# Don Sullivan....Dealing with Aggression & Sep Anxiety



## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Just saw this guy in some youtube videos. Both dogs are GSD's with issues that are pretty common around here. I've seen similar methods work on lots of pet dogs. I like the things he says about the dog in the second video, about the excuses people make, etc...pretty basic stuff, but I know they are pretty common issues. It's awesome that a dog that originally had to take pills/drugs, can now be drug and stress free AND in such a SHORT amount of time. I know a lot of people are against punishment, but I have seen it "fix" so many dogs, so fast, and then they can move on, living their lives stress free (both owner and dogs). Just another option for people struggling with these common issues (DA, Separation anxiety...leading to destruction).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1IDp7MigDQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fel2WzMcDSg


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-theory-methods/131041-don-sullivans-perfect-dog-5.html

Just found this 4 year old discussion on this dude. Interesting thoughts from all. I don't think these methods should be used from the get go on a puppy. I think they are effective (as seen by the thousands of people that proclaim to have very well behaved dogs now as a result), and just another option for those struggling with mature dogs with issues. Especially difficult issues like aggression. 

I think a dog meant for sport or work will have it's own program very different than a strictly "pet" dog, I believe this is more for pet owners that just want an obedient dog, that are currently dealing with very common issues.

I went to the lake yesterday with the family and brought my corgi. I put him in a down while we made lunch, while we were down by the lake, etc...His down is dang near 100% reliable, he does not break it at all. There were a TON of dogs there. Nearly everyone that walked within ten feet of mine, barked, lunged, or pulled to get to him. I'm talking a TON of dogs. I didn't see a single one with basic, reliable, obedience. One picnic table over had a dog that actually had one of those nylon muzzles on and was lunging and growling at everyone that walked by the table it was tied to...while owners sat by drinking beer. The solution to their problem of aggression? Slap a muzzle on the dog, tie it to a table, and go about life. 

The people around this forum are not the "norm" in the pet/dog world. I would say most people's dogs have zero obedience, or good "tricks" at home, with no obedience once they have distractions. These people are either not going to fix their issues, or they will only do it if it's a "quick" fix. I don't have a feeling of that being right or wrong, I just think it is what it is. These types of programs are successful (I feel), because they are quick and get results. 

I have nothing against "longer" programs (I use one myself because I want to do sport with my dog), however...I understand the need for these types of programs (the short ones). The dogs aren't ruined afterwords, they aren't damaged, they are able to live life (I think) more enjoyably with their families. I am in support of ANY program that can get that result for families.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Simple common sense stuff. But common sense just isnt that comon these days..lol.
When you take away the emotion and you limit the dogs options to the outcome you desire through physical and mental management the transformation is always amazing.

Ofcourse you listen to some people on here the dog would be on a halty, uppers, downers, they would be working on thresholds for the next year etc etc.. 
The grand stories of how proud they where of their rescue baby when she was able to be alone for 15 minutes without destroying the car or peeing herself..etc etc..

We need more guys like him on TV and the net..

I will say though neither of those dogs were monsters or extreme cases. Just run of the mill stuff.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I have only ever seen the one or two videos of this guy, plus his infomercial stuff. 

But from what it looks like is basic, mainly balanced reward/correction redirection work. Nothing new or amazing. Correct the dog for unwanted behavior, praise when they do what you asked. 

Not a fan of the forcing the "down", still think you should teach before forcing. 

But I agree that for 95% of homes, this method is quick and gets them what they want. If they have a normal dog that just has no boundaries. It's pet dog training 101. 

Don't think he is anything special. It's a basic slip leash, a few pops, some praise. But nothing new or amazing, just good PR and marketing 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I agree, it is nothing amazing, but what I did l like was to hear him say "this is a dog with aggression." Period. Not, this dog is scared, this dog is over threshold, blah blah. Just, this is aggression, this dog has aggression in him, let's get that in the open and work from there. I think we'd all benefit from using the proper "labels". 

And I also agree that most people simply do not have the patience or ability to work their dog under threshold for years. I don't. Didn't like the down, would have liked to see more rewards layered in, but all in all, good basics for a pet dog owner. Better than many celebrity trainers.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

A quick question and some observations from a "Pet guy."  This strikes me as very similar to the Leerburgh "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" in a lot of ways.

I couldn't do the "down" or leash corrections with Rocky " he has "Wobblers" so allowances had to made. I did use a fabric/mesh muzzle for a bit but it never really seem to come into play and when I was comfortable with him being comfortable, I dropped it.

But it seemed like using it (muzzle) has a psychological component to it??

I also would think you teach a dog 'Down" first. But what I see with that dog was a dog with issues. My or my not know "Down?" Don't care your doing it and doing it now!

Can't argue with his results!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Muskeg said:


> I agree, it is nothing amazing, but what I did l like was to hear him say "this is a dog with aggression." Period. Not, this dog is scared, this dog is over threshold, blah blah. Just, this is aggression, this dog has aggression in him, let's get that in the open and work from there. I think we'd all benefit from using the proper "labels".


Sure, but sometimes that other stuff is as or more important than the simple statement that the dog has aggression. Why is the dog acting aggressive? What's the trigger? Is the aggression coming from a place of confidence or a place of fear or insecurity? The first dog might need to be taken down a peg with strong leadership, or be given an appropriate way to channel that aggression, but the second dog might be ruined with that approach, but could thrive with a completely different approach.

Or maybe you'd you deal with it the same way, regardless of the source of aggression?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

You can deal with it the same way regardless then work on the reason after with a dog with a clearer head.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Baillif said:


> You can deal with it the same way regardless then work on the reason after with a dog with a clearer head.


Exactly. Too many want to waste time soul searching. Why? Is he afraid? Is it his past? Is he dominant? 

Then after they create the story in their head to justify the behavior they treat the dog like its made out of glass. What could take 1 month turns into a year long process or in many cases is never completely addressed. Of course the excuses abound again.

In the end with the vast majority of cases if you provide firm consistent leadership / training and remove the dogs options:

The fearful/insecure type dogs feel safer and thus a lot of the behaviors go away.

The confident/dominant type dogs respect you and thus are open to the boundaries and training system you choose to impose upon them.

IMO you get what you get genetics wise but just about any dog can be molded into a functioning member of the household that can be taken out in public or left at home without fear of adverse consequences.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Baillif said:


> You can deal with it the same way regardless then work on the reason after with a dog with a clearer head.


Now this time I can say been there done that! 

In full agreement here! My guy had "people issues" technically I don't know if it was fear or aggression? Struck me that he was not fearful? But regardless, I wasn't having it!!

Leerburgh "Who Pets my Puppy or Dog" worked out just fine for me and Rocky, seven years later I am still enjoying my issue free dog!

Personally I think it's about the dog owners attitude, pro's don't take crap from dogs! By and large "most" pet people do!

Don't want to hurt Fife's feelings get's alot of folks in a world hurt!

Someone mentioned the lack of treats? I wasn't real big on treats myself. My take was pretty much...because I say so! 

And my primary means of corrections was tone of voice!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I'm ok with the methods for some dogs, but not all.

Bud had been abused horribly when I got him, I'm pretty sure checking and pushing would not have helped. He already thought humans were pieces of crap. I saw no reason to reinforce that. Or maybe I'm way off and he would have turned out better. I'm no expert, just a woman with dogs.

I do know that the stuff I watched even Shadow could take, but the forced down? I would have to choke her unconscious to force that. Again I think it's important to know your dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I didn't like how he equates barking with aggression. Dogs bark for many reasons, and in the first video (if I had to take a guess from that brief glimpse) I'd say the owner is a pushover and the dog is a combo of spoiled/bored, so seeing another dog pushes him over the top in arousal - yay, playtime - barkfest. I agree that 'labeling' a dog isn't in its best interest, so why label everything as aggression either? 

This just looks like regular compliance training to me, back the way all dogs (that were trained) was done. We all see untrained dogs all the time, at least I do: family last week, vets office yesterday...it's not the training that's wrong, it's the complete absence of it, lol. I'm always surprised when I see perfectly nice and promising dogs acting unruly with a wishy-washy owner. Not because of the dog, but because of the owner. I know that's none of my business and I shouldn't be judgmental...but I can't help that initial OMG moment, lol.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Too late to edit: old fashioned _compulsion_ training. Which works, as my first dog from long ago would prove. But just because I know it works doesn't mean that something else doesn't work better.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Blanketback said:


> Too late to edit: old fashioned _compulsion_ training. Which works, as my first dog from long ago would prove. But just because I know it works doesn't mean that something else doesn't work better.


Exactly!

I am hardly wimpy about corrections and such. Since the man who trained me was a Koehler student, I am firmly in the 'because I said so' camp.
What I have observed however, is that many of todays dogs are much softer then the dogs of 20 years ago, or 40. I have grown and learned and observed, and I am comfortable adapting the methods to suit the situation and the dog. I guess if I lacked the experience, or was in a hurry I would feel differently, but since I'm basically a peaceful person I see no reason to force a confrontation if I don't have to.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

What's most significant about the video is the handlers "attitude" in dealing with the dogs! Most likely the vast majority of folks committing get that. 

And yes we most likely would not need to be doing the forced downs and the hard checks on dogs we own.

I specifically trained my dogs to be carproof. They don't get out the door until I tell them to period! It looks like he accomplished that also at the same time! "Stay" pretty simple! 

Still I prefer my approach...basically putting the fear of God into them if they "dare" to step out without permission! But the guy did the same thing in one shot!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

My concern is that some people seem so afraid to label GSDs (and other protection breeds) as aggressive. It's OK for a dog to have genetic aggression, in fact, with GSD and malinois it is an important component of the breed. It's not a bad word. Aggression with high thresholds, strong nerves, biddability, clear head and training can be a great thing, a terrific thing in fact. Call it fight drive, or prey drive, or defense drive, it is still aggression (my terminology may be different than some). 

Certainly, some dogs with aggression are unbalanced, which is why nerves are so important. Either way, balanced or not, aggression needs to be addressed and channeled, but I have never personally seen someone meet success using the treat/click under threshold work with aggression. At least they never get to what I would consider success, which is off-leash control in the real world, within a reasonable time frame, like a few months. 

Corrections with a high-drive dog are almost unavoidable unless you can somehow avoid public places, other dogs, and other people your entire life. Bird-dog trainers correct their dogs very harshly for chasing "trash" (deer/rabbits) either with e-collar or check-cord or (old school) chasing the dog down and issuing harsh physical corrections. Same idea- the drive is in the dog to chase and hunt, but they want to channel that drive into controlled hunt of birds only. 

Similarly, our breed has drives like prey, defense, fight- which often result in unwanted aggressive behaviors if the handler is unskilled, dog is unbalanced, or both. 

A bit off topic, but I see similar issues with people's views on wildlife. We've got a lot more bears, coyotes, and wolves around in the lower 48 than anytime in the past 100 years or so. It is wrong to pretend that these animals are somehow cuddly and would never hurt a person or domestic animal. Of course they would, they are predators! It is only when we recognize a predator for what it is, and respect its ability to do harm, that we can figure out ways to live with these animals as harmoniously as possible. I see a great deal of value in restoring predators to the lower 48 (coyotes aren't leaving anytime soon anyway), but we need to have realistic expectations of the animals and act accordingly. 

While dogs are domesticated, and very different from wild animals, it is still important to recognize their capacity for harm and aggression, and not coddle an animal that is showing undesirable behaviors. I like Bart Bellon's methods with e-collar, try to adapt them to my needs. With my non-GSD dog I use bird-dog trainer methods to train recall, because he has very different drives and is a naturally soft dog compared to my shepherds. 

But the important thing is to be honest about your dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Muskeg said:


> Corrections with a high-drive dog are almost unavoidable unless you can somehow avoid public places, other dogs, and other people your entire life.


LOL "Bubble Dogs" we did that in another thread!

And yes the only way to ditch the "bubble" was to take the dog out in public! Be a responsible dog owner! That seem to be an issue for some...taking a "bubble dog in public"
Some folks seem to think...if the dog has a "people issue" then he should not be out in public!

And of course the level of correction needs to be adjusted to the dog you're working with! The leash corrections were a bit harsh for my taste but that dogs was out of control!

He got results and got them fast! And the dog seems just fine!

There are a whole host of correction tools available depending on the dog. Hopeful this thread can keep being a discussion and not a debate!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Blitz is right all in all it's easier to go to a great breeder. Socialization is for dogs with genetic predispositions to nervousness. A great dog with really great temperament will not need much if any socialization or counter conditioning.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

My now 17 week old puppy has fear aggression to dogs. I have DVDs on marker training, etc.; actually quite a library. And I am doing some of the beginning exercises (or games) from Control Unleashed. Lots of treats for "default" behaviors, "head whip," etc., and I think they are valuable behaviors. And I plan on continuing.

But I wii soon have a 60-pound plus male GSD on the end of the leash barking, hackles up, and snarling. I don't care WHY when it is happening. It has to stop, then I can work the exercises in Control Unleashed more effectively.

I went to a trainer with 30 years of Schutzhund experience and no-nonsense. Today, 10 days later, I was at the park with a big leashed dog jogging by with his owner and my dog at a sit with me 8 feet away from the trail. My dog actually looked relaxed and happy.

For me, some things are non-negotiables--getting yanked all over is one of them. I will extinguish bad behavior as quickly as I can (aggression does not go away on its own) and ignore the small stuff.

My dog found a big BBQ bone with meat on it at the park in the grass. Can't think of a treat that could've trumped that--I tried. Seeing treats were not working, I just got it out of his mouth threw it. My rules.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Moriah said:


> My dog found a big BBQ bone with meat on it at the park in the grass. Can't think of a treat that could've trumped that--I tried. Seeing treats were not working, I just got it out of his mouth threw it. My rules.


"Because I say" so FTW!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Then after they *create the story in their head to justify the behavior* they treat the dog like its made out of glass. What could take 1 month turns into a year long process or in many cases is never completely addressed. Of course the *excuses abound* again.


Baloney.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Muskeg said:


> My concern is that some people seem so afraid to label GSDs (and other protection breeds) as aggressive. It's OK for a dog to have genetic aggression, in fact, with GSD and malinois it is an important component of the breed. It's not a bad word. Aggression with high thresholds, strong nerves, biddability, clear head and training can be a great thing, a terrific thing in fact. Call it fight drive, or prey drive, or defense drive, it is still aggression (my terminology may be different than some).


I think you'll find you're preaching to the choir here.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

.....and ironically Don Sullivan used to train sea mammals including killer whales!



Bio here: The Perfect Dog


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

This is an old thread but I just wanted to add that I used Don Sullivan's methods (it is a method, not a collar) with my first German Shepherd, a working likes GSD, starting at 8 weeks. My dog at 10 months is doing very well. She works for praise, not for food, and I have the possibility of strong correction if needed. And believe me it is sometimes needed. At 10 months she knows 26 commands and performs under heavy distraction. However, might not be the best method for most soft dogs that you see today. For instance, it demoralized my whippet and was abandoned. You don't need to train sight hounds anyway. They just want to lie on a pillow and disappear with you and your horse at 40 mph.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Nurse Bishop said:


> This is an old thread but I just wanted to add that I used Don Sullivan's methods (it is a method, not a collar) with my first German Shepherd, a working likes GSD, starting at 8 weeks. My dog at 10 months is doing very well. She works for praise, not for food, and I have the possibility of strong correction if needed. And believe me it is sometimes needed. At 10 months she knows 26 commands and performs under heavy distraction. However, might not be the best method for most soft dogs that you see today. For instance, it demoralized my whippet and was abandoned. You don't need to train sight hounds anyway. They just want to lie on a pillow and disappear with you and your horse at 40 mph.


So even though my dog obeys and behaves and he can take a correction, its less valid because I used food ? No offense Nurse, but is that really the true measure of something? You didn't use food? I'm almost embarrassed to admit to using toys.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

One thing that bothered me bigtime about his methods is the disguised plastic prong collar that was his miracle collar or something? One of my clients followed his program and still has his collar on her dog 24/7
I've removed it when I have found it tangled in her coat. Doodle dog that is less than 40#, no need for a prong whatsoever for that dog.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

And what were his nylon ropes? Freedom lines or some stupid thing?


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Any piece of light rope or parachute cord can be used for those lines to teach recall. The collar was a mild plastic prong collar. It is not supposed to be left on the dog, as with any prong collar. It worked for us, we got good results. I have not used food to train my dog. Recently, I have used food to teach the Leave It command, since the command is about not eating food she finds or dead salmon that could infect dogs with salmon sickness in the Pacific North West. I tried using food with her other commands. No difference in response. She works for praise and pets.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Baloney.


Hmm ... is two and a half years years to late to disagree?? Nothing changed in "Dog World" since this thread. I think Blitzkrieg1, nailed it "exactly" for those who "Can't." 

I use a different set of qualifiers myself ... I call it "Couch Sessions" for uh ... "Losers" ... to wit "Let's put "Foo Foo" on the Couch" and discuss her "issues" and see if we can come to a reasonable resolution?? People still do that and those dogs are still out of control.

I just had one a freaking massive "Pitty" stray and this time ... no "Rocky" to interfere with my rescue attempt (nother story) so I got her!!! 
She loved people and "Rocky" thought she was freaking great!! Only ... issue was Cats!!! 

A crate ... would have been "ideal" but as I did not have one, leash and consequences ... it was Don't ...Chase the Cats!! One stupid cat caved me up up ... my bad ... I should add ... "hands off the freaking cat" to my cat advise! But within 24 hours ... even my aptly named cat "Spooky." Came out and greeted this new beast with head butts once she "volunteered" to lay down and wait!! 

No "Couch" sessions and no "back story" required ... the dog had "Serious Prey Drive Issues!!?? And I was honestly surprised that the change was accomplished in 24 hours??? But ..."Spooky" verified the change in "attitude" I merely observed. 

Aww well ... long way off saying "Blitzkrieg1" "nailed it" ... people that search for "backstories" struggle! Those that "practice" ... "Because I say so" ... get it done. Granted ... you still have to know what your doing ... but if you start out "looking for a suitable couch" to find solutions ... most likely your gonna end up in the land of "Fail???" 

Just my 'two cents" from the "Real World."


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Actually her comment came three days after the original post, soooo not 2 years later. *grin*

My dog doesn't care about praise or pets. In fact, he'll move away from them if he's intent on your advancing the game (ball). He's not going to work for that. Find what works, but not all dogs will work for the same thing. He does it 'because I say so', or 'because I want the ball she has', but he feels pets are only for when you need your butt scratched, not because you did something correctly.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Don Sullivan, in his training CDs, does also advocate play as a reward in addition to praise. It is not an All Positive method. I suppose it is a Because I say so method because disobedience is not an option. If a dog breaks the stay it is just taken back to the spot, not corrected or the command repeated. The dog knows what it did and is given another chance to obey. I notice a lot of people who dis his methods have not tried them. It is basically your standard obedience course where there are rewards for desired behavior and also consequences for deliberate misbehavior when the dog KNOWS the command but blows it off. I'm just saying it worked great for my dog, not trying to start a war or anything.


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