# Pedigree Analysis



## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

What would you consider being the best sport to compete in with a puppy from these lines, any comments on them as well would be greatly appreciated!

Dam - Luna Marie Glenn

Sire - his # is DN33462508 but I cannot seem to find his pedigree but I have found his parents which are Sire - Nero von Moyer Haus and Dam - Gino's Lady Li


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You have a little bit of everything in there - West German Show lines, well-bred American show lines, and BYB pet dogs. 

Very difficult to predict anything from such a mix, where the breedings were most likely done just because certain dogs were available for breeding, as opposed to being the result of a long-term breeding program with specific goals in mind. 

I'd say try different things, and see what you and Happy enjoy the most.


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> You have a little bit of everything in there - West German Show lines, well-bred American show lines, and BYB pet dogs.
> 
> Very difficult to predict anything from such a mix, where the breedings were most likely done just because certain dogs were available for breeding, as opposed to being the result of a long-term breeding program with specific goals in mind.
> 
> I'd say try different things, and see what you and Happy enjoy the most.



These aren't Happys lines, they're my new male puppy I'll be picking up next week, thanks for your opinion! I guess once I get him and can see his personality ill know what to lead towards. I want to title him in something. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Just go and do things. Do what interests YOU and hopefully your dog will do it as well. Your biggest hurdle will be how dedicated you are to the sport you pick and not your dog. It's a shepherd, it will probably do whatever you ask it to do.

That all being said...you might not be able to do IPO due to the dog not being capable, but the other sports, there's really very little reason why the dog can't title in rally-o, obedience, or even rally. You might not be the best dog out there, but you can still title.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

HappysMom said:


> These aren't Happys lines, they're my new male puppy I'll be picking up next week, thanks for your opinion! I guess once I get him and can see his personality ill know what to lead towards. I want to title him in something.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well congrats on the new puppy then.  Just go out and get involved in different activities and have fun with him. You will find something that he shines at, so good luck!


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Just go and do things. Do what interests YOU and hopefully your dog will do it as well. Your biggest hurdle will be how dedicated you are to the sport you pick and not your dog. It's a shepherd, it will probably do whatever you ask it to do.
> 
> That all being said...you might not be able to do IPO due to the dog not being capable, but the other sports, there's really very little reason why the dog can't title in rally-o, obedience, or even rally. You might not be the best dog out there, but you can still title.



I've really been interested in Schutzund but I don't know if my dog will be the dog for that. I've been in contact with a few clubs in Georgia that have invited me to come see what it's all about. I've grown up showing whippets, Chinese sharpeis, border collies and Irish setters as well as junior showmanship but I want to do something different with my shepherds. Thank you for the input!


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## Gib_laut (Jul 25, 2014)

I would keep looking if your goal was Schutzhund.


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## Pioneer53 (May 5, 2006)

Here you go:

Line-breeding for the progency of Pierson's Blue and Luna Marie Glenn


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

Pioneer53 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Line-breeding for the progency of Pierson's Blue and Luna Marie Glenn



Thank you!!


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## Pioneer53 (May 5, 2006)

You're welcome.  All the information on the PDB site is "volunteered." Most of it is correct, but not always. You might want to ask to see copies of AKC certified pedigrees of the sire and dam.

You can also purchase research copies directly from the AKC yourself for the sire and dam of any litter you are interested in, if you prefer to do it that way. They will not show any of the Schh degrees though.
https://www.akc.org/reg/pedigrees.cfm Easy to set up an account with the AKC, the pedigrees are not very expensive and you already have the sire and dam's reg. numbers. FYI.

Good luck with your new pup!


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

Pioneer53 said:


> You're welcome.  All the information on the PDB site is "volunteered." Most of it is correct, but not always. You might want to ask to see copies of AKC certified pedigrees of the sire and dam.
> 
> You can also purchase research copies directly from the AKC yourself for the sire and dam of any litter you are interested in, if you prefer to do it that way. They will not show any of the Schh degrees though.
> https://www.akc.org/reg/pedigrees.cfm Easy to set up an account with the AKC, the pedigrees are not very expensive and you already have the sire and dam's reg. numbers. FYI.
> ...




Thank you so much! I think I'll go that route! 



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## Pioneer53 (May 5, 2006)

Should probably warn you that tracing pedigrees becomes highly addictive, very quickly! 

For a good number of the European and the US bred West Germany working and showline dogs, you can browse around and cross reference at WinSiS-CAT German Shepherd Dog Information System on schaeferhunden.dk They will have most of the SchH titles and breed surveys, etc. there. There are also some of the much older AKC and UK dogs there as well, but not as many as on the PDB. The search function is a little tricky, % works well as the wildcard if you do not know von, vom, etc. It also jams up on the German punctuation marks, at least on Firefox and Opera.

For American showlines, you can browse at https://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/adogs/index.html

Have fun!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

You should be able to have some fun with AKC obedience.....tracking and CD to Utility degree. The dam line of your pedigree going through Amber lines is not known for strength of character, neither is Lasso v Nuen Berg. But you have other dogs in pedigree known for solid character. You should have a great dog for family and obedience, rally, but I think sports requiring strong nerve may be challenge. Good Luck!


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

cliffson1 said:


> You should be able to have some fun with AKC obedience.....tracking and CD to Utility degree. The dam line of your pedigree going through Amber lines is not known for strength of character, neither is Lasso v Nuen Berg. But you have other dogs in pedigree known for solid character. You should have a great dog for family and obedience, rally, but I think sports requiring strong nerve may be challenge. Good Luck!



Thanks for your input! Do you think if I was to title him in show it would ruin him as another sporting dog? 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

HappysMom said:


> Thanks for your input! Do you think if I was to title him in show it would ruin him as another sporting dog?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


What do you mean?

Like if you were to do conformation shows?

It's highly unlikely with that mix of lines you'd be very successful in conformation with him. Conformation is ALL about the genetics and how the dog looks, with the other sports, as a handler/trainer you have some effect on the outcome.


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

martemchik said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Like if you were to do conformation shows?
> 
> It's highly unlikely with that mix of lines you'd be very successful in conformation with him. Conformation is ALL about the genetics and how the dog looks, with the other sports, as a handler/trainer you have some effect on the outcome.



Yes, the breeder suggested conformation but I guess that depends on how he develops? Thank you for your input I guess I just won't really know for sure until I get him and know his personality. 


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Personality doesn't really matter in the show ring...and none of the parents look to be successful in the show ring so I have no idea why the breeder would recommend that.

If you do try it, all it would do is limit the time you'll be able to spend training for an obedience/IPO type venue. The show ring is a lot of time, most shows are on weekends, most training sessions are on weekends...so it just doesn't really line up time wise.

It's really all about how your dog conforms to the standard looks wise...and that is something that as a beginner you'll have a hard time figuring out. Truthfully, that's the one venue I don't think your dog would stand any chance in.


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Personality doesn't really matter in the show ring...and none of the parents look to be successful in the show ring so I have no idea why the breeder would recommend that.
> 
> If you do try it, all it would do is limit the time you'll be able to spend training for an obedience/IPO type venue. The show ring is a lot of time, most shows are on weekends, most training sessions are on weekends...so it just doesn't really line up time wise.
> 
> It's really all about how your dog conforms to the standard looks wise...and that is something that as a beginner you'll have a hard time figuring out. Truthfully, that's the one venue I don't think your dog would stand any chance in.



I agree with you in that aspect because I have no idea what the standard is. I've grown up showing whippets, border collies and setters. Thanks for you advice I really do appreciate it! He'll be 8 weeks next week and I'll get to bring him home! I'll keep this updated the next few months and see what you think whenever he's grown. When do you think is a good age to start training for agility and obedience? A year? 



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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Obedience? 8 weeks.

Agility...most people will tell you not to jump the dog before he's 1.


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Obedience? 8 weeks.
> 
> Agility...most people will tell you not to jump the dog before he's 1.



That's what I've heard as well! Thank you for everything you really have been helpful! 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the dog "may" be showable -- depends on the conformation of the pup you select . Ancestors seem to look to be solid balanced dogs in conformation .

But , to what point? Showing can be a fun sociable activity, but not without expense . Once , "if" , you achieve that title champion , because that is the purpose and reward for showing , to what end? Vanity. The pedigree isn't going to have a path beaten to your door for breeding . That is where pedigree becomes important .

Choose something that is dynamic, obedience, tracking, agility, fly-ball , what ever suits the dog's and your own idea of fun. One of the fall-out benefits will be a good bond ! You can't buy that. You will meet new people. Get out for exercise . In the end there will be many memorable moments and your skills will have been enhanced. 

would love to see the pup when you get him/her.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Although I wouldn't really jump a baby puppy, yu can ay the poles in the ground between the uprights. It teaches them to go over the bar and between the uprights. he can also learn tunnels and the other obstacles at a lower height until he is grown.


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

carmspack said:


> the dog "may" be showable -- depends on the conformation of the pup you select . Ancestors seem to look to be solid balanced dogs in conformation .
> 
> But , to what point? Showing can be a fun sociable activity, but not without expense . Once , "if" , you achieve that title champion , because that is the purpose and reward for showing , to what end? Vanity. The pedigree isn't going to have a path beaten to your door for breeding . That is where pedigree becomes important .
> 
> ...



Thank you for the input! I do want to do something other than conformation. That's what I've done my whole life with other breeds for different kennels and myself. I'm excited to try new things and I appreciate all of the input you've given me. I actually have another thread about my new puppy with pictures. It's a he, I have a bunch of ideas for his name but I'm leaning towards "Lux" here are a few pictures of the day I went to pick my pick of the litter. I had first pick out of the males and there ended up only being two. Here he is, the last picture is his mom, she's gorgeous. 

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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I have to say I like the look of the pup . Nice bone ! Beautiful expression, very feminine . Doesn't look crazy. Very settled and confident energy . 
Good luck . I'd love to follow this one , see how she grows and brings enjoyment to you . 

Check out some other threads on vaccinations, feeding, socialization. 

mom dog looks good too !


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol...the male puppy looks very feminine.

OP, if you're interested in showing, the breeder should be setting you up with the best puppy to take to shows. If the breeder shows the dogs, then she should be able to pick out the best show prospect that will give you the best chance to win. Really shouldn't be letting you pick the puppy in that case.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ahhhh Carmen??? The pup is a male......

He's a German Shepherd. He should be more intelligent and biddable than other breeds you have had. As others have said, he is of mixed "type" - Euro and American Showlines mostly.....this breeding, in my books, is for companion pups whose owners want to do fun obedience or rally training....the drives are not in the genetics for IPO sport or anything at a more competitive level - titles sure..but active competition for the sake of competition - probably not.

As far as the confirmation ring - not with specialty shows or hard core breed judges...but in all breed with judges who are not GSD specialists, you might do well enough to point and with enough shows, finish...I have ***heard*** there is movement away from the extreme...so go for that...

He is cute, the white will not be as obvious as he grows either....a little white is within standard.

Lee


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Lol...the male puppy looks very feminine.
> 
> OP, if you're interested in showing, the breeder should be setting you up with the best puppy to take to shows. If the breeder shows the dogs, then she should be able to pick out the best show prospect that will give you the best chance to win. Really shouldn't be letting you pick the puppy in that case.



She doesn't show, she does search and rescue but his lines apparently had show in them so she said it could be an option is all. He's actually the feistiest one. He was just tired by the time he fell asleep in my lap. This was the other male, he on the other hand was very feminine and only wanted to cuddle.









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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> ahhhh Carmen??? The pup is a male......
> 
> He's a German Shepherd. He should be more intelligent and biddable than other breeds you have had. As others have said, he is of mixed "type" - Euro and American Showlines mostly.....this breeding, in my books, is for companion pups whose owners want to do fun obedience or rally training....the drives are not in the genetics for IPO sport or anything at a more competitive level - titles sure..but active competition for the sake of competition - probably not.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that! I've seen pictures of both of his parents as pups and they both had a little white but now have none. I currently have a sable female. I doubt his coat and color will change as much as hers did? Or correct me if I'm wrong. I'm excited to get into new things and watch him grow up. 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so I see , but it has the wisdom and composure of a female. 
The dog is very centered. 
Yes -- for companion !


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

HappysMom said:


> Thanks for that! I've seen pictures of both of his parents as pups and they both had a little white but now have none. I currently have a sable female. I doubt his coat and color will change as much as hers did? Or correct me if I'm wrong. I'm excited to get into new things and watch him grow up.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


He is black and tan...the black will turn to tan until he has a saddle more than likely - look at the dogs in his pedigree, his parents, he will mature into that color pattern.

Lee


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> He is black and tan...the black will turn to tan until he has a saddle more than likely - look at the dogs in his pedigree, his parents, he will mature into that color pattern.
> 
> Lee



I was told he's a red and black. I just picked him up today, I guess we will see how his colors turn over time!









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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Red is a marketing term - genetically tan and red are the same....some dogs do have a deeper richer pigment - and many are chemically enhanced to get that rich color you see in so many photos...

Lee


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> Red is a marketing term - genetically tan and red are the same....some dogs do have a deeper richer pigment - and many are chemically enhanced to get that rich color you see in so many photos...
> 
> Lee


Oh gotcha! Well thanks! I love learning new things each day! Any tips on weight Gain for a puppy? 



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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

carmspack said:


> I have to say I like the look of the pup . Nice bone ! Beautiful expression, very feminine . Doesn't look crazy. Very settled and confident energy .
> Good luck . I'd love to follow this one , see how she grows and brings enjoyment to you .
> 
> Check out some other threads on vaccinations, feeding, socialization.
> ...



A few recent pictures of Lux! I'm starting to see a lot if resemblance with his Mother!


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Lux is a beautiful little guy! I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with him in whatever venue you decide to try.  Looking forward to watching him grow up.


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

Lux pictures! Also a few of his littermates as well!
























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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

HappysMom said:


> Oh gotcha! Well thanks! I love learning new things each day! Any tips on weight Gain for a puppy?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Make sure he is parasite free.....

I like Puppy Gold for pups....k9PowerProducts is the distributor and you can buy direct online

Lee


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> Make sure he is parasite free.....
> 
> I like Puppy Gold for pups....k9PowerProducts is the distributor and you can buy direct online
> 
> Lee



He is, he beat Parvo two weeks ago and he's a solid 28 pounds now! I'm sure that was why he was underweight!


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

Four months this weekend ?


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

She's adorable :wub:


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## HappysMom (Nov 20, 2013)

carmspack said:


> Update pictures of Lux! He'll be 5 months in two days!


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