# Help, Please: Need Immediate Feedback on Breeder



## Shonya (Oct 12, 2012)

Several months ago, I received suggestions on breeders and decided to go with one who is very well thought of on this forum. After an initial discussion and more research, I was the first to send in my deposit on the litter. I am going to do lots of training with the pup, but don't intend to do schutzhund or show. I had asked for a medium drive dog, not a high drive one.

Since the initial conversation, I have not received one communication from the breeder that she has initiated. I happened to call 3 days after the litter was born and that is how I found out that they were already born. I tried not to make a nuisance of myself and only called her two other times with some questions.

Because 8 weeks was coming up and I hadn't heard anything, on Saturday I called her again. She wrote an email back saying she couldn't speak with me until at least today, and informed me that there are a few female puppies to choose from (large litter). There were pictures from the puppies at about 4 weeks on her website, so on a lark, I checked Flickr this morning to see if there were more recent ones. There were, including pictures of at least 4 or 5 puppies who are clearly with their new owners and have already gone to their new homes.

I received no notification that the puppies were born, not one single update on the progress or status of the litter, no notification that the temperament testing had occurred and that pups were going home already, no information about how to prepare for the pup, what it was fed (this pup has been introduced to raw), no instructions for how to pay for the pup. There has been a complete information black-out. I kept thinking as the weeks passed by that I would finally hear from her right after the temperament testing was done. Wrong.

Can this possibly be typical of how a puppy buyer is treated? Granted, I am across the country and I want a pet, not a competitor, but this breeder also advertises her dogs as pets. 

I am so disturbed by this that I don't even know whether to take one of the pups or not. I've lost my faith in this breeder. Please, any advice would be most welcome. Presumably, she will call me soon and I am going to have to know how I am going to respond.

Thanks!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

this is a very bad start to a very important relationship. not a good sign. you'll have to follow your heart/intuition on this one, but it sounds like the bond of trust is broken.


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

Shonya said:


> Can this possibly be typical of how a puppy buyer is treated?


I'm not sure how it's been for others, but this certainly wasn't my experience! My breeder kept me up to date with pictures every week from the time they were born, up until 4 weeks. From 4 weeks on she invited me to come and see the pups myself! She said I could come every weekend if I wanted to, and even during the week if I was free. At 7 weeks old, final decisions were made as to who gets which puppy (she kept two for herself as show prospects) and at 8 weeks old I brought my puppy home with his little information pack along with some food. How terribly disappointing that someone so highly revered on this site has let you down. I sincerely hope there was just some misunderstanding


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Do you like the litter? Did you like the breeder when you talked with her initially? Have you communicated your expectations of breeder support to her? She simply can be busy with puppies, she can forget, and I don't think it's a bad sign if the breeder doesn't send constant updates. If she's picking a pup for you based on your requirements then I don't know what else she would need to tell you before that. 

I think I got one six-week update about my pup, that's it. The next time I saw the puppy and met the breeder was during picking him up. I was anxious and was prepared to turn around and leave if I didn't like what I saw but you know what, that breeder gave me the best dog I've ever had and ever will. 

Do talk with your breeder and ask the questions you have but please don't focus on other people, focus on your puppy and your needs. Remember, the dog you get is way more important than close relationship with his breeder so do focus on the dog.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would call her back and tell her exactly what your telling us and ask for an explanation???

You gave a deposit in good faith, the least I would think could be done, is notify you the puppies were born or were xx weeks old, etc..

Yes I would call them and ask for an explanation, I don't know who the breeder is, but I'm sorry there is clearly a lack of communication. 

Hope you can work it out.


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## Stephsullivan (Sep 21, 2013)

That sounds terrible, I was in contact with my breeder from 3 weeks before they were born at LEAST three times a week with updates, pictures and information. At 3 weeks of age we were allowed to come see the puppies, but not touch. 4 weeks of age we could come and see and play with them for the first time. We were after a puppy as a pet, but we created such a close bond with our breeders that we still see them every weekend as they are showing us some obedience and show training themselves. 

I would be very disappointed in a breeder if that were the way they handled the situation, the time before pickup is so crucial not only for you to get to know your puppy, but for your puppy to know you too.

In the end it is up to you, but if what's left of the litter is not what you had in mind, i would try again elsewhere. 

So sorry you didn't get that amazing build up experience


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Trust is everything when you are dealing across the country with an unknown person or business.

I think I would be shopping elsewhere unless you can't get your deposit back without a court date.

That is poor customer service when you aren't even notified that the litter has been born, or that the puppies are now being placed with their owners.

I would guess that if you hadn't contacted her, you'd be out a puppy and the excuse would be that none matched your requests. So sorry, wait for the next litter. Maybe she'd remember you then. NOT.

That's a load of BS.


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## Vagus (Oct 7, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> Do talk with your breeder and ask the questions you have but please don't focus on other people, focus on your puppy and your needs. Remember, the dog you get is way more important than close relationship with his breeder so do focus on the dog.


I agree about not immediately skipping out on the puppy if the breeder simply slipped up with communication, but at the same time I must admit that I enjoy having a good relationship with my breeder. She called me up the day after I got him to ask about his first night, helped me through concerns I had about his appetite etc. I still email her regularly with updates on his adventures, training achievements and just general stories sharing how happy I am with him. All of this is obviously not essential, but when you're new to puppy owning and you feel like you're in over your head it's really great to have the breeder behind you. Someone who has seen it all and done it all - nothing is a big deal and everything has a solution.


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

Well, I have to say for a breeder so well received here that I would be very disappointed. I think you held out longer than I would have. 

I had the same thoughts with my current breeder. I didn't want to be a nuisance etc. We put the deposit down prior to the pups being born when we visited the facility. She has given regular updates but not as many as I would like of course. Pups were born November 7th and we have had about 15 separate email exchanges. Everything from pup updates to food discussions. All were initiated by me aside from the birth announcement. She has never once gave me the feeling like I am bothering her and has always responded in a timely manner except once it took a couple days. I even asked her how she tests temperament and she told us exactly how she was choosing our pup and nailed it. 

Talk to the breeder, find out what's left in the litter. I wouldn't go complaining a lot, it won't do you any good but I would let her know how you feel in short. If they have a dog your interested in, let it go since they have a good reputation here. If not, then proceed accordingly.


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

my breeder called me the morning the pup was on the plane and even called me at night to make sure the pup made it there safely. he also calls to check in on the pup once in awhile. some breeders care about the pups and are willing to answer all questions and others only care about the money. if i was you i'd be pretty annoyed.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

And the name of this so highly regarded breeder should be left unspoken. Why?


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## pjvie (Oct 16, 2013)

Breeder bashing isn't allowed on the forum. If you are curious so you do not make the same mistake, PM the OP, I believe.

Though it would be really nice to know..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

correct, breeder bashing is not allowed. Maybe the poster will share if you pm them which is certainly allowable.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

How is the airing out the miscommunication issue considered bashing?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

alexg said:


> How is the airing out the miscommunication issue considered bashing?


This

David Winners


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

the miscommunication issue isn't bashing..what I'm saying is, per the board rules, if the OP said the breeder is XXX, you can bet someone is going to start negative comments about XXX, which is against board rules..I do not make the rules


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

This is a private dispute between a buyer and a breeder. The OP was asking for advice which is allowed, but bringing the breeder's name into the discussion would change the dynamics of the discussion. There are always two sides to every story (OP, I agree with your reasons for being upset) and it is not the responsibility of this board to get in the middle of these issues. 

Thank you,

ADMIN


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Understood. Thanks for the clarification. 

David Winners


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

If you had good references, I say be patient and try and work things out.

We all know sometimes life throws us curve balls and something might be going on with the breeder that you not aware of. 



alexg said:


> How is the airing out the miscommunication issue considered bashing?


The second rule of war is...deceive your enemy !

Anybody can say anything they want about another person...it doesn't mean it is true, tho some people will accept it as such !


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

there's always 3 sides to every story. your side, their side
and what really happened.



lhczth said:


> This is a private dispute between a buyer and a breeder. The OP was asking for advice which is allowed, but bringing the breeder's name into the discussion would change the dynamics of the discussion.
> 
> >>>>> There are always two sides to every story <<<<<
> 
> ...


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

I would be a little put off, too, but agree with those who say not to write the breeder off if you like them (and the litter) otherwise. That said, it seems that this breeder allows buyers to choose their own puppies from the litter? Do buyers choose puppies according to when they placed their deposits? If so, maybe you were among the last few to do so, and that's why the breeder hasn't contacted you yet? 

My personal experience with getting my puppy (almost 5 years ago) was fairly similar to yours in terms of initial communication, although on a lesser scale. I did actually go with a local breeder so I was able to meet the dogs in person, but aside from the initial meeting and a few e-mails that were exchanged, I didn't hear much from them. I had to call in to ask about the litter, only to find out they were born just the other day, and there was not a male puppy for me. I switched my deposit to a different litter that had already been born, and then again didn't hear anything up until the puppies were almost 7 weeks. They did post a picture or two every other week or so, which was nice, but I wanted more LOL

Sometimes breeders forget, and sometimes they're just not big on updating websites and sending out e-mails. I actually really like my dog's breeder and still think highly of his dogs and breeding program. He's a great guy to talk to and still remembers me and my dog (the millions of e-mail updates I send him may have played a part...). Sure, in my ideal world every breeder would send daily updates (completely with pictures, videos, and a daily analysis of the puppies' progress!) but that's rarely the case. However, I do think it's reasonable and only fair to expect more communication than what you have received, so if communication is a concern for you, maybe you would do better with another breeder. If not, then I would try contacting them again. She said she'd be free to talk today - have you called/e-mailed her yet?

Regarding the good references bit - was this breeder recommended to you by people who had personally worked with her and owned her dogs? Or was it a "this breeder's dogs are titled and the website looks great" type of recommendation? If it's the former, have you asked around to see if this lack of communication is typical of the breeder?


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

lhczth said:


> This is a private dispute between a buyer and a breeder. The OP was asking for advice which is allowed, but bringing the breeder's name into the discussion would change the dynamics of the discussion. There are always two sides to every story (OP, I agree with your reasons for being upset) and it is not the responsibility of this board to get in the middle of these issues.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> ADMIN


We (the members) should not get in the middle of these issues. But the discussion in the *open *forum might help to clear the issue and settle it. What will happen if the member gets a PM with the breeder's name and the OP's side of the story? He/she will end up with a negative impression of that breeder and no one will have the opportunity to clear the breeder's reputation.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

OP, 

You have a few options. 

If your deposit in non-refundable:

1. Chalk it up as a lesson learned, eat the loss and find a new breeder

2. Contact the breeder, call, email until you get a hold if them and discuss which puppy will be yours. 

If the deposit is refundable: 

1. Contact the breeder and let them know you have decided to go in a another direction and request your deposit back

2. Contact the breeder, explain your concerns and get a puppy from them if you like their program. 


I have been in semi similar situations. The breeder I chose did not take deposits until pups are in the ground. But before they were born, I realized that I am much needier as a buyer than I thought. And I was not getting the prompt responses to questions I needed. So I emailed them, told them I had decided to go in another direction. And I did. But I still really like the first breeders program, I have nothing bad to say about them, just that I needed more regular contact than they were able to provide. 

In the end it is YOUR comfort level, meeting your needs, and finding a puppy that you love. So if you are not comfortable, then walk away. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## ScousePete (Oct 29, 2013)

Shonya - your experience has a lot of similarities to mine. I decided on a breeder who seemed to be respected on this forum. Communication was good until I sent my deposit, then nothing. On her website my breeder says she replies to emails every day, but I have not heard anything for two weeks and have three unanswered emails. I am now 9 days out from the pickup date and know nothing about feeding history, temperament, payment instructions.

It's very frustrating that this website doesn't allow the truth to be told about breeders, so that potential new owners can make informed decisions.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

It allows the truth to be told in private


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When sending in a deposit, you'd think the breeder wouldn't be so elusive....obviously they had not forgotten to cash the check.
Especially if it was a smaller hobby breeder with only one litter on the ground. 
If this were a larger kennel with pups coming and going constantly, I could understand it....but then I'd never go with a commercial operation.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Xeph said:


> It allows the truth to be told in private


One can only hope it is actually the truth and not a smear .... because it is done in private.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*A smear done in private is seen by few. A smear done on the public board will be seen by thousands. Board rules do NOT allow public disputes between buyers and sellers, PERIOD. 

This is my last word on the subject. Please get back to the OP's topic. 

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa*


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok so to recap you received recommendations on breeders from the board you selected one and sent a deposit-the breeder isn't communicating with you or treating you well and now you would like recommendations from us on what to do...? What do you want to do?


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

Or at least tell us what happened......


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## Shonya (Oct 12, 2012)

Thank you to those of you who provided some well considered advice. It has been helpful to hear other people's experiences and recommendations. As yet, I have not had contact from the breeder, in spite of a few more attempts to reach her. I will update everyone when I have more news.

I must add that as a fairly new member to the forum, I find it disheartening that one or two members have inferred that I am attempting to "smear" the breeder, or am or will be spreading falsehoods about her (through private messaging). This is totally uncalled for. The facts in my case can be substantiated. And as a point of fact, I have not _yet_ responded to any private emails because I want to be very responsible and fair about this, and it is still too early to know how it's going to play out.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't think you need to worry about inferences that you are being judged with assumptions made that you are going to smear the breeder; it happens enough that folks are sensitized to it and want to make sure it does not happen so plenty of warning is given. You are only a few posts in without any history on the board for folks to know who you really are yet. I think doggiedad said it most succinctly:

there's always 3 sides to every story. your side, their side and what really happened

My own inclination is that if you are not comfortable with the breeder, it may be better to walk even if it means risking the loss of a deposit...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Have you tried to call on the phone? Perhaps her e-mail is down for some reason? Computer crash? Who knows. There could be an honest explanation for the delay.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Shonya said:


> Thank you to those of you who provided some well considered advice. It has been helpful to hear other people's experiences and recommendations. As yet, I have not had contact from the breeder, in spite of a few more attempts to reach her. I will update everyone when I have more news.
> 
> I must add that as a fairly new member to the forum, I find it disheartening that one or two members have inferred that I am attempting to "smear" the breeder, or am or will be spreading falsehoods about her (through private messaging). This is totally uncalled for. The facts in my case can be substantiated. And as a point of fact, I have not _yet_ responded to any private emails because I want to be very responsible and fair about this, and it is still too early to know how it's going to play out.


I am sorry if you think I implied the smear attempt. That was not my intent at all. I was just bringing this as a sample in my argument for the open forum discussion.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

alexg said:


> I am sorry if you think I implied the smear attempt. That was not my intent at all. I was just bringing this as a sample in my argument for the open forum discussion.


It may be a good time to refresh the rules which are at the top of every forum section as an "announcement"

German Shepherd Dog Forums - Announcements in Forum : Choosing A Breeder

It has already been stated by mods and admin that open forum discussion of issues between breeders and customers is not allowed on the board. I doubt that is a decision subject to change.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> It may be a good time to refresh the rules which are at the top of every forum section as an "announcement"
> 
> German Shepherd Dog Forums - Announcements in Forum : Choosing A Breeder
> 
> It has already been stated by mods and admin that open forum discussion of issues between breeders and customers is not allowed on the board. I doubt that is a decision subject to change.


Yes, I know. It is just that I made my argument before the "reminder".


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Sharing the name through PM does not mean spreading misinformation or being irresponsible. Forum members communicate through PMs quite a bit. I would love to know the name of the breeder and see how this is handled myself. Conflict resolution example tells more about the true nature of a business/breeder/partner etc than an uneventful ride.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Shonya, if it's a breeder that is known to the forum, then it's likely some of us know the breeder personally, and may have some insights, either positive or negative, that might help you figure out where to go from here. I didn't think you were trying to "smear" anyone, just looking for honest feedback. It's a shame these issues can't be discussed on the open forum, but those are the rules. 

In private messages, anything goes, so don't be afraid to answer them. It may help clear up the communication issues if you know whether this is typical behavior for the breeder.


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## mjta (Sep 14, 2013)

I don't think PMing causes drama or makes a breeder look bad. As it is a breeder that has been discussed on here I am sure people know her and can help you either get ahold of her.

I agree with calling. My breeder was sometimes difficult to get ahold of, but it was worth the wait!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Shonya, I know I sent you a PM simply asking who the breeder was. I'm sincerely curious as to who it is. I am curious to know how this plays out - as someone mentioned, conflict resolution. And it would help those of us already doing the research again to determine the next breeder we'll go with for our next dog in a couple years.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

this is a time when you should be filled with excitement, not disappointment. I cant believe that your phone calls go unanswered. I too would be put off, to say the least.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

If the breeder was recommended here, hopefully those members that recommended will come forward to help you. 
IMHO I dont think its fair that people can recommend in forum but not mention the bad or issues about the breeder in forum (not sure if its happening that way but just bringing it up) otherwise all recommendations should be made by PM too. its just one sided and all people see is the good.
Either way this breeder should have contacted you whether her email is down of not, especially since you have seen puppies going to homes already. if there are more than one dam, maybe your puppy is not ready, however she should keep you updated. So sad. I hope it all works out and we find the breeder has your wrong email, contact info or something.


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## Kejasa (Jul 8, 2012)

Shonya, I was in your position a little over a year ago. I too found the breeder through this forum and she was very well respected. However, communication was lacking and I had to ask if I could meet the puppy before I was supposed to bring it home. When I met the pup at 6 weeks I was told by a person who lived at the kennel that it was high drive. I had put a deposit down for a medium drive pup and had stressed that I wanted an outgoing one. The pup I had been matched to did not want to be held, continually ran away from me and seemed very aloof. Long story short, I had doubts that the pup was right for me but the breeder kept insisting it was what I wanted. I asked the breeder to transfer my deposit to another litter and when she did not agree to do so I asked for my money back. I was told deposits were not refunded and the breeder literally said to me, "Had the puppy not been right for you, I would have told you and we would have waited for another litter." I was really shocked that I was treated that way by a breeder who had such a good reputation on here. She sold the puppy to someone else about a week later...same thing, there were pictures on her flicker account. She later agreed in court to return my deposit but never did. I say walk if you don't feel right about that breeder. A year later I have a lovely little shepherd who was very outgoing when I met her and is medium drive too. If I had taken that other pup home I truly think I would have regretted it. I lost a significant amount of money, but at least I have a good relationship with the breeder I got my girl from.


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## Kejasa (Jul 8, 2012)

I just looked at the breeder's website I was referring to and, lo and behold, she has puppies that should be going home now. I think we are talking about the same breeder. I am really sorry. I know how disappointing it is to get your heart set on your new puppy and then to be hit by a lot of uncertainty. It must be hard for you to watch the puppies going to other homes when you put your deposit down first. I hope things work out for you.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Kejasa, could you PM me the name of the breeder?


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Msmaria said:


> If the breeder was recommended here, hopefully those members that recommended will come forward to help you.
> IMHO I dont think its fair that people can recommend in forum but not mention the bad or issues about the breeder in forum (not sure if its happening that way but just bringing it up) otherwise all recommendations should be made by PM too. its just one sided and all people see is the good.
> Either way this breeder should have contacted you whether her email is down of not, especially since you have seen puppies going to homes already. if there are more than one dam, maybe your puppy is not ready, however she should keep you updated. So sad. I hope it all works out and we find the breeder has your wrong email, contact info or something.


Here is the initial thread with all who recommended a breeder to the OP: 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/319449-breeder-companion-gsd.html

You can tell who recommended who. Guess, we all will have to be very careful while reading these recommendations...


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