# fake breeding



## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

I am wondering this because of the post I read here

can a breeder fake it and say one dog is the father and really its another

how would AKC know 

I mean lets say a female got pregnant with a mutt ot a bad GS and the to make them sell better they led and said that the father was a better dog?

I am asking because when I got mine no reciept no guarentees etc etc

and I think Jack has a Collie Face LOL











Am just curious if this could ever happen


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Jack looks totally pure. Unfortunately, some GSDs, especially in American lines, have faces like you say: "collie-like." Many of them have skinny heads and long muzzles. Beefier heads are more common in working lines and German showlines with the latter sometimes having heads so beefy they'd make a mastiff jealous (not exactly correct, either). I don't see anything in Jack except GSD x GSD.







His head may not be blocky, but it's just fine.









And hey, anything is possible when it comes to registration. I'm sure what you suggest has happened in the past and it will again.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

ya'know your puppy is incredibly cute. Would you PLEASE stop trying to find fault with him?


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## VectorSketcher (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree with DianaM your little Jack looks pure to me as well, his face looks like my little girl's face she had an american line GSD mom, and her dad was a west German GSD, she inherited her moms face but her dad's size. I have a west german GSD at home as well, and his head is very blocky and square, he just looks like someone chiseled him out of stone sometimes, he is a great looking boy, but I love my little girl's face as well. I call her little face, she is very feminine (sp?) to me, it is just so small and different looking from my older GSD's face!


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Your pup is really a nice looking pup... no problem with the head. When he gets to be about 2 years, you will probably see that it has become more masculine.
And yes, Am Line dogs are not known for their big, blocky heads. But there are plenty of working lines that have skinny collie-like muzzles. It is often referred to as an "Egon head" and most recently seen in the progeny of Crok Erlenbusch. Does not affect their ability at all


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

What you're suggesting is possible. It can be done and probably is done. 

That said, your pup looks to be purebred.


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

It has been done, even with imported pregnant bitches from Europe. 

However there is no way of knowing unless a DNA test is done. The AKC does not keep DNA records of registered pedigrees - at least not when I last read about this issue - so it is impossible to trek your puppy's genetic tree. 

From my amateur opinion, your puppy looks PB to me and very adorable. It is also important to request information about warranty, contract, and other pertinent papers when looking to purchase a live animal so you can lessen the chances of doubt and other inconveniences. 

~ Rei


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Count BrunoI am wondering this because of the post I read here
> 
> can a breeder fake it and say one dog is the father and really its another
> 
> ...


AKC would know by you spending the money and requesting a DNA test... however you'd need the fathers DNA as well and someone who is "faking it" likely won't provide the sample. If to their knowledge the mom did breed with the male they are suggesting and that proved to be incorrect - w/o any form of guarantee or contract there is probably little to none that could be done and still... up to the (shady) breeder.

That said... and as the others have said... Jack appears to be from American lines - which in general have long, narrow faces.

Compare the types here. the 5th dog down would be what you have...


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: middleofnowhereya'know your puppy is incredibly cute. Would you PLEASE stop trying to find fault with him?


yeah, Jack is a doll. American bred or not, and look at those ears. He's adorable. He's just not your old dog, hey, you might want to hear it now but he might be better than your old dog


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

anyway
thanks for you input
I was curious so did a little research
the mother dn11860705 illa eleka von two jaws I think is from american show lines
but the father dl85516002 crom von haus baysden has a lot sz before the numbers in his geneology even as close as his grandparents his parents have germany is () after the numbers

I am also wondering why DL and Dn letters is the DL a lesser breed quality

Since I joined this site you guys have stimulated me to know more
which looking back should have done before I bought LOL


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

It's OK. The most important thing is not afraid of learning and gathering new information to better ourselves. I think it is a great step for little Jack to have a conscientious caregiver like you.

I knew nothing about parrots when I acquired my first bird, and if I had known what I learned after he came home, I would have be a lot more careful. But it didn't lessen my love for him any, and I never regretted bringing him home. 

Sorry I am no help with the numbers and letters. I too am curious how it all works.


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

I have an african Grey OMG he is so MOUTHY LOL HAHAHAH

Calls Jack tells him to sit be quiet etc
has phone conversations and still is calling Ernie LOL
Sing songs and sounds just like me LOL

I LOVE HIM HAHAHH


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Sorry to veer off topic, but oh I LOVE Greys!!!







Poor Jack, being ordered around by a 400 gm bird. *LOL* It's prob in your voice too. Watch, soon he will start giving the command to go outside and driving Jack nuts. Hahahaha

I have a Citron cockatoo. My first bird was a Greencheek conure, and he passed away suddenly after a short, brave battle with a macro-bacterial infection (per necropsy). He came from a *wince* horrible pet store.


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

opmg he does he says Jack wanna go pee
Jack want your supper
IT IS SO HILARIOUS


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## The Stig (Oct 11, 2007)

Oh .. that is just wrong! *HAHAHAHA* We know who really is BOSS in your household!


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## mark caton (Oct 7, 2013)

Keegan62 said:


> anyway
> thanks for you input
> I was curious so did a little research
> the mother dn11860705 illa eleka von two jaws I think is from american show lines
> ...


Crom was from germany,(I aqiired this dog) elke her call name, or eleka is forth generation from Ch. Covy-Tucker Hill's Manhattan OFA H/E ROM. I own elke and von two jaws kennel


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

mark caton said:


> Crom was from germany,(I aqiired this dog) elke her call name, or eleka is forth generation from Ch. Covy-Tucker Hill's Manhattan OFA H/E ROM. I own elke and von two jaws kennel



Mark, welcome to the board. Can you verify for the OP whether a breeding if these 2 dogs took place. Can't be sure, but sounds like you owned them both at some point. 

I am sure the OP would be interested in hearing from you in regards to this breeding. If it did take place. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If Crom was imported from Germany, than the AKC has his DNA on file. If you do a DNA sample with your puppy, I think you can verify that the sire is the sire. 

But your dog looks exactly like a dog with sire or dam, being American showlines, and the other being German. He's a good looking dog. Of course he doesn't look like an adult shepherd yet. 

That being said, it is very possible that a litter have two sires. If the breeder isn't diligent, a rangey, mangy border collie mix can go over or under or through a fence to get to the bred bitch, and he can be the sire of some of the puppies in the litter.

Of course the same is true of another shepherd. 

On the other hand, your dog looks the part. I don't see any reason to question it.

If a breeder registers a litter fraudulently, they can get in trouble with the AKC. The pups will have their registration revoked, and it can be pretty ugly. 

Generally DNA is not required on dog or bitch, unless they are imported, and want registration in the AKC, from another reputable registry like the SV. Or, if a dog has more than three litters per year or 7 total. I think that is only a requirement for dogs though and not bitches. 

Of course, paternity questions are more understandable that questions about who the dam is.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

This original post was from 2008...so the OP may not be paying any attention any more...


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