# Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser, 4 months



## Liesje

My puppy, Pan, 4 mos on 12/30. Please critique the puppy and/or the stacking!


















(I took myself out of that pic)



















Expression/face


















This is what he looked like 1.5 months ago, for comparison:


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## ZebsMommy

I can't believe how much the coat colors changed! Beautiful dog either way though


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## trish07

Ok...this is an unbeleiveable gorgeous dog!!!! :wub::wub::wub:


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## BlackthornGSD

Very nice stacks, although if you can get him (her?) panting a little, then a photograph with an open mouth is preferred for GSDs--makes the muzzle look a little squarer, I guess.

He's very slightly long in the loin in the youngest picture, but not as much so in the latest. Very slightly short in the croup and also very slightly short in the upper arm. But the shoulder angulation is gorgeous and he is very balanced overall in stance. Lovely long neck, too. How does he move?

Altogether, a very attractive and correctly built puppy. The change from a "red" puppy to a very dark (black?) sable is such a good example of how sable coloring can change very quickly.


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## KZoppa

wow! just wow! that color shift in such a short time is amazing every time i see it. he is a VERY handsome dog! he's one of those pups that looking at the pictures the first time just blows me away. Man i cant wait to see pictures of him as an adult!! i think the stack is great but compared to my attempts with my dogs, everyone does a better job lol. Wow what a good looking pup!


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## robinhuerta

He looks very nice Lies!
He should get the top show ratings in the classes..ie..VP, SG & V.
As long as he stays "correct" in the movement...should be no problem!
Congrats! I just love the sables!
Robin


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## cliffson1

Very nice looking pup that looks balanced and confident....sweet!!


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## Liesje

Thanks everyone! 

I'm not really sure how he moves. This conformation thing is not really my strong point. IMO he appears balanced but he's 4 months so his limbs are kind of shooting out all over the place, lol. I wish his mouth would open, but I setup those stacks AND took the pictures by myself, that's about as good as I can do alone with a 4 month puppy! As you can see I also have trouble getting his legs under him properly. I wish I could have someone call him from the front.

Robin I can't wait to show him! I've seen some pics of Carlos handling/stacking his father and some siblings, I hope he can handle Pan.


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## istie

They are fantastic pics, getting a 4mo pups to stand whilst you get pics! well done!

he looks lovely, good luck with him


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## wolfstraum

Nice job on the stack and photos! Very nice puppy - great color too!

Lee


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## FG167

Liesje said:


> I setup those stacks AND took the pictures by myself, that's about as good as I can do alone with a 4 month puppy! As you can see I also have trouble getting his legs under him properly. I wish I could have someone call him from the front.


I would love to help you out sometime. You could show me how to properly stack and I could also help with the photography - I have my camera and a tripod but no timer so it'd prob take both of us.


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## LaRen616

Oh my goodness!!!!!!

Pan is absolutely gorgeous! :wub::wub::wub:


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## 1sttimeforgsd

Pan is so very handsome!


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## DanielleOttoMom

All I have to say is "*WOW!!!* PAN IS *BEAUTIFUL*!!!!" I can't believe how much his/her coat has change in 1.5 months.


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## Rerun

No critique from me, but have to say he is absolutely gorgeous!


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## GSDOWNED

Beautiful puppy!!


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## robinhuerta

Lies,
Carlos said that he would love to help show Pan!
He's a fan of "Boy"...and has always liked & respected Jennifer & Bill. 
He also loves to bring excellent working line dogs to the ring as often as possible!!...a _personal_ *PLUS* for us.
Robin


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## Liesje

I was hoping to show him at the Sieger Show but it's too far, however there's so many shows in Chicagoland I am not worried. Maybe the next WDA Sieger Show will be closer. Hopefully my husband will help me ring train him a bit once the snow starts to melt.


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## LaRen616

Ok, you officially have a stalker. 

I cannot keep my mind off of your Pan. I had to come back to this thread and look at him again. He is honestly the most gorgeous puppy I have ever seen. 

I want my future puppy to be identical to your Pan. :wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:


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## Liesje

THanks! lol, I wanted a puppy identical to Pan's father.


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## LaRen616

Liesje said:


> THanks! lol, I wanted a puppy identical to Pan's father.


I am dead serious, he is absolutely gorgeous.


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## Liesje

You should contact the breeders, I like them a lot. There are in Illinois too. Very down to earth people, both have trained and competed at a high level. They raise and train great dogs, not just buy titled dogs for breeding or have other people title their dogs. Pan's father is not that old so I'm sure he has a long career ahead of him in sport and breeding. I've liked him since I first saw him (temperament, looks, conformation, working ability, etc) in person about two years ago. Pan is a great puppy, he's super confidence and very laid back. I don't like hyper, mouthy puppies and don't believe they need to be that way in order to be a great SchH dog.


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## LaRen616

Liesje said:


> You should contact the breeders, I like them a lot. There are in Illinois too. Very down to earth people, both have trained and competed at a high level. They raise and train great dogs, not just buy titled dogs for breeding or have other people title their dogs. Pan's father is not that old so I'm sure he has a long career ahead of him in sport and breeding. I've liked him since I first saw him (temperament, looks, conformation, working ability, etc) in person about two years ago. Pan is a great puppy, he's super confidence and very laid back. I don't like hyper, mouthy puppies and don't believe they need to be that way in order to be a great SchH dog.


Maybe in the future I can check them out. I do love how stunning Pan is. I expect to see weekly photos of him by the way. 

I already have my future pup's sire picked out. I am friends with the sire's breeder and I am going to visit him this month to meet all of his dogs and see his litter that is on the ground (thank goodness they are all spoken for, otherwise I might be tempted!). 

But I would love to have a puppy like Pan :wub:.


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## AgileGSD

That is one nice looking puppy! I really like his outline especially in the 2nd and 4rth pictures. He looks like a nicely balanced puppy. I prefer the head to be up, instead of pushed forward (his is a bit too forward in the first one IMO and very much too forward in the second) but otherwise I think you did a nice job on the stack.


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## LaRen616

Surprise, surprise, I am back on this thread again.

Gorgeous Pan, I must make you my desktop wallpaper.

:wub:


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## CaseysGSD

LOVE LOVE LOVE the markings on his feet!


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## Liesje

LaRen616 said:


> Surprise, surprise, I am back on this thread again.
> 
> Gorgeous Pan, I must make you my desktop wallpaper.
> 
> :wub:


HAha! Well, if you must have Pan, this one is nice! 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5224057013_cee0aeb617_o.png

I was walking him around at work today and noticed in the sunlight that his eyes have changed. They used to be this lighter, grayish brown (like in the pic above) and now they are chocolate brown.


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## LaRen616

Liesje said:


> HAha! Well, if you must have Pan, this one is nice!
> 
> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5285/5224057013_cee0aeb617_o.png
> 
> I was walking him around at work today and noticed in the sunlight that his eyes have changed. They used to be this lighter, grayish brown (like in the pic above) and now they are chocolate brown.


I cannot believe how much his color has changed in one month!

He has gorgeous eyes in that picture.

I think you should just give me Pan.


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## Deuce

Great job stacking!


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## LaRen616

Thank goodness someone else brought this thread back up!

I was going through Pan withdrawl! :crazy:


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## LaRen616

I'm baaaaack 

I think it's time for some more Pan pictures! :wub:

Please!


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## Castlemaid

Agree with you with that!


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## Liesje

Well, I tried to stack him the other day b/c he's getting bigger, but my lens is broken (out of focus) and he was really squirmy.









He's 6 months, 45lbs. LOVES bitework and the snow













































And, he's very fluffy!









Cartoon Pan


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## LaRen616

I LOVE him! :wub:

He is the most gorgeous GSD I have ever seen. 

This picture is officially my desktop wallpaper.









:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Thank you!


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## Rerun

I second that Laren...he is just drop dead gorgeous.


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## LaRen616

His eyes look so scary in this picture, like he's saying "I'm coming for you" :wild:


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## Liesje

Aw thanks! Here is a bigger one if it fits better: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/5445575217_dd179b1b01_o.jpg


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## Liesje

Here's his silly video barking like a fool at the "oven mitt"





Trying to be a smarty-pants






Is that enough Pan for you?


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## LaRen616

Liesje said:


> Aw thanks! Here is a bigger one if it fits better: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/5445575217_dd179b1b01_o.jpg


I am definitly Pan's biggest fan. 

Excellent pup you have there. I cant wait to watch him grow up and dominate everything you enter him in.


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## LaRen616

He's so smart! 

I giggled when he fell backwards.


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## Rosa

ohhhh i'm in love :wub: his colouring is just amazing! :wub::wub:


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## VaBeachFamily

Wow!!! Our female, Panzer, looks VERY much like the older picture of your pup.. I will be extremely pleased if she gets the darker sable look YEEEEEEE lol

Gorgeous pup. I am no good with conformation.


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## LaRen616

Pannnnnnnnnnnnnnn :wub:


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## VaBeachFamily

Oh.... and... I wish I could get Cullen to do anything near that. He has NOOOO drive... and not that entusiastic, even with treats...


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## Xeph

I have to say, I like him even MORE now. He's very nice, Lies!


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## GSDElsa

I can't believe how fast he is growing up! Holy moly!


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## Catu

I love how rich his colors are!! :wub:


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## Liesje

Thanks guys! If I can afford it (we're closing on a house!) I'd like to show him at the Classic in March. He's going to the vet on Monday for prelims and to get a tooth pulled. Please send "perfect scissor bite" vibes our way!

So far my favorite things about him are the rich red tones, his coat (pics never do justice but he's very fluffy with an amazing coat), and his front. I think he has a little bit better front than Nikon and is not east/west.

His prey drive is really coming alive now and he's so much fun! I can't wait until the teething saga is over and we can really play with toys.


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## GSDElsa

I've actually been thinking a lot about your tooth saga today for some reason! (probably because puppy is coming this summer and I'm already worried about stupid crap like this! Haha).


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## Liesje

Thanks! They're looking better today...I think? The upper canine is still pushing on down even with the retained one still there. I've been doing a bit of tug (TD said to let him bite frontal) to see if we can help things along. It doesn't seem to be making a difference BUT now his prey drive is really coming on and he will be loving tug once he's teethed!


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## VaBeachFamily

Can someone post a pic, side view of the front teeth.. of how it should be? I have been told I should show Cullen,a nd I want to, but I am freaking out about what I beleive is a pretty bad overbite!


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## onyx'girl

Onyx has a great set of chompers...I'll take pics and post them tomorrow if someone else doesn't beat me to it. It is one of her +'s, though not sure a good bite on a FA/anxious herding obsessed dog is a bonus! I wish Karlo had her mouth!! 
I should post Kacie's as well, hers is a complete mess and should have been fixed at teething. Poor girl.


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## VaBeachFamily

OK, well I am going to try to get one of Cullen's, since I need to upload new puppy pics anyhow.


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## Liesje

Correct bite










LOL Jane, my Coke also has a *perfect* bite! Go figure.


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## VaBeachFamily

Ouch... well I will get a photo of Cullen's. Worried, because would love to show, but I think his overbite would kill him in a ring


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## elisabeth_00117

Wow.. Lies, he is really coming along nicely!

You really are a great handler/trainer - excellent work!

He is simply stunning as well.. wow!


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## gabrieldresser

*Pan's Brother Pike*

Here are a couple of photos of his brother Pike (Rainbow Collar) He's just got all his permanent teeth (had to remove one canine) and now weighs 54 lbs.


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## Liesje

Yay Pike! They look very similar.


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## selzer

I do not even like the sables, but he is gorgeous. Very nice looking, great stack pictures, looks like he likes to have fun too.


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## FG167

I love Pan - got to play with him tonight and he is a gem!


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## LaRen616

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Pan :wub: Pike :wub:


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## Jason L

Liesje said:


> I've been doing a bit of tug (TD said to let him bite frontal) to see if we can help things along. It doesn't seem to be making a difference BUT now his prey drive is really coming on and he will be loving tug once he's teethed!


I did the same thing with Ike at that age LOL. Everyone told me not to tug with him during teething. And then when it became apparent that his bottom canines were NOT going to fall out on their owns (and his adult ones were almost done coming out), I started tugging with him like mad. And we tugged HARD ... pretty much with the expressed purpose of ripping those suckers out! Didn't work. I ended up having them pulled while we doing his elbow/hip prelim.

Next puppy I am going to completely forgo the no tugging rule. Heck, I may even just put the puppy on a hard trial sleeves and get all the teething "done" in one go


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## Liesje

It's not working for me either! Last night we were tugging like crazy after a while (ask Falon!) and it's making no difference. Oh well at least we can tug now! The vet appt. is scheduled for Monday, and the adult canine is still making its way down so I'm not really concerned. The right side which I was more concerned about is now looking better.


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## Catu

I love the last Pike picture because he has the same crazy eyes than his brother while running full speed.


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## LaRen616

I want both of them.

When he starts doing trials I am going to drive where you are and go see him perform.


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## Minnieski

Liesje I love his name! And his coat! And, pretty much everything else, lol! 

Did you get him from the same breeder as Nikon?


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## Jason L

Seriously, the more I think about the no tugging rule for pup (IF the pup is a SchH prospect), the dumber it sounds to me. A pup that won't bite anymore because he lost a few baby teeth while tugging ... well, let's just say that demonstrates a pretty serious "flaw" in temperament ... marshamallow soft ...


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## onyx'girl

I don't know, I'd rather not tug while the adult teeth are coming down. Sure, those little needles can come out, but I'd sure hate to move the permanent teeth then have more problems.
I didn't think the reason for not tugging was to have the pup never want to bite a sleeve if tugging hurt. I always thought it was so you didn't mess up the new alignment.

I don't really think tugging is going to get those baby teeth out any faster, a RMB would be better as far as working them out.


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## FG167

No one ever warned me about not tugging with Madix as a pup. I tugged with him ALL the time. I had to aim that monster mouth somewhere!


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## Liesje

Jason L said:


> Seriously, the more I think about the no tugging rule for pup (IF the pup is a SchH prospect), the dumber it sounds to me. A pup that won't bite anymore because he lost a few baby teeth while tugging ... well, let's just say that demonstrates a pretty serious "flaw" in temperament ... marshamallow soft ...


I just let the pup "direct" the tugging. If they counter, I counter, but not any harder than they are. Nothing ridiculous like swinging them through the air by their teeth. I haven't tugged with Pan up until this week because to be honest, he wasn't interested in it. Now, that's all he wants so by golly I'll give it to him! In the past few days, I've just been using it to encourage drive and get him frustrated, and it's been more about chasing and targeting than tugging (spend more time missing and NOT getting the tug than tugging it). Treat training is fun, but it gets expensive, and these new teeth HURT! He has always tugged with the dogs, sometimes so hard that I can't believe teeth aren't flying out!


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## Liesje

Minnieski said:


> Liesje I love his name! And his coat! And, pretty much everything else, lol!
> 
> Did you get him from the same breeder as Nikon?


Thanks! No he is from a different breeder. Nikon is a German show line and Pan is a German working line. The breeder I got Pan from was a breeder I was interested in before I got Nikon.


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## istie

Pan is stunning


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## Jason L

I swung puppy Ike on the tug pretty hard a couple times in an attempt to get the teeth out LOL. No luck. If I remember correctly, Ikie also scammed me out of a lot of raw marrow bones during that period ... 

Not getting the teeth out of alignment makes sense. I can see that.


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## Jason L

Liesje said:


> Now, that's all he wants so by golly I'll give it to him! In the past few days, I've just been using it to encourage drive and get him frustrated, and it's been more about chasing and targeting than tugging (spend more time missing and NOT getting the tug than tugging it). Treat training is fun, but it gets expensive, and these new teeth HURT! He has always tugged with the dogs, sometimes so hard that I can't believe teeth aren't flying out!


He is turning into a little beast!


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## Liesje

Pan has five marrow bones right now!


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## Jason L

Yea, that's what I was doing with Ike. Towards the end I was starting to suspect that the teeth were actually out and Ike just put them back in when I was around so I would give him more morrow bones. 

When is he going in for his prelim again?


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## Liesje

Monday. We started flyball last night so I'd like to do them sooner rather than later.


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## Jason L

I heard. I bet he had a blast!


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## Liesje




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## Jason L

That is so cool. Madix, Pan, and Nikon should just form a flyball team. Then all you need is a 10" tall height dog ....


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## FG167

Jason L said:


> That is so cool. Madix, Pan, and Nikon should just form a flyball team. Then all you need is a 10" tall height dog ....


Yes!!! Exactly what we need! Is this a pic of her on her way to me??


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## Liesje

OMG w/ Madix, Pan, and Nikon we definitely need a height dog like Dottie!


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## Jason L

Falon, if Dottie ever goes missing, I'll know exactly where to tell the authorities to look first ...


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## Vinnie

gabrieldresser said:


> Here are a couple of photos of his brother Pike (Rainbow Collar) He's just got all his permanent teeth (had to remove one canine) and now weighs 54 lbs.


Hey, I know Pike! :welcome:


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## FG167

Jason L said:


> Falon, if Dottie ever goes missing, I'll know exactly where to tell the authorities to look first ...


deal


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## Liesje

6 months, 50lbs stack. Hips and elbows clear! He is ALL legs an ears right now! One thing I really love about this dog which you can't really see in photos is his coat. It is very thick, fluffy, and luxurious. I dare say he has more coat than Nikon (my show line), without it being too long or plush.


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## FG167

Liesje said:


> 6 months, 50lbs stack. Hips and elbows clear! He is ALL legs an ears right now! One thing I really love about this dog which you can't really see in photos is his coat. It is very thick, fluffy, and luxurious. I dare say he has more coat than Nikon (my show line), without it being too long or plush.


I know NOTHING about showing GSDs but I personally like his chest, neck and head set...


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## VomBlack

He's an absolutely stunning dog, and I love the dark pigment.:wub:


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## Rei

Liesje said:


> 6 months, 50lbs stack. Hips and elbows clear! He is ALL legs an ears right now! One thing I really love about this dog which you can't really see in photos is his coat. It is very thick, fluffy, and luxurious. I dare say he has more coat than Nikon (my show line), without it being too long or plush.


Oh my GOODNESS, Lies!!!!!!! He is incredible! :wub::wub:

He really is a Boy puppy, isn't he? I can really see the resemblance. And I am a huge fan of Boy aesthetically (having never met him in person)!! Guess I'm a Pan Fan, too.


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## GSD_Xander

His color is just stunning! What a really, really gorgeous boy!!!


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## Jason L

FG167 said:


> I know NOTHING about showing GSDs but I personally like his chest, neck and head set...


I agree. He is one good looking pup!


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## sagelfn

:wub: OMG how did I miss this thread!?

Pan is growing into such a stunning young male! I had no idea he was a "Boy" son who was the dam? Bill is on my list for when I'm ready for a pup.


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## cassadee7

He is really gorgeous. If I were getting a second GSD anytime soon I'd want one that looks just like him!


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## Northern GSDs

He sure is looking great Lies!


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## LaRen616

Gorgeous Pan! I adore him. :wub:


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## Liesje

sagelfn said:


> :wub: OMG how did I miss this thread!?
> 
> Pan is growing into such a stunning young male! I had no idea he was a "Boy" son who was the dam? Bill is on my list for when I'm ready for a pup.


Hilde is the dam of the L and P Boy litters.

He looks much larger in the pic than he really is b/c I'm crouching down and leaning back. He really is not taller than my knees.


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## boeselager

He is a gorgeous boy


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## GSDTrain

handsome Pan!


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## LuvourGSDs

GORGEOUS Lies..........................:wub: :wub: :wub:

What are his lines ?


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## Liesje

Thanks, he's west German working lines.


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## mel hunter

Beautiful dog!!


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## trish07

I'm speachless, serioulsy, this dog is much more than just stunning...I have no word!!! Could you please send me all the information about your breeder? It will be really appreciated! Keep us posted!!!


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## Liesje

Thank you, his breeders are Bill Kulla and Jennifer Acevedo.

:: BILL KULLA DOG TRAINING ::


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## Liesje




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## LaRen616

MORE Pan pictures?!?!?!

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:


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## boeselager

He is just Stunning!!!!


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## Liesje

Thank you! Once the snow is fully melted I hope to start doing more ring training. Normally I show my dogs without much ring training but I feel Pan is a very nice dog and I want him to be more competitive so he deserves that chance!


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## istie

He is gorgeous!!!

Good luck with him


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## trish07

I,m so jalous!!!! She is so stunning!!! Everytime, I'm speachless.....is she going to have a litter? is it in your plan?


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## FG167

trish07 said:


> I,m so jalous!!!! She is so stunning!!! Everytime, I'm speachless.....is she going to have a litter? is it in your plan?


Pan is a male.


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## Wolfgeist

Pan's got a fan club! Consider me the newest member!

I can tell he's a Boy baby. Boy was the most handsome dog I have ever seen, until NOW. Pan has to be the most handsome male dog I have EVER seen. You are very lucky! His coat is so rich and luxurious! 

I am getting a pup out of Hilde/Cayos this summer. I am incredibly excited. Bill is a wonderful breeder. I recommend him to EVERYONE. 

I really enjoyed reading through this thread and seeing those videos and the pictures. Where did you learn to train him, and at what age did you begin with him? I am researching methods right now, which is why I am asking.


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## Liesje

Thanks! Bill and Jen have been great. Hilde is Pan's mother!

I began obedience training Pan right away. I enjoy training so why wait? He has a lot of food drive so I used that. Just recently I've been starting to use toy rewards as well. He has a LOT of prey drive and motivation for toys, but what's really nice is that I can switch between food and toys several times during a training session and his drive never diminishes (many dogs prefer one over the other, and won't be as motivated for food once a toy has entered the picture). I enjoy training in general, so I take bits and pieces from everything I've learned in the past (pet obedience, CGC, rally obedience, agility, herding, tracking, protection, dock diving, etc). A lot of it is experimentation more than "training"!


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## NancyJ

Lovely dog


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## VonKromeHaus

I really like him! He's a very nice looking dog!!!


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## LaRen616

Hey!

We are do for more Pan pictures!


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## Liesje




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## gsdraven

Lies, someone stole your puppy! :shocked:

He's getting so big and is still just as handsome as ever.


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## LaRen616

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

I think I just died!

What a hunk!


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## istie

He is so lovely


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## Liesje

His nose is gonna be a pale green for a while!


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## LaRen616

Liesje said:


> His nose is gonna be a pale green for a while!


He would still be gorgeous though! :wub:


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## LaRen616

Just fyi, this picture is now my work desktop wallpaper


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## LaRen616

We are extremely overdue for some Pan pictures! 

Can we please see some more?! :wub:


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## FG167

LaRen616 said:


> We are extremely overdue for some Pan pictures!
> 
> Can we please see some more?! :wub:


I LOVE this dog - he has the most luxurious coat ever! And he's a sweetie pie on top of it - I have the BIGGEST crush on him (click on it for the bigger size)


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## LaRen616

FG167 said:


> I LOVE this dog - he has the most luxurious coat ever! And he's a sweetie pie on top of it - I have the BIGGEST crush on him (click on it for the bigger size)


Thank you for this! :wub:


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## Liesje

Um, he's doing a lot more biting than showing these days!


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## LaRen616

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:


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## Liesje

I showed Pan today. He got second place in his class. He has more potential but we need more practice and I need to make it more fun for him. No stacked pics since I went alone. But LaRen I took these for you:


















Pan did a lure coursing fun run. I only got butt shots of him taking off though.


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## LaRen616

I cant believe how gorgeous he is, he's absolutely stunning. :wub:

I am a HUGE Pan fan!


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## KZoppa

goodness he is a hunk!!! i havent seen this thread in a while so i'm all excited to see it again!


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## istie

he is gorgeous and is getting better and better


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## trish07

I'm so jalous!!!! Seriously....I know two dogs that make me crazy and yours is one of them. The other is a girl here in Quebec (friends' dog named Elle) and she looks like yours!


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## LaRen616

I need some more Pan pictures, please!


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