# Brown patches on coat



## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

Not sure whether this is normal, since we've never seen this before but recently noticed Rocky now as a few brown patches on his coat which was otherwise primarily black. Our first sable and we haven't come across this before.

Haven't got a decent picture but here's one I took earlier today.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I'm wondering, due to its position on his body, if its a friction rub. My dog's coat is slightly messed in about that spot from leaning against the seat when he rides in the car.


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## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

Dunkirk said:


> I'm wondering, due to its position on his body, if its a friction rub. My dog's coat is slightly messed in about that spot from leaning against the seat when he rides in the car.


It could be? I mean sometimes he goes so crazy during play he does tend to fall over and that very area gets rubbed up.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

How old is he? Sables change colour a lot as they mature.

Also, it's shedding season right now, so the patch could be undercoat that is shedding out...[blows dog hair off computer keyboard...]


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

So I swear every time I see your pup's picture I do a massive double take! Something about him in addition to the very similar coloring just is so familiar 

I digress, Hudson had this exact thing happen over the summer on his back near the spot in the picture you posted. He had some dry skin likely due to his refusal to get out of our saltwater pool (LOL) and was scratching pretty hard - when we couldn't stop him. Hudson actually had much bigger blotch of reddish/light brown showing through I was sure he was morphing into a light light sable gsd or destroying his coat. We started giving him hydrating baths (the things we do for these dogs, I must be crazy haha) and the scratching has ceased and subsequently those spots have darkened up quite a bit. Hudson also has been deprived of his pool time with fall (slowly) approaching so I'm sure that contributed a great deal! 

So I just went and looked at some random pictures from when Hudson first came home with us (unexpectedly I might add, we went to what we thought was a reputable breeder of working line gsds and turns out they had mishandled the puppies - kept five puppies locked in a crate all night (ten puppies total - 2 crates, horrible) and Hudson had a badly infected leg bite from one of his siblings. We didn't even have a check on us or a leash or anything... but he was coming with us no matter what!!) and his color lightened up so much in general in July and August and since mid-August has darkened back to what it was when he bumbled through our front door for the first time. 

Hopefully you can tell from the pictures the progression of dark to light to dark, but also where he got a little carried away with the itching mid-summer. In general, I am astounded at how his coat color fluctuates - don't get me wrong, I think it's beautiful but depending on the light, time of year, "scratch-depth" (haha), it seems like the range has wider and wider limits. Anyways - love seeing pictures of Rocky - hope this helped somewhat!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

when you run your hand over the area is there a difference in texture?

it could be a tuft of undercoat from shedding where the top coat hasn't broken through -- or it could be
damaged layer of the top coat revealing the under coat .

why would the top coat layer be damaged? 

nibbling . The dog nibbling at some area where he has an irritation.

the dog is lying in a sphinx position. The picture shows the dog's conformation . He can't lay flat - belly to the
ground and there is quite an arch to the back -- tension.

the spot is right at the peak of the arch.

he may have a nerve which is tingling , a little muscle spasm, and so he nibbles . 

when he is standing take your thumb and put some pressure onto this spot. You may see some flicking muscle along the spine area .


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## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

carmspack said:


> when you run your hand over the area is there a difference in texture?
> 
> it could be a tuft of undercoat from shedding where the top coat hasn't broken through -- or it could be
> damaged layer of the top coat revealing the under coat .
> ...


I can't really tell much of a difference between his coat and the patch honestly. I pressed on the area and at times he'd turn around and look and others he wouldn't react at all. Though I did check his downs closely again and you're right, his his belly doesn't touch the floor anymore. I'm guessing this explains the reason why he's reluctant to down in public now, because up until recently he'd have no problem following through with it whatsoever. Will need to have him checked out by our vet, thanks for that appreciate it!


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## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

bkernan said:


> So I swear every time I see your pup's picture I do a massive double take! Something about him in addition to the very similar coloring just is so familiar
> 
> I digress, Hudson had this exact thing happen over the summer on his back near the spot in the picture you posted. He had some dry skin likely due to his refusal to get out of our saltwater pool (LOL) and was scratching pretty hard - when we couldn't stop him. Hudson actually had much bigger blotch of reddish/light brown showing through I was sure he was morphing into a light light sable gsd or destroying his coat. We started giving him hydrating baths (the things we do for these dogs, I must be crazy haha) and the scratching has ceased and subsequently those spots have darkened up quite a bit. Hudson also has been deprived of his pool time with fall (slowly) approaching so I'm sure that contributed a great deal!
> 
> ...


LOL yeah they both look very similar, haven't seen Hudson's pictures lately, how old is he now and how's he doing? I admit I've been pretty lazy in taking pictures, and other times really just because he won't let me and they don't turn out good enough anyway. Though here's two I was able to get two nights ago!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

can you provide a picture of your dog standing - sideways - you don't have to set him up - just natural.

when you press on the area do this with a finger tip - like acupressure


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## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

carmspack said:


> can you provide a picture of your dog standing - sideways - you don't have to set him up - just natural.
> 
> when you press on the area do this with a finger tip - like acupressure


Will get one for you tomorrow, what are you looking for specifically? Also will try again tomorrow, thanks.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

well if I tell you now it might influence how the dog is posed ---

I want to just see the dog standing naturally , side view .

it is not for the sake of criticizing this dog - it is to understand what may be going on -- 
the patch might be the symptom , so what is the cause .


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

Ikigai said:


> bkernan said:
> 
> 
> > So I swear every time I see your pup's picture I do a massive double take! Something about him in addition to the very similar coloring just is so familiar
> ...


Yeah he?s doing great! Officially out of fear phase thank god and is quite a little landshark haha. He turned 8 months yesterday and is 71lbs. I think because my last shepherd was so big 105ish lbs it seems like Hudson is small but in a Manhattan apartment we will take it. I?m anxious to get running with him but know I need to wait for his growth plates to close somewhat. How big is rocky? Hudson is also chewing like Pac-Man around the apartment. Literally brings me a pile of stuff into my office and will go to town lol if I don?t take it away quick enough. 

How is rocky with other people? Hudson was def shy/fearful because of his horrible breeders but has since gotten over it thankfully.


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## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

bkernan said:


> Yeah he?s doing great! Officially out of fear phase thank god and is quite a little landshark haha. He turned 8 months yesterday and is 71lbs. I think because my last shepherd was so big 105ish lbs it seems like Hudson is small but in a Manhattan apartment we will take it. I?m anxious to get running with him but know I need to wait for his growth plates to close somewhat. How big is rocky? Hudson is also chewing like Pac-Man around the apartment. Literally brings me a pile of stuff into my office and will go to town lol if I don?t take it away quick enough.
> 
> How is rocky with other people? Hudson was def shy/fearful because of his horrible breeders but has since gotten over it thankfully.


Quite the opposite with Rocky really, he's been great with people, maybe a little more than I'd like him to be but yeah. A few weeks ago he mistook someone else in public for my mum and decided to go absolutely crazy, barking whining howling to want to go after the lady, sounding like I was abusing him. Though even though he's great with people, he needs work with other dogs. He's leash reactive towards other dogs.

Not looking forward to Rocky being big, guess he really is going to be taking after the Sire... At 5 months and 10 days old he weighed exactly 60lb, he's a few days shy of 6 months now, probably time to get him back on the scale. Thing is, he's always been on the skinnier side and he's weighed pretty much on point with the ideal if not more while staying this skinny.


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## Ikigai (Jun 26, 2017)

@carmspack
Sorry for the bad pictures, it's all I was able to get without help.


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

Ikigai said:


> bkernan said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah he?s doing great! Officially out of fear phase thank god and is quite a little landshark haha. He turned 8 months yesterday and is 71lbs. I think because my last shepherd was so big 105ish lbs it seems like Hudson is small but in a Manhattan apartment we will take it. I?m anxious to get running with him but know I need to wait for his growth plates to close somewhat. How big is rocky? Hudson is also chewing like Pac-Man around the apartment. Literally brings me a pile of stuff into my office and will go to town lol if I don?t take it away quick enough.
> ...


Yeah we worked on Hudson a lot with other dogs because of his idiotic breeder - legit wouldn?t walk down the street when we got him. We were so worried about weak nerves and ugh - thankfully the work is paying off. He?s improvjng every day and it?s just small dogs at this point that he?ll take a second glance at. 

Yeah I was so sure Hud was too skinny but he is one dense animal. Not even sure where the 70 lbs is. I need to measure his height so I can ask all the experts here their opinion on his future full grown size. Either way - he is so freakin athletic. Like I said doesn?t love strangers but will jump ten feet in the air spastic excited for the 7 people he adores. Hit my mother in law in the lip tonight in a fit of joy - that was fun. She took it in stride but clearly his OB needs work on that front - he just so infrequently likes people we don?t focus on it. How?s rocky with recall and OB? Hudson?s adolescent stage has kicked in and while 99 percent of time his recall is on point he will totally every once in a while give me the middle finger with his eyes and ignore me when given a ?here? command LOL. Never a dull moment


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks for the pictures.

honestly after having seen the pictures of the dog in the down "sphinx" position with that peak to his top line , I expected the natural side view standing pictures to show a dog with a roach .

his top line isn't bad .

he does appear to be a shallow bodied dog . This is a trait I am seeing more of recently , some very dramatically so .

body depth is important for organ space - 

so we need to ascertain what is going on .

there is no change to the texture of the hair?
there is no change to the depth of the hair - no nibble damage from stress releasing grooming.

** I had a male who when young and in his prime would worry-nibble his flank , one side only -- when
females came in to season --- he only "shaved" the guard hairs , never through the under coat , never
to the skin --- so being a darker sable , he looked looked like his flank was a sculpted carpet -- change in
colour and depth --- dark with an obvious brownish undercoat patch **

the dog has not come in to contact with human hair products -- lighteners , bleaches ?

physically , why is the dog tenting his back so much on the sphinx -- because you say this not being fully on the
ground is new ?

if you were to align the curious spot with an acupuncture diagram you would see that this spot sits at the bl 20 to 23
----- 21 ---- position which is the area of digestion --- SPLEEN ---

GSD having problems with spleen -- I would address digestive , liver , spleen and lymph through diet no matter what


I would take this dog to a vet for a thorough check - up

AND THEN I would take this dog to a canine acupuncturist for a work up --- all beneficial to get things moving along 

I have in the past tagged along with an equine acupuncturist and seen some pretty crazy remarkable changes


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