# Guard dog!



## banjo's_mama! (Aug 27, 2013)

I want to know when & how my husband and I should teach our fur baby to be a guard dog. He's 8 weeks old... I know he's still pretty young but my husband is is the navy and is gone a lot. I want him to be very protective and alert.! What should I be doing to train him? 
Thank you! 


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Shepherds don't fully develop their protective drives until they're at least 2 yrs old (I believe that's the correct age? I know they must be fully matured). Even then, not every shepherd has the proper temperament to be a "guard dog" or a "protection dog." 
You can start visiting local SchH clubs, or start talking to a protection dog trainer now, though. If you're lucky one will be willing to do a "courage test" to see if your pup will grow up to have the necessary temperament to be trained for protection. This training can start early (not sure how early exactly... Another member will likely know the answer). But the puppy won't really have any way or training to actually protect you.


You CAN teach your pup to bark on command. My female has 2 different "speak" commands. My male is learning them (he's eight weeks as well). For a higher-pitched, normal bark I say "speak." Simple. If I, for any reason, feel the need to get her to use a more intimidating bark with a protective tone I say "protect." This causes her to bark lowly, head lowered to her shoulders, hackles raised, with some growling and bared teeth.

But remember. It is your job to protect your dog just as much as you expect him to protect you. I would never use Koda's protection command if I believed a person had a weapon (like a gun) because if they were determined to get to me, they would just shoot her first. And I could never forgive myself for that.


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## Harbud (Aug 27, 2013)

Many people find the breed intimidating already, my Ozzy wouldn't do a darn thing to protect me lol but people still cross the street to avoid us. Finding a local SchH club is a great suggestion so you can be guided by experienced people.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Right now you should be working on basic obedience and socialization. Any natural protectiveness will start to emerge as he matures. Unless you want him to actually protect you and not just be a deterrent with his physical presence and by alert barking, you won't need any special training. 

Socialization to a variety of people/places/things in a positive way (he should clearly be calm, happy, and inquisitive, not fearful or intimidated in order for the experiences to be positive) will help him discriminate between what's normal and what's a threat, so that's really important.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

socialize him and train him appropriately. He'll either be protective or he won't. But socialize him properly so he learns to distinguish who is good and who isn't. They also learn to read you. And yes, he's definitely too young. Any reactions now would most definitely be fear based. Simply having a GSD is usually enough of a deterrent. 

I know the desire very well. My husband was at training when someone kicked in our backdoor. My older female went after the guy and I NEVER expected her to. Her job was simply to alert me to possible trouble. Where are you stationed?


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## kelseycub (Aug 1, 2013)

My boyfriend jokes that we should teach our shepherd to speak with another word. So instead of saying speak we would say attack, or something to potentially frighten off anyone who tried to harm us. We dont live in the best neighborhood and he fears someone would try to rob us or take her from me one day, cause shes so darn sweet. But boy, is her bark furious.  She is very protective of our yard, and alert, and barks at passers by. Its my understanding that that what youre describing is a natural quality that /most/ shepherds will develop on their own. Honestly, most people are fearful of her regardless of her personality. They dont know that secretly shes a submissive baby who whines when I rub her tummy. Goodluck!


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

Some dogs are not cut out for this type of work, hopefully yours is. First off you should work on obedience and socialization. Whenever he alert barks, always encourage it and praise him for it. Praise and encourage any other actions you see as a positive, such as raising cain at someone at the door. There is a fine line between a great guard/protection dog and a dangerous dog. Your dog has to be able to make friends on command. If you want him to flat out attack anyone breaking into your home, I recommend Lew Burke's dog training book, see the Bark on Command section, page 91. It's up to you to educate yourself and come to the right conclusions. This is a very brief summary and I am sure some will have a problem with it. With common sense and reading everything you can get your hands on, you can train the right dog to do just about anything.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

What can you say about the bloodlines of your dog. If you have to ask how to teach your puppy to be a guard dog, you shouldn't be doing it.


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## kznny (Nov 29, 2011)

As others have said, even if he is naturally protective you will be waiting awhile for it to manifest. I believe it was Leerburg who said that any human crazy enough to attack you knowing your GSD is there should be shot because that is the only way you will stop them. Our GSD Rico is the friendliest, kindest soul who loves EVERYBODY. However when my wife walks with him, people move out of the way. 

My brother is a martial arts instructor who lives out of state and visits infrequently. One time he came over and we purposely started yelling at each other and tussling to see what Rico would do. As we started yelling Rico became very alert. When we started wrestling he started barking, and when my brother got the upperhand on me Rico charged him (we were prepared and had help!). I was quite surprised to see this reaction in Rico as I really thought he would either ignore us or just bark. My point is that once dogs are properly socialized they will know when a bad situation when they see one, although how they will actually respond without the training is anyone's guess. 

Also, on subsequent visits after that test Rico is very friendly with my brother and showed no signs of treating him differently.


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## battleborn (Jan 23, 2013)

Chip Blasiole said:


> What can you say about the bloodlines of your dog. If you have to ask how to teach your puppy to be a guard dog, you shouldn't be doing it.


Well that was helpful.  Last I checked the forum was for asking questions. Nothing wrong with that. And (not that I'm an expert) but I think most would agree that temperament is more important than bloodlines here. 

To the OP...my boy is almost 9 months and like you, I'm interested in finding out more about it. I plan to attend some local schutzhund classes without my pup so I can see what they're like and what the instructors are like. 

This isn't something I would teach entirely by myself, as it's potentially dangerous if done wrong. And I may decide not to do it at all, depending on the eventual evaluation of my dog and the level of commitment needed. It's far more important to me that my dog be well behaved and a good breed representative in public, and his already apparent protective instincts will take care of the rest. But I certainly relate to the interest in it. There's probably a local Schutzhund club or trainer that will let you check it out!


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## howlk9 (Jan 29, 2012)

Chip Blasiole said:


> If you have to ask how to teach your puppy to be a guard dog, you shouldn't be doing it.


 That is so true. If you want a guard dog and don't know the right way to go about training, get help. You don't want to end up with a dog at 2 or 3 that can be a danger to yourself, your husband when he returns from the Navy, neighbors, and your children and/or their friends. Beginning now, obedience and control are the two most important things you can start thinking about. I'm not saying don't do it, but get help to do it right, meaning more than advice from some internet chat board. Get out to your local Sch clubs or contact trainers who specifically know how to do this. (Not all do, no matter what they tell you. And on that note, be sure that the way they train is ok with your personal philosophy.) Failing at this kind of thing can have more dire consequences than if you fail at teaching your dog to heel. It can end up with them getting put down if you don't do it right.


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## mcmike73 (Nov 20, 2012)

I may have misinterpreted the "2 years old before you know" comment, but I disagree. My female is just over a year old and at 8 months she wouldn't bark unless something wasn't right. Over the last four months, she has progressed into quite the "guard dog".
I live on a main road in town. I have a large glass front door where she lays and watches. If someone is across the street, she sits at attention and watches. If they cross the street, she wimpers. If they come into my yard (city sidewalk crosses my yard) She gives them the "HEY" bark while standing on her back legs with her front paws on the door. FYI the "HEY" bark is like no ther bark she has. She never growls or shows her teeth, but no closer than people get, they couldn't see that anyway. LOL


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

Lots of play with your pup, tugging on a rag etc. Here are some videos to watch, obviously these videos are specific for experienced trainers but it will give you some ideas.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfWkn7ykgs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4BbTGvGmzE


Kim


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Our dog comes from working stock, she has been very vocal and protective since the day we got her at 8 weeks. She is super protective of our car, home and me when I'm at our office. She can also be a sweetheart, I recently posted pics of her at Giants baseball game with over 40,000 people there for the "dog days" event and she was nice to everyone. She had no training to be protective, but lots of training to be nice.
Our breeder was into protection and some dogs were used as police dogs.

Some GSD owners I've met that have showlines do not feel their dog is protective. So I think you should find out your pup's parents temperament, and is it working or show stock. Our former breeder usually waited until the dogs were fairly matured, say 12 months or older before he would do protection, and I would definitely seek a professional trainer to help.


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

Everyone will have a different idea of what a Personal Protection/Family Guard dog is, most people are happy if their dog barks when someone comes around the house.

Figure out what you want, and what best suits your lifestyle. There are liabilities to owning any dog, let alone a trained one.

If you want to bite work with your dog, you have to start the tug/rag game with the puppy ASAP. Then find a trainer who does either Personal Protection/PSA work,* not Schutzhund, because it is sport work.*

Before you enlist the help of ANY Trainer, do extensive research, a bad trainer.....(and there are more bad ones than good ones) can screw up your pup/dog with little effort.

Kim


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## NTexFoster (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm in the just alert me crowd. All of my dogs bark whenever somebody comes up the drive way or is around the backyard fence. That's all I need. Me and my various unpleasant toys and training will address anything else should it be necessary.


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

I would not self train a protection dog without an experienced trainer. Just my opinion. I would want my dog evaluated by a trainer to make sure he/she has the mental makeup to be able to handle this kind of thing.

I've heard more than once a trained dog is the equivilent to having a gun. Meaning they can be as deadly. You want to make sure you will have full control of that dog at all times.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

A guard dog is born, not made. Training will not make a dog something that its DNA hasn't programed it to be. The first step in getting a guard dog is picking out a puppy that is protective by nature. This is a trait that can often be seen at a very early age. Many years ago, I had two very protective German Shepherds that I got as puppies and I picked them out myself because I wanted that type of dog. They matured into highly protective dogs and were even capable of killing. 
However, be aware that having this kind of dog carries with it very much responsibility. Dogs this protective will allow no one on your property and this includes your friends, your relatives, and even your grandkids. Going to the vet with them can also be a challenge. Fortunately, my vet had worked with dogs like mine when he was in the army and he knew to let me be the handler and to let me bring them when no one else was there. Dogs like this just don't fit into the lifestyle of most people and I gave this matter much thought before I even looked for a puppy. However, I did fine with them and felt very safe when I had these two dogs, but I also kept them securely contained and had a safe place to put them if anyone came to the house which was rare. Not all German Shepherds will be this protective, but if yours is, the responsibility rests upon your shoulders. 
I had my two extra protective Shepherds for many years and they both passed away of age related natural causes at ages 12 1/2 and 14 yrs. They were the love of my life, but I did have a lifestyle that was compatible with having them. Those were my first two German Shepherds and I've not been without one since.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

^^imo that's not protective, that's out of control. I might be wrong but the way I see a good protection dog is a highly trained dog that will protect on command. I don't think dogs should ever be making a decision on when to protect. 

I do realize that there might be situations where you can't give a command but to me it sounds like a liability to have a dog assess situations and decide on when to attack. 

And even if they do get to decide if they see you getting attacked and you can't give a command, having a dog that's so vicious that it can't be around anyone and must have special handling at the vet seems out of control, not protective. Who is it protecting at the vet and all these hours in the day every day when there are no real threats?

JMO as usual


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## MajorGermanShepherds (Mar 19, 2013)

banjo's_mama! said:


> I want to know when & how my husband and I should teach our fur baby to be a guard dog. He's 8 weeks old... I know he's still pretty young but my husband is is the navy and is gone a lot. I want him to be very protective and alert.! What should I be doing to train him?
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


There are several "types" of guard dogs, as well as many ways to have your dog trained, and what sort of guarding you would prefer your fur baby to do. Best to know the temperament your dog has, review the history or training accomplished by his parents/grandparents, along with this current attitude all come into play in choosing the "proper trainer" or "training" for your dog. You can review my site for further explanations (cause its lengthy) of guard dogs, as I breed selectively for what I call a "natural" guard dog (Major German Shepherds dot) However training practices differ alot with each trainer, even thou they maybe training for the exact same result. I think once you know more about your dog you will know the sort of training he will need to become the best dog you wanted for the type of guarding you prefer. You can learn alot about your dog by enrolling in a basic dog obedience training class, I suggest to start to enroll in one that has positive re-enforcements until you know more about your particular dog. (like ones in the big pet supply chains) and he will benefit from the socialization (as long as it is positive).
There are other things one can do to evaluate your dog for guarding training, but I have already typed alot. Great you are asking, just keep learning, yourself and your dog, its alot of fun :wub:aw: GSD are the BEST!


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*Protectiveness does not equal vicious*



lalachka said:


> ^^imo that's not protective, that's out of control. I might be wrong but the way I see a good protection dog is a highly trained dog that will protect on command. I don't think dogs should ever be making a decision on when to protect.
> 
> I do realize that there might be situations where you can't give a command but to me it sounds like a liability to have a dog assess situations and decide on when to attack.
> 
> ...



A highly protective dog is not a vicious dog. A truly vicious dog will attack anyone, including it's owner. Many people have dogs so that those dogs can protect homes or businesses from would-be burglars when there is no one there to issue out orders. A dog that will protect only on command would have very limited use for most people. Gosh, if I was there to issue out orders, I'd just grab my Colt .45 and settle it on the spot and settle it fast which I have done when I was nearly broken into by two ARMED would be burglars. People have the right to protect themselves and their property and I also believe it's their responsibility to not sit there helpless. I also took defensive shooting classes and was a member at a shooting range where I diligently and regularly practiced. All women are NOT the "helpless" female types. 
My Vet had me to bring my dogs to his clinic when no one was there because of the possibility of out of control kids running over to pet the "doggie" because their parents miserably failed to teach them not to run at strange dogs or to have any other manners as far as that goes. A dog cannot tell if a wild out of control kid charging at them is going to harm them or not and in fact, neither do I know. All dogs aren't mind readers like Lassie and I'm sure not one. Read the news, kids kill just as viciously as adults. 
I did obtain legal advice from an attorney who passed the bar. Did you? I kept my dogs in a manner that protected me from any liability. We just don't live in a safe world anymore. If you don't look out for your own safety, it probably won't get done.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I was told by several dog people i respect that a good guard dog is born not made as well. However i disagree with you that such a dog cannot be take in public or allowed around visitors. This is a training issue or a nerve issue imo.

I have a pup right now similar to what you are describing and she is being exposed to every stimuli and environment possible. It wont change what she fundamentally is but will hopefully help teach her to discern what is and is not a threat. Genetics and training are both important imo.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*Dog was exactly what I wanted!*



Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I was told by several dog people i respect that a good guard dog is born not made as well. However i disagree with you that such a dog cannot be take in public or allowed around visitors. This is a training issue or a nerve issue imo.
> 
> I have a pup right now similar to what you are describing and she is being exposed to every stimuli and environment possible. It wont change what she fundamentally is but will hopefully help teach her to discern what is and is not a threat. Genetics and training are both important imo.


I hand picked these two highly protective Shepherds from the breeder to be EXACTLY what I wanted them to be - very highly protective. I got what I wanted. It was not an unexpected surprise. And, yes this can be done at an early age for this type of dog. I picked out my first puppy at age five weeks. She was one of the runts of the litter, but I knew that I was looking at the biggest dog there - big in protectiveness, not in size and she didn't disappoint me. At that time, I lived in a bad area in a big city where drugs, shootings and other violent crime were rampant and I mean within eyesight of me. I had NO good visitors. These two dogs would NOT take a bribe no matter what a stranger tried to entice them with. Everyone is NOT looking for the kind of dog that you are looking for. There are all different levels of protectiveness in dogs and people need to be aware of what they're getting before they bring the puppy home. People have the right to defend themselves. I've been the victim of crime and I absolutely never intend to sit there helpless to do anything about it again. As fast as a dog can run and make an attack, I've got six plus one with backup that can outrun any dog. People who take responsibility for their own safety should be commended. Maybe that's why I'm still alive. 
I was able to get out of that bad neighborhood and now live in a totally different state. Both of my highly protective dogs lived to ripe old ages and died of natural causes. Much of their needed vet care I was able to do due to my experience in the medical field. These dogs were well cared for, loved and dearly missed. They were my protectors and my companions. We worked together as a solid unit.


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

vseagle said:


> I hand picked these two highly protective Shepherds from the breeder to be EXACTLY what I wanted them to be - very highly protective. I got what I wanted. It was not an unexpected surprise. And, yes this can be done at an early age for this type of dog. I picked out my first puppy at age five weeks. She was one of the runts of the litter, but I knew that I was looking at the biggest dog there - big in protectiveness, not in size and she didn't disappoint me. At that time, I lived in a bad area in a big city where drugs, shootings and other violent crime were rampant and I mean within eyesight of me. I had NO good visitors. These two dogs would NOT take a bribe no matter what a stranger tried to entice them with. Everyone is NOT looking for the kind of dog that you are looking for. There are all different levels of protectiveness in dogs and people need to be aware of what they're getting before they bring the puppy home. People have the right to defend themselves. I've been the victim of crime and I absolutely never intend to sit there helpless to do anything about it again. As fast as a dog can run and make an attack, I've got six plus one with backup that can outrun any dog. People who take responsibility for their own safety should be commended. Maybe that's why I'm still alive.
> I was able to get out of that bad neighborhood and now live in a totally different state. Both of my highly protective dogs lived to ripe old ages and died of natural causes. Much of their needed vet care I was able to do due to my experience in the medical field. These dogs were well cared for, loved and dearly missed. They were my protectors and my companions. We worked together as a solid unit.


Im sorry but everything that you have said leads me to conclude that you did not have two "very highly protective dogs" but aggressive dogs. Your dogs made the decisions who to act aggressively towards and you had to lock them in another room or something if you had people over.. that is NOT protectiveness that is aggressiveness. You should have been able to have anyone over at any time without locking your dogs away, a true protection dog is good with everyone, given a command then yes they will do what they were trained to do either attack or bark or whatever the case... Of course there are scenarios in which they would have to make a decision. But your dogs sound like they were out of control which YOU saw as being protective. JMHO


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

vseagle said:


> I hand picked these two highly protective Shepherds from the breeder to be EXACTLY what I wanted them to be - very highly protective. I got what I wanted. It was not an unexpected surprise. And, yes this can be done at an early age for this type of dog. I picked out my first puppy at age five weeks. She was one of the runts of the litter, but I knew that I was looking at the biggest dog there - big in protectiveness, not in size and she didn't disappoint me. At that time, I lived in a bad area in a big city where drugs, shootings and other violent crime were rampant and I mean within eyesight of me. I had NO good visitors. These two dogs would NOT take a bribe no matter what a stranger tried to entice them with. Everyone is NOT looking for the kind of dog that you are looking for. There are all different levels of protectiveness in dogs and people need to be aware of what they're getting before they bring the puppy home. People have the right to defend themselves. I've been the victim of crime and I absolutely never intend to sit there helpless to do anything about it again. As fast as a dog can run and make an attack, I've got six plus one with backup that can outrun any dog. People who take responsibility for their own safety should be commended. Maybe that's why I'm still alive.
> I was able to get out of that bad neighborhood and now live in a totally different state. Both of my highly protective dogs lived to ripe old ages and died of natural causes. Much of their needed vet care I was able to do due to my experience in the medical field. These dogs were well cared for, loved and dearly missed. They were my protectors and my companions. We worked together as a solid unit.


We can agree to disagree. Ultimately as long as you were happy and they fulfilled the role they were purchased to provide alls well that ends well.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

" I don't think a German Shepherd should ever make a decision to protect on their own"...... As long as you are not a breeder, that comment doesn't bother me. But hopefully breeders know that one of the inherent strengths of this breed is their discernment of when to use ALL the abilities in the standard.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*!*



mandiah89 said:


> Im sorry but everything that you have said leads me to conclude that you did not have two "very highly protective dogs" but aggressive dogs. Your dogs made the decisions who to act aggressively towards and you had to lock them in another room or something if you had people over.. that is NOT protectiveness that is aggressiveness. You should have been able to have anyone over at any time without locking your dogs away, a true protection dog is good with everyone, given a command then yes they will do what they were trained to do either attack or bark or whatever the case... Of course there are scenarios in which they would have to make a decision. But your dogs sound like they were out of control which YOU saw as being protective. JMHO


My veterinarian who saw these dogs for many years very strongly told me that my dogs were HIGHLY protective, and definitely not mean or vicious. He also told me that if these two dogs were not with me or not on their own property, that that would not bother anyone. They were protective of what was "theirs". This vet was experienced in working with dogs like mine when he was in the army and is qualified to give a professional, expert opinion. That a protective dog will show aggression in order to be protective is common sense. I wanted man-stoppers. I worked with a breeder of protective dogs to achieve this. This was the type of dog I was looking for and I realize that this type of dog will not fit into most peoples lifestyle. However, people do need to know that a Shepherd can be like this when they mature even with a great deal of socialization from early on. DNA produces a man-stopper, breeding is absolutely everything. I went to puppy school and later on joined a Shutzund club, but it was DNA that determined the protection level of the dogs I had. My only intention of bringing this up was to caution people to take the selection of a puppy seriously and be very informed of the traits the breeder was breeding for. 
Furthermore, I didn't "have" people over. I am not social just for the sake of being social. The only outsiders that come to my home are there for business purposes such as to repair an appliance, etc. The dogs I have now are alarm dogs and are not man-stoppers like my previous Shepherds were. However, I confine my current dogs to the back yard just for the convenience of not having them underfoot if anyone needs to come on my property. I would do this no matter how protective or how friendly the dog is. 
Protection dogs come in three levels: Level 1: Alarm dog, Level 2: Threat dog and Level 3: Man stopper. This info is from a book I have on how to select and train a guard dog. It is obvious that a man stopper will show a more serious type of aggressiveness in the way it protects than alarm or threat only dogs. My dogs were not "out of control" when they were doing exactly what I got them to do. I deliberately chose this type of dog from a reputable breeder. 
People who get a dog, usually a Shepherd, for Shutzhund training often think that just because the dog is trained to act a certain way, they are now protected. NOT SO! I am an old Southwestern Book peddler who worked my way thru college selling door-to-door and there was no "pet" Shutzhund trained dog that ever kept me out of their yards. I've had more than one of these so called "protection" dogs reach up and lick my face and they even wanted to go home with me!!!! And you call this a "protection" dog? I hate to be this blunt, but how stupid can you get? They couldn't even stop a 20 year old school girl!!!! A natural protector mutt dog would have been far, far more effective. After the experience I had from encountering HUNDREDS of dogs during the three summers I sold books, I can read dogs very well. That is why I was able to pick out my super protective Shepherds when they were just a few weeks old. I can flat out read dogs.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*A protection dog is little good if it doen't protect*



cliffson1 said:


> " I don't think a German Shepherd should ever make a decision to protect on their own"...... As long as you are not a breeder, that comment doesn't bother me. But hopefully breeders know that one of the inherent strengths of this breed is their discernment of when to use ALL the abilities in the standard.


I wanted man-stoppers due to the high crime/drug dealing/nightly shootings/robberies that was going on where I lived at that time. If you have to order your dog to protect or if your dog can be bribed or be friendly to a friendly burglar, I doubt it does much of a job of effective protecting. I worked my way thru college selling books door-to-door for the Southwestern Co. and I was run at ALL day long by dogs with bared fangs, snarling and charging at me faster than a speeding locomotive. And I mean some big dogs. It is NORMAL for dogs to do this!!! Dogs are by nature pack animals and they are territorial. Normal behavior is NOT bad breeding!!!! Dogs read body language big time and how you react or don't react to charging, snarling dogs plays a major role in what happens next. I did just fine with all of them!!!! In fact, the Shutzhund trained dogs I met were nothing but big pussycats who often reached up and licked my face and some would have gone home with me. I was only a 20 year old school girl and these "trained" attack dogs couldn't even stop a school kid!!! Yeah, you're protected. I'll take my natural born man-stoppers, thank you, along with a cocked and locked .45. Oh, by the way, I live in a small fortress and although I no longer have these two dogs, it would have taken a good bit of effort for anyone to reach where we lived. If anyone did reach us, it was for a no good purpose. I'm not a breeder of any animal and I do not care if any of my pets conform to any breed specifications. I got these dogs intentionally to be what they were based on their DNA. It was NO accident. The only kind of dogs some people need to have come from toys r' us.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

cliffson1 said:


> " I don't think a German Shepherd should ever make a decision to protect on their own"...... As long as you are not a breeder, that comment doesn't bother me. But hopefully breeders know that one of the inherent strengths of this breed is their discernment of when to use ALL the abilities in the standard.


Thought the quote above is not mine I said the same thing in different words. I don't pretend to be right but logically thinking i'd hope this was the case. Lots of times people use too much defense and overreact, I doubt dogs can be trusted with making the right decisions. 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Vseagle, schutzhund is a sport, so that doesn't say anything about the owners stupidity. Or did you mean there were real protection dogs that were ready to lick you and go home with you?


In any case, I don't know if I buy that the dogs are supposed to act this way because they're territorial, a real threat only comes along once in a while, if they're jumping at someone and baring their teeth almost every day then i'd say there's a problem. 

I have a dog that does this. He also doesn't do this to all people but some, so am I to believe that he senses something from the ones he does this to?

I don't, IMO he has issues. There are no threats to me or him, 99% of the time people don't even see him until he's in their face. They most definitely weren't a threat to him or me. 

In any case, as someone said, as long as you got what uu were looking for and was happy with it then that's all that matters. 




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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*Owners intention was protection*



lalachka said:


> Vseagle, schutzhund is a sport, so that doesn't say anything about the owners stupidity. Or did you mean there were real protection dogs that were ready to lick you and go home with you?
> 
> 
> In any case, I don't know if I buy that the dogs are supposed to act this way because they're territorial, a real threat only comes along once in a while, if they're jumping at someone and baring their teeth almost every day then i'd say there's a problem.
> ...


What I meant was that people had gotten these dogs for the purpose of protecting their property when they were not at home. Their purpose was protection, not sport. I personally knew someone who had a Shutzhund trained Shepherd that would allow no one on their property. Now, I do realize that this does not meet your idea of what these dogs are for or how they should acceptably behave nor would this dog meet breed standards, but it met the needs of these people and that is what matters, NOT breed standards or some sport. These people were not breeders, they were people who needed real protection. 
Back when I sold books in college, I hit a lot of doors working eighty hours or more a week and almost all dogs will charge you. Yes, it's normal, at least it was 40 plus years ago and I thought nothing of it. We have become so dog-o-phobic with all the media hype to the point that only a dog from toys r' us is acceptable anymore. 
The parents of the two dogs that I had would allow NO ONE on the owner's property unless they were at home. Once the power company came on their property when the owner was not there and the dogs jumped the fence and attacked them. The power company had been warned about this because of the presence of property protection dogs. This was the breeder I chose. Property protection dogs are about the most dangerous dogs there are but they are also very effective at what they do.
The only reason I even brought any of this up is to stress the importance of choosing the right breeder for the kind of dog you want. There are too many dogs, many purebreds, that end up in shelters because people did not carefully select the right breeder. Sometimes in the case of getting a guard dog, the dog is far too protective than what they wanted and won't allow anyone on the property except immediate family members. Sometimes the dog turns out to be a dud as far as protecting goes and so off it goes to the pound. People need to wisely choose the right breeder so the dog won't be the one to pay the price for THEIR ignorance. DNA rules. 
If you want to criticize somebody, you need to criticize the people who jump into dog ownership without doing all the research that I did and then they end up with a dog that gets put down or taken to the pound.
I don't give a hoot if any of my dogs meet "breed" standards or not. I didn't even care what breed these dogs were as long as they were property protection dogs. I am NOT the criminal. I was trying to protect myself from the criminals and I cannot do that effectively with a "play nice" approach. With deadly crime escalating the way it is, I can't blame anyone or criticize them for wanting to protect themselves and their families and doing what it takes to achieve this goal. Responsibility is the name of the game.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

First of all I'm not judging anyone, you included. Second of all, I know nothing of breed standard, I never bred and this is my first dog, so my experience is very limited. 

I'm just saying that IMO a dog that responds to non threats is not the best guard dog. But it's only my opinion as is anything else written here. 


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@lalacha.....I understand your feelings, and I have no problems with them, I just expect different attitudes from Breeders, who should know the standard which says these dogs are protectors and guardians. Doesn't mean they all are, but their ability to discern when to use these qualities and when not is the reason the breed has the legacy it has.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*Sorry for the boo boo.*



lalachka said:


> Thought the quote above is not mine I said the same thing in different words. I don't pretend to be right but logically thinking i'd hope this was the case. Lots of times people use too much defense and overreact, I doubt dogs can be trusted with making the right decisions.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I accidently clicked wrong. No, dogs do not always make the right decision and they're not supposed to, only Lassie could do that. None of the rest of us mere mortals ever could either. A property protection dog needs to be kept so that people cannot just casually meander onto the property. I had a six foot fence up and still do, the property was posted and the gate padlocked so no one could accidentally or casually enter the property. Trespassing had to be intentionally done and with considerable effort. Any time you enter private property, you do so at your own risk, posted/fenced or not. 
My dogs were responsibly cared for and stayed where I was at, in the house or outside, wherever I went, they followed. We slept together, ate together and lived life together. The dog owner to call out on the carpet is the one who didn't do the research that I did and got a dog that they didn't know what to do with when it turned out to be the wrong dog for them. So, their dog ends up paying the price for their ignorance and is put down or abandoned at the pound. I should be commended for being informed and responsible enough of a person to have made the right decision for me, not you, not somebody else, but ME.
In sharing my dog experiences I only wanted to stress the importance of selecting the right breeder for the kind of dog desired so that hopefully I could prevent at least some dogs from being taken to shelters due to the misjudgement of their owners in selecting a puppy. I am NOT in that category and should not be treated like a criminal for being a responsible dog owner even if my dog isn't the one you would have selected. I looked deep before I leaped and have NO REGRETS. I got the dogs I wanted for what I wanted and we were all happy for their entire long lives. Me and my current dogs and cats are happy too. I'm also a cat person with six of them now since I recently took in a little stray. Yep, even my big mean, vicious attack dogs do absolutely wonderful with cats, even newborn kittens. I trained them. They're as good as gold.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

cliffson1 said:


> @lalacha.....I understand your feelings, and I have no problems with them, I just expect different attitudes from Breeders, who should know the standard which says these dogs are protectors and guardians. Doesn't mean they all are, but their ability to discern when to use these qualities and when not is the reason the breed has the legacy it has.


This is not a feelings issue, it is a protection from crime issue. I know what it is like to live in crime city with nightly gunfire within a hundred feet of my home and drug dealing like you'd never believe. And, I remember when I felt helpless against protecting myself. I was scared to death of guns and a protection dog was something I'd never even remotely dreamed of ever having. Until, that is, I became the victim of crime. I'm no longer a liberal minded social worker. I overcame my fear of guns and I now shoot a .45 and as well as a rifle and big dogs don't scare this gal any! 
The breeder I got my "attack" dogs from had very, very protective dogs who would attack anyone who came onto his property if he wasn't at home. This was my breeder of choice for the type of protection I was looking for - property protection dogs. No dog can use precise judgement as any burglar who has dog savvy can just make friends with your dog and bingo! he's in your house, no problem. In fact this is common. If someone wants to rob your house, they come around it over a period of time, make friends with your dog and now the dog knows him and likes him and won't even bark a warning. You're now a sitting duck. Yes, this happens. Unfortunately, criminals do not dress up like the devil with horns and a pitchfork so we'll know who they are and recognize them as a threat. My several years of experience of living in a crime war zone has taught me that the ONLY effective guard dog is one who will trust NO one but their handler, period, end of sentence. 
All breeders are not going to breed for the purpose of upholding breed standards out of a book. Some will bred for high protection, something that's actually useful. And my vet specifically told me that my dogs were definitely not mean or vicious, but highly protective - his exact words and this is what was recorded on their records at his office. I don't know why this would even matter to anyone but me as I got the dogs I wanted and responsibly kept them. I just wanted people to really consider the breeder they chose before getting a puppy so they'd end up with the dog that they wanted when it was grown. Look deep before you leap, know what you're getting.


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## battleborn (Jan 23, 2013)

Just my opinion, but none of this relates to the OP's question.

They have a young puppy already and were just looking for input on training.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The OP doesn't have the skills to train a guard dog and doesn't know if the dog has the genetics to be a guard dog.
To follow up on vseagle's comments, social aggression is being bred out of the protective breeds, because of a litigious society and the protective breeds being marketed to the pet market, largely made up of people who can't manage a high drive, socially aggressive dog. There are plenty of insecure, overly defensive GDSs out there due to poor breeding, but very few with true social aggression, which is the desire to bite anyone outside of the dog's pack. That doesn't include a defensive display of aggressive barking, where the dog is often stressed and trying to chase the threat away.


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*Info applies to possible future puppies*



battleborn said:


> Just my opinion, but none of this relates to the OP's question.
> 
> They have a young puppy already and were just looking for input on training.


People who get one puppy quite often get another one later on. Sometimes this is because the first puppy wasn't what they had hoped for and sometimes it's because their first puppy was what they wanted and they return to the same breeder to hopefully get another one with the same traits. It's best to carefully select your breeder before you get a puppy, but if you've already got a puppy, it can be helpful to know the importance of picking the right breeder should you decide to get another one. When I went to puppy school back over 20 years ago, almost everyone there had gotten Shepherd puppies for protection/guard dogs. When the class instructor had a stranger approach our group, my puppy at age four months was the ONLY one who sounded an alarm. The instructor commented that this is exactly what a German Shepherd is supposed to do. There were several disappointed puppy owners that day. Of course, these puppies had a lot more maturing to do, but at the same time, perhaps more consideration given to the choice of breeder could have been helpful. Look before you leap!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think the OP may have flown the coop


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

@ vseagles.....are you FAMILAR with Larry and Anna Parker in Alabama. I did some training with them in late seventies when they first came to Ala. from Germany and bought some nice dogs with them. Just curious?


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## vseagle (Jul 24, 2013)

*The Parkers in Alabama*



cliffson1 said:


> @ vseagles.....are you FAMILAR with Larry and Anna Parker in Alabama. I did some training with them in late seventies when they first came to Ala. from Germany and bought some nice dogs with them. Just curious?


Nope, I've not heard of them. There's a lot of Parkers in this area where I live and so I asked my neighbor who has lived here all her life and she's never heard of them either. They must be in a different part of Alabama. I bet they had some really great dogs. The mother of my first two Shepherds was a German import. 
I've not dealt with a breeder since I got my first two Shepherds back in the 1980's. Two of my dogs that I have now came from a shelter and one came from the side of the road where she had been put out, still just a puppy. It was so sad. She sat there and looked at every car that passed by for hours, hoping that her family would come back for her. She wouldn't even come to me for food and to this day, she won't take food out of my hand. Finally she gave up hope and let me get her and bring her home. She's nine years old now. At least her story had a happy ending.


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## mightyschwartz (Aug 12, 2013)

My dog is currently 8 months old and was bred from a working line. She was INCREDIBLY stubborn at first... and she definitely knows what's up with regard to alerting. She scared the **** out of one of our kids that had creeped out of bed and down towards our room in the middle of the night recently, but the idea of not being able to take her anywhere without her going buck wild on people is just silly to me.

She will walk up the block, she will play nice with other dogs, she will allow children to pet her if she sits and is calm first... these are simple expectations to have.


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

kelseycub said:


> My boyfriend jokes that we should teach our shepherd to speak with another word. So instead of saying speak we would say attack, or something to potentially frighten off anyone who tried to harm us. We dont live in the best neighborhood and he fears someone would try to rob us or take her from me one day, cause shes so darn sweet. But boy, is her bark furious.  She is very protective of our yard, and alert, and barks at passers by. Its my understanding that that what youre describing is a natural quality that /most/ shepherds will develop on their own. Honestly, most people are fearful of her regardless of her personality. They dont know that secretly shes a submissive baby who whines when I rub her tummy. Goodluck!


we use passof or however its spelled, which sounds a bit more like...



mightyschwartz said:


> My dog is currently 8 months old and was bred from a working line. She was INCREDIBLY stubborn at first... and she definitely knows what's up with regard to alerting. She scared the **** out of one of our kids that had creeped out of bed and down towards our room in the middle of the night recently, but the idea of not being able to take her anywhere without her going buck wild on people is just silly to me.
> 
> She will walk up the block, she will play nice with other dogs, she will allow children to pet her if she sits and is calm first... these are simple expectations to have.


I agree it shocks even me sometimes. I just moved from a pretty nasty area back to DFW. Before the move back there was constantly a problem with people jumping my fence from the abandoned house next door. I had a few friends over and all the sudden Heidi jumped up with an incredibly thunderous bark (about 2yrs of age at the time), that I had never heard before. She can jump up and open the backdoor since you just push it, she did so and charged straight after the guy, She cornered him and did not stop barking until the police showed up and I downed her. The amount of praise she received after that incident nearly killed her I think, she was so proud of herself. That was 1-2 weeks into her actual protection training. I was unsure if she was going to have the nerves of the defensive drive at first, but I was very wrong. She remains an incredibly friendly dog with people, but the moment she suspects something she changes and looks to me for guidance, if I give the passof command the bark is loud, strong, and powerful now, it really is pretty neat.

Start with the fundamentals of bite work, there are several great dvds, look at leerburgs. And work work work on everything. Keep it all nice and fun. If you really want a guard dog, you simply have to keep up with the training and then have it evaluated to see if it is a proper candidate for protection work.

Just be aware...the protection training is highly addictive (for me at least). To this day, any time I don't have our GSD around (and she isn't even close to the end of her training) I do feel a little on edge around the house at night.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

cliffson1 said:


> " I don't think a German Shepherd should ever make a decision to protect on their own"...... As long as you are not a breeder, that comment doesn't bother me. But hopefully breeders know that one of the inherent strengths of this breed is their discernment of when to use ALL the abilities in the standard.


 Yes, I completely agree. I am a person who can be easily startled. I have been startled quite a few times but my dog did not react based on my behavior. Every time he already assessed the situation and deemed no danger despite my, honestly, inappropriate reaction. But when a person started moving into my personal space and my dog moved forward in between us and growled I trusted him something was wrong especially given time and place. I want a dog capable of making right decisions.


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## Sergeantsays (Jul 6, 2013)

Pass out as my son would say.... We use passouf for a watch out command. You would b surprised how your dog will react to a bad situation. They are protective by instinct. I taught Sergeant to bark on command using "gib laut" and its nice when people dont know what your saying. 



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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Obviously not the way I did. 

This morning when the guys came to carry away my refrigerator. My fridge -- yeah where the CHEESE is! Jenna and Karma were outside watching the neighbor mow his lawn waiting for me to come on my mower. They did not care a whit that my Fridge was heading out the door with two total strangers. 

Babs gave a half-hearted bark and then trotted back into my bedroom and lay herself on my bed again. I really think she was just letting us know that our noise was disturbing her nap. 

Maybe there is something to chaining them out back, never letting anyone near them, and feeding them gun powder.


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## Sergeantsays (Jul 6, 2013)

*But they had the cheese!*

In her defense, they did have the cheese. She didnt feel the situation warrented a response because you had everything under control. Maybe feed her gunpowder and lead.... I have a cute short video of Sarge barking to his command but I either cant post videos or I cant figure it out which is more like it. Anyway I started when he was young and anytime he barked I told him "goot" and "geib laut" and after a while he connected the two. Also with a hand motion so that I dont have to say it and he can bark by hand motion. Eventually they put it together and bark on command. Comes in handly when someone is at your door selling something. I have done this more than once so I know its not a fluke, and a dog that barks on command stops barking when you tell them. I say zip it..


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I suppose they may have realized I put the cheese in a bag on the stove. They both finally did come in, but neither seemed fussed about two big guys making away with the refrigerator. 

They were happier when I got the mower over to their side of the back lawn. It was like they were just waiting for me. To their credit, I did start the mowing before the guys came, and the neighbor's mower might have sounded like mine. You can't see through the fence, so they probably thought I was safely outside on my mower, so they should be out there too.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

before the puppy how were you guarded? what form of protection
did you use before the puppy? if i wanted a dog for protection i would
find a professional trainer.



banjo's_mama! said:


> I want to know when & how my husband and I should teach our fur baby to be a guard dog. He's 8 weeks old... I know he's still pretty young but my husband is is the navy and is gone a lot. I want him to be very protective and alert.! What should I be doing to train him?
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> before the puppy how were you guarded? what form of protection
> did you use before the puppy? if i wanted a dog for protection i would
> find a professional trainer.


There is more than enough information available in print and on the web for a person of average intelligence with good common sense to train the right dog in guard/protection work. It's been done in Germany for years.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Deno said:


> There is more than enough information available in print and on the web for a person of average intelligence with good common sense to train the right dog in guard/protection work. It's been done in Germany for years.


 

Are you saying that an inexperienced person can just read a book, watch a couple videos and successfully train their dog in protection work? If you are than you are very wrong.


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## Deno (Apr 3, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> Are you saying that an inexperienced person can just read a book, watch a couple videos and successfully train their dog in protection work? If you are than you are very wrong.


You are wrong and I have the dog to prove it. Dex was trained mostly with Lew Bukes's method. It may suprise you, but there are many things that can be learned from experts that write books and make videos.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Deno - please post a video of your dog working. I know you have some as I've seen them posted on another board.


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## AngVi (Dec 22, 2012)

I have two- my girl is 16 months, my boy is 11 months.
They are the sweetest most lovable pups ever! My boy at 90 lbs thinks he is a lap dog. They Love to snuggle up and give kisses.
BUT help anyone who would ever try to come up and hurt us. My Girl sleeps with on eye open, both are always on watch. I don't think it's something you need to teach- mine do it instinctually.
If I'm ok people they are fine, I socialize, take them to work with me, always have people over.
If you ring our bell-watch out.
My huge thing was teaching them "Enough-its Ok" 
Your little one will watch out for you and be the best company when your husband needs to be away




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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The GSD is supposed to be an aggressive dog. THe aggression is used to effectively engage a person when biting. There are various drives that are catalyst for aggression.


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## Pat in Arizona (Jan 27, 2013)

*Guard Dog*

We started our two shepherds at 6 months with a certified trainer. Mostly he taught us how to work with them. We started them kind of early because we are in our 60s and they were getting big fast, and would have started earlier but we have a huge parvo problem here in the desert and the vet wanted us to wait until they had their full series of vaccines before we took them out of the yard. The military (at Lackland AFB) fosters puppies out for a year and starts training after a year. I have also found that youtube has videos on just about everything, so if you want to start your pup out on baby lessons, you could probably do that.

Btw, I think it is important to figure out what exactly you want your dog to do--do you need it to be sociable with visitors, do you want it to rip into intruders, etc. Their personalities may or may not go along with your purposes, so keep that in mind. Our Jack is a security guy and Kuma (they are brothers) would give a stranger a beer. 

You can learn a lot from books and videos--but we got a lot of important information from the trainer too. If you can afford the trainer, I suggest getting a few lessons. From there it is up to you to work daily with your dog--1 to 2 hours if possible.


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## Linda1270 (Sep 7, 2012)

My girl Tess, who is 13 months old, is the same way, she sleeps with one eye open. She is always alert and watchful, always on guard. ....But, she also plays constantly with my 8 month old Cairn Terrier, going right in to a submissive pose with my Cairn standing over her (priceless). 

People do cross the street at times when I'm out walking her and if a stranger where to step on our property, I know that Tess's bark alone will make him think again about coming any further. That's all I need, she's being a German Shepherd. For the most part, being protective is what they do.....isn't it?


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## lynnie29 (Nov 9, 2013)

mcmike73 said:


> I may have misinterpreted the "2 years old before you know" comment, but I disagree. My female is just over a year old and at 8 months she wouldn't bark unless something wasn't right. Over the last four months, she has progressed into quite the "guard dog".
> I live on a main road in town. I have a large glass front door where she lays and watches. If someone is across the street, she sits at attention and watches. If they cross the street, she wimpers. If they come into my yard (city sidewalk crosses my yard) She gives them the "HEY" bark while standing on her back legs with her front paws on the door. FYI the "HEY" bark is like no ther bark she has. She never growls or shows her teeth, but no closer than people get, they couldn't see that anyway. LOL


Can I ask a silly question :/ how did u track ur dog to change its bark


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