# Kira and Calli Female Littermates



## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

Kira and Calli, my girls. 
I got them at 6 weeks (Yes, I know, not ideal, but they were either coming with me or going who knows where!)
They are GSD and Husky mixes, so not purebred.
It is funny though because they both have traits of both breeds, I think it will be a decent mix 

They are now 14 weeks, almost completely house broken, still have a puppy pee pad in the house just in case. 
Know how to sit. Know how to come....although they don't always :/

I am having issues teaching them their names though! Any one have hints/advice?

They are doing pretty well on leashes, and behave wonderfully with other dogs!
But with each other they seem aggressive, although it might just be puppy play. Is there a way to tell? 

The main reason this concerns me is because I have had a few people come up to me recently and tell me female littermates are horrible together. That given the opportunity they will kill each other. Although I know people who have female littermates and have no issues! Is there any way to know if this will be an issue? Is there any way to prevent it? Make them be nice to each other?

Feeling a little overwhelmed. That being said it has been a very long day of driving, sun, and puppies. But I wanted to see out some advice from anyone willing to give it.

Also, if anyone lives in the Chicago area, I would be interested in talking more! 

I need to figure out places for puppy play dates 

I am also planning on taking them to the Indiana dunes this week to go in the water  I hope they will swim! Any advice on all of this?

Thanks all

Alyssa


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Welcome to the forum!! Get them into puppy class as soon as possible. And start practicing NILIF (you can search it here on the forum) right away. Lots of exercise is a must too. I don't have any advice on actual littermates but I know that 2 bitches living together can be tough. 

Also, pictures are always needed!!


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

I have no idea how to post pictures!
But I would be willing to.
They get a lot of movement, and every time they are fussy with each other we walk them to wear them out. 

But today kinda freaked me out!

...I think I may have been able to add a picture, not sure though


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

Also I am getting them spayed in a few weeks, and they offer a puppy class soon after that, I figured it would be easier to wait than to have the training interrupted by spaying and healing. That being said, I do work with them on my own, but I am not as successful as I would like to be.


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## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

you should wait at least till 6 months to spay


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

sportsman1539 said:


> you should wait at least till 6 months to spay


I have heard tons on both sides of this argument. 
A lot of people saying you can spay as early as 2 months, and most saying to do before 5 months because they can start their heat cycle at 5 months. Our local animal care league says after 16 weeks is ideal. (I need to double check with their vet too)

Is there a reason you are saying after 6 months?

They would be at least 17 weeks before I would/could do it.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

6 months old is generally safer to spay. spaying before 6 months, according to my vet can actually increase the risks and future problems.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

OMG, they are cute 
I would be afraid to try 2 young pups at once...but if I ran across some that were THAT darn cute, I prolly couldnt say no either


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Welcome...you need to read this:
Leerburg | Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting

My personal advice is to rehome one now while they're young


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> 6 months old is generally safer to spay. spaying before 6 months, according to my vet can actually increase the risks and future problems.


My biggest issue is every vet/person I talk to has a different opinion when spaying is "safe". Its kind of rough! Because everyone seems to have good reasons why you should wait or not wait.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

dazedtrucker said:


> OMG, they are cute
> I would be afraid to try 2 young pups at once...but if I ran across some that were THAT darn cute, I prolly couldnt say no either


It was a litter of 8. And these two are loves. They are getting so big  But they are still adorable. They dig in their water bowl, Calli dips her head in and blows bubbles. 

Alyssa Von D's Photos | Facebook

A link to an album full of pictures of the girls


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

Rerun said:


> Welcome...you need to read this:
> Leerburg | Raising 2 pups at one time in a Family Setting
> 
> My personal advice is to rehome one now while they're young



I have read quite a few like this, but there are also a lot of accounts of siblings being fine. :/ And I know people who have siblings (females) that are fine! I am not sure if the breed of the dog plays into sibling rivalry at all.

But I am literally home with them all the time. 

I have debated rehoming one till closer to a year, but I am not sure I can part with either. Esp permanently. 

Rough decisions, I know. 

I would like to make it work if possible. :help:


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

On the question of teaching them their names..the current names are too similiar. You need to use a different starting consonant and different vowel. For example,two names in same household are : Toby and Willy. Ed and Tim. Ted and Lass. Etc. Good luck.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

spazzydots said:


> But with each other they seem aggressive, although it might just be puppy play. Is there a way to tell?


If you can take video of it, many of could probably comment on it. GSDs sound scary when they play, there is a lot of biting, growling and tumbling around. It takes some getting used to.



spazzydots said:


> The main reason this concerns me is because I have had a few people come up to me recently and tell me female littermates are horrible together. That given the opportunity they will kill each other. Although I know people who have female littermates and have no issues! Is there any way to know if this will be an issue? Is there any way to prevent it? Make them be nice to each other?


There's no way to know until it happens which may not be until they are physically and mentally mature (around 2-3 years old). The breed does play into this a bit. GSDs are more prone to same sex aggression than other breeds.



spazzydots said:


> But I am literally home with them all the time.


You need to let them have some alone time away from you and away from each other. There is going to be a point when you have to leave them and you can have a real problem on your hands if they have never been away from you.

Also, you should be training and socializing them separately as well as together. This will help with teaching them their names as well since right now, they probably have no idea which one you are talking to.

I wouldn't want to have two young puppies, especially female littermates but it works for some people. Have you thought about all the vet bills and about them growing old at the same time? Many of us here like to space out our dogs.

Best of Luck! Hope you'll stick around to read, share and learn!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I raised 2 littermates at the same time and it was EXTREMELY difficult and I would never do it again, I was only working part time when I was raising them. 

One puppy caught on to tricks and training fast while the other one was slower and required more time and more training but because my time was split between them, the slower puppy didn't get the amount of training she should have gotten. 
I think it was unfair to split my time between them, they both deserved to have me all to themselves while they were puppies and they had to share me. 
 
They were very closely bonded to each other, I didn't exist while they were together. 

Puppies need one on one time for training, bonding and exercising. They need all of your attention while they are growing/maturing, If they do not get individual time then they will become very close to each other and choose each other over you. 

Puppies are also very expensive, shots, toys, spay/neuter and training. 

Also, you have 2 females that are the same age, that can be a HUGE problem. Same sex aggression is common in the breed and female aggression is the worst. People say when females fight, they will fight till the death. They do not forgive and forget. If problems arise and the dogs do not get along when they are both mature, will you be able to keep them safely apart and crate and rotate for the rest of their lives?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Regarding teaching their names, I would work with each one individually. Get a handful of the best treats she likes and say her name, when she looks at you treat her! Over and over and over. You have to do this individually or it will confuse them. 

You should be working with each one individually anyways when you train. Yes, having more than one female can be a huge PIA. We have three and I will never do it again. However, I wouldn't get to worried about it unless you run into problems. There are so many other issues with having two puppies that need to be worked on first.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

ponyfarm said:


> On the question of teaching them their names..the current names are too similiar. You need to use a different starting consonant and different vowel. For example,two names in same household are : Toby and Willy. Ed and Tim. Ted and Lass. Etc. Good luck.


I will keep it in mind! The last name choice was MUCH closer lol


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> If you can take video of it, many of could probably comment on it. GSDs sound scary when they play, there is a lot of biting, growling and tumbling around. It takes some getting used to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are a lot of videos of them on YouTube, the domain name there is also spazzydots, or you can look up Kira and Calli and some should pop up. 
So far I think it is just play, but I was concerned that their current play could lead to aggression later? They play really well with other dogs, no nipping even! But with each other they nip a lot :/ 

I know  I am working on it slowly! It is so hard to be away from them. I have been leaving them alone for a couple hours at a time. But I really need to get a 2nd kennel, I have been looking for one. And I need to work on crating them over night. I have been naughty on a lot of the basic rules, but they don't do anything over night. They sleep and sometimes get up and move to another location and sleep more. 

I have to work on getting them separate more, I think a 2nd crate will allow me to kennel one and then take the other to the park and then switch. 

They have already gotten most of their shots, I really don't care about the expenses. I will figure it out, if needed my dad will help me. (he loves them!) My main concern is that they get along/develop into "good" dogs. Etc, the money is the least of my concerns.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I raised 2 littermates at the same time and it was EXTREMELY difficult and I would never do it again, I was only working part time when I was raising them.
> 
> One puppy caught on to tricks and training fast while the other one was slower and required more time and more training but because my time was split between them, the slower puppy didn't get the amount of training she should have gotten.
> I think it was unfair to split my time between them, they both deserved to have me all to themselves while they were puppies and they had to share me.
> ...


I just graduated from college, and am doing NOTHING...lol...by choice, taking some time off, so they really have my full attention. And honestly they have not been difficult yet, they are picking up on stuff quickly. When I walk them, they want to get bunnies/birds/squirrels and I am teaching them to sit and watch stuff instead of pouncing at them. 

Knowing everything I know now, I would not get two again, but this is where I currently am. And I know you all can understand that it is hard to even consider giving up a dog. I realize it could happen, but I truly want to keep them both....

And they have not, yet, over bonded with each other. They always seek me out, no matter where they are, if they are in the yard, and I walk into the house to grab something, at least one of them immediately comes to find me. 

Once again the money does not concern me, I can figure that part out. It is just really not an issue. 

If it came to that I could do it. But in reality if it was that bad I would rehome one of them, crate and rotate is just not a way to live 

Also you live in IL! I don't know if there is a way to private message you, but would you be willing to talk more about how you, I assume, successfully raised two siblings? Also I assume you have a boy and a girl, because you make it sound like same sex is really bad idea!


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

Doing things separately with each of them is so important that it is absolutely critical for their emotional and mental development. Puppies that stay together bond to one another and it is quite a challenge to help them develop as individuals rather than as a pair.

In the last basic obedience class that I attended, one couple showed up with two GSD littermates, 12 weeks old. Everyone there tried to tell them that they really should not have gotten two littermates, but you could not get anywhere with this couple. They showed up for several weeks and the puppies absolutely SCREAMED when they were separated across the concrete slab of the building. They could still see and hear oneanother, but it made no difference. They SCREAMED for the entire hour of the class every time that they came. We also learned that these two dogs lived outside together and slept in the same dog house. While they certainly had their basic physical needs met (food, water and shelter), keeping them together made their ownership a huge challenge for this couple. Unfortunately, they stopped coming to class about half way through. 

If you really want to make this work, you need to find separate activities and training time for each dog. Putting them in separate crates would also help. Please feed them separately too. Later on, as adults, they may be fine together as two spayed females that are bonded and can live together. As babies, right now your best bet is to help them develop their individual personalities and temperaments so that you can have two littermates that you enjoy simultaneously. Being soft and easy on them now as cute puppies may have dire consequences later, so please be firm and help them be individuals. This is especially a concern with their Husky influence.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

spazzydots said:


> Also you live in IL! I don't know if there is a way to private message you, but would you be willing to talk more about how you, I assume, successfully raised two siblings? Also I assume you have a boy and a girl, because you make it sound like same sex is really bad idea!


Yes, you can PM me. 

I had a boy named Capone and a girl named Kahlua, they are Chow/Rott/Lab/Border Collie mixes.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> You should be working with each one individually anyways when you train. Yes, having more than one female can be a huge PIA. We have three and I will never do it again. However, I wouldn't get to worried about it unless you run into problems. There are so many other issues with having two puppies that need to be worked on first.


Did you have them all as puppies? Older? How did you end up with three, what was the age spacing. 
Trust me, what I know now, never again, but...this is where I am. 
I love them both, and truly want to make it work, saying that I know the want and desire are not enough to force it to work. Dogs will be dogs


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

WVGSD said:


> Doing things separately with each of them is so important that it is absolutely critical for their emotional and mental development. Puppies that stay together bond to one another and it is quite a challenge to help them develop as individuals rather than as a pair.
> 
> In the last basic obedience class that I attended, one couple showed up with two GSD littermates, 12 weeks old. Everyone there tried to tell them that they really should not have gotten two littermates, but you could not get anywhere with this couple. They showed up for several weeks and the puppies absolutely SCREAMED when they were separated across the concrete slab of the building. They could still see and hear oneanother, but it made no difference. They SCREAMED for the entire hour of the class every time that they came. We also learned that these two dogs lived outside together and slept in the same dog house. While they certainly had their basic physical needs met (food, water and shelter), keeping them together made their ownership a huge challenge for this couple. Unfortunately, they stopped coming to class about half way through.
> 
> If you really want to make this work, you need to find separate activities and training time for each dog. Putting them in separate crates would also help. Please feed them separately too. Later on, as adults, they may be fine together as two spayed females that are bonded and can live together. As babies, right now your best bet is to help them develop their individual personalities and temperaments so that you can have two littermates that you enjoy simultaneously. Being soft and easy on them now as cute puppies may have dire consequences later, so please be firm and help them be individuals. This is especially a concern with their Husky influence.


I appreciate your advice on keeping them together so much! I have read all the information I can find on two, and I realize it can be a lot of work and difficult etc. But I really appreciate the advice on how to make it work. 

I am currently searching for a 2nd kennel. I have been working on walking them around the block by themselves. While leaving the other one in the yard. The one on the leash is fine, the one by themselves is a little troubled. But they are getting better at it! I think they are learning they we all come back to the house. 
My girls separate themselves a lot. They have access to three rooms on the first floor of the house, and generally sleep in separate rooms. When I have them in the car they sleep together on the same seat, but it is only because the air conditioning is blowing (that is where a lot of the pictures in the album come from, but in reality they generally sleep separately.)

Also! With feeding, do GSD generally eat all at once, or pick at their food? My girls pick at their food all day long, but they hardly eat the "recommended" amount of food they need. It is high quality food, and ranks really well in "dog food ranking scales". But generally they might make it through 2 cups each a day. (Our vet said they should each be eating closer to 3, but not to make them eat, they will eat if they are hungry) Because they pick at their food, I have just left their food out throughout the day, and they will pick at it as they are hungry. 

I know I have to enforce rules more, well I have to develop the rules I know they should be behaving by. I am working on it, I promise! They sit for any and all treats they get, they sit to have their collars put on to go for walks, they sit at the porch gate until I open it and tell them to come. Puppies are a constant project and I am working on it


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

spazzydots said:


> Did you have them all as puppies? Older? How did you end up with three, what was the age spacing.
> Trust me, what I know now, never again, but...this is where I am.
> I love them both, and truly want to make it work, saying that I know the want and desire are not enough to force it to work. Dogs will be dogs


We had two litter mates (opposite sex). The boy died in an accident at 5 years old. Banshee is now 12 years old. So, we got Sierra who is 5 years old now. And I have Jax who will be 4 this year. The boxers never really had an issue. I think because Banshee was so much older than her when we got her that she might view Banshee as her 'mother'. Sierra has an issue with Jax which has escalated into stitches for Sierra. Those two can NEVER be left alone together. We do watch them closely but it is a battle to prevent all fights from happening. Once it starts, it rarely ends with one fight when there are two females. But there are ppl out there with multiple females that don't have an issue.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

I appreciate all your comments and advice, even if I am replying with other points of view.
There is just so much information out there it is overwhelming! And information from both sides of the isle on everything. 

If anyone is local and willing to meet up/see how the girls interact/give advice etc I would love to consider it. Depending on where about you are! I am just outside of Chicago. 

Or even play dates for the dogs 
Or advice on places to take them for day trips 

PM me with anything you feel the need to.

I appreciate this online support community  
My next mission for the girls is to find a 2nd kennel, that way I can stop being lax about overnight kenneling and really start to do it! 

Thanks so much everyone

Alyssa


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

spazzydots said:


> Also! With feeding, do GSD generally eat all at once, or pick at their food? My girls pick at their food all day long, but they hardly eat the "recommended" amount of food they need. It is high quality food, and ranks really well in "dog food ranking scales". But generally they might make it through 2 cups each a day. (Our vet said they should each be eating closer to 3, but not to make them eat, they will eat if they are hungry) Because they pick at their food, I have just left their food out throughout the day, and they will pick at it as they are hungry.
> 
> I know I have to enforce rules more, well I have to develop the rules I know they should be behaving by. I am working on it, I promise! They sit for any and all treats they get, they sit to have their collars put on to go for walks, they sit at the porch gate until I open it and tell them to come. Puppies are a constant project and I am working on it


Do you free feed or do you feed on a schedule? How many meals do they get a day?

Are you using NILIF for training?


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> Do you free feed or do you feed on a schedule? How many meals do they get a day?
> 
> Are you using NILIF for training?


Right now free feeding. They hardly eat otherwise! 

I am working on it! Just reading up on it again, it has been a long time since I have had a puppy


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

spazzydots said:


> Right now free feeding. They hardly eat otherwise!
> 
> I am working on it! Just reading up on it again, it has been a long time since I have had a puppy


If you can you should really put them on a feeding schedule that way you know when they eat, how much they are eating and you can figure out if one of them isn't eating enough.

When my boy was a pup he got 3 cups 3 times a day. 1 at breakfast, 1 at lunch and 1 at dinner.

You really dont want your puppies playing/exercising 1 hour prior and 1 hour after eating, bloat can occur.


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## Gracie's My Girl (May 27, 2011)

I could not imagine having the energy to give two puppies adequate attention. While I am sure that others have done it successfully, I am sure that it is incredibly challenging. 

As for teaching them their names, the trainer in our puppy class gave us a tip. Call the puppy's name and then reward with a treat when they respond. We have been doing this with Gracie for about a week and she has responded really well.


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## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

That really surprises me that they dont want to eat right. Normally the competition between the pups almost forces them to inhale food so the other cant get theres. My mother and I both got a female pup from the same litter and initially we lived in seperate households. We had our pups for about 2 months and then I had a situation come up to where I needed to move in with my mother for a little while. So we have pretty much have been raising two female littermates together. They had a little trouble getting along at first but everything has been pretty smooth since. They are 8 months old now and no real fights have occured. They do get a little chippy sometimes when one gets too rough. We do seperate activities with them. On the weekends my pup comes out with me and my mothers goes with her. My pup sleeps in my room while my mother's sleeps in her crate. They do get alot of playing time with each other but they are in no way attached to each other. My pup is attached to me and mother's is attached to her. I would say the best thing we got out of raising these two together was the biting(on me) almost completely stopped and it was pretty much immediately. But sometime soon, they will be seperated from each other as I will be moving back out in the next few months.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

*Update on the girls *

So they are officially two years old in three days! :wub:
Already ordered their birthday cake (Happy Dog Barkery in Downers Grove IL highly recommended!)
I attached a picture of last years cake, should be at the bottom. 
Same cake but different frosting color this year. 
Peanut Butter cake for pups (and liver, and some other one)

Anyways
Still Kira and Calli, and WONDERFUL dogs. 
I reread through this entire posting, and cannot believe I was ever worried about them :blush:
We found out that they are not Husky, but GSD and Anatolian Shep mixes (which is part Mastiff)
And they play much more like Anatolian Sheps than GSD. 

They went through training, and both do tricks and such for treats, still a little hard headed when they is no incentive. But very good girls, always a work in progress. 

Each weigh 80lbs. (although they still act like lap dogs! I guess no one informed them that they grew up! :laugh: )
And eat maybe a cup or two of food a day (they have the option to eat more, but I am not forcing them to eat 5+ cups of food a day) (food for both of them, including treats cost me about $70 a month, all bought at Costco!) Simply put, they are healthy with gorgeous coats. The vets are always amazed at how great they look. (Spay Illinois has local clinics that offer low price meds and vets, seriously their YEARLY meds cost under $200 for both of them, including the vet clinic visit, I highly recommend them)

So walking two 80lbs dogs, that are just about pure muscle is not always an easy task. 
They have these amazing harnesses from Wiggles Wags & Whiskers
I did a lot of research, and decided that choke collars were not something I wanted for my pups. 
I got the harnesses at about 6 months, I got the XL size, which is fully adjustable, so slightly big at first. 
But they have grown into them. 
And it has made life much easier. 
If they catch a bunny before me, they sometimes are able to jerk me a little. but I tell them to leave it and they do try (through their puppy excitement!)

One of the bigger issues was Kira used to resource guard as a puppy, but anytime she did that, I took whatever she was guarding away from her (and it would be gone at least a week before reintroducing it) So neither of them resource guards (toys, treats, food, water, anything)
We have other dogs over here frequently that try to hoard their toys (which there are a million of) and the girls are more than willing to share, and just curious what the other dog is trying to do! 

They do have a million toys, they love ripping stuffed animals to shreds! 
So they have "toy mountain" which is just a huge pile of toys, and I do believe that having so many has allowed them to realize there is enough for both of them. (dogsupplies.com is a WONDERFUL company out of North Carolina, that sells to the public at wholesale pricing, small company of 4 or 5 guys and they are all AMAZING! And they can and WILL special order products! seriously what companies still do that!)
And occasionally https://doggyloot.com/invite/c6ccb8 which is like groupon for dog stuff, great deals!

And they are very different dogs. 
They look almost identical. 
But Calli is very laid back, and would spend her entire life outside if she could. 
Kira is a bit more high strung, and loves it inside. 

Anyways, just wanted to thank everyone who weighed in on this topic. 
It was helpful to get all the different points of view. 
And in the end, everyone has to do what works for them, what worked for me may or may not work for anyone else. 
But I figured I would update everyone. And throw out all my affordable recommendations for having two spoiled dogs!
Also they socialize with other dogs all the time, and VERY WELL! 
That's all I got, but so far so good 

Thanks to everyone once again, I followed some advice, but not all of it.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

*A few photos*

They reason they came home together is because they have been a pair from the start. out of the litter of 8 they have always been together. 

One is from winter, they LOVE the snow. 

And one is with harnesses, in the car, going somewhere. 

:wub:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They are adorable.


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks 
They are truly amazing pups.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Awwwww, happy birthday, sweet girls!


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks!
I will post pictures of the newest cake and birthday hats after the birthday!
(because yes I torture them with hats and costumes! haha, they are great sports!)


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Happy Birthday Kira and Calli!!! Great looking girls. We went the litter mate route too, Our girls will be 3 in July.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Aw, they are really sweet looking dogs. Happy Birthday!


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Great looking dogs...it's good to hear positive stories...


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

*Birthday Eve Cookies*

So went to pick up the cake and saw cute flower cookies for a buck fifty! 

So Birthday Eve Cookies! 

Thanks for all the birthday wishes


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## spazzydots (Aug 8, 2011)

*as promised birthday cake pics!*

Just pictures. 

:wub:


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