# Zoe bit my Pomeranian



## rebelsgirl (May 19, 2005)

A week ago we went camping at the Texas Coast. We took the Pom and Zoe both, as we used to do with our past GSD and Pom. 

We had just gotten back from shopping, we took both dogs because we left them in their crates on one trip and Zoe chewed thru the bottom of her crate and chewed up the padding on a seat in the camper. We were afraid to leave her alone again.

Anyways, we got back from shopping, I sat Rascal down for him to get a drink and out of no where, Zoe comes up and grabs him by the head and lifts him up off the ground. No barking, growling, nothing. But she wouldn't let go of him. I had to put my fingers in her mouth and pry her jaws open. 

Rascal is ok thank goodness. He got away with lacerations above his eye. It was a close call for his eye and lacerations on his ear, and a sore neck.

We thought it might be due to the tranq the vet gave us for the dogs for the long drive. It was acepromazine. It said it can cause adverse affects of aggression in Reactive fearful dogs. 

She has lived with us for over 6 months now, side by side with her older pomeranian brother and all they've ever done is play. 

I really don't know what to make of it. Trainer said she was over threshold, and I tend to believe that, because I can see it in class, especially about 45 min into class, she gets this way.

Now I have to get a basket muzzle for her because I'm not sure she will do it again.

I'm wondering if any of you had this happen before, and if so, I wondered if there could be some kind of schedule where I let her out without her muzzle while the pom is put up. What would be a healthy schedule for both dogs?

Thanks!
Kim & Zoe


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

My pom mix and GSD bitch got into a few small scuffles, but that GSD was rock solid and obeyed me very, very well. She and the pom lived together fine with supervision, that really does not sound like your situation though.

Do you have a yard? If you do, I very highly recommend putting a safe kennel in. Concrete bottom, top (to keep rain and direct sun out), and sturdy material. Rotating the dogs every few hours between out and in. It is not cheap, but it's very worth it to keep your pom alive and your dogs out of a small crate for hours. They would also get more stimulation outside, get to hear birds and see other animals and smell, whereas in a room or crate they really have nothing to keep their minds busy. One or both can be crated at night in the house. What I did was crate the big girl in another room (the aggressor) and had the pom loose in my room with he door shut. 

I'd get interactive toys like kongs and those balls that drop a small treat every few rolls in makes to put in the kennel if you do that.

As for the muzzle... It make keep her from BITING the pom, but she can still crush her, hit her hard with her head/muzzle... Badly damage her. I wouldn't see an issue using a muzzle with two big dogs not getting along, but the size difference here is vast.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Here is kind of the type of kennel I was talking about. Top, safe bottom, good materials.
http://billetbarns.com/images/Kennels/AK02b.jpg


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

Hmmmmm, could have been the drugs, could have been the long drive and being left alone in her crate in the camper ... hard to see into their minds now and then. 

Glad to hear your Pom is Ok ...


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## rebelsgirl (May 19, 2005)

Thank you for the replies.

Zoe does her OB very well, while in training, but in real life situations, when she is over threshold and reactive, I might as well be talking to a brick wall.

I have a mesh muzzle on her now, I know it's not completely safe but they are supervised when they are out together now. But she is doing well with it till she gets her wire basket muzzle. They still play together, tug of war, things like that. 

They have a treat ball that drops treats out of it, which Zoe can use but Rascal can't because he's overweight. They also have some bones you can stuff peanut butter into. I don't really like those because they can break off if chewed.. I will check into the Kongs, I think they make small and large ones. That'd be perfect.

Rascal weighs about 9 pounds and isn't a toy or anything but still small I know. She hasn't tried to crush him or hurt him in any way tho since biting him. So with the muzzle, I feel safe with her around him. I crate the pom when Zoe is doing her Intermediate OB training at the house. Because she has a halti on but not always on lead.

We are building them a run but not as fancy or expensive as the one showed. I can't put Rascal in it, it's only for them to go pee and do their business in when we let them outside supervised. We have hawks out here that try to take away small animals. So I'd be scared to leave him out there by himself. We also have a bobcat running round our neighborhood, and we have copperheads out here too. (we live in the country) I see the Kennel you showed are completely fenced which would make it a lot safer for the pom, except the snake problem. The temps are in the 100's in the shade and they are both black coated dogs. Mornings aren't much better.. in the high 80's.

What I've been doing is leaving Zoe out in the morning, doing her training, then putting her muzzle on and letting them interact for a few hours, then I put Zoe up, and let Rascal out. The thing is, when I do let them out together or separate, they go lay down.. lol just like they do in their crates!

I dunno, I'll hopefully work something out and the basket muzzle will give me a better idea how her temperment is. It'll be quite a while before they are together with no muzzle, if ever.

She is so reactive and I am hoping with the training she is doing it will get better with time.

Again, than you for all the replies, if anyone has any other suggestions, I am happy to hear them!

Kim & Zoe


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

You are doing good... Just be so vigilant, because of the size difference all it would take is one good bite and the pom could be severely hurt/dead. Only takes a second to go from play to eat-the-pom.

I meant that if they were to get into a scuffle she could crush him, not that she'd just try to crush him at any time.. when you have a dog like her, if it was her and not the meds, it's not like they're on the constant attack. They can be great buddies for days, weeks ect and then something will click in her head and a fight will occur. 

I hope it was the meds, make life easier for you...

Yuck, I didn't see your location... That's no good for a small dog, you're right.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My 10 month old GSD grabs my Mini Doxie by the head all the time. When he does, she squeals. She is is personal squeaky toy. Hondo was here first as a puppy, Maggie came a few months ago as a rescue. She is 5. I tried hard to keep them seperated until one day I noticed that Maggie starts the play. Hondo never hurts her, and has never left a single mark on her. Just a lot of slobber. 

They never play unsupervised, and are never left alone together because of the size issue.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

A wet little dog, heh?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

While I would watch them closely all the time, re-up the NILIF, obedience, etc. for both (in a nice way), I had a foster dog who was given ACE for her transport. She attacked a puppy on the way up from TN. I was not looking forward to having her! She came in, still ACEd (which definitely can have that effect) and tried to go after my male, who gave her a pass. She ended up being kind of snotty,  but mostly sweet, and she was fine with other dogs. I made sure her adopters knew never to give her ACE. It can have the same effect in cats. 

Do the dogs get motion sick? If so, there are better things they can take.


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## rebelsgirl (May 19, 2005)

Thanks for all your replies! I honestly think it was the ACE that caused it now. She has been off her muzzle for weeks now and no incidents thank goodness. They play as usual, tug of war, steal the toy and not one iota of hostility. She was WAY over threshold. 

I'm just starting to learn how to tell when she is over threshold and I'm getting better, and so is she because it's not happening nearly as often. 

No, she will never be given ACE again that's for sure. If she pukes in the car, then she pukes in the car. lol


She will be taking intermediate ob again tho this fall. But that's ok, she should have it down pat this time. She learned all her lessons but she was being too reactive in class. The more she goes, the better she gets tho.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I've experienced real aggression from meds before... When I had my cats neutered, one attacks the other ferociously when I let them together at first... Until the meds wore off completely. I hope that was your problem.


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