# I can't believe this.



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Sorry folks, I'm having a meltdown right now. A class-A pity party. I was crying so hard at the vet's office I got a bloody nose.

I've lost dogs to DM, hemangiosarcoma, polymyositis, cauda equina, complete system failure caused by multi-year use of pred, possible bleedout from Deramaxx, and "old age". 

The worst I personally experienced was when Niki died from osteosarcoma. It's always so hard to lose a fur kid, but I've always said I NEVER EVER want to go thru that ordeal again as long as I live. The pain could not be controlled by any medication including Duragesic patches and methadone - only amputation of the limb gave him relief.

Kelly's been limping from what I assumed was arthritis (he's been taking Tramadol for problems with arthritis and spondylosis). I took him to the vet today and they took a boat load of x-rays and his doctor is almost 100% sure he has osteosarcoma (it doesn't appear to have spread to his lungs yet). The radiologist will review the x-rays tomorrow, the surgeon will look at them Monday, and he's scheduled for the biopsy Tuesday.

He celebrated his 12th birthday Saturday. He's weakish in the rear and has an elevated ALT problem. Something is causing him to have eye goobers, and is making him chew very gingerly (he had a tooth pulled and complete dental within the past few months). The amoxicillin he's taking for the eye goober/chewing problem has dropped his ALT values to the mid-200's which is still high but not nearly as bad as what it's been before the antibiotic. He's in remission from SIBO.

There's some type of radiation therapy given by a vet group down in Tampa that may help reduce the pain from the osteosarcoma. I haven't done any research yet so can't comment on this option.

IMHO amputation is out of the question given his over all health problems. I know that the pain from osteosarcoma is impossible to control. The radiation may/may not be a short-term solution for keeping him comfortable.

Right now I'm leaning toward allowing him to make the trip to the Bridge when I can no longer offer him a quality life - when the pain can no longer be controlled. I don't know how long this will be. His vet increased his Tramadol from 2 a day to 4-1/2 a day and she's having me add Metacam.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Gayle,

I am SO sorry to hear this. There are some supplements you can give that might help. I will look them up in a bit but I just wanted to say that I am really, really sorry. Every time something new crops up with Chama I worry that it is cancer because that is how I lost my two gsds. Anyway, sending a really big hug your way!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

((K(9(hugs))) to you and prayers for the decisions you have to make...I have that coming in the future with a nearly14 yr old.(not GSD) and it is not easy((


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## TMarie (Jul 6, 2006)

Oh Gayle,

I am so so sorry. Huge ((Hugs)). 
You have been through so much already. Prayers for you and Kelly.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Aw crap. How did you know to do x-rays-you are so good, on top of things-I am always amazed. 

If you want us to do any research and post links, just ask. Right now just know that all his senior pals are pulling for him.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Oh man, I'm sorry Gayle.







Cassidy had some serious pain with her discospondylitis, she would scream getting up off the floor, and once we got a diagnosis though MRI and I did some research, the pain involved was described on one site as "exquisite". Metacam worked for her. Hopefully it will help Kelly too. 

Lots of people cite the side affects of NSAIDs and say they'd never use them, (and the side effects are considerable, up to and including death), but my philosophy is that in extreme circumstances you use what works. With Cassidy her pain was foremost, a constant here today and every day, and if we couldn't control it, euthanasia was the only option, so we had to weigh that against the potential health risks of the only thing that controlled her pain. 

Love him, keep him comfortable, and treasure the time you have with him. And definitely research holistic treatments and supplements, they may help too.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

That reminds me: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/pain/about.htm

They do consultations.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sorry your dog isn't doing well. i'm sure you've taken the best care of him. you also have to take care of yourself so you can take care of your friend and make the best decisions. i have a 7 month old boy on Dermaxx. what is bleed out??? give your friend a pet for me. there for you.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Im really sorry youre going through this and Kelly has these problems.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

What a rough decission! My eldest is getting up there and the younger dog is just three years younger. I'll be facing some of these issues soon but right now chiropratic treatments help wonderfully. I think accupuncture does too when we can get it. I see chiro visits becoming a bi-weekly thing. These issues are gut wrenching - and the worst is trying to figure out what's best when. What I like to remember is that it IS worth the self-doubt as well as the emotional pain. The benefits of living with dogs outweighs the sorrow & pain that's a part of that package. They take a big chunk of you but even so for me it's hardly anything compared to what they give back.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Just checking in on you guys today.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Gayle, I am so sorry to hear this. We lost Kirby, our 2 yo German Shorthair, to osteosarcoma 10 years ago and it was the hardest thing we have ever been through, so I understand what you are going through. I wish you weren't faced with this again.

You do have Kelly's best interest in mind, which is the most loving thing you can do for him if the biopsy is positive. Looking back at the choices we made, amputation, chemo, etc., I think I would make different choices if faced with the disease again.

Please take care of yourself and let us know how he is doing.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I am really sorry to hear this Gayle...it must be so hard for you







Hopefully the metacam and tramadol will give Kelly some relief. I just wanted to tell you that Heidi has been on both medications for over a year now without complications.

Michaela


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

ditto here, wondering how you guys are doing? 

debbie


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Isn't Gainesville closer? I know people who went from Tampa up there when their dog came down with cancer. Just keep him comfortable, you'll do what you know is right when the time comes.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Oh Gayle, I wish I could say something right now that would give you some small comfort. 

You have a lot of friends here, use us.


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## GSD10 (May 20, 2007)

Gayle, so sad that you, Kelly and the rest of the Hooligans are faced with this







Jean is right, all of Kelly's senior buds are sending good vibes


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Oh Gayle, oh no......

I just replied to your post about Ringer, and then to hear about Kelly.....I'm just stunned. 

I know I don't have much help to offer -- you know more about this than I do. Do let us know if there is anything that we can do. 

I bet you're still in shock right now -- I'm so sorry.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Gayle...I am so very sorry......









Hugs to all of you in whatever you choose to do.

Cherri


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

I'm so sorry to read this is a possibility. If it helps at all I'm sending you all good thoughts and cyberhugs.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

First I want to thank everyone for your warm thoughts and prayers for Kelly. I'm sorry I haven't thanked you, I just kept wanting to get more information before posting.

He's had two biopsies. The first, a needle aspiration was inconclusive. It showed some questionable cells. The radiologist feels he may have synovial cell sarcoma. He had a second biopsy, a bone biopsy, and I just got the results back this morning. It was also inconclusive. My vet wants to review everything with the radiologist and another doctor (I forget who). She also wants to take more x-rays in about three weeks.

He's had a lot of problems with his last two "surgical" procedures. The first, a tooth extraction and dental, his heart stopped twice and atropine had to be administered. It took him a while to get back to "normal" - he even had to go to the ER one night. The bone biopsy was done last Tuesday and I had to take him back to the vet twice because he was having such a difficult time recovering. He refused to eat or drink, and was just out of it for four days. IMHO he just can't handle anesthesia. The vet agreed with me that it's too hard on him to do another bone biopsy. In fact, I wonder if he could even survive any type of surgical procedure.

If he has either type of cancer (osteosarcoma or the synovial cell) amputation is recommended which with Kelly is impossible (bad hips, arthritis, etc) in addition to the hard time he has recovering from simplier procedures. 

His limp has gotten better, not nearly as bad as it was when we had the x-rays taken.

My only goal is to give him the best, pain free, quality life I can offer him, and leave it up to God as to how much longer he'll be around.


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## tibvixie101 (Nov 26, 2007)

Hugs and Prayers coming your way!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

UGH! Gayle-the inconclusive stuff makes you crazy doesn't it? I know you have the vets doing everything you can, and that you will as well. And with that whole "treat the animal in front of you" idea he is getting and doing better! I am going to have hope that the inconclusive stuff is because there's no cancer and he's just got some bad arthritis flareup clearing out. Or something like that! 

Please take care.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Have they ruled out a fungal infection? Back when our GSP was x-rayed they said it could either be osteosarcoma or a fungal infection. In our case, there was no doubt it was osteosarcoma after the bone biopsy.

That is encouraging that Kelly's limp is getting better. Our Kirby went from a limp to not using the leg at all by the time the bone biopsy came back.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

Gayle, I'm sorry I missed this post the first time. I don't read the senior sectin that often. I guess I should. Sending hugs to you and Gracie is offering her sloppy kisses!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANUGH! Gayle-the inconclusive stuff makes you crazy doesn't it? I know you have the vets doing everything you can, and that you will as well. And with that whole "treat the animal in front of you" idea he is getting and doing better! I am going to have hope that the inconclusive stuff is because there's no cancer and he's just got some bad arthritis flareup clearing out. Or something like that!
> 
> Please take care.


Thanks. I guess I'm not warm and fuzzy because I went thru this with Niki and it took 3 bone biopsies to confirm the preliminary diagnosis of osteosarcoma. It's difficult to pinpoint even with x-rays. My vet kept having to go to specialists at the university to get the exact location of where to take the sample material and it still took three tries.

But yes, I plan on the "treat the problems in front of you" scenario with his health care. I just can't morally put him thru any more invasive tests than what he's been thur to this point in time. I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, and it all boils down to doing what I "think" is right for Kel. I just pray I'm doing right by him.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: agilegsdsHave they ruled out a fungal infection? Back when our GSP was x-rayed they said it could either be osteosarcoma or a fungal infection. In our case, there was no doubt it was osteosarcoma after the bone biopsy.
> 
> That is encouraging that Kelly's limp is getting better. Our Kirby went from a limp to not using the leg at all by the time the bone biopsy came back.


No, they haven't ruled out a fungal infection. He's on clindamycin right now which is used for bone infections in general, but I assume an actual fungal infection would be treated differently (I read about Valley Fever when Mac got diagnosed with his bone infection).

I know what you mean about osteosarcoma. Niki was limping in February when he was diagnosed. He started walking on three legs shortly after that - maybe 3 or 4 weeks? Then I tried all these different pain meds before finally getting the amputation in early June. I'm still kicking myself for not having the leg amputated in February the second the cancer was confirmed.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Ailyn and Jen thanks for the good thoughts.







And of course the sloppy Gracie kisses are extra special!!!


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Arycrest
> 
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They are always in abundance. Any time you need some, just let me know.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Arycrest... it all boils down to doing what I "think" is right for Kel. <span style="color: #6633FF"> I just pray I'm doing right by him. </span>


There is not even the slightest doubt that you are not doing right by him.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Amen to that. He is in the very best hands.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I have no helpful information. We are just here. I think about you, Kelly and your other kids all the time, praying, hoping, sending our friendship across the continent. 

Lori


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Any idea why the limp is better?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTAny idea why the limp is better?


Again, I want to thank everyone for all the support. It's so nice being able to come somewhere that people understand what's happening and how difficult it is to cope with certain problems.

Lisa, I'm not sure why the limp has improved. I noticed it started getting better after the needle biopsy. 

When Ringer was down with the last bout of pneumonia, they gave him Hill's a/d to entice him to eat. He loved it so much I started mixing it into his kibble every day instead of the EVO canned beef. I also started giving it to Kel when he was having problems because he loved it too. At their ages I really don't care if a food is politically correct or not, if the old guys like it I'll give it to them.

I noticed after Ringer started eating the a/d he seemed to be getting a tad stronger in his rear - nothing earth shaking, just a tiny bit stronger. Simple things like when his foot hit his lead on the floor, he picked up the foot, stepped over it, and placed it back solidly on the floor again and continued walking. Prior to this, the 1/4" lead would have been dragged with his foot until it worked itself free. Little improvements like that.

Anway, the addition of mixing a/d in his kibble is the only thing that has changed in Kelly's life as far as his limp goes (I noticed the change before the addition of the clindamycin).


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Arycrest At their ages I really don't care if a food is politically correct or not, if the old guys like it I'll give it to them.


LOL. Good for Ringer and Kelly! Zamboni has been taking her medicine in small pieces of warmed pizza.







She won't take it otherwise. Old guys (& girls) get their way. It's the secret of the seniors forum. 

Don't let the puppy folks find out.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom... Zamboni has been taking her medicine in small pieces of warmed pizza.
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Good for Zamboni!!! I'd be happy with your pill time too!!! Hope the Hooligans don't read this, we all LOVE pizza.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Arycrest....I noticed after Ringer started eating the a/d he seemed to be getting a tad stronger in his rear - nothing earth shaking, just a tiny bit stronger. Simple things like when his foot hit his lead on the floor, he picked up the foot, stepped over it, and placed it back solidly on the floor again and continued walking. Prior to this, the 1/4" lead would have been dragged with his foot until it worked itself free. Little improvements like that.
> 
> Anway, the addition of mixing a/d in his kibble is the only thing that has changed in Kelly's life as far as his limp goes (I noticed the change before the addition of the clindamycin).


That's just wierd, but there must be something in there (or not in there) that is really working. Great -- it's nice when it works.

With Indy, I tried LOTS of things that were politically correct that were disasters for her - I do understand where you are coming from.

Sure am hoping for continued improvement, all around, and in the back of my brain, hoping somehow, that initial diagnosis has to be mistaken.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Arycrest At their ages I really don't care if a food is politically correct or not, if the old guys like it I'll give it to them.
> ...



















They like to try to control a lot on that puppy forum...jokes on them, eh? 

I am hoping too that he is just trying to drive you crazy Gayle and that he is really doing very well on the inside and the outside.


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## GSD10 (May 20, 2007)

Gayle, 

I haven't had a chance to get on the forum lately. I read the latest and I have to tell you I feel just like you do in many ways. Mas is like Kelly when it come to recovering from surgery. He did manage to get through it in the past because he had the youth factor working for him. I know that if it came down to it now, we would not fair as well. I decided when Mas reached seniorhood that I would not do anything that required surgery because he just would not be able to manage it. Nor would I if I lost him on the operating table. 

In the last few weeks I have come to also realize that I have been over the top protecting him from getting hurt or re-injuring his hind end. Poor guy just wants to chase his freakin kong. For Mas that is quality of life...not me chasing after him to get the ball to put it away, or stopping him from having a play date with his pals









Oh and yup...little extra treats that he never would have gotten before now he gets. They deserves it and they have earned it









Whatever you do for Kelly, know that you have lots of support here


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Sorry I didn't get back and say THANKS for your last replies.

I took Kelly up to have his elbow x-rayed today. The vet still feels it's probably synovial cell sarcoma (cure is amputation which is impossible). The radiologist won't be there until a week from Monday so I'm not sure what she'll say about the new film.

Kelly's not limping like he was, goes up and down stairs, gambols around the yard, and seems to feel good for an old man. He's still taking his pain meds, but finished his clindamycin so we'll see what happens if the limp come back. He's still eating the a/d with his dinner.

I can't remember if I told you all I stopped giving him the Denamarin for his liver ALT problem - I just didn't see it doing any good.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

Gayle,
i hope and pray things will improve some for your guy! its very frustrating to say the least when dealing with seniors and their issues. believe me i'm there with ya, i am watching my senior slowly decline and its Killing me!

debbie


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Gayle, 
Glad to hear the limping is improving. W'ere still sending Kelly all our prayers and love that things stay improved as he goes off his meds.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Finally, I may have the FINAL ANSWER to Kelly's problem!!!















He's had tests, etc. all inconclusive and the vet and radiologist now believe he has bad arthritis in his elbow - not cancer of any kind.

He currently is taking Tramadol, Metacam and Dasuquin for for arthritis and Amoxicillin to help keep his ALT values down.















He's still eating a normal diet, the swelling in his elbow and the limping got better, and he seems to be happy and content!!!


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## GSD10 (May 20, 2007)

Gayle that is great news!!! A celebration worthy of a round of burgers and ice cream yah?







Well great in that it is not cancer!

I read about Dasuquin in Mas's post. I am most interested in learning more about it.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Wow, dodged a bullet there -- how exhausted from worry do you feel? Or is it just pure elation at this point?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I hurt my back so we're having to hold off on the burger celebration, but it's coming. I feel good enough I'm sure I'll be getting out tomorrow and will definitely be picking up the gang a bag of double cheeseburgers









Yeah, Lisa, I agree it's exhausting worrying about these old guys, waiting for tests, not know what's happening, frustration, etc. Of course I was thrilled that Kelly's problem is not cancer since there isn't anything I would do for it (no amputation). Having three seniors is a blessing, but it's still mentally difficult sometimes.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ArycrestI..... Having three seniors is a blessing, but it's still mentally difficult sometimes.


My 35-lb'er is going to be 11 soon, and Max the GSD will be 7 years soon. It's very likely that they will hit those senior years at roughly the same time because of their different sizes. I can see how that would be really tough. Heck, it's tough now with all of their issues. You must have lots of good karma coming your way


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: ArycrestI hurt my back so we're having to hold off on the burger celebration, but it's coming.


Cheese pizza is easily delivered! PM me your address and we'll send some right over! How many do you need? Two dozen ought to do it?









THEN, Kelly has to watch his intake. Extra calories are hard on arthritis. But first, a celebration!!!!!









Ah, the power of puppy prayers! Hallelujah!







Gayle, I am so so happy for you! What a relief!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom...
> Cheese pizza is easily delivered! PM me your address and we'll send some right over! How many do you need? Two dozen ought to do it?
> 
> 
> ...










Bruiser's addicted to pizza. He'd vote for pizza every meal if he had his way. I hope he never learns to speed dial PAPA JOHN'S or DOMINOS








Here's a picture Bruiser's breeder took of him and the Purloined Pizza when he was about 7 weeks old.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Just saw this!!!!

I'll raise a burger in salute to Kelly.


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