# Describe a typical training day with your club



## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

So I'm on the hunt for a more local training club and after visiting a few I'm just not finding the club style I would really like to have. Perhaps my expectations are too high? I'm finding almost all clubs train the exact same way so I'm curious about how your club trains. Not so much the methods and whose helper is better, but the actual training environment and support. I'm going to try to word my questions so as to not give away what I'm hoping to find in a club so I can get some honest feedback. 

For all three phases I'd like to know things like the TD's role, the role of other club members not working a dog (what are they doing while not working their dog), how many dogs are worked at the same time and how each one is being worked, how long it typically takes to train all dogs in each phase, how long each dog is trained in each phase. Who handles the dog, always always the handler or sometimes whoever is showing the handler what to do? Who praises the dog? Who decides what each dog is going to do that day?

For tracking, extras like who lays tracks? How are dogs tracked, one by one or as each handler finishes laying/aging the track? Do handlers track alone or with a person/group following? 

And any other info you think is essential to describing how your club trains and supports eachother in each phase. I'll eventually post what I'm looking for and what I've been finding is the norm.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Ok, just joined but here's what I've seen so far.

Day starts at 10:00 am. Obedience first. Everyone else in the club has dogs that are much older and more advanced than us. We sit and watch (and LEARN) while another member works their dog. TD gives advice, tips, tells you to try this or that. Only one dog works at a time.

What I've seen from the other members of the group is that while one dog is working either people are watching (and sometimes giving tips) or they are chatting quietly amongst themselves.

Bitework - again, one dog at a time. Dog is brought in and the TD is the 'helper'. He explains what they are going to do before the owner brings in the dog. Again - DH & I watch and learn. We are encouraged to ask questions - which I really like.

Mike and I also offer to take pictures and video anyone that wants it. I like videos because not only can I see what I'm doing (right and wrong) but I can EAR the TD again. My memory isn't that great anymore so I can use all the help I can get!

Our TD doesn't like to do tracking training in the winter. He says the ground is to dry. I'm not sure if I agree with waiting but we'll wait.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

We train in all 3 phases, and the majority of our club members are novices so we try to make sure they get a lot of guidance and feedback, and "homework" for between club sessions.

Tracking - everyone meets at the tracking grounds at around the same time though we stagger the laying of tracks so that as they age and are ready to be run, we don't have a bunch of tracks all ready at the same time. Usually we're tracking 1-2 dogs at a time and each dog has a small group of people following along. With the novices and their dogs, we always try to make sure there is an experienced person to watch them lay the track (and often help them plan the track before they lay it) and walk along with them when they run the track. Then after the dog is done tracking there is a short feedback session on what went well, what didn't, what to work on during the week, etc... Most of the time, the handler lays his/her own track. As I said most of these dogs are pretty new at this, so not yet to the point of needing to get exposed to strangers laying tracks. And most importantly, since most of our handlers are novices and track laying skills are very important ones to develop, laying their own tracks is more conducive to them learning more about tracking. When people want another person to lay their track, there's no shortage of volunteers willing to do it. If everyone shows up, which they usually do, that makes 15 dogs to track so tracking usually lasts about 1.5-2 hours. Then we caravan over to the regular training field from the tracking grounds.

Obedience - We typically work 2-3, sometimes 4, dogs at a time. We plan the order so there are always a couple of experienced people available to watch, critique and offer advice when the novices are working. So when not working their own dogs, the experienced folk are usually out on the field watching and helping. Everyone else is alternating between helping out as needed with groups, gunshots, setting up equipment and chowing down on the bagles and/or donuts we always have for breakfast. Handlers handle their own dogs, though occasionally the experienced person helping them may take the dog for a minute to demonstrate something. Not uncommon to see the experienced folks calling someone out onto the field when working their own dogs to demonstrate something they discussed earlier. Novices are in charge of planning their own sessions in obedience but they usually discuss that with their mentor beforehand, and of course sometimes things get changed midstream. 

One thing we do try to stress is that handlers should really think about their obedience session ahead of time, and use the club resources wisely to work on things they can't do at home during the week. Club is a place to get feedback and be shown how to train new things, and take advantage of groups, gunshots, jumps, distractions, working around other dogs, dumbbells being thrown around, some BH type traffic stuff with bikes and such for the dogs who need that, etc... Don't just go do some heeling and sits and downs, that can be (and should be) done at home. Sessions usually end with a short discussion on what's good, what needs improvement and what to work on during the week. Depending on the dog's level of training and the goals for that session, they may work anywhere from 10-20 minutes on the field. Usually takes our club about 1.5 hours to get through all the dogs in obedience.

Protection - Only one dog is worked at a time. Typically we do two rounds of protection with each dog. Depending on what goals there are for the session, it can last anywhere from 5-20 minutes per dog, and usually takes about 3 hours to get through training with all the dogs. With the novice handlers, the helper pretty much plans and runs the session, making sure the handler knows what to do, what is going on, what he's looking for that day. With the more experienced handlers, there's back and forth discussion between handler and helper to plan what to work on that day. We have 1 experienced helper and 3 guys who are learning helperwork, so we try plan the order of dogs working to rotate the helpers so each helper gets a break every couple dogs and we have a helper of the appropriate skill level paired up with each dog, and a helperwork coach available if needed when the new guys are working dogs. Those not working are watching, prepping their dog if it's up next, talking with the helper who's going to work their dog to plan their session, munching on food and chit-chatting. Sometimes the chit-chat is just socializing, sometimes it's dog and/or training related, sometimes the novices are asking questions and getting answers or the more experienced folks are providing a commentary of what's going on with the dog on the field to the novices on the sidelines so they can learn more from watching the others work.

Think I covered all your questions.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

More - the training runs until 3:00 - 4:00 pm, depending on how many people show up.

The TD or the other helper always work the dogs. If the handler is having trouble with their dog or if the TD thinks someone else might have better luck with a dog they will ask one of the other members (more experienced ones) to handle the dog.

The handlers ALWAYS are instructed to praise their dogs. The TD also praises them. Last week they were working a dog that was getting dirty in the blind. When the dog was performing correctly I could hear the TD (in the blind) saying "Gooood, dog. Very gooood, dog." in a clam voice.

From what I've seen I'd say the TD works the dog until they are "finished". Some dogs get more work than others but he always seems to stop just as the dogs are ready.

With the puppies (Mauser and one of their puppies) he always srops on a high note with the tug work.

I've been a member of one other club (now disbanded) and been to 2 other clubs to watch. I can honestly say this is the best club of them all!! The people are friendly and helpful. The TD will answer any questions, no matter how stupid they are (and I've had some doozies!). They are always looking at the dogs to be sure they aren't too stressed.

Another example. One of the dogs was having problems holding the sleeve. It would spit the sleeve out as soon as it was slipped and then try to get the TD (and sometimes the handler). The TD had someone else handle the dog and that helped. Then he slipped the sleeve and told the handler to let go of the leash. As the dog ran around the room he told us all not to touch it but to praise.

The dog was strutting around the room, holding that sleeve like it was the greatest thing! Wonderful turnaround for the dog!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Tracking, in the months that we track (usually March or April through December), we all meet between 8 and 8:30 AM on Sundays and then, for those who can, around 5-6 on Thursdays. Each person lays their own track unless they request someone else to do it. For novice handlers we will have them watch us lay a track and then walk them through the process. As TD I try to walk as many tracks as I can, but obviously do not do this every week. Other members walk tracks so that we rarely have to track alone. We do not track one dog at a time or we could be there all day. We have 14-20 dogs tracking and it takes 1.5 hours already and, if someone is working on FHs then sometimes longer. Handlers make their own training plans, but can always ask for input from the TD or the other more experienced members. 

Obedience sometimes starts when some dogs are still tracking. We work 2-4 dogs depending on the age of the dog. 2 mature dogs and a couple of young dogs at the most. In the winter we work 2 dogs at a time. The more experienced handlers work with the novice people plus we all make sure there is gun fire if needed, groups, and that everyone has a spotter/judge. I work very hard to keep obedience moving along, but not have it rushed. Obedience also takes 1.5 hours. 

We do two rounds of protection on Sundays and 1 round during the week. We try to accommodate people who might need to leave early and move people around in the order. We have 2 trial helpers and 2 more who we are still working with so we do some helper training too. I am on the field with just about every dog. Handlers do their own handling, praising, etc. The handler has total say over what we do in each session, but most look to me or the helper for input and to help plan their session. Even I will ask for input from my helper. Protection can take anywhere from 3-4 hours and has taken as long as 5 before a trial. I have found that I often will praise the dogs from the sidelines to help the handlers (not the dogs). I find I also throw in the markers during OB to help teach the handlers better timing. 

My club is a group of friends. We socialize, we cook, have BBQ, shooting days, and talk too much at times. Sometimes people need to be reminded to help during OB and I am definitely not a drill sergeant as a TD. Handlers always handle their own dogs though every once in awhile I or another has had to take the line to help. For the most part I see no advantage to other people handling the dogs. We are as much training handlers as we are training dogs. If the handler can not handle their dog in training, how can they be expected to handle them in a trial. We also do not spoon feed the handlers. They are expected to take control of their training and make sure they take the time to work their dogs away from the club.

I have been with clubs where people track alone, have little support in OB and do as they are told in protection. Luckily I have always been expected to learn how to handle my own dogs in protection. There are clubs where others take over the lines to speed things along instead of expecting the handlers to learn too.


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

We start with tracking by meeting at the tracking field at 8am. Sometimes we might use more than one tracking area depending on how many of us are tracking. After a brief discussion about what kinds of tracks every one wants (corner track, article track, amount of food etc) a couple people go out and lay tracks. The others hang around and discuss how individual trainings went during the week. When tracks are aged, everyone walks the track with the tracking team. We are very fortunate that we have a USA judge in our club, so he usually, "plays judge" for each of us. There is always discussion after each track. Depending on how many of us are tracking together, this takes about 2 hours.

Obedience at our training field begins at 10am. Some of us who track are almost always late. When everyone gets to the field, we discuss how tracking went, what our plans for obedience are, any issues we are having, discuss ideas, and then almost everyone hits the field at the same time for obedience. Some folks pair up because a spotter might be needed for the training. If someone wants assistance from a more experienced person, those folks pair up. There are usually 3 or 4 people who stay to the sidelines, who work their dogs in ob later, so they are our group. The key is telling the other members what you need from them during your training time. Do you need a crowd around the jumps? do you need a "judge" on the field? Do you need 10 people in the group instead of 4? Do you want to "check in"? We also usually have a photographer or videographer on the field as well. 

For bite work, we have to be very organized. A lot of us have multiple dogs, and all three of our helpers have a couple of dogs. We have a member who is tops in organization, so he usually puts together the line up of teams. Discussion with the helpers, TD, happens before we get our dogs. Keeping in mind you can plan all you want, but sometimes the dog tells you what you will be working on after you get out there. Depending on where you are with training, whether you have a trial coming up, the whole club is involved. There is a judge and a secretary on the field, there is check in, there are lots of people around the blind. We usually do two sets of bite work, and half way between we usually bbq. Everyone brings an item for lunch. At the end of training we usually spend some time discussing how it all went, and make plans to meet up for other training times before scheduled training times. A lot of us track together during the week, or get together to do obedience. Day usually ends somewhere around 4.

I really enjoy my club and the people in it. They are all goal oriented, be it club, regional, national...and every single one of them is willing to assist each other with any training needs. 

The key I think is letting others know what you need to progress, and if you don't know, then asking for a mentor to help you.


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## VHgraphics (Sep 9, 2008)

Our club trains 2x a week. Tuesday nites is strickly protection. Everyone takes a turn, helper rests, everyone takes a second turn and we end the nite.

Saturday mornings we start 8am tracking. We move back to the training field once we've all done our tracking and start with obedience. Once again everyone takes a turn with ob and then we prep the field for protection.

The 3rd item on the agenda for Saturday is protection. After everyone gets a turn or two we pack up and head home.


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

Have not forgotten about this, very busy. Will respond next week. Keep your descriptions coming!


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## Bullet (Dec 14, 2000)

My group is similar to Lisa's as far as the structure, and time frame for the actual days. On Saturdays, we start at 8am, and work until 1pm or so. I do keep things moving right along as well. I'll ask the more experienced people to work with folks having a problem, or that are new. I'm lucky enough to have a lot of people that have been around for a while, so I try to spread things out a little. Getting the more experienced people to help share some of their training day knowledge helps us in a lot of ways. For example there were times a few years back, that it would be really hard at least for me to try to help everyone, in all phases, then be the primary helper as well. That wasn't really fair to me in a lot of ways because I would always be hurrying to finish tracks so I could help with obedience, then doing the same between obedience & protection. A lot of times I didn't even have a chance to do any obednience or protection work with my dog(s). So while I'm still the TD, I basically try to use some of our clubs' experience to help in areas that I know will work out in a positive way. If there's a question or a problem, the people basically say, I need some more help and I'll go over and help out.

I have also come to realize that everyones' goals are different from everyone elses' . Add to that the different kinds of dog handler combinations we all come across and it makes training kind of a challenge from a TD perspective at times. That in itself can be fun as well, but it took me awhile to actually understand that. Some folks just want to be club members, others want just to pass something and of coarse you have the competitive folks. We do our best to make sure people don't get pushed into something they don't want or can't be as well.

So in a typical Saturday morning, we all track first. We're lucky in that our tracking area in right next to our sport field. This makes training pretty easy in that we can move from one phase to the next pretty easily. So to start in tracking, I might grab a novice or two to come with me. I'll ask another person or two to guide someone else. I want people to walk tracks with one another, ask questions, and I try to make people think about what they are doing, and what they want to accomplish. If a persons' goal is just to pass a SchH1 club track, their tracking goal and how they will accomplish it will be different than a person that wants a FH.

Then while folks are finishing up their tracking, some folks will be starting obedience. We might have several people working together as well. I do expect the group to be focussing on helping the people that are working. I pretty much demand people focus on helping one another, as opposed to having a gab session. That can come after training, and I like to talk just as much as the rest of everyone. Helping could be as simple as someone watching would say, hey your starting crooked, or your dog is moving on his down. It could also be me asking someone to help a novice with heeling. Retrieving as an example can be an issue at times as well, so double handling comes into play. One of the hardest things for novices to grasp in my area seems to be training motivationally, and happily. So we have people that are better at showing novices this kind of thing. I'll oversee all of that. Then the group will watch me and give me some ideas, and opinions. That can also be fun, and in the early days no one would say anything to me. It wasn't until I actually started using some of my people working with others that I got some good help for myself on the obedience field. That makes my day more enjoyable as well.

Then in protection, we generally use 2 or 3 helpers. As with the other phases, I try to involve as many of our people in as many ways as possible. I also ask questions of the group. So a person needs to pay attention. We try to set up training in such a way as a person might have a few options. I try to ensure the handlers know, understand, and how to express what they want from a helper in a training session. This isn't as hard as a person thinks, provided you take the time to explain that kind of thing right from the beginning. So again I try to get the group to focus on what's going on, and make sure they help explain things. Before each session, and after the helper will talk with the handler. This is where the 2 or 3 helpers come into play. While one guy is talking to someone, another can be getting his/her program in order. This isn't real hard stuff either. Most people will understand what you're showing and telling them, you just have to give them a chance. For example, I will show people what prey work is, and explain why their dog might need to work in prey. I can get a younger, more nimble helper to work in prey with the dog while I physically work with the handler, and their skills (or lack of) After a while these handlers get to understand how to hold a long line, or work with the dog on a back tie, etc. This works together with the people that are watching the training then, since they learn from watching.

Some positive examples of our training is the carry over is when one of our people guest trains at another club. They know how to ask for proper help, and understand there are a number ways of working with one another. Another is if I can't make training for some reason, then the club pretty much understands how to work with one another. I'll still get phone calls after, but at least we have developed a situation where a person can get some good solid training that works for us.

Al Govednik


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Quote:I have also come to realize that everyones' goals are different from everyone elses' . Add to that the different kinds of dog handler combinations we all come across and it makes training kind of a challenge from a TD perspective at times. That in itself can be fun as well, but it took me awhile to actually understand that. Some folks just want to be club members, others want just to pass something and of coarse you have the competitive folks. We do our best to make sure people don't get pushed into something they don't want or can't be as well.


I was sort of thrown into the TD position and expected to teach. It is not something that comes naturally. What Al says above was one of the more difficult things for me to learn. Of course my poor club members had to get used to my rather dry teaching style.











> Quote: Then the group will watch me and give me some ideas, and opinions. That can also be fun, and in the early days no one would say anything to me. It wasn't until I actually started using some of my people working with others that I got some good help for myself on the obedience field. That makes my day more enjoyable as well.


I have had to learn to be more proactive and ask for help too. I think many of the member don't realize that even a novice can help an experienced handler. We need groups, spotters, gun fire, judges, someone to video, cross track layers, track layers, etc. SchH is a team sport that consists of the handler, their dog, their helpers and their club. The best clubs are those that are there for all the members.


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## jesusica (Jan 13, 2006)

I wanted to very quickly respond because you two have hit on a biggie for me.

T-E-A-M. Schutzhund is about being a team. If you are at club, there is absolutely no reason you should be training by yourself. Absolutely inexcusable, a schutzhund sin. Otherwise, what is the point of going? I can do the same training at home and not have to drive all that way. Every phase requires teamwork. If I were truly blessed by the gods of schutzhund, I would never ever train a single phase by myself not even once. 

I have been _very_ disappointed in the teamwork of the clubs I have visited. What does it say when the person visiting the club is the one running to their vehicle to grab a line for someone because everyone else is just standing there with hands in pocket saying nope, I don't see it anywhere? What does it say when the visitor hands her line to the club member and the member is so, so grateful and shocked that someone would do such a thing? What does it say when the person visiting the club is the ONLY one to take action when a person working their dog asks for it? What does it say when the group speaks negatively of the person on the field with the visitor standing right there? Not just speaking negatively of one person, but each time a different handler is out there, they're being put down.

Either I live in the land of sh*t for clubs or people think their club is something it is not. Many of these replies give me hope I will find what I'm looking for, eventually.


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## kindevog (Dec 4, 2008)

I would say we are pretty lucky in the midwest I will train with a few different clubs becase of my work schedule I do train with Al once a week but will also travel to other clubs becaseof my work schedule. You may see if you can start with a person or two to train with. Sometimes having a person you trust to travel with can make going to a new club less intimidating..

Good luck Jeff


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## Bullet (Dec 14, 2000)

You have to keep in mind, that clubs really are no different than the people that run them. I would say everything posted here regarding clubs, was written by folks that keep things in order and make sure the little things are done correctly. The little things you mentioned, while seemingly small at the time, do make a difference, and people do notice. To add to that, I would also say they demand/expect their members to show a certain amount of courtesy and respect for another. That doesn't always have to be a spoken thing either. That comes from watching how the club leaders act with and towards one another.

Just as training means different things to different people, so does the club. So you have some people in the group/club that don't get along with certain other groups or don't care to try. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, simply that's the way it is. 

Perhaps a variation of this topic would be something like having folks write about what they have encountered, good and bad, from clubs they have visited. 

Best of luck with your search,
Al


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