# Kennel Info- Tom z Pohranicni straze Line



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Hello, Ran across this kennel, fairly close to our area & was just curious if anyone has heard of them, have a dog from them, etc? Any suggestion on lines?

If a dog from them, please share if too much drive (crazy, intense, gotta go, go, go 24/7) or if you were or are happy? How are temps? Any issues?

~Thanks~



RoseHavenkKennel.com


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I am currently looking into a Czech/DDR with a smidge of WG breeding. I have been doing A LOT of research on the Czech lines... there are a few threads I started with a TONE of information.. I'll try to link them here.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Here are some threads that have information with these lines:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...11-pohranicni-straze-czech-border-patrol.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-training/150066-late-bloomer.html


http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ove-some-opinions-advice-experiences-etc.html


**Also, try searching the site too, LOTS of threads and GREAT information.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I am currently looking into a Czech/DDR with a smidge of WG breeding. I have been doing A LOT of research on the Czech lines... there are a few threads I started with a TONE of information.. I'll try to link them here.


Ok thanks. 

I'm not sure on the lines, when it come to DDR/Czech ~ West vs East, etc. I kind have read a bit & been told alittle to get an idea. Seems each person has a diff opinion on the WL's.

Just thinking of a future agility dog. Would like nice drive & a good passive (not dominate/pushy) temp. Just unsure on lines? Thinking DDR might be to heavy bodied for the sport & the Czech dogs seems more sleek, smaller build. 

I just know, need good drive for agility, but not up for a crazy, can't settle, bite at ya when working drive. :crazy:

Two of our dogs now (WL), I feel maybe have med drive compared to some BC like GSD I have seen run agility. Seems our bk male focuses way better & really gets into work mod when working him. Our female, well she works & loves agility, but her focus lacks.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Do they actually own Tom or are they just saying "this is who their dogs are linebred on?" I don't thihnk it's very clear on their website.

They don't have the pedigrees up of any of their dogs, but that statement implies to me that ALL their dogs are linebred on Tom? I would question why they are doing that if that is the case. Most breeders want some kind of diversity in their program, not all doing back to the same dog.

They also misspell Tom's name ("Tom Prohencia Straze") under their female page every single time.

But a cursory glance and wondering about those things is as far as I've gotten. Just food for thought and I'd reserach carefully from there.

ETA: I did go onto pedigree database real quick. I don't see the pedigrees for 3 of their dogs (3 females, 1 male). It does indeed appear that every one of their dogs is either linebred or has Tom at least once in the pedigree. Perhaps one of the experts can chime in, but I've never seen this before (of course it's almost impossible in WG lines to get away from Fero, but as a general rule of thumb) and it seems quite strange that they would not want some kind of complementary breeding to occur and diversity in their genetics.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

You probably think what your goals are in agility. Are you looking to go to Nationals? compete locally? I think DDR dogs are generally a nice medium on most fronts.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

if I were looking for a specific type of dog to do agility with, my personal preference is a longer leg, sleeker body type (when it comes to gsd's). 

I would look for breeders who are doing agility and doing it well, kiahaus comes to mind, MRL here on the board has a couple of dogs from Chris WIld (also on the board), tho I'm not doing agility with my girl, she came from kleinenhain who does agility with her dogs..I'm sure there are more I'm definately missing.

Go to breeders who are producing /doing what you want to do with your future pup


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

I had trouble gettinhg dogs to come up on PDB also, but played with it & got them to.

Agility, na, just plan on competing local, who knows where we would end up if a good dog, but have no plans on nationals or anything.  Just not sure what I should seek WL wise?

Anyone know what lines Wildhaus are? I didn't seem to see it stated on their site.

I have heard pros/cons to Czech dogs, but seems most of your WL dogs are just that & to me, they seem like your sleeker build type of dogs. 

Thanks for replys & when it comes to breeding, how do it, lines to use, which lines are good, etc, have know clue. Trying to learn though.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

GSDElsa said:


> Do they actually own Tom or are they just saying "this is who their dogs are linebred on?" I don't thihnk it's very clear on their website.


 
Under males, does state info under Tom.  I was also told this dog had just died & lived to be 16? That's a plus to the bloodline IMO.

BTW, I'm in no means searching for a dog with big bada** pedigree, not breeding, just looking for right build for sport, good (sweet) temp, & willing to work, play, have fun, not tire easy, good focus, etc 

BC drive, too over the top for this gal........................


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Anyone know what lines Wildhaus are?


Mostly West German, with a bit of DDR a few generations back. Occasionally crossed to Czech lines with some litters, and have a 1/2 Czech, 1/2 WGR youngster who will hopefully join the breeding ranks in the future.


As for the kennel mentioned, I know nothing about them. Though have to admit being skeptical about a breeder of "working German Shephard's Dog". They didn't own Tom zPS, and that is a bit misleading on their website unless you read the blurb that says he is just who some of their dogs are linebred on.

As far as Tom, he is behind many of the best Czech lines. Our new addition's dam is linebred 4-2 on Tom. So far with Jazz, there isn't anything not to like. Very good drives, but excellent off switch (surprisingly so for her age actually), very hard, exceptional nerve, not too independent, not too people focused, directable but at the same time with a bit of stubborn streak and desire for mischief. Excellent focus and desire to work. At only 5 months old there is only so much that can be seen yet, but so far so good. This is my only really significant first hand experience with Tom lines though.

For more info on Tom lines, contact Cliff. He has tremendous wealth of knowledge on these lines, including having owned a Tom daughter and currently owning an older full sibling to our Jazz.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> Hello, Ran across this kennel, fairly close to our area & was just curious if anyone has heard of them, have a dog from them, etc? Any suggestion on lines?
> 
> If a dog from them, please share if too much drive (crazy, intense, gotta go, go, go 24/7) or if you were or are happy? How are temps? Any issues?
> 
> ...


Some nice looking dogs. Wish the pedigrees were on the site so you could actually see them. Wish that *any* of them had more of a title other than "In training for BH and Sch1-3." Also no hip xrays listed on any of the dogs. Doesn't mean they've not been done, but it's a question to ask.

But, most of what you describe in your following posts sound like a good working-line GSD--from almost any working bloodlines. Well, perhaps not the "top sport" bloodlines--they might have more reactivity and activity levels than it sounds like you want--so you might not want to limit yourself to Czech bloodlines.  

Christine


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> As for the kennel mentioned, I know nothing about them. Though have to admit being skeptical about a breeder of "working German Shephard's Dog".


Also spelled Shepard on the header of their page....I'm shocked it took 10 replies for someone to notice that, because I was just floored within seconds of being on their site that they couldn't even spell the breed they were selling.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Rerun said:


> Also spelled Shepard on the header of their page....I'm shocked it took 10 replies for someone to notice that, because I was just floored within seconds of being on their site that they couldn't even spell the breed they were selling.


Thanks for the replies so far all. Keep them coming. Ok, yes, spelling things wrong isn't the end of the world though & shouldn't need to knock someone for that. TG for spell ck & I know I commonly make spelling mistakes..........  Granted, I would think you would want your website flawless, but hey..........

On x-rays, I was told, don't OFA, but does v ratings. This is a German system of x-rays ?

You can view pedigree of all dogs, but need to copy & paste them to PDB. The database is funky, because you have to take certain things out of name to get it to show up.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Price is very reasonable. One thing I noticed that struck me as odd- every dog is _in training_ for BH Sch1-3. While I wouldn't consider that too odd on maybe some of the younger dogs...Every dog? Title it already if you're actually working on it. They are also trainers for their SchH club? My mind goes to hobbyist.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I agree on spelling not being everything. But this isn't a case of accidentally hitting the wrong key or transposing letters. If one knows how to spell the breed's name, "Shepard" doesn't come out accidentally. And I really think someone breeding it ought to know how to spell it. Sure, maybe the website was put together by someone who didn't know and didn't bother to look it up, but if the case that it something that should have jumped out at the owner and gotten fixed in a hurry. 

I also agree the "in training" thing on every single dog is puzzling.

Also, "v" is a German conformation title, not a hip rating. So them saying they don't OFA, they do "v ratings" not only makes no sense, unless the question or answer was completely misunderstood it shows total ignorance of the German SV hip rating system.

Basically a lot there that makes me question the knowledge of the breeder. But maybe they, and their web designer, are just bad at conveying that. Either way it doesn't change the genetics of the dogs and all that said, the dogs themselves look pretty nice and prices are reasonable. Best thing to do would be to go meet them in person. And also ask yourself what you want out of a breeder. If just a good puppy, this could be a good option. If someone knowledgeable to provide guidance and support, maybe not.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> *I agree on spelling not being everything. But this isn't a case of accidentally hitting the wrong key or transposing letters. If one knows how to spell the breed's name, "Shepard" doesn't come out accidentally. And I really think someone breeding it ought to know how to spell it.* Sure, maybe the website was put together by someone who didn't know and didn't bother to look it up, but if the case that it something that should have jumped out at the owner and gotten fixed in a hurry.
> 
> I also agree the "in training" thing on every single dog is puzzling.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

LuvourGSDs said:


> On x-rays, I was told, don't OFA, but does v ratings. This is a German system of x-rays ?
> 
> You can view pedigree of all dogs, but need to copy & paste them to PDB. The database is funky, because you have to take certain things out of name to get it to show up.



"v ratings" on hips? No such thing. There's "a" stamps/ratings. 

If you can't view pedigrees without removing parts of the name.... uhhh. So, basically, they're not using the dogs' actual names on the site? That's not the PDB database being funky--that's someone using two different sets of names for the same dog.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

you can not get a V rating in a show unless working titled......


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks Chris & all for your opinions, why I posted. 

I agree, funky mistake with spelling with Shepherd.  Could be a web person involved that has know clue about dogs, who knows. What was import to me, was to have you all see the look & lines of these dogs. 

Wasn't sure after someone pointed out on here about all 4 females being Tom's offspring, should there be more mixture or does that matter? 

Also I did talk via phone with her & SO much we went over & not sure I have it right with the x-ray thing. If you choose not to OFA, then a German way & what is that? I do know she said, did that way & didn't OFA. Prob my mistake, because, did talk over me on somethings, because , have no clue on breeding or dealing with German methods, titles, etc. I am not sure what all the German titles are on the dogs pedigree other than SCH1, 2, & 3. So many dogs on the PDB I have looked at & have not a clue what this or that is, just AKC titles (and not all of them by far). 

I agree, when time allows, will go visit, was recommended by her & welcomed to do so. That's foremost important to me, like to see adults, their temps, condition, etc. She seemed nice & very knowledgable about the breed. Ask me right off, what I'm looking for in a dog, drives, temps, etc? Seemed she could help place a pup with me when wanting do. 

Thanks all again & will continue to watch this thread. I know not all people are perfect & what one breeder does another might see wrong in their eyes, but we all do things different. 

~Thanks~


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Jiri Novotny did not own Tom z PS. The other info about Tom is basically correct. Tom was a tremendous producer of "good nerve strength". His level of drives often varied with the dams that were used with him, but the nerve remained constant. His father Cordon was known for producing many many police dogs and especially gave good fight drive to his progeny. Tom's mother was owned and handled by a good friend of mine and was an exceptional dog in working. She went back to the legendary Kaso z PS who was known for the quality of females that he produced.


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## zatarra2010 (Jan 13, 2011)

*troubled breeder*

I recently sent an email to a certain breeder, mentioning that it would be good for them to correct a few spelling issues. It was actually a friendly explanation stating ,"how I would hate that some potential customer might not give you the opportunity for their business, based on some small oversight like a misspelling". My hope was to help them represent themselves accurately.

I received back a very rude and insulting nasty email. So rude I couldnt post it here. They did however correct the spelling of German Shepherd...

If a breeder treats humans this way, how would they treat their animals? Id have to think twice on that.


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