# Pros and Cons of limited vs. full registration



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

What are the things you can and can't do with limited vs. full registration. I understand you can't breed with limited, but what are the others?


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You can't show in conformation in AKC. I believe you can in USCA. 

You can do all sports with limited in all venues.


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

My breeder charges $1,200 limited and $2,000 full. Do you think that is a little high for full?


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Limited it the best registry!

You won't be tempted to breed  and you can participate in all the dog 'sports' which are the fun things to do with your dog!


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Limited it the best registry!
> 
> You won't be tempted to breed  and you can participate in all the dog 'sports' which are the fun things to do with your dog!


I wouldn't want to breed in the first place, I was considering showing him than I thought you can't show long hair gsd.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have full registry.

Really, Honestly...if you never have any intention of breeding or showing in AKC conformation then full registry would be a waste of money for you.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bella67 said:


> I wouldn't want to breed in the first place, I was considering showing him than I thought you can't show long hair gsd.



What about USCA? I don't believe you need full for an SV show. Is he a WGSL?


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> I have full registry.
> 
> Really, Honestly...if you never have any intention of breeding or showing in AKC conformation then full registry would be a waste of money for you.


Why do you think it'd be a waste of money? And no, he is German Show Lines.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

With full, you can show your dog in akc conformation shows and if you breed the dog to another akc registered dog, the puppies can be registered with the akc. 

With limited, you cannot show in akc shows and you will not be able to register any puppies out of him with the akc. 

If you don't plan to show or breed, don't get full. If you do, get full. 

Some breeders will charge more for full - not all do. 
Personally I sell all pups at the same price and only sell on limited reg. I remove limited at age 2 if the dog meets a set of qualifications. I don't charge more for changing limited to full.


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Bella67 said:


> My breeder charges $1,200 limited and $2,000 full. Do you think that is a little high for full?


Depends on the quality of the pup.

Also, I could be incorrect on this...you can show a coat if you choose. Chances are a coat will be put at the end of the line.....

Per the AKC standard..." Faults in coat include soft, silky, too long outer coat, woolly, curly, and open coat. "...and as far as disqualifications are concerned for the breed standard..."_Cropped or hanging ears. Dogs with noses not predominantly black. Undershot jaw. Docked tail. White dogs. Any dog that attempts to bite the judge."_


SuperG


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

In SV shows, the long coats have their own class and do not show with stock coat dogs. If you had a coat with structure you felt was good enough to show, you could show in SV long coat classes - there are usually less entires and long coats don't have as much competition


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

qbchottu said:


> In SV shows, the long coats have their own class and do not show with stock coat dogs. If you had a coat with structure you felt was good enough to show, you could show in SV long coat classes - there are usually less entires and long coats don't have as much competition


I read a bit about what you are referring to and also noted that a longstock is restricted to breeding with the same type of hair.

This is from a previous GSD Forum posted by Whiteshepherds 3 years ago.

Breed Standard Amendment - SV

About German shepherd Dog : German Shepherds Breed Standard Amendment | New GSD Standard For Hair Types - Long Straight Topcoat With Under-coat


SuperG


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Depends on the quality of the pup.
> 
> Also, I could be incorrect on this...you can show a coat if you choose. Chances are a coat will be put at the end of the line.....
> 
> ...


Well the breeder I'm getting the puppy from is Schlossflesen Kennels, Berlin/Hudson litter and I get 2nd pick. So I think the puppy would have good quality possibly?


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If you are breeding in Germany under SV standards, you can only breed a long coat to a long coat. But in the United States, long coats and stock coats can be bred without any change in akc registration. 

In any SV shows, regardless of where, stock coats can only show with stock coats and long coats can only show with long coats


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Why is it that it can be all about the money from a buyer's perspective, but if a breeder charges more than the norm, or more than what a buyer wants to pay, or more for a full registration, well that is just wrong, wrong, wrong?

Look, $2,000 won't buy you alcohol for an average wedding reception, which is over and done with in a night. But for a dog you might want to show, that you want to keep for 10 - 14 years, that comes from a breeder you respect, out of a litter you think will be quality, that's too much to ask? 

Why not consider it not more for a full registration, but a bonus for buying limited and agreeing not to breed your dog. 

I think of limited registration as not having to do with the potential owners at all. It has to do with the dog. If the pup has a retained testicle or is a coat or an off color, or has some other fault, then it should be sold on a limited registration and not bred. And if it is done for that reason, then an 800 dollar difference between a potential show-quality puppy and a dog with no potential in that area makes sense. 

For people who just want you to slash the price because they don't want to show or breed, but still want a dog with full show potential, that makes no sense at all. It costs just as much to produce a puppy with limited registration as it does with full registration, and if the next guy does want to show and is willing to pay $2k why would anyone want to sell the pup for $1200 to someone who is not going to get the pup and the breeder's name out there in the show circles? No sense at all. 

If all pups are the same price, but selected people can get a full registration, because they promise to show the dog, and the breeder trusts that they will be responsible about showing and breeding, then I see no reason why the breeder would charge more. The only reason a breeder might charge more is if they have a potential superstar in the litter that they want out there showing, and will do so themselves, but if the right people come along, they might let it go to those people, because they know those people have all their ducks in a row in the show world.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Bella67 said:


> Well the breeder I'm getting the puppy from is Schlossflesen Kennels, Berlin/Hudson litter and I get 2nd pick. So I think the puppy would have good quality possibly?


Neither sire nor dam have show ratings and don't ever seem to have been shown in the SV conformation venue. 

If you are interested in showing your dog, why pick a kennel that doesn't show with its breeding stock?


----------



## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Bella67 said:


> Well the breeder I'm getting the puppy from is Schlossflesen Kennels, Berlin/Hudson litter and I get 2nd pick. So I think the puppy would have good quality possibly?


Depends on which one you pick.....but yes, for second pick out of a reasonable sized litter with quality attributes...it seems fair enough.

Here's the problem I would have. I accept the fact that I wouldn't know a good pup from a "bad" pup..so I have tended to allow the breeder to select for me. If I had first pick of a litter, most likely I'd pick the wrong one maybe. I also have seen on a few occasions where the breeder allowed certain pups to be sold off as companion dogs and once they matured, wished they would have kept the pup for their own purposes. One breeder this has happened to, is a very noted producer of a particular breed. I'm betting it's not the first time this has happened.

The dam has Zamp blood and both the sire and dam have Larus von Batu blood...and the sire also has Vegas du Haut Mansard lineage as well. All impressive dogs in the breeding you cited. However, neither the sire or dam are titled and on the dam's side that goes back another generation...I believe..as I am not that good at reading pedigrees. There has been many a debate in here whether a titled sire and dam are of significance....I don't know enough to have an opinion....maybe the experts can give some thoughts regarding this breeding.

I have a bias for coats ( had 3 so far ) ...so I think your choice in coat selection is top notch !!!

SuperG


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

qbchottu said:


> Neither sire nor dam have show ratings and don't ever seem to have been shown in the SV conformation venue.
> 
> If you are interested in showing your dog, why pick a kennel that doesn't show with its breeding stock?


I've seen people from her kennel show some of her puppies, and gotten awards without showing the parents. It is GSL, so I don't think it is required the parents to be shown? I mean, I highly doubt every single show dog's parents have been shown, it runs in the genes correct?


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Every single show dog that consistently places highly in the ring and is highly rated in the conformation venue has parents that have been shown and titled. No two ways around this - quality parents proven in their chosen venues produce quality progeny with aptitude towards these venues. 

Depends - do you want to place well and be competitive or are you doing it for fun regardless of placing?

If you want to be competitive, you should look for progeny out of dogs that do well and place high in the show ring - meaning parents need to be shown and presented then bred together with a focused goal of producing quality progeny for the show ring. 

If I wanted a dog to herd sheep, I would look for progeny out of dogs that are titled in herding or work daily as herding dogs. It wouldn't make sense for me to get a pup out of dogs that *could* do well because there are some genetics back in the line that are good at herding. See what I mean? 

Dogs from this litter will likely not be very competitive in the show ring, but you can certainly show the pup and have fun with it. All depends on your goals.


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

qbchottu said:


> Every single show dog that consistently places highly in the ring and is highly rated in the conformation venue has parents that have been shown and titled. No two ways around this - quality parents proven in their chosen venues produce quality progeny with aptitude towards these venues.
> 
> Depends - do you want to place well and be competitive or are you doing it for fun regardless of placing?
> 
> ...


yeah I understand now.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

In the highest levels of SV German showline conformation shows, only dogs that have show rated, titled, and breed surveyed parents are allowed to go for the VA (excellent select) rating. 

So although it might be true that two parents that have never shown could produce a dog that does well in the ring, the likelihood is not as high as if you got a pup out of winning show dogs proven in the ring.


----------



## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

It seems to me that buying a pup from untitled parents is basically putting all of the trust in the breeder to evaluate the dogs. There are many reasons why someone may not be objective or critical enough to accurately assess their own dogs. 

But this is going to be a pet, right? Should be absolutely fine for doing dog sports and showing on a casual level. Would the breeder be willing to grant you full reg if you decide to show?

I don't believe in the price discrepancy, personally. No matter what the puppy looks like at eight weeks, there is always the chance that a weakness could appear later and end a dog's career. There is no objective way to guarantee show quality or working quality vs. pet.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bella67 said:


> Why do you think it'd be a waste of money? And no, he is German Show Lines.


It would be a waste of money *IF *you are *not *going to show in conformation or breed because those are the only two things that are limited. 

Limited Reg. can still compete in any sport. Agility, IPO, Rally, Obedience, Dock Diving, Flyball, tracking. Any sport.

But you have to have full registration to show in conformation. 

So what are your goals? If you want to show in conformation then get full registration. If not, save $800 and enjoy your dog in a sport.

Ash - do you need full registration for SV shows? For some reason I thought I just read you did not? And can show on limited?


----------



## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Kaimeju said:


> It seems to me that buying a pup from untitled parents is basically putting all of the trust in the breeder to evaluate the dogs. There are many reasons why someone may not be objective or critical enough to accurately assess their own dogs.
> 
> But this is going to be a pet, right? Should be absolutely fine for doing dog sports and showing on a casual level. Would the breeder be willing to grant you full reg if you decide to show?
> 
> I don't believe in the price discrepancy, personally. No matter what the puppy looks like at eight weeks, there is always the chance that a weakness could appear later and end a dog's career. There is no objective way to guarantee show quality or working quality vs. pet.


Yes he would be a pet, but I was considering doing show just for fun. Yes, she would grant me full if I decided I wanted to pay $2,000 for full + $475 for shipping the puppy which is a little high in my perspective.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bella67 - here is all the information you need to determine if you need full registration to show in SV shows.
United Schutzhund Clubs of America ? Show Forms


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Ash - do you need full registration for SV shows? For some reason I thought I just read you did not? And can show on limited?


You would need full for SV sanctioned shows I would think? Safest bet for SV/GSDCA/USCA shows would be to be on full. 

I honestly don't know if USCA allows limited reg dogs. Most of the time (except for maybe the Sieger Show or NASS), I haven't had to show AKC registration or pedigree for pups under a year old. They are little more lenient since they know not everyone wants to pay the 50-100$ on a young prospect that might wash out before a yea old. So I suppose you could sneak in a limited reg pup without anyone really knowing if it's a smaller show and pup is under one. 

After a year old, they are more strict about requiring akc reg with 4 gen pedigree and microchip or tattoo verified. Guess I never saw the point of showing dog not being used for breeding. Although some people were interested in possibly breeding their pup later on, I sold every pup on limited reg with possibility of removing later if they fulfill my criteria. I did sell Jen Rainey of Haus Huro a sable female on full because she is a fellow breeder and active in the show venues - Aphrodite already has her VP and CGC before 5m so I know I made the right call there. 

Just never was faced with showing a limited dog - I never saw the point as it's a lot of effort if you want to do it right


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Oh and people are usually more lenient with pet and "for fun" type entries in conformation shows. Whereas they might be by the book and more critical of a serious competitor wishing to breed later, judges and show people are usually quite helpful with first timers and pet type people. Best bet would be to email a club in your area that holds a yearly conformation show and email trial secretary to ask about it.


----------



## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Clubs in your area: 
United Schutzhund Clubs of America ? Region/Events

Blackstar K-9 Club of N.E. Michigan
Claudia Struble
Hale, MI
(989) 312-1160

Capital Area Schutzhund Club
Amy Morris
Leslie, MI
(517) 589-5919

Both nice ladies and should be able to help


----------



## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

selzer said:


> Why is it that it can be all about the money from a buyer's perspective, but if a breeder charges more than the norm, or more than what a buyer wants to pay, or more for a full registration, well that is just wrong, wrong, wrong?
> 
> Look, $2,000 won't buy you alcohol for an average wedding reception, which is over and done with in a night. But for a dog you might want to show, that you want to keep for 10 - 14 years, that comes from a breeder you respect, out of a litter you think will be quality, that's too much to ask?
> 
> ...


I don't understand why so many people have a problem with breeders charging more for full than limited. When you buy a dog that has an option of full registration, you are getting a better quality dog, which should obviously be worth more. Not only that, but somebody who opts for full registration generally does to show or breed. A breeder is going to spend A LOT more time answering questions regarding these two subjects than those of someone that just wants a pet. If somebody just wants a pet there questions to the breeder can likely be answered in a simple text (i.e.: "what should I be feeding", "when to expect 1st heat" etc.) Those questions take little to no effort to answer. On the other hand somebody looking to show might have questions such as asking about the grooming requirements at a show and what not. Answering those questions can mean coming out to shows and actually putting on a demonstration for them. You really become a mentor of sorts, and that is a service that in my opinion is alone worth the price difference.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

This thread was an interesting read to me because I didn't realize some people had the choice.

My girl was sold on a limited registration, period. She was evaluated by her breeder and deemed not to be of show quality. If I'd wanted a pup with full registration, I would have had to place a deposit on a show puppy, not a companion puppy. I wouldn't have been presented with a particular puppy and given the choice.

So it is interesting to hear how other breeders do it!


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Mikki said:


> I don't understand why so many people have a problem with breeders charging more for full than limited. When you buy a dog that has an option of full registration, you are getting a better quality dog, which should obviously be worth more. Not only that, but somebody who opts for full registration generally does to show or breed. A breeder is going to spend A LOT more time answering questions regarding these two subjects than those of someone that just wants a pet. If somebody just wants a pet there questions to the breeder can likely be answered in a simple text (i.e.: "what should I be feeding", "when to expect 1st heat" etc.) Those questions take little to no effort to answer. On the other hand somebody looking to show might have questions such as asking about the grooming requirements at a show and what not. Answering those questions can mean coming out to shows and actually putting on a demonstration for them. You really become a mentor of sorts, and that is a service that in my opinion is alone worth the price difference.


Limited and full registration has nothing to do with the quality of the puppy...it should in theory, but the theory doesn’t hold when put into practice. It also doesn’t matter at all what kind of home you are and if you’re interested in X, Y, or Z. I’ll use your example of questions about “grooming for the AKC ring.” I can almost guarantee you that you wouldn’t get the top show prospect in a litter from a breeder who is serious about showing dogs and getting championships. If you don’t know those answers, and haven’t had years of experience already in the show ring, the likelihood that a breeder will trust you with their “prized puppy” is very slim. Especially when you’re asking such novice questions that clearly show your lack of knowledge about the venue you want to pursue.
I don’t like the “added cost of full” registration. I do like the “you get the puppy on limited, if you title/the puppy shows promise after a year or two and passes its health clearances, you get full.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

martemchik said:


> *Limited and full registration has nothing to do with the quality of the puppy...it should in theory, but the theory doesn’t hold when put into practice.* It also doesn’t matter at all what kind of home you are and if you’re interested in X, Y, or Z. I’ll use your example of questions about “grooming for the AKC ring.” I can almost guarantee you that you wouldn’t get the top show prospect in a litter from a breeder who is serious about showing dogs and getting championships. If you don’t know those answers, and haven’t had years of experience already in the show ring, the likelihood that a breeder will trust you with their “prized puppy” is very slim. Especially when you’re asking such novice questions that clearly show your lack of knowledge about the venue you want to pursue.
> I don’t like the “added cost of full” registration. I do like the “you get the puppy on limited, if you title/the puppy shows promise after a year or two and passes its health clearances, you get full.


I'm really learning how limited my exposure is! The bolded was absolutely true in my experience. The full vs limited registration question was directly tied to whether the puppy was show quality. I made the decision upfront that I wanted a companion quality puppy sold on a limited registration, and my deposit was designated as such. I thought that was normal! So yeah, I am green. 

I'd agree with you on the second part, though: I wouldn't expect as a novice to get the top show quality puppy, even if I was serious as a potential show home. Before I would hope to be able to buy any show quality puppy, I'd expect to have to put in my time attending shows and getting to know people (and learning who the dogs are), take conformation/handling classes with my companion dog, and train and title my companion dog as best I could so I could demonstrate that I would be capable of helping a show dog reach its full potential as well...among other things I probably haven't thought of.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Martemchick's experience is that one does not have anything to do with the other. 

Really, putting a dog with a solid handler who has a 99% chance they will show the puppy, is probably something most breeders would be happy to do without any extra charge. Because if that person is known in the show world then they will show or will not show the dog depending on the puppy's quality. And the chances are good that the breeder, whose name is listed in every catalog where his dog is shown, is getting excellent exposure. 

People looking to maybe show should buy the best puppy they can and expect to pay full price or even more for full registration. The breeder is taking a huge chance on you if that puppy truly has potential. Not showing the pup means the breeder does not get any exposure, nor points. So the pup's dam and sire do not get points toward ROM, and etc. If you do not choose to show, but want the same quality pup, then pay for it if you can. The top prospects have top show people waiting for them, generally.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

In my experience, with the breeders I spoke to and the one I bought from, the breeders match up the puppy with the needs of the person. I wanted a sport dog. Someone else wanted a SAR dog. Who do you think got the best hunt drive? Yeah, the one most likely to find a lost child. I'm inexperienced with sport. The other person wanting a sport male was a top level competitor. I got second choice. My puppy was less suspicious and less sharp than the other one. for my experience level, he was the better dog for me. All puppies were the same price. All same selling conditions.

Not getting the best "show" prospect doesn't mean you didn't get the best puppy for your needs. The quality of the puppy is not less or more. It's just different strengths and weaknesses. I think this price scaling thing is more relative to show lines than working lines and I'm sure people more experienced in high level showing than anyone here would attest to the fact they've sold a puppy who turned out to be better than they expected.

And as my breeder said watching my dog at about 9 months, "you just never know"


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

As far as I know you cannot do a breed survey with limited. I only have that in my mind from another thread somewhere else where people were discussing working line dogs having limited registration lifted after titling hand OFAs/a-stamps. Since SV type events are so few and far between in the US, many people combine titles/ratings and do stuff like an AD, a show rating, and a breed survey in one weekend event. I know people who've done a SchH title and a breed survey in one weekend. If you are trying to do that and your dog has limited registration, you can't. The breeder would need to change it before the title so you can do both at the same event.

I get my dogs with full registration but have never had to pay more for it and think it's weird when there is a $500+ different in papers. The papers themselves do not cost $500 more for full registration. One of my dogs has been shown and has a breed survey. The other is now neutered but did a VP rating and I planned to do UKC conformation until one of his adult teeth got messed up.


----------



## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

selzer said:


> Martemchick's experience is that one does not have anything to do with the other.


Ah, right. I understand my experience is somewhat limited so I was curious about what he specifically meant by that. It was definitely my experience that I would not be sold a pup on full registration unless I was committed to showing and finishing the pup. Just hypothetically, of course.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Mikki said:


> I don't understand why so many people have a problem with breeders charging more for full than limited. When you buy a dog that has an option of full registration, you are getting a better quality dog, which should obviously be worth more.


Not necessarily. In this case it's the exact same puppy, whether she opts to pay more for full registration, or less for limited registration. While I don't have a problem with a breeder charging _a little more _for a show quality/breeding quality dog vs a pet quality dog, (like a couple hundred, not thousands, like the tier pricing that some breeders have) but that's not what we're talking about here. The dog either is or is not show/breeding quality, regardless of how much the buyer ends up paying and what kind of registration they choose.


----------



## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

martemchik said:


> Limited and full registration has nothing to do with the quality of the puppy...it should in theory, but the theory doesn’t hold when put into practice. It also doesn’t matter at all what kind of home you are and if you’re interested in X, Y, or Z. I’ll use your example of questions about “grooming for the AKC ring.” I can almost guarantee you that you wouldn’t get the top show prospect in a litter from a breeder who is serious about showing dogs and getting championships. If you don’t know those answers, and haven’t had years of experience already in the show ring, the likelihood that a breeder will trust you with their “prized puppy” is very slim. Especially when you’re asking such novice questions that clearly show your lack of knowledge about the venue you want to pursue.
> I don’t like the “added cost of full” registration. I do like the “you get the puppy on limited, if you title/the puppy shows promise after a year or two and passes its health clearances, you get full.


I agree, as a novice you wouldn't get the breeders "prized puppy". You could certainly end up with a show potential pup though. Everybody has to start somewhere. Breeders sell on co ownerships/take chances with new people quite frequently. At least the ones in my area do, can't speak for everywhere.

edited to add: When I say it happens quite frequently I mean that breeders will take chances but often you will have to "prove" your interest. You'd probably have a tough time finding a reputable breeder that will sell you a show potential pup if they've never heard of you. If you show up at shows, start networking, offering to hold dogs, maybe ask to go to a breed handling class with one of their adult dogs etc. Anything like that to prove interest would give yourself a much better opportunity of ending up with one of these pups.


----------



## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

martemchik said:


> I can almost guarantee you that you wouldn’t get the top show prospect in a litter from a breeder who is serious about showing dogs and getting championships. If you don’t know those answers, and haven’t had years of experience already in the show ring, the likelihood that a breeder will trust you with their “prized puppy” is very slim.


NOT TRUE.

Why were *both* of my bitches the top show picks of each of their litters?

When I went to look at Carly's litter, I had no intention of showing. I had lost my 14 year old Doberman and wanted another big dog. This GSD breeder is an old family friend of my best friend, and knew me casually. When it came time to divvy up the puppies, she told me that they wanted me to have the pick and to show her. I wanted that puppy SO bad. I knew the second I saw her that she was the pick puppy. I said yes. I finished her, and she has points towards her grand. Even though she has a litter sister that has her grand championship and has group placements, she still says that Carly is the best of the litter.

Same thing with Sage. All the shepherd friends came over to evaluate the litter, and the little dark faced girl is everyone's pick, and next thing I know I'm asked if I would take her and show her. That was Sage. 

A couple of years ago I was offered a REALLY nice male puppy to show. All sorts of health issues were going on with the breeder and she wasn't going to be able to show him, and she offered him to me. FREE. She just wanted him shown. I wasn't in a position to take him, so I had to decline. Nice nice puppy.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

selzer said:


> Martemchick's experience is that one does not have anything to do with the other.


And you know what about my experience? Last I checked...I've been in the breed ring much more recently than you have. I mean, I see all those show ratings in front of your breeding dog's names...


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Mikki said:


> I agree, as a novice you wouldn't get the breeders "prized puppy". You could certainly end up with a show potential pup though. Everybody has to start somewhere. Breeders sell on co ownerships/take chances with new people quite frequently. At least the ones in my area do, can't speak for everywhere.


A co-ownership is different...the other owner can almost "force" the other person to do something. You're basically going into the agreement with the intent to show and the breeder knows that if anything they can take the dog and show it as well.

The truth is, showing a dog, and getting a championship is a huge commitment and undertaking. Depending on your life situation, a breeder knows if its something you're capable of or not. So sure...they can take the risk on some people. But many times, the breeders I've known...they've known the people they give their best puppies to for quite some time. I've never seen them sell their best puppy to a first time dog owner that comes to them saying they want to do dog shows. Many times, it is someone that has had a dog, has hung around the shows, understands how they work...and at least in my area...has the funds to pay a professional handler.

All the dog sports are basically the same...people always tell you that they want to do it and then they realize what kind of time/money commitment it is. There are a lot of circumstances that lead a breeder to believe one person will be more dedicated than another, so of course each situation is different. But in general...those that have shown interest before, or have done it before, are the ones that are more likely to go through with actually doing the sport.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

martemchik said:


> *Limited and full registration has nothing to do with the quality of the puppy...it should in theory, but the theory doesn’t hold when put into practice.* It also doesn’t matter at all what kind of home you are and if you’re interested in X, Y, or Z. I’ll use your example of questions about “grooming for the AKC ring.” I can almost guarantee you that you wouldn’t get the top show prospect in a litter from a breeder who is serious about showing dogs and getting championships. If you don’t know those answers, and haven’t had years of experience already in the show ring, the likelihood that a breeder will trust you with their “prized puppy” is very slim. Especially when you’re asking such novice questions that clearly show your lack of knowledge about the venue you want to pursue.
> I don’t like the “added cost of full” registration. I do like the “you get the puppy on limited, if you title/the puppy shows promise after a year or two and passes its health clearances, you get full.





martemchik said:


> A*nd you know what about my experience?* Last I checked...I've been in the breed ring much more recently than you have. I mean, I see all those show ratings in front of your breeding dog's names...


I think you need to get over yourself. It is your experience by what you just posted in this thread, not necessarily what the whole of the show-community does. And your little digs really don't matter to me. Last I checked, it wasn't in any of my personal goals to get Martemchik to approve of me.


----------



## Mikki (Aug 17, 2014)

martemchik said:


> A co-ownership is different...the other owner can almost "force" the other person to do something. You're basically going into the agreement with the intent to show and the breeder knows that if anything they can take the dog and show it as well.
> 
> The truth is, showing a dog, and getting a championship is a huge commitment and undertaking. Depending on your life situation, a breeder knows if its something you're capable of or not. So sure...they can take the risk on some people. But many times, the breeders I've known...they've known the people they give their best puppies to for quite some time. I've never seen them sell their best puppy to a first time dog owner that comes to them saying they want to do dog shows. Many times, it is someone that has had a dog, has hung around the shows, understands how they work...and at least in my area...has the funds to pay a professional handler.
> 
> All the dog sports are basically the same...people always tell you that they want to do it and then they realize what kind of time/money commitment it is. There are a lot of circumstances that lead a breeder to believe one person will be more dedicated than another, so of course each situation is different. But in general...those that have shown interest before, or have done it before, are the ones that are more likely to go through with actually doing the sport.


I agree that's why I had edited my post to add that a new person who shows genuine interest in learning is going to have a much better chance at getting the opportunity to purchase a show potential puppy.


----------

