# could it be a belgian



## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

could my puppy be a belgian not a german take notice that the belgian got white chest and black chin i have been told by you that my puppy is sable gsd
here are the pics : 











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Image uploading. Refresh page to view










thx  i provide clearer pics tmrw as its midnight here


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## Bikecafe (Jun 11, 2011)

Looks like a sable GSD pup to me. Where did you get the pup? Did you have an opportunity to see pics of or meet the parents?


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

As i mentioned in another post i got her from a bad breeder in order to rescue her she was 6 wks when i got her shes now 3 mnths  and no i dont have papers or met the parents but i did the vaccinations and the vet said its too early to know if shes a mix


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she looks sable colored to me, Belgian Shepherds are all black and normally finer boned..

She's a real cutie by the way


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

JakodaCD OA said:


> she looks sable colored to me, Belgian Shepherds are all black and normally finer boned..
> 
> She's a real cutie by the way


That depends, the Groenendael is solid black and also long haired. Malinois are a sort of sable though.

Looks GSD to me though.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Malinois's can be all black as well. I had to look that up a few weeks ago but seems some litters will produce black's.

That puppy looks like a sable GSD to me.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Yeah, looks too chunky to be a Belgian. Very cute, though.

malinois puppy photos - Google Search

On the Black Malinois, there are a couple of breeders that intentionally breed these. I heard that one of the breeder's dogs are very aggressive, even towards their owners. You will not get a black Malinois on accident in a litter because of the recessive gene.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Carole - as I was typing my response I was thinking you should reply on this thread! lol


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Yeah I agree, not a malinois. Belgian shepherds is the broader term which has 4 groups amongst it, including the malinois which is of course typically fawn with a black mask although I, too, recently learned they "come" in black as well.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Rerun said:


> Yeah I agree, not a malinois. Belgian shepherds is the broader term which has 4 groups amongst it, including the malinois which is of course typically fawn with a black mask although I, too, recently learned they "come" in black as well.


"Black Malinois" are not really malinois. They are Belgian Shepherds. As stated above there are four different varieties of Belgians. And each variety means a different color and coat type. 

short coat brown sable=Malinois
long coat black=Groenendael
short wire coat brown sable= Lakenois
Long coat brown sable= Tervuren

These are the only recognized varieties. All other combinations are simply called what they look like. So a short coat black is called a short coat black Belgian. A long coat wire sable is called a long coat wire sable Belgian.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

The puppy in question looks a lot like a Tervuren puppy. 










That means that it's parents could be either Malinois or Tervuren. The long coat gene is a simple recessive, just like in the GSD.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Looks Tervuren because of being sable, the puppy doesn't look like a long coat to me at all. Malinois come in sable as well, so if you're going off the coloring alone you could say that. But the bone structure doesn't appear Malinois (or Tervuren).


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## AddieGirl (May 10, 2011)

Fast said:


> "Black Malinois" are not really malinois. They are Belgian Shepherds. As stated above there are four different varieties of Belgians. And each variety means a different color and coat type.
> 
> short coat brown sable=Malinois
> long coat black=Groenendael
> ...


Thank you for explaining that! I never understood the difference as it seems that some people use the different Belgian names interchangeably.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Looks like a cute sable GSD to me. As for the white spot on the chest and chin, that is also in GSDs as well. My boy, Tanner, has a white spot on his chest and has white on his chin, but is all GSD. My dad thought he was a Belgian until recently.


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## ricemark9 (Aug 2, 2011)

I too have a sable dog whose origins are unknown. She needed a good home so I took her in, but I have no idea if she is a GSD, Malinois, or mix. She has characteristics of both, but more closely resembles a GSD in my opinion. However, I'm no expert so I bought one of those DNA kits that has both breeds in their database so hopefully it will shed some light. I will share the results in about 3 weeks.

I'm also including pictures from her puppy days up until current that you can compare your dog to. She turned 1 year the other week. 

Originally I tried to identifier by physical characteristics, but none of her characteristics are isolated to one breed. She stands 24" at the withers, is 24-25" long from breastbone to butt, and weighs 60lbs. She probably has a little filling out to do so she'll probably peak at 65ish. These dimensions seem more indicative of a GSD, but it really doesn't eliminate BM. She is slim, but muscular, not stocky, and has a straight back. This is more indicative of a BM, but not outside the GSD realm. Her coat appears to be more GSD-like but I've seen pics of BMs with similar coats. I really hope the dna test will settle this.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Looks GSD to me, I don't see any Belgian. 

As far as the DNA tests... Those are not conclusive at all. They're really more of a fun thing, not to be taken seriously. Many people with purebred dogs have done the DNA tests for fun, and had bizarre breeds come back that are absolutely not in the history of the dog. They've been discussed a lot on the forum if you want to search around for old threads.


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## ricemark9 (Aug 2, 2011)

*thank you*

I believe she is a GSD as well, but a few people who have seen here in person said she is a BM. I'm by no means an expert and this is my first GSD dog so I'm inexperienced as well.

The dna test is just for curiosity. She's a great dog regardless.

Thanks for the reply and suggestion. I'm checking out the dna threads.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I don't see a reason to suspect she's not a GSD, if that is what she was sold to you as. She doesn't strike me as being very Belgain-y looking. I agree the DNA tests are a waste of money.

FWIW there are black Mals (short haired black Belgians) and that is what people in the Belgian community call them. It's a disqualifying fault per the breed standard though.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Depends on the DNA test. The $40 cheek swab tests are pretty unreliable, the $100(around here) blood test is much more accurate, large database of breeds compared to the cheapo tests.

Annette


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Neither of the dogs in question look like belgian shepherds to me. The OP's puppy does not look like a Turveren--way too broad for that. Both look like gsds but you never know...

My dog is a either a pb malinois or a gsd x malinois but I have not DNAd him b/c I've been told both tests are very unreliable.


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## FORRUGER (Jan 3, 2006)

Below is a picture of a friends' pb Turv pup. Size would be a definate clue...Turvs are quite a bit smaller than GSDs and smaller in bonel.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

ricemark9 said:


> I too have a sable dog whose origins are unknown. She needed a good home so I took her in, but I have no idea if she is a GSD, Malinois, or mix. She has characteristics of both, but more closely resembles a GSD in my opinion. However, I'm no expert so I bought one of those DNA kits that has both breeds in their database so hopefully it will shed some light. I will share the results in about 3 weeks.
> 
> I'm also including pictures from her puppy days up until current that you can compare your dog to. She turned 1 year the other week.
> 
> Originally I tried to identifier by physical characteristics, but none of her characteristics are isolated to one breed. She stands 24" at the withers, is 24-25" long from breastbone to butt, and weighs 60lbs. She probably has a little filling out to do so she'll probably peak at 65ish. These dimensions seem more indicative of a GSD, but it really doesn't eliminate BM. She is slim, but muscular, not stocky, and has a straight back. This is more indicative of a BM, but not outside the GSD realm. Her coat appears to be more GSD-like but I've seen pics of BMs with similar coats. I really hope the dna test will settle this.


Also agree, I see no Malinois in that GSD at all.


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## FORRUGER (Jan 3, 2006)

yup, agree 100%... all I see is GSD in every way, especially the bone structure.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I will go against the tide and say the OP's pup is Tervuren or a mix. The head is small, wide and short. If the pup is 3 months it appears too small to be a GSD. I don't mind being wrong, that's just my inexpert opinion. A friend of mine bred Tervurens and it looks more like them than GSD pups at that age. Here is Abby at 3 months.


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## ricemark9 (Aug 2, 2011)

How hard or accurate is it to identify the breed of a young puppy without seeing the parents or papers? I'm not a vet, breeder, or someone who has a lot of experience in these matters so I really don't know. All I could accurately say is that the puppy is a cute, fluffy fur ball.

Can you positively, for sure identify a young Yellow Lab puppy as a Lab and not mistake it for a Golden Retriever just by looking at them? What about Chocolate Labs and Chesapeake Bay Retrievers or Brittany and Springer Spaniels? I feel like you either need to wait for some growth and differentiation or have an expert take a thorough look. Just look at how much physical characteristics like the snout, head, overall body shape, proportion, coat length, consistency and color, teeth, ears, etc. vary as they mature. Also, being that the puppy came from bad home and was malnourished, will this affect the size and rate of growth?

Like your puppy, mine was a little fur ball when I first got her. Both the vet and I weren't sure if she was a BM, GSD, or something totally new and crazy. About the best I could do at describing her was that she was dark sable, big brown eyes, huge radar dome ears, very clumsy, excellent at chewing on things, even better at making poop, exceptionally good letting her curiosity get the best of her, and maybe or maybe not a GSD. It wasn't until she grew older that her GSD characteristics started to dominate.

Anyways, I'm not trying to hijack the thread and since I had a similar situation with my dog I felt it belonged in this thread. I'm curious if there are definite answers on how to identify certain puppies.

I just joined this forum the other day and I'm impressed with everyone's knowledge and desire to share it.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

This tread was started on July 5. It is now the end of september almost 4 months later. What does the dog look like now? Current pics would be interesting.


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)




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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

Lexi is beautiful abood, she does look like a mix though. she has a very foxy face, but very cute.


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## christinaekenn (Jan 10, 2011)

she is beautiful- I see a lot more Terv than GSD in there from her baby photos and especially her recent photos


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree, certainly a mix but I cannot say with what  Pretty girl!


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

thx all i know shes pretty isnt she  i figured out shes mix looking at her size as shes not as big as her peers , any ideas and looking at her hair she definitely have belgian tervuren in here , i was going with shes a tervuren malinois mix  but still got the issue of size it just buggs me :/


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

That is a pure Terv. Give her another shed or two and it will be very obvious. Very pretty dog.


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## christinaekenn (Jan 10, 2011)

how big is she? she looks super sized for agility  I see something else other than just terv in there...cant put my finger on it. Not malinois...but something of a smaller breed in her expression and bone structure. I love her!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

I'd either say you have a GSD. or MAYBE (and I'm no expert) a Norwegian Elkhound. check out the link...

malinois puppy photos - Google Search


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

the link will show you Norwegian Elkhound pups, not Malinois...I'm not sure why it says that


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

i cant really know whats the max as her looks are not even close to a canaan dog , and she is super in agility she likes to run her fav. game is fetch and i run with her alot , taught her how to jump up stuff and shes pretty good at it she jumps over obsticales about 70 - 90 cm which is good for her first time  and who doesnt love her shes super , mm i dont thinks it too white for her as she have all the colours and shape of a terv but not the siize :/


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

abood said:


> she have all the colours and shape of a terv but not the siize :/


If she is over 22 inches she is within the standard for a Terv. 

How old is she?


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## Frankly I'm Frank (Jan 2, 2012)

abood said:


> i cant really know whats the max as her looks are not even close to a canaan dog , and she is super in agility she likes to run her fav. game is fetch and i run with her alot , taught her how to jump up stuff and shes pretty good at it she jumps over obsticales about 70 - 90 cm which is good for her first time  and who doesnt love her shes super , mm i dont thinks it too white for her as she have all the colours and shape of a terv but not the siize :/


Do you have recent pictures? At 9 months she should be about full size.


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

mmm i dont think shes over 22 inches ;/ shes about over my knee with 3-4 cm ( am 178 )  , ill try to get some pictures of her tomorrow hopefully


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

a close up








an one from far


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

She is absolutely NOT a pure Terv, she is a nice mix, and should be loved as such..spay her and train her and love her


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

-.-' we get that she is not pure , whats the mix thats the question , already trained spayed and much love for her


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## k_sep (Jun 21, 2011)

I have no idea what she is, but I just wanted to comment and say how gorgeous she is!


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

yes she is thank you , i still need to know what the mix is any help ???


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## k_sep (Jun 21, 2011)

No one is going to be able to tell you for sure. You've already gotten a fair amount of responses. What do you think she is?


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

honestly i dont know , i thought she is a sable german at first and when she grew a little i said she is a belgian malinois and now i say she is a belgian terv. but am sure there is a mix and i would love to know what it is , my friend asked me to breed her with his purebred belgian malinois and i said no she is spayed but out of curiosity i wanted to know what the puppies would be like if i had bred her :/ would they be large or small , what about the colours and the shape :/ is there any way of knowing my dog breed exactly , and i need it for behavioral research regarding my dog , as she has stuff in her behaviors i dont see other dogs do it , like she is not motivated enough or only motivated by her fav. toy she is stubborn she likes her way and she still remember stuff from the past when she was abused :/


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Can you get some GOOD pictures of her?


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## abood (Jun 17, 2011)

sure , but that have to be done tommorow , 4 am in here  cya tommorow


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