# Not even two, and already gave someone 17 stitches...HELP!!!



## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

I have a male German Shepherd, who is going to be two in May. He has gone through training, but something has happened. Recently he has started to growl, over the simpliest things, and does it out of no where. Well Sunday night, I found myself in the emergency room because Luno, decided to attack a friend of mine. What had happened was he had been laying in his cage, and my friend kept trying to get him out, he did not want to and growled at her to warn her, she didnt get the hint and kept trying. Finally he got fed up, and jumped on her. Now, the wound does not look like a bite, because it is just a straight line, and she escalated the problem, but I am still screwed! Someone please help me and tell me what my options are, and how do I stop this from happening again, he is like a child to me, and I do not want to see something happen to him!!


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

The cage is his den, his domain I dont recomend letting anyone who the dog doesnt see as his master mess with his domain, they can be real touchy about that. I hope everything works out for you and your gsd Maby mention this to your vet too, maby he has something medical going on.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You should have told her to get the heck away from your dog. The dog has warned her. You and her should have listened. 

Irresponsible behavior at it's best. Can't be nice about it. The dog is going to pay for it... just great.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

What did your friend tell the doctors working with her? 

Was animal control called?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sorry to read this...
Your friend should have heeded the warning. Does he know your friend? 
Has he had vetting recently(feels ok?) 
I'm not condoning his actions, but understand why he did this. 
You as his owner should have intervened when you heard his growl.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

As his owner it is your responsibility to keep him safe.
When I have friends over (or family even) nobody messes with my dogs unless I want them to.
His crate should have been in a room with a door closed so nobody was fiddling with him.

So do all that now and pray Animal control doesn't take him. 
However, if you cannot handle him in a more responsible manner, it might be best to give him up to animal control.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What state do you live in? Look up the dangerous dog laws and find out what the laws are.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

you must be devastated! i have no advice for you other than never trust him again when someone is in your house, he is now a liability. i wonder if he might be in some type of pain? anyway there are a lot of pros on this forum who can help you in detail. good luck to you


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

I was not in the room when this happened, or else I would of tried to stop it and he has always been great with people, and he knew her very well. What had happened was, he was outside and I had let him in, he ran upstairs and went in his cage, and her and a friend where already upstairs and she had known that he had started to growl lately. I just feel that it is unfair that I have to pay for the entire medical bill when she caused the problem. And since this is his first offence, he will be fine. Animal Control was not called, and I am quite capable of taking care of my animals, accidents happen and sometimes you have no control over them happening, just things to learn by and to make sure they do not happen again. I just need advice how to stop this.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

You keep him away from your friends and consult a professional behaviorist.
As his owner you are 100% responsible.


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

**And she told the doctors it was her fault because she kept trying to get him out of the cage, which was completley true. If my boyfriend hadn't walked up the stairs, injuries may have been worse, so I am thankful he got up there when it had happened.


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## gsd_newbie (Aug 23, 2011)

I personal believe that it was you and your friend's fault. You should had stop your friend from trying to force your dog out of his den (the crate), and your friend should had not ignore the warning (the growl). Dogs are living creature, not a toy so please give them a little respect and distance. Hope that both of you recover soon.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

We can't give you advise based on your statements. We would have to see it happening. Get a good trainer, not a petco type trainer, and work on the problem. 

Other than that, manage him. Whenever somebody is coming in... it's not so much about trusting your dog but trusting your friends not to do something stupid.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If she was treated by a Dr and they knew it was a dog bite, don't they legally have to report it?(just saw your other post about her explaination~good that she knows she was at fault) Get back into training with a good trainer to help you manage him. Practice NILIF!
Get a muzzle if you feel he will be safer from doing harm. Get a vet check.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Victoria1225 said:


> I was not in the room when this happened, or else I would of tried to stop it and he has always been great with people, and he knew her very well. What had happened was, he was outside and I had let him in, he ran upstairs and went in his cage, and her and a friend where already upstairs and she had known that he had started to growl lately. I just feel that it is unfair that I have to pay for the entire medical bill when she caused the problem. And since this is his first offence, he will be fine. Animal Control was not called, and I am quite capable of taking care of my animals, accidents happen and sometimes you have no control over them happening, just things to learn by and to make sure they do not happen again. I just need advice how to stop this.


Best advice: no one is allowed to interact with your dog while crated.... try it politely first, be rude if needed, this needs to be 100% followed.

Have your dog checked by the vet, find out if there is a physical reason for the growling, then contact your trainer

And yes, while it may be expensive, you may not like it.... your dog, your house, you are responsible for the bill


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Unfortunately homeowner's insurance and animal control (although not notified in this case) don't see it that way (that it's shared responsibility that is).


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

First off, so sorry this happened!!! It is hard to suggest training tips based on the information given. I know it must have been very traumatic to you and your friend. But, that example doesn't really provide insight into what might be going on beyond the fact that your dog was uncomfortable with someone repeatedly intruding into their safe space (i.e. crate)... However, it sounded like you observed growling behavior that preceded the incident with your friend... it would be helpful to understand those occasions more before offering advice.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

Sorry to hear that. Is he neutered? At age 2 he is coming into his adult temperament so he may not want people other then his pack interacting with him. He needs to be crated when you have guests over and make sure they don't bother him. Know you know that he is capable of biting so be very careful with him. As for the random growling, you will need a professional to evaluate and train you guys. Also consider getting personal liability insurance to cover bills in case he bites again. My husband grew up with a Chow that bit someone and his family was sued for ten thousand dollars.


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Victoria1225 said:


> I was not in the room when this happened, or else I would of tried to stop it and he has always been great with people, and he knew her very well. What had happened was, he was outside and I had let him in, he ran upstairs and went in his cage, and her and a friend where already upstairs and she had known that he had started to growl lately. I just feel that it is unfair that I have to pay for the entire medical bill when she caused the problem. And since this is his first offence, he will be fine. Animal Control was not called, and I am quite capable of taking care of my animals, accidents happen and sometimes you have no control over them happening, just things to learn by and to make sure they do not happen again. I just need advice how to stop this.


Excuse me, but I'm having trouble feeling sorry for you. You come here to complain because you have to pay for the medical bill?  How about the pain and suffering of your friend? How about the scars?

I have alluded to being a bit shy around other large dogs sometimes and let me tell you why: I was viciously attacked by a dog I knew. Bites and scrapes on all four limbs, and an ugly gash on my left thigh. I didn't sue or call animal control because this dog was owned by a member of my husband's family. He went on to bite several times afterwards, and nothing was ever done. ("Connected" people in a small town...) I sincerely wish I HAD done something, because I knew the owners would continue to be irresponsible, and they were.

Take responsibility for your dog and your dog's actions, now. 

If my wording seems harsh, it's meant to be. Take action before it's too late for your dog or his next victim.  i realize that your dog's territory was invaded, but his actions are still your responsibility.


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

I know dog's are not toys, and if I was in the room I wouldn't of allowed that. I had no idea what was going on because I wasn't upstairs, I was on my way up the stairs when this happened. And for everyone else, thank you, I love my dog and will do anything to keep him and others safe, now knowing what he is capable of. I wish it had not happened this way, but we all learn from our mistakes.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Also consider getting personal liability insurance to cover bills in case he bites again.


Insurance won't even touch that(to insure her)! 
If anything the insurer she has may cancel her if they get wind of this.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

A dog is a dog is a dog is a dog... and a dog in his crate should never be messed with. If any of your friends does that ever again, show them the door. Be very clear about NOT messing with a dog in his crate. The same goes for food, by the way.


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

I am not asking you to feel sorry for me, nor do you understand the situation. He would have never bit her if she hadn't tried to get him out of the cage. He was in his cage for a reason and she knew that. I understand it is my responsibility, I am just asking what I do now, to go about training and further growling.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Get a good trainer/behaviorist. That's all you can do. Without knowing what the problem is, without seeing the dog we can't give you any other advise except for GET A GOOD TRAINER! 

Look for a SchH Club in your area. Usually the training directors are well versed dog handlers and understand GSD Behavior and Aggression issues very well and can help you.


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

Thank you very much, it is appreciated.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

And like I said. Make sure that your friends understand NOT to mess with your dog. If they do, show them the door. Be consequent about it. Good luck.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

If you post your location, someone might have a trainer suggestion for you.


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## [email protected] (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm so sorry that this happened. I would be worried too death for my poor dog. Hopefully there won't be any follow up medical attention needed and you can just pay the bill and consider it an expensive lesson learned. I would get your dog to a vet immediately if he is suddenly showing aggressive behavior for no reason. There may be something physically wrong with him that you can't see. Your friend should have known better BUT... ultimately you are responsible because they are a guest in your home and your dog (left unattended) became territorial and basically attacked her. I pray it all works out for you.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Just a question!! Have you noticed any discomfort in your pup? For some reason while reading your thread I keep thinking maybe he wasn't or isn't feeling well and that may have provoked a attack?

Just a thought!!


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I feel bad for everyone-- your friend, you and your boy. That had to be scary and upsetting and devastating all at the same time. Since you didn't witness the incident all you have to go on is how your friend perceived the situation and thankfully she took responsibility- not everyone would. See if you can find a trainer/behaviorist to do an in-home evaluation and look into some classes and training.


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

Collegeville, Pennsylvania is my location. I just turned 18 and have been working with him as much as I can and paid for training, just with school and work he is becoming a very expensive little boy but thank you all for the help, God bless.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Bet you anything the dog has given signs of not being totally secure . Your own words ". Recently he has started to growl, over the simpliest things, and does it out of no where."

Management -- the dog comes in wants to rush to his crate to avoid company and get some privacy - surprise what he wanted to avoid is right there " he was outside and I had let him in, he ran upstairs and went in his cage, and her and a friend where already upstairs "

But you were aware and so was your friend " she had known that he had started to growl lately. " So you exposed her to risk by allowing the dog and your company to be in the same space. The dog should have been put safely away before your company came , which means in the crate , with the door closed, in a room with no access to non-family "company" , or a kennel outside . No inter action while he is showing this discomfort and aggression. 

Pay the medical bill and be thankful that there is not more grief coming your way . You can't control people . You are responsible for the safety of invited guests in your home and even strangers to your front door.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

carmspack said:


> Pay the medical bill and be thankful that there is not more grief coming your way . You can't control people . You are responsible for the safety of invited guests in your home and even strangers to your front door.


Pretty much.


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

I know what has to be done, there is no reason for rudeness I am trying the best I can.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

*Pennsylvania*


OG Keystone Schutzhund Club
 Joe Brockington
Millerstown, PA 
347-370-2300 
Greater Philadelphia Schutzhund Club 
 Barbara Hill
Tylersport, PA 
215-257-1565 
Hegins Valley Police and Schutzhund Club
Margaret Faust
Shamokin, PA 
570-644-2458 
Lehigh Valley SchH & Police Assoc.
Tina Werkheiser
Walnutport, PA 
610-216-9618 
 Mid-Atlantic Working Dog Club
Molly Graf
717-776-5110 
 Sugar Run Schutzhund Club
 Phyllis Tustin
Claysville, PA 
724-663-3647


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

Thank you very much! I will look into them!!


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Victoria1225 said:


> I know what has to be done, there is no reason for rudeness I am trying the best I can.


You're only eighteen years old? Do you still live with your parent(s)? It seems that you have an awful lot on your plate at such a young age. Are you sure you are ready for the responsibility of dog ownership? Owning a german shepherd is a lot different than owning a ten pound shih tzu. 

I wish the best for you and your dog, but you have taken on a huge responsibility and now you will have to pay for it. Can you really do this?

Good luck.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Victoria1225 said:


> I know what has to be done, there is no reason for rudeness I am trying the best I can.


We understand but it's distressing because it's another bad mark for our breed 

The time to try is before things happen. As others said, expensive and painful lesson.
But bites are rarely unprovoked.

As much as others may balk (or insist this won't help) if he's not neutered, please get that taken care of and also get ahold of those trainers, also see about paying the bill on payments (not all at once).
I think that any time a dog is involved, rabies things must be attended to, including a possible quarantine which sounds more difficult than it is.
I hope things work out for you and for your dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

17 stitches is a pretty harsh lesson. Your friend is paying for her foolishness in physical pain, you will have to pay for it in dollars and cents. Sorry. It can be much worse. Pay the bill before your freind becomes and enemy and sues you. If your Home-owner's insurance drops you, you will have a very hard time getting insurance again. If you are renting, if she goes after a law suit, your landlord may tell you to get rid of the dog. 

So please apologize, say that you are seeking help with training the dog, and pay the medical expenses, if you have to beg or borrow to do it. 

Now, for the dog. Well, he is going from puppy to adult, and it can be hormones, it can be weak leadership, it can be fear-aggression/avoidance. At under two, pain is unlikely, but you never know. 

What I would do, First off, I would manage the environment so that nobody the dog does not live with is near enough to him to get bitten. I would neuter the dog, give him a week or two to heal, then go into classes, and work with him every day, both to exercise his mind and his body, and to build the confidence/trust between you and the dog. I would continue this for 12 months and then re-evaluate. 

Good luck with your dog. I hope you can turn him around. But if not, I hope that you can feel comfortable about how to manage him.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Not rude -- if you don't understand what is going on this episode may be a good experience compared to what else might happen. You can not be casual when the dog has given fair warning that something is wrong with its state of mind and that it is "growly" , touchy . 
You probably should keep other people away from your dog . Make sure you have a good fence and gate 
when you put the dog outside without supervision .

xxxxxxx and everything that ms Selzer said.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Victoria1225 said:


> I know what has to be done, there is no reason for rudeness I am trying the best I can.


You came here for advice and people are giving you some really important things to think about. It's terrible that this has happened to your friend and your dog but if you want to prevent it from happening again, it's important to understand you made a mistake and didn't monitor your dog after multiple signs were given because only then can you really make sure this doesn't happen again. Unless you really see the problem, you won't be able to fix it. There is some wonderful advice on here and some very experienced people who love this breed. They're trying to help you


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## Victoria1225 (Feb 23, 2012)

He has a secure yard. And I will do as told, thanks for the advice. And yes only 18 but I will do my best


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## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Victoria1225 said:


> He has a secure yard. And I will do as told, thanks for the advice. And yes only 18 but I will do my best


 
Good luck, Victoria. At your age, you've taken on a huge responsibility. I hope you have a good support system in place.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Victoria, I admire you for coming to this forum seeking advice and information! You are very young yet your responses to the advice that has been given here show that you are open to ideas and input! As I mentioned in my earlier post, I would focus on trying to understand the occasions when your dog started to become "growly" that are separate from the incident with your friend who kept invading your dog's crate space. Please elaborate on those so that members, who are far more experienced than me, can give you more targeted advice!


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## Renofan2 (Aug 27, 2010)

Hi Victoria. I grew up in Collegeville, so small world. You are not far from Jim Hill (Greater Philadelphia Schutzhund Club). I train my dogs in Schutzhund there but he also trains for this type of issue. He is only about 25 minutes from you. I believe the number is listed above, but if you need more information, please feel free to send me a message and I will provide whatever help you need to find a qualified trainer in your area.

Cheryl


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Under PA law you are legally responsible for paying for those medical bills. Yes, I agree it was partially her fault but the other end of hte fault lies with you. Knowing he was growling, you should have crated him and told everyone to leave him alone.

Pennsylvania Dog Bite Law

However, note this sentence



> The victim must prove that the dog inflicted severe injury on him without provocation.


She admitted fault so that may save your dog.

Do more research into the dog bite laws in PA and get a trainer to help you with his reactivity. There are lots of ppl in PA on here. Take advantage of Renofan2's offer to help find a good trainer.


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## benbennett (Feb 14, 2012)

*Control the situation.*

1) Any dog , any dog given the right conditions will bite. 
2) 80% of dogs PTS for aggression weigh over 50 lbs. 

If you love you dog control the situation . I have gone far enough to kick a family member out of the home after they wouldn't stop teasing my dog in his kennel. 

Finally keep everyone away from his kennel. I put a big "No humans allowed " sign on his kennel. I lock the room from the inside , so no one can even by chance get in the room. while bunch of people are over.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Has anyone suggested having your dog medically evaluated? (Sorry but I didn't read through the thread) Any time there is a sudden change in behavior you should go straight to the vet. Be sure to have his thyroid checked because that can cause aggressive behavior.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Victoria,
In all seriousness... WHO in their right mind approaches a German Shepherd Dog in their crate, and ATTEMPTS to remove them, without as much as being concerned about getting bit?

GSD can be somewhat imposing as it is. A growling GS in their crate should be enough to scare anyone away.

I'll be the first to as.... WHY was your friend trying to remove the dog from the crate?


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