# What age to obey without treats?



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Is it pretty normal for a pup Saber's age (15 weeks) to listen to me only if I have a treat? Obviously I want her to obey all the time eventually, treat or not. But right now if I get out the treats she does anything I ask, pronto... however if I ask her to do something and I have no visible treat, she just ignores the command about 75% of the time. 

At what age would you expect a pup/dog to listen without treats as a reinforcer?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Hmmm. . . . might want to work on keeping treats hidden and not using them as a lure, but still giving them as a reward. 

With Kopper (10 week) he obeys with no treat in my hand or on my person, but 9 times out of 10 I'll mark the behavior and then go get him a treat from the kitchen. This keeps him listening because he knows I can still reward him even though I don't have a treat in his line of sight.


Example: we're in the bedroom and I don't have treats. "Kopper, sit." He sits. I say "Yesssss!" and immediately dash to the kitchen to get his reward.


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## sportsman1539 (Jan 22, 2011)

Im no expert here what so ever, but what Ive always done to my dogs is use treats when Im initially teaching the trick. Once they know what Im asking, I switch to a toy for a while. Then I switch to a lot of praising and petting. I just recently did all of this within 2 weeks of initially teaching the trick to my pup. Now when I have her attention, she will sit, shake, stay without a treat and do it willingly. I think its more of how your pup learned more than it is the age. But I would think the older they get, the more willing they are to do it without a treat.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with being able to switch your dog from luring to show them what you want to them to do, to - once they understand the exercise - working for reward. People that don't make this gradual change end up with a dog that only works when bribed.


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## kidkhmer (Jul 14, 2010)

I used a clicker for the first time with Karma and I was able to phase out the treat pretty quickly. I always used very clear hand signals and now @ 8 months she will do all the basics on a hand signal most of the time.

OT;If i owned a silly, non-obedient non GSD dog and stumbled upon this forum and saw all these smart, well trained young dogs I would wonder what the **** planet GSD owners lived on!! ;-)


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

Elaine said:


> It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with being able to switch your dog from luring to show them what you want to them to do, to - once they understand the exercise - working for reward. People that don't make this gradual change end up with a dog that only works when bribed.


:thumbup::thumbup:
Exactly what I was going to say.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Elaine said:


> It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with being able to switch your dog from luring to show them what you want to them to do, to - once they understand the exercise - working for reward. People that don't make this gradual change end up with a dog that only works when bribed.


 That sums it up pretty well! Stop working with treats in your hand except when teaching something new, use a marker word or clicker then give the treat. Once your puppy has a good understanding of a certain behavior (she easily performs it any where and on the first cue), start asking for "2fers" and 3fers" before giving her a treat. You can also work behaviors with "300 Peck" to increase understanding and duration between treats: 300 Peck - A Simple Method For Increasing Distance or Duration | Positive Petzine

Training needs to be more about building a relationship with your dog and less about worrying when your young puppy will "obey" you. For now, have fun with your puppy, teach her lots of silly tricks (for treats!), build the foundation for a good working relationship with her, encourage her to play with you and socialize, socialize, socialize.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Hey Shawn, here are two books for you:
Amazon.com: Building Blocks for Performance (0697987903754): Bobbie Anderson, Tracy Libby: Books

and 

Welcome to Dogwise.com, 

and another my favorite 

Welcome to Dogwise.com

They will give you a pretty good idea about teaching obedience and realistic expectations starting from puppyhood.


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