# A little help from experienced fosters?



## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

Hey folks,

I'm an experienced GSD owner, but haven't fostered or adopted lately, and I'm a bit stumped here.

Brought home/adopted/am fostering, not sure what yet, a 2 year old neutered male german shepherd. History of child aggression, possibly situational. 

Really sweet dog, didn't make a peep on the 2 hour ride home, curious about everything as we drove through town. Got along immediately with my other dog, a 10 year old neutered husky. Was non-reactive to the cats, who were scared crapless -g-

It seems he's great with me, to the point if he were sitting at my feet, he didn't like to share affection with my lads. But. I have a HUGE problem.

He hated my DH on site. Lunged, bared teeth, growled, barked. DH is, honestly, scared of him. This is not a good situation. DH loves all animals great and small. 

New foster has been banished to the back yard temporarily.

If DH comes out on the deck, looks around the corner of the house, if the dog can see DH -anywhere- it's bark bark growl bark growl bark till he goes inside. Even worse, he doesn't feel safe around the dog.

I could deal with it if he were reactive to me, because I know how to work through it and be wary but not fearful. DH is...another story. Also, the child he was aggressive with was male.

His former owners say he has a bit of food aggression around them, and there are no other animals in the house. Here, he ignored the food, the toys, the chewies. I went thru the McDonalds drive through on the way home, two females at the window, non-reactive. Bag of food on the front seat, the whole way home? couldn't care less. Didn't even sniff. So he's not going to be a treat reward driven train-ee (lovely)

Anyone else been down this road? Suggestions? HELLLLLP!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

1. I would crate/separate rather than use the yard. Put the dog in his own room, and "rotate" your husband with the dog. Make sure it's secure so they can't get together. EVER. No seeing each other either. Let the dog settle in for a bit and work with him in his obedience in positive, upbeat ways, try food - he is overwhelmed so it may take a while. NILIF too. 

2. Remember that he is in survival mode. He has not been taken care of well and is right at the age that people give up their GSDs if they haven't at the ten month mark! So not only has he not had a leader most likely (or one effective for him) he has decided that the only way to survive is to be the leader. He will react to a threat more strongly than a dog who has had a good relationship with people all along. 

3. Neuter him if he's not already. (the dog)

4. After the dog feels safe with you, that you will protect him, keep him contained or muzzled, but allow husband to toss him treats. Husband becomes a treat dispenser. If he is not behaving then he gets no treats, but if he is, treats galore. Mark it with a phrase or word. Trust is difficult. Work up to husband hand feeding supper if safe to do so. 

5. Get a behaviorist to work on all of this with you. Not a "former k9 officer" or whatever that people think are trainers but are not, someone who is good and who you have references for. 

6. Don't do any of this without consulting with someone who can see the behaviors! 

I do remember a thread about your husband. I very rarely buy into that whole "my dog could sense it" because I have dogs who bark at everyone (and see dead people too apparently!) but with #5/6 bringing around non-threatening male friends might help to see if it's specific or general. 

Good luck - not an easy age or task.

ETA - this is not the dog being referred to for that the person looking to adopt in the Philly right?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sent you a PM. Incorporate all of what Jean said to mine. 

Myamom - who is the top trainer in your area that you told me about before?


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Allan Finn


*Designing Dogs, *

Alan Finn's DesigningDogs* 
516 Sibley Ave
Old Forge, PA 18518-1846 map 
Scranton-Wilkes Barre, PA Metro Area

Phone: (570) 562-2232


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I hate to say this, but this is a potential disaster waiting to happen and it's not fair to either the dog or the husband. There are a ton of dogs out there that need homes and I would return this dog before something terrible happens and find a dog that is a better match for your home and family. The dog will find a home that fits his needs too.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't have any suggestions other than good luck,,and I to wonder if the "male" thing is situational or in general..

Hope you can work things out,,saw a pic of him, he's gorgeous


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## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

Yup Elaine, that was my first knee-jerk reaction too.

I can't return him, but I did tell the former owners that if he couldn't fit in here I would find him a good, thoroughly screened home where he would fit in, most likely through a rescue org. He had (what I still think was largely situational) child aggression issues with their son, and it was basically me or the spca. We all know what happens to owner surrender child aggression issue dogs at the spca 

This dog is -extremely- well trained. He does sit, come, down, no, leave it, shake, doesn't try to mark over the other dog, gets along great with the neutered male 10 year old dog. Has thus far just whined and acted scared around the cats, but I don't trust that for a minute! lol

Okay..back to our story...

Sure seems like classic fear aggression to me. When leashed or tied, it's woof bark growl, teeth grrrr. I put him in a separate room, had DH come to the living room with me, talk normally, move around...when not restrained, Shadow was fine. 

Tell DH it will be okay, to not tense up, to totally ignore the dog. Open gate, keeping that leash in sight every moment...dog comes to me, tail wagging, then starts investigating...sniff sniff sniff....heeeeeey, this person isn't petting me! Hmmpph! Nudges DH's hand for a pet.

Put him on the zip line out back to potty...dh walks out, growl growl growl.
Take him off zip line....fine. Three of us played fetch for an hour. No problem at all. Returned the ball to both of us to toss, no preference really.

DH just came home from walking the Husky, bark bark growl bark. I had to hold Shadow to get him in the door.

I'm not sure he can ever be totally broken of this, but I'll at least talk to a behavioralist and/or trainer. He seems to really like females...he took to me like I was his bestest old buddy. Good with other dogs, potentially good with cats. This guy has so much going for him.

He seems far more reactive when the situation is out of his control...crate, dog coop, zip line...bad. Gated into the kitchen? Fine. He is NOT foot/treat reactive. He hadn't eaten all day (because of the car, he lived 3.5 hours away from me.) And...yeah no. No dice. He didn't even blink at the flippin' McDonalds bag! Fights a crate. Won't go in willingly for a treat or a squeaky toy, wouldn't go in with a little physical coersion.

He is a really great dog with issues to be worked through, but only 1.5 years old and deserves a chance. I don't want to give up too easily, but also don't want to make a bad situation worse.

But honestly, while DH is better with the situation, he is still ill at ease, (understandably) afraid to be home without me, and I wouldn't comfortably leave them alone. That really isn't good for anyone involved. 

And thanks so much Jax and Jean, your advice was great and much appreciated. breathe breathe breathe...lol

Thoughts?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I assumed you got the dog from a rescue from the way you wrote. I would be on the phone to every rescue around to see if anyone would take him before trying to fix this myself.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Elaine said:


> I assumed you got the dog from a rescue from the way you wrote. I would be on the phone to every rescue around to see if anyone would take him before trying to fix this myself.


I'm with a GSD Rescue. We can't take dogs that have demonstrated aggression like this. Good luck finding one who will.


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## celiamarie (Feb 18, 2006)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> 3. Neuter him if he's not already. (the dog)


I just snorted my mojito out my nose.


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## AliciaMaria (May 8, 2010)

Hey!! This sounds like what Sammi went through when we first got her.. she was great with us, with our husky, everyone, on the ride home from her foster home.. but for some reason, she attached to me, and not Dave.. and when he would come in from the other room, she'd just light up and do all the things your guy is doing.. Dave tried everything.. being submissive, being dominant, being playful.. nothing worked consistently! She was afraid of him when he walked in from the other room.. BUT once she got used to him after a few minutes, she was fine..

the only thing that worked for us, and now she absolutely ADORES him, was going through training and having him be the handler. Once she learned that he was the boss, and he was the one issuing commands, she turned into putty around him. She is still attached to me, but she finally got over her fear of him, and I guess it turned into a respect thing? 

Maybe try that with your husband, have him be your foster's handler, and have him issue commands.. it worked for us, and it only took several days for things to smooth out. That was 2 almost 2 years ago.  Good luck!


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## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JeanKBBMMMAAN*  
_3. Neuter him if he's not already. (the dog)_

I just snorted my mojito out my nose. 
__________________
-Celia

That was the first real laugh I had had all day yesterday too, and it was much appreciated.

The rest of the night was uneventful. I was rudely awakened an hour earlier than necessary this morning to the feel of a kong bone being pushed into my back. Repeatedly. Mr Shadow had to potty, and he thought a game of fetch would be a spiffy idea too! Little brat...

(Before I get jumped on, no, I didn't leave a strange new dog loose in the house all night. I got up to help DH with him and get him off to work, he goes in hours before I do. Was just laying on the couch, being sluggish, seeing what Shad would do when he thought I was sleeping/not looking. Give a girl some credit!!)


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Emoore said:


> I'm with a GSD Rescue. We can't take dogs that have demonstrated aggression like this. Good luck finding one who will.


No one in their right mind would touch a dog like that, especially demonstrating aggression towards children whether situational or not.

Way too much liability.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

My rescue wouldn't touch this dog either, but there are a couple of other groups here that would. My group would allow you to post your dog yourself on our site though so you could try and place the dog yourself in a better home. As a rescue person, I see so many nice adoptable dogs being put down that, even though it sucks to put a dog down for aggression no matter how nice it is otherwise, it leaves more room for the adoptable dogs.


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## SylvieUS (Oct 15, 2009)

Update: 
Pfffffft. Male aggressive indeed! This guy continues to surprise me. DH's 21 year old son has been here for about 3 hours. Shadow 'woof'-ed at him exactly twice when he first got here. No lunging, no teeth baring, no snarling, nada. Can we go play ball now?!? Pretty please (insert big eyed pleading here)

DH's Son is about 6'1, deep voice, police officer. He also is not afraid of dogs, even aggressive ones. Wary, yes, fearful no.

I know one comparison does not a diagnosis make. But at least it was a positive interaction, and not another strike against him.

He is also a radically different dog today from yesterday. He's not suddenly a 'golden boy', and 'all problems solved', but things seem a bit more work-able today, regardless of the final outcome. He is a happy boy today. He and DH are out in the kitchen together, with it gated, and kitters just came downstairs. He will woof at the cats but hasn't tried to eat them yet, or gotten that sharky, focused 'prey, mmmmm!" look in his eyes at all. More curious. One day at a time


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

The unpredictable nature of who he may or may not react to would, IMHO, make him even less suitable for placement. Unless over the course of time (weeks, months - not hours/days) he doesn't demonstrate this behavior again - towards anyone - then I'd still be extremely wary of placing him with someone you do not know and trust extremely well.

I'd actually prefer a dog react in a predictable nature, even if that nature is not what we are desiring. At least that gives you a little something to work with, and you know what needs work and what may push their buttons. If the dog picks and chooses for seemingly no apparant reason (that you can see) then I wouldn't personally take that as good news. It makes it much harder to judge when the dog may, or may not, react, and thus more difficult to work through the behavior. There is no reason in the world dogs like this can't be managed, trained/worked with, socialized - in the proper home. However, the question arises from a rescue standpoint of how much liability the rescue is willing to risk placing a dog that behaves like this.

JMHO


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