# Growling at me



## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

Today I actually had Oakley growl at me. Okay....what I do when I feed her is put my hands all around her bowl so she will have me used to doing that and won't growl, snap, ect. She growls at the cats and they're always around but she's never that I remember snapped at them. Well this evening I brought her home some raw meat (my friend had just killed a deer) and a fresh deer leg. Well she ate the meat and she was playing with the deer leg. I thought "Wonder what she will do if I touch it or something" so I reach for it. She growls at me. Then one of the kittens got too close and I put my hand down and swept it away just as she actually lunged for it!!! I bopped her on the neck when she growled at me (I know I didn't hurt her) and said "No" or something like that. She growled at me several times and I got where I would grab her scruff and shake her and say "No!" Sternly while leaning over her. She would look at me, looking kinda confused. I don't wanna bop her but it's like when she does stuff like that it's reflex. When she jumped on me I used to bop her some. Help!!


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

She lunged for the kitten, not my hand, to be clear.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Stop messing with your dogs food. Just stop. You gave it to them, let them have it. 

Thinking it this way. Everytime you sit down for a meal, you husband/wife sits next to you and starts placing their hand on your plate, on your head, near your mouth, on your food. Eventually you are going to erupt. BECAUSE THEY NEVER LEAVE YOU ALONE!!!! Sorry for the caps. But it makes a point. 

If you want a dog to be ok with you near their food, then make your presence a welcome one. When they are eating, walk by and drop a piece of chicken in their bowl and keep moving. Doing this will then have them see you as the bringer of even better things. Good things happen when you come near. 

As for the meat and bone. That is an insanely high value item. Most likely why the response finally happened. 

I would start feeding the dog in the crate, if you have curious kittens. 

Also, if you give something that high value, put him in his crate. 

He continued to respond with "violence" because you answered anxiety with physical force. He had no other way to express to you what he wanted. And you kept physically correcting. 

Write this incident off as user error and start to rebuild your dogs trust. 

Good luck- also know, you are not alone. This is a common issue caused by a common misconception. You can probably search the forum and find plenty of threads on it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Exactly what gsdsar said. Exactly.


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Stop messing with your dogs food. Just stop. You have it to them, let them have it.
> 
> Thinking it this way. Everytime you sit down for a meal, you husband/wife sits next to you and starts placing their hand on your play, on your head, near your mouth, on your food. Eventually you are going to erupt. BECAUSE THEY NEVER JEAVE YOU ALONE!!!! Sorry for the caps. But it makes a point.
> 
> ...




Ok.... Had never thought of it like that before. I feel bad every time I bop her but like I said it's reflex. I'm gonna have to work on that. And I'm gonna try those suggestions. It's hard when she jumped I bopped her nose once. I've bopped her a few times and poor thing I feel bad. But I didn't think about it like that. Thanks!!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

I guess it is kinda reflex, but I'm glad you feel bad when you do it, cause you should never "bop"/hit your dog, ever. And it's GREAT that now you're thinking about this in a different way. Good job!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I have to politely disagree with some of the opinions listed. Of the 4 dogs which have graced my life, three being GSDs, I have never had any of them ever raise an eyebrow at me if I chose to put my face in their food bowl or remove any foodstuff from their mouths or bowls. Yes, I know the immediate knee jerk reaction some might say " Why would you ever choose to encroach upon their moment of feeding or take food from them?" I have my reasons and they are all for the benefit of the dog's well being.....and others as well.

I recall citing the process I used and received some expected feedback and one comment always makes me laugh whenever I think of it. From the very first meal any of my dogs have enjoyed under my stewardship they not only smelled my scent on their food but also watched me "eat" out of their bowl first and then were allowed to join in...putting their muzzle in the bowl with my face in the bowl as well. I remember Baliff responding " did you first chew their food and then regurgitate it into their mouths like a mother bird might do"...the comment makes me laugh because of the mental picture it paints...it is funny and may be appropriate but my method has paid dividends. Unfortunately for the OP, the opportunity for implementing this method has passed...any repercussions I might have experienced from a 8-10 week old pup would have been minimal versus a 4-8 month old pup with substantially more bite pressure.

Letting a dog have claim or right of ownership to anything over the human is creating a potential nightmare down the road.

My current GSD became raw fed after a few months and I decided to train the dog to eat the bloodier portions off a small towel I would place on the kitchen floor. In the beginning, if she worked the meaty bones off the towel I would simply take the portion from her and reposition it on the towel and tell her to "keep it on the towel" and over a short period of time that's exactly where she crunched her bloody meaty bones down. Never once a growl or any objections. 

Allowing a dog to fend off the human via aggressive posturing is the beginning of bad story with results which very well might be a lose/lose situation for both human and dog.

I am not certain the route one might take once a dog has become formidable enough to inflict injury upon the handler but this much I know...it is simply unacceptable behavior.

SuperG


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I too can remove food from my dogs mouths at any time, and considering my 7mos old is renowned for eating things she shouldn't, it is a good thing. I don't do it to tease them, but it is important I have access to any part of their body at any time without risk of injury... How else can I help them if they are allowed to express dangerous ways of displeasure? Same with horses ; they can tell me their problems but not by biting, kicking, striking, rearing, bucking, bolting, or charging... Can't help them if I'm hurt or dead.. Just my thoughts


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

No one is saying that the growling is acceptable. It's not. But neither is being a pest to a dog to prove you can. 

I can take any and everything out of my dogs mouths. But I did not achieve that by forcing the issue everytime they ate. I leave my dogs alone when they eat. I don't pet them, I don't put my hands in their bowls, I don't put my face in their bowls. It's rude and unnatural. But because I respect their space, the times I do need to take something, it's a non issue. Because it's rare and a non event to them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I can take anything from my dog's mouthes, but I haven't created a problem with them making them think that I might take their food at any time. And, my dogs are just not food aggressive. Some are. Some are not. They don't have that problem. In fact, I had the girls helping me this summer, and they were dishing the food out, and feeding time is exciting for the dogs, so they were all anticipating and not waiting, and Analisa spilled some of the food, and she just put her hand down there and scooped it up and put it in the dish. No problems. 

But if you do have a problem with this, instead of trying to take the bone away from the dog, take the dog away from the bone if you must. What I mean is, instead of trying to pick up the bone, clip a leash on the collar and lead the dog away, and crate the dog. Usually they do not take the bone with them all the way. 

Or call the dog to you, and then take their collar and go crate them, usually they will not bring the bone to you if they are worried you want it. 

What you can teach in the mean time is to DROP IT. Start with boring kibble or toys, and work your way up. Make it a game. Teach the dog to drop it, and then to come (so you can take the dog away from the bone). 

Yes, there does come a time when it may be necessary to retrieve something from a dog's mouth. The vet will tell you that 95 to 99 percent of what goes in comes out. But evenso, you might have to get that bottle of ib profin out of the dog's mouth. 

I think mostly though, you will have a much better time with that if you don't go messing around with the dog when he is eating, and when you need to just grab the dog, open his mouth and retrieve it.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

gsdsar said:


> No one is saying that the growling is acceptable. It's not. But neither is being a pest to a dog to prove you can.
> 
> I can take any and everything out of my dogs mouths. But I did not achieve that by forcing the issue everytime they ate. I leave my dogs alone when they eat. I don't pet them, I don't put my hands in their bowls, I don't put my face in their bowls. It's rude and unnatural. But because I respect their space, the times I do need to take something, it's a non issue. Because it's rare and a non event to them.


This, exactly!


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## ocheltree812 (Feb 24, 2012)

I could not agree with you more. I taught my dogs at an early age that food is nothing to get aggressive about, by doing what you said. I have witness dogs being territorial over food, it leads to being territorial over other things (beds, people, toys...). I can trust my dog not to growl or bite at others who may not know my dogs habit (like a child sticking hand it bowl).





SuperG said:


> I have to politely disagree with some of the opinions listed. Of the 4 dogs which have graced my life, three being GSDs, I have never had any of them ever raise an eyebrow at me if I chose to put my face in their food bowl or remove any foodstuff from their mouths or bowls. Yes, I know the immediate knee jerk reaction some might say " Why would you ever choose to encroach upon their moment of feeding or take food from them?" I have my reasons and they are all for the benefit of the dog's well being.....and others as well.
> 
> I recall citing the process I used and received some expected feedback and one comment always makes me laugh whenever I think of it. From the very first meal any of my dogs have enjoyed under my stewardship they not only smelled my scent on their food but also watched me "eat" out of their bowl first and then were allowed to join in...putting their muzzle in the bowl with my face in the bowl as well. I remember Baliff responding " did you first chew their food and then regurgitate it into their mouths like a mother bird might do"...the comment makes me laugh because of the mental picture it paints...it is funny and may be appropriate but my method has paid dividends. Unfortunately for the OP, the opportunity for implementing this method has passed...any repercussions I might have experienced from a 8-10 week old pup would have been minimal versus a 4-8 month old pup with substantially more bite pressure.
> 
> ...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Leave the dog alone when it's eating.

Really?

And what happens when that isn't possible?

I'm sorry but that is illogical for the average pet dog. People visit, stuff gets dropped, kids wander into rooms, other pets get close. What if your dog finds a chunk of raw meat in your yard? Are you going to let them eat it? What if the visiting toddler decides she likes the dogs ball?
Everything in the world belongs to me and I will take it from any of my dogs whenever I chose. 
All my dogs have a solid leave it, but I am not willing to stake their lives on it alone. 
My son has a scar on his face because he walked through a kitchen with me, were a friends dogs food dish was sitting.
My niece has a scar on her face because she picked up a ball that was laying on the ground.
I have a scar on my hand because I didn't see the cookie laying between the dogs feet when I walked past on the sidewalk.
It is not acceptable for a dog to be defending it's food from it's human, or lunging at a kitten.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sabis mom said:


> Leave the dog alone when it's eating.
> 
> Really?
> 
> ...



No one is saying it's acceptable for a dog to defend it's and guard it's food. No one. No where has said that. Everyone has said the opposite actually. 

Leaving the dog alone when it eats does not equate to making the dog food possessive. 

The point I made was that everytime the dog eats, if you are putting your hands in it, putting your face in it, generally messing with it, you can end up with a dog that sees your approach to his food and an encroachment. They start guarding it because everytime you come near you mess with it. You never leave them alone, they always feel like at any moment you are going to steal it. 

I do a trade up for things as a puppy. I take, you get something better. No big deal. Dog gets used to it. Dog is assuming something even better is coming. No big deal I took it. The rare times I have to get something in an emergency and don't have a trade up. No big deal. 

Drop something in the bowl as you pass. Something really good. Have the dog see your approach to his bowl as a positive. Not a negative. It's common sense. 

Plenty of discussion on this topic in other threads.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

This practice of messing with the dog when he eats has always been illogical to me.

The goal is to build up trust, to have the animal realize that once you give the food it is his to eat, and you are not a threat to it. If the dog knows that when you get near his bowl even better things will be placed into it, he will actually be happy to have you near it.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Pretty much with SuperG on this one. I don't typically screw with dogs while they are eating and if I did it would be in a way that built trust rather than eroded it, but after I showed those pictures if a dog tried to go there with me I'd strongly discourage it from trying it again in the future. Either way with management conflicts like that are typically easily avoided.


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## Arlene/Archer (Mar 7, 2013)

I have never bothered Archer when he's eating and he's not in the least bit food aggressive, you could take anything out of his mouth and he wouldn't care. If you HAVE a dog who is a little bit food possessive, why on earth would you exacerbate the problem by constantly proving to the dog that you can't be trusted?

Also some foods are incredibly high value to a dog, and its behooves owners to understand this. Now Archer is raw fed, so doesn't consider raw meat anything other than plain old food, but I know some perfectly placid dog who go bonkers over bones and so on, so again I think it's up to owners to understand the dog they have, not the dog they think it should be.
If you're worried about your dog picking something up while out, a solid 'leave it' or 'drop' works very well, but messing about with an animal when it's trying to eat is daft. And as for 'bopping' a dog when he or she is trying to communicate their discomfort, that's a poor message to send, and might convince the dog that warnings are wasted and a bite is the next step. Dog don't growl for no reason. They are verbalising fear/anxiety/discomfort/unease, it's better to listen to them than ignore them. 
OP, stop hitting your dog and let them eat in peace and quiet.


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## Arlene/Archer (Mar 7, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> Stop messing with your dogs food. Just stop. You gave it to them, let them have it.
> 
> Thinking it this way. Everytime you sit down for a meal, you husband/wife sits next to you and starts placing their hand on your plate, on your head, near your mouth, on your food. Eventually you are going to erupt. BECAUSE THEY NEVER LEAVE YOU ALONE!!!! Sorry for the caps. But it makes a point.
> 
> ...


Argh, how did I miss this, you pretty much said everything I did, but succinctly.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> No one is saying that the growling is acceptable. It's not. But neither is being a pest to a dog to prove you can.
> 
> I can take any and everything out of my dogs mouths. But I did not achieve that by forcing the issue everytime they ate. I leave my dogs alone when they eat. I don't pet them, I don't put my hands in their bowls, I don't put my face in their bowls. It's rude and unnatural. But because I respect their space, the times I do need to take something, it's a non issue. Because it's rare and a non event to them.


^^^^


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Baillif said:


> Pretty much with SuperG on this one. I don't typically screw with dogs while they are eating and if I did it would be in a way that built trust rather than eroded it, but after I showed those pictures if a dog tried to go there with me I'd strongly discourage it from trying it again in the future. Either way with management conflicts like that are typically easily avoided.


Agree... + 2

Member's come here to learn, so as a group they need instruction... I can take anything away from my dogs, that they find or are given. When on the street and I don't want dog to dog aggression, I use my hand as a muzzle. If they don't like that - tough luck - bite my hand - the punishment will be severe. The OP tried something different and nearly got their clock reset to midnight the day before... * Don't do it if your not able to close the deal !!! *
SGCSG


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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

What I was going to say was already said by GSDsar. 

But I also wanted to mention. Wild animals should be frozen for 3 weeks to kill off any parasites. Do you normally feed raw? Or was this just a special treat?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm in the give him his food and leave him alone camp. A bone, they out it just like a ball or tug, but every time I see this topic I get the idea that the examples given about the dog guarding its food or biting toddlers when they walk by have more to do with free feeding vs giving a meal that's eaten at that moment. Management? I've never had to take a meal away once I've put it down.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Hmmm. 

I have never taken food away but when dex was young i added things to the bowl and gave him a pat on the head or butt every so often. It really never was a big deal, he never went after me. With ty and shiggs, not sure who trained them but they are fine with hands near bowls too.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

gsdsar said:


> No one is saying that the growling is acceptable. It's not. But neither is being a pest to a dog to prove you can.
> 
> I can take any and everything out of my dogs mouths. But I did not achieve that by forcing the issue everytime they ate. I leave my dogs alone when they eat. I don't pet them, I don't put my hands in their bowls, I don't put my face in their bowls. It's rude and unnatural. But because I respect their space, the times I do need to take something, it's a non issue. Because it's rare and a non event to them.



If this comment is in any way related to my post...it so incredibly out of context...perhaps it might be due to my lack of detail in my post.

" _But I did not achieve that by forcing the issue everytime they ate." _Focusing on the word "everytime" and "forcing". The method I chose to use was only "everytime" for a very short period of time from the very beginning of the new relationship, perhaps a week or so. After that, I took the advice of some wise individuals in this forum which boiled down to " all good things come from the hand"...especially my hand. I then proceeded to feed the pup's kibble from my hand throughout the day..I am convinced this further ingrained the proper conduct of my pup regarding resource guarding/ right of ownership etc. My hand and scent brought the pup it's food and the logical connection was made, further increasing the "trust" my pup had for me and that no competition existed for the pup's food. I might suggest the OP contemplate feeding the dog it's kibble/raw by hand if the dog doesn't present a threat to this option.

Now, the word "forcing"....hmmmm....I might suggest what I did in regards to ensuring there would be absolutely no resource guarding exhibited by my pup is absolutely no different than teaching a pup to pee outside or sit on command. I simply taught my pup a behavior at a very malleable stage of it's life, perhaps the best time. If teaching my pup to abandon some of it's primal instinct/behavior because it is of no benefit to the pup is "forcing" than every other behavior and obedience skills I have taught my dog has been "forced" upon it as well....

This comment " _But neither is being a pest to a dog to prove you can._" is entirely not germane to the reality of this situation. I'll be clear, once the pup exhibited how life worked regarding ownership/resource guarding there is absolutely no need to be a "pest" to simply prove to oneself, for some egotistical and insecure reasons. The dog is simply conditioned with an understanding of how to proceed forward in this situation and the tendency to exhibit any resource guarding has been eliminated from the pup's existence due to the "lessons" and environment it exists in...

My dog eats in the kitchen, sometimes off a towel in the middle of the kitchen. Mostly at dinner time when the dog eats, the kitchen is occupied by my wife and me. There are many times during this feeding time for the dog where I will be in close proximity to the dog, at times stepping over the dog to access cooking utensils and other items as I prepare dinner. I guess I do quite differently than what you cited ..".._.because I respect their space,"_ this however is a non-issue. The dog is completely at ease as am I...there is no competition hence this "respect" need not exist. We are both going about our ways in complete harmony with a "respect" for each other which transcends the idea of having any boundaries or imaginary lines which we fear might intimidate either party present.

I think what is most important regarding this difference in opinion and methodology is the fact that there most likely is numerous ways to get to the same result. So, if your method gets you to the same result as others, we need to be smart enough to appreciate, neither of us has the end-all solution.

One last thought, ( and this is hypothetical ) if I had to be a "pest" to keep a dog from resource guarding and exhibiting potentially harmful behavior upon a human...I'd be a "pest". However, there are more productive ways to get to the same result.

SuperG


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

This topic comes up periodically. I think there is something some people are missing. If you can stick your head in your dog's food bowl, touch all his meaty treats without ever getting a growl - your dog NEVER was a resource guarder. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you do. My GSD, Annie, was like that. Got her when she was 2 years old. I could stick my head in her bowl, take her stuff, let the kids push her out of the way, while she was eating. Never a growl. She wasn't a resource guarder. She didn't care.

In 2012, I got a hound mix shelter puppy. He WAS a resource guarder. I worked with him every day - hand feeding, obedience, trading up, always giving, never taking away. Messing with his food and taking his bowl would only have made it worse. Why in God's name would I do that? Why would anyone even suggest it? He was a work in progress. He stopped resource guarding his food a long time ago.

For those who equate resource guarding with not being able to take things out of your dogs' mouth, you are wrong. In spite of the resource guarding, I could always remove unwanted items from my dog's mouth. I never had to beat him into submission. It is all about trust. Look at it like this: The dog resource guards his food, because he is afraid you are going to take it away. You take his food away, because you want to teach him not to resource guard. You just did the very thing he was afraid you would do, thus reinforcing the resource guarding. Instead, teach him that he has nothing to fear. You are NOT going to take his food away. Now he learns to trust you and has no reason to resource guard. This is not complicated.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

It isn't that simple. Some dogs resource guard out of lack of trust and some do it because it was a rehersed action that became an operant and continue to do it after trust has been established. It can be fixed either way.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> If you can stick your head in your dog's food bowl, touch all his meaty treats without ever getting a growl - your dog NEVER was a resource guarder. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you do. \
> 
> \ted.


Very well could be true. However, I found one of my GSDs to not fall into this category....had the resource guarding handled with her food but she chose to resource guard her toys. I dealt with that in a similar fashion...problem solved.


SuperG


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

SuperG, My hound resource guarded his food, toys, space, even his body. I worked to desensitize him. He was the worst. He never bit me, but he did bite my college students - not to the point of breaking the skin, but hard enough to bruise. It was their fault, because they did not respect his thresholds. I warned them. They didn't listen.

He never bites now. He has become a great little dog. I'm just putting out there what I had to work with and how it ended for me. Baillif, I firmly believe people make things more difficult than they need to be. My biggest concern is people causing problems, where there are none.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> He never bit me, but he did bite my college students - I warned them. They didn't listen.


LOL....what a wonderful definition of "student"...personified completely.


SuperG


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I'd typically just manage that kind of thing. For me it's honestly a non issue. I head it off in any dog I own before it becomes an issue. I have had to fix it as a trainer for clients though. It generally isn't a difficult thing. I've seen it become such a deal breaker people have put a dog down or rehome it though.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

SuperG, I know - right? LOL! When they were toddlers I could smack them. 20 somethings? Lost cause. 

Baillif. I hear you. Unfortunately, I couldn't head it off, 'cause he came that way. I guess getting dumped in a shelter not once, but twice, when you are less than 3 months old will mess a puppy up. I would hate to see a dog put down for this, unless it really was not fixable or manageable. Please don't think I coddled this boy. He earned the privilege of being allowed on my bed. Once, I sat on my bed and he growled at me. Privilege lost. His backside was off my bed so fast, it made his head spin. I snatched him into my arms and dumped him unceremoniously into his crate. Not a growl or a snap. He forgot who he was talking to. He remembers now.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

As long as people are able to manage a dog in a way they find acceptable and harmonious with the dog I'm happy.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

first no cats near ur dogs food bowl ever, i have seen plenty of cats bitten by all kinds of dogs during feeding and these dogs love cats, not shepherds all kinds of breeds

A cat is 10 pounds a kitten? 1 pound or less not all cats or kittens are dog savvy we have to be proactive. A bite from a dog can kill a cat or kitten or about a hundred or so other animals out there. 

third when ur dog eats u dont need to bother it just feed it thats it, ask for a sit and then put the bowl down. THe whole play with your pets food is kinda stupid. YOu can in NILF feed your dog their kibble while asking your dog to do commands. BUT while your dog is eating a meal u do not taunt and bother and tease it. 

WOlves do not even do that. NO creature allows another to feed and then starts to harass it. Unless it plans on maybe killing the creature that is about to feed? THat is basically saying here is your food but you have to fight me first. JMHO You do it dont be suprised if you get very hurt one day.


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

stmcfred said:


> What I was going to say was already said by GSDsar.
> 
> But I also wanted to mention. Wild animals should be frozen for 3 weeks to kill off any parasites. Do you normally feed raw? Or was this just a special treat?



I started feeding raw but I'm feeding kibble right now. I want to start feeding Innova Dog or Innova Evo or Canidae. Right now it's Purina Puppy because I can't afford anything else. I'm gonna get better ASAP. The deer was a special treat. It was fresh, so I don't think there was anything wrong with it. I mean, it was just a fresh deer. My friend who killed it feeds her dog that all the time when they kill deer. The dog gets whatever is thrown to it. That was, also, the first time Oakley had had raw deer though, and that fresh. It had been killed that day.


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

pets4life said:


> first no cats near ur dogs food bowl ever, i have seen plenty of cats bitten by all kinds of dogs during feeding and these dogs love cats, not shepherds all kinds of breeds
> 
> A cat is 10 pounds a kitten? 1 pound or less not all cats or kittens are dog savvy we have to be proactive. A bite from a dog can kill a cat or kitten or about a hundred or so other animals out there.
> 
> ...



Yeah see I do that BECAUSE I don't want my dog to bite anyone if they come near her food or stick their hands down there. We have people over a lot even my aunts kids who are really.......um.....bratty. If she bit one of them *I* would be in trouble. But they WOULD tease her and tease her and bother her until she bit them. Or until she growled then they would come in crying. So I want to get her used to that so she WON'T do that. I mean I hate to say this but those kids would torture her. And I don't want her to bite them IF they grab something of hers. I think I'm gonna try the method of taking and giving something better. 

She's a sweet, smart dog though. Just needs a bit of work


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Keep the bratty kids away from her. She should never have to learn to tolerate abuse from any kid. Keep her safe and crate somewhere away from these kids if they can't behave appropriately when around her, but that's an entirely different topic.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Camo...would you feel comfortable feeding your dog it's kibble from your hand?

SuperG


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't bug Kyleigh while she eating. Now, I got her as a puppy and when I fed her I put her food down. While she was eating I would call her over to me and approach her bowl (pretend to touch - icky raw meat LOL) and then call her back over. After doing this a couple of times (like 5 times in a week) I walked right up to her and she simply backed away. (I walked up, not stalked, not stomping, just walked up). 

She's never growled, she's never given me the evil eye or anything. 

Once, she had a piece of chicken skin stuck in her teeth and was pawing at her mouth trying to get it out. I called her over and opened her mouth, found the offending item and yanked it out ... she was fine, no issues, no growling, no snapping, nothing ... went right back to her bowl and finished eating. 

I do wonder why some people are so insistent that they MUST have a dog that is "bomb-proof" when they are eating their meal i.e. I have small children, it's super busy, there's lots of chaos ... really? You can't put the dog somewhere peaceful for 5 minutes? Or 10 at the most? 

While Kyleigh might take 20 minutes to eat her food (she likes to lick all the blood off the meat first, then she'll hunker down and chew on it) ... I feed her out of the way - NOT in the middle of the freaking kitchen when people are trying to make supper. 

It seems that alot of these instances of dogs snapping at people while they are trying to eat their food, could be avoided if people would simply let the dogs eat in peace. 

If you've developed a trusting relationship / strong bond with your dog then you don't need to practice these games of my food / your food - the dog's not stupid ... they know the food comes from you!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> It is all about trust. Look at it like this: The dog resource guards his food, because he is afraid you are going to take it away. You take his food away, because you want to teach him not to resource guard. You just did the very thing he was afraid you would do, thus reinforcing the resource guarding. Instead, teach him that he has nothing to fear. You are NOT going to take his food away. Now he learns to trust you and has no reason to resource guard. This is not complicated.


^ This. :thumbup: 



CamoChikk said:


> Yeah see I do that BECAUSE I don't want my dog to bite anyone if they come near her food or stick their hands down there. We have people over a lot even my aunts kids who are really.......um.....bratty. If she bit one of them *I* would be in trouble. But they WOULD tease her and tease her and bother her until she bit them. Or until she growled then they would come in crying. So I want to get her used to that so she WON'T do that. I mean I hate to say this but those kids would torture her. And I don't want her to bite them IF they grab something of hers.


I understand that, I do. But I'm with the others - this approach can backfire and actually make the situation worse. She's already showing signs of resource guarding, she's already growled at you and snapped at the cat. Continuing down the same road that's clearly not solving the problem is just not a good idea, especially since messing with her food to show her that it's no big deal to have someone mess with her food is a flawed concept to begin with. 

The best way to ensure that she doesn't bite a kid is to not allow the kids to torment her in the first place. Safely confine her when bratty kids are around and you can't supervise the situation closely enough to keep them away from her. Trying to "get her used to" being teased and tormented will surely lead to a tragedy.  How can you get a dog (or a person for that matter) used to being picked on? And why should your dog be subjected to that kind of abuse when you can simply remove her from those situations instead?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Amazing this guy isn't dead....most likely the entire story is all a hoax right? I'm guessing he "trades up" behind the scene.

Werner Freund: Pensioner has spent 40 years running sanctuary while living with six packs of wolves | Daily Mail Online


SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

pets4life said:


> WOlves do not even do that. NO creature allows another to feed and then starts to harass it.


Please watch this video especially pay attention at 15 seconds on and listen to the commentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6rl98O_bG4

SuperG


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

British wolves that don't mind being subjects?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

LOL.....

However, they are Mongolian wolves in Germany....


SuperG


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Ahh, clearly the pitch of his howl in the snow then.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Camochikk, if the adults are going to let the kids act like that, they're going to get bit whether or not there's food involved anyway.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I was guessing more that he is dressed in camo and the wolves don't even see him ....

SuperG


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Hey, nice way to bring this back to the op. CAMO-chikk. Lol.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Yes.....kind of stealthy of me.....


SuperG


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

SuperG said:


> Yes.....kind of stealthy of me.....
> 
> 
> SuperG


You are a stealthy dude...


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## CamoChikk (Dec 8, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Camo...would
> you feel comfortable feeding your dog it's kibble from your hand?
> 
> SuperG



Oh yeah I can do that fine. She eats it from my hands fine. It's mostly like the deer leg and some growls when she had the raw meat in her dish. She would probably eat raw meat fine from my hands, too, it's just like when I reach for it in her dish or the bone when she had it(the bone) in her mouth.


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

SuperG said:


> Amazing this guy isn't dead....most likely the entire story is all a hoax right? I'm guessing he "trades up" behind the scene.
> 
> Werner Freund: Pensioner has spent 40 years running sanctuary while living with six packs of wolves | Daily Mail Online
> 
> ...


There is a similar looney tune called "The Wolf Man". You can find the documentary on youtube. Talk about being a "pack leader".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zCBOPF7sy4


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

CamoChikk said:


> Oh yeah I can do that fine. She eats it from my hands fine. It's mostly like the deer leg and some growls when she had the raw meat in her dish. She would probably eat raw meat fine from my hands, too, it's just like when I reach for it in her dish or the bone when she had it(the bone) in her mouth.




Perhaps a compromise is possible to get the ball rolling....what do you think would happen if you presented her with her food bowl but did not release your hand from the bowl while she ate from it? Or..same with a meaty bone...allowing her to eat off of it while it was still in your grasp? There would never be the intention of taking it from her while you are still holding the bowl/bone but simply that you are connected to the food item while she is eating it? You might start off small and use some kind of treat..... ( large enough ) which you could still hold in your hand while she nibbles on it....or does she snatch food from your hand...which could be problematic from the outset. If she snatches food/treats from your hand then I would suggest backing up to a more basic approach on guiding the dog to take a morsel from your fingertips in a much more reserved civil fashion than quickly snatching it with her teeth.

SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Waffle Iron said:


> There is a similar looney tune called "The Wolf Man". You can find the documentary on youtube. Talk about being a "pack leader".
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zCBOPF7sy4


I did catch wind of this guy a while ago....and I bet those closer to him literally caught wind of him.

SuperG


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## Waffle Iron (Apr 3, 2012)

superg said:


> i did catch wind of this guy a while ago....and i bet those closer to him literally caught wind of him.
> 
> Superg


lol


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

The big take away from the wolf people would be that those rules can be enforced even on animals that are not domesticated if done properly. It can then be done with domestic animals without sacrificing relationship or getting your ass kicked. That waiting pecking order isn't an actual wild wolf behavior as far as I am aware. It is a behavior created through operant conditioning.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I'll defer to the wisdom of Marlin Perkins. Let Jim do it.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> I'll defer to the wisdom of Marlin Perkins. Let Jim do it.



Exactly...

Marlin : As Jim wrestles the giant anaconda, I will stay in the boat enjoying a gin and tonic.....


SuperG


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

camo so you are trying to train your dog how to accept torture ? this is a parenting issue you need to teach the kids how to act around dogs? rather than ruin yours? You are making your own dog not like children by allowing them to do this to her?


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

How come so many adults are so scared of children these days?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

pets4life said:


> How come so many adults are so scared of children these days?



Because the child can make a phone call and have the adult incarcerated....

SuperG


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

pets4life said:


> camo so you are trying to train your dog how to accept torture ? this is a parenting issue you need to teach the kids how to act around dogs? rather than ruin yours? You are making your own dog not like children by allowing them to do this to her?


Over dramatic much?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don't believe dogs should be possessive of their food and certainly not aggressive. You can avoid that by splitting up the food into 3-4 portions and feeding the same amount you would in one bowl divided into 3-4 bowls around the room. Then the dog isn't possessive of a single bowl or a spot. 

I would also feed the dog without any other animals in the room. Then you have more control.

I play with my dogs' food, but I don't remove it, rather I will add a few extra things to it while they are eating. Because it's not perceived as taking away, they are fine with my touching it. I believe this is necessary in case they accidentally get into something they shouldn't have and you need to take it away from them.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

incarcerated for saying the word "no"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

SuperG said:


> Because the child can make a phone call and have the adult incarcerated....
> 
> SuperG


:rofl: My daughter threatened this when she was in elementary. You know...when they were stressing that nobody could touch you in a bad way. She took it as she could do whatever she wanted or we would go to jail. That new rule included her brother who she was torturing and who retaliated.

I handed her the phone. Go ahead. Call 911. They won't be taking me away. They'll take you.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

pets4life said:


> incarcerated for saying the word "no"


Check this article out... Teen Sick Of Mother Barging Into Room With Clean, Folded Clothes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


The teen later called authorities on his mother and she is currently doing 2-3 years at Muncy State Correctional facility...so I have heard....


SuperG


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> :rofl: My daughter threatened this when she was in elementary. You know...when they were stressing that nobody could touch you in a bad way. She took it as she could do whatever she wanted or we would go to jail. That new rule included her brother who she was torturing and who retaliated.
> 
> I handed her the phone. Go ahead. Call 911. They won't be taking me away. They'll take you.


Yep! 

My son told me something simular once after I had told him no to something HE wanted. I had a simular response as you. Never happened again but it was an eye opener for sure.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

SuperG said:


> Check this article out... Teen Sick Of Mother Barging Into Room With Clean, Folded Clothes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
> 
> 
> The teen later called authorities on his mother and she is currently doing 2-3 years at Muncy State Correctional facility...so I have heard....
> ...


Hmm, that's a little different then the way they wrote it up in the Weekly World News.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

ahaha superg

when i was young i was always being told off and set straight by adults


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> Hmm, that's a little different then the way they wrote it up in the Weekly World News.


I'm reading the latest edition of Weekly World News right now in my bunker...


SuperG


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

pets4life said:


> ahaha superg
> 
> when i was young i was always being told off and set straight by adults


I thought a bit of levity might help.....

Yes, I as well was raised in a "stern" fashion.


SuperG


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

pets4life said:


> How come so many adults are so scared of children these days?


Lol i have no idea!!
My son respects me but has no fear.

Growing up though my dad beat me with the metal end of the belt haha i feared and respected him!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

SuperG said:


> I thought a bit of levity might help.....
> 
> Yes, I as well was raised in a "stern" fashion.
> 
> ...


It funny how often satire is over looked. Better not ask missleslee any questions about belts. That may take this thread way off topic.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

LuvShepherds said:


> I play with my dogs' food, but I don't remove it, rather I will add a few extra things to it while they are eating. Because it's not perceived as taking away, they are fine with my touching it.* I believe this is necessary in case they accidentally get into something they shouldn't have and you need to take it away from them.*


Believe me, it's not.  I have a completely different approach that doesn't involve playing with my dogs' food while they're eating, and I can take anything away from them at any time.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Steve Strom said:


> It funny how often satire is over looked. Better not ask missleslee any questions about belts. That may take this thread way off topic.


What ever do you mean...


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Believe me, it's not.  I have a completely different approach that doesn't involve playing with my dogs' food while they're eating, and I can take anything away from them at any time.



Well.....pray tell.

SuperG


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

SuperG said:


> Because the child can make a phone call and have the adult incarcerated....
> 
> SuperG


I remember my cousin threatening my mom with that. Her answer? "Go ahead. Just remember you're alone with me until they show up"


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dainerra said:


> I remember my cousin threatening my mom with that. Her answer? "Go ahead. Just remember you're alone with me until they show up"


My brother told my mother he was going to call the police, and she said, "Go ahead, they will give me a medal." 

We believed her. 

My mom could turn that crap around too. She would say to my brothers, "All I have to do is make 1 phone call, and they will lock your butts up for being incorrigible."

We believed her.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

lol i would have been even too scared to threaten to call the cops.

I am glad I am not alone at least.


Miss alex we are just the same


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

pets4life said:


> lol i would have been even too scared to threaten to call the cops.
> 
> I am glad I am not alone at least.


No one I knew ever called the cops on their parents. My brother threatened. But I think it was just that, hot wind. In our neighborhood that was serious abuse going on. The kid down the street repeated the second grade three times. His dad once threw him off the top bunk and broke his arm in front of my sister. He would make the kid sit in the corner for a month after a beating so his bruises would go down before he was allowed out. We NEVER told our parents or anyone. Being kids, we thought they would just ask if we wanted some of that.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

....oh steve (pets for life)
How are you


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

pets4life said:


> lol i would have been even too scared to threaten to call the cops.
> 
> I am glad I am not alone at least.
> 
> ...


My dad was the "cops" lol would have fallen on deaf ears.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Saphire said:


> My dad was the "cops" lol would have fallen on deaf ears.


When I was 10 or 11, my friend's dad was the chief of police. One day, his step daughter begged me to come home with her, so I did. He didn't know I was there. He started pounding on her. I ran out the back door and went home. Yeah, call the police? Right!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

You sure lived in one ****ty neighbourhood!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Saphire said:


> You sure lived in one ****ty neighbourhood!


Actually, that was after we left the city and moved to a very nice middle-upper middle class small town. The chief of police lived four doors down from us, the principle of the jr/sr high school lived across the street. It was a good neighborhood.

But yeah, kids see lots of stuff, they never tell anyone about.

Domestic violence is not limited to lower classes. The neighborhood we had lived in was middle - lower middle class. But there were weirdos there, and wife-beaters, and drunks, and people who abused their kids. And in the small town too, there were weirdos, and wife-beaters, and drunks, and people who abused their kids. My sister-in-law's sister was murdered by her husband there (everyone says -- never caught, and all are dead now). Another cop was let go for domestic violence against his wife. An eight day old baby was taken to the hospital with broken ribs, a spiral fracture to one leg, the other leg also fractured, and some of the injuries were days old. 

The difference between the city and the small town, is that everyone knows everyone in the small town, so everyone knows who's beating their wife, got a DUI, etc. Most of us are connected in some way.

When Levi killed Mr. Olsen and then shot at the cops, and killed the police dog, and thus got himself killed. Well, my sister went to school with him, he was in her class in first grade. And my brother's step daughter was best friends with his sister, his step son probably got some of the same bad acid from the same drug dealer, they probably dropped it together. 

The cop who was let go for domestic violence, his daughter was in my class, and his younger daughter I taught in Sunday School. 

It wasn't a bad neighborhood. It is pretty normal. If anything, it is a lot less scary than a lot of urban neighborhoods. I mean, locking doors is something I had to learn to do when I started driving to the city.


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