# APBT breed again let down by irresponsible owner



## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Man tried to kill pitbull to save his dog


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

That is very sad. I am so sorry this dog attacked as it did and you are right, this is a responsible owner issue. I know so many pits that are wonderful dogs. 

Once again, the breed and dog pay the ultimate price for human error.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Hate to hear these things. We adopted a lovely Pit from the pound for my son in august and she is so sweet and eager to please. She is our second Pit and the first was equally wonderful. The city where I work, but fortunately don;t live does not allow Pits and this is so wrong and uninformed. These dogs suffer so much for irresponsible owners and bad publicity


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## brogers93 (Aug 23, 2009)

Is this the owner's fault? For all we know, the dog could have been a rescue with no background info that was given to this girl as a gift! After the first attack, however, she probably should have taken the dog home...duh!

As long as you have breeds like pit bulls, you are going to have people who breed them for fighting or breed dogs of questionable temperment. So, what's the solution??? Unless you can control every breeder and every owner, there is no fixing this issue. That's why some places have outlawed the breed. This is not ignorance, rather public safety. Do a search and see which breeds are most responsible for dog attacks...

The pit has become some type of a "status symbol" to a lot of people who probably shouldn't have a pet to begin with. This has created the problem. So, again, what is the solution???


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

What in the world is a 10yr old girl doing with an aggressive dog such as this?
There is no way, that this one day is the first time this dog has shown his aggression towards everything.

First off, the dog is much too large to be a real APBT.
Precautions should have been taken long before the incidents of this day, to insure this dog was contained and secure.

It's not a APBT, but what ever it is, any dog that will redirect an attack on another animal to a human should be culled immediately.
I don't see why the Officer "first on the scene" didn't blow this cur away. Don't the LEO's in Oz carry guns? no nightsticks?

It has gotten to the point, where all LEO's everywhere should be given a course in the use of a "Parting Stick". They should keep a pair in their cars, along with a dog collar.
If one of these maniac dogs are in hold, and have no collar on, one could go underneath, and get a collar on the cur, and cinch it up tight in order to control the cur.

It should be Law that in order to own a APBT, or any dog deemed so, a person would have to pass certain tests, and have a Permit.
It should be every bit as stringent to own a dog who has the potential to be aggressive, as it is to carry a firearm.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

There is SO much bs in that article!!

"He must have had the taste of blood already"

"That's what they are bred for and there were two more pieces of meat there for him."

"RSPCA Victoria president Dr Hugh Wirth said the dogs were a menace and were not suitable as pets for anyone. "They are time bombs waiting for the right circumstances,'' Dr Wirth said. "The American pit bull terrier is lethal because it was a breed that was developed purely for dog fighting, in other words killing the opposition.""


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: tucoWhat in the world is a 10yr old girl doing with an aggressive dog such as this? First off, the dog is much too large to be a real APBT.
> It's not a APBT, but what ever it is, any dog that will redirect an attack on another animal to a human should be culled immediately.
> I don't see why the Officer "first on the scene" didn't blow this cur away. Don't the LEO's in Oz carry guns? no nightsticks?
> It has gotten to the point, where all LEO's everywhere should be given a course in the use of a "Parting Stick". They should keep a pair in their cars, along with a dog collar.
> ...


Are you serious? Some of your points make sense but some are too reminiscent of Big Brother! 
A permit to own a dog?? What breeds would you set for this - how about mutts?
Do you know how big APBT actually get?

Most pit bulls are very very sweet clownish dogs without a mean bone in their bodies. Actually a great kids dog. 

BTW, would you advocate a permit to own a GSD also?  They are extremely effective protection dogs and fully capable of killing someone and also are very high in the number of dog bites nationally.

BTW2 can't any dog act aggressively and bite someone?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

tuco said:


> I don't see why the Officer "first on the scene" didn't blow this cur away. Don't the LEO's in Oz carry guns? no nightsticks?
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

"That's what they're bred for?" Puhleeeeeeze! I dunno about anyone else but prey drive strikes me as what really happened. I don't trust my male around little dogs, I'd be afraid the same kind of thing would happen if he had the opportunity, so we don't give that to him.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Thats just awful. That poor man and hs dogs!!!
Every pit Ive met, even pitbull terriers....were bad natured dogs. Even though they were raised in a loving home. No offence to anyone who has one....Ive just never met a nice one.
And I do understand that any dog can snap....


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I read it as the 10year old girl was the owner of another dog who was also attacked. not that she was the owner of the pit.


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: DainerraI read it as the 10year old girl was the owner of another dog who was also attacked. not that she was the owner of the pit.


I stand corrected. Dainerra, you are sure correct. After reading your post, I reread, and see I had originally misread the article.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I unclear as to who the owner of the pit was but I don't think it was the 10 year girl. but I don't think the owner was named in the article, other than he/she was there to help the police.


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: codmaster
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: tucoWhat in the world is a 10yr old girl doing with an aggressive dog such as this? First off, the dog is much too large to be a real APBT.
> ...


As the owner of one of the oldest documented, APBT Kennels in the US., and with over 40yrs experience with APBT's, Yes, I know exactly how large a True APBT can get.

If a permit will keep the breed I love from being totally destroyed, then yes, I am more than willing to subject myself and my dogs to such a permit.
I would love it if all the human aggressive so called APBT's were all destroyed. Maybe if permits would be mandatory, I wouldn't have to read about incidents like this every day in the media. 

As for GSD's? if it would ever get to the point the GSD would get the rep the APBT has, then why not? I care deeply for the breeds I own and keep. If a permit would keep them safe, why would anyone object?


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> 
> tuco said:
> ...


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Quote:It would be very simple to fire into the dog's chest or straight down between the shoulder blades, point blank, as the dog had the man's hand. That would not be foolish or dangerous to anything except the aggressive dog.
> The attack couldn't have been "Frenzied", as the dog was in hold, or locked on the victim's hand.
> One could have even controlled the dog in hold, by gripping the scruff of his neck to steady the shot.


are you serious!? a cop would be facing some serious reprimand including possible termination for discharging their weapon in a crowd. they absolutely did the right thing by not shooting the dog.


on a side note, this morning I took Sage to Petsmart to pick up some bully sticks. We met a woman with her just purchased 4wk old pit bull puppy....luckily a pit bull owner gave her a stern talking to before i could


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Sagelfn
> 
> 
> > Quote:It would be very simple to fire into the dog's chest or straight down between the shoulder blades, point blank, as the dog had the man's hand. That would not be foolish or dangerous to anything except the aggressive dog.
> ...


Just typical cops. Obviously had no clue how to break a dog off Fast.
What if that dog was crushing a child's hand? What if it was your child's hand? How about your hand? I wonder if you would be of the same mindset?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

> Quote:Just typical cops. Obviously had no clue how to break a dog off Fast. What if that dog was crushing a child's hand? What if it was your child's hand? How about your hand? I wonder if you would be of the same mindset?


yeah i would feel the same way...too much risk of getting shot. the dog could move, hit the gun anything could happen. easy for you to judge them on doing a bad job when you have 40yrs experience with the breed


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Tuco is right about everything he's said... I sure as [heck] would have grabbed the gun and done it myself if the cop wouldn't. I think when a human limb is in danger of being shredded a cop could yell at everyone to back off and fire downward through the dog's head or chest. I would be utterly







if someone with a lethal weapon chose not to use it and to wait for the 'proper' people ot kill the dog, all the while my hand is in a vice with teeth.

There is also no way a pure bred APBT, or even an Amstaff, was 110-132 lbs as said.
This is what I consider a pretty good representative of the APBT today:
http://www.matrixkennels.com/sati.htm
http://www.matrixkennels.com/trinbuck.htm


I don't know about Aussie cops, but don't they carry sticks as well? A huge whack to the head would at the very least knock the dog out.

Very sad.. Every short haired dog attack is a pit.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Come on, if a cop can shoot a running criminal or while in a fight, he can shoot a dog who is holding steady or beat it off.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

look at the other thread, where the cop started firing into a crowd of people that were PLAYING with the dog. because she "thought" someone might have been in danger, the shooting is considered justified. Im pretty sure that this situation, with the dog holding onto the man's arm, would have counted!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*



> Originally Posted By: Dainerralook at the other thread, where the cop started firing into a crowd of people that were PLAYING with the dog. because she "thought" someone might have been in danger, the shooting is considered justified. Im pretty sure that this situation, with the dog holding onto the man's arm, would have counted!


LMAO I was about to say that. TOO MUCH action and too little.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*

if the police officer was uncomfortable firing their weapon in the situation do to risk then they did the right thing....only in concern with the use of firearm. A taser should have been used/tried



> Quote:Come on, if a cop can shoot a running criminal or while in a fight, he can shoot a dog who is holding steady or beat it off.


not trying to be picky but a cop cannot shoot a fleeing criminal and only in a fight if the situation warrants deadly force


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*



> Originally Posted By: Sagelfn
> 
> 
> > Quote:Come on, if a cop can shoot a running criminal or while in a fight, he can shoot a dog who is holding steady or beat it off.
> ...


I've seen it, even on shows like "Worlds' Wildest Police Videos". If the person had tried to shoot/stab the officer than ran off, they shot at him... Not to get into the morals of Our Finest and their rules, but I'm saying I would have taken the dog out, even wrapping something around hi neck and lifting, can't bite when you're out of oxygen.. the poor man must have been in agony, all those little bones in your hands...

fine with me, I'm picky, if I see a statement I don't believe/know not the be true, I call people out on it, only way to help ignorance..

I never got to see a picture of this 'pit bull'.. Is there one somewhere else?


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*

After viewing the video in this link, I have done a 180. I truly believe the man who was bitten in the hand, just got in the way of the big dog attacking his dogs.

The injuries to this man's hand are so minute and minor, the big dog could not have bore down on the hand.
Eric hated the dog for killing his beloved pet.(and rightly so)
Listen to the vid. Eric states, "he sorta let me go as we were choking him"..............
I think Eric got his hand in the dog's mouth and the dog spit it out. The dog wasn't locked on Eric's hand for 20 minutes. They
held the dog down for 20 minutes until the paramedics doing the injecting showed up.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26229048-5006301,00.html

This is why dog aggressive dogs need to be contained and secured. It is not only for the protection of other pets, but protection for the aggressive dog as well.

There are at least 20 articles about this on the net. One headline states "Death-Jab for dog latched on Man's hand for 20 minutes"
I know what a hand looks like that a Pit has bore down on, and Eric did not experience that.

Not one article shows a pic of this 120lb Killer Pit.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Many molosser breeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molosser) have similar features and are often misrepresented as pit bull terriers (most likely also in this case) - our Sam (a PB english Staffie - RIP) would also been misclassifed by many uninformed people. The fact is that these breeds have extraordinary bite power and if a bite occurs, the consequences are likely to be more serious than a bite from any other breed. 

I don't want any dog to be euthanized simply according to it's breed label but unfortunately history and the irresponsibility of some of the owners of this breed have given this breed a worse reputation than it deserves. Nevertheless, breeds of this type have the potential to do more harm than other dogs simply due to the muscle power of the jaw. As the breed and it's mixes are so easily able to fall into the wrong hands, the reputation of the breed has been tarnished to the degree that the future of the breed, in many locations, is very uncertain.

FYI tasers are limited in Australia as are the use of firearms.

All dog agressive dogs should be the same proper supervision as other dogs, if not moreso and this owners disregard for this requirement has done a lot of damage to all dogs who may be deemed as molosser dogs.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Ah, I had interpreted it as the dog latched on for 20 minutes.

Either way, sad outcome, and another dent in this breed's battered defense.. .


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Angel RThats just awful. That poor man and hs dogs!!!
> Every pit Ive met, even pitbull terriers....were bad natured dogs. Even though they were raised in a loving home. No offence to anyone who has one....Ive just never met a nice one.
> And I do understand that any dog can snap....


I've met quite a few good natured pits, more than bad natured ones.

I've worked where I met several dogs a day on their own ground half the time when the owner wasn't home for years.

I have two issues with pits. They are not always easy to "read", and once they do decide they want a piece of something, they are persistent and strong enough to get a piece.

From those years of experience they are not the most aggressive dogs to me though. Chows hold that title. They are the breed I ran across more bad natured dogs than any other, and can also be hard to read.

German Shepherds are about half and half as to which would bite me, but shepherds usually made it more than clear what their intentions were, and what they would allow.

I ran into a very nice pit at our local dog park recently, all alone, with a young couple, nobody brought a dog in, and possibly any there left before I got there. I took Hope in and they played for about an hour. He was just a great happy go lucky dog.

The big problem with pits is that every idiot who wants one for a status symbol or all the wrong reasons gravitates to the breed and are the worst possible type of person to own one IMO.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: B Rogers
> As long as you have breeds like pit bulls, you are going to have people who breed them for fighting or breed dogs of questionable temperment. So, what's the solution??? Unless you can control every breeder and every owner, there is no fixing this issue. That's why some places have outlawed the breed. This is not ignorance, rather public safety. Do a search and see which breeds are most responsible for dog attacks...
> 
> The pit has become some type of a "status symbol" to a lot of people who probably shouldn't have a pet to begin with. This has created the problem. So, again, what is the solution???



As the owner of a "dangerous" breed yourself, the German Shepherd, Surely you aren't condoning or insinuating BSL....

"Banning Pit Bulls would be like banning cars because people get killed in car accidents! Who's responsible, the car or the driver/manufacturer? Any car can be deadly in the wrong hands or if built with defective parts. Same thing with dogs... Any dog. Pit Bulls are no more responsible for the way they are bred, raised and trained, than cars are responsible for the way they are designed, built and driven.


Here are some things to consider:

"Pit bull" is not a breed, but a "type" that encompasses several registered breeds and crossbreeds. Therefore, statistics that claim "Pit bulls" are responsible for some percentage of attacks are lumping many separate breeds together, then comparing that to other dogs that are counted as individual breeds.

*

Breed identification is left up to victim and witness testimony, and is often wrong. Due to negative press, biting dogs of almost ANY breed have been called "Pit bulls". Try this little quiz for fun: Find the pit bull See how many people you know can pick out a pit bull from pictures, let alone in the middle of an attack.
*

Search the center for disease control site. Even the CDC supports the position that irresponsible owners, not breed, are the chief cause of dog bites. They have done studies that indicate that the most "dangerous breed" of dog changes with popularity and reputation.
*

Search the american temperament test society . Pit bulls have an average score that beats even the "ultimate family dog", the Golden Retriever.
*

Positive Pit Bull Press - This site shows not only what the breed is about, but the difference responsible ownership makes. Many of these pages are "Pit bull rescue makes good" stories. This site features, among other great stuff, rescue pits that are saving human lives in Search and Rescue and US Customs Service.
*

The Diane Whipple case. One of the first times the owner has been held responsible for the actions of their dog. Note that the breed involved was the Perro de Presa Canario (Canary Dog) from Spain, yet the brunt of the negative press again targeted the pit bull, an all but unrelated breed. Clearly the message is lets stop targeting the dogs! Pit Bulls are no more dangerous than any other strong and large dog. They just happen to attract more irresponsible and abusive owners than any other breed... Ironically, by portraying them in a negative way, the media and breed legislators only make them irresistibly attractive to individuals with bad intentions. Do Pit Bull haters really think that after banning the breed all the criminals who use these dogs as weapons will own Basset Hounds? And if they did, how long do you think it would take before Basset Hounds start making the news?
*

A breed ban will only remove Pit Bulls from the good people's homes and leave them in the hands of animal abusers who couldn't care less about the law... Better think twice before supporting such measure...

Breed Ban IQ Test

1. If you were the sheriff in your town and you learned that Toyotas were disproportionally involved in more auto accidents than any other model, would you:
(a) ban Toyotas and confiscate the Toyota of anyone caught driving one
(b) arrest the drivers responsible for those accidents?

2. Which course of action in Question 1 do you think would:
(a) inconvenience the fewest number of people?
(b) be the more efficient use of taxpayer dollars?
(c) be more effective in preventing future accidents involving Toyotas?

3. If your answer to Question 1 was (a) -- ban Toyotas -- and the sheriff's department learned that, by a statistical quirk, drivers of confiscated Toyotas were now perpetrating further accidents by driving, say, Hondas, would you then ban Hondas? If not, why not?

4. If your answer to Question 3 was, "Ban Hondas, too, dammit, something HAS to be done," then would you propose a ban on ALL car models with names ending in "a," such as Kias and Mazdas, reasoning that all these brands are pretty much made for the same purpose? If not, why not? If so, how would you deal with car brands that end in the SOUND of "a," such as Chevrolet?

5. Are you beginning to understand that:
(a) because most of the tens of millions of pet dogs are NOT registered, "breed" cannot be defined in a meaningful way?
(b) that miscreants employ pit bulls, German shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Akitas, Great Danes -- that is, whichever dog is handy -- as personal tools of terrorism?
(c) that law enforcement authorities could waste inordinate amounts of time (and, therefore, taxpayer dollars) policing a breed ban, adding to their jobs a task perhaps even more meaningless than enforcing jaywalking laws?
(d) that the people most likely affected by a breed ban -- that is, those inconvenienced, harassed and likely to suffer damage -- are the 99.9% majority of utterly innocent dogs and people?
(e) most important, that breed bans do ESSENTIALLY NOTHING to address the real problem: Human scumbags who abuse animals?

Key: If your answer to any part of Question 5 is "no," I'm afraid you have flunked. Please go back and reconsider your responses."
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/legislation.php







> Originally Posted By: tuco
> It should be Law that in order to own a APBT, or any dog deemed so, a person would have to pass certain tests, and have a Permit.
> It should be every bit as stringent to own a dog who has the potential to be aggressive, as it is to carry a firearm.


In that case every breed and mutt would fall under that category. All dogs have teeth and they don't have the ability to reason. And honestly I have to agree! Too many idiots and irresponsible people owning powerful breeds out there.








> Originally Posted By: Angel RThats just awful. That poor man and hs dogs!!!
> Every pit Ive met, even pitbull terriers....were bad natured dogs. Even though they were raised in a loving home. No offence to anyone who has one....Ive just never met a nice one.
> And I do understand that any dog can snap....


Bad natured in what way? Pit Bulls are not supposed to be human aggressive so I have to question what type of people are owning these dogs that you have met. If they are raised in loving homes someone needs to stop breeding unstable dogs. A properly raised, well socialized, responsibly owned pit bull should never be human aggressive.


About dogs just "snapping"...

"I heard that a pit bull can be totally normal one day, then suddenly snap on its owners.
Again, another common myth. There are many variations of this myth including the belief that a Pit Bull's brain keeps growing, and eventually the pressure in their skull builds up until it goes crazy. Absolutely ridiculous!! A Pit Bull is no more likely to turn on someone than any other dog. A well-balanced dog has a sound temperament, regardless of breed.

Any breed of dog that is not properly trained or socialized can have the potential to become aggressive to its owner or family. Therefore it is extremely important to maintain a healthy relationship with your pet, watch for subtle changes of physical conditions, medical problems or aggressive dominant behaviours, and deal with these problems accordingly with a professional trainer or veterinarian.

Many owners sadly do not recognize subtle signs that their dogs are giving off, until something serious happens. This is not exclusive to the bull breeds. It is a common error in dog ownership in general, and relates to dogs that are 5 pounds to 150 pounds, regardless of breed."
http://www.hugabull.com/manmush.html





I am sorry that you haven't had the opportunity to meet a friendly bully breed. If you're ever in Houston, you're welcome to come meet my goofy "vicious" pit bull. 





























This is a video I took of us meeting her at the shelter. From the start she's been all wags and kisses. For a shelter dog with an unknown past, she has a pretty stable temperament. The volunteers and staff at the shelter named her "Sugar" for good reason.





http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

I have personally met many nice Pit Bulls, but there seems to be a population explosion lately of PB's being bred by every idiot with an intact dog. There is no regard for temperament or anything else. The Atlanta Craigslist is chock-full of Pits from pups to adults, all touting various "bloodlines". 

As was stated earlier a "well-bred" Pit Bull should never be human aggressive, but these are NOT well-bred dogs. These potentially unstable dogs are sadly a growing majority. 

I am NOT in favor of BSL, but there has to be some sort of solution to get all of these byb dogs out of circulation.

I personally have had over 5 encounters (2 different Pits-both intact males) in my own townhouse complex this year! My poor dogs seem to be targets, my GSD Lexi & my Australian Cattle Dog, Ivy have really had some scary experiences. In one instance I was with Ivy in front of my own door when one of the Pits came around the building in a beeline for her! I had seen the dog with a man earlier out in back. The dog went straight for Ivy & managed to nip her but not break skin before I kicked him, by that point the man caught up to him & got his leash. The next incident I was out with Lexi, fortunately I now carry an asp baton. The dog (same one as w/Ivy) broke away & came after Lexi. I was able to whack the dog across the top of his head before he made contact! By that time the group pf men/boys caught the dog. I am SO SICK of being afraid to walk my dogs in my own neighborhood, essentially in my own yard!

I have made several complaints to my HOA as well as talking to the dog owner/handler directly and FINALLY the HOA sent a letter. It has been several weeks since the last incident & I have not seen the dog again. I am still afraid every day though and I always carry the baton.

Kristina


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Try carrying a taser. Honestly, it will at least teach him not to run up on YOUR dog. If you must, CALL animal control, they seem to love getting on pit cases, the HOA doesn't do much good. 

I've had horrible experiences with bulldogs, but looking back I'd say both were Bully pits, not APBTs.

I want to ask, the males who are after your dogs, have they tried attacking YOU? Dog Agression is expected in this breed..


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

I have thought about getting a taser. 

No, the dogs ignored me to get to my dogs. I know the breed is meant to be animal/dog aggressive and that is what scares me. I never want to see my dogs torn to shreds in front of me!

I have not called Animal Control, but I will the next time (I hope there isn't a next time). I do fear retaliation, but I also didn't want to jump to pulling in authorities if the situation could be resolved as neighbors. 

Kristina


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Love the dogs you posted a link to







sadly most of the local pitties are more like this line








& then the stoopid bybers love to cross them with Presa's & Fila's _Mom is the Pit bull (50lbs), Dad is the Fila (140lbs)_








Our local AC's are full of pittie crosses that never make it onto the adoption floor







the excellent staff keep them as long as there is space, work with rehabing them, try to get them into local rescue & ultimately euth far too many


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*



> Originally Posted By: KristinaKI have thought about getting a taser.
> 
> No, the dogs ignored me to get to my dogs. I know the breed is meant to be animal/dog aggressive and that is what scares me. I never want to see my dogs torn to shreds in front of me!
> 
> ...


Are the people that violent? I mean, this isn't like a one time thing where the neighbor apologized and properly contained his dogs after the first instance. I have neighbors who have HA dogs who come after me at least once a month, used to be more but I kept reporting them after a few chats with them didn't work.

I say get a taser, I know a good site that has them for separating dogs from hogs in hunting... $20 or so. It wouldn't kill him but it would teach him a heck of a lesson. And not just for that dog, for perverts (lol) and other attacking dogs.

Nor would I. I love my dogs too much, I don't take mine out walking often or without defense because of the amount of idiots around here with powerful breeds that they don't have any idea of how to control or contain.


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*



> Originally Posted By: APBTLove
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: KristinaKI have thought about getting a taser.
> ...


After a couple of incidents with the first dog & young teen who walks him, I had my front door vandalized, egged & spray-painted with the "B" word. I have also had mail stolen right from my front door. 

The guy with the second & more aggressive dog hangs out with some pretty big teens and he is a large man himself. I don't want to put myself in a position where they may decide to retaliate against me, my dogs or my property. I'd love to move, but the housing market it bad right now & nothing in my complex is selling.







I have lived here for 10 years and only recently have these problems occurred.

On my ACD list someone posted some stun batons that looked good & are probably easier to use than a taser. They are a solid stick in different lengths & voltage levels. If I can touch the dog with the baton, he will get a shock that will knock him down but the shock will not travel through to anyone touching the dog.

Kristina


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*

The solution is to really crack down on irresponsible owners of these breeds and backyard breeders, but it's easier for law makers just to ban the breeds as a whole so they take they easy way out. Plus I am sure police forces would rather use their manpower out on the streets and not going from door to door seeing who is an unfit "dangerous" breed owner.

And Kristina i don't blame you one bit for protecting yourself and your dogs and being scared to walk in your neighborhood. The street that my parents live on is riddled with loose roaming dogs because it's a small town and people are in the dark ages when it comes to responsible dog ownership. When I lived there and when I visit my mom and I can't even get 5 feet out the door with our dogs before 2 or 4 loose dogs come running up trying to attack them. We learned fast to walk with a BIG stick. I love dogs and hate the thought of having to harm them, but when it comes to the safety and protection of ME and my OWN dogs, I would not hesitate to do what I needed to do.

Banning the breed will do nothing, as stated it will only hurt the responsible owners of these breeds. The dog fighting and poor breeding will not cease to exist. Breed bans have proven to be ineffective before.

I think just about every city's craigslist pet section you look at are going to have those idiots posting and boasting about their "rare xyz-nosed pits" or "gotti watchdog razorsedge whatever" lines.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*

That just sucks, Kristina... Any way you could set up a small camera near your door/property just in case this happens again? At the very least they could get charged.

I hope those buttheads (for lack of better words) move out/get kicked out... It's never fun to have bad neighbors. Having been there...


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## KAKZooKpr (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: APBT breed again let down by irresponsible own*



> Originally Posted By: APBTLoveThat just sucks, Kristina... Any way you could set up a small camera near your door/property just in case this happens again? At the very least they could get charged.
> 
> I hope those buttheads (for lack of better words) move out/get kicked out... It's never fun to have bad neighbors. Having been there...


I've thought about the camera thing, but not sure how to work it out. sadly, I just have things mailed to work (packages). I have been wanting to get a PO box as well. 

I know the boy with the less aggressive dog, they are renters, but not sure how easy it would be for the owner to evict them. From what I understand though, complaints against them are piling up. I am pretty sure the kid is who stole my stuff & vandalized my door. 

As for the people with the more aggressive dog, I don't know if they own or rent. We aren't supposed to have many renters in this complex, but some people have been grandfathered in.

Thanks for the support!









Kristina


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The GangThere is SO much bs in that article!!


"Locked its jaw..."

Another sad myth. People don't realize that Pit Bulls (or any dog) cannot "lock their jaw." People also need to realize that Pit Bulls (real ones - not mongrel whatevers) are TERRIERS....tenacious....stubborn.....intelligent....terriers.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MustLoveGSDs
> If they are raised in loving homes someone needs to stop breeding unstable dogs. A properly raised, well socialized, responsibly owned pit bull should never be human aggressive.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not naive enough to believe everything I read when it comes to dogs especially things like their brain continues to grow and their skull stops (I owned a Doberman, and I was told that by a former member of this board and was told "you'll see!" when I told her that was false). I don't believe the "locked jaws" beliefs either. I didn't think I would believe the "just snapped" comment either, but there is a reason why "Cash" is a canine angel now. If you want to talk "tough decisions" when it comes to euthanizing your pet, you need only say "Cash" to any member of my family or any person that met him.

We raised him from the time we rescued him (from owners that purchased him at 5 weeks old) 7 weeks old until he was euthanized this past August. We socialized him, trained him, worked with him extensively. Because of my fifteen year experience with the breed, I knew their quirks: their tenacity, their sometimes stubborness, and their goofy personalities. However, even though we raised Cash in a loving and responsible environment, enlisted the assistance of highly-respected Veterinarians, Animal Behaviorists, and Trainers, spent over $2,600 in testing and attempting to diagnose, the decision was made to euthanize him due to his unpredictable HUMAN aggression (aka ... he snapped ...) that could not be worked out or diagnosed. 

I do not, however, use Cash as a representation of a quality Pit Bull Terrier. I use Cash as a representation of what happens when dogs come from unknown backgrounds and unknown temperaments. Who knows? His dad or mom could have been aggressive. I firmly believe that the backyard breeder that had a hand in producing Cash was pumping out puppies to sell for a quick buck and to satisfy persons' urges to own a dog that "looks cool" or "looks tough." 

We also did not allow Cash to change our opinions on Pit Bulls. I mean...check out "Gidget." She's "balanced" in ALL ways.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistleWe raised him from the time we rescued him (from owners that purchased him at 5 weeks old) 7 weeks old until he was euthanized this past August.


Those 2 weeks and his first 5 weeks of life could have caused issues that no amount of training or socializing could overcome.

Most likely he did not just snap. Most likely he had underlying issues that surfaced in an explosive manner.

I'd like to hear from someone that got an 8 week old Pit puppy (from a responsible breeder with correct genetic stock and that did all the right training and socializing during their first 8 weeks), raised them correctly (training and socializing) and STILL had them "snap".

I had a friend that had a large breed dog (can't remember if it was a Newf or what) that was just as friendly as can be. A great show dog, loved everyone. One evening, in a motel after a dog show, the dog attacked and severely damaged her friends young daughter in the face.

When they had the dog euthanized they did a necropsy and found a tumor on the dogs brain. Vets think that was the reason the dog just "snapped".


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

For Cash, there was no tumor nor medical reason why he suddenly acted violently. As I said, Cash [obviously] was not from a reputable breeder. If he had "underlying issues" and they surfaced in an "exploding manner," then wouldn't that be the same as "snapping?" What about all of the other dogs who persons claim "snap?" Could those as well not have "underlying issues?"

For me, the definition of "snapping" is a normal dog one day who suddenly acts violently while unprovoked (aka no external events occurred causing a reaction). I guess maybe "snapping" has different meanings.

In Cash's case.....Cash 'snapped.' 

However, it's not just Pit Bulls or (as the media likes to call them) "pit bull-type dogs" that can suddenly act a different way/act violently. That goes with ANY breed of dog, and it boils down to genetics AND how it is raised. 

As my Veterinarian (Dr. Sherry Weaver) says, "a responsible dog owner cannot be ignorant and think that a dog's behavior and temperament is 100% in how it's raised."


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## tuco (Sep 14, 2009)

What exactly did Cash do? Who or what, was his target when he snapped?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I think, too, there is a difference between something triggering an individual dog and it "snaps" and saying that all <breed> will snap and attack their owner.

in the case of pits, dobes, other myth-shrouded dogs, that is what they are talking about. every single dobe/pit/GSD will some day turn on their owners and kill them


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