# Sales Contract and Guarantee...Bit excessive?



## kay88 (May 27, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I was looking at some breeders in Canada and a few looked interesting but I was a bit put off by some of their contracts and applications. One requested very personal information such as whether or not someone has mental illness in the home :crazy: Another one had a contract that stated if you spayed/neutered the dog before 2 years, didn't feed it a raw diet (oh and keep those receipts to prove it ), not to use halti's unless the breeder tells you to, allow your dog to pull on the leash causing it to gag would void your warranty.

Now I do understand the need to place a dog in a good home and asking someone questions about their lifestyle, experience with GSDs, etc and ensuring the dog is not just left outside or fed poor food but this seems a bit over the top??? Or am I just being sensitive???


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Way over the top for me! I will feed what I want, train how and with what and with whom I want. If a breeder doesn't like it they are welcome not to sell me a dog but I would never buy a dog with all these clauses in the contract.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

That's a heck of a vetting process. lol


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I can understand the mental illness question as this could have direct bearing on the safety of the dog and on the ability of the family to properly care for it. So that could be a legitimate concern of the breeder, especially if they had a bad experience in the past.

I don't agree with putting stipulations such as food, training equipment, etc... in the contract. To me that is too restrictive. Once the puppy goes home, it is no longer the breeder's dog, it is the owner's dog. If the breeder is that concerned about food and training it would IMO be better to thoroughly discuss those things with potential buyers upfront and then only sell to those who are like minded in those respects rather than trying to force people to do things that they aren't comfortable with or knowledgeable about just to keep their warranty intact.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

kay88 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was looking at some breeders in Canada and a few looked interesting but I was a bit put off by some of their contracts and applications. One requested very personal information such as whether or not someone has mental illness in the home :crazy: Another one had a contract that stated if you spayed/neutered the dog before 2 years, didn't feed it a raw diet (oh and keep those receipts to prove it ), not to use halti's unless the breeder tells you to, allow your dog to pull on the leash causing it to gag would void your warranty.
> 
> Now I do understand the need to place a dog in a good home and asking someone questions about their lifestyle, experience with GSDs, etc and ensuring the dog is not just left outside or fed poor food but this seems a bit over the top??? Or am I just being sensitive???


They should keep these dogs themselves if they do not trust anyone else. If I purchase a dog it should be mine and if the breeder doesn't trust me, well, there are more pups from other breeders. It sounds like some rescue contracts.


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

kay88 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was looking at some breeders in Canada and a few looked interesting but I was a bit put off by some of their contracts and applications. One requested very personal information such as whether or not someone has mental illness in the home :crazy: Another one had a contract that stated if you spayed/neutered the dog before 2 years, didn't feed it a raw diet (oh and keep those receipts to prove it ), not to use halti's unless the breeder tells you to, allow your dog to pull on the leash causing it to gag would void your warranty.
> 
> Now I do understand the need to place a dog in a good home and asking someone questions about their lifestyle, experience with GSDs, etc and ensuring the dog is not just left outside or fed poor food but this seems a bit over the top??? Or am I just being sensitive???


What titles does this breeder carry on the bloodline >? Are these all 5 figure champs. If not, I got exactly what I was looking 4...


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Meh, if they're still able to sell their dogs even with such a contract. All the power to them. I'd also question how easily that's enforceable. I'd never purchase a dog with that many restrictions on it, I'd actually never purchase a dog with ANY restrictions on it. It's way too easy to find a good breeder, producing amazing dogs, from titled parents, that doesn't have any restrictions on the dogs.

Remember, the care a breeder takes in vetting their potential customers doesn't say anything about the quality of their dogs or their breeding practices.


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## kay88 (May 27, 2013)

> Way over the top for me! I will feed what I want, train how and with what and with whom I want.


That was what my thinking was as well...



> It sounds like some rescue contracts.


 I know what you mean, a rescue in my area includes statements such as they retain the right to inspect the animal at any time and you need to have written approval before euthanizing the animal if sick etc 



> Remember, the care a breeder takes in vetting their potential customers doesn't say anything about the quality of their dogs or their breeding practices.


Actually it made me wonder how sound their animals are if they appear to be looking for all sorts of excuses to invalidate the warranty (although honestly I wouldn't return a dog because of health issues anyway)...but I was concerned I was just being sensitive about it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It sounds like someone had a pup bite a person with a mental problem in the family, and had other pups that developed some problems like cancer, digestive problems, or hip/elbow problems.

All breeders sooner or later will produce some serious health, structural, or even temperament problems. It sounds like this breeder will, most likely, blame the owners for their method of care, and unless you have receipts that PROVE the dog is eating the diet that they want the dog to eat, and prove that you have not allowed the dog to pull (how?) their health warranty isn't worth the parchment it is typed on.

I would pass.

Breeders _should _educate and encourage buyers to raise and train the puppy in the way that is successful in their lines, but to demand it, and to void a warranty due to a list of ordinary environmental things, is over the top. 

Requiring a diagnosis, or second opinion with a specialist, certain tests or certifying agencies for some conditions, is reasonable.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

They asked you about your mental health? I would "almost" be inclined to say that's borderline illegal, but its probably just an oversight (pretty sure there's a law about the right to privacy somewhere). I think a more appropriate question would be, "Have you ever been conflicted of any crimes against animals?". There are many mental health issues that are known to be less severe when someone interacts with an animal/animals on a daily basis. They say that animals help people in dealing with things like depression and anxiety. Hopefully I am not alone on this one lol...if so, my apologies ahead of time. Maybe in Canada it's different...


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

I meant "convicted" of any crimes against animals...Guess I'm not smart enough to figure out how to edit my posts yet lol


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## anitram (Feb 28, 2014)

I think a lot of it sounds excessive and from a legal point of view (I'm a lawyer), essentially unenforceable anyway. First, how are they going to monitor that you're, for example, feeding raw? Come to your house and check every day? And then what, repossess the dog? Commence legal action that's going to cost them tens of thousands of bucks? I mean, let's get real.

Where in Canada are you? I recently got a pup from a great breeder who was wonderful to deal with and didn't have a contract full of over-the-top clauses.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

anitram said:


> I think a lot of it sounds excessive and from a legal point of view (I'm a lawyer), essentially unenforceable anyway. First, how are they going to monitor that you're, for example, feeding raw? Come to your house and check every day? And then what, repossess the dog? Commence legal action that's going to cost them tens of thousands of bucks? I mean, let's get real.
> 
> Where in Canada are you? I recently got a pup from a great breeder who was wonderful to deal with and didn't have a contract full of over-the-top clauses.


My guess is that they will be able to bully an owner out of not pursuing any type of warranty in the event the pup has a problem that is supposed to be covered, by the owner not being able to prove that they jumped all their hoops. It is kind of mean really, because when the puppy does have a genetic problem, then they start asking the questions, is he intact? When did you get him neutered? Did you use a halti? What are you feeding -- well, that's your problem, these dogs will get dysplasia if you feed them grain, that food has grain in it, and so forth. 

It just seems like someone who is a little too savvy when it comes to covering their butt on their health guaranty.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would pass. I can understand the mental health issues but once they start dictating food I'm out. There was a breeder in FL I was very interested in but if you didn't give a certain supplement and food the contract was void. Just not into being micromanaged.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Girl_Loves_Hydraulics said:


> They asked you about your mental health? I would "almost" be inclined to say that's borderline illegal, but its probably just an oversight (pretty sure there's a law about the right to privacy somewhere). I think a more appropriate question would be, "Have you ever been conflicted of any crimes against animals?". There are many mental health issues that are known to be less severe when someone interacts with an animal/animals on a daily basis. They say that animals help people in dealing with things like depression and anxiety. Hopefully I am not alone on this one lol...if so, my apologies ahead of time. Maybe in Canada it's different...


Yes, I am sketched out by the mental health clause. Seems like discrimination...


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

All they say is if you do those things, it voids the guarantee on the dog. They are saying basically that they will guarantee the dog IF you do these things.

So far as mental illness, they may have sold to someone who had a family member with serious delusions that caused them to act oddly around the dog = bad results and they do not want to place a dog in such a situation. They do want to know the situation their pups will be facing. It helps select an appropriate pup (some pups in a litter will be high drive, others very intense + drivey, and yet others not give a rip about most everything.)


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## Rottendog (Mar 6, 2014)

I can see like several of the others, where they may have had a bad experience with someone in the home not being of sound mind. However, that is an over the top question. I don't think any breeder has any business going there. I think they should make a judgement of stability from their correspondence and hopefully a face to face meeting. If I were the breeder, I would do a home visit if I felt uneasy. I've seen Rottie breeders go to other states to do home visits to verify the potential owners statements. And decline if they don't think the person is a good fit for their pup. With the feeding and training, I'm all for advice and I'm sure I'm going to be leaning on my breeder for info since this is my first GSD coming up. But I would balk if a breeder writes into the contract what you can and can't feed the pup. I've raised and trained more than one pup to a happy healthy adulthood and will be perfectly able to do so again. I would find another breeder.


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## K9POPPY (Mar 6, 2014)

Sounds like anitram hit the nail on the head- coming from a lawyer, it is very likely good advice, after all, he knows laws. For me. I go by GUT INSTINCT, and in this case, it hits me all wrong, too many things sound hinky- I would pass- IMHO< Bob


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I think if you decided to purchase a pup from the breeder you can absolutely count on zero support if an issue arises. They have set the contract up to exempt themselves.

But I think these were snippets of various contracts - not just one?


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## kay88 (May 27, 2013)

Courtney said:


> I think if you decided to purchase a pup from the breeder you can absolutely count on zero support if an issue arises. They have set the contract up to exempt themselves.
> 
> But I think these were snippets of various contracts - not just one?


I have passed on both breeders. The guarantee stipulations were all from the same breeder, the questionnaire was a different breeder.


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