# Hips/Elbows Checked in Parents?



## BrookeJanine (Dec 27, 2016)

Hello all! I am new here and have a quick question. When selecting your puupy for breeding do you make sure its parents have had their hips/elbows checked? We are researching breeders and have found one where the puppy's father has had his hips checked but not the mother. Would that be a deal breaker for you?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Yes, it would be a deal breaker.

Quote: "When selecting your puupy for breeding" 
Are you purchasing a puppy to breed when older?

Moms


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Yes, it would be (and has been) a deal breaker for me. It's not easy to turn down a puppy when your heart wants one now, but sometimes it's necessary. 

Are you looking for a future breeding dog or a pet? If you want to breed, hip/elbow health is even more important, and you'd have a host of other things to think about in addition to that. Good luck in your search. I hope you find what you're looking for!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Deal breaker. If they did not check hips and elbows what else did they not check?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes. Deal breaker. I don't get bent over DM testing. I don't think it's all that accurate yet and it's misdiagnosed in many cases.

I want to see them working the dogs in some capacity too. IPO or other bitework sports, SAR, PD, higher level AKC (lower level obedience or rally don't cut it for me) such as agility, higher level obedience, tracking. Show me that you have trialed and tested your dogs and they have sound temperaments.


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## BrookeJanine (Dec 27, 2016)

Thank you, all! I appreciate your advice and we have decided to turn down this puppy. We are looking for a female for possible future breeding so we want to go about this the right way.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> I want to see them working the dogs in some capacity too. IPO or other bitework sports, SAR, PD, higher level AKC (lower level obedience or rally don't cut it for me) such as agility, higher level obedience, tracking. Show me that you have trialed and tested your dogs and they have sound temperaments.


^^^YES^^^

Breeding German Shepherds is a HUGE responsibility to our breed.
Do you have a qualified mentor to teach you about breeding, how to read a pedigree, how to match a sire and a dam appropriately and many other things that go along with it?

The following is information about breeding:

Should I Breed My Dog Flow Chart:
*Own Responsibly: Should You Breed Your Dog?-- A Flowchart *

THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED *
THE FACTS:* It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully. 


*QUALITY:* SV registration is Not an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath! 


*COST:* German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability. 
*
SALES:* First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter. 


*JOY OF BIRTH:* If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelping may be at 3 AM, or at the vets on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course, there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed. 
*
TIME:* Veteran German Shepherd breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight. 

*HUMANE RESPONSIBILITIES:*It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs “with papers. “ The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? *Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it? *Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? CONCLUSIONS: Because of these facts, German Shepherd dog breeding is best left to the PROFESSIONAL BREEDER! http://germanshepherd.co.in/german-shepherd-breeders 



There are many qualified people here to assist you finding a puppy! A little info will help!


*What "Type" of GSD are you looking for? Working Line, Show Line, etc. (Read "Types of German Shepherds" on the Wildhaus and German Shepherd Guide Sites)


*What activities or sports do you plan on doing with him/her.

*What type of lifestyle do you have that will include the dog?

*Tell a little about yourself/your family!


*What is your price range? (usual is $1,600 to $3,000)


*What state are you in and how far are you willing to travel (hours)?


*Are you willing to have a dog shipped?

Here are some good reading materials!
(German Shepherd and Schutzhund Articles, by Wildhaus Kennels ) 


Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder

German Shepherd Guide - Home


Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs 

Good luck in your search!
Moms


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Moms- I don't know where you got that but there is so much that is wrong in there.

SV is not in indication of quality? It most certainly is an indication, far better than AKC. Dogs are not bred unless they have hips, elbows, conformation rating and titles. Can not even get papers to breed.

First time breeders have no reputation? While they might not be well known, I know many first time breeders who bred stellar dogs. Alexis for one. Katie with Jaya. Beth and Laurie. All had incredible litters. 

I wouldn't use that blurb again to prove your point. Some good stuff in there but also a whole lot of crap opinions.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Moms- I don't know where you got that but there is so much that is wrong in there.
> 
> SV is not in indication of quality? It most certainly is an indication, far better than AKC. Dogs are not bred unless they have hips, elbows, conformation rating and titles. Can not even get papers to breed.
> 
> ...


*I agree with you about 1st time breeders that KNOW what they are doing like the names you listed. *I would definitely considers these breeders for a puppy myself.

I meant no disrespect......these people are to be commended for the time and work they put into their dogs.

The sites I quoted are not perfect but they may give an NON-Experienced person some cause to pause and think about this type of venture and what goes into it, as the OP was asking* if *x-rays were necessary. 

Moms


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

:shrug: You can post whatever you want. But, IMO, there are to many poor opinions in there to give that blurb credence. It's giving new people bad information when there are many articles out there that give the right information.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> :shrug: You can post whatever you want. But, IMO, there are to many poor opinions in there to give that blurb credence. It's giving new people bad information when there are many articles out there that give the right information.


Thanks Jax! Duly noted! 

Can you PM me some other appropriate articles/sites to use in these situations?

Moms


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Hips, elbows, and proof of temperament and working ability by an unbiased third party, preferably in multiple venues or on multiple different occasions is what I personally aim for. Like Michelle said, lower level OB and Rally don't qualify as a test of the dogs character, IMO. 

As far as sales go, as a first time breeder myself, all but one puppy in each of my first and second litters went to working homes of various disciplines. When you have a dog worthy of being bred that is being "campaigned" through the venues in which they are shown, people will come to you.

I don't think as many people should be turned away or scared of breeding as it is discussed here. If you are prepared to put the proper time, work and money into it, and are prepared to take responsibility for the puppies that are produced, I personally don't see the issue.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> Hips, elbows, and proof of temperament and working ability by an unbiased third party, preferably in multiple venues or on multiple different occasions is what I personally aim for. Like Michelle said, lower level OB and Rally don't qualify as a test of the dogs character, IMO.
> 
> As far as sales go, as a first time breeder myself, all but one puppy in each of my first and second litters went to working homes of various disciplines. When you have a dog worthy of being bred that is being "campaigned" through the venues in which they are shown, people will come to you.


We watched you work your dog at a trial.
She was fabulous! Great job!!!


Moms


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