# Raw and pancreatitis



## samralf (Dec 23, 2008)

I was wondering if you can you feed a dog with pancreatitis a raw diet? He also has severe food allergies. I would like to get my shelties eating raw but I'm kind of nervous because Charlie only seems to do good with kibble from the vets. Any advice?


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I'd proceed extremely cautiously with a raw diet in your situation. I home cook by boiling off the excess fat before I fed the meat to my dog. 

The leanest meat, like chicken breast (with no skin or fat), has only 1% or so of fat. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/poultry-products/701/2 

But organ meats and bone marrow tend to be higher in fat. Even a couple percent could be too much, depending on how hot your dog's pancreas runs. Part of the problem is that with fresh meat, it's hard to know the exact fat percentage in each piece, and we really need to know that. 

If you really want to try, your vet may be able to refer you to a canine nutritionist. My internist mentioned to me the website BalanceIt.com once. She said she has clients that have used it and were happy with it. She wasn't necessarily endorsing it, but I took a look and thought it was all right. Not great, but better than vet Rx diets in this sort of situation. At least you know where the food is coming from, and you know your pup is getting a balanced diet, if you don't know all that much about nutrition. 

I've opted to go with a combination of home cooked and premium reduced fat kibble for my girl. (She wouldn't touch the prescription veterinary diets). That works well for us. 

Pancreatitis is just too dangerous to mess with. So if you can find something that's better than the Rx diet, that might be better without going all the way to raw. There are some decent low-fat foods at any good pet store that you might try, depending what (how low of fat content) you're feeding now. A couple of manufacturers have either "ultra low fat" or "senior low fat" foods. That's where you'll find the best fat percentages for kids like ours.


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## samralf (Dec 23, 2008)

His levels are usually in the 500's when we get him checked. I guess I should hold off on the raw then. He does get some good kibble. He eats Innova low-fat and prescription diet w/d. I'd rather him eat kibble and be alive then eat raw and have something bad happen. I will talk to my vet though but I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for the reply!


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## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

FWIW I know people who feed dogs with pancreatitis raw with great success. They chose to feed raw because it allowed them better control of the diet than any of the decent kibbles on the market.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

I guess some would depend on whether the dog has acute or chronic pancreatitis and what predisposes them to an episode?

I personally wouldn't feed a dog that's predisposed to pancreatitis a raw diet. Especially if they were still in or healing from an episode. Too high fat.  I would feed them a cooked diet from home though, and would probably boil and skim the meat as mentioned.

I have the book Optimal Nutrition written by Monica Segal and in it she has a chapter on pancreatitis. I read through the pages and found a few interesting highlights.

You mentioned your dog having severe food allergies. Do you know what they are? Have you ever done an elimination diet?

I ask as Segal writes, 

"Pancreatitis can be secondary to intestinal immune-mediated reactions such as food allergy or inflammatory bowel disease. Suspicion of food allergy can be minimized and the allergy often controlled through an elimination diet. . . 

The pancreas is a store house for pancreatic enzymes, and foods high in fat and protein trigger the greatest enzyme secretion. While this is a normal response to eating a meal, in some dogs the response is excessive and linked to inflammation of the pancreas. . .

Once a dog has has an attack of pancreatitis, there is no option but to feed a diet very low in fat. . .The reason for this is simple: the inflamed pancreas cannot tolerate any stimulus. . .The reduction of the inflammation is an individual response. . .Some cases of pancreatitis become chronic, and the dog must consume low fat for life, while in other cases, the dog may resume a normal diet within a few weeks. . .

Raw or Cooked Diet? . . .my experience over the years has been that healing is fastest on a cooked diet. Although we can choose raw foods that are lean, we can skim even more fat from the same foods if we cook it. While this may seem like a small difference to us, it translates to a very big one for the dog. I strongly urge you to feed a cooked diet to a dog that is recovering from pancreatitis. In most cases, this same dog can eat a raw diet later on but initially, the pancreas needs every bit of help it can get." (p118-120)

Segal does dog diets if you are interested and needed a hand getting it together. http://www.monicasegal.com/


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## samralf (Dec 23, 2008)

The vet says we did an elimination diet but I don't think we did. The only thing we did was give him a new protein, kangaroo. He somehow knows Charlie is allergic to dairy, wheat, beef, and I don't remember the whole list. I will look into a cooked diet. Thanks for the help y'all!!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

For my girl that had chronic pancreatitis, I fed/feed homecooked -- she could never tolerate raw, not even raw, minced vegetables.

Good luck!


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## jfisher (Dec 29, 2005)

LOL I always like to chime in on these threads because I actually have Chronic Pancreatitis myself, so canine pancreatitis is an interest of mine and I read up on it quite a bit.

How was Charlie diagnosed originally? Does he have recurring episodes of acute attacks or has his pancreas gotten to the point where it doesn't work properly at all anymore?

I know of cases of canines with pancreatitis who are fed a raw diet. The most important thing is controlling fat intake. That is the number one thing to avoid with pancreatitis (well, that and alcohol, but I don't think that'll be a problem in your dog's case! ) If you think you can manage a varied diet with the lowest possible fat content, it might work for him. I would think a lot of white meats and seafood. Some game meats too tend to be low in fat, for example, venison. It would take some thorough research.

I too would rather have my dog on a diet I could control rather than a manufactured dog food. It's kinda like going out to a restaurant for me...I have to be very careful because though the waiter might SAY this or that is low or non-fat, who knows what the cook might have added to the dish or if the waiter is really that knowledgeable about it.

Good luck!

-Jackie


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

There is a condition that is recognized in Traditional Chinese Medicine, where the nature of the body, does not do well on raw food. Sometimes it's more than just an issue of fat.

The reason I stress that, is that it's very easy to convince yourself, that if you do it just right, then your dog should be able to handle raw. Some can, some can't. Been there, done that, and my dog paid for my continued insistence that I should be able to get her on a raw diet. 

I don't know about humans, but in dogs there are many causes of pancreatitis. Most of the time, they can't determine the cause. The end effect is that they don't tolerate fat very well, but the cause may be autoimmune, vaccination, parasites, infection, food allergies, and probably other stuff that I'm forgetting. So just reducing the fat, doesn't take into account what got the pancreas to that spot in the first place.

If raw is the goal, it might work, but I would start with cooked, and gradually cook things less.


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## jfisher (Dec 29, 2005)

Lisa,

It's exactly the same with humans as far as the many various things that can cause it. After long term alcohol use and gallstones, the most common causes, they have to start looking for the many random more obscure ones. It's been five years for me and I'm still in that unknown category. Since they can't "cure" it, if they don't know what's causing it, unfortunately they can only treat the symptoms as you go.

Oh, and I do agree with you about the raw diet in general. If it's attempted and found not to be compatible with the dog, for whatever reason, best not to push it.

-Jackie


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I guess my point was that many vets say that the cause is the fat in the diet, when, in reality, most of the time that's just an end result and these vets are missing the point. As you note, it's much more complex than that. So, when putting a raw diet together, to note that it is just about controlling the fat, might end up giving the OP a false sense of safety.

samralf -- antioxidants are very important in pancreatitis problems -- it's worth googling: antioxidants pancreatitis


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