# Dog snaps at a neighbor dog - help needed!



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Hi1 I have a question that is bothering the heck out of me since it occurred today.

my 20 month old unaltered male GSD was out with me in our cul-de-sac when our new neighbors from next door brought their 12 yo male Lab to meet him. They just moved in not too long ago and this is the first time the dogs have met although I am sure they have sniffed each other thru the 8' stockade fence between the yards.

Anyway they were sniffing each other for awhile seemingly all friendly -nose sniffing and the usual butt sniffing for a number of minutes. Baron also was petted by the neighbor lady and I petted her dog and all seemed very well. All of a sudden, it seemed, as I didn't see it coming my dog snapped at the old dog as it seemed they were standing/sitting in front of us; and it seemed like he really meant it! Fortunately he didn't get him and the neighbor took her dog back into the house. The other dog was also a male.


A few minutes before this happened our neighbor from a few hoses down also had brought her male Golden Retriever out and Baron and he had a nice visit - no barking or anything like that. They sniffed each other and that was about it.

What did I miss? Any suggestions or reasons any one can come up with for this? I am very puzzled by this seemingly growing aggression in Baron and need to find some information on possible causes and ways to nip it in the bud.

Help!

Background for this is that Baron has had some barking incidents with a particular GSD in a Saturday class that the breeder holds for her dog buying customers. And in the last few months we have been working to stop him barking at dogs usually running or moving quickly in the obedience and breed classes that I take him to.

On the other hand he is usually very friendly to most other dogs that he meets even including puppies (and cats).


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It's hard to say what happened if you didn't see the bit just before the snapping. I'd suggest paying close attention Baron's body language closely when he meets other dogs (and the other dog's as well) to try to pick up what is happening before the barking or snapping occurs. This will give you some idea of what causes that reaction.

In most cases there are a whole lot of things (body language) that happen which lead up to the barking or snapping at another dog. I would try to watch and see if you can discover the steps that lead up to the barking/snapping so that you can stop it before it occurs.
For example with Bianca who lunges and barks at other dogs on leash sometimes, one of the first signs is that she stiffens or freezes. Another early warning sign is her staring or focusing hard on another dog. When that occurs it means she is about to bark and lunge, but if I refocus her attention on me when I catch her staring (before the barking starts) I can usually prevent her from getting to the barking point.
Other common signs in some dogs are tail stiffening or raising, hackles going up, stiff tail wag, low growl, stiffening or tensing of the lips/face, sudden change in tail and/or head position, etc...


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## jencarr (Apr 21, 2009)

Just curious, what have you been doing to stop him from barking at other dogs that are running or moving quickly? My Jackson does the same thing. Another dog got loose in agility class the other day and it drove him nuts seeing that dog running. When the dog ran by us it was all I could do to hold onto him as he lunged at the passing dog.
Other times he barks at other dogs but once they sniff & meet he is fine. One day though, out of the blue, he barked and tried to snap at another dog he had been sniffing. Not sure at all what triggered it, just like you. Must have gotten a bad vibe.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Here is the best advice I have gotten on the dog with dogs issue. 

Who cares, how your dog gets along with other dogs. Worry about people, I think that was Liesel (always mess up her name). Forget the doggie play dates. 

Once I let that go, I relaxed and Yes we encountered dogs, but I do not make Shadow meet them. It has made a world of difference. No pressure. 

I think I thought, he had to be perfect and get along with all dogs. 

Like the first person that posted said, there are TO many factors. Number one to me, is another owner, you cannot trust how they socialize THEIR dogs. 

We watched some friends dogs last week, brought them in our yard, Shadow was fine.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks for the info and reminders. Very true about the body language signs. I had been looking at him very closely when they firs got together and all seemed fine - tail wagging in a friendly manner, ie. not up and stiff. No growls or such. Sniffing each other head and back side. That is why I was so surprised when he lunged. No obvious sign of dominant behavior ie. no paw or head on the back or jumping on. (He has tried that with a couple of his GSD friends which usually leads to one or the other resenting it).

I missed something for sure. I got to watch that dog like a hawk!

Absolutely right about the staring - in all of the cases where he has barked at other dogs it is preceeded by staring and most of the time if i can catch it early I can divert him from it by calling him or by giving some obedience commands for him but not always. probably depends on how far he has progressed.

Can I cure him of this? I want him to be an Obedience/Show dog and that is going to be pretty hard if I cannot trust him around other dogs. Does the fact the other dog was a male (although an old one) make a difference?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I can't say for sure whether you can 'cure' him but I have made a lot of progress with Bianca so I think it is possible. When I first got her she would bark, lunge, growl many times when we saw another dog on leash (not every time). Part of the issue I think is that her previous owner used a strong correction (grabbing her scruff, yelling, alpha rolls) when she would bark at another dog which I think may have made her more insecure and worried about what was going to happen when she saw other dogs.
I started paying closer attention to both her body language and my own when we saw another dog. One thing I realized is I tended to tighten up the leash when I thought she might want to bark/lunge and doing so would often precipitate her reaction so I had to remind myself to keep a loose leash.
I also took her to a 'reactive dog' class and it helped us a lot. Now she is able to meet other dogs much better, and she is not on the alert so much. If she does want to bark I can stop her before she gets to the point of barking 95% of the time but she also does the pre-barking signs a lot less than she used to. I'm hoping she will be able to be a therapy dog eventually. We've moved from the 'reactive dog' class to a regular obedience class called "Outward Hound" where they meet at various locations and practice obedience.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks! What is a "reactive dog" class?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Here's the class description for the class I took Bianca to:

REACTIVE ROVER (Leash Reactivity) —

Does your dog go berserk when they see another dog (or other distractions) when you’re out on a walk? Leash reactivity is a very common problem for dogs, even for those that are friendly with dogs or people when off the leash. This class incorporates positive reinforcement and play to help you and your dog to walk confidently and calmly past dogs and other distractions while on-leash.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Codmaster, wait-- this may not be a reactive dog issue if he is, as you say, _pretty good with other dogs in general_.

What stands out immediately is that *you petted the other dog*. Also, I noticed that: *The neighbor petted your dog*. Either your dog, or the other dog (or both!) could well have been *resource-guarding*. Just like a juicy steak, dogs do NOT want another dog to get "their" affection from _their_ owners.

My Grimm was in a large pack of socializing dogs last month. They all got along. Until a dog came up to me and I mindlessly pet the other dog while Grimm was nearby. Grimm lunged and barked at the other dog. Of course! Silly me. I'll remember better next time. 

Resource guarding and their owner's affection-- while the term isn't truly correct per se, dogs can and do "get jealous" in a sense, and suddenly turn on another dog recieving lovings from THEIR owners.


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## jencarr (Apr 21, 2009)

I agree that they shouldn't have to meet or play with other dogs. In fact my trainer discourages it. However, I would like him to remain calm when other dogs are in sight. We can't possibly avoid seeing other dogs when we are out & about. Jackson thinks he needs to announce his presence, hackles go up & he barks and it is embarrasing to have a dog that snaps as other dogs run by. I would just like to feel more in control of my dog in these situations. Plus, I hate the looks I get from the other owners that think I have a vicious, unfriendly dog. 
I am working on focus work with Jackson and I also use toys and happy talk to distract him. If all else fails I put him in a sit or a down while I try to regain control. 
Just curious about what other peolpe have tried in these situations.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Why does your trainer discourage you from allowing your dog to interact with other canines? You weren't discouraged from meeting other human beings were you? This was one of the reasons I left a certain dog club - I think it's a very flawed approach, unless you have a strictly competition dog which is going to live most of its life in a kennel and only be taken out for training and trials. The longer you keep your dog unsocialized around others the more of a problem you are going to have. And if he ever gets away from you .....well, I'll let you figure it out. 

_____________________________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adopted from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

If he's great with other dogs, it may have just been this one dog. Duncan is great with other dogs, he mostly ignores them but will sniff/be sniffed and stuff. But there is this one, younger, unaltered male lab (Dunc is neutered) that he just can't stand! 

It's the only dog I've seen him growl/snap at. I believe some dogs may give off bad vibes like some people do IMHO.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

What I have experienced with Shadow is he is better if there is NOT a nose to nose meeting. 

I think dogs can be around other dogs, I just do not voluntarily walk Shadow up to another dog, and say "Say hi"







Or force the issue. 

It has relaxed us both. IF there is a choice, I choose not to let them meet. 

I find out in public, with Shadow once owners see I am making him heel, they just stay away.









I used to be worried that I had to be an ambassodor for the breed, and prove to everyone that Shadow was this Great dog. Well, ya know HE IS. Just their dog may be an idoit. AND Shadow WILL react, then WHO looks bad? My GSD. 

He was fine, until 2 off leash dogs attacked him, while he was on leash and we were on a walk. That is when our problems started. So, now he is a little untrusting towards other dogs. So, I do not push him, I do NOT avoid, taking him out. BUT I do not push him. He is doing better and better the more he sees other dogs, are not coming at him. 

Do they have to interact with other dogs at dog shows? I mean, I know they will be there. BUT I would just stay in your own space. Just my opinon. I would want to keep my dog focused.


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

I think a good GSD is aloof in most circumstances with other dogs. Our club works on socializing puppies and interaction with the older stable dogs so they are comfortable and non reactive. 

The problem is not knowing the nature of the dogs you meet out and about, their owners awareness of each dog's space, and their ability to read their dog's body language. It is not totally unpredictable but you have a short window to prevent problems. 

It can also be an issue if you're standing there stressed out that it might happen. The dogs pick up on the stress and it is somewhat transferred to them. 

I also avoid unwanted contact, and when loose dogs approach I lead and run them off. On one occasion I had an equal size dog to my female shoot out the front door of his house, and ran across the street full blast while we were jogging. She remained at my side and a quick shot with my palm to the neck of the dog knocked him off, and made him retreat. The lady who said the dog "just got out" freaked and looked at me like I was a monster. I said nothing, just shot her a glance and continued running.


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## jencarr (Apr 21, 2009)

I think the trainer's point is basically that you don't know what the other dog is going to do. They can be around other dogs but they don't have to touch, sniff, play etc... 
Jackson has confidence/nerve issues so I am working hard to help him with that and I don't want him to have a bad experience with another dog. He doesn't need other dogs. He has his big brother Forrest and his people family. I am much more concerned that he interact well with people.


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## jencarr (Apr 21, 2009)

I can't stand it when I am walking my dog on a leash in the neighborhood and we encounter a loose dog. There is one road I have to avoid because a woman routinely lets her dog out loose. She will coming bombing out after you & pays no attention to the owner when she finally notices and comes out to call her. I don't know why she does that when she knows her dog is not friendly to other dogs. I will do whatever I need to do to protect my dog. My trainer says you can grab your dog leash (6 ft leash) down close to the collar with your left hand and put the length of the leash over your right shoulder. If the dog comes close you can snap the leash down onto their head using your right hand while keeping your own dog close & under control.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

The majority of my gsd's were not social butterfly's with other dogs. It was fine by me, they competed in obedience, agility , conformation, and I never ever had a problem with them being around other dogs.

All of them could be within inches of other dogs and could care less, they did not like strange dogs 'intheirface' which I consider rude, and I'm sure they did to, and would on occassion do a quick 'snap' get out of my face behavior. 

As long as my dogs can go out and function in the real world,in whatever situation I put them in, I could care less if they don't want the company of strange dogs. 

codmaster, only your dog knows why he did what he did to the older lab, he may just not like him, I wouldn't worry about not being able to compete with him, it sounds for the most part he is good with other animals..

ok done rambling


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks Diane,

At least I feel a little better now although I am still at a mystery as to why Baron would do such a thing esp. when he was being friendly just a minute before. And the lab did not seem to be aggressive or dominant either.

He has never done that before to another dog.

I do have an appointment with an animal behaviorist on Tuesday and it should be interesting.

Has anyone ever gone to one of these? I am curious as to what to expect. He was recommended by a couple of people in the obedience club I belong to.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I really think, since both dogs were friendly then SUDDENLY snarly.. and because you said that your dog has been okay with other dogs for the most part, that this is from your dog reacting to you PETTING the other dog-- resource guarding you as a resource. This is common. My dog is this way also. (I posted above)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

It could be even though I have never noticed any jealosey before. Something to think about at least.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

It often happens out of the blue when both dogs were fine.







And, when both dogs are usually fine with other dogs. Not all dogs get jealous of owners petting other dogs, but many do, and BOY does mine ever!


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Also...isnt it about this age when GSD's start showing different independant behaviors? 

Shadow starting showing me different traits around 2 yrs. You just have to correct the unwanted ones. They are like teens, they will try you. 

I having a feeling this is going to all work out. Let us know what the behavorist says...I almost did that with Shadow.


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## Daisy1986 (Jul 9, 2008)

Totally agree with Diane's post.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your replies. It really does help to see that other dogs react the same way sometimes when your dog does something you really don't expect and cannot figure out why he did it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

just like people/kids,,some just don't like each other,,))


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Very true - pity it is a neighbors dog!


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## Lola1969 (Mar 6, 2007)

Ozzy also resource guards my affection and becomes a real jerk if I pay attention to other dogs. This could very well be the problem here.

In addition, I do not see snapping as something to be alarmed about. Snapping always purposefully misses and is just a warning to the other dog. Better a snap than no snap and then an all out bite. Some dogs just don't like certain other dogs, could be a chemistry thing.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Just a thought for your consideration. 

When my friend adopted a 3 year old Sheltie she brought him to my house. I brought Dakota outside from the front door. She walked around and up to the front walkway(I wanted her to remain in the driveway) as I was coming around and her dog growled and snapped and bit Dakota in the face. Dakota returned the growl and the snap but did not connect. My friend was horrified, not by her dog's behaviour, but by my dog, because a GSD is so much bigger than a Sheltie.

I was determined to end this meeting on a positive note, so I suggested that she walk accross the street to the sidewalk and I would join her shortly. We introduced the two dogs there, kept the leashes fairly loose, and watched their body for signs. They sniffed each other and everything was fine. We then went for a walk with the two dogs walking nicely side by side.

It was a good thing that neither me or my friend exchanged words and we both kept our cool.

It could have been the meeting place and the fact that you petted the dog. Maybe next meeting there will not be a problem. Dogs live in the moment and they quickly forget aobut the incident that was not a big deal in their minds. Done and over with for them, but us, we tend to hang on to things a little bit longer.

Is there any way that you could have another introduction in a controlled environment away from both homes. Not sure if your neighbour would be willing, but it may not hurt to try as this is a dog you will be seeing on a regular basis. If it were just some random dog then I wouldn't even bother. Could others who have way more experience comment on this approach?

I have never every petted another dog in front of Dakota, but with the comments about resource guarding their owners, I don't think I'm going to test this one.


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