# Misdirected aggression at the door, today resulted in a fight.



## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm at a loss on how to fix this problem. When DH and I are out of the house, Angus and Freyja have free reign (with a few rooms gated off). They behave and don't destroy anything. We have been working with the dogs to be calm when we get home and have made remarkable progress, with one exception. If somebody such as UPS stops by our house when we are not home, the dogs are extremely amped up when we get home and do not calm down until we enter the house. When they are this worked up Freyja sometimes will snap at Angus, which today resulted in a full fight. I had to force open the door to break the fight up. Both dogs were punished and reprimanded as a result. They are currently lying side by side cleaning each other's wounds.

This only happens when we have a delivery. I try to schedule deliveries for days when we are home, but 99% of the time the delivery is from a relative or is something that we didn't know was coming. Thus we have no control over the delivery. How do I bring calm back to our house when the delivery man comes? I don't want to resort to crating Freyja, as this happens maybe once a month. If there is no delivery, both dogs greet us by lying on the carpet and getting up to give kisses only when we release them. I am so frustrated with this situation. 

Any suggestions or advice?


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

What do the dogs do when UPS makes a delivery and you are home?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yes. Crate one of the dogs while you are gone. Or crate both of them. 

One is male and one is female?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Is it possible to put them in different rooms?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I would concentrate on the male, if he doesn't react to her in his face, half the battle is won.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

When the UPS man comes they bark at him and keep intense focus. Once they realize he's left the yard they calm down and resume their normal activity...at least that's what happens when I'm home. 

Yes it is a male and a female. The female starts the issue. 

Separate rooms are not an option, those two are so attached that they will destroy the house to get to each other. Crates have a similar problem. They spend their time trying to figure out how to free each other. They are a wreck when they are not together. This only further complicates issues. The only time they are comfortable being separated is if Angus is with DH and Freyja is with me. They each have their person and are only willing to leave each other if it is for one-on-one time with their person.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Caitydid255 said:


> Crates have a similar problem. They spend their time trying to figure out how to free each other. They are a wreck when they are not together.


Even when they are crated side-by-side?
Sheilah


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Any way to limit their ability to see the UPS guy? Confine them to an area of the house that does not have line of sight if the front? A back bedroom? 


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

Caitydid255 said:


> When the UPS man comes they bark at him and keep intense focus. Once they realize he's left the yard they calm down and resume their normal activity...at least that's what happens when I'm home.


You should try to desensitize them to the UPS man, and counter-condition them to do something else when he comes. If you can find some way to simulate the experience (a pretend UPS man), and work on keeping them calm during his visits, then they won't get into the excited state to begin with. It would take a long time and a lot of work.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I would suggest having a separate area for deliveries and a note for where deliveries need to go so they don't amp up the dogs by going to the door. Downside, this would make it more obvious to thieves there may be something awesome in the package. Do you have a neighbor that can accept packages for you (one that you trust of course) when you're not at home?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Buy better crates.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

selzer said:


> Buy better crates.


The simplest solution is often the best.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Zookeep said:


> The simplest solution is often the best.


I think that has to be my all-time shortest post.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

selzer said:


> I think that has to be my all-time shortest post.


It's like name that tune. I can solve your problem in three words.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Zookeep said:


> It's like name that tune. I can solve your problem in three words.



:wild: Name that tune -- are we from the same generation???


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

selzer said:


> :wild: Name that tune -- are we from the same generation???


Are you asking if I am old too?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Zookeep said:


> Are you asking if I am old too?


 Old? or young. Is the glass half empty or half full?

Yeah, you're right, half-full sounds good on paper, but deep down inside we are mostly half-empty people, and yeah, I was wondering you you are old like me?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Zookeep said:


> You should try to desensitize them to the UPS man, and counter-condition them to do something else when he comes. If you can find some way to simulate the experience (a pretend UPS man), and work on keeping them calm during his visits, then they won't get into the excited state to begin with. It would take a long time and a lot of work.


My UPS guys run up, standard uniform of sunglasses & hat,drop off a big box and run away. 
The dogs think their barking is what makes him run away. It is a very difficult thing to desensitize a dog to someone that is doing what the UPS guys do. Especially when their trucks are heard blocks away.
We have deliveries often and have asked them to leave the packages on the side of the garage, but seldom is it the same guy, or it is fed ex or other service. My nephew is a fed ex guy and has been bitten more than a few times by dogs that aren't contained. He's contracted by fed ex and doesn't make the $ he should for what he does!
I understand the misdirected aggression, Onyx will do it to Kacie whenever there is action happening. Onyx will go for Kacie.


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## Zookeep (May 17, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> My UPS guys run up, standard uniform of sunglasses & hat,drop off a big box and run away.
> The dogs think their barking is what makes him run away. It is a very difficult thing to desensitize a dog to someone that is doing what the UPS guys do. Especially when their trucks are heard blocks away.
> We have deliveries often and have asked them to leave the packages on the side of the garage, but seldom is it the same guy, or it is fed ex or other service. My nephew is a fed ex guy and has been bitten more than a few times by dogs that aren't contained. He's contracted by fed ex and doesn't make the $ he should for what he does!
> I understand the misdirected aggression, Onyx will do it to Kacie whenever there is action happening. Onyx will go for Kacie.


Yes, I know. The theory is easy, but it is very difficult to do in practice. I am working on desensitizing to Lila to other dogs. We go to the park and I make her sit when the other dogs are 50 feet away, and then out of nowhere, someone comes up from behind me with a dog, or someone has a dog off leash charging her, and it really messes with the training. 

The trainers all suggest it, but I wonder if any of them have actually had to do if for real with a dog.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Police K9 Equipment Military K9 Working Dog Equipment - Crates


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Crate. If they are that worked up, even separating them in different rooms may lead to extreme destruction.

Crate. I don't really understand why people are opposed to crates, especially when their dogs are physically injuring each other. Once a month is once a month too much. Trust me, I understand a destructive crate destroyer. We eventually had to buy a very large sturdy crate meant for great danes to house our husky. Once we had a crate that he physically couldn't get out of, he stopped trying.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I agree with the crates - introducing them carefully and positively - wow, we get awesome (safe) things in our crates! 

I would also consciously work on this whole "they can't be apart" "they have their own person" thing because...it's important. I would switch out handlers, go on separate walks, take training classes with them, whatever - I let my dogs hang out together, they all have bonds with each other so I am not coming at it from a dogs should not have other dog friends angle, but I need to be able to take 1 dog and have the rest settle and not get their stomachs in a knot/freak out. Not healthy for them mentally or physically. 

Zookeep - you need (ha - I say it like it's so easy) to go somewhere that is more contained with people who know what you are doing and the appropriate dogs to work her around. I have used my Bella for stuff like this as she doesn't want to meet other dogs - not in an aggressive way, just in a "Meh" way!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm not really comfortable with the fact that they are so obsessively attached to each other, but if you aren't able to work on that aspect, I would.....

- Not get deliveries at home (use a work address, family member's address, etc)
- Block off both dogs' access from the front of the house so that if there is someone ringing the doorbell (can't control everyone even if you don't get deliveries) the dogs are not right at the front door or windows
- Install a fence and use a locking gate across your walkway


The misdirected aggression stuff is not all that rare, I've seen it a few times with my own dogs but I just say "hey!" and it has never escalated. If one dog is now picking fights, it's just not fair to leave them together unsupervised if you cannot absolutely control who has access to your front door.

Also I think it's high time they learn to function apart. What if something happens to one of them? Or one gets injured or sick and needs to be on crate rest? I think you'd be doing yourself a big favor dealing with this now, plus you can avoid further fights over the door.


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