# Questioning Inter-Bitch Aggression



## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I've had two fights in almost as many days between three bitches in my house. I am happy to share the novella of details I had originally posted, but my basic hope is to get more responses from folks on this forum who have had experience with bitch fights and how it has played out for them over time.

I'm well aware that some bitches are blood-bound enemies. I've met a pair; they can't even see each other through a cage door without making the Twelfth Level of Torment look like a happy place. I completely understand that in some cases, diligent management and total isolation is the only real method of dealing with inter-bitch aggression.

I'm wondering if there aren't folks out there who have had bitches who have fought (seriously) that went on to live comfortably with each other. I've heard from one person on another thread who, with good management, time, and training has a good rapport built back up. I'm hoping that there are more folks that have had success with restoring harmony.

I ask because despite both fights resulting in blood being drawn none of the bitches involved seem to harbor any lasting resentment. They can certainly look at each other, approach each other's cages. I've basket-muzzled and allowed one aggressor to investigate the other; no problems.

When I'm not present my dogs are individually kenneled or in their own areas of the house anyway, so this really doesn't make a difference to the way my dogs are managed when I'm not home. I'm just really harkening back to the days of yore (meaning... last week) when we would all go play ball in the yard and hoping that there are other folks who have not had to implement a military-style lockdown of all bitches as a result of a fight.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Keep them separated. It takes a couple weeks to get their hormones back in balance. We had terrible fights with Sierra and Jax. We started doing pack behavior building exercises. I went to TX and had Jax with me. We came back and have not had a single problem in over a year. No idea why. 

Maybe you need to go visit my sister in Texas!!! lol


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Keep them separated. It takes a couple weeks to get their hormones back in balance.


Oh, for sure! Miah gets waaay worse when she (or Lexi) is in heat... if she hadn't been spayed Miah would be in heat right now and Lexi should come in 2 weeks. It'll be separation central for at least a month!


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

When my two bitches used to fight, I kept them apart for just long enough to be sure they wouldn't lock backup (5-10 seconds), then I make them lie together in contact with each other and communicate any show of aggression at one another will cause I fight with me. Never had a fight break back out, and haven't had a fight in a year. Unless I am not home, they are loose and together in my home. Same thing when Katya is in heat. At one point they were fighting almost weekly. I had a period where they got corrected for so much as looking at eachother. This stopped all the fighting


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

If they fought once seriously, they will fight again, if left alone, unless one thrashed the other to the point of submission....then you can't leave them alone because the winner will make life miserable for the loser without your supervision. Keep them separated unless you are there to referee.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

I can only agree with the others. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> If they fought once seriously, they will fight again, if left alone, unless one thrashed the other to the point of submission....then you can't leave them alone because the winner will make life miserable for the loser without your supervision. Keep them separated unless you are there to referee.


Along those lines i wanted to clarify/reiterate, mine do not get to interact outside my supervision despite no more fighting. Aska (mom) is now submissive to Katya (daughter).


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

If you are like me and have an obvious instigator then I've had good success with that one just wearing a basket muzzle all the time unless separated. It sucks but works well. These are boys I'm talking about too, it's not just females like that, my female loves all other dogs. My 1 male is fine with my other dogs he grew up with but hates the new one's guts. They would truly kill each other I think with the level of aggression that comes out. They lock on to each others ears and necks, and we really struggled the last fight to get them apart, I was also bitten badly several times. I ended up having to choke the one while also holding off his nose holes, choking alone didn't work. It didn't work just to correct the instigator for certain behaviors, he would just do it the second I looked away and he is a very hard dog. The other male never starts fights. Sometimes now a year later they are ok just milling around the house together with no muzzle. But I never take my eyes off them if they are moving around.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

cliffson1 said:


> If they fought once seriously, they will fight again, if left alone, unless one thrashed the other to the point of submission....then you can't leave them alone because the winner will make life miserable for the loser without your supervision. Keep them separated unless you are there to referee.


As stated in the initial post, they're all separated when I am not home. A number of years ago a family I knew came home to one dead GSD, mauled by the other. Ever since I've kept them separated.

Lexi is submissive, always. She always bends to Miah and always has, never fought back. She's the omega by a longshot. Even during the fight she just screamed like the little weenie she is, on her back.

I am beginning to suspect that neither constitutes a true fight, as I was able to recall the aggressor both times without an issue. The first resulted in stitches and drain tubes, but all was surface. The second only resulted in a single small nick despite the theatrical nature of it. Definitely not the bitch-clashing I've seen that resulted in ears and paw pads parting company with their owners.

I've been letting them out together (except the youngest) with the basket muzzle on the bitchiest (Miah) to test my hypothesis. She's posturing like crazy and will hackle at Lexi and chest-bump her, and like usual Lexi just flops down and sucks up.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

If you have a hard time seperating while 
fighting get a breakstick ,that will help. 
Pit Bull Rescue Central. has them for sale. I have3 of them in my house just in case


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

you may not be seeing a true fight, because they are testing the waters, I think what you'll see happen is the fighting if it continues will get more intense. 

And I agree, once they've started, well, you can just about bank on it happening again, may not be today, may not be a month from now, but it will happen again.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

My personal experience when a gsd fights another dog it seems easier to work out than if 2 female gsds fight. IT is sad and really sucks but it just seems that way. Maybe because they are so much alike? I have no idea what it is. But it seems like for examle a lab and a gsd might be able to work it out a lot more easy than a gsd and gsd. I know for my dog she gets along with other female breeds a lot easier than gsd females. 

I would love to have another female it sucks though because even if I got a puppy eventually things will change when the pup grows up and is not my dogs "little baby" anymore.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

ugavet2012 said:


> If you are like me and have an obvious instigator then I've had good success with that one just wearing a basket muzzle all the time unless separated. It sucks but works well. These are boys I'm talking about too, it's not just females like that, my female loves all other dogs. My 1 male is fine with my other dogs he grew up with but hates the new one's guts. They would truly kill each other I think with the level of aggression that comes out. They lock on to each others ears and necks, and we really struggled the last fight to get them apart, I was also bitten badly several times. I ended up having to choke the one while also holding off his nose holes, choking alone didn't work. It didn't work just to correct the instigator for certain behaviors, he would just do it the second I looked away and he is a very hard dog. The other male never starts fights. Sometimes now a year later they are ok just milling around the house together with no muzzle. But I never take my eyes off them if they are moving around.



Even if they arent that hard I find some gsd's when they get into that killing mode turn into a pit and just don't stop until they cause a serious amount of damage. No matter what you are doing to them, sitting on them hitting pulling ears ettc.. I don't even think they are really true alpha dogs either. Not sure what they are. I would not think an alpha dog would have to fight so vicious all the time to earn its place. Maybe just hot headed and full of rage like some people lol


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

is the submissive one young by any chance? 2 or less? she might be just starting to mature making the other one insecure about her place as top dog? A lot of females are submissive at first but eventually they stop being put in that position.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I've had females that fought, and females that didn't. I had one young bitch who attacked my older female, twice, while she was in heat. After I had her spayed, there were no more fights. So if it's simply a hormonal thing, I think there's hope that peace may return. But once a bitch is out for blood and won't take no for an answer, I think there's nothing else to do but crate and rotate, or rehome one of them.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Well, my house is... totally back to normal. Better, actually. Blocking the rage-bitch's energy before she got a head full of steam made her quit in a few days, and my male is being very helpful by breaking up and tense moments with a good hump or two and a face-lick. It'll all change again when he goes back to his breeder, I'm sure; ranks will shift again.

As we speak they're all enjoying high-value pig feet chews all together, no restraints, collars, or muzzles, and all within two feet of each other having a good ol' time. I still won't put all of them out in the yard together (rage-y McRage gets her own potty time) but everyone else is working well.

pets4life, the submissive one is 18 mo. I'm expecting her to start asserting herself more with her next heat (two weeks, if she's on time). I find the temperament change happens around 24-26 months; then you can really see what they're made of.

The youngest (5.5 mo) is actually proving herself to be quite assertive. She won't let anybody take her toy or treat. I'm working on this, because a scuffle would not likely stay 'just a scuffle' any more. Any tips are welcome. She's very sensitive to me and so far a 'tisk' works just fine. And... actually, as I'm typing this she just calmly let another dog take it, so yay!

I'm absolutely certain that I'll always need to monitor group activity, and I'm not going to trust my bitchy bitch even for a moment out of my sight with the other females. I doubt we'll ever be the same as before but I'm really happy with where we are now, given that I was worried I'd have to have only one female out at a time. The tension that plagued the house for the first few days is totally gone and I consider our home downgraded from a red alert to a pleasant purple.

But as I say, any tips to continue to reinforce non-guarding over food items are welcome. I should clarify, I am totally fine with a dog growling or politely reminding other dogs that his/her item is not for the taking; they're dogs, I don't expect them to be perfect and I'd do the same thing if one of my coworkers started reaching for my sandwich at lunch. I just don't like any snap to it, or any major offensive moves. A good growl and a 'freeze' is about as high as it goes in my house, or the effective 'pick it up and turn your back on 'em'!


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Yes mar sounded like she was at that age where gsd bitches seem to stop wanting to bow down to queens. Shes stil submissive for now but yeahh like you said I doubht it will last. THe other one knows this, which is probably why shes going all insane and throwing a bitch fit. lol It could effect her queen status.

The youngest is just a baby and is not taken serious yet. Pups get away with everything. Even 8 month old husky pup will take a ball out of my dogs mouth. If a mature bitch tried that there would be ww3.


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