# GSD nipped neighbor.



## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

Something very disappointing happened to me yesterday, and I could use some candid advice.


I have two GSD's. Lanee, my 7 year old female, and Rogan, my 4 year old male. Both are spayed/neutered. Lanee tends to be very laid back, chill, not really a people person, but will sit and observe when I have guests over. Rogan tends to be very hyper generally, always "on the go", but is very friendly and warms up to most people very quickly. 


Our next door neighbor has a 10 year old pit-mix that is the sweetest dog you could ever know. However, that particular dog does not like other dogs. It has on one occasion bit Lanee in the snout. Both Lanee and Rogan have had negative interactions at the fence with this dog, and I do my best, as does my neighbor, to avoid being outside at the same time. For the most part, everything works out just fine. However, every time my neighbor comes outside, she's usually on the phone. Both of my GSD's, especially my male, get very riled up in the house when he hears my neighbors voice, wanting to go outside, knowing the other dog is there.


So yesterday, my neighbors were all over for a social visit in the backyard. Lanee and Rogan were outside. Rogan went up to the aforementioned neighbor, jumped up on her, and nipped her in the arm with his front teeth. It did break her skin. She left and went to urgent care. No stiches needed. I took care of all the expenses as of today, and that matter has been put to bed between us. Thankfully my neighbor is very understanding and caring. Life moves on.


Needless to say I am deeply troubled by Rogan's behavior. That was totally unacceptable. The moment he nipped her, I immediately corrected him by saying, "no bite", and he immediately laid down and cowered. He looked confused and clearly knew he did something wrong. I immediately took him in the house. Lanee followed along without incident. 


Rogan has never displayed this type of aggressive behavior to a single soul. I have contractors come in the house, random people sometimes, and he will at most just follow them around, watching what they do. Some of them he warms right up to and falls into their laps wanting to cuddle. So this event yesterday has me trying to make certain I know what happened and what to do.


So, please be blunt, and tell me what I should be thinking of, doing, preventing, etc.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You know now he will bite. Put him away when people come over. I'd recommend you put them both away when people come over, but with out a doubt, him.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> You know now he will bite. Put him away when people come over. I'd recommend you put them both away when people come over, but with out a doubt, him.



I'm wondering though if his association of the neighbor and the dog he doesn't like was the trigger. Putting them in their crates when people are over doesn't solve the problem.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Get the dog under control so *you* get to make the decisions and not he. Work on obedience and impulse control in all areas of his life. If you need help, hire a private trainer to come to the house. In the meantime, if he has a problem with hearing the neighbor, calmly put him in his crate or call him to you for some obedience work to stop this nonsense. Outside I would put him on a prong so you have control in unexpected situations prior to your neighbor being outside. Stay calm to avoid more hype.
Hats off for taking responsibility though!
Keep us posted. Curious what others have to say.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Happening again compounds it though. You want blunt, if it was something you could solve, it wouldn't have happened. I don't mean that to be insulting at all, thats how I look at it with myself and my own dogs. When anyone comes over, both of mine are out or kenneled.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

Fair points from you both. I will be working on doing exactly that.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

You should be thinking of your Home Owners Insurance, even if the neighbor isn't making a claim. Here's why:

Many states allow a contract provision creating a "duty to report" even if there's no claim -- failure to report makes the policy subject to rescission (retroactive cancellation ) in those states if it would be a "material change in risk," and a bite history surely is one. The insurers argue they wouldn't have underwritten the policy at all had they known. They use this argument to rescind the policy after any major claim -- like a fire that has nothing to do with the dog -- arguing there wouldn't be a policy in place at all had they known about the real risk. They treat failure to tell them about a dog's bite history as essentially a fraudulent omission in the policy application (and you effectively reapply every time you renew, so not telling them of "material changes" is essentially the same as lying to them in the renewal process, from their perspective).

I would read the policy fine print carefully about your duty to report, and find out from your state insurance commissioner's office if your state allows rescission, and what your duty is as an insured. 

Most HOI companies will not insure dogs with bite histories. They either exclude the dogs (forcing you to buy a separate dog bite policy), or they deny coverage.


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## Kcxgsd (Feb 7, 2013)

There are times where you should put your boy away, but in times where their dog or neighbor are out you should keep a leash on him and manage him more than usual. And maybe sometimes not let your boy play with the neighbors dog so he learn that he doesnt get to play with them everytime they are out. Hope this helps.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My 2 cents in red



Waffle Iron said:


> I'm wondering though if his association of the neighbor and the dog he doesn't like was the trigger.
> 
> Of course. But it not an excuse Putting them in their crates when people are over doesn't solve the problem.
> But it will save another bite. He bit and won't forget. Your liability is high now; you have a 'known biter'


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> My 2 cents in red


 
Right I get that and that's a fine course of action, one I will do. That being said, I want to identify why he reacted that way and fix the problem. 


The irony to me in this is both are rescues: Lanee came from a home where she was abused. It took a couple years of solid daily training with her to get her to where she's aloof, but laid back, and not aggressive in the least. Rogan is the total opposite: came from a home where the owner died, and is normally very well behaved and very social. So this is unexpected behavior on his part.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Waffle Iron said:


> Right I get that and that's a fine course of action, one I will do. That being said, I want to identify why he reacted that way and fix the problem.
> 
> 
> The irony to me in this is both are rescues: Lanee came from a home where she was abused. It took a couple years of solid daily training with her to get her to where she's aloof, but laid back, and not aggressive in the least. Rogan is the total opposite: came from a home where the owner died, and is normally very well behaved and very social. So this is unexpected behavior on his part.


The first thing I usually guess, and I'm just guessing, he wasn't as comfortable and social with others as you may have thought and it escalated to this.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Waffle Iron said:


> I want to identify why he reacted that way and fix the problem.
> 
> Rogan is the total opposite: came from a home where the owner died, and is normally very well behaved and very social. So this is unexpected behavior on his part.


(Glad you asked for honest, blunt advice) I personally wouldn't care what he thought; he took matters in his own 'hands' because he could, he had the slack to do it.
The fact that he evidently has been socialized points to being spoiled and you not being alert on his earlier cues? I mean this in a respectful way.
I would never trust him again in any company but this is probably easy to get under control with training (don't give him an inch anymore) and management (crating, kenneling). Also keep an eye on your other dog as she has seen this bite. You don't know what goes on the hard drive.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

Waffle Iron said:


> Right I get that and that's a fine course of action, one I will do. That being said, I want to identify why he reacted that way and fix the problem.


Well, this is an odd position for me to take, but it really doesn't matter _why _he bit your neighbor --- and don't minimize it, call it what it is --- he bit her. I'd follow the advice from previous posters and crate him whenever people are over. Solves the problem and addresses your liability. 

I can sympathize, I lived with a biter for 10 years. He trotted out of the womb that way and his first reaction to anything/anyone remotely questionable was to nail it/them, or try to, especially children. Solution? He _always_ went into the playroom (his crate) with a treat, a toy and classical music playing whenever anyone came over. Problem solved.

Aly


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

You can''t fix the problem. He's bitten someone. What if you think you've undid the problem and he bites again? That would be a huge problem. Not worth the risk. Just put him away when people are on your property.


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## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

I would also think simply putting the dogs in the house while having neighbors over for a "social" event would obviously stop what happened .....I'm curious though you say the dog's generally hyper-always on the go and very friendly... is it possible this "nip"--jumping up etc. was just excitement over a crowd of people in "his" back yard....I've been around dogs that react that way when they're happy and excited--they get "nippy".....180 degrees from aggression....only you really "know" what you feel you saw....Was it real aggression ? That's not going to change the neighbors trip to the emergency room....I've got that.....but.....it WOULD change how I'd plan for and handle various types of situations....with the dog in the future.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree with the others. I am one of several responsible for getting a dog seized by AC. I told the owner before the 2nd incident (me being bitten unprovoked was the first reported), that she can and should do training with a reputable trainer but the first thing she needs to do is make sure her dog does not have access to people, and in this case, other dogs ............

Well she did not listen. The behavior escalated. Dog is gone and I don't feel a bit guilty. 

You can and should put the dog up. Like the others said.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

Alright. So be it. Crates it will be. 


I do have a special someone who will be coming into town in a couple weeks and will be living with me for a time. That person has never met Lanee or Rogan. So how should I approach that for success?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I think you are right @ Waffle Iron - the neighbor and the sound of her voice are have become one of triggers for his defensive aggression.It's pretty well an ingrained 'thing' now and I agree with keeping him separated from any guests.Even if he's out among your friends and family he's comfortable with and he hears the neighbor or the dog,he could get frustrated and nip whomever is nearby to alleviate his stress.I'd be afraid to chance it.You and your dog will both feel less stressed if he's somewhere safe and separate.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

Well one silver lining is we're preparing to move to Florida at the end of the month. Neighbor and the dog will be in the pages of history soon.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Waffle Iron said:


> Well one silver lining is we're preparing to move to Florida at the end of the month. Neighbor and the dog will be in the pages of history soon.


While this may be true, your dog still bit someone unprovoked, so it seems, and you know about it. So the proposed corrections still apply. Don't take it lightly, bites have a way of getting more severe as time progresses.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

NancyJ said:


> While this may be true, your dog still bit someone unprovoked, so it seems, and you know about it. So the proposed corrections still apply. Don't take it lightly, bites have a way of getting more severe as time progresses.



Thanks, Nancy. I will be doing that. One question I posted above...I do have a special someone who will be coming into town in a couple weeks and will be living with me for a time. That person has never met Lanee or Rogan. So how should I approach that for success?


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I'm glad you were able to work things out with your neighbor. That is one of my nightmares. My dogs have never shown any inappropriate aggression towards anyone, but I still put them away when we have company. They are only allowed to have un-leashed access to people who come over to the house frequently and are comfortable with dogs; in our case, only a few extended family members. 

I, too, think you should keep your dogs out of the way when company comes over. You don't really have anything to lose by it. I think that if you're having someone coming to live with you for an extended time, the dogs can adjust to them as a member of the family. I'm not a trainer, so I wouldn't try to tell you how to go about that though...I would have plenty of leashed interactions and supervision to start with. I'm sure others will chime in.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Waffle Iron said:


> I'm wondering though if his association of the neighbor and the dog he doesn't like was the trigger. Putting them in their crates when people are over doesn't solve the problem.


It doesn't matter the trigger. You are in Michigan and they have tough dangerous dog laws. Steve is right. Contain him before another bite happens and he gets euthanized.

Dogs know the difference between people and dogs. Your dog was not redirecting from the hated dog. Be simply jumped and bit inappropriately.


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

I also wondered if the dog was over excited or aggressive. Those are two very different things, but in the end I guess it doesn't matter much. The dog has already bitten, and steps need to be taken.

Perhaps a muzzle when introducing to the new person coming to live with you would be a good idea.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

On my end. Not ignoring you. Just don't have experience with that particular scenario. The thing I would consider is having someone local who deals with aggressive behaviors and has a good reputation, evaluate the dog in front of them and make suggestions.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Waffle Iron said:


> Thanks, Nancy. I will be doing that. One question I posted above...I do have a special someone who will be coming into town in a couple weeks and will be living with me for a time. That person has never met Lanee or Rogan. So how should I approach that for success?


I'd go very slow with the dogs one at a time off your property. Calm, indifferent interaction. Just letting them see you together consistently.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's feedback. My main goal is success and to make sure things like this do not repeat themselves. I will implement many of the suggestions offered. Thank you all for taking time to speak your minds.


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## Jake78 (Feb 24, 2012)

From all I've ever read of shepherds, heard from trainers and owning them, they're not generally "people dogs." They deeply love their own people, but they don't want to know or care about other people, they're supposed to be aloof. And that's one of the things I love about the breed. I think it was just too much stimulation for your dog, and he nipped, he could have ripped into her arm, but he didn't which tells me it was just a nervous reaction. All trainers I've followed said, when there is a party, crate your dog in a quiet place to minimize their stress. The latest trainer I recently talked to said, this breed is on alert 24/7, that's what they've been bred to do, they're guardians and protectors. Kind of makes sense then that Rogan reacted, he was just being himself. They sound like great dogs


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## rabsparks (May 11, 2013)

Years ago, I had King. He was very protective the house and the yards. But I could walk him around here without a leash. That was until I had a visit from the telephone company repairman. I saw that King was going for him, and I erred in not covering the man but instead tried to get a hold of King. King dodged me and went for the guy.

King ripped his pants, but didn't hurt him otherwise. After that King AND I hired a trainer and worked King every day for months until King would stop on command. The problem was that I expected King to do what I wanted except King had never been properly trained. It took several months of training to make King a good dog.

I reimbursed the repairman for his new jeans and all was well. But since King's demise at the age of fourteen, I've had other GSDs. Some which I could trust and some I couldn't. The ones that I couldn't trust aren't allowed near people even when the dog is on a lead.

I remember having Shali and I could take her anywhere, meet anyone and she was fine. We were at a Rescue picnic when this woman with a toddler in hand walked up to me and asked if Shali was "all right". Shali was a short lead because you never know. I said, "Yes, she's fine." And when the toddler approached Shali, Shali snapped. This was something that I never expected from Shali. But I was fast enough to rein her in, babbling apologies to the woman. To say that I was stunned was an understatement. Shali was the meekest GSD that I ever know. But it just goes to show you that dogs don't always explain what's wrong or what they are thinking.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

To what pghlove and rabsparks said...


I think that was certainly part of it. There were a handful of people in the yard. It was probably overload for Rogan. I know that's part of the equation. As for them being aloof, yes, that is it. My female is very aloof. She is always fine with other people, but keeps her distance. She'll come up to you on her own terms if she wants to. Rogan is aloof, but warms up quickly to most people. Then he's in your lap and will whistle and make all sorts of noises to get affection...lol. 


As to rabsparks, I see both of my GSD's tend to alert on toddlers and babies they see being walked by their parents the same as they alert on another small dog walking by. So I always steer far away from children, not only because of that, but because I know young children are very curious and probably would run up and try to grab one of my GSD's...not good. 


But over the last few days I've been doubling down on obedience training with both of them, particularly while we're on walks. They've been doing stellar, but I'm not letting my guard down anymore and being over cautious with people coming near us. 


Good example: I'm in the process of moving to Florida. The other morning while walking my GSD's, someone I hadn't seen in a long time (and someone my GSD's have never seen before) comes flying around the corner in their car, slams on the brakes, jumps out of their car, and starts running toward me. Both of my GSD's (rightfully so) took up a defensive posture between me and the incoming "friend". I quickly told the person not to run up to me like that, and that person seemed to get offended, but stopped and backed off. The individual wanted to give me a "goodbye hug" before I leave. Now that to me was not smart. I thought for a second I was about to get mugged before I realized who it was. My GSD's stayed quiet the whole time, but kept 110% focus on that person until they drove away, and even then they kept watching the car until it turned the corner.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Do you have proof of the abuse? Lack of socialization is often misinterpreted as 'abuse'. 'Abuse' is also used as a marketing tool since many people like the rescue-effect.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

With the visitor coming- baby gates are great! I start with covering the gates with a light blanket, then work my way up to no blanket and then start eliminating the gates when all body language is calm and the dog has soft eyes and no intensity. 

The gates are ONLY a safe measure if the dog is not seriously aggressive and doesn't challenge the gate! I don't want someone else to come on here and think a baby gate is a good way to introduce an actively aggressive dog to a visitor if the dog doesn't respect the barrier, is untrained, and carries some real aggression that he will act on!

I use this technique when introducing a new dog, too. Also, lots of walks with the new dog or the new person. The situations where you'll have issues with a stranger (I've found) are mostly in the house: stranger walking by the dog when dog is resting, stranger coming in the door when dog is home, and stranger being in the house when the dog walks in, or if you are all sitting and the stranger gets up to leave, bathroom, whatever. I always watch those types of situations carefully until the dog shows complete comfort with that person. 

Most of my dogs are insanely friendly with people they know, but one takes his time getting there. Always, always, err on the side of caution. If all else fails, few dogs will bite a person if they turn their back to him and cross their arms and don't move. This is a nice failsafe (that helpers use in training) to know just in case. BUT don't set the dog up to fail.


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