# 8 week old biting in a aggressive manner towards owner



## tori1993 (Dec 8, 2016)

*8 week old biting and latching on to hand*

I just got a new 8 week old puppy this week and he has had many issues with using the bathroom in the house. As myself and my husband take him out often when we notice he is sniffing around a lot we take him out. Well tonight he beat us to peeing on the floor and my husband said no to him and lightly smacked his nose. At this point the puppy immediately turned and bit his hand and latched on. He drew a good amount of blood. I am not sure on how to correct him on this because he does play bite a lot and we tell him no and give him toys as he turns away from the toys and comes back for our hands and feet. 
I need some advice on whether he acted aggressively and how to get him to stop because I have a 9 month old son and I really want to find ways to get this to stop before it becomes a bad habit. 
I am worried to that maybe he was not ready to leave the mother as he whines a lot through out the night.


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## tori1993 (Dec 8, 2016)

Just got a new 8 week old puppy and he bites a lot. tonight he peed on the floor and my husband told him no and smacked his nose for it. When he did so the puppy turned and bite his hand latching on drawing blood. I am concerned because I have a 9 month old and I really want the puppy to be able to nicely play together without the worry of him drawing blood on him next. 

Also the puppy whines a lot at night while in his kennel and he growls if you are near his food bowl while he is eating which is another concern. 

When the puppy is play biting we tell him no and give him a toy although still at times he turns from the toy and goes for our feet and hands. Any advice on how to get him to stop this and if I need to worry about future aggressive biting from this puppy.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

It's incredibly rare that a puppy that young would be showing offensive aggression. 8 weeks old is an infant! Would you think your son was capable of aggression at this stage in his life?

He was either playing - seeing your husband's smack as an invite for rough play. 

Or he was hurt and afraid by the assault and tried to defend himself.

Moral of the story... don't hit puppies. It's not going to help build your trust and bond with this dog. Also studies have shown that out of the aversive techniques hitting or kicking arrange most likely to elicit aggressive responses from the dog. 43% of dogs in this survey where the owners hit or kicked them as a form of discipline became aggressive:

Survey of the use and outcome of confrontational and non-confrontational training methods in client-owned dogs showing undesired behaviors

There is a very real risk that if you dont change your discipline methods you will create the very problem you fear. 

I suggest going to puppy classes with this one. A skilled trainer will be able to help much more then we can online. They'll be able to observe your and the pups body language and see things you may not be able to. 

Im sensing a lot of frustration in your post... puppies take a lot of work for the first 2 - 3 years of their lives. Is this something that you are sure you want to take on with such a young child to look after too?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Where did you get this pup? What did the breeder say about this behavior and interactions with your son?


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

@tori1993 Your husband is an idiot for smacking the pup. Would you smack a baby for peeing his bed? That is not how you potty train a pup. You shouldn't have a GSD if you don't know anything about raising these types of dogs. And by your post I can see you don't. EVERY SINGLE GSD pup I ever had bit me and drew blood. How do you react? You don't. You don't do anything. It's a faze. It takes 5-6 months to pass. You give him a soft chew toy (tugs are best: Leerburg | 2-Handled Synthetic Mini Tug ) and when he bites the tug you praise. If he bites your hand you either go limp and let him, or you give a stern NO and ignore him. Never ever smack a pup, that's like smacking a baby. Sorry to sound harsh but things like this just angers me. It's the type of people who never owned a GSD before and then end up giving it away to a shelter at the first signs of stress. 
As far as potty training goes? You crate train them. They need a nice comfortable crate with a nice blanket or mat. They rarely pee inside their "den" so as soon as you take him out of the crate you go outside and let him walk on some grass, when he pees or poops outside you praise the heck out of him with treats and pats and "good boy's". With my pups I keep them tethered to me at all times inside the house when they are out of their crate. You ration his food and keep it on you. When he behaves calm and good you praise and feed him. If you see him getting ready to squat to pee, you pick him up and run outside to pee.
Sorry again for being harsh I was just mad about the whole smacking thing. 
Good luck, don't give up, and remain calm throughout.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

tell your husband not to smack an 8 week old for peeing on the floor. that's going to happen a lot. just yell no and take them immediately outside. if the dog turns out vicious your husband caused it.


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## BrodyRoo (Aug 10, 2016)

Don't smack your puppy for peeing on the floor - that's ridiculous. At that age, any accidents in the house are a failing on your part, not the puppy's. 

Puppies bite. It's what they do. Keep redirecting and try not to take it personally. It isn't aggression, I promise. 

As for playing with your son - that sounds like a fairly terrible idea to me. Puppies play by biting - they don't understand anything else. And young children can be unintentionally rough with pets. Keep them separate until your dog is mature enough to understand to be gentle with children.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I'll agree with everyone else, this is just puppy play. It isn't aggression, but getting popped on the head for peeing could teach it aggression. The pup won't understand why it is getting hit and may bite to protect himself. 

Your pup is a baby, who bit and wrestled with littermates. It needs to be taught to bite and tug on toys instead of hands, feet and pant legs. It will take time. You can't rush it. Be calm, stock up on bandages and keep in mind that your pup will learn to stop biting in time. Keep the kiddo away from the pup for now. Neither of them have self control. Watch the videos from Stop The 77 I recommend these to any family with kids, no matter what dog they have. 

And just like your toddlers, you pup will get crazy if over tired. Instead of whining they get extra nippy. Make sure your pup gets its naps!


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

there are two threads started by Tori, so check them both. Or maybe they can be consolidated. 

Many people forget how puppy hood is, don't loose your temper. It won't do anything but scare the pup. It won't teach him anything. He may even think you want to play rougher. That is what my boy thought.
Since we were training our pup for sports we actually played with him wearing big leather gloves. He didn't like tugs and toys. He wanted US! The big gloves helped a lot. But be careful because as the jaws get stronger, gloves don't protect from crunching. By the time my boy got that strong, he figured out that playing with tug toys was fun, too. 

I also let him play with rinsed plastic juice bottles (once crunched I tossed them away) and I let him tear up cardboard boxes (watch out for staples and tape). It made a mess but it helped with that urge to bite and tear. Remember they need to practice that. It is a survival skill in the wild. 


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

We got through a nippy phase (with a JRT) using a bitter apple spray and buying a bunch of dog toys that are intended for biting and rough play. When he got nippy we used the spray to make our hands taste gross and then redirected him to the toys (a little PB can help here).


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

tori1993 said:


> I just got a new 8 week old puppy this week and he has had many issues with using the bathroom in the house. As myself and my husband take him out often when we notice he is sniffing around a lot we take him out. Well tonight he beat us to peeing on the floor and my husband said no to him and lightly smacked his nose. At this point the puppy immediately turned and bit his hand and latched on. He drew a good amount of blood. I am not sure on how to correct him on this because he does play bite a lot and we tell him no and give him toys as he turns away from the toys and comes back for our hands and feet.
> I need some advice on whether he acted aggressively and how to get him to stop because I have a 9 month old son and I really want to find ways to get this to stop before it becomes a bad habit.
> I am worried to that maybe he was not ready to leave the mother as he whines a lot through out the night.


Keep the puppy and your son separated. Puppy teeth are sharp. There are lots of threads on here about puppy biting. Take some time and read them. Or if you can't handle it, return the puppy to the breeder.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

tori1993 said:


> Just got a new 8 week old puppy and he bites a lot. tonight he peed on the floor and my husband told him no and smacked his nose for it. When he did so the puppy turned and bite his hand latching on drawing blood. I am concerned because I have a 9 month old and I really want the puppy to be able to nicely play together without the worry of him drawing blood on him next.
> 
> Also the puppy whines a lot at night while in his kennel and he growls if you are near his food bowl while he is eating which is another concern.
> 
> When the puppy is play biting we tell him no and give him a toy although still at times he turns from the toy and goes for our feet and hands. Any advice on how to get him to stop this and if I need to worry about future aggressive biting from this puppy.


Don't smack your puppy for peeing in the house. He doesn't know how to not pee in the house. You're going to basically have to take him out every 2 hours, after every meal, after every time you have a thorough play session, after he wakes up from sleeping, and before he sleeps at night. You will have to set an alarm at night, just like a human baby, to take him out to pee every 2 hours so he doesn't soil the house/crate. (This part REALLY sucks. Rotate days with your husband so it's not so terrible on one of you.) We were able to increase the time by an hour every 2 weeks, so by the time he was 3 months old, we only had to get up once, and by the time he was 4 months old, he could hold his bladder all night and for most of the day. This really helps fast-track house training.

Expect play biting. All the time. Expect play biting that rips open your skin and clothes for the next 2-3 months, maybe less if you're lucky and have a puppy with exceptional self-control. Each time he bites you, keep saying "no" and shoving a toy in his mouth. You will have to do this over and over and over and over...and over. We promise, it gets better when he starts losing his puppy teeth and his gums hurt. Use that pain to your advantage. He'll want to mouth more softly, so encourage that soft mouth then phase out to not mouthing at all.

Regarding growling at his bowl, make him work for his food. He's 8 weeks old, but you can teach an 8 week old puppy to sit and understand the basics of sit within a few tries. Quite simply, teach him the word and the action with treats, then make him sit every time you give him food. He doesn't get his food unless he sits. You can do the same for his water. Beyond teaching him that you're the controller of all resources, you're also teaching him not to go shoving the water/food bowl out of your hand (and making a huge mess) out of his excitement to get the thing you have. This sets the basics for doggie manners.

Also, he's going to whine and cry and howl for a while. It's going to take some time before he learns to go to sleep by himself and how to self-soothe. Some people here have put the puppy's crate in their bedrooms. We kept our puppy in the living room downstairs and made him tough it out.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Everyone else pretty much covered everything, so no point in beating a dead horse. Look into Nothing In Life is Free (NILIF). It can help prevent a lot of behavioral problems. Here is a start, but you can google it and find tons of info. Nothing in Life is Free


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

You are not your dog's chew toy. Don't let him treat you like one. 

Redirecting to a chew bone or toy will help. 

Consistency is key.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You have a 9 month old baby and a landshark puppy? Maybe that is too much for you right now. Is this your first GSD puppy? Please search for all the posts you can find here on the word landshark. I just self edited something else I was going to say. Please realize, we are being very restrained in what we are saying to you. Do not ever hit a dog, especially not a baby. Young puppies bite a lot and will continue to bite for a while. That is normal behavior. Take him out every 15 minutes while awake and a few times during the night to pee. If you can't do that and can't handle biting you aren't ready for this puppy.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

I wrote a big long reply and my laptop died. Sigh.


Shorter version:


Your puppy is a baby, just like your child. Puppies bite, they chew, they potty on the floor. That said, not all draw blood. Mine haven't and I've had a great many. It sounds like your puppy got scared and probably reacted like he would to a littermate who suddenly hurt him. But puppy teeth are razor sharp and if your husband jerked his hand it can cause a 'bite'. Hitting the puppy won't teach it a thing. It's an old fashioned way to teach and all it will do is teach the wrong thing. 


You will need to keep the puppy and your baby separate. I have a now four month old puppy and a one year old granddaughter who comes over daily. It means when the puppy and granddaughter are together it's complete and total supervision. I did it usually outside where there were lots of other interesting things for the puppy. Even now it is still constant supervision with them as the puppy will accidently knock her over in a heartbeat. Having a puppy while having a baby is a LOT of hard work!


You not only have to potty train, lead train, teach not to bite and to only chew on appropriate toys but you need to train the puppy, take it out to stores and for long walks. The energy of a puppy is boundless and putting it out in the backyard by itself will not begin to lower the energy level. You need to expose the puppy to other people and experience. It needs to learn to walk down the street with you and not react to other dogs or people. It's like an intense two or three years of teaching and training, like raising a child until they are eighteen but doing it in three years. You need to take it to puppy class and learn how to train it. Your puppy is going to be a very big dog and if you don't learn how to train it you will have a very big problem. 


What's your puppy's name? Do you have any pictures to share?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I answered your other almost identical question already. If you can't follow suggestions and want to keep the dog, get a good private trainer into your house immediately before you create a problem you can't fix. You need someone to show you how to treat the puppy who can also give you ideas on how to keep the dog and your baby safe. 

If it was me, I would keep them separated until your son is walking well and the dog is trained. When I had babies, my dog was never alone with them in the same room, and I did that until they were at least three years old. That dog spent a lot of time outside, by choice, but it was not a German Shepherd and was well suited to yard time.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

oh, by the way..that urge to bite is actually a good thing. Once your pup learns that skin is not to bite on but tugs are fine, a game of tug is a very nice way to reward good behavior! But hold off on that until after teething, around 4 months old.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

ok so i am a first time dog owner
i got my puppy at 6 weeks
my biggest worries about dog ownership was food aggression, and humping (both non existent)
but my biggest problem became play biting

since it was my first dog, i didn't have a "standard" level of puppy biting to compare to
all i knew was that my arm, upto my elbow, were always bloodied, and full of lacerations
yes they drew blood

i was like you. i thought i might have ended up with an aggressive puppy. the only difference was i never thought about giving him away
i looked into training programs but they required my puppy to be at least 5months of age (my dog was 3months at the time)

i went to work every day with bleeding arms and some coworkers jokingly used to ask whether everything was alright in my life (suggesting i am cutting my wrists)

when i first got the dog, i had a somewhat negative opinion of "dominance" training, or punishment based training where you use physical force on your dog
i have tried treat training, which seemed to work, but ONLY when my dog knew i had a treat with me. without the treats, he would revert back to biting
i have tried "yelp" method, which was ridiculous, to be honest
time out/isolation method, and my dog gladly took the opportunity to take a nap...
ignoring and walking away, my dog chased me bit me in my calf and legs
air horns, which worked the first 5 blasts, but once my dog learned there were no follow through consequence, got accustomed to it

i had quite a few people at work who owned one or more german shepherds and dobermans and they all advised me that i had to get "tough" with a strong breed like GSD
they suggested i had to have a prong collar to begin with
also had a breeder who bred championship level american bulldogs and he surmised that i probably picked a stubborn personality dog, and the puppy left the litter and mom too early (at 6 wks), and suggested the "alpha roll" method
the only problem was my dog yelled and cried so loud i was afraid that my neighbors would call the cops on me, lol

one day before heading out to work, my dog bit me hard and i started bleeding
i got mad and picked up his collar that was sitting on my desk, and used it to whip him on his butt
he got very scared and scurried away under my dining table

i was worried that it might have created a negative association with the collar but it never did
and the biting problem has dramatically improved and he soon learned bite inhibition
all this happened during 2months to 3months of age, and about a week after i introduced the whipping method, he became the "perfect" dog for me

looking back, i now realize the biting wasn't "aggressive", it was rather normal
and i probably would not have whipped him if i had a second "go" at it, but i feel that it all worked out
i always give my dog daily 1hr walks, and heavy running/chase at my local parks once a week (not dog parks)
he's strictly an indoor dog, he sleeps, eats, poops, pees ALL in the house

yes it was rather difficult and tricky in the early stages, i was sleeping 2 to 3 hours per day making sure he poops and pees right
but realizing i have got myself a loyal 4-legged companion makes everything worth it

my advise, try to understand the biting is rather normal
but of course keep your young one out of harms way
as far as the peeing problem, i initially hooked up his dog crate together with baby playpen, and covered ALL the play area with pee pads so that he HAS to pee on the pads
as time went on, i took out a pad at a time, and eventually ended up with 1 pad where he would always pee on it
now, however, due to his size, i have to use 2 pads, which lasts 1 day

my dog is now just turned 7 months, and i became a huge fan of GSDs. (i initally wanted a Corgi, lol)

i wish you good luck and i suggest being patient with your dog


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Your dog poops and pees ALL in the house?


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Your dog poops and pees ALL in the house?


yes
he pees around 5~6 times a day,
and poops 2 to 3 times a day (1 of those poops can take place during walks from time to time)


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## Themusicmanswife (Jul 16, 2015)

Pan_GSD said:


> yes
> he pees around 5~6 times a day,
> and poops 2 to 3 times a day (1 of those poops can take place during walks from time to time)


Why in the house?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Pan thistisn't a jab at you...I understand people lose their temper and sometimes it even solves a problem, but to OP please do not whip your pup, I would even strongly recommend you dont even yell at it for peeing in the house

It is basically an infant...until we start to teach them they don't even know they started peeing really, if they need to go they just cut loose. The most I ever did with mine was to interrupt as quickly as I could and try to whisk him outside to finish. But mostly it was looking for the signs, knowing when he was due, and getting him to the correct potty location before he began pottying. I think I even pottied him every half hour when he was 8 weeks old and then began to lengthen that whatever amount he seemed capable of as we went. I don't think he piddled in the house ever after 9 weeks. Pooping took a bit longer but it was my fault for letting him have free reign of too much house to supervise him better.

Your puppy is a baby without the protection and guidance of a same species mother who understands it, please be patient and kind. Try to imagine how frightened a human child would be if it wet its pants at a friend's house and got slapped by the friend's parents


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Themusicmanswife said:


> Why in the house?


i dont know, lol
i dont mind him peeing/pooping in the house as long as it's done in the right place, and he does
so i dont bother training him to potty outside
he will poop on walks if he wants to
but never saw him pee outside



Thecowboysgirl said:


> Pan thistisn't a jab at you..


that's fine
we all have to start somewhere


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

to the OP,
preventing food aggression was a top priority of mine before i even got the dog, simply because i've watched dogs snarling at owners on TV, and i find that very disturbing

here's what i did
every time i fed him, i held the food bowl and stood in front of him giving him SIT command
at first, he would jump, and get excited trying to get at the food, but i kept still and silent
he would whimper and settle down and sit

i would then crouch down, and he would get up again
but same thing, i block him using a stiff arm, and stayed silent

once he settled down, i put the bowl down, i tell him WAIT, and after 3 seconds i say EAT and he would eat

this didn't take long at all and i NEVER witnessed a HINT of food aggression


now when i bring the food out from the kitchen, (we have a baby gate blocking the kitchen), he would rest his front paws on the gate, inspect the food, and displays satisfaction and goes to his eating area and sits down, without me giving any commands other than "EAT"
lol


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Pan_GSD said:


> i dont know, lol
> i dont mind him peeing/pooping in the house as long as it's done in the right place, and he does
> so i dont bother training him to potty outside
> he will poop on walks if he wants to
> ...


In my house there's one right place. We call it "The Toilet" If thats the place you mean, nice work. If its not, I'm at a loss.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Steve Strom said:


> In my house there's one right place. We call it "The Toilet" If thats the place you mean, nice work. If its not, I'm at a loss.


his "toilet" is smack dead in the middle of my living room and my house wreaks of his piss and poop and i love it


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

tori1993 said:


> Just got a new 8 week old puppy and he bites a lot. tonight he peed on the floor and my husband told him no and smacked his nose for it. When he did so the puppy turned and bite his hand latching on drawing blood. I am concerned because I have a 9 month old and I really want the puppy to be able to nicely play together without the worry of him drawing blood on him next.
> 
> Also the puppy whines a lot at night while in his kennel and he growls if you are near his food bowl while he is eating which is another concern.
> 
> When the puppy is play biting we tell him no and give him a toy although still at times he turns from the toy and goes for our feet and hands. Any advice on how to get him to stop this and if I need to worry about future aggressive biting from this puppy.


Make sure you know for sure you can handle the next 10 months along with raising a toddler. It seems difficult for you. Get a trainer asap to avoid ingrained problem behavior. If you are overwhelmed, find the pup a home where they have time and the experience with raising a GSD pup or return to the breeder. I foresee issues as your husband doesn't understand dogs and his responses if not changed, will make the dog aggressive and then what? 
Teach the pup; don't punish it for what he doesn't have a clue what he did wrong. Envision a K- teacher, hitting a 5 year old because she doesn't know her ABCs.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

tori1993 said:


> Just got a new 8 week old puppy and he bites a lot. tonight he peed on the floor and my husband told him no and smacked his nose for it. When he did so the puppy turned and bite his hand latching on drawing blood. I am concerned because I have a 9 month old and I really want the puppy to be able to nicely play together without the worry of him drawing blood on him next.
> 
> Also the puppy whines a lot at night while in his kennel and he growls if you are near his food bowl while he is eating which is another concern.
> 
> When the puppy is play biting we tell him no and give him a toy although still at times he turns from the toy and goes for our feet and hands. Any advice on how to get him to stop this and if I need to worry about future aggressive biting from this puppy.


Its most likely that since he's been biting at your hands already, that was just an escalation of that playing. It is possible he was defending himself, so I'd think about being very clear in teaching him what you want him to do. Try not to fall into a habit of always needing to stop bad behaviors, direct him right into good behaviors.

I'd just give him his food in the kennel and leave him alone with it. Don't add stress to the whole thing playing games about when he gets it or not. 

The toy has to be the fun part, not your hands or feet. Animate, move the toy to get his focus on that. You can tie a light rope to it to create some separation from your hands.


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## Milliegsd (Nov 24, 2015)

Pan_GSD said:


> his "toilet" is smack dead in the middle of my living room and my house wreaks of his piss and poop and i love it


:|....... I hope you're not serious


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Pan_GSD said:


> his "toilet" is smack dead in the middle of my living room and my house wreaks of his piss and poop and i love it


Great. Add a dozen more and go all the way.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Milliegsd said:


> :|....... I hope you're not serious


yes sarcasm...


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> yes sarcasm...


I'm relieved. When we read things quickly, it's hard to pick up on nuance. I completely missed the joke.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm relieved. When we read things quickly, it's hard to pick up on nuance. I completely missed the joke.


lol i think it's funny


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> lol i think it's funny


I have a friend who works and she only wants her dog peeing in the house when she is away. Seriously. It's a smaller dog and she uses a cat box. So it could be true!


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Pan_GSD said:


> ok so i am a first time dog owner
> i got my puppy at 6 weeks
> my biggest worries about dog ownership was food aggression, and humping (both non existent)
> but my biggest problem became play biting
> ...


Bad advice given by a very inexperienced person who got bad advice themselves. OP - please don't take this one to heart. There are many posts by people on this thread who have successfully raised multiple GSDS to adulthood, including very drivey working line animals who have given you correct advice.

7 mos.. still not house trained. That's probably going to suck when he gets around a year and starts lifting the leg.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> Bad advice given by a very inexperienced person who got bad advice themselves. OP - please don't take this one to heart. There are many posts by people on this thread who have successfully raised multiple GSDS to adulthood, including very drivey working line animals who have given you correct advice.
> 
> 7 mos.. still not house trained. That's probably going to suck when he gets around a year and starts lifting the leg.


the purpose of my post wasn't to give advise, if it came out that way, then i failed to deliver my point accurately
the purpose was to let the owner know that what seems like aggressive biting, can be rather normal
and my story is something that this owner can compare to, the intensity of biting
i had no way to know whether my dog's level of biting was normal or aggressive, and i was worried that i ended up with an aggressive puppy

i know that people judge others, it's inevitable
but here's how i think
this is an online forum, and i'm anonymous, chances are VERY high i won't meet anyone here on the forum in person
however, i still like to be 100% transparent

am i ashamed that i ended up whipping my dog? YES (it only lasted 1 week and i probably whipped him no more than 15 times)
but others can glean experience from my story

that is what i do when i come to this forum
many members often disagree, and they all have different theories and sources
but i value ALL experiences, yes you can learn from successes AND failures

that was my point of my post
i wasn't trying to educate this owner by any means, i CLEARLY stated i was a first time dog owner, very first line

people judge, that's fine, i fully accept that
and since this is an online forum, i dont take offense to any critcism
but i still value transparency and honesty

i just wish the best of luck to the OP


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Omg I boarded a pair of little dogs, one who was just not housebroken by any stretch of the imagination. He wears the male diaper but has to have feminine pads in there and sometimes he would soak thru those, just merrily lifting his leg EVERYWHERE. I used to take care of a lady's little dog who used potty pads in her apartment. It never ceases to amaze me what is ok with some people. No way I could have lived with either dog.

But to each their own.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

just want to add,
my goal when raising my dog isn't to make him a top tier competition dog
i don't care if my dog protects me from an aggressor on the street, or if my dog fetches the newspaper in the morning

i dont care
i just hope my dog grows up happy and healthy and lives a good life
and i will provide him with the best resources within my ability


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Pan I am not judging you. My worry was that the OP would read your post and since obviously they are ok with hittinf this pup, they might think, well it worked for that guy (are you a guy?) And try it. Which in my opinion, would be just awful for this little puppy.

But meh, no one died and left me the title of most knowledgeable German Shepherd forum poster.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Pan I am not judging you. My worry was that the OP would read your post and since obviously they are ok with hittinf this pup, they might think, well it worked for that guy (are you a guy?) And try it. Which in my opinion, would be just awful for this little puppy.
> 
> But meh, no one died and left me the title of most knowledgeable German Shepherd forum poster.


that post was a reply to Voodoolambs as there might have been some confusion that i was trying to ADVISE the owner, when i was simply providing my first hand experience that he/she can compare to
if Voodoolambs thought i was trying to instruct the OP, then perhaps the OP might have misunderstood it the same way, so that's fine if he points that out

again, i dont mind people providing criticisms since alot of members on this board that i listen up to all have differing opinions too
so i know there's more than 1 right answer


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Well, there's 1 right answer to pooping in the house. Don't. You should care about that Pan.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Pan_GSD said:


> am i ashamed that i ended up whipping my dog? YES (it only lasted 1 week and i probably whipped him no more than 15 times)
> but others can glean experience from my story


At no point in your original post did you convey that you regretted your decision to, out of anger and frustration, whip your dog. 

You actually stated that "about a week after i introduced the whipping method, he became the "perfect" dog for me"

That certainly sounds like a glowing testimonial whether you intentionally meant to advise or not.

And the whipping is just the tip of the iceberg.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> At no point in your original post did you convey that you regretted your decision to, out of anger and frustration, whip your dog.
> 
> You actually stated that "about a week after i introduced the whipping method, he became the "perfect" dog for me"
> 
> ...


i never edit my posts
read again



Pan_GSD said:


> and i probably would not have whipped him if i had a second "go" at it, but i feel that it all worked out


if you are accusing me of being a dog abuser, which it sounds like you are implying my "methods" were simply the tip of the iceberg, then i think we have a disagreement on which dog training philosophy we fall into
if you are a proponent of positive only dog training method, i respect that
i think positive only method takes ALOT of time, patience, and commitment, more than discpline/dominance based training

if it's something else, where you're simply trying to read my words through your own biases, then i will simply be wasting my breadth trying to change your opinion


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Pan_GSD said:


> i never edit my posts
> read again
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a PO trainer. 

Tip of the iceberg actually referred to your taking and utilising the advice to alpha roll an 8 - 12 weeks old puppy...

Plus your unorthodox interpretation of house breaking.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You need one of those tasers. They sell them for personal defense. The next time your husband smacks an 8 week old puppy for peeing, you immediately zap him with the taser. Timing is important. He has to understand cause and effect. So you have to nail him right after he smacks the puppy. I think at that point, the main problem will be solved. 

Normal puppy stuff. 

Lots of trips outside to potty, don't even yell at him. If you catch him in the act, "Eh! No. Outside to Pee Pee." And get him out to the potty area. 

Lots of using words like "Outside" "Pee Pee" "Poopie" "Good boy, you went poopie Outside." This is important, because you do not want him to be fearful about peeing and pooping. You actually want him to do these things, when he is with you, outside, on leash. If you make pottying an anxious thing, you can have submissive urination (nothing you can do but clean it up and hope he outgrows it), or being too afraid to potty in your presence, so you bring him back in, and wham, five minutes later, there it is in the middle of the floor -- not good -- not his fault.

provide plenty of toys and chews to redirect him with. 

Removed bitable body parts from being easily obtainable from his teeth.

Teach him to the Gentle command. You can teach him to be gentle, using treats, but the word, Gentle, in taking the treat. Start with your open palm. Always say, Gentle, and let him have it, then good gentle. Got to be gentle taking it out of an open palm. After a few days, put a thumb on it, and say, Gentle, and let him try to take it. If he tries to snatch, say "No." Try again, Gentle. If necessary, go back to the open palm. When he takes it gently even with a thumb over it, make it tougher. Close the fist. Gentle and offer the fist. if he licks the fist, open and give it to him, Good Gentle. Remember, that you are teaching the word so the word must be said, every time. If he bites at the fist, say No, and put the treat in your pocket. Try again in fifteen minutes. They can get this. 

When He has been doing this good for a few days, make it tougher and put the treat between your finger and thumb -- this is the worst way and most common way people offer a treat. You are providing the opportunity of getting a lot of finger. But remind, Gentle, and if he takes it without nicking you with a tooth, "Good Gentle" If he tries to snatch, No, put it in your pocket, and maybe go back to reinforce earlier steps. 

After he is doing this well, then you can use the GENTLE word with other objects: Gentle with my fingers. If he licks your fingers, "Good Gentle, Good boy!" Gentle with the baby. Gentle with the grandma. And so forth. They can learn to be gentle.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

voodoolamb said:


> your taking and utilising the advice to alpha roll an 8 - 12 weeks old puppy...


didn't know better
actually i still dont think it's a bad thing
it doesn't "hurt" the dog?
i've seen cesar millan do that in his show too
i never done it after that one time but why is it bad?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> i never edit my posts
> read again
> 
> 
> ...


It's impossible for me to tell what you mean. You sound serious, then say you are joking, but your posts contradict each other. The OP needs clear advice that makes sense. It bothers me to see this thread getting into the weeds like this isntead of helping the OP resolve a problem. This is someone's dog. Sarcasm is confusing and not helpful.


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## Pan_GSD (Oct 2, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> It's impossible for me to tell what you mean. You sound serious, then say you are joking, but your posts contradict each other. The OP needs clear advice that makes sense. It bothers me to see this thread getting into the weeds like this isntead of helping the OP resolve a problem. This is someone's dog. Sarcasm is confusing and not helpful.


i'll simply stop posting here


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> didn't know better
> actually i still dont think it's a bad thing
> it doesn't "hurt" the dog?
> i've seen cesar millan do that in his show too
> i never done it after that one time but why is it bad?


Cesar Milan is not a respected trainer any longer. His methods are questionable and abusive. What is the point of alpha rolling a puppy? That the time to build a relationship and respect. Cesar doesn't need to do that. Once he is done with a dog, he never has to see it again.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Pan_GSD said:


> i'll simply stop posting here


Why? If you have something to offer, then post it. Go back and read the whole thread and see which posts are helpful to the OP and which aren't.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Whipping a puppy with a collar, newspaper, belt, stick, leash is all abuse and can have bad consequences. Or not. Dogs will often come back over and over again to an owner that kicks them every day. They are beyond forgiving. And that is why it is so heinous to abuse a dog. 

A dog might respect a person who can physically hurt it. And this has been done to animals for thousands of years because it actually works. It can also break the spirit of the animal, it will create a bond of respect due to fear, the dog will obey or try to obey out of avoidance of punishment, and in critical moments it is likely to avoid you as well, to its demise. If that is what you want, well, unless you cause serious physical harm to the dog, I don't think they can arrest or charge you with anything, so I guess it is up to you. 

I prefer to build a bond of trust, and learn to communicate effectively with the dog, so that it does what I want, every time, and trusts me completely. It does not take longer to train a dog this way. It doesn't require better timing. It does require commitment, and it requires patience. Every angry outburst, yelling, scruffing, yanking, etc -- that attacks the trust bond, and makes things longer. I have no problem with telling a dog, No, or not giving a treat, or having a dog repeat an instruction, or body blocking a dog from what he should not have. I will even grab a hold of a muzzle or collar if necessary. Being firm and fair will not hurt a trust bond. You have to follow through with commands, no nagging or repeating commands.

To house train, you do need a newspaper. Roll it up. When you see that the puppy has peed on the floor, you find the puppy and you put him in his crate. Then you go into the other room, and lift the newspaper high up over your head and strike downward several times, saying, "I will watch my puppy." Clean the mess with an enzyme based cleaner, and repeat as necessary.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pan_GSD said:


> didn't know better
> actually i still dont think it's a bad thing
> it doesn't "hurt" the dog?
> i've seen cesar millan do that in his show too
> i never done it after that one time but why is it bad?


It's bad for a number of reasons. 

It is physically putting a dog in a submissive position. This is based off of erroneous work with captive wolves. Captives wolves are not domestic dogs. Different situation. Anyhow. The idea was that a wolf would force a subordinate wolf into a submissive position. This really doesn't happen in the wild. A dominant wolf leads with his demeaner, and the other wolves follow. He never has to bully any of his subordinates. They may volunteer to put themselves into a subordinate position. 

You can prove to a baby puppy that you are in control. But think of that. A puppy under 4-5 months old has a puppy license and adult dogs pretty much let the puppy do anything. At least pack members, his dam they do not punish a puppy like this. A bitch that has no way of retreating where the puppies cannot get to, may snarl or growl if they are going for her tender teats and she is trying to wean them. But most of my females don't even do this. They let puppies go. No problems with them either for doing so. 

So, what you are doing with a youngster is placing them in a vulnerable position out of force and usually when angry. The puppy sees this as instability and becomes afraid of you, or the puppy thinks you are playing some rough game and he will play rough too. 

If a young dog is scared enough, or very dominant, it is the perfect position for you to get a taste of teeth, up close and personal, right in the face. The dog usually lands in a shelter, and is typically euthanized, all because Cesar is such a famous trainer and has helped, oh so many dogs.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

selzer said:


> If a young dog is scared enough, or very dominant, it is the perfect position for you to get a taste of teeth, up close and personal, right in the face. The dog usually lands in a shelter, and is typically euthanized, all because Cesar is such a famous trainer and has helped, oh so many dogs.


the best explanation I ever received was "If a dog lets you alpha roll him, he doesn't need it. A dog that needs it will put you in the ER if you try it"

Pan, the reason it is bad, especially for a young puppy is that the "alpha roll" is basically a statement of "I can kill you if I want" What basis is that for building a relationship?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Assuming the OP is still around. I'll respond. 
It's funny how easy it is to potty train a puppy. But how incredibly hard it is if you don't do some research. With my first dog a year and a half ago it seemed like it was the hardest thing in the world to do. I stopped yelling, took responsibility for him going in the house. Took him out every half hour, treated with a good boy when he went outside and he was house broke in a couple days. But I had to take responsibility first. As far as the biting redirect and deal with it. I used to refer to Athena as a velociraptor. Now she doesn't bite at all.


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