# Personality change - reversible?



## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

My husband and I adopted our dog, Jeffrey from a humane society. We could later tell that he was abused... Fear of certain objects, aggression toward dark haired men, things like that. We had been very careful when introducing him to people so that he'd feel comfortable. Recently we had to go to CA (we live in CT) for a funeral. We left him with the dog sitter that he knows and loves (Well, loved) When she got there, he was very aggressive and bit her pretty good. So we had to have someone else come over. He was very aggressive with her as well, but did not bite her. He has been getting worse i.e., while on a walk he non aggressively bit a passer by, or while being pet he just decided to bite the petter. It has gotten so bad that I clearly cannot have people over and I can't go home to California because he will not get along with anyone. I called a trainer that had been a K9 cop for I believe 19 years and now has his own kennel. He said that he now has it in his mentality that biting is okay and he will continue to do so. Him biting people he knows is proof that he is having personality changes and he will eventually go after me and my husband. He said that training will not help and although it's awful, there is nothing he can do. I am questioning if others have found this to be true? Is there a chance I can reverse this? If so, how do I do it when I really don't feel comfortable bringing him around people knowing that he will bite them.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

What are the K9 cops training credentials other than being a K9 cop?

Could you get Jeffrey to a place where he can be happy and lead a good life? Possibbly. But, it will take time, effort and patience from your husband and yourself. 

How old is Jeffrey? How long have you had him? Had he been checked out medically (thyroid)?

First, decide if you are committed to having Jeffrey as a companion and are willing to work on correcting the situation you are in. 

Second, get him a good, properly fitted basket muzzle to keep himself and others safe when on walks or when they come into your home. And work on desensitizing him to the muzzle so that it is a good thing before putting it on him in stressful situations. http://leerburg.com/muzzleselection.htm

Third, contact a good behaviorist that has experience rehabbing dogs like Jeffrey. If you go to your User CP and put in your general location, maybe some people can recommend someone to you.


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

Jeffrey is about 2 years old. We got him last June. The last he was checked out was with them. I had taken him to an emergency vet shortly after getting him and he tried to attack him, so I have been to afraid to take him in again. So no, I haven't checked him out recently . We are committed, but my husband and I are pregnant, we fear how he will respond to a baby around. I love him to pieces, but my priority has to be my baby's safety.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Being pregnant changes things. Do you have much time to work on things before the baby comes? Has he ever been around kids?

Can you (will you) get a behaviorist in to evaluate his behavior and help you set up a plan?


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

The dog was probably turned in for that reason, the originals owners did not have the guts to euthanize the dog and most likely to get rid of the dog didn't say he had a biting issue.


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

Yes, I am currently looking for a behaviorist. 

As far as the biting being the reason he was turned in... Those owners caused it by abusing him, so I am not surprised.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

JeffBuddy said:


> As far as the biting being the reason he was turned in... Those owners caused it by abusing him, so I am not surprised.


I am sorry that he was abused - he most certainly deserves better.  
However if after a full year of being in a good home where he is treated well he still acts agressive and bites without provocation, the issue has more to do with his temperament than with the past abuse. Dogs that have been abused but have a good solid and reliable temperament will bounce back from the abuse and learn to trust. Dogs that never bounce back and only get worse despite a change in their environment for the better have something fundementally wrong with them that is going to take lots of effort to fix, if it is fixable. 
I would follow the advice of GSDRaven, and consider the input of the behaviourist you will be seeing. I do hope I am wrong in my thoughts and feelings on your dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sounds like a pretty dangerous dog -- sadly you can't reabilitate all of them. He may have some medical issue , he may even have a brain tumour -- . You have to do something drastic soon -- you do not be in a position where you are stressed and exposed to high financial risk , law suit, or physical injury for yourself or baby .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

JeffBuddy said:


> My husband and I adopted our dog, Jeffrey from a humane society. We could later tell that he was abused... Fear of certain objects, aggression toward dark haired men, things like that. We had been very careful when introducing him to people so that he'd feel comfortable. Recently we had to go to CA (we live in CT) for a funeral. We left him with the dog sitter that he knows and loves (Well, loved) When she got there, he was very aggressive and bit her pretty good. So we had to have someone else come over. He was very aggressive with her as well, but did not bite her. He has been getting worse i.e., while on a walk he non aggressively bit a passer by, or while being pet he just decided to bite the petter. It has gotten so bad that I clearly cannot have people over and I can't go home to California because he will not get along with anyone. I called a trainer that had been a K9 cop for I believe 19 years and now has his own kennel. He said that he now has it in his mentality that biting is okay and he will continue to do so. Him biting people he knows is proof that he is having personality changes and he will eventually go after me and my husband. He said that training will not help and although it's awful, there is nothing he can do. I am questioning if others have found this to be true? Is there a chance I can reverse this? If so, how do I do it when I really don't feel comfortable bringing him around people knowing that he will bite them.


I want to first point out a couple of things you mentioned in the above story that I have some further questions about. I am just trying to better understand the situation and how to direct you...

"We had been very careful when introducing him to people so that he'd feel comfortable."
This statement about introduction to other people. How are you careful in the introductions? If I were to knock on your door, how would the situation play out from there....

Who is in charge? You or the dog?

"while on a walk he non aggressively bit a passer by, or while being pet he just decided to bite the petter. "
When you say non-aggressively bit a passer byer, What triggered the attack? Did the pedestrian touch him, was he barking, growling prior to the attack/bite? Were there warning signs at any point that he was going to bite someone?


"It has gotten so bad that I clearly cannot have people over "
This is the sentence that scares me. He is now running your home. He decides if people come over or not based on his reactions. So he reacts poorly to everyone so no one will come into his home and upset his day. Your now allowing him to make the descisions if people are allowed into your home. 

It is YOUR home and he is privileged to live in it and make it his home as well. Do you have a crate? 
I am not telling you to throw him in the crate in this mental state but encourage daily usage of the crate as a safe place to relax and chew a bone each day and while people are over the house he can go in and relax. 

As for the K9 cop comments, I feel like IMO he has no idea what he is talking about. 

Seek out a trainer who can handle a dominant fear aggressive dog (what it sounds like to me). 

They are all fixable, with time, patience, and work. They live in the present and focus on "you have a cookie in your hand" at that time not "oh I was beat and neglected for a year...woes me"

Ask yourself these questions....
1. Do I want to spend the money (upwards of $300-$1000) to find a good trainer who I can commit to working with 1-2 time a week?
2. Do I have the time to work on training at home every day. Simple things like making him work for his food, treats, attention, etc?
3. Am I willing to let what he has done in the past go so we can move forward and focus on the future better dog he will become with training and better pet owner education?

If you answered No to any of these questions I would personally try and either find a home where someone is willing to rehab him or put him down.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

PS Also get him check out medically first, I agree with the other posters, it could be something medically that changed or as one said his temperament could just be poor. A good trainer would be able to tell you within a couple of visits. Good luck!!! It's a sad thing.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

You've had your boy for nearly a year. Can you tell us more of what his home life has been like? There could be folks that can learn from your thread. The more information you can provide, the better those who are very experianced with rescues, can offer advice.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

something is going on when the pet sitter which you said the dog knew and loved , was seriously bitten up --- that indicates a change of character which you underline in your thread title "personality change". 
Carmen


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

Oh goodness, as I write this he is sitting there with the sweetest face. 

Suzzy,
If you were to knock on my door, he and the puppy would bark. I would then put them both upstairs where he can't get out. If I didn't do that and I let you in, he would bite you. 

With the passer by, it was just how I said it. Me, my husband, mom, Jeffrey, and our other puppy were walking one direction, and a couple was walking the other. We didn't stop, the stranger paid no attention to him, Jeffrey didn't bark, growl, or seem interested. He just reached out, bit, and kept walking. We had to stop to make sure the man was okay. 

He does have a crate and he loved it, but it was never our intention to use it forever. He is house trained and doesn't chew on things. He and the puppy are kept on the first floor while we are gone. While people are over, we allow him to have part of the second floor and all of the 3rd floor to himself and set up barricades so that we can entertain on the other part of the 2nd floor. He sometimes cries about it, but usually just lays there calm as can be. We had a man over and he went to sit by the gate calmly, he put his hand on the gate and Jeffrey did nothing. He took his hand off and remained by the gate and a few seconds later he started barking and snarling at him. 

I am game to take him to see a vet, but what do I do to keep him from attacking other people, vets, nurses, or animals while in there? My husband can't go with me so we have to rely on my strength to hold him back... None of you know me so just take me word that I am weak! 

His home life is spoiled. He and the puppy have tons of toys and love trips to Petco (yes, he is fine there, but we don't let people pet him). He goes on leash walks with the puppy and then they are let off on a private field where no one is around. They run around there until their hearts content, go home and sleep. We used to have no problem getting him to obey until we got the puppy... Now we use the squirt bottle technique to re-teach the word "no". My husband is in the military so his time at home always fluctuates. I am home all day with them. They get lots of love but still have boundaries (i.e.' places they are not allowed in the house, things they can't chew on, etc.) He is very loving and cuddly with us and adores the puppy. Both my mom and sister have visited this year and he loved them both even though he had never before met them. 

He has recently decided he doesn't remember how to be potty trained and pees and poos in the same spot every time I leave. I have solved that problem by giving him treats for not having an accident and by keeping the two dogs on the first floor which is all tile.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you still have to see that the dog is not predictable. If you have someone sitting on opposite sides of a household barrier gate , hand on gate and the dog does nothing , yet moments later snarls and growls --- that is just telling you that the dog can not be trusted , you can not let your guard down , you may trust him and one second later regret it. 
Carmen
httpp://www.carmspack.com


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

JeffBuddy said:


> I am game to take him to see a vet, but what do I do to keep him from attacking other people, vets, nurses, or animals while in there? My husband can't go with me so we have to rely on my strength to hold him back... None of you know me so just take me word that I am weak!


Muzzle. You need to research which thyroid panel needs to be run to rule out a medical issue. The link below should help you with that.



JeffBuddy said:


> His home life is spoiled.


This needs to stop. You need to take back control. Here's a good resource on the NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) program. It is a good way to assertive your calm, fair and consistent leadership over your dogs.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm



JeffBuddy said:


> He has recently decided he doesn't remember how to be potty trained and pees and poos in the same spot every time I leave. I have solved that problem by giving him treats for not having an accident and by keeping the two dogs on the first floor which is all tile.


This could indicate a medical problem as well. Or an issue with bringing in the puppy.

This website might also be of some interest to you. Getting Help for Dog Aggression | k9aggression.com

This is going to be a personal decision that you should make with the help of your vet and a behaviorist that can evaluate the dog's temperament. We can't see the dog or what he is doing in order to tell you that he can be helped. We can point you in the right direction of resources that can help you with your decision though.

I know this isn't an easy situation and just know we are here to support you no matter what you decide. Best of Luck!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It does sound like he has some medical issues - whether they are with the behavior or apart...

Tufts Animal Behavior Clinic : Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine

Has something called Pet Fax where you can get consultation with the behaviorists at Tuft's. I would use this if needed. 

I missed this - was he like this before you got the puppy?


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

He was fine before the puppy, and fine after the puppy. It seems that when she left and we left shortly after he turned. Yes, before we left he did the non aggressive bites like the the passer by, but nothing as aggressive as he started being once we left. Any time I took the puppy and not him (like to get her shots) is when he'd start pottying in the house. If we left her, he was fine. Now it's just any time I leave him to free roam the house. I am currently emailing back and forth with the humane society. He is going to suggest trainers and behaviorists. I will look into the links posted for things like muzzles and a vet suggested getting a sedative before bringing him in. I would hate for this to be medical... But then again, I would hate for him to be anything but happy. My next steps are the behaviorist and the vet.


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

This is a photo of the babies. Jeffrey is on the left. He is a Shepherd/Retriever. They are really both such sweethearts.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Do not give him ACE. 

I am confused - sorry - on the we left, she left? 


> It seems that when she left and we left shortly after he turned.


ETA - is that his puppy - they look so much alike!

He does not look like a shepherd/retriever. Maybe Anatolian Shepherd and something but....hmmm...


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

I think they both have a lot in them and that is just how they decided to label him. No, she is not his puppy. We chose her because they look so much alike. By the she left then we left comment I was referring to how Mallary was taken by a dog sitter the night before we flew out. So Mallary was with another family while Jeffrey was alone.

ACE?

I had never heard of an Anatolian Shepherd. I just googled it, that is totally Jeffrey!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Acepromazine is a common sedative that can have the opposite effect - it can ramp up aggression so not a good thing to give a dog who has that problem. 

I have a couple of sets of "twin" dogs who look SO much alike. People must think I am breeding poor tempered, weird health issues animals. 

I don't know the breed - I think though that they are guard-y types?

SOUNDS like it is possible that this weak nerved, possibly abused dog (and I say that with love because it describes a couple of mine) draws a lot of confidence and support from this little pup and is deeply bonded to her and possibly confusedly protective of her. 

In addition to other things - I would recommend - woowoo - an animal communicator. There's one in NH that does consults via email.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I HIGHLY recommend Marta here Dog Training Obedience Classes in Cheshire Connecticut. She knows her stuff, knows dogs.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Wow the financial issues this dog will cost his owner eventually will be horrid. For a dog to BITE a person walking on a public street for no reason, or any reason is a financial timebomb. If this continues someone will sue you when he bites, especially knowing that you have a vicious dog and keep taking it to public places like Petco? What are you thinking? The dog bites someone simply because they walked by you on the sidewalk and you take this same dog to Petco? When will you decide to no longer take him to Petco? When he bites a child's face off because they walked by you? When he attacks a person and does damage because of no other reason than he wanted to bite? 
I am sorry, but it sounds to me like this dog is way beyond your capabilities, he runs the house, he runs your life, he bites when he wants to, he bites people he has "known and likes". I am surprised the dog sitter has not sued you. I am surprised you even have house insurance with a biting dog.
Here we go again, it seems its okay for dogs to bite and everyone makes excuses for him and keeps the cycle going. Get a trainer, get a behaviourist, get the vet to give him tranquilizers. For hecks sakes, NOT all dogs can be saved and this dog is a ticking timebomb, has already bitten numerous times, including the owner, people walking on the street, whenever he feels like it. Training by someone who won't even use a crate, gives the dog the freedom of the house, is not going to help this dog. And she has posted on a public forum about his vicious tendencies. 
I pity the nice family who is walking in Petco and the dog attacks and mauls their child just because this owner takes a vicious dog into a public place KNOWING the dog bites all the time and is in fact getting worse. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING???


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

Wyoming Grandma,
I am not the idiot you think I am. If you would have actually read my posts like the others, you would have seen that he is confined to the first floor of the house while we are out. If you're assuming you know how much space that is, you don't. If you looked at another post of mine you would see that we do in fact have a crate and he is crate trained. As far as Petco, someone asked what his life is like... Petco is a place he went before biting people. I figured you could use your deductive reasoning and figure out that I wouldn't continue to bring him there. Obviously, if I have stopped bringing people into my home I would stop taking him to Petco. Apparently you needed that clarification. I have NO IDEA where you got that he has bitten me because I have repeatedly posted that he is nothing but SWEET AND CUDDLY with me and my husband. He has never shown us any aggression. So before you get on here judging the crap out of me and my dog, maybe you should take a step back, evaluate your reading skills and recognize that in my original post I said I need to know if this is reversible or if I need to get rid of him. 

If you hadn't noticed, everyone but you on here seems to actually love dogs. Not sure why you decided to join a forum about them if you're so convinced that not every dog can be saved. I never said he could be, but I did say I am willing to do what it takes to fix him. I also said that I am looking into muzzles. Why do you waste your time commenting if you don't even read the posts I previously wrote? I joined this forum to get advice, not to hear a lady take everything I say out of context, fabricate, and throw it all in my face. If you actually want to be useful, I welcome it! Otherwise, fine someone else's forum to screw around on.


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

To everyone else, I thank you for your posts and the links. I am definitely looking into them and both my husband and I will do what we can to get Jeffrey the help he needs. We hope and pray that he does not need to be put down. I will get into contact with some behavioralists asap and see a bout a muzzle so we can get him into a vet. I very much appreciate all of the advice.

Aww, I had not thought of him being protective of her. I suppose that would make sense. He treats her like she is his pup.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

JeffBuddy said:


> Oh goodness, as I write this he is sitting there with the sweetest face.
> 
> Suzzy,
> If you were to knock on my door, he and the puppy would bark. I would then put them both upstairs where he can't get out. If I didn't do that and I let you in, he would bite you.
> ...


Have you cleaned the area where he goes with something that also kills the smell? If not then that is an open invitation for him to go over and over in that spot.


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## JeffBuddy (May 11, 2011)

Yes, I have.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Well, I will add my two cents.

The child changes everything. 

Years ago, I had a springer spaniel that I probably should have PTS instead of managing her.... Unprovoked agression, resource guarding, food agressive......only dog I have ever had with these problems and I think it was medical.......I say that because I have owned other dogs and never had such problems before or after.

I always managed this dog and never had a serious incident but when I think of what COULD have happened.....kids are SO unpredictable 

Maybe this dog would accept your child and be bombproof but what about a sitter or other kids....no matter how many layers of control you build, a gate or door WILL be left open.

I do think there may be too much leniency in allowing this dog to run the show. For me such a dog would never be allowed on the furniture for instance and would have to earn all affection. Actually, I am not sure I would be able to live with it and would probably give the dog a few happy days and put it down as nicely as possible [IF there was no medical cause that could be fixed] then look long and hard at everything before raising another.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I love dogs, have been involved with dogs for over 40 years and do everything I can to save dogs. I work for vets, have trained dogs, show dogs and bred dogs. Why would you think I don't like dogs? Because I openly say that some dogs are too aggressive and some need to be put down? Because I said your dog is a financial liability waiting to crash down on you? I thought I read that he attacked you at the vets. 
I know you said he has the run of the 1st floor, my comment was about crating him. Every dog needs to have a place to go into when they want and to be put in when they need to be. Crates are not bad things, they are great. My dogs love their crates. Crates are used for control and for training. Giving the dog the run of the place doesn't always mean that is the best for the dog. Sometimes they need to know that YOU run your home,not him. If he needs crate time for being aggressive,then put him in a crate. Too much freedom with a dog that has control issues is not good.
Seems I must be the only one who sees that some dogs need to be put down for their own safety and the safety of others. I am glad there are people on this forum who can live with the fact that the dog runs their lives, that you have a dog that you can't take anywhere, can't even take to the vets, can't go for walks without him biting someone. I want to be able to enjoy my dogs and have them be an active part of my life, not having to be kept away from public streets, not be locked away from visitors and not having to live with the fact that my dog attacked a person welcomed into my home to take care of them. I have probably trained more dogs in more venues than alot of folks on this forum and probably have been bitten alot more by someone elses dogs that are not trained and socialized properly, or in this case a rescue that was not taken care of before you got him. It must be nice in this day of financial problems to be able to risk your home and anything you own on a dog that does bite.
Don't worry, I won't post anymore to anyone about biting issues.
And excuse me, I read about the vet and thought it said he attacked you. Forgive me, guess I am just not perfect like the rest of you.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

I think what we need to remember here is that she is trying all alternatives FIRST before making the decision to put the dog down. 

A trainer/behaviorist is going to be able to tell you the dog can be reigned in or not. It's not only a liability to them but any good trainer would not put anyone else in danger if they knew the dog was beyond help.

The same goes for your vet.

To OP If you take your dog in public places I would have him wear a muzzle. 









Something like this not a clothe muzzle.

Also it doesn't sound like you have the control of him you think you do. Putting him upstairs is not control when opening the door to strangers. Telling your dog to "Leave it" and "Sit/Stay" while you open the door is control. You are not helping yourself by putting him away. You need to teach him that you are in charge and what you say goes. So putting him on a leash with a training nylon slip collar 










and teach him commands. Sit. Stay. Wait. Leave it. If he knows these commands already then put him on the leash with the collar and have someone knock at the door and practice control just there. With the knock. Once you can get him under control with the knock then open the door and try and maintain the same control then take it further. 

Like someone else said you need to stop "spoiling him" you are feeding the beast. And like it or not if it turn out not to be a medical issue, chances are you created this monster (not trying to point finger or be mean I am just saying IMO based on what you have told us) He is dominant but aggressive. He does what he wants, when he wants, to who he wants. The puppy is HIS. The house is HIS. You are HIS. We need to get it flipped around and get you in charge. 


What do you do at meal time....can you walk me through that??
This is a good place to start.

I really do hope you persue help because he is a ticking timebomb if you don't.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

The dog bit 3 people from what I understood in your post. You are already very lucky you haven't been sued, and I know some laws will allow a dog to bite once and be known as an offender, and the 2nd bite you will be forced to put it down.

You sound like you are in over your head and the dog is proven to be unpredictable. Especially with him biting without even showing aggression first. This already serious issue could potentially become tragic if a child is bit (Childrens height lends to a higher possibility of a facial bite too). 

I get anxiety thinking about there being a dog that behaves like your dog, with an owner who may not be making the right choices like yourself. Not to mention there are now 3 more people in this world who think the German Shepherd breed is vicious because they were attacked by one. 

Its sad but some dogs have been through too many traumatic events and need to be put down for the safety of others.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

I feel bad for the people who have gotten bit  . I would be ****** if I was going about my daily business and I got bit by someone's dog, and to know that it wasn't the first time it happened. As unpredictable as he is, I think you need to part ways with him before your baby is born. If something happens to your baby on account of your dog who is already acting aggressive, how will you ever forgive yourself? It sure is a possibility and a question you need to think about.

My husband has been bitten by 2 GSDs. One of them was a repeat offender who then 2 weeks later bit a child, our nephew who was not even making any sort of contact with the dog...only minding his own business.

This is all my opinion. I feel very strongly that a dog who bites needs to be extensively managed to PREVENT it from ever happening a 2nd time, or euthanized. I would not take the chance of my family and our financial stability- a roof over our head- over any dog, but that's just me!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

JeffBuddy said:


> My husband and I adopted our dog, Jeffrey from a humane society.
> 
> xxxxx I think the dog had problems and that is why he was surrendered to a humane society. I am sceptical that the staff at the shelter did not have some knowledge about the dogs problems either from previous owner at time of the dog being handed over -- or at the time that you adopted him.
> 
> ...


xxxxxxxxxxx Your dog has already bitten too many times and showed unpredictable behaviour . He does not sound stable or mentally well adjusted . You summed it up with your last words "KNOWING THAT HE WILL BITE THEM" 

so what redeeming features does this dog have?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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