# High Ball Drive and Training



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm positive that I can use a ball with Midnite for training and get excellent results. This might sound silly, but I'm not sure how to use it I've always used treats, but this dog has an over the top ball drive. He has a ball 90 percent of the time, if he loses the ball he does not stop looking until he finds it. The other day I was on the couch laying down with Robyn and the couch started moving, he moved us to get to the ball under the couch. He falls asleep with the ball in his mouth, he goes to the bathroom with the ball in his mouth, he puts the ball in his food bowl while he eats, then grabs it when he is done. If he's outside he goes into search mode with his nose to the ground moving fairly quickly in a what I would call almost frantic to find his ball. If I'm doing short sessions or even in class, how do I reward him with the ball? After every successful command he gets the ball for a brief moment and I take if back? Can I use it for focus work? If I do 10 commands, where in that sequence does he get the ball? At the end? I really want to incorporate the ball into training. Any tips would be helpful.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I use a ball for the majority of my training. When my dog does what I ask him to do, then I will throw the ball and he goes and gets it. That is what he loves to do. I don't think I would do ten commands and then give him the ball though. If you are doing obedience then he should get rewarded after he does what you have asked him to do.


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

Midnite sounds just like my boy Dex.

What worked for me was to play fetch after the entire workout.

Sometimes I would break it up and play ball in the middle of

a workout and then resume training. I think it is important 

to reward him with a game of fetch at the end of the entire workout.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Can I use it in class? For example, he does well with heeling, but sometimes loses focus, can I use that ball to keep him focused on me? Since class is continuous I really don't have the time to give him the ball as a reward technically. He is a big boy, 92 pounds and I want to keep him where he is, so slowing down on treats is the start.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd get a ball on string so you can either reward him through tugging and then outing him~ or tossing it(but in a class, tossing it is probably discouraged).

When teaching something with a high ball drive dog, sometimes that brings their drive level too high and they can't think, so using food is recommended to keep the dogs drive state in the thinking zone.

I would keep certain toys for training only. 

Bridget Carlsen has some video clips on engagement and enthusiasm.
She is fairly local to you, worth going to a seminar if you can. 
Michael Ellis's clips are good too. If you can go watch an IPO club train, most everyone uses balls in training, you can see how they reward, the timing, etc.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What onyx said...sometimes when that toy is out, the dog isn't thinking. I noticed this in my boy. He'll just go through the gamut of all the tricks he knows until I finally throw the ball. I moved to a tug toy because I prefer the game to be with me rather than a retrieve which takes the dog away from you and really out of position. Plus...you can't throw a ball in class.

What you need to do is train a marker word. So a "yes" or "good" which means that the dog is doing what you've asked it to do. Then you have a release word. When you say the marker word, the dog knows its doings something correctly. So the dog is in perfect heel position and you say the marker word...after the marker word, ALWAYS comes the reward. The dog should know it WILL get the reward, even if its delayed (could be a very long delay). So once you say the marker word. You can show the reward, throw the reward, whatever you want to do...but the dog should only go get it after its released with the release word. So what I do is, mark with a "yes," take out the tug toy, say "okay" and the dog is allowed to go for the toy and we tug for a few seconds.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I ordered the ball on the rope a couple days ago. I don't want to amp him up, so I have some homework to do. That ball will be for training only.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I also agree while a high ball drive is handy it not always conducive to training in a group obedience class setting. I used a tug toy in class to redirect if I saw Delgado getting bored or fidgety. I could pull it out and have a quiet game of tug without disturbing anyone and still listen to the teacher, also the tug sparked his interest and but not his drive as much as a ball would have.

In another setting I would absolutely use a ball, and a ball on a rope is the best of both worlds.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've used toys and treats for all my dogs' training classes starting with 12 week old puppy class. If it distracts another dog, I offer their handler a ball to use with their dog  It is a bit more difficult to rapidly reward and/or play tug in a smaller space, so I do lots of marker training with food. I use toys more as a "jackpot", let the dog's drive build and cap, then release him into the toy to play tug for 10 seconds or so. I don't like using toys as lures but that's up to you, a lot of people do, I just find it harder to fade and I'd rather have the dog understand focus early on. My ball is usually in my left hand, which the dog can probably smell, but that's on the left side of his face so he's still required to focus forward or to his right on me, depending on what type of heeling we're doing. If we're training outside in a larger space, I prefer to drop the ball, heel the dog around, then release him to snatch up the ball and play tug.


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## Nancy Calloway (May 4, 2014)

*Ball Drive and what to do about it*

Thank God I saw this. My 2 yr old GSD is a ball addict. When I used to reach for the ball after he retrieved it and returned to me he'd grab it first and sometime bite my hand when I reached for the ball on the ground. OR he would paw the ball and break my skin with his claws. This dog otherwise is the perfect dog. We ADORE him. I bought him as a Protection dog from Protectiondogsplus in New Hampshire. Small company and they have great dogs only from Europe. He's a sable one from the Czech Republic and absolutely wonderful. Was trained to work around and with children as well... so he is gentle, sweet, kind, engaging and displays all the lovely qualities you want a gread dog to have UNTIL WE GO TO THE PARK TO EXERCISE WITH THE BALL and he changes personalities! A Ball Warrior! Plus, he clacks his teeth together anxiously but ONLY when he's playing ball. It's from the intensity and anxiety around the ball we think. We are in NC and hired a new trainer to help us primarily because HE IS NOT SAFE to be around children because one might pull out a ball one day and we could have a law suit on us. Or if we were to go to the park and someone ELSE starts to play ball with him he could bite THEM. PROGRESS! His biting is not out of anger agression; it's from intensely wanting that ball and as the trainer says NO IMPULSE CONTROL. Here is what we did- are doing. We got a ballwith a rope from a company called Hallmark-- on the net. Best ball ever. Tennis ball size on a great rope. Yellow ish and red. I have ordered 3 more. The loop rope enables you to throw the ball very far. We throw the ball and when we returns and sits (he came trained to do that) I say Ausse and he is SUPPOSED to drop it. But he doesn't. So we use the e-collar which I HATE and he ausses it. Each time he clacks we give a correction and say AUSSE simultaneously. And we slow the game down exponentially. We wait about 15 seconds while he STARES at the ball withOUT clacking. He has learned that not clacking is part of Aussing the ball. If he mouths the ball or paws it he gets corrected w the e-collar. This worked FAST. Then I pick up the ball by the rope slowly, stand there holding it by the rope, in front of him, sort of to tease him to build his self control and after about 10 seconds I say, YES. But not with excitement. And we throw the ball. This is our "new" training. YES means "Here is your reward" -- and we throw the ball and he makes a mad dash, and returns with it. We do this about 4 or 5 times and then pocket the ball and walk in the park. (We have our Golden Retrieve with us too.) This is to ensure that too much intensity around the ball does not escalate with too many repetitions of throwing/ fetching which seems to BUILD in intensity. We have been doing this for about 6 weeks and it has made tremendous difference. We are still working with the trainer on other creative ways to play with him so that we change the routine so he has to THINK more and not get bored. I hope this helps others. 
I have to say that today he totally fell off the wagon and was so BAD I swore no more ball! I am going to not play ball for about 4 to 5 days. he WAS doing so well. Something is going on cosmically perhaps!  I cannot figure it out. Maybe he was just having a bad day. good luck to everyone.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Nancy Calloway said:


> Thank God I saw this. My 2 yr old GSD is a ball addict. When I used to reach for the ball after he retrieved it and returned to me he'd grab it first and sometime bite my hand when I reached for the ball on the ground. OR he would paw the ball and break my skin with his claws. This dog otherwise is the perfect dog. We ADORE him. I bought him as a Protection dog from Protectiondogsplus in New Hampshire. Small company and they have great dogs only from Europe. He's a sable one from the Czech Republic and absolutely wonderful. Was trained to work around and with children as well... so he is gentle, sweet, kind, engaging and displays all the lovely qualities you want a gread dog to have UNTIL WE GO TO THE PARK TO EXERCISE WITH THE BALL and he changes personalities! A Ball Warrior! Plus, he clacks his teeth together anxiously but ONLY when he's playing ball. It's from the intensity and anxiety around the ball we think. We are in NC and hired a new trainer to help us primarily because HE IS NOT SAFE to be around children because one might pull out a ball one day and we could have a law suit on us. Or if we were to go to the park and someone ELSE starts to play ball with him he could bite THEM. PROGRESS! His biting is not out of anger agression; it's from intensely wanting that ball and as the trainer says NO IMPULSE CONTROL. Here is what we did- are doing. We got a ballwith a rope from a company called Hallmark-- on the net. Best ball ever. Tennis ball size on a great rope. Yellow ish and red. I have ordered 3 more. The loop rope enables you to throw the ball very far. We throw the ball and when we returns and sits (he came trained to do that) I say Ausse and he is SUPPOSED to drop it. But he doesn't. So we use the e-collar which I HATE and he ausses it. Each time he clacks we give a correction and say AUSSE simultaneously. And we slow the game down exponentially. We wait about 15 seconds while he STARES at the ball withOUT clacking. He has learned that not clacking is part of Aussing the ball. If he mouths the ball or paws it he gets corrected w the e-collar. This worked FAST. Then I pick up the ball by the rope slowly, stand there holding it by the rope, in front of him, sort of to tease him to build his self control and after about 10 seconds I say, YES. But not with excitement. And we throw the ball. This is our "new" training. YES means "Here is your reward" -- and we throw the ball and he makes a mad dash, and returns with it. We do this about 4 or 5 times and then pocket the ball and walk in the park. (We have our Golden Retrieve with us too.) This is to ensure that too much intensity around the ball does not escalate with too many repetitions of throwing/ fetching which seems to BUILD in intensity. We have been doing this for about 6 weeks and it has made tremendous difference. We are still working with the trainer on other creative ways to play with him so that we change the routine so he has to THINK more and not get bored. I hope this helps others.
> I have to say that today he totally fell off the wagon and was so BAD I swore no more ball! I am going to not play ball for about 4 to 5 days. he WAS doing so well. Something is going on cosmically perhaps!  I cannot figure it out. Maybe he was just having a bad day. good luck to everyone.


Newlie also has a high ball drive and when we first got him, he would get so excited about his ball that sometimes he would accidently hurt my hands when he took it. So, one of the first things I did was to start training him on the command "no teeth." It sounds silly, I know, but he has learned through the force of repetition what that means. If he is really excited, I might look him in the eye and say "Easy" first before "no teeth." I also used treats to help re-inforce the command. I took a medium size treat and gradually reduced the size over time until I was holding a dot in my fingers and he got so he would kind of pull his teeth back or just use his tongue to lick it out of my hand. He is so trustworthy now that I can put a small treat between my lips and he will remove without hurting me.


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## Ruby'sMom (May 25, 2014)

I use the ball on rope before and after class. I get Ruby tired by playing fetch with it on a long lead. We then play tug after class. She knows it's her reward. I also use it for heel work and high distractions. Great tool!


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## bob_barker (Dec 31, 2013)

I do both ball and treats. 
I do treats and then every few rewards I will throw the ball to the ground and let him grab it, or kick it around a bit and make it a game.


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