# Aggression? Dominance?



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I have a question about "dominance".

Friend has a dog who is about three years old.

One morning the dog was laying in the doorway to her bedroom. She started to walk over or by him to get into the room to get ready to go to work.

She was late to get to work that day - the dog would not let her by him to go into the room. Every time she tried the dog growled at her and she was actually afraid of her own dog. Couldn't get into the room until the dog moved.

The question is - Was this a case of a dominant dog?

Or maybe just an aggressive one?

Now, keep in mind, the dog did not have any food or any toys or any other thing with him in the doorway, he just didn't want to move or didn't want the owner to step over him.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Dog owns her, she needs to learn quick how to handle him. Otherwise it will get worse and he will end up in the pound.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Unfortunately, very true. The dog bit all three of them at different times - man, wife and teenage son. 

Most of the time a very, very nice friendly dog - until you wanted it to do something it didn't want to do. i wouldn't call it "aggressive" - not usually; but a VERY DOMINANT dog (esp. in it's own mind!).

I often wonder how a Positive Only trainer would handle a dog like this? What I heard from a couple of such trainers was "to offer the dog a 'higher value' treat to get him to learn he shouldn't guard the doorway"! Yea! That would work - unless he happened to be full at the time.

This is an example of what I would call a "dominant" dog (Alpha?).


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Unfortunately, very true. The dog bit all three of them at different times - man, wife and teenage son.
> This is an example of what I would call a "dominant" dog (Alpha?).


I would not go that far against the dog, it's a weak handler. A PVC pipe will "positively" get the message across.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how do you use the PVC pipe???



Packen said:


> I would not go that far against the dog, it's a weak handler. A PVC pipe will "positively" get the message across.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Agree, this isn't a dog issue, it is a clueless owner issue. Not so much that the dog is aggressive or dominant, more that the owners have utterly failed at establishing themselve's as alpha and gaining the dog's respect. They need the training more than the dog. 

Would they be open to getting a professional in and have this person observe their interactions to point out all the little bazillion everyday stuff that is going on where they unknowingly allow the dog to think he is in charge?


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## FG167 (Sep 22, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> Would they be open to getting a professional in and have this person observe their interactions to point out all the little bazillion everyday stuff that is going on where they unknowingly allow the dog to think he is in charge?


This is what I would advise.


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

Tell her to start with, there's a command called MOVE. Make the dog move and not her step over. Not out of fear, but out of who has the right to pass through or lay whereever. I wouldn't necessarily say the dog is a natural alpha, or it could be, but it has become one. The family should have consult with a trainer who will help them readjust pack dynamics. Training or a refresher training course would also help the dog understand who is in charge. If the dog is highly reactive and short-ciruits to violence, that is a different story. However, this sounds more like the dog has just learned to push everyone around and they let him. No PVC pipe needed, just growling out commands such as MOVE with some authority is adequate.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

doggiedad said:


> how do you use the PVC pipe???


Very easy, you just lightly tap the off switch.


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## Mom2Shaman (Jun 17, 2011)

Dogs have an off switch? I wish. That would be so convenient when you have to leave, put them neatly in their crate and hit the off switch and head off for the weekend.

My dogs learned a command growled kind of low from me means seriousness. Leave it is an important example of that -- like with the toad in the potty area this evening. They just need to learn to not be a pushover around the dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Packen said:


> Very easy, you just lightly tap the off switch.


 
Ha! Ha!

Good point!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Castlemaid said:


> Agree, this isn't a dog issue, it is a clueless owner issue. Not so much that the dog is aggressive or dominant, more that the owners have utterly failed at establishing themselve's as alpha and gaining the dog's respect. They need the training more than the dog.
> 
> Would they be open to getting a professional in and have this person observe their interactions to point out all the little bazillion everyday stuff that is going on where they unknowingly allow the dog to think he is in charge?


I disagree - I wouldn't put this completely on the owners and establishing who the alpha is. 

It was already mentioned that this dog already bit three members of it's immediate family. Though training (or lack thereof) may be an issue, it also sounds like a very unstable dog.

I do agree that a professional is definitely needed.


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## BGSD (Mar 24, 2011)

Mom2Shaman said:


> Dogs have an off switch? I wish. That would be so convenient when you have to leave, put them neatly in their crate and hit the off switch and head off for the weekend.
> 
> My dogs learned a command growled kind of low from me means seriousness. Leave it is an important example of that -- like with the toad in the potty area this evening. They just need to learn to not be a pushover around the dog.


I've done the growling thing too.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

How much training have they done with the dog? How much is the dog "required" to do to earn things in every day life? What is their level of congrol of their in general?


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Regardless of what you call it--aggression/dominance--this behavior is unacceptable. The dog has bit and now is growling and guarding doorways. It's interesting that Codmaster asks what positive only trainers would do in this situation. I'm curious as well.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Cod...have they had this dog since it was a puppy??


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

blehmannwa said:


> It's interesting that Codmaster asks what positive only trainers would do in this situation. I'm curious as well.


What I'd love to know is how the pro-alpha roll people would treat this particular case. 

Lets see them try to attempt to roll this dog on his back and see how that goes for them. That would not be a pretty site to see to say the least.

It's probably a lot easier to alpha roll a rambunctious puppy when trying to "establish dominance".


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Paul...hey!...me too!
I still can't understand how "owner aggression" has become so common??
Growing up...I've always been taught that behavior is not a "request"...it's a "requirement".


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm lucky enough to have never had to deal with "owner aggression" before. I've always been lucky with all of my dogs - they've really all been great when it comes to training, obedience, knowing their place in the pack, and all that. *believe it or not, without ever alpha rolling a single one of them*

I know if I did, my first step would be to bring in a professional trainer with experience with these types of issues that I felt comfortable working with. This type of situation is definitely not for your typical puppy obedience trainer.

At this point, it's really out of the OP's friends hands. After that first bite, that's strike one, two, and three all at once if you ask me. A professional behaviorist/trainer needs to get involved here ASAP. 

If that doesn't work and if possible, maybe even rehome the dog with a different owner who knows how to handle a dog like this. Problem with that is there probably isn't a long list of people with that type of experience just waiting and willing to take in these types of dogs.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I don't think we know enough about the dog to label him anything. We can say that the owners are not in control and that his behavior is unacceptable.

Not a positive only trainer but I do believe in positive training first and fair training.

If this dog were in my care, he would lose absolutely all freedom and privileges. He'd be on a strict schedule of eating, pottying, exercising and training. He'd be leashed to me at all times and crated when not directly supervised. Strict NILIF. No alpha rolling required, just good, strong leadership that clearly defines boundaries and expectations.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Do NOT try the alpha roll, talk about a bite waiting to happen!!! Simply don't feed the dog, insist on certain things then feed the dog 1 piece of kibble at a time, doing what you want!!! I find they move if I keep going and walk into them, but only after they knwo their place. Look up NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free, make them do your bidding, it won't take long if everyone in the family takes control. Dog wants out only after the person goes out, even if usually you let him into the yard, stop doing that, go into the yard first, maybe walk a bit, the let the dog out, same as going in, you first..dogs quickly catch on, boss controls food, and walks with dog under control behind or beside, leaders lead. This si not to say they always follow, can't track, herd, etc from behind but to get control this is a big thing


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