# Vaccines in puppies...



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

So, I may be missing something, but I have been wondering this for a few days so I figured I'd ask about it to see if anyone had the answer for me.

Puppies get about three sets of shots to make sure they get them right after their mom's immunity wears off, since we don't know for sure when that window ends... correct? Moving on...

We don't take puppies out in public because we don't want to risk them getting parvo, distemper, etc. in case the shots they have didn't take because they were immune and then the immunity wore off and they still don't have them, etc... 

So if we're not taking puppies out and exposing them to these things to prevent it, why are we even bothering to vaccinate at 8 and 12/13 weeks? Why not just wait until 16 weeks when they'd get the last shot and then take them out? It seems like a waste of money and their bodies. I wouldn't want to vaccinate my puppy more than was neccessary, and this just doesn't seem necessary... 

Ideas?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

This is a TOTAL guess, but... could it have something to do with the amount of chemicals being administered at one given time?


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Puppies typically get 3 sets of shots, yes. Just because they don't go out and about does not mean they cannot get parvo; it just means you're greatly decreasing the chances. You yourself can come in contact with parvo outside and come back home with it on your shoes, clothes, self, etc which then puts your puppy at risk. Personally I think shots at 8 weeks are about useless so I typically wait until about 10 weeks to have a greater shot of it having effect, unless it's 'parvo season'.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I guess I don't follow? I'm apparently new to how vaccines work, so you may need to spell this out for me...

All of the vaccines are essentially the exact same dose/vaccine, correct? They are just given at different times so that ONE (or two) of them will be after the mom's immunity wears off and their immune systems can take the vaccine into "storage". So there shouldn't be different amounts of chemicals going in each time.

^ Directed to Elisabeth.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Verivus said:


> Puppies typically get 3 sets of shots, yes. Just because they don't go out and about does not mean they cannot get parvo; it just means you're greatly decreasing the chances. You yourself can come in contact with parvo outside and come back home with it on your shoes, clothes, self, etc which then puts your puppy at risk. Personally I think shots at 8 weeks are about useless so I typically wait until about 10 weeks to have a greater shot of it having effect, unless it's 'parvo season'.


I know the chances of parvo and how it's transmitted, but that's not what I'm discussing. If you're going to bring it home when your puppy has no immunity and hasn't gotten another shot yet(because you're waiting 3-4 weeks), it can get parvo. If you bring it home and the puppy's immunity wore off and you never got a single shot, the puppy can get it. AND _MIGHT _just be healthier because he didn't get that vaccine that he can fight it stronger.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I know the chances of parvo and how it's transmitted, but that's not what I'm discussing. If you're going to bring it home when your puppy has no immunity and hasn't gotten another shot yet(because you're waiting 3-4 weeks), it can get parvo. If you bring it home and the puppy's immunity wore off and you never got a single shot, the puppy can get it. AND _MIGHT _just be healthier because he didn't get that vaccine that he can fight it stronger.


Well that isn't what your OP was asking; at least that wasn't how I interpreted it. And honestly, I would rather vaccinate then take the chances of letting my puppy take care of getting over parvo or distemper on his/her own just because I think vaccines aren't worth squat at his age and that he/she _MIGHT_ be more able to fight it off.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Verivus said:


> Well that isn't what your OP was asking; at least that wasn't how I interpreted it. And honestly, I would rather vaccinate then take the chances of letting my puppy take care of getting over parvo or distemper on his/her own just because I think vaccines aren't worth squat at his age and that he/she _MIGHT_ be more able to fight it off.


I asked why we were vaccinating puppies at 8/10/12 weeks old. Not how parvo was transmitted... 

If the dog gets parvo/distemper, a vaccine that was useless on it isn't going to make a difference, but if they are healthier because they NEVER got a vaccine (the theory), then they may be stronger to fight.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

DJEtzel said:


> I asked why we were vaccinating puppies at 8/10/12 weeks old.


It's because it's not known when the maternal antibodies will wear off. It's presumed that parvo is everywhere. Some pups may have maternal antibodies for parvo wear off at 10 weeks, while their distemper maternal antibodies wear off at, say 9 weeks. So there is that risk of them being vulnerable, versus the risk of the multiple vaccines.

For that pup whose maternal antibodies have worn off at 10 weeks, waiting until week 16 leaves them vulnerable for too long. If you had enough $$$, you could titer to determine those maternal levels, that would tell you precisely when they have waned and the pup can be successfully vaccinated. But then too, the last pup vaccine, should be after 16 weeks when the immune system is mature enough to respond and give long term immunity (so that boosters aren't ever required).


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Some info: Vaccination Recommendations for Puppies (Puppy Shots)


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I guess I don't count since I take my puppy out and have since 6 weeks old. I vaccinated when I got her, she gets her second set on Monday (10 weeks) and will get a 3rd set in another 4 weeks when she is 14 weeks old. Rabies will be given at 6 months.

I'm just careful about where I take her, if we go to a pet store or something she is either carried or I take a towel and put it in the cart so she can sit in there. She never touches the ground or sniffs around with other dogs. I also take her to outdoor shopping malls, restaurants/ice cream shops/coffee houses/ect that have outdoor seating, non-pet stores that allow dogs (ie. Bass Pro, Tractor Supply) things like that. But again, because she is a tiny dog, I rarely put her down even if it's not a "high" dog traffic area. The general idea is just for her to be exposed to the sights, sounds and people.

As someone else pointed out (And I know this isn't the point of your post, I'm just saying) a dog can get things like parvo regardless. When I was a kid I had a dog who never left our yard (no walks, socializing, nothing) and got parvo. I feel like the risk of infection (So long as you're still careful with how you go about taking your puppy out) is a much smaller issue than an undersocialized dog given that this is the most important time in your dogs life to get out there and see the world.


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## RoseRegn (Feb 17, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Puppies get about three sets of shots to make sure they get them right after their mom's immunity wears off, since we don't know for sure when that window ends... correct?


Technically you could determine where that window is by doing a nomograph for the litter based on an antibody titer of the bitch. The drawbacks to this are the time and costs it takes to do the testing; and that the antibodies for parvo, distemper, etc. wear off at different times. So it's simpler and cheaper to do a series of vaccinations.



DJEtzel said:


> Why not just wait until 16 weeks when they'd get the last shot and then take them out? It seems like a waste of money and their bodies. I wouldn't want to vaccinate my puppy more than was neccessary, and this just doesn't seem necessary...


I don't like vaccines, and I don't think anyone likes the thought of vaccinating more than necessary, but waiting until the pup is 16 weeks (~3.68 months) before taking them out means you would be missing out on quite a lot of early socialization, positive confidence-building experiences, etc. As ChancetheGSD said, the best thing to do is to just be careful where you take your puppy.

Parvo is pretty much everywhere - it's just so easy to track from one place to another. Chances are, even if you or your pup never leave the house, it will still end up in your yard or home because of visitors. Plus, parvo can survive for over a year, so it can be hard to keep it away - unless you're bleaching your entire home and yard all the time.



DJEtzel said:


> If the dog gets parvo/distemper, a vaccine that was useless on it isn't going to make a difference, but if they are healthier because they NEVER got a vaccine (the theory), then they may be stronger to fight.


These diseases are so deadly (and so easy to catch - especially parvo) that I honestly don't believe that the tiny bit "stronger" the pup may be by not having the vaccines would make any real difference. From my understanding, distemper has a survival rate of only 20%. And many dogs die from parvo in only 48-72 hours after showing symptoms. If untreated, it is fatal in virtually all cases. Treatment is very expensive and still not a guarantee. The risk of catching the disease outweighs the possible side-effects of the vaccine in this case.

Taking the risks into account, it would be in your favor to vaccinate in a series to have the best chance of effectively providing immunization for your pup. Alternatively, you could see about asking your breeder if it would be possible to have an antibody titer (mentioned above) done if you only want to vaccinate for parvo and distemper once each. However, from what I have read, you can no longer get a single-antigen vaccine for distemper only. There is one for parvo only, and distemper + parvo, but not for just distemper.

Below is a good video series on vaccines to watch if you have the time (53min,11sec). In particular, I think these sections would be of most interest to you:

Part 1 - 05:16-07:02, 07:47-12:21
Part 2 - 00:00-11:11, 12:14-12:48
Part 4 - 08:48-12:53


















Hope this helps! :blush:


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