# Female vs. female... my worst nightmare just got real



## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

I had previously posted about my 2 female dogs, mother and daughter, and my being afraid of them fighting against each other later.

They had "normal" squabbles til now, snapping at each other over a toy or food (they started eating fast to try to steal the other's food), but nothing major and I could always stop them and then after a second it was like nothing happened between them. Actually since I started using NILIF this sort of things reduced to a minimum.

But today several things went wrong and they got into a fight.

* First, I haven't been able to work with them or exercise them lately cause I sprained my ankle some weeks ago and it has gotten worse and worse instead of healing and most of the time I can only feed them and have them do a couple of tricks before the pain gets unbearable and I have to go rest.
* Then, my pup has been sick for a couple of weeks too and I may have been paying more attention to her recently because of this, even if I try to be equal for all the dogs.
* My big one is in heat (maybe it has nothing to do with aggression but it does have to do with the causes of the fight, explaining below).
* It's almost Christmas and the stupid people in this city LOVE loud firecrackers around this time of the year, all day all night, even if they're supposed to be banned. So imagine tense, scared, stressed dogs.

My 2 girls were in the backyard with my male mini poodle, the male GSD mix is separated from them with a metal railing. I was just calling the pup inside to get her medications and all.
In an instant, this happened. Big male comes and whines at big girl in heat, mini male dog goes and picks a fight with him, big girl runs and picks a fight with big guy trying to "defend" the little guy (or so I think), smaller girl runs and barks at him too, big girl jumps on smaller girl and mounts her, smaller girl of course tries to defend herself.

So yeah, chaos unleashed and I got on top of the big girl and held her from behind and my brother came and took the smaller one. Smaller one kept groaning at big one but didn't do anything else, she was actually leaving peacefully. BUT big one struggled and freed herself and went after the pup. Twice. I got her again as soon as she reached her and was grabbing her neck.

Smaller one went inside the house, big one stayed in the backyard, separated.

Luckily there are no injuries at all, but now I fear I won't be able to have them together again because I know females hold grudges and that they can fight to the death.

Any suggestions?

How can I keep both of them without them being able to fight again?
Right now as I am I can't do any walking or a lot of training. Crating? Something else?

Please?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This was all caused by your bitch being in heat and your males wanting her, they start fighting so the others came over and it becomes a free for all. Nobody is defending anyone, this is what happens when a fight breaks out when there's more than two dogs.

I will never, ever own two bitches at the same time for this very reason: you never know when they are going to decide they hate each other and that's the end of peace in the household. There are people that do this successfully, but there are more people that fail at this than not.

I hate to say it, but you are going to have to keep them separated by baby gates or crating. You can also consider rehoming one of them if needed.

There is a remote possibility that they are going to be fine because this was a pack fight and not just a bitch fight. You can try reintroducing them by taking them out for a walk together - and I mean with two people in case you have to keep them apart - and see what happens.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Yeah. 

Just now I tried to see how they reacted when they saw each other through a screen door (pup still inside the house, mom outside). They both sniffed each other, acted friendly, even whined at each other. Then I opened the door (with people ready to grab them both inside and outside just in case) and they started sniffing each other like they always do, noses on ears and all, then the pup started groaning and her mom tried to place a paw on top of her. Then we separated them again.

I think they do have a chance of being together again, but they're not ready yet. As you said I need to walk them together which I can't right now, aargh! Maybe if I use rollerskates, lol? Then I'll have the chance to sprain both my ankles.

The pup just seems to be cautious around her mom, especially since she was "attacked".

I need to find out what am I gonna do with them in the mean time, I can only have them in separate areas of the house for now. If I do get crates, how safe are those? I mean, there's no chance they would knock them over or something, right?
Any kind that is the best for this?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Any kind of wire or plastic crate is fine.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks, Elaine! Now I need to look for two of those and start researching crate training.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

first neuter all dogs, don't leave a small male loose with a bitch in heat with only a railing between big male. This is NOT a problem between mom and daughter but between irresponsible adult and pack. Even best friends would get into a fight under these circumstances. Spay the mom and her pup, they will get along then. Neuter both males. Hire some one to give long walks/runs on leash under control, one at a time. burn some energy. Have your ankle xrayed it should not be getting worse after a few months. 

Use crates, rotate, and practice downs/sits/stays/etc even if you can't walk, these can be done while sitting. Keep using NILIF, but that only works when hormones aren't raging. Who is the father of the pup?? You don't want a father daughter breeding either, so if the big male is it, definitely get on the fixing them all, the mom will really go after the pup when she has her heat. Unless you plan on ruining/killing/ and then rehoming a problem dog, you must solve this quickly.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

trudy, the big male and the pup are both neutered.
EDIT: Forgot to say I didn't spay the mom because after talking to the vet and after I read some cases, she could get more aggressive. I won't lie and say this was my final decision though, sometimes I consider it again.

The mini poodle is not usually with them all, he's mostly with the pup (like in my avatar) but you're right, I should have been more careful.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Dejavu said:


> Forgot to say I didn't spay the mom because after talking to the vet and after I read some cases, she could get more aggressive. I won't lie and say this was my final decision though, sometimes I consider it again.


Say what?! This is a first for me and wonder where you got that information? This is so not true and should not keep you from spaying your dog.


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## Dejavu (Nov 11, 2010)

Elaine, I'm glad and relieved to hear it's not true. I guess I need to read more about it, I don't remember exactly where I saw/read that, but my vet did say that in some cases bitches get more aggressive. 
At that moment I thought it was best not to do it then, but if needed I'll definitely consider it.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I definitely agree with getting everyone spayed/neutered to help get the hormones out of the situation.

The other thing going on isn't just the 2 bitches but that you have at least 4 dogs (right?). That in itself is a entire dynamic amongst themselves with and without you.


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