# Kira to the rescue!!



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Just want to say that these GSD's are just so brilliant, it's amazing.

Last night, I was wrestling with my kids on the floor. I was pinned down, and my 8, and 13 year old daughter were "ganging up on me" 
My wife decides that she wanted a piece of me too, so she jumps in. They were playfully slapping me, and just having fun.
When my wife jumped in, I started to act as if I was in distress. 
At that point, Kira comes running from the other side of the house, and starts grabbing each family member one by one, by either their shirt or pant leg, and starts pulling them away from me.
As she's doing this, she's moaning, and groaning (not growling). My wife and kids played along, and allowed her to pull them away.
She didn't stop until they were all removed, and when I was finally free from underneath, she gave me the biggest face bath 

Then she turned around to each family member, and kissed them silly 

Needless to say, she didn't approve of the horse play.

Just thought I'd share.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

That's a cute story, but I have to caution you - this can backfire on you bigtime! I know this from firsthand experience and it could get very ugly. My mom and I used to play that game too with our family dog when I was growing up. Yikes, it got to the point that if I crossed my mom too closely in the hallway, the dog would bite me. The dog believed that he had to protect my mother from me. Well, that's what we taught him, it wasn't his fault. Please take my warning to heart and don't play that game anymore.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> That's a cute story, but I have to caution you - this can backfire on you bigtime! I know this from firsthand experience and it could get very ugly. My mom and I used to play that game too with our family dog when I was growing up. Yikes, it got to the point that if I crossed my mom too closely in the hallway, the dog would bite me. The dog believed that he had to protect my mother from me. Well, that's what we taught him, it wasn't his fault. Please take my warning to heart and don't play that game anymore.


I don't see that with Kira. This dog is so lovable. She's very close to the wife and the children, and myself, and very neutral. 

Kira will never bite in my house


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

In my case, it didn't start with any malicious intent either. I was actually very close to the dog for a few years, before this started. We obviously took the game too far, but we made an honest mistake. And you might continue this game and never have a problem. But for anyone else reading this, thinking it might be a fun game to play, I really advise you not to start this, because you don't know where it will end up.

ETA: Kira won't bite in your house, but she's already started using her mouth to pull people away in the game. All biting starts somewhere, it's not just a random chomp out of the blue - in a "normal" dog anyway.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony the scenario is not that different from the "fun" when you sicked the dog on your wife


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Anthony the scenario is not that different from the "fun" when you sicked the dog on your wife


Come on Carmen, the dog was licking everyone's face. 
You mean to tell me that you never rough housed with your dog ?



Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I don't approve of this "horseplay" either. Your dog should never be allowed to bite and pull on your clothing. The fact that she licked everyone afterward does NOT mean Kira understood this to mean play, fun and games. She was probably confused.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

It's the same -- the dog already has problems with unwanted aggression to guests in the house -- licking could be her submission in confusion , her being anxious about it.


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## LissG (Jun 18, 2011)

anthony, that's a really cute story  millions of people rough house with their dogs all over the world and most haven't been chewed to death by their dog.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Anthony, by now you should understand the motion towards your dog in the forum. 

No matter what she does, to the forum she is a fear aggressive dog and you did well to portray her like that. 

So this is the outcome. You will not be able to post anything about your dog without the audience picking it apart.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Mrs K has a point, so first let me say this is all based on IF Kira is reactive or fearful. 

Fun game if Kira understands it but like others have said, there's a real risk that she doesn't and it could backfire. Because Kira seems to be reactive, it makes her unpredictable. Yesterday she pulled people away and gave kisses, tomorrow she may bite. You really don't want to give a reactive dog permission to guard you or anything else. 
When you do these kind of things (and most of us do at one time or another) try to see the big picture. *What is she learning, how is she processing the information and is she capable of making the right decision when it happens again. *I hope that makes sense. 

If you want to wrestle with the kids it would be a good time to teach Kira how to remain calm when there's a lot of commotion going on. Make her sit, let your wife give her treats while she watches the game. If she tries to grab or move one of the kids tell her no, make her sit again.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It's not just _his_ dog.
My daughter's dog will barely let me touch her in the AM to "shake" her awake. She's a hard sleeper and hard to wake up. 
And when I go in he starts guarding, he's a 15lb. Dachshund. 
I just pick him up and move him off the bed.

Dogs are very "strange" in that they perceive things all on their own and act on those perceptions.
Because dogs don't use logic (only their own), "games" like this can have ugly consequences, like it or not.

What stuns me is that Anthony keeps setting Kira up like this, not that she's doing what she's doing, or may do in the future. Why do stuff like this when you can play fetch or tug or something else with the dog to engage it?

It's up to the owner to keep the dog "safe" and that means from being ran over in the road, _or_ becoming a bite statistic.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well I will respectively disagree with the nay sayers, Anthony I'll send you a bill for this when I'm done))

My first GSD as an adult was out of kirschental working lines, the most stable, solid, balanced gsd I'll most likely ever have. 

I do not have kids, at the time, I did however, have a couple of very young nephews and a adolescent daughter of a friend of mine around occasionally.

I never really had Jake around kids much, there just weren't any around. BUT, everytime we came upon a kid, Jake was in heaven

We all would joke that Jake was the big "babysitter"..Examples, the nephews were around 4-5, 7-8 at the time..The youngest would be splashing, screaming, waving arms in the kiddie pool, as soon as the kid exhibited this behavior, he was there, dragging the kid out of the pool by the seat of his pants..Did he think the kid was drowing? In trouble? I don't know..but if the kid was quiet/calm in the pool, Jake was fine with that.

The two nephews ruff housing, Jake would grab the older one by the seat of his pants, and pull him off the younger one. Again, did Jake think the kid was in trouble?? don't know.

The daughter of my friend, was over one day, my husband was swinging her around by her arms, Jake went up to him and was mouthing HIS arm and pulling, trying to get him to let go of the kid..

There were other incidents , , any time this went on, Jake ws not nasty, not growly, just 'did it', happy, licking, wagging his tail that all was ok..

Kids around, he would lay there tuned in to what was going on and ready to step in if he 'felt it was needed'.

No I never corrected him for it, because I 'knew" this dog, and I'm sure there are other dogs out there like this, and I'm sure there are dogs that could end up having an issue with this type of behavior. 

Just my experience with one wonderful dog I had, so anthony guess we'll both be standing in front of the firing squad LOL...


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I predict another very long thread.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

sunflower so do I


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> well I will respectively disagree with the nay sayers, Anthony I'll send you a bill for this when I'm done))
> 
> My first GSD as an adult was out of kirschental working lines, the most stable, solid, balanced gsd I'll most likely ever have.
> 
> ...


 
Put me in front also as i have had a couple of dogs (very stable temp. on both) who loved to play with us physically and did so for years with nary a slip of the jaw!

Dogs have extremely good bite control and understand playing - ever see two friendly dogs rough housing. Same with their people. I have no fear whatsoever about Baron (90lb male and current dog) biting when we are playing! If he gets the least bit over excited a simple "OW" and he is transformed into licking!

I have no problem with his teeth touching skin!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> My first GSD as an adult was out of kirschental working lines, the most stable, solid, balanced gsd I'll most likely ever have.





> No I never corrected him for it, because I 'knew" this dog, and I'm sure there are other dogs out there like this, and I'm sure there are dogs that could end up having an issue with this type of behavior.


Exactly... your dog was stable, solid, and balanced. Kira, bless her heart, is not.

I'm not saying she's suddenly going to start biting people as a result of this horseplay, I just don't see anything positive coming from it. Hopefully she will forget about it and it won't cause any harm. At worst, she may think it's okay or fun to start grabbing and pulling on people's clothing, which is not really fun when you don't want it.

I used to roughhouse and play-fight with my dogs, and it never did any harm, but the dogs knew it was a game and had bite inhibition. I would never have allowed my dog to grab and tug on my clothing.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I honestly don't see a killer in the making. 

I never really roughouse too much because of my various injuries plain and simple (accidents, all unintended during training. Tend to keep the play more structured.

one broken ankle requiring a plate(tracking line accident)
Bone spurs on both shins (Grim, just Grim slamming into me)
Several nosebleeds (Dogs have hard heads)
Torn skin from that 'miss' on the tug (several)
A busted lip (glad it wasn't a nosebleed, I was training)
Permenantly tender shoulders (tug)


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well with young kids in the house this could very well wind up badly, even if she doesn't harm them.
I'm being brought back a little dog for jumping and nipping at kids to try to get them to play - adopter was aware of this and didn't work on it with her despite my advice to work on it.
Now, 2-3 mos. later parents have seen her jump and nip - this is a 6lb. dog - and think she's aggressive. She's not - she wants to play with them!
But that's enough for this gal to lose her license if it keeps up so (of course) instead of separating and trying to train the dog, it's coming back here.

The world today is much different than the one we grew up in, Jakoda


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

*


jocoyn said:



I honestly don't see a killer in the making.

Click to expand...

*


jocoyn said:


> I never really roughouse too much because of my various injuries plain and simple (accidents, all unintended during training. Tend to keep the play more structured.
> 
> one broken ankle requiring a plate(tracking line accident)
> Bone spurs on both shins (Grim, just Grim slamming into me)
> ...


Ditto. 

As for roughhousing, there is not a day going by where I don't roughhouse with Indra, Nala or even Yukon.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well I have to say I think Anthony is a pretty darn good dog owner, I get from his postings that he has done more with Kira than most people I know , and she is no dummy that is for sure.

I also think Anthony is quite on top of what Kira is and isn't capable of, and sure it's a chance that she would take this type of "Play" to a stranger, but I'm willing to bet that Anthony would be on top of that as well.

None of us live with Kira, we only go by what Anthony posts, and yes, she has her quirks like quite a few dogs do, but again, he's done pretty good by her, and I think he pretty much knows not to encourage behaviors like this outside the home/what sets her off, what doesnt.

Last thing, this, like the thing with his wife, is just no big deal to me. Now if he said Kira bit everyone in the face/wanted to eat them all for roughing him up that would be different, but obviously she was happy/licking enjoying the game..big deal? not in my book

As a disclaimer** Masi is not Jake I don't let her rough house with kids because she is a bull in a china shop and can give as good as she gets,,so doing calm things with kids, tossing balls, hiking, is her protocal


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> well I have to say I think Anthony is a pretty darn good dog owner, I get from his postings that he has done more with Kira than most people I know , and she is no dummy that is for sure.
> 
> I also think Anthony is quite on top of what Kira is and isn't capable of, and sure it's a chance that she would take this type of "Play" to a stranger, but I'm willing to bet that Anthony would be on top of that as well.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! :thumbup:
Couldn't have said it any better.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

For 25+ years my kids and husband, myself and dogs have rough housed and played. Dogs from breeders, from rescue and out of the newspaper (the way we all used to get our dogs back in the day). I find it sad that people today are afraid to get down on the floor and play with the dogs.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony you are a big old man and can make your own decisions - and live with the consequences.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I just want to say that I like this thread  Thank you Anthony for posting that story. Although I don't have an angle towards Kira's actions, she really made me laugh. Maybe that's because I haven't read all your posts and don't know Kira as well as some others on here, but I agree with Diane that Anthony seems like a responsible owner. <3

I like how everyone has different views and is civil about them.

I also like the stories people can share about roughhousing with doggies.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

carmspack said:


> Anthony you are a big old man and can make your own decisions - and live with the consequences.


LOL. Really? He seems to me like a young man  Maybe it's only at heart?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony is a good owner . No question. The dog has had issues from the start - if you check in to the last one "Find It" you will see the dog in another predicament . The dog never looks to Anthony to help it out when stressed. She heads for the exit, she heads under the picnic table, she runs in a panic in the dog park enclosure , and in this last one "Find It" she dives under a vehicle and reinjures herself .
So how to you create that , how do you mend that .
I think there is a different read from the dog when the dog is not self confident, self sure.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

well even my son is a big-old-man , responsible for decisions and consequences -- he was guided into this when he was in his young teens -- be thoughtful look forward .


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Wolfie waits by the door every night starting at 11:30 pm, just waiting for his Daddy to get home and have their nightly game of roughhouse. There's lots of racing around, and commotion, and when the game is over, he settles right down. Then it all starts again when his Brother comes home at 2 am. It's his favorite game.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks for sharing a fun story. Very well written. No criticisms here. These are things your 8 and 13 year old will remember when they are adults and will laugh about at your 76th birthday party. 

If I were 25 years younger, I'd say Molly would be a good, natural birth control. For a while she would do a little bark when my husband went to hug me and then she'd try to push her nose between us. She also tries to break up my two cats (who are brothers) when they play fight. I think Kira is a clever GSD.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Anthony is a good owner . No question. The dog has had issues from the start - if you check in to the last one "Find It" you will see the dog in another predicament . The dog never looks to Anthony to help it out when stressed. She heads for the exit, she heads under the picnic table, she runs in a panic in the dog park enclosure , and in this last one "Find It" she dives under a vehicle and reinjures herself .
> So how to you create that , how do you mend that .
> I think there is a different read from the dog when the dog is not self confident, self sure.


Carmen, before I address the other replies... What the heck are you referring to? (Find it)
Find it", was a fun game played in my backyard. I would either throw a ball into the shrubs, or hide it under a rock or something, and ask to find it.
She did NOT injure herself playing find it.
The incident under the car, was when she retreated from a pack of dogs looking to maul her. We all know that she's had issues with OTHER aggressive dogs, and tends to be vulnerable.

NOW, in HER defense, I'd like to write some POSITIVE things about her, and I now expect you to remember what I write, as much as you've remembered the bad incidents.

First, allow me to say that I enjoy "putting myself out there" on GS.com. I enjoy the comments, and from some of the (what may be perceived as negative) comments, lies some truth.
I agree, to some dogs, my actions with Kira could result in a negative way, but I also feel that I can translate Kira's temperament only so much in an internet forum. So the truth lies in what results I get from Kira, and nothing else.

Carmen, I refuse to discredit you. Even though, sometimes I wish I could give you a kick in your pants. You do speak from knowledge, and I respect that. But you also have a way of demeaning others that may not agree with you. I do listen to you, and respect your knowledge, but not all dogs are K9 trained police dogs, and many around here have adapted their dogs as a family member, and get treated as such.

I'd like to create a reference for you, regarding Kira.

1) There was a time when Kira would become agitated if a teen friend walked into my home.
Remedy: I've since taught Kira to allow ALL guests to simply walk into my home, without incident. And not only that, but she will automatically retreat to her mat, until I tell her it's OK to greet. I've done this exercise a 100 times with her, and she has yet to slip.
Just last night, my 8 year old walked in with a friend, and without saying a word, she went to her mat, and did nothing.

2) Kira is no longer reactive in ANY way. I've corrected her a few times for wanting the cat, dog, or anything. I can walk past a pack of wolves, or a litter of kittens, and she'll just keep walking.

3) I've decided that the ONE area that is NOT fixable, is her attraction of aggressive dogs. She's timid, and insecure around older dogs. They get a read on this, and converge. I credit you with recognizing this LONG before I did, and i thank you for it. I honestly didn't understand this behavior.

4) Kira has the most amazing personality. Her temperament is based on her ability to be a loving pet. I've made all the necessary adjustments to keep her safe, and away from harm. Her behavior in my home, is the reason we get dogs. TO ENJOY THEM!! I enjoy every moment with her. If I want her to run next to my bike, she does it. If I want to play frisbee, she does it, etc...

5) I taught her amazing bite inhibition. She will NEVER bite down with any force on any of us. I've witnessed her WANTING to bite hard during ruff housing, but I've taught her to automatically replace that urge, by getting a toy of her own. She will, mouth, then get a toy and squeeze the heck out it.
I can't ask for more than that.

6) Kira stays loose in my home at all times, and will not destroy the furniture.
7) Kira rides in my truck, and allows a restraint without putting up a fight.
8) Yesterday, I had Kira in an open field. About 100 yards away, she sees a flock of geese grazing on the grass. She took off after them. She had gotten to maybe 100 yards away, and a gave a loud whistle. She stopped dead on, turned, and ran back. Can't ask for more than that.

Why am I saying all this?...

Because ALL of those results, have a lot to do with threads like this. I've learned a tremendous amount of information from here, but I think NOW is the time for many of you to LET GO of Kira's shortcomings, and show a little respect for what I've accomplished with her. She's an amazing girl, and has the hearts of anyone that meets her. There isn't a day that goes by, where people ask how she's become such a wonderful little girl.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Anthony8858 said:


> There isn't a day that goes by, where people ask how she's become such a wonderful little girl.


So inspirational  
And I know the answer to that!
It's because of YOU!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> Because ALL of those results, have a lot to do with threads like this. I've learned a tremendous amount of information from here, but I think NOW is the time for many of you to LET GO of Kira's shortcomings, and show a little respect for what I've accomplished with her.


So, should we hold our tongues when we see something happening that may have negative consequences in the future? Irrespective of how far she has come, and how much good you have done with her, there are still moments where I shake my head... but if you are tired of hearing people tell you not to do this or that, I know that I can certainly save myself some time by not replying.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Freestep said:


> So, should we hold our tongues when we see something happening that may have negative consequences in the future? Irrespective of how far she has come, and how much good you have done with her, there are still moments where I shake my head... but if you are tired of hearing people tell you not to do this or that, I know that I can certainly save myself some time by not replying.


He is an adult. And I agree, let it go.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the FIND IT was mentioned so that a new poster who had zero knowledge of Kira could come up to speed and understand why some recommendations were suggested.
Of course she didn't get injured finding something , but the thread took a detour to describe yet another bad day for Kira -- those dogs were not aggressive - they were playing quite nicely with their owners , one on one , the two labs , the "super friendly" Thor GSD lay under a tree . No big action there , no conflict. Along comes Kira and the dynamics change by her fearful reaction triggering an instinctive chase from the two labs. Does she run to you - no - she runs under the car . The dog does not trust herself to you to help her out. Another reason why you should be consistent and predictable .
As others have said on this thread as well - she is not a secure dog. 
The majority of my dogs do go into pet homes , and if you look to the Nickolas thread you will see that there are many times when schedules for certification courses, or time-lines are met and the dogs hand picked and raised for service GO IN TO FAMILY HOMES . 
All these other things about her not being reactive are a revelation never mentioned before.
That is good management . You have done the work and that is to be commended however this doesn't change the essence of the dog . She will be what she is. And you will have to remember that there may be a threshold where she enters a zone out of fear and you won't reach her . That is what makes fearful dogs unpredictable.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I just want to address rough housing in general.

Over many years I've played "roughly" with most of my dogs with no problems.

I also learned that group rough housing is different.

It's confusing to dogs when people they love are involved in these activities.
Like it's testing their loyalties. Who is the favorite? I would never let my kids do it for that reason.

When my son was young he had a lot of friends over and my GSD at that time was crazy about his friends, until they started rough housing. When his friends messed around with him there was no doubt who my dog's loyalty was with. She never bit anyone but scared the crap out of his buddies. I had to tell them not to mess with her like that.

My two cents worth.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Freestep said:


> So, should we hold our tongues when we see something happening that may have negative consequences in the future? Irrespective of how far she has come, and how much good you have done with her, there are still moments where I shake my head... but if you are tired of hearing people tell you not to do this or that, I know that I can certainly save myself some time by not replying.


Not saying you should hold your tongue, but sometimes I feel as if you harp a bit much on what COULD happen, irrespective of her temperament. Not all dogs are alike. 
I feel like people just wait for that negative to harp on. 

But I do understand your concerns. 
In this case, I would you to take a step back and appreciate how nice it is to have a terrific family dog, capable of ruff housing without endangering a family member. Those types of dogs do exist, and Kira is one of them. 

Freestep, I respect your knowledge, and have privately messaged you on more than one occasion for advice. 

This was supposed to be a happy thread. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> It's confusing to dogs when people they love are involved in these activities.
> Like it's testing their loyalties. Who is the favorite? I would never let my kids do it for that reason.


OMG two times this past week or so I've agreed with you. Something weird is going on...

This is why dogs whine and become so anxious when that type play goes on.
We roughhouse with whatever dog likes it, too, but we don't "test their loyalties" in such a manner.

Kira loves your kids and wife - but was attempting to protect you above all, by dragging them off. She's confused as to why her beloved family is now "enemy".

It's a bit sad, because you can read the stress and confusion in your 1st post.

But do as you will, it's a free country, she's your dog and you have to live with her.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> Anthony, by now you should understand the motion towards your dog in the forum.
> 
> No matter what she does, to the forum she is a fear aggressive dog and you did well to portray her like that.
> 
> So this is the outcome. *You will not be able to post anything about your dog without the audience picking it apart*.


Amen. Couldn't have said it better. 

Anthony: your candor and inquisitive nature when posting about Kira has been a double-edged sword. You can honestly never say ANYTHING positive about your dog without certain members immediately picking it apart in a negative light. It was a cute story, but in your case, it's never going to be that simple. If I were you, I'd post with caution in the future


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

and yet I would never say I could kick you in the pants for not listening - same issue , variations of


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> and yet I would never say I could kick you in the pants for not listening - same issue , variations of


Wrong... You've had every right to kick me in the pants on more than one occasion.
You've given advice a few times. Not saying I clearly understood, but you did give it.

I'd like to bet that more than a few people here, have the same issues that I've come across with Kira. 
It takes a certain dog, and a well inform owner to produce the type of dog you expect and describe.
In my neck of the woods, you'd be hard pressed to find that.

Regardless of Kira's shortcomings, I know I'm doing better than most.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Anthony you are a big old man and can make your own decisions - and live with the consequences.


Not that big, and not that old.
54 years old, and can still bring it!

Here's a quick webcam grab for ya


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

You are a nice man, Anthony.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> If I were you, I'd post with caution in the future


Really?! Wow...I guess I have no clue how to use these forums. I though they were to learn things and help each other out...

Anthony, I didn't mean to pee on your cornflakes, I was simply sharing my experience of good ideas gone wrong, as far as indoor games with the family dog are concerned. Just like I'm sure you didn't mean to ruin my day when you warned me about what could happen in the dog park. 

And I'm curious: when did the game in question change from 'pretend attack' to regular horseplay? I have a bite sleeve in my toybox - I never said anything about roughhousing, I was talking about a dog defending someone, and how fun can lead to something else over time.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't see anything wrong with the rough housing. I think Anthony knows his dog well enough to be able to do this. I don't rough house with my dogs, but my son does and they are fine. Never had an issue. I enjoy reading posts about Kira


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony -- you would hurt your foot !

So let's look at it -- READ -- no where was Anthony ruffhousing with Kira . 

quoting "I was wrestling with my kids on the floor. I was pinned down, and my 8, and 13 year old daughter were "ganging up on me" "When my wife jumped in, I started to act as if I was in distress" 

then "At that point, Kira comes running from the other side of the house, and starts grabbing each family member one by one, by either their shirt or pant leg, and starts pulling them away from me"

------ the dog was not being played with , she wasn't even in the same room - she responded to Anthony's victim game. In distress she pulled the others off Anthony . That sets up a different dynamic within the house . 

"As she's doing this, she's moaning, and groaning (not growling)" --------- probably whistling and whining -- dog is stressed . 

Anthony "Needless to say, she didn't approve of the horse play"

so where was the ruff housing WITH the dog and where was the dog enjoying it ??


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Anthony -- you would hurt your foot !
> 
> So let's look at it -- READ -- no where was Anthony ruffhousing with Kira .
> 
> ...


Carmen, just let it go... I know it's not easy. Had to do the same with the Cop topic. Just let.it.go. 
He did not ask for advise in this one.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Mrs K you are right --


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Wow...

Anthony... enjoy your dog, and have fun! I enjoy a good rough game with my dogs... always have.. never had a single aggression issue because of it. And not everyone is solid nerves of steel here... trust me, we have our own share of issues. 

You've done a good job with her. Probably better then most would have! That's something to be proud of! AND that's in with also being a husband, father, employed, and home owner! That takes a lot. Seeing all the horrible dog owners in my area on a daily basis.... I would LOVE to have someone like you and your dog in my neighborhood, no matter what quirks Kira has!

(Btw, my female is just a few months older then your Kira and she would NOT recall from a flock of birds.... At least not for a while. That's impressive for a young dog... especially for a breed high in prey drive. Nice job!)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

WOW! Many folks seem to take things here way too serious.

Dogs will interact when family members roughouse with each other - it is not a tough thing to convince the dog that this is fun and we are just playing!

It is very similar to when we do roughouse with our dog - not a difficult thing to teach the dog he can't bite hard - it is called "bite inhibition"; and most dogs learn it and are very very good at it!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Almost sort of like a lot of folks (esp. in my OB club) thinking it will turn a household pet into CUJO by playing tug of war with him. Maybe they should learn the command "OUT" and how it might help control their out of control wild animal. Heh! Heh!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i rough house with my dog, my dog. my GF an i don't rough
house when the dog is around. you have to "think ahead
to stay ahead". i wouldn't put my dog in a situation
where it has to react to rough housing. does Kira have weak 
nerves? is Kira reactive? where does all of this trust in Kira
come from? i think there's some situations you shouldn't
put Kira in.



carmspack said:


> Anthony the scenario is not that different from the "fun" when you sicked the dog on your wife





Anthony8858 said:


> Come on Carmen, the dog was licking everyone's face.
> You mean to tell me that you never rough housed with your dog ?
> 
> 
> ...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

there's a big difference between rough housing with
the dog and rough housing with family in front of the dog.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I was only speaking from the POV of the child that's caught in the middle. I guess you'd have to be there...when your hand is swollen and bruised and you can't hold a pen because your pet bit you while "playing", it makes you question alot of things.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I agree with DD. I have to say it doesn't matter the breed, they all get emotionally torn when there's "wrestling" between family members going on.

These GSDs are the dogs you want to be able to depend on to attack someone if that someone is raping or stabbing you to death, correct? Which is why the dogs feel so conflicted. "Is it REAL? Is mama/daddy being hurt??" Dogs don't have the brain capacity to reason out "Oh, it's just PLAYING", or they wouldn't whine and carry on so ("moaning" as A said). 

But I'm honestly starting to think that this is some minor "trolling" in a way. Throwing some controversial stuff out there to get folks going. The OP knows it's going to be frowned upon by half the folks here, and the other half will go Oh, why are you frowning, A's cool/good dog owner/blahblahblah.
It works every time, too. His threads are billions of pages long...!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

If Kira had mouthed Anthony and not the others would this be interpreted differently?


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> Not that big, and not that old.
> 54 years old, and can still bring it!
> 
> Here's a quick webcam grab for ya


54!? Sorry, I'm gonna need a shot of your I.D. I'm not buying that.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

After almost 1900 posts, I think I'm long past the troll label.
I have taken you into my home, with videos and pictures. I've posted many "controversial" threads, with the intention of using the experience to better understand what it takes to raise a GSD above and beyond "eat, poop, and sleep".

If you noticed, I posted in the "stories" section. I interpreted her actions as "hey, knock it off, .....then kisses of happiness". I thought it was cute, and showed the level of intelligence of the GSD breed, and warranted a story for the day.
The kids were laughing as Kira licked their faces. They were enjoying her for the very reasons we have her. Kira poses no threat to my family at all.


MSVette... If I was THAT informed to know that this topic would cause so much controversy, I wouldn't need much help.

I think a big problem here, is that we're all not equally informed. Many of us don't understand "pack behavior". You can't blast a dog owner for not understanding that a moan could mean stressed.
When Kira moaned, my wife's response was "awww, let's stop. Kira doesn't like to see us play rough with each other". IMO, my wife's reaction was an act of affection. She knew Kira was stressed, but maybe NOT in the way you would take it. You can't blast me for not understanding canine behavior. I'm a dog owner, not a canine behaviorist.
I've seen the same moan when I have her tug, and I'm making her heel to my side. She would get so excited, she might moan in anticipation of getting the tug from me.

The other night, my 13 year old daughter had a friend over. They took it upon themselves to go in the backyard, and play fetch. Kira decided that she wanted to be chased instead. The girls were laughing and chasing her all over the yard. Kira was in a play bow with the strange girl.
Should I have worried that Kira would bite the child? I had no concerns whatsoever. Kira knows her boundaries very well.

So, the end result is.... Having my kids pile up on me, should be handled with care. Having Kira jump in, could have been a problem for some dogs.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

And YES, that's me in that picture.
Born 8/8/58. That makes me 54  A younger wife, three daughters, and two dogs, keep me active and full of life. I don't have time to get old.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Does anyone out there really believe that a dog with a normal GSD temperament actually believe that a "play fight" is a real fight that they have to be serious in?

C'mon folks, have a little more faith in your dog!

These are dogs that we depend on to distinguish between a "fake threat" stranger and a "real threat" person - is anyone really suggesting that the same dog will not be able to discern the same in a "fight" between family members?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Does anyone out there really believe that a dog with a normal GSD temperament actually believe that a "play fight" is a real fight that they have to be serious in?
> 
> C'mon folks, have a little more faith in your dog!
> 
> These are dogs that we depend on to distinguish between a "fake threat" stranger and a "real threat" person - is anyone really suggesting that the same dog will not be able to discern the same in a "fight" between family members?


:thumbup: It is why we have German Shepherds. Because they are so smart!


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> :thumbup: It is why we have German Shepherds. Because they are so smart!


And THAT was the moral of my story. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Anthony I admire and fear your guts in bringing up subjects. I have to say that as Ive read your posts I remember things we went through w/ the dogs we have had. Note none of mine are from stellar lines and yes they are BYB dogs however I wrestled with Daisy and did things like puppy play. I went to training and got my butt chewed by every trainer I met. I chose to limit Daisy's enviroment and work on things like being calm at the vets(sucess) and being calm in car when strangers were near(fail). I will when I get a new pup/dog reread your posts b/c I learn alot. We never wrestled w/ Daisy after she was 2 and i have many regrets that we chose avoidance but it was safe . I had a trainer who told me Daisy would turn on me. That was bull.She and Daisy disliked each other in a profound sort of way. Daisy bonded to me and my husband as well as her Uncle John but no one else.Who she loved she guarded and tolerated anything you dished out. I fell on her she stayed while I got myself up.I never had any fear re family but others outside always. My long story has two points I sincerely believe you dont think of the reaction to the post and two you really try to put into practice and try what is advised.. I always think about the reaction I might get. I will admit when I read your post I was like OH NO Anthony this is going to at least heated. In closing I think that Kira knows the difference between her family and others. I went by the dont rule w/ Daisy and Lucky who has some fear issues. Dont know what the right answers are just that I think you know Kira and your gut knows when things are OK or Not.Sometimes it's just figuring out what your gut feeling translates into as the action to take.This is what you bring w/ each thread. 
Maggi


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

I dont see why you would purposely upset your dog, or worse, make her feel like she has to jump in and nip someone to get the fighting to stop.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Exactly - dogs with a reasonable temperament can easily distinguish their family and act accordingly! Anyone with an actual fear that their dog will seriouslty bite a family member has my profound sympathy - I cannot imagine living in fear of my own family pet.

Short of actual real pain infliction, I and other family members can do anything to our dog without fear of him being seriously reactive to me or family members. Including rough as heck play with and around him!

(BTW, strangers he might percieve as a threat are an entirely different story. Would and has acted very differently toward)


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I can't believe another one of your threads turned into this. I completely agree with Mrs. K... word for word. It's a real shame.



Mrs.K said:


> Anthony, by now you should understand the motion towards your dog in the forum.
> 
> No matter what she does, to the forum she is a fear aggressive dog and you did well to portray her like that.
> 
> So this is the outcome. You will not be able to post anything about your dog without the audience picking it apart.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

ponyfarm said:


> I dont see why you would purposely upset your dog, or worse, make her feel like she has to jump in and nip someone to get the fighting to stop.


How is group play on the floor and including the dog purposely upsetting her? I think it would be far more upsetting for her to have to watch from a crate and not join in the fun.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> They were playfully slapping me...I started to act as if I was in distress... Kira comes running from the other side of the house...


Without going off topic by discussing how smart the breed it, or by generalizing rough and tumble play, or in any other way changing the subject, I'm curious to see how many people play with their dogs in this particular manner?

1) Have the dog in another room, unaware of the situation
2) Have family members come up and start slapping you
3) You act like your in distress
4) Your dog charges in to view this situation
5) Your dog pulls everyone off you by the teeth

Nothing against you Anthony, but if people are going to support this kind of "play", I'd like to see how many of them actually practice it. And I'm not bashing anyone who does. I'm certain there are things I do with my dogs that people don't agree with. I just can't believe that this is a common manner of "play" and combined with my childhood experiences, I think I should be set straight, if this is the case.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Blanketback said:


> Without going off topic by discussing how smart the breed it, or by generalizing rough and tumble play, or in any other way changing the subject, I'm curious to see how many people play with their dogs in this particular manner?
> 
> 1) Have the dog in another room, unaware of the situation
> 2) Have family members come up and start slapping you
> ...


You don't even want to know what we've done with the dogs throughout all those years. What Anthony described is harmless, at best.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

I can't believe I'm seeing complaining on a shepherd forum about "whining and moaning"... Stressed? Unfair? Mean?

Come on! We own one of the most vocal breeds. If that's what it is... I have some MISERABLE dogs, cause I hear them all the freaking time! Dinner time, play time, training, going on walks, when they see something they want (cat, bird, ball, etc.), and sometimes... They just want to talk back! It's excitement mixed with a very vocal dog.

I seriously can't believe another thread of his has been turned into this!

I rough housed with all my dogs.. past and present... they all whined and made noises... and they were everything from extremely well bred sporting golden retrievers, GSDs (good and bad lines), to rescue pit bulls! Growing up in a family of 4 kids, we all rough housed often... back then, we didn't crate our dogs. They were always in the middle of the action. Once we said enough... everyone went back to daily life.. no one was mad or upset or stressed.. human and dogs alike. And to believe... NONE of my past/current dogs have EVER bitten anyone. I see no problem with this, and people I think read WAY to far into situations they were not even there for.

It's not worth it to evaluate every single detail 100% of the time... especially when you don't even have all the details. Enjoy life... go play with a dog.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Anthony I admire and fear your guts in bringing up subjects. I have to say that as Ive read your posts I remember things we went through w/ the dogs we have had. Note none of mine are from stellar lines and yes they are BYB dogs however I wrestled with Daisy and did things like puppy play. I went to training and got my butt chewed by every trainer I met. I chose to limit Daisy's enviroment and work on things like being calm at the vets(sucess) and being calm in car when strangers were near(fail). I will when I get a new pup/dog reread your posts b/c I learn alot. We never wrestled w/ Daisy after she was 2 and i have many regrets that we chose avoidance but it was safe . I had a trainer who told me Daisy would turn on me. That was bull.She and Daisy disliked each other in a profound sort of way. Daisy bonded to me and my husband as well as her Uncle John but no one else.Who she loved she guarded and tolerated anything you dished out. I fell on her she stayed while I got myself up.I never had any fear re family but others outside always. My long story has two points I sincerely believe you dont think of the reaction to the post and two you really try to put into practice and try what is advised.. I always think about the reaction I might get. I will admit when I read your post I was like OH NO Anthony this is going to at least heated. In closing I think that Kira knows the difference between her family and others. I went by the dont rule w/ Daisy and Lucky who has some fear issues. Dont know what the right answers are just that I think you know Kira and your gut knows when things are OK or Not.Sometimes it's just figuring out what your gut feeling translates into as the action to take.This is what you bring w/ each thread.
> Maggi


There's no need to have guts around here. The people that do respond, mean well, and I know this. I don't get upset, because deep down inside, there's a wealth of truth to what they're saying.
They could easily pass on the thread, but would much rather say how they feel. I've had the very same people that blast my actions, compliment me about other things I do. So it goes with the territory.

I understand why they feel I should not have gone along with Kira's actions. I didnt' bait Kira. She was 4 rooms away, sitting in front of the Bay window, when we were playing. When she came in, no one really gave much thought to what just too place. Kira was licking us to death.

I posted the thread, because I was pretty amazed by her actions. Little did I know, that her actions would not be taken lightly by others. 
(as others have said, the dogs' temperament plays a role here).



ponyfarm said:


> I dont see why you would purposely upset your dog, or worse, make her feel like she has to jump in and nip someone to get the fighting to stop.


She wasn't invited. It wasn't intentional. It just played out on it's own.



codmaster said:


> Exactly - dogs with a reasonable temperament can easily distinguish their family and act accordingly! Anyone with an actual fear that their dog will seriouslty bite a family member has my profound sympathy - I cannot imagine living in fear of my own family pet.
> 
> Short of actual real pain infliction, I and other family members can do anything to our dog without fear of him being seriously reactive to me or family members. Including rough as heck play with and around him!
> 
> (BTW, strangers he might percieve as a threat are an entirely different story. Would and has acted very differently toward)


We always rough it up with her. When we do play rough, she ALWAYS gets a toy, and chomps IT, instead of a limb. She knows that humans are off limits. 

I learned many years ago, that it's much easier to lay the cards on the table, and play your hand. I may raise a few hackles with my replies, but in the end, there are always more than one side to every story.

I will say this much.... I may know my dog, but I don't know dogs.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> Without going off topic by discussing how smart the breed it, or by generalizing rough and tumble play, or in any other way changing the subject, I'm curious to see how many people play with their dogs in this particular manner?
> 
> 1) Have the dog in another room, unaware of the situation
> 2) Have family members come up and start slapping you
> ...


I hopefully will not violate any rules here but wrestling/play fighting w/ my husband usually resulted in Daisy joining in. Dancing meant she thought three was the perfect number. In play fighting Daisy switched sides and at times played tag your it w/ both of us. She liked to play like that and she if you danced kind of do her version of slam dancing where she would jump,twirl and expect you to catch her paws. We stopped cause we were advised that we were reinforcing negative behavior. Does Lucky do this No in fact if he would play like that I would look to see who that dog was.Thats not his style or now his age. As a young dog tug was all out and he played ruff and so did we. I did not let anyone else play like that w/ him and he didnt want to play like that w/ anyone else. My husband's buddy a K-9 officer at a prison would play w/ Daisy chase ,tag and some general horseplay . She had a blast. That was what she loved w/ people who had no fear and who could be top dog to her challenge. Very few could do that. We stopped it at the advice of several trainers. Were they wrong? I dont think so but I was 100% sure of Daisy w/ me ,my husband ,her Uncle Jon and even my dog clueless father.So yes Ive done the rough house stuff and what Anthony described isn't really outside the norm for many family dogs.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Sorry if I'm upsetting you by pressing the point, but I still have the scars from this "game" and I just can't take it lightly, try as I might. When I was injured, I was dismissed. As in, I was told that the dog didn't hurt me, because there was no blood. And then I would be sent to my room because I was "acting up"...so yes, it's definitely a raw nerve with me, even decades later. I'm not criticizing this particular post of Anthony's, but you don't know how many other people will be reading this thread, and maybe there will be someone in my shoes - who actually got hurt. I don't think I'm out of line to question this - in fact, I think it would be irresponsible of me to keep my mouth shut, knowing what I know.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Blanketback said:


> I'm curious to see how many people play with their dogs in this particular manner?


We always try it at least once with every dog we've owned. (acting like one of us is in distress) I don't know why...human nature, curiosity, nothing good on television.  It always seems to end the same way with a dog jumping, whining, getting in between the two people etc. We don't make a habit of it, I hate it when the dogs jump on me.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> Without going off topic by discussing how smart the breed it, or by generalizing rough and tumble play, or in any other way changing the subject, I'm curious to see how many people play with their dogs in this particular manner?
> 
> 1) Have the dog in another room, unaware of the situation
> 2) Have family members come up and start slapping you
> ...


My kids always wrestle on the floor. They're 3 girls from 8 -18, and love to gang up on each other. When I was acting like I was in distress, it wasn't intended for the dog. She was a few rooms away, minding her business.
My girls had me in a headlock, and were practicing their MMA moves on me (mixed martial arts). I was playing along, making believe they were beating me to a pulp 
Kira heard this and came running in.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

We played the game alot, and we always had fun. Or so we thought. It took a few years for the bad behavior to set in, but by then the damage had been done. This dog ended up guarding my mother from me, and it took very little to set him off. He air snapped frequently, bit me several times (a few times I thought he broke a bone) and he broke the skin once too. Or was it twice? I can't remember, but it was a horrible situation to live with - and might have been a factor in me leaving, lol! It's probably very therapeutic to be able to discuss this, because I have alot of negative feelings still unresolved over this. Isn't that awful?!

ETA: Don't forget, I'm the one who's admitted to having a bite sleeve in my toybox, lol! I'm not getting all riled up over roughousing, since I enjoy it too - and so do my dogs. It's strictly a matter of considering what the dogs is learning from the situation.
Thank you Anthony for not taking this as a person assault.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> We played the game alot, and we always had fun. Or so we thought. It took a few years for the bad behavior to set in, but by then the damage had been done. This dog ended up guarding my mother from me, and it took very little to set him off. He air snapped frequently, bit me several times (a few times I thought he broke a bone) and he broke the skin once too. Or was it twice? I can't remember, but it was a horrible situation to live with - and might have been a factor in me leaving, lol! It's probably very therapeutic to be able to discuss this, because I have alot of negative feelings still unresolved over this. Isn't that awful?!


 
This is a horrible situation for you, and I can understand your reservations about that behavior. I don't blame you.
However, IMO, much of that behavior, has to do with the amount of control your parents had over your dog. I would never allow my dog to even look at my children the wrong way. It that temperament? Could be. maybe that's why people are freaking over this thread. maybe Kira is THAT much different than other dogs. She's a marshmallow.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm not saying you're wrong. But with our dog, he was super as a puppy. It was after he matured things went downhill. Funny that you mentioned looking at your children the wrong way, because that's what our first clue was. Had we been more aware (heck, aware *at all*) we might have been able to prevent it. Or maybe not, maybe this was conditioned into him by that point?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong. But with our dog, he was super as a puppy. It was after he matured things went downhill. Funny that you mentioned looking at your children the wrong way, because that's what our first clue was. Had we been more aware (heck, aware *at all*) we might have been able to prevent it. Or maybe not, maybe this was conditioned into him by that point?


This is very interesting, and could very well validate what others are thinking.
Maybe Kira didn't reach that point yet?
Maybe some are concerned that this behavior could only result, by what happened in my house. This could go either way.
I think a lot has to do with the dog. 

Do you feel that your mom made the situation worse?
Knowing what you know now, would you have done things differently, to strengthen the relationship between you and your dog?

There was a time where my kids wanted nothing to do with Kira. My concerns were exactly what you went through.
I've since made it my business to get them involved with Kira in every way.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I was always very close to the dog, that's what bothered me from the outset. I don't know why it went so wrong - it could even be that I have a stronger personality than my mom and the dog, sensing this weakness on her part, felt a need to protect her. 
There isn't an easy answer, without knowing the cause.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

just my 2 cents - we do this sort of thing all the time with my dog. He hasn't eaten the "aggressor" yet. Sorry, but maybe we don't give our dogs enough credit. I think they can tell when someone is really in distress and when someone is playing.

Funny how we always hear in schutzhund for example that the helper must be very good at portraying himself as the bad guy, and how dogs instinctively feel that the fight is not a real one if the helper doesn't do an excellent job at acting out as the aggressor, but a house full of kids and their parents rolling on the floor giggling and pretending to hurt "dad" will confuse the dog and make her think this is a real fight. Yea right! I think we can and should give our dogs a little more credit than that...


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> Sorry if I'm upsetting you by pressing the point, but I still have the scars from this "game" and I just can't take it lightly, try as I might. When I was injured, I was dismissed. As in, I was told that the dog didn't hurt me, because there was no blood. And then I would be sent to my room because I was "acting up"...so yes, it's definitely a raw nerve with me, even decades later. I'm not criticizing this particular post of Anthony's, but you don't know how many other people will be reading this thread, and maybe there will be someone in my shoes - who actually got hurt. I don't think I'm out of line to question this - in fact, I think it would be irresponsible of me to keep my mouth shut, knowing what I know.


I did not respond to your post to negate your experience. My apologies if it did. Your experience sounds like I think how alot of parents in the past handled situations with animals. I was always told when I complained that our GSD Jumper knocked me down "What did you do first?"My least was favorite "Then he should be put down". I think teaching kids how to give commands to the family dog whether its a GSD ,Lab or minature poodle is important and w/ that the responsibility each member of the family has to the dog. I think my father who once told Daisy to take rib bone out of his mouth had a major deficit in dog sense. This seems odd as he was raised on a farm.I know that alot of what I learned from family members in the 70's and 80 was really not the way to go when raising a dog. Not sure how old you are but our parents solutions to things is what we know and then we develop our own ways to deal with problems and life experiences. You obviously learned how to manage dogs and made them an important part of your life. I also think that rough housing is also a personal choice based on each individual person's experience and perception. It is neither right or wrong in an absolute point but rather what fits you and your life style and of course your dog.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Much Ado About Nothing


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Anthony , here is the thing -- anxious dogs and anxious people respond differently . Just ask the person suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome . It is real. Even asking a simple neutral question or making a comment "hey you didn't finish your dinner" can be taken the wrong way . Your intentions or next words may have been - "I didn't realize I gave you so much," you are walking on egg shells -- and so are they, can't help it - defensive response . You want to do everything to minimize stressors until some balance is back. 

Kira keeps getting thrown in to situations which result in stress , confirming her perception . This is what people have said on just about every thread - stop exposing the dog to those situations.

From previous threads you have said you have had problems with the dog being jumpy and reactive to the point to her confronting a guest , present in the house for some time and known to her , because he decided to move around. Who know's he could have gone down the hall to visit the bathroom . It aroused her . 
In previous threads you have also said that you have been frustrated , using my words locking horns , with the teenager of the house.
So in the scenario in this thread the dog got involved in some fun-family-mash-up , but the dog doesn't differentiate , and she needed to rescue you from your family. The whining , and vocalizations in general are stress releasers . Dogs that whistle and whine on the field tend to have capping issues . 
So here is what to watch for - the next time there is drama or conflict in the house , maybe the teen talking back , being animated , stomping foot , waving arms , because you won't remove a curfew, lend the car, hand out the bucks , just watch that the dog doesn't move in on her - remembering her removing offensive people one by one to save you.
She may be sensitized even when there are voices raised . Watch her and see . Better to know so that you can step in and prevent something you don't want to happen .


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