# SPCA exec's dog dies in car



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5is1btFRqS84jQt9YzA4Uqgy6_FtAD9AAM6800

bullcrap! she doesnt communicate with her husband, and vice versa, about where their blind and deaf dog is? i am so sick of reading about the carelessness and/or stupidity of people. what an awful way for a 16 yr old blind and deaf dog to have to leave this earth.

charge one of their







!!!!


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

How awful!


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## kaitrinn7 (Aug 14, 2009)

That's sick. How do you not know your dog is in your car, I mean, seriously.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Poor old dog, that's really too bad. Sadly the same thing happens with children a few times each summer!


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: kaitThat's sick. How do you not know your dog is in your car, I mean, seriously.


I was wondering the same thing. But in her defense I take my dogs with me a lot as well, both Havoc and Kayos will lay down in the cargo area behind the barrier and never even raise their heads when I stop. If I did not put them in there I could not realize they were in there either as I can't see them when they are laying down. 

RIP Louie.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why would her husband put the dog in the car and not tell her? 
does he always put the dog in the car for her before she goes
to work and she forgot the dog was in the car?


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

I did not read it I am sick of thie stupid people out there.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Well, doesn't that take all!







How can anyone not know their dog is in the car! And, this person is a CEO of the SPCA!

It's just too much!







That poor dog.</span>


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

I'd be inclined to give those people the same treatment they accorded Louie. How dreadful for that poor old guy. No excuses here, the owners are both idiots. I'm so sorry Louie, run free at the Bridge and look out for my Blue....

______________________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

There's more to the story than the big news stories are covering. 

The woman has a house cleaner who comes once a week and her and her husband make sure all their animals have a place to be while the cleaner is there so they won't be stressed. She often takes her oldest/favorite dog to work with her, so her husband put him in the back of her station wagon (where the dog has a special dog bed set up) just before she left for the day. The dog is small and didn't make a peep so she had no way of knowing he was back there. Her husband was following a common routine, but just didn't communicate well with her. 

I'm not saying this excuses the situation, but terrible mistakes do happen. This is a woman who has devoted her life to animals and is a big part of making the Richmond SPCA the awesome facility it is. 

She lost her heart dog because of a terrible mistake. On top of that she is now having to deal with media and some of the public making terrible verbal assaults. 

Again, I'm not saying that a horrible error wasn't made, but jumping on the hatred bandwagon will only make things worse.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Well that does shed more light on the situation. However - and I can only speak for myself here - I never leave the house without knowing EXACTLY where my dogs are: I check to make sure they are where I want them to be. (I could leave it to my husband but that would be asking for trouble.) I would especially want to check on an old guy who is impaired. She and her husband will have to live with this for the rest of their lives, so that I would guess is punishment enough. Terribly sad, and a cautionary tale.

________________________________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ya know, it is unspeakable for a police dog to die this way because there are sensors available and equipment to prevent this. It happens all the time anyway, and these same police officers wouldn't think another think of throwing the book at us poor people who do not have tax payer dollars to deck our car out with such gadgets. 

These people are ordinary people who screwed up. It is sad, an unfortunate accident. I am sure they are horrified. Maybe she will be a little more understanding when it happens to somebody else. 

The old blind deaf dog suffered and died an awful death. It was his time. His owners are disgusted I am sure, but I am also sure that they provided a good life for the dog while they had it. That shouldn't be completely negated because they made a mistake. Sometimes dogs slip out the door and get smooshed in the road. Accidents happen. 

I think that if any of us have never had a moment when they thought Shew, I just dodged a bullet, then I would be surprised. I have had a couple. I should have never got Arwen back when she went missing in the dead of winter for nineteen days. And I should have lost Babsy when she slipped her collar in a very busy parking lot. Maybe there are others that I am not thinking of, like when Frodo got his collar stuck to the deck and panicked. 

I know we all want dogs to have heavenly lives with their people. Well, people are human, police officers are human, people who work for the SPCA are human. Sometimes there are tragic accidents, most of which could have been prevented, but they were not prevented. 

Has anyone ever gotten to work and then wondered how they got there? I have done many things on auto pilate. So far, I have not left a dog in a hot car. Could it happen? Unfortunately, it IS possible. I try to leave them home in the hot weather. But occasionally I take them with me for a reason. If I were to stop at Mom's before going the rest of the way home and forgot that the dog was in the car. I could see it happening. Babsy is so quiet and loves being in the car. I think it hasn't happened yet because I have been lucky or God knows I would lose my mind if I let it happen and He has been graceful.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well said Sue.


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## Papanapa (Mar 1, 2008)

Bad things happen to good people. This was an accident. Let's not crucify people. I feel bad for the dog and the owners. Sad situation.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

my initial post may have been too harsh. it was a true accident, but one borne of a fairly healthy level of carelessness.

lets not forget here folks, it was a pretty hot day, and it got up to 91 degrees on that day. so, putting a dog in the back of a car for any amount of time is going to be very dangerous when it is stationary and not running. ive seen enough stories where dogs perished in 5 or 10 minutes inside a car with the windows open on cooler days than that.

it was a primarily complete lack of communication that did the dog in, and im sure they feel awful.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: LuvWorkingGSDsThere's more to the story than the big news stories are covering.
> 
> The woman has a house cleaner who comes once a week and her and her husband make sure all their animals have a place to be while the cleaner is there so they won't be stressed. She often takes her oldest/favorite dog to work with her, so her husband put him in the back of her station wagon (where the dog has a special dog bed set up) just before she left for the day. The dog is small and didn't make a peep so she had no way of knowing he was back there. Her husband was following a common routine, but just didn't communicate well with her.
> 
> ...


Well said. Like I said in my first post, I often cannot tell my GSD's are in the back as they will lie down and not make a peep, even when I stop. I have pulled up to the gas pump, gotten gas, gone in for a soda, come back out and still hgad to look to make sure they were okay. They just chill and snooze. 

My GSD's are a whole lot bigger than Louie so I can see how he would not be seen. 

A lady from the green board lost her dog in a heat related incident in her car. It can happen to very responsible people. It was a terrible accident and was posted here on this board as well. 

Yesterday I took Kayos to the vet. I had several short errands to run and she went with me. It was 91 degrese for the high here yesterday. My last errand was the longest, I ran into the frame shop and was in there about 10 minues. All the windows were all the way down and the sun roof was open. She still got hot and was a little distressed. I blasted the A/C and took her home immediately. That could have been a terrible tragedy yhat I would never forgiven myself for.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Well, I guess I'm just not that forgiving. When it comes to young children and animals, there's no excuse for bering a sleep at the wheel. If husband and wife had a routine with the dog, why didn't she automatically walk around to the back of the car to check for her dog? And, why did the husband put the dog in the car on a hot day without saying a word to his wife?

Oh, pleeeeze It's a matter of being responsible and conscientious. I can't say I've dodged any of those kind of bullets in my life. I know where my kids and dogs are at, at all times.</span>


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

I forgot to mention... she'll get off b/c of her "good" work and being a CEO to the SPCA. If that was average joe or jane, the penality would be stiffer as it should for any irresponsible pet owner including CEO's!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

This is a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to these people. I'm sure the emotional distress they are living with right now is more than they can bear. Accidents do happen and as self-righteous as we might be about others and their level of care, they can happen to all of us. I know because I lost my Kai to a terrible accident. Luckily my friends and family showed only compassion for me after it happened. I hope people can find it in their hearts to do the same for this family and support them in their pain and grief.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I'd be suprised if anyone has ever gotten much a penalty for this kind of situation. It does appear to have been an accident and the laws governing animal welfare tend to be pretty mild in any case.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Before work in the morning it is generally not 91 degrees. I will put my dog in the car in the morning or in the evening when the sun is not blaring down. My guess is that it may not have been dangerously hot when the dog was stowed in the car. 

If I had a dog die in my car from heat exhaustion, I am sorry, but I would bury it in my yard and there would be no involvement of anyone and no charges. While it is awful, this was not someone cutting the paws and ears off of a puppy. Oh if only I was so perfect that I could begin the stoning, but my rock would fall in the dirt with everyone else's.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

I'm far from perfect and hardly self righteous. It's more a question of being responsible to those who depend upon us. Babies and animals have no voice outside of their crying, whimpering, barking, etc. My heart goes out to the poor dog not the irresponsible humans. Perhaps if laws were stiffer for leaving young children and dogs (animals) in hot cars, maybe, just maybe people would be more attentive to those who can't do for themselves.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

these are comments from some others related to the story:

_"It's really best to leave your pets at home, instead of taking them along on errands. Temperatures in a car can just skyrocket in a car in just minutes, and that's even if it's 70 outside in the shade," Aileen Gabbey with the Maryland SPCA said.

A veterinarian says it's also important to remember old dogs succumb more quickly to heat. Humidity level is also a big factor.

"For instance, if you have an upper 70 degree day and it's 90 degrees humid, these dogs are going to have issues. They're not going to be able to dissipate or get rid of that heat," said Dr. Paul Fox, Mt. Carmel Animal Hospital._

i guess i thought most dog owners would know, even at 70 or 80 degrees, you shouldnt just set a dog in a car and leave it, not even for 5 or 10 minutes.

in my mind, not making errors like this is part of responsible dog ownership. yes mistakes can and do happen. however, this happened because neither one of these people were being attentive, at all, to a dog that, because it is blind and deaf, required a great deal of dilligence. 

either this was a normal routine, in which case she should have been on the lookout for Louie being there, or it wasnt a routine thing, and the husband should have told her he was there.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Being violently upset about a baby getting killed in a car is understandable. We do not crate a baby for eight to ten hours at a time. We do not put a baby in a fenced yard or kennel. We do not shut up the house and leave the baby running around in there. 

With dogs it is different. If you think your dog is safely in the basement or out in its run for the day and leave for work, and your husband thinks that you remembered that this was cleaning day and put the dog in your car, I can see it happening. 

Because the wife did not put the dog in the car, she did not think the dog was in the car. Because the husband has done this a couple of times for the wife he feels it is a pattern. Who really knows. The dog is dead. It feels nothing anymore. It is the owners who are suffering and possibly more than the poor old blind, deaf, dog did.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Again, at six am or at seven am, it was probably not even 70 degrees. The guy probably thought the wife would have the dog out of the car before it ever got hot outside. 

The wife never considered the dog was in the car because she expected it to be safe at home. 

Normally, it is not your every day routine that people forget to do things on, it is on days that are odd, like the second tuesday of each month when we have our club meeting. It doesn't happen every day, so I forget that I am going there after work instead of coming home, or whatever. 

And especially when your mind is on something major going on at work, it simply happens that things like, this is cleaning day, slip the mind. She should have put her own dog in the car herself. But hindsight is 20:20 they say.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

When it's 72 degrees, a car in direct sun can reach an internal temperature of 116. Even in the shade, a car can be 10 to 20 degrees hotter than outdoors, and cracking the window has almost no effect. large metal objects store a ton of heat.

please, everyone, even if its 70-75 degrees outside, dont think its ok to leave your dog in the car with the windows cracked, not even for 10 minutes. you have no idea what your dogs core temperature is when you return to your car, and all it will take is one time and you will return to your car to find a dog that is beyond being saved.

if anyone wants to hear self righteous, just let me see one more owner have their dog die like this, and i will be sure to release a tirade that may well get me banned from this board.

and btw, the high in richmond, va today is 90 degrees. the low is 70 degrees, and that was probably in the middle of the night.

it seems we have gotten too proficient at making excuses for peoples careless behavior instead of just calling it what it is.

im sure we would all agree that the goal for all of us dog owners is that when our dogs die, it will be from something that we reasonably could have done nothing to prevent. then it will truly have been their time to go.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzerBeing violently upset about a baby getting killed in a car is understandable. We do not crate a baby for eight to ten hours at a time. We do not put a baby in a fenced yard or kennel. We do not shut up the house and leave the baby running around in there.
> 
> With dogs it is different. If you think your dog is safely in the basement or out in its run for the day and leave for work, and your husband thinks that you remembered that this was cleaning day and put the dog in your car, I can see it happening.
> 
> Because the wife did not put the dog in the car, she did not think the dog was in the car. Because the husband has done this a couple of times for the wife he feels it is a pattern. Who really knows. The dog is dead. It feels nothing anymore. It is the owners who are suffering and possibly more than the poor old blind, deaf, dog did.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Sadly, there have been cases where people have left their young children in hot cars. From where I'm sitting, young children and dogs are the same. Why? Because they depend completely on us to attend to their needs. We are the ones in charge and we are the ones to ensure their safety. If a person can't take that level of responsibility seriously, they have no business having children or pets.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can defend the total lack of responsibility on the part of the owners in this story. And, here is yet another stellar example of someone in a high place of authority not leading by example in the case of the CEO of the SPCA. Yet, we want to give them a pass. What does it say about those in society who want to let people in authority or celebrity off the hook by virtue of their privileged position. Sorry, I just don't get it.

As for the dog owners, if they are suffering, they got what they deserve. I do not feel sorry for them, not one bit. I hope they have sleepless nights over what they did to the poor dog who gave them years of unconditional love and devotion.</span>


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84When it's 72 degrees, a car in direct sun can reach an internal temperature of 116. Even in the shade, a car can be 10 to 20 degrees hotter than outdoors, and cracking the window has almost no effect. large metal objects store a ton of heat.
> 
> please, everyone, even if its 70-75 degrees outside, dont think its ok to leave your dog in the car with the windows cracked, not even for 10 minutes. you have no idea what your dogs core temperature is when you return to your car, and all it will take is one time and you will return to your car to find a dog that is beyond being saved.
> 
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Thank you for saying this b/c it needs to be said. Responsible dog owners should speak out on these crimes b/c that's exactly what it is. A crime. Why should we feared being banned for giving a voice that needs to be heard. I think it's not said enough and not enough is done to prevent these highly preventable crimes from happening in the first place.</span>


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

To me it seems like a terrible accident that could of been avoided with better communication on the owner's part, but it was still an accident and accidents happen. Now if the woman put the dog in the back of her car, parked it, and went into work KNOWING the dog was back there, then yes shes totally neglagent and to blame for it. But that is not what happened here.

A terrible accident like this could happen to anyone, what about you open the door and your dog darts out before you can move and gets hit by a car? I wouldnt bash someone for that. Now if they knowingly leave their dog loose running all around outside without some form of confinement, then I would blame them for it.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ShatteringGlass
> 
> A terrible accident like this could happen to anyone


i agree...to anyone who is careless. not saying its not an accident, but it is really an accident of carelessness. sorry to hurt anyones feelings, but when dogs get hit by cars, it usually comes back to the owner being careless on some level.

putting an old dog in the back of a car on an already warm day is already a negligent act in my book. not communicating with a spouse about a totally helpless dog made it all the more negligent.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you leave your collar on your dog and the dogs get stuck and one kills the other, it is a crime. It is carelessness that could have been prevented.

If your dog ingests rat poison and bleeds to death, it is a crime that should be prosecuted because it could have been prevented.

If the dog gets stung by a bee and dies of shock, well it is a crime because you should have sprayed for bees.

If your dog slips its collar and gets smooshed by a car, you should have had a slip collar on the dog, so you pretty much deserve the pain you feel about it.

If the dog gets bit by a poisonous snakes and dies because you did not have a snake kit on you, you should be prosecuted because you should have known there were poisonous snakes in the area and had the kit on you.

If the dog gets struck by lightning it is a crime because the dog should not have been outside when there is a thunder storm. 

Prisons should be filled with negligent owners. The puppy that ingested the venesion blinds and ripped up its intestines so badly that it did not make it, ought to be right there next to the guy whose beagle got out of its kennel and ran in front of my car. 

Dogs are not babies. People let dogs be unsupervised regularly, while babies are pretty much in the front of our minds all the time, as well it should be. I am at my parents' house now, My dogs are at home (all but the one that is in my car). If I had babies there, I should go to jail for neglect. 

This thread pretty much disgusts me. Everyone knows that dogs can run in front of cars and die. Still people let them get loose. And all the people that have allowed their sheps to actually bite someone, don't they understand how close they are to having to have their dog euthanized??? When people come on the site and say, "help, my dog bit someone." people do not scream about how irresponsible they are and that they should not own dogs. 

When people say, "help, my dog is lost." People don't say that they have no sympathy for people who let their dog get out.

Accidents happen. If you trace them back, any of them, there was some type of lapse, some moment of carelessness or something that could have been done to prevent it. Those that are so adamant that people be punished and hated for having an awful thing happen will hopefully never be on the other side of the street with their dog someday. 

I think it is over seventy, and I have a dog in my car right now. Been in there since class ended almost three hours ago. I haven't even checked on her. I am more worried about her having a collar on in the varikennel than dying of heat exhaustion, but obviously I am not all that fussed about it. I would spend my entire existence failing to live if I worried about every possible thing that might happen.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

This is bugging me too. 

My old dog, Max, was in the car today. It was 95. We were driving home from the vet. The A/C was on. Prosecute me.

I took Havoc to obedience class tonight. I stopped for gas. He was left in the car while I pumped gas. Windows ALL the way down, sunroof open. 88 degrees. Prosecute me. 

Give me a break, this was an ACCIDENT. No one intentionally left the dear dog in the car to die. If I left Max in the car and went to shop and he died, that is negligence.

I don't think they even prosecuted the doctor who left her infant in the car about a year ago. Both she and the husband thought the other one had the baby. HORRIBLE accident but an accident none the less.


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## shadow mum (Apr 8, 2008)

I can't believe how judgmental some people can be. I can easily see how this tragic accident happened. Nobody is perfect, and I'm sure the people involved are heartbroken about it.

I am a responsible dog owner, mother, and I hold down a full time evening job. I have done so since my 6yr old ds was 6 months old. It is quite easy in the midst of everything going on, for an accident to happen. I will admit, I even went shopping once, and forgot my son in the car for about 5 minutes when I got home. Does that make me a terrible mother, or a horrible person? I don't think so, I think it makes me a human being.

I wish I could be a perfect person, but I can't. I don't think there is one person here that hasn't slipped at one point or another. If you haven't ever had a lapse, I congratulate you. I think that you are probably one of the very few who hasn't.

Instead of all the anger and hatred, maybe a little understanding would go a long way.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

_According to the National Weather Service, last Wednesday's temperature in Richmond was 79 degrees at 8 a.m. and had reached 91 by noon._

driving around with your AC on is not the same thing, obviously. your dog getting bitten by a bee is not the same thing, obviously.

it was at about 80 degrees that morning. thats quite warm. putting a dog in the back of a car and closing the car? thats not just an accident or an honest mistake. it is just plain stupidity, unless the car was already running with the AC on, which it wasnt.

it rises to the level of negligence. thats the hard truth. it is not a mistake any of us would make (i would hope, considering the level of dedication everyone on this board seems to have toward their dogs)how hot do you think the inside of a car is when it is 80 degrees outside?

i guess im being righteous saying shame on anyone who would put a 16 yr old dog (or any dog) in the back of a car on an 80 degree morning, close the door, and "forget" to tell anyone. 

the more i think about it, the more the story doesnt even add up to me:

-if this was routine for him to do this on the day the cleaning lady was there, then she would have known it was a strong possibility the dog was in the car. (she is there 52 times per year, after all)
-if this wasnt routine, no intelligent person would put a dog in a hot car and leave it without telling anyone.

i understand people take their dogs place in their car. im not getting on anyone for that. if you can see you dog and are insuring they are being kept cool, its not an issue. if you are leaving them unsupervised in a hot car for 10 minutes, then that is stupid.

just because it can be labelled a mistake does not mean somebody wasnt negligent. im sure it doesnt rise to the level of criminal negligence, just plain old negligence as a result of carelessness.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I can see where it's easy to forget. yeah it happens once a month, that doesn't mean that in the rush of doing things that you remember it's TODAY... heck, all last Sunday I thought it was Saturday. Yesterday, Id almost managed to convince myself it was Friday.

happens to people every day. 
the husband, who remembered that the cleaning lady was today, puts the dog in the car. The wife, who is rushing to get out the door, thinks today is Wed. Or that the cleaning lady comes next week. Or, most likely, the cleaning lady is the furthest thing from her mind.

Hubby doesn't say anything, just goes on to work, because it's the expected thing for the dog to go with wife on cleaning day. He doesn't see a need to remind her.
Wife doesn't realize that TODAY is the day, so she isn't thinking "Fluffy is with me" I need to get him out of the car.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84_
> 
> 
> i guess im being righteous saying shame on anyone who would put a 16 yr old dog (or any dog) in the back of a car on an 80 degree morning, close the door, and "forget" to tell anyone.
> ...


_

Yes I believe you are._


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: KathyW
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: roxy84_
> ...


_

i guess in this case i am being righteous, and in this case i am totrally at peace with that. it makes me a little sad that others think that action is just an honest mistake. being ignorant of the dangers of putting a dog in a car on a day that warm and leaving it (there in information that indicates he did this 45 minute before she would normally leave) is not an excuse.

i guess i think we make too many excuses for people who do stupid things, and ill admit that im not that forgiving when the result of the behavior is the needless suffering of an innocent, completely dependent animal._


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Dainerra He doesn't see a need to remind her.


that is the rub of it for me. he puts the dog in a car that we know for a fact is very warm (since it was 80 degrees that morning) and his fiirst action isnt to go to the wife and say _"honey, i put louie in the car, but its awfully hot in there."_. it is the epitome of negligence. 

i dont really expect them to be tossed in jail, but if this woman wants to use this to teach others, then id prefer they say "even good people, who love their dogs, can be negligent if they are not dilligent" not "it was just an honest mistake." it would be a more effective message, imo.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

It doesn't sound to me like anyone killed the dog on purpose or that it died from the owners being uncaring. I think it was an accident and accidents happen. I agree with Seltzer that for everything that happens you can trace it back and blame someone if that is your intention.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BridgetIt doesn't sound to me like anyone killed the dog on purpose or that it died from the owners being uncaring. I think it was an accident and accidents happen. I agree with Seltzer that for everything that happens you can trace it back and blame someone if that is your intention.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Let it be called wrongful death. The fact is there's a big difference between a dog darting out the front door and mindlessly putting a dog in a car on a hot day without telling the driver. Or for that matter, the driver taking a little walk to the back of the car to check to see if the dog is there. Afterall, the driver routinely took the dog to work with her. Would it not be a matter of rountine to take that little walk to the back of the car to check on the dog?

Therefore, because it's conveniently called an accident, no one is accountable. Of course, accountability doesn't bring the dog back. Does accountability have any effect at all? Is saying I'm sorry good enough when every summer we read about these preventable tragedies? 

Or, maybe it's just plain old judgmental and self righteous to expect dog owners to be responsible for the health and well being for their pet. Maybe it's expecting way too much of anyone who accidentially leaves their dog in a hot car and it's wrong of us to be not so forgiving.

Who knows. Maybe the husband intentionally put the dog in the back of the car on a hot day and intentionally didn't tell his wife about it. Maybe the husband hated the dog. Maybe husband and wife had an argument. Who knows. The only thing I know is the dog died due to carelessness and irresponsibility. And, there are those who just want to chalk it up to a little oversight.

</span>


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Im sure that the people involved hold themselves VERY accountable. 

as for the weather, since I wasn't there to judge wind/heat/humidity I don't know if it was too warm when he put the dog in the car. yesterday was 75 degrees here, super humid and so muggy it felt like someone threw a wet wool blanket over your head. suffocating hot!!

today is mid 80's, low humidity, a bit overcast and a cool breeze blowing. being outside is wonderful. even my car shut up all day wasn't killer hot inside and it was sitting in full sun for over 8 hours.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

if its 80 degrees (which it was that morning) outside, then it is a guarantee that its hotter than that in a car, and too hot for an old dog, period.

im concerned about making excuses because it inevitably leads to more people thinking its ok to have a dog in the car unsupervised in an uncooled car during the summer. half the quotes i see from owners whose dogs died in a hot car say something like _"it wasnt that hot today, i thought he'd be ok in there."_

i wont even leave my dogs in the car if its 70 degrees because in 10-15 minutes it will easily be 90+ degrees in the car until the car is cooled down by some means.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84if its 80 degrees (which it was that morning) outside, then it is a guarantee that its hotter than that in a car, and too hot for an old dog, period.
> 
> im concerned about making excuses because it inevitably leads to more people thinking its ok to have a dog in the car unsupervised in an uncooled car during the summer. half the quotes i see from owners whose dogs died in a hot car say something like _"it wasnt that hot today, i thought he'd be ok in there."_
> 
> i wont even leave my dogs in the car if its 70 degrees because in 10-15 minutes it will easily be 90+ degrees in the car until the car is cooled down by some means.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I concur with all of the above.</span>


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I try to give the benefit of the doubt and in this case, I really do not know that the car was outside at all. It may have been in the garage. 

My father has been known as my mother's pitt bull. He does things for her all the time. When they were both working, he would routinely start her car for her before he left. In the winter it would make the car toasty warm (he would clean it off too). In the summer the AC was on so that she was not uncomfortable in her suits and stockings. 

If the cleaning lady came once a month, it would be so easy to not remember that today was the day. If there was some mention about the cleaning or the cleaning lady at dinner the previous night or at breakfast or whenever, the guy might not have even considered that she wasn't thinking about it. 

So what do we do with this? We can get all hepped up and blame and point fingers and get mad. Or we can look at how it is conceivable to happen and make sure it does not happen to us. 

IF YOU LIVE WITH OTHERS AND DOGS, MAKE IT A POINT THAT ONLY THE PERSON DRIVING PUTS THE DOG IN THE CAR. 

That way when you go to leave the car whether in the shade or in the sun, you know who all is in the car. 

I would not be surprised if this woman could have pulled her dead dog out of her car and buried him with no one the wiser, it is possible that she has let this be known, not to take heat from everyone, but to let this example save someone else's dog somewhere down the line.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

<span style="color: #FF0000">Let it be called wrongful death. The fact is there's a big difference between a dog darting out the front door and mindlessly putting a dog in a car on a hot day without telling the driver. </span>

Is there? You can either accidentally leave a dog in the car because you did not know it was there or you can open your door knowing your dog dashes and knowing the dog was within range of the open door. To me the door dasher being hit is far more irresponsible because the owner is aware of the issue, sees the dog and opens the door anyway. 

In either case the are tragic accidents.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Or, maybe it's just plain old judgmental and self righteous to expect dog owners to be responsible for the health and well being for their pet. Maybe it's expecting way too much of anyone who accidentially leaves their dog in a hot car and it's wrong of us to be not so forgiving.</span>

No it is not judgmental but this was not a typically irresponsible pet owner either. Certainly hope you never need forgiving for a tragedy with one of your dogs.


<span style="color: #FF0000">Maybe the husband hated the dog. Maybe husband and wife had an argument. Who knows. 
</span>

That is probably reaching a bit. 

Yes I feel very badly that this happened. Yes It makes me angry that there was such a poor communication between the three humans involved and the poor dog paid with his life. But it was an ACCIDENT! Not INTENTIONAL. 

You may not agree with it but be a Christian and consider forgiveness. If you cannot or will ot may God help you one day.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

If in a moment of stupididty I ever do something that harms one of my pets someone please remind me not to post about it on this board.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: selzerwe can look at how it is conceivable to happen and make sure it does not happen to us.
> 
> IF YOU LIVE WITH OTHERS AND DOGS, MAKE IT A POINT THAT ONLY THE PERSON DRIVING PUTS THE DOG IN THE CAR.
> 
> ...


i cant help but being very angry about this, but i agree with these points.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wonder if many dogs die in the early stages of alzheimer's disease. My great uncle would forget how to get home and be lost for hours and even days. I wonder if they simply sometimes forget they took the dog with them.

I wonder if we could make alzheimer bracelets for people. One feature could be a remote that would read a sensor on the dog's collar. If the temperature was too high, like over 100, the sensor would trigger an alarm and a small display would display "Check the Dog." Or maybe it could just bark and whine incessantly until the temperature was lower.

At this point you may have to be close enough to the dog for it to work, so many hundred feet. But with cell phones, etc, it is possible that your cell phone technology could provide this service.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

oh I set everything on my blackberry to remind me. otherwise, Id forget my own name.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

We train at my house and the group that comes over is normally very good about making sure the gate is secure when the last one leaves. In addition, usually both my husband and I check and will ask the other person if they checked. Really the gate status is normally a topic of 3 or 4 seperate conversations....LOL

I don't know what happened one night. The last guy out, usually our most responsible person didn't lock it. For some reason, I didn't check. My husband didn't check. And as unbelievable as it is to any one who has witnessed one of our gate routines at no time in the evening did we check with the other person. 

Gate was shut but not locked and the next morning a couple of dogs suddenly appeared in the front yard. This could of been very very bad and could of resulted in one of my dogs getting hit by a car.

Would it of been irresponsible, yes. Would it of been indicative of a general irresponsible behavior towards my dogs or show my lack of regard for their well being? I hope not. Would it of meant that perhaps my husband secretly did not like my dogs? Well, lets say that would be fighting words......

And I hope if I was mourning the loss of one of my dogs and carrying the additional burden of my guilt that I would be treated with a little kindness.

For those who are so certain that this or something similar could never happen to them because they are so careful and take their responsibilities so seriously I applaud you. Seriously, no sarcasm. I would like to caution you though, because sooner or later, life does have a tendency of making a mockery of such statements.

At least mine has...

Oh, and we now double gated between us and the road.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Betty I think that was the best post on this thread. 

I would dare someone to challnege and call me irresponsible. We moved about 4 months ago and our set up in the new house is far different than the old house in Oregon. One day I thought I had the yard secured and let the dogs out. Well the garage door was up, the man door was open and the gate was not latched between the run and the garage.

Kayos and Havoc were in the garage trying to figure out what was up and Max was down the street, lost in his senior fog. 

It took me about 30 seconds to realize what I had done and I got Max back unharmed. It could have been another senseless tragedy. I posted that story here as I was so upset with myself. I got nothing ut understanding from the board. 

Why can some not understand this was horrible drop in communication and offer support? You don't have to agree with what happened, I don't, but you do need to be human and see that this was not intentional. It was a lapse that was not criminal.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: KathyW<span style="color: #FF0000">Let it be called wrongful death. The fact is there's a big difference between a dog darting out the front door and mindlessly putting a dog in a car on a hot day without telling the driver. </span>
> 
> Is there? You can either accidentally leave a dog in the car because you did not know it was there or you can open your door knowing your dog dashes and knowing the dog was within range of the open door. To me the door dasher being hit is far more irresponsible because the owner is aware of the issue, sees the dog and opens the door anyway.
> 
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>First off, please be careful about imposing any religious point of view here. I am not a Christian. My spiritual point of view has nothing to do with GOD or Christianity. One does not need to be a Christian to have forgiveness in their heart.

As for the husband hating the dog... who knows? Does anyone know the whole truth and nothing but the truth in this tragic situation? I think not.

And no, I think a dog dying as a result of being stuck in a 4 wheel, death trap oven for 4 hours is far worse than a dog dashing out the door. It's my opinion as everyone else here also has an opinion.

I'm extremely careful with my children and my pets. Perhaps I'm one of the neurotic ones; perhaps my overseeing, caring, level of responsibility I have and feel is over the top. I'll accept that. Guess I can have lot worse going for me, eh?

I stand by my position that this is a tragedy that is completely and positively avoidable. I don't need to forgive the humans responsible for the death of their dog. They need to forgive themselves.</span>


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Perhaps you can find it in your heart to send out some positive energy into the world for all of us who are not perfect. I have had many people tell me they'd like to die and come back as one of my animals but I have made mistakes over the years because I'm human.









After 20+ of sharing my life with dogs I have nothing but compassion and empathy for these people.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Anyone who has so much rancor in them about a situation has to come to a level of acceptance or if you please forgiveness. It does not mean that you have to go up to them and say "I forgive you."

If there is anger, there is dis-ease. 
The way to ease is to forgive in your heart. 
The way to forgiveness is acceptance. 
Acceptance that they are fallable human beings as we are fallable human beings. 
As careful as we can be with regards to our most precious, there will be occasions where the fallable man/woman will fail. 

The alternative to acceptance/fogiveness is to rot in your anger which does nothing positive and will up your blood pressure and reak havoc on your digestive tract. 

My frustration at this thread is that people seem ready to form a lynch mob over a tragedy, and the lack of charity and humanity is unsettling. 

I understand that it is a horrific way to go, but we on this thread have fretted over it far longer than the poor beast who is beyond all suffering this day.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i guess my problem is that i see putting an old dog in a warm car without telling anyone as negligence and not on the same level on other examples being given in this thread. 

my fear is that excusing this type of negligence away creates a culture where other people will not be more careful about doing the same thing.

maybe my mind is clouded by the fact that dogs being put in hot cars and dying seems to happen way too often. there have been so many stories this summer about this. 

i dont want to bash these people into submission. if this is to be a true teaching opportunity, i want them emphasize that even people who love their pets can be negligent if they arent aware of certain dangers. imo, people would take it more seriously than if they just say, "oh, i forgot" and "well, it was an honest mistake." id be fine with that.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

You know, I've read so many stories of both kids and dogs left in hot cars to die that it lead me to speculate about how someone could possibly let that happen. But when I was taking Halo to daycare twice a week for several months as a puppy, I realized that she laid down so calmly in the back of my wagon and was so quiet that I could neither see nor hear her for the duration of the drive. And it occurred to me that if I somehow forgot that this was a day I was to drop her off at daycare, it wouldn't be all that difficult to get to work and not notice that she was still in the car. At the time, temps were not bad here (winter, early spring) and a tragedy would probably not have happened even if I were to forget about her, but I could see how easily that could happen if it were some other part of the country and some other time of the year. Fortunately, I never did forget that I had a puppy in the car. But I could have.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: selzerIF YOU LIVE WITH OTHERS AND DOGS, MAKE IT A POINT THAT ONLY THE PERSON DRIVING PUTS THE DOG IN THE CAR.
> 
> That way when you go to leave the car whether in the shade or in the sun, you know who all is in the car.


That is a very good idea.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Quote: i dont want to bash these people into submission. if this is to be a true teaching opportunity, i want them emphasize that even people who love their pets can be negligent if they arent aware of certain dangers. imo, people would take it more seriously than if they just say, "oh, i forgot" and "well, it was an honest mistake." id be fine with that.


That is one of the nice things of the internet. Things like this do get publicized and I think people are much more aware of the dangers then they were before. It makes me wonder how often this did happen before the mass communication we have now. Heck, when I was a little girl, our house alone our car did not have air conditioning.....

I don't know this couple but I'm taking a leap here and saying I think they were devoted to their dog. He was older and had medical problems and obviously was still a part of this couple's day to day life. 

Because of this woman's job, she is probably more aware then most people of the horrible suffering her dog went through. 

And then her time of grief and mourning is all over the net and the news.

And I wonder what people are saying to her face, the emails she is probably getting and I do wonder how the heck it even got in the papers?

I haven't gotten any sense that the couple involved has tried to brush it off as a simple mistake or have shrugged it off. And until I do, I will feel compassion for this family and for that poor dog. 

We can educate without villafying the owners.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> my fear is that excusing this type of negligence away creates a culture where other people will not be more careful about doing the same thing.
> 
> maybe my mind is clouded by the fact that dogs being put in hot cars and dying seems to happen way too often. there have been so many stories this summer about this.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I would like to further add, responsibility and being a conscientious pet owner has nothing do with being a perfect human being - it has everything to do with being responsible.

Based on what some have expressed in this thread, I guess the message is to simply forgive and forget b/c afterall, it's only human to forget your pet or young child is baking away in a hot car. Personally, I cannot accept that mindset. 

If we just excuse a dog dying in a car b/c the owner was unaware or simply forgot, then we can expect these tragedies to continue. In effect, the irresponsibility is being condoned. Nothing changes and dogs will continue to suffocate in hot cars b/c it's a human frailty to "forget" or simply be unaware. Ignorance becomes a convenient excuse.</span>


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The vast majority of people (not me) but most CEOs have garages attached to their house. Usually at least the wife's car resides in the garage, not baking in the sun like mine. 

I would still have to believe that the guy put the dog in a cool car inside an insulated garage. But I do not KNOW this. 

I have a hard time a guy could open the oven and put the dog in and close it down. That WOULD be criminal. 

I think that the car was probably in the garage and the act of putting the dog in the car in and of itself was not cruel. 

The act of driving to work not knowing the dog was there was not cruel.

The act of forgetting to mention the dog was there, or forgetting that it was cleaning lady day, was simply a human failing, one that I could see making myself. 

So I see this as a tragedy, not an act of cruelty and I have compassion for the owners.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Quote: Based on what some have expressed in this thread, I guess the message is to simply forgive and forget b/c afterall, it's only human to forget your pet or young child is baking away in a hot car. Personally, I cannot accept that mindset.



This might be the problem, the lack of being able to fully communicate on the internet.

I don't think anyone expressed that, at least that's not how I have read any of the posts. I think a lot of people have looked back on their own life with the dog and can recall one or two incidents of "there but for the grace of God go I" tpe of thing.

It is much easier when you read of a tragedy to be able to find someone to blame and hate. It is much able to process and ultimately to accept. "I would never do this, therefor this will never happen to me."

You know what, sometimes no matter what in that split second when you ying instead of yang it happens.

No one on this thread is advocating that it is ok for dogs or children to bake in a car. No one.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Betty! I don't see anyone saying it's okay either. I know it can be learning experience for me if I think of how something like that MIGHT happen to me because then I can also think about ways to make sure that it never does.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Goodness gracious. If we put half of the energy into going out and doing something to educate people about dogs in shelters or dogs in cars on hot days that we're putting into arguing over semantics we might be able to make a difference in the world.









No one is saying it's ok to leave a dog to die in a car or to purposefully allow your dog to get hit by a car or whatever other accidents have happened. What we are saying is that no matter how conscientious we are, life happens. These are not horrible people who neglected their dog. They had a lapse in communication that had a terrible outcome. They deserve our compassion. I agree that it would be great if they use their experience to help educate others. And maybe we can stop running in circles in this thread and walk the walk instead of just talking the talk are and take some action to educate in our own communities.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowGoodness gracious. If we put half of the energy into going out and doing something to educate people about dogs in shelters or dogs in cars on hot days that we're putting into arguing over semantics we might be able to make a difference in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I think what is upseting to me the most aside from the loss of the dog, is the dismissive attitude the seems to prevail. I think the whole point is being missed. If this situation is written off as just another tragic accident, where does it end? 

Maybe people should be required to get a license to transport animals in the summer or in hot states? Maybe if people were forced to register, these tragedies would occur less. I don't know. All I know is these "accidents" are completely avoidable. It's just too convenient to dismiss it with "life gets in the way" or "I forgot", or "I failed to tell my spouse, oops". 

I do my own little thing on twitter. I periodically send out messages to not leave dogs in hot cars. If I see a dog locked inside a car, I'll try to bring it to someone's attention, ie, calling the police. We can all make these small efforts however, unless something more significant is done, ie., stiffer penalties or licensing requirements and much more outreach in the way of education, these avoidable tragedies will continue. 

If society keeps insisting these are merely accidents, and "oh too bad for the poor dog", and let's not beat up on the owner b/c I'm sure they feel bad enough already, and that's it, every summer or in hot states, as sure as the sun rises in the east, we will continue to read about these horrible situations.

And, yes, instead of wasting so much energy going back/forth on a thread, better put that energy to good use by coming up with constructive ways to help prevent these tragedies in the first place.</span>


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Betty101We train at my house and the group that comes over is normally very good about making sure the gate is secure when the last one leaves. In addition, usually both my husband and I check and will ask the other person if they checked. Really the gate status is normally a topic of 3 or 4 seperate conversations....LOL
> 
> I don't know what happened one night. The last guy out, usually our most responsible person didn't lock it. For some reason, I didn't check. My husband didn't check. And as unbelievable as it is to any one who has witnessed one of our gate routines at no time in the evening did we check with the other person.
> 
> ...


Great post.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowGoodness gracious. If we put half of the energy into going out and doing something to educate people about dogs in shelters or dogs in cars on hot days that we're putting into arguing over semantics we might be able to make a difference in the world.
> ...


You can not legislate away the very human trait of making mistakes and the astounding amount of stupidity out there. There are already laws on the books for neglect and cruelty. Ticket those who let their dogs die in the car.
Personally, I don't want MORE government interference in my life.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: gsdsr#1
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I honestly didn't think for one minute my proposal for licensing would be popular.







As for government.... you might just need to get used to it b/c I don't see it riding off into the sunset anytime soon. In fact, I think more government is just over the horizon put that's for a political discussion.

Well, let's put it this way, it's against the law to use your cellphone and/or texting while driving... requiring dog owners to register to transport dogs in the heat may not be a bad idea if it means less dogs will die due to whatever one wants to attribute it to, ie., human oversight, stupidity, caullousness, etc. Again, I do not expect to win the popular vote...</span>


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I spend most of my time, money, and energy, trying to figure out ways to save dogs from bad things happening to them. So it's not that I have a dismissive attitute or don't care, but this was an accident - a horrible and tragic accident. And as horrific as it is, the best way to prevent similar situations is to publicize it and get people thinking about what can happen and how to be more careful. It's not to demonize the people who did it.

I don't know if you're not involved with shelters and rescue at all or what, but we see cases of abuse, neglect, and negligence on a multiple times per day basis. That doesn't make us immune to it, but it does put it in perspective. Were these the best dog owners in the world? Doesn't look like it. If my husband did something like this and one of our dogs died would I ever be able to forgive him? Would he be able to forgive himself? Probably neither. But in terms of what we need to be working on cracking down on with legislation, this isn't even in the top 50. 

How on earth would this proposed licensing even work? Last night I drove a transport for some shelter cats and I took Grace with me. I was in the car or next to the car the entire trip except for a very brief bathroom break. I had the A/C on and it was quite comfortable in the truck. When I stopped to go to the bathroom it was nightime and I just went in long enough to do that and then got my food by going through the drivethrough. I feel like I was being exceedingly careful. But would I need a license for that? Should I have been arrested for my pee break? How is an officer supposed to verify my story that I was inside the store for literally less than 5 minutes? Are you wanting police officers to pull over people with dogs in their cars? If that happens, how many dogs like Grace will end up shot because they're trying to protect their mom from what they see as a threat? How many will get loose on the highway when the owner pulls over? It's simply not workable. 

Far better to put that energy into spreading the word about the dangers of hot cars and devote the rest of the energy to the zillion other things that are threatening dogs in this country far more directly than a man who forgot to communicate with his wife.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

that would mean every dog owner would have to register. driving to the groomers, taking the dog to the vet, etc etc etc. and licensing isn't going to stop stupid mistakes or accidents. it just means a fine if you DIDN'T apply for the license. everyone transports dogs/cats/animals; there are cruelty laws on the books already. If people were punished using the laws we have, less PURPOSEFUL stupidity would happen. so, give me one example of how a license would help? people who would follow the rules and get the license are more than likely the type who don't need the reminder to be careful. 

in this case, it likely wasn't purposeful. No intent to harm or cause suffering or to be cruel. The legal system and prosecutors know that "







happens" and no charges will probably be pressed. Best laid plans and all that. 
It would, in the end, be a waste of resources to prosecute people for a tragic mistake. 

plus, I think that the reason the attitude you are picking up is "accidents happen" is that you are preaching to the choir. everyone here knows the dangers, the people involved knew the dangers, but people here also understand that even the best laid plans go wrong.

There are people out there that have NO idea that it's dangerous to leave a dog in a car.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

hmm looks like I should have just waited for pupresq to post


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Right back atcha!










But I do think both our posts highlight the problems here. It's not a question of "not winning the popularity vote" it's that it doesn't even make sense, wouldn't work, and is NOT the best way to save dog lives.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think, in cases like this, it's too easy to turn public opinion AGAINST your cause. people tend to view it as a "holier than thou" attitude and therefore tune out the message that you are trying to get across, Esp if they can see themselves in the same situation. It also makes them less likely to come forward for help in situations like this if they feel they could be prosecuted (or persecuted as the case may be)


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I totally agree!









Honestly, I think the most can be learned from this situation by people who relate to the owners, at least on the level that accidents can and do happen and think "wow! Yikes! Could that happen to me? What can I do to be extra extra careful so that nothing like that ever happens to my dogs?" 

It's identification not vilification that results in the education and therefore prevention.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowGoodness gracious. If we put half of the energy into going out and doing something to educate people about dogs in shelters or dogs in cars on hot days that we're putting into arguing over semantics we might be able to make a difference in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I shall second that and excuse myself from this thread. I am banging my head against a wall for no good reason and getting upset about some of the very self righteous comments here is not productive. So in order to not get personal, I think I will let this thread go.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqI totally agree!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i agree with this. part of my feeling has been that to get others to think "wow, that could happen to me", it does matter how Robin Starr and/or her husband present the situation to the public. the initial public statements made were presented in wording that made it seem like a "freak" accident and not a result of lack of communication and/or perhaps some lack of knowledge (by the husband) on the real dangers of cars and heat.

if they stress how they could have prevented this and where their missteps were made, then, yes, it will personalize it, especially in households where 2 or more people are routinely interacting with their dog(s).


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>And the scoreboard reads:

People = Win

Dogs = Lose

</span>


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)




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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I think it's very sad that you think any people won in this situation.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Betty101I think it's very sad that you think any people won in this situation.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Well, in this case and others just like it, the dogs lose. Dogs will continue to lose so long as complacent attitudes overshadow the seriousness of leaving pets in hot cars.

I think it's sad that some view being a conscientious and highly responsible pet owner as self-righteous and having an "above it all" attitude.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.








</span>


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogsI think it's sad that some view being a conscientious and highly responsible pet owner as self-righteous and having an "above it all" attitude.


Who said that?!?!? I have to agree with you on the


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogsI know where my kids and dogs are at, at all times.


I find that incredibly difficult to believe.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Lucina
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 3dogsI know where my kids and dogs are at, at all times.
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I can't help it if you don't believe it but the fact is, I do. Maybe it's been your experience not to meet up with many honest people. I don't know.









I live out in the country, way out in the sticks and my kids can't get anywhere without me or their dad. My children play in the yard and I can see them out of any of my windows. They are 11 and 7 years old. When I let my dogs outside, I can see where they are at all times b/c I'm with them. It's not too difficult to find my dogs in the house b/c, well, they tend to be at my feet if not trying to get right under them.









Other than that, I don't know what else to tell you.







</span>


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 3dogsI think it's sad that some view being a conscientious and highly responsible pet owner as self-righteous and having an "above it all" attitude.
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Guess you're going to need to read through the entire thread...</span>


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have been showing the pups to people in a pen in the front yard, partly because it is nice and shadey under the maples and partly because my grill is out there, and partly because the rest of the pack tends to carry on a bit if I am in the back yard. 

In a rush today, I decided to lure them from the pen in the back to the pen in the front with their dinner. I had noticed that they all stayed outside all day today (they can get in and out through the doggy door. So I opened the gate to far field and trapsed across with a puppy pan of food. I then opened the gate to the puppy pen, and then the four foot x-pen within that keeps them from slipping under the puppy pen's rounded gates -- their five week old heads can get through and get stuck. 

Jenna is cavorting happily around all of us helping not one bit. Leading the little sharks across far field and out to the front yard, I put the food in and counted the puppies in. Half of them I had to go and get two by two. 

After pulling out the lawn chairs and the radio and starting my charcoal for my grill. I sat and waited for my people to come. 

They did and we watched the pups til dark came up on us. She helped me carry the puppies into the house. I bathed Hunter and then talked to the lady while she held her puppy for a while. It was deep dark when she left. I dragged the rest of the stuff in by knowing where it was. 

I went to go and load pictures from my camera to my computer to my jump drive. About an hour later I was looking at the pictures and noticed the open gate. I had left far field open. In horror, I realized that most likely I left the kennel gate open and the x-pen open as well. 

I grabbed a flashlight and ran out there, wondering how I would ever find ten black puppies in the pitch dark. And it is unnaturally cold for this time of year too. 

The kennel gate WAS open, but the x-pen was closed. Jenna was right there. Her puppies were inside. I was fortunate. I could have been sick with grief and disgusted with myself. Things happen.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzerI have been showing the pups to people in a pen in the front yard, partly because it is nice and shadey under the maples and partly because my grill is out there, and partly because the rest of the pack tends to carry on a bit if I am in the back yard.
> 
> In a rush today, I decided to lure them from the pen in the back to the pen in the front with their dinner. I had noticed that they all stayed outside all day today (they can get in and out through the doggy door. So I opened the gate to far field and trapsed across with a puppy pan of food. I then opened the gate to the puppy pen, and then the four foot x-pen within that keeps them from slipping under the puppy pen's rounded gates -- their five week old heads can get through and get stuck.
> 
> ...


Yep.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: selzerI have been showing the pups to people in a pen in the front yard, partly because it is nice and shadey under the maples and partly because my grill is out there, and partly because the rest of the pack tends to carry on a bit if I am in the back yard.
> 
> In a rush today, I decided to lure them from the pen in the back to the pen in the front with their dinner. I had noticed that they all stayed outside all day today (they can get in and out through the doggy door. So I opened the gate to far field and trapsed across with a puppy pan of food. I then opened the gate to the puppy pen, and then the four foot x-pen within that keeps them from slipping under the puppy pen's rounded gates -- their five week old heads can get through and get stuck.
> 
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I offer a very large sigh to this post b/c it's apples/oranges compared to the SPCA situation. Allegedly, the husband was irresponsible. He put the dog in the back of the car and didn't tell his wife. This is the height of irresponsible pet ownership, IMO.

Why do people want to continue to defend a thoughtless act that led to a dog's death. To me, that's a real head scratcher.

An accident would've been if taking the dog to work was a novel idea. And, on a whim, they thought to take the dog to work. The lack of routine might have led to an accident where there was a breakdown in communication. It wasn't. Taking the dog to work was a routine for the couple. The act of being irresponsible is not an accident. It's irresponsbile. 

We can all have our opinions on this particular case. My position is to side with the poor dog. The humans failed to act responsibly. Further, no one seems to want to hold the CEO of the SPCA to a higher standard.</span>


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

It is such a sad situation and in one way yes an SPCA exec should be held to a higher standard then the average Joe because of their position. However, as someone whose stupidity/dh's stupidity/carelessness led to the death of a pet. Nobody can judge or exact the same punishment on these people worse than what they are probably doing to themselves. You don't care for and have live with you a deaf, blind dog unless you really love that dog - believe me, throw in canine dementia and I'm living with one, they take special needs and require much more care than sometimes with a busy lifestyle where two people have careers, it is hard to give.
It's a horrid tragedy, but out of all tragedy comes lessons. While an animal has died a horrid death, countless others can be saved if this story serves as a warning to anyone.

I remember three years ago my sister arriving to meet me at a parking lot, we were headed off to go shopping in a small village nearby, she left her dog literally the few minutes it took her to walk to where my car was sitting to figure out where I had gone (I was shopping in a store) and in that time frame, we're talking a moderate sized parking lot, she had a note from some do-gooder about - well it was nasty, the funny thing the car was in sight all the time, except when she was walking away, her dog had water, the windows were down and it was April - in Canada! And not a warm April where you can break out the shorts, we were in coats, not even jackets. The note upset my sister and I'd have broken whomever wrote it's hands (well not necessarily, but I would have called the cops for them touching my sister's car).

Accidnts happen. This is a very horrid accident. It is certainly no way for the dog to die, but it does serve a purpose in educating others and believe me as someone whose irresponsibility led to an animal's death - nobody can punish them more than they will be punishing themselves.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ozzymama Nobody can judge or exact the same punishment on these people worse than what they are probably doing to themselves. You don't care for and have live with you a deaf, blind dog unless you really love that dog - believe me, throw in canine dementia and I'm living with one, they take special needs and require much more care than sometimes with a busy lifestyle where two people have careers, it is hard to give.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Again, I beg to differ and find it mind boggling why I seem to be alone in these opinions on irresponsbile pet owners.

A busy lifestyle doesn't excuse the lack of responsibility. I am mondo busy. I have 2 children w/special needs and a gazillion other responsibilities. First and foremost, I wouldn't bring my dog on any trip (unless vet or some emergency and had no choice) if the temps are 70 or above, humidity is high and the sun is blazing the sky. And, most importantly, I wouildn't forget my dog - no way. I think for that to happen, for me personally, my faculties would have to be slipping.</span>



> Quote:It's a horrid tragedy, but out of all tragedy comes lessons. While an animal has died a horrid death, countless others can be saved if this story serves as a warning to anyone.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>There have been way too many stories like this one to be dismissed as a warning, IMO. (And, I need to insert IMO b/c I don't want anyone to feel personally attacked for having their opinion, although I may not agree with it).</span>



> Quote:I remember three years ago my sister arriving to meet me at a parking lot, we were headed off to go shopping in a small village nearby, she left her dog literally the few minutes it took her to walk to where my car was sitting to figure out where I had gone (I was shopping in a store) and in that time frame, we're talking a moderate sized parking lot, she had a note from some do-gooder about - well it was nasty, the funny thing the car was in sight all the time, except when she was walking away, her dog had water, the windows were down and it was April - in Canada! And not a warm April where you can break out the shorts, we were in coats, not even jackets. The note upset my sister and I'd have broken whomever wrote it's hands (well not necessarily, but I would have called the cops for them touching my sister's car).


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>And, your point is?</span>



> Quote:Accidnts happen. This is a very horrid accident. It is certainly no way for the dog to die, but it does serve a purpose in educating others and believe me as someone whose irresponsibility led to an animal's death - nobody can punish them more than they will be punishing themselves.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Yes. I agree accidents do happen. In this particular case, it was irresponsible. As for punishment, the laws are not firm enough in cases such as these. Anyone, therefore, could argue irresponsibility away with a slip of the mind lame excuse. Sorry, I stand firm on my opinion. Like a rock.</span>


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> 
> 
> ozzymama said:
> ...


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i feel like in this country (and i know some countries are even worse) that we need to hold people to higher standards of responsibility in regards to pet ownership. 

i do not find it a reasonable mistake to put your dog in a warm car and forget to tell your spouse immediately. additionally, i have seen some recent reports that this woman took the dog to work as many as 3-4 times per week. if this is true, than it would be amazing that she would not have checked her car. 

are we really going to believe that the husband putting the dog in the car wasnt a common occurence? i even think its very possible that she is the one who forgot to check the car that day and that the husband routinely puts the dog in there without telling her. i also believe one of them has done a good job of covering for the other.

loving your dogs doesnt make you responsible. doing the best you can to keep them safe makes you responsible. one, or both of these people, did much more thasn overlook a small detail. 

im sure they feel bad, and im sure they loved their dog. it doesnt make them responsible. 

can you imagine going to get a dog at a reputable rescue group, telling them _"well, i put my last dog in a car on a very warm day and forgot to tell my wife. she often takes him to work, so it didnt occur to me to tell her. it also didnt occur to her to check the car. he roasted to death. can i adopt a dog?"_

rescue worker: "no"
you: "why not. it was an honest mistake."
rescue worker: (stares at you in utter disbelief) 

the rescue group would not deem you responsible, would they? does that make them self righteous or holier than thou? maybe there are rescue groups that would overlook this, but none that i have ever dealt with would.

its not self righteous to expect two people to always know where their 16 yr old blind and deaf dog. it is not a minor detail to be overlooked. its not the same as having 6 dogs running around your house and yard, is it? you would still do your best to keep them safe, but there are reasonable physical and logistical limitations involved that would make mishaps possible.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

You two ever gonna let it go???????


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

What accident isn't the result of some type of irresponsible action? 

With all due respect, most of us who post on these boards aren't free from fault. Most of us recognize that we are humans, and like the vast majority of the human race we make mistakes, sometimes with horrible consequences. 

I guess someone who has attained perfection will never understand those of us who are imperfect, who have flaws, who make mistakes, who can sometimes feel compassion for others who also walk in imperfect shoes. 

Instead of getting upset about our imperfect views of a tragic accident, why not just accept the fact that you're dealing with people who have imperfect opinions about an imperfect world.

Stand like a rock if you wish, but keep in mind that a pile of sand was once a mighty mountain.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ArycrestWhat accident isn't the result of some type of irresponsible action?
> 
> With all due respect, most of us who post on these boards aren't free from fault.


neither am i, believe me. certainly we all take reasonable precautions to try to prevent accidents. that is all we can ask, i think. make the reasonable effort, and if an accident occurs, i can assure you i see no failings in that.

Kathy, yes, i will let it go.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

People call me to buy puppies. They tell me how their last dog died. 

I absolutely love to hear them say that they trained the dog to stay in the yard, and it never did it before, but that it ran out in front of the car and got killed in the road. 

Do I politely get off the phone at that point? No. 

My next question is how do they intend to keep this dog from getting hit by a car. 

If the answer is an electric fence, or to train it to stay in the yard, then I find a nice way to decline. 

If the answer is that they put up a solid fence and they intend to go out with the dog, well then the conversation may continue. 

People are amazing. They expect you to sell them a dog and tell you things like how they duct taped rotting meat to their dog's muzzle to keep her out of the trash. I mean really! Anyone with half a brain wouldn't tell you about how their last dog died if it happened that way. 

It would do no good to simply hang up on people when they tell you a horror story. They will just get mad and not learn anything, except not to mention that minor fact again. Much better to ask how they will avoid that in the future. Generally my mind is made up long before the conversation is over. People tend to dig themselves deeper into a hole than dig themselves out of one.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ozzymama Nobody can judge or exact the same punishment on these people worse than what they are probably doing to themselves. You don't care for and have live with you a deaf, blind dog unless you really love that dog - believe me, throw in canine dementia and I'm living with one, they take special needs and require much more care than sometimes with a busy lifestyle where two people have careers, it is hard to give.
> ...


Be careful, someday Karma may decide to teach you a little lesson in humility. Some mondo busy day, you, yes even you, might space something out and and ACCIDENT may happen.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ozzymama
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> ...


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: roxy84
> ...





My God! I know this must be an extremely frustrating subject, as being perfect must be so lonely. The sad fact is there are ALL kinds of tragic situations that unfortunately for the victims become learning experiences, I can guarantee you I love my dogs every bit as much as you do and consider myself a very responsible dog owner, heck I have horses ,which anyone who owns them can attest to the fact the minute they are born they are on a mission to commit suicide, the thing is, one day I locked some 6 week old puppies in a warm roomy comfortable horse stall as it was snowing and I wanted them safe and warm, there was a water tub in the stall but the puppies were too short to even remotely reach the top so the situation appeared safe, well, as accidents HAPPEN and the best laid plans often fail, who could have thought the puppies would drag a heavy horse blanket off the stall door drag it across near the water tub and the blanket become bunched up and tall enough for a few to fall in? I was shocked and so upset, I had a puppy in intensive care for 5 days brain dead do to this situation, believe me NO ONE felt worse than me and in fact the puppy survived and is one of my current beloveds, the point I am making is NO ONE is perfect and like the saying goes







HAPPENS, it doesn't make the person stupid, or irresponsible, you grieve, learn your lesson and go on with life, believe me no one is more thorough than me when I leave dogs/puppis locked in their kennels. It's called being human! I don't even want to count how many times I've driven off with my drinks or books on the roof of my car!


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: gsdsr#1
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I've grown very tired of this thread. Everyone is entitled to their point of view and opinion. Why do you wish me ill fate? That is extremely mean spirited, IMO.

I stand in defensive of innocent animals, make my case for them and only to have people hurl insults, attacking words, passing judgement on the level of responsibility, IMO, all pets owners should feel toward their pets and, yes, go the extra mile. Go the extra mile if it means tying a string around your finger if there might be a chance of forgeting a pet locked in a hot car. And, this position that I strongly feel is being condemned in this thread.

I will not change my opinion. IMO, the humans in this case were flat out wrong and highly irresponsible.

How terrible of any of you to wish only to see someone like me who feels so strongly in defense of dogs to fall flat on my face. Or wish some unfortunate harm come to my pets to prove your point. That in my opinion, is very low brain thinking.

I do not feel that way toward you. In fact, I wish you and your pets to have peace and be safe. IMO, the karma is far worse, to wish ill fate on any person who has not caused you any harm, on any level, in any possible way.

Namaste</span>


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Thank you for FINALLY being tired of this thread. 

I find it interesting that off all the people that have posted on this thread - long time dog owners, repsonsible dog owners- only 2 people have continued to beat the "holier than thou we never make mstakes or allow ACCIDENTS to happen" drum.

Maybe now this poor dog can RIP. 


"I don't even want to count how many times I've driven off with my drinks or books on the roof of my car! " Me too! I did it with my glasses too.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: KathyWYou two ever gonna let it go???????


I guess they want them to be subjected to a public stoning, or maybe even lethal injection, that will show them it doesn't pay to be human.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: KathyWThank you for FINALLY being tired of this thread.
> 
> I find it interesting that off all the people that have posted on this thread - long time dog owners, repsonsible dog owners- only 2 people have continued to beat the "holier than thou we never make mstakes or allow ACCIDENTS to happen" drum.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>You're sadly mistaken. I don't feel holier than whoever, or better than the next person. Simply, I refuse to give irresponsible pet owners a pass. There is no excuse, IMO for leaving a dog in a hot car. And, as long as people accept it's only human error that dogs die in hot cars, than my guess is, we can expect more of the same until something changes.</span>


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well...I guess until only God owns a dog then you can expect human error with them whether it's in a car, on a road, or in your kitchen.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: gsdsr#1
> ...


I did not wish you or your dogs harm. I am trying to say that even people who think they are on top of every thing, may someday make a mistake and an accident may happen. It's called Karma. You have been judgemental, totally unforgiving and holier than thou. I have probably been around longer than you and know ACCIDENTS HAPPEN EVEN TO TOTALLY ON THE BALL 24/7 TYPES. 

My "low brain" thinking is just my curse I guess. Your "high brow" attitude is yours. The humans is this case are HUMAN. What would you have done to them, in their grief? Public flogging, a prison sentence, what?


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: KathyW
> 
> I find it interesting that off all the people that have posted on this thread - long time dog owners, repsonsible dog owners- only 2 people have continued to beat the "holier than thou we never make mstakes or allow ACCIDENTS to happen" drum.
> 
> ...


never have i said i do not make mistakes. i just stated, in response to the comment "none of us is perfect":

"_neither am i, believe me. certainly we all take reasonable precautions to try to prevent accidents. that is all we can ask, i think. make the reasonable effort, and if an accident occurs, i can assure you i see no failings in that._"

i accept that people make mistakes. ive made plenty, but i always make a reasonable effort to keep my dog safe, as i think everyone here does. my only point all along has been that one or both of these people, in this case, and in this case only, did not take reasonable precaution to take care of their dog.

people in this thread have taken it too far to then insinuate that because i condemn this negligent behavior IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE that i condemn anyone who makes a mistake in caring for their dog. 

i am not generally an unforgiving person and i work my







off in our county to advocate for neglected dogs, but i am clear on the difference between lack of effort and human error.


someone stated: "<u>NO ONE is perfect and like the saying goes







HAPPENS, it doesn't make the person stupid, or irresponsible,</u>" 

this comment seems to be the prevailing attitude. it is dangerous and allows people to actually be irresponsible and/or stupid, and just say. oh well,







happens.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

..and i really would like to let it go, but it is ironic that everyone accusing others on passing judgement are having no problem doing just that to the people with the minority view.

-i left my loaded gun on the bed and my nephew shot himself: "oh well,







happens"

-i ran that stop sign and hit someone: "oh well,







happens"

-i forgot to tell anyone i left my dog in a hot car: "oh well,







happens"

would the first two not be considered stupid and/or irresponsible? well, that is how i feel about the third thing.


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: KathyW
> ...



<span style='font-size: 11pt'>I keep wanting to let this go but I must say, I understand completely as I've been trying to express the same thing all along.

I've asked mods to close the thread as it's going way too far off the deep end.

Thank you for being a defender of animal rights. I applaud you in that. I think this has been the message all along. I think no matter how many times it's said, restated or explained. it's taken in a direction that wasn't intended, IMO. </span>


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: roxy84..and i really would like to let it go, but it is ironic that everyone accusing others on passing judgement are having no problem doing just that to the people with the minority view.
> 
> -i left my loaded gun on the bed and my nephew shot himself: "oh well,
> 
> ...


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Honestly, I couldn't have said it better. People must have the ears and eyes to hear/see and understand the intended message. Not get wrapped up in some kind of persecution complex. Or thinking there's some angle to make people feel less.

If people are not held responsible for their actions, then we might as well live in a lawless society. Thank goodness for the defender of those who are lesser and weaker among us.

The message all along has been it's not OK to casually dismiss leaving a dog to die in a hot car as a minor accident due to forgetfullness or a breakdown in communication between people in charge of the welfare of their pets.

The only loneliness I feel in this thread is the majority of those who are just not seeing the big picture. That is a very lonely place to be, I must admit.</span>


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## sunfluer (May 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Jax08Well...I guess until only God owns a dog then you can expect human error with them whether it's in a car, on a road, or in your kitchen.


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>No. No, not so. Just don't put the dog in the car on a hot day in the first place. Exercise sound judgement. If it's too hot for a human, it's going to be way too hot for a dog.</span>


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: 3dogs
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Lucina
> ...


I appreciate that you're a responsible mother and dog owner- I really do. I try really hard at that as well. But please don't think that an accident cannot happen because you've covered all the bases; there's no such thing. When it does DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP OVER IT. That is my worry for you is that you will not see an accident as anything but your fault when in fact it's nothing more than bad luck.
Working 20 years in a radiology department I've seen it all- and the worst part is the guilt of the parents who feel like they should have been able to prevent what happened even if there was no way it could have been predicted.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Methinks some people protest much to much. 

Asking the mods to close a thread and then posting several posts that people will not be able to answer seems a bit mean spirited in my opinion, not that I want to put forth any insults, because some people on this site can certainly dish it out, but are less than average at being able to take it. 

What ALL of us need to realize is that just because a person is rich, famous, works for a shelter or rescue, is a leader of an animal oriented organization, is a police officer, is the president of the united states, the fact is they are still only human beings. 

No one wants to see a foreseeable accident happen and dogs or people suffer. But it WILL happen again and again, because human beings are not perfect. 

Being incensed at people who allow their animals to wallow in filth, starve them, beat them, cut off parts of them, hang them, let their collars dig into their skin and wounds fester, that I can see and am right there with you. 

But people who have been caring for a 16 year old dog, who is blind and deaf, and make an error. I don't care what they do for a living or who they are, I am not going to beat them up about it.


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