# The vaccination controversy



## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

So... I used to bring my dogs in yearly for vaccinations. Their last time in was June last year. 
I've been reading a lot about how some of the vaccines actually last many years and some a lifetime and redoing them is not only pointless, but potentially harmful. For example I've learned that Rabies can last 3 years depending on which vaccine they had, Distemper works for 5 -7 yrs, kennel cough for 7 yrs, Parvo for 7 years, etc. Some studies indicate the immunity to most of these diseases lasts a lifetime.
I've been procrastinating the yearly visit as I'm not sure what to make of all the conflicting information I have read. 
If anyone wants to drop in and comment pro or con vaccinations I'd appreciate your input.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Because I do occasionally board my dogs I have to be current on vet recommended vaccines. But I go to a Vet that does 3 year vaccines on the Distemper/Parvo and Rabies. So I only get my dogs vaccinated every 3 years and still have the Vet paperwork that indicates that nothing else is necessary. 

I get the injected not intranasal bordatella if required...although I prefer to avoid it if I can. 

I think minimal vaccines is the way to go.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Because I am afraid of parvo and distemper, I go ahead and do them every three years, after the booster at 12 months past the last set of puppy shots. 

So Joy is 12 months, she had her last set of shots and rabies at about 5 months, so in another five months she will get shots again. 

Milla and Ninja will be two in a few days, they will not get any shots this year. 

Heidi, Whitney and Tori will be four on the 19th, they will get Rabies, distemper and Parvo at Christmas time. 

Babs and Jenna will be five and had all theirs done last December. 

The only one who is not up to date is Cujo who is my parents' dog, he has siezures, so I am really worried about any vaccines. Rabies lasts 5-7 years supposedly. I figure if we do rabies only on him next december -- should have had it last december, he will probably not need another one ever. 

I know that if the dog is not UTD on rabies, if he bites someone, it could be an issue. Generally if the dog has never had a rabies, they may euth and send the head to be tested. If they are just late on the vaccine, they quarantine the dog, and require the dog to get the booster. Usually the quarantine is in the owner's home.


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

I think so too. I avoid messing around with my immune system and my daughter has only the really important vacs. Those I only did reluctantly because we travel and I didn't want her to get exposed to something in India or Thailand or wherever. 
I'm going to dig around to find the dog's last vac records and see which vaccines they got in June. I think I'll just do the hw test, fecal test and call it done.


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

Wow Selzer, your vet schedule has my head spinning! 
Jiva wasn't a year yet last June, so I think I might have missed her year booster. Oops. So maybe she should get done and I'll leave Coko out for now. 
Aside from the vacs, I have another question. If I mix both dogs poo together can I submit 1 fecal sample for both? If 1 dog had something, I'd probably treat both anyway. It makes sense to me to just combine the sample.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Stark had his puppy vaccines and his rabies. This year when it was time to re-vaccinate, I opted to do the 3 year rabies and for-go the boosters. 

I didn't titer this year either, mostly because they are asking $300-$500 in this area for 1 titer test.... yes, I know... ridiculous!

I will titer every 3 years when his rabie vaccine is due.

He is never boarded and only interacts with dogs I know (all of whom are vaccinated yearly), he is fed a raw diet, is active and healthy. I don't believe he needs to be injected every year when the vaccines he has already had will remain in his system for years already...


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Just have titers done and you'll have nothing to worry about. If boosters are needed, boost. If not, you're good to go.


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

Excuse my ignorance on the issue... do the titers show level of antibodies to the diseases indicating they're still useful? If so, would you wait until the titers show a drop in immunity before revaccinating?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

The Hooligans get their vaccinations every 3 years (but I space the rabies apart from the others).

I've had one dog test positive for worms and not the others BUT I worm everyone to be on the safe side.


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## Trina (Sep 11, 2009)

Doggydog, like you, I am re-thinking this whole annual vaccination thing based on what I've read around here and other online sources. There was an article that addressed it in this month's Whole Dog Journal, too.

My 12 1/2 yo mixed breed is due for her "shots" and I've scheduled an appt for this Friday, but I've already warned them that when I come in, I want to discuss the necessity of vaccinating her. Unless my vet has some compelling argument to the contrary, I do not plan on having her vaccinated for distemper (her rabies isn't due until next summer, and that's only done every 3 years anyway, not to mention its required by law.)


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

Trina said:


> My 12 1/2 yo mixed breed is due for her "shots" and I've scheduled an appt for this Friday, but I've already warned them that when I come in, I want to discuss the necessity of vaccinating her.


I would be very reluctant (means: would not!lol) in vaccinating a dog of that age for anything. IMO the dangers far outweigh any benefits at that point. If you decide you choose not too, inquire about laws (you should be able to access the legislation by internet) pertaining to a veterinarian letter indicating the dog is unable to be vaccinated due to health concerns. It is something available in Ontario, don't know about your area. If you can do it, want to do it and the vet won't, call around till you find one who will! My dog has received his boosters and the likelihood is that those will be the last, despite the fact rabies is required by law; but I guess I will cross that bridge later!!!....titer for all others. My annual visit to the vet is for a CBC so I can track his blood scores; that crap about dragging you in for annual vaccinations is nothing but a cash cow for vets and detrimental to the health of the animal.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with above. More and more, vets want to see senior dogs 2x's a year so they can monitor their health. The annual reminder card is just a way the vet can get the client in. The Whole Dog Journal has a great article on vax/vet visits, worth the subscription price:
Whole Dog Journal - August 2010


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## Trina (Sep 11, 2009)

Gib Laut:

My regular vet wasn't in, but I declined the distemper vaccination anyway. In Virginia, the only one required by law is rabies. But afterward, I realized that if I have to board her, her records will show her shots not being up to date. It's highly unlikely that I will need to board her, but you never know. So I will follow up on a letter like you suggested.

Onyx, I subscribe to Whole Dog Journal and read that article. There was an article that touched on the same subject in Cesar's Way this month, too. In addition to various other mostly online sources (like the vet's column at Dogster), I already had second thoughts on automatically vaccinating my dogs every year.

Thanks for the replies.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

Gib Laut said:


> My dog has received his boosters and the likelihood is that those will be the last, despite the fact rabies is required by law; but I guess I will cross that bridge later!!!....titer for all others.


Gib Laut, have you found an inexpensive source for getting titres done in Ontario? As Elizabeth mentioned and I have also been told by my vet, titres generally run $300 + here, nowhere near as reasonable as the US. I cynically wonder if the prices are kept high so that people will say, "Oh well, may as well get the shots, they cost less."


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

Quinnsmom said:


> Gib Laut, have you found an inexpensive source for getting titres done in Ontario? As Elizabeth mentioned and I have also been told by my vet, titres generally run $300 + here, nowhere near as reasonable as the US. I cynically wonder if the prices are kept high so that people will say, "Oh well, may as well get the shots, they cost less."


I will have to double check, but my recollection is that the cost was closer to $150-200 for the rabies titer; parvo/distempter was under $100 and that was being sent to the U.S. So, if the $300 was for all, the would be what I have found. I was told that due to the caution required when dealing with rabies, there are limited labs in N.A that do the test; hence the price. And, I think you are absolutely right on with your "cynical" idea!!!!lol

_Trina: I realized that if I have to board her, her records will show her shots not being up to date. It's highly unlikely that I will need to board her, but you never know. So I will follow up on a letter like you suggested._

You indicated rabies isn't due until next summer. Your vaccination certificate will indicate the dog was given a three vaccine and that she is considered up to date, if you require proof. My parents go through this with a park they vacation at who requires proof of up to date rabies vaccine. If the certificate isn't clear, your vet can issue a clarification letter; though won't help with parv/dis if that is required where you would board. You could consider someone who boards in their home if the situation arose. They have the ability to be more understanding.


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## Trina (Sep 11, 2009)

Gib Laut said:


> _Trina: I realized that if I have to board her, her records will show her shots not being up to date. It's highly unlikely that I will need to board her, but you never know. So I will follow up on a letter like you suggested._
> 
> You indicated rabies isn't due until next summer. Your vaccination certificate will indicate the dog was given a three vaccine and that she is considered up to date, if you require proof.


I'll have to double check her rabies certificate, but if memory serves it only mentions specifically the rabies vaccine. Currently, whenever my husband and I both go out of town, either my mom or my sister stay at our home with our dogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Doggydog said:


> So... I used to bring my dogs in yearly for vaccinations. Their last time in was June last year.
> I've been reading a lot about how some of the vaccines actually last many years and some a lifetime and redoing them is not only pointless, but potentially harmful. For example I've learned that Rabies can last 3 years depending on which vaccine they had, Distemper works for 5 -7 yrs, kennel cough for 7 yrs, Parvo for 7 years, etc. Some studies indicate the immunity to most of these diseases lasts a lifetime.
> I've been procrastinating the yearly visit as I'm not sure what to make of all the conflicting information I have read.
> If anyone wants to drop in and comment pro or con vaccinations I'd appreciate your input.


You still need the yearly visit, do a HW test and a fecal.

However, the AAHA has recommended the base shots every 3 years since 2003. Rabies, unless your dog has had a reaction, is not an option. It must be what the law says.


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

OP: your state has a clause for the exemption of rabies vaccination based on underlying medical conditions, you can speak to your vet about why kind of conditions the state generally accepts. An immune compromised dog for example (which occurs for a variety of reasons) would, IMO, pose a serious health issue if vaccinated at age 12. Just an idea for you. Laws are created in shades of gray for a reason!


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## Doggydog (May 12, 2009)

Good to know. Thanks.


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## Daydreamer (Jan 25, 2010)

Can a titer be done for the rabies? My Ellie will be due for her booster in a couple of months and i am already fretting about this. I have already decided not to vaccinate my 12 yo JRT anymore and don't think i am going to vaccinate my other dogs for anything but rabies (though i am still on the fence about the rabies). I have read too many bad things about vaccines lately.


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## Uniballer (Mar 12, 2002)

AFAIK, Dr. Dodds is still one of the people in the front of the scientific part of this debate. I went to a seminar she gave a few years ago. Smart lady.

Changing Vaccine Protocols

Minimal Vaccine Use for Dogs


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i keep my dog current on his
vaccinations. my dog
is around a lot of dogs, farms,
city visits, people, etc.

i feel safer with my dog having his shots.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Daydreamer said:


> Can a titer be done for the rabies? My Ellie will be due for her booster in a couple of months and i am already fretting about this. I have already decided not to vaccinate my 12 yo JRT anymore and don't think i am going to vaccinate my other dogs for anything but rabies (though i am still on the fence about the rabies). I have read too many bad things about vaccines lately.


yes, a titer can be done for rabies - through Dodds is the cheapest way. However, most states will not accept a titer in lieu of vaccination, you have to check your local laws on that.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Both of my dogs are up to dat with their shots. My mom is kind of paranoid, but its for the best.lol. We just like to keep our dogs safe and healthy


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Both of my dogs are up to dat with their shots. My mom is kind of paranoid, but its for the best.lol. We just like to keep our dogs safe and healthy


I think research has shown that re-vaccinating is not always for the best.

By law you must have your dog up to date on their rabies, but the others are not mandatory (depending on where you are and where you go) so researching and seeing what is best (health wise) is wise.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I think research has shown that re-vaccinating is not always for the best.
> 
> By law you must have your dog up to date on their rabies, but the others are not mandatory (depending on where you are and where you go) so researching and seeing what is best (health wise) is wise.


Well we have the mandatory ones like Rabies(we have racoons and possums). Should have put that.:blush:

Sadly my friend does not.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jessiewessie, Rabies is the only vaccination you have to give by law. All the others are preventative and most dogs will build up immunity after the first set of puppy shots, If you go to Dr. Dodds site and read up, you'll see that sometimes vaccines do more harm than good:
HEMOPET.HTM

Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol 2009
I linked these two(current) as Uniballer must have clicked on the older information for the link s/he provided.


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## Tehillah (Jun 21, 2010)

Yes you can get a rabies titer. Veternarians used to all get vaccinated for rabies as they figure they are at higher risk for getting it than the general population . They only get vaccinated once for it . After that they get titered. They don't get booster vaccinations for it!!!neither should our dogs! The vaccination lasts a lifetime, however when they were doing studies on how long it's lasts they ran out of money. at that point they had proof the vaccine lasted 3 years so that is what they go by. it is very expensive to do studies on vaccinations; dewormers and so on, so the usually don't do them. 

The only required vaccine is rabies. The rest are optional although this is not what most vets will lead you to believe. There is a lot of pressure to do yearly vaccinations because it is a HUGE money maker! The U.S. Veternarian society has put out a new protocal that states vaccines need only be done every 3 Years. Many vets were upset by this as it is huge money to them. Many openly said they would not follow this new protocal unless they were forced to. 

I have a litter of puppies right now and one of them is going to a veternarian in the U.S. He specifically chose me as it was very important to him to get a puppy that is raw fed and has no vaccines! Word is getting out about the whole vaccine issues and thankfully people are becoming better informed about them and the dangers of them. Inunderstand that vaccines have their "place" but I also understand they have been so abused. There are risks to not vaccinating but there are also risks to vaccinating!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

*vaccines*

I went from being a fanatic on one side (VACCINATE!) to a fanatic on the other.

The Late Barker Sisters stopped all but rabies vacinations at 3 yo & 6 yo. They got rabies shots for two years after that. They died at 12 & 15 yo and not of communicable diseases that the vaccines would have covered. My dogs traveled with me - thousands of miles. They went to dog shows. They went running out in the country. If anything, their immune systems were probably stronger for being exposed to stuff rather than cloistered at home. Unless there is something new out there that the dogs haven't built immunity to, repeated vaccinations are pretty darned questionable. Some of us lay people and most of the vets remember the stories of way back when distemper and rabies were common killers of dogs. Many of us (I am not the only geezer on the block!) remember when Parvo was taking dogs down right and left.

I do puppy shots. (especially parvo and distemper and rabies) When my vet gets in the three year rabies (its new in Arkansas) I will get that which will cover our next three years here. 

Vaccines aren't a panacea. They can be life-savers and I do believe that a dog needs the initial shots. After that -- I even think bordatella is a waste of money and time.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I do the 3-year rabies because it's required by law, and bordetella because it's required for a lot of the places we go (like training classes.) I do titer testing for the rest if it's an adult dog. I go to a lot of dog places, classes, animal assisted therapy, etc where they require vaccinations but they mostly accept titer testing as an alternative.


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