# Farmina Dog Food



## Allie512

Has anyone tried this food? Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You. | Happy pet. Happy you. My local pet food shop has started carrying it and it comes with good reviews. I was thinking of it for my Allie who has digestive problems and was put on Hills W/D which is the only thing that regulated her bowels but now she has diarrhea and gas and requires metro - I am investigating the case on a thread in Health issues but also wanted to inquire about Farmina.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/491353-help-digestive-issues.html


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## Ace GSD

Sorry cant help u i dont know what language is that lol


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## Moriah

Ace GSD said:


> Sorry cant help u i dont know what language is that lol


It's Italian. Click the link, then go up to the right-hand top of the page and select "English."


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## llombardo

I've heard its s good food.


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## ChanceNY

We feed Farmina and LOVE it! Our 3 chihuahuas have been eating it since April and are doing really great on it - we use it in the am and do THK at night. Chance was eating it from April till he passed away as well. We feed the ancestrial grain chicken formula. The chihuahuas are picky eaters and they actually enjoy this food. One of my cats that won't eat wet eats the dry grain free as well. I love everything I have read about the company and the food  
We order from Sportdogfood.com
BTW here's the american site : Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You. | Happy pet. Happy you.


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## VanLee

Farmina N&D is a top food. It is very similar to the best foods made in the United States and Canada but the ingredient quality is much better because Italy has much higher standards.

Farmina N&D has much more animal protein because the company does not stuff the foods with peas, lentils and chickpeas.

All the foods are high protein and high fat and they are top quality.

They are included in Susan Thixton's from TruthaboutPetFoods "Most Trusted List" and the company discloses where are all the ingredients come from.

They are excellent foods, among the best if not the best available in the US. Prices are pretty reasonable as well.

https://www.facebook.com/FarminaUSA


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## JoanieGSD

Been thinking about feeding this - there don't seem to be many opinions out there yet. Anyone? This is the one I am thinking of feeding

Ingredients: Lamb meat, dehydrated lamb meat (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), whole spelt, whole oats, dehydrated egg product, herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), dehydrated herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), herring & salmon oil blend (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp, dried carrots, sun‐cured alfalfa meal, chicory root extract, fructooligosaccharide, yeast extract (source of mannan‐oligosaccharides), dehydrated blueberry, dehydrated apple, dehydrated pomegranate, dehydrated sweet orange, dehydrated spinach, psyllium seed husk, dehydrated blackcurrant berry, salt, brewers dried yeast, turmeric, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, beta‐carotene, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, DL‐methionine, taurine, L‐carnitine, aloe vera gel concentrate, green tea extract, rosemary extract.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min): 28.00%; Crude Fat (min): 18.00%; Crude Fiber (max): 2.90%; Moisture (max): 9.00%; Ash (max): 8,20%; Calcium (min): 1.40%; Phosphorus (min): 1.10%; Omega‐6 Fatty Acids* (min): 3.30%; Omega‐3 Fatty Acids* (min): 0.90%; Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA*) (min): 0.50%; Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA*) (min): 0.30%; Glucosamine* (min): 900mg/kg. Chondroitin Sulfate* (min): 600mg/kg. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles. 

Supplemental Information: Percentage of Protein fr


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## VanLee

JoanieGSD said:


> Been thinking about feeding this - there don't seem to be many opinions out there yet. Anyone? This is the one I am thinking of feeding
> 
> Ingredients: Lamb meat, dehydrated lamb meat (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), whole spelt, whole oats, dehydrated egg product, herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), dehydrated herring (source of glucosamine & chondroitin sulfate), chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), herring & salmon oil blend (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp, dried carrots, sun‐cured alfalfa meal, chicory root extract, fructooligosaccharide, yeast extract (source of mannan‐oligosaccharides), dehydrated blueberry, dehydrated apple, dehydrated pomegranate, dehydrated sweet orange, dehydrated spinach, psyllium seed husk, dehydrated blackcurrant berry, salt, brewers dried yeast, turmeric, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, biotin, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, choline chloride, beta‐carotene, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, DL‐methionine, taurine, L‐carnitine, aloe vera gel concentrate, green tea extract, rosemary extract.
> 
> Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min): 28.00%; Crude Fat (min): 18.00%; Crude Fiber (max): 2.90%; Moisture (max): 9.00%; Ash (max): 8,20%; Calcium (min): 1.40%; Phosphorus (min): 1.10%; Omega‐6 Fatty Acids* (min): 3.30%; Omega‐3 Fatty Acids* (min): 0.90%; Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA*) (min): 0.50%; Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA*) (min): 0.30%; Glucosamine* (min): 900mg/kg. Chondroitin Sulfate* (min): 600mg/kg. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.
> 
> Supplemental Information: Percentage of Protein fr


I am using the Grain Free Chicken and the results are excellent. That looks like an excellent Lamb food. I saw there is also a Grain Free Lamb.


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## NancyJ

It looks like a very good food.


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## JoanieGSD

I started feeding the chicken and ancient grain three days ago. Chewy didn't have the lamb. I emailed them and they said they are going to look into getting it. Anyhow, so far, so good - no digestive upsets. I will update in a couple weeks!


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## ChanceNY

I've been ordering from SportDogFood.com because Chewy is always out of the small bags I need. I've been happy with them - fast delivery, good prices and they always have coupon codes
Farmina N&D for highly active dogs at SportDogFood.com | Free Shipping


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## NancyJ

Interesting. A dog food from Italy being imported into the states. It looks like a good food but what is there about it that would make it better than from over here? This is not judging just curious........I know our heavy use of antibiotics and hormones....is that used over there? etc. Would like to find out more........


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## Jax08

ChanceNY said:


> I've been ordering from SportDogFood.com because Chewy is always out of the small bags I need. I've been happy with them - fast delivery, good prices and they always have coupon codes
> Farmina N&D for highly active dogs at SportDogFood.com | Free Shipping


SportDogFood.com is awesome. They are fast shipping and great customer service. We order our Victor thru there.


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## kr16

jocoyn said:


> Interesting. A dog food from Italy being imported into the states. It looks like a good food but what is there about it that would make it better than from over here? This is not judging just curious........I know our heavy use of antibiotics and hormones....is that used over there? etc. Would like to find out more........



Most of our food is banned in Europe, especially our meats. I tried to research what they use and couldn't find any extra goodies like we use. 


The full list of foods with questionable chemicals banned elsewhere comes from a new book by nutritionists Jayson Calton, Ph.D., and Mira Carlton called Rich Food, Poor Food. It was also reported by BuzzFeed.com. Here are eight banned foods available in the U.S.

1. Artificially colored food made with dyes derived from petroleum and coal tar. Yellow 5, Red 40 and six others dyes – used to enhance products from Froot Loops to Nutri-Grain cereal bars - are called the “rainbow of risk” by the Center for Science in the Public Interest. They are banned in Norway, Finland, France, Austria and the U.K.

2. Chicken with arsenic. Arsenic in chicken feed cuts down on parasites, makes chickens grow faster and gives their meat more color. It also gives the chicken we eat higher levels of arsenic, known to cause lung, bladder and skin cancers, a study last month by the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore found. Arsenic-laced feed is banned in the European Union.

3. Drinks with brominated vegetable oil (BVO). Bromine is a chemical used to keep carpets from catching fire, among other things, so why is it in our food? PepsiCo is removing it from Gatorade but keeping it in Mountain Dew. BVO is banned in more than 100 countries.

4. Breads with potassium bromate, used in bromated flour to make bread products rise higher and faster. Found in rolls, bagel chips, bread crumbs and flatbreads, potassium bromate has been linked to thyroid and kidney cancers in lab animals. It has been banned in Europe, Canada and China. California declared it a carcinogen in 1991.

>> Get discounts on health services with your AARP Member Advantages.

5. Frozen dinners with azodicarbonamide. This is used to bleach and stabilize flour and also to make foamed plastic products like yoga mats and sneakers. Found in frozen TV dinners, packaged baked goods and some breads, it has been associated with inducing asthma. It is banned in Australia, the U.K. and most European countries.

6. Food preserved with BHA and BHT. These preservatives are added to cereal, nut mixes, gum, butter, meat and dehydrated potatoes to keep them from turning rancid. The debate over their safety has been going on in the U.S. for years. Meanwhile, they’re banned in the U.K., Japan and many European countries.

7. Milk with rBGH and rBST, also known as bovine growth hormones. Synthetic hormones, these are given to cows and therefore found in milk and other dairy products (unless the label specifically says otherwise). They have been linked to cancer and infertility and are banned in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan and the European Union.

8. Chips with Olestra or Olean, a fat substitute used in fat-free chips, like Ruffles Wow. Olestra and Olean can produce cramps and leaky bowels and are banned in the U.K. and Canada.


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> Interesting. A dog food from Italy being imported into the states. It looks like a good food but what is there about it that would make it better than from over here? This is not judging just curious........I know our heavy use of antibiotics and hormones....is that used over there? etc. Would like to find out more........


This company tells you everything you want to know. The ingredients are fully documented on TruthAboutPetfood and Susan Thixton who I love has this food on her list of 20 Most Trusted Foods.

Some things about Italy, 1) Italy went completely GMO-Free in the year 2,000 by National Referendum. 2) Italy is known to have the purest food supply in the world along with New Zealand, Australia and France. Only Italy, New Zealand and Australia are allowed to export ruminant ingredients like lamb to the United States. Italy is the only country in the world that is allowed to export dry cured pork products that are not heated to the United States and 3) Italy has "preferential export" status with the USDA due to food quality standards, non-use of hormones, antibiotics and preservatives.

Google the company 'Amadori', this is the company that supplies chicken to Farmina. The company even mixes it own NON-GMO chicken feed and uses solar and wind to power the plants.

What I find amazing is that the 37% protein Chicken GF food is around $65 and it has no peas, or lentils and is labelled as "95% Animal Protein, as fed" meaning that 95% of the GA protein is animal sourced. Compare that price to something like Fromm which is loaded with junk.

I asked the company about the cost of shipping and they said the cost of shipping a 26.4lb bag was less than $2 each.

Great stuff....get a bag and you will see a dramatic difference in the looks and smell of this food.


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## VanLee

JoanieGSD said:


> I started feeding the chicken and ancient grain three days ago. Chewy didn't have the lamb. I emailed them and they said they are going to look into getting it. Anyhow, so far, so good - no digestive upsets. I will update in a couple weeks!


Feed less of this food no matter what you were using before. I have my crew on 2- 2.5 cups per day. I use the 1 gram of protein method, 1 gram of protein per ideal lb of body weight. Just divide ideal body weight by 30 or 37 (30 grams of protein per cup for ancient grain and 37 grams of protein per cup for the grain free foods). So an 80lb GSD would get 2.66 cups and 2.25 cups, respectively. Mine crap tootsie rolls on this food.

I am dying to get my hands on the Max sized kibble as well.


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## NancyJ

Thanks for all the information and the alternate vendor (on top of chewy). We will have to try some.


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> Thanks for all the information and the alternate vendor (on top of chewy). We will have to try some.


I asked two weeks worth of questions to the Facebook page, they get back to you right away.

https://www.facebook.com/FarminaUSA


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## JoanieGSD

VanLee said:


> Feed less of this food no matter what you were using before. I have my crew on 2- 2.5 cups per day. I use the 1 gram of protein method, 1 gram of protein per ideal lb of body weight. Just divide ideal body weight by 30 or 37 (30 grams of protein per cup for ancient grain and 37 grams of protein per cup for the grain free foods). So an 80lb GSD would get 2.66 cups and 2.25 cups, respectively. Mine crap tootsie rolls on this food.
> 
> I am dying to get my hands on the Max sized kibble as well.


Ok, thank you for telling me this. I was wondering why I haven't seen my dog poop in a few days and she doesn't seem constipated - she does go outside on our farm some by herself so I figured I was just missing it but usually she goes a couple times a day. The recommended amount for her weight - 100 pounds is idea for her - is 4 to 6 cups. We walk 2-3 miles every day and she does get extra stuff for breakfast like canned salmon or chicken feet so I was giving her 4 cups. I'll back off to 3 cups and see how that goes


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## VanLee

JoanieGSD said:


> Ok, thank you for telling me this. I was wondering why I haven't seen my dog poop in a few days and she doesn't seem constipated - she does go outside on our farm some by herself so I figured I was just missing it but usually she goes a couple times a day. The recommended amount for her weight - 100 pounds is idea for her - is 4 to 6 cups. We walk 2-3 miles every day and she does get extra stuff for breakfast like canned salmon or chicken feet so I was giving her 4 cups. I'll back off to 3 cups and see how that goes


Well if 100lbs is good weight the math would work out to be 3 1/3 cups. You know her needs best, 4 cups is certainly not excessive for an active 100lb dog.


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## Glacier

It's a good food, but isn't good for my boy. We discovered his allergy to chicken eggs on this feed. The ingredients look awesome too, but they don't have an egg free formula.


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## Pax8

Our rancher that we usually get meat from has retired, so I tried this one with Kaiju. Unfortunately, he had explosive diarrhea no matter what I did.  Made me sad because I LOVE the quality of the food...


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## VanLee

Glacier said:


> It's a good food, but isn't good for my boy. We discovered his allergy to chicken eggs on this feed. The ingredients look awesome too, but they don't have an egg free formula.


Yes they do, the Cod.

Single Animal Protein Wild Cod & Ancestral Grain Recipe | Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You.

Fresh Cod, Dehydrated Cod, Farro, Oats & Fish Oil, no chicken products of any kind and its 30% protein and 18% fat.


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## llombardo

VanLee said:


> Yes they do, the Cod.
> 
> Single Animal Protein Wild Cod & Ancestral Grain Recipe | Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You.
> 
> Fresh Cod, Dehydrated Cod, Farro, Oats & Fish Oil, no chicken products of any kind and its 30% protein and 18% fat.


 
Oats can be right up there with eggs as far as allergies.


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## llombardo

I've just spent three hours looking for a food that has the least amount of ingredients that my dog is allergic to per his allergy tests and Farmina Grain Free Chicken has about 99% of the ingredients he can have. As much as I hate the thought of having different foods for the dogs, I'm purchasing this for him and keeping the rest of them on another food.


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## NancyJ

I just bought my first bag...only two days into it so we will see. I bought the low grain.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> I just bought my first bag...only two days into it so we will see. I bought the low grain.


I can't use this one because of the Oats


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## NancyJ

Yep, mine is fine with oats so it seems. I really like to keep the protein around 30% when I can. I wonder about phytic acid. The spelt is a perfect combo with oats because they don't have the necessary phytase if you soak them...... (note to self for soaking my oats for breakfast-maybe spelt+oats)......I will have to find out if they do something to deactivate the phytates in the oats.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> Yep, mine is fine with oats so it seems. I really like to keep the protein around 30% when I can. I wonder about phytic acid. The spelt is a perfect combo with oats because they don't have the necessary phytase if you soak them...... (note to self for soaking my oats for breakfast-maybe spelt+oats)......I will have to find out if they do something to deactivate the phytates in the oats.


 
Based on the one posters feeding recomendations, feeding this food decreases how much mine get by quite a bit. I wonder about how many cups of food come in one bag? I would love to switch all of them. I would be at just over 11 cups a day for all of mine to maintain their weights. I like lower protein, but I thought Midnite didn't do well on it, but it could have just been allergies to foods. Almost every food I have given him, he is allergic to several ingredients


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## llombardo

And I have to pay $12.95 for shipping. If I got the free shipping it would be more worth it. Without the free shipping the price is kind of steep.


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## NancyJ

chewy sells the grain free varieties


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> chewy sells the grain free varieties


Chewy sells all the formulas except Lamb. Amazon has all of them.

Sportdogfood.com has them all but not free shipping everywhere. I have used this one and like that they use FedEx with Saturday delivery.


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## VanLee

llombardo said:


> Oats can be right up there with eggs as far as allergies.


That I don't believe in general. Outside of modern hybrid wheat, allergies to grains are close to nonexistent.

I have read many studies and have never seen any grain other than modern wheat at more than 1%-2%.

I am not saying it doesn't happen but it is exceedingly rare.

You should check with the company on Facebook "Farmina USA" about stores where you live that carry it.


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## llombardo

VanLee said:


> That I don't believe in general. Outside of modern hybrid wheat, allergies to grains are close to nonexistent.
> 
> I have read many studies and have never seen any grain other than modern wheat at more than 1%-2%.
> 
> I am not saying it doesn't happen but it is exceedingly rare.
> 
> You should check with the company on Facebook "Farmina USA" about stores where you live that carry it.


Well my dog is allergic to oats and peas among other stuff. I will be contacting them about the peas, that could be a problem for us. Most foods are containing this now.


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## NancyJ

VanLee, I will agree with you that more allergies are probably to various meats than grains but the phytic acid ? AAFCO values were developed, I think, using dogs fed a largely corn based diet so the mineral content probably compensates for the absorption issues cause by phytic acid..........

I don't know if manufacturers take any steps to reduce these or just use raw dried grains and beans (worst of all) or process adequately to deactivate it.

Reducing Phytic Acid in Grains and Legumes


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> VanLee, I will agree with you that more allergies are probably to various meats than grains but the phytic acid ? AAFCO values were developed, I think, using dogs fed a largely corn based diet so the mineral content probably compensates for the absorption issues cause by phytic acid..........
> 
> I don't know if manufacturers take any steps to reduce these or just use raw dried grains and beans (worst of all) or process adequately to deactivate it.
> 
> Reducing Phytic Acid in Grains and Legumes


I interacted with the company on Facebook to my satisfaction. I had several questions and they were answered quickly. I didn't ask about Phytic Acid though. I would be more concerned with foods like Fromm even Orijen that use lentils, chickpeas, etc. 

The person told me that content (weight) of the two grains on a typical analysis was around 16%.


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## llombardo

I emailed them about the pea content yesterday. Hopefully it's very minimal.


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## VanLee

llombardo said:


> I emailed them about the pea content yesterday. Hopefully it's very minimal.


I looked through most of formulas, where did you see peas?


Grain-Free Wild Boar Recipe | Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You.


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## llombardo

VanLee said:


> I looked through most of formulas, where did you see peas?
> 
> 
> Grain-Free Wild Boar Recipe | Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You.


It's listed as....fiber vegetable of peas


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## Glacier

VanLee said:


> Yes they do, the Cod.
> 
> Single Animal Protein Wild Cod & Ancestral Grain Recipe | Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You.
> 
> Fresh Cod, Dehydrated Cod, Farro, Oats & Fish Oil, no chicken products of any kind and its 30% protein and 18% fat.


Cool, I'll add it to his rotation and see how he does on it.


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## JoanieGSD

I have been feeding Farmina Ancient Grains chicken for a month now and am having no issues. So far I am pleased.


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## NancyJ

Beau has made it through his first bag of Farmina Chicken Ancient Grains and I am totally impressed! He is eating less than he has had of any high value food I have given him in the past (Including Orijen/Acana) and is gaining weight and his topcoat is getting thicker and is very shiny. 

I know different dogs thrive on different foods but I am very impressed. Would like to see more variety in the ancient grains line but for now........

FWIW they did answer my question on phytic acid on FB


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> Beau has made it through his first bag of Farmina Chicken Ancient Grains and I am totally impressed! He is eating less than he has had of any high value food I have given him in the past (Including Orijen/Acana) and is gaining weight and his topcoat is getting thicker and is very shiny.
> 
> I know different dogs thrive on different foods but I am very impressed. Would like to see more variety in the ancient grains line but for now........
> 
> FWIW they did answer my question on phytic acid on FB


 
I just finished my first bag for both the GSD's too. They are at 2 cups per day and doing well. I went with the Herring flavor. It lasted us just over 3 weeks.


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## NancyJ

Wow, I cut down to 4 cups from 6 of the other 400 calorie/cup a day foods. I am going to let him add a little more then start tapering back.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> Wow, I cut down to 4 cups from 6 of the other 400 calorie/cup a day foods. I am going to let him add a little more then start tapering back.


 
I'm using the ideal weight divided by the protein. Robyn is at 80 pounds and gets a little over 2 cups per day and Midnite's ideal weight is between 80-85, so he gets about the same, maybe a little bit more. They are looking very good


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## NancyJ

Beau's has been running about 69lbs-72lbs but I think he needs to carry about 80. He is 3 and maturing slowly so he may be starting to bulk but he inherited more of his bone from his west german working lines dam than from his czech sire.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> Beau's has been running about 69lbs-72lbs but I think he needs to carry about 80. He is 3 and maturing slowly so he may be starting to bulk but he inherited more of his bone from his west german working lines dam than from his czech sire.


The food your feeding is 30% protein, right? 80 pounds as an ideal weight divided by that protein, right around 3 cups a day would probably work. I just watch the poop, if that gets not good, then I know I'm over feeding.


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## NancyJ

I am going to let him gain a bit more but at 70 he is really TOO thin. Yep I am feeding the same. For a dry food, I don't really want to feed 37-38% protein and I want the fat. Spelt and oats together are a good grain combo. They process to minimize phytates, most of which are in the hull (which is why, if I gave rice it would NOT be brown rice, not for the dogs). Dogs do great with fat as long as it is properly balanced and not high omega 6s.

EDIT Oh interesting. I have never liked flax for dogs. Guess what. The seed hulls of flax are quite high in phytic acid


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I am on the second bag of this: Single Animal Protein Wild Cod & Ancestral Grain Recipe | Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You. mixed with a lower protein food. Poops may almost be too firm, I noticed my one BC mix pushing today, and then saw her do a front leg stand, hind legs off the ground! Yikes. But, overall, happy with this food.


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## NancyJ

my next order will be the cod then the lamb......


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## VanLee

Mine are on the GF Chicken, they never miss a meal, they don't have their heads in the water bowl and they are rock hard and their coats are shiny and thick. I have also noticed the stains on their canine teeth are fading.

I saw this posted on Facebook yesterday. This food was on Susan Thixton's most trusted list for 2014 and now again for 2015. There are only 20 foods on this list and very few kibbles.


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## R-a-m-b-o

N&D is the best choice for your dogs.
All three of my dogs eats N&D grain free chicken.(The fish formula is also nice)
3 Years old male gsd.(Which wouldn't eat any kind of chicken in other kibbles and wouldn't digest it also, so i guess N&D has a magic formula )
7.5 Months old female gsd.
And a 11 years old female spitz.


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## Linda1270

It sounds like a lot of people are happy with Farmina. I've been thinking about trying it for a while now so I'm really glad I found this post. I am going to order a bag of the Cod for my 2 year old GSD. I may also give some to my Cairn Terrier to see if she likes it too. It would be nice to feed one food to both dogs and have them do well on it too.


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## jsca

We've been using Farmina since around March, right around when it became available in the US. Can't say enough good things about this company. 

We have a 4.5 year old GSD and a 1 year old GSD/dutch shepherd mix, they both do fantastic on it. Prior they were both on Taste of the Wild. I still think TOTW is a great mid-priced quality food, but overall I'm a lot happier with Farmina and think it's a much better value and you're getting a lot higher quality of food right in the same price range. 

I won't go into specifics on the ingredients or nutrition because it's all readily available on their site, but just personal experience with it. 

Jager, the pure GSD has done the best on it. The mix girl would eat a bowl of rocks if you put it in front of her, lol, but Jager's always been a super picky eater. He was always free-fed and would pick at food when he felt like it. We always had to rotate the proteins with TOTW for him and in home cooked food to get him to eat his food and even then it would be a struggle sometimes. Now we feed him Farmina's low grain cod and even almost a year later he'll eat every kibble in his bowl right when you put it down, no more picking or refusing to eat. 

His coat looks great and he's at the healthiest winter weight he's ever been. Way, way tinier stools than he had with TOTW too. We also have to feed him slightly less than we did on TOTW.

Customer service is great at Farmina too, if you have any specific questions direct them at their facebook page and they answer very quickly. Before I switched over they sent me some samples of their different formulas.

I wish I had some pictures to better show off how shiny the black portion of his coat has become, but he has a really prominent bitch stripe so it's difficult.


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## NancyJ

llombardo said:


> It's listed as....fiber vegetable of peas


I asked about the peas and they directed me to the USA page. They say they don't use them on products intended for distribution over here.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> I asked about the peas and they directed me to the USA page. They say they don't use them on products intended for distribution over here.


This is correct, which made me even more comfortable using it.


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## CliffordDog

I am not familiar with this brand but it does seem to be good food. Clifford, our Belgium Malinois had some really bad digestive problems and once we changed to Honest Kitchen Embark he has been very healthy. We did gradually add Zignature Turkey formula after about a year to help reduce the costs of the food and he is still doing great. His diet is more plant based and the Zignature does use Chickpeas in place of grain.


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## VanLee

CliffordDog said:


> I am not familiar with this brand but it does seem to be good food. Clifford, our Belgium Malinois had some really bad digestive problems and once we changed to Honest Kitchen Embark he has been very healthy. We did gradually add Zignature Turkey formula after about a year to help reduce the costs of the food and he is still doing great. His diet is more plant based and the Zignature does use Chickpeas in place of grain.


Zignature use peas, pea protein, chickpeas, flax seed and pea flour in place of meat.


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## dogfaeries

Got my first bag of Farmina. Sage, who is ridiculously picky, sucked her food down and then ran over and burped in my face. So far it's a go with miss picky.


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## penny wray

dogfaeries said:


> Got my first bag of Farmina. Sage, who is ridiculously picky, sucked her food down and then ran over and burped in my face. So far it's a go with miss picky.


Where do I get a bag ?


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## dogfaeries

I ordered it from chewy.com - first time I've ever ordered from them. If she continues to like it, and does well on it, then I'll keep ordering from Chewy. I got this one: Farmina Natural & Delicious Chicken & Ancestral Low-Grain Formula Dry Dog Food, 26.4-lb bag


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## llombardo

penny wray said:


> Where do I get a bag ?


More places are carrying it or can order it, speciality dog shops. The place I go gives me $15 off every $150, so I save $7.50 per bag


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## VanLee

penny wray said:


> Where do I get a bag ?


Petflow.com, SportDogFood.com (check which states are free shipping), Amazon and TheHealthyPetStore.com.

I am able to get in stores as well in NJ.

Look at the locator map for stores.

Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You. | Happy pet. Happy you.


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## NancyJ

I had someone tell me they got a lot of wicked gas. I did, too, at the start but it dissipated. Any else have this experience?


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## Winters

I am usually at another forum but I saw there was a pretty large thread on this food.

As far as dry food goes, this is the best I have used. 

Dry food is a matter of convenience, but you can't go wrong with N&D, just don't overfeed it.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> I had someone tell me they got a lot of wicked gas. I did, too, at the start but it dissipated. Any else have this experience?


There was some but I wasn't sure who, so it's possible. No issues now.


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## Linda1270

I just ordered my first bag of Farmina - Wild Cod and Ancestral Grain. My 2 year old GSD is very picky so it will be interesting to see how she does with this food. She also has allergies, scratches and licks her paws so I've been trying to find a good food for with limited ingredients. Tess is 95 lbs now, which is pretty big for a female but she's not fat, she's solid. I'm going to try to keep her at 1.5 cups twice a day. Anyone have any thoughts on this amount?


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## TANDB

jocoyn said:


> I had someone tell me they got a lot of wicked gas. I did, too, at the start but it dissipated. Any else have this experience?


Both my dogs had terrible gas with the cod formula as well as a continuous odor emanating from. I had to stop feeding half way through the 2nd big bag. Odor stopped after a couple of days off the food. I'm going to try the herring.


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## TANDB

3 cups a day is probably pretty close. If you're on facebook, pm the farmina page. Very helpful and always replies.



Linda1270 said:


> I'm going to try to keep her at 1.5 cups twice a day. Anyone have any thoughts on this amount?


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## llombardo

Linda1270 said:


> I just ordered my first bag of Farmina - Wild Cod and Ancestral Grain. My 2 year old GSD is very picky so it will be interesting to see how she does with this food. She also has allergies, scratches and licks her paws so I've been trying to find a good food for with limited ingredients. Tess is 95 lbs now, which is pretty big for a female but she's not fat, she's solid. I'm going to try to keep her at 1.5 cups twice a day. Anyone have any thoughts on this amount?


My male us 85-90 pounds and gets 2 cups a day of the Herring formula


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## Linda1270

TANDB said:


> Both my dogs had terrible gas with the cod formula as well as a continuous odor emanating from. I had to stop feeding half way through the 2nd big bag. Odor stopped after a couple of days off the food. I'm going to try the herring.


Oh no! :wild: With all the foods I've had Tess on these past couple of years she's never had gas, I would hate to see her start now. Hopefully, she'll be okay on the cod.


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## NancyJ

I had an initial gas problem but I was feeding too much - knocked down the amount and the gas left.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> I had an initial gas problem but I was feeding too much - knocked down the amount and the gas left.


So you stopped over feeding the dogs and YOUR gas went away?	:rofl:	:rofl:


Sorry I couldnt refuse


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## Galathiel

So I looked a bit at this food as I'm always willing to change if something would be better for Varik. I guess I'm confused about a few things. I'm not the greatest at reading ingredients, but having potatoes and sweet potatoes is better than peas .. how? I'm not being sarcastic, I want to know! It would help me to read labels better. I've seen other dog foods with similar ingredients, so not sure how this one is better.


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## NancyJ

What is better to me is that none of the grains have GMOs in them, even those used to feed the poultry. That is HUGE to me. Also, Italy uses less phosphorus in their soils. You can ask them any questions you want on their facebook page and they offer intelligent answers quickly. But I like what it has done for my dog. That is number 1 and that is going to vary among dogs.

Llombardo, I eat lots of beans. pfffft pfffft.


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## VanLee

Galathiel said:


> So I looked a bit at this food as I'm always willing to change if something would be better for Varik. I guess I'm confused about a few things. I'm not the greatest at reading ingredients, but having potatoes and sweet potatoes is better than peas .. how? I'm not being sarcastic, I want to know! It would help me to read labels better. I've seen other dog foods with similar ingredients, so not sure how this one is better.


The answer to this question is simple. Potatoes and Sweet Potatoes are virtually free of protein. So that means the protein in the food comes from the animal ingredients like meat, eggs and fish.

Have you read some of the labels lately? Peas, Pea Starch, Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Brown Lentils, Chickpeas, "Pea Protein", etc.

Add those all up and what is the food made of? Answer: beans.

Some of the health issues with legumes like lentils, peas and other beans are phytic acid and phytoestrogens. Jean Dodd has a written extensively on thyroid function and it well documented that certain cancers spread with high estrogen levels.

So long as the carbohydrate levels are controlled, I would rather have proven safe ingredients like potato and grains. JMO of course.


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## NancyJ

Looks like chewy is discontinuing


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## jjk454ss

Sorry if this in already here, but is there a Store Locator for Farmina? I only see a Distributor finder, nothing for a retail store.


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## VanLee

jjk454ss said:


> Sorry if this in already here, but is there a Store Locator for Farmina? I only see a Distributor finder, nothing for a retail store.


Yes, zoom in on the map Farmina Pet Foods - Happy pet. Happy You. | Happy pet. Happy you.

I was confused about this as well, but do yourself a favor and talk to the guy on Facebook.


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## NancyJ

They have a great person on FB


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> They have a great person on FB


:thumbup:	:thumbup:	

I feel like they have become my best friend


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## jjk454ss

Thanks, I only saw distributors, but now I see retailers. Still 3 hours away. Oh well.


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## NancyJ

There are several mail order oddly I don't see it on that page

Petflow
Sportdogfood
Amazon Prime
dogfooddirect
thehealthypetstore


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## jjk454ss

jocoyn said:


> There are several mail order oddly I don't see it on that page
> 
> Petflow
> Sportdogfood
> Amazon Prime
> dogfooddirect
> thehealthypetstore


Might be an option. I'm leaning towards Victor now based on reviews, ingredients, and price. But I'll check out these online stores for Farmina.

Thanks


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## Linda1270

jocoyn said:


> Looks like chewy is discontinuing


I read somewhere that Chewy was going to discontinue carrying Farmina, not sure why, it looks like it's becoming a popular food, anyway, after reading this, I ordered my bag from SportDogFood.Com and am very pleased with them. I ordered it and received the bag the very next day by FedEx w/free shipping. It also contained two sample bags, one Ancestral grain Chicken and the other Ancestral grain Lamb.

I weaned Tess off of TOTW and on to the Farmina Cod so she is on her 2nd full day of the Farmina Cod only. So far she seems to like it, so I'm hopeful that it will work well for her.


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## Pawsed

It looks as though Chewy is slowly restocking Farmina. At least some of the prices have changed. The chicken variety that I ordered from them before is now more expensive than SportDogFood's pricing, especially with Sport's 5% discount on every order.

I was hoping Chewy would stay with their original pricing, which was very reasonable, the best I could find, but that no longer seems to be the case.


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## DeeBurd

I was just on the Chewy.com website. They have just about all of the flavors now in small & large bags. Some of the products show New at the top. Some of the prices are cheaper(low grain vs grain free). If you order $64.00 worth, they offer free shipping.  I have been trying to get some samples from the distributor themselves with no luck so far(I am not on Facebook). The distributor who I was e-mailing back & forth with said they just shipped out over $20,000 bags to the US stores.  So apparently this food is becoming quite popular in the United States.


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## Pawsed

I think that most prices are less on SportDogFood. They have free shipping to Ohio and other areas for anything over $35.00. And they have coupons on their site for discounts and incredibly fast shipping. Not trying to push them, just stating my experience.


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## NancyJ

I moved to Petflow when Chewy told me there were NO plans on restrocking. Now I see they have but I did not learn it from them. For now their prices still look pretty good and I dealt with them before I had chewy and had no problems at all.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Pawsed said:


> I think that most prices are less on SportDogFood. They have free shipping to Ohio and other areas for anything over $35.00. And they have coupons on their site for discounts and incredibly fast shipping. Not trying to push them, just stating my experience.


Unfortunately, they don't ship everywhere. I ended up buying it on Amazon because SportDogFood doesn't ship to California. 

My dogs are not doing that well on it, though. I started with the Boar, and neither dog had great stools by the time we got to the end of the bag. Halo's were okay, but not as firm as on Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Keefer's were pretty bad, but he'd been on Orijen 6 Fish for years, so I decided to try the Farmina fish based food. Halo's stools are better on the fish than the boar, but still not perfect, and Keef's continued to be soft enough that my hubby, who hoses down the dog run every day, was complaining! I recently bought a bag of BATM, and switched him back cold turkey. Tom said today he had a perfect, firm poop, so I guess he'll be staying on Solid Gold. Still not sure if I'll switch Halo back too, or try another bag of the fish first. I think it's a great food, they love it, and their coats look wonderful, but the sloppy poop is a problem.


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## NancyJ

It really is something how individual the different dogs are in regards to their reaction to food. We have seen that here many times with other great foods where some dogs just don't tolerate them well....


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## llombardo

I see everyone ordering on line but has anyone contacted their local speciality dog stores? I have several by me that don't carry it but can order it for me without problem. I had to do some research and calling around but I now have several options to get it. I have $15.00 coupons for the herring recipe, so I psy $65 a bag and a $10 coupon for the chicken so I pay $60 a bag for that.


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## VanLee

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Unfortunately, they don't ship everywhere. I ended up buying it on Amazon because SportDogFood doesn't ship to California.
> 
> My dogs are not doing that well on it, though. I started with the Boar, and neither dog had great stools by the time we got to the end of the bag. Halo's were okay, but not as firm as on Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. Keefer's were pretty bad, but he'd been on Orijen 6 Fish for years, so I decided to try the Farmina fish based food. Halo's stools are better on the fish than the boar, but still not perfect, and Keef's continued to be soft enough that my hubby, who hoses down the dog run every day, was complaining! I recently bought a bag of BATM, and switched him back cold turkey. Tom said today he had a perfect, firm poop, so I guess he'll be staying on Solid Gold. Still not sure if I'll switch Halo back too, or try another bag of the fish first. I think it's a great food, they love it, and their coats look wonderful, but the sloppy poop is a problem.


You were probably overfeeding the Farmina. My dogs poops are so firm that they roll against the kennel fence on windy days.

Every day when I scoop the food out, I double take because the amount needed to keep the dogs in great condition is so little relatively speaking.

You may wanna try the Low Grain foods, they are wonderful foods too. Grain Free foods are fine but too many people become married to them. Farmina's low grain Cod is the best LID food sold.


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## Pawsed

I agree that it takes much less of this food than any of the other brands we have used. However, my guys didn't do well with the cod formula, even on the reduced amount. They do great with the chicken and lamb, the only other 2 we have tried. It may just be an issue with finding the right protein type for your particular dogs.

Also, they do ship all over. Just not for free.


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## Cassidy's Mom

VanLee said:


> You were probably overfeeding the Farmina.


I was following the recommendation of whoever responds to posts on the Farmina FB page.  It amounted to quite a bit less than they've ever had on any other food, even those with higher kcals per cup. Keefer (75-80 pounds) was getting just over a cup twice a day, and Halo (55/56 pounds) was getting less than 3/4 of a cup twice a day. They were pretty sure I was starving them, lol!


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## Cassidy's Mom

Pawsed said:


> Also, they do ship all over. Just not for free.


That's not what SportDogFood told me when I tried to place an order, they said they don't ship to California. That may have changed in the past few months, this was in December.


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## NancyJ

jocoyn said:


> I moved to Petflow when Chewy told me there were NO plans on restrocking. Now I see they have but I did not learn it from them. For now their prices still look pretty good and I dealt with them before I had chewy and had no problems at all.


I am returning to Chewy based on customer service .


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## CaliGSD3

Just this last week, I decided to try a bag of the Ancestral Grains Chicken, I was pretty doubtful about the quality. Mostly I guess because I've seen a lot of people who were obviously Farmina reps always posting positive things about Farmina food, posing as just regular people... 

That tends to make me a little wary of a company... That and the fact that they make other lines with awful ingredients (corn, meat meal, wheat meal etc.)

But ANYWAYS, I must say I'm impressed with it so far! My dogs stools are a LOT smaller (and less smelly) than when he was on Orijen. Seriously tiny poops like Id imagine he would have on a good raw diet! And he loves the taste, although I think it smells pretty bad! lol if he continues to do well on it, I will be ordering more! 

Definitely won't mind spending $30 less per bag on a food my dog does better on!


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## NancyJ

I am backing out of Farmina for now based on a very dismissive response to my concerns about rancidity. And they don't want to publicly answer anything on their FB page.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> I am backing out of Farmina for now based on a very dismissive response to my concerns about rancidity. And they don't want to publicly answer anything on their FB page.


I think the answers you are looking for will be the same no matter what company or what food. They don't know the answer or don't want to give the answer. This is why I switched to raw. I no longer have to worry about recalls, how food is made, or what ingredients are in the food. The reality is that we are reading a package but we really just don't know.


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## VanLee

"Dismissive" would have been polite for me. 

I had fed Dr. Tim's before and based on the professional use and the fact he is actually an expert with a lot to lose, I feel you are pretty safe with his foods.

In terms of kibble that and Annamaet I have found are the best.


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## llombardo

VanLee said:


> "Dismissive" would have been polite for me.
> 
> I had fed Dr. Tim's before and based on the professional use and the fact he is actually an expert with a lot to lose, I feel you are pretty safe with his foods.
> 
> In terms of kibble that and Annamaet I have found are the best.


Annanaet is a good food, my golden was able to lose a much needed 20 pounds on one of their foods.

I must ask, you pushed Farmina pretty hard not that long ago, what changed?


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## NancyJ

Dr Tim is certainly one of many options. There are some ingredients I don't care for, and the fact that it is limited to chicken in protein choices. Actually the Farmina ingredients are ideal as far as I am concerned and I have had great results on the food but just have recent concerns that have not been addressed.

I was absolutely thrilled with Farmina, had excellent stool and blood panels, but recent bags have, upon being opened, gone rancid while being stored at room temperature, even though they had a year plus to go until expiration date. Since I was so positive, I felt I had to come back and say..hmmm..not so much now. The company does not seem to acknowledge my complaint just stating it is good for 18 months regardless of whether or not it is opened. I am also seeing looser stools and flatulence even on freshly opened bags when I cannot detect a foul odor.


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## VanLee

Dr. Tim's has a GF Pork and Salmon food now and Annamaet has several without chicken. Option, Aqualuk and Manitok.

I was too quick to get on board. Two things happened, one I saw all the crap Farmina makes and second a quality issue that I will not speak about openly.

Both Dr. Tim's and Annamaet use some technical ingredients that are proven to be beneficial. Porcine Plasma is one in Dr. Tim's that is thoroughly researched as an immune system booster and they both use Algae-based Omega 3's now, which are the purest.


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## NancyJ

I decided to go with a bag of Dr Tim's Kinesis all life stages until I find something else to settle on. Dogs gotta eat. I am about this close to raw. I would do Nature's Logic again but the protein content is higher than what I want to feed.

I am still looking for good foods for the other meats because I am not at all keen on canola oil. Actually, don't like flax or beet pulp either. Sugar beets are 100% GMO in this country and that means they are sprayed with herbicides and I imagine the pulp gets a healthy dose of it. 

Chicken meal, brown rice flour, pearled barley, oat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried whole eggs, rice bran, ocean herring meal, catfish meal, flax seed meal, chicken liver meal, dried porcine plasma protein, salmon meal, menhaden fish oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), salt, lecithin, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, canola oil, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, psyllium seed husk, dried chicory root, dried organic kelp meal, yucca shidigera extract, L- lysine, choline cloride, DL-methionine, algae fat product (a source of DHA), taurine, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (stabilized ascorbic acid), glucosamine, vitamin E supplement, L-carnitine, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, beta carotene, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), manganese sulfate, inositol, niacin supplement, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, zinc oxide, biotin, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), calcium pantothenate, potassium iodide (source of iodine), manganous oxide, vitamin B12 supplement, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, rosemary extract.
Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Kinesis provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages.

Metabolizable energy (calculated): 3750 kcal/kg
Kinesis is 415 kcal ME/cup (110g)

Also going to pick up a small bag of victor professional and give that a try.


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## llombardo

jocoyn said:


> I decided to go with a bag of Dr Tim's Kinesis all life stages until I find something else to settle on. Dogs gotta eat. I am about this close to raw. I would do Nature's Logic again but the protein content is higher than what I want to feed.
> 
> I am still looking for good foods for the other meats because I am not at all keen on canola oil. Actually, don't like flax or beet pulp either. Sugar beets are 100% GMO in this country and that means they are sprayed with herbicides and I imagine the pulp gets a healthy dose of it.
> 
> Chicken meal, brown rice flour, pearled barley, oat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried whole eggs, rice bran, ocean herring meal, catfish meal, flax seed meal, chicken liver meal, dried porcine plasma protein, salmon meal, menhaden fish oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), salt, lecithin, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, canola oil, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, psyllium seed husk, dried chicory root, dried organic kelp meal, yucca shidigera extract, L- lysine, choline cloride, DL-methionine, algae fat product (a source of DHA), taurine, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (stabilized ascorbic acid), glucosamine, vitamin E supplement, L-carnitine, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, beta carotene, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), manganese sulfate, inositol, niacin supplement, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, zinc oxide, biotin, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), calcium pantothenate, potassium iodide (source of iodine), manganous oxide, vitamin B12 supplement, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, rosemary extract.
> Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Kinesis provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages.
> 
> Metabolizable energy (calculated): 3750 kcal/kg
> Kinesis is 415 kcal ME/cup (110g)
> 
> Also going to pick up a small bag of victor professional and give that a try.


I had to smile when I read the first couple sentences. You would be a perfect raw feeder, because you know what ingredients are what and like to know what your dog is eating. I was hesitant with raw, but I actually enjoy it and all its benefits.


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> I decided to go with a bag of Dr Tim's Kinesis all life stages until I find something else to settle on. Dogs gotta eat. I am about this close to raw. I would do Nature's Logic again but the protein content is higher than what I want to feed.
> 
> I am still looking for good foods for the other meats because I am not at all keen on canola oil. Actually, don't like flax or beet pulp either. Sugar beets are 100% GMO in this country and that means they are sprayed with herbicides and I imagine the pulp gets a healthy dose of it.
> 
> Chicken meal, brown rice flour, pearled barley, oat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried whole eggs, rice bran, ocean herring meal, catfish meal, flax seed meal, chicken liver meal, dried porcine plasma protein, salmon meal, menhaden fish oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), salt, lecithin, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, canola oil, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, psyllium seed husk, dried chicory root, dried organic kelp meal, yucca shidigera extract, L- lysine, choline cloride, DL-methionine, algae fat product (a source of DHA), taurine, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (stabilized ascorbic acid), glucosamine, vitamin E supplement, L-carnitine, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, beta carotene, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), manganese sulfate, inositol, niacin supplement, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, zinc oxide, biotin, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), calcium pantothenate, potassium iodide (source of iodine), manganous oxide, vitamin B12 supplement, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, rosemary extract.
> Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Kinesis provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages.
> 
> Metabolizable energy (calculated): 3750 kcal/kg
> Kinesis is 415 kcal ME/cup (110g)
> 
> Also going to pick up a small bag of victor professional and give that a try.


Non GMO sugars beets are sprayed as well with more actually. The dogs don't digest the beet pulp, just the bacteria in the gut. That why its in there. Beet pulp is no different than carrots other than beet pulp has no sugar. I bet you are happy with it.


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## NancyJ

There are no non GMO sugar beets in production in the US. They are sprayed with roundup. No they don't digest it but the pesticide residues are still present as it is taken up by the food.


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> There are no non GMO sugar beets in production in the US. They are sprayed with roundup. No they don't digest it but the pesticide residues are still present as it is taken up by the food.


Pesticides and herbicides are still used on NON GMO crops, just different ones. NON GMO doesn't mean organic and actually organic crops can be sprayed with sulfur and copper based pesticides and herbicides and still be labelled organic.

Roundup is one of the safer ones. I can only think of one crop that is not treated usually and that is sorghum.


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## NancyJ

VanLee said:


> Pesticides and herbicides are still used on NON GMO crops, just different ones. NON GMO doesn't mean organic and actually organic crops can be sprayed with sulfur and copper based pesticides and herbicides and still be labelled organic.
> 
> Roundup is one of the safer ones. I can only think of one crop that is not treated usually and that is sorghum.


Mmmm on the Roundup. It was originally classed as a probably carcinogen, then got changed to being "safe" and now is back in the probable carcinogen at least per WHO. Also it is absorbed by the plants and in the plant tissue.

I realize that organic is not necessarily the be all and end all and that there are a whole lot of politics associated with Roundup. Sorghum is good.


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## NancyJ

FWIW I have seen this rancidity issue pop up in other dog foods and encourage anyone to be vocal with the manufacturer when this happens. Had this happen with TOTW a few years back and the vendor, once again, said nothing was wrong but then the recall which included my lot number......That was the straw that broke the camels back there......


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## NancyJ

In all fairness, Farmina has stepped up and asked me for a sample (I don't have) and is following up with the lot number. They say they keep samples from every lot until expiration date.

That said, I have decided rotation, not only of protein sources but also of manufacturers is my going forward plan. Variety! We are finishing up a small bag of Victor Hi Pro (Hi=30% so not really high like in GFs) and the Dr Tim's just arrived here. The Hi Pro *does* have flax but day 2 = great stools. Going to keep a sample of each dog food, take note of expiry date and manufacture date (will contact vendor if not on bag) and "results" ......Not sure I can really avoid flax (sigh) or canola and get the calories I want with protein levels that are not excessive.


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## VanLee

jocoyn said:


> In all fairness, Farmina has stepped up and asked me for a sample (I don't have) and is following up with the lot number. They say they keep samples from every lot until expiration date.
> 
> That said, I have decided rotation, not only of protein sources but also of manufacturers is my going forward plan. Variety! We are finishing up a small bag of Victor Hi Pro (Hi=30% so not really high like in GFs) and the Dr Tim's just arrived here. The Hi Pro *does* have flax but day 2 = great stools. Going to keep a sample of each dog food, take note of expiry date and manufacture date (will contact vendor if not on bag) and "results" ......Not sure I can really avoid flax (sigh) or canola and get the calories I want with protein levels that are not excessive.


Victor is an option. What I don't like is the very high mineral content in the foods. That is an indication the protein sources are cheap. I do like the technical ingredients Victor uses.


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## NancyJ

I actually did send in a request for info on ash content and expiration dating.. Mid America is certainly a state of the art production facility. One thing that did impress me with this bag of food is that, with the high meat and fat content, the odor is not objectionable and the kibbles are not "greasy"

In all fairness, the ash on the Annamaet GFs is rather high at 8.5% in the Red Meat formula. Fromm has always excelled in the world of ash but we have tended towards loose stools though I am throwing some higher calorie foods in the mix so I can feed less total quantity. The lowest calorie food I am considering is 393 per cup. For example the TOTW tends to be low caloric density and high in ash and calcium. Plus my experience with how my complaint about a bad batch of food (which was subsequently recalled) and Diamond's persistent problems left me saying "enough"

I think I am going to do a thread listing all the products I am throwing in my rotation and updating with plus and minus comments. Basically the manufacturers I am looking at are Victor, Eagle Pak, Fromm, Dr Tim, Annamaet, Acana/Origen, and Evanger......though only a select few foods from each group. LOL funny that each dog has consistently staked out their own place to poop so I can even narrow it down to each dog's reaction.

Far more Flax than I like (grrrrrr). To me, flax is a way to up the number for omega 3s in a form not particulary useful to dogs and most likely to go rancid. 

Canola has some concerns with regards to vitamin E depletion, pesticide residue, and damage to the oil itself from the rather aggressive manufacturing process.


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