# Electric collar training



## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Hunter is now 8 months 3 weeks, Our last class of Advance puppy will be next Monday. It wont be until Jan unitl I will have a CGC class to get in to. I plan on doing all of my training daily until the time comes where we will officially learn more, but I am wondering about a EC to practice long distance sits and downs. As of right now, If I ask him to sit from a distance, he runs to me to sit. ( he is such a good dog, most of the time:halogsd 

Any thoughts?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Are you talking about doing stays and then leaving your dog or are you asking your dog to do a sit or down from a distance. If it's the second one, you are asking way too much from a puppy.


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## seyffertc (Sep 8, 2010)

i personally dont like electric collars but if you insist on using one stick it on your skin first and zap yourself if you still want to use it then i guess it wouldnt be to harmful to the dog! i dont mean that to sound mean just as a way of testing what your doing to him first.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Are you talking about doing stays and then leaving your dog or are you asking your dog to do a sit or down from a distance. If it's the second one, you are asking way too much from a puppy.


Yes, that was the intention, also to make the comes from long distance less of a game to him. But thank you, I will most likely then only use it for the comes. 



seyffertc said:


> i personally dont like electric collars but if you insist on using one stick it on your skin first and zap yourself if you still want to use it then i guess it wouldnt be to harmful to the dog! i dont mean that to sound mean just as a way of testing what your doing to him first.


:laugh:

I have.. I did this with those bark collars as well as the traing collars. I Promise, I will not bark more then twice while wearing the barking collar ever again..

I understand your comment, and I dont know really know how to reply.. I will start with, I LOVE MY DOG VERY MUCH. It is VERY improtant for me to know that I can sit, down, or have my dog come with out hesistance for reasons of his safety. If I could get a training collar or pinch collar to work on him from accross the street, I would be all for that. But the likely hood of that is very weak. So, I am going to utilize any and every tool I can to make sure that I have a pup that will listen.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I never used an e collar for this. I have back tied the dog and slowly slowly worked on getting some distance. When tied, they could not run to me. A big reminder to you on this one.... To your pup this is a totally new exercise. They learn at first that "sit" means to sit near us. Go slowly in your gradually moving away. Be sure and mark or click right as he sits because you will have to take amoment to get back to him with reward


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## seyffertc (Sep 8, 2010)

i understand wanting/NEEDING your pups to listen and the importance of that have you tried clicker training its pretty amazing for my chloe so far.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Up front I would like to say.. ANYONES question or comment is welcome, and I hope that at no point I will demonstrate other, I am on this forum for advice and suggestions. I do believe the best commet I have read on this forum though was " the only 1 thing 2 GSD owners will agree on is that the third one is wrong". 

Samba, That is a Very cool idea, I like that alot.. and will start this imediately in the yard.

seyfertc, I have heard many great things about clickers, and have yet to see one sold anywhere. I have been using "yes" instead of a clicker. With the food reward imediately after. I have been told by my trainer that this is similiar to the clicker, and should work.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

How are you going to use the e-collar to enforce the sit from a distance? 

Your puppy has yet learned that sit means sit where ever s/he is so it would be unfair of you to correct him from coming to you to sit. Add in the fact that you don't want him to think he is being corrected from coming over to you then you'll have to retrain the recall. 

Samba had some good advice to gradually increase your distance from the dog when telling him to sit and use the e-collar down the road when you are sure he knows what you mean.


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

I just went through the CGC for my dog. She is 18 months old and she did pass the test. The way I taught her the down command and stay was to use a ball as her reward since she has such a huge ball drive. Have you used her favorite toy to help her understand the down/stay. For the CGC you will be next to your dog when you put her in a down/stay. You then walk away the 20 ft and immediately return to your dog. The other part is that you put your dog in a down/stay and you walk away the 20 ft and immediately recall your dog. I've thought about using an e-collar for training as well...but I'm trying the reward system first. I feel the same way you do about having a dog that listens to commands and is reliable all the time with those commands. 

You can also start on the close sits and stays...then take a couple of steps back and have her sit/stay. When she gets good with that...take a couple of more steps back, etc until she is good with those and so on.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> How are you going to use the e-collar to enforce the sit from a distance?
> 
> Your puppy has yet learned that sit means sit where ever s/he is so it would be unfair of you to correct him from coming to you to sit. Add in the fact that you don't want him to think he is being corrected from coming over to you then you'll have to retrain the recall.
> 
> Samba had some good advice to gradually increase your distance from the dog when telling him to sit and use the e-collar down the road when you are sure he knows what you mean.


I am pretty sure that you and I are on the same page, but I will start with EC up close, then work my way out, I dont want the EC to be a big shock and scare the heck out of him and have him run off, although I dont believe that would be the result, I would want him right next to me when it happens. then work the distance



Pattycakes said:


> I just went through the CGC for my dog. She is 18 months old and she did pass the test. The way I taught her the down command and stay was to use a ball as her reward since she has such a huge ball drive. Have you used her favorite toy to help her understand the down/stay. For the CGC you will be next to your dog when you put her in a down/stay. You then walk away the 20 ft and immediately return to your dog. The other part is that you put your dog in a down/stay and you walk away the 20 ft and immediately recall your dog. I've thought about using an e-collar for training as well...but I'm trying the reward system first. I feel the same way you do about having a dog that listens to commands and is reliable all the time with those commands.
> 
> You can also start on the close sits and stays...then take a couple of steps back and have her sit/stay. When she gets good with that...take a couple of more steps back, etc until she is good with those and so on.


Our class now does this, the trainers also toss balls, bang doors, clap hands, walk around our pups, reach down and touch them, I have only had Hunter "break" once, and although it is not for sure, he was real distracted, the trainers female was in heat. He was always watching the trainer.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am still not sure the EC is going to get you the distance you desire. I have found preventing the dog from being able to get to me much more effective. I don't mind the correct use of an e collar at all. I am just trying to think about this particular exercise.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I thought an EC is considered as a last resort? 
What about using 2 people to work on this- someone with the dog to prevent him from moving and you at a distance giving the command?
What command do you use to stop him from doing something else you don't like from a distance? Like across the yard digging-do you say "no" or "eh eh"? When he is at a distance and you say "sit" and he walks toward you do you say "no" or "eh eh" to redirect? 
I guess what I am asking is what have you already tried?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Oh, no EC is not considered a "last resort" type of tool always. It can be utilized very well for basic training if the correct mode and method are employed. It is not to shock the dog, if that is what you are thinking.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Oh okay, thanks!


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## liv (Sep 1, 2010)

The biggest thing I have discovered with my dog, is make sure you get a good collar, with very tiny increments. I use a Dogtra 1900NC, and my girl's working level is a 3-6 (depending on the day) out of 127! I can't feel anything until about a 10, so I can guarantee that if I had bought a cheap collar with not very many increments, it would have been way too high, and would have done more harm than good.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

just another truck said:


> I have been using "yes" instead of a clicker. With the food reward imediately after. I have been told by my trainer that this is similiar to the clicker, and should work.


Here's what my new trainer told me...

Use Yes as a marker because you should always have your voice. You can't carry a clicker in a trial.

"The clicker is the most powerful tool in training". Be sure you know what you are doing and to reinforce at precisely the right time.


My opinion....
As far as the e-collar...if it's at the right setting then it's no more than a buzz. If you are frying your dog then you need to put it back in the box and take ti back to the store. The setting that a fostered doberman needed was so low that I couldn't even feel it on my arm.

However, If you correct him at a distance, he might come back to you anyways because it's something weird and he'll want to run to you for reassurance.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

"yes" the word can mark well. I have found a clicker very useful for improving dog owner's timing. There is even some evidence that it may affect the dog's brain in a way that is helpful in training, but that needs more research. It is umemotional and fast; and I have found it more effective than my voice in the beginning stages of training when I have to quickly capture the "picture".


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

With the help of this group, as well as using my brothers guidance (K-9 officer) I HOPE to come out of this the right way. I agree with the setting being very low, but again, I will need to see how Hunter responds. 

I thank all of you for your suggestions, and have already started with Hunter tied off behind himself, if front of me and it seems to do well. What I did is took my 30' lead and wrapped it through the fence and back to hunter. It wasn't a great correction, but today it didn't need to, he did real well, today at least.


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

E collar or not, you will still need to work through gradual increases in distance to get the overall desired effect. The E collar is a tool just like a regural collar or a treat. It won't magically make your dog sit at a hundred feet away. You will start with a foot, then add one more, then add two more, etc. It's your preference on what type of reinforcer you use (positive/negative. The method of training, however, will be the same.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jax08 said:


> However, If you correct him at a distance, he might come back to you anyways because it's something weird and he'll want to run to you for reassurance.


Especially if you're going to use the e-collar for recall training, where you WANT the dog to run to you.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I think using 2 people or taking your time with this will be much more effective than using an e-collar.


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## Montana Scout (Sep 27, 2010)

i just started training scout less than a month ago and he has learned sit, lay down (including snaping my finger while pointing down to lay down), stay (only for about 15ft so far, but he's only 10 weeks old) and is really close to learning heel... but it took a LOT of treats, i think about 10lbs worth.. but also if he is in a new environment with a lot of noise or visual/olfactory excitement he doesn't listen very well... but if i were you i would just find his sweet spot (toys, treats, lovins)... me personally would never use pain to teach... except if he bites me i bite back :wub:


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

What exactly is back tying? Is this using a post in the ground the leash goes through so you can give a correction from a distance on a long lead?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

In this case I think it just means that the dog is tied to something so they have to remain in place. Doesn't really matter what it is they're tied to, and corrections aren't necessarily involved, it's just to keep the dog from coming to you when you're working on distance commands. You could do the same thing with a second person to hold the leash for you.

You can also back tie and use a long line for corrections, but I don't think that's what Samba is referring to.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks Debbie,
We are about to start work on sitz and platz on a long lead and it was suggested to get a tieout , put the lead through and this way if the dog chooses not to listen you can enforce it? I jumped on this thread because folks were talking about commands from a distance.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Good Morning Reene,

Well, I dont know how it was meant, because what I did was use a long lead wrapped around a post and brough back to Hunter, so, yes, I could correct from a distance.

Not sure it was right, but it worked..so far..for now..we shall see..Love my dog.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I really have not had to use corrections in this exercise. If the dog is not doing what I ask, either he doesn't understand and I have to make it easier or his motivation is not high enough and I need to address that.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

I just did a quick, light correction with a nop, repeated, and he sat, he downs real well, but going from teh down to ta sit, he didnt seem to get it. yet.. but he is doing good.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Good. Go back to being closer, lure him up from the down to the sit. Help him understand that exercise as that too is completely different to a dog's brain than a sit. It is a completely different exercise. With a few repitions of being helped, I bet he catches on and can begin to work on some distance.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, what about asking a dog to platz form 30ft? Should I work with doing it out of motion? It was suggested to use a tie out and put the leash through it this way after you say the command you have a way to enforce it if he doesn't comply. Using two people having one stand near the dog and do the correction for you if needed was frowned upon because the dog is smart enough to comply when he knows someone is there to be sure he does....this is what I was told yesterday at OB class. 
Pat have you tried just the exercise of sit/down down/sit doing several in a row quickly. I did "puppy push ups" with a clicker and treats...and I still do every now and then because they look at you funny going from a down to a sit.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

If I am having trouble getting a behavior, I don't immediately jump to this idea of "compliance". That is seldom the issue and really seldom with my good GSDS. I am not going to start thinking about who or what I need to "make" the dog do it. 

I usually find the exercise is unclear to the dog. Sure, you can make it more clear with corrections but for the performance I desire in my dogs, I prefer to save the compulsion until the behavior is well learned. It takes very little then and has little fall out because of this approach. 

If a dog is having trouble, go back in the exercise, lower the criteria. Help the dog learn. Once he is 80 to 90% reliable at that level, then you can up the criteria. It is more about learning to read what the dog needs than applying a certain compulsive technique, IMO. I like to utilize a good motivator also. Sure, escaping correction can be a motivator but generally I don't like what I get when that is the foundation. 

Sure, there are plenty of trainers out there in that mode though.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Pat have you tried just the exercise of sit/down down/sit doing several in a row quickly. I did "puppy push ups" with a clicker and treats...and I still do every now and then because they look at you funny going from a down to a sit.


Yeah.. and some mornings, I get puppy push ups just by grabbing the feed bag...I am not much help, I start laughing..


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

First off, personally, I don't worry about a lot of distance work (notice I said a lot) until I am absolutely sure my dog is solid on the close stuff.

The dog must be able to do the behavior asked for immediately around all sorts of distractions and silly stuff up close and really well. If I don't have this, I am not moving to the end of the leash, let alone 30 feet!

Up close I get the desired response to the command arund all sorts of distractions in all types of environments. Once you have that, the distance stuff is really much easier.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

ok, thank you for the suggestions. I can't help but agree, I didn't like the fact that Jake was on the end of a 30 ft lead yesterday and when I said platz and he just sat there the trainer corrected him. It didn't seem right, like I need a few weeks to get him doing it out of motion first with out a correction. Like everyone is say make sure he learns it first...
Sorry for the hijack Pat.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

No problem Reene.. alot of your questions have been mine as well, so jump in..I am still learning.


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## Roxygsd (Sep 8, 2010)

Pat

Just curious where you are training your dog. We trained at Sportman's Dog Training Academy. The CGC testing there doesn't allow the use of treats or toys. This was a pain since the 2 previous classes were treat/toy driven. Roxy was 8 mos. when we tried the CGC test and failed the stay with the trainer and owner leave for 3 minutes. But I think she was in the butt head stage at the time of the test. We want to test her again but we can't get her to do all commands without the use of a ball. She will do anything for a ball.

In regards to the EC, our personal trainer recommend one that just has a low nick capability. These cost more, but thats all most dogs need. We are reluctant to use it for training since Roxy is on already on a electric fence collar and think it may confuse her.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

The CGC test should not allow treats or toys or correction collars anywhere it is given. Training for it certainly can though. It is not a test I particularly push my pups for though.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Roxygsd said:


> Pat
> 
> Just curious where you are training your dog. We trained at Sportman's Dog Training Academy. The CGC testing there doesn't allow the use of treats or toys. This was a pain since the 2 previous classes were treat/toy driven. Roxy was 8 mos. when we tried the CGC test and failed the stay with the trainer and owner leave for 3 minutes. But I think she was in the butt head stage at the time of the test. We want to test her again but we can't get her to do all commands without the use of a ball. She will do anything for a ball.
> 
> In regards to the EC, our personal trainer recommend one that just has a low nick capability. These cost more, but thats all most dogs need. We are reluctant to use it for training since Roxy is on already on a electric fence collar and think it may confuse her.


Good Morning,

this is where I was sent.. and still go

The Canine Workshop's Home Page


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

We weren't allowed to use treats or toys either during our CGC test either. But we were able to use lots of verbal commands.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

If your dog won't perform even basic obedience (CGC) without the use of treats or toys, there is a problem in the training. I don't believe they allow the use of either in the training, and if there is a facility certifying and allowing treats/toys then they are in the wrong.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Well, I dont know how it goes for anyone else, but, what we are doing is using treats for anything new. I use treats as well when I am just "working him" in the house. On our walks, I dont not use treats, but we go through all of his exercises, including three minute downs, three minute sits, and a 3 minute stand. With his 3 minute stand, I am also working on his "Pose". 

Going back to the CGC, what was said was " I am not able to attend the CGC class until Jan" . This is due to school right now. Hopefully my next class doesnt come up on a Wednesday as well, because of School I am missing out on this session of CGC, and I am also missing out on my sons Den meeting for the Scouts. 

As far as a Strong Base. YES, I agree, he needs his sits and down and stays to be strong while he is heeling, or working close to me, thankfully they are. The ONLY problem that I have had with his sits is that he likes to place his but off to the side, so I now place my hand next to his hip to guide him straight down.

What am I missing, I am going to use the suggestion of using something to anchor Hunter, and work my distance from him, and YES, I WILL USE TREATS with a "yes" as a marker. Hopefully not forever. I will not be using 2 people, because most of my family doesnt want to come out side and play in this weather, so, it is Hunter and I for now. He enjoys it, so do I.

I will be looking deeper into the EC, and I am sure that it will be used, but not anytime soon, unless he really pulls something off that shows we can go longer distances and he does well. 

I will also be using the collar as he is to my side for the first week, 2, what ever it takes for him to know what it is, and for him NOT to be afraid of it. 

I think that covers it, thank you all for your help!!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Achielles UD said:


> First off, personally, I don't worry about a lot of distance work (notice I said a lot) until I am absolutely sure my dog is solid on the close stuff.
> 
> The dog must be able to do the behavior asked for immediately around all sorts of distractions and silly stuff up close and really well. If I don't have this, I am not moving to the end of the leash, let alone 30 feet!
> 
> Up close I get the desired response to the command arund all sorts of distractions in all types of environments. Once you have that, the distance stuff is really much easier.


I completely agree with this. Solid to me means: The dog can change positions on command. I can move around and when I say "sit" (or "down"), the dog will immediately do so regardless of my position and movement. I can turn my back to the dog and just by using my voice, ask him to sit, down, and stand and to move from one position to another.

Until a dog is solid up close, i would not do anything with distance.


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

I agree with Pat...we used treats and toys to get our dogs to do the commands first and then we worked on weaning them off the treats/toys so they would do the commands without them during the test. 

I also use treats to train my dog at home and once she understands the commands...I try weaning her off the treats as well. 

Good luck with your training.


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## Roxygsd (Sep 8, 2010)

Weaning off treats/toys is the hard part. We are about 90-95% there. I should have listened to the breeder: GSDs work for free. They are devoted dogs. Don't start with treats or toys.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Its funny you say this, Hunter use to work strictly for praise!! But all of the trainers kept pushing the treats. I went to the trainers to learn, I am not bothered by this, just find it funny. 

I do get a kick out of the "puppy pushups" that I get when I break out the snack bag. 




Roxygsd said:


> Weaning off treats/toys is the hard part. We are about 90-95% there. I should have listened to the breeder: GSDs work for free. They are devoted dogs. Don't start with treats or toys.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> Here's what my new trainer told me...
> 
> Use Yes as a marker because you should always have your voice. You can't carry a clicker in a trial.
> 
> "The clicker is the most powerful tool in training". Be sure you know what you are doing and to reinforce at precisely the right time.


 This is a bit of a misconception about clicker training. No you can't use a clicker in the ring but the clicker is only really useful during the training phase anyway. That means by time you go into the ring, you should be long past clicking for the behavior you want - it should be on cue and pretty reliable. It isn't even a matter of weaning them off of it because once your dog knows a behavior, you simply stop using the clicker for that exercise.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

There is nothing wrong with using treats for training - what I said was your dog shouldn't need treats to respond. Treats are great for training some behaviors and great as rewards for almost all behaviors, but the CGC should be taken by a dog that is solid on at least those behaviors. So what I was saying was that you shouldn't have to use treats or toys to be able to get your dog to pass the CGC, because it indicates the dog isn't ready to take the CGC yet.

Just didn't want to be misunderstood!  Treats/toys are good rewards, not bribes.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> This is a bit of a misconception about clicker training. No you can't use a clicker in the ring but the clicker is only really useful during the training phase anyway. That means by time you go into the ring, you should be long past clicking for the behavior you want - it should be on cue and pretty reliable. It isn't even a matter of weaning them off of it because once your dog knows a behavior, you simply stop using the clicker for that exercise.


I don't think you understood what I was saying.


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

A real quick bragg.. Today, 150' away, my nephew holding Hunter, I yelled, sit.. he did!!! I then yelled out down.. He did.. I most likely acted like a fool out there in the sub.. but they will get over it.. I know I will.. Good Boy Hunter!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Absolutely nothing wrong with treats and praise, even for dogs who will work for praise. I mean I am a good "employer" and I pay well for work well done. Treats are a great way to begin behaviors with little puppies. It can all be weaned off. The learning becomes second nature to them and the behaviors become habit with enough training. 

Everything has to be relinquished in the ring. You can't talk, you can't correct, you can't reward during the exercise, even have to give up the leash eventually. That doesn't mean it is not okay to use your voice and your leash in training... thus the same with treats and toys.

Good on Hunter, too!!


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

My trainer has a really cool method he employs before we move to e-collar. I will see if I can explain it as it kind of requires a sketch. Ok, get a really long lead and a dog tie out (the ring you put into the ground). Attache lead to dog and then run lead through the ring in the ground, walk away. If the dog (this work on stay) gets up you can still make a correction from a distance but the ring keeps him from going to far. Does that make sense?


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

I went to a trainer that uses an e-collar it is the dogtra brand, it is a stim collar also. I think a lot of people when they think electric collar they think shock, that is not what this collar does. It works exactly like a muscle stimulation pad, and at the working level it is barely even detectable on your hand. Before being allowed to take the collar home with my dog though the trainer made sure that I knew how to use it, how to adjust the level to a working level, and what is too high. Working level is important, because in some situations the level may be too low or too high depending on how focused the dog is, or the environment it is surrounded by. I must say, considering my puppy refused to eat treats during training, it has been a blessing for us. Our puppy hardly even notices that she is wearing the collar after 2 months of training with it, and actually gets excited to put it on in the mornings. Now it may seem that the dog will not react if you don't use the collar but this is not true, there are many times where my girlfriend or I don't have the remote in hand, and there is still immediate obedience from the dog in most situations in the home. 

There is also a pager mode on the collar, which simply sends a vibration only to command the dog, I've seen other people use it, but I have had best results with the nick button on the controller, and the rate at which our pup has learned new commands has been surprisingly fast for us.

If you have any questions about using one, or if you are interested you can pm questions if I don't know I'm sure our trainer does and would be happy to help.

Good Luck!

--Jeff


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

just another truck said:


> A real quick bragg.. Today, 150' away, my nephew holding Hunter, I yelled, sit.. he did!!! I then yelled out down.. He did.. I most likely acted like a fool out there in the sub.. but they will get over it.. I know I will.. Good Boy Hunter!!


WhooHoo! Good job, Hunter!


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## alaman (May 3, 2006)

Really simple method works for me. Teach the dog to sit or down on command by your side. Then increase the distance for the command. Just go out with the dog and let it wander from you. Then command to sit or down. If it does, praise. If not get the dog and take it to the spot the dog was in, corrrect it for not obeying, give the same command, and have the dog do it. Tell it to stay and walk away. Repeat as necessary until trained.

No E.C. needed





just another truck said:


> Hunter is now 8 months 3 weeks, Our last class of Advance puppy will be next Monday. It wont be until Jan unitl I will have a CGC class to get in to. I plan on doing all of my training daily until the time comes where we will officially learn more, but I am wondering about a EC to practice long distance sits and downs. As of right now, If I ask him to sit from a distance, he runs to me to sit. ( he is such a good dog, most of the time:halogsd
> 
> Any thoughts?


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

First, I'd have to say that there are many great ideas in this post...for me, I previously thought using an EC would be more antagonistic to a large breed dog like a GSD...as opposed to using it for training hunting dogs not to run off. Two weeks ago, we bought an EC and I have to say, it's absolutely wonderful when used "properly".

First, I agree with previous posters that start from short distances and work your way up. This morning I had our 6 mo staying while I walked about 75 yards away....and he came when called and did great. I can also get him to sit and stay while he's around 75 yards from me....BUT, it took me two months to get to that distance.

Also, it's important to find what motivates your dog the most. In our case, we started with treats, hot dogs, and small bits of real meat. But recently I've found that I get the best results by using his favorite toy as a reward when he follows my commands.

I only use the EC as a reinforcing tool and never a punishment tool. I'll crank it up when he's doing something that may cause him harm....like going to taunt the two pit bulls next door, trying to run into the road, and chasing raccoons and coyotes, etc. Around the house for annoying issues, it's set to a minimal setting at best. Of course, we all have used it on ourselves at different settings to experience first hand what we're doing to the dog.

Lastly, we always use our tone button first which emits a sound, if that doesn't work, then we'll give him a tickle. After two weeks, we're finding that the tone is enough to get him to respond for 90% of most problems.

The point is, read the manuals that come with the EC, test it on yourself and see what your limits would be, and use it as a reinforcing tool only


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## just another truck (Jun 7, 2010)

Well, Speaking to my brother, and using what i hope is some good sense, the EC has done 1 thing for me right now, it is has allowed me to call Hunter at anytime, during any event or activity, and he will "heel' nearly perfect. 

When I say anytime/any event, this includes his favorite ball, the neighbor dog who comes to play, and even a Coyote Hunter went after. 

When I started, I used the lowest setting, and worked slowly to the point of response. Once the I got the response, I turned it back down. The settings are .5, 1 ,2 ,3 ,4 5. Our normal working range is .5, IF/WHen needed, but I have not used it for a recall in about a week.

I will be trying other commands shortly, and then working the collar into it, but so far, the collar appears to be a usefull tool. And yes, I have tried all 6 settings, and promise, I will come if called while wearing the collar. Hunter however has not made that connection, hopefully never will.


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## jmoney (Jul 21, 2010)

that is wonderful, I use the stim instead of the electric collars, just because I can't even detect the stimulation on my own hand at the levels that our dog woks at. But when used properly they are awesome tools, I wouldn't get rid of mine ever, and believe it or not our dog love it when its time for her to get the collar on...probably because that means its time to play for her, which is training for me.


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