# Obedience Trials Questions



## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

Okay, so I feel like a bloody moron. I met up with the trainer from PetCo today who we are doing our CGC through. She is a wonderful woman who trains/shows/breeds Rotties. When I told her I was interested in not only CGC, but maybe a few other working/obedience titles, she got very excited.

Long story short, she's willing to work with me outside of the CGC classes on preparing for them, but she asked me what I wanted to do. When I told her I had no clue, she said to research the trials I wanted to work on and then go from there.

So, I'm opening the floor to suggestions. I would like Finn to be able to have the UDX after his name, but I am really liking the TDU and other tracking competitions.

He is definately more comfortable when it comes to tracking/trailing, but I'm sure that he would be fine in Obedience. 

Finn just turned 4. If he is as lucky as his parents, they didn't start slowing down until around 8 or 9. I've already made a personal promise to Finn that I'd 'retire' him at 8 as long as we aren't dealing with any joint issues before then.

As I said, any and all suggestions and advice will be gratefully taken.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

there's lots of things you could do, Rally is FUN, not alot of stress, kind of gives you an intro into say obedience if you want to go that route.

Tracking is also fun, Nosework classes if you can find them.

I'd start with www.akc.org site, look up what type of competition your interested in and you should find, the regs, the exercises that kind of thing.

I say, definitely take advantage of this womans expertise to help you . And heck you don't have to limit yourself to 'one' thing,,do it all


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I really don't want to do Obedience. I like the idea of being active and I think Finn does as well. When it comes to obedience things like long stays or downs, he's just not as responsive as he is when it comes to doing figure 8s or anything where he's allowed to move. I'm not going to put him through something he just doesn't seem to like.

I want my dog to have as many titles as yours do. 

What is Rally? I've heard about it, but don't know too much about it.

How long did it take you to train for some of your titles? Are there a lot that just flow into the other? The UD reqs seem like they would be a great starting point for TDU or any other Tracking/Trailing events. Besides, Finn is already doing SAR, so I would love to expound on that specific foundation.

What do some of the acronyms mean after your dogs' name?


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

Hi Shaolin. I happened to read this. I also like Rally. It's the most fun parts of obedience, without the long stays. My dog really enjoys it, and it's great for younger dogs with shorter attention spans. 

Here's a video example. 





 

A lot of the titles on Jakoda's dogs are agility, there's a herding title HIT, obedience CD, a temperament test TT, and some ASCA titles.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Rally is fun! You take the basic obedience skills and do them in a sequence set up by the judge, a course with markers, or cards. Its fun, quick moving, you can talk to and encourage your dog. Its a great starting point to just figure out how dog shows work! Go on you tube.com to look at videos of rally and of course, on the akc website as well.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Man, I hate rally. It's for people that can't do obedience. It's sort of the joke in the obedience world. If all you want to do is play around with your dog without having to do much real training, then that's the way to go. If you want to have a well trained dog that is reliable every day outside of training, then go for real obedience titles.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Man, I hate rally. It's for people that can't do obedience. It's sort of the joke in the obedience world. If all you want to do is play around with your dog without having to do much real training, then that's the way to go. If you want to have a well trained dog that is reliable every day outside of training, then go for real obedience titles.


Boy, I dont usually take offense, but that statement bothers me. Lots of folks like rally. People can have fun with their dogs and train their dogs in many different ways. If the "obedience world" is making jokes about the "rally world" then they have a problem. People are always at different levels in thier training, depending on their own life circumstances. Maybe they are to arthritic, maybe taking care of a sick elderly family member, busy with work, etc.. dont be so judgemental.
I enjoy Rally, my dog is well trained and reliable outside of everyday training. 

To the original poster, do things you enjoy and have fun with your dog. As much as folks would have you believe here on this forum, not everyone has a UDX and IPO title on thier dog.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Well here's the run down...you need a CD (novice level) to go onto a CDX (open level) and then a UD (Utility) and then UDX (qualifying in the open level and utility level at 10 shows). Skilled trainers can get a UD on their dog by the age of 3. But they start with their dog from day one with that goal. It gets more difficult to do it when you already have a dog that has some bad habits. Remember those bad habits cost you points in the ring and if you've been kind of lenient with straight sits, close heels, things of that nature it will be a little bit more work to retrain your dog properly.

There is also a new level called BN, I did that with my dog since I didn't know anything about trialing. It was a fun experience and really good for a young dog. He is now a little over 2, just got his CD and we will start trialing for CDX soon. I don't think he'll have his UD by 3, we might get there by 4 and then hopefully a UDX soon after. Remember when it comes to AKC obedience there are some exercises which if they get blown...you don't qualify at all, its not just a loss of points. From the shows I've seen...its a good day if 50% of dogs trialing in open and utility qualify.

Look up some youtube videos of AKC novice obedience, AKC open obedience, and utility as well (although it seems like you know what that one is already). Utility is quite difficult, its a great goal but I would start slow and see what the lower levels are about. There are a lot of dogs at my club that although the owner had dreams of UD, the dog just wasn't cut out for it and all it managed was a CD or maybe a CDX.

Your dog being 4...could definitely still do it, but like I said it will take a lot of work on your part. Many people don't get a UD on their dog in 4-5 years when they start training for competition from day one, much less when they have a grown dog already.


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

My dogs all have Obedience titles, as well as Rally titles. Some dogs don't enjoy the formality of Obedience, and let's be honest: Novice Obedience is B-0-R-I-N-G for a lot of dogs. Echo hates on-leash obedience, but she excels off leash. If she didn't have poor hips I'd be learning agility along with her. There's something for just about any dog and handler team, it's just a matter of finding what makes you both happy.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Elaine said:


> Man, I hate rally. It's for people that can't do obedience. *It's sort of the joke in the obedience world*. If all you want to do is play around with your dog without having to do much real training, then that's the way to go. If you want to have a well trained dog that is reliable every day outside of training, then go for real obedience titles.


Elaine, are you going through a rough time or something?

I have Rally titles and I have obedience titles. I am losing my hearing and for Rally, I don't need to hear. But evenso, I prefer Rally. 

The first dog I put through obedience, got a red and two white ribbons on her RN, and three blue ribbons for her CD, with NO EXTRA TRAINING. 

So, I just don't agree with you that Rally is a joke. 

I do agree that obedience people like you, (see bolded), tend to be snooty towards the Rally people, they make idiotic statements to them at shows, tell them to crate their perfectly behaved dogs, practice in front of the rally rings where dogs are working, rather than in front of their own obedience rings where they don't want to mess up the dogs. Their dogs run out of the rings, and attack dogs on the long sits or downs on occasion. And they say things about how bad the Rally dogs are. If you ask them a question about anything, like where they are in the judge, they look at you like you are a bit of poo on their shoe. 

The Rally people are fun and helpful to everyone, they are free with advice, and they, in generally are very accomodating when you need to go first or last so you can get your dog through the obedience ring at the same time. There is some fun competitiveness, but most are happy to get a green ribbon and the other colors are just a bonus. 

Obedience is a lot easier in some ways. It is always the same, the judge tells you what you are going to do and you listen for the pattern, but everything is really the same, in the same order. I have heard people who have done obedience for years, have trouble with Rally because it is different every time, and they have to go in order, etc. It is not hard if you do the walk through first, and the more times the better, but there are a lot more possibilities on what you might be facing in each leg. Where obedience will be exactly the same.

ETA: As for having a well-trained dog, all of my rally dogs, after getting their titles at about a year of age, I can do nothing with them for months, even years, Ninja -- no training for three years, and she was perfect when I took her out, her obedience was perfect, good with dogs, perfect at the vet, no problems. That is how they all are when I take them out. And I am not out there training ALL OF THEM, all the time. Training is what you put into it, not what you get for it.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

selzer said:


> Elaine, are you going through a rough time or something?
> 
> I have Rally titles and I have obedience titles. I am losing my hearing and for Rally, I don't need to hear. But evenso, I prefer Rally.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Sometimes it takes years to develope this kind of maturity in a person's thinking skills.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I have to say that the majority of rally dogs are not as obedient as you state...I have seen so many dogs in the RE level that walk away from owners and the owner has to repeat heel every second otherwise the dog will get lost in the ring. The issues you have listed are all due to handler error most likely...the reason your dog loses points in rally is because the handler tells it the wrong thing to do, not because the dog doesn't know what to do.

I'm titling in rally and its definitely fun but I will never agree that those dogs are better trained than obedience dogs. Unless that handler is also training for the obedience ring. I'm also talking about majority of dogs...of course there are some in there that are good. But I would bet that 99% of obedience dogs are of much higher level than rally dogs. Also in your example you say your dogs get taken out months/years later. Well guess what, they're older and more mature, you might not be officially working them, but you do train them day to day. A 5 year old dog is much easier to title in obedience than a 1 year old, they're just settled in their ways and everything isn't brand new to them so they don't need to say hello to everything in the building.

I have no issue with rally...I'm going to get my RE and stop. But I'm shocked when there are people in there that are on their 40+ RAE leg. Why not go on to something more challenging? Get other titles? I'll never complain though...at least those people are doing something with their dog and like you said they might have reasons why they can't do obedience or another sport so they focus on this one.

Rally is cool cause you don't have to have your dog 95% or better for the exercises and you could still qualify...so it makes it fun. Although I find it funny when people take dogs into the ring and they won't sit for them no matter how many times they say it (no one would bring a dog like that into an obedience ring) I've also seen a person bring a dog for a CD who wouldn't front and would just run away (they decided they'd take the chance). I think due to the higher risk of non-qualifying in obedience you get people that have dogs that are much more prepared, where as in rally people can generally do it with a pretty good dog (which is what it was meant for).


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

If you've done your CGC you should look into the Schutzhund BH, then you will be ready to do an AKC CD and CDX. Once you get your SchHBH you can then do the tracking titles (you can do the tracking only titles once you've got your BH). This will probably be a better way to get a tracking title. Around here they hold maybe 2 AKC tracking events every year and the process to enter is really convoluted so most of the time the AKC tracking trials get cancelled since people have a hard time fulfilling the preliminary requirements. There are 2 of us in our DVG club doing the tracking only titles at the moment.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Our GSD club put on an AKC obedience and rally trial this past weekend. It was tons of work, and a lot of fun. 

I was ring stewarding for Rally, and our judge was an absolute joy. There were several people with GSDs in Novice B, who had done obedience, but never rally. Every one of them qualified, and they ALL talked about how fun it was.

Of course there were also a few of the hardcore obedience people with several OTCh's under their belts at the trial. They wouldn't be caught dead in rally. Whatever. 

I haven't done either one. Years ago I trained my Dobe for a CD, but never competed. I show in conformation, but want to try my hand at obedience and yes, rally too. Am I going to just _sort_ of train my dog so I can doodle around the rally ring? No. I want a dog that is engaged with me, and will happily do what I ask. (I'm watching Michael Ellis' videos for about the millionth time this week...). If I'm going to compete in something, I want to do it well. I just recently discovered that I actually have a competitive streak, LOL.


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Shaolin said:


> I really don't want to do Obedience. I like the idea of being active and I think Finn does as well. When it comes to obedience things like long stays or downs, he's just not as responsive as he is when it comes to doing figure 8s or anything where he's allowed to move. I'm not going to put him through something he just doesn't seem to like.


But UDX IS obedience and that is at the top so there are a lot of lower level obedience you have to get through in order to get to the UDX point anyway. You'll have alot of years practicing obedience and trialing in obedience to get the UDX level - and you don't want to do obedience. 

I do Rally and Obedience. Next year I want to try to get a BH on Nyxie. We are 1 leg away from our RA and CD titles. I'm not sure if I am going to continue with her towards CDX or not. My younger Aussie is a drivier dog and I think she would be well suited to the higher levels of obedience more so than Nyxie is. 

There is Rally, Tracking, Flyball, Agility and Treibball (not sure how to spell that!) as well as Herding that you can look into with your dog. If you don't really like obedience that's cool, there are lots of other events that you can do with your dog. I would love to do Flyball, but no one in my area does it.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Come on, face it people, rally is the seriously dumbed down version of obedience and I wouldn't be caught dead doing it. It came about because people didn't want to spend the time to actually train their dogs to a decent level and this is what they came up with. When I see the level of training on the dogs in rally, I just shake my head and keep going. If they want to believe that rally titles actually mean they have a well trained dog, well, good for them. There's always the hope that rally people will discover that training their dog is fun and raise their standards.

Anyone that thinks obedience is boring is doing it wrong.

The OP was thinking about striving for a UDX which takes a lot of time and dedication and then people suggested rally?! Not even in the same category. That's like someone that wants to race in NASCAR and they buy a Ford Pinto. Two very different things.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

selzer said:


> Elaine, are you going through a rough time or something? *No*.
> 
> I have Rally titles and I have obedience titles. I am losing my hearing and for Rally, I don't need to hear. But evenso, I prefer Rally. *You don't need to hear in obedience either.*
> 
> ...


If you want to do rally, go for it, but it isn't obedience.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Elaine said:


> If you want to do rally, go for it, but it isn't obedience.


Elaine, I am glad you aren't going through a bad time or anything.

You do need to hear the judge tell you to go forward, turn left or right, go slow, go fast, about turn, halt. I have trouble hearing in the IX center in Cleveland -- one of the shows I choose to go to. So, you are in fact, wrong. 

You are also wrong about Rally. 

But I am glad you wouldn't be caught dead doing Rally. I don't think you would fit in.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Elaine said:


> Come on, face it people, rally is the seriously dumbed down version of obedience and I wouldn't be caught dead doing it. It came about because people didn't want to spend the time to actually train their dogs to a decent level and this is what they came up with.


huh. I don't think there are too many people here who have more obedience experience than I do, and I DO take dogs into rally. Like anything else, it's what you make of it. I like doing a bit of rally because it's a way to introduce a young dog to performance events, and it's a great way to see how your training is going. but I agree that it's not particularly competitive. If you have a dog that is actually trained and you can follow the course without getting lost, then you have a VERY good chance of getting a placement. There seem to be an awful lot of people who equate "fun" with "don't have to actually train." 



> Anyone that thinks obedience is boring is doing it wrong.


THAT I can agree with. In addition, if your dog finds obedience boring, guess who is boring him? Dogs generally enjoy any activity they are doing with you.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

selzer said:


> I do agree that obedience people like you, (see bolded), tend to be snooty towards the Rally people,


my trainer (who has multiple obedience titles) says that obedience people have a giant stick up their....

I'm working on both and yes, the rally people are just more fun. I think 90% of the high level obedience people have ulcers because man, are they wound a bit tight. Also, their dogs are very flat because they've sucked all of the fun out of it.

I work our clubs trials every year and we all fight to work the rally ring because the people are so much nicer. No one enjoys stewarding the obedience ring because the people are just horrid.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I do both Rally and Obedience with my dogs. 
I would agree Rally is not as strict as Obedience but it's all in what you want to put into it. I use Rally courses to actually refine my dogs training. I dont' give extra signals or commands. I figure if my dog can heel (just like in obed.) and do each sign exactly then he's learning to stay with me, watch me and be ready for what comes next. Obed. can start to feel like the same thing over and over the dog starts to anticipate what comes next. Rally breaks that up and they have to pay attention. 

I dont' agree that all Obed. people are snooty, I do know some that don't give any credit to Rally titles. To me a title is a title and it's an accomplishment doesn't matter if it's Rally or Obed. That's an owner and dog out there doing something fun together and one less dog that could end up in the pound. 

Obed is also not always boring for the dog, you have to make the training fun. I've had several judges complement my dogs on the way they work happy in the obed. ring and they earned placement ribbons working that way. 

To the OP do what you want and have fun with it, why work and train for something you dont' enjoy. Do what you find fun try several areas.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Dainerra said:


> I'm working on both and yes, the rally people are just more fun. I think 90% of the high level obedience people have ulcers because man, are they wound a bit tight. Also, their dogs are very flat because they've sucked all of the fun out of it.


Wow those are really general statements and not necessarily true, especially the part about the flat dogs. Find a trainer who emphasizes motivation in training and you probably won't have a flat dog. The person I train with has over 1000 OTCh points on her current dog and no one would EVER say that dog is flat! Haven't heard that about my own dogs either......tho we don't always have the precision needed 

I don't doubt there are people who have given themselves ulcers over this, but those same people don't have fun in rally either.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

How about I change it to"flat dogs trend to go hand in hand with owners who are snooty"? Honestly you haven't worked an obedience trial until you have 5 people demanding refund because there was a baby crying in the building.our the AC kicked on while they were in the ring. Our the competitor who demanded we make the spectators from the local nursing home leave the building because their dog would be distracted by wheelchairs in the audience (and this was a utility dog! ). 
And it's not just that the dogs are foist because Sometimes they are quite the opposite but they can't deal with anything out of the set routine that they know. They enter the ring and do a,b,, and then c. Any changes or anything unexpected and the dog freezes.

Are all obedience dogs like this? Of course not. But every single who has ever told me that really was worthless was one of those type of handlers and owned one of those dogs. And the rude people always seem to outnumber the polite ones 3 to 1 whereas all of the rally competitors I've dealt with have been polite and easy to deal with


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

DunRingill said:


> I don't doubt there are people who have given themselves ulcers over this, but those same people don't have fun in rally either.


They would probably Consider rally beneath them anyway. I said 90% -the ingress with ulcers trend to be the ones withflat dogs. V probably because they do such all of the fun out of the obedience ring. 
I've actually seen a dog so nervous before going into the ring that it was shaking and throwing up in his create. They said he did it every show and I can tell you his handler was wound so tight it's a wonder his head didn't pop off!


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## gmcwife1 (Apr 5, 2012)

Elaine said:


> Man, I hate rally. It's for people that can't do obedience. It's sort of the joke in the obedience world. If all you want to do is play around with your dog without having to do much real training, then that's the way to go. If you want to have a well trained dog that is reliable every day outside of training, then go for real obedience titles.


Wow, what a bummer  I saw the video and I emailed this thread to my 13 yr old to encourage her to read it before I read all the way to this post. 

We have been thinking of trying rally to get ourselves experience in AKC since we have never entered a dog in any event before and people have talked highly about rally being a good intro and not so overwhelming as obedience.

This reminds me of how *some *Arabian horse people used to be to newbies and it really turned people off to our breed/sport


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

gmcwife1 said:


> Wow, what a bummer  I saw the video and I emailed this thread to my 13 yr old to encourage her to read it before I read all the way to this post.
> 
> We have been thinking of trying rally to get ourselves experience in AKC since we have never entered a dog in any event before and people have talked highly about rally being a good intro and not so overwhelming as obedience.
> 
> This reminds me of how *some *Arabian horse people used to be to newbies and it really turned people off to our breed/sport


OH gosh! Ignore the negativity. RAlly is fun, the people are fun, the judges are fun. I have shown horses forever, (yep, same stuff goes on!)..anyway Rally was my first dog event..and everyone was super helpfull and fun. Do it..its a great time! If you yearn for more difficult,,then do more..simple as that.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

spiritsmom said:


> I would love to do Flyball, but no one in my area does it.


Have you looked for a club on both the NAFA and U-Fli websites? You might have to drive a bit (I drive an hour and a half round trip to practice, and there are people in my club that travel that each way!), but I'll bet you can find _something_. I would look for you if I knew Ohio geography, but I don't.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I really enjoy doing rally obedience. I do think it could be scored with more stringency and that it would become more competitive--and I think I would enjoy that more. There is a lot of room for it to become more stringent without losing the fun of it. 

I have seen a few judges who I think are too loosey-goosey--they don't take points for almost anything! There was one class last year where I think 8 dogs got 100 points--yet not all 8 dogs did what I would consider is a 100-point performance (I was one of them--in my head, I'd scored myself at 97 points, but she gave me 100). There's plenty of room in the rules for taking points without failing someone.

I have a lot of trouble finding training classes in my area for competitive obedience (or rally), so training for group stays, for example, is really hard to do, so I've hesitated to go for a CD or further on my current dogs. I don't worry too much about my dogs breaking a stay and doing anything other than coming straight to me--but I don't trust other people's dogs not to break _their_ stays and go get in my dog's face. So, I'm really glad to have a competition venue that doesn't require me to worry about what someone else's dog is going to do.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah if we're just going to list off things that we've seen in the rally/obedience rings this could go on for days. I've seen plenty of crazy things in both rings, but I'm just saying that overall the rally dogs I have seen aren't as obedient. Sure they don't get tested the same and they get much less room to fail (I've been at a rally show where there were at least 30 dogs in both advanced and excellent and not a single one NQed). I've seen rally dogs run towards the treat bowl or the toy as soon as their leash was off when there was a figure 8 set up with distraction, and yet the dog doesn't NQ because the judge didn't start them yet. Like I've mentioned before...I've seen dogs not sit when the handler repeats it 100 times at a station and yet they just lose a few points.

I've been in the ring plenty of times when I've seen people get higher scores than they've deserved (myself included). I've also been around rally people that do get angry that someone got a higher score than them (and neither dog had enough points to place anyways). If we're going off our own experiences...then there will always be crazy stuff that goes on in both rings.

I think we should just be happy that people are trying to train their dogs towards something and are spending time with their animals.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

With the new rules, Rally is being scored more strictly than in the past. No more "air cookies", and there has to be real team work. There are a lot more NQs at trials now. I recently got dinged 5 points for air cookies with a very young dog that was distracted. 

I think the Novice Rally exercises are more difficult than the Novice Obedience exercises. For obedience, you only have to train a few scenarios, and those never change; a heel pattern that is almost always identical, a figure 8, a stand, and a come with any finish you like. You can easily teach the dog by repetition.

Novice Rally has 36 different signs that can come in any order. Yes, a lot of people enter Rally Novice with a very green dog. But you can do that in Rally without getting laughed off the course by the judge. Rally is supposed to be fun. I never heard anybody say Obedience was fun. Usually people are pulling their hair out by Utility.

I am training my dog for his CDX and working on an RAE2 right now. My dog has moderate (OFA) hip dysplasia, and I wasn't going to train him for CDX because of the 24" jump. But I'm training him with 12" jumps and seeing how it goes. I emailed AKC about lower "preferred" jump heights in obedience and they said it was not something they were considering. 

And my dog LOVES Rally. He gets excited when I ask him if he wants to go to a "dog show". And he performs his little butt off! Otherwise, I wouldn't be spending the money.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

FlyAway said:


> I am training my dog for his CDX and working on an RAE2 right now. My dog has moderate (OFA) hip dysplasia, and I wasn't going to train him for CDX because of the 24" jump. But I'm training him with 12" jumps and seeing how it goes. I emailed AKC about lower "preferred" jump heights in obedience and they said it was not something they were considering.


And this is a great reason to do rally! I know a lot of people that went to rally when they figured out their dog had HD or some other issue that made it so they couldn't jump. One time in rally we had a "broad jump" it was just two boards and I was worried my dog wouldn't know what to do with it. He's used to jumping 4 boards but 2 is pretty much stepping over. Thank god he didn't touch the boards lol.

I know there are 36 signs in rally novice...but they're all variations of things you have to do in novice obedience. Plus the fact that you can talk to your dog as much as you want through those exercises means a much lower chance of failure. I can't think of a single sign that isn't technically an exercise in novice obedience. Plus it always helps that your dog is on leash the whole time...but that's exactly what its meant for, its meant for people to start there and then go forward. I think the issue a lot of "obedience" people have is mostly when people get stuck in rally without a real reason to do so. Its the RAE4s and more that I question. Now...you have a great reason, your dog can't jump, no reason to move forward in obedience. Others...they just think its much more fun and don't feel like doing obedience...to each his own.

I just have a problem with the blanket of "rally dogs are just as obedient as obedience dogs." It's just not true when you look at the whole population. Are there some that are probably good enough to go for a CD or CDX (with a little extra work) absolutely! But I don't believe a majority of them have anything on a dog/handler properly working towards obedience titles.

I've had experiences where I've seen unprepared dogs in rally and obedience. You just wonder what the handler is thinking at that point. But in rally...they'll probably still qualify (really hard to lose 30 points if you don't miss a sign and that's not really the dog's fault).

If I had to relate it to the OP and the course they're going on...if they started in rally today, they'd probably have a very hard time finishing their dog in UD in the next 4 years. I've done most of my RA legs in conjunction with CD legs at shows and it still took a couple months to find shows within a reasonable proximity and that doesn't take into account all the training.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I've done CDs on all the dogs I have raised - Rally was just an idea 7 or 8 years ago...and my AKC trainer is a Rally judge....

I think Rally is very very useful.....the dogs have to do what you want when you want it...not a set pattern.....so if you are going into it with the idea of actually training, you will end up with a well trained dog rather than a pattern trained dog!!! The exercises vary, they are often more interesting to teach and the dogs definitely are more animated (at least when I have been at shows and watching!) than MANY 'pure' OB dogs!! I was at a show last week - dogs in OB were BORED out of their minds, lagging, sniffing, wandering around, lacksadaisical over the jumps etc....just mostly bored dogs.....the last time I showed in an AKC show, my Basha was animated, sat quick, never wandered at all....looked super....but because of the style of heeling got hit badly in points (she was too close!! did qualify - but seeing the other performances, figured a ribbon at least) Dogs who stopped and viewed the audience, that lagged, that never SAT!!!!, got more points!!!!!!!! Not sure I want to throw money at a sport that rewards such horrible performances over happy, animated, correct ones.

Lee


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I've only competed in Rally so far and I have to say most all the people I've met at Rally meets were friendly and helpful with tips for newbies. Some of the competitors I met at the first match I attended (neither Raina or I were really ready) were very helpful and then I saw some of the same people this last year at the same location 2 years after I started. They remembered Raina and me and asked about how we were progressing. We progress slowly because I live in a remote area and work full time so I don't get to go to a lot of shows. Raina got her RN title at the second show we went to. We went 3 days in a row and she Q'd in all and even got a third place in one. I was very proud of her. I like Rally not only because the people are so nice but you can praise your dog and repeat commands if needed without being dinged. I was going to do the CD before going on to RA but haven't pursued it because my trainer left town and I have to do more research to find out what is required.


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

> I am training my dog for his CDX and working on an RAE2 right now. My dog has moderate (OFA) hip dysplasia, and I wasn't going to train him for CDX because of the 24" jump. But I'm training him with 12" jumps and seeing how it goes. I emailed AKC about lower "preferred" jump heights in obedience and they said it was not something they were considering.


Here is a link with some information about new obedience classes with AKC. 

http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/obedience/Notice_New_Classes.pdf

The Pre-Open and Pre-Utility classes will have one-half jump heights.


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## Guardyan (Aug 29, 2005)

Just wanted to add a few things . . . 

It makes me sad to see how many people have disparaging comments about AKC obedience. I truly enjoy obedience competitions and have made some wonderful friends through the years. I don't know if attitudes differ geographically, but can attest that my experiences in obedience have been primarily positive. I've had complete strangers come up and give me a hug after a Q in Utility. I've had people share their advice, experiences, condolences, and congratulations. 

As an example, this year, I NQd my dog in Utility by moving my foot as I reached for a scent article. This would have been our third UD leg and I was frustrated/heartbroken. As I came out of the ring, several people were there with words of encouragement. Within moments, they had me laughing as they offered various solutions from taping my feet in place to yoga lessons! 

I have many good memories from obedience competition and I hope newcomers aren't discouraged by reading about negative experiences. Just remember, if you go to a trial and people seem uptight, it might be stress. One of our club members has an extremely bubbly, outgoing personality. She worked hard all summer to prepare her dog for the Beginner Novice class. She was stressed out at the trial and became very quiet and tense. I knew how she was feeling and attributed it to stress. Someone who didn't know her might think she was a snob or an elitist when she didn't speak to them. That couldn't be farther from the truth - she was just worried.

I think it's important to remember that many clubs are eliminating obedience trials due to lack of participation. Clubs need the entry fees from both rally and regular obedience. If we want to play in the obedience rings in the future, we need to encourage one another.

Someone came up to me at an obedience trial earlier this year and said German Shepherds used to be the breed to beat in the obedience rings. Let's show her and everyone else that they still are!


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Have you looked for a club on both the NAFA and U-Fli websites? You might have to drive a bit (I drive an hour and a half round trip to practice, and there are people in my club that travel that each way!), but I'll bet you can find _something_. I would look for you if I knew Ohio geography, but I don't.


I'll start looking again soon. There were 2 in Cincinnati but both are gone now and none of the local clubs are offering it. My club did and we still have the flyball boxes but no one knows how to train it.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

spiritsmom said:


> I would love to do Flyball, but no one in my area does it.


I heard somebody say there are flyball classes in Hamilton, Ohio. If I find our where, I will let you know.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with guardyn, I actually liked competing in obedience way back when, and she is so right, back then, in the late nineties/early 00's gsd's were abundant in obedience, now not so much 

Tho the girl I competed with wasn't over thrilled with obed, probably to 'slow' for her, she did it and we did well , stopped at a the beginning levels of CD, she was more into 'agility'.. 

People were friendly, this was a time there were 'matches' every weekend for practice, now not so much

I think so much can be gained by even putting a CD on a dog and moving on from there to whatever one chooses..


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## spiritsmom (Mar 1, 2003)

Hamilton is just 15 mins away from me so if there really is one there, it would be awesome!


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