# Is the top running speed of a GSD related to size?



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I was wondering if the size of a GSD has any influence on its ability to generate speed? 

Do you think a 60 pound GSD would generally run faster than a 100 pound GSD?
Common sense tells me that a heavier dog may get a slower start, but I'm talking about overall top speed.

Kira (IMO) seems to be extremely fast. The few dog friends she has, cannot keep up with her. We've done some frisbee chases, and did long distance tennis ball launches, and Kira clearly outruns her Golden friend, and her 90 pound GSD friend.

Using video, and some mathematical computations, it appears that she runs (at full speed) somewhere between 25-30 mph.
Could this be possible? I intend to use a radar gun in the near future 

Anyone ever clock the top speed?


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## Kaiser2012 (Mar 12, 2012)

No clue but I do know that Kaisers greyhound friend barely catches him in a 100yd sprint (or thereabouts) and kaiser is 77lbs.

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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

Im not sure it actually has to do with weight per se... my last GSD Diesel she was FAST! She was 22/23 Inches at the shoulder and weighed in at 45lbs by 2 years I have a bike computer it tells me how far I have gone in a session as well as how fast I am going. I would bike with Diesel and I was having a hard time keeping up with her if she was off leash fastest we went was 43kms/hr. She was faster than her friend who was a 50lb collie and was around the same height, she was faster than the mastiffe lab cross that was her buddy that was around 60lbs and again same height, she was faster than the neighbors Doberman and Rottweiler who clearly out weighed her and towered over her.... So I do not think size is a relevant to correlation to speed. 

Penny on the other hand, is the same weight as Diesel is roughtly 45lbs and is 21" at the shoulder and she is much slower than Diesel was, now the speed may come with age as Penny gets older she may get faster but Diesel was fast even at the same age as Penny is now. 

I think speed isnt something that should be compared to anything it is by individual bases only... Same with humans my friend and I are roughly same height and weight but I can run faster than she can so its has nothing to do with size


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

I'd say more conformation than weight.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Interesting question, I think it has more to do with the dogs overall structure rather than size. Annie is faster than Harley, she's two inches taller, he's longer in the body. She runs different, really pushes with her back legs/feet, digs in. (can't think of a better way to describe it) Never paid much attention to what's going on with her front end, now I'm curious.

Do you have a video of Kira running with the other dogs than you can put in slow motion? Be interesting to see if you can spot the differences between dogs.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

ayoitzrimz said:


> I'd say more conformation than weight.


I would agree. 
By speed, what distance are you talking about?
There is speed and there is quickness.
My friend has a smaller GSD that is quicker than mine but if there is a little
distance involved (40 yards or so) mine goes galloping by the smaller one.
Naturally, the smaller dog achieves her top speed sooner.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

In this case, it was a 100 yard football field. The dogs went all out from goal to goal.

The larger 90 LB GSD was taking larger strides, and obviously moving slower. I didn't expect this. I thought the weight / strength ratio would be relative. I expected the larger dog to move faster because of the combination of larger stride, and muscle mass.

Kira outran the larger dog by 20+ yards.
Of course fitness levels come into play. Kira is a fetch freak 

Her 100 yard dash was 7.38 seconds = 27.72 mph

I'm going to recreate and video. It was interesting.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

a fit athletic working line gsd can reach up to 30mph still not as fast as a average fit house cat at top speed and no wear near the speed of a coyote or red fox

how funny is that (the cat part) but they can overtake a cat in endurance really fast

special cats like egptian maus, abby, bengal and some siamese will leave a gsd in the dust

It still seems gsd is faster than most canines out there not pointers or dobermans thats for sure.

Size does not mean much i have seen very speedy small 60 pound female czech bitch and slow 90 pound male and then vice versa


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

Interesting question. I think that factors other than just conformation probably come into play, though. I've roughly timed my girls running a 600 yard Coursing Ability Test. Leo, my then 15 month old GSD, who is 22.5 inches and weighs 52 pounds, ran it in 70 seconds, which translates to around 17 MPH. Ilka, my three year old mutt, who is 22 inches tall, and weighs 48 pounds, ran the same course in 28 seconds, which translates to just over 40 MPH. Of the two, Ilka is by _far_ the higher drive dog.


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## LoveOscar (Feb 4, 2013)

I know Oscar is quick. He loves to run and sprints circles around my yard. Now I want to clock him! He really gets long and low when he digs in. I think hes about 21 at the shoulder (he wont stand still for measurements lol) and around 75 lbs according to the vets paperwork. Its really interesting, knowing and wondering how fast they are because they arent considered speed dogs.

LO


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

LoveOscar said:


> I know Oscar is quick. He loves to run and sprints circles around my yard. Now I want to clock him! He really gets long and low when he digs in. I think hes about 21 at the shoulder (he wont stand still for measurements lol) and around 75 lbs according to the vets paperwork. Its really interesting, knowing and wondering how fast they are because they arent considered speed dogs.
> 
> LO


Hehe... Sounds like fun.

She probably hit a higher top speed.

Don't forget, I timed her run from start to finish. She may have started slowly, or slowed down slightly at the end. 
I'd like to see what I can get off a radar.


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## LoveOscar (Feb 4, 2013)

Anthony8858 said:


> Hehe... Sounds like fun.
> 
> She probably hit a higher top speed.
> 
> ...


Id love to know what you find out. DH thinks Oscar is capable of 20+ mph but we have no idea of his top speed. He isnt drive oriented, just loves to run as his variety of play.

LO


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

how fit is kira and how high is her energy level? compared to other shepherds her age/size ? is she working? just curious? I expect a lot of sheps make it over 30mph the more fit working ones.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

pets4life said:


> how fit is kira and how high is her energy level? compared to other shepherds her age/size ? is she working? just curious? I expect a lot of sheps make it over 30mph the more fit working ones.


She's not a working line. She's a show line. She gets daily exercise, and it usually involves long fetch tosses. She has one or two regular dog friends that I'll occasionally meet up with.

I would rate her fitness level as excellent. Her drive is not over the top, but I could ramp her up during her training sessions. Good, quiet temperament. Not overly demanding.

She's not large. She's barely 60 pounds, and lean.

I don't think she's any faster than any other GSD, but was wondering if larger GSD's tend to be slower.

Here's a recent picture. It doesn't show much, but it may give you an idea of how she's built.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'll just answer this based on my experiences with flyball. In flyball, the fastest dog is a Whippet. I won't get into all the reasons but in general, it's important to remember that dogs are faster on land than in the air. A larger, *longer* dog (like a GSD) has more "hang time" in the air and struggles to triple stride in front of the box (for most it's just impossible). I don't know that weight matters other than the overall physical condition and stamina of the dog, but a GSD that is more square in proportion and shorter coupled is going to be faster, all things equal. Malinois put up some crazy times but very few GSDs that are the same height and weight can challenge them. The same is true in agility....why are medium sized dogs like BCs faster than GSD...you'd think the bigger dog has more power and thus more forward momentum and speed but that's not how it works. The BC's feet hit the ground way more often than a GSD, thus he is naturally faster. I don't know if I'm making any sense. It is not really about size as in weight but the conformation and the *proportions* of the dog. Also I think excess bone cuts down on speed. A dog that is too fine (as in, lacking muscle) can't seem to generate the same power. That's why in flyball often Border Staffies are faster than Border Collies.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I'll just answer this based on my experiences with flyball. In flyball, the fastest dog is a Whippet. I won't get into all the reasons but in general, it's important to remember that dogs are faster on land than in the air. A larger, *longer* dog (like a GSD) has more "hang time" in the air and struggles to triple stride in front of the box (for most it's just impossible). I don't know that weight matters other than the overall physical condition and stamina of the dog, but a GSD that is more square in proportion and shorter coupled is going to be faster, all things equal. Malinois put up some crazy times but very few GSDs that are the same height and weight can challenge them. The same is true in agility....why are medium sized dogs like BCs faster than GSD...you'd think the bigger dog has more power and thus more forward momentum and speed but that's not how it works. The BC's feet hit the ground way more often than a GSD, thus he is naturally faster. I don't know if I'm making any sense. It is not really about size as in weight but the conformation and the *proportions* of the dog. Also I think excess bone cuts down on speed. A dog that is too fine (as in, lacking muscle) can't seem to generate the same power. That's why in flyball often Border Staffies are faster than Border Collies.


All makes sense. Thank you.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My female is tall, lean and like a bullet. People always say something about how fast she is, especially in agility. The male is about 3-4 inches shorter then her and they weigh the same. He is quick, but I still think she is quicker. Its an interesting question. In agility they always stressed the lean part.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm thinking the Greyhound isn't trying to catch or run faster
than Kaiser.



Kaiser2012 said:


> No clue but I do know that Kaisers greyhound friend barely catches him in a 100yd sprint (or thereabouts) and kaiser is 77lbs.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

speed is a matter of how fast a muscle can flex.


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## NoVAGSDGuy (Mar 7, 2011)

Sometimes my girl surprises me with her speed, most people think she is little (24-25 inches at the shoulder and 70 pounds), but when out biking my street is like a half mile long and I will get going on the bike as fast as I can and just fly down the hill. Well the first few times we did she would keep up. Then one time I noticed her looking to the side of the road, she jumped over in the grass where she could dig in and she just flew past me like I was standing still.....I had to just laugh.


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## Chicxulub (May 27, 2013)

I would guess that for agility, the ability to make sudden, quick changes in direction, and for acceleration, a smaller dog would likely have an advantage.

However, for either maximum sprinting speed or sustained speeds over long distances, I would feel that the physical fitness of the dogs in question would be more of a factor than would the size.


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## argonne (Nov 16, 2012)

I clocked my 80lb Shepherd/Dobe mix Cody at 32 mph repeatedly in his prime. Cody was a tall lanky dog that lived to be 14. The fastest dog I encountered besides him (research subjects were farm dogs chasing my motorcycle, lots of them) was a collie that did 26 mph for almost 1/8th of a mile before giving up. :smirk:

(Couldn't resist re-igniting this thread with my hard data and all...sorry.)


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## bill (Nov 8, 2013)

Years ago when my boys were young; we had a 68 lb am. Bulldog that would run beside a bike"3 miles to 5 miles a day. We had a 18 lb. Rat terrier that was my boys. The bulldog was fast. We let them race: the rat terrier blew her away; he was leaving dust trails like speedy Gonzalez. they raced 100 yards.

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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Physics pretty much says top speed has to be related to size.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

You can have 2 identically sized GSD's and one may be 2x faster than the next. Here is one on his 3rd long bite after a full Schh3 routine so much slower as compared to when on fresh batteries.

GnashJan2012Longbite - YouTube


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Didn't say it was everything. Size isn't everything. 


Before any of you can beat me to it...
And that's what she said.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

A "pedal to the medal" pic


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Anthony8858 said:


> Do you think a 60 pound GSD would generally run faster than a 100 pound GSD?


speaking from experience, in a flat out straight away, my 60lb Heidi, stays ahead of 100lb Max, barley through, if there is any turning left or right, Heidi can trun on a dime, Max has no chance


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I always thought the saying was pedal to the metal....cars didn't have carpet back when the term was coined.
I have larger structured dogs, and one is extremely fast when he wants to be, and he can stop on a dime and turn on a dime. But he doesn't compare in speed to one of his relatives who weighs about 35# less and 4" shorter than him. She is a little pocket rocket(Heidi). Her legs are much shorter too.

I think agility and speed go hand in hand, but real speed is amazing with this breed. I love to watch the smaller structured GSD's fly down the field for a ball, it makes me cringe on the courage tests!


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