# Kibble vs. Homemade vs. Raw



## Liulfr (Nov 10, 2015)

With my first two dogs (Lab and Great Dane), I fed the typical large breed puppy chow. With my American Bulldog, I did a lot more research and had him on a raw diet for about 6 months because of skin issues. And then we switched him to TOTW. 

It's been about 7 years since we've had a dog and the options for raw diets have really changed a lot in that time. I'd like to consider feeding raw or homemade food to my new pup, but of course kibble is convenient and probably cheaper. The cost really isn't a huge factor, though. I know that money spent on nutrition is money saved at the vet. 

So, for those of you who have experience with all of the above, can I get some recommendations for commercial raw food brands? Or resources for home cooking dog food? I'd like to start off with prepared food to make sure his diet is well balanced while I try to dig up all my old raw sources.

(The kibble brands I'd likely be feeding are TOTW, Blue Buffalo, or Solid Gold. If you have better suggestions, please share!)


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## Liulfr (Nov 10, 2015)

Anyone?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

How about something in-between like The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food and adding some raw or cooked meat?

*THE HONEST KITCHEN DEHYDRATED FOOD: *EMBARK: Embark - Grain Free, High Protein Dog Food | The Honest Kitchen Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen and LOVE are for pups! 



It is the *ONLY* pet food in the USA that the FDA legally allows to use the words "Human Ingredients" on their packaging and advertising!



A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you end up feeding more of this than you would kibble.


Moms


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Commercial raw options will vary depending on your location. Most large-chain pet stores will carry some raw food (ex. Nature's Variety), but it is not economical for a GSD.

My area has two large local~ish suppliers of commercial raw dog food.
1. HOME - Surrey Meat Packers | Raw Diet Dog Food in Vancouver and,
2. Untitled Document

Other brands that have raw options around here: 3P Naturals, Amore, Jake & Daisey's, Natural Instincts, Red Dog Blue Kat.

Many people simply go to the butcher, buy whatever meat/organs/bones they want, and prepare meals from that.

The Honest Kitchen option above is interesting. I've seen that locally, dismissed it due to price concerns, as I didn't realize 10lbs makes ~35lbs of food. Still quite pricy, but not as bad as I thought. Not a huge fan of the potato content, though.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

I've been happy with Primal raw beef products for my dog. They source antibiotic-free and hormone-free meat. 

My dog doesn't love THK's dehydrated meat options, but he loves THK's Preference base mix with added fresh meat. To get him to eat the THK LOVE (which contains dehydrated beef), I had to add fresh ground beef to it. Kind of defeats the purpose - LOL. He loves the Preference with raw or cooked beef, and he's never been healthier.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Magwart said:


> I've been happy with Primal raw beef products for my dog.


What does that run you per month per dog? 

One store I found lists 6lbs of beef patties for $42. That's probably 2-3 days worth of food.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Magwart said:


> My dog doesn't love THK's dehydrated meat options, but he loves THK's Preference base mix with added fresh meat. To get him to eat the THK LOVE (which contains dehydrated beef), I had to add fresh ground beef to it. Kind of defeats the purpose - LOL. He loves the Preference with raw or cooked beef, and he's never been healthier.


The "Base" mixes are only for adults and seniors. Liulfr has a new puppy! 

Raw Foods:
*Bravo:* Discover Balance Raw Diet | Beef Frozen Raw Dog Food Diet - Bravo Pet Food Find a store: Find a Bravo Retailer - Bravo Pet Food 
*Northwest Naturals: *Beef Find a store: Store Locator
*Primal: *Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Beef Formula Find a store: Primal Pet Foods: Store Locator

Kibbles:
*ORIJEN*: Puppy Large | Orijen locator: Where to Buy | Orijen 

*ACANA REGIONALS (grain free):* Acana Regionals | Acana Store locator: Store Locator | Acana
*
FROMM'S FOUR STAR (grain free): *Four-Star Gourmet Recipes for dogs - Fromm Family Foods locator: Find a store that carries Fromm

*Nature's Variety* (not Nature's Recipe) Instinct Healthy, Natural Kibble Products for Dogs | Instinct Pet Food for Dogs and Cats 
Store locator: Find A Store | Nature's Variety

Moms


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## Liulfr (Nov 10, 2015)

Thanks for all the links! This has been incredibly helpful. It looks like the frozen options are reasonably affordable while he's a puppy. And that will give me time to get a plan together for preparing his food myself full time.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

yuriy said:


> What does that run you per month per dog?
> 
> One store I found lists 6lbs of beef patties for $42. That's probably 2-3 days worth of food.


Call the store owner and ask if he can cut you a deal if you buy by the case -- then make some room in the freezer. That sometimes allows them to pass on some savings to you.

I'm not sure about the patties. The Primal Grind comes in a 5# frozen chub that costs me around $22. I think the one that's the complete diet might cost a little more, but not a lot more. I think I've seen it in the freezer in my shop for under $30. I'll check when I'm there later this week. 

Primal Grinds is just beef heart, organs, and ground bone -- it is not labeled as a complete diet and is not suitable for a puppy, but it's a lovely mix otherwise, esp. with a base-mix. For me, the Primal is mostly about convenience, because the butcher who could make a raw beef mix cheaper for me is an hour away and not open on weekends...so it's hard to get there.

A cheaper option than Primal is a brand called Vital Essentials. It runs about 20-25% less in price, but the beef is standard commercial beef. It's interesting though because it includes some green tripe in the mix:
http://www.vitalessentialsraw.com/#!frozen-chubs/c1y40

OP, here's the Primal link (it's labeled as an "all life stages" complete food):
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/product/list/c/7


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

And one other company to look into -- Bravo -- they also have an "all life stages" frozen raw formula:
http://www.bravopetfoods.com/dog_frozen_balance.htm

I think there are several people around the forum that feed Bravo. I haven't seen it for sale locally, but it seems to have a loyal following.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Magwart said:


> Call the store owner and ask if he can cut you a deal if you buy by the case -- then make some room in the freezer. That sometimes allows them to pass on some savings to you.
> 
> I'm not sure about the patties. The Primal Grind comes in a 5# frozen chub that costs me around $22. I think the one that's the complete diet might cost a little more, but not a lot more. I think I've seen it in the freezer in my shop for under $30. I'll check when I'm there later this week.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. The store I mentioned was an online one - based in the US. I'll have to see if anyone local carries this.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

yuriy said:


> Thanks for the info. The store I mentioned was an online one - based in the US. I'll have to see if anyone local carries this.


Not sure how Canadian distribution works, but in the U.S., independent shops can get it easily from their distributors. My local shop where our vacation home is always has it, and introduced me to it (and to Vital Essentials). My local independent shop at home doesn't carry it, but he special orders for me (and is the one who told me about the case-price break). The price is consistent in both places, and they're 1200 miles apart. Getting it delivered to the store by the distributor, with their regular weekly delivery to the store, will save you a lot of money on shipping. The stores should be thrilled to do this, since it's an easy sale.


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## Liulfr (Nov 10, 2015)

I saw on Vital Essentials website they recommend mixing kibble with their food. Isn't that frowned upon?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Watch for recalls. Vital Essentials, Bravo, and Stella and Chewys just had recent recalls.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have been fine with the Farmina very much as a kibble but whole dog journal pointed out something that has concerned me for a bit with any dog food and, actually, I am starting to bag and freeze on receipt. What i have observed is that over the month a dog food bag is open it begins to actually develop a rancid smell. They all deny this but this kind of supports the argument.

Fats' Chance - Whole Dog Journal Article


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I have been fine with the Farmina very much as a kibble but whole dog journal pointed out something that has concerned me for a bit with any dog food and, actually, I am starting to bag and freeze on receipt. What i have observed is that over the month a dog food bag is open it begins to actually develop a rancid smell. They all deny this but this kind of supports the argument.
> 
> Fats' Chance - Whole Dog Journal Article


Will a bag for two dogs last more then a month? There is 120 cups in a bag and 4-6 cups a day should put you under a month for a bag.


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## Liulfr (Nov 10, 2015)

jocoyn said:


> I have been fine with the Farmina very much as a kibble but whole dog journal pointed out something that has concerned me for a bit with any dog food and, actually, I am starting to bag and freeze on receipt. What i have observed is that over the month a dog food bag is open it begins to actually develop a rancid smell. They all deny this but this kind of supports the argument.
> 
> Fats' Chance - Whole Dog Journal Article



Your dog has no issues with the frozen food?

Man. I'm even more confused than I was a decade ago trying to figure or what to feed my bully boy. =/


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you want to home cook for a puppy, one option is to consult with Monica Segal: Puppy Consultation 

It's not inexpensive, but she'll customize a balanced recipe for your puppy and keep updating it for 12 months. She's got a pretty good reputation:
A Review of the Best Books on Home-Prepared Dog Food Diets on the Market - Whole Dog Journal Article

Unfortunately, Balance It, a vet-supervised home-cooked recipe service created by a Ph.D vet nutritionist affiliated with UC Davis, doesn't have recipes for large-breed puppies.


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## techinstructor (Nov 15, 2014)

When my last GSD, Grendel, was a pup, we decided to feed him homemade food. It was wonderful for him, but a PITA to fix. The food was a mix of beef, salmon, brown rice, peas and carrots. At the time (in 2007-09) I was able to buy beef (round roast) on sale for as low as $2.99/lb (unfortunately, you won't find that price today). According to my best calculations the food cost us about $4.70/day to feed my male pup. He thrived on it and his coat was so glossy and shiny that people asked what I fed him. We stopped making the food in '09 when other duties demanded our time. I had a hard time finding a commercial food that I thought was good enough and one that he liked; there are more options now than then. 

I really wish I could make this food again and feed to to my current pup but alas, I don't have the time or the facilities to do it now. 

If anyone is interested my recipe, details about making the food can be found at: Doggy Meat Loaf

The only negative to this food, other than the time it takes to make it is that it really doesn't smell very good when it is baking. However, the dog thought it smelled and tasted wonderful. 

I did not consult a nutritionist so it was my best guesstimate as to whether or not this food provided the right nutrients. I hoped that by leaving the bones in the salmon that he would get enough calcium but I admit that it was not a scientific determination. That said, I can attest that Grendel grew up healthy and strong on this food and had no hip or joint problems. He was quite strong and healthy and ran every day.

Here is Grendel at 5 mos: 








And here he is at 22 mos: (sorry for the blurry photos)















(I refer to Grendel as my last GSD because he developed cancer just prior to turning 7 and died last August. I still miss him terribly.)


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