# I think it's time to find a new vet!



## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

First off I would like to say I spent a good amount of time researching before putting my puppy on a raw diet. I started with just boring RMB (chicken necks) and some MM for the first two weeks before I started adding more things. I started grinding up some veggies like parsley, brocolli, beets, carrots with raw hamburger meat and some missing link for the omega 3s in large batches, then portioning it out for his breakfasts, for dinner he usually gets chicken backs or chicken necks. 

Kai went to the vet today and my girlfriend told her (the Vet) we took him off dry food and put him on raw. Then she (the vet) goes off on a tantrum saying the prepacked raw foods arent that good because of preservatives, we tried to explain at least 3 times that we were making the food ourselves.
Then she proceeds to give us like 8 different samples of doog foods and freeze dried foods, the whole time trying to explain that raw food is not good for his bones at such a young age. Then she basically said that we arent capable of creating the proper balance of food he needs. 

I am extremely upset with this vet right now. I mean how can all the articles I have read and breeders I spoke with and people on these forums be wrong and her be right? 

I can understand she has a business to run and all but dont sit there and shove your products down our throats. I have seen the difference it made with Grimm and other dogs. And I have noticed the changes in my dog and they are amazing.

His coat is less wirey and softer
less stool
better breath
even energy level (not hyper all the time)
that dog smell is almost non existant
clean teeth

oh and most important I think is Kai doesnt have a diaherria blowout everytime he craps. His stool is harder now and I can actually pick it all up.

Overall he is a happier dog, I can see it in him.

This guy I work with said not to worry about what she thinks because Vets study the internal systems of a dog, they are not nutritionists.

ok I am done venting. Sorry


----------



## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Most vets recieve thier nutrition training for the "experts" at Hills. They have about 16 hours of class work in nutrition. 

Althought I would never question a vet's education, I can and do question thier advice from time to time. 

I don't feed raw but I do feed grain free and as your friend said, you are seeing the results in Kai. You cna chose to ignore her "advice" and do as you please and simply not tell her what you are fedding or finda new vet.

If you are overall happy with the vet I would just ignore her advice in the dietary area.


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Raw is a touchy subject for a lot of vets...I partially think it has to do with us, the owners, acutally taking an active role in our pet's nutrition/health and not running to the vet for advice and being more knowledgable than them on the nutritional subject. 

Anyway, if you think this will harm your relationship with your vet, you might want to look at getting a new one. But most vets aren't on board with raw so don't be suprised by their reactions. If it's a good vet and you can ignore this, then do that. My vet and I just agree to disagree (after a tense conversation) and we don't talk about it, other than that he's awesome. 

Oh, and take all the food she gave you and donate it to a shelter, I'm sure they'd appreciate it!


----------



## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: aubie
> 
> Oh, and take all the food she gave you and donate it to a shelter, I'm sure they'd appreciate it!


Excellent Idea. gonna do that tonight.


----------



## Winkin (Feb 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Slaenthey are not nutritionists.


Bingo.

Just as I don't seek nutritional advice from my Doctor/Primary Care Physician, I don't ask my Vet for nutritional advice for my dogs.

I don't know why people assume Doctor/Vet and Nutritionist go hand-in-hand, because they don't.


----------



## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Don't worry. When it comes to nutrition they don't know much...
If you need proof look at Lauri's dogs and all the other long time raw feeders whose dogs are in excellent health.
Now take a look at Puppy Chow puppies and look at how they grow up. Ear infections, tons of shedding, diarrhea meds, hotspots etc. 

I really do believe that we've lengthened our dogs lifespan through raw feeding. Not only that, but we've made it healthier and helped them feel better.


----------



## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

If you like this vet & clinic, I'd try to get her (& them) to consider that raw is NOT the Great Evil!
Start a dog journal/diary & document her foods, poops, health, appearance, smell factor etc etc - take photos, bring your pup in for all her checks etc to one vet at the clinic so that that individual can see how well your pup is doing.

At the end of your pup's journey to adulthood (year 2-3), ask if you can leave a copy of this diary in the waiting room for other clients to look at - hopefully by now, your vet will no longer be experiencing the "Fear Factor".
At the same time, document all the recalls & commercial food incidents - the bigs ones make the papers, the little ones are kept v hush by the industry & food will just be quietly removed from all the store shelves ...
As to the dehydrated foods, they are NOT sterilized in any way, insect infestation should always be checked on these & there are some bacterial issues just as with kibbles.

If you do decide to go elsewhere, please do write a letter to the clinic & veterinary board letting them know that the lack of professionalism is why you are leaving: that education/learning requires an open mind & you cannot see your dog receiving the best of care given the closed mind displayed by that vet- will she have the same attitude when it comes to new surgical etc treatments as well ???


----------



## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Denali, the post on Grimm and after looking at Lauri's dogs was the reason I swtiched to raw. Kai never ever took interest in eating his kibble, when I pull his food out now he whines until I make him sit then I give it to him.

Alto,

It was almost impossible to get her to understand that we were making the food in bulk and storing it in a freezer until I needed to thaw out the food for use. 

Exactly my thoughts too Alto, her attitude on this is also making me wonder what her attitude on surgery is like.

I will try and see if I can leave a diary.
Thanks for the ideas


----------



## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

My vet didn't give me a hard time, just asked that I cook it a little to kill some of the bacteria etc. that may be on/in it because let's face it, we don't know where our meat has been before it got to our store or who handled it from animal being killed to shelf at store. (In most cases). I agreed and do cook halfway what meat I give them. I quit my job in the meat department recently after five years and know a few practices I'd rather not about hamburger for instance. Unless it is a roast I had ground or pre-made patties, I cook hamburger thoroughly.


----------



## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

LOL I SO don't miss picking up Lou's poops with a facemask and shovel since switching to raw!!! (I'm kidding, i didn't actually use a facemask but boyyy some days wished I did!)


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Vets won't see as many dogs if they are healthy because of the great nutrition they are getting on raw!
My vet(over 25 yrs I'd been going there) did the same rant on me when Kacie got a bug last Fall. She was so tunnel-visioned on the diet I fed, she wouldn't get past it to see what was really causing her illness. I thought it was because she was drinking the water from my pond plants(we were beginning to overwinter them and the dogs kept drinking from the pool they were in) Vet said this would not cause diarrhea or her vomiting. I still believe that was the cause. I have since changed vets, now this one is ok w/ the diet I feed, she also is ok with my vaccine schedule, though I get lectured that I should do the "Lymes" vax everytime I've brought Karlo for his puppy shots(she must not remember she already gave me that pitch)The tech there wanted to give Karlo his rabies w/ his 3rd set of vaccines(he was only 16 weeks old!) I mailed them the Jean Dodd's vaccination protocol(not sure if it made a difference)...


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

KimcMA, by cooking your dog's food "just a little" you are destroying a log of the natural enzyimes that are one of the reasons that a raw diet is so beneficial. 
Plus cooking it just a bit may cause the bones to become just brittle enough to cause harm. 

I wouldn't go against the years of success of raw feeding by so many on this board, and thousands of healthy raw fed dogs all over because some people have a hard time NOT comparing dogs to people and project their worries and fears onto them. 

Be strong and have faith! RAW all the way!!









If you haven't read it already, I recommend Ian Billinghurst's book "Give your dog a Bone". A book on raw feeding written by a VET!! Imagine that! A vet who feeds his own dogs a raw diet, and nowhere does he recomend "just cooking the meat a little".


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

If you worry about ground beef/meats there are tons of other MM you can feed...my new fave is beef heart. When I ordered it it came in precut strips and was easy to cut into servings. I have to say, it looked "good" almost like steak! I also tried beef gullet. 

There are a lot of MM's you can try if you want to stay away from ground meats...and they are oftentimes cheaper. I got the 5lb beef heart for $6 and the 3lb gullet for $3, way cheaper than ground beef/turkey.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: KimcMA..... I quit my job in the meat department recently after five years and know a few practices I'd rather not about hamburger for instance. Unless it is a roast I had ground or pre-made patties, I cook hamburger thoroughly.


If I were feeding raw, I don't think that I would feed pre-ground food either -- those are typically the meats where all the nasty stuff is when they do the recalls.

BUT, most of the experience here is nothing but good.....


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Or you can buy your own grinder. They aren't that expensive.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Dogs are designed to eat.. well... bacteria!







Yuck, huh!







While dogs are designed to eat long-dead squirrels, raccoon poop, and things too gross to type here, if we feed raw, we are feeding fresh, human-grade, inspected foods. We actually have to ADD "yuck" to the food, because the living and dead bodies of bacteria provide critical nutrients for dogs (oh, NO!! is THAT why they eat the raccoon poop??







) digestion. So, we add brewer's yeast and yogurt and even sometimes green tripe. Then we can REALLY see our dog's coats looking glossy, because the gross-out "bugs" increase absorption of other nutrients in the diet. It has a disgusting kinda logic.









Cooking the food destroys viable enzymes, denatures bone, makes nurtients less bio-available, etc. So, we feed it raw and feel safe and happy to see them doing well!









Also, ground up head meat, lung, trachea, feet, guts, etc all are pluses when it comes to your dog's raw diet.







Gross, huh?









PS-- Yesssss!!! Ian Billinghurst's "Give Your Dog a Bone" is my favorite, too!!







Talk about an easy read!


----------



## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I _love_ the way you help put new raw feeders at ease, Patti!


----------



## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Ok so the Vet just called me AGAIN warning me against the raw diet.

Telling me the sample freeze dried foods she gave us are manadatory and I have to add them to the raw diet or Kai will have weak bones and will grow wrong. 

This lady is really starting to annoy me. She asked what we are putting in for suppliments. I said we give him a mixture of veggies, salmon oil, vitamin E, some pumpkin, yogurt and cottage cheese. Obviously not all at once and in portions.

AGAIN she states I dont know what I am doing and tells me I need to add this stuff or I am going to hurt my puppy. 



GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I would be finding a new vet if I were really determined to feed a raw diet.

While my vet is not "pro raw," he understands this is how I feed my dogs and does not have a problem with it. When Leyna had an upset stomach he even mentioned homecooking instead of recommending the prescription diets because he knows how I feel about feeding.


----------



## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

One, if the vet was calling and pestering me to basically buy what she sells I'd say thank you but we're finding another vet. Back off.

Two, if she's such an expert, have her guide you to where she's getting her info from. What says you have to add the freeze dried stuff? Where is she getting her supplement info from? What has she read/studied that has made her an expert on raw feeding? What exactly is in the freeze dried stuff that has such nutritional value that it needs to be added to a raw diet? What proportions should be added based on the weight/adult weight of a pup and how will this affect the proportions you already have measured out for raw?

That should shut her up.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Quote:if she's such an expert, have her guide you to where she's getting her info from


perfect! When I asked my vet about raw, he thought it was a good idea for the dogs but a very bad idea with small kids in the house. LOL, I'm no Martha Stewart if they sold kid kibble, I'd buy it. Wait, my oldest eats Fromm Duck and sweet potato becuase according to him 'I like it. Tastes good!'


----------



## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Also she said.. Is that Salmon Oil for dogs or people?

I mean seriously, cmon..


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SlaenOk so the Vet just called me AGAIN warning me against the raw diet.
> 
> Telling me the sample freeze dried foods she gave us are manadatory and I have to add them to the raw diet or Kai will have weak bones and will grow wrong.
> 
> ...


Wow...can you say Telemarketer???? I would inform her that I do not need her calling me and I will be looking for a different vet. I would also inform her to do some research. Exactly what does she think dogs have ate for several thousand years?


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

I don't know- I see it both ways. . .

The vet seems to just be trying to help, caring about the dog's well being. Frankly if I was a vet and someone told me they were feeding home made I would be concerned as well. There are just so many variables, but of course I would ask questions instead of claiming your wrong and that freeze dried was right.

If I were you I would take to the vet the nutritional requirements of puppy's and a breakdown of your diet which shows that those nutritional needs are in fact being met and that the nutrients most important for healthy growth are in the proper ratios. 

If that didn't put her mind at ease then I would stop trying. If you do not have that info then perhaps the vet is right to question as how can you claim it is the right foods if you don't know what they contribute.


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: SlaenAlso she said.. Is that Salmon Oil for dogs or people


Was she just asking whether you use a human or dog version? There are products marketing for both and both people and dogs take it so. . . just wondering what is the issue with the question?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It is probably freeze dried raw, correct? All pre-balanced and ready to go? Like these things? http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm#freeze%20dried%20disks

And Natalie strikes a nice balance in terms of a way to look at this.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The main problem is no matter what you say, do or show her the first time your dog is sick she WILL blame it on the diet.

I would be looking for a new vet.


----------



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

If this vet is truly against raw, then yes, I must agree with Lauri and suspect that at the first sign of illness, the diet may be blamed.









But if this is a vet who is worried that a client is going to feed raw and has not done _enough_ research, then it's a good thing







she's trying to get a handle on what supplements you are using. She could be helpful, either for your dog, or the next new raw feeder's dog, if she has good insight into this. 

Some folks go on the net, _briefly_ read a bit about raw, then charge right into "feeding raw" by feeding a chicken quarter. Each meal. All the time. Nothing else. Ever. Talk about severely constipated, itchy dogs who aren't getting balance in their diets. Or, people who don't do much research and feed raw, but "cook it just a little" (even with the bones in







). Or a gazillion other beginner mistakes so easily fixed by more research.

You may have done tons of good research before starting... but the next raw feeder may not have done so, so maybe it's good she's filling clients in as much as she can, if she knows her stuff.

Remember, the vet has no idea where you are getting your info, if it is about creating a balanced diet, and if you've done much research at all. 

Anyone feeding raw has usually done SOME research. But if it isn't enough, then maybe the vet is trying to be sure the dog has what it needs for a balanced diet over time.


----------



## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

We have two vets in our office. One is against raw. The other is not for or against it...she is willing to accept that maybe it is ok and not going to kill my dog.

The one against it gave me the huge lecture before even examining Mandi. Then she started looking at her and started commenting on how nice and plaque free her teeth are and how nice her coat feels, etc etc. I just told her that it all changed when she started on raw (and Mandalay doesnt even get all raw - she gets kibble, too). I tried to explain how the bones/meat help keep her teeth so clean and the vet told me they were going to break her teeth. I said nothing and by the time we left my tongue was bleeding from me biting it.

The other vet weighed pros and cons with me, made sure Mandi was getting a balanced diet, made sure I knew not to throw her a big hunk of bone and leave for the day so she could risk laying there choking all day, and then commented how a lot of the raw fed dogs she sees have nicer coats, teeth, etc.

If you really like this vet, bite your tongue and only go when you have to. If you dont, start looking for a new one. Maybe some RAW fed groups in your area can suggest one.


----------



## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

I find it interesting that this Vet is so adamant about what you are feeding your puppy. I've had more Vet visits in my lifetime that I care to count...and only ONE time did a Vet ask ME what I was feeding! Now, I have asked them what they recommend, and subsequently opened the proverbial can of worms!







They never think RAW is a good idea, prepackaged, grocery store bought or direct from Hunters. It seems so silly when they stick to their guns about the evils of RAW when they are complementing the fabulous condition of your pets!









I might look around for another Vet, if I were in your postion, you need to have an easier relationship with the person that is going to be your pups doctor.


----------



## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

My vet gave me a sample of... what was it... Iams I think it was LOL one of the WORST pet foods out there now, I haven't mentioned raw to her as of yet but haven't been back in months since Lou is so healthy since she is eating raw







tells about marketing, just like how the drug companies market to the hospitals. It really does pay to do your own research and "get out of the loop"







I won't switch Lou back for anything she is doing so great on her raw!


----------

