# Help Needed with Pregnant Mom Puppies, Savannah, GA.



## Kiowa

Hi Everyone! I'm a new GSD owner in the Savannah area. I just adopted Kai (short for Kiowa) from the county animal control shelter a little over a month ago. She was only 60 lbs when I took her to get her shots and the vet thought she was around 2 years-old. Once she got comfortable in her new home and with my old mutt (Spud, 12 yr-old basset-pitt mix) she taught me she had some separation anxiety issues and was generally just miss-behaved. We've come a long, LONG way in the last month and she is now a great dog whose intelligence amazes me almost everyday. 

Here's the wrench in the gears, and what I'm seeking help with here in this forum... She's going to have puppies in about 10 days. She showed no signs of being pregnant until 2 days ago when her attitude changed a little and she started producing milk. The vet told me today that she must have been bred prior to my adopting her with how far along she is. What do I do now? I've never had a littler before because I've always adopted adult dogs. What do I do with the 8 to 10 pups that the vet told me she's carrying? Does anyone know a local shepherd rescue that would be willing to help? How do I tell if, on the very odd chance, they're purebred? The county pound I adopted her from said they'd try to help place the pups, but I don't have much faith in that institution. I've started her on puppy chow today and picked up some calcium pills from the vet for her. Is there anything else I should be doing to make sure my Kai stays healthy through this? How do I know when she's going into labor?

Also, I have attached some photos of Kai. I will do wormer and 1st shots and am willing and able to transport the pups to a rescue/home with in 300 to 400 miles of Savannah. Thank you and any advice will be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you in advance- Lori, Kai and Spud.


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## DJEtzel

Very cute girl. I don't have a lot of advice, other than the food. When you say puppy chow, do you mean purina puppy chow? If so, I'd switch her to something like Orijen large breed puppy food, purina is not a good food for adults or puppies.


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## Kiowa

It's a brand called Authority that was recommended by a Petsmart employee. I also give my dogs 1/2 cup of that frozen food, Bil-Jack, with their breakfast. I tried it once because it was on sale and they love it, so I've kept it in their diets. Is that ok stuff? 

Thank you for your advice, Lori


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## DJEtzel

Authority isn't great.. it's petsmart's brand, so they'd push it. I don't know a lot about bil-jack, but I've always regarded it as no good. Maybe someone else can comment on that. 

A good food to feed would be Orijen large breed puppy food, or Solid Gold Wolf Cub. 
They're both great for large breed dogs, and I don't know of many other foods that are good for them. 

A good adult dog food would be Taste of the Wild, Orijen, Evo, Innova, Blue Buffalo or Wellness, once she's had her pups.


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## GSDSunshine

Also. I was supposed to foster a preggo dog and read up on it. One thing the vet said definitely not to do was to supplement calcium the last weeks of pregnancy, it can be harmful to the mother. I'm sure someone else could explain why better than I can.


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## Jessiewessie99

Cute doggies!! Can I e-hug them?lol


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## ChristenHolden

OMG she's a beauty congrats on the find. Good luck with the pups.


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## CandySkyer

OMG, shes such a stunner. I would so take a pup if i was closer!!!!!


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## Lilie

Very pretty girl! Has she started attempting to 'nest' yet? Has she started hiding under the bed, or making a bed out of any clothing on the floor? Some bitches who are close to labor will do that. I'm not a breeder though, maybe someone could step in. 

Good luck with the pups! She is a beautiful dog!

Also - Welcome to the forum!


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## jxcordova

my gs dusty gave birth 4 weeks ago, so i know that when you see black discharge in her bed or floor, she will be giving birth shortly after.


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## Kiowa

jxcordova,
Thank you for the advice. I will be watching for that. Also, I have the calcium pills but I won't be starting her on them until after she has the pups. She has started being lethargic today and she discharges milk on the floor sometimes. No nesting as of yet, but I haven't set her crate up for her. I'm planning on making her a spot this evening and I hope she accepts it, rather than in the closet or under the piano. Should I get an instant read thermometer? The vet said that her temp will drop to about 98 the day she's supposed to give birth. I was also told to start feeding her eggs. Eggs? Really? 
Thanks to everyone for your help and if anyone knows of a rescue group, that would be just awesome. -Lori


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## GSDSunshine

Eggs are a great source of protein and energy. So your vet was right on feeding her eggs, or at least 'an egg'. 

I would not give her a crate for her "nest." You want something with rounded sides, or a 'pig rail'. these thing will help prevent her from rolling over and suffocating them. 

Do you have a plastic kiddie pool? Do you know anyone that is handy with tools/wood? They could create a whelping box. 

In themometer is a good idea. If you think she is comfortable with you doing it, I would take her temperature 2x a day starting now (so you get a good baseline). once you notice a drop in body temp, she will most likely have them within 24 hours.

Also, get a small container to vanilla yogurt (regular, not light or sugar free, the fatty stuff). When she starts going into labor, give her a spoonful. The calcium will help stimulate contractions and the sugar and fat will provide energy. You will also give her one after every pup, so ice cream....pup. ice cream....pup etc.


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## selzer

It is very nice of you to go through the whelping with your new girl. She looks awesome. She does not look under nourished at this point, but I cannot feel her. 

I agree with GSDSunshine's post, whelping box, yogurt, eggs. 

And I am glad that your vet told you to wait on the calcium until after she has the pups. There is something that bitches get caused by a calcium deficiency, their leggs stiffen and they cannot walk and it is life threatening. It happens when the pups are sucking her dry. It can be worse if you supplement calcium early on because then the body stops trying to produce what it should. Once the pups are whelped give the vitamin until the pups are weaned. 

Eggs are good, you can hard boil a dozen and a half and give her one each morning. I would because you got her from a pound and you cannot be sure what kind of nutrician she had prior. 

If you go from puppy chow to orijen, you may just kill her -- just kidding, they are worlds apart, but if your bitch is doing ok on the puppy chow, I would not change foods so close to whelping. Why stress her out like that? Once she has these puppies and you place them in their new homes, you can worry about higher quality, hier priced food. 

If you give her the puppy chow and supplement it with an egg, and about two tablespoons of yogurt, and maybe a can of chicken, she will do fine and so will the puppies. 

Keep the questions coming. There is plenty to tell.

Get a kitchen scale for weighing the pups. JB wholesale has one in whelping supplies but it costs like 69$. I think you may be able to get one from walmart for cheaper. I have not priced one recently. 

You will want to weigh the pups twice a day. The first day or two they will lose weight, but then they should gain and continue to gain weight. If you have more than two days in a row where they lose weight, you may have to supplement. 

If you must supplement, have on hand some milk replacer for puppies. Do not use cow's milk. Pups will get runny stool and you can lose them. Chances are this will not be an issue. 

At four weeks, six weeks, and eight weeks, worming is necessary. But that is a ways off. 

Get newspapers, lots of them. And hit everyone you know up for old towels, you will want a stack of clean towels to wipe the puppies dry with. 

A book about whelping would be a good idea at this point. 

Mostly be there to support your bitch. Try to remove any stress you can. And set up the area where she is to whelp. Near an entryway, but secure, warm, and draft free. 

Good luck.


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## RubyTuesday

_"It can be worse if you supplement calcium early on because then the body stops trying to produce what it should."_

Selzer, can you explain this for me. The body doesn't actually produce any calcium. It's either acquired through diet, including dietary supplements, or leached from the body's stores (most commonly from the bones).


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## Doc

Hopefully you have increased the amount of food you are feeding. After whelpinig, you'll need to keep plenty of water and food available for mom! Some experts say to increase her food by 50% while nursing.


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## julies'omom

You won't nedessaryily see a black discharge. However in all probability you will see her very restless and perhaps nesting. She may even have a pup standing up...especially if she has not given birth before. Enjoy!!!

julies'omom


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## julies'omom

oh and I am not a new member. I have been a member for several years. But when the formatt changed I couldn't get in using my own info.!

julies'omom
Annie-toy poodle
Brandi mini poo
Julie Von Kolenda


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## Chris Wild

This Leerburg video does have a lot of great information on it about whelping and raising puppies and could be very helpful since you've never done this before:

Leerburg | Whelping Puppies DVD

The biggest things to be aware of are the signs of impending whelp: temp drop, restless behavior, nesting, not wanting to eat, and discharge from the vulva (though it typically won't be black).

And most importantly, the signs that the bitch is in distress and a fast trip to the vet is in order. If she is straining, severely uncomfortable and having active contractions but nothing is happening, there may be a stuck puppy. This can not only endanger the lives of the pups, but also the life of the mother and a c-section may be required.

If she is comfortable and not in distress, watch her but don't be too worried. There can be a wait of several hours between one birth and the next, and no reason to be overly concerned if the dam is comfortable. Pups are very often born a couple quickly within a few minutes of one another (one from each uterine horn), and then a long wait in between pairs.

If it's been more than a few hours between pups and contractions are light and few, and you know there are more in there, get her up and walk her around. Exercise will often get contractions started again. Have some vanilla ice cream on hand as well. Give her a couple snacks of it througout whelping, especially if there is a long wait in between pups. The calories will help keep her energy up and the calcium boost can also help get contractions going again, as one common cause of weak, ineffective labor is low levels of calcium.

Hopefully you can have a vet on call to answer your questions should something come up during whelping, though of course you'd need to set that up with him ahead of time.

Have some syptic powder, waxed dental floss and a set of foreceps handy. If an umbilical cord is cut too short or too quickly, it can bleed severely. Clamp it with the foreceps right next to the belly, tie it off tightly with a the dental floss right above the foreceps and leave that on for a while, and apply syptic powder to help stop the bleeding.

A bulb syringe to help clear the nose and throat of birthing fluids when the pups are born is handy too. Rubbing them vigorously with a towel will stimulate circulation and get them active and breathing.

Let them nurse as soon as they are willing to after birth. They need the food and the colostrum in the milk, and nursing pups also stimulates a release of hormones that keeps contractions and labor going.

Make sure to keep the area warm for whelping and a few weeks after. Newborn pups cannot regulate their body temperature and get cold easily, and when cold they cannot eat and digest milk so they can dehydrate and starve quickly. What constitutes warm enough for any given litter seems to vary. I've had litters that wanted the box at 90 and others that preferred 75. Watch the pups. Quiet pups sleeping in a loose pile are happy, healthy pups. Loud pups clamoring all over one another in a tight pile are too cold. Pups spread out all over the place are too warm. So let the pups tell you what temperature works best for them.

Hopefully things will go smoothly with no problems. Usually it does. But do what you can to research the signs of whelping problems to make sure you recognize the signs of danger and can get a vet involved if needed.


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## GSDSunshine

The condition is called eclampsia. Not the same as in humans. It comes from having a very low blood calcium. It is especially dangerous with large litters because the bitch will be losing more of her calcium to milk production. Those buggers eat a ton.


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## Myamom

Sent you a pm kiowa


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## Kiowa

Thank you Chris Wild and Selzer! I think I'm more nervous than Kai is. I got a kiddie pool and set it up with blankies and towels and have a heating pad ready to put under it if needed. I picked up some vanilla ice cream and yogurt. I'll hard boil some eggs now, I should've thought of that... Both my dogs got bacon and fried eggs for breakfast this morning! 
I doubled the amount of food I'm giving her to 6 cups spread out through the day. I had been feeding her more than I normally would to try get her to gain weight because she was only 60lbs when I adopted her, which makes me worry for the health of the puppies with her in such a state of malnutrition for the 1st part of her pregnancy. Just today she has started eating less, not finishing all her food at once, and I wonder if I'm feeding her too much or she's getting close? 
I will call my vet and see if she will be kind enough to give me her home phone number incase there are problems. Since I was lucky enough to adopt a pregnant dog, I'm sure I'll be lucky enough for her to go into labor about 2 am!
Thank you to everyone for your help and advice. It is much needed and appreciated! -Lori


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## elisabeth_00117

I am no help when it comes to the advice you need and are looking for but.. I wish you luck.

This girl is lucky to have found a home as wonderful as yours.


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## kshort

Lori - I am so grateful that you are the one who adopted Kai... Great job you're doing getting prepared and you're getting excellent advice from the experienced members!

Will anxiously look for updates and hope that everything goes smoothly for you, Kai and the pups!


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## Chris Wild

elisabeth_00117 said:


> This girl is lucky to have found a home as wonderful as yours.


Most definitely! Many, many people would have reacted very differently to finding out a dog they recently adopted was pregnant. She is lucky indeed that she landed in such a loving home committed to doing the best for her and her babies.

Keep us posted, ask any questions you want, and don't forget we'll want to see photos in a few days.


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## The Judge

Good luck and post some pics of puppy's


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## allieg

Wow I guess I won't complain about buying a pregnant hamster once...Boy was that a surprise when I went to feed her that morning..
Good Luck and keep us updated.She is a beauty,can't wait to see what the pups look like.It's going to be like Christmas when she has them..Let's hope she doesn't have a lot of presents.


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## RubyTuesday

_Wow I guess I won't complain about buying a pregnant hamster once..."_

This sparked some memories! MyDot's grandma got her a pet mouse once that promptly delivered 4 pups. She later got her a pet rat & was assured it was a 'young sexually immature female.' 
That very night...
MyDot, "Grandma the belly is big. I think she's pregnant."
Her G'ma, "Don't be silly. They PROMISED me she's a young sexually immature female. It's impossible."
MyDot, "But Grandma the belly is soooo big. There must be babies in there. Just look..."
Her G'ma, *sniff*"Wishful thinking m'girl. There ARE no babies in there."
MyDot, "But Grandma it's HUGE. It's even moving. I know she's got babies in there."
Her Gma, "Pffft. Nonsense. Now stop that silliness & come eat."
A day later
MyDot, "Grandma, there's too many babies to count. WoW! So many adorable rat babies." (There were 17)

Kiowa, I love your attitude. Lucky Kai to have been given you!


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## GSDElsa

:thumbup:

Wohoo! Glad you are getting some help on this issue. I felt so bad for you last night when I read your intro post! 

Get those bebes born and hopefully a rescue will get rooted out to help out! Everyone is a sucker for the little ones.


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## Cardinal Von Crossbones

Best of luck! Dogs have been having puppies longer than people have been helping out, and there's a ton of people with fingers crossed that everything goes well. One thing's for sure, things could be a lot worse for mama and babies, Kai is truly blessed to have found someone with such a big heart!

Can't wait to see the babies! She's beautiful, I can only imagine how adorable they'll be! :hugs:


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## selzer

Yes, it is eclampsia. Whether the body is producing it or sucking it out of foods, I have understood that it can be worse when you give it to them during the pregnancy. Then it ends up being low during lactation. 

I always wait until the pups start coming and then I will give the vitamin and yogurt. So far, I have not had any problems with it. 

This is a special case as the bitch seemed undernourished when you got her. She is probably just fine and the pups too. It does not take a lot of food until the last trimester when they grow like weeds -- the last three weeks. 

Another thing to bite your nails over. I do not know how your vet determined when she will whelp. Mine never produce milk before puppies, but I am not saying it is abnormal. My guess is that the vet has taken her temperature, considered her symptoms and looked at her size and made a guestimate of the delivery time. 

Did he x-ray for a count? Did he palpate? In my litter's x-ray, I noticed that rib cages were well-defined, so I thought that she may go early, and she did. Other litters that I have had a more difficult time counting sculls and just spines took longer. Never heard anyone use this as a marker though. It could be I happened to get a clear picture when she was a little early. 

The reason I brought this up is that as he has no idea when she ovulated, I do not know if there is a set in stone way to figure out when she is likley to whelp. Some bitches are as large as yours is weeks before, others wait until the last week to show. It is really hard to be certain of the date if you did not do progesterone testing and have her breeding dates -- 63 days from ovulation. However, with an x-ray, you can get an idea by when bone is formed. 

So. Her backing down on the food MAY be a sign that whelping is coming SOON. Lots of bitches lose their appetite near whelping. 

And she may be feeling full and a little sick and just not wanting to eat so much. This is why I mix kibble with some cooked chicken cans. I use evangers. Mixing in a little yogurt might spur the appetite as well. 

Keep track of her temp if you can. You are looking for a change in temperature moreso than an exact number. The temp will drop and stay dropped for several hours. It will then rise again before the puppies are actually born. But usually when it drops three degrees or so, she will whelp within 24 hours. 

Often they will start nesting, sometimes a few days before, sometimes the day of. 

This last litter, I saw a little spot of wetness in the whelping box on my way out the door to go babysit, and sat and watched her for a few moments, wondering if she was actually going into labor. Two days early from my calculations. She then turned around, tore at the papers and started straining. I called my sister to let her know I wasn't coming and called the emergency vet to let them know I might need assistance -- good to make contact just in case. Actually I waited 1.5 hours before calling the e-vet. They say not to let her go in active labor for more than 2 hours without a puppy because you may have one stuck. 

We had our first puppy about 2.5 hours in. Every thing went fine after that. 

I was sitting there thumbing through my book biting my nails, with the e-vet two hours away, wondering if I should pack her up and take her. 

Shepherds generally are good whelpers and good mothers. We must remain calm -- that is the number one thing you can do for your bitch. If you are nervous, she will be more stressed. It is amazing how they know what to do. 

If she does not tear open the sack and lick the puppy dry and move it around rather vigorously until it cries and is breathing good, without stressing her, use a small towel or wash rag and rub the puppy until it is wriggling and making noises. She will be nosey and put it down to nurse on her. When she starts circling to have another pup, you might move the pup out of the way and keep it warm and dry. I keep a small lined box for this purpose. 

Stay away from heating bads. you can roast a pup with them. If it is cold and you do put a pad under some towels. be sure it is only in part of the box and the puppy can move to a cooler spot if it wants. Puppies' nervous system is not complete at birth, but they feel warm and cold and will move to where they are comfortable. 

As soon as she has the second puppy, if she is cleaning it, let her be, if not, put the other pup in with her and work on the new one to get it going. 

If you have trouble getting one to breath, make sure the longs are clear. The books describe a shake down. I do not want to attempt describing that here. But you can use the ear cleaner bulb to suck out fluid from the nose and mouth area. And rub the pup dry. 

Sometimes, one does not make it. It is sad. Try not to dwell overmuch on it, and remove it from the dam when her attention is on a live puppy. Again, keep calm and do not let her see your disappointment. Keep her attention focused on the live puppies.


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## GranvilleGSD

This is a nice site with lots of information about all the different stages of pregnancy, labor, and puppy development. Breeding, Whelping, and Rearing Puppies

Glad you got her a kiddie pool, that works well and is easy to clean. Save all the newspapers and towels that you can, you're gonna need A LOT of them! Oh yeah, you'll use a lot of laundry detergent too!

While there are better foods out there Purina Puppy Chow is a fine food, and if that is what she is used to I wouldn't go changing things up. She's already had a rough few months, getting pregnant, getting a new home, etc. Purina has been around for years and has high levels of quality control and they do a lot of research. It is a proven food. Authority is an alright food too. My old cat had chicken allergies and Authority was the only food I could find that made a no-chicken formula. Yeah, I read every cat food label in the store! Not all dogs do well on "super premium" foods like Origen and not everybody can spend gazillions of dollars on dog food every month.

Very important that I don't think I saw mentioned here (although I just skimmed the longer posts) is to try to keep stress levels down. Place her whelping box in a quiet area where she can have some privacy. Since you are new to her, she may show aggression once the pups are born, and if she's stressed, she may try to kill her pups. It's awful, but it can happen.

Good luck with the pups, glad she has a safe place to have them.


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## Kiowa

Thank you again for more much needed advice. I've been googling and reading up on sites that seemed reputable and everything sounds similar to the advice here. I had wondered whether she would get aggressive over her pups and even if she'll let me help since I have only had her a month. I'll just have to wait and find out on that one.

I did have her x-rayed and there's 8 to 10 pups. 8 for sure, but there were a couple that looked stacked up sort of. When I saw it I thought I counted 9. The heads and spines showed up very clear, but that's all, no ribs on the x-ray. The vet thought she was anywhere from 50 to 55 days in at that point, depending on what she's bred with, but she couldn't be certain because I have no idea who, when and where... 

Her appetite came back last evening and she acted like she was starving so I let her eat as much as she wanted, which was 3 cups of Authority puppy food, a left over chicken breast from dinner, an egg and another cup of puppy food. Should I ration her food better or just keep feeding her till she's full? 

I will try to upgrade her food later and see how she takes it. My other dog, Spud, is a very picky eater and will only consistently eat Kibbles-n-Bits from Wal-Mart, which I know if like McDonalds for dogs, but it's all he likes and he's 12 and set in his ways so I indulge him on this issue. Kai doesn't like it and won't touch it. 

Thank you again and I will keep posting on her progress. She is huge right now and is producing milk like mad, but she wants to go on her walk right now, isn't nesting yet and ate her breakfast. I don't think today. The longer she goes the more worried I get that the pups will be too big and she'll have troubles. On the x-ray, they were already about 7 inches of spine and head and that was on Tuesday morning. Thanks again, Lori, Kai & Spud.


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## LaRen616

Holy Cow!! 8-10 puppies!!! My goodness!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I haven't read through, but will you need help in screening homes for placement? 

I can't imagine that kind of surprise!


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## GSDElsa

^^^Jean, she'd like to find a reputable rescue to place them......

Originally she put this in non-urget. Looks like it got moved? Maybe after the puppies are born, it can go back to that section? Or, a new thread started again.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Thanks, I was being lazy! I will send this to a GA contact. 

Yeah, I got a notification on it and moved it but will definitely move it back or start a new if needed.


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## Myamom

Jean...I pm'd her with rescue info and am working on getting her help with this


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## HeidiW

Your getting wonderful advise and please keep us posted and thanks for not giving up!


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## GSDSunshine

For her feeding regimen, she has alot of little pups pushing against, well everything in her body right now, so her stomach shouldn't able to hold that much (although it sounds like she stuffed herself earlier. lol). So if you were feeding her say 6 c. a day. Try giving her 4 small meals of 1 1/2 cups. Or even better (6) 1 cup feedings. That way her stomach won't need to stretch that much and she can still get nutrition. You could also toss in some extras at each meal, like an egg, or some chopped chicken.


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## ChristenHolden

I agree with a lot of others a crate is a VERY bad idea. The litter I was supposed to get a pup out of had 14 pups they kept mom in a wire crate. They lost about one a day I asked them several times to pup her in a pool in. One ear out the other then I jus found out the d******'s gave the 7 remaning pups. Mine included (see avvie) a flea and tick bath jus before therir 2 week b-day. They rest died before 3 weeks old.


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## Kiowa

Shepherdmom12, that's a great website and I will surely reference it again in the next few days. Or hours... Kai was plenty frisky this morning and we played a little before I went to work so I wasn't overly concerned about her going into labor while I was gone. This evening, however, she is panting non-stop, can't decide if she wants to eat or not, restless and very very clingy to me. She even keeps going over and kind of mothering my other grumpy old dog, Spud. She nuzzles him and licks his face and ears. He is loving it, though. She won't let me take her temp, but she is generally protective of her backside. She had to be muzzled for her anal glands to be expressed... That's her only quirk we haven't been able to overcome yet :shrug:

I've turned her favorite corner of the master bedroom into the birthing suite. I can't tell if she's having contractions or she's just panting that hard. Poor girl, she just looks generally miserable. I wish my husband wasn't deployed so I'd have a runner while I'm freaking out trying to play midwife! Thanks again for all the help and advice and I'll keep posting incase this is a false alarm. -Lori, Kai and Spud


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## selzer

Do you have food in the house so that you can be sequestered for several days? Good idea. 

You probably should not leave her alone with the litter until the little umbilical cords fall off on their own. The chances of her freaking out and injuring a puppy become less after that. Make sure the other dog cannot get near her birthing area. She should feel 100% safe. 

Good luck and let us know if somthing is happening. 

It was a hot day here, was she just warm? Panting is often a sign of labor. I am biting my nails for you in hopes that you can remain calm for your girl.


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## GSDSunshine

Good Luck to you and Kai. Sending good thoughts your way. Sounds liek the fun is about to begin.


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## GranvilleGSD

Sounds like you may be getting close. My girl started panting and being restless on a Sunday evening, she kept me awake all night with her panting. I stayed home from work on that Monday, she acted like that all day, then around 5pm the water broke and the first pup came 2 hours later.


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## Dainerra

do we have puppies yet???


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## Kiowa

No pups yet. This is worse than waiting for Christmas when I was a kid!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Especially since you have no idea what you're gonna get! GSD-Sheltie, GSD-hound, GSD-Lab...maybe even GSD!


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## Kiowa

I have another couple questions for anyone who might know... I should have thought to ask my vet when I took Kai to get her xray, but what effect will medications that I've already given her have on the pups? The day I adopted her, a month ago, I took her straight to the vet and got all of her shots, she got a course of antibiotics for her cough, runny nose and diharia (I just realized I have no idea how to spell that), and Valbazen wormer that specifically says not for pregnant dogs. 10 days ago, she got her boosters and another round of wormer. 3 days after that, she started showing and I realized she was pregnant. Will all that medication hurt the puppies?


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## GSDElsa

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Especially since you have no idea what you're gonna get! GSD-Sheltie, GSD-hound, GSD-Lab...maybe even GSD!


 
Too bad she can't take off a little bit of the tape for a little sneak peek :rofl:

Seriously, I keep checking this thread. Even though I'm not the one going through it, I'm really excited to see what these puppies are. If I knew you in real life, I'd sooooooo be there for the grand arrival!

Disclaimer: In case Mark reads this, no it does not mean that I will foster the next pregnant bitch and/or 10 1 week old puppies that comes in


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## Kiowa

So I keep counting back the days every day that she doesn't have the pups, and if they're not born today, then I think she was bred in the pound. So probably GSD-pitt, since that's the majority of what was in the pound with her. I just hope they get her smarts!


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## Dainerra

last summer, our local paper had an ad selling "GSD/Bloodhound" pups
last week, it was GSD/boxer...

sometimes I just have the urge to go just see how they look!


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## KITTIEG

Congratulations on your beautiful new dog & soon to be pups.
Looks like you've got a lot of great advice on the birthing. Last litter one of my dogs had was when I was 10. She first tried my bed, mom didn't like that ideal, she settled for my closet. She managed to have them w/o problems, we were there just in case. 
Looking forward to the baby pictures.


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## selzer

I cannot comment on what the vaccs and wormer will do. If you had known she was pregnant, than you could have refused it, now, we can just wait and see and hope for the best.


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## Kiowa

Selzer, Thanks and I guess I can just hope for the best for their health. Still no puppies today. I got an instant read ear thermometer, but I don't know how accurate that is on dogs. It said 100.1 this morning, then 97.3 three times in a row this evening. But I don't know if taking dogs temperature that way is accurate at all. She had me fooled yesterday and this afternoon she started nesting a little and panting hard again, and then it's like she just lost interest and decided to hold it off for a while longer. Maybe she's waiting for Easter? Maybe I've just gotten myself overly anxious. When she stretches out, I can see the puppies moving around!

Thanks again for everyones help! -Lori, Kai and Spud


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## GSDSunshine

Kiowa said:


> Selzer, Thanks and I guess I can just hope for the best for their health. Still no puppies today. I got an instant read ear thermometer, but I don't know how accurate that is on dogs. It said 100.1 this morning, then 97.3 three times in a row this evening. But I don't know if taking dogs temperature that way is accurate at all. She had me fooled yesterday and this afternoon she started nesting a little and panting hard again, and then it's like she just lost interest and decided to hold it off for a while longer. Maybe she's waiting for Easter? Maybe I've just gotten myself overly anxious. When she stretches out, I can see the puppies moving around!
> 
> Thanks again for everyones help! -Lori, Kai and Spud



Ooooo. Easter babies!!!! That would be fun. If her temp has truly went down then they should be coming soon. Come on Kiowa


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## ChristenHolden

Do we have babys Yet?


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## shilorio

how large is she? at an estimate hoe big will the pups be?


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## Kiowa

Still no puppies, but her temp is still around 98 or 99 according to the ear thermometer. Again, I don't know how accurate that means of taking temperature is. She has still been restless, but I haven't seen any contractions. She is licking at her backside more frequently and panting heavily still. It is warm, but the house is at 73 and my other dog isn't panting. I don't know, I can't tell if she's just uncomfortable or if she's getting ready!!!! She exhibits more nesting behavior when I let her outside, she digs and tries to get under my husbands "man shed" in the back yard, which she has never done before. Is she able to put it off because she doesn't want to have them inside? I'm going to empty out the closet in the guest bedroom and put down some newspaper/blankies and see if she'll nest in there. She doesn't like the kiddie pool. After she has them, is it ok to move them, or will she just move them back to where she wants them?

On Tuesday, 3/30, the X-rays showed the pups to be about 7 inches long. She is much bigger now and I can feel and see them move inside her. I really just want her to have them so she can quit being so miserable! My poor girl.


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## KITTIEG

Thanks for the up date. We're patiently waiting! ...................... notopcorn::wild:


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## abby

opcorn:


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## GSDSunshine

Me too.  Cant wait for puppy sausages :wub:


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## Dainerra

I keep checking.... oh well, hope they get here without any extra excitement!


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## ChristenHolden

GAWWWW I hate the wait I wanna see pup pups


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## selzer

It sounds like she is in labor, licking at herself, temp down and now back up a little, nesting. 

Have you seen fluid yet? 

If you see her straining, and no puppies, she could have one stuck, turned wrong. 

If you have a vet on call, you might want to ask directly. 

Good luck. It sounds close.


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## Dainerra

still nothing! AARRRGGHH! I'm going to go crazy waiting!


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## Kiowa

EASTER PUPPIES!! We have 6 so far. One came backwards, but it ended up ok. My Kai is pretty worn out right now, but she's loving the ice cream bit. Pictures and more after they're all here! I can't tell what kind they are, but they all seem to have her coloring.


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## LaRen616

Congrats!!!! Whoo hoo!!!! I'm excited to see pictures!!!! :happyboogie:


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## ChristenHolden

YAY congrats Looking for pics soon Lol I bet their beautyful


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## Cardinal Von Crossbones

Yay! Can't wait for pictures!! :congratulations:


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## Dainerra

I'll be checking back in the morning for pictures!! *cheer* 
any idea how many to expect??


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## Kiowa

The vet said there were 8 to 10 in the x-ray. The 1st pup is twice the size of the others!


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## selzer

Could you post the weights, I am just curious. Are they all nursing ok? 

Congratulations, you have a busy time of it, huh. 

It is sometimes hard to tell if she is really done or not. If you have any question, you might take her in for an x-ray tomorrow, or for a shot of oxytocin. 

For the next couple of days, keep that thermometer handy. If she is consuming the afterbirths, she may not be hungry at first, but she should be eating good by tomorrow evening, and drinking. 

If she is not paying attention to her pups, if they are crying incessantly, if she is not eating or drinking, take her temperature. If it goes up to 104 or beyond, call the vet. She can actually over-heat. Please do not make it so warm in the room that she gets too hot. 

Also, if you find a pup off to itself, warm it up slowly, put it against you for a while. Puppies temperature should be about 97 degrees. If they eat when they are cold they will die. The digestive tract shuts down. 

If you do put some type of heat in the box, heating pad or light, make sure the bitch and the pups can get away from it. 

Puppies actually cannot feel much at this point, but they can feel heat and cold. They will bunch together when cold and spread apart when hot. At this point, they will spend the majority of their time, eating or sleeping next to mom. 

When you weigh the pups, it is normal for them to lose weight in the first day, by the end of the second day you should start to see some weight gain. 

Good luck.


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## Kiowa

Kai is obviously worn out, but she's eating the ice cream and yogurt that I bring her and she's drinking, also. Still at 6 pups. I don't have a scale to weigh them, that's the one thing I wasn't able to get on my emergency puppy budget. They have all nursed and she keeps nuzzling them and moving them around. 

I called the emergency vet and she said that if she can't get the last 2 out in another couple hours, then I may have to bring her in. She is still in labor- panting, liking at her backside and pushing every now and then. I can't feel any more in there, but they've been getting smaller as they come out. Pictures in the morning!


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## GSDSunshine

Can't wait for pictures. Come on Kai, get those babies out.


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## justk9s

Take her out and walk her if you havent already. Take a flashlight, in case she pushes one out while she is walking. That will help her keep the contractions going. 
I just read thru all the posts. Wow you are really great for taking all this on. 
KIM


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## GSDElsa

Yaya!


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## Kiowa

Just got back from the vet and we lost the last 2. The 6 that we have are healthy and feeding well. If Kai's contractions don't stop by this evening, then I may have to take her in to have her uterus removed. She's still trying to push very hard. We did 4 x-rays and there are no more pups in there and she passed a yucky, bloody wad of goo. It wasn't black or green and the vet said that's a good thing.

Here's a couple pictures. Can't tell what they're mixed with, but their coloring is pretty neat. The nose wrinkles already make me think boxer.


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## LaRen616

Awwww poor mama! I'm glad that the remaining puppies are doing good.

Rip little babies


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## justk9s

They look German Shepherd to me. Typical looking sable pups. Good luck with the pups. I would slow down on the ice cream, that typically causes diarrhea. For the next few days you can poke two tums down her everyday.
She will eat about 3-4 times a day, 2-3 cups of food each time. You might add a bit of warm water to her kibble, to keep her fluid levels up.
It looks like you have yourself a really nice dog..
KIM


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## Dainerra

what cute little sausages!!! don't you just want to kiss his wrinkly little nose??


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## abby

so cute well done mum and puppies hopefully mum is ok and doesn't need surgery but they are really adorable.


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## Cardinal Von Crossbones

Oh goodness they are absolutely adorable, they'll for sure have no problems finding homes! Congrats, six healthy babies is quite a sucess! Glad to hear mama is okay too. 
^-^


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## Sigurd's Mom

They are sooo adorable.


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## HeidiW

Great Job Kim and momma!!


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## elisabeth_00117

Wow.. great job!

Hope Momma is still doing well and everything works out for you, Mom and pups!


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## Kiowa

Kai is already doing much better! Her contractions have finally quit and she got up and walked around the yard a bit. She are about a cup of food and is drinking water, also! Yay! Now I can start cleaning.


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## aubie

What a wild ride! Hope mom continues to do well along with the puppers!! Great job!!!


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## selzer

I am glad her contractions quit. A surgery at this point would really be bad. I have had contractions last more than two days, and did not need the uteris removed. Keeping the incision site clean and not tore into by the hungry puppies is just difficult, though possible. 

And not stressing her out etc. 

Also a surgery when everything is swolen, etc, is always more dangerous. I would probably schedule a spay two and half to three months from now. After the pups are weaned, and before her next heat cycle. 

You are to be congratulated. It looks like a nice lot of puppies. Your support is for the dam now, she will do all the cleaning and feeding of the puppies for a couple of weeks. I have never had to support a dam that was malnourished. I would definitely use a high quality multi vitimin. I use NuVet. 

Keep her hydrated, and take her temperature for a few days. 

Good luck.

It will be fun watching them grow up.


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## Kiowa

Selzer- Thanks again for the advice. I gave Kai her first round of Calcium pills today, stuffed in some cheese, and she's still getting an egg a day. I'm also making some good fatty chicken broth right now to put with her puppy food. Is there anything I shouldn't be feeding her? She's eating anything I put in front of her right now. 

At noon, she took a much needed nap and has just gotten up and is full of energy. She chased her squeak toy about 10 times, running hard, and then wanted to play with the water hose. She wants to be outside as long as I am and I leave the door open so she can occasionally check on her pups. Should I let her play like that so quickly? I thought it would be a day or two before she got her old energy back, so should I be limiting her activity?

Thanks again to everyone for all your help. It has definitely been used and has paid off! Lori, Kai, Spud and the Cadbury Puppies.


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## aubie

Hee hee, Cadbury puppies!! :wub:


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## chezza1981

hello i dont know if my support will be any good to u id just like to say well done to ur dog and puppys my gs add 11 puppys yestarday and was doin well up and about stoped pantin and i woke today to find she add 2 more 18 hours later just watch for more sings good luck take care if u would like to chat message ty tc x


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## elisabeth_00117

I am so happy that everything went well and continues to do so.

I will let the experienced breeders answer your questions but I wanted to say - WAY TO GO to both you and Kai!

You are such a wonderful person to do this.

Please keep us updated!


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## GSDSunshine

they are so Cute. Way to go! Can't wait to see the little sausages grow up. :wub:


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## selzer

I do not know about how to feed a malnourished bitch with a litter. Maybe some rescue people can pipe up on that. I would normally say go easy on the fat, you do not want her or the pups to get diarrhea. But you may know best. Protein good, dairy if she tolerates it well -- ie yogurt, cheese, cottage cheese, etc.


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## KITTIEG

Congratulations!!!! They are beautiful!!


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## Kiowa

Kai wouldn't eat her breakfast this morning and she didn't eat any of her food through out the night as he had been the last few days. I took her temp again and it's steady at 101.5. She was grazing a little when she came out to pee, also. My old dog eats grass quite frequently, well I don't know if he eats it or just enjoys pulling it out because I won't let him dig. But Kai was looking for a specific type and then eating it. Is there something she needs in her diet that I'm not giving her? I will be getting her more puppy food today when I go to work and plan on getting a better brand, as I didn't know that was the Petsmart brand. No wonder they pushed it. Kai's stool was solid this morning. She had a bit of the soupy-poopies last night, but I chalked that up to eating the afterbirth etc and wasn't worried because she was back to normal this morning and not fighting to go. Is a lack of appetite at this stage normal? 

Thanks for all the help, well wishes and advice so far. You have all been wonderful!
Lori, Spud, Kai and the Cadbury Puppies.


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## Melina

I can offer you no advice as far as the litter goes other than to say good luck 

I do have a question about the name Kiowa, however. Did you choose it from the book, The Things They Carried? Or from the Native American tribe?


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## GSDSunshine

Kiowa said:


> Kai wouldn't eat her breakfast this morning and she didn't eat any of her food through out the night as he had been the last few days. I took her temp again and it's steady at 101.5. She was grazing a little when she came out to pee, also. My old dog eats grass quite frequently, well I don't know if he eats it or just enjoys pulling it out because I won't let him dig. But Kai was looking for a specific type and then eating it. Is there something she needs in her diet that I'm not giving her? I will be getting her more puppy food today when I go to work and plan on getting a better brand, as I didn't know that was the Petsmart brand. No wonder they pushed it. Kai's stool was solid this morning. She had a bit of the soupy-poopies last night, but I chalked that up to eating the afterbirth etc and wasn't worried because she was back to normal this morning and not fighting to go. Is a lack of appetite at this stage normal?
> 
> Thanks for all the help, well wishes and advice so far. You have all been wonderful!
> Lori, Spud, Kai and the Cadbury Puppies.


As far as eating grass there might be something the is upsetting her tummy. Usually when we have picky dogs we want to wait them out and make them give in, but she has 6 pups to feed and they are going to be taking a ton of nutrition from her. 

So see what she will eat. She might not like the kibble... it not that great either. What have you tried feeding her? 

Here is a recipe forhttp://www.houseofwags.com/Biewers-satin-Ball-recipe-for-dogs-who-won't-eat.html. There are meant for dogs that need to put on weight and need extra nutrition. I would try those. Or try adding some boiled chicken mixed in with the kibble. Maybe even a new kibble, perhaps Blue Buffalo puppy or the grainfree wilderness. 

Anyways, just my 0.02. Hope she gets her appetite back and feels better.


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## Kiowa

GSDsunshine, I actually just got back from town with a bag of Blue Buffalo! I gave her boiled chicken in her kibble last night along with homemade broth. She ate fine last night but this morning, she didn't even want her boiled egg.  She's still interested in treats, however. I will try a recipe of the satin meat balls from that site you recommended. She's got plenty of energy, though. I'm just concerned a tad. Also, she is still kind of spotting... is that normal 2 days later? It's not excessive, just a drop or two every few hours or a smudge when she sits down. I sure am glad I have a carpet shampooer.

Melina, In my previous career in the Army, I was a helicopter pilot and the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior was the aircraft I flew for the past 8 years. That's where Kiowa came from. My husband is in Blackhawks, but they aren't nearly as cool


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## Cardinal Von Crossbones

Hahaha, the Cadbury puppies. That is just too clever. I don't really have any advice to offer, but wanted to say I hope she starts feeling better, and snuggles to the puppies! <3


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## selzer

I think she may still just be out of appetite from the afterbirths. I would not change her food. I am surprised she would not take the egg. A different kibble will not help a dog that is not hungry. I would not stress her out by changing her kibble at this crucial point. And I would not use a grain free food for her. Not all dogs do well on grain free food. Now is not the time to figure that out. If you must change it, then go to whatever you intend to wean the puppies on. 

The bleeding is perfectly normal. She may bleed for three or more weeks. Some do. Some do not. There is something they call it when the places where the puppies were attached bleed. Can happen for six weeks, but it generally goes away on its own. 

The time to change food is before a bitch is bred. After she is bred, you could slowly change food or switch to a puppy formula, but making major dietary changes when she is in the last week of her pregnancy or when she is lactating is a hard sell. I generally mix the kibble with Evanger's organic chicken, and add some yogurt. 

I know this is not the optimum situation as everyone was caught unawares. Give her whatever she will eat and reintroduce kibble, her appetite should return unless something is wrong. Check temperature, and if she is not trying to eat by tomorrow, try some pedialite in her drinking bowl. 

Good luck.


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## Melina

Kiowa said:


> Melina, In my previous career in the Army, I was a helicopter pilot and the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior was the aircraft I flew for the past 8 years. That's where Kiowa came from. My husband is in Blackhawks, but they aren't nearly as cool


Ahh, thank you for the explanation. I was wrong on both accounts.  I love the book The Things They Carried, though, and when I saw your name I immediately thought of that. I've considered joining the Air Force, but some things bar me from doing so, so it's not going to happen unfortunately. I do, however, seem to love books dealing with war, though they're not always in support of it (Johnny Got His Gun and Catch-22 are some of my favorites), kind of ironic having considered joining a branch of the military, huh. Either way, very cool that you were a helicopter pilot.  It's nice to hear that us females get opportunities like that while in the Army.


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## Miikkas mom

Lori, 
I have not read through this entire thread so I don’t know if this has been said yet – but knowing the folks on this board, I’m sure it has.....Anyway, I just wanted to say “Thank you, Lori”! Kiowa is very fortunate for have found such a loving & generous family! I wish you, Kiowa, and all of her puppies all the best! 

Also, I know this isn’t the right time or place, but thanks for your (and your hubby’s) service!


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## Kiowa

Melina and Mikka's Mom, Thank you for your support and please know that it does not go unappreciated. Catch 22 is one of my favorites and it was referenced quite often in bouts of occupational humor! My favorite Army Aviation book is Low Level **** about the evolution of the scout pilot role during Vietnam. If you read it, don't make any plans because you won't be able to put it down!

I actually ran into a little bit of resistance from several shelters here because they do not like to adopt to military families. Of course, there is a stereotype around military bases and the shelters here are still chock full of "deployment dogs" from the irresponsible people who don't live up to the commitment they made when they got a dog in the 1st place. I've had my old dog for 10 years, and every deployment, I either drove him or bought him a plane ticket to my Dad's farm in MT. Then got him back after we came home. There are many that won't do that for their pets, however.

Selzer, I went and changed her food because I was just about out of the Authority stuff anyway. I didn't know it wasn't a quality food and she liked it at first. I'd had her on that for a while because she was so thin when I 1st got her. She's eating a bit more today, but still not as much as she was before she had the pups. I have a bit of her old food left and am mixing it in with the new stuff. She eventually ate her egg and her calcium pills stuffed in velveta. She did eat her kibble after I put chicken broth on it, but I actually think she just ate because she knew I wanted her to. She is just silly smart. If I don't come in and check on her for a while, she'll come out and nose me until I follow her to the pups and then she almost points at them and then noses me some more like- look what I made for you. I had no idea Shepherds were SO smart. She's like a 5-yr-old. I have to spell Jeep or she gets excited and will run to the Jeep thinking we're going for a ride. I didn't teach her that, she just picked it up. I hope the pups get her smarts. At what age could I really start working with them for the basics like sit, stay and potty training?

Thanks again to everyone for your help and support. I would've been lost with out all of you.

Lori, Spud, Kai and the Cadbury Puppies.


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## Anja1Blue

I just caught up with this thread and wanted to say Lori you are AWESOME for the way you took up the challenge and brought Kai's family safely into the world! Many people would have taken her back to the shelter, or abandoned her somewhere - how lucky is she to have found you. Thank you for the dedication and love you have shown to this beautiful Momma dog......... and her babies are precious, they look like little PB sables.
______________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## selzer

Lots of small meals right now I think. She needs the nutrician, but, this is nature's way:

A wild canine, runs down prey and stays lean and fit, else she dies. She carries her litter and whelps her puppies. In order to prevent predators, she keeps the den clean, eating all the afterbirth and everything the puppies are producing. She does not hunt for a while, and works off her reserves. I am not likening our domestic pets to wild canines, but my point is, that if she is eating some, and is taking care of the pups, and they are gaining weight, than she is probably doing just fine. 

Also, did you check the calorie count of the blue buffalow as opposed to the Authority. It may be that she is eating less of the new food because it is denser.

Keep giving her her vitamin and the egg and anything else she really eats well. I will mix one small kibble meal with yogurt, the next with canned chicken, then next with yogurt, etc. 

It sounds like you are doing good. You said you could not get a scale. Walmart sells three different types of kitchen scale, one for $9.99 that goes up to 5 pounds, and the others are 14.99 and $25. By the time the pup is 5 pounds they are generally out of the woods, so that is really all you need. 

Weighing the puppies is the best way to know if your bitch and your pups need help. I would strongly suggest getting one and weighing the pups. If they lose weight two days in a row at this point -- they should be regaining their birth weight by now, then they need help. If all the pups are not gaining about 2 ounces per day, then you need to get your bitch to eat more. 

This could help relieve some of the worry that your are having.


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## GSDElsa

Kiowa said:


> Melina and Mikka's Mom, Thank you for your support and please know that it does not go unappreciated. Catch 22 is one of my favorites and it was referenced quite often in bouts of occupational humor! My favorite Army Aviation book is Low Level **** about the evolution of the scout pilot role during Vietnam. If you read it, don't make any plans because you won't be able to put it down!
> 
> I actually ran into a little bit of resistance from several shelters here because they do not like to adopt to military families. Of course, there is a stereotype around military bases and the shelters here are still chock full of "deployment dogs" from the irresponsible people who don't live up to the commitment they made when they got a dog in the 1st place. I've had my old dog for 10 years, and every deployment, I either drove him or bought him a plane ticket to my Dad's farm in MT. Then got him back after we came home. There are many that won't do that for their pets, however.
> 
> Selzer, I went and changed her food because I was just about out of the Authority stuff anyway. I didn't know it wasn't a quality food and she liked it at first. I'd had her on that for a while because she was so thin when I 1st got her. She's eating a bit more today, but still not as much as she was before she had the pups. I have a bit of her old food left and am mixing it in with the new stuff. She eventually ate her egg and her calcium pills stuffed in velveta. She did eat her kibble after I put chicken broth on it, but I actually think she just ate because she knew I wanted her to. She is just silly smart. If I don't come in and check on her for a while, she'll come out and nose me until I follow her to the pups and then she almost points at them and then noses me some more like- look what I made for you. I had no idea Shepherds were SO smart. She's like a 5-yr-old. I have to spell Jeep or she gets excited and will run to the Jeep thinking we're going for a ride. I didn't teach her that, she just picked it up. I hope the pups get her smarts. At what age could I really start working with them for the basics like sit, stay and potty training?
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for your help and support. I would've been lost with out all of you.
> 
> Lori, Spud, Kai and the Cadbury Puppies.


Wow! It sounds like you're really gaining her trust with this whole situation! To go through this with her after only a month, with behavioral issues, being a shelter dog...and have her so willing to let you close to the puppies is AWESOME!

That is irritating about the military families thing. Just as many irresponsible "regular" people! They should ask your plans if you get deployed and make sure there will be some place for the dog to go.


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