# German show lines



## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Hello!
I am conducting initial research into german shepherd lines, with an eye towards getting a puppy in the future.
I am most interested in the german show line "look" simply because I like the heavier boned, less angular characteristics. I do not intend to show.
The highest considerations are health and temperament. I will not necessarily engage in shutzhund so I do not want a high prey drive.
I am looking for a companion dog who will play well with other dogs.
The puppy will go to daily doggy day care four days a week when I go into the office, staying home with me on Wednesdays. Temperament should allow for play with other dogs, accepting lots of different human and dog interaction, and having an "off" button when I have to work at home.
I expect that I will be conducting about one and a half to two years' research into the breed and the different lines before I actually get the puppy. During this time I will be studying the breed and the lines.

My question at the moment - I am looking for a breeder of merit who has german show lines. Aesthetically I prefer the look. I prefer show lines to avoid the high prey drive necessary for working lines. I need a companion line.

Are there any leads, preferably in the Delmarva area (Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, West Virginia, Pennsylvania)? I am prepared to travel to pick up a puppy but I will not have him shipped to me.

Color preference - dark/black or sable.
Sex - male 

Thank you so much for any assistance or leads that you may provide. 
Thank you for reading.
Lil


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I have seen one German Show dog who came in sable. Ever. I wish there were more, though.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Try Chris and Joe Stumpf in Maryland, both work in DC - Chris at German Embassy, Joe at White House - so they are in your area...

Vom Silbersee German Shepherd Dogs

their kennel is vom Silbersee - they may not have pups right now, but can either get you want you want or point you in the right direction..they have both working and showline dogs - they concentrated on sable showlines, and do blacks with high show ratings (and work/show crossed maybe!!!) as well

Lee


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

wolfstraum said:


> Try Chris and Joe Stumpf in Maryland, both work in DC - Chris at German Embassy, Joe at White House - so they are in your area...
> 
> Vom Silbersee German Shepherd Dogs
> 
> ...


Ohhh, sable showlines! Gorgeous!


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> Try Chris and Joe Stumpf in Maryland, both work in DC - Chris at German Embassy, Joe at White House - so they are in your area...
> 
> Vom Silbersee German Shepherd Dogs
> 
> ...


 
LOL!!!! I was just looking at your site and noticed your sable female and your black male.

Color and sex are secondary to temperament and health.

I was about to contact you privately. 

Are your dogs too possessive of a prey drive to do well in a companion home? 

Seriously, I was about to contact you!!!!

Lil


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Wild Wolf said:


> I have seen one German Show dog who came in sable. Ever. I wish there were more, though.


Oh I simply like the darker colors, but I do prefer the less angulated German show lines.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Wild Wolf said:


> Ohhh, sable showlines! Gorgeous!


OMG Onyx!!! :wub:


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Some sable dogs that show well or are of showlines:
SG1 Udo von den blauen Bergen
2X VA2 VA1(ÖST) Timo vom Berrekasten
VA Waiko vom Schaumbergerland
V Baldur von der Fichtenspitze
V Metin vom Stadtfeld
VA (F) ULK du Fils de la Montagne
VA RUS,V 50 (HZS) Thor vom Friedenspark

Notice a lot of these going back to Timo


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I've hear the modern DDRs described as sable showlines. (no jab intended)


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Penny! :wub:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Also, Carolina has puppies and she is near you.
Johnson-Haus German Shepherds, Frederick Maryland
I have no idea if they are already spoken for, but you can take a look 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...195429-puppies-first-time-out-they-loved.html


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

Cindy at www.elitegermanshepherds.com gets some great dogs from prominent lines
She's even had top pick of litter for sale from top of line German sires...


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

WOW thank you everyone!!!!! So many great leads!!!
Much appreciated....
let the studies begin!!!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ALL of my pups are companion dogs first and working dogs hopefully.....they are in both active pet homes and sport homes....

take a look at the thread 'Kira at 13 months' - that is one of mine   very happy with her....we will be breeding her in about 16-20 months after she has the HGH and maybe the IPO1.....

Have a super nice young black female that just got her BH in New York....probably be bred in 12 to 18 months -maybe to a littermate of Kira....

Both these dogs are in "companion" homes...

Lee


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> ALL of my pups are companion dogs first and working dogs hopefully.....they are in both active pet homes and sport homes....
> 
> take a look at the thread 'Kira at 13 months' - that is one of mine   very happy with her....we will be breeding her in about 16-20 months after she has the HGH and maybe the IPO1.....
> 
> ...


Awesome!!! Thank you. I'll keep in touch with you, if you don't mind, while I do some reading and frequent the forum.

Temperament wise, do you feel a concern about a GSD in a well supervised doggie day care situation? Straying a bit from the original topic but my current dogs go to doggie day care four days a week. I work from home on Wednesdays.




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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> ALL of my pups are companion dogs first and working dogs hopefully.....they are in both active pet homes and sport homes....
> 
> take a look at the thread 'Kira at 13 months' - that is one of mine   very happy with her....we will be breeding her in about 16-20 months after she has the HGH and maybe the IPO1.....
> 
> ...


FOUND KIRA!!!!!

Dear Lord she is EXACTLY the GSD I DREAM about!!!!!!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lilliam said:


> FOUND KIRA!!!!!
> 
> Dear Lord she is EXACTLY the GSD I DREAM about!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I foresee you spending a lot of happy time with us, Liliam.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> take a look at the thread 'Kira at 13 months' - that is one of mine   very happy with her....we will be breeding her in about 16-20 months after she has the HGH and maybe the IPO1.....
> 
> Lee


Is it too early to get on the wait list for a Kira puppy? :wild:


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LOL LOL LOL This is my "dream litter"! Bred for ME......I kept 3 pups for myself - Kira, Kyra and Kougar......Kira is with Meghan on a training/breeding partnership and showing awesome talent for HGH, and Kougar is with Leesa [G-burg] same way but doing IPO - I had a bad bad car accident and can't do ANYTHING much at all now.....Kyra is here with my co-owner of Hexe and she is being trained too....then I have I-Bengal who might be even better looking! And then I have my Basha family females Hexe and an interest in Furi through a future daughter....whole program based on 2 female families and their sire lines peripherially....

so no - it is never too early to talk about getting a puppy   

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

With Waiko being VA and a lot of Arlett dogs being sable they are really not as rare as people tend to think.

There are also some sable working line dogs that have showy-er conformation, like Boy von Zorra.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> I foresee you spending a lot of happy time with us, Liliam.


LOL!!! Me too!!!

Let me tell you a bit about my philosophy about dogs....they are a family member. There is a commitment for the next fifteen or so years. There is no rehoming, there is no taking back. Once a puppy is in the car with me I am committed to that puppy in the almost same way that I was committed to my own children when they were conceived. 
Therefore, before embarking on a new breed, HUGE amounts of study is needed. That includes the things that are most important to me: health and temperament. I prefer a color, I prefer a sex, but those two things are not the top priorities.
So....when I got my first border collie I went as far as to visit sheepherding facilities WITHOUT A DOG. Went to trials WITHOUT A DOG. Bought spectator tickets for herding clinics. For almost one year before getting Cassie, my first border collie.
Max was an equal study. I remember when I contacted the breeder I ultimately went with....TEMPERAMENT. Color was negotiable, although I preferred "redheads." Sex also, although I preferred males. But the ability to have a structurally sound dog with the correct temperament for my life was not negotiable. Max turned out to be perfect, and that was a result of the right breeder, not me. 
So.....I will be here asking loads of questions. When my Billy leaves me I will have put money down and I will not have to make that decision when I will be too distraught to think straight. The decision made in a logical manner now, with study, will serve me when I am too emotional to think.
I hope people here don't get sick of me!!!!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lilliam said:


> Therefore, before embarking on a new breed, HUGE amounts of study is needed. That includes the things that are most important to me: health and temperament. I prefer a color, I prefer a sex, but those two things are not the top priorities.
> So....when I got my first border collie I went as far as to visit sheepherding facilities WITHOUT A DOG. Went to trials WITHOUT A DOG. Bought spectator tickets for herding clinics. For almost one year before getting Cassie, my first border collie.
> The decision made in a logical manner now, with study, will serve me when I am too emotional to think.
> I hope people here don't get sick of me!!!!


We love new members who think this way. I am sure most of us wish everyone took your approach. 
Welcome to the forum. I should have said that first, LOL.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> We love new members who think this way. I am sure most of us wish everyone took your approach.
> Welcome to the forum. I should have said that first, LOL.


Thank you....trust me, it served me well when I got the most obsessive compulsive breed of dog I've ever had....a border collie!!!! I was prepared for the *INTENSITY* because I'd seen it for almost a year.

And thank you for the welcome!!!!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Why can't all new puppy buyers be like you!


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> Why can't all new puppy buyers be like you!


 
oh WOW thank you!!!!!!!!!!!:blush::blush::blush:

I've been around border collie rescue and I've seen what uninformed buyers can do to a good dog. A good working dog might not be a fit for a suburban home. Which is why I was thinking of show lines....traditionally, show lines have lesser prey drives than working lines. 
The puppy would be a companion, so a dog with an intense working drive would not be a fit, no matter how gorgeous the dog or the line. So my responsibility to the dog is to learn the breed first, narrow down to the purpose and narrow down to the breeder.
If I can find a dog who plays well with other dogs, does well in doggy day care, who won't terrorize my cats or the children in my family, and who happens to be a sable or black male, then I have found the perfect dog for me. For someone who wants to compete in schutzhund, it might not be a good dog, for me it would be perfect.
With two years or so before my Billy leaves me, I can do the required study.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Excellent - I have no doubt that you will find what you are looking for and by the sound of it, any dog would be VERY lucky to be in your care


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

One thing no one has commented on is that many GSDs will not enjoy going to doggy daycare once they are mature adults--they'd rather be home. They do not always enjoy playing with new dogs--just their friends.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Solid point Christine. Didn't even pick up on that. Yes, all of my dogs are content to play and interact with members of their family/pack. They have no need or reason to interact or play with other dogs. All the GSDs I've had have been perfectly content to be with their person and their pack. Never saw the reason to put them in a group environment so they can be friends with strange dogs. Even on 10-12hr work days, the crew stays at home. The ones that get along are loose. The others or fosters are crated/kenneled. No problems


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lilliam said:


> Thank you....trust me, it served me well when I got the most obsessive compulsive breed of dog I've ever had....a border collie!!!! I was prepared for the *INTENSITY* because I'd seen it for almost a year.
> 
> And thank you for the welcome!!!!


I was going to mention that. 

I think I would not be a good Border Collie owner. A GSD would probably be considered a step down in work load, LOL.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> Solid point Christine. Didn't even pick up on that. Yes, all of my dogs are content to play and interact with members of their family/pack. They have no need or reason to interact or play with other dogs. All the GSDs I've had have been perfectly content to be with their person and their pack. Never saw the reason to put them in a group environment so they can be friends with strange dogs. Even on 10-12hr work days, the crew stays at home. The ones that get along are loose. The others or fosters are crated/kenneled. No problems


So you don't think a dog left at home for twelve hours a day will be bored? Or missing human interaction?


Not a challenge, an honest question.


I know Max craves human interaction and interaction with other doggies, but that's a golden retriever. Billy, the border collie, also loves his days at doggy day care.

I would save me heaps of money to have the GSD stay at home, but I would feel horrible about leaving with Max and leaving him behind.

(all these questions are the reason I joined early....I need to have a plan in place long before the day comes)


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Let me explain my schedule a bit....

Mondays and Tuesdays, out of the house by 6:00 a.m. and home, depending on traffic on 270, around 7:30 and sometimes on horrible days even 8:00.

Wednesdays work from home.

Thursdays and Fridays same as Monday and Tuesday.

I've always had the border collies in doggie day care when I moved here, since the hours were so much longer than in California. When Max came it was a natural progression to have him go to doggy day care. Max and Billy love the experience there....they dance when the leashes come out, begin whining when I turn the corner, and Billy talks the entire time he's being led in the back. They greet the day camp handlers as if they were long lost family members, every single morning.

I naturally expected that the GSD would also go to doggy day care. But in two different threads, my introductory thread and this one, folks have expressed the opinion that a GSD would not like and or do well in doggy day care. 

I hate the idea of leaving a dog alone and unsupervised for twelve hours. I suppose I can get ADT and keep an eye on him through installed electronic monitoring. But I would feel guilty about walking out with an excited Max and asking the GSD to stay. Right now I spend $175 for every seven days of doggy day care and there would be a significant saving, but it's not something I was planning to save money on. In other words, I wasn't planning to save corners at the expense of the dog's happiness.

On the other hand, a GSD is a multipurpose dog, with protection "baked into" the DNA. So in a manner of speaking, a GSD being left at home would be doing his "protection job"?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Many GSDs do well in doggy daycare their first 6-24 months. But as they mature, they will often (but not always!!!) start to not play well with the daycare group. It really depends on the dog and on the daycare.

I have a few of my puppy buyers who can still take their mature adults to doggy daycare and I have just as many more who have had to stop going to dog parks or doggy daycare. Others have said that their dogs go to daycare and don't play--they just hang out.

Based on my own GSDs, I'll say they don't enjoy playing with "strangers"--they want to be friends first and that usually means knowing the other dog(s) for more than just half an hour. 

It's just going to depend on your dog--and how the daycare handles their dog groups.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Although I wouldn't prefer it, and my husband won't allow it (too many critters coming inside) our foster home uses a dog door and securely fenced yard quite successfully as she's got about the same crazy work schedule you do.

I don't work currently outside the home, although doctor visits and shopping keep me well occupied (my son is disabled) so I don't worry quite so much about the dogs being locked up for long periods of time.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> Although I wouldn't prefer it, and my husband won't allow it (too many critters coming inside) our foster home uses a dog door and securely fenced yard quite successfully as she's got about the same crazy work schedule you do.
> 
> I don't work currently outside the home, although doctor visits and shopping keep me well occupied (my son is disabled) so I don't worry quite so much about the dogs being locked up for long periods of time.


 
OK...now I'm going to be embarrassed when you see how psychotic I am about my dogs....

Even in my fenced yard, my dogs are supervised when outside. 

I know...that's ridiculous. And you might laugh. But my ex once left the back gate open and when I let the dogs out they, of course, went outside and were having a stroll in the neighborhood. Thank GOD I had put recall whistles on them, and of course, they immediately returned.

After that day (no, I didn't actually kill him, but he IS my EX husband) I always go out with them.

That's how psychotic I am.

I'm sorry. Embarrasing.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Many GSDs do well in doggy daycare their first 6-24 months. But as they mature, they will often (but not always!!!) start to not play well with the daycare group. It really depends on the dog and on the daycare.
> 
> I have a few of my puppy buyers who can still take their mature adults to doggy daycare and I have just as many more who have had to stop going to dog parks or doggy daycare. Others have said that their dogs go to daycare and don't play--they just hang out.
> 
> ...


Understood. So it's a function of temperament, drive, and maturity. 
So the answer is to remain vigilant in possible changes in personality at maturity.
Does neutering age play a role?

Oh dear....another line of questioning...contracts, neutering age requirements, and effect of neutering on growth plates....maybe that's an entirely different thread....:wild:


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

BlackthornGSD said:


> Many GSDs do well in doggy daycare their first 6-24 months. But as they mature, they will often (but not always!!!) start to not play well with the daycare group. It really depends on the dog and on the daycare.
> 
> I have a few of my puppy buyers who can still take their mature adults to doggy daycare and I have just as many more who have had to stop going to dog parks or doggy daycare. Others have said that their dogs go to daycare and don't play--they just hang out.
> 
> ...


 
OH DEAR LORD I was just on your site!!!!!!!!!!!! You have sables!!!!! AND BLACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you work with BCS?!?!?!?!?!?!?

And you work with BC?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??

OH DEAR LORD OH DEAR LORD OH DEAR LORD......:wild::wild::wild::wild::wild::wild:


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You do realize that Show Lines are almost uniformily black and tan? The solid black and sable dogs you are drooling over (and with reason  ) are working lines.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Very much agree with what Christine said.

I have five GSDs of varying lineage and backgrounds. The ONLY dogs still interested in playing with strange dogs are my two puppies (10 months and 7 months). My adults have no desire AT ALL to interact with strange dogs.

My bitch can be a huge jerk to strange dogs, and my male largely ignores other dogs. They are both very social with humans, but they have no desire to have "doggy friends". Heck, even within their own family unit they discriminate.

Strauss has no need for any of the other dogs at all. Quite honestly, he could have probably gone his whole life never meeting another dog and been perfectly happy. 

Mirada only likes the other dogs so she can be a bossy wench 

Wesson is a suck up, and loves to play with everybody, so she could potentially be a good "daycare dog" with the right group, but she's kinda squishy soft, and doesn't like to be yelled at (by people or dogs).

Vixie and Mahler play together frequently, and greatly enjoy each others company.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Lilliam said:


> Even in my fenced yard, my dogs are supervised when outside.
> 
> I know...that's ridiculous. And you might laugh.
> That's how psychotic I am.



Then add me to the Psychotic Club. 
Hans is always with me when outside, *and* on a leash or long lead.:crazy:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> You do realize that Show Lines are almost uniformily black and tan? The solid black and sable dogs you are drooling over (and with reason  ) are working lines.


Shhhh... she doesn't need to know she's being inexorably drawn toward the dark side....muahahahahaaaaaa:silly:


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> You do realize that Show Lines are almost uniformily black and tan? The solid black and sable dogs you are drooling over (and with reason  ) are working lines.


I sent a PM regarding this so not to call her out in public


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

:wild::wild::wild::wild::wild::wild::wild:

confusion overtakes.....must......leave....laptop......

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

LOL, no worries Lilliam - confusing the lines is a common newbie thing - 

You'll eventually wrap your mind around it all.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> You do realize that Show Lines are almost uniformily black and tan? The solid black and sable dogs you are drooling over (and with reason  ) are working lines.


OK, back to the drawing board....

I guess there are two different things going on in my head

1) Temperament and health
2) Look
3) Color

Main thing above all is health. Structurally sound. Then temperament. These are non negotiable. I need a dog who will handle different environments with aplomb. And because I am around a lot of people who have dogs, there can be no dog aggression. Generally, in other breeds I have known, the show lines are less driven than the working lines. So when I said I wanted show lines it was as a nod to the temperament needs....a calm dog who handles new situations with aplomb, with confidence, and who doesn't exhibit aggression. I have a large circle of friends, some have children, I have grown children. I also have cats and ferrets. The ferrets are not a problem since they come out when the dogs are crated, as I did with the border collies and with Max, who is terribly afraid of my wee beastie Gracie. 

As far as the look - I prefer the less angulated look that I find in the German lines. I prefer a straighter back and larger bone. From my initial studies, it appears that the German lines have both heavier bone and straighter backs. Did I get that wrong? Is it the other way around?

Lastly, color. I love dark german shepherds. I did not know that show lines are black and tan and working lines are sable or black.

So....first noob mistake has been identified and in the process of being corrected....

Let me try this again....

I am actually looking for a German type of dog, with a straighter back and less angulation in the croup/rear leg, lesser prey drive, and I would LOVE a sable or a black.

Is that closer to reality or am I still getting confused???:crazy:

I wand Oda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or Kira!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Then you are looking for a working line.
The show lines, German included, have more angulation.

Also, working lines come in all colors. My boy is black and tan, closer to red, actually.

Chris Wild has great info here:
http://www.wildhauskennels.com/gsdtypes.htm


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Lilliam said:


> Understood. So it's a function of temperament, drive, and maturity.
> So the answer is to remain vigilant in possible changes in personality at maturity.


I'd say this is a perfect explanation. I've raised several GSD's from puppies, all (except one) were fine with strange dogs until they hit maturity. Then I had to be really careful who they were introduced to. Djenga was the exception, she was fearful of dogs from a young age and that never really changed. Otherwise, her temperament is really nice. She's never met a person she didn't like.

All of my dogs are pets, although I do kennel/crate and rotate since they are bitchy girls. Kessy is the one that I don't think just ANYONE could handle. She is super busy, always on the move, even in the house. It's grown on me, but it'd probably drive a lot of people nuts! But otherwise...she's absolutely amazing. 

All of my others are better able to settle and relax. 

You're definitely doing the right thing by starting early with your research. It's also really important to go out and MEET some dogs/breeders so you can learn what you like. There are some people whose opinion I do trust - but a lot of people on the internet like to blow smoke. For example - one person I know has a blog and she talks about her dogs like they're the best working dogs on the planet. In person...the dogs have very little working ability and are spooky. It's not anyone on this forum, I am just saying - take what you read with a grain of salt


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

Yeah I'm starting to see that getting in here this early was a good idea. There is a lot more to GSD than just a "breed." It's true for nearly all breeds, but this is wholly unfamiliar. 

I'm glad I'm going to be lurking around here for quite a while.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

if you are in DC - then you should get out and see some training.....Leesa and Lynn train up near Clarksville MD - before the accident, I trained down there as well....Kira's brother Kougar is there with Leesa.....you should get out to their group to watch - there are mostly working line GSDs, a few Dobes, Mals and a showline GSD 

Lee


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Lilliam said:


> OK...now I'm going to be embarrassed when you see how psychotic I am about my dogs....
> 
> Even in my fenced yard, my dogs are supervised when outside.
> 
> ...


No, not at all. I agree!
We aren't quite that 'psychotic'  but I hate leaving mine out when I'm gone. I have a few exceptions, the GSD can stay out while we're gone if it's nice out, not windy or rainy. 
That's about it. Nobody else stays outside while we're gone, and not for long periods when we're home. We're way out in the country so it's not as bad as city dwelling. 
I'd worry the whole time I was gone if I was my foster mom, she lives in town 

BTW I understand the "look" of a dog you're searching for, and I agree you want a German Showline. That's what we are leaning towards, preferably one with medium drive for trainability and darker coloration  We do want "just a pet" so the drive is only important in that I've found our lower-drive (seemingly) American line pet dog (he was a stray) difficult to train due to lower drives.


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## Lilliam (Dec 1, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> if you are in DC - then you should get out and see some training.....Leesa and Lynn train up near Clarksville MD - before the accident, I trained down there as well....Kira's brother Kougar is there with Leesa.....you should get out to their group to watch - there are mostly working line GSDs, a few Dobes, Mals and a showline GSD
> 
> Lee


I would LOVE THAT!!!

Specifics, as to where and when???


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Kaos, Kira's littermate - my two favorite picture of her to date.
She is a companion - we're doing nothing formal.
I would be dimes to dollars that she would not be happy going to doggie day care, she seems very content with me and Dante (he's almost 9)

I have the luxury of working from home most days and so the potty training etc wasn't an issue for me here. 

By the way, I first reached out to Lee in 2003ish and just got my Wolfstraum puppy this year (For a number of different reasons) !!

About 8 months old









And about 12ish weeks old


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

She is beautiful Barb :wub: Being a companion first and foremost is the most important role a GSD can have. Anything else is just extra.


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