# 4 month GSD seems to be becoming aggressive.



## volumedown (12 mo ago)

I have another post regarding barking, but my issue seems to be getting a tad bit worse than that. I would like actual advice please and not "refer to a trainer". 

Recently, Ava turned 4 months old, and a little bit before that she began barking at pretty much everyone she could, which I've read is normal and I wasn't to worried about that. We take her pretty much every where we can, since we got her at 8 weeks. She did fine with other people, didn't care for other dogs to much but didn't do anything about it. And then one day on a walk, she just began barking at someone with her hind hairs high in the sky and has not stopped since, will not let anybody come near her, and is absolutely terrified of other dogs. I tried to introduce her slowly back to other dogs, and it wasn't pretty (though i never really stopped, i just stopped trusting her off the leash). She wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. 

What I thought was a scared dog who was just learning the world, Scared me the other day at a park. My daughter, who is 3 was playing when another little girl her age showed up and Ava was acting very aggressive. Teeth showing, up on her back legs absolutely, hairs high in the sky going absolutely crazy. I am 100% certain this dog would have bitten that little girl. The little girl wasn't acting weird, moving fast or do anything out of the ordinary. The mother looked absolutely concerned as anyone would and Ava would not stop after redirection attempts, going to the other side of the park or anything. The little girl would just be walking, not even by my daughter and Ava would act like that. I ultimately had to leave. I have been around GSDs alot, owned several dogs and of course been around alot. I have never seen a dog act like that. 

Every time we go outside, she will bark at everyone, now including cars and will not let anybody near her without acting like a complete fool. She has a pretty moderate mouthing problem but we address it every time. She acts completely fine with us, no aggressive behaviors, plays with toys fines, knows all kinds of tricks, responds to her name 100%. 

Is something wrong with this dog? Is it hormones? I don't really know what it could be. I can't imagine every German Sheppard I see acted like this growing up and everyone of them "needed training" I socialized, and continue as best as I can. Not overwhelming her, or putting her in situations she doesn't like. She gets plenty of exercise, she eats just fine. 

I am at a loss really, nothing happed to her unless it was before 8 weeks of age to basically letting people pet her at parks, be near her to now what seems to me, and everyone else.. basically an aggressive dog.


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

ha, I've trained some GSDs and others, but mostly I just like being around a lot of dogs and I really enjoy helping them out when i can. I'd never refer u to a _*trainer*_, would I? Ava is so young! A babe. So I'd look for distress as you would with a 2-year-old who can't vocalize properly, as in let me refer you to a *doctor* instead of a trainer. I rarely see 4-month-olds behaving as Ava, unless something is seriously up. Could be pain, could be anything, I'm def not a dr. But I'm kinda wondering why you would let your 4-month-old off lead in a dog park? (or any age dog, for that matter; i am not a fan of dog parks, sure, big open spaces with lots of social distancing, but small parks, lots of dogs, lots of people, no leashes, owners on cell phones, forgettaboutit! Not my idea of a good time, and I'm not convinced that's how u should socialize a dog. But hey, maybe that's the problem. Ava might not be "socialized" yet. Just another thought.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

herojig said:


> ha, I've trained some GSDs and others, but mostly I just like being around a lot of dogs and I really enjoy helping them out when i can. I'd never refer u to a _*trainer*_, would I? Ava is so young! A babe. So I'd look for distress as you would with a 2-year-old who can't vocalize properly, as in let me refer you to a *doctor* instead of a trainer. I rarely see 4-month-olds behaving as Ava, unless something is seriously up. Could be pain, could be anything, I'm def not a dr. But I'm kinda wondering why you would let your 4-month-old off lead in a dog park? (or any age dog, for that matter; i am not a fan of dog parks, sure, big open spaces with lots of social distancing, but small parks, lots of dogs, lots of people, no leashes, owners on cell phones, forgettaboutit! Not my idea of a good time, and I'm not convinced that's how u should socialize a dog. But hey, maybe that's the problem. Ava might have never been properly "socialized" yet. Just another thought.


She was great off the leash. I wouldn't say she "liked" other dogs, but did not show fear or aggressive behavior. She was just fine. Plenty of full grown GSDs were there off leashed behaving like any other dog. This behavior started randomly.


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## melaniep (Jan 28, 2021)

The advise you got on your last post is exactly what you need to do. Take her out, praise her every time shes being good, if she barks get her attention with a toy of treat, praise. Corrections for this behavior won't get you far. Mind you, this isn't something that will be fixed in a couple weeks, but you should see progress slowly. I have a 7 month old whos fear agressive right around the 4 month mark.. shes a million times better than before, but we are still working on it.

If you're trying everything thats being suggested and your not getting anywhere you do need to consider a trainer because that dog once older will bite someone.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

melaniep said:


> The advise you got on your last post is exactly what you need to do. Take her out, praise her every time shes being good, if she barks get her attention with a toy of treat, praise. Corrections for this behavior won't get you far. Mind you, this isn't something that will be fixed in a couple weeks, but you should see progress slowly. I have a 7 month old whos fear agressive right around the 4 month mark.. shes a million times better than before, but we are still working on it.
> 
> If you're trying everything thats being suggested and your not getting anywhere you do need to consider a trainer because that dog once older will bite someone.


Getting a trainer is fine, but I do not have a limitless wallet for that. I am not going to give up on her, but there clearly is something off about her behavior.


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

volumedown said:


> She was great off the leash. I wouldn't say she "liked" other dogs, but did not show fear or aggressive behavior. She was just fine. Plenty of full grown GSDs were there off leashed behaving like any other dog. This behavior started randomly.


Well, hopefully, others here will have better ideas than a full medical workup, and perhaps a revisiting of more socialization practice at home, skipping crowded dog parks until Ava can behave more like the "other" dogs. I have no idea if this is valid (I'm not a professional anything anymore), but my philosophy is if I can bring strange dogs into my yard and the target can be trained to be civil, the pup will most likely be civil outside the home. I've seen _Cesar _do something like this, but he brings the pup to _his_ yard and does his magic socialization there. But I'm half a world away from Cali  so I gotta import the test subjects into my own home environment. 

But it's tough. I have one GSD who would love if I let one of the street cows in the yard, as he has a liking for big milk cows. Why? We will never know. But I currently have a Golden Saint, who often snaps on the street when he sees even the smallest of cows. He's 4, with an unknown history until recently, and would kill anything smaller than a cat, if he is left to his own devices. But here's a point, he's not left to his own devices all that much when around other warm-blooded species. If a strange dog comes in the yard, he's on a lead, and I make him look at me first, before thinking of going off the skids. He can tell from my face, what not to do, 99 percent of the time. 

My guess (for what it's worth; this _is_ the internet) is that u have a lot of hours ahead, at paw level, communicating with AVA however you can, to set the ground rules for civil dog behavior. Best of luck!


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

herojig said:


> Well, hopefully, others here will have better ideas than a full medical workup, and perhaps a revisiting of more socialization practice at home, skipping crowded dog parks until Ava can behave more like the "other" dogs. I have no idea if this is valid (I'm not a professional anything anymore), but my philosophy is if I can bring strange dogs into my yard and the target can be trained to be civil, the pup will most likely be civil outside the home. I've seen _Cesar _do something like this, but he brings the pup to _his_ yard and does his magic socialization there. But I'm half a world away from Cali  so I gotta import the test subjects into my own home environment.
> 
> But it's tough. I have one GSD who would love if I let one of the street cows in the yard, as he has a liking for big milk cows. Why? We will never know. But I currently have a Golden Saint, who often snaps on the street when he sees even the smallest of cows. He's 4, with an unknown history until recently, and would kill anything smaller than a cat, if he is left to his own devices. But here's a point, he's not left to his own devices all that much when around other warm-blooded species. If a strange dog comes in the yard, he's on a lead, and I make him look at me first, before thinking of going off the skids. He can tell from my face, what not to do, 99 percent of the time.
> 
> My guess (for what it's worth; this _is_ the internet) is that u have a lot of hours ahead, at paw level, communicating with AVA however you can, to set the ground rules for civil dog behavior. Best of luck!


I continue to work with her, and will not give up like countless others have been given up on. I just find it weird how "random" the behavior started after doing so well with others. It's like she woke up a different dog one day, as far as outside goes. I do not go to crowded parks anymore.


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

volumedown said:


> I continue to work with her, and will not give up like countless others have been given up on. I just find it weird how "random" the behavior started after doing so well with others. It's like she woke up a different dog one day, as far as outside goes. I do not go to crowded parks anymore.


Random? ha. I don't think that's the right word... more like a certain shock to her psyche or other trauma during a precise time period; the word is "change" no? So be a sleuth, figure that part out if possible. Leave everything on the table, consider it all bit by bit.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Start working on desensitizing and normalization. Find the distance from strangers and dogs that she can focus on you and then work on OB skills and fun, make it always a positive and very fun. Over time move a bit closer, if she cannot focus backup a bit, always set her up for success during these session. You will be teaching it her it's safe, she can trust your judgement and good things happen when she pays attention to you. It will take time. While doing this avoid situations that will cause her to fail. 

If a situation happens that gets her riled up, let he chill for a few days. Stress hormones last several days in their system.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I just reread your previous thread on this subject for background. What nobody mentioned was fear periods, some puppies have them and others don't. But I can't help thinking that's what's happening, since as you said she used to be okay with dogs and people, then all of the sudden she's not.

Fear periods typically last a couple to three weeks, so it's best just to refocus on obedience and engagement as @David Winners suggested at the end of that previous thread. Just give the puppy a break and don't put her in close proximity to people or other dogs for a few weeks.

If that's not possible, just do what you can using distance to keep the puppy from freaking out. This period will pass!


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

I might have missed it, but is the dog a rescue? If not, have you spoken to the breeder about their dogs and what they have seen?


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

tim_s_adams said:


> I just reread your previous thread on this subject for background. What nobody mentioned was fear periods, some puppies have them and others don't. But I can't help thinking that's what's happening, since as you said she used to be okay with dogs and people, then all of the sudden she's not.
> 
> Fear periods typically last a couple to three weeks, so it's best just to refocus on obedience and engagement as @David Winners suggested at the end of that previous thread. Just give the puppy a break and don't put her in close proximity to people or other dogs for a few weeks.
> 
> If that's not possible, just do what you can using distance to keep the puppy from freaking out. This period will pass!


I thought fear periods started earlier, no? It could be because she seems to be more on the defensive side of things. The incident with the 3 year old kind of scared me though. I will continue to work with her and find what best suits her


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

UnlimitedGSD said:


> I might have missed it, but is the dog a rescue? If not, have you spoken to the breeder about their dogs and what they have seen?


No I have had her since she was 8 weeks old. Breeder has said similar things to responses here, but it still doesn't seem "normal" to me.


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## UnlimitedGSD (Oct 16, 2012)

volumedown said:


> No I have had her since she was 8 weeks old. Breeder has said similar things to responses here, but it still doesn't seem "normal" to me.


 I agree, it's not normal. 
Was it a new breeding (not a repeat), can you share the pedigree of the dog?


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

UnlimitedGSD said:


> I agree, it's not normal.
> Was it a new breeding (not a repeat), can you share the pedigree of the dog?


It was not new breeding, and from what I've heard they've been successful with not much complaints. It sounds odd, but I was hoping I don't have a "dysfunctional" GSD. My step-dad had a couple and one, they couldn't train to save its life, and just like mine she was fine inside the house. Mine is GREAT in the house, on walks, tricks ETC it's just when she sees someone all of that, essentially goes away. I know she is very young so I have very high hopes.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

She is used to your daughter, is this the first time she has been with your daughter and other small kids at the same time. Small children can be frightening to a dog, They are loud, squeaky, move fast and erratically, body language is a mess. In general they cannot be trusted from the dogs point of view. 

Work on normalization from a distance around kids, even better to work from a distance around your daughter who is playing with other kids.

Our previous GSD we got from a rescue, he was a great dog, but if my teenage daughters had friends over and any of the girls got really animated with the teenage girl squeals, he'd go into hard core herding mode and nip at heals to control them. 

He would also shut down any tickling a boy would try to do with my daughters, I kind of liked it so never corrected that behavior. I'd even do the two finger I'm watching you hand move and tell the dog "keep an eye on him" my daughters hated it, boys would laugh but also do a double take of the GSD staring at them.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

drparker151 said:


> She is used to your daughter, is this the first time she has been with your daughter and other small kids at the same time. Small children can be frightening to a dog, They are loud, squeaky, move fast and erratically, body language is a mess. In general they cannot be trusted from the dogs point of view.
> 
> Work on normalization from a distance around kids, even better to work from a distance around your daughter who is playing with other kids.
> 
> ...


Well it wasn't the first time she was around other kids, just the first time she acted like that. I have been doing things from a distance now


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Every shepherd I've had has acted up at this age. I correct the behavior. This is probably the only thing I correct a puppy for. Just to be clear - you can not correct fear. it's an emotion. You can correct a behavior. But you also have to have a tool to modifiy the behavior going forward.

After the correction I use a lot of behavior modification. I like LAT for this. Make sure you are not flooding the puppy with people and other dogs. Her interacting with other dogs that are not part of her back is not a requirement to life. I like to work obedience around other dogs to make my dog neutral. 

But I will say - you need to get a trainer. Timing with rewards, behavior modifcation and corrections is pretty vital here. Having a trainer in person would be real handy and would stop alot of issues developing.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

Jax08 said:


> Every shepherd I've had has acted up at this age. I correct the behavior. This is probably the only thing I correct a puppy for. Just to be clear - you can not correct fear. it's an emotion. You can correct a behavior. But you also have to have a tool to modifiy the behavior going forward.
> 
> After the correction I use a lot of behavior modification. I like LAT for this. Make sure you are not flooding the puppy with people and other dogs. Her interacting with other dogs that are not part of her back is not a requirement to life. I like to work obedience around other dogs to make my dog neutral.
> 
> But I will say - you need to get a trainer. Timing with rewards, behavior modifcation and corrections is pretty vital here. Having a trainer in person would be real handy and would stop alot of issues developing.


I will steer clear of having a trainer now, I just needed some tips and to see if it was normal at this age, which it seems to be


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Good luck with free advice. I hope it all works out.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

Jax08 said:


> Good luck with free advice. I hope it all works out.


Thanks guy, not every issue needs to be handled by a trainer immediately.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

volumedown said:


> Thanks guy, not every issue needs to be handled by a trainer immediately.


First...I"m not a guy.

You asked for advice from those of us that have paid for trainers to learn how to deal with an issue while refusing to hire a trainer for something you must not know how to handle because you are here asking. So you don't need a trainer because you are asking for free advice from those of us that paid a trainer. And then you get rude about it. That's....Wow....

I sincerely hope the free advice works out for you. I hate to see a dog in a position to fail. 

I'm going to go make supper and then go train my dog. You have a good night. Google LAT and socialization in your downtime.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

Jax08 said:


> First...I"m not a guy.
> 
> You asked for advice from those of us that have paid for trainers to learn how to deal with an issue while refusing to hire a trainer for something you must not know how to handle because you are here asking. So you don't need a trainer because you are asking for free advice from those of us that paid a trainer. And then you get rude about it. That's....Wow....
> 
> ...


I came her for advice, i came here to see if anybody had similar issues and maybe how to address them. I'd probably have a trainer by now if I wanted it, don't ya think? Why would I come to a literal German Sheppard forum, where people ask questions, just to be told I need a trainer? 

I am here asking, because like YOU know, GSDs aren't really for beginners and 'can' be difficult. Hence why there is a German Sheppard forum. 

That little input you had at end about to Google LAT and socialization in downtime? Thats literally all you had to say. There's your free response.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

volumedown said:


> I came her for advice, i came here to see if anybody had similar issues and maybe how to address them. I'd probably have a trainer by now if I wanted it, don't ya think? Why would I come to a literal German Sheppard forum, where people ask questions, just to be told I need a trainer?
> 
> I am here asking, because like YOU know, GSDs aren't really for beginners and 'can' be difficult. Hence why there is a German Sheppard forum.
> 
> That little input you had at end about to Google LAT and socialization in downtime? Thats literally all you had to say. There's your free response.


German _Shepherd_
Just trying to help...


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

volumedown said:


> I came her for advice, i came here to see if anybody had similar issues and maybe how to address them. I'd probably have a trainer by now if I wanted it, don't ya think? Why would I come to a literal German Sheppard forum, where people ask questions, just to be told I need a trainer?
> 
> I am here asking, because like YOU know, GSDs aren't really for beginners and 'can' be difficult. Hence why there is a German Sheppard forum.
> 
> That little input you had at end about to Google LAT and socialization in downtime? Thats literally all you had to say. There's your free response.


Lose the attitude. If you could handle the situation you would already be doing that. We have seen dozens of puppies and owners in similar positions to yours over the last two years. Some of those dogs were turned around. Others were not and have very bad outcomes. We are not trying to figur with your we are trying to help. This time period is crucial if you want a dog you can take places and do things with in public. If you miss the window of opportunity to train your dog properly, that’s it. You can’t fix it six months from now. If you cant afford a trainer find a very good dog club with obedience and experience with dogs like yours and take a class. They must know how to train German Shepherds or it might not work. Work in a class at a distance. Practice often at a distance, then gradually work closer to other dogs and people. This can be a very serious issue and blowing off advice because you don’t like it won’t change the outcome. We know trainers are expensive but it’s worth it if there is any way you can afford to get some kind of professional help,


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> German _Shepherd_
> Just trying to help...


At least it's free


LuvShepherds said:


> Lose the attitude. If you could handle the situation you would already be doing that. We have seen dozens of puppies and owners in similar positions to yours over the last two years. Some of those dogs were turned around. Others were not and have very bad outcomes. We are not trying to figur with your we are trying to help. This time period is crucial if you want a dog you can take places and do things with in public. If you miss the window of opportunity to train your dog properly, that’s it. You can’t fix it six months from now. If you cant afford a trainer find a very good dog club with obedience and experience with dogs like yours and take a class. They must know how to train German Shepherds or it might not work. Work in a class at a distance. Practice often at a distance, then gradually work closer to other dogs and people. This can be a very serious issue and blowing off advice because you don’t like it won’t change the outcome. We know trainers are expensive but it’s worth it if there is any way you can afford to get some kind of professional help,


I appreciate you like my attitude. Trainers are not needed for every situation, nor do you need to dump thousands of dollars into training. "Advice" isn't immediately recommending a trainer, that will charge me for the same things I can personally do, hence the word "advice". There is no "attitude" this is an entire website dedicated to German Sheppards and questions/concerns people have. Not everyone can turn to a trainer, nor is it immediately appropriate.


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## Bknmaizey (Sep 16, 2019)

volumedown said:


> My daughter, who is 3 was playing when another little girl her age showed up and Ava was acting very aggressive. Teeth showing, up on her back legs absolutely, hairs high in the sky going absolutely crazy. I am 100% certain this dog would have bitten that little girl. The little girl wasn't acting weird, moving fast or do anything out of the ordinary. The mother looked absolutely concerned as anyone would and Ava would not stop after redirection attempts, going to the other side of the park or anything. The little girl would just be walking, not even by my daughter and Ava would act like that. I ultimately had to leave. I have been around GSDs alot, owned several dogs and of course been around alot. I have never seen a dog act like that.


I have to say, if that happened to me, and I couldn’t afford a trainer, I’d think long and hard about whether to give the dog back. This isn’t a good situation for the dog and it isn’t a good situation for you. If the breeder is reputable, then I would expect they’ll take the dog back at no cost and figure out how to get the dog adjusted on their own time and dime and/or rehome it. 

You say you have had dogs before and been around GSDs. So have I. I wouldn’t feel comfortable based on what you’ve described. Any dog will have its moments, for sure. And she’s a baby so always important to keep that in mind. But I try to know my limits and if I were in your shoes, I’d be considering if it I had the wherewithal to handle this. I’d give it a go, no doubt, but would absolutely be keeping that in mind. That’s just me, though.


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

Bknmaizey said:


> I have to say, if that happened to me, and I couldn’t afford a trainer, I’d think long and hard about whether to give the dog back. This isn’t a good situation for the dog and it isn’t a good situation for you. If the breeder is reputable, then I would expect they’ll take the dog back at no cost and figure out how to get the dog adjusted on their own time and dime and/or rehome it.
> 
> You say you have had dogs before and been around GSDs. So have I. I wouldn’t feel comfortable based on what you’ve described. Any dog will have its moments, for sure. And she’s a baby so always important to keep that in mind. But I try to know my limits and if I were in your shoes, I’d be considering if it I had the wherewithal to handle this. I’d give it a go, no doubt, but would absolutely be keeping that in mind. That’s just me, though.


There is zero reason to give the dog back when she acts completely fine around us and in the house, that may just how it has to be and that's fine. I will continue to work on her behavior as previously mentioned, I just wanted to see if anybody else experienced the same issues.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You missed the point of the generous, free advice you were given. I’m curious why you have an aversion to trainers and why one would not be appropriate for an aggressive four month old? I’m not convinced it’s aggression but a fear reaction. This dog is a puppy and it up to you to teach her not to be so fearful or reactive. She’s still learning but it will become permanent if it’s not stopped right away. So, without a trainer and if you don’t care for the advice given here, how do you plan to proceed? We aren’t free trainers. Just because this is a large site doesn’t mean we can fix your dog on a message board. The professional trainers who read this forum might offer suggestions, but they don’t work for free, although they are very kind to share their advice. Jax is a very accomplished handler and you blew her off. If you want real advice geared toward your problem, you could post a video of the dog reacting. It would mean getting someone to handle the dog while someone else records it and then film the exact reaction you describe. I don’t really even know what you are dealing with from your description.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

volumedown said:


> There is zero reason to give the dog back when she acts completely fine around us and in the house, that may just how it has to be and that's fine. I will continue to work on her behavior as previously mentioned, I just wanted to see if anybody else experienced the same issues.


Yes, people here have experienced the same issues. Either they get advice and follow it, get a real trainer or end up giving up the dog. Is that what you wanted to know? I had a problem with my WL and got a private trainer. It was expensive, but I had money put aside because I suspected I might need one with him. The trainer showed me how to get him to engage and focus. I worked more on obedience. I stopped putting him in the middle of anxious situations with strange dogs and worked him around dogs he knew and trusted. I worked with a trainer on and off for several years. But you don’t seem to want to hear that. I would like to help you as I can tell how upset you are.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

A 4mo old should not be displaying this type of behavior. Sounds like a genetic issue. You want to deal with it on your own go ahead but you better have good homeowners insurance.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

I'm not trying to push either way just my experience with trainers. I know how to do the training, I know what I should do. if you read my previous post you will see I gave you advice. I use trainers regularly not because I need to or that I cannot find a video or article on what I'm training or trying to correct but because they help my get there much quicker. 

What might take me a few months to train with some frustration on my part and the dogs doing alone, but with trainer helping to adjust things that are impossible for me see, they can observe and correct, my timing, my speed of walking, how I hold my hand, how I'm holding the leash when I giving the marker. Just changes of inches and seconds can have a huge impact. With their help we get dramatic improvements in weeks, sometime days. 

Don't know where you got thousands, I've worked with several good trainers. In Chicago and Gulf Shores, we been to three group classes for 6 weeks each at less 200 for each course. We have also had several 1:1 session at 80 and hour. That's 21 weeks of training for less than a grand. 

You might be very surprised at how much improvement even a few weeks of an extra set of experienced eyes can make. 

Good luck, don't give up on your pup, stay consistent, make it fun for the dog. Remember to stay positive, if you are frustrated, angry or fearful the dog can sense those. The saying is: your emotions travel down the leash.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

It’s not common, not ideal for me, but it happens. I would absolutely issue a correction for this type of behavior now, before it escalates. You can’t punish away fear and make the dog comfortable that way, but you can stop the behavior. Once I got that under control I would work ok rewarding calm, under control behavior. I don’t know your goals or purpose for the dog, but she needs to know when this type of behavior is and isn’t acceptable. You may be able to do it yourself or you may need help from a trainer.


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## Baileyshuman (Apr 26, 2021)

Personally, just as a fairly new gsd owner, my dog was people reactive until he was about 14 weeks old. We played LAT and similar games, and he soon got over it. But at the same time, my boy has been around kids since we got him at 10 weeks old (the next day he came home, my aunt came with her five young kids), and though he hasn’t been socialised AT ALL with young kids before he came home to us, he showed no fear or aggression. 
Maybe a puppy class could help? They tend to be cheaper and you could still talk to the trainer then. But I’m not completely sure. I hope it all works out


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

It sounds very much like a fear reaction and she could be in a fear period where things that once didn't worry her now do. It is essential you work with her at a distance she is comfortable with. So as soon as she reacts you know you are too close, try to watch and learn her body language and train and play at a distance she is comfortable with so she will engage with you and everything else around her just blends into the environment. Socialisation for me is not about my puppy meeting everyone and everything head on, but is about teaching the pup to focus on me while being comfortable in the environment with other things going on around. Try buying a special toy that your puppy isn't allowed at any other time (I use a rabbit fur tug with my pups and they love it), when you are at a comfortable (for your dog) distance from children, people, other dogs, whatever, then play with her, engage in a fast paced fun game of tug. Keep her on a leash or long line while doing this. Then as she is having a great old time, pop the tug away in your pocket and head home. Next day, same thing. Do not allow her to have the toy at home to just chew or play with - it has to be extra special. Owning a GSD is all about having control of that dog in all situations, and if you have that then you don't need to worry about whether she likes every dog or person she meets, as she will be focused on you and not interested in interacting with everyone else.
Her extreme reactions might be due to something that has frightened her previously (that you may not have even noticed), or just the stage she is at in her development (GSDs become frustrated very quickly and are usually pretty vocal about it) or it could well be down to her genetics. Did you meet her parents? Were they sound, stable dogs?


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## Bailey1220 (12 mo ago)

My dog was like this at 4 months. Wonderful in the home, great with my kids and gentle around the baby. Whenever we left the house she would lose it around every person/dog. We extensively socialized her as a pup and participated in a puppy kindergarten program. When she started to show us reactivity, we immediately addressed the issues right away with multiple professional trainers and worked very hard with her ourselves, for hours, every day. And she’s still fear reactive without the proper direction. Gosh I love her, but she is much more dog than I expected and after over a year of giving her my all (and a lot of money spent on training) we have realized it would be a better situation for all of us to responsibly rehome her to an experienced handler. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but I promise you this is a situation that warrants professional training from someone who knows fear reactive GSDs. Not every situation warrants a trainer, that’s true. This is a situation that absolutely does, especially if you are a first time GSD owner. This is not something that will simply go away with age or with a few months of amateur self-taught, and online researched training. A liability lawsuit from a dog bite is much more expensive than a trainer.


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## gtaroger (Aug 4, 2015)

I went through something simular to what you are going through now.I purchased apup from a well known breeder in Ontario.When I wnet there for the tour of his kennel he shoed me all his dogs.One of them was a beautiful large red and black male. He informed me that the dog was imported from germany.He was brought over to breed and that he was not going to ever breed him becouse he was way to aggressive. The only person who could get near him was the kennel owner.He showed me their stud dog which was a beautiful red and black with a very friendly temperment. Over all the dogs looked great and all imported from germany.All of them were schutzhund titled.I told him I was looking for a low energy family dog.He called me a couple months later and told me he had a new litter and that one of these pups would make a great family pet.I went over to Windsor and purchased a male pup from the litter He was 8 weeks old..At first the pup seemed like any normal GSD pup.At about 12 weeks old he started to show aggression signs. By 4 months I called a dog trainer that I have worked with in the past with a couple of my earlyer GSD's. We started with putting him in a obedience clase and working him alone with myself and the trainer. It did help,but after awhile he started to show his old behavior.I went through this problem for 5 1/2 years. Work with the trainer and he got to the point were I was the only person that he would respond to. All this time my wife and my daughter were trying to help with the training as well .It got to the point where I was afraid that if one of us slipped and didn't close the wooden front door . That when the kids came home from school that he would break through the store door glass and hurt one of the kids.He got to the point that he would set buy my wife while she was making dinner and nip her leg telling her he wanted some food. None of us ever feed him table scraps.I tried to rehome him with a trainer ,but no one wanted him. I was told he was to high of a liability risk.I have left out alot of crazy things that happened in that five years.I did find out at a later date that owner breed the big red dog that was to aggressive to breed. Turned out that my pup was from his first litter,and no I didn't ask for him to replace the dog.I ended up putting him down.Some times things don't go good no matter how hard you try and how much money you spend.No matter how much I loved him I couldn't keep a dog that would attack a child.


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## dawghevn (May 3, 2020)

volumedown said:


> I have another post regarding barking, but my issue seems to be getting a tad bit worse than that. I would like actual advice please and not "refer to a trainer".
> 
> Recently, Ava turned 4 months old, and a little bit before that she began barking at pretty much everyone she could, which I've read is normal and I wasn't to worried about that. We take her pretty much every where we can, since we got her at 8 weeks. She did fine with other people, didn't care for other dogs to much but didn't do anything about it. And then one day on a walk, she just began barking at someone with her hind hairs high in the sky and has not stopped since, will not let anybody come near her, and is absolutely terrified of other dogs. I tried to introduce her slowly back to other dogs, and it wasn't pretty (though i never really stopped, i just stopped trusting her off the leash). She wanted absolutely nothing to do with it.
> 
> ...


Some good advice here! I know how frustrating it can be. One particular thing that got my attention was “Stress” and “Believed that she may have bitten the child”. To add to previous comments, explore the copious amounts of information available about techniques dealing with dog’s stress/anxiety AND start muzzle training your pup. I would suggest training almost any dog to wearing a muzzle comfortably, just in case it may ever be needed. Certainly can’t hurt if trained & used properly. In your case, it may prevent a really bad situation until you can get a handle on it. Best of luck!


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

dawghevn said:


> Some good advice here! I know how frustrating it can be. One particular thing that got my attention was “Stress” and “Believed that she may have bitten the child”. To add to previous comments, explore the copious amounts of information available about techniques dealing with dog’s stress/anxiety AND start muzzle training your pup. I would suggest training almost any dog to wearing a muzzle comfortably, just in case it may ever be needed. Certainly can’t hurt if trained & used properly. In your case, it may prevent a really bad situation until you can get a handle on it. Best of luck!


Well, today she lunged at a 7 year old kid for seemingly no reason. I followed all of the socialization tips I could, and this behavior started. There is clearly an issue, and I'm worried if it has something to do with her parents or a similar situation.


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## markdog (Dec 8, 2021)

volumedown said:


> Well, today she lunged at a 7 year old kid for seemingly no reason. I followed all of the socialization tips I could, and this behavior started. There is clearly an issue, and I'm worried if it has something to do with her parents or a similar situation.


Hopefully this gives you an idea:


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

markdog said:


> Hopefully this gives you an idea:



That was a very good video with different view points I haven't seen in others. Thanks for that. I see alot of these problems start at the 4 month range so that's a "plus"


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## BleuHaus (Oct 31, 2020)

volumedown said:


> I have another post regarding barking, but my issue seems to be getting a tad bit worse than that. I would like actual advice please and not "refer to a trainer".
> 
> Recently, Ava turned 4 months old, and a little bit before that she began barking at pretty much everyone she could, which I've read is normal and I wasn't to worried about that. We take her pretty much every where we can, since we got her at 8 weeks. She did fine with other people, didn't care for other dogs to much but didn't do anything about it. And then one day on a walk, she just began barking at someone with her hind hairs high in the sky and has not stopped since, will not let anybody come near her, and is absolutely terrified of other dogs. I tried to introduce her slowly back to other dogs, and it wasn't pretty (though i never really stopped, i just stopped trusting her off the leash). She wanted absolutely nothing to do with it.
> 
> ...


If your girl was fine when you got her and she socialized just fine then something has happened since then...I mean it could have been someone not being nice to her or even another dog that started something with her...If all of that is not the reason then I would have her checked by a Neurologist and just let them see if they can find anything that would cause this change in character...It could be a pinched nerve or something else but they can let you know if they see anything that would attribute her new actions to...
Do you know the breeder and/or do you know the Sire & Dam?...If nothing else you can contact the breeder and tell them what your experiencing and see if they can shed any light on the situation...


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## BleuHaus (Oct 31, 2020)

volumedown said:


> Well it wasn't the first time she was around other kids, just the first time she acted like that. I have been doing things from a distance now


If I were you right now I'd get a Basket Muzzle but continue to socialize but at a distance...Stay away from what's bothering her...


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## volumedown (12 mo ago)

BleuHaus said:


> If I were you right now I'd get a Basket Muzzle but continue to socialize but at a distance...Stay away from what's bothering her...


I have been, I bought a new leash that directs her a little better when I correct her. She is doing better already with people being around. Just closing the distance she can be at and remain neutral


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## dynahd06 (Mar 12, 2020)

volumedown said:


> I continue to work with her, and will not give up like countless others have been given up on. I just find it weird how "random" the behavior started after doing so well with others. It's like she woke up a different dog one day, as far as outside goes. I do not go to crowded parks anymore.


 Hi ava, i'm going to tell you that this is normal for German Shepard dogs, i have logged thousands of hours on these dogs and one walk at ,or around your dogs age can be triggered, by one aggessive act by another dog or person. now she is in fight or flight .Unfortunatly these dogs want to fight.This is what she remembers because of the fear instilled,and her fear is aggression. but its a reaction is what you need to find,and stop. i am not a trainer just an owner of dogs for over 45 years. go read my post. DONT GIVE UP ON AVA ...she has a trigger what that is i cant say... my dog is a little over 5 years old and i have come to realize that she may never be a dog that i can walk up to a stranger and let them pet her ,i'm ok with that..she was traumatized. watch ava when she is around people or dogs she will build, first is a very direct stare and then panting stop breathing and lunge.this can happen in a matter of 5 seconds or less. if you can learn this pattern you can correct it before the lunge,take her away from the dog or person and slowly try again,If she is willing. if not take her out of her fear walk away. most German shepards are reactive not aggressive. this is the biggest misconception on german shepards.. I hope this makes sense. from what i have read ava is a normal german shepard and just needs direction..She gets scared and this is her release. hope this helps


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

dynahd06 said:


> German shepards are reactive not aggressive. this is the biggest misconception on german shepards.


 I don't buy this, of course there are truly aggressive GSDS just like any other breed, but my experience with three different GSDS is the opposite. They are not aggressive by default but will react to aggression in kind if I allowed it, just like most dogs would, however they are big, powerful, loud and scary looking when they do. 

Your next sentence is " She gets scared and this is her release". You're describing a reaction to fear, reactive.


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## dynahd06 (Mar 12, 2020)

drparker151 said:


> I don't buy this, of course there are truly aggressive GSDS just like any other breed, but my experience with three different GSDS is the opposite. They are not aggressive by default but will react to aggression in kind if I allowed it, just like most dogs would, however they are big, powerful, loud and scary looking when they do.
> 
> Your next sentence is " She gets scared and this is her release". You're describing a reaction to fear, reactive.


yes thats right i am. if someone hits you with something lets say a stick the next time he swings it. you will let them hit you again with it? or will you fight back to remove the stick..Same fear same reactive state. im not trying to start an argument.


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## dynahd06 (Mar 12, 2020)

dynahd06 said:


> yes thats right i am. if someone hits you with something lets say a stick the next time he swings it. you will let them hit you again with it? or will you fight back to remove the stick..Same fear same reactive state. im not trying to start an argument.


 And yes there aggressive gsds ..but we are talking about a now 9 month old puppy that they were having some issues with at 4 months old.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

I think I interpreted your comment opposite of what you meant. I though you were saying GSDs being reactive was a misconception and that they are aggressive.


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## dynahd06 (Mar 12, 2020)

Correct they are more reactive then aggressive.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

German *Shepherd*

It's in the name of the forum....

No one can fix this dog over the internet without more information. Either post video or get a trainer.


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## dynahd06 (Mar 12, 2020)

David Winners said:


> German *Shepherd*
> 
> It's in the name of the forum....
> 
> No one can fix this dog over the internet without more information. Either post video or get a trainer.


i would have to agree,but giving some good advise could go a long way sometimes. and could be the difference between fixing the dog or getting rid of him..


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

dynahd06 said:


> i would have to agree,but giving some good advise could go a long way sometimes. and could be the difference between fixing the dog or getting rid of him..


So what advice do you give? Is it fear, relationship, aggression, poor handling...

That's the problem. Without observing the dog, all we have to go on is the opinion of an inexperienced handler.


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## dynahd06 (Mar 12, 2020)

i'm not an expert at all. just a dog owner and nearly 4 years with a dog that has fear of people and most other dogs, the answer is all of what you said. shelby has been to 5 different trainers, the last one told me, i may want to think about putting her down, I about fasced out that door and did not return, I had what if fear, that trickled down the leash and was maybe the biggest part of it. In short shelby's fear gave me fear and intensified her aggression. i had to learn to relax when in the givin situation, and take complete control. this was my biggest issue. and for a long time i was in denial that i could be the problem at all. With that being said if a good trainer/behaviorist can get into your head and the dogs head together this is where your answer is. We both dog and i had issues. As far as advice i can only read and give an opinion. And in most cases we only get part of the story mine included. thanks


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