# V bob vom bullerjahn schh3 ipo3 kkl1



## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Awesome pedigree and producing very serious sport dogs and police k9s


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

You aren't allowed to sell anything on this site as a normal board member, so I'm hoping you aren't selling him.

Is he yours?

Or just a dog you found on the internet and want to share? 

V Bob vom Bullerjahn - German Shepherd Dog


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

He is mine ,just wanted to share pedigree. Would'nt sell for a million bucks!


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Who are the bitches he breeded too?

Ps-why list AD when there is kkl1


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Kev said:


> Who are the bitches he breeded too?
> 
> Ps-why list AD when there is kkl1


Progeny list for V Bob vom Bullerjahn - German Shepherd Dog there's some of it...


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Very handsome boy. I like his bottom half!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

He is a dog I would potentially be interested in a puppy out of; if the dam was right....and everything else....lol. Not for the fainthearted but strong working pedigree.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Kev said:


> Who are the bitches he breeded too?
> 
> Ps-why list AD when there is kkl1


Because he's earned it, and everything he's ever earned can and should be listed. It's part of the process.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I like this dog a lot!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I like the dog, (genetically) a lot also.....but unfortunately there are very few females that I breed with him and desire a puppy. This dog is a good indication of the condition of the breed today in terms of who he can be successfully bred with.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Cliff - I am curious as to who/what lines you would cross with him? Would you feel comfortable sharing? 

I always enjoy learning from your posts, even if I don't always participate in the conversation.


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

I imported him from germany from a very small kennel that only has 1 litter a year at the most. They bred him and kept all the puppies back and pick the best for high competition trials. They did the same with his litter. All of his littermates have schh3 titles and they kept Bob back to compete with and then bred him. I've bred him several times now since he's been here and have 2 breeding lined up next week.From what we have been seeing and hearing from germany the pups can only go to expirenced handlers only.. I'am breeding him to my female in the fall (karma starkes herz) after her schh1 this summer.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

taking a very quick look into this dog's further background I see that there is an out of balance in utilizing the four founding regional types -- no wurttembergers , and the same trend showed in the two females "Bob" had been bred to . 
Breeding is all about selection . Seems almost as if the wurttembergers are being "Mendeled" out in favour of the zippier quick flashy sports models. Just watch that you don't create a breed difficult to live with , that cannot settle down, the new norm .
It is nearly impossible to find the right female for a male because the owners of the female are in the drivers seat.
Those that have what he may need might be in a different thinking process and would not be interested in him.
Now if he were a female the opportunity would exist for a compensatory breeding.
Depends on whether you are interested in one generation or looking down the road further.

Carmen


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> I like the dog, (genetically) a lot also.....but unfortunately there are very few females that I breed with him and desire a puppy. This dog is a good indication of the condition of the breed today in terms of who he can be successfully bred with.


 How can you say without meeting the dog. Whats on paper does'nt mean everything.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Isn't Schoenstadt in KY using him? Anyway, very nice looking dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

think about that breeding ! That's my point [From what we have been seeing and hearing from germany the pups can only go to expirenced handlers only] missing that balance. 
Karma Starkes Herz Karma Starkes Herz - German Shepherd Dog brings in more Yoshy, more Fero and lots of Greif and lots of Sagus , plus Asko Lutter.
here is your mating check Line-breeding for the progeny of V Bob vom Bullerjahn and Karma Starkes Herz - German Shepherd Dog

I know I swimming against the current - but there you go 

Carmen


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

au contraire mon frere -- the paper tells you a great deal , otherwise why bother posting a pedigree ?

Looking at the dog will tell you his phenotype, reading the pedigree exposes his genotype .

I can bring you to the kitchen and lift the lid on a pot of soup . Looks will tell you something. If you read the recipe you would know that there is salt to an excess rendering it unedible. 

Carmen


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

cliffson1 said:


> I like the dog, (genetically) a lot also.....but unfortunately there are very few females that I breed with him and desire a puppy. This dog is a good indication of the condition of the breed today in terms of who he can be successfully bred with.



confused here???? I like the dog too - but won't work for me either with my blueprints - lots of strength.....elaborate on the comment "condition of the breed today.....sucessfully bred with" - where are you going with that???? and is he yours? why are there few females "I breed with him"...........??

Lee


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> au contraire mon frere -- the paper tells you a great deal , otherwise why bother posting a pedigree ?
> 
> Looking at the dog will tell you his phenotype, reading the pedigree exposes his genotype .
> 
> ...


lol obviously the pedigree matters! But how do you know what bitch to breed to without seeing the dog in person and seeing how he acts! If you breed a real soft bitch to him, then yeah im sure anyone can handle the pups. On your recipe salt is salt you know what it taste like !You never know what a first time mating will produce no matter of the pedigree! But overall he produces awesome top sport and police dogs that are very level headed and social!


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> think about that breeding ! That's my point [From what we have been seeing and hearing from germany the pups can only go to expirenced handlers only] missing that balance.
> Karma Starkes Herz Karma Starkes Herz - German Shepherd Dog brings in more Yoshy, more Fero and lots of Greif and lots of Sagus , plus Asko Lutter.
> here is your mating check Line-breeding for the progeny of V Bob vom Bullerjahn and Karma Starkes Herz - German Shepherd Dog
> 
> ...


The dogs he is producing are Very balanced! Expirenced handlers mean dont buy a pup just to have laying around the house! they need a job to do everyday! Oh btw thank you for the mate check i have no clue what my dogs pedigrees are !smh!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

starkes herz said:


> Oh btw thank you for the mate check* i have no clue what my dogs pedigrees are !*smh!


That's a very scary statement to hear from a "breeder" :crazy:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

A soft female is the last female you would want to breed to this dog . Disaster . Probably very conflicted animals , sharp and shy . 
Everyone knows what salt tastes like . The point is just by looking into the pot you don't know how much is in there. The recipe (on paper) would have told you this without tasting (or seeing the dog) .


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

starkes herz said:


> lol obviously the pedigree matters! But how do you know what bitch to breed to without seeing the dog in person and seeing how he acts! If you breed a real soft bitch to him, then yeah im sure anyone can handle the pups. On your recipe salt is salt you know what it taste like !You never know what a first time mating will produce no matter of the pedigree! But overall he produces awesome top sport and police dogs that are very level headed and social!



Then how do you choose the females to breed him too? It sounds like you are randomly choosing without researching their pedigrees? Can I ask how long you have been a breeder?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think he was bing sarcastic.


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> That's a very scary statement to hear from a "breeder" :crazy:


wow! it was a joke!! are you serious?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Ah ok. The sarcasm was lost on me because of the indecipherable writing...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

starkes herz...why don't you tone it down a notch and participate in the conversation that you started instead of using sarcasm in every response?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Starkes Herz, by the way. Welcome to the forum! Debate can be lively here!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> Cliff - I am curious as to who/what lines you would cross with him? Would you feel comfortable sharing?
> 
> I always enjoy learning from your posts, even if I don't always participate in the conversation.


I would like to know this too!


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Then how do you choose the females to breed him too? It sounds like you are randomly choosing without researching their pedigrees? Can I ask how long you have been a breeder?


temprament,confrimation,then pedigree. You look for a stud that fixes the problems with your female! If your female has a small head and needs some fight drive then find a male with a good head and fight drive with a pedigree to go along. I dont breed to sell puppies i breed only to keep a dog for myself. If you want to use my stud dog to make your bitch better then great!!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So, you care what females he's bred with? I'm not really understanding your whole process.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

starkes herz said:


> lol obviously the pedigree matters! But how do you know what bitch to breed to without seeing the dog in person and seeing how he acts! If you breed a real soft bitch to him, then yeah im sure anyone can handle the pups. On your recipe salt is salt you know what it taste like !You never know what a first time mating will produce no matter of the pedigree! But overall he produces awesome top sport and police dogs that are very level headed and social!



While one on one with a dog is very helpful - and tell you what he expresses of his pedigree - I would never breed dogs with pedigrees where I see an excess of aggression, or lack of clarity (hecticness) even if I like the dog, becase genetics come through! Neither will I use a male, no matter the pedigree, where I would see characteristics expressed I do not like....

I start with pedigree and go from there....

Lee


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Then how do you choose the females to breed him too? It sounds like you are randomly choosing without researching their pedigrees? Can I ask how long you have been a breeder?


lol i bought this male just to breed to my female for myself! And to better the breed if anyone wants to use him for a stud. so yes i just buy a random dog without knowing the pedigree! You are killing me!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

starkes herz said:


> lol i bought this male just to breed to my female for myself! And to better the breed if anyone wants to use him for a stud. *so yes i just buy a random dog without knowing the pedigree! *You are killing me!



That is not what I said. 

Any reason you can't seem to intelligently participate in a conversation you started?


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> So, you care what females he's bred with? I'm not really understanding your whole process.


Im not really understanding your reason for posting?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There is "knowing the pedigree" in terms of knowing the names of the dogs and their accomplishments.

Then there is "knowing the pedigree" in terms of knowing what actual genetics those dogs could bring to a breeding.

Since breeding is a combination of genetics, and it is genetics that determines the results, regardless of what either the sire or dam are like themselves, understanding the pedigree in the later sense is very important. Good breeding involves knowing what genetics one parent has, and finding a mate that will compliment those weaknesses and enhance those strengths. And do so in more than just increasing head size, or adding more famous names to the breeding.

People with a whole lot of knowledge of pedigrees, the type of knowledge that understands the genetics those pedigrees indicate rather than just the list of famous names, are advising that while a very strong pedigree in some ways, a certain type of female (and one that is not the same type as he) would be the best way to go to create strong, balanced GSDs. Personally I agree with them. Nice dog with nice bloodlines, but a tricky dog to use for correct, balanced breeding due to the saturation of the same sort of genetics within the breeding pool and a relative lack of true compensatory females with good matching pedigrees.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

My reason for posting? Just trying to understand some of the statements you've posted. Since it's just wasting my time with your sarcasm, I'm sure I can find something better to do.


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> That is not what I said.
> 
> Any reason you can't seem to intelligently participate in a conversation you started?


 
I was just sharing my dog in case someone wanted to bring your bitch to him for a stud! Its your choice on what stud you use
! I dont know why you keep asking me about how i pick females to breed. I dont breed that often i only breed when i want another dog!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Well, starkes herz, advertising of stud dogs is not allowed on this forum per the board rules.

I think people were giving you the benefit of the doubt on that, figuring that with your posting in the bloodlines and pedigree section that you were open to a discussion of your dog's bloodlines. Hence why people are surprised by your combative attitude when the discussion became one of his pedigree and breeding selection.

If that is not the case, and this was just intended to be a stud service advertisement, than the thread will be closed.

-Admin


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Any reason you can't seem to intelligently participate in a conversation you started?


Because all he wanted was to get compliments and reaffirmations about his dog. He didn't bank on a critique and questions from breeders with decades of experience so he's lashing out with sarcasm in an attempt to discount our questions.


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Chris Wild said:


> There is "knowing the pedigree" in terms of knowing the names of the dogs and their accomplishments.
> 
> Then there is "knowing the pedigree" in terms of knowing what actual genetics those dogs could bring to a breeding.
> 
> ...


I agree! But what are you considering balanced? It all depends on what you are using the dog for.


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> Because all he wanted was to get compliments and reaffirmations about his dog. He didn't bank on a critique and questions from breeders with decades of experience so he's lashing out with sarcasm in an attempt to discount our questions.


 Have not been asked any intelligent questions yet!


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

starkes herz said:


> Have not been asked any intelligent questions yet!


How many chucks could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?


Okay, what does your dog bring to the gene pool that other studs cant?


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> Because all he wanted was to get compliments and reaffirmations about his dog. He didn't bank on a critique and questions from breeders with decades of experience so he's lashing out with sarcasm in an attempt to discount our questions.


looks like you are a troll 1100 post in under a year wow! Get out there and work those awesome bred dogs in your sig!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

haha you're a trip :rofl:


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## starkes herz (Jul 17, 2012)

Kev said:


> How many chucks could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?


 that is the best question out of all this ! I didnt know Bob would stir up so much drama on this site.lol


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I would tend to believe this statement you made "Oh btw thank you for the mate check i have no clue what my dogs pedigrees are !smh! " because you have difficulty with concepts of genotype and phenotype , have a hit or miss approach to breeding "You never know what a first time mating will produce no matter of the pedigree!" 
First , second , tenth, numbers don't matter , it is the genetic fit of the dam to which the stud is paired .
I wouldn't be inspired by a person saying "well I don't know why don't we go ahead and see what comes out of this"
and 
"How can you say without meeting the dog. Whats on paper does'nt mean everything" .


" I dont breed to sell puppies i breed only to keep a dog for myself."
Then why , by your own words "I've bred him several times now since he's been here and have 2 breeding lined up next week."
Did you keep back? 

".. I'am breeding him to my female in the fall (karma starkes herz)"

The mating check was provided as a convenience to others reading this thread . It helped make my point . 

When you started this thread you said amazing pedigree, I want to share the pedigree , yet your knowledge of "pedigree" is shaky. Not once did you say "THIS" is an amazing dog because....... 
Can you tell me about the pedigree then?

"If you want to use my stud dog to make your bitch better then great" 
A stud won't improve or make a bitch better ----- not at all -- she will be the same dog as prior to breeding -- her genetics will not change --- the stud only influences her progeny .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Well then, with Carmen's informative post to end on, it's time to close this thread.

starkes herz, there is much intelligent and legitimate discourse here if you choose to see it, and as a breeder I hope you will open your mind and be willing to learn.

As it is, between what was clearly intended to be a stud advertisement, not a discussion, and you're repeated inability to converse with members in a civil manner without insults, this thread is being closed. You are welcome to continue to participate in this forum, however I would suggest before posting again you read the rules regarding what topics are allowed, and the expected conduct of members.

-Admin


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

FYI,
This member will not be back. Thank you to those who were attempting to educate the OP and others.

-Admin


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