# formal heeling



## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Hi,
Jake is now 6 months old and I am very interested in SCH...
Jake is doing great at a informal heel and I need some help how to get him to begin looking upwards. I have tried treats and toys but after a step or two I lose him. I also am concerned that I may cause confusion, as I want him in a informal heel to take walks but yet learn the formal heel. Am I asking too much?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Having a formal competition heel and an informal loose lead walk is very common, and not asking too much at all. You just need to make it clear to the dog in each case which is desired (I recommend 2 different commands) and reward according to your expectations.

On teaching a formal focused heel, do you have a club you are working with? This is something that is MUCH easier to demonstrate and then coach when being able to see the dog and handler than to explain in print on the internet. There are many subtle things that need to be attended too as they can significantly impact the final product, and common mistakes that need to be avoided, so some personal one-on-one work with a trainer to help you really is the way to go.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I plan on bringing him next month to the club 2 hours south of here. The weather this summer was soooo brutal I though it behooved us to wait it out. I have never been to a club before so this is frightening. Jake is in obedience class here in town and does amazing. I work with him all the time and he really does well if I use the flirt pole as his motivator to do sit/stays and down/stays. He would do a headstand if he could for a chance to chase the flirt pole. So, I am using it a good bit in my training.


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## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

I recommend Michael Ellis' Focused heeling. But I would work on increasing focus before working on formal heeling. I used Ellis' videos on food and tug training as my dogs foundation, and I had great sucess with them.


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

cindy_s said:


> I recommend Michael Ellis' Focused heeling. But I would work on increasing focus before working on formal heeling. I used Ellis' videos on food and tug training as my dogs foundation, and I had great sucess with them.


 Agreed. Anything Michael Ellis says should be imprinted on your brain.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, when you say focus, when?


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Focus, or attention training. When you ask you dog to "Look" or "Watch" he understands to look you in the face regardless of distractions. 

This is Argos working on attention in a group at 6 months. You will start with attention in front, and then move it to the side and other different positions.


















You have to take formal heeling slowly. It involves ALOT of rewards, and may it's only 1 step to start with. I like the Mohnwiese site with the free heeling method. It's step by step and with videos. von-der-mohnwiese (Click training on the left, English, and then free heeling) I also agree though that working with a club to have experienced people help you is also very helpful.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Agree with JKlatsky as usual 

At the minimum the pup should give you at least 30 seconds of strong, undivided focus in basic heel position (sitting by your left leg) before you take a step forwards. You can proof the focus against distraction by waving a ball or a piece of food around him. In my opinion, you can never have do enough work on focus and if you have good focus, heeling is easy and you will be able to progress very fast (go from a few steps to heeling 30-40 steps) in a short period of time. If the focus is not good, then it's a nightmare because you will be fighting this issue (dog dropping his head, dog getting distracted, dog lagging) all the way from step 1 to step 100 and beyond.

I did this with Ike a lot when he was young. Just have him in heel position and do lots of static focus work.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you are planning to train with a club, I'd focus on the informal walking for now and wait until you are with the club. There's many methods of training the formal competition heel (or most of us use a combination of methods) and those who know your dog and his temperament are probably better at helping you decide which to use. For example even among those that use primarily rewards, there's freeshaping vs. luring, where the reward is held and how it is delivered, etc.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Ok, what do you do IF he loses focus (drops head, get distracted), do you verbally correct and then regain focus? This is where I am having trouble with focus. I think you both are very dead on with I need more focus work. Any ideas to keep it exciting....I work with his other commands while we use a flirt pole, it works amazing....can I use the pole for focus work as well or will that make him too excited and harder to regain his attention? Is isn't a food or toy driven boy....although since teething he likes to play a lot more and we have begun tugging with he seems to enjoy almost as much as the pole.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

A lot of times the trick is timing, both timing the mark/reward and also knowing the dog's limit so you are challenging him a *little* bit each time but not so long that you lose the focus. In the training phase I don't like to have to use corrections to get the behavior consistently. I might add them in later on especially if the dog is not mature yet. I'm trying to remember how my obedience (not SchH) instructor had us do it, she had a set formula like do it 5 times in a row without losing focus and then add another second to the time...but make sure the dog is doing it at that length consistently before adding more time and/or distraction.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

It's like what Lies said - there are a couple of different ways you can teach this. My way with Ike was based on getting "true" attention from the beginning (looking at me). But you can also teach this by holding a ball high up on your left shoulder and have the dog focused on the ball (and then later on work on fading out the ball). If he likes to eat, you can use food in your left hand to keep his head high. You just have to experiment to see what works best. But regardless of what method you pick, still keep working on focus. It will come in handy in all aspects of obedience.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Okay, I will concentrate way more on focus.....makes perfect sense that I need him to focus on me BEFORE I can ask him to heel in that position. The rest of his obedience is coming along really well, his sit/down/stays on 30 ft lead with distraction are going really awesome....I guess I have been focused more on other things when really focus is most important.

I knew you guys would be so helpful. THANKS! 


I


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As Jason said there are two different ways to teach focus. I prefer to teach my dog to focus on me to gain reward (either food, praise or toy) and later to avoid correction Vs. teaching them to focus on a lure. I do this by rewarding a puppy with a marker and food when the pup looks at my face. Then I ask for longer focus, mark the behavior and only reward every few times. I start this in the front position and then later move it into basic. 

For heeling I teach two things. First that moving with me and being by my side gains reward. Second that the dog can move with me while giving focus. The latter is not achieved in a day and can take longer with some dogs.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I teach focus and heel position as two differen things, and only bring them together once the dog is proficient in both. I start focus on my face using markers/clicker, gradually increasing duration and distraction. I start in front, then in basic position, then mix it up to a variety of positions and orientations of dog to handler.

Heel position I teach using luring, usually with food, in order to build the muscle memory in the dog.

Then once the dog understands focus and knows some heeling, I bring the two together, gradually transitioning away from the dog following the food lure to focusing on my face, while maintaining position.

Don't have any videos, but here's some photos of my puppy that sort of illustrate the steps. These are a few months old.. really need to get some new ones. I don't think I have any of her doing focus from basic (heel) position, but we did a LOT of that before I incorporated it into heel.

Learning focus (regardless of position).















http://wildhauskennels.com/dogs/Heidi/heidi52.jpg


Food lure to teach heel position. Taught completely separate.









Putting it together. There is still food in my left hand so I can reward quickly after I mark the behavior, but notice she's ignoring that and no longer following the food as a lure but rather focusing on my face.


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## cindy_s (Jun 14, 2009)

I would like to add one more thought. Your dog is a 6 month old puppy. Expecting long periods of focus and heeling is probably too much to ask. I was blessed with a naturally focused, over achiever in Ruger. I was doing AKC with him and he got his CGC at 7 months with no problems. He then got the first 2 legs of his RN by 11 months. He finished his RN 2 months later, because there were no shows in between. What I was left with was a burned out dog that HATED anything that had to do with obedience. I ruined a perfectly good dog by putting too much pressure on him at too young an age. He was bright and quick, and he could master anything with 3 reps. It was all my fault, and I killed his drives with too much pressure. I'm just beginning to rework him in the manner that I brought my puppy up on. He might be able to get his BH, but he will never be the dog he was ment to be. That being said, I was ultra careful with my puppy. She is just as bright and quick as he was, but I did no formal obedience with her until she was 12 months old. I did a ton of socialization with her. I taught her basic commands. I built a very strong bond with her. And, I worked very heavily on focus training. After 2 1/2 months of formal training, I'm certain that she could pass her BH with no problems. But, I'm not even going to be looking for a trial until the spring. I'm probably too careful with her, but I do not want to ruin another very promising dog by putting too many demands on her at a young age. 
Time will tell, but I think the approach I followed with Cues is much better in the long run. If I were you, I would forget about the formal obedience for now. I would be interested in others thoughts about this.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

cindy_s said:


> I would like to add one more thought. Your dog is a 6 month old puppy. Expecting long periods of focus and heeling is probably too much to ask. I was blessed with a naturally focused, over achiever in Ruger. I was doing AKC with him and he got his CGC at 7 months with no problems. He then got the first 2 legs of his RN by 11 months. He finished his RN 2 months later, because there were no shows in between. What I was left with was a burned out dog that HATED anything that had to do with obedience. I ruined a perfectly good dog by putting too much pressure on him at too young an age. He was bright and quick, and he could master anything with 3 reps. It was all my fault, and I killed his drives with too much pressure. I'm just beginning to rework him in the manner that I brought my puppy up on. He might be able to get his BH, but he will never be the dog he was ment to be. That being said, I was ultra careful with my puppy. She is just as bright and quick as he was, but I did no formal obedience with her until she was 12 months old. I did a ton of socialization with her. I taught her basic commands. I built a very strong bond with her. And, I worked very heavily on focus training. After 2 1/2 months of formal training, I'm certain that she could pass her BH with no problems. But, I'm not even going to be looking for a trial until the spring. I'm probably too careful with her, but I do not want to ruin another very promising dog by putting too many demands on her at a young age.
> Time will tell, but I think the approach I followed with Cues is much better in the long run. If I were you, I would forget about the formal obedience for now. I would be interested in others thoughts about this.


I agree with this. Tag is 6.5 months old and can do nothing formally. He's learned a lot about moving his body, a lot of focus training, and how to play with me. He works on heeling but only as a lured position, teaching him how to move there. All the beginning stuff is about learning how to move into different positions and playing.

I find that you have to work on pieces, and then it all just sort of comes together later on...


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Another tip that might be useful is to teach a finish first. I've been working on Frag's heel work a lot lately and he's doing great, but the finish is what started us. (no pun intended!)

I taught the right finish first to help him understand the position. He picked that up in a day or two, but weeks later is still using the wall, which I'm trying to get away from. But, after these weeks, he can now finish right, hold attention for about a minute, and take 1-2 steps forward while holding attention. He often gets distracted by my feet moving and looks down, but the second he looks back up I C/T. Something to keep in mind when you start moving with him, is to always step off on the same foot. I don't know if there is a specific foot you should, but I always step off with my left foot, and if I don't, Frag lags behind. He uses my left leg as a marker for the finish and to begin, so if that doesn't start going, he doesn't, leaving him behind a step.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I would like to add one more thought. Your dog is a 6 month old puppy. Expecting long periods of focus and heeling is probably too much to ask. I was blessed with a naturally focused, over achiever in Ruger. I was doing AKC with him and he got his CGC at 7 months with no problems. He then got the first 2 legs of his RN by 11 months. He finished his RN 2 months later, because there were no shows in between. What I was left with was a burned out dog that HATED anything that had to do with obedience. I ruined a perfectly good dog by putting too much pressure on him at too young an age. He was bright and quick, and he could master anything with 3 reps. It was all my fault, and I killed his drives with too much pressure. I'm just beginning to rework him in the manner that I brought my puppy up on. He might be able to get his BH, but he will never be the dog he was ment to be. That being said, I was ultra careful with my puppy. She is just as bright and quick as he was, but I did no formal obedience with her until she was 12 months old. I did a ton of socialization with her. I taught her basic commands. I built a very strong bond with her. And, I worked very heavily on focus training. After 2 1/2 months of formal training, I'm certain that she could pass her BH with no problems. But, I'm not even going to be looking for a trial until the spring. I'm probably too careful with her, but I do not want to ruin another very promising dog by putting too many demands on her at a young age. 
Time will tell, but I think the approach I followed with Cues is much better in the long run. If I were you, I would forget about the formal obedience for now. I would be interested in others thoughts about this.
__________________
Cinzar's Dark Shadow Too (Ruger) CGC, RN 1/8/05
Quinn Z Old Farm (Cues) 6/7/09


Interesting....and I will definitely take what you have told me to heart. I have heard that too much can really dull a puppy and so maybe you guys are right....his sit/down stays are great, he walks and hikes like a champ on a leash....recall and focus? That's another story....


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Renee, just something for your reference. Ike is almost one and I am JUST now starting to do sit and down stays with him (maybe 3-5 seconds). From 8 weeks to 11 months all I worked on was focus, engagement, enthusiasm, and his obedience was all "movement based": heeling, recalls, sit, downs, and stand were done in the context play. It's not that you can't teach the pup to stay but if it was me I would not overdo it. In order for a pup to do a 1-2 minutes stay, he has to get into a particular frame of mind and this is not a frame of mind that will produce enthusiastic or focus obedience.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

^^ I agree with what Jason said above. In those photos I posted of my pup, Heidi, she's between 5 and 8 months old in all of them. So a younger pup is capable of the focus and heeling, depending of course on the pup, the handler and the training methods. But, the overall tone of the training makes a difference. Like Jason, all of her early obedience was active... focus, heeling, recalls, fronts, very quick sit/down/stand... and it was as much play as anything else, focusing mainly on building her love of the work, teaching engagement and really showing her that this was the most fun thing ever. That attitude is far more important in the foundation work than teaching individual commands and exercises. Once the attitude is built, the behaviors are easy. Heidi has known all 3 out of motion exercises (sit, down and stand) for a couple months now and been very correct and reliable, but I don't expect her to hold any position for more than a few seconds. Stays are something we're just now starting to really work on.

Teaching the "active" obedience first really sets a very different tone not only in the individual training sessions, but can affect the dog's lifelong outlook on obedience. If it's fun and energizing, the dog views it as such and brings drive, enthusiasm and intensity to the work. Then it's just teaching the dog what behaviors to channel those into. If it's focused on calm, boring things like stays, that conditions the dog to view obedience as calm and boring and certainly can make it more difficult to now get the dog showing drive and intensity and energized for the more active exercises.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I thank all of you for the input. When you say active obedience are you referring to working commands while the dog is play mode? Such as balls, tug and pole? If so, I have begun to this recently and I can see a big difference. I have a lot of trouble with fetch, I am using to balls and I would say that 50% of the time I get a return and an "out". I have also just recently begun to tug with him (teething over) and I am unsure the rules of this play as well. Before teething he really showed little interest in tug, balls and such. I certainly don't want to quell his enthusiasm or rush him. And it sounds like I might be.....


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I think the Michael Ellis videos mentioned earlier would be very helpful for you as they do a good job of illustrating using toys, food, and your own actions and attitude to build "engagement" and make things fun. 
But I do really think you'd be better off waiting on doing much more in the way of formal obedience until you can hook up with a trainer/club and get some in person guidance.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks....he is in classes (and has been since 12 weeks) but it is for just basic obedience and quite frankly we are bored....finding trainers here to do formal work is almost impossible. The closest club is two hours but I am interested so that's what I will have to do. In my case, any particular dvd should I purchase?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

This is a good thread - and I think with first dogs we get into that calendar mindset, like kids' developmental stages - by this date, they should be doing this. And that usually sucks the life out of everything! I know I've done it...and even in the process of training a young dog, I go back to that push button dog thinking when I want him to do something NOW. But when you do teach with happiness and enthusiasm and excitement - it really does create an actively engaged, learning dog. Have fun!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Yes, I think you are right! I want to be sure Jake is not "behind", and in a sense I am rushing him through puppy hood instead of focusing on milestones I am ten steps ahead. This has been an enlightening post with very honest good advice.


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