn when I was putting hay out for the horses in the morning, probably only about 50' away when I walked out the back door of the barn. I'd just found out the night before that my mom had cancer and I was so tired and so upset the next morning that I just yelled "SHOO!!" at them and kept walking and they took off. lol Probably not my brightest move, but at that moment in time I almost wished they'd have put me out of my misery. lol


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## alexg

Fox944 said:


> If they are hungry and you are a cat or really small dog, sure. I went out back to my shed once and found 8 Coyotes not 15 feet from me when I stepped out of the shed. I paused for a second and then continued to walk back to the house. Wasn't attacked.


good for you.


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## mehpenn

A neighboring farm to me had a pack of coyotes take out one of their Pyrenese... and he was HUGE dog.


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## Lilie

Personally, I wouldn't want any of my animals to get in a scrape with a coyote. Too many diseases out there. Not to mention it takes no effort at all to remove an eye, or hook a main artery. 

I don't care if I had a 1/2 wolf 1/2 hippo, I wouldn't send it out after a coyote. If I'm concerned, I'll take care of it.


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## Fox944

blackshep said:


> As far as who would win...I think I'd put my money on the coyote. They have bigger teeth and almost twice the bite force of a GSD. They also fight for survival every day of their lives, so I think they are probably more skilled in fighting/killing.


I don't agree. A full grown GSD will weigh about 30-40lbs more then a Coyote. They are much more muscular and stronger then Coyote's. 

Also, they don't have anywhere near twice the bight force of a GSD. A grey wolf does' but a Coyotes bight force is equivalent to that of a medium size dog according to most sources. So it would be less then that of a GSD. 

Being more skilled is something I will def agree with. 

But a sole Coyote will not pick a fight with an adult male GSD......not without a pack of buddies. If there are more then one shepherd present, even a pack of coyotes won't approach them.


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## Saphire

I don't know much about pack dynamics for coyotes but do you really think they fight that much between themselves to be skilled at fighting? Or perhaps they do allot of play sparring with each other?


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## selzer

Saphire said:


> I don't know much about pack dynamics for coyotes but do you really think they fight that much between themselves to be skilled at fighting? Or perhaps they do allot of play sparring with each other?


Wild critters, are, well, wild. They use their teeth to rip, tear, and kill. They know canine body language and defer fighting amongst themselves, except when they mean it, and then they fight for survival, they fight for keeps. It isn't play. And those that lure dogs off so the pack can jump them, are very skilled in the kill, while a pet dog generally wont have a prayer. 

Disease, fleas, ticks, no I don't want my dogs to have anything to do with coyotes.


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## Lilie

Fox944 said:


> I don't agree. A full grown GSD will weigh about 30-40lbs more then a Coyote. They are much more muscular and stronger then Coyote's.


I think that depends on what part of the country you are in. The northern coyotes average 75lbs. The southern coyote average 40lbs. They have been known to breed with domestic dogs and wolves. I think they can run over 30 miles an hour and jump over 10'. 

I just wouldn't bet my dog's life on it. 

There is a poster on this site, who lost two full grown GSDs one evening to coyotes. I think she'd disagree as well.


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## Fox944

Lilie said:


> I think that depends on what part of the country you are in. The northern coyotes average 75lbs. The southern coyote average 40lbs. They have been known to breed with domestic dogs and wolves. I think they can run over 30 miles an hour and jump over 10'.
> 
> I just wouldn't bet my dog's life on it.
> 
> There is a poster on this site, who lost two full grown GSDs one evening to coyotes. I think she'd disagree as well.


You may be confusing coyotes with Wolves. In general, coyotes weigh 25-50 lbs depending on region and male/female. A 75lbs Coyote is an anomaly...or not a coyote at all. More then likely a Wolf or coy wolf. It is Akin to meeting a 7'2" Mexican....they exist....but how many relative to the rest of the population. 

A 50Lbs Male Coyote is a very large male. Similar to. 95LBS work line GSD. There are 19 sub species of Coyote in North America, with the largest being the north eastern coyote, specifically the New York State coyote....who's males reach 45-55lbs max. 

Wolves/Coy Wolfs are a whole other ball park. And those guys don't exist in New York State, coy dogs and coy wolfs in general are very rare and not a occurrence that happens often.


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## Lilie

Oh man...now you're going to make me have to google it............


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## Nigel

Fox944 said:


> If they are hungry and you are a cat or really small dog, sure. I went out back to my shed once and found 8 Coyotes not 15 feet from me when I stepped out of the shed. I paused for a second and then continued to walk back to the house. Wasn't attacked.


Though rare, they do attack people too, usually children, but they will sometimes attack adults. This (link) may be an isolated incident but should at least make people aware that they should not take their presence lightly. Canadian folk singer killed by coyotes, park official says - CNN.com

There are plenty more stories in the media 
Girl, 2, Attacked by Coyote in Orange County | KTLA 5

This one happened closer to my neck of the woods.
Kent man attacked by coyotes in his own backyard | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

We have them around town and I've had no problems with them, even while riding my bike to work in the early AM passing them in close proximity, but I'm still cautious.


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## Fox944

http://media.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/photo/coyotejpg-085f8c1f54e5aa56.jpg

A size comparison with a GSD. Jonathan Way wrote a great book on Coyote's titled "Suburban Howls" 

Great read for anyone interested in learning more about these animals.


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## GSDolch

http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/f/Coyote.pdf



> Northern coyotes are typically larger than southern subspecies, with the largest coyotes on record weighing 74¾ pounds (33.7 kg) and measuring over five feet in total length.


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## Fox944

GSDolch said:


> http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/f/Coyote.pdf


Most biologists who study coyotes have proved that this is not the case. DNA samples have been take from many, in lauding the largest killed. They are coywolfs or actual wolves. 

Of the 19 subspecies, the largest is the eastern coyote with large mLes weighing 45-50lbs. 

In any event, looking at the coyote population across the country, the average weight is under 40lbs male or female. Anomaly's (as with any species) exist.

You aren't going to run into a pack of 60+lbs coyotes anywhere.


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## blackshep

This was a really good program on Coywolves. I think for the 'haters'  you might find this interesting. For how many there are in very close proximity to humans, there are very few encounters, considering.

CBC -The Nature of Things with David Suzuki - - Meet the Coywolf

Still, I'm very cautions with them, they can be a nuisance and dangerous, but studies have shown they can increase litter sizes and migrate to fill voids in the population. So if your resident coyotes remain fearful of humans and keep to themselves, it's best to leave them be. Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't, as it were.


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## pets4life

74 lbs is a record weight, ive lived around coyotes my whole life the largest sub species the ones in ontario. With my personal shepherd does not matter 1 or 2 they are NOT interested in her, in fighting her or dealing with her trying to kill them. They will get away from the situation. If in pairs and my dog catches one the partner wont rescue the other one even. My bitch is not worth the risk. But they do bug some dogs that they know are scared of them. They are terrified of my friends field lab and stay way out of its way. Remember eastern coyotes look huge but they have a very light build. They are smart dogs they do not want to fight an animal that is going to try and kill them that is double their weight. They lure dogs out but these are dogs that were just chasing and not intending on killing them most of the time. YOu never hear of a pack of even 10 coyotes ganging up on a single female wolf. Its not worth it to them.


THE DNA the eastern coyote is mixed with is just the eastern red wolf its not the giant grey wolf of the north.


The grey wolf of the north eats coyotes it would NEVER mate with them. THe eastern red wolf of ontario mates with them, as its not even a real wolf. 


Also The grey wolf will usually kill a dog any dog because it can do it without risking injury to itself. BUT This wolf is not usually found around homes as it is scared of humans and does not do well near city or any kind of urban setting.


COYWOLVES are not dangerous they have killed i think 2 humans in the last hundred years (one woman and one child),. Now think about how many humans a gsd has killed? Oh and trust me there are a crap load of these animals out there. Must be millions of them? COyotes are in HUGE NUMBERs out there. More than foxes now. They are all over like deer. A gsd is far more capable and dangerous than these animals. Of course I am talking the wild ones. Having a domestic coywolf would be much more dangerous.


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## pets4life

some serious acts of aggression from them is usually just because a den is near by 


ALso you hear these insane stories about them biggest issue is the people they see one and start screaming and running. Coyotes being smarter than dogs feed off that, but still it almost never results into another more than the coyotes intimidating the person. I can't count how many times I have seen them in the woods near my old place. People see them they run and scream. lol


Unlike wolves coyotes are adapting they are not meant to be big game hunters or dog killers, or apex predators. They do not have the strong jaws and size of the real wolves. HEalthy deer that are adults can kill them easy still but they do kill all kinds of deer using their brains running them down into deep snow etc.. Or killing them after they have been hurt or in a fight. SO can many dogs. Does not matter if they are wild or not they still lack the weight and power of the grey wolf. The world record is 74 pounds no one is going to encounter that. The biggest if your lucky is like 55 pounds. BUt this will seem bigger than a gsd because it is sooooo streached out. 

GREY wolf record i think is 180??? they are the real beasts when it comes to power and size.


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## blackshep

I agree, there are far more attacks on humans by domestic dogs than coyotes/coywolves pets4life. 

I don't think they are an animal to be trusted necessarily, but my experience has been that they will run off if you meet them.

I've run in to them several times when out doing barn chores. One time was when my puppy was 3 months old (perfect size for a snack!) and we were sitting ducks, halfway between then barn and the house with nowhere to go.

It stopped and looked at us then trotted away. The most creepy thing they do, is when they flee, they have a habit of stopping to see if you're gaining on them, which can kind of look like they are stopping and reconsidering you as a snack. 

I saw one in our paddock next to the house, on a very frosty morning. It was SO beautiful. I hope I won't ever have a bad encounter with one, because I think they are important to our ecosystem and they are really magnificent animals in their own right.


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## pets4life

Fox944 said:


> Most biologists who study coyotes have proved that this is not the case. DNA samples have been take from many, in lauding the largest killed. They are coywolfs or actual wolves.
> 
> Of the 19 subspecies, the largest is the eastern coyote with large mLes weighing 45-50lbs.
> 
> In any event, looking at the coyote population across the country, the average weight is under 40lbs male or female. Anomaly's (as with any species) exist.
> 
> You aren't going to run into a pack of 60+lbs coyotes anywhere.



The only reason that coyote got over 60 pounds is because it is a eastern coyote an eastern coyote is a coywolf. No eastern coyotes are pure coyotes most of them have eastern red wolf in them. 


NO pure coyote is going to be more than 50 pounds EVER. the 70 pound mONSTER is mostly wolf. Its a eastern coyote. Not a pure coyote. That is why it got that big. Pure coyote Probably never got bigger than 40 pounds. The eastern red wolves made them get bigger. But still NO one is ever going to come across a coyote more than 55 pounds no matter how big the coyotes looks. I saw a dead one that looked 90 pounds with its fur it looked so much bigger than my dog. It was only 45 pounds.


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## pets4life

blackshep said:


> I agree, there are far more attacks on humans by domestic dogs than coyotes/coywolves pets4life.
> 
> I don't think they are an animal to be trusted necessarily, but my experience has been that they will run off if you meet them.
> 
> I've run in to them several times when out doing barn chores. One time was when my puppy was 3 months old (perfect size for a snack!) and we were sitting ducks, halfway between then barn and the house with nowhere to go.
> 
> It stopped and looked at us then trotted away. The most creepy thing they do, is when they flee, they have a habit of stopping to see if you're gaining on them, which can kind of look like they are stopping and reconsidering you as a snack.
> 
> I saw one in our paddock next to the house, on a very frosty morning. It was SO beautiful. I hope I won't ever have a bad encounter with one, because I think they are important to our ecosystem and they are really magnificent animals in their own right.



Wait tho, I did not say domestic dogs I said GSD ONLY. THe attacks by gsd and the jaw power a gsd has compared to any coyote exeeeds that of ANY coyote. Including domestic dogs is too huge of a fish pool. They are bred for aggression and strong grips of course they are more of a dangerous animal than an animal who is learning how to adapt and scavange around human dumps and urban areas for small pets and livestock. 1 gsd has killed more than 50 goats and not even eaten 1.

There is a huge gene pool in gsds just like there is in coyotes.


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## pets4life

goldens have killed more people than coyotes also, there is a document I have of a lab being dumped and then found again, he paired up with a female coyote and started living with them.



THey WILL the coyotes they will take any small dog or cat in seconds. THey tried to pull my old barn cat from under a wagon many times. She survived because smart and stayed put and because of my dog. One here tried to take a boston terrier but it struggled with the dog for a while, long enough for someone to get in the way and save the dog. If your dog is not aggressive they will follow you out of curiousity. Like they follow my friend and her dog before. They never follow us because my dog wants to eat them. But they have been following hundreds and thousands of people without attacks. THey are scary and dangerous when people start to feed them.

THE ONLY lethal attacks and almost all attacks was because people started to feed them. They were not normal coyotes just attacking. Just like wolves they lost fear because humans started throwing scraps to them to take pictures.


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## Lilie

Texas Lacy dog vs. Coyote (not my dog!!!)


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## pets4life

I also wanted to comment if there is a predator that kills a gsd there are many north american predators that will and something silly will get the blame.

A cougar just north of me killed a full grown gsd in front of its owners until the police shot it. Cougars can and will come near houses looking for deer, moose, horses elk and dogs to them are prey. NO matter how big or strong the dog. Pitbull, cane curso, presa, anatolion shepherds, they are all easy meal for a puma because of this powerful cats method of killing of getting a hold of its neck. They kill horses also.


A black bear does not usually like to kill dogs but once in a while if a dog gets in its way or near its cubs it will kill a gsd very fast. Black bears come near houses all the time. I had one in a tree in my yard right near the city. You wont ever know a black bear or cougar is near you. You wont ever hear or see it most of the time. They have a range of something like 1000 km? 


Grey wolf also a lone starving grey wolf or a pack of grey wolves, if they sense any hunting dog or any dog on their turf they will find it and kill it very fast. Grey wolves kill great pryaneases more easy than they kill deer. Sometimes grey wolf include human land part of their turf. Usually grey wolf hate going near humans but if the dog is always barking or free running like a hunting dog and they are around they will kill it. 

Lilie that looks like a hunting picture?


like this one

http://coyoteinfo.typepad.com/.a/6a010535c7c434970c0115703a3876970c-800wi

I am not a fan of people using dogs to kill animals. Not that my dog has not killed aniimals If i see it I will stop it. Just seems so sick. 


Wolverines also will kill dogs if they get in their way. Their thick hide protects them from any kind of bites. 


Golden eagles have the power to kill any dog in a stoop they would only do it to protect their food or chicks. Golden eagles kill adult male coyotes.


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## Lilie

pets4life said:


> Lilie that looks like a hunting picture?


I don't know, it's not my dog.


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## ODINsFREKI

Ocean said:


> There is a lot of hearsay going around about coyotes. First, coyote attacks on humans, even small children are extremely, extremely rare. Yes, a woman was killed by coyotes in Canada a few years ago but a human, even a child getting attacked or even killed by a coyote is much much less likely statistically than being hit by or get killed by lightning.
> Bringing a gun along to protect your dog from coyotes also increases the chances of you shooting your dogs by accident. The average gun toting American is a very poor shot and his actual ability at hitting a target in a pressure situation is much less than his imagination. That's why the police practice constantly.
> That story by a poster of a coyote killing 2 Dobes in a pen sounds ludicrous and I bet is hearsay.
> It is true that coyotes will not hesitate to kill and eat a cat or a small dog. They are just prey to them.
> A big healthy dog being killed by one coyote is almost unheard of. Yes, a coyote pack might attack a big dog but that is also rare.
> You have to remember that unless a coyote is starving it would try to avoid fighting a similar or larger sized dog because there is also a good chance the dog will injure the coyote in the fight. Wild animals even predators instinctively avoid fights because there are no vets in the wild! Even a small cut that gets infected can be fatal.
> Around me in the country, everyone lives in acreage and there's a 2,000 acre ranch next door. We have several coyote packs and my neighbors let their dogs roam the countryside during the day. Even the small dogs have never been attacked (of course, they are indoors at night). I think the reason they have never been attacked is because the coyotes around here have enough prey to eat. Why risk their life in a fight with a dog if there's enough field mice?
> My GSDs are itching to go after coyotes but I never give them the chance of course.


Quite the generalization. From what I have witnessed first hand, civilian shooters are far better shots than cops. Most of the people I know carry and are ex-military. That's just my area. Civilian shooters in the USA are far better shots than anywhere else in the world excluding Switzerland. How do I know this? The civilian marksmanship program, scouts and the US infantry. People who carry out here protect themselves from coyotes, wolves, cats, bears and tweakers in the mountains. We have three gun competitions where you are shooting against civilian, military and police. The civilians have the best shooters, get their own gear and shoot their own ammo. They shoot more often than military and police. Shooting is expensive and if you are around cops and military, you will notice they don't practice enough. They qualify once, maybe twice a year. A responsible shooter has a better chance of saving their life while carrying than shooting their dog. 

Ranger, RIP, was tempted by coyotes several times in his long life. The coyote that took one for the team was killed at the end of the property line. Ranger was a good size and the coyotes weren't much smaller. This would usually happen in the middle of winter when available food sources were low.

It all depends on the dog. A lap dog would probably loose to a coyote. A GSD with any sort of drive would tear a coyote apart.


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## ODINsFREKI

codmaster said:


> Standard Poodle???????????????
> 
> Anyway, how about having a "bodyguard" for the GSD. Big pit bull!


The standard poodle is loyal, fierce, powerful and a **** of hunter. Have you ever run one on a bear? They're amazing.


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## Jaythethird

Ocean said:


> The average gun toting American is a very poor shot and his actual ability at hitting a target in a pressure situation is much less than his imagination. That's why the police practice constantly.


LOL! Just seen this quoted. And I would definitely disagree lmao! I'd put my eye up against any police officer. Not saying popo's are bad shots, I just know I'm **** good. If you live anywhere where coyote 'packs' are prevalent and you pack a firearm, my bet is on the human. I haven't ever been fearful of a coyote lol. I've called them within five yards and taken them with a pistol and a shotgun at that range. I save the fearful cautious ones for the trusty ol .270 

But I stand by my belief, if you own a firearm, and know you don't hold it sideways, my bet is on the human having advantage and I doubt a dog gets shot in the process 

Howdy from Idaho! 
Oliver Kahn der Fasan Suchenden 
08/03/13


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## selzer

I hear about black bears here, they come over from PA, and we ship them back to PA. Not sure what the people in PA think of that, but they can hunt them there. 

We have raccoons. And I do NOT want my dogs to EVER tangle with a raccoon. Coyotes are bigger than raccoons, and I don't want them to tangle with them either. Do I think a 45 pound raccoon might be able to kill my 65 or 75 pound female GSD? Well, actually, I don't care if the dog is able to fight off the coyote, I really don't want to have to mop up the dog, and stitch up the dog, and feed the dog antibiotics, etc. 

I've seen a few fox, and a coyote out here, but not near my house. My dogs will put up a heck of a noise, and any critter in its right mind would go the other way, even a bear would probably not want to bother them. No cougars around here.


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## pets4life

dogs kill *****, even small siberian husky females kill them. A giant 45 pound male cannot kill a gsd. They are tough powerful animals, I did help foster some, but if the gsd knows how to kill the **** usually lacks the speed to kill the dog and jaw power to kill such a dog. They can tear a dog up pretty bad sometimes. They will be able to fight off most gsds but if the gsd is dead set on killing it and the the gsd uses its brain will kill it by getting it from the back of its head, the same way large hunting dogs will kill them. ***** lack the thick hide of the weasel family like a wolverine for example. So they do die from animals that have very powerful jaws. Something like a wolverine has VERY thick hide and a strong skull a gsd wont be able to kill one.


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## Fox944

pets4life said:


> The only reason that coyote got over 60 pounds is because it is a eastern coyote an eastern coyote is a coywolf. No eastern coyotes are pure coyotes most of them have eastern red wolf in them.
> 
> 
> NO pure coyote is going to be more than 50 pounds EVER. the 70 pound mONSTER is mostly wolf. Its a eastern coyote. Not a pure coyote. That is why it got that big. Pure coyote Probably never got bigger than 40 pounds. The eastern red wolves made them get bigger. But still NO one is ever going to come across a coyote more than 55 pounds no matter how big the coyotes looks. I saw a dead one that looked 90 pounds with its fur it looked so much bigger than my dog. It was only 45 pounds.


Eastern Coyote's have Wolf DNA, albeit not much. However, that is exactly why they are larger then their Western Counterparts. That said, even a 60LBS Eastern Coyote is an anomaly.....majority are going to be in the 40-50lbs range. With very few exceptions being larger then that. 

Which is why I say, no one is going to run into a pack of 60+bs Coyote's. If they do, they are encountering Wolves, not Coyotes. 

Furthermore, they don't inbreed. It happens, but its very very rare that a Wolf & Coyote inbreed (likewise with Dogs & Coyotes). The Eastern Coyote wont breed with a Grey Wolf (despite the fact that they have some Wolf DNA in them). They opportunists. The only time they inbreed is when they are on the verge of being extinct in the region....which is exactly how Coydogs come to be. But study's have proven that Coydogs are few and far in btwn relative to Coyote populations.


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## pets4life

fox yes it is wolf dna but not the wolves everyone thinks about the giant grey wolf


its the tiny algonquin red wolf which are now considered another species by many


A lot of people do not know this and when people say the coyotes are half wolf or part wolf they think of the true grey wolf. No coyote that I have ever heard of has ever mixed with a real grey wolf.


On the outskirts of algonquiin eastern wolves will mate with coyotes. They are not that far apart. I don't think people can tell the diff between a ea stern wolf and a eastern coyote. They are almost the exact same. 

I don't think any of our eastern coyotes are even pure coyotes. I have just about every book there is on them. 


Grey wolf is something that can easily be told apart. Some are pure white.

some coyotes might have a bit of dog in them usually when coyotes take over a new area they might mate with the stray farm dogs. Very rare in the north tho like you said.


----------



## Lilie

selzer said:


> We have raccoons. And I do NOT want my dogs to EVER tangle with a raccoon. Coyotes are bigger than raccoons, and I don't want them to tangle with them either. Do I think a 45 pound raccoon might be able to kill my 65 or 75 pound female GSD? Well, actually, I don't care if the dog is able to fight off the coyote, I really don't want to have to mop up the dog, and stitch up the dog, and feed the dog antibiotics, etc.


I'm with you. In fact...part of my training for my game dog is to train him NOT to trash on ****, yotes & hogs. He isn't running in a pack. He WILL get hurt. He's my dog. I don't want him hurt. 

AND...I personally know of a Pit who was a feral hog catch dog. He got into a scrape in the field with a large male ****. No, he didn't die, but the **** clung to his face and managed to pop both the Pit's eyes. Along with other various, serious injuries to the dog's face. 

This was a dog who was successful in catching and holding wild boars. Mean, horrible, monster animals, but was no match for a ****. And yes, they know it was the ****, because they killed the **** to remove it from the dog's face.


----------



## pets4life

I know dogs that have lost eyes to cats also. I had a cat that sliced a large dogs tongue. I also saw a male tom cat maul a pit bull in self defense that attacked it so bad that his nails got stuck right into his snout. All his nails broke off right into the dogs face. On the other hand ive read about pits killing horses by themselves. 


Problem with pits well this is what I have seen from them. THey grab the wrong part of the animal and they hang on and dont let go. This can work on grabbing some hogs ears but not if they do it on some animals with teeth and claws. LIke a pit grabbed onto a coyotes tail and refused to let go. The coyote tore the pits face Right open. They dont use their heads much and they stay in the fight forever cause they can take so much pain. THey would grab a bobcats leg and then just lacerated. 

A dog who uses its mind more wont hang on it will grab the throat of the animal or the back of its head. A dog like a border collie with experience is not a big strong dog but a very smart killer because it knows what to do. The pit could have killed the **** easy he just didnt know the proper way to do it. 


Just like those tiny dogs padderdales? They kill badgers in holes. They are small dogs, fierce and all but a coyote or eagle or owl would kill them in a second. A badger is much more powerful than any **** the way they are built they have the most powerful thick hide on top of that very powerful claws and strong jaws. Yet small dogs have killed them under ground.

There are pet dogs in africa that learned to kill adult male baboons.


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## Lilie

True - and I didn't mean to imply that there was a problem with Pits. Or any breed of dog and their ability to defend or fight. My point was I wouldn't send out any of my dogs to fight any animal and risk any injury.


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## Fox944

Coyote......they are lightweights. Equivalent height to a GSD but 30-50LBS lighter in weight. 
A video of Coyote Penning. 




 
Some photos of a dog (much smaller/weaker then an adult GSD) making light work of a Coyote.


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## LaRen616

Fox944 said:


> Coyote......they are lightweights. Equivalent height to a GSD but 30-50LBS lighter in weight.
> A video of Coyote Penning.
> Coyote & Fox "Penning" Brutality Exposed - YouTube
> 
> Some photos of a dog (much smaller/weaker then an adult GSD) making light work of a Coyote.


These images are disturbing!

I don't want to see any animal harmed, I don't care what kind of animal it is.


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## Fox944

LaRen616 said:


> These images are disturbing!
> 
> I don't want to see any animal harmed, I don't care what kind of animal it is.


 
Agreed. Im glad penning is outlawed in my state. However, hunters still use traps (which should also be outlawed) and take out thousands of coyotes here annually. Its unfortunate....as it does not reduce their population numbers. They start producing more offspring when they are hunted and bring their numbers back up. 

This stuff is purely sport in other words.


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## selzer

Fox944 said:


> Agreed. Im glad penning is outlawed in my state. However, hunters still use traps (which should also be outlawed) and take out thousands of coyotes here annually. *Its unfortunate....as it does not reduce their population numbers*. *They start producing more offspring when they are hunted and bring their numbers back up*.
> 
> This stuff is purely sport in other words.


The thousands that were taken out annually, would have gotten together with the ones that remained and all would have decided collectively to put a moritorium on reproduction, I suppose, if they had not been killed.


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## Fox944

selzer said:


> The thousands that were taken out annually, would have gotten together with the ones that remained and all would have decided collectively to put a moritorium on reproduction, I suppose, if they had not been killed.


 
Actually that is exactly what they do. They control their own population based on availability of food. They also travel in packs and each pack has its own territory. These animals are a lot smarter then you think. 

Its been proven that they produce more offspring when being hunted and their numbers start to dwindle. Its also been proven that they start having smaller litters when their population is getting too large for the area they occupy. 

As I mentioned earlier. Anyone seriously interested in learning more about these great animals should do some research. "Suburban Howls" by Jonathan May is a great place to start. Awesome book written by a biologist who dedicated his work to studying Coyote's & Coydogs/Coywolfs.


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## selzer

How about, when food is scarce and they are starving they have trouble having litters, and the survival rate and number of puppies is fewer. 

If the food/game is adequate, they will reproduce at higher rates. 

I think I prefer the idea of fewer, healthier animals out there. A starving pack of coyotes is nothing to mess with.


----------



## Fox944

selzer said:


> How about, when food is scarce and they are starving they have trouble having litters, and the survival rate and number of puppies is fewer.
> .


 
Again, its been proven that they have smaller litters even when healthy for a number of reasons. (territory is a big one, as they won't allow themselves to over populate any given area). 

Human's killing Coyote's for sport isn't affecting their numbers.


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## selzer

Fox944 said:


> Again, its been proven that they have smaller litters even when healthy for a number of reasons. (territory is a big one, as they won't allow themselves to over populate any given area).
> 
> Human's killing Coyote's for sport isn't affecting their numbers.


They have an effect on the other critters too, like grouse. They do overpopulate a given area. And they will starve, especially in hard winters. There are or their aren't bag limits on coyotes for a reason. If they were endangered in any way, they would quickly limit the number to be harvested.


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## Fox944

selzer said:


> They have an effect on the other critters too, like grouse. They do overpopulate a given area. And they will starve, especially in hard winters. There are or their aren't bag limits on coyotes for a reason. If they were endangered in any way, they would quickly limit the number to be harvested.


 
They are not endangered because they have bigger litters when they are. It is nearly impossible to wipe them out (thankfully). Again, if you are interested in learning more, do some research. a good start is "Suburban Howls".


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## pets4life

great posts fox glad you see they are not the demonic monsters with abnormal power some people seem to think they are












a single gsd just recently killed 3 mini donkey in the news btw something a lone coyote could never do, they would need to do that in a small pack or something.


THe owner of the mini donkey admitted that they never had an issue though until people started to let their dogs stray. The coyotes never bothered the herd of mini donkey 18. Not to say that a group of coyote cant take these tiny donkey.


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## Lilie

I am totally against 'canned' hunts of any kind. I am not against the use of dogs to hunt.


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## blackshep

Fox944 is absolutely correct. 

I posted a link to the program the Nature of Things about the Coywolf if anyone wants to educate themselves a bit more. 

You will never rid yourself of them in your area. Anyone who things otherwise hasn't done their homework. If your resident population remains cautious of humans and you can peacefully coexist, leave them be. 

Their main diet consists of rodents and they do a great job at keeping those pests numbers down. 

They are probably watching you more than you think, and not bothering you


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## capolini1226

I have yet to see a Coyote but I am most certain they exist in Pennsylvania where I live. There is a lot of farmland, woods and hiking trails with in a few miles of my house and the Mountains are only 65 minutes away.

I never thought of this until now! I miss having my Dog run loose like my GSD that I grew up with and my GSD MIX that I had for 15 years! They would always stay by me when hiking around here or on the Appalachian trail!

So, now that I have a Siberian and he is NEVER off the leash for obvious reasons[runners/ very high prey drive!] that is actually a positive, especially for my night walks!

I walk him 6+ miles a day. Half of which is at night[ Coyotes and other nocturnal animals are out!]. We walk on a dark and relatively isolated trail. I have VERY powerful LED searchlights that I bring!! I often thought if I came across a Coyote or a rabid Animal [Fox/ Raccoon] , these high powered lights with a very intense hot spot[Center Beam] with 3500 lumens/120,000 cd w/ 700 meters of throw[beam distance]! It would blind them and most likely they will stay away anyway!

I read the first dozen or so posts on this thread and watched the youtube video of the Dog and the Coyote. I could certainly see how they[Coyote] could lure a Dog out in the woods where the rest of the pack is. GSD, Boxer, Doberman ect.,,,doesn't matter if there is a pack of Coyotes waiting in the woods!

I still would like to see a Coyote one day, from about 75 yards away!

Ciao,,,Roberto

*Capo "Cochise" Mazur- b. 12/26/2010 Siberian*
*Baron Von Mazur- 6/5/65- 7/20/77 GSD
Cochise Von Mazur-5/27/82-5/20/97 GSD/Malamute
*


----------



## pets4life

yes blackshep they are always there in the sagebrush watching and resting. People just have no idea they are there. They would be shocked to know where they are. Even a lot of dogs dont know where they are. 

Like in your video the one resting along side the highway? in ditches on young street? The most busy and populated street in canada?

Someone set up a trail came behind a bhilding in younge street toronto. They were shocked to see so many coyotes and deer pass in one night. They had no idea coyotes were there. They thought it was cats and raccooons. 

I had the picture here some place it was amazing they adapt so close to people and no one will know.

In the dark its so hard to see them they blend in so well even when they are a few meters near you and your dog like in your video.

I would NEVER see them if it was not for my dog pointing it out. 









I find foxes much easier to spot because they are not so scared of being seen same with racoons. Probably because people dont have much reaction to tiny animals and kinda just have that awww so cute lil fox. Foxes and ***** I will see very easy but coyotes so hard. Foxes will also seek shelter on the fringes of coyote territory like under your poarch. Trying to escape having their dens dug up and pups eaten. On top of that the fishers will also decimate the foxes dens. The closer the foxes live to a house the safer they are now. Here at least.










If you look behind ottawa parilment you will see racooons, stray cats and foxes all sharing a house together, in kingston I noticed a fox living with feral cats until the coyotes found out about it and killed them all off.


----------



## MTGSD

pets4life said:


> great posts fox glad you see they are not the demonic monsters with abnormal power some people seem to think they are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a single gsd just recently killed 3 mini donkey in the news btw something a lone coyote could never do, they would need to do that in a small pack or something.
> 
> 
> THe owner of the mini donkey admitted that they never had an issue though until people started to let their dogs stray. The coyotes never bothered the herd of mini donkey 18. Not to say that a group of coyote cant take these tiny donkey.


 Nice Photoshop but your missing his forelegs 
When I was a kid I had a Border Collie who loved to fight raccoons when we went to check the irrigation ditches. His long hair provided a natural armor of sort as he was quick enough that when they bit at him all they would get is a mouthful of hair. He would jump onto the raccoon and go for the back of the neck. He was great with all other animals and was trained as a herding dog. Mostly the effectiveness of a dog goes back to his agility, experience, and commitment. 
Having said that my GSDs have lacked the experience and the benefit of really long hair to makeup for errors, sheer power will only take you so far. 
I wouldn't want to expose them to the risk intentionally. 

ps: We found out about the BC skill accidentally as one day he bailed out of the truck cab before we did and caught one at the ditch. Also, shooting something your dog is fighting to save it isn't a great option due to how fast the ball of biting fur is moving. usually by the time everything slows down someone has already won.


----------



## Chicagocanine

Wow, this is an old thread.

I don't remember posting this last time so:

North Country Maturing Gardener: COY-DOGS??? MAYBE NOT!

Meet the coywolf | Toronto Star

http://www.concordmonitor.com/news/4718372-95/coyotes-coyote-schadler-wolf

In the NE US, coyote populations have been found to have wolf DNA. They are larger than pure coyotes and able to take down bigger prey.


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## blackshep

MTGSD, I think the coyotes forelegs are obscured by grass in that picture.  We've had coyotes trot past our horses and the have barely raised their heads, so it's not that unbelievable.


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## Lilie

I've watched coyotes trot through a herd of cattle and the cattle didn't even move off. The momma cows watched, but never moved.


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## Myah's Mom

Lucy Dog said:


> You need to be careful with coyotes especially if you have a curious dog. One on one a GSD may be able to hold their own, but coyotes are smart. They're very good hunters.
> 
> One will appear out of no where and bait your dog to play with it. It will get your dog to follow it into the woods where the rest of it's pack is waiting and your dog goes from being a pet to being a coyote meal.
> 
> This is actually a really good youtube video of what i'm talking about.
> 
> YouTube - Lulu vs Wile E. Coyote


Absolutely. Saw this in the southern CA mountains (Big Bear) where our neighbor's Golden, Frieda (spayed), was lured away from the cabin, just about 40 ft or so, then the rest of the pack showed, circling "like wolves". My dad watched it happen so fast out our back window (he happened to be near the window), that he quickly ran out and made such a loud racket. The coyotes looked at him, off guard long enough for Frieda to run toward my Dad and into the house. The coyotes, normally skittish, took a while to scare off.

Neighbors thanked us (really, my Dad).

Scary.


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## Darkthunderplotts

Ok gang I don't suspect that most of you are going to pay attention to what I have to say but those who do let me lay somethings on the table. 
1. Yotes are dangerous and violent they will stalk you.
2. While they do weigh less they have to KILL their meal your dog does not.
3. I hunt with a pack of hounds on a regular basis so I am in the woods at night when most people are asleep I see and deal with things most folks read about.

My male Plott Odin's face and chest are a mess of scars from tangling with ****, bears, and bobcat. He has killed a few yote for getting to close to me,
Moon my female has some marks to from the same stuff.

I hunt yote but with calls and a rifle and no 22 lr and 223 are not good calibers for dispatching the dirty flea bitten worm infested things. 

I have hunted hogs 4 bay dogs 2 catch and a knife takes a **** of a team to hold a 400 lb hog bayed.

DO NOT let your pets engage a yote if you have a GSD that knows what to do with game that's another story its not a game and your prize pet will get killed unless it can develop that kill instinct in less than 30 seconds and the will to break bones and rip one apart.


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## Saw1583

We live out in the country and I believe coyotes killed our male black lab 3 weeks ago. It had to have been a pack though because Mars was 90lbs and rock solid. (he wasn't your average lab) He made it home that night but was unfortunately destroyed by them.


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## Myah's Mom

With Myah, I was walking her along a canyon in a suburban area. On our side of the fence was a landscaped walkway, nice lighting and several condos. The other side of the fence was a deep canyon, known to be full of deer, coyotes and the like.

At 10pm, Myah and I took a walk. We usually see one or two other people walking their dogs along the well-lit, landscaped walkway, too.

Myah stopped and started shaking, abruptly. My eyesight isn't very good without my glasses, so it took me a while to peer ahead to see what she was looking at. Sure enough, in the bushes right up against the short, wrought iron fence, was a lanky, gray coyote. His head was hung low, his eyes staring at us and he obviously had no intent on moving or being skittish. Myah and I took a few steps along our walk, and he did too, right along the fence. 

Finally, I decided to shout and stomp my feet at him to scare him away. It took a while! How far away he went, who knows, but it was out of sight.

A little while later, I saw a woman bring her little white fluffy dog out to potty. She carried her little bundle of joy and put him/her down on the grass. I told her about the danger of coyotes, and that we had just seen one.

She said, "Really? I doubt that. Are you sure you saw ALL of it, to know what it was?"

I said, "Absolutely, I saw the head, two eyes, four feet and the tail. It stalked Myah as we walked. Better be careful with your small dog, as they can hop the fence and nab your dog in a second."

She replied, "I am offended that you would try to scare me like that" and walked off.

Sigh... Live and learn.


----------



## redandgold

Myah's Mom said:


> With Myah, I was walking her along a canyon in a suburban area. On our side of the fence was a landscaped walkway, nice lighting and several condos. The other side of the fence was a deep canyon, known to be full of deer, coyotes and the like.
> 
> At 10pm, Myah and I took a walk. We usually see one or two other people walking their dogs along the well-lit, landscaped walkway, too.
> 
> Myah stopped and started shaking, abruptly. My eyesight isn't very good without my glasses, so it took me a while to peer ahead to see what she was looking at. Sure enough, in the bushes right up against the short, wrought iron fence, was a lanky, gray coyote. His head was hung low, his eyes staring at us and he obviously had no intent on moving or being skittish. Myah and I took a few steps along our walk, and he did too, right along the fence.
> 
> Finally, I decided to shout and stomp my feet at him to scare him away. It took a while! How far away he went, who knows, but it was out of sight.
> 
> A little while later, I saw a woman bring her little white fluffy dog out to potty. She carried her little bundle of joy and put him/her down on the grass. I told her about the danger of coyotes, and that we had just seen one.
> 
> She said, "Really? I doubt that. Are you sure you saw ALL of it, to know what it was?"
> 
> I said, "Absolutely, I saw the head, two eyes, four feet and the tail. It stalked Myah as we walked. Better be careful with your small dog, as they can hop the fence and nab your dog in a second."
> 
> She replied, "I am offended that you would try to scare me like that" and walked off.
> 
> Sigh... Live and learn.


Jeez. People are so stupid.

Thankfully, we don't have coyotes in Ireland...


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## pets4life

saw where do you live? i bet a cougar took him.

MTGSD the forlegs are hidden in the grass do you want videos of pronghorns chasing coyotes?


if your lab spent a lot of time in the wild this might have happened to him 

http://retrieverman.net/2011/03/28/feral-labrador-and-coyote-form-partnership/

a 90 pound lab would be a huge asset to a pack like the one above


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## pets4life

also check this out coyotes never bothered the mini donkey, the owner had no issues with coyotes but when a gsd got free it took down 3 mini donkey 

Viscous Dog Attacks

*
o please don't tell people that minis make guard animals. Ours were part of a herd of 18 and could not defend themselves against a German Shepherd and a Retriever/Irish Setter mix (owned by the same people). He kept the donkey from running while the Shepherd did the biting. While miniature donkeys may be able to fend off a non aggressive pet dog that will enter their pasture or keep coyotes out (which in my point of view pose a much lesser danger to our animals than domestic dogs) - they are defenseless toward viscous dog attacks because of their size. I am not speaking for the large standard or mammoth donkeys - but for animals the size of miniature donkeys, miniature lamas etc.

*
*http://www.urbanwildness.com/urbanwildness.com/Understanding_Coyote_Behavior.html


*
A number of coyotes have been known to follow early morning dog walkers, at a comfortable distance, probably out of curiosity or for entertainment. Fortunately most walkers have been amused, or even thrilled, if also curious themselves about this little animal’s behavior patterns. The coyote of course is curious about the dog following the human, not the human. And more rarely, some of the coyotes can get quite enthusiastic, bouncing back and forth with excitement trying to engage the dog’s attention. Maybe they want to play, as they have seen other dogs do, but their instincts are not allowing them to fully follow through. Or maybe they are messaging the dog to move on. The important thing to remember is that th*e coyote in such a situation is unlikely to be “stalking” you.
*


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## pets4life

The coyotes here where they are the biggest most powerful in ontario do follow SOME dog walkers. 


THey dont follow us just because my girl is so nasty to them and wants to kill them she thinks shes the terminator or something. But they have followed other people who have dogs that ignore them.


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## lennoxbradley88

One night my uncle heard a commotion going on in his backyard. When he got up and walked out to see what was going on. He encountered a mountain lion eating his small outdoor dog. He said when the cat saw him it jump his wall and took off. Penny was such an amazing dog. All along he was always worried about the coyotes he forgot there were also mountain lions around. What was more surprising is that he lives in Hacienda Heights, but there have been a few mountain lions and coyotes spotted around the area.


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## pets4life

yes pumas and leopards are huge dog eaters, i feel for them but they do have the power to back it up and does not take them much effort, coyotes eat from cougar kills and can stay out of a cougars way with keen hearing, smarts and fast speed. Grey Wolves diminish coyote populations. Cougars will kill a coyote but they are usually outsmarted and cant catch one. 











A white gsd was killed not far from here and they caught the action








big cats can drag a dog or person even off alive in silence by a throat grab


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## pets4life

Black bears are also all over they will kill a dog if they feel the dog is a threat. People never see a black bear in their area because suprising dispite their size they stay hidden really well. Big game animals like moose or elk will also kill dogs rather than run from one. These can be found in the strangest areas where you never expect.


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## pets4life

I dont get why people would allow their dogs near them?


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## chicagojosh

OP, I think it's time to do some hunting....


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## elisabeth_00117

I am in SW Ontario as well, we see and hear them on the trails around here every time we are out in the evening or early mornings (KW area). I have had 2 run ins with them this year, once with Zefra off leash in the bush, ran right by us and I thought it was a off leash dog, so called her back, she didn't see or smell it thank goodness, too busy playing with her little buddy.

Second was closer to Windsor, just outside of Essex, ON, on my parents property (acreage). A pack of them (about 4?) were about 10ft from the front door as I was letting out my dogs for their last potty break around 10pm. They have a Min. Poodle and it is never out by itself now in the evening or early mornings because of this issue. My dogs heard and smelled the pack of them this time and if they were not on lead, I have no doubt in my mind that there would of been a nasty fight. They were pissed that this pack was on our property and so close to the house. We usually hear them when we visit but from a bit of a distance, this time they were super mad.

Be very careful because there was a few livestock (sheep) that have been taken down by around here as well as some young calves. My parents neighbour had their whole chicken coop destroyed in one night because of them - their farm dog (a big lab mix, aprx. 90lb dog) was also very hurt from fighting with them - not sure how many there were though.


----------



## Myshepherdmia

i have a full blooded german shepherd she is about 3years old shes been an inside dog since i brought her home, last march i had to move back in with parents and she became outside dog i always heard the coyotes out here but didnt think they would attack a 70lb shepherd, last monday night they got ahold of her they bit and grabbed her back leg and pulled hard enough to dislocate her hip, i dont know how many there were im assuming 2, i dont think one coyote could of done that much damage, she was on a cable outside and it wasnt broke but somehow it came loose. poor puppy i felt so bad and i couldnt do anything i wasnt home and my parents didnt hear anything, when my mom came out she said mia was just standing there she said her name and she wouldnt move so mom went to her and mia tried to move and screamed, it happened around 9:00pm. she is very lucky and im glad she survived. they got her hip popped back in place and she has 5 stitches and her dewclaw is gone cage rest for 3 weeks. i went out next day there were scratches all over so she put up a fight, they must of snuck up on her and grabbed her hind leg and just pulled and drug her. mia is always sniffing and watching out for things she has always been a very scitish and scared of everything dog and very loveable and protective over me, she isnt a fighter at all. i wish i would of sent her to k9 school and maybe the coyote would of been laying out there dead instead of mia beeing in pain now.


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## mattyg1405

i think the bottom line here is it depends on your dog, and how game he is on fighting / surviving. i see coyotes often here on my yard and they are definitely curious about my dog, but they never have attacked, i also would never leave my dog tied to the lead at night because if your dog is tied and cannot get away from an altercation you definitely are lessening the odds of your dogs survival if he is attacked. 

the coyotes used to come up to the woods line ad kind of toy with my GSD running back and forth, now that my dog is older and knows his job i havent seen a single coyote in sight if my dog is outside. 

i talk to my grandfather who has 4 acres backed up against my land and he used to breed german shepherds for a very long time, the only issue he ever had was close encounter when he had one of his studs tied up a pack of coyotes started to stalk / attack, the dogs in the kennel were going nuts. lucky enough he was in the barn and working on something and was able to make enough commotion to scare them away. (this happened at night) now who knows if those few coyotes were just investigating or really hunting, all i know is that at night i dont leave my dog attached to a lead un attended.

i definitely wouldnt send my dog after a coyote for no reason because i really dont know how well he would handle a real fight and i would never want to find out, but i also know some of this talk about coyotes killing any full grown dog is total bull****, my wifes dog (GSD) who lives with her mother kills every single living animal that has ever entered his fenced in yard, coyote, raccoon, opossum, rabbits, and squirrels, i know for sure he knows exactly how to kill something. my gsd on the other hand has only gotten 1 squirrel, and almost got a rabbit. im not gonna let him get tangled up with a coyote for any reason i can control, after all he is like my son i wouldnt want anything to happen to him, especially with all the disease those coyotes carry.


----------



## FortheLoveofChari

AbbyK9 said:


> Well, my dear ...
> 
> The reason I commented on law enforcement officers' shooting is that I used to shoot at a range where many of them practiced when I lived in Virginia. We had various local departments, state troopers, department of energy, etc. who practiced there. A lot of the local police and troopers were very bad shots and did some very unsafe weapons handling.
> 
> We had one sheriff's deputy shoot himself in the buttocks right there on the range. So I think it's a pretty good bet to say that I'm a better shot AND spend more time training with my firearms than they do.
> 
> I don't know what the SEALs marksmanship requirements are, but I can tell you I've gone to the range with various military units when I was still in, and a lot of people have surprisingly poor marksmanship skills. Even in units such as 10th Mountain or 82nd. You'd be surprised.
> 
> Then again, I literally lived behind a range when I lived in VA and shot very frequently. Out there in NY I have my own 100 meter range behind the house (I live out in the country). So I probably shoot more often than most people. I used to do 3-Gun but don't anymore due to NY's stupid pistol permits (I don't pay taxes in NY - so they won't give me one).



I would like to add and say I agree with this statement. I myself do not carry, I do not feel I am suited to properly handle a weapon. I'm too whimsical and might mishandle, and I do not do well under pressure. However, my fiance is a very controlled individual and he has his CCW license (I think that is the right abbreviation) and he goes to the gun range at least once a week and practices with the man who conducted his concealed handgun license. He also helps conduct the class he has been doing it so long. They do advanced training under pressure and at times he even does competitions just to keep his game up. His idea is that if anything happened that he would be ready and prepared for the situation if anyone does something. 

He isn't out looking for trouble, and has he says many times "He rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it." That is what he says to those who are against guns. 

I know fully well that my fiance is a better shot than many of our officers out there. He practices every week and he practices under pressure. 

I wouldn't say anything about the seals and don't know why someone would throw that out there. He was speaking of our police. Seals are another thing entirely...and a ridiculous thing to mention. 

I respect the seals. They do some heavy ****! So yeah, I would say a *responsible* gun-toting american is a good shot and could defend their home, family, and pets against dangers.


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## FortheLoveofChari

Sorry! I realized how old that thing was and then realized how...yeah...but yeah..


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