# He escaped from his chain link kennel!!!!



## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

So today like most days we locked our 9.5month old male GSD in his 5'X15' outdoor chain link kennel (which has a 5' x4' covered dog house inside for shelter). When my boyfriend came home from work the dog was not in the kennel but had chewed/ripped a hole in the chain link and escaped and was sitting in the back yard at the back door!!!!!!!!! Thank goodness the kennel is in the back yard which is also enclosed!

First of all has anyone had this happen?! And second of all what do I use to fix this so he wont escape again?!


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I would crate him inside the house.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

You need a better kennel. I've heard that those petsafe and hardware store chain link kennels just don't do it with a larger, determined dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Stronger kennel?


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Seriously, he wanted out of the kennel and into the house. You live in Canada? 9.5 months old- still a puppy. Does he even have his full coat yet? He may be cold out there. Any way you could crate him indoors?


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

He used to stay inside until he was about 7 months and since then (unless it really cold) he stays outside in his Kennel. 

HAHA And yes I love in Canada but I live in Vancouver were it is 7 degrees Celsius (43 degrees Fahrenheit) today so it is not really that cold. We have only had snow (about 1/2" at that) once this winter which lasted about 12 hours. His dog house in his kennel is fully insulated and lined with carpet so he also has somewhere to go for shelter.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Well I would say he is used to living in the house and probably does not understand why he has to be outside now.


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## xenos56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Like most days? Did you word your post wrong by any chance? I want to be sure I am reading what you intended. 

Why is your dog kenneled outdoors? Do you leave him there while you go to work/how long is he left out there? 

Even if it were summer - your GSD belongs inside of your house not left outside. He is almost 10 months old and over the teething stage. Dogs like to be inside and near his family. You can get him an extra large crate to use indoors if he acts up and you need to go out for something, but other than that - you need to reconsider why you got him. (Sorry. I know I am more matter-of-fact than the other posters, but someone has to say something here.).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

With straw in a properly sized dog house -- not too big or they cannot maintain their body heat, a dog should be ok outside. 

I use nine gage wire. Many of the kennels use 13 gage wire and that is simply too flimsy. 

Also, now that he has managed to escape, he may try again and again. Covering the kennel over might make sense too with some type of fencing. I use 11 gage on top.

Anyhow, glad you had a second line of D-Fence. But do not count on it. Your dog is intelligent and bored. If he was not, he would not have torn through the kennel. He may be lonely as well. Having just one dog, means they are all alone back there and that will lead to destructive behavior. 

Crate the dog inside the house until you can fix the kennel. 

If you have a laundry room or a garage with a wall into the back yard, it may be nice to put an dog door through that to a kennel outside. Inside an x-pen -- that keeps the dog if muddy off the furniture and safe from house hold dangers. 

Anyhow. Crate and protect the dog until you can come up with a stronger kennel system. 

Good luck.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I agree with everyone who said he wants in the house. He doesn't know you aren't in there and may be wondering why his pack forgot him outside since he's spent most of his life inside.

Why did you recently decide to put him outside in a kennel? If you want to continue keeping him outside, build a stronger kennel.


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

vat said:


> Well I would say he is used to living in the house and probably does not understand why he has to be outside now.


That's very possible as he is always inside with us at night but he has been staying outside all day (except daycare day once a week) for almost 3 months now. Seems strange that just now he would be confused as to why he was outside no?


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## westallkennel (Feb 3, 2011)

Some shepherds can be too smart for their own good. I have a black shepherd that I just can't keep in a pen. I have tried everything, she chewed through top gage chain link jumped an 8 foot fence I put hot wire at the top even this did not stop her. Cheyenne now stays in the house. She loves her crate she even has a rope on the door she pulls it closed.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Also your pup may not even realize that your not home and does not understand why he can not be in with you.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

CPH said:


> That's very possible as he is always inside with us at night but he has been staying outside all day (except daycare day once a week) for almost 3 months now. Seems strange that just now he would be confused as to why he was outside no?


He probably just now figured out how to break out! He will be safer and more comfortable inside


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

He broke out because he was bored and found something to do with his teeth that alleviated the boredom. 

I do not think he hates to be outside, and he is looking to be inside. He heard you come home and into the house, and the door is where you will come next, so there is where he will go to greet you. 

He will be just as bored inside, with nobody there, and can get into just as much trouble. 

I think you need to protect him from himself. His teeth will get him into trouble. Spending 20 - 30 minutes morning and evening playing fetch or hide and seek will help to tire him out. 

And he can break his teeth on crates or kennels as well. So it is the boredom you really need to work on. He is an intelligent dog, you need to stimulate him mentally.


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the advice! Selzer, your post is incredibly insightful, I think you probably pegged the nail on the head, I run with him at night but i guess i need to start exercising him in the morning as well.The "kennel" we got him is a really more like a dog run its 5'X15' so its not like his contained in a tiny area outside. He didn't start staying outside right away as we wanted to wait until he was a little bigger and older before keeping him outside all day. We both work full time so during the day, except the days he goes to doggie day care, he stays home alone. He loves being outside and even when were are home we leave the door open for him and he often chooses to play outside in the yard.The kennel is a petsafe one and I am just now learning that apparently they are not the most durable for large breeds. 



xenos56 said:


> Like most days? Did you word your post wrong by any chance? I want to be sure I am reading what you intended.
> 
> Why is your dog kenneled outdoors? Do you leave him there while you go to work/how long is he left out there?
> 
> Even if it were summer - your GSD belongs inside of your house not left outside. He is almost 10 months old and over the teething stage. Dogs like to be inside and near his family. You can get him an extra large crate to use indoors if he acts up and you need to go out for something, but other than that - you need to reconsider why you got him. (Sorry. I know I am more matter-of-fact than the other posters, but someone has to say something here.).


And in response to the above post, I am all for being matter-of-fact and i completely agree with dogs wanting to be with their family. Besides work (which he actually occasionally does come into the office for the day) he comes absolutely everywhere with us and is basically treated as our child, but while we are at work he has to be left alone and there is no reason he can not be left outside. There are many people who leave their dogs outside and i do not believe that in anyway makes me need to reconsider why we got him.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Sorry I have to disagree. I don't understand why people get dogs and put them outside. I can think of several incidents I have read on these forums recently where a dog being left outside ended up in tragedy. 
If you love your dogs you share your home with them. This is my opinion


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

CPH said:


> And in response to the above post, I am all for being matter-of-fact and i completely agree with dogs wanting to be with their family. Besides work (which he actually occasionally does come into the office for the day) he comes absolutely everywhere with us and is basically treated as our child, but while we are at work he has to be left alone and there is no reason he can not be left outside. There are many people who leave their dogs outside and i do not believe that in anyway makes me need to reconsider why we got him.


I agree totally with this. 

There is NOTHING in your house that your dog NEEDS when you are not there. I think a five x fifteen foot kennel is MUCH more comfortable that a 2x4 foot crate. And NO, a ten month old puppy is NOT through the chewing stage. The chewing stage can last a LONG time. And it is downright DANGEROUS to leave a puppy loose in a house. Too many things that you would never even consider to be an issue, that can actually KILL him. 

For example, a venisian blind. Who would think that a dog would pull it down and EAT part of it. I was at a vet and some people brought in a puppy that did just that. It ripped up the intestines and the dog did not make it. 

AKC makes five foot wide by six foot high kennel panels that seem to be pretty strong. I have two of of them, the door panel and a regular panel cutting my puppy pen into two runs. I think Tractor Supply Co sells them. You can buy six panels, a gate panel and five regular panels for about $300 on sale. And additional panels are about 75$, so you can do the whole 5x15' area. And later you can make it bigger if you want. 

Hope the base is strong because if he cannot bite through the chain link he might start digging.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

My puppy did very well crated inside. Now as an adult he does not need to be crated at all. He is a perfect gentleman inside. He never chewed on his crate, although he wanted to chew on everything else when he was younger!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They are sharing the home with the dog. But when they are gone, they are allowing the dog to potty and move about freely in a kennel rather couped up in a crate.

I know there are people who think crates are the bomb. I use them for short periods of time, when the dog is sleeping or whatever. 

The fact is, most of us work away from home full time, and with traveling and occasional overtime, that may mean the dog is crated up to 12 hours a day. If he is crated for the night, as well, that is just too long. 

A kennel/dog run is a solution to this. And I find dogs do VERY well kenneled for full days. But I would not want to crate a dog for the same time frame. 

When people get home is when the dog should be with the people. When the people are not there, the inside of the house is no better than a safe kennel.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Are your dogs inside with you at night?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Of course they are.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Holy moly! All those dogs? It must be like a party every night! 
You kennel, I don't. We won't agree on that,eh?:toasting:


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## TitonsDad (Nov 9, 2009)

I'd like to see you say "It's not that cold" after you spend a few hours outside with bare minimum clothing, in a 5'x15' enclosed kennel and see if you say the same thing afterwards... 

Just saying.


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

well, I haven't used a dog run for my dogs but my Czech GSD breaks out of her crate almost every day lol she isn't getting out when she is crated at night, because she loves that. Nope, its when I crate her to feed her or for a time out. Just proves she stays there when "she wants to" not that I lock her up..grrr darn smart dog. 

I am a big believer that all dogs should be indoors, but I don't think leaving your dog in a secure dog run outside while you are at work each day is wrong at all. I leave mine inside because I want them to guard the house and I think it gives them better indoor manners to be left indoors all the time.
Although, right now we have 6 in of snow on the ground (12 degrees outside) and the dogs don't want to come inside at all. LOL 

Definitely exercise him in the AM and try to give him some challenging dog toys to keep him entertained. Use those toys for only when he is in the dog run. Best of luck!!!


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your insights, it is definitely not black and white raising a pup! Morning exercise, a stronger kennel and perhaps rotating his toys will hopefully help. I understand everyone will have different opinions on leaving their dogs outside just like some people allow their dogs on the furniture and some don't. That doesn't however make one right or one wrong. I agree with selzer that in or out he will have energy and I know he is safer outside than inside where there is tons to get into. And I personally don't want to leave him locked in a crate all day, at least outside he can run around and play as he pleases.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Of course you agree with Selzer. She told you what you want to hear! 
Why do you let him in at night and not during the day? 
Safer outside? Wow. That's new. It is winter time and he is still a puppy. 
Look- why do you think people are pointing this out to you? To fight? No. Last thing I want. Think about it.


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

I've never met people so freaking judgmental. You lock your dogs in a crate with just enough room to turn around. They can't go to the bathroom, they can't walk and stretch, they can't feel the wind and smell the outdoors. And he's the bad guy?

It's not dangerous if properly done so get over it.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

use heavier gauge wire. make sure your dog can't dig out
or climb out.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

rvadog said:


> I've never met people so freaking judgmental. You lock your dogs in a crate with just enough room to turn around. They can't go to the bathroom, they can't walk and stretch, they can't feel the wind and smell the outdoors. And he's the bad guy?
> 
> It's not dangerous if properly done so get over it.


I don't lock my dog in a crate at all. A crate was used as a safety tool while needed, and now it is no longer needed. 
Why do you have German Shepherds? I think you have been pretty judgmental and opinionated yourself on these forums. What's your concern here? How do you care for your dogs?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Did you just ask why somoene has a German Shepherd? You believe that a dog, that was originally bread to be an all around working dog and mainly used for SHEEP HERDING and protecting the herd, should be inside? Nice reasoning. Just because indoor dogs is your culture, and is a huge part of American culture where most people live in cities, it doesn't mean its the only way. There's plenty of dogs that live their lives outside in the United States and all over the world. They are true working dogs that probably prefer to be outside. If I had a back yard, I would defintately have a large kennel for my boy to stay in while I'm away, and I live in the midwest, where we just got 2 feet of snow, which by the way he loves and played in for over an hour without even the slightest shiver.

Look at your dog, does he look like he doesn't like being outside?


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

rvadog said:


> i've never met people so freaking judgmental. You lock your dogs in a crate with just enough room to turn around. They can't go to the bathroom, they can't walk and stretch, they can't feel the wind and smell the outdoors. And he's the bad guy?
> 
> It's not dangerous if properly done so get over it.


i agree whole heartedly here.these are once again dogs not hairless humans and have survived mighty well till now running around outdoors.
Now even as a human i myself would rather be outside in al large free roaming pen than being stuck in a tiny cube with barely enough room to turn for long periods while the owners were at work.
As for leaving a dog inside to his own devices no matter how well trained is asking for an accident.you cannot be 100% positive that one day you come home and the dog has not eaten something from under the sink,chewed up electrical cords that were still plugged in ect.
Is it worth the risk of having an electrocuted dog?


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Lol. He likes being outside sometimes, but literally minutes after being out there himself wants to come in. If we are out there he wants to be out there. I play fetch, walk, run with him and do agility with him. So do you do herding with your GSD?
I am talking to martemchik.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Well, the GSDs were not out by themselves - they were with their human co-workers. 

When I am outside, my dogs want to be outside. When I am inside, my dogs want to be inside. And when I am gone, they are in sleeping in their (good sized) crates where they won't get into things. When I come home, I know who has done what, everything is where I left it, and they are very relaxed.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

kris10 said:


> lol. He likes being outside sometimes, but literally minutes after being out there himself wants to come in. If we are out there he wants to be out there. I play fetch, walk, run with him and do agility with him. So do you do herding with your gsd?
> I am talking to martemchik.


yes,i breed dorper sheep and have 2 gsd's that work them.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I have had dogs my whole life and none have gotten into trouble living inside. I have known people personally whose dogs were stolen or poisoned outside.
Tierra nuestra I appreciate your experience, but not everyone has tons of property and an idyllic existence outside for their dogs. Most people have neighbors who don't want to hear bored dogs barking, and the neighbors have kids who want to stick their fingers through the fence.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

He's 6 months old and we're going to a farm next week to get him evaluated. It's definately something I'm interested in. Along with agility and tracking. But its not about what I do with my dog, its about you attacking people for not living with their dogs like you live with yours. And I'm in no way saying the way you live is wrong, my dog is an inside dog and is probably always going to be one. I just think its rediculous you think that any one with an outdoor dog isn't treating their dog as well as you treat yours. You've trained your dog to like being with you and inside, other dogs love being outside even if its without their owner, don't tell people their way of living is wrong just because its not like yours.


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## TechieDog (Jan 13, 2011)

I've always used outdoor kennels to keep my dogs safe and secure and give them room to stretch when I am not around, and they have always liked them. I can't imagine leaving them free in the house or locked in a crate if I have to be gone all day.

The comments on here made me think of this article, some of you may find it interesting: *House or Kennel* http://vangoghkennels.com/pb-htdocs/Adobe%20Files/house-kennel%20MA09.pdf


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

tierra nuestra said:


> yes,i breed dorper sheep and have 2 gsd's that work them.


Lol I knew you of all people did herding! I edited while you were posting I think


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Come on! One of the things we love about this breed is their bond with their people. I didn't train my boy to like being with me! I really don't think I am attacking here...


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

Kris10 said:


> I have had dogs my whole life and none have gotten into trouble living inside. I have known people personally whose dogs were stolen or poisoned outside.


 
The GSD my family had when I was a child, Smoky, was an outside dog. He was poisoned. There are many sick people who hate animals and want to harm them. Not to mention those that want to steal them. I will never have an "outside dog". My animals will always be inside.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

kris10 said:


> i have had dogs my whole life and none have gotten into trouble living inside. I have known people personally whose dogs were stolen or poisoned outside.
> Tierra nuestra i appreciate your experience, but not everyone has tons of property and an idyllic existence outside for their dogs. Most people have neighbors who don't want to hear bored dogs barking, and the neighbors have kids who want to stick their fingers through the fence.


ok,you say your dog is great indoors because of training.are you saying its not possible to train a dog that has an outside kennel to do the same?just because a dog has an outside kennel to lounge around in does not mean it's going to become some monster that looses all its manners and training.
Now to post that to have an outdoor kennel implys you have tons of property and has the perfect idylic setting is rather an ignoramous statement as well.any person with a small or even minute yard can have a nice set up for the dog or dogs that will allow he most curious cases to prod sticky finger through safely. A good lock on a kennel gate will deter the most persistent theives . If they really wanted to,they could just as easily break a window to get an indoor dog.
Question,do you have any house plants?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Some dogs do prefer to stay inside the house when you're gone. My dog Massie liked to be outside by herself when I was home. When I was gone I gave her the option of being inside or outside (dog door). I never once found her outside when I came home. I think some gsds are fine staying outside by themselves but many prefer to be inside when their people are not home. 

The only dog I had who liked to be outside when I was gone was my rottie mix, Chama. The shepherds all wanted to stay in the house, even when given the choice to stay outside.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Thank you for calling me an ignoramus, although you misspelled it Tierra nuestra. I was saying you personally have property. Perhaps before reacting you should re- read my posts so you understand them. 
And no I don't have house plants because my cats find them tasty. So don't bother listing all the dangers of indoor living for dogs.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

"If you love your dogs you share your home with them."

If you didn't mean it to sound like an attack, it definately came off as that. You're implying that if you leave your dog outside for any period of time you don't love them. I just thought that was a rediculous statement to make. Most people do share their home with their dog in some respect, but I've noticed that even my 6 month old puppy gets hot and starts panting when the apartment is around 75 degrees but when he is outside in sub-freezing temperature he could care less. He can roll around in the snow for hours and I can even cover him with it. And yes, there are plenty of horror stories about dogs outside getting into trouble, but there are just as many about dogs getting into trouble inside. Most people that keep dogs outside live where they don't have neighbors and its not a big deal. In my opinion a 10 month old dog is plenty old to be outside and while it might be a puppy mentally, it is no way a puppy physically and can easily handle being outdoors.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

kris10 said:


> thank you for calling me an ignoramus, although you misspelled it tierra nuestra. I was saying you personally have property. Perhaps before reacting you should re- read my posts so you understand them.
> And no i don't have house plants because my cats find them tasty. So don't bother listing all the dangers of indoor living for dogs.


i was refering to your statement not you as an individual.as for house plants,many people have them and do not give them a second thought as to what potential dangers they may pose for indoor pets.so may things in the house are toxic just as there may be dangerous encounters out side,yet both can be ideal places for dogs if proper care is given .
For you to make a judgemental call against people who choose to have a different situation than yours comes off as being narrow minded and blind to all but your own choices.there are many healthy enviroments for our dogs,to choose is your choice and right but does not make someone elses wrong or unethical just different.and being different is not always bad.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

So before I go to sleep I will say this: the op 's puppy has been outside since 6 months old. It's winter. In Canada. He chewed his way out of his kennel. Sounds ideal.
Good night


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

It sounds to me like your puppy was bored in his kennel and found something interesting to do - chewing his way out of it and exploring your yard. I honestly would be more worried about his teeth if he can chew his way out of a chain-link kennel than the fact that he's outside in 40 degrees with an insulated dog house. I'd be worried that he is breaking or otherwise damaging his teeth and gums, which tends to wind up being very expensive if you need to have dental work done.

Have you tried leaving him with something to do, like a Kong stuffed with goodies or some other indestructible toys to play with so that he is not bored in the kennel? Do you exercise him, body and brain, before he is being kenneled while you are away?

My dog stays in a 5ftx5ft kennel indoors when I am gone, which is more room than a crate and comfortable for her to hang out in. She has a bucket of water and usually one or two toys, plus some old blankets to lay on. (I will eventually get her a kuranda bed but they're expensive.) I use heavy rubber mats below the kennel, so if she really needed to go she could and I would be able to easily clean it up. (Hasn't happened yet except once when she had an upset tummy.)



> His dog house in his kennel is fully insulated and lined with carpet so he also has somewhere to go for shelter.


I would not use carpet in the dog house because it will easily get wet and muddy from snow / ice / slush / mud when your dog goes in and out in winter, and will most likely mildew and get all sorts of nasty. Straw may be a better option. Or you could put in a raised dog bed, like the Kuranda bed I am planning on getting for my dog.

As far as temperatures go, I think a grown German Shepherd should have no trouble staying out in 40 degree weather if his coat is allowed to grow out and is kept well groomed (since it won't be as protective and insulating if it's tangled or dirty). However, I would not leave a 9.5 months old outside for extended periods of time, even if it's 40 degrees (which is significantly warmer than it has been here) because he most likely is still growing his adult coat and does not have the same protection from the cold as an adult.

It's the same for people, really. The elderly and children are much more susceptible to the cold (or to the heat) than adults as a whole, so they have to be more careful. Same for dogs. Even if it's okay for an adult dog, I would not leave a pup out.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

There are plenty of dogs that live in kennels outdoors while their owners are gone safely. Remember eating drywall and choking on household objects is just as likely. My dogs live inside as a necessity because we are in the city with close neighbors, but when I hit the lottery and buy a few acres I's love to install heated kennels

Sounds like you need a stronger fence and a crate until you've made the repairs


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## KaiserGSDLove (Oct 21, 2010)

Here's a good article about dogs being left outside. Although this article pertains to the Michigan state law it is still useful for what kind of shelter a person should provide. 

Cold Temps Can Prove Fatal For Pets - Detroit Weather News Story - WDIV Detroit


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Kris10, I think that your statements about why people even want to own a shepherd can be considered attacking. We are talking about where the dog is when we are not home. I would only leave a very sedentary dog in a crate during the day time. I like dogs to be able to move around, to be able to choose where they want to lie, and to be able to relieve themselves if they need to.

Confining a dog to a crate is less humane in my opinion than providing a sizeable, secure kennel for the dog. Others feel differently about that. 

If you are home all day long and have only one dog, you can maybe trust the right puppy to have the run of the house. But I find that there are things you just cannot take back. Dogs are far more likely to be poisoned within a house, basement, or garage than by a disgruntled neighbor. It really only takes leaving a bottle of ibprofin on the counter, and that puppy that never chewed ANYTHING now has kidney failure. 

There is NOTHING in my house that my dogs NEED when I am not there. Their kennels are safe, within an enclosed yard, have houses and straw, have buckets of water, and are clean. Since there is more than one dog, my dogs are not all alone out there, and that eliminates some issues an only might have. 

It is amazing how people feel about cold. Some wear a parka at 55 degrees. Others of us, clean kennels, fill water buckets, move dogs out, and feed everbody in our pjs with temps in the twenties. I think that dogs can be conditioned for cold weather. 

I mean, if you keep the dog inside an AC/heated house 24/7, they will probably have trouble with weather extremes on either end. If you leave them out for a number of hours every day, year round, they grow the coat they need, and they put on the fat they need to keep them warm. If you provide them with a sunscreen and a properly sized house with bedding, and adjust food intake, they will feel comfortable in any weather.

Lastly, when Arwen was missing for 19 days, it was hitting 10 degrees below zero every day. Her last week on the lam, a family 40 miles away was feeding her, they shoved a cardboard box under the porch where the dog was taking refuge. I got her back and she was fine. 

And the husky bitch that gave birth next door to me in January, had four puppies, they NEVER took the bitch or pups inside. January in NE Ohio. They had an igloo dog house, no floor, and some straw on the mud base. All four pups survived. Well they survived for several months before being squished in the road by automobiles. 

Anyhow, WE feel cold and apply that to our dogs. I find that dogs tend to have more trouble dealing with the warmth of the house than they do with the cold. They seem to relish the cold.


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

I have actually heard straw is a better way to go, so its good to get that reconfirmed. We will definitely look into changing the carpet out and putting straw in. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

I was studying zoology when i was younger and ended up at the local zoo quite frequently during courses.we used many animals there as case studies and many projects were about developing and helping captive animals deal with boredom related issues(pacing,head nodding, ect)the students were encouraged to use their imaginations to come up with ideas to combat these cases.i was presented with the tiger pen.my design was a drag line that encouraged the tiger to exhibit stalking behaviour.its was simple and effective method of installing a drag line or pulley system that had a carcass attached by chains.the carcass was then towed along at a slow pace until the tigers attention peaked.then the person operating the pulley towed the carcass at a fast pace to incite a charge and attack from the tiger.you can easily create a pulley in the pen and attach rope(hemp) and tie things such as kongs stuffed with frozen peanut butter,bells, ect. That dangle down just enough that the pup can grab and draw it along the pulley.sounds stimulate in one way while food orientated stimulates another.it up to your imagination to create all sorts of things to attach to the pulley.for your pup it might be a good idea.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I think what you're doing is fine, you just need to reinforce the fence. 

From what I can tell, he's basically an inside dog (when you're home), but the kennel is being used pretty much as a giant crate for when you're gone.... Correct? I don't see a problem with that, other than the fact he needs to be secured in it, but that's obvious.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

My dogs are inside dogs, but if they want to go outside I am with them. There are too many idiots out there. My previous dogs were outside dogs, they came in when it was raining or something. I personally feel better when they are inside with me or when I am not home. My dogs were never crate trained(Tanner came to us when he was 1 1/2) and have never ruined a piece of furniture.

Even though I don't personally agree with leaving a 9.5 month old puppy outside, BUT I think you need a better kennel that is more secure.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Everyone is different, as is every dog. 

I crate trained Ozzy. He only ever chewed up toilet paper, and every now and then (when I forgot to close my mom's door when I leave), he'd get a hold of my mom's makeup. The crate saved the house, I'm sure. Potty training was an adventure. I KNOW without the crate, he probably would still be having accidents in the house. 

My mom refuses to use a crate with Aiden. He tears up the couch (he's on his fourth couch now), he marks all over the house, and he used to chew on the walls and everything else. He's gotten better (he's almost 3 now), but if we had crate trained him, I'm sure he would have been much, much better about chewing and marking. 

When we first found Sania, our lab, she tore up EVERYTHING. She was probably 2 when we found her. We even took her to a vet, THAT'S how bad she chewed. (And this was back when Mom thought crates were horrid torture devices, so she refused to use one). Vet asked if we had any toys for her. Nope.... Got her a ball - she hasn't chewed a thing since. 

Shelbye and Schatzi were never crated and never tore anything up, except for Schatzi will turn phone books into confetti. And the trash.... But other than those, the furniture, walls, tables, etc. were all safe from them. 

You can't use the same thing for every situation.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't see anything wrong with a dog being secured outside while the owner is not home. Don't think if you're home or at night the dog should be outside by himself, though. However, I'd consider you dog not being happy away from "his" house even when you are gone. Chewing out of an outdoor kennel is a lot of work and he was either very distressed or very bored. You might want to explore ways to keep him in the house while you are gone if he's going to be destructive while outside. Even if you make something strong enough that he can't get out of again, he might do serious damage to himself tyring.



tierra nuestra said:


> is rather an ignoramous statement as well.


Wow, aren't you always the one posting to be nice to people, hold hands, and sing around the campfire? Yet calling something someone said as "ignoramous." YIKES.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Do you have toys and things in there for him while you're gone? (Like kongs and such?)


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

He always has a few toys out there with him so he is never left with nothing to do. Someone suggested creating some sort of a pull system with toys which i think might work really well.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

CPH said:


> First of all has anyone had this happen?! And second of all what do I use to fix this so he wont escape again?!


If he actually chewed a hole through the wires, then you need a better grade wire. If he started at the location where the link meets the support pole (like at the bottom or corner) then you need to zip tie each link to the pole. You can't miss a single one. Once they get it started, it's easy to keep pulling and sort of unravel and bend the links. 

I also have a large dog run inside my back yard - we zip tied each link to the poles to prevent the dogs from pulling on and pulling through the fence. It kept even the roguest of dogs in (or out). 

I use this in my horses runs between their stalls as well. Although the chain link is affixed to actual wooden boards, we have to tack each link to the board to keep the horses from rubbing on, pulling on, chewing and and pretty much destroying the fence.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

lmfao, the OP lives in _vancouver_. That's like the Los Angeles of canada. I've got a friend who moved there in october from saskatchewan, and he's been wearing nothing but t-shirts outside all winter. Their winter average is only 4C(39.2F). I think the only dogs that would be too cold in that weather are hairless ones. 

I think you need to exercise the dog before putting it in the kennel, and also get a stronger one. I agree with selzer, there's nothing wrong with keeping your dog outdoors, especially when you aren't even there. I keep my dog in an outdoor kennel when I'm not home. He's actually excited to go into it, and you don't hear a peep out of him all day. He _hates_ being in his crate when no one is home. I also like that if something comes up and I can't get home in time, it's not a big deal because he can relieve himself, eat, and drink water whenever he pleases. 

I don't think being indoors is necessarily safer than being outdoors, and I think I've heard more stories about people's dogs eating or chewing something indoors and having to go to the vet than poisoning or stealing stories. We just had a news article on this forum about a neighbor who kicked in his neighbor's front door and beat their german shepherd with a rake.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

CPH said:


> I have actually heard straw is a better way to go, so its good to get that reconfirmed. We will definitely look into changing the carpet out and putting straw in. Thanks for the suggestion!


When you get the bales check it over and make sure you don't see any powdery green stuff in it. There's a mold that can grow in old hay and some dogs are allergic to it.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> I don't see anything wrong with a dog being secured outside while the owner is not home. Don't think if you're home or at night the dog should be outside by himself, though. However, I'd consider you dog not being happy away from "his" house even when you are gone. Chewing out of an outdoor kennel is a lot of work and he was either very distressed or very bored. You might want to explore ways to keep him in the house while you are gone if he's going to be destructive while outside. Even if you make something strong enough that he can't get out of again, he might do serious damage to himself tyring.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, aren't you always the one posting to be nice to people, hold hands, and sing around the campfire? Yet calling something someone said as "ignoramous." YIKES.


yeees,his statement came off as being ingnorant of the situation.So many comments on here can be deemed ignorant as in making a statement about a person or subject in which they really have no basis or knowledge that pertains to the situation or subject being discussed.
I believe it was his comment about how I have sooo much land and idylic country side setting.idylic?honestly,this is obviously a place he's never had to live in.I have neighbours that will shoot on sight if an animal crosses their fence,others that set out poison because of coyotes,a roaring highway that will give no second chances to unaware animals,coyotes that will hunt out any pets or livestock,skunks that come out from under the deck with no warning and take it upon themselves to spray as they deemed you the interloper,oh,and lovely porcupines that will use defense as the first resort to all animals,ect.thats just about the idylic part.
yes I get my hackles up when someone delivers a very narrow minded view at the same time making alot of people sound unethical and cruel in their treatment of animals when it is truly not the case,far from it.
in this case he made the statement first and foremost and I merely defended and clarified my position.Exactly as I am doing to you as you have now made a some what offensive post.I tend to jump in when people are looking for answers or help and they get attacked with some pretty brutal responses that are generally uncalled for.There is a diffrence when it is the poster who is attacking out right and not really wanting answers at all.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

CPH said:


> He always has a few toys out there with him so he is never left with nothing to do. Someone suggested creating some sort of a pull system with toys which i think might work really well.


trust me,if it works for tigers and similar species it will work for a bored pup plus its good excersize for him and great for eye cordination and his ability to think things through.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I think an outdoor kennel is safer.... What if he was inside in a crate and the house caught on fire? He'd be outside, safe in the kennel. I don't think someone would throw rat poison or antifreeze, or something that would be a typical danger for an outside dog, in his kennel.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

tierra nuestra said:


> yeees,his statement came off as being ingnorant of the situation.So many comments on here can be deemed ignorant as in making a statement about a person or subject in which they really have no basis or knowledge that pertains to the situation or subject being discussed.
> I believe it was his comment about how I have sooo much land and idylic country side setting.idylic?honestly,this is obviously a place he's never had to live in.I have neighbours that will shoot on sight if an animal crosses their fence,others that set out poison because of coyotes,a roaring highway that will give no second chances to unaware animals,coyotes that will hunt out any pets or livestock,skunks that come out from under the deck with no warning and take it upon themselves to spray as they deemed you the interloper,oh,and lovely porcupines that will use defense as the first resort to all animals,ect.thats just about the idylic part.
> yes I get my hackles up when someone delivers a very narrow minded view at the same time making alot of people sound unethical and cruel in their treatment of animals when it is truly not the case,far from it.
> in this case he made the statement first and foremost and I merely defended and clarified my position.Exactly as I am doing to you as you have now made a some what offensive post.I tend to jump in when people are looking for answers or help and they get attacked with some pretty brutal responses that are generally uncalled for.There is a diffrence when it is the poster who is attacking out right and not really wanting answers at all.


Of course--it's always "different" and justified when you're the doing it.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

tierra nuestra said:


> yeees,his statement came off as being ingnorant of the situation.So many comments on here can be deemed ignorant as in making a statement about a person or subject in which they really have no basis or knowledge that pertains to the situation or subject being discussed.
> I believe it was his comment about how I have sooo much land and idylic country side setting.idylic?honestly,this is obviously a place he's never had to live in.I have neighbours that will shoot on sight if an animal crosses their fence,others that set out poison because of coyotes,a roaring highway that will give no second chances to unaware animals,coyotes that will hunt out any pets or livestock,skunks that come out from under the deck with no warning and take it upon themselves to spray as they deemed you the interloper,oh,and lovely porcupines that will use defense as the first resort to all animals,ect.thats just about the idylic part.
> yes I get my hackles up when someone delivers a very narrow minded view at the same time making alot of people sound unethical and cruel in their treatment of animals when it is truly not the case,far from it.
> in this case he made the statement first and foremost and I merely defended and clarified my position.Exactly as I am doing to you as you have now made a some what offensive post.I tend to jump in when people are looking for answers or help and they get attacked with some pretty brutal responses that are generally uncalled for.There is a diffrence when it is the poster who is attacking out right and not really wanting answers at all.


Okay so you think it is okay for a puppy to be left outside in cold temps. That is your opinion. Maybe I am "ignorant" of the situation.  Maybe you can tell me how close her neighbors are. What that puppy does all day outside. That he isn't eating his poop, etc. because he has the freedom at his young age to do things unattended. Maybe you can tell that this puppy is so happy with his living conditions that he chewed out of them. Please- enlighten the ignorant. We are here to learn after all. From people who know it all.


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> lmfao, the OP lives in _vancouver_. That's like the Los Angeles of canada. I've got a friend who moved there in october from saskatchewan, and he's been wearing nothing but t-shirts outside all winter. Their winter average is only 4C(39.2F). I think the only dogs that would be too cold in that weather are hairless ones.


Haha See all of Canada is not a frozen wasteland!! Its actually up to 50F today, which is even too warm to wear my jacket today. Let me be very clear that when it does get down below 40's he is not left outside. He is also not left outside when it is pouring rain or really windy so I am by no means just throwing him out there to survive in terrible conditions. Those days he either goes to daycare or is "puppy sat" by my parents at their house. He is also only out there for about 4-6 hours during the day. The kennel is between the side of the house and the wood fence which encloses the yard. Our neighbors are fairly close but are actually home during the day on both sides. They have told us that he doesn't ever bark or howl or anything during the day and most times when they look out he's actually sleeping in his house. 

We actually starting slowly working up to keeping him outside because at training sessions with our breeder (which included 4 of his siblings) all the siblings were outside during the day and had their winter coats but he was spoiled inside and hadn't developed his yet. So we started one day, then two, then three etc so it wasn't just all of a sudden he was thrown out there.

Funny enough he has actually only pooped in his kennel once. He must see it as his space enough to hold it until we get home and he then goes in the yard outside of his kennel. A dog that is left indoors could just as easily chew a wall, door or anything else so does that mean that dog doesn't like its indoor living conditions? He has a ton of energy and as well as reinforcing the **** out of the kennel this weekend we are going to work on the pulley toy system for him. Morning runs will also be a must now.

I really do appreciate all the advice and past experiences. My goal is to keep my puppy as happy, safe and healthy as possible so thanks everyone for the suggestions!


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

50's! I'd be thrilled with 40's. We have had snow on the ground since December and now it's solid ice everywhere temps haven't even been in the 30's. I can't understand how it can be warmer in Canada, go figure.


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

kiya said:


> 50's! I'd be thrilled with 40's. We have had snow on the ground since December and now it's solid ice everywhere temps haven't even been in the 30's. I can't understand how it can be warmer in Canada, go figure.


Haha I keep seeing these awesome posts with pictures of these happy dogs playing in the snow and I am soooo jealous! We never ever get big snows like that. We got about 1" of snow that lasted 12 hours and that is all we've had all winter! Our weather report for the next 14 days averages about 45-55 every day.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

kris10 said:


> okay so you think it is okay for a puppy to be left outside in cold temps. That is your opinion. Maybe i am "ignorant" of the situation.  Maybe you can tell me how close her neighbors are. What that puppy does all day outside. That he isn't eating his poop, etc. Because he has the freedom at his young age to do things unattended. Maybe you can tell that this puppy is so happy with his living conditions that he chewed out of them. Please- enlighten the ignorant. We are here to learn after all. From people who know it all.


i believe we were talking about my situation here???were we not?i believe
you made the assumption on my position,was that not correct?about my idylic setting and so much land?you are once again making an assumpition about what my thoughts are about leaving a puppy in cold temps.nowhere in my posts did i say its ok to leave a pup in cold temps whatsoever.even though the op has stated they live in vancouver.that is not a deffinition of cold to anyone who lives in canada.are you familiar with vancouver?
As for the op's kennel conditions,they are in no way cruel or unethical by any standards.how can you ask what that pup does all day outside and not even ask yourself what yours does all day inside?leaving a dog to roam inside the house is no diffrent than leaving a pup in a contained kennel outside.seriously,your arguments are making you sound less and less reasonable and realistic.a puppy will become just as bored inside the house as out.a puppy can still crap on the floor as easily inside as out and be able to consume it.
Need i remind you as several others have,you made the comments about owners who have an outside kennel for their dogs that are simply not true or realistic.
It comes down to looking at the situation as it is.if the self same pup were to be left inside the house as what you obviously recommend,do you think that pup will be automaticly safe from harm and do no damage to the house or itself?
Do you think a pup that is willing to chew through wire because of possible boredom be less bored in a house alone?do you think he will respect objects/furniture all of a sudden because he's able to differentiate between a kennel and inside a house?
Do you think that because a pup is left indoors,he will be able to thought process the difference between dangers outside and dangers inside?
Do you think that it is more humane to this type of pup to be inside a very small container rather than a larger space to stretch and be able to relieve himself when needed?
Do you think this will help his boredom issue at all?
Either application of these two different methods have their down points but they have their merits to each owner and dog as well.
I myself use an outside kennel when needed because it suits my needs as well as the dog,livestock,neighbours ect.but i realize others make a different application work for their needs and i am not about to say they are wrong.this is not a true case of cruelty and abuse.there are many deciding factors in what will make things work for dog owners and as person inputting an opinion you need to keep an open mind to others decisions as a whole.i am simply defending my choice which is my right and am not stating you are wrong for your choice.there is a vast difference to taking up a cause because a difference of choice or preference versus taking a stance against true abuse and neglect.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

gsdelsa said:


> of course--it's always "different" and justified when you're the doing it.


yes its justified when we are talking about myself or my choice.how can some stranger i've never met be judge and jury to someone else's choice?i am not telling him he's wrong in keeping his dog inside even though i do not totally agree with his reasoning.but he "is" telling everyone else that keeping a dog in an outside kennel "is" wrong and not right and comes off in a way that makes it sound unethical.this is honestly giving me a headache.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

cph said:


> haha see all of canada is not a frozen wasteland!! Its actually up to 50f today, which is even too warm to wear my jacket today. Let me be very clear that when it does get down below 40's he is not left outside. He is also not left outside when it is pouring rain or really windy so i am by no means just throwing him out there to survive in terrible conditions. Those days he either goes to daycare or is "puppy sat" by my parents at their house. He is also only out there for about 4-6 hours during the day. The kennel is between the side of the house and the wood fence which encloses the yard. Our neighbors are fairly close but are actually home during the day on both sides. They have told us that he doesn't ever bark or howl or anything during the day and most times when they look out he's actually sleeping in his house.
> 
> We actually starting slowly working up to keeping him outside because at training sessions with our breeder (which included 4 of his siblings) all the siblings were outside during the day and had their winter coats but he was spoiled inside and hadn't developed his yet. So we started one day, then two, then three etc so it wasn't just all of a sudden he was thrown out there.
> 
> ...


good luck and hope you work the kinks out.they truly get better with age and you will thank yourself later on down the road that you persisted when you have a mature dog that has been well loved and tended.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

CPH, Your pup is adorable. I'm so lucky I never had to make those decisions. I adopted my dog at 2 years of age. She has always stayed in the house, did not need to be crated, was never destructive and never had accidents. Well - she is old now and somewhat incontinent, but she can't help that. My avatar is my girl doing her favorite thing - looking out the window. She thinks she owns the street. There was a fire truck in front of the house - well 12 actually. "Annie" had to monitor the situation. 

It is so good that your boy is not a barker and your neighbors seem nice. I have a lot of neighbors and they would definitely complain if my dog was left out and barked. (And she probably would.)

Good luck reinforcing the kennel and keeping your boy safe. It is all trial and error. I'm sure with the suggestions you have received, you will find something that works.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Good grief are you still talking about me Tierra? 
I actually do want to apologize to the OP. In re-reading my early posts I certainly was out of line. I could have taken the time to express my opinion in a much more polite manner. I am sure you love your dog to death. You weren't clear about how you handled bad weather until today, and he is so young. I live in the South and see a lot of dogs that are left outside all the time here and not treated like family members- not what I was used to, so it is a pet peeve of mine - but I should not have taken it out on you. I had the crankies last night indeed.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

Kris10 said:


> Good grief are you still talking about me Tierra?
> I actually do want to apologize to the OP. In re-reading my early posts I certainly was out of line. I could have taken the time to express my opinion in a much more polite manner. I am sure you love your dog to death. You weren't clear about how you handled bad weather until today, and he is so young. I live in the South and see a lot of dogs that are left outside all the time here and not treated like family members- not what I was used to, so it is a pet peeve of mine - but I should not have taken it out on you. I had the crankies last night indeed.


well this is rare and honestly well done of you.an honest apology is indeed rare and i would do the same to you for coming off at you too quick with a quote I would not usually make either.seriously,I have a migraine that has no equal today.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

tierra nuestra. Must be one of those days. I woke up with a migraine this morning too.
Hope you feel better.


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## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> tierra nuestra. Must be one of those days. I woke up with a migraine this morning too.
> Hope you feel better.


we have a chinook today which is always killer for me.I get hemiplegic one with strong auras.lose my sight,numbness and of course a killer upset stomach after.ick...but same too you,i hope it passes quickly for you too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Be careful what toys you leave with your bored puppy. Give pup a work out before you go, and leave the pup with only hard rubber toys, and be sure to check for wear and remove if that is happening.

The reason I say this is, one of my pups in his new home, had toys and ATE them. Had a blockage. Had to have a surgery. Dog is ok now, but if the pup is bored, and will chew through wire, it may also EAT toys that are not durable enough.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

tierra nuestra said:


> well this is rare and honestly well done of you.an honest apology is indeed rare and i would do the same to you for coming off at you too quick with a quote I would not usually make either.seriously,I have a migraine that has no equal today.


Well thanks for that. I hope you are feeling better


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