# Horrific Behavior Stories? I Need Company!



## emcale (Jul 9, 2017)

I wanted to share this story that happened with my 5-year-old niece and my male GSD, Mac. And I'm wondering if anyone has their own horrific behavior stories to make me feel better 

Mac and Tasha are our male and female GSD, 9.5 months old, neutered and spayed. We visited my sister recently who has two children, 5 and 3 years old. I was very nervous about taking Mac and Tasha since they have not been exposed to children at all, and this was also a new environment (this was at an Air BnB house).

I got to the house and took Mac and Tasha outside to play some ball before going inside. They were off-leash. My 5-year-old niece came outside and started doing what kids do... laughing, running, wanting to play fetch with the dogs. When she came outside and started running toward them, Mac barked like crazy at her. I wouldn't say he lunged at her but definitely had a defensive stance. Of course, my niece was scared but bless her heart, she just stood there and looked at him while he barked. That went on for a couple of seconds before I got to Mac to hold his collar and give him a command so I could treat him. He quieted down but was still staring at my niece. My niece was able to throw the ball with Tasha for a few minutes while I sat with Mac. He still barked at her if she laughed loud or ran or walked toward him.

However, there was a moment inside that has scarred me for life, and probably my niece as well. We had Mac and Tasha on-leash inside, walking them around, letting them sniff. The nieces were sitting on their dad's lap. Then the 5-year-old got brave and wanted to walk towards the dogs to pet them. I thought it was OK since Mac, in particular, was calm. However, when the 5-year-old walked toward him (very slowly, on her tip-toes. Being silly...), I guess he got scared or defensive and started barking again. My niece got scared and ran away. Well, that did it. Mac charged after her barking, the leash slipped out of my hands. I couldn't get to him in time before he got her in the butt. I wouldn't say a bite, but his mouth was open and his teeth definitely nipped her butt. She screamed in pain (she's a little dramatic), and her dad took her upstairs to see the damage. I was mortified. I went in a bedroom with him and shut the door and started crying myself  

There was a small place on her butt that was bruised and there was a couple of teeth marks. Some blood, but not a lot. Her dad put some Neosporin on it, and she was fine physically. No lasting damage... physically. Dad was very understanding and said that it was the child's fault for not knowing how to be around dogs. But I knew it was really my fault for not maintaining control of the situation. It wasn't the child's fault. 

Anyway, I'm so worried I have scarred her for life with dogs. I couldn't even look at my sister or my nieces the rest of the day, and we went home early without saying goodbye. I did write my sister a note saying how sorry I was and if there's anything I can do to make it right, just let me know. My sister and her husband were, of course, very understanding and kept saying it was no big deal, it wasn't my fault and that I didn't have to leave. But I just felt like I couldn't be there anymore after what happened. I cried all the way home and couldn't stop replaying the event in my mind.

Anybody else have something horrific happen? I'm sure mine is mild compared to others, but this even has just really upset me.


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## RebelsMa (Feb 13, 2018)

At 10mths my dog nipped at the trainers butt once in our puppy intro to agility class when he was walking away, I was mortified!!! 
He explained it was fear based biting (his words lol) and we worked on building up her confidence, being around people without reaction (warms up when people ignore her) and impulse control (no chasing)
She also got excited by running children and teaching her place has really put an end to that 
I'm glad the parents were understanding  Hang in there I know how you feel <3


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Some dogs just are NOT good with kids. Had a rescue who nipped several them - once was richly deserved - little brat deliberately stepped on her tail!

Part of it was prey drive. You could see it kicking in when the kids were doing a race at a birthday party: their high-pitched screams and laughter combined with the quick movement was definitely triggering her. But she also nipped a young girl on the face for hugging her. It was just a scratch, as happened with your boy, but we were extremely careful with her when children were around, and would usually make sure she was safely locked away. With older children, we would warn them not to go near her. The girl she nipped on the face was our neighbour's daughter, and she had been warned and understood the risk. As she got older, she and Tasha became good friends, and when she died, she and her brother and mother helped me bury her.

Never had a serious incident in the 14 years she was alive, though she did bite a guy delivering flyers to our home one morning. Fortunately, he had a leather jacket on, so all he suffered was a bad scare, and maybe a bruise from the teeth, and more bruises from tripping and falling over a planter when he tried to get away from her. Fortunately, he understood she was protecting our property, and never reported her. 

It's upsetting, I know. But they are meant to be guard dogs, and be suspicious of things that are new and strange to them. Maybe your male will be okay with repeated exposure to children, maybe not. You could try desensitizing him, using older kids, who will understand and listen to your instructions. I t's also perfectly understandable if you don't want to take that risk.

Be thankful it wasn't worse. Now you know the risks, and can take steps to prevent another incident.

We don't know what goes on in their brains that triggers this. It could be weak nerves, combined with prey drive. It could be just over the top defensiveness/suspicion that is part of the breed. It could get better as he gets older and the kids get bigger. I grew up with my relative's farm dogs. They were MEANT to be guardians of the property, and I was made aware by my parents that some of them weren't to be touched or played with. Although I was small, my parents made sure I understood and listened.

Live with it. Learn his triggers, try to figure out why he does it, and how you can defuse it. It ain't the end of the world, but don't let your guard down, either. Kids should never be allowed to play with dogs unsupervised.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I would be mortified as well.

I took kona camping and she would not stop barking at the people I was camping with. She would only bark if they like walked to go get something and then we’re walking around, then two seconds later be sitting at there feet getting pets lol. Also kona herds children sometimes at the beach, she gets over excited with kids. She used to be terrified of them and extremely scared.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Seems like first of all you came out treated him for barking at your neice.


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm sorry about the incident happening. I hope that the girl's parents won't make much of a fuss over it with her. I think that if they treat it like the non-big deal it is, she'll get over it. I _really_ hope that they'll teach her (or maybe you'll teach her, if possible) how to behave around dogs that they don't know well. That'd be valuable.

When I was 5 I was bitten by our family's Great Dane. It was a nip on the scalp that drew some blood and of course I was terrified that I was going to bleed out and die. My dad stopped my bleeding and soon got tired of reassuring me that I was going to be fine.  I slowly figured out that the dog did not like it when I was resting with my head on her pregnant belly. It was uncomfortable for her and I didn't heed her warning growls. So I got nipped. 

I got over that well enough to be bitten by another Great Dane when I was about 12. I was at a friend's house. Their dog came out and I was petting him, then decided I'd "dance" with him by lifting his front paws off the ground, and well... he didn't like that. He bit me under the left arm, near my armpit. I had broken skin and bruising. And I didn't complain about it. It was my fault. Maybe that dog had arthritis. Maybe he was scared. I took liberties and he didn't bite savagely, just enough to make me let go.

So if this incident results in kids being more careful around dogs, more aware that dogs have feelings and drives and habits of their own, it could be made into a good thing and maybe help avert future tragedies, such as trips to the ER or dogs euthanized.

Figuring out how to turn it into a positive thing is the best medicine, IMO.


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

Keep away from kids and work on building confidence. They are at an age where there is a lot of mental development going on and prior training seems to go out the window at unexpected moments. If the pups are never around kids, it can be quite an experience with all of the yelling, running, different sounds and abundance of energy. Couple that with a new environment and the "teenage brat"phase, it can be a recipe for disaster.


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## Erica0629 (Dec 21, 2016)

You are not alone! My girl who is 1 isn’t the biggest fan of kids, I honestly didn’t know anyone with kids who could help her get used to them. Nobody else in my family has kids and my son was 8 so she didn’t get to be around younger kids. Fast forward to now, I take her on daily walks at our beach on the levy. It’s an off-leash beach but I walk her on leash and she does really good. She sees kids with their families and walking also and it has helped her to ignore them for the most part. I can tell smaller kids who have jerky movement and run toward her make her nervous. 

However there have been 2 occasions where she did give a slight reaction. The first was when a family with small kids was walking behind us, the little girl ran too far ahead of her parents and was running up on my dog Mila from behind. Mila turned around got startled and started barking like a warning not the aggressive sounding bark, I looked behind us and the girl stopped in her tracks. Thankfully the parents then paid attention to how far ahead she was, I told Mila to stop barking and we continued the walk. Mila went back to being normal it just startled her. 

The second time we were walking and a little kid maybe 3 or 4 on a tricycle started riding it towards her. He was getting a little closer than she liked and she made a low growl. I once again stopped her and continued on the walk and she let it go. I try not to make too big a deal of it I correct her and we keep moving. Bottom line my girl isn’t that big of a kid fan but it hasn’t stopped us from going out and walking where kids can be also. With some work, we’ve only had 2 incidents and she’s a little over a year old now. Don’t beat yourself up too much we all have those moments we regret. It’s very fortunate that your niece’s parents were understanding and didn’t put any blame on you. You are not a bad aunt I promise! Your niece is young and you have plenty of time to make all kinds of better memories with her! I hope you’re feeling better about this


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## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

When is the "teenage brat" phase?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

If you look back I think there was warning of your dogs not being comfortable with strangers. If I were you I would hire a trainer and start working on it. Not with kids but other stuff

I have a friend who has an extremely fearful dog she adopted out of rescue. He did a similar bite to one of her grand kids. She basically said he is what he is and built him a very sturdy kennel where he goes when the kids are around, and he will never be around kids again. If I had a dog as fearful as hers I would do the same.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

BigHemi45 said:


> Keep away from kids and work on building confidence. They are at an age where there is a lot of mental development going on and prior training seems to go out the window at unexpected moments. If the pups are never around kids, it can be quite an experience with all of the yelling, running, different sounds and abundance of energy. Couple that with a new environment and the "teenage brat phase, it can be a recipe for disaster.


I'm interested to know how long the a-hole phase lasts? My last pup was 13 years ago and was female and I don't recall her having this phase. My 7 mo male has been having some "teenage brat" moments lately....just wondering how long I have to look forward to that lasting :smile2:


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Seems like first of all you came out treated him for barking at your neice.


How? She changed it up, gave him a command, he did as expected, and reward. It wasn't treating the barking. 

Op, work on exposure to kids. Use distance. Work on engagement. Get him focused on you and ignoring stimulation. 
I'd find a balanced trainer, that can truly give an opinion of what's going on. 

We've all had overwhelming moments with our dogs.


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## emcale (Jul 9, 2017)

Thank you so much, everybody, for the encouragement and your stories! It's nice to know I'm not alone and everyone has had some overwhelming moments with their dogs, like @cloudpump mentioned. I just recently talked with my sister and she said just the other day her 5-year-old was playing "puppies" and pretending to be Tasha (our female), who got along with her much better  She was doing similar mannerisms like Tasha has. I thought that was cute and it made my day to hear her say that. So thankfully my female, hopefully, saved the experience LOL.
@Nurse Bishop - @cloudpump I think is correct. I wasn't rewarding the barking, I don't believe. I got him to pay attention to me, and I think at the time I asked him to sit and look at me, then treated. I was trying to distract him.

I'd like to get a trainer. Not sure if that's in the cards right now, but I'm definitely open to the suggestion. I think now I'll just keep them away from kids since we really don't have a place we can go with a lot of them around. My husband and I want to have our own kids one day, so I hope we can desensitize them then and teach our little ones how to act around them.

Thank you, again, for sharing your stories! It's really made me feel better.


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## emcale (Jul 9, 2017)

> He explained it was fear based biting (his words lol) and we worked on building up her confidence, being around people without reaction (warms up when people ignore her) and impulse control (no chasing)


 @RebelsMa - I have a dumb question LOL. What is fear based biting? Like, when they bite when they know the person isn't looking...? Sorry if that's a dumb question.


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## Armistice (Oct 12, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> When is the "teenage brat"phase?


About 5mos is when it starts. Teenager phase...


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

The second your dog nips or bites ANY kid is on you, not your dog. Unlike many here, I have zero tolerance for this. Good thing it was your sister's kid, because I will tell you, if it were mine you wouldn't be still living with your dog, he'd be impounded pending euthanasia! 

Manage your dog. If he/she doesn't react well with children it's okay. But as a responsible dog owner you have an obligation to not react afterward, you have an obligation to PREVENT this from ever happening in the first place!

I am appalled at the number of people sharing similar experiences! Folks, the onus is on you! When you have a dog as large as a GSD, you don't and can't wait until after the fact...manage your dog so that it doesn't ever happen in the first place!


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Tim, a lot depends on the severity of the bite. When my dog did it it was never more than a slight graze/red mark on the skin, and maybe a drop or two of blood. I asked a trainer about it, and she said, "Your dog is disciplining the kids, the way she'd do with a pup. Otherwise, you'd be talking a trip to the E.R. and major stitches, if she REALLY meant to do damage."

Of course, we did make every effort to keep her away from children too young to understand that she might bite, and supervised VERY carefully when she was around older children. Rule # 1 was never, ever put your face close to hers or hug her. That's one of the most frequent triggers for dog bites.

In the world in which I grew up, kids weren't wrapped in bubble wrap. We were told if a particular dog was 'mean' and we were expected to stay away from it. Dogs had rights, too, and if we did get bitten the first question was "What did you do to provoke it? Did you bother it while it was eating? Did you rub its fur the wrong way? Pull its tail?" Nips, snaps and growls were shrugged off, and we learned to heed them and leave the dog alone. After all, WE were the guests in the dog's home. But a serious bite likely would have earned the dog a trip out behind the barn, and a bullet through the head.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

My gal-dog still barks at people, a "hey I see you" kind of bark. It is not consistent and I haven't yet figure out which situations call for a bark and which don't. All people are kept at an arms length, except for family that she knows. We were able to take our dogs to my daughter's home and it worked out well, but there weren't any children involved. 

To cut down with the barking I used to treat my gal-dog after she stopped barking and looked up at me. But that was actually making it worse! My trainer noticed it...thank God for people watching from the outside and from a different point of view. It seems that my dog had chained the behaviors together..."see the stranger - give a warning bark - look at "mom" - go the heel - get a treat". To change that I had to only reward passing a stranger with no warning bark. Barking got a No-reward-marker and no treat, even if she heeled. 

My gal-dog does much better if she knows her role to play. If we go man-trailing she is learning that her response to finding people is to sit, with only one bark allowed. If she has to make up her own mind, she doesn't always chose what I'd have her chose. My task is to figure out how I want her to respond and practice that so that it becomes habit. Habit and tradition are very powerful.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Edited several posts to remove pseudo swearing.Reminder that it's a rule violation.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

dogma13 said:


> Edited several posts to remove pseudo swearing.Reminder that it's a rule violation.


Sorry! Will know for future. You edited my last one and fixed it in the quote but not my reply, it's not letting me edit so letting you know to double check it :grin2:


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

JaxsMom said:


> Sorry! Will know for future. You edited my last one and fixed it in the quote but not my reply, it's not letting me edit so letting you know to double check it :grin2:


Oops!Thank you:blush:


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Sunsilver said:


> Tim, a lot depends on the severity of the bite. When my dog did it it was never more than a slight graze/red mark on the skin, and maybe a drop or two of blood. I asked a trainer about it, and she said, "Your dog is disciplining the kids, the way she'd do with a pup. Otherwise, you'd be talking a trip to the E.R. and major stitches, if she REALLY meant to do damage."
> 
> Of course, we did make every effort to keep her away from children too young to understand that she might bite, and supervised VERY carefully when she was around older children. Rule # 1 was never, ever put your face close to hers or hug her. That's one of the most frequent triggers for dog bites.
> 
> In the world in which I grew up, kids weren't wrapped in bubble wrap. We were told if a particular dog was 'mean' and we were expected to stay away from it. Dogs had rights, too, and if we did get bitten the first question was "What did you do to provoke it? Did you bother it while it was eating? Did you rub its fur the wrong way? Pull its tail?" Nips, snaps and growls were shrugged off, and we learned to heed them and leave the dog alone. After all, WE were the guests in the dog's home. But a serious bite likely would have earned the dog a trip out behind the barn, and a bullet through the head.


I grew up in that same world, and had more than my fair share of nips/bites growing up, so I get that. And the truth is, I would not make a huge deal out of a little nip like the OP described. But there are many people who would, so I was trying to make that point! But if your dog has never been around cats, for example, would you have your dog's off leash in the yard and just have the cat go out and "play" with them? Why not?

Lots of dogs get overly excited around kids the first few times they see them. It falls to the owner to control the environment and introduce them slowly and carefully so that "accidents" don't happen. 

OP, I am sorry if I offended you making this point. It sounds to me like you were being pretty careful in the house with the dogs, having them leashed. I'm glad your niece wasn't hurt too badly!


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

cloudpump said:


> How? She changed it up, gave him a command, he did as expected, and reward. It wasn't treating the barking.
> 
> Op, work on exposure to kids. Use distance. Work on engagement. Get him focused on you and ignoring stimulation.
> I'd find a balanced trainer, that can truly give an opinion of what's going on.
> ...


The way she wrote it, it sounded like she came running out gave a command then treated. The dog might have thought Oh I just got treated for barking at a child.

I solve this possibility by not having Inga around little children ever. Once, when she was about the age of the OPs dog she lunged at some little children on a hiking trail and had a come to jesus moment. She was not raised with kids, there are no children around here. She has been to big box stores at Christmas especially when a bunch of little kids are in there running and screaming. I had her watching them from a distance and downing, relaxing. Kids (and their parents) asked to pet her but I politely said not right now, she is in training. One time at a pet store a toddler came charging out of nowhere shouting I hug doggie! inches from her and closing fast. I got between Inga and the child so fast it was like lighting. Its not like the old days and these kids are not my family. There is just too much to loose with lawsuits and bite historys, etc. No need to habituate her to children, shes not around children. She likes people, she would probably be alright if a child petted her but I just don't want to risk it. Not saying this is for everyone but shes my dog and thats how I deal with the situation.


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## emcale (Jul 9, 2017)

Thank you, @dogma13. I apologize. I was just trying to understand what it was that the poster meant. The editing helped  
@tim_s_adams - I totally agree it's on the owner. That's why I was mortified and cried all the way home. I knew it was on me. I know now to just not have Mac around children, or maybe have someone with me to help manage him to help expose him. 

I would love the opportunity to take him around kids, maybe have somebody really experienced help me with it. Anybody here live in the Dallas area who wants to help me one day?  Half-way kidding, but it would be nice to have someone knowledgeable help LOL

Thank you, everybody!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Nothing like that. Sorry. I think the first problem was taking TWO large, unsocialized dogs to a place where there are multiple children. 

Sometimes our own nervousness/fear can increase how reactive the dog is. 

I think your male is should be kept out of the reach of children. I am sorry, not everyone would keep a dog that would bite a little one like that. Not everyone can. Shelters won't adopt them out. Rescues won't touch them. And while 9.5 months is a puppy, it is also old enough to be registered as a bite. Blood and bruising is a significant bite, not a nip. 

Having two 9.5 month old puppies at the same time could contribute to this, in that puppies are a lot of work and 2 puppies are more than double the work, as you have to train them separately and together, socialize them separately and together. It is just a lot more than 2x1 puppy. 

If you choose to keep your dog, than you have to keep him safe from what he might do to children first. Which of course means keeping children safe from him. If you have any question, us a muzzle in public. Leave him at home when you go to family events. It's hard to borrow little ones to desensitize your dog to. 

Lots of training, more management. Basket muzzle. If you are going to keep him. Any further problems on this dog's part, well there are no excuses, because now you know, your dog WILL bite, even a small child. If I had the dog, and was not going to euthanize, I would rehome the bitch puppy, put a kennel in the basement, and a lock on the basement door. When I had company, the dog would be in its kennel. 

I am sorry you are having this kind of trouble. My brother's dog a beagle/dacshund mix, bit his own kid a couple of times and last year or so, bit my sister's kid in the ear. She was about 5, maybe just under. I came over and my sister said, "he's going to be so happy when I put her to bed." I said, "Why?" She said, because she (Gwennie the four year old), won't leave him alone. I walked right into the living room and asked (not secretly) "Didn't he bite Michael twice?" She claimed only the once. 

But I thought I had did my duty. Both the mother of the child and the owner of the dog, both are aware that the dog bites. 

Didn't matter. The next morning the dog bit the kid in the ear. The father blames the kid. I blame both the mother (my sister) and the owner (my sister in law). The dog is what it is, an elderly dog that doesn't do well with children. The kid has been taught to be afraid of dogs if anything, and has been taught to ignore her parents and other adults. That is on the parents. Sorry. Parents ought to understand long-term consequences. And, they would NEVER be so understanding if one of my GSDs bit their kid. 

You are not alone, but as a whole everyone who loves this breed needs to be less tolerant of behavior like this.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

emcale, your dog is fine. It was the scenario that led to the bite. You should not take this to mean that your dog is a problem with kids, and in fact, I would strongly recommend against that! Give your dog a chance to get used to kids...of course while on leash and under control, and see how it goes. Don't condemn the poor dog for one little nip/bite. Give him a chance to see, but not interact, with little kids, and see what his reaction is. It sounds likely to me that he'll be fine once he has a chance to understand. Kids, like cats, trigger a young dog's prey drive. They make all these squeaky noises and have fast movements and frankly act quite weird at times. Let the dog see them, and let him know that it's not okay to react like he would with a rabbit! Most dogs get the point very quickly. Most dogs can be taught quickly that kids are off limits. I think your dog seems like he'll respond to that teaching well... Just don't take it for granted, teach the dog!
Until he knows though, don't set him up for failure. Keep him leashed always when kids are present, and let him know what is, and is not, acceptable behavior where kids are concerned! 

99% of dogs can learn this, and will be fine around kids once they do. Best of luck to you and your pup!


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## andywhite (Dec 18, 2017)

This is basically what happens when Americans meet rest of the world. Americans are calling for euthanasia at the first grow, since their entire world has to be family friendly. If kids gets bitten over there it goes into news and dogs go down. If kid in the rest of the world gets bitten it better not cry, because father could add some extra slaps for not knowing better how to act around dogs. 

I've got also bitten as a kid and I have small scar on my hand to this day. I can imagine that my moms only reaction was "well, he was growling, what did you except that will happen if you grab him by collar and drag him? And don't you dare bleed on the carpet!".


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

OP you don't need willing volunteers to socialize your young dog to children.
I would double collar him a prong and a flat collar. Put the leash on both. Next make sure you DO NOT DROP THE LEASH. Go to a park, youth league baseball diamond basically anywhere there is a bunch of kids running around being kids and just sit and watch. Their will be kids who wish to pet the dog. Tell them no that you are training. Eventually when he learns to sit and be neutral you can introduce some of the older kids to petting him. Make him sit while petted and make it brief. This will help desensitize the dog to the actions of children and will also be good one on one time with the dogs and you. I would do this with both dogs separately. My trainer really pushed on me when I got another dog while mine was young that both dogs need to have "only one dog in the family experiences".


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> OP you don't need willing volunteers to socialize your young dog to children.
> I would double collar him a prong and a flat collar. Put the leash on both. Next make sure you DO NOT DROP THE LEASH. Go to a park, youth league baseball diamond basically anywhere there is a bunch of kids running around being kids and just sit and watch. Their will be kids who wish to pet the dog. Tell them no that you are training. Eventually when he learns to sit and be neutral you can introduce some of the older kids to petting him. Make him sit while petted and make it brief. This will help desensitize the dog to the actions of children and will also be good one on one time with the dogs and you. I would do this with both dogs separately. My trainer really pushed on me when I got another dog while mine was young that both dogs need to have "only one dog in the family experiences".


this absolutely. Only I no longer ever invite a child to meet my gal-dog. Kids get nervous and it makes her react. Just best to teach my dog that if she is near my leg, she doesn't have to be concerned that the child (or anyone else other than a vet) will try and touch her. So she stays near me and just watches. We do this with out my big-boy around. Part of my problem with her may be that she took so many cues off of our older dog that she hadn't developed the skills of reading strangers for herself. We are playing catch-up with that now.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Well, I'm gonna be a party pooper and just remind everybody that the dog was on a leash when this happened and yanked the leash out of the owner's hands. If it can happen once, it can happen again. I think taking this dog anywhere around kids with this same owner and leash is an accident or an incident waiting to happen.

OP, I think you should hire a trainer, start getting control of your dog in less high stakes situations than a park full of kids, and go from there, preferably with the help and supervision of the trainer.

Can anybody recommend a decent trainer in the Dallas area for OP?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Selzer said: " I think the first problem was taking TWO large, unsocialized dogs to a place where there are multiple children. 

Sometimes our own nervousness/fear can increase how reactive the dog is. 

I think your male is should be kept out of the reach of children."

I agree


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## emcale (Jul 9, 2017)

@selzer - I appreciate your input. Believe me, I have begged my husband to re-home one or both of the puppies because they have definitely been a lot of work together. But we have them for good, both of them. I would have liked it differently, but that is what we have decided. Yes, I completely agree that I now know Mac will bite, and I promise I will and am being very careful with his exposure to children. Thank you for sharing your story.
@tim_s_adams - Thank you for your encouragement! I am sort of leaning toward your camp that says the dogs can be trained how to behave around children. So I’d like to try and not just give up, but I definitely need help, which I’m trying to get soon. Thank you!
@cdwoodcox -


> Go to a park, youth league baseball diamond basically anywhere there is a bunch of kids running around being kids and just sit and watch. Their will be kids who wish to pet the dog. Tell them no that you are training.


Great suggestion, I’d like to try this with a helper/trainer/friend who knows the breed. I like your “DON’T DROP THE LEASH” comment  That’s why I want someone with me to possibly help me hold the leash, maybe even have two leashes, like you mentioned.
@Thecowboysgirl - Yes, I agree. If it can happen once, it can certainly happen again. That’s why I’d like to try to get him used to children, but definitely with someone to help me hold the leash. Possibly attach two leashes to him and we each hold one. I like the suggestion of less “high stakes” situation. Do you have a suggestion of what this would be? Like maybe some friends' kids in our home or something like that?


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## emcale (Jul 9, 2017)

I do want to reassure everyone that despite how maybe my original post was written, I do take this situation very seriously, and not just a shrug off as "this is what puppies do" type thing. I did want to be reassured that maybe others have had something serious like this happen to them, which I've received graciously by others telling their stories. But I also understand that this was serious and I need to put work into Mac to help him with this.

Just wanted to put that out there. Thank you!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

emcale said:


> @selzer - I appreciate your input. Believe me, I have begged my husband to re-home one or both of the puppies because they have definitely been a lot of work together. But we have them for good, both of them. I would have liked it differently, but that is what we have decided. Yes, I completely agree that I now know Mac will bite, and I promise I will and am being very careful with his exposure to children. Thank you for sharing your story.
> 
> @tim_s_adams - Thank you for your encouragement! I am sort of leaning toward your camp that says the dogs can be trained how to behave around children. So I’d like to try and not just give up, but I definitely need help, which I’m trying to get soon. Thank you!
> 
> ...


No, not kids in your home. I absolutely don't think kids or e collars are a good idea period without a decent trainer involved.

You mentioned in previous posts the dogs barking as people approach...I can't remember the exact wording. I was thinking you need some solid obedience and control, in the presence of regular every day life distractions working up to strangers who are adults. 

There are two options---have no physical or verbal control of a dog who conducts itself well just because that's who it is. A dog who likes people and isn't a crash and bash. This type of dog can get by with no control because it isn't doing anything to cause a problem.

You don't have control of your dogs and one bit a kid. Therefore, you must get control of the dogs. Having the dogs around kids again is end game. Just having the dogs around kids again right now isn't going to help--- the control and obedience has to be there so that you can make the dog conduct itself in a different way. If you just bring kids over around your dogs as the next step your dog will just continue to be freaked out and out of control--maybe being restrained by you.

Among many other things the dog has got to see you controlling the environment so it doesn't feel it has to. If a kid is approaching my dog and he feels weird, I'm Johnny on the spot---stop that kid in its tracks, get between kid and dog, shut it down, and the dog sees it, so he doesn't think he has to take matters into his own hands.

I really really think you should spend your money on a trainer and not an e collar.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I agree with getting a trainer.

Teach the dog very strong obedience and also a very strong place command. Place is wonderful for dogs that don’t know what to do with themselves. They need YOU to be their leader and show them how you want them to behave. Does your husband help with training ?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

emcale said:


> @cdwoodcox -
> 
> 
> > Go to a park, youth league baseball diamond basically anywhere there is a bunch of kids running around being kids and just sit and watch. Their will be kids who wish to pet the dog. Tell them no that you are training.
> ...


 I would put the same leash on both collars. With a loop in your end so you could loop it around your hand. If you don't have one already go buy a 6 foot leather leash.
And let's get something right here. Your dog is still a puppy. He isn't a stone cold killer. I'll bet that kids and all their noise and movents amp him up and he tries to play. How does him and his sister play. With barking and teeth. He is just doing what he knows. Take him to the ball park, or other parks and just sit. If you sit and he won't be still and wants to act crazy that is what the prong collar is for. But set him up to succeed. Start off with just him and yourself in a place with no kids. Work on his obedience in low stimulation environments first before you go to the kid park. When you do make it to the kid park sit way off at first. As he shows he can be trusted move in a little closer. Then a little closer. This will build both his and your confidence. Cause if emotionally you are a nervous wreck when the kids are in close proximity he will pick up on that and he will be also. 
Having a sound German Shepherd is part Genetics and a lot of work on us as owners. You have two very young dogs. You have to be willing to put in a lot of time. But if you're willing the payoff of having two stable well behaved dogs is 100% worth it.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

These puppies are a little younger than yours but the same concept. Watch this guy's videos. Use what you learn. Work each dog independently. When your done working put them in a crate and get the other one out and work it. Putting them into a crate after training helps them to process what they just learned. If they aren't crate trained. Crate training them.
https://youtu.be/kEZx2X46L7s


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