# help picking a litter



## lockhart52 (Jan 3, 2012)

I Would like input on these breedings. Anything helps If you know the dogs, know lines, info on kennel or just your opinion 

sire 
**** von Weltwi
SG **** von Weltwitz - German Shepherd Dog

Dam 
SG Ora vom Klietzer See
SG Ora vom Klietzer See - German Shepherd Dog

or 

sire
SG Racker vom Gleisdreieck
SG Racker vom Gleisdreieck - German Shepherd Dog

Dam
Enschy von der Salztal-Hohe
Enschy von der Salztal-Hohe - German Shepherd Dog


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I think it would depend on what you want a dog for. The first litter combo, the sire is all DDR lines and the mom is from top German working lines that are also known for their conformation.

The 2nd litter is from a bitch from strong German working lines and the male is DDR working (Lord v G.) + German working. 

If I wanted a really good looking dog who was likely to be protective but also able to do most any sport or working activity (an all-arounder with a protective edge), I'd pick the first litter.

If I wanted to do schutzhund or another competitive bitework activity or SAR or K9 work, I'd probably look harder at the 2nd litter. 

But I'd listen to what the breeders had to say over my impressions....


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## lockhart52 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am starting a job as a dog trainer and looking for a demo. I also want to do sch as well. thank you for the info


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

I have a dear friend who has a demo dog for her obedience business. Is that the type of training or?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Christine, does the Sven/Sindy combo bother you at all or is it all overblown?


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Christine, does the Sven/Sindy combo bother you at all or is it all overblown?


I think it's something to be aware of. It's one reason why I mentioned the likely "protective" edge in the first breeding combo. Another reason is my experience with my 18-month-old female who is bred 2-4 on Sven, and she's absolutely fantastic with kids and small puppies, death to cats and chickens, and very protective of her space and objects (lots of guarding instinct). Her mom also has that natural protective instinct--is it just the DDR-type coming through or is it from Sven--or a bit of both? 

At any rate, Xita is closely related to **** v Weltwitz --compare her pedigree (V XITA VOM LUDWIGSECK - German Shepherd Dog) to his (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=591626). And I am drawing on my experience with her and her pups when I look at this breeding. 

In all breeding, imo, there's a strong reversion to the mean -- the extremes, the ones out there on the ends of the curve, can be used to tilt the mean, but in general, if the other factors in a pedigree are stabilizing and not aggregating, then the progeny are going to still remain close to the mean....

Also, in general, it seems that only Boban was an extreme outlier--that his full siblings may have some of the same traits but not to his extreme degree. I would worry more about a linebreeding on Sindy than just the presence of a Sven/Sindy progeny. 

So, when I see a dog in a pedigree who has been bred to by some of the top breeders in Europe, who himself has passed the Koerung and titled to the Sch3 level and even gotten an FH... I think that this dog is not one of the outliers, even if his brother is. (Remember that brother couldn't pass the Koerung and only has a Sch1--people may disparage the schutzhund titles, but sometimes the screening process does work!) 


Going back to the proposed breeding, the proposed dam is a German working line female, going back to Sid vh Gremm -- known for producing hardness and high pain thresholds. Metin v Stadtfeld -- known for producing excellent conformation and good looks without losing working ability. And she's linebred on Troll v BN--known for drive, trainability, and strong temperament. 

So, no, in this breeding, I don't think that there are huge red flags. I would like to spend some time with the female to know what sort of dog is she -- how much "edge" is she bringing to the table? If she is a bit "thin" in the nerves, this could be a bit of a scary combo.... but I sort of doubt that's the case--both because of the pedigree and because I get the feeling that these pedigrees aren't just being thrown together b/c they are the two dogs the breeder happened to have standing around. I think both these pedigrees and this proposed breeding have been carefully crafted toward a goal.

The question I have then is: Does what I want out of my puppy match the goals of this breeding?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Wow, thank you very much for the knowledge. I'm a big fan of Sven and his progeny but have always been warned off of the Sven/Sindy combo and have no first-hand knowledge of any dogs with that particular breeding. I appreciate your insight.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I love when Christine talks dogs...LOL!


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

:blush: :blush: Thanks for the kind words.

I ended up looking again at the pedigree of my female who is 2-4 on Sven and realized that she is even more closely related to ****--her dad is a Sven son bred to a Saskia daughter (Saskia being a Sindy littermate): 

Blackthorn's Oda - German Shepherd Dog


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