# Have you ever passed your GSD off as a Belgian Malinois?



## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

--Have you ever passed your GSD off as a Belgian Malinois/similiar breed? 

--If so, why? Was it to avoid BSL or apartment/home breed restrictions/other?

--Did you get caught doing so?



If you obtained your GSD from a BYB and it didn't have papers, it seems like you could call it a Belgian Malinois or a similiar breed and not have much trouble. Just thought about this after reading a story online about BSL.


*** I am not looking for opinions on whether or not this is right or wrong. Simply looking for first hand experiences/stories. If you wish to discuss if this is right or wrong, start a new thread  ***


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

No, I have never done so.

I wouldn't do it to avoid BSL, either.. because unless you have paperwork to prove it, your dog is whatever AC says it is..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Uh, no. They don't look enough alike. I guess if you had a solid black GSD or a fawn with a black mask (pretty uncommon) you *might* be able to get away with it.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Once I said my longhaired German Shepherd was a Belgian Tervuren to get her groomed. No groomers would take a German Shepherd.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Read the fine print, but will not honor it. It is wrong to lie about your dog, sorry. Fight the bad legislation and make your dog a good ambassador to the breed. Stop condoning all the "accidents" where dogs make puppies, get loose, bite, etc. Be angry when someone is irresponsible with your breed. That is where this stuff leads too. 

People who pass a dog off as something else to get into housing, whatever, will most likely be tossed out of that housing if anything happens anywhere involving your dog or not involving your dog. Then suddenly Peanuts needs to go to the shelter, or a rescue because you cannot find a place quickly to move to or simply cannot do it. 

If I start a thread in the breeding section:

Did you ever breed a female under nine months old?

If so why? Was it an oops?

Where there negative consequences?

*** not looking for opinions, if you want to state an opinion, start a new thread ***

Who will listen? 

I think as a community, we should not suggest or condone this type of lying. And having a whole thread for people to talk about it without any dissenter, well it would send the wrong message.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Zena, on paper, was a shiloh shepherd or an east european shepherd for purposes of getting her into our last apartment and house rental. East european shepherd is Russia's GSD and Shiloh Shepherds can come in the short stock coat, though they're seen less often whereas there are only a few EES's in the US because as a my russian history teacher put it 'We're very stingy about our favorite dogs'. I've only met ONE EES and that was Mr. K's (dont ask me to try and spell his name, it will be butchered horribly!) male that he brought over when he moved to the states with his wife. Beyond his, i'm only aware of 4 others where they tried to breed and the cost was too much for them. I'm not saying how we managed to get Zena in to rentals was right but nobody argued and wasnt about to bring in a breed expert to argue against it. A belgian malinois could be difficult to pull off as they're becoming more common.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I totally agree it is wrong to misrepresent the dog to avoid BSL or for any reason. Lying is lying and will getcha in the end.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

In no way is this thread condoning lying. It simply asks for stories about people who have lied in the past, and what happened when they were caught. That actually makes it less likely that people will try to lie in the future....

Must you turn every thread into a fight? It seems that in every thread you overtake, things instantly turn from positive to negative. Seriously, go hug your dog and stop being such a downer!

*The reason I didn't ask for opinions on if it is right or wrong is because we already know the majority of people think it is wrong. When people read the post you just made, they know that if they post their own experience, people like you will attack them.*


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Just tell people he's an Alsatian


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Lying is lying, wow. I just wanted my dog bathed and brushed and no groomer would take a German Shepherd. So yeah, I lied and said she was a Belgian Tervuren. I don't see how terrible that is.


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## Alyalanna (May 28, 2011)

Jax's Mom said:


> Just tell people he's an Alsatian


That is an awesome suggestion!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I don't think it is bad at all. A kennel I was boarding at in the past asked for Rocky's breed. I said "I don't have any papers on him, but I was told he is a pure bred GSD". The lady said..."Hmm.. we don't take GSD....did you see the parents? do you think he could have been a mix?" She said it as if she wanted me to say yes. So I said "possibly". I dropped him off the next day and she told me the owner didn't like german shepherds, which is why she put him down as a mix. She said she had a GSD when she grew up and knew how great they were.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Jax's Mom said:


> Just tell people he's an Alsatian


And it's not a lie.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> In no way is this thread condoning lying. It simply asks for stories about people who have lied in the past, and what happened when they were caught. That actually makes it less likely that people will try to lie in the future....
> 
> Must you turn every thread into a fight? It seems that in every thread you overtake, things instantly turn from positive to negative. Seriously, go hug your dog and stop being such a downer!
> 
> *The reason I didn't ask for opinions on if it is right or wrong is because we already know the majority of people think it is wrong. When people read the post you just made, they know that if they post their own experience, people like you will attack them.*


Oh, I just don't have a problem with people feeling inhibited about telling about how they pulled one over on someone. 

I think that your situation was something most of us would do in a pinch. The owner does not like GSDs so the employee is working around that, which is not ideal. I think that I would probably also use the place if it was a last minute type deal, but then I would go elsewhere. I do not think I would want to board somewhere that there was a known dislike for the breed. 

If he dislikes them, he will distrust them, he might treat them differently, he might let his anxiety feed into them. I would be looking for another place to board if at all possible.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

selzer said:


> Oh, I just don't have a problem with people feeling inhibited about telling about how they pulled one over on someone.


Honestly, if I had to lie in order to keep my dogs, I'd probably do it.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Maybe I should have told the groomer my dog was a Deutscher Schaeferhund. That's what her papers say.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I haven't and wouldn't, though I can't think of a situation where I'd need to. If a groomer, boarding facility, vet, whatever is biased against my breed they aren't getting my business. I do pay a higher homeowner's premium because of my GSDs. That is the only situation I've encountered so far where breed mattered.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

To answer the question- no I have not.


APBTLove said:


> No, I have never done so.
> 
> I wouldn't do it to avoid BSL, either.. because unless you have paperwork to prove it, your dog is whatever AC says it is..


I agree totally with APBTLove. There is a current thread about BSL in MI, which linked to the actual ordinance. In it, it states:


> DANGEROUS DOG
> (C) Any dog of a breed that appears consistently in the top five (5) of the breeds on credible, analytical listings of “Most Dangerous Dogs” as verified and supplemented by local data and records for Saginaw County. The “list” shall include any dog that by physical appearance could be believed by any reasonable person to have sufficient physical or temperamental characteristics or behaviors to be a “mix” of any of the breeds listed or a “mix” with a non-listed dog where the mixture exhibits the dominant physical appearance of a dog on the list, and any other dog that has the substantial physical characteristics and appearance of those breeds


There is no sense in lying about the breed when it comes to BSL. The dog only has to remotely resemble the "dangerous" breed in order to actually be labelled as that breed. So lie if you want, but it most likely won't help you when it comes to BSL; that's the reason I wouldn't do it in that case.

I think the suggestion about Alsatian is a good one when it comes to groomers or what have you, though I would question if I want my GSD at a place that specifically has a problem with GSDs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mrs.K said:


> Honestly, if I had to lie in order to keep my dogs, I'd probably do it.


If I had to lie to keep my dogs. I would. 

Yes, that is a totally different story. 

If I had to lie to get into housing where they are not allowed -- no. 

If suddenly, no grandfather clause, no nothing, it is no longer lawful to own a GSD, which has happened to people with pitts. I would hide them, I would lie, I would die their coats, or cut their hair. 

And this is why, though I get my licenses every year, I understand why a lot of people with pits do not. It is like waving your hands, here we are, here we are, confiscate and euthanize us first, we obeyed all your crappy laws and bought your licenses, now take our dogs and kill them.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

I've met and left several vets who don't like German Shepherds, and it was blatantly obvious they didn't like my dog. Those people I would never go back to. The groomer I never went back to.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

selzer said:


> If suddenly, no grandfather clause, no nothing, it is no longer lawful to own a GSD, which has happened to people with pitts. I would hide them, I would lie, I would die their coats, or cut their hair.


...That reminds me, when we first got Jax, one of our neighbors told us a story about the GSD they used to have. A man who had dialysis tubes in his arms was playing with their dog, something happened to the tubes (the dog didn't bite, the tubes just got caught or pulled or something), blood everywhere, ambulance was called, home insurance was notified and the insurance company told them they had to get rid of the dog of they'd cancel their policy. They could get another GSD, just not keep the same one. Then one day their GSD ran away but they found another one of similar age and size, only this one was black


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> Zena, on paper, was a shiloh shepherd or an east european shepherd for purposes of getting her into our last apartment and house rental. East european shepherd is Russia's GSD and Shiloh Shepherds can come in the short stock coat, though they're seen less often whereas there are only a few EES's in the US because as a my russian history teacher put it 'We're very stingy about our favorite dogs'. I've only met ONE EES and that was Mr. K's (dont ask me to try and spell his name, it will be butchered horribly!) male that he brought over when he moved to the states with his wife. Beyond his, i'm only aware of 4 others where they tried to breed and the cost was too much for them. I'm not saying how we managed to get Zena in to rentals was right but nobody argued and wasnt about to bring in a breed expert to argue against it. A belgian malinois could be difficult to pull off as they're becoming more common.


 
sorry internet died on me so i couldnt edit. As we adopted Zena and didnt have pedigree paperwork or anything like that on her, for all we or anyone knows, she could very well have been a short coat shiloh. We'll never know for sure but its always possible. We only know a little bit of Zena's history and thats because her previous adopters released the information to the humane society when we questioned if it was possible to get in touch with them.


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## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

If I remember right we simply "forgot to mention" Amadeus when my mom rented a place. German Shepherds were on their list of breeds that weren't allowed. We were only staying there for a couple of months. No cats were allowed either... Whoops.  Sometimes, like then, you just gotta do something you normally wouldn't do. She was a single mom not making a lot of money and the people who owned the house we were renting had an emergency and had to move in. There weren't a lot of options of where to go in a few days notice.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

If I had to so I can keep my dog then yes I would.

Otherwise no. People have asked if Molly was mixed with Husky because of her tail.The people we got her from said her dad was a purebred GSD and her mom was half GSD, but she looks purebred and acts like it, just her tail throws everything off.lol.

Tanner was listed a GSD Mix at the shelter. Plus, he is all black, has a thicker coat(he isn't a LH) and his tail also curls, and people have asked if he is part Malamute. So he can pass as a mix.

But otherwise, unless I really have to, I won't lie about my dogs breed.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I dumped my home owners insurance after being insured by them for 10 years , when they decided at one point gsd's were on there "do not own" list. They actually wanted me to dump my dogs, which I absolutely would not do. 

I couldn't find insurance fast enough, so yep, I did lie, (I only had Sami & Dodge at the time, both were seniors and I did'n't know how much longer I'd have them So I said they were both gsd mixes.. Since then, I went with another carrier who has no problem with my gsd


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

State Farm has no breed restrictions, we were with them for a long time. We just switched to Erie, saved some money, and they have no breed restrictions either. I checked and made our agent write it in that they do not discriminate against any breed on a breed basis. Everything is case by case. he didn't even care what breed of dog we had, but I was adamant there be no discrimination of any breed to any insurance company I was sending money to. 

It would be nice if we could compile a list, or is there and I just missed it ?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The recent WDJ has an article on insurance and breed discrimination 

How Dog Breed Discrimination Can Affect Your Homeowners Insurance Coverage - Whole Dog Journal Article


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I should say, our auto and homeowner's is through a small agency that only insures local teachers. They have extremely low rates but you will pay extra for anything out of the ordinary (certain dog breeds, trampoline, pool, certain types of rec vehicles and toys, etc). Even with the slightly higher rate b/c of the GSDs it's still cheaper AND better than anything else the other chains offered, more covered and lower deductible. We actually switched TO this agency. The GSDs' liability is covered, I just pay a tad more for it.

With my previous landlord I was always up front about my breeds of dogs and what each dog is being trained for. We also had our own rental insurance that covered some liability and our agency did not care about breed or training. We had All State then.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Dunno why insurance can't just exclude the dog? They can exclude riot, arson, terrorism, flood, earthquake, "act of god", but not "act of dog"?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree, just don't pay out if the dog "acts out"...it would be up to the owner to cover any lawsuit or medical.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> Dunno why insurance can't just exclude the dog? They can exclude riot, arson, terrorism, flood, earthquake, "act of god", but not "act of dog"?


I prefer my dogs to be included, so in that regard I don't mind paying a bit more. The dogs are not included as possessions (well honestly I'm not sure as far as my current homeowner's, but with my All State rental policy I could not file a claim if someone stole my dog), but if my dog bites someone on my property I can claim that against the homeowner's. If my dogs were not included, I'd probably want some other policy to cover the liability. You never know when some stupid kid is going to hop your fence, try to rob you, and then sue YOU if your dog nips at his butt on his way back over the fence...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I spent a few years with an insurance company and looked into the underwriting process (decides what to cover and the rates to charge) - breed "discrimination" is NOT discrimination as most folks think of the term.

Decisions of what to insure and rates are based on objective numbers - claims and costs versus revenue.

The industry compiles voluminus statistics of every sort and type and the insurance companies decisions are based on their interpretation of these.

For example, should men under 25 be charged a higher car insurance rate than a 35 yo woman? They are and quite dramatically. Is this discrimination?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

We have USAA as our renter's insurance and they dont have breed restrictions. We even pointed that out at one place we rented that originally said no GSDs but because we had renters insurance and they didnt have anything wrong with our breed of choice, the company made an exception. With Riley's its easy. he's a GSD/border collie mix so when moving in, he's a border collie mix. Because Shasta is a sable, she's easier to claim as a mix if necessary as well but with base housing we've not had any issues with their breeds and we still have renters insurance as well so we're good.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

This is true about men under 25 but I don't know of any option to demonstrate that a dog such as a GSD is NOT a menage to society through temperament testing and performance titles. The boy gets a discount for drivers ed etc and is still covered, albiet, at a premium.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Liesje said:


> I prefer my dogs to be included, so in that regard I don't mind paying a bit more. The dogs are not included as possessions (well honestly I'm not sure as far as my current homeowner's, but with my All State rental policy I could not file a claim if someone stole my dog), but if my dog bites someone on my property I can claim that against the homeowner's. If my dogs were not included, I'd probably want some other policy to cover the liability. You never know when some stupid kid is going to hop your fence, try to rob you, and then sue YOU if your dog nips at his butt on his way back over the fence...


I don't entirely disagree but if the insurance company is threatening to refuse a client based on their dog, I'm willing to bet 90% of people will want to keep their dog, so it's just bad for business. In Canada if you have a mortgage, you must purchase mortgage insurance and home insurance, so if insurance companies start to make a big deal about dogs, they're going to have problems.
However, if someone trespasses on our property,


> Protection of persons or property
> (2)**Where a person is on premises with the intention of committing, or in the commission of, a criminal act on the premises and incurs damage caused by being bitten or attacked by a dog, the owner is not liable under section 2 unless the keeping of the dog on the premises was unreasonable for the purpose of the protection of persons or property. R.S.O. 1990, c.*D.16, s.*3*(2).
> Dog Owners' Liability Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16


Trespassing is a absolute liability offense which means it is up to the trespasser to prove that they had a right to be on your property, so if someone jumps your fence and your dog bites them, that's unfortunate for the person who got bit.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Jax's Mom said:


> Trespassing is a absolute liability offense which means it is up to the trespasser to prove that they had a right to be on your property, so if someone jumps your fence and your dog bites them, that's unfortunate for the person who got bit.


unless it is a child. children of a certain age aren't considered "able" to trespass. Or rather, that they aren't considered old enough to "know" what trespassing is and that they are doing it (maybe that's a better explanation)?

Also, in some cases it is possible that a dog would be considered an "attractive nuisance" the same as a swimming pool - something you own that would actually entice people to trespass


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BTW, those who have "fibbed' about your dog 9or anything else on an application, be aware that the insurance companies are not stupid - they (most of them anyway) have a group of very competent investigators that they will usually use on any major claim.

And if you happen to be unlucky enough to get "caught' - you are then "naked" so to speak without any insurance (and may be subject to "insurance fraud" in extreme cases). Be careful!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Trampolines can be a reason to be canceled by insurance companies. It doesn't take much to _not_ get coverage. Pretty soon, having a teenager in the home will be a liability.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> This is true about men under 25 but I don't know of any option to demonstrate that a dog such as a GSD is NOT a menage to society through temperament testing and performance titles. The boy gets a discount for drivers ed etc and is still covered, albiet, at a premium.


Is it discrimination? Yes! But based on hard evidence in the case of people. (and for GSD's, they bite a lot and the cases are expensive to settle as well)

The insurance companies are based on hard statistics about the number and cost of accidents based on different classes of drivers. these classes are derived by very smart statistitcians.

Do you know of any similar statistics that would demonstrate the difference in "bites" from GSD's (Or other breeds) with a CGC (for example) versus those without one. 

How about other training degrees? 

I would guess for example that a dog with a UD would be less likely to bite than the average dog without one, BUT I have no hard data to prove it.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> unless it is a child. children of a certain age aren't considered "able" to trespass. Or rather, that they aren't considered old enough to "know" what trespassing is and that they are doing it (maybe that's a better explanation)?
> 
> Also, in some cases it is possible that a dog would be considered an "attractive nuisance" the same as a swimming pool - something you own that would actually entice people to trespass


Children 12 and over are considered criminally responsible in Canada. 
Children 12 and under tend to not be able to sue for much. Not trying to be funny, but "damages" are hard to claim.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> Trampolines can be a reason to be canceled by insurance companies. It doesn't take much to _not_ get coverage. Pretty soon, having a teenager in the home will be a liability.


Exactly!

Our Ins agent actually told us to remove the dogs from the home during the home inspection. He said they would flag any dog...not a certain breed, that was barking and acting in a guarding manner. He did, however, tell me to sell the new trampoline we had just bought. He said it was to risky to have one. lol


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what's BSL and no i would never pass
my dog off as another breed? i don't see
the need to do that. now, i have played blind
to get my dog in certain places.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I haven't read this whole thread, sorry, but my malinois looks nothing like my GSDs.

The average joe thinks he's a midget GSD with the wrong color. Just tonight, again, someone referred to him as the poor little midget GSD.....yes, seriously.

But any insurance investigator is gonna figure it out when they so much as google what a malinois is. The german shepherd is a very recognizable breed. You may be able to fool the average non dog person, but if your dog bites someone and your home owners insurance is supposed to fork over 10K or whatever, they are going to look into things beyond what you say your dog is.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> now, i have played blind
> to get my dog in certain places.


I've thought about that. Knowing my luck, the first thing Jax would so is run down some stairs :rofl:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well now, with an act of war or a flood, there is federal help -- I know, but the insurance companies would all go under if they had to pay out to everyone in a disaster of epic proportions. So you as a homeowner are out of luck, if you are even alive. You go defunct and there is no shame in bankruptcy if it is due to something completely out of your control. So I do not know how that would even work. 

Flood -- well, you cannot get a home loan if you are in a flood zone, without flood insurance. Flood zones and flood insurance are set up and sold by the feds and and no one else. I should know this, though I lived on a mountain, with no chance of flooding, unless God should break his promise and kill off the world again with flood, I am pretty safe from floods. But I had to fork out MORE than Home Owner's insurance for this stupid flood insurance. I switched lenders, and they checked, and somehow, now I am not in a flood zone. But anyway, if you owe on your home, then you need to carry flood insurance if you are in a flood zone. 

If your house is flooded, your flood insurance pays up. 

But if your dog bites someone, people sue you. Let's say your dog bit some kid and the kid needed hundreds of stitches and plastic surgery to the tune of $120,000. You should pay for this. You hold insurance for this kind of thing, so that when the lawyers are done, you still have a house to live in. 

But you say, fine take my house, got along before it, will rent for a while and build up my capital again. Well, not so quick. Most people really do not own their homes. They own the equity in their homes. And with home-equity loans, many people own very little of their home at all. If your home is worth 100k, and you owe 70k and you have a second mortgage for 25k, you have not much. 

You do not have home owner's insurance for yourself, you have it for the bank who owns your home. What can the bank do? If there is a war or other serious disaster, they will probably have to go defunct with everyone else. But they do not want to lose out on their money because you have a GSD. Sorry. They require you to have home owner's insurance so that if Joe Schmo gets bit in the butt, he doesn't have your home, and you are not walking around the streets owing the Bank of America $100,000 with no collateral.

So the insurance companies cannot just say, we will pay for anything BUT dog bites. The bank that holds the mortgage might not be in agreement.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

doggiedad said:


> now, i have played blind
> to get my dog in certain places.


I hope that was a joke.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I thought the same thing when i read it. 

I am wondering if someone is just bored tonight.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Lin said:


> I hope that was a joke.


Uh oh doggiedad- you're screwed now.


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

I passed him off as a Dutch once. Just because these people were really pissing me off that day.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I have not. I don't think Bianca could pass as another breed anyway although some people have though she was a wolf dog or asked me what breed she was or what she was 'mixed with' (she is a classic black/red saddleback so that always confuses me.) However I was considering adopting a dog who looked like he was part American Pit Bull Terrier and if I had adopted him I might have registered him as a Hound/Terrier mix or a Hound mix (which is what the shelter had him listed as anyway.) He was tri-colored mostly black and tan, with white markings.




asja said:


> Once I said my longhaired German Shepherd was a Belgian Tervuren to get her groomed. No groomers would take a German Shepherd.


That stinks! I haven't had a problem but I've only taken Bianca to two groomers, neither of them had an issue with her breed.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Nope, I haven't needed to. I've never experienced any stigma against german shepherds.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I've never been put in the position where I felt I had to lie about having GSDs and hope I never am.


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

I don't have a problem with it depending on the circumstances. I was TOLD forcefully once that Madix was a certain breed (can't remember now what), and I just went with it. I kind of just say whatever it is the person wants to hear - and if that's the truth, great - if it's apparent they have something stuck in their head then I just roll with it. Unless I'm in the mood to argue I suppose. I don't care what breeds people think my dogs are and I don't see how it affects WHO they are anyway. 

Example - Madix is an unstable dog who is allowed into a certain apartment complex because he's a DUTCH Shepherd. Whereas I know all sorts of GERMAN Shepherds that are MUCH more stable and reliable, they would not be allowed. I think that's dumb.

ETA: my vet's office had Madix down as a Malinois (I realize that is not what this thread is asking) because they could only choose from a list of AKC recognized breeds. Another example of "I don't care, mark him as something"...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

before the insurance company decided to black list gsd's, I did have an agent come here because of a claim I had in on water damage, he met my dogs and LOVED them, as they did him This was a couple years prior to the black list.

When they black listed, I said I would be happy to give them references from my AC, show obed certificates, canine good citizen and they could MEET my dogs, nope wouldn't fly..they kept bugging me to 'come back' when I dumped them, I said not until I get in writing that my gsd's are not a problem with my HO coverage..At one point I got an agent who said NO PROBLEM< dump the new coverage we'll cover you. I again insisted on having it in writing, well, a call back, said gee they are on our "do not cover list"...well duh...

I told them to quite sending/calling me,,it was ALLstate by the way..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have no problem with Travelers eitehr BTW

I dumped State Farm after they dumped my parents in Florida who had 30+ years with no cliams. Yes, hurricanes but their location had excellent claim history.


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## onyxena (Oct 24, 2007)

When we first brought Sasha to our vet almost 3 years ago, after pulling her from a high kill county shelter, the tech was absolutely certain she was a Belgian Malinois! Her records even have her breed listed as malinois! Of course I said I was quite certain she was a pure GSD. But the tech was set, looked up pics of a Turvuren, and promptly labeled her a Malinois??? But I was not really into arguing, they took excellent care of her, no prejudice at all. They adored her throughout her extensive treatment on her long recovery from kennel couch/pneumonia. 

Here is my lovely Malinois!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> I don't entirely disagree but if the insurance company is threatening to refuse a client based on their dog, I'm willing to bet 90% of people will want to keep their dog, so it's just bad for business. In Canada if you have a mortgage, you must purchase mortgage insurance and home insurance, so if insurance companies start to make a big deal about dogs, they're going to have problems.
> However, if someone trespasses on our property,
> 
> Trespassing is a absolute liability offense which means it is up to the trespasser to prove that they had a right to be on your property, so if someone jumps your fence and your dog bites them, that's unfortunate for the person who got bit.


We have the same, homeowners and mortgage insurance. Most of the companies around here did not care about dogs or training. It just so happened that the best option did, but is still a better policy. I really had zero trouble finding a home owner's policy that met our needs and was fair. It wasn't really a big deal. And as I said this particular company charges more for *anything* out of the normal, not just dogs (like what the exterior of the house is made of, if you have a shed, a trampoline in the yard....). They only accept teachers in our state and only write policies for people with very little liability. So far they have not had a problem staying in business.

Trespassing may be a liability offense but anyone can sue anyone. Doesn't mean it won't cost me time and money having to use my time, go to court, etc. Besides I am not naive about my dog breed. They are a protective, powerful breed and I know too many people who have been attacked by GSDs. If I had a dollar for every time someone's dog bit someone else and the owner insisted their dog had always been nice and calm and social.... Personally I don't have a problem paying a few more bucks each month so that I am protected.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

onyxena said:


> But the tech was set, looked up pics of a Turvuren, and promptly labeled her a Malinois???


I guess she stopped a little short in the differences between the belgian shepherds, to have looked up Turv and labeled her a Mal lmao. 

I hate insurance! All types. Reading some of your guys stories makes me so mad. Almost as mad as the bull with health insurance.


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## Sue Smart (Jul 12, 2002)

I never passed Layla off as anything other than a German Shepherd but I once had a woman say 'what a lovely Malinois' I said thanks but she's a German Shepherd. 'Oh no she's definitely a Malinois, I used to breed them'.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Niko doesn't look like any other kind of dog than a German shepherd. No way anyone who saw him would think he was a mal. And I wouldn't ever lie about it on paper. With my luck something bad would happen and I'd get found out. I'm not a very good liar anyway.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I've had people ask numerous times if my dogs were tervs, but I always tell them no, they're GSDs. Like Gayle, I've never been in a position where I've needed to lie about them.


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## mjoy07 (Jun 19, 2011)

maybe because they have some similarities.
sometimes a Mal looks like a GSD especially the Belgian Shepherd.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

mjoy07 said:


> sometimes a Mal looks like a GSD especially the Belgian Shepherd.


A Malinois IS a Belgian Shepherd. The Belgian Shepherd is divided into 4 varieties depending on coat type. In the US the varieties are considered separate breeds. They include the Malinois, Tervuren, Laekenois, and Groenendael. 

I've also had people think my coatie is a Terv. I found it surprising since GSDs are so much more common! But then I guess anyone can watch a dog show on tv and see the Terv while not knowing GSDs come in long hair. I also frequently get collie mix. Strange thing though is since I got Emma everyone seems to correctly identify Tessa as a GSD! Before everyone would ask me what Tessa (a sable) was mixed with. Even when I had Logan who was more classic looking (blanket back) everyone thought Tessa was a mix.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Which is the one that is all black? I thought that was just called a Belgian Sheep dog or Shepherd.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The Groenendael is the black one, they are called "Belgian Shepherd" in AKC.

When Vinca was little, when she still had her puppy fuzz and a stripe down her back, I had a couple people ask me if she was a Malinois.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

No, I have never passed my dogs off as anything but what they are. It would never have occurred to me to do so, and I have never been faced with a situation where that might have seemed like a good idea. Our old dog Blue (long coat) was sometimes mistaken for a wolf hybrid however......
__________________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

If it came down to having having any breed-specific trouble, I would suddenly have a nice "black lab mix."


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Daisy said:


> If it came down to having having any breed-specific trouble, I would suddenly have a nice "black lab mix."


But it does not matter what YOU say. If the people who enforce BSL think you dog has GSD traits, temperament or looks, it does not matter what you say, it's their opinion that matters.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Jax's Mom said:


> Just tell people he's an Alsatian


My neighbors are south African and when we met they said "such a pretty Alsatian"


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Daisy said:


> If it came down to having having any breed-specific trouble, I would suddenly have a nice "black lab mix."


If it came down to it, I'd suddenly have strong libertarian tendencies to defend my family from unjust persecution by any means necessary


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

someone asked if mine was one the other day i was pretty suprised i do not think she looks like one and her color is nothing like it


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

hunterisgreat said:


> If it came down to it, I'd suddenly have strong libertarian tendencies to defend my family from unjust persecution by any means necessary


 Hey, we gotta go somehow, might as well be fighting for our four legged friends if they are ever subjected to disgusting and unjust discrimination.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

If it meant protecting my dog, I could and would, VERY convincingly argue that she was a chihuahua mix if necessary.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

*** Deleted by MOD due to content and language ***


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## CLARKE-DUNCAN (Apr 8, 2011)

I have never passed my Gsd of as anything, other than a bear....Lol...

There is probably alot of people here in the UK that haven't the faintest idea what a malinois is anyway, I always get people saying I like your German shepherd, So most people know at first glance that he is pure german shepherd....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

shilorio said:


> *** Original Post was deleted by Moderator due to content***


What a rude and angry post.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

selzer said:


> What a rude and angry post.


Yup. It sure was.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Freestep said:


> The Groenendael is the black one, they are called "Belgian Shepherd" in AKC.


Actually it's "Belgian Shepherd" in UKC, "Belgian Sheepdog" in AKC. One of my best friends breeds them and is a conformation judge. Those people are very particular about what you call their breed! I just call them "black dogs."


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DunRingill said:


> Actually it's "Belgian Shepherd" in UKC, "Belgian Sheepdog" in AKC.


I stand corrected! After I posted I got to thinking "Maybe it's Belgian Sheepdog"...  Why can't dogs have the same breed name in all the different registries?


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Freestep said:


> I stand corrected! After I posted I got to thinking "Maybe it's Belgian Sheepdog"...  Why can't dogs have the same breed name in all the different registries?


I only know it because I've heard people corrected often enough for saying the wrong name! 

If you want some real "fun" just mention to a hard-core AKC breeder that you'd like to see the breeds recombined into varieties of one breed. Just stand out of reach if you try it! and don't say I didn't warn ya


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

just say Groenendael to be safe... 


Or wait, how the **** do you pronounce Groenendael?!!? 

Seriously though, I can never say that one right. The others I find easy though.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

if you could break it up in pieces with pronunciation guides and where the accent should be, I might attempt it.

It looks kind of like: groan en dale?


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

When you look it up, there's more than one pronunciation that claims to be correct... 

Groon-en-dahl
Groon-en-dell
Groan-in-dale
Grow-en-en-doll
Gron-en-dale
Groan-en-dahl

I'm sure somewhat it depends on what country you're in when saying it...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, that is clear as mud, thank you -- none of them are the way I would have done it.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Yeah Groenendael is a hard one. At least with Tervuren you can shorten it to Terv.
I usually just say "Belgian Sheepdog" and people get what I mean.

I once met an adorable Laekenois puppy at a pet event, the owner was so surprised that I actually even recognized the breed that I don't think he even noticed my probable mispronunciation.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I think I could pronounce Laekenois fine, but I don't think I could recognize the breed lol. I just can't wrap my brain around that wire terriers type coat on a shepherd body. So I'm sure I'd assume some sort of terrier mix before correctly identifying a Laekenois.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Someone on the site has one. I cannot remember who, but I actually did recognize it. (I think it was shortly after a dog world spotlight on the breed.) Whoever does own them, don't be upset at my inability to remember who has them, I have trained with people for three years, gone through puppy and basic and more advanced classes than I want to think about with this person, and the best I can do, is name her dogs. It is pathetic really. 

I will try to do a search, might find them and post a link....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is BlackPuppy. Here is a thread with a Laekenois doing bite work, and just above the groanendael - ick, the Belgium sheep dog doing bitework:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ature-medium-standard-gsds-2.html#post2033676


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

selzer said:


> Someone on the site has one. I cannot remember who, but I actually did recognize it.


Actually IIRC I think we figured out that BlackPuppy's dog is most likely the littermate of the Laekenois I mentioned that I'd met. I think that's who it was unless there are two members with the breed.


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