# Transporting Dogs from South to North



## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Just curious on people's opinion on this.

Our local shelter now gets very few dogs locally from this area or even this state or surrounding states. Most dogs are transported from the south. Almost every dog who finds its way to our shelters is adopted within just 5 days.

The reason I'm thinking about this, is my vet told me illnesses like brucellosis- which is devastating to a breeding dog- are showing up more often and are traced to dogs imported from the south. 

I can see both sides, because my female GSD was a southern stray I directly adopted (as a stray, not from a rescue). She is a wonderful dog and I've feel lucky to have her in my life over the years. 

But, aren't we perpetuating the root of the problem by scooping up dogs and adopting them out up north?

Also, many of the "rescue" dogs I meet have fear issues. 

I don't want to be cold-hearted, but it is just maybe $500 more to buy a pet from a reputable breeder for many breeds of suitable companion dogs (labrador for example), compared to adopting from the shelter where dogs go for $350 adoption fee. 

Aren't the empty shelters we would have here without southern transports the end goal? 

I'm conflicted over this and looking for your thoughts.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

People are weird. There's someone my friend is close with who is adamant on adopting a dog from the Middle East. Absolutely determined to bring a dog over from there and rescue it. I find it ironic considering how many issues we have locally with dogs constantly coming from the reserves up north who need just as much care but are readily available at your finger tips. Many of our dog shelters - and we have MANY outside of the SPCA - are constantly rejecting dogs because there aren't enough foster homes or enough room. So they can end up in a kill shelter or simply dead because they can't be picked up. 

Sometimes I think people just want to say they did a good thing without thinking about the poor trauma the dog has to go through to get there, or the consequences like you mentioned that can come up because of it. I can't imagine how well a knowingly abused dog would react after a 5-10 hour flight to an unknown place. Lots of ignorance in the mainstream thought of "adopt vs. shop", and that if you want a dog then you better adopt it or else you're just contributing to the problem. And yet ethical breeders rarely have their dogs placed in shelters...


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I adopted two dogs from the south. Natty Boh is from SC and Shelby is from KY. I can give you the reasons why.

1. In my area, every shelter dog is one breed, or a mix of that breed. I don't think I'm allowed to name that breed. I have nothing against those particular dogs, just not my breed of choice.

2. I wanted a hound mix. Southern shelters are full of PB hounds and mixes of all kinds. No hound here, unless they are also imported from the south.

3. I wanted a puppy. Our shelters just about never have puppies, unless they also imported the puppies from the south. And those puppies go like hotcakes. 

4. Shelters in my area are pretty much no-kill. Natty Boh was on the euth. list in SC, because he had demodex. There are so many dogs and puppies at that shelter, no one wants to deal with an issue - like demodex. I feel like I really did save his life.

I'm not even sure what the going shelter adoption rate is in my area. Natty Boh was FREE. He had been adopted and returned. He had Demodex. He was 12 weeks old and on the euth. list. The shelter was happy I wanted him. It cost me $85 to have him transported to my front door. He was neutered, UTD on shots, HW tested, dewored, microchipped. I sent the shelter a nice donation.

Shelby's adoption fee was $95.00, because she was under 6 months. Her health certificate to cross state lines cost about $15 and it was less than $100 to transport her to MD. Shelby was spayed, first shots, microchipped, etc.

Shelters here transport dogs from the south, because they know those dogs and puppies will get adopted quickly here. The same dogs, will die in the south. Puppies are a dime a dozen. I'm glad they do it. I prefer to deal directly with the southern shelters. I don't need the middle man. I adopted both my dogs sight unseen. Met them when they arrived on transport. Boh is almost 5 now and Shelby will be 3, end of the summer. They are both great dogs. Shelby is mostly GSD and I don't know what else. She is the world's sweetest dog. The shelter told me she was the most laid back puppy in her litter. I believe it. It has not been my experience that rescue dogs have fear issues.

Just to add.... while I would adopt an out of state dog, I would not be looking to adopt an out of country dog. I guess some people may have a reason for doing that. I don't.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Our shelters are empty as well. Most shelter dogs come here from California. They're trucked or flown in and they're adopted out very quickly. Most are chihuahua's or variants of the unmentionables.

The idea of bringing in a dog from over seas vs one from nearby states with crowded shelters seems bizarre. On a different note dog theft is way up in our area, the demand is up so selling stolen dogs must be profitable.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

To put this into perspective, about 5 years ago, when I moved to the South and started volunteering at the local animal shelter (dog pound), the kill rate was about 80% (80% of dogs that came in alive left in a trash bag). 

Let that sink in for a second. Nearly every dog that came in was killed. The total annual canine intake was around 5,000 dogs -- this is a mid-sized city, not even the biggest one in the state. Add in the other cities, towns, and villages, and we had WAY over 10,000 dogs a year dying in my state alone. Year in and year out, the numbers never declined. 

Some days, the intake number was 150 dogs in a shelter that held only 400 -- when they were full, that meant they had to kill that many to make space. Most were killed the minute their 3-day hold was up. Imagine what 150 dead dogs looks like -- then imagine tomorrow is going to look the same. And the day after that. Now imagine that happening in dozens of places. 

I started volunteering to walk the big dogs, because a lot of the other volunteers were afraid of them, so they languished in a filthy kennel, with no outside time 24/7 until their appointed hour to die. My heart dropped when I saw GSD after GSD after GSD -- one week I remember there were 12 of them -- I think there were close to 150 that year, most of them young and just normal dogs. Not mixes -- GSDs of every color pattern. Maybe twice as many Shepherd mixes, and few mals, rots and dobes too. There were tiny lap dogs of every conceivable breed -- even a Chinese Crested. 

One of my personal dogs was very nearly smuggled out of the euth room by a staff member who called my cell in tears to come get her NOW as a puppy --her mama, a purebred GSD, had just been euthanized in front of the pup because at that time, they had horrible protocols. The pup's reason for being there? Their people moved. Imagine how terrified this pup was...and yet she's the dog who's rehabilitated more foster dogs for me than I can count with her uncanny ability to know what they need -- she's quite literally my partner in rescue....amazing temperament. She has a shining light inside her that's pure devotion. Only in a world gone mad would a dog like this have nearly been euthanized.

Go through enough of that, and the madness of this situation will go deep inside you. At the peak of puppy season in April, whole litters get dropped off and euthanized -- they had to kill 4 litters of perfectly healthy puppies one day I was there. I saw the vet tech who had to do it sobbing behind a dumpster. The reasons for selecting a dog often included "too many of that type" and "no space."

So, yeah, I get why southern shelters are transporting. They're desperate to bring down their kill numbers, because the Powers that Be won't change the social situation that is causing it, in a place with year-round puppy season, cultural aversion to spay/neuter, and too many dogs being born. Good, caring people who haven't lost their sense of decency and humanity yet are trying to be the change.

That said, I'm deeply worried about the way transport is being done. Vet care and temperament testing MUST be properly handled -- and it's not a simple task. There are emerging parasites, bacteria, and illnesses down here that aren't present up North -- and we need to protect northern dog populations. It's irresponsible to expose northern canine populations to this stuff. We have ivermectin-resistant heartworms emerging -- some prevention products are failing. We have rat lungworms attacking dogs, plus chagas, and other things unlikely to be known to northern vets. Our tropical climate puts us on the frontline of emerging diseases coming up from Latin America and the Caribbean. There's stuff I see here that I NEVER saw living out West. Never.

What's more, I know how this shelter in my city vets all the dogs that leave -- I pull dogs from them all the time and knojw the vets and their limitations on resources. I know what extra vetting always needs to be done. I know which people there can't read a fecal float under the microscope properly -- and thus I know to not trust their results. I know that they use the cheapest, least reliable HW test kits, and false negatives are surprisingly common upon retesting with better kits--so we don't assume any dog they advertise as HW(-) is really negative. We have a protocol developed with a rescue-specialized vet to respond to all that. What happens when the transport partners rely on that sub-par vetting though?

I also know which individuals in local shelters can read a GSD, and which ones can't. When one tells me something about temperament, I know not to trust a lot of them. There are a few people who never, ever sugar coat problems, over-disclose issues, and give me good info. Some shelter staff can't read any dogs all that well, or they can only read one common breed but not our breed, which behaves very differently than some other breeds. The temperament testing methodology they use really matters, and you have to be on the ground to know what that is. When you're local though, you just go and spend half a day with the dog to figure it out, or take it home to observe for a week. If I'm pulling a project dog, I know what I'm pulling. Transporter partners sometimes have to rely on what they hear from the shelter staff -- and that worries me, too.

So...it's a complicated problem. I think responsible transporting requires a commitment to excellent vetting and temperament testing pre-transport -- and that's hard for a lot of shelters to manage. It requires time to let disease incubation periods run, and the shelters don't have that time, unless they can find pre-transport foster homes. The FB networkers trying to get dogs out drive me bonkers -- they're invariably clueless about the dogs they're networking -- I've seen dogs with known bite histories being networked on FB as having "good temperaments" by armchair activists who live in the UK and think they're "helping." (Their history is known to me because I've seen the Animal Control report and declined to pull those dogs!) Sending a dog like that to become someone else's problem is terrible. There are SO many really GOOD dogs who deserve that help, I don't understand the need to expend those resources on the ones that have unprovoked bites.

If I had unlimited time, foster homes, money, and help, we'd send good, young GSDs to other breed rescues that could handle placements in places that don't have them. I could literally send the cream of the crop, and even fill a GSR wish list of adopter color requests between May and Sept, and again in Jan when the numbers peak -- we've even had a dad-gum panda come through from a known color-breeder. Want a dark sable? Sure! All black? No problem! White? Okiedokie! WGSL? How about a young red one that came with an AKC pedigree thick with von Arminius and vom Kirschenthal? Seriously, we've had all that. We've even had retired police K9s land in shelters. Dutchies and mals have started popping up more and more too -- they're trendy, and too much dog for the average puppy buyer, so guess what happens? 

My city got our kill number down to about 40% locally -- it took five years of hard work by the entire dog community, one dog at a time. They had to go to "open adoptions" to get there -- anyone with a pulse can get a dog from a shelter (homeless, chain in the yard, guard the drug stash, no money for food or vet care, everybody gets a dog -- sometimes for as little as $25). That's brought it's own set of terrible problems. 

None of the solutions here is perfect. They're all cost-benefit calculations. No progress whatsoever is being made on spay/neuter, getting people to not let dogs breed indiscriminately, or the mass of BYBs who use their dogs as an ATM, selling as many pups as they can out of trucks in parking lots. I've seen the statistics in my city: intake numbers are going up, not down. It sometimes feels like we're accomplishing nothing.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Transporting diseases up here is bad. Not just for the adopters but for the dogs these dogs infect. 

The answer to too many dogs there, is not just to transport them else-where. Transporting some of them, while combatting the problem in other ways as well. Ensuring you are not transporting communicable diseases, making sure the dogs you do transport are vaccinated, heartworm tested, and on prevention, and are free of other contagious diseases like Brucellosis, before shipping them to other parts of the country -- really there ought to be a law. 

For breeders to ship over state lines, the dogs have to be checked and certified by a veterinarian. Why is the same not true for shelters? Because shelters can't afford it? Well, sorry, but the reason breeders have to do it is to protect buyers and to protect other pets from diseases. Why should this not be the same?


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## SamsontheGSD (Dec 23, 2016)

South Carolinian here. We made a total of 7 trips to our local animal shelter and SPCA prior to deciding on another GSD (Samson). I know our county shelter ships dogs up north because that's where there is demand, whereas here there is supply. I would think that all dogs coming from our shelter have been properly vetted for disease. If not, why?

Like someone else mentioned 75-80% if the dogs in our shelter are pit or pit mixes. I actually asked about it and was told it was always like that because that was what was running around loose. Hopefully I'm ok for saying that as it's certainly true.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

selzer said:


> Transporting diseases up here is bad. Not just for the adopters but for the dogs these dogs infect.
> 
> The answer to too many dogs there, is not just to transport them else-where. Transporting some of them, while combatting the problem in other ways as well. Ensuring you are not transporting communicable diseases, making sure the dogs you do transport are vaccinated, heartworm tested, and on prevention, and are free of other contagious diseases like Brucellosis, before shipping them to other parts of the country -- really there ought to be a law.
> 
> For breeders to ship over state lines, the dogs have to be checked and certified by a veterinarian. Why is the same not true for shelters? Because shelters can't afford it? Well, sorry, but the reason breeders have to do it is to protect buyers and to protect other pets from diseases. Why should this not be the same?


My shelter dogs had veterinary certification to cross state lines.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> My shelter dogs had veterinary certification to cross state lines.


That is required for inter-state transport. The certificate has to be issued within a certain number of days. The quality of the certificate is only as good as the vet issuing it, though -- that's true of _any _travel certificate. It's the exact same certificate you might have needed to fly with your dog for example. They all get vaxed, speutered, fecal tested, HW tested, etc. by the shelter vet. If anyone's not doing that minimal stuff, they're not following the law.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Magwart said:


> That is required for inter-state transport. The certificate has to be issued within a certain number of days. The quality of the certificate is only as good as the vet issuing it, though -- that's true of _any _travel certificate. It's the exact same certificate you might have needed to fly with your dog for example. They all get vaxed, speutered, fecal tested, HW tested, etc. by the shelter vet. If anyone's not doing that minimal stuff, they're not following the law.


Are they tested for brucellosis, because that is a huge deal. They may be testing for HW now, but post-Katrina, a LOT of dogs came up this way, and that is when heartworm started becoming a much bigger issue. The mosquitos bite an infected dog, become infected, and then transmit the disease to other dogs. And, brucellosis started making a comeback up here. Maybe they are doing a better job now. I certainly hope so.

Evenso, the answer is not just to ship the dogs elsewhere, they need to also make some progress on the problem that is creating all these dogs. Like, if your intact dog is picked up once, you get it back intact. If it gets picked up again, then you get a huge fine, and part of that goes to altering your pet, because, you aren't responsible enough to own an intact animal. If an area has a huge issue, they need to deal with it, not just put a bandaid on it and cover it up.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

yet at the same time, there are people in Southern states are bragging about the dogs brought in for adoption from Mexico. Or the middle East. Or wanting to import and save the dogs from China so they don't get eaten.

When I lived in WV, our local shelter was always packed. Yet they imported dogs from southern shelters. Ironic, in this conversation, because all there were locally were hound, lab or similar mixes. People would be lined up in the parking lot when the "rescue" van arrived and adopt dogs right off the truck. It would be empty before the time was up. There was an application but no follow through on it. Simply "fill this out, hand me money, take the dog" 

Then it was "go inside and euthanize whatever dogs time was up that day" Because the shelter was still full. People would even bring the dog that they planned to dump at the shelter with them when meeting the rescue van.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Dainerra said:


> yet at the same time, there are people in Southern states are bragging about the dogs brought in for adoption from Mexico. Or the middle East. Or wanting to import and save the dogs from China so they don't get eaten.
> 
> When I lived in WV, our local shelter was always packed. Yet they imported dogs from southern shelters. Ironic, in this conversation, because all there were locally were hound, lab or similar mixes. People would be lined up in the parking lot when the "rescue" van arrived and adopt dogs right off the truck. It would be empty before the time was up. There was an application but no follow through on it. Simply "fill this out, hand me money, take the dog"
> 
> Then it was "go inside and euthanize whatever dogs time was up that day" Because the shelter was still full. People would even bring the dog that they planned to dump at the shelter with them when meeting the rescue van.



This bothers me and I have no idea how to make it better. Have these families been interviewed to see if they have the right skills for the dog they want? Are the dogs watched to see if their behavior matches what the family needs? I'm not talking about the long process some rescues do. I'm talking about a simple give and take information finding discussion. 
That being said, I did adopt one dog from a family that just wanted to get her off of their hands. They didn't know how to train her. She was a fabulous dog!
I adopted another from PetFinder and the screening process seemed to be to make it through the gauntlet of dogs in the yard. If the huge white dog who guarded the door let you pass, you were good. (I jest but that is how it felt to me). We did chat for awhile human to human and I got to see the dog playing in the house before we finalized anything. 
I think that sometimes we are so thrilled to have anyone chose a dog and take it home, that due diligence is neglected. 
By the way, when I lived in GA, it was a no-pet store state, retail rescue only, and yet they still busted up an in state "puppy mill". If people were as studious about which pup / dog that they wanted to bring home as the folks who post in these forums then unethical breeders would not make a profit, less dogs would be needing rescue, etc. 


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## Raisedbyshepherds (Mar 30, 2017)

I also live in SC. Its a huge problem here. The root of it is there is still alot of old school thinking towards dogs in general. Some of that is good some bad. 
Among the poorer classes it is the same as elsewhere in the world. A dog is just a dog. Not a human. A lower life form. Leave it tied to a tree it doesnt matter its just a dog. My neighbor has 2 of the breed that shall not be named here. Tied to an electrical line post. They go under the mobile home for shelter. Bark non stop. They claim the dogs are their babies. Yeah right. I tell them when they get loose and try to get my little goats I'll have to shoot the dogs. What happens? They get loose and come in my yard. One day I'm going to have to live with the fact that I had to shoot someones dogs......
90% of the dogs in my area....we live on a large island with a very cultural established rural community that has been here for several centuries.... 90% are the breed who shall not be named. If it barks at someone then it must be a good dog, and a status symbol. Everyone has a couple. Ridiculous. Our county has gone to all females of this breed must be spayed. No selling of this breed in this county. Doesnt help. The owners can breed whatever piece of crap dogs and sell them for 500$ a piece with papers. Still get 300$ no papers. 
Youre a nobody if you dont have these dogs for people to see. 
Hey if it doesnt work out you just take it up the road and drop it off in a wealthy neighborhood.... So some nice soul can take the dog in....... And then take to shelter because it has temperament issues. Or grows tumors the size of a grapefruit out of its butt. No lie. 
The other problem here ...... And I'm gonna take a beating over this.......
Sorry, but military service people. 
Im in a military county also. 
Service men and woman, and families get dogs, knowing they will be having to move in a couple of years. Then the dogs get sent to shelter if cant find a home. 
Ive been offered german shepherds, bulldogs, pit bulls, pyrenees, all types by military people about to ship out.......
The problem here is a class isue more than anything though. 
Its mai ly a certain class of people that cause the majority of the dog issues here. Not race mind you. Class. 
Its just a dog. Its a lower life form. 
All it really needs is food and maybe water once a day. You chain it up and neglect it on purpose so it gets miserable and mean. 
People honestly think this makes a protective dog. And then say its a bad dog and beat it when it gets loose and chases the kids nipping and biting. 
Makes me furious.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Interesting discussion. Thanks for all the opinions and experiences. 

Magwart- I know who to ask if I'm looking for another shepherd to adopt. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I think you've covered most of the questions I had about this issue. 

I think if the health and temperament screenings are done thoroughly, and there is a market up north (or otherwise, sometimes dogs are shipped north to south depending on location), it is OK to ship dogs, assuming that there is no stray dog problem in that area. People do like the "rescue" idea, and that is fine, I get it. 

I do think there are many of what I'd consider "retail rescues" that are in it for the profit but know all the right catch phrases. I think that needs to be policed more thoroughly. I am very much against transport of tropical/subtropical diseases via dog, that needs to be stopped, absolutely. 

I'm also very anti importing dogs from overseas. If and when we have no adoptable stray dogs left in the USA, then it might be time to start figuring out a health and quarantine system for this... and even then I'd tend to push people looking for dogs to support reputable breeders first. 

It is so sad to hear that dogs are still being euthanized in bulk in certain shelters- dogs of all ages and breeds. What a shame. 

Would completely free spay neuter in those areas help with the problem? Or are breeders, as Magwart mentioned, just using their dogs as ATMs and don't care if many end up in shelters?

What is or are the solution(s)? 

It sounds like spay and neuter have gone as far as they can and there is a lot more to the problem.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Interesting topic...

There is such disparity between different regions of the country. Magwart, your shared stories are heartwrenching... it's almost hard to believe that we live in the same country.

This is the current status of one of the prominent rescue organizations local to me (emphasis is mine, as it's relevant to this conversation).



> Unfortunately, we are not currently accepting adoption applications, due to the length of our wait list. The number of dogs coming into rescue has dramatically decreased in the past few years, and we have many families who have been waiting for a dog for a year or longer. *Our Board of Directors is exploring options for bringing more dogs to you.* Thanks for your patience through this process.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I've never had a rescue, nor have I ever been involved with a rescue. But I do know of one humane society here in the Bay Area (there may also be more, I just have personal knowledge of this one) that periodically takes a van to shelters in lower income rural areas in the central valley and brings back animals for adoption. 

I fully support this practice - the shelter is a very nice no-kill facility in an affluent area and this is a way for healthy adoptable animals that would otherwise have virtually no chance at survival to find good homes. It's where the flyball club I first started with practiced each week. One of my former teammates works there in animal control (this is also the county A/C headquarters) another is the director of behavior and training. They also took in hundreds of animals displaced due to hurricane Katrina.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I am all for importing dogs from other countries. Why not. The despair is even greater for these dogs. Countries like China, Vietnam, Cambodia, South and North Korea, Laos, Indonesia...NONE of these countries have ANY animal protection laws. So you can in fact set a dog on fire in front of a police officer and he will light a cigarette off of it.


Romania, Bosnia, Sri Lanka...Dogs getting run over in the streets, left to a slow painful death. *Shrug* 


If you're looking to rescue a dog and you see one that tugs on your heart strings and you say to yourself, I want that dog. Then where you get it should be of no consequence. If you can afford to ship it into your arms. Go for it.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Dog flu outbreaks have been traced to dogs imported from overseas. Disease is just one reason I am against bulk importation of dogs by rescue organizations.

Also, I just did a quick search on Petfinder- found 4,000-plus GSDs listed, 14,000 Labradors... I think we should focus on the dogs in need locally, first. If those numbers were in the hundreds, perhaps I could support responsible, health-screened import of dogs overseas. 

People who fall in love with a stray dog overseas, like the ones in Sochi during the Olympics- I can understand importing a dog you personally made a connection with- that makes sense on a small scale, I guess. But the veterinarian and health screenings need to be far more rigorous. 

There are plenty of dogs in need here, in North America. Some of them may not be puppies anymore, and have a more boring life story, but many have stellar temperaments and make great pets.

If someone imports a dog from Korea or China and that dog spreads a disease that ends up killing or making dogs here really ill, nope. No excuses for that. Tropical diseases are no joke and our dogs have no natural defenses against them.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

How saving this adorable mutt could put your own best friend at risk of illness or even death


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Well, adopting oversees would not be an option for me any way. Could not afford that. Not that I was looking for a bargain, when I adopted my two out of state, but I did save money. Puppies under 6 months, at our local SPCA are $250.00 + $75.00 mandatory training classes. It would have cost me $325.00 each - $650.00 to adopt Shelby and Boh from the SPCA. I adopted both pups for $275.00, including transport. Actually, that was 'mostly' for transport.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Well if dogs didn't come from overseas, we wouldn't have a GSD. 
Dogs go through rescues and HS gets involved as well as other orgs., they are screened and vetted, shipped fostered...are they o.k.? I mean the argument that people have a right to decide to shop breeder...peoples right to rescue outside of country.
Here in Canada, there is shortage too. I went into a HS this past week. There was 12 dogs. (3-4 adopted or pending approval) Could have housed 3x that. 2 little girls were from Mexico and have been there over month after being vetted and fostered in Mexico.


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## SamsontheGSD (Dec 23, 2016)

Raisedbyshepherds said:


> I also live in SC. Its a huge problem here. The root of it is there is still alot of old school thinking towards dogs in general. Some of that is good some bad.
> Among the poorer classes it is the same as elsewhere in the world. A dog is just a dog. Not a human. A lower life form. Leave it tied to a tree it doesnt matter its just a dog. My neighbor has 2 of the breed that shall not be named here. Tied to an electrical line post. They go under the mobile home for shelter. Bark non stop. They claim the dogs are their babies. Yeah right. I tell them when they get loose and try to get my little goats I'll have to shoot the dogs. What happens? They get loose and come in my yard. One day I'm going to have to live with the fact that I had to shoot someones dogs......
> 90% of the dogs in my area....we live on a large island with a very cultural established rural community that has been here for several centuries.... 90% are the breed who shall not be named. If it barks at someone then it must be a good dog, and a status symbol. Everyone has a couple. Ridiculous. Our county has gone to all females of this breed must be spayed. No selling of this breed in this county. Doesnt help. The owners can breed whatever piece of crap dogs and sell them for 500$ a piece with papers. Still get 300$ no papers.
> Youre a nobody if you dont have these dogs for people to see.
> ...


Are you in Beaufort? 

Sounds a lot like Aiken. Although we did recently pass a law banning chaining/tethering dogs outside. Augusta has a similar law. I think it's a huge step in the right direction, but do have some reservations. If a dog is behind a fence and chained what happens when that chain is removed? Was it a dangerous dog that escapes? Are my kids and dog now in a little more danger? IDK.

We were in Petsmart last Saturday getting some training treats. Saturdays are adoption day where they have rescues on site. One of the rescues, guess what kind, saw Samson and went nuts growling, barking, and trying to bust out of one of those temporary play pens they set up. Samson is a good boy and just looked at him like "what's wrong with him". Not sure why that dig was there though.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

car2ner said:


> This bothers me and I have no idea how to make it better. Have these families been interviewed to see if they have the right skills for the dog they want? Are the dogs watched to see if their behavior matches what the family needs? I'm not talking about the long process some rescues do. I'm talking about a simple give and take information finding discussion.
> . 



the shelter in question doesn't have that type of process anyway. You simply show up, point at a dog and say "I'll take that one" hand over the money and walk out with the dog.

the same was true of the imports, of course. Also, if you wanted a specific type of dog or mix, they would put it on their "shopping list" when they went to pick up dogs down south. Then you could basically "pre-adopt" if the shelter they were picking up from had what you were looking for.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

GatorBytes said:


> Well if dogs didn't come from overseas, we wouldn't have a GSD.
> Dogs go through rescues and HS gets involved as well as other orgs., they are screened and vetted, shipped fostered...are they o.k.? I mean the argument that people have a right to decide to shop breeder...peoples right to rescue outside of country.
> Here in Canada, there is shortage too. I went into a HS this past week. There was 12 dogs. (3-4 adopted or pending approval) Could have housed 3x that. 2 little girls were from Mexico and have been there over month after being vetted and fostered in Mexico.


the problem is, many of these shelters and "rescues" do nothing to screen or vet the dogs. Neither is it done at the originating shelter. Our local no-kill Humane Society is full, 3-6 month waiting list on intake depending on the size of the dog. Our local animal control, almost full. Less dogs are picked up because we don't have a leash law in our area so, if a dog is wearing a collar, they won't pick it up. 7 individually run rescues within 45 minute drive, all filled to capacity. 
Some of them do basic health checks on the dogs, some don't. 

The dogs sent from here to Northern shelters may or may not have core vaccines. They may or may not get them before adoption. In many cases, they are literally given vaccines as they are adopted. When I lived in WV, it wasn't uncommon for shelters to have parvo outbreaks and simply euthanize all puppies on the premises, even if not yet showing symptoms. Dogs that had been adopted out weren't given vaccines until adopted so many likely left the facility carrying disease.

There are literally "rescues" here in the US that have volunteers climb into a van, drive across the border to Mexico, come back with a load of dogs they gathered up on the street, adopt them out basically in the parking lot when they get back home. Hopefully they at least vaccinate the dogs as they are unloaded. But nothing is done as far as fostering. As far as matching dog to family. As far as even knowing what type of basic temperament the dogs have. 
And, sadly, there are people lining up to take them simply because it's "cool" to say that you adopted a street dog from Mexico. Or from the Philippines. Or from some other country. 
The US has no shortage of dogs needing rescue, even if that means you move dogs from one region to another. We don't need to be importing dogs when we euthanize thousands a day that are already here. so far from July 2016 to July 2017 (so several months that aren't factored yet) a single facility in LA, California has euthanized over 1000 dogs. http://www.laanimalservices.com/pdf/reports/DogIntakeNOutcomes.pdf In the past 6 years, they have put down almost 30,000. That is just one facility in 1 city. That area has several other facilities, rescues and private individuals working on the stray and dumped dog problem.

The number of dogs euthanized in American shelters has DROPPED in the last few years. With most recent numbers being just a bit below 800,000 THOUSAND!!!! dying in shelters. Believe me, we don't need to be importing dogs to be adopted when we have so many already here.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

and that estimate is on the conservative side. Rescue groups and places such as the Humane Society of the United States put the number at over 1 million dogs a year being euthanized.

So, best case scenario from numbers by a group whose goal is to allow pet stores to sell puppies from breeders, is still a LOT of dogs.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm on the fence about this,,in one way I feel bad for any animal that ends up in a shelter or rescue, however, here in CT our shelters are FULL, mostly with pit/pit mixes , few have been there for years, as we have mostly no kill shelters here. My thought is, adopt whats here, tho not everyone wants that breed of dog, but again, before taking in ones from down south, fix the problem that already exists..

If one wants a specific dog they see from a southern rescue/shelter, well go for it, try to make transport arrangements, but don't keep bringing truck loads of them here when our shelters are already full.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm on the fence about this,,in one way I feel bad for any animal that ends up in a shelter or rescue, however, here in CT our shelters are FULL, mostly with pit/pit mixes , few have been there for years, as we have mostly no kill shelters here. *My thought is, adopt whats here, tho not everyone wants that breed of dog, but again, before taking in ones from down south, fix the problem that already exists..*
> 
> If one wants a specific dog they see from a southern rescue/shelter, well go for it, try to make transport arrangements, but don't keep bringing truck loads of them here when our shelters are already full.


I hear what you are saying Diane. It's the same here. There is only one breed. No choices. I am sorry for the dogs too, but I am never going to adopt that breed. Adopting a southern dog and having it transported to me changes nothing for the shelter dogs here. Unlike many people, I'd rather adopt directly from a shelter than a rescue. That is what works for me. Granted some people think I'm crazy for adopting two shelter dogs, sight unseen. I have no regrets - just two awesome dogs.

As for dogs being imported, I still think it is a good thing. Most of our shelters are also no-kill. Many of the existing dogs do get adopted. Our local SPCA transports dogs from WV shelters. They also take in dogs from local shelters when they have space. Dogs that would have little chance of being adopted and a high chance of being euth'd are now getting a chance at life.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> As for dogs being imported, I still think it is a good thing. Most of our shelters are also no-kill. Many of the existing dogs do get adopted. Our local SPCA transports dogs from WV shelters. They also take in dogs from local shelters when they have space. Dogs that would have little chance of being adopted and a high chance of being euth'd are now getting a chance at life.


see, this is interesting because many shelters in WV are importing dogs from the south while leaving their own facilities full of "local" dogs


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Muskeg said:


> Dog flu outbreaks have been traced to dogs imported from overseas. Disease is just one reason I am against bulk importation of dogs by rescue organizations.
> 
> Also, I just did a quick search on Petfinder- found 4,000-plus GSDs listed, 14,000 Labradors... I think we should focus on the dogs in need locally, first. If those numbers were in the hundreds, perhaps I could support responsible, health-screened import of dogs overseas.
> 
> ...


Incidents like this one is why I'm against the importation. Our dogs already face enough health risks from diseases we presently have, we don't need to add to this. 
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6449a2.htm

Education and spay and neuter programs have helped in many areas, exporting this idea may have a better long term effect on the problem. Culturally it may be an uphill battle, but worth trying imop. It may take years, but you have to start at some point.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Dainerra said:


> see, this is interesting because many shelters in WV are importing dogs from the south while leaving their own facilities full of "local" dogs


I guess it depends where in WV. I know of at least one GSD rescue that pulls German Shepherds from WV. I also think there is a difference between breed specific and other rescues. German Shepherds are generally not going to be rescued and transported from one shelter in bulk. Rescue is also limited to the number of foster homes available.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Nigel said:


> Incidents like this one is why I'm against the importation. Our dogs already face enough health risks from diseases we presently have, we don't need to add to this.
> https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6449a2.htm
> 
> *Education and spay and neuter programs have helped in many areas, exporting this idea may have a better long term effect on the problem. Culturally it may be an uphill battle, but worth trying imop. It may take years, but you have to start at some point.*


It would be nice, but I don't see it happening. I don't think most shelters are going to allow a dog/puppy to be adopted before it is speutered. That's why my pups were speutered at 8 weeks. Shelters can't trust people to do the right thing.

You can read right here the arguments for keeping an animal intact. It is definitely an uphill battle, because there are always going to be people who don't want to speuter their pets, or who insist on breeding any two pet dogs they have. Just the way it is.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

For anyone working with transporting shelters (sending or receiving), there's a bunch of very useful transport information on APSCA Pro (protocols for shelter professionals/rescues), developed by the Association of Shelter Veterinarians:

Transport Best Practices: A 7-Part Webinar Series | ASPCA Professional 

There's a "best practices" document, transport checklist, as well as a 7-part webinar. There are protocols for both ends of the transport. If you're in a place that receives dogs, push for compliance with the ASV's "best practices" if your local receiving shelters aren't already in compliance. Educate small rescues that arrange private transports to strive for "best practices" too. 

There's even grant money administered through ASPCA Pro to help small, cash-strapped shelters that are sending dogs and cats comply with pre-transport vetting protocols. Many such shelters lack a grant writer, so this is an area where a little volunteering can go a long way -- that volunteering can even be done by someone with suitable skills in the receiving community, to help out the sending community (which may be rural and lack volunteer resources):
Animal Relocation and Transport | ASPCA Professional

These are evidence-based, research-driven protocols that get updated every 6 months by the ASV veterinarians. ("Shelter medicine" is a vet speciality focused on disease and population management, as well as care of shelter animals.)


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