# the social hierachy of leashes/collars



## x11

so drove 3 hours to some gsd shindig, people with loud suits everywhere. put the dog on nylon collar and flexi-leash and walked into the joint, i swear folks took more notice of my leash & collar than my dog. i got asked by head honcho lady (why is it always women that organise and run these things) to use a real leash and lose the flexi, was my dog out of control - no, i asked why for? i didn't bring another leash (i love the flexi-leash), she said "well a woman in america lost her fingers using a flexi-leash" and that they "look unprofessional" and "we project a proffesional image at this club". i'm like gee, a lady in america lost her fingers and then raised both hands (palms in) wriggled my fingers and less than subtley lowered all except the middle fingers on each hand.

thought it wasn't going anywhere productive so bundled dog in truck and i guess the bleeding heart guy in the club followed me out and said hey nice dog why don't you come back in and pulled out a flat 6 foot leather leash and said here you can use this. i looked at his bright red safari suit and said thanks man but i don't think this is my scene and left.

i got to thinking that there is a social hierachy re leashes and collars that goes something like;

top of the social ladder you have the round braided from natural fibres of highly endangered tree-climbing jungle mountain camels favoured by the high falutin save the rainforest types in a fat white people join my religion and i will give you a free television set - oh you don't have electricity how cute condescending kind of way.


followed by the hand-made by amish fifth generation puppy millers flat 6 foot leather leash crowd


below that and a looooong way below that is the standard white trash nylon leash

and at the botom of the ladder is the flexi-lead crowd 

so what's up with the flexi-lead to attract such scorn of the cool kids, i think they are the greatest invention going, i love em. even designing one to work off a harness for bite-work and tracking, am i missing the point?


----------



## Wolfgeist

The problem with the flexi lead?

An aggressive dog shot out at me and Hunter on our walk today without the owner even paying attention from across the way. The dog had all the line to get right in Hunter's face. THAT is the problem with the flexi, IMO.


----------



## arycrest

I honestly can't answer your question, but I can tell you why I look down on that type of leash and their handlers. 

So many people, especially with those little ankle bitters, seem to use flexi leashes and abuse them, allowing their little darlings to run with the leads fully extended regardless of the situation. I know I look down on people who use them solely because I've run into so many idiots that I just associate flexi leads with people who don't know what they're doing. So in my case, I stereo type people who use the flexi leads into one nice little package.


----------



## x11

fair enough but the problem with stereotyping......


----------



## arycrest

x11 said:


> fair enough but the problem with stereotyping......


I can't argue with that ... I know stereotyping is wrong BUT after being exposed to so many people who use the flexi lead indiscriminately, I've ended up a Flexi-Lead Bigot. :blush:


----------



## x11

and the problem with biggotry........jk


----------



## Sunflowers

Are you serious?
You use a Flexi?


----------



## x11

anyhoo cos it's ok to stereotype and be a biggot i think ALL people that use prongs/e-collars are cruel people that enjoy inflicting pain on animals and they are too lazy to learn how to actually train a dog and too physically incapable of handling the dog they got and should not be allowed to own any animal.


----------



## gsdsar

I use a Flexi leash when hiking. But for a big event I use a regular lead. 

I don't like the Flexi in big groups or public places. Too easy to let a dog go without control. 

Had I been you, I would have taken the leash and gone back in, not been offended. Someone made a friendly gesture if inclusion and I would have taken it instead if feeling slighted. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sunflowers

x11 said:


> fair enough but the problem with stereotyping......


Your initial post is full of stereotyping, dude...


----------



## Dainerra

many dog events don't allow flexi-leads on the premises because of the lack of control. Even if you are watchful, they can easily malfunction and allow the dog to take off to the full extent of the line. 
Also, if the dog is farther away from you and wraps around someone else, they can cause some serious injuries.
as for all of the other leash "types" you posted, I find more that people use whatever lead fits their purpose at the time. A show lead if you are in a conformation show. A flat lead (leather is often used because it is more durable and easier on your hands than nylon).
Nylon is easy to clean and lightweight when you are grabbing something for a quick potty trip.
Slip leads are easy to slip on and off when you do an agility trial or other event that doesn't let the dog perform with a collar on for safety reasons.


----------



## x11

Sunflowers said:


> Are you serious?
> You use a Flexi?


yes mam, i'm out, loud and proud, been keeping it bottled up too long;


i, the x11 uses a flexi, let those without sin cast the first stone!!


----------



## Dainerra

I use a flexi when hiking or at the lake. but not in public. Seen them break too many times - either the line will get worn and snap or the button breaks


----------



## Sunflowers

x11 said:


> yes mam, i'm out, loud and proud, been keeping it bottled up too long;
> 
> 
> i, the x11 uses a flexi, let those without sin cast the first stone!!


A flexi leash is fantastic when your pup is young, to let him explore in the yard, and to teach him to come.

But over six months, there is no way you can fully keep control of the dog on one of those things. By the time you push the button, reel him in, push the button, reel him in, you lose it. It takes too long.

Even when Hans was younger, I had a few close calls with that thing, nearly cutting my flesh severely. Also, having him yank the handle right out of my hand, but this was in the yard. The handle then became a projectile, almost hitting him as it hurtled forward.

I gave it away.
When I want him to have lots of freedom, I use a 30 foot lead.


----------



## onyx'girl

I would blame the handler, not the equipment. If the dog is trained well, no reason a flexi can't be used. It is the dog with no control which causes the problems.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I guess I'm looking at it like this, you go into this place where no one knows "you" or "your dog", and vice versa.

How do they know you are in control of your dog and not some wahoo that's walking in with their dog on a flexi who may at any moment, decide to "zing" off and hit the end of the flexi? 

As you apparently didn't like them asking you to use a leash, apparently they didn't like you using a flexi. 

I didnt' see it as 'stero typing' you, yet you sure threw enough insults about them. 

I guess I don't see why you think it was such a big deal that they asked you to use a leash vs the flexi. 

It' doesn't require much to say " I prefer using a flexi and with that I don't think this is a good fit for me", vs being a wise butt. 

They probably liked you about as much as you liked them.


----------



## x11

onyx'girl said:


> I would blame the handler, not the equipment. If the dog is trained well, no reason a flexi can't be used. It is the dog with no control which causes the problems.


 
yay an enlightened member!!!

it's called T R A I N I N G

check this amazing concept; RETURN TO HEEL - RECALL

if you rely on a leash to gain control of yr dog that dog is not ready to be out in public and you will prolly go straight to the e/prong as a solution and get on forums justifying how great the e/prong is and has allowed yr dog to share more of yr life with you and they are only a tool like a hammer can be used to hammer nails or beat someones skull in - it all about how you use it blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Sunflowers

onyx'girl said:


> I would blame the handler, not the equipment. If the dog is trained well, no reason a flexi can't be used. It is the dog with no control which causes the problems.


Yeah, but this particular equipment has problems. I, too, have had one snap, and that was when I owned a Pekingese.

How can you have a dog maintain a proper heel on a leash that has constant tension and is held with one hand?


----------



## x11

you can lock it at a fixed length and then you cannot tell the difference in effect between a flexi and a .....rigid


----------



## MichaelE

You don't make the rules at their club.

If you don't like their rules start your own or move along.

Because you don't like their rules or can't adhere to them is no reason to get pissed at them.


----------



## x11

MichaelE said:


> You don't make the rules at their club.
> 
> .... *or move along*.


 
done did it


----------



## onyx'girl

Like I posted, if the dog is under control(because of the training foundation), the flexi snapping or malfunctioning should be no big deal...you recall your dog to you. 

Flexi's aren't for obedience heeling....they are for recreational use as others posted, while hiking, etc. If x11 shows up in an obedience class, I can see why other lines are suggested.

I still blame the handler not the equipment, because we all know....we see dogs on flexi's often and they look like a toy on the end of a flirtpole in my dogs eyes.


----------



## Sunflowers

x11 said:


> you can lock it at a fixed length and then you cannot tell the difference in effect between a flexi and a .....rigid


It is still not the same thing. The line is too skinny to be able to be grabbed with the other hand, should you need to. Plus that handle is clunky and it's hard to keep control of it.

You can use whatever you want, but you need to understand that when you go to a club, any club, they do expect you to follow the rules everyone follows.


----------



## x11

onyx'girl said:


> If x11 shows up in an obedience class,


 
well the flyer indicated obed and other activities, in truth it was how to get your dog to pose and gait for conformation showing, bit peaved at the misleading ad to be honest - like you see guys in bright red safari suits at most training venues - not.


----------



## onyx'girl

Sunflowers said:


> It is still not the same thing. The line is too skinny to be able to be grabbed with the other hand, should you need to. Plus that handle is clunky and it's hard to keep control of it.
> 
> You can use whatever you want, but you need to understand that when you go to a club, any club, they do expect you to follow the rules everyone follows.


The line I have on my flexi is a 1" nylon. I don't use the cable ones and seldom if ever use the flexi. I wouldn't use it on my reactive dogs, ever.


----------



## Sunflowers

onyx'girl said:


> Like I posted, if the dog is under control(because of the training foundation), the flexi snapping or malfunctioning should be no big deal...you recall your dog to you.
> 
> I still blame the handler not the equipment, because we all know....we see dogs on flexi's often and they look like a toy on the end of a flirtpole in my dogs eyes.


I see more of flexis around here than I do regular leashes.
And most of the time, it's people walking two dogs, each with his or her own Flexi, toy and large breeds, and in between.

Many times, the owners will be on their cell phones, and the dogs are just running amok in front of them.
Not a fan.


----------



## x11

well when i launch my new heavy duty harness/flexi lead combo don't be asking me for no discount**removed**.


----------



## onyx'girl

Right, HANDLER error! Makes the flexi have a bad rep when it is the person holding it screwing up.


----------



## x11

onyx, you are my girl hero....sigh


----------



## Apoolutz

I only use a flexi leash when I take Niko for little strolls, we live in the country so know other people but I would never take him out in public with one on and can't stand when other people use them in public unless of course there kept right beside you but that rarely is seen Especially people with little dogs


----------



## x11

so what now i am a closet toy dog affecionado cos i use a flexi in public??


----------



## wolfy dog

I am sure you status tumbled down quite a ways on this forum only because you use a FL. (just kidding of course). But it sounds like you left the snobs because of their attitude, right? If they had been respectful of you, would you have given in?
On the other hand when I see someone use a FL or see one in the home of a client's dog, it screams, "I don't know anything about training".


----------



## MichaelE

I have nothing against or for them. I don't use one, but I think a GSD deserves a more noble lead than a piece of nylon string on a fishing reel.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Sunflowers said:


> Your initial post is full of stereotyping, dude...


----------



## x11

MichaelE said:


> *I have nothing against or for them. I don't use one, but I think a GSD deserves a more noble lead than a piece of nylon string on a fishing reel.*


 

thats like saying, "why sure i'm down, some of my best friends are...insert minority"


----------



## x11

wolfy dog said:


> * it sounds like you left the snobs because of their attitude, right? If they had been respectful of you, would you have given in?*


 
you may well be on to somethin.


----------



## Dainerra

x11 said:


> you can lock it at a fixed length and then you cannot tell the difference in effect between a flexi and a .....rigid


the problem is that it's too dang easy for that button to break. A few times of locking and unlocking and the button either starts to stick or stops working completely.

It's not always a matter of how well-trained your dog is but of other dogs in the area. Even with a good recall, being able to use two hands on the leash to separate your dog from an attacking dog is not something that you can train.

And I've seen more than a few flashy dressed women (and men) at obedience shows.


----------



## jessac

I have never seen a dog in the heel position when on a flexible. They are usually at the end of that thing running circles around their owners. Is that handler error/ lack of training? Of course. But since that's all I've ever seen at the end of a flexible that would be my first impression of someone using one. I think it's awesome you have control of your dog, but since that is atypical, I think you have to understand where they were coming from. I'd hate to have someone who hasn't trained their dog on a flexi in a training facility and have them lose control. They were just protecting themselves/ their dogs.


----------



## kjdreyer

I'm not gonna join the fray, but your post was pretty funny, esp. the Oh, you don't have electricity part


----------



## AgileGSD

I'm a long time Flexi-user, I think I got my first one in 92  

I have always found the arguments against them kind of silly. They are lockable to very short leashes, you don't have to "have no control" while using them. The Flexi brand ones I have had have been very reliable. I have one right now that's probably 15 years old and still works great. I've tried off brand ones though and have never had good luck with them. 

For obedience class I don't like them because they can be awkward for some exercises. But I wouldn't travel without them


----------



## sitstay

I am trying to wrap my mind around wanting to be taken seriously as an event security K9 team, with real world aggression from the dog, and the use of a flexi-lead. But I guess that context is everything in both situations.
Sheilah


----------



## GatorDog

I'm sorry, I'm blown away by the fact that you actually just said " why is it always women that organise and run these things " and then expect to get any respect from other human beings at all.


----------



## llombardo

jessac said:


> I have never seen a dog in the heel position when on a flexible. They are usually at the end of that thing running circles around their owners. Is that handler error/ lack of training? Of course.


It is very possible to get a dog in a heal position using a flexi, they do lock at any length you want them at. I use them when I'm just running the dogs outside really quick or when hiking. Sometimes I use a 30 ft line, but IMO there is even less control with that. I do not use a flexi at dog events or when in obedience classes.


----------



## onyx'girl

GatorDog said:


> I'm sorry, I'm blown away by the fact that you actually just said " why is it always women that organise and run these things " and then expect to get any respect from other human beings at all.


We all know the answer to that! Women are asked because everyone knows they will get the job done..... sexist? no, reality.


----------



## shepherdmom

> Originally Posted by Sunflowers
> Your initial post is full of stereotyping, dude...





Gwenhwyfair said:


>


Cause my homemade flat leather leashes made out of horse reigns to be longer than a regular lead make me an Amish puppy mill person.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Here ladies, handy for unruly flexi lead boys....













shepherdmom said:


> Cause my homemade flat leather leashes made out of horse reigns to be longer than a regular lead make me an Amish puppy mill person.


----------



## x11

gals, yr getting OT


----------



## mycobraracr

I didn't read all the replies, so sorry if this was already said. 

You have to look at it like this, they don't know you or your dog. So they don't know how well behaved your dog is or how well you can handle him. When you're running a dog even you have to look at the big picture. You have to look out for the safety of everyone and every dog at that even. So not allowing flexi leads is a safety issue. Every dog even I have been to gsd or not has all said no flexi leads for this reason. Better to "offend" a few than to risk an injury to human or dog. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Shaolin

IMHO, Flexi's are just asking for trouble. All it takes is one incident and that's it. The line is just so skinny...Finn hit the end of a tie out and the tie out snapped in the middle. He never broke stride and it was rated for 100+ pounds. That tiny little string or the internal mechanisms wouldn't stand a chance against a good lunge. I would've taken up the offer of the leash and enjoyed the rest of my day.


----------



## x11

i agree if you use a *flexi lead as a tie out* then you are asking for trouble???


----------



## Anitsisqua

x11 said:


> top of the social ladder you have the round braided from natural fibres of highly endangered tree-climbing jungle mountain camels favoured by the high falutin save the rainforest types in a fat white people join my religion and i will give you a free television set - oh you don't have electricity how cute condescending kind of way.


I don't know about you peasants, but I only use a lead hand-woven from the intermingled fibers of the tambalacoque tree and the soft ear fur of newborn Red Wolf pups.

...Kidding aside, it sounds to me like everyone behaved poorly except the kind gentleman who offered to lend you his lead. The one whose wardrobe choice you seem so keen on mocking.


----------



## Switchblade906

Ive never used a Flexi and never will.


----------



## GSDolch

I think both the OP and the person making the comments are at fault for the situation in regards to attitude. /shrug.

Personally, I do NOT like flexi leads at all, and if I do NOT know you, yes I am going to judge you to an extent, get over it. People judge all the time, its human. That also means that my judgement is subject to change based on more information after the fact. That to, is human. If a place has a no flexi rule, then its a no flexi rule, period.


----------



## x11

"Ive never used a Flexi and never will. "


why close yrself off from possibilities, could be the start of something beautiful.


----------



## x11

GSDolch said:


> If a place has a no flexi rule, then its a no flexi rule, period.


 
could they not put that on the flyer instead of just saying "all levels of trainer and their dogs welcome, bring your own chair".


----------



## Switchblade906

x11 said:


> "Ive never used a Flexi and never will. "
> 
> 
> why close yrself off from possibilities, could be the start of something beautiful.


Not possible lol. Those are the most uncontrollable leads and i always keep leash control. Sets a good example for all the other good owners out there.


----------



## GSDolch

x11 said:


> could they not put that on the flyer instead of just saying "all levels of trainer and their dogs welcome, bring your own chair".



/shrugs you'd have to ask them that. Flyers are usually to small to put all of their rules on it.

For me its more common sense to not use one because they've never really been used for training, to dangerous IMO. Use for general walks or hikes or something, sure,but they aren't good for training.


----------



## x11

Switchblade906 said:


> Not possible lol. Those are the most uncontrollable leads and i always keep leash control. Sets a good example for all the other good owners out there.


 
so does having control of your dog with no lead.


in fact at the working venues i seen nobody has any dog on a lead (minus tracking) even in bite work? go figure.


----------



## dogfaeries

IMO flexi-leads have their place. 

I use one at the park, and for x-ing my dogs at the dog shows and at the hotel. 
But I use a leather lead for everything else - in the dog show buildings, and at training class, or any other place that I take my dogs. 

Not sure why you are so married to the idea of a flexi. It's a pretty clunky, awkward piece of equipment.


----------



## Shaolin

x11 said:


> i agree if you use a *flexi lead as a tie out* then you are asking for trouble???


I wasn't using a flexi as a tie out. I was using a cable tie out with a 12" post that was sunken into the ground. I'm just saying, if a 50lb dog at a run can snap a lead ment for 100+ lb dogs at a run, a not even 1/4" thick cord of a Flexi isn't going to stand a chance against a lunging dog. 

Putting any dog on a Flexi, let alone a GSD, is asking for trouble.


----------



## Sunflowers

dogfaeries said:


> Not sure why you are so married to the idea of a flexi. It's a pretty clunky, awkward piece of equipment.


Looks dorky, too.:crazy:


----------



## llombardo

Shaolin said:


> a not even 1/4" thick cord of a Flexi isn't going to stand a chance against a lunging dog.


Where do you get 1/4 inch? Mine over a inch thick and its nylon, not a cord? I have never had one that is cord versus nylon. This is what was on our 120 pound lab that lunged at a pit bull coming at him and his owner, no loss of control and it didn't break...he was a strong dog.


----------



## dogfaeries

Sunflowers said:


> Looks dorky, too.:crazy:


I do feel kind of dorky when I use one to take the dogs out to pee at a hotel. 

Our dog grooming customers love those things. I hate when they bring their dogs in on them. Big dogs, little dogs. Though I do get entertained when their dogs go crazy on them, lol.


----------



## dogfaeries

llombardo said:


> Where do you get 1/4 inch? Mine over a inch thick and its nylon, not a cord?


I have 2 different types. One has a nylon cord, and the other has a flat nylon tape.


----------



## Carriesue

I use a flexi on hikes that require dogs be leashed to give my pup more room to roam, I've tried the longer training leads but they are just awkward to deal with and just as dangerous to deal with as the flexi IMO. Since the training lead doesn't retract back I've had it get very tangled around my dogs legs and me. I also use the flat leash flexi as opposed to the corded one.

I however do not use flexi's in public areas because I do feel like I do not have as much control plus they are harder to hang on to and more cumbersome then a flat leash. And yes I use my braided leather lead in public or crowded areas because the nylon hurts my hands sometimes,they don't last as long and get dirty very quickly.

And frankly I think you were judging them quite a bit more then they were you. I can understand the no flexi leash policy, it's been a rule in every obedience class I've ever taken.


----------



## x11

still wanna know how a 20 foot long line is somehow easier and safer to handle than a same length flexi?

please explain how you use one - or is the unstated point to only use a 6 foot line?


----------



## x11

anitsisqua said:


> *i don't know about you peasants, but i only use a lead hand-woven from the intermingled fibers of the tambalacoque tree and the soft ear fur of newborn red wolf pups.*


 
:d:d:d


are you a witch?


----------



## Shaolin

llombardo said:


> Where do you get 1/4 inch? Mine over a inch thick and its nylon, not a cord? I have never had one that is cord versus nylon. This is what was on our 120 pound lab that lunged at a pit bull coming at him and his owner, no loss of control and it didn't break...he was a strong dog.


All of the Flexi's I've seen have a very thin, tiny cord. It has a flat nylon piece, maybe 8-12" that attaches to the collar, then after the 8", it's a thin cord that goes inside the handle thing. I've never seen one with a thick nylon cord...not saying they don't have them, but I've looked and never seen one.



x11 said:


> still wanna know how a 20 foot long line is somehow easier and safer to handle than a same length flexi?
> 
> please explain how you use one - or is the unstated point to only use a 6 foot line?


Other than on a hike, tracking/trailing, or teaching recall, why would you have the dog out greater than 6ft in public anyways? That and I've never had an issue giving a correction on a 20ft long lead. If Finn is at the end of it, I can either recall him verbally or give him a quick snap. I don't walk on anything longer because there's no need to; he's in a heel at my side on a very loose leash. It's not a perfect heel, but he walks with a loose leash.


----------



## NancyJ

I will make one comment

Flexi is NOT a good idea for tracking. I tried it and wound up flat on my face using a 33 foot heavy duty tape flexi. All I want is for you to video tape your flexi tracking session  

With tracking you want to feel the line and the tension is what communicates between you and the dog. Not the same on a flexi. 

I think the flexi has its place but I use like the others as a recreational tool, not a training tool.


----------



## simba405

flexi leashes arent even comfortable to hold. i dont know why anyone would choose one over a leather leash....


----------



## Shaolin

jocoyn said:


> I will make one comment
> 
> Flexi is NOT a good idea for tracking. I tried it and wound up flat on my face using a 33 foot heavy duty tape flexi. All I want is for you to video tape your flexi tracking session
> 
> With tracking you want to feel the line and the tension is what communicates between you and the dog. Not the same on a flexi.
> 
> I think the flexi has its place but I use like the others as a recreational tool, not a training tool.


LoL! I'm not a tracker by any means. Airscent all the way. If I was a tracker, though, I wouldn't be using a Flexi anyways. A nice, thick leather lead or a nice quality nylon one would be my preference.

I don't know how anyone could be taken seriously in the middle of a track, with a sparkly pink handled Flexi with one of those cutsie little poop bag holders hanging from it. It would make me laugh my butt off.


----------



## Sunflowers

Shaolin said:


> All of the Flexi's I've seen have a very thin, tiny cord. It has a flat nylon piece, maybe 8-12" that attaches to the collar, then after the 8", it's a thin cord that goes inside the handle thing. I've never seen one with a thick nylon cord...not saying they don't have them, but I've looked and never seen one.


It's called the Flexi tape leash.
The handle part is heavy as heck.

Amazon.com: Flexi Comfort 3 Retractable Tape Leash For Dogs Up To 110lbs. grey & black-color: Pet Supplies


----------



## ksotto333

GatorDog said:


> I'm sorry, I'm blown away by the fact that you actually just said " why is it always women that organise and run these things " and then expect to get any respect from other human beings at all.


My thoughts exactly...


----------



## Sunflowers

ksotto333 said:


> My thoughts exactly...


X11 is a jokester.
I see a lot of satire in his posts.


----------



## arycrest

Sunflowers said:


> Your initial post is full of stereotyping, dude...


:thumbup:


----------



## NancyJ

Shaolin said:


> LoL! I'm not a tracker by any means. Airscent all the way. If I was a tracker, though, I wouldn't be using a Flexi anyways. A nice, thick leather lead or a nice quality nylon one would be my preference.
> 
> I don't know how anyone could be taken seriously in the middle of a track, with a sparkly pink handled Flexi with one of those cutsie little poop bag holders hanging from it. It would make me laugh my butt off.


Acutally I am not sure on competitive tracking but I did some trailing and you are moving on that line with a good bit of it behind you to go around trees while maintaining tension. Line handling is an art and there is a lot of communication through that line that would be lost with a flexi.

But I tried tracking (sport, hot dogs, etc.) and the dog went flying, hit the end and pulled me off my feet.


----------



## Chicagocanine

I guess you would hate the winter bazaar fundraiser I go to every year for a local shelter. Not only do they not allow Flexis, they make everyone check their leashes at the door and hand out short 2 or 3 foot leashes to use while you're inside the event. 

After the first year I just started bringing my own traffic (short) lead and when they stop me to switch my leash I show them it's the same length as theirs so I don't have to deal with it.

I sometimes use a Flexi but not in public when other people/dogs will be around. What's the point of usi g the Flexi if you are just going to have the dog constantly in heel or the leash locked like it should be in public? At that point it is just a really awkward to hold leash... I use it when I want my dog to have rom to run, and in a place where it is safe (with a trained dog).
However it is possible to hold it at a short length, at least the one I have has a loop where the end part attaches to the line. If I have my dog at my side I usually hold that loop like a leash handle. Of course the big plastic housing is still awkward.


----------



## Sunflowers

Shaolin said:


> I don't know how anyone could be taken seriously in the middle of a track, with a sparkly pink handled Flexi with one of those cutsie little poop bag holders hanging from it. It would make me laugh my butt off.


Aw, c' mon! You know you secretly covet a smiley Flexi!


----------



## x11

*"I want is for you to video tape your flexi tracking session  *

*With tracking you want to feel the line and the tension is what communicates between you and the dog. Not the same on a flexi"*

right tools for the job, it's like asking to see a video of you playing tug with yr dog while it is wearing a muzzle;

here is one of my tracking vids - $100 says my dogs will find the end of the track before yr champ schuts III dog;


----------



## x11

GatorDog said:


> I'm sorry, I'm blown away by the fact that you actually just said " why is it always women that organise and run these things " and then expect to get any respect from other human beings at all.


 
you assume i meant that in a negative way - i totally dig the ladies.


----------



## Syaoransbear

Some people have dog aggressive dogs, they probably just didn't want to deal with a fight. It's not wrong for them to assume that you would use the flexi-leash for its purpose, which is to allow your dog to wander several feet in front/around you.

Most people who use them use them poorly. Today I watched a shih-tzu almost get smooshed by a car because of a stupid owner using the flexi leash improperly. The dog was on the other side of the street and was clearly fixated on Chrono and barking at him. There were some parked cars blocking his view as we approached, but then once there weren't any parked cars we were parallel with this dog and the dog bolted sideways right into the middle of the street. That idiot should have reeled her dog in when it was pulling and barking at Chrono because obviously when it has 20 feet of line it's going to dart sideways and go right into the middle of the street.


----------



## Dainerra

x11 said:


> could they not put that on the flyer instead of just saying "all levels of trainer and their dogs welcome, bring your own chair".


I think it's because they simply didn't think about it. The thought that someone would bring a dog on a flexi to a dog event likely never crossed their mind. 
Kind of like you were having a fishing tournament, you wouldn't put on the flyer "children must not be allowed to climb on sportsman's boats. Happened here this year at BassMaster. One of the guys turned around to find 4 kids climbing all over his boat, playing with the electronics and banging on things. The average price of one of these boats approaches $100,000, the tournament sponsors never thought that they would have to tell parents that they aren't playground equipment.


----------



## NancyJ

x11 said:


> *"I want is for you to video tape your flexi tracking session  *
> 
> *With tracking you want to feel the line and the tension is what communicates between you and the dog. Not the same on a flexi"*
> 
> right tools for the job, it's like asking to see a video of you playing tug with yr dog while it is wearing a muzzle;
> 
> here is one of my tracking vids - $100 says my dogs will find the end of the track before yr champ schuts III dog;
> 
> 
> 
> track 01 - YouTube


Where is the flexi in that video?

Ok no schuthund dog here - I have done trailing both offlead and onlead with a SAR dog and a little AKC tracking. After some years of doing it several of us came to the conclusion that given old contaminated trails on lead was best but offlead was awesome on a hot trail (and of course a 42 minute old trail is a hot trail)

-- however --

You were talking about taking that and putting it on a flexi? It is exactly that kind of raw power and speed I could not control with a flexi. Seeing as how I have a 5 inch plate in my ankle from another onlead trailing dog with a regular line, I shudder even more to think what else could happen with one of these things.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

I'm not sure if you mean sport vs 'real' working venues but in sport, SchH, I've always been told to use a leash, good quality leather recommended type. When you read threads on this board for recommened SchH training equipment I don't recall any of the experienced people recommending flexi's either. 

In training and at trials I personally have not seen the use of a flexi, in or around the field. Admittedly I'm relatively new at this but *if* they were so popular I would have spotted one or two at a trial or training by now. Additionally while the people at these particular events have mostly very well trained dogs they did have a leash on them....

I've had to use the dang things over the years and have had numerous problems with the jamming, not locking, not reeling in fast enough. 

At the end of the day *most of the general pet owning public* use flexi's because they haven't, don't know how, or are unwilling to train their dogs.

I was at a charity event a couple of weekends ago and they had the same rule, no flexis. I was at some on leash state parks last year, rules clearly stated 6' lead, no flexis. So if you're looking for more places to go and be offended there's a couple more suggestions for you. 

You run with a crowd that is serious about training dogs. Most of us who deal with the general pet owning public understand that most dog owners are NOT into training and when they use the flexi's it causes problems, hence the rules. 

Therefore, it would follow logically and objectively - Given that this reality is highly unlikely to change to suit you I think venues *open to the general pet owning public* are wise to have the no flexi rule.








x11 said:


> so does having control of your dog with no lead.
> 
> 
> in fact at the working venues i seen nobody has any dog on a lead (minus tracking) even in bite work? go figure.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

:spittingcoffee::thumbup:


btw- most people get the fleix's with the thin cords not the tape because they are less expensive. You won't find those heavy duty flexis at Walmart...




Shaolin said:


> I don't know how anyone could be taken seriously in the middle of a track, with a sparkly pink handled Flexi with one of those cutsie little poop bag holders hanging from it. It would make me laugh my butt off.


----------



## qbchottu

x11 said:


> *"I want is for you to video tape your flexi tracking session  *
> 
> $100 says my dogs will find the end of the track before yr champ schuts III dog;
> 
> track 01 - YouTube





jocoyn said:


> Where is the flexi in that video?


What exactly what the point of that video? If it was to showcase the use of the flexi during step to step schutzhund tracking, it fell short as the dog in your video was not even on lead...so how was it supposed to illustrate the use of the flexi over traditional lead in besting a "champ schuts III dog" during IPO tracking? 

Do you have a video of IPO tracking with your dog on flexi? Have you successively taught a dog to schutzhund track with a flexi? I would imagine a flexi would irritate and chafe the skin if you put the flexi thin tape under a dog's arms - you cannot even grab it with your hands so how will it feel to a dog on the thin underarm skin when it is trying to pull and drives forward to complete the track - not conducive during a learning process. Can't even imagine how the control and progression of the track would go - probably much like Nancy's experience of coming off her feet. Think you can manipulate the flexi fast enough on the track when the dog starts to spin and you have to quickly correct? What about if you have to choke up on the lead with minimal distraction? Will the lock/unlock mechanism and reeling in the dog like a fish be effective methods during the teaching process? What about if the dog makes a mistake and you must correct - can you deliver an effective correction with this bulky tool? I have my sincere doubts



jocoyn said:


> I think the flexi has its place but I use like the others as *a recreational tool, not a training tool.*


Agree. Only time I have seen it being used semi-effectively in IPO style training was during dumbbell retrieves...even then it fell short.


----------



## qbchottu

Marty & Kao Tacking 2012 Northeast Regional Championship - YouTube
This is a 100pt IPO3 track - can you replicate this with your flexi? 

And by the way, trial regulation leads need to measure to 10m (33ft) - does your flexi come in trial length as well?


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Good Mornin' Q.



Now that you mention it the Flexi's and reeling dogs in- LOL! It reminds me of when I used to go fishing with my dad and how he taught me to reel the fish in. All they need is a better drag adjustments!!


----------



## qbchottu

Morning Linda!!

Another point of consideration as you seem to be hypervigilant to gender stereotypes (as evidenced by your charming introduction) - the line "caresses" my male's testicles during a track and that bugs him enough as is....wonder what impact that thin flexi tape cutting into his stones is going to make - can't imagine he is going to be happy about it (especially if you start reeling him in - tracking might become protection at that point  )


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

LOL!! 


Enjoyed the tracking vid you posted. Looking forward to doing that with my girlie. Given the opportunity she seems to enjoy following scents on the ground. I call her my 'earth dog'.


----------



## carmspack

what was this shindig as you called it and what were you hoping to gain from it after driving 3 hours. wow, you found people in loud suits, and lady organizers to which you gave a two handed one finger salute .
Even so when some guy tries to help out " i guess the bleeding heart guy in the club followed me out and said hey nice dog why don't you come back in and pulled out a flat 6 foot leather leash and said here you can use this" --- you drove off .

?????


----------



## DaniFani

sit said:


> I am trying to wrap my mind around wanting to be taken seriously as an event security K9 team, with real world aggression from the dog, and the use of a flexi-lead.
> Sheilah


:rofl:

--start sarcasm---It doesn't matter, OP's dog is the epitome of the GSD, should be the stud to EVERYONE's bitches around the world, and could best any of your "labs in GSD clothing" any day of the week!! Ya'll should consider yourselves lucky to be conversing with OP, even if it is only in the internets!  

Those JOKESTER's at the event he was going to should have seen him coming a mile away and bowed down to him and his dog...maybe even laid out the red carpet and profusely apologize for OP even having to SEE their "examples" of GSDs. Jeesh!!! We need more respect around here, ya'll are in the presence of GREATNESS!!!! :tongue: --end sarcasm--

Would LOVE to hear the event host's thoughts on the exchange....


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

I needed to be entertained today. 

Good point Carmspack. ?????


----------



## DaniFani

qbchottu said:


> Marty & Kao Tacking 2012 Northeast Regional Championship - YouTube
> This is a 100pt IPO3 track - can you replicate this with your flexi?
> 
> And by the way, trial regulation leads need to measure to 10m (33ft) - does your flexi come in trial length as well?


Q, his comment about Sch was just to ruffle Sch handler's feathers. He doesn't care for Sch, thinks his dog is better than that sport. Read some of his past comments and threads. I doubt he's ever had his dog run a Sch track, nose to the ground, checking every step, calm, controlled, driven....His dog is a "natural" and OP is a "natural handler." No time for "sport," only time for getting his dog to attack and bite anything within reach when he gets him worked up....ya know, what every "pure" GSD should do.

Don't bother arguing Sch with OP, though. It was a comment meant to get people defensive, that is all.


----------



## qbchottu

Amen Dani!!

One thing for sure...whole lotta funny in this thread


----------



## Anitsisqua

Anitsisqua said:


> I don't know about you peasants, but I only use a lead hand-woven from the intermingled fibers of the tambalacoque tree and the soft ear fur of newborn Red Wolf pups.
> 
> ...Kidding aside, it sounds to me like everyone behaved poorly except the kind gentleman who offered to lend you his lead. The one whose wardrobe choice you seem so keen on mocking.





x11 said:


> :d:d:d
> 
> 
> are you a witch?


No. I just love the way it caresses my hands. It's like making love to nature with every touch.


----------



## Blanketback

I can't believe they sell flexi knock-offs in dollar stores! Argh. Since most people use these things improperly anyway, adding in the "junk" factor isn't simply asking for trouble, it's insisting on it, lol. 

I like the flexi because it's the next best thing to no leash at all. So obviously the dog should be trained to the point that it's not going to get into traffic, go after other dogs, or race off straining at the end of it. That would be dumb, lol. Mine is very old, from when they still made the corded version in the 26' for large dogs.


----------



## Shaolin

Anitsisqua said:


> No. I just love the way it caresses my hands. It's like making love to nature with every touch.


OMFG....

That is the best thing I've ever read. 

Please...can you make me one of those leads? I will pay you in gold, jewels, and alcohol.


----------



## NancyJ

I am bummed though where is the chain lead with the vinyl handle in the heirarchy?


----------



## Switchblade906

Blanketback said:


> I can't believe they sell flexi knock-offs in dollar stores! Argh. Since most people use these things improperly anyway, adding in the "junk" factor isn't simply asking for trouble, it's insisting on it, lol.
> 
> I like the flexi because it's the next best thing to no leash at all. So obviously the dog should be trained to the point that it's not going to get into traffic, go after other dogs, or race off straining at the end of it. That would be dumb, lol. Mine is very old, from when they still made the corded version in the 26' for large dogs.


 
Well since most people who use the crappy dollar store ones are only using them for little ankle bitters they really don't matter.


----------



## Anitsisqua

Switchblade906 said:


> Well since most people who use the crappy dollar store ones are only using them for little ankle bitters they really don't matter.


A guy in my town uses a small flexi for each of his poorly-behaved pit bulls. Terrifying.


----------



## Lilie

I'm a little confused. You drove three hours with your dog in tow to attend a GSD shindig - but you allowed your stereotypical views on people's choice of clothing and the fact you were asked to not utilize a flexi - to shoot the finger at the lady who took the time to explain to you why their club doesn't allow the use of a flexi? Plus you decided you didn't want to play with them because you were no where near the same league as them? 

I could understand being rude and running for the hills if they were using training methods that were harmful. Of if they made you eat okra and worms. Or maybe even if they required you to bring small animal sacrifices to each meeting. 

But to rudely blow off an opportunity to learn something new because of your fashion views and the use of a specific _leash _just doesn't make any sense to me at all.


----------



## Freestep

I despise Flexi-leads. People talk about how prong collars and electric collars are evil and should be banned? I think Flexi-leads should be banned!  

Actually, they have their use. They're great for puppies, potty walks, teaching the recall, and anytime you want control but aren't going to be around other people and other dogs. Like walks on a deserted beach.

But please don't bring your dog to the groomer on a Flexi-lead, don't walk your dogs in a crowded public place on a Flexi-lead, and don't use a Flexi-lead when your dog is so strong he can pull the thing out of your hands and/or wrap himself around people's legs. Ever gotten a Flexi-burn behind the knees? It HURTS!


----------



## Blanketback

Uh un Freestep, if I was on a deserted beach I would definitely be letting my dog have the pleasure of a nice long run. I'll bet many dogs never get this opportunity, and that's just plain miserable. The exercise part, I mean. Lol, I'd like a nice deserted beach nearby too! 

I know why people hate flexis, but it doesn't make sense. Why not hate the real problem, which is the owners that don't feel it's necessary to control their dogs?


----------



## GSDolch

Anitsisqua said:


> No. I just love the way it caresses my hands. It's like making love to nature with every touch.



LOL


Besides, witches use human skin..duh.


----------



## kayliyth

My grandparents had a boxer and a minpin I would have to walk at the same darn time. The boxer was on a nylon lead and a choker, and while untrained would easily learn that I didn't like going flying and I was in control.

Their stupid minpin (sorry small dog owners), enjoyed RUNNING AROUND YOU causing you to be tangled in the **** cord. The cord would then ZIP back around you as you moved the dog back around. I had rope burn on my legs. Then the one day he hit the end of the lead and I let go out of surprise the handle hit the ground and shattered.

Well that flexilead died. 

Anytime I see a flexilead I wonder if that dog is going to run around someone and tangle them up. Nylon flat cord or the round cord doesn't matter. I've seen plenty of times where we're on a walk and a flexidog will lung and then the owner loses it. Scaring the dog the flexihandle fuels the fire of the dog running away, and the people are left screaming for their dog while the handle bounces off the dog's shoulder causing more panic and shock. When you finally catch the dog the owner will pick up his flexilead and huff a haughty thank you. 

At this point depending on my irritation level I will do one of two things, just let the person go. Or tell the person they're an idiot nicely. Usually its 'large breeds do so much better on a nylon leash." Or something like that. 

Kratos has yanked his leash out of my hand once. It was a simple fix. I stomped on the leash and the dog couldn't move. If he was on a flexi? The flexi would have ricocheted off the sidewalk and bounced after him freaking him the **** out, possibly driving him into traffic.

When I go to Sanction matches and what not I don't see dogs on flexileads. I think its a universal thing, put your dog on a proper lead, nylon or leather or **** even rope. Anything is better than a flexi. Why would you get so offended when people try to educate you? 

As for why ladies arrange these things? Most of the dog showing people I've seen, most of the people at our kennel club where I live are women. Women tend to be more organized than most men (its not always the case there are exceptions). And flashy clothing? 

Are you the freaking FASHION police? You don't like them hauling on you about your darn leash so like a child you mock their clothing? Seriously? Does it hurt you in any way if a guy comes out in a sparkly red suit? Nope, you aren't the doofus wearing it. Would I wear it? Heck no. But maybe he likes it. Maybe it makes him feel good about himself. Who are you to judge his clothing choices? Especially when he's being nice enough to give you a solution?

When I get offered a different view point on raising my dog, I listen and take it in. Do I follow it all? Nope. I take what I want from it and the rest I keep on file just in case I want to revisit it. 

I was at a show yesterday. Going to show my dog, I was approached by a person who has championed her dogs (and is now retiring due to age). She asked why I was using a specific lead. I explained that i had been told to use it at handling classes. She huffed and told me what better to use, and don't use that 'sh-t'. Now I could have been offended and been like "f-you" lady. But instead I asked WHY! WHY WHY WHY! She explained it was easier to control the dog with a different lead/collar set. Done. It makes SENSE. So off I trotted to retrieve that different combo and guess what?! SHE WAS RIGHT holy crap! People who give advice may know what their talking about.

Gah. Sorry this is long.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Unfortunately that's an exercise in frustration. I think in some ways the flexi's for the general pet owning public actually deincentivize them from training good leash manners under the guise of letting the dog 'have fun'.

It's easier and more appropriate for dog related events/venues which allow the general public to restrict the use of flexi's rather then try to get people to train dogs who probably won't.



Blanketback said:


> Uh un Freestep, if I was on a deserted beach I would definitely be letting my dog have the pleasure of a nice long run. I'll bet many dogs never get this opportunity, and that's just plain miserable. The exercise part, I mean. Lol, I'd like a nice deserted beach nearby too!
> 
> 
> I know why people hate flexis, but it doesn't make sense. Why not hate the real problem, which is the owners that don't feel it's necessary to control their dogs?​


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

:wild: 



GSDolch said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> Besides, witches use human skin..duh.


----------



## Shaolin

Blanketback said:


> I know why people hate flexis, but it doesn't make sense. Why not hate the real problem, which is the owners that don't feel it's necessary to control their dogs?


I've seen Flexi's fail without the dog acting like idiots. A neighbor who lives a cul-de-sac over who walks his little Bichons past my house, knocked on my door once and asked if he could borrow a leash to take his dogs home, as the thing just up and died on him; it was stuck all the way out at full lenght and the button had dissapeared into the handle. 

It irritates me that people take their animals in public without being under better control on a regular leash, let alone a Flexi.


----------



## Abby142

I almost lost my finger to a flexi. My parents brought their chocolate lab down to visit but they forgot his leash so they stopped somewhere and bough a flexi. I was walking him through the apartment complex parking lot when someone come outside with their little dog. That dog charged (not on any leash) and my parents dog charged too. As instinct I grabbed for the leash with my other hand, the line got wrapped around my finger and tore off more skin then I was comfortable loosing. Everyone was fine and my parents dog came running back when I called him, and the little dog ran back to its owner when my dog charged. Could the situation have been prevented if I had used the flexi properly and used the locking button? yes of course, but to this day I can't fully straighten out that finger.

Flexi leads are great on a secluded beach or hiking trail, I have used them on my dog since this accident but only where I know we won't run into anyone else, never in public.


----------



## sitstay

qbchottu said:


> Marty & Kao Tacking 2012 Northeast Regional Championship - YouTube
> This is a 100pt IPO3 track - can you replicate this with your flexi?


Awesome! 
Sheilah


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

x11 said:


> ... guy in the club followed me out and said hey nice dog why don't you come back in and pulled out a flat 6 foot leather leash and said here you can use this. i looked at his bright red safari suit and said thanks man but i don't think this is my scene and left.


Every dog event we have been to has had a NO Flexi lead rule. It is for the safety of ALL dogs because not everyone can use a flexi safely.

Also, There is no reason to have a dog more than 6 feet from you at an event where there are lots of dogs walking around.

And last but not least, if someone was to get hurt due to a dog on a flexi - getting away and attacking another dog or person, getting a bad line burn from the flexi line, etc. - the event operators could be sued.

I love flexi's and own several. I also know there is a time and a place when a flexi is NOT to be used.


----------



## Steph and Leyna

*dangerous more than any other*

My obedience trainer told our class that Flexi leashes have more warnings associated with them than even a chain saw!
http://www.flexiusa.com/operation/pdfs/WarnText_all.pdf

They are dangerous for the human AND the dog apparently. I was using one the first week of potty training my recently adopted 8 month old GSD when once she suddenly jerked it out of my hand. She was running around playing with other dogs while that Flexi leash handle was bouncing around behind her and it hit the leg another human who was standing around and was very painful. I stopped using it that day.


----------



## Blanketback

"Do not use this leash with a disobedient or uncontrollable dog."

That's cut and pasted from the link above. And when I unwrap goods that come in large plastic bags, they're stamped "This is not a toy" and have warnings about suffocation. It's sad, isn't it, that we have to be told these things?


----------



## FlyAway

x11 said:


> top of the social ladder you have the round braided from natural fibres of highly endangered tree-climbing jungle mountain camels favoured by the high falutin save the rainforest types in a fat white people join my religion and i will give you a free television set - oh you don't have electricity how cute condescending kind of way.
> 
> 
> followed by the hand-made by amish fifth generation puppy millers flat 6 foot leather leash crowd
> 
> 
> below that and a looooong way below that is the standard white trash nylon leash
> 
> and at the botom of the ladder is the flexi-lead crowd


LOL! I have all of these, though my braided is regular cow, but **** expensive! I use the nylon most of the time. The leather are for dog shows, the flexi is for casual walks and potty time at hotels. The expensive one is for conformation shows. 

I think the perception is that only stupid owners use those flexi. And if they don't know you and your dog to start with, it might make them nervous.


----------



## LouCastle

dogfaeries said:


> Not sure why you are so married to the idea of a flexi. It's a pretty clunky, awkward piece of equipment.


I think that a Flexi is the best tool for teaching the recall. It has many advantages over a long line. 

BTW my wife used to work in a plastic surgeon's office. They handled two traumatic amputations of fingers due to Flexi leashes. I've not gotten the "back of the knee rope burn" but I have seen them on a few people. 

Guess I'm just a thrill seeker! 



GSDolch said:


> For me its more common sense to not use one because they've never really been used for training, to dangerous IMO. Use for general walks or hikes or something, sure,but they aren't good for training.


Guess I'm "happy in my ignorance." I've been using a Flexi to teach the recall for over two decades. 



Sunflowers said:


> Aw, c' mon! You know you secretly covet a smiley Flexi!


I was thinking of Bedazzling™ mine. 



jocoyn said:


> You were talking about taking that and putting it on a flexi? It is exactly that kind of raw power and speed I could not control with a flexi. Seeing as how I have a 5 inch plate in my ankle from another onlead trailing dog with a regular line, I shudder even more to think what else could happen with one of these things.


I know that I'm missing something. How is this sort of thing completely controllable with a long line but completely UNcontrolable with a Flexi? 

On another note, how is it that some people, even some with quite a bit of experience, seem to be unaware that Flexi's come in BOTH string versions AND tape versions? I guess they're not reading past the thread title and the first couple of posts.


----------



## Blanketback

I've checked the Flexi site and they don't sell the heavy-duty version with the cord anymore. I guess too many people had very bad experiences by grabbing the thing while their uncontrolled dogs were having too much fun.


----------



## GSDolch

LouCastle said:


> Guess I'm "happy in my ignorance." I've been using a Flexi to teach the recall for over two decades.



Don't put words in peoples mouths.  I said common sense : good sense and sound judgment in practical matters, not ignorance : Lack of knowledge or information. So I don't know where you get "happy in my ignorance" from.

Glad you've had good experience with it, You'd be one of the very very few people I know of that uses it. I still don't trust them, regardless of what they are made out of. /shrugs I don't think its a good judgement to use them, so, I don't. Everyone else is responsible for their own judgements.


----------



## katdog5911

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Here ladies, handy for unruly flexi lead boys....


The scissors are for the leash, right? Or something else???:rofl:


Different strokes for different folks...

Time and place for everything....

To each their own.....

I have more leashes, made of all different materials, in all different sizes....all for different situations.


----------



## Syaoransbear

I've had my hand cut by the tape flexi lead as well. Me and my mom were walking Chrono in the park. My mom was holding the leash and at some point he had went behind my legs. Then he saw a cat and darted forward. Instead of being completely tripped by him I grabbed the tape since I didn't think it could cut me, but it did. I bought this flexi lead BECAUSE I thought it wouldn't cut my hand like the line does, but I was wrong. Too bad they don't make a leather flexi lead .


----------



## AngelaA6

I have both. Flexi for enforced recall and playing fetch/flirt pole at the park up the road from my house that requires a leash. Also distance command training (with distractions) at the leashed park. I use a double handle nylon leash for walks and everything else. If I'm going to the park I have both in my purse and switch out the appropriate leash for the appropriate activity...


----------



## NancyJ

LouCastle said:


> I know that I'm missing something. How is this sort of thing completely controllable with a long line but completely UNcontrolable with a Flexi?
> 
> On another note, how is it that some people, even some with quite a bit of experience, seem to be unaware that Flexi's come in BOTH string versions AND tape versions? I guess they're not reading past the thread title and the first couple of posts.


Lou, in reference to the tracking comment. I tried it with a 26 foot all tape flexi. 

I found control very hard to manage and it was either on or off. You can't feed out the line as well as you can a tracking line. And you don't have the feel you have with one. Dog took off, hit end, pulled me down.

Trailing in woods is another scenario. You need line behind you so when you go around trees you can maintain tension by reaching around the tree and grabbing the leading part of the lead. It becomes second nature. In general if you are walking through forest being on the end of the lead gets you tangled. Managing it does not.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

I really was not going to chime in.... Years ago I adopted my old Max from the animal shelter. He was a pretty good dog. I had done a lot of obedience in years past but was rusty. I had him in classes and he was doing great. The one thing he hated was to be run up on by loose dogs. This is not uncommon.

Fast forward.... I had him on a walk on a flexi, we were walking downhill. One dog ran out from the left, another ran out from the right at the same time. I imagine you can picture what happened. I tripped over the flexi, hit my head on the pavement, broke my nose, my glasses, and scraped my lips. My hands were raw. My legs were bruised from my thighs to my ankles. The MRI 5 weeks later showed knee damage. 

If I manage my weight carefully I do not hurt. 

I have never used a flexi again. My sister uses one for her 8 pound poodle but she uses it repsonsibly. 

I would not class them as evil, but they are dangerous in cerain settings.


----------



## selzer

Hmmmm. 


Usually by the time people are ready to go to a dog show, they have found their way to a trainer who encourages people to show. 

Trainers who encourage people to show (not just conformation), usually start their classes with the requirement for a six foot leash. Often they discuss the variety of leashes and training collars available and the problems associated with them. Trainers will require a six foot leash, but may use a long line or a flexi for recall -- I always opt for a long line because there is less chance of injury with the long line. 

Usually dog shows are put on by a club where they ask for volunteers -- club members to take on various jobs at the show. Most likely the lady at the door was not the organizer of the event. It was probably a volunteer who may not have been well versed on what to say to the person with the kids that are jumping all over a competitor's boat, or the guy bringing a dog in with a flexi-lead. So she said it doesn't look professional which struck a nerve. 

So what? It doesn't look professional. If you can buy it at WalMart or the dollar store, you probably won't find it at a dog show. Just like if you can find it at WalMart, you won't find it at a bicycle race or long tour. The cheap junk at WalMart is simply not for professionals. As kids we grew out of anything they have to offer, and we started hanging out at the bike shop where we could find parts and equipment that could hold up to what we could give it and weigh less than half what the junk and WalMart weighs. 

Same deal with dogs. No, you are unlikely to see the same toys, bowls, beds, crates, collars or leads, that you will find at WalMart. You can get flexi-leads and prong collars and E-collars at PetsMart. But that does not mean they are welcome at shows. PetsMart caters more to the pet-people, rather than the people who show. And evenso, their prongs are junk, and I believe their e-collars are mostly junk too. 

If you are serious, you get equipment specifically designed for the sport, whatever the sport, cycling, dressage, conformation, obedience, tracking, protection. Doesn't matter. 

The crap at WalMart is for people who have dog lovers on the Christmas list and they have to buy us something, and they find a cool leash thingy that has a flashlight, radio, doggy poop bags, and a first aide kit all in one. -- Yeah I have a couple at home. I can't throw them away. I won't regift them. I use them to hold open a crate or door. 

But no one at a show would be cought dead with such a contraption. It would be like arriving for a bicycle race on a baloon-tired Huffy with a spring seat. 

I think people make up threads like this one, either because things have been rather boring lately, or because people really like to make up any excuse to diss the people at dog shows or other dog events. 

So, OP if you read this far, why don't you get a life, and let other people enjoy the things that you don't care about anyway?


----------



## Lilie

I still don't understand the big deal for a club to not allow a specific lead. Or a collar. Or some other type of equipment. It certainly wouldn't mean I couldn't decide to ever use it on my own. It just means if I want to utilize their location, equipment, training, etc. then I can't have it on my dog. 

Unless I am incapable of using a normal leash - then it's a no brainer to me. If I really wanted to see what the club was about, i'd borrow a leash and hang out. 

And what people were wearing would mean even less to me. Unless I didn't read the fine print and it was a nudist colony and they expected me to strip down before I entered the doors......


----------



## LouCastle

GSDolch said:


> Don't put words in peoples mouths.  I said common sense : good sense and sound judgment in practical matters, not ignorance : Lack of knowledge or information. So I don't know where you get "happy in my ignorance" from.


I didn't put any words in your mouth, and I don't appreciate the accusation, especially since you're wrong! Yes, you spoke of _"common sense"_ and said that _"... they've never really been used for training ..."_ (quite wrong there). But you ALSO said this,


> Use for general walks or hikes or something, sure, *but they aren't good for training. * [Emphasis Added]


 Your words, your mouth. 



GSDolch said:


> Glad you've had good experience with it, You'd be one of the very very few people I know of that uses it.


It only takes one of us to make your blanket statement _"... they aren't good for training"_ wrong. Perhaps if you'd limited your statement to the sort of training that YOU engage in, you'd have gotten away with it. But not everyone trains as you do. 



GSDolch said:


> I still don't trust them, regardless of what they are made out of.


You're not required to trust them, or to use them for that matter. Use whatever equipment works well for you. But I'd suggest that you refrain from making blanket statements about what works and what doesn't work "for training." 



GSDolch said:


> /shrugs I don't think its a good judgement to use them, so, I don't.


I'll disagree. For what I use them for, anything else is a poor second.


----------



## LouCastle

jocoyn said:


> Lou, in reference to the tracking comment. I tried it with a 26 foot all tape flexi.
> 
> I found control very hard to manage and it was either on or off. You can't feed out the line as well as you can a tracking line. And you don't have the feel you have with one. Dog took off, hit end, pulled me down.


Now I understand Nancy. Thanks for clarifying. I know lots of police dog handlers who prefer the same Flexi that you described, when they're doing building searches. They wear gloves and allow the dog to pull the line out. If they want to slow the feeding of the webbing down, they'll use their free hand (not the one holding the flexi handle) to pinch the webbing. Don't try that bare-handed with either a Flexi or a long line, unless you enjoy scorched fingers. Don't ask me how I know this. 

They don't want the "extra" length of the line on the ground because either they'll step on it or another team member may, bringing the dog to a jerking halt. Usually the dog will take that as a recall correction and he'll return to the handler. I much prefer to have the dog off-leash during building searches, except for very limited and specialized circumstances. 



jocoyn said:


> Trailing in woods is another scenario. You need line behind you so when you go around trees you can maintain tension by reaching around the tree and grabbing the leading part of the lead. It becomes second nature. In general if you are walking through forest being on the end of the lead gets you tangled. Managing it does not.


I do my tracking off−leash so the question of Flexi v. long line, never comes up. Your situations make perfect sense. Different jobs, different response to the needs.


----------



## Pooky44

I have used a flexi leash for all of my dogs. I have no problem with my thumbs. They function perfectly to stop/set the leash at the length I want. I have no problem anticipating problems that would indicate I should reel my dog in. I love the flexibility of the flexi leash, so does my dog.


----------



## selzer

Actually, if I went with to a dog-event, and the general public was welcome with their dogs (did not have to be entered to have the dog there), and there were flexi-leads being used, I would turn around and leave. I would not trust people to all have their dogs under control at their sides. 

At shows, dogs are working. They work off-lead in agility and obedience and rally. And there is enough going on at shows not to have people being orbited by their dogs. It just isn't a good scene at all.


----------



## x11

OK i get it now, the problem here is for some of the physically challenged. i guess for them the flexi can be quite a dangerous bit of machinery - falling over and grazing the knees, losing fingers etc, i hear ya. so i guess thats why they invented the leashless leash AKA the e-collar. we already got the einstein so why not improve on it and get a full screen, touch screen remote with a split screen with a live feed to facebook so you can upload pics of poopsy from the comfort of a big safe chair while yelling comands at yr dog without even gettin off yr butt to train them. actually for fat fingered peeps invent a clip on yr lapel VOX activated control version even less motor skills involved, could call that one "the Hawking", and if we can keep US policy makers out of the world of rational thought for 5 years stem cell researchers could finally make some progress like for spinal injuries and get a direct brain wave version that requires no physical input at all, just think the commands, call that one the Darwin. Lou get on this - we can make a truckload of money here.

but yr all missing the symbolism here, look at the shape of a flexi when standing on its base, what do ya see???? look harder - its half a heart (the handle bit is clearly the aorta), we are just waiting for you rigids to pick up a flexi then the two halves of the shattered heart can finally come together and there will be just love between all of us. do we not all bleed red, does not to the paragon of virtue and the mother of nations the queen of england herself take dumps on the little throne while reading the funny section of the sunday paper (senior members explain to the young ones blogger generation what sheet news is, sheeeeet news haha thats funny, blogging while bogging - too much).

and for the poster that commented about making love with nature whatever - you know 100 years ago on the east coast you would have been burned at the stake by well meaning puritans, just sayin.


----------



## GSDElsa

I have no problems with the flexi when used appropriately (ie dog not running amuck).

However, there is no reason to have a flexi leash on at a dog event because it is NOT an appropriate leash. So I don't think the club was out of line thinking it wasn't a good leash for you to have on your dog.


----------



## dOg

I am reminded of so many silly things reading this thread. When in Rome, go with the flow, do as the Romans are doing. Had you borrowed the leash and returned, it would have been an interesting outing. I see both sides, but all organizations, by there very nature have rules, and had you been able to demonstrate an attentive and well behaved dog, I suspect even the woman in charge may have come to laugh at herself, especially if your dog was behaving better than her's! Being angry with folks is usually less productive than trying to mix anger and dog training, which don't work at all. Maybe that was a test?

Maybe they got all the dogs the helper can handle already, and it wasn't in the cards... you sure ain't gonna trust the lock on a retractable if your the helper, either.
If there's a next time, bring a leash. And a tug, and a ball on a string. Be prepared.
Go alone and watch first maybe. Nobody is going to make you stand in the rain overnight, but depending upon the cast of characters involved, initation might involve some laughter, just sayin.

I had a reel leash on a bike handlebar once, and the dog took off what he thought was a skunk...suffice it to say, when a big dog reaches the end at full charge, bad stuff can happen.


----------



## Sunflowers

Yeah, get yourself a red safari suit, man. You know you want one. You were just envious of that bloke.


----------



## carmspack

yeah, red safari suit , probably some "team" outfit . See it at trials with kennel groups all wearing the same colours -windbreakers and pants.
Safari suits were made in red?


----------



## x11

not just any old red safari suit, bright red with yellow tie, prolly custom tailored.


----------



## AngelaA6

Or you could stand out from the crowd and wear a "Man in the Yellow Suit" style one like from Curious George


----------



## x11

A6, i think you are just making light of this serious thread, please stay on topic and treat it with the seriousness which was intended.


----------



## gsdsar

x11 said:


> A6, i think you are just making light of this serious thread, please stay on topic and treat it with the seriousness which was intended.


Pretty sure I just laughed do hard wine came out my nose. Thanks for that. 

Of course if you were not intending to be funny, well that makes it funnier. Sorry


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## x11

gsdsar said:


> Pretty sure I just laughed do hard wine came out my nose. Thanks for that.
> 
> Of course if you were not intending to be funny, well that makes it funnier. Sorry
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


oh yes most definately a serious thread, you haven't been following it?


----------



## gsdsar

Oh yes, religiously. Most enlightening. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Sunflowers

x11 said:


> not just any old red safari suit, bright red with yellow tie, prolly custom tailored.


You know, you could go back there and one up them. How about a hot pink suit with a glowing purple tie?
And a matching six-foot leather lead... 
Your dog could wear a bandanna in those colors. You could also spray paint his ears hot pink.


----------



## x11

you might be on to something hmmm, you on face book? if i do all that will you put me on yr wall?


----------



## x11

gsdsar said:


> Oh yes, religiously. Most enlightening.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


i get yr point, thanks, but we don't discuss religion here


----------



## Sunflowers

No Facebook for me. I never got why people would want to broadcast every infinitesimal piece of their lives online.
However, if you also paint his nails purple, I will put you in my album on this site.


----------



## x11

yeah me no facebook either, you know, facebook friends are not your friends and all.

how much circulation would i get to the single ladies in yr album?


----------



## selzer

Religion is ok, no politics.


----------



## Syaoransbear

Sunflowers said:


> No Facebook for me. I never got why people would want to broadcast every infinitesimal piece of their lives online.
> However, if you also paint his nails purple, I will put you in my album on this site.


Facebook is for reading everyone else's infinitesimal piece of their lives, broadcasting your own stuff is totally optional . My facebook page is naked :lurking:.


----------



## Mrs.K

x11 said:


> yeah me no facebook either, you know, facebook friends are not your friends and all.
> 
> how much circulation would i get to the single ladies in yr album?


Not true at all. My Facebook friends helped me get my dog back. Without them, it would not have been possible. It also lets me keep in touch with my family. Most of the stuff on my facebook is dog related anyways...

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## x11

Mrs.K said:


> Not true at all. My Facebook friends helped me get my dog back. Without them, it would not have been possible. It also lets me keep in touch with my family. Most of the stuff on my facebook is dog related anyways...
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


so what yr really saying is you want this on yr facebook page;

*"You know, you could go back there and one up them. How about a hot pink suit with a glowing purple tie?
And a matching six-foot leather lead... 
Your dog could wear a bandanna in those colors. You could also spray paint his ears hot pink."*

i hear ya.


----------



## Nigel

carmspack said:


> yeah, red safari suit , probably some "team" outfit . See it at trials with kennel groups all wearing the same colours -windbreakers and pants.
> *Safari suits were made in red*?


Hmmm... Maybe it was Don Cherry?


----------



## GSDolch

LouCastle said:


> I didn't put any words in your mouth, and I don't appreciate the accusation, especially since you're wrong! Yes, you spoke of _"common sense"_ and said that _"... they've never really been used for training ..."_ (quite wrong there). But you ALSO said this, Your words, your mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> It only takes one of us to make your blanket statement _"... they aren't good for training"_ wrong. Perhaps if you'd limited your statement to the sort of training that YOU engage in, you'd have gotten away with it. But not everyone trains as you do.
> 
> 
> 
> You're not required to trust them, or to use them for that matter. Use whatever equipment works well for you. But I'd suggest that you refrain from making blanket statements about what works and what doesn't work "for training."
> 
> 
> 
> I'll disagree. For what I use them for, anything else is a poor second.




You really are taking things far to personal. Putting things in " " is quoting someone. "happy in my ignorance" is saying I said it, plus singling out my post on something that others have said...that its not good for training. So yes, you DID put words in my mouth.

I stated my opinion, you don't have to like it, but you sir, are the one making it personal, not me.

Again, I don't think they are good for training, I'm not the only one that thinks that, as I said, you don't have to agree with it, I don't care, but don't try to make it sound like I said something I didn't.


----------



## Mikelia

Why is a long line better than a flexi? Yes, it can be a very useful training tool for recalls and 'off' lead stuff. However there is always tension on the leash, the dog is constantly reminded you are at the other end. You cannot let a dog drag a flexi, you cannot step on a flexi, you cannot easily control the leash pressure. Now this is largely what I am used to and experienced with, but I much prefer a thin 30 foot long line that I can graduate to the dog dragging it and being able to step on it if need be. Yeah the dog steps on it but the dogs get used to it. With a very strong, powerful potentially aggressive dog or a dog who will run off, a good long line (1" wide and strong clip if necessary) gives me peace of mind whereas I know the dog might bust the flexi at the wrong moment and disaster strike. And I feel that once a dog is used to the long line, it is more of an off leash experience than with a flexi.
I have read this whole thread and have thoroughly enjoyed doing so. Obviously these shouldn't be used by 3/4 of the people who use them. I have seen my share of dogs 16 feet away from their owner, down the next aisle of petsmart and getting attacked by another dog. Or someone with their well behaved dog standing and chatting, and a squirrel runs across the lawn on the other side of the street and before owner has a chance to respond the dog is 16' out on the road. I met someone a few weeks ago with her hand in severe bandages, the cut was to the bone across her palm and it required many stitches to close. Saw a dog get spooked by something, jumped, pulled the leash out of the owners hand, flexi started to reel in towards the dog and the dog took off running, with the flexi in tow. Ran underneath a city bus. I could go on but I also could go on about people abusing pinch collars, crates, e collars, squirt bottles, treats and so on. 
This being said I own a flexi - it is great for exercising when I am too lazy, tired, busy to actually run the dogs. Potty breaks and travelling it comes in handy. I like how it doesn't get dragged through mud or poop like a long line. I never, ever use it in public for the simple fact I don't trust it to serve me in the one moment I may need to trust it the most. I work pet retail - I have seen them come back time and time again for failing. They come with a 'backup collar' for if your collar breaks and the clip flies back into your face. I have seen people be asked to remove them at shows and I have never been to a class that allows them. And they're bulky! 
Definitely a 'to each their own' tool. Great advantages, and horrendous disadvantages. I guess I am pro flexi, anti ignorant dog owners using them.


----------



## kjdreyer

Wow, when I saw this yesterday, I had no idea it'd still be barreling along! X11, you are hilarious, I hope you write a humor column for a respected British broadsheet when you're not making the world safe for the Flexi-lead. BTW, stateside, our Flexi-leads are made of a whip-thin nylon rope slightly thicker than a deep-sea fishing line, hence all the missing limbs, and hence the deep and abiding hatred of the string-on-an-aorta. Please, keep stirring it up, this is a blast! May I suggest you launch an anti-crate training and a pro-dogpark thread just to see what happens? (No disrespect intended, I'm just a newbie here, but this is fun!)


----------



## GSDolch

Mikelia said:


> Why is a long line better than a flexi? Yes, it can be a very useful training tool for recalls and 'off' lead stuff. However there is always tension on the leash, the dog is constantly reminded you are at the other end. You cannot let a dog drag a flexi, you cannot step on a flexi, you cannot easily control the leash pressure. Now this is largely what I am used to and experienced with, but I much prefer a thin 30 foot long line that I can graduate to the dog dragging it and being able to step on it if need be. Yeah the dog steps on it but the dogs get used to it. With a very strong, powerful potentially aggressive dog or a dog who will run off, a good long line (1" wide and strong clip if necessary) gives me peace of mind whereas I know the dog might bust the flexi at the wrong moment and disaster strike. And I feel that once a dog is used to the long line, it is more of an off leash experience than with a flexi.
> I have read this whole thread and have thoroughly enjoyed doing so. Obviously these shouldn't be used by 3/4 of the people who use them. I have seen my share of dogs 16 feet away from their owner, down the next aisle of petsmart and getting attacked by another dog. Or someone with their well behaved dog standing and chatting, and a squirrel runs across the lawn on the other side of the street and before owner has a chance to respond the dog is 16' out on the road. I met someone a few weeks ago with her hand in severe bandages, the cut was to the bone across her palm and it required many stitches to close. Saw a dog get spooked by something, jumped, pulled the leash out of the owners hand, flexi started to reel in towards the dog and the dog took off running, with the flexi in tow. Ran underneath a city bus. I could go on but I also could go on about people abusing pinch collars, crates, e collars, squirt bottles, treats and so on.
> This being said I own a flexi - it is great for exercising when I am too lazy, tired, busy to actually run the dogs. Potty breaks and travelling it comes in handy. I like how it doesn't get dragged through mud or poop like a long line. I never, ever use it in public for the simple fact I don't trust it to serve me in the one moment I may need to trust it the most. I work pet retail - I have seen them come back time and time again for failing. They come with a 'backup collar' for if your collar breaks and the clip flies back into your face. I have seen people be asked to remove them at shows and I have never been to a class that allows them. And they're bulky!
> Definitely a 'to each their own' tool. Great advantages, and horrendous disadvantages. I guess I am pro flexi, anti ignorant dog owners using them.


very well put, beautifully written


----------



## x11

kjdreyer said:


> *May I suggest you launch an anti-crate training and a pro-dogpark thread just to see what happens?*


dude your so late, catch up


----------



## Anitsisqua

x11 said:


> and for the poster that commented about making love with nature whatever - you know 100 years ago on the east coast you would have been burned at the stake by well meaning puritans, just sayin.


They would have burned me at the stake in 1913?! Massachusetts is even worse than I thought!



x11 said:


> i get yr point, thanks, but we don't discuss religion here


Also....Hypocrite.


----------



## x11

Anitsisqua said:


> Also....Hypocrite.


----------



## GSDolch

x11 said:


> and for the poster that commented about making love with nature whatever - you know 100 years ago on the east coast you would have been burned at the stake by well meaning puritans, just sayin.



I just wanted to point out, if you are talking about the east coast,ie: the "witch trials" in the Untied States, then no, there was no burning done. 19 people were hanged, one pressed to death and the rest died in prison awaiting their trial.

The burnings happened in Europe. 

Sry, being a witch myself I'm a stickler for that information being correct 


http://www.salemwitchmuseum.com/education/index.php


----------



## Anitsisqua

GSDolch said:


> I just wanted to point out, if you are talking about the east coast,ie: the "witch trials" in the Untied States, then no, there was no burning done. 19 people were hanged, one pressed to death and the rest died in prison awaiting their trial.
> 
> The burnings happened in Europe.
> 
> Sry, being a witch myself I'm a stickler for that information being correct
> 
> 
> Salem Witch Museum - Salem, Massachusetts


And the guy crushed to death wasn't even tried!


----------



## x11

Anitsisqua said:


> And the guy crushed to death wasn't even tried!


 
yes he was, if he survived he would have been found guilty.


anyhoo hanged, burned, drowned, crushed, decapitated by flexi-lead...whatever


----------



## Anitsisqua

x11 said:


> yes he was, if he survived he would have been found guilty.
> 
> 
> anyhoo hanged, burned, drowned, crushed, decapitated by flexi-lead...whatever


He wasn't tried. He was only crushed because he refused to enter a plea in protest of the entire corrupt system. A brave, heroic statement...


----------



## Syaoransbear

If you pulled out all the line on a flexi and then locked the handle, I don't see how it's any different than a long line besides there being a handle on one end.


----------



## jessac

I am quite amused by this thread...where else can you get a discussion that starts with flexi leads, dabbles in fashion, the organizational skills of women, and religion and ends up with witch hunts....keep it up, I'm curious where it can go next.....


----------



## x11

Syaoransbear said:


> If you pulled out all the line on a flexi and then locked the handle, I don't see how it's any different than a long line besides there being a handle on one end.


this is the question the rigids have been avoiding for the last 16 pages.


like having 20 foot of line dragging along the ground behind you while tracking/trailing at speed thru thick vegetation is somehow not an issue for them - maybe they have never actually done it??

i see more people these days wearing gloves while training their dog period so the getting yr hands injured?

there is ALWAYS tension on a flexi....blah, blah.....unless you push the button that gives you a fixed length lead of yr choice.

hitting the end of a flexi at speed is somehow more dangerous to your dog than hitting the end of a fixed length leash - how does that work exactly?


----------



## carmspack

"Originally Posted by *carmspack*  
_yeah, red safari suit , probably some "team" outfit . See it at trials with kennel groups all wearing the same colours -windbreakers and pants.
*Safari suits were made in red*?_
Hmmm... Maybe it was Don Cherry''

nah --- it was Santa Claus ---


----------



## carmspack

or was this the guy ? Hugh Hefner Robe Costume, Hef Smoking Jacket Costume, Hugh Hefner Halloween Costume, Ultimate Bachelor Costume


----------



## NancyJ

x11 said:


> like having 20 foot of line dragging along the ground behind you while tracking/trailing at speed thru thick vegetation is somehow not an issue for them - maybe they have never actually done it??


**** straight. Try it. Come to our southern deciduous forest where the woods and briars are thick and try a biothane lead vs. a flexi.

I have tried your flexi in the woods and know the limitations of being at the end of any lead instead of letting it follow. Have you tried my approach? Don't knock it unless you have. Open land is different. You can feed out the whole line then.

I don't do trailing anymore but if we are close enough to the road, my cadaver dog gets a long line. Same thing. FWIW close to any clearing often where the woods are thick because of brush.


----------



## ponyfarm

When in Rome, do as the Romans do....


----------



## GSDolch

Anitsisqua said:


> He wasn't tried. He was only crushed because he refused to enter a plea in protest of the entire corrupt system. A brave, heroic statement...



Yup, I couldn't imagine being crushed to death. *shudders*

So many people died for no reason at all, some simply to save their families. 

Death by flexi doesn't sound any better lol.


----------



## GSDolch

jessac said:


> I am quite amused by this thread...where else can you get a discussion that starts with flexi leads, dabbles in fashion, the organizational skills of women, and religion and ends up with witch hunts....keep it up, I'm curious where it can go next.....



Next on "The young and the GSD", fifi confronts frofro on fido's odd catnip addiction.

:wild:


----------



## Mikelia

I won't allow my dogs to pull at the end of the flexi. Mine is a $55 tape flexi, I have seen them bust when the dogs hit the end of it. I have large shepherds, we do weight pulling and I don't want to replace the flexi if they hit the end and break the mechanism inside. I see a flexi broken like this about once a month, on dogs smaller than mine. If I am going to put my dogs in a situation where there is going to be excitement, I am going to use what I feel is the safest and most appropriate tool. A tool which I have seen fail many times is not going to be my choice.
Flexis are 16' long (unless you have the monster one that weighs 8lbs or the flexi 3 long which only comes in the cord), that, imo, is not long enough to do a lot of training with. Any obedience recall or tracking requires a longer line than 16'.
No I don't trial in IPO or tracking. I do not have a certified search and rescue dog. I do not do protection work with my dogs. I have done some SAR training however, have done tracking training, have been through the bush with dogs on long lines many many many times. I have no problem with the use of a long line. The flexi I find cumbersome. 
Sure I could lock it out to the end of its length and have a 16' long line with a huge handle. Or I could spare myself fighting with buttons to try to keep the flexi from touching the ground. If I'm going to let my dogs leash touch the ground, I will do it with my long line that I don't mind getting filthy and I can put in the washing machine than my $55 flexi that I cannot wash easily and may mould if I let it retract and store it wet. 
Different strokes for different folks, I am not sure why the pro flexi people seem to be anti long lines. If a flexi suits your needs, you are comfortable with it and responsible with its use, then use a flexi. I am comfortable with and trust my long lines, so I use them. But, as we have seen, many people use them irresponsibly so I don't expect people at shows to interview flexi users to make sure they know how to use them properly. Easier and safer to require people to use a sturdy 6' lead.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Symbolism? Nah, nothing so deep. You're just a trouble maker on this board who can be somewhat amusing in the current (but fading) non-PC is cool sort-a way. As you travel through life you attract the kind of energy you put out..it's the only way you know....so just for fun...

You got your knickers in a wad because a club had a rule you didn't like and came here to vent about it, just for kicks, stir the pot. It really doesn't matter that much in the scheme of things.

btw- I bet your groups idea of fashion is post '70 GI Joe with a splash of 'here hold my beer an watch this' details.





x11 said:


> OK i get it now, the problem here is for some of the physically challenged. i guess for them the flexi can be quite a dangerous bit of machinery - falling over and grazing the knees, losing fingers etc, i hear ya. so i guess thats why they invented the leashless leash AKA the e-collar. we already got the einstein so why not improve on it and get a full screen, touch screen remote with a split screen with a live feed to facebook so you can upload pics of poopsy from the comfort of a big safe chair while yelling comands at yr dog without even gettin off yr butt to train them. actually for fat fingered peeps invent a clip on yr lapel VOX activated control version even less motor skills involved, could call that one "the Hawking", and if we can keep US policy makers out of the world of rational thought for 5 years stem cell researchers could finally make some progress like for spinal injuries and get a direct brain wave version that requires no physical input at all, just think the commands, call that one the Darwin. Lou get on this - we can make a truckload of money here.
> 
> but yr all missing the symbolism here, look at the shape of a flexi when standing on its base, what do ya see???? look harder - its half a heart (the handle bit is clearly the aorta), we are just waiting for you rigids to pick up a flexi then the two halves of the shattered heart can finally come together and there will be just love between all of us. do we not all bleed red, does not to the paragon of virtue and the mother of nations the queen of england herself take dumps on the little throne while reading the funny section of the sunday paper (senior members explain to the young ones blogger generation what sheet news is, sheeeeet news haha thats funny, blogging while bogging - too much).
> 
> and for the poster that commented about making love with nature whatever - you know 100 years ago on the east coast you would have been burned at the stake by well meaning puritans, just sayin.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

See I told you I tend to agree with you more often then not. 

LOVE the way you put such a fine sharp point on the end.

Well done!!




selzer said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> 
> Usually by the time people are ready to go to a dog show, they have found their way to a trainer who encourages people to show.
> 
> Trainers who encourage people to show (not just conformation), usually start their classes with the requirement for a six foot leash. Often they discuss the variety of leashes and training collars available and the problems associated with them. Trainers will require a six foot leash, but may use a long line or a flexi for recall -- I always opt for a long line because there is less chance of injury with the long line.
> 
> Usually dog shows are put on by a club where they ask for volunteers -- club members to take on various jobs at the show. Most likely the lady at the door was not the organizer of the event. It was probably a volunteer who may not have been well versed on what to say to the person with the kids that are jumping all over a competitor's boat, or the guy bringing a dog in with a flexi-lead. So she said it doesn't look professional which struck a nerve.
> 
> So what? It doesn't look professional. If you can buy it at WalMart or the dollar store, you probably won't find it at a dog show. Just like if you can find it at WalMart, you won't find it at a bicycle race or long tour. The cheap junk at WalMart is simply not for professionals. As kids we grew out of anything they have to offer, and we started hanging out at the bike shop where we could find parts and equipment that could hold up to what we could give it and weigh less than half what the junk and WalMart weighs.
> 
> Same deal with dogs. No, you are unlikely to see the same toys, bowls, beds, crates, collars or leads, that you will find at WalMart. You can get flexi-leads and prong collars and E-collars at PetsMart. But that does not mean they are welcome at shows. PetsMart caters more to the pet-people, rather than the people who show. And evenso, their prongs are junk, and I believe their e-collars are mostly junk too.
> 
> If you are serious, you get equipment specifically designed for the sport, whatever the sport, cycling, dressage, conformation, obedience, tracking, protection. Doesn't matter.
> 
> The crap at WalMart is for people who have dog lovers on the Christmas list and they have to buy us something, and they find a cool leash thingy that has a flashlight, radio, doggy poop bags, and a first aide kit all in one. -- Yeah I have a couple at home. I can't throw them away. I won't regift them. I use them to hold open a crate or door.
> 
> But no one at a show would be cought dead with such a contraption. It would be like arriving for a bicycle race on a baloon-tired Huffy with a spring seat.
> 
> I think people make up threads like this one, either because things have been rather boring lately, or because people really like to make up any excuse to diss the people at dog shows or other dog events.
> 
> So, OP if you read this far, why don't you get a life, and let other people enjoy the things that you don't care about anyway?


----------



## Mrs.K

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Symbolism? Nah, nothing so deep. You're just a trouble maker on this board who can be somewhat amusing in the current (but fading) non-PC is cool sort-a way. As you travel through life you attract the kind of energy you put out..it's the only way you know....so just for fun...
> 
> You got your knickers in a wad because a club had a rule you didn't like and came here to vent about it, just for kicks, stir the pot. It really doesn't matter that much in the scheme of things.
> 
> btw- I bet your groups idea of fashion is post '70 GI Joe with a splash of 'here hold my beer an watch this' details.


:thumbup:

Where is that like button when you need one.


----------



## DaniFani

Gwenhwyfair said:


> btw- I bet your groups idea of fashion is post '70 GI Joe with a splash of 'here hold my beer an watch this' details.


Bahahahaha! Love it!

I'll bite on the flexi debate...not sure why people are so committed to any ONE leash..I myself have a spending problem when it comes to my dogs, you name the leash I probably have it. You know the sad part, my favorite isn't my nice leather one, the flexi one, OR my hand braided human/horse hair one (don't ask me where you can find one...I'd have to kill you)...but my neon green, crappy, walmart quality, nylon one. That's right, I like it because of it's color...GASP! (and my SchH club gets a good laugh at all my neon green accessories). 

But in all seriousness, not prefering the flexi, for me, has nothing to do with losing my legs/arms from one, or because of some anecdotal story of some "ankle biter" attacking someone (user error on that one), I just HATE the handle. There is only one way to hold it, and I switch hands, pull it in short (just easier for me to do manually than with a weird button/handle do-hicky), sometimes I like to drop the lead (can't really let the dog drag that handle away, unless I want the scene from The Jungle Book when Kahn is running around with his tail caught on fire), and if you want to, for whatever reason, grab the leash with both hands, you have this ginormous, obnoxious, thing on the end of a lead that may or may not be unraveling lol. 

Anywhoo, so for me it's personal, but I understand the TOOL being used for recall training, or for people who want there dog to have some space, or people that don't mind the handle. So there, I participated in this silly debate. 

Edit: Haha I just re-read my post and I can see how some might get this picture of me standing next to my GSD all tangled in a flexi, swearing and yelling about how stupid it is, with the handle swinging around hitting everything. I promise I know how to properly use one. I just do not like that handle lol.


----------



## Blanketback

Mikelia, they do come in 26' length. Check out this little beauty:
FlexiUSA Shop - Giant XL
Just over 2 lbs and no weight limit! Sweet - and what a nice handle design. So much better than my clunky old version that does weigh a ton. My local retailer will only special order these more expensive versions, because the customers get sticker shock and can't comprehend a flexi costing over $75, lol. I know, I asked him.

I have a quite a few leashes myself, and like other people here have mentioned, I use the leash that suits the circumstances. But it's so nice to have the option of a flexi with a dog that's trained to respect the radius. He can be behind me and then he can bound ahead of me, having a great time. A long line wouldn't be practical is this situation, since I'd have to drag it or reel it in all the time, and it would get covered in filth, yuck. I like the retractable feature of the flexi.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

(thanks Dani and Mrs K.  )

RE Below:

People buy and use Flexi's all the time, they are very popular and easily available from the cheap-o models to more expensive models and brands.

The problem arises under certain sets of circumstances. Clubs or events that are set up for the general public to access with their pets do have the right to establish rules for safety. The concerns about flexi's in crowded public events is well founded.

As far as using them for training I've yet to see someone training IPO pull one out of their equipment bag on or near the field for use in training. If it were a really good training tool then people would use them.

We've had several experienced SAR people who have explained in detail why they don't like using Flexi's for SAR or tracking. It's not a prejudice it's a matter of functionality not fitting their needs.

So if you want to use a flexi that's fine but _the arguments_ put forth by the OP are, well, quite frankly silly.



Blanketback said:


> Mikelia, they do come in 26' length. Check out this little beauty:
> FlexiUSA Shop - Giant XL
> Just over 2 lbs and no weight limit! Sweet - and what a nice handle design. So much better than my clunky old version that does weigh a ton. My local retailer will only special order these more expensive versions, because the customers get sticker shock and can't comprehend a flexi costing over $75, lol. I know, I asked him.
> 
> I have a quite a few leashes myself, and like other people here have mentioned, I use the leash that suits the circumstances. But it's so nice to have the option of a flexi with a dog that's trained to respect the radius. He can be behind me and then he can bound ahead of me, having a great time. A long line wouldn't be practical is this situation, since I'd have to drag it or reel it in all the time, and it would get covered in filth, yuck. I like the retractable feature of the flexi.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Symbolism? Nah, nothing so deep. You're just a trouble maker on this board who can be somewhat amusing in the current (but fading) non-PC is cool sort-a way. As you travel through life you attract the kind of energy you put out..it's the only way you know....so just for fun...
> 
> You got your knickers in a wad because a club had a rule you didn't like and came here to vent about it, just for kicks, stir the pot. It really doesn't matter that much in the scheme of things.
> 
> btw- I bet your groups idea of fashion is post '70 GI Joe with a splash of 'here hold my beer an watch this' details.


:thumbup:

I never considered myself physically challenged either. In fact I am in pretty good condition. I even have my head on straight.


----------



## Blanketback

Gwenhwyfair said:


> As far as using them for training I've yet to see someone training IPO pull one out of their equipment bag on or near the field for use in training. If it were a really good training tool then people would use them.
> 
> So if you want to use a flexi that's fine but _the arguments_ put forth by the OP are, well, quite frankly silly.


Training applies to everything - it's not a word than can be used exclusively for IPO or SAR. People do use them for training - although I fully understand why some people wouldn't find them an appropriate choice, depending on what they're doing with their dogs. 

Perhaps OP's arguments were silly (and hey, who doesn't like a red safari suit?!) however, some of the counter-arguments were downright illogical, lol. I think my favorite was the comment someone's trainer had made, about how flexi's have more warnings than chainsaws, lol. But the prevailing attitude: that they're dangerous because people misuse them, is wrong. Put the blame where it belongs - not on the device, but on the person misusing it. Used properly, they're not dangerous or a nuisance.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

OP is bein' way silly and actually he's the one who brought up training/tracking/SAR and protection with a Flexi in an attempt to justify his rant.

I personally don't like them. I've used many different kinds on many different dogs over the years (not mine, the owners) and find I have much less control and you have to worry about mechanical failure. So I gave them a chance but I don't like them because to me they are not a tool whose functionality fits the purpose of training well. Yes you can use them, are they the best? Definately not. How is my opinion reinforced as being accurate, I look to more experienced trainers who have been there done that and they aren't using them either.

So for these reasons I have concluded flexi's are not a good tool for training. Again, that doesn't mean you cannot use them for training, they maybe more convenient but they aren't better then long lines.

I used long lines for horses (cotton lunge lines) and I like using them for dogs too. Once you get the 'feel' of using long lines you usually won't like using a flexi. I'm not saying this to be unkind, so please don't take this wrong, but I don't mind my hands getting dirty cause yeah the lines can get yucky. If it's cold or really muddy gloves can used (nuemann's tackified are my favs, good grip but you still have 'feel').

If you want to use them you certianly can but they IMO they set people up for failure more then helping them train.








Blanketback said:


> Training applies to everything - it's not a word than can be used exclusively for IPO or SAR. People do use them for training - although I fully understand why some people wouldn't find them an appropriate choice, depending on what they're doing with their dogs.
> 
> Perhaps OP's arguments were silly (and hey, who doesn't like a red safari suit?!) however, some of the counter-arguments were downright illogical, lol. I think my favorite was the comment someone's trainer had made, about how flexi's have more warnings than chainsaws, lol. But the prevailing attitude: that they're dangerous because people misuse them, is wrong. Put the blame where it belongs - not on the device, but on the person misusing it. Used properly, they're not dangerous or a nuisance.


----------



## Blanketback

You're brave! I'd never dream of using a flexi with someone else's dog. Not the ones I know, anyway, lol. Too unruly. 

I'm actually going to get myself a nice cotton line, since the nylon I'm using for my tie-out works just as poorly as the flexi cord, lol. Ouch! 

Op is funny! You know he's saying things just to push your buttons, and every time it works it just gets even funnier. We're definitely not bored with him around, lol. Plus, he's a brazen flirt, lmao.


----------



## Mrs.K

I wouldnt even give this topic any more time of the day. It is a waste of time and so sensless to argue over a flexi lead. OP apparently knows better anyways


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Not brave, just didn't know enough and it was the equipment given to me to use. I liked the idea of the Flexis at first. I learned my lesson. 

Cotton is best, I agree! I have a nylon tracking line that I'll give away for free! 

eh, he pushed the line on this one a little too much. Every good comedian knows there's a limit to how far to push things.



Blanketback said:


> You're brave! I'd never dream of using a flexi with someone else's dog. Not the ones I know, anyway, lol. Too unruly.
> 
> I'm actually going to get myself a nice cotton line, since the nylon I'm using for my tie-out works just as poorly as the flexi cord, lol. Ouch!
> 
> Op is funny! You know he's saying things just to push your buttons, and every time it works it just gets even funnier. We're definitely not bored with him around, lol. Plus, he's a brazen flirt, lmao.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

:thumbup:



Mrs.K said:


> I wouldnt even give this topic any more time of the day. It is a waste of time and so sensless to argue over a flexi lead. OP apparently knows better anyways


----------



## carmspack

actually hemp is better than cotton.


----------



## GSDElsa

Actually leather is better than all of the above


----------



## Blanketback

Gwenhwyfair said:


> eh, he pushed the line on this one a little too much. Every good comedian knows there's a limit to how far to push things.





x11 said:


> ... why not improve on it and get a full screen, touch screen remote with a split screen with a live feed to facebook... invent a clip on yr lapel VOX activated control version even less motor skills involved, could call that one "the Hawking"...get a direct brain wave version that requires no physical input at all, just think the commands, call that one the Darwin.


His quote above made up for everything else, IMO. I almost choked reading about the Darwin, lmao! Serious comedy going on - I'll be willing test audience for his stand-up routine. As long as I don't spit liquid onto my laptop, it's all good.


----------



## carmspack

re hemp fibres - ". In comparison to cotton, hemp fibres are longer, stronger, morelustrous and absorbent, and more mildew resistant.
Hemp textiles are extremely versatile – they are used in the production of clothing, shoes, apparel, canvas, rugs and upholstery.

*Is hemp more ecologically friendly than cotton?*
Anything that can be made from cotton can be made from hemp. Hemp's long fibres give it the strength to create a finished product that is much stronger and more durable than one produced from cotton. Just as hemp can be cultivated instead of trees, it can also be grown in place of cotton, with environmental benefits.
Cotton is one of the most environmentally destructive agricultural crops. In pesticide use in the US alone, is staggering – 125 million kilograms annually. "

"Hemp fibre bundles are up to fifteen feet long while cotton fibres are less than an inch. Hemp has eight times the tensile strength and four times the durability of cotton. Hemp is more absorbent than cotton and therefore takes dyes better." 

in full - Hemp Fibres


----------



## NancyJ

We can thank Dupont for killing the hemp market because they wanted to push Nylon for ropes and Dupont's vast forest holdings for pulp, and got the laws strenghthened to criminalize hemp which even George Washington grew before that. They knew then that hemp was a superior fiber and very "green" compared to wood.

Of course the use of cannabis for psychoactive purposes was controversial before that but so was alcohol.


----------



## carmspack

leather can get heavy when wet, can't be laundered, needs extra care and attention. Hemp or the "gripper" leashes are what I like to use. No mildew of weakening


----------



## Blanketback

Which would be better on bare hands, leather or hemp? I already learned my lesson with nylon, lol.


----------



## carmspack

The world sea powers relied on hemp for rigging and sails and sacks.

I had a pair of hemp pants that wore like well broken in butter soft denim. Rugged as all get out . After 10 years of wearing them they finally developed a split in the knee .
Very comfortable in hot weather , dried quickly when wet .

Another huge benefit is efficiency in land use , which the deep root of the hemp actually helps improve , and pesticides and herbicides not needed. win - win .


----------



## carmspack

hemp is less thick , so folds nicely into the hand , gives better feel or feedback.


----------



## sunsets

x11 said:


> i got to thinking that there is a social hierachy re leashes and collars that goes something like;
> 
> top of the social ladder you have the round braided from natural fibres of highly endangered tree-climbing jungle mountain camels favoured by the high falutin save the rainforest types in a fat white people join my religion and i will give you a free television set - oh you don't have electricity how cute condescending kind of way.
> 
> 
> followed by the hand-made by amish fifth generation puppy millers flat 6 foot leather leash crowd
> 
> 
> below that and a looooong way below that is the standard white trash nylon leash
> 
> and at the botom of the ladder is the flexi-lead crowd


Where do recycled bike tire tube leashes fit in your hierarchy? They're eco-friendly which puts me at the top of the list. However, mine also comes equipped with a bottle opener, so maybe that moves it down some 

Seriously, I love that leash - it can get wet, it's easy to clean, and it's a bit stretchy so my arms and wrists get a little cushioning if Heinz hits the end of it too fast.


----------



## FlyAway

Mrs.K said:


> Not true at all. My Facebook friends helped me get my dog back. Without them, it would not have been possible. It also lets me keep in touch with my family. Most of the stuff on my facebook is dog related anyways...


My Facebook is 98% dog related: Dog breeder/owner contacts all over the world, puppy announcement groups, dog show groups, breed health and conformation groups. Lot's of Malinois people on Facebook.  Yes, sometimes I post a photo of something or other. If you are not using facebook to network, you are really missing out.

I'm glad you got your dog back, Mrs. K. I didn't know about it, or I would have helped out.


----------



## Blanketback

Thank you Carmen, good point about the rigging. And I would like to support the hemp farmers. Hemp it is.


----------



## FlyAway

selzer said:


> Actually, if I went with to a dog-event, and the general public was welcome with their dogs (did not have to be entered to have the dog there), and there were flexi-leads being used, I would turn around and leave. I would not trust people to all have their dogs under control at their sides.


I was at the Kentucky Horse Park last year with my dog. There was a lady with a Golden Retriever on a flexi who was letting the dog wander all over and walking up to strangers in a crowded stabling area. She even let her dog wander towards my dog, but I gave her a dirtly look and backed away. 

Yeah, Goldens are known to be friendly, they are also known to be viscious. Either way, I don't want an unknown dog, with unknown temperament, and unknown vaccinations walking up to my dog. If I was without a dog, I would feel the same way. Heck, my stupid neighbor doesn't even vaccinate his dog. I don't go near it!


----------



## sunsets

FlyAway said:


> I was at the Kentucky Horse Park last year with my dog. There was a lady with a Golden Retriever on a flexi who was letting the dog wander all over and walking up to strangers in a crowded stabling area. She even let her dog wander towards my dog, but I gave her a dirtly look and backed away.


Ooh, reminds me of the time at the barn the owner brought her little American Eskimo in on a Flexi. He got himself wrapped around the back legs of a horse, who, naturally, kicked out. The Flexi acted like a slingshot and that little sucker went flying down the barn aisle. Lots of screaming all around, but no human, dog, or horse was hurt.


----------



## Castlemaid

Having a dog on a flexi around horses - that is one of the stupidest things I've heard of! 

(Disclaimer: I am a flexi fan, used in proper context)


----------



## Shade

sunsets said:


> Ooh, reminds me of the time at the barn the owner brought her little American Eskimo in on a Flexi. He got himself wrapped around the back legs of a horse, who, naturally, kicked out. The Flexi acted like a slingshot and that little sucker went flying down the barn aisle. Lots of screaming all around, but no human, dog, or horse was hurt.


 Wow!


----------



## Chicagocanine

Beta biothane is my new favorite.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

Chicagocanine said:


> Beta biothane is my new favorite.


Mine too, but I do like the recyled tire rubber leashes as well. Have several of each for daily walking. I use nice leather for showing.


----------



## selzer

I use cotton long lines. I think I have seen the hemp, but for some reason they are more expensive, and my feeling for hemp producers as opposed to cotton farmers, does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about spending more money. 

Cotton long lines will break if you:
a. run them over with a riding lawn mower, and then
b. wrap them around a tree, and then
c. leave them there for about 2 years in a NE Ohio climate. 

Don't ask me how I know, just trust me. 

Any thing that can wind up 16 or 25 feet into a plastic mechanism is going to have to be small and either a cord or a tape both of which will not have the strength to manage a formidable dog running full tilt to the end of it, and will do damage if it wraps around a bare whatever in the process of a formidable dog running full tilt at whatever. And some of them when they snap, can snap back at you. 

Once upon a time I was drawing back a compound bow, and it had a sight that was connected to the bow string and the back of the bow itself by a rubber length of tubing. Well, that bad baby snapped and cut me just over my eye, and when I let the string go in my panic, the darn thing tore up my inner arm. I guess I am a little over-cautious about mechanisims that retract lengths of cable or tape.


----------



## Lilie

selzer said:


> Once upon a time I was drawing back a compound bow, and it had a sight that was connected to the bow string and the back of the bow itself by a rubber length of tubing. Well, that bad baby snapped and cut me just over my eye, and when I let the string go in my panic, the darn thing tore up my inner arm. I guess I am a little over-cautious about mechanisims that retract lengths of cable or tape.


Ow..Ow..Ow..Ow..Ow...The very first time I used a recurve bow...I dried fired it. Just as my husband (who was setting up the target) was saying "Never dry fire a recurve". Ow..Ow..Ow..


----------



## carmspack

what does this mean " and my feeling for hemp producers as opposed to cotton farmers, does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about spending more money"?


----------



## blehmannwa

For some reason the hemp thing reminds me of my teenager's disappointment when he went to Hempfest and found out that it was about hemp.


----------



## selzer

LOL, I used a recurve before I bought my little hicountry. But then I gave that bow to my nephew for his archery patch. I never dry fired it though. It does not sound fun. 

What does that mean, Carmen? It means that I don't care about hemp farmers anymore than I care about cotton farmers. Whoever produces a quality product for the lowest price will get my business. Around here anyway, the cotton leads/long lines are cheaper than hemp. So I buy the cotton. 

Cotton is easier on your hands than nylon in my opinion, so I don't buy the nylon leads at all. I am sure I have a few though. I like leather, but a long leather line would be too pricey. I have a few 4' and 6' leather leads. But for a long line, cotton seems to be the most sensible for me.


----------



## GSDElsa

I managed to use leather equipment 3-day eventing my horse for 20 years. Really not many downsides. But my previous comment was more of a joke than anything.


----------



## x11

i would go the hemp leash over cotton if i knew a supplier just on account of the historic corruption and levels of environmental degradation associated with cotton farming and the way the most patriotic fibre hemp was vilified.

reefer madness - YouTube


----------



## selzer

x11 said:


> i would go the hemp leash over cotton if i knew a supplier just on account of the historic corruption and levels of environmental degradation associated with cotton farming and the way the most patriotic fibre hemp was vilified.
> 
> reefer madness - YouTube


I suppose if we try hard enough, we can politicise anything. I really am not all that fussed about the environment really. I think we think we can do more than we can do with regards to it, and even if you keep your carbon footprint miniscule, one politician's private jet thundering back and forth across the country will wipe out all that scrimping and saving and recycling.


----------



## x11

anyhoo for those that are late here is some recollections of the thread that has prolly run it's natural course;

firstly: kudos to Carmen for supplying the hugh hefner jump suit link, mine is on back order. any members good with photoshop replace my man-boobies with some chiseled pecs?

secondly: i felt condemmed at times for omitting various peoples fav leash types in the hierachy, where does beta-biothane sit, my green fleuro nylon wasn't in there, hemp versus cotton.....for chrissakes it was a first draft. sure with more time and resources i would have constructed a multi-dimensional hypercube with other parameters in the social hierachy eg size and colour of yr dog, doggy diet, pedigree, training venue......you could cut a hypersurface thru it and postition yrself in the social hierachy and use it to judge others but it was just in the embrionic conceptual phase...help a brother out here.

thirdly: i thought it lol worthy that the folks that thought the thread was a huge waste of their precious time spent the* most time* on it posting their long disorganised and illogical posts over and over, what's up with that?

"fourthly": as long as democracy rules we are free to choose from a wide range of training tools each for a different purpose, just know the why and how to use it and you will be fine. 

peace


----------



## x11

selzer said:


> I suppose if we try hard enough, we can politicise anything. I really am not all that fussed about the environment really. I think we think we can do more than we can do with regards to it, and even if you keep your carbon footprint miniscule, one politician's private jet thundering back and forth across the country will wipe out all that scrimping and saving and recycling.


 
for the sake of your soul you need a good sitting down with and a talking to. that post was horrible.


----------



## Switchblade906

X11 your hilarious.


----------



## NuclearJesus

Just a neat little story I had with a flexi. When my Border Collie/Spitz mix was a puppy we took her out for a walk with a flexi we found in the closet. I set it on the ground for a second to tie my shoe and she took a few steps and dragged the thing behind her. The noise scared the crap out of her and she took off at full speed running in circles with the flexi banging around behind her. I ran up and tried to step on it and the **** thing wrapped around my leg and hit me in the nuts. BUT I regained control of it for about 5 seconds before dropped it out of sheer agony. And the whole thing started over, this time it wrapped around my other leg, leaving nice rope burn scars... My wife finally caught her and I promptly dismembered the thing on the pavement (after I unhooked it) and threw away the pieces. So yeah, no Flexi for me...ever again.


----------



## x11

NuclearJesus said:


> *... My wife finally caught her and I promptly dismembered the thing on the pavement (after I unhooked it) and threw away the pieces.....*


 
you killed and dismembered yr dog you psycho???


----------



## Sunflowers

NuclearJesus said:


> Just a neat little story I had with a flexi. When my Border Collie/Spitz mix was a puppy we took her out for a walk with a flexi we found in the closet. I set it on the ground for a second to tie my shoe and she took a few steps and dragged the thing behind her. The noise scared the crap out of her and she took off at full speed running in circles with the flexi banging around behind her. I ran up and tried to step on it and the **** thing wrapped around my leg and hit me in the nuts. BUT I regained control of it for about 5 seconds before dropped it out of sheer agony. And the whole thing started over, this time it wrapped around my other leg, leaving nice rope burn scars... My wife finally caught her and I promptly dismembered the thing on the pavement (after I unhooked it) and threw away the pieces. So yeah, no Flexi for me...ever again.


I'm laughing so hard that I am coughing.
I read this out loud to my husband and son, however, and they did not think it was funny. :rofl:


----------



## Sunflowers

selzer said:


> What does that mean, Carmen? It means that I don't care about hemp farmers anymore than I care about cotton farmers. Whoever produces a quality product for the lowest price will get my business. Around here anyway, the cotton leads/long lines are cheaper than hemp. So I buy cotton...most sensible for me.


Yeah, but can ya smoke cotton? Huh? Huh? :wild:


----------



## selzer

Sunflowers said:


> Yeah, but can ya smoke cotton? Huh? Huh? :wild:


I was wondering if those were dual purpose leads


----------



## Myah's Mom

x11 said:


> so drove 3 hours to some gsd shindig, people with loud suits everywhere. put the dog on nylon collar and flexi-leash and walked into the joint, i swear folks took more notice of my leash & collar than my dog. i got asked by head honcho lady (why is it always women that organise and run these things) to use a real leash and lose the flexi, was my dog out of control - no, i asked why for? i didn't bring another leash (i love the flexi-leash), she said "well a woman in america lost her fingers using a flexi-leash" and that they "look unprofessional" and "we project a proffesional image at this club". i'm like gee, a lady in america lost her fingers and then raised both hands (palms in) wriggled my fingers and less than subtley lowered all except the middle fingers on each hand.
> 
> thought it wasn't going anywhere productive so bundled dog in truck and i guess the bleeding heart guy in the club followed me out and said hey nice dog why don't you come back in and pulled out a flat 6 foot leather leash and said here you can use this. i looked at his bright red safari suit and said thanks man but i don't think this is my scene and left.
> 
> i got to thinking that there is a social hierachy re leashes and collars that goes something like;
> 
> top of the social ladder you have the round braided from natural fibres of highly endangered tree-climbing jungle mountain camels favoured by the high falutin save the rainforest types in a fat white people join my religion and i will give you a free television set - oh you don't have electricity how cute condescending kind of way.
> 
> 
> followed by the hand-made by amish fifth generation puppy millers flat 6 foot leather leash crowd
> 
> 
> below that and a looooong way below that is the standard white trash nylon leash
> 
> and at the botom of the ladder is the flexi-lead crowd
> 
> so what's up with the flexi-lead to attract such scorn of the cool kids, i think they are the greatest invention going, i love em. even designing one to work off a harness for bite-work and tracking, am i missing the point?


:silly: Wow, I joined this thread late (like showing up after the party is over) - dammit! 

My initial thought was "I hate, hate, hate flexi-leashes", but then I realized it's not the leash I hate, it's the small yappers with incompetent owners that I hate. And then upon further thought, why blame the little yapper dog? It's their owners I have such distaste for.

My dog at a heel on 6' leash + your yapper on a flexi coming at us like a popcorn popper on meth = dog bite not my fault. RIP Little Popcorn and I'm sorry you had an incompetent owner... opcorn:


----------



## selzer

Myah's Mom said:


> :silly: Wow, I joined this thread late (like showing up after the party is over) - dammit!
> 
> My initial thought was "I hate, hate, hate flexi-leashes", but then I realized it's not the leash I hate, it's the small yappers with incompetent owners that I hate. And then upon further thought, why blame the little yapper dog? It's their owners I have such distaste for.
> 
> My dog at a heel on 6' leash + your yapper on a flexi coming at us like a popcorn popper on meth = dog bite not my fault. RIP Little Popcorn and I'm sorry you had an incompetent owner... opcorn:


That's a question though. If you have your GSD on a six foot leash and he has maybe 2 foot to manage with, under control, heeling at your side. And the Yorkie, popcorn on meth, on a flexi-lead charges barking up to your dog and into your dog's face, and your dog does a quick grab and shake, and the six pound Yorkie dies. 

Who would be in trouble? Both dogs are on leads, and a case can be made that neither was under control. I wouldn't want to risk my GSD with how the courts might rule.


----------



## Myah's Mom

I was being cheeky  

My dog better not bite unless he/she made an appropriate protective decision or did it on command.

I just stomp my foot down loudly and start helicoptering my leash, staring down the little yapper with such intensity, it usually bolts.


----------



## selzer

Yeah, but I bet there are people on this site with dogs that are DA enough to kill the Yorkie that rushes right up to it. As GSD owners, we might say the Yorkie, definitely -- owners too bad. 

But what about a GSD puppy on a flexi. What if it runs right up to/into a DA GSD an it grabs and shakes. And the puppy dies. Do we feel differently about that? Is it too bad little GSD Puppy. Or, should someone with a DA dog only come off their property muzzled? 

I don't like Flexies. I think they are dangerous. Most of the people that have them don't have a clue. And they are really dangerous in the hands of clueless people.


----------



## Msmaria

NuclearJesus said:


> Just a neat little story I had with a flexi. When my Border Collie/Spitz mix was a puppy we took her out for a walk with a flexi we found in the closet. I set it on the ground for a second to tie my shoe and she took a few steps and dragged the thing behind her. The noise scared the crap out of her and she took off at full speed running in circles with the flexi banging around behind her. I ran up and tried to step on it and the **** thing wrapped around my leg and hit me in the nuts. BUT I regained control of it for about 5 seconds before dropped it out of sheer agony. And the whole thing started over, this time it wrapped around my other leg, leaving nice rope burn scars... My wife finally caught her and I promptly dismembered the thing on the pavement (after I unhooked it) and threw away the pieces. So yeah, no Flexi for me...ever again.


I should not have read this with food in my mouth...lol...so sorry you had to go through that, but oh so funny.

As a small dog owner I would never put my dogs on a flexi leash, too many big dogs out there. I like them close to me, especially when I see these big dogs that are dragging their owners through the park.


----------



## Myah's Mom

I just want to give a shout out to the humor of x11 and the funny nature of this thread. It's good to laugh at ourselves (and others) once in a while...

x11, have you devised a social heirarchy of collars?

Anxiously awaiting before I go shopping. We need to ditch Myah's pepto bismol pink one...:laugh:


----------



## volcano

I have a homemade ecollar with a red wagon and 2 12 volt deep cycle batteries, where do I stand on the list???


----------



## frillint1

I used to use one with my boy, but have come to realize I can not control him well and he pulls in front of me like crazy on it no matter how hard i try to correct him and get him next to my side. I now use the 6 ft leash and he walks great and I have control. Once on the flexi he pulled toward a dog I could tell was aggressive or unsure and I was trying to reel him back in and the leash got all the was out and got stuck all the way out.

I wont walk him with that leash anymore on walks or in public. I do use it in my backyard though, but that's it. I don't think I have seen one person including me that used a flexi and had their dog under control.


----------



## dOg

little dogs simply can't be corrected, so flexi leads at least keep them attached...they do tend to be poorly trained, if at alll.
they likely know all the commands and will do anything for a treat in the house or yard, but the distractions of other places overwhelm any sensibility they might otherwise exhibit, plus they know they are tiny, so feel a need to be loud.

just saying, if you've never had a tiny canine, you don't understand their issues, and some sympathy for the owners might be forthcoming if you thought about it.


----------



## x11

frillint1 said:


> I don't think I have seen one person including me that used a flexi and had their dog under control.


 
wow, so glad i don't live where you live.


----------



## selzer

I am surprised that no one has mentioned collar-leash combinations, and especially the flexi-prong combo that most of us have seen and scratched our heads over. 

X11, could you give your best psyco-analysis of the person who uses a flexi with a prong collar?

I mean, would this suggest someone who is seriously conflicted. They want their dog to have fun and freedom in a controlling sort a fashion? I know you can give a better stab at that then I can.


----------



## x11

selzer said:


> X11, could you give your best psyco-analysis of the person who uses a flexi with a prong collar?


 
hmmm, i of course will have to imagine you laid out before me on my couch for this.

my preliminary analysis suggests a deep seated trauma rooted in a childhood conflict possibly with yr mother.

tell me, did you actually want a pony but you instead got a dog for your 10'th birthday?

this will take some time to get at.


----------



## Msmaria

dOg said:


> little dogs simply can't be corrected, so flexi leads at least keep them attached...they do tend to be poorly trained, if at alll.
> they likely know all the commands and will do anything for a treat in the house or yard, but the distractions of other places overwhelm any sensibility they might otherwise exhibit, plus they know they are tiny, so feel a need to be loud.
> 
> just saying, if you've never had a tiny canine, you don't understand their issues, and some sympathy for the owners might be forthcoming if you thought about it.


Yep its always the little ones that are boasty, loud and ignorant.


----------



## x11

so trainability is genetically linked to size of dog?? 

what that; 

big frame = big brain = good train....


crack myself up


----------



## Myah's Mom

selzer said:


> I am surprised that no one has mentioned collar-leash combinations, and especially the flexi-prong combo that most of us have seen and scratched our heads over.
> 
> X11, could you give your best psyco-analysis of the person who uses a flexi with a prong collar?
> 
> I mean, would this suggest someone who is seriously conflicted. They want their dog to have fun and freedom in a controlling sort a fashion? I know you can give a better stab at that then I can.


LOLOLOL! opcorn:


----------



## Castlemaid

Do you know what is WORSE than a flexi on a prong? (disclamer: I LOVE flexis, and I LOVE prongs, but flexi is flexi, and prong is prong, and never shall the twain meet [with apologies to Rudyard Kippling]). How about a flexi attached to a head halter? I kid you not, one guy was walking his lab in town with a 16 foot flexi attached to a head halter.

Control? Dog just braced his neck and PULLED the owner, at the very end of the 16 foot leash, who was now running to keep up with pulling dog, across four lanes of busy highway! Kept wondering what thought process this guy went through to come up with that combination on a dog that just pulled him across traffic anyways . . .


----------



## Myah's Mom

Castlemaid said:


> Do you know what is WORSE than a flexi on a prong? (disclamer: I LOVE flexis, and I LOVE prongs, but flexi is flexi, and prong is prong, and never shall the twain meet [with apologies to Rudyard Kippling]). How about a flexi attached to a head halter? I kid you not, one guy was walking his lab in town with a 16 foot flexi attached to a head halter.
> 
> Control? Dog just braced his neck and PULLED the owner, at the very end of the 16 foot leash, who was now running to keep up with pulling dog, across four lanes of busy highway! Kept wondering what thought process this guy went through to come up with that combination on a dog that just pulled him across traffic anyways . . .


:hammer: "Stupid can't be fixed". LMAO!


----------



## selzer

Castlemaid said:


> Do you know what is WORSE than a flexi on a prong? (disclamer: I LOVE flexis, and I LOVE prongs, but flexi is flexi, and prong is prong, and never shall the twain meet [with apologies to Rudyard Kippling]). How about a flexi attached to a head halter? I kid you not, one guy was walking his lab in town with a 16 foot flexi attached to a head halter.
> 
> Control? Dog just braced his neck and PULLED the owner, at the very end of the 16 foot leash, who was now running to keep up with pulling dog, across four lanes of busy highway! Kept wondering what thought process this guy went through to come up with that combination on a dog that just pulled him across traffic anyways . . .



That's funny, 

scary, 

but funny. 

Makes you wonder if 90% of the population would starve to death if we lived in an agrarian society where pretty much everyone had to handle cows and horses and such. 

Back when that was the case, graduating from high school wasn't the norm. Now we have all these high school graduates that couldn't start a fire to save their lives, and hook flexi-leads to halti's and prongs.


----------



## Dainerra

dOg said:


> little dogs simply can't be corrected, so flexi leads at least keep them attached...they do tend to be poorly trained, if at alll.
> they likely know all the commands and will do anything for a treat in the house or yard, but the distractions of other places overwhelm any sensibility they might otherwise exhibit, plus they know they are tiny, so feel a need to be loud.
> 
> just saying, if you've never had a tiny canine, you don't understand their issues, and some sympathy for the owners might be forthcoming if you thought about it.



I know many small dogs that are very well-trained. Of course they can be corrected. And they can learn to behave in public and have manners and be quiet.
Just because the majority of the public doesn't bother to train doesn't mean that it can't be done


----------



## Mrs.K

Today a friend of mine showed me flexi leash burns on her leg...holy cow, those look bad...

I gave her one of my prongs and showed her how to use it properly inclucing the leash. She sent a mail later on that she has never had a more relaxed walk...

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## x11

Mrs.K said:


> Today a friend of mine showed me flexi leash burns on her leg...holy cow, those look bad...
> 
> I gave her one of my prongs and showed her how to use it properly inclucing the leash. She sent a mail later on that she has never had a more relaxed walk...
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 
i agree the flexi can be a dangerous piece of technology in the hands of physically and mentally inept.

folks are so desperate/lazy for a quick fix - 3 simple instructions and symptoms instantly stop type training methods.

i remember when people used to get enjoyment out of actually training their dog and developing and understanding and a bond with it, now it is just about - 

me want dog do this, me no like when dog do other, me not enjoy me walk when dog do other, gadget make dog do what me want, gadget good.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

well I encountered one of those mentally inept people with a flexi last week at the vets office.

Took Jag (male aussie 12 yrs old,) for his annual..Was in the waiting room, a woman comes out of the exam room with a JRT (senior dog), on a flexi, the dog is 10 ft in front of her coming straight for us..

She's following behind, just roaming along, I stood in front of my aussie (who probably would have been ok, but I don't know this JRT),,and blocked the JRT. 

I said "excuse me, could you reel your dog in?" gave me a dirty look and pulled him towards a seat with the flexi still about 5-6 ft out..sooooo he's roaming around the waiting room, I moved nearer an exam room door, and here he comes again..

AGAIN, I block him, and said "excuse me, but how do you know my dog isn't going to rip your dogs face off? Good thing we're in a vets office eh?" 

Nothing, woman must have been brain dead or it was to early on a monday morning for her to comprehend common courtesy...


----------



## Carriesue

I think some people are just in denial or just plain forget that dogs are predators with powerful jaws... That's the only explanation I can think of when it comes to these people!


----------



## x11

that just proves that mentally feeble people can be on the end of a flexi as much they can be on the end of any other leash or even no leash....

hardly a problem you can blame on the leash per se, but what would i know, i lack experience cos i never have the anywhere near the problems so many others have to deal with and i just never progress as a trainer. maybe i will start my next walk with 20 foot of flexi bundled in a knot around my feet as i attempt to cross a busy road with a bunch of cats in cages on the other side.


----------



## elizabethtrotchie

I only use my flexi-leash in my own yard. I see to much room for an accident when cars,people, and other dogs are around. But in my yard the flexi is quite fun.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## x11

super cool tool for training a fast recall on a puppy as well.


----------



## Mrs.K

x11 said:


> i agree the flexi can be a dangerous piece of technology in the hands of physically and mentally inept.
> 
> folks are so desperate/lazy for a quick fix - 3 simple instructions and symptoms instantly stop type training methods.
> 
> i remember when people used to get enjoyment out of actually training their dog and developing and understanding and a bond with it, now it is just about -
> 
> me want dog do this, me no like when dog do other, me not enjoy me walk when dog do other, gadget make dog do what me want, gadget good.


You do not even know my friend and what she has done or what kind of dog she owns and insult her as physicalky or mentally inept? 

She is taking classes and works her dog. The dog was a stray for most part of her life and has had some serious issues. She has worked the dog and nursed her back to healt h and you have the audacity to insult her as mentally inept? 

The flexi is nothing but a gadget either.
Yes, I did suggest a prong and the prong, used correctly, does work like a charm, because everytime a car is going by, that dog turns into a crazy tire chaser and going over threshold and even if the flexi is locked, it could easily snap.

So before you dont know all the facts, dont you dare insult my friend. Maybe you should take a good look at yourself before you say anything about my friend!
Your attitude in this topic towards people who dont want the flexi at THEIR event says everything about you, one needs to know, so does your desperate attempt to be funny, which clearly, you are not!



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## x11

hey i think i am funny...

yes i do not know all the facts about someone i don't know in another country whom i have never met and only know thru a few sentences as reported by her friend on a public forum, can't blame me for that.

actually i care less about the specific individuals posting as most of their deal is unknowable on such a forum, i look at it in strictly in terms of the issue discussed not the person.


----------



## Rallhaus

You said the function was supposed to be about posing a dog?

IMO a flexi lead was not the correct lead to have, and by bringing it, they most likely thought you were a hay seed.

The last conformation showing class I want too, the people were a bit bright in the clothing they chose to wear, my t-shirt and faded jeans were a bit out of dress code. But at least I had the correct equipment for the class.


----------



## Anubis_Star

I love the flexi lead for my controlled trained dogs because it gives them more room.

I can tell you from first hand experience 90% of people that use them have out of control dogs with no recall and owners that dont care. These dogs are getting into everything and even worse easily able to approach any one or any other dog. Thus leading to fights.

So yes unfortunately because the majority seem to misuse them they tend to have a bad stigma in the dog world.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## selzer

JakodaCD OA said:


> well I encountered one of those mentally inept people with a flexi last week at the vets office.
> 
> Took Jag (male aussie 12 yrs old,) for his annual..Was in the waiting room, a woman comes out of the exam room with a JRT (senior dog), on a flexi, the dog is 10 ft in front of her coming straight for us..
> 
> She's following behind, just roaming along, I stood in front of my aussie (who probably would have been ok, but I don't know this JRT),,and blocked the JRT.
> 
> I said "excuse me, could you reel your dog in?" gave me a dirty look and pulled him towards a seat with the flexi still about 5-6 ft out..sooooo he's roaming around the waiting room, I moved nearer an exam room door, and here he comes again..
> 
> AGAIN, I block him, and said* "excuse me, but how do you know my dog isn't going to rip your dogs face off? Good thing we're in a vets office eh?" *
> 
> Nothing, woman must have been brain dead or it was to early on a monday morning for her to comprehend common courtesy...


Maybe it would have been better to say, "excuse me, but my dog currently has distemper (or parvo, or lepto, or kennel caugh, whatever), and it's highly contagious."


----------



## Anubis_Star

I would LOVE to hang a sign on my clinic door saying "NO FLEXI LEADS ALLOWED" my favorite is when you have two owners each with two BIG dogs on flexi leads trying to pass eachother in the lobby and the dogs are growling and barking and going at each other. 4 dog fight with 4 flexi leads and 2 owners unable to even remotely control their dogs? Awesome!

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## x11

Anubis_Star said:


> So yes unfortunately because the majority seem to misuse them they tend to have a bad stigma in the dog world.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


the majority of people in the dog world have a bad stigma in the dog world???

geez :shocked:


----------



## x11

curious, how would people that have no recall and no control of their dog be that much better off with any type of leash?


----------



## selzer

x11 said:


> curious, how would people that have no recall and no control of their dog be that much better off with any type of leash?


Simple physics. 

A dog on a 4-6 foot leash has only 4-6 feet to build up speed. F=ma. Force = mass times acceleration. With the extra distance, the dog can build up a head of steam. 

Not so simple physics and mechanics. The plastic mechanism that has the capacity for a long tape to wind up within, will most likely not have enough surface area to have the strength to withhold the power of a dog that builds up a head of steam even if the owner does have that power. And since most leashes are used in all weathers, the plastic mechanism will have been subjected to hot and cold and wet, and therefore fatigue both in the winding mechanism and the plastic housing. 

I wouldn't trust it. My guess in why we do not see a lot of failures due to weathering of the housing/mechanism, is because people ababndon them or dropped (and broke them) before they have a chance.


----------



## x11

and when yr are about to enter a vet office you can't lock the flexi at 4-6 feet and have an "inflexi" with a handle - basic having a brain.


----------



## Anubis_Star

Apparently youve never seen 4 dogs and stupid owners involved in a fight with only flexi leads for control.

My 6 foot leather leash is MUCH stronger and easier to control. It gives to force, and does not stand the chance to injure my hands. I am able to hold it with two hands and use my whole body for levarage instead of just my one arm. A flexi lead is much thinner, and the longer line allows for more forcr to builf before it snaps. Much easier to snap the line. Thin chord injures hands easier. 

Btw often times when I take dogs to the back and the owners hand me their flexi leads to walk them back, the leads are usually broken from wear and tear. The snap doesnt automatically lock. Therefor the ONLY thing keeping the line at 4 ft vs 15 ft is the handlers thumb pressed on the control. God forbid your thumb slips or the handle is jerked as the dog becomes reactive and runs out after another dog.

Im glad you are the exception. The exception is NOT the rule. I guarantee ive dealt with a lot more bad owners and poor use of the flexi lead than you. And thats just my honest opinion on the subject.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mrs.K

x11 said:


> and when yr are about to enter a vet office you can't lock the flexi at 4-6 feet and have an "inflexi" with a handle - basic having a brain.


Yeah, right and what if you need an even shorter leash? It's almost impossible with the flexi. If I have a normal leash I jus take the leash short. With the flexi you have to make adjustments and while you are doing that, the dog gets the chance to leap forward. 

The Flexi has it's place but not in a Vets office or dog events.


----------



## elizabethtrotchie

The misconception about little dogs not being trainable comes about because people are more apt to let them misbehave with no correction I think if there is proper training they do as well as big dogs

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Bear L

I trained my dog thru the e-collar process using a flexi, as suggested by Michael Ellis. I also walk my dog with it sometimes just to give her more range and when required to leash the dog. When a dog or person or car comes near, I recall her. I can loose leash heel her next to me on flexi. The flexi is hooked up to a prong and gives me enough control. My dog can recall and heel fine when off leash so this flexi thing is not a big risk I'm taking. 

When she was going thru her reactive leash stage and me not knowing how to control, she was only on 6 ft leash because flexi didn't give enough control for those type of situations.

I've done some OB training on flexi but 6 ft leash seems easier to handle. 

Just use what works for you and follow the rules.


----------



## x11

Bear L said:


> *I trained my dog thru the e-collar process using a flexi*, .... *The flexi is hooked up to a prong and gives me enough control.*


 
holy crap, you got all bases covered here...

breeders will need to start breeding dogs with extra vertabrae in their necks to fit all the gadgets on people need these days just to take pooch for a "leisurely" stroll around the block.


----------



## RocketDog

Sunflowers said:


> Your initial post is full of stereotyping, dude...



+1

I am so late to this party--and I haven't read the pages and pages of this-- I stopped here, because in your first sentence "Why is it always ladies who organize these things".... or whatever you said. I can't see it on the reply, so I might not be quoting it correctly. 

Then you talked about the nice dude you clearly complimented you on your dog, offered you his leash, but you refused because of his "suit". 

Whatevs. I'm sure if I bothered to read the rest of the thread, people will have called you out on this, but frankly, I'm not going to waste the time. 

The Flexi is one of the worst inventions ever, IMHO, for reasons I'm sure have been stated. 

This is why I don't visit here much anymore.


----------



## x11

RocketDog said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> *The Flexi is one of the worst inventions ever.... *


 
what right up there with nuclear bombs, agent orange, cluster bombs, child slavery....


----------



## selzer

x11 said:


> holy crap, you got all bases covered here...
> 
> breeders will need to start breeding dogs with extra vertabrae in their necks to fit all the gadgets on people need these days just to take pooch for a "leisurely" stroll around the block.


Only if you are putting the collars on the neck. Wasn't there some _trainer, _a _lady_ in Chicago that was, uhm, using them kind of uniquely? 

I think if your dog is trained well enough to use a flexi-lead, then you shouldn't need a prong collar. I just took two bitch pups to their first ever class last Tuesday. They are 14 months old. No prongs, no e-collars, no flexi-leads, no clickers, no jars of pennies. Simple martingale and a six foot leash and no problems.


----------



## Mrs.K

I know it's been a while, however, I was at a Pet Show on Saturday and also competed in some of the categories with Nala. Everyone had a normal 4-6ft leash. Lot's of Shelter dogs from a local shelter were there as well and a single person with a dog on Flexi Lead and of course the dog ran anywhere uncontrolled.

My dog was in a downstay, right next to me when the dog ran up uncontrolled. 

I HATE THAT! I can't stand it! If a dog is in a downstay, next to their handler, I will stay away from them. PERIOD! *If you go to a show, leave the darn Flexi lead at home and control your dogs! *


----------



## onyx'girl

It isn't the equipment but the handler that should be blamed for uncontrolled dogs.


----------



## selzer

onyx'girl said:


> It isn't the equipment but the handler that should be blamed for uncontrolled dogs.


Maybe, maybe, but with some equipment, you are almost encouraging bad behavior. For instance, people who use Flexi-leads often want their dog to be able to have more room to explore his surroundings while walking. The lead itself almost encourages the dog to pull because it rewards pulling by giving the dog more space. 

It is just a bad tool. Can you find a use for it that does not increase the danger to yourself or the dog? Maybe. I use them to hold my door propped open against a crate. But it will not be the use for which a leash is intended.


----------



## onyx'girl

It is a tool, just like anything else in the toolbox. Stupid people can give anything a bad rep.... I say the same thing about choke collars, because many who use them are choking off the dog, they don't know how to properly use it. I hate choke collars(chain choke, slip, whatever anyone wants to call it) by the way. 
It is a tool, and usually misused, just like a flexi is more often than not. But don't blame the tool, blame the handler


----------



## Mrs.K

That's why I said to leave it at home and to control the dog, when going to a show


----------



## onyx'girl

the key word is *control*...if they don't have control on a flat collar,prong collar, a 4 or 6 foot line, they won't have it either when they use a flexi. Control unleashed is a worthy goal!


----------



## Merciel

selzer said:


> Can you find a use for it that does not increase the danger to yourself or the dog?


Some people use it as a longline when out hiking with dogs who are totally unreliable off leash. With practice, it can be easier than a normal longline because it retracts and is less likely to drag or snag on bushes and whatnot.

So... that's one legitimate use for a flexi. I've never personally used it that way but I've been tempted. Crooky's recall was a thing of sadness for about six months recently (it's since been fixed. mostly. I think), and regular longlines can be unwieldy in some environments.


----------



## Mrs.K

onyx'girl said:


> the key word is *control*...if they don't have control on a flat collar,prong collar, a 4 or 6 foot line, they won't have it either when they use a flexi. Control unleashed is a worthy goal!


Yeah, but on a 4-6ft leash the dog can only get so far. On a Flexi however... 

Same dog got out of his collar and was already on his way back over to us. Thank the lord, he actually listened at that point and returned to his owner.


----------



## VickyHilton

*I read the scary disclaimers and put the thing away until my dog was under control*

I, like others, think the flexi has its place when the dog is under control. You name it, we have it in cotton, leather, 2 foot, 20 foot, and, FLEXI. 

I am more interested in the collar hierarchy theme. I too, have noticed a fairly predictable story to be read in the collar. My puppy and his best friend sport collars with designer patterns, tags to prove all kinds of stuff, and gps (frequently mistaken for e-collars, more on that later). I call these types "my Mommy loves me" collars. Though my 11 month in-tact boy has never bolted, and has been trained since 9 weeks, I can only presume the worst about someone that would take a dog of my type...he would be used for baiting or breeding. I.e. I need to track my dog ASAP. Hence, the need to know ASAP where he is.

The prong collared dogs I encounter are almost always out of control. The e-collared dogs have lazy owners who have bought into the idea that they are a magic fix-it device...and also not under control...the poor dogs in question, do not need negative reinforcement, just better training. Unfortunately, the e-collar is gaining popular support in my area. 

Somewhere above prong collars are the choke chain chokers. Above the choke chains (rarely encountered) are the martingales upon which my dog has so much affixed. (And of course, there are the very few off-leash awesome dogs)

My experience has paid out that the fancier the necklace, the better trained the dog. I make snap judgements every day based on this.


----------



## DaniFani

Haha, I just can't believe this thread is still going!


----------



## onyx'girl

VickyHilton said:


> I, like others, think the flexi has its place when the dog is under control. You name it, we have it in cotton, leather, 2 foot, 20 foot, and, FLEXI.
> 
> I am more interested in the collar hierarchy theme. I too, have noticed a fairly predictable story to be read in the collar. My puppy and his best friend sport collars with designer patterns, tags to prove all kinds of stuff, and gps (frequently mistaken for e-collars, more on that later). I call these types "my Mommy loves me" collars. Though my 11 month in-tact boy has never bolted, and has been trained since 9 weeks, I can only presume the worst about someone that would take a dog of my type...he would be used for baiting or breeding. I.e. I need to track my dog ASAP. Hence, the need to know ASAP where he is.
> 
> The prong collared dogs I encounter are almost always out of control. The e-collared dogs have lazy owners who have bought into the idea that they are a magic fix-it device...and also not under control...the poor dogs in question, do not need negative reinforcement, just better training. Unfortunately, the e-collar is gaining popular support in my area.
> 
> Somewhere above prong collars are the choke chain chokers. Above the choke chains (rarely encountered) are the martingales upon which my dog has so much affixed. (And of course, there are the very few off-leash awesome dogs)
> 
> My experience has paid out that the fancier the necklace, the better trained the dog.* I make snap judgements every day based on this.*


I don't judge what people use...I see very well trained dogs wearing a prong, an ecollar and a flat fancy collar all at the same time! OH MY!!


----------



## Anubis_Star

onyx'girl said:


> I don't judge what people use...I see very well trained dogs wearing a prong, an ecollar and a flat fancy collar all at the same time! OH MY!!


Thats every dog at the schutzhund club! Fur saver, prong, amd ecollar at the same time! They MUST be the laziest owners of all time. OR highly actice owners with extremely well trained and conditioned dogs.... who knows....

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## LouCastle

Anubis_Star said:


> Thats every dog at the schutzhund club! *Fur saver, prong, amd ecollar *at the same time! They MUST be the laziest owners of all time. OR highly actice owners with extremely well trained and conditioned dogs.... who knows.... [Emphasis Added]


If you add a choke chain to that list, you don't even have to train the dogs at all. They just know what to do! LOL


----------



## Mrs.K

All my dogs wear fursaver or choke chains but I have yet to use the choke on them. Always have them on the dead ring. 
Reason is that I've seen too many flatcollars with the "snap" realease break or simply get off the dog when enough pressure is put on it. They are just not reliable enough for me. So I use what makes sense to me. 

I would never use one of the collars with a snap release.


----------



## Anubis_Star

I use the pinch collars with the snap release, just easier for me to assemble. I always use a backup collar as well, as should be done with any pinch collar. I've yet to have one break apart on me, knock on wood.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mrs.K

Was talking more about the flatcollars with plastic snap releases. don't like those at all.


----------



## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Ok Ive read alot of this thread and Im still chuckling over the OP's intial post. Whoa Ive been to that shindig. Only I went w/ my very young Daisy. It was definitely unforgetable
I used to use a Flexi . The day I got it from Petsmart was when Daisy graduated puppy class. Two hours later as I was of course apologizing for Daisy joining an elderly couples picnic lunch after her flex broke I stopped flexi use w/ her.. I think its a beginner learning thing.I have used one w/ Lucky on abandoned mountain trails in WV Lucky is not thrilled w/ mountain trails and believes that you must stay on the path but I want to explore so we both get what we want. (he's pretty calm on leash).
I have two gorgeous leather leashes that match Lucky's leather rolled collar. Love that collar. We have a matching leather leash too. Lucky needs to style it out sometimes. Chevy is wearing a pink leather studded collar I think that is the equivalent of my gun on my gunrack of my truck. Yep we're ******* and biker. 
Thunder is low rent right now nylon green collar followed up w/ green nylon leash 6ft variety. I also have two prong collars cause I hate gatoring and pulling which we are working on w/ Thunder. I also have a collar that has the chain in the back to prevent slippage I bought it for Lucky when we went on VK. I have multiple designs and printed nylon collars for the girls. Sorry I like guys in leather so Lucky has brown leather only. I like my male dogs to look like manly dogs but not outlaws.So no black leather collars
I do have every size, type and length leash you can imagine and multiple types of harnesses from when Lucky dog had injured his neck and I was trying to teach Daisy not to gator. 
So not sure exactly where we are at on the hierarchy but Thunder is getting a purple leather collar and leash if I can find it. So try to find that on the hierarchy!


----------



## Merciel

Mrs.K said:


> Was talking more about the flatcollars with plastic snap releases. don't like those at all.


Ha, those are the only ones I use!


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

My dogs belong to the 'my mommy loves me' collar club then...LOL!

Smitty and Ilda both sport California Collar Company  custom leather collars with..._bling_.


----------



## onyx'girl

Too bad x11 is banned...hope it is temporary


----------



## Merciel

onyx'girl said:


>


Oh, now _that_ is a clever idea! May I repost it?


----------



## onyx'girl

I grabbed it off fb, share away!


----------



## selzer

For youngsters, I use a flat collar with a quick release metal or resin snap -- that's for tags usually, the leash goes on a small martingale with a little chain section, and a resin quick release snap. 

So far, I have not had one of these fail, but then I do not leave them on the dog 24/7, only when we go somewhere.

My rotten 15 month old pups are on nylon/chain martingales that are not quick release. Those two could pull a freight train between the two of them with neck muscles alone. I went beyond considering a prong for Hannah, I borrowed a Herm Sprenger from the table our trainer has out, and put it on her in class a few weeks ago. When the nasty little terrier charged growling at her, I reflexively yanked this gigundo pup out of Harm's way, and the **** thing broke! It broke. My rotten untrained puppy was loose without anything between she and Devil Dog!

Luckily for me, and I had my witsn and grabbed a hold of her fluffy mane and put her in a quick down and attached the leash to her martingale instead. I returned the prong collar to the table.

So last night in class, the terrier, the Evil One, that grumbles and charges into all the other dogs, who BIT Gretta last year, well, in this class he sports a prong collar and a radio-controlled e-collar and something else on his neck as well. 

His prong collar broke last night and he was running unimpeded in a class of dogs where several are reactive, him being the worst. Actually, he is leash aggressive. His owners have whined that if he is loose, he really doesn't have a problem, and thankfully that proved true last night.

For some reason, this group of classes have been the worst for loose dogs. I snagged the Golden that come flying into us. But this small terrier was out of luck. No way would I have tried to grab his collar to help his owner out. He charges at other dogs, furiously snap/growling at them, and when his owner pulls him away, he redirects his aggression to his owner. 

I give the man credit. I would probably give that dog a one-way ticket to the vet if I owned it, but he continues to bring him to classes.


----------

