# how long back in a pedigree?



## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

I've been researching my pups pedigree, I am no expert and most of the time i have no idea what I am looking at. But I have been finding several dogs in his pedigree that i like, i try researching them even more. found some pretty nice things about some dogs and some not so nice (ex: great grandfather died young from hemophilia, not a very biddable grandfather but toned down to more biddable progeny with this dam, etc...) 
My question is how long back do you keep going in order to get some idea on what good or bad your pup might have? 
Like for example, my pup has a couple of Kirschental dogs far back in his pedigree, i like their idea (show x work mix for herding purposes) but is it so far back that my dog might not posses their herding quality.
Also some pure DDR lines does that mean he will be slow to mature? 

Thanks in advance.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

nitemares said:


> My question is how long back do you keep going in order to get some idea on what good or bad your pup might have?


Best information will come from the parents. Having said that, I do look at pedigrees 5,6,7generations and more. But at that distance, individual dogs may not be as important as the backmassing, and the type of dogs.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

nitemares said:


> Also some pure DDR lines does that mean he will be slow to mature?
> .


No.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks  my questions are simply examples not necessarily questions i'm asking 

thankfully for both parents i got very good comments and also the grandparents with the exception of one. (dominance issues from Vito vom Waldwinkel??) So far my pup seems to be exactly what i wanted (breeder gives me updates every week, he's 9 weeks now)

My question comes from the fact that i've read and discussed with some breeders that when they look at the dam or sir they're going to breed there dog with, they tend to look so far back in the pedigree. I'm trying to understand why and how important is it to look very far back?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

could you post the pedigree again please.
Carmen


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

gagsd said:


> nitemares said:
> 
> 
> > My question is how long back do you keep going in order to get some idea on what good or bad your pup might have?
> ...


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Backmassing....

http://www.sdk-weber.com/pdf/Genetic_Fidelity.pdf


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

Carmen here it is
Mating test - German Shepherd Dog

I'm very interested in hearing everything about it, the good the bad and the ugly LOL


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

gagsd said:


> Best information will come from the parents. Having said that, I do look at pedigrees 5,6,7generations and more. But at that distance, individual dogs may not be as important as the backmassing, and the type of dogs.


So how many times does a dog have to appear in a pedigree to be considered backmassing and does the distance count?(as in 5,6,7 or more generations back)


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

nitemares said:


> So how many times does a dog have to appear in a pedigree to be considered backmassing and does the distance count?(as in 5,6,7 or more generations back)


Good question. I see the same dog about 20 times in my dog's pedigree, but he is scattered through generations 5 - 10.


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

nitemares said:


> So how many times does a dog have to appear in a pedigree to be considered backmassing and does the distance count?(as in 5,6,7 or more generations back)


Anyone? plz? :blush:


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## GSDGenes (Mar 9, 2006)

*All German Shepherd Dogs pedigrees eventually go back to one foundation dog & certain dogs who were prepotent -- strongly consistent in producing desired characteristics to breeding partners whose own quality or lack thereof--varied widely, appear many times over in all GSD pedigrees. 

It's nearly impossible for example, to find a German conformation showlines pedigree that doesn't go back to Palme WildsteigerLand through one or more of her progeny and their descendants. Virtually every German showlines pedigree goes back to Canto & Quanto vd Wienerau multiple times. These dogs very commonly appear multiple times in German showline pedigrees between the 5th & 10th generations.

Regarding hemophilia A, Canto vd Wienerau was a hemophiliac, evidently a spontaneous mutation since there's no record of hemophilia in the breed prior to Canto. Hemophilia A in GSDS is on the X-chromosome just as in humans. All of Canto's daughters were carriers of hemophilia A. Canto vd Wienerau died at 4 years of age. He already had 100 matings & over 400 female progeny when he died. 
*


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