# coconut oil allergy?



## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaiser has been itchy since the day he came home. To make a long story short...one of the first common denominators I noticed between the 3 foods he's been on has been chicken. My response to that is to order a chicken- (and chicken fat-) free food (Orijen6fish). He is currently on Orijen LBP until the new food arrives. Within the last week or so, Kaiser has gotten EXTREMELY itchy. Its like his whole body is a "tickle spot" and he is starting to scratch his coat thin in places (inner thighs, legs). He also still has the yeast/staph infection on his body. The only thing different that has been introduced within the last 2 weeks has been coconut oil. Is there a chance he is actually allergic to it (in addition to whatever else has him itching)?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i would have my dog tested for allergies and food allergies.
why guess??


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Its unfortunately not in my budget right now. My brother is getting married (anticipated expenses) and I have some large unexpected expenses that have fallen into my lap this month and next month. If there's a way I can bide some time to save a little money back up, that would be the preferable method. I have to go to the vet tomorrow to get some heart worm preventative, so I will get a quote then, but they charge me for every appointment so I can't bring Kaiser.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Hope this answers your question

A strict Candida elimination diet is no easy task to begin with, but it can be made even harder by something called Candida Die-Off. The point when the die-off symptoms kick in is the time when many people prematurely abandon their Candida diet, so its important to be prepared.
When yeast cells are rapidly killed, a die-off (*or Herxheimer reaction*) occurs and metabolic by-products are released into the body. The Candida yeast cells actually release 79 different toxins when they die, including ethanol and acetaldehyde.

Candida Diet: Candida Die-Off


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Hope this answers your question
> 
> A strict Candida elimination diet is no easy task to begin with, but it can be made even harder by something called Candida Die-Off. The point when the die-off symptoms kick in is the time when many people prematurely abandon their Candida diet, so its important to be prepared.
> When yeast cells are rapidly killed, a die-off (*or Herxheimer reaction*) occurs and metabolic by-products are released into the body. The Candida yeast cells actually release 79 different toxins when they die, including ethanol and acetaldehyde.
> ...



Sooo...is this insane itchiness possibly a reaction to the coconut oil actually working? I did see that the link you provided suggested lowering the dosage of probiotics temporarily: "_Reduce your dosage of probiotics.
A course of good probiotics will repopulate your gut, crowd out the Candida, restore your stomach acidity and boost your immune system. Probiotics are less likely than antifungals to cause Die-Off, but if you start to experience the symptoms you can temporarily reduce your dosage."_


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

What is the coconut oil supposed to do? 
I guess the easiest way to find out if it's the coconut oil is take him off it again and see if he improves.
If you change several things at once you won't know what actually made him itch. Try eliminating one thing after the other.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Maybe it is just the chicken -- hard to think it would be the coconut oil. Why ARE you giving it? He has plenty of fat as it is. I would be more inclined to give good fish oil as that does seem to help with allergies.....but since he is starting on a fish based food soon.......

Flax can cause problems because the whole seed (including the protein containing germ) is ground up but coconut oil is just the oil............my very chicken allergic dog (Toby) could tolerate chicken fat just fine, just not the meat.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

As far as the "why" for the coconut oil...

My trainer has pushed it on me pretty much since the first day we met. I've also seen a lot of people on here recommend it. Kaiser has had itchies ever since I brought him home and recurring ear infections (yeast) as well as on his skin (possibly staph, not sure). A round of antibiotics cleared the first infection up, but then I had people suggest I refrain from putting him on a second round because it would weaken his immune system. 

I had Dakota on Grizzly Salmon Oil so Kaiser also got a squirt a day in his food for his skin/coat since he wasn't on fish based foods. Basically the coconut oil was recommended based on Kaiser's yeast infections and itchy skin.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Mooch said:


> What is the coconut oil supposed to do?
> I guess the easiest way to find out if it's the coconut oil is take him off it again and see if he improves.
> If you change several things at once you won't know what actually made him itch. Try eliminating one thing after the other.


That is where people give up, the coconut oil is being used to kill off a systemic yeast infection and bacteria...the toxins that are released from the die-off are being filtered through the liver, when the liver is overloaded the toxins are eliminated through the skin...essentially the body is healing itself...symptoms worsening are a sign that it is working...it is not an allergic reaction so to speak, it is cleansing reaction...in people that may present as flu like symptoms, I people allergies plug their nose and make them sneeze, in dogs they get itchy...have you had a pimple? a pimple is an example of the body cells removing unwanted bacteria. Eye mucous?, same thing. These toxins have to go somewhere.

Peer Reviewed Research | Coconut Oil

This link provides many many many links to the various attributes, studies etc. on coconut oil.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

That's why I asked what the coconut oil was used for  I had never heard of people feeding it to dogs so I didn't know what it was meant to do.
If it's used to help against his staph/yeast infection then it makes sense to stick with it and see if perhaps lowering the dosage lessens the itchies.
But if it was just fed as a "supplement" for no real reason except someone said it was a good idea (but not to target a specific problem) then I would discontinue using it to see if it' causing the puppy to be itchy.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> Maybe it is just the chicken -- hard to think it would be the coconut oil. Why ARE you giving it? He has plenty of fat as it is. I would be more inclined to give good fish oil as that does seem to help with allergies.....but since he is starting on a fish based food soon.......
> 
> Flax can cause problems because the whole seed (including the protein containing germ) is ground up but coconut oil is just the oil............my very chicken allergic dog (Toby) could tolerate chicken fat just fine, just not the meat.


 
Coconut oil has to be cold pressed (if it is extracted w/chemicals and bleached and heat treated then it becomes a hydroginated oil like margarine and useless and bad for you)...

Flax oil itself is an inactive omega 3, fish oil is an active 3. Flax requires an enzyme that converts the inactive omega 3 into the active form so it can be utilized by the body. Dogs (and some people) don't have the ability to convert this form of 3, making it either useless (unless in seed form for bulk fibre) and/or an inflammatory agent ("allergy"). So many dog foods have flax...which may be the actual common denominator in Kaisers food, not the chicken.

Fish oil is used as it may reduce inflammation, but is good for the heart and the brain.

The coconut oil is treating a systemic yeast infection, the properties in coconut oil (lauric acid) has been proven to work against yeast, it easily digested, it is indicted for the pancreas...and in turn diabetes.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Mooch said:


> That's why I asked what the coconut oil was used for  I had never heard of people feeding it to dogs so I didn't know what it was meant to do.
> If it's used to help against his staph/yeast infection then it makes sense to stick with it and see if perhaps lowering the dosage lessens the itchies.
> But if it was just fed as a "supplement" for no real reason except someone said it was a good idea (but not to target a specific problem) then I would discontinue using it to see if it' causing the puppy to be itchy.


 
Yep...you are absolutely right, cut back on the dosage...the gives the body a chance to eliminate the toxins, and the liver to catch up, sort of like overflowing your sink.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> Sooo...is this insane itchiness possibly a reaction to the coconut oil actually working? I did see that the link you provided suggested lowering the dosage of probiotics temporarily: "_Reduce your dosage of probiotics._
> _A course of good probiotics will repopulate your gut, crowd out the Candida, restore your stomach acidity and boost your immune system. Probiotics are less likely than antifungals to cause Die-Off, but if you start to experience the symptoms you can temporarily reduce your dosage."_


I think what that means is the gut is crowded between the yeast, the die-off, bacteria good and bad...so in essence you don't want to stop the die-off because thats what you set out to do, but you got to keep some good, so perhaps lower, or give away from feeding the oil. 

Another thing to consider is the toxic load on the liver. Treating that once in control of the yeast (the yeast will still be there, but the healthy bacteria will keep it in check)...that can be done w/milk thistle and dandilion (dandilion is a mild diuretic that will help flush the kidneys of toxins the liver can't cope with), using concurrently with your other treatment may or may not be something you want to consider. Milk thistle repairs the cell damage to the liver....but if not, I know this is a lot to take in, all this stuff you never hear from the vet...
So maybe save that for another chapter...


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

I am giving Kaiser 1 Tbsp/day of the coconut oil (its cold pressed/virgin). He LOVES the stuff, but I'll cut it down to 1/2 Tbsp if you think that would be advisable. 

Also, I never got as far as to compare the flax in the foods...so thats a good point...I'll check the other two (Wellness Super5 and Fromm).


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> I am giving Kaiser 1 Tbsp/day of the coconut oil (its cold pressed/virgin). He LOVES the stuff, but I'll cut it down to 1/2 Tbsp if you think that would be advisable.
> 
> Also, I never got as far as to compare the flax in the foods...so thats a good point...I'll check the other two (Wellness Super5 and Fromm).


do 1tsp. am, 1tsp. pm. a tblsp. is 3 tsp. The probiotic is that a 1 a day or two? if 2 then cut to one.
My dog LOVES the stuff too...and teh only thing he will let me near his ears with.

Keep in mind you may have a set back w/his poop, as long as not dehdrated/listless, then consider it normal.

You may want to view forums about die-off in people, then you can put a voice to what he is experiencing...thought?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> do 1tsp. am, 1tsp. pm. a tblsp. is 3 tsp. The probiotic is that a 1 a day or two? if 2 then cut to one.
> My dog LOVES the stuff too...and teh only thing he will let me near his ears with.
> 
> Keep in mind you may have a set back w/his poop, as long as not dehdrated/listless, then consider it normal.
> ...


You know, on second thought and re-reading my post, you may want to give a day or 2 of rest for the liver to catch up...then do dosing as noted above, but alternate days...1 day oil, next day probiotic...for a week or two, and then increase again to daily and then back up to a tblsp. You'll have more success over time...do not need to rush it


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Its actually a "shelf-stable" (supposedly) probiotic; he gets 1 small scoop a day. I'm not sure if I like it, as I haven't really seen much of a difference. I'll cut back!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> Its actually a "shelf-stable" (supposedly) probiotic; he gets 1 small scoop a day. I'm not sure if I like it, as I haven't really seen much of a difference. I'll cut back!


Yeah, I was using a shelf stable one for my dog (no money left over for my needs)...my holistic vet poo poo'd it...said there is no evidence that is active microbial and factor in what component is in there that makes it shelf stable? It's so confusing w/all the various strains why some are w/food and some w/o food....sigh


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

did you switch to a different kind/brand, per your vet?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> did you switch to a different kind/brand, per your vet?


I used up the stable one first, then bought the recommended one...which is "Inno-Vite" DDS acidiophilus...2.5 billion of lactobacillus...DDS strain-1 (dds part is registered trade mark for this company).

Anyhow Guarantee's 2.5 billion active cells up to "expiry" of product.

Some labels read 2.5 (or 5 or 10) billion at time of packaging...

I have yto admit I have been negligent in giving as in fridge and not with food so i forget...but been consistant lately anyway...

Also note the brand is part of the "yeast buster" kit (but don't think have a systemic yeast problem...no smell anyhow, may have been the start of one and has reolved w/feeding and d-zymes for IB)


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

I'll look into that after I'm done with what I have. I admit, one of the most attractive things about the tub I'm currently using is that it will last for a few months (at least). I'm sure anything that is refrigerated will have a much shorter life span (probably good, as far as providing the best supplements...probably bad because my guess is its more expensive).

Oh, I have children's liquid benedryl here at home...would you recommend me giving Kaiser some to help ease his crazed itching? If so, how much would you recommend dosage-wise (he's probably about 63lbs now). If not, what (if anything) would you recommend?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I would avoid benedryl for kids liquid because of the artifical sweeteners.

Adult tablets, but they have red dye

Natural solution would be tea's the contain quercetin, but I fail to see him sipping w/a biscuit...although you could try, might drink...

Or he can take quercetin...site helps break down human dosing

Natural Solutions for Dogs with Allergies by Jeanie Marie Kraft, M.S., LicAc

Quercetin: 
The Pawsitive Bioflavonoid​Quercetin is a wonderful supple-ment for dogs, cats or humans suffering from allergies or asthma. Quercetin is a bioflavonoid (or flavonoid), which is a type pigment found in almost all herbs, fruits, and vegetables. It is also an anti-oxidant. a natural anti-histamine, and anti-inflammatory supplement
Research has shown that Quercetin’s antihistamine action may help to relieve allergy symptoms and asthma symptoms. Quercetin helps treat allergies by blocking the secretion of histamine in the body. Histamine is what causes inflammation and swelling. The symptoms of a histamine reaction can be stuffy nose, itchy eyes, sneezing, itchy or red skin, runny eyes and more. The anti-inflammatory properties may help to reduce pain from disorders such as arthritis.
Quercetin supplements are also available in concentrated powders and tablet or capsule form. It is often packaged with bromelain (an enzyme found in pineapple), another substance that has been found useful for treatment of allergies and inflammation, which is thought to increase the absorption of Quercetin.
Choose a brand that contains bromelain in capsules, which makes it easy to break one apart and sprinkle on your dog’s food.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I would have an allergy test done. Raina is allergic to Palm - so that includes coconuts or palm oil. She is also allergic to many other things including most grain and some airborne stuff. I got an antiseptic by Virbac called Resi Keto Chlor that really seems to help the itchy spots. I just put it on a damp sponge and put it on the itchy spots in between baths. After baths I put it right on her wet skin and let it dry. It works wonders for those spots. I use Allermyl shampoo with chlorhexidine for bathing - it helps a lot. I also use Epi Soothe conditioner because giving her a bath every other weekend was drying her skin and coat and since I started using that her coat is back to being shiny again. Overall it took me months to find all the allergens and eliminate them. We changed food, places we train, all kinds of things.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

An allergy test is definitely a priority, though I'll need to save up for it once I get a quote from the vet. I swear Kaiser (and Dakota) get better attention than I give myself!


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Kaiser2012 said:


> An allergy test is definitely a priority, though I'll need to save up for it once I get a quote from the vet. I swear Kaiser (and Dakota) get better attention than I give myself!


I don't know about where you are but the cost of the allergy tests have gone down some in the last year but still cost me $276 for the test. I also bought the auto immune shots formulated for her specially for airborne allergens which cost $117 including the syringes and extra needles. I've had pretty good luck with the shots working so far. I'm at the end of the 4 month first trial right now and they are suggesting I get one more vial to keep giving her shots every 21 days. All this after her being fine for 3 years with no allergies whatsoever then suddenly it happened that she was allergic to almost everything in the food I had been giving her (now switched to Innova Prime Grain free Salmon and Herring). I know it can happen but this is the first dog it happened to me with.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

I live in a tourist area where pretty much everything is expensive  At least, compared to other parts of the state. I dont think I've ever walked out of the office for less than 80 for a basic visit, and that doesn't include any medications. I'm not sure if that's expensive or not though.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Kaiser2012 said:


> I live in a tourist area where pretty much everything is expensive  At least, compared to other parts of the state. I dont think I've ever walked out of the office for less than 80 for a basic visit, and that doesn't include any medications. I'm not sure if that's expensive or not though.


Yes, we are an island tourist area also. No mainland benefits here. I don't know if what I paid is more or less than others on the mainland, maybe someone will chime in on their costs in what I like to call "the real world". We visited the Outer Banks many years ago - it's a beautiful area.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

I just saw where you were...the Keys, oh yeah, definitely a tourist destination  I was unable to make it to the vet today, so I'll have to go tomorrow. It blows my mind in some areas where people can make a trip to the vet for under 30!


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Kaiser2012 said:


> I just saw where you were...the Keys, oh yeah, definitely a tourist destination  I was unable to make it to the vet today, so I'll have to go tomorrow. It blows my mind in some areas where people can make a trip to the vet for under 30!


But then they don't get to live on the ocean in a remote place either!


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

hmmm, quite true


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

pyratemom said:


> I don't know about where you are but the cost of the allergy tests have gone down some in the last year but still cost me $276 for the test. I also bought the auto immune shots formulated for her specially for airborne allergens which cost $117 including the syringes and extra needles. I've had pretty good luck with the shots working so far. I'm at the end of the 4 month first trial right now and they are suggesting I get one more vial to keep giving her shots every 21 days. *All this after her being fine for 3 years with no allergies whatsoever then suddenly it happened that she was allergic to almost everything in the food I had been giving her* (now switched to Innova Prime Grain free Salmon and Herring). I know it can happen but this is the first dog it happened to me with.


Goning to sound like a broken record, but was she vaccinated yearly?


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

GatorBytes said:


> Goning to sound like a broken record, but was she vaccinated yearly?


If you mean the regular rabies, parvo, etc. yes every year. For allergies, no.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Well, I took Kaiser in to the vet. Told the vet that I had him on coconut and salmon oil as well as Orijen LBP. I mentioned that i was waiting for the 6 fish to get in, because it didn't have any chicken, and that I was hoping that might solve his itchies. The vet agreed with my plan and said we could hold off of the allergy test until after we figure out if the 6fish fixes the problem. I also mentioned my less than spectacular vet visit with a different vet...you know, the whole bringing Kaiser in for an injured elbow (that he ignored, more or less) and for a yeast/staph infection that he also ignored, and where instead he treated for ear mites. My vet looked at me funny and said he was shocked, that it was obvious Kaiser had both a yeast and staph infection (puppy acne, basically) and he said that ear mites in dogs were rare (unless they came into direct contact with an animal that had them, such as a cat...and my indoor cat is ear-mite-free). At any rate, he gave me meds for Kaiser's yeast infection and antibiotics for the staph. He also gave me an antihistamine for Kaiser itching (he was already itching his armpits raw). I pulled back on the coconut and salmon oil though because a day before Kaiser's appointment (thursday) and a day before his new food came in, he got the goopy poopies. Like, chocolate pudding  I didn't have any canned pumpkin, but I added the probiotics and removed the oils because I figured the oils would be too much on his system). He is still have tummy troubles, and I need to get pumpkin today, so if it doesnt work by tomorrow I'll have to do some white rice to help settle him out. I was going to transition him over to the 6fish slowly, but with his tummy troubles, do you think, if the pumpkin and/or bland rice/kibble or rice/boiled chicken helps settle things, that I could just transition him directly onto the new kibble? I've already cut out all other things chicken...though...as far as allergies go, (assuming processed chicken is an issue) do you think the bland chicken (and rice) would be ok to give? I mean, Dakota is allergic to processed beef (in kibble) but she can eat raw beef just fine. Same with chicken based kibbles...they are a no-go, but raw is fine.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I said that would happen it is the body eliminating toxins...let the goopy poopies run it's coarse...the best thing for diarrhea is to rest the digestive system...NO food for couple days (it harder for you then him)...then bland diet to ease back in, and then start the oils again from the beginning and work up...antibiotocs are going to make belly pproblems worse...probiotic away from meds. Yeast meds only work temp. figuring out why the yeasst proliferated in first place...then you solve the dillema


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> I said that would happen it is the body eliminating toxins...let the goopy poopies run it's coarse...the best thing for diarrhea is to rest the digestive system...NO food for couple days (it harder for you then him)...then bland diet to ease back in, and then start the oils again from the beginning and work up...antibiotocs are going to make belly pproblems worse...probiotic away from meds. Yeast meds only work temp. figuring out why the yeasst proliferated in first place...then you solve the dillema


Dilemma...I swear the advent of spellcheck has atrophied the brain...I used to be a really good at spelling...however, my typing not so good.

I had to get my doggie out so I thru that at you real fast...

My book says (as every book I have read and my Vets have advised)...Let a mild case of diarrhea run it's course...it's the body's way of cleaning out toxins, bacteria, and other foreign invaders...stick to liquid diet for 24 hrs. to let the bowel rest...make him some veg or chicken broth...you can use the leftovers for next two days to reintroduce the food!
Slippery elm bark is soothing to the G.I. will help with protect lining from toxins being re-absorbed back into the blood


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

the only reason I went to the vet is because some of the issues were occurring prior to the use of the coconut oil. He was literally scratching himself raw and benedryl wasn't helping, nor was the topical soothing ointments I tried  I'll let his tummy rest and then restart everything as you suggested.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Antibiotics have their place, they will assist w/the bacterial co-infection going on. Plus you are already armed with info and probiotics and the inside track to assist him in his detox...So he is better off then most that go thru the drug cycle over and over w/steroids compromising an already fragile immune system...

On another note: Yeast infections are related to the thyroid, the thyroid is part of the endocrine/immune system. Vaccines have a direct/indirect influence in the thyroid. Curing a yeast infection doesn't stop w/just fixing what looks like a topical problem...but for now, address what you can...but if your planning on vax. at 1 yr. I want you to stop and reconsider...have lots of stuff on that for you to consider...as well, yeast feeds on sugars, sugers = carbohydrates, carbs come in many forms...not just grains...potatoes, carrots, fruits.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Regardless of thyroid status, GSDs are susceptible to yeast infections. 

Some also do not handle oils very well. Some dogs also do not handle pumpkin very well! So watch for sweeping generalities, they may not apply to your dog. 

Have you tried any of the limited ingredient kibbles?


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

LisaT said:


> Regardless of thyroid status, GSDs are susceptible to yeast infections.
> 
> Some also do not handle oils very well. Some dogs also do not handle pumpkin very well! So watch for sweeping generalities, they may not apply to your dog.
> 
> Have you tried any of the limited ingredient kibbles?



Not yet, he's only 6 months old (omg...he will be 7 months this friday! ack!) and he's been on 3 different kibbles (4 now, with the very recent introduction of the 6fish). He was on the first for about a month but it was easy to tell he didn't like it, so after that bag I went to fromm. He did "ok" on fromm, but continued to itch and still wasnt super excited about food. After a couple months I switched to orijen lbp and he goes baserk for his food now. He loves it. I can even use it as treats. But, the itching persists. So basically what I was trying to say was he was on each food (at least the last 2) long enough to give his body time to adjust. If the 6fish doesn't show improvement after a month or so, Kaiser will go in for an allergy test and then we will go from there (ie. ltd ingredient food, if its a food allergy).


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Antibiotics have their place, they will assist w/the bacterial co-infection going on. Plus you are already armed with info and probiotics and the inside track to assist him in his detox...So he is better off then most that go thru the drug cycle over and over w/steroids compromising an already fragile immune system...
> 
> On another note: Yeast infections are related to the thyroid, the thyroid is part of the endocrine/immune system. Vaccines have a direct/indirect influence in the thyroid. Curing a yeast infection doesn't stop w/just fixing what looks like a topical problem...but for now, address what you can...but if your planning on vax. at 1 yr. I want you to stop and reconsider...have lots of stuff on that for you to consider...as well, yeast feeds on sugars, sugers = carbohydrates, carbs come in many forms...not just grains...potatoes, carrots, fruits.


oops, just saw this. Yes, he's supposedly slated for a booster at 1 year, but after that I only plan on doing the rabies every 3 and the other boosters probably around every 2-3 as well. Dakota hasn't had anything but rabies in the last 3 years (she will be 7 soon)


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> oops, just saw this. Yes, he's supposedly slated for a booster at 1 year, but after that I only plan on doing the rabies every 3 and the other boosters probably around every 2-3 as well. Dakota hasn't had anything but rabies in the last 3 years (she will be 7 soon)


My dog hasn't been vaccinated since Jan. 2008, nor has he had heartworm prevention since sept. 2008...Jan. 2009 is when I went to see a holistic (integrative Vet) who squashed my concerns with both...

I doubt your dog is allergic to his food...intollerance is more appropriate. By fixing the gut (from mouth to butt), is when you will see improvement...inflammatory markers are things that are not biologically available to the dog, like rice, wheat, and other crabs. High glycemic foods like potatoes cause spikes in insulin - yeast and bad bateria thrive on these foods. Then there is the man-made allergic diseases...delivered in vaccines...these are grown/incubated on egg fetisis and beef marrow, hence why sooo many dogs are intollerant to noted. I had a friend, a nurse...she had to be vaccinated w/annual flu as partof her job...she is now severely allergic to eggs - throat closes up, face balloons, hives break out...

Here is a blogger who provides great info on the business of vaccines...click on his blue underlined links...one to consider is how vets are taught to "boost profits"

- Terrierman's Daily Dose -

Grain free L.I.D.'s are high in carbs,, low in protein and well, never worked for my dog


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Home

Yeast treatments

above is a neatly packaged easy to read info that better explains what I was saying about die-off as well as other info and including support for the toxin overload on th eliver and kidney's


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks for the links!! Around here, we have HORRIBLE mosquitoes so I'd be terrified to take my dogs of heartworm preventative. In addition to Heartguard, I use a topical (AdvantixII) that supposedly helps against mosquitoes (supposedly...) but only in the summer months. I also use a topical herbal spray if I know we are going to be out after a rain or for a significant amount of time around dawn/dusk. They actually spray for mosquitoes here on a county-wide basis, multiple times a year, because the bugs are so bad. Heck, I can use Deep Woods Off with enough Deet to grow an extra arm on myself and they will STILL eat me alive 

Well, Kaiser is having odd tummy troubles now. I'm pretty sure the antibiotics aren't helping...but sometimes his poos are semi-firm, and other times they are like pudding. Same food, same routine, nothing changes. I just made some rice and cut down his kibble portion in half for breakfast...hoping less food in his stomach, mixed with something bland, will be easier to digest. I just want his stomach to settle so that he's actually getting the proper nutrients from his food, instead of just, well, losing them all when he goes #2


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

Are you giving him the probiotics while he's getting his antibiotics?
(The probiotic I use is protexin and it specifically states to not use it in conjunction with antibiotics but to use it straight after the course has finished)
A bland diet is probably not a bad idea for your little guy, sometimes I do wonder if all the stuff we feed them isn't just to rich for them.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

I was, thinking that it might help...but I'll stop! I agree on the rich comment too...Dakota doesn't do well on rich foods. Kaiser LOVES...and I mean LOVES...his current food, but I dunno. I just want to find something that his stomach loves too, lol.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

There is some that you can use while taking antibiotics - I had some prescribed for me by my doctor when I needed antibiotics so it might be worth checking the label on yours to see if it mentions anything about it 
So much of the food stuff is trial and error, what works brilliant for one dog can be terrible with another.
I do hope you get him right, he's such a cutie


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Look at the belly like a war going on...

The body has an inherent ability to recognize what doesn't belong and it has shown you that via the skin eruptions. 
Pathogenic invaders are "opportunists" that found weakness and are trying to take over. So they join forces with bad bacteria to form a united front
You bring in the army of medicine, good bacteria, coconut oil and nutrition...
But the pathogen isn't going down w/o a fight, so it releases toxins to further degrade the immune system
So the body fights back and starts eliminating it (via the digestive tract), the body is winning, the pathogens and their chemicals are being taken down...
So you put food in thinking oh...well the body needs strength...however you just fed the enemy and gave them strength too, so now the army is getting tired...they won't give up, they need time to regroup and start all over...

Keep giving probiotics even if only a tiny bit gets in they multiply too leaving no room for the bad to proliferate. The problem w/the abx. is it destroys the good as well, the only negative impact this has is on your wallet...give you give on an empty stomach away from food/meds. then it is helping. There is no instant resolution like taking and asprin for a headache...you have to be methodical about when...you feed him meds. w/food (likely), then figure out the medabolic life of the abx. if stays in system 4 hrs. with food but is gone 4 hrs. before next fedding then that's when you jam in the probiotic...

It's not about what, it's about when...and rest the system...make that good wholesome bone stock I sent you...THAT will provide nutrients you are afraid he isn't getting.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

The vet did mention that the antibiotics needed to be fed with food, or it could produce either vomiting or diarrhea (or apparently worse upset?)...the other stuff can be given at any point during the day, but I just administer both at once, during breakfast and dinner. 

I guess I'm still not sure if I'm completely overwhelming his system or not. Do you know why he might have good poops one time and goopy poops the next, without any rhyme or reason? (I mean, obviously something is going on...but I can't figure out what). I thought maybe it was from the coconut oil (being too rich, or too much) but he was having goopy poops even after the meals that didn't have it added (I know it takes time for the food to move through the system, so it could be the previous night's food he's getting rid of...so even considering that, there still isn't any pattern).


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The stool you see after a meal isn't from that meal...it's from the meal before. Are you giving probiotics? Rule of thumb is take the probiotics at least 2 hours after the antibiotics. Granted, you are going to kill them off with the next dose of antibiotics but it does help balance the system. Then after the antibiotics are finished, I like to follow up with 2-4 weeks of probiotics to fully repopulate the system.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thats what I was trying to say, but my brain is mush from work yesterday and this morning, lol. I think I need an english ninja, just to edit my posts before I make them  At any rate, I'll start doing the probiotics a couple hours after each meal. They are in a powder form though...so how would you recommend I administer them? With a little kibble?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mix them in a little yogurt and let it sit for a few minutes to room temperature. That's how Carmen recommends hers.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

That would definitely work! He loves plain yogurt


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

just say NO to yogurt !

Yogurt is a simple sugar (made from milk, milk has lactose, lactose is a sugar).

You are fighting a yeast condition...yeast feeds on sugars.

get some ground beef, chicken or turkey, portion out (freeze if you have to, thaw a few days worth) and put the probiotic in the center and roll into little meatballs! RAW...he'll love you even more

Stop worrying about bulking his stool

Activated Charcoal - help his belly and remove toxins, also away from meds. as it will take that along too


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The sun is shining and the sky has a few clouds in it today.


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

lol ah so confusing! 

I'm about 100% positive he would LOVE raw...but if his tummy is anything like Dakota's, he won't be able to handle red meats right off the bat.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Kaiser2012 said:


> lol ah so confusing!
> 
> I'm about 100% positive he would LOVE raw...but if his tummy is anything like Dakota's, he won't be able to handle red meats right off the bat.


chicken or turkey, and it's just a small meatball, the natural enzymes in the meat will help his belly


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

sounds good!


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