# Earthborn holistic ok for 5 month?



## Ayla (Oct 11, 2012)

I figured I'd ask since I've decided to switch, Keira was on a crappy puppy food when we picked her up. I slowly switched her to eukanuba large breed puppy food. And I've been trying to find a better all life stages or large breed puppy food and couldn't decide between trying canidea or earthborn... Ultimately I finally decided earthborn holistic primitive naturals would be better. I've been trying to slowly get her on a grain free five star food. I switched my chihuahua to a 5 star too fast and it upset his stomach. Though I'm reading about the calcium and protein in earthborn being too high for puppies? Should I keep it half and half for awhile?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Most of the Earthborn formulas are fine for puppies except their primitive natural formula. Don't worry about the protein, but there's too much calcium for a growing large breed puppy. 

Their other three grain free formulas are fine. I believe they're all lower in calcium.


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## RedR327 (Dec 15, 2012)

That food is not appropriate for a puppy. 12% Ash (minerals like calcium and phosphorous) is dangerous for adult dogs let alone a puppy. The protein in that food is wildly overstated. Yes it looks like a high protein food but much of the gross protein is picked up from all the bone in those meals. That is a low quality food. The other GF foods are also high in ash 8 -10% and have a lot of vegetable protein from peas.

I would keep her on Euk LBP.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Agreed on the high ash in the chicken formula, but how does the amount of bone add to the protein?

And is 8% considered high ash? I'd have the double check the numbers, but I'm pretty sure their other formulas are a lot closer to that 8% number then 10%. They're all much lower in calcium than the chicken primitive formula.


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## Sawwahbear (Dec 11, 2012)

Hmm, I would love more information about this brand, I was under the impression that it was one of the better dog foods available. 

this review gave it 5 stars: Earthborn Holistic Grain Free Dog Food | Review and Rating (grain free)

also, wouldn't a puppy need more calcium then an adult?


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## Ayla (Oct 11, 2012)

Thank you and I was under the impression is was one of the better. Some posts I've found on here even advise it as better dog food. Among Fromm canidea totw etc. any information would be good. I've done a fair amount of research an was looking for opinions as the food is listed as an all life stages. 


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Sawwahbear said:


> also, wouldn't a puppy need more calcium then an adult?


They need the right amount of protein. Calcium promotes bone growth. 

Think how fast these large breed dogs grow in such a short time. Think how much they grow in size in the fast year. Specifically in those first 8 months.

Slow and steady bone growth is what you're aiming for with these large breeds. A diet that has too much calcium may speed up the process causing problems with the dog - pano, HD, etc.

Play it safe and feed a kibble that has less calcium than one that is high in calcium. That's just my perspective on the subject.



Ayla said:


> I've done a fair amount of research an was looking for opinions as the food is listed as an all life stages.


It is an ALS formula, but that's according to AAFCO's standards. AAFCO has a very wide range with what they fine acceptable for dogs. 

For the most part you are correct, most ALS formulas are fine for large breed puppies, EXCEPT the one high in calcium. Those ALS should be avoided until the dog is fully grown.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

It is a good food, it is one that I have thought of switching to. 
I didn't use it when my pup was younger because of the higher protein and the calcium levels.
Sawwahbear, you don't want higher calcium levels in a growing pup, That is why a lot of companies make large breed specific puppy food to adjust for the calcium and phosphorus levels. I also didn't like high protein levels because my pup was prone to Pano and that is also thought to conribute to it.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

Protein level is largely unimportant, especially if it comes from meat sources. High protein from legumes like peas is questionable as a dog's digestive system is less equipped to utilize it than protein from meat. Some dogs don't do well on higher protein foods though and will have digestive issues which can manifest in chronic loose stools and diarrhea. Our pup has done exceptionally well on a food with 38% protein, so it really depends on the puppy. 

The most important thing to look at when choosing a food for a GSD, or any large breed, puppy is calcium (and to a lesser extent the ratio of calcium to phosphorus) as has been stated already. A food that is high in ash will almost always be high in calcium as well as much of that ash content is a high concentration of bone in the meat meals used ... bone contains lots of calcium. 

I certainly wouldn't consider 8% ash high, but I think anything over 10% ash is getting pretty close to being too high, especially for a large breed puppy. Earthborn Holistic does have a few grain-free formulas that would be appropriate for a GSD puppy, but Primitive Natural is not one of them.


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## Ayla (Oct 11, 2012)

Ok so I should simply look into possibly one of their others? I would like to get her on a better diet, she went from one star to a three star and now I would like to start her on a five star. What about earthborn great plains feast? An thank you for explaining all of this, it's hard to find the levels on the food.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

The Coastal Catch, Great Plains Feast, or Meadow Feast would all be better choices than the Primitive Natural formula for a GSD puppy. 

I put together a pretty extensive spreadaheet of quite a few different foods with lots of nutritional info. If you're interested in taking a look you can find it here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AsBcSQ8_xK_ndDRkYWo3NmRSWEl4T1NuX290bG5ULVE&output=html

It may help in selecting a food for your pup.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I've been using Earthborne Holistic for about 6 months, I think I've tried several different "flavors". Kiya is the only one who seems to keep having bouts of soft stools since the change. My finicky 10 yr old really seems to like the food. Lakota seems to like it and I've had no issues with her on it.


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## RedR327 (Dec 15, 2012)

Ken Clean-Air System said:


> Protein level is largely unimportant, especially if it comes from meat sources. High protein from legumes like peas is questionable as a dog's digestive system is less equipped to utilize it than protein from meat. Some dogs don't do well on higher protein foods though and will have digestive issues which can manifest in chronic loose stools and diarrhea. Our pup has done exceptionally well on a food with 38% protein, so it really depends on the puppy.
> 
> The most important thing to look at when choosing a food for a GSD, or any large breed, puppy is calcium (and to a lesser extent the ratio of calcium to phosphorus) as has been stated already. A food that is high in ash will almost always be high in calcium as well as much of that ash content is a high concentration of bone in the meat meals used ... bone contains lots of calcium.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't consider 8% ash high, but I think anything over 10% ash is getting pretty close to being too high, especially for a large breed puppy. Earthborn Holistic does have a few grain-free formulas that would be appropriate for a GSD puppy, but Primitive Natural is not one of them.


I would consider 8% - 10% ash high when peas and pea protein contribute so much to the total protein of the diet like they do in Earthborn. It tells you the grade of animal protein is very low. Those Earthborn diets could have as much as 50% protein from legumes and legume concetrates.

Even Eukanuba's 30% protein food is way less than 7% and there are no vegetable concentrates in that food. Dr. Tim's has a 35% protein food with about 95% protein from animal sources, no vegetable concentrates, which is a max 6% ash.

When you account for Pea Protein, the animal sources look pretty bad in a lot of foods. Might as well use corn gluten.


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