# Biting and not letting go. What's the safest way to pry him off???



## voodoolamb

Ok. I know GSD puppies bite. Heck I even named my guy after a shark after having him for 3 days. 

We've focused on bite inhibition and 90% of the time he is soft when he bites, even so we do a lot of redirection to toys. A little "ah ah" and then a ton of praise when he switches to the toy followed by a game of tug with said toy. When he gets too worked up and is being a monster the fun and games end until he has calmed enough for impulse control. 

The past 3 days though Mako has made a new game of latching on and _not _letting go. 

The other day he pounced on my foot. I lifted my leg and up came the pup along with it. He had paws around my ankle and had gripped down on my pant leg. Lucky for me he had mostly cloth. I lowered my leg so he could have paws on the ground and I tried to redirect to his tug toy. He didn't stop until he had ripped a big hole in the fabric and tore a piece off. Then he happily tried to play tug. 

Last night he was playing with my boyfriend while I was cooking dinner. All of a sudden I hear this horrible mean growly yell from my bf. "GET OFF!!!". I came running out. Thinking that there was a home invasion of some sort. The yell he let out scared me and I was a room away. He is a big guy and has a very deep baritone voice. I get to the living room just in time to see Mako latched onto his hand and him attempting to FLING the pup off. Mako's grip slipped and he tumbled down. As soon Mako popped back up to his feet he was charging right back at my signif. His hand was pretty mangled. Looked like a mini freddy kreuger attack. And yes he got a bit of an ear full about the flinging thing. 

Just this afternoon I was playing tug with the little landshark. He came running up to grab the toy then at the last second nabbed my wrist instead. My yelping in pain didn't work. So I tried to make my hand "dead" and not fun while flipping the toy around in the other hand trying to make it seem much more interesting. That didn't work. I even resorted to a splash of water. Nope. Just made him clamp down harder. I had to pry his little jaws off of my wrist. 

He is even doing it with the other dogs. He latched onto a tail and wouldn't let go. The adult dog gave a pretty harsh correction. Mako let out a yelp. But was going after the adult again pretty much immediately.

What should I do? - aside from investing my life savings in the company that makes neosporin I mean  We've upped the exercise, and tried bitter apple (Which he happily licks off). Any ideas on how to get him to let go? Is there a safe way to pry puppy jaws apart if he does this again? I'm worried about hurting him. :help:


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## eddie1976E

stick your finger in his mouth and press on the back of his tongue. Or use a pencil if you value your fingers


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## DutchKarin

Uh-oh, you have one of those dogs! ;-) I had one too. Get ready to lose some clothing and blood. Hey, you got a GSD, that was your choice. (I'm saying this with levity).
I am assuming this is a youngster? 

First, this is within normal range of behavior. Second, DO NOT put a pencil in the puppies mouth.

Generally you want to redirect to things you are okay with him biting. So have toys, chews, ropes and rags that you can quickly redirect him with rapid movement of the toy. Simultaneously, you must learn to not react to him when he is clamped on your body or clothing. He will be naturally stimulated to hold on if you start thrashing. Hold still, grab the toy and move it so he is stimulated by the toy and redirects. Do this OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. He will learn what is appropriate to chew.

If you need to, what I have done is take my index finger and from the top side of the muzzle wrap his lip over his own teeth. In effect he is biting his own lip and that hurts. He will release. 

Ideally... I always say this but it is the ideal, find a trainer that knows protection breeds and how to harness this puppy energy for the good. It is nice to have an engaging puppy, but you need to learn to redirect it and get what you want from it. I think the best way to do this is finding a trainer and working one-on-one. I'm much more ambivalent about group classes than I used to be. 

Be consistent with this type of dog. Consistency and fairness. Also if he can't behave around other dogs. Make certain he is on lead. Watch on youtube some of Michael Ellis's videos on puppy engagement. Also this dog will need lots of exercise by the sound of it. Buy some running shoes. ;-)


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## Lilie

I don't stick my fingers into puppy's mouths unless I'm applying an emergency technique to remove an object that is being swallowed. 

I'll cover their eyes and wait them out. The moment they let go, I re-direct. If great pain is involved, I'll cover their eyes and blow softly onto their face. That tends to expedite the process. But if you do so, make sure they don't jump and re-direct onto your nose.


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## eddie1976E

Clearly I missed a " or  or " at the end of my pencil comment. However, I have used a finger on the tongue to get a dog to let go. I don't think in this case redirection will work....I'm sure the OP would have done that first. Once the dog lets go, give him a toy...but getting him to let go was the original issue. 

I would not, repeat, not stick a pencil in the puppies mouth.


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## dogma13

Another idea is a spray can of compressed air.Spray the body not the face.


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## voodoolamb

Thank you everyone!



eddie1976E said:


> Clearly I missed a " or  or " at the end of my pencil comment. However, I have used a finger on the tongue to get a dog to let go. I don't think in this case redirection will work....I'm sure the OP would have done that first. Once the dog lets go, give him a toy...but getting him to let go was the original issue.


Yes. The issue right now is purely getting him to let go  I have carried a tug toy in my pocket 24/7 since he came home for redirection. We also have lots and lots of toys floating around so there is always something appropriate for him to bite with in arms reach.

Once I have saved my precious flesh he will happily engage with a toy instead.

He also has started doing what we have dubbed the Mako death grip on toys as well. These are full bites with as much as the object/body part in his mouth he can manage. Eyes rolled back. Slow tail wag. Low growl. He doesn't let go of his toys until he can run off with them and hide under the coffee table or in his crate. Only THEN will he spit them out. 

What it really reminds me of are all of those myths they say about pit bulls. Ya know how they have locking jaws? Well they aren't myths at all. They just got the breeds mixed up. 

He's just 10 weeks old now, so we have a while before he grows out of this stage. If I don't figure out how to get him to let go - I'll be a 10 fingered amputee by the time we get there! 

We're doing two long walks a day AM and PM. Lots and lots of play in the afternoon (too hot for another walk). Using a flirt pole and tug mostly. Several training sessions daily with a lot of puppy push ups. We'll be starting puppy agility classes next week. So hopefully that will help with exercise as well.


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## M. Frary

Rupert was just like that 2 weeks ago. My wife and I both got squirt bottles. As soon as he came at us he got a squirt in the face. 3 times from my wife twice from me. He's all done with the biting now. I still let him suck my thumb but that is the only body part that goes in his mouth. He is a totally different dog. He is lovey and is now trainable. He is 12 weeks old today and fetches and puts the ball in my hand. He comes when he is called. He sits and is currently working on heel and down.
He still will chew on other stuff of course. He is still a baby after all. But the change in him is enormous.


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## Twyla

voodoolamb said:


> Thank you everyone!
> 
> He also has started doing what we have dubbed the Mako death grip on toys as well. These are full bites with as much as the object/body part in his mouth he can manage. Eyes rolled back. Slow tail wag. Low growl. He doesn't let go of his toys until he can run off with them and hide under the coffee table or in his crate. Only THEN will he spit them out.


I am not going to try and say he has any issue with guarding, especially at this age. Just something about your description - while really cute - would have me playing a trade up game with him now to avoid possible problems in the not to distant future.

:shrug: who knows, won't hurt, may help


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## sourdough44

That's a bit much to put up with. 

The 1st issue is how familiar is the dog with the boyfriend? I wouldn't want a partial stranger reprimanding a dog.

Once familiar I just wouldn't allow the biting. Some may ask, 'how do you stop it'? Well, there will always be some amount of puppy nipping and being mouthy.

I guess I'm a little 'old school'. I just don't allow it. How you ask? A firm 'NO' and a corresponding 'tap'. The level of 'correction' matches the level of infraction.

You may say I'm doing it wrong. It works for me, and our dog only does a few play bites when she is momentarily forgetful.

Yes, younger pups are mouthy. I surely wouldn't try to 'beat' it out of them. They will grow out of a good amount of it.


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## WesS

sourdough44 said:


> That's a bit much to put up with.
> 
> The 1st issue is how familiar is the dog with the boyfriend? I wouldn't want a partial stranger reprimanding a dog.
> 
> Once familiar I just wouldn't allow the biting. Some may ask, 'how do you stop it'? Well, there will always be some amount of puppy nipping and being mouthy.
> 
> I guess I'm a little 'old school'. I just don't allow it. How you ask? A firm 'NO' and a corresponding 'tap'. The level of 'correction' matches the level of infraction.
> 
> You may say I'm doing it wrong. It works for me, and our dog only does a few play bites when she is momentarily forgetful.
> 
> Yes, younger pups are mouthy. I surely wouldn't try to 'beat' it out of them. They will grow out of a good amount of it.


This...

Redirect.. But rules are rules. They not allowed to bite a person esp. Hard and get away with it. correct during the infraction. Not after. And increase pressure until they stop.

You can pinch top of neck, or even bite back. Done both it works. The squeaky noises that you don't like it etc. don't seem to work. Tried that too once upon a time.

Abuse? Well... That's how mommy teaches them manners.. And their is an old saying that goes don't do unto others what they don't want done to themselves.. Something like that.

Redirection still important... But you can't have the dog bitting on you and not letting go... And drawing blood. It is what it is. Pups can't over do it and always get away with it.. You don't want it bitting you... Make it unpleasant. You need to correct this and heavily reward play on biting the tug toy.


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## Steve Strom

Bite back, Ha. You go ahead Wes, I'm not gonna bite my dog. Lol.


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## jschrest

My sister bites her Pitts ear when she is acting out. It's always puzzled me. First, because who really wants their face that close to an out of control Pitt?! And second, because it doesn't seem to work. Her dog is the most hyper, annoying, disobeying dog I've ever met. 

I wouldn't correct the boyfriend too harshly, sometimes automatic reflex comes into play when something latches on. I kicked my moms chihuahua once when it latched on to my ankle. Not being mean, it startled me, and hurt, and my foot whipped out of it's own accord. I felt horrible and apologized profusely, but what was done was done.

Maybe ease off the tug toys for a bit? Engage in a different type of play with a different kind of toy. Replace the tug with two balls. Throw one and when he brings it back throw the other. Get some puppy puzzles where he has to work out how to et some treats out. It sounds like he is overly ramped by the tugs, and is using anything he can as a tug toy.

Hope this gets better for you soon! And please don't bite your pup


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## WesS

Steve Strom said:


> Bite back, Ha. You go ahead Wes, I'm not gonna bite my dog. Lol.


So don't.. Didn't hear your advice. 

Do you think it's okay for a dog to grab and hold and draw blood, and not let go?

Good management, yes, Redirection yes. But if dog is constantly latching onto humans and is being reinforced why not correct?


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## Steve Strom

You're right, I didn't add anything constructive. I do better with being more direct then thinking re-direct. I think of re-direct as too late. Add that to the idea of biting him, and now you see what he re-directs to, and I'd think it would be even worse once you've taught him to let go of one thing and bite something else.

I just turn things around a bit. I go from crate or pen direct to toy and play. I've just found it easier and quicker to show them whats ok, first. It keeps me from having to try and stop something then show them whats ok.


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## voodoolamb

I am not comfortable using any physical means of correction on a 10 week old pup. All of the published trainers and behaviorists I follow adamantly oppose of those techniques. As I have never used them before, it's totally beyond my skill level to do physical corrections properly. I would be either too heavy handed are to wussy about it. I accidentally stepped on the pups foot and his yelps broke my heart - it took every ounce of will power not to scoop him up in my arms and baby him. No way I could purposely cause him any pain. 

Also - I do plan to do IPO with this guy. So I don't think I want to out right discourage this holding on for dear life grip of his. I shot my schutzhund guy an email about this and he laughed at me and asked why in the world I would want him to stop  He did suggest the same thing about making the body part go dead and toy more interesting. *sigh* 

Mako nabbed me again this evening. Luckily it was before his dinner time when his little belly was rumbling. I grabbed the bag of freeze dried tripe off the table and he immediately let go. I had him do a few commands for tidbits then we went back to playing. He was good afterwards. He even accidentally grabbed by thumb and backed off right away being gentle with his bites. 

I'm guessing it's going to be a more management thing. He only seems to be doing it when he gets really worked up and excited. 

And of course thank you everyone for your responses


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## sourdough44

10 weeks is young. I do agree it's more an age for the familiar 'redirection'. I still would work on setting some ground rules though. The 1st would be that you're not a chew toy. Some light mouthy pup biting is completely normal.

More than once I've seen young pups separated from Mom by the breeder because Mom was 'getting rough with them'. No one is talking about abuse with a pup. A stern voice and that 'tap' on the side of the mouth will get the point across.

Part of the point is, animals operate differently than we are used to. Just look at Cecil over in Africa. I bet there are a few Zebra Mom's who don't mind that he is gone. 'Pack order' is being established very a early on, a small 'correction' won't upset the process.

Bonding is so important also. That pup will follow and adore the owner all the same, even if there was an age appropriate correction along the way as/when needed.

Then you can look at potential issues further down the road. They may be 'my 1 year old growls at our 9 year old child'. It's not usually only the behavior of that 1 yr old Shepherd, the problem slowly manifested itself since the dog came into the home. Now instead of fairly minor corrections along the way, we are looking for the 'dog trainer' for advice and help. That pup is like the clay pot on the spinning wheel, ready to be molded to the full potential.


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## wyoung2153

So not saying this works with every dog, BUT when Titan was learning "aus" with his tug when he refused to let go, I would stick my finger in his ear, HAHA. I'm not kidding. Not hard, but just enough to tickle his hairs. I knew already he hated his ears being tickled or blown on, so I used it as ammo. It worked... very well... and it didn't harm him. Lol. Sounds funny, but hey... we gotta do what we gotta do.. it was a very quick learning process. 

A more practical, maybe common, way, lol, would be grabbing his scruff a little when he is on the death grip. You can also use one hand to grab on (gently) to one of his jaws to loosen his grip.. if it's that serious. He's 10 weeks old, he doesn't have death grip jaws quite yet and it wouldn't take much pressure.


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