# Would like your suggestion:



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Kira is 7 months today. I've been doing the best I can to enforce a strong basic obedience foundation, and I feel so far, so good.

I'm a bit confused about using a proper approach to this particular command:

Kira's sit / stay / wait / down are strong. I can issue anytime, and get excellent results.

I've been working on a "drop or down" command with hand signals from a short distance.

Right now, from up to about 100', I can easily say her name, wave my arm in a swift downward motion, and she'll drop.
*The way I taught her this, is by calling her on recall (this is where I feel I made a mistake), and while she was on her way to me, I would randomly issue the "down", with the hand signal.

Now, if I issue her recall, she's very confused. She would approach me, and when she gets into the "down zone", she would go down, get up, go down, get up, and approach me with the "I;m not sure what to do look" on her face.*

I would like to correct this, but don't know how.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I've made the same mistake in similar commands. Or I should say, my daughter has. She has a habit of giving all the commands that she knows the dogs know, in a row, to get a treat. So now when she tells them to sit; they sit, sit pretty, lay down, roll over, get up, turn, offer a paw and speak. 
I think (I could be wrong) but you have to, in a sense, start over. Did you possibly over-train the "down"? You said randomly, but was it more often than not?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i have a hand signal for come, stop/wait, down
and sit. if i want my dog to come i wave my arm
towards me. for stop/wait i placed i my arm straight out
in front of me with my palm up. for down i use to place
my right hand on my left shoulder and swing my arm
across my body while pointing to the ground. for sit
i use my right hand palm up and raise my hand up. i think
Kira is confused about what you're asking her to do. i'm
thinking if you have a hand signal for each command it might
help. when i was teaching my dog hand signals i didn't do
all of them in the same session.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

so if I'm understanding this right, (and hey good for you and her for teaching a drop on recall!!) You want to be able to just recall without her being confused at a certain point or should I say ANTICIPATING that drop command..

If so,,back up or should I say,,start by being closer to her, like 5 feet, have her doing her sit/down stay/wait whatever, do the recall, praise good recall,,start working your distance slowly..

I agree with the above, she's rather confused you probably have your distance to great at this point, and she is also ANTICIPATING that down on recall. 

I'd work on the recall only for a few days, don't push your distance so far, and then start mixing it up..IF you think she's reverting back to that down on recall when you only want a recall, as soon as she looks like she is going to down or hesitating, I 'd turn around and RUN calling her to you...

Ok just some ideas


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## Heidij (Dec 6, 2011)

If you have a command a negative marker, such as no try again, give that right when she slows down. Do a bunch o regular recalls, starting short and gettif longer. Also, do the positions at a distance and recall after that.
Then try a heel or walking and give her a down/ stay and walk a few steps then recall. The confusion comes from training the new behavior without balancing in the old. Shouldn't be too hard to clear up for the dog


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## koda00 (Apr 27, 2009)

JakodaCD OA said:


> so if I'm understanding this right, (and hey good for you and her for teaching a drop on recall!!) You want to be able to just recall without her being confused at a certain point or should I say ANTICIPATING that drop command..
> 
> If so,,back up or should I say,,start by being closer to her, like 5 feet, have her doing her sit/down stay/wait whatever, do the recall, praise good recall,,start working your distance slowly..
> 
> ...


 
This is exactly what i would have done!:thumbup:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I would work on the recall in motion 1,000% first -- so strong that if the dog were to rush out of fear or panic , you still have her - I like the cake made before icing


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

agree on backing it up some. I know when I teach Jinx something new I have a tendency to practice the new a bunch and not throw in enough of the old so things that are similar she starts to override the old with the new. Like with you she had good recall then you did the drop in motion and now she does that instead of the regular recall instead of doing both (happens to me alot dont feel bad lol)

Not much advice on it because I can't even get her to do the drop in motion she runs to me and then does the command lol can get her to stop running to me but if when she stops I say sit or platz she will finish running to me then do it even though she will sit and platz from a distance so long as it's from a stay position :shrug: So Kuddos to you on this one  I know you like to second guess yourself but remember shes young and you are doing GREAT so far!

Only thing I can think of is when you see her start hesitating start running backwards and get more excited to keep her running towards you. basically run backwards start clapping acting like a dork with "YAY good girl, good come" or whatever you use so she knows you want her to continue coming. Also mix the 2 up (straight recall and recall with the drop) so she can't keep anticipating the next step (sometimes not so easy having an overly smart pup is it? lol) and possibly throwing in a hand sign so for now she knows no hand sign is regular recall and if dads gonna drop me he will put his hand up or something like that?


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

There are two things here:

1. She's confused, and I think people have given you excellent advice so far. Remember that a drop-on-recall is a composition of two exercises - recall and down. I would work on making sure each of those is very solid and clear in her head. Down command (with or without hand signal, or the command could be a hand signal (although I wouldn't recommend just using the signal for obvious reasons - she may not always be looking)) should be taught separately from the recall - maybe once she learned the drop-on-recall you started only using it during a recall? I would back both of these up and work on making the separate commands clear in her head before using them together.
2. She could be anticipating the down. A good example is a dog that anticipates the recall from a down and starts creeping forward, twitching around, and generally not sitting still. He may get up and start to run towards you before the command, etc. Maybe you were constantly (or mostly) recalling her and rewarding the down not the recall , she wants to get the reward faster so she may down before the command is given. I wouldn't reward this, instead I would encourage her to get back up and come towards me (no reason to get mad, she's not defying you she's just confused - try to remember that when it happens  ) and then reward the recall. Then I would _slowly_ re-introduce the down but since she's anticipating I would start by adding (and rewarding) the down maybe every 4-5th recall, etc etc. 

You need to keep her guessing and be consistently inconsistent 

Hope this helps!


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> so if I'm understanding this right, (and hey good for you and her for teaching a drop on recall!!) You want to be able to just recall without her being confused at a certain point or should I say ANTICIPATING that drop command..
> 
> If so,,back up or should I say,,start by being closer to her, like 5 feet, have her doing her sit/down stay/wait whatever, do the recall, praise good recall,,start working your distance slowly..
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did this with Arwen, my first obedience dog. I understand why people often get the CD before starting to train the drop on recall. It is a common mistake. Your girl is young, and your distance is far, I would work on only recalls for a while, and with shorter distance, and bring out the treats. show it to her put it in your mouth, and when she comes front and sits, spit it at her. Train your drop or down separately. Like when you are walking along, emergency down. Good luck.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

carmspack said:


> I would work on the recall in motion 1,000% first -- so strong that if the dog were to rush out of fear or panic , you still have her - I like the cake made before icing


I agree.

Yesterday I had her out in an open field. I was working on random recalls. I would let her sniff around, roam,and then give her a quick "Kira Come!". Each and every time, she responded, and came back to me. THEN, a jogger (with his dog) passed within site distance. She made a quick dash towards the jogger. I issued the COME command,and she made an immediate U-turn, and RELUCTANTLY made her way towards me. It was a slow, agonizing pace back to me ..LOL But she did it.

I want a 100% fool proof recall. I've personally seen dogs get hit by vehicles, and people get frightened to death from a dog running away from his owner.
I want to make sure I never experience that with Kira.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

selzer said:


> I did this with Arwen, my first obedience dog. I understand why people often get the CD before starting to train the drop on recall. It is a common mistake. Your girl is young, and your distance is far, I would work on only recalls for a while, and with shorter distance, and bring out the treats. show it to her put it in your mouth, and when she comes front and sits, spit it at her. Train your drop or down separately. Like when you are walking along, emergency down. Good luck.


Just to be clear..... I'm not working her at that distance. I said that she responds up to about 100'. I'm usually within 20-40 feet right now. At times she would roam, and I would test her. Otherwise my exercises are within a shorter distance.

Thank you.

I crave the knowledge that many of you have. It's frustrating to want to do something so right, but not know how to do it.

Not enough trainers around her...if any.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Anthony8858 said:


> Just to be clear..... I'm not working her at that distance. I said that she responds up to about 100'. I'm usually within 20-40 feet right now. At times she would roam, and I would test her. Otherwise my exercises are within a shorter distance.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> ...


Dude, you're doing great. Anticipation will happen, especially with a motivated dog. Confusion will happen, it's how we learn where we moved too fast, made some mistakes, etc.  Kira sounds like a well behaved dog and she's still young! I wouldn't worry too much - just back up a few steps, work on each exercise individually and when she's clear on both you can start to combine them... 

I think we all spend a lot of time preventing anticipation and proofing these things, so don't stress about it too much...


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

ayoitzrimz said:


> Dude, you're doing great. Anticipation will happen, especially with a motivated dog. Confusion will happen, it's how we learn where we moved too fast, made some mistakes, etc.  Kira sounds like a well behaved dog and she's still young! I wouldn't worry too much - just back up a few steps, work on each exercise individually and when she's clear on both you can start to combine them...
> 
> I think we all spend a lot of time preventing anticipation and proofing these things, so don't stress about it too much...


She is doing great. Thank you. She loves to learn.

I guess I'm trying to say that I wish I knew more about the methods to proper training and technique.
If I could have my way, I'd spend 5 days a week in training with her. I love training her, as much as she loves being trained.

Right now, we attend 1 day a week of obedience classes. It's a bit redundant, and very confined to a small indoor space. The trainer told me that Kira is very advanced for her class, but too young and not advanced enough to go the next level. I just have to keep enforcing what we've learned thus far.


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