# New and need help/ what about these breeders?



## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

Hey I've wanted a GSD for some time and am currently looking but I need help. I've done reasearch to watch for hip displayshia and DM.

I'm looking for a family dog/companion. Not looking for sport or show. I just want a good smart dog that I can train and have as a companion. The problem I have is price. I don't want to "overpay" for a dog. So I'm trying to find how much a good dog for my needs are.

Can I ask you all for your help please. What do you think of these breeders I found near by. Good or bad? Why? Some are as low as $600, is that reasonable for the dog or overpriced on a bad dog?

Idealy I would love to stay in the $600 range.
W Litter - Schne Stadt German Shepherds

Rheinhardt Kennels
Schmidmuhlen German Shepherds


Drachefeld :: Puppies


I'm in lexington ky and would be willing to drive to get right dog. Any recommendations?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

$600 is really low for a well-bred, healthy GSD from a good breeder unless you know a breeder personally or are getting a "deal" based on some cosmetic fault that would not affect the health or soundness of the dog (long coat for example).


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## slumdawg11b (Apr 4, 2013)

Man, 600 bucks. I must have gotten a great deal. Sasha was only 350 and she is a dream. Perfect for me since I just got out of the army and moved to an area where I didn't know many people. The bond is irreplaceable, even at 13 weeks. 

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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I am not familiar with these breeders. Where I live, breeders charge between $1200-$2000 for GSD's.

If this is too much, there might be GSD rescues in your area or the animal shelters.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Workingline pups, as are at least two of the breeders you listed, should run about $1500. Show lines run about $3000.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I think you'll do better choosing the temperament, etc., of the dog you want, price _those_ dogs, and then adjust your budget accordingly, even if that means you have to save up for a while longer before you make the investment.

I'm a rescuer, and I promise you it can cost a whole lot more in the long run if you purchase a dog that has behavioral/health issues related to genetics.

$600 isn't much toward a very well bred dog, and no matter whether you want a pet or a dog you can compete with, you'll still want the best breeding you can afford. Solid nerves, for example, are super important, even for pet dogs. I think it can take a little sting out of the sticker shock if you remember that you are making an investment that will hopefully bring you 14-17 years worth of companionship 

Sorry have no input on the breeders you mention...just my "in general" two cents...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Can you describe specifically what you're looking for? Describe your life style and activity level. I would also recommend looking into the different lines a bit and see what you like and what fits the best. The breeders you listed are not the same lines. Also $600 is very low. I would plan on at least $1100. Would you be willing to have a puppy shipped? There are some fantastic breeders of all lines on this forum. Once we can figure out a little bit more of what you're looking for we might be able to point you in the right direction.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Dokie said:


> W Litter - Schne Stadt German Shepherds


 From all what you listed I would look closer at this kennel. Here's a link to the discussion on the planned litter.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/260490-what-do-you-think-about-litter.html


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

600 $ is very low for a well bred dog.

The breeders you listed the top one seems like the best. However not a lot of titles are on the dogs. Not necessarily a negative, however big black sable dddr dogs are the "in" thing right now, so I would want to avoid a breeder just throwing two ddr dogs together to get giant dark pups.

The next one claims European lineage on their dogs. Never buy from a breeding just because of what lines it comes from, unless the breeder knows what theyre doing and expecting a certain outcome from the pairing. Just looking at those dogs they dont look like working lines or german show lines. They look like a lot of american show line.

The last breeder is german show lines. So once again a very different type. And again breeding dogs just because mom and dad may of had tites.

Top breeder is the only one I would consider. And unless you know someone or get a deal, I would be cautious of a 600 $ price tag

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

good litter , good socialization Idealy I would love to stay in the $600 range.
W Litter - Schne Stadt German Shepherds

have many of those lines myself -- health tests done.

I like the sire , I like his mothers (Wendy) other progeny --- great herding dog V, ED - NORMAL Hetty von den Schwedenschanzen

the pups are shown with an enriched environment, they are fed well, raw goats milk, the dogs have x rays and DM . 

did not even look at the others


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

carmspack said:


> good litter , good socialization Idealy I would love to stay in the $600 range.
> W Litter - Schne Stadt German Shepherds
> 
> have many of those lines myself -- health tests done.
> ...


These are $1100 dogs: Planned Litters - Schne Stadt German Shepherds. Was the OP aware, and maybe willing, but would prefer not to pay as much, I wonder?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Don't forget about adoption! It's a relatively inexpensive way to get a great dog and there are dogs of all ages needing homes.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Drache Feld is a top show kennel and very well known. Lots of his pups are placed in pet homes and you have the benefit of being very close to him. I know quite a few dogs from this kennel and you should be fine with one of his pups.

Lee


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

JackandMattie said:


> These are $1100 dogs: Planned Litters - Schne Stadt German Shepherds. Was the OP aware, and maybe willing, but would prefer not to pay as much, I wonder?


I was aware that it currently out of my price range, I was trying to get an idea of what is a good breeder. I was looking for an intelligent companion. I kind of dont want to worry about getting a dog with anxiety, fear and what not. 

I'm fairly active, I don't live in a big place but right next door to a big park. I do cardio 5x a week in the form of interval sprints at th park. I go camping when I have the time, occasionally hear the coyotes around the camp would be nice to have a "look out" 

I work 20-30 hours a week so I have the free time to be with the pup.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

call Drache Feld, go visit, talk money AFTER you get there....his pet prices vary depending on the puppy 

He is a "good" breeder and you never know....

Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

You sound like an excellent owner -- find yourself a good breeder . If Wolfstraum likes Drache Feld I would trust her judgement. The other kennel Schone Stadt , I know the genetics well and would have a look at them as well.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

IF you can't afford more than $600 now, wait a bit and save up as much as you can. 
Especially if the litter is in the planning or baking stage, save while the litter is in the oven, save while the litter is growing up and weaning...before you know it~you have the $ that the breeder is charging. And remember the cost of the pup is the minimal cost compared to vetting, training and gear you'll need. 
Carmen is another breeder to investigate! I'd probably begin with her. Lee as well, but I don't think Lee has any litters planned soon?


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Dokie said:


> I was aware that it currently out of my price range, I was trying to get an idea of what is a good breeder. I was looking for an intelligent companion. I kind of dont want to worry about getting a dog with anxiety, fear and what not.
> 
> I'm fairly active, I don't live in a big place but right next door to a big park. I do cardio 5x a week in the form of interval sprints at th park. I go camping when I have the time, occasionally hear the coyotes around the camp would be nice to have a "look out"
> 
> I work 20-30 hours a week so I have the free time to be with the pup.


Awesome!! You don't need a big place. Dogs don't exercise themselves, lol. I mean mine have never said l'm gonna go run laps  you gotta direct it. 

You just need to spend time out and about and *together* with your GSD. Sounds like you have the time and energy for that ???


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> call Drache Feld, go visit, talk money AFTER you get there....his pet prices vary depending on the puppy
> 
> He is a "good" breeder and you never know....
> 
> Lee


good thinking and thanks for the recommendation. In the next few months is when ill start making moves to visit a few places. Im the type of guy who tried to do as much research as i can before investing in anything.


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

Star View Kennel - PUPPIES/LITTERS DUE

i found another place, based on what you guys know what are your impressions?

they seem to give a 2 year guarantee..the contract seems a little weird though, "all pups will be named by them" is that common?


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Dokie said:


> Star View Kennel - PUPPIES/LITTERS DUE
> 
> i found another place, based on what you guys know what are your impressions?
> 
> they seem to give a 2 year guarantee..the contract seems a little weird though, "all pups will be named by them" is that common?


I would question the terms of the guarantee. The contract says that "_Congenital defects are covered, however problems resulting from over exercise, improper nutrition, neglect, etc. are not covered_". How do you prove that none of the voiding conditions aren't a factor? It is so very, very vague. What is covered under the "etc."? 

Also, they say the bitch, "Colette", "WILL BE STARTING HER SHOW CAREER SOON, AND WILL BE ADDED TO OUR BREEDING PROGRAM ONCE SHE PASSES HER HEALTH TESTING". She was whelped on 1/16/12 according to PDB, which makes her 15 months old when they bred her on 4/13/13. No explanation about what "health testing" they did on her. 

And that part about voiding the entire contract if you don't use their kennel name? And they will sue you AND repossess the dog in question? 

Keep looking.
Sheilah


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

sit said:


> I would question the terms of the guarantee. The contract says that "_Congenital defects are covered, however problems resulting from over exercise, improper nutrition, neglect, etc. are not covered_". How do you prove that none of the voiding conditions aren't a factor? It is so very, very vague. What is covered under the "etc."?
> 
> Also, they say the bitch, "Colette", "WILL BE STARTING HER SHOW CAREER SOON, AND WILL BE ADDED TO OUR BREEDING PROGRAM ONCE SHE PASSES HER HEALTH TESTING". She was whelped on 1/16/12 according to PDB, which makes her 15 months old when they bred her on 4/13/13. No explanation about what "health testing" they did on her.
> 
> ...


Yeah I was thinking that part was a little crazy. I'm really leaning towards these. 

Planned Litters - Schne Stadt German Shepherds 

And 

Detached feld that was recommended

I'm going to keep looking though.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

You have two completely different litters that you are looking at....
DDR/West/Czech and Showlines.

Since you would be an active pet home, I would recommend Charlie at Drache Feld. As I understand, if he's got something for a pet home, he'll work with you on price... and he'll be around since he's close to help you with anything down the road.

Also, remember that as a puppy, you will not be taking them running with you, until they are at least a year old or older.... you have to give them time to grow without putting a lot of pounding stress on their joints. Exercise and walking yes, but don't over due it or you could be causing problems later....

Goodluck!!!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Before you look at any more kennels, I'd start saving more money (or looking at rescues) and REALLY read the following site:

click this ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html

and http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

mnm said:


> You have two completely different litters that you are looking at....
> DDR/West/Czech and Showlines.
> 
> Since you would be an active pet home, I would recommend Charlie at Drache Feld. As I understand, if he's got something for a pet home, he'll work with you on price... and he'll be around since he's close to help you with anything down the road.
> ...


After I settle into my new home in a month or two ill give drachefeld the first visit.


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Before you look at any more kennels, I'd start saving more money (or looking at rescues) and REALLY read the following site:
> 
> click this ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html
> 
> and http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html



I saw one of the articles yesterday, ill read the other one today. 
Thanks!


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Here is an amazing breeder. 

Crooked Creek Ranch

and her facebook you can see all the amazing pictures she photos of her daughter and all their dogs and puppies. Defiantly check them out!!!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Crooked-Creek-Ranch/356651778523?ref=ts&fref=ts


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

Few things overall have me scratching my head a bit.

1. When looking at a dog. If parents have history of good elbows and health, isn't the dog good enough as a pet if socialized and all that?

2. Temperment, alot of people talk about tenperment and nerves. BUT isn't sit of that learned behavior? I mean if a dog goes with you everywhere and is exposed to the sideline of soccer games or walking through downtown at night. Isn't that something the dog would be used to? I saw a poll on here yesterday asking if their dog was a nervous dog and almost half voted "yes". Is that because the half that voted "no" spent $1300+ on their dogs?

3. Cost, alot of sites telling you what makes a good breeder and what not usually say that a good breeder isn't in it for the money. Yet all the "good" breeders dogs cost $2000+. Personally I don't care if some one does make money off of breeding as long as they are being responsible about it and not selling sickly dogs or have the dogs in bad conditions.


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## curedba (Mar 31, 2013)

$600 seems a little low I would be weary of that I didn't pay a ridiculous amount for my pup but seems like an average price I paid $1500 for mine and he is working line x showline


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## Dokie (May 13, 2013)

Few things overall have me scratching my head a bit.

1. When looking at a dog. If parents have history of good elbows and health, isn't the dog good enough as a pet if socialized and all that?

2. Temperment, alot of people talk about tenperment and nerves. BUT isn't sit of that learned behavior? I understand that some dogs are genetically "cut out" for protection and police work. I mean if a dog goes with you everywhere and is exposed to the sideline of soccer games or walking through downtown at night. Isn't that something the dog would be used to? I saw a poll on here yesterday asking if their dog was a nervous dog and almost half voted "yes". Is that because the half that voted "no" spent $1300+ on their dogs?

3. Cost, alot of sites telling you what makes a good breeder and what not usually say that a good breeder isn't in it for the money. Yet all the "good" breeders dogs cost $2000+. Personally I don't care if some one does make money off of breeding as long as they are being responsible about it and not selling sickly dogs or have the dogs in bad conditions.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

My friend I'm going to give you a few words of advice. I came by this knowledge the hard way not the easy way and if you want to save some heart ache or difficulty down the road I suggest you give it serious consideration. In terms of temperament this is not something that can be taught especially when it comes to German shepherds. A dog os born with sound nerves or he isnt. Yes socialization and exposure can help, but they can never mask what the dog is born with. If you are looking for a reliable trustworthy family pet that you can trust with your children and family members, that you can take places and do things with you will not compromise on nerves. I cannot tell you how many German shepherds with nerve issues that develop fear biting and other behaviors that make them liabilities to live with, lawsuits waiting to happen and a general difficulty fpr their families. If you are new to German Shepherds and not an experienced dog person I would definitely recommend that you do not compromise on temperament because believe me you will regret it. My advice is to buy from a breeder that will stand behind what they sell you, and that will help you with any issues that arise. And in the worst case scenario will take back or replace a dog with serious health or temperment issues. 
Five or six hundred more dollars now can save you thousands down the road and a lot of heartache. I wish you luck in your search.


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## keiko (Dec 4, 2011)

If your budget maxes out at $600, then you should reconsider owning a GSD or a dog for that matter. For your sake and the dog's.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

Dokie said:


> Few things overall have me scratching my head a bit.
> 
> 1. When looking at a dog. If parents have history of good elbows and health, isn't the dog good enough as a pet if socialized and all that?
> 
> ...


1. Seems you are mixing health and temperament in this question. As to health, hip and elbow dysplasia are two of the more common serious inherited health issues that the GSD breed can have so at the minimum both parents should have been tested for hip and elbows at OFA or Pennhip-two national organizations that read and evaluate dog x-rays. Don't rely solely on the say so of a breeder's vet. As to temperament, socialization does help a lot in getting a good pet temperament but see below......

2. Animals' personalities (including humans) is a product of nature and nurture. Nature is the genetic makeup a dog given to it by its parents and ancestors, that makes it predisposed to certain behaviors depending on the nurture and the environment/situation. Nurture is the upbringing of a dog that includes how it was raised by its mother and treated by its siblings, how it was raised and socialized by its owners and by training. A dog's temperament is a product of nature and nurture. A dog's behavior is a product of it's temperament, the environment and the specific situation. 
The environment includes its owners and the owners' temperaments and personalities. The situation includes the owners' feelings at the moment since dogs, and most especially GSDs are excellent at tuning in to their owner's feelings. 
Nerves is a subset of a dog's temperament that refers to how the dog reacts to startling and stressful stimuli. There are many stimuli that a dog may find stressful that a person may not. A dog's behavior or reaction to stressful stimuli depends on its nerves. It's reaction can be indifference, tolerance, avoidance or aggression.
Socialization, sensitization (getting a dog used to specific stimulus), and training (desired behavior) can modify a dog's behavior but their effects can be limited by the dog's genetic temperament and nerves. 
GSDs can be prone to 'nervousness' because it is a breed that is designed to be alert. It is also a breed that is by genetic origin and design has aggression.

Going to a reputable breeder that is knowledgeable about genetics, temperament, nerves, aggression, behavior, upbringing and training increases your chances of getting a puppy with desirable and trainable temperament, nerves and behavior. It is no guarantee as nothing in nature is but it is a minimization of risk. All of that costs money.

3. Many good breeder's dogs cost from $1,000 to 3,000 so your $2,000 estimate is 100% higher than what is available. Do more research.
I agree with your last sentence.


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