# When is it too late to socialize your dog?



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

When is it too late to socialize your dog? | Life With Dogs

:wub: Interesting new website



> The window for socialization closes just about 4 months, and even if you checked off everything on the list, you still need to continue to get your puppy out and about. The official window is closed but you can and should introduce your dog to the things that he will see in his life with you.
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> If a dog has not been properly socialized as a pup, often times we see adult dogs who act as if they have been abused. Many people with shy and fearful rescue dogs assume that their dogs have been abused, but the reality in the majority of cases is that their dogs did not socialize and learn that life is good when they were puppies.
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> ...


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I think those statements are pretty black and white. Plenty of socialized puppies with genetically predisposed weak nerves end up fearful, leaving their owners scratching their heads what went wrong. And really, "socializing" is a form of conditioning. Although it is best to do at a very young age, the trainer I'm going to be working with in a couple of weeks has a very good history of conditioning older dogs in socialization. So I'm not so sure about those blanket statements . . .


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I am not arguing that socialization is EXTREMELY important, and that yes, there is a developmental window that closes, but I will say like KentukeGSDLover that it isn't just black and white. The article assumes that all pups start out even, and that the difference in temperament and nerve boils down to the socialization received by four months of age. Well, lots of good solid dogs that have been raised in a kennel with no socialization do just fine, and lots of nervy, fearful dogs will never overcome their issues despite the best and most expert of socialization received. 

I like to use Keeta as an example - adopted from the humane society at around 10-12 months old? Now perhaps, she had been socialized as a young dog, but from her reactions and behaviours, it seemed not. I believe she was a tied dog, when I tried to tie her out to see how she will react, she completely shut down. Lowered her head, lay down, and didn't move for over an hour until I realeased her. When I adopted her, she:

Didn't know stairs and was scared. 
Hid behind me or tried to run away if a car or truck passed us by.
Wouldn't approach anything that made a humming sound. 
Hid behind me or tried to run away if she heard a dog barking but couldn't see it. 
Shied away from men.
Had no clue about walking on leash.
Freaked out at rocks and garbage in the ditch.
Didn't know that she _could_ climb over or jump over a log to get to a cat on the other side of the log. Just cried and whined (then she figured out she could go around the log). 


Well, none of these things are issues now, she is a completely different dog. None of these things would have been possible if the closed socialization window was an absolute. She would be, years later, still having the same issues that she had at adoption. 

Socialization then, as said, is an on-going responsibility - I hate it when people say: "I never socialized my dog when she was a puppy, so it's too late now.", or "I never trained my dog to walk on leash when he was a pup, so too late now to do anything about it". That is just not true, it's a cop-out, and articles like that, even though they try to be helpful by making people aware of the importance of early socialization, can also serve to discourage people to keep working with their dogs, because they believe they missed the boat and can't do anything about it.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

i agree 100% with Castlemaid.

Keeni pictures by Bismarck_SD - Photobucket
When we first got Keenai in, he knew the back yard of his house, and that's it.
he was tied to the shelter and lived in the dirt with his sister.
i spent many many weeks just sitting with him, talking to him, petting him, brushing him, to get him used to human contact. He was a terrified 130lb dog, that cowered in the corner, shaking and shivering in his fear.
He eventually went for walks on a leash, which he'd never done before in his life, and he was like a bucking bronco. He learned to walk nicely on a leash.
I took him into foster with me and my dog and 2 cats. He was terrified of the stairs and dropped down like a sack of coal, but with my Bismarck going up and down the stairs, urging him on, he overcame that obstacle also.
he is now adopted and in his forever home. we all will miss him terribly, but the one thing i'd like to get across is...

it is NEVER too late. period. black and white.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

That article would be kind of discouraging if true. Worked in a prison and helped supervised a dog Programfor a local no kill shelter. Most dogs were fearful and not socialized and stairs were the one of the most common fears. We had a small group of inmates who do to various disabilities would be part of a group where they learned some manners and protocul for dogs. we started with two or three gys and just worked as the dog progressed in addition to every guy on the blocks loved these dogs so they were constantly able to interact. Some were young 1to 1.5 years old but some were 5 or 6. 95% of the dogs got used to people and all the trappings,some became social butterflys.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am wondering if there is not more plasticity to it than the article seems to convey. I have made great strides with dogs who were under socialized as pups. It would be impossible to know what their true potential might have been, but the remedial work was helpful.

I currently have four week old pups that are already getting exposure to many things. It is a fine line to not over do with them, but I am seeing how valuable having a breeder who has the time and desire to really prepare young pups might be. 

There are developmental windows, I believe. But, an individual dog may marshall some good skills if socialized and trained depending on their genetic endowment. As good as it could have been? I don't know.


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## BlackJack (Jun 23, 2011)

Its kind of like the author doesn't want to admit some pups are born better than others. I rather take 1 year old dog with solid nerves that needs socialization, than a weak nerved 1 year old that was socialized 4-5 times a week.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I do feel the socialization periods are very important, from a biological standpoint there is brain development going on there and if those windows are missed it does have a pronounced effect on that. Of course genetics also affect things, and if a dog develops a fear it is not necessarily something permanent that can't be changed (sometimes it is) but that does not mean that early socialization is not important. 

It's like if you take a wild animal or a feral dog or cat and raise it from birth or 6 weeks old, it is going to be quite different than if you caught them at 6 months old, or a year, etc... Genetics does also play a factor there and some individuals will be more easy to tame than others. Look at the Russian fox experiments for example, they are interesting in terms of genetics and temperament.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I didn't get my dog until he was at least 4 months old, and all he had been was a farm dog that never set foot inside of a house and never met any people or dogs besides the breeder and her animals. But when I began socialization he never seemed afraid of anything, ever. I think good nerves are more important than getting enough socialization in before the socialization window closes.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Genetics are important. Nurture is important too. Of course, the worst scenario is an under exposed weak-nerved dog.

I read somewhere the postulation of 35% genetic and 65% environmental. I am not sure what research thisvwas based on. Maybe someone will find some of the research articles.

The following article touches on much of the study in the area....

http://www.nwk9.com/dehasse_pupdev.htm


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

That article is useless without citation of scientific research. "Some trainer with some opinion" is what I read. Seems she's bought into the ol' "can't teach an old dog new tricks" mentality.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

It's not the same as "can't teach an old dog new tricks". Socialization windows are not opinion, they are biology.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

but you can still socialize a dog to anything new, no matter the age.


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## Achilles59 (Jan 8, 2021)

Hey did the trainer you were working with help you socialize your older dog. I have a 15 month old German Shepherd dog who was not socialized properly because of Covid and dog parks and classes being close so he didnt see a lot of dogs. Now when he sees a dog he goes nuts, we are seeking a professional trainer who will help us with socializing would be great if you could share your experience and maybe forward me his info. Thank you so much.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Achilles59 said:


> Hey did the trainer you were working with help you socialize your older dog. I have a 15 month old German Shepherd dog who was not socialized properly because of Covid and dog parks and classes being close so he didnt see a lot of dogs. Now when he sees a dog he goes nuts, we are seeking a professional trainer who will help us with socializing would be great if you could share your experience and maybe forward me his info. Thank you so much.


This is an 8 year old thread. I suggest you start your own thread. You will receive far more responses.


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