# Jen gets convicted



## shilohsmom

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/22142416/detail.html

Some of you may remember Jen and her dog Ranger. Ranger and his doggie friend died an awful death when they were left in the back of a truck on a hot day. Heres the article:

EASTPOINTE, Mich. -- A dog groomer was sentenced on animal cruelty charges Tuesday.

Jennifer Rainey was sentenced to 12 months probation and she must pay an $1,100 fine after prosecutors said she killed two German Shepherds in August by leaving them in a hot vehicle.

Rainey had told police that it was a stranger who closed her truck's windows on Aug. 7.

Watch: Investigation Launched After Dogs Die
Dog Groomer Arraigned 


Rainey said she left her dog, Ranger, and another dog, Cassidy, in the truck while she took another dog, Rebel, inside the Eastpointe Animal Hospital on 9 Mile Road to show coworkers that he had just been certified as a therapy dog.

Rainey said the dogs were inside their own crates in the back of the truck, something she's done several times before. Rainey said the weather was mild and both dogs had water.

"These are show dogs. These are competition dogs. They've been in this truck all the time," Rainey said.

After 30 minutes, Rainey said she checked on the dogs and noticed that someone had closed the truck's side window.

"We opened up the tailgate and pulled the dogs out as fast as we could, but they were already gone. I miss my dog and nothing's going to bring either one of them back," Rainey said.

Eastpointe Lt. Leo Borowsky said many people warned Rainey about potential consequences of leaving the dogs in her truck under those conditions.

Borowsky said he also believes its important to inform the public about the situation because some pet owners may not be aware of the risks of putting pets in those conditions.

Cassidy's owner, Jennifer Doty, said she had been planning to take her dog for her 8-month photos but is now having to say good-bye.

"I was so excited to see her grow up," Doty said.

Looks like the punishment wasn't much more than a slap on the hand.


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## HeidiW

Yes, I remember that incident, I recall thinking how stupid, but held my tongue because her dogs died, and she must be feeling horrible. There were several well know cases of this happening and then it happened to her and this is why I thought it was stupid. she posted it on this forum also. I feel bad it happened, I just don't know how people can not know this by now.


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## SouthernThistle

I remember this incident. There were a lot of different tales going on about it like...she wasn't at an animal hospital...she ran into a Fast Food Restaurant and sat down and ate lunch, etc.

Either way...I'm glad that she's been convicted.


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## DogGone

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistleI'm glad that she's been convicted.


Are we reasonably sure that justice has been served in this case?



> Quote: Rainey had told police that it was a stranger who closed her truck's windows on Aug. 7


I haven't followed this case and I don't know which side of the story is true; however I've had a similar thing happened to me, fortunately my dog was not hurt.

I had just been to a pain management doctor and he prescribed me a bunch of new medications that I wasn't familiar with and he wouldn't take the time to go over them with me. As a precaution I thought I should get an updated version of the PDR or similar reference. So on my way home I stopped at a shopping mall bookstore. Even though I have a handicapped placard I parked far out in the parking lot away from other cars and slightly uphill to prevent shopping carts from damaging my vehicle and to prevent my dog from disturbing the other patrons. I almost always have my tailgate open. It was a hot summer day. My dog usually stays in the truck but on a couple occasions she has jumped out when I was parked, so as a precaution I started making a habit of tethering her to a hard point so she has just enough room to stick her nose out of the back of the tailgate. I left her with a dish of water and parked so the cap windows received a less sun so the dog would be in the relative shade. It took me about a half an hour or hour to select and purchase my book. As I came out of the bookstore I noticed that the tailgate of my truck was closed and a police officer was just leaving. I flagged down the police officer and asked if he had closed the tailgate, and he admitted it. He claimed that some patrons called and complained that they felt threatened by the dog; so when he responded to the call he closed the cap. I went off on the police officer. I told him that the side of the cab were glass and it was obvious that the dog was tethered and if he got close enough to close the cap it should have been obvious that the dog was tethered and no threat to anyone. I pointed out that he was abusing my dog and threatening its life to appease some whiny paranoid patrons.

As I said before the cops around here are bad about documenting things. I was assaulted and old lady was assaulted in my neighborhood and they didn't even bother to file a report on it. I think they're afraid that if they document their actions that they can be more easily held responsible for their incompetence and dereliction. I wouldn't be surprised if my dog had died from heat exposure that I would've been cited or prosecuted for animal cruelty/neglect; and I suspect that the police officer would have never fessed up. I doubt he documented his actions, and even if he did document his actions if things went bad I doubt the police department would come forward with evidence that would exonerate me and prove they were at fault.

The lower tailgate was up/closed; The cap door/tailgate was open when I had gone into the store; when I came out they were both closed.


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## SuzyE

wow, I didn't know it was eastpointe, I recall this story. I don't remember her being a groomer, crazy.


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## selzer

I leave my dogs in the back of my explorer. Summer and Winter, in the hot weather I leave the back up, but I also leave some windows partially down and check on them frequently. At shows, if I do not have a buddy with me, the dogs have to be alone in the vehicle while I do the walk through. If the show is outside, then I park near enough to the ring and keep my eye on them. 

Could it happen? Yes, especially when we stop afterwards for a meal. We generally park where we can watch the car through the window.

I think it is inconceivable that we will not leave the dog in the car ever. I also have a hard time believing that some stranger went into her car and rolled up the windows. But the idea that someone might walk along and shut the back is not inconceivable. So we have to be careful. I take my dogs a lot more often when the temperatures are under sixty because I do not need to worry so much about them. 

While I hate that the dogs died, I also hate that we are convicting people of animal cruelty for this. I mean if someone was saying they wanted to put a dog down, and tried to get a vet to euth the dog, but the vet said it was healthy and wouldn't so the person deliberately shut the dog in the vehicle so that it would die, well, that IS animal cruelty. 

Someone who was not trying to kill the dogs, and either forgot the dogs were in the car, or did not realize how hot it was, I am sorry, I just do not like this. For me it is a tragic accident. People SHOULD be more careful. 

I wonder why everyone who lets their dogs get smooshed by cars is not charged with animal cruelty. The dogs suffer and die. People deliberately allow their dogs to roam, and some are just not careful. The dog is just as dead. 

In either case it is an avoidable accident. In neither case to I believe it to be cruelty. I would think that someone who forgot the dogs were in the car or thought they would be ok for a few minutes, should not be punished the same as someone who cuts off a kittens paws, or puts it in the microwave, or douses it with gasoline and sets it on fire.


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## AbbyK9

I remember this case.

If memory serves, the vehicle was a large pickup truck with sliding glass windows on either side of the cab. It would be perfectly possible for someone to slide those windows shut from the outside of the vehicle, without having to have access to the inside of the vehicle.

As to whether that is what happened ... I don't know. It's certainly possible. 

I know there've been many times where I stopped somewhere - like at 7-11 to pick up some soda - with my dogs in the back of the car, going to, or coming back from an event or the park or some place. I leave the windows open and the dogs have water, plus they're used to being out in the heat because we don't stay inside because it's hot (100+ degrees and we're still out doing stuff).


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## Raziel

I bring my dog EVERYWHERE. But when its too hot for me, its 100 times worse for my boy.
When its warm, I put the air on. But when its hot, I have t roll the windows down.
I wouldnt want someone putting their arm in my car (which Ive seen ppl try to do) or have Kilo possibly (just using an example) bite someone if they came too close to the car.
I try to leave him at home. I will drive all the way back to my house to drop him off.
I wouldnt want to risk my dogs life becaus I need tampons (or WHATEVER)
I feel sorry for this lady. It sounds like she thought it would be fine to leave them in there.


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## RebelGSD

What I find tragic that people who intentionally and knowingly neglect and abandon dogs or take them to a shelter and dump them to be killed go unpunished. This was not intentional or malicious so the punishment does seem out of proportion relative to the punishment that abusive and irresponsible dog owners get (or not get).

I was transporting two dogs once and I stopped at a reststop to use the bathroom. The car was in the shade, cold from the air conditioning running and I was away maybe 7 minutes (I was running both ways). When I ran back to the car, some people were standing around it and they attacked me for leaving the two dogs in the car. What did they expect me to do? Pee in my pants on the car seat? Or drag two German Shepherds into the booth with me (dogs are not allowed inside).


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## selzer

My windows are power so it is impossible for someone to inadvertantly roll them up. And the dogs are crated so no one can just stick their hand in and get bitten. I am not saying a total zero couldn't figure out a way to get injured with my dog, but I try to make it safe. There should be some type of law that says that if someone shoves their hand in your car, you are not liable. 

I do feel sorry for this woman.


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## Raziel

> Originally Posted By: selzerMy windows are power so it is impossible for someone to inadvertantly roll them up. And the dogs are crated so no one can just stick their hand in and get bitten. I am not saying a total zero couldn't figure out a way to get injured with my dog, but I try to make it safe. There should be some type of law that says that if someone shoves their hand in your car, you are not liable.
> 
> I do feel sorry for this woman.


I agree! SO many idiots try to stick their hand INTO my window.
I make sure Kilos head CANT fit out of the window.
Ive seen MOTHERS ENCOURAGE their KIDS to put their hand INTO my window? WTH? 
Then MY DOG gets put down because of YOUR stupidity??
It just angers me.
So I make sure (in the winter) they are down just a crack, unless I can see him.


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## Betty

> Quote: In either case it is an avoidable accident. In neither case to I believe it to be cruelty. I would think that someone who forgot the dogs were in the car or thought they would be ok for a few minutes, should not be punished the same as someone who cuts off a kittens paws, or puts it in the microwave, or douses it with gasoline and sets it on fire.


Is it an avoidable accident if the person is very heavily involved in the breed, has had multiple warnings from people and should just really know better?

While it is not the same as intentionally putting an animal in a microwave these dogs died a horrible agonizing death. It was a cruel death.


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## Vinnie

> Quote: Rainey said she left her dog, Ranger, and another dog, Cassidy, in the truck while she took another dog, Rebel, inside the Eastpointe Animal Hospital on 9 Mile Road to show coworkers that he had just been certified as a therapy dog.


Also said the weather was mild and they were only there for 30 minutes. 

So help educate me. Does anyone know what the temp was there on Aug. 7th? ON a "mild" day, with the windows open and water in the vehicle for the dogs, can this happen in 30 minutes? How long does it take for this type of thing to happen? I want to get into the details and I'm trying to understand. I think it might help others to know how this happens and hopefully it won't happen to someone else. 

I'm gonna do some google surfing. Be back if I find something.







(Maybe even if I don't.)


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## Jax08

Vinnie...this is interesting
http://ggweather.com/heat/#study


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## Jax08

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2009/08/11/news/srv0000006085005.txt

This article says the temperature that day was 78 F. According to the above study, the temperature in the vehicle after 30 minutes would have been approximately 114 F (if the vehicle was directly in the sun).


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## roxy84

it was 73 degrees that day in Detroit. (as stated above, article staes 78 degrees--so even worse)

you DO NOT leave a gsd in a vehicle for 30 minute when it is 70+ degrees. at 70 degrees even with windows open, a vehicle can reach 95 degrees in less than 20 minutes. 

who wants to gamble on how long their GSD can handle close to 100 degree temperatures? no one in their right mind would want to take that gamble.

it seem people think it is ok, but fail to realize an object made of metal and glass will heat up very quickly.

a fine and 12 months probation is the least she should have gotten for the sheer stupidity (even if someone did close the windows-which i doubt) of leaving a dog alone for 30 minutes on a summer day.

if it is warm out and you know you will need to stop somewhere for more than just a few minutes, in and out, then leave your dog at home or take them home then go take care of your business.

i do not have one iota of sympathy for her. ignorance is not an excuse in my book.


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## Jax08

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_HotCars.php

And here's an article on how long it would take before coma, dehydration and death for a dog


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> who wants to gamble on how long their GSD can handle close to 100 degree temperatures? no one in their right mind would want to take that gamble.


Jax can't even handle agility in the evening in the summer. We have to do it first thing in the morning or she gets to hot and heads for the shade regardless of what you might be in the middle of. I can't imagine leaving her in a car for 30 minutes.


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## Vinnie

Thanks Michelle & Derek. I'll add to it what I've found (which is somewhat repetitive now).

Average temps in MI in August = 70-85"

From SFSU here http://ggweather.com/heat/
Average temp rise in 30 minutes = 34 deg F
“Cracking the windows had little effect”

And another from Stanford here http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7631
Stating that “sunlight can heat cars interiors to lethal temperatures in just *30 minutes*, even if the weather is relatively cool, a new US study has found.”

Also for a collection of articles and some flyers & posters to print out go to http://www.mydogiscool.com


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: roxy84you DO NOT leave a gsd in a vehicle for 30 minute when it is 70+ degrees. at 70 degrees even with windows open, a vehicle can reach 95 degrees in less than 20 minutes.


Maybe in some parts of the country, especially where humidity is high, or in a car without tinted windows, and in the sun. Anywhere in the 70's is very comfortable inside a parked car where I live, depending on the car. We've parked in the shade with all the windows down a few inches on a day in the high 70's with a slight breeze while we were at Costco and it wasn't even close to 95 degrees inside when we got back. I hate heat, and I wouldn't have even broken a sweat.

I woudn't do it in MY car (Audi A3 wagon), but in the SUV with tinted windows, it's pleasant even into the 80's as long as there's a cross breeze. Not with the windows closed, and not in full sun, but under the right circumstances, perfectly safe for humans AND dogs.


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom, but under the right circumstances, perfectly safe for humans AND dogs.


sorry, but i think that just a dangerous guessing game to play. i wouldnt even leave my dog alone in a car if the interior temp would only get to 80-85 degrees. it is still hot for a gsd. i just cant see the real necessity of leaving a dog in a car for anything more than a few minutes, anyway (such as getting gas, picking something up in a minimart...).

maybe its just me, but i guess i dont get why people take their dogs out when they know they will have to leave the dog in the car for any extended amount of time.


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## Jax08

Tinted windows make the heat worse, way worse. Black just sucks the heat right in. I great up in MI and the humidity there can be pretty bad.


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## Raziel

> Originally Posted By: Jax08Tinted windows make the heat worse, way worse. Black just sucks the heat right in. I great up in MI and the humidity there can be pretty bad.


Did not think of that! Good point.


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## HTS

type the address in the search http://maps.google.com/ 18243 E. 9 MILE RD. EASTPOINTE, MI, thats where the dogs died.

73 or 78 degrees, there was no shade, the doge Dakota was in full sun and she was grooming dogs for an hour and a half before she checked on the dogs.


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## Vinnie

> Originally Posted By: HTS73 or 78 degrees, there was no shade, the doge Dakota was in full sun and she was grooming dogs for an hour and a half before she checked on the dogs.


An hour & a half! That's crazy. 
I thought the article said a 30 minutes. _(Not that it really changes anything as I've learned tonight that 30 minutes is too long on some days.)_


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## Jax08

All the articles say 30 minutes. Where did you read 90 minutes?


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## Vinnie

Are you asking me where*I* read 90 minutes? If so, I read it in HTS's post. The part I just quoted.


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## Jax08

No..I was asking HTS where he/she got the 90 minutes from.


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## HTS

Local News

http://www.wxyz.com/mediacenter/[email protected]


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## HTS

I was wrong, it was an hour and 45 minutes!

see link in previous post!


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: Jax08Tinted windows make the heat worse, way worse. Black just sucks the heat right in.


In our SUV it really helps to keep the heat down, a lot of the sun is reflected off the windows rather than going through and heating up the interior. The difference between getting into my little wagon, (or my prior 4 door sedan), and the SUV on a hot day is not even close. My Audi gets SO hot, and the MDX just doesn't get that bad, ever. If it's not the tinted windows then I don't know what it is. 

I figure if I'M comfortable, the dogs are safe too since I don't handle heat well, but I'm sure 78 degrees and high humidity is much warmer than 78 degrees with low humidity and a light seabreeze off the SF Bay.


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## Vinnie

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomIf it's not the tinted windows then I don't know what it is.


Not sure, I'm just guessing, but I did read that it was the sun hitting the dash and steering wheel and heating those up that causes the vehicle to heat up. Maybe with the tinted windows the dash and steering wheel are shaded? Just a guess.


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## RebelGSD

Tinting can reduce the amount of solar (transmitted) radiation reaching the interior of the car - and responsible for the overheating - by up to 65%.


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## roxy84

tint, windows down, water in the car....i dont care. in 30 minutes in 70+ degree heat a car can still get way too hot for a gsd. my car is tinted to the legal limit. after sitiing in the sun on a 70-80 degree day, it is very warm in there and very uncomfortable.

people seem to want to come up with scenarios where it MIGHT not get so hot, when the message should be just dont leave your dog in the car for any extended period on any day that is remotely warm, regardless of whether or not you have tinted windows, water in the car, cracked windows, etc, etc, etc........

is anyones schedule so insanely crazy that they must have their dog with them when they go shopping or anything else that will take some time?

if it was really 1+ hours, then her punishment was grossly underwhelming.


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## Jax08

It must be something else in the window to reflect the heat in the newer cars. I know that if you get into a car with black tinted windows on hot day you can't even breathe so there must be something else in the glass tint than what i'm thinking of.


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: roxy84tint, windows down, water in the car....i dont care. in 30 minutes in 70+ degree heat a car can still get way too hot for a gsd.
> 
> people seem to want to come up with scenarios where it MIGHT not get so hot, when the message should be just dont leave your dog in the car for any extended period on any day that is remotely warm, regardless of whether or not you have tinted windows, water in the car, cracked windows, etc, etc, etc........
> 
> is anyones schedule so insanely crazy that they must have their dog with them when they go shopping or anything else that will take some time?
> 
> if it was really 1+ hours, then her punishment was grossly underwhelming.



^^^^^ what he said...

All the points are truly irrelevant. These two dogs died a horrible death.


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## Kayos and Havoc

Jen is not a criminal. I do not think as a previous poster said, that justice was served here. All I have to do is watch animal cops detroit to see that Michigan has difficulty with animal cruelty investigations. We can convict Jen but let the pit fighters go die to lack of evidence. Too bad and that is a crime in itself.

I have left a dog in the cargo area of my Tribeca on a 90 degree day with the windows open, in the shade, with tinted windows - while I have another dog out working. The car is as comfortable as the outside is. 

I doubted their was negligence when this happened and I still do not think she was intentionally negligent. 

The whole thing is just sad.


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## Vinnie

I agree with Kathy. I don't know this Jen but I can't imagine that anyone would intentionally leave their dogs in a vehicle to die this way. It is very sad.









I'm just hoping that we all can learn something here. Maybe we don't have to make the same mistake.


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## sagelfn

> Originally Posted By: shilohsmom...Jennifer Rainey was sentenced to 12 months probation and she must pay an $1,100 fine...


I don't see anything wrong with the sentence..she's not doing jail time, paid a small fine, and has a year probation. I don't know what the conditions of her probation are but it can't be THAT bad. It was a horrible mistake but 2 dogs did die..hopefully someone will hear her story and think twice


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: KathyWJen is not a criminal. I do not think as a previous poster said, that justice was served here. All I have to do is watch animal cops detroit to see that Michigan has difficulty with animal cruelty investigations. We can convict Jen but let the pit fighters go die to lack of evidence. Too bad and that is a crime in itself.


people that leave their dogs in a warm car (and by all accounts an unshaded area) for an extended period are negligent. period. there is no legitimate reason why this must be done. there have been enough tragic cases regarding this subject that ignorance cannot be an excuse for anyone.

because there are more heinous things being done to animals that go unchecked does not in any way excuse the lesser offenses against animals that depend on us to keep them safe. ideally, the prosecutions would be more agressive in all cases of animal cruelty. she was lucky that she was punished so lightly.

and i must add, just because you dont do something intentionally does not absolve anyone of negligence. if this was the case, all types of stupid behavior that causes harm to people/animals could be excused away because the harm wasnt intended. that doesnt fly.


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## Syaoransbear

Seems like there's too many different stories about this to make proper judgement though. It was an accident. You don't see people getting charged with animal cruelty when their dog gets into the garbage can and eats enough chocolate to cause death, even though it is the owners fault much in the same way.


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## RebelGSD

We should also punish the same way every owner whose dog runs into the street, get hit by a car and dies a horrible death. That is negligent too.


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom, but under the right circumstances, perfectly safe for humans AND dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but i think that just a dangerous guessing game to play. i wouldnt even leave my dog alone in a car if the interior temp would only get to 80-85 degrees. it is still hot for a gsd. i just cant see the real necessity of leaving a dog in a car for anything more than a few minutes, anyway (such as getting gas, picking something up in a minimart...).
> 
> maybe its just me, but i guess i dont get why people take their dogs out when they know they will have to leave the dog in the car for any extended amount of time.
Click to expand...

80-85 is not too hot for a GSD!







Our dogs love to ride in the car, and on days when the weather conditions make it safe to do so, we take them with us a lot. Fortunately, I don't live in Arizona or Florida and there are actually very few days where it would be a concern. We always take into consideration where we're going - in the Bay Area you can drive a half hour in any direction and the temperature can vary as much as 25 -30 degrees, so if we're going inland where it's warmer they stay home and if we're going towards the bay or the coast where it's cool they can come with. 

We're not stupid about it, but it's a LOT hotter in my garage (where my dogs are when I'm not home) on a 90-100 degree day than it is in the SUV on a 75 degree day, and at our old house that didn't have air conditioning it was a lot hotter inside the house on a really warm day. Obviously, whatever the conditions that day were in Michigan it was too much for those dogs, and that's a tragedy.


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: Syaoransbear It was an accident. You don't see people getting charged with animal cruelty when their dog gets into the garbage can and eats enough chocolate to cause death, even though it is the owners fault much in the same way.


?????????????????? i would liken what she did to knowing there was choclate in a garbage can, bringing the garbage can into your house, taking off the lid, and leaving your dog unsupervised in the house.

she KNEW the dogs were in the car on a summer day. she knew how long they were in the car. she did not, by all accounts, check on the dogs in any timely fashion (obviously).

her only defense could be she didnt know a car would get so hot in 30 minutes, and IMO that level of ignorance is downright scary.


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## HTS

I know of somone who got charged with the exact same charge just for being over on there dog limit and got convictet. Their dogs were the perfect picture of health, very well taken care of, well fed and vettet. They just were over their limit by 2 dogs (pups). 

So she actually KILLED two dogs on purpose or not that doesen't matter. She has been working with dogs for years as a Dog groomer and trainer JENNIFER RAINEY DID KNOW BETTER! 

Obviously "cruelty and abandonment" can be used for anything animal related.


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## SuzyE

look at the number of kids that die every year cuz of the same thing


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## Pedders

> Originally Posted By: SuzyElook at the number of kids that die every year cuz of the same thing


And the parents/guardians should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


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## Vinnie

Aren’t some of us acting rather sanctimoniously? Sorry but back here in the real world – we’re not all perfect people. We make mistakes. I just hope to educate myself so I don’t make the same mistakes others have made. You know – learn from mistakes. She didn’t intend to kill her dogs. It was a mistake. I feel very badly for her and I hope it never has to happen again. To anyone. 

Many, many people leave their dogs in a vehicle for more than just a few minutes. There are a few reasons that come to mind. For example, those involved in some sort of showing or competition with their dogs do this regularly. Is it wrong? I don’t think so.


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## Jax08

It's easy to be sanctimonious with the anonymity of the internet, isn't it? I know I'm guilty of it also.

I leave Jax in the car in the summer. I leave the car locked and running with the AC on, park in the shade, and only for a few minutes. but I can see where someone who leaves their dogs in the car alot would get comfortable doing so which can, and has, lead to such tragedy. 

The dog shows I've been to either had the vehicles open with a person there or the dogs were out. I didn't see any left in a closed vehicle unattended.

I park my car in the shade in the summer while working. A couple of times it was so hot when I left to go home I had to roll the windows down and turn on the AC to get the air moving. It literally took my breathe away, it was so hot I could not breathe in. 

I feel terrible for the dogs. I can only imagine their horrible deaths. I also feel bad for Jen Rainey. She has to live knowing those dogs died a horrible, preventable death. And I hope that we can all learn to not let our guards down and become comfortable leaving our animals in vehicles for long periods of time unattended.


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## Betty

My dogs are left in the vehicles for hours during training Vinne and that is in the Florida Sun/humidity.

But because I KNOW that this is going to happen we have a used vehicle that we call the Doc Mobile. It's a van type thing and all doors open.

I park in the shade.

I carefully moniter my dogs and do not leave them alone for an hour and a half without checking on them.

And if it seems too warm, I run the air.

And before we got the van I would have crates and physically set them up in the shade if need be.

We now have aluminum crates with a padlock. If I stop for lunch I can open the van up and sit where I can watch the vehicle. Most times I get something to go though.

We almost always have a dog with us on errands. A lot of times one of us runs into the store and the other one will sit in the vehicle with the air going.


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## Betty

One of the vet's I use does not have much shade in the parking lot. If I have an appointment where I am taking more then one dog it can be a juggling act if I'm alone.

The vet is normally more then happy to crate the extra dog for me while the other one is being examined/treated. I try not to do this, cause I'm paranoid about germs there, but it has worked if I am unable to find someone to go with me.


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## AbbyK9

> Quote:if the interior temp would only get to 80-85 degrees. it is still hot for a gsd.


Sorry, but I just don't see where 85 degrees would be "too hot" for a German Shepherd, especially a dog that is used to going outside for extended periods of time or maybe lives in a home that doesn't have air conditioning. 

There are more places in the world where people don't have air conditioning than there are places that do. Their dogs seem to be doing fine, even with temperatures and humidity being high. My dogs are fine in hot weather and high humidity - we've gone through many a Virginia summer where it was 110 degrees with 75% humidity and my dogs did just fine outside, training, walking, hiking, etc.

There are working dogs in Iraq who have never been in heat like that before their deployment - take the dogs being deployed from, for example, Fort Drum (where I'm at now). That's a big change in climate. Yet they acclimatize and do fine - AND they're actively working, not just going for a walk or waiting in the car.

I just don't see how 85 degrees is "too hot".



> Quote:i just cant see the real necessity of leaving a dog in a car for anything more than a few minutes, anyway (such as getting gas, picking something up in a minimart...).


Define "a few minutes"? Stopping in to the minimart can turn into 10, 20 minutes if the person in front of you has a problem with the cashier, or is paying in pennies, or there's a long line. So is that "a few minutes"? Do you have control over how long it will take you inside the store, even if you stop in for just a soda, or just to get gas?


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## Jax08

Chris...I think the difference in being acclimated to an environment where temps rise well over 100 and being in the car is there is no air movement in the car and that temperature rise in a car happens so fast that a living creature (because every year babies die the same way) can not adjust. 

I'd be interested to hear from a medical personnell on how long it would take for a body to adjust to a temperature change like that.

85 is to hot for Jax. She doesn't seem to adjust. She just heads for shade and "shuts down" if we are doing any training.


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: Historian
> 
> Define "a few minutes"? Stopping in to the minimart can turn into 10, 20 minutes if the person in front of you has a problem with the cashier, or is paying in pennies, or there's a long line. So is that "a few minutes"? Do you have control over how long it will take you inside the store, even if you stop in for just a soda, or just to get gas?


a few minutes. 5 minutes. 10 minutes tops. not once in my entire life has it taken me more than 5-7 minutes to do what i need to do at a minimart. a few people in front of me is a matter of 2-3 extra minutes, not 10-20 minutes.

anyway, my gripe is with people who know they need to do shopping that will obviously take much more time and they bring their dogs with them anyway. to be quite honest, as much as the heat concerns me, i simply do not trust people when leaving my dog in a parking lot where i cant see her. i have enough iopportunities to take my dogs out in the car where there is some activity involving them that i dont need to take them out for my own shopping trips.

i know some dogs can get acclimated to warmer temperatures, but there is no way around how warm and stagnant the air in a car can get, and i dont think it is worth guessing as to whether or not there is enough breeze, low humidity, etc...to be sure my dog will be comfortable.


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## shilohsmom

I've been following the case for awhile. I think what got everyone so upset was the changes in her story, ie. going out for short lunch, working for two hours. Heres a couple of the items I'm referring to:

Video of her arraingment-stating she was warned many times about leaving her dogs in the car:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/21251168/index.html

Articles:

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2009/10/10/news/srv0000006595549.txt

The article:
A 26-year-old Madison Heights woman has been charged with animal abandonment/cruelty following the death of two German shepherds that were left in the cab of her truck during 75-degree weather in August, Eastpointe police said.

Jennifer Rainey stood mute at her arraignment Friday before 38th District Judge Carl Gerds III. She was released on $10,000 personal bond and ordered to return to court at 1 p.m. Oct. 27 for a preliminary examination. If convicted, she could be sentenced to one year in the county jail, fined $2,000 and ordered to perform 300 hours of community service.

She has retained her own attorney.

Detective Steve Sellers told the judge Rainey came to the East Detroit Animal Hospital on Eight Mile Road on Aug. 7 with two dogs in the cab of her truck. Sellers said the woman went inside the animal hospital where she was employed as a private contractor doing dog grooming. Sellers said she worked for two hours before returning to her vehicle to check on the animals.

Sellers said the windows of the vehicle were closed and there was no water inside for the animals. Rainey said she left the windows partially open and someone must have walked by and shut them.

Detective Lt. Leo Borowsky said it was a case of animal neglect that caused their death. He said police have questioned witnesses who said

they saw Rainey leave animals in a hot vehicle in the past.

"She was warned by people who handle show dogs not to leave them in a closed cab," Borowsky said. "Experts told us that even with temperatures in the mid-70s it was too hot to be in the bed of a truck."

Sellers said he did not object to the personal bond because Rainey has no prior police record and has ties to the area. He said she is not a threat to society.

Rainey's attorney, Robert Harrington of Troy, said his client never closed the window.

"The windows were never closed," he said. "Jennifer is dedicated to dogs and she always has been."

Jennifer's mother, Jane Rainey, also of Madison Heights, said Jennifer has a dog that is 18 years old. She said her daughter would never hurt an animal.

"My daughter loves dogs — all animals," she said. "Someone obviously walked by her truck that day and closed the windows as a prank."

Eastpointe Detective Lt. Leo Borowsky said he believes police have a good enough case for conviction. He said police found the windows closed when they responded to the parking area and saw the two German shepherds in the the truck.

"Even if the windows were open, it was still too hot — in the mid-70s — to have dogs in the cab," Borowsky said. "It gets very hot in there because of the sun beating down on the roof."

Borowsky said police are warning people not to lock their children or pets in a vehicle when the weather outside is too hot or too cold.

"You can't take that chance during warm weather even if the windows are open," Borowsky said.

Dr. Susan Sodderberg of East Detroit Animal Hospital was not available for comment on Friday. Borowsky said the hospital is not to blame for the death of the two dogs.

Heres another story:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/20349992/detail.html

And the actual article:

EASTPOINTE, Mich. -- A dog groomer accused of killing two German shepherds by leaving them in a hot car was arraigned in an Eastpointe courtroom on animal cruelty charges Friday.

Jennifer Rainey told police it was a stranger who closed her truck’s windows on Aug. 7, causing heat to build and kill the two German shepherds dogs inside.

Watch: Investigation Launched After Dogs Die
Dog Groomer Arraigned 


Rainey said she left her dog, Ranger, and another dog, Cassidy, in the truck while she took another dog, Rebel, inside the Eastpointe Animal Hospital on 9 Mile Road to show coworkers that he had just been certified as a therapy dog.

Rainey said the dogs were inside their own crates in the back of the truck, something she's done several times before. Rainey said the weather was mild and both dogs had water.

"These are show dogs. These are competition dogs. They've been in this truck all the time," Rainey said.

After 30 minutes, Rainey said she checked on the dogs and noticed that someone had closed the truck's side window.

"We opened up the tailgate and pulled the dogs out as fast as we could, but they were already gone. I miss my dog and nothing's going to bring either one of them back," Rainey said.

Eastpointe Lt. Leo Borowsky said many people warned Rainey about potential consequences of leaving the dogs in her truck under those conditions.

Borowsky said he also believes its important to inform the public about the situation because some pet owners may not be aware of the risks of putting pets in those conditions.

Cassidy's owner, Jennifer Doty, said she had been planning to take her dog for her 8-month photos but is now having to say good-bye.

"I was so excited to see her grow up," Doty said.

The Macomb County Prosecutor’s Office authorized misdemeanor charges of animal abandonment and cruelty against Rainey on Monday.

After the arraignment Friday, Rainey was released on a $10,000 personal bond.

If convicted, she could spend up to a year in jail and a $500 fine.

I could go on but the point is the story just kept changing as far as how long these poor dogs were left in the truck.


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## jarn

How sad.

On road trips I sometimes leave the dogs in the car while we eat, keeping the car within sight and checking on the dogs regularly. Normally we get take out but not always.

But now I think we'll always get take out. Scary. 

I never leave the dogs in the car otherwise. If I'm running errands, the dogs stay at home. If we're going somewhere with the dogs in town and we need to stop, one person stays with the dogs.


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## SouthernThistle

Seems to me that there are differences here...

There are members saying, "I leave my dogs in cars/SUVs on 70+ degree days......*in the shade, with all windows open, and I check on them often.*

That's quite a bit different than in the cab of a pick-up truck...with just the side windows slid open....in the sun. 

I've sat in a pick-up truck with the side windows open, in the sun, with the windows up (no, I wasn't locked in the truck while the driver walked away







He just said, "this won't take long.") I have to say it gets hot and stuffy QUICKLY (and this was in NYS.) 

However, I will say that I don't think Jen is as bad as the show handler that left the dogs in her van overnight because she was too tired/didn't have room in the house for their crates or whatever that story was.


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## Betty

On my wish list is one of those remote control thingy's a lot of PD's use. From what I understand it can also be removed and installed on a new vehicle if you trade in.

Still not fool proof, but another layer of protection.


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## selzer

Every year there is a dog show on the fourth of July. 

In NE Ohio, the temperatures in July are usually ninety something. And at the polo grounds, it is usually hotter than, well that word they always change into something they think is more appropriate.

I usually attend the show alone with two or more dogs. The dogs are left in my SUV with windows down and the back open. Sometimes I buy a bottle of spring water for the dogs, but I give them that outside of the car and not while they are lying around inside.

After Rally and TDI and if there is herding, I pack up my lawn chair and head to a local eatery where I meet like-minded individuals for lunch. We TRY to park in the shade. We cannot just stop home and drop the dogs off -- that would take three hours. We park where we can watch our vehicles, but I do not have a sensor in the car that is connected to an alarm on my key chain that lets me know when the inside temp reaches 100 or more. If I could find something like that, maybe I would.

We spend a good 30 minutes having lunch. 

Whoever leaves their dogs in their enclosed car with the AC running, are you aware that more police dogs die from this than I want to consider? One here in Ashtabula county died that way a year or so ago. Sad. The AC unit just died. The dog also died. I think it has happened here more than once. 

Police dogs die this way, but cops will write you up quick for doing this. The head of a humane society had this happen to her, but she will write you up for it too. People have left babies and toddlers in their car and they die this way too. Tragic. Sad. But animal cruelty???

With an animal cruelty conviction, you will lose your AKC privledges, sometimes for ten years, sometimes for life. That means no more dog shows, etc. So this is a harsh penalty. 

I do not know Jen, but I certainly feel for her. I am sure she is devastated from losing her dogs this way. Someone on the other thread felt the police officer was cold for writing a ticket for lose dog after he shot the dog, but isn't this just as cold?

It is 29 degrees outside, I have two dogs currently curled up and sleeping in crates in my car. I stopped here on my way home from training classes. My dogs spend a lot of time in the car and rarely make a peep. I am always afraid that I might forget they are in there.


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## Kayos and Havoc

My dogs also are very quiet in the car but thankfully they stand up when I stop so I can see them behind the cargo barrier. 

I don't know Jen either just from the boards. Most of us that show dogs leave dogs in vehichles for short periods of time with windows open. I am more worried about my dog being stolen than I am of him dying in the heat. 

One of my very good friends has a truck with a camper shell on it. She leaves her 2 GSD's crated in the back with the tailgate down and windows opened as well. it would not be hard for a cruel person to come by and close all that up on a warm day.

You know there was a couple that left ther child in the hot car and the child died were never charged. Each one thought the other one had taken care of the child. Horrible accident, the child died but they were never charged as they could not prove negligence. 

It seems as if the "law" choses to make examples sometimes for a political statement - "see what we are doing for the good of animals" . We convicted this nice lady that left her dogs in th car even tho it appears another person closed the windows. 

If they want to do something good for animals they need to start over.


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## selzer

I am worried that a PETA person might try to give them poison. But I have to leave the back up. Someone did steal someones dogs not too long ago at one of our shows. That is scarey too.

And leaving the car running always presents the fear that someone might steal my car with my dogs in it. That would kill me, especially in the summer. I mean, I may lower the windows and open the back for my dogs, but what is a thug going to do with a couple of GSDs. Sell them for bait dogs. Or just close up the car when he abandons it, with the dog inside and frying.


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## Raziel

> Originally Posted By: selzerI am worried that a PETA person might try to give them poison. But I have to leave the back up. Someone did steal someones dogs not too long ago at one of our shows. That is scarey too.
> 
> And leaving the car running always presents the fear that someone might steal my car with my dogs in it. That would kill me, especially in the summer. I mean, I may lower the windows and open the back for my dogs, but what is a thug going to do with a couple of GSDs. Sell them for bait dogs. Or just close up the car when he abandons it, with the dog inside and frying.



I think the SAME WAY! People are evil!
I dont want someone giving him chocolate or rat posion.
(very rare, im sure)
I lock my doors i the winter & open the sunroof a bit. Only a crack.
My windows are tinted so noone can see hes in there.
When its warm, he stays at home.


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: Angel R
> When its warm, he stays at home.


WOW!! somebody actually gets it.


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## Kayos and Havoc

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: Angel R
> When its warm, he stays at home.
> 
> 
> 
> WOW!! somebody actually gets it.
Click to expand...

Trust me.... we all "GET IT".


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## Amaruq

> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom, but under the right circumstances, perfectly safe for humans AND dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but i think that just a dangerous guessing game to play. i wouldnt even leave my dog alone in a car if the interior temp would only get to 80-85 degrees. it is still hot for a gsd.
Click to expand...

WOW this amazes me. I can't remember how many times my HOUSE was hotter than this just this past summer, which by our standards, was a "cool" summer. There are vehicles that just simply do not get as hot as many others. My van is one of these and I often run into WM for more than "a few minutes" with dogs in the van in the summer. I do utilize common sense and know if there is a possibility of my van becoming too warm (then of course I do not leave them). I do NOT leave them in there for extended periods of time but my van simply does not get overly hot unless the outside temps are way over 90.... but 80-85 *in a vehicle*, a healthy dog should not have an issue with IMO. That is "average" summer temps for a good portion of the US. My van (windows up and in the sun) is almost always cooler than my house in the summer.


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## Betty

> Quote:Whoever leaves their dogs in their enclosed car with the AC running, are you aware that more police dogs die from this than I want to consider? One here in Ashtabula county died that way a year or so ago. Sad. The AC unit just died. The dog also died. I think it has happened here more than once.


I know I'm aware of it and it can happen. Although I personally can't think of the last time my car stopped running or the a/c unit died.

That is why, on the few occassions that I do close up the vehicle and run the air I'm checking it every few minutes.

Florida heat and humidity leaves very little room for error.

The systems I've looked at that automatically turn on the air at a certain temperature also have the alarms that run if for some reason the system fails or the temp reaches a certain degree.

I would think more dogs die in vehicles where the person did not have air running then ones which were running Sue.


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## Betty

> Quote:And leaving the car running always presents the fear that someone might steal my car with my dogs in it. That would kill me, especially in the summer. I mean, I may lower the windows and open the back for my dogs, but what is a thug going to do with a couple of GSDs. Sell them for bait dogs. Or just close up the car when he abandons it, with the dog inside and frying


When I do have the van running, the car is locked and I have the second set of keys. I am also normally in sight of the vehicle.

WHen I have the doors open, my crates are aluminum, pretty darn heavy, even without a dog in them and they are padlocked. 

Most of the time that my dogs are left in the vehicles for any extended period is at training or dog events. We kind of help look out after each other and the dogs.


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## Jax08

I take my remote lock with me and lock all the doors. having the car stolen with my dog in it terrifies me also. Take the car! I'm good with that...that's what insurance is for....but please leave the dog!!! But I only leave for a few minutes to run into a mini mart. Anything longer then I don't take her unless I can take her with me.


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## GregK

> Originally Posted By: shilohsmom Rainey said she left the windows partially open and someone must have walked by and shut them.


Hmmmm...is this a common thing - people walking by cars and closing the windows???


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## Kayos and Havoc

It was a truck with a camper shell with sliding windows and yes it can happen.


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## SouthernThistle

> Originally Posted By: selzerI am worried that a PETA person might try to give them poison.


Wasn't it a couple of years ago in Georgia that some PETA people released a stock trailer load of hogs headed to market during rush hour when the drivers of the trailer stopped to eat?


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## VonKromeHaus

In even a small amount of heat, a truck bed with a canopy on it gets ROASTING after awhile even with the windows open. There was a picture of the parking lot and there was NO shade at all. What somemembers are posting about leaving their dogs in the car is different, it was a truck bed with a canopy on it, No insulation in it to keep the heat out. Jen disappeared off the boars after this incident. she has however, now had her G litter, like 5 litters in one year. She also has a new female as well. Pretty sad IMHO. She was negligent. The dogs were left for far too long and there was not any shade or a way for them to escape the heat. 

She had been WARNED about this same thing before. I find it funny that 2 years ago, she had gotten her first GSD and now is an expert on the breed? She was breeding a Designer dog before that, her dog Nemo is a Border Retriever. lol lol There are posts about the "breed" elsewhere. 

I wish they would have taken away her right to own pets for 12 months along with her probation. 

Courtney


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## Betty

I used a pickup for a while with the top and you are absolutley right it roasts.

I had to set up the crates outside the vehicle during training.


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## Alto

> Quote: It seems as if the "law" choses to make examples sometimes for a political statement - "see what we are doing for the good of animals" . We convicted this nice lady that left her dogs in th car even tho it appears another person closed the windows.


I believe the "law" chose to prosecute in this case as they had witnesses that were willing to come forward & it was a demonstrated pattern of behavior & the accused demonstrated a willingness to disseminate with regards to the storyline; by the time she was done with her justifications, I certainly believed that she felt no responsibility in the death of the dogs & that without a conviction, she was highly probable to continue this pattern of behavior & ultimately many more dogs would be at risk since <u>this is her career</u>.

I too would have preferred that she be limited in her animal ownership for a set time & that community service hours be included in her judgement (rather than the minimal fine).

But I also would like those who show to be required to have a 'helper' so that dogs would be less likely to be left unsupervised for any length of time ... & that ain't likely to happen neither


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## Cassidy's Mom

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqWOW this amazes me. I can't remember how many times my HOUSE was hotter than this just this past summer, which by our standards, was a "cool" summer. There are vehicles that just simply do not get as hot as many others. My van is one of these and I often run into WM for more than "a few minutes" with dogs in the van in the summer. I do utilize common sense and know if there is a possibility of my van becoming too warm (then of course I do not leave them). I do NOT leave them in there for extended periods of time but my van simply does not get overly hot unless the outside temps are way over 90.... but 80-85 *in a vehicle*, a healthy dog should not have an issue with IMO. That is "average" summer temps for a good portion of the US.


Exactly. In our old house, the one with no AC, there were days when I came home from work at it was 95 degrees *in the house!* We were all miserable, but nobody died.











> Originally Posted By: VonKromeHausWhat somemembers are posting about leaving their dogs in the car is different, it was a truck bed with a canopy on it, No insulation in it to keep the heat out.


I don't think anyone was defending her actions. I know I wasn't, I was responding to another poster who said that it's NEVER safe to leave a dog in a vehicle when the temps are in the 70's and that's just not true. I agree that the type of vehicle does make a difference. I 've never owned a truck with a camper shell, but I know a lot of you do, and I trust your experience. I would be fine with leaving my dogs in the SUV for a half hour or more at temps that I wouldn't leave them in my Audi for 5 minutes. Humidity makes a big difference too, and although I've never lived anywhere where that was a factor, I can say that at 85 degrees in Hawaii I was just as hot as I was in Las Vegas when it was 110. 

I don't believe I'm complacent about leaving my dogs in the car, I just know my vehicles and the weather conditions here very well.


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom I was responding to another poster who said that it's NEVER safe to leave a dog in a vehicle when the temps are in the 70's and that's just not true. I agree that the type of vehicle does make a difference.


i would just rather have people come on here and get the message that leaving dogs in a car when it is 75 degrees for an extended period is dangerous rather than the message being that under the right circumstances it may be ok. i recognize that in the shade, with tint, with windows down enough, and on on a low humidity day and some breeze it may be quite tolerable for a dog.

im just so tired of reading about supposed "dog lovers" dogs dying in cars that it seems prudent to just eliminate any grey area from the message. 

so, i suppose my general sentiments on this are aimed at all the ignorant dog owners out there (such as Jen, who clearly didnt heed any previous warnings about this) NOT toward anyone who has commented in this thread and not toward a vast majority of board members.


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## selzer

She is a breeder then? Well she may be in serious trouble with AKC. I've been reading the old Gazzetts where they mention the people that lose their AKC privledges for Animal Cruelty convictions. 

I figure these people just register them under different registries, or change their status from breeder to rescue and do not have to bother with papers then. But still, it is a lot harsher punishment than just a year's probation and a fine.


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## VonKromeHaus

Hopefully she does lose her AKC privelages. Someone should call and ask them. She shows her dogs in UKC as well. I just really feel that she was negligent, she had been WARNED numerous times about leaving her dogs in the back of the truck in the heat. It is ridiculous, I mean her whole story and the way it changed from board to board and as time went on. 

Cassidy's mom- I trust you to know what is too hot and what is not for your dogs as a responsible owner. This owner is also a groomer and breeder, she should be held to some level of higher standards as a breeder and some level of common sense but alas, it appears that she has none. 

She is a breeder, her kennel name is Vom Haus Huro for those interested. She no longer lists available puppies as she was blasted on the PDB right after this happened as at nationals, someone reported seeing her with a litter of like 6 week old puppies on the grounds there and she got a new female less than weeks after this incident. Not a person to do business with. Her C litter was supposedly an "accident" but after looking at her website and actions, it appears to have been done on purpose.


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## ch3ckpo1nt

I think some of you are crazy either way. I'm sure its partially because I live in Florida and it gets sickening hot here, but I would never leave my dog in my vehicle alone, hot or cold. When I leave my house, I know whether or not I'm going to be able to bring my dog somewhere. If its somewhere I can't, he stays home. The only excuse I possibly see, is if your in the middle of a show for other dogs and no one is there to watch your own, but even still, tie them up somewhere close to you where they are under supervision.


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## JenM66

This entire situation sickens me. As someone who was aware of the situation from the very beginning and even spent time on the phone with Jen after it happened, I don't know what to think, what to believe. I am terribly saddened that 2 dogs died, regardless of the circumstances. It changed my ways with Gracie. She does not go out with me in the summer if I cannot bring her in to every location I am stopping. If she has to wait in the car, even 10 minutes, she's not going.

RIP Ranger and Cassidy, they were the big losers in this whole thing.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1166058&page=2#Post1166058


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## VonKromeHaus

She actually plead GUILTY to the charges. In this whole thing I found a ton of contradicting things about Jen. Like with Nemo, she says on her website he was rescued, but said elsewhere that he was bought from a breeder, even posted about his litter of puppies that she had from him. Then the big to-do with Ranger from the beginning. 

I just hope that her kennel name Vom Haus Huro gets out there and that nobody else buys from her without knowing that she is convicted of animal cruelty. It is on the cruelty websites now. 

Courtney


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## AndreaG

wouldn't it be a great world if this was really the worst crime against dogs...? Someone who loves them makes a stupid mistake.
I'm sure she feels quite horrible now. Looking at those pictures, those two dogs had a wonderful life and were well loved. 

I agree; people who abandon their dogs or purposefully hurt them should be the ones charged with cruelty. This was a tragic mistake. A very sad accident, not cruelty!


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## GSDolch

> Originally Posted By: VonKromeHausShe actually plead GUILTY to the charges.


Im not going to comment on the whole thing happening, but you keep bringing this up as if its something that matters? 

Just because someone pleads guilty doesnt mean they are guilty of that crime in that way.

Lots of times pleading out can get a lesser sentence.

If she fought it, she might have won..or she might have lost, but the sentence would have been much harsher, and for some, pleading out to a lesser sentence even when they feel they are innocent is better to them than going through the whole trial process.


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## roxy84

> Originally Posted By: AndreaG makes a stupid mistake.
> A very sad accident, not cruelty!


sorry, not an accident. not intentional, but based on previous warnings she had gotten, it is gross negligence toward her dogs at best. that is no accident, as she cannot pretend she had no idea it could be dangerous leaving dogs in the heat of a capped truck. confirmed previous warnings about this behavior, and she continues the behavior resulting in the death of 2 dogs.

anyone can say they love dogs, but you can only show your dogs this love by doing everything in your power to keep them safe and healthy. she failed to do this.

she really got off easy for what she did. i wish the punishment were much more harsh so that others would think harder about leaving dogs in harms way.


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## AndreaG

*sigh* OK, I just don't agree with you. Oh well.


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## RebelGSD

Is this the revival of the turkey thread?


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## FredD

I agree...


> Originally Posted By: roxy84
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: AndreaG makes a stupid mistake.
> A very sad accident, not cruelty!
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, not an accident. not intentional, but based on previous warnings she had gotten, it is gross negligence toward her dogs at best. that is no accident, as she cannot pretend she had no idea it could be dangerous leaving dogs in the heat of a capped truck. confirmed previous warnings about this behavior, and she continues the behavior resulting in the death of 2 dogs.
> 
> anyone can say they love dogs, but you can only show your dogs this love by doing everything in your power to keep them safe and healthy. she failed to do this.
> 
> she really got off easy for what she did. i wish the punishment were much more harsh so that others would think harder about leaving dogs in harms way.
Click to expand...


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## SpeedBump

> Originally Posted By: Historian
> Do you have control over how long it will take you inside the store, even if you stop in for just a soda, or just to get gas?


Of course I do, I can leave the store at anytime.

The thing that works against her for me is the fact that she had someone's 8 month old puppy in there and not just her own dogs. No matter what she obviously did not check on the dogs often enough and they died. I certainly would not want her in a position to be responsible for my dog's welfare.

I leave my dogs in the vehicle for as much as 10 minutes at a time but that is about it no matter what the temperature is.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

> Originally Posted By: GSDolch
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: VonKromeHausShe actually plead GUILTY to the charges.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not going to comment on the whole thing happening, but you keep bringing this up as if its something that matters?
> 
> Just because someone pleads guilty doesnt mean they are guilty of that crime in that way.
> 
> Lots of times pleading out can get a lesser sentence.
> 
> If she fought it, she might have won..or she might have lost, but the sentence would have been much harsher, and for some, pleading out to a lesser sentence even when they feel they are innocent is better to them than going through the whole trial process.
Click to expand...

Very true.


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## AndreaG

yep!


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## roxy84

if Jen truly thought she was innocent in all this then she is unfortunately delusional and should never own another dog.

she plead guilty. she was guilty. she was negligent. her behavior directly resulted in the death of two dogs. behavior that she had partaken in before.


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## selzer

Even though it caused death, I think that someone who deliberately starves, chokes, or kicks a dog is much more guilty of cruelty than an accident like this one. 

Everyone on this site has been warned over and over again about e-fences or letting a dog run loose, and yet some of them still let them get run over by cars, or attacked by outside dogs. Should they be convicted of cruelty? 

Everyone has been warned about the dangers of chocolate and antifreeze, but dogs still get into it, some of them die. It is tragic, death is grusome, but is it cruelty?

Because of the ramifications of an animal cruelty conviction, there is no way I would plead guilty if I felt I could beat the charge. Legislation going through in places has background checks for kennel licenses, and an animal cruelty conviction would mean you would not be allowed a kennel license. Some of you like that, but if someone charged you with animal cruelty because the dog was run over by a car, or injested antifreeze and died, it will not say differentiate between someone who committed a lapse of securtity or judgement, or someone who was dog fighting, or someone who starved all their animals to death.


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## Debbieg

I do not know the person and can't judge what she was thinking. but her actions show negligence. As a breeder she should have known better. I am sure she feels terrible, never thought this would happen. A hard lesson and those poor dogs paid the price.

I would never leave my dog in the car on a hot summer day, even for a minute.My dog does not like the heat and I do not work him outside on the middle of a hot summer day. We walk in the early mornings on those hot days. We may go out and play in the shade or go for a swim. 

I even convinced DH that we keep the AC on for the dogs and cats in the house when we leave for work because with all the windows clothers the heat, while it probably would not kill them would make them very uncomfortable.


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## DianaM

> Originally Posted By: Betty101We now have aluminum crates with a padlock. If I stop for lunch I can open the van up and sit where I can watch the vehicle. Most times I get something to go though.
> 
> We almost always have a dog with us on errands. A lot of times one of us runs into the store and the other one will sit in the vehicle with the air going.


That's what I would do. Either run errands with someone who can stay with the dog or have locking aluminum crates bolted to the car frame, a very difficult to remove barrier between cockpit of car and rest of car, then leave windows down and rear gate open. Or, better yet, not leave dog unattended! Way too many crazy people in the world. You've got idiots who will try to pet the dog, dumbbutts who will tease the dog, and animal rights imbeciles who will try to do everything in their power to "save" your dog from the ravages of a 60 degree Florida winter day when you've been gone only two minutes. 

I can keep my dog safe from the elements very easily, but keeping him safe from the morons of the world is much more difficult.


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## Kayos and Havoc

> Originally Posted By: DianaM
> 
> I can keep my dog safe from the elements very easily, but keeping him safe from the morons of the world is much more difficult.


That probably sums up the heart of the issue. I don't think anyone on this board would intentionally put our dogs in dangerous positions. Thee are 2 things that may be out of our immediate control: accidents and other idiots.


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## JenM66

My new worry, and I don't know where it came from, is that if I leave Gracie unattended in the car, someone will steal the car. The crate will then have done no good in protecting her.....if the whole darned car is gone. Best to leave her home unless it's someplace she can go into.


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