# What to order? What to ask for?



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

So the folks agreed to buy me a freezer for Christmas, and it seems Christmas may come early this year.









I was wondering what to buy to fill it up though. I was feeding TOTW in the morning and raw at night, I kept having trouble with food so we stopped raw for about and week and just kibble so I could get rid of the bag.

He has already eaten a bit of variety, but I think my problem was the ratio of meat to bone. He was getting quarters for RMB and then chicken breasts for MM. but the chicken quarters weren't very bony. (not like backs and necks)

He has had:
Chicken quarters, skinless and skinned
Turkey necks
Chicken breasts, boneless skinless
Ground turkey
Ground beef (80/20) (not lately but I used mix it with his kibble)
Canned Mackerel
Canned Salmon
Raw eggs
Canned pumpkin
Plain yogurt

Suppliments:
Fish Oil 1000mg Capsules (3 a day, unless feeding fish, than just one or two depending on amount fed)
Vitamin E 400iu Capsules 3-4x a week 

I also plan on following the nutritional spreadsheet that Natalie made and I plan on feeding potatoes(white and sweet) a mixed fruit puree and a mixed veggie puree to give extra vitamins and nutrients (not necessary, but it makes me feel better...so)

i will still be making one more purchase at the grocery store before my gorgeous freezer comes. i was going to get chicken backs and chicken breasts for dinners and turkey necks and ground turkey for breakfasts. (I noticed when I took the turkey out and let it thaw in the fridge for a day, it would be brown/paleish by the time I used it, is that okay?) Is this okay, or should I start from square one again? Also for those of you that feed raw and add in other food, how do I compensate calorie wise for added carbs, protein, and fat? Also... can I mix proteins at dinner yet? Like ground beef and Chicken backs? I know he enjoys beef more than poultry, but I have been staying with that since its cheaper and you all said to stick with one.

On a side note.... When I went in last weekend to get Dakota weighed, he was 80lbs (down 1lb) and the vet tech that helped us said, "His coat is so soft! What are you feeding him? Whatever it is keep it up! And what clean teeth!" I was so proud....









Back on topic... it is still to early to branch out? I would like to see what cuts the butcher has that are well priced. Are there any beef bone that are considered RMB? Anything I should ask for besides what is already listed above? I was planning on seeing if the seafood shop in town has good deals on seafood for him. What fish should I be looking for? I saw Elizabeth feeds Tilapia, anything else?


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I would say maybe take a few days of just chicken to get your pup back on the diet and, if he re-transitions well, then I would add in the beef and turkey since he should be able to tolerate it just fine.

For ideas about what to feed check out this thread:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=306333&page=1#Post306333

It's the one in which people list their dogs' menus. It may help you get an idea of what other kinds of food you can feed. You could try ground lamb, bison, ostrich... anything! Ask the butcher what he has and go from there; anything is game! You could also consider trying pork. It was a definite no-go for Jerzey put many board members feed it without any problem

I haven't heard of many beef RMBs... _maybe_ ribs but, for the most part, the bones are too hard.

Quarters are VERY meaty. Sometimes I would just use those as a meal for Jerzey without any added MM because there was already just so much meat on them. You could try cutting a bit of the meat off and saving it to add to a meal in which you use turkey neck or chicken back as the RMB.

And, woohoo! to your vet story. Very exciting.









I hope this helps a bit.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I used to feed quarters A LOT before I found a raw supplier and had to buy from the grocery stores. Now that I have one, I tend to stay away from them...the meat and bone ratio confuses me. 

The supplier I use is in Dothan. She delivers to the Montgomery area once a month for free. I wonder if she does the same for your area or somewhere close? Here's their website: http://www.wholesomehound.com/ and her name is Anna (ironically!) I'm sure she'd be able to help out. She does a lot of delivery for rescues and such.

They have a good mix of meats, my order coming in Saturday consists of turkey, quail, sardines, chicken, lamb, rabbit and tripe and should last us 2.5 months...or 200lbs of meat for about $190.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

Congrats on your freezer! 

Sometimes its the overall fat content that can mess them up not the meat/bone ratio. In other words, in my opinion just b/c they have loose stool doesn't mean feed more bone. Most diets are far surpassing what is needed for calcium and adding more doesn't make sense to me. Instead I reduce overall fat content and this is one of the reasons I don't feed chicken as it is just too fatty.

One item mine adore and works nice is beef heart.

I would make sure though that whatever you want to order in bulk that he likes it first or you may end up with food you cannot use. Some here have learned that the hard way.

The color of the turkey is fine. Probably just what happens when its exposed to air.

I would probably start with one protein and build from there. But there is no right or wrong answers on this, it's all up the the dog. But too much variety too soon can cause problems and if you have a problem and are feeding a lot of different things identifying the problem gets trickier. 

I don't understand the compensation of calories question.

I only feed canned fish.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

The calorie thing was pertaining to this. if I am feeding X amount of Calories with Chicken, Turkey, eggs.... When I add in other foods like Potatoes, pumpkin, fruit, yogurt.... the amount of calories increases. So how do I know how much of the meat portion to "shave off" to account for the added Calories by the additional food?


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

A calorie is a calorie regardless of whether it comes from meat, veggies or grains. So if you were replacing one for another it would be equal. 

In my diets I feed potatoes- main reason being I need calories with no fat. Meeting their caloric needs with meat only produced loose stool unless I over fed bone/calcium which I wasn't comfortable with doing, so I fill the gap with taters with the bonus that it adds my needed potassium to the diet.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: natalie559A calorie is a calorie regardless of whether it comes from meat, veggies or grains. So if you were replacing one for another it would be equal.
> 
> In my diets I feed potatoes- main reason being I need calories with no fat. Meeting their caloric needs with meat only produced loose stool unless I over fed bone/calcium which I wasn't comfortable with doing, so I fill the gap with taters with the bonus that it adds my needed potassium to the diet.



This is where I use sweet potato (my bonus is Vitamins C & A , Potassium and Magnesium







) . I can get boxes of sweet potatoes for relatively inexpensive and I just cook up batches of them at a time. When I don't have sweet potato, I use canned pumpkin. I don't want to fill up my kids with carbs, but they run A LOT (they're both very zoomy,and when they're not running, they're wrestling), and my GSD pup is a working dog, so he needs calories just to burn -- in addition to those he's using to grow with. 



> Quote:Sometimes its the overall fat content that can mess them up not the meat/bone ratio. In other words, in my opinion just b/c they have loose stool doesn't mean feed more bone. Most diets are far surpassing what is needed for calcium and adding more doesn't make sense to me. Instead I reduce overall fat content and this is one of the reasons I don't feed chicken as it is just too fatty.


I do feed chicken. But not by itself. I mix it with bison and turkey necks, which are both low in fat. 

I think Natalie is right. If you loiter around here long enough, you'll find that many GSDs don't do well with fatty diets. With my last GSD, I had to peel ALL of the skin off of chicken. With Celo, I just have to mix my chicken half and half with low-fat meat. 

But he has an intolerance to beef, which I think comes more from the fat level than beef protein itself. And there's no way I can feed him straight chicken. 

What works for some dogs won't work for yours. What works for yours may not work for mine. The great thing about a raw diet is that we can totally customize it to what each of our dogs needs. But we have to understand what works for our dogs. There is no single recipe that works best. Some dogs actually do well with potatoes, quinoa (I've fed this as part of my bland diet lots of times) or gasp! even small amounts of grains like oatmeal (be sure to cook them). Experiment and see what works best for your pup.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom or gasp! even small amounts of grains like oatmeal (be sure to cook them).


Segal mentions that a handful of her clients do do better with a small amount of grain added to the diet. The dogs had a fuller coat with grain, she mentions golden retrievers specifically.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

Little update. The added grains made a huge change to the poop department. One night we didn't have anything on hand so when bf fed him, didn't think it would matter much. Well he go the runs the next morning, and I got the ...."I know you want whats best for the dog, but he can't keep having problems like this" talk. Well needless to say, when I started adding mashed potatoes/brown rice to his food, he had great nice firm poos. Which makes me very happy. He is quite messy with his rice though. And enjoys the potatoes better, so I will be keeping with that and oatmeal. Now I just need to order everything....And get my freezer up here.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)




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