# Obsessive barking... spraying with vinegar???



## wyoung2153

Curious on y'alls thoughts.. Titan is so intent on barking at people who come into the house. He's not aggressive, just doesn't stop when you say so.. he knows the word "enough" very well but for some reason when he is in bark mode ONLY in the house.. will he pay no mind. I say enough and gors feom alert bark to excited bark and he continues. I say go to bed and he goes to bed yipping excitedly the whole way, lays down and excitedly barks and barks. He will sit there yipping for about 15 minutes. He is only allowed out of his bed when he's quiet. Once he is released, he just sniffs the guests and goes about his business.. Anyways.. nothing I have tried has broken this habit.. We've done the ignore until he's quiet.. and still do. We have done OB with him when someone comes to the door and he still barks crazily at the door/guests in between actions. I've leashed him and attempted correction.. that doesn't work.. I'm at a loss on how to fix this. I don't want him not to alert me but I want to be able to say "enough" and him be quiet. 

Well we went to our one on one trainer yesterday for various small issues and she was fantastic.. before you dig into her and chastise her for suggesting this next method, just know she has been highly recommended to me by MANY dog trainers including my SAR team lead. She comes with an insane amount of titles and certs and it all really speaks for itself. Anyways she was wonderful and gave us some great homework and ideas for fixing some issues. The ONLY thing she suggested that turned me sideways was using vinegar on Titan when he barks. Not diluted vinegar.. but straight distilled white vinegar. She said because he is so intense and nothing will break him.. he needs something to pull him out of the moment.. she said it may irritate him but it's not going to do any damage at all. we conveniently had someone n pop in unannounced to which he responded like I knew he would barking like crazy.. again excitement not aggressive.. she sprayed him with it and he stopped. So it's effective.. but I'm just not sure how I feel about using vinegar.. There are very mixed reviews on the subject when I researched.. so that's why I came to you guys just to gather thoughts.. maybe someone has an experience with barking and can direct me too.. what are the thoughts?

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## Blanketback

Before you ask if it works, or is a good idea, or if others do it - go put a bit of vinegar in your eye. I just did, lol. It didn't sting at first but then it did feel funny. I rinsed my eye with water, and it still feels a little awful. Lol, the things we'll do for our dogs, huh?


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## wyoung2153

Haha I honestly would have done that if I decided I was going to spray him with it.. lol. I have never heard of using it so I was curious if maybe it was just my ignorance lol.. I may still try it just to see but it'll be this evening when I take my contacts out, lol. Thank you for testing the theory out! Ha!

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## gsdsar

Maybe it's just the shock of spraying something. Try plain water and see if it works. 


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## Freestep

It is effective for some dogs, you just have to be careful not to spray it into the dog's eyes. It's the same concept as the citronella-spraying bark collars, which do seem to work for some dogs.

There's also a tool called the "barker breaker" that emits a high-frequency tone inaudible to humans, but annoying to dogs. It works for some dogs. There are also collars that use this technology.

There's another product called "Stop That!" which is a little bottle of compressed air with the addition of doggie pheromones. When the dog barks, you spray a burst at him. The blast of compressed air works to startle him out of bark mode, and then the pheromones work to calm him down. I tried it in my grooming shop, it did seem to work, but the bottle didn't last very long. I got maybe a couple dozen blasts out of it before it died. Now I just use the regular pheromone spray when I have a chronic barker. It's not an instant fix, but it does seem to calm down most dogs eventually.


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## Blanketback

Lol, no problem  My verdict is, it will work because it isn't a pleasant sensation. But I think it would be mean because I don't know what my eye would feel like if I didn't rinse it out, if dogs' eyes are the same as ours. You could probably whack him with a 2x4 just as easily, to get the point across, and not blind him. JK!!!! LOL!!!


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## my boy diesel

plain water with a few tsp of vinegar in a squirt bottle
will work
you don't need it full strength as is so pungent
i'd never use it full strength


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## Harry and Lola

I would be really concerned about damaging his eye with vinegar, regardless of how much watered down it is, surely plain water will be enough to distract him?


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## wyoung2153

I'll try diluted.. and unfortunately just plain water won't work. Titan LOVES playing with water.. even out of the squirt bottle. He didn't want to play with it when the trainer did it because he knew it wasn't water and it shocked him.. though maybe the shock should be enough to pull him out. Hmmm.. try just plain first?

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## wyoung2153

Anyone else have experience with a barker.. only in the home when someone comes over?

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## NancyJ

Have you put the bark on command then the quiet? Clicker training is also good for barking. You click/treat when he shuts up even for a second. Might help.....


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## HOBY

Have you tried two squirt bottles with just water from different angles and strengths at different temperatures?


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## Blanketback

If Titan really does know what "Enough" means, and he's ignoring the command, then he needs to be corrected when he blows you off. He can't just keep yipping without consequences or that commands will eventually mean nothing to him. 

My guy was like that too, and I never let him out of the crate until he was quiet. He'd greet the guests and then I'd settle him down at my side with a knucklebone - he likes them better than visitors, lol. But if he decided that he'd rather carry on, then he'd be put back in his crate and we'd start all over. He definitely likes sitting at my side chewing a bone better than being crated, lol. 

Does this sound like it might work? I never gave my pup a hard correction for yapping away, because he learned that disobedience meant recrating. I used the same method to keep him from nuisance barking outside and even pestery barking indoors - I just need to ask him if he needs to go to his bed now and he'll pipe down.


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## wyoung2153

Intgeresting enough.. when I looked at responses a couple days ago, I really only had like 2 or 3.. my phone apparently didn't show some of them.. weird. anyways...



jocoyn said:


> Have you put the bark on command then the quiet? Clicker training is also good for barking. You click/treat when he shuts up even for a second. Might help.....


When I put him on bark command and then say "shhhh" he quiets.. gets treat. (we don't do that often) This has NO effect what so ever when he's in crazy bark mode. Maybe I should start making him go crazy barking for his toy.. which I can get him to do.. and say "enough?"



HOBY said:


> Have you tried two squirt bottles with just water from different angles and strengths at different temperatures?


This I have not tried. It would be hard.. only because it's just me and my boyfriend and when we train this he would probably be the one ringing the doorbell. Unless you were meaning I do both.. then I might say, I lack the coordination for that, lol.



Blanketback said:


> If Titan really does know what "Enough" means, and he's ignoring the command, then he needs to be corrected when he blows you off. He can't just keep yipping without consequences or that commands will eventually mean nothing to him.
> 
> My guy was like that too, and I never let him out of the crate until he was quiet. He'd greet the guests and then I'd settle him down at my side with a knucklebone - he likes them better than visitors, lol. But if he decided that he'd rather carry on, then he'd be put back in his crate and we'd start all over. He definitely likes sitting at my side chewing a bone better than being crated, lol.
> 
> Does this sound like it might work? I never gave my pup a hard correction for yapping away, because he learned that disobedience meant recrating. I used the same method to keep him from nuisance barking outside and even pestery barking indoors - I just need to ask him if he needs to go to his bed now and he'll pipe down.


He is blatantly ignoring the enough.. well I wouldn't say completely. He does change the tone of his bark when I say the command. It goes from "MOM SOMEONE IS HERE TO KILL YOU!!!!" to "MOM I'M SO EXCITED SOMEONE IS HERE TO PLAY!!!" I can tell the distinct change in his tone and bark. 

I will also admit that I haven't known exactly what to do because of conflicting information.. Someone says ignore him completely!!! Then when he's quiet he can come out... Which I have done.. then another says to correct the bark.. and I have done that and it seems to not matter. I also have low traffic and can get my BF to go out the back door and knock on the front but I'm afraid eventually Titan learns the game and does it perfectly. I don't have a ton of friends that can come over just to play knock knock for my dog (more so friends that would be willing) and I just moved so I can't ask the neighbors, lol. 

I also am afraid me correcting this will cause him to think he CAN'T alert.. I want the alert just not the continuation..


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## Blanketback

I actually let some salespeople come it to make their pitch, just so my puppy would learn to be quiet in his crate, lol! Yup, I don't get enough visitors either and I wanted this experience for him when he was still very young. Every experience helps, that's for sure.

It's a lesson in patience. Dog gets let out of crate when quiet, and the first peep out of him gets him back in until he's quiet again. This might be only across the room on the first go, or maybe only 3 steps, lol. But the dog learns that being quiet gets him what he wants. That's pretty much it. I wouldn't use the doorbell for this, because it's the physical presence of another person that he needs to deal with.


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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> I wouldn't use the doorbell for this, because it's the physical presence of another person that he needs to deal with.


I'll definitely just have to be patient (not my gratest trait, lol, but doable). annnd yes and no on the doorbell.. yes he needs to deal with the presence of another person when I have guests, but he also needs to when someone is just at the door. He won't stop so long as someone is at the door either.


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## Blanketback

I'm not the world's most patient person either, lol. But this is actually an advantage, because it makes us try to be as clear as possible the first time  

When someone comes over, is Titan loose? I'm always yelling, "Hang on a minute!" before I open the door, so I can crate my pup. Fortunately I have glass in my door, so I'm not opening it up to just anyone. If it's a stranger then that's different, and I get a bark-fest too. But for me, I want that. 

What does work for me, in that scenario, is to distract my pup with his frisbee. I keep it right by the door, and he's already trained to wait until I release him before rushing outside. So a new person will take second place to the thrill of a game, whereas they'd take first place over the monotony of a restful state. If that makes any sense, lol.


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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> I'm not the world's most patient person either, lol. But this is actually an advantage, because it makes us try to be as clear as possible the first time
> 
> When someone comes over, is Titan loose? I'm always yelling, "Hang on a minute!" before I open the door, so I can crate my pup. Fortunately I have glass in my door, so I'm not opening it up to just anyone. If it's a stranger then that's different, and I get a bark-fest too. But for me, I want that.
> 
> What does work for me, in that scenario, is to distract my pup with his frisbee. I keep it right by the door, and he's already trained to wait until I release him before rushing outside. So a new person will take second place to the thrill of a game, whereas they'd take first place over the monotony of a restful state. If that makes any sense, lol.


That is actually a brilliant idea that I never thought of.. Titan is INSANELY ball driven.. I don't know why I never thought about having one by the door for those situations. 

I too want him to bark for the strangers. I have no issues with that. The issue I have been having is just not being about to silence him while that person is at the door. I may try the toy thing though.. 

So for guests, you crate until quiet, and for strangers you have the toy?


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## Blanketback

wyoung2153 said:


> So for guests, you crate until quiet, and for strangers you have the toy?


Yup, always. I figure, friends are always welcome even if the visit is unannounced. Strangers are never welcome  but you never know, these days, what people are up to. 

A few weeks ago I was actually abusive to some strangers, lol. In my defense, I was suspicious of where they parked their car - a normal person would park directly behind mine, since it's a huge driveway and there's plenty of room. But no, they pulled in beside mine, as close to the backyard as they could get. How weird, right?

So right off the bat, they were 'training bait' in my eyes, lol. I threw my coat on, grabbed the frisbee, and bam - shocked the poo out of these people when they encountered my pup rushing down the steps to chase his beloved frisbee. He didn't even bark at them, just gave a glance. 

If they hadn't weirded me out with their bizarre parking, I would have stood outside and gotten rid of them asap, with my dog barking the whole time - which I prefer, because this is a great excuse to end whatever sales pitch they've got and also lets a potential thief out casing the neighborhood know my house is a nightmare, since little guy gets DH's dog barking too and she's got a ferocious AmBull bark. 

But whenever a friend is over, he wants to greet them badly. Badly enough that he's quiet, since everyone will ignore him when he's crated. It's not what he wants to do, he'd rather bark, but he's offered a choice - bark in the crate or be quiet out of the crate.


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## wyoung2153

I guess I will just have to be more consistent with it. Our problem arises when Friends come over and keep looking at him and saying things too him.. then that gets him excited.. also, the BF isn't too great at jsut ignoring him. He gets SO annoyed when he gets like that, and gets angry and yells at him. (I have addressed this) 

Also, for strangers, do you generally take the frisbee to the front yard with the stranger there? I'm unsure how Titan would do with that. I'm thinking having it and playing in the doorway.. unless I want him to continue barking, only because of thsoe situations, you mentioned. Sometimes it's nice for the person to know you have a large "out of control" dog.


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## Lilie

When your pup blows you off...what do you do? You send him to his bed and wait for him to be quiet, or do you correct due to the continued behavior?


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## Blanketback

The inconsistency will kill the whole thing. I know it's sooo hard to get people to do what you tell them to! You really have to be super bossy with them - make them promise not to look at your dog or they'll have to stay outside, lmao. Seriously though, it's a huge training setback because you need to have Titan understand how this works: it has to be unmistakable and straightforward. Otherwise, he'll never learn the rules. Yelling is just a waste of time too. As I'm sure you've mentioned, lol. 

IDK how you're set up at your place. I have a nice front yard that I take my pup out and play frisbee with him several times a day, so he's charged right up when I say the word "frisbee" let alone touch the thing, lol. Do you play out front with Titan? I think he'd need to associate the ball with a good game forthcoming, not just tease him with the toy.


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## wyoung2153

Typically when the door bell rings I let him bark as the alert and say "enough" when I want him quiet. I then say go to bed. When he continues I say enough again and eventually ignore him. I suppose I should pick one.. he doesn't get to come out of his bed until he's quiet.. that part is an always. 

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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> The inconsistency will kill the whole thing. I know it's sooo hard to get people to do what you tell them to! You really have to be super bossy with them - make them promise not to look at your dog or they'll have to stay outside, lmao. Seriously though, it's a huge training setback because you need to have Titan understand how this works: it has to be unmistakable and straightforward. Otherwise, he'll never learn the rules. Yelling is just a waste of time too. As I'm sure you've mentioned, lol.
> 
> IDK how you're set up at your place. I have a nice front yard that I take my pup out and play frisbee with him several times a day, so he's charged right up when I say the word "frisbee" let alone touch the thing, lol. Do you play out front with Titan? I think he'd need to associate the ball with a good game forthcoming, not just tease him with the toy.


I play in front and Back. Front yard is usually stick time and back yard ball time. If I so much as motion toward the back door he's amped up. And the friends are easier to be bossy with.. I have to live with the BF lol. But I'll figure out a way to get through to him. 

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## Blanketback

Training BFs is very similar to training dogs - just use different kinds of treat to motivate. Lmao.


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## Lilie

wyoung2153 said:


> Typically when the door bell rings I let him bark as the alert and say "enough" when I want him quiet. I then say go to bed. When he continues I say enough again and eventually ignore him. I suppose I should pick one.. he doesn't get to come out of his bed until he's quiet.. that part is an always.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


So.......you've taught your dog that when you have a guest, he's to bark and alert you. And you've taught him that in this case, "enough" means that I am now warning you that you are about to go to bed. Then you give the 'go to bed command', which he follows. He remains on his bed till he decides to be quiet. 

So he is basically doing exactly what you've taught him. You need to reinforce your 'enough' command. Stay with him until he is quiet, then reward. Ignoring the behavior is reinforcing it.


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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> Training BFs is very similar to training dogs - just use different kinds of treat to motivate. Lmao.


LMAO!!!! I am not going to lie.. I read an article on that.. it was great... and honestly got me thinking.. I have to see if I can find it!


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## SuperG

Spraying with vinegar ??? Your dog might never enjoy a nice balsamic vinaigrette on his tossed salad or fish and chips with malt vinegar ......but this is the risk you run.....

SuperG


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## Blanketback

Ha ha, please post the link when you find it 

If Titan is amped up for the back door then you should have no problem getting him amped up for the front too, as long as you're always consistent (there's that word again, lol) with giving him something to look forward to. I'd swap the stick for a frisbee, myself - that way you can have it right there at the door whenever you need it. I only use mine out front and it sits beside the door. Bigtime rewards out both doors for my guy, but different toys for each to keep it simple.


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## wyoung2153

SuperG said:


> Spraying with vinegar ??? Your dog might never enjoy a nice balsamic vinaigrette on his tossed salad or fish and chips with malt vinegar ......but this is the risk you run.....
> 
> SuperG


It's risky all right  



Blanketback said:


> Ha ha, please post the link when you find it
> 
> If Titan is amped up for the back door then you should have no problem getting him amped up for the front too, as long as you're always consistent (there's that word again, lol) with giving him something to look forward to. I'd swap the stick for a frisbee, myself - that way you can have it right there at the door whenever you need it. I only use mine out front and it sits beside the door. Bigtime rewards out both doors for my guy, but different toys for each to keep it simple.


Funny thing is we have a designated Stick by the front door, the gardeners are instructed not to touch that stick.. When we go out the front he is either excited for the car or the stick.

I'm still only slightly confused.. sorry.. this is probably not as complicated as I'm make it.. forgive me.. So when someone random comes to my door, do what.. just open the door to go out and play??? I fear Titan would be more interested in the person at the door at that point.. because well, stranger danger.. type of thing. 

(looking for article!)


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## Blanketback

This is something you have to judge, by knowing your dog and also by guessing who's out there. I know my pup and I know he'd rather play with me than greet a stranger, so I'm not concerned about letting him out with them. The key thing is that he's running to his spot to catch his toy and that's all he's thinking about. He's been trained to do that already - to stay in a certain area and get ready for the catch: he's not running all over the yard sniffing at things or looking at the neighbors, etc. He's waiting for me. You'd have to teach Titan this before just letting him rush outside, if that's something you'd consider doing.

And now I'm equally confused, lol. Stranger danger? Is Titan wary of everyone, or do you mean certain undesirables? If he's wary of everyone, then he needs to have situations set up where the stranger is a good thing too. Like maybe you'll have to order lots of pizzas in the coming weeks, lol.


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## wyoung2153

Here's that article Blanketback!

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/fashion/25love.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0


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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> And now I'm equally confused, lol. Stranger danger? Is Titan wary of everyone, or do you mean certain undesirables? If he's wary of everyone, then he needs to have situations set up where the stranger is a good thing too. Like maybe you'll have to order lots of pizzas in the coming weeks, lol.


He is not really wary of strangers outside my home. I can go anywhere with him and he's very good with people coming up and talking to me. On walks he doesn't pay mind to people. Dog park doesn't mind people at all. The ONLY place he is "wary" and I'm not so much sure I'd call it wary, but that he acts different is in our home. Very different attitude when strangers come on our property.. or so recently learned.. when a strange man is coming toward us. 

I get what you mean about the ball drive. Titan and I are out in the front frequently playing fetch.. that's it.. he doesn't sniff or anything. he jsut wants that stick! Or ball.. in the back. But that's what makes the dog park nice for us.. he literally pays no mind to anyone but me because I have the ball. I haven't tried it with someone in our home.

Just with how he reacts to people at the door I am not sure how comfortable I am with that. But maybe I am completely mistaken and it could work perfectly.. I'm going to have to gage that.


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## Blanketback

Thank you, that was great! And it's so true too 

It also reminded me that's I'm using "incompatible behavior" with my pup's barking too. For some reason, he only barks when he's standing. Ok, he makes tons of other sounds lying down (squeals, whines, yips, etc) but it's easier to reinforce "Quiet" when he's eliminated the barking and then use "Shhh" for the other sounds.

ETA: it could be your discomfort at the door that's making this an issue to begin with. Maybe?


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## wyoung2153

It's definitely possible, I will have to do a couple test runs.. I will get my BF to knock on the door and see how Titan responds my commands best. Might be easier.. kinda in the same sense of training in low stimulating environments then adding things as he gets better you know? Did that maike sense? lol


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## Blanketback

Totally, lol. It would obviously be easier for him, if he's not reading any apprehension coming from you.

I've got it pretty easy here, since all the strangers are usually just doing their jobs, and are quick about it. I've only had a few in the past months: a couple of courier deliveries, an oil tank fill, those weirdos, and a J'sW call. When I step out to see what they want, my pup switches from the 'somebody at the door' bark to the 'take me with you' yip. That's why I like DH's AmBull to be barking too, otherwise they'd never know I have a GSD in there, lol.


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## wyoung2153

HA! I say the same thing about Titan sometimes.. He gets this bark (assuming it's a GSD thing) Where it's mroe of a yip of excitement and people look at me crosseyed.. I have had one person ask what kind of dog I had, when I said GSD.. they just said "really??" I said yepp.. he's excited. Lol.

gonna give it a shot though.. my BF isn't feeling well so I will have to wait on that. But I really appreciate the tips and walk throughs.


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## Blanketback

Only people who have GSDs recognize that bizarre high-pitched yip as part of their vocabulary, lol.


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## wyoung2153

VERY true, haha!! Titan never used to be so vocal.. we lived in a remote village in Germany for is first year and a half and we had no visitors, low low traffic.. so when we moved back to the states it was this HUGE excitement for him. I used to ask my friend on our SAR team if all GSD's are so vocal and if Titan was an exception.. man I ate those words.. lol. He's generally quiet still EXCEPT if he's excited (fetch, eating time, walking time, working time, ok like all the time...) or in alert mode.. Lol.


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## HarleyTheGSD

If my younger male acts up in the house or annoys my older male, or barks, I spray him with plain water. It's humane, but it works like magic.


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## wyoung2153

HarleyTheGSD said:


> If my younger male acts up in the house or annoys my older male, or barks, I spray him with plain water. It's humane, but it works like magic.


I have the spray bottle ready if I need it!! He really likes water though.. so I hope he doesn't think it's fun..


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## fredh

I would never Spray Vinegar at my Dogs!


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## wyoung2153

That was exactly my thought... but I also thought "I don't train dogs for a living, what do I know.. let me ask others." The water in the spray bottle (with a hint of vinegar just for the smell) is the direction I'm going IF i need to spray him with anything.


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## Deno

wyoung2153 said:


> Curious on y'alls thoughts.. Titan is so intent on barking at people who come into the house. He's not aggressive, just doesn't stop when you say so.. he knows the word "enough" very well but for some reason when he is in bark mode ONLY in the house.. will he pay no mind. I say enough and gors feom alert bark to excited bark and he continues. I say go to bed and he goes to bed yipping excitedly the whole way, lays down and excitedly barks and barks. He will sit there yipping for about 15 minutes. He is only allowed out of his bed when he's quiet. Once he is released, he just sniffs the guests and goes about his business.. Anyways.. nothing I have tried has broken this habit.. We've done the ignore until he's quiet.. and still do. We have done OB with him when someone comes to the door and he still barks crazily at the door/guests in between actions. I've leashed him and attempted correction.. that doesn't work.. I'm at a loss on how to fix this. I don't want him not to alert me but I want to be able to say "enough" and him be quiet.
> 
> Well we went to our one on one trainer yesterday for various small issues and she was fantastic.. before you dig into her and chastise her for suggesting this next method, just know she has been highly recommended to me by MANY dog trainers including my SAR team lead. She comes with an insane amount of titles and certs and it all really speaks for itself. Anyways she was wonderful and gave us some great homework and ideas for fixing some issues. The ONLY thing she suggested that turned me sideways was using vinegar on Titan when he barks. Not diluted vinegar.. but straight distilled white vinegar. She said because he is so intense and nothing will break him.. he needs something to pull him out of the moment.. she said it may irritate him but it's not going to do any damage at all. we conveniently had someone n pop in unannounced to which he responded like I knew he would barking like crazy.. again excitement not aggressive.. she sprayed him with it and he stopped. So it's effective.. but I'm just not sure how I feel about using vinegar.. There are very mixed reviews on the subject when I researched.. so that's why I came to you guys just to gather thoughts.. maybe someone has an experience with barking and can direct me too.. what are the thoughts?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App



I think a shock collar would take care of all of your problems.

After your command of enough is ignored you pop him. 

After a few of these corrections your problem would be over.

Your trainer is right about pulling him out of the moment.


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## wyoung2153

Definitely was not out of the realm of options for me. Wanted to see if I can curb it without it first but I have looked at a few at the store already.. would have to be another thing I bring up with my trainer is proper technique too. 

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## David Winners

jocoyn said:


> Have you put the bark on command then the quiet? Clicker training is also good for barking. You click/treat when he shuts up even for a second. Might help.....


This, and then give the dog something to do as a trained ritual when people come over. Mine go to their dog beds. Knock on the door or doorbell means go to the nearest bed and quietly stay there until released.

Sometimes stopping a behavior is much harder than replacing it.



David Winners


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## wyoung2153

David Winners said:


> This, and then give the dog something to do as a trained ritual when people come over. Mine go to their dog beds. Knock on the door or doorbell means go to the nearest bed and quietly stay there until released.
> 
> Sometimes stopping a behavior is much harder than replacing it.
> 
> 
> 
> David Winners


I think I need to be more consistent. I get so frustrated when something doesn't work the first few times, then I try something new. I think it's about time I put this patience thing into practice! I am going to go back to going to bed when people come over. Would you say just ignore him if he's still yipping while he's in bed? 

I have heard that about behaviors (harder to stop than just replace it) and am starting to better understand the concept better. I suppose I did it when he was a puppy without really knowing better.. he always pawed at me when I would be laying on the couch.. I got annoyed with it and taught him "high five" instead of trying to get him to stop. Someone told me that once a command is put to something, they will generally wait for the command before doing it. 

By them going to bed, does that stop the alert all together? Because I still want that initial alert.. that's what I'm worried about. especially when the BF deploys and I'm alone, I really want him to still alert. I think I worry that by training him to not bark.. he won't when someone is there ever.


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## NancyJ

I have learned the hard way. Consistency is EVERYTHING


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## Blanketback

wyoung2153 said:


> I get so frustrated when something doesn't work the first few times, then I try something new.


Yowza, can you imagine if someone tried to teach you something with that same stingy timeframe? LOL! I'd be lost. There's the easy lessons, like don't rearrange the embers with your bare hand...but some things really do take more than a few attempts. I'm not picking on you, just taking Titan's side. 

I like David's idea but not for my living situation. If I lived in a condo with security, then it would be perfect. I don't want my dog to be silent when someone comes to my door.


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## wyoung2153

Yeeeeah I'll admit, it's not my favorite trait I have.. I have to be reminded sometimes to chill out and be patient. 

And that's the thing.. I WANT the alert.. just the "hush" when I say so you know?


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## David Winners

wyoung2153 said:


> I think I need to be more consistent. I get so frustrated when something doesn't work the first few times, then I try something new. I think it's about time I put this patience thing into practice! I am going to go back to going to bed when people come over. Would you say just ignore him if he's still yipping while he's in bed?
> 
> I have heard that about behaviors (harder to stop than just replace it) and am starting to better understand the concept better. I suppose I did it when he was a puppy without really knowing better.. he always pawed at me when I would be laying on the couch.. I got annoyed with it and taught him "high five" instead of trying to get him to stop. Someone told me that once a command is put to something, they will generally wait for the command before doing it.
> 
> By them going to bed, does that stop the alert all together? Because I still want that initial alert.. that's what I'm worried about. especially when the BF deploys and I'm alone, I really want him to still alert. I think I worry that by training him to not bark.. he won't when someone is there ever.


Like Nancy said, consistency is everything, especially with a self rewarding behavior like barking. 

You can shape his response to the door knock any way you wish. What do you want him to do?

You can have him bark all the way to his bed, then lay down and be quiet. Just capture and put the bark on cue. Put the quiet command on cue. Teach the command to go to the bed. Teach the down stay on the bed. Then put it all together.

I know it sounds like a lot, but if you work on it several times a day for several days, it should come together pretty quick.

If you want a different response, train that instead. 

I would use a clicker, as I think it is a better tool to freeshape. I would also randomly reinforce the behavior by randomly leaving a jackpot of treats on the bed before you give a door knock. I do this forever with my dogs. They race to their beds when they hear a door knock.

Use your imagination and you will soon be training all kinds of cool stuff. Your dog will love it  

If you need help with any specific step, let me know.

If you need a primer on freeshaping behaviors, check out Zsianz1 YouTube channel, or Training Positive YouTube channel.


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## wyoung2153

Thank you David for the advice! I am going to try to put this into practice this weekend. I only have my BF to knock or ring the doorbell, once he is feeling better we will start it.. I am having fun training him in different things now.. so I hope this goes well with him.. again I know it's probably me and my inconsistency.. and the BF's he isn't to great at staying calm when he's annoyed and Titan's excited barking annoys him.. it is ear piercing sometimes, lol.


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## Liz&Anna

I didn't read every post, but I've heard using vinegar mixed with water does work and doesn't hurt the dog- the smell changes there state of mind. The have to stop what there doing and think about the odor. I to heard this from a very good local trainer who actually rehabilitates "dog aggressive" rescues from Baltimore city (mainly pits)


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## wyoung2153

That's very interesting.. she too used to rehabilitate aggressive dogs and she said that vinegar is the first thing she introduces to the dog. 

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## Blanketback

Does Titan get vocal when it's time to play outside? Mine does, so I'm using this as an exercise to teach him to control his barking. Besides him knowing what "Quiet" means, lol.


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## doggiedad

invite lots of people to visit so you can work on the barking.
how about spraying your dog with water instead of vinegar.
i wouldn't spray my dog. i would train/socialize to stop the
barking.


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## wyoung2153

Blanketback said:


> Does Titan get vocal when it's time to play outside? Mine does, so I'm using this as an exercise to teach him to control his barking. Besides him knowing what "Quiet" means, lol.


Oddly enough, not really. He will if I withhold the toy for some time and tease him with it. Then I tell him "shhh" and he's so good at it. he doesn't even get into a barking frenzy except for what I've talked about here.



doggiedad said:


> invite lots of people to visit so you can work on the barking.
> how about spraying your dog with water instead of vinegar.
> i wouldn't spray my dog. i would train/socialize to stop the
> barking.


That was my first thought too.. the not using a spray. Plus I really feel like he will just want to play with it.. though that would stop the barking, lol. Might not be so bad  I am definitely going to be taking some advice from everyone here. 

I think I decided last night, that the only time I REALLY want him to hush, is when guest are IN the house I don't mind so much if he barks when it's a random person coming to the door, so I will just have to have people over like you said. So he will then know.. when mom invites the person in, I have to be quiet.


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## Blanketback

Doggiedad, lol - that _is_ training. It's an aversive, or +P. Not one that you or I would choose to do, but this is what the trainer suggested. How did you get your dog to stopping the endless barking?


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## wyoung2153

Ooooh K! Progress has been made! We used a combination of the spray bottle and keeping him in his bed. When the doorbell rang (unexpectedly) I said "enough" and told Titan to go to bed.. Which he did.. yipping the whole way. Then when he kept barking (excitedly) I told him "enough" then sprayed him (99% water, a splash of vinegar) and after two sprays and an "enough" each time, he stopped and got treats. He then sat quietly and then was allowed out of bed. The first time, he barked the minute I said "ok" so I put him back in bed and he was quiet. I gave him a treat, and said "ok."

The second time someone came to the door (rare we get back to back visitors, lol) he ran to the door barking. I said "enough" and go to bed. This time he didn't go to bed right away, so I walked him over there. BUT he didn't bark as much. He did a few each one with an enough and a spray and he quieted. Then he got treated and released. 

Now if I can keep this up I think we will have some great progress!  Thank you guys for all the advice!


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## 3dognite

I have had the same trouble with Odin...obsessive, frantic barking. Good luck.


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## wyoung2153

3dognite said:


> I have had the same trouble with Odin...obsessive, frantic barking. Good luck.


It's interesting though because titan is just so excited. As soon as he meets everyone.. he's quiet as a mouse. I just need him to quiet before introductions. Lol. 

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## Blanketback

Way to go Titan, and even more importantly - way to go Whitney! Good for you for finding something that works, something that your dog can understand. Yay! There's nothing better than a dog that barks and also knows how to be quiet


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## wyoung2153

Yes! It was exciting to see the progress. Granted I know he won't always be perfect while training but it's comforting to see his potential 

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## wyoung2153

OK.. so we had some set backs.. and I need opinions/advice/I don't know.

So twice in the last week we have had guests to the house. On Saturday was guests he knew.. they were old neighbers that we still visit with regularly. So they texted me when they were there.. I put Titan in a down stay in his bed. When they came in he went NUTS. Not aggressive just high pitched excitement. He literally didn't settle for about 20 minutes. I mean literally vocal for 20 solid minutes with like 2 seconds in between to catch his breath. 

What did I do you ask? While they were coming in I said "Enough!!" and he quieted for a second. I said good boy.. but he didn't quit. He got sprayed with the water/vinegar mixture and while HATES it, would bark right through it, anticipating the spray. So I stopped that.. it clearly had no effect on him. I went to the ignoring.. which was a little more difficult because they had kids and kept trying to go over there, but eventually, 20 minutes to be exact, Titan quieted and was released and all was good. 

Incident 2: Maintenance workers.. SO normally with what work they were going to do.. outside and inside.. I would have just put Titan in a room since they would be in and out and no consistent. except they needed access to all the rooms, so I thought the back yard, as they only needed the front yard. Nope Gardener was supposed to be there so there goes that idea.. so knowing that is is solid on his "stay" I moved his bed to an out of the way area, where he could still see the workers.. and made him stay (leashed him just for sheer "just in case"). I got to the door before the guys were able to ring the doorbell. I told them I have a large dog that will stay where he's at but he will be very vocal in the beginning. I apologize ahead of time, and ask that they please ignore him and he will eventually calm down. 

So the bark fest begins. Pretty much the same as the previous guest visit. He didn't move. I had the leash in case but I really didn't need it. I was able to quiet him for a minute with distraction OB and treats but once that ended, he was back to barking and the man walking around the house. They guys went outside, and were working out there. I got this idea, that maybe he would calm down if he was outside with them (on lead of course) while they worked. Went outside with them.. he barked once.. then just watched them, in a down. Then when he noticably relaxed. I took him off lead to play fetch near them.. which I knew would be perfectly fine (when you know your dog you know your dog, so please don't chastise me for doing this, I knew he would be 100% ok) went as I planned and when we went back into the house and the workers came in, he was fine. kept him in a down stay the whole time to not bother them and he was quiet the whole time after that. 

Moral of the story.. he's got the "stay" which is awesome. He apparently does much better meeting people outside then walking inside. He acts Bat**** crazy if he is put in bed while people come inside and he has to sit there.. I'm not worried about crating him.. only because his stay is solid, if it weren't for that I would get the crate back out and crate him again... but that would not solve the vocals issue.. I mean is it farfetched to think maybe he would do better greeting with leash at the door first thing? I have never done that. It honestly doesn't bother me that he barks.. what bothers me is he doesn't listen to the "enough" this is literally the only time he ignores that command.. I'm serious. He knows it too, he stops for a second every time and then goes back at it. It's embarrassing and nerve racking when I have guests over and he does this. Like I have this crazy, out of control animal.. :help:


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