# Possible adoption!



## Nickyb

Hey guys! Mistic is her name and i couldn't have fallen harder! My application has been approved but there are some things she wanted to tell me that arent 100% yet. I am currently awaiting a meet and greet with her now so will keep the thread updated. I haven't met her yet but her foster mom sent me two videos and a few pictures and i can say i am in love! I lost my beloved Princess 6 months ago and I am ready to love again. I would love to get a puppy but with my schedule, it really wouldn't work out at this time.

She is a young Belgian mali/GSD mix and i love that about her (could anyone estimate an age? im thinking 12-18 months). I love the shorter coat and her eyes are amazing. Her only flaw is that the foster mom said she is dog reactive. Although she is bringing her to two additional trainers and a behavioral specialist this week, this flags some concerns for me. I have a lot of friends and familys with dogs and i plan on taking Mistic with me EVERYWHERE! Of course i dont want altercations between the dogs so what would you guys recommend for me?? 

I've never took in a rescue and i don't fully understand exactly what she meant by being dog reactive or how severe her case is. I am willing to put in the work and time but there's only so much i can do. So what do you guys think? if all goes well, What are some things i should watch for when taking in a rescue dog?

ps My neighbor has two intact purebred Mali's, hes taught me a lot about the breed and what it takes in training them. 

Here is the petfinder ad "Beautiful beautiful Mistic!! She is young and SUCH a lovebug! She really wants someone who can love her, the whole drive over she had her eyes glued on me, offering me a paw and constantly trying to get some kisses. She is a sweetheart! Very high energy too, but smart as a whip! She's a wonderful dog, someone will be so lucky to have her. She loves playing fetch and tug and is very interactive and has great focus for treats/toys. Need to do more work with testing her on other animals, but currently she is dog-reactive and would most likely do best in a home without dogs unless her future handler has experience with the Malinois breed specifically. She is spayed, UTD on shots, and HW negative."

Here are some pictures of her.


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## Stosh

She looks like such a sweetheart! I would give her a few weeks before she meets anyone- human or otherwise. There are several article on leerburg.com about bringing an adult dog into your home that you might want to read and hopefully someone here with experience will give you some advice. I'd take it very slowly and make sure she's comfortable with you and trusts you before you venture out. Good luck, she's beautiful!


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## qbchottu

What an interesting combo. I love her look.

Is she DA with all dogs or smaller dogs, female dogs etc? I have a somewhat DA dog and I have to be careful with her. Interestingly enough, she will only turn nasty if I am handling her. My trainer feels she gains confidence from me and feels like a big bad girl when I'm next to her. That's great with bitework, but not so much out and about with other dogs. She gets enough dog contact at home with my other dogs so I don't worry about it too much. However, if I planned on taking her around other dogs, I would probably need to muzzle her in the beginning. Just know that it might not ever get better. Are you willing to accept that if that turns out to be the case? Ask the foster mom exactly what her strengths and flaws are. How bad is the DA? Your foster can tell you a lot about the dog.


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## Nickyb

i will be finding out all the info you asked for and will let you guys know. Of course i will take it slow but i am very optimistic (no pun intended) about this. I have been heart broken ever since the passing of Princess and I think this will be a good thing for me. There is something about this dog that i can't stop thinking about. I have it in my mind and heart that not only does this dog need me, but i need her in return. I will be reading up on some of these rescue articles but if anyone has some favorites, please, shoot them on over to me!
Thanks!


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## Nickyb

Here is an email i just got from the foster. Let me know what ya'll think. 
I'm going Wednesday for our first meet

"Mistic was brought to a kill shelter in Miami as an "owner surrender", owner never stated why they wanted to give her up but we suspect it had something to do with the person not being prepared for the realities of owning a belgian Malinois, they are a high energy high drive breed commonly used in protection work (in police and army K9 services) and they need a job and training and leadership. Whoever the person was did no training with her so that's a bummer! They indicated she was 2 years old, and when we brought her to vet here in Mass they confirmed that age. She does act much much younger (sometimes less serious and a bit wiggly and jumpy and mouthy at times... the first night we took her in we all thought she was 1 yr, she acted like such a young puppy) but that's largely in part because she had no formal training, we're putting all that effort into her now and she is blossoming. "


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## qbchottu

Any info on the dog aggression and any other bad habits? Tell her you are willing to work with her and you know that no dog is perfect, but you would like to have an honest evaluation on the dog.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Where is this dog?

When they did the home check, did they talk to you in general about what this behavior looks like? 

If I wanted a dog to take everywhere, had numerous dogs that I wanted them to interact with, and had not worked with DA before, I would not want a dog that was DA/reactive. It seems like a set up for frustration and if I were a foster with a dog like this I would not recommend her for someone with your expectations, because it's not fair to either of you. 

Talk to your neighbor about what a reactive dog is like. 

I am very sorry for your loss.


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## Nickyb

Thank you for your input and thank you for your condolences. I have also just spent some time reading the whole free book listed here Adopting a Rescue Dog: The First Seven Days From Shelter to Home Learned a couple things but its better than nothing.

Mistic is being fostered about 10 miles away from where I live. They have not done a home check yet but we are in the process of scheduling that as my house is currently being finished up from a renovation. The severity of this matter will of course base my decision whether or not i will adopt her. I believe all dogs deserve a fighting chance, and if there's a chance we can overcome this, i will do everything in my power to help her live a happy life

Here is a quote regarding the only information i was provided in regards to DA, she has not explained in depth about it but i plan to learn much more when we meet on wednesday. 

"Well let me tell you right off the bat your application is 100% approved, you could clearly give any of our dogs a wonderful home and we would be happy to work with you with Mistic or any dog. The only thing we need to consider though is Mistics major fault is her being dog reactive, and even potentially being dog aggressive (getting a second opinion on that one as soon as I can). I am seeing two trainers next week and have promised my family (and Mistic lol) that while she is in my care I will do everything possible to curb these actions through training and work. Of course we never know how far she'll get until we try, but still I really want you to be aware this gorgeous girl has a problem we are trying to work with. She also jumps on people but in the short time Iv'e had her she's catching on quickly we don't appreciate it and doing it much much less! She's a quick learner. I really think she just needs solid discipline and obedience and firm leadership from an experienced owner.

If you are interested, here's a video I made with her today: Training Foster Mistic - YouTube We're working on basic obedience currently.  You can see progress in even those short clips. 

Let me know what you think, if Mistic isn't the dog for you I'm sure you will find that perfect pup out there somewhere!
"
here is the adoption video as well. 




Thank you for the help.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Have you ever seen a dog reactive dog? Or dog aggression? 

She is a smart dog, a working dog, and her training is to be expected, that is what they do. 

She is in rescue, not in danger. 

Your lifestyle seems to involve doing things with other dogs. I personally would rather have a dog who is ready to do that, and is comfortable doing that, than to take a dog, like mentioned above, who may never be that dog.

That's just me. I have 2 dog reactive dogs. One who is a quiet #4 and the other a #1 Dog-Dog Reactivity – Treatment Summary TheOtherEndoftheLeash I would rather they were not like this and am working on it, but would not expose them or expect them to be a dog-rich environment and feel good about it. Dog-Dog Reactivity II — The Basics TheOtherEndoftheLeash What I have to do is ensure that they do not come into contact with another reactive or aggressive dog, because they are going to be in trouble. How can I do this? I can't. 

Ultimately it will be up to you (and the rescue) but with the stated expectations:


> I have a lot of friends and familys with dogs and i plan on taking Mistic with me EVERYWHERE!


 I would be looking for a dog that was a match for the go everywhere, do everything concept.

I tossed this post together: Share dog reactivity experiences because I may be too anti-dog reactivity.


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## Nickyb

Jean, thank you for the insight. Princess did have slight dog aggression and my neighbors two belgian Mali's are extremely dog aggresive... but that's because he trained them to do so, since hes in a wheel chair and can't fend for himself. I believe you are right but theres something in my heart that is pushing me towards this dog and i'm going to pursue that. It will all come down to how she reacts when i go to see her test this weekend. I don't know why but theres just something about this dog that i can't stop thinking about, and i havent even met her yet.

I have also been told that they have 4-5 month old male that loves people and dogs. If Mistic doesnt work out, i will try to learn more about this little guy.


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## gsdraven

Nickyb said:


> I don't know why but theres just something about this dog that i can't stop thinking about, and i havent even met her yet.


Please becareful being set on a dog that you haven't even met yet. Many people fall in love with what they think the dog is and miss all the signs of what the dog *actually* is and may be left very much disappointed later.

Adding a new pet to your home is always an emotional thing and it helps to have someone practical helping you stay grounded during the process so that the best decision is made for the animal and people involved.

Very sorry for your loss and I hope that you find the right dog for you soon.


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## Jax08

You don't have another dog, correct? Are you prepared to take her for lots of training to work on the dog reactivity or dog aggressiveness? It can be tiring and you have to be on your toes! Jax is reactive. Look in the Urgent section for the Wilkes Barre dog name Schultz. He is reactive. Neither are aggressive. You'll see him settle down and lick her through the cage. It's been 2 years of work to get her to let a strange dog do that. Have a trainer lined up...a positive based trainer. And if you need any help, let me know! I will happily share all my trainer has taught me!


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## Jax08

gsdraven said:


> Please becareful being set on a dog that you haven't even met yet. Many people fall in love with what they think the dog is and miss all the signs of what the dog *actually* is and may be left very much disappointed later.
> 
> Adding a new pet to your home is always an emotional thing and it helps to have someone practical helping you stay grounded during the process so that the best decision is made for the animal and people involved.
> 
> Very sorry for your loss and I hope that you find the right dog for you soon.


^^^^and this. Don't be set on adopting her. Be open to the possibility of waiting for the right one.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

This is the truth, Jamie. The reactivity possibly being aggression...and having to call more people in to evaluate - good that they are doing all that. Would I want a dog that needed to jump through all those hoops? Not so much! 



> Many people fall in love with what they think the dog is and miss all the signs of what the dog *actually* is and may be left very much disappointed later.


I would also be looking at how active/how much training I would want to do, and knowing that she is a smart, trainable dog also means that she is smart when it comes to NOT doing what she doesn't want to do.  

We have large public meet and greets and it is fun to watch people who have come to see a specific dog (that probably is not the best match) and end up with a totally different dog (that is). 

And to be honest, I did this with the first dog I adopted - for 3 days - I had fallen in love with her, foster stressed all her positives but was not aware of, or aware of the extent of her prey aggression. I was, very soon, when she tried to climb a bannister to get to my cat, who was hiding in a closet upstairs...not good! But I had done exactly what Jamie mentioned and the foster was unaware of my attachment to my cat being alive (??? I was very clear - and then found out that group did not feel that people should have cats) and just wanted to adopt the dog out so that she could foster a new dog.


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## Nickyb

Very good points everyone, Thank you. It does seem like i had my mind set on Mistic after reading it over but i am more then ready to wait for the right dog for me. I'm doing some more research on DA because i know my girlfriend wants her own dog as well as i want a doberman at some point in my life again!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

It's VERY hard not to do that! 

And I have a bias against dog reactivity just because to me, it's more difficult to deal with than human aggression, because there are very few off leash people I can't stop, but many more off leash dogs that I can control as easily.


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## BowWowMeow

If you like mals, be sure to check out: ABMC Belgian Malinois Rescue - Rescued Belgian Malinois

I agree to slow your head down; a DA dog for your first dog might not be the best choice, especially if you want to be able to take her everywhere with you.


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## Twyla

You've already had several with much more experience giving excellent advice. Though I don't have the experience they do, thought I'd throw a few things out there to think about.

How experienced are you with large working dogs? Are you able to control a 70+ lb dog that is lunging and/or barking and growling? Are you easily excitable or have nerves of steel and able to stay calm? Are you ready to change your lifestyle while you work with a behaviorist/trainer and your dog? If the DR/DA doesn't improve are you willing to leave your dog home to keep your dog and other dogs safe?

Woolf is DA/sometimes HA and has come a LONG way, but still has some to go and will always have to be managed. Doesn't make him any less special to me, there will just be limitations to what we can do or go with him. I always have to be aware of his body language, where his focus is and be aware of surroundings as well. There won't be the get togethers with friends and their dogs simply because it won't be safe for Woolf and the other dogs.

Again, just some things to think about in living with a DA dog.


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## RebelGSD

I will offer a different perspective. My dogs are there for me primarily, not for every other person and dog out there. I do not expect them to love every other dog. Where I live, dogs running loose are rare, so it is not something I need to consider. Most states have leash laws anyway and with some effort reactivity can be managed. I hate dog parties anyway, again, that is not an issue. I do not have the need to have my dogs everywhere where there are other dogs, I chose activities suitable for me and my dog's temperament. With every dog it was different. Most reactive dogs can coexist and even enjoy dog members of their own pack.
If everybody is talked out from considering a reactive dog, all that is left is to kill all of them off. 
I also disagree that dog aggression is worse than people aggression. I have had both, and feel that people aggression is much worse to deal with and more of an issue in terms of liability.
I know plenty of dog owners who are happy with their reactive dog and manage it well.


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## cshepherd9

I just want to jump in and say that all Dog Reactive dogs are not Dog Aggressive. I have a reactive dog who barks and gets excited when she sees another dog out walking but she gets along with and loves other dogs when they are close and she gets to meet them. I just walked her last Saturday with a trainers dog and we worked the dogs together to work on the reactivity and then we walked on a trail where we then allowed Willow to sniff/great the other dog and from that point on Willow didn't react to that dog at all. 
I will say that working with a reactive dog takes some time but if you put the work in it is very rewarding. I am not saying adopt the dog or not, just meet the dog and talk to the Foster mom and see what type of case you have.


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## Jo_in_TX

I agree with Candie and Rebel. 

I agree that dog reactivity isn't the end of the world; however, it's easier to fit in to some lifestyles than others. Teddy is showing signs of dog reactivity at 3 1/2 months, and while I'm going to work like mad on it, I'm not looking at it as the end of the world. She absolutely loves people, and since people visit me, and not generally dogs, that is my main concern.

She will potty in our fenced backyard. We will play with her in our fenced backyard. We will take her for walks and runs ON LEASH. We will go to people parks ON LEASH where she may encounter other dogs on leash. Window shopping? On leash. A cup of coffee downtown? On leash. 

As long as she can behave with the dogs she "knows," I'm going to work on her dog reactivity, but not stress about it, because my lifestyle doesn't require the "perfect" dog.


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## jakes mom

Hi Nicky, 

Before you decide anything you really need to see for yourself how Mistic is with other dogs. You also need to be holding the other end of the leash, to understand just how powerful a really reactive dog can be - especailly in close proximitity to other dogs - or worse still - when a loose dog starts circling. 

Does she have any contact with other dogs at the foster home?

Just because dogs are reactive outside the home, it doesn't automatically follow that they are within the home. Our current dog Jake was fear reactive towards other dogs, but was reasonable with our Dalmation when they first met. They became firm friends.

Our previous dog Sammy was h*** on legs, outside the home - but would let any dog come inside the home with absolutely no problems at all. 

The level of reactivity and reason for the leash aggression also makes a huge difference. Our current dog was fear aggressive, but we sorted it out really easily in 6-9 months. 

Our previous dog Sammy however - a totally different matter - for 9 and a half years he exhausted us. We took him on when his previous 4 owners had given up on him. He was way to
over-enthusiastic / aggressive, incredibly powerful, and hard, hard work. 

Would we do it again - I don't know. Probably - if we were younger - and had the time. 

I don't know about the US but in the UK there are a couple of training facilities that have specially trained dogs - who teach other dogs how to behave. Wish they'd existed and we'd known about them when we had Sammy.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Sue


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## sashadog

Our female GSD rescue is dog reactive, bordering on DA, and I wouldn't do it again. I'm like you and love to take my dogs places with me and have a group of "doggie friends" that I often go hiking, swimming, walking with and Sasha has to be left out of all these activities. I don't need my dogs to be social butterflies but I do need them to at least ignore other dogs. We have worked hard with her (and still are) and still can't trust her around other dogs. It's a ton of work and frustration and for the type of life it sounds like you want with your dog, I wouldn't willingly take on those issues. Just my two cents.


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## sitstay

Nickyb said:


> Her only flaw is that the foster mom said she is dog reactive. Although she is bringing her to two additional trainers and a behavioral specialist this week, this flags some concerns for me. I have a lot of friends and familys with dogs and i plan on taking Mistic with me EVERYWHERE! Of course i dont want altercations between the dogs so what would you guys recommend for me??


If your lifestyle includes a lot of friends and family and their various dogs, please reconsider adopting a dog that is reactive or aggressive to other dogs. It can be a very long, rough road and you could easily never have a dog that is safe or comfortable in the types of situations that you plan on having.

My 6 year old male GSD is severely dog reactive. I have worked with him diligently since buying him from a well recommended breeder at 11 weeks old. I planned on doing hobby dog sports and even got in some decent training in those areas before his reactivity got so bad that I had to quit. 

I have worked on his reactivity and gotten him to the point where he will ignore another dog, as long as the other dog stays about 10-15 feet away. If another dog gets close enough to make physical contact with, my dog will initiate a fight every single time. I can't walk my dog in my own neighborhood because there are too many off leash dogs. I can't visit friends with my dog, I can't go on dog walks with friends. 

I use to think that I could manage his behavior at training venues and out and about with friends. But once that first fight happens (and it will, because sooner or later people let down their guard and things happen), you're told to leave your dog at home. Or not to come back to training until you can guarantee your dog won't either distract with the barking/lunging/etc. or you can guarantee that a fight will not happen...regardless of how many dogs get loose and romp up to yours.

Let this dog go to someone who doesn't want or need a social butterfly. There are so many dogs out there, needing a good home. You can find the right one for you and your lifestyle. I think someone said in a post here that it is a little dangerous to want a dog so badly before even meeting the dog. Truer words are seldom spoken. You have an image in mind of what this dog is like, what your life with this dog will be like. And when you have that kind of energy invested in an idea before even meeting the dog, there is a tendency to explain away or discount anything that doesn't support the idea you already have. I have seen it so many times in my rescue and shelter work. People fall in love with a picture on a website, and have tunnel vision because of it. Nobody wins in that situation. Not the adopter. Certainly not the dog.

Adopt the dog that fits your lifestyle right now. Not the dog that _might _fit it at some later point, _if_ everything goes right. 

Good luck. I can read your sincerity and optimism. Just think about it, and what you're hearing here.
Sheilah


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## Nickyb

Wow, Thank you for the enlightened view on all aspects of DA. I really do appreciate it. 
I am, however, going to meet her today because she deserves it. My perspective has changed and i do have my doubts. I am going into this expecting the worst but hoping for the best.

I am waiting to hear back from a different rescue about a 7month old Mali and a 5 month old Mali mix. If these fail, I will be making a trip up to DRU and see if they have any young dobes that would be right for me. 

I will keep this thread updated and tell you how everything went tonight. Apparently, I will be the first person she meets and they are unsure of exactly how she will react. 

From starting this thread to now, my mindset has 100% flipped around and i thank you.


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## sashadog

Good luck on finding the perfect match  It's more than worth it to wait a little bit for a dog that will be exactly what you're looking for! And I'm glad you're going to meet her. At the very least, you won't have any what-if's if you do decide to go with a different dog. When you do find your perfect pup, I'm sure we'd all love to see some pictures!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Nickyb said:


> Apparently, I will be the first person she meets and they are unsure of exactly how she will react.


Well, she was running through the neighborhood in those videos, right, without being tethered to anyone, seems happy to engage her foster, so I am guessing she's good with people! 

I am glad you are looking at this more closely. 

This to me, is a big idea in rescue adoption - and match:


> Adopt the dog that fits your lifestyle right now. Not the dog that _might _fit it at some later point, _if_ everything goes right.


While we would love for it to only be about the dog, it has to be about the adopter as well. And there are adopters who don't care about sociability with other dogs who would love a dog who needs work in this area, or who might not be fixable in this area. 

Does your neighbor with the DA Malinoiseseses have a fence?


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## Nickyb

I will be sure to take tons of pictures on whomever i choose!

Yes, he has a wooden fence. Both of the dogs absolutely love me, and they wont be a problem. Princess never met the dogs, but i think now that i have a trusted relationship with the two mali's i think there DA would be different.


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## Nickyb

Well, we met last night and all i can say is :wub::wub::wub::wub:.... She is roughly two years old, on the smaller size at around 60-65lbs, Mali/gsd mix with a short coat (this i love!) She needs obedience training since shes had no formal training, although she knows sit and down and seems to be picking up things very quickly. She was an owner surrender in Florida for unknown reasons.
This dog loves affection, i couldn't snap a pic but picture this. She would sit on her hind legs and have her paws out for you to hold them, and does this without putting any pressure on you while you rub her arms. when i stood up i gave her the signal to follow me up, this is when she put her paws on my chest, once again being as delicate as a flower, and rested her chin on my chest while she got rubbies. I don't think i described it as perfect as it really was but i was in heaven. 
She has a ton of energy, but nothing a few jogs a day cant help her out with. Her only flaw (about DA) was brought up briefly during the meet and I think its because the foster mom wasn't sure how to read it. She has her own DA dog living with her and i guess this was just a one time thing. Mistic came from the rescue sick with kennel cough and an infection (forget the name), although this has been cured, she really hasnt had a chance to redeem herself.
They are going to a specialist over the weekend and i am prayingggggg it was just a one time thing. this dog needs a lot of work but i think she would be a great fit with me.

Heres a picture i was able to take.


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## cshepherd9

Wow, she is gorgeous. I hope it works out for you!


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## jakes mom

Nicky

She sounds lovely, and I loved the videos - I so hope she works out for you. 

Sue


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## Stosh

She's a beautiful girl! It sounds as though you're taking what's best for both of you into consideration- good luck!


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## Shade

She really sounds great, training is a requirement regardless of age to match your lifestyle. My first dog was a 8 year old cocker spaniel rescue and even though he was older and had no vices I still did a ton of training with him, it's a great way to bond


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## Nickyb

A sign of relief..... Although still questionable.....
Heres what the foster just sent me. Let me know what you guys think.

"Today was interesting! So what we nipped in the butt was Mistic being reactive. We walked her around the entirely of Horn Pond in Woburn (dunno if youve ever been there, its VERY crowded lots of people biking, jogging, fishing walking dogs, we even saw a horse), and the entire walk around the pond we had her in awesome control! Apparently the biting thing she does, snapping in the air, is a Malinois thing called "clacking"... I looked it up, and sure enough, there it is. It can mean lots of things, including excitement. Some get it so bad their teeth practically chatter with excitement, it doesn't necessarily mean aggression or an upset dog (although even though Laura didn't consider Mistic aggressive I'm still a little wary about the whole thing, she didn't see Mistic up close and personal with another dog, but I will admit my understanding of aggression is probably different from hers).

She was really impressed with Mistic, from what she saw she said she didn't think it was true aggression just Mistic being a excited and some of it was Mistic being a brat trying to see what she can get away with and be a snot to other dogs. We used a prong collar on her and the control we had with her was excellent. We covered the correct way to give a "leash pop" which is basically a light but quick snap with the leash as a means of correcting the dog quickly and painlessly, basically Mistic would try to stare down dogs as they walked past (getting too focussed) and Laura had me give Mistic a quick correction to break the focus and it really did work. It was alittle awkward at first, but once we got moving she was great. I can absolutely show you what I mean via video or in person. We walked by LOTS of dogs, and although she stared/glared, we nicked the problem in butt every time before she had a chance to react, and praised her for moving on. It as really nice.  "


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## llombardo

Nickyb said:


> A sign of relief..... Although still questionable.....
> Heres what the foster just sent me. Let me know what you guys think.
> 
> "Today was interesting! So what we nipped in the butt was Mistic being reactive. We walked her around the entirely of Horn Pond in Woburn (dunno if youve ever been there, its VERY crowded lots of people biking, jogging, fishing walking dogs, we even saw a horse), and the entire walk around the pond we had her in awesome control! Apparently the biting thing she does, snapping in the air, is a Malinois thing called "clacking"... I looked it up, and sure enough, there it is. It can mean lots of things, including excitement. Some get it so bad their teeth practically chatter with excitement, it doesn't necessarily mean aggression or an upset dog (although even though Laura didn't consider Mistic aggressive I'm still a little wary about the whole thing, she didn't see Mistic up close and personal with another dog, but I will admit my understanding of aggression is probably different from hers).
> 
> She was really impressed with Mistic, from what she saw she said she didn't think it was true aggression just Mistic being a excited and some of it was Mistic being a brat trying to see what she can get away with and be a snot to other dogs. We used a prong collar on her and the control we had with her was excellent. We covered the correct way to give a "leash pop" which is basically a light but quick snap with the leash as a means of correcting the dog quickly and painlessly, basically Mistic would try to stare down dogs as they walked past (getting too focussed) and Laura had me give Mistic a quick correction to break the focus and it really did work. It was alittle awkward at first, but once we got moving she was great. I can absolutely show you what I mean via video or in person. We walked by LOTS of dogs, and although she stared/glared, we nicked the problem in butt every time before she had a chance to react, and praised her for moving on. It as really nice.  "


My pup does the snapping in the air when she is excited too It sounds like with a little work and discipline this can be a wonderful dog And even staring/glaring isn't as bad as lunging/barking, I would think if this dog was DA it would be doing more then staring/glaring...its all in the eye of the beholder


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## BowWowMeow

Rafi was leash reactive when I adopted him and he would leap straight up into the air and shriek when he saw other dogs. 

It took me a few weeks to work him through it using LAT and counter conditioning. I also taught him to carry a ball on walks so that he'd have something to concentrate on. 

Malis and drivey gsds need more than just jogging, they really need their brains worked. I have to constantly teach Rafi new things or he gets bored. 

She is a beautiful dog, I hope everything works out for you!


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## Jax08

llombardo said:


> I would think if this dog was DA it would be doing more then staring/glaring...its all in the eye of the beholder


I don't agree. Fixating is a very bad sign to me. Our youngest boxer doesn't make a sound, she drops her head and fixates on the strange dog and then attacks without a sound. A GSD I temp tested and a dobe we fostered, dropped their heads, fixated and attacked cats...again never making a sound. Their goal was to kill. Sierra goes right for the throat of the other dog.

In my opinion, that is a sign of true aggression. I would want to see exactly what this dog was doing before I jumped into adopting her. And if she is truly DA, and not just reactive, the best you can hope for it to teach her to completely ignore other dogs on command.


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## llombardo

Jax08 said:


> I don't agree. Fixating is a very bad sign to me. Our youngest boxer doesn't make a sound, she drops her head and fixates on the strange dog and then attacks without a sound. A GSD I temp tested and a dobe we fostered, dropped their heads, fixated and attacked cats...again never making a sound. Their goal was to kill. Sierra goes right for the throat of the other dog.
> 
> In my opinion, that is a sign of true aggression. I would want to see exactly what this dog was doing before I jumped into adopting her. And if she is truly DA, and not just reactive, the best you can hope for it to teach her to completely ignore other dogs on command.


From all of the descriptions I've read about this dog, I get the feeling that its at best how different people view this dog in different situations. It sounds like the foster mom is not experienced with the breed, but is trying really hard and the outside trainer, which I think is Laura hasn't really stated that this is the issue or at least an issue that can't be worked with(she actually stated the dog was not aggressive).. Can we see this video that they have of her with or around other dogs?


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## sitstay

My Tanner, who is about as seriously reactive as any dog I have ever personally seen, makes absolutely no sound until he attacks the other dog. 

I saw the word "fixate" in the foster parent's description up thread and though "uh-oh, that is not a good sign". It might be an unfortunate word choice, but taken with all the other information, it would give me serious pause.

OP, is there any way you can get a trainer of your own choosing to evaluate the dog in the types of situations you will require the dog to handle? Before you actually adopt this dog? I worked closely with a trainer who initially evaluated Tanner by having a "pushy" dog in a kennel run, and then walking Tanner along the kennel fence to see what his reaction would be. The trainer did the same thing with a submissive dog in the run and then again with Tanner loose in the run and the other dogs being walked past. It was very, very informative for both of us.
Sheilah


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## msvette2u

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> If I wanted a dog to take everywhere, had numerous dogs that I wanted them to interact with, and had not worked with DA before, I would not want a dog that was DA/reactive. It seems like a set up for frustration and if I were a foster with a dog like this I would not recommend her for someone with your expectations, because it's not fair to either of you.





> basically Mistic would try to stare down dogs as they walked past (getting too focussed)


I agree with Jean- this dog is going to be a problem when you take her places (and you do go on outings frequently) and I think it's going to be frustrating and end in failure.

If it was me, I would step back and let another adopt her who doesn't have expectations that she'll need to be around other dogs (you mentioned you have friends over who have dogs frequently).

Can it be worked on? Yes. Will it ever go away? Maybe - maybe not. 
The question is, are you willing to put in the time and effort necessary for it to be managed or livable (not even improved, just _managed_) because the reality is, it may never completely go away.

For me, I would hate to live "on guard" and constantly working on an issue like this.


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## Jax08

sit said:


> .
> 
> I saw the word "fixate" in the foster parent's description up thread and though "uh-oh, that is not a good sign". It might be an unfortunate word choice, but taken with all the other information, it would give me serious pause.


Exactly. 

I was just talking to my trainer on Friday about Jax. She is dog reactive, but not truly dog aggressive. She has changed from Fight to Flight. My trainer told me that there are three actions in reactivity...Flight, Fight or Freeze...all those REACTIONS are based from fear. A dog choosing one of the other doesn't matter, the fear is still there.

Fixate is NOT one of actions in reactivity. If the description is correct, this is not a reactive dog...this is a DA dog. Please do not make any decisions until you personally see what this dog is doing.


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## msvette2u

> until you personally see what this dog is doing.


Unless I'm reading it wrong, the OP walked the dog w/a prong and gave her a leash pop whenever the dog fixated.

And yes, I'm reading it wrong. I think the _foster_ mom wrote this:



> We covered the correct way to give a "leash pop" which is basically a light but quick snap with the leash as a means of correcting the dog quickly and painlessly, basically Mistic would try to stare down dogs as they walked past (getting too focussed) and Laura had me give Mistic a quick correction to break the focus and it really did work. It was alittle awkward at first, but once we got moving she was great. I can absolutely show you what I mean via video or in person.


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## Nickyb

her adoption fee is $375, covers her initial vetting and pull from the Miami shelter ($60), then boarding her for quarantine before transport (120), then transport (120), then more vetting when she arrived (230). Does this seem a little high to you? Although she was brought up from Miami to Boston and did need to get spayed and another vet visit for an infection and kennel cough.
Mistic played with a few dogs yesterday and im going to meet her again today for the final decision. She will have the president of the Belgian Mali rescue group training her today on DA and will make a proper assessment on Mistic.


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## RebelGSD

$375 is very reasonable, if you got a dog for free and had to spay her herself, you would probably pay much more in Boston. Heartworm test, vaccinations and exam would add up to much more. There are many threads about the cost of veterinary services in the health section. ma is more expensive because of the mandatory quarantine for out of state dogs.


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## Nickyb

I assumed so, it seemed high at first but then i thought about it and it makes sense. These rescues put so much time and work into these dogs but they do it for the dogs not the money. 
Tomorrow morning i will have my decision and will let you know.


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## msvette2u

Adoption fees don't just cover the dog you're getting, they also help cover future pulls. 

We'd ask $350-400 for a fully vetted purebred dog (depending on the breed) and that includes spay surgery, any other health issues that needed addressed, a microchip and a rabies vaccine, and whatever other vaccines we'd done plus dewormings.

BTW, the problem w/using a prong to correct DA is that the prong and a 'leash pop' often amps a dog up more, since the neck is such a sensitive area. I have no issue with leash pops for pulling, for instance, a quick pop and a "no" or "no pull", but for dog aggression, they need to be desensitizing her, not amping her up more.


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## jakes mom

Nickyb said:


> Mistic played with a few dogs yesterday and im going to meet her again today for the final decision. /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> It doesn't sound like she is dog aggressive after all, if she's been playing with other dogs. Perhaps it's over excitement because she's on leash.
> _______________________
> Sue


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## Nickyb

Im hoping this is the case, i will see first hand how she reacts around strange dogs and base my decision off of that. I have no problem saying no, but i would much rather say yes as long as everything works out!


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## Nickyb

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

So we met yesterday and to say the least, I'm adopting her today.

First let me start out by saying she will need obedience training and work on how to behave, but I'm more then happy to work with her on this. DA- she isn't dog aggressive at all. They met with the President of the Belgian Mali Rescue Group yesterday and immediately labeled her as a non aggressive dog. Phew, but the foster mom wanted me to see first hand how she reacted. They had two dogs at the meet yesterday, one was a sweetheart and the other one was DA and even barked at me (barked more at me then anyone else) and she handled herself extremely well. She was excited when they brought each dog out and played with the sweetheart (a little rough) but it was nice to see. I love it. Not 1 snarl, bark, bite or anything out of her. 

With the other dog, he came out staring me down, got a little close and started going hay wire, Mistic walked over to him carefully, and gave him a lick on the nose. I wouldn't label her as D/A AT ALL, or dog reactive for that matter. Princess wasn't comfortable around other dogs, she just wanted no part in it, so its really nice to see that Mistic can coexist with other dogs.

Of course we need to work on how ruff we play, but that will come in time. Also, I'm thinking her name will be Zoey, rather than Mistic.

The passing of Princess RIPPED my heart out and I haven't been the same since. She wasn't even a dog, i swear she was part human and understood all of my emotions whether they be bad or good. She was a part of me that can never be replaced, nor would i ever try. Mistic will be a new chapter in my life, I see a little bit of my beloved Princess in her that i will cherish but i will move on in another direction.


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## llombardo

Nickyb said:


> :wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:
> 
> So we met yesterday and to say the least, I'm adopting her today.
> 
> First let me start out by saying she will need obedience training and work on how to behave, but I'm more then happy to work with her on this. DA- she isn't dog aggressive at all. They met with the President of the Belgian Mali Rescue Group yesterday and immediately labeled her as a non aggressive dog. Phew, but the foster mom wanted me to see first hand how she reacted. They had two dogs at the meet yesterday, one was a sweetheart and the other one was DA and even barked at me (barked more at me then anyone else) and she handled herself extremely well. She was excited when they brought each dog out and played with the sweetheart (a little rough) but it was nice to see. I love it. Not 1 snarl, bark, bite or anything out of her.
> 
> With the other dog, he came out staring me down, got a little close and started going hay wire, Mistic walked over to him carefully, and gave him a lick on the nose. I wouldn't label her as D/A AT ALL, or dog reactive for that matter. Princess wasn't comfortable around other dogs, she just wanted no part in it, so its really nice to see that Mistic can coexist with other dogs.
> 
> Of course we need to work on how ruff we play, but that will come in time. Also, I'm thinking her name will be Zoey, rather than Mistic.
> 
> The passing of Princess RIPPED my heart out and I haven't been the same since. She wasn't even a dog, i swear she was part human and understood all of my emotions whether they be bad or good. She was a part of me that can never be replaced, nor would i ever try. Mistic will be a new chapter in my life, I see a little bit of my beloved Princess in her that i will cherish but i will move on in another direction.



I can not tell you how happy I am to hear this and congrats to you for taking the time to research and find out more about this dog...Thank you for giving her a chance and may both of you have a long and happy life together


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## Jax08

Congratulations!! So glad they found someone to properly eval her with dogs!


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## jakes mom

I am so happy for you and Mistic (Zoey).

Please keep us updated.
________________
Sue


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## BowWowMeow

Congratulations! 

Mals and gsds are both rough players. Rafi is such a rough player (a lot of growing and noise when he plays) that I trained him to keep a ball in his mouth while playing with other dogs. The ball also helps manages his overall enthusiasm level (which is very high). 

I think I may have said this earlier in the thread but he was leash reactive when I adopted him. I have never used a prong on him (he is too soft for a prong) and do not use collar corrections at all. He is very smart and ridiculously biddable and positive reinforcement and redirection (counter-conditioning) worked like a charm to get him through the leash reactive phase.


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## msvette2u

> The passing of Princess RIPPED my heart out and I haven't been the same since. She wasn't even a dog, i swear she was part human and understood all of my emotions whether they be bad or good. She was a part of me that can never be replaced, nor would i ever try. Mistic will be a new chapter in my life, I see a little bit of my beloved Princess in her that i will cherish but i will move on in another direction.


This is so special. Congratulations, I'm so glad it's working out for you both 

BTW, while you probably won't need a full 2 week shut down, I'd still advise a "mini" shut down where you don't expose her to a bunch of stuff all at once, for instance, no trips to the pet stores, dog parks (not sure if you're going there anyway), regular parks, what-have-you, until you bond with her and she recognizes you as her new leader  That period of time could be up to 2 weeks, or not, depending on you and her, but she does need some time to destress and settle in.


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## Nickyb

Thank you so much for the kind words, we are doing the home inspection today and if all goes well (knock on wood) she will be mine next week when i get back from vacation (timing couldn't have been worse!). The only thing I am worried about is I just moved into my new house and we are renovating it (80%) complete and it doesn't have a fence yet (the foster mom doesn't either, she just has a 50 foot cable attached to a spring attached to a tree). I would do this as well for a temporary fix, until i can get the surveyors here and fence in the yard. Do you see any problems here?

MSvette2u- I was so excited and already started planning about all the new things we can do and then i vaguely remember reading about the 2 week shutdown. I couldn't agree more with the mini shutdown and i think it would be a fantastic bonding situation for use to learn more about each other.

I'm not going to lie, I gave most of princess's old toys away and now, i have NOTHING for her. If all goes well with the home visit, I'll be dropping some serious cash tonight on her! haha


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## msvette2u

Nickyb said:


> MSvette2u- I was so excited and already started planning about all the new things we can do and then i vaguely remember reading about the 2 week shutdown. I couldn't agree more with the mini shutdown and i think it would be a fantastic bonding situation for use to learn more about each other.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, I gave most of princess's old toys away and now, i have NOTHING for her. If all goes well with the home visit, I'll be dropping some serious cash tonight on her! haha


A cable run is fine until your fence is up, I know you'd never leave her out there unattended 

It's exciting, I know, remember to keep things calm and just become her leader first, then start toting her all over and showing her off! Honestly, it's _all_ about that foundation you're laying down and a week or two isn't too long. She'll need that to get past another transition even though this one's a good one 

Please stop by the Goodwill or 2nd hand store 1st, I found 5-6 stuffies at ours the other day, get the baby safe ones with no button eyes (sewn eyes are best) and no beans in them 
You can find 2nd hand blankets and towels there, too, I always look for the 1/2 off tags for those though.

Also Walmart has some decent toys for a lot less than chain stores. And you cannot be Costco for beds!


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## Nickyb

Shes mine! ill be making a new thread with pictures of her in the picture section. Thank you everyone for your help.


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## ksotto333

.. that's wonderful..have fun..


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## jkscandi50

Congratulations - can't wait to see the pics!


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## JakodaCD OA

congrats !! and YES pictures & updates are a must


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## Nickyb

pictures and intro are in here
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/181990-meet-zoey.html#post2471759


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## Pandora

*Dog Reactive Dogs*

My GS, Zelda, now 3, was just fine with other dogs until 7 months of age when she was attacked by a standard poodle. The fear simmered in her until she was big enough to respond with aggression. Because of a fantastic boarding kennel and a most dog-savvy woman running it, Zelda is learning that other dogs can be fun and not threatening. She has had some dogs come visit and was terrific with them, even sharing her favorite toys (frisbee & ball). She even has a doggy girlfriend, which is unusual, but they have a wonderful time together. She loves going to the kennel, so even when I don't have to be away from home, I schedule some playtimes for her there. 
When we are in the car and another dog runs out in the road or barks at her, she still goes ballistic, but I am working on that. I like that she is being protective, but she could take it down a few notches.


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## Rerun

Pandora said:


> My GS, Zelda, now 3, was just fine with other dogs until 7 months of age when she was attacked by a standard poodle. The fear simmered in her until she was big enough to respond with aggression. Because of a fantastic boarding kennel and a most dog-savvy woman running it, Zelda is learning that other dogs can be fun and not threatening. She has had some dogs come visit and was terrific with them, even sharing her favorite toys (frisbee & ball). She even has a doggy girlfriend, which is unusual, but they have a wonderful time together. She loves going to the kennel, so even when I don't have to be away from home, I schedule some playtimes for her there.
> When we are in the car and another dog runs out in the road or barks at her, she still goes ballistic, but I am working on that. *I like that she is being protective*, but she could take it down a few notches.


You would probably do well to start a seperate thread about this to get some advice on training the dog to not resond in this manner. What you have described is fear aggression to a "T", not protection.


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