# To take the puppy home early or not??



## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Someone (a friend of my dad's best friend) has German Shepherd puppies for sale. This guy has no idea what he is doing and I'm a little worried. My dad had told his friend that I wanted a German Shepherd and I guess the friend put 2 and 2 together and got us in contact with this other guy.
Here's the thing. It's their first litter, he's obviously a BYB, and I'm worried about the puppies. He told me they already had their first vaccines, and I asked him when was that done and he said 3 weeks :shocked: They are about to be 6 weeks on Wednesday and a part of me is saying I should just get one (unfortunately I cannot take more) to get him out of that situation... but then another part of me is worried cause he is only 6 weeks and I'd rather him be 8 weeks. Needless to say, this guy was trying to get me to adopt them at 4 weeks....
I was wondering, if I took him at 6 weeks, and just brought him to work with me everyday, would that suffice as learning "doggy manners"? I work at a vet office and about 4 of my coworkers have gotten young puppies in the last week, and they always bring them to work to play and socialize. If I included the other one in that, would that be a good enough experience for him, or should I just wait until he is 8 weeks and hope for the best? Thank you for your advice, I realize these aren't the best circumstances to get a dog from but I just want to do what's best.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

it sounds like your work set up is a good one for a puppy that age and whether it's 6 weeks or 8 weeks I'd take advantage of that

I'm not encouraging you to take the puppy at 6 weeks, but if the guy is going to unload all of them anyhow, and the puppy is in a bad situation then I'd probably do what your thinking

I would make VERY sure via your vet, that the puppy is healthy at 6 weeks, I would also consider the diseases /illnesses AT your vets office that a puppy could be exposed to. Good luck with your decision


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Do not support this person. Just like shaping behaviors in dogs, when we reinforce these practices, it means that this person, and more like him, will continue to do it. Walk away from these puppies and go to a breeder who is working FOR the breed and not against it. 

If you want to feel good about saving an animal, go to a shelter.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Are you buying the dog, or is he giving you the dog? A good rule of thumb is to NEVER give money to someone who does stuff like this. It will just encourage them to do it more. If he can't find homes for them and is trying to give one to you, you could consider it a rescue situation.


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well apparently he was trying to sell them for $550 but nobody took them so he is giving them away now for $20, to "cover the cost of the vaccine".
And yah we put them in this huge kennel together during the day, and then once everything is bleacher they can run around. There's an 8 week old pitbull, a 12 week old jack russel, a 9 week old basset hound, and a 14 week lab mix. Plus my big dog at home + all the older dogs of ours that we also bring to work. I just don't want to ruin this little guys world/life.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Did he really give the pups their first shots at 3 weeks? Ugh.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Are those puppies and dogs at his place, or your place - I am confused by your post - sorry I cannot wake up today!


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

They are with him. But if I were to remove one of them, I'd be bringing it to work with me to socialize with my coworkers' puppies.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

hi, my concern would be that if you were to put the pup into the pen with your co workers dogs , different breeds, different dynamics , different ages , the youngest one , the GSD at 6 weeks of age could easily be cowed , mauled in play or run off his feet physically -- a 12 week jack russell and a 6 week GSD, problems.
No 3 week old should be vaccinated .
I wonder if you contact Dr Jean Dodds and asked her about the long term health consequences if she could give you an answer. I know that her office is very approachable.
What else do you know about the breeding?
I know you are trying to help the little guy , good luck on your decision. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## JanaeUlva (Feb 5, 2011)

Back when I got my male pup in 1993 some breeders thought taking them from the litter at 6 weeks made them less dog orientated and thus more bonding with the owner. However, since then people have figured out that socializing them as really young pups as a litter and holding on to the litter until 8 weeks was better. 

What I'm trying to say is taking a pup at 6 weeks isn't the end of the world, and all in all you would do a better job then that byb guy.

And myself personally, I don't see how going to a shelter and getting a dog versus rescuing this pup is all that different. Odds are it will end up there anyhow if you don't step in. At least this way it the pup has a chance. 

And i have found in life that ignorant people who don't understand when you explain that their byb isn't a good thing, won't ever get it. So rescue that pup and make a difference in its life.

That's just my opinion.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

If you are set on taking this pup then I would just take him now because it sounds like you will provide a much better home for him. I got Chama at 5 weeks (was told she was 6 weeks but drove out there and found out she was actually 5 weeks) and most of her litter was already gone. She was living under a shed so I had no doubt she would be better off with me and my dog, Massie. I socialized her a lot as a pup and she was fine. 

I agree with the concerns about vaccinating that young: having had a gsd who was over-vaccinated and suffered terribly from vaccinosis I would be really careful about following a minimal vaccine protocol from now on (which is probably NOT what they advocate at your vet clinic).


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

JanaeUlva said:


> Back when I got my male pup in 1993 some breeders thought taking them from the litter at 6 weeks made them less dog orientated and thus more bonding with the owner. However, since then people have figured out that socializing them as really young pups as a litter and holding on to the litter until 8 weeks was better.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is taking a pup at 6 weeks isn't the end of the world, and all in all you would do a better job then that byb guy.
> 
> ...


The difference is if you have to pay a BYB to "rescue" (purchase) a puppy, you are giving THEM the money and they then have a good reason, in their mind, to repeat the breeding. Most BYB's don't put any money into the puppies. The pups nurse off mom, who eats crappy cheap food, and IF they vaccinate, they buy the $6 shots at TSC. (OP, he didn't spend $20 on a vaccine for each puppy, he's full of it). Therefore, if they have a litter of say 8 pups and sell each for $200, they just made 1,600 VERY easily. If he has to dump them in a shelter because he can't sell them, he gets NO money. the shelter then alters the pups, vaccinates them, and temp tests them, and they get the $$ from the adoption which covers the cost of what they just did, plus housing, etc. 

BYB gets zero and probably loses money given that he'll hold onto them for a few weeks trying to sell them, and have to feed them, etc. He'll think twice before breeding them again. In theory.

Given the cost of the $20 fee, I would say he's probably not making much money off them and it's a fair "fee."


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Is it possible to get more than one puppy? Do you have the ability (financially and time wise) to rescue the entire litter, keep them together for another two weeks, and then adopt them out? Perhaps you could work with a good area rescue to find homes... or perhaps the BYB can be convinced to simply surrender the entire litter to rescue?


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Well I found out last night that more than half the litter is already gone, there are only 3 left. So I will be picking one up Wednesday. That just really disappoints me. But at least he isn't getting the $550 he was asking for them :/


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and hopefully since he's not becoming a millionaire he will realize he's not going to make money breeding and not do it again....can't wait to see pics of the little squirt!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Pay him the $20 and get take just one pup. 

Vaccines at 3 weeks sounds awful, but you work at the right place. 

I would wait until the pup is eight weeks and vaccinate again, but here you have a problem. Your buddies young puppies, and everything else coming in and out of the clinic, and your dog will NOT be sufficiently protected until his second set of shots (or rather his third set, as you can probably totally ignore the 3 week old set as the pup was most likely still under its dam's immunity, and the vaccines will not have worked". 

So, if you take your puppy to work to socialize with the other young puppies, it is a serious risk of your dog getting something from the other puppies, or something that is airborne in the clinic. 

But would I pay the BYB $20 and rescue the puppy? (This is one of the ONLY times I would call this sort of thing a rescue.) Yes I would. $20 WILL NOT encourage him to continue his venture. 

Are you going to get any sort of papers with the dog? Just curious. This really does not matter if you are fairly certain they are purebred, you can get a PAL number if they are not you can get a CAR number and still enter the dog to any AKC performance type event except conformation, or if schutzhund is your cup of tea, I think you can train for that without registration papers.


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## stephanie.jackson (Apr 7, 2011)

Selzer, he had told me the parents were AKC registered. I don't know too much about how AKC works (I'm always at work so I don't have too much time on my hands lol) but I believe you can register them if both parents are registered, correct? It has no real benefit to me, but it would be nice to know.
We do have a totally separate area for puppies, that you have to go through a door and everything to get to. The only thing I am a little worried about is our parvo/distemper puppies. Since my dog is completely vaccinated and I had no puppies, I always dealt with the really sick ones. Now I gotta let someone else do it.
But don't worry, I will make sure he is only around completely safe environments. I am picking him up tomorrow morning, so I will post pics then. Thank you guys so much for all the info!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Rerun said:


> The difference is if you have to pay a BYB to "rescue" (purchase) a puppy, you are giving THEM the money and they then have a good reason, in their mind, to repeat the breeding. Most BYB's don't put any money into the puppies. The pups nurse off mom, who eats crappy cheap food, and IF they vaccinate, they buy the $6 shots at TSC. (OP, he didn't spend $20 on a vaccine for each puppy, he's full of it). Therefore, if they have a litter of say 8 pups and sell each for $200, they just made 1,600 VERY easily. If he has to dump them in a shelter because he can't sell them, he gets NO money. the shelter then alters the pups, vaccinates them, and temp tests them, and they get the $$ from the adoption which covers the cost of what they just did, plus housing, etc.
> 
> BYB gets zero and probably loses money given that he'll hold onto them for a few weeks trying to sell them, and have to feed them, etc. He'll think twice before breeding them again. In theory.
> 
> Given the cost of the $20 fee, I would say he's probably not making much money off them and it's a fair "fee."


:thumbup: Excellent post!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

stephanie.jackson said:


> Selzer, he had told me the parents were AKC registered. I don't know too much about how AKC works (I'm always at work so I don't have too much time on my hands lol) but I believe you can register them if both parents are registered, correct? It has no real benefit to me, but it would be nice to know.
> We do have a totally separate area for puppies, that you have to go through a door and everything to get to. The only thing I am a little worried about is our parvo/distemper puppies. Since my dog is completely vaccinated and I had no puppies, I always dealt with the really sick ones. Now I gotta let someone else do it.
> But don't worry, I will make sure he is only around completely safe environments. I am picking him up tomorrow morning, so I will post pics then. Thank you guys so much for all the info!


Yes and no. 

If both sire and dam had FULL AKC registration papers, and the breeder registers the litter, you can get the registration application and register your puppy, so long as the breeder is not a neanderthal and has been suspended. 

It WILL cost him so much per pup and a set rate to register the litter -- usually about 30 dollars. So do not be surprised if he asks you to foot that if you want papers. I would, but that is just me. Getting a PAL number on the dog is a little more interesting. You have to get pictures and send them in, along with a statement I believe, and the dog has to be fixed. 

A lot of yayhoos will offer papers for several hundred dollars and sell without papers for $50. If the dogs are registratable papers do not cost that much. But too many people do not want to get the papers right off, do not see the need, and would rather pay much less. Then a couple years down the line, they want the papers and have a hard time tracking down the breeders, and when they do, a variety of excuses start spewing out.

Go on www.akc.org and check out the actual costs of registering a litter, etc. I am having a tough time remembering, something like $30 + $2/puppy. I would pay up to $50 for the papers -- that would not encourage a byb to continue his quest.


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