# German Show Line that Works?



## jpgsds (Jan 5, 2013)

Can you not have a great working German Show Line? I am hoping someone can explain the differences in Show Lines and Working Lines more in depth than just color and and perceived temperament (with the Show being more family and the working having more drive). I know this is a more working line friendly forum, but I am wanting to buy a pup for Heidi Theishof who breeds show lines. However, I still want a dog that is going to be healthy, has appropriate drive to be able to train and work and still be a great inside family dog. The info on structure (angulation) seems really confusing. Do working lines have better structure? Maybe if you have a chance take a look at the link below and let me know about the litter I want. I think Heidi knows exactly what I want, but I am still seeking a better understanding about the differences in the two lines....

vom Theishof's Upcoming Litters


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Do working lines have better structure?


Depends on who you ask


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Working line people often think their dogs have the best structure. BUT the same goes for showline people. Even then, WGSL breeders prefer their own over ASL and vice versa (usually, not always). 
I have seen a lot of WGSL dogs who can work and love to do so. I have also seen some ASL dogs who would shock you with how good they are at their work (one of our local k9 officers by my parents' is actually ASL). 
If you go to a reputable breeder, they should be able to offer a dog with a stable temperament, at least fairly good conformation and a nice amount of drive.


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## Yoschi's_Pet_Human (Nov 13, 2012)

I have a WGSL dog with a long line of Schutzhund titled dogs in his pedigree.. both parents Schh3
I'm certainly looking at a Schh future for Yoschi


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you want someone that knows how to work a WGSL then you picked the right person. A few years back my SchH trainer and I watched two of Heidi's dogs in bitework and he (a working line person) was impressed. I've only met Heidi once but have huge respect for her, whatever "type" she's breeding, because she really knows her stuff and trains and titles dogs herself. As far as I know she's very well respected among the show and Schutzhund community.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you use a reputable breeder you're going
to get a lot more than "fairly good conformation".



GsdLoverr729 said:


> Working line people often think their dogs have the best structure. BUT the same goes for showline people. Even then, WGSL breeders prefer their own over ASL and vice versa (usually, not always).
> I have seen a lot of WGSL dogs who can work and love to do so. I have also seen some ASL dogs who would shock you with how good they are at their work (one of our local k9 officers by my parents' is actually ASL).
> 
> >>>> If you go to a reputable breeder, they should be able to offer a dog with a stable temperament, at least fairly good conformation and a nice amount of drive.<<<< [/QUOTE]


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

PS. as far as the generalizations I think it's a waste of time. If you want a dog that can work, then research lines that have proven working ability and get a dog that can work from a breeder that actually works dogs and knows what they're talking about. Heidi knows how to train and title a dog so she can surely provide you with a dog that can work, if that is what you want. I find it makes more sense to study the lines and pedigrees of dogs I'm actually interested in than try to create generalizations about certain traits like conformation or working ability. Also these things all mean different things to different people anyway, and it's nothing personal. Some of my club members have dogs you couldn't pay me to own but guess what, they are SchH titled (or will be) themselves so they definitely "can work".


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i have a WGSL from a line that has titles, numbers, abbreviations
and all sorts of stuff after their names. they work. mine is a
cuddle bear, go everywhere dog. you can train your dog to
be the type of dog you want.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> when you use a reputable breeder you're going
> to get a lot more than "fairly good conformation".


 I know, that's why I said "at least." Taking into account a good breeder who is JUST starting out, or a pup who ends up being very much pet quality. You're not likely to get one who doesn't have good conformation, but it can happen lol!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

jpgsds said:


> The info on structure (angulation) seems really confusing. Do working lines have better structure?


Don't worry too much about the "angulation" stuff--as long as extremes are avoided, I think it's mostly a cosmetic issue. Angulation is fashionable in show lines, both American and, to a lesser extent, German. Moderate angulation is what you normally see in working lines. Barring extremes, I don't think angulation makes much difference unless you intend to show in conformation events.

In my opinion, working lines have better *working* structure... but show line folks will say the same thing about their dogs! My position is, form should follow function. Whichever structure *works* better, is hardier, with the fewest injuries, and sounder into old age, is the better structure. Of the elderly GSDs I've known, the oldest and healthiest have been working line dogs.

But I have to be clear, dogs with "working" structure do not usually win conformation shows, or get the highest show ratings, so apparently there are many, many knowledgable people, including breeders and judges, who disagree with me! 

Oh, and I expect those of you with elderly show line dogs to tell me how great your dogs are doing, and post pictures of them.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I have also seen some ASL dogs who would shock you with how good they are at their work (one of our local k9 officers by my parents' is actually ASL). 

This can be true -- I have had them , though that was a long time ago, and occassionally I see them . Linda Shaws male Corry could . He came from a background that I knew well and represented some solid stable temperaments. He was then bred to one of my females, sister to Carmspack Kilo and that produced her competition dog SchH3 "Timmy" Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs

however , the question is , when is the next time you will find that diamond in the coal dust? Bethany Anne got some GSD Reviews from the 70's and she can tell you that there was some genuine interest in working aptitude in the ASL community . Over years that deteriorated and so did the dogs ability.


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## jpgsds (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank you all for your input. I think Heidi and I are on the same page with what I am looking for. I am going to our local Schutzhund club tomorrow for my first experience in training and working GSDs! They have WGSL and Working lines there so it should help my understanding. However, the debate over health and longevity still seems like more of an opinion than a fact to me, which a few of you alluded to. My bet is that Heidi's pups are going to be more than able, especially for a first time GSD owner. Thanks again for your input and if anyone has anything to add please do so as I will be checking back in soon.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I have personally put my hands on several of Heidi's dogs, from young puppies to senior citizens. I have seen them training, and laying around the house. Her puppies are everything you would expect a healthy, happy puppy to be and her seniors are active and engaged dogs who enjoy being a part of whatever is going on. 

She knows the breed. She knows her dogs. She knows training. You just can't go wrong with her. 
Sheilah


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## jpgsds (Jan 5, 2013)

Very cool experience today at a working/training GSD club. I was able to see WGSLs, Working lines, high drive, low drive, hyper drive, finished dogs, pups, males, females... everything. For anyone that is trying to figure out all the variables before getting your first GSD I highly suggest going to see these dogs in action. A couple of weeks ago I was actually offended when a working line (serious, serious working very high drive line) breeder told me that her dogs were not right for me... That these pups needed an experienced handler. Now I see that she was doing me a favor and that she was in fact absolutely right. I have read tons of information and nothing helped as much as going to see the dogs in person. I would go as far as to suggest it is irresponsible to buy your first GSD without going to see the different temperaments work in person. Now I am more confident than ever in Theishof for my first GSD and cannot wait to begin the training! Thank you to all of you that patiently answered my questions and have helped me get to this point. I am sure in the spring the training questions will begin! Thanks again


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## jpgsds (Jan 5, 2013)

My puppy has been born! 

https://www.facebook.com/TheishofGermanShepherds?ref=ts&fref=ts

vom Theishof's Upcoming Litters


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## Elmos (Oct 26, 2014)

*Female WGSL working (Greece)*

Don't you like that?

It;s a WGSL !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBR8LAtRVw4


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