# Teaching down - odd issue



## Dolus (May 14, 2010)

Hi there!

I'm currently working on "down" with my adorable GSD puppy, but have trouble attaching a que to the command. 

I've tried capturing the behaviour, but he will rarely down without sitting first (and since I want a direct down I can't use that), so I started luring with a piece of kibble, which went great. I proceeded to remove the kibble from my hand and reward after (still sort of touching his nose with my hand).

My problem is attaching a verbal que to the command. I've tried saying "down" while he's performing the down from the signal (as well as before doing the signal), but no matter how many repetitions I do, he just doesn't seem to make a connection between the verbal cue and the action.

I've trained dogs in obedience before but never had this problem - any suggestions?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Keep trying it may take more time. When he downs for you say good down and treat. Using a clicker may really help too but depending on the age of the puppy this doesn't sound all that abnormal to me


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## Dolus (May 14, 2010)

I'm already using a clicker, but you might be right about the age - I guess I'll just have to be patient


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I like your name 'dolus'- are you using the Latin meaning of the word? As far as your puppy goes, Uschi was a natural downer but we started from a sit. Once I wanted the direct down, I used a light prong collar and gave it a gentle quick tug and she picked it up right away. But I didn't use the prong collar before 6 mos. So you might just have to wait a while!


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## Dolus (May 14, 2010)

Actually the name "Dolus" has a double meaning. One is the name of the greek god of mischief (not really sure of the translation) the other is part of the latin legal term (in danish law) for intent. Our other dog is named "Culpa", which is the latin legal term for negligence 

As for the down, I'm training without aversives, so the prong collar isn't an option, but your post did give me an idea - perhaps I could fade the que (at the moment it's me touching his nose) to make it a hand signal and then transfer from that instead.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I work in canon law and dolus means a fraudulent intent. Didn't know about the Greek god. Glad I gave you a hint! Hope it works.


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## VChurch (Jun 14, 2010)

I start it from a sitting position and then work with just "down". Minna started with doing down when I snapped my fingers and touched the floor, and slowly (okay, over the past 4-5 days, seems slow sometimes lol) she has gotten to where she understands that when I say 'lay down' or 'lay' it means all the way down. Sometimes I still have to snap and point to the floor, but for the most part she understands lay means lay all the way down.


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## Dolus (May 14, 2010)

VChurch said:


> I start it from a sitting position and then work with just "down". Minna started with doing down when I snapped my fingers and touched the floor, and slowly (okay, over the past 4-5 days, seems slow sometimes lol) she has gotten to where she understands that when I say 'lay down' or 'lay' it means all the way down. Sometimes I still have to snap and point to the floor, but for the most part she understands lay means lay all the way down.


Well, the thing about that is that for the dog, the motion is different when doing a direct down, that from a sitdown (even if the down is directly after the sit). With a direct down, the front paws are in the exact same place before and after the down, while the front paws move forward when doing a sit-down. For the most part the difference is minor, but it's a factor when considering obedience trials - also, teaching the dropdown from a forward-send (not sure of the english term, sorry), is a lot easier if a dog is doing a direct down, since the motion of the direct-down is backwards, so doing the direct down will automatically cause the dog to stop, whereas the sitdown is forward oriented and can cause the dog to "slide" before downing.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Do it while moving. I had to reteach Jax down because she always sat first. So teach him a moving down by luring with a treat. If he drops to a down, click and treat. If he sits first, ignore the behavior. You may have to use a new word if he continues to down from a sit. I had to use platz for a drop to a down.


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## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

Fading your current cue (touching the nose) to a hand signal is a good idea. To add the vocal command, say the command BEFORE giving the hand signal instead. This way the vocal command becomes a predictor for the action she knows. The more often she hears that word, "down" or "platz," before you give the hand signal, she'll associate it with the action. Then you can fade the hand signal by increasing the amount of time between the verbal cue and the hand signal. You could also fade directly from your current cue in the same way, but I would still add a different hand signal that you won't have to touch the dog.


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## Sparked (Aug 4, 2010)

My 6 month old GSD took seemingly FOREVER to go from our signal (moving pointing fingertips towards the floor) which accompanied "down", to just the verbal command -- but she did. I honestly was beginning to worry that it would become a bigger issue, but then one day I said "down" casually, as I was walking through the living room with her, and she immediately "down"ed and looked up at me. I think because I made NO effort to even hint at the coming hand action/usual routine, it didn't occur to her to wait for it. Ever since, she has responded to the verbal cue alone the majority of the time, and a subtle hint at the same hand action I used before will work if the verbal does not.


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## Dolus (May 14, 2010)

Sparked said:


> My 6 month old GSD took seemingly FOREVER to go from our signal (moving pointing fingertips towards the floor) which accompanied "down", to just the verbal command -- but she did. I honestly was beginning to worry that it would become a bigger issue, but then one day I said "down" casually, as I was walking through the living room with her, and she immediately "down"ed and looked up at me. I think because I made NO effort to even hint at the coming hand action/usual routine, it didn't occur to her to wait for it. Ever since, she has responded to the verbal cue alone the majority of the time, and a subtle hint at the same hand action I used before will work if the verbal does not.


Hehe, that's good to know - I was becoming a bit frustrated. I guess I'll just keep working on it.

And thanks to all posters for the info, it's very appreciated.


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