# Tess



## kathyb

I have talked to Tess a few times over the past few months as she took in a GSD that I needed rescue for a GSD that no one else stepped up for because of medical issues. Tess made all the arrangements for this dog all I had to do was get her to transport. She called ahead and talked to the vet that had seen this dog so she knew what had to be done for her. I was updated on her every week on how she was doing and even called the vet that the dog was seeing. This dog, Kira, has now a wonderfull home and is doing great.


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## TESS

Kira was my pleasure to deal with and is in a home that has three great older children, a big fenced yard and regularly takes Kira on walks and to a dog park where she has been learning not just to love the people around her but other dogs too. She is on a third her meds than when she first started, has put on weight and does everything anyone thought a non-PF dog could do.
She goes to work everyday with her "mom" who runs her own business. She goes everywhere in the house and loves every minute of not being in a back yard pen. She is a beautiful dog in and out. It made me cry to drop her off to her new home but her dancing around and wagging ALL the time convinced me that is exactly where she needed to be. Her family follows up with my vet and her condition is barely a condition anymore.
Thanks Kathy for working so hard for her and for all the dogs you help. Yours is such a hard job to be so available all the time for those you are called upon to help. If a dog needs an advocate they surely have the best one in you.
I emailed you her pics and will send more as the family emails me every week with her progress and some wonderful candid shots.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## HeidiW

Sounds like you both did a wonderful job and made this rescue a success!!! Thank you both!!


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## Karin

What a great story! Thanks to both of you for helping this sweetie!


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## TESS

Funny though - there really is no "how to" book. We had an adoption weekend here and I was not going to bring Kira out to meet people as she was still suffering so badly with her PF and I would not adopt her out given the medical instability. I did bring her out for a few minutes after all and she was EFFERVESCENT!!!! The family that adopted her several weeks later fell in love with her instantly. I wrote that she be continued at my vet and I have full access to medical treatment and I get to take her back for any reason RIGHT IN THE CONTRACT.
These people did what they promised to do in their contract and she has seen my vet (who has a lot of experience with this condition and successful treatment) and they are as happy as a family should be.
On the other hand the Maine adopter of a dog named Queen - for him I put in his contract he must return the adopted dog if for any or no reason he can no longer keep her. Did he do that? NOPE.
This adopter applied early this year or late last year. He was training to be a canine trainer with a very good Canine Trainer in NY. The adopter was in Maine but lived not too far from one of the former volunteers with the start up of this rescue. At the time I was doing the pulling and vetting and transport and she was evaluating adopters and calling references. Since she left earlier this year we have been doing all of the adopting from here and there are three other people helping from here in PA.
Our information sheet to apply to adopt a dog is pretty standard from what I have seen. Granted we are new and were newer back then so I only had a few forms from other rescues with which to start. Ours look pretty standard from what I have seen.
The Maine volunteer checked all the Queen adopter's references (including the K9 trainer and the vet and others) and there were two we also checked here from PA. The Maine volunteer I think also met him and had significant contact with him and actually adopted him one of her own fosters whom she loved very much. So I am sure he proved to the Maine volunteer that he was worthy.
This adopter then saw a photo of Queen on the internet. Queen was from AL and the Maine volunteer had become friendly with the adopter and asked me about the dog. I contacted the AL person who offered to pull Queen and she asked I also take a starved, abandoned GSD mix she took in. When the volunteer pulled Queen from Animal Control she apparently had the microchip put in her own name and not mine - so I am not privy to any information.
I arranged transport from AL for those two and another dog but the neglected gsd mix was afraid of men (unbeknownst to me) and jumped out of the car with the first aranged transport. The AL lady then took both dogs out and refused transport. The AL foster though had also complained about holding Queen at her house as Queen was constant energy (which is what the adopter was looking for), made a mess of her coffee table, was too energetic and just overall disrupting her already "hectic with dogs" house. She wanted the dogs out ASAP.
It took me a little over a week in all to get another transport. Then the AL foster complained about getting a vet certif and also picked up a different dog to come here from AL from a vet it was at without getting a certificate and then refusing to get the dogs to the new tranporter. I had to ask another volunteer to go to the AL foster's house to get all the dogs - Quite a trip. But ultimately all the dogs did have health certs and were taken from the foster to the transport and arrived. Two went to wonderful homes not far from me. Queen was met by me and then to my vet again (her third vet) to be sure and then to her Maine Adopter and his family.
Well the adopter for Queen drove all the way from Maine with his family in the truck - all of whom I met. He loved her. He signed another adoption contract and went off to eventually go home. He emailed me pictures of her and called a number of times to tell me how happy he was and how smart she was.
Then in mid April I received a call from the AL foster who had erroneously put Queen's microchip in her name. According to the AL foster she was called by a lady who claimed she bought the dog from a man. in Maine This was the first I had knowledge of any of that.
I asked for the lady's contact information but the AL foster did not get any info. I tried to reach my adopter and he moved, changed phone numbers and was laid off. The former Maine volunteer called the wife's work and the wife claimed she did not know what were her responsibilities.
Well I have sent searches ouf for the adopter and the new purchaser and have had no luck finding either. I had hijacked the other thread - kind of by accident - to figure out what our three PA adoption people now can do to avoid this happening in the future. I keep thinking other rescues have been through similar things - or may be they like me just don't know but they are going through such things.
I appreciate the importance of the reference checks which I know, since we have been doing them here, are very thorough. I appreciate how important the home visit is. I also know that the people who do the adopter contact from my office in PA do a great job and are constantly in touch.
Is there anything else that can be done so that the Queen story can have the happy ending the Kira story has? I know how to write a contract - short of law - I don't know how to make people obey it.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## HeidiW

so Queen is missing. Have you checked the local Maine classified called UncleHenrys.com There were a few listed shepherds that were from some mystery rescue, I called them and it seemed odd, someone else had problems with them.


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## TESS

What is Uncle Henry's? Yes Queen was sold/rehomed, and I have no idea to where and AL foster is not responding. But she did not get the lady's name anyway.
I will look at unclehenry.com and try to figure it out. 
Thanks.
I have spent the last several weeks trying to find the adopter and no luck at all. And because the chip is not in my name well I cannot even begin.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## kathyb

Kira before pictur


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## kathyb

After, Kira on her way to work with mom.


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## TESS

I like the big smile in the kitchen pic!!!
Tess in Philadelphia


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## skyizzy

Have you tried to take the adopter to court? Re Queen


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## TESS

I cannot find the adopter from me and I do not know the name of the person who bought Queen from him. 
Tess in Philadelphia


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## TESS

Kira at work


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## TESS

Kira in the Kitchen


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: Tess Phila PAThe former Maine volunteer called the wife's work and the wife claimed she did not know what were her responsibilities.


If you know where the wife works at can't you talk to her and find out what happened to the dog? Will she not talk to you?


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## TESS

She now won't talk to me. I tried that - messages were left.
I can try again.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Prinzsalpha

Your an attorney arent you? Can you not present her with a legal document to scare the bejeezums out of her for contact info for the dh?


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## TESS

I am an attorney in PA. There are certain limits to what I can do with a pleading out of state. 
My problem is the only known good address I have is at wife's work and since she did not sign the contract well there are also limits whether I am writing to her or another local attorney is writing to her at her work. That is all I can say.
I have written letters which have been returned.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## HeidiW

Kira, looks healthy and gorgeous! May I ask what PH stands for?


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## Jazy's mom

PF stands for Perianal Fistulas (I think I spelled that correctly). It is a condition that causes fistulas on the rectum of the dog. It can be very painful for the dog to use the bathroom and if left untreated the dog will develop scar tissue that can lead to a blockage.


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## shilohsmom

Thats great about Kira and those are beautiful pics. Thats awful about Queen though, but wasn't there another dog you sent to him...I remember reading/hearing something about another dog being sent to a K9 trainer in Maine....do you know where she is? Are there personal referrances that you can contact for friends that know him? I remember checking referrances before and it listed "Personal referrances' as well and I called those people, asking how long they knew so and so and all kinds of questions. Do you ask for personal referrances as well? Have you tried to file a police report? The police might not due much but chances are they can find where he moved to, talk to him and then you could get his address. I imagine you've already informed all the other rescues of this person's actions to make sure he's on their Do Not Adopt list as well in case he tries it with them. Poor Queen and what was that other dogs name? Maybe we can bump both of their threads to the top and center in case anyone sees them-it might help!


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## TESS

That one did not go to him. That one stayed with me and then was adopted to a family about 20 minutes from me. Another dog went through him to a different adopter but that one has signed papers and everything checked out on the person.
We do ask for personal references and I believe those were checked. I can ask the Maine lady but she was pretty thorough. May be I can re-call the references and see if I can make a dent in this ... see what happens. I did call the police and they seem rural and somewhat disinterested.
No I did not even think to inform other rescues - good good idea. Is there a place on this board to do that? 
Thank you for all the good ideas.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## shilohsmom

Talk about lucky!!! Last I heard that was where she was headed...who knows maybe you sensed something might have been up??? If so I would always follow my instincts. I know that's not what this thread is about (I'll add to that later) but since she is so close to you do you have any updated pics of her??? She was just so precious-I bet she looks even better now









Back to your concern though, in your Adoption Contract I'm sure it has a no transfer/sale clause. If the contract is breeched by the adopter than they will be held responsible for payment of damages such as attorney fees and court costs'. I'm sure the police would help you track down this person if you insist and I sure would insists!
I just had a thought, if he moved and he sold his house then the reality company might have his forwarding address!!! And I would also follow up on those Personal referances. People do move around but they usually keep their friends. I'd also contact the dog training companies in his general area and ask each of them if he is working there by chance now. Good luck and please post a picture of our little girl...I'm sure everyone would love to see a new pic of her!!!!
As always,


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## TESS

Well let me take all of those thoughts one at a time. I will redo reference checks on him and if I can his wife also. Actually all my feelings about him and his family were not at all negative. So no I had no special inkling about him. I trusted my Maine volunteer and I found nothing in my contacts with him that suggested he would surreptitiously violate his contract.
I can check his wife's former contacts. We do have some information on her too - yes there is a no transfer clause but I cannot find him and UNFORTUNATELY as I stated before the police did not seem inclined to care. The adopter had told me he was friends with the police chief out his way.
You cannot sue without an address of the person against whom you are bringing suit. I know I get attorney's fees but not damages as those as the law defines them are not readily assessable in this circumstance. I am not sure how Maine defines that term but in PA damages are not readily available unless there is a certainty to it. That is not present here.
And exactly which dog are you talking about getting a picture of? The only one I ever posted about going to a dog trainer was a male. He is certainly handsome but not "precious" I assure you.
FOSTER ADOTPIONS: So I guess the next topic I should start to cover is an errant foster trying to keep a dog or waylay a dog without having an approved adoption from the rescue and with the rescue being ultimately responsible for the dog. Different case entirely (nothing to do with Maine) but how do you guys handle that risk? Has anyone had that happen? I have so many fosters that wind up wanting to keep/adopt their dogs. Do you have contracts with fosters, is it understood generally that a foster does not get to interfere in the adoption by the rescue whatever they choose to do with the adoption of a dog or do you insist oon a foster to adopt program or do you folks handle it differently still? We have a foster to adopt program but for fosters who are not part of such program - how do you deal with it?
Tess in Philadelphia


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## shilohsmom

Hopefully you'll come up with something new otherwise you know you did the best you could. 
The little girl I was referring to was Summer....you have to admit she sure was precious!!! I had heard she had gone to him as well. Do you have any updates on her? I'll never forget her little face as she looks so much like my little Shoshi girl








Can't help you with your other concerns but I'm sure others will have some feedback for you. 
Many hugs,


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## TESS

Fostering is a tough thing because what you want to have by definition is someone who cares enough about dogs to to have someone else truly be able to love her or him. Like a surrogate I would imagine.
I can see bonds growing with my fosters and the dogs they have for me I just have to wonder (particularly since many of them talk about wanting to adopt their fosters at least for the first few weeks they have them): How do rescues deal with that issue?
I know we are here busily taking applications and checking references and doing home visits and there have been times I have promised a dog to an approved adopter only to have the foster want not to have that happen. How is this handled properly? I just don't know enough to know how to respond. So far mostly crises have been averted but what is the proper way to handle that? I would love to hear more from the experienced rescue folks on this one. All ideas welcome!!!!!!
Tess in Philadelphia


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## alportbury

> Originally Posted By: Tess Phila PA
> I know we are here busily taking applications and checking references and doing home visits and there have been times I have promised a dog to an approved adopter only to have the foster want not to have that happen. How is this handled properly?


As far as GSRA is concerned, our foster homes have first dibs on any dog they foster. Heck - they put in the time, love and energy into rehabilitating the dog so who am I to then turn around and say you can't adopt the dog? All of our fosters go through the same screening process that our adopters do. Therefore, I know that regardless of whether or not the foster parent or an adopter takes the dog, the dog will be in a loving, responsible and GSD-smart home. 

The issue of having an adopter disappointed when a "promised" dog is adopted by the foster is a non-issue with GSRA. Firstly, adopters aren't promised ANY dog. It is completely up to the dog's foster parent to whom their foster dog is adopted. Afterall, they know the dog better than anyone else, so it makes sense that they are the ones making the final decision on where the dog should live. Second to this though is GSRA's policy of not adopting any dog out until it has been in foster care a MINIMUM of 2 weeks. As I'm sure we all know, dogs change a lot when they are finally safe and sound. A shy, reclusive shelter dog can flourish into an exuberant wild-child given the right environment. To ensure we make good placements for our dogs - and that their adoptive humans are well matched to them - we have the dogs chill out with their foster family for at least 2 weeks ( sometimes longer) so that they can get a feel for the dog. During that time, the foster is asked to decide whether or not this is a dog that they may want to adopt. If there is a chance they do, we give them an additional period of time to make up their mind. If they decide against adopting we make the dog "public". That way, no one gets their hopes up only to have them dashed. Sure it takes a little more time to get the dog adopted that way, but we aren't in a race







We just want to make sure the dogs end up in the most perfect home possible.

The only down side I see to a foster home adopting their dog is that we often lose a foster home that way







But other than that I don't see a problem. The dog is being adopted by a fantastic person or family - how could that be a bad thing? Besides, we caution all our adopters not to get their hearts set on a particular dog as many things can get in the way of their adopting that specific dog. I tell them to trust in fate - when the time is right, the PERFECT dog for them will come along. 

Andrea
GSRA


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## TESS

Thank you so much - I appreciate that. Fosters are great and without them we would be nothing and there would be no dogs to adopt. However, I am not comfortable having a foster make that decision without all of us too. Maybe since I have not been at this that long and do not know the fosters that long we are less willing to cede that decision. We as a rescue also have alot invested in the dog - we usually care for them here before they go off to foster, have watched their steps from removal from death row to vetting and transport and temporary staying and we constantly keep in touch on different devlopmental and health issues. We - barring emergencies - do not take fosters away for 30 days unless they are going to their homes we are confident in - then it can be earlier depending upon the circumstances. We too use the same evaluation method for fosters as we do for adopters so they are usually great people to have a dog.
But that is why they make vanilla and chocolate. There are always different ways of doing things. And I thank you for sharing how you do things so I can learn from it.
I was referring more to the foster who never says they want to adopt the dog but instead there is a plan in place for an adoption and someone is told they can adopt the dog they have been waiting for and they are happy and eagerly getting ready for the arrival. Then the foster suddenly decides they want to keep the dog to adopt her/him themselves. That is not such a good thing.
I don't know if anyone else has had this occur. It has occurred here or started to occur with us a few times - not always. It seems like when dogs are ready to be moved out of foster some of the fosters I have had suddenly and pretty intensely don't want them to go. I can understand the care and love and attachment - I think the issue is the way the foster expresses that - the way it is done that is important. Is there a normal way to deal with that if that occurs or maybe it is just us that has that happen. It is probably a dumb question.
I also don't want to disappoint the adopter who is planning on the addition who then thinks less of the rescue. So there is another struggle I do not know how to proceed properly.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Prinzsalpha

Proper placement of the foster dog is the only way the foster person will allow their foster dog to go. Also letting the foster family get involved in the application process helps. They want to make sure their dog they have devoted time and energy and love to gets the perfect match.


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## TESS

We do include them in the adoption and have them meet the adopters/phone calls with them. Any other way that is properly done? Have you ever had foster insist on adopting the dogs despite the plan in place (the foster agreed with at one point) to adopt to a particular person? May be my dogs are just SOOOOO loveable that there is no other way.








Thanks - you guys are awesome!!!! The feedback is tremendous. We can write a "how to" book yet!!!!
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Prinzsalpha

Our president has absolute last say so, although she always defers to the board for their input.


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## RebelGSD

There are no easy answers.

As to the dog that got sold - these contracts are very hard to enforce at distance, as you have seen. Experiences like this make some rescues and rescuers extremely cautious as you have noticed on this board initially. One thing you could try is go through the microchip company. I am sure you have documentation that the dog belongs to rescue (shelter paperwork) as well as your contract.
Since the dog is no longer with the people who adopted him, you may consider him stolen. If the microchip company has the information about the whereabouts of the stolen dog, there should be a way to force them to provide it to you. The AL voluneer served under your rescue, so the microchip being in her name should not be that big of a deal in this context.

The sad part is that situations like this are impossible to prevent. People lie to rescues all the time. Anybody can find three people singing praises to them. I bet what it boils down to was: if they returned the dog to you, they would have lost the money they paid for the adoption and they recouped some of it by selling the dog. An good area rescue lost a dog a year ago. The adopters dumped the dog at the shelter and it got euthanized there - they never even tried to return it to rescue.

As to the microchip: it helps but it is not a big safety really. The shelters don't really check microchips for owner surrenders. That means that the dog can get euthanized even if the microchip is registered in your name.

I think the best safety net is keeping in touch with the adopters.
If we hear someone complaining about the dog they adopted, we offer to give them the money back to get the dog back (even though the contract says that the donation is non-refundable) and use some reverse psychology to convince them to return the dog to us. I don't think that there is a perfect system. We try to stay in touch with adopters as much as possible, some people consider this an intrusion though. It seems, whatever you do, you are likely to end up being the bad guy.


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## TESS

Thank you so much for your thoghts. It makes me cry to think of such a horrible end. BUT you cannot make people be good if they are intent on being otherwise. Free will and all.
I like the refundable part. That is what pains me - may be that was the issue in my case. Maybe even offering to refund a portion would have meant a better result for the dog. I honestly just did not even know. We try to keep in touch but some people are almost weirded out by that. I fostered a puppy whom I still miss but know he went to the best home on the whole planet - but everytime I call I keep thinking his adopters fell like I am hounding them and think I want him back. Emotionally my whole family kind of does want him back but when we maturely reflect he is in the best hands and we would never do that. 
This is quite a job. I am not sure people understand how much so. You can do all the right things (not that I have by the way - but I try) and still not have the right result.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## MollyM

I am not sure where to begin with this post because there is a huge back story and I rarely ever have time to read the Board anymore but until yesterday I was not aware that one of the missing dogs that was placed with a Maine foster by Terry/Tess Phila PA was a dog that Southern Cross most likely helped her pull.

I spent the afternoon following up the leads that were given to me and this morning I spoke with the Director of Animal Welfare for the State of Maine. Ms. Worley was very cooperative and understood immediately why it is so important to try to find the dogs. An investigation is being opened in an effort to find three of the four dogs that were placed in this foster home. I have every reason to believe that they were sold off of an internet web site called Uncle Henry's. I also spoke late last night with another person that has had very difficult dealings with this foster. In the event that the foster is found there will likely be some legal ramification because it is illegal to run a rescue or sell more than two dogs in any 12 month period in Maine without a license. All dogs entering the State are also supposed to have a valid health certificate and valid rabies and I don't believe that was the case. I am grateful to the person that finally pointed this out to me and only sorry that so much time has gone by. I have an additional lead to follow up on with the woman that adopted Queen. I do not know which rescue she came from. In addition, I have placed an Ad on the Uncle Henry's site asking for information from anyone that might have purchased a GSD from this foster.

My goal at this moment is to find the dogs - nothing more - nothing less - and I feel a very real and personal responsibility in this matter. If anyone has any substantial information that could help me it is greatly appreciated. It only took a matter of hours yesterday to get tons of information and get the investigation started and I want to help the Animal Welfare Division with as much information as I can possibly get my hands on with the final goal of reclaiming the Southern Cross dog and helping the other rescues involved claim their animals.


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## TESS

I appreciate that you have made these efforts and honestly did not think to call the Director of Animal Welfare.
The dogs that went to Kevin (not the one adopted to someone else there) were pulled by other than Southern Cross. All dogs pulled from AC which went to Maine were vetted and had tags when they went. An owner's foster (not Southern Cross and not for adoption) apparently had a rabies shot but the records were never faxed. I believe a rabies shot was administered by the foster thereafter.
SO IT IS CLEAR I tried to reach the purchaser of Queen from the phone number given to me from AL (mechanical voicemail) but she did not call me back or it was the wrong number. I have sent letters to my original adopter but they were returned or did not receive a response from him. The Animal Welfare Dept is a great idea. Thank you for following up with that effort and I will also call.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## MollyM

Please check your records because as painful as it is for me to admit I have every reason to believe that Dixie/Juliet is a Southern Cross dog and I would have done all of this and more if I had been contacted when all of this was happening. I do understand that Queen, Billie and Summer were from other rescues but according to an e-mail I have seen Queen was purchased off of the Uncle Henry website from the foster, Kevin. If, in fact, it turns out that Dixie/Juliette is not one of ours I would still be happy to help you through this crisis because it is and always should be about the dogs.

From what I learned yesterday and today there is every good reason to be terrified about what will be learned by the Animal Welfare Dept. Were you aware that they also have poodles and Great Danes and MAY be inter-breeding?


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## shilohsmom

OMG, this is awful. Molly, thank you sooo much for following up on this! Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. So Summer did end up with this guy-thats what i heard...that poor little girl. I just hope she can be found!


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## TESS

Jul was adopted not fostered by him but adopted by his brother who was supposed to be a realy nice guy according to two people who dealt with him. Juliette was actually pulled by a different rescue not yours. I have the paperwork. She was vetted and came spayed. I have that paperwork too.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## TESS

OMG no not at all aware of any of that!!!! He must have paid his references because they were glowing. It makes you wonder how horrible people can be.
I will follow up with Animal Welfare and see what can be learned. Thank you. I appreciate your diligence and effort for the dogs.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## MollyM

Yes, to the best of my ability, that is what I have found out. If you know where Summer came from could you possibly let them know to contact me?

Thank you so much for caring!


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## MollyM

Did you do a home visit?


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## Sue F

How could someone be a foster for a rescue if there had never been a home visit done?


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## Jazy's mom

You would be surprised!

I don't know about this situation. I am just saying not every rescue operates the same way. I have seen some local all breed rescues that will let just about anyone that is willing to take a dog foster for them.


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## Myamom

Summer's thread...she wasn't spayed









http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=975230&page=10&fpart=1


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Just because it IS done doesn't mean it SHOULD be done, encouraged, supported or faciltated. 

There are two sticky posts in this section-one the reputable rescue one, that actually has a checklist of best practices (and for almost all the adopter ones, you add the word foster)-and the other the do you know where that dog is going-that really should be very clear in terms of the how. 

I have been sick, but saw this, and hate to hear "but the other kids didn't do their homework either" and am going back to bed now.


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## Jazy's mom

Jean, I by no means was saying that just because others do not do home visit makes it ok. I was just responding to Sue's comment.

I think every rescue should do a reference check and home visit on every single adopter and foster home.


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## Sue F

This is one reason that rescues should never get so big or do so much volume that they cannot keep track of every dog that is in its foster system.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

> Originally Posted By: jazy's momJean, I by no means was saying that just because others do not do home visit makes it ok. I was just responding to Sue's comment.
> 
> I think every rescue should do a reference check and home visit on every single adopter and foster home.


Thanks for the clarification-there are some around here who don't do them, and I just can't understand it.


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## MollyM

yes, totally agreed. I did a home visit on a potential foster home earlier today- I was told she had an outside "pen". When I saw what she had I was floored - easily an acre and a half that was fenced in for play. What is someone's pen might be someone else's paradise. Word's can be deceptive.


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## TESS

There was a home visit done. It was arranged by my Maine volunteer but they gave in all of the paperwork and it was a reputable person who conducted the visit. I also have pictures of his home and the dogs running and playing together - it all looked normal.
We always do home visits - to me they are the most revealing and I have failed a few people on that ground even if they had great vet references.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## TESS

AND JUST SO YOU KNOW - this happened when there were VERY few people involved with my rescue and very few dogs. Since that time the Maine volunteer has no longer been involved and the good people I do have and the many more who have offered do a GREAT job. There are A LOT of good people who want to do the right thing and put all kinds of energy into that. GRANTED they don't all think to try and out fox bad folks - BUT It is very easy to find fault or blame or think of what "cudda" or "shudda" but I find that unfair and counter productive. My folks are really really good people.
Thanks Molly for the thoughts and calls. I will follow up.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## MollyM

Since I feel so responsible would you mind mind posting the photo's of the home and giving the name of the person responsible so that I can forward it on to the proper authorities?

It is my understanding that the volunteer was actually the guy's brother? Please feel free to illuminate here.


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## TESS

NO -- the Maine volunteer is a woman, lives near my sister, is a member of this board and she has no relation to him that I know of - she is someone you Molly have been in contact with, have the email address for and have used lately on this issue. That same volunteer also fostered or is fostering for a private person - nothing to do with you or my rescue. I personally and financially helped her with that foster for a time but we have parted company As far as I know anyway she is very experienced with dogs and well meaning. I think this guy just put one over on her and hence me (my other staff at my office who spoke with him too) - sounds like he has done that with others too.
The home visitor for this man was a canine trainer and as far as I know unrelated to anyone.
I can go back through old emails but not until the very end of this week and I can email them to you - I am not near a computer much for the next several days.
I would love to know the person or people with whom you spoke in Maine so I can get right to the person in charge. If you ahve a moment to pm that I will make a point of picking that info up this morning.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Sue F

Just for reference, here are the other two threads about these dogs that I could find:

Billy:

http://http://www.germanshepherds.com/fo...page=30&fpart=1

Queen:

http://http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=971122&page=6&fpart=2

Hope this is helpful in getting all the info together to go after this guy.


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## MollyM

I think one of us is confused - I thought you said in your earlier post you always do home visits and have photo's of the home? I think it would be VERY helpful to share them so that they can be given to the Animal Welfare Dept. in Maine.

If you could also FAX me the home visit form and the name of the canine trainer that did the home visit I will forward it on to my contacts. 

I have every reason to believe that these dogs are in danger so if possible it would be great to have them before the end of the week, maybe one of your volunteers could call me or send them? I am also happy to share what I find out with the other dogs originating rescues if you will also share that. Thanks!


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## MollyM

Thank you Sue.


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## lsoilm1936

those links do not work Sue


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## Avamom

I think Home Again or Avid, who ever these dog are microchipped with, would be helpful in this case.

Tess, your pull paperwork and adoption contract should prove to them you are the owner (especially since the dog has been rehomed or sold which is detailed in your contract as not allowed). I believe they would be forthcoming with info on where the dog is registered now or at least contact that person for you.

Your paperwork should prove ownership.


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## lsoilm1936

Billy

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=857476&page=30&fpart=1


still working on other link


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## lsoilm1936

Queen

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=971122&page=6&fpart=1

I think this is the right one


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## Sue F

Yep, I just fixed them too..sorry, got "http" happy!


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## Sue F

Molly..

Maybe CustomKimber, who fostered, might have some of the paperwork you are looking for?

Sue


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## TESS

Custom kimber did not foster.
I would like for you to give us the contact info, and I will make sure someone here follows through on this end while I am out. It surely is easier than faxing everyone everything to everyone.
I told you a home visit was done, the forms are in my files and the pics are in my emails. I would have to search for the pics through my several email addresses and do not have hours between now and the end of the week to do that. I cannot imagine how anyone would think the pics of dogs running in the snow in the yard would be urgent.
I will give my info to the authorities if you will give me the contact info for the authorities I can pass that on to my staff. It is our job to follow up and we are happy to do it. Otherwise I can start from scratch and have people start calling the Maine depts too. Sounds like the slower way but if that is what is available.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Sue F

Sorry, guess I misunderstood....so then CustomKimber just pulled some of these dogs for you, not fostered?


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## Jazy's mom

Tess, The other link to Queen's thread says very cleary that CustomKimber was in fact the one that pulled her from the shelter and temp fostered her until transport was arranged. 



> Quote: I can assure you from my last phone call Queen is with my foster clearing off coffee tables and playing with Pistol the bulldog - her best buddy right now. She will be on her way to an adopter (already approved who apparently values the qualities of a cat assassin) this week so long as all the papers are in order by fax to me.


It also appears this dog went straight from transport into a new home. 



> Quote:The transport finally delivered the girl today. She is now with her adopter who drove from Maine to pick her up.


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## Avamom

That's what I thought....CustomKimber pulled her and fostered her before transport to you....her quote below is why we thought that...


> Originally Posted By: CustomKimberAlso, if anyone knows of any potential adopters for this girl, please let me know. I am technically fostering her, I just wanted to get her out of the shelter.


Everyone is just trying to help these dogs, that is why more information is being asked for. Molly got a lot of info, very quickly so since she is on a roll, in the best interest of these dogs, why not get her any info she needs to try to help you find these dogs.

You posted on here looking for advice and help and that is what seems to be being offered! Two hands are better than one, especially when finding these dogs are the priority!


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## TESS

Custom kimber disappeared on Queen. I am looking at the paperwork and the lady from AL put Queen in her name alone. Custom kimber just stopped communicating. The lady from AL fostered her until pickup and I know because the dogs were picked up at her house. I know the person who picked them up. Customkimber is in Tallahassee FL and lost internet and phone and took in several other dogs.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Jazy's mom

Am I missing something? If CustomKimber pulled the dog from the shelter (which is what the other thread says) then the paperwork from the shelter would be in her name or yours. 

Side Note: I help other rescues pull dogs from the south and often the rescue has already faxed the paperwork to the shelter with all of their info. If the paperwork is not already filled out then I put the rescues info on the paperwork and sign as a representative of the rescue. If you have not already started doing this, then I highly recommend you do this in the future.


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## MaineLady

> Originally Posted By: shilohsmomI remember reading/hearing something about another dog being sent to a K9 trainer in Maine...



what is the man's name?


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## TESS

I will start doing this. No the lady from AL pulled the dog in her name - originally custom kimber was gonig to but did not do so. AL lady did not put me on the paperwork but again that will be the new practice.
I pmd the man's name - I do not want to possibly "defame" him by publicizing in a post. I do not know the law on that well enough.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Jazy's mom

I still do not understand. If Customkimber did not pull the dog, then why were you asking her to fax the paperwork to you for transport. She posted on the other thread that she had the dog and was fostering it. I think there is something that I am missing here.


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## Jax08

I don't read the Customkimber actually pulled the dog. If you look at the dates and times it looks like she talked to the director, planned to pull her and then couldn't get transport to FL. Within 2 hours of posting for transport help she posted that she was fostering and I think that is causing the confusion.

Tess stated that she was picking her up with CustomKimber's agreement so the dog was never physically in her hands.


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## Jazy's mom

Thanks Jax08, I went back and read the other thread and this makes more sense now.


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## Avamom

Oh....I think I see now....CustomKimber put her name on the dog at the shelter, as in to adopt, to save from being pts (per her posts) but never actually <u>physically</u> got the dog...since she was in FL and the dog was in AL. So Tess arranged for transport straight from the vet in AL that the shelter sent her to? Is that right? Not trying to nitpick but this is important when trying to prove ownership with the microchip company so as to try to get this dog back!!!

So the agreement that you were waiting on for transport was one for CK to sign her over to your rescue since the shelter had her in CK name? She didn't physically pull her...but I think as far as the shelter thought, CK would have been the owner, hence why Tess needed her to sign an agreement for the transporter to take her. In that instance, Custom Kimber would be the puller...just not physically...paperwork would be the key here. If the shelter sent her to be vetted, they would only do that with a commitment from someone, which by the posts, sounds like CustomKimber.

But if Tess' AL contact is who put her name on the dog, then does that mean CK did an agreement with the AL puller or did the AL puller commit at the shelter? Because I worry that if the shelter sent the dog to be vetted with CustomKimber's name and then she dropped out of communication with Tess and never signed that agreement, you may have an issue with ownership paperwork??

However, if CK did sign that agreement then it should be even more proof for HomeAgain or Avid microchip that the dog belongs to you!! 

When pulling from out of state it can get confusing...we often have to do owner transfer forms for other rescues when we pull for someone else and the shelter won't let you put the final rescue's name on it...but since Tess is a lawyer, I know she understands how stupid paperwork can be a big deal...its a pain but it could be the key in getting the microchip company to cooperate!


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## RebelGSD

Just another idea to get the dog back:

Since this was done because of the money, you might be able to get the dog back by offering the new adopter some money - maybe a little more than what they paid. Also the first adopter might be more willing to cooperate if they get a little money. This might work, especially if they have a little difficulty managing the new dog.

In general , I am not for rewarding people for bad deeds, however the quick and dirty method may be considered for the sake/safety of the dog.


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## ILGHAUS

Reading this thread has me going huh?? Why is it being assumed the dog is in a bad home and there is a need to get the dog back? The new owners are probably not even aware of any of this going on and as far as they are concerned they purchased a dog from an owner that no longer wanted it for one reason or another. They might be a great home. 

Is it not better just to try to track the dog down to do a check to ensure that it is safe and healthy and not to track it down to "get the dog back?" That is unless I've missed something in this thread?


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## Ilovealldogs

Not to change the topic, but since the subject of "home visits" was mentioned earlier, I want to put in my two cents. I am all for home visits and think they should be done when at all possible. Years ago I had purchased a home to be used as rental property and the folks who lived in the place that I bought it from left their dog at the house (inside). Of course I wasn't expecting this and was very angry, but I knew I needed to find the dog a good home. I had a lady that met her and fell in love with her (meaning the dog). She filled out an application and I did a home visit and checked references. I explained to her that if it didn't work out that I would take the dog back. (I was doing this on my own and not through a rescue, so there was no written contract.) I approved her and let the dog go with her. She called me a few days later to say the dog was barking while she was at work (her neighbors complained) and the dog was tearing up everything. I explained that the dog probably thought she was being abandoned again, but that if she wanted to return her that I would take her back. She said that she'd work on things and give the dog a chance. A while later (can't remember if it was a couple weeks or a month), I ran into her at a gas station. When I inquired about the dog, her eyes darted every which way and she said that she drove the dog to NY and now the dog is living with her cousin. I am quite sure that it was a lie, but after checking with all of the local shelters and seeing that the dog wasn't at any of them, there was little that I felt that I could do. 

What is the point of this story? Even with a home visit, the person can possibly still turn out to be a you-know-what.


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## TESS

If the purchaser of the dog is a good home I am surely open to a forever scenario. I want to track down the dog(s) assuming that all dogs who went to Maine were sold by this guy (and I am not sure I believe that) but my greatest hope is to find the adopter who signed the contract with me originally and then be able to make sure the dogs are okay assuming he cooperates.
And you are correct - people who intend to do bad things will sign and promise and swear and still do bad things. I firmly believe we cannot always address those issues but we do know God can and will.
Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences. It helps so much.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## MaineLady

I live in Maine and also run a group that consists of Maine rescues and shelters. If you need help with anything, let me know and I'll do what I can.

Chris
http://www.gsrne.org


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## TESS

Thank you so much. I will be in touch with you I am sure.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## RebelGSD

I would like to respond to the "huh" questions.

There are many things wrong with the situation regardless whether the new home is prefect or not.

- First, it is not known that the dog is safe or that the dog is in a good home. The adopters could have thrown him out of the car on the interstate, for example, he could be in a research lab, dog fighting ring etc. The people who sold him are not exactly trustworthy.
- If the dog is in a good home, why the big secret as to where the dog is? The new owners could appply to the rescue and acquire the dog legally.
- The whole idea of rescue is for the dog to have a safety net if the owners cannot keep the animal - for the life of the dog. A big part of the rescue effort and contract is to prevent the dog from being handed down from one home to the other until it ends up dumped at a kill shelter. These actions are a violation of the fundamental idea of rescue and jeopardize the safety of the dog.
- This dog no longer has a safety net, even if he/she were in the best of homes.
- It is a breach of a legal contract.
- If someone buys a stolen item, pays for it and they are nice people, it does not mean that it is OK and that they can keep the stolen item (unless the legal owner agrees with that).
- With the "huh" logic anybody could just take/steal any rescue dog, from a transport, foster etc., and it would be OK if they are nice people. I don't know many rescuers who would agree with that.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Plus-and please excuse me I only have one contact lens in and am half out of it from dehydration (glad no one can see my hair too) but was this dog also HW+? IF so, then those people need that information asap. Again- I could be wrong but that would be another reason in general regardless-it always helps to have utd vetting information. 

Sorry if this made no sense!


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## ILGHAUS

I am the person who posted the "huh" question. I believe you took my whole post out of context or at least that is the way I am going to tell myself it was taken. 



> Quote:Reading this thread has me going huh?? Why is it being assumed the dog is in a bad home and there is a need to get the dog back? The new owners are probably not even aware of any of this going on and as far as they are concerned they purchased a dog from an owner that no longer wanted it for one reason or another. They might be a great home.
> 
> Is it not better just to try to track the dog down to do a check to ensure that it is safe and healthy and not to track it down to "get the dog back?" That is unless I've missed something in this thread?


I did not say *NOT *to track down the dog, in fact I said to go ahead to find the dog and ensure that it was safe and healthy in its new home. I was questioning why several here were saying that the dog needed to be found "to get the dog back". Nowhere did I say find the dog and ignore it. Nor did I say not to make contact with the new owner and explain the situation to them. Let them know what is going on and that the rescue wants to work with them and not that the rescue only tracked the dog down to take it back. 




> Quote: The new owners could appply to the rescue and acquire the dog legally.


And if the new owners answered an ad in the paper or purchased the dog through word of mouth how would they even know there was a rescue involved? 

And I do understand what can happen to a dog in the wrong hands, I understand legal contracts, I know about stolen property, and yes I know about following procedures.



> Quote: The whole idea of rescue is for the dog to have a safety net if the owners cannot keep the animal - for the life of the dog. A big part of the rescue effort ...


I have been involved long enough in rescue to know the idea behind rescues.

Look, I don't see the need to respond to the whole post in this manner as the answering post is nowhere near the point of my question.


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## RebelGSD

I am surprised that anyone with any ideas about rescue would question or "huh" the efforts of people to whom the dog legally belongs to get it back into their posession.


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## TESS

Ilghaus:
I understand what you meant and took it quite that way. I thank you for your calm head and thought your advice and suggestions were very valuable.
One could panic and assume the worst or portray this as all evil or believe all are complicit in how this happened OR one could properly work their way through to obtain the right result. While my heart wants to panic (and it has) my duty is to do what I thought you were suggesting and handle it to achieve the best possible result for the dog. After all, the dog's being removed from a good home and given back to the rescue is not necessarily the best for the dog - if it is a good home. Hopefully the new purchaser if I am able to find them and talk to them will agree to straighten this out. Giving the benefit of the doubt to the innocent purchaser - which IS what the law would do anyway - and not assuming everything about this is dastardly may be the thing to find out and not at all inimical to the dog's interest.
Thanks for the sense you made to me.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## RebelGSD

It is up to the rescue to decide with whom to place the dog after the dog is back in their posession.


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## RebelGSD

It would be wonderful if the dog were in a great home. Unfortunately experienece shows that people who are after a quick buck by selling the dog, usually don't particularly care where the dog ends up - as long as they get their money. Finding a good home takes time, effort and luck. Hopefully this dog is lucky.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I thought we do know who the one dog is with? But not the others. 

Again-dizzy, dehydrated, and truly cannot keep up with the thread! But too sick to sleep so here I am!


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## ILGHAUS

Thanks Tess for reading this in the manner that it was posted.


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## TESS

We do know where one dog is and they I thought weree a good home. Again the original adopter either fooled me or really LOVED his dog. Sometimes circumstances get beyond a person and they don't honor what they promised but that does not necessarily mean that all is horrible. I will let you know what the investigation turns up.
Atleast I found out about it. So many probably don't even know and it has happened to them.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## TerriJ

Hi to all members concerned about the dog named Queen. I am a new member and was encouraged to join today because it seems that there is a question about her where abouts. Yes, I bought this girl and was unaware that there would be a problem in doing so. I bought this dog because her previous owner had to move and had no room for her at the new place. Queen wanted to go with me when I went to see her and she was thin but was energetic. After I got her home I found her to be quite ill and have spent quite a bit more money to make her well again. Queen is now known as Sadie and responds to her name as well as she is happy to be where she gets plenty of funtime with her new siblings, loving attention from a stay at home doggie mom and the health care that all dogs need. My husband also loves her and she gets to go for rides to town to run errands. I have also started some serious obedience training so we may go to Rally O trials. I will do every thing needed to help you with your search for the other dog but she is in a good place and we have no intention of
giving Sadie up. I am experienced in rescue dogs and am also 
willing to have someone come do a home visit as all agencies need to do. I also was a vet tech years ago so I feel qualified to give care to needy dogs. I fell into this mess by accident but will cooperate to the point of not giving our girl up. She does not need to up-rooted again, it's not in her best interests. I am sorry if this sounds abrupt but we did nothing wrong, hence this letter. 
Garter5 in Maine


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## allieg

IF I am not too confused about this whole situation,thank you for giving this dog a good home and the medical care she evidently needed.What were her medical problems?I hope this works out for all involved.


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## mychance

While I agree with many of the points you've raised, if I am following this thread accurately, Queen never actually "belonged" to Tess or the rescue Tess is running (sorry Tess, I'm not sure if you have a name for your group). 

It seems like Queen actually belonged to the person in AL who signed her out of the shelter in her own name and not in the name of Tess' group. I doubt the shelter would pursue the issue of Queen being rehomed by the original adopter - assuming they even had a return clause in the adoption paperwork - and I don't know that Tess really could pursue it (however she feels comfortable defining "pursuing it' - home visit, application from new owner, etc.)

There was an earlier post about the importance of getting ALL the paperwork completed in the rescue's name (we also have some volunteers who sign their own name and write, "on behalf of . . ." when pulling a shelter dog.) We also work very hard to get that detail consistent with vetting our dogs while they are in foster care. Again, and again, and again it has made the documentation grind a little bit easier.


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## dd

It sounds like Queen/Sadie luckily fell on her paws. Thanks for giviing her the home she deserves. Glad to hear she is in better health.


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## Myamom

Was Queen HW positive? I always worried about her because of her shelter history that she had NEVER been on preventative...and living in Alabama.....


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## Sue F

You have to wonder if Queen/Sadie was in such bad health, just what condition the other dogs Kevin was fostering or adopted for/from Tess were in......

Thanks for giving Queen/Sadie a loving home....just a shame she came from such a poor one that she had to be rescued again from a rescue situation.


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## kathyb

Thank you so much for letting us know that Queen/Sadie is in a good home and being taken care of. My hope is that the other dogs will be found and have the same ending.


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## TerriJ

<span style="color: #3366FF"> </span> Sadie's first bowel movement was a foamy, bloody water which the former owner said was from the dogs getting into the trash and eating pork bones, and she was at least 10 pounds underweight. It took us some time, xrays and bloodwork to find out she was severely infested with hookworms with a few whipworms thrown in. Thankfully she was heartworm negative. Now we are getting her incision from her spay to finish clearing up along with sores around her rectum. all this has been since we bought her on April 4th. In trying to trace her medical history from her rabies tag, we found out that Queen/Sadie had been dumped at an Alabama shelter by her owners, then a young couple took her and another GSD fromthe shelter and had her for 2 weeks before heading north and somehow going from 1 rescue to another in PA and then being adopted by the guy that we later bought her from. That's pretty much all I know.


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## Sue F

Thanks for all the information you can provide Terri...it is greatly appreciated.


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## Myamom

Here is her entire story as it enfolded...
Did you have her HW tested? 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=971122&page=14&fpart=1


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## Jazy's mom

What type of sores does she have around the rectum? I sure hope she does not have perianal fistulas.

I just reread her originial thread and it stated that she was spayed when pulled from the shelter. Had her spay incision not healed or did you not know that she had already been spayed?


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## brt

Thanks for coming here TerriJ. I'm sure you've eased the minds of many people who have been so worried about Queen/Sadie.

Hopefully Molly's efforts will help in locating the rest of the dogs.

I fostered Billy for Tess from Dec until he was adopted (by the same person) in early Feb. From reading this thread I guess my name is the Maine volunteer. Though Tess and I parted ways in late Feb I'm still very concerned for the welfare of Billy and the other dogs he had in his possession. I think he conned every one involved and I hope he will be held responsible for his actions.


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## brt

> Originally Posted By: myamomWas Queen HW positive? I always worried about her because of her shelter history that she had NEVER been on preventative...and living in Alabama.....



TerriJ stated in the post above HW-!!!


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## Sue F

But it looks like she was never spayed????


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## TESS

I am so happy the girl is found and making her way back to good health!!! You are a brave woman to come forward and deal with this honestly. I realize you are new so I am now asking you to read the pm I will be sending you so we can both get this straightened out properly. Again thank you with all my heart for coming forward and helping me resolve this!!!!
Tess in Philadelphia


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## brt

> Originally Posted By: Sue FBut it looks like she was never spayed????


I believe she was spayed right after she was pulled. Here's the shelter site she was pulled from which includes the vetting they do. I think someone questioned whether Summer, one of the other dogs was spayed.

I don't believe there ever was a microchip though. It would have to have been something Tess requested since it's not something the shelter does.
Chilton County HS 

Billy would have a chip because he came from Miami-Dade and they do chip.


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## Sue F

> Originally Posted By: TerriJ <span style="color: #3366FF"> </span> Thankfully she was heartworm negative. Now we are getting her incision from her spay to finish clearing up along with sores around her rectum. all this has been since we bought her on April 4th.


This is what made me question if Queen/Sadie was ever spayed?


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## brt

> Originally Posted By: Sue F
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: TerriJ <span style="color: #3366FF"> </span> Thankfully she was heartworm negative. Now we are getting her incision from her spay to finish clearing up along with sores around her rectum. all this has been since we bought her on April 4th.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what made me question if Queen/Sadie was ever spayed?
Click to expand...

Oh I see. This whole thread is so confusing! This dog didn't come till mid March after I was done volunteering, but I'm sure Tess can answer that question for you.


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## TerriJ

[font:Comic Sans MS][color:#990000]OK! Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my earlier notes. Sadie/Queen is very high prey drive and needs to learn that no one will hurt her. Kevin had said she was spayed and utd on her shots but until we were able to examine her closely, we didn't realize that she had been spayed but was also having a reaction to the internal sutures.
This small 52 pound Shepherd woulld not let anyone touch her belly, tail or feet without a fight so my vet was able to cut some of her spay stitches that were sticking out at the same time she was sedated for xrays of her guts to check for foreign objects like bones. While at the vet's, she was also checked for heartworm, lyme disease and other worms by drawing blood. 
Sadie/Queen was heartworm negative, lyme negative but hookworm
positive and the sores around her rectum were from irritation by the diarrhea she had. My husband helped me check her this morning and she appears to be almost completely healed up. Her belly is still a little bumpy but the redness is gone and her rectum looks good. It is going to take some time to get used to being handled but we are working on it daily. I'll be glad to answer any more questions any one has.


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## TerriJ

There was no microchip located when Sadie/Queen was scanned at my vets. She will be done shortly; before we start working in public. Like I said earlier, she is very high drive so she gets very vocal when things don't go her way but she is also very affectionate and once her trust is complete, I know she will be one great dog.


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## TerriJ

I forgot to mention that there was a young couple that pulled Sadie/Queen from the shelter in AL that I found through calling the veterinarians number on her rabies tag. Rachel and I talked by phone for quite a while and swapped info on the dog and she took my contact info which is how I was found later on by another volunteer. This couple was very helpful in helping me get a history for Sadie for my vet.


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## skyizzy

TerriJ Thank-You for taking Sadie in and making sure she now has a good home.


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## shilohsmom

TerryJ, thank you so much for giving Queen/Sadie such wonderful care and such a loving home. What I don't understand is how she could have been sceen by two Vets and still arrive in ME in this condition. My little girl had a reaction to the stiches when she was spayed. It was very clear and we returned to the Vet almost every day until the matter was resolved! To think this little girl was in this condition, traveled several states, got checked by another Vet (who apparently did nothing about this) and then sent on for more traveling-thats just unacceptable! Its no wonder she doesn't want to be touched now! I'm just thankful she's now in a home that understands this and is able to see what a wonderful dog she is dispite this experience! 

Does anyone have any updates on the other dogs..Summer and Billy and the other one????


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## TerriJ

My only concern now after reading the back postings is whether or not some one is going to try and take Queen/Sadie away from us and what about the Dept. of Animal Welfare here in Maine? 
TerriJ


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## Sue F

Terri,

I would certainly think that you are not at fault here, and are providing a proper home for Sadie. I would think the animal welfare department would be more concerned with the rescue and the foster/owner (Kevin) that would allow a dog to get in this condition.

Makes me even more worried for Juliette, Billie, and Summer. 

I am constantly amazed how wonderful you have been, given you paid for a dog in such ill health...and are obviously providing such loving care regardless.

Sue


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## shilohsmom

First I want to say that I couldn't think of a better home for Queen/Sadie. I think if anyone ever tried to get her away from you they would have to deal with a whole lot of us first!! We are a passionate group that cares deeply about these dogs and little Sadie has a wonderful home which is all we want in rescue. 

Please give her a hug from all of us!


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## TerriJ

Thank you Sue. I didn't know Sadie was this bad and what it would mean to my other dogs but being in rescue myself years ago, it's not totally unexpected but it does make me angry that this guy(kevin) was so nonchalant about it when I called him.


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## Jax08

TerriJ...I don't think you have anything to worry about. The fact that you came forward to say you had Sadie means you have nothing to hide. You've taken wonderful care of her and are continuing to do so.

I believe the concern was that nobody knew where she was or what kind of home she was in. Now that the rescue knows it should simply be a matter of updating paperwork to show you as Sadie's new family.

Please keep us updated on her progress. And Thank YOU for saving her from a horrible situation!!!


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## TESS

Terryj
I am the founder of the rescue from whom Kevin adopted the dog. I sent you a private message with my contact info. I have not heard from you yet.
If you read the message I think you will know (as my posts on Queen/Sadie above state) that I would like to get this straightened out (paperwork wise) and have no desire to DEPRIVE a dog of a good home. That would be inimical to rescue in the first place.
Unfortuaantely the lady in AL with whom you initially spoke gave me limited contact info for you - not even your name or location. I had to press her even to get a telephone number and she did that she told me by looking at her caller id. I left a message on the number she said had been on her caller id but it may not have been your number. She said she had no contact info for you.
I do not want contact info to deprive you of your dog. I would like to talk to you, straighten out my paperwork and may be you have some info which could help me find Kevin and/or my other dog.
Kevin had another dog of mine, and I am not yet able to say where that dog went. I am very upset about that and do want to find my dog.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Sue F

Tess,

Do you have any idea where Summer, Juliette, and Billie are??? This thread is getting rather confusing. Can you perhaps give us a synopsis of where you think things are at right now, so that anyone with connections can help??

Sue


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## BowWowMeow

I feel dizzy from trying to follow this thread. Who are Summer and Juliette? 

I hope will all of my heart that all of these dogs are located and are being well cared for. I also hope that all of us who do rescue work can learn from this experience. 

I also want to commend everyone for being honest and working together to find these dogs.


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## Sue F

From what I can tell from all these threads....this is the who's who:

Queen/Sadie: Was with Kevin, sold to TerryJ...was this a dog Kevin had adopted or was fostering?

Billy: A dog that Kevin adopted. 

Juliette: Kevin was fostering, Kevin's brother adopted?

Summer: Kevin was fostering...not sure where went?

Am I right?


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## MaineLady

If a home visit is needed, let me know. If its not near me, I have lots of Maine rescue contacts. Happy to help everyone feel comfortable about where Queen/Sadie is and it sounds like her new owner wants that, too.
Chris


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## TerriJ

Tess, regardless about what was said, other people were able to locate me just from calls to Rachel, the shelter and the vet. When I called Kevin about the dogs he advertised in Uncle Henry's he said he only had the younger one left but had many calls that he made a list from. He also said Sadie/Queen was high prey drive and that was what he wanted when he adopted the 2 girls. He said on the phone that he wanted her to go to a home that knew GSDs and he needed to sell them to recoup some of his losses after paying fees to adopt the dogs. When I got to his new address in Lewiston I walked into a smoke filled kitchen that was being redone and there was construction materials and debris also.
I stayed near the door so that I could leave as soon as possible while I met Queen and introduced her to my service dog, Havana.
There were 2 dogs there as well that he said were his, another older GSD and a Brittany. They were fine together and Queen really wanted out so I paid Kevin and we left. She jumped right into my van and home we came. The rest is history.
Animal Welfare here just called me and after talking a while, Ms. Metzger said it looked like this would be a civil matter and the law would side with me because I did everything right and not to worry about losing Queen/Sadie. I can't think of any thing else to tell you at this point. I didn't call you yet because I was busy with other things.


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## TESS

Again, I am not trying to take your dog and I don't need to have a side nor do I have a desire to call Animal Welfare. The only thing I would like to do is talk to you. Normally we call references and do arrange a house visit for any foster or any adopter. In this case I would love to know that you are giving her a good home.
The AL lady with whom you spoke would NOT give me your contact info and claimed to me not to have it. I asked her to check her caller id which she did and gave me a number. She said she had no address or name for you.
I called the number the AL lady gave me and it was a mechanical voicemail and I left a message without a return call. I had no confidence that she gave me your real number.
Thank you for the information on Kevin. Maybe when you call me on the number I pmd to you I can ask some details that I need to know about him. (P.S. He paid small sums for each of two dogs (apparently he paid to me less than what you paid to him) and nothing more.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## MaineLady

> Originally Posted By: TerriJ
> Animal Welfare here just called me and after talking a while, Ms. Metzger said it looked like this would be a civil matter and the law would side with me because I did everything right and not to worry about losing Queen/Sadie.


Hi,

From what I've read, no one is looking to take Sadie away from you. I'm glad that you're concern is about loosing the dog...as it shows your attatchment to the dog...which is of course what rescuers want for all their dogs!

As someone that runs a dog rescue, I understand that Tess has a responsibility to know where the dogs she's been responsible for pulling and placing have gone. Even when a dog is pulled long distance, once you've done that, you need to be sure a dog is in a good place so you can move on to the next. 

I think that she would be able to do that with just a few more steps. 1. Tess would like the contact info for Kevin to follow up on the other dogs, and 2. to just have someone do a regular adoptive home visit to put her mind at rest which you've said is okay with you.

Chris


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## Sue F

While I can completely understand that a rescue that is dealing with this type of situation would want to now do a home check, etc......I also see TerriJ's standpoint. She has now had to spend a large amount of money on a dog that a rescue didn't care for or follow up on....and now they want to be sure SHE is a good owner? I don't see how Terri could be reassured that the rescue wouldn't attempt to take the dog back. It is not her responsibility to help the rescue find Kevin...it is the rescue's responsibility. If the rescue has messed up until now...what would make anyone think this would be done right either?

I am not judging either way...but I can completely see both sides here.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Yeah, like if that were me who now had the dog, I'd be saying yes, a home check would be great, but I want a disinterested third party to do it. Someone who has not been in contact with anyone-maybe from a rescue in that area, and set up by someone who has no interest in this case and is not in communication with anyone. Because I'd be afraid of being set up. And if I were the rescue...I would just want it done for piece of mind and allow the third parties to work it out so as not to scare the person taking care of the dog. 

Hope that made sense.


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANYeah, like if that were me who now had the dog, I'd be saying yes, a home check would be great, but I want a disinterested third party to do it. Someone who has not been in contact with anyone-maybe from a rescue in that area, and set up by someone who has no interest in this case and is not in communication with anyone. Because I'd be afraid of being set up. And if I were the rescue...I would just want it done for piece of mind and allow the third parties to work it out so as not to scare the person taking care of the dog.
> 
> Hope that made sense.


I agree with Sue F. and Jean. It's lucky that Sadie ended up in a good home with a committed caretaker. Maine Lady has offered to find someone to do a home check and that should be enough. I would be horrified if I adopted a dog through Craig's List or something and then found out there was a chance I could lose the dog because the party selling the dog to me wasn't honest.


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## Betty

Actually if I put myself in Terry's position I don't think I would be very ameanable to a home visit.

Look at it from her point of view. She bought a sick dog. She is vetting a sick dog. There is a thread asking if the dog is safe with her and mention made of taking the dog back. She gets a call from Animal Control.

If I was her, I would not be feeling real good about rescues right now.


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## MollyM

Yes, let's remember that Terri answered a "For Sale" ad - she didn't apply to a rescue. The fact that the dog was for sale had nothing to do with her. She needs to be given credit for even joining this board and voluntarily giving information that might help find Billie, Summer and Juliette. If she had something to hide she could have just kept quiet but she didn't. She obviously had Queen/Sadie's best interests at heart when she first contacted the Alabama shelter that Queen came from.

I think the focus should be on where the other three dogs are?


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## TerriJ

Every one of you are right. I feel now that I've done all I need to do as far as the rescue goes and there is nothing more to add about Kevin. Animal Welfare has gone to see him and is waiting for my statement but she was not sure what more can be done at this point. I am glad to have reassured the rescue that Sadie is doing well and if I knew how to do it , I would send pictures of her.


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## allieg

Should this person full name be posted????I haven't seen her full name in any post but maybe I overlooked it..


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## allieg

Create of photobucket acct,resize to spec,click on IMG code copy and paste into post.


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: TerriJEvery one of you are right. I feel now that I've done all I need to do as far as the rescue goes and there is nothing more to add about Kevin. Animal Welfare has gone to see him and is waiting for my statement but she was not sure what more can be done at this point. I am glad to have reassured the rescue that Sadie is doing well and if I knew how to do it , I would send pictures of her.


We would love to see pictures of her! Also, for those sores on her butt--if you can find some calendula cream that will soothe them and accelerate the healing. It's totally natural and I use it on my dogs all of the time.


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## MaineLady

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANYeah, like if that were me who now had the dog, I'd be saying yes, a home check would be great, but I want a disinterested third party to do it. Hope that makes sense


Makes a lot of sense. I offered because I'm in Maine. I have never met Tess, and no nothing about her or her rescue. 

I am however, a board member of German Shepherd Rescue of New England, Inc and have been doing rescue for over 10 of the 13 years that GSRNE has been around.

I'm available if needed, and if the new owner doesn't want that to happen, it's between her and Tess. I offered as a way to resolve this and let everyone here have some piece of mind about this one dog.


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## MollyM

you're right! My apologies.


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: MollyMYes, let's remember that Terri answered a "For Sale" ad - she didn't apply to a rescue. The fact that the dog was for sale had nothing to do with her. She needs to be given credit for even joining this board and voluntarily giving information that might help find Billie, Summer and Juliette. If she had something to hide she could have just kept quiet but she didn't. She obviously had Queen/Sadie's best interests at heart when she first contacted the Alabama shelter that Queen came from.
> 
> I think the focus should be on where the other three dogs are?


I absolutely agree with Molly.


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## Sue F

I also agree....given how confusing this thread is getting, maybe Tess you can help get things back on track with a status update on what you know about the other three dogs? As I said previously,from what I can tell from all these threads....this is the who's who:

Queen/Sadie: Was with Kevin, sold to TerryJ...was this a dog Kevin had adopted or was fostering?

Billy: A dog that Kevin adopted. 

Juliette: Kevin was fostering, Kevin's brother adopted?

Summer: Kevin was fostering...not sure where went?

Am I right?


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## TESS

And Sue F what would YOUR rescue do?
A statement that I did not care about this dog or that I did not followup is neither true nor helpful. In fact it is nasty and frankly defamatory. 
And now that you have publicly stated that among other things about what you perceive me to be - and, like Mainelady, you do not know me in the least - I do not expect that the adopter will contact me and hence the dog's future may be effected.
This is a dog I took the time to pull, to vet, to transport, to find an adopter for - and a dog now who may never have follow up contact with the rescue she was entitled to have. So if you can sleep at night knowing that was the effect of your aspersions do not post messages like "we can help you" as clearly your agenda is not to help anyone and especially not dogs and least of all me.
I do sleep at night, because we do follow up and because we do something productive to save the dogs and we do something to find good homes for them. We obviously need to learn other ways too and that is why I tried to have some input to see how others do this. That way we can improve. We are by no means perfect and by no means the most knowledgeable and perhaps even the least knowledgeable in many ways. BUT we actually DO a fair amount of good. 
While you know little about these circumstance (and the only one who is a member of this board and who was ever a part was the person that primarily checked Kevin's references and reviewed dogs and circumstances with him), while she was with me Queen/Sadie was to vets and had health certs and was adopted to a man who passed all tests, inspections and swore love for her. He apparently did NOT care for her much but don't assume I ever shared his heart or mind. I did not and do not.
And quiite importantly to us do NOT mis-post in this way. It is a rule violation - in the least.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Sue F

Tess,

I never said you didn't care, I said that could be Terri's perception based on her viewpoint of getting a dog from someone she was told rescued it. I have not once said you did not care for the dogs in your rescue. Why don't you go back and read the thread again.

I sleep just fine at night...I know where the dogs that I helped are....do you? Several people have asked several times where Juliette, Billy, and Summer are...do you know?

Sue


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## allieg

I know nothing of rescue organizations so sorry if I am way off course.Do you have any medical info this new owner needs?Do you have any behavior issues this owner needs to know about to help this dog through the rest of her life? This person is clearly scared of having this dog taken away due to the whole mess, can't this info be exchanged on the forum or through PMs and just note that the dog is in good hands? If I wasn't going out of the country I would offer to do a home check since I don't know a single person and put this matter to rest.Someone screwed up and this person shouldn't be put in the middle.I understand you want to cross the Ts and dot the Is but isn't knowing the dog is healthy and happy enough?


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## Avamom

Hold on there Tess, Sue has said nothing that is going to make Terry not want to have a HV done. Don't take this out on her, nor try to deflect blame to her. Everyone posting on here has the best interest of these dogs at heart, from Queen to the others that YOU came on here asking for advice about. 

TerryJ took in a dog that she has NO idea came from a rescue and why would she, considering the condition she came in. Granted this was due to the foster home who had her, but her perception would be the same. I think everyone on here has tried to convince TerryJ that no one is coming to take her dog away from her, including Sue, and see it from her point of view...she doesn't seem to have done anything wrong in this instance. 

If TerryJ doesn't contact you or allow you to do a HV is has NOTHING to do with what Sue said, don't jump down her throat because you are in a bad situation here. This is a situation that gets lots of passions going, I understand.

But, this should be a learning experience, every rescue gets burned by bad foster homes at one point of time...follow up is important but so is keeping things to a manageable number. I think the important thing here is to think about your process and how many dogs you can reasonably keep up with and don't pull more until you have a good handle on all the ones you have currently. 

I know the feeling to save dogs is strong and there are always more than anyone has room for, but maybe this is a sign to slow down and concentrate on the dogs you have now, organizing, checking up on all the other dogs and most importantly checking in with your foster homes to make sure they don't feel overwhelmed, that all the dogs are working out, all are accounted for, etc. Find a place for all dogs in boarding and just basically regroup.

Every group has to do that from time to time, we have! If you get too big too fast, things can slip through the cracks. I think you came on here to hear from others and get a "how to"...so please take this as solicited advice and not bashing.

I think everyone has these dogs best interest at heart, I know Sue does...so lets put our tempers away.


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## WiscTiger

Tess, SueF didn't attack you. 

Due to this conversation Terri came forward and publicly stated she has Sadie. She could have not joined here, kept her mouth shut, not feel threatened that some one might take the dog that she purchased and has spent her money and emotions trying to get her healthy. 

So maybe it would be helpful to the other dogs in question if you would share what you know. Maybe there are more miracles out there and the dogs can be found. If you don't want to share and have help that is your choice, but other groups and people on this board have offered to help where they can. The internet can be a powerful tool for getting information out.

Val
(as a member not an Admin)


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## shilohsmom

I too think TerriJ (Sadies Mom) has done more than enough to assure us that her girl is safe. Lets move on...What about the other three dogs??? Where is Summer???


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## TerriJ

Thanks Ruth. I used fresh aloe on it yesterday and it was amazing how well it looked this morning. Sadie is laying here beside me on the floor along with 3 other female dogs after playing soccer outside tonight.


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## Jax08

Have you ever tried Tea Tree Oil? I'm using it on my horse right now and I amazed by it. He had a terrible gouge, probably from a romping trip through some trees at night, and it's accelerated the healing. It's looks terrific!

I mixed 4 T vaseline with 1 t tea tree. You have to liquify the vaseline and add the tea tree.


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## WiscTiger

If you are using TTO on a dog it should in most cases be diluted. Dogs like some people can have an adverse reaction to TTO.

Val


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## TESS

" She has now had to spend a large amount of money on a dog that a rescue didn't care for or follow up on....and now they want to be sure SHE is a good owner? I don't see how Terri could be reassured that the rescue wouldn't attempt to take the dog back. It is not her responsibility to help the rescue find Kevin...it is the rescue's responsibility. If the rescue has messed up until now...what would make anyone think this would be done right either? "
And you think this is okay? And you are an administrator?
Interesting call. 
Tess in Philadelphia


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## TESS

Oh and Animal Welfare did not call on my behalf - I had no contact with them. Someone else listed above did - someone suggesting things not what I ever thought of or considered.
I am done asking most of you any reasonable question. I thought - silly me - people on this board might be constructive and not destructive.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Sue F

While I feel NO need to defend myself Tess, again, I was giving what Terri's view would be....to cut and paste what is convenient isn't being fair.

What I find interesting is the fact that even after an administrator has asked you about the other three dogs, you don't respond.


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## Sue F

I believe Terri said she called Animal Welfare to be reassured she wasn't going to have to give Sadie to someone else....


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerIf you are using TTO on a dog it should in most cases be diluted. Dogs like some people can have an adverse reaction to TTO.
> 
> Val


oh...nice to know. I'm using it on a horse for rain scald and general boo boo's but I'll make sure to do more research for my dogs. For a spray I use 1 t to 1 C of water for my horse.


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## shilohsmom

Once again, to avoid answering questions you cop an attitude and sarcastically say we are not constructive???? You came here for suggestions and thats what you got. Along the way some of us had questions which you frequently chose to ignore (such as wheres Summer and Billy and the other dog sent to this man???) 
Over and over again you stress that your dogs are kept in foster homes, evaluated, etc. but this not always the case is it? It doesn't sound like Queen was in a foster home, evaluated, etc. 
You might have the best of intentions most of the time but a big part of rescue is developing relationships with others and working with others not acting as if they are the bad guys when things don't go your way. 
Again, dare I ask, where is Billy and Summer or have you already heard about them and are just not wanting to say?


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## allieg

I agree.You now know where one of these 3 dogs are and it looks like she is in good hands lets try to find the missing ones.You have not given any info on the others.What is so important about sadie/queen that you won't give up on it?I think now the focus should be on the missing dogs and make sure they are in good hands.If you found Sadie /queen once you'll find her again.Maybe after things quiet down the info you want on her will be given up easily.Let's find the missing one now and move on....


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I don't think anyone on here is going to allow to have it turned back at them like that anymore. 

Let's figure out where the other three dogs are. 

And don't be suprised if others who have helped to facilitate a dog going to rescue will inquire as well on them as typical follow up. Not personal-just a good practice.(I still try to make sure Lisa Mc knows Mario is doing well-she temp fostered him)

In fact I think it would be interesting to start a new thread on pulls, adoptions, etc stats for rescues to post on for the first almost half a year. 

But I think everyone wants to help you, on this thread, find those three dogs.


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## shilohsmom

Great idea Jean!


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## Avamom

And Jean, we love seeing Mario...Lisa almost kept him, LOL!!!

Tess, you came on here asking for how others do it, needing a "how to" book....not only are people trying to give you advice, they are also willing to help you find the other dogs!

I can tell you from experience that Noble has had adoptions go badly, we have had to reclaim dogs, had foster homes disappoint us in the care that dogs were given...it comes with running an organization. *Sometimes you just have to be willing to admit you f'd up, look at how you are doing things, regroup, reorganize and take the advice of people who have been doing it longer and sometimes better*. I know I have had to take that advice. We've taken advice, brainstormed and commiserated with several of what I consider very reputable rescues, like VGSR, Raleigh GSD rescue, Cila with Shepherds to Love, Darcy with BDBH, etc. I think I have learned a lot and are <u>still</u> learning.

Our biggest lesson was to learn to say NO, we are full. That is the hardest part, because the "pull" is the exciting part, its what makes you feel good..to save that dog. But its also the easiest...and often people forget about you once the dog is safe...offers to help go away, sometimes pledges of money do too...then the dog may be sick and have unknown behavior issues, etc. You are never better than the last dog you pulled. The difficult part comes after the pull when you have to find foster homes, get the dogs healthy, get them evaluated, keep foster homes happy, find time to communicate with them to make sure the dog is doing well and they have everything they need...because as you found out, a mad foster home is about the worst thing a rescue can have...because they have your MOST precious item...your DOG!

This board can do wonderful things, there are people on here, that may not post alot but have great connections and can do a lot "behind the scenes"...you may not know them, but there are people who may be able to help, who may have connections or methods you haven't tried yet...if it truly is about the dogs, put aside your feelings and let this board help you find the other missing dogs...give the info needed for others to start HELPING you find these dogs!!!


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## MollyM

Tess - Maine Lady was YOUR volunteer at the time - both of you agree on that. According to your own words how could she not know you?

EVERYONE in rescue takes the time to pull, vet and transport - what about the follow up on Billie, Summer and Juliette? I think most, if not all are convinced that Queen is safe - it is the other 3 that are in jeopardy. BILLIE, SUMMER, JULIETTE. Do you know where they are?

In my experience, as limited as it may be, swearing love for a dog you have just met just doesn't count as much as qualified home visits ( I am not sure about those being done by a brother - does anyone else have an opinion? ) and veterinary references.


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## MollyM

Great post Avamom because it is so, so true.


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## BowWowMeow

> Originally Posted By: MollyMTess - Maine Lady was YOUR volunteer at the time - both of you agree on that. According to your own words how could she not know you?
> 
> EVERYONE in rescue takes the time to pull, vet and transport - what about the follow up on Billie, Summer and Juliette? I think most, if not all are convinced that Queen is safe - it is the other 3 that are in jeopardy. BILLIE, SUMMER, JULIETTE. Do you know where they are?
> 
> In my experience, as limited as it may be, swearing love for a dog you have just met just doesn't count as much as qualified home visits ( I am not sure about those being done by a brother - does anyone else have an opinion? ) and veterinary references.


To add to the confusion: There are two people in this thread who live in Maine. One is Maine Lady (Cris) who is a volunteer with GSRNE and the other is brt (who lives in Maine) who was a volunteer for Tess at the time of these adoptions. 

I think the important thing right now is to find the missing dogs. Finding fault is a lot easier but the missing dogs are much more important.


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## MollyM

Bow Wow Meow - you are right again! I have been a member of this forum for quite awhile but I post very little. All I can do is say I am sorry once again. 
Thank you for catching my mistakes! I will try to do better should I post again!


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## MaineLady

> Originally Posted By: MollyMTess - Maine Lady was YOUR volunteer at the time - both of you agree on that. According to your own words how could she not know you?


Please re-read the posts. Tess said she had a volunteer in Maine. It was not me. I have no idea who Tess is, have not had any contact with her in the past, and am not involved in her rescue.

Since I live in Maine I volunteered to help out with a home visit which would put people's minds at ease.
Chris


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: TerriJWhen I called Kevin about the dogs he advertised in Uncle Henry's he said he only had the younger one left but had many calls that he made a list from. He also said Sadie/Queen was high prey drive and that was what he wanted when he adopted the 2 girls. He said on the phone that he wanted her to go to a home that knew GSDs and he needed to sell them to recoup some of his losses after paying fees to adopt the dogs.


TerriJ PURCHASED the dog. She has also spent money at the vets for treatment of the dog. According to the law the dog is now HERS and no-one has the right to demand a home check.

TerriJ - welcome to the board. Sorry it's been under less than good conditions.


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## Betty

On a happier note, I think we need pictures!

What do you say Terri?


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## TerriJ

Thank you for the support, it's greatly appreciated. This weekend I will be home and will try to get them(pics) on here along with pics of the rest of my gang. I hope every one has a wonderful weekend, including the 4 legged ones.


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## brt

This thread has practically gone dead and I don't think that's a good thing. It's been long and confusing and I hope I don't add to that confusion. So from this page only and hopefully moving on ...

JeanKBBMMMAAN - Great idea that I see is already in the works.

Avamom - Great post. Thank you for sharing your experience.

BowWowMeow - There was confusion, I think because I was referred to as the Maine volunteer earlier in the thread. I was involved with the placement of some, but not ALL of the dogs placed with Kevin.

MollyM - We've all been confused with all the twists and turns this thread has taken.. 

MaineLady - Had no invovlement and was just offering her help if needed.

TerriJ - Thank you once again for your willingness to join the forum, assure everyone that Sadie is in good hands and provide info on Kevin. We look forward to updates on her.

shilohsmom, AllieG, JeanKBBMMMAAN, MollyM, BowWowMeow, and others from previous pages - I agree the focus should be on the remaining three dogs Kevin had in his possession now that Sadie/Queen is safe.

I did check references on Kevin for Billy's adoption. He had a female GSD that he's had for five years and had done extensive training with as a TD. The trainer he worked with a person who has 30+ years experience and certifies TDs. The home visit form was faxed to PA so I never actually saw it but have no doubt there were no red flags there.
Kevin asked lots of questions about rescue and expressed an interest in fostering after Billy had time to settle in. He kept in contact almost daily through emails, phone calls and sent pictures after Billy was adopted. 

When Kevin was ready to foster, Juliette needed to be returned from an adopter and was placed with Kevin. Her adopter also met Kevin and was convinced she was in good hands. I also had a lot of contact with this adopter and continue that today. Kevin continued to keep in contact and also sent pictures of her. 

I was told his brother was planning on adopting her but before that was finalized Tess and I parted ways. If the adoption went through I would really like to have the info to contact his brother for insight as to what went wrong here.

Kevin actually expressed interest in adopting Queen specifically. Since he was already an approved adopter AND foster with training experience there was never a real need for Queen to be fostered before she was placed with him. He and his family did travel to pick up Queen and Summer so Tess did get to meet the whole family. He continued our contact and couldn't say enough good things about Queen. I'm sure he told Tess the same as she stated earlier. 

He did tell me he had some problems with Summer, who was placed as a foster, being aggressive with his female but seemed to have that under control.

This is when things started going wrong.

Around that time he told me he was moving. Then problems came up with the new house not being ready when he had to be out of the old one and the family would be staying temporarily at a motel. Next he told me that Summer bit a child and he "turned her in." Contact with the AC and HS in his area did not back up that claim as they had no report of a bite incident and had no GSDs there. 

Contact that had been going on for months suddenly stopped. Tess contacted me saying she could no longer reach him either. I don't know if he just became overwhelmed or what but that's irrelevant because the way he handled the situation was just WRONG. I hope there are consequences for his actions and was glad to see other rescues admit they had run into similar problems.

I was able to locate Queen. What I really would like now is just to be able to try to locate the other dogs or to have Tess confirm the safety of which ones are accounted for. She did state correctly earlier on this thread that she knew I loved Billy. He's a sweet boy who spent his life in a back yard and came within hours of dying at Miami-Dade. I thought I was placing him with someone who would give him the life he deserved to have I to live with that.

I hope Tess will read this and come back to the thread so we can concentrate our efforts on the dogs. Personal differences aside, they are what's important here.


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## TESS

AS I STATED EARLIER IN THIS POST brt was my volunteer. Maine Lady was not, and I did not say nor imply she was. Maine Lady first offered help to me on this thread alone, and I have never spoken with her or shared anything more than a pm with some possible Maine contact numbers to assist me in finding him.
Brt loved these dogs and loves dogs generally. She contributes enormously to the cause in ways you guys will never see or know. She has a background in gsds most of you also do not have and will never have. Life trying to run a rescue and place dogs for adoptions was too hectic on the many points of interest we were and ARE NOW still getting - particularly given brt's circumstances. I have no doubt in my mind that brt would have stayed in touch and diligently checked Kevin's references. I have no doubt in my mind she would have been completely honest with me and truly believed that Kevin was a good adopter and foster. Everyone who met him believed that. I am also not going to assume he was evill or nasty - sometimes life just deals you a bumb hand. He responded horribly but now it is time to fix it where I can - now that I know. We were fooled.
I am working on finding my dogs and will see what I can do toward that productive end. I needed help and that was the ONLY original point of this thread. I DO NOT AND NONE OF US need the backbiting, suspicion, accusations, blatant and veiled threats and attempts or actions to execute on such threats. I am fatigued by the distraction, I think it is truly lowering this board and will NOT participate in those activities. I will put my energy where it is needed - saving these souls.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Jazy's mom

Several people have offered to help, but it is difficult to help you unless we know what the status of the other three dogs is or at least what you know so far.


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## kathyb

The most important thing here is to find these dogs and we need to all work together to get this done.


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## TerriJ

Here is a picture of Sadie/Queen taken out in the yard. I hope this works, I've never done this before.







<a href="http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/hildabeest/?action=view&current=sadie2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/hildabeest/sadie2.jpg" border="0" alt="Pretty Sadie"></a>


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## pupresq

If you're using photobucket don't use the coding option on this board because then it gets doubly coded. Just cut and paste the entire string in the "IMG Code" box into your message.


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## JakodaCD OA

mmmm didn't work ),,,I see you have the pics on photobucket,,copy the "url" by right clicking and then "paste" the url here...)

I haven't joined in this thread but have read it,,and Terri, can I suggest trying Desitin on Sadie's butt sores?? Alot of us who have had gsd's with PF's (perianal fistula's) have used desitin with remarkable healing properties,,so just an idea for you..)


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## Jax08

oh she looks so happy!!!


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## Sue F

Let's see if this works!


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## Sue F

She is gorgeous!!!


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## JakodaCD OA

awww what a pretty girl,,she has such a girly soft face ))))


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## TerriJ

Hi Diane,
I just went back here and the picture is on but I'm still not sure how I did it. Isn't there an easier way to get pictures on? Thanks for the idea about Desitin, after 4 kids and 10 grandkids that should have been the first thing to think of.
TerriJ


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## Jax08

I like this one. What a great smile!!


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## TerriJ

Here is a new picture to try. Thank you for the help.


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## TerriJ

Hey, how did you do that? Can any one put my pictures on here?


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## TerriJ

This is me with my service dog, Havana, Sadie's big sister.


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## Jax08

I sent you an PM with the instructions on posting a pic that was sent to me a while ago so you know how I did it.


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## Betty

She's a beauty! Her grin says it all!


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## TerriJ

Thanks Betty, I think she's pretty happy here. Sadie is laying here beside me while I type this and she looks real content. The rest of the girls went into the bedroom so I think she is waiting for me to go to.


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## shilohsmom

oh they are both so beautiful!!!! Sadie look so happy...and why wouldn't she be...looks like she has a wonderful and loving home. Thanks for sharing the pics!


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## ncgsdmom

Both of them are stunning, and look so happy. I love the way they are both smiling!! Great pictures. Sadie looks so eager...like she is just waiting to play!!


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## TerriJ

This is a great picture of Sadie and Havana. We were getting ready to play ball.


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## Jax08

Tess...could we please have an update on how you are making out with the other dogs?


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## shilohsmom

I'd like to know the statis of those other dogs as well.


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## Karin

I read through this entire sad thread last night and feel so sorry for these dogs. I was wondering about a couple of things:

--How did this Kevin make initial contact (and to who) that he wanted to adopt or be a foster?

--It sounds like his address is now known because Terri has gone to his house to purchase a dog from him. So, can he be contacted to find out if those other dogs are OK?

I was also wondering if he's a member of this board and/or is monitoring this thread AND if he has also gotten dogs from other rescues/shelters/Craigslist ads. It sounds like he is trying to find good looking dogs to sell at a great profit. That is bad enough, but I truly hope that is ALL he is doing because there are much worse fates for dogs.

When we adopted Heidi, we had to fill out an extensive form and they came for a home visit. They also looked at my driver's license to make sure I was who I said I was and I lived where I said I did. That said, I can see where it would be really hard to follow up on people. There are unscrupulous people out there who are very charming and seem sincere, but are actually the opposite of what they appear.

This is so sad for everyone involved. I'm so glad that Sadie/Queen found a good home. That is the only bright spot in this thread. I hope that the other missing GSDs can be tracked down and accounted for (and rescued again, if necessary). I think it's time to put the focus totally on them now.


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## Jax08

I think Tess has answered most of those questions and I absolutely agree that the focus should be on the remaining dogs. Hopefully, Tess will come back to this post and everyone can put bad feelings aside to help the dogs.


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## TerriJ

<span style="color: #6633FF"> </span> Karin, I don't know the answer to your 1st question but in answer to the next one is that yes I know his address as does Animal Welfare Maine because they went to his house to see him and he had just his own 2 dogs and it seems that his phone numbers have been changed also. That is all I know right now but if I hear of anything else, I will certainly share the info with all of you.


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## Karin

Thanks for your reply, Terri. I'd recommend not posting any of his personal information here because of privacy concerns. It's good to know that Animal Welfare went to his house, but it really makes you wonder what happened to the other dogs he had. That would be great if you let us know of any updates to this situation if you hear of them.

Thanks again for being such a good mom to Sadie/Queen. At least that's one less dog to worry about.


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## kathyb

Are the two dogs he has now two of the ones that we think is missing? The other dog was surpose to be with his brother I think?


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## TerriJ

No. One is an older GSD and the other is a dachshund.


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: Jax08Tess...could we please have an update on how you are making out with the other dogs?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Any news?


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## ILGHAUS

BUMP for news?


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## ILGHAUS

A month later -- has the question on the whereabouts of the 3 other dogs been resolved yet?


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## kathyb

I hav







e been asking Tess for some pictures of the dogs that she has helped and I got some yesturday, I could not find the dogs post so I am putting them here.

This is Ubu from Greenville, GA


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## kathyb

Captain from MD


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## kathyb

Mobley from Chatsworth, GA


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## kathyb

Dixie from GA


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## kathyb

eight pups from NC


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## kathyb




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## TESS

more


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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS

Ubu at her home


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## TESS

Ubu today


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## TESS

ubu in he mud


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## TESS

Ubu's best friend in mud too


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## TESS




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## TESS




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## TESS




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## ILGHAUS

Nice pictures but I'm confused. Are any of these pictures of the dogs that were missing -- Summer, Billie, or Juliette?


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## Lauri & The Gang

Kathyb and Tess,

As you can see many members of the board are concerned about the status of the three missing dogs.

Speaking for myself (not a moderator) - I'd find it very hard to consider anyone a REPUTABLE rescuer if they refused to answer a questions about dogs they placed that have gone missing.

If you cannot keep track of the dogs you are placing then maybe you need to not take so many? And I certainly don't understand why you would be taking in MORE dogs when you have ones you can't account for.


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## Prinzsalpha

Tess it was nice to see some the happy endings. Thanks for sharing.


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## TESS

To Myoung - thanks for sharing the joy.
To Lauri and the Gang: Interesting, however mistaken, thoughts you possess. You really do not have the info needed nor knowledge necessary to make the judgments you so want to make. I am not interested in popularity - I am am happy to be judged by those who have the right, the contact and the information to do so. Certain members of this very board are not being completely forthright about their motivations, their roles or their responsibilities. (But with posts like yours I can understand why.) It is not up to me to deal with that - it is for them to reconcile for themselves.
Criticize all you want - there is always something bad to say about anyone at all if you try hard enough. Good luck with that. I will be working on my dogs.
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: Tess Phila PATo Myoung - thanks for sharing the joy.
> To Lauri and the Gang: Interesting, however mistaken, thoughts you possess. You really do not have the info needed nor knowledge necessary to make the judgments you so want to make. I am not interested in popularity - I am am happy to be judged by those who have the right, the contact and the information to do so. Certain members of this very board are not being completely forthright about their motivations, their roles or their responsibilities. (But with posts like yours I can understand why.) It is not up to me to deal with that - it is for them to reconcile for themselves.
> Criticize all you want - there is always something bad to say about anyone at all if you try hard enough. Good luck with that. I will be working on my dogs.
> Tess in Philadelphia



*How about a STRAIGHT ANSWER.* Do you or do you NOT know where those missing dogs are? You yourself said they were missing.

This is yet another reason why people are beginning to question you. My questions have NOTHING to do with you being popular. They question your REPUTATION as a rescuer. I would think you would go above and beyond to show everyone here that there is nothing to question.



> Quote:I am am happy to be judged by those who have the right, the contact and the information to do so.


I have EVERY right as a dog lover to question you and since you refuse to answer these simple questions you leave me (and anyone else reading this) no choice but to pass judgment based on your actions here.


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## ILGHAUS

> Quote: I am am happy to be judged by those who have the right,


I am speaking as a Mod in Rescue and as an individual member here -- I am unsure of what exactly your statement means. As far as I am concerned anyone here has the right to question either organizations or individuals who use this board in the rescue process.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I get that too, from Rhaya (board owner's) rescue post. I always ask people to read this closely for everyone who rescues from this board. EVERYONE. 



> Quote:The Urgent Rescue forum is often the last hope for many rescues. It’s a place where emotions run high and haste is essential. That combination provides the energy necessary to save many Shepherds. Unfortunately, it also provides an opportunity for exploitation. There are some that visit this area only to exploit the animals and rescuers. Sadly there have been and continue to be cases were caring members have been deceived. This deception has cost some of our members a few dollars and some animals their lives.
> 
> Please remember the anonymous nature of the internet. Before you offer your financial help or surrender one of these animals, please ask yourself – What do I really know about this person?
> 
> So often rescue is about trust. It’s disheartening that there are those that will abuse that trust. Use caution and do a little research before you place your trust in people you know little about.
> 
> Hare are some warning signs:
> 
> 1. Members without rescue representation who offer to foster or adopt multiple dogs within a short time period, pregnant dogs, or litters of pups.
> 
> 2. Members who have fostered or adopted dogs from the rescue forums in the past, but have no current information on the disposition of those dogs. Goes double for those who have fostered or adopted dogs that ended up in questionable circumstances (lost, PTS without a viable explanation, not spayed/neutered, surrendered to shelters, given away to irresponsible owners).
> 
> 3. Members who decline home visits from rescue organizations.
> 
> 
> Here are some tips to help authenticate:
> 
> 1. The PA (Potential Adopter) MUST be approved by a local rescue group. Doesn't HAVE to be a Shepherd rescue groups but I would recommend a herding or working breed group.
> 
> 2. PA must provide work reference, vet reference and trainer reference.
> 
> 3. PA must agree to a home check (again - by a local rescue group).
> 
> Thank you,
> Rhaya


Those tips to help authenticate are not foolproof either. Things change, leadership changes, individual circumstances change. Current and up to date information is always needed, and people should be checking everyone and all rescues on an on-going basis. 

If I had a nickel...


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## shilohsmom

Looks like Summer has now been added to Sixth Angel's Happy Tails adopted page... Billy has been listed there for awhile.... We can only hope all the other dogs recently added have had a better outcome than these two and that the rescue knows where they are. 
Tess, dispite what I feel, I can't help but to think that you care about these dogs and their futures. On the other hand, as a rescue, you have taken on the responsibility of each and every dog you have pulled. While your heart may have been in the right place, your abilities to handle such a large volume of dogs is questionable. When others have asked you questions or expressed their concern you immediately get defensive and say they are the ones with attitude! 
It is my understanding that Billy went to Kevin and was approved as one of your adopters. Amazingly it seems everyone is able to find Kevin now but you. 
After that Queen was sent to him as a foster. 
Shortly after that Summer was sent to him (even though apparently he said he did NOT was another female as he had a female). This is where the trouble started. The two females fought and when Kevin attempted to call you many times to have you take Summer back none of his calls where returned. 
I heard something about Summer biting someone and being put down, but that part couldn't be confirmed. It makes sense to me that since he couldn't reach you he turned around and sold the two females. We know the happened to Sadie/Queen. 
Thankfully these boards are not our only forms of communication. I've heard many horror stories of transports gone wrong with you and your failure to communicate (not returning peoples calls). As a result, this whole story with Kevin and these dogs makes sense.
Those of us on these boards want rescues to work. We want these dogs saved. But at the same time, we watch out for those who's intentions are not in the dogs best interest, who take on more than they can handle, who's stories just don't add up and those who seem to have more secrets than answers.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I'll ask again about those dogs.


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## sitstay

Well, the person/people that have the answers are still posting in the rescue threads, so they are frequenting this forum.

To be perfectly honest, there are a couple of rescue people that I would like to hear from. One was involved in a huge bruhaha here last year, never answered any of the perfectly valid questions that arose and then just disappeared. They have now resurfaced and seem to be involved in pulling a lot of dogs. I can only hope that the issues that were of such concern initially have been cleared up.
Sheilah


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## Jazy's mom

> Originally Posted By: sit,stayI can only hope that the issues that were of such concern initially have been cleared up.
> Sheilah


Probably not, some of us are just more careful who we choose to work with.


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## TerriJ

This is to let everyone know how the former Queen and now Sadie is doing. She is the female GSD that was rescued from an Alabama kill shelter last spring, transported to Tess in Pennsylvania and adopted out to a man in Maine where I later bought her from. My buying her opened up the case of where this man had also fostered or adopted 3 other females and 1 male named Billy before I got Sadie/Queen and no one knows where these other dogs have gone.
Sadie had some issues to work on once I got her home beginning with her health. That took a couple of weeks to get a handle on. She also didn't want to be handled around her feet and her high prey drive wouldn't let her settle down and relax and she also had separation anxiety. Sadie also screeched like a banshee when she didn't get her way and her barking in the other dogs' faces told me she was going to get put in her place pretty quick and she did.








It took a lot of hard work, training, discipline and affection before Sadie found her place in my pack and she just recently took her Canine Good Citizen test and passed with flying colors.








Now Sadie has her ILP number with the AKC and her official name is Garter's Moonlight Serenade so that when we start doing Rally and Obedience trials next spring, every thing will fall into place for her and she will show people just what she could have been had she gotten the right start when she was a puppy and wouldn't have had to go through all that she did.








As far as I know, Sadie is the only dog that passed through Kevin's hands that we know where she ended up. The volunteer that contacted me originallly still doesn't know about Juliet, Summer and Billy or where they could possibly be. Tess would be the only one that might have that information.
I have enclosed a few new pics of Sadie and her new canine buddies.







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## Jax08

Woohoo!!! I love her AKC name!!


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## Jazy's mom

Thanks for the update. At least we know there was one happy ending.


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## shilohsmom

What a wonderful update!!! You have done a great job with Sadie. I have a feeling your both going to do great with the Rally Obedience work. Best of luck and keep us posted!


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## ILGHAUS

Is Tess still active here? Any update on her missing dogs?


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## TerriJ

Thank you for the votes of confidence. I forgot to add that where Sadie used to be really bad about having her feet touched she is now standing in line with the others when I do our weekly groom-n-tune. Once a week I sit on the floor with my gang and I check them from nose to tail for any issues they may have like teeth,ears, fur, tail and nails. When I do their nails I use a dremel tool and they like it alot better and as I finish each dog, they get a cookie. Sadie is very food motivated so she worked every thing out on her own and she is wonderful to groom.
The only thing we need to work on now is her getting in the other dogs faces when they are all out running. We will get that done too but it may take a little time.


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## TESS

I had no idea that anyone was still making this a live string until I glanced through some items tonight.
Kevin as a "distant foster" was not distant because the primary person I relied upon in my rescue was not far from him and checked references and talked to him a fair amount and that is all listed in detail above for all of you. The person who vetted Kevin is a long time member of this board and while she has not been active with my rescue for a long time I am sure she is active saving dogs in ways she can be. She was also apparently in touch with Kevin after ceasing with the rescue - of which I had not known nor been informed. No one expected this of him.
As to my dogs, I am addressing the issues I need - not on this board, not in ways this site will know about and will not do so in the future. So you can stop waiting.
I have read the venom and bile in the email strings of members of germanshepherds.com board mostly made up of a fair amount of the people posting here. By them I was only perplexed and saddened that so much time - I mean weeks and months not hours and days - could be spent that way when so many dogs need help and more time than I have to give.
So my conclusion has been and continues to be that saving dogs is not the appeal to but the antithesis of these posts and those posters. I for one will not abide in that. I shook the dust off my sandals. 
Tess in Philadelphia


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## Lauri & The Gang

The sad thing is the ones who are choking on the dust are the missing dogs.


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## katieliz

everybody in rescue, if you're in rescue long enough, is bound to have problems. dogs get loose on transports. dogs run out of doors opened by kids. and dogs even get adopted by dishonest people who despite vigorous screening pull the wool. but when a rescue is not totally transparent and forthcoming, and becomes defensive and offended when questions are asked, they draw the distrust and ultimately disrespect of those who do maintain those qualities which allow us to work together in a cooperative and trusting manner. 

my guess is that terry is indeed never going to tell this board what happened to the missing dogs (bless their hearts), and all the talk of sandals and dust is just smoke and mirrors.

you have to be so very careful who you work with.

jmho.


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## ILGHAUS

> Quote:my guess is that terry is indeed never going to tell this board what happened to the missing dogs


I think you meant to say Tess (rescue) not Terry (owner who bought a dog). 





> Quote:when a rescue is not totally transparent and forthcoming, and becomes defensive and offended when questions are asked, they draw the distrust and ultimately disrespect of those who do maintain those qualities which allow us to work together in a cooperative and trusting manner.


This is so very true.


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## Jax08

> Originally Posted By: ILGHAUS
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:my guess is that terry is indeed never going to tell this board what happened to the missing dogs
> 
> 
> 
> I think you meant to say Tess (rescue) not Terry (owner who bought a dog).
Click to expand...

Tess's name is actually Terry. 

Not to be confused with Sadie's owner "Terry".


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## Jazy's mom

> Originally Posted By: katielizeverybody in rescue, if you're in rescue long enough, is bound to have problems. dogs get loose on transports. dogs run out of doors opened by kids. and dogs even get adopted by dishonest people who despite vigorous screening pull the wool. but when a rescue is not totally transparent and forthcoming, and becomes defensive and offended when questions are asked, they draw the distrust and ultimately disrespect of those who do maintain those qualities which allow us to work together in a cooperative and trusting manner.
> 
> my guess is that terry is indeed never going to tell this board what happened to the missing dogs (bless their hearts), and all the talk of sandals and dust is just smoke and mirrors.
> 
> you have to be so very careful who you work with.
> 
> jmho.


I could not have said it better.


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## Lauri & The Gang

> Originally Posted By: katieliz<span style='font-size: 17pt'>*you have to be so very careful who you work with.*</span>


I thought that bore repeating.


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## kathyb

It might be that Tess can not say what she is doing to try to find out about these dogs right now.


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## Jax08

Why? Is it illegal? 

If she can't then all she has to do is say that instead of babbling about how we are all horrible and she's out saving dogs...blah...blah...blah...


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## Prinzsalpha




----------

