# Need some advice on fuss positioning



## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Hey all, so my girl, Uma is now a one year old and I'm getting more formal in training. Just sent off for her scorebook so will hopefully try for the BH this spring (if I get the book back anytime soon and it hasn't gotten too hot already by the time I do).
Anyway I am having some issues with heel position, not the end of the world but want some outside opinions. She heels very nicely, has had awesome eye contact from the get go (all her I think it's just natural for her). Here are my 2 issues, she tends to wrap and swing her butt out. I do not use an ecollar as I have never really learned to and don't want to use it incorrectly. She loves to work for a toy or food, she works more excitedly for a toy (ball or tug doesn't matter). Any suggestions for correcting this?
The other is that sometimes when she's really ramped up she will heel along with her head leveled out. The way a dog looks when stalking prey or herding if that makes sense. She has done this since she was 8 weeks old, it's just natural I think when she wants to really focus she gets in this position. 
I'll see if I can get someone to video the herding head thing just for fun. It does crack people up when she does it. One of the first times we sent her into a blind she locked into this crouch thing and then start doing the head tilt thing when the helper started shaking with laughter. 
I tell you, this dog is just the light of my life and makes me laugh all day long. If I pass her SchH1 without the judge belly laughing at us it will be all I wish for .


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

How do you reward her? Is there a lure? If so how do you hold it and how do you deliver it?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I've tried a few ways to reward her. When I have food, I have just had it in a pouch and rewarded at random intervals, or I tried holding it in my left hand and held it out to position her head thereby lining up her body more correctly. That worked pretty well but I'm not sure if it is a good long term thing?
With a tug I can tuck it under my right armpit angled down so when I go to reward her I can grab the toy from behind my back with my left hand. This is good right now since I'm wearing a coat and you can't really see the toy, but once it gets warm there will be no way to hide it. 
The ball on a rope I can put over my shoulder so the ball is hanging down my back. This is the worst since she gets over excited about it, I guess since she can see the rope part.


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## Andy-jr. (Mar 1, 2010)

This is what a I use and I like it because it rewards in the back so your dog is not wrapped in front of you waiting for the toy to come out for the reward. It is a self rewarding system so the dog learns to stay back to get the toy. There is a video on the site to watch also. I have this system and the MCRS system and the Top-Matic magnets are twice as strong. 

Top-Matic - How to use


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Sounds like she is wrapping is because of the tug on the right. I was taught to lure with food where you want your head to be. If the dog is expecting the reward to come from the right or can see the reward on your right, she is going to wrap. I have seen those at my club who train with a toy hold it out to their left side to align the dog properly and then after they are consistent they tuck the reward under the left arm. 

I allowed Bison to practice the wrapping type heeling for so long that it is normal position for him. With his high drive and low threshold, it works well for me to allow him to carry the toy in his mouth while we heel and make the interaction the reward. This makes him back off a bit and I am practicing this over and over again and it has loosened the crowding quite a bit.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Andy-jr. said:


> This is what a I use and I like it because it rewards in the back so your dog is not wrapped in front of you waiting for the toy to come out for the reward. It is a self rewarding system so the dog learns to stay back to get the toy. There is a video on the site to watch also. I have this system and the MCRS system and the Top-Matic magnets are twice as strong.
> 
> Top-Matic - How to use


That is pretty cool! I like that you can use it in the blind too.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think heeling style depends a lot on the dog. None of my four dogs will heel the way I would picture as my *ideal* in my mind, and it's not really issues with drive or training. Nikon wraps quite a bit for my taste (other people say it's not bad) and at this point I just let it be, as long as he's under control, following my turns and pace changes, and showing enthusiasm for the work. Pan's heeling is the closest to what I'd ideally like but I don't know if that's b/c of how I trained it or because of who he is or both. As a puppy we did perch work and short heeling in steps, often one step at a time, plus heeling backwards so he developed a good understanding of the position and how his own body moves. I also started doing this Michael Ellis thing (I have nothing against him but am not one of those ME fans) where I'm doing even more training with Pan to show him to move with my *left* leg, so we do exercises where if my right leg steps forward, he doesn't move, but if my left left steps forward, he repositions. Same with stepping backward right or left. For him, eye contact, enthusiasm, and having endurance to heel for the long BH is not the problem I just want to maintain the precision and have a complete understanding that "fuss" means heel position not just going for a walk forwards. Most of his heeling beyond those position exercises has been prong collar paired with praise/verbal cues and then we finish with releasing him to tug (either on a tug or a ball, but he tugs with me I don't usually just throw it or drop it and let him take it).


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

If the initial focus, fuss position is not correct from the get go, the dog will not be correct.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

When I fuss at them I like to lean over them a bit and maybe stomp a foot here and there... I really bear down on them, and often I shake one finger while pointing in a vigorous manner. Eyebrow placement is also important part of the position. I keep mine low and heavy.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

hunterisgreat said:


> When I fuss at them I like to lean over them a bit and maybe stomp a foot here and there... I really bear down on them, and often I shake one finger while pointing in a vigorous manner. Eyebrow placement is also important part of the position. I keep mine low and heavy.


 


Will you be at the SE regionals to demonstrate? You can do your IPO1 there!


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

My dog had this issue he started to wrap even though I had been so particular about making sure he understood the position. Of course with wrapping the butt sticks out. I was rewarding in the wrong spot. I was trying to reward directly above the dogs head thinking this would keep him straight. Then it was pointed out to actually reward to the outside of the dogs head so the head turns out for the reward and the butt swings in. The more I did this the better his position has become just through anticipating the reward. Basically if your dog is sitting in heel (and I practised this alot because he was so used to jumping up and grabbing the reward right above that he near took my hand out a couple times once I had changed position of the reward) I position the reward just behind and slightly out from the dogs outer ear at head level. Then from sit I practised his taking the reward. You want the dog to just turn the head to the left and the reward is right there. No jumping and turn or anything. With my old reward placement my dog was jumping and turning in so very bad for trying to maintain his position the anticipation causes the butt to go out. It took a while for me and my dog to get used to it I would often accidently pop it upward instead of leaving it level. That is why I practised so much just from a sit so he could get used to the turning his head to the left action. I have been doing it for about 3 weeks maybe and his position has improved he is actually where I want him to be.


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