# Show Line Breeder in the West? (Von Dax?)



## rukiel (Aug 29, 2017)

Hi everyone! I really want to make the right breeder decision. 

I have officially decided on a Show Line GSD. I'm open to both American and West German lines. 

I've been taking my time deciding on a breeder, as you can probably tell. A few of my top picks fell through because their dog's didn't have the most important traits I'm looking for and this is a big commitment for me. (One kept telling me that "all our puppies are the same", the other (Theishof which is incredible!) doesn't have very affectionate males, usually). 

I'm an aspiring dog trainer.
This dog will be my training partner, demo dog, and if his temperament is right for it he will double as my Service Dog. If he washes, he will still be my lifetime companion. 

Most important traits, I have come to understand of myself; 
1. Very affectionate/cuddly (I know it's a hit or miss with GSDs! A risk I'm willing to take


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

There are many. Where in the West?


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## rukiel (Aug 29, 2017)

(sorry! Accidentally submitted before I was done and don't know how to edit my original post!) 

2. Must have good handler focus/be engaged
3. Eager to please
4. Stable temperament


I am in South-Central Oregon but am willing to travel. 

So far I have been looking at Von Dax in Nevada the most. Their dogs are beautiful and the health tests seem to be in order. They said that their dogs are very affectionate, especially "Tucker" who is their "ambassador" when people visit. 

I was looking at WindRidge as well but I really don't like that they force Spay/Neuter as I have no desire to neuter my dog unless it's medically necessary. 

I am will to travel as far as a 6 hour drive from Silver Lake, Oregon. 

Thank you!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

rukiel said:


> Hi everyone! I really want to make the right breeder decision.
> 
> I have officially decided on a Show Line GSD. I'm open to both American and West German lines.
> 
> ...



I think you really need to understand the breed, the correct temperament , the lines .

You need to not got to a "line" you do need to go to a breeder who understands the requirements for training , a demo-dog a calibre above , and a therapy dog , another kettle of fish altogehther .

cuddly is nice , cuddly does not cut it.

I wouldn't expect to find what you need (easiily if at all ) in the "lines" that you have decided on .


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## rukiel (Aug 29, 2017)

@carmspack

I understand what you are saying but maybe I don't understand what point you are making?
Did you see the other half of my post? 

I have spoken to a lot of other GSD owners on different platforms at this point and understand that what I am looking for is sort of special. I don't have high hopes that I will find the "perfect" dog. I have done enough research for the better half of a decade to be 100% positive that a German Shepherd is the breed that I want next. 

The most important thing to me is that he is a good companion to me.
I don't want an over the top neurotic dog that is incapable of settling. I don't want an IPO prospect either. 

(I want to make it clear though that I AM athletic and capable of providing a GSD with the physical and mental exercise they need to be content. In fact I love to do it!)

He doesn't need to be super easy or a perfect training partner. I can work with almost any dog.

I know that lines can't guarantee anything. That isn't why I'm looking for specific lines. I merely have a preference for show lines. I have been much more fond of the show lines that I have met. Especially temperament-wise. Some working line dogs have been awesome but some are a pinch too intense for what I'm looking for.

I don't expect to find EXACTLY everything that I'm looking for. A SD prospect would be nice but I don't have my hopes up that my GSD will be that. I can't wait and get another Golden in a few years if I need to for my SDiT. I will try with him but if it doesn't work then it doesn't work and I'm okay with that.

I am a confident trainer and I'm not a dog rookie. I am positive that if I find a breeder that breeds dogs of sound temperament and health with a lot of what I'm looking for and they help me to find the best match in their litter; that I can work with my pup to fit my needs. 

I know a lot of trainers that have used their rescue dogs as demo dogs so I know I'm not searching for a needle in a haystack.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I did read the entire post .
the first one and the second one.

seems like you can't fail because your target goals are super flexible , lowered bar 
quickly.

i am not a rookie . I know about training. I know about service dogs having provided 
many that are now certified service dogs for Veterans , USA and Canada.

go to obedience trials . 

Five years of advice already .?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I’m not familiar with breeders in Oregon you can contact the gsd Oregon club maybe they have breeders they can recommend. There may be members here that are in your area that are familiar with the breeders you mentioned or you can take a look at the search forum. I heard good things about theishoff’s dogs - worth taking a look. Regarding service dog’s there is a Link with info regarding the challenges of looking for a german Shepherd for service dog work and what to look for. 
https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=717306
http://www.gsdcoregon.com/whelpbox.html


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Not all Working Lines are over the top, neurotic dogs that cannot settle in the home. It's all about the breeder knowing which dog pedigrees mix well together and what they will produce. My breeder (we're on the east coast) has a few dogs that have gone on to do service dog work. She also has dogs doing Therapy, IPO, SAR, and other sports as well. You just need a knowledgeable breeder. 


I don't know many breeders on the west coast. I do know Taylor Made working dogs is in CA, however I'm unsure how reputable they are. If you are 100% set on a show line, I'm sure someone can offer some advice on a breeder that could possible produce what you are looking for.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My working line was incredibly calm in the house. Worked full time long days. Not a ounce of over activity. Needed his exercise and mental stimulation but was very adaptable, biddeable, had strong drives. I do not see any difference with energy levels with my dogs I have now which are show lines- my experience.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

I'm active in the West German Showline world, and I would also recommend adding to your list of requirements, specifically if you want a service dog. Research the lines and find dogs and breeders that fit what you're looking for as far as what kind of drives you want, temperament, etc. Talk to the breeder about their health testing, whether they train the dogs themselves, whether they have ever bred any service dogs, and ask to speak to those clients.

For example, I'm in the market for a new working line and have emailed kennels diatribes (literally 6-7 paragraphs, 5-7 sentences long, about what I'm looking for in a dog.) I want something very specific, and if you want an SD, you probably want something very specific, too. Research and figure out what you need. Talk to SD programs, ask them what they look for in a prospect, ask them where they get their dogs from and put together specifications of your perfect dog then ask breeders to meet those specifications. Deal with breeders who are open to matching what you need, who are honest about their programs and who breed for temperament and health first and foremost. 

In my working line search I have spoken to a few breeders who flat out told me they did not have a breeding coming up that matched what I wanted. They were honest about their dogs and their goals. Those are the breeders you want to talk to, not people who try to sell you a dog you don't need by claiming it's what you want. You need to be specific in what you are looking for so that people don't try to sell you on a dog that isn't what you need. Keep in mind that the washout rate for SDs is somewhere around 65-70%. You need a very specific dog.


For a WGSL, I know of one kennel that has produced a few SDs:
Alta-Tollhaus | Home of Awesome German Shepherd Dogs

The other WGSL kennels I would recommend are below:

https://www.eastpointgermanshepherds.com/ (Tracy just moved, so I don't think she has any litters on the ground or pregnant females, but once they get settled into their new home she will be back at it. She also imports.)

http://romuendergsd.com/ (The website isn't really kept up to date, so just reach out to Karen. I have trained and trialed with Champ and he is a heck of a dog. He's drivey, biddable and loves to work. An actual working WGSL dog.)

https://www.mittelwest.com/ (Take this with a grain of salt. I do not have any experience with this kennel and they are a big, business kennel. That said, I've seen some dogs from them that I really like. It will be your responsibility to sort through their breedings and find a pair that works for you.)


Not all of these are in the "West." If you honestly want a sound dog, great temperament, drivey and a dog that can make it as an SD, you may need to broaden your search.

Good luck! The puppy searching process is a long road, but so worth it when you find that perfect pup.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

OP, I sent you a PM


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

How would you define cuddly? I've had a working line and currently have a WGSL and a white shepherd. While they have all been very affectionate and loyal (they love ear scratches and rump/belly rubs, and they always want to be at my feet ect), I'm not sure I'd describe any of them as cuddly. The word cuddly tends to make me think of labs or goldens or smaller companion breeds. Have you looked at all the posts on the forum about landshaking and people asking if their 14-week old puppy is aggressive? Of course, this isn't aggression, and with appropriate training, puppies grow out of this play-biting when they are done teething (or before). 

The GSDs I have had tend to be more rough-and-tumble than cuddly. They like to play tug and bite things and run and chase and jump. I never doubt their affection for me. They never leave my side. If I lock them out of a room for some reason, the floor on the other side of the door will be warm because they have been lying there waiting for me. But I think they'd rather play tug or hike or chase a flirt pole than snuggle on the couch. Now that they are older, they will snuggle on the couch, but only after they've done the former. 

Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage you. You sound like an ideal owner, and you've probably met enough shepherds to know what you want. 

GSDs are certainly the right breed for me. My WGSL came from the south, and I'm very happy with him. I'll send you the link to his breeder's website if you want to expand your search. Please keep us updated and let us know what you decide. Puppy pictures are definitely welcome when the time comes! 

Best of luck.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

In my GSD world, cuddly is being able to throw an arm or a leg over Scarlet while she’s on the couch, and she doesn’t get up and lie down somewhere else. My standards are pretty low, lol.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Picture from just now: my two WLs on a non active day. Both are pretty intense dogs with a great off button. They are also very sweet and cuddly.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I don't see why the OP can't find a showline that fits her needs, if that is what she wants. 

I believe an acquaintance of mine has a dog from them (vom Dax) and they seem happy. I can't really provide any further info than that. I will say my friend got a service dog from Shannon O'Donnovan (she used to be on the west coast - vom zwillingshaus, and unfortunately she is no longer here) who has a great temperament. 

All my showlines have varied in "cuddliness," but I don't think that should be a deal breaker for you in the sense of writing off breeders, like Heidi Theis. Just my opinion.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Sigh. OP specifically asked for *show line* breeders. He/she said they have done the research and settled on a show line. Why do people keep insisting on working lines?? This is an example of what people mean when they say this forum has a working line bias.

OP, good luck in your search. There are some great show line breeders out there, and while I can't specifically help you, there are others who can. Don't listen to people who insist you need a working line.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Not sure how the whole affectionate thing willwork out. Nurture plays a part, but you kind of get what you get at maturity. There may be things you can look for in a pup and it doesn't hurt to ask those questions in your search. My girls like attention and will hang out while I watch tv or read before going to bed, but they like their space too and will get down from the bed at some point. Earlier this year Zoe became noticeably more affectionate and it had me concerned so I took her to the vet. Aside from finding out she has pannus, she is very healthy. She's approaching 9 years old so maturity helps I suppose, lol

Heidi Theis is the only breeder mentioned that I am familiar with and can recommend. Good luck, I hope you find the pup your looking for!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Pytheis said:


> Why do people keep insisting on working lines?? This is an example of what people mean when they say this forum has a working line bias.
> 
> Don't listen to people who insist you need a working line.


My response was based on what she was looking for and she/he didn't want a neurotic dog. I read from that quote that she chose a show line to avoid a neurotic dog. I have seen more neurotic show dogs (in shows) and pet lines than in WLs. Disclaimer!: I do realize that you can have these problems in both lines :surrender:
I think the OP will limit her/himself by assuming that only a show line will give her what she is looking for and, by the way,
I didn't tell her/him to get or need a WL if you were referring my posts.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

wolfy dog said:


> My response was based on what she was looking for and she/he didn't want a neurotic dog. I read from that quote that she chose a show line to avoid a neurotic dog. I have seen more neurotic show dogs (in shows) and pet lines than in WLs. Disclaimer!: I do realize that you can have these problems in both lines :surrender:
> I think the OP will limit her/himself by assuming that only a show line will give her what she is looking for and, by the way,
> I didn't tell her/him to get or need a WL if you were referring my posts.


I was not referring to anyone specifically. Just that OP did the research, they decided on show lines, and they are now looking for SL breeders. These types of threads often turn into line debates when there really is no reason for it. Some people want show lines. I'm sure OP has read many threads where WL owners explain that their dog is not a neurotic mess that needs constant exercise and attention. Maybe they just need a slightly less intense dog overall.

Anyway, my point is, please don't let this devolve into a line debate. I'm not aiming that at anyone specifically.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You can shape a dog into being more affectionate. My WL didn’t like restraint at all. So I started rewarding first with a hand on his back, then an arm, then a hug. Now, he likes to lie next to me on the couch and sometimes I get a head on my lap. I wouldn’t call him cuddly, but that is close enough. My Showline puppies have all been extremely active and independent. Not at all cuddly. It’s funny but my WL is probably more what you would like than my SLs have been. He knew I was writing about him. He just jumped up next to me and started licking my arm...and his butt.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the OP also asked for an obedience dog .

A demo dog.

A service dog.

I recommended that they find that breeder who has reliable success in those categories.

I go to obedience trials. I read the trial results -- where are all the GSD ?

Last one attended , big National specialty event -- performances very sad.
Over the years you don't see Champs or dogs being shown - 

service dog ? big discussion lately about "service dog" definition being too lax - 
who trains, who certifies.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

carmspack said:


> I go to obedience trials. I read the trial results -- where are all the GSD ?



I have a good friend trialing her bitch this weekend, working on getting her UD, at the same show I’m going to. Her last GSD had a UD. She’s also picking up a show puppy this weekend, which I know will eventually have a UD.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

carmspack said:


> the OP also asked for an obedience dog .
> 
> A demo dog.
> 
> ...



Just for you Carmen, when I get my next pup we will shoot for UD. Because it offends me that GSD's are under represented in Obedience, of all things. But it will be a WL, because that's what I want.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Rukiel- german shepherds are highly trainable incredibly fast learners!!!!! That includes SHOWLINES!!!!!! Go out and meet them! Many many showlines breeders do have obedience and title their dogs. You will see many different interests from scent work, obedience, agility etc. etc. as in one link above I just happen to come across. There is a seeing eye dog foundation in New Jersey that use german shepherds maybe they can recommend some breeders or guidance. 
https://m.facebook.com/SeeingEye
http://www.seeingeye.org
http://www.seeingeye.org/puppies-dogs/puppy-stories/joseph-enya.html
http://www.seeingeye.org/puppies-dogs/puppy-stories/kristin-cassius.html


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

dogfaeries said:


> I have a good friend trialing her bitch this weekend, working on getting her UD, at the same show I’m going to. Her last GSD had a UD. She’s also picking up a show puppy this weekend, which I know will eventually have a UD.




These are all ASL, btw.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

guided dogs -- many DDR, working "lines" whcih are not sport or podium, recent input
of Czech dogs 

-- using Bernd Lierberg family and descendants ,

herding lines which are genetic and not modern trialing dogs.

family and descendants of Arko and Bodo Grafental.

balanced pedigrees which have used the entire make up of the breed and
not a specialized division

most prgrammes are in-house with sought after specific input 

know a running program which has high success in getting dogs certified and
into the hands of Veterans in need .

there are no show , not WGS or American

this person is not biased -- he will find dogs in shelters and test the ying yang out of
them and train them and give them and the new owner a better chance for a happy life.


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## rukiel (Aug 29, 2017)

Thank you everyone for the great response! 

I didn't mean to offend anyone when saying that I'm not interested in Working Lines. It's just a personal choice! 

I do believe that WLs are diverse and there are a lot of dogs that are WL and could potentially fit the bill - but I would personally prefer a Show Line. I'd prefer to live with one. ? 

Also! I want to clarify when I said that I didn't want a neurotic dog I was NOT saying that Working Lines are neurotic! BYB dogs are often the most neurotic and there are stable and unstable dogs in both Show and Working Lines. Once again - did not mean to offend! I was trying to just be clear that I need a dog that will settle well with adequate exercise and mental stimulation! 

I love Working Lines from a distance but I would prefer a Show Line for my first GSD. 

I'd also really like to thank those of you that gave me some suggestions! I appreciate it! I'm still open to more suggestions as I want to keep looking! 

Thanks again!


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## Cody (Aug 3, 2011)

Have you considered Bullinger She has a really good reputation and you can also save a bit of money with the exchange rate.


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## rukiel (Aug 29, 2017)

@Cody
Their dogs are beautiful! Where are they based out of?


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## Cody (Aug 3, 2011)

Just outside Vancouver B.C.


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