# Is your working dog also your pet?



## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

This issue came up at training and I just wanted to know if you guys treat your working dog like a pet, too, specifically Schutzhund/PSA dogs? Another part to the question is whether or not your dog/dogs live in the house with you and if so, are they crated when you are not working them or are they allowed to be loose in the house?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

My dog is most definitely my pet. He goes everywhere with me, is a house dog, almost never crated, and sleeps on my bed. He also does AKC obedience and agility. He is going for his SchH 2 this next weekend.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Of course my dogs are my pets. Why even get a dog if they are just going to be glorified sports equipment? Same as Elaine. They live in the house, go everywhere with me, sleep on the bed, and are rarely crated. 

If a dog NEEDS to be crated and otherwise left alone most of the time to create the desire in him to want to work with the handler, well, that is NOT a dog with a working temperament, IMHO.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Along those same lines, why have a dog that only does SchH? What if something happens where you or the dog can no longer do it? Does that mean you get rid of the dog or enjoy him for the wonderful pet his is and maybe find another sport to participate in?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

My dogs are my pets. They do have to be kenneled/crated and rotated because not all of them get along. But one or two dogs are always in the house with us and I try to rotate who gets to sleep with us at night. They are allowed on the bed with us but generally choose to sleep on the floor next to me. I take them out hiking and swimming all the time. 

I was telling someone not too long ago - I have dogs because I love dogs, not because I love schutzhund. I do enjoy Schh too, but love dogs much more, and I don't want them to turn into just a tool to get on the podium. 

Our Schh trainer was old school and always told us - keep the dogs kenneled when they're not working. I politely told him that wasn't for me - it may cost us a couple of points if she's not as disciplined as a dog that's never given any freedom, but it's just not worth it for me to treat a dog like that.
And then a year later he started keeping his 1 female in the house and was saying how much happier she was getting to live in the house - so maybe I rubbed off on him! LOL


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

My dogs are my pets, absolutely. First, I am not a competitive person, so I would not sacrifice my enjoyment of my dogs for a title, I don't even have hopes to win anything. I like Schutzhund for the relationship it builds with my dogs, without that, there is no point in doing SchH in the first place. 

I may foster a pup for my SAR team, that pup will be an outside pup who will sleep in the kennel from day one. I may care and love that pup as much as I love my own dogs, specially if I'm going to raise her for 12-18 months, but the goals for raising her would be different than the reasons I got my personal dogs.

I love this article, it offers different perspectives on the matter.
http://www.vangoghkennels.com/pb-htdocs/Adobe%20Files/house-kennel%20MA09.pdf


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Catu said:


> My dogs are my pets, absolutely. First, I am not a competitive person, so I would not sacrifice my enjoyment of my dogs for a title, I don't even have hopes to win anything. I like Schutzhund for the relationship it builds with my dogs, without that, there is no point in doing SchH in the first place.
> 
> I may foster a pup for my SAR team, that pup will be an outside pup who will sleep in the kennel from day one. I may care and love that pup as much as I love my own dogs, specially if I'm going to raise her for 12-18 months, but the goals for raising her would be different than the reasons I got my personal dogs.
> 
> ...


Good article, gave me a lot of perspective and more insight into what is going to work for me.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes. Sleep on the bed, watch me eat, know that my bathroom must have an escape route, hang with me while I cook, run with me while I farm, and just hang with me on the couch PETS. 

I do rotate because I have a few girls that don't get along. Then I use crates. I also have an dog yard that I sometimes use so the dogs can hang out on nice days even if I have inside work to do.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Pet first, "working" dog second 
For me, personally, I wouldn't see much fun in the sport if I didn't love my dog as a pet/companion.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I haven't titled a dog yet, but I am working toward that. My dogs are companions first, workers second. I don't have aspirations to compete at the higher levels, so it isn't even a question for me to kennel them outside. Besides, I live in the city with fussy neighbors, so a kennel isn't even an option for me. 

I use a crate until the dogs learn house rules (about at year), then they are out 24/7 and either sleep on the bed or on a dog bed next to the bed.


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Just for the record, Wolf is my pet/companion first and the working dog/sport dog second. The trainer just feels that he lacks enthusiasm during the obedience portion of the work and he does believe that if you want to compete and get the best out of your dog that working dogs should live primarily in kennels so that every time they see you, they are very enthusiastic. He has not tried to force me to do that, only given me his opinion which I very much appreciate. I knew all along, that in order for him to coexist in our household, I squashed some of his natural enthusiasm, but it was either that or go crazy! We are just trying to figure out how to get some of that back now. I have taken away his toys so that he only gets to play with me and not on his own(he still has his chew bones); I am not letting DH play with him; I took away his favorite toy and will bring it out next week at training; and I did crate him for a couple of extra hours this afternoon(he is used to being in the kitchen when I am home and not in his crate)....I caved after 2 hours when I said that I was going to go 4. LOL He does get crated in the afternoons a couple of times a week for that amount of time while I am running errands, but just not when I am home.

The other thing he suggested was to go back to hand feeding which I have done.

This dog means so much more to me than a title, but I would love to be able to show the sport world what I see in him and train him to his full potential.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Elaine said:


> Along those same lines, why have a dog that only does SchH? What if something happens where you or the dog can no longer do it?


Totally. My Schutzhund dog is a pet. He sleeps in my bed and usually has free reign of my house. We were going to do SchH 1-3 titles this spring and fall but now a health problem has me considering retiring him from Schutzhund protection work altogether but if that happens he will still track (I hate tracking but he loves it) and probably do some form of formal obedience since all the training is there (including Rally obedience RE level). He also has titles in agility and SDA tracking, obedience, and protection. Next weekend he will go for titles in lure coursing and dock diving. He's started flyball training and has been herding multiple times. He travels all over with me to family functions and is fine around people and kids. He goes to my husband's school (he teaches second grade) to demonstrate his silly dog tricks and get loved on by kids. My puppy is following the same type of program. Oh and I show (conformation) both my GSDs for fun. I also have a 5 year old mutt. All three of these males get along just fine. I do have some crates and gates in the house but that's to keep the younger dogs safe while I'm away or to keep them out of my hair while I'm doing chores. We've never had a fight or squabble.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

clearcreekranch said:


> Just for the record, Wolf is my pet/companion first and the working dog/sport dog second. * The trainer just feels that he lacks enthusiasm during the obedience portion of the work and he does believe that if you want to compete and get the best out of your dog that working dogs should live primarily in kennels so that every time they see you, they are very enthusiastic*. He has not tried to force me to do that, only given me his opinion which I very much appreciate. I knew all along, that in order for him to coexist in our household, I squashed some of his natural enthusiasm, but it was either that or go crazy! We are just trying to figure out how to get some of that back now. * I have taken away his toys so that he only gets to play with me and not on his own(he still has his chew bones); I am not letting DH play with him; I took away his favorite toy and will bring it out next week at training;* and I did crate him for a couple of extra hours this afternoon(he is used to being in the kitchen when I am home and not in his crate)....I caved after 2 hours when I said that I was going to go 4. LOL He does get crated in the afternoons a couple of times a week for that amount of time while I am running errands, but just not when I am home.
> 
> The other thing he suggested was to go back to hand feeding which I have done.
> 
> This dog means so much more to me than a title, but I would love to be able to show the sport world what I see in him and train him to his full potential.


I think you can have a dog with enthusiasm without removing things from his life that he loves. 
It shouldn't have to be this or that to bring out the best of his potential. 

If your dog isn't showing enthusiasm during obedience then you have to make yourself more exciting( I have to do this as my dog isn't flashy during obedience). I do use high value toys for training, and then they lose value because we use them so often. 
I used a cuz toy other day for ob at home, and his obedience was the best I've seen. He was flashy, did his motion exercises snappy and had two other dogs distracting him. 
He has a cuzball at his disposal at all times....but I don't know that I want my dog to be this way for a toy, it should be for me, because on the trial field ME is all he'll have. (Thanks to Chris for that insight!)

Sometimes we just have to mix things up to keep the dog engaged. 

SchH is three phases and I don't withhold a day's meal to track better. I won't feed before tracking, but to starve my dog to make him track better isn't something I do. 

I'd rather have a happy well adjusted dog than one that is spinning in his crate or kennel so he'll perform better on the field. The dog I train is free in the house, yard and has access to the other dogs. 
I don't consider my dog a "working dog"(that is a term I think a dog who actually has a job is for)
but I do train w/ him in SchH. 
He is a pet first, and if he isn't cut out for SchH then we'll find something else to do.


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## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

Unless I'm at work, Cues is rarely 5 feet away from me. She is very high drive, so I don't need to crate her to bring her up. She is out at the barn with me. She pretty much goes everywhere I do. I try to take her out to the beach, and do some hiking. I also try to go to things like flea markets. She can be a bit serious on the field and I want her to remain balanced. I like to do continued socialization with her. I think her being with me all the time just strenghtens our bond and makes the work on the field just that much better. I'm able to keep her occupied enough during the day, so she is happy and calm in the house. 
If she couldn't do Schutzhund, no problem. She is my darling, furry little friend first.


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## kindevog (Dec 4, 2008)

Chaos is my pet..she sleeps with me , Kaiser is my designated driver and accountant he has his his own bed...


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Does everything have to be categorized and broken down? Why can't my dog just be my dog? I like him and he likes me. We enjoy being in each other's company. He works too. I don't have a pet or a working dog; I have a good dog.


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## kindevog (Dec 4, 2008)

I heard that a working dog needs a job to do and Kaiser became a better dog once he mastered long form deductions. Still he always forged in obedience. so I always monitored my bank statements...

Enjoy your dog...


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## Zahnburg (Nov 13, 2009)

Fast said:


> I have a good dog.


 Do you? I don't know as I have never seen him, though maybe I have? I don't know who "Fast" is so I don't know if I have seen his dog?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

lol


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Ok, I am in agreement with everyone. Wolf is my buddy first and we are doing training because it is fun and it is what he was bred to do. I know that I am boring, boring, boring! I am trying to make myself more interesting, even though I know that I will never be as interesting as his jolly ball. He will absolutely kill that thing. We have gone through at least 10 in as many months. As far taking away his toys in the house, he is at a point where he doesn't really play with them unless we are eating and then he wants to drop them in our lap! My theory on the toy thing is that I get to decide when and where we play, not just a free far all.

I'm absolutely positive that I squashed some of his drive, so that we could live in the same house.... my first high drive dog. And in hindsight I recognize that we were also encouraged to do too much structured obedience too early.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

I'd also like to add - my dog is my friend first and a working dog second. Not only is he my first dog but I also didn't know what Schutzhund was until after I got him and was looking for something to get involved in. My goal was to find a way to give him a job - not to find a dog to do the job - and to give us something to work and strive towards together. I haven't titled him yet and I'm sure that if I didn't give him constant attention and affection he would work much harder for attention alone but like I said, it's a "loss" I'll gladly take - having him work with a little less drive and enthusiasm and have a friend rather than a worker in the house. Plus between the ball, tug, and food we had enough to work with to give him good foundation and excitement for doing the work.

With all that said, I'm completely addicted to Schutzhund and will always have at least one Schutzhund dog or prospect, and NONE of them will be working dogs first - they will all be house dogs and companions.


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## JLOCKHART29 (Aug 23, 2009)

Not just my pet but since we don't have kids my "son". That said because of his training and breeding he is treated differently than my Labs were. While he is a big baby with strangers around me I would not leaves him alone with them like a lab or layed back GSD not training in sport. His do's and don't are much mores defined such as never allowed in bed or kitchen. I go threw doors first while you sit, feed out of hand on command ect. Also as you asked he spends a lot more time in the crate than a pet. My house is my house. His crate is his house. Full run of the house blurs the line for him creating problems that can be avoided.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

My dogs are all pets...puppy to Sch3 and all titles in between!! They have all lived in the house (yes, crates when I am at work, and some rotations with certain females) - they have all been very good dogs on the field, and at home...the imported adults really seem to appreciate being house dogs, the ones raised from pups don't know any different.

If your dog is flat in obedience, it has other causes - foundation training, genetics are more likely the culprit. I had one who just never got all ramped up in ob...6 or 7 times Schh3 though - she was a solid 85 point OB dog....and high SG/V in protection....that was her - period....my dog who had awesome focus squeeked by with a 70-80 in ob because he was OBSESSED with the dumbbell and wanted to fight with you for it....for Schh3, we went into the dumbbell exercises with 50 points and ended up with a 71 after a perfect send out and down....they all have their little quirks - get as correct ob as you can - position  for fronts and finishes will ding you alot of points too - make everything as good as you can and don't worry about it....the dog is happier living with you...

Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree, genetics play a huge part in what the dog does on the field! But if I'm not animated enough or interesting enough the dog won't want to interact.


> As far taking away his toys in the house, he is at a point where he doesn't really play with them unless we are eating and then he wants to drop them in our lap! My theory on the toy thing is that I get to decide when and where we play, not just a free far all.


I take this time when the dog is pushing a toy into me as a training opportunity. Whenever he comes to me with a toy, I grab it and we do some focused heeling(kitchen obedience, if inside) and some quick positions. 

Right now my dog is whining at me(probably for dinner more than anything) and I am going to wait him out a bit and then we'll work on the retrieve hold. I just got home from work and need to relax for a minute or two!
I see an opportunity to be had anytime my dog wants to engage with me!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Fast said:


> Does everything have to be categorized and broken down? Why can't my dog just be my dog? I like him and he likes me. We enjoy being in each other's company. He works too. I don't have a pet or a working dog; I have a good dog.


Yes, thank you. My dog is my dog which pretty much sums up all the categories. 

Granted, if something happened to her too and I'd had to wash her out of the training, I'd have to give one of my dogs away to make room for a dog I can work or pretty much wash out of the active K9 Team. 

And that's where they no longer are just pets but they are my dogs.


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