# Anyone EVER take the petco or petsmart training classes?



## pancake

The reason I ask is because even though I can do training myself and have read all the books and have the DVDs and do things like Tug with Michael Ellis, etc. the one thing I don't have is a controlled distracting environment and other dogs. I dont have access to other dogs so the socialization aspect of raising a puppy (IMO more important than obedience training) is out of my abilities. I tried doggie daycare at a nearby place that got great ratings. It's alright, it can be a great place, it was a great facility. But my dog did not like it, she was overwhelmed, hid under a play pen desk thing all the time, and when I picked her up she smelled of urine and was soaked in urine. Not taking her back there again. At least maybe not until she's older with more confidence. That was her first experience with other dogs of any kind. 

I'm looking into Petco or Petsmart training purely for the socialization and as an added bonus, the obedience work with distractions and treats would be a plus. But I'm willing to pay the $110 purely for the controlled socialization environment alone. 1 hour a week for 7 weeks is not bad for socialization exposure. I also like that the training is done in the stores with people all about and other dogs, scents, and lots of distractions. Probably more distractions than any other setting I can think of so I really favor that aspect.


I would like to hear from anyone who took or observed either the Petsmart or Petco classes for puppies and what they thought. I'd be interested in hearing the methodologies in training and also the general curriculum if possible. I called and got the name of the trainer at by nearby Petsmart store but google searches return no hits. As I understand it though, they have certain universal training curriculum for all the stores though. 


I need to decide between this, or a local training school. The local training school is obviously better in obedience training with proper teacher to dog ratio, more time spent training, full 3 hour orientation, 2hour lessons, and by the end of 6 weeks the dog will know more commands and things like heel. But I am not sure if the socialization aspect of training school is on par with a petco or petsmart. I WANT distractions and I want the environment where customers and kids are walking around, birds are chirping, cash registers are going off, dog food and pet scents are everywhere. Most importantly, I want other dogs and play time, interactions, training while other dogs are around, etc. 

Anyone?


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## wolfy dog

Observed them and would never recommend them; low quality training, too many distractions, too cramped quarters.


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## lkellen

pancake said:


> I need to decide between this, or a local training school. The local training school is obviously better in obedience training with proper teacher to dog ratio, more time spent training, full 3 hour orientation, 2hour lessons, and by the end of 6 weeks the dog will know more commands and things like heel. But I am not sure if the socialization aspect of training school is on par with a petco or petsmart.* I WANT distractions and I want the environment where customers and kids are walking around, birds are chirping, cash registers are going off, dog food and pet scents are everywhere.* Most importantly, I want other dogs and play time, interactions, training while other dogs are around, etc.
> 
> Anyone?


I have done neither of those classes, but have tried two different training programs. We are now on our 3rd trainer(one-on-one) but we are meeting at dog parks. So that way, the distractions are there, and Remy learns to work through them! Just a suggestion


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## llombardo

Every store and every trainer are going to be different. 2 of my dogs have done 3 classes each there and my oldest dog just started on Sunday. I love the trainer there, but she is very experienced and puts a lot of effort into training. She uses the training room and the store. She also brings in agility equipment and uses signs(Rally). She sets the dogs up to succeed in obedience, rally, agility, and getting their CGC's. Her dogs are therapy dogs and titled in different things. I'm gonna be sad if she decides to stop training She also trains at a local dog club.


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## blehmannwa

I worked as a PetSmart trainer and have taken lots of PetSmart classes. It's close to my house. The quality of the class is entirely dependent on the instructor. The cirriculum is pretty standard with an emphasis on positive reinforcement. The quality of the instructor varies a lot. Due to the very challenging nature of the environment, the instructor needs to be energetic and knowledgeable with a big toolbox as it can be extremely difficult to get the dog to focus.

The best advice that I can give you is to go observe the classes and talk to the instructor about their experience. The puppy and basic classes are the same, they teach sit, stay, loose leash walking, leave it and down. There is some work with distractions. Some times there may be a clicker component.

I think that on the whole the PetSmart cirriculum is solid and very geared toward the novice dog owner--which is usually the superstore customer base. For a more experienced owner, the distraction and socialization aspect can be very helpful. It all really comes down to the quality of the instructor.


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## pancake

Thanks! So for those who have attended or taught, how would you say the socialization is for the puppy class? I read somewhere they dont allow the dogs to interact or play at all. If it's going to be like that then I think that defeats the point of me going to petco or petsmart and rather go with a formal training school nearby. I kind of want a controlled environment where the puppies can play but also can learn manners and greet properly without jumping, etc. I want my puppy to kind of learn how to play with other dogs. Yesterday she barked at a dog across my house for the first time and I can already tell that its due to the lack of socialization with other dogs .she just doesnt know how to respond or what they are. I may have to stop by the petsmart today at their training class and just observe what's going on. If it has a good socialization aspect to it, i may shell out the $90. I have a $20 coupon  but the formal obedience school is way more comprehensive, they teach everything from sit and down to formal heels and recalls all in the basic course with 2minute stays. and 2 hour sessions for about $175. So double the price of petco or petsmart. 

Im going to attend that school any way but looking to see if i want to start the petsmart training first if it has a socialization component that is lacking in the other school.


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## gotahaveaGSD

I took Maya to Pets Mart for socialization and to take a puppy class when she was 4-5 months old. The trainer I thought was well skilled. The other thing to consider is the other people in the class, are they taking it seriously? 

The trainer would do about 2-3 skills ( like sit, stay )and we would work on them then be told to work on that for the next week, like homework. Like the others say above, it's not to bad for socialization, and for the basics. It's also good to introduce other sized dogs to yours. We had one German Shepard and two Beagles and a Yorkshire Terrier. It's not a dog park, so don't think the dogs are going to play for the hour. What I did was show up for class early to meet up with others with dogs. If I were to get another puppy I would do it again. So I say go and enjoy the classes and other dogs that are there.


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## gagsd

Why not just go, do your training in the store, and buy something while you are at it.
That is what I have done many times.


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## pancake

yeah could be a good idea. the training im not really excited about as she already know sit, down, sit from a down, go potty and outside, the meaning of no, and lay down. maybe ill just become a very frequent shopper haha

ill try to check the trainer at my local store. maybe shes good!


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## msvette2u

I think for an average pet owner, Petco/Petsmart is very good, since the goal of any training class is to train the HUMAN how to train the dog :thumbup:
If it's close, and convenient, go for it!


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## Magwart

I watched classes at a local Petco in California a few times. To me, it looked like a trainwreck--lots of out-of-control little dogs on retractable leads, in an space far too small for big dogs. 

The store's trainer saw us watching and then tried to come and sign us up. Amused, I asked her about her background. She had never titled a dog in anything (or even earned a CGC)--and she didn't know what it meant to "title" a dog. She explained that she was a cashier at Petco who had been "promoted" and attended a weekend-long seminar to learn the Petco dog training method. She'd been doing it for about 3 months. I can't say whether she's an exception or typical.

I agree that it's better to go there than not train the dog, though. Or if you just view it as a socialization hour, that's okay too. 

You might try Googling "[your town/county/state] obedience club" and see what pops up.  Some training groups have weekly socialization hours for people who are training with them and "alumni."


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## msvette2u

I've seen classes at a few of our places, the Yakima Petsmart seems to have the best area and all at this point. It's kind of enclosed off so the distractions are at a minimum.
No retractable leashes there, either


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## llombardo

pancake said:


> Thanks! So for those who have attended or taught, how would you say the socialization is for the puppy class? I read somewhere they dont allow the dogs to interact or play at all. .


In the puppy class the dogs were allowed to play in the last 5-10 minutes of the class. My trainer brings 2 of her dogs with her to class and uses them for demos, she has two Rotts and a pug. My golden was the first dog I brought there. About half way through the classes he was attacked by a Rott in the dog park. Instead of pulling him out of classes, we decided to move forward and I truly believe because of the socialization in that class plus the teachers Rott being present got my dog through with no side effects from the attack. Socialization doesn't have to be the dogs playing, dogs being in the same area goes a long way. It gets dogs used to having other dogs around. My GSD is very good with other dogs and I can bring anything into the house with no problems. Prong collars and retractable leashes are not allowed.


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## NancyJ

Watch the instructor you are interested in. I went in once because I got Cyra in the summer and the kennel club had no sessions until the Fall. I knew what I wanted - some basic motivational obedience and socialization so it was good.


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## Jim Brewer

We did one at pet smart. The trainer was the best for our boy. 


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## Meeka

I'm w/u pancake! My pup knows all the basic command and some but when she's outside of the house and neighborhood, all she wants to do is sniff and pull!  and when she sees other dogs she would bark up a storm but I know that's only because she wants to play. I just enrolled in a petsmart puppy class just for your same reason! I'm starting Thursday so ill let u know how it goes! 


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## ShelbyCD

We just started puppy class at petsmart with our 3 and half month GSD, Shelby. There are 3 other puppies in the class. The trainer has been training dogs for 30+ years. She doesn't let the puppies play because she said they're there to learn. Trust me, even though they aren't playing, it makes a huge difference just being 5-15 feet away from other dogs/their owners and having to focus on skills. We have only been to two classes but our trainer has already noticed what each dog needs work on and incorporates it into the class for all of the puppies and owners to work on. Shelby is very hyper, so she's taught us specific ways to help with to control that. Each location will be different, but I have nothing but positive things to say so far.


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## julie87

Mine went to Petsmart puppy training, the trainer had 8 years of dog training experience, she was horrible. she made it clear she doesn't like GSD because they can be so stubborn and needy, she was losing her patience all the time, and she would talk about her own dogs more than she would talk about the ones in the class. Also, the store is not ideal place for training, its crampped, lots of people are peeking to see whats going on in class which causes even more distractions, my dog didn't learn anything new other than walking on leash .... spent $110 for nothing. But each store will have their own trainers...I suggest get a GSD trainer.


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## llombardo

julie87 said:


> . Also, the store is not ideal place for training, its crampped, lots of people are peeking to see whats going on in class which causes even more distractions, my dog didn't learn anything new other than walking on leash ....


This would be the point. If one can train their dog in the middle of this, then they are getting a good start. I don't know about everyone else, but I take advantage of any distractions I can get. In my golden's class the dogs were on a 3 minute down stay when someone walked into the store with their dog off leash...not one of the dogs in training moved, I think that is pretty good.


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## julie87

llombardo said:


> This would be the point. If one can train their dog in the middle of this, then they are getting a good start. I don't know about everyone else, but I take advantage of any distractions I can get. In my golden's class the dogs were on a 3 minute down stay when someone walked into the store with their dog off leash...not one of the dogs in training moved, I think that is pretty good.


 
In a more advanced obedience class distractions are welcome, but not for the first time puppy class. It takes too much of dog's attention away from the trainer.


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## lkellen

julie87 said:


> But each store will have their own trainers...I suggest get a GSD trainer.


That's what I just did! Training started on Sunday, and even with one session- I've seen a world of difference than any other class we've been to. 


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## julie87

lkellen said:


> That's what I just did! Training started on Sunday, and even with one session- I've seen a world of difference than any other class we've been to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Yey glad to hear you like the trainer and its GSD trainer!  I am having a hard time finding one in my area


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## doggiedad

you have distractions. use that time to train.



Meeka said:


> I'm w/u pancake! My pup knows all the basic command and some but when
> 
> >>> she's outside of the house and neighborhood, all she wants to do is sniff and pull!<<<
> 
> and >>>when she sees other dogs she would bark up a storm but I know that's only because she wants to play.<<<
> 
> I just enrolled in a petsmart puppy class just for your same reason! I'm starting Thursday so ill let u know how it goes!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## SS-GSD

If we had a half decent trainer then I'd consider it for the exposure but sadly our trainer is just annoying and I dread going into the store when she's there. Everyone I know hates her and wishes she would be fired already. My older dogs are well trained but she still bugs me every time I go in to SHOP that I need to train under her. God forbid I've got the puppy with me because if she even sniffs anything the woman reminds me that "I've obviously failed as an owner" and "need to get into her class ASAP". She got onto me the other day when I came in with puppy because she asked if my dog could have a treat while I was checking out and so I said sure. Normally people give my dog the treat and some pets, this woman didn't pull the treat out but instead told my dog to SIT really harshly and gave her some kind of hand signal. Puppy didn't sit because puppy doesn't know English commands. This woman flips on me telling me how I need to train my dog better, get her into her classes, assumes I always hold a treat for my dog to make it do something, ect. I wanted to start cussing her out in German and when SHE doesn't understand what I'm saying, start going on in English about how her mother failed as a parent because she doesn't know a language she wasn't taught. 

But that's my rant for the day. Lol! Sit in on a class, if the trainer is nice and seems knowledgeable and the situation doesn't seem like a train wreak then take the classes. You get a money back guarantee if you're not satisfied by the end of the course.


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## lkellen

julie87 said:


> Yey glad to hear you like the trainer and its GSD trainer!  I am having a hard time finding one in my area


Where are you located? I actually googled trainers specific to German shepherds and thought I had found one and a friend actually recommended the guy we went with. He's a K9 trainer/handler with his OWN german shepherds- I liked that!! 

We actually meet at dog parks and welcome the distractions as he says it's much better to train them to work through the distraction. 

Tonight, I walked Remy with my normal assumption of her pulling and jumping and biting on the leash. I was amazed to see that one 3 hour session had her walking like a pro! So happy with my decision already. 


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## julie87

lkellen said:


> Where are you located? I actually googled trainers specific to German shepherds and thought I* had found one and a friend actually recommended the guy we went with. He's a K9 trainer/handler with his OWN german shepherds*- I liked that!!
> 
> We actually meet at dog parks and welcome the distractions as he says it's much better to train them to work through the distraction.
> 
> Tonight, I walked Remy with my normal assumption of her *pulling and jumping and biting on the leash.* I was amazed to see that one 3 hour session had her walking like a pro! So happy with my decision already.
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that kind of trainer. And my dog just recentely straterd playing with her leash on our walks ans so far my training techniques are uncesseful I would have to do more research and hope to findng one...


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## llombardo

julie87 said:


> In a more advanced obedience class distractions are welcome, but not for the first time puppy class. It takes too much of dog's attention away from the trainer.


The dog's attention shouldn't be on the trainer, it should be on its handler/owner. This would be the ideal situation for a dog to learn how to focus, starting in the first class.


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## lkellen

julie87 said:


> lkellen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could find that kind of trainer. And my dog just recentely straterd playing with her leash on our walks ans so fart my training techniques are uncesseful I would have to do more research and hope to findng one...
> 
> 
> 
> I would honestly try to find a k9 trainer. I never thought to search for that, but I'm glad I was introduced to our trainer by a friend. I'm not trying to have her be a police dog by any means- but our trainer actually runs his own Schutzhund club and trains dogs for competitions. I was amazed when he showed me his 2 males. Not only were they absolutely BEAUTIFUL, they were the most well behaved and most obedient dogs I have ever seen. It was seriously awesome, and I cannot wait for the training sessions to continue!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
Click to expand...


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## Gharrissc

I did observe a class and wasn't impressed at all.


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## pancake

Seems like it's 50/50, it just depends on the trainer I guess. But good to know that there are some good ones out there with tons of experience just wearing the label of Petco or Petsmart, and others who are bad. This calls for a personal inspection. 

I have changed my criteria slightly. Now that I think about it, having dogs play off leash would be a very bad idea and I'm glad they dont do that. dogs who have never experienced other dogs can be overly frightened and they are still new to reading dog body language. 

I called the formal training school nearby and she seems to be the best option. She has over 20 years of experience, especially with k9 and police handling but also she has tons and tons of experience with german shepherds from what she says. Also, she mentioned that her class there is no off leash play time but dogs are taught to act politely and exposed to other dogs in a very reasonable fashion. The whole day care, throwing the dog into the play pen with other dogs wasn't a good fit for my dog. When she came back, she was covered in urine, and super amped up. Unsupervised day cares are the worst cause all the dogs are screaming their lungs off and running around and for a small puppy that kind of environment and energy takes them unstable. So I think organized structure and training with the focus on me while addressing other dogs in very close proximity would be a good start for me. Maybe a private with the trainer and her dogs for a small introduction. 

I still might check out the petco or petsmart cause I had a good friendly talk with the manager and it's $90 for 7 weeks. If the socialization is done right and the trainer seems like she knows what she's doing, I might sign up. $12/session is not bad at all.


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## julie87

Sounds like you in good hands and it affordable.


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## llombardo

lkellen said:


> I would honestly try to find a k9 trainer. I never thought to search for that, but I'm glad I was introduced to our trainer by a friend. I'm not trying to have her be a police dog by any means- but our trainer actually runs his own Schutzhund club and trains dogs for competitions. I was amazed when he showed me his 2 males. Not only were they absolutely BEAUTIFUL, they were the most well behaved and most obedient dogs I have ever seen. It was seriously awesome, and I cannot wait for the training sessions to continue!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


What kind of training do they use? Positive, prong, etc?


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## gsdlover91

Berlin is currently in the puppy class, he graduates soon. I signed him up there for socialization (not play time - he is like triple the size of ALL the other dogs lol) but just so he could learn to focus on me when other dogs and distractions are around, and learn how to act around other dogs (not bark, go crazy, pull) It has definitely helped him out SOOO much. He barely pays attention to the other dogs now, he is just so focused on learning! He loves school  The trainer here teaches very well, Berlin has excelled and learns WAY faster than the other dogs, and she has given me and him a more advanced curriculum to work on there. They have us train out in the store as well, and our trainer only allows 4-5 dogs max. So, its no K9 training, but for the basics, and getting your dog to ignore distractions, it is well worth the money, I am happy with it! I will probably do one or two more here and then take berlin to the local k9 training place here. 


Oh btw its at petsmart, i am not fond of the local petco training. the staff was rude and trying to push me into signing up there, and I have NEVER seen any dog being trained there. ever. Atleast before I signed up at petsmart, I was able to talk with the trainers for a long time, and they listened to what I was looking to get out of the class.


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## lkellen

llombardo said:


> What kind of training do they use? Positive, prong, etc?


We tried positive first with her leash walking. When she still refused to stop biting the leash, jumping on me, and pulling, he brought out his prong and suggested I go ahead and buy one- I've had one before from a different training program, but I did not like how the trainer treated remy, so I never used it. Now I can't imagine a walk without it as she knows how strong she is and will take off after anything. 

So, I don't think the prong will be a constant use in training, I think it will be more for attitude/behavior adjustments. She only needed one correction on Sunday and then she realized what was expected of walking on the leash. 

We still have a looonnggg way to go, though. Especially since we discovered she has only been treat/collar trained. (Which is why the prong wont become a staple in training) she has no association with the word when you say it. However, we just got SIT down, I'm very pleased with only one session. 


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## Zisso

I did it when I first got Zisso. Excellent trainer. However, she let him pass when he shouldn't have. Waste of money in my opinion. He was still fearful of dogs bigger than him at 'Graduation'. Trainer was partial to GSD's and had her older (8 years or so) GSD in class with her every day. Flat collar was only thing allowed and was worthless for corrections. Treats were a BIG thing in class, but of course the liver they recommended gave my boy diarrhea from the get go.


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## lkellen

Zisso said:


> I did it when I first got Zisso. Excellent trainer. However, she let him pass when he shouldn't have. Waste of money in my opinion. He was still fearful of dogs bigger than him at 'Graduation'. Trainer was partial to GSD's and had her older (8 years or so) GSD in class with her every day. *Flat collar was only thing allowed and was worthless for corrections.* Treats were a BIG thing in class, but of course the liver they recommended gave my boy diarrhea from the get go.



When I was buying Remy's first prong collar, (for after a 2 week training/trainer absolute fail that I take partial blame for, for being dumb enough to think a 2 week board and train would get her to listen to me, when really, I needed help LEARNING how to train her, myself), the cashier commented on how they *R**EFUSE* to train dogs that have been previously or are trained with prong collars. I decided then, that if I ever needed another training program, I would NOT be going to them.


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## pancake

lkellen said:


> When I was buying Remy's first prong collar, (for after a 2 week training/trainer absolute fail that I take partial blame for, for being dumb enough to think a 2 week board and train would get her to listen to me, when really, I needed help LEARNING how to train her, myself), the cashier commented on how they *R**EFUSE* to train dogs that have been previously or are trained with prong collars. I decided then, that if I ever needed another training program, I would NOT be going to them.


Yeah the reason why they don't allow ANY form of corrections is that they have managed to "produce" training like a product. And as a large franchise it'd be a huge liability and risk to allow any form of corrections or prong collars. Not that it's not useful but from a business standpoint, it only takes a few trainers that mess up to get a big lawsuit whereas with positive training, less can go wrong in the eyes of the public. 

My dog may need to get on the prong or some training collar soon. She doesn't even respond to martingale corrections whatsoever. She will sit and make eye contact when I stop but the minute I move my feet she darts forward with all her force. I tried stopping and starting again, over and over and over but she will just stop, relax and when it's go time she will sprint with full force. I do like Michael Ellis' approach to leash pressure, which is very simple really. You put on a training prong collar, and you give SLIGHT, constant pressure. So if the dog is next to you, you pull forward on the leash (straight forward, not up) and the dog will give into the pressure and the minute he/she does, you release pressure, mark the behavior with "Yes!" and follow up with a treat. Pretty soon he or she realizes that to turn off the pressure, just to move away from it quickly and there is negative reinforcement (take away the bad feeling from the leash) as well as positive reinforcement. 
He also mentioned that dogs that get only positive reinforcement (he had 2 dogs like this) have problems later, and both his dogs shut down for his protection work and what not because they never learned how to deal with turning off pressure or stress. I think that's a very good trait to have in a dog that ultimately helps them to cope with stressful situations and to become a more hardy dog. but that's kind of off topic.


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## Magwart

lkellen said:


> When I was buying Remy's first prong collar, (for after a 2 week training/trainer absolute fail that I take partial blame for, for being dumb enough to think a 2 week board and train would get her to listen to me, when really, I needed help LEARNING how to train her, myself), the cashier commented on how they *R**EFUSE* to train dogs that have been previously or are trained with prong collars. I decided then, that if I ever needed another training program, I would NOT be going to them.


I'd have been steamed too! BTW, If you bought a prong at PetSmart/Petco, please know that there are far, far better prong collars out there -- the quick-release version from Herm Sprenger is _so _much better than the ones sold at the big box stores that require you to connect and disconnect the links to get it on and off your dog. (I've never seen the Sprenger collars in my local PetSmart/Petco.)


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## lkellen

pancake said:


> My dog may need to get on the prong or some training collar soon. She doesn't even respond to martingale corrections whatsoever. *She will sit and make eye contact when I stop but the minute I move my feet she darts forward with all her force. I tried stopping and starting again, over and over and over but she will just stop, relax and when it's go time she will sprint with full force.* I do like Michael Ellis' approach to leash pressure, which is very simple really. You put on a training prong collar, and you give SLIGHT, constant pressure. So if the dog is next to you, you pull forward on the leash (straight forward, not up) and the dog will give into the pressure and the minute he/she does, you release pressure, mark the behavior with "Yes!" and follow up with a treat. Pretty soon he or she realizes that to turn off the pressure, just to move away from it quickly and there is negative reinforcement (take away the bad feeling from the leash) as well as positive reinforcement.
> He also mentioned that dogs that get only positive reinforcement (he had 2 dogs like this) have problems later, and both his dogs shut down for his protection work and what not because they never learned how to deal with turning off pressure or stress. I think that's a very good trait to have in a dog that ultimately helps them to cope with stressful situations and to become a more hardy dog. but that's kind of off topic.


Remy does that too. I also bought a leash for her last night that is called The Grrrip 2 in 1- pictured there. It has 2 handles, one at the end of the leash, and one closer to the clip. I LOVE the handle closer to the clip. I use the regular handle, and if Remy gets sidetracked or is doing something she is not supposed to, I just grab the other handle and everything is good again  I'll see if I can get her to sit still long enough to take a picture when we go on our walk to show you! 

However, I honestly could not handle walking her without a Prong collar- she is so strong and she knows it! She will barrel her head down and get kinda low to the ground and just PULL full force if she wants to go somewhere and I'm usually left sprinting behind her! With the Prong (and being able to grab that closer handle)- she acts PERFECT! I don't intend to use it for anything other than walking, as that is our biggest problem.


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## lkellen

Magwart said:


> I'd have been steamed too! BTW, If you bought a prong at PetSmart/Petco, please know that there are far, far better prong collars out there -- the quick-release version from Herm Sprenger is _so _much better than the ones sold at the big box stores that require you to connect and disconnect the links to get it on and off your dog. (I've never seen the Sprenger collars in my local PetSmart/Petco.)


Well, I just looked at the lady and said "I didn't get my dog trained here- she was trained somewhere else that happens to use this collar."

Now, with our new trainer, he suggested we buy one since he ended up having to use one on Remy to correct her leash-walking behaviors. She only needed ONE correction, and since that one correction on Sunday, it's AWESOME to walk her! I did buy her collar at Petco, so I will definitely be looking into that quick-release version. Trying to get those **** links disconnected bruised my fingers!!


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## lkellen

pancake said:


> My dog may need to get on the prong or some training collar soon. She doesn't even respond to martingale corrections whatsoever. She will sit and make eye contact when I stop but the minute I move my feet she darts forward with all her force. I tried stopping and starting again, over and over and over but she will just stop, relax and when it's go time she will sprint with full force


Here is the leash I was talking about- I don't know how well you'll be able to see it, but the two walks we've gone on since getting it, she's been awesome!(it's connected to the prong)

















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## pancake

Oh that's pretty cool. I'm not sure if you've heard but i heard the quick release ones are a safety hazard due to accidentally coming apart and having your dog get away. Well, at least Leerburg seems to think so but I'm not sure as I have no experience with it. I have to buy one soon though. You're right about walking without a prong. Some dogs are fine but man other dogs will not give and no amount of food or toy rewards will stop pulling when they are focused in on something they want more than anything in the world. And if that's the case with my other dog, I'm being dragged right along with her. Actually she doesn't pull anymore, (the older dog) so I use a slip chain with her. If i dont use it, even the slightest movement like bending down to smell something will drag me and I'm on the strong side. It's much easier and also much better for the dog to stop them from pulling or lunging through their own will even if it means a little bit of training with a prong or adversive than to fight with them hand and foot and make it a physical struggle. Me pulling back while my dog pulling forward does no one any good haha


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## llombardo

lkellen said:


> When I was buying Remy's first prong collar, (for after a 2 week training/trainer absolute fail that I take partial blame for, for being dumb enough to think a 2 week board and train would get her to listen to me, when really, I needed help LEARNING how to train her, myself), the cashier commented on how they *R**EFUSE* to train dogs that have been previously or are trained with prong collars. I decided then, that if I ever needed another training program, I would NOT be going to them.


I don't think this is standard. My trainer encouraged me to go to other trainers that used prongs. My trainer is pretty much a positive trainer at Petsmart and at a dog club. In fact the other trainer at Petsmart and a cashier help fit my dog for her prong that she has used maybe 3 times. She was trained on a flat and never required more, if she did I would have considered a prong, but its not my first choice.


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## selzer

I have taken two, and I have observed as well. 

The first lady was good. She did encourage me to go to shows with my dogs and had done so. That was an ok experience. 

The boy in the next class was terrible. He was just totally inexperienced and had no clue. 

I saw one of the trainers trying to get the owners to use a treat bag with one hand and a jar of pennies with the other, and somewhere there was a clicker, and I was like, wow! The puppy and I were on the same page, completely confused.

But my last visit to Petsmart, there was an advanced class working near the door. they were doing a game where each had their dog do a behavior, then another member added a behavior and each class member did both behaviors, and they kept on going. It was something like SIT, DOWN, STAY, RECALL, SIT, TWO DOGGIE PUSH UPS, PUT A TREAT ON THE PAW, LEAVE IT. It was actually pretty impressive for them to have gotten to that point with PetsMart training. 

So, it really does depend on the instructor. Some are good, some are not so good.


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## llombardo

I have a question for all those that have GSD's....I'm reading about them pulling(I understand this because my golden is a puller), but do any of the dogs circle you? We did a follow me exercise and one of the trainers used us as an example and said..She will never lose Robyn, she is a GSD. The dog doesn't go more then 10 ft off leash and on leash she stays with me or goes slightly ahead and turns and waits for me and she is always checking in with me...I thought this was kinda standard with GSD's in general Or is this more general when they get older and are trained?


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## lkellen

llombardo said:


> I have a question for all those that have GSD's....I'm reading about them pulling(I understand this because my golden is a puller), but do any of the dogs circle you? We did a follow me exercise and one of the trainers used us as an example and said..She will never lose Robyn, she is a GSD. The dog doesn't go more then 10 ft off leash and on leash she stays with me or goes slightly ahead and turns and waits for me and she is always checking in with me...I thought this was kinda standard with GSD's in general Or is this more general when they get older and are trained?


Is the checking in thing normal?

I usually let go of Remy's leash when we get to my apt stairs because she likes to RACE up them and I can't keep up. But she stops right at the top and looks at me and waits. She's always looking for me if I'm behind or not right beside her. I've never trained her to do that and she's only 9 mos old. I don't think it's an older dog thing. 


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## selzer

Here I always thought I trained the dogs to turn and come back if I dropped the lead. They just do it naturally.


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## llombardo

lkellen said:


> Is the checking in thing normal?
> 
> I usually let go of Remy's leash when we get to my apt stairs because she likes to RACE up them and I can't keep up. But she stops right at the top and looks at me and waits. She's always looking for me if I'm behind or not right beside her. I've never trained her to do that and she's only 9 mos old. I don't think it's an older dog thing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Mine does check in automatically and that was enforced by one trainer I had. That trainer was very big in what she called life saving commands, she just thought that those commands were must haves..things like wait, an emergency recall word, the auto check in, and follow me kinda things. I couldn't get my dog to race ahead of me for anything. If I dropped the leash she would look at me like I was crazy and stay with me Not that long ago when I was walking her I fell and she stayed right by side in my face kissing me, that was a huge relief because she could have ran away and I would have had to chase her.


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## pancake

Do GSDs really not leave and run off? Something to look forward to while my puppy drives me up the walls sometimes. I love how theyre so loyal, almost needy haha

Maybe that would make recall easier to train than a dog like a siberian husky which is always a plus.


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## lkellen

llombardo said:


> Mine does check in automatically and that was enforced by one trainer I had. That trainer was very big in what she called life saving commands, she just thought that those commands were must haves..things like wait, an emergency recall word, the auto check in, and follow me kinda things. I couldn't get my dog to race ahead of me for anything. If I dropped the leash she would look at me like I was crazy and stay with me Not that long ago when I was walking her I fell and she stayed right by side in my face kissing me, that was a huge relief because she could have ran away and I would have had to chase her.



I don't know if you've read my previous posts in this thread where I've said that we found out Remy was treat/collar trained and we are now training with a k9 trainer/handler(who has his own GSDS and runs a Schutzhund agility/obedience competition/training club-- which I CAN'T wait to get Remy into once she's ready!!) who works WITH us, not separately. Her first session was Sunday and she got SIT down Monday night. I was so proud. She now sits and waits at the door/stairs until I say "okay!" For her to follow me. I love it! I can't wait to continue sessions. 

However, I wanted to respond due to your saying "emergency recall word" is that a different word other than their name? Remy has NO recall whatsoever, and our trainer said we will work on that after we get her basics down. 


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## lkellen

pancake said:


> Do GSDs really not leave and run off? Something to look forward to while my puppy drives me up the walls sometimes. I love how theyre so loyal, almost needy haha
> 
> Maybe that would make recall easier to train than a dog like a siberian husky which is always a plus.


in my experience, YES, they do!!! Luckily, it's only happened twice. I opened the door and she sprinted out. Both times, I was able to catch her before she ran out into our very very busy street beside. 


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## pancake

lkellen said:


> I don't know if you've read my previous posts in this thread where I've said that we found out Remy was treat/collar trained and we are now training with a k9 trainer/handler(who has his own GSDS and runs a Schutzhund agility/obedience competition/training club-- which I CAN'T wait to get Remy into once she's ready!!) who works WITH us, not separately. Her first session was Sunday and she got SIT down Monday night. I was so proud. She now sits and waits at the door/stairs until I say "okay!" For her to follow me. I love it! I can't wait to continue sessions.
> 
> However, I wanted to respond due to your saying "emergency recall word" is that a different word other than their name? Remy has NO recall whatsoever, and our trainer said we will work on that after we get her basics down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Usually what lots of trainers will teach is to get the dog to come when you call their name. But the command "come" or something else used as emergency recall is used only in an emergency and set up for high probability for success. The way I've seen it done with treats or toys is to use the word and give him/her the best treat you can find. Do this multiple times a day and for a while. Give her something she values over anything including possibly that squirrel or something else in the field. The idea is that she'll come running over because that command is used only for the best treats. That's the only way I know of using treats. I'm sure there are other ways to do this using different training methods though.

My dog won't run away but she's only 16 weeks old now. She does dart every single chance she gets. She knows commands and will do them no problem. If I make her sit, down, etc. she will do it and wait as long as I make her. The problem is when I release, she uses all that drive to lunge forward and surge. There is no in between impulse control lots of the time. Well, not yet at least. Prong collar and proper training will help with that. The other exercise I started was to leave her crate door open while I am in the same room. I'm across the room on the couch but doing stuff on the computer. She is not allowed to get out until I give the release. This teaches her impulse control as she doesn't like being separated and wants out of the crate to follow me around everywhere. But by doing this, this teaches her that there are boundaries and limitations.


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## llombardo

lkellen said:


> However, I wanted to respond due to your saying "emergency recall word" is that a different word other than their name? Remy has NO recall whatsoever, and our trainer said we will work on that after we get her basics down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


I have three different ways of recalling mine. I use the come command, the front command, and only if needed the emergency word recall. I find that the front command works the best and is by far my favorite. For the emergency recall you pick a word(teacher recommended words like danger, alert, etc), you say this word, when the dog looks at you its given a very high value treat..you are to do this about 10 times a day and about 10 times in each session. Once they learn it, you have to practice it every now and then so you know that they remember it. As far as the dog darting, the wait command is great..it can end the darting out of the door, car, etc days


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## lkellen

llombardo said:


> I have three different ways of recalling mine. I use the come command, the front command, and only if needed the emergency word recall. I find that the front command works the best and is by far my favorite. For the emergency recall you pick a word(teacher recommended words like danger, alert, etc), you say this word, when the dog looks at you its given a very high value treat..you are to do this about 10 times a day and about 10 times in each session. Once they learn it, you have to practice it every now and then so you know that they remember it. As far as the dog darting, the wait command is great..it can end the darting out of the door, car, etc days



I like this idea! Her recall training may have to wait until we re-get the basics down, though. She definitely needs some kind of command to get her back to me or stop her from darting somewhere


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