# Herm Sprenger prong sizing?



## BGSD

This is kind of a spin-off of my previous thread. I want to start introducing my 7 month old to a prong collar.

I am looking at some Herm Sprenger prong collars on amazon and I noticed "lightweight", "mediumweight", "heavyweight", and "xheavyweight". Is this referring to the sizes of the individual prongs? Which is more appropriate for a GSD? 

I believe I read in another thread on this forum that smaller prongs are safer and more effective.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Herm-Sprenger-Prong-Collar-Lightweight/dp/B001FK6ADU[/ame]


----------



## gsdraven

Herm Sprenger German Steel Prong Dog Collars | PetEdge.com

I prefer the 2.25mm prongs myself. I had to buy a package of extra links but only used 2 of the 3.


----------



## BGSD

gsdraven said:


> Herm Sprenger German Steel Prong Dog Collars | PetEdge.com
> 
> I prefer the 2.25mm prongs myself. I had to buy a package of extra links but only used 2 of the 3.


So that's the small/lightweight then.


----------



## gsdraven

BGSD said:


> So that's the small/lightweight then.


Yes.


----------



## MountainGSDs

gsdraven said:


> I prefer the 2.25mm prongs myself. I had to buy a package of extra links but only used 2 of the 3.


That's the one I use too. Actually I have 4 of them but one is my parts collar.

The 2.2 or 2.25 is the perfect size. Covers lot's of surface area yet is strong enough. I have never had this size HS fail. Some of the off brands may not be as reliable.


----------



## LuvMyDog_Worldwide

BGSD said:


> This is kind of a spin-off of my previous thread. I want to start introducing my 7 month old to a prong collar.
> 
> I am looking at some Herm Sprenger prong collars on amazon and I noticed "lightweight", "mediumweight", "heavyweight", and "xheavyweight". Is this referring to the sizes of the individual prongs? Which is more appropriate for a GSD?
> 
> I believe I read in another thread on this forum that smaller prongs are safer and more effective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Herm-Sprenger-Prong-Collar-Lightweight/dp/B001FK6ADU


The lightweight/heavyweight/small/medium/large etc is a poor way to describe the collars. The various metals have different load capabilities, the different gauges have different load capabilities, and they are sometimes sold with links removed to create new sizes away from the standard. The different gauges and stock collar sizes available are:

4.0mm - 25" - stainless steel, curogan, chrome, nickel, antique brown
3.2mm - 23" - stainless steel, black stainless steel, curogan, chrome, nickel
3.0mm - 22" - chrome, antique brown
2.25mm - 16.5" - stainless steel, chrome

The links each have different dimensions, this is where some collars are badly selected and owners end up with a collar far too chunky for the dog, or alternatively have to remove too many links for the collar to be effective where a smaller collar would be more suitable. Link sizes are:

4.0mm - 1.75" x 1.25"
3.2mm - 1.25" x 1"
3.0mm x 1.25" x 1"
2.25mm x 1.0" x 0.7"

This is partly where understanding the properties of the metal can help. The different metals are capable of withstanding a maximum load based on how hard a dog can pull, and the weight of the dog increases the force that could potentially be applied. A 3.2mm chrome/curogan/nickel colar would be suitable for a dog weighing up to around 50-55kg. Much over that the temptation is to move to the 4.0mm collar and remove links, however a 3.2mm stainless steel collar would be suitable for a dog weighing up to 65kg as it has a greater load capability, thereby keeping the smaller profile prong and more prongs in the collar. More prongs are more effective.

It's possible to use the 2.25mm collar on a larger dog, doberman owners seem more inclined to use this gauge with extra links, and the stainless steel is the choice because it's load capability is well in excess of the chrome 2.25mm collar. On the whole though, the 3.2mm collar is the general workhorse and is a natural choice for a GSD as all the metals can cope with the force and offers the widest variety of styles and fasteners.

Summing up all that information up as lightweight/heavyweight or S/M/L/XL is just sloppy and too simplistic. Most of the time it's a telltale sign of a retailer who copied and pasted someone elses descriptions and doesn't understand enough to know it's inaccurate. The prong collar should be chosen depending on the dogs weight and neck size, it can even change within breeds where size variences are quite dramatic, a big 130+ lbs male will have a different gauge requirement to a small 70lbs female and the collar would be selected to suit. If you post some measurements it would help narrow the size range down.


regards,

LMD


----------



## gsdraven

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> The prong collar should be chosen depending on the dogs weight and neck size, it can even change within breeds where size variences are quite dramatic, a big 130+ lbs male will have a different gauge requirement to a small 70lbs female and the collar would be selected to suit. If you post some measurements it would help narrow the size range down.


I'm going to respectfully disagree. There are other factors when choosing a prong besides the size of the neck. A mastiff with a large neck but no fur can do with a smaller gauge. If you simply choose the prong on neck size, my GSDs should use a 3.0mm but a 2.25mm gives me much better control and allows me to use easier corrections because I have more contact points than with a 3.0mm.

There are some guidelines to choosing a prong but some of it is also preference.


----------



## LuvMyDog_Worldwide

True, a mastiff could use a smaller gauge prong. The most common would be a 4.0mm gauge, but if I were using a 3.2mm gauge it'd only be in stainless steel for the security and integrity of the colar. We've supplied a club of Great Dane owners the 2.25mm collars, against advice, but none have failed and they do look superb being so fine against a large muscled neck with very short fur. Again, would I recommend that to anybody? No.

For simplicity, and an effective collar with enough prongs to do the job, and one that could be used with complete peace of mind, for any size GSD, the choice would be 3.0mm or 3.2mm every time. The length of the fur makes little differnece, the prongs will penetrate the fur anyway no mater their size.

Do you check your prongs for signs of distortion or narrowing and bend them out every so often to maintain integrity?

regards,

LMD


----------



## gsdraven

LMD, Do you have GSDs or use a prong on a dog or do you just sell them?

I think you'll find that most owners who actually know how to use a prong correctly, will prefer the smallest gauge that works for their dog over what manufacturers claim is correct. The difference is felt immediately.


----------



## BGSD

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> The lightweight/heavyweight/small/medium/large etc is a poor way to describe the collars. The various metals have different load capabilities, the different gauges have different load capabilities, and they are sometimes sold with links removed to create new sizes away from the standard. The different gauges and stock collar sizes available are:
> 
> 4.0mm - 25" - stainless steel, curogan, chrome, nickel, antique brown
> 3.2mm - 23" - stainless steel, black stainless steel, curogan, chrome, nickel
> 3.0mm - 22" - chrome, antique brown
> 2.25mm - 16.5" - stainless steel, chrome
> 
> The links each have different dimensions, this is where some collars are badly selected and owners end up with a collar far too chunky for the dog, or alternatively have to remove too many links for the collar to be effective where a smaller collar would be more suitable. Link sizes are:
> 
> 4.0mm - 1.75" x 1.25"
> 3.2mm - 1.25" x 1"
> 3.0mm x 1.25" x 1"
> 2.25mm x 1.0" x 0.7"
> 
> This is partly where understanding the properties of the metal can help. The different metals are capable of withstanding a maximum load based on how hard a dog can pull, and the weight of the dog increases the force that could potentially be applied. A 3.2mm chrome/curogan/nickel colar would be suitable for a dog weighing up to around 50-55kg. Much over that the temptation is to move to the 4.0mm collar and remove links, however a 3.2mm stainless steel collar would be suitable for a dog weighing up to 65kg as it has a greater load capability, thereby keeping the smaller profile prong and more prongs in the collar. More prongs are more effective.
> 
> It's possible to use the 2.25mm collar on a larger dog, doberman owners seem more inclined to use this gauge with extra links, and the stainless steel is the choice because it's load capability is well in excess of the chrome 2.25mm collar. On the whole though, the 3.2mm collar is the general workhorse and is a natural choice for a GSD as all the metals can cope with the force and offers the widest variety of styles and fasteners.
> 
> Summing up all that information up as lightweight/heavyweight or S/M/L/XL is just sloppy and too simplistic. Most of the time it's a telltale sign of a retailer who copied and pasted someone elses descriptions and doesn't understand enough to know it's inaccurate. The prong collar should be chosen depending on the dogs weight and neck size, it can even change within breeds where size variences are quite dramatic, a big 130+ lbs male will have a different gauge requirement to a small 70lbs female and the collar would be selected to suit. If you post some measurements it would help narrow the size range down.
> 
> 
> regards,
> 
> LMD


Did a quick measurement. He's very bitey.....

Anyways, Neck circumference is about 16 inches, and weight about 60lbs.


----------



## MountainGSDs

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> The lightweight/heavyweight/small/medium/large etc is a poor way to describe the collars. The various metals have different load capabilities, the different gauges have different load capabilities, and they are sometimes sold with links removed to create new sizes away from the standard. The different gauges and stock collar sizes available are:
> 
> 4.0mm - 25" - stainless steel, curogan, chrome, nickel, antique brown
> 3.2mm - 23" - stainless steel, black stainless steel, curogan, chrome, nickel
> 3.0mm - 22" - chrome, antique brown
> 2.25mm - 16.5" - stainless steel, chrome
> 
> The links each have different dimensions, this is where some collars are badly selected and owners end up with a collar far too chunky for the dog, or alternatively have to remove too many links for the collar to be effective where a smaller collar would be more suitable. Link sizes are:
> 
> 4.0mm - 1.75" x 1.25"
> 3.2mm - 1.25" x 1"
> 3.0mm x 1.25" x 1"
> 2.25mm x 1.0" x 0.7"
> 
> This is partly where understanding the properties of the metal can help. The different metals are capable of withstanding a maximum load based on how hard a dog can pull, and the weight of the dog increases the force that could potentially be applied. A 3.2mm chrome/curogan/nickel colar would be suitable for a dog weighing up to around 50-55kg. Much over that the temptation is to move to the 4.0mm collar and remove links, however a 3.2mm stainless steel collar would be suitable for a dog weighing up to 65kg as it has a greater load capability, thereby keeping the smaller profile prong and more prongs in the collar. More prongs are more effective.
> 
> It's possible to use the 2.25mm collar on a larger dog, doberman owners seem more inclined to use this gauge with extra links, and the stainless steel is the choice because it's load capability is well in excess of the chrome 2.25mm collar. On the whole though, the 3.2mm collar is the general workhorse and is a natural choice for a GSD as all the metals can cope with the force and offers the widest variety of styles and fasteners.
> 
> Summing up all that information up as lightweight/heavyweight or S/M/L/XL is just sloppy and too simplistic. Most of the time it's a telltale sign of a retailer who copied and pasted someone elses descriptions and doesn't understand enough to know it's inaccurate. The prong collar should be chosen depending on the dogs weight and neck size, it can even change within breeds where size variences are quite dramatic, a big 130+ lbs male will have a different gauge requirement to a small 70lbs female and the collar would be selected to suit. If you post some measurements it would help narrow the size range down.
> 
> 
> regards,
> 
> LMD


True but as long as the links are in the proper shape the pressure would be where the prong is folded and that would change to the shear strength.
I have used a couple simple carpenter framing nails to stop a 10K machine from walking on a trailer during transport.
Just check the links occasionally.


----------



## hunterisgreat

gsdraven said:


> LMD, Do you have GSDs or use a prong on a dog or do you just sell them?
> 
> I think you'll find that most owners who actually know how to use a prong correctly, will prefer the smallest gauge that works for their dog over what manufacturers claim is correct. The difference is felt immediately.


although i switched to neck techs, I agree. I used small prongs on both dogs. Much more effective with a much lighter correction


----------



## LuvMyDog_Worldwide

gsdraven said:


> LMD, Do you have GSDs or use a prong on a dog or do you just sell them?
> 
> I think you'll find that most owners who actually know how to use a prong correctly, will prefer the smallest gauge that works for their dog over what manufacturers claim is correct. The difference is felt immediately.


My partner has always had GSD's, this one's been a handful over the years and has had a 3.2mm stainless snap hook collar when she was younger which still comes out on the odd occasion. My last dog was a cross GSD/collie with working parents on both sides, a proper farm dog with drives to match but walked beautifully on a lead.

I'm sure the 2.25mm might be a preference to some, I'm also sure the collars can take the load but it's like trying to land a 40lbs carp on a 10lbs line, just because you can do it. The most common collar bought and used for GSD'd with the exception of the tiniest minority is the 3.2mm, trust me on that....

regards,

LMD


----------



## BGSD

I ordered two sets of the 2.25mm (one for extra links). Let's hope it works out well enough.


----------



## TechieDog

hunterisgreat said:


> although i switched to neck techs, I agree. I used small prongs on both dogs. Much more effective with a much lighter correction


Curious, what is the advantage of the neck techs?


----------

