# Problems with breeder



## Schulinda (May 24, 2011)

I purchased a GSD puppy last year, June 2010. First time with this breed, they were never a favourite of mine. I found a breeder that had the look and temperament that I was looking for - ***name removed by Admin***

When I picked up my new puppy, my contract/bill of sale was supposed put in the "care pkg" I was given. As I was half way home, (3 hours drive) I realized that it was not in the bag as instructed. I immediately called the breeder and ask for him to mail it. I never received it! I emailed numerous times, but never received it.

It has now been over a year, and I have not received my CKC papers either. I contacted the breeder at 6 months asking where they were and told should have by December 2010. Emailed again in April because I still did not have and told would check with CKC and let me know by end of that week....now 5 weeks later and still no response from breeder.

I spoke with CKC but without that bill of sale, I cannot do anything...I am now wanting to get the word our there so that other people don't run into the same problem with this breeder.

*BEWARE!*

*My dog however, is wonderful and beautiful with a GREAT temperament.*


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

Schulinda said:


> I purchased a GSD puppy last year, June 2010. First time with this breed, they were never a favourite of mine.


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## 1der_girl (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't think you can post stuff like this... I was under the impression that negitave things must be in PM's only??


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## AgileOllie (May 13, 2011)

VomBlack said:


>


\

I'm confused too.


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## 1der_girl (Aug 16, 2006)

Also, just googled them- looks like they don't title their dogs, couldn't find OFA or pedigree info on the site, and they're in "Amish country"-- all red flags too me.


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## RogueRed26 (Jul 15, 2010)

Well, its horrible to know that there are people out there just trying to make a buck and get away with supplying what was promised. =(


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## mfj (May 14, 2011)

1der_girl said:


> I don't think you can post stuff like this... I was under the impression that negitave things must be in PM's only??


Well let's thank God that you're not in charge. Threads like this need to be made public so others don't fall into the same trap. OP, thank you for making this thread.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

mfj said:


> Well let's thank God that you're not in charge. Threads like this need to be made public so others don't fall into the same trap. OP, thank you for making this thread.



It's a RULE, It's called BREEDER BASHING. Or did you miss that when you read the rules???


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## 1der_girl (Aug 16, 2006)

mfj- All I was saying is that I think the mods (the people who ARE in charge) will probably delete or edit the original post. I see you joined this month- maybe you are unaware of the current board policies?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Mods will probably edit out the kennel name.

Think of it as a lesson learned. If this is CKC as in continental kennel club you can probably register your dog again. Plenty of info on here about finding a good breeder for your future GSDs.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Did you get/buy a breed that isn't your favorite or was the breeder not a favorite? I can't imagine purchasing a dog that wasn't my favorite. That's kinda the fun in getting a dog.  I am insane?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

mfj said:


> Well let's thank God that you're not in charge. Threads like this need to be made public so others don't fall into the same trap. OP, thank you for making this thread.


Actually, maybe it would be a good idea for you to check out the rules for the forum. Listing out a breeder's names with negatives against them, makes for telling one side of the story. If a breeder comes on to tell their side, there is a disadvantage as they will be defensive, and it will get nasty. Also, the owner of the board could have problems with liable/slander (I mix those up) if people use this venue to attack their breeders. 

So check out the board rules -- you agreed to them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah that was odd, why did you purchase a dog, when the breed that is not your favorite. 

What are your plans for the dog, were you planning on breeding or showing? If so, I would probably send a registered letter saying that you are filing in small claims court if they do not provide the papers within a set timeframe -- make it reasonable -- they may have to order duplicate registration forms or something. 

I do not think you will get ANY help from any other authority, even BBB. 

Otherwise, if you are planning on showing in obedience or other performance events, get a PAL number for your dog -- the dog does need to be neutered for this.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

That really sucks. I probably would have turned around and went back to get it, but I'm really used to very long drives. I think if they don't give you a bill of sale, can't they actually claim you stole the puppy? Sounds like a sticky situation.

I never really understood how it's breeder bashing if it's just someone posting their negative experience and not personally attacking the breeder. I thought breeder bashing is something like 'so and so is a terrible person with bad breath and eats puppies for breakfast'.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

mfj said:


> Well let's thank God that you're not in charge. Threads like this need to be made public so others don't fall into the same trap. OP, thank you for making this thread.



Apparently you haven't notice that an ADMIN agreed and deleted the breeder name. Yes, because they ARE in charge.
If you want to know who it is, feel free to pm the OP!


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## Kay (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm assuming by CKC the OP mean "Canadian Kennel Club". 

I'm sorry this happened to you OP, but at least you know what to look out for next time.

Also, I'm confused that you claim the GSD was never a favorite of yours, yet you purchased one...?


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Syaoransbear said:


> I never really understood how it's breeder bashing if it's just someone posting their negative experience and not personally attacking the breeder. I thought breeder bashing is something like 'so and so is a terrible person with bad breath and eats puppies for breakfast'.


Breeder bashing would have to do more with their breeding program than their personal self.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not think it makes for good threads if someone comes on and airs out their horrible experience with a breeder. Then someone sends a link to the breeder, and they come on and tries to defend themselves. 

Some people tell the honest to God truth. Some embellish the truth. Some tell flat out lies because they are angry at people. 

If the breeder came on here and said that the people Forgot their papers and then immediately stopped payment on their check and refused to pay for the puppy, so they did not send the papers on, then people might believe the OP, and they may believe the breeder. Who is lying?

Then it can go back and forth and back and forth. 

The thing is, the anonymous poster who does not have their NAME anywhere, will not be hurt by the bashing. But the breeder who's reputation is very important can take a serious hit. 

It is not good for the forum to support that kind of stuff. 

We cannot mount investigations into the truth of the matter, so putting a breeder's name in a bad light is not fair. 

Sorry, but if you want to know, PM the poster, and understand that you are getting one side of the story.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

If its the breeder I am thinking about, they were featured on Pick-A-Puppy not too long ago. You really should have done more research before buying  I hate that show with a passion. They RARELY go to ethical/reponsible breeders and poor people like the OP fall for it...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

MFJ, here we go again,,,READ THE RULES OF THIS FORUM if you haven't already done so.

Rules are rules, breeder bashing is not allowed, if one wishes to know the NAME of said breeder, EMAIL the OP and I'm sure they'd be happy to pass it along. But PRINTING their name in this forum is not allowed for just the reasons Selzer brought up above.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Honestly, If the OP would like to come back and post some answers to the questions asked of them, as in "if this wasn't your fav breed why get one?" etc. Feel free to do so..

I am one who tends to discount one time posters who come on here post something negative and then never come back..I apologize in advance if your not one of them


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

I am still trying to figure out why you would buy a breed that was never your favorite?


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

vat said:


> I am still trying to figure out why you would buy a breed that was never your favorite?


me too :thinking:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Maybe you would if you were a puppy mill and GSDs were one of the most popular breeds... Not my favorite breed, but I know I will be able to sell the puppies to the wholesaler who will take them to various pet stores... 50 -100 $ a head, will make it worthwhile to deal with another GSD in your stable. And those CKC (if they are continental kennel club) papers will be all the more important then.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Perhaps the OP meant something like......"They (GSDs) were not a favourite breed of choice until they knew more about them...and decided to purchase one...?"
It could be a simple mistake of communication....
At the end of the post...they state how wonderful the dog is.

IDK...just trying to be an optimist.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

selzer said:


> Maybe you would if you were a puppy mill and GSDs were one of the most popular breeds... Not my favorite breed, but I know I will be able to sell the puppies to the wholesaler who will take them to various pet stores... 50 -100 $ a head, will make it worthwhile to deal with another GSD in your stable. And those CKC (if they are continental kennel club) papers will be all the more important then.


Ya the OP did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling at all. I was thinking the same as you.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If the "CKC" papers were from the Continental Kennel Club, they're not worth the paper they're printed on anyway so don't feel too bad about never receiving them.


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

The OP is from Ontario and is talking about the Canadian Kennel Club


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Deathmetal said:


> The OP is from Ontario and is talking about the Canadian Kennel Club


If the OP has some kind of receipt, even a cancelled check, can't they report it to the CKC or the parent club? 

Not that anything would be done but like the Better Business Bureau, eventually all the negatives start to add up and people would take notice. Just a thought.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Oh sorry I had no way to know where they are from. 

If it is Canadian Kennel Club, they can report it but I don't think the club can really do anything.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

without a contract or bill of sale? Can the CKC do anything, really? I am not sure. If it was AKC, you have to keep records of where the dogs were placed, so I think they could tell you to release the papers. But it could still be it's his word against mine, deal.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I don't think it's that big of a deal if someone gets a dog that isn't their _favorite_ breed. My favorite breed is a german shepherd, but my next dog is probably not going to be one since my fiance really wants a great pyrenees and I'm not sure if I can keep up with _two_ very energetic, drivey dogs at the same time.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> ...my fiance really wants a great pyrenees and I'm not sure if I can keep up with _two_ very energetic, drivey dogs at the same time.


What?!?!?


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Davey Benson said:


> What?!?!?


I mean I _love_ german shepherds and I'd like a second dog, but I don't know if I could keep up with two german shepherds at the same time, so our next dog might be more of a calm couch potato dog. The german shepherd I have already seems to have endless energy and needs two hours of exercise a day, I'm not sure I'd be able to do _4_ hours of exercise a day since I'm probably too weak to walk/jog two german shepherds at the same time if they are equally drivey.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I don't think Great Pyrenees are couch potatoes, I heard they like to be outdoors. My cousins does.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Great Pyrenees aren't couch potatoes, but the one we had was calmer than any dog I've ever had. She would play when asked, but was cool when you stopped. She was probably the coolest dog I've ever had. However, I don't know what they would be like inside. Ours was a farm dog who we had to guard the sheep.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

Oh, OK.  I thought you ment that pyrs were drivey. No, I understand now. I admire (and am amazed by) those who have multiple German Shepherds.


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## Schulinda (May 24, 2011)

It's not that I want to papers to breed her or anything....I just think when you pay $1700 with the understanding you are getting a registered dog and warranty....you should get what you paid for!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Probably-but the solution these days seems to be if you don't get what you want come on the internet and complain-make sure to mention the breeders name too-You got a dog with a good temperment-why not try again -with the breeder for the papers


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If the papers are that important, then I don't take the dog home without it. I need papers for the various competitions we do (not because I feel it adds value to the dog, or because I want to breed), so when I buy a dog, I expect to have my registration paper and everything else I was told I am getting (health records, copies of the parents' registrations, OFAs/a-stamps, Koer reports, and scorebooks). If not, then I can confront them while I am there, in person, before I write a check and before I buy a dog. Yes, ideally if someone says something they will follow through but there are plenty of scammy breeders AND plenty of good ones that will simply give you everything you paid for up front. No need to dabble around in the gray area.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Liesje said:


> If the papers are that important, then I don't take the dog home without it. I need papers for the various competitions we do (not because I feel it adds value to the dog, or because I want to breed), so when I buy a dog, I expect to have my registration paper and everything else I was told I am getting (health records, copies of the parents' registrations, OFAs/a-stamps, Koer reports, and scorebooks). If not, then I can confront them while I am there, in person, before I write a check and before I buy a dog. Yes, ideally if someone says something they will follow through but there are plenty of scammy breeders AND plenty of good ones that will simply give you everything you paid for up front. No need to dabble around in the gray area.


I agree, period.


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## suzzyq01 (Feb 15, 2011)

Schulinda said:


> It's not that I want to papers to breed her or anything....I just think when you pay $1700 with the understanding you are getting a registered dog and warranty....you should get what you paid for!


Well, for that much money I would have made sure before I left I had everything I needed and asked questions if I couldn't find it. I do know that you were prob very excited to have your new puppy and get her home and everything else just flew out the window. 

The breeder should respond to you, IMO I would draft a letter very nicely requesting the papers/original bos and pointing out that you have requested for them several times through email/phone without response and validate with dates of your request without response. Then send it certified mail to their home. They will have to sign to get it and you will get a post card back with the signature of the person who got it. If there is no response within 14 days (phone call/email/letter) then you might want to open a civil court case. This can take years to even be seen before the judge, and most of the time the other party will become complaint within the time frame to not go into court and soil their name/reputation (if they have one or care).

Live and learn.

The next time you purchase a puppy from a breeder make sure you have everything you need before you walk out the door with the puppy.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

lots of times the papers don't come with the dog, mine were sent to me. it's not that uncommon


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't know how the CKC works, but many breeders advertise that they are member in good standing with the CKC. How about lodging a complaint with the CKC against this breeder. I did check out the CKC with the breeders that I was interested in to make sure that they were members in good standing.

How did you pay for your dog? Cash or certified cheque or money order? If the latter two then you have proof that you purchased the dog from this kennel.

I went through the same hassle as you over my cat. It ended up that the mother of the cat was not registered and it took them a long time to do that. I finally got my blue slip, but never did register him as he is neutered and really no point. I just wanted what I paid for. I was going to lodge a complaint against the breeder with the registry (forget name) wanted a payment from me of $50.00 to do so.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When you are dealing with imports, papers do take longer. I have submitted the paperwork for Odessa's AKC registration, waiting on that, so I can register the litter -- cupcake is nearly six months old, and her owner has had her since two months. Luckily, she knows better than I do that these things take time. And ours have come through very timely from Germany, it is just that there is a variety of different hurdles. 

Once she has her AKC number, I have to register the litter with the rest of the paperwork that came over as she was sent to me bred. 

So sometimes, you do not walk out the door with your registration papers. But the paperwork that was forgotten and asked to be sent on, should have been done so without delay. If you have gone back and forth several times, and the breeder does not have a reasonable explanation -- such as the dog was imported -- heard some papers do take up to a year to get straightened out, then you should probably go to the next step and send a letter from you lawyer.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Selzer...you are correct.
I have an imported female and just NOW have a corrected Bescheinigung, so she can be AKC registered. After that...she must be DNA certified...and THEN, the litter can be registered.
Because the original owner (from Germany) had a co-owner from a different country....it was a slight "mess" to straighten out.
The original litter is now 10 mos old........so YES....it can take much longer to register a litter from an imported parent, especially when there are "bumps" along the way.......many people don't understand these types of things.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, the owner in my case did not sign off on the pedigree, and then we had to get the bescheinigung, and a ---bescheinigung for the sire of the litter, and his pedigree, and it was a little nerve racking at times, but I got her in the end of December and it is only May, so I have been told we are doing great. 

And the people over there really did take care of this in good time. 

But a pet purchaser, who has been told by friends, relatives, and people over the internet thay he is out of luck because he did not get the papers with the puppy, _that person_ might be going nuts right now.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Since we breed to keep, I try to explain to buyers......"I am keeping a litter-mate for future competition & breeding prospect. I WILL have papers on all my litters and dogs (as will you). I have way too much invested to sell or keep "paper-less" dogs.
They then have the choice to buy the puppy....or go elsewhere. 
Our reputation means everything to us....could not fathom jeopardizing it over a puppy sale.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> Selzer...you are correct.
> I have an imported female and just NOW have a corrected Bescheinigung, so she can be AKC registered. After that...she must be DNA certified...and THEN, the litter can be registered.
> Because the original owner (from Germany) had a co-owner from a different country....it was a slight "mess" to straighten out.
> The original litter is now 10 mos old........so YES....it can take much longer to register a litter from an imported parent, especially when there are "bumps" along the way.......many people don't understand these types of things.


Schulinda, is this the case w/ your puppy? Was your puppy imported?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Or it's dam, or the semen imported -- any of them could make things more interesting.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

We had to wait to receive Max's papers in the mail, like many others here. Maybe the hold up isn't with the breeder. Have you called them to follow up your email?

You are happy with your dog- great temperament, etc. Pup is healthy. Why come online anonymously and attack this breeders reputation publicly? 

I am always amazed at how easily people can try to ruin someone's reputation because they are mad at them. :thumbsdown:


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Nothing to add, just curious if the OP ever came back to answer questions.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

CarrieJ said:


> Nothing to add, just curious if the OP ever came back to answer questions.


The OP posted on page four of this thread...



Schulinda said:


> It's not that I want to papers to breed her or anything....I just think when you pay $1700 with the understanding you are getting a registered dog and warranty....you should get what you paid for!


 
That one was anyway...


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