# Newly purchased GSD sometimes aggressive to my child



## lashon8 (Dec 23, 2012)

Hi. I am new to the GSD community and I am glad that I found you all. I have a question, we recently purchased a 1 1/2 year old male GSD. He is a good dog....most of the time. The lady I purchased him from said that he was good with children. I have a 5 yr old son. Most of the time Niko is good with him, but my son is timid of him because he is so BIG and a couple of times usually when he is laying in front of the door when my son tries to go into the bedroom beside the door he will get up and go towards my son and growl at him. Needless to say this is making me VERY nervous!! I am not sure what to do. Please any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think it should make you very nervous. I will leave others to give advice but I think I would not be keeping this dog for one minute if he is growling at a child. The child must come first.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Someone lied to you.

A GSD should not be growling at a 5 year old and I would not trust this dog with your child.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

zyppi said:


> Someone lied to you.
> 
> A GSD should not be growling at a 5 year old and I would not trust this dog with your child.



I totally agree. Take him back, not a match. I'm sorry, that really does suck  I have a 5 year old child myself. If a dog I had gotten recently did that I would IMMEDIATELY get it outta here, at the very least, NEVER EVER FOR ONE SPLIT SECOND leave it loose around the child until I could get the dog to a safe place, AWAY from my child.
The damage that can be done in a split second is NOT worth the risk...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> I think it should make you very nervous. I will leave others to give advice but I think I would not be keeping this dog for one minute if he is growling at a child. The child must come first.


Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!

Think about it - often the next step to a growl is a snap.

Either get rid of the dog or get pro experienced help right now. Maybe a muzzle anytime the dog is near the child. Unless the dog is in pain from something bsolutely no reason/excuse for an adult GSD toever growl for real at a small child!


Tragedy waiting to happen!!!!!


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Think about it - often the next step to a growl is a snap.
> 
> ...


The OP stated the dog would go toward the child while growling... the next step there is not just a snap, it is a full on attack. I wouldn't have that behavior going on for one split second. A little girl was killed here in Topeka last week by a Pitt in a home... this is not something to fool around with.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

dazedtrucker said:


> The OP stated the dog would go toward the child while growling... the next step there is not just a snap, a full on attack. I wouldn't have that behavior going on for one split second. A little girl was killed here in Topeka last week by a Pitt in a home... this is not something to fool around with.


Not necessarily an attack, could be a warning not to come any closer. I would not let the dog near the child obviously, but really could not make any specific comments unless I could actually see the behavior myself.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Not necessarily an attack, could be a warning not to come any closer. I would not let the dog near the child obviously, but really could not make any specific comments unless I could actually see the behavior myself.


I'm not claiming to be an expert, it just sounds like a stalking behavior. The dog is going TOWARDS the child, not warning the child not to come closer. It sounded to me like the child was not approaching the dog, the dog was approaching the child.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

You should give the dog back and until you can do this keep him away from your child at all times......he is not a "good dog".....please keep him away from your little boy.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

your son is timid of the dog . So he is already stressed , and then the dog gives him good reason to be frightened .

You bought an adult dog , without training , recently, and have not trained him , given him full freedom , while the son, the family are inhibited by the dog. Your son should be able to move around his house , wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom without thinking about hazards . 
You either crate the dog whenever he is not being trained, under supervision/control , until you know the dog and he knows his place -- or he goes back. I would opt for the GO BACK , no chances with dogs and kids .

Sounds like a distress sale in the first place . Why did the person sell the dog ?


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## Justaguy (Nov 20, 2012)

I would of sent that dog back instantly. Growling at a child is not acceptable especially from a full grown GSD. That could spell some serious trouble. Did the guy have children himself? If not that was your mistake. When I rescued my bullmastiff years ago I knew for sure he was good with kids because he lived with 3 of them and I went to see how he was around them.


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## lashon8 (Dec 23, 2012)

carmspack said:


> your son is timid of the dog . So he is already stressed , and then the dog gives him good reason to be frightened .
> 
> You bought an adult dog , without training , recently, and have not trained him , given him full freedom , while the son, the family are inhibited by the dog. Your son should be able to move around his house , wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom without thinking about hazards .
> You either crate the dog whenever he is not being trained, under supervision/control , until you know the dog and he knows his place -- or he goes back. I would opt for the GO BACK , no chances with dogs and kids .
> ...


 
Niko has been trained. He knows basic german commands. He obeys me the first time I tell him to do anything. The lady had teenage children but had a 5 and 8 year old niece and nephew that were frequent visitors. The reason she stated for getting rid of him was she was moving because of divorce and had 6 dogs. She had to get rid of all but two and was keeping the older dogs 9 & 10 yr old rescues. 
Niko plays with my son with no problems, and when we are out at the park with him, he tries to keep Matthew nearby and will go towards him and "check on him", lick him and play with him. 
Like I said this has happened on three occasions. I have had him for a little while. I do not leave them alone for one minute togather!! I would not. If I am not there he is crated. I also crate him at night. When this has happened I told him Nein! and he immediately layed down and stopped. I put him in his crate and left him for 15 minutes. I then let him out but ignored him for 5 minutes. After that I called him to me while I was holding my son in my lap and helped my son pet him. I kept my son sitting beside me with my arm around him while I talked to Niko and would not let him up on the couch with us.
I think that the growling is one of either three things:

1) He was keeping my son from going outside as he was laying in front of the door...he cries if either of my boys leave and he is left in the house. He will go from the front to back door then he will look out the window like he is listening for them. He is always making rounds through the house and checking on everyone and everything.
2) My son was sidestepping around him very slowly and staring at him. It could be that Niko thought he was challenging him
3) Maybe the niece and nephew was mean to him???

I am not sure and was hoping I could get some ideas on what I could do to build a relationship between the two. Neither one of my boys wants him to leave. My 5 yr old started crying when I mentioned it. He loves Niko and most of the time they are great togather. Just the three times. Since the last time when I did the above mentioned crate/ignore he has not had any futher episode. I just want to be sure that nothing happens again. I don't want to take any chances.
I am calling a trainer after the holidays as I am sure they will not be open before then. I thought I might get some suggestions until then.

Niko is a very smart GSD. It took me two nights to train him to automatically go into his crate and lay down when I tell him "Niko it's bedtime, go to bed". It only took me a day to teach him to keep his toys and bones in his basket. He puts up what he has out before he gets another item out. I feel like as smart as he is there HAS to be something that can be done. We all love him very much and want to keep him if at all possible. 
I am sorry that I posted such a long post I just wanted to try to give a more accurate picture of what is going on.
Thank you


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## Dotty (Mar 19, 2012)

I am the farthest thing from an expert, but a little suggestion is to teach your kids all the different types of body language there is. There will be tons of pictures online somewhere so they can see.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

Don't be sorry for a long post!  It sounds like you are handling it pretty well. Maybe it's not so much "aggression", and more "communicating"? I sense some hope here. I'd say do what you are doing, get the trainer ASAP. I'm not saying things are wonderful... maybe it's just not what it appears.
my dog that I have had from 8 weeks (he will be 2 in a couple months) does growl at my child now and then, when they are playing, and the kid is getting too rough. He's telling him to cut it out... and I know full well he would never be truly "aggressive". They are close, and have a bond... the dog's just "talking" to him. Boys should have dogs, and dogs should have boys 
I really hope things work out for you!


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

Alright, so theres a few things this could be.
While he is only 1 1/2 years old.. His eye sight could be damaged for whatever reason, which makes it hard for him to see, especially at night. He probably got startled by your son and reacted a little over the top.

Or.. He is guarding the pathways (door, steps, etc). Not because he wants to keep an eye on you guys and keep you safe.. But because these spots are valuable to him. This doesn't make him bad, just insecure. These spots are like bathing in money, and when someone else jumps in that tub wouldnt you get scared that they'd steal the money?
I have 4 cats and when my dogs try to go up or down the stairs, they wait for the cats to move or let them down. The cats are guarding this place because.. Well.. Look at how much power it gives them! 

Teach your son to not step over or go around Niko. Niko is in your way? Get him to move. Have your son clearly say his name while standing a few feet away and when Niko looks up at him, have your son toss the treat away from the doorway or path he wants to travel. If Niko is reluctant to move, then I would have a 6ft leash on him at all times so your son can pick it up and lead him away (i.e. NOT pull or force him away, but kind of pick up the leash and say 'Here Niko! Come here!' and entice him away with a treat.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

lashon, if you can integrate some of these techniques into your household, things may get off to a better start.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong 

You implement them and gradually integrate your kids into the routines, such as handfeeding kibble and "wearing" the dog, by taking him around the house by his leash.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have had a GSD or 2 or 3 in my life and house since 1985 and have raised 2 kids, and have 2 grandkids. This is not behavior I would accept, not towards a young child. To me that is one of the things about Shepherds is they KNOW kids from adults.

When Linus (born 1985) was about a year old he had a severe case of what we guess was pano--we don't know--took him to a vet who said "dysplasia" with no x-ray of course it was 1985 and Linus was with us for 15 years, and was moving just fine until 14.5.

My father could not approach him. MY 3 year old toddler fell on him later that day **and his reaction was to lick her. *THAT *is how a GSD is supposed to be towards children--JMO--

**yes, we were young and stupid and didn't know better - 

I would predict that the only thing predictable about a five year old (and his friends) is that they are unpredictable. I am sure this dog is fine and would be great for someone but it is not a risk I would take.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

jocoyn said:


> I would predict that the only thing predictable about a five year old (and his friends) is that they are unpredictable.


There is the crux of the problem.

This dog sounds like he has many good traits, but there is a place where his tolerance can be tested and that with a child.

Since you did not raise this dog from a pup or put in initial training, you really can't know his triggers.

As much as you all like him, I would find another home for him with adults.

It would only take on 'flash,' for you to forever wish you had. I don't want to sound 'scary,' but a large dog can leave scars or worse in a little face in seconds.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm not about to wonder WHY the dog does this or sugar coat it. 

Look, I don't know why you would even be asking this, as a mother. I don't care how much YOU like the dog or how awesome of a dog he is. I don't care how much your kids like him. And honestly I don't care WHY he is showing this behavior to your son! And I don't care to tell you to make your son act differently and HOPE that his 5yo self does it all of the time and avoids doorways if the dog is there in his own home in fear of being hurt but a big, powerful dog. 

If your child was older, maybe.
If it was a dog you've have for a long time giving a warning growl for a good reason, maybe. 
If it was a strange kid, maybe. 
If you kid was PROVOKING the behavior by doing something out of line, maybe.
But the truth is no dog on earth is worth your childs' safety or even life - he's at JUST the right height to get a canine in the jugular, isn't he? NO DOG IS WORTH IT. 

And if that's not bad enough, all we need as GSD owners is THAT to hit the news, and next thing you know they'll be banning GSDs with BSL and snatching them from our homes to be put down. 

Give him back so he can go to a home without kids. Get a dog you can trust.


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## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

Such a dilemma and I am not sure what I would do in your position tbh.

My old grump of a GSD, who is now 11 years, really didn't like kids - as she was jumped on by four unruly boys when she was just a pup (my fault for not having eyes in the back of my head). She would sometimes growl at my son (she was six when he was born) and my stepson, who would also stare at her and try to sidestep her at times. However, I knew she had an inherently good temperament, and that she was just a bit afraid of the kids. I knew she would never bite them - and she never has, she has in fact got much better around them and I can totally trust her now.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you had had Niko since he was a pup, then you might be able to put more trust in him, and know the triggers that might cause him to growl. Unfortunately he is an unknown entity and that would concern me.

If you are determined to keep him and work with him (which is entirely your right and decision) then getting an excellent trainer/behaviourist in to help work out WHY he is growling in the first place, and how to work on it, is definitely the best step. Until such time as you can see the trainer, I would keep your son and Niko separate as much as possible and definitely never leave them alone together.

Let us know what happens.


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## Umm Mohamed (Nov 25, 2012)

I will not take the risk if I were you..
We can replace hundreds of dogs, but we can't replace our love ones life..


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com App


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Situations like these make me cringe for the child's safety. We can think of all kinds of excuses, reasons and treatment for this behavior. The bottom line is that he is a very dangerous dog to _your_ child and that needs to be realized. It doesn't matter how he behaved at his previous home. I don't understand why you would even try and even still have him. You say they are always supervised together but you can never prevent a full attack as it happens in a split second.
I am not saying there is no hope for this dog, just not in your family. I am all for behavior modification to keep dogs and owner together but this case is different. My experience as a trainer in these cases is that people eventually have to rehome the dog anyways after an accident happened. 
I wonder if you realize how much damage a large GSD can do.....
Please keep your child safe and therefore the dog as well and trust your parental instincts.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

before you make a decision, have this boy thoroughly evaluated by the best behaviorist and the best trainer (they are not the same), you can find. i have no children and i love, love, love these dogs. but, in the order of importance when it comes to safety, the child always has to come first. ordinarily i also am a big believer in everyone having the right to make their own choices and decisions, but i do have a bit of a problem here, since the child has no choice or say in things, and an accident could totally ruin the child's life. only you know what the right thing for you to do is. wishing you good luck and peace of mind. take care, wishing you safe and happy holidays!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Honestly I say skip the eval and protect your child. If this was another dog he was at, or even a big kids (teens) or adult, I'd say work on it HARD. With a little bitty kid? Heck no. 

It's not like we're saying take him out back and shoot him Ol' Yeller style, we're saying give him back to his breeder. No matter how hard that is, it's not as hard as having a disfigured kid for life because you chose a dog over him.


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## lashon8 (Dec 23, 2012)

Thank you for the advice of getting my son to get Niko to move for him by throwing him a treat. I had not thought of that. 
There has not been any more episodes of that happening so far since the crate/ignore that I did to him. 
Niko actually brought his toy to my son and laid it down at his feet, then went and got his bone and brought it to him. 
My son is walking by him and petting him as he goes past with no signs of aggression from him now. 
I still plan on contacting a trainer, but maybe they just needed to get used to each other and Niko needed to learn where his place in our family is. As I am typing this, my son is sitting on the couch watching tv near me, and Niko is bringing him his ball and dropping it in his lap because he knows my son will not pull it from his mouth and they are playing fetch. Boy does Niko love to play with his Kong ball. He would play ALL day long if you would throw it that long!! LOL
Just wanted to give an update and thank you all for your advice and opinions. 
Hope you all have a merry christmas.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If you don't utilize a trainer right now, please please please read, understand and implement some "Mind Games" at the very least.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I wouldn't do the throw the treat to get the dog to move trick because there is something else going on . The dog would rush out scarf the goodie and then come back in a rush to bother the child .
That's a quaint picture of the boy sitting there tossing the toy and the dog bringing it back endlessly -- but it works because the boy is doing something for the dog, something that it likes. Now what would happen if the child or you asked the dog to do something it did not want to do , such as move , get out of the way ?
I think there has been to much trust and too much freedom for the dog too early . Until you get out there and you do some training to get a feel for the dog , you don't know him. 
I wouldn't take chances .


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I will try not to repeat everything others have said. The majority have good advice backed by breed knowledge and years of breed experience. I myself have a 5 year old. I also have a 3 year old. All I can say is please, if you're intent on keeping him, follow through on getting in touch with an experienced trainer, preferably one who has experience with the breed and actually likes the breed. You'd be surprised to find there are some trainers out there that simply dont like certain breeds and it will show in their methods with that breed. Personally, I'm not a fan of hounds but I don't let that get in my way when I'm working with one. Not all trainers behave that way. 

Niko sounds like he is a very good boy and you're lucky given his age. He could still be a holy terror. IMO, it's likely he needed to be reminded of his place in the "pack" but you should really keep a close eye on them. I would recommend getting your son involved in supervised training. Teach your son how to work with Niko. Example would be your son asking Niko to sit. Niko obeys the command. Your son tells him he's a good boy and gives him a treat or a pat at the same time as praise. Little simple things like that. If possible, when it's time for meals, train Niko to bring his bowl to your son. Help your son put the food in the bowl and then have your son put the food down and release Niko to eat. If you do that, make sure you teach Niko to stay a good 3 feet away at minimum when its meal time for safety and NEVER EVER leave your sons immediate side when doing this. It doesn't sound to me like Niko will be leaving your family any time soon so do everything you can to build a positive strong bond between your son and Niko. Always under supervision of course. I really wish you the best and for your sons sake, I hope Niko is as good of a dog as you say he is and really just needed to learn his place and what was accepted and not. Best of luck. Please get in touch with a trainer. Dont let that slip.


Also, do not step over the dog or skirt around him. Tell him to move. He needs to learn that even with your son, he is not allowed to lay in the way blocking the pathway.


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

carmspack said:


> I wouldn't do the throw the treat to get the dog to move trick because there is something else going on . The dog would rush out scarf the goodie and then come back in a rush to bother the child .


Why would he come back to bother the boy? I'm sure it is not the dog's goal to bother the child, and as you can see from the updates.. The dog is not bullying him.

The reason why I suggested the treat was because this might be resource guarding. Once they give something up (going after the treat) then they lost their chance.. If the doorway was so valuable that the dog would go get the treat and them come back to reclaim it from the boy... Then the dog wouldn't have left the doorway in the first place. 

It is trading one thing for another, Niko gets a treat for giving up the spot he was laying and the boy gets to continue on his merry way. It's not like the child will be lingering in the spot.. Hes just walking through.

In an ideal situation, you wouldn't want the dog to resource guard at all or get dependent on a trade. But that isn't the case. I think OP has made it apparent that she wants to work with Niko and make things work.. 


Thank you OP for updating us on your situation.
How much does Niko like his crate?
There is something I want you to do..
Make his crate the most BESTEST place ever. Feed him in there, give him treats, chewies, etc. Create a command so he goes to his crate whenever you give the word. First start next to the crate and gradually increase the distance.. Then stand outside the door and ask him to go to his crate.. advance down the hallway.. Until he runs like a lunatic to that crate!
It may take many months to be able to do it.. But if your child could say 'Go to your Crate, Niko!' and that dog drops everything hes doing and runs to his crate and waits for his reward.. It is something invaluable. When my dog slipped out the door once and made a mad dash to the pasture with horses in it.. He ignored 'Come' 'Here' and my emergency recall.. But telling him to go to his crate made him turn on a dime and zoom back inside the house just as fast as he went out.

In addition to Mind Games.. Take a look at crate games too..

Best of luck and merry christmas.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Keep the dog and the child separated or get rid of the dog. A large dog can kill a child very quickly. In order to safely have a large dog and a small child living together, the dog needs to absolutely adore the child and (or) have a crystal clear understanding of his place in the home. Having not raised the dog from a pup along with the warning growls I would not risk letting the two of them together. There are too many dynamics at play to take the risk of an attack on a child.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

robk said:


> Keep the dog and the child separated or get rid of the dog. A large dog can kill a child very quickly. In order to safely have a large dog and a small child living together, the dog needs to absolutely adore the child and (or) have a crystal clear understanding of his place in the home. Having not raised the dog from a pup along with the warning growls I would not risk letting the two of them together. There are too many dynamics at play to take the risk of an attack on a child.


 
Very true! Very hard to take the risk of even a single snap of a large dog with a small child, for sure!

We had GSD's all the while our child was growing up - from 3 yrs before he came to many years after he was grown and out. 

ALL of them were great with him - never worried at all that any of them would ever harm the baby (except maybe stepping on him!) no matter what he did or where he walked or even yanked out of their mouth. (of course he was raised to respect the dogs as well and not hurt them!).

I would never have a dog that i could not trust implictly with any family member!


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

I think that keeping the dog and the child separated until a trainer can evaluate is a good thing. This is a behavior that should be taken extremely seriously and you don't want to risk _anything_ happening that might inadvertently reinforce the growling. I'm not even sure I'd recommend tethering the dog to you in this case (instead, use baby gates or something to keep them separated--just make sure the dog gets plenty of attention too!), because a 5-year-old is going to approach his parents (and should be able to), and tethering might encourage the dog to resource guard you.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with those who think the dog should be given up no matter what. There are too many factors here for me to feel comfortably saying that without seeing the situation. I know many people here will disagree, but I think that if every dog who ever growled a warning at a child was rehomed, we would either have a much bigger dog overpopulation problem or a lot fewer dogs due to euthanasia.

It should absolutely be taken seriously and professional help should be gotten ASAP. If allowed to escalate, this can very quickly turn into a dangerous situation--and at the very least, it really isn't fair for your son to have to be afraid of the dog he lives with!

edit: I also want to add that I would never blame someone for rehoming a dog that growled at a child, either. I think everyone just has to evaluate their own situation and comfort level. I personally never allow young children around animals unsupervised (taught literally 100s of 5-10 year old kids how to ride horses and work with dogs, and I simply don't believe that they have the judgment or coordination to be trusted around animals without an adult closely watching--it's not fair to the child or the dog IMO), so for me some resource guarding in a very specific situation that I could avoid with management/training/supervision wouldn't necessarily be a dealbreaker. But, I do not at all judge those who feel differently, or who don't want to feel like they have to manage all the time.


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## lashon8 (Dec 23, 2012)

angryrainbow said:


> Why would he come back to bother the boy? I'm sure it is not the dog's goal to bother the child, and as you can see from the updates.. The dog is not bullying him.
> 
> The reason why I suggested the treat was because this might be resource guarding. Once they give something up (going after the treat) then they lost their chance.. If the doorway was so valuable that the dog would go get the treat and them come back to reclaim it from the boy... Then the dog wouldn't have left the doorway in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
In response to your suggestions. I have gotten Niko to anytime I tell him to go to bed he goes to his crate. I can tell him from anywhere in my house. I leave the door shut but not locked and he will open the door with his nose and go lay down. He will not come out until I tell him to come on. This only took me two days working with him. Sometimes you can tell he doesnt want to, like when he is playing and getting a little wild,( I make he go lay down to calm down) but he does it anyways. Like I said he obeys me very well. He will not jump on the furniture or bed without my permission. He will lay his head on the said furniture and look at me. I will say okay come on, and up he comes. Without my invite he just sits there looking at me. I dont let him sleep with me, but I enjoy reading before I go to bed and sometimes will allow him to lay at the foot of my bed. I do not allow him at the head of the bed where I am though. Before I go to bed I tell him go to bed Niko and he gets up goes to his crate and lays down and I lock him in. As far as the couch goes, he automatically goes down when my son comes in the room. I tell him down and he will jump off and go lay on the floor. 
My son is the one who feeds and waters him. He wanted a job to help take care of Niko and I felt that was one that he could handle. So, I hold Niko while he fills his food and water bowls, once he has done that I let go of him to eat. He has never shown any signs of aggression towards his food. The first time we fed him, before anything had happened while my son was feeding him and watering him he was having to push his head out of the way to get the rest of his food in the bowl. Now after that I hold on to him while he feeds him at a few feet's distance, to be safe.
Thank you for all your suggestions, comments and help. I hope to get in touch with a trainer tomorrow. 
I hope you all have had a merry christmas.


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