# Bad breeder



## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

I am curious what others would do. I gave a breeder a $400 deposit for a future breeding knowing who the dam and sire were to be. She told me that her girl was to go in heat in May. I sent her double her deposit to get first pick. May came and went and no heat. I found out that she moved, which when putting the deposit down I was going to be able to pick the pup up and meet the dam. She didn't tell me she moved until she accidentally let it slip. August came and no heat and I found out that she is going to Europe for a month so if her dog goes into heat she won't be there! AND she isn't using the male that I had agreed on and she tells me that the male she uses is none of my business! Well she is refusing to give me back my deposit saying that she will give me a pup when she wants to and that I better be ready to get the pup from the airport whenever she decides to ship it. She has become very hostile with me. She also wouldn't give me any info on the male that she decided to use until I finally figured that her female either wasn't going into heat or had skipped one due to her moving across the country (which isn't impossible) so I said that to her and said that she hadn't given me info on the male, moved so my pup would have to be shipped, the time would be off for when I could get a pup and she broke the written contract and I wanted my deposit back. That is when she freaked out on me told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and that I wouldn't be getting my money back and basically screw me. But she did send me a picture and the pedigree of the male, like that would make up for yelling at me and basically calling me an idiot. She told me twice during our convos that if she couldn't produce a pup for said litter (meaning the mother and father that I put the deposit on) that she would refund the deposit. Now she is saying that she will not give back the deposit even though she was not truthful with me about the parents, the way I would be able to pick up the pup, the time that we agreed on (I told her that I needed a pup around fall of 2013, which is why I chose the breeding she was to have in May over her earlier February litter) all she said was to bad, things change and you will get a pup from me sometime. I am thinking of contacting the AKC to complain. Has anyone done this and did it help or make it worse?

Sorry this is so long :crazy:


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## stmcfred (Aug 13, 2013)

Awful! 

What does your contract state regarding the deposit?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Was it a non-refundable deposit? You may have to chalk it up to a lesson learned. Many breeders will not accept deposits until the puppies are born (and likewise, I personally would not pay one since timing is important for me). Shady of the breeder but there might not be anything you can do.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

What a horrible experience. I hope that you can get your money back. Unfortunately I have no experience in dealing with breeders so maybe someone else can chime in. All my dogs were rescues prior to Raina and I had a friend in Germany pick her out according to my specifications. He did a great job.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

Heck some places it is against state law to accept a deposit before they are born. Though I don't know if a written contract can change that. So sorry you are going through this.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

KathrynApril said:


> Heck some places it is against state law to accept a deposit before they are born. Though I don't know if a written contract can change that. So sorry you are going through this.


Can you show the law concerning this and where it is like this. I have never heard of any laws that were so specific, but it will be interesting to see where and what all is in such a law.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

First I would check your written contract,,kinda sounds like you maybe didn't get one??

If you didn't get a written contract, I hope you have proof of the deposit you sent her (cancelled check?)

Personally, I would send her a certified letter stating, since the breeding did not take place, you want return of your deposit, if you don't receive in xxx days, you will be having your lawyer contact her...

I would also contact AKC tho, they can do nothing about it, they are just a registry. 

It would all depend on if and what your written contract states..


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

You might try asking a lawyer to send her a nasty letter. Might cost you a few bucks, but it would be money well spent if you can get your deposit back. You can also go to small claims court. Be sure you have documents to back up what you are saying, receipts, a copy of the cashed check, copies of any agreements signed, emails between you and the breeder, etc. If you talk to her on the phone, note the date, time, and what she said. Document everything! I'm sorry this is happening to you, unfortunately there are an awful lot of unscrupulous people breeding dogs.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Do you know this breeder? Have you ever met in person? Sorry...baffles me that someone would send a stranger $800 without actually meeting or getting some sort of paperwork back stating what is expected. My breeder...sent me a contract first, and said to return it with a check for the deposit if I agree to its terms. I would've never just dropped a check into the mail, oh and mine was only $100.

I don't know if the AKC even has a department for this. Maybe they do just to make someone happy, but then they don't really do anything about it. They can't ask her to get your money back, plus they can't guarantee that YOUR story is the truth anyways so what are they supposed to do? Just call a random person out of the blue and threaten to not allow them to register their dogs. Plus that's how the AKC makes money, the last thing they'd ever do is refuse to register dogs.


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## Maik (Sep 24, 2012)

KathrynApril said:


> Heck some places it is against state law to accept a deposit before they are born. Though I don't know if a written contract can change that. So sorry you are going through this.


There is no such law anywhere inn the US. 
Unfortunately dogs are considered property and as such are subject to the laws of the uniform commercial code.
If the op has no written contract, the only remedy will likely be small claims court....

I don't understand why anyone would make an oral contract for anything as significant as the purchase of an unborn pup.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

File a claim against her in small claims court/local magistrate where the transaction took place. Have the cancelled checks, all emails and correspondence, copies of any relevant pedigrees showing teh breeding you were putting a deposit on....get a judgement for your deposit....then contact the better business bureau where she lives now, ask how to file a complaint, and if there is some way to collect on that judgement in her jurisdiction. You may need an attorney or bill collection agency type contact - or to file another small claim there to collect the judgement.

Totally uncalled for.....I just don't take deposits until the pups are born or close....it is easier on everyone that way.

Lee


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

It is fraud and you can file a report in the police. She collected money for a litter that never happened and probably wasn't even planned to happen. She also moved right after she collected money so I would expect her phone will be soon disconnected and her email will bounce. I'm sure you were not the only one who submitted the deposits for this litter, that's probably how she obtained her money for the move. I would not even be surprised if the female is spayed.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Where is this breeder located? This exact same thing (right down to the breeder moving) happened to someone else on this board, with a breeder in NY.... I always wondered what the outcome was...


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks guys. It is so dumb, I had been in contact with this breeder for over a year so I felt like I knew her. Here is the stupid on me part. We were in contact on Facebook (First started with email though) and all of our interactions including the contract for the pup was on Facebook message so I do have record of everything that was said but I didn't sign anything. She did state that she recieved my money and all that so I do have that.

I'm annoyed cause now she has on her page that she is going to breed Cola, the female I wanted a pup from this month...How is it possible that she was suppose to go into heat in May but now she will go this month? GRRRR I think this breeder is crazy! I kinda want to call her out here just so nobody else gets screwed. I wouldn't have sent her money before she even went into heat if I hadn't been in contact with this lady for over a year and I know she had two litters last year (well one in june and one this february) So I assumed her girl was pretty regular. 

Actually I did the math and figured she would go into heat in July but the breeder said no May so I was like okay, you know your dog. She was originally in Nevada and now is in Michigan. I am in Utah so that is why I picked her so I could go to her. I think I will see if the dog actually does go into heat this month and if (when) she doesn't I will tell her I am contacting an attorney. Maybe she will give me my money if she thinks I will take her to court. Thanks for the help!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If she went into heat in May, and came up empty, it is very likely that she will go into heat this month, if she is on a six month schedule. Lots are. Some aren't. Some go in every 5 months. Some go in somewhere between 8 and 10 months. So it really isn't as cut and dried as doing the math. 

I have had 4 bitches with more than one litter, and only one of them produced a litter within 10 days of 1 year of the previous. So it is highly dependent on the bitch.


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

I had a received a deposit on a litter that ended up not pregnant, gave the puppy buyer the option to wait for next litter or refund. They decided to wait. They ended up waiting through a couple of years, and each time I offered to refund their deposit. They chose to continue to wait, and finally got a puppy that they love. 

Biggest thing for the OP, did you have a written contract?? If not, Do you have proof of verbal agreement concerning your puppy purchase. 

I will hold on to the deposit money until I am positive that I have the litter and a puppy for them. When I do have a puppy for them, then it becomes a non-refundable deposit, and even then, depending on circumstances, I may still refund, even though the refund is non-refundable in my contract.

Good luck!!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

mnm said:


> I had a received a deposit on a litter that ended up not pregnant, gave the puppy buyer the option to wait for next litter or refund. They decided to wait. They ended up waiting through a couple of years, and each time I offered to refund their deposit. They chose to continue to wait, and finally got a puppy that they love.
> 
> Biggest thing for the OP, did you have a written contract?? If not, Do you have proof of verbal agreement concerning your puppy purchase.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming this is because you have NO problem selling your puppies.

I'm currently 2nd in line for a female out of a litter. We're still 50/50 on if we'll be able to welcome a second dog into our household in 4 months, but the breeder doesn't care. She has 10 people behind me that would kill for that puppy. So she didn't take a deposit, probably won't. It helps that she's a club member and I consider her a friend so dealing with her is different than a stranger.

Someone that gets shady about deposits, or requests them, and also requests double for first pick...clearly knows they need the money up front to lock you into the transaction. Otherwise they're worried they'll end up with a bunch of 8 week old puppies without homes when those people back out.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

OP...you have two options. 1) Call a lawyer, threaten a lawsuit, and then go through with the lawsuit. 2) Chalk it up to a learning experience on business and how to deal with people.

I'm an accountant...so sending or giving anyone money without an invoice or a written contract is extremely counter intuitive. I get confused when people think they can trust strangers enough for that type of transaction. I get worried when I deal with paypal outside of ebay or another legitimate website...and won't calm down until I get the package.

Hopefully you have a friend or a family member that's a lawyer and can draw up a proper threat to this breeder. Otherwise, if you pay a lawyer for 4 hours of work you're still going to end up losing money. If you pay a lawyer for 2 hours you might still lose because although you can get a judgement against the breeder for the money...the court can't force them to pay, and a collection agency will charge you a pretty good percentage to collect the money.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

Maik said:


> There is no such law anywhere inn the US.
> Unfortunately dogs are considered property and as such are subject to the laws of the uniform commercial code.
> If the op has no written contract, the only remedy will likely be small claims court....
> 
> I don't understand why anyone would make an oral contract for anything as significant as the purchase of an unborn pup.





KathrynApril said:


> Heck some places it is against state law to accept a deposit before they are born. Though I don't know if a written contract can change that. So sorry you are going through this.


Ugh. It was suppose to say "Heck I think some places it is against state law to accept a deposit before they are born." I re-looked at what I thought I read that off of but it is just about how old they can be before they are sold. I was looking at this link: Age to Sell Puppy Table.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

there was another member here who is in the same position , (not the same breeder), sent a deposit, I think the breeder told her it didn't take or something, but the woman is having puppies,,anyhow, it boiled down to, she gave a deposit, didn't get a puppy (not her fault, the fault of the breeder), and the breeder refuses to communicate with her...Police can do 'nothing', it's a civil matter, tho personally I think it's fraud..

So, she wrote to the state's attorney office, not sure if she's gotten any reply, haven't seen her post in awhile..And was going to pursue small claims, even tho her's was only 400, it was the principle of the thing, and to give them some bad 'press' for bad breeding practices..


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Supposedly the female will be in heat and ready to breed this month so I think that if she doesn't go in again I will ask her nicely (again) for my money back and if she still says no then I will threaten her with a lawyer. My bad for making it sound like it was $800, I sent her $400 because her deposit is $200. I guess contacting the AKC and reporting her isn't going to do much good cause (I don't remember who said it) the AKC is really only about making money anymore. My girl is AKC and UKC registered for that reason. I like the UKC better. BTW I did end up buying a pup because I had a plan and I needed to keep with my time frame and after this breeder screwed around with me so much I found a dog of as good quality but different lines. But I did NOT even look at other dogs till this breeder basically told me I was stupid and that she wouldn't give me my money no matter what. I unfriended her on facebook too. But I do have messages sent and everything about our dealing that I can take to a lawyer.

This breeder breeds back to back so I do know that she is on a go into heat every 8 month cycle. But I do think that moving cross country effected her going into heat on time and that is the breeders fault, not mine. I am breeding my pup IF she turns out the way I think she will. I have a clear goal in mind for what I am looking for in my litters and this experience has made it very clear to me exactly how I am NOT going to treat my puppy buyers. So I guess if anything good comes out of this experience, it is that! Thanks for the support and advice!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Why is your dog AKC and UKC registered? Do you show in both venues?


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

This is so horrible! My jaw dropped when I read that the sire is 'none of your business' OMG! Well, it kind of is!! I can't understand how some people can live with themselves. OP, do WHATEVER you can to get your money back. If this breeder does it to you and gets away with it, it's only going to happen to someone else. Good thing you have record of the messages. I wish you the best!


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

She came to me AKC registered and lets face it, everyone that knows dogs knows that registry. But I am showing her UKC because I think that they are more true with their conformation for not just show line dogs. My girl is DDR but I want more of an opinion of her than mine, if that makes sense. 

Thanks, PupperLove, it really is a nasty thing that happened and I am sad that I am not the only person that has experienced this kind of crap at the hands of a "reputable breeder". I am not going to just let her keep my money without a fight. There is no reason she should have it. She did nothing but screw me over after knowing me for a year and knowing what I wanted and was looking for.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

And while we are talking about AKC, have you checked to make sure the breeder is not suspended and is able to register puppies? Not many people realize that a breeder can have registration privileges revoked. With all the shady things going on with this breeder, that would be the first thing I check.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

I will check and see if she is suspended but I know that she registered the litter she had in January so my guess is she is not. That one thing I was wondering about...if I contact them and tell them my story and send them all the conversations we have had, I wonder if they will suspend her. She really shouldn't be able to treat people like this and get away with it. 

The breeder I bought my current girl from said that he has had some run ins with her and that she isn't the best example of a "reputable breeder". And I get the feeling he wasn't just trying to sell me a pup cause he changed the subject when I asked him if he knew her up front. But he just said yes I know of her then that was all, but when I was taking my girl home he kinda opened up about stuff he had heard about her. So good on him for not just bad mouthing her to sell a pup.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

BriskaBoo13 said:


> I will check and see if she is suspended but I know that she registered the litter she had in January so my guess is she is not. That one thing I was wondering about...if I contact them and tell them my story and send them all the conversations we have had, I wonder if they will suspend her. She really shouldn't be able to treat people like this and get away with it.
> 
> The breeder I bought my current girl from said that he has had some run ins with her and that she isn't the best example of a "reputable breeder". And I get the feeling he wasn't just trying to sell me a pup cause he changed the subject when I asked him if he knew her up front. But he just said yes I know of her then that was all, but when I was taking my girl home he kinda opened up about stuff he had heard about her. So good on him for not just bad mouthing her to sell a pup.


No, they probably won't. I mean...a company can't just do that based off of ONE story. I know you feel terrible and you're angry, but they have to be a little more objective. Usually they'll suspend people for puppy mill type activities and mistreatment of animals, not really bad business practices. They aren't in the business of governing the business side of selling puppies, but just because of the nature of who they are, people have started to expect them to do something about the treatment of breeding animals. If they were to start pulling registration rights because customers were complaining, you'd get thousands of complaints and pissed off customers because a dog developed HD or some other genetic disease...which isn't what the AKC should be doing.

Your goal right now should be to contact the proper authorities that could do something about getting your money back. Try contacting the BBB to prevent this from happening ever again. If she's on a website, see if you can post a review somewhere and let people know what happened.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

So it has been 6 months since this "breeder" contacted me. So I contacted her and told her that I would get an attorney involved if she didn't return my money. She threatened me with defamation of character (which you can't when all the bad stuff is true) along with a few other nasty comments about me and my intelligence :crazy: And I got a bit rough, told her that any breeder worth their salt that cared about their reputation at all wouldn't screw people over and lie and call them names. She told me that it isn't her fault that the dam I put money on didn't go into heat and that they are animals (and I'm dumb for thinking that it's her fault) and that she has two litters on the ground now and I am blankety blank for saying that she isn't a good breeder. I'm like okay well you have had 6 months to tell me about these other litters you have on the ground and you could have put my deposit on one of those litters after you told me about them. After a while she wrote back and said she will give me half back but she is keeping half because I chose first pick female. I'm like well you have 1 week to get me that amount then or I will be taking the full amount back and taking you to court. I think there is no winning with this crazy person so I will just take the half and be done with her. Even though in no way does she have rights to even half my money. She has three days left before she gets a letter from an attorney 

Anyone that wants to know who this breeder is to avoid the **** I have been though, please feel free to PM me.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

for 200 bucks i would consider this a lesson learned. a lawyer will most likely cost more.


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## Kejasa (Jul 8, 2012)

I had a really bad run in with a breeder as well, so I will share what I learned in the process:

-You can make a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in the county where the breeder lives. The BBB will contact the breeder on your behalf and attempt to solve the dispute. Prepare to go back and forth with the breeder through the BBB. Prepare to defend yourself because most likely the truth will not be told. Go to the BBB before you go to court.

-You can make complaints about this breeder on review type websites, such as Ripoff Report.

-You can take the breeder to small claims. If the breeder is a LLC, the case may get bumped to regular court. The breeder can also request the case be bumped to a higher court. There are no lawyers in small claims court in my state...check your own....there are lawyers in higher courts. Breeders who have lawyers (mine was related to one) may bump the case to higher court and now it is you against their lawyer. 

-Getting your own lawyer will cost you more than the amount to be collected, so it is not worth it for you....and the breeder may know this. Bumping the case to higher court can be used in an attempt to intimidate you into dropping the suit because you now have to go up against a lawyer and paying for your own lawyer will cost more than the amount to be collected. Pro bono lawyers will sometimes work for free, but the old adage "you get what you pay for" really does often ring true.

-The breeder may agree to return your money in court (mine did) and you still may never see that money (I didn't). Breeders know it will cost you in time and money to try to collect and are hoping you won't.

-If you do go to court, prepare for some type of counter suit...it is the breeder's way of trying to get you to drop your suit. Defamation of character is a popular choice. Check to see if your state has slapp suit laws...those will protect you if it does go to court. Also, try to find other people who have also had negative experiences with this breeder. 

-Having taken a breeder to court, would I do it again? Probably not. While I hate to see other people have bad run ins with this breeder as well (and I know of two others who have had bad experiences), I don't know that all the time I put into trying to get my money back was worth it. It stinks because breeders can treat you unfairly and apparently get away with it. However, you have to remember that in the long run these people's actions will ruin their own reputations. Sounds like your breeder is well on her way! 

Good luck!


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Yeah I have considered taking it to small claims court, but I will do the BBB before that to avoid paying. My breeder friend has an attorney that she says will talk with me and write an official letter for very little money, if not for free. The "breeder" did say she would slap me with a defamation of character lawsuit if I said anything however those only hold up if there is no proof that what I am saying is the truth and I have all of our communications for the past year, including where she says that she refunds deposits if she can't produce a pup from "said litter". So she could try to sue me but she would lose lol.
And as far as a lesson learned...what kind of lesson is to be learned...don't give deposits? I don't understand that logic, sorry. You can't learn anything from this besides don't trust anyone, ever lol.


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## Jd414 (Aug 21, 2012)

What breeder?

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Jd414 said:


> What breeder?
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Message me please, I don't think we are allowed to give that info on the forum. I think it would be considered breeder bashing.


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## Kejasa (Jul 8, 2012)

I also wanted to mention that basic contract law says that in the case of a breach of contract the parties will be returned to their position before the contract....so you should get your money back. Yes, it is true that your breeder's claim of defamation will not hold water in court, but she will still probably try to counter sue to intimidate and harass you. Court is just a big circus sometimes.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Yeah she is very good at intimadation and harassing So I wouldn't hold it past her to try to counter sue me. And I really really don't want it to end up in court, which is why I will take a 50% hit if she does actually give back the $200. But I am not someone that takes stuff lying down lol. I'm kinda stubborn hehe. I just hope she gives back at least part. I just don't want to deal with her insanity anymore Thanks for the input!!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The lesson is to do better research and have a little more contact with a person before sending them $400. It's mostly don't trust most people and has little to do with them being breeders. There are very few items in this world that we purchase/pay for before we get to see them or have them in our hands. Those that we do have to put a deposit down on are generally very big ticket items and the deposit is meant as a safe guard for the seller not the buyer. Buying dogs for some reason has turned into a "deposit to hold your spot in line."

I know you don't want to hear it, but next time find a breeder that doesn't take a deposit until the pups are on the ground. Develop a relationship with the breeder that they'll trust you enough to WANT you to own one of their pups and will therefore keep a spot in line for you without any money. Go to a breeder that isn't worried about you backing out because if you do, someone else will buy that puppy in a heart beat. I was in line for a puppy (perfect timing for me) for a year. First breeding didn't have any females, skipped a heat, now the second breeding just happened. By the time the second breeding happened the breeder had a dog returned to them from a previous litter. Good friends of mine, and without hesitation they offered me that female. They could care less that now "my puppy" is going to have to find another buyer because they'll easily find one. I'm happy because I got an extremely high quality dog for free.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

See, here's the thing...I'd been in contact with this breeder for a year, maybe longer. She and I had lots of chats, talked about dogs and what I wanted. Meanwhile I was looking at other kennels, but came back to her dogs cause I loved her dogs. We were facebook friends so I got to see what her dogs were doing daily and knew about her lifestyle. I had no inclination after being in contact with her for so long that she was going to take my money and run like she did. It's not really a matter of "not wanting to hear it" it's a matter of I don't feel that it's necessary when someone gets completely screwed over and feels horrible to tell them, lesson learned. If I hadn't wanted peoples help, I wouldn't have posted, but sometimes it's not good to hear, lesson learned, when the only lesson a person could learn from this is don't go to this breeder. Sorry. I am upset and I'm not sure how to take what you are saying other than to think you are saying I am an idiot for giving a deposit :crazy:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't think you're an idiot at all. I don't think anyone should put a deposit down before the puppies are on the ground. I think that breeders that give you the option of transferring that deposit to another litter (a future one from the same dog) are holding on to a lot of money. In your case it was $400...that's way more money than I would want someone to hold on to for any period of time.

Let me put it this way. I probably went to a way worse breeder than this one is. My dog cost me $500 total. But even that breeder received the deposit ($100) only after the pups were on the ground, and I had picked one out. At that point, I knew that I was getting the dog in 4 weeks when the balance would be due. That type of deposit IMO is different than the one that's there to "hold your place" in line. The breeder that takes a deposit on pups that are already on the ground, is protecting themselves from a person backing out at the last second and being stuck with a less marketable puppy that is now older than 8 weeks old (the typical age someone wants to bring a pup home). A breeder that is collecting deposits on puppies that haven't been born, or haven't been confirmed, is just collecting money to fund their program.

I guess I see it as, I put a deposit down on an actual dog. You put your deposit down on the possibility of a dog. Clearly...the breeder didn't trust you enough to know that you won't back out of the purchase while waiting for the pups to be born.

I guess the main thing is, I suggest you look for a breeder that doesn't take deposits until a litter is on the ground, they're not that hard to find. Like the breeder I was going to get a pup from...I was "in line" for second female. I didn't have to shell out a dime until the litter was born. Actually, I'm sure they wouldn't have taken anything from me until payment was due for the dog anyways. There was no need for them to collect money from me to guarantee I'm taking one of their dogs.


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## Kejasa (Jul 8, 2012)

Well there are always could have, should have, would haves after a transaction has gone wrong. However, the bottom line is that the breeder made a promise to the OP and the OP took the breeder for her word. When the breeder didn't come through on her end of the contract, the breeder was at fault...not the OP. Facebook messages are considered a contract. The OP has a very good case in my opinion...I'm just not sure it is worth pursuing in court. Hopefully the BBB will be able to work out a satisfactory solution.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Okay, I get what you are saying Martemchik but when you want first pick female and the breeder had been selling the previous litters before they were born, you tend to want to put money down to assure you're getting a pup. But I do understand and in the future I will be more cautious.
And thank you Kejasa, it is so true, hindsight is 20/20. And when you are promised something and you give someone money, they should follow through the best they can. It is about integrity and this person has none. I would never have people give me a deposit on a pup and not return it if it was me that changed the name of the game. I understand taking deposits as non refundable if the person that asked for a pup backed out. However if the breeder backs out, the puppy buyer should get the money back. If, and this is true in my case, you put money down on a dog you better know for sure you are going to buy a pup and if you change your mind, then you are out the deposit. If you are not sure that in four months you can take a pup, don't give a deposit, simple as that. But I knew that in that amount of time I would be in the perfect place for a pup so I knew that when sending the money I wasn't going to back out but never thought she would lol:crazy:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

One more piece of advice...don't worry about "pick female." Unless you're planning on showing this dog, it doesn't matter. What you want, is a spot in line that would "guarantee" you a puppy. You want the dog that will fit you and your lifestyle. Not just the best looking one at 8 weeks old.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Ah, I know but I wanted a show, SAR capable, breeding quality female...hence first pick.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you want SAR capable, wouldnt' you be better off with a working line that has produced SAR dogs with good hunt drive?


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I think the idea of not putting a deposit until the puppies are born is a bit idealistic. I have been looking at various breeders, probably 10 or more and out of those, I recall only one saying they don't take a deposit until the puppies are on the ground and only one saying that the deposit is refundable. I chose to go with a breeder that required a deposit (non refundable). This breeder has no trouble selling her puppies, and every litter is sold prior to birth. I was ok with this given that I know she has a supper reputation and is known for placing the right dog in the right home. After all, her contract stated that if the bitch didn't get pregnant, my deposit would be moved to the next litter, or if the right puppy wasn't available, same thing would happen. 

Getting 50% is better than nothing, but obviously this breeder is in the wrong and knows it. Get the 50%, then go to small claims for the rest (if feasible logistically). 

.


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## BriskaBoo13 (Aug 20, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> If you want SAR capable, wouldnt' you be better off with a working line that has produced SAR dogs with good hunt drive?


 
Some of her dogs were working SAR dogs, so I wasn't worried. But yes, after she screwed me, I did get a working line pup.


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