# Anyone have experience with Dogmatic headcollar?



## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Just curious if anyone has any experience with the Dogmatic headcollars. I just purchased one online last night (it hasn't arrived yet) as I hope to use it for two reasons: 

1. To help with the pulling issue. 
2. People often use Haltis or Dogmatics here as an alternative to muzzling your dog, which is required for the restricted breeds list. I do have a muzzle, but I hate using it on Juno, and would like something a little less off putting , but with the benefit of closing her mouth should she lunge. 

So does anyone have experience with a Dogmatic? Any tips or suggestions? 

Cheers!


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Yes - I've using one for several years -best thing I ever brought. But -there's always a but - it needs to be used correctly, otherwise there's a possibility, in my opinion, of unintensionally damaging your dogs neck. 

First of all make sure it fits correctly. He should be able to open his mouth enough to be able to carry and catch a ball, and when pressure is applied to the loop under his chin it should shut his mouth. 

I haven't got time to go into it any further at the moment, but I'll be back later. 

Sue


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Sorry, I just realised you dog's a she - not a he. Also, is there is reason she needs to wear a muzzle, or are GSD's on a restricted breed list where you live ?

Sue


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

jakes mom said:


> Sorry, I just realised you dog's a she - not a he. Also, is there is reason she needs to wear a muzzle, or are GSD's on a restricted breed list where you live ?
> 
> Sue


No prob! Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I am subject to the poxy Irish law that has GSDs on the Restricted Breeds list here. I do own a nylon muzzle but Juno HATES it. There are quite a few people here who use Halti's to try and get around the muzzle law. It doesn't always work and sometimes (though rarely) people who do this are chastised by the local dog warden into putting a proper muzzle on their dog. But it's a risk I'm willing to take if it means I don't have to have her muzzled every single time I step outside our garden.

But overall, I would like to give the Dogmatic a try more for the benefit of minimizing her incessant pulling! 
I've heard of people using two leads on their dog with the headcollars. (One on the headcollar, and one on the dogs actual neck collar.) Do you do this? Or is it enough just to have the lead attached to just the head collar?

Sorry if that sounds dumb. I'm just totally new to the whole head collar thing, and I wanna get all of this right in my head so that I can make a smooth transition for Juno when the Dogmatic arrives.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Rua

I understand there are problems in Ireland, I recall there was a campaign for a dog named Lennox, a staffie cross who was removed from his owners, because the authorities said he looked like pit bull. Poor thing.

You're quite right in saying some owners use two leads, one on the collar and one on the dogmatic. Personally I don't - because any type of head collar, or neck collar attached to a loose lead, especially a long lead could really cause damage to a dogs neck or throat if the dog takes off at speed, and comes to a sudden halt.

I use a no-pull harness with the dogmatic, and double ended lead - one end attached to his halter and the other end to the harness. 

The first time I used the dogmatic, I had my dog on a 6ft lead, and my dog was very reactive - he took off suddenly at speed towards another dog, came to a sudden halt as he hit the end of the lead, and it threw him over. Worried me to death - I thought it was possible he might snap his neck. I've checked with various vets and have been assured that won't happen with a GSD, they have far too much muscle. But my gut instinct says it could, and I have heard talk of the same (but no actual evidence as far as I am aware). SO to be on the safe side my dog wears a harness as well. 

I do use the halter on its own if my dog's on a shorter lead, however.

Now that may have put you off - don't let it, because it gives better, kinder control than a flat collar, and won't cause the pain and possible danger that a prong collar or choke chain might. 

Does Juno react badly to other dogs or does she just pull?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have had Halti's and am not fond of them. I realize if you can't use a prong you can't but I have never had one cause any damage whatsoever.

As far as muzzles go, my dogs are trained to accept a plastic Italian Basket Muzzle - seems to be comfortable - certainly room for breathing, drinking water, etc.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I wouldn't disagree with you there Jocoyn. 

I'd always used a choke chain on my GSD's with no problems - until we had our last rescue dog - he was so reactive at any distance, that I saw the damage that it could do on a dog with problems. That's when I got the dogmatic and wouldn't use anything else now....... Well, that's not true either - I would sooner just use a harness, but my current rescue dog has major problems, and I have to have 100% control of him, when necessary.

As for the Halti, I wasn't fond of that either.

Sue


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah I've heard Haltis tend to ride up into the dogs eyes, which was why I opted for the Dogmatic. 

Juno is funny when it comes to reacting....

When it is just her and I walking, she doesn't pull much at all (except for maybe the first 5 minutes after arriving somewhere new.) But when we are walking with the kids, it's a different story completely. That is when she pulls her hardest. She reacts far more to other dogs when I am walking with the kids because she tends to be really really protective of them, and because she wants to be in front of them at all times. In all cases, when other dogs are around, she lunges, but generally doesn't take off after them. I've never really had that problem with her so far. Just a lot of pulling and initial lunging.

I've been thinking of getting her a choke chain as well. I'd be interested in getting a double ended lead if I could, but haven't seen anything like that in the local pet shops. 

What kind of harness do you use in conjunction with the dogmatic? I have one that doubles as a car safety harness (it clips into the seat belt) or walking harness.....but I've never seen a "no pull" harness.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I would think that the harness you use for the car would be ok, if coupled with the dogmatic. 

You just need to make sure you introduce her to the halter gently, hold a treat in you hand behind the nose piece, so that she has to put her nose through it in order to get the treat. Only fasten it once she happily lets you put it over her snout. She may try and get it off to start with, that's normal, because she'll want to pull you as always, and she won't be able to so easily. Don't worry she'll soon get used to it, once she associates it with a walk. Give her plenty of treats as you walk, to take her mind of this strange thing around her head 

Don't leave her unsupervised with it on, because if she paws at it, she may get her paw stuck in the loop, and get distressed. 

You may be able to buy a double ended lead from pet shops.
I've got the 'Halti Training Lead'. If you can't find one in the shops, this is the website. You can also order harnesses, if you decide to have a new one. BTW the lead comes with a useful training guide.

Halti the original and still the best 

Just make sure you really praise Juno when she walks on a loose lead, and hold the lead so that the harness stops her fractionally before the halter.

If you need advice on how to teach her to walk on a loose lead, please ask, as it's much better that she doesn't try and pull.

As far as other dogs are concerned, I would keep my distance from them, until Juno start to feel more comfortable with them. When she sees a dog and is calm give her a lovely treat, then she'll start to associate them with nice things, and slowly you'll be able to get closer without her reacting. 

I would not use a choke chain, as your dog is reactive, it will make her worse, as you will either end up snatching her hard or she will pull so much she will choke herself, and any discomfort or pain that she feels she will associate with the other dog - so she will react even more. 

I'd always used one and knew how to, but as I told Jocoyn, my last dog, literally choked himself and frothed at the mouth he reacted so badly. It was only with hindsight I realised the choke chain actually made his problems worse. 

Sue .


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