# Ugly morning... still angry



## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

First of all... I know I'm gonna get some "I told ya so's". Max goes to our private dog park almost every morning and evening and always has a blast. Well, this morning we go at 7:15 as usual and there is the usual gang of his buddies. There is one dog, Joe (65lb mutt), who's very territorial with toys and I've heard people say he's trouble sometimes, but over the last couple of months he's just barked and growled when I've been around. Any way, Max is running and playing his heart out with all of his friends, but Joe keeps jumping in the middle right when they're really having a ball and interupts the fun, by barking and intimidating everybody. The woman who owns him is pretty much oblivious and gives out a meek, "joe... now stop that... quit it Joe, that's not nice" By the way, the husband sometimes has Joe there and he's even worse. The entire time the dog and he are there, he is non-stop screaming and yelling at him... non-stop.... very disturbing. 

So, Max and the other dogs keep trying to play and Joe is running circles around them with an oversized tennis ball in his mouth. He drops the ball and runs about 10 yards away and Max starts to go for the ball, wagging his tail and thinking here's a free ball. Joe sees him and before Max even gets to the ball, Joe is on him and begins this vicious attack, pinning him down while Max is screaming, biting him all over the neck!!! I instantly tackled Joe and had to yank him as hard as I could by his throat. I'm literally rolling on the ground struggling to keep that a-hole away from Max and from biting me. 
I pin Joe down till he chills and then get up- and start checking Max for injuries. Meanwhile, Joe's owner says nothing and just holds Joe by the collar, petting him and telling he's bad. I say out loud, "THAT was totally out of control!! Get that dog out of here NOW!" She says nothing. I say, "YOU leave now, or we're leaving!" Still not a word from the woman. So, I put Max on leash and we walk out and over to the bathing area outside of the fenced part. While I'm washing Max, Joe's owner takes Joe into the smaller fenced area for puppies and smaller dogs, just to isolate him) and sits there watching me bathe Max and leave, again without saying a word, no apology, no, "I should leave, not you". I felt that I had already said enough and that if I had stayed any longer I would have gotten really verbally abusive! 

Max has been checked over and though I'm surprised, has no broken skin. He's seemed to have shaken the ordeal off pretty well. but he has been laying next to me with his head in my lap since we've been home. He's not normally that snuggely. I think he knows that I protected him big time. I wonder if that's a memory that will influence his protection of me some day? 

I'm going to report the dog tomorrow. It is simply not fair that anyone should have to hesitate about taking their dog there just because of one bad apple. Anyhow... long story, but I needed to vent.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I would definitely report that owner. Therre's no way an uncontolled dog should be allowed at the dog park without at least wearing a leash. What a bad owner too for not recognizing the need to control her dog and the need for her to remove her dog, the aggressor. I'm glad that Max wasn't hurt.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

And no apology!!!! Nada. She and her  dog are toast!


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

Relayer said:


> And no apology!!!! Nada. She and her  dog are toast!


 That's just plain rotten of her! What a B**CH


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

The other ironic thing is, everybody there adores Max. Just seconds before the attack, Joe's owner and several other people were commenting on what a well behaved dog he is and that he's the best behaved GSD they've seen. Then.... BAM!!


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## HandsomeSamson (Jun 7, 2010)

That sucks, I don't know how I could restrain myself if another dog attacked my Samson...I don't think it would be pretty


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Relayer said:


> The other ironic thing is, everybody there adores Max. Just seconds before the attack, Joe's owner and several other people were commenting on what a well behaved dog he is and that he's the best behaved GSD they've seen. Then.... BAM!!


How old is Max? Is he still a puppy? Thank goodness that neither he nor you were bitten badly.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Oh that is one crappy morning. So sorry to hear about. I found it quite unsettling for some time when such has happened to mine.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

It is good that you are reporting the owner. I fear some (sick) people go to dog parks knowing their dogs are aggressive. I have heard too many stories like this. I am so glad your morning did not result in a ER Vet trip!


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## Cluemanti (Jun 25, 2010)

Sorry to hear, not sure what I would have done in that situation. You handled it a lot better than I would have.


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

So sorry this happened to you and Max. I'm glad neither of you were hurt!!!


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

So sorry....BUT I told you so! Hopefully he will shake it off quickly and have no real lasting effects....I am so relieved he and you are ok....

This is why I am so picky who Jake interacts with as a puppy, it scares me.

Thank God you were right there...poor baby!


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## Mac's Dad (Jul 10, 2010)

OMG You had a really bad morning. How big is the other dog? Is your GSD a puppy? The other dog might not be so lucky next time. That owner what a B*TCH


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Yes, Max is a puppy!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks everybody! Well, we just returned from the park again. He was so bummed out that I figured he better get back on the horse and ride. Didn't want him to be afraid. There were 6 aussies there and he played with them for an hour with no problems. He was unusually shy for the first 15 minutes or so, but then jumped right in and had a blast.

Here's Max, for those asked about him. He's 4 1/2 months.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> So sorry....BUT I told you so! Hopefully he will shake it off quickly and have no real lasting effects....I am so relieved he and you are ok....
> 
> This is why I am so picky who Jake interacts with as a puppy, it scares me.
> 
> Thank God you were right there...poor baby!


Hah! Yes, in a way you did.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Oh he is a baby! It sounds like he has resilience. Hopefully the good will outweigh the bad. Events in a puppy life are much larger than those in an older dog with many experiences. 

You know me.... durn blasted good for nuthin' dog parks! Never tried it, never will.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Samba said:


> Oh he is a baby! It sounds like he has resilience. Hopefully the good will outweigh the bad. Events in a puppy life are much larger than those in an older dog with many experiences.
> 
> You know me.... durn blasted good for nuthin' dog parks! Never tried it, never will.


He's a very brave little guy with pretty high drive, although at the same time, very social. I'm not giving up on the park because he gets so much good exercise and social time there normally. It's a pay park and is owned by our vet (right behind the office). The vast majority of owners are very responsible and have well behaved dogs. I am a personal friend of the chief vet and I guarantee Joe will not be coming back!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

That part sounds good.


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

Sounds like you handle it well and good for you and Jake for "getting back in the saddle" so soon. Sounds like he'll bounce back with your management. He looks great too.

If this was a private park and you and others had or saw the ongoing issues with this dog - did people complain about this dog and owners before this? How was it handled? Sounds like this was an incident waiting to happen.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Kayla's Dad said:


> Sounds like you handle it well and good for you and Jake for "getting back in the saddle" so soon. Sounds like he'll bounce back with your management. He looks great too.
> 
> If this was a private park and you and others had or saw the ongoing issues with this dog - did people complain about this dog and owners before this? How was it handled? Sounds like this was an incident waiting to happen.


Thanks, I think that because most of the owners have such good dogs and manners, they can be too generous giving others the benefit of doubt and a second chance. This incident was witnessed and was clearly and totally aggressive. Joe will not be back. One of the witnesses is a nurse who has two great labs and she was looking at me shaking her head in disgust.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Relayer - Mac loves to go to the dog park too. The only time we ever had a problem is when my friend brought her 6 year old mix (?) to the park with me & Mac.

Her dog was aggressively barking at all of the other dogs. I felt really uncomfortable. People were getting really annoyed. When we left I asked her if he's been like that before. She said that he always acts like that at dog parks. I couldn't believe she continues to submit the other dogs to her dog's agression. I've never gone with her again.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Max is just at the stage where he is losing his puppy license. Also good socialization experiences are very good, bad ones are very bad. But much depends on you and your reaction to this. I would try to block it out of my mind completely and try not to let it affect anything. Continue to get Max out there and play. Continue to train around other dogs, etc. 

I am not a fan of dog parks, but if that is a good outlet for you, I would not take a break from it. I would leave the instant you see this other dog there. First time, shame on you, second time, shame on me. 

Good luck with the puppy. I think he should be fine.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Relayer said:


> Thanks everybody! Well, we just returned from the park again. He was so bummed out that I figured he better get back on the horse and ride. Didn't want him to be afraid. There were 6 aussies there and he played with them for an hour with no problems. He was unusually shy for the first 15 minutes or so, but then jumped right in and had a blast.
> 
> Here's Max, for those asked about him. He's 4 1/2 months.


What a little cutie! That also explains why you jumped in to protect him. 

I think if a dog jumped on our dog Baron, I would have a very hard job getting in front of him in any case. Not quick enough!


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Not a fan of dog parks either....primarily because of such things happening.
Also...dogs are pack animals...and at the dog parks, the "pack" constantly changes...so does the "order"(for so many reasons).
Again, just my opinion....I know alot of people who enjoy them.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Dogs are not simply aggressive or not individuals either. Play can escalate and any dog that is not one who always rolls over can get the push or the nip that sends the play to another frame of mind.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

there's a dog at the dog park
i go to that's aggressive with my dog.
whenever this dog shows up i leave.
when i get to the dog park if that dog
is there i don't go in.

there's a place in the woods near my house
where my dog plays. a bunch of people show
up with there dogs. there's an ankle nipper
there that went after my dog twice.

the owner of the nipper and i exchanged
phone numbers. we call each other when
we're heading to that part of the woods.
by calling each other we never have to
run into each other and our dogs are safe.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Well, thanks for all of the well wishes and advice. We did go back, because I refuse to let a traumatic incident effect him for life. He was hesitant at first, but went back to his old friendly self very soon. I will not leave if that dog shows up again. Rather, I will insist that he leave and if they won't take him out, I'll go over to the vet's office that owns the park (right in front of the park) and have him removed. That will work, but if it doesn't, I'll shoot that dog in front of God and any witnesses if he touches Max ever again!! This is Florida and I have a license to carry. When Max grows up, he'd die to protect me... I'll protect him, period! Stupid idiotic ignorant owners!!! Ughhhhhhh!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I had a five month old get attacked in class. The owner was not ignorant or stupid. She was in fact an experienced and capable instructor. Her dog had not done such a thing before. I guess we would call it not aggressive. It all went badly for my pup. It does not take bad dogs or bad owners for situations to go all wrong in these kind of play deals.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Samba said:


> I had a five month old get attacked in class. The owner was not ignorant or stupid. She was in fact an experienced and capable instructor. Her dog had not done such a thing before. I guess we would call it not aggressive. It all went badly for my pup. It does not take bad dogs or bad owners for situations to go all wrong in these kind of play deals.


No doubt, but Joe has a reputation and even shows up with an E-collar sometimes.. there's your sign!!!


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I agree Samba...
....and a simple "look, bump, sniff, bark or OBJECT"...changes the entire situation.....after all...they are simply animals.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Relayer said:


> No doubt, but Joe has a reputation and even shows up with an E-collar sometimes.. there's your sign!!!


Having an e-collar says that a dog is aggressive?

Might be only used because he doesn't recall very well. I know a number of people with totally non aggressive dogs who use e-collars. The e-collar is not a sign of aggressivness any more than a prong collar would be.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Having an e-collar says that a dog is aggressive?
> 
> Might be only used because he doesn't recall very well. I know a number of people with totally non aggressive dogs who use e-collars. The e-collar is not a sign of aggressivness any more than a prong collar would be.


Nice try at giving the benefit of doubt. I know all of these people very well... this is a small community. The e-collar for Joe was bought specifically because he is out of control and a bully in the first degree.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Well, I hope the ecollar is in reference to some problem in the dog actually. I know many fine, fine dogs sporting an ecollar at times.

I think the idea is that this dog is known to aggress or behave aggressively. If so, then the owner should already be heads up not to put him in with others. My training friend does not turn her Golden bitch loose with others because we all know she can agress, so why tempt fate.

I am just saying there are risks inherent in this group play activity no matter who is there or what they have or have not done previously. These are dogs after all.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

This is exactly why I don't go to dog parks anymore. I used to bring Lucy all the time starting when she was about Max's age (4 months). Everytime i was there a fight would break out. It's a joke how people take their aggressive dogs to the park and not even care. I've seen it happen so many times. Eventually, i had enough of the aggressive dogs that I don't even bother going anymore. I'm not risking Lucys mental and physical health to play with some dog aggresive dogs. 

If you want to keep going to the dog park, i hope it never happens again, but don't be surprised when Max gets attacked again like that. Don't even think for a second that Joe is going to be the only aggressive dog that Max is going to run into. It sucks to say, but that's just the risk you're taking going to a public dog park. Idiot owners and their aggressive dogs.


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

Zeva barks at every dog she sees... bit ones, little ones, cats... I avoid dog parks. It's not worth the risk to her ticking some other dog off or me getting sued. I don't think she'd attack, but her barking might get them to go at her. 

She's never barked at Murphy and they can't stand not being in the same room w/ her. If she has to spend the rest of her life here on my land, running around or at my moms w/ Murphy, she'll remain very happy. Though she does LOVE ppl. 

I'm not sure how Murphy is w/ other dogs, he's young and has always had other dogs around him. They may never bother him or he might flip like she does... who knows... 

I take her to the park, just not off leash. I don't trust it, her, them... Dogs are dogs and one wrong move by even the most behaved dogs can start something.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Relayer said:


> Nice try at giving the benefit of doubt. I know all of these people very well... this is a small community. The e-collar for Joe was bought specifically because he is out of control and a bully in the first degree.


Wasn't a try at anything - just a fact of life. 

If the owners are using an e-collar because the dog is aggressive, I would give them a little credit for trying but very low grades for smartness! 

Ecollars are not very useful for correcting aggression unless you really know what you are doing - could easily escalate the DA instead of helping it.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> This is exactly why I don't go to dog parks anymore. I used to bring Lucy all the time starting when she was about Max's age (4 months). Everytime i was there a fight would break out. It's a joke how people take their aggressive dogs to the park and not even care. I've seen it happen so many times. Eventually, i had enough of the aggressive dogs that I don't even bother going anymore. I'm not risking Lucys mental and physical health to play with some dog aggresive dogs.
> 
> If you want to keep going to the dog park, i hope it never happens again, but don't be surprised when Max gets attacked again like that. Don't even think for a second that Joe is going to be the only aggressive dog that Max is going to run into. It sucks to say, but that's just the risk you're taking going to a public dog park. Idiot owners and their aggressive dogs.


But it is not a public park. You'd have to see how intimate and comfortable it normally is to appreciate. You know I'm often on the same page with you, but we don't have issues very often at all. This was the first truly ugly situation I've witnessed in 2 months of going twice a day. This a "one bad apple" situation that is easily fixed by banning the dog. I don't think I would ever take Max to a different dog park.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Wasn't a try at anything - just a fact of life.
> 
> If the owners are using an e-collar because the dog is aggressive, I would give them a little credit for trying but very low grades for smartness!
> 
> Ecollars are not very useful for correcting aggression unless you really know what you are doing - could easily escalate the DA instead of helping it.


AND?? They are thinking that it will be useful for correcting aggression. DA already exists with this dog and the owners are well aware.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

why shoot the dog if it happens again? why not avoid
the situation? work something out with the owner
of the dog. the two of you don't have to be in 
the park at the same time. you're in a dog park
and these things can and will happen.

if you shoot this guys dog in the park you're at fault
or blame. it's a dog park and everybody has a right
to be there. the guy with the aggressive dog shouldn't
be there or is this dog only aggressive with your dog?

when Max grows up you don't know if Max will
die for you. the chances are he won't die for you.
i think if a dog has a chance to survive and you die
they're going to save themselves and even if
Max would die for you you shouldn't shoot the other
dog.

don't be surprised if you shoot the dog in the dog park
you find yourself faced with a lot of trouble.

now think about. this, you kill the dog.
now you're a 3 time loser. you're
a loser for shooting the dog, you're a loser
for going to jail and you're even a bigger loser for losing
Max because you're in jail.



Relayer said:


> That will work, but if it doesn't, I'll shoot that dog in front of God and any witnesses if he touches Max ever again!! This is Florida and I have a license to carry. When Max grows up, he'd die to protect me... I'll protect him, period! Stupid idiotic ignorant owners!!! Ughhhhhhh!!


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Relayer said:


> But it is not a public park. You'd have to see how intimate and comfortable it normally is to appreciate. You know I'm often on the same page with you, but we don't have issues very often at all. This was the first truly ugly situation I've witnessed in 2 months of going twice a day. This a "one bad apple" situation that is easily fixed by banning the dog. I don't think I would ever take Max to a different dog park.


Oh i was all for the dog parks - they're great places if the right dogs are there. I completely agree with you about that. There just aren't always "the right" dogs there, at least in my bad experiences.

What do you mean it isn't public though? Do dogs have to have a temperment test before being allowed access? Are there fees to join? That would be pretty cool if there was if you ask me.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what makes this a private park and if it
is a private park why don't you and the other dog
owners complain and have the dog banned?



Relayer said:


> But it is not a public park. You'd have to see how intimate and comfortable it normally is to appreciate.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Heh! Heh!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> Oh i was all for the dog parks - they're great places if the right dogs are there. I completely agree with you about that. There just aren't always "the right" dogs there, at least in my bad experiences.
> 
> What do you mean it isn't public though? Do dogs have to have a temperment test before being allowed access? Are there fees to join? That would be pretty cool if there was if you ask me.


Temperment, no. But, they have to be clients of the vet, it is a fairly high fee for use and again, this a small community so most everyone is pretty aware of what impact their dog has or may have. It's about being responsible and having respect for others. If this was a public park in LA or Chicago... forget about it! We have beautifully maintained grounds and nearly 100% good dogs and owners. You'd like it here!! Really. Other than today, it's pretty nice.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> what makes this a private park and if it
> is a private park why don't you and the other dog
> owners complain and have the dog banned?


The dog WILL be banned. I have zero doubt.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Relayer said:


> Temperment, no. But, they have to be clients of the vet, it is a fairly high fee for use and again, this a small community so most everyone is pretty aware of what impact their dog has or may have. It's about being responsible and having respect for others. If this was a public park in LA or Chicago... forget about it! We have beautifully maintained grounds and nearly 100% good dogs and owners. You'd like it here!! Really. Other than today, it's pretty nice.


Have you complained to the vets office yet? That would have been my first step in fixing the situation. You said other owners have complained about this dog too, so it's an obvious issue. I'd speak to the vet or whoevers in charge of overseeing the park and see what they say. This dog should not be allowed there. It's worth a shot before doing anything more drastic.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> Have you complained to the vets office yet? That would have been my first step in fixing the situation. You said other owners have complained about this dog too, so it's an obvious issue. I'd speak to the vet or whoevers in charge of overseeing the park and see what they say. This dog should not be allowed there. It's worth a shot before doing anything more drastic.


If you read the earlier parts of thread, you'd know what I am going to do and why it will result in a ban.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> why shoot the dog if it happens again? why not avoid
> the situation? work something out with the owner
> of the dog. the two of you don't have to be in
> the park at the same time. you're in a dog park
> ...


For the last time... it is NOT a public park!! And furthermore, it is in Polk County FL, not Winter Haven city limits, so discharging a firearm is completely legal. I'm the biggest dog advocate you'll meet, but I will not tolerate my dog being attacked viciously. Period. Besides. it's not as if I'd actually shoot the dog... that is unless it touches my dog again, after a warning that specifically mentions that I'll shoot it.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I thought i read the entire thread, but maybe I missed something. I hope you weren't serious about bringing a gun to the park and shooting the dog. I mean, i'm all for protecting your puppy, but I wouldn't recommend shooting the dog unless ABSOLUTELY neccessary. 

To be honest, i'd rather hear you shooting the owner in the foot for being stupid than shooting the dog. Kidding, of course... kind of.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> what makes this a private park and if it
> is a private park why don't you and the other dog
> owners complain and have the dog banned?


I think I made a typo when I replied to you. It IS private. Also, the dog will be banned. The rest is just my machismo and what I would do if by some odd chance he isn't banned and bites Max again.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Lucy Dog said:


> I thought i read the entire thread, but maybe I missed something. I hope you weren't serious about bringing a gun to the park and shooting the dog. I mean, i'm all for protecting your puppy, but I wouldn't recommend shooting the dog unless ABSOLUTELY neccessary.
> 
> To be honest, i'd rather hear you shooting the owner in the foot for being stupid than shooting the dog. Kidding, of course... kind of.


I always have a gun in my car. I'm a make love not war kinda guy, but I do believe in self defense. I would never carry into the dog park. I would however threaten to go to my car, get the gun and shoot the dog if the owner refused to take it away after another attack. I would have no problem with that. I can also say with complete confidence that no Polk Co. judge would rule against me. Look... I adore dogs. It will most likely never ever come to a dead animal, but Max getting attacked, along with plenty of warning to the owner... I lose my patience. THAT is evolution!!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

even if the dog isn't banned don't shoot him.
you're going to make a big mistake.

what makes the dog park private, you didn't
answer that?



Relayer said:


> I think I made a typo when I replied to you. It IS private. Also, the dog will be banned. The rest is just my machismo and what I would do if by some odd chance he isn't banned and bites Max again.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> even if the dog isn't banned don't shoot him.
> you're going to make a big mistake.
> 
> what makes the dog park private, you didn't
> answer that?


I already stated this, but just for you... it's owned by our vet. It costs $160 a year to join. Our vet is a personal friend. He and his wife eat dinner at our house. I would never ever want to shoot a dog, but if I had to he would know why and not press charges on his private property.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

To all: I'm still really pissed off. Please forgive me for the "shoot the offender" stuff. I've had guns (hey, I live in the south!) since I was a boy and I've never shot a dog or anything else that wasn't intended for the dinner table. This situation won't get near that far. Joe will be banned and that wil be the end of the story.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am not trying to be argumentative in any way. I think you realize that I understand what you are saying about the particular dog. 

I guess if we put our dogs in situations where an attack is a real possibility (that could be going around the block though), we have to think about how that might end up. The thought of some sort of weaponry might be in order. I have had to bust up fights in some not so fun ways. What about a stun stick, a small tazer or small stun gun? Physically separating two dogs in an escalating fight is not very savory. I think dog parks should have some of this in one of those boxes where you break the glass in case of emergency! Of course, there is the risk that these things may actually escalate the fight if the dogs are in survival mode. Really, I think I currently am not prepared to protect my dog on the walks we take even now. If you aren't going to shoot an attacking dog, then how are you going to save yours from severe injury? 

I have seen dog play in situations where it all went well for months and months with the same group of buds... until it didn't. So no matter how much fun it might be for my dogs, I won't take the risk. We will find our fun another way.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I agree to some extent. This is really all about appropriateness with bringing an aggressive dog to a social scene and the humans that make the judgement. Shoot the dog?? You should have seen this 51 year old guy having to act like a football tackle yanking the offender off, holding him by the neck, avoiding getting mauled myself and then pinning him down and comforting him till he calmed down enough so I could tend to Max. I know what I'm doing. I've dealt with highly aggressive dogs and have great compassion. Now it's up to the owner to keep the dog away.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Some dog/owner pairs are obviously not candidates for the social scene from the get-go, yes.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Samba said:


> Some dog/owner pairs are obviously not candidates for the social scene from the get-go, yes.


That and some owners should never have been owners at all. You can see them struggling behind a dog that's pulling them down the sidewalk, right, then left. You can see them at any kind of park screaching complicated phrases like, "hey, you know you shouldn't do that!!" or "Billy!! That's naughty... stop that right now!" so on.... Then there's the loud yelling and screaming people. "No!!! I said No!!!! Nooooooo! Nooooo! Nooooo! Bad boy!" Stop that!! I said NO!!" They yell and keep increasing the volume, while the dog just keeps getting more excited and desensitized.


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## bellamia (Feb 7, 2010)

so sorry for you! Glad Max is not hurt,at least no broken skin. this is horrific! I am convinced that SOME FREAK (not all) non gsd owners are tickled pink secretly when their mutt attacks a gsd and that gsd does nothing or very little, or simply wont defend himself.! cause its like ,'oh , my dog can take down a gsd!''. these people live on another planet and i hate them. have had to deal with some myself, though nothing on this level. i hope u these people are reported and never allowed to come to this park. i say this with passion cause i myself came close to what u described but thankfully didn't last month!:hug:


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Glad you and your dog are ok. Thats what really matters. As for the gun, yea bad idea.

You said the lady who owns the dog sometimes has her husband take the dog and he constantly yells at the dog? Who knows what that guy is doing to the dog at home!

Its a dog park. Private or public, bad things will happen.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Glad you and your dog are ok. Thats what really matters. As for the gun, yea bad idea.
> 
> You said the lady who owns the dog sometimes has her husband take the dog and he constantly yells at the dog? Who knows what that guy is doing to the dog at home!
> 
> Its a dog park. Private or public, bad things will happen.


That's the worst part, they're spastic and inconsistent. I swear, if I had Joe for 3 weeks, he'd be a great dog. I like Joe... except for his nasty DA. He does seem trainable though. He's only 18 months old and he only has issues with possessions. It very sad. He lives in a world of "mommy thinks I do no wrong" and "Daddy thinks everything I do is wrong." I feel sorry for him.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> That's the worst part, they're spastic and inconsistent. I swear, if I had Joe for 3 weeks, he'd be a great dog. I like Joe... except for his nasty DA. He does seem trainable though. He's only 18 months old and he only has issues with possessions. It very sad. He lives in a world of "mommy thinks I do no wrong" and "Daddy thinks everything I do is wrong." I feel sorry for him.


Since he is young and acting that way. It could be possible he is getting mixed messages and doesn't know how to act. Too bad he can't get help so his issues could be fixed. I would have offered to help train the dog, but it seems the lady won't do that or the husband. Hopefully they learned their lesson.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Since he is young and acting that way. It could be possible he is getting mixed messages and doesn't know how to act. Too bad he can't get help so his issues could be fixed. I would have offered to help train the dog, but it seems the lady won't do that or the husband. Hopefully they learned their lesson.


"They" learned nothing. That's what sucks the most. Joe is great with people and he would probably be ok with dogs except that his owners are clueless. When I say I'd take him, I mean it. I'd adopt him. I'd also kill him if he ever attacks Max again and there isn't a meaningful solution reached.


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## Stormy (Apr 14, 2007)

I think you need to take a step back and rationalize a little bit. You had a very bad situation that had the best possible outcome in the end. Max was not hurt and you took steps to make the dog park safer in the future. Don't go down the road of talking about bringing fire arms to the dog park and gunning down dogs. Hopefully that just emotions or adrenaline talking. But if you are seriously thinking this is a proper way to act then you could be the one with the most to loose. Don't bring yourself down to that level.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> "They" learned nothing. That's what sucks the most. Joe is great with people and he would probably be ok with dogs except that his owners are clueless. When I say I'd take him, I mean it. I'd adopt him. I'd also kill him if he ever attacks Max again and there isn't a meaningful solution reached.


I didn't say they did. I said hopefully they did.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If he only has issues with his possessions then he seems to be more of a resource guarder than DA. Unfortunately, we can't control what other people do. But discharging a gun in a group full of people, possibly children and other dogs doesn't seem to be the smartest choice in the world. I'm sorry that Max was attacked. Believe me...been there, done that...however shooting a dog and traumatizing any children that might be around and scaring the out of everyone seems to be a very poor choice...if you discharged a gun around me and traumatized my dog...you would have a whole new problem.

Just something to think about while you are cooling off from your traumatic experience this morning.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Stormy said:


> I think you need to take a step back and rationalize a little bit. You had a very bad situation that had the best possible outcome in the end. Max was not hurt and you took steps to make the dog park safer in the future. Don't go down the road of talking about bringing fire arms to the dog park and gunning down dogs. Hopefully that just emotions or adrenaline talking. But if you are seriously thinking this is a proper way to act then you could be the one with the most to loose. Don't bring yourself down to that level.


I'm not bringing firearms into the dog park!!! I will protect my dog. I said that I would go to my car and get my gun and shoot the dog, if after telling the owner and telling the staff at the vet doesn't work. Telling the staff will work, so I'm not worried. You shouldn't be either. I'm a dog lover.


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## White German Shepherd (Jun 8, 2010)

Thats why ya carry the good ol baseball bat.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I would rather attack the owner than the dog. I just can't come to think of hurting any dog with a gun, bat, whatever. I just wouldn't be able to live with myself. That is why I sometimes prefer dogs to humans.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

People who responsibly own and carry guns do not shout about it. People who are quick to say that they will shoot this, and they will shoot that, half of them are just talking through their hats and don't even have a gun, and the other half are the reason all the anti-gun people are doing everything in their power to eliminate our ability to have guns. 

I will say this. If that dog is there and attacks your dog and you get them apart AGAIN, and get to your car and get your dog in your car and take out your gun and shoot the other dog, YOU will be in a world of hurt. 

Good luck on that. I have had to separate dogs that were fighting, really fighting, bood, serious bites that needed drains, etc. Gotten a few good bites too over the years. I have never been in a position where I felt I could shoot one of the dogs without possibly shooting the other, even if I had a gun on me. 

Just because some pit bull owners are terribly irresponsible, all the owners and the breed suffers. It is the same with loud mouthed gun toters. All the people who have guns for whatever reason suffer because of the immaturity of a few. Let us not mention the criminal element because all the laws in the world will not change that. 

Anyhow, if you shoot this dog at the dog park, a private park owned by your buddy the vet, well, do you think that your vet is going to continue to have a dog park there?

If they do not ban the dog, or if the dog shows up even though it is ban, get out your cell and call the vet and or the police. The vet can tell the police that the individual has been asked to leave and is not and is therefore trespassing. 

No way would I let my dog play there with the dog that has already attacked him to see if it will happen again so I could shoot it. 

I know that people might not want to leave off playing with their dog in a great spot because someone else is not responsible. If I had to count the times I had to do just this, I would definitely run out of fingers and toes a few times.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

selzer said:


> People who responsibly own and carry guns do not shout about it. People who are quick to say that they will shoot this, and they will shoot that, half of them are just talking through their hats and don't even have a gun, and the other half are the reason all the anti-gun people are doing everything in their power to eliminate our ability to have guns.
> 
> I will say this. If that dog is there and attacks your dog and you get them apart AGAIN, and get to your car and get your dog in your car and take out your gun and shoot the other dog, YOU will be in a world of hurt.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I am not going to shoot the dog!!! I will shoot the dog if the owner is so stupid as to not stop the dog from attacking. Just like a bear attacking your cabin... you'd shoot. I love dogs. I do not shoot dogs on a whim, in fact i've never shot a dog. I do not want to shoot a dog. I do not want to shoot a dog. I will shoot a dog to protect my dog, who is a good dog.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> I am not going to shoot the dog!!! I will shoot the dog if the owner is so stupid as to not stop the dog from attacking. Just like a bear attacking your cabin... you'd shoot. I love dogs. I do not shoot dogs on a whim, in fact i've never shot a dog. I do not want to shoot a dog. I do not want to shoot a dog. I will shoot a dog to protect my dog, who is a good dog.


These days people are lawsuit happy. But going around spouting you will shoot a dog is bad enough.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Fact is, I would shoot the dog!! Most likely is, after he's reported, I won't ever see him again.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Nobody wins a lawsuit on private property in a dog shooting with witnesses here. I'd rather adopt the poor dog than shoot it!!! It just can't attack my dog with such bozo owners. Sorry. Not an option.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> Fact is, I would shoot the dog!! Most likely is, after he's reported, I won't ever see him again.


Wow. I would be more POed at the owner. I never think like this towards ANY dog. I would feel sorry for the dog. To me the dog wasn't DA, he was toy possessive. Molly is toy possessive, but we are sure not to have toys around when other dogs are around.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Besides just shaking my head in OMG disbelief.....I thought that I would mention one small fact.
IF those 2 dogs get into a physical altercation...and they are separated....and you CHOOSE to "shoot" or cause physical harm to the other animal..after the fact....you are breaking the law yourself. There are animal cruelty laws in every State.
Also...no matter what State you live in....discharging a fire arm in a public place, is also against the law....besides everything else morally wrong with that picture.....
Your dog got assaulted by another dog.....either don't go there when the other is present, or deal with the chance the same altercation can arise.....the end.
Human adults should act & think "less" like animals than their pets.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> Besides just shaking my head in OMG disbelief.....I thought that I would mention one small fact.
> IF those 2 dogs get into a physical altercation...and they are separated....and you CHOOSE to "shoot" or cause physical harm to the other animal..after the fact....you are breaking the law yourself. There are animal cruelty laws in every State.
> Also...no matter what State you live in....discharging a fire arm in a public place, is also against the law....besides everything else morally wrong with that picture.....
> Your dog got assaulted by another dog.....either don't go there when the other is present, or deal with the chance the same altercation can arise.....the end.
> Human adults should act & think "less" like animals than their pets.



I agree, even though its a private park its still public, other dog owners are there and I don't think the vet who owns would approve of shooting the dog or causing harm to the dog,, since he maybe the one taking care of the mess you made. 2 wrongs don't make a right.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

The dog is not going to get shot!! Not by me... unless he attacks Max again. What would you do, entice him away with a treat?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, since you asked,

First, I would talk to my friend the vet and discuss the situation and any scenarios that might happen. Like if the guy has been told he cannot bring the other dog, and does.

Second, I would take my dog there only if the other dog is not there and leave if the other dog comes. 

Lastly, 99.99% of people at dog parks are not toting handguns and do not shoot dogs for squabbling or attacking. If you DO stay there when the other dog is there, make sure there are not treats and no toys or stick being thrown that might cause a problem, and if that doesn't work and you do have a problem. Get them apart, and get the person's name and address and bring a civil suit, call AC, get a police report. 

In short do what all the rest of us accomplish without firearms. 

BTW, I have NOTHING against guns or conceal carry, BUT these should be used for serious issues where someone or something is trying to KILL YOU.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> The dog is not going to get shot!! Not by me... unless he attacks Max again. What would you do, entice him away with a treat?


Get him out of there. Since you said the dog is banned, you don't have to worry about your dog being attacked. If you have such a big issues and fear the dog may come back, go talk to the vet that owns the place.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

The dog, "Joe" was in the "Red Zone" Killing was what he was moving towards. You had to be there! He had a 4 1/2 month old knocked to the ground and was unable to respond to any attempt to get him to stop. He was trying to rip Max' throat out!! I've dealt with terminally aggressive dogs. Joe should be kept at home with his owners.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm very sorry this happened to you and Max. I hope he doesn't develope behavioral issues because of it. 

The exact same thing has happened to my GSD (10 months now, was 6 and 8 months) twice where he was attacked, pinned, bitten, but with no puncture, and was thoroughly scared. Now he's very reactive since the first attack, which was by a GSD, the second was a pitbull. 

I hope Max remembers and becomes very protective of you, and that nothing bad comes from this other than anger and being upset.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> The dog, "Joe" was in the "Red Zone" Killing was what he was moving towards. You had to be there! He had a 4 1/2 month old knocked to the ground and was unable to respond to any attempt to get him to stop. He was trying to rip Max' throat out!! I've dealt with terminally aggressive dogs. Joe should be kept at home with his owners.


I don't think this dog was terminally aggressive. He was still young, got mixed responses from his owners, poorly trained and poorly socialized, and toy possessive. His behavior can be fixed. If his owners really want to come back to the dog park, then they need to take their dog to a trainer and fix his problems.

I think to prevent this from happening is to talk to the vet in having dogs that go to this park show proof of OB training and such. I don't if thats possible. Thats what I would do. I save killing or ethunization as a last resort.

I work at a shelter, I deal with aggressive dogs of all sorts. I have dealt dogs who physically and verbally abused to the point they will attack, and its worse than toy possession.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> Well, since you asked,
> 
> First, I would talk to my friend the vet and discuss the situation and any scenarios that might happen. Like if the guy has been told he cannot bring the other dog, and does.
> 
> ...


I don't "tote" handguns (keep one in the car) and I've never shot a dog (or anyone else!!!) in my life. I'm 51 yrs old and haven't been cruel or mean in my life. This situation would not get the slightest response from the police (my dog was attacked at a private dog park!!! Oh my!!) unless someone was killed or severely injured.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Realizing your situation is what it is and that you are not gun crazy dog park dude! It sounds to me like you have it all well in hand. Right after it happens a person can be right hyped up! I know.

But, in a situation away from this one, I am not going to stand by and let my dog get killed. When I lived out in the rural area the neighbor dogs would attack my dog on my property. I called the sheriff and was told in no uncertain terms...shoot them if the dogs come over and attack and don't call us about it again. I also have never and would not ever want to shoot a dog. But if mine were being killed... whatever it takes.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

But if Max was attacked by a "red zone" dog, I guess that you and he were just extremely lucky that there was no blood or puncture marks or ripped skin at all. At least I think that is what you said above about you and Max's result. I wish that I had been that fortunate last time I got bitten.

That was just great that Max, and you also of course, came out of it so well when you were both attacked by such a dog as Joe! And that Max seems to have had no lasting mental impact.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Glad Max is OK! And so you!

You should report that dog for sure. That kind of people shouldn't be allowed to go in dog parks....they are danger.

They are irresponsible owners! Petting a dog after an attack, wow, what an awesome idea!!! He don not understand (obviously) the "Oh, you are a bad dog Joe"...come'on, it's a dog, do something! They can't understand our language! The only thing he did understand form that situation his: i) I can be territorial ii) I can attack other dogs if I want iii) I do not have any instructions on how I should act iv) I'm getting pet after an attack.

People are idiot sometime....sorry, this make me so mad because we leaved the exact samething....In our case, the City and the police did nothing....people told the guy that if he comes here again, he will have serious problems with other guys inhere and they will take is dog.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

IMHO, it would be a very big improvement on most dog parks if they had a "no toys" rule, because toys can so easily become grounds for a fight at the park. Some dogs are possessive of their toys. Some dogs are very drivey for their toys. It's just not a good combination if there are other dogs in the park, although if you're the ONLY person and dog there, it's certainly nice to have a ball to throw and play with.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

AbbyK9 said:


> IMHO, it would be a very big improvement on most dog parks if they had a "no toys" rule, because toys can so easily become grounds for a fight at the park. Some dogs are possessive of their toys. Some dogs are very drivey for their toys. It's just not a good combination if there are other dogs in the park, although if you're the ONLY person and dog there, it's certainly nice to have a ball to throw and play with.


Excellent point.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

The dog park we used to go to had those things you can throw tennis balls out of. Well many fights broke out because of the balls. I remember once these 2 dogs broke out into a fight(not a big one) over a ball and Tanner went over there and let out one bark and that was it. Both dogs stopped fighting and went on their ways. 

Tanner was the new sheriff in town.=D


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I just returned from the vet's office and Joe is officially banned from the park. They simply turned off the owners ability to use the pass code they were given to enter the locked gate.


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

well, the Joe issue is resolved. glad it turned out well.

*just realized I started and ended with the same word.... is that a grammar no no ???


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Relayer said:


> I just returned from the vet's office and Joe is officially banned from the park. They simply turned off the owners ability to use the pass code they were given to enter the locked gate.


That's good news!!!


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Relayer said:


> I just returned from the vet's office and Joe is officially banned from the park. They simply turned off the owners ability to use the pass code they were given to enter the locked gate.


A shame somebody didn't have a video camera, to catch the look on his face the first time he tried to get in and couldn't.


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## Grissom (Jan 7, 2010)

After reading this thread I only have one comment. As a teacher there are many times I have thought that some parents should not have children. As a dog owner I feel the same. If that had happened to Grissom I would have been out of my mind! Poor baby! The way you described the "bad owner's demeanor" is like the parent who starts counting 1...2....3...to get their child to stop bad behavior and the next thing you know you are hearing 89...90....91! Good grief! Glad your baby is doing well.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Well... News Flash!! We were just at the park and after about 1/2 hour guess who shows up??? Joe and his idiotic owner! He's released immediately off leash and runs out to bark at a bunch of other dogs. I naturally leashed Max and we left right away, but not without stopping at the office and asking why he was still getting in. The night manager looked the owner up on computer and it turns out that they don't even have a membership anymore. Theirs expired like 8 months ago. So they are evidently using a stick and putting it through the fence to push the exit button so they can get in!! I waited there until I physically saw the night manager and another employee marching over to the park to deal with it. Sheeesh!!!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Grissom said:


> After reading this thread I only have one comment. As a teacher there are many times I have thought that some parents should not have children. As a dog owner I feel the same. If that had happened to Grissom I would have been out of my mind! Poor baby! The way you described the "bad owner's demeanor" is like the parent who starts counting 1...2....3...to get their child to stop bad behavior and the next thing you know you are hearing 89...90....91! Good grief! Glad your baby is doing well.


Thanks! You're right on the money! And, they are basically thieves too, because while the rest of us pay to be there, they bring their menace and cheat their way in.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> Well... News Flash!! We were just at the park and after about 1/2 hour guess who shows up??? Joe and his idiotic owner! He's released immediately off leash and runs out to bark at a bunch of other dogs. I naturally leashed Max and we left right away, but not without stopping at the office and asking why he was still getting in. The night manager looked the owner up on computer and it turns out that they don't even have a membership anymore. Theirs expired like 8 months ago. So they are evidently using a stick and putting it through the fence to push the exit button so they can get in!! I waited there until I physically saw the night manager and another employee marching over to the park to deal with it. Sheeesh!!!


Which owner? The girl or the husband? And what did they do?


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Which owner? The girl or the husband? And what did they do?


The ridiculous husband. I don't know what happened because I left it to the vet's manager to deal with. I know myself too well and split, because I would have lost my temper and said things I would regret.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Relayer said:


> The ridiculous husband. I don't know what happened because I left it to the vet's manager to deal with. I know myself too well and split, because I would have lost my temper and said things I would regret.


That probably would have turned out just lovely.... not!


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

who is that desperate to break into a dog park? really? 

at least you know you don't have to pay your membership to actually use the park... apparently they don't check.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

StellaSquash said:


> who is that desperate to break into a dog park? really?
> 
> at least you know you don't have to pay your membership to actually use the park... apparently they don't check.


LOL... I pay my membership because the vet that owns the park is a good guy and the park is very well maintained. I know it costs him more than he makes on it. But that's just me... I have some ethics. Who indeed, is that desperate??


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

That is ridiculous. Maybe someone needs to ask them how much they can pay in a lawsuit.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> That is ridiculous. Maybe someone needs to ask them how much they can pay in a lawsuit.


Yeah, and you can pee into the wind too. Those owners are clearly as clueless as can be. Can you imagine, not only bringing a problem dog into the situation, but then he attacks a puppy, then the very next day they "break into" the park again as if nothing happened! Holy moly!!! Boggles the mind.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

They shouldn't have a dog period.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Relayer said:


> Yeah, and you can pee into the wind too. Those owners are clearly as clueless as can be. Can you imagine, not only bringing a problem dog into the situation, but then he attacks a puppy, then the very next day they "break into" the park again as if nothing happened! Holy moly!!! Boggles the mind.


True..very true...but I think I'll pass on that whole pee into the wind thing! 

So what are the owners going to have to do to keep them out? Post a watch all the time? Change where the exit button is so they can't access it that way? Call the police for trespassing? That is probably their best bet.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> True..very true...but I think I'll pass on that whole pee into the wind thing!
> 
> So what are the owners going to have to do to keep them out? Post a watch all the time? Change where the exit button is so they can't access it that way? Call the police for trespassing? That is probably their best bet.


Get a new security system or lock system.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Mind boggling!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

OK... we shant pee into the wind.  I wouldn't doubt that they might change the location of the exit button. The people at the vet's office were pretty shocked about that part. Can you imagine, they actually thought people would be honorable? I won't be so quiet and leave if I ever those people there again.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ask the owner to call the police if he is trespassing. 

I had a dog next door to me for about two years that would charge my dogs every time I tried to get them into my car. 

The dog was a pit mix, and it made me nervous that if this dog did get to my dogs it would not be pretty. 

I called our dog warden, he came and talked to the owner, but did nothing. I called and called and called. I called the sherriff's department, yeah I live in the country. But there is a leash law in the state of Ohio. 

Anyway, the sherriff did tell me to shoot the dog IF it was charging me. I asked what if it was charging my dog. They would not agree that that would be ok. So there is very much a difference in law whether you are in danger or your dog is in danger. 

Finally the lady lost her home and moved. Luckily she took the dogs with her. Sad really, bunch of kids, dogs, etc. But I am not sorry the dog is not living there now. 

I could get my dogs in the car, but no way could I weild a shot gun and hold a leash and shoot the dog without shooting toward their trailer and possibly their little kids. It was not a possibility for me. 

Hope your scenario ends without anyone getting ugly.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Selzer, I'm not 100% sure how it is in OH, but in WV, yes would have been able to shoot them. It goes under "harassing livestock" You are merely protecting your property.


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

if you're standing right next to your dog... how are you to know whether the dog is charging you or your dog.. I say assume it's you and act accordingly. 

in either case, here in Maryland we also have the harassing livestock code and I can shoot to kill on my property. which I would do if a vicious dog is charging in mine or my dogs general direction. 

I make sure to practice my gun skills too.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I would never want to have to actually shoot a dog. If my dog is being charged by an aggressor, I'm forced to protect and therefore, I'm also under attack. Here central FL, as long as one is on private property, you can pretty much do whatever you need to gun-wise. Hopefully things never get to the point where anyone needs to use that kind of force.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not sure in Ohio. For one thing the dog and kennel fund is actually set up for livestock that is killed by dogs, farmers can be recompensed. Dogs killing chickens and worrying goats, sheep, cattle or horses, are shot and it is expected. But dogs attacking other dogs seems to be a grey area.

Still, my driveway is only a couple of yards away from my neighbor's property. And a blast from my shotgun pointed toward their dog would most likely go right toward their trailer. I could not do it. Just like shooting across a road. For me, it would be terribly irresponsible. Especially since I could probably achieve the same goal with pepper spray, and it would not kill their dog. I could access the pepper spray a lot easier than hefting the gun to shoulder height and could do it while managing my own dog. 

Shooting the dog would end the problem. True. But I do not believe that dogs are responsible for their actions. I believe that people are responsible for the dogs they own. If they have a dog that is simply aggressive toward other dogs, they need to contain it and are at fault if the dog gets loose and attacks, or if they allow the dog to run loose and it attacks. In any case, shooting a dog would give me no satisfaction whatsoever. Shooting the person responsible would put me in prison, so for me, I will find a better method of dealing with the problem.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Relayer said:


> I would never want to have to actually shoot a dog. If my dog is being charged by an aggressor, I'm forced to protect and therefore, I'm also under attack. Here central FL, as long as one is on private property, you can pretty much do whatever you need to gun-wise. Hopefully things never get to the point where anyone needs to use that kind of force.


I still don't understand how you're going to shoot the dog if you're keeping your gun in your car.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I still don't understand how you're going to shoot the dog if you're keeping your gun in your car.


I'm NOT actually planning to shoot any dog!!!!!! I LOVE dogs! I said that if the dog attacks my dog after plenty of warning, I'd do it. If you want the scenario mapped out: My dog gets a threat from the other dog. I tell the owner to control the dog, because I won't experience that again and that if he won't leash his dog and remove it, I'll go to my car, get my gun, come back and wait till an attack happens. I could legally just have it on my belt, in my pocket or down my pants, but that's not my style. All I really want and wanted is for the offender to be banned and it appears that has happened. The end.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Relayer said:


> I'm NOT actually planning to shoot any dog!!!!!! I LOVE dogs! I said that if the dog attacks my dog after plenty of warning, I'd do it. If you want the scenario mapped out: My dog gets a threat from the other dog. I tell the owner to control the dog, because I won't experience that again and that if he won't leash his dog and remove it, I'll go to my car, get my gun, come back and wait till an attack happens. I could legally just have it on my belt, in my pocket or down my pants, but that's not my style. All I really want and wanted is for the offender to be banned and it appears that has happened. The end.


Makes sense to me! 

I don't carry a gun, just a small club if I am walking in a place where there are way too many unleashed dogs (and stupid owners!). I would have no problem whacking a dog that attacks my dog. It would definetly be 2 against 1 in that case of attack.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Makes sense to me!
> 
> I don't carry a gun, just a small club if I am walking in a place where there are way too many unleashed dogs (and stupid owners!). I would have no problem whacking a dog that attacks my dog. It would definetly be 2 against 1 in that case of attack.


Thank you. Very simple stuff.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Relayer said:


> I'm NOT actually planning to shoot any dog!!!!!! I LOVE dogs! I said that if the dog attacks my dog after plenty of warning, I'd do it. If you want the scenario mapped out: My dog gets a threat from the other dog. I tell the owner to control the dog, because I won't experience that again and that if he won't leash his dog and remove it, I'll go to my car, get my gun, come back and wait till an attack happens. I could legally just have it on my belt, in my pocket or down my pants, but that's not my style. All I really want and wanted is for the offender to be banned and it appears that has happened. The end.


I realize you're not planning it, but you have the thought to do it if you think you need to, which is still dumb in all aspects. Obviously the person was banned but is still coming so you do still have to worry about that. 

So you're going to stand there and yell at the owner and hope that the dog doesn't attack yours again instead of just removing your dog from the whole situation and leaving as soon as Joe gets there? And you're going to go to your car, leave your puppy unattended to be mauled to death after the offended has done threatening, so that you can get a gun and illegally kill someone elses dog and probably injure or kill yours in the process?

This just boggles my mind coming from someone who is so dead set on protecting their dog. You're theorizing the exact opposite. You're setting him up to be hurt again.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I realize you're not planning it, but you have the thought to do it if you think you need to, which is still dumb in all aspects. Obviously the person was banned but is still coming so you do still have to worry about that.
> 
> So you're going to stand there and yell at the owner and hope that the dog doesn't attack yours again instead of just removing your dog from the whole situation and leaving as soon as Joe gets there? And you're going to go to your car, leave your puppy unattended to be mauled to death after the offended has done threatening, so that you can get a gun and illegally kill someone elses dog and probably injure or kill yours in the process?
> 
> This just boggles my mind coming from someone who is so dead set on protecting their dog. You're theorizing the exact opposite. You're setting him up to be hurt again.


Joe's been banned. No issue anymore.


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

Relayer said:


> Joe's been banned. No issue anymore.


unless they use the stick to the entry button again. 

nevermind, just saw where the passcode is banned. 

I'm actually intrigued by this couple and wonder what shenanigans they'll get up to next time. this must be one kick ass dog park, that they'd resort to such nonsense. do keep us posted!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

StellaSquash said:


> unless they use the stick to the entry button again.
> 
> nevermind, just saw where the passcode is banned.
> 
> I'm actually intrigued by this couple and wonder what shenanigans they'll get up to next time. this must be one kick ass dog park, that they'd resort to such nonsense. do keep us posted!


Kick ass dog park!!! LOL It's very nice, but I think the main issue is that it's the only one in this town. That couple was probably pretty embarrassed (if it's possible to embarrass them!) when they got "busted" in there with no membership, plus the problem dog. They do have nerve, but I really doubt they'll be back.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Glad your boy is ok.

This is one **** of a story!


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## StellaSquash (Apr 22, 2010)

in the event he does return... might I suggest: Claymore


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

see, now that's funny... sorry


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

StellaSquash said:


> in the event he does return... might I suggest: Claymore


 Eek!!!!


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## Cherry314 (Jul 21, 2010)

*There is always one in the bunch*

I have had to deal with people that think that the rules don't apply to them as it seems that Joe's people are. As far as them being embarrassed. I doubt it. Glad your dog park got it all straightened out for everyone's sake. :thumbup:


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

I know this is an old post.. but... I agree with Relayer. 

When Cullen was way younger, we went into Petsmart sizing up for a new collar and leash combo... and he got attacked by a boxer. The owner says " OMG, I hate when he DOES that.. he is SOOOO dog aggressive" and it set me off. I proceeded to curse at the lady to leave, all the while holding Cullen and looking over him.. and he was SCREAMING.. that Boxer grabbed him by his HEAD! The Petsmart employees came over and instructed ME to leave... and I told them that they were outta their flipping minds, and asked WHY a woman with a KNOWN aggressive dog is in a pet store? 

Needless to say, the woman got a bit unruly, and I threw a punch which was blocked by an employee, and then THEY took Cullen to Banfield for FREE ( they paid) for a complete exam to make sure he was OK...


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

VaBeachFamily said:


> I know this is an old post.. but... I agree with Relayer.
> 
> When Cullen was way younger, we went into Petsmart sizing up for a new collar and leash combo... and he got attacked by a boxer. The owner says " OMG, I hate when he DOES that.. he is SOOOO dog aggressive" and it set me off. I proceeded to curse at the lady to leave, all the while holding Cullen and looking over him.. and he was SCREAMING.. that Boxer grabbed him by his HEAD! The Petsmart employees came over and instructed ME to leave... and I told them that they were outta their flipping minds, and asked WHY a woman with a KNOWN aggressive dog is in a pet store?
> 
> Needless to say, the woman got a bit unruly, and I threw a punch which was blocked by an employee, and then THEY took Cullen to Banfield for FREE ( they paid) for a complete exam to make sure he was OK...


Some dog owners are worse than soccer parents!!  The "kid" can do no wrong.


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