# TriFlexis Question??



## jcmann01 (Jul 5, 2013)

My dogs have been attacked by fleas lately and they are rampid! I have scrubbed and bathed them with Adams Flea and Tick Shampoo, which kills them on contact, but the dam fleas are back on them the next day? Weirdly enough, the bottle says it kills them up to 28 days after shampooing? I scrub them down from the top of their heads to their feet and leave it on about 20 mins. However, they just keep coming back and the dogs are constantly chewing on themselves and it is driving them crazy? Probably there are fleas in their bedding and outside too. However, this is becoming exhausting and I feel like I am trying to catch the wind here?

Okay, plan B. Friends and clients are telling me to try TriFlexis. However, after reading various articles online, I see their is some past controversy over it. On Dr Foster and Smiths website, it says not to administer this to herding breeds and GSDs are considered a herding breed too? I have read other articles on this forum stating that some members thought it was alright for their dogs to take and have not had problems if they administer 1/2 a pill am and pm for proper ingestion. 

What really concerns me is that those complaining about it, say they noticed their dogs getting really spaced out and acting odd ie staring at the ceiling endlessly or acting confused after a couple of months? Well, I need for Mariah to be an alert GSD. Has anyone had these ill-effects with their GSDs using TriFlexis after using it a couple of months?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I have used Comfortis ... 2 of the dogs did okay on it, one had a seizure!!!

I used Panoramis which is the Australian name for Trifexis on the two who can take Comfortis, used Heartgard on the guy who had the seizure.

Good luck with the fleas ... I've had my first flea problem I've had in many years ... took forever to eradicate them and I'm still not 100% sure I've won the fight ... noticed they scratched some yesterday. I'm using Comfortis (or in lieu of that, the Panoramis earlier this year), Frontline, had the yard sprayed once and have sprayed the house several times. 

I haven't used a flea shampoo ... but it could be you're having a lot of babies hatching and the shampoo is working?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

A safer and natural way is to use *FOOD *grade Diatomeceous Earth.
Messy (put on the dusty powder outside of the house) but effective. Rub into dogs coat all over body and belly. This powder acts like glass (to the fleas only) and kills them by cutting into their body shells. Can be put on your rugs, flooring and the dogs' beds if your house has become infested. Vacuum in a day or two. Also, in highly infested areas, fill a cake baking type pan half full of water and add dish soap, set on floor and place a lamp/light above it. Fleas will jump into the water and die from the soap.
Hope this can help your babies!


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## KarmaTheGSD (Jun 26, 2013)

My gsd karma has been on trifexis is her whole life and has never had a problem. Also there is a pill called capstar which kills the fleas on them for 24 hours it works great as well at least so you don't have to continually give him a bath. Also my puppy is just over 5 months. You can also try front line topical spray, it's in a spray bottle and you can spray all over their skin I use both as recommended by my vet and breeder. 


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

We use Trifexis.

Why do they say not to use it on herding dogs?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

KarmaTheGSD said:


> *My gsd karma has been on trifexis is her whole life and has never had a problem*. Also there is a pill called capstar which kills the fleas on them for 24 hours it works great as well at least so you don't have to continually give him a bath. *Also my puppy is just over 5 months.* You can also try front line topical spray, it's in a spray bottle and you can spray all over their skin I use both as recommended by my vet and breeder.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


You haven't even begun to see the problems at 5 months.

Using pesticide sprays on your dog? If you can't use it on yourself, you shouldn't use it on your pet.


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## jcmann01 (Jul 5, 2013)

Buggibub said:


> We use Trifexis.
> 
> Why do they say not to use it on herding dogs?


Here is the link:

Trifexis

Look under "More Information": There is more, but this is what caught my eye?

Not for use in Collies or other herding breeds over the recommended heartworm prevention dose unless under the strict supervision of a veterinarian. If your dog is one of these breeds and received a higher dose, observe your pet for at least 8 hours after giving the medication for weakness, staggering, fever, dilated pupils, trembling, or pressing the head against a wall. Contact your veterinarian immediately if you see these signs.
Do not use in puppies less than 8 weeks of age or less than 5 pounds.
Use with caution in breeding females. The safe use of milbemycin oxime plus spinosad in breeding males has not been evaluated.

Now, of course, I would only give my dogs the recommended dosage, but I have heard some stories about TriFlexis
that concerned me enough to ask questions. I was hoping a Vet on this forum would be able to better address these medical concerns?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Buggibub said:


> We use Trifexis.
> 
> *Why do they say not to use it on herding dogs*?


MDR1 mutation. Up to 75% in collie breeds, and 10% in Shepherds.

-glycoprotein, encoded by the _multidrug resistance_ gene _MDR1_, is an ATP-driven drug efflux pump which is highly expressed at the blood-brain barrier of vertebrates. Drug efflux of macrocyclic lactones by P-glycoprotein is highly relevant for the therapeutic safety of macrocyclic lactones, as thereby GABA-gated chloride channels, which are confined to the central nervous system in vertebrates, are protected from high drug concentrations that otherwise would induce neurological toxicity. A 4-bp deletion mutation exists in the _MDR1_ gene of many dog breeds such as the Collie and the Australian Shepherd, which results in the expression of a non-functional P-glycoprotein and is associated with multiple drug sensitivity. *Accordingly, dogs with homozygous MDR1 mutation are in general prone to neurotoxicity by macrocyclic lactones due to their increased brain penetration*

There are many drugs that an MDR1 dog can be sensitive, certain anesthetics, Ivermectins (anything "mectins")...Imodium, even pepto bismol


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## jcmann01 (Jul 5, 2013)

*Interesting-Thx!*



GatorBytes said:


> MDR1 mutation. Up to 75% in collie breeds, and 10% in Shepherds.
> 
> -glycoprotein, encoded by the _multidrug resistance_ gene _MDR1_, is an ATP-driven drug efflux pump which is highly expressed at the blood-brain barrier of vertebrates. Drug efflux of macrocyclic lactones by P-glycoprotein is highly relevant for the therapeutic safety of macrocyclic lactones, as thereby GABA-gated chloride channels, which are confined to the central nervous system in vertebrates, are protected from high drug concentrations that otherwise would induce neurological toxicity. A 4-bp deletion mutation exists in the _MDR1_ gene of many dog breeds such as the Collie and the Australian Shepherd, which results in the expression of a non-functional P-glycoprotein and is associated with multiple drug sensitivity. *Accordingly, dogs with homozygous MDR1 mutation are in general prone to neurotoxicity by macrocyclic lactones due to their increased brain penetration*
> 
> There are many drugs that an MDR1 dog can be sensitive, certain anesthetics, Ivermectins (anything "mectins")...Imodium, even pepto bismol


So, in everyday English, GSDs are 10% at risk of being an MDR1 dog, which will cause these side effects if they take TriFlexis, right?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

jcmann01 said:


> So, in everyday English, GSDs are 10% at risk of being an MDR1 dog, which will cause these side effects if they take TriFlexis, right?


 
Right.


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## jcmann01 (Jul 5, 2013)

What is the scoop on CapStar for GSDs?


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

Well I will say this:
-The Bubs was on Sentinel for 2 years and got whip/hook TWICE while on it while we lived in Indiana.
-The Bubs has been on Trifexis for two years and has NOT gotten whip/hook since being on it.
-My vet who recommended the switch two years ago when we moved to Texas is a TAMU grad and extremely sharp. I trust him.

I don't know if whip/hook is more prominent up north, but like I said, he got sick from Sentinel, and has been perfetly fine on Trifexis.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Max is on Trifexis due to heartguard not killing off the wip worm, the other 2 are on heartguard, and no wip worm, not sure if Max having EPI has anything to do with this


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

GatorBytes said:


> Right.


No, not right. They are at risk if high enough doses are taken, not the minimal dose that is in trifexis and other heartworm prevention.

I have used this product in hundreds of herding breed dogs. The dogs that seem to have a problem with it are Weimaraners for whatever reason, not sure about that one. 

And there's no "L" it's just Trifexis.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Buggibub said:


> Well I will say this:
> -The Bubs was on Sentinel for 2 years and got whip/hook TWICE while on it while we lived in Indiana.
> -The Bubs has been on Trifexis for two years and has NOT gotten whip/hook since being on it.
> -My vet who recommended the switch two years ago when we moved to Texas is a TAMU grad and extremely sharp. I trust him.
> ...


Both products have the same ingredient that deworms them


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

jcmann01 said:


> What is the scoop on CapStar for GSDs?


There's no "scoop" you can use it in any breed. But it only lasts 24 hours then the dog can get reinfested from the environment again.


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> Both products have the same ingredient that deworms them


Since I am a scientist, I had to include the "not sure if whip/hook is more prevalent up north..." line


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## jcmann01 (Jul 5, 2013)

Buggibub said:


> Well I will say this:
> -The Bubs was on Sentinel for 2 years and got whip/hook TWICE while on it while we lived in Indiana.
> -The Bubs has been on Trifexis for two years and has NOT gotten whip/hook since being on it.
> -My vet who recommended the switch two years ago when we moved to Texas is a TAMU grad and extremely sharp. I trust him.
> ...


So, even though the Bubs is at 10% risk, because he is GSD, you still believe in TriFexis enough to give it to him and he is doing okay with it? Interesting? So, the vet just said, try TriFexis and to let him know if Bubs shows any side effects?


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

jcmann01 said:


> So, even though the Bubs is at 10% risk, because he is GSD, you still believe in TriFlexis enough to give it to him and he is doing okay with it? Interesting? So, the vet just said, try TriFlexis and to let him know if Bubs shows any side effects?


My vet recommended "dosing down" to the Trifexis pill that is intended for dogs up to 59 lbs. My vet also recommended splitting the pill in half and giving him half of the pill in the morning, and the second half 8 hours later. He does fine with it.


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## jcmann01 (Jul 5, 2013)

*Wonderful! With All This Brain Power Present*

What are your top recommendations for Flea & Tick Control?


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

Neem oil for ticks. Trifexis for fleas.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

jcmann01 said:


> What are your top recommendations for Flea & Tick Control?


Cedar oil for both, and mosquito's (no bites = no heartworm)

Even as an essential oil, cedar is considered one of the most effective AND approved by the EPA (environmental protection agency) AND safe.

Neem has cautions although is considered mostly safe.

Search Trifexis facebook - there is a page (not from the manufacturer) with hundreds of people laying claim to Trifexis causing adverse reactions and death.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

jcmann01 said:


> So, even though the Bubs is at 10% risk, because he is GSD, you still believe in TriFexis enough to give it to him and he is doing okay with it? Interesting? So, the vet just said, try TriFexis and to let him know if Bubs shows any side effects?


ALL of the heartworm meds can cause problems in mdr1 dogs if used above the dose for heartworm.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Cullen has only been on Trifexis since October 2012, but does great. I am unsure that we will keep him on it, just depends on what the vet suggest, as this year, I have noticed worse ticks, and want a regimen safe for everything


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

Trifexis has nothing to do with ticks


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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

Sorry misread your post. I'm not aware of any that truly cover flea tick worm


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Lol, it's ok. Yea, I know different people use different combinations. I love Trifexis because Cullen doesn't pick fleas up even when the others do, but I hate doubling up, so don't like using a flea and tick on top of the Trifexis. 

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## Buggibub (Jul 1, 2010)

Same here. That's why we use neem but now I may try cedar. 


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Buggibub said:


> Sorry misread your post. I'm not aware of any that truly cover flea tick worm
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Vectra 3d is supposedly very effective against fleas, ticks and mosquitoes (as well as lice and some mites). It's not a HW preventative, or a dewormer. I don't use it, but someone in my training group does and is happy. It seems to be pretty good against ticks, from what I've heard. It's a topical product that must be purchased through a vet.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

jcmann01 said:


> What is the scoop on CapStar for GSDs?


It's pretty expensive (about $5/dose), for just a day of protection. Capstar does seem to work, though. 

I keep it around to use it on some foster dogs coming to me fresh from the shelter -- dose them at the shelter, and the fleas are dead by the time they get home. That gives us a window to get them bathed, dry them off, and apply a longer-lasting product without bringing fleas into the house.


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