# Breed Survey



## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I noticed that there is going to be a breed survey in my area this fall. I would like to know more/all there is to know! 

When is a dog old enough to participate? How do you go about getting a handler. How do you train for the event? Will the handler evaluate your dog to see if you should even attempt to show? Do people show even if they have no desire to use their dog in breeding? 

Thanks in advance for your share of knowledge.lol..I need it!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Isn't the breed survey multifaceted with one part being Schutzhund? I thought the breed survey was more than a conformation report of the dog.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> Isn't the breed survey multifaceted with one part being Schutzhund? I thought the breed survey was more than a conformation report of the dog.


Oh..I dont know obviously..lol. I was thinking there was some type of a conformation aspect..can you just participate in that?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Sorry but what is your question? Would you like to know what a breed survey is or is it that there going to be a trial/conformation show in your area that you would like to participate in?


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

The event is titled "A Conformation Show and Breed Survey"..Basically, what is that and can I show Max in it? He is 8 months old.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Ah ok yes. That is a SV conformation show and breed survey. You can show your male in the conformation show. Enter him either in the 6-9 month or 9-12 month category depending on how old he will be on show day. He can get a German SV show rating of VP (very promising) or P (promising). Google "entering sv conformation show" and you will find a very nice article by Liesje on how SV shows usually go. You can find a handler the day of or you can email the show secretary and ask if there is a handler they can match you up with. Many times handlers will email and say they are available for so and so class. You can email and find out if they will handle for you. You can also just find someone on show day. Just ask around and you can find someone. 


Here are the requirements to obtain a breed survey certification. An example of a breed survey rating is "KK1a" koered the highest for life. You are not eligible for a breed survey with your pup at this time. 
SV Breed Survey | Fred Lanting
United Schutzhund Clubs of America - Breed Survey Regulations


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## pfitzpa1 (Apr 26, 2011)

I could be wrong but I thought the requirements for breed survey participation were...

1. IPO (1 or 2 or 3) titles
2. Min 2 years of age
3. Hips certified 
4 Show rating
5. AD (endurance 12 mile run) test cert

and perhaps others.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

ponyfarm- this answers my question too:



> *3.* *Requirements for participation at breed surveys *
> ...
> - Proof at least a SchH-1 or IP-1 _Prüfung_ (test) under an SV _Leistungsrichter_ (performance judge); including at least 80 points in section C, the courage and protection phase;


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Yes, the links I posted have the pre-requirements and requirements to pass your breed survey. 

Requirements for participation at breed surveys:
- The Körung is appropriate only for German Shepherd Dogs registered in the breed book of the SV, and which have coats classified as “Stockhaar” or “Langstockhaar mit Unterwolle” (translation: “straight topcoat hair” or “long straight topcoat” — both requiring wooly undercoat). In the year of the Körung they must be at least two years old;

- Proof at least a SchH-1 or IP-1 Prüfung (test) under an SV Leistungsrichter (performance judge); including at least 80 points in section C, the courage and protection phase;

- Proof of an AD examination under an SV judge;

- “a”-stamp for hips, shown in the Ahnentafel [certified SV pedigree. Translator’s note: an equivalent issued in another country where the dog resides is satisfactory];

- ED stamp for elbows also in the Ahnentafel (if born after 01.01.2004, required starting in the 2008 show season);

- Proof of a minimum quality evaluation of “Good” under an SV judge.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Breed survey is not just conformation. Dog has to pass a gun test, protection and temperament test as well. Dog's conformation, measurements/size, dentition etc is checked.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

the Breed Survey is basically the SV "license" to breed your dog....you must meet the criteria above - Title (IPO or HGH) and it's prerequisites, Show rating, AD, hips and elbows - with only SV evaluated elbows acceptable....

The survey dogs will be temperament evaluated as a group, do 2 exercises from IPO tests (attack on handler and courage test) prior to the individual stand for exam. This takes quite a while as the judge goes through a 3 page written checklist.

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What one is it? I'm finally doing Nikon's in November! We have a BH, AD, hip and elbow OFAs, USCA registration, AKC full registration, AKC certified pedigree, SchH1 title, and show card (SG 13 months).


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

what one is what? You have to have SV elbows for an SV koer....other wise it is a USA koer....what judge are you going under???

Oops - you are doing a USCA if you do not have an SV registration....


Lee


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

qbchottu said:


> Ah ok yes. That is a SV conformation show and breed survey. You can show your male in the conformation show. Enter him either in the 6-9 month or 9-12 month category depending on how old he will be on show day. He can get a German SV show rating of VP (very promising) or P (promising). Google "entering sv conformation show" and you will find a very nice article by Liesje on how SV shows usually go. You can find a handler the day of or you can email the show secretary and ask if there is a handler they can match you up with. Many times handlers will email and say they are available for so and so class. You can email and find out if they will handle for you. You can also just find someone on show day. Just ask around and you can find someone.
> 
> 
> Here are the requirements to obtain a breed survey certification. An example of a breed survey rating is "KK1a" koered the highest for life. You are not eligible for a breed survey with your pup at this time.
> ...


Thank you for the information. I am looking to show in the conformation class. The article by Liesje was great! After reading that, I dont think we are ready..YIKES! And I tend to just jump right in with all four feet..lol..but seems a bit overwhelming. We shall see..


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Any dog born in the USA can not have an SV registration or pedigree. We can only have the USCA/SV addition to our AKC registration.

I am doing the same show/survey that Lies is doing with Deja. Deja also has OFA hips/elbows so it will only be good in the USA, but since I live in the USA and will never register pups anywhere else I don't care. Anyhow the show/survey we are doing is in Indi with Johannes Grewe. I am also showing Elena in the 12-18 month class since she will be just under 18 months (by 9 days).


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

The show in Indianapolis is the one I am talking about. Will it be a larger show?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

That's the one I'm going to.

Lee I don't really give a rats patoot about SV vs. USCA. People keep bringing that up but I have no plans to send my dog abroad and/or breed him there so it's all the same to me. It is just an accomplishment for us, him being the first dog I've raised and trained and I don't really care about all the politics. If a USCA KKL is so much less compared to an SV one then oh well. Whether or not USCA require elbows doesn't matter to me either because I always do them. I waited to show under Grewe because 1) SV/WDA will not accept my OFAs and I'm not paying another $150 and sending all my papers to Europe for months when I'm happy with my OFA results (and feel they are accurate) and 2) I have already shown my dog to Grewe "unofficially" because being my very first GSD that's eligible for this sort of thing I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to make a fool of myself or my dog.

Pony, you can do it (as long as you have the right papers by then). Heck we can show your dog. Just practice having him hold still while people are touching him (not try to back out of the collar or sit down everytime someone touches).


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Liesje said:


> That's the one I'm going to.
> 
> Lee I don't really give a rats but about SV vs. USCA. People keep bringing that up but I have no plans to send my dog abroad and/or breed him there so it's all the same to me. Whether or not they required elbows doesn't matter to me either because I always do them.
> 
> Pony, you can do it (as long as you have the right papers by then). Heck we can show your dog. Just practice having him hold still while people are touching him (not try to back out of the collar or sit down everytime someone touches).


 Oh my gosh! Serious! I better get some stacking practice..stat..we barely know how.!! Tips,,I need tips..


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

My best tip is don't focus on stacking, just focus on standing STILL (even if not in perfect position, THAT is up to the handler) and making sure he's OK with people touching him all over, looking at teeth, etc. Not much is expected of a dog under 1 year but from the handler's point of view it's really difficult to show off a dog that is skittish or acts "twitchy" in the ring without his owner. Does he have all the right papers, and a tattoo or microchip?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Luckily all you need is a 4 generation certified pedigree from the AKC and, of course, a permanent form of identification for a dog that age.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Ponyfarm, I don't know how large Indi's show/survey is. I can't remember how many entries they had last year. I am also hoping to trial on that Friday too for Deja's 3 so it will be an exhausting weekend for me. LOL


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Pony and Lies!

Gabor will be there at OG Indy, as we are dividing and conquering. We have a breed survey for life for Frodo, a show rating and breed survey on Dena, maybe a young dog show rating for the 12-18 mos. So, he will be doing that and I will be in Nashville, as we are having a helper seminar that Sat. Might come up Sun.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Liesje said:


> My best tip is don't focus on stacking, just focus on standing STILL (even if not in perfect position, THAT is up to the handler) and making sure he's OK with people touching him all over, looking at teeth, etc. Not much is expected of a dog under 1 year but from the handler's point of view it's really difficult to show off a dog that is skittish or acts "twitchy" in the ring without his owner. Does he have all the right papers, and a tattoo or microchip?


 I think he is pretty solid..not a twitchy type of guy,,but they can always surprise you. We do ob class twice a week, so we will work on that. I have the akc papers sitting around..duh..ok I will send those in. Microchip is a HomeAgain Petfinder thing..does that count? No tattoo. 

It wont just be show line dogs right..? Working line dogs too? Max wont be sticking out like a sore thumb.? This is exciting..!!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

There were a couple working line dogs at the Sieger show last year, and they stood out. Stood out as awesome! :rofl:

(Sorry, couldn't resist! That dog WAS awesome though!)


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> There were a couple working line dogs at the Sieger show last year, and they stood out. Stood out as awesome! :rofl:
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist! That dog WAS awesome though!)


Well, in that case..WE ARE SO IN!!!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

There will be several working lines at this show. For one it is a "working" club. Falon will be entering Kastle and I think Lisa is entering a few of her dogs. I will be bringing a show line but only to survey, he's not going to show. Sue and Gabor's dogs will all be working lines.

You would need the full AKC registration, make sure the microchip can be read/found, and you need the 4-generation certified pedigree from the AKC (I think it's like $32).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Another thing you can work on is making sure the dog is in great condition. With a young dog, sable, probably not excessive coat like show lines the judge might like or expect to see the last few ribs. I'm not saying starve the dog but make sure the dog can gait for about a half hour or so and not be too tired or out of breath and that the dog is really lean.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

lhczth said:


> I am also showing Elena in the 12-18 month class since she will be just under 18 months (by 9 days).


Kastle will be only 2 days shy of the 18 month  Hoping that will bode well for him since he's so small!



Smithie86 said:


> Pony and Lies!
> 
> Gabor will be there at OG Indy, as we are dividing and conquering. We have a breed survey for life for Frodo, a show rating and breed survey on Dena, maybe a young dog show rating for the 12-18 mos. So, he will be doing that and I will be in Nashville, as we are having a helper seminar that Sat. Might come up Sun.


Oh, I didn't know either of you were coming - yay! 



ponyfarm said:


> It wont just be show line dogs right..? Working line dogs too? Max wont be sticking out like a sore thumb.? This is exciting..!!


I have a longcoat working line - we will stick out, the rest of you will look "normal"


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Falon, I might drive up. Depends on the seminar on Sat.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

This will be a great time..all of my forum "mentors" will be attending. I cant wait to meet everyone!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I will be showing 2 working lines and surveying the one. 

Lies, guess I had better get Elena in shape. She has a bit more coat. Lean and mean won't be a problem for Deja, but she definitely does NOT have a show dog coat. We are going to need to practice the ring stuff beforehand too and get them both used to gaiting with other dogs around them (or in front since they are working lines LOL).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm not sure what to do with Nikon! He's been out of coat all summer and still no sign of it coming back in (I can brush him for ten minutes and only get one or two rake-fulls). I can see most of his ribs despite him eating a lot and not doing a whole lot. I'll probably bike him again to make sure he has the muscle and endurance.

This was Nikon a few weeks before his first SV show. I took him to an SV ring training/handling seminar in Kentucky and was told he was outright fat, lol.









This is him a few weeks later, basically in the condition he showed in (at 8 months) and he was not critiqued as being too fat (or too skinny). As a young dog he had a pretty tight coat for a show line dog, always looked more like a working line so for him showing some rib was considered fit.









I'm not personally going to nitpick other people's dogs but I'm just saying this because I see it at every show, someone shows up with a puppy who is the light of their world and then gets crushed when the judge says the dog is fat (and to most of these German judges, it is black and white! The dog is either correct or its fat).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Kathy you do not need a collar, I have them (18', 22', 26'). I usually show all dogs in the 26" because it's the nicest and they are shown loose, but it can be doubled back to fit a smaller dog. Falon and I both have the 8' leather show leash.

I believe you do have to be a USCA member to show (or SV member). I found this on another club's website, a club hosting a show this month, "Anyone who is a USCA member or a member of another WUSV German Shepherd Organization may enter any class."

Aside from that you would need to bring the AKC registration certificate and the AKC 4-generation pedigree.

I do not see any entry info up on the web site so I don't think we can enter yet. It's usually about $50 to enter the puppy classes and when you enter you will send photocopies of the papers mentioned above. When we check-in we show them the real papers. If you need to order the 4-gen pedigree and don't have it when you enter usually that is OK (the AKC will let you download an unofficial "research" pedigree which you can send in and then show the real one at check-in and give them a photo copy then).


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Liesje said:


> Kathy you do not need a collar, I have them (18', 22', 26'). I usually show all dogs in the 26" because it's the nicest and they are shown loose, but it can be doubled back to fit a smaller dog. Falon and I both have the 8' leather show leash.
> 
> I believe you do have to be a USCA member to show (or SV member). I found this on another club's website, a club hosting a show this month, "Anyone who is a USCA member or a member of another WUSV German Shepherd Organization may enter any class."
> 
> ...


ahhh. thanks! Max is going over today to set up his conditioning program..swimming and treadmill! I ordered the pedigree and registration certificate. I will get an 8 foot lead! Cant wait!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Don't worry about the lead either, we can use mine. I don't think our group/friends has any other dogs in his class so it will be fine. I have a nice one I bring to shows and even though handlers usually have their own, my handlers have always used mine.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I love how Nikon looks in the second picture! I really like a trim dog and can see why the judges would want to see such. They just look so much better.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> I love how Nikon looks in the second picture! I really like a trim dog and can see why the judges would want to see such. They just look so much better.


 And just the opposite of showing Welsh Ponies on the line..they want them butterball fat. (was easier to accomplish..just lots of hay and grass..lol. You didnt have to exercise the little buggers!)


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## summercricks (May 8, 2012)

Does schutzhund training prepare them for a breed survey if I would want to do that with my dog once she is title or do people usually train for schutzhund and then train specifically for breed survey?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

It does but it doesn't. Most good dogs will handle the bitework part of the breed survey without issue because of the SchH/IPO training, though it might be helpful for them to see the attack out of the blind at some point. 

IPO/SchH does not prepare the dog for the gaiting, stacking, showing teeth, measuring, etc parts. Today we actually did some ring training so my dogs at least know how to gait and stack (not bounce, run, hop and fidget) so they don't insult the judge for a lack of tracking.


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