# Choosing food is no walk in the park



## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Berlin has been on Fromm Gold since I got him in September...recently I switched over to Blue Buffalo LBP, but just bought a bag of TOTW puppy because I am not *crazy* for the BB, pretty expensive...and I preferred the Fromm over it. Anyways. I've been switching foods because since I've had him, he has not really had normal, solid stools at all. It almost always is 'mushy', sometimes worse. He has been tested numerous times and he has nothing...so I'm assume it's the food. 

Also- he gets one pouch a day of the Nutro puppy beef and veg wet food..but I just bought a can of the Merrick puppy wet food. He likes Merrick alot more. Opinions??

What do you guys think? What food, out of those three is best? Is anything else similar to those that is ideally under $50 for a 30lb bag? Is the food even his problem?! lol, I just have no idea what else to do. I've tried pumpkin, probiotics, anti-diarrheals, etc etc etc....is he sensitive to a certain food??


oh and...is 1.4:1.1 calcium: phos ratio too high for the TOTW? Finding a food is so confusing and it sucks because the Fromm was perfect (not for him apparently)


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

If your dog hasn't had good stools on any of the foods you've given him, you're really going to have to start looking into the ingredients a lot more. Seeing what you have/have not given him and what he does better on and what he does worse on. Fromm is an excellent food to try that with because they have tons of different proteins. Your dog is old enough to get off of puppy food at this point and many of the Fromm grain free foods have just as much or even more protein than their LBP food.

LBP is duck based, so maybe go with a different protein. Whitefish/salmon is always a good one to try when the regular proteins might not be agreeing with your dog's tummy. In the end, without doing HARDCORE research into % of this, and % of that, I trust most of the "holistic" brands. Plus...the more research you do, the more likely you are go be scared of an ingredient that is 1 out of 1000000000 parts in the dog food and are likely to go all raw anyways (if you have the time).

My dog is 2.5, we switched him to a regular food when he turned 1. Did fine for a while, then all the sudden had issues. We switched from brand to brand, tried a bunch of the fromms and finally just went back to the LBP. He likes it, he eats it, he does just fine on it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Well it's been my experience that the wet food could also be causing a bit of loose stool. I found when switching foods, it takes a good two weeks to see the stools firm up from the switch also. And it may take three weeks before they look normal color wise. If he was just a little pup in September, it takes a while before they stop eating all sorts of stuff too---that can impact stools additionally. 

My dog did very well on Orijen, But never loved it. Recently I switched him to Pioneers Natural Venison formula. It's grain free and uses sweet potatoes and yams instead of russet potato. A 30 pound bag costs $48.95. 

HE FREAKING LOVES IT.


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## robfromga (May 10, 2012)

*tagged for interest*

We feed Blue Buffalo, Willie and Simone do great with it, Zane can get some loose stools. I add some pumpkin, for a treat every day. They all love the pumpkin and it helps Zane. I'd love to find the magic food that doesn't cost $50 per 30# and they all tolerate.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Overfeeding can also cause loose stools. Just an option. With any kibble, I do use supplemental digestive enzymes. Not sure if that is good advice but I find things work better that way. I figure they are not built to digest starches and you can pick your starch with any kibble; they all have it be it potatoes or grains or peas.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you're right, choosing food is no walk in the park.
it's a pet in the pet store, :laugh:. when feeding pumpkin
i suggest usuing fresh pumpkin (baked) or in a can
( nothing added). maybe there's something in the
puppy food that's not working for your pup. try
adult food.


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## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

robfromga said:


> We feed Blue Buffalo, Willie and Simone do great with it, Zane can get some loose stools. I add some pumpkin, for a treat every day. They all love the pumpkin and it helps Zane. I'd love to find the magic food that doesn't cost $50 per 30# and they all tolerate.


 

Have you looked into Earthborn Holistic? It's sold at speciality stores and online, and is probably the least expensive of all of the premium brands (Orijen, Acana, Fromm, etc) and still had really good ingredients. I think it's like $40 something for the largets bag.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

this was supposed to say "it's a walk in the pet store", :laugh:.



doggiedad said:


> you're right, choosing food is no walk in the park.
> 
> >>>> it's a pet in the pet store, :laugh:<<<<
> 
> ...


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

I feel your pain!!! I looked at foods for a week.. like 100 hours put in altogether before settling on Innova. Then a week ago I thought maybe I'd change him to something else. Decided at this point I'm NOT going through that again! Acana was recommended to me from the guy at the store... after Orijen. The increase in protein is just too much with Orijen, IMO. I decided to just stick with the Innova for now and re-think things when he's older and 'working' more. Earthborne I think was a recommended food that wasn't so expensive, too. If they change the formula on Innova, I'm really going to be in a pinch. A lot of foods are made by the same company, so you may want to look into that, too. Food recalls are at the top of my list, because my boy's dad was poisoned by a high end food that was recalled. 

I agree that the wet food (especially since it's a different kind) could be causing the runs.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Find a good food and get the kibble and stick with just one thing for a bit. With adding pouches of this and cans of that, you'll never narrow down where the loose stool is originating. There are quite a few good foods to choose from out there, off the top of my head of the most popular among our clients I'd say TOTW, Orejen, Acana, Nature's Variety Instinct, Evangers and Innova seem to be doing well. We didn't have good luck with TOTW, but many of our clients swear by it. When we run across a client having issues with loose stool we recommend the Nature's Variety Instinct since it has Tapioca in it which is very helpful with irritated digestive systems. Mostly we tell people to pick one and stick with it for a few weeks to allow the dog to totally adjust to it and then make a judgement. If they don't seem to improve after a good try THEN consider changing. Sometimes it's the protein source itself, we have one dog who just can't do beef, when we switched him to a chicken based food he improved in a matter of weeks. So now everyone at our house is on a chicken based food for simplicity.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I am not much help when it comes to finding a kibble since I feed a home cooked diet but here is a site that may help:

http://www.rateitall.com/t-353-dog-food-brands.aspx

Good luck,
Michaela


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I guess I should try and stop the wet food and see if that helps - didn't even think of that. 

Is cal/phos ratio something i need to worry about??? I know you want it low - but is 1.4/1 too high??? Fromm had the lowest (ugh yet another reason why I liked it) 1/0.95%. BB is 1.2/0.95 and TOTW is 1.4/1%. I just am concerned about bone health and do not wanna feed him something that will cause him damage. At what age do I not need to worry about the cal/phos levels?? Many of the adult foods have a high cal/phos ratio. 



martemchik said:


> If your dog hasn't had good stools on any of the foods you've given him, you're really going to have to start looking into the ingredients a lot more. Seeing what you have/have not given him and what he does better on and what he does worse on. Fromm is an excellent food to try that with because they have tons of different proteins. Your dog is old enough to get off of puppy food at this point and many of the Fromm grain free foods have just as much or even more protein than their LBP food.
> 
> LBP is duck based, so maybe go with a different protein. Whitefish/salmon is always a good one to try when the regular proteins might not be agreeing with your dog's tummy.


Is it usually the proteins they are sensitive to?? Or could it be ANY of the ingredients - even like the oatmeal, flaxseed, peas etc??? BB LBP (What he is currently on, he has just finished the transition period so now its 100% BB - no fromm mixed in) has chicken as the main protein so I will see if that helps, also while taking the wet food out. If his stools are still not better (and the gas :wild, I am going to try the TOTW puppy, the protein is bison and lamb. 

Is 5 months old, old enough for him to be on an adult food?? I was told to keep him on it until a year old. 



RocketDog said:


> Well it's been my experience that the wet food could also be causing a bit of loose stool. I found when switching foods, it takes a good two weeks to see the stools firm up from the switch also. And it may take three weeks before they look normal color wise. If he was just a little pup in September, it takes a while before they stop eating all sorts of stuff too---that can impact stools additionally.
> 
> My dog did very well on Orijen, But never loved it. Recently I switched him to Pioneers Natural Venison formula. It's grain free and uses sweet potatoes and yams instead of russet potato. A 30 pound bag costs $48.95.
> 
> HE FREAKING LOVES IT.


I will have to check out that food. Yep - he still is in the phase of ingesting everything -lol.



robfromga said:


> We feed Blue Buffalo, Willie and Simone do great with it, Zane can get some loose stools. I add some pumpkin, for a treat every day. They all love the pumpkin and it helps Zane. I'd love to find the magic food that doesn't cost $50 per 30# and they all tolerate.


Do you just add pumpkin puree? Mixed in with their food? I did that for a few days and it did help his stools a bit - just wasnt sure if i could add it in permanently everyday. 



jocoyn said:


> Overfeeding can also cause loose stools. Just an option. With any kibble, I do use supplemental digestive enzymes. Not sure if that is good advice but I find things work better that way. I figure they are not built to digest starches and you can pick your starch with any kibble; they all have it be it potatoes or grains or peas.


I had heard about the overfeeding causing it...he is 5 months old and I feed him about 3.5-4 cups a day plus the small portion of wet food with his dinner. He is fed three times a day, a little over 1 cup at each feeding. He eats all his food within 5 minutes at each meal. He weighs somewhere around 50 pounds, he is lean and in shape, not too skinny, not chubby at all. Does it seem like he is eating too much?? I do supplement with digestive enzymes - started this about 2 weeks ago, but havent noticed much of a change yet. 



doggiedad said:


> you're right, choosing food is no walk in the park.
> it's a pet in the pet store, :laugh:. when feeding pumpkin
> i suggest usuing fresh pumpkin (baked) or in a can
> ( nothing added). maybe there's something in the
> ...


Haha yeah a very long walk in the pet store. I spend more time looking into his food than I do mine! :rofl:




vickip9 said:


> Have you looked into Earthborn Holistic? It's sold at speciality stores and online, and is probably the least expensive of all of the premium brands (Orijen, Acana, Fromm, etc) and still had really good ingredients. I think it's like $40 something for the largets bag.


I just checked out their website. Is their puppy/adult formulas okay for a LBP?? I will have to ask the local feed store if they carry this brand next time I stop in there. Thanks.




Jag said:


> I feel your pain!!! I looked at foods for a week.. like 100 hours put in altogether before settling on Innova. Then a week ago I thought maybe I'd change him to something else. Decided at this point I'm NOT going through that again! Acana was recommended to me from the guy at the store... after Orijen. The increase in protein is just too much with Orijen, IMO. I decided to just stick with the Innova for now and re-think things when he's older and 'working' more. Earthborne I think was a recommended food that wasn't so expensive, too. If they change the formula on Innova, I'm really going to be in a pinch. A lot of foods are made by the same company, so you may want to look into that, too. Food recalls are at the top of my list, because my boy's dad was poisoned by a high end food that was recalled.
> 
> I agree that the wet food (especially since it's a different kind) could be causing the runs.


Acana/Orijen were also recommended to me as well, but they are just ridiculously expensive, and really high in protein. I have put so many hours into researching food for berlin as well! Its ridiculous lol! And yep - food recalls are on top of mine too, thats why I liked the Fromm bc its based out of WI I believe, and hadn't had any problems w/ recalls (to my knowledge). Wow, he was poisoned by a recalled food?! Do you mind me asking what brand?! Thats terrible 



bocron said:


> Find a good food and get the kibble and stick with just one thing for a bit. With adding pouches of this and cans of that, you'll never narrow down where the loose stool is originating. There are quite a few good foods to choose from out there, off the top of my head of the most popular among our clients I'd say TOTW, Orejen, Acana, Nature's Variety Instinct, Evangers and Innova seem to be doing well. We didn't have good luck with TOTW, but many of our clients swear by it. When we run across a client having issues with loose stool we recommend the Nature's Variety Instinct since it has Tapioca in it which is very helpful with irritated digestive systems. Mostly we tell people to pick one and stick with it for a few weeks to allow the dog to totally adjust to it and then make a judgement. If they don't seem to improve after a good try THEN consider changing. Sometimes it's the protein source itself, we have one dog who just can't do beef, when we switched him to a chicken based food he improved in a matter of weeks. So now everyone at our house is on a chicken based food for simplicity.


Thanks. I am going to stop adding the wet food for a while. He was on the Fromm for over 2 months, and I know in the beginning I didn't supplement with wet food right away. But he also was a 10 week old puppy who ate alot of dirt and what not, so maybe if BB and TOTW dont work I will have to try the Fromm again without the wet food. UGH so confusing!  I usually finish the bag of food before I change again, so he has time to adjust to the BB and see if it helps him. I have been trying the change the protein source as well, Fromm was duck, BB is chicken. The wet food pouches were beef. 



Heidigsd said:


> I am not much help when it comes to finding a kibble since I feed a home cooked diet but here is a site that may help:
> 
> http://www.rateitall.com/t-353-dog-food-brands.aspx
> 
> ...


Thanks! That site did help!


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Well, I finally found a food that is reasonably priced ($55 for a 40lb bag) and that Berlin FINALLY can tolerate! Hooray! :happyboogie: And it is grain free and holistic and has probiotics and all that good stuff in there. Downside - there is only one place around me that sells it, luckily they are only about 15 minutes away. This was the fourth food I have tested so thank goodness.


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## GSD13 (Dec 11, 2012)

gsdlover91 said:


> Well, I finally found a food that is reasonably priced ($55 for a 40lb bag) and that Berlin FINALLY can tolerate! Hooray! :happyboogie: And it is grain free and holistic and has probiotics and all that good stuff in there. Downside - there is only one place around me that sells it, luckily they are only about 15 minutes away. This was the fourth food I have tested so thank goodness.


 
Ok, I'll bite... what's the name of the food?


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## Jmm4 (Dec 31, 2012)

GSD13 said:


> Ok, I'll bite... what's the name of the food?


Yes...do tell!


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Haha oops, I thought I put the name in there. Its NutriLife Gold Grain free.


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## jewels04 (Jul 20, 2012)

we have had our Jerry Lee on fish and sweet potato grain free formulas since he was about 5 months old. Only thing he can somewhat tolerate without having watery poop. Currently we are on the costco brand ($32 for a 35 lb bag) but due to feeding Jerry a million pounds a day to get him to thrive properly we're probably going to go back to TOTW or Earthborn Holistic. I am off to the food store today to see if they have the fish formula in either of those foods. They do also have this food you mentioned too so I may take a look at that too while i'm there.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

jewels04 said:


> we have had our Jerry Lee on fish and sweet potato grain free formulas since he was about 5 months old. Only thing he can somewhat tolerate without having watery poop. Currently we are on the costco brand ($32 for a 35 lb bag) but due to feeding Jerry a million pounds a day to get him to thrive properly we're probably going to go back to TOTW or Earthborn Holistic. I am off to the food store today to see if they have the fish formula in either of those foods. They do also have this food you mentioned too so I may take a look at that too while i'm there.


Fish seems to be the best for mine as well, i definitely stay away from beef, i know he is sensitive to it. TOTW wasnt bad, just a bit more pricey, and he seems to be doing well on this new kibble.


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## Laney (Feb 12, 2012)

My 1 year old shepherd was on Blue Buffalo as a puppy. He did fine on it except for the occasional runny stools. When I took him off puppy food I did a TON of research on dog food. He is now on Acana Wild Pratie (Grain Free). He loves it and does great on it. We tried the Acana Pacifica but he would not eat that flavor. I also liked Solid Gold. There ingredients are good and it has a lot f protein for active/working dogs! 
Good luck with your food search. It really is a lot of work.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog (Dec 27, 2009)

In plain simple words, Fromm is theee best of those brand's, with Merrick a very close second. The others I am not a fan of. GSD's, especially puppies get loose stools quite often, to much water, over eating, eating bugs and other stuff puppies eat when we aren't looking. A little canned dog food pumpkin, helps, as long you have had him checked by a vet. Worm's, flea's, and other internal issues can cause bad poo. Sometimes certain dog foods, no matter how good they are, just don't work for some dogs.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

Laney said:


> My 1 year old shepherd was on Blue Buffalo as a puppy. He did fine on it except for the occasional runny stools. When I took him off puppy food I did a TON of research on dog food. He is now on Acana Wild Pratie (Grain Free). He loves it and does great on it. We tried the Acana Pacifica but he would not eat that flavor. I also liked Solid Gold. There ingredients are good and it has a lot f protein for active/working dogs!
> Good luck with your food search. It really is a lot of work.


Thanks! Yeah it is. Glad you found something that works for your pup, I have found something that works as well.



3ToesTonyismydog said:


> In plain simple words, Fromm is theee best of those brand's, with Merrick a very close second. The others I am not a fan of. GSD's, especially puppies get loose stools quite often, to much water, over eating, eating bugs and other stuff puppies eat when we aren't looking. A little canned dog food pumpkin, helps, as long you have had him checked by a vet. Worm's, flea's, and other internal issues can cause bad poo. Sometimes certain dog foods, no matter how good they are, just don't work for some dogs.


Fromm is my favorite too, but his stomach wasn't agreeing with the LBP Fromm Gold. I have him on NutriLife Gold Grain free fish and he is doing well. I may switch him back to Fromm at some point later, (a different type of Fromm) but as for now, this works well! He has no parasites etc, I use pumpkin and it does work well.


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