# Once an e-collar, always an e-collar?



## Cheerful1 (Sep 27, 2011)

If our dog was trained by its former owner with an e-collar for the first six years of his life, should we be continuing that way?

We used the e-collar for a while on Joey, then stopped (we had the attitude that the e-collar shouldn't be the only way to control). Well, that's not working very well. 

When his former owner (family member) comes to visit, and shows us how to use the e-collar on Joey, he's an entirely different dog (obedient).


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Here's the issue with e-collars, as I've mentioned on your other thread, the dog is obedient out of fear not out of impulse. This is why positive reinforcement has gained so much support over the last few years over older techniques like e-collars and corrective techniques because the dog learns to want to please you and that when it acts correctly it gets praise, love, food, or play. When it acts bad, its ignored, so the dog wants to please. With the other techniques you can get dogs that don't listen when the punishment tool isn't on them. Why listen to you when the e-collar is off? There is no downside to not listening so why wouldn't the dog just do whatever it wants?

You can retrain this dog using a different technique, probably not positive reinforcement at this point because he's too big and strong to control and you're having issues which would be hard to ignore, but its possible if you find the ONE THING he will do anything for.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

I would go back and start from the very basics with this dog. Find out what this dog has drives for, treats? Tug? Ball? Start marker training with this dog in a zero distraction environment and slowly build it up. If you can, use different commands (or a different language). 

I use e-collar mainly to proof my dog's recall and for some exercises that need to be done off leash. What are you using the e-collar on this dog for? How long have you had this dog?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How exactly was he using the collar? What levels (on the collar) was he using? Was it being used as a correction if he didn't immediately listen? How does the dog react when you use it?

An e-collar can be a very helpful tool if used correctly on the right dog. Some dogs react fine and others shut down. It's all about how it's used and the temperament of the dog it's being used on. At least that's my experience with them.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The e-collar is a tool that can be used correctly or incorrectly just like any other training tool. There are many dogs that have been trained using the E that don't require it for life just like there are dogs trained with food and toys that stop working when the lure is no longer readily available. 

How a dog responds to training, no matter the tool, depends a lot on how the dog is trained, the temperament of the dog and the skills of the handler. 

If the OP's dog MUST wear the collar all the time to comply then he was never actually trained. If you want to use the collar find someone that is knowledgeable about using it as a training tool and not just a correction tool. Or find someone to work with that uses other methods and retrain your dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you don't want to use the e-collar, don't use it. If the dog is only compliant with it on, it doesn't sound like he's really all that trained anyway, so you can start over using whatever method or tool you prefer and he'll probably catch on pretty fast.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Incorrect use of the collar, period. It should be used to help train or polish behaviors, not used forever to get the dog to comply to basic commands.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why should an E-Collar be used to help train or polish (reinforce )
training? you can train and reinforce train without an E-Collar.
do some dogs need an E-Collar, i guess they do. i think a lot
of people use an E-Collar for a quick fix.



GSDElsa said:


> Incorrect use of the collar, period. It should be used to help train or polish behaviors, not used forever to get the dog to comply to basic commands.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Err, if you're going to use an e-collar, that's what it should be used for. Not much more to say, and not going to get into the merits with your of e-collar vs. non at all.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

hey, i'm not going to get into the merits of an e-collar
or no e-collar with you, so there!! :crazy:



GSDElsa said:


> Err, if you're going to use an e-collar, that's what it should be used for. Not much more to say, and not going to get into the merits with your of e-collar vs. non at all.


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## ShatteringGlass (Jun 1, 2006)

doggiedad said:


> why should an E-Collar be used to help train or polish (reinforce )
> training? you can train and reinforce train without an E-Collar.
> do some dogs need an E-Collar, i guess they do. i think a lot
> of people use an E-Collar for a quick fix.


 
Because it's a tool that when used properly works well in training dogs? I think you're trying to turn this into a pro vs anti remote collar training thread, and that is not where the OP was going.

to the OP, no matter what tool is used, if the dog is only complying when the tool (be it e-collar, food, toy, prong, choke collar) is being used, then like others said, the dog is not really fully trained.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Cheerful1 said:


> If our dog was trained by its former owner with an e-collar for the first six years of his life, should we be continuing that way?
> 
> We used the e-collar for a while on Joey, then stopped (we had the attitude that the e-collar shouldn't be the only way to control). Well, that's not working very well.
> 
> When his former owner (family member) comes to visit, and shows us how to use the e-collar on Joey, he's an entirely different dog (obedient).


We did not use an e-collar to train Mac but we find it useful as reinforcement and precautionary. For instance, Mac walks with us off leash but we carry the remote with us just in case our commands fail. As well as he's trained, we don't want to take the risk he'll run into the road and get hit by a car.

With that said, it sounds like you need to start from the beginning...


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

"former owner" may be your clue here.

A dog in a new home, new environment and new owners may be what you need to address.

I have and use e-collars, as well as treats etc... all just 'training' aids or reinforcement or for special incidences like crittering.

If I were you, I'd start one on one with positive training. This dog probably needs time to bond with you. Like a puppy.

If you doubt the value of positive training, read 
Soldier Dogs by Maria Goodavage


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Lisa you are one thousand percent right.....I have seen many dogs that the e-collar was used in the process of training the dog and upon completion the dog doesn't need the collar to execute. And the dog was not operating out of fear. Actually the e collar can be used as a positive reinforcer by the more skilled practitioners. I have also seen many people use an e collar that didn't have a clue, and i have seen many people with pinch collars that didn't have a clue, AND I have seen many all positive dogs that were unreliable unless ideal conditions were present. Does that mean that pinch collars shouldn't be used....no, does that mean that all positive should not be used....no, does that mean that e collars shouldn't be used....no! I am certainly not an all positive person at all or e collar unless sometimes proofing....yet my dogs work reliably with tail waggin and head held up ready to do what I ask. Like you said, its just a training tool just like any other tool, and in the right hands its good and in the wrong hands its not so good. Same with pinch, same with toys, tug, or all positive.


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