# Looking for trained GSD $10,000-$15,000



## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

Hello everyone. I am searching for my first GSD. We want a family protection dog that is safe around young kids. I believe we prefer the European bred dogs. Looking to spend less than 20K. I've run across breeders that offer a warranty with their dogs which I like. Gunbil is 5 years! The 2 breeders that I am looking at right now are Gunbil in Colorado and Gatorlandk9 in Florida. Anyone with experience with these guys?


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

Anyone??


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

What is your definition of trained? What are your plans with the dog once you get? HAve you ever handled a high drive animal before? HOw much time can you dedicated per day for training and excersise? Can you continue invest the time and money to upkeep the dog protection training?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I know basically nothing about buying a trained dog.

But I looked at the Gatorlandk9 website

I also don't know what they want for those dogs. I'm not too sure I'd pay much money for a "trained" dog that requires a ball in his face for his heeling video, or one who is still being lured with food (and both kind of sloppy even at that)

Then I clicked on the video for Yawvor and found a dog creeping along waiting for a nasty correction and cowering when the guy reached toward it. I was not impressed with the dog being petted by the woman either. Dog looked tense, drew back, then tried to sniff the ground and avoid the people altogether.

If I were looking to drop 10k on a dog it sure wouldn't be here.

OP, if people who sell adult dogs are anything like people who sell horses, be very very careful who you buy your dog from.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Have you looked at Kraftwerk?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Kraftwerk has always gotten mixed reviews, so I'm not sure what to think. One thing most people agree on is that they are good at marketing and selling dogs for twice the price of what they are worth. 

You should check out Mike Diehl.
Diehl's K9 Training LLC

I've no personal experience with Mike, but he comes highly recommended, and is trustworthy and honest. Contact him and discuss what you are looking for, he'll be able to help, or at least, point you in the right direction.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

girardid said:


> What is your definition of trained? What are your plans with the dog once you get? HAve you ever handled a high drive animal before? HOw much time can you dedicated per day for training and excersise? Can you continue invest the time and money to upkeep the dog protection training?


So we don't want a really high drive working dog. Trained as in listens to voice commands. Good on and off leash. Doesn't bark at everything that moves. We will have time to give our dog good exercise and time/money for additional training. 

I just want to make sure when we get the dog it is the right one for us. That is why we believe an older dog would be the best option. This will be our first GSD so maybe I just underestimate how great the pups can be. Just looking for advice.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I know basically nothing about buying a trained dog.
> 
> But I looked at the Gatorlandk9 website
> 
> ...



Thank you for the observations. Talking with them was kind of a turn off. I really appreciated how helpful and friendly Gunbil was. His dogs are beautiful also in my opinion.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> Kraftwerk has always gotten mixed reviews, so I'm not sure what to think. One thing most people agree on is that they are good at marketing and selling dogs for twice the price of what they are worth.
> 
> You should check out Mike Diehl.
> Diehl's K9 Training LLC
> ...



Kraftwerk did have mixed reviews which deterred me from them. I will look at Mike's site and give him a call. Thanks!


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

I curious, do you want a "trained" protection dog because you've seen some videos? GSD's are pretty good at protection right out of the box, all you have to do is raise them with your family. A lot cheaper too.  And visually, they're a great psychological deterrent.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

squerly said:


> I curious, do you want a "trained" protection dog because you've seen some videos? GSD's are pretty good at protection right out of the box, all you have to do is raise them with your family. A lot cheaper too.  And visually, they're a great psychological deterrent.


I am learning this more and more as I search. My wife really wants a dog that will bark and advance towards an intruder. She wants the dog to look out for her and the kids. We also will take the dog hiking in the rockies where wild animals are a threat. Having a dog with keen senses and the desire to protect their family is why we are looking at the GSD. We don't necessarily want to get a well trained "protection dog".


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

divenvy said:


> I am learning this more and more as I search. My wife really wants a dog that will bark and advance towards an intruder. She wants the dog to look out for her and the kids. We also will take the dog hiking in the rockies where wild animals are a threat. Having a dog with keen senses and the desire to protect their family is why we are looking at the GSD. We don't necessarily want to get a well trained "protection dog".


The breed is naturally a protective dog. I personally would look to getting a puppy you can raise with your children and family. There are some very good breeders producing stable temperament/healthy dogs. And the price would be a fraction of what you want to pay. 

Buying a 'protection trained' dog is sometimes a sham. Be very careful who you deal with. I agree with contacting Mike Diehl, he could steer you to a few breeders if he doesn't have what you are looking for. He has some great breeders training in his club.

Carry a weapon when you are hiking, the dog should not be put in a position to fight off wild animals. That, IMO is not fair to the dog or your expectations of what this 'protection trained' dog should do.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Your price range will bring out all the brokers selling dogs they buy low in Germany as they are basically washouts who will not advance in training but that have a show rating or a slammed on IPO1....as just like the ones you have found on line..putting your price point out publically is a double edged sword too, you may be offered a very poor quality dog for a high price by a silver tongued devil  

I would say, with few exceptions, all the dogs that brokers are selling have been raised in a kennel and are not going to advance in training to be competitive. Be prepared for some adjustments to environment....some times people are selling trained dogs or placing them because they have a new competition dog and one can be found that way. A friend has a female who is retired from breeding who would fit this admirably except she is not trustworthy with other dogs....with the brokers, they rarely have that type of knowledge.

Lee


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

onyx'girl said:


> The breed is naturally a protective dog. I personally would look to getting a puppy you can raise with your children and family. There are some very good breeders producing stable temperament/healthy dogs. And the price would be a fraction of what you want to pay.
> 
> Buying a 'protection trained' dog is sometimes a sham. Be very careful who you deal with. I agree with contacting Mike Diehl, he could steer you to a few breeders if he doesn't have what you are looking for. He has some great breeders training in his club.
> 
> Carry a weapon when you are hiking, the dog should not be put in a position to fight off wild animals. That, IMO is not fair to the dog or your expectations of what this 'protection trained' dog should do.


Thanks for the information. We will have a gun also when hiking. I don't want my dog being mauled by a bear but we want a dog that can be off leash and listens to us/looks out for us.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Rockies, so we are talking grizzly/cougar country? I am not sure I would let any dog offleash up there, no matter how well trained. I don't think I would let my current two offleash in that kind of country and they are very responsive. They are offleash daily with me where we live but there are no apex predators in my area that routinely hunt dogs. We have black bear, moose, and coywolves, all of whom could and I'm sure have killed dogs, but most of those under at least some circumstances will run before they attack, especially with human intervention. I'm guessing moose to be the most dangerous of the bunch, and they are not *that* common here. Though I have heard a lot of stories of the dog running back with a black bear hot on his tail so he runs to his human and brings the bear right in, and it becomes a disaster.

Walking up a trail, come around a corner, dog is in front because that's usually where they are and come face to face with a griz, dog blows up at it because that's probably what a shepherd would do, dog is dead in the blink of an eye and bear is mad and probably charging you now.

I think it's important to have realistic views and expectations about what a good dog is, and what a good dog does. If I were hiking in the rockies I would be concerned with looking out for my dog, not the other way around. 

Also realize that mostly any dog will require a lot of work and training to be hiking in nature areas with total voice control.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Not like dogs are getting mauled left and right in the backcountry. Don't let your anxiety get the best of you.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Rockies, so we are talking grizzly/cougar country? I am not sure I would let any dog offleash up there, no matter how well trained. I don't think I would let my current two offleash in that kind of country and they are very responsive. They are offleash daily with me where we live but there are no apex predators in my area that routinely hunt dogs. We have black bear, moose, and coywolves, all of whom could and I'm sure have killed dogs, but most of those under at least some circumstances will run before they attack, especially with human intervention. I'm guessing moose to be the most dangerous of the bunch, and they are not *that* common here. Though I have heard a lot of stories of the dog running back with a black bear hot on his tail so he runs to his human and brings the bear right in, and it becomes a disaster.
> 
> Walking up a trail, come around a corner, dog is in front because that's usually where they are and come face to face with a griz, dog blows up at it because that's probably what a shepherd would do, dog is dead in the blink of an eye and bear is mad and probably charging you now.
> 
> ...


I've heard a lot of stories of people getting attacked by moose because they see their dogs as a 'wolf' threat. I live in Montana we have mountain lions(wouldn't be super worried about them in large groups), bears and now wolves are starting to spread... I take my dog off leash and may be starting shed hunting with her which would require a little more freedom for her. Basically if your dog has a solid recall you should be fine, but dogs can start more fights with wildlife than anything so don't rely on your dog for protection. Pepper spray can be very useful.

For the buying a trained 'protection dog' you definitely have to be careful in not getting scammed. If possible try to meet the dog you are going to buy before you buy it. If you just want an adult GSD and aren't so worried about it being trained in protection you could try to find a shelter dog that meets your needs. There are well trained dogs in shelters on occasion and GSDs are usually enough of a deterrent on their own, without actually needing to do anything, although training a bark could be helpful.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I would highly recommend simply getting a GSD pup from a good breeder and working with an excellent trainer to develop that pup into what you are looking for in a grown dog. 

The PPD market is mostly a scam, you'd need to really know what you are doing to navigate to a decent dog. And even then, the dog was mostly likely kennel raised and not accustomed to off leash hiking, for example. Which is why developing your own pup the way you want him is the best option.

You can invest the money in training for the pup, rather than a "PPD".


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

In my experience, the most dangerous wildlife is the porcupine, then the moose. But with moose, you can usually use training and management to avoid an encounter (not always) while porcupines are sneaky buggers that can "get" a dog even when he is under good control. 

But by far the most deadly/dangerous critters are the tick and mosquito, so try to be realistic about what you worry about.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

We frequent the "rockies" in north Idaho and while we have come across other wildlife, wolves have become a concern. Most animals will move on quickly with humans approaching, but wolves at times will be more brazen. It may be curiosity or they view dogs as competition I'm not really sure, best to keep pets secure regardless.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

Nigel and Muskeg thanks for the input and you both make great points.


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

CPI - Canine Protection International


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Wowza. $65 K for a dog?!!


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## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

You may also be able to et a "green" dog and look into some PPD training ? Additionally , sometimes breeders have older trained dogs for sale for specific reasons ? Maybe one needed to be spayed for medical reason so can't be bred or some other health issue that doesn't make them suitable for breeding but would provide the protection you are describing.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

melissajancie said:


> CPI - Canine Protection International


That's pretty much what we are looking for! Thanks, I will call them. Do you have any experience with them?


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## melissajancie (Dec 22, 2016)

divenvy said:


> That's pretty much what we are looking for! Thanks, I will call them. Do you have any experience with them?


I will send you a PM


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## Dori (Apr 30, 2017)

melissajancie said:


> CPI - Canine Protection International



It's like "Build-A-Dog" - I know it's all personal preference and what you have time/the need for and I am know you didn't come here necessarily for people's personal opinions, however, I will say there is something special about raising and training the pup yourself. 

Main reason: When he/she becomes a big dog there is a level of trust you both have with each other. Personally, I have never been able to 'connect' fully with a dog I wasn't able to raise as a pup. Raising from a puppy would make the pup feel more like a family member rather than just bodyguard. 

It just seems like your bond will be much much different and probably a little less pure with buying a customized dog that requires little effort on your part. 

Just throwing another consideration out there


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

Might as well just go for the gusto...Bred to Love.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

There is nothing like training your own pup. There is a certain trust as you learn everything about your pup as you raised them. I put a lot of sweat, tears and time into training Max. He is the dog that taught me the most. I have a bond like no other dog, I ever owned. When we go out on family walks everyone wants to walk him. I still have more work to do and always learning much but he is maturing so nice and is the coolest dog I ever owned. 

Luna our pup is a dog that makes us look like we are professional trainers from day one so it's nice that she gifts us with that experience. She is everything we wanted in our second German shepherd. Two of Max's at the same time would be a bit to much.

There is nothing like raising a pup with kids. I don't think there is anything that can compare to that level of trust. 

Pups can though take up a lot of time. So, if there is a shortage of time, energy and money is not an issue getting an trained adult dog is a nice option. Our first Gsd was fully trained and I can see now, was a deal of the century. I have heard good things about grasso shepherds and prices seem reasonable. 

http://www.grassoshepherds.com/dog_for_sale.html


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

BigHemi45 said:


> Might as well just go for the gusto...Bred to Love.





> Our dogs fly on private planes, ride in cars or sit in on boardroom meetings so inconspicuously it's easy to forget the dog is there.


 lol, I think I'd know he was there alright.


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

squerly said:


> lol, I think I'd know he was there alright.



Yea I would be keenly aware of his presence just about anywhere lol.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

BigHemi45 said:


> Might as well just go for the gusto...Bred to Love.



I called them because they were close to our new home. The new suburban I am buying costs less than their dogs. I just can't do that.


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

You really dont need to spend big bucks on a dog that will do what you are asking for, maybe $1500-$5000. As others have said it would be best to get a puppy from a good breeder that has proven dogs in their pedigree; actual Police dogs, IPO/Schutzhund, PSA, French Ring titled dogs. It's perfectly reasonable for you to expect to be able to have a dog to hike off leash with you in the rockies. Put time into training a solid recall and use a GPS collar for back up. Wild animals are really not as much of a threat as people make you think. I spend a lot of time alone in wilderness areas and never have issues. Most predators you may encounter will be deathly afraid of you and your dog in most situations. Grizzlys and wolves may be the exception, Grizzlys are rare in the US outside of Alaska and depending on the area of the rockies so are wolves.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

astrovan2487 said:


> You really dont need to spend big bucks on a dog that will do what you are asking for, maybe $1500-$5000. As others have said it would be best to get a puppy from a good breeder that has proven dogs in their pedigree; actual Police dogs, IPO/Schutzhund, PSA, French Ring titled dogs. It's perfectly reasonable for you to expect to be able to have a dog to hike off leash with you in the rockies. Put time into training a solid recall and use a GPS collar for back up. Wild animals are really not as much of a threat as people make you think. I spend a lot of time alone in wilderness areas and never have issues. Most predators you may encounter will be deathly afraid of you and your dog in most situations. Grizzlys and wolves may be the exception, Grizzlys are rare in the US outside of Alaska and depending on the area of the rockies so are wolves.




I agree with you completely. I have found puppies from good breeders...it's my wife who insists on a trained adult for some reason? Someone told her that would be best and our previous puppy experience wasn't good. Not, that was not a GSD but a completely different situation. I am still working/searching for the best answer.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

A friend emailed me to see if I had (or knew anyone) who is interested in this dog. He is 3.5 years old and originally from Romania. It's not his dog and I'm not sure on pricing. Per his email:


> If anyone is interested in a nice trained European German Shepherd male from Champion Bloodlines..I found a man that is interested in selling his..


 PM me if you are interested and I'll give you his email.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

*Working line*

I just spoke with Bill Kulla who comes highly recommended. He seemed to understand exactly what I want. He said a puppy would be great if it comes from the right breeder, like many on here have said, however the wife wants an older trained dog. He is going to do some looking for me so I will see what he comes up with. I think the working line is more like what we want to go for.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Is your wife reading all the replies?


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> Is your wife reading all the replies?



HaHa no She says a puppy will be ok now. OMG!


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Just think .. now that she's changed her mind you can buy your dog a jeep with the money you save!


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

astrovan2487 said:


> You really dont need to spend big bucks on a dog that will do what you are asking for, maybe $1500-$5000. As others have said it would be best to get a puppy from a good breeder that has proven dogs in their pedigree; actual Police dogs, IPO/Schutzhund, PSA, French Ring titled dogs. It's perfectly reasonable for you to expect to be able to have a dog to hike off leash with you in the rockies. Put time into training a solid recall and use a GPS collar for back up. Wild animals are really not as much of a threat as people make you think. I spend a lot of time alone in wilderness areas and never have issues. Most predators you may encounter will be deathly afraid of you and your dog in most situations. Grizzlys and wolves may be the exception, Grizzlys are rare in the US outside of Alaska and depending on the area of the rockies so are wolves.


Yea, definitely a good breeder with some proven dogs sounds like an excellent idea. On GPS collars how accurate are those though? I've heard on some of them they stop working at a certain range?

Grizzlies are getting a lot more common and populated at least in some areas in my state, not as rare as they could be. Quite a few ranchers and farmers have been seeing them and a few have been having problems with them. So it highly friends on the area you are in, not just that outside of Alaska they aren't really there because trust me, there are. And they can be a real danger when they have cubs, which dogs might think are great curious thing to check out! Wild animals aren't always a big threat, but you should make sure you stay aware of the fact that they can be.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

GPS collars are highly reliable. I use Garmin Alpha's. They will lose signal depending on the terrain at anywhere from 800 yards to 2 miles, but there is no reason for a dog to stray farther than 100 yards, maybe 200 at most, so I've never had a problem with losing signal. They are pricey. But far cheaper than an 80 K dog!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I just got a chance to use a Garmin Alpha. It's been on my wishlist for a long time anyway, so it was fun to see what it was really like. So easy t lose sight of a dog in the foliage but I could look at my readout and know he was actually 40 yards away and not moving. Another time I saw he had crossed onto the neighbor's property and was moving at a clip in the opposite direction so I beeped him back. Pretty cool. I didn't even use most of the features, it can do WAY more than what I did with it.


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## John C. (Mar 6, 2013)

Just a quick comment on puppies vs. adults. I agree that raising a dog from the time they are a puppy creates a tremendous bond between dog and owner. But it is a huge amount of work. And, if you are inexperienced you can create problems for yourself down the road if you mishandle training, socialization, etc. Plus, with an older dog you know what you are going to end up with. A puppy, even from the best breeder, is always going to be something of a crap shoot.


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

John C. said:


> Just a quick comment on puppies vs. adults. I agree that raising a dog from the time they are a puppy creates a tremendous bond between dog and owner. But it is a huge amount of work. And, if you are inexperienced you can create problems for yourself down the road if you mishandle training, socialization, etc. Plus, with an older dog you know what you are going to end up with. A puppy, even from the best breeder, is always going to be something of a crap shoot.


All things I have learned through this selection process. I will have the time, as I will be retiring from the Navy. I will find a local trainer that can help to ensure I am doing things correctly. Those were the boss's stipulations and things I want anyway.


I believe Weberhaus has a pairing that I am really interested in. Puppies are so much easier to find so my options have expanded. I ran that info by Carmen who said I should get a wonderful dog from them.
*SG- Kim vom Klodner Riss IPO1 x Arek von der Wedeme IPO3 KKL*

This site has been such a wonderful help! Will definitely be back to show off the pup and learn more about training my GSD.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

divenvy said:


> All things I have learned through this selection process. I will have the time, as I will be retiring from the Navy. I will find a local trainer that can help to ensure I am doing things correctly. Those were the boss's stipulations and things I want anyway.
> 
> 
> I believe Weberhaus has a pairing that I am really interested in. Puppies are so much easier to find so my options have expanded. I ran that info by Carmen who said I should get a wonderful dog from them.
> ...


Hey divenvy, have you been able to see any of these types of dogs in person? Have your family around them at all?


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## divenvy (May 4, 2017)

Just wanted to close out this by telling everyone we decided on Weberhaus. Getting a male puppy from the *SG- Kim vom Klodner Riss IPO1 x Arek von der Wedeme IPO3 KKL *breeding when that occurs.

I'll have time to work with him and will find a trainer to help us out.


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