# Building Ball Drive



## 5shot (Oct 11, 2011)

I am a new GSD owner, and I am wondering: 

If you build ball drive in a new puppy will you create a monster in the house? Do they turn it on and off just by sight/or lack of the ball?

I am more interested in training him for obedience (not for any formal trials or anything), and the ball/toy reward seems like the way to go. 

I want this pup to grow up being grounded and relaxed, and I don't want to head down this road and regret it later. We want an obedient, mellow pet, and not some high strung, Tazmanian Devil.

Thanks


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

From my experience this really isn't something you can build. A dog either has prey drive (the want to chase a ball) or not. Most will have some sort of want but its not something you can take and train into them, especially if you want to use it as a reward. If your dog doesn't want to retrieve the ball it will never be a reward to him, you will be able to get him to retrive by offering a reward.

How old is your pup? Most don't develop a drive until they are about 6-7 months old. If you know what the parents were like you will be able to tell the kind of drive your pup might have. They never turn into tazmanian devils, but there are some that will do anything for a tennis ball. My dog will go to the end of the world for a tennis ball, but is able to turn it off once in a while.


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

You can start obedience by using food rewards. And as for ball driving making your dog crazy in the house, you can have house rules, i.e., no rough housing inside. My dog has crazy toy drive and we did let him play in the house when he was a puppy. As he got bigger and older, he was taught that play was limited in the house and the outside was the play area.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

My girl has crazy ball drive when the ball is in the presence of other dogs or if you are throwing it in the park.

I sometimes hold it in my hand while walking her when I want to get her attention away from distractions, I am using it as a reward instead of food in that instance. I will make it look like fun in my hand and then give it to her, but she will drop it after awhile when walking because there is no competition for it.

I guess what I am trying to say is that in the house, my dog does not go ball crazy because I never throw it in the house and no one is withholding it from her in the house. It is there and that is it.


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## 5shot (Oct 11, 2011)

martemchik said:


> From my experience this really isn't something you can build. A dog either has prey drive (the want to chase a ball) or not. Most will have some sort of want but its not something you can take and train into them, especially if you want to use it as a reward. If your dog doesn't want to retrieve the ball it will never be a reward to him, you will be able to get him to retrive by offering a reward.
> 
> How old is your pup? Most don't develop a drive until they are about 6-7 months old. If you know what the parents were like you will be able to tell the kind of drive your pup might have. They never turn into tazmanian devils, but there are some that will do anything for a tennis ball. My dog will go to the end of the world for a tennis ball, but is able to turn it off once in a while.


I asked the question based on reading this article -

Playing with Prey Drive: The Key to Attitude and Enthusiasm in Performance Dogs - The Dog Athlete

If the dog can learn that it is only appropriate outside, then all should be good.

The pup is still at the breeder's right now, and I am just doing my "research" so that I get started on the right track. This is our first dog in about 10 years, and back then, prior to the far reaching Internet, we were more of the disciplinarian school, but I am going to do it differently this time.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Having good working drives doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a Tazmanian Devil in the house. Halo is a drivey little thing (she SCREAMS to get going at scentwork and flyball class when she's being restrained), but she's not at all hyper at home. I have spent a lot of time reinforcing calm behavior, and doing impulse control exercises from the time she was a young puppy - mat work is great for this. She knows, for example, that the way to make me let her get a toy is to lay down and look at me. When I work with her and a flirt pole I'll make her down on her mat while I tease her with the toy, then I'll release her to get up and play. I'll have her out the toy and then give it back a time or two, then send her back to the mat again. Calm behavior and attention are what makes the fun happen.


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## 5shot (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks Debbie


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Where are you getting your puppy from? 

I like to use both food and toy rewards. I used to use pretty much all food, although we'd put some structure and rules to playtime too, but Halo is my first working line GSD and I've learned how to use toys more. I wish I'd started sooner, like you're going to do! I really didn't know what to do with her drives when she was younger. 

As a general rule, no matter what you're training for, food is good for calm, slowing down, and thinking. Toys are good for building drive, enthusiasm and speed. (Great article by Denise Fenzi, she's awesome!) In agility, for example, if the dog is doing everything correctly but is too slow, working for a tug reward would be the way to go. If the dog is bombing through the course at high speed but blowing off contacts or missing obstacles, food might be better to get more control. Food is also easier to use whenever you want to get a lot of repetitions in. Feeding a tiny treat takes a lot less time than throwing a ball and waiting for the dog to bring it back, or whipping out a tug and playing for a few seconds or more.

But whatever you use as a reward, motivational, reward based marker training is going to be your best bet, especially when he's young. Marking and rewarding behavior that you like, such as attention on you, will build a great foundation for when you start actually training specific commands.


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## 5shot (Oct 11, 2011)

He's coming from Majestic Kennels, and both the sire and dam are from Ca-Ji Shepherds.

He is going to be a family pet, first and foremost, but I want to keep him active physically and mentally. 

I work from my home shop, so we will be bonding 24/7.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Question: Do you build ball drive or are they born with it, and either they have it or they don't? My GSD has had crazy ball drive since he was a puppy-no teaching necessary. My lab-hardly any ball drive at all. I thought prey drive was genetic.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Question: Do you build ball drive or are they born with it, and either they have it or they don't? My GSD has had crazy ball drive since he was a puppy-no teaching necessary. My lab-hardly any ball drive at all. I thought prey drive was genetic.


FWIW.... when I picked up my pup, one of the things the breeder mentioned, was her very high ball drive. I don't really know how to interpret that at the time.
SInce having her about a month, I see that the ball drive, easily translates over to "learning" drive.
She's just as driven to chase a treat, or follow my lead, as she is to chase a ball on a string.

I have this little ball thingy on a rope, and I make it my business to entice her with it every day. Try covering a ball with peanut butter or something, and attaching it to a tethered rope. Prey is food. Your pup should chase it aggressively.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Someone at a park told me once that their GSD stopped being interested in food and more interested in balls around eight months.
Alice did exactly that a bit earlier.
She's ball crazy. I use one on walks as a focus tool. 
As far as being a Tasmanian Devil, well sometimes that's just amusing. She will make up her own rules if we aren't playing with her. What I mean is after teaching her "wait" after throwing away plates of food when a ball lands on your dinner plate or in your coffee cup (yeah, I should take her to the carnival)
She's learned to wait. I'm not ready to play right now. When I'm ready I'll play.
She will toss her ball around, and find it...bounce it off the door and play catch, and she used to throw it at the cats and bark at them for not picking it up and playing. 

I enjoy it personally. But then again, she's four years old now and has slowed down a bit. It definitely makes her highly trainable and it's a cheap "currency"


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## Rocky's mum (Apr 12, 2012)

This is a really interesting topic. I'm really trying to find that Prize toy that he values higher than food. He likes a lot of toys, ball included, but all with limited interest. He will bring a ball back once, maybe twice for reward, but loses interest quite quickly and just homes in on the traet pouch

Nothing gets his focus like some chicken.

Does anyone out there have a dog that didn't show much interest in balls, but now they are older have developed it a bit more? 

Rocky is 5 months, so I'm just interested to see if he might change as he grows up a bit. I'd like to use the ball on a string as focus for OB rather than belt feeding him chicken and hot-dogs:wub:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

My understanding about ball drive is that drives are genetic and intrinsic and you can't get more out of them than is hard wired, but you can build the drive to bring it out (kind of like learning in school )

I still think two ball is a great way to enhance the drive as it is very motivational for the dog. you can google "two ball" no point reinventing the wheel explainng it. Two ball does not help with control though and that is also something to work on.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

One thing is that when they are teething those balls in a string may be a bit hard for their tender mouth and something like the planet dog diamond plate ball is softer (it is easy to put a string on as well as the holes are two different sizes and the knot will go trhough the big hole. I actually like ball beter anyway because it floats too.


With a wee puppy the best way to start the ball game is in a carpeted hallway because when they are young there are so many distractions, but as soon as they got the idea I took it outside. I am not God's gift to obedience training but I have always had my pups retrieving well by 3-4 months max and loving to play the game all their lives.

I gather with a dog your reward should be what is most motivating to the dog. I often use food for obedience because it helps calm and focus but as he has learned more control use a toy but then he has very high toy drive (and I have the various wounds to show it)


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Looks like you are getting a WGSL puppy - all puppies are energetic and have "zoomy" moments! I think you will get a nice family dog and genetically, do not have a big risk of a "Tasmanian devil" 

Lee


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

Rocky's mum said:


> This is a really interesting topic. I'm really trying to find that Prize toy that he values higher than food. He likes a lot of toys, ball included, but all with limited interest. He will bring a ball back once, maybe twice for reward, but loses interest quite quickly and just homes in on the traet pouch
> 
> Nothing gets his focus like some chicken.
> 
> ...



Storm is 12 Weeks old today and she chases after a tennis ball but doesn't carry it in her mouth. I don't think she likes the fuzzy texture and the size of the ball is still allittle too big for her. I will try another ball because I would love to move away from treats at this point and reward with play.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Ishmail said:


> I will try another ball because* I would love to move away from treats at this point and reward with play*.


12 weeks old is awfully early to move away from food rewards, IMO. You can certainly use both food AND toy rewards, why don't you do both? Planet dog balls are great - they come in several sizes, and nice and chewy, and you can tug with it it you buy the one on a rope or tie some rope on it yourself. All of them come with a hole through the middle.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am still rewarding Beau at 11 months with food or toy, depending on what I want. He retireved like a demon at 3 months on, would hunt tirelessly for a ball tossed in the weeds, would tug. But I really did not find the toy reward as useful until after 7-8 months for him. Though looking at the videos of you and your pup (Ishmail) you are doing a TON right.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

You can build drive in dogs. Sometimes dogs have drive in them but it hasn't been brought out and it's sleeping underneath the surface. A good trainer can see the difference with dogs that just don't have it, and dogs that have it but it hasn't been brought out yet. 

Also, dogs with no drive can be built up to a certain point but those are the "made" dogs. Dogs with no food drive for example. Just don't feed them for a couple of days and you'll see, they WILL be hungry and work for the food.


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

Mrs.K said:


> Just don't feed them for a couple of days and you'll see, they WILL be hungry and work for the food.


my dog has NO FOOD DRIVE, and i just can't stomach not feeding him for 1 day...however, he's got an intense ball drive. he'll do anything for the ball.

we went to the beach and he would never go near the water no matter what, but i had him sit/stay and then reward him with the ball and toss the ball into the ocean and he went for it.

when we first got him, he wouldnt go in the stairs and go up the house, toss the ball up and he'll climb the stairs like a champ. however, the problem was going down (LOL) so toss the ball again and he looks like he's riding a sled going down.( we only did this once)

he doesnt know how to get in the back of the SUV, i tried luring him with food to no effect, he'll just sit there and stare at you. i got the ball and throw it at the back and he jumped into the suv like a champion agility dog.

i tried luring him with treats/food as my schutzhund trainer instructed but he would just get a treat then walk on his merry way. however, put a ball under your armpit and he'll heel like he got 100 at Schutzhund 3 OB trial!!!

my pup is 14weeks, he only knows sit, stay.


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

rshkr said:


> my dog has NO FOOD DRIVE, and i just can't stomach not feeding him for 1 day...however, he's got an intense ball drive. he'll do anything for the ball.
> 
> we went to the beach and he would never go near the water no matter what, but i had him sit/stay and then reward him with the ball and toss the ball into the ocean and he went for it.
> 
> ...



Sounds like he has an amazing amount of prey drive, my puppy is 12 Weeks old and I hope she starts displaying similar intetest for the ball. She loves playing tug and chasing a flirt pole but only goes after a really loud sqeaky ball, and that lasts for about 5 minutes. You can try splitting up his meals and that should give you the desired effect.


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I am still rewarding Beau at 11 months with food or toy, depending on what I want. He retireved like a demon at 3 months on, would hunt tirelessly for a ball tossed in the weeds, would tug. But I really did not find the toy reward as useful until after 7-8 months for him. Though looking at the videos of you and your pup (Ishmail) you are doing a TON right.


I love the video of Beau playing fetch, I watched it like 10 times lol. I really hope storm grows up as eager to fetch as he is, man he is all smiles that dog  He looks so awesome too, handsome boy.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

5shot said:


> I am a new GSD owner, and I am wondering:
> 
> If you build ball drive in a new puppy will you create a monster in the house? Do they turn it on and off just by sight/or lack of the ball?


My boy Mauser is a ball PSYCHO!! 

That being said we don't allow balls inside the house. On the rare occasion that he manages to sneak one in past me when coming in from outside we take it away as soon as we realize it's there.

Of course, if he wouldn't LEAP up on the couch with the ball, lay down, drop the ball off the couch then LEAP off to grab it and start all over we probably wouldn't notice that he HAD a ball.


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> 12 weeks old is awfully early to move away from food rewards, IMO. You can certainly use both food AND toy rewards, why don't you do both? Planet dog balls are great - they come in several sizes, and nice and chewy, and you can tug with it it you buy the one on a rope or tie some rope on it yourself. All of them come with a hole through the middle.



Your right. I really just want to play fetch with her. I love how excited they get over a ball being thrown, they are so focused and fun to watch. Storm is my cousins dog, I am raising and training her for another month or so. She has been a pleasure to train and has incredible food drive. My cousin has limited experience training dogs and I think a ball driven dog will be more fun to train and help him continue the training process. I will look into the Planet dog balls, that sounds like a great idea.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ishmail said:


> I love the video of Beau playing fetch, I watched it like 10 times lol. I really hope storm grows up as eager to fetch as he is, man he is all smiles that dog  He looks so awesome too, handsome boy.


I have been lucky that they have all loved ball. I do think the two ball game really set the stage for us because we were doing that in the hallway when he was a small puppy - did with my other dogs, too - since I learned it about 1997 when I got Toby. Linus (1985) would fetch too though he was not quite as much a fiend about it and our ESS after Linus was a natural retriever and did not have to be taught the part about returning it nicely.

They all HAD the prey drive it was just the part about bringing it back I had to teach. At that age though we still kept it very short - a few throws and always left him wanting more. I will say Beau is more of a natural retrieer than the others though.

He is a happy happy dog happy dog but I was nowhere NEAR where you are with your puppy at that age. You are blowing my mind.


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> One thing is that when they are teething those balls in a string may be a bit hard for their tender mouth and something like the planet dog diamond plate ball is softer (it is easy to put a string on as well as the holes are two different sizes and the knot will go trhough the big hole. I actually like ball beter anyway because it floats too. /QUOTE]
> 
> I've been looking at planet ball and they have great reviews on Amazon. I do plan on getting the diamond plate orbee but can't decide on the color. Do you have the orange or chrome one because I know they can see some colors much better than others.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I like the orange because I can see it. Orange is pretty invisible to dogs on a green background from what I understand. But they use their nose to locate, not their eyes.

I am really liking this ball! The one with the planets I hate and I told them so. They come off way to easy and are a choking hazard JMO. I wound up peeling off all the planets before I gave it back to my dogs.


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> I like the orange because I can see it. Orange is pretty invisible to dogs on a green background from what I understand. But they use their nose to locate, not their eyes.
> 
> I am really liking this ball! The one with the planets I hate and I told them so. They come off way to easy and are a choking hazard JMO. I wound up peeling off all the planets before I gave it back to my dogs.



Just ordered the orange ball and I think she will love it. Thanks for the help! It only comes in one size so hopefully it isn't too big for her.


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## jimj (May 30, 2012)

We use Kong balls on our 12 week old, they're orange,come in different sizes and squeak. 
She loves to fetch, especially with this rubber ring that looks like a small inner tube and squeaks. 
Since we can't walk her during the day due to sidewalk temps being too high we play fetch in our yard on grass until she's tired/hot.


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## Ishmail (Jul 17, 2011)

Nancy and everyone thanks for the help. Storm started fetching for the first time a couple days ago and I was jumping up and down lol. She loves the diamond orbee ball. is going to start making training more fun very soon  I also have to put up an updated video of her training because she is at another level now


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