# A service dog attacked my shepherd.



## StephenV (Jan 16, 2006)

I don't understand this, but here are the facts.
Today my wife and I had a lunch date with a friend we adopted our shepherd (Sophie) from 3 years ago. Naturally we brought Sophie so they could see each other again (our friend had in turn rescued Sophie from a bad situation, but was not in a position to keep her).
Anyway we arrived early before our friend did. The restaurant had outside tables which is where we went to sit. I saw one other group of people at a far table so I immediately picked the table farthest away so my dog would not disturb them and vice versa.We sat down for a bit and I put my dog in a lay down beside me. Unfortunately, the sun was pretty bright and this table did not have a working umbrella for shade for Sophie. My wife suggested another table closer to the other group of people (about 10 feet from them). She pointed out the umbrella worked at this one. She couldn't get it to stay open tho so I went over to help her (bringing Sophie on her lead). It's a blur at this point. A golden retriever silently runs out from underneath the table where the group was sitting and jumps on the back of Sophie and starts biting down on her. 
So my dog's in front of me, the retriever is on the other side biting down on top of my dog and my wife is on the retriever's side. It has aharness on with a large handle affixed to it. So I assume it was a seeing eye dog. I can't reach the handle because it was angled away from me but I grab the retriever by both sides of the neck and pull the dog off. At this point my wife is yelling GET THE DOG GET THE DOG and the other people come to grab their dog. Then there's this moment of perfect clarity where time stops where I find myself trying to pull my dog by one hand and her leash in the other hand away from the fight and I can't - because my wife ALSO has grabbed the leash and is standing next to the retriever in a tug of war with me. I yell LET GO OF THE LEASH. Well, my wife was frozen and would NOT let go. So I have to yank the leash out of her hands so hard I fall backwards into a planter.
So now I am sitting in a planter with my butt soaking wet with black dirt but we have separated the dogs. 
Other than hurt feelings and a wad of fur my dog was ok. She never made a sound or attempted to defend herself. I didn't approach the other group. We went back to the far table, swapped umbrellas and sat down. A few incredulous people came up and asked questions. The other group never came up or apologized, they left a few minutes later. My dog had little enthusiasm for sticking around but to her credit settled back down. 
As I write this it is still going through my mind. What went wrong? How could I have prevented this? Why do other dogs attack my dog (this is at least the 5th unprovoked time in the 3 years I've had her). Why won't my dog defend herself?
Analyzing this I realize I was preoccupied by a task (looking up away from the ground and using my hands to fix the umbrella). But really how could I have stopped an unseen dog attacking from 10 feet away. Still I know it's my job to protect my dog and I feel I let her down.
I thought all service dogs were proofed against aggression of this type.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:What went wrong?


The training and testing this service dog had. Someone dropped the ball. It's true that dogs will be dogs but this just sounds a little over the top for the amount of testing and trialing that these dogs go through. I am glad your dog is okay. I would have gone back up to them and gotten information about where that dog came from, contacted authorities, something, as that dog really needs to go back to be evaluated.

Of course, it's also VERY possible that the owners of the dog were faking it regarding the service dog harness. It happens. Also, maybe it was just a harness with a handle on it and the dog wasn't a service dog but a pet. It's a shame they didn't even have the decency to apologize.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I think you witnessed people who put a service dog harness on their dog so the dog could gain access to restricted places where only SDs are allowed. The failure to apologize is key here. 

I don't know why your dog keeps getting attacked - 5 in 3 years isn't too bad in my opinion if you're taking her out all the time. Why she doesn't fight back could be you, she may be expecting you to defend her which you did. She settled back down, so that's good, she didn't whine and shake and try to pull you out of there so I wouldn't say it's a sign of weakness.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

Is your dog okay? I would ask if the restaurant owners know who the person is or can at least contact them through the credit card receipts (if paid this way). You would want to know if the other dog was up to date on their shots. I'm so sorry to hear of this tragedy.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Oh gosh sounds like Sophie is just a dear dog! Hope she is okay.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Hope this never happens again but if it does pull off the other dog first. I was told once that if my dogs got into it to pull off the dog I was willing to sacrifice. Sure enough it's true. The dog I grabbed got the worse of it. Well, actually I think I got the worse of it, but 
what can you do?


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## StephenV (Jan 16, 2006)

Thank you guys,
Sometimes I think Sophie is too sweet for her own good but I guess that is preferable to rising to every invitation to a fight which could turn into a mess.
I talked this over with my wife more and she said the other people told her they were sorry when she was by them (but they did not approach me)
Also she confirmed that one of the people looked/acted sight impaired.
The other dog looked like he maybe didn't know what to do after the first blast of aggression, that gave me just enough time to grab and pull him off and not get bit myself.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Although a service dog and should be thoroughly trained.... still a dog. Who knows what went on in its head?


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Could also be a SDIT (Service Dog in Training).


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

IMHO, it does not matter whether this was a Service Dog or SDIT.

Service Dogs and SDITs are, and should be, held to much higher standards than your average pet dogs because they are required to be out in public, focused on their tasks, while they are with the person they are helping. They are required to pass other dogs without veering off to investigate, and most definitely they're required to behave well and not run out from under a table to attack another, leashed dog.

It's dogs like the one encountered by the OP who are the cause of businesses all but interrogating handlers and their (well-trained) SD's after having an experience like this, and it's dogs like this who make fake service dog registries like SARA do booming business by offering "service dog ID" cards.

*sigh*

I think this is a sad situation all around and I'm both shocked and angry that the people at the table with the service dog did not go to immediately grab the dog when it moved out from under the table, and did not come over to the OP and his wife to apologize profusely and offer to pay any vet bills if there were any injuries to their dog.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks goodness Sophie is ok. I think she is a great dog, the way she behaved, and you must be a good owner too, since Sophie left it to you to defend her. Having said that.... is it bad for me to also say I chuckled a little over the part about you sitting in the planter?


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## StephenV (Jan 16, 2006)

Not at all, that's the one thing about the experience I can laugh about and am happy to share. You just don't expect how turned around things can get - one second everything's normal, then you're flailing around getting busted up in a dog fight. My wife ended up with a bruise on her knee from the other dog's harness but otherwise I guess we were lucky.
Because my dog turned out to be ok (believe me, that's the first thing we checked), I didn't take it up with the other party. The sad things is I bet that if I had, the restaurant might ban dogs altogether and then that's one less place I can take my dog in public. It happened at another place nearby already that I used to frequent with my dog - I was informed by the waitress that dogs were no longer allowed. Sigh.
I used to not think twice about bringing my dog to dog-friendly outside eating areas, but now you never know about the other dogs there.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You never can be 100 percent sure about anyone else's dog.

Handicapped people are human too and they may be rude or ignorant too. I am not saying this is the case, but just because someone has a seeing eye dog or an assistance dog, does not mean that the human part of the team is an angel. 

My guess is that this was not the first attack by this dog. (I think first attacks generally draw that shocked response where the people do a lot of appologizing and explaining that the dog has never done anything like this before and all of that.) I think the speedy retreat was done in order to avoid the passing of information and the possibility that you may want them to pay your dog's vet bill. 

So either the dog was an imposter, OR the owner did absolutely no follow up work with the dog. I am guessing that the schools that pair dogs to people will give you a pretty expicit list of dos and don'ts but they cannot be right there to ensure that the list is being followed. So I suppose that it is possible that the dog is a victim of its environment.


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## Papanapa (Mar 1, 2008)

Poor Sophie!! She must be a real sweetheart and have full faith in you to take care of her. Lucky for her, you did your job and protected her.

The other dog owner should have at least spoke to you and exchanged information in case something came up later. If they left that quickly, it makes me think they had something to hide. Like a previous problem with their dog and another dog??


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Hey guys, service dogs are dogs first and foremost. Everyone of us has had a day where our best behaved and thoroghly trained canine companions do something that totally disregards any command we've given them. Service dogs(especially those who do guide work) are actually trained to use their own instincts in a situation and override commands from their handlers.
The guide dog may have sensed some threat from you, or your wife, and chose to take it out on your dog. Who actually knows? I think my second foster emitted hormones that told other dogs that they could attack her. I used to place her between my legs when I saw a dog coming. I swear they would search her out!!! Got bit a couple of times doing that!
I never knew what caused dogs to go after her. Maybe it was my problem, and I was sending out bad vibes.
With all that rambling, if one of the guides that I raise may poss. have a dog issue, the handler is well informed and instructed on how to keep the dog under control. Fidelco is good about that, but I don't know what other Guide schools teach their clients. I also think that it is completly inhuman of them not to apologize, and to explain the situation. It sounds like it may have been a ill matched pair, and that is never good. My fosters were placed with handlers that adore them, and I know that the two who are working guides obey because they repect and love those they are looking after.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

There used to be a man around my neighborhood who had a guide dog (GSD). Whenever his dog would see my dog the guide dog would start barking and lunging on the harness. Usually it was across the street from us when it saw us. I don't know what was wrong there but it seemed like a very dangerous thing! It was definitely not a "fake" service dog either. We made sure to stay far away if we saw them. 
If there is a problem like this I think the dog needs to be sent "back to school" immediately... I know someone who had a service dog and she took him back for more training because he would not always listen to her especially if there was a person nearby, he was so friendly he would want to greet people when he was supposed to be working.


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Hey, it happens. A foster who has been in the control of a family who knows how to diffuse situations, then given back to a professional trainer, who can also control rather nicely, then given to a person who relies completely on that dog. (I'm horrified to say that without the proper transition period; Fidelco trains dog and new handler in their own enviroment for 3 weeks, and then does monthly rechecks for 1 year; some of my own fosters would take complete control of the situation.)
I absolutly agree that this situation can be dangerous, but the dog shouldn't be sent back to school. The handler should be taught how to work with the dog. Just because they're guides doesn't mean that they don't need direction. They need to know that their only job is to guide. That is not possible in these dogs if the handler is timid. They become way overprotective, and begin to save an unsure handler from anything that may disturb them. This is what they are trained to do.
Everyone seems to want to blame the dog, but we're forgetting who is attached to the leash. (or harness)


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Quote:It has aharness on with a large handle affixed to it. So I assume it was a seeing eye dog.


Silver_Sable, these harnesses can be purchased at numerous places by anyone. I just went to one Internet Source and for $45.95 you can purchase the harness (leather) and add $16.95 you can buy the high handle. Add tax and S&H and you can see the total package is well under $100. The only info they ask is your name, address, and credit card number. 

Not saying the dog you saw was not a Guide Dog but just wearing a harness with a large handle doesn't mean as much as it did years ago. I had a co-worker last week ask where he could buy one with the shorter version (still hard handle) to use for more control on his dog with a pulling problem.


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## StephenV (Jan 16, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Seeing that harness on just added insult to injury. 
I'll have to be more thorough in looking for dogs when there are other people at outdoor seating areas from now on when I have my GSD. 

BJDimock, I believe you about the "hormone" thing. There does seem to be something about my GSD that invites punk behavior from other dogs. Probably it's those crucial first seconds when they face each other. It's hard to say tho. I have seen her react differently to different dogs. Indifference, excitement, jealousy, nervousness, and defensiveness, but never hostility.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Silver_Sable
> I'll have to be more thorough in looking for dogs when there are other people at outdoor seating areas from now on when I have my GSD.


I think this is a good lesson for all dog owners who take their dogs into public. When I read your initial post, the one thing that I noticed is that there were four humans in the picture, but with you and your wife dealing with the umbrella, and the other couple not paying attention to their dog, we had two dogs that no one was paying 100% attention to.

When I bring my dog into public, I am always very aware of everything that is going on around us. I prepare ahead of time so that I'm not digging through my bag for my keys, and I choose my seating before I walk over to the table, having scouted out which table and chair looks most appropriate in terms of having adequate space for my dog, with room for people to pass by (since I can't push my chair in all the way when he's lying under the table), and is there anyone around that might be an issue -- a child that's not being well supervised, someone that's giving me a look that says they are afraid of my dog (or that they're just DYING to pet my dog), or yes, someone else with a dog, whether it's a pet or another SD. 

Dogs have personal space. We work on it a lot in training, but we can't completely train it out of them. You said that what happened "was a blur." It's possible that maybe someone got into that SD's personal space or startled him. I'm not blaming anyone. Certainly the person with a disability should be keeping up on her dog's training, and it appears that she is not doing so. 

But when we take our dogs into public, we have to be aware, which means anticipating what could happen. If we get distracted, we're not aware. And that's when things can go wrong. 

Sometimes, things can go wrong in spite of our best efforts. But it helps when we are paying close attention to what's going on. I've just learned to take nothing for granted. 

JMO.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Not all the time, but normally, accidents happen due to a series of events involving two or more individuals, any one of which might of prevented the problem. 

ie. if they were watching their dog, if you were aware of their dog, etc. Sometimes it leads into a bunch of should've would've could've stuff that doesn't do us any good. But it drives home the fact that if we, ourselves are more proactive we can avoid nasty issues regardless to how irresponsible people are. 

Two people go for a walk with their dog, different times, different places. One is charged and attacked and nasty vet bills followed. The other is also detected by a questionable dog, but the way the person carried herself and was aware of the other dog, there was no confrontation.


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