# Border Collies



## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

So, I don't really know anything about Border Collies, but my sister is in the market for one.

She's always been of the "see a puppy and buy it" mentality, so I'm trying to guide her to the right place...and finding responsible breeders has been very difficult.

Does anyone have any knowledge about Border Collies that they are willing to share?

Some basic research has turned up that I should be looking for CEA and HD testing (That's familiar at least!) But aside from that, I'm clueless.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

What does she want it for? There are show BCs, working BCs, and "Sporter" collies.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

She just wants a companion dog, but all of them we've encountered in the past were working dogs, so I'd lean in that direction.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm not at all familiar with the breed. I did have one in Smokey's training class. Smokey and him didn't get along at all :c. But he was beautiful. His owner said he required a lot of coat maintenance. She actually went in every other week and had his underside shaved so that peepee wouldn't smear in that area. That to me sounded like a lot of money to spending for maintenance.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

If she wants a Border Collie she has to be very frank about her own abilities and lifestyle.

1. She MUST be smarter than the dog. And they are wickedly smart problem solvers. They need to be trained. Not just sit, stay, come. They would be bored to tears and find something to do (like a certain 6 month old puppy who figured out how to get to the top of the refrigerator  and had a taste for school library books). Advanced obedience training, every trick she can find on the internet, a job to do that mind must be stimulated.

2. She must be AT LEAST as active as the dog. A bored and under exercised Border is a terror that will destroy the house and the peace in the neighborhood. If she is not prepared to spend several HOURS each DAY to exercise then a Border Collie is not the dog for her.

I had a mix from farm stock for almost 11 years. In her prime she would walk in the morning, accompany me on my paper route after school (4 km) either running beside the bike or pulling the sled, play ball/frisbee for a good hour and later she would "roller-jor" with me in her pink and purple harness. This is each week day. Weekends we had a lot more time for ball/frisbee and "roller-joring". Even in her old age with arthritic hips she would still do 1 km at a time on the tread mill twice a day up until the week she passed.

Border Collies are NOT a dog that can live with a walk around the block whenever their owners feel like it or even just once or twice a day.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

angelas said:


> If she wants a Border Collie she has to be very frank about her own abilities and lifestyle.
> 
> 1. She MUST be smarter than the dog. And they are wickedly smart problem solvers. They need to be trained. Not just sit, stay, come. They would be bored to tears and find something to do (like a certain 6 month old puppy who figured out how to get to the top of the refrigerator  and had a taste for school library books). Advanced obedience training, every trick she can find on the internet, a job to do that mind must be stimulated.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. I've fostered a BC before and have babysat for my friend's three border collies. We would go on a long walk, let the dogs off leash for play time, get home and Mikko would be ready for a nap and the BC grabs a ball and wants to play more! I've found that they need to be told when to rest (ie putting them up in a crate)-they are always wanting to do more. 

I would ask her to seriously consider an adult BC that can be matched with her lifestyle.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

This is a really good forum for BCs: BC Boards

In fact, it's pretty much identical in ideology as this forum when it comes to dogs. Heavily working line biased.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I love my BC's but they are a dog that has to have a job. Mine have all been working line. I've heard some people say the show line is more biddable and not as intense but I've never owned one so don't know if it's true. 
They can be very OCD if not trained and given a job. 
They are rated as one of the smartest dogs and that can actually make them more of a pain to train then if they were missing a few of those brains LOL 
In some ways they are like GSD's in that they really need to be a part of the family, if you intend to leave one outside or by itself very much dont' get one. 

I have to cover Frank's ears for what I'm going to say next. 
They are my favorite breed and I will probably always have one. If you make the commitment to them, with training and truly making them a part of your family, they are the best IMO. 
Your sister really needs to read up on all the herding behaviors that come with the border collie breed and have a plan for training before bringing the pup home. 
Border Collies are a pretty healthy breed but I would question the breeder about eyes and hips.


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## Anitsisqua (Mar 25, 2012)

I actually joined that board, too, but it won't let me post there...

And she's single, smart, and active, so I think that's a good start. I will encourage her to reconsider whether the breed will fit well into her life, but I suppose that is ultimately up to her.

Also, she's pretty set on getting a puppy... 

...And she has had a sheltie in the past. I know it's not the same, but there are similar herding instincts and such. And grooming requirements, I would imagine.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Anitsisqua said:


> I actually joined that board, too, but it won't let me post there...


It takes them a while to approve you, that's for sure. I tried sending the admin emails and that didn't really work either. I think it ended up taking about 1.5 to 2 weeks to get approved.



Anitsisqua said:


> And she's single, smart, and active


Ohhhh! Is she hot? :wild: :lurking:


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

wildo said:


> It takes them a while to approve you, that's for sure. I tried sending the admin emails and that didn't really work either. I think it ended up taking about 1.5 to 2 weeks to get approved.
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhh! Is she hot? :wild: :lurking:


lol!!!


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Has she thought about an Australian Shepherd? We had a black bi and it looked and acted just like a border collie (still not sure it wasn't a border collie). She looked like the dog in Babe and ran as fast. The thing that makes me think it wasn't a Border Collie was that she did not seem as intense and driven as what I have heard about border collies. Still she was the fastest and most agile dog I have ever seen. NO other dog could catch her. She would run forward looking over her shoulder and the minute another dog got close she would "put it in warp speed" and just take off. And her job was to watch my kids. She was great. Maybe a black bi Aussie would be a better choice?


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

https://www.google.com/search?q=bla...hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|6;d|gYHjrbBGKIb77M:

Here is a link to images of black bi Aussies. Aw, now I am feeling like I really want one. Our little girl was the best dog ever - don't tell our GSD or our blue merle Aussie.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Franksmom said:


> Your sister really needs to read up on all the herding behaviors that come with the border collie breed and have a plan for training before bringing the pup home.


Oh, how could I have forgotten the herding. If you scuffed your feet while walking (especially in gravel) Lucky would be lazer focused on your feet and she would try to herd. Circling, whining, darting in, nipping all while focused on your feet and there was NOTHING you could do to stop is short of sitting down on them or covering them with a blanket and breaking her eye line and being absolutely perfectly still. There is no distraction, no redirection, no physical correction that would break that focus.:crazy:

Border Collies are the definition of INTENSITY.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

I had a working stock dog bred BC for 15 years and my uncle raises them. Here is something to think about, a BC burned down my friends house. Yes that is an absolutely true story. The fire inspector and the owners put together this scenario from evidence and the scene. The BC jumped on the stove to get to an upper cabinet where donuts were hidden. She knocked a bag of chips onto the stove and when she jumped down, somehow her foot hit the dial that turns on the stove burner. Chips ignited, cabinet above caught fire, house burned. The family Lab died in the fire but the border collie got out without a problem. 

Thunderstorms were the only problem I ever had with my dog. If I was home, she would cower under my chair but remain under control. If I was not home, she might do anything. She cost me thousands in damages and broke almost every tooth in her head due to storms. Until she was very advanced in age, I never made the mistake of leaving her shut up in the house. 

She never had a job and never needed one. She ran free on the farm and never left the immediate area of the house. She was told not to touch the cat's food and she never did. She was free fed and never over ate. When she was with me, she watched me for signals all the time. When she was alone, if a storm blew up, that problem solving instinct kicked in and she would jump thru windows, tear down doors, break fence welds, and on and on. I would never, never recommend anyone get a border collie unless you have livestock (not horses). If you are with them 24/7 they will probably be fine. Leave them alone for an hour and come home to a crate or kennel with broken welds, bent wires and a broken screen in the house where the dog jumped in or out. Or maybe come home to a smoldering ruin that once was a house. They are the most intense creatures on the planet and they are always looking for problems to solve.


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## readmeli (Feb 28, 2013)

New here... mostly been lurking so this is my first official post. 

Having owned a border collie, and being active in agility and other people with BC's... I dont recommend them unless you plan on being active with them. This means herding, doing agility, disc dog, flyball, running, walking, games. LOTS OF ACTIVITY. 

These dogs do not sit back and enjoy the day. They GO GO GO and need jobs like everybody says. I do not believe they are for everyone... you have to be smart and one step ahead of them forever. If your sister can fit that bill, then go for it. But if she is a person who just wants a couch potato, or a dog that will go on walks here and there, toss the ball once or twice... Look for something else.

(I LOVED MY BC!!!!!!! Now I have a Duck Toller.... Sorry no Shep here, but this is an awesome forum)


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

As others have said.... there are Border Collies (working), Beauty Collies (show), and Flyball Collies (cuckoo?).
They are very, very active dogs, lots of drive, and some that I have met can be shy and/or neurotic.
Very cool dogs.... but nothing like a sheltie in my experience.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Being in flyball, I'm around a few border collies. Would DEFINITELY not recommend them for the average dog owner, unless they're willing to alter their entire lifestyle for the dog. Either that, or they will go insane (or the dog will likely end up somewhere else).

If they're not given an outlet for their drive, energy, and intelligence, they'll find one.
They have a lot of spunk and personality, so it's VERY important that the owner is matched to the right dog to make sure they mesh well.

Someone mentioned Aussies - I think that would be a better place to start. They're still pretty high drive/high energy dogs, but nowhere near a border collie. I'm sure there are some breeders who don't dock the tails, also. It's hard to tell a BC apart from an Aussie with a full tail.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I don't know about Aussies..... My experience is all the drive and energy of BCs.... With more attitude.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

border collie


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Gagsd, Aussies are supposedly a lot like BCs without being quite so intense. I fostered several Aussies and have owned a black bi and a blue merle. In general they were all more intense and more active than a GSD. The black bi was the most intense and most active but she had an off switch. That is what makes me think she could have been at least part BC. Still our black bi was a little OCD. Also she definitely thought she was smarter than we were and to be honest I am not sure she wasn't correct.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

My experience with Aussies is mostly pre-AKC. Mine and the ones I knew were very intense, with more natural aggression/protectiveness than the BCs I know. 
Not to say the BCs wouldn't bite someone... That is where you have to watch nerves. Just my somewhat limited experience.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

the working ones i met were about the same energy like my shep (some even less than my working shep) but the others the pet ones seem to have less energy

the aussie sheps i met seemed less intense and less aggressive, except one insane working aussie bitch wow she was intense! 


The lassie type collie seem much more mellow much less intense tell her to maybe look into those if shes interested in a laid back house pet?


I still consider all of them much less aggressive then my gsd though but some have just as much energy. BUt they are easy to just kinda fit anywhere and take anywhere and fit in anywhere. Seem like a good family dog.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Oh i made a mistake i meant to say aussie sheps seem less intense more aloof 

BC more intense but also some of the ones i have met some are just so annoyingly social as in they jump on you too much. 

If i had a choice id prefer an aussie shep i think. I like their persona more. I like how they prefer to keep to themselves and their owner and dont approach sstrangers like my shepherd. VS some BC will just run up to me and jump and get mud all over me lol


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

My Aussie was pretty mellow, he was fine laying around the house but had pretty bad separation anxiety and would destroy or eat things... A few times he even managed to open jars of peanut butter and eat the entire contents. He was my husbands dog when I first met him and I was not as dog savvy back then, knowing what I know now I'd have crate trained him and maybe gotten him involved in herding or agility. 

You said she's active but is she willing to start making it a priority to start doing stuff with a BC whether its hiking or getting involved in a sport? Unless she's willing to lose a lot of free time to keeping this dog stimulated she might want to go with something less intense. I'm getting involved in herding with my GSD but I wouldn't even want a BC at this time in my life.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

My friend has a BC. Guess she got lucky, it is a great house dog. She is OCD with fetching and will growl/grimace at you, but a great dog (although I don't care for the grimacing at me when I'm pet sitting and have to fill her food bowl). 

I had 2 Aussies years ago. One was wonderful in the house, my 1st dog, from a BYB, before I knew better. Never did anything wrong except the usual puppy stuff. My 2nd Aussie came from a working line. A spry little black girl, and whew, was she a firecracker! Hardly an off switch. My working line GSD is easier to live with than she was. But I loved her!


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I know more BCs than Aussies, but most Aussies I've met are generally mellower than borders. (Mind you, almost all of the dogs of both breeds I've met are in flyball).

I will say, I would LOVE to have a mini Aussie one day. 

I have noticed that some border collies seem to be prone to dog aggression. There's quite a few I know - they won't chase down another dog and try to kill it, but they do NOT appreciate nose-to-nose contact/greetings.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

daisy whats a grimace? why dont u like it much?


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

She shows her teeth while growling when she gets mad and doesnt want to listen. Or when i get close to her bowl when pet sitting. I call that a grimace. She's done it since she was a youngster, she's 10 now. I just never cared for the growl and show teeth thing. She's never tried to bite, though.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

My mum loves BC so we had two as family pets over the time we grew up. Both were from working bloodlines from New Zealand. They were WONDERFUL dogs BUT we lived on a large farm so they had plenty to do. I think they would have gone crazy living in town BUT if you could give them an outlet it could work. Agree about having to be smarter than them as they are incredibly good at working out ways to do just about anything.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Generally BCs are not companion animals. They need to work all day or you go crazy. If you like the look, consider English Shepherds, still high drive but with an off button, given they get enough exercise and mental stimulation. Or a Farm Collie.


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