# What do you bring with you on walks for protection?



## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

So I was with Mila this morning going for a walk down to the beach. I like to take her in the morning because less people are out and she can burn off some of her energy starting the day off right. Mila is 3 months old and about 20lbs+ I need to weigh her again. Anyways, we were walking and there was an older man looked like he was in his 80's or so walking his little chihuahua about 20ft down the path. Mila sat down to take a sniff of nature so I decided we would just wait for them to go by then keep walking. 

I had her leash shortened up just to make sure I had a good hold on her incase the little dog excited her, I didn't want the older man to be nervous that she would reach them. Maybe it was a bad idea now in hindsight. He stopped once he saw her and was making eye contact with me as he reached down to the ground. I thought in my head for some reason that he was going to be picking up a stick because the way he was looking at Mila. When he came back up I saw that he had not just picked up a stick but lifted up a huge log about a foot around and 2 feet long! I was surprised. It looked like something to knock me out with, I am only 5'2" not my puppy. 

I got a VERY, VERY uneasy feeling about the situation. I watched him carry it as he came towards us down the path. The whole time Mila was just sitting there silent not being threatening or aggressive in any way. The manner in which this guy did this was a clear message saying, "I got this in case your dog comes after my little dog". I kept my eye on him the whole time as he passed us and made sure I was in between Mila and him. She didn't bark or anything when they went by, he then randomly commented that she was "going to be a handful to handle". I said nothing and kept going.

I watched them keep walking and saw him throw the log down once they got further out of reach. It may sound silly but the situation was upsetting to me. I had never felt nervous or anything like that before with her or as concerned for her safety. I felt vulnerable because I knew if anything would have sparked him the situation would have gone badly because that log was no joke and could have caused serious damage to myself or Mila. I also knew that to the cops an elderly man with his little dog would make us automatically look like the aggressors since Mila is still a GSD who even as a puppy can be intimidating to some. Thankfully nothing more happened but it really made me think about needing something to protect ourselves when we are out since you never know what situation you can run into. 

I would never want to have any situation with my dog turn into a serious one but I do realize that people are unpredictable and it is best to have something for safety and never have to use it then not having it when I unexpectedly need it, whatever "it" may be. So what if anything do you guys bring with you on walks with your dog for protection/safety?


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I walk with a Leki trekking pole for stability on these bumpy dirt roads. It has a point on the end of it that would suffice as a protection, I Hope! I want to carry a squirt bottle of ammonia, too, but I cannot find ammonia anywhere here!


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Well Erica0629, I was going to suggest a 9mm but I see you live in California so I guess that's out. Not knowing enough about your states laws I can't suggest much more than possibly a big stick?


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

squerly said:


> Well Erica0629, I was going to suggest a 9mm but I see you live in California so I guess that's out. Not knowing enough about your states laws I can't suggest much more than possibly a big stick?


I think stun guns are legal I know tasers are out, expandable batons are also a big no no...


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Quick wit and a heavy foot.


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## SamsontheGSD (Dec 23, 2016)

Erica0629 said:


> squerly said:
> 
> 
> > Well Erica0629, I was going to suggest a 9mm but I see you live in California so I guess that's out. Not knowing enough about your states laws I can't suggest much more than possibly a big stick?
> ...


Such different worlds. Here in South Carolina I'm pretty sure I could carry a bazooka and it would be legal. That said, I never have felt like that was necessary. I always have figured if someone is going to attack me when i have a GSD they must be nuts anyway.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Pepper spray and sometimes a skinning knife. In my state it is legal to carry a pistol, so when I get a pistol I will carry that as well.

I also carry a parting stick as a precautionary tool, for my dog.

My husband and I bought a taser walking cane for my father in law because he was attacked by two GSDs on a walk, the sound alone from the taser is terrifying. My in laws have small dogs though, so it was a dangerous situation.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

A well trained GSD


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Here's the thing you've got to remember living in California (I moved from there about 18 month ago). If you arm yourself with a club of any kind that is a Felony/wobbler in the State of California 22210 P.C. So the way around that is to get a legitimate walking stick and that is lawful for you to possess. If you use it as a weapon your explanation is simple. I was being attacked and all I had was my walking stick to defend myself. 


The crazy thing about California is if you carried a loaded firearm (as long as you are not prohibited from possessing a firearm and you have no weapons violation or prior arrests for weapons violation(s)) then the violation for carrying a loaded firearm is a Misdemeanor. Look at California Penal Code section 25400 for further information.


Good luck!


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Bear repellent in the mountains and collapsible baton in urban.

For you, if you're not accustomed to combat, pepper spray. And it sounds like you handled that perfectly. My former trainer is a skinny woman and carries pepper spray one her doggy pouch, for animals and humans.

Get used to those reactions from people and dogs. A lot automatically think a GSD is aggressive. I'm always surprised when people ask if my happy, sweet pup is aggressive. I guess her high, wagging tail and smile make her look ferocious.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

maxtmill said:


> I walk with a Leki trekking pole for stability on these bumpy dirt roads. It has a point on the end of it that would suffice as a protection, I Hope! I want to carry a squirt bottle of ammonia, too, but I cannot find ammonia anywhere here!


It won't provide much blunt force trauma. Good luck impaling a moving target with a ski pole


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well you handled it well ... apparently you have a well trained dog and that is always step one! You and your dog handled the situation well. But ... and I was not there ... you saw the guy approaching and you saw his concerns. So that is pretty heads up on your part. But ... "assuming" you had the space ... what would have been helpful "would have been to step aside and give them space." 

When I walk my dogs ... I don't insistent on the right way (and I am not saying you did) but if I see another dog approaching in my direction ... I will cross the street or step well aside ... my dog is behind me and I give the other dog the "Right of Way." *I don't know you I don't know your dog, you keep your distance ... I'll keep mine," is how "we" roll *... works out fine.

And the walking stick yes ... good advice I gave it myself in here.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-if-another-dog-attacks-your-while-leash.html

But a fine point with the "Walking Stick" you don't use it to strike a dog ... you use it to "Block" an offending dogs, access to your dog. Charging dogs ... don't see you ... all they see is your dog. If you get in the way ... by first having your dog behind you ... and you block them ... that gives the "offending dog" time to stop and think and perhaps decide ... "to make better choices??" And yes ... since it's been asked before a "well trained dog" will stand behind you calmly while you defend them! 

Rocky and I do ... this, all the time and it only went "wrong once" and that was my bad ... "apparently" I can't see in the dark .... who knew??? And I also did not carry a "Walking Stick" ... despite my advise! We got attacked at night by as I found out later an ex-military DDD! She got one quick hit and I spun and she retreated but I messed up ... my bad. :0 

All that said ... that guy and his sense of unease ... yeah I get it. I'm a "Bully" guy and my smallest dog ever was my "Boxer" at 65 lbs. If a dog got by me, I knew she could defend herself but ... "that never happened." 

But ... I was on a walk with my "Clients" amazingly well trained "Westie" off leash no issues ... dog stayed by side. But when we went to an area ... where we usually see no dogs ... there was a women with a "White GSD" and her dog was on leash and clearly under control. Nonetheless her dog was "staring at mine" and it made me "uncomfortable!" She looked like the "is your dog friendly type?? And I have "Zero" interest in such encounters in any case but with a small dog ... I felt particularly uncomfortable?? That feeling was new for me?? I put the leash back on my charge ... and we quickly got of "Dodge!" 

So while that guy may have made a "poor choice" in insisting on his right of way ... he does earn my respect for being willing to defend his dog. Walking a small breed dog around unknown dogs was a bit more anxiety filled than I expected???


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Yeah I wouldn't rely on any non professionally trained dog to protect against humans. From dogs? Sure, my dog has no fear, but he has never experienced a person trying to attack him or I, there's no telling, he might try to protect, he more than likely would just run. So I carry pepper spray and a skinning knife to protect against people.

Any medium-large dog, especially with a particularly intimidating appearance, will deter attackers however.

Side note, at 3 months this puppy should have looked like a puppy, they don't really look like dogs until around 5 months. Any intelligent person who has dog experience should know that puppies don't have what it takes to attack and be 'dangerous'. He also said GOING to be a handful, he knew it was a puppy. That is the most unsettling part about this, this man was prepared to clobber a puppy.


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## VTGirlT (May 23, 2013)

Really the biggest thing, and maybe its just my personality. But communication was lacking. You can even practice before going out! Even if he is a good man or a bad man. If his intentions were just concern of your dog and he was willing to hit your dog. Than your concern should be alleviating that concern of his or directing him so he doesn't have to decide. "Hey! I have my dog on a leash, mine is in training, please keep a distance!" If you get weird or "uppity" vibes from someone, be a b*tch like me, "Please stay away from my dog, were in training." Or in the case of my fear aggressive dog to strangers, i pick her up in last resort conditions, as EVERYONE wants to pet her. 
Also, in the case of a dog, once a pitbull ran up to us. I picked up her because the pitbull had clear intentions of attempting to attack her, so i picked her up so if he got her, it would just be feet/leg and not vital organ area. (My dog has total trust in me clearly lol) And i used my foot/leg to push/kick the pitty back from us. I am willing to get bit for my dog! Eventually the owner came over. I was furious with her... "MY BABY!!!" (As i'm holding my 80 pound GSD) lol 


I plan on buying a handgun, 9mm would do it. I would use on a human if needs be. Make sure if you buy a gun, you learn safety and how to use it properly otherwise your just handing over a weapon to the enemy essentially.. 

Also i carry pepper spray. I can use on a dog or a human. 

With human predators the best thing to do is to show them you are a fighter, most predators don't want to go after someone who is willing to fight back. So making eye contact, and using an authoritative tone of voice can help in those situations. "STAY BACK!" I would rather be rude to a nice person, than to be nice to a bad person, and regret not having my bad ass side on that time, because i didn't want to hurt someone'es feelings. 

Also for less serious cases in dogs, you can get a "pet corrector" spray, that has compressed air.

Because i am a ranter here is a quick summary:  

More communication, take a self-defense class
Pet Corrector- compressed air canister to carry with you for dogs
Pepper spray for human or dog, or other wild animals
Depending on where you live, a handgun, learn safety and how to use it.

Oh and sometimes keeping another leash around your body (for quick access) for a loose dog coming up to you can be helpful, if its off leash with or without the owner.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

An eighty year old guy and a chihuahua? You don't have to kill anyone. Get over it. The old guy was protecting his little bitty dog. He's old. Have some understanding. Its not tha big a deal. Carry pepper spray. Thats what I carry in case of criminals,crazys or .... breed of fighting dog not allowed to be mentioned.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> An eighty year old guy and a chihuahua? Get over it. The old guy was protecting his little bitty dog. He's old. Have some understanding. Its not tha big a deal. Carry pepper spray. Thats what I carry in case of criminals,crazys or .... breed of fighting dog not allowed to be mentioned.


So a man with a log is prepared to hit your 3 month old puppy, and you wouldn't care. Lol got it.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

pick up the puppy and keep walking. Got it. I am an RN and thirty years experience with the elderly.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

Nurse Bishop said:


> An eighty year old guy and a chihuahua? You don't have to kill anyone. Get over it. The old guy was protecting his little bitty dog. He's old. Have some understanding. Its not tha big a deal. Carry pepper spray. Thats what I carry in case of criminals,crazys or .... breed of fighting dog not allowed to be mentioned.


My dog is a puppy and not a full grown dog, she was not posing as a threat, like I said she didn't bark or even pay much attention to them. I never said I was going to kill anyone or be as dramatic as you are making it out to be. I simply asked what people carry because I didn't have anything on me at the time and I wanted to get some ideas from others. 

I'm 5'2" and a smaller female who was simply walking my dog minding my own business and a man much taller than me picked up a log that could easily have done damage if he freaked out. I am not going to assume just because he is older he is harmless. I couldn't be sure that if Mila would have tried to just say hello or go towards the dog or him (in a friendly manner) that he wouldn't have tried to use it. He was clearly that nervous about her. Maybe you should try to have some understanding as well. This is a man walking his dog in a dog friendly area where plenty dogs of all size walk. If he is that nervous of a puppy not barking and sitting on the side of the path then maybe he should not be walking his dog in that area.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Erica0629 said:


> ..............
> I would never want to have any situation with my dog turn into a serious one but I do realize that people are unpredictable and it is best to have something for safety and never have to use it then not having it when I unexpectedly need it, whatever "it" may be. So what if anything do you guys bring with you on walks with your dog for protection/safety?



Erica, I hate you had that experience. I had an older guy flip out on me one day because Ranger was off leash (3 month old pup) I pointed him to the cops who were about 50 yards from us and told him to go talk to them. So I know what you are talking about.

I dont know if you have seen any of my videos but on a recent one I was talking about this guy came out of nowhere in the middle of nowhere and he looked like he was fresh out of the mountains. When you are out the scariest predators are the 2 legged kind but there are still coyotes, rattle snakes and I have heard of dog packs running wild that will attack a single dog.

I must say though that I have had a few experiences where my life was in peril. You will never catch me anywhere without a pistol or two.

I would recommend a hand gun if you are fortunate enough to live in a state that allows carry.

Just my .02


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

Chip18 said:


> Well you handled it well ... apparently you have a well trained dog and that is always step one! You and your dog handled the situation well. But ... and I was not there ... you saw the guy approaching and you saw his concerns. So that is pretty heads up on your part. But ... "assuming" you had the space ... what would have been helpful "would have been to step aside and give them space."
> 
> When I walk my dogs ... I don't insistent on the right way (and I am not saying you did) but if I see another dog approaching in my direction ... I will cross the street or step well aside ... my dog is behind me and I give the other dog the "Right of Way." *I don't know you I don't know your dog, you keep your distance ... I'll keep mine," is how "we" roll *... works out fine.
> 
> ...



The path was about 6ft wide and I did make sure to stay on the opposite side up against the bushes so they had the rest of the path to go by. I definitely agree with keeping our distance when passing just to be safe! Unfortunately it is the first time that someone has acted scared of her and it was a pretty unsettling experience. I'm glad I have this site so I can have others to relate to since I know it is something I should get used to. It absolutely reinforced the importance of keeping her socialized and trained so that she doesn't have anything else working against her!


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

I live in Texas and have my conceal carry so I carry my pistol. I also carry pepper spray, because I would much rather use that in a non-lethal situation. My godfather is former SWAT, police chief and is also a conceal carry instructor so as a single woman he wasn't about to let me go out on my own without proper training.

I also run a lot and have conceal carry leggings. 

Too many stories about people danger, let alone animal danger, out there to not be realistic.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

I just wanted to point out also that his dog was the smaller one since he was the one nervous why didn't he pick his dog up if he was that concerned for its safety? Picking his dog up is a safer solution and doesn't involve attacking a dog which could provoke an attack on himself from either the dog or its owner.

Also, I like the pepper spray ideas since my state has so many limitations!


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Erica0629 said:


> I just wanted to point out also that his dog was the smaller one since he was the one nervous why didn't he pick his dog up if he was that concerned for its safety? Picking his dog up is a safer solution and doesn't involve attacking a dog which could provoke an attack on himself from either the dog or its owner.
> 
> Also, I like the pepper spray ideas since my state has so many limitations!


This assumes that all people think rationally...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

kimbale said:


> This assumes that all people think rationally...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I always make that mistake, you are right.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Erica0629 said:


> I always make that mistake, you are right.


Us people with the gift of common sense often make that mistake. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Shooter said:


> I would recommend a hand gun if you are fortunate enough to live in a state that allows carry.


She lives in California Shooter, so (unfortunately) her 2nd amendment rights have been severely curtailed.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

kimbale said:


> I live in Texas and have my conceal carry so I carry my pistol. I also carry pepper spray, because I would much rather use that in a non-lethal situation. My godfather is former SWAT, police chief and is also a conceal carry instructor so as a single woman he wasn't about to let me go out on my own without proper training.
> 
> I also run a lot and have conceal carry leggings.
> 
> ...


Conceal carry leggings, you say?
Where'd ya find those?
You can PM me if you'd rather.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Erica0629 said:


> My dog is a puppy and not a full grown dog, she was not posing as a threat, like I said she didn't bark or even pay much attention to them. I never said I was going to kill anyone or be as dramatic as you are making it out to be. I simply asked what people carry because I didn't have anything on me at the time and I wanted to get some ideas from others.
> 
> I'm 5'2" and a smaller female who was simply walking my dog minding my own business and a man much taller than me picked up a log that could easily have done damage if he freaked out. I am not going to assume just because he is older he is harmless. I couldn't be sure that if Mila would have tried to just say hello or go towards the dog or him (in a friendly manner) that he wouldn't have tried to use it. He was clearly that nervous about her. Maybe you should try to have some understanding as well. This is a man walking his dog in a dog friendly area where plenty dogs of all size walk. If he is that nervous of a comat some idementia uppy not barking and sitting on the side of the path then maybe he should not be walking his dog in that area.


 people on here are saying what kind of gun to carry. Believe me, you can outrun an eighty year old man no matter how tall you are. Lots of old feeble guys have some level of dementia. Their little teeny dog may be all they have in this world. Heres what I would have said " Yes sir" take up your puppy and keep walking.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

squerly said:


> She lives in California Shooter, so (unfortunately) her 2nd amendment rights have been severely curtailed.


Now I feel like a buttocks. Sorry Erica, down here guns are so common that Ive never been to a wedding where they weren't part of the ceremony. :surprise:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Erica0629 said:


> The path was about 6ft wide and I did make sure to stay on the opposite side up against the bushes so they had the rest of the path to go by. I definitely agree with keeping our distance when passing just to be safe! Unfortunately it is the first time that someone has acted scared of her and it was a pretty unsettling experience. I'm glad I have this site so I can have others to relate to since I know it is something I should get used to. It absolutely reinforced the importance of keeping her socialized and trained so that she doesn't have anything else working against her!


Ok there you go! You did nothing wrong and yes ... not all of us have space to "step aside??" 

I'm not a litte guy dog owner myself (although ... I do want to get one) but my experiance with my clients "Westie" ... I found unfamiliarly "uncomfortable???" When I walked my "Struddell" at my high point ... she had me ... my "American Bandogge" and Rocky my "OS Wl GSD" on pointe ... "no dog ... was getting to her! We never had an "issue." But just me and my clients little "Westie" and the staring ...full grown ... "White GSD" ... yeah ... I felt "uncomfortable???" 

That "Westie" was a dog that could not stand up to a "mistake by the handler???" That "situation of vulnerability" was new to me??? So we got out of dodge ... worked out fine. 

As for choosing to gun down an "Old Man" and his "Chihuahua" as a viable option?? What can I say ... except ... that's why I chose to avoid other owners and there dogs.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> Conceal carry leggings, you say?
> Where'd ya find those?
> You can PM me if you'd rather.


I buy UnderTech, but there are several brands that make clothes for the savvy, gun-toting runner. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

Shooter said:


> Now I feel like a buttocks. Sorry Erica, down here guns are so common that Ive never been to a wedding where they weren't part of the ceremony. :surprise:


haha no worries it would sure be a simple solution wouldn't it! Enjoy your ability to exercise that freedom!!!


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

MyHans-someBoy said:


> Conceal carry leggings, you say?
> Where'd ya find those?
> You can PM me if you'd rather.


I have recently been using bugbite. Best leg holster Ive ever had. I forget that I have a 2nd gun on me sometimes.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

kimbale said:


> MyHans-someBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Conceal carry leggings, you say?
> ...


Thanks. I gotta check into that!


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

Shooter said:


> MyHans-someBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Conceal carry leggings, you say?
> ...


Cool! Thanks Shooter!


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I would have probably started a conversation with the older gentleman. A lot of times that will put people at ease. If after that he was a jerk then open up your trench coat to reveal your sawed off shot gun. Loaded with double aught buck. Then just calmly say. NO WARNING SHOTS. 
LOL. Just kidding about the Shotgun. However, I do try and engage people. A lot of times you can visually see the fear or unease change to calm and relaxed. You never know his experiences. His dog may have just gotten attacked by a gsd last week?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My dog......

O'SuperG


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> pick up the puppy and keep walking. Got it. I am an RN and thirty years experience with the elderly.


Yep because people over 70 never commit crimes or hurt people, even animals.


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## MyHans-someBoy (Feb 23, 2013)

cdwoodcox said:


> I would have probably started a conversation with the older gentleman. A lot of times that will put people at ease. If after that he was a jerk then open up your trench coat to reveal your sawed off shot gun. Loaded with double aught buck. Then just calmly say. NO WARNING SHOTS.
> LOL. Just kidding about the Shotgun. However, I do try and engage people. A lot of times you can visually see the fear or unease change to calm and relaxed. You never know his experiences. His dog may have just gotten attacked by a gsd last week?[/
> 
> Yeah, we know you are kidding.
> ...


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I usually have a gun on me even though our gun laws are also very strict, I'm lucky though because I live in a rural area and most places I'm walking are my own family farm or neighbor's farms. It's very normal around here to have a rifle in your vehicle year round even though it's illegal in most situations. Aside from that I always have a medium sized foldable knife on me, comes in handy for all kinds of non self defense things too. You have to be careful on the legalities of anything for self defense, there are some areas where even pepper spray is illegal, pretty ridiculous. I think you reacted very well to that situation however I would have looked into reporting it to the police, sounds like he was threatening you/your dog. What kind of a nut job threatens a 3 month old puppy and a young woman, this guy definitely has a few screws loose.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Alien Gear Cloak Tuck 3.0 for me or a Kydex IWB. I also carry a CRKT knife and a ASP Baton.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

ausdland said:


> It won't provide much blunt force trauma. Good luck impaling a moving target with a ski pole


Is there something else you may suggest? I usually have a Gerber knife with me.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

maxtmill said:


> Is there something else you may suggest? I usually have a Gerber knife with me.


You know, I shouldn't have commented on what makes you feel safe; however, a solid wood hiking pole with a metal tip might make a better impact weapon than a ski pole.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

People who carry a gun- are you ready, able, and trained to be able to safely and effectively draw, aim, and fire your weapon in a high tension, high stress situation? Do you practice at the range at least monthly to hone your skills?

Also, people who carry, are you mentally prepared to make an instantaneous decision to take someone's life? 

Carrying a gun is a big responsibility. I hope people who carry are doing so responsibly.

I've known and respect people who carry responsibly. But to carry a gun and not be properly trained or prepared for any scenario is a safety issue for everyone around you, and scares me far more than an 80 year old man with a stick. 

Mace, and a walking stick should be enough protection or deterrent, if your dog isn't enough deterrent already. A well trained GSD is pretty much enough to prevent attacks from almost anyone.

Most attackers are looking for a soft target, and with a GSD along, you are not a soft target.

If someone picked up a stick when they saw me and my dogs- and they have- I'd just give them wide berth. It's not going to be possible to talk someone out of their fear of your GSD. I've learned to just yield- yield trail, go around, whatever. I'm not going to change their mind, and I'd prefer to avoid a confrontation. Reactive people, like reactive dogs, are happiest when the perceived threat just "goes away".


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Muskeg said:


> People who carry a gun- are you ready, able, and trained to be able to safely and effectively draw, aim, and fire your weapon in a high tension, high stress situation? Do you practice at the range at least monthly to hone your skills?
> 
> Also, people who carry, are you mentally prepared to make an instantaneous decision to take someone's life?
> 
> ...


I shot my first gun around 6 or 7, when went to hunters ed as a young teen, so I learned to handle a weapon. No one is ever really prepared to take a life. Veterans will tell you the same, they were not ready for that. I live in a state where it is legal to carry a pistol as long as it is visible, many many people do around here, trained or not, and I have not heard of accidental shootings as a result, not even that many self defense shootings actually. If a GSD doesn't deter someone, a holstered pistol surely will.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

In the time it takes someone to draw a pistol, turn the safety off, point and aim, and squeeze an attacker can be on you. Could take your weapon, or it could accidentally go off. 
Mace is quicker. 
I'm not antigun either. Just realistic.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

Just thought I should include a picture of Mila, this is on her morning walk the day before this happened  She was being a very good girl sitting still so I could get a picture!


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Haha! Fierce looking, isn't She?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Erica0629 said:


> My dog is a puppy and not a full grown dog, she was not posing as a threat, like I said she didn't bark or even pay much attention to them. I never said I was going to kill anyone or be as dramatic as you are making it out to be. I simply asked what people carry because I didn't have anything on me at the time and I wanted to get some ideas from others.


Aww don't sweat it ... I'll go out on a log here ... 

And state that gunning down a log carrying, 80 year old man and his "Chihuahua" strikes most of us as a bit ... extreme???


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Erica0629 said:


> Just thought I should include a picture of Mila, this is on her morning walk the day before this happened  She was being a very good girl sitting still so I could get a picture!


Well maybe it was becasue she ... no I got nothing, she's gorgeous.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Chip18 said:


> And state that gunning down a log carrying, 80 year old man and his "Chihuahua" strikes most of us as a bit ... extreme???


To the contrary Chip, if you catch me walking a Chihuahua at any age, just shoot me… (J/K)


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## Diegotxe (Feb 26, 2015)

I always keep a pocket knife. I use Kershaw brand. It's legal length, handy and makes me feel a little more comfortable when I'm out and about alone or when I had my boy before he passed.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

This incident initiated this conversation and I don't believe anyone was advocating shooting an old man with a Chihuahua. It was merely the situation that got the conversation started. The other side of the coin is don't underestimate an 80 year old ability to do damage to you or your dog, kid etc.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

maxtmill said:


> Haha! Fierce looking, isn't She?


That is basically how she looked when he went by, sitting super fierce with her pink leash and flower collar!!


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

RZZNSTR said:


> This incident initiated this conversation and I don't believe anyone was advocating shooting an old man with a Chihuahua. It was merely the situation that got the conversation started. The other side of the coin is don't underestimate an 80 year old ability to do damage to you or your dog, kid etc.


Well said


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## daddysprincess61716 (Mar 17, 2017)

what would you suggest for a young teen like myself to carry when walking my 8 week old puppy ?


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Chip18 said:


> Aww don't sweat it ... I'll go out on a log here ...
> 
> And state that gunning down a log carrying, 80 year old man and his "Chihuahua" strikes most of us as a bit ... extreme???


Carrying a weapon is only precautionary, I don't think anyone here would shoot anyone only SEEMINGLY threatening. I'm sure in this situation no one would have shot him unless he started to attack the puppy.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Shooter said:


> Now I feel like a buttocks. Sorry Erica, down here guns are so common that Ive never been to a wedding where they weren't part of the ceremony. :surprise:


 I enjoy the fact that out here , Dad will be sitting on the porch cleaning his gun when the guy comes to pick up the girl on the first date.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> Carrying a weapon is only precautionary, I don't think anyone here would shoot anyone only SEEMINGLY threatening. I'm sure in this situation no one would have shot him unless he started to attack the puppy.




Yes, and I'd like to add this. If someone is attacking your pup, dog, kid chances are that what they're attacking is in extreme close proximity to you. Therefore, chances are you're the next intended target of the attack. So if that is the case and you fear for your life or the life of your child then....


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Here is an interesting page to google on this subject. 
Google > deadly force kill human to protect pet in public space
If your state does not have Castle Doctrine it looks like it would be illegal to shoot someone attacking your dog in a public space. And if you did have Castle Doctrine the public space is not considered your home. You see a lot of different human opinions there but check out what the lawyers say. Dogs are legally considered property, not persons. For a more direct answer, call your local sheriff about the matter.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Here is an interesting page to google on this subject.
> Google > deadly force kill human to protect pet in public space
> If your state does not have Castle Doctrine it looks like it would be illegal to shoot someone attacking your dog in a public space. And if you did have Castle Doctrine the public space is not considered your home. You see a lot of different human opinions there but check out what the lawyers say. Dogs are legally considered property, not persons. For a more direct answer, call your local sheriff about the matter.


As RZZNSTR said, you're likely the next target. Self defense.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Its not that cut and dried. Ask your sheriff.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

To answer the OP, I carry pepper spray. A collapsible baton is a good idea.

Or I was thinking about a knife. But do you guys think I should get one for stabbing, or throwing? I feel like a stabbing knife could be better folded and stored in a purse, especially if the blade is sharp and might poke through the leather, but a throwing knife would look way cooler and I could impress passersby with my crazy skills.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> People who carry a gun- are you ready, able, and trained to be able to safely and effectively draw, aim, and fire your weapon in a high tension, high stress situation? Do you practice at the range at least monthly to hone your skills?
> 
> Also, people who carry, are you mentally prepared to make an instantaneous decision to take someone's life?
> 
> ...


In all seriousness, I could not agree more with this post. All of it.

I think it's imperative to ask yourself those questions if you are planning to carry a firearm. I know people who are licensed to carry a concealed weapon but choose to leave the gun at home if they can or if they don't need it, because carrying it commits them to a certain type of response and a certain level of responsibility. I think that kind of critical thinking is crucial with deadly weapons.

Re the fear/wide berth: I live in a city with very narrow sidewalks. It isn't always possible to pass someone and both be on the sidewalk. Usually people will just cross the street to avoid my dog, but other times I will "pull over" and put her in a sit and wait until they pass. That's typically all they need to see: She's not in their path, she's clearly under my control, and I am acknowledging that they don't want contact with her. You are not likely to change someone's mind about GSDs if they are really afraid of them, but you are definitely not going to change their minds about GSDs if you respond with any hostility whatsoever or force them to share space with your dog. 

I'll be honest, I would also be really uncomfortable with someone picking up a weapon upon seeing my dog, but that would be a cue to me to back way off or turn around or do whatever I could to avoid. Either the person is outright crazy, and I have a policy that I avoid crazy unless I am safe and have popcorn, or the person is in serious defensive mode and the best way I can defuse the situation is by removing my dog. It's safest for her, safest for me, and safest for them/their dog because I do have pepper spray that I will use if I have to. I would rather not even get into a situation in which I feel it's warranted for me to use it.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

WateryTart said:


> To answer the OP, I carry pepper spray. A collapsible baton is a good idea.
> 
> Or I was thinking about a knife. But do you guys think I should get one for stabbing, or throwing? I feel like a stabbing knife could be better folded and stored in a purse, especially if the blade is sharp and might poke through the leather, but a throwing knife would look way cooler and I could impress passersby with my crazy skills.


I liked the collapsible baton idea as well but found they are illegal in my state to carry, go figure. It looks like a stun gun is legal and unfortunately they have limitations on the sizes/amount of pepper spray you can have. Both are small enough and easily carried.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Its not that cut and dried. Ask your sheriff.


No, it's not, and you can go to prison even for self defense, but you have a choice in the moment to make. If this man attacked her puppy for no reason she can only assume she is in danger as well, there's a choice, you either protect yourself or you don't. I vote protect myself. 

Side note, you can also go to prison for pepper spraying someone in self defense.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Imagine how that would sound to a jury- defendant shoots and kills eighty year old man walking chihuahua.... in a public place..... because he might have hit her dog with a stick. 

Imagine what your local sheriff would think if you called and asked this question. His next question would be What is your name and address? 

Carry pepper spray if you are afraid. I've sprayed attacking unmentionable breed dogs with it when Inga was a small puppy, works great.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Imagine how that would sound to a jury- defendant shoots and kills eighty year old man walking chihuahua.... in a public place..... because he might have hit her dog with a stick.
> 
> Imagine what your local sheriff would think if you called and asked this question. His next question would be What is your name and address?
> 
> Carry pepper spray if you are afraid. I've sprayed attacking unmentionable breed dogs with it when Inga was a small puppy, works great.


One caveat, I think you kind of have to spray early. I don't think it will break up a fight in progress.

Poor Inga! Hopefully she was not too scared. Even all the schutzhunds wouldn't help such a young puppy.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Yea and it was five dogs. A bull mastif, two of that unmentionable breed crossed with Australian heelers, a chihuahua and a three legged dachshund. The pack appeared to be led by the three legged dachshund. It was the first three I was worried about . I picked up Inga but had one hand to fight them off with thrown rocks and a stick. One got it in the face and ran away and the others followed. This pack of loose dogs was owned by a family recently moved to the country with their 'rescues'. other times I had to spray and Australian sheep dog and an unmentionable breed. I have a can and a backup can.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Here is an interesting page to google on this subject.
> Google > deadly force kill human to protect pet in public space
> If your state does not have Castle Doctrine it looks like it would be illegal to shoot someone attacking your dog in a public space. And if you did have Castle Doctrine the public space is not considered your home. You see a lot of different human opinions there but check out what the lawyers say. Dogs are legally considered property, not persons. For a more direct answer, call your local sheriff about the matter.


 I think it would be the stand your ground law that would be for a public encounter. I am in Indiana I am not required to retreat. I have a right to stand my ground. Now the old man with a chihuahua wouldn't qualify as a self defense. But suppose 3 punks attacked someone and their pup. For all she would know they were gonna kill her dog and rape her. That would definitely be shoot type of situation. Common sense and knowing the laws before hand will make life much easier. 
I have always been told that if you carry a gun for protection 1. Carry it everywhere you legally can. 2. Only unholster or brandish weapon if you are going to shoot. 3. Shoot to kill. If there is only one story and that is yours you have a lot less of a chance of going to jail.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Obviously she would not have pulled a gun or other weapon on this guy if she had one, he did not actually go after her, just made a threat. I don't think anyone was saying she should have pulled a gun on this guy. If you have an opportunity to get away, you get away, not become the aggressor and go after them. It's self defense not offense. 

I agree 100% with those saying whoever carries a gun should have extensive amounts of training and understand the risks. It is a huge responsibility and not everyone should go and do it. Guns can save lives if used correctly, I would probably not be here today if I did not use a gun in self defense.
There are so many laws and what ifs going on in any situation there's honestly not a whole lot you can do to be 100% sure that you will not get into some kind of legal trouble if you defend yourself, whether with a gun or your own two hands. But if it truly is a life threatening situation you have to do what you can to protect yourself.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> People who carry a gun- are you ready, able, and trained to be able to safely and effectively draw, aim, and fire your weapon in a high tension, high stress situation? Do you practice at the range at least monthly to hone your skills?
> 
> Also, people who carry, are you mentally prepared to make an instantaneous decision to take someone's life?
> 
> ...


 I agree that training and then more training followed by more training should be used by anyone who carries a firearm. Practice real life situations not just a stationary target while standing stationary at the range. Shoot while moving, crawling multiple targets. And be prepared to shoot. Not going to be able to shoot don't bother buying a gun. My wife isn't a big fan of guns but I make her do enough so that if she has to she could shoot a home invader safely. 
As I explained to her ten thousand times. She has a responsibility to myself and our kids to shoot if needed. We need her alive and healthy. After I explained to her that mental trauma from a rape or violent attack would be much harder to cope with than defending herself with a gun she figured out that Yeah if she had to she could do it. 
And I'm not sure that a German Shepherd is the end all deterrent against a crazy violent criminal.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Erica0629 said:


> Just thought I should include a picture of Mila, this is on her morning walk the day before this happened  She was being a very good girl sitting still so I could get a picture!


This made me think of this thread.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

squerly said:


> To the contrary Chip, if you catch me walking a Chihuahua at any age, just shoot me… (J/K)


Aww don't be so sure. 

I tried to adopte, take possession of a very cute tiny long haired Chi from a dog hording client. It was a fail he would not let her go ... no he chose to keep her and she was "raped" and "died" because of all the unfixed males ... broke my heart. 


The other dog was fearful and anxious off his property and had never been on a leash in his 4 years of life. I took him anyway on a "test run." The leash thing for me was nothing, maybe 8 minutes or so with a SLL and the dog walked just fine on a loose leash. His other issues anxiety and fearfulness, ...yeah I could have worked on them ... but I just did not care that much and I gave him back after a week. Most likely he became Coyote food. Those people were from Oregan, and just had no clue. 

I kinda consider Chi's once properly trained as Cat's that actually give a crap about what you want. 
I do want to get a little dog one day but on walks ... it would have well muscled 4 pawed backup just in case a stray got by me. I'd luv'd a little Yorkie and she would wear a bow on her head ... I've heard from friends ... that the "bow" thing can be an issue for some "Yorkies." 

But if I'd have stayed a hard core "Bully and Boxer" guy ... I'd have never gotten "Rocky??" He was an unexpected ... serious challenge .. but no regrets by me ... I got better at the dog thing becasue of him. I still consider myself a "Boxer Guy" but GSD's are pretty cool also. I'm impressed and that can take a lot.

But I will say that if you are not completely clueless about dogs ... walking one of the little guys around "real dogs" is a bit of a different experiance???


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

In CA we are limited to 2.5 oz pepper spray canisters, I need to check if I am allowed to carry a backup on me if I want. Hopefully the laws haven't gotten that strict! The incident itself has made me aware of the need to have something extra while going out. I realize a lot of the trails here are more isolated and don't always have a lot of foot traffic during the week (which locals love!) that means if you run into anything you're on your own in the moment. I think pepper spray or gel should be fine for everyday walks and state laws


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I keep a machete in my car too, but wouldn't carry it unless in the woods.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Man people make "here" make me look tame by comparison??? In sixteen counter offensives, I have never shot stabbed or injured a single dog or harmed another person??

Only "JoJo" got past me "DDD" and I met her a couple days later and I have to say "despite Rocky" getting nipped by her ... I am glad that the use of lethal force, was not my first and only resort?? And had I followed my own advise and actually carried a walking stick to *"Block Her"* even in the dark, that nip would not have happened so ... my bad! And for multi charging dog encounters the best option, is most likely a "Boat Air Horn??" I doubt charging strays are going to be expecting that??? 

But hey this "thread" pretty much confirms my "instincts," me and my dogs ... "keep our distance." It works out well for everybody ... carry on all.


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## goldenlyre (Mar 15, 2017)

Dracovich said:


> I also carry a parting stick as a precautionary tool, for my dog.


Not to derail, but aren't parting sticks usually more damaging or just ineffective for a breed like the GSD? I've had two pit bulls (one was a mix) in the past and always kept parting sticks handy since both of mine were dog aggressive and we tended to have a lot of strays in the neighborhood. I was always told that the stick may do more harm than good to my mix because his snout wasn't quite the breed standard for an APBT or just a bully breed. Obviously I could be wrong or have just been misinformed so I was just wondering 

To respond to the OP, on walks I usually will bring a pepper spray, with my previous dogs I would bring a break stick or walk with an old walking stick I had just in case


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I would imagine ... that "Parting Sticks" are for grip and hold situations only. No matter the breed, if it's a one on one dogfight if the target goes down the other dogs is going to grip and hold. 

Rocky is a grip and hold dog the GSD we were accosted by was not a quick hit and she was outta there, when I spun around. Walking stick had a chose to carry one could have stopped her. Live and learn as they say.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> I keep a machete in my car too, but wouldn't carry it unless in the woods.


You must take forever getting ready to walk your dog. Lots of craziness out there:


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Man people make "here" make me look tame by comparison??? In sixteen counter offensives, I have never shot stabbed or injured a single dog or harmed another person??
> 
> Only "JoJo" got past me "DDD" and I met her a couple days later and I have to say "despite Rocky" getting nipped by her ... I am glad that the use of lethal force, was not my first and only resort


 You met the dog that came after your dog that night. How about the rest of the dogs, owners?


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> You must take forever getting ready to walk your dog. Lots of craziness out there:


Love the picture!! I went to an IRS office 2-3 years ago with a 6 inch knife in my pocket and the security guard had a melt down. Told me I could get 5 years in prison for taking a knife in a federal building. I told him "Dang, glad I left my gun in the truck!" Just 2 weeks ago my wife got caught with a combo brass knuckle/lock blade knife going into the courthouse. She just said " Those arent brass knuckles thats just a knife handle" The deputy just rolled her eyes and told her she could have them back on the way out.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


 Ever see that movie "the one". With jet li. At the end when he is sent to the planet Haiti. It's like that. Lol. 
I think everyone's talking most extreme situations possible. I conceal carry daily so I don't take anything with me for dog walking. But if I were a 105# female I probably would just walk with friends. Or carry something to protect myself with.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Shooter said:


> Love the picture!! I went to an IRS office 2-3 years ago with a 6 inch knife in my pocket and the security guard had a melt down. Told me I could get 5 years in prison for taking a knife in a federal building. I told him "Dang, glad I left my gun in the truck!" Just 2 weeks ago my wife got caught with a combo brass knuckle/lock blade knife going into the courthouse. She just said " Those arent brass knuckles thats just a knife handle" The deputy just rolled her eyes and told her she could have them back on the way out.


Next time, tell them you were just planning to take your dog for a walk afterwards....


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


I've walked in on a burglary, had a gun pulled on me by a relative, drove up on a shoot out, rattle snake on my patio, had a gun discharged toward me as a warning because I was on a guys land and yes believe it or not been a little too close to a momma bear and cub on the Appalachian trail.

I always carry everywhere now
I even have one on me in church nowadays, much less on a walk with my dog


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> You met the dog that came after your dog that night. How about the rest of the dogs, owners?


I explained in my thread but yes I did and there were indeed two WL GSD's there but the one that slipped out the gate was also an EX MWD DDD!

So she was a bit more focused/determined than the dogs I could see ... doing what I expected. There was also a "Irish Wolfhound mix in there!" Him I could not see at all??? Apparently there coloration ... works pretty well in the dark!

But yeah Marily met them first and then I went down there. They are going to start a "Rescue" up the street here. They were horrified when I told them what happened. And the guy and I both pointed to the suspected escape route. He immediately called JoJo forward. And she was a sweetheart ... so I saw two WL GSD's without any people issues ...whatsoever??? 

I was surprised and he had several smaller dogs and the Wolfhound mix also. All were great with people but I took note of the fact that they all went out the gate unbid when he opened it to let me in. They did not go anywhere but they did not seek permission first ... I'm not a fan of that crap. He suggested I bring Rocky down so everyone could do a proper intro. Most likely he does know how to do that "pack Intro's" ... but it's a bit out of my comfort zone. But ... I'm happy I did not stab or shoot JoJo, a "Walking Stick" to block her ... would have worked out just fine.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Shooter said:


> I've walked in on a burglary, had a gun pulled on me by a relative, drove up on a shoot out, rattle snake on my patio, had a gun discharged toward me as a warning because I was on a guys land and yes believe it or not been a little too close to a momma bear and cub on the Appalachian trail.
> 
> I always carry everywhere now
> I even have one on me in church nowadays, much less on a walk with my dog


Good Heavens, that's quite a list. I am in the peaceful rural PNW


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


As a girl who runs (and I think a lot of female runners can attest to this) you're put on edge sometimes. I get lots of cat calls, guys yelling at me from their cars, etc. And while guys may think that's funny, it's unnerving for a girl, and I live in upscale north DFW. Still unnerving. So I carry, especially after all the news about girls getting abducted while running. It's why I started running with my GSD in the first place.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I would imagine ... that "Parting Sticks" are for grip and hold situations only. No matter the breed, if it's a one on one dogfight if the target goes down the other dogs is going to grip and hold.
> 
> Rocky is a grip and hold dog the GSD we were accosted by was not a quick hit and she was outta there, when I spun around. Walking stick had a chose to carry one could have stopped her. Live and learn as they say.


In a one on one dog fight it is* normal* dog behavior to fight to submission. Once one dog goes down and submits, the victor relents. Dog fighting breeds generally will fight to the finish regardless of submission.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> You met the dog that came after your dog that night. How about the rest of the dogs, owners?


They were more caregivers than owners ... I think??? maybe all the dogs will be available later ... I don't know??

It was night property looked abandoned ... the details are here.:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/8377641-post1.html

But there were two Wl GSD's mother and daughter a Irish Wolfhound mix and three furry little brown dogs. A Balanced pack ... no issues between any of the dog and all people friendly. I was impressed.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


Walking my dog is tons of fun, all off leash, have tons of freedom and few rules we have to follow. I think you're getting it all wrong if you think I'm scared or fearful just because I carry a gun. I live on a farm outside of Baltimore city, rabid animals are around all the time, stray dogs also. Not to mention people are nuts, things can happen no matter where you are, being aware and prepared does not necessarily make you fearful or paranoid.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


It is NO fun to walk my dogs locally. It also is not safe, so I don't. I have to load them up and drive them somewhere safe. There is no fear, just practicality, experience, coupled with the view from my front porch through the years of dozens of neighborhood dogs being attacked by ill contained or leashed (either dragging their handlers or breaking loose from them) dog fighting breeds.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> In a one on one dog fight it is* normal* dog behavior to fight to submission. Once one dog goes down and submits, the victor relents. Dog fighting breeds generally will fight to the finish regardless of submission.


Oh well ... my permanently bent little finger and the first stitches in my fingers from trying to pry "Rocky's jaws open when he clamped onto my "Band Dawg" yet again ... casue me to belive otherwise. Oh and I could not pry Rocky's jaws apart ... felt like my fingers were going to be sliced off in a white hot vice ... a "Break Stick" ... would have been a nice option to have.

And if a dog charges mine ... "I" don't have time to look up "breed" characteristics?? If a dog comes at mine hard and fast ... "I will deter it" ... regardless of "breed." Just ... been there as a matter of fact ... worked out fine. :smile2:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Nothing hard about knowing breed characteristics especially when you already are a bully man. There are things that set breeds apart from others and a bully breed's hold and grip fight style is one of its trademarks distinct and different from other breeds. There is a reason that break sticks are NOT recommended for other breeds but only dog fighting breeds for which they were designed.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> It is NO fun to walk my dogs locally. It also is not safe, so I don't. I have to load them up and drive them somewhere safe. There is no fear, just practicality, experience, coupled with the view from my front porch through the years of dozens of neighborhood dogs being attacked by ill contained or leashed (either dragging their handlers or breaking loose from them) dog fighting breeds.


Well this time what can I say. Not only can I not challenge your assertion about neighborhood walks ... infact I've proven them to be true! :surprise:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Nothing hard about knowing breed characteristics especially when you already are a bully man. There are things that set breeds apart from others and a bully breed's hold and grip fight style is one of its trademarks distinct and different from other breeds.


I fully understand the argument you are making it's just kinda sorta immaterial. In the real world ..paws on the ground the only "Breed Characteristic" that matter to me in my local neighbor are a dogs "Speed and Intent??" And whatever any given dog's "Breed Characteristic" are my base assumption is "if they are coming at my dog "Hard and Fast" they intend to do harm." Been there done that seventeen times as of today and I only messed up once in the dark and even in Darkness ... I was right! Intend to harm but hey if people under attack want to whip out a cell phone and Google a charging dogs "Breed Characteristic ... please let me know how that works out for you ... cause I don't play if you "Stop" whatever dog it is first ... then whatever it happens to be doers not matter. And I advise other "neighbor dog walkers" to take the same approach. 





MineAreWorkingline said:


> There is a reason that break sticks are NOT recommended for other breeds but only dog fighting breeds for which they were designed.


Yes ... that's nice ... but in the real world ... crap happens and people make mistakes! When Rocky clamped onto the top of Gunthers head and would not let go ... I tried to choke him out and that was a fail. Marilyn grabbed a freaking frying pan and banged on Rocky head's!! That did not work and that ticked me off but I had my hands full of 116 lbs of WL GSD at the moment and then I tried the prying "Rocky's" jaws open bit ... that also was a fail! 

I'm pretty sure despite the books a "Break Stick" would have been a better option??? But hey, I suppose, I "chose" stitches and a permanently bent little finger ... as a better option???


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I fully understand the argument you are making it's just kinda sorta immaterial. In the real world ..paws on the ground the only "Breed Characteristic" that matter to me in my local neighbor are a dogs "Speed and Intent??" And whatever any given dog's "Breed Characteristic" are my base assumption is "if they are coming at my dog "Hard and Fast" they intend to do harm." Been there done that seventeen times as of today and I only messed up once in the dark and even in Darkness ... I was right! Intend to harm but hey if people under attack want to whip out a cell phone and Google a charging dogs "Breed Characteristic ... please let me know how that works out for you ... cause I don't play if you "Stop" whatever dog it is first ... then whatever it happens to be doers not matter. And I advise other "neighbor dog walkers" to take the same approach.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If somebody is under attack and wants to whip out their radar gun to determine speed, please let the rest of us know how that works out for you.

In the real world, a breed of dog that genetically latches on to another dog and does not release, speaks volumes as to intent, a key breed characteristic all responsible dog owners should know to keep their dog safe. Crap can happen but not all attacks are the same, nor do they all require an extraordinary show of force to mitigate the effects. Many just require an ignore and keep on walking strategy despite being approached with speed. Speed does not equal aggressive intent. Speed can be a harbinger of many things. Heck, I even had a kitten charge me while walking two GSDs, he followed for quite a distance, not an aggressive bone in his body, just wanted to be friends.

What matters when attacked is intent _to do harm_ and the capacity to do so, that miscalculation is what gets people and pets hurt. The breed characteristic of intent to do harm and the willingness / capacity to do so of some breeds is in the headline news multiple times on a daily basis. No need to Google what is common knowledge. It works extremely well for me. I have been able to deter numerous serious attacks _with intent_ armed with that knowledge. It enables me to fluff off a charging Maltese or Labrador knowing that the intent _to harm_ is most likely nonexistent and the capacity for serious harm or worse is negligible. 

Tell me, what did your professionally evaluated dominant, and as per you, dog aggressive, Gunther do when Rocky had him by the head? As somebody that has owned, and currently have a couple of dominant dogs, I never had one involved in a fight that just stood there and did nothing. Did Gunther have Rocky by the leg? Is that why Rocky would not release? Was Rocky actually defending himself? Surely Gunther defended himself, no? You sure have had a lot of dog fights in your home between your own dogs despite having owned very few dogs.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Starting at the beginning of this thread and reading a few replies......it seems there is a double standard with some.....it's okay for "us" to arm ourselves to the teeth ...but when some old dude with a small dog does something similar.....he's in the wrong. I'm guessing....if the old guy is posting in a small dog forum....he's saying pretty much the same as many posts in here. I'd suggest.......the old guy was just being proactive.....just as all the people in here who go out walking their dogs with all their hardware and deterrents. Just accept the fact...that your big mean killing machine GSD....is viewed as that by many. 

SuperG


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> How fun is it to walk dogs for all you guys? On which planet do you live? Is this fear real?


It's not living in constant fear, it's the fact that people have lost dogs to dog fights and stray encounters thinking it was just gonna be a regular walk and not the day they rush their dog over to the ER. People just wanna be safe in case the worst happens.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> It's not living in constant fear, it's the fact that people have lost dogs to dog fights and stray encounters thinking it was just gonna be a regular walk and not the day they rush their dog over to the ER. People just wanna be safe in case the worst happens.


So if I want to protect myself and my dog from an aggressive stray, what's the best kind of knife? Throwing or stabbing? Folding like a Swiss army knife? You said you were looking at getting a knife so I thought maybe you'd have some suggestions.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

kimbale said:


> As a girl who runs (and I think a lot of female runners can attest to this) you're put on edge sometimes. I get lots of cat calls, guys yelling at me from their cars, etc. And while guys may think that's funny, it's unnerving for a girl, and I live in upscale north DFW. Still unnerving. So I carry, especially after all the news about girls getting abducted while running. It's why I started running with my GSD in the first place.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


As a man I absolutely hate the fact that this is acceptable. I once worked with a guy who cat called and did all sorts of stupid sounds when he saw an attractive woman and I straight up felt embarrassed to be around him. It's one thing to make a comment to yourself or your buddies when you see an attractive woman, it's a completely different and stupid thing to cat call and yell at a woman.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

WateryTart said:


> So if I want to protect myself and my dog from an aggressive stray, what's the best kind of knife? Throwing or stabbing? Folding like a Swiss army knife? You said you were looking at getting a knife so I thought maybe you'd have some suggestions.


A knife to stab a dog? That's getting close. How about an impact weapon like a solid hiking stick? I once witnessed an attack on a GSD in front of my house in Tahoe by my neighbors Rott Weiller and Bull Mastiff, ran out with a metal shovel, gave them a whack each to get them off the GSD and mom and baby stroller. Incident ended. That Bull Mastiff had to put down a couple years later for mauling a girl's face.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

WateryTart said:


> So if I want to protect myself and my dog from an aggressive stray, what's the best kind of knife? Throwing or stabbing? Folding like a Swiss army knife? You said you were looking at getting a knife so I thought maybe you'd have some suggestions.


Throwing stars and a samurai sword for back up, walk your dog like a ninja. :smile2:


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

I once whacked a fixing to charge, dirt throwing bull on the head with a shovel. It was too far to make it to the fence.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

Quietly carrying something for self defense and brandishing it are two completely different things. This guy was brandishing a weapon with the intent to threaten or intimidate. It would be different if he just picked up a stick and held it in a neutral manner and kept his distance. He still could have used it to defend his dog if the puppy was aggressive but not come off as a threat to the woman and her puppy. 
A similar example would be if you were walking, saw someone with a knife clipped to a belt or pocket that walked by and kept to the other side of the path with their dog, this is not very concerning is it? Where as you walk by the same person holding a knife in their hand ready to strike and then make a comment to you about your dog being out of control, that is a threat.


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## EmilieMaria (Feb 22, 2017)

It depends where you live. Where I live you can conceal carry(with a permit) and open carry(18+). Not like you'll ever use it, but I always feel very safe like I know nothing could hurt me!!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Starting at the beginning of this thread and reading a few replies......it seems there is a double standard with some.....it's okay for "us" to arm ourselves to the teeth ...but when some old dude with a small dog does something similar.....he's in the wrong. I'm guessing....if the old guy is posting in a small dog forum....he's saying pretty much the same as many posts in here. I'd suggest.......the old guy was just being proactive.....just as all the people in here who go out walking their dogs with all their hardware and deterrents. Just accept the fact...that your big mean killing machine GSD....is viewed as that by many.
> 
> SuperG


 These are my thoughts exactly and I'm sure the 80 year old man got the idea on the chihuahua forum. He to sees himself vulnerable.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

From the original " He stopped once he saw her and was making eye contact with me as he reached down to the ground. I thought in my head for some reason that he was going to be picking up a stick because the way he was looking at Mila. When he came back up I saw that he had not just picked up a stick but lifted up a huge log about a foot around and 2 feet long!"

This was a stick, approximately three inches wide by twenty four inches long . He carried past on the trail, his chihuahua on leash and said "she will be a handful". He did not brandish the stick. This does not sound like much of a threat to me. A foot around in circumference would be about three inches in diameter. Sure it looks like a log to an over reacting scared young girl. Who has now decided to carry mace.

And from astrovan "This guy was brandishing a weapon with the intent to threaten or intimidate. It would be different if he just picked up a stick and held it in a neutral manner and kept his distance. " He did not brandish the stick, he carried it,


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah I dont see this 80 year old man as a threat in any way or his dog. Would I have been insulted probably but that is about it.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

This thread has taken on a life of its own. I don't use facebook or have any other social media sites so I did not realize this would get so much attention. I will make sure to just keep my posting simple and not start another thread like this. My apologies if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Erica0629 said:


> This thread has taken on a life of its own. I don't use facebook or have any other social media sites so I did not realize this would get so much attention. I will make sure to just keep my posting simple and not start another thread like this. My apologies if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way.


Nothing to apologize for, I thought it was a good question. If anything, the folks that took it off topic should apologize to you for derailing your thread.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Threads gets derailed all the time and when you can use something from the thread it's worth it. There are quite a few what to take on walk threads on here - they usually end up interesting.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Erica0629 said:


> This thread has taken on a life of its own. I don't use facebook or have any other social media sites so I did not realize this would get so much attention. I will make sure to just keep my posting simple and not start another thread like this. My apologies if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way.


In my opinion I think it's more fun when threads go controversial like this. Not a huge fan of when everyone's just on the same page. Back in my teens I used to troll on internet forums all the time an I've retired from that and I won't intentionally troll a forum like this one since there are people looking for serious help on here.

I usually like to post topics on here that will stirr conversation and were different agendas collide. Nothing to get too worried about in my opinion. I myself have strong opinions about stuff.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> If somebody is under attack and wants to whip out their radar gun to determine speed, please let the rest of us know how that works out for you.
> 
> In the real world, a breed of dog that genetically latches on to another dog and does not release, speaks volumes as to intent, a key breed characteristic all responsible dog owners should know to keep their dog safe. Crap can happen but not all attacks are the same, nor do they all require an extraordinary show of force to mitigate the effects. Many just require an ignore and keep on walking strategy despite being approached with speed. Speed does not equal aggressive intent. Speed can be a harbinger of many things. Heck, I even had a kitten charge me while walking two GSDs, he followed for quite a distance, not an aggressive bone in his body, just wanted to be friends.
> 
> What matters when attacked is intent _to do harm_ and the capacity to do so, that miscalculation is what gets people and pets hurt. The breed characteristic of intent to do harm and the willingness / capacity to do so of some breeds is in the headline news multiple times on a daily basis. No need to Google what is common knowledge. It works extremely well for me. I have been able to deter numerous serious attacks _with intent_ armed with that knowledge. It enables me to fluff off a charging Maltese or Labrador knowing that the intent _to harm_ is most likely nonexistent and the capacity for serious harm or worse is negligible.


Well as you stated ... you don't walk in your local neighborhood becasue it is "Unsafe" well ... I do. 

Been there done that ... yesterday as a matter of fact and I don't play! 17 times (now) and my dogs have not been harmed. With the nip in the dark being the noticed exception and even in total darkness ... I was right!

When I look for solutions ... I look for "Trainers" that have "been there done and got it done" paws on the street "solutions." And if they make sense to me ... that's what I share. 

With "paws" on the street in "JQP's" urban "Combat Zones" well it just happens that "I'm that guy!" I don't dispel wisdom from an "Ivory Tower" ... my dogs butts are on the line! And I don't play and I advise others to do the same.

Or you know ... they can try the "Walk Away" thing" ... looks good on paper??? I can say I have ... no idea how that works out?? But I can say the dogs that have came after mine in at least four of those 17 times ... it would not have worked out so well?? 

People can do what they want but me and my dogs and "especially my "Struddell" ... I don't freaking play!! "Make Better Choices Dog!" 
Is a message I send "Crystal Clear" to dogs that "Chose" to come after mine ... becasue as I am want to say.:










Other "Urban Dog Walkers" are of course ... free to do as they see fit.



MineAreWorkingline said:


> Tell me, what did your professionally evaluated dominant, and as per you, dog aggressive, Gunther do when Rocky had him by the head? As somebody that has owned, and currently have a couple of dominant dogs, I never had one involved in a fight that just stood there and did nothing. Did Gunther have Rocky by the leg? Is that why Rocky would not release? Was Rocky actually defending himself? Surely Gunther defended himself, no? You sure have had a lot of dog fights in your home between your own dogs despite having owned very few dogs.


Really ... really??? I don't know if this a legit question or a challenge??? 

Kind of a poke that Bear thing maybe??? But ... I'll pretend ... like I am an "80 year man with a "Chihuahua and a log in hand" being confronted by a GSD puppy. And even though ... I feel tense ... I shall keep a grip. 

So what did my:


MineAreWorkingline said:


> professionally evaluated dominant, and as per you, dog aggressive, Gunther do when Rocky had him by the head?


 Do ... he did exactly what I told him to do ... *"DOWN,"* which left him at a disadvantage ... everytime! Even with 116 lbs of WL GSD on his back ... "he" listened to "ME" ... "Rocky however did not! Rocky's ... take was "Hot Da***" I got him now!!

It was a problem for me because no dog attacks my own without going through me ... but what if it's your dog doing the attacking??

It was not a good situation, pretty much all the male members in our household were ... out of control! Marilyn (save for the frying pan incident) and Struddell my Boxer ... were non combatants ... all male household members are insane so you know we'll stay clear! 

Four times ... that kept happening??? And on out of control "OS WL GSD" strike number five ... I switched up! This time I took an "I dare you to try approach! As free roaming in the house Rocky "Postured with head over Gunther's shoulder???" Rocky ... took that "dare" ... I'm fast but Rocky was faster!

And that time while trying to get them apart ... I messed up and my left hand wound up in "Gunther's" jaws!! I screwed up and I knew this was gonna hurt! But ... even with 116 lbs of out of control "GSD" "On His Back!!" Gunther realized it was my hand as his jaws started to close and he let go! I then bear hugged "Rocky off him." 

I still have full use of my left hand today becasue of "Gunthers" training so I'm good. And in all five of those encounters my Bully Based, Dominante, D/A ... American BanDog ... "NEVER" instituted a single fight! It was "always" my GSD! And yes ... I accomplished that behaviour for my "BandDog" based on one evaluation by a "Pro!" "Dominant Male" dog was all I needed to know. I had no idea when "Rocky" came along ... that I had added a second one??? 

And as for "Rocky" ... I don't know ... most likely he beat the odds??? Right charter, right temperament but he has "Wobblers???" 

Most likely but for "Wobblers" I'd never have gotten him?? Save for that "issue" he'd could have a been a real "Working Dog Prospect" as in not suitable for a "Pet Home???" But "Wobblers" you know this dog "should be harmless enough so off to "rescue you go??" Just "speculation" I have no idea??? But he ... worked out fine in the long run for "me."

And you know ... sorry if I have learned so much from so few dogs ... I did not know being a quick study ... was an "issue??" So sorry it only took "me" only a few dogs to get where I am today?? I thank "Rocky" for most of that ... despite my "issues" with him. Had I just stuck with "Bullies" most likely I'd not have not gotten "Schooled" as it were. And I'd have had no "need" to go beyond what I already knew?? 

But "Rocky" ... I'm impressed enough with him ... that when I get another WL GSD ... "I'd" be thrilled to have another ... "just like him!" Better "management" would be instituted of course ... which when you know how ... is not really a big deal.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


>


That's not Homey! This is Homey!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Erica0629 said:


> This thread has taken on a life of its own. I don't use facebook or have any other social media sites so I did not realize this would get so much attention. I will make sure to just keep my posting simple and not start another thread like this. My apologies if this has rubbed anyone the wrong way.


LOL ... no "apologies needed???" We do this stuff all the time! 

It's a change from beating up on "newbies" and stuff. "Apparently" for awhile this board was "infamous" in that regard, so I feel "this" is progress??? 

You're fairly new here and most likely all the .. well just flat crazy talk about "people" wielding various instruments of death to dispatch "dogs" perceived as threats ... seems ... a bit insane???" Well you know "open forum" that's what people do. 

But read between the lines ... it's an art form, a few of us try and inject "common sense" into such discussions. 

But ... to be "Crystal" you did *"nothing wrong"  you merely relayed your observations ... "instruments of death advocates ... took it from there! And I noted the freaking "Samurai sword" advise" ... "WTH??" 

But ... unfortunately you can't just discount the on the surface "obviously stupid threats" as having no value??? You need to know the players ... and that takes time. Selzer for one is pretty consistent and she got on us ... "who do have well trained dogs that walking our dogs off leash" ... shows our inconsideration of others??? 

Well that seemed like "crap" to me ... but then on a walk in my semi urban neighborhood, I saw it??? Off leash and across the street, I saw a couple walking there "Chi." I'd already seen them so no big deal ... we crossed the street but "Rocky was off leash." No big deal ... we do it all the time. 

I knew ..."Rocky" was a non issue, but what they saw was a massive "Wolfish" looking Dog (maybe) with no leash??? They reached down and scooped up there "Chi???" 

At that point ... I felt bad ... I realised what had happened??? What they saw was a dog with no "apparent" means of control?? And there baby was "raw meat!" I had "Rocky" do a "down" and from across the street ... "I apologize for causing them concern!"  

It was a while ago and I have no idea what thread that was ... but I "remember it." So ...even in the midst of well frankly ... "stupid" suggestions ... there are "pearls of wisdom." You ... did nothing wrong ... no need to apologize. *


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> That's not Homey! This is Homey!


LOL ... save for the one night time exception ... I can't say??? 

My approach is "Non Contact" based, if I see a threat and they see me ... they don't get by!! But ... apparently ... if they can tell I can't see them??? Some/one "DDD" will take a shot??? And she ... still got the heck out of Dodge, once she felt ... I knew where she was ... so I'm good with my approach.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... save for the one night time exception ... I can't say???
> 
> My approach is "Non Contact" based, if I see a threat and they see me ... they don't get by!! But ... apparently ... if they can tell I can't see them??? Some/one "DDD" will take a shot??? And she ... still got the heck out of Dodge, once she felt ... I knew where she was ... so I'm good with my approach.


No. Lol. I was saying you are using the wrong clown for Homey.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

I'm still pretty new here and still picking up on how things go lol glad to hear that people are enjoying the debates going on. I also agree with Jenny720 I've also seen some really good advice thrown in here that I can take from this. 

People can think that I was scared for nothing and that is fine. The fact is I did not escalate things and I was not rude or disrespectful, I gave him and his dog the room to go by. If I had pepper spray I would still have acted the same however I believe that I would have not felt as vulnerable in that situation or any other knowing I have a little something to help defend myself if needed. 

My question was not is this man a threat it was simply an incident that brought up a question of what others take on walks for protection. I see no reason to go around being the one to instigate things or escalate any situation just because I would be carrying pepper spray to be clear. I absolutely prefer to be non confrontational and avoid a questionable situation whenever possible. Thats about all I have left for this lol. Carry on


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Well as you stated ... you don't walk in your local neighborhood becasue it is "Unsafe" well ... I do.
> 
> Been there done that ... yesterday as a matter of fact and I don't play! 17 times (now) and my dogs have not been harmed. With the nip in the dark being the noticed exception and even in total darkness ... I was right!
> 
> ...


Please share and document what pro ever used the speed of an approaching dog to determine whether the dog was a threat. I am here to learn about dogs and that is a new one to me.

When you neglect breed characteristics, you are playing and you are advising others to do the same. That is reckless and dangerous advice. Expect for others to speak out. One person's life experiences are not indicative of what other people can expect.

Of course you can choose not to walk away from an approaching Maltese, but to walk away and ignore is good advice. There is no reason to turn into Gandalf over a ten pound dog. The threat is not imminent or real. Self control could be a better option.

You have related the story over and over about young, early neuter Rocky attacking an adult, dominant, dog aggressive bandog and you getting bit, but you always leave out one critical piece of information, just what was your bandog doing that caused Rocky to grip his head and not release? If you are going to publicly speak about all of your escapades, it is only fair that others be able to question you about the missing pieces without you becoming defensive or offensive. If you don't want to supply the details or field questions regarding the incident, maybe then the story shouldn't be on a public forum.

You certainly have had more than your fair share of dog fights in your own home despite having had only three long term dogs in your adult lifetime with one of them being a female that was never involved. That is not exactly what one would consider a stellar track record or a quick study.

But enough about you, let's get back on topic.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Well as you stated ... you don't walk in your local neighborhood becasue it is "Unsafe" well ... I do.
> 
> Been there done that ... yesterday as a matter of fact and I don't play! 17 times (now) and my dogs have not been harmed. With the nip in the dark being the noticed exception and even in total darkness ... I was right!
> 
> ...


Chip,

Not sure if your Bear and Urban comments referenced my post and probably should just let it go, BUT I hike in the Sierras where bears live and train in urban environments at times where junk yard dogs live. My pup is not tough, I protect her.
My bad for responding to a thread like this, they tend to get out of hand.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> In my opinion I think it's more fun when threads go controversial like this. Not a huge fan of when everyone's just on the same page. Back in my teens I used to troll on internet forums all the time an I've retired from that and I won't intentionally troll a forum like this one since there are people looking for serious help on here.
> 
> I usually like to post topics on here that will stirr conversation and were different agendas collide. Nothing to get too worried about in my opinion. I myself have strong opinions about stuff.


Most likely "controversial" is subject to "interpretation" fortunately for my neighbors, my first resort ... is not the use of lethal force to deal with loose dogs??? There would be a long trail of deceased dogs in "Rocky's" wake if that was the case. :surprise:

Most of them, if clueless owner is present and I have to deal with there dog ... get by with a rather crut ... "Train your freaking dog" and off we go. But they won't need a shovel to bury there dog. That works for me.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

ausdland said:


> Chip,
> 
> Not sure if your Bear and Urban comments referenced my post and probably should just let it go, BUT I hike in the Sierras where bears live and train in urban environments at times where junk yard dogs live. My pup is not tough, I protect her.
> My bad for responding to a thread like this, they tend to get out of hand.


Bear's and the "Sierras??" No not at all .... my comment was directed to my "perceived" challenge, by MAWL, hence "Poke the Bear." Only that ... nothing more. Sorry if I unintentionally offended you ... that was not my intent.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Please share and document what pro ever used the speed of an approaching dog to determine whether the dog was a threat. I am here to learn about dogs and that is a new one to me.


That and thank you for that ... would be "ME." My second puppy my first walk ... 16 years ago and to quote me.:

*" a door bolting 90 lb (Breed that shall not be mentioned) came charging from out of his home and he was aiming for my puppy with intend to do harm!! I spun "Stewie" behind me and then all the dog saw was me! And he stopped, long enough for his owner to grab him and him throw back in the house." * That first encounter is the how and why of what I do on "urban walks." You don't walk your fogs in your neighborhood but many of us do. And me and my assorted "Bullies" lived in San Jose and where I was it was "Bandog country." Pretty sure there were thousands of other breeds out there and if any of them came at me ... they'd get the exact same response. 

Been doing it for 17 years and my dogs (with the in the dark exception) have "Never Been" attacked! If a dog comes at mine "Hard and Fast" he will be countered ... period, end of story! I don't give a crap what it is or what it's "Breed Characteristics are!" * "I don't care." * I'm not out there to win hearts and minds ??" My job is to *protect my dogs and I am good at my job.* Others are of course ... "Free to do as they see fit!"

I have "Zero" interest in coming back from a walk without one of my dogs becasue "I guessed wrong??" Or visiting the "vet" because some piece of crap little aggressive dog did take a shot! As I said ... * "I don't care." * I am my own "Expert" as regards my *"ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY"* to charging dogs policy. If that is too much for some owners ... then don't do it! 

No matter how many times you ask this ... my answer will "always" be the same but ... I will admit ... the where did it come from is a new spin. 



MineAreWorkingline said:


> Of course you can choose not to walk away from an approaching Maltese, but to walk away and ignore is good advice. There is no reason to turn into Gandalf over a ten pound dog. The threat is not imminent or real. Self control could be a better option.


Yes ... the calmly approaching 
"Maltese ie small dog??" I've seen that happen ... "never" but whatever.




MineAreWorkingline said:


> You have related the story over and over about young, early neuter Rocky


 Yes ... indeed he was and so much for that being a solution ... just saying.



MineAreWorkingline said:


> Rocky attacking an adult, dominant, dog aggressive bandog and you getting bit, but you always leave out one critical piece of information, just what was your bandog doing that caused Rocky to grip his head and not release? If you are going to publicly speak about all of your escapades, it is only fair that others be able to question you about the missing pieces without you becoming defensive or offensive. If you don't want to supply the details or field questions regarding the incident, maybe then the story shouldn't be on a public forum.


 What was Gunther doing!!?? What was he doing!!! How about ... *"FREAKING NOTHING!!!"* He was "here" that was his crime! And the stitches thing exactly ... Gunther when to get a get drink of water and freaking "Free Roaming Rocky" figured ... this looks like a good opportunity to take this guy down! 




MineAreWorkingline said:


> You certainly have had more than your fair share of dog fights in your own home despite having had only three long term dogs in your adult lifetime with one of them being a female that was never involved. That is not exactly what one would consider a stellar track record or a quick study.


Yes ... it was a hard and difficult road with a "Breed" I did not understand and "Gunther" paid a price for my lack of understanding. Gunther bore the brunt of my lack of understanding ... and Dominant Male Bandog that he was ... he "NEVER" attacked "Rocky" first! Gunther ... "RIP" was a good dog and "I" trained him on my own! So in my head ... an OS WL GSD with Wobblers ... should not be a big deal??? Most likely that is what whoever had him first ... "thought" also and "Rocky" was not "culled." So "someone" else ... "underestimated" him first ... in a "Pet Home" he should be fine??? Apparently ... "If" that is what happened ... they were wrong! 

But you know ... he was clever ... "SEVEN MONTHS" of no issues whatsoever (that I saw??) He "appeared" to fit in fine. All the usual Sit/Stay Thresholds, blab, blab no issues and then ...it was "Game On!" 

So everybody else that has seen that "happen??" Stand up and be counted and those that have seen it happen and still have your dog ... "I Salute You!"  

So yes ... I screwed up! I badly underestimated what I had??? And most likely I "expected" him to be like my other dogs??? But through "Rocky" I learned to "Work with the dog in front of you!" Most likely ...not understanding the basis of that ... was at the heart of my ... issues???" But ... bottomline and "Expert Free." "I got it done" and I still have my first "OS WL GSD" and he has been impressive, despite my issues with him and his handicap ... even though he is not a Boxer. 

Nuff said ... thanks for asking.


----------



## Mountain Mom (Mar 15, 2017)

Erica0629 said:


> He stopped once he saw her and was making eye contact with me as he reached down to the ground. I thought in my head for some reason that he was going to be picking up a stick because the way he was looking at Mila. When he came back up I saw that he had not just picked up a stick but lifted up a huge log about a foot around and 2 feet long!


If this 80+ year old man was able to bend down and pick up a log, then surely he could have just picked up his Chihuahua. Problem solved!

My daughter has a Pomeranian (which isn't much bigger than a Chihuahua), and whenever we take her for a walk we pick her up if we see another dog approaching. Actually, the Pomeranian usually senses the other dog long before we do and asks to be picked up LOL. 

The point is, I don't believe it is another dog owner's responsibility to protect my dog from someone else's dog's potential prey-drive/dog aggression. It is MY responsibility to protect my own dog – and not with a threatening log, but with common sense. 

I think you handled it well. Staying calm and silent is often the best approach to defusing a tense situation.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> That and thank you for that ... would be "ME." My second puppy my first walk ... 16 years ago and to quote me.:
> 
> *" a door bolting 90 lb (Breed that shall not be mentioned) came charging from out of his home and he was aiming for my puppy with intend to do harm!! I spun "Stewie" behind me and then all the dog saw was me! And he stopped, long enough for his owner to grab him and him throw back in the house." * That first encounter is the how and why of what I do on "urban walks." You don't walk your fogs in your neighborhood but many of us do. And me and my assorted "Bullies" lived in San Jose and where I was it was "Bandog country." Pretty sure there were thousands of other breeds out there and if any of them came at me ... they'd get the exact same response.
> 
> ...


You are a pro? May I ask what are your qualifications? 

Don't you think the dangers of a dog fighting breed with intent charging you falls under breed characteristics and not speed?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL ... for someone that "appears" to have such a disdain for "Bully Breeds" ... you sure show a lot of "Dogged Determination???" But as I learned in the "school of hard knocks" you don't get anywhere by fighting with a dog. So ... "despite" my ... "annoyance??" I'll go back to "Boxer" mode ie ...butt loads of "patience" and try again.  




MineAreWorkingline said:


> You are a pro? May I ask what are your qualifications?


You "implied" by asking ... :

*Please share and document what pro ever used the speed of an approaching dog to determine whether the dog was a threat. I am here to learn about dogs and that is a new one to me. * That I was?? That ... was a new one on me??? But sure a fair and reasonable question. 

If one "assumes" intent based on a "loose dogs speed and intent to do harm" ... then by default ... the only one that does that ... would be "ME." So by implication in the "narrow zone" of dog walking in urban environments, and in consideration of my personal track record with my dogs and clients and rescues dogs, I might add. Every dog under my care gets the same level of protection from me. 

By that narrow definition ... I am "Pro." You asked for sources on how and why, I do what I do for "dog walking in local neighbors and stray dog encounters." Based on "Speed and Intent" well .... your talking to him. You just don't like my answer??? 

But for people that do walk in there local neighborhoods ... "I'm" pretty sure ... I make a lot of sense??? So based "solely" on the urban dog walking loose encounters and the need for "someone" else to have a "proven track record of success???" I took the compliment ... otherwise ... I'll default to "I am not a Pro" and how many times have I said that ... "Google is your friend.  :

https://www.google.com/search?q=I+a...SAhXJXrwKHeS2D8IQrQIIKigEMAA&biw=1280&bih=646

It gets old after awhile.




MineAreWorkingline said:


> Don't you think the dangers of a dog fighting breed with intent charging you falls under breed characteristics and not speed?


I did not say it didn't??? But for me ... "Speed of approach" dictates my response. If a dog comes at mine ... hard and fast ... they will meet "Swift and determined resistance!" If they don't ... they get a softer response. Gunther and Struddell ...did get to meet a clueless owners undisciplined "Bulldog and Boxer" on one occasion. On our front yard! The guy had them off leash and "Zero Control" and they saw my guys and came our way, but they were friendly and approached fast but not a "charge." Not a problem ... they were cool dogs. But I do hope the guy got better at training for those dogs sake???


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... for someone that "appears" to have such a disdain for "Bully Breeds" ... you sure show a lot of "Dogged Determination???" But as I learned in the "school of hard knocks" you don't get anywhere by fighting with a dog. So ... "despite" my ... "annoyance??" I'll go back to "Boxer" mode ie ...butt loads of "patience" and try again.
> 
> 
> You "implied" by asking ... :
> ...


I never asked you for your sources on how not to walk a dog. I asked you who were the pros that you stated used speed as a determinant as to a dog's intent. You responded with that you were the pro. 

My question was then what are your qualifications? How long have you been training dogs? Where did you receive your training? Do you have experience with GSDs? How about working line GSDs? *Have you worked with dogs that have the issues you are giving out advice about?* Do you have client references?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I never asked you for your sources on how not to walk a dog. I asked you who were the pros that you stated used speed as a determinant as to a dog's intent. You responded with that you were the pro.


Near as I can tell ... I've already explained the ..."Who, How and Why" of "my" "Speed and Intent" response??? Those that have seen ... what I describe ... understand what I mean "they" are the only ones I care about. You can't browbeat someone into accepting an answer ... that would just be silly. 



MineAreWorkingline said:


> My question was then what are your qualifications?


 I'm good at what I do. 
In "Pro" talk ... "apparently" "I take nothing away (correct a behaviour directly) through aversions if a dog's life or home is not at stake, save for one exception ... then I had no choice but to "Keep It Real. And I add nothing (treats/distractions/toys.) Do Nothing dog is what I do! Even I don't fully understand ... how... exactly I do that??? So I'm trying to figure it out??? Only newly discovered to me "Larry Krhon" is better at that than me??? So I'm busy studying him! As he shows his work and that ... is all "I need!" What I figure out ... I share with others ... I serve as a "Crap" filter for those that know me! 

And I do hear from them ... lots of folks ... don't like to get wrapped up in "crap like this!" Pros don't and that is why very few "pro's" ... do open forums. So even with not being a "Pro" myself ... I get "flack" that they chose not to deal with??? 




MineAreWorkingline said:


> How long have you been training dogs? Where did you receive your training?


 With my dog(s) since I mostly coast ... I'm gonna go with ten years??? I got bored with my dogs so off to rescue work I went! Fearful of people, pulling Boxer ... got adopted after I worked with him. And I'll add SLL is the only tool rescues will let you use ... that works out just fine for me. 



MineAreWorkingline said:


> Do you have experience with GSDs? How about working line GSDs?


Well I think it's fairly obvious that with my first and only WL GSD ... "clearly" I did not! Ten years of experiance with assorted ... assorted BanDogs, Boxer/(Breed that shall not be mentioned)mixes and Boxers ie Bully Breeds and had I stuck with them ... I'd not be here. Big furry dog with a pointy face (Rocky) did not work out so well for awhile.

My a "dog is a dog" thing and "Breed does not matter" tude ... kinda got me into trouble so yeah ... But "now" ... I'll still go back to that, with my newly found knowledge ... that "proper management" is key. The School of Hard Knocks ... works well for some. But ... not recommended ... the ability to learn from others "mistakes" ... does not require stitches.  

But ... to answer your question "directly" nope not a "Pro" just "JQP" from Virginia ... I just happen to be pretty good at what I do. And I'll add ... that if every "Bully" owners was as good as I am ... you'd not have so much material at your disposal. 

Just saying. :grin2:




MineAreWorkingline said:


> *Have you worked with dogs that have the issues you are giving out advice about?* Do you have client references?


Fear of people and H/A aggression ... and with both ... I did the same old things ... I walked them, I trained "Place" I did "Sit on the Dog." Worked out fine, sorry if "I" learned so much from so few dogs ... I did not realize ... that was a crime??? 

Nope no client references as I am not a "Pro" ... but "how to protect your dogs from stray dog encounters" ... does sound like a "Business Opportunity???" But I'm kinda lazy.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Please share and document what pro ever used the speed of an approaching dog to determine whether the dog was a threat.





Chip18 said:


> That and thank you for that ... would be "ME."





Chip18 said:


> So even with not being a "Pro" myself ... I get "flack" that they chose not to deal with???


You stated you were a pro.

Now you say you are not a pro?

:thinking:


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## oldskoolsmg (Sep 14, 2016)

I have a thick chain in my pocket with a handle attached. Its called the dogs lead.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You stated you were a pro.
> 
> Now you say you are not a pro?
> 
> :thinking:


LOL ... apparently ... this works??? :









Not really I merely accepted the compliment. You asked.:

Please share and document what pro ever used the speed of an approaching dog to determine whether the dog was a threat. I am here to learn about dogs and that is a new one to me. And I said (poorly phrased I see) but.:

*that ... would be "ME." My second puppy my first walk ... 16 years ago and to quote me.: ....
*

If a source for doing something that has been proven to work successfully time and time again, is what defines a "Pro??" Then by that narrow definition ... "for urban dog walking owners" ... yeah I suppose "I'm" a "Pro." My unharmed dogs over many years and many encounters ... are my "Proof of Concept." I suppose you can say I used my "pack" and assorted other dogs to prove my concept ... works out fine.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... apparently ... this works??? :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So your only assertion to being a pro is self proclaimed? So then any member on this forum can be a pro simply by presenting themselves as such?

There was no compliment, I don't know what you are talking about.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

:surprise: I grew up in South Africa - plenty of crime... never carried a weapon around with me.


I now live in Australia... no one walks around carrying weapons of any kind. We don't have any stray dog packs roaming the streets looking for a fight. And so far my only issue has been that all the dogs are too friendly and none of them will tell Kaiser off for his bad manners and jumping on them.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Yeah, like the old saying goes.... I'm to young to die and to old to take a butt whoopin', thats why I carry.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Shooter said:


> Yeah, like the old saying goes.... I'm to young to die and to old to take a butt whoopin', thats why I carry.


But aren't you born carrying down in Alabama?


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Looking at the Chip18 and MineAreWorkingLine argument.

Hahaha


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Looking at the Chip18 and MineAreWorkingLine argument.
> 
> Hahaha


That's not an argument. Its a simple question.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Looking at the Chip18 and MineAreWorkingLine argument.
> 
> Hahaha


I am not arguing, I just don't understand what he is saying and am looking for clarification.

One minute he is a trainer, next minute he is not, then he is a trainer because he said so...... :crazy:


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am not arguing, I just don't understand what he is saying and am looking for clarification.
> 
> One minute he is a trainer, next minute he is not, then he is a trainer because he said so...... :crazy:


Oooooooohhhhhhh

I'm just skimming through posts. It just looked like y'all were arguing.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> But aren't you born carrying down in Alabama?


Yeah, I was taught young and I taught mine young. It's better than it was down here years ago. Used to we had pretty strict carry laws the Sheriff could deny you a permit because he didn't want you to have one now he must issue if you pass a background check and we are now open carry, you can have one in your car at work (without a permit) and weeks away from constitutional carry (No permit required).


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Shouldn't there be a link to a test to determine that?


Naaah it was just an unofficial declaration but I changed it for reasons being lol. lol


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Shooter said:


> Yeah, I was taught young and I taught mine young. It's better than it was down here years ago. Used to we had pretty strict carry laws the Sheriff could deny you a permit because he didn't want you to have one now he must issue if you pass a background check and we are now open carry, you can have one in your car at work (without a permit) and weeks away from constitutional carry (No permit required).


On the topic of guns and memes


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Shooter said:


> Yeah, I was taught young and I taught mine young. It's better than it was down here years ago. Used to we had pretty strict carry laws the Sheriff could deny you a permit because he didn't want you to have one now he must issue if you pass a background check and we are now open carry, you can have one in your car at work (without a permit) and weeks away from constitutional carry (No permit required).


I just read that in a southern accent. Its like Louisiana people. I'd need subtitles to understand. Lol. Up in NY, I have to have a reason to conceal carry. I want to apply due to the threat of bears. The current judge will not allow you to carry if you claim it's for self defense of humans.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> I just read that in a southern accent.


Speaking off...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am not arguing, I just don't understand what he is saying and am looking for clarification.
> 
> One minute he is a trainer, next minute he is not, then he is a trainer because he said so...... :crazy:


Well to be clear ... you asked the who, where and why of my "Speed and Intent" response. I explained ... you did not like my answer and then proceeded to expand your scope of questions. 

I figured ... one of us had to stop so I did ... before the *"Bickering Clause"* gets invoked ... things I've learned from dog training ... make good choices.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> I just read that in a southern accent. Its like Louisiana people. I'd need subtitles to understand. Lol. Up in NY, I have to have a reason to conceal carry. I want to apply due to the threat of bears. The current judge will not allow you to carry if you claim it's for self defense of humans.


Bears scare the crap out of me! We haven't had any for >100 years but there are videos of them in these parts again. I don't know if they are being relocated or migrating. 

About the accent thing. Yeah, I am one of the only people in Alabama that gets ragged about his southern accent. What a riot, huh?


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Shooter said:


> Bears scare the crap out of me! We haven't had any for >100 years but there are videos of them in these parts again. I don't know if they are being relocated or migrating.
> 
> About the accent thing. Yeah, I am one of the only people in Alabama that gets ragged about his southern accent. What a riot, huh?


Bears terrify me! My parents used to own a fly-in fishing lodge in Canada and every so often we would get a black bear that would come walking through camp. We'd have to shoot them because if we didn't they'd keep coming back to try and raid food. They were mean, too, and since we were in a remote area they had no fear of humans.

When I lived in Minnesota I would carry on hikes specifically because of bears and cougars. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Bears terrify me which is why I'm not a big camper especially after seeing the movies Backcountry and Remenant. I wonder what kind of impact a gun has on a extra large pissed off mamma bear. Sharks are just as dangerous but my love of the ocean hugely overrides any fear. I wonder what kind of weapon that would be safe enough to swim with but would help give you a few seconds to get away if a shark attack. Alligators also not that I live near alligators any but the story of the boy who was dragged away by the alligator in Disney world and the parents were unable to safe him was horrifically sad. I heard poking the eyes and punching nose but what would be safe weapons in a situation in water.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

kimbale said:


> Bears terrify me! My parents used to own a fly-in fishing lodge in Canada and every so often we would get a black bear that would come walking through camp. We'd have to shoot them because if we didn't they'd keep coming back to try and raid food. They were mean, too, and since we were in a remote area they had no fear of humans.
> 
> When I lived in Minnesota I would carry on hikes specifically because of bears and cougars.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I understand! My youngest son and I were on the Appalachian trail and had crossed paths with a momma black bear and her cub. We were ~75 yards away but way to close for me. We shut down our hike till they were gone. We walked all day to make it to the next camp area. As the sun was going down we reached the camping area. There was a large sign posted that read "Due to recent bear activity it is advised to not camp here". I looked at him and said "Dang boy that sucks." Worst night of sleep I ever had.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Jenny720 said:


> Bears terrify me which is why I'm not a big camper especially after seeing the movies Backcountry and Remenant. I wonder what kind of impact a gun has on a extra large pissed off mamma bear. Sharks are just as dangerous but my love of the ocean hugely overrides any fear. I wonder what kind of weapon that would be safe enough to swim with but would help give you a few seconds to get away if a shark attack. Alligators also not that I live near alligators any but the story of the boy who was dragged away by the alligator in Disney world and the parents were unable to safe him was horrifically sad. I heard poking the eyes and punching nose but what would be safe weapons in a situation in water.


When I hike I carry a 45 Auto because I want stopping power and multiple shots. No guarantee that it's stopping anything, but if you can get clear aim at a cougar that will stop it. Bears are another story, with black bears if you make enough noise they'll usually wonder off and bear mace is a must. Rifles are your best weapons against bears, but carrying a rifle on a hike isn't feasible. 

The biggest issue with animals is actually getting a clear shot, which is a feat in and of itself.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> Bears terrify me which is why I'm not a big camper especially after seeing the movies Backcountry and Remenant. I wonder what kind of impact a gun has on a extra large pissed off mamma bear. Sharks are just as dangerous but my love of the ocean hugely overrides any fear. I wonder what kind of weapon that would be safe enough to swim with but would help give you a few seconds to get away if a shark attack. Alligators also not that I live near alligators any but the story of the boy who was dragged away by the alligator in Disney world and the parents were unable to safe him was horrifically sad. I heard poking the eyes and punching nose but what would be safe weapons in a situation in water.


.45 would be a very minimum caliber for a pissed momma bear. The best may be a .500 Smith Wesson. I know a guy who would go fishing in Alaska and he would take the .500 for bear.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yeah people really need to know what to bring on those hiking trips with bears or Cougars for safety.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> Yeah people really need to know what to bring on those hiking trips with bears or Cougars for safety.


I don't know why but I have been pretty close to a cougar before in the woods ~40-50 yards and I didn't freak out nearly as bad as I did with the bear.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Shooter said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah people really need to know what to bring on those hiking trips with bears or Cougars for safety.
> ...



Yeah I have seen way to many bear movies to want to attempt to share the woods if they are in it. We saw a black bear once on a trip in Florida looked like maybe a baby or young one run across the parking lot at a closed gas station late at night when we were looking to gas up. It was in very busy area late at night. Last thing I thought I would see would be bear. He saw our car and took off.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Perhaps I should take bears a little more seriously but I've just never had any problems with them. We frequently have them around the property and not all that long ago a momma bear brought her 2 cubs up on the deck. It was early in the morning and I slept right through it but we saw them the next day on our security system. In every case (so far anyway) the bear is anxious to get away from us and they high-tail it across the woods. 

My bigger concern are the wild pigs. We have them more than I like and they can be quite dangerous. The dogs and I were hiking on the property a couple of years ago and I found myself face-to-face with a nasty looking boar. Funny thing was neither of the dogs saw him and he was only 30' away. They sure smelled him though and had their noses to the ground. I gathered up my dogs and quickly walked the opposite direction. The boar did the same thing in another direction. It cold ave gone badly if the dogs had seen him. I have large GSD's but no way are they a match for a wild boar.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

There's an awful lot of fear in this thread.... if large wildlife truly frightens you, perhaps it's best to select other trails.

I mean that sincerely. Camping should be enjoyable. If you aren't enjoying yourself, choose a different trip that will minimize your interaction with wildlife.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

WIBackpacker said:


> There's an awful lot of fear in this thread.... if large wildlife truly frightens you, perhaps it's best to select other trails.
> 
> I mean that sincerely. Camping should be enjoyable. If you aren't enjoying yourself, choose a different trip that will minimize your interaction with wildlife.


It's not fear so much as being realistic. Going into the woods without any thought for safety is just stupid. I've crossed paths with bears, and knowing how to react and being educated on what to do in those situations saves lives.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

When you're in bear/mountain lion country nothing short of a 10mm or .41 mag will do... My preference is a Glock 29 although a S&W model 57 is nice too... A 45 cal just really doesn't have the penetration you need to reach into the vitals of a large bear. Alaska is a completely different story (IMHO). Although a 10mm, .41 mg or .44 mag may stop a Griz or Polar it's not a sure thing and I would say that its a "jump ball" in that situation. Of course, there are other handguns that would probably do the job like a .500 S&W but if you need to engage a bear a 7mm mag is probably a good choice.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Kimbale-Exactly everyone does or loves something that there is a danger that over rides ones concerns and fears can melt away concerns are not overrated and there still a danger-you need to be safe. We have a love of horses i had told my daughter all the gruesome dangers that go along with that love and she knows to be safe and even then there are we know for a fact there are no guarantees it is important to be considerate of this be as safe as one can. Yeah I stick to hiking trails without large wild animals we have many so works for me.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

kimbale said:


> It's not fear so much as being realistic. Going into the woods without any thought for safety is just stupid. I've crossed paths with bears, and knowing how to react and being educated on what to do in those situations saves lives.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


- shrug - 

I'm not advocating for stupidity, I'm advocating for being calm and prepared. Not fearful.

I've hiked the IAT, the AT, the NCT, wilderness areas in Canada, and internationally. I've come across a number of bears, and I expect to encounter more of them unless I drop dead in the near future. I went up and over Blood Mountain when there was a well-known resident bear pretty firmly entrenched.

There is a difference between respecting and understanding wildlife and _fearing_ it. 

Few things are more annoying than hiking through bear country amidst other hikers who are frightened and making poor choices, acting like obnoxious cowboys. Loudly showing off their gun around the campfire, discussing how to get a clear shot, telling others "not to worry, I've got this covered", utterly ruining the evening for those who want to hang their food and get a good night's quiet sleep. Every time a twig snaps and something goes bump in the night, up pop the fearful bear-fighting-cowboys. 

I stick to what I said.... someone who is uncomfortable in the presence of large wildlife should select other locations for outdoor recreation.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

WIBackpacker said:


> - shrug -
> 
> I'm not advocating for stupidity, I'm advocating for being calm and prepared. Not fearful.
> 
> ...


And what about this discussion makes you believe anyone here is fearful? Discussing how to be properly prepared doesn't equate to fear. It equates to being educated. 

I grew up hiking, hunting, camping and fishing. I've spent weeks canoeing in remote Canada and northern Minnesota, thru-hiked large parts of the AT, bowhunted elk and done quite enough to make me a level headed outdoor enthusiast. I don't go waving around guns, but I do carry in the off chance that I'll need it. Never had to use it yet, but the smartest way to travel in the wild is to be prepared.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

kimbale said:


> *And what about this discussion makes you believe anyone here is fearful?* Discussing how to be properly prepared doesn't equate to fear. It equates to being educated.
> 
> I grew up hiking, hunting, camping and fishing. I've spent weeks canoeing in remote Canada and northern Minnesota, thru-hiked large parts of the AT, bowhunted elk and done quite enough to make me a level headed outdoor enthusiast. I don't go waving around guns, but I do carry in the off chance that I'll need it. Never had to use it yet, but the smartest way to travel in the wild is to be prepared.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Kimbale, my first post on this thread was not directed specifically at you or any individual person.

To answer your question, above: the previous page of this thread is full of comments from people about being frightened, unable to sleep, and so on. You yourself stated "Bears terrify me!", others expressed the same sentiment.

Hence, my comment.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Right, because one comment obviously indicates that a person is unfit for serious outdoor activity. 

Lighten up and try to not take things so incredibly litterally. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Shooter said:


> Love the picture!! I went to an IRS office 2-3 years ago with a 6 inch knife in my pocket and the security guard had a melt down. Told me I could get 5 years in prison for taking a knife in a federal building. I told him "Dang, glad I left my gun in the truck!" Just 2 weeks ago my wife got caught with a combo brass knuckle/lock blade knife going into the courthouse. She just said " Those arent brass knuckles thats just a knife handle" The deputy just rolled her eyes and told her she could have them back on the way out.


I had to leave my whole purse in the car when I went to get another SS card


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Well to be clear ... you asked the who, where and why of my "Speed and Intent" response. I explained ... you did not like my answer and then proceeded to expand your scope of questions.
> 
> I figured ... one of us had to stop so I did ... before the *"Bickering Clause"* gets invoked ... things I've learned from dog training ... make good choices.


*Don't put words in my mouth.* I simply asked *ONE* question, who was the pro that you were speaking about. There was no pro, 'nuff said. 

If you have to bait somebody with accusatory falsehoods to get a response, that just might be bickering. So if there is nothing* factual *left to discuss, maybe this should end here as I will NOT further defend what I did NOT say.

So let's get the topic off of you and back on track.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

kimbale said:


> Right, because one comment obviously indicates that a person is unfit for serious outdoor activity.
> 
> Lighten up and try to not take things so incredibly litterally.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I also grew up in northern Minnesota - not so much an outdoors enthusiast, but I know bear, moose, cougars, and other wild predators are a part of life in remote areas of the wilderness.

I don't think it's so much about one comment, but a lot can get lost in translation on a forum, and taking something literally is not always a sign that someone needs to "lighten up." You said bears terrified you.


kimbale said:


> Bears terrify me!


That's a direct quote. I don't know whether that's true or not, because I don't know you, but you typed it and posted it, so I could see being inclined to take you at your word.

I don't think fear is a safe or even respectful approach to wildlife. Fear can lead to a lot of stupidity. A well informed understanding of wildlife would be a much safer way to go.

Also, maybe consider not getting so riled about something that wasn't even directed at you personally before taking shots at someone for taking one comment and drawing a (reasonable) conclusion.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

WateryTart said:


> I also grew up in northern Minnesota - not so much an outdoors enthusiast, but I know bear, moose, cougars, and other wild predators are a part of life in remote areas of the wilderness.
> 
> I don't think it's so much about one comment, but a lot can get lost in translation on a forum, and taking something literally is not always a sign that someone needs to "lighten up." You said bears terrified you. That's a direct quote. I don't know whether that's true or not, because I don't know you, but you typed it and posted it, so I could see being inclined to take you at your word.
> 
> ...


The original post clearly indicated that it was directed to those in the thread and it came off (to me) as rather condescending.

I will conceded that much gets lost in translation on forums and don't want to turn this into a back and forth argument.

Thus, I will apologize for my misinterpretation of the comment. I likely heard a tone in my head that was not intended.

That being said, I would hope those reading my three word comment about being terrified would have the same mindset that, as you stated, much gets lost in translation on forums and perhaps wasn't meant to be taken in quite such a litteral tense.

Anyway, I enjoy conversation on this forum and don't want to draw out an argument that simply isn't worth it. Particularly when I'm sure @WIBackpacker and I probably have a lot in common when it comes to appreciation of the outdoors.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Has this really become a competition to the point where people are making fun of others for being 'afraid'? Smh


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> Has this really become a competition to the point where people are making fun of others for being 'afraid'? Smh


I'm confident that reasonable people who read the posts will see that there's no mocking. It's a serious call for people to be levelheaded, respectful, and educated in their approaches.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

A person who is panicked and mindlessly shooting bears which I can happen and is more dangerous then the bear itself a good point to raise. Anyone panicked person with a weapon is a terrifying thought I said it on here often. 
I will say though I'm afraid of bears and proud of it and happily own it. I like bears and admire all living animals wild and domesticated -I respect their space I have no desire to hike in their woods. I enjoyed when the movie wolverine went after the man who shot the bear with a arrow and let it suffer. For some reason I'm bringing movies up a lot-well anyway - I have enjoy plenty of hiking done on the island which i grew up on and away from large wild animals which I am satisfied with. The question I had was I wanted to know what kind of gun avid campers bring to protect themselves if need be. I don't exactly know the statistics of bear attacks but they happen. Did get some good answers.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

this thread


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

RZZNSTR said:


> When you're in bear/mountain lion country nothing short of a 10mm or .41 mag will do... My preference is a Glock 29 although a S&W model 57 is nice too... A 45 cal just really doesn't have the penetration you need to reach into the vitals of a large bear. Alaska is a completely different story (IMHO). Although a 10mm, .41 mg or .44 mag may stop a Griz or Polar it's not a sure thing and I would say that its a "jump ball" in that situation. Of course, there are other handguns that would probably do the job like a .500 S&W but if you need to engage a bear a 7mm mag is probably a good choice.


Thanks, yup my little episode into bear country all I had on me was a 9mm. I had heard stories about bears being tough so I figured the 9 was really only good for people.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Dracovich said:


> Has this really become a competition to the point where people are making fun of others for being 'afraid'? Smh


Yeah, I was going to point and laugh at everybody else then I noticed I had 3 fingers pointed back at me!! :surprise:


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

shooter said:


> yeah, i was going to point and laugh at everybody else then i noticed i had 3 fingers pointed back at me!! :surprise:


you're just scared, better not carry a stick.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My point is you can not be that afraid if you are willing to hike in the woods knowing bears are there. I am I will not hike in the woods with bears.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> My point is you can not be that afraid if you are willing to hike in the woods knowing bears are there. I am I will not hike in the woods with bears.


Jenny, I have had some serious blows to the head. I do stupid stuff even when I'm sober sometimes.:frown2:


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

People swim in the ocean all the time, and the ocean is a thousand times scarier and more dangerous than the forest, IMO  Where I used to live bears used to get into the garbage, cougars would get our chickens, and so on. Sometimes you have to take risks!


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Dracovich said:


> Sometimes you have to take risks!


Yep, you just have to grin and _bear _it...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Dracovich said:


> People swim in the ocean all the time, and the ocean is a thousand times scarier and more dangerous than the forest,


Could be but sometimes the shark go away. Sometimes he wouldn’t go away. Sometimes that shark, he looks right into ya, right into your eyes. Y’know, the thing about a shark, he’s got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a _doll’s_ eyes. When he comes after ya, he doesn’t seem to be livin’ until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white, and then – aww,

SuperQuint


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

squerly said:


> Yep, you just have to grin and _bear _it...


That is good.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Ocean is more dangerous? it can be as dangerous. There is a risk and responsibility when dealing the powerful beauties of nature and must be done as safe as possible. Sometimes safe is not safe enough on any given day -there is always a risk. The deal is people grin and bear what they choose to grin and bear lol! Nothing will keep me out of the ocean. The risks just vary as simple as that. Everyone has something to grin and bear I assure you that even though it may be different.

Super g loves the movie jaws-lol!!!

We have foxes who are constantly eating feral cats. Hawks to. We have a little chihuahua - we take no risks in having anything happen to to our little guy and will always be watchful everytime he is outside.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

After spending a considerable amount of my career in Monterey I'll say this. When you enter the water in the Monterey area you are entering the food chain and you are not at the top of the list!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

RZZNSTR said:


> After spending a considerable amount of my career in Monterey I'll say this. When you enter the water in the Monterey area you are entering the food chain and you are not at the top of the list!


Yes I heard there were a cluster of sharks last year there. Something I would stay away from.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

There are always sharks in the Monterey Bay area.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes I can imagine. Always good idea to know what may be in your waters before think about going in for a swim. Florida's beautiful waters have many sharks. They don't only like warm water they like cold as well. Last summer I heard Long Island waters are where many great white shark are having their babies.


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## Glaicer (Aug 6, 2016)

A cane with a taser at the end of it, and a can of pepper spray.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Sharks kill about one person in the USA a year. 

That said, I'm not going to go for a swim off the Farallons. Or off Cape Cod with the seals. Common sense.

A person with a gun who panics and starts shooting is more dangerous than a bear.

Bears kill about 1- 2 people a year in North America, maul a few more but usually they are people doing stupid things like getting into the personal space of a mama bear and her cub to get photos.

I know a Norwegian who was picked up by the head by a polar bear, and lived to tell the tale. Pretty awesome story. But again, he was camping on an island known for polar bears. He took a known risk. Most of us will never have to worry about polar bears.

I've never carried a gun. I've never been attacked by a cougar, bear or wolf. A moose tried to kick me once, but only managed to break my phone (goodbye flip phone, you are missed). 

I used to run daily in brown bear territory, usually carrying bear spray, sometimes not, never had a problem and saw a lot of bears. 

Be smart and take precautions. There are studies showing that the false-bravado that comes with carrying a rifle/gun in wild country actually gets people in more trouble with wildlife than people who just take basic precautions like hiking in a group, cleaning up camp, making noise, avoiding salmon streams during spawning season, etc. 

I know people who have died in the wilderness, and none of them died from wildlife. Avalanches, freezing water (drowning), falls, and heart failure (young friend died running in the mountains) was what killed them. In the ocean, a riptide is way more likely to kill you than a shark. In the mountains, hypothermia is far more likely to kill you than a bear.

And anywhere, a human is far more dangerous than any wild animal, with the exception of the disease carrying mosquito in tropical realms. 

I'm not saying that you should totally ignore risks of wild animals, but you do not need a high caliber gun to be safe in bear country. People I know who spend the most time in brown bear country do not even carry a weapon of any kind. These are people who have hiked the Alaska range, rafted the Yukon, or trekked across ANWR.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Forget bears. You guys on the left side need to worry about this:
https://sasquatchchronicles.com/the-bishop-california-bigfoot-campsite-killings/


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> Forget bears. You guys on the left side need to worry about this:
> https://sasquatchchronicles.com/the-bishop-california-bigfoot-campsite-killings/


NO! NO! NO!

Sasquatch stories give me nightmares  

Totally freak me out. 

I'll take the bears. Or better yet the sharks. I love sharks.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I am glad we do not have to deal with radioactive boars!


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> NO! NO! NO!
> 
> Sasquatch stories give me nightmares
> 
> ...


Really? I always thought they were friendly until I read that. You've never seen Harry and the Henderson's?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> Really? I always thought they were friendly until I read that. You've never seen Harry and the Henderson's?
> https://youtu.be/5DOX1Poxro4


I keep snakes and tarantulas as pets. I have paid to go diving with great white sharks. I have stumbled across bears with cubs...

Bigfoot and clowns will reduce me to tears.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

voodoolamb said:


> I keep snakes and tarantulas as pets. I have paid to go diving with great white sharks. I have stumbled across bears with cubs...
> 
> Bigfoot and clowns will reduce me to tears.


How does Chucky impact you?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> How does Chucky impact you?


Ok. 

Big foot, clowns, and possessed dolls can all reduce me to tears. 

Eh through el chupacabra in there too.


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

A loaded 1911. Never leave the house without it.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The mothman. Harry and the hendersons that goes way back a big blast from the past lol! Radioactive a boars is a first I never heard.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

BigHemi45 said:


> A loaded 1911. Never leave the house without it.


The very symbol of Americana. When I know a person carries a 1911 then I know deep down that that person "Gets It".


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

If anyone truly cares -I think the symbol of Americana is when you feel safe enough not to need a gun to leave the house. (Unless you lived in the middle of a wilderness forest which I would feel safer without a weapon then let's say a diner filled with people carrying a gun.)But I suppose if everyone was out eating breakfast at a diner and every person had a gun on them or at a card store buying a birthday card and everyone carried -I truly would not feel safe lol -and would feel the need to carry also.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> If anyone truly cares -I think the symbol of Americana is when you feel safe enough not to need a gun to leave the house. (Unless you lived in the middle of a wilderness forest which I would feel safer without a weapon then let's say a diner filled with people carrying a gun.)But I suppose if everyone was out eating breakfast at a diner and every person had a gun on them or at a card store buying a birthday card and everyone carried -I truly would not feel safe lol -and would feel the need to carry also.


Absolutely Jenny, I understand peoples thought process on a non-gun world but that unarmed scenario makes EVERYBODY subject to the law of the jungle where only the strongest and most brutal survive and thrive. If everybody carried then a 5 foot 95 pound woman is on the same footing as a 6 foot 250 pound brutal thug. That 95 pound petite woman could drop the thug like a bad habit although he is by far and away the stronger of the two. He could easily have his way if she were unarmed.

I tend to think of man as a fallen creature who in his current state isn't trustworthy and is capable of doing cruel and vile things to others. Thats why we need the counterbalance of an armed society.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Not if she has her German shepherd with her. Never said a "no gun world"-lol! but there are so many people that should not be carrying and does not make this world any safer. It does create false bravado like Wibackpacker and muskeg had stated which can lead to a dangerous situation. I'm not against guns. I just feel there is a huge responsibility that goes along with owning a gun that many take for granted and many people don't have that balance of stability. I can not deny that the world is getting crazier.


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## JnK (Feb 21, 2017)

Jenny720 said:


> Not if she has her German shepherd with her. Never said a "no gun world"-lol! but there are so many people that should not be carrying and does not make this world any safer. It does create false bravado like Wibackpacker and muskeg had stated which can lead to a dangerous situation. I'm not against guns. I just feel there is a huge responsibility that goes along with owning a gun that many take for granted and many people don't have that balance of stability. I can not deny that the world is getting crazier.


I interact with a lot of concealed carriers with what I do. Some of them are ignorant of many of the finer details of the laws relating to carrying a gun (prior to my educating them ), but the vast majority of them are, in fact, stable and trying to do the right thing. Their decision to carry a gun, in most cases, is very well thought out and reasoned. So I don't think that most take that responsibility for granted. I have found minimal bravado as well. Most of the folks simply choose to take responsibility for their own safety and not leave it up to someone else.
If you look at the criminal element, there is certainly instability there. But then, that's why the other people are carrying.


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

I'm 6'3'' 330 lbs and moderately trained in martial arts. I feel plenty safe wherever I go, but I carry for those around me. I couldn't live with myself if I was somewhere tragedy struck and I could have done something about it. Unfortunately these guys aren't committing crimes with their bare hands or even a knife, which I also never leave home without.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> Not if she has her German shepherd with her. .....................


I agree. That weighed on my decision to originally choose a German Shepherd. Brains, Loyal and for the most part natural defenders of their owners. An awesome deterrent to trouble.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

BigHemi45 said:


> I'm 6'3'' 330 lbs and moderately trained in martial arts. I feel plenty safe wherever I go, but I carry for those around me. I couldn't live with myself if I was somewhere tragedy struck and I could have done something about it. Unfortunately these guys aren't committing crimes with their bare hands or even a knife, which I also never leave home without.


I'm old and not near the man I used to be. I have been in a few physical altercations in my younger years. I was roughly 50/50 then. I have been on the receiving end of a good ole butt kicking before. The guy hit me so hard I couldn't see to defend myself. It was a beatdown. If I took that when I was pretty much in my physical peak... Oh mercy. No more beatdowns for me thank you.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

JnK said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Not if she has her German shepherd with her. Never said a "no gun world"-lol! but there are so many people that should not be carrying and does not make this world any safer. It does create false bravado like Wibackpacker and muskeg had stated which can lead to a dangerous situation. I'm not against guns. I just feel there is a huge responsibility that goes along with owning a gun that many take for granted and many people don't have that balance of stability. I can not deny that the world is getting crazier.
> ...


There are many responsible gun owners out there but it can not be denied though that are many unstable people that legally own guns. Which forces many people to feel unsafe and the need to protect themselves- a vicious circle.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I spent way to much time on this thread not ignoring anyone but moving on from this thread.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

BigHemi45 said:


> I'm 6'3'' 330 lbs and moderately trained in martial arts. I feel plenty safe wherever I go, but I carry for those around me. I couldn't live with myself if I was somewhere tragedy struck and I could have done something about it. Unfortunately these guys aren't committing crimes with their bare hands or even a knife, which I also never leave home without.


Seriously, y'all, what is WITH this forum and knives? And you can't keep talking about knives and refuse to let me in on some key information here. Throwing or stabbing? Forged or stamped blade? Large or small? Kitchen knife or the Swiss Army persuasion? There are so many questions!


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Not to mention even in a gun free world, thugs still have guns, it only enables criminals to do what they want. Gun regulations have proven not to decrease gun related crimes, as well.

It's a big responsibility, yes, but it should be every person's freedom to choose to carry or not.

Many people in my city carry, anywhere they want, and so far no accidental shootings that I have heard of.


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

WateryTart said:


> Seriously, y'all, what is WITH this forum and knives? And you can't keep talking about knives and refuse to let me in on some key information here. Throwing or stabbing? Forged or stamped blade? Large or small? Kitchen knife or the Swiss Army persuasion? There are so many questions!


This is my everyday knife.

https://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-St...&qid=1490201891&sr=8-1&keywords=benchmade+908


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

BigHemi45 said:


> This is my everyday knife.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Benchmade-St...&qid=1490201891&sr=8-1&keywords=benchmade+908


That's a really big price for such a small knife. What am I missing?


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Something like this would be more affordable, and I like buck knife: Buck knife

But this one is my family's favorite: Buck knife 2

For personal protection a folding blade might be more ideal, but hunting and butchering the folding mechanism tends to collect blood and grime, too much bacteria and hard to clean.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> Seriously, y'all, what is WITH this forum and knives? And you can't keep talking about knives and refuse to let me in on some key information here. Throwing or stabbing? Forged or stamped blade? Large or small? Kitchen knife or the Swiss Army persuasion? There are so many questions!


Yeah ... I guess I got screwed by "Amazon" as they sold me a "Stick." Still my experience with a dog charging mine ... with ... "intent" (Larry Kohrn's) choice of words this time ... not mine. Was a lot more action packed than mine! He put his clients dog aggressive dog behind him along his kid. And had to do a hands on beat dog on that "Chow!!" Worked out fine for him and yesss ... a lot more action packed than my recent ... stick/charging dog experiance. Maybe he to "needs to move to a better neighborhood??? :smile2:


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## JnK (Feb 21, 2017)

squerly said:


> That's a really big price for such a small knife. What am I missing?



Benchmade makes very high quality knives...they come at a price. The steel in that knife is pretty decent, the handles are G10. Their AXIS lock is a _very_ robust locking mechanism that is simple to operate. It's a great "working" blade that will hold an edge.
The Bnchmade name comes into play as well. They are well known in the knife world. I have a couple of their knives and used to carry one daily. I do like my benchmades, but I've switched to carrying a Kershaw because the prospect of losing a $60 knife somehow seems better than losing a $150 knife.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

JnK said:


> Benchmade makes very high quality knives...they come at a price. The steel in that knife is pretty decent, the handles are G10. Their AXIS lock is a _very_ robust locking mechanism that is simple to operate. It's a great "working" blade that will hold an edge.
> The Bnchmade name comes into play as well. They are well known in the knife world. I have a couple of their knives and used to carry one daily. I do like my benchmades, but I've switched to carrying a Kershaw because the prospect of losing a $60 knife somehow seems better than losing a $150 knife.


Seconding Benchmade. I have the Contego 810 and love it. Very versatile and a good camping and hiking knife. You pay more for Benchmade but in my opinion you can see why in the quality.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I prefer a Hattori Hanzō katana.......as Hanzō once said about bringing forces to bear on a charging dog "A dog's attack is never a straight line once it is upon you. It's a forest. And like a forest, it's easy to lose your way. To get lost. To forget where you came in "

SuperKillBillG


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

JnK said:


> Benchmade makes very high quality knives...they come at a price. The steel in that knife is pretty decent, the handles are G10. Their AXIS lock is a _very_ robust locking mechanism that is simple to operate. It's a great "working" blade that will hold an edge.
> The Bnchmade name comes into play as well. They are well known in the knife world. I have a couple of their knives and used to carry one daily. I do like my benchmades, but I've switched to carrying a Kershaw because the prospect of losing a $60 knife somehow seems better than losing a $150 knife.


Couldn't have said it better myself. They also offer a lifetime warranty and blade sharpening for no extra cost. I bought my first Benchmade 15 years ago and have never looked back. Still have them all too.


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## Shooter (Nov 19, 2016)

I'm more of a gun guy than a knife guy but I can really appreciate a good blade. Here is mine. It is a Hibbins III


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Haha! I do love my Gerber knife. It belonged to my son, issued to him by the Army when he was in Iraq. It has sentimental meaning for me. Plus, even though I am a girl, I like knives!  Here in Costa Rica, it is always a good idea to carry at least a small pocket knife. You never know when you may need a small knife to help free some wildlife, protect yourself, cut some rope, etc. Gibbs on NCIS always said never go anywhere without a pocket knife. Yup.


Just an added note for anyone who has loved ones deployed overseas; the single most useful tool for our soldiers is a Leatherman. Cost is about $80, and worth every single cent. They are definitely "soldier approved"! These are not issued to them, but many of us parents made sure our soldier children had one. My son used his more than once. It has functions not possible with a knife.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Some nice iron there. The knife I carry is this. https://www.crkt.com/m16-14zlek-tanto-large-with-triple-point-serrations.html it accompanies this https://us.glock.com/products/model/g30s or this Colt O7000D Defender 45 ACP 3" 7+1 Black Hogue Wraparound Grip SS - Impact Guns and this ASP Friction Loc Baton 21 Expandable 4140 Steel Shaft Black Chrome


The right tool for the right job.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> Not if she has her German shepherd with her. Never said a "no gun world"-lol! but there are so many people that should not be carrying and does not make this world any safer*. It does create false bravado like Wibackpacker and muskeg had stated which* can lead to a dangerous situation. I'm not against guns. I just feel there is a huge responsibility that goes along with owning a gun that many take for granted and many people don't have that balance of stability. I can not deny that the world is getting crazier.


There are countless people who's choice to carry goes completely unnoticed by the general public day in and day out. How can we make generalizations of "false bravado" when often we are unable differentiate between those who do and don't carry? There's always a few idiots in every group, but they do not represent the whole.


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## Mikek3111 (Mar 22, 2017)

Envious of you Americans, with the right to bear arms. In this sissy state I live in called the UK they arrest you for a butter knife let alone firearms


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Not if she has her German shepherd with her. Never said a "no gun world"-lol! but there are so many people that should not be carrying and does not make this world any safer*. It does create false bravado like Wibackpacker and muskeg had stated which* can lead to a dangerous situation. I'm not against guns. I just feel there is a huge responsibility that goes along with owning a gun that many take for granted and many people don't have that balance of stability. I can not deny that the world is getting crazier.
> ...


It is though the "idiots" I worry about and the world is filled with them.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Nigel said:


> There are countless people who's choice to carry goes completely unnoticed by the general public day in and day out. How can we make generalizations of "false bravado" when often we are unable differentiate between those who do and don't carry? There's always a few idiots in every group, but they do not represent the whole.



Absolutely spot on!



Jenny720 said:


> It is though the "idiots" I worry about and the world is filled with them.



Yeah, just look at the freeways.... :grin2:


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Good Article.

https://www.adventure-journal.com/2017/03/stop-telling-women-not-to-go-into-the-backcountry-alone/



> The wild animals and crazy weather and existential doubts we experience in the backcountry are nothing compared to the dangers of the frontcountry. There, even in a friendly setting like a campground, there are people. And* there’s nothing scarier for a woman who likes to do stuff alone than other people*.





> And unless we’re bleeding or mangled at the bottom of a cliff, if you’re a guy and you see us out there, please-just let us be. Even if you’re just trying to be nice. We don’t need your extra Clif bar. We don’t need to be asked if we’re ok. Just give us a friendly wave and keep walking, preferably in the other direction.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I used to think that having a big dog would deter conversing men from approaching me, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. I'm not oppose to a friendly conversation, but if we aren't in a public place around a few other people, then I'd rather keep to myself. Luckily Draco is not excitable to a strangers affection, he's pretty indifferent and after a quick smell he will walk away from them, but people always feel like they have to stop and pet every interesting dog they see.

I'm never rude to these people, I will never ask them to leave me alone because so far they have just been friendly people, some perhaps flirty, but still innocent. I will always keep my pepper spray accessible though.

Here is *my machete.*

The review mentions it's not sharpened, which is true but I fixed that right away, it's super cheap too and I like the soft sheath. Side note, I only carry this out in the middle of nowhere


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Dracovich said:


> I used to think that having a big dog would deter conversing men from approaching me, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. I'm not oppose to a friendly conversation, but if we aren't in a public place around a few other people, then I'd rather keep to myself. Luckily Draco is not excitable to a strangers affection, he's pretty indifferent and after a quick smell he will walk away from them, but people always feel like they have to stop and pet every interesting dog they see.
> 
> I'm never rude to these people, I will never ask them to leave me alone because so far they have just been friendly people, some perhaps flirty, but still innocent. I will always keep my pepper spray accessible though.
> 
> ...


 
I completely understand! Not an hour ago I was doing some obedience training in a park near my home. We were on the field by ourselves. Valor was paying close attention to what we were doing when I noticed out of the corner of my eye a lady and a little boy not more that probably 6 approaching us. It looked like they were just cutting across the field when she stopped about 20 feet away from us and said can he pet your dog. She was very nice and all that but training is training and I just said sorry we're training. The thing was is the boy kept approaching and I finally put my hand out to stop him from getting any closer and it then registered that maybe Valor is not a dog you can just walk up on and start petting him on his head. I said I was sorry but maybe another time. She and the boy went over to a higher spot and watched us train. 


I understand that some non-dog people don't really understand that not all dogs are approachable. Had she stopped and asked I would have brought Valor to her and the boy and all would have been good but it was clear that Valor did not want someone just walking up on him.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

Love that Machete!  Everyone here in Costa Rica has a machete, and all the farmers have one on their belt all the time.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

squerly said:


> Perhaps I should take bears a little more seriously but I've just never had any problems with them. We frequently have them around the property and not all that long ago a momma bear brought her 2 cubs up on the deck. It was early in the morning and I slept right through it but we saw them the next day on our security system. In every case (so far anyway) the bear is anxious to get away from us and they high-tail it across the woods.


For those who have the bandwidth available, here is a video I shot a couple of years ago outside our cabin here in NC. The camera was a very cheep one and the pic is very grainy, but if you have the patience it's actually a pretty cool video. Momma bear brings her cubs up onto the deck where they snoop around for awhile and then at the end of the video they all pile into the back of the RTV before heading back out across the field. (Note: Bears arrive at :40 into the video.


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## LoboFloppyEars (Oct 15, 2016)

Okay so I haven't read every single reply on this thread but something is bothering me. I might get a little political here.

While most of the people here seem to be in support carrying some type of weapon whether be a knive, stick, gun, why are there people who are against this? At least most of y'all own a German Shepherd, or at least have a high content GSD Mix like I do, aka a breed that's well known for it's protective instincts.

We may all love the breed but not everyone else does. Some people strongly dislike these dogs and think these dogs are an abomination because of how "aggressive" they are. Usually I would think that the people who are in favor of breed bans and BSL are the same people who are completely against guns and weapons in general. You know, those who are against any kind of self defense and yes there are people like this out there.

Yet on this post there seems to be some people who are against carrying weapons. How? I don't expect to find these personalities on a forum dedicated to a powerful breed known for its protective position that some adore and others consider to be downright dangerous.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> While most of the people here seem to be in support carrying some type of weapon whether be a knive, stick, gun, why are there people who are against this?


I am not against somebody else carrying some type of weapon but I CHOOSE not to carry anything when walking my dogs, no phone, no nothing. I like to walk free and unfettered. I should not be forced to carry a weapon because of somebody else's ill contained dog(s). What is the old saying? Your rights end where my rights begin.



LoboFloppyEars said:


> Usually I would think that the people who are in favor of breed bans and BSL are the same people who are completely against guns and weapons in general.


You would very much be wrong. Do you know anybody that supports breed bannings or BSL? I know many, and because there is no BSL or ban where they live, they all adamantly support one's rights to protect themselves and are ardent supporters of carrying weapons.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Okay so I haven't read every single reply on this thread but something is bothering me. I might get a little political here.
> 
> While most of the people here seem to be in support carrying some type of weapon whether be a knive, stick, gun, why are there people who are against this? At least most of y'all own a German Shepherd, or at least have a high content GSD Mix like I do, aka a breed that's well known for it's protective instincts.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for others but speaking for myself ... I don't care what other do. All the gun toting, knife carry talk out there ... merely confirms what I do and what I advocate. 

No one here would have an issue with me or my dogs ... becasue I keep my distance.* "I don't know you I don't know your dog. You keep your distance ... I'll keep mine ... works out fine." * Loose dogs ... tend to violate that. But if anyone here wanted to meet and my dog(S) ... make a reservation. 

Beyond that ... I now carry and use a "Walking Stick" to protect myself and my dogs. I'd just as as soon not casue harm to someone's untrained loose dog ... if I do not have to. But you know that's my "choice" others of course free to do as they see fit.

Most likely if someone here has a dog they can't control ... folks like me are the next best option???


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I simply don't feel like I need to carry a deadly weapon when I'm out enjoying a hike or run with my dogs. If I did, the amount of training I'd need to safely carry and deploy a gun would take up a lot of my spare time, of which I'd prefer to spend with family, friends and/or the dogs.

I chose a powerful, protective breed because I love the entire package. The aggression is part of the package but not the whole. It makes me very sad when people breed to produce the most aggressive, sharp specimens of my breed. I like a dog with balance and a thinking dog and a dog who can live in a family situation when his work is done. This is why I love the GSD-malinois breeds.

The deterrence factor, trainability, loyalty, and beauty are also some of the major reasons for my breed selection.

I do not live in an area where I encounter aggressive dogs often- I have never encountered what I'd term an aggressive dog with intent in this area.


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## np307 (Feb 22, 2017)

I'll just say that I don't just carry a firearm when walking my dog, but almost all the time. I don't make a big deal of it and I don't expect everybody to do so. 

I hope that nobody here ever has to discharge a firearm in defense of themselves or someone else, against a two or four legged threat. I never have and hope I never have to. I've come close twice, once on a dog and once on a person. 

In both cases, the ability to accurately assess body language and behavior saved the situation from becoming worse. Neither was a situation that could have been avoided on my part. 

The odds of ever actually needing a firearm low, so I completely understand anyone's ambivalence toward it. 

I guess my point is that everyone, no matter what their method of defending themselves, should absolutely be aware of the world around them. Know what's going on and be able to prevent things before they happen. But also understand how to judge what's actually going on in those cases where you can't prevent them. 

A barking dog running toward you doesn't automatically mean clear leather and take aim, or swing club violently, or discharge pepper spray. 

I know some of these things have already been addressed, but I felt like getting in on the topic too. Hope I didn't ramble too much...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

LoboFloppyEars said:


> Yet on this post there seems to be some people who are against carrying weapons. How?


I don't carry my weapons on a typical walk around my neighborhood because I don't believe they are necessary..........situational awareness is still employed......could I be caught wishing I had a sidearm?.....I suppose so......I guess I consider myself fortunate not having to be so heavily fortified as many have described. Evaluation of one's environment and required measures to ensure appropriate outcomes widely varies across this country......however......complacency is a killer...no matter where one might be.....

FWIW...when I'm out of my element....on the road in the motor home....my guns come with me....I suppose it's not just for the dog....but for my wife and me as well. 

I'm guessing many who are against carrying weapons......might simply be intimidated by their "power" and choose otherwise....as it is a personal decision. I'm glad we have this option.

SuperG


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

I'd like to state that I carry a weapon for protection against *people*, not dogs. Dogs are almost always easily deterred by yelling, waving, throwing rocks or carrying a stick. I've never pulled my pepper spray out on a dog, haven't even though to do so. When force is needed I always have a leashes, willing dog at my side who is fully capable of protecting himself, but I would rather avoid killing an animal or paying for vet bills if possible.

I would feel horrible hurting or killing even a truly vicious dog, but people are much more evil and often have horrible intent. Dogs only act on instinct, usually they are just scared. Not to say I could kill someone without regret, but I feel people are the true danger to watch out for.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Don't fool yourself into thinking a German Shepherd is capable of taking on a dog fighting breed intent on doing harm.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Don't fool yourself into thinking a German Shepherd is capable of taking on a dog fighting breed intent on doing harm.


Sometimes your dog will surprise you... you never know what they can take on when needed. When I was a teenager I was out walking our doberman. Two dogs, a Chow Chow and a Rottweiler, broke through their gate and came rushing in for the attack. I had nothing to defend myself with and all I could do was unclip my doberman's leash so she was free to fight or run however she deemed fit and I was free to move away unharmed. She fought them off with ease and without any injuries to herself.
But I will admit, she was one special dog, who thought of me as her baby, and fiercely protected me. My Dad even had to make sure she wasn't around if he wanted to give me into to trouble for doing something wrong.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chows and Rottweilers are not dog fighting breeds.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Chows and Rottweilers are not dog fighting breeds.


I don't think I said they were??!!??


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

KaiserAus said:


> I don't think I said they were??!!??


My comment_ explicitly_ stated dog fighting breeds. I am not sure then why you addressed me with your comment about dogs surprising you when attacked by normal breeds.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> My comment_ explicitly_ stated dog fighting breeds. I am not sure then why you addressed me with your comment about dogs surprising you when attacked by normal breeds.


 Oh good grief! You can't quote someone without getting their back up  

You said "Don't fool yourself" and I said "Your dog could surprise you" 

I was merely sharing an anecdote where my dog surprise me. A Chow and a Rottweiler are much heavier breeds then a Doberman, not to mention it was two against one... a fight I would have thought my Doberman should have lost.
So you/us/the forum/whoever might believe that a GSD would not win a fight against a dog fighting breed, but when your dog is out there, and perceives a threat not only to itself but to its person, the person it loves with its whole heart, you just don't know what they are truly capable of.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

"Normal Breeds" ... Rotties and Chows ... no problem ... LOL???? I guess you must have missed "Larry Krhon's" recent adventure with a ...uh non fighting Chow??? 

Larry .... should have taken my tip and carried a "Walking Stick!" But his way worked to ... those who care ... you can just skip ahead to 12:32. 






There is one off color word in there for the faint of ear. Yes neighbor dog walking ... good times, good times.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

KaiserAus said:


> Oh good grief! You can't quote someone without getting their back up
> 
> You said "Don't fool yourself" and I said "Your dog could surprise you"
> 
> ...


No, I said: "Don't fool yourself into thinking a German Shepherd is capable of taking on a dog fighting breed intent on doing harm."


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> "Normal Breeds" ... Rotties and Chows ... no problem ... LOL???? I guess you must have missed "Larry Krhon's" recent adventure with a ...uh non fighting Chow???
> 
> Larry .... should have taken my tip and carried a "Walking Stick!" But his way worked to ... those who care ... you can just skip ahead to 12:32.
> 
> ...


Rotties and Chows were never genetically bred to fight and kill other dogs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

KaiserAus said:


> Sometimes your dog will surprise you... you never know what they can take on when needed. When I was a teenager I was out walking our doberman. Two dogs, a Chow Chow and a Rottweiler, broke through their gate and came rushing in for the attack.


I'm glad it worked out well for you and your dog. I can say ... seeing two dogs coming at you at once ... with intent, (you know "not approaching" in a "calm and friendly manner") kinda sorta kicks up a notch! 

Your dog did ... extremely well, your "improvised choice" was a great call ... good job.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Chip18 said:


> I'm glad it worked out well for you and your dog. I can say ... seeing two dogs coming at you at once ... with intent, (you know "not approaching" in a "calm and friendly manner") kinda sorta kicks up a notch!
> 
> Your dog did ... extremely well, your "improvised choice" was a great call ... good job.


Yes, it could have ended very badly, luckily it didn't... she got the biggest bone that night. 
She was one in a million though - she chased down and caught a guy who tried to break into the house next door. She attacked a guy who climbed into our garden (obviously also trying to break in)... he climbed in over the fence, but ran through the fence on his way out.
She jumped into the pool to "save" me from drowning... my sister and I were playing a game, I was fine, but she thought I needed saving :smile2:
And all this without any training what so ever, but those were different times. Dogs weren't socialized and they were encouraged to keep strangers out the yard.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Rotties and Chows were never genetically bred to fight and kill other dogs.


 Aww well in the "Real World" in my experiance ... dogs of assorted breeds don't seem to be aware of what they were or were not "Bred" to do?? I suppose I could ask them, if they've read there "Breed Descriptions??" But I have found based on "experiance" that all they see is my dog. And I usually don't have time to ask them questions??? 

But you know ... Larry's comment section is open ... your free to share your thoughts on how charging dogs of various Breeds are suppose to behave with him. >


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Yep, in the "Real World" dog fighting breeds will see your dog just like other breeds of dogs, but their intent and capability are far removed from that of normal dog breeds who will fight to submission and quit vs the dog fighting breeds who will fight to kill unless removed. 

Dogs of assorted breeds absolutely are aware of what they were bred to do. Pointers point birds, Retrievers retrieve, Border Collies herd, etc., all without reading their breed discriptions, after all, those are the very things that give us dog breeds. You really can't be serious and think a dog is all in how you raise and train it.

I suppose grown men who leap in front of approaching Shih Tzus who wants to say hello would be prone to asking other people's dogs questions, I would think it would be expected behavior as a following act. 

Not sure why you are hiding behind Larry Krohn, own your own words and actions.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I suppose grown men who leap in front of approaching Shih Tzus who wants to say hello would be prone to asking other people's dogs questions, I would think it would be expected behavior as a following act.


Yes ... well the "Lhasa Alpso" I make have said "Shih Tzu" but the dog was to long I think?? At anyrate he has tried three times and I spun "Rocky out of the way on attempt two and he was aiming for Rocky's rear leg! And no I did not ask if that dog read his "breed description!" Attempt number three he darted across the street! He can take his shot at someone else's dog if he does not get hit by a car first!

Three from him 17 attempts in total! My dogs and dogs under my custody are not other people's chew toys! I make no apologies! Don't screw with me dog, period end of story. 



MineAreWorkingline said:


> Not sure why you are hiding behind Larry Krohn, own your own words and actions.


 Sigh ... yes ... I'm hiding .... as you know. :
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/687457-argggg-dog-attack.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...513-argggg-dog-attack-yet-again-but-time.html

It's just Larry's hard luck that he had to go "Hard Core" on that "Chow/Mix." And since his dog aggressive fighting breed was in training, he had to make sure "his" dog stayed out of the fight .... hmmm who "also" says that is "useful??" But you know others can ask him about loose dogs encounters themselves. Pretty sure had he "planned" an unexpected loose dog encounter, he'd have chosen a different "breed." Maybe a loose Lapos perhaps ... I hear all those dogs are friendly.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Last time a small breed dog charged one of my dogs, I did not panic. The little dog stopped and sniffed my dog's rear leg. Despite rushing my dog, no intent to harm.

If a Chow mix rushed me I would not panic or worry. It is not a dog fighting breed. 

This all falls under the human knowing common breed characteristics, a little common sense when it comes to size, ability, and intent, and to mitigate their actions accordingly.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Last time a small breed dog charged one of my dogs, I did not panic. The little dog stopped and sniffed my dog's rear leg. Despite rushing my dog, no intent to harm.


Well I am certainly glad it worked out well for you and your dog. 

And was not willing to take that risk with the little dog I encountered! He only checked up the first time when he rushed towards "Rocky" head on! Slowed down enough for his owner grab him and I was already in front of "Rocky." The other times he came from the rear. And I don't "Panic" but I will match speed with speed!




MineAreWorkingline said:


> If a Chow mix rushed me I would not panic or worry. It is not a dog fighting breed.


 Yesss, OK ... good luck with that. 




MineAreWorkingline said:


> This all falls under the human knowing common breed characteristics, a little common sense when it comes to size, ability, and intent, and to mitigate their actions accordingly.


All I care about is intent and if they come hard and fast there intent is clear to me. 

Yet again ... my job is to protect my dogs and I am extremely good at my job. If loose dogs charging with intent want a "soft target" they best chose someone else ... nuff said.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

A human can't match speed with a dog, even if the dog is a small one.

There is no luck involved when one knows breed characteristics. It is calculated risk.

Intent has nothing to do with speed but is primarily a function of genetics.

You can't say you are good at protecting your dogs when you have no idea as to breed characteristics and the resultant intent of any dogs that have approached yours. All of the dogs that rushed your dogs could very well have merely wanted to play.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

I would rather take each dog on its merit depending on how it is rushing towards me... a dog intent on harm looks and sounds very different to a dog rushing over for a game rather than basing my reactions on "breed characteristics"


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> All of the dogs that rushed your dogs could very well have merely wanted to play.


All huh ... well only one did, and even in total darkness ... I was freaking right! She blew right by me under cloak of darkness. One of "our" own as a matter of fact. And as you say ... a non fighting breed. So much for that!


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

KaiserAus said:


> I would rather take each dog on its merit depending on how it is rushing towards me... a dog intent on harm looks and sounds very different to a dog rushing over for a game rather than basing my reactions on "breed characteristics"


Australia has BSL, no?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> All huh ... well only one did, and even in total darkness ... I was freaking right! She blew right by me under cloak of darkness. One of "our" own as a matter of fact. And as you say ... a non fighting breed. So much for that!


What were Rocky's injuries? No intent, that's what I thought.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Last time a small breed dog charged one of my dogs, I did not panic. The little dog stopped and sniffed my dog's rear leg. Despite rushing my dog, no intent to harm.
> 
> If a Chow mix rushed me I would not panic or worry. It is not a dog fighting breed.
> 
> This all falls under the human knowing common breed characteristics, a little common sense when it comes to size, ability, and intent, and to mitigate their actions accordingly.


Every breed has its idiots. I don't count on breed but on the behavior. One attack on one of my dogs in the past came from a Golden Retriever.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

What about animals other than dogs? Rabbits aren't going to do any damage unless it's the little white rabbit from Monty Python, but like stray cats, or squirrels. Squirrels can be evil little jerks.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> What were Rocky's injuries? No intent, that's what I thought.


LOL ... outstanding!!! Clearly your standards for "Protect your dog" are much much lower than my own???

Rocky's injury was minimal becasue "I turned into" the buzzball of fangs and fur once I heard Rocky, yelp! She came around my left side from the front from 15 yards away form the side (I know where she got out) and then cut hard left to engage! She brushed past my thigh to get to Rocky. And she had to have been charging fast, while I was focused on the dogs I could see ... I never saw her! I glimpsed black and tan at the last second as she brushed past me and I heard Rocky yelp. 

At that point, all I could see was fangs and fur and only one dog (Rocky was invisible) it was a dark mass of fangs and fur??? Reach down where and grab who??? But turning into the mass of "darkness was enough" and the dog disengaged. 

So in your world ... disengagement by the attacking dog and negligible damage on your own counts as a success???? In your world ... the above my count as a success?? In my world it's a fail! My goal is not "Break Up Dog Fights" my goal is to prevent them!! Under ideal circumstances favoring "that dog."The one ... I could not see got by me. Fortunately "Rocky" suffered no behavioural ramifications from my fail. 

Having your dog constantly attacked/harassed by loose dogs while on leash ... is not a recommended approach AFAIK??? But hey you can take your darkest colored dog and find a "BSL" area around you and go on night time neighborhood walks, armed with your "Book of Breed" Specific Behaviours" and ... let us know how it works out???

I'll stick with "my zero tolerance policy" a flashlight and "Walk softly and carry a big stick" approach. We can compare notes at the end of the year and determine which approach is better.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Every breed has its idiots. I don't count on breed but on the behavior. One attack on one of my dogs in the past came from a Golden Retriever.


Yep ... my most recent "big stick and block" counter was a non pointy eared black lab ... dogs don't read ... who knew??? It worked out fine.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

WateryTart said:


> What about animals other than dogs? Rabbits aren't going to do any damage unless it's the little white rabbit from Monty Python, but like stray cats, or squirrels. Squirrels can be evil little jerks.


Get squirrel spray for rabid squirrels :grin2: That means bringing a gun, break sticks, pepper / bear spray. And some salt if snails cross your path. Have fun on your hikes. By the way, Deja would love to encounter a charging squirrel. I am sure he wil never do it again.....


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Get squirrel spray for rabid squirrels :grin2: That means bringing a gun, break sticks, pepper / bear spray. And* some salt if snails cross your path*. Have fun on your hikes. By the way, Deja would love to encounter a charging squirrel. I am sure he wil never do it again.....


Dang slugs, the only thing I didn't care for when hiking and camping in the Cascades and Olympics. Slugs would be fine if they would stay off my stuff, but nooooo they have to slime their way into my boots and surprise me in the morning. :smile2:


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Australia has BSL, no?


Yes it does.

These are the breeds on the list..

dogo Argentino;
fila Brasileiro;
Japanese tosa;
American pit bull terrier;
pit bull terrier;
perro de presa Canario or presa Canario

However we are still allowed the Am Staff Terrier which is essentially the same dog as an American Pit Bull.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

KaiserAus said:


> Yes it does.
> 
> These are the breeds on the list..
> 
> ...


LOL ...well that's not fair! They have a hit list on Dogs I luv or derivatives thereof. I was steering towards a Dogo and then I got up in the "Boxer" thing but no regrets ... maybe some day down the road. But ... none of those are dogs for "tools." It would seem that we don't have a monopoly on "toolish-ness" in this country.


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## goofygsd (Feb 2, 2017)

I use my Walky Dog when I walk. After having people send there dog out to attack us on walks I take no chances, and it's my job to protect my dog not the other way around. My neighbors GSD became severely dog aggressive after being attacked and my neighbor stepping back and letting her try to defend herself. Anytime we've been charged I push Solo behind me and face it head on...I am after all the alpha, what good am I if I can't protect him. I sometimes carry as well, but feel the metal Walky Dog would be easier to manage if my dog is in the middle of the fight somehow. I've had a couple people send dogs out on me as my city has quite a few dog fighting rings. Stray dogs tend to leave us be when I assert myself, and I'm not the friendliest with people, so people tend to leave me alone.


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

What is a metal Walky Dog?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

goofygsd said:


> I use my Walky Dog when I walk. After having people send there dog out to attack us on walks I take no chances, and it's my job to protect my dog not the other way around. My neighbors GSD became severely dog aggressive after being attacked and my neighbor stepping back and letting her try to defend herself. Anytime we've been charged I push Solo behind me and face it head on...I am after all the alpha, what good am I if I can't protect him. I sometimes carry as well, but feel the metal Walky Dog would be easier to manage if my dog is in the middle of the fight somehow. I've had a couple people send dogs out on me as my city has quite a few dog fighting rings.


Ok ... that is off the hook crazy! What city/country are you in??? And adding a Boat Air Horn ... could not hurt. But you'd have to reach for it. But it sounds like you know the drill. No chance of moving any time soon?? Sounds like your in a pretty tight spot. 




goofygsd said:


> Stray dogs tend to leave us be when I assert myself, and I'm not the friendliest with people, so people tend to leave me alone.
> Rachael & Solo from KS


Well ... thank you, I don't really give a crap about "friendly dogs" as they don't tend to "charge!" 

Yeah ... I'm not "that" approachable when I am with my dog(s) ... if someone also has a dog. Hi from a distance ... is good enough.


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## goofygsd (Feb 2, 2017)

A Walky Dog is essentially a metal pipe with a metal attachment on the end. It's actually an attachment for a harness to bicycle, you can even get them on Amazon. I normally bike Solo as he requires exercise and I'm still too out of shape to run with him the way he needs it. I'm in Wichita, KS USA. I normally don't walk him in neighborhoods anymore for these reasons. I like to enjoy my walks, but in a neighborhood I'm always on the alert.


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Or... you can take one of these...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

goofygsd said:


> A Walky Dog is essentially a metal pipe with a metal attachment on the end. It's actually an attachment for a harness to bicycle, you can even get them on Amazon. I normally bike Solo as he requires exercise and I'm still htoo out of shape to run with him the way he needs it. I'm in Wichita, KS USA. I normally don't walk him in neighborhoods anymore for these reasons. I like to enjoy my walks, but in a neighborhood I'm always on the alert.
> 
> 
> Rachael & Solo from KS


Carp ... Kansas!!! It sounded like you were in a foreign country! Course being on the West Coast myself ... I guess you are. 

But the situation you describe ... is seriously messed up! If people have actually turned there dogs loose on you and your dog... did you report them?? And yes I know ... pretty much a useless endeavor and if you do ... you and your dog will become even more of a target.* But someone has to take stand against that kinda crap! 
*
And the part in bold ... is the right thing to do ... but as a dog owner, I'd just as soon not throw gasoline on the flames. Anyone that would do that, is already unstable! But ... it can't be just you most likely others have seen the same thing???

Maybe some kind of city council action to put "real penalties" on owners of uncontrolled "dogs" is a possibility???


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

squerly said:


> Or... you can take one of these...
> 
> 10 rounds with Squerly


Hmm ... my favorite phase "is it just me??" The link is not working???


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## goofygsd (Feb 2, 2017)

I reported it, but sadly animal control and police go to the house and ask them to produce the dog, and if they say there's no dog there and police can't actually see the dog they can't do anything. It has been like this ever since I've been here. When I first got Solo as a puppy everyone warned me not to leave him outside alone because GSDs and other "aggressive" breeds get stolen out of people's yards. I've worked with organizations to try to help, but these people are already breaking the law, they aren't going to abide by new ones placed.


Rachael & Solo from KS


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

goofygsd said:


> I reported it, but sadly animal control and police go to the house and ask them to produce the dog, and if they say there's no dog there and police can't actually see the dog they can't do anything. It has been like this ever since I've been here.


Yeah that sounds about par for the course ... but thus far it's always been a case of "He said she said???" 



goofygsd said:


> When I first got Solo as a puppy everyone warned me not to leave him outside alone because GSDs and other "aggressive" breeds get stolen out of people's yards.


Hmm sounds like you were given good advise! 



goofygsd said:


> I've worked with organizations to try to help, but these people are already breaking the law, they aren't going to abide by new ones placed.
> Rachael & Solo from KS


Oh ... Ok ... well that part is good! 
Right now it's ... a case of "you say this, they say that???" It's a stalemate ... lack of evidence?? Frankly I would think ... someone threatening me with an aggressive dog ... would be considered a threat, but I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know. But ... what I do know ... is that it's the information age and technology is your friend. 

You have to take these encounters out of the "He said ... she said relm and video them!:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009Z0QFO...TF8&colid=12PH5NGA9DFL6&coliid=I38CSOTDFOYOM0

or

https://www.amazon.com/iMaxime-Wear...TF8&qid=1490844727&sr=1-12&keywords=body+cams

I know nothing about the quality of those particular units ... but I think you get the point. If you encounter another ... "I will let my dog loose on your dog thug" ... you can get them on the record! If such is the case ... it's no longer a "he said, she said deal." >


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