# Thank the Lord, it was a friend and no Stranger...



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

... we went out to the River. It is a beautiful place and it was my first time down there. My friend has two dogs and he texted if I wanted to come. Of course I wanted to come along, what a question. 

His and my dogs get along very well. 

Anyhow, the River is very low so you can walk in the middle of it, over all those plateaus and rocks. It's awesome. 

Anyhow, we were far outside in the River, and Indra discovered a crippled tree. My friend tried to break off the branch so he could throw it for Nala, since both were pulling on it without being able to move it. 
So he reached down, pulled at the branch, in the process of breaking it off (it was a dead tree, in the middle of the river) and Nala went for the branch but instead of the branch she caught his little finger. It was pretty bad and the end of our walk. 
It was bleeding and a deep flesh puncture. I'm not sure if it went all the way down to the bone though. We went back to the car, I pulled out my first aid kit (thankfully I have always my SAR Pack in the car), and stopped the bleeding. It was bleeding all the way back. His car hood looked like somebody killed something on it and I knew it would eventually bleed through. He jumped into his truck and went straight to the hospital. 
That was two hours ago and he's still at the emergency room. 
He sent a text and asked if they were all current on shots. She just got her shots last week. So yes, she's current. 
It was a stupid accident and I should have seen it coming because she's so darn fast. I thought he'd remember since I told them several times how fast she really is but I doubt people actually realize or know what we mean when we say that we have a fast and highly driven working dog. He's got some nice pet dogs but they are very slow dogs. Not nearly as fast as Nala and she is **** fast. 

But that it'd be THAT bad... holy cow, if that had been anyone else but him, I'd be sued over...
I texted him to let me know what's going on and that I'll take him out for dinner, since it is the least thing I can do in the situation. He was joking that they have to take off his finger but that he's otherwise fine.


----------



## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Wow...what a lousy way to end a day. But it was an accident. They can be scary fast.


----------



## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow, scary! Glad he's going to be o.k. Many strangers probably would sue you but I think some people would understand. I wouldn't sue someone if their dog bit me by accident but I guess a stranger may not know the dog was going for the branch and not them.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

It was absolutely awesome and beautiful out there and I'm glad she just caught his little finger and not the entire hand. The little finger is bad enough but the entire hand would have been awful. He said he knows it was an accident and that she didn't mean to bite him and it's true.

It's one thing if it happens to me during training and sometimes it does happen. Indra caught my whole hand not to long ago, it was the first time in almost a year that she got me. She broke skin but it was nowhere near as bad as to the way Nala got my friend. Boy oh Boy, if that had been a child...


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Rivers are always pretty on the surface, but underneath I always think about hidden rocks, boulders, caught logs or branches that will tag you with the current. Low water is just as bad as high!
I saw the amazing pics on fb and had no idea there was an injury happening! 
Karlo was tugging with me last week on a flimsy fleece rope and countered/ got me in the upper thigh. Broke skin and bruised. He immediately knew he got flesh and backed off. 
Nala must have just got him right in the worst place. I hope this doesn't make a bite record for her....and hope your friend recovers fine.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm glad your friend is going to be ok. being sued by a stranger;
would a stranger be pulling up a branch in shallow water for your
dogs?


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Yikes..you might want to offer to help him pay for what his insurance doesn't. It's not cheap to walk into an ER.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> i'm glad your friend is going to be ok. being sued by a stranger;
> would a stranger be pulling up a branch in shallow water for your
> dogs?


No, but they might throw a ball... maybe I'm being too hard on ourselves. Still it's not something I take lightly. It's a serious injury and not just a scratch.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> Yikes..you might want to offer to help him pay for what his insurance doesn't. It's not cheap to walk into an ER.


He's got tricare. From what I know he's fully covered but I will ask him and cover what is left over and still take him out to dinner.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It was a silly accident. Don't be hard on yourself, or him. Jax is constantly nailing my hands grabbing for something I'm picking up. Or bashing me in the head. I'm amazed I have teeth and no stitches.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Rivers are always pretty on the surface, but underneath I always think about hidden rocks, boulders, caught logs or branches that will tag you with the current. Low water is just as bad as high!
> I saw the amazing pics on fb and had no idea there was an injury happening!
> Karlo was tugging with me last week on a flimsy fleece rope and countered/ got me in the upper thigh. Broke skin and bruised. He immediately knew he got flesh and backed off.
> Nala must have just got him right in the worst place. I hope this doesn't make a bite record for her....and hope your friend recovers fine.


Yeah, the neat thing about this River is that it's all completely clear water and you can see to the ground and exactly what is down there. I hope it's not a bite record for her either. I don't think he'd do it. Not sure if the hospital will have to report it. It would majorly suck for her SAR career, I don't even know if she could continue to do SAR at all if it is reported. :help:


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yep, he just sent a text that it's all covered.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The hospital would be the one to record it... my cat bit me when her tail got caught in a dresser(150 punctures/scratches) and after I sought medical attention the AC came and put her on quarantine for 15 days. Poor cat, wasn't her fault and I had shorts and a tank top on, she got me good til I was able to free her tail!


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am afraid I went through that with an accidental bite in NC nearly 30 years ago. Man SWORE it was an accident and it was where one of the dog's canines caught the top of his hand. (He actually swung his hand into the dogs mouth) but he was old , and a diabetic, and it tore, and I insisted we go to the doctor. Had to pay for a private kennel quarantine (or do AC) even though our ducks were all in a row. I sure hope they don't take you down that route.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

They usually allow you to quarantine at home but the catch is they're not supposed to be around other dogs - at all. Technically not even your own!

So just tell them she won't be and they ought to just call in 10 days (after the report is received) and make sure she's still okay.

That's the health dept. btw, not the hospital, although the hospital is the one to turn the report over to the health dept.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I hope it doesn't get reported. That would suck! On Monday night during a protection demo one of the decoys got bit pretty good on his hand. Luckily no one noticed and I just finished the demo. Accidents happen when you work or play with dogs. It's just a way of life.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I hate accidents like that - bad enough that no one feels good about it (the bitee always feels silly too) but then to have to go and get medical care. 

You are in NYS so depending on your county, you will either get a call from the health department, AC will come out to see you, something will probably happen. The health department is animal control there. 

Here you go: Investigating all dog bites with follow ups.
Jefferson County, New York : Dog Control

It is something that could cause you a bit of a freak out - they ma come right out, knock on your door, feels weird - if you can get the proof of rabies from the vet to have on hand - they may not ask for it, but appreciate an owner who is wanting to work with them. Like said, they don't want her around other dogs for that 10 days and then come back to check. Do not answer the door after drinking a beer and looking like you are frothing at the mouth.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, he called. She got him really good at the pinky. What I thought was flesh was the extender and it is completely torn and he might not be able to completely bend his finger anymore. . They had to give him two stitches. He did lie about my identity and said he doesn't know my name and only knows that I am on a team and that the dog is current on her shots. That she did not bite him on purposely bend his finger anymore. I had no idea he would lie about it and I have no idea what consequences that can have because I offered him to come to the er with her shot records but he said they did not even ask any further. Just wanted to know if she was current on the shots.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Well that's good news. I hope all will be forgotten.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I really hope so too. Even though I have the feeling it won't. Not sure if the hospital still passes it over and if they investigate and if it wouldn't be better to simply step forward? I just don't know how to take it, since it says that any dog bite will be investigated. So I don't know what measures will be taken to investigate it. I'm not sure if it wasn't worse to say that she was a professional working dog but that he doesn't know my or her name... there are not many SAR dogs in the town, I'm the ONLY one and this is known in the dog community.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'd just let it play out a bit longer. Obviously it wasn't an aggressive act, just a tag(even though it was a biggie) Too bad he commented the 'team' word.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I think I would just ride it out. Wait and see if anything comes of it. If so be honest. If nothing comes of it then you're in the clear.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wouldn't worry about it further. Take the guy out to eat. It was an accident. He has dogs, you have dogs, dogs have teeth, and there was no bad intent and everyone knows that.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are investigations, and there are investigations. If this was a little kid who got mauled and you took off, they would probably do an investigation. I really doubt they are going to spend a lot of time on an accidental bite that is obviously not a mauling.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I'd just let it play out a bit longer. Obviously it wasn't an aggressive act, just a tag(even though it was a biggie) Too bad he commented the 'team' word.


Not aggressive at all. He did say, later on the phone, that I'm obviously a better trainer and that my dogs are better behaved but that his dogs are very soft mouthed and that he made sure that his dogs would never be too fast or even go for something if they didn't get the approval for it. I tried to explain that with dogs like them, it can happen. Sometimes the drive is going through with them but that it wasn't intentional and that I will work on it and take him out for dinner. 

She got him in the worst spot possible. 

Well, let's see how it plays out. I don't like that he used the team word either. It can look very bad for the team. I know he was trying to protect me and I'm thankful for that.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> I think I would just ride it out. Wait and see if anything comes of it. If so be honest. If nothing comes of it then you're in the clear.


Absolutely. Just never dealt with any of that and especially in the US dog bites are extra scary. :help: :hug:


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Just to clarify, she tore his extensor tendon and the doctor said that the only reason it happened is because there isn't much flesh on the pinky and she got him in a very unlucky spot. So it wasn't flesh what I saw, it was actually the extensor tendon.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would be inclined to talk to the team leadership and let them know what happened and follow their direction. His insurance company may also send him a letter asking him what happened as they want to put the bill of on whoever is responsible. (That happened to me when I broke my ankle at a friend's farm, but I claimed responsibility). 

It is a totally undestandable injury and I have had a few accidental bites, but none that required medical care. 

Good to know they will let you keep her at home. When ours happened, the state (NC) would only allow at home IF you had a lockable kennel with a concrete floor.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> I'd just let it play out a bit longer. Obviously it wasn't an aggressive act, just a tag(even though it was a biggie) Too bad he commented the 'team' word.


Intent or aggression doesn't matter for public health concerns. Just to clarify that. Broken skin/bite and saliva is the focus.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> I would be inclined to talk to the team leadership and let them know what happened and follow their direction. His insurance company may also send him a letter asking him what happened as they want to put the bill of on whoever is responsible. (That happened to me when I broke my ankle at a friend's farm, but I claimed responsibility).
> 
> It is a totally undestandable injury and I have had a few accidental bites, but none that required medical care.
> 
> Good to know they will let you keep her at home. When ours happened, the state (NC) would only allow at home IF you had a lockable kennel with a concrete floor.


I did talk to my k9 coordinator, so she knows what happened and I will talk to the overall team coordinator too. Everybody says it was just an accident and not to worry and maybe I do worry a little too much. 

As a matter of fact, we both have the same insurance companies, I just hope I won't lose insurance for the dogs because of a freak accident. If it can be avoided I might pay out of pocket.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

They probably will investigate, so just be prepared. They may even put a blurb in the newspaper asking the dog owner to come forward, that is what they do here when they need to find a dog that bit someone. If you choose to come forward (I would if I were you, otherwise your friend may have to endure rabies treatment), have her rabies certificate handy and be prepared for the possibility of quarantine. They may let you do it at home, and it's not a big deal--the dog has to stay home for ten days, no walks, no car rides, no visitors. I am not sure how they deal with it when you own other dogs.

Hope this doesn't impact her SAR duties.

My dog once bit a friend of mine, same situation, he had a stick and was waving it around, and she grabbed for the stick and got his finger. Now, I had told him not to throw things for her, as she tends to become pushy and obsessive and won't leave you alone once you throw something. Plus that, her eyesight isn't as good as it used to be. I wasn't there and didn't see this happen, but I was pretty angry that the guy didn't listen to me and put me in a position of liability. He was fine, it was only a little tear next to his cuticle (which, I admit, will hurt and bleed like a son of a gun). No need for medical attention, thankfully, and no need to involve the authorities.

Thus begun the rule of putting the GSDs away when people come over. No matter how many times you tell people not to throw things for your dog, they will do it anyway.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, they pushed for my phone number and said that he would put him through a series of shots if he can't provide the number and proof of rabies. So the warden called and she has to be quarantined. He is actually coming to the house and I'm not sure what he says or if he allows her to be here with the other two. So he might actually take her which I am NOT happy about but it happened. 

At least there are good news with my friend. His pinky will not be impaired. It was only a partial tear. In 12 days they will remove his stitches and it'll all heal up.


----------



## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Wow, it seems crazy and wrong that they will do all this when everyone involved says it was an accident.

Hope this nightmare will soon be over for you. Definitely going to be more careful who I let play with Benny. Even though he has been taught to use a soft mouth, he has accidentally nailed me and family members during rough play, when aiming for the toy.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

It's standard procedure. The main thing I'm worried about right now is if they let her stay in the house or not. Since he is coming out for an inspection and will see that I have multiple dogs and the only way to separate her would be to lock her into the basement which I'm really not willed to do. I don't know if they would accept that either so I wouldn't be surprised if they'd take her and I have no idea if she will actually have a bite record or not.


----------



## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I don't know how to feel about accidents like this that happen and some authority coming in to take my dog away. In domestic violence, which are intentional and not accidents, they don't seem to quarantine the abuser with the same severity as do dogs. Dogs are put to sleep... domestic violence people just get locked up for some time and let out. Or when kids hurt each other by accident. They don't get put away...


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> It's standard procedure. The main thing I'm worried about right now is if they let her stay in the house or not. Since he is coming out for an inspection and will see that I have multiple dogs and the only way to separate her would be to lock her into the basement which I'm really not willed to do. I don't know if they would accept that either so I wouldn't be surprised if they'd take her and I have no idea if she will actually have a bite record or not.


Since I have no idea how that all works. I would be asking a lot of questions when he gets there.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

mycobraracr said:


> Since I have no idea how that all works. I would be asking a lot of questions when he gets there.


Oh I will be. And I just got a tip to make sure that he really sees and understands that they are actual working dogs and that it was just an accident, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I think it may have been better had he just told the truth from the git-go, at the emergency room.
This way it seems it's some nut job running around out there w/a dangerous dog.

They may take her, to quarantine her. It's hard to say. If they do you will have to pay, here at the pound it was $10/night. 

We had a bite case, a foster, of all things (foster home mishandled him and didn't listen to our instructions on handling him, which was leave a leash on all the time). 
The health dept. called and asked about the dog, I told them he's UTD on rabies, and they let me quarantine him here. 
They called 10 days later and asked if he was fine, that is, not sick/foaming at the mouth. 
I told her yes, he's still fine, and that was that.



> they don't seem to quarantine the abuser with the same severity as do dogs.


That's because humans aren't usually suspected of carrying rabies.
The quarantine is not a punishment, it is a disease control measure.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, that is what I thought too. I know he just wanted to protect me but it may have done more harm than any good. He was like "I wanted to keep you out of it but I had to give up your phonenumber." 
When he heard that she has to be quarantined he was seriously concerned and shocked.


----------



## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

I wish you luck Mrs.k I can't believe they are going through all of this for a simple accident,that's no fun. I hope this will blow over quickly,and I wish your friend a speedy recovery


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I always thought the quarantine was for dogs WITHOUT proof of rabies. That's what is really irritating...


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

The protocol here - it did not matter about the shot record. I would pay to put her in a private kennel if she can't be kept at home. I worked at animal control for a while and the "bite" dogs were not treated particularly well. 

I am so sorry. The question on the hand and paying for it is if they think he needs to see a hand surgeon. If not, sucking it in and payding directly for ER would be the way to go as the ER visit and stiches may not be that much but they may do reconstruction to get back function on that finger. THAT would run into serious money.

When we had our incident there were no issues with my insurance company. I was up front, we were able to document that it was CLEARLY an accident. and all was well. Of course that was almost 30 years ago and things may have changed.

OH, good to see its all covered. Hopefully the beancounters won't come back on you!


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

No, even with a current rabies they still must be quarantined.
It's nice to have the rabies certificate on hand, and what-not, but it's not going to prevent a quarantine.

jocoyn, I treated the bite holds as any other dogs, except if it was clearly still a risk even in the shelter. I had to handle one guy (huge purebred Rottie) w/a catch pole even after he was in the kennels.



> When he heard that she has to be quarantined he was seriously concerned and shocked.


A quarantine has nothing to do with being "vicious" or "aggressive". Its solely about disease control.

Because sure as the world, as soon as they do not do one, the dog will die of rabies and people will die. It's really about liability as much as anything.
Rather like getting your dog a bordetella before boarding. It's about liability more than protecting the pet.

That said, the quarantine will basically need to be done away from other dogs which is why they may impound her. 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quarantine


> 1.
> a strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease.


----------



## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> The protocol here - it did not matter about the shot record. I would pay to put her in a private kennel if she can't be kept at home. I worked at animal control for a while and the "bite" dogs were not treated particularly well.
> I


I would also see if you can put her in a private kennel if you can't keep her at home or maybe if allowed with a friends who has no other dogs. I would worry about her catching an illness being kept with unknown quarantined dogs and also how it will effect her psychologically being away from home, with strangers and other stressed out dogs


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Either way it'll be stressful. Maybe your vet has boarding and they can do it.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

msvette2u said:


> jocoyn, I treated the bite holds as any other dogs, except if it was clearly still a risk even in the shelter. I had to handle one guy (huge purebred Rottie) w/a catch pole even after he was in the kennels.


I did as well, but where I worked, some of the helpers who cleaned kennels were not particularly nice and teased the quarantined dogs and hit them directly with the hoses when they cleaned the runs. It depends on where you are! And we were not told which dogs were accidental bites and which ones were vicious brutes.


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I have good news. The dog warden was just here. It was a nice lady. She pulled into the driveway and of course Indra was barking at the door and I called her off and opened the door. First she was kind of wary to come in because she got bit by one of the dogs she just visited and their ten days started all over again. 

Indra and Nala behaved beautifully, were very quiet and laid back. She petted both of them and said that she can see that they are well mannered and Nala can stay HOME!!!! I just have to make sure she doesn't get in contact with anyone or anything outside this family. If I take her outside she must be leashed and can't get in contact with people, dogs or any critter and I'm not allowed to train her off leash at all. She said to just sit it out. 

They will come back at the 25th to check up on her again and if anything happens again, the ten days would start all over again. 

This was her fourth visit today.

She will have no bite record, it will not go into the statistic either. WHEW!!!!


----------



## Dr. Teeth (Mar 10, 2011)

Mrs.K said:


> It's standard procedure. The main thing I'm worried about right now is if they let her stay in the house or not. Since he is coming out for an inspection and will see that I have multiple dogs and the only way to separate her would be to lock her into the basement which I'm really not willed to do. I don't know if they would accept that either so I wouldn't be surprised if they'd take her and I have no idea if she will actually have a bite record or not.


I too am not fond of the idea of government pet police taking my animal. I'm really against having a strike against the life of my dog should some minor incident occurr. 

If I were ever on the receiving end of an unintentional nip. I would report that I was bit by a strangers dog, I looked at the rabies tag, and told the owner I wasn't concerned. No names, end of story, stitch me up.


----------



## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> INala can stay HOME!!!! I just have to make sure she doesn't get in contact with anyone or anything outside this family. If I take her outside she must be leashed and can't get in contact with people, dogs or any critter and I'm not allowed to train her off leash at all. She said to just sit it out.
> 
> They will come back at the 25th to check up on her again and if anything happens again, the ten days would start all over again.
> 
> ...


This is great news!!!


----------



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Dr. Teeth said:


> I too am not fond of the idea of government pet police taking my animal. I'm really against having a strike against the life of my dog should some minor incident occurr.
> 
> If I were ever on the receiving end of an unintentional nip. I would report that I was bit by a strangers dog, I looked at the rabies tag, and told the owner I wasn't concerned. No names, end of story, stitch me up.


Thats what he tried to do. Problem is, they didn't buy it. However, I'm glad it happened, at least I know what to expect and how to avoid it next time.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That's a relief! So glad it worked out for you


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

:thumbup: Oh good, now you can relax!


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yay glad things are falling in line in a nice way.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I guess if that ever happens to me -- being bitten by a friend's dog, I will look at the rabies tag/certificate and say it was my own dog that bit me. Just playing, and missed the stick and got my hand. Oops. 

I have had bites from my own dogs treated at the hospital ER, and one time I got a letter from the health department saying to quarantine the dog, and that was the last I heard about it. 

My dog killed a raccoon, I called, and the health department came out, told me to get him a booster on his rabies shot, and took the raccoon away, but said it was too far gone to test. They said he needed to be quarantined, and my yard where he was was fine. 

Glad that your dog doesn't have to go to a pound for this.


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm glad it all worked out!


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Glad it all worked out Sandra. Thats great news!


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Great news!!! So glad it's working out for the better, Mrs. K!


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Glad your dog gets to stay home with you. Six years ago, a feral kitten we were trying to get spayed had to be quarantined in our home. The vet had already seen her once and gave her a rabies shot, I had warned the vet and the techs to wear gloves with this kitten as a precaution, one tech did not and got a bite in their office. We had to have a local police office check her out in our home a couple times. It seemed unfair, one because she had a rabies shot and secondly because I left the kitten with professionals, I expected them to know better. But that's the way it goes.


----------

