# All kinds. From rude to stupid (sorry this is text heavy)



## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

I wanted to vent a little bit about some of the people we met at the Doglympics yesterday.

First up: The Schutzhund group- When asking them questions they talked DOWN to us with a condescending attitude. Let me point out- we never distracted anyone who was working with a dog, just standing around. Dooney was getting all riled up watching the dogs chase the decoy and was barking a little bit- the guy next to me (with the schutzhund) immediately started telling me how she was showing her ass and what he would do. While she was barking yes- I don't see how she was showing her ass, she was under control. SHE wanted to chase the decoy.
Are most schutzhund people generally that arrogant and rude? I know there are several of you on the boards and none of you seem to be that way, so it took me back. The whole group of them just put me off from even wanting to watch the demo and learn anything (though their dogs were ABSOLUTELY beautiful and very well trained.

2nd up- future BYB. While trying to brush off the Schutzhund people another 8 month old GSD pup and her owners came up to us. We got to talking to him and he asked us if all our girls were fixed, then he proceeds to tell us how his neighbor is a k-9 cop and is helping alot with how to train his first GSD- oh ya and how he is going to breed her to the K9 cop's male dog so it will "calm her down"  We just bit our tongues and walked off- some people just can't be educated

3rd and most annoying- the GSD hater: so we get our dogs over to the snow and we are very happy that there are no other dogs in there and our dogs are running around tearing it up, then this lady comes in with her aussie? mix (not sure what it is) well he comes in running around and of course ours start playing with him. we all know how VOCAL the GSD's can be and ours did not dissappoint. Meanwhile the hater is saying "oh my gosh they are going to "pack" up on him. then she looks over at us and says they are nipping at him (she must have not seen Zira holding Dooney down in the snow by her throat) we told her that is just how they play. When it seemed Dooney was getting too rough I would call her off (just too rough for an overly paranoid other dog owner not for actually playing) She kept panicking and of course her dog could sense her nervousness and he was starting to get nervous too. Even the people in charge of the snow were telling this lady everything was ok and it was just playing- she finally asked us to hold our dogs so they could get some pics in the snow of her dog- all 3 dogs came when called and waited patiently for this lady to leave her "poor poor" baby. If you are afraid of GSD's why would you put your dog in with THREE of them?

4th- unattentive owner: A woman was there with her black GSD, this dog slightly lunged at ANY dog that happened to get within leash distance. I hadn't noticed Dooney had wandered a foot away from me and i heard a commotion I turned around to see her dog coming at mine and immediately pulled her back to me (out of reach) She gave her dog no correction (at the end of its leash) and didn't acknowledge when I attempted to say "sorry" She did the same thing to several other dogs.

Ok so thanks for letting me vent!!! 
of course we saw tons of NICE people and nice dogs and overall it was a great day.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

Yeeeaaaaah......don't eeeeven get me started with those people....it was definitely an all-around good day, though, despite the overwhelmingly negative display of the GSD breed. It was sorta sad that we seemed to be the only ones there (minus the Schutzhund dogs/owners, but I do not count them since they are workers and exhibitors, not people and their pets) that had well-behaved GSD's. It's nice to feel that we are representing the breed well, but it's frustrating that our hard work to show that the breed is not uncontrollable and/or vicious can be undone by a few imbeciles. 

That black shepherd and her owner were really the last straw for me, though. The idiot let her dog actually bite at other dogs, and then went 'oh....I didn't know he would bite...he's not usually into these kinds of things. We usually leave him at home. He doesn't know many other dogs' and I just wanted to facepalm, right there.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

But be happy, too, in knowing that you (hopefully) changed that young man with no time's mind about getting a GSD right now


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

1>>>> i've ran into a few Schutzhund people and their Schutzhund
dogs. some have an attitude and so do their dogs. if i had
a Schutzhund dog i would have an attidue also. i think
the attitude is well deserved from the human and the dog.
should Dooney have been barking? does she know
"no barking" or "quiet". was Dooney the only observer barking?
the man that offered advice was he correct in his advice?

2>>>> walking away was best.

3>>>> you can't blame people for being protective of their dogs. some people don't understand dog behaviour. what is play is taken for aggression.

4>>>> if your dog was near you would the other dog
have lunged? when the dog lunged was it being aggressive
or did it want to play?



Dooney's Mom said:


> I wanted to vent a little bit about some of the people we met at the Doglympics yesterday.
> 
> First up: The Schutzhund group- When asking them questions they talked DOWN to us with a condescending attitude. Let me point out- we never distracted anyone who was working with a dog, just standing around. Dooney was getting all riled up watching the dogs chase the decoy and was barking a little bit- the guy next to me (with the schutzhund) immediately started telling me how she was showing her ass and what he would do. While she was barking yes- I don't see how she was showing her ass, she was under control. SHE wanted to chase the decoy.
> Are most schutzhund people generally that arrogant and rude? I know there are several of you on the boards and none of you seem to be that way, so it took me back. The whole group of them just put me off from even wanting to watch the demo and learn anything (though their dogs were ABSOLUTELY beautiful and very well trained.
> ...


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Sorry that you guys met the worst of the worst. Met the woman who had the Black GSD at Petco and Petsmrt many times,usually with a extra small dog on an extra long leash and w/ an attack attitude. I think sometimes people who are into dogs kind of suck w/ people.Ive never met any schutzhund folk but at shows (AKC)Ive met some who need a human socialization class and at a few dog classes where those of us w/ problem dogs were walking out while the champs come in could make me want to face palm or let Daisy loose but I like their dogs.I sometimes cringe when i hear young adults say they are getting a dog and I have lost all people skills when I overwhelmingly told a young man he was barely keeping a roof over his head and the dog might not like being alone for 2 to three days cause he wanted to party.I have some skills but I lose them when it comes to kids and animals.I do think Alexandria makes a point that youwere excellent ambassadors for the breed. Btw ever been chased by a pissed off aussie? I have not fun.By the way at shows Ive met some great owner handler ,small breeder and really nice people maybe you just ran into the shutzhund group rock head. I do have a question if it was dog Olympics arent they supposed to expect dogs and let some dogs try stuff?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Now I'm so happy I went to Splash Dogs instead of the Doglympics. It was a small event, just dock diving and some silly games in between. There were three other GSDs and all were very well behaved, socialized, etc. Everyone was really friendly, too.
Sorry


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> 1>>>> i've ran into a few Schutzhund people and their Schutzhund
> dogs. some have an attitude and so do their dogs. if i had
> a Schutzhund dog i would have an attidue also. i think
> the attitude is well deserved from the human and the dog.
> ...


To be fair, she wasn't the only dog barking. And Wendy didn't just 'let it go' as the others were doing. He started to give her unsolicited advice while we were just trying to watch the dogs perform in the exhibition. A few of the other Schutzhund workers there were nice, but that guy (the one that didn't even interact with the dogs other than take a few pictures) was downright rude. There are ways to offer constructive criticism, and ways to act higher than you because you have a young, excited dog. If we had been bothering the working dogs, it would have been a little understandable - but the Schutzhund workers (besides him) didn't have a word to say about it, nor were they bothered - and neither were the dogs.



> 2>>>> walking away was best.


Agreed!



> 3>>>> you can't blame people for being protective of their dogs. some people don't understand dog behaviour. what is play is taken for aggression.


While I agree, partly, with this - the area was almost identical to a dog park atmosphere. Any dog was allowed in the snow area, offleash. When the woman came in with her dog (and immediately asked us if our dogs were going to pack up on her dog) she almost immediately started getting worried. While I can understand worrying about your dog (especially if it is considerably smaller than three other dogs in an off-leash area) when other dogs are playing rougher than you are used to, what I don't understand is why she felt the need to come into the area at the SAME time we were. If she was worried, she could have waited - or could have asked us if our dogs were going to be rough or 'pack' on her dog before entering. 

She went about it all wrong. We were diligent to remove our dogs when she started to get really worried about her dog. But as far as I see it, we waited for a group of dogs to finish before entering, and she could have too. Again - I see it similar to a dog park. You take the risk when you enter, that there will be dogs that play rougher than yours.



> 4>>>> if your dog was near you would the other dog
> have lunged? when the dog lunged was it being aggressive
> or did it want to play?


Ha, the one I was around that was actually bitten by the black GSD wasn't anywhere near that dog. In fact, the smaller pit/shiba/terrier looking mix that was standing in line waiting to do the dock diving near me, was RIGHT against their owner's leg when the GSD lunged and bit it. For no apparent reason other than the dog obviously doesn't have socialization around other dogs (or was tense/nervous in this new environment, especially once the woman said he isn't normally in environments like this one). And yes, it was an aggressive bite/lunge. I didn't see when he lunged at Dooney, but I saw him do it three other times to dogs in the area. Each time more and more aggressive and upsetting to the dogs and owners he was lunging at and biting. You could tell that this dog was very scared of where he was.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Pretty much ditto what Lauren said:

the Schutzhund folks to have a right to be very proud people- I am amazed at the level their dogs are at. Just they lack some people skills. dooney was not the only one barking- she was just the only one near Rude Man- I was quieting her down when he spoke up, and no I don't feel his advice was correct- You have to really "yell" at her for her to know you mean business- um...no I don't. Yes sometimes I get stearn and will raise my voice to her- but he was indicating i should scream at her--i wonder what his schutzhund training methods were??, but his advice was unsolicited.

the black lunging GSD...my dog was closer to me than she was to her dog, and it just left the area Lauren was in and attacking the other dog, the lady should have had her dog on a tighter leash knowing it was a lunger. Dooney was no more than a foot away from me on a 6 ft lead sitting with Zira. It was not playful, that dog was beyond nervous and did not belong there... or if she was trying to socialize it she should have been more attentive and not been in such a closed in area with so many dogs- maybe on the outskirts working her way in when the dog was comfortable with it

I LOVE MIKKO- I had an eye out for you, wasn't sure if you would be there or not. I am still very glad we went- we did have a blast! 



doggiedad said:


> 1>>>> i've ran into a few Schutzhund people and their Schutzhund
> dogs. some have an attitude and so do their dogs. if i had
> a Schutzhund dog i would have an attidue also. i think
> the attitude is well deserved from the human and the dog.
> ...


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Dooney's Mom said:


> immediately started telling me how she was showing her ass and what he would do.



God, I feel so old.  Is this some new slang?


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I didn't know what was meant by that comment either. My kids say all sort of weird sayings that I don't get.

To op sounds like. Frustrating day.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

BlackPuppy said:


> God, I feel so old.  Is this some new slang?


 
Here's a definition of it in the urban dictionary:

Urban Dictionary: Show your ass

But to be honest, I've seen dogs 'showing their ass' and I've seen dogs just get excited/pumped about something. Watching Dooney, she seemed to be doing the latter. Of course, I could be wrong, but from what I could tell she just got excited when the other dogs went to work and she couldn't have the chance behind the fence.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Too bad you're not around here. 
As to the Schutzhund folks, each club is different and the club attitude tends to take on the attitude of the TD or the clique of the club. Had you been at our club and your dog(assuming it is new to the whole Schutzhund thing) had started barking at the helper in excitement your dog would have gotten praise for their enthusiasm. We always explain that we want the new dogs excited and there is plenty of time further into training to learn control and restraint. 

IMHO, Aussie type folks are idiots . Sorry, but I deal with quite a few on a regular basis and the dogs tend to be sharp/shy and the owners seem to mimic the behavior (or it could be the other way around). 

As to the "showing her ass" term, I've heard that for years, so not new slang to me, maybe a regional thing? 

Annette


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

bocron said:


> Too bad you're not around here.
> As to the Schutzhund folks, each club is different and the club attitude tends to take on the attitude of the TD or the clique of the club. Had you been at our club and your dog(assuming it is new to the whole Schutzhund thing) had started barking at the helper in excitement your dog would have gotten praise for their enthusiasm. We always explain that we want the new dogs excited and there is plenty of time further into training to learn control and restraint.
> 
> IMHO, Aussie type folks are idiots . Sorry, but I deal with quite a few on a regular basis and the dogs tend to be sharp/shy and the owners seem to mimic the behavior (or it could be the other way around).
> ...


 
See - I like this. I wish they'd been a better representative of the sport, because I've always been somewhat interested in it, but the way he acted would have turned me off from it entirely, if it hadn't been for the fact that I know so many of you on here that participate/train in the sport and are nothing like him (and one of the others that was there doing the sport). It's too bad that we don't seem to have many around our area, and that so far there hasn't been a great representation of it.

Yeah, I think it really is a regional thing - my grandmother used to use the term all the time.

And the Aussie owner was an older woman, too, and was wearing an Affenpinscher shirt (so I doubt she comes into close contact with larger breeds very often), so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised when she started to get nervous with her dog around the larger dogs.

As I stated earlier, it's understandable for a dog owner to be a little concerned when dogs are chasing his/her dog or nipping/barking/growling at them. But to start acting in commenting in the way she did? That wasn't very fair. Yeah yeah, life isn't fair. But come on. Had my dog done anything serious or anythign that would have warranted removal, I would have not hesitated to take Alex out. But they were all playing and having fun (and so was the Aussie, until the owner started to get antsy and freak out). Eh....I dunno...sometimes, I just...bah.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

To be proud is understandable, to be arrogant is not called for. I don't care if you have the best trained dog in the universe, it doesn't grant you license to be an arrogant jerk of a human.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Personally, I only tolerate a minimal amount of distraction from other people's dogs during my training sessions with my dog. ESPECIALLY in protection work. At my club, it is common courtesy for those with dogs that get excited during protection work to park farther away so that they pose less of a distraction to those working. I have physically had to speak to some people who just allow their dogs to screech loudly during bite work, while I can't even get a command out loud enough so that my own dog can hear me. While I understand that during the trials, the dogs do their obedience routines two at a time and should be able to work under that level of distraction, I do not expect him to have to work through that noise during protection. It is his weakest phase in the sport, and I try to have his entire focus on training ALONE, and not another person's dog. 

So in my opinion, this man probably has the same feelings as myself. And I agree with bocron in the sense that your dog would have been praised for showing enthusiasm towards the helper, but that would have only been praised during his/her routine at my club. In no way am I saying that your dog would have been corrected for barking in the car, but I would have simply moved the car farther away to pose less of a distraction to the other dogs working.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> Personally, I only tolerate a minimal amount of distraction from other people's dogs during my training sessions with my dog. ESPECIALLY in protection work. At my club, it is common courtesy for those with dogs that get excited during protection work to park farther away so that they pose less of a distraction to those working. I have physically had to speak to some people who just allow their dogs to screech loudly during bite work, while I can't even get a command out loud enough so that my own dog can hear me. While I understand that during the trials, the dogs do their obedience routines two at a time and should be able to work under that level of distraction, I do not expect him to have to work through that noise during protection. It is his weakest phase in the sport, and I try to have his entire focus on training ALONE, and not another person's dog.
> 
> So in my opinion, this man probably has the same feelings as myself. And I agree with bocron in the sense that your dog would have been praised for showing enthusiasm towards the helper, but that would have only been praised during his/her routine at my club. In no way am I saying that your dog would have been corrected for barking in the car, but I would have simply moved the car farther away to pose less of a distraction to the other dogs working.


Just to clarify, we were not parked with our cars - we (including about a dozen or so others surrounding the fence with their dogs) were standing there watching the demonstration.

Not trying to say your point is any less valid, just wanting to clarify about where we were, etc. 

I cannot speak for the original poster in the sense that I do not know if her dog normally will bark at something such as Schutzhund when it gets excited, but I know that when mine growled during part of the demonstration while the dog was doing work near a pine located almost up against the fence where we were, I was actually somewhat surprised. I've never had the chance to see Schutzhund, or any high-intensity dog sports with my dog, so I could have honestly told you, had my dog barked, I wouldn't have expected it out of her.

Now, if I had been to events like these and had been able to take my dog and I KNEW that she was an excited barker/growler I would have either taught her not to, or just not brought her. But again, I cannot say whether the OP and her dog have ever had the chance to go to an event such as this - perhaps she didn't know that her dog would even make a peep?

There aren't that many 'high-intensity' dog events in Central Florida, so it is hard to expose our dogs to it and to know how they will react, especially since they are quieter or less riled up walking around other dogs during lower key events. At least, I haven't found many yet. But anyway, I digress.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Alexandria610 said:


> Just to clarify, we were not parked with our cars - we (including about a dozen or so others surrounding the fence with their dogs) were standing there watching the demonstration.


I misread the original message. In my experience with Schutzhund, there are no dogs allowed to observe during any phase of training whatsoever. All of our dogs are to be contained in a crate in our cars. I also do not bring my dog to observe with me at events where I know people are trying to have their dog focused on them. I know that I get pretty frustrated when I have worked very hard towards an event, only to result in a distracted routine caused by a bystander. It really sucks =/


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> I misread the original message. In my experience with Schutzhund, there are no dogs allowed to observe during any phase of training whatsoever. All of our dogs are to be contained in a crate in our cars. I also do not bring my dog to observe with me at events where I know people are trying to have their dog focused on them. I know that I get pretty frustrated when I have worked very hard towards an event, only to result in a distracted routine caused by a bystander. It really sucks =/


That's understandable - I can definitely see your point. If I were doing something like that with my dog in a competition or trial, then I wouldn't appreciate distractions either.

However, with this event, they were not doing trials or competing - only showing the sport in a demonstration to the public. They were a part of a large dog-friendly event where there were pet vendors, multiple events for 'pets' and their owners, and some amateur agility/dog games for pets of any breed, size, shape, and training.

To ask that nobody showed up to this particular event with a dog would sort of defeat the purpose of even having a 'doglympics' in the first place.

But again, if it were strictly a Schutzhund event, or something of the sort, I can understand where it would be a major distraction, and I would understand if the man spoke up as he had in this situation. There are many dog-related events coming up in the area (including the AKC/Eukanuba National Championship) that allow NO animals but the dogs registered to be shown/compete. So again, in that case, it would be VERY understandable. This event, however, was not that case.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

BlackPuppy said:


> God, I feel so old.  Is this some new slang?


Actually its old school ,my stepmothet who would be 90 said that when a kid was acting up.It might be regional I hear it alot here in Ohio. 

I have a question were the shutzhund people not there to do a demo at dog olympics whose purpose is to encourage people to bring their dog and try new stuff?Maybe I misunderstood it was shutzhund competition?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I understand why you brought your dogs to this event considering it was a public demonstration. I just found it kinda of strange that OP made the assumption that "most" Schutzhund people are arrogant and rude. I find that we just typically hold high standards to the way that we train and expect the same respect from bystanders.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> I understand why you brought your dogs to this event considering it was a public demonstration. I just found it kinda of strange that OP made the assumption that "most" Schutzhund people are arrogant and rude. I find that we just typically hold high standards to the way that we train and expect the same respect from bystanders.


 


Dooney's Mom said:


> Are most schutzhund people generally that arrogant and rude?


I guess it just depends on what you consider the OP to be saying here. I took it as her asking if most of the Schutzhund people are generally that arrogant and rude. Being that we do not get a lot of exposure to Schutzhund around this area, it's hard for us to know what they are like. 

The OP goes on to say that many of the Schutzhund people on here are not like that:



> I know there are several of you on the boards and none of you seem to be that way, so it took me back.


so I doubt she assumed that every Schutzhund person was rude and arrogant, it seemed to just be her venting frustrations about a certain individual that badly represented the sport to the public (most of whom know nothing of the traditions, type of training, type of people, or sport alltogether) and asking to clarify, in a way, that not all of the people who do Schutzhund are like that.



Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> I have a question were the shutzhund people not there to do a demo at dog olympics whose purpose is to encourage people to bring their dog and try new stuff?Maybe I misunderstood it was shutzhund competition?


They were indeed there to do a demo. I think they were trying to show the sport of Schutzhund to the public that knows very little of it, and to perhaps make people interested in it.

It was most definitely not a Schutzhund competition, just a demonstration. Here is a site to the Doglympics that may explain things in greater detail:

Doglympics USA

The event was entitled the 'Doglympics' because people could bring their dogs to this event and try things such as the dock diving (which actually had competitors being scored, but in-between the heats they had open practice for anyone wanting to try it with their dog), amatuer agility, fun 'doggy games' such as 'who has the longest stay', 'hot-dog dunk' etc., a lure course, and enjoy the festivities and pet vendors around the park area.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Well that one man, without _explaining _why he gave the reasoning behind his comment, could be considered as rude, but as to the other generalization, I am still unsure.
As I said before, I believe that with most clubs and Schutzhund events, it is common courtesy to have dogs who pose a distraction to be contained elsewhere. That is most likely his un-stated reason behind the comment. 
Hopefully that clarifies why the man reacted the way that he did. Had it been my dog in training, if he seemed distracted, I would have most likely have asked the owner of the barking dog to move elsewhere. And I would have been really surprised to find that it would be considered "rude" or "arrogant" to do so..


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> Well that one man, without _explaining _why he gave the reasoning behind his comment, could be considered as rude, but as to the other generalization, I am still unsure.
> As I said before, I believe that with most clubs and Schutzhund events, it is common courtesy to have dogs who pose a distraction to be contained elsewhere. That is most likely his un-stated reason behind the comment.
> Hopefully that clarifies why the man reacted the way that he did. Had it been my dog in training, if he seemed distracted, I would have most likely have asked the owner of the barking dog to move elsewhere. And I would have been really surprised to find that it would be considered "rude" or "arrogant" to do so..


I don't know. I guess you just had to be there and actually hear the way he said it, and what exactly he said. To ask us to move elsewhere would have been understandable, but to start giving unsolicited advice on the way she had the collar on her dog, her training methods outside of the barking, and to start condescendingly shake his head and openly state 'wouldn't happen with me' was what I would consider rude, and what I would assume most people would consider rude.

I could be wrong, though.

Like I stated earlier - the other Schutzhund members of that group were nice, and one of the handlers that was wearing the bite suit and bite sleeve did not talk down to me when I openly asked him about Schutzhund, and actually told me that he liked my dog's 'spunk' when she growled at the dog performing. 

I guess I'm just not the 'type of person' to be involved in the sport of Schutzhund. And I can honestly say, that had the dog closest to him that showed interest and spoke up been a different breed than a GSD, that he probably wouldn't have said anything. He sure didn't seem to care about the Doberman Pinscher on his other side that lunged at the fence, wagging his tail and barking in shrieks (with an owner that didn't even stop the dog). 

I think, in defense of the guy, that perhaps (aside from the dog's bark being a possible distraction) he was hoping that if we were interested in Schutzhund, that we understood the 'high' standards that he held for the sport, his dogs, and the club in general, and that the dogs should, in a sense, know their place and keep quiet while not performing or working.

But maybe I'm just looking too far into this whole thing?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

"showing your ass" is a term that's older than dirt.



Dooney's Mom said:


> Let me point out- we never distracted anyone who was working with a dog, just standing around. Dooney was getting all riled up watching the dogs chase the decoy and was barking a little bit-
> 
> >>>>the guy next to me (with the schutzhund) immediately started telling me how she was showing her ass and what he would do. <<<<<
> 
> While she was barking yes- I don't see how she was showing her ass, she was under control. SHE wanted to chase the decoy.





BlackPuppy said:


> God, I feel so old.  Is this some new slang?


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> I understand why you brought your dogs to this event considering it was a public demonstration. I just found it kinda of strange that OP made the assumption that "most" Schutzhund people are arrogant and rude. I find that we just typically hold high standards to the way that we train and expect the same respect from bystanders.


I simply ASKED if MOST were this way, since the majority of you on here do not seem to be that way, cocky yes....rude no. Cocky and rude are 2 different things IMO


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Cocky?


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

GatorDog said:


> Well that one man, without _explaining _why he gave the reasoning behind his comment, could be considered as rude, but as to the other generalization, I am still unsure.
> As I said before, I believe that with most clubs and Schutzhund events, it is common courtesy to have dogs who pose a distraction to be contained elsewhere. That is most likely his un-stated reason behind the comment.
> Hopefully that clarifies why the man reacted the way that he did. Had it been my dog in training, if he seemed distracted, I would have most likely have asked the owner of the barking dog to move elsewhere. And I would have been really surprised to find that it would be considered "rude" or "arrogant" to do so..


Had me asked to move further away from the fence, I would not have thought it rude, but it wasn't HIS dog that was in there, it was an Orlando K9 cop dog in the fence at the time. With all of the other dogs in the area barking, I found it rude and arrogant that he honed in on me and my dog especially when I pretty much had mine quieted down by the time he said something. So what I wasn't correcting my dog as he saw fit, last I checked it is MY dog and its not like I looked at him and asked for help. Dooney had been holding her down/stay quit excellently up until the decoy started running, so its not as if I had some obnoxious hellhound that had been barking non stop up until he said something, AND its not like I was just standing there not correcting her behaviour. And again this was not a Schutzhund event, nor was it a HUGE field that a dog could not hear its handler over ALL of the barking dogs, it was a PUBLIC demonstration. If i showed up at a SChutzhund event with a barking dog, I would say nothing of the rude jerk.

Some people are just down right jerks and there is no help for it- they lack in social skills-which is probably why he is so into dogs in the first place. I think this guy falls into that category. He is just who he is, I was simply venting about someone that was there to show the PUBLIC all about Schutzhund. If he didn't want to be out in the public or dealing with the public and dogs that aren't as well trained as his, maybe he should just stick to his "club" people and not bring his dog out in public.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Guess I would have to have been there to actually witness the event/what was said to totally understand.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Around here, people will say "raising" your ass, instead of "showing." Guess it means the same thing?


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

chelle said:


> Around here, people will say "raising" your ass, instead of "showing." Guess it means the same thing?


wow, i never heard of "raising" it. LOL but yes it probably does. Just means acting up/ showing how bad you can be.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Dooney's Mom said:


> wow, i never heard of "raising" it. LOL but yes it probably does. Just means acting up/ showing how bad you can be.


LOL That expression literally makes me laugh out loud. I've never heard that up here!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

hehehe..yup I was told to encourage that too. However, my girl lays down, crosses her paws over each other in a _regal_ manner and quietly observes the shenanigans of the dogs and trainer.

She just doesn't rev up until it's her turn... 






bocron said:


> Too bad you're not around here.
> As to the Schutzhund folks, each club is different and the club attitude tends to take on the attitude of the TD or the clique of the club. Had you been at our club and your dog(assuming it is new to the whole Schutzhund thing) had started barking at the helper in excitement your dog would have gotten praise for their enthusiasm. We always explain that we want the new dogs excited and there is plenty of time further into training to learn control and restraint.
> 
> IMHO, Aussie type folks are idiots . Sorry, but I deal with quite a few on a regular basis and the dogs tend to be sharp/shy and the owners seem to mimic the behavior (or it could be the other way around).
> ...


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

I was right next to Dooney's Mom when that man was trying to correct Dooney. It was uncalled for, unprofessional, and not solicited. I also do not agree with his approach to correcting Dooney.... you do not have to be harsh to have a dog listen. Stern and confident yes, Yelling and yanking... No.

I also just have to add.... I was the first of us to approach the same Shutzhund guy to ask when they were starting the demo.

When I asked him (he was just standing around with the other members waiting for the Doglympics people to decide when they could start... not busy setting up), he just looked at me and said "soon". I then added, "It's really great to see you all here. Shutzhund is never spoken of here in Orlando... honestly, I didn't even know we had any clubs here!". 

I asked where they were located, and told them that eventually I was really interested in learning more about the sport and possibly becoming a part of it some day (Also told him, obviously not with Zira, who was next to me, since she was a rescue and far from stable enough for that). He then continued to talk down to me about how the sport takes a specific dog with a specific owner. I told him I understood that and already had a few breeders in mind that would be shipping in from Germany (I love German bred shepherds, my dream to own one). He laughed in my face and said... Yeah, well you're looking at (and he named some large dollar amount in german currency), and continued to chuckle under his breath and walked away.

Now, I know I tend to look fairly young to many, and I am sure he figured I didn't know what I was talking about..... but, I found it pretty darn rude! I was instantly very irritated with this lack of respect. For one, I am not an idiot... I know it takes a specific dog with a specific temperament and drive (just like most sports... all have special desired traits!). I definitely wouldn't be picking the puppy out by myself... I would be going with a trainer for professional advice and guidance. 

I was also shocked that instead of promoting his sport (which... if you're doing a demo... isn't that the point?!"), he instead was talking down and acting as if no one else could do it. Who knows.... the future 'top' shutzhund handler could have been somewhere standing around that fence line during the demo..... who is he to assume that no one is good enough without even seeing what they can do.

With all that said, I've only known shutzhund people on here, not in person since it's so foreign here in Central FL. I never found any of them to be rude like that... actually, they have always been very nice and so informative of their sport... like they actually wanted people to learn about it and understand it. So, I was extremely taken back as well with this man..... and I definitely never want to do business with him, completely turned me away.

The others I spoke with in that group seemed to be very friendly though. (So, just like Lauren and Wendy stated.... I'm also not stating ALL are that way... just surprised in this mans attitude while out in public promoting HIS sport, and HIS club! Most would have appreciated the questions and chance to talk about their passion..)


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

bocron said:


> Too bad you're not around here.
> As to the Schutzhund folks, each club is different and the club attitude tends to take on the attitude of the TD or the clique of the club. Had you been at our club and your dog(assuming it is new to the whole Schutzhund thing) had started barking at the helper in excitement your dog would have gotten praise for their enthusiasm. We always explain that we want the new dogs excited and there is plenty of time further into training to learn control and restraint.
> 
> IMHO, Aussie type folks are idiots . Sorry, but I deal with quite a few on a regular basis and the dogs tend to be sharp/shy and the owners seem to mimic the behavior (or it could be the other way around).
> ...


dang I wish you were closer to us! I doubt it is acceptable, but I so wanted to ask the decoy when everything was over if he would just run from Dooney so I could see what she could do and what he thought of her. I don't think schutzhund is my thing, but with Dooney's desire to chase any living thing...(i know more goes into it than that) but she'd probably be good at it. Yes I do need to work on her impulse control and she has gotten alot better!!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I was wondering about that too when I started, the yelling of commands. However I am learning that it's because sometimes there is a need for it. Generally I can use a normal tone of voice for heel, sit. If a dog is in 'drive' then a louder voice firm voice may be needed. 

I was having problems with the 'down' in group class. Trainer told me to use a louder firm voice because the down is a submissive position around other dogs and she was hesitating. So I just kicked the voice up a notch and boom, she dropped into the perfect down.

Now if the dog is doing bite work and the handler wants the dog to let go of the helpers arm, the dog is down field, things of that nature the command has to be loud and clear. 

BTW: Sounds like someone needs to start schutzhund with their dog who appears to have a healthy interest in it!  

I'm jealous, what a fun thing to attend and it sounds like overall a really fun event!




Dooney's Mom said:


> Pretty much ditto what Lauren said:
> 
> the Schutzhund folks to have a right to be very proud people- I am amazed at the level their dogs are at. Just they lack some people skills. dooney was not the only one barking- she was just the only one near Rude Man- I was quieting her down when he spoke up, and no I don't feel his advice was correct- You have to really "yell" at her for her to know you mean business- um...no I don't. Yes sometimes I get stearn and will raise my voice to her- but he was indicating i should scream at her--i wonder what his schutzhund training methods were??, but his advice was unsolicited.
> 
> <snipped>


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't know the event , however here is another perspective. If this was a club event for a public display , chances are that the dogs participating are all known entities and all owners are covered by some group insurance and have signed waivers . 
Maybe the concern was the Dooney dog being excited "SHE wanted to chase the decoy" , and maybe discharging at someone standing nearby , or being contrary to the image that the schutzhund club was trying to portray to the public (control) with dogs doing bite work.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

ya know....schutzhund reminds me of dressage in a lot of ways.

Some snotty people with expensive imported warmblood horses but there were also lots of nice friendly helpful people who didn't have expensive horses. They may not make it to the olympics with their horses but most of those snooty people with the high $$$$ horses weren't going to be short listed for the olympic team any time in their lives either.

Same with just about every sport/group you know...... don't let it turn you off of the sport if you're interested. Gotta ignore the showoffs.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Tricky shepherd Sometimes when people do something that is extremely different or few people do it there tends to be some who want it to stay the very few.I in my job belong to an organization that is wonderful but when I go to our national conference and you make the mistake of talking to one of the masters it is a unending series of condescencion and frustration. I am what would be considered a journeyman in that organization I get some flack cause I believe the more people who know the better we are.You guys may have run into someone who was not in favor of the public demo to the great unknown public.Heck it may have nothing to do w/ schutzhund he could just be a knucklehead,they are everywhere. I want to learn about shutzhund I'm going to reach out to a club in PA and find out if I can observe i know some of the rules as i have checked out the respective clubs in the area websites. Maybe find a club Mr Knucklehead isnt at. Best revenge is to live well and beat them at their own game. I dont mean do schutzhund the fact is the three of you spenda great deal of time w/ you dogs and trtain them. If you think schutzhund is what you want to do try it if not forget it do something you like and your dog will enjoy.Schutzhund is impressive but so are SAR dogs ,herding dogsand therapy dogs
Maggi


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> ya know....schutzhund reminds me of dressage in a lot of ways.
> 
> Some snotty people with expensive imported warmblood horses but there were also lots of nice friendly helpful people who didn't have expensive horses. They may not make it to the olympics with their horses but most of those snooty people with the high $$$$ horses weren't going to be short listed for the olympic team any time in their lives either.
> 
> Same with just about every sport/group you know...... don't let it turn you off of the sport if you're interested. Gotta ignore the showoffs.


This!



Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Tricky shepherd Sometimes when people do something that is extremely different or few people do it there tends to be some who want it to stay the very few.I in my job belong to an organization that is wonderful but when I go to our national conference and you make the mistake of talking to one of the masters it is a unending series of condescencion and frustration. I am what would be considered a journeyman in that organization I get some flack cause I believe the more people who know the better we are.You guys may have run into someone who was not in favor of the public demo to the great unknown public.Heck it may have nothing to do w/ schutzhund he could just be a knucklehead,they are everywhere. I want to learn about shutzhund I'm going to reach out to a club in PA and find out if I can observe i know some of the rules as i have checked out the respective clubs in the area websites. Maybe find a club Mr Knucklehead isnt at. Best revenge is to live well and beat them at their own game.
> Maggi


And this too!!!


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I was wondering about that too when I started, the yelling of commands. However I am learning that it's because sometimes there is a need for it. Generally I can use a normal tone of voice for heel, sit. If a dog is in 'drive' then a louder voice firm voice may be needed.
> 
> I was having problems with the 'down' in group class. Trainer told me to use a louder firm voice because the down is a submissive position around other dogs and she was hesitating. So I just kicked the voice up a notch and boom, she dropped into the perfect down.
> 
> ...



I agree that when working protection work.... sometimes a clear, loud command is needed. But, we were just standing there watching an event.. relaxed. I mean... for sit and down and other simple obedience... that's a bit much I think. I give Zira stern commands, and every once in a while I find the need to raise my voice a bit. But, I don't HAVE to yell and yank her to have her listen to simple commands. He was just being a twit. 

I agree, someone does need to start a real club here where everyone is enthusiastic and passionate about their sport.... would be nice! And, other then that black shepherd & the crazy aussie owners, the future BYB, and rude shutzhund guy.... it really was an awesome event! We all had a blast, and very tired dogs! I am glad I was able to be there!


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> ya know....schutzhund reminds me of dressage in a lot of ways.
> 
> Some snotty people with expensive imported warmblood horses but there were also lots of nice friendly helpful people who didn't have expensive horses. They may not make it to the olympics with their horses but most of those snooty people with the high $$$$ horses weren't going to be short listed for the olympic team any time in their lives either.
> 
> Same with just about every sport/group you know...... don't let it turn you off of the sport if you're interested. Gotta ignore the showoffs.



Couldn't agree more! I did dressage for a while in college and I loved it... however, you always ran into those sorts of people. It's not the majority, so you just have to enjoy your sport for all the reasons you love it and walk away from them... it's not worth ruining a whole sport, or giving it a bad name.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Tricky shepherd Sometimes when people do something that is extremely different or few people do it there tends to be some who want it to stay the very few.I in my job belong to an organization that is wonderful but when I go to our national conference and you make the mistake of talking to one of the masters it is a unending series of condescencion and frustration. I am what would be considered a journeyman in that organization I get some flack cause I believe the more people who know the better we are.You guys may have run into someone who was not in favor of the public demo to the great unknown public.Heck it may have nothing to do w/ schutzhund he could just be a knucklehead,they are everywhere. I want to learn about shutzhund I'm going to reach out to a club in PA and find out if I can observe i know some of the rules as i have checked out the respective clubs in the area websites. Maybe find a club Mr Knucklehead isnt at. Best revenge is to live well and beat them at their own game. I dont mean do schutzhund the fact is the three of you spenda great deal of time w/ you dogs and trtain them. If you think schutzhund is what you want to do try it if not forget it do something you like and your dog will enjoy.Schutzhund is impressive but so are SAR dogs ,herding dogsand therapy dogs
> Maggi



Very true!

However, those people just... confuse me. Without educating the 'new generation' and bringing more prospects into the mix...... it would die out. And that goes for any sport, or organization. To bring new people in is to keep the tradition alive! If you love what you do so much... wouldn't you WANT to pass it along? I don't know... people are weird sometimes. This man was definitely just a butt head, and one of the few (I hope) that give the sport a bad outlook. I know there are plenty of great people who do it... so I try not to let this push me away from Shutzhund in general.. just that specific club.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yes, I understand and agree it was not his dog to command.

What I was responding to was Doony pondering about it in general, in schutzhund training. If you start training in schutzhund you'll find they can be louder then one is maybe used to. 

I had giggle 'cause I used to wonder the same thing and I have soft voice to boot. My trainer was making fun of me the other day.   I gotta man up my voice or something. 

I think this guy was being a jerk and trying to be a show off....

Since you've been around dressage you know how it is. 



TrickyShepherd said:


> I agree that when working protection work.... sometimes a clear, loud command is needed. But, we were just standing there watching an event.. relaxed. I mean... for sit and down and other simple obedience... that's a bit much I think. I give Zira stern commands, and every once in a while I find the need to raise my voice a bit. But, I don't HAVE to yell and yank her to have her listen to simple commands. He was just being a twit.
> 
> I agree, someone does need to start a real club here where everyone is enthusiastic and passionate about their sport.... would be nice! And, other then that black shepherd & the crazy aussie owners, the future BYB, and rude shutzhund guy.... it really was an awesome event! We all had a blast, and very tired dogs! I am glad I was able to be there!


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Thats terribly unfortunate for you guys to have bumped into such poor sportsmanship attitudes. 

As for being a distraction. Me and my pitbull were asked to be used as a Schutzhund Demo for a Dogtober fest event (a halloween event used to fundraise money to help donate to local rescues).

There were tons of other dogs there, barking, carrying on, walking around. Someone even had the nerve to walk ON THE FIELD while we were doing bitework (the announcer had to yell at them)
Despite all of those distractions, all of our club members dogs and people used it as a perfect opportunity for a distraction. My dog along with other members and dogs had no problem demonstrating our obedience & protection through those distractions.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I was wondering about that too when I started, the yelling of commands. However I am learning that it's because sometimes there is a need for it. Generally I can use a normal tone of voice for heel, sit. If a dog is in 'drive' then a louder voice firm voice may be needed.
> 
> I was having problems with the 'down' in group class. Trainer told me to use a louder firm voice because the down is a submissive position around other dogs and she was hesitating. So I just kicked the voice up a notch and boom, she dropped into the perfect down.
> 
> ...


I had thought about it, since her pedigree is LOADED with it. But I don't think that is a sport you can do half way. I would love to just "halfway" do it and watch her bitework with the sleeve and the decoy but that would be the extent of it. I don't want to encourage her to bring down people though, lol. Seeing as I am still working on getting her to not chase me anymore when I inadvertantly thought it was a good thing to do. took a while to break that one, and she still does it on occassions


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Dooney's Mom said:


> I had thought about it, since her pedigree is LOADED with it. But I don't think that is a sport you can do half way. I would love to just "halfway" do it and watch her bitework with the sleeve and the decoy but that would be the extent of it. I don't want to encourage her to bring down people though, lol. Seeing as I am still working on getting her to not chase me anymore when I inadvertantly thought it was a good thing to do. took a while to break that one, and she still does it on occassions


Well I started it just because I liked the training method that my mentor uses for obedience and then I gradually started in with protection and now I'm addicted. =P Schutzhund teaches an amazing amount of self control in your dog and really strengthened the bond that we have together. And even if you're just doing it as a hobby, I would highly recommend it to anyone with a GSD who is looking to learn.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

We have a lady in our group who is getting her dog certified for cadaver search and then she's just working on protection on the side (the dog really digs it!).

I think it depends on the trainer/group.

Perhaps you should ask that question in the Schutzhund forum.

....but if you're like me I was in it only for the obedience and then I got hooked and my dog, though lady like and regal, we are finding she has the _on_ switch! 




Dooney's Mom said:


> I had thought about it, since her pedigree is LOADED with it. But I don't think that is a sport you can do half way. I would love to just "halfway" do it and watch her bitework with the sleeve and the decoy but that would be the extent of it. I don't want to encourage her to bring down people though, lol. Seeing as I am still working on getting her to not chase me anymore when I inadvertantly thought it was a good thing to do. took a while to break that one, and she still does it on occassions


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Yes, I understand and agree it was not his dog to command.
> 
> What I was responding to was Doony pondering about it in general, in schutzhund training. If you start training in schutzhund you'll find they can be louder then one is maybe used to.
> 
> ...


I completely understand your comment on that... and like I said, I agree with that type of work.. sometimes those dogs need a tough tone in their commands (from my untrained opinion). Just found his words to be completely out of place... as you said, he was just being a jerk. Which, I've been in the 'horse world' my whole life... and we have a ton of that too... so, I'm used to it. 

Every sport has them...

(Btw, I have a softer voice too... I am sure it'd be hard for me to 'be tough' as well! lol!)


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

You beat me to it! I said something similar just after you posted....





GatorDog said:


> Well I started it just because I liked the training method that my mentor uses for obedience and then I gradually started in with protection and now I'm addicted. =P Schutzhund teaches an amazing amount of self control in your dog and really strengthened the bond that we have together. And even if you're just doing it as a hobby, I would highly recommend it to anyone with a GSD who is looking to learn.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

In some ways it is a real switching of gears because you just don't use that type of voice around horses that much. So my soft voice was more of an asset for that and I was good at calming spooky horses. 



TrickyShepherd said:


> I completely understand your comment on that... and like I said, I agree with that type of work.. sometimes those dogs need a tough tone in their commands (from my untrained opinion). Just found his words to be completely out of place... as you said, he was just being a jerk. Which, I've been in the 'horse world' my whole life... and we have a ton of that too... so, I'm used to it.
> 
> Every sport has them...
> 
> (Btw, I have a softer voice too... I am sure it'd be hard for me to 'be tough' as well! lol!)


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## TankGrrl66 (Jun 29, 2010)

Sounds like a frustrating day!

With the SchH crowd, remember basic human psychology here...you are an 'outsider', and there are many groups in the world where you have to know someone already to be actually accepted. They just sound like one of those tough groups to break into.

I can kind of get sheltie ladies point, but if she was that nervous she should have kept her dog with her. I have encountered a few people like that when I used to go to dog parks...my dog would play, but as soon as they were really playing the owner would flip out. 

Haters gonna hate, lol.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

GatorDog said:


> As I said before, I believe that with most clubs and Schutzhund events, it is common courtesy to have dogs who pose a distraction to be contained elsewhere. That is most likely his un-stated reason behind the comment.


Probably a stupid question but shouldn't the dogs be able to work WITH the distraction?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

The pressure of performing in front of a large group of people is enough distraction to a dog, let alone perform in front of other barking dogs. It's just the way things go at professional trials.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GatorDog said:


> The pressure of performing in front of a large group of people is enough distraction to a dog, let alone perform in front of other barking dogs. It's just the way things go at *professional* trials.


 
Seems like a professional should be able to ignore a barking dog! (unless the dog is right up in it's face!)


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

codmaster said:


> Seems like a professional should be able to ignore a barking dog! (unless the dog is right up in it's face!)


I would think so too. In other sports dogs are going crazy barking watching the dogs- like in flyball and agility- and they aren't distracted.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

There are just no Schutzhund clubs in our area. From what I understand the best one we have is way over in Tampa, which is a 2 hour drive for me or longer.... The club Rude Jerk was from is closer, but well we all know I am not going to that guy. My breeder uses a place about an hour away, but another breeder/friend I know told me to stay away from that place, read up on it and I agree. So basically unless i want to drive 2 hours each way, I am screwed on doing that with her.

That is why all 3 of us were so excited to see them there, they lost 3 potential people though, it is really sad. The obedience/agility trainer I am going to be using come January also trains k9 cop dogs and was a trainer for the English royalty as well, he is also going to start up scent work classes, and I want to bring Dooney to them as well. I really like this guy as a trainer, he loves and understands shepherds and after just one class with him, Dooney is soooo much better. 

Going to throw a bit of a brag in here..... Had Dooney on the 20 ft lead line in the back of my still under construction subdivision and there were some kids playing in the yard- I was able to put her in a sit/stay...walk away with my back to her to the end of the line and waited a few minutes before asking her to come. Then i worked on the down stay- she also did well with that. She has come a really long way in the matter of a month. getting her out to these events is helping A LOT


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

GatorDog said:


> The pressure of performing in front of a large group of people is enough distraction to a dog, let alone perform in front of other barking dogs.


Not necessarily, we have been doing Schutzhund for many years. We have also trained K9 units. We have done demos for both at large events. In no way would I expect silence from the crowd at a demo, human OR canine. They have no idea what is involved and are there to have fun and hopefully learn. The guy described in one of the posts sounds like a DB ego maniac. 
Even at our Schutzhund practices, we frequently have new dogs watch from the sidelines. When they bark at the activity on the field they get praised. We don't allow this to occur when the dog on the field is at the point of learning a new skill, but when the dog on the field is steady and focused. We consider the dog on the sidelines just another distraction. It's not like the new dog will do this for weeks, just a time or two to let them get excited and then they have to save it for the field so to speak. 
We have done demos at the local rodeo day, at the 4th of July festival, at a Veteran's day gathering, in a mall, you name it. There are ALWAYS people who don't know the proper etiquette of a dog trial, but they aren't at a dog trial so why should they. The dogs doing the protection portion at these demos are always the best trained in the club, not only because we want to show the best work, but also because these are the dogs that are ready for the level of distraction at this type of event. The new dogs in the club get to demo some of the obedience or tracking or just be around to be pet and the handlers can answer questions. 
Either way, the point of a demo is to entertain and educate. Making the lay person see it as a beneficial sport and to hopefully get new people interested in the sport. Being a condescending jerk doesn't achieve either of these objectives, it sure didn't in the case of the OP who left the event with a bad taste in her mouth about what "Schutzhund people" were like. 
If someone came up to one of us at a demo and stated they were interested and were researching getting a dog to hopefully get involved in the sport we would be psyched!


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

bocron said:


> If someone came up to one of us at a demo and stated they were interested and were researching getting a dog to hopefully get involved in the sport we would be psyched!


We need to go up and visit your club, then! Sounds very inviting and educational to people who are interested.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

still from another angle -- it would have been a good opportunity to use the situation as a training experience. 
Here is an excerpt from a Suzanne Clothier article 
"He's just over excited." Just as parents bear some
responsibility for their children's actions, dog owners have a responsibility to help their
puppies act in an appropriate way - not to excuse rudeness.
Sometimes, this requires that we not allow a young dog (or a dog of any age) to escalate
to such a high level of excitement and arousal. As a rule of thumb, the more excited and​emotional a dog 
becomes, the less capable they are of thinking clearly and acting​appropriately.

The concern is not so much the control and focus of the dog performing in the ring as the control and focus of the dogs outside of the ring.

One year at one of the matches held on the grounds of the old Shurgain farms a dog held by a spectator tore out of his owners grasp and entered the fray , started fighting with the dog doing protection work. That was a real mess .
The following year there was a strict policy . Only dogs required in the ring were allowed on the field. Others had to wait their turn in their vehicles.
This I know well because we did not have a personal car so I was dropped off with my dog while husband and daughter went to town in the rented car for lunch and a stroll . I had to borrow a spare crate so that I could stand by ringside to watch the trials.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

This was just one guy right? Who really cares what ONE guy thinks anyway.
There are people like him in every single sport across the globe weather it involves animals or not. He sounds like a prat.....so who cares what he thinks.....water off a ducks back.....bark your hardest Dooney and i'm sure you have a lovely ass


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

carmspack said:


> still from another angle -- it would have been a good opportunity to use the situation as a training experience.
> Here is an excerpt from a Suzanne Clothier article
> "He's just over excited." Just as parents bear some
> responsibility for their children's actions, dog owners have a responsibility to help their
> ...


 
And that would indeed be understandable, if that were the case. But it was not. Dooney barked a total of three, _maybe_ four times, and within a few seconds of the initial bark emitted from the dog's throat, her owner was able to quiet her. It was after said barking and the owner's action of quieting her down that the rude man spoke. 

The owner is smart enough to know that if her dog was acting out any further than this, or was becoming uncontrollable, or even to the point of possibly acting irrationally, that she would have removed the dog immediately. Since it was nothing more than a few barks in the direction of the fenced-in ring, there was really no need for anything other than a swift correction - which was, indeed, performed.

Again, it is most understandable that one would worry about the situation above, but considering what I stated just above this sentence, it would seem that the dog was far from acting irrationally or harming anything or anyone in the near vicinity.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Alexandria610 said:


> We need to go up and visit your club, then! Sounds very inviting and educational to people who are interested.


Absolutely! Come on .
Honestly, this was the goal when we started this club. My husband titled his first dog in 1981, so you could say he's been around for a bit. He has been to the Regionals and the Nationals, and while he was honored to go, we realized that wasn't really his thing. Some where along the way we started thinking about Schutzhund like tennis and decided that other clubs could focus on "Wimbledon" but that we preferred getting people involved at a local level and hoped it would become a lifelong excursion, like the tennis nuts around here. They love it and are thrilled if they make it to the city finals, but the week in week out matches are the backbone.
We have people in our club with lab mixes, dogs who never saw Schutzhund until they were WAY past puppyhood, you name it. We also have a few people who have researched and bought a "competition" dog after getting their feet wet with a rescue. Whatever, we aren't exclusive in the least. A number of people join the obedience or tracking only membership, and that is fine, too. 
As I tell people who call us to ask about the club, go check out as many clubs as you can and if you find a club that you and your dog enjoy, then that is the right club. There are a bunch of great clubs in Florida (just like in GA) we have been to a few at trials and met some great long timers, so keep looking. You never know, that club that did the demo may be just right, and that one guy was just being a jerk. We find that the newer people tend to be more superior about the sport, especially if they themselves have a dog that isn't the greatest yet. Believe me, when I think about how I portrayed the sport 15 years ago and how I look at it now, I want to smack my ownself LOL.


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

bocron said:


> Absolutely! Come on .
> Honestly, this was the goal when we started this club. My husband titled his first dog in 1981, so you could say he's been around for a bit. He has been to the Regionals and the Nationals, and while he was honored to go, we realized that wasn't really his thing. Some where along the way we started thinking about Schutzhund like tennis and decided that other clubs could focus on "Wimbledon" but that we preferred getting people involved at a local level and hoped it would become a lifelong excursion, like the tennis nuts around here. They love it and are thrilled if they make it to the city finals, but the week in week out matches are the backbone.
> We have people in our club with lab mixes, dogs who never saw Schutzhund until they were WAY past puppyhood, you name it.* We also have a few people who have researched and bought a "competition" dog after getting their feet wet with a rescue. *Whatever, we aren't exclusive in the least. A number of people join the obedience or tracking only membership, and that is fine, too.
> As I tell people who call us to ask about the club, go check out as many clubs as you can and if you find a club that you and your dog enjoy, then that is the right club. There are a bunch of great clubs in Florida (just like in GA) we have been to a few at trials and met some great long timers, so keep looking. You never know, that club that did the demo may be just right, and that one guy was just being a jerk. We find that the newer people tend to be more superior about the sport, especially if they themselves have a dog that isn't the greatest yet. Believe me, when I think about how I portrayed the sport 15 years ago and how I look at it now, I want to smack my ownself LOL.


 
I would pretty much fall into that category, haha! I've been researching breeders (among MANY other things) and looking into my next GSD to be more of a competitive, working dog. I love Alexandria with everything I have - I consider her my heart dog. And I would really love to do some competitions (especially now that she has her AKC PAL #) but it will definitely be more work since she never got the chance to be started at a younger age. It's a challenge I like. I don't expect her to EVER be in the 'big leagues', but I would love to do more local events. 

Man....I really wish you were in Central Florida! We need more people like you and your husband, and more facilities like the one you have (just took a peek at your site - should I move to Georgia? LOL). I will definitely have to come visit at some point!

I'll make sure the keep looking, too, for different clubs and organizations to become involved in that are engaging and understanding of the different levels of understanding of the sport.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

> the Schutzhund folks to have a right to be very proud people- I am amazed at the level their dogs are at. Just they lack some people skills. dooney was not the only one barking- she was just the only one near Rude Man- I was quieting her down when he spoke up, and no I don't feel his advice was correct- You have to really "yell" at her for her to know you mean business- um...no I don't. Yes sometimes I get stearn and will raise my voice to her- but he was indicating i should scream at her--i wonder what his schutzhund training methods were??, but his advice was unsolicited.


Honestly, you can be proud but the way some people talk down to others has nothing to do with being proud. It's being rude and arrogant and there are a lot of these folks out there that think you are not worthy just because you are not competing.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Alexandria610 said:


> Man....I really wish you were in Central Florida! We need more people like you and your husband, and more facilities like the one you have (just took a peek at your site - should I move to Georgia? LOL). I will definitely have to come visit at some point!
> 
> I'll make sure the keep looking, too, for different clubs and organizations to become involved in that are engaging and understanding of the different levels of understanding of the sport.


Ditto Lauren :thumbup:- I wish it was closer too!!


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

How far are you from Gainesville?
There's a Schutzhund club somewhere around here that I know at least one board member is involved with.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0th-21st-schutzhund-trial-gainesville-fl.html


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Alexandria, I have a friend in Florida who belongs to a club that is not as serious about competition. It's a great Schutzhund Club and she is really happy with it. It is in Florida. Let me find out where exactly she is training at. She is a really nice person, German as well. 

Also, don't disregard a club just because of one person. The Club itself could be a great Club. I'd still go and check it out.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Here's another thought on this...I'm not in a club. You don't have to be a member of a club to start training. If interested check around with the trainers in your area, even if they aren't involved in schutzhund they probably can hook you up with a trainer who is. 

Also, I know the guy was a jerk....but maybe give the club as a whole a chance? Every group of people will have a bad apple or two.

I will say, just to share my first impressions of a schutzhund group/people. I have noticed schutzhund people tend to be pretty darn serious when with/handling their dogs. So sometimes they may seem stand-offish but now that I'm getting involved I understand better why....it requires a lot of focus.





Dooney's Mom said:


> There are just no Schutzhund clubs in our area. From what I understand the best one we have is way over in Tampa, which is a 2 hour drive for me or longer.... The club Rude Jerk was from is closer, but well we all know I am not going to that guy. My breeder uses a place about an hour away, but another breeder/friend I know told me to stay away from that place, read up on it and I agree. So basically unless i want to drive 2 hours each way, I am screwed on doing that with her.
> 
> That is why all 3 of us were so excited to see them there, they lost 3 potential people though, it is really sad. The obedience/agility trainer I am going to be using come January also trains k9 cop dogs and was a trainer for the English royalty as well, he is also going to start up scent work classes, and I want to bring Dooney to them as well. I really like this guy as a trainer, he loves and understands shepherds and after just one class with him, Dooney is soooo much better.
> 
> Going to throw a bit of a brag in here..... Had Dooney on the 20 ft lead line in the back of my still under construction subdivision and there were some kids playing in the yard- I was able to put her in a sit/stay...walk away with my back to her to the end of the line and waited a few minutes before asking her to come. Then i worked on the down stay- she also did well with that. She has come a really long way in the matter of a month. getting her out to these events is helping A LOT


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I will say, just to share my first impressions of a schutzhund group/people. I have noticed schutzhund people tend to be pretty darn serious when with/handling their dogs. So sometimes they may seem stand-offish but now that I'm getting involved I understand better why....it requires a lot of focus.


Well said. That's what I was trying to spit out. Lol. This guy does seem a bit off though.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Oh defiantely he was off. The more I read about how he reacted to visitors/observers the more clearly evident he was a jerk. 

The defining factor is this was a demo for the public, not a training session or a competition. 

Teaching was the goal here, teaching people who are just curious or wanting to get a 'taste' of what the sport is about. In that case one must be ready to answer questions and be kind about it too.






GatorDog said:


> Well said. That's what I was trying to spit out. Lol. This guy does seem a bit off though.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Here's another thought on this...I'm not in a club. You don't have to be a member of a club to start training. If interested check around with the trainers in your area, even if they aren't involved in schutzhund they probably can hook you up with a trainer who is.
> 
> Also, I know the guy was a jerk....but maybe give the club as a whole a chance? Every group of people will have a bad apple or two.
> 
> I will say, just to share my first impressions of a schutzhund group/people. I have noticed schutzhund people tend to be pretty darn serious when with/handling their dogs. So sometimes they may seem stand-offish but now that I'm getting involved I understand better why....it requires a lot of focus.


Lauren and I are talking about going to the ones in our area and checking them all out for ourselves. Gainesville is also a 2 hour ride for me and even longer for Lauren....


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I hear ya.... I'm so fortunate my trainer is less then 5 miles away and we aren't a formal club but we do have a core group of regulars. 

Just be warned, like GatorDog and I have experienced...if you do get involved it can be addictive. 



Dooney's Mom said:


> Lauren and I are talking about going to the ones in our area and checking them all out for ourselves. Gainesville is also a 2 hour ride for me and even longer for Lauren....


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

bocron said:


> Either way, the point of a demo is to entertain and educate. Making the lay person see it as a beneficial sport and to hopefully get new people interested in the sport. Being a condescending jerk doesn't achieve either of these objectives, it sure didn't in the case of the OP who left the event with a bad taste in her mouth about what "Schutzhund people" were like.
> If someone came up to one of us at a demo and stated they were interested and were researching getting a dog to hopefully get involved in the sport we would be psyched!


EXACTLY! 

That is what shocked me the MOST! We didn't just show up during some high end competition and interrupt them during a trial...... They were doing a DEMO at a huge public *For fun* Dog event! 

I would have totally expected them to be excited that not only one, but THREE people were thrilled about them being there, wanted to learn, and had at least some knowledge of the sport (which compared to most in Orlando, that's a big difference!).


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

And that would indeed be understandable, if that were the case. But it was not. Dooney barked a total of three, _maybe_ four times, and within a few seconds of the initial bark emitted from the dog's throat, her owner was able to quiet her. It was after said barking and the owner's action of quieting her down that the rude man spoke. 


Alexandria, agreed , that is entirely different .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

TrickyShepherd said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> That is what shocked me the MOST! We didn't just show up during some high end competition and interrupt them during a trial...... They were doing a DEMO at a huge public *For fun* Dog event!
> 
> I would have totally expected them to be excited that not only one, but THREE people were thrilled about them being there, wanted to learn, and had at least some knowledge of the sport (which compared to most in Orlando, that's a big difference!).


In my experience traveling to other trials or events, I noticed that a lot of the people that were more abrasive were those who had been involved in the sport for decades. They were old school trainers and really weren't interested in educating new people on the sport. They were the type where if you didn't already know, then you're not worth teaching. 

I ended up traveling to 3 different club before deciding on the one that I've been with now for 2 years. I am relatively young for being invlolved in the sport, and Aiden is my fist _real_ GSD, so it was hard for me to find people to take us seriously. My club now was welcoming and helpful from the very beginning, and I came into the sport knowing close to nothing about training! I can imagine I asked some questions that seemed pretty dumb to them, but they handled it well. I really hope you can find something similar!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> And that would indeed be understandable, if that were the case. But it was not. Dooney barked a total of three, _maybe_ four times, and within a few seconds of the initial bark emitted from the dog's throat, her owner was able to quiet her. It was after said barking and the owner's action of quieting her down that the rude man spoke.
> 
> 
> Alexandria, agreed , that is entirely different .
> ...


To be honest, when mine see a sleeve or the action there is no way to quiet them down. If you go to a club in Germany it's not a quiet place. They are in their crates, in the car or in the trailer and there is a heck of a lot of barking going on, especially when they switch out the dogs. 

I do not expect a club, training field or a demonstration to be quiet not on the official training day. I remember when there were 10-20 trailers and cars parked all the way up the street and around the corner. Does anyone honestly believe that all these dogs were quiet?


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## Alexandria610 (Dec 2, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> To be honest, when mine see a sleeve or the action there is no way to quiet them down. If you go to a club in Germany it's not a quiet place. They are in their crates, in the car or in the trailer and there is a heck of a lot of barking going on, especially when they switch out the dogs.
> 
> I do not expect a club, training field or a demonstration to be quiet not on the official training day. I remember when there were 10-20 trailers and cars parked all the way up the street and around the corner. Does anyone honestly believe that all these dogs were quiet?


 
Well, and that was somewhat comical too - there were two or three more dogs of theirs in crates in the backs of trucks, and they had been barking up a storm for a good twenty minutes, even during the demonstrations. I found it almost ironic.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Dooney's Mom said:


> Lauren and I are talking about going to the ones in our area and checking them all out for ourselves. Gainesville is also a 2 hour ride for me and even longer for Lauren....


I used to drive about 90 minutes, one way, to go to the Schutzhund club I started with.

Distance should NOT be a factor in finding the *right* club.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> I used to drive about 90 minutes, one way, to go to the Schutzhund club I started with.
> 
> Distance should NOT be a factor in finding the *right* club.


But it is a factor. It is a financial factor. Paying the club fees, the dogs, the gas, possibly even your own gear is always a factor. Also if they train during the week and at a certain level training once a week doesn't cut it, and you've got to get up early in the morning to get to work, time is a factor as well.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Probably a stupid question but shouldn't the dogs be able to work WITH the distraction?


 Your question is NOT stupid and the answer is yes...they should have been thankful for the distraction ...and it sounds like the dog might have been interested in it


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> But it is a factor. It is a financial factor. Paying the club fees, the dogs, the gas, possibly even your own gear is always a factor. Also if they train during the week and at a certain level training once a week doesn't cut it, and you've got to get up early in the morning to get to work, time is a factor as well.



Agreed. 

As much as I don't mind driving and putting a lot of time into something (already have done so all my life with horses and riding, nothing new to me)..... I also can't make my life impossible. I believe the same opinion is shared by Lauren and Wendy. 

When you consider in all the costs of the sport, the dogs, events, and then add in gas, travel time, and wear & tear of vehicles....... somewhere there has to be a line of what's do-able and what's not. Between all that, there is, of course, life outside the sport.... work, family, and other things that need time.

I've looked into what I can and can't do when it comes to my dogs sports.... I know I can't go anywhere over an hour away (hr and a half at MOST if I had no choice and it was the perfect club), especially if I'd be there more then once a week (which with something so demanding on both dog and handler.... I'd want to be able to train at least 2-3 times a week). With my schedule and every other factor, it would just be impossible to do much more then that.

When a sport is your life (like riding was for me for many years), it's more understandable to give it 150% more.... but, when it's just for fun and for the sake of learning (which, is more of what we are looking at currently).... it has to be a bit more reasonable.

But, hey... to all those that can give it everything they have and go the distance for it.... More power to ya!! Nothing wrong with that either.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> But it is a factor. It is a financial factor. Paying the club fees, the dogs, the gas, possibly even your own gear is always a factor. Also if they train during the week and at a certain level training once a week doesn't cut it, and you've got to get up early in the morning to get to work, time is a factor as well.


ditto- 2 hours each way is a total of 4 hours- there is gas money, time, gear, cost of the clubs themselves. If this is what I bought my dog for and it is what I REALLY wanted to do with her as far as competition then MAYBE location would not be a factor. But if I just want to have some fun with my dog on the weekends and dabble in it- I am just not into driving 4 hours. 

My agility classes will be about 30-45 minutes away when we start that up at the first of the year.. that is really all I am willing to drive for a hobby that may or may not interest me.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

TrickyShepherd said:


> Agreed.
> 
> As much as I don't mind driving and putting a lot of time into something (already have done so all my life with horses and riding, nothing new to me)..... I also can't make my life impossible. I believe the same opinion is shared by Lauren and Wendy.
> 
> ...


It is a huge factor. There is a really nice Club in Albany. The one that held the Greg Doud Seminars. I love that club, I like the people. and I'm pretty sure it's the same club that has been talked about in this very same topic. But it's a four hour drive. I've done it three times and it's absolutely exhausting to get up early in the morning, drive those four hours, stay all day long and then have to drive it all the way back. 

Those weekends I've spent more than 300 dollars. It's the perfect Club for me. The right Club. That 25 percent of a paycheck. It's just not dooable and I had to stop doing it. 

The SAR team is an hour drive. The French Ring Club is an hour drive. Debbie Zappia is a two hour drive and that is as far as I can go so I sent an email how to proceed to join their Schutzhund Club mainly because I could take the RH via the United Schutzhund Club and the only place that can hold the RH is a Schutzhund Club. I really really want to take the RH with my dogs even nobody in this area trains it. 

It's financially, physically and mentally exhausting to do all that drive. It's time that you won't get back and sometimes you drive for hours, stay for one and then drive those two hours back, hoping to get something out of it.


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