# Dealing with the public.



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I am very new to Schutzhund. Just 4 weeks. Last night, I went to the local park to work on tracking. While I was laying out scent boxes, a woman walked by with 2 GSDs. I said hello and through brief conversation, mentioned what I was doing. She said that her one dog had a tracking title and the other was working on it. I mentioned that we just started doing SchH. She replied, "Well! WE wouldn't do something like THAT. We don't want any mean dogs!" Then she walked off.

I was so taken off guard. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. My dog is a complete sweetie! In fact, last time we worked, he left the field with the sleeve and dropped it so he could greet all the club members before going to the car. We have a hard time getting him to focus during tracking because he wants to see what the people are doing. This sport is making him so vicious! 

It was one of those situations where I WISH I would have said something back to her, but I was just too irritated. So, my question is... What do you say to comments like that?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would just roll my eyes and let her go, and then mutter under my breath, "well WE don't need any idiots like you!"

Luckily, around here no one knows what SchH is unless they are doing it themselves, so if people ask, I get to control what they know about it. I generally describe it very vaguely and always emphasize that it's three phases, not the "attack dog training" people are thinking of.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Really, nothing. Just let it go.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What can you say to comments like that? It's hard to argue with ignorance. My understanding, and I know nothing about Schutzhund, is the dogs have better obedience. I would let it go...after I laughed myself silly.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would (and do) explain the reason for the sport, the lady obviously said it out of ignorance and would be better informed after an explanation. 
Many people have no clue what it is about. 
At the UKC Premier event there were hundreds of the general public attending. The sportwork was in the wayback so you'd only see it if you ventured out there, the wandering crowd may believe it is abuse/or creating a vicious dog and leave with their un-informed opinions, when they see the bitework or courage tests. 
Now UKC has eliminated this from their affiliation, probably due to a few who have no clue, spouting their opinions.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

It is frustrating isn't it??? And this from someone who has Shepherds, and has titled them.

I ran into a very similar situation recently where an active breeder/ competitor made the comment that people who do schutzhund are stupid, and putting sick-em-dog-trainers in the same category. 
Could not think of a good response either.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Those who can do. Those who can't don't get it.


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## Muttman (Sep 16, 2009)

Unfortunately ignorance is not a crime. You cannot change a persons preconceived notions in a chance encounter. People will hold to what they either believe or are taught and usually defend it with a passion. You could have shown her your wonderfully well adjusted confident friend but alas it would most likely lead to a waste of your time and your dogs vauable training time. The best you could ever hope is that she would become interested in arguing and it would lead her to research the sport and learn for herself. The public in general will always have doubts concerning things they don't fully understand until they want to be educated. This woman most likely would not want to know the facts. Good luck with the tracking and keep your chin up and your dogs nose down.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I rarely tell people what I do though I have found the general public far more open to learning than most dog people. If people ask I just tell them I am doing obedience or tracking and leave it at that. My neighbors that stop in out of curiosity, I always explain what we do and let them meet the dogs before they watch the protection. We also have done demo's for 4-H groups to help educate people about our dogs and our sport. This is the best way to deal with ignorance.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Do you think its possible that attitudes like this which coincides with the AKC view of Sch is the reason the American dog is what it is today?????????


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Do you think its possible that attitudes like this which coincides with the AKC view of Sch is the reason the American dog is what it is today?????????


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I hardly ever mention Schutzhund because hardly anyone in the general public know about it. If someone said something like that to me, I would probably (depending on my mood) ignore the barb and criticism and gush: "You KNOW what Schutzhund is??? That is so cool!!! I LOVE the training!! You should see how my older girl, who was from a Shelter BENEFITED from the activities. Her self confidence just expanded exponentially, and where I had a crazy, wild out-of-control dog, I know have a dog with Obedience and tracking titles, and boy, are we having fun!!! 

See what she would say to that?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Generally, I don't mention SchH. Just state that I'm training tracking or obedience, whatever the case may be, and leave it at that.

If I had a similar encounter, I'd probably just roll my eyes and turn away. But if I felt compelled to say something I would go with the stock phrase I use on the rare occasion I do encounter that sort of attitude, something along the lines of "Yeah, that's a very common misconception amongst people who (pick one): don't understand SchH/know what it's about/haven't seen it or done it." 

That sort of plants the seed in her brain that she might be in need of education, so if she has any interest in fixing that ignorance, maybe she will do some research. If not, well, I at least got the satisfaction of calling her an ignoramus in a somewhat polite manner.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: cliftonanderson1Do you think its possible that attitudes like this which coincides with the AKC view of Sch is the reason the American dog is what it is today?????????


Funny you mention it, her dogs were not working dogs. They looked like what people refer to as "American Sheperds". Super low hips and were not at all excited to be on their walk.


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## Muttman (Sep 16, 2009)

Would you be excited about a walk if your hips almost dragged the ground? LOL


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: cliftonanderson1Do you think its possible that attitudes like this which coincides with the AKC view of Sch is the reason the American dog is what it is today?????????


You know, I've often wondered if one of the main reasons more American showline people don't work their dogs is because they don't have TIME. The way the Ch. points are done through AKC, you have to show a LOT, even with a very good dog. And if you're going to dog shows nearly every weekend, when would you train?? And I _rarely_ agree w/the judges, so I got pretty disgusted w/conformation showing in AKC! Of course, if my girls won more often, I might feel different!!







Still, it takes up a lot of time and money, and AKC and the judges are the only ones who benefit from the setup... Why not show under 3 judges, get a score (WITH details on why!!), average them, and THERE YOU GO!??!

And because they can't/don't work them as much, the _reason_ for the breeding goals becomes unclear, and fashion takes over...

...maybe... just some thoughts...









But there ARE a lot of AKC people w/ strong feelings (but little understanding) about SchH. I had trained one of my dogs in PP, and the breeder said she wouldn't have sold to me if she'd known I'd do something like that!







And Merlin had the soundest temperament you could want, and was better behaved that ANY of _her_ dogs!! Oh well...


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: lhczthI rarely tell people what I do though I have found the general public far more open to learning than most dog people.


I have noticed the same. The absolute worst misconceptions about SchH seem to be amongst other dog people. The public in general is much more curious and open minded about it.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: valkyriegsd
> 
> You know, I've often wondered if one of the main reasons more American showline people don't work their dogs is because they don't have TIME.


I don't think anyone has unlimited amounts of time. But how one spends that time showcases the priorities. If they really wanted to work their dogs, they would. Even if it meant sacrificing a few shows so CHs took longer to get. But obviously training/working and the sort of temperament that goes along with it isn't very high on the priority list for most.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Ruthie, maybe I'm clairvoyant(sp), LOL, no seriously it sounded like a typical American breeder comment. Heard it too many times at shows/matches/ obedience trials of AKC. American show dogs lack of working has very little to do with time and everything to do with such a small number have the temperament to work anymore. Nice try Liz...smile!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: valkyriegsd
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: cliftonanderson1Do you think its possible that attitudes like this which coincides with the AKC view of Sch is the reason the American dog is what it is today?????????
> ...


I think it's more priority than time, which I guess could be the same thing. Honestly, other than all day Sunday at SchH club, I don't spend huge amounts of time actually training my dogs. Tracking takes a while (well, at this point it takes me about 10 times longer to lay a good track than with Nikon running it!), but even doing obedience once a day, we are "training" for 10 minutes max, maybe 20 if we walk to a nearby park, train, and then walk back. I do stuff with my dogs every weekend, sometimes all weekend long, but I prioritize training and SchH over other stuff. For example, I could show Nikon three weekends in the next month but I don't want to miss three full days of SchH club so we're doing one show and then have training on Sat morning and all day Sunday like usual the other two weekends. You can do both show and training/trialing, you just have to prioritize.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Oddly enough I've have only one conversation about schutzhund - and it was with my corgi's herding instructor who told me I should train my next gsd pup in herding instead of something gay (her word, not mine) like schutzhund ... she was carrying a big stick and her boots were covered in sheep poo so I didn't argue


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## valkyriegsd (Apr 20, 2000)

I agree w/the comments on this, for the most part. I'm not trying to _excuse_ the Am showline breeders, just wondering if these things contributed to the trend away from working AND showing in conformation. You make time for what you think is important, no question. And there are probably very few (if any) Am-bred dogs that have the drive to be top working dogs now. I know of ones herding, and personally have done obedience and had one that did very well in PP, but you'd obviously have an easier time finding working drive in working lines. That's what they're breeding for, after all!


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I think the turn in this conversation is very interesting. We fell in love with the GSD because of our rescue, Gator. He was no doubt a happy accident of a backyard breeder. He had really decent nerves and great drive and was very active.

When we had to put Gator down, we were devastated. We missed his energy in our household so much that we looked for a puppy quickly after. We did a ton of research! We spent hours and hours on this board and other sources on line. We also went to visit 3 different types of GSD breeders to play with their pups. 

Even though we new we wanted to do something competitive with our pup, we first and foremost wanted a member of the family. And we chose a working line pup because of the breeding. We wanted a dog with energy and strong nerves and drives. We wanted a dog that we could feel confident going out in public with. 

I am not trying to insult the show line by any means, but they just didn’t have the personality that WE were looking for.

It makes me sad that some breeders are more concerned about having the looks than the perfect companion.


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