# Need advice from fosters



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I used to be around pups all of the time as a child, my parents were BYB's... 
Now that I am into rescue and not breeding mutts, I am going to try pulling a litter from a NC gassing shelter next time there is one in need.
I cannot foster adults in my home, our GS would kill an adult, but loves pups. 

Since the horrible loss of our rescue pit, who turned out to have some mental issues and we had to put her down, I feel the only way I can alleviate some of the guilt would be to give back to the shelter dogs. 

What I really want to know, is what would the general PRICE be to give all of the shots needed for a litter of 4-9 puppies? Our vet may discount, he loves that we do rescue. He was very upset to have to put our Tink down, as he was the one she got to se after leaving the SPCA and she loved him.

Of course in the case of illness, which there will likely be in these nasty shelters, I know it can be quite a lot, but vaccines are what I am curious about.

It's been a long time since I've had a litter of puppies, so what shots would pups need up to 9-10 weeks or so? 
I could ask my vet, but I prefer to ask here first with people who have foster experience.


----------



## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

It's very very difficult doing rescue alone. Expenses...you must be prepared for anything...not just basic shots. (parvo, etc). You must also screen homes....hv's, ref checks, vet checks, etc...and committ to taking a dog back at any time in it's life if the person can no longer keep. You must have very good contracts in place. If the pups are old enough...you must spay/neuter. Too young...you must have a very good spay/neuter contract in place...and check up to make sure it's been done. 

Personally...I wouldn't do it...but instead sign up with a reputable rescue to foster...or through a local shelter that has a foster program.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i second myamom's thoughts. it is so admirable that you want to rescue, and there are so many in need, but please, please, give this a bit more thought. it would be so terrible if one of the many, many things that can go wrong did go wrong, and what was intended to do nothing but good somehow caused you even more pain. you can still do this...just PLEASE foster for an established, reputable rescue or shelter. PLEASE. so much better to be safe than sorry. you've had enough pain and guilt.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Check out VAGSR: http://www.shepherdrescue.org/ 

Established, reputable, capable of dealing with the unexpected expenses of litters, returns, etc. and do all the speuters before adoption (essential-speuter contracts are not effective birth control). 

Also, depending on the litter, the mom has to be accounted for too. Sometimes we have seen people taking the litter and leaving the mom behind, and if your dog won't tolerate an adult, there has to be a plan in place for mom which an established rescue can help with. 

I am sure you will get PMs from groups/individuals offering to take you under their wing-but I would go with your local group-because I think for them from what I have seen it's not just saving the dog from it's first death it's saving them from a living death.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I only plan on doing one litter - or part of a litter, once every several months. Not a constant thing.

Most of the litters I see in these shelters are dropped off by the owners, without mom.

I forgot to add that HVs, applications, contracts, including a spay and neuter contract(unless the pups are old enough to be fixed without health problems),and many other precautions will follow.
I have done rescue with adult dogs (and about 150 cats... XD), and had all of the same, but they did not need their puppy shots, they only needed to be brought UTD and altered, in one case HW treatment (that got expensive fast, but was worth it), kennel cough came with most dogs that were pulled.



I know that by fostering pups from these nasty shelters will mean I will end up having to euthanize some sick pups in the future... When these pups are dropped off at 4-5 weeks old in a cold, cement kennel with dogs all around, they tend to be very ill.

Not saying I will not foster for a good place, I probably will end up doing so with VAGSR or another. 

I work rather hard every week (kill day is Friday) pounding the keyboard and phones for these disgusting places who gas puppies.
4 litters pulled this week, one was seven 3-week-old pups with their momma, the others were dropped too young without their mom.

I have a lot of thought to put into this, so do not hold back your advice. 
I am listening, believe me.. I think it is natural for someone to want to grab the puppies huddled in a cold corner on a slab of dirty concrete, until they'll be pulled out for their death, left to gasp under a bunch of thrashing animals until they pass on, rather than the rather healthy pups sitting in a clean kennel at a great rescue.


----------



## Spiritsmam (Nov 10, 2007)

I have to say that I agree with myamom and katieliz. I rescue/adopt senior/special needs dogs on my own and it is very hard work. Expenses can be significant - I spend on average $350 a month of my own money on the dogs I help, not including food, basic supplies, and training classes. 

I often have dogs for the long term, sometimes for life - it can take months to find the right adoptive home, especially in this current economic climate or if you have a sick or special needs pup. This is something you definitely need to consider given you say you have a GSD that would attack adult dogs. I have an adoption contract, talk to several references (including a vet), arrange home visits, and arrange transport if needed.

Then there's the time having multiple dogs takes. I currently have 8 dogs in the house. This is fine for me because I'm somewhat of a recluse and love spending all my time being out with the dogs. My day starts at 4am and I aim to be in bed by 11.30pm, not something for the fainthearted. 

I would suggest you contact your local shelter or rescue and see if they have a foster program. In doing so not only will you be able to help pups in need but you will have the support of the group should something not work out. If you find that rescue is what you want to do you could then branch out on your own.

Wishing you the best


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

You should see if you can help VGSR. I go on their website a lot and it is constantly saying that they are in dire need of foster homes. I think this would be the best way for you to make a great impact.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDYou should see if you can help VGSR. I go on their website a lot and it is constantly saying that they are in dire need of foster homes. I think this would be the best way for you to make a great impact.


I will once they have dogs I can foster.
Old Dutch is fine with dogs if they grow up with her, but not bringing in a random adult. It took her about a week not to try attacking a rescued adult we brought home. We can keep them separate, but I do not want an adult to be here, if they start thinking they are in danger from dogs I would just be adding a problem.

I will submit a foster form explaining that I can only take in pups, and we'll see what happens. 
Dutch went through five litters (she belonged to my parents), and has a huge maternal side. She loved a group of rottie/jindo mutt puppies we kept for a few days.

I am not sure where Dutch's extreme dog aggression comes from, she just decided one day that she didn't like them.
Our pomeranian mix would be wonderful for some young babies to learn from, she is playful but corrective when she needs to be, and is the epitome of an alpha bitch. 
She always helps out with the numerous kittens I take in (like most places, we have a big stray cat problem).


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Let me say firstly, thank you Spirits for what you do.. You obviously sacrifice a lot for your guys and I'm sure they are grateful.
And thank you for the advice, I will follow it.


----------



## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Here's a question for you to think about.........

What about if say...a year later (or more) someone can no longer keep that puppy they adopted from you? It's now an adult which you can't foster.............


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: myamomHere's a question for you to think about.........
> 
> What about if say...a year later (or more) someone can no longer keep that puppy they adopted from you? It's now an adult which you can't foster.............


I _can_ take an adult in, it is just harder. Rotating and such, which is why I plan on starting with pups. 
Dutch will likely be gone by the time I actually start fostering, I'm sad to say. 

I will probably have actual outdoor kennels by then as well.


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Your intentions are great and what you plan to do is a hugh effort. I work with a foster group and they are willing to fund all expenses for care. However, unless there are very serious health problems, I cover all expenses.

Perhaps I missed this, but are you affiliated with a rescue group, or is this something you want to do on your own. If you can foster for a good rescue group, they can be very helpful. Not only with expenses, but also with getting the pups placed. Virginaia, might be quite different, but here in Wiscosnin German Shepherd pups are adopted almost immediately.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Not yet, I plan on working with some rescue(s) when I can start fostering.

That would be the issue with working with a GSD group, I would be very wary of bringing a strange full grown GSD into my home, seeing as I have other pets. But I have seen their dogs with newborn pups who need foster, or pregnant dogs.
I have months to find out what to do, we have some pit bull rescues nearby that I may contact, I'm sure they don't have a bunch of people clamoring for their pups, and pit puppies are so plentiful, they really don't go as fast.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

In our group the dogs we take in are directly related to the foster places we have to put them. So if we have someone who likes to do moms and babies, for example, and we see a mom and babies in need then we can pull them. If we don't have a foster like that, then we can't. So, you might find that if they had you, the rescue group could pull the kinds of dogs you want to foster. I think the foster availability drives the intake for most groups, not the other way around. So I wouldn't assume that if you did GSD rescue you'd have to foster adults just because that's what you see on their site. That may just be the type of dog they have places to put currently.

I want to second what everyone else has said about having a rescue backing you when things go wrong and just in general. It's safer for you and for the dogs you take in. Having a litter come down with a treatable illness (like parvo) when you're one person on your own can mean the death of the entire litter, unless you're independently wealthy. If you've got rescue help, they may all live and do fine. Also, I would recommend against letting puppies go on spay/neuter contracts. They simply aren't enforceable and the compliance rate is very poor. Most reputable rescuers alter everything before placement. However, this can mean keeping puppies a bit longer. I don't know what demand is like where you are, but it can take me a while to find great homes for my entire litter. The last litter I had, I think the last one didn't leave until he was almost 4 months old. I've got a 12 week old puppy now that I handraised but who has a cleft palate so I can't place him until we figure out if we're doing surgery or not and how to proceed. A lot of little stuff like that can happen and it can really add up on you when you're going it alone. Also, I've found that dogs placed as puppies have far and away the highest rate of return and always when it's least convenient. Not that having a rescue behind you will change that, but it can help because there may be other foster homes open when yours is full. 

I think doing Pit Bull rescue would be fantastic! Goodness knows that poor maligned breed can use all the helpers it can get. I hope it works out for you to foster with a PB group in your area.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I would like to keep the dogs until they are a bit older than usual. I would want them to be well-trained and fixed before leaving. I think 4-6 months would be a good amount of time for that, and thought not many are clamoring for older pups, some good people are just looking for a rescue. 

I will have to check out each group and see who I'd like to foster for.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

It's always a balance. Four to sixth month old puppies can be really hard to place. Depending on the demand in your area and the adoptability of the animals you're fostering, you could easily end up with several new dogs. 

We do the spays/neuters around 10-12 weeks depending on the size of the puppy. We offer them for adoption on our website from about 7 weeks on and at events once they've had two rounds of shots.

To get back to your original question - You can give puppies their first vaccines at 6 weeks and then the next one 2-3 weeks later, and the next 2-3 weeks after that. Three to four combo vaccines total for the puppy series is typical. If you still have the dogs at 4 months, that's when they get rabies. You can also do bordatella in there somewhere. I can't remember the age limit on that. I know a lot of folks on this board are for minimal vaccination but if you're attending adoption events etc. I think a more aggressive approach is warranted.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you for the info, it was very helpful.

That was my thinking, since they would be out much more than a normal pup, all shots would be necessary...

My poor pom mix came from a terrible "designer" BYB, she had one set of shots and was 4 months old when I got her. She nearly died form parvo and has bone deformities in her front legs. 

Thinking about the way I grew up with dogs, it's a miracle that I don't have a yard full of breeding pit bulls!
My parents actually adopted TWO MUTTS from the SPCA who had a spay contract (which they did not follow up) just so our male GSD would have a 'girlfriend'. I think there was at least 4+ mutt litter at my house, and the bitches were... bitches! I was bitten a few times by a husky/collie mix female they brought home when she had pups. And the other was SO aggressive when she got loose my father would go look for her with gun in case she was mauling someone. Yeah, lets mix THAT with a working breed... 

They then rehomed the one female and took the other back because she kept escaping, THEN bought Dutch, and the other female in my avatar (The black one is male, the others are girls) and just left them to their own devices in the breeding field. Dutch had 5 back-to-back litters with nothing but PB sandwiches as prenatal care, and gave birth in her dog house at least one time.. Gretchen (the red and black) was sold because she fought with Dutch, only later to find out she was pregnant with 14 puppies. Yeah, my parents wanted her back then.

The puppies were unpapered and had no spay/neuter contract. They were sold to anyone with money ($300 at the most), including an extremely abusive home right across the street. They got a gorgeous LH male who was chained most of the time, then they moved and tied him to a phone pole.

Maybe I'm trying to make up for however many hundreds of dogs our family put into the world.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Yikes! Glad you're going in a different direction. The world definitely doesn't need more carelessly bred dogs.









Re the vaccines - I do want to say that even though we do the aggressive vaccine schedule, it's STILL super important to carry your puppies into events, never potty them outside, never set them on the floor at the places and never allow people to handle them without using hand sanitizer. Parvo is awful!!! Any precaution you can possibly take is definitely worth it.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqYikes! Glad you're going in a different direction. The world definitely doesn't need more carelessly bred dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get ill when I think about the innocents we put into this world.

Yep, I get a bit angry at adoption events where they are letting kids/adults pick up the tiny pups, and having strange dogs come to see them without making sure they're UTD on everything.
I have experience with Parvo. It was what my pom had, the owner lied to save a buck and said she had her shots. She nearly died from it, as my parents let he go for days to se if she'd get better, then she spent four days at the vet on IV.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

If you are most interested at this time in fostering a breed/mix other than GSD, maybe you could make a list of all the rescues/shelters using Petfinder in your state. Do some research and use it to narrow the list down to those that are most closely aligned with what you want to do, and that can offer you the support you need. Pick the best match from that list and offer to foster for them. 
Sheilah


----------



## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Just a few comments. Before you decide to go it on your own, I would suggest your affiliaite yourself as a foster with a rescue group. You might not always agree with the rescue, but if you remember the dog(s) come first, most can be very helpful.

Someone mentioned that 4-6 months old pups can be hard to adopt. In our area (Wisconsin) these pups go immediately. The Milwaukee Humane Society which takes a few thousand dogs a year, literally have no young GSD's. And, as I mentioned our recue gets these young dogs adopted without exception.

As for older dogs, you mentioned your guy is sixteen years old and probably well settled. But do not rule out an older shepherd. A good one will respect your dog and act accordingly. A pup might drive the older dog nuts. 

Just a thought, based on experience.


----------

