# Dad wants to return GS to shelter



## rosieenguyen (Jul 14, 2016)

A quick background: I recently adopted a German Shepherd mix about three weeks ago. His name is Blackjack and he's two years old. At the adoption event he was perfectly calm, but did react subtly to some strangers. The foster family (a young man and woman couple) assured me that he loves other people, dogs, and children. His records even said he had no bite history. Blackjack is incredibly sweet to almost every person he's met and loves socializing at the dog park. 

However, the first time he met my dad he barked and began to growl. This behavior has not changed. I've tried teaching him how to quiet when asked and have even resorted to using the pet corrector spray bottle. He continues to bark and growl at bigger males when they approach him. My dad has taken him out to potty, fed him, etc. but has a short patience. Blackjack will not react when my dad is simply sitting there or talking calmly, but as soon as he gets up the barking starts again. The other day, my dad reacted violently and probably stressed Blackjack even more. 

Now, my dad has given me an ultimatum to return him to the shelter or move out. I love Blackjack very much, but am really afraid for his behavior and possibly my dad's future reaction to it. He usually is quiet and cuddles, but just seems to hate my dad. Any solutions for a quick(er) way to stop him from barking and growling?


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

Honestly it sounds like this dog isn't a good fit for your current living situation. Your dad has no patience and reacts violently. Dog is already distrustful of him. If Dad isn't willing to change his behavior, the dog isn't going to change his and no amount of training on your part is going to make that change. For the dog's sake, I'd choose one of the options your dad gave you before something bad happens. Ifvit does, the dog WILL have a bite history and this will affect his chances of a good home later. Tough situation. Good luck.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

Btw, correcting him in your dad's presence could be making the problem worse if he is scared of him to begin with.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

i would speak with a good dog trainer about your options.
Some dogs are just scared of men. Maybe it is possible for him to warm up to your dad but spary corrections are just stressing him out and teaching him he is correct to be tense in your dads presence. Him living with you to and your father maybe he feels trapped with someone he does not trust so he is getting defensive out of fear. Your dad hitting him or whatever you mean by reacting violently even if its just yelling is only solidifying/reinforcing blackjacks behaviour in his own mind. GSDs were dogs bred to exhibit human aggression when mixed with dogs who dont have the nerves and confidence of a well bred gsd this HA instinct can come out due to fear in a way that you described. Some one would have to be there to see how bad it is and if it can be worked on. Either way i doubt someone will be able to help you over the internet nor will you be able to fix it yourself. The dog should be returned back to the foster because it is unfair to force him to live in such high stress every day or you should consult a professional. 

good luck and give us an update!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Can you move out? If not, please call the foster family so that Blackjack can go back to them, not to the shelter's kennels.

This dog is reacting out of fear to big men, most likely because he's had bad experiences with big men in the past (being hit, seeing someone he loved hit, etc.), and now that experience is being replicated in your home. 

While this kind of person-specific fear can be rehabilitated (and I've done that rehab many times, with the help of a gentle, patient man committed to helping the dog), your dad is not presently on board for that rehab. In fact, he's an obstacle to it. Your dad has 100% confirmed to this dog that the dog's fear of big men is valid (by being violent with him) -- the dog knows for certain now that big men (and especially your dad) are a menace. 

You cannot rehabilitate it with your dad acting like that -- it's simply impossible. You cannot help Blackjack overcome this while living in the house with a man with a temper who will flash his anger at the dog. Your dad's conduct (and your follow-up corrections) dramatically increased the odds that this dog will be stuck in an escalating fear cycle that could very well lead to a bite someday -- and the dog will then be put down, even though a different home and situation could have helped him blossom into a fantastic dog.

Understand that the energy you dad is giving off toward the dog is something the dog instinctively recognizes as a genuine threat to himself. He's in fight or flight mode, and he's choosing to confront the source of the threat. If he develops a deep bond with you over time, he's very likely to also start trying to protecting _you_ from that perceived threat too (even if you don't view it as a threat to your safety). 

I deeply believe that character is borne out of what we do, not what we say. If violence toward animals is who your dad is, rehome the dog or move, as the dog deserves to live in a home where he's not made to feel afraid. The foster home was probably patient and calm, so he thrived in it. He needs a forever home like that too. Please do not adopt another dog while living under your parents' roof.

I honestly think sending _you _to a trainer is wasted money because anything you learn will be undone by your dad reacting impatiently and/or violently with the dog -- one step forward, three steps back. Sending _your dad _to a trainer might be useful so that you could work on this as a family, but from your description, it doesn't sound like he has the personality to want to help the dog--if I'm wrong about that, then family training could be beneficial, so that your father could learn to be part of the rehab process.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

One other thought that I want to be very direct with you about, as it requires you to do some self-reflection:

I've sometimes seen strong GSDs reacting this way when they have "weak" owners (it's a pattern that usually seems to involve timid women who are inexperienced dog owners, with strong, assertive [usually male] GSDs). My intuition is that these dogs feel like they need to be in charge and protect their owner, because the owner isn't in charge. I've seen this pattern with both very young owners, and with elderly owners.

In rescue, I've seen a few of these dogs _totally _transform in the hands of an experienced, confident handler--they seem to relax, and breathe a sigh of relief, that the human finally has things under control, and then they settle in to just following good leadership and enjoying the world. The problems vanished in a different home. In fact, sometimes those same males dogs become AMAZING dogs who bond very deeply with women who give them calm, predictable, stable, benevolent leadership. 

I mention this only because my guess from your post is that you are young, and this is your first dog. You likely lack confidence in your handling skills, if that's a correct guess. You may be entering into one of these patterns where the dog feels like it has to be in charge because you aren't (and by that I mean deal with perceived threats in whatever way he deems appropriate). He may not be the right first dog for you. Or you may need to learn very quickly how to be a good leader (which a trainer _can _help with) -- including telling your dad clearly and firmly to back off with the yelling and violence (which, I fully understand, may not be possible in your family dynamic). 

I don't know your family dynamic, so all I can say is do some thinking about whether it's possible for you to be that kind of leader while you are living in your parents' house. Being this kind of leader is not about disciplining the dog when the source of the problem is fear. It's about convincing your dog that you're in charge of your environment, you will protect it so it doesn't have to protect you, and he can 100% trust you (and the rest of your family) because your world is predictable, stable, and fair.


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## MollyMarie (Jan 22, 2016)

The last thing a fearful dog needs is to be around someone that acts out violently and scares the dog even more!!!  Sadly, Blackjack might not be a good fit for your family - especially since your father doesn't seem to want him.  If you return him to the shelter, I would definitely mention that he has fear issues with men. 

I wish you the best in making the right decision for you and your dog.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Since he did well in fostering there is something about your home that isn't working out for him. It's not a match.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww man ... I'm not usually in the majority??? But "this" is just not a good situation for this dog. This dog already has a "people issue" and the "squirt bottle correction" is not they way to address "people issues"by the way. 

There are "effective things" that can be done but they don't work if the dog is living under "threat of violence" by a pack member??? You can't practice "calm assertive leadership" if your dog is under "threat" when your not eyes on??? As was stated "this" is not a good match. 

If you can move you and this dog out of your current situation??? That would be a bit different and for the record ... "some people" can "fix" there dog with advise from the "internet!" Been there done that "worked out fine." You just need to know where to look, I have helped out others by pointing them in the direction "I" took and they have said ... "Thank You" ... Just saying. 

You did your best but if the dog has to live under "threat" with you??? Then another home would be the best thing you could do for him, sorry.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My guess is that Dad wasn't too keen on the idea of you getting a GSD in the first place, whether he voiced that or not. I think he started out wary of the dog and his internal bias did not go unnoticed by the dog. The dog does not reason that some folks have had a bad experience, that this is fear and not aggression, etc, etc. The dog senses something, lets just suggest a darkness, which tells him that something bad might happen, this person is going to try to hurt him. 

Lots of people have a healthy respect for GSDS. Some downright fear them. Dogs respond to the pharamones and body language of people with different levels of intensity.

The thing is, your dad is your dad. If you can move out, that would be great. You wouldn't have to give up your dad or your dog, just living there in your dad's house. You can be understanding about your dad's inexperience or experience with members of the breed, and not force the dog on him. 

If you can't move out, rehome the dog. Your dog can build his confidence in you to protect him and you can maintain the distance that is right for the dog between other people. But all of that becomes infinitely more difficult when you have someone living in the house with you that has this darkness that the dog is sensing and reacting to. It isn't fair to either party, really. 

I am sorry. I know it isn't easy. Don't get another GSD until you can move out on your own, because I think your dad, well even if he would have less trouble with a puppy getting used to it and vice versa when it is still too small to do damage, he still holds a card you just can't trump. If he says, the dog has to go, and you can't pick up and leave, then you will be going through even more pain.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Your dad should try and win the dogs trust back. Have him pet him gently and feed him some treats. He probably hit the dog, which is messed up.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Julian G said:


> Your dad should try and win the dogs trust back. Have him pet him gently and feed him some treats. He probably hit the dog, which is messed up.


 Well in as much as this is a "people" issue outside of the OP's control ... there is not much we can do about it?? The OP understands the two viable options. 

There is no indication that "Dad" thinks he has a problem?? So ... yeah ... but ... if he did? The course of action outlined above?? Would be absolutely "Not" the way to deal with this dog. 

You started this thread:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-what-extent-should-you-love-working-pup.html

The correct answer is in there, what you suggest "here" ... is why people need dog trainers.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

3 Weeks for a 2 year old dog, GS or not, isn't long enough for every dog to cope with this huge change. I bet it would take just 1 or 2 great interactions with your dad to jump on board. May take the dog a little longer. it might be an "older guy" issue. If you know your dad is about to hop up off the couch or out of the chair, prepare! Move your dog first or put him in a down position then ask your dad to move. start slow and keep control. 

If your dog does not know "down"... teach him today, right now actually. "sit" means nothing to a dog on a dog level. it's a trick AND a dog cant "sit" for extended periods of times in complete comfort. When you have a dog go in to down position you are asking him to submit to you. Teach down then transition in to your dad teaching down. Then teach "long down". Have fun and keep it positive.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

the OP hasn't been active since they made the 1st post 3 days ago. everyone's talking to a wall.


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