# Food Change, Advice Please...



## CuriousKira (Mar 15, 2011)

I've been reading on the forum and internet all afternoon trying to figure out the best choice for our food change. Kira came from the breeder on Royal Canin GSD Puppy, we decided to keep her on it because she ate well & look good. I know it's not the best food out there, but it worked for us and there are plenty other who do great on lower quality food. However lately we have to practically beg Kira to eat, she's not wanting to eat much and although her energy is through the roof, which brought us to her not gaining much lately.

I've taken the warming up of the weather into account and the fact that she has always been a lean girl but It seems like her appetite should be a bit better with the energy levels we are seeing. We have had her cleared for worms and our vet has said this increase i energy is right on par with her being 6 months old. 

My question is I would like some opinions on food that people have personally fed their dogs. I've done the research & found a few I think are pretty good but would love some input & guidance  please no bashing or world wars, I know there are some very strong opinions on food & if you would't recomemend a food can you tell me why please!!

Right now we are looking at:
Orijen large breed puppy
Acana large breed puppy
Innova large breed puppy
TOTW - Pacific Stream & Sierra Mountain

(if you don't want to reply on my thread, please feel free to pm me)


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

CuriousKira said:


> I've been reading on the forum and internet all afternoon trying to figure out the best choice for our food change. Kira came from the breeder on Royal Canin GSD Puppy, we decided to keep her on it because she ate well & look good. I know it's not the best food out there, but it worked for us and there are plenty other who do great on lower quality food. However lately we have to practically beg Kira to eat, she's not wanting to eat much and although her energy is through the roof, which brought us to her not gaining much lately.
> 
> I've taken the warming up of the weather into account and the fact that she has always been a lean girl but It seems like her appetite should be a bit better with the energy levels we are seeing. We have had her cleared for worms and our vet has said this increase i energy is right on par with her being 6 months old.
> 
> ...


Don't beg, don't switch. Could be the heat, could be maturity or could be she is reading your body language. Have you been adding anything to her current food? Are you hovering over her while she eats? Do you get emotional when she doesn't eat?

If the vet cleared her. I would just ignore her. The foods you mentioned are no better.

Don't let her manipulate you. If she doesn't eat take the food away and read the paper. She will get the message.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

Orijen and acana are no better than Purina sable?? Wow, I would disregard that. Those are excellent brands except innova might be a little questionable. I've tried all of those , you could look at Merrick as well, The turducken and trout campfire have proper cal/pho levels for our dogs.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

Royal canine, whatever. Lol


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I feed my adult GSD TOTW but I wouldn't feed a puppy TOTW.

I would definitly feed Orijen if I could afford it.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

schroedes said:


> Orijen and acana are no better than Purina sable?? Wow, I would disregard that. Those are excellent brands except innova might be a little questionable. I've tried all of those , you could look at Merrick as well, The turducken and trout campfire have proper cal/pho levels for our dogs.


Merrick is a good example, perhaps the best example, on how you market dog food to people, specifically women. Very average product at a Porsche price. Over 50% carbohydrate and no better or worse than most foods. Do you know what I a can do with $50 for a 30 lb bag.

You can admire all the labels you want and the claims about "fresh never frozen" but your dog doesn't care and is no better for it.

Dog food is a business plain and simple.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Tried Orijen but it was too rich for my pup. TOTW is working well for her.
And, yes, I did phase it in verrrrrrrry gradually.


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## Micky (Jan 1, 2011)

Stella has moments were she doesn't want to eat, we put it back in the fridge and she will eat it later, we have found that if we mix some cheese or cooked beef with the kibble we get better results. we had her on orijen but it was just to heavy for her, we will put her back on it when she is older. Stella is 8 month don't let the dog make you crazy if the vet has cleared the dog there can be many reasons for not having the normal eatin habbit. When Stella hat her first heat she was of her food most of the time which made me nuts, even started to sit down with her and feeding her by hand (yeah I know) till I found out that they will eat when they are hungry.


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## ChrisR2010 (Dec 5, 2009)

The food you mention are all good food... mix them all up, or rotate, it's fine.
Royal Canin is a proven food btw. It's been around for over 30 years, and the ingredients found in this food are good. If you feed a food with grain, I would supplement it with a kibble with higher meat content.
My GSD is 3 years old, and she can't eat during summer days either. She waits when it cools off. I usually give her two meals a day. A meal consists of 2 cups of dry food (RC gsd 24 + kibble red meat evo) mixed with 1/3 wet food + a bit of water.
During the summer, she eats closer to 3 cups a day. Winter, closer to 5 cups a day.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

The brands that you mentioned are all good options. Before you switch, however, have you considered adding some canned food and warm water to her meals or something like boiled chicken, yogurt or cheese as a topper? 

With all of our dogs, it is a trial and error when it comes to feeding. What works for one person's dog may not work for another.


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## CuriousKira (Mar 15, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Don't beg, don't switch. Could be the heat, could be maturity or could be she is reading your body language. Have you been adding anything to her current food? Are you hovering over her while she eats? Do you get emotional when she doesn't eat?
> 
> If the vet cleared her. I would just ignore her. The foods you mentioned are no better.
> 
> Don't let her manipulate you. If she doesn't eat take the food away and read the paper. She will get the message.


No we don't show her any more or less attention while eating, its just been the past few weeks that ive been asking her to go eat her food. It doesn't matter if we give it to her and take it away & give it to her at the next meal, still little or no interest.

I don't feel that she is manipulating me, just that she doesn't care for this food & I've had other people tell me the same thing with their dogs.


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## CuriousKira (Mar 15, 2011)

I've tried chicken, eggs, yogurt & cheese and she will eat everything sometimes but others she will pick around the kibble to the goodies. I figured I would get a small bag of another food and see if she likes it better. Around here Royal Canine & Orijen both go for about $55 a 30 pound bag so we may try that next.


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## GROVEBEAUTY (Oct 23, 2008)

We feed Solid Gold, TOTW Bison, 4 Health rotating every couple of bags. I think the dogs sometimes get bored with the same food. It's a little tricky to switch slowly, but with practice it gets easier. I usually feed 2-3 cups of dry with one can of canned food. We feed this twice a day. Our dogs always go through a period when it first gets hot when they have little interest in food. I am not a big fan of Royal Canin. JMHO. My dogs do well on the above foods. They also get three fish oil, 3 glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM, 4 ester c, and two multiple vitamins.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

sable123 said:


> Merrick is a good example, perhaps the best example, on how you market dog food to people, specifically women. Very average product at a Porsche price. Over 50% carbohydrate and no better or worse than most foods. Do you know what I a can do with $50 for a 30 lb bag.
> 
> You can admire all the labels you want and the claims about "fresh never frozen" but your dog doesn't care and is no better for it.
> 
> Dog food is a business plain and simple.


Of course its a business, but if she's gonna pay that price anyways why not go with a better brand? For $50 bucks I can get a 30 pound bag and a 12 pack of their canned food which the dogs love. It gets them to eat. They lifted their nose at orijen and wellness after a couple months of it. My dogs are very active so I wanted to try something with a little more cards as they were getting to lean. I believe the Merrick formula I have is 46% carbs and 39% protein. Around there, I can't remember right now. I would trust Merrick before royal canine anyday. They produce everything themselves with human grade food source all in the US. Christ the canned food looks good enough for me to eat.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

schroedes said:


> Of course its a business, but if she's gonna pay that price anyways why not go with a better brand? For $50 bucks I can get a 30 pound bag and a 12 pack of their canned food which the dogs love. It gets them to eat. They lifted their nose at orijen and wellness after a couple months of it. My dogs are very active so I wanted to try something with a little more cards as they were getting to lean. I believe the Merrick formula I have is 46% carbs and 39% protein. Around there, I can't remember right now. I would trust Merrick before royal canine anyday. They produce everything themselves with human grade food source all in the US. Christ the canned food looks good enough for me to eat.


Friday-night dump-and-run recalls — it’s the American Way! | PetConnection.com

The Royal Canin plant here operates at the standard of a bakery for human products, like Natura's plant.

All the Merrick kibbles are 24 ish/ 14 ish. Before the Grain is higher protein. Merrick has clever marketing but its just a regular food underneath. You can buy 88lbs of Pro Pac with that money and that is human grade too.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

Royal canine with its corn gluten meal wheat gluten meal , beet pulp,etc is a better food huh?? Ok you got me there. Sounds like overpriced crap with clever marketing schemes aimed at specific breeds just like you talk about huh? I would choose Merrick, orijen etc over all the corn and rice based food that your always touting here anyday, and I'm sure most other members would too. Don't understand your basis.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

Royal has had more recalls than you can count, has questionable ingredients known to cause allergies, has only one source of meat. Regardless if your a dog food expert or not a little commen sense tells a person to probably stay away from it. Kira try a meat based high protein diet, if that doesn't work try some of the other brands from reputable companies that don't have to necessarily be grain free but have at least 2 meat ingredients in the first 5 ingredients and use whole grain, not gluten or pulp etc. Those are just cheap fillers.


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## ChrisR2010 (Dec 5, 2009)

schoedes, show us GSDs that are not healthy because of royal canin and prove that the "questionable" ingredients have no benefits for dogs.
Just prove it. Show statistics. There are limits to stupudity, huh?


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

ChrisR2010 said:


> schoedes, show us GSDs that are not healthy because of royal canin and prove that the "questionable" ingredients have no benefits for dogs.
> Just prove it. Show statistics. There are limits to stupudity, huh?


 limits to stupidity?? im sure you would know those limits pal, noone was attacking you. i dont need to show you, you can look for yourself, also a little common sense would tell you that based on a dogs physiology that ingredients like that would not be needed in dog food, or any food for that matter. i would feed raw if i had the time and a little more knowhow but i cant right now. its just like any animal including humans, fresh raw food is the best, so chris, why dont you show me the benefits and uses for these ingredients, and " prove their usefulness". statistics?? the vast majority of people feed cheap dog food loaded with these types of ingredients, look at all the cancer, disease, obesity etc present in dogs, i would assume a connection, just like humans and all of our processed foods. you think dogs got diabetes a 1000 years ago?? doubt it, just a little common sense pal. our industrial diet is killing us and our dogs. if you wanna feed low quality overpriced food, go right ahead.....


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

mabe you and sable work for a corn distributor or royal canine or something like that?? i dont get it.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

*INGREDIENTS*

Chicken meal, rice, oatmeal, brown rice, corn gluten meal, wheat gluten meal, chicken fat, natural chicken flavor, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), sodium silico aluminate, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), dried egg product, fructo-oligosaccharides, psyllium seed husk, soya oil, potassium chloride, salt, sodium tripolyphosphate, L-lysine, taurine, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), DL-methionine, Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid
I really wouldnt call that very impressive ingredients for the price. im sure most people would agree but they, like me, are tired of debating with you and sable. i was just trying to give a little helpful advice to the poster.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Chicken meal, brown rice, oatmeal, chicken fat, barley, rice, natural chicken flavor, pork meal, soy protein isolate, sodium silico aluminate, wheat gluten meal, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), powdered cellulose, anchovy oil (source of EPA/DHA), soya oil, potassium chloride, salt, calcium carbonate, dried egg product, sodium tripolyphosphate, DL-methionine, L-tyrosine, taurine, dried brewers yeast extract (source of mannan-oligosaccharides), Vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], tea (green tea extract), chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

And your point?


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

schroedes said:


> And your point?


Do you think the ingredients in this food are inexpensive?


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

Yes I do.


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## ChrisR2010 (Dec 5, 2009)

Research shows that Royal Canin GSD 24 is a fine food. Way better than what dogs would eat if left in the wild.
Royal Canin has been around for more than 30 years. Research shows that Royal Canin feeds more dogs every year, and research shows that dogs fed on Royal Canin are healthy rather than sick. Research shows that dogs expected longevity is not shorten by Royal Canin food. These are just facts.
If you dismiss Royal Canin's marketing message so easily, I would put at least as much effort in finding out what's wrong with the marketing claims that want you to believe that dogs need to be fed like wild wolves.
Stupidity stops when questions & answers come before opinions.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm not getting into the Royal Canine argument, but I wouldn't feed it to my dogs. If it works for others, that's great. I feed TOTW Lamb and my dogs love it. The chicken and bison formulas have a bit too much calcium and protein for pups. I tried the Orijen LBP, but like some others, it was a bit too rich, and my dogs just weren't crazy about it. I've also tried Wellness Core and Wellness LBP (the LBP went back the very next day as my pup just wouldn't touch it)- they weren't fans of it either, but they ate it. I like to feed my dog what works for them, but I also want them to enjoy it. It takes some trial and error. My dogs just do better on grain free foods, and I have one that's allergic to grains, so I stay away from them.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

ChrisR2010 said:


> Research shows that Royal Canin GSD 24 is a fine food. Way better than what dogs would eat if left in the wild.
> Royal Canin has been around for more than 30 years. Research shows that Royal Canin feeds more dogs every year, and research shows that dogs fed on Royal Canin are healthy rather than sick. Research shows that dogs expected longevity is not shorten by Royal Canin food. These are just facts.
> If you dismiss Royal Canin's marketing message so easily, I would put at least as much effort in finding out what's wrong with the marketing claims that want you to believe that dogs need to be fed like wild wolves.
> Stupidity stops when questions & answers come before opinions.


research?? Whose research?? Who funded those studies? How can you say that commercial processed dog food would be better than a wild diet? Again, I would assume you would have common sense but apparently not. Again ill point out that for the price there are better foods out there, you wanna bash and call names like a child then go elsewhere.


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## schroedes (Sep 10, 2010)

Just like humans, our minds have evolved but our bodies needs remain the same, fresh fruit, veggies, meat etc is what is best, not processed food, right? But I like many others don't have the time to feed raw all the time so why not look at ingredients and make the best choice with your budget? For the price I wouldn't ever feed royal canine or probably anything else that is sold at vets offices.


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## ChrisR2010 (Dec 5, 2009)

wether you like it or not, Royal Canin has been around for over 30 years and have conducted extensive research on dog nutrition, especially GSDs. Their formula evolves along with their research. They are strong on the market, and dogs fed with Royal Canin are not worse than others, and the owners who feed Royal Canin are not necessarily morally or intellectually inferior. Royal Canin is a good processed food among others. Not as good as fresh food, but sufficient to keep dogs in excellent health. It is a great choice within this budget, and I am sorry that this bothers you so much. I don't wanna bash no body.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

CuriousKira: maybe it's the heat. several times
my dog wouldn't eat when it's been hot. sometimes
he doesn't ask for a treat when it's hot. my dog stopped
eating his food on 2 different occasions. i thought he
stopped liking what i was feeding. i switched foods
and he ate like a champ. i switch my dogs kibble sometimes
month to month. sometimes when he's in the middle of a 40lb
bag i'll buy a 10lb bag of a different brand and give it to him.
i normally have 4 or 5 brands of can food on hand. i also mix a lot
different things with his kibble.


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## erpeden (Mar 10, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> CuriousKira: maybe it's the heat. several times
> my dog wouldn't eat when it's been hot. sometimes
> he doesn't ask for a treat when it's hot. my dog stopped
> eating his food on 2 different occasions. i thought he
> ...


I am glad to hear that it is not bad to switch. My dog is not eating very much now either and I am in the process of trying to find something he likes. I have taken him off the puppy food and this is where I am running into problems. I wish they had trial bags of food. I am going to have 10 different bags of food at home before I find something he likes.


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