# WL puppy blues...



## nicewl (Nov 28, 2018)

Hello, so I am in desperate need of motivation, feeling drained since I got my WL GSD, he is currently 11 weeks. This wasn't rush decision, I was preparing for few years, I even asked my breeder if WL is ok for me because I work from home and I need some hours in a day for myself to concentrate and do my job. He said "oh that's fine, they sleep a lot as a puppies, so you will be fine", and guess what... looks like he doesn't need sleep at all, its like he is on constant action, I completely lost my whole life as I have to nurse him 24/7. He is all about playing as you can expect, it's like he never gets tired, at least he sleeps at night, but still looks like he doesnt want to do that. Nowadays I wake up and I want this day to end as soon as possible so I can go to bed, I feel like a complete slave, tired of cleaning, nursing, all that following and not being able to do anything for myself. I was honestly thinking if this was right decision, maybe he would be more happy with the right owners, he is still puppy so it's not too late, but everywhere I read it says that it will be much better later and you won't regret it. What I am looking for is probably an answer to that question, is it really ? Or I will be left without a life myself ? I do have a crate, I leave him there for 1-2 hours daily as I go to the gym, but thats about it. Can anything be done in this situation? I am not sure I have patience for this nightmare to end, I really didn't expect this to be that hard


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you view this as a nightmare then I don't think you were ready for a puppy. Perhaps you should return him and look for an adult to adopt.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I think as a puppy gets older, it does get easier. I've never had to devote my entire day to my dogs--unless I wanted to, though we did plenty of training, including classes, walks, and exercise. What exactly is your puppy doing? What does your day look like? Is he crated all day while you work? What mental and physical exercise is he getting? If you're not bonding and view your time with the pup as a nightmare, perhaps you'd both be happier if you re-homed him. Will the breeder take him back? Maybe you and the pup were mismatched. If you think you might rehome him, the younger he is, the better probably. I am sorry you're not enjoying the experience.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

I'll admit I found my first puppy as an adult to be difficult. If you think you can push through it, I would recommend finding a local trainer (NOT PetSmart/Petco) and enroll in a puppy class. That way you have someone to discuss these issues and can get hands on help addressing them. 

All puppies are full of energy and will keep going if you let them, doesn't mean you should. I gave Katsu and Steel structured down time where they would HAVE to nap. Steel being 18 weeks still gets his structured down time on the weekends. 

In the long run, yes it gets better, but your life will never go back to the same "pre-dog" state. You will have to dedicate time to this being - play, train, bond. If you were looking for a dog that would just hang out with you on a couch, I would recommend an older dog/different breed.


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## BlitzTheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

nicewl said:


> Hello, so I am in desperate need of motivation, feeling drained since I got my WL GSD, he is currently 11 weeks. This wasn't rush decision, I was preparing for few years, I even asked my breeder if WL is ok for me because I work from home and I need some hours in a day for myself to concentrate and do my job. He said "oh that's fine, they sleep a lot as a puppies, so you will be fine", and guess what... looks like he doesn't need sleep at all, its like he is on constant action, I completely lost my whole life as I have to nurse him 24/7. He is all about playing as you can expect, it's like he never gets tired, at least he sleeps at night, but still looks like he doesnt want to do that. Nowadays I wake up and I want this day to end as soon as possible so I can go to bed, I feel like a complete slave, tired of cleaning, nursing, all that following and not being able to do anything for myself. I was honestly thinking if this was right decision, maybe he would be more happy with the right owners, he is still puppy so it's not too late, but everywhere I read it says that it will be much better later and you won't regret it. What I am looking for is probably an answer to that question, is it really ? Or I will be left without a life myself ? I do have a crate, I leave him there for 1-2 hours daily as I go to the gym, but thats about it. Can anything be done in this situation? I am not sure I have patience for this nightmare to end, I really didn't expect this to be that hard





**THIS TOO SHALL PASS, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE**


I got my 8 week old WGSL almost 3 months ago, ive had shepherds before and knew what to expect, or atleast I thought I did. His drive, energy, biting, never being able to pet him, took a huge toll on my wife and I. I started questioning if this was the right move for us and I know my wife, who didnt have much experience with big dogs, was doing the same. 

We are now 2 and a half months in and this morning was the FIRST time Blitz hopped up on the couch with me, layed next to me and let me pet him without taking a chunk out of my arm. PROGRESS. Everyday gets a little better but I am doing a ton of training with him. He still goes after my wife more than me but even thats getting better. 



You are only 3 weeks in and your pup has only been on this planet for 11 weeks, even though they grow like monsters they are still infants. The most important thing I do with him now is a long walk or run to start the morning, it sets the tone for the rest of the day. Also, bully sticks and freezing peanut butter inside of a kong has brought back some of my sanity, he seems to be occupied with them for hours giving me some time for myself.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

I have another question for you to consider: What is your intent for this WL dog when he gets older? What "job" will he have? Do you have plans to get him into agility or IPO? Did you get him with the intent of being a companion animal only?

There's nothing at all wrong with the latter. But, your puppy will be getting bigger soon and have different needs for mental stimulation and exercise, and this is a pretty important time for you to be building a foundation for tomorrow. Don't waste it!!!

Yes, puppies take a lot of work. Both my husband and I work full time. Luckily, my husband works only 10 minutes from home and could/can usually come home in the afternoon to let the dog out for bathroom breaks and/or a walk. That helps a lot. But, in the mornings and evenings, we both had a schedule we developed for feeding, exercising, training and potty breaks. We often felt like "slaves" to our dog. 

Totally worth it. 

We put in a lot of work up front, and what we have at this time, almost a year later, is a healthy, happy, well-balanced WL dog that is a joy to be around. He's still work, don't get me wrong- many nights, after I get home late from work and classes, all I want to do is catch up with some stuff on the internet, and as soon as I open the laptop and start tapping on keys, that dog comes over and wants attention. I get annoyed. But then I think "this guy's been alone most of the day and I guess it's nice that he wants me to interact with him!" Sometimes I play tug with him while typing (NOT efficient), sometimes if I play with him for 15 minutes he's satisfied. Then on weekends I make sure to take him for longer, more interesting walks and have more play time. This helps him relax and sleep.

I know you need time to focus on work. You'll be more likely to get it if you play with your pup for a short period, and let him sleep. Train him for a short period, and let him sleep. Training and play can happen at the same time. Also, you can train the pup to entertain himself with some good toys. The more stimulation he gets, the easier it will be for him to relax for longer periods and let you get work done.

Do keep in mind what you want out of this dog as an adult, and if you put in the time, you'll have a really great dog later.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

U s e t h e c r a t e !!


Put the puppy up while you work. Get him out when you take a break. Put him up when you go back to work. Get him out at lunch time. Put him up when you go back to work. etc. He will live through it. So will you.


Look forward to some sort of sport training with this bundle. Keep that in mind as your exasperation threatens to take over.


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## Malibu (Jul 27, 2017)

So from reading these responses and pretty much compassion and experience from other WL owners I am almost getting the understanding that if you want a service dog or a dog that can visit hospital patients it better be a SL GSD.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Hi! Sorry to hear about the lifestyle shock! Few thoughts...

- You don't have to always give in. If he wants to Play, and you need to Work, you can firmly settle him in his crate or somewhere. He should not be given the power to run your life! He should have a daily regular schedule that fits both of you...

- I also work from home and I opted for an adult dog. I was careful to check his energy...when mine came for his home visit, he sniffed around quietly and then he took a nap. He has indeed been a dog that sleeps while you work, but is always up for activity. Prior to him, we met two other GSDs - a girl who was pacing, seemed very wired and alert (I could not imagine her ever dozing in the corner of my office!) and a tall boy who looked like a movie police dog but weighed almost 100 lbs (too much dog for me!). Although my rescue dog has some issues, overall his energy level and personality have fit our life.

- At this age, your pup is probably not deeply bonded yet, and he will be snapped up by other GSD-loving people, so not hard to rehome. However make sure you don't regret your decision...

- Is it worth it? For us, yes! When I picked our dog up from boarding after Thanksgiving, I was surprised by the huge surge of love I felt. And he was groaning/howling with joy, dancing around my legs. I often wonder why the heck my dog loves me so much (Sorry for being cheesy.) I have enjoyed being out on the trails with him this fall - my exercise buddy who always has a great attitude! It feels cozy when we are all home and he is snoozing in front of the TV. He helps me to feel safe when my husband is out of town. And he is just...funny. He has his own personality, his own doggy thoughts, his favorite bushes to sniff, his favorite stuffy that he keeps in his dogbed...a unique furry being who is now a family member.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I personally have more questions than answers.

You said you researched, what made you go with a WL GSD? What are your plans?

Do you have plans to get him into a breed savvy training program?

It sounds like someone may have given you a high drive WL without adequately preparing you. A good breeder WILL make sure you are prepared AND understand.

When you say he doesn't need sleep- like a toddler he may need it but not want it. You need to give him down time. Needing sleep and not getting it, like kids, can make them even more over the top. Get a routine where he is crated and comes out every few hours to eat, relive himself, and play for a little bit. Not where he is free all day and only crated 2 hrs. They can get overstimulated.

Will it get better? Depends on what you are willing to put into it, and if you have the aptitude and patience to do it in a way that shapes him properly for what he is. It is not for everybody.

Your post reads like a first time parent who just realized colic is a THING and not a myth. If you are truly distraught over it, I would look to give him back to the breeder while he is still young. However I would not judge your state of mind and ability to deal with this merely by reading a vent post. I distinctly remember being on a parent forum when my INFANT was 12 weeks old, had 3 weeks straight of day night confusion, and the jist of my post was I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep her lol 

Sorry, it throws a lot of us off guard. A lot of things in life do. Educate yourself, put the time in to find PROPER resources for that (the education), be consistent, and yes it will get better. Could take like 18 months..in general (not a rule of course but in general and particularly with a known good breeding) people find they mature around age 2. This is all stuff that would have been available during a typical research period before getting a WL GSD. 

Good luck, and there is a lot of good advice to be found on this forum


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I could go either way on this one.

My one dog is 3 1/2 now and he is just a delight. Just can't say enough great things about him but especially what it's like to live with him. He does now and always has had plenty of exercise and mental stimulation and he is very able to settle. I would not call him high drive or high energy. He has enough drive to be a pleasure to train with, but he does not have to be exhaustively worked. That's my kind of dog. 

We brought him home at 8 weeks and I do remember feeling like what have I done once or twice, I was pretty sleep deprived. I chose to take him out whenever he had to go during the night and then he grew out of that naturally, but I wasn't getting enough sleep in the beginning. It all worked out great, he was sleeping through the night soon enough.

He was SUCH an easy puppy. Never bit us, never destroyed stuff, so ridiculously easy to redirect and just wanted so much to make me happy. He did earn the nickname wreck it ralph because that's how he woke up in the morning, ready to trash the place, but it was easy to set him up with his own things and he would party with his toys and his kibble ball.

So if I could have the thought what have I done with the easiest puppy in the world probably anybody could have it about any puppy. I've heard it a fair bit and I'm not sure it means the end of the world, just maybe you're a little overwhelmed.

Here's the flip side: I've never had a dog that I felt like wouldn't settle. I've never had a dog that I felt like was running myself completely ragged just to meet their needs and that includes other lines of dogs I've had even working lines. I don't know if it's my lifestyle or the individual dogs I've had. I need down time and they all learn what settle down means early on. Because they're never pent up it isn't hard for them to get it and do it.

I've met dogs that wouldn't settle--and I can't say whether it was poor breeding or poor lifestyle because I think all of them had both.

My WL was selected by the breeder as a service dog candidate so the breeder would not have paired me with a high drive, unable to settle dog. She was a lot of dog when she was young but even at a year old we had an agreement...I need an hour with my coffee cup and you have to be cool. And she did, she rolled around the floor with chew toys and made silly faces at me but she gave me time to wake up and she entertained herself nicely and quietly.


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## Malibu (Jul 27, 2017)

My WL was selected by the breeder as a service dog candidate so the breeder would not have paired me with a high drive, unable to settle dog. She was a lot of dog when she was young but even at a year old we had an agreement...I need an hour with my coffee cup and you have to be cool. And she did, she rolled around the floor with chew toys and made silly faces at me but she gave me time to wake up and she entertained herself nicely and quietly.


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## kilby91 (Feb 8, 2018)

I went thru the same remorseful feelings when i first got my WL dog.. I thought i knew what to expect, because i have had high drive Labradors before.. I was not expecting the biting and the attitude that my WL GSD puppy had.. I thought i was doing something wrong.. When i petted him, he would mouth my hand.. When i told him no, he snapped at the air.. ALWAYS super hyper... I didnt know what i got myself into.. But after teaching him some rules, and figuring out how smart he is, we started making progress... Plenty of bully sticks, and frozen turkey necks to keep him occupied during down time.. He is now 13 months old and is my best buddy, even though he was a little **** as a puppy...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what is the pedigree
ow were the pups raised

coming at this from a totally different angle once again.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

At 11 weeks your puppy needs daily exercise. Not too much, but enough to tire him out, along with mental stimulation. You should not run to him every time he wants something. Puppies that age can learn to entertain themselves. Mine had toys, something to chew on, exercise twice daily where they could run around and wear out. I also started some basic training. If you do that at planned times, your dog will soon get used to your routine. You are the boss. You let him know what he can do and when he can do it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I've never had a dog that I felt like wouldn't settle. I've never had a dog that I felt like was running myself completely ragged just to meet their needs and that includes other lines of dogs I've had even working lines. I don't know if it's my lifestyle or the individual dogs I've had. I need down time and they all learn what settle down means early on. Because they're never pent up it isn't hard for them to get it and do it.
> 
> I've met dogs that wouldn't settle--and I can't say whether it was poor breeding or poor lifestyle because I think all of them had both.


Great post! And I agree, this could go either way. The short answer is yes, it does get easier. The first few months, and especially the first few weeks with a new puppy, are typically much more difficult than once he's 6 months, a year, two years old. But that's predicated on a lot of things - his genetics, your knowledge and experience with dog behavior and training (and/or what the resources for such are in your area), the time and effort you're willing and able to put into raising him. 

Some puppies are just _busier_ than others, for lack of a better word. Some seem to have been born with an excellent off switch and will easily settle around the house even if they have a good amount of drive. Obviously, the latter is much easier to deal with. But in either case, it is up to you to exercise him both mentally and physically and to provide him with some structure, which should include plenty of down time. If you're this overwhelmed this early it's possible that he just isn't the right puppy for you. From your post I'm not seeing any indication that you're feeling connected to him at all. Without that connection, without wanting to engage with him or him wanting to engage with you there's not much payoff to get you through the harder parts of puppyhood.

Halo was a bit of a hellion when she was young. She was our 5th GSD so we were not novices, but she was our first WL shepherd. In addition to being a wild and crazy girl, she was also sweet, adorable, charming, brilliant, devious, and delightful. She made us laugh all the time, even when she was being naughty, because she was so brazen, and always totally unrepentant. And while sometimes she was go go go go, she could turn it off like flipping a switch, and chill for awhile. A large part of that I'm sure is genetics, but I also don't constantly indulge my dogs, catering to their every whim, I expect them to adapt to the lifestyle we're able to provide for them.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Lol, we got a wgsl puppy on Memorial Day weekend and he is now eight months old and is still a terror. Not only does our pup love to bite, but he is also not too fond of corrections. We have/had WL's, WL/SL mix, and another wgsl, all were pretty much over the biting phase by about six months, the new guy not so much. Even with previous experience this pup has presented us with challenges, however we will move past this (eventually).

It takes time and effort, puppyhood is not a spectator sport. Set up a schedule for exercise, play, and training along with regular down time and your pup will adjust. It does get better when you put in the work and in most cases worse if don't. You have to decide if you can make that effort.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You need more of schedule and your puppy needs downtime- even if they don’t act like it. They can get over tired. Your puppy needs to be crated more and out during structured time. I remember needing to get away for a bit. All Puppies are different and can wear one down and will often give you something to learn and tackle but they do grow up to be incredible animals. Max as a pup taught me much. Luna most of the time made me look like I had it all figured out. It all does pay off in spades but German shepherds even as adults are engaging dogs with their owners and are very healthy active dogs. I can go to the trails for a few hours and run my dogs like the wind and go home take a 5 minute nap and they are ready for more and enjoy the one one one interaction. They are not hyper but get turn on in a seconds notice. They settle down beautifully in the house. My male always wants to do something with me follows me around -not in a pesky way. The other night I was putting a duvet on the bed so I could not have him in the bed and was in the room with kids and locked him out. He sat on the other side of the door and put his tail under the door crack - purposely. that was his way of being part of the action. He is always right there even if its his tail. He was much the same as a pup. I enjoy that.


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## nicewl (Nov 28, 2018)

sebrench said:


> I think as a puppy gets older, it does get easier. I've never had to devote my entire day to my dogs--unless I wanted to, though we did plenty of training, including classes, walks, and exercise. What exactly is your puppy doing? What does your day look like? Is he crated all day while you work? What mental and physical exercise is he getting? If you're not bonding and view your time with the pup as a nightmare, perhaps you'd both be happier if you re-homed him. Will the breeder take him back? Maybe you and the pup were mismatched. If you think you might rehome him, the younger he is, the better probably. I am sorry you're not enjoying the experience.


He is up for a play 24/7 and it's quite hard to control him (yes, I know he doesn't understand commands yet). I wake up, take him for a walk, I feel sleepy as I don't get all needed sleep so I want to take a nap as soon as we get back, he doesn't of course, he is all energetic and wants to play just after 6 hours of night sleep (I workout 6 times/week so 6 hours is not enough for me). So basically I try to take a nap for like an hour, then I make myself to get ready for the day, I put him in a crate for 2 hours (which he doesn't want to do) and go to the gym leaving him squeaky and barking, once I come back it's all silent, he is sleeping as I realise, I let him out and he wants to play again and I need to work at least for the next 4 hours, so most of the time he just playing in that time and I am getting ****load of distraction which just kills my results (I work as stock trader). At the moment he only gets physical excersie, we take long walks and do some running, he is too young to go to classes(that's what my breeder told me), but I will try to give it a call, these guys are good. 





Katsugsd said:


> I'll admit I found my first puppy as an adult to be difficult. If you think you can push through it, I would recommend finding a local trainer (NOT PetSmart/Petco) and enroll in a puppy class. That way you have someone to discuss these issues and can get hands on help addressing them.
> 
> All puppies are full of energy and will keep going if you let them, doesn't mean you should. I gave Katsu and Steel structured down time where they would HAVE to nap. Steel being 18 weeks still gets his structured down time on the weekends.
> 
> In the long run, yes it gets better, but your life will never go back to the same "pre-dog" state. You will have to dedicate time to this being - play, train, bond. If you were looking for a dog that would just hang out with you on a couch, I would recommend an older dog/different breed.


how do you MAKE them take a nap? 




[email protected] said:


> I have another question for you to consider: What is your intent for this WL dog when he gets older? What "job" will he have? Do you have plans to get him into agility or IPO? Did you get him with the intent of being a companion animal only?
> 
> There's nothing at all wrong with the latter. But, your puppy will be getting bigger soon and have different needs for mental stimulation and exercise, and this is a pretty important time for you to be building a foundation for tomorrow. Don't waste it!!!
> 
> ...


Yes, my main target was IPO, but since it's my first dog and I live alone and work from home this loos like a very difficult target, I feel like I've already lost everything, all my free time, I can't read books, I can't work, I can't watch my favourite tv show, every minute in the day is all about him, keeping him entertained, keeping an eye if he isn't chewing anything he shouldn't be supposed to, not pooping right in front of me and looking at me at the same time(lol) , and I am scared that once he gets out of puppy state he will need even more mental and physical exercising, and I am not sure if I can give him that, because I have plans on going to bodybuilding competition and this looks quite impossible at the moment cause I can't even eat as much food as I need anymore. All my friends who has dogs are living with their girlfriends and their dogs sleeping whole day which looks so easy and I feel like I am the only one struggling while living alone and all dog attention is to me only




CometDog said:


> I personally have more questions than answers.
> 
> You said you researched, what made you go with a WL GSD? What are your plans?
> 
> ...


Originally I wanted SL GSD, but did lots of reading and some said that WL is more "interesting" breed with higher drive and it looked all fun when I imagined how I throw him everything and he just brings it back to me lol, HOWEVER, I knew that this might be a bad idea and told the breeder point blank that I work from home and I need at least 4 quiet hours in a day, is it possible with WL ? He said that sure thats easy since puppies sleep a lot, almost all day, I trusted him and went for it, and now it looks nowhere as near as he said. He does sleep, but very far from all day, its like 1.5 hours of sleep and he is good to go again. Breeder is not professional, they have puppies only once a year, but they are registered officially and successfully completed all health inspections.Oh, and he didn't give me anything, I had to choose, it all went down "by queue" principle, so if you are 4th who paid money, you are choosing your dog after first 3 people chosen theirs, which is the first time I've ever seen.




Cassidy's Mom said:


> Great post! And I agree, this could go either way. The short answer is yes, it does get easier. The first few months, and especially the first few weeks with a new puppy, are typically much more difficult than once he's 6 months, a year, two years old. But that's predicated on a lot of things - his genetics, your knowledge and experience with dog behavior and training (and/or what the resources for such are in your area), the time and effort you're willing and able to put into raising him.
> 
> Some puppies are just _busier_ than others, for lack of a better word. Some seem to have been born with an excellent off switch and will easily settle around the house even if they have a good amount of drive. Obviously, the latter is much easier to deal with. But in either case, it is up to you to exercise him both mentally and physically and to provide him with some structure, which should include plenty of down time. If you're this overwhelmed this early it's possible that he just isn't the right puppy for you. From your post I'm not seeing any indication that you're feeling connected to him at all. Without that connection, without wanting to engage with him or him wanting to engage with you there's not much payoff to get you through the harder parts of puppyhood.
> 
> Halo was a bit of a hellion when she was young. She was our 5th GSD so we were not novices, but she was our first WL shepherd. In addition to being a wild and crazy girl, she was also sweet, adorable, charming, brilliant, devious, and delightful. She made us laugh all the time, even when she was being naughty, because she was so brazen, and always totally unrepentant. And while sometimes she was go go go go, she could turn it off like flipping a switch, and chill for awhile. A large part of that I'm sure is genetics, but I also don't constantly indulge my dogs, catering to their every whim, I expect them to adapt to the lifestyle we're able to provide for them.


 I can pet him, he sleeps at night, always happy to see me, licking me and biting at the same time (2:1 ratio), but I just find it hard to give him as much attention as he need and I am afraid that later it can get even worse as he will need some decent time and training regularly, and I already gave up my whole life, I can't even do personal workouts to my clients anymore so I have to say that "I'm full" but in reality I ain't doing anything


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## Saco (Oct 23, 2018)

Dogs are great workout partners.

A good game of tug is all I do to maintain upper body fitness tone (I'm no body builder though). It's exhausting and fun for me and the dogs. Watch some videos from Michael Ellis or Ivan B on how to play tug properly and teach the commands associated. 

Dogs- even puppies, love off leash sniff and ramble runs or hikes. Teach the dog some very solid off leash skills as a pup, and you've got a partner on the trails for life. The basics are come, heel, and down (at a distance or wherever they are). Place can also be useful for certain scenarios.

Do some fun find it games with the pup- learn the basics of IPO tracking and start laying some short trails. Lots of great ways to work a dog with their nose.

For the house, train place and settle. There are lots of great vids on how to go about this. Or work with a trainer.

Fetch- is a great workout for the dog but not tiring for you on workout days. He's a pup, so I'd keep fetch short and focus on tug, and nose work. 

If you don't want to spend time with the dog/puppy, rehome him. Dogs like GSD know full well if you don't like them or are frustrated with them, and will act out or become depressed (really). It's not fair to the dog to keep him if you get no enjoyment out of his puppy antics. Because the puppy stage should be full of fun and learning new things for dog and owner and it is a very short stage in their lives.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

You should be able to get 4 hrs at a time easily! More actually. You may need to plan your schedule a bit differently but it can absolutely be done.
What might be really helpful for you is to post your average weekday schedule, from waking to bedtime, and include what you do with the dog and when, and your own work / personal activities. People here could offer advice on how to do things differently to make the most of what time you can spend with the dog.

My husband and I planned out a schedule just before we got the puppy and it helped us out a lot.


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## mmags (Nov 30, 2017)

I think 99% of your problems can be solved by crate training. I have a crazy WL pup who just turned 4 months old. I dont have these issues and he is high energy, high drive. When I am busy in the house or need to do something without worrying about him, he goes in the crate with a bully stick, raw chicken leg quarter or a toy. When I go to work, he goes in the crate. When I sleep, hes in the crate. When I go to the gym, hes in the crate. He learned to just sleep in the crate or keep himself entertained. Ignore the crying and whining and they will learn that that doesnt get them attention or out of the crate. You will just have to deal with the potty training, thats part of raising a puppy. When im home and free hes out of the crate and either playing or I take him for a long walk or to play ball. We work commands and obedience as well for short bursts of time when were together. You will be fine you just need to manage it better and stop thinking he needs you every second of every day.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

In my opinion you should return the poor pup to the breeder.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

You are not crating your puppy enough! I didn't either and she wore me out, lesson learned.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

nicewl said:


> how do you MAKE them take a nap?


 
Put him in a crate with something to chew on or lick out of (I do a Kong with cream cheese, peanut butter, or pumpkin on occasion) cover it with a blanket and ignore him when/if he starts to whine. Mine settles down, or if he's really into that Kong/chew, he transitions from that to a nap. 


I agree with mmags - 99% of your issues should be resolved with proper crate training. Look up crate games online and do some of those as a form of engagement. Puppies go, go, go until you make them stop. Invest in an exercise pen and put him in there with some toys when you want down time. Potty training is just that, potty training. Take him out after every episode, throw a party when he potties outside.


IPO is time consuming, and is a bit of a high goal for a first time dog owner. I think it's doable, though. You just really have to want to do it. When I was working my older GSD (Katsu) we trained twice a day minimum (her meals) on top of Nosework classes/training. Not to mention the group meetups for obedience practice and protection work. 


The first one is always tough. It's a learning process for both of you.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

ausdland said:


> You are not crating your puppy enough! I didn't either and she wore me out, lesson learned.





Never thought I'd hear that ...................




SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Those puppy/adolescent days were great........you only get one chance.......if you choose to take advantage and put in the effort......you'll get many years of incredible enjoyment for your efforts...............otherwise...woulda coulda and shouldas are a haunting load to haul.




SuperG


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

What these folks are saying is 100% true. The crate training saved my sanity. NO WAY could I deal with a puppy loose in the house chewing cords, peeing wherever, eating stuff. We crate-trained. 6 months into having Boon my husband said "Boon is great. I thought we were gonna have a nightmare of poop all over the house and chewed up things. The neighbor told me 'oh, he'll probably pee on stuff til he's about one and then it'll stop' but we had no issues at all."

I looked at him and said "That's why I crate-trained. To have no problems."

And you don't just want as few problems as possible for your OWN sanity and rest, but for the DOG'S well-being too! He doesn't want to be punished and yelled at! But he doesn't know the rules. You have to show him! Gently show him. 

Your dog should not spend too much time in the crate but when he's out, he has to be in a safe spot, like an exercise pen or tethered to you, learning the things you expect of him. And when you can't watch him, or need a break or have clients, into the crate he goes for rest and quiet.

Read up on crate training. It's gonna help you a lot.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> What these folks are saying is 100% true. The crate training saved my sanity. NO WAY could I deal with a puppy loose in the house chewing cords, peeing wherever, eating stuff. We crate-trained. 6 months into having Boon my husband said "Boon is great. I thought we were gonna have a nightmare of poop all over the house and chewed up things. The neighbor told me 'oh, he'll probably pee on stuff til he's about one and then it'll stop' but we had no issues at all."
> 
> I looked at him and said "That's why I crate-trained. To have no problems."
> 
> ...



We all go about it differently....whatever works for the dog and human....


I'm guessing there are some members in here that acclimate their pup(s) to house rules without the use of a crate......especially if one has the luxury of being at home most all day.


Regarding your comment about a "safe spot".......I'm glad you included "tethered to you" because I cannot think of a better "safe spot" than next to their human.........IMO....it gets you down the road as a team wonderfully.




SuperG


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You also need to get him out around other dogs as soon as he has his shots so he is used to being around other dogs. WL are more intense in my experience, but SL need a lot of interaction and stimulation too. You will figure it out. See if there is a good puppy class nearby with a trainer used to WLs.


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## NaughtyNibbler (Oct 28, 2018)

*Nicewl:*
Your thread could well have been started by me. My situation with my 4-1/2 month puppy sounds similar to yours. This is my 3rd GSD. I worked long hours with my prior 2 dogs (not from home). There were a few challenges with them, but I managed things without many problems. With the first 2, I managed without using a crate. With my 2nd GSD, I used a baby gate in the kitchen and was successful with leaving my puppy behind the baby gate in the kitchen for the first few months when I was at work. 

My current puppy, Cassie, is another story. She broke out of the baby gate immediately. The first crate, I already had and tried to use, wasn't sturdy enough and she escaped from that upon 2nd use. In hindsight, I should have had the ex-large sturdy version from the start, but I was thinking about my prior two dogs and the experiences I had with them - not Cassie the super strength devil dog, LOL.

 My first GSD was very easy to potty train and the 2nd easy as well. Cassie has been more of a challenge. 

I'm retired now, so you would think things would be easier. That hasn't been the case with my puppy, Cassie. The first week or two, I tried to carry on with my prior schedule/habits. I went to the gym generally 4 times a week and then volunteered 2-3 times a week at a therapeutic horseback riding center (usually 4+ hours at a time). Two weeks in I sort of crashed and burned and let my schedule get disrupted. Haven't been volunteering and haven't been getting to the gym.

In hindsight, I should have planned to stay home more during the first 2 weeks. I see that as a mistake I made. I should have had the sturdy crate from day one.

One challenge for me is that the shorter days of Fall and Winter. It can be harder to get in walks, training and outdoor play time when it's dark out. 

I tend to have "the disease to please" - a people pleaser. People pleasers can tend to be pet pleasers. You have received a lot of good advice from others. It's taken some work for me to ignore cries and noises from the crate and feeling guilty about it. As others have said, the dog eventually settles down. Making plans to keep them in the crate for reasonable periods of time is a good idea.

I know this is not for everyone, but I let my puppy sleep on my bed from day one. The majority of the time it works out fine. On a few occasions, when she has been too hyper at bedtime and continues to use me as a chew toy, I've had to put her in her crate for a time out for an hour or two. I keep a few toys and chew items on top of the bed. Generally, If I put a cover on me (over arms and legs), she will quit trying to use me as a chew toy. For most nights, I'm able to get in a couple hours of TV time and at least 8 hours of sleep time, with her on the bed. She generally cuddles next to me at some point during the night and I can pet her without her aggressively chewing on me. Sometimes, she does some low key mouthing, which isn't generally a problem and I limit that activity.

When I get up in the morning, the game is on! It's like Cassie is plugged in and is in high gear. I get out of bed in combat mode. I try to get her to bypass the wee wee pad in the kitchen and outside for a bathroom run. After several frustrating mornings, I've learned that I have to put her in her crate after a potty run. That gives me time to make some coffee and get a cup in before engaging in combat. 

Best wishes with your decision. The advice to make a schedule and plan how you will handle the dog is a good one. In addition to planned crate time, perhaps it possible to have someone take the puppy out for a walk or playtime during a couple days of the week. Also, you might be able to find some doggie day care. I know that my vet offered doggie day care. He has a yard area in the back of his clinic, where dogs could romp and play (under the supervision of a staff person).


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## nicewl (Nov 28, 2018)

can someone tell me what is life like with a grown up WL GSD ? I heard too many completely different stories. Are they "bad" just being family dog, or they can be calm at home ?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

You would have to find a reputable honest breeder would match what you want. Many different types -years ago I had a working line incredibly calm dog very quiet in the house. Strong drive not full of energy. Would not waste energy. Crazy serious the world was invisible he saw only his people.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I love my working line. He is everything I could ask for in a dog. And my puppy, who is a LOT of puppy, is starting to settle down.

ANY dog is work. ANY puppy is all time consuming. ALL dogs need an outlet for their energy. You either enjoy it or you don't. if you don't, it doesn't make you bad. It just means it's not your thing.

Find a good trainer. Build the bond with your puppy. If you make it thru the next few months, you will never regret it.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

nicewl said:


> can someone tell me what is life like with a grown up WL GSD ? I heard too many completely different stories. Are they "bad" just being family dog, or they can be calm at home ?


I think it depends on your definition of a family dog. My girl was a great family dog in some ways, she loves my step kids and would make happy momma dog faces when they would crawl into her dog bed and hug her.

She also bit one of them by accident because she's just nuts for a tug or ball and my step daughter yanked the tug toy as she went for it and the dog missed and got her bare leg. She obviously restrained herself as much as possible and there was just a scratch. This I take responsibility for because she was sloppy with her mouth playing with me before I met my husband and i just didn't care and i didn't try to make her do better. After that happened the kids were not allowed to play with her while I boot camped her on impulse control with her toys and being more careful with her mouth. They went back to being able to play with her and it never happened again. I had kids come to my farm a lot and would never allow anyone else to play with her for that reason. She was just too powerful, way too intense on a toy. Nothing intentionally nasty about it, just not a dog someone else's kid should be playing with. 

She worked for me as a service dog, she trained in obedience for fun on off days, and we went for offleash walks every day while the kids were in school. When we were all home together, she was probably what most people would think was an ideal family dog. Great manners. Very mellow indoors. 

I was religious about exercising her mentally and physically, her job being a big outlet. Impossible for me to know what she would have been like trying to be a family pet with limited exercise, limited mental stimulation. She wanted to work and she did.

My white dog when on vacation to a little cottage with my husband's niece and her two young kids. They can play with him with toys no problem and I have no worry. He is so polite, so gentle. 

I had another working line dog a long time ago when I was young and single. He didn't train anything like I train my dogs now, but I was a runner and he ran with me every day and could also come to work with me sometimes so he had enough going on and he was okay in my apartment with me. He was too intense in some situations too and would chase kids if they ran...kind of a serious looking chase, so I always had to be careful about that. He had a streak to get a little neurotic and obnoxious but I am sure he would have been better if he had had more mental outlet. He was way under utilized but because he was out and about so much he managed.

Sure they can be calm at home, but traits that make a good "working" dog can be traits that are hard as a "pet"...tenacity, boldness, energy and drive to work until the job is done, rising to the challenge, loving figuring out a challenge...sometimes not backing down easily. If you haven't met those needs and you don't have the skill to make your dog want to do what you want them to do a dog with those qualities can be a nightmare "pet" because all of those traits will be used against you.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

nicewl said:


> He is up for a play 24/7 and it's quite hard to control him (yes, I know he doesn't understand commands yet). I wake up, take him for a walk, I feel sleepy as I don't get all needed sleep so I want to take a nap as soon as we get back, he doesn't of course, he is all energetic and wants to play just after 6 hours of night sleep (I workout 6 times/week so 6 hours is not enough for me). So basically I try to take a nap for like an hour, then I make myself to get ready for the day, I put him in a crate for 2 hours (which he doesn't want to do) and go to the gym leaving him squeaky and barking, once I come back it's all silent, he is sleeping as I realise, I let him out and he wants to play again and I need to work at least for the next 4 hours, so most of the time he just playing in that time and I am getting ****load of distraction which just kills my results (I work as stock trader). At the moment he only gets physical excersie, we take long walks and do some running, he is too young to go to classes(that's what my breeder told me), but I will try to give it a call, these guys are good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This might be a red flag. Your breeder let you choose your pup and based on the order of money received? The breeder should have been selecting what pup would meet what person's lifestyle based on who wanted what from that litter


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

SL puppies can be every bit as demanding as WL pups, sometimes more so, but all puppies typically require an investment of your time. My WL is a cake walk now as far as I'm concerned though as a pup he kept us busy. He requires exercise regularly, but is forgiving when free time is short. He's a bed hog or so my daughter tells me and he likes licorice and spaghetti noodles, actually he'll eat most anything. He's clear headed, plays extremely hard and easily "forgives" crap moves by other dogs as well as people. He enjoys training and has very nice obedience. Your pup probably possesses a similar eagerness to work, learn to use it and your situation will improve.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I would think every puppy in a litter is different to a degree only people can tell you their own experiences. 

The Christmas tree max taught Luna to steal all the ornaments off the tree lol!!!! She learned that fast! He did not to teach her to jump in the tree as he so offen did lol! 

Max I always knew would get along more then that become great friend with a dog or pup I brought home due to the fact my energy is different and would be my pup or dog. He did not like other dogs starting around 8 months. As he matured he was less intense about it. We can sit in a room of dogs and walk past dogs in a tight trail path with moSt a reminder to leave it. 

Luna when we brought her home at 12 weeks was always wary as a pup with boxes and buckets - she would alert to a find in a bucket or a box but still will not put her head deep in a tall bucket or throw herself into a big box. Anything else she is fine with and will swim a half of a mile out to examine a rock or an old post sticking out of the water. She is not crazy about really big crashing waves prefers swimming in the bay nice flat calm water. Luna barked at some pups out -in the beginning and as she bonded and situated in her new home she had made some dog friends through a trainer I know. Now she is most aloof with any dogs when we are out. She does not like charging dogs in her face though. 

Anyone I welcome in the house family friends friends and family the dogs never met -the dogs are a big welcome wagon my friends love my dogs!


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

nicewl said:


> can someone tell me what is life like with a grown up WL GSD ? I heard too many completely different stories. Are they "bad" just being family dog, or they can be calm at home ?


In MY limited experience (raising and training a WL GSD for 1 year), the saying "a tired dog is a good dog" is true. It means the more time you spend exercising and training your dog (i.e., giving him PHYSICAL and MENTAL stimulation), the better he will be able to settle when it's down-time. 

This doesn't have to be constant. Several short training/play sessions a day can work. A long walk (or walks) on the weekend will help. Be smart about it. Don't overdo things. Make what time you have count. AND, don't forget... there are different levels of drives in WL dogs. Mine does well with short training/play sessions during weekdays and longer walks/training/play on weekends. Other dogs may have the need for more activity.

The dog will tell you what he needs and wants. When my dog has had sufficient exercise and stimulation, he wants to lay down in a quiet spot and is content to sleep. 
When the dog is not getting as much activity/interaction as is optimal, he tends to pester me with his toys and try to engage me in play (not a bad thing, really). He'll tend to be more mouthy. A tired dog will lay next to me in bed as I read at night and be settled. A non-tired dog will nibble at me and bite at the pillows and be restless.

What is life like with a grown GSD? You're going to influence a lot of it. The dog is the raw material, and you're going to shape what he becomes, to a large extent.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I posted my previous post in the wrong thread - it was suppose to be in the puppy nerve thread by comet dog -I wondered where it went I was on the phone and in a rush to sign out -oops


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes showlines puppies can be Handful a happy healthy normal handful also. My family was a bit shell shocked after having a adult working line and kids brought up with a King Charles cavalier. My first gsd pup but knew it would be work pups are work all pups. Max put them through the ringer as a pup in a good way lol they all adore him now and adore is an understatement.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

nicewl said:


> can someone tell me what is life like with a grown up WL GSD ? I heard too many completely different stories. Are they "bad" just being family dog, or they can be calm at home ?


2 things...1)you're asking these questions NOW??? These are questions you should've asked *before* you bought a WL GSD (or any dog for that matter) and 2)you get 6 hours of sleep and you're complaining????!!!! I was lucky if I got that much.

Sorry for being blunt but what I got from what you're saying is that the pup is "cramping your style" right now. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I got out of your posts. What you've got to do is take the next few days and decide if you're willing to put in the time or return the pup as soon as possible to give it a chance with someone else and save you and the dog from getting more attached to each other. What you have to realize is your story isn't a new story. We've all been through the same thing, some of us multiple times. We've all wanted to return our pups at one point or another. But most of us want to have a pup and are willing to spend the time to raise it properly and to give them a good life. We power through the "rough" times because we know in the long run, everything will work out fine. Do the right thing: either put in the time/work or return the pup. And if you do return the pup and you still want a dog, adopt a senior citizen dog or find a breed that likes to lie around all day...because those seem to be the "speed" of dog that fits your lifestyle. Again, sorry for being blunt but I think someone needs to give you a different perspective. Oh btw, I agree with everyone else here.....crate training; it's a life saver for me and most everyone here. Good luck.


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## JewelLaverne (Aug 2, 2018)

I seem to be responding to all these posts that are several days old, because so many of them resonate with me (and I see them in the highlights email I get, as I assume everyone does.)
I have a 5 month pup who is a handful. He came from the shelter, and he is my first GSD, so I don’t know what kind of line he is from, but he is a bundle of energy and sharp teeth and always looking for trouble, much like yours.
In addition to the good advice others have given you, I find that, like anything else, if you focus on the negative, you will have a negative experience. If you try to think more about what you love about your dog, it will make it easier to endure tha parts you hate. When I was feeding Siggy his dinner earlier, I made him sit before I put his bowl down, as I always do, and he happened to be standing with his water bowl behind him. I thought he would swing around to sit, since he surely knew that the bowl was right behind him. Nope. He sat right in the bowl of water and never batted an eye. That was the funniest part; how it didn’t even faze him. He just continued staring at me with that intense look GSDs get, like a police dog at work, with his butt in a bowl of water. He had to know he was sitting in his water bowl—right??? Did the laugh I got make it worth the chunk missing from my hand that he bit earlier? I don’t know, but those funny moments, plus the moments when he lets me bury my nose in that fluffy, soft fur on his neck, and the way he hurls his entire body at me, full force, and licks my face, when I come inside after going out to get the mail (well, that isn’t entirely fun, but that kind of intense joy because I’m BACK is pretty cool) give me hope that things will get better and he really is a great dog. Try to focus on that stuff when you are dealing with the frustrating and overwhelming stuff. 
And, know that you aren’t alone in your struggles. Look around this forum. There are tons of frustrated people considering giving up. Do you want to give up more than you want to keep trying? Only you know if the struggle is likely to eventually be worth it to you. 
Also, I think you said you’ve only had him a couple of weeks? It may take longer than that to bond. I feel like it took me longer to bond with Siggy than with some other dogs I’ve had. Maybe because of all the biting.


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## Ozymandiasmv (Oct 3, 2018)

JewelLaverne said:


> I seem to be responding to all these posts that are several days old, because so many of them resonate with me (and I see them in the highlights email I get, as I assume everyone does.)
> I have a 5 month pup who is a handful. He came from the shelter, and he is my first GSD, so I don’t know what kind of line he is from, but he is a bundle of energy and sharp teeth and always looking for trouble, much like yours.
> In addition to the good advice others have given you, I find that, like anything else, if you focus on the negative, you will have a negative experience. If you try to think more about what you love about your dog, it will make it easier to endure tha parts you hate. When I was feeding Siggy his dinner earlier, I made him sit before I put his bowl down, as I always do, and he happened to be standing with his water bowl behind him. I thought he would swing around to sit, since he surely knew that the bowl was right behind him. Nope. He sat right in the bowl of water and never batted an eye. That was the funniest part; how it didn’t even faze him. He just continued staring at me with that intense look GSDs get, like a police dog at work, with his butt in a bowl of water. He had to know he was sitting in his water bowl—right??? Did the laugh I got make it worth the chunk missing from my hand that he bit earlier? I don’t know, but those funny moments, plus the moments when he lets me bury my nose in that fluffy, soft fur on his neck, and the way he hurls his entire body at me, full force, and licks my face, when I come inside after going out to get the mail (well, that isn’t entirely fun, but that kind of intense joy because I’m BACK is pretty cool) give me hope that things will get better and he really is a great dog. Try to focus on that stuff when you are dealing with the frustrating and overwhelming stuff.
> And, know that you aren’t alone in your struggles. Look around this forum. There are tons of frustrated people considering giving up. Do you want to give up more than you want to keep trying? Only you know if the struggle is likely to eventually be worth it to you.
> Also, I think you said you’ve only had him a couple of weeks? It may take longer than that to bond. I feel like it took me longer to bond with Siggy than with some other dogs I’ve had. Maybe because of all the biting.


Amen!


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## chanceduke (Dec 8, 2018)

perfectly said, same with Duke, I learned that.. Thank you for encouragement. Love my Duke, hes a dork, but love him the same LOL


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

nicewl said:


> can someone tell me what is life like with a grown up WL GSD ? I heard too many completely different stories. Are they "bad" just being family dog, or they can be calm at home ?


I've been following this thread, but haven't commented. But I need to respond to this one!

When this dog grows up he can be your best friend, or your worst nightmare, it's really up to you! There are just a ton of old cliches that fit here..."you get what you pay for", "nothing ventured nothing gained", "what goes around comes around", and on and on and on!

But let's be blunt, this is a little 8.5 wk old puppy! If he's already too big a burden, send him back to the breeder ASAP, because he IS going to be even more "difficult" in the months to come! And you can't lie to this puppy about your true feelings, he'll see right through it. 

Any under exersized, under stimulated puppy, left to their own devices will make your life a living he'll! He really hasn't even begun.

If, on the other hand, you're just venting and trying to learn how to make your lives better, buck up! Lead the puppy to adventures you'll both enjoy, play tug, have him chase balls, get down on the floor and wrestle with him! Bonding with a puppy, or an older dog for that matter, is as much about you learning them as it is him learning you! Take him out for exploration in your yard (for now since he doesn't yet have all his vaccinations). Litter your floors with plastic bottles that you intend to recycle and let him chew on them a bit before they leave. Chase him around, most puppies really like that! And don't wait for classes to begin teaching him some manners. Look up Stonnie Dennis on YouTube, he's got lots of good videos that can help you teach your puppy the basics! If he's getting adequate exercise he WILL sleep most of the day! 

And most importantly figure out what makes him tick! His likes and dislikes, his personality and his quirks. This puppy is a living breathing being like no other. Sure tthere are generalities, but each one is also unique! Get to know him..but honestly, if after a week or two you aren't feeling the bond, for both of your sakes, send him back to the breeder.


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## Dionne2u (Nov 5, 2018)

Well said tim s adams and couldn't agree more!!!


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## nicewl (Nov 28, 2018)

Thanks for everyone who responded, I appreciate it, so some updates: things are a bit better now, I am getting used to him, potty training is pretty good, he didn't poop in home for like a week now, when he wants to poop he starts intense crying so I know it's time to take him out. Sleeping at night is fine, once lights out he knows it's time to sleep. We had training session with professional and he said that my dog is well balanced dog, not scary, not hyper active. However I still can't put in 100% working sessions, even if he knows that I am working and tries to sleep. Main problem is that I can't get my meals in( I work out 6-7 days/week) while working because I don't want to wake him up as I love some peace lol. So I will probably start to crate him in other room while I work. Crate training is going alright, I didn't do anything special just put him in there for few hours every day. There were already few times where he didn't make a sound when I put him in and left home, most of the time there is only few barks and he is silently waiting for me to come back. 

So I have few questions:
1) how much of QUALITY time per day grown/adult gsd needs ? I live in an urban area, so no hiking available, we don't have mountains. I can't go to forest daily too as there is none close to me.
2) can anyone help me with my schedule, as I am currently struggling with work and life in general, I'd like to know what is the most effective way to get "doggy time" in my schedule so he is happy and exhausted and I have time for myself


So my schedule is basically looks like this
7am - 8am we wake up and go out, we spend only like 10mins outside in the mornings as it's cold here, we get home and both get our first meal of the day.
8am - 10am is time when I am diggesting my oatmeal and basically chilling in bed, HOWEVER, there were times when my dog wanted to play and I was like "please shoot me, I just want to sleep one more hour"
11am - 1pm is time when I go to workout & grocery shopping after, dog is in crate at that time. Before this & once I come back I take the dog out 2nd & 3rd time.
2pm - 6pm trading session time, this is the most important time of the day where I need 100% concentration for myself, dog usually sleeps for some time, asks for attention, playing or chilling out. AFTER the session I take him out for 4th time, sometimes even during the session for a quick potty break, depends when he wakes up.
7pm - 11pm is 2nd trading session, this is not as important as the first one, but I'd like to participate in this one too, I do have occassional small breaks(~5mins) during the session, AFTER this we go out for the last time before bed
12pm sleep time


Is it possible to raise such dog and have a life with this schedule ? I did have time for myself to work on new projects or watch a movie when I was alone, but not anymore. Thanks in advance for everyone who did give it a read


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Are really serious? You seem to have/need more time for yourself than for the dog. Not ideal. If you decide to make this work, you need to make way more time for working with the dog otherwise re-home him and get a retired Greyhound and a comfy couch for him/her or no dog at all to enjoy your personal time. Be honest about it, for your sake and the dog's.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

I agree with Wolfy...I see a minimum of 14 hours dedicated to yourself. I try to give my dogs at least 3-4 hours strictly to themselves play time each day. 45 min -1 hour in the morning, plus 1.5-2 hours in the evening. Not to mention the days we have training one-on-one. Weekends are time with dogs for me (6 hours play time plus whatever else we do. Dogs crated minimally for grocery shopping). I work 8 hour days M-F as well (7-3pm) and manage to work out 3 times a week minimum. 

I think you really need to decide if you're willing to sacrifice your personal life for your dog. It's not fair to the dog to be sitting around all day/night. 5-10 minute breaks aren't enough, imo. An older dog or a retired greyhound may appreciate it...or just get a cat.




Edit to add: what do you mean by "taking dog out" ? Is this 5-10 minutes or 30mins to the whole hour?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I wish I had 2 hours to digest my oatmeal. This is what happens when I try to vacuum


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I honestly think having a GSD is not a good fit for you. You seem to view everything about this puppy as a chore or an inconvenience. Puppies should be great fun, and enrich your life. Yes, they can be a pain in the butt. They are noisy and messy and demanding. It takes a lot of work to turn an unruly puppy into a lovely grown dog. My youngest GSD was such a pill as a puppy, but I enjoyed the heck out of her anyway.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> I wish I had 2 hours to digest my oatmeal. This is what happens when I try to vacuum


Ha! What happens when you mop??


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I wish I had 2 hours to digest my oatmeal. This is what happens when I try to vacuum




I literally laughed out loud. I love that you took the time to get a photo of this. They are soooo bad sometimes, but so funny. How can you not appreciate their enthusiasm?!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

nicewl said:


> So my schedule is basically looks like this
> 7am - 8am we wake up and go out, we spend only like 10mins outside in the mornings as it's cold here, we get home and both get our first meal of the day.
> 8am - 10am is time when I am diggesting my oatmeal and basically chilling in bed, HOWEVER, there were times when my dog wanted to play and I was like "please shoot me, I just want to sleep one more hour"
> 11am - 1pm is time when I go to workout & grocery shopping after, dog is in crate at that time. Before this & once I come back I take the dog out 2nd & 3rd time.
> ...


No. It's not. Please return him to the breeder. You are clearly not in the position to have a dog. That puppy is living his life in a crate.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Lying in bed for two hours in the morning, isn't really a luxury you can afford with either dogs or kids in the house. The sacrifice will pay off in the long run, but you need to prioritize your dog. This schedule can easily be adjusted to make time for the pup/dog. That two hour window in the morning stands out to me in particular.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

You'd be surprised how much upper body workout you get playing tug with a high power dog for 10 minutes. I have always been a runner and skier, so the dogs easily join me on those outdoor activities, but the tug-play builds my upper body nicely. I was wondering why I was starting to look like Brandi Chastain, and realized it was all from playing tug with my dogs ... I'm not even kidding. 

So why not do things to work out with the dog, and not leave him behind? A pup shouldn't be doing miles, but there are lots of fun things to do with a pup that will also build muscle for you! Then work your way up. Part of the joy of owning a dog is taking him out for runs and hikes.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steve Strom said:


> Ha! What happens when you mop??


You mean when I clean up the water from when she flings the whole water bowl across the room?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> You mean when I clean up the water from when she flings the whole water bowl across the room?




I love this so much. Bad puppies are the best.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

nicewl said:


> Is it possible to raise such dog and have a life with this schedule ? I did have time for myself to work on new projects or watch a movie when I was alone, but not anymore. Thanks in advance for everyone who did give it a read


You can raise a dog under a lot of different conditions. I'm pretty selfish in that I don't do much of anything "For" my dogs. Its all for me. They get time, training, play, its all for me. I enjoy it and if I didn't, I wouldn't own them. I think like Dogfaeries, I'm missing where you're going to ever enjoy him.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Well, here is what my schedule looks like.

It's daylight so by the 50lb dog on my face I have clearly slept in and need to get up NOW! I throw whatever clothes I find on and head for the door for our 2-3k walk depending on weather and how annoying the rest of the world is. 
We come home I feed the dog, I go to the bathroom, I put coffee on and get dressed. Then I sit on the floor by the dog dish so she will eat. 
Coffee is done so I pour a cup and take the dog outside where I will play fetch while my coffee gets cold.
Then we come inside and Shadow goes to bed-mine- while I have a hot coffee and wake up. Sometimes I get breakfast. More often somewhere around sip number 3 she does something that requires me to put the cup down and attend to her needs-toy under chair-and cup number 2 gets cold.

I vacuum while she "helps". I sweep while she meanders through the dirt and hair piles. I mop up muddy dog prints while she lays where I just mopped. I do laundry while she "helps". I clean the bathroom while she stands in the tub, drops toys in the toilet and inspects my work in a bathroom with barely enough room to towel off.

Now it is time for walk number 2. About 5k. THEN I get lunch, shovelled down my throat so I have time for fetch before crate time. This would be when I used to go to work. When I got home from work she went for another walk/fetch session, then I ate, then bedtime pee for her and I got to settle in for my treasured sleep. Usually from 2am until about daylight.

Somewhere in that fiasco I tried to find time for shower, errands and additional housework/yardwork.

Dogs are adaptable. But to ask a young dog to get no time except what you can spare is, in my mind, unfair.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Muskeg said:


> You'd be surprised how much upper body workout you get playing tug with a high power dog for 10 minutes. I have always been a runner and skier, so the dogs easily join me on those outdoor activities, but the tug-play builds my upper body nicely. I was wondering why I was starting to look like Brandi Chastain, and realized it was all from playing tug with my dogs ... I'm not even kidding.
> 
> So why not do things to work out with the dog, and not leave him behind? A pup shouldn't be doing miles, but there are lots of fun things to do with a pup that will also build muscle for you! Then work your way up. Part of the joy of owning a dog is taking him out for runs and hikes.


This is the truth! You can even do puppy pull ups--- get the dog latched onto the tug then do bicep curls with dog as resistance.

And, when I was taking the Michael Ellis classes, I was like some of this should really be a canine inspired workout video. I mean, I was admittedly out of shape but I got out of breath doing it. I'm not in any better shape now than then LOL...

But. I think working out along side your rascally puppy and with your rascally puppy is totally doable. And then when they are old enough of course they are excellent hiking/walking/running/swimming partners.

OP-- tracking isn't a half bad workout for people and dogs and low impact enough to start any time for puppy. By the time you hike through the field to lay your track, then come back and run your track, it's a fair amount of cardio, especially if your dog weighs 90 lb and pulls hard and.or parts of your track go up and down steep hills :grin2: Ask me what *I* did this morning


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

nicewl said:


> Thanks for everyone who responded, I appreciate it, so some updates: things are a bit better now, I am getting used to him, potty training is pretty good, he didn't poop in home for like a week now, when he wants to poop he starts intense crying so I know it's time to take him out. Sleeping at night is fine, once lights out he knows it's time to sleep. We had training session with professional and he said that my dog is well balanced dog, not scary, not hyper active. However I still can't put in 100% working sessions, even if he knows that I am working and tries to sleep. Main problem is that I can't get my meals in( I work out 6-7 days/week) while working because I don't want to wake him up as I love some peace lol. So I will probably start to crate him in other room while I work. Crate training is going alright, I didn't do anything special just put him in there for few hours every day. There were already few times where he didn't make a sound when I put him in and left home, most of the time there is only few barks and he is silently waiting for me to come back.
> 
> So I have few questions:
> 1) how much of QUALITY time per day grown/adult gsd needs ? I live in an urban area, so no hiking available, we don't have mountains. I can't go to forest daily too as there is none close to me.
> ...


I'm confused. I don't see anything on this schedule about walking the dog, training with the dog, playing with the dog? You just take him out real quick and then put him back up? Did I miss something? Do you walk the dog? 

It's cold here too. You gotta bundle up. I mean it does kind of sound like you just want to take the dog to a bathroom break and then be left alone. I agree, adopt an old, lazy dog, except-- will you be tolerant of helping them age gracefully?


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Well, here is what my schedule looks like.
> 
> It's daylight so by the 50lb dog on my face I have clearly slept in and need to get up NOW! I throw whatever clothes I find on and head for the door for our 2-3k walk depending on weather and how annoying the rest of the world is.
> We come home I feed the dog, I go to the bathroom, I put coffee on and get dressed. Then I sit on the floor by the dog dish so she will eat.
> ...



You just made me tired and feel like a lazy slob..:surprise: :wink2:


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

ksotto333 said:


> You just made me tired and feel like a lazy slob..:surprise: :wink2:


Just dust something real quick. It builds self esteem.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Steve Strom said:


> Just dust something real quick. It builds self esteem.


Dust is a protective covering. Do NOT tell my husband any differently.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Deal, as long as you don't tell my wife that it is. Lol.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Protective coating?.... Hmmm ...New Years resolution, build a better protective coating.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

ksotto333 said:


> You just made me tired and feel like a lazy slob..:surprise: :wink2:



:rofl:

Just think, I had three! Before that I had somewhere between 5 and 9 and before that I had 21 dogs, 7 cats and a chicken named Priscilla!
Throw in a horse or five, a couple of goats...

Crazy Lady right here!

I honestly never really found it difficult to spend time with the dogs, or any of my animals. I multi task well and it's really no big thing to toss a ball while moping. But I understand that some folks aren't nuts and actually have lives. It probably explains though why my child told people he was obedience trained, and why he thought poorly behaved children in his daycare should "kennel up". 


Honestly though? I usually feel like I should do more. And if a person feels like a puppy is taking up too much of their time, well maybe a dog was not the right choice.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Dust is a protective covering. Do NOT tell my husband any differently.


Yes! I protect all my fine furnishings with a thick layer of dust!


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Yes! I protect all my fine furnishings with a thick layer of dust!



I find the German Shepherd hair holds the dust together really well. Makes it easier for the kitten to bat it all around the house. :grin2:


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Steve Strom said:


> Just dust something real quick. It builds self esteem.



I'll get on that right away...:smile2:


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## nicewl (Nov 28, 2018)

Katsugsd said:


> I agree with Wolfy...I see a minimum of 14 hours dedicated to yourself. I try to give my dogs at least 3-4 hours strictly to themselves play time each day. 45 min -1 hour in the morning, plus 1.5-2 hours in the evening. Not to mention the days we have training one-on-one. Weekends are time with dogs for me (6 hours play time plus whatever else we do. Dogs crated minimally for grocery shopping). I work 8 hour days M-F as well (7-3pm) and manage to work out 3 times a week minimum.
> 
> I think you really need to decide if you're willing to sacrifice your personal life for your dog. It's not fair to the dog to be sitting around all day/night. 5-10 minute breaks aren't enough, imo. An older dog or a retired greyhound may appreciate it...or just get a cat.
> 
> Edit to add: what do you mean by "taking dog out" ? Is this 5-10 minutes or 30mins to the whole hour?


That's why I asked, I know that puppy stage not going to last forever and I need to look at the big picture. The only time it's 10 minutes are mornings at the moment, because it's winter and it's cold, all the other walks are around 30mins x 4-5 times. How you not getting tired with so much playing ? If I have 1 hour intense playing session with lots of running around and wrestling I get tired lol




dogfaeries said:


> I honestly think having a GSD is not a good fit for you. You seem to view everything about this puppy as a chore or an inconvenience. Puppies should be great fun, and enrich your life. Yes, they can be a pain in the butt. They are noisy and messy and demanding. It takes a lot of work to turn an unruly puppy into a lovely grown dog. My youngest GSD was such a pill as a puppy, but I enjoyed the heck out of her anyway.


I am already attached to him and I don't see him as inconvenience, I am just looking for a ways to improve my & puppy relationship so both of us can have quality life 




Jax08 said:


> No. It's not. Please return him to the breeder. You are clearly not in the position to have a dog. That puppy is living his life in a crate.


 what are you talking about, he spends only 2 hours daily in a crate and this is only till he grows up




Sabis mom said:


> Well, here is what my schedule looks like.
> 
> It's daylight so by the 50lb dog on my face I have clearly slept in and need to get up NOW! I throw whatever clothes I find on and head for the door for our 2-3k walk depending on weather and how annoying the rest of the world is.
> We come home I feed the dog, I go to the bathroom, I put coffee on and get dressed. Then I sit on the floor by the dog dish so she will eat.
> ...


That's why I posted, he gets time because we play throughout the day and I work only 4 hours per day at the moment, but I know puppy stage not going to last forever and I wanted to know how much time of quality time people dedicate to their grown gsd's




Thecowboysgirl said:


> I'm confused. I don't see anything on this schedule about walking the dog, training with the dog, playing with the dog? You just take him out real quick and then put him back up? Did I miss something? Do you walk the dog?
> 
> It's cold here too. You gotta bundle up. I mean it does kind of sound like you just want to take the dog to a bathroom break and then be left alone. I agree, adopt an old, lazy dog, except-- will you be tolerant of helping them age gracefully?


We walk 5-6 times a day, I guess 2 hours total at the moment. We do play throughout the day, but there is no strict time for that, usually I get tired way faster than he does lol


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

nicewl said:


> That's why I asked, I know that puppy stage not going to last forever and I need to look at the big picture. The only time it's 10 minutes are mornings at the moment, because it's winter and it's cold, all the other walks are around 30mins x 4-5 times. How you not getting tired with so much playing ? If I have 1 hour intense playing session with lots of running around and wrestling I get tired lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay then, I think the big thing you seem to be missing is mental stimulation for the dog. I assume this walking is leash walking? If so, it does maybe sound a little boring for the dog...especially a working line dog.

Here's a thought--you have a working line dog and you seem to be really into fitness, why don't you guys find an agility class? I still don't know/remember how old this puppy is so maybe awhile before you can really be jumping repetitively but there is still foundation stuff that you could be teaching the puppy and it might be a really fun way for you both to get a mental and physical workout without needing nature trails when the pup is mature enough for real agility.

Again tracking- and you can do urban tracking if you aren't near any fields, exercise for both you and dog, mental stimulation, real energy drain on the dog, AND low impact so can do this now.

In my opinion, these are the types of activities that are true quality time with your dog. shepherds LOVE to train and learn stuff, and tend to be much better companions when they are putting those brains to constructive use. 

Some of the people's descriptions on here sound like way more exercise than me and my dogs do daily. At least in the form of walking. I think variety is the spice of canine life...I try to train them all in one or two different sports and some days we don't train and just take a nice long walk. Today it's muddy and nasty and high winds so we took the dogs to a park in town for a leash walk which is unusual for us but they really enjoyed sniffing the whole park. It's only a mile loop on a leash but they are contentedly sleeping now because they got to go somewhere new, see a bunch of stuff they don't always see, sniff, pee, etc. The boy has already tracked twice this week so he's good.

I will do obedience when the weather is really foul, can train indoors. Track whenever it's possible to track (i.e. not snowshoe level snow or below zero or torrential rain). dock diving in the summer. Maybe it's me, not them, who gets bored, but who wants to do the same thing every single day.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

nicewl said:


> That's why I asked, I know that puppy stage not going to last forever and I need to look at the big picture. The only time it's 10 minutes are mornings at the moment, because it's winter and it's cold, all the other walks are around 30mins x 4-5 times. How you not getting tired with so much playing ? If I have 1 hour intense playing session with lots of running around and wrestling I get tired lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also, walking 5-6 times per day, so how long at a time? We do our one walk then the dogs sleep for awhile. Your dog might enjoy one or two longer walks especially to new places, more than a bunch of really short ones? I think my dogs would just be frustrated if they went for a really short leash walk and then got put up again.


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## nicewl (Nov 28, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Okay then, I think the big thing you seem to be missing is mental stimulation for the dog. I assume this walking is leash walking? If so, it does maybe sound a little boring for the dog...especially a working line dog.
> 
> Here's a thought--you have a working line dog and you seem to be really into fitness, why don't you guys find an agility class? I still don't know/remember how old this puppy is so maybe awhile before you can really be jumping repetitively but there is still foundation stuff that you could be teaching the puppy and it might be a really fun way for you both to get a mental and physical workout without needing nature trails when the pup is mature enough for real agility.
> 
> ...


 yeah walking is leash walking, he is only 3.5 months and there isn't really any closed field or something like that so I am afraid to take off leash. As for mental stimulation, yes you are right, it is missing, learning about tracking now





Thecowboysgirl said:


> Also, walking 5-6 times per day, so how long at a time? We do our one walk then the dogs sleep for awhile. Your dog might enjoy one or two longer walks especially to new places, more than a bunch of really short ones? I think my dogs would just be frustrated if they went for a really short leash walk and then got put up again.


 I was told that equal timed walks is better than one long walk, interesting. My walks at the moment are 10mins in the morning as it's cold here, and around 30 minutes other 4-5 walks


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

nicewl said:


> Thecowboysgirl said:
> 
> 
> > Okay then, I think the big thing you seem to be missing is mental stimulation for the dog. I assume this walking is leash walking? If so, it does maybe sound a little boring for the dog...especially a working line dog.
> ...


Tracking is done on a long line so you're fine there.

You can track in parks, college campuses, I even tracked behind the grocery store once this winter, there is some grass and then a big empty parkinglot and I wanted to try hard surface.

Look up AKc tracking club, they usually have a spring clinic for beginners. And if there is a big dog facility they may have an indoor agility ring and carry on thru the winter. 

Even signing up for a group obedience class would be something to do for mental stimulation, bonding, ans you'd be warm


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## Nikka Khrystyne (May 14, 2018)

I have two working line GSD, almost 9 months old. I got them at 8 weeks. Honestly crate training is probably a great idea. And having a routine with them. Also doing simple training such as teaching to sit, wait for food, down. We taught sit and wait for food right away. And usually after a small little session and bit of plan we would crate them for about 1-2 hours so they could nap. Sometimes keeping them out they think it’s time to play. When they’re in the crate with a safe chew toy like a kong, my puppies at that age would pretty much chew on the toy for a bit and then knock out. Also I would take him outside on little walks to tire him out. Seems like he just has a LOT of energy and needs. Good outlet. Mental stimulation is also a good idea. Get a cupcake tray and like 5-6 tennis balls. Hide a treats or food under the balls and let them sniff out the treats. I had to show them once or twice, after that they would go on a hunt. Don’t put treats under all the balls though. It’d definitely work, keeping them entertained both physically and mentally. But also don’t be afraid to crate him and let him know there is a Time and place for everything. Hide and seek is also a very fun game to play if he knows his name already. Just hide behind some doors and call his name and he will come find you.


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