# got chewed out



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

I sent an email to the breeder of my puppy to ask a couple of questions. She answered but I could tell, she was not real "happy" that I emailed her. And it was NOTHING bad. I told her I liked the pup and was real happy with her but just had some questions since the pup was so young. Just wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing etc.... Since I had always gotten pups at 8 weeks. The person who put me in touch with this breeder emailed me and told me to not get in touch with her again. WTH??? So the breeder just wants to breed, get rid of pups and wants nothing to do with the new owners if they have questions?? I find that disturbing.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Uh what exactly did you ask ?


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

if she had any helpful hints on crating because my pup was having a hard time with it. And that's why I came here to this board to get help and I got great tips from people here.


----------



## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I find that disturbing also!


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

you were told not to contact the "breeder" again? by the person who put you in touch with her in the first place???? wow!!!!

How old is your pup???? younger than 8 weeks??? 

There are plenty of threads about crate training.....welcome, and I hope your pup works out well!


Lee


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

wolfstraum said:


> you were told not to contact the "breeder" again? by the person who put you in touch with her in the first place???? wow!!!!
> 
> How old is your pup???? younger than 8 weeks???
> 
> ...


yup, you got that correct  When I picked her up she was a a few days under 7 weeks old.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Yeah that's weird... make sure you've got the pup squared away and in your name. Reminds me of a lot of stuck up rescues, they won't adopt out to people if they don't have a fence... or a vet reference.. or a dog pooper scooper. May be upset thinking you don't know how to take care of a dog? Or just a creep looking to make a quick buck like you said. Plenty of people here to help you out :grin2:


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

it sounded like the breeder contacted the person who put me in contact with her for the pup and told her that I emailed her and to tell me to not email her about anything. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Yeah that's weird... make sure you've got the pup squared away and in your name. Reminds me of a lot of stuck up rescues, they won't adopt out to people if they don't have a fence... or a vet reference.. or a dog pooper scooper. May be upset thinking you don't know how to take care of a dog? Or just a creep looking to make a quick buck like you said. Plenty of people here to help you out :grin2:


The breeder and the other party are friends. They interchange dogs for breeding etc.... But I emailed the breeder who I got the pup from since it came from her. Why would i email the other person who didn't raise this litter?? Weird!!!!


----------



## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Is the breeder in NorCal by any chance?


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

ausdland said:


> Is the breeder in NorCal by any chance?


no they are not


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am trying to picture how that went down. 

A breeder gets an e-mail from a puppy buyer about managing the puppy. The breeder is busy, tired, a little annoyed that people buy dogs and do not know everything there is to know about raising a puppy, or simply is not very good at projecting a positive attitude in written format. 

Then the breeder has a conversation with her friend. The breeder did not tell you not to contact her by e-mail. It sounds like her rather co-dependent friend took that upon herself to tell you. Look, breeders do discuss buyers. We learn from other breeders, and we discuss everything that has to do with dogs. This is not necessarily a bad thing. It may help us refine what we talk about when people pick up their puppy, or BEFORE people pick up a puppy. 

Once upon a time I sent a puppy buyer to my trainer to take classes. He was going through a rough stretch with his wife, and he talked about his problems with my trainer. Only, they weren't dog problems. You can bet I heard about that. And, that was 12 years ago, she STILL starts every first class session with, "And you can call me, with DOG problems..." And I feel a twinge of guilt every time. 

Yes, breeders talk to each other. Breeders/trainers talk. We discuss things people expect from us, and things people have done, and things people don't know. It sounds like your friend took that conversation and ran to you to tell you know to e-mail her. 

Did the breeder give you her e-mail address? 

If she did, e-mail her. If she gave you a phone number, call her. Let her tell you that she does not want to hear from you, or would rather a different method of conversing. For example, it may be easier for her to explain over the phone what to do with the crate, while typing an e-mail may not be as simple. Not just because she has to spell it out, she cannot get feedback as she goes along, so she has no way of knowing if you are getting what she is writing. People learn in a lot of different ways. Good breeders and good trainers have to be good listeners and adjust their advice to the audience. There isn't really an audience with an e-mail, as there is with a phone conversation. So that might be part of the problem. 

But let the breeder tell you they are unhappy with your contact. Don't take that from a third party, who may have their own agenda.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

selzer said:


> I am trying to picture how that went down.
> 
> A breeder gets an e-mail from a puppy buyer about managing the puppy. The breeder is busy, tired, a little annoyed that people buy dogs and do not know everything there is to know about raising a puppy, or simply is not very good at projecting a positive attitude in written format.
> 
> ...


you could be right. I'm just going to deal with this myself with the help of other people outside the breeder circle. I don't feel comfortable with them. There is just something that isn't right and maybe game playing? Who knows but I don't want the drama. I went thru a horrific experience at my last work place that nearly destroyed me 10 months ago and I'm kind of tired of people.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

desertsage01 said:


> you could be right. I'm just going to deal with this myself with the help of other people outside the breeder circle. I don't feel comfortable with them. There is just something that isn't right and maybe game playing? Who knows but I don't want the drama. I went thru a horrific experience at my last work place that nearly destroyed me 10 months ago and I'm kind of tired of people.


Gee, and I was just going to start a thread in the chat-room, " I hate everybody and everything." Maybe it's contagious. I probably wouldn't have posted it. 

Good breeders do want to hear from you. Even, with problems. We are human though, and sometimes after being up with a pup for two nights and losing it anyway, the fatigue and frustration might come through. Also, we have lives, some of us have jobs, and problems at work, etc. Yes, we have to be professional to our buyers, but sometimes there are extenuating circumstances: a death in the family, a kid in the hospital, a parent losing reality and health. Sometimes we should give someone the benefit of the doubt, or a second chance, knowing that someday we might be needing that same service of others.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

what's done is done. It's just frustrating. We will muddle thru and hopefully all works out well in the end.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I would agree that what Seltzer said is possible. BUT I'm also willing to bet that the breeder isn't a good one since they let a puppy go at 7 weeks old to what appears to be, at most, an average pet home (nothing wrong with that OP!). Those type of people typically discourage buyers from contacting them as soon as the money changes hands.


----------



## Shane'sDad (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree with selzer--makes sense--because people/breeders do talk back and forth. I've got to ask though... how did the puppy purchase go ? Did you meet the pups parents/ Talk with breeder for a while about what you should and shouldn't do ? Most breeders want to know (or at least say they want to know ) about issues/problems with their pups. Years ago I was one of the "dreaded" back yard breeders and I stayed in touch with the pup buyers by phone a lot... because I wanted to know how they were doing as they grew. I understand that wouldn't be practical for breeders in todays world.. to stay in touch the way I did back then....but Wow!....your story reminds me of someone buying a used car...any way Good Luck...being here on the forum you and the pup will manage I'm sure.


----------



## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

The vast majority of imprinting pups is basic operant conditioning. You reinforcement behaviors you want to strengthen and ignore behaviors you want to extinguish. There are a few cases where you need to provide punishment, but the more creative and proactive you are, less punishment is needed. When you put your pup in the crate, make sure he/she has had time to use the bathroom. Don't gave any water too soon before crating. Be mater of fact and give the same command using the same intonation, such as "get in" and don't let the pup fight you on being crated. If the pup goes in immediately, give a small treat and praise and leave him alone, preferably in a separate room. If he starts to scream and cry, leave him alone. As soon as he is quiet, go back in the room where the crate is and calmly praise the dog and leave. Things will likely get worse before they get better, but over time, the pup will learn that calm behavior brings praise and self soothing and agitation brings withdrawal of reinforcement. The crate should not be used as punishment. Putting a pup in the crate in a calm manner because the pup needs to settle is not necessarily punishment. If you become angry at your pup, say for peeing on the floor and aggressively put the pup in the crate, that is what I would consider punishment.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I would email the breeder one short email asking how they prefer to be contacted for support and/or issues with the puppies they have sold. If they fob you off again, continue what you are doing getting help elsewhere and here, and personally I would review them every place possible so other people will know what they are potentially getting into (this forum is not such a place. but..social media is). I would give them one more chance to make it right (since you heard 2nd hand they did not want you to email.) 

Good luck OP.


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

selzer said:


> A breeder gets an e-mail from a puppy buyer about managing the puppy. The breeder is busy, tired, a little annoyed that people buy dogs and do not know everything there is to know about raising a puppy, or simply is not very good at projecting a positive attitude in written format.


Nice thing about email is that if a breeder is busy or tired they don't have to answer right away. This is why I prefer email. 

If they are annoyed at giving support to their buyers, maybe they shouldn't be breeding anymore. 

As for the latter point, yes, some people are a bit more blunt and not as eloquent with their responses.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 16, 2018)

That's very disturbing. Any breeder I'd buy a pup from would generally have either a decent website with FAQs and contact info, and/or a forum set up to discuss their business and answer questions, and they'd certainly have a more welcoming attitude about questions asked from clients!

That being said, in my non-expert opinion, so long as a pup has weaned from it's dam, the extra week or so without littermate socialization shouldn't be a big deal. I might worry about something like a pup being shipped long distance at that age, but at 7 weeks they are said to be fully developed as far as brain function goes. 

I often wish there was a "breeders to avoid" thread here but I guess our litigious society makes that impossible.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

Shanes' Dad said:


> I agree with selzer--makes sense--because people/breeders do talk back and forth. I've got to ask though... how did the puppy purchase go ? Did you meet the pups parents/ Talk with breeder for a while about what you should and shouldn't do ? Most breeders want to know (or at least say they want to know ) about issues/problems with their pups. Years ago I was one of the "dreaded" back yard breeders and I stayed in touch with the pup buyers by phone a lot... because I wanted to know how they were doing as they grew. I understand that wouldn't be practical for breeders in todays world.. to stay in touch the way I did back then....but Wow!....your story reminds me of someone buying a used car...any way Good Luck...being here on the forum you and the pup will manage I'm sure.


There was no contact between me and the actual breeder. I'm in a different state than her. No emails or phone calls. Maybe she thought I was going to keep "bothering" her? Which I had not planned on doing  I just had two questions and that was all. The lady here who put me in touch with this pup doesn't let her pups go at 7 weeks and she didnt' like how the pup was delivered. It was just real bad all the way around. But live and learn. I wouldn't do it this way again. the only time I did an out of state pup sale and it went well was when we imported from Holland. The breeder even with his real bad english, was more than willing to keep in contact with me and we emailed back and forth for a while. He just wanted to know how things were going.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

CometDog said:


> I would email the breeder one short email asking how they prefer to be contacted for support and/or issues with the puppies they have sold. If they fob you off again, continue what you are doing getting help elsewhere and here, and personally I would review them every place possible so other people will know what they are potentially getting into (this forum is not such a place. but..social media is). I would give them one more chance to make it right (since you heard 2nd hand they did not want you to email.)
> 
> Good luck OP.


She thought I was mad because the pup was barely 7 weeks old. I wasn't but I was concerned and worried. She then said it was probably because i didn't have any other dogs. WHAT!?? What a dumb comment. A lot of people have one dog or start out with one dog and get a second later on right? It's just weird and I just think she doesn't want to be bothered. But maybe that should be on her website. You buy, don't contact me after you take puppy. NO help will be offered. We're doing ok. I will never again get a pup less than 8 weeks old tho. She said that one week makes NO difference. It does!! She's 2 days shy of 8 weeks and there is a difference in her. More confidence (not a ton but some). Her eyes are brown now, not blue. She can walk around better. She's more agile. There's a difference. When she came she was just under 7 weeks and she looked way young, everything about her.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

Chip Blasiole said:


> The vast majority of imprinting pups is basic operant conditioning. You reinforcement behaviors you want to strengthen and ignore behaviors you want to extinguish. There are a few cases where you need to provide punishment, but the more creative and proactive you are, less punishment is needed. When you put your pup in the crate, make sure he/she has had time to use the bathroom. Don't gave any water too soon before crating. Be mater of fact and give the same command using the same intonation, such as "get in" and don't let the pup fight you on being crated. If the pup goes in immediately, give a small treat and praise and leave him alone, preferably in a separate room. If he starts to scream and cry, leave him alone. As soon as he is quiet, go back in the room where the crate is and calmly praise the dog and leave. Things will likely get worse before they get better, but over time, the pup will learn that calm behavior brings praise and self soothing and agitation brings withdrawal of reinforcement. The crate should not be used as punishment. Putting a pup in the crate in a calm manner because the pup needs to settle is not necessarily punishment. If you become angry at your pup, say for peeing on the floor and aggressively put the pup in the crate, that is what I would consider punishment.


Thanks. that's pretty much what I'm doing right now. Only thing is the crate is in the dining room which is off the living room where she can see us but that hasn't made a difference - meaning she's handling the crate much better now - day 2.
I feed in the crate, wait for quiet which isn't long. Get her out, let her get a drink, play, outside for potty and by then I can see she's ready to lay down for some sleep so I put her in the crate. Right now she's in there asleep. 
She's sleeping better with a pair of my sweat pants. 
I never ever get mad at her or treat this as negative. She gets plenty of soothing cradling while going over to crate. And when she does cry in there, I don't yell at her to be quiet or anything, I just ignore her. I watch the clock so that I keep track of potty time for her. But I need to wait for that quiet time before letting her out and then catch that moment to get her out for outside. I don't crate her all day for short periods, IF one of us can watch her, we let her be out with us. that happens mostly in the evening since that's her more active time. But I'm trying to get her in a more structured routine. She wasn't eating very well because it wasn't structured. I was putting food in crate but door open so she would get distracted and come out and grab a toy and forgot that she was eating. But feeding and closing her in, she's eating much better. 
When I see she's doing really well in crate, I will take the x pen out and switch to crate for night sleeping. Hopefully that method works  I don't mind the x pen but she's going to outgrow it in a couple months or so. I"m afraid she'll jump on it and knock it over. So if I'm not home and she gets out, not good. Crate much better option.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

lhczth said:


> Nice thing about email is that if a breeder is busy or tired they don't have to answer right away. This is why I prefer email.
> 
> If they are annoyed at giving support to their buyers, maybe they shouldn't be breeding anymore.
> 
> As for the latter point, yes, some people are a bit more blunt and not as eloquent with their responses.


Just listing some possibilities. And yes, one possibility is that she is annoyed at giving support to buyers. The point is, that that is not the only possibility. 

And the comment about, not having other dogs. The breeder is not blaming the buyer for not having other dogs. She is just saying that the puppy is accustomed to having her litter around her all the time, and she may not be eating or may be acting lonely or depressed because there are no other dogs. It is not a rebuke, it is just a possible truth. If the problem is this, the breeder should go on to give some suggestions to make the puppy more comfortable seeking the owner as its source of comfort -- the answer is not to shower the puppy with love and attention, but to let the puppy relax and come to him, by giving the puppy a little space. The breeder should warn not to take the puppy out to meet other dogs, as its vaccinations are not able to keep the puppy safe yet. 

Yes, the breeder should be more accommodating to a new buyer. But even with e-mail, some of us feel we do have to answer as soon as we get it, otherwise we may forget, and sometimes we do have other things going on/extenuating circumstances. 

Frankly, I do not think it is very helpful to pound the snot out of someone's breeder on a website, with only a partial conversation. It only serves to give the buyer a lot more concerns about his purchase, and that sounds like a done deal. The puppy is there in his home. It is seven weeks old, which is certainly not going to be the end of the world -- a lot more concerning if it was four weeks old. We do not know that the breeder does not want to talk to this guy, just an impression and then feedback from another source that may or may not have gotten it straight.


----------



## JBjunior (Feb 8, 2018)

It comes across like you never had contact with the breeder to begin with and your friend brokered the exchange. If so, it might seem to the breeder they don't have a relationship with you at all and was surprised that your first contact was, what may have sounded like, a complaint about the age of the puppy. She could have been concerned you were calling her out about her practices, instead of just asking a question, and based on your subsequent posts here you are/were very concerned about the age of the puppy you received and that likely came out in the email. 

It is also possible your friend already complained to her about the age of the puppy so she was already aware and/or your friend has painted you in some way to the breeder that caused her to not be so open to your contact.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

CometDog said:


> I would email the breeder one short email asking how they prefer to be contacted for support and/or issues with the puppies they have sold. If they fob you off again, continue what you are doing getting help elsewhere and here, and personally I would review them every place possible so other people will know what they are potentially getting into (this forum is not such a place. but..social media is). I would give them one more chance to make it right (since you heard 2nd hand they did not want you to email.)
> 
> Good luck OP.


What? Start dissing a breeder on social media? Nobody knows what is going on in her life. I dislike social media drama and have nothing to do with it. (Except Police K-9 Odin's account  https://www.facebook.com/Odin-Coos-County-Sheriffs-K9-132425400750239/


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

CometDog said:


> I would email the breeder one short email asking how they prefer to be contacted for support and/or issues with the puppies they have sold. If they fob you off again, continue what you are doing getting help elsewhere and here, and personally I would review them every place possible so other people will know what they are potentially getting into (this forum is not such a place. but..social media is). I would give them one more chance to make it right (since you heard 2nd hand they did not want you to email.)
> 
> Good luck OP.


I don't know the OP personally. I don't know the breeder. If a breeder gets on social media and disses a buyer, it will not hurt the buyer. He can go anywhere and purchase another puppy. Few breeders will read the post and remember his name when they have a litter to home. It will not negatively affect him at all. 

For a buyer to diss a breeder is a whole other story. People tend to let good stuff go in one ear and come out the other with barely any processing of the information. The negative stuff stakes a claim in the memory and festers and grows there. Nothing new. Shakespeare wrote, "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones..." It is the human condition. But that kind of negativity can seriously hamper someone's business. 

And it is NOT always fair at all. Some folks have unreasonable expectations, and some exaggerate a situation to make themselves look more in the right and the other party more in the wrong. It is not always even conscious. I mean, how many of us know that we are unreasonable when we are in the process of being unreasonable??? 

A breeder can have a hundred happy customers, but one customer, whose dog may have a problem, can then get on their favorite social media site and make up a story of a non-existent contract (because she didn't buy the puppy from the breeder, but from the stud owner), and how the breeder wouldn't honor the non-existent contract. And people believe that and will remember it. And long after buyer and breeder have managed their difficulties, others will still remember a negative about the breeder, not the buyer. 

So, no, I am not for encouraging people to schmere a breeder on social media. Most folks have no problem letting their fingers fly without others telling them to do so.


----------



## desertsage01 (Jan 3, 2018)

selzer said:


> I don't know the OP personally. I don't know the breeder. If a breeder gets on social media and disses a buyer, it will not hurt the buyer. He can go anywhere and purchase another puppy. Few breeders will read the post and remember his name when they have a litter to home. It will not negatively affect him at all.
> 
> For a buyer to diss a breeder is a whole other story. People tend to let good stuff go in one ear and come out the other with barely any processing of the information. The negative stuff stakes a claim in the memory and festers and grows there. Nothing new. Shakespeare wrote, "the evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones..." It is the human condition. But that kind of negativity can seriously hamper someone's business.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not into smearing anyone's name on social media. I've had enough BAD drama at a toxic work place that I used to work at. 
I don't even like social media. You post a picture of a rock and people will fight and argue about it.


----------



## DaBai (Aug 13, 2017)

I am in the other camp for this. I think people should leave their valid experiences with the breeder as reviews regardless it being good or bad, if the breeder chooses to use social media to advertise their pups then sure leave the reviews on social media. Or what is the point of review if you are only supposed to post good reviews of a business? If a breeder is generally a good breeder, they will get more good reviews than bad, I mean most long-running business I know of have their shares of bad reviews, but as long as they have more good reviews than bad I would be willing to use their product/service.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Maybe the breeder thought this "friend" had other plans for this pup and was surprised or upset when they became aware of its actual location (from your email). Breeder then demands answers from the friend. Now the friend is unhappy that their change of plans for the pup was discovered by the breeder and you get caught in the middle so to speak?


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I disagree about web reviews. 

Most legitimate businesses have pages with a request for ratings, and those ratings show the business person's retort, to bad reviews, if warranted. 

I have seen fake service dog breeders shut down that way, people selling sick puppies shut down that way, and I have gotten results from businesses both small and large who sold defective products and would not exchange, insurance companies that were auto denying claims (travel insurance, my mother in law fell down the stairs at my house and the insurance she purchased would not pay anything) was brought to attention and only then honored a perfectly valid claim. The car dealer I bought my car from tried to have their mechanics lie and say a transmission noise was due to an impact therefore not covered..they based that on a yellow scuff on the wheel. Uh uh. Asking for managers, calling Honda headquarters, no help whatsoever. Until I finally blasted the dealer on their FB page. Results came right away!

Look, I don't mean bash a breeder on FB for little things..and you should ALWAYS try to rectify privately first...but in this day and age their is NOTHING wrong with leaving an honest FB or Yelp review, good or bad. When something like this happens I feel, personally, a review stating such is my responsibility to future buyers buying blind. Breeder said 8 week old puppy- lie- it was not even 7 weeks. If that is the truth, is anyone here defending that and saying other prospective buyers don't deserve a heads up? Is anyone saying that being that young doesn't come with issues that OP is paying for now even though she forked over $$ for a well bred dog from what she thought was a responsible breeder? 

When you sell a product or service, and you take someone's money, you betcha customer reviews both good and bad should be expected and issues rectified. Receiving bad reviews frivolously and replying/rectifying them is an unpleasant part of making money off the public and/or advertising on the net. Word of mouth good or bad has ALWAYS made or broke businesses, especially small ones. You need a thick skin and dealing with negativity properly is a needed skill. So we will have to agree to disagree on that one. 

Not saying OP should do it in this case, and apparently she doesn't want to which is FINE..but sorry, anyone who pays money and receives a dog that is not what was represented, and the OP alludes that the way it was received/shipped was poor too..then that person ABSOLUTELY deserves to air their grievances in a public review should they choose to.


----------



## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Is germanshephers.com social media? No one is allowed to diss named breeders here.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DaBai said:


> I am in the other camp for this. I think people should leave their valid experiences with the breeder as reviews regardless it being good or bad, if the breeder chooses to use social media to advertise their pups then sure leave the reviews on social media. Or what is the point of review if you are only supposed to post good reviews of a business? If a breeder is generally a good breeder, they will get more good reviews than bad, I mean most long-running business I know of have their shares of bad reviews, but as long as they have more good reviews than bad I would be willing to use their product/service.


Well, it is a free country, and people will do what they want. But if you pay $1500 -$4500 for a dog, and it arrives, healthy and as advertised, the papers in order, and all right with the world, that is what the buyer expects, and 98% of them are not going to write any review unless it is solicited by the breeder. 

It is the human condition. People squeak when they are uncomfortable. And that might be well and good, if we had real penalties about liable and slander, and folks had to prove such claims without a lot of monetary output on the part of the proprietor. There is already a movement of hatred toward the breeders of dogs, and it takes absolutely nothing for folks to take and spread negatives like wildfire, without any proof that any of it is true. I have seen negative reviews where when questioned, the reviewer didn't feel right, or saw grass in the water bowl, or poop on the papers. Puppies poop if you feed them. Yes we do our best to keep it clean, but you can be putting down papers on one side while they are already pooping on the other. It is what it is. 

And, there are no guaranties for problem-free puppy. Yes, yes, it is a given that a good breeder is breeding for temperament and health FIRST. But that doesn't mean that a good breeder will not produce a health problem, or a temperament problem. What is telling is how that breeder manages the situation once a problem is found, and what their future breeding choices are. But a lot of folks are already off and running to their social media outlets long before the breeder has a chance to work through it. At that point the damage is done. Even if the breeder refunds to purchase price, or replaces the puppy and pays all costs of shipping, and veterinary diagnoses and care, all that anyone will remember is that the breeder had this problem and someone was angry about it. 

Even if that someone writes an apology or an wonderful review of how the issue was handled, it will not take off like wildfire, because no one cares if things go right, they are not going to forward and comment with the same rapid vehemence when the individual came on with his problem. 

Social media can put excellent breeders out of business. Then it will be harder for all of us to find awesome specimens of our breed. Breeders will have one litter in three years and just provide puppies to their inner circle. And you folks they don't know, good luck, no one will take a chance on you folks.


----------



## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

selzer said:


> Well, it is a free country, and people will do what they want. But if you pay $1500 -$4500 for a dog, and it arrives, healthy and as advertised, the papers in order, and all right with the world, that is what the buyer expects, and 98% of them are not going to write any review unless it is solicited by the breeder.
> 
> It is the human condition. People squeak when they are uncomfortable. And that might be well and good, if we had real penalties about liable and slander, and folks had to prove such claims without a lot of monetary output on the part of the proprietor. There is already a movement of hatred toward the breeders of dogs, and it takes absolutely nothing for folks to take and spread negatives like wildfire, without any proof that any of it is true. I have seen negative reviews where when questioned, the reviewer didn't feel right, or saw grass in the water bowl, or poop on the papers. Puppies poop if you feed them. Yes we do our best to keep it clean, but you can be putting down papers on one side while they are already pooping on the other. It is what it is.


What one really has to remember is that on sites like Facebook and Yelp a person doesn't even have to have a transaction with business they are reviewing.

I remember hearing about a Doberman breeder who had a scathing and totally fraudulent review left on Yelp. The breeder had never sold a dog to the reviewer and had proof of that. Yelp did not care that the review was fake but for $2000 they would remove it for her. Of course if the reviewer put another one up the breeder would have to pay again to have it reviewed. That's about the time when Yelp lost all credibility with me.


----------



## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Is germanshephers.com social media? No one is allowed to diss named breeders here.


It is not a place where breeders advertise and solicit reviews. Someone runs the board and their rules stand.

When you advertise for FREE on FB, and when you run a website for next to nothing and it get spreads all over the place to increase your business, you have to accept the bad with the benefits. NILIF.

The people who don't think a breeder who is selling pups under 7 weeks should be "reviewed" by their dissatisfied client...what do you suggest? Caveat Emptor, your bad for not researching more, now say nothing because other people in life that have used the review on the net where reviews are requested have been unfair?

As a private firearms instructor I have received plenty of undeserved poor feedback, mostly from people who needed a cert from me to prove training to get a concealed carry and they just weren't safe. They gave bad reviews, I explained and moved on. I have enough of a good following and satisfied customers that it didn't affect me. If I could not weather the good with the bad, I would not take advantage of free widespread advertising on the internet.

I mean, are you suggesting that people that have been genuinely ripped off say nothing because others in life have been unfair to others who didn't deserve it? If you're saying reviewing on the internet should go away and not be allowed, understand that all the free widespread exposure goes away too


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

CometDog said:


> It is not a place where breeders advertise and solicit reviews. Someone runs the board and their rules stand.
> 
> When you advertise for FREE on FB, and when you run a website for next to nothing and it get spreads all over the place to increase your business, you have to accept the bad with the benefits. NILIF.
> 
> ...


Not everyone who is dissed on social media is using social media to advertise. But whatever. People will do what they will do, and the negative will stick as positives roll off. That is the nature of the beast. I don't have to encourage it though. 

As for puppies sold under 8 weeks, it isn't illegal everywhere. And in years past puppies went home regularly at six or seven weeks. But mostly, the time to question the age the pup is going home, is BEFORE you buy the puppy. We are all willing to pull out a cat-o-nine tail and thrash the breeder for selling a pup under eight weeks, but why not thrash the buyer as well? If buyers did their homework, they would turn their backs on breeders who offer puppies for sale too young.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Not all breeders are warm and fuzzy. They may assume buyers are already experienced dog owners. I would never ask a breeder for crating or housebreaking advice because I don’t think it’s their job. I am not criticizing the OP, merely sharing my opinion. I might ask a breeder for training advice because theoretically no one knows her lines like she does. If there was a health problem, and I was sure it was not something environmental, I would talk to the breeder. If I liked a dog and wanted to buy from the breeder agin, I would not say or do anything that might make her wish she had never sold to me. 

This is why, so far, I have always met the breeders I buy from in person, and always at least twice. Once before I purchase and once when I get the dog. I want to know who has been raising my future dog.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> *Not all breeders are warm and fuzzy*. They may assume buyers are already experienced dog owners. I would never ask a breeder for crating or housebreaking advice because I don’t think it’s their job. I am not criticizing the OP, merely sharing my opinion. I might ask a breeder for training advice because theoretically no one knows her lines like she does. If there was a health problem, and I was sure it was not something environmental, I would talk to the breeder. If I liked a dog and wanted to buy from the breeder agin, I would not say or do anything that might make her wish she had never sold to me.
> 
> This is why, so far, I have always met the breeders I buy from in person, and always at least twice. Once before I purchase and once when I get the dog. I want to know who has been raising my future dog.


This is actually a good point. Lots of people get dogs because they like dogs/are more comfortable around dogs than people. I did. I was beyond not liking people, I was afraid of people. I was, painfully shy. 

A funny thing happened though. I could talk to people about the dog, or when I was with the dog, and the focus was on the dog. 

Time marches on. We become breeders of dogs without understanding that breeding is something like 70% people and 30% dogs. Breeders have to develop great human relational skills, mostly with potential buyers, and those who have their dogs, but also with folks that are in the breed, other breeders, trainers, show people, club members. You do no one any favors sitting out on your piece of tundra with your dogs, and selling a litter now and then. You don't train dogs in a vacuum, and if you try to breed them that way, well, you'll probably have more than your fair share of issues with your dogs. 

Not everyone who gets into dogs because they are not comfortable with people are going to let the dogs bring them into the light, so to speak. Some are going to be brusk and isolative. These folks probably shouldn't be breeding, but it is a free country. Many of us probably don't know that we are making terrible mistakes when we are making them. 

I would be very sad if someone was afraid to ask me a question about crate training, or puppy food, or anything else, really. On the other hand, I am single and live alone, which means, my job has to pay for all of our living expenses, so if someone gets me at noon, when I am rushing about getting everyone fed and watered and rushing to get ready for work, I might have to cut a conversation short and offer another time to discuss an issue. We, have lives. And I am sure you can find someone out there that will get butt-hurt about having their issue put on hold so a breeder can go bring home the bacon. And that would fall into unrealistic expectations that people have sometimes. Not every negative review out there is founded on reasonableness.


----------

