# Thoughts on my new girl!?!?!



## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

We pick her up in 4 more weeks. Red Sable??? Any ideas on how she might turn out? Pretty strong bloodline! First Shepherd and was a little skeptical not getting a traditional. Thanks guys and gals!


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

What does the breeder say she is?

She looks more brown than red to me. Can you post her pedigree?


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

She is pretty. She looks like a long coat to me.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Is she a liver? Do you have another picture--that one is kind of hard to make out. 

where are you getting her from?


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## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

I was told she was a red sable, or liver. Are they the same? 

*Father:*
*VA Irsus Veracruz IPO2, SchH3 Kkl 1a L.B.Z. DNA ZW*
Irsus is the son of 2X World Sieger VA1 Larus von Batu, Grand-son of 2X World Sieger VA1 Yasko vom Farbenspiel and Great-Grandson of World Sieger VA1 Ursus von Batu.

*Mother:*
*V Kosma vom Zellwaldrand SchH1 Kkl 1a*
Grand-Daughter of 2X World Sieger VA1 Larus von Batu SchH3 Kkl 1a 
Great Grand-Daughter of 2X World Sieger VA1 Yasko vom Farbenspeil SchH3 Kkl 1a

Does anyone have any information on the pedigree? I'm kind of new to this. Thanks!​


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## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

She is on the right of the above pic by the way!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

They look like livers to me as well.

Which kennel did you get her from?

I searched the mother and father in the PDB and something isn't adding up for me....


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## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

Kolenda Kennels.... What isn't adding up? Would be very curious to know. Thanks!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Not a sable. She's liver and tan. 

Which means she'll look much like the classic black and tan, except what would be black markings on a black and tan dog will be chocolate brown on her. Liver is a disqualifying fault under the standard. No big deal for pet or any performance activities, and there are no health issues associated with it, but it would prevent her from conformation showing. If you're not interested in showing, that doesn't matter. Though the breeder should know what color it is (NOT red sable) and be upfront with you about these things, and since this is a kennel professing to sell show line pups for show homes I would think you'd get a pretty hefty price discount for a dog with a disqualifying fault.

ETA: Both pups in the second pic are liver and tan.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Those are definitely livers. Livers are not common: someone else will have to explain the genetics though. I think they are considered a "fault" by the AKC? This would only matter if you were going to show her. I think they're beautiful. 

I also have noticed a couple "breeders" selling livers for more money by claiming they are "rare." :thumbsdown:

ETA: posted at the same time as Chris...who knows far more than I about breeding.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> T*hough the breeder should know what color it is (NOT red sable)* and be upfront with you about these things, and *since this is a kennel professing to sell show line pups for show homes* I would think you'd get a pretty hefty price discount for a dog with a disqualifying fault.


This.

And like I mentioned, for some reason when I put them into the PDB something isn't sitting right with me with what is coming up with my search - might just be me though.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Edit: Chris said everything I would have said.

Any idea why the bitch is listed as being "V" rated on the kennel website but "SG" on pedigree database? Can a dog be re-surveyed?


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## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

Not interested in the least bit on showing her. We live on a small farm, and have wanted a dog for quite awhile. Neither my wife or myself have owned a shepherd, and still don't know exactly what to expect. We did want a great bloodline. The comment about something being odd about the pedigree is a little disheartening. Does anyone else see anything off or odd there? 

@ Chris - We did get a discount due to her not being a traditional.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Kolanda does business with Bill Fleischer (Fleischerheim) so that can't be a good sign.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

mrizer7773 said:


> The comment about something being odd about the pedigree is a little disheartening. Does anyone else see anything off or odd there?


The thing that stuck out to me is that the breeder lists her as being V- rated, or excellent, while Pedigree Database lists her as being rated SG, or very good. Is someone mistaken? Was she re-surveyed? Does that happen?


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## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

For the record, they never advertised her as a Red Sable. When she was being described to me over the phone, they said sable, they said red, they said liver, they said dark and light brown, they said no black, they pretty much covered everything! LOL! Obviously there is some bad blood on here with the kennel. Like I mentioned, new to this...didn't mean to start WWIII...LOL!


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Most of the dogs shown on kolanda are dogs that use to be on fleischerhiem's site. It looks to me like they may be in partnership. Fleischer has taken down their puppy prices which were $2500 (for runts and pups with ears chewed off) to $7500. Enough said.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

To your orginal question...she's cute!


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## nikkiscriv (Feb 10, 2010)

I don't know anything about either kennel other than what I've read on here, but I think she is absolutely gorgeous! I don't think I've ever seen a liver before - she sure is pretty!


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Liver and tan for sure - you can tell by the nose color  The color is a disqualifying fault for conformation showing, which is why she is being sold for a discounted price. Her diluted color won't affect her ability to be a good pet and they are attractive dogs. FYI they can be more prone to vaccine reactions, so I would suggest following a vaccine protocol that splits the vaccines instead of giving combo shots (a good idea anyway really). 

These pictures should give you an idea about what the color will look like on an adult GSD:


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Liver! Mah favorite color.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Congrats on the new pup she's a cutie!


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I had never seen a liver GSD before, they look cute! And your new puppy is adorable :wub:


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

Congrats on your new puppy. I've never seen a liver before, either.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Emoore said:


> The thing that stuck out to me is that the breeder lists her as being V- rated, or excellent, while Pedigree Database lists her as being rated SG, or very good. Is someone mistaken? Was she re-surveyed? Does that happen?


Yes, I believe dogs can be resurveyed? But I'd question if she really is a V or not if it hasn't been updated in PBD. 

Is it common for 2 dogs in the same litter to be liver? Interesting since they are so rare.


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## mrizer7773 (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks for the compliments! Needless to say we are pretty excited to be getting her! I have seen soooo many examples of what they could look like as they mature. Should be very interesting to watch! Thanks again for everyones input.


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