# eCollar contact question



## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

I use Dogtra IQ Plus eCollars with my pups so that they can be off leash with me while running and walking in the woods without worry about them running after something. One of my dogs has thick fur around his neck so that sometimes I don't think the contacts reach his skin, even though I'm positioning it as advised by Larry Krohn, somewhat to the side of the larynx, and quite snug. I hate to have to always test to see if it is making contact, but many times I don't think it is. (No visible reaction to the stim, when usually I get at least a nod or small head turn.) I know the collar is on and working because it works on vibrate. I can also turn it up very high and then I get a small reaction. I usually then try to adjust the fit, not making it tighter because it is already so tight that my fingers will not easily go under the band, but by moving the hair out of the way of the contacts. Sometimes this works, but other times I have to keep adjusting. This is not good because I cannot depend on what level will work to simulate the dog. I don't want to turn it up real high, thinking it necessary to make contact, and then have it make contact and zap the dog inappropriately. 

The other dog doesn't have these issues with a different collar, but identical brand. Her fur is a little shorter and not quite as thick, so I think the fur is the problem. I just don't know what to do about it. Has anyone else had similar issue who can offer some suggestions?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

It can be a bit of a struggle to get consistent contact on a dog with a really thick coat. My younger GSD is the first one I had to get different contact points for.

I use the next size up from what come standard on a Dogtra. I think his contacts are the 3/4 inch ones. A bungee collar can also help although I haven't needed one for mine. I know people with longer coated dogs who use bungee strap and the longer contact points.

Gundog supply sells the contact points.


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

Thank you Thecowboysgirl. I've contacted Dogtra to try to get more information on extensions or longer contacts. They also sell them at their site. I'm not crazy about the bungee strap idea.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

There is one style of bungee I don't like at all either, not sure if that is the one you mean.

This one I have used and liked it a lot:

https://www.ecollar.com/products/3-4-quick-snap-bnungee-collar-33-length

I think these are the ones you'lll need but not positive the IQ takes the same contacts as the other collars, I don't use the IQ

https://www.dogtrainerstore.com/pro...7xu4mNH80Pz4aAkU9EALw_wcB&variant=58843662923

Good luck


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I love this collar: https://k9tacticalgear.com/collections/tactical-nylon-collars/products/quick-elastic-e-collar-holder, along with the largest contacts. Until I got this collar and the larger contacts it was always a crap shoot.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

ausdland said:


> I love this collar: https://k9tacticalgear.com/collections/tactical-nylon-collars/products/quick-elastic-e-collar-holder, along with the largest contacts. Until I got this collar and the larger contacts it was always a crap shoot.


Ooooh I like this! I have not seen this before and I've shopped K9 Tactical a few times! The black part is an elastic portion of the collar strap?

My boy really does need a new strap I just haven't had an extra 30-40 bucks to dump on something


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Oh bleh. It won't work.

"Dogtra Arc and Dogtra 1900s are not fully compatible with this collar. The shape of these collars causes the Quick Elastic E-Collar Holder to "flip" causing the contact points to lose contact with the dog's neck. The Arc collar is smaller and is more likely to work, but the 1900s can have issues. "

I use a 1900


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

Hey guys, thanks for this thread! I have a dogtra IQ+ that has been collecting dust as I ran into the same problem as @techinstructor. I don't think the contact points are able to penetrate his fur so it is a crap shoot if it is going to work or not. I felt like I had to darn hear strangle him with the collar for it to work....so tried it once and stopped as I wasn't comfortable with that. Thanks so much for the insight here. Now that Jax is older I'd like to try again so that he can romp off leash at times. I am currently looking at this website:

https://dg.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/23399/Contact-Points-.html (They have a sale running ATM btw....so if you need longer contacts now is a great time!)

So Jax has a short but very thick coat. Any advice on what length contact points I should get? Was looking at the 1" ones to be on the safe side but would love input from someone who has some experience before I order.

Will also be looking into the collar suggested by @ausdland Thanks!!

Pic below of Jax for reference.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

My wife bought a Dogtra 2300 ncp to use with Ranger and could get it to work, but it was a struggle some times. Ranger being a coatie with super dense hair around his neck made getting contact a chore at times. I tried my ET300 which has a smaller receiver and had better luck, however keeping the hair out of the tiny buckle while fastening it is a pita. I've been contemplating using bungee like Cowboysgirl posted as see if that helps. I could see something like this helping to apply pressure more consistently.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I’ve never had problems with a Dogtra unless it was too loose or in the wrong position or not fully charged. Charge it daily. Take it off the charger the minute it turns green.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I think any ecollar not tight enough will have risk not working. I have found out winter coats make a difference to even in a dog with not long fur. Also being to concerned about the tightness leads to it not working. I find with winter coats in the winter time with no room for error- I had found out. It was colder weather I remember when max blew through the ecollar after a pack of deer when we were in woods near the house and left me and Luna in the dust. At first I thought it was low battery then realized his collar was not tight it could of been either one of those but mine beeps red when it needs to be charged. Those collars look nice with the stretch.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

Waited too long to edit. Please disregard the link in my previous post. Found them cheaper on Amazon!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> I think any ecollar not tight enough will have risk not working. I have found out winter coats make a difference to even in a dog with not long fur. Also being to concerned about the tightness leads to it not working. I find with winter coats in the winter time with no room for error- I had found out. It was colder weather I remember when max blew through the ecollar after a pack of deer when we were in woods near the house and left me and Luna in the dust. At first I thought it was low battery then realized his collar was not tight it could of been either one of those but mine beeps red when it needs to be charged. Those collars look nice with the stretch.


Winter coats plus some dogs can have ridiculously dense coats, this is Ranger. Our Dogtra performs perfectly and so does our educator on other dogs, getting consistent contact using either with him has its challenges. I think the thinner collar on the et300 displaces a bit less hair making it a little easier to get tight, but then I find getting the hair out of the smaller buckle as real pain. It's a toss up really.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > I think any ecollar not tight enough will have risk not working. I have found out winter coats make a difference to even in a dog with not long fur. Also being to concerned about the tightness leads to it not working. I find with winter coats in the winter time with no room for error- I had found out. It was colder weather I remember when max blew through the ecollar after a pack of deer when we were in woods near the house and left me and Luna in the dust. At first I thought it was low battery then realized his collar was not tight it could of been either one of those but mine beeps red when it needs to be charged. Those collars look nice with the stretch.
> ...


I have a dogtra arc with longer Prong also -My first collar. I dusted it off also and finally got used to using that one to. I do have to put them both on tight and can’t be laxed. The price for safe freedom. I like the dogtra and garmin both. The dogtra toggle switch is a bit sensitive and I am sure to be careful with this. 
Yes they can some really thick coats. Mine are still shedding and not sure where all this fur is coming from. Even wet fur and then air dried with salt water adds some extra body. Lol!


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

JaxsMom said:


> Waited too long to edit. Please disregard the link in my previous post. Found them cheaper on Amazon!



Dogtra sells them for $4.49 each, though you may have to pay shipping.


https://www.dogtra.com/products/dogtra-parts 



The dogtrainer store that TheCowboysgirl linked has them at the same price.


I like the webbing/elastic collar, though the price seems a little high. I might try to make one as I think I have all the components except for the buckle and I can get a quick release cobra buckle for a little over $10. I do like the idea and I think the webbing would be more comfortable for the dog that those vinyl one.

I'm going to try the longer contacts first. I'm going to start with 3/4" and if that doesn't work I can then try 1". Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has had these issues.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Ooooh I like this! I have not seen this before and I've shopped K9 Tactical a few times! The black part is an elastic portion of the collar strap?
> 
> My boy really does need a new strap I just haven't had an extra 30-40 bucks to dump on something


Yes, short elastic section that keeps it snug but will expand with heavy breathing.
K9 Tach are awesome, nice ppl small family business, they make most of what they sell and I love the Defender harness too.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

JaxsMom said:


> Hey guys, thanks for this thread! I have a dogtra IQ+ that has been collecting dust as I ran into the same problem as @techinstructor. I don't think the contact points are able to penetrate his fur so it is a crap shoot if it is going to work or not. I felt like I had to darn hear strangle him with the collar for it to work....so tried it once and stopped as I wasn't comfortable with that. Thanks so much for the insight here. Now that Jax is older I'd like to try again so that he can romp off leash at times. I am currently looking at this website:
> 
> https://dg.factoryoutletstore.com/cat/23399/Contact-Points-.html (They have a sale running ATM btw....so if you need longer contacts now is a great time!)
> 
> ...


The largest contact points you can get. Beautiful dog!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

i was also going to mention the toggle switch on the remote, that selects which channel to use. Use the vibration mode to check which one is working, then check them make sure you haven’t accidentally switched channels.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

ausdland said:


> Yes, short elastic section that keeps it snug but will expand with heavy breathing.
> K9 Tach are awesome, nice ppl small family business, they make most of what they sell and I love the Defender harness too.


I like them too. Used to be the only place I could get the yellow foam ball on a leather strap which my dog is nuts for. Now Leerburg sells them but I feel like a traitor to buy it from Leerburg 

I like that harness but I don't know why they attach the girth strap so far forward on so many harnesses? I got obsessed with this when trying to find a tracking harness that would not pinch my dog in the arm pits. He is like a mile long and every harness I tried rode up in his armpits. I finally found one that fits him. I really like the look of the Julius K9 Mantrailing harness for him but it is a little wishy washy whether it is allowed in AKC competition and I don't want to train in a harness I can't compete in or risk being told I can't go into the test in the harness he is used to, so I've never tried it


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

ausdland said:


> Yes, short elastic section that keeps it snug but will expand with heavy breathing.
> K9 Tach are awesome, nice ppl small family business, they make most of what they sell and I love the Defender harness too.


I like them too. Used to be the only place I could get the yellow foam ball on a leather strap which my dog is nuts for. Now Leerburg sells them but I feel like a traitor to buy it from Leerburg 

I like that harness but I don't know why they attach the girth strap so far forward on so many harnesses? I got obsessed with this when trying to find a tracking harness that would not pinch my dog in the arm pits. He is like a mile long and every harness I tried rode up in his armpits. I finally found one that fits him. I really like the look of the Julius K9 Mantrailing harness for him but it is a little wishy washy whether it is allowed in AKC competition and I don't want to train in a harness I can't compete in or risk being told I can't go into the test in the harness he is used to, so I've never tried it


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I like them too. Used to be the only place I could get the yellow foam ball on a leather strap which my dog is nuts for. Now Leerburg sells them but I feel like a traitor to buy it from Leerburg
> 
> I like that harness but I don't know why they attach the girth strap so far forward on so many harnesses? I got obsessed with this when trying to find a tracking harness that would not pinch my dog in the arm pits. He is like a mile long and every harness I tried rode up in his armpits. I finally found one that fits him. I really like the look of the Julius K9 Mantrailing harness for him but it is a little wishy washy whether it is allowed in AKC competition and I don't want to train in a harness I can't compete in or risk being told I can't go into the test in the harness he is used to, so I've never tried it


I've seen those yellow foam ball and leather straps before and been tempted, but the word "foam" sounds like it would be short lived? Will it last a while if used only during training?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Nigel said:


> Thecowboysgirl said:
> 
> 
> > I like them too. Used to be the only place I could get the yellow foam ball on a leather strap which my dog is nuts for. Now Leerburg sells them but I feel like a traitor to buy it from Leerburg /forum/images/smilies/frown.gif
> ...


They last quite well unless you let a toy destroyer go to town ripping them up. They'll last 1 minute alone with a dog like that. But supervised tug and toss they do pretty well, I've used the same one for my male for a few months at a time.

There is a $6 cheapie version on chewy if you want to try it. The rope on those balls does not last, but it is the same ball. The leather does last


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> i was also going to mention the toggle switch on the remote, that selects which channel to use. Use the vibration mode to check which one is working, then check them make sure you haven’t accidentally switched channels.



Yes, I do check that frequently because I switch back and forth between the two dogs. (I have messed up a couple of times and nicked the wrong one, fortunately on the low level.) I love being able to check it on vibrate but that won't let you know if the contacts are actually touching or not.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> They last quite well unless you let a toy destroyer go to town ripping them up. They'll last 1 minute alone with a dog like that. But supervised tug and toss they do pretty well, I've used the same one for my male for a few months at a time.
> 
> There is a $6 cheapie version on chewy if you want to try it. The rope on those balls does not last, but it is the same ball. The leather does last


I keep certain rewards put up and are for training only so that's how I'd use it. I have some yellow balls on what looks like heavy 5-50 cord, but the ball is heavy and I might give them or myself a concussion swinging it around, lol!

Where did you order yours?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

i've bought both the yellow foam on a leather strap and the green chew ball on a leather strap from K9 Tactical, that was discussed in this thread.

For dogs that like to tug hard I do think the harder balls are maybe better to grab onto. But I still like the yellow foam ones and they are very popular with the dogs. The boarder dogs always want them so I keep the cheapies around for them because i don't want them wrecking my training toys.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

ausdland said:


> The largest contact points you can get. Beautiful dog!


Thanks! :grin2:


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> I’ve never had problems with a Dogtra unless it was too loose or in the wrong position or not fully charged. Charge it daily. Take it off the charger the minute it turns green.


I charge mine about once a week and have only once let them get so low that they were blinking orange instead of green. However, after reading this I did charge the units and seemed to get better response with the original contacts so this might be part of the problem. I'll try to charge them more frequently in the future.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

Thanks all for the advice here. I got the 3/4" contacts yesterday and tested them out to get a working level. It's amazing how smart these dogs are! I used it one time after a "no" on a low level to discourage him from pestering my smaller dog (a nightly affair unless she goes into one of the kids rooms) and he left her alone the rest of the evening lol. Also it's amazing how he spent the night listening perfectly to every command no matter how soft spoken......perfect down stay while I took out the garbage. Usually this looks more like down stay till I go through the door then I come back to him pawing at the storm door. I made sure to give him extra tug time and food rewards for good behavior while he was in the collar and, while he was more subdued, he was generally himself, just a more obedient version of himself lol. Proves he does know what I am saying and just chooses not to listen at times, grrr. Seems it may be a good tool to use when we have company and he has a hard time settling down. I cannot wait to start training him outdoors with this and be able to let him romp around off leash!

I'm still waiting for the new collar, but am able to use it even with the stock collar without feeling like I'm choking him now, so thanks again all!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

techinstructor said:


> I charge mine about once a week and have only once let them get so low that they were blinking orange instead of green. However, after reading this I did charge the units and seemed to get better response with the original contacts so this might be part of the problem. I'll try to charge them more frequently in the future.


I keep mine charged at all times and I don’t use them much so the charge rarely gets low. Don’t overcharge and they will last longer. I take the collar and remote off immediately when the light turns green. I dont leave it charging overnight.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Do not use the remote if the other dog’s face is near your dog’s neck or he might blame the other dog for the shock.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> Do not use the remote if the other dog’s face is near your dog’s neck or he might blame the other dog for the shock.


Noted, and thanks. Made sure that was not the case. Literally only used the remote one time last night (after I tested to get his working level of course, so twice) and he was a perfect angel the rest of the evening. We had tried the collar a bit about 8 months or so ago but had to keep it too tight due to the short contacts. I feel like he remembers. I definitely got the idea that he knew the correction was coming from me....he gave me the side eye lol.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It’s not a bad thing if they know it's from you and that you expect them to behave well.


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## JaxsMom (Dec 31, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> It’s not a bad thing if they know it's from you and that you expect them to behave well.


I agree completely. We went through some periods during his adolescent phase where he wore his prong around the house in the evenings with a 5" cut leash in case he needed reminding of his manners. Back when he would still jump up at times. He has always been a fairly good boy, not destructive, no counter surfing even when the kids leave plates up there, doesn't try to dash through doors, rings his bell when he needs to go out. Can be trusted out of his crate while we are at work/school. Now he mainly just needs reminding that his sister was not put on this earth for him to pester. He gets such a kick out of nose booping her to get a reaction. Never aggressive, always playful, but still can be tiring...especially for her.


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> Do not use the remote if the other dog’s face is near your dog’s neck or he might blame the other dog for the shock.



Good point. It hasn't been an issue but one time Dasha, the older dog, went after a squirrel. I had to ratchet up the stim to get her to stop and come back and when she did she jumped on Natty, the younger, though bigger dog who was not near her when she was zapped. I zapped her again to let her know that she can't take out her frustrations on him. She hasn't done it again, but then she's also learned how to avoid getting zapped. It was an interesting reaction though.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If they learn how to avoid a zap, then they are learning what you want them to do. It’s working. That is why I rarely need to use it. I was having some serious behavior problems that I could not stop because I didn't understand a WL temperament or drive. My dog is also very playful, so he learned if something is good, to do it in as big a way as possible. He was leaping on my back from behind. He knew not to jump from the front, but quickly realized I could not stop him from behind as I didn’t even know he was going to jump until he did. The collar stopped that behavior instantly. Recently, my senior dog has been jumping the fence and chasing things. It’s a completely new and unexpected behavior for a dog who should be slowing down. He has been with her every time and always returns when I call him. He hasn’t even tried to jump the fence. The first time, I used one click on the collar, but after that, he knew when she went over the fence, it was his cue to run to me and into the house. I don't use an e collar on her and I won’t, so I have had to be creative, but she hasn’t gone over in a while. Hasn’t even tried, fortunately.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I may have left the impression I use an ecollar as a quick fix, which I don’t. I barely use it and I was trained by a professional to become proficient. My younger dog has solid foundation work behind his training which I reinforce often. Right now our training is scentwork, and I have never used an e collar during that. It’s all fun with a lot of rewards and praise. When he gets his reward, he marches around with his head and tail up and smiles. My older dog had a year of standard obedience and even got a near perfect score at a match. But I saw she was no longer enjoying it or showing enthusiasm in classes, so I stopped. She gradually forgot most of it. Training isn’t a one time thing. Even problem solving needs to be reinforced with positive behaviors. And an e collar if used shouldn’t be the end of training but just one more tool along the way.


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> And an e collar if used shouldn’t be the end of training but just one more tool along the way.



LuvShepherds, I couldn't agree more. I'm fairly new to the eCollar and hesitated using it for a long time. But I finally tried it after the older dog ran after a squirrel onto my neighbors property one time too many. I've read and watched video (Larry Krohn, and Leerburg) to learn how to effectively use the collar and find that it is a wonderful tool. But as Krohn advises, it is used to reinforce a skill that has already been trained - not to do the training. I reinforce correct choices with positive rewards, whether I've used the collar or not. I don't use it often with my dogs either, but it has given provided a safety net so that now I walk my pups in the woods off leash and allow them to run and explore, which they love. I couldn't do this before. I still walk them on leash too, so they don't lose the skill, but I love being able to let them have some freedom without me worrying about the one remote chance that they might run off after something. It is a great tool but you are exactly right that it does not take the place of training.


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