# Emotional Rollercoaster



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

So I haven't been doing any work since the "incident". 

Today I went to my usual dog club and I talked to my helper. He told me that the helper from the other club doesn't have the sensual feeling for dogs like that and that he had quite some dog handlers from that club because that helper couldn't handle those dogs. 

I know I can believe my helper. Today Yukon was better than ever before. I wished I would have had the camera with me but I forgot it in the clicker room. 

He said that if I wanted to continue *we* (could it be? Is he going to continue training me and my dogs until we leave? THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME!!!) would have to start doing more and train at least twice a week in Schutzhund now. 

It's like an emotional rollercoaster. Two weeks ago I wanted to quit completely because the other helper managed to shut him down in two minutes and today he showed that he's got it in him!

Man, I am telling you, I am more stressed out than the dog. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much... :help:


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

Go with the flow and see where it takes you. :hugs:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, I have to do that. Next time I am definitely taking the camera.


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## HPFMTRE (Jul 6, 2010)

Good luck with everything. Ive been reading your threads. I hope it all works out. I just started my Schutzhund with my pup.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

STOP BEING SUCH A WIMPY CRYBABY!!! 

I'm sure you have had worse things than this happen in your life and you got through them. Schutzhund is full of disappointments and that's just part of the game. What will make you successful is rebounding from those disappointments. You can work through this or you can quit....but for the love of god quit whining!!!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

That was mean or just a form of sarcasm I'm totally missing?


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Tough love


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Wow...am I supposed to be impressed?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

No your not,lol tact is a gift not everyone has been given


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Eh, it's okay. He totally missed the point anyway. I was impressed about Yukon since he shut down a couple of weeks ago and am hoping that my helper doesn't quit in August because he said that we have to start working twice a week and not just once IF I want to continue. 

I was stressing over the whole thing, that I know but only because I am under a lot of pressure because a lot of people want to see me fail. 

I was even told that I don't belong at a dog club because of my weight and that I am not considered athletic and that I'd be never titling a dog not speaking of passing the BH at all... 

Oh and yes, Fast...if I want to let off steam I will let it out. I've learned a long time ago that it is not healthy to bottle it up and keep it inside. I am not the only one writing about mishaps and progress and I won't let anyone tell me what I can write about and what I can't write about, except for moderators and admins. 

If you don't like it, don't read it.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Maybe this training twice a week will be good for both of you Don't let a few pounds cast doubt on your ability to train and title Yukon- you can do it and when you do imagine the talk then,lol


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Mrs.K said:


> Oh and yes, Fast...if I want to let off steam I will let it out. I've learned a long time ago that it is not healthy to bottle



Steam is one of the greatest powers on this earth. It can power whole countries and it can blow the tops off of mountains. It's a shame to not use that power productively. If people want to see you fail steamroll over them. You have power so use it. Don't just hit the blow-off valve and let that power escape.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

> I was even told that I don't belong at a dog club because of my weight and that I am not considered athletic and that I'd be never titling a dog not speaking of passing the BH at all...


What has your weight got to do with any of that? Those people at that club need an attitude adjustment. With a two by four.

Please find a club that is willing to work with you, and stick with it. When you get your Schutzhund I title, get a picture of you and your dog shaking hands with the judge. Send it to them.

I have a friend who recently got her first Schutzhund I title with her dog. She admits that her dog is not the most athletic, or the most prey-driven. She was told as much at another club. They weren't being mean or nasty about it, they just wanted to see my friend succeed, and didn't think her dog was capable. They didn't want to see her do a lot of work for nothing, I guess. But they did continue to help her train.

Well, after she got the title, she baked a cake with the words, "She'll Never Do It" on it. They all had a laugh as my friend made them "eat their words."


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> I was even told that I don't belong at a dog club because of my weight and that I am not considered athletic and that I'd be never titling a dog not speaking of passing the BH at all...


OK, that one just makes me angry. That is just stupid! I am short, overweight, un-athletic, and asthmatic. I have belonged to my club for almost a year now. I may not be as quick and agile as some people, but I can certainly do what needs to be done to train my dog. If anything gets in the way it is my asthma, but days that are extremely cold or the pollen is in the air, I just don't work on heeling a lot. 

What an idot that said that to you!  Besides, how is a person supposed to STOP being overweight and unathletic if they don't get outside and move around. RRRRrrrrr, I know I am taking that personally, but RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrr.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> RRRRrrrrr, I know I am taking that personally, but RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrr.


Me too, me too and today I thought I had to strangle the lady at the club house. I wanted to drink something and she tried to tell me that I _can't_ have coke because somebody like me shouldn't drink coke I should drink Apple Juice instead or have a water so I told her that Apple Juice has just as much sugar as coke. 

I really don't drink much coke. We don't have that at home and if we have anything like that at home it's always coke zero so if I want to drink a **** coke than give it to me. I am paying for it!


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Yeah. Time to get out of that club. That is extremely rude! They give juice to diabetics when their sugar drops for a reason! I don't care if you weight 500 lbs that is none of her business.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

The helper is great though. He is awesome and I just love that guy because I can learn so much from him. So I'll stick it out until he quits.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Mrs. K- I joined a club that truly was not meant for me last year- was still in the period before they voted me in, when I brought my 2nd rescue GSD home. I did not like some things I over heard the TD saying, or the TD in general for a few reasons, so I ended up quitting. I am not a confrontational person unless I get angry and that was not a good setting for me as I was always stressed out. 

The trainer for that club quit recently, for much the same reasons, and now he does training at our local park. He is a totally different person now too-because he is not stressed out! I have been working with him ever since I heard of his new endeavor and could not be happier! In just two short sessions I can already see a HUGE difference in my rescue girl. She went from being nippy and not accepting strangers AT ALL, to plopping in his lap last weekend. We still have a LONG way to go, but this is so amazing to see & I could not be happier. 

My point is, that as we all know, our dogs feed off us-if we are upset or happy, calm or nervous, etc....so follow your heart, do what makes YOU feel the most comfortable and you will get the best results from your dog. It will be the difference in good results vs. not so good in his performance


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Yea, hang in there and work with your dog!


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

While I think your helper there is quite kind to help you and probably has years of experience to share with you, later on, (depending on your goals), the dogs are going to be entered in a trial. At that point, all bets are off, since the helper is not there to help the dog, he is there to help the judge evaluate the dog. If Yukon is managing to work with a very helpful trainer, (but still struggles with new ones), he is going to have problems and when that occurs, it will most likely not be pleasant for the dog. If you consider your concern for him, and the worry you might feel on trial day, then you have to understand the weight the dog will be carrying when he already shows a not over powering interest in SchH. In my opinion, you have to decide what is the right thing for the dog and only the dog. I have watched people spend years training the wrong dog in order to "prove something". One guy was very interested in SchH, ( still is), and invested a great deal of time training. However, the dog was just not cut out for it . I did have the conversation with him about what he could accomplish with a dog that really enjoyed the training vs the struggle and upset that was constant, ( not only for him but the dog) . To me, it only proved the guy was thinking more about himself and his ego than he was thinking about the dog. Basically, people don't care what other people are trying to prove. Mostly, they care about what they, themselves, are doing. Whether you knock yourself out trying to title your dog will not matter one iota to them. 
I certainly am not one to discourage people from doing SchH, but I am one to look at the dogs and wonder how much they are enjoying it. I have quit working a number of dogs when I realized that either I was not having fun, ( which affected the dog), or the dog was not having fun, ( which affected both of us). I think one of the great negatives about SchH training is when people do not consider who the dog is and what is fair for him/her.

As for the other comments about weight and things like that. Lots of people are carrying around some extra poundage these days, so, that is not the point of what I am about to say. What is important though, is the skill of the handler. I just had this conversation with the person I train with yesterday. His name is Betty. 
Anyway, not only does he have moments where he looks like Betty White as the helper, he also can be like that as the handler. Now, he is new, so, I like to kid him, but at the same time, I don't think most people realize just how important THEY are when they are handling their dog. Everyone says "be a pole" but that only means as far as standing in one place. When you do helper work for a while, you start to see just how much the handlers can disturb their dogs. The thing to consider here is the handler is just as important as far as maintaining the dog's drive level as the helper is. People who are behind the dog struggling to hold the line or to just stand up etc, make their dogs unsure or like I said, will take the dog out of drive. As a result, the helper has to do more to bring the dog back up in drive and this is where most of the dogs who are "reactive" are created. People might have to think about that for a minute to understand what I am saying. Ideally, you want the dog to load in drive with as little stimulation from the helper as possible. Of course, early in the training, things are a bit different and the helper will do more, but as the training progresses, your goal is to have the dog load when he just _sees_ the helper...kind of like most dogs load when they see the mailman. If an inept handler keeps taking the drive away , the helper starts to do more to compensate and this is where the problems start. The dog starts to need to see more from the helper because that is what the helper always has to be doing to counteract the handler. You won't have a helper popping the whip and bringing up the drive on trial day. That is the day when the handler alone has to bring his dog in drive but if he/she never learns how important they are in that regard, things can get ugly in a hurry.

So many people want to blame the helpers but rarely look at themselves. Again, it's not about weight if you can get out there and handle the line, support your dog and be part of the work. If you can't, you have to understand that you are holding your dog back. Years ago, when I was younger, I would simply wipe the floor with handlers who could not get on the program. Now, I am a tad more patient.... but not much. Maybe I yell less but I still see the damage inflicted by the handlers. I guess what I have learned is that I can't care more than the dog's owner does but I can refuse to work dogs where this is taking place. It is simply so frustrating I will no longer put myself in that situation. Some helpers really care about the work they put into a dog and it starts to feel like a waste of time when you are there spinning your wheels while running around trying to counteract the negative effect of the handler. This is especially true when the handler is not willing to accept that they have a big role to play.

So, again, my point is, there is a level of skill necessary in the handlers, no matter what the scale says . When it is not there, you see the dogs kind of plateau at a certain level. With the right handling, the dogs can improve and progress dramatically but the handler must be willing to understand how important they are to their dog and work at improving their own skills. The helpers cannot train the dogs alone.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Thank you Anne. I love your advise and words. 

I've already made a decision. We did see improvement with the current (old) helper in Yukon. But it is not as dramatically as we've improved in the Obedience part. Once my helper quits in August I will retire Yukon from Schutzhund training. It was great to build confidence but now that he actually plays tug-o-war I can always do it at home with him. 

I wanted it for Yukon. I wanted those people who said that I should shoot my dogs because they don't have it that he does have it but I believe that he's proved enough already. The fact that he is biting with the helper, that he has fun playing tug-o-war, that I can take him anywhere and everywhere, into Restaurants, Trains and downtown into any store, that we soon are going to take the BH is more than anyone would have ever expected. 

It also shows that I am not as bad as I always think I am. I guess I am underestimating myself most of the time. He's the first dog I got BH ready. Most of the Methods I've got from here and from Youtube. 

The first time I heard about tabletraining was on here and I do believe that all of you had more impact on our training than the clubs I went to. 

So if we are going to pass the BH there are a lot of people on here that I have to thank. Not only for the support but because they share their knowledge with all of us. Also, I would have never gotten into clicker training the way I did without this forum, would have never started feeding Orijen and I don't know if I would have managed to re-train down. 

So yes, Yukon has proved a lot already. He's a great companion dog, the best I've ever had. We will continue with Obedience, which he has so much fun with and who knows, after the BH... maybe we will continue to trial in Obedience and/or Agility just for fun. 

I guess I've learned something. It's not about others, it's about us and only us and especially the dog.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have to commend you for your thoughtfulness about your dog. I was thinking about this situation with Yukon. If someone can work a dog in such a way that builds confidence it can be very beneficial. It is so great that you found someone who could be helpful and allow Yukon to grow, so to speak. To make the best decision for the dog is to your credit. I can't even get to a schutzhund club, so believe me, there is lots of fun to be had with a dog in other activities. 

Schutzhund is not the be all and end all for every dog. If someone is breeding, I think that the traits it tests for are very important in breeding decisions. The dogs who don't excel at it are still dogs! They have a lot to offer and should not be discounted from a human/animal relationship standpoint. There are days I really believe the airy-fairy idea that the dogs come to teach us something. Yukon, no doubt, has much to offer!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You are right Samba, Schutzhund isn't everything. There are so many different things we can do. Who knows, maybe I'll even try herding once we get the US. 

With Zenzy I am doing a lot of clicker work. She is a total different story than Yukon. She'll be retired from Schutzhund too. She is more into learning tricks and just has fun showing that she can learn. It's so precious to see how she is discovering every single step and she seems so proud when she actually figured it out. 

Indra is the only one that will continue with Schutzhund as long as she has fun doing it.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Vandal said:


> Anyway, not only does he have moments where he looks like Betty White as the helper


I'm also just starting. My nickname at training is "robo-helper" ... hopefully I can shed the moniker by the end of this summer!


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## blackviolet (Jun 17, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Me too, me too and today I thought I had to strangle the lady at the club house. I wanted to drink something and she tried to tell me that I _can't_ have coke because somebody like me shouldn't drink coke I should drink Apple Juice instead or have a water


WHAT.

Seriously, wtf is wrong with these people? You are obviously not a child, and unless you have been coming to them for help, advice or complaints about your weight, your dietary decisions are absolutely none of their business. Ugh.



Vandal said:


> one to look at the dogs and wonder how much they are enjoying it. I have quit working a number of dogs when I realized that either I was not having fun, ( which affected the dog), or the dog was not having fun, ( which affected both of us). I think one of the great negatives about SchH training is when people do not consider who the dog is and what is fair for him/her.


That's how I feel. It seems like fun, and as long as he seems to enjoy it, we'll do it. If not, oh well, we'll do something else. I don't care much about titling and all that (that's what I say now, but after working for a year, I might change my mind, haha), I really only care about keeping him active and challenged both mentally and physically. If he likes it and does well and earns titles, awesome! If he doesn't like schutzhund, maybe we'll do agility or something. Maybe we'll just teach him a bunch of cheesy tricks.

In the end, all I really care about is him as a member of the family. If he has it in him to do well at schutzhund, great. If not, I don't care at all.



Mrs.K said:


> I wanted it for Yukon. I wanted those people who said that I should shoot my dogs because they don't have it that he does have it but I believe that he's proved enough already. The fact that he is biting with the helper, that he has fun playing tug-o-war, that I can take him anywhere and everywhere, into Restaurants, Trains and downtown into any store, that we soon are going to take the BH is more than anyone would have ever expected. So yes, Yukon has proved a lot already. He's a great companion dog, the best I've ever had. We will continue with Obedience, which he has so much fun with and who knows, after the BH... maybe we will continue to trial in Obedience and/or Agility just for fun.
> 
> I guess I've learned something. It's not about others, it's about us and only us and especially the dog.


Good decision! I know it's frustrating when people are jackasses and naysayers, and you want to prove them wrong, but at the same time, you have to think about what's best for you and your dogs. If those people had been nice and happy to help, and your dog just didn't like it and wasn't having fun, and was stressed out, would you have pressed as hard to succeed, or did you try so hard because they said you couldn't? In the end, you sound like you and your dogs will be better off without those people in your lives. 

Some people play instruments, some people are good at sports, some people write, some are good at math, some are best at social interactions, etc.. Your dog is still a dog, and like people, they all have things that they like better, and that they just perform better at, and it doesn't make them any less of a friend and companion. Do what makes you both happy. <3


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