# Bad dog fight...



## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Varick (17 months old) and our family dog, Cookie (12 years old) got into three bad fights yesterday. Varick is a good dog, though he is very much a puppy. Cookie is a nuisance; if either Harley or Varick get too close to the laundry room (where we keep the dog food), she bites them directly in the face with no warning. Harley doesn't take her crap. He fights back and will pin her to the floor, biting at her neck, though he never truly hurts her and only does this for a short moment.
Yesterday, she bit Varick for this reason. It was the first time. He immediately started attacking her. He seemed ruthless. It was terrifying. Cookie was literally _screaming_. She was completely defenceless. And he wouldn't stop! I had to pull him off of her with all my strength. I honestly thought he was going to kill her. And I think he would have. This is #1.
The second and third time he attacked her (just as bad as the first time) was unprovoked. They had a "stand-off" and he just pinned her to the floor, tearing at her neck. I'm surprised there was no blood. I'm keeping them in separate rooms. Varick is fine with Harley. Varick is such a good dog. He has never done anything like this before. It may sound bad, but I don't think I can blame him. Cookie messed with the wrong dog.
I'm worried. What are your thoughts?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Also, I try to avoid situations like this by keeping Varick away from the laundry room when someone opens the door (this is when she stands guard). I can't be there 24/7.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

The resource guarding of the food in the laundry room needs to stop right away. It is your house and your food, not Cookie's.

The fights may continue now that they have started. 

I would keep an eye on them, crate them, or Cookie, when you're not home, but definitely either move the food away from there or stop her behavior immediately. She shouldn't be doing this standing guard nonsense.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Keep them separated. Too many times a big dog has killed another smaller dog over something that could have easily been prevented. Don't allow them near each other. Get a crate so when you aren't on top of him, he is confined. If he instigated a second, uprovokaed attack, then he isn't as innocent as you are making him out to be. Its an easy fix. Keep them away from each other.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Do all of these dogs live together full time? If they do, you're just going to have to manage them by always keeping them separate. It's going to happen again given the chance.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Hondo is a big, 4 year old, intact male GSD. Maggie is an older (she's a rescue) Miniture Dachshund. She rules the roost and Hondo allows her. But they are never left alone. Any time she tries to steal his food/treat/toy, I stop it. One day, when Hondo has had a bad day or feeling off, he'll correct her. Not his job. Mine. So when I'm not home, Maggie is in a kennel.

When there isn't a resource for her to steal, they are best friends. She'll even curl up to him when she's cold and he'll move to give her more room. But I take no chances, he can take her entire head into his mouth.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Please. Take NO chances. Now you must completely control the environment. Gate, crate, and rotate. Everything the other posters suggested too, but the "can't be there all the time" thought has to go. It is now YOUR responsibility to PROTECT all members of your pack. If you don't you will have a dead or badly injured dog. Please take this very seriously and do not allow another "accident" to happen. Please.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

After reading your post again I'm really disappointed that you allowed this to happen a second and third time. You are not taking this seriously enough. You simply MUST make your facilities where you keep your pack safe for them. GATE. CRATE. ROTATE. Line on the aggressor dog even when you're right there, so you can keep everyone safe. Brittany, once this has happened (to this degree of seriousness) you can never be comfortable that it won't happen again, I will repeat, you must control the environment.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Is there food always in the dish/dishes? Do you free feed?

If you are free feeding, I would stop that. Feed them in separate rooms and make sure they all finish their food and then pick up the bowls. 

I also agree with the others when they say crate and rotate or when one is outside the other is free inside.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> The resource guarding of the food in the laundry room needs to stop right away. It is your house and your food, not Cookie's.
> 
> The fights may continue now that they have started.
> 
> I would keep an eye on them, crate them, or Cookie, when you're not home, but definitely either move the food away from there or stop her behavior immediately. She shouldn't be doing this standing guard nonsense.


How can I stop her from doing this? 
When I can't keep an eye on Varick, I always put him in his crate, which is upstairs in my room.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Lucy Dog said:


> *Do all of these dogs live together full time?* If they do, you're just going to have to manage them by always keeping them separate. It's going to happen again given the chance.


Yes. I realize now that things are going to have to change.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

To add to all the above:

Move the food from the laundry room. The food is associated with the laundry room and has become a bottleneck of tension. 

Meals are served in crates, bowls removed after a set time. 

Inconvenient? Yep, but you have 3 dogs now fighting of some kind, if you don't step in and make some changes, you will have at least one very hurt dog or worse.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

katieliz said:


> After reading your post again I'm really disappointed that you allowed this to happen a second and third time. You are not taking this seriously enough. You simply MUST make your facilities where you keep your pack safe for them. GATE. CRATE. ROTATE. Line on the aggressor dog even when you're right there, so you can keep everyone safe. Brittany, once this has happened (to this degree of seriousness) you can never be comfortable that it won't happen again, I will repeat, you must control the environment.


We have a gate separating the living room and the kitchen. Yesterday, I came to the conclusion that Cookie will have to be kept in the living room, while Varick and Harley will stay in the kitchen. I understand how serious it is. I'm disappointed in _myself_ for letting it happen at all. Completely my fault. I will do everything in my power to keep it from happening again.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

LaRen616 said:


> Is there food always in the dish/dishes? Do you free feed?
> 
> If you are free feeding, I would stop that. Feed them in separate rooms and make sure they all finish their food and then pick up the bowls.
> 
> I also agree with the others when they say crate and rotate or when one is outside the other is free inside.


I do not free feed Varick. I always feed him in his crate, which is in my bedroom. I always have.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I do not free feed Varick. I always feed him in his crate, which is in my bedroom. I always have.


Do you free feed Cookie? Is there always food in her bowl?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Twyla said:


> To add to all the above:
> 
> Move the food from the laundry room. The food is associated with the laundry room and has become a bottleneck of tension.
> 
> ...


I always feed Varick in his crate, I always have, always will. 
Harley and Cookie are fed in the kitchen in opposite corners of the room and we always put away their food bowls when they're done. Could I move one of them into the living room for meals?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

LaRen616 said:


> Do you free feed Cookie? Is there always food in her bowl?


By free feeding, are you referring to feeding on the floor with another dog feeding at the same time, or keeping food in the bowl at all times? (Wow, that sounds like an idiotic question...)
Well we do not keep food in her bowl at all times. We feed the dogs twice a day, no more. 
Harley and Cookie eat in the kitchen at opposite corners.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> By free feeding, are you referring to feeding on the floor with another dog feeding at the same time, or keeping food in the bowl at all times? (Wow, that sounds like an idiotic question...)
> Well we do not keep food in her bowl at all times. We feed the dogs twice a day, no more.
> Harley and Cookie eat in the kitchen at opposite corners.


Ok, so you store the dog food in the laundry room but you do not feed the dogs in there. Can you move the dog food bag to another area that they can't or don't go into, like a closet, the basement or the garage?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

LaRen616 said:


> Ok, so you store the dog food in the laundry room but you do not feed the dogs in there. Can you move the dog food bag to another area that they can't or don't go into, like a closet, the basement or the garage?


I can definitely move the food into one of the bedroom closets upstairs. The dogs are not allowed free run upstairs.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

katieliz said:


> After reading your post again I'm really disappointed that you allowed this to happen a second and third time. You are not taking this seriously enough. You simply MUST make your facilities where you keep your pack safe for them. GATE. CRATE. ROTATE. Line on the aggressor dog even when you're right there, so you can keep everyone safe. Brittany, once this has happened (to this degree of seriousness) you can never be comfortable that it won't happen again, I will repeat, you must control the environment.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> How can I stop her from doing this?
> When I can't keep an eye on Varick, I always put him in his crate, which is upstairs in my room.


You get the food out of the laundry room, and when you even see her think about hanging around there, you correct and have her go elsewhere.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> You get the food out of the laundry room, and when you even see her think about hanging around there, you correct and have her go elsewhere.


 Thank you for the reply back.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Hi Brittany, I just re-read my posts and want to say whoa, I came down pretty hard there...and thanks for taking it to heart tho, cause it does come from a genuine desire to protect the animals. I have two separate packs because of two alpha bitches...had more than one fight here before d(as in dumb)h would take it seriously, and cooperate with the very strict enforcement of the g/c/r rules. Nothin worse than seeing your dogs hurt. Take care, good luck. Ps...have to say that it can be pretty stressful, and a whole lotta responsibility to completely manage the environment for multiple dogs.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> You get the food out of the laundry room, and when you even see her think about hanging around there, you correct and have her go elsewhere.


 Thank you for the feedback.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

katieliz said:


> Hi Brittany, I just re-read my posts and want to say whoa, I came down pretty hard there...and thanks for taking it to heart tho, cause it does come from a genuine desire to protect the animals. I have two separate packs because of two alpha bitches...had more than one fight here before d(as in dumb)h would take it seriously, and cooperate with the very strict enforcement of the g/c/r rules. Nothin worse than seeing your dogs hurt. Take care, good luck. Ps...have to say that it can be pretty stressful, and a whole lotta responsibility to completely manage the environment for multiple dogs.


Your last post did hurt my feeling a bit, but I understood the seriousness of the situation and that you were just concerned. I am going to do whatever it takes to control the situation. 
Thank you, your previous replies did open my eyes.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I know how it is to have your dogs at odds. My female Zena used to put her mouth over her daughters mouth a lot. I thought it was just a dominance thing. ( My huge mistake. ) What I didn't realize was she was biting Sirie harder and harder every time. I had them out exercising them. All the sudden they both started fighting. I ran over and pulled Zena off her and my male jumped her. I had been treating Sirie for an eye infection that took over 2 months to clear up and in 5 seconds Zena had bit Sirie above the eye and it was bleeding. I pulled Dizan off her, spanked them both and threw them in the back seat and said," I hear one peep out of either one of you, you will get spanked again!" I said," Come on Sirie." She got to ride in the front. She knew SHE wasn't in trouble. hehehe After that, any time Zena tried that mouthing crap I went over and grabbed her and scolded her. It was my fault this even happened but if you take the advise above, you will be fine.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

I have dealt with this issue myself and my dogs came out OK but I was getting hurt breaking them up! My first ever stitches in my fingers.

Gonna go out on a limb and say (the bad dog) has a "problem" with his position in the dog pack? Most likely has never challenged you but not happy with being # 2? Who goes out the door first in the pack? Who gets pet first, who gets the prime spot on the furniture if this is allowed?

Your under a lot of stress now and that 's understandable but right now do whatever you can to keep both dogs safe! Which it sounds like your doing.

These dogs may no longer ever be able to be left alone together but here is where I would start. This dogs life needs to change! I would treat him as a new arrival and have him "earn" his house rights!

Someone has already mentioned a "line" a drag leash it's just a regular leash that the dog has on him around the house indoors all the time. And a soft muzzle (fabric) as an emergency back up, they can work those off but it will give you time to react if there are issue, use it only when they are under observation!

I'd put a dominate dog collar on him and learn how to properly use it! I think him being created in your room (if that's the case, not sure) is an issue.

Who is the Alpha dog in the pack it sounds like it's Varick? In any case Varick needs to be reeducated in the rules of the household.

You can also look for a certified qualified behaviorists..Petco's is not gonna cut it!  

I'm sure you can get suggest on here if you want to go that route. 

Good luck and keep them safe!


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> I'd put a dominate dog collar on him and learn how to properly use it! I think him being created in your room (if that's the case, not sure) is an issue.


What is a "dominate dog collar"?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

OriginalWacky said:


> What is a "dominate dog collar"?


Something that should not be used by anyone other than a very experienced trainer. 


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