# Breeder Recommendation and Type?



## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

Hi everyone! 

I'm new here but been lurking for quite some time! I definitely learned a lot by reading on this forum. I live in NJ and I'm interested in recommendations around the area or outside, i'm willing to travel. 

I've been looking at 2 breeders in particular. Jagermeister German Shepherds in New Egypt, NJ and Blackthorn Kennel in Virginia. I've been doing my research and i admit, i still scratch my head reading all the bloodlines and types of GS. For example, western line, Czech(favorite because of coat), eastern lines, show lines. I love this breed, always wanted one since I was little. I'm looking for a GS who has great temperament, good around people, a protector, and a companion. I know that socialization is key and i intend on doing my part. I've been educating my wife on dogs since she never had one but i grew up with dogs.

Anybody have other recommendations or suggestions on what type of german shepherd i should lean on more? 

Thanks for the help in advance!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Both of those kennels are breeding working lines. I haven't looked at the pedigrees of the breeding dogs to see in they are West German, Czech, or a combination, but for your purposes, it won't matter. What is important is to find a knowledgeable, ethical breeder that can match you up with the right puppy. 

I'm not familiar with the first kennel you mentioned, but I can see you have been doing your research, and are focusing in on breeders that train and title their dogs. Christine, the owner of Blackthorn, used to be an active member here. As a rule I won't recommend breeders or kennels that I have no personal experience with, but it was obvious from her participation on here that she is very ethical, knowledgeable, and highly respected breeder, so thumbs up for Blackthorn. 

If I were you, I would contact both kennels, introduce yourself, say why you chose them as a possible kennel to get a puppy from, and start a dialogue. Be honest with your experience level and expectations: the more the breeder knows about you and your family, the better they can match you with a puppy. 

I always tell newbies to ask for references, contact people that have dogs form the breeders you are considering, ask how every-day life with the dog is like. It is one thing to see a well-trained dog going through an obedience and protection routine, and another thing to have to live with that dog.


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

Castlemaid said:


> Both of those kennels are breeding working lines. I haven't looked at the pedigrees of the breeding dogs to see in they are West German, Czech, or a combination, but for your purposes, it won't matter. What is important is to find a knowledgeable, ethical breeder that can match you up with the right puppy.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the first kennel you mentioned, but I can see you have been doing your research, and are focusing in on breeders that train and title their dogs. Christine, the owner of Blackthorn, used to be an active member here. As a rule I won't recommend breeders or kennels that I have no personal experience with, but it was obvious from her participation on here that she is very ethical, knowledgeable, and highly respected breeder, so thumbs up for Blackthorn.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I wasn't sure how to approach messaging the breeders, so that is a good start. This will be my first GSD and i am a little nervous when i go into the "Aggression Section" but i am reassured that going to a reputable breeder and following socialization guidelines and rules, that our dog will be what we make him to be. Appreciate the response! :smile2:


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Knowing the lines both use, I believe that the pups Blackthorn is producing will fit your level of experience and life better of these two...you will also get breeder support and be able to interact on social media with other owners of pups from the kennel as desired or needed


Lee


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

wolfstraum said:


> Knowing the lines both use, I believe that the pups Blackthorn is producing will fit your level of experience and life better of these two...you will also get breeder support and be able to interact on social media with other owners of pups from the kennel as desired or needed
> 
> Lee


Thanks Lee, just wondering do you have experience with Black thorn? Or anyone in this forum? I did message Christine just now and gave her a little background and what we are looking for in a dog.


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

wolfstraum said:


> Knowing the lines both use, I believe that the pups Blackthorn is producing will fit your level of experience and life better of these two...you will also get breeder support and be able to interact on social media with other owners of pups from the kennel as desired or needed
> 
> 
> Lee


Thanks Lee, do you have experience with Black Thorn? Or anyone in this forum?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Good luck in your search, and welcome to the forum from another NJ member! Planning on doing any formal training?


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

CometDog said:


> Good luck in your search, and welcome to the forum from another NJ member! Planning on doing any formal training?


Thank you fellow NJer! That would be my next question, I've been reading so many things on this forum about socialization and how some people don't socialize their dogs but expose them to new surroundings, etc etc. I've mentioned Jagermeister K9 here in NJ due to the reviews they have. They do have training at their facility for pups over 5 months. The training course i would be interested in for my pup would be: 

"Private one on one Basic Obedience (5 months and up)
10 Basic Obedience/Behavioral Modification Course
This program was designed to educate the owner and then the dog the skills of elementary obedience. This course welcomes puppies from age 5 months and up. The one on one training course is a 10 lesson program. You will learn how to teach your dog basic commands and how to solve behavior problems such as excessive barking, unwanted jumping and aggression to other dogs. 
The commands that are included in the private one on one course are:
HEEL: teaching your dog to walk calmly by your side without "pulling".
SIT: your dog will learn to sit on command and to remain in the sitting position until the owner gives the OK command.
DOWN: to lay down on command and stay until the OK command.
STAY: this command can be given from either the sit position or the down position and it signifies to the dog that the handler is walking away and that he must remain where he is until the owner gives the OK command.
COME: your dog will learn to come directly to you and sit when he is called. This is the only exercise in the basic obedience course taught off-leash.
Curriculum includes:
10 private one on one course
Life time follow up discounted refresher lessons
K-9 certificate of graduation"

I don't mind spending money on my dog to learn how to behave and also it would teach me since my wife and i would be first time owners. What did you do?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I have a trainer from Long Island and I either travel to him or he comes here and I pay travel expenses. Main reason I am going far and afield is his great reputation, but the main reason is he has worked with my dog's sire, and is friends with the breeder. 

Are you Central NJ near Carlos? If so go that way, he has a great reputation I'm up in Bergen Co. Beth Bradley has good classes in Hawthorne.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Most basic obedience classes are very similar in what they teach. What differentiates one obedience school from another is the method and training knowledge used by the instructor. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer and offer training, but some have vast and deep dog training knowledge and experience, and others are just pet trainers that can show you how to get your dog to sit. 

Look for someone that has varied experience with different breeds and has actively been involved in different dog sports and activities like formal obedience, agility, herding, Schutzhund/IPO, etc. For basics, training should be reward based (play and/or food), and fun for both owners and puppies. 

Ask if you can go and observe classes, without a dog. See if you can do this with a number of different trainers. Group classes are great to teach a puppy to work with you even among distractions, but some people learn more with the one-on-one approach. Basically, you are the one being trained to train your puppy, so find a trainer that you are comfortable working with.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Oh and of your list up there...2 things I will mention, because they are mistakes I have made.

1) using OK as a release word. Think of how often you say OK to people when you are not releasing the dog.

2) Using No. I have 3 kids. I kind of say NO a lot lol. I'll ask the dog to do something and he is doing it, then I'll yell NO at my 6 year old as he is about to do something lol Then I'm like no, not YOU...I meant YOU, then I say like 5 names before I get it right. So I say "phooey" to the dog. Being from Northern NJ it is extremely rare I'd ever say that otherwise, as it would have gotten me beat up when young lol


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

Ohh, i'm in Morris Co. cool! Hawthorne is only about 30-40 min away from me. I'm going to take a look. Thanks!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Christine (Blackthorn) has a very good feel and understanding of her dogs and the lines she uses. She knows how to place dogs in to the right homes too. I would definitely contact her.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Marbreezy said:


> Thanks Lee, just wondering do you have experience with Black thorn? Or anyone in this forum? I did message Christine just now and gave her a little background and what we are looking for in a dog.


I am familiar with the lines, accomplishments and goals of both kennels.....have met both owners.....am active in IPO and breeding as well...



Lee


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## Synne (Mar 17, 2018)

I like this. Great advice CometDog!


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

You might want to talk to Lee aka Wolfstraum. She just have a litter last week, and there might be a pup or two available to the right homes. She is located in western PA.

I have breed to the female's brother a couple times and got some really nice pups. This next litter I am finally keeping my pick puppy to train and title. It's certainly worth checking in to.


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

mnm said:


> You might want to talk to Lee aka Wolfstraum. She just have a litter last week, and there might be a pup or two available to the right homes. She is located in western PA.
> 
> I have breed to the female's brother a couple times and got some really nice pups. This next litter I am finally keeping my pick puppy to train and title. It's certainly worth checking in to.


Hi Marsha! It's marina!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Marbreezy said:


> Thank you! I wasn't sure how to approach messaging the breeders, so that is a good start. This will be my first GSD and i am a little nervous when i go into the "Aggression Section" but i am reassured that going to a reputable breeder and following socialization guidelines and rules, that our dog will be what we make him to be. Appreciate the response! :smile2:


before you select a breeder , immerse yourself with contact with the breed, all sorts of the different types - American Show, West German Show , Working/Sport which can include
DDR or Czech or any smart planned combination of each .

you seem intimidated by some aspects of the breed -- you said
"This will be my first GSD and i am a little nervous when i go into the "Aggression Section" but i am reassured that going to a reputable breeder and following socialization guidelines and rules, that our dog will be what we make him to be. "

make sure it is what you want before you committ . Take your time.

the dog will be , not what you make him to be , because he does come with traits ,
potentials, and limits right from birth. Your part is to appreciate and bring out what
is good . 
If it in not there - you can not make it be there . Not for a novice , and even for an
experienced person it will be a management project for all the dog's days.

this is a bit of a worry -- you said 
", Czech(favorite because of coat), "

Do not , select any group or dog because of some superficial aspect -- COAT on a Czech dog for example .

the breeders that you have mentioned are good and I would definitely include Lee, ms wolfstraum 
especially if you are looking for socially correct , balanced dogs.
I have no personal experience with her dogs but I do have personal experience with the genetics as I use many of the same dogs i.


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

carmspack said:


> before you select a breeder , immerse yourself with contact with the breed, all sorts of the different types - American Show, West German Show , Working/Sport which can include
> DDR or Czech or any smart planned combination of each .
> 
> you seem intimidated by some aspects of the breed -- you said
> ...


So true, as i started researching the breed more intensely, the wording here on my original post is confusing/worrisome. I have since learned so much that it's kind of embarrassing reading what i wrote.

I am not intimidated by this breed. I want my GSD to be an ambassador of the breed. Coat color means nothing to me now as temperament and balance is above all else. I cringe looking at the "Czech Dog" in my post, it is somewhat uneducated. Sometimes reading too much into negatives can give you doubts but that is where finding a reputable breeder comes in play. After speaking to Marsha and progeny owners of Komet v Wolfstraum and Ebene v Kindheitstraum, recommendation by Ms. Lee. I am looking forward to training my pup and seeing what path we will take as we grow. Thanks for the input!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks right back at you !

are you getting a pup from ms Wolfstraum? If so lucky you . I like this letter . Very much.


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

carmspack said:


> thanks right back at you !
> 
> are you getting a pup from ms Wolfstraum? If so lucky you . I like this letter . Very much.


I will be getting a Komet von Wolfstraum x Ebene von Kindheitstraum pup from Marshas Kennel von Traumwolfen. Spoke to many owners of this progeny and all had nothing but good things to say. Marsha has been great too, open communication, knowledgeable and updates when she can  Litter is due June 1st. It will be a late birthday present for me


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Congrats! I have a Komet son from Lee's 'O' litter and couldn't be happier with him.


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm getting a puppy from this litter as well!


Marbreezy said:


> I will be getting a Komet von Wolfstraum x Ebene von Kindheitstraum pup from Marshas Kennel von Traumwolfen. Spoke to many owners of this progeny and all had nothing but good things to say. Marsha has been great too, open communication, knowledgeable and updates when she can  Litter is due June 1st. It will be a late birthday present for me


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

^ oh man... we won’t be able to tell you guys apart!


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

Fodder said:


> ^ oh man... we won’t be able to tell you guys apart!


I know I laughed at the similar names!


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

Mareesey said:


> I'm getting a puppy from this litter as well!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


LOL! I had to do a double take at our names! Great names think alike. :laugh: Congrats! What do you plan on doing with him/her?


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## Mareesey (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm getting a working quality female pup so I'd like to do nosework (she might have other plans). I want to look into agility and rally so I'll be going to some events (when I have a chance to look some up). I'm not sure what my ultimate goal is but I think the training and working with her will be so much fun. Ultimately I think the dog dictates what you do, because if they don't like it then you change your plan.

What do you plan on doing with your pup?


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Fodder said:


> ^ oh man... we won’t be able to tell you guys apart!


I am so glad somebody said this. I thought they had to be related!


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## Marbreezy (Feb 22, 2018)

Mareesey said:


> I'm getting a working quality female pup so I'd like to do nosework (she might have other plans). I want to look into agility and rally so I'll be going to some events (when I have a chance to look some up). I'm not sure what my ultimate goal is but I think the training and working with her will be so much fun. Ultimately I think the dog dictates what you do, because if they don't like it then you change your plan.
> 
> What do you plan on doing with your pup?


I'm not sure! Lol I'll be taking him to a good trainer in my area. I'm sure she'll be able to guide me in the right direction but first things, first star puppy/CGC. I have an interest in rally or agility but we'll see! 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Fodder said:


> ^ oh man... we won’t be able to tell you guys apart!


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