# What breed?



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I am nowhere near ready for another dog, we would likely start really looking at pups MONTHS after our senior GS has passed.

We've had GSDs for decades in this family, and may still decide on one, but likely NOT, since we do not have a safe yard for one, and of course there would be time the dog is out in the yard with or without us.

What we are looking for is a dog who would happily alert us to trespassers. 
A dog on the small side.
A breed that generally gets on very well with other dogs, and has no history of bloodsports(meaning dogfighting, small animal mauling, ect) in it's background, as we have an older small dog. I know that checks off hundreds of dogs, as most terriers were used in bloodsporting shows at some time, and hounds are great at mauling small critters.
I would absolutely love to get a big breed, but I have to think of the safety of our existing dog. One misplaced playful swat form a young GSD could severely injure Sparkles. Dutch is nearly 15 and is too much for her to handle most of the time. 


Any small breed people here?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

We have two small dogs and foster tons of them. I need more info before I make suggestions though - when you say "small", how small are we talking? 5-10 lbs, 10-15, 15-20, 20-25? Because that'll definitely affect which breeds fit. Also, while most small dogs are great about happily announcing intruders, they announce lots of other things too so the flip side of this is yapping. How do you feel about talkativeness? Finally - hair. Do you want a dog that doesn't require special grooming, one that doesn't shed (but does require grooming), and how do you feel about long versus short versus wirey or curely hair generally?


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

How small?


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I meant to add small enough to safely be with my 12lber (though she is a tom boy) and not springy enough to get over the 4.5 foot fence.

Two breeds I like for their looks, temperament and intelligence are Maltese and Bichons. I do like the small spitz breeds as well.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Grooming is no issue, obviously, the breeds I posted are proof of that... 

I do not LIKE sparse hair, like a wire haired dog, but can live with it, it's the temperament I'm worried about. 
My little thing talks if you look at her funny. I love it, and it is easy to control once you get the point across, all I have to say is "Enough." and she quits. 

Size range could be from 5lb-25lb.
I am adopting, so it may not be the exact AKC standard anywhoo, or a complete pure bred. 

I know that what interests me could cover many breeds, but I am looking for people who have dogs of the size/temperament I am looking for to get some firsthand knowledge.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

We have two Chi/Poms, both rescues. They are Spitzy, with dense double coats, and both quite hilarious. Hector is 6lbs and Pixie 5, although she's a bit chubby and should weigh slightly less. But anyway, they're very very tiny by most GSD people's standard - however, they're quite sturdy and seem to have zero problems holding their own with the GSDs. They're physically similar to Schipperkes but smaller and with tails. I foster a fair number of PB Chis and they're a lot more fragile. Don't know about where you are, but in these parts we get LOADS of small breed mixes that are probably exactly what you're looking for: 8-12lb range, nice temperaments, good with people and big dogs, not too scrappy, not too yappy. A lot of them are labeled euphemistically as "Chihuahua mix" which around here just means "small dog." Some are labeled things like "feist" which is basically "small dog of indeterminate breed." Some feists are very scrappy but most of the non-breed obvious small dogs I've fostered have been very cool dogs, play well with others, and are easy to get along with.

ETA: And of course, like my Chi/Poms, other designer mixes are increasingly abundant in shelters and rescues - MaltiPoos, Peke-a-Poms etc. While I don't approve of crappy breeding practices, a lot of them are great little dogs, who really do seem to have the best of both breeds and aren't as extreme as either.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Corgi


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I second the corgi...I love my sister's corgi, who gets along great with my GSD, my BFF's Frenchie, Golden, her own pit, etc.

They really are like a small GSD!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Yep, we have quite a few little guys around here. I would prefer a pup so my little THING would be more accepting, but if I can find a male who fits in with her little world he'd come with us.
She is a good girl and would teach a pup his manners fast, but I think she'd do great, and would benefit from a brother. 

Oh I hate hearing "Designer Dog"... I told some idgets at my local Pet Mill-Land who were about to buy a brother and sister who were labeled Chi-zoo's that there were 6-7 Schnaz-a-poo's at our local SPCA! THEY ARE MUTTS!!! Good lord, and I've had people come back with "Well these are 'designers', not mixed breeds..."


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

The only reason I would NOT want a corgi, is their fearless attitude, and they would outweigh my girl quite a bit.
Other than that, I think they're awesome, and if I do come across one in a local shelter who matches us, I will try him out. There is a male available NOW who is under a year and looks to be 75% Corgi.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

If you like GSDs and want a small version, Corgis probably really are a great suggestion. If that's not the thing as much as needing a compatible dog, then you've got lots of options. 

This is a semi-random selection of dogs that I've fostered (one exception - was someone else's foster) over the last couple years all of whom would have met your criteria. They've been adopted of course, but they show the diversity. And yet, all in the size range, all good with other dogs both large and small, all non-scrappy (although Angel was a bird killer but fine with cats), all would bark alert, all non-escape artists, all very nice dogs, and all from KY shelters.

Angel – Eskie or Pap mix. Great little dog, white, and spitz-ish
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8345501

Toby - Yorkie Poo
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8330560

Amy - Peke-a-Pom
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9510677

Percy - Yorkie or mostly Yorkie
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11143826

Ginny - “Chi” or Min Pin mix aka what I call a small Kentucky Brown Dog. Awesome dog and had a kind of mini pitty vibe – great smile and zest for life. LOTS of these type dogs available around here.
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8345514

Rosey - Spitz mix. This one wasn’t one of mine but I eval’d her and she was a great dog.
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=9920717


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

And for pics of my silly kids click here


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I have liked MinPins, and we have a rescue within a few miles of me that is always filled to the brim with them, and puppies.

There is also a bichon rescue who has them regularly, but the 'fee' for one of their adults, or even mixed breeds is more like a price for a well bred puppy.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

True, but you're saving a life and getting a couple hundred dollars with of vetting.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqAnd for pics of my silly kids click here


Awesome little guys...
Thought 99.999999% of chi's I have met were complete 'tards I will blame it on the owners. As given 15 minutes alone with my brothers, well, his girls' chi, she calms and realizes that biting constantly isn't adorable anymore, and is a pretty good dog.
There are enough homeless chi mixes around here to float titanic.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqTrue, but you're saving a life and getting a couple hundred dollars with of vetting.


Yep, I'd just prefer to pay a small fee then go puppy shopping, you know, 400 toys, new beds, tiny kongs and bones bigger around than the dog...


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:Thought 99.999999% of chi's I have met were complete 'tards I will blame it on the owners.


Have they be PB Chis though? I've had many as fosters and while actually they were mostly very sweet, they did do the shivery thing which I don't like and just seemed more fragile in general than what I personally look for in a dog. But the Chi mixes seem to have it going on, especially the larger dogs, like 6+ lbs. Most of the dogs we get come from rural shelters and have had pretty crap lives, so they're not at all spoiled, just very happy for everything they get.

If you like Maltese and Bichons, Shih Tzus are another breed you might look at. Tons of them in rescue and while some of them woudn't be a good fit, a lot of them are completely hilarous litte ewoks and love to play and have fun.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Border Terrier


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

And I thought this board was about the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, not ankle bitters.

Sorry, I must have signed on to the wrong board.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1And I thought this board was about the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, not ankle bitters.
> 
> Sorry, I must have signed on to the wrong board.


A dog lover is a dog lover, I enjoy the company of dogs very much, but I cannot care for a GSD or any other large breed at the moment.
And with a name like "Germanshepherds.com" I do think you came to the right place.
Seeing your number of posts it is obvious that this is a GS board, right? But as with any dog forum, you can discuss other dog breeds.
Would you prefer I get a GSD, and tie him out 24/7, since that would be the only way I could keep one? 

Yep, Shih's are cool pups, and they are frequent in shelters! I have seen several. 
Odd, since they were nearly wiped out at one time, and brought back by 12 dogs. My Sparkles is a pomeranian shih-tzu mix, and if I could get another like her I would, she is great.

Borders are nuts... Ever watch one in agility? I don't know if Sparkles could keep up, but they are lovely dogs.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: APBTLove
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Timber1And I thought this board was about the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, not ankle bitters.
> ...


I think it is very respectable of you to realize your limit and pass up on one of your favorite breeds for the betterment of, not only your currently pup, but for your future dog as well.

On to the point... when I was a kid I had a Min Pin but she didn't really like us kids and became grumpy and nippy when she got older. I do not know if this is typical, but this has been my experience. My parents currently have a dachshund/chihuahua mix who I, personally, cannot stand but everyone else loves her. She's not yappy but she definitely lets you know when someone is at the door.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you, it was a hard decision to make, I was actually looking for good breeders not long at all ago on here, but the more I thought about it, it became clear that I cannot take on a large, intelligent working dog now.

Most minpins I have com across were nip-monsters. I've been attacked by one (who got a good whack with a straightening iron) for very little reason. 
Doxies actually have one of the highest bite incidents, one out of five owners on a poll said theirs had bitten, or tried to bite them.

I do believe with toys that most of their attitude is because of how they are treated, they are not stuffed animals, they're carnivorous DOGS. 
When I think about it from a chihuahua's point of view, if people were CONSTANTLY picking me up, touching me, acting weird in my face, I'd want to bite too just to make them stop, especially with kids who tend to accidentally hurt small dogs when they pick them up or trip and fall. 

I guess I will probably end up with whatever dog that fits in, pure or mixed.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: When I think about it from a chihuahua's point of view, if people were CONSTANTLY picking me up, touching me, acting weird in my face, I'd want to bite too just to make them stop, especially with kids who tend to accidentally hurt small dogs when they pick them up or trip and fall.


This is my feeling too. It's not good behavior but you can certainly understand a lot of it. We get SO many little dogs who have been mauled and traumatized by children. 

I won't adopt out dogs under 10lbs to people with kids under 10. It's one of my few inflexible rules. It's just too easy for a kid, even a sweet wonderful kid, to fall on the dog, drop the dog, step on the dog etc. And if a sweet kid accidently kills or maims the dog that's going to scar them for life, so I don't feel like I'm doing them any favors either. 10lbs is still small but a lot sturdier. 

Anyway. I think you're making the right call. It's not the breed as much as the individual. As I posted, I've had lots of dogs that would have fit your situation perfectly (and lots that wouldn't) but they've been all over the map breed and breed/mix wise. 

Best of luck in your search!


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I have 2 Cairn Terriers and they are great! They love everyone, very tough and rugged so they can do all my GSD can do but more b/c they are more portable. Great watch dogs and really funny! They are generally between 12-20 lbs. They have wire hair but its not rough, and they do not shed. I wanted small dogs but ones that could keep up with me. They go swimming, hiking, snow shoeing etc. Very smart but they are terriers lol. They give Dozer a run for him money. I loved the breed so much I ended up getting a second one. They are great with kids and VERY tolerant! Sometimes I think they like people too much, lol, if that is possible.
They are compatible with GSD's, my breeder actually breeds both. I have met lots of people who have/had GSD's and they always have had/have a Cairn as well.


















Scoot and my nephew


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

The youngest here is 7, and though she is extremely careful with the dogs, I wouldn't want someone much smaller than Sparkles, as she is on the go constantly, and seems to be as graceful as a penguin out of water. 

Cairn's are great little dogs, but I've heard they, and others like Borders, need to be hand-stripped to keep their coat healthy and from getting infections from hair being broken off, as they don't have the same follicles as other breeds?


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: APBTLoveThank you, it was a hard decision to make, I was actually looking for good breeders not long at all ago on here, but the more I thought about it, it became clear that I cannot take on a large, intelligent working dog now.


No problem. I just hate to see people get attacked for trying to do the right thing!



> Originally Posted By: APBTLoveMost minpins I have com across were nip-monsters. I've been attacked by one (who got a good whack with a straightening iron) for very little reason.


Yeah, we have home videos of the dog trying to nip my hands and me hitting it with my Bart Simpson doll... I think it was our Minpin that started my dislike of small dogs. 



> Originally Posted By: APBTLoveWhen I think about it from a chihuahua's point of view, if people were CONSTANTLY picking me up, touching me, acting weird in my face, I'd want to bite too just to make them stop.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

When/If I get too old for GSD's, I plan on getting a schipperke, 7 to 20lbs, good with kids. Temperament seems to be like a gsd in a smaller body


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank you guys









There is a Schip down the road from me who is a complete spaz.. She trusts new people about as much as a squirrel. Took me about 5 minutes to get her comfortable enough for me to pet her, and she's a baby.
But I think with good socialization, they could be great.

There is a schip/pom mix for adoption here... Lovely goy, but seems to be crazy, which Miss Queen here wouldn't like in a new dog. She gave a silky we found a good nip because he was in her face trying to play and warned him a few times, but the big patterdale/lab I found was perfect with her. She was into HIM, and he could have care less.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: APBTLove but the big patterdale/lab I found was perfect with her. She was into HIM, and he could have care less.


It's funny how you're trying to find a nice little guy to be her companion and she falls for the big patterdale/lab mix! Lol!!


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

Yes that is true about the stripping, I have my dogs stripped once or twice a year, very simple. In between I use a Mars Coat King and thinning shears around their faces and legs. Baths every few months. It sounds worse than it is. They end up costing me about $100 a year each to groom and they do not shed. I love the crazy look lol.

They need to be stripping b/c the dead hair does not fall off on its own, that is why they do not shed.

I was in for a RUDE awakening when Dozer started to shed, I have never seen that much hair on my carpet, LOL. I now have a Bissell Pet Hair Eraser.

This is Scooter about 6 months after being stripped, I just trim his face up myself. They have waterproof and dirtproof coats so they are so easy to keep clean and they never smell, even after swimming.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I like Chi's, actually. My vet has a Chi puppy. He is very cool, smart, funny, feisty. Not weird, like you'd expect.

And, to make it more unusual, he came out of a huge puppy mill bust we had up here a couple months ago. 

She is "fostering" him technically, but once he is done being evidence, she'll keep him. The thing is, she has a GSD mix at home and two boys who treat him like a real dog. So he's not neurotic like the purse dogs we meet. When I bring my young beagle in to be weighed or to pick up some medicine or whatever, she and the Chi play like normal dogs (and my beagle is used to playing with my 87 lb adult male GSD). 

He's very cool. 

I think this assessment is completely correct:



> Quote:
> When I think about it from a chihuahua's point of view, if people were CONSTANTLY picking me up, touching me, acting weird in my face, I'd want to bite too just to make them stop, especially with kids who tend to accidentally hurt small dogs when they pick them up or trip and fall.


My beagle is a 13" 19 lb dog, and adorable. People always want to pick her up and "act weird" with her in ways that they never do with any other dog I've owned. It's the plight of the small dog.









I've raised her like I've raised my other dogs (no jumping up, facelicking, she has to walk nicely on leash, etc). I'd own a Chi under the right circumstances, and he'd be raised exactly like my GSD, my Otterhound mix, and my other kids ... like a "real" dog.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I am not a fan of Chi's and it may be because all the ones I have met are one person dogs and nip at people. Maybe it is just the ones I have met or seen on TV. I am sure they are great but a little to small for me. I like a dog that can keep up with me...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

my sister has papillons,,they are comical dogs, good alert barkers, not to bad to groom, easy keepers..


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

If I ever get a small dog, I'd look for a border terrier.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I like the soft coated wheaten terrier.They aren't as snippy as some terriers and are good with children. My mom is looking for a dog that is "non-allergic" and I am coaxing her into getting one of these vs a poodle blend. Though the size is a bit larger than what you are looking for.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Ah bless you Lori! Chihuahuas truly can be awesome little dogs. One my favorite fosters ever was this little 4 pound old man who had spent the previous few years living in a dog lot with a bunch of other larger (though not large) dogs. He was AWESOME! Sweet, loving, hilarious, and had this raspy little old man bark when one of the GSDs annoyed him. A LOT of it is how you raise them. I'm handraising a Chi now and he's a great dog. They ARE a lot more fragile than most dogs, so that's always a consideration. For this reason, I tend to prefer Chi mixes because they're a little sturdier. 



> Quote:all the ones I have met are one person dogs and nip at people.


A big reason for this is people not training small dogs properly, but another aspect of it is that you tend to carry tiny dogs when you're out in public (for their safety) and it's nearly impossible to stop people reaching in and trying to touch your dog. When the dog is in your arms, there's no way for them to escape and suddenly they got a strange hand nearly as big as they are coming right at them. They can be giving clear indications that they aren't comfortable (head ducked, ears back etc, even growling) but the hand keeps coming. Most dogs would probably snap under those circumstances but people don't think about how terrifying that must be because they don't really appreciate how the world looks when you're _that_ small. Many of the same dogs would not be at all nippy with them on the ground and allowing them to approach the person instead of the other way around.







Chihuahuas really aren't for everyone, but they're not terrible dogs either. Like any breed they've got their pros and cons and a lot comes down to circumstance.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Borders are great, but again, too much for my little Princess to handle.
Don't get me wrong, he is a complete nut and zooms around 100MPH if she's happy, but she prefers a dog that isn't going to bug her to play 75% of the time. Though, as I said, if I find one that is a match, he will come home.

I used to want a Papi, unfortunately they aren't a common breed in shelters, so I would have to look at a breed rescue. They, from what I've heard, are spirited, smart, energetic dogs.

The reason I'd look to a shih-tzu, Bichon, or similar is because of the lack of health problems. If I could find another pom/Shih-tzu at a shelter I would be thrilled, mine is easy to train, she picks up new commands/tricks after hearing them a few times. She knows the difference between "Go to bed." and "Get in you bed." (her personal bed is in the kitchen, night time bed is upstairs).

I am sure I'll end up with a wonderful mutt, or I'll check out our Bichon rescue, as they have pups often.


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## ltsgsd (Jan 31, 2009)

I have five dogs. 1 GSD , 1 mix, 1 beagle and two poodles. (small.) I absolutely love the poodle as a small inside dog. No hair, trim about 4 - 6 times a year, will play as long as you want or snuggle up beside you. My two have proven themselves as fearless little guard dogs as well. I had a stranger come up behind me as I was unloading the car at a hotel and our little girl went after him with no reluctance. I have no idea what his intentions were but she had not gone after several other people who came by.


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

I love Bearded Collies, but that may be a little bigger than you are looking for. A great alternative would be a Tibetan Terrier. About 20 pounds or so. Hairy, not wiry. I grew up with Beardies and they were always so loyal and just all around great dogs!

You may be able to find a "Neardie" through a Bearded Collie rescue that comes in a bit shorter than a pure Beardie.

Good luck with your search!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I want to get the original Tibetan Terrier/Tibetan Mastiff combo









I have actually been looking at rotties, I know I said no to large breeds, mainly for their roughness with small dogs, but after seeing Sparkles (who was being a pain in the ___ to the rottie) interact with a friend's female german rottie,and how gentle the rott was, we may consider looking into a male rottie. Not decided at all yet, but I have spoken to people in rottie groups and according to them, rotties tend to be more aware of their size when playing with small dogs, and are gentle. 
I have many months to look and think on it though, no worries... If I do get rottie I am doing it right, getting a young pup from a good breeder with well mannered dogs and bitches, and making sure they have a low prey-drive in their adults, getting him into obedience and more exercise than I want. I could go with the friend who owns the GR, he goes many miles a day. 

But I'm sure if I find the perfect small/med dog before then, we'll snatch it up. We missed going to our Petsmart adoption yesterday, but we will try next week, since they often have entire litters. There was a litter of WGSD/Pyrenees. 

I just fell in love with a rotties pit-like behavior, without the major flaw of natural animal aggression driven into them. 
I love my friend's rottie, she can go off-lead on dog infested beaches and behave, as well as leave any dog she's playing with to come back, and she's had very little training.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I like bearded collies as well, but they're hard to find in shelters... 


But I will check out some rescues.


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