# GSD and Coyotes (or other preds)



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I live in a small community west of Toronto. Maybe 30,000 people in the whole area.
Lots of ravines and streams and farm country around, yet minutes to several larger cities of 150,000 - 500,000 but still lots of land between us and them. I have a 6 year old male GSD and now a 7 month old male and we spend a lot of leisure time in the woods with God and nature.

We were on the edge of town with nothing but a few hundred acres of woods and farmer's field, trees and ravines between us and the next city.

Our property is about 5 acres, heavily mature treed, ravine, small creek and natural 20 foot waterfall; Heaven for kids and dogs. Even on the edge of town, we also had plenty of deer, turkeys, squirrels, rabbits, foxes, the odd skunk .... and coyotes. They have always been in the ravines, you'd see them on golf courses occasionally and hear them in the woods at night.

A few years ago, those 200 acres next door became the beginning of 2000 houses, plazas and apartment buildings....but the ravines and creek and protected "wildlife corridors" remained. We still see the deer and foxes and if you know anything about coyotes, we sure still see them, bold and much more in the open. They adapt quickly to human neighbors and learn to take advantage of dog or cat food left out, garbage at the curb etc. And you need to keep an eye out for your small pets and young kids.

I'll tell you more about my dogs and coyote stories later but what's your experience with GSD and yotes? Wolves, bears, bobcats?

Let's hear your wildlife stories. Don't get me started about skunks!


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Snakes ok? As a youngster, Nitro found an eastern brown snake (I'm in Australia) in our back yard when I let him outside. Their venom is ranked as the second most toxic of any land snake in the world. He went in to attack it, thankfully he happened to have his ecollar on at the time. Nitro got 2 highest setting stims. The stims interrupted his attack and saved his life, and the snake got away. He would not have survived the trip to the vet. I hated doing it, but under the circumstances, it was the right thing to do.

In nesting season, we have birds that dive bomb to protect their nest. Nitro has been targeted a lot by masked lapwings, (spur winged plovers), which he now recognises and would like to 'interview' up close and personal.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bud and Sabs would both challenge any predator, and needed to be watched. Lex was forever trying to run away with the coyotes. Shadow, oddly enough is very spooked by predators and on the occasions they have been in close proximity she is skittish and stays near. Were she to get loose I suspect she would run. The night the coyotes moved in really close, she was frantic and hiccupping all night.
On the outskirts of Calgary, while walking Lex and Sabs, we were targeted by a pack of coyotes, coy dogs and feral dogs .About eight or nine total. For very different reasons it was a struggle to get the girls back to the truck and safety. Lex was very interested in joining them and Sabi was fairly determined to chase them off. By the time we got to the truck they were only about 10 feet away and my yelling was doing nothing. I wrestled both girls into the truck, no small feat and by the time I got Sabi in I realized I would have to crawl over the girls as I no longer had the option of walking around to the drivers side. The one dog was less then 6 feet away.
I was out in a wildlife preserve with Bud, Sabs and Shadow. Sabi went after something and I grabbed her and brought her back. The smell said bear, so not her most intelligent decision and crashing and snorting not very far away at all. I tossed Sabs in the van along with the cooler and the stove, grabbed Shadow and tossed her in and then went for Bud. I always left Sabi loose, and staked Shadow between Bud and the vehicle. He really didn't need much convincing to get in but wouldn't get in before me. Loved that dog. We sat in the van and watched a (thankfully) young Griz investigate the dog tie outs before moving along.
Shadow and I had a close encounter with a bear last year. Fortunately Shadow gave me enough warning that we were able to respect its space and get heck out of there.
In Cochrane I think we encountered a cat, since the growling was up a tree. Shadow was not amused and panicked long before I clued in.
I can say though that oddly she seems most afraid of coyotes, not sure what to make of that.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Given the opportunity Ziva will chase critters. She will chase deer if allowed. Funny thing is she isn't always very situationally aware. On a leash walk one evening when she maybe 2 in a very suburban area a deer decided to pop out and stroll down the sidewalk behind us. I saw the deer. Ziva did not for a good 100 ft or so. Didn't smell it either as I'm guessing the deer was down wind. When she finally realized we were being followed by a deer she tried to chase it but darn ole me with the leash prevented her from doing so. 
Recently Ziva was out in the front yard with my husband. She was laying on the lawn and he was at the end of the drive about 30 away. It was about 5 pm and a red fox was just strolling down the street right past our yard. Ziva never saw it, smelled it or reacted. Maybe 10 minutes later she bolted up and blindly ran full speed out of the yard across our street, thru the neighbors yard, they other neighbors yard to chase a bunny. Like I said no situational awareness. 
Coyotes? Never have seen one where we live. I've seen reports of them in wooded parts of the city but not anywhere we go. Not sure what Ziva's reaction would be. I suppose it would depend on if it's daylight or dark.
To be honest I feel like Ziva is a bit night blind. She acts totally different on walks after the sun sets. She stays super close and to me seems a bit scarred. She will bark/ growl at shadowy things on night walks at night. And by shadowy things I mean tree stumps, lawn ornaments and trash bags. Things she would pay no attention to in daylight and all things she has seen many times in the neighborhood. So if she ever met up with a coyote I'm guessing she would be running for home dragging me along the whole way.


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## Cadfael (Jun 17, 2020)

Grew up on a farm in North Central Oklahoma. Throughout growing up had all sorts of dogs, there were always three or four running around at a given time. No GSDs, which is another story. Occasionally a coyote would come around, and all the dogs would team up on him. I think it must instinctual somehow, but over the years different sets of dogs would do the same thing when coyotes, skunks, or snakes would come around.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We have no venomous snakes around here at all, now an again we see little harmless Garter snakes and both my dogs like to harass them. We have a cottage where venomous rattlesnakes are around in theory but we see one every 20 years. I am not a fan of snakes at all....



Dunkirk said:


> Snakes ok? As a youngster, Nitro found an eastern brown snake (I'm in Australia) in our back yard when I let him outside. Their venom is ranked as the second most toxic of any land snake in the world. He went in to attack it, thankfully he happened to have his ecollar on at the time. Nitro got 2 highest setting stims. The stims interrupted his attack and saved his life, and the snake got away. He would not have survived the trip to the vet. I hated doing it, but under the circumstances, it was the right thing to do.
> 
> In nesting season, we have birds that dive bomb to protect their nest. Nitro has been targeted a lot by masked lapwings, (spur winged plovers), which he now recognises and would like to 'interview' up close and personal.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

We have coyotes who live in a deep wooded ravine that tracks along the back of the neighborhood. They have taken one small dog and a cat, that I know about. The crazy thing is, our house is close enough to downtown that we can hear fireworks and other noise from the ball stadium when the conditions are right. 

While my wife was taking our female pup, then about 7 months, her out for a potty stop before bed, the pup alerted to one in the neighbor's yard. Her hackles went up and she barked like crazy and tugged at her leash trying to get after it. The coyote left the street. There for a while, we were seeing them pretty frequently. With COVID, there is a lot more foot traffic on this rails to trails walking path that crosses their ravine. So whether they have been spooked by more people around, or they finished raising their pups and moved on, or for whatever reason, we are not seeing them around as much lately. But I expect they may still be around, or may return to den when it is mating season. 

The version I heard of the little dog being taken was that he was out in his yard, off leash, as he often was, with no fence, either electric or conventional. He apparently chased a coyote down into the ravine, which his own yard backs up toward. His owner heard commotion down in the ravine, and suspects one coyote led him back toward their den where they killed him. She actually went down in the ravine and found his remains. The cat got taken on the opposite side of the same street, one block over from me. We have seen a pair running together in the vicinity, and we have heard what sounded like pups. 

Even a big shepherd is not fairly matched against several adult coyotes.So we keep a good hold on the leash when she's taking her last nightly walk. 

Other interesting developments--when the coyotes showed up, two foxes we had often seen disappeared. I hope they just bugged out when they detected coyotes. 
And we saw far fewer rabbits. 

My female pup also treed a raccoon one morning. No poisonous snakes around here either, supposedly. Copperheads and some rattlesnakes live in other parts of the state, but I've not seen any around here.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Squidwardp said:


> We have coyotes who live in a deep wooded ravine that tracks along the back of the neighborhood. They have taken one small dog and a cat, that I know about.


We had a coyote try to grab a small dog that was still on the leash a few years ago. Lady was able to pull her dog away but it was hurt and scared. If she had let go that pup would have been 100 yards down the trail in a flash.

6 years ago I was on a last 11:00 walk down our dead end road towards the only two neighbors with my 12 week old GSD pup (my current older dog). We have no street lights here and it was pitch black, couldn't see a thing. Pup backed up into me and I see the neighbors motion light come on and a coyote was staring right at my puppy no more than 30 feet away. It made me carry a flashlight ever since.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Squidwardp said:


> Even a big shepherd is not fairly matched against several adult coyotes.


This I'll disagree with as a generality. Coyotes are small in this area (unless you have coy-dogs) and opportunistic hunters among humans. They don't want any part of a full size Alpha dog even if they outnumber it.

My dog HATES coyotes and it's a natural thing. We can cross deer and fox and rabbit and squirrel tracks and all he does is get interested or excited depending on how fresh they are. 

But one whiff of coyote and his hackles go up and he starts growling and tries to run down the scent. I have no problem letting him run forward 50 yards if he's in sight.

We make it a habit when we see them of running them off. As long as I can see them, he can chase it within a reasonable distance. I mentioned before he has excellent recall and will break back on a dime when chasing them or a squirrel or rabbit even if he's close to them or gaining etc.

I think it's important they know who the Alpha is that owns the area around my property (me!) and we protect it. I have followed them for hundreds of yards before with them constantly looking over their shoulders at me as I escort them out of my "hunting range". They are curious and respectful but not afraid of me.

Did I mention, I'm 6' 230 pounds and carry a stout 5' walking stick and a hunting knife on my belt?


Several times my dog has been quite a bit straight in front of me and I'll see 3 coyotes off the trail to the left. They're not looking at me, they're looking at him. When I call him back and he turns around, they bolt every single time.

Coyotes here are more like foxes then wolves. When my 7 month old hits maturity and 100 pounds, I have no fear of a few 50 pound coyotes....skunks are a different animal lol

PS 
A friend of mine has two large outside (farm ) GSD. His one has run down and killed at least three coyotes that I know of, one time starting 100 yards behind. Run, catch, barrel roll it, break neck, come back panting and smiling. Those coyotes will still come in skulking around the barn at night.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> This I'll disagree with as a generality. Coyotes are small in this area (unless you have coy-dogs) and opportunistic hunters among humans. They don't want any part of a full size Alpha dog even if they outnumber it.
> 
> My dog HATES coyotes and it's a natural thing. We can cross deer and fox and rabbit and squirrel tracks and all he does is get interested or excited depending on how fresh they are.


Not always a natural thing to dislike coyotes and a lone GSD against a pack of coyotes is going to be on the losing end of that battle. Plenty of dogs do get lured away by "friendly" coyotes never to get seen again and they aren't always small dogs. I live in Montana in a rural area. I know LGDs and such can kill coyotes but other dogs aren't always so lucky. I've seen 3 foxes group up to chase mule deer once, there was an injured deer in the bunch but so I'm not going to be surprised by a pack of coyotes taking on a lone domestic dog. I know a guy with a good size GSD out in the country, his dog gets put inside when they coyotes start calling and his dog gets interested because he knows the risks.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

One on one, an adult shepherd easily has the upper hand against coyotes. Coyote hybrids are a different story. Coyotes can be found in packs, usually a breeding pair and done yearlings from the previous breeding season. Together, they can definitely take down a shepherd. Coyotes usually avoid contact with people entirely, but become quit bold around dogs. Dogs don’t hate them naturally. Territorial, dominant, or dog aggressive dogs will be more likely to aggressively confront them. When I was out walking bear one night when he was young, we ran into a coyote. The coyote looked to be trying to lure us away with play bows and such. Bear being a puppy, fell for it hook line and sinker, luckily he was leashed. It followed us as we walked away until I threw a rock at it. After that I carried a BB gun in our late night walks. The sound was enough to keep them away. Older bear is a lot more territorial, so it wouldn’t be as much of an issue if we still lived there. I would see them in our gated apartment complex all the time.


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

There are coyotes around this agricultural area but in 45 years I've only seen 2...both while bow hunting in a static position. 

A few weeks back while continually backing into a swale hole with the brush hog I noticed a smaller coyote at the end of the ditch jumping up and down and doing a play bow. (First glance I thought it was saint) it didn't register; you see saint always keeps me company when I'm out working cutting grass but he mostly lays down in the shade and watches.

It finally dawned on me that this smaller coyote was trying to lure saint into the swamp to ambush him with a bunch of his varmint comrades.

Saint was fortunate he was laying down with the higher uncut grass blocking his sight of the coyote. Anyway I got out of there an returned to the house to think this incident through.

I heard of coyotes killing pet dogs but Saint is a large dog so I was surprised.

Since then I'm more vigilant, yes I still let saint lose off leash to keep me company, he likes it and I enjoy his companionship.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

I would agree a large Shepherd probably can get the better of a single coyote, and even two would probably rather not tangle with a GSD sized dog.
But in Ohio, the coyotes run larger than western coyotes I've seen in California, other parts of the west, and "stuffed" in exhibits at sporting goods stores. 
Of course I don't get an accurate weight on them, and they might be smaller boned or lighter boned than a GSD, but the ones I've had a pretty good look at are about the size of an average GSD female. 

I would not have believed the luring and ambush stories, but there is a youtube of a large male Doberman and several coyotes. I would link to it, but I'm too lazy this AM.
Anyway, the Dobe would run one coyote down a trail a ways, then others would pop their heads out of the brush. The owner got his dog to halt, and they had kind off a standoff. The coyotes would not rush the Dobe, but neither did they run away. There seemed to be at least three, and two of them kept maneuvering in and out of the brush. Finally the owner called his dog back. It was offleash, and obviously had pretty good recall. I don't recall every bit of footage, but I think there were a couple of what could be seen as "play bows" to entice the Dobe to chase. 

I'd agree the typical adult GSD, especially a male, would be more of a physical specimen than a coyote. Probably half again its weight, or more. But the coyote is wild, used to having to fight and kill things to survive, uninhibited about biting to seriously injure or disable something. I wouldn't want to chance it. Coyote, like a guerrilla who lives and fights in the jungle, can break off the engagement whenever he/she feels threatened. Unless it foolishly squared off with a bigger dog one on one and got pinned, which doesn't seem to happen too often.
I've heard Anatolian Shepherds actually take on not just coyotes but wolves. But I've also heard they might take on any random dog that comes along, and maybe your neighbor too if they took them as a threat to the herd.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Tim S Adams on this site posted a link to a cat in California--yes, a domestic house cat---who stood down several coyotes on his back porch.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Kazel said:


> Not always a natural thing to dislike coyotes and a lone GSD against a pack of coyotes is going to be on the losing end of that battle. Plenty of dogs do get lured away by "friendly" coyotes never to get seen again and they aren't always small dogs. I live in Montana in a rural area. I know LGDs and such can kill coyotes but other dogs aren't always so lucky. I've seen 3 foxes group up to chase mule deer once, there was an injured deer in the bunch but so I'm not going to be surprised by a pack of coyotes taking on a lone domestic dog. I know a guy with a good size GSD out in the country, his dog gets put inside when they coyotes start calling and his dog gets interested because he knows the risks.


A dog being "lured" away is quite common and I don't leave my dogs outside with them either but that's not what I'm talking about at all. It's often a coyote appearing to be friendly and making playful advances or one in heat that wants to lure a dog into the woods where it can be occasionally accepted into the pack cross breed (or be attacked). My neighbour had one try to "play" with her Siberian Husky last Winter in her year just outside the treeline and that's a totally different situation.

Her neighbor has at least 6 bird feeders (what I call squirrel feeding stations) and coyotes just lay in the long grass waiting for the squirrels to head back to the woods. There's often a dozen squirrels in her yard/on her deck creating a squirrel smorgasbord for predators. Hawks love her yard too!

But from my experience with a lot of coyotes (I see them at least every week) and several different Alpha GSD (mine and friends), no 2-3 coyotes (not sure what you consider a "pack" but I have never seen more than 3 together around here) wants to get anywhere near an 80-100 male Alpha GSD. They run and they run immediately. A Golden Doodle is not an Alpha GSD....

Coyotes are omnivores and want mice, voles, rabbits, berries, squirrels and other opportunistic meals like cats. Even rudimentary research will show you they prefer meals that don't fight back and they don't try to attack something that can kill them. Why would they? Taking down larger prey such as a deer can happen but also is rare(r)

Will they be interested in a soft smaller domestic dog? Sure
Will they normally look at a larger, Alpha GSD as a food source? Not a chance, it's the other way around 

PS
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. I love all wildlife in the area including deer, foxes and coyotes. I just want them to understand who's the top of the chain.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Squidwardp said:


> Tim S Adams on this site posted a link to a cat in California--yes, a domestic house cat---who stood down several coyotes on his back porch.


There's all kinds of video of cats staring down raccoons, snakes and bears too.





I'm more concerned of my dog cornering a **** than a coyote, I've seen the damage they can do close up. Still, my dogs tree ***** at least every week on our late evening final walk. Tons of trees mean the **** always trees before they can get to him and I think there's a mutual respect.

My dogs interest in ***** is similar to cats or squirrels; they lose interest as soon as they tree. Not the same with yotes.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

There is a big difference between staring down and fighting off. I guarantee you there are way more cats that don’t make it home because of coyotes than ones that successfully pull that off. A coyote approaching a cat or small dog is in prey. One the keys in canine prey response is movement. An animal that stands its ground and faces off can be pretty successful against canine predators, especially if it can protect its backside. A coyote looking at a medium sized dog or larger isn’t looking at it as prey. It’s seen as another predator, a competitor. This is why the response is vastly different. In a fight, wild or not, I doubt any dog is pulling punches against one. I don’t think that truly factors into who’s winning. Carnivore and herbivore doesn’t imply a diet of strictly one or the other. All canids are carnivores. Not obligate carnivores like cats, but carnivores none the less.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I'm wondering how many people have ever been close to a truly aggressive GSD, Rottie, Pit or Cane Corso for instance. Not your beautiful, calm, well trained, passive couch surfer .... An Alpha GSD in full on hackles-up-mode.

At least the ones we have around here, a couple coyotes ain't coming even close  I don't know why anyone would even question that.

Yotes never have to fight what they want to eat because they don't take down predators .... except for a teed off squirrel


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

We also live West of the GTA but in very large suburb with a wildlife corridor behind the house. Before we installed the fence, our GSD bolted out the back patio one day as I was watering the plants. At first I thought he was chasing deer then realized it was a coyote! It was so scary. He was chasing it and gave it a few bites. Hunter wasn’t altered at the time and I guess he wasn’t too happy to have anyone invade his territory. Much as he handled it, I was much more careful after as even a smaller coyote could cause injury to a larger GSD. It’s not worth risking injury to the dog to let him off leash if you know there’s coyotes around. Fence went in after and no more issues or worries. We also get more than one travelling together quite often so it’s lucky it was only one. We saw lots while walking on leash but they never bothered us. Just more curious. Owners with small dogs would walk the same path with their dogs off leash. Just crazy IMHO.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@cagal Wasn't out by Burlington or Hamilton a decent-sized doodle type dog mauled and killed on the Bruce Trail a few years ago? Though they're not particularly intimidating dogs, per @WNGD 's point.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

We have coyotes come from High Park (a block away) into the neighbourhood, plus see them in the park. We've seen them on the dog trails and right at the entrance to the park during the day with dozens of people walking past. 

Our beagle is tall for a beagle but still a shrimp (though not compared to a toy poodle) so we keep an eye out. Neb is probably coyote sized but we let him off-leash (unless someone says they just saw one) on the dog trails. Same with Agis, who is a shrimp for his mix but who is still biggest of all our boys. Nebbers though - he's had way bigger dogs go after him, and consistently finishes fights other dogs start. He has mellowed with age (12), so we prefer not to test that too much.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

jarn said:


> @cagal Wasn't out by Burlington or Hamilton a decent-sized doodle type dog mauled and killed on the Bruce Trail a few years ago? Though they're not particularly intimidating dogs, per @WNGD 's point.


Yes. I believe so. We also had at least one really small dog taken off a driveway here in Mississauga. I see lots in our area as we have a large wildlife corridor behind us. We also had a beaver a few years back on the little creek behind us. Glad we never ran into that - another dog owner told me they’re really vicious.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

cagal said:


> Yes. I believe so. We also had at least one really small dog taken off a driveway here in Mississauga. I see lots in our area as we have a large wildlife corridor behind us. We also had a beaver a few years back on the little creek behind us. Glad we never ran into that - another dog owner told me they’re really vicious.


Really! Whod've thought beavers would be!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> @cagal Wasn't out by Burlington or Hamilton a decent-sized doodle type dog mauled and killed on the Bruce Trail a few years ago? Though they're not particularly intimidating dogs, per @WNGD 's point.


I remember the story but not where exactly. The Bruce Trail is right out my back door (100 yards through the woods) so those are the same coyotes I see. Small, curious .... and scared of an Alpha GSD. My older male dog (small-ish 80 pounds) has run him/she/them off dozens of times. Always in my sight never an issue. 

They want nothing to do with an aggressive pizzed off Alpha GSD imo. And my older dog is the biggest suck with people you'd ever meet.

There was also video I think in Oakville of a coyote jumping a fence and going after a small dog in someone's yard. They'll even approach a small dog on a leash. and they take cats regularly if they can.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> I remember the story but not where exactly. The Bruce Trail is right out my back door (100 yards through the woods) so those are the same coyotes I see. Small, curious .... and scared of an Alpha GSD. My older male dog (small-ish 80 pounds) has run him/she/them off dozens of times. Always in my sight never an issue.
> 
> They want nothing to do with an aggressive pizzed off Alpha GSD imo. And my older dog is the biggest suck with people you'd ever meet.
> 
> There was also video I think in Oakville of a coyote jumping a fence and going after a small dog in someone's yard. They'll even approach a small dog on a leash. and they take cats regularly if they can.


Oh yeah my husband's family all lives in Oakville and they've had cats killed.

I had a friend up...King Township? way get surrounded a pack of coyotes with his viszla. Surprised me because it wasn't a small dog. That's a while back though.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> Oh yeah my husband's family all lives in Oakville and they've had cats killed.
> 
> I had a friend up...King Township? way get surrounded a pack of coyotes with his viszla. Surprised me because it wasn't a small dog. That's a while back though.


It's not just the size of the dog but it's attitude, demeanor and ability. Coyotes are smart and part of playing with dogs in yards is really sizing them up. 

A Viszla is not an Alpha dog but a Jack Russell Terrior will run off animals twice their size for instance. A dog that whimpers, runs away or tucks its tail will draw more interest. A barking, snarling, straining Alpha GSD will not, except an interest in running away from it


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

Pack dogs that hunt together will quickly disable a victim dog by biting into the back leg tendons...and that's all she wrote. The victim dog can't even retreat. Didn't even know what was happening.

Pack hunters are a menace to civilized society. 

There a very good reason why our grandparents, great caretakers of the land hunted wolves to extinction.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree that it's a good idea to hunt any animal to near extinction.Except possibly mosquitoes.....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

All predators are here for a reason and should be valued to help keep nature in balance. Without preds, rabbits, deer and mice populations for instance, skyrocket out of control

I have zero problems with coyotes and wolves are beautiful. Just stay out of my yard and away from my dogs please


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

I live in western Montana where we have a full suite of predators and big game (minus grizzly bears...yet). Willow hikes with me off-leash everywhere. She generally stays close. She will chase deer and squirrels when given the chance, but her obedience to "leave it" is very good (I've worked especially hard on that, for her and the wildlife's safety). I just have to catch her and say "leave it" before she goes into chase mode.

So far, we have come into close proximity to deer, moose, and, most recently, some very habituated mountain goats. The moose and goats scare me the most, obviously. But Willow has been very good, and generally I'm quick to put her on the leash as soon as we see the moose or goat, in case she decides to go for it unexpectedly.

Predator-wise, I do worry about wolves. They'll go after dogs because they see them as competition. Wolves frequently kill lion hounds (i.e. hound dogs used for mountain lion hunting in the winter). But those hounds range pretty far from their handlers in the course of a lion hunt, and since Willow keeps close, I guess I don't have much reason to worry; but it's on my mind.

Haven't run into any bears yet. And I think Willow's too big to be a temptation for a lion; lions generally run from wolf-sized dogs. Admittedly I use Willow as an early bear detection system; bears are stinky and if she smells one, I'll know and can prepare for a possible encounter (I think).

The kicker to all this, though, is that a sick animal won't respond the way they normally do. Rabies, distemper, other ailments among carnivores could lead to unpredictable behavior so it's important to be conscious of that possibility.

EDIT also I should add that coyotes aren't really an issue here, unless you have outdoor cats. One of the many benefits of bringing wolves back to an ecosystem is that they prey upon coyotes when given the chance, which instills some healthy fear into the coyote population and keeps their numbers down. 

I also have seen Willow go full-on hackles-up lunging at dogs that came into our yard and/or rushed at us during a walk. So I think she'd try to defend herself/me from a wild canid. Maybe. I hope never to know.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

When I go up north I definitely worry about wolves and moose too, @banzai555! I've seen moose far away with the dogs and we hustle out there. Luckily no close encounters.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Of all the animals I could encounter, moose are the only ones that scare me.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

@saintbob the tendon thing is true! After I called Hunter off the coyote kept trying to sneak in and bite at Hunter’s back leg. Hunter was on alert and kept checking back so the coyote never got close enough and basically Hunter kept warning him off. If Hunter had caught him close enough the coyote wouldn’t have stood a chance. I think he could have handled 2 possibly but no way could he handle 3. And Hunter was a big boy and very capable of defending himself. We had deer around but they would just run away. I was always worried when the bucks showed up though. They’re good with antlers to defend themselves.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I had a mink come charging out of the woods at me last week. Surpised, I screamed. It stopped, decided I was quite a bit larger and turned around. He was probably nose to tip of tail ONE foot long. Guess I showed him!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

There are 5 foxes that live on my property. Since I have poultry, it's a constant game of chess. 

It was easier living somewhere without them, but they're here. Early this morning one of them crapped on the milk delivery cooler that I left outside overnight. I used to keep some of my agility equipment outside, until the foxes started pooping in the entry of the tunnel. Territorial little devils. 

I'd rather deal with foxes and coyotes than mink. The only animal I'm ever pleased to see run over in the road around here are mink. There used to be a mink farm near here a few years ago, and escapees would find their way to my birds.... horrible. At least coyotes/foxes/hawks will kill something and consume it. I had a mink get into a bird pen once.... ripped off all the heads, necks torn up, whole dead bird bodies everywhere.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

banzai555 said:


> I live in western Montana where we have a full suite of predators and big game (minus grizzly bears...yet). Willow hikes with me off-leash everywhere. She generally stays close. She will chase deer and squirrels when given the chance, but her obedience to "leave it" is very good (I've worked especially hard on that, for her and the wildlife's safety). I just have to catch her and say "leave it" before she goes into chase mode.
> 
> So far, we have come into close proximity to deer, moose, and, most recently, some very habituated mountain goats. The moose and goats scare me the most, obviously. But Willow has been very good, and generally I'm quick to put her on the leash as soon as we see the moose or goat, in case she decides to go for it unexpectedly.
> 
> ...


Thats because they (bears) are all in N Idaho and NE Washington


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

WIBackpacker said:


> There are 5 foxes that live on my property. Since I have poultry, it's a constant game of chess.
> 
> It was easier living somewhere without them, but they're here. Early this morning one of them crapped on the milk delivery cooler that I left outside overnight. I used to keep some of my agility equipment outside, until the foxes started pooping in the entry of the tunnel. Territorial little devils.
> 
> I'd rather deal with foxes and coyotes than mink. The only animal I'm ever pleased to see run over in the road around here are mink. There used to be a mink farm near here a few years ago, and escapees would find their way to my birds.... horrible. At least coyotes/foxes/hawks will kill something and consume it. I had a mink get into a bird pen once.... ripped off all the heads, necks torn up, whole dead bird bodies everywhere.


We had a family of foxes den up in the ravine in front of my house for a few years in a row. The had no trouble showing off young kids when I was 50 yards away in plain view.

The male used to tease my last female GSD regularly and Mom would come right through the yards to see if my girl was on the porch before bringing the kits through 10 minutes later.

When the coyotes arrived in the area more frequently, the foxes moved on from denning around here.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

banzai555 said:


> I live in western Montana where we have a full suite of predators and big game (minus grizzly bears...yet). Willow hikes with me off-leash everywhere. She generally stays close. She will chase deer and squirrels when given the chance, but her obedience to "leave it" is very good (I've worked especially hard on that, for her and the wildlife's safety). I just have to catch her and say "leave it" before she goes into chase mode.
> 
> So far, we have come into close proximity to deer, moose, and, most recently, some very habituated mountain goats. The moose and goats scare me the most, obviously. But Willow has been very good, and generally I'm quick to put her on the leash as soon as we see the moose or goat, in case she decides to go for it unexpectedly.
> 
> ...


Eastern Montana coyotes are a far larger problem if there is gonna be one. Bears I am worried about where I live. I literally live right next to a place called Bear Canyon lol. Moose honestly terrify me with dogs because they can be very dangerous and aren't afraid to go after one.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Here (I hope) is the link to the Doberman and the coyotes. 




I did not re-watch the whole thing, but right off, you see there are as many as five adult coyotes. Hard to gauge the Dobe's size, with no human or other dog in perspective, but he certainly does not look under-sized and appears bigger than any individual coyote. 

The concern with mini-packs of this sort is that just as in nature, while one pack animal occupies the business end of the opponent, the other's can attack the rear or the flank. 

I do find it a little unnerving that the owner did not just call his dog back to stay with him.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

Squidwardp said:


> Here (I hope) is the link to the Doberman and the coyotes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


me, personally, in this situation, karma would be on a leash at my side (she isn't gun shy), my side arm would have been drawn and one or two rounds been fired *at* the closest yote. those yote's are showing* zero to very minimal fear towards the dog and human*. Doing this could potentially save someone else's dog on that trail, or decrease the chances of such a dangerous encounter from happening again. I love my Karma (and bubba but he doesn't walk lol), and i know she would defend me and my girls, and she needs to know i would do the same for her.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

For all I know the yotes are blocking the owner and dog from the direction they need to go/car/home etc but
I don't understand why the owner would allow that situation to go on for 9+ minutes to the point where his Dobe grows nonchalant as if there is no threat and you can turn your back and attention from them. Very bad decision.

That dog should have been heeled/leashed immediately and you make the decision to either withdraw or else pursue and drive them back. With that passive dog, I would withdraw.

The area I see them in near my house is generally much more open (woods) than that and with the way my dog is, I would pursue and drive them out of my turf. Before someone attempts to tell me how dangerous that would be, I have done it literally dozens of times (only to three yotes max though, I admit).

There is virtually zero chance a 40 pound coyote(s) will get anywhere close to a 6' male human with a 4-5' cudgel and an 80 pound aggressive (to them) male GSD. My 7 month old already goes hackles up at their scent. He'll easily top out at 90-100 pounds and zero coyotes will go near them. I need to get video to show their reactions


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

i cringed everytime that dobe turned it's back on those yotes and trotted away. a group of them that large can and will take down a dog the size of a dobe easily. They can take down a mature white tail buck, they can take down a good sized dog on it's own. i applaud you WNGD for doing exactly what should do be done.. Strike the fear of the almighty into those animals and it will save livestock and animals, but i always carry something bigger than a stick


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

I hear a lot of traffic noise in background, everything from trucks to a motorcycle. Sounds like they are not too far from civilization. Depending on where it is, that may explain why owner does not fire any warning shots. It kinda looks like Southern California. Could, unfortunately, bring down more trouble on him than the coyotes are worth. 

But I'd agree the owner ought to have leashed him. Sometimes people get too caught up in filming with their phone or go pro or whatever, and forget common sense.

I can't tell if the Dobe is truly passive, or just has very good recall. My female GSD probably would have lit up barking. On walks around the neighborhood she absolutely lights up and sounds off when she sees a coyote at night. We have yet to see one with the dog in daylight. I did see one cross a four lane busy street in broad daylight a while back. 

I count at least five in the video, and they appear all too comfortable around people and at least one large dog. 

In my urban neighborhood, I still carry something "bigger than a stick" at night, but I have to be awfully careful about actually using it. My neighbors are close by, houses on top of houses, and most would be more afraid of an armed human than a nuisance coyote. You would not think we'd have as much wildlife as we do, but we have raccoons, foxes (at times), coyotes, deer, rabbits (at times), occasional wood chuck, owls and hawks.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

KarmaPuppy said:


> i cringed everytime that dobe turned it's back on those yotes and trotted away. a group of them that large can and will take down a dog the size of a dobe easily. They can take down a mature white tail buck, they can take down a good sized dog on it's own. i applaud you WNGD for doing exactly what should do be done.. Strike the fear of the almighty into those animals and it will save livestock and animals, but i always carry something bigger than a stick


Can't shoot them where I live (edge of town) but truthfully, not sure that I'd want to. I love seeing all things in nature (except skunks lol) and don't even mind the bears at our cottage. Them I back away from but they're booking it in the other direction anyways (never seen one with young cubs but cubs yes).

As long as those coyotes show proper fear of me and the dog(s), I'll continue to drive them back into the valley and off my property and the paths through the subdivision. If I could shoot a noise banger at them it might be even more effective to stop them keep coming back out regularly.

Probably save some little dog on a leash that way. Doesn't mean I hate them though ....


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

WNGD said:


> Can't shoot them where I live (edge of town) but truthfully, not sure that I'd want to. I love seeing all things in nature (except skunks lol) and don't even mind the bears at our cottage. Them I back away from but they're booking it in the other direction anyways (never seen one with young cubs but cubs yes).
> 
> As long as those coyotes show proper fear of me and the dog(s), I'll continue to drive them back into the valley and off my property and the paths through the subdivision. If I could shoot a noise banger at them it might be even more effective to stop them keep coming back out regularly.
> 
> Probably save some little dog on a leash that way. Doesn't mean I hate them though ....


i don't like them because i deer hunt and they like to eat deer (among other things).. So you can see my disgust with them. i understand they are part of the 'food chain' but so am i.. and i like venison more than them lol


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

KarmaPuppy said:


> i don't like them because i deer hunt and they like to eat deer (among other things).. So you can see my disgust with them. i understand they are part of the 'food chain' but so am i.. and i like venison more than them lol


How much can you eat though  
Around here, the deer could use a few more predators and a bit more of a culling


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## finn'smom (Oct 4, 2019)

Not an encounter per se - occasionally if I'm driving around town with Finn and dog park is empty we will stop in for a run, tough to get him large space off leash time every day living right in town. We stop one afternoon in the wintertime and it's blustery snow out. Visibility isn't great but we're having fun with the open space. After about 20mins a pick up truck pulls up to the edge of the fence and an older man puts his window down to say "Hey you be careful in there, someone just called me to say they saw a wolf in the dog park"...I slowly turn around and check out the dark sable GSD adolescent running around ... "Uhhh sure, we're fenced in and should be safe" I think that was the exact moment he got a good look at my dog and clued in. There are treed corners in the park and I was standing in them to stay out of the wind - dog seen, human not!


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

My wife and I currently live in an urban neighborhood (albeit one with wildlife). We would like to sell it and get some acreage within 30 minutes of downtown. One fear I have is if our black female and/or sable male got loose, some idiot might think they were coyotes. Or wolves. Or hybrids. Good reason to teach rock solid recall, I guess, and also why good fences make good neighbors.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

_One fear I have is if our black female and/or sable male got loose, some idiot might think they were coyotes. _

buy a bright orange collar for him or her. My dogs wear them during hunting season. You can also purchase bright orange coverings for the dogs. And post your property unless you want hunters wandering into your back yard. I know that no one can see my house from about 250 feet behind me, so the trees back there are all posted. prominently.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> Can't shoot them where I live (edge of town) but truthfully, not sure that I'd want to. I love seeing all things in nature (except skunks lol) and don't even mind the bears at our cottage. Them I back away from but they're booking it in the other direction anyways (never seen one with young cubs but cubs yes).
> 
> As long as those coyotes show proper fear of me and the dog(s), I'll continue to drive them back into the valley and off my property and the paths through the subdivision. If I could shoot a noise banger at them it might be even more effective to stop them keep coming back out regularly.
> 
> Probably save some little dog on a leash that way. Doesn't mean I hate them though ....


I am a huge supporter of hazing. I love animals, but wild animals need to stay wild. I hike with a bear banger, and use bells when I'm walking. 
The property I am looking at is 100 acres of bush. They need to maintain respect for me and mine and we will get on beautifully.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Speaking of bears, we were at the lake last weekend sitting on the dock having dinner and a glass of wine when a friend and his wife out for a sunset cruise stopped in for a chat. Part of the conversation was him telling me that our local black bear had 3 cubs with her this year and were seeing her quite often in the woods behind their cottage (he's across the lake from me).This sow bear has 2-3 cubs every second year and is quite visible but generally not a nuisance whatsoever but will take advantage of garbage or bird feeders when presented with them.

Anyway, the next day I was walking my 2 GSD on the road and the older boy starts staring and growling. Maybe 75 years down the road I see a larger bear high tailing it away from us and the younger dog starts barking up a storm but both stay right with me; good boys!

Oddly enough, the next day we hear about a black bear "attack" (sketchy on the details) across the lake again. Not sure if it was this lone bear (maybe a male on the trail of the others) or the other Mom but there were no cubs around reported. They called the police to report the attack but the police didn't shoot the bear hence why I'm not quick to believe there was any attack.

Anyway, nice to know the bear didn't want to meet two German Shepherds and a 6' grumpy guy on a walk


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## whiskeypup (Mar 20, 2020)

Dunkirk said:


> Snakes ok? As a youngster, Nitro found an eastern brown snake (I'm in Australia) in our back yard when I let him outside. Their venom is ranked as the second most toxic of any land snake in the world. He went in to attack it, thankfully he happened to have his ecollar on at the time. Nitro got 2 highest setting stims. The stims interrupted his attack and saved his life, and the snake got away. He would not have survived the trip to the vet. I hated doing it, but under the circumstances, it was the right thing to do.
> 
> In nesting season, we have birds that dive bomb to protect their nest. Nitro has been targeted a lot by masked lapwings, (spur winged plovers), which he now recognises and would like to 'interview' up close and personal.


Hi @Dunkirk, Former Canberra resident here--the Magpies would go for my dog all the time (avoid me, but swoop the dog). Thankfully we never encountered any brown snakes!


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

whiskeypup said:


> Hi @Dunkirk, Former Canberra resident here--the Magpies would go for my dog all the time (avoid me, but swoop the dog). Thankfully we never encountered any brown snakes!


Magpies don't bother us more than once, something to do with Nitro's presentation of his teeth, he is allowed to defend himself/us 😁 I visited, then lived in Canberra for a while. My husband had some work contracts there. The first visit was in winter, I left a pleasant Brisbane winter's day of 27C and flew in on a day that Canberra had experienced snow


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Young pup Rogan is still just 9 months and 100 pounds but coyotes know he's joined forced with Harley and are not happy about it. 
Let's see how they like him this Winter....

Can you see the squirrel?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Oddly enough, when I stepped outside just after 7:00 am this morning for the morning walk with the boys, I spotted a coyote at the rear of the yard that bolted as soon as I saw it. The dogs didn't see it as they go out of the side yard to the woods to relieve themselves before we walk.

But as soon as we exited the rear yard where the coyote had been, Harley my 6 year old did his typical reaction; hackles up, animated running with nose to the ground, low growling and immediately took off directly along the trail the coyote had used. The woods are very thick this time of year and I didn't let him pursue far and he recalled like a champ. Just long enough they can hear him crashing through the woods and to keep vacating. Hard for him as he really wants to claim his property back but also, no way can I let Rogan join in at 9 months even though he's much bigger physically.

Rabbits and particularly squirrels are very active and plentiful right now as the weather cools down and I have no doubt that brings the yotes in. Once the leaves come down again, I'll let Harley run them 50 yards off and we'll then drive them away together. Coyotes here are not afraid but curious and respectful. We have done this dozens of times and it works when there is little cover for them.

Rogan will have to be 6 months older and have bulletproof recall first but the coyotes won't like seeing an 80 and 100+ pound males patrolling their woods again....along with their crazy human


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Urban Coyotes – Keeping Your Pets Safe


Attacks and bites wounds aren’t the only danger coyotes pose to your cats and dogs. Tips on how to coexist with the coyotes in your neighborhood.




www.preventivevet.com





"Run towards them and make noise to scare or shoo them away — yell “Go Away Coyote,” shake your keys, clap, etc."

"Don’t become indifferent… if you see a coyote in your yard or neighborhood ALWAYS haze (scare) them away. Do so completely, and remind your neighbors of the importance of doing the same."





__





How to Protect Your Pet from Coyotes | PetMD


News headlines have highlighted the tragedy that can unfold if a hungry coyote crosses paths with a small, unattended pet. But how common are coyote attacks in urban and suburban areas? Find out whether coyotes are a danger to pets and how to keep your pets safe.



www.petmd.com




"Move toward the coyote quickly and aggressively and do not run away from it. "


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

This guy came right through the yard mid day today, calm and bold as can be. Stopped to look around until I ripped open the door (not 30 feet from him) and yelled at him. I have seen their scat on the trail near my house quite a bit recently too and have to be vigilant, concerned about the dogs sniffing at it. He was maybe 40-50 pounds, coat not in great shape and a really skinny rat tail, not bushy at all. Didn't look like mange but not really healthy either.

I need a salt gun ....


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Just run at him/her aggressively. Ah, but what to do if they still don't run away, kick the **** out of them! WORKS every time!

Coyotes are not very confrontational, generally speaking. If you run into one that is, all the more reason to teach them a better strategy!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

tim_s_adams said:


> Just run at him/her aggressively. Ah, but what to do if they still don't run away, kick the **** out of them! WORKS every time!
> 
> Coyotes are not very confrontational, generally speaking. If you run into one that is, all the more reason to teach them a better strategy!


I will say the coyotes I saw in Texas were very near Wolf sized! Still, they are typically shy dogs, so run at them and they move out. Do it repeatedly and they stop coming. They are beautiful and resourceful animals. Appreciate them for what they are. Treat them accordingly! 

Personally, I love coyotes!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Hey Tim, if you have followed any of my comments about the coyotes around here, you'll remember know that I let Harley (80 pound male) run them at every opportunity. The coyotes (we seem them anywhere from several times per week when the leaves are off to seldom over the Summer) always run off as soon as he breaks. I can let him since he has terrific recall, first time every time and I keep him well within sight. And I almost always take the opportunity to chase them right out of what I consider our home range 

I have followed/chased them for miles and they are wary, curious and forward; they aren't hunted around here although shot in farm country just a few miles north of us and have grown very very comfortable around subdivisions. Squirrels are very active right now and I'm sure they're getting very well fed. They need to be taught a bit more respect.

In this case, I wasn't able to let Harley have another run at them since Rogan (11 months, 104 pounds male) was first at the door and I can't let him have free reign with them yet as my side lot is still super dense with trees/leaves. The last 4 times I have seen him has been mid day and not on my 7 am or 11 PM walks.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

WNGD said:


> This guy came right through the yard mid day today, calm and bold as can be. Stopped to look around until I ripped open the door (not 30 feet from him) and yelled at him. I have seen their scat on the trail near my house quite a bit recently too and have to be vigilant, concerned about the dogs sniffing at it. He was maybe 40-50 pounds, coat not in great shape and a really skinny rat tail, not bushy at all. Didn't look like mange but not really healthy either


I don't know how far west of Toronto you are but the City of Vaughan is having a problem with bold coyotes right now, There have been three incidents of a coyote approaching people in full daylight and nipping them. Three people are under rabies preventative treatment now. It is not known if it is a single coyote doing this or several on different occasions but around here coyotes are large, well fed and quite habituated to humans and pets. My daughter lives on a wetland/ravine area north of Toronto with an unfenced yard and is seeing coyotes on her property during the day, which is not usual at this time of the year. Wherever you are, please be cautious.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Quinnsmom said:


> I don't know how far west of Toronto you are but the City of Vaughan is having a problem with bold coyotes right now, There have been three incidents of a coyote approaching people in full daylight and nipping them. Three people are under rabies preventative treatment now. It is not known if it is a single coyote doing this or several on different occasions but around here coyotes are large, well fed and quite habituated to humans and pets. My daughter lives on a wetland/ravine area north of Toronto with an unfenced yard and is seeing coyotes on her property during the day, which is not usual at this time of the year. Wherever you are, please be cautious.


I'm just north of Burlington, unfenced true ravine property with a stream and 20 foot natural waterfall bordered by an ESA (Environmental Protected Area) that follows upstream and woods and connected to hundreds of miles of Bruce Trail and huge pond on the other side. Perfect coyote and deer territory and we see lots of both particularly as they are building up subdivisions up around us. And yes, they are very habituated to people and my neighbor has has issues with them. Her neighbor has 5 bird errrr squirrel feeders out aka the coyote buffet.

I carry a 5' very stout walking stick, have 200 pounds of GSD with me and a knife on my belt. Not to sound too violent, but if a coyote got close enough to nip me, I would have it's body left over for them to test for rabies and wouldn't need the rabies preventative shots. I for sure could crack a skull or shoulder blade.  I have seen them literally hundreds of times over the last 20 years and never have they not run when confronted. I really like seeing them in the wild but they will just watch and become bold if you are nonchalant with them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I Googled the biter(s) in Vaughan








3 people bitten by coyote near Vaughan’s Pheasant Hollow Park


It is unknown if the same coyote is responsible for all three incidents.




www.thestar.com














Also this:








In Thornhill, residents say 2020 is becoming the year of the coyote


Coyote spotting aren’t unusual in the ravine at Hefill Park, but it’s only this year that people have reported being chased, residents and politicians say.




www.thestar.com


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

I live in the city, but coyotes are pretty common here, too. I suppose it's easy pickins' for them since there are _plenty_ of squirrels, stray cats and not-too-secure garbage cans. Our local population ranges from the beach to the mountains- they follow the riverbeds into the city.

For the most part, the coyotes out here are tiny. I've been seeing them frequently for maybe the last 20 years and have yet to come across one more than 25 lbs. The ones I run off in the pre-dawn hours are the size of large cats. They are small, but bold. Solo coyotes have followed me and Gunnar (and previously, Spike and Rocco) for as long as a mile. We always run them off, but they always trail us at a distance. They break off once we get to the main street and its heavy traffic.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

This just came out today. Newmarket dog attacked by pack of coyotes in daylight on local trail This is where my daughter lives, on the west side of Newmarket. The packing up is very concerning and this poor dog got severely injured.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Seems like it's getting more and more commonplace around the GTA then.

Here's another one from this side of the City. Small dog snatched right put of fenced yard.








'Be careful': Residents in Oakville neighbourhood warned after coyote snatches and kills dog


OAKVILLE — Some residents of an Oakville neighbourhood are calling for action after a small dog was snatched from a backyard by a coyote.




www.insidehalton.com


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

We are moving to the general Newmarket area next year with a property that backs on to conservation land. My goofy boy is a fence jumper, don't think he will be allowed in the back yard without supervision!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Quinnsmom said:


> We are moving to the general Newmarket area next year with a property that backs on to conservation land. My goofy boy is a fence jumper, don't think he will be allowed in the back yard without supervision!


My last dogs were loose many days in our unfenced yard over ~20 years in all but the worst weather. Never once did I open the door to find they weren't there. All that's changed now.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

My last two GSDs would not leave the property and we are in a very suburban area. If they happened to get out an open gate we would find them patiently waiting on the front porch for someone to let them in. My current guy, Remy, is an overseas rescue and a flight risk, always will be. He was used to doing his own thing for the first three years of his life and just wants to go walk-about and explore. Prevention is the only solution we think, and a well-latched gate on a 6 foot fence.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Coyotes have taken a couple of small animals in my neighborhood in Cincinnati. Most recently, a few weeks ago, they attacked a small dog (second such attack in the last year in a relatively small neighborhood), and let the dog alone when some humans showed up. They have reportedly taken some cats as well. No aggressiveness toward humans so far, but reportedly, they have become pretty brazen about showing up even in broad daylight. This area well within in the city limits, and has been for well over a hundred years. Not a matter of humans encroaching on "their" territory, but rather resourceful coyotes moving in where they can find occasional deer, rabbits, and take shelter in a wooded ravine which usually has water. 

In Nova Scotia a few years back, a young woman was fatally mauled by coyotes. This is the only fatal attack I've ever heard or read about in North America. Pasted in is some interesting stuff from the Wikipedia article. The RCMP are pretty sure they got their man, in that a coyote they trapped had traces of her blood on his coat, and his fur pattern matched photos other folks had taken of a very brazen, even aggressive male coyote. 

"There was speculation by wildlife experts that Mitchell might have initiated contact by trying to feed coyotes or by disturbing a den with young.[8] Various other proposed explanations why the unusual attack occurred included that the coyotes might have been larger and bolder than normal coyotes because they were crosses with wolves or domestic dogs, rabid, starving, or protecting a carcass.[8] *None of these suggestions were subsequently borne out, *causing a reassessment of potential risk to humans from coyote attacks. It was also thought by experts that Mitchell may have inadvertently provoked a predation behaviour by running away, though a coyote may have been behind her when she was confronted by the oncoming ones.[8][14][17][18]

As is standard practice when an animal remains at large after killing a human, wardens searched for the attacker animal in the vicinity, where five or six coyotes were believed to live.[8] Mitchell's mother issued a statement saying that her daughter would not have wanted her death to result in the extermination of the coyotes: “We take a calculated risk when spending time in nature’s fold — it’s the wildlife’s terrain,” she wrote. “When the decision had been made to kill the pack of coyotes, I clearly heard Taylor’s voice say, ‘Please don’t, this is their space.’ She wouldn’t have wanted their demise, especially as a result of her own."[19]

Nonetheless, hours after the incident, while the trail was closed to the public, a female coyote that acted aggressively was killed by a warden keeping watch at the washhouse location. Three others within 1 kilometre (0.62 mi) of the Skyline trail were caught in leg-hold traps and killed before *a large male weighing 42 pounds (19 kg) was similarly dispatched 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) away on November 14. Scientific investigation of the carcasses determined that three, including the first and last accounted for, were linked to the attack on Mitchell by her blood on their coats and other forensic evidence. The large male coyote was found to have been both the dominant lead coyote photographed on the access road and the one found standing over Mitchell; coat markings in the photographs identified its carcass, which also contained pellets from the shotgun of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer who fired while at the scene.* The dead coyotes not linked to the attack may have been pack-mates of the attackers.[8] The large male and the female may have been a breeding pair; both were related to the other attack-implicated coyote."


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Neighborhood coyote, Cincinnati. Neighbor who lives behind my house forwarded. Behind the houses pictured lies the deep ravine where they most likely have their den.
Couple houses back in the direction he is trotting from is the house where small dog got taken.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> I'm just north of Burlington, unfenced true ravine property with a stream and 20 foot natural waterfall bordered by an ESA (Environmental Protected Area) that follows upstream and woods and connected to hundreds of miles of Bruce Trail and huge pond on the other side. Perfect coyote and deer territory and we see lots of both particularly as they are building up subdivisions up around us. And yes, they are very habituated to people and my neighbor has has issues with them. Her neighbor has 5 bird errrr squirrel feeders out aka the coyote buffet.
> 
> I carry a 5' very stout walking stick, have 200 pounds of GSD with me and a knife on my belt. Not to sound too violent, but if a coyote got close enough to nip me, I would have it's body left over for them to test for rabies and wouldn't need the rabies preventative shots. I for sure could crack a skull or shoulder blade.  I have seen them literally hundreds of times over the last 20 years and never have they not run when confronted. I really like seeing them in the wild but they will just watch and become bold if you are nonchalant with them.


You don’t want to injure the head/crack the skull if it’s to be sent in for rabies testing. Although if it actually bit you they’d make an exception I’m sure. But info for anybody particularly if you have a gun, if you plan on taking in an animal for rabies testing because of abnormal behaviors don’t shoot it in the head.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

some of ya'll need a strong bb gun.. shoot them in the haunches when they are near you or your house. do that a few times and they will take a wide birth of your home (i would do other things, but that's me  )


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

In this city you can't even let fly with a pellet gun or a bow without breaking some law. The houses are pretty close together in this areas. 

That said, if they got in my backyard after my dogs, I'd take care of them first, ask permission later. But I have never actually seen them in my yard. The house in photo above is around the block from me. I have seen a coyote of similar size cross a busy four lane city street about a quarter mile away.

My profile pic girl weighs about 70-72 lbs now and barks like she weighs 85. My wife has encountered two coyotes while walking at night (or maybe same one twice), and our female GSD lights up and coyote takes off. But the dog is on a leash, and we do not let her chase.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Kazel said:


> You don’t want to injure the head/crack the skull if it’s to be sent in for rabies testing. Although if it actually bit you they’d make an exception I’m sure. But info for anybody particularly if you have a gun, if you plan on taking in an animal for rabies testing because of abnormal behaviors don’t shoot it in the head.


I'm limited in what I can carry where I live. No setting off guns anywhere in city limits even though I border hundreds of miles of wild trails. The walking staff carry is only to wave off a curious coyote or potentially to forcefully separate it from my dog(s). Highly unlikely considering they are terrified of my dog and immediately run if they're spotted. Good to know re their head though.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

Squidwardp said:


> In this city you can't even let fly with a pellet gun or a bow without breaking some law. The houses are pretty close together in this areas.
> 
> That said, if they got in my backyard after my dogs, I'd take care of them first, ask permission later. But I have never actually seen them in my yard. The house in photo above is around the block from me. I have seen a coyote of similar size cross a busy four lane city street about a quarter mile away.
> 
> My profile pic girl weighs about 70-72 lbs now and barks like she weighs 85. My wife has encountered two coyotes while walking at night (or maybe same one twice), and our female GSD lights up and coyote takes off. But the dog is on a leash, and we do not let her chase.


it's amazing how these dogs can sound so much bigger than what they actually are. not to mention the power they have. We have moved in with my in laws until the new house is ready and we have to walk her (no fenced in back yard) several times a day. no biggie, but she has begun to pull on the leash recently (trying to correct this and working on other training too). I'm a fairly large guy and it can easily take 3.5 of her to equal my weight, but when she sees something she wants, she goes!

perfect example i was coming back from a walk with her after work, and my wife came home with TH (tiny hooman/karma's baby), and my wife set her on the ground to crawl around (country setting and soft grass), karma instantly saw her TH, and pulled like a freight train to get to her and give lovin's..

Karma was scared of a couple deer we encountered the other night, but i've heard her bark before.. i'm sure a yote wont come near us, but if one did, Karma would be the least of it's worry


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Coyotes are near virtually every subdivision anywhere near green space in the Great Toronto Area.
There's non-stop development going on and no end in sight anywhere within 2 hours of here. And the coyotes have been pushed out and settle right back in. Predictably, when people and nature overlap too far, people ruin nature and nature strikes back.


Newmarket dog attacked by pack of coyotes in daylight on local trail

'Be careful': Residents in Oakville neighbourhood warned after coyote snatches and kills dog

Burlington man calls for action after dog bitten by coyote

Police issue alert after boy bitten by coyote

Coyotes spotted in urban Milton

Mississauga woman says she was attacked by pack of coyotes - CityNews Toronto

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/keeping-safe-from-coyotes-hamilton-has-tips-1.4909545


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Walking our two tonight, we cut off the bike and walking trail, and looped through the high school, the back area of which doubles as a public park. My girl spotted a coyote at maybe 75 yards in a softball diamond; lit up barking.
Then we saw another one outside the diamond but headed in that direction. Second one appeared bigger. They kept their distance but by no means ran away. Six miles from downtown Cincinnati. This area has been densely settled for over 100 years, but they find pockets of woods for cover. Probably rabbit hunting.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We have one that comes right through the yard regularly, just saw him again yesterday; smallish, confident, wary. Neighbor feeds the squirrels and brings them around. 

Harley will run them off and now that the leaves are off the trees, I'll let him. Rogan at a year is a few months off that, then I'll let the 100 pounder have a run at them, he has tremendous prey drive and good recall. Hopefully the yotes get the message.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I spent many many hours walking in the woods, and seldom have seen coyotes. But as we were wrapping up an evening hunt for deer one night, my friend suggested trying out a new call he got recently, specifically for predators. So he called, maybe 3 times.

I was, and am do this day, amazed at how quickly we were surrounded by coyotes! We could hear and even see bushes moving, but didn't once actually see a coyote!

Point is, everytime you're out in the woods they are all around you. Not a problem, but ready at the drop of a hat to move in if the situation warrants it.

Coyotes are typically not a problem. There are exceptions, and they can be dangerous, though not the usual case, and certainly not something one has to be "worried" about all the time! IMHO...

I personally think that domestic dogs running loose are a much bigger threat, and always have been!


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

Saw a pair of coyotes this morning. No more than 20-25 lbs. each, I'd say. Early mornings (this happened around 4:40) I walk Gunnar on a long line, so I let him run off the coyotes whenever they trailed us within range (30 ft.)

We live in the city, and the local coyotes have become somewhat habituated to people, so whenever the opportunity presents itself, I'll pick up a rock and sling it at them- just to remind them that humans aren't to be messed with.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

chuckd said:


> Saw a pair of coyotes this morning. No more than 20-25 lbs. each, I'd say. Early mornings (this happened around 4:40) I walk Gunnar on a long line, so I let him run off the coyotes whenever they trailed us within range (30 ft.)
> 
> We live in the city, and the local coyotes have become somewhat habituated to people, so *whenever the opportunity presents itself, I'll pick up a rock and sling it at them- just to remind them that humans aren't to be messed with.*


Exactly what wildlife experts recommend. Not just to enjoy seeing them but to aggressively run them off and/or throw things at them so they can confirm who's domain they're trespassing on. I live surrounded by very thick bush and you can't see far in the Summer. But now that the leaves are off, I can see hundreds of yards down the trail and expect to see them more often again, instead of the single one that's been cutting through our yard regularly. It's time we started hiking through their territory again rather than let them cross through ours.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

I was having coffee this morning and 4 coyotes came through our back area almost right up to the fence. One even stopped to pee lol. About 5 minutes later another 2 came by. We have a creek with a kind of island where they hang out in the day so I think that’s where they are headed. Hunter would have had a fit as they’re very visible from our kitchen windows. He’d be at the window well before they trotted into sight. They all looked pretty fluffy and healthy too. I haven’t seen a lot of bunnies lately.....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> I was having coffee this morning and 4 coyotes came through our back area almost right up to the fence. One even stopped to pee lol. About 5 minutes later another 2 came by. We have a creek with a kind of island where they hang out in the day so I think that’s where they are headed. Hunter would have had a fit as they’re very visible from our kitchen windows. He’d be at the window well before they trotted into sight. They all looked pretty fluffy and healthy too. I haven’t seen a lot of bunnies lately.....


Fluffy and healthy is better than matted and mangy. Mange really worries me passing it on to the dogs. That and ticks.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We came home last night about 9:00, well after dark and saw our local coyote abut half way up our 100 yard driveway. Pretty sure it's the same guy in the picture above with the scrawny hairless tail. They are really a dirty browny beige this time of year. With the headlights on him he took off into he woods and I wasn't able to see much more of him this time.

But it's an hour or two before my last nightly walk with the boys so gotta keep an eye out always and not be complacent. Rogan is now a year old, he hasn't seen one live yet and I won't let him run them for a bit yet but Rogan has seen them dozens and dozens of times and will move him along with extreme predator-prejudice.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Coyote sightings are ramping up recently. I was out with the boys two days ago in the morning, maybe 7:30

Rogan was 50 feet ahead of me, Harley beside me and two coyotes came around the corner maybe 100 feet further and Rogan broke for them before I even had barely seen them. He covered that 50 feet in seconds and they turned and bolted immediately. Now he's never got near one before and I'm not anxious for him to yet. He's only 13 months but evidently the yotes didn't like seeing a 110 pound GSD baring down on them and got lost fast. I was able to recall him before he turned the corner, it all happened in seconds and it's right by my house.

Yesterday I saw one of them walking down the same trail (I can see it from my den where I'm often working during the day) and today again, one went by in the same direction and a few minutes later, 2 came back. I watched them unsuccessfully try and snag a black squirrel and head back further into the woods.

They're pretty fluffy right now and look bigger (50 pounds?) than they really are.

There was a guy walking his little daughter and a pug going by a minute later and I stepped outside just to let him know to keep his head up and I stayed outside until he would have been 100 yards further along. You never know....

I'm thinking about trying out an air horn or maybe a sling shot. At least they're not cutting directly through the yard right now with Harley and Rogan marking up a storm.


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## Cody&Casper (Dec 30, 2020)

We live in So CA right now and we have at least 2 packs of coyotes in the area. We hear them yipping/howling almost every night. We haven't caught them on our security cams, but we have caught bob cats. I have personally seen them in the neighborhood. Our current dog, a golden retriever therapy dog, and our cats don't even seem to notice when they start crying. But the dog also refuses to go in our yard at all unless we are with her. She prefers to stay in the courtyard. We also have rattlesnakes, and she was bit as a puppy. Thankfully we have a great vet who saved her life, so it is possible her fear is based on snakes vs coyotes. But it's a problem. We keep the cats inside at all times. Our neighbor told us they "went through" 7 cats in 7 years due to coyotes, so yeah. Ours stay inside. The dog comes in at dusk. I've known neighbors who have lost small dogs due to suspected coyotes. I didn't grow up with coyotes around and I'll be honest, they worry me. I don't like them yipping in my yard after dark. It freaks me out. But personally, I'm more worried about humans breaking in our house than coyotes in the yard and canyon behind our home.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We see coyotes regularly during the day so the myth that they are just nocturnal is exactly that, a myth.
Oddly enough, just last night again I was woken up and couldn't figure out what the sound was and then Rogan started growling and then barking up a storm; never a good way to come out of a deep sleep. The sound wasn't loud enough in the house and at first I thought it was someone's alarm on their cell phone going off but when I opened the door from the bedroom, it was very clear that the noise was coyotes outside. 

When they really get yipping and yowling, the noise is unreal and kinda otherworldly, really creepy. I couldn't figure out what direction the sound was coming from without going outside and it stopped as quickly as it started. I have never seen moe than 3 togehter here but that sounded like more. Dogs were calm but annoyed and we headed back to the sack 10 minutes later. Couldn't find any evidence of a kill this morning but Harley gets very agitated when we cross the trail, head down hackles up, same as always.

I don't like to but might have to leash up Rogan for our 11:00 pm walks since he's already run them off once but in the daylight. I assume he's inherited Harley's intense dislike of them.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I've always thought that coyotes were twilight hunters, when the sun is low. I know they can be active any part of the day or night, having to get the opportunity to eat when they can, but in general do their stalking during those in-between hours. I'm sure we have a few here in southern MD and I keep my dogs leashed if I can't see into the dark corners, even on my own property. IF I had cats I'd keep them indoors. My last couple of cats were indoor cats and lived good lives.


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## saintbob (Jul 14, 2018)

It's my assumption from the few coyotes I've seen in the day is they separate and patrol an area, then at night regroup to howl at who knows what.

The few I seen in the day was when I was static and on watch. Also I see solo tracks in the snow along the same trails never came upon multiple tracks You'd might expect after hearing them from close range but I'm sure they're out there, somewhere.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Cody&Casper said:


> We live in So CA right now and we have at least 2 packs of coyotes in the area. We hear them yipping/howling almost every night. We haven't caught them on our security cams, but we have caught bob cats. I have personally seen them in the neighborhood. Our current dog, a golden retriever therapy dog, and our cats don't even seem to notice when they start crying. But the dog also refuses to go in our yard at all unless we are with her. She prefers to stay in the courtyard. We also have rattlesnakes, and she was bit as a puppy. Thankfully we have a great vet who saved her life, so it is possible her fear is based on snakes vs coyotes. But it's a problem. We keep the cats inside at all times. Our neighbor told us they "went through" 7 cats in 7 years due to coyotes, so yeah. Ours stay inside. The dog comes in at dusk. I've known neighbors who have lost small dogs due to suspected coyotes. I didn't grow up with coyotes around and I'll be honest, they worry me. I don't like them yipping in my yard after dark. It freaks me out. But personally, I'm more worried about humans breaking in our house than coyotes in the yard and canyon behind our home.


One of my first wildlife jobs was tracking coyotes and bobcats in Orange County. Those critters are so adaptable. First bobcat I caught was in a drainage strip behind Carmax at the 1-5/405 split. 

Also had a momma cat drop a litter of kittens in a backyard near Upper Newport Bay. 

The coyotes were everywhere. Not smart to have an outdoor cat anywhere in the west, I think... Between the owls, coyotes, bobcats, and the occasional mountain lion, it's a predation waiting to happen. Had a collared lion I studied in Golden, CO that had a particular taste for domestic cats. She lived in that town for years with no one the wiser until she brought her kittens up to someone's sliding glass door one day...


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Can't say I've actually observed coyotes hunting in the daytime, but I have certainly seen them moving about in daylight. Probably about half my total sightings. 
They are incredibly adaptable. I've heard and read that the northeastern U.S. coyote gene pool has some significant fraction of grey wolf, along with some evidence of feral dogs in the mix.
They've adapted to living in wooded environments, whereas western coyotes often live in more open country. The eastern variety run a little bigger, though with their fur in winter condition, they look bigger than they weigh out. I don't hunt them, but from what I hear, a 40-45 ## coyote is a pretty decent sized adult. 

While on a fishing trip in Louisiana, the guide pointed out a coyote running the shoreline. He/she probably could make a pretty good living off stuff that drifts in with the tide. 
And I expect that's what he was doing, maybe also supplementing with some abandoned fish bait and food that shore fishermen dropped.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

saintbob said:


> It's my assumption from the few coyotes I've seen in the day is they separate and patrol an area, then at night regroup to howl at who knows what.
> 
> The few I seen in the day was when I was static and on watch. Also I see solo tracks in the snow along the same trails never came upon multiple tracks You'd might expect after hearing them from close range but I'm sure they're out there, somewhere.


Even when we're not seeing or hearing them as much, the telltale signs in the snow give the little buggers away. I have a 30 ft long line that I might start using for Rogan at night. He's ~twice the size of the ones I see around here.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

They didn't come directly through our property for years and skirted it until earlier this year for some reason. Could be these are newer yotes that haven't been properly hazed by myself and Harley yet or the increased COVID walker traffic had pushed them just off towards me (my yard corners two wooded/environmentally protected areas). Time to condition them for a bit more respect,


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

My wife and daughter were walking both dogs this afternoon, there was a couple with a small dog 500 feet down the path so they leashed Rogan up but the couple went onto a side path into the woods. A coyote popped out on the path between where they went in and my wife, Harley was snarling and barking at it but stayed to heel and Rogan evidently went nuts, lunging and whining at it, no doubt worked up by Harley's attitude. Coyote trotted away in the other direction, didn't appear scared at all. And I'm thinking that little dog may have been in some danger as well.

I have to insist that Rogan is walked on-leash if I'm not there for the immediate future. These critters suddenly are around every day.

* I should note that I sent an email to our local Councillor asking for coyote warning signs to be put up around the pond but they sent me the standard nonsense back about them being no danger even though I sent them links to multiple bite events in the area.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I feel like I'm updating this thread more often than I'd like. Yesterday I was walking the dogs back towards home and a lady walking asked if my dogs we off leash a few minutes earlier because she saw what she thought were two loose dogs; they were coyotes. 

This morning I met a women walking a cockapoo type dog and she picked her dog up when she saw us. She apologized and said her dog was afraid of big dogs since it was *attacked a few days ago and pinned by two coyotes.* She yelled and was able to chase them off. It was total coincidence to meet her and hear this. She called just to notify the City and was told "maybe you shouldn't live in the country"! .... which she doesn't but lives along woods/ravine but what an ignorant thing to say.

She lives a 5 minute walk from me along woods that my woods run into. I have no doubt that her coyotes are my coyotes.

I have now ordered 5 coyote warning signs that I'm going to mount where the City won't.


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

Sorry if this question has already been covered, but has anyone let their GSD chase a deer without calling them off and until the dog gives up and returns? My 13 month old is always chasing deer on our hikes but I call him off the chase about 50 to 100 yards but really tempted to let him go and test it myself. But honestly getting hurt running blindly in the woods full of sticks and rocks is what stops me.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Roscoe618 said:


> Sorry if this question has already been covered, but has anyone let their GSD chase a deer without calling them off and until the dog gives up and returns? My 13 month old is always chasing deer on our hikes but I call him off the chase about 50 to 100 yards but really tempted to let him go and test it myself. But honestly getting hurt running blindly in the woods full of sticks and rocks is what stops me.


Pretty sure that is considered harassing wildlife and is illegal in some areas at least in the US. Particularly in winter it can literally be deadly to deer depending on your region. If the deer decide to fight instead of run they can seriously harm your dog. Your dog might also not give up and end up lost or even hit by a car depending on where you live. (We had a dog take off after a rabbit when I was younger. Rabbit got hit by a car, dog luckily was far enough behind it that it didn’t.)

To sum it up please don’t let your dog chase wildlife. (I don’t mind using dogs to haze wildlife or keep them out of your garden. But just letting them chase them for no reason isn’t a good thing for anybody.)


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

My concern would be since he's out of your sight there's quite a few things that could befall him.Porcupines,bears,traps(set by hunters),etc.As Kazel mentioned it is illegal to harass wildlife.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Roscoe618 said:


> Sorry if this question has already been covered, but has anyone let their GSD chase a deer without calling them off and until the dog gives up and returns? My 13 month old is always chasing deer on our hikes but I call him off the chase about 50 to 100 yards but really tempted to let him go and test it myself. But honestly getting hurt running blindly in the woods full of sticks and rocks is what stops me.


I have a dog that would chase, and then track, until she collapsed. She is never off leash because of that. 
As others have mentioned in most areas it's illegal. In some places a dog can be shot on sight for harassing wildlife, or livestock, on public land or on someone's property that objects to it. And in some places land owners can shoot dogs just for being on their property.
It isn't something I would ever encourage.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I would never let a dog chase without recall but having said that, no way a dog catches a deer within 200 yards. But if I'm not mistaken, an athlete dog can run a deer into exhaustion or heart attack.


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

I never said I encourage my dog to chase deer. I said I call him off the chase...within a blink he already has a 50 yard sprint but recalls back 100% of the time so far. Where I live we have packs of deer 50 feet from my door. And every dog in the neighborhood has one time or another chased away these packs.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Roscoe618 said:


> I never said I encourage my dog to chase deer. I said I call him off the chase...within a blink he already has a 50 yard sprint but recalls back 100% of the time so far. Where I live we have packs of deer 50 feet from my door. And every dog in the neighborhood has one time or another chased away these packs.


I have deer that come into my front yard, yet my dog does not chase them. He would if I let him but I’ve trained him not to. This is something I can’t emphasize how important it can be to work on particularly in a neighborhood. (The reason I mentioned the getting hit by car issues).

It’s good you can call him off but in a neighborhood I’d be even more worried about him chasing them in the first place.


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

Kazel said:


> I have deer that come into my front yard, yet my dog does not chase them. He would if I let him but I’ve trained him not to. This is something I can’t emphasize how important it can be to work on particularly in a neighborhood. (The reason I mentioned the getting hit by car issues).
> 
> It’s good you can call him off but in a neighborhood I’d be even more worried about him chasing them in the first place.


In the neighborhood my dog is never off leash. He is only off leash in the woods.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Roscoe618 said:


> I never said I encourage my dog to chase deer. I said I call him off the chase...within a blink he already has a 50 yard sprint but recalls back 100% of the time so far. Where I live we have packs of deer 50 feet from my door. And every dog in the neighborhood has one time or another chased away these packs.


I don't think anyone said you did
I'm just responding to your questions, quote "has anyone let their GSD chase a deer without calling them off"

I haven't and I wouldn't without calling him/them back to recall. My dogs (like many) love to chase rabbits, squirrels, deer and coyotes.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Well, here we are again with the next installment of "German Shepherds vs coyotes. Who is top of the chain?"

An hour ago about 8:00 I was coming back form my morning walk with the boys and just a few hundred feet from turning into the path through the woods to my house. Both dogs are off leash. I was within sight of my house.

There's a blind corner around a huge pond but a lot of bushes blocking the view and I caught sight of some movement which I generally assume is a dog walker coming the other way, but you never know. Harley has ~100% recall and Rogan is pretty good for a meat-head so I called them both back to heal, leashed up Rogan and waited for the person to come round the corner....but they didn't. 

I now had my suspicions but it's not unusual for people to turn around when they see someone coming with two German Shepherds so I waited 30 seconds and rounded the corner myself. I could now see them through the bushes but the dogs couldn't; there stood my 2 resident coyotes.

They bolted immediately, I have zero doubt they are afraid of the dogs and I let Harley run them again through my woods. Rogan however was still on a 30 foot long lead and he was pizzed. You Who know the expression "pulls like a freight train"? Well, you can call me caboose from now on. He is pretty good on leash but in this case, there was no getting his attention, coyotes and his buddy were gone and he wanted in. I'm lucky my arm and the rest of my body are still acquainted.

Anyway, called Harley back, he was there in 30 seconds and we all trailed the yotes again to see if we could escort them a little further off the property but didn't see them again. I think Harley already did the job....


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Well, here we are again with the next installment of "German Shepherds vs coyotes. Who is top of the chain?"
> 
> An hour ago about 8:00 I was coming back form my morning walk with the boys and just a few hundred feet from turning into the path through the woods to my house. Both dogs are off leash. I was within sight of my house.
> 
> ...


How dare you allow your dog to harass animals like that! Didn't you know there are laws against that? 😉😉


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Talking about the wildlife. Surprisingly haven’t seen or heard coyotes recently in our heck of the woods but my husband went outside the other day, came back laughing. For a few seconds he thought he is talking to one of our cats, then he realized after the cat turned around and gave him a look that he was talking to a bobcat! I don’t know how it’s possible...oh men!)


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

White tail deer vs. lean and athletic GSD = likely advantage deer, certainly for short distances. I've seen an adult white tail jump a three rail fence they were standing next to as if it were child's play, no running start required. And a deer can really cover some ground when they get unlimbered. Cardio wise, I don't know. Big cats have relatively small lungs compared to a dog, which is why most are ambush predators and even a cheetah has to catch prey in a sprint or give it up. But deer, I don't really know. I would've guessed they could run a fairly long time. But in some places, they hunt deer with dogs, so maybe a determined dog or pack thereof with good noses could run them to exhaustion.

As to letting one's pet dog chase them, I would not. While hunting birds, I once ran across the full skeleton of a deer, with a leg bone twisted in a wire fence, where it apparently got caught and twisted on a jump. If it could happen to the deer, it could happen to a dog that was chasing it. If not over a fence, over some other obstacle.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

@Squidwardp it’s crazy what accidents can happen. My brother in law had to call ministry of environment to euthanize a deer that got caught naturally in the crook of a tree on their property! My sister in law found it and was totally traumatized. They have dogs who went after it but it was there a while already. Just a natural accident. Even though it was young and not hunting season, they got to use the meat.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Sorry to hijack a coyote thread, but it did veer off into the subject of deer chasing.

If the link below works, here's a dog who liked to chase deer, until it didn't. 









Dog Chases Deer, Soon Regrets It


Dog Chases Deer, Soon Regrets It




www.realtree.com





Interesting to me, and a little unexpected, that the dog's speed and acceleration were roughly on par with the deer, at least in this clip. 
But as you'll see, this deer wasn't really trying to get away. Why not? Looks like it has a yearling still traveling with it. Maybe it assumed the yearling could not get away as fast, and hence came back at the chasing dog. 

At the 3:06 mark or thereabouts, the dog suddenly remembers its owner was practicing a solid recall. Or the dinner bell rang.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Roscoe618 said:


> How dare you allow your dog to harass animals like that! Didn't you know there are laws against that? 😉😉


There’s a difference between hazing and allowing animals to harass and chase wildlife with no purpose.They actually use dogs in a controlled manner to haze bears to encourage them to stay away from certain locations.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Roscoe618 said:


> How dare you allow your dog to harass animals like that! Didn't you know there are laws against that? 😉😉


No laws around my house but me......


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

That vid of the deer was interesting, never seen anything like that although we see deer in the yard every week. That particular deer would have been venison with Harley


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Re: deer chasing. My local country vet who has been here a long time is a very mellow guy. He is very relaxed about most things so when he tells me something is a big deal I believe him. I knew deer chasing was dangerous in its own right- and I believe I mentioned to the vet that I'd started my dog on E Collar because he wanted to chase deer. He said that's good because your dog will be shot and the game warden will look the other way and do nothing. 

I _Think_ in our area only the game warden himself is supposed to be allowed to shoot a dog chasing deer but I believe it's also just accepted that anyone out in the woods with a gun will shoot a dog on deer. And there are plenty of guys in the woods with guns.

I treat deer chasing/desire to chase deer, as a life or death matter because it is. If the deer doesn't turn on the dog....the dog is risking its life running at mach 10 until it may become lost, get heat stroke, break a leg, cross a road and be hit by a car, or be shot.

My E Collar training also saved a baby fawn. We came upon it unexpectedly basically right on our walking trail. It was hunkered down in the brush but of course the dogs smelled it. It all happened so fast I honestly didn't know what the heck was going on for a minute, we were all just walking along close together and suddenly there is screaming (the baby screaming in fear) and commotion. Luckily they chased it back down the trail toward me so I saw what was happening and was able to immediately call my dogs off within 10 ft of chase. Baby ran into the woods yelling and I saw the mother reappear from wherever she had been so I am glad to know she came to its cries and it was not disoriented and lost to her.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Re: deer chasing. My local country vet who has been here a long time is a very mellow guy. He is very relaxed about most things so when he tells me something is a big deal I believe him. I knew deer chasing was dangerous in its own right- and I believe I mentioned to the vet that I'd started my dog on E Collar because he wanted to chase deer. He said that's good because your dog will be shot and the game warden will look the other way and do nothing.
> 
> I _Think_ in our area only the game warden himself is supposed to be allowed to shoot a dog chasing deer but I believe it's also just accepted that anyone out in the woods with a gun will shoot a dog on deer. And there are plenty of guys in the woods with guns.
> 
> ...


Other than feeling bad for the deer, I assume the justification for shooting a dog comes from the hunting community or is it a wild dog problem? Do they use dogs to hunt/flush deer near you, not sure where that's usual or legal.

Sometimes a dog running a deer for a short distance is just a dog running a deer for a short distance. "If the deer doesn't turn on the dog....the dog is risking its life running at mach 10 until it may become lost, get heat stroke, break a leg, cross a road and be hit by a car, or be shot" seems a touch dramatic to me. 

Your dogs needs to have great recall, never leave your sight, not be near a road. Heat stroke? C'mon

I agree that dogs should never chase deer uncontrolled and definitely stay well away from fawns. Actually, there's no reason to regularly chase deer at all.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Also, I've known of several dogs that have been attacked by deer, doe's that have attacked and stomped med to sm dogs, but I'm sure a buck with a rack would not hesitate to turn and attack a larger dog that was chasing it. 

Years ago, while out horseback riding had my Chesapeake female along, a coyote showed up. Came to about 30 ft from us, the coyote started to act like it wanted to play with my dog, I was dumbfounded. Coyote started to go up a little hill, my dog started to follow, coyote turned, arched it's back like a cat and hissed! Real strange, luckily my dog had great recall, she came right back to me, I chased the coyote up the hill.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It's legal here for dogs to chase deer off of your property or to trail a wounded deer,but never to hunt with.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

WNGD said:


> Other than feeling bad for the deer, I assume the justification for shooting a dog comes from the hunting community or is it a wild dog problem? Do they use dogs to hunt/flush deer near you, not sure where that's usual or legal.
> 
> Sometimes a dog running a deer for a short distance is just a dog running a deer for a short distance. "If the deer doesn't turn on the dog....the dog is risking its life running at mach 10 until it may become lost, get heat stroke, break a leg, cross a road and be hit by a car, or be shot" seems a touch dramatic to me.
> 
> ...


Dogs are never used on deer except blood tracking wounded deer which I assume is done on a line.

Dogs are legal on bears here, and during season you will see hounds roaming with GPS collars. 

Call me dramatic if you want but dogs can travel very far, very fast in a full chase. Even if you aren't that near a road to begin with crossing one is not a long shot.

And it's not just feeling bad for the deer, they can be stressed and injured by a dog chase- for no good reason. If you want to to argue that a dog running deer for a short distance is "just a dog running deer for short distance" you do you.

I'm talking about stuff that I have first hand experience with or that has been told to me by sources I consider to be very reliable. I've been warned by local hunters as well that they would shoot. I'm sure it depends on where you are-- hunting is like a religion here, and your local laws.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Not my state but a pretty standard law "
Every environmental conservation officer, forest ranger and member of the state police may kill any dog (a) pursuing or killing deer within the Adirondack or Catskill parks, at any time;  (b) pursuing or killing any game or wildlife on a state-owned game farm or wildlife refuge;  or (c) pursuing or killing any game or wildlife on a state-owned or leased wildlife management area, except a dog being legally used for hunting small game or for dog training.
3. Every park patrolman, park ranger and member of the state police, county police and town police may kill any dog pursuing or killing deer within any state park or state park reservation at any time.
4. At any time (a) any environmental conservation officer, dog warden, forest ranger or member of the state police, anywhere in the state, (b) any member of any town police within the limits of the town of which such member is an officer, (c) any member of the Westchester County Parkway police on any park, parkway or reservation owned or controlled by the county of Westchester or (d) any member of a police force or department of any county, city, town or village in which such member has jurisdiction and is regularly employed may kill any dog pursuing or killing deer and any coyote killing a domestic animal.
5. No action for damages shall lie against any authorized person for the killing of a cat, dog or coyote as provided in this section."

My state also says that it has to be the game warden or other law enforcement that does the shooting but my understanding is that they have an unwritten agreement that any hunter who sees a dog running deer can and will shoot.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Dogs are never used on deer except blood tracking wounded deer which I assume is done on a line.
> 
> Dogs are legal on bears here, and during season you will see hounds roaming with GPS collars.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean use dramatic as an insult, I'm just a big fan of dogs being given a bit more latitude to be dogs in nature.

And yes, I figured hunters were part of the equation; don't let dogs chase deer so I can shoot them and fill the freezer.

I guess it's good I don't live there because if a hunter ever took a shot at my dog that was in my sight, he'd get one back across the bow ....


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

It's not really a good idea to wander around in the woods during hunting season. Even if you and your dog are decked out in blaze orange. We stick to open fields and skirt the edges of wooded areas.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> It's not really a good idea to wander around in the woods during hunting season. Even if you and your dog are decked out in blaze orange. We stick to open fields and skirt the edges of wooded areas.


Good plan. Especially walking a dog that looks like a little bear 
Even the odd hunter decked out in orange gets shot now and again.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

dogma13 said:


> It's not really a good idea to wander around in the woods during hunting season. Even if you and your dog are decked out in blaze orange. We stick to open fields and skirt the edges of wooded areas.


Unless you are on property you know for a fact that doesn't have hunters on it, i wouldn't venture on to property during hunting season. Like the previous post, even hunters that look like pumpkins get shot, on a yearly basis. Which is freaking sad. Too many people out there hunting for the first time, are too jumpy. That's why i don't go anywhere near property that i don't know during hunting season. including public land.

However i've also been VERY blessed to have had two different hunting properties to be on in my life. Everyone that owns land around us, also hunted, but we all knew where each other were, or the general areas everyone hunted. So we never had an issue of these sorts. I did have a few tress passers that were talked to accordingly. Always a good time when a 15 year old can scold/chew out a full grown man, and have him apologize and cower because they were caught in the act.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Lots of fresh show covered what had been grass today. Really windy, not too cold.
With my daughter, took the boys for their 5:00 walk today, two kids were walking towards us so I leashed up Rogan but and headed out on the pond to skate.

As we walked by some thick bushes not 15 feet away, Harley barged in like he does if there's a squirrel or rabbit on the ground and out the other side popped the male coyote running full out. Rogan went to dive in and had 20 feet of leash rolled off in a heartbeat but he was held back thank goodness. Harley came back to heel immediately like a champ.

Coyote goes maybe 100 feet and just turns around around and stares at us. That triggers me
So I give Rogan to my daughter and take Harley after him to move that cheeky little bugger along with prejudice. I sent Harley after him for about 150 feet and just called him back. At this point, the yote might be finding this a great big game for all I know and unfortunately we were chasing him back towards my house with nothing but woods between us so Rogan had to stay on the leash.

What I took from all this is that coyote was hiding only 15 feet from us and just waiting for us to stroll by. I have seen rabbits do that, I have seen raccoons do that but not a yote in broad daylight. And with little kids and people with small dogs on there regularly.

They are way too comfortable.


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## Roscoe618 (Jan 11, 2020)

WNGD said:


> Lots of fresh show covered what had been grass today. Really windy, not too cold.
> With my daughter, took the boys for their 5:00 walk today, two kids were walking towards us so I leashed up Rogan but and headed out on the pond to skate.
> 
> As we walked by some thick bushes not 15 feet away, Harley barged in like he does if there's a squirrel or rabbit on the ground and out the other side popped the male coyote running full out. Rogan went to dive in and had 20 feet of leash rolled off in a heartbeat but he was held back thank goodness. Harley came back to heel immediately like a champ.
> ...


How old are your dogs?

Yeah, around me wild life are oblivious to humans. A few months ago my 9 month old at the time and I were being followed by a pack of yotes for a good 15 minutes so I leashed him up.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Harley is 6, 80 pounds and they are terrified of him, he goes full irate. Never seen more than 3 'yotes together around here and they are small but much much more visible recently and bold, watching/following people on the trails. They have always run when we follow them but a lady I met on a walk last week said her little dog was pinned in her backyard by two of them and she was able to scare them off. She borders miles of trails like I do; actually same trails a few miles apart.

Rogan is just 14 months, 105 pounds, just a big friendly hulk but taking cues from Harley. I won't let him chase them off until his recall is 100% and he's 6 months older but the coyotes won't like him much either.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

a little pocket .22 pistol can come in handy for these types of issues


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

KarmaPuppy said:


> a little pocket .22 pistol can come in handy for these types of issues


For 25 years, we had nothing but woods and 200 acres of farmers field beside us even though we're very near town. We were pretty much on the edge. Now those 200 acres are well in process of 3000 homes, 2 schools, a couple of live/work apartments, plazas etc .... all the wildlife is getting pushed around.

I can't shoot a .22 any more but have thought about some sort of little salt gun or a slingshot just to "reach out and touch them"

With the number of close calls, dog/cat kills and bites from coyotes that have happened nearby and within an hour of me, these guys aren't just cute wildlife any more.

And yah, we're looking to move from our dream house in 4-5 years.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

That's a shame. You have such a beautiful property. I've sort of wondered why the coyotes would choose to hang around so close to your place.Makes sense.There are plenty around here but they have plenty of room and never set foot on our property. I see their tracks in the snow going skirting the border.Samson has marked it wellI remember reading about a gun similar to a paint ball gun that shoots plastic or maybe rubber that is non lethal. Might be an option?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> That's a shame. You have such a beautiful property. I've sort of wondered why the coyotes would choose to hang around so close to your place.Makes sense.There are plenty around here but they have plenty of room and never set foot on our property. I see their tracks in the snow going skirting the border.Samson has marked it wellI remember reading about a gun similar to a paint ball gun that shoots plastic or maybe rubber that is non lethal. Might be an option?


We have ravine to the front with a 20 foot natural waterfall, a ESA (environmentally Sensitive Area; woods) on one side heading up the creek, 5 acres leading to 500 miles of wooded trails to the other side and back but one back corner also leads to those 200 acres of formerly farmer's fields, now mostly houses. Coyotes and deer were likely always there but the housing development has pushed them out of the corn field where they probably ate a million mice and into the open. And they are coming through my yard now where they never had before, no idea why.

I like seeing animals in the wild and I feel a bit sorry for them. But they have gotten far too comfortable now and super bold in broad daylight. A Co2 powered paintball gun that shot rubber would make some sense as long as it stung them and didn't really hurt them.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

WNGD said:


> We have ravine to the front with a 20 foot natural waterfall, a ESA (environmentally Sensitive Area; woods) on one side heading up the creek, 5 acres leading to 500 miles of wooded trails to the other side and back but one back corner also leads to those 200 acres of formerly farmer's fields, now mostly houses. Coyotes and deer were likely always there but the housing development has pushed them out of the corn field where they probably ate a million mice and into the open. And they are coming through my yard now where they never had before, no idea why.
> 
> I like seeing animals in the wild and I feel a bit sorry for them. But they have gotten far too comfortable now and super bold in broad daylight. A Co2 powered paintball gun that shot rubber would make some sense as long as it stung them and didn't really hurt them.


they do make Co2 powered paintball pistols that are fairly accurate, and when they connect, they don't exactly tickle. This time of the year paintballs really sting. I used to play a little in my younger years, and i've had some nice welts on my torso from the paintballs hitting me, even while wearing 2-3 layers of clothes. They will tickle even more if you freeze them prior to loading them in the gun


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Freeze them? I wouldn't want to break any bones,only make their presence in my yard an unpleasant experience.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

it wouldn't break bones, but it would make their experience unpleasant.. however so would unfroze paintballs.. especially if you get the cheap-o ones that don't break easily lol


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

KarmaPuppy said:


> they do make Co2 powered paintball pistols that are fairly accurate, and when they connect, they don't exactly tickle. This time of the year paintballs really sting. I used to play a little in my younger years, and i've had some nice welts on my torso from the paintballs hitting me, even while wearing 2-3 layers of clothes. They will tickle even more if you freeze them prior to loading them in the gun


I thought of paintball (yah I have some experience being shot with them) and they probably wouldn't burst through all that fur this time of year. If they did, some nature lover would complain and animal control might find their way back to me and I'd probably be charged with wildlife harassment or some such nonsense. A rubber pellet with no paint might work.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Again not sure how much it woul d sting through all that fur. But just knowing you can reach out and touch them from 100 feet away might just do the trick


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I would never let a dog chase without recall but having said that, no way a dog catches a deer within 200 yards. But if I'm not mistaken, an athlete dog can run a deer into exhaustion or heart attack.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

This isn't a German Shepherd but I thought you guys might like this one too. BC Canada:


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Jen84 said:


>


I wasn't talking about the world's dumbest deer that doesn't run 
I have seen them where if you freeze and don't move, deer will stare and stare in your general direction and then slowly, slowing start walking directly towards you. They're definitely not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Oddly enough, GSD and deer are both listed with the exact same top speed (48 kph) or about 30 mph. Just slightly faster than the fastest human at top speed which of course we can't hold for long. Wolves are faster and will run a deer to exhaustion. I maintain that with any sort of a head start and without limitless ground to cover, a GSD won't catch a deer. And no one should be letting their dogs do more than chase them out of their yards or garden


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Around here we have quite a few yotes and we've always managed it by shooting one when it gets too close to the house then they leave us alone for 5 years or so, recently they've been getting more and more bold but we never get the chance to take one down since they won't come within range.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I wasn't talking about the world's dumbest deer that doesn't run
> I have seen them where if you freeze and don't move, deer will stare and stare in your general direction and then slowly, slowing start walking directly towards you. They're definitely not the sharpest knives in the drawer.


I thought the dog in the second video was pretty dumb too lol.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bear bangers People! Don't leave home without it. 
The controlled hazing that @WNGD does is exactly what should be happening in urban areas, letting them get comfy is where trouble starts. Outside of an urban setting you suck it up and protect your own, but that's their land not ours. At least one Canadian province has laws that allow dogs chasing *or harassing *any wildlife or livestock to be shot on sight.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

The famous "Romeo" wolf of Alaska






"Romeo was the most famous wolf in Alaska, a state that has many wild canines. For six years, the uncommon, black-phase gray wolf hung out around Mendenhall Glacier near the capital city of Juneau, roughhousing with dogs and following hikers. He even had his own fan club and his story was told on National Public Radio.Jun 1, 2010"


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Unfortunately, I think Romeo was eventually shot


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

The story of Romeo was incredible. How sad he died the way he did but it does give insight to how dogs may have become domesticated. It was also crazy to see just how much larger wolves are compared to dogs! I’ve seen them on their own but never really got a good feel for just how big an animal they are. Thanks @Jen84 for sharing.


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

WNGD said:


> Again not sure how much it woul d sting through all that fur. But just knowing you can reach out and touch them from 100 feet away might just do the trick


that's where the frozen balls come into play.. they wont break leaving paint, and they will sure as heck sting


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

https://jaymiheimbuch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/WHAT-TO-DO-IF-YOU-ENCOUNTER-A-COYOTE-WHILE-WALKING-YOUR-DOG.pdf


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I ordered these signs just to post along the pond near my house and along my woods where I see the coyotes almost daily. It's near enough to where my neighbor had her dog pinned by two 'yotes a few weeks ago. They will be denning up and having pups shortly and can become even more bold/aggressive so a little proactive/preventative action can't hurt.

If the City won't at least warn people to keep their heads up with children and small dogs in tow, I will.
I'm looking for bear bangers as well but some just imagine some calls to 911 from the "city people" in new subdivisions.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

WNGD said:


> I ordered these signs just to post along the pond near my house and along my woods where I see the coyotes almost daily. It's near enough to where my neighbor had her dog pinned by two 'yotes a few weeks ago. They will be denning up and having pups shortly and can become even more bold/aggressive so a little proactive/preventative action can't hurt.
> 
> If the City won't at least warn people to keep their heads up with children and small dogs in tow, I will.
> I'm looking for bear bangers as well but some just imagine some calls to 911 from the "city people" in new subdivisions.
> ...


Further to this, a warning came up on a FB dog rescue that I follow. A sign has been posted in Caledon, on Matson Drive. A husky was killed today by a pack of coywolves in the area, was loose on its own property but unsupervised. A hard lesson to learn, keep pets close and under control.

CALEDON RESIDENTS















I’ve shared this picture from a private Caledon group on FB. The incident occurred in the Cedar Mills area (Hwy. 50/Old Church/Mt. Hope/Mt.Pleasant). Please keep your fur-children close by and supervised at all times.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Oddly enough, right after I posted the above, I took the boys for their afternoon hike.

Saw my male coyote on my walk, no more than 60 feet away, luckily my dogs were on leash, since I had seen another hiker coming towards us.

Came home to see this on the news; dead dog in Toronto, fenced yard.

'They're like sharks': North York man describes coyote attack that claimed dog - CityNews Toronto

When I googled it to find the news item, this popped up too from last week
Two dogs killed by coyotes in January in Toronto

So combined with what Quinnsmom posted just above, that's 3 dogs and an attacked all within 45 minutes of me in the last 2 weeks. I'm sure there are more unreported.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> If the City won't at least warn people to keep their heads up with children and small dogs in tow, I will.
> I'm looking for bear bangers as well but some just imagine some calls to 911 from the "city people" in new subdivisions.


Get the pistol, not the pen style. The pen is really impossible to fire while holding a dog as it requires two hands. I tried one and found it just awkward. And yes I imagine city folks are gonna think its a gun, lol. Maybe we can haze them off as well?
Orion Bear Deterrent Launcher | Bass Pro Shops

This is the one I have.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

We get them too but it is mating season. I live on a ravine that hooks up to the Credit and we bought the house knowing we back onto a designated wildlife corridor. It’s up to us to be vigilant. I do sometimes wonder at folks who want to live near “nature” then are surprised it’s not the Disney version. Not saying I like this happened but is the solution to kill all the coyotes? Then the rabbits, mice and deer come - and eat all the shrubs, small trees etc. Then the neighbours leave out poison to kill the mice which then kills the owls we have. It’s hard to get balance in such an urbanized environment. This is exactly what happened near me since they quietly culled the coyotes last year.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> Get the pistol, not the pen style. The pen is really impossible to fire while holding a dog as it requires two hands. I tried one and found it just awkward. And yes I imagine city folks are gonna think its a gun, lol. Maybe we can haze them off as well?
> Orion Bear Deterrent Launcher | Bass Pro Shops
> 
> This is the one I have.


Thanks yes that was the style I was looking at, saw you recommend it in another thread 
I normally have to manage the two dogs and hold a nice heavy walking stick. Or else one of these that I clean up the trail dog cr*p with but I think could do some damage if required.

I moved farther away from the city to escape so many people but the city and citiots followed me. About 4 years to move again.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> We get them too but it is mating season. I live on a ravine that hooks up to the Credit and we bought the house knowing we back onto a designated wildlife corridor. It’s up to us to be vigilant. I do sometimes wonder at folks who want to live near “nature” then are surprised it’s not the Disney version. Not saying I like this happened but is the solution to kill all the coyotes? Then the rabbits, mice and deer come - and eat all the shrubs, small trees etc. Then the neighbours leave out poison to kill the mice which then kills the owls we have. It’s hard to get balance in such an urbanized environment. This is exactly what happened near me since they quietly culled the coyotes last year.


No I want nothing to do with killing them. I love the fact that they cut down on mice and am just fine with them cutting into the squirrel population. I just want them regain a healthy fear/respect for people/little children and dogs in fenced yard

We've been building around the ravines in cities for decades but at least anecdotally, yote numbers have been rising exponentially for some reason.

It's a shame that little kids can't play in their own yards and you can't let you dog out for a pee in your own fenced yard for fear of them being eaten. That's a step too far.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

WNGD said:


> They will be denning up and having pups shortly and can become even more bold/aggressive so a little proactive/preventative action can't hurt.


German Shepherd - Calgary, Canada






Momma must not have been around.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

WNGD said:


> No I want nothing to do with killing them. I love the fact that they cut down on mice and am just fine with them cutting into the squirrel population. I just want them regain a healthy fear/respect for people/little children and dogs in fenced yard
> 
> We've been building around the ravines in cities for decades but at least anecdotally, yote numbers have been rising exponentially for some reason.
> 
> It's a shame that little kids can't play in their own yards and you can't let you dog out for a pee in your own fenced yard for fear of them being eaten. That's a step too far.


I certainly agree about the kids and yard issue. It’s hard to know what the solution is. Is the uptick in coyotes just a natural cycle? We had a mange outbreak so they were really low numbers for a few years. Now they seem to be increasing again. While the city culled, I read they were also putting out bait with medication to treat mange. Maybe trying to keep healthy but smaller populations? I do love we live in a city of almost 1MM people and still have this corridor running right through our backyard.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> I certainly agree about the kids and yard issue. It’s hard to know what the solution is. Is the uptick in coyotes just a natural cycle? We had a mange outbreak so they were really low numbers for a few years. Now they seem to be increasing again. While the city culled, I read they were also putting out bait with medication to treat mange. Maybe trying to keep healthy but smaller populations? I do love we live in a city of almost 1MM people and still have this corridor running right through our backyard.


I had never heard of a city actually culling numbers, where do you live, I'm guessing Mississauga?
In anything official that I've read, removing coyotes just results in others moving into their territory in short order. But hopefully ones that aren't as conditioned to people.

The biggest problem we have besides the sheer number of coyotes, is people just watch them or turn around and go the other way when they see them and coyotes have lost all fear of us. And like raccoons, have come to see houses as a source of food (pet food left out, garbage cans, bird feeders attracting squirrels and unfortunately, outdoor cats and small dogs). 

Watching the women on TV last night describing seeing her little dog get snatched was heart breaking.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

What I have read about coyotes is that they regulate their population by food availability - each particular area can only support a given number. In lean years the litters are smaller,less healthy and fewer will survive. When the numbers dwindle, those remaining are healthier, larger,and have larger healthier litters.They are so adaptive to changing environments that there's no effective way (except in the short term) to control the population.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> What I have read about coyotes is that they regulate their population by food availability - each particular area can only support a given number. In lean years the litters are smaller,less healthy and fewer will survive. When the numbers dwindle, those remaining are healthier, larger,and have larger healthier litters.They are so adaptive to changing environments that there's no effective way (except in the short term) to control the population.


You're correct. We had foxes that lived and denned across the ravine from us let us watch their pups playing in the sun every Spring. I was fortunate to see them catch squirrels and let the pups wrestle for dinner, it was pretty cool. But their number rose and fell with the rabbit population and quite predictably. Unfortunately, when the coyote count rose around here about 5 years ago, the foxes moved out.

We still have a very healthy squirrel supply though with 4-6 often somewhere in the yard. I watch a red tail hawk slam one a few days ago and tear into it from a tree by the creek. Rogan was trying to get at the intestines for a day or so  yummy


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## KarmaPuppy (Nov 22, 2019)

with an endless supply of food, coyotes will continue to come to city areas. Stray cats, dogs, and large numbers of mice and rats, not to mention garbage will have them coming in. When those food supplies start to go down, so will their numbers, unless done by other means. 

Best bet is to get people to start standing up to the yotes instead of walking away from them. Hence my suggestions of paintball guns. It wont kill them, but it will give them enough of a startle to start striking that fear into them for sure. I'm not a fan of the animal at all due to my love for fresh venison.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

2014 surveillance video - Coyote prey drive lol - Burlington, Ontario, Canada


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

When we moved here 20years ago the property had been empty for about a year. The house,barn,and land was overrun by multiple species of wildlife. Bats,mice,chipmunks,squirrels, woodchucks, rabbits, deer,turkeys,plus a few carcasses/bones that predators had mostly consumed.We used to have cats,and always have had dogs who discourage them from hanging out here. There's fortunately still plenty of habitat here for the critters without us having to share.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Jen84 said:


> 2014 surveillance video - Coyote prey drive lol - Burlington, Ontario, Canada


That's 2 minutes from me Jen if it's Tyandaga, I know they see them there on the golf course. 
Could well be my coyotes.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

I had the bright idea to play a CD, on the external house speakers, of wolves howling. Thinking it may spook the coyotes, and help keep them away. Next morning the horses were the ones all spooked, they were very skittish, and kept looking towards the house. First and last time I tried that.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

WNGD said:


> That's 2 minutes from me Jen if it's Tyandaga, I know they see them there on the golf course.
> Could well be my coyotes.


Not sure exactly where it was. I don't live near southern Ontario, but I have an old friend from Milton that mentioned the coyotes to me years ago. I didn't realize how big a problem it was getting to be until I read your thread and started doing a little research myself. Pretty interesting. 

"Cooper said the inevitable answer to Ottawa's aggressive coyote problem is the same one he's used for 50 years: tracking hounds and a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with short-range #4 buckshot pellets. 

"This has gone on too long," the veteran coyote hunter said. 

Cooper and his dogs gained a reputation for their ability to outwit the cunning creatures. As a contract hunter for Ontario's Ministry of Natural Resources, he was hired to track down and shoot coyotes lurking near airbase runways, farmers' fields and suburban backyards, a task he executed with deadly success."



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/coyotes-ottawa-hunter-riverside-south-1.5608135


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

Honey Maid said:


> I had the bright idea to play a CD, on the external house speakers, of wolves howling. Thinking it may spook the coyotes, and help keep them away. Next morning the horses were the ones all spooked, they were very skittish, and kept looking towards the house. First and last time I tried that.


Did your dog like it ?

My dog will howl with me like a wolf - he knows when I say the word "sing" lol. This is actually a super way to bond with dog. Go camping, preferably alone, with no tent and just an open fire. You can howl by the fire with your dog. This is a very good exercise especially with hard dogs.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Jen84 said:


> Not sure exactly where it was. I don't live near southern Ontario, but I have an old friend from Milton that mentioned the coyotes to me years ago. I didn't realize how big a problem it was getting to be until I read your thread and started doing a little research myself. Pretty interesting.


yah we had a 120 acre horse farm in Milton just north of the 401 and had a pack of coyotes on the back 20. Never any real issue with them other than setting the dogs off now and again if they ventured around the barns at night. We didn't have any aggressive dogs there but did have a llama that no coyote wanted any part of.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

@Jen84, ya know, I can't quite remember if they howled or not, but I want to say they did not, that they got quiet. At the time we didn't have any Shepherds.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Well - I’m never ceased to be surprised. I went on my weekly exercise walk with a friend and for the first time in years saw a fox! Our neighbours said there used to be lots before the coyotes increased. It was having the greatest time in the snow despite it being incredibly cold. We were only hoping it didn’t try to cross the road we were at. We had just witnessed a lady miss slamming into someone turning off the road. Not paying attention at all.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

The foxes we had denning in the ravine used to come through the yard and tease my last female. Dad also came through and if the dog wasn't out, came back with the pups a few minutes later. The increase in coyotes coincided with a decrease in fox sightings and they no longer den across from me


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

WNGD said:


> The foxes we had denning in the ravine used to come through the yard and tease my last female. Dad also came through and if the dog wasn't out, came back with the pups a few minutes later. The increase in coyotes coincided with a decrease in fox sightings and they no longer den across from me


We’ve lived here 15 years and the last time we saw one was probably close to that. Funny enough my friend lives about 15 minutes west and we see quite a few around her place. But she’s in a town closer to the lake plus there a lot of huge properties there. We still see coyotes there too but I just think there are more safe spaces for the foxes.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Well, call me a proud parent as Rogan graduated this morning and ran off his first coyote.

We were just coming back from our morning walk and he spotted one across the ravine right by the house. I didn't plan on letting him chase them off for a few more months (he's 15 months now) and have to be hyper aware that this is denning season but might as well proof his recall under drive since I can see the whole ravine from up top.

He never got anywhere close to it but that coyote booked it off the hop. I don't think he liked seeing the 100 lb top of the chain coming down with intent. Harley stayed to heel and watched the whole event; too smart to chase rabbits, squirrels and yotes that are already 100 yards away 

Normally, I would have preferred to leash them up and escort that coyote off the property but it was all good. I really need to get out and find those bear bangers.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/woman-bitten-by-coyote-in-stanley-park-faces-months-of-recovery-1.5939622



*Woman bitten by coyote in Stanley Park faces months of recovery*

*Conservation officers say coyotes have become aggressive because they were fed by humans*
CBC News · Posted: Mar 05, 2021 7:40 PM PT | Last Updated: March 5

A jogger who was attacked by a coyote in Vancouver's Stanley Park earlier this year says it will take her six months to recover from her injuries.

Azi Ramezani was bitten on the leg on Jan. 21 as she ran near the Hollow Tree in the early evening. She told CBC News she heard the coyote growling before it sunk its teeth into her right leg.

"When the animal bites you … the teeth go deep into your skin. You hurt, and it's very likely that you'll fall," Ramezani said.

As she fell, her hamstring detached. She's required surgery for her injuries.

"I can't sit, I can't walk. All I can do is stand," Ramezani said.

Since the attack, she's lost her job and moved in with her family in Victoria until she's healthy again.

Ramezani is one of at least 15 people who've been bitten or attacked by coyotes in Stanley Park in recent months. Runners and people moving quickly are the common targets.

About a dozen coyotes live in the park, and conservation officers have warned that some have become aggressive and bold because they've been fed by humans. Two of the animals were captured and killed by conservation officers in late January.










Ramezani doesn't want to see any more animals killed, but she'd like to see the park shut down temporarily while officials figure out how to manage the problem.

The B.C. Conservation Officer Service says that isn't going to happen, but they're asking runners to avoid the park for now and for everyone to stop feeding the coyotes.

Dannie Piezas, urban wildlife programs coordinator at the Stanley Park Ecology Society, said a process called hazing is being used to scare the animals in the hope that humans and coyotes can once again coexist peacefully in the park.

"You can use noisemakers. A whistle is easy enough to carry around with you, but I do suggest something that is more banging," she said.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

2nd round Rogan vs the coyote yesterday. 5:00 in the afternoon, broad daylight.

Mr yote was just hiding lying in the brush waiting for us (5 of us out for a hike with 2 GSD) to walk by and not notice it. I bet people would be amazed how often they walk within 50 feet of them and don't see it. I have seen it both watching and following walkers now. The problem for Mr yote is that German Shepherds don't even need to see you to know you're there.

Both dogs alerted to it and it broke out of the brush right in front of us. You don't don't a 100 lb GSD is agile or fast? You should see this guy under drive 

Through about 5 acres of woods, surprised my neighbor who was out raking and chased it back into the ravine. Came right back under recall.

I'm hoping if he gets hazed a bit more regularly, he'll choose a different hunting area. No sense coming around here all the time just to get chased out by the top of the food chain.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Next door neighbors have a medium sized 10 year old dog, and a younger pup they just adopted. Both Heinz 57 varieties, although they claim the older guy showed Beagle and Pit Bull in his DNA test. Whatever he is, he's kind of a stupid couch potato. I've known him his whole life, petted him at parties at their house, yet every time he sees me in the backyard, he barks and snarls. He is a big cause of the fence fighting and fence jumping described in my separate post. So not a fan favorite here. But, moving on to coyotes and dogs, though not GSDs specifically . . . 

Anyway, earlier this week, the lady was walking the two in the evening, toward dusk. This is in a neighborhood 5-6 miles from the heart of downtown Cincinnati. It was laid out in the 1940s, so it is not a suburban area encroaching where the deer and the coyote play. That said, we have both. The dogs seemed agitated, so she looked back, and saw a smallish, maybe juvenile coyote was trailing behind them, followed by a larger coyote some further distance back (i.e., maybe the size of the one in the picture I posted months back). Her younger dog pulled loose from the lead or from her hand, not sure which. She must have been nervous or did not have a good hold on him because the dog maybe weighs 19-22 ##, tops. He gave chase, and the smaller coyote ran off. Then she was able to call her dog back. She and the two dogs start walking back home. The dogs keep turning around to look back, and she sees the larger of the two coyotes is following them. SO she called her husband (from maybe 3/4 block away, this is a compact neighborhood) to give her a ride.

I start carrying a wrist rocket. I have various relatively quiet coyote dissuaders--compound bow and a high powered quiet-ish air gun. But they would both be illegal to discharge in the city limits, and certainly can't be carried around without neighbors calling the authorities. They'd also put a pretty grievous wound (air gun) or be lethal (bow). While I don't want a pet injured, neither do I want to just wound or kill a wild animal. If I saw a coyote in the backyard, threatening my dogs, that would be different. But that hasn't happened. It would be a brave coyote indeed to come in a fenced yard with maybe 165-170 ## of GSDs.
I'm thinking a wrist rocket type slingshot with some ball bearings or smooth pebbles could get them to be a little less cocky. As noted in a previous post, my wife and I encountered a couple while walking the dogs in the dark, last fall or winter. They did not advance, or follow, but they did not act as scared of humans or large barking dogs as I would like.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Meant to say, "I am thinking about carrying a wrist rocket/slingshot."
Coffee still at work, proofreading is slow this AM . . .


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Dogs have run off our male coyote twice in the last 2 days. Right near the house, standing/laying in the tall grass/bushes around the pond. I can't really tell if he's terrified or enjoying it.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I was out hunting deer and a coyote jumped into the road ahead of us and did a few spins then darted back into the brush. We drove on. As we were coming back, just scouting not hunting yet, we encountered another hunter and stopped for a chat. He mentioned the coyote doing the same thing to him! 

Who knows why, but some are just playful I suppose. If your dogs are only chasing a short distance then coming back, it could very well be that the coyote thinks it's a game.


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Nadja was in heat about a week ago and one morning we woke to two coyotes in the field across the road and another one about 100 yards off our back deck. That little rascal was on my normal walk path, sniffing spots where Nadja had peed the day before and coming ever closer to the house. He didn’t even run when we opened the door and walked out there with the gun... yeah night night Wiley.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Coyote in our neighborhood have taken a few pets, small white fluffy dog one block over, who was constantly unleashed, as well as a few cats that spent nights outside. What I'd call "feeder cats", someone started feeding them, maybe even tamed them enough to get them spayed/neutered, but kept them as an outdoor "pet." Dog was a confirmed coyote victim, cats it is mostly circumstantial evidence based on camera footage of coyotes in that unfenced backyard. 
They have not to my knowledge come inside fenced yards, though I expect they could jump most fences they'd encounter here.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Our school bus stop this morning


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Wow, so crazy.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Whoa!


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Not a big deal here!


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Deers couple of weeks ago-same bus stop.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tim_s_adams said:


> I was out hunting deer and a coyote jumped into the road ahead of us and did a few spins then darted back into the brush. We drove on. As we were coming back, just scouting not hunting yet, we encountered another hunter and stopped for a chat. He mentioned the coyote doing the same thing to him!
> 
> Who knows why, but some are just playful I suppose. If your dogs are only chasing a short distance then coming back, it could very well be that the coyote thinks it's a game.


We had foxes denning in the ravine but clearly in sight of my front door that clearly enjoyed baiting my last female GSD and would actually come through the yard to see if she was out on the porch. I swear the fox smiled at her. 

I actually felt privileged as the foxes would bring the kits out on the hill in the sun and once brought them a squirrel and I watched them run around and fight over it for 20 minutes; great entertainment.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I have seen our coyotes closely following people on the path walking small dogs and I have no doubt they're looking to be opportunistic. I think I mentioned above that a lady further down the ravine from us had her little dog grabbed/pinned in her own backyard but she was able to chase them off. And yah, they'll jump 4 foot fences like nothing.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Since we are sharing bear pictures. My husband thought it would be funny to stick this


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Honey Maid said:


> Since we are sharing bear pictures. My husband thought it would be funny to stick this


That's a big boy(?)

Most of the black bears we get a the cottage "look" to be maybe 150 pounds. I only ever see the females (often with 1-3 cubs) and she tends to run if we're not close. My neighbor across the lake (no dogs) has her in his back yard regularly.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Met my neighbor this morning and she said she saw the male coyote with six (6) pups. No idea if she's correct but if true, I guess we'll have them around for awhile still....or forever.

My daughter was running on the trails last week a mile from here and came upon the coyote parents not 30 feet in front of her. They just stared at her and after a bit, just trotted off. I told her I hoped that isn't near their den but it's very near to where the lady had her dog attacked in her yard


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

We were out two nights ago around 11:30 for a final potty (the dogs, not us...lol) and who comes trotting up the street comfortable as can be as two coyotes, around 45 seconds apart. We're close to a very large park with woods and trails and there is a smaller park just the other side. 

We've seen coyotes in the parks before, and out in the neighbourhood (including while running with our beagle, who weighs 25lbs soaking wet - he's tall for a beagle, but still small enough I worry). The two we saw a couple of nights ago took no notice of us or the dogs.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

We now have fishers behind us. I couldn’t figure out what the screaming sound was I’d hear occasionally but I think it’s them. It scooted along the creek edge last Friday and there was no mistaking it.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> We were out two nights ago around 11:30 for a final potty (the dogs, not us...lol) and who comes trotting up the street comfortable as can be as two coyotes, around 45 seconds apart. We're close to a very large park with woods and trails and there is a smaller park just the other side.
> 
> We've seen coyotes in the parks before, and out in the neighbourhood (including while running with our beagle, who weighs 25lbs soaking wet - he's tall for a beagle, but still small enough I worry). The two we saw a couple of nights ago took no notice of us or the dogs.


Those two need to be hazed, that's the problem, they would definitely attack a beagle if given the opportunity.
As for your personal potty outside, no judgment here


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> We now have fishers behind us. I couldn’t figure out what the screaming sound was I’d hear occasionally but I think it’s them. It scooted along the creek edge last Friday and there was no mistaking it.


Funny I saw one about an hour ago running from the woods to the pond. Tons of rabbits this year too.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Seeing a few more rabbits, and some feral or abandoned cats in my neighborhood. This makes me think the coyote presence is at least not increasing. 
I don't expect they are altogether gone, though. Neighbor saw one in daylight about a month ago.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Those two need to be hazed, that's the problem, they would definitely attack a beagle if given the opportunity.
> As for your personal potty outside, no judgment here


Yeah when I saw the one running with our beagle, I stopped running and walked backwards for awhile to see if it was behind/stalking us. When it didn't appear, I turned and sprinted home with the occasional backwards check just to be sure.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> Yeah when I saw the one running with our beagle, I stopped running and walked backwards for awhile to see if it was behind/stalking us. When it didn't appear, I turned and sprinted home with the occasional backwards check just to be sure.


I carry a very heavy stick and hike with 185 pounds of German Shepherd beside me....let's play Mr. Coyote.....I have never seen them not run when they see us and I have run them off with the dogs beside me and also just me solo. They just need to learn respect.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Let's hope your coyotes don't take delivery of newer, better ACME devices that actually work 🤣


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> I carry a very heavy stick and hike with 185 pounds of German Shepherd beside me....let's play Mr. Coyote.....I have never seen them not run when they see us and I have run them off with the dogs beside me and also just me solo. They just need to learn respect.
> View attachment 574603


Xerxes the Attack Beagle thinks he's 185lbs of German Shepherd haha. 

(The one we saw while running went between houses and near as I could tell kept going - and the two the other night were oblivious to us and we were up in the complex, just watching them go past. Might work chasing them off with just Agis (or Agis plus Xerxes) but with our 13 year old Husky mix there we'd just totter after them ineffectually. I have friends who have been stalked by them while running and if that happened to me...man would the coyotes be leaving unhappily.)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> Let's hope your coyotes don't take delivery of newer, better ACME devices that actually work 🤣


Road Runner is always a step ahead....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Little girl bitten by an unprovoked coyote just north of Toronto in Ontario, likely triggered by her running.
Authorities advise "making loud noise" to scare it off if (when) they see it again". 
....Nope. You shoot an unprovoked biter.








Caught on cam: Coyote attacks girl in backyard


Two children were in their backyard in Aurora, Ont., when a coyote lunged at one of them before being chased off by their father.




www.ctvnews.ca





Multiple attacks in Ottawa








Coyote attacks continue


More coyote attacks have been reported in the Riverside South and Manotick areas. CTV's Tyler Fleming has more on what the city is doing.




ottawa.ctvnews.ca





Close call in Markham (north of Toronto)








Women fends off coyote attack with shovel


A Markham woman chose a snow shovel as a weapon when a coyote lunged at a neighbour and her dog. Scott Lightfoot reports.




toronto.ctvnews.ca





Out in Calgary, multiple attacks, likely one coyote


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-coyote-attacks-1.6073999



Cambridge, West of Toronto. Love the City mouthpiece saying "this is a one off" as I scan dozens of links to coyote biting incidents








Dog owners warned after coyote attack


From CTV Kitchener’s Maleeha Sheikh: A family of coyotes seems to be causing trouble in Cambridge’s Churchill Park.




toronto.ctvnews.ca





Calgary, guy gets his tiny dog back and performs CPR to bring him back. Vet says attackes aren't that rare.








Owner comes to the rescue of dog under attack by coyotes


Watch: A Calgary dog owner went above and beyond to keep his pooch from becoming a coyote's meal. Stephanie Thomas reports.




northernontario.ctvnews.ca





BC. 100+ stitches on a 3 year old








Owner comes to the rescue of dog under attack by coyotes


Watch: A Calgary dog owner went above and beyond to keep his pooch from becoming a coyote's meal. Stephanie Thomas reports.




northernontario.ctvnews.ca





Similarities in all these cases? 
Some are right in subdivisions, some directly in back yards, some along trails but in town. No "wilderness" to be found. All involve smaller dogs or children, unprovoked attacks except by opportunistic predators.

I have watched them follow people on the trails right by my house, watched them hunker down in the long grass while people with strollers pass 20 feet away, talked to people whose dogs were attacked in their yards. 

They don't sit and watch me (that I know of). 
They don't follow me. 
They don't approach me.

Between me and 2 GSD, we're 400 pounds of bad attitude ....


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Yikes!


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## AboutAbby (Jun 19, 2021)

Within 6 blocks of my home in my small Arizona town, we have Coyotes the size of my 15 week old Abby, rattlesnakes, javelinas ( I just saw mom and baby last week this is NOT my photo but stock)







Scorpions, black bear spotted in town (pics shown in local paper) and most fearful of all humans who would take my Abby in a second. p.s. forgot the skunks that got into my enclosed front porch, I USED to leave the outside door open for the cats. Not any more and so many other critters.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

WNGD said:


> Little girl bitten by an unprovoked coyote just north of Toronto in Ontario, likely triggered by her running.
> Authorities advise "making loud noise" to scare it off if (when) they see it again".
> ....Nope. You shoot an unprovoked biter.
> 
> ...


For me, when it gets to this point it's time to do some hunting!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

AboutAbby said:


> Within 6 blocks of my home in my small Arizona town, we have Coyotes the size of my 15 week old Abby, rattlesnakes, javelinas ( I just saw mom and baby last week this is NOT my photo but stock)
> View attachment 575294
> Scorpions, black bear spotted in town (pics shown in local paper) and most fearful of all humans who would take my Abby in a second. p.s. forgot the skunks that got into my enclosed front porch, I USED to leave the outside door open for the cats. Not any more and so many other critters.


Yah, we've had 3 rattlesnake sightings at our cottage (other side of the lake from us but doesn't matter) already this year where we heard of none for the last 50 years. I saw one big one last year that the dogs instinctively gave a wide berth. We have bears up there and the occasional Bobcat/Lynx, nothing I'm worried about. I have baby raccoons in my wood shed right now but I'm not disturbing them since they've already there and very little. The dogs are always circling the shed and I assume Momma **** will move them out as soon as she can. Happened once before and we watched her carry them out to the woods.

I haven't seen our coyotes around the house in a few weeks but my neighbor says she saw one with 6 pups (may explain why they're avoiding my neck of the woods)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

tim_s_adams said:


> For me, when it gets to this point it's time to do some hunting!


Yup, like I keep saying I love seeing them in the wild but the ones around here are VERY bold now and I wouldn't hesitate to crack one open if they approached my dog(s). I very much expect to have to help someone with a small dog on the trails one of these days.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Just about everything I own that could be employed against coyotes is illegal to touch off in my city. 
Perhaps a wrist rocket type slingshot is not on the list, I'd have to check. But pellet guns, bows and of course, firearms cannot be discharged in city limits. 
The drafters of the ordinance were trying to cover (and forbid discharge) of everything they could think of. 
You might get by with saving your pet or another human in an emergency, and in that situation, I'd rather take care of family first, ask permission later. 

My wife and I hope to close on a property with 59 acres in July, if all goes according to plan. Much of it pasture, maybe 5 acres of woods. 
I'm sure it has at least some coyote traffic. If they remain on good behavior, that's all right. If not, we'll typically b have some coyote dissuader handy. 
We plan to install a chicken coop. That may be the first test.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

I hope our coyotes circle back soon. The rabbits are completely out of control. They decimated my garden over the last few nights.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

And we have these!)
The turtle was saved from the road and released at the pond later.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Lexie’s mom said:


> And we have these!)
> The turtle was saved from the road and released at the pond later.
> View attachment 575386
> View attachment 575387


Us too but a lot of distemper right now!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I have a friend that has more trouble keeping raccoons out of the chicken coop than fox or coyote.Clever little guys will search out weak spots and pry back wood and wire.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Our likes cookies!)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> I hope our coyotes circle back soon. The rabbits are completely out of control. They decimated my garden over the last few nights.


I'll gladly Uber a few of mine over to your neighborhood ....but yah this is a big year for rabbits all over


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## Davycc (Jun 16, 2021)

No coyotes, wolves, *****, cougars, snakes, bears etc here. We do have to trade off spectacular wilderness and trails though.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

My boys confronted another kind of predator near the pond  
Smart enough to stay behind it they are....


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Lexie’s mom said:


> And we have these!)
> The turtle was saved from the road and released at the pond later.
> View attachment 575386
> View attachment 575387


We got those masked bandits too, one keeps eating the cat food no matter how hard we try, those stinkers.


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## Davycc (Jun 16, 2021)

Saw my post had been edited but didn’t know why so googled it. I’m so sorry if I offended anyone, I wasn’t aware of the offensive nature of the word. I know ignorance of no excuse but I did not intend to offend, again apologies.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Lexie’s mom said:


> Our likes cookies!)
> View attachment 575388


Oh **** no. I don't want them near our property.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My dogs barked through a window and chased off a group of howling coyotes the other night, but two neighbors lost pets, one during the day. They just picked them up and ran off with them. They were medium sized, one dog and one cat. It was terrible.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

We have moved to a 59 acre farm, but are still getting our old house in the city ready to sell. Guess where we actually see more coyotes--the city neighborhood.

They have taken one small dog and a couple of cats in the last year and a half. Reportedly, the neighbor behind me encountered three last week while he was taking out his trash, and they walked toward him. He is a pretty fit younger guy, former college volleyball player. My two dogs go ballistic when they see one on our walks. They live in a wooded ravine area behind the neighborhood, best we can tell.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

People feed them either on purpose or by feeding outdoor pets, or just leaving food accessible to them. They have become fearless.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> People feed them either on purpose or by feeding outdoor pets, or just leaving food accessible to them. They have become fearless.


Thousands of squirrels and plenty of outdoor cats are the main culprits around here. Oddly enough, maybe due to the trees fully filled in as much as anything, we haven't seen any in the last month of so since the locals had their Spring litter. Likely thinking they don't want even young-ish ones near my place and smart thinking on their part for that one.

I put two coyote warning signs up along the trail near me and one was taken down/stolen the first night.....


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> I put two coyote warning signs up along the trail near me and one was taken down/stolen the first night.....


Coyotes aren’t smart enough to remove the sign, so it was a supporter (joking,of course, but still). Why wouldn’t they want people warned? We have a local website. Most want the coyotes gone but a vocal group want them protected and blame the people.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Coyotes aren’t smart enough to remove the sign, so it was a supporter (joking,of course, but still). Why wouldn’t they want people warned? We have a local website. Most want the coyotes gone but a vocal group want them protected and blame the people.


I just want them to stay wild and stay in the woods not between the houses, not following people on trails and not snatching small pets. None of which I blame them for but yes, they have become far to acclimatized to people and free opportunistic meals.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> People feed them either on purpose or by feeding outdoor pets, or just leaving food accessible to them.


Now that you mention it, one thing puzzling in my old neighborhood is that the coyotes do not seem to scavenge trash cans. It would be a pretty target rich environment if they did, but I haven't seen any evidence of it with my own cans or any neighbor's. There may be a few cats that get their pet food outdoors. The rabbit population fluctuates a lot. You'll see a lot of rabbits, then a few weeks later, wonder where all the rabbits went.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Squidwardp said:


> Now that you mention it, one thing puzzling in my old neighborhood is that the coyotes do not seem to scavenge trash cans. It would be a pretty target rich environment if they did, but I haven't seen any evidence of it with my own cans or any neighbor's. There may be a few cats that get their pet food outdoors. The rabbit population fluctuates a lot. You'll see a lot of rabbits, then a few weeks later, wonder where all the rabbits went.


We have wild rabbits. Maybe that is their food source. I didn’t think about that. And of course all the small pets they snatch. A lot have been taken the last year. It’s very bad to the point that people with small dogs don’t leave them outside at all, ever. I take mine out on leash at night and I have a big pushbroom nearby in cash I need to fight one off, if I even could.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

We hunt coyote in these parts all year long. They have no natural predators left, no real competition for food and the population would explode without management. When we lived in the country, I took around 8 a year. Just the ones that came up around the house. Valor and I come across them occasionally when hiking, particularly in State Parks where hunting is prohibited and wildlife is plentiful, but they don't come close at all. I always carry a firearm just in case but haven't had the need to deal with any other than observation.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

The thing about coyotes is that if you kill the "wrong" one within a finite area, it triggers the rest of the females to come into heat, rapidly. So instead of one litter in one calendar year, you can easily get four or five or six or more. 

I'm not against the removal of known problem animals. I've had to do it, I'm within my legal rights to do it, and I'm sure it'll happen again at some point. But I've watched coyote population *explosions *after resident pack dynamic is interrupted. 

One of my mentors - big working sheep farm - told me years ago that she is not worried at all about the coyotes that live in the side of her hill, near her flock and her lambs. She said the only reason she will have a problem is if someone kills the female, sending her daughters/sisters all into heat at the same time, and throwing the equilibrium out of balance. Too many mouths to feed = livestock predation.

I have livestock at two properties right now, about ten miles apart. One has resident coyotes, the other has foxes. Hazing, harassment, containment (of pets and livestock), and being aware of predator behavior goes a long way.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

WIBackpacker said:


> The thing about coyotes is that if you kill the "wrong" one within a finite area, it triggers the rest of the females to come into heat, rapidly. So instead of one litter in one calendar year, you can easily get four or five or six or more.


Interesting. The coyote population in my urban neighborhood seems to be stable. They surface from time to time, and gradually get bolder, but I would not say we have had any kind of population explosion. Of course, no one in the neighborhood has hunted them. I would agree they have few natural predators, and none other than man in the part of the world where I live. Farther out west, wolves can and do kill coyotes. 
I wonder what the young pups do once they get old enough to be independent? Seek new territory?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WIBackpacker said:


> The thing about coyotes is that if you kill the "wrong" one within a finite area, it triggers the rest of the females to come into heat, rapidly. So instead of one litter in one calendar year, you can easily get four or five or six or more.
> 
> I'm not against the removal of known problem animals. I've had to do it, I'm within my legal rights to do it, and I'm sure it'll happen again at some point. But I've watched coyote population *explosions *after resident pack dynamic is interrupted.
> 
> ...


Wow. That is great information. Thanks for sharing!


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Still no coyote sightings at the new place in the country. As to predators of another sort, though--there is a lot of open pasture, bounded by some hilly woods on another person's land. Good hunting ground for hawks, and I've seen and heard a few. Compared to my now up-for-sale city house, I see almost no songbirds, despite hanging a feeder close to a pond. A lot of what look to be some kind of fly catchers swoop around, but they are fast and nimble. I think the songbirds, and maybe squirrels and chipmunks as well know that the open grassy area is a hawk danger zone. 
I'd miss the songbirds. Squirrels and chipmunks have always stolen half my garden produce, and raided my bird feeders,so I wouldn't miss them at all.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We would go to jail for killing a coyote or using a gun. They will remove a coyote if it harms a person if they can isolate the offender. Otherwise they recommend hazing here too. High powered water jets, noise. I haven’t seen any in our yard and I think the scent of the big dogs scares them off.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

If you have shrubs or trees near your house try locating the feeder within a few yards of those. The birds feel safer when they can dart in and out.I only feed birds in the winter because all of the seed thieves are not so active then,except deer.
The fly catchers might be swallows.They are really fun to watch. Sometimes there will be literally hundreds of them swooping around together. My guess is some sort of major insect hatch is going on?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Squidwardp said:


> Interesting. The coyote population in my urban neighborhood seems to be stable. They surface from time to time, and gradually get bolder, but I would not say we have had any kind of population explosion. Of course, no one in the neighborhood has hunted them. I would agree they have few natural predators, and none other than man in the part of the world where I live. Farther out west, wolves can and do kill coyotes.
> I wonder what the young pups do once they get old enough to be independent? Seek new territory?


Yes.
Like most other pack animals, when the pack gets too big to feed or the adolescents get too old, they move on out to fill other territories and breed on their own. Our local coyotes were just three that I know of but had 6 pups this Spring....I doubt we'll see 9 of them for too long.

And I can tell your firsthand from countless encounters that they move off to a different area of their territory when my dogs are in the woods.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

"Attacks are not rare: in Canada so far in 2021, 54 people have been harassed or bitten by coyotes. In contrast, the U.S. has had 38 reported attacks."

Of course the numbers are much much higher since most people no longer bother to report anything but a mauling or death. I think I mentioned before that my neighbor called the City to report her dog had been attacked in her own back yard and was told "Maybe you shouldn't have moved to the country".... no report taken, no data collected.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-coyote-sightings-increased-1.6116929



A coyote attack earlier this week in Scarborough left one dog with serious injuries.

Dorothy Kwan's daughter Lily Kwan, 10, took their little Yorkshire Terrier Macy out for a walk and wound up being chased by a coyote. The dog attempted to fight off the coyote while protecting Lily, but was left with extensive injuries and underwent surgery.

"This is a walk she's done many, many times," Kwan said. "It's extremely concerning, just prior to this incident I found out in a nearby park a coyote had approached a child and had bitten them."

Toronto's data on coyote attacks shows that as of July 21, coyotes have attacked 10 dogs, of which five have died. That's up from nine attacks in 2020, one of which was fatal.

With the number of attacks already reaching the total number last year, many residents like Kwan have safety concerns in their own neighbourhoods.

Nature Conservancy of Canada spokesperson Andrew Holland said the pandemic has resulted in increased numbers of wildlife moving into urban areas.

"In the last 16 months, we've noticed a lot more wildlife in our communities," Holland said. "It's certainly not uncommon for coyotes to come out into urban areas to look for food sources."

Scarborough Centre city councillor Michael Thompson says the incident with Kwan's dog was "regrettable" and said the city encourages people to protect themselves from wild animals. 

He said signage warning people of coyotes is "something we'd have to look at."

Across the Greater Toronto Area, more cities are also reporting increases.

In Mississauga, there have been 12 attacks as of July 22, up from 13 total in 2020. In Vaughan, there have been three as of July 22, up from seven total in 2020..

The city of Toronto says most interactions with coyotes are a result of a nearby food source. It warns residents not to feed coyotes and not to leave food, including pet food, outside.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I read that on the CBC...never have I been so impressed at the character of a Yorkie. It's getting to the point I worry more about coyotes on morning runs with the Xerxes the Attack Beagle then I do skunks (my previous concern of choice).


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

There has been virtually zero activity in our area of Mississauga and I live very close to the Credit River. Two years ago the howling went on every night. But now we have a plague of rabbits. I found a nest in my garden on the weekend. They’ve totally wiped out my veggies plus a bunch of flowers and all the neighbours are complaining plants are being decimated. Rabbits may be “cuter” but they’re certainly more destructive. That’s also a sure sign the coyotes are not nearby. Every other year there were many rabbits, the coyotes came by and took care of the problem. I’ve seen so many little baby rabbits this year it’s crazy. They’re all over the place.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Yup rabbit are certainly multiplying this year as they do every X years. We also had a net of baby bunnies in a round garden in the middle of our yard with 2 GSD running around loose, go figure.

But it's a cycle and the foxes return, the coyote numbers ramp up (evidently our local pair had 6 pups this past Spring) and the rabbit numbers plummet only to repeat the cycle. They can be destructive but personally, I'll take the bunnies ..... who have never attacked my dog lol


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Now I really need those coyotes. I noticed a new grass clump where I thought I broke up the bunny nest a few days ago. When I went to move it again, there are now baby bunnies in there. Holy cow she remade it fast. It wasn’t there yesterday. I’m too soft hearted to dispose of them even though I know they’re pests and Django has no clue they’re even there so he’s not up to the job lol. I guess this year is a garden write off. Next year - chicken wire!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Aww,baby bunniesAnother adorable pest are chipmunks. They can burrow under or climb over fencing and take little bites out of everything. I don't mind sharing if they would just take a few pieces instead of grazing. The little brats like to tease the dogs too,chattering away just out of reach up a tree.A couple of overconfident chipmunks have met their demise misjudging Misty's hunting/climbing skills.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> Aww,baby bunniesAnother adorable pest are chipmunks. They can burrow under or climb over fencing and take little bites out of everything. I don't mind sharing if they would just take a few pieces instead of grazing. The little brats like to tease the dogs too,chattering away just out of reach up a tree.A couple of overconfident chipmunks have met their demise misjudging Misty's hunting/climbing skills.


Chipmunks aren't great climbers unlike their more pesty rodent cousins the red squirrel (100X the destruction of chipmunks) and can sometimes fall out of trees with the right dog encouragement.....

We live with a lot of trees and woods around us and can sometimes count 5-6-7 squirrels on the lawn to drive the dogs crazy. It's good for the hawk's hunting ground too ..... this years bunny visited the side garden this afternoon


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

The chipmunk fortunately moved two houses down lol. My immediate next door neighbour was trying to trap it but stopped after it moved on.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Strange we haven't seen the coyotes in about a month (except my neighbor said an adult and the litter were on her lawn (backing onto woods) a few weeks back. I guessed they don't want to bring the younger ones near my house with the two dogs often off-leash.

But we were walking along the pond yesterday morning early and one popped out of the long grass about 100 feet in front of us, took one look at the dogs and started running away. Rogan ran it off into the woods again and recalled well. He's even recalling well off rabbits which is a big tease for them; tons around right now which of course brings in the coyotes....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I feel like I missed out on a great opportunity last night. 
My wife and I were up at the cottage with our two GSD last Sunday to Friday, great hot sunny weather, lake is warm, fish were cooperating, spent some time visiting different friends we didn't get to see much during last Summer's COVID issues. Was a nice break.

She turned around and went back up with my daughter last night for a few days, just the two of them. Neighbor came over today to say a black bear had tried to get into their locked metal garbage bin and threw it around like a toy about 4:00 AM. My wife said she now knows it wasn't a raccoon in our recycling box outside the back door 
Only stuff that is rinsed and clean is in there but evidently enough to interest the big bad black bear.

We haven't had a bear come right down to the cottage (that I know) in a decade or more although we occasionally seem them on the road in or hear of them seen around the lake, raiding bird feeders or getting into garbage that renters don't store properly. 

I really wish I had been up there and would have been good to see how the boys would react to Yogi outside and I'm fairly confident it wouldn't get to the house without raising the ire of the hounds....whenever we have seen them before, Harley has lit them up and they turn tail just about as fast as they can. Thankfully haven't come across Momma and cubs together.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Oh geez. Just took the dogs out into the 'inner' complex (accesses two roads, but it's central to all the buildings) for a quick nighttime potty. I took Agis and Neb, our eldest (13.5 years oldish) down the elevators (Neb struggles with stairs) and my husband went down the stairs with Xerxes the Attack Beagle (who does not excel at the lobby). Got out - where are Toby and Xerxes? Cross the median over onto the grassy area near a path behind some cars. 

Then I hear Toby and a friend who has a toy poodle...'Watch out for the coyote, right in front of you!' Uhh, where? Seconds later, ~4 metres away is a coyote who looked around Agis height (perhaps not as muscular but Agis is over 50lbs, this was a good sized coyote). Coyote trots by unphased. I considered seeing if Agis would react, but I also have an elderly dog and I don't know how habituated the darned thing is. It passes by, I walk over to my husband, Xerxes, and our friend Sue with TinTin. A cyclist who had warned Sue it was behind her and TinTin came by and said, I've got a toy dog too, and I've seen this one around, it's bold. He rode around and said it was gone, but Sue still cut TinTin's nighttime outdoor time short. 

I've seen coyotes walking down the street here, and crossing into yards out on runs, but that coyote was close. I still have some adrenaline from it being so near. 

Xerxes the Attack Beagle did have a grand old time following the coyote's scent around the complex lawns.


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

I remember reading through this thread shortly before we brought our first GSD home, and wondering how she would handle the local wildlife (raccoons, deer, squirrels, a few coyotes).

Well, I came back here to share that me and Annie were walking past a small wooded area separating our neighborhood from another one at 4:30am this morning and I spotted 3 female deer about 25 feet away. I stopped and stood still and Annie barely acknowledged them! No growling, whining, or excitement. She definitely saw them and got a good sniff though. She gets more worked up about birds in the sky!

Maybe she just didn't feel threatened by the ungulates and had no desire to chase/kill/eat them!? She knew they weren't a threat for sure. I expected some "drama" from the whole episode but it was boring  . Annie is alot more cautious and careful in the dark, so that probably played into it a bit.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Rabbits are what make my dogs crazy.Deer poop is much more interesting than the actual deer 🤣


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

dogma13 said:


> Rabbits are what make my dogs crazy.Deer poop is much more interesting than the actual deer 🤣


How could I have forgotten about those da*m rabbits  .


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The only predators here would be foxes and hawks and have to to watch the chihuahua. Not that wild turkeys are predators but they can be pretty agressive with each other and have to weigh about 30 lbs or more. Watching turkeys fight is quite a site to see. Always had wild turkeys in the yard that would visit the yard on occasssion looking for left over seeds from the bird feeder. They were not much of a pest and pretty cool to see. When Bella my King Charles was at her end, the wild turkeys seems to slowly invade the yard. It was interesting how they sensed her weakness. Once Bella passed away and we only had Topper our chihuahua the wild Turkeys took over the back yard . They could not be chased away by me no matter what I did. I cleaned up turkey poop daily. Getting Max as a pup he would watch them stand his ground and just seem to study them. Not in a menacing way and would not bark but just intently watch them. He seemed to know as an 8 week old pup he was out numbered. The wild turkeys disregarded the small little pup that was studying their every move. As max grew the wild turkeys became less and less around. Real quick the turkeys learned to stay away from the backyard for good. The wild turkeys will walk by check out the house but not one will set foot in the back yard.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Recently completed a move from small urban lot to 59 acres. At first, we weren't seeing a lot of wildlife except for hawks and barn swallows. Previous owner is, for the time being, keeping his 28 cows on the premises. They likely depart in November.

Anyway, starting last week, we've seen one red fox, crossing the dam of the stock pond; rabbit; deer; and finally, yesterday, a coyote who trotted through a pasture. We were able to keep a line of sight on him as he crossed part of our land, then went right through some of the neighbor's cow herd. Probably 300-400 yards away, at the closest point. 


We also saw a coyote cross a country road in daylight, maybe 8:00 AM Saturday morning.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I have no idea why (at first I though they were keeping this Spring's pups far away from us, could still be the case) but we haven't seen any coyotes this Summer at all. With Harley not being coyote friendly, they're the only thing he snarls at and Rogan being fully 110 pounds and nearly two years, they just might be smart enough to stay away. Plus, I've run them off enough and hurled enough things at them that maybe they're getting the message to skirt this property. 

Coyotes have to be hazed, period. There's no other way to keep them on their toes and I haven't seen one yet that will stand its ground with a 200 pound man and a 100 pound GSD coming at them. They don't like being followed and I have done that dozens of times for thousands of yards; they're just like any canidae/canid and will avoid situations they repeatedly find uncomfortable.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Funny a few people mentioned rabbits above.
This has been the expected Summer of rabbits, they are everywhere and often don't move until you're very close on the trails. The grass and wildflowers around the 3 acre pond beside me is very long and thick and they can disappear into it at the last second and still be pretty safe and get away. 

This morning I was coming back from our morning walk, almost home and I snapped Rogan on the long line where we come around a blind corner. Harley was 20 feet ahead, suddenly stiffened up the way they do when there's a person/dog/squirrel in sight and began to break so I knew it was wildlife. I gave him a quick "Harley, come!" and he stopped on a dime and came to heel. He always does but I'm still impressed with him every time. I rounded the corner to see what he had in sight and there was a nice fat rabbit maybe 30 feet away. Then I let them run it  and have a good sniff-fest. Rabbits and squirrels are active and absolutely everywhere right now.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Somewhere months ago in this thread I mentioned I hadn't seen our coyotes in quite a long time and then on cue, I saw one the next day. 

So I should have known better yesterday than to say that I hadn't seen them again all Summer.
Walking the dogs this morning about 7:45 and I look up and there he is at the other end of the pond. As soon as he saw us, he started trotting away looking back over his shoulder every few steps. Rogan (leashed) went nuts, let out a huge bark and Harley ran up from behind. At that point the coyote started running away around a corner 100 feet further away and that's the last I saw him.

I don't know what it is about the sight/smell of coyotes but the dogs get very angry and agitated. I don't need to tell most of you how strong a determined GSD is when they bulldoze on a leash. It's just good to see the yotes still want nothing to do with us.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

We just don’t have coyotes around much this year. Normally we hear them almost nightly but this year virtually nothing! Our city has an interactive map to report sightings and there’s nothing for our neighbourhood. Rabbits on the other hand are a plague. And now skunks are around like crazy. Django went mental the other night and I saw a massive skunk going by our neighbour’s side yard. Thank goodness for the fence or we’d be dealing with stinky puppy.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I've seen skunks actually chase dogs in broad daylight. Stamp their feet, run at them again. Stinky little buggers


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I'm starting to wonder about the squirrels around here. 

We saw one this week eating another (dead) squirrel. I knew they are omnivores, but the cannibalism...yuck. The (live) squirrel saw us and its body language just dared us at our own peril to try to take the dead one away.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I really should learn to keep my mouth shut when I say that I haven't seen the coyotes for a long time; there he was again this morning about 8:00 am exact same spot other end of the pond. I yell at it to get lost, Rogan goes nuts and I let Harley run it off. Came back with perfect recall, good boy. Dogs are filled with adrenaline the rest of the walk, not the easiest way to start the day.

While this is all happening, I see the two older ladies coming from the other side of the coyote. They said at first they thought Mr Yote was one of my dogs and then thought I might have had 3 with me. They were very appreciative that we happened to be there and gave Harley lots of pets 

Hopefully that keeps Mr Yote away again for awhile, this is our hunting area....


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

I didn’t see signs of coyotes for ages but a few days ago saw some poop that’s definitely coyote. Django also found (and consumed) the remains of what looks like a rabbit. Blech. I’m going to have to be more vigilant when I walk him in that area which is a shame as it’s very quiet so perfect for us to work on obedience without a lot of distractions and to to just let off some steam.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Hey Cagal, funny you posted this today because my son dropped by this afternoon for a walk with my Granddaughter (1). I happened to be looking way down the trail maybe 100 yards ahead as we walked along our pond and there was Mr coyote. He immediately started trotting in the opposite direction but I leashed up both dogs and turned around (no sense in pushing it to get the dogs worked up with the baby with us). I'm glad Mr yote has the good sense to want nothing to do with two GSD but we're seeing him far far far too often. 

I chatted with two older ladies that I see often on my morning walks that had seen them in their yards mid day twice this week. My area backs onto a lot of wooded areas and Bruce Trail so it's just a reality that they're here. Only a matter of time until a tragedy too....flippin' things are not scared and not shy and not hiding


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

@WNGD I was at a friend’s house a few days ago and the coyotes were crazy at her place and she’s 10 minutes from me (she backs onto a golf course near the Credit). Her GSD was going mental. I live near a hydro corridor and they’re doing a lot of work there so I think their habitat has been disrupted by my house which has just made them temporarily move, I’m going to have to be more watchful for sure. I like to take him really early on our walk to keep triggers down but I may need to rethink that.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

It's funny how Valor reacts to coyote scent when we are out. He hackles and gets mad immediately, searching around for them. He ran one the other day at a park we hadn't visited in months. He's not a fan


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> @WNGD I was at a friend’s house a few days ago and the coyotes were crazy at her place and she’s 10 minutes from me (she backs onto a golf course near the Credit). Her GSD was going mental. I live near a hydro corridor and they’re doing a lot of work there so I think their habitat has been disrupted by my house which has just made them temporarily move, I’m going to have to be more watchful for sure. I like to take him really early on our walk to keep triggers down but I may need to rethink that.


Be careful if you're off leash. The ravines at Ford Dr/8th Line and Upper Middle in Oakville, the ravines in Tyandaga in Burlington, lots in Milton. Their numbers have really exploded this year, not sure why.

We're seeing them mid day quite a bit now on the trails right among the houses but very often between 7:30-8:00 AM. It's kinda ruining my morning hikes since I have to be hyper vigilant now. We had one laying down in long grass not 50 feet from us, I guess thinking we'd walk by somehow. Harley sprung it, Rogan nearly tore my arm off and I had a minor heart attack


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> It's funny how Valor reacts to coyote scent when we are out. He hackles and gets mad immediately, searching around for them. He ran one the other day at a park we hadn't visited in months. He's not a fan


Exactly.
When we come across turkey, fox, rabbit, squirrels, deer scent or scat, the noses go down, they start coursing and get excited in a good/fun way. 

When we cross coyote scent, hackles immediate go up and they get agitated and pissed off. Harley goes from happy-go-lucky to demon in a heartbeat. Rogan would be nowhere near fast enough (no GSD are btw) but wants to send a message anyway.

I keep thinking the yotes would be smart enough to avoid this little neck of the woods since there's literally 600 miles of trails out my back door they could be on without any other top-of-the-food-chain around. But nope, they're close by and often.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

WNGD said:


> Be careful if you're off leash. The ravines at Ford Dr/8th Line and Upper Middle in Oakville, the ravines in Tyandaga in Burlington, lots in Milton. Their numbers have really exploded this year, not sure why.



Just a personal observation in my area, the rabbit population is up significantly this year, bunnies all over everyone's lawns in the evenings. The coyotes follow the food supply and we are hearing them regularly at night. We back on to conservation area plus a golf course and don't see any of the critters but once the golf course closes for the season my husband is allowed to walk Remy there and may have to be more observant and proactive about hazing. Are you seeing a lot of rabbits in your area?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Rabbits are way up this year


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Rabbits way up this year for sure! It was definitely rabbit bits we found. No signs at all of the deer yet but they’re patchy. One year I found a heron leg. That was disturbing. We have a small creek out back and there was a heron with a chick. I always wondered if they got the chick. I’m not sure how Django will react. He freaked at the skunk which fortunately was on the other side of the fence so it just moved on. Hunter hated coyotes. He used to bark at my kitchen window which overlooks the creek so I always knew when one would come trotting by.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Quinnsmom said:


> Just a personal observation in my area, the rabbit population is up significantly this year, bunnies all over everyone's lawns in the evenings. The coyotes follow the food supply and we are hearing them regularly at night. We back on to conservation area plus a golf course and don't see any of the critters but once the golf course closes for the season my husband is allowed to walk Remy there and may have to be more observant and proactive about hazing. Are you seeing a lot of rabbits in your area?


Yes rabbit population is WAY up, seems all over by the comments here. We usually see 2-3 on a 20 minute morning walk and then they don't run off into the long grass until we're 50 feet away. I'm still seeing coyotes way more often than I have all Summer and we had a nice deer cruise through the yard this morning. Squirrel activity is WAY up too. 

It's coyote Heaven unfortunately.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Weird story today, could be something to be concerned about or not. I have been seeing coyotes many times per week suddenly, at least every other day.

My daughter took both dogs on a walk today, mid afternoon, sunny and warm for mid November (low 70's). She was walking along the huge pond near us where we start several times per day, Rogan on a long line, Harley off leash. Grass and wildflowers are still very long right now, 3-4 feet high, perfect cover.

Harley suddenly alerted and took off into the grass and sprung the female coyote, not 40 feet away. Rogan bolted after them which he wouldn't do with me but pulled the leash from my daughter's hands. She heard a bunch of crashing through the brush and walked in after them when suddenly, Harley reappeared and came right back and sat beside her facing the bush. Rogan came out a minute later and did the same. She said it seemed so weird that they just sat beside her, hackles up but not really agitated.

She looked and could see the coyote circle back and was staring at them. She yelled at it to get lost but it just kept staring. This pisses me off because she had run into a pair of them while jogging before and they just stood their ground staring at her for minutes. It's funny for the dogs not to run it again, almost like they knew the priority was my daughter.

But the bloody thing started barking like a dog at her, over and over and loud. She swears another 1 or two answered it from across the pond but it eventually turned tail after Harley stood up to challenge it again.

She came home and told me (actually called me twice from the trail but I was otp). When she told me what happened, I decided to take a hike down the trail and see if I could catch up to it without the dogs since it's easier for me to haze them without them chasing them off prematurely. I took a long handle shovel along for companionship  

At pretty much the same spot this happened, I saw it out on the trail beside the pond again. As soon as it saw me, it turned around to trot the other way and I hurried to follow it. Instead of turning into the woods, it turned away to circle the pond the other side from me. Very thick brush over there and I cold just see it appearing and disappearing as it made it's way directly across from me so now was heading back towards my house. 

New plan: I hurried as quickly but quietly as I could back the way I came with the idea of cutting it off. It had to exit the grass in a 50 foot opening as there are houses with fenced yards all along there. I got pretty close to where he had to come out and got lucky, didn't have to wait more than 20 seconds. Bizarre but he didn't even look my way and I was able to run up pretty close before he saw me and bolted. I threw that shovel in my best javelin imitation, landed close enough to startle him as he was running. That area enters the 5 acres of woods directly behind my house but he was nowhere in sight when I ran in there. 

That particular coyote has become very bold for some reason and I'm seeing it way too often mid day for my liking. The brazenness it displays with a smaller person is disturbing and it's pack has attacked small dogs and followed people on those trails. I'm going to have to find some pepper spray and convince my daughter to carry it when she's running; good for coyotes, stray dogs and pervs....


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Weird story today, could be something to be concerned about or not. I have been seeing coyotes many times per week suddenly, at least every other day.
> 
> My daughter took both dogs on a walk today, mid afternoon, sunny and warm for mid November (low 70's). She was walking along the huge pond near us where we start several times per day, Rogan on a long line, Harley off leash. Grass and wildflowers are still very long right now, 3-4 feet high, perfect cover.
> 
> ...


Not good. Sounds like what’s happened out in Stanley Park this past year.
Glad your daughter is safe!


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I'm going to have to find some pepper spray and convince my daughter to carry it when she's running; good for coyotes, stray dogs and pervs....


Make sure you convince her to carry the pepper spray IN HER HAND, when out for a jog, or walk. May want to get the gel pepper spray.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Zeppy said:


> Not good. Sounds like what’s happened out in Stanley Park this past year.
> Glad your daughter is safe!


I followed the Stanley Park issues, multiple bite occurrences, not sure if it's resolved yet.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Honey Maid said:


> Make sure you convince her to carry the pepper spray IN HER HAND, when out for a jog, or walk. May want to get the gel pepper spray.


Unfortunately, she still thinks it's a bit of a joke but was slightly unnerved with it just sitting there barking (at her, the dogs or other coyotes, who knows)


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I followed the Stanley Park issues, multiple bite occurrences, not sure if it's resolved yet.


They did a big cull in September and destroyed 11 coyotes I believe.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Zeppy said:


> They did a big cull in September and destroyed 11 coyotes I believe.


Ah yes, I just looked up the story. Didn't get most of them, there will be much more to the story.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/stanley-park-reopens-1.6184524


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Zeppy said:


> They did a big cull in September and destroyed 11 coyotes I believe.


Is 11 a big hunt in BC?


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

David Winners said:


> Is 11 a big hunt in BC?


According to a friend who lives out there, it was a big deal. Purely anecdotal. It received a lot of media attention


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> Is 11 a big hunt in BC?


David this is in a small (4 sq km) park within a big city (700,000 population) where coyotes were not seen until a few decades ago. Pack estimates were between a dozen and ~35.

They appear to have been trying to cull most or all of them as there were a ton of biting incidents recently.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

It must be because of location and available food sources. Last year, 197,735 deer were harvested in Ohio. I don't hunt coyote anymore and haven't in 20 years, but 11 was not an uncommon night back when I was hunting with a group of friends. I have seen 30+ in a pack before. I'm guessing they don't encroach on civilization here as much as other places because they are shot on sight by many land owners.

They are hunted regularly in these parts.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> David this is in a small (4 sq km) park within a big city (700,000 population) where coyotes were not seen until a few decades ago. Pack estimates were between a dozen and ~35.
> 
> They appear to have been trying to cull most or all of them as there were a ton of biting incidents recently.


I apologize for not reading the article. Perspective is paramount, as always.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

So after a long flight and still adjusting to the time I’ve been in bed early a couple of days ago and what woke me up is a sound of a tiny dog barking outside close to our yard. Making sure I am not delusional and way too tired to check it out I texted my husband from upstairs and he’s been hearing it too. He let the dogs out and they both went nuts and the barking stopped right away. Now we are surrounded by a wildlife refuge… the neighbors do not have small dogs. We thought it was weird. Yesterday I was home alone with dogs and they were barking like crazy again. I thought a bear maybe or something like that. It was already dark at 6pm and I was letting them in and out a few times and they would just start barking and then all of a sudden I hear that tiny dog barking back at them right from behind the fence. Even with a flashlight I couldn’t see it and when I called it, it stopped barking right away and it was quiet since. I am thinking what are the chances that there’s a tiny dog on a loose in the woods? What if it’s a coyote pup or something like that? Could it be?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Something very similar has happened to us here. A small dog barking, sometimes across the field by the woods, sometimes much closer barking at my dogs.Always in the evening.Never could figure out what it was and then it stopped one day.My pups were curious but never agitated.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

dogma13 said:


> Something very similar has happened to us here. A small dog barking, sometimes across the field by the woods, sometimes much closer barking at my dogs.Always in the evening.Never could figure out what it was and then it stopped one day.My pups were curious but never agitated.


Interesting… I looked at the local list of the lost dogs. A Yorkie was lost in July off this street but it’s a long shot…I emailed the owner to ask if he was found.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Lexie’s mom said:


> So after a long flight and still adjusting to the time I’ve been in bed early a couple of days ago and what woke me up is a sound of a tiny dog barking outside close to our yard. Making sure I am not delusional and way too tired to check it out I texted my husband from upstairs and he’s been hearing it too. He let the dogs out and they both went nuts and the barking stopped right away. Now we are surrounded by a wildlife refuge… the neighbors do not have small dogs. We thought it was weird. Yesterday I was home alone with dogs and they were barking like crazy again. I thought a bear maybe or something like that. It was already dark at 6pm and I was letting them in and out a few times and they would just start barking and then all of a sudden I hear that tiny dog barking back at them right from behind the fence. Even with a flashlight I couldn’t see it and when I called it, it stopped barking right away and it was quiet since. I am thinking what are the chances that there’s a tiny dog on a loose in the woods? What if it’s a coyote pup or something like that? Could it be?


Adult coyotes bark and can sound just like yappy dogs. Likely what you're hearing.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

The barking we heard was nothing like that. I've heard all of the coyote sounds they can make beforeQuite a extensive vocabulary.Lexie's might be though.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Hmm.. I am not sure now. Anyway, my husband said he will install night vision cameras.
The normal pack of coyotes in our woods sounded totally different.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Lexie’s mom said:


> Hmm.. I am not sure now. Anyway, my husband said he will install night vision cameras.
> The normal pack of coyotes in our woods sounded totally different.


Could be a fox, don't know if they bark. I know a fox makes a screaming sound. Decades ago I was horseback riding one night, heard what I thought to be a woman screaming, but didn't sound quite like a woman. Galloped off to investigate, didn't find a thing. Learned later that it was probably a fox.


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## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

Honey Maid said:


> Could be a fox, don't know if they bark. I know a fox makes a screaming sound. Decades ago I was horseback riding one night, heard what I thought to be a woman screaming, but didn't sound quite like a woman. Galloped off to investigate, didn't find a thing. Learned later that it was probably a fox.


My in-laws had a fox build a den near their house. The noise it made sounded exactly like a woman screaming. Very creepy.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We had foxes denning right in the hill across the ravine from us for years. They used to run through the yard to see if the dog was out and then bring the pups through if she wasn't. The male fox (oddly enough called a dog) would tease the real dog by running past the driveway to see if she would chase. They let me watch and photograph the pups from quite close and I got to watch them fight over a prized squirrel one morning. 

They stopped denning there when the coyotes showed up about 10 years ago. Sly like a fox....


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Honey Maid said:


> Could be a fox, don't know if they bark. I know a fox makes a screaming sound. Decades ago I was horseback riding one night, heard what I thought to be a woman screaming, but didn't sound quite like a woman. Galloped off to investigate, didn't find a thing. Learned later that it was probably a fox.


Cougars can Sound like a woman screaming.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Well, it definitely didn’t sound like a woman screaming!)


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

brittanyS said:


> My in-laws had a fox build a den near their house. The noise it made sounded exactly like a woman screaming. Very creepy.


Yes! I thought I heard a woman screaming in the ravine near us years ago. Totally freaked me out even after I realized it wasn’t human. We’re getting a lot more coyote activity too. I saw nothing for ages but lately I’ve seen tons of coyote poop plus rabbit remains. But scarier was the big buck that passed across a field behind Django when we were playing fetch. Thank goodness Django was running toward me and totally oblivious. The buck couldn’t have cared less about either of us. They are probably more dangerous to a GSD than a lone coyote.


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## REEHGE (Feb 16, 2020)

Here's some of the creatures in our playground this year. Nevermind the dates I forget to set that when I put my cam out.


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## Stuckey (Feb 1, 2020)

REEHGE said:


> View attachment 580278
> View attachment 580279
> View attachment 580280
> View attachment 580281
> ...


Some really good pics.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Quick update since Harley ran off a coyote on the patch by our house this morning....again. The thing was just waiting in the tall grass between the patch and the pond hoping we'd pass by 20-30 feet away I guess. It ran across a small strip of land separating two ponds and disappeared in the grass on the other side. Harley recalled like a champ as always but the hackles stayed up and he remained agitated.

A lone walker (no dog) was coming toward us 5 minutes later and I told he he was walking towards Mr. Yote and as he rounded the corner back towards my house, he yelled back "It's right here on the trail!" so that's where it exited from the other side of the pond.

Sightings are WAY up again, I saw it skirting my yard just last night and the night before, I was a little late getting the evening walk in and saw it on the same part of the trail about 6:00, dark but I could clearly see it against the little snow we have. I probably see them 5 days out of 7 now, they're a huge issue as I keep hearing they are bold with other people and small dogs, certainly not with us so far. At least their coats look really good this time of year.

There are an absolute ton of squirrels around right now, often 3-5-7 in view somewhere in the yard as they scramble to put more food away for the Winter I assume. It's also the beginning of coyote mating season and I have seen spots of blood on the path the last 2 mornings, whether from a female coyote or a cut dog paw I have no idea, probably the latter since the dogs don't seem too interested in the spotting. But I've started keeping Rogan on a long line for walks for now as I just don't want to chance him with these bold yotes; it's hard to proof on other predators.

Kinda ruining many of my hikes right now to be honest. No relaxing, eyes always scanning, head on a swivel. I still say it's only a matter of time before a person is bitten around here and I bought my daughter aggressive dog repellent for when she's out running n the trails; hopefully she takes it seriously.









Two Ontario children were attacked by coyotes and their parents say the city isn't doing enough


Two Ontario parents say they are afraid to let their children go outside after they were viciously attacked by coyotes and believe the city isn't doing enough to protect them.




toronto.ctvnews.ca













Two people bitten by coyote in Toronto park, city says


The city is asking residents to avoid a park in North York after a coyote attacked and bit two people Sunday afternoon.




toronto.ctvnews.ca


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

That's pretty close for comfort. We've not seen lately, which surprises me. We get up at 5am and I'm always expecting to see them with the boys...nope. I think we're going to bed too early to see them at night.


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## MeishasMom (Nov 12, 2021)

We have a small pack of them about 500ft from our backyard. The last two weeks every morning and night they are yapping and howling. Meisha gets very upset when she hears them and ran behind me a few times when we were out on a potty break. Though the other morning when she was in the house she developed her big girl voice and was woofing and barking out the sliding door at them. My husband has shot a few rounds of birdshot at them to keep them away from the chickens and pigs, but they still yap and howl. 

When I take Meisha for her walk around the cornfield I do have my .38 on me just incase we stumble up on them. Don't want them getting my baby girl.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

This is what I saw this morning. Then I only saw coyote tracks so I think the rabbit didn’t win this one. This is on a very well used path by my house.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> That's pretty close for comfort. We've not seen lately, which surprises me. We get up at 5am and I'm always expecting to see them with the boys...nope. I think we're going to bed too early to see them at night.


I see them at 7AM, I see them at 2PM and I see them at 6PM, time doesn't seem to matter right now.
I JUST came back from last minute grocery shopping (sausage meat for stuffing, a bottle of Proseco, milk and those Christmas cracker things with paper crowns, joke and a toy in them). Nothing like last minute, at least I have my turkey thawing 

Anyway, I was pulling in the drive when I saw the same coyote coming down the lane maybe 150 feet, I drove down quickly to it and jumped out of the truck and chased it into the woods, followed it's tracks in the snow and it was gone; they are magicians at disappearing.

At this point, I'd be happy if I only saw them at night but they are out and close by here at all hours now. Having to walk Rogan on a leash now is a PIA.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

MeishasMom said:


> We have a small pack of them about 500ft from our backyard. The last two weeks every morning and night they are yapping and howling. Meisha gets very upset when she hears them and ran behind me a few times when we were out on a potty break. Though the other morning when she was in the house she developed her big girl voice and was woofing and barking out the sliding door at them. My husband has shot a few rounds of birdshot at them to keep them away from the chickens and pigs, but they still yap and howl.
> 
> When I take Meisha for her walk around the cornfield I do have my .38 on me just incase we stumble up on them. Don't want them getting my baby girl.


You're smart to haze them. Around here, we're very limited to how we can discourage them/drive them off and they are very bold in watching and following people on the trails. There's been a few dogs attacked both in their yards and on the leash and now quite a few kids approached/bitten.


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## mpack (Aug 21, 2021)

The coyotes used to come up to the trees surrounding our house on the farm when I was a kid. Pretty sure they lured one of our Shepherds out one night. Came back roughed up and wouldn't go passed the trees at night anymore. We set up a whole slew of flood lights on the back deck and when you could hear them, we would turn on the lights and boom boom boom. Just aimed for the eyes glowing in the distance. Problem solved.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

The land owner where I'm currently staying shot 3 this past week. They were getting into his trash and hanging out in the woods right by the house.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Ours don’t get into the trash thank goodness but I’ve seen them on the streets in our neighborhood. They don’t seem to be too interested in coming really close but they’re also not overly concerned about people. It’s just the reality around here. Definitely no shooting allowed though.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> The land owner where I'm currently staying shot 3 this past week. They were getting into his trash and hanging out in the woods right by the house.


I had a couple of garage whiskies with a buddy the other night who is only 5 minutes north of me but in the country. He says they have been shooting them on the farms there as the population has exploded over the last few years. It's a shame because it should be beautiful to see them in the wild.

But they're not getting into the trash because they're hanging out in the woods nearby. They're hanging out in the woods because they're getting into the trash nearby.

They first started appearing around here when a couple down the ravine put out about a dozen bird feeders and she's on the tree line. Coyotes started just crouching just inside the woods and snagging lunch as the squirrels ran back top the trees....the well fed coyotes stuck around.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

They are bold where you are @WNGD! They're quite comfortable here, but haven't bothered us. I am of course very aware when running with Xerxes the Attack Beagle on his own.

I have a friend who moved to the country and does coyote hunts with horses and hounds.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> They are bold where you are @WNGD! They're quite comfortable here, but haven't bothered us. I am of course very aware when running with Xerxes the Attack Beagle on his own.
> 
> I have a friend who moved to the country and does coyote hunts with horses and hounds.


I sent dozens of links re recent and fairly local coyote bites to my local City Councillor, asking for simple coyote awareness signs to be posted in this area an got the same boiler plate answer that everyone gets:
-they're more afraid of you
-they're seldom aggressive
-keep dog/cat food inside
-keep dogs leashed
-be large/loud and don't turn your back on them

The never ever address the child bites and dog attacks, told my neighbor whose dog was attacked in her own back yard that "maybe you shouldn't have moved to the country" even though she's in a subdivision. Lots of woods and ravines around here. It is what it is.


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## REEHGE (Feb 16, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I sent dozens of links re recent and fairly local coyote bites to my local City Councillor, asking for simple coyote awareness signs to be posted in this area an got the same boiler plate answer that everyone gets:
> -they're more afraid of you
> -they're seldom aggressive
> -keep dog/cat food inside
> ...


That's some classic pencil pushers vs the reality on the ground stuff there. Pushes people to take matters into their own hands unfortunately, for better or worse.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow...bureaucracy at it's finest. Why solve problems when you could send form letters instead...


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Speaking of hazing coyotes...



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-urban-coyote-hazing-1.6263581


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> Speaking of hazing coyotes...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-urban-coyote-hazing-1.6263581


"The five coyotes that were subjected to aversive conditioning were not seen again for an average of about 37 days, compared with about 10 days for coyotes that were not harassed."

I'm fairly confident in saying that our local coyotes are close by daily, occasionally multiple X per day, hazed or not. Even in the few times per day that I'm out on the trails, I often see them several times per week. Pretty sure most people would think it's cruel to run them off still.

We live along 500 miles of contiguous trails and ravines but their range is only supposed to be 4-5 miles.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Unless you know what you are doing, thinning will make them reproduce more. They can’t be moved to other areas because they are very territorial and coyotes already living in that area will kill newcomers. Their biggest dangers are from their own kind. Even suburban cities had so many pets taken off by coyotes, they finally stepped in and started shooting them. Once they are trapped they must be shot and removed. There are no humane mitigation techniques. It can take years to lessen the population, if ever. I sought out a speaking event and talked to a mitigation expert who travels a wide area and oversees population control on a county level. In one city, they killed over 30 this year but overall residents saw very little lessening of coyotes. Coyotes hunt alone or in small packs.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Yup, I believe they're here to stay and if the last 10 years is any indications, sightings, bold/aggressive behavior and dog/people bites will continue to be on the rise. Look on the bright side, not too many bears and no cougars around here....


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> "The five coyotes that were subjected to aversive conditioning were not seen again for an average of about 37 days, compared with about 10 days for coyotes that were not harassed."
> 
> I'm fairly confident in saying that our local coyotes are close by daily, occasionally multiple X per day, hazed or not. Even in the few times per day that I'm out on the trails, I often see them several times per week. Pretty sure most people would think it's cruel to run them off still.
> 
> We live along 500 miles of contiguous trails and ravines but their range is only supposed to be 4-5 miles.


I thought the same, yours don't seem to be frightened off...perhaps because you're the only one hazing them? I keep seeing them when I have either our beagle or our geriatric mutt, neither of which I hold strong confidence in intimidating a coyote.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> I thought the same, yours don't seem to be frightened off...perhaps because you're the only one hazing them? I keep seeing them when I have either our beagle or our geriatric mutt, neither of which I hold strong confidence in intimidating a coyote.


Not that I've had too many conversations with others along the trail, but those I had had just either seem to think it's cool to see wildlife or else turn around and go the other way. Not one person has said "I just run at them and they take off". This allows them to get super comfortable with people who, evidently are no threat. 

Personally, I've gotten to the point where Mr Yote sees us coming and turns back or goes off the trail at 90 degrees if it's obvious we have seen him. But a couple of times we have walked right up near to where he is until the dogs get the scent and spring him from the tall grass. But I have also seen him walk right by our yard dozens of times, right through it on a number of occasions.

I think there's probably a combination of a lack of knowledge/belief that hazing them is cruel and also a lack of confidence to actually run them down. With Harley I have followed them for literally miles in the woods and they just keep their distance and watch back over their shoulders.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

It's funny at the wildlife I don't like to see now that I have dogs. Coyotes, wolves and moose top that list. Once hiking we ended up (unknowingly) between a mama bear and her cubs...we hightailed it out of there too, before anything could happen. 

Basically at this stage I like squirrels, weasels, muskrats, beavers etc. Fishers and martens. Xerxes the Attack Beagle holds a special passion for their scent.

Habituated animals I've never liked. Especially something like a coyote.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

(It is my personal opinion that people who don't spend time in the wilderness think habituated animals are great, while people who do can't stand them/know they're dangerous.)


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I want them to be more like deer that run as as soon as they see you coming. Or disappear long before you arrive.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rogan ran off a yote last night at 11:00 from the woods behind the house. Then ran back and forth like a maniac for a bit but recalled. Need to keep him on a long line at night for now.

I'm seeing fresh blood in the snow here on several days (3-4?) over the last 2 weeks. It's quite a bit and regular in pattern like a cut pad but too many different days for that to be the case. I know it's breeding season but would a female spot that much?

I'm a but doubtful that's what it is since the dogs aren't interested in it at all.

AND red squirrels trying to nest in my garage 🤬


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

jarn said:


> (It is my personal opinion that people who don't spend time in the wilderness think habituated animals are great, while people who do can't stand them/know they're dangerous.)


It's not great that they're habituated. They don't have a lot of choice as us humans crowd them. Then the easy prey of domestic animals. It's not good for them or us.The videos that pop up from time to time of people feeding wildlife in their yards.....


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

WNGD said:


> I live in a small community west of Toronto. Maybe 30,000 people in the whole area.
> Lots of ravines and streams and farm country around, yet minutes to several larger cities of 150,000 - 500,000 but still lots of land between us and them. I have a 6 year old male GSD and now a 7 month old male and we spend a lot of leisure time in the woods with God and nature.
> 
> We were on the edge of town with nothing but a few hundred acres of woods and farmer's field, trees and ravines between us and the next city.
> ...


Your property sounds like a dream! I’m jealous


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I’ve not run into coyotes with Gus but I suspect he would ignore totally unless he felt they were a threat. He has ignored all animals except one squirrel which I suspect he eradicated a few weeks ago. Could have easily been one of my schipps but, I found just the tail.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

dogma13 said:


> It's not great that they're habituated. They don't have a lot of choice as us humans crowd them. Then the easy prey of domestic animals. It's not good for them or us.The videos that pop up from time to time of people feeding wildlife in their yards.....


There is a family of foxes (well, I guess it's the parents with new kits every year) that have a den under the boardwalk in the east end of Toronto. People feed them, they're completely habituated, and it's awful...the Toronto Wildlife Centre and Animal Services put up signs, cameras - they get vandalized and it continues. There is something really wrong with people.

Toby's family lives west of Toronto. His sister's cat was killed by a coyote in front of them. I'm not a fan of letting cats about because of what they do to songbirds - Toby because stuff like coyotes can happen - he said, that's awful, and she defensively (the defensiveness was predictable, but my little kicks/muttering to Toby under the table were unheeded) said that the cat 'died a peaceful death in their arms' and Toby was like 'YOUR CAT WAS MAULED TO DEATH THAT IS NOT PEACEFUL'. I changed the topic.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> It's not great that they're habituated. They don't have a lot of choice as us humans crowd them. Then the easy prey of domestic animals. It's not good for them or us.The videos that pop up from time to time of people feeding wildlife in their yards.....


Humans are crowding them around here, true. Farmer's fields have turned into houses, ravines make great house back yards. golf courses make great home for them and many many cities around here have grown out to touch the next one. Toronto is really just a giant blob of what would have been been dozens of smaller towns on the outskirts. Neighboring Mississauga used to be 10 distinct boroughs, Brampton, Georgetown, Milton, Oakville, Burlington and Hamilton all touch....10M people really in one vast city.

But you can't lay the blame entirely there since there are thousands of square miles of virtually empty or farm land just minutes north with lots of ravines/woods/water and prey around. Just not as easy as squirrels and garbage are where the people live.

The story of the coyote is not much different than the "success" story of the modern racoon that lives under every deck and shed amongst us. Used to see them nightly around here, have the coyotes nipped into their numbers too?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Saphire said:


> Your property sounds like a dream! I’m jealous


We've been blessed to be here for 26 years and it's really been an awesome place for kids and dogs. I'm a big privacy, property and peace guy.

I still sometimes have to remind myself of this and walk by the waterfall every morning on the way back from our first hike and still stop to take in the beauty. Sometimes 2+ feet of water in the Spring runoff and full of sound and fury. Sometimes just an inch in Summer dry periods but so pretty to listen to from the deck. Walking up the creek beds never gets old and we have dozens and dozens of mature trees; so protecting and peaceful except when you have to rake in November!

It used to be so quiet and absolutely black here (no street lights) at night but urban sprawl has found us again and I'm looking forward to retirement one day and move to a bit more remote local on a lake or major stream near smaller towns. I need to be able to walk right out my door with unleashed dogs and go exploring for an hour or two.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Saphire said:


> I’ve not run into coyotes with Gus but I suspect he would ignore totally unless he felt they were a threat. He has ignored all animals except one squirrel which I suspect he eradicated a few weeks ago. Could have easily been one of my schipps but, I found just the tail.


Coyotes are the only thing that gets Harley actually angry. He has tremendous prey drive but that's all excitement, even for foxes. Coyotes make the hackles go up, the nose go down and agitated growling immediately. When he runs them off, it's with intent not an excited chase. Lately there's coyote scat on the trails every morning.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I have heard/read too many first hand horror stories of coyote attacks on children and small dogs. Most of the time, cats just go missing. It must be a horrible way to go but I suspect it's a quick shake.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

WNGD said:


> Coyotes are the only thing that gets Harley actually angry. He has tremendous prey drive but that's all excitement, even for foxes. Coyotes make the hackles go up, the nose go down and agitated growling immediately. When he runs them off, it's with intent not an excited chase. Lately there's coyote scat on the trails every morning.


Well perhaps I’m totally wrong about how Gus would react to them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Saphire said:


> Well perhaps I’m totally wrong about how Gus would react to them.


I wouldn't be surprised, there's something primal and "wild" about the smell I presume.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

We live close to Lake Huron and many creeks and rivers. But the vast majority are posted all the way around so my fantasy of wandering through the woods and waterways with my pack has not happened:-(Springtime does provide for seasonal ponds and creeks in nearby public land that we take full advantage of. At least there are woods,fields,and dirt paths to explore. Can't complain.
Samson does give a low growl when we hear coyotes. The girls just perk their ears up.


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## bdel8383 (Jun 14, 2021)

WNGD said:


> We had a coyote try to grab a small dog that was still on the leash a few years ago. Lady was able to pull her dog away but it was hurt and scared. If she had let go that pup would have been 100 yards down the trail in a flash.
> 
> 6 years ago I was on a last 11:00 walk down our dead end road towards the only two neighbors with my 12 week old GSD pup (my current older dog). We have no street lights here and it was pitch black, couldn't see a thing. Pup backed up into me and I see the neighbors motion light come on and a coyote was staring right at my puppy no more than 30 feet away. It made me carry a flashlight ever since.


This is the exact reason when I walk my dog (not GSD) at night or early AM where I live I always have a firearm on my hip. We have a pack of them that live in the woods behind/around my house. I live on a dead end off two other dead ends with no street lights. Always a worry of mine


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

bdel8383 said:


> This is the exact reason when I walk my dog (not GSD) at night or early AM where I live I always have a firearm on my hip. We have a pack of them that live in the woods behind/around my house. I live on a dead end off two other dead ends with no street lights. Always a worry of mine


We can't open or conceal carry here. Best I can do is carry a stout staff or a long handled shovel. Both will do enough damage to a yote if necessary. I doubt one would come close enough unless my dog somehow catches one or is sick.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Haven't seen a coyote for about 2 weeks since it's gotten so very cold and snowy. Those that I have seen look very healthy and beautiful full coats. I have seen blood again fairly regularly along the trail and believe that due to coyote mating season being in full force right now.

Then 2 hours ago, my daughter saw (and took video) of a VERY small and scraggly (mange?) coyote coming right through the yard. Small enough (20 pounds) that it looked like a coyote pup. Lots of hair missing, almost a bare tail.

He looked more like this but patchier


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

WNGD said:


> Haven't seen a coyote for about 2 weeks since it's gotten so very cold and snowy. Those that I have seen look very healthy and beautiful full coats. I have seen blood again fairly regularly along the trail and believe that due to coyote mating season being in full force right now.
> 
> Then 2 hours ago, my daughter saw (and took video) of a VERY small and scraggly (mange?) coyote coming right through the yard. Small enough (20 pounds) that it looked like a coyote pup. Lots of hair missing, almost a bare tail.
> 
> ...


Do you have a wildlife rescue in your area that would try to humanely trap and rehab? I'm not sure but think that Animal Control in my town will do that. With that degree of mange the coyote is not going to survive.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Toronto Wildlife Centre likely will even though outside of the city proper.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Perhaps I'll call local wildlife control but my (first and second hand) experience with them is entirely not helpful with coyotes. Perhaps I need a guard donkey....we had llamas to guard miniature horses and a friend of mine has a donkey for her goats.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

jarn said:


> Toronto Wildlife Centre likely will even though outside of the city proper.


Unless they have changed their policies they won't go outside the city. When I lived in Thornhill I found a baby robin that had been mauled by a cat and was gravely injured but still living. Toronto Wildlife said we were outside their catchment area and to call Markham Animal Control which was actually the OSPCA out of Newmarket. To their credit the OSPCA came promptly and took the robin to a vet for euthanasia. 

I was thinking of Procyon Wildlife in Beeton What to DO If You Find Wildlife in Distress - Procyon Wildlife but their website says for coyotes in distress call the Ministry of Natural Resources. Their solution might be a bullet.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Quinnsmom said:


> Unless they have changed their policies they won't go outside the city. When I lived in Thornhill I found a baby robin that had been mauled by a cat and was gravely injured but still living. Toronto Wildlife said we were outside their catchment area and to call Markham Animal Control which was actually the OSPCA out of Newmarket. To their credit the OSPCA came promptly and took the robin to a vet for euthanasia.
> 
> I was thinking of Procyon Wildlife in Beeton What to DO If You Find Wildlife in Distress - Procyon Wildlife but their website says for coyotes in distress call the Ministry of Natural Resources. Their solution might be a bullet.


Oh - I didn't realize that. I follow them on IG and they seem to go to Pickering and Mississauga, but that might be working with other agencies. And I think @WNGD is further from Toronto than that.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I think they will now - worth a call: Wildlife Hotline – Toronto Wildlife Centre

(And @Quinnsmom I grew up in Thornhill! On the Markham side)


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Perhaps I'll call local wildlife control but my (first and second hand) experience with them is entirely not helpful with coyotes. Perhaps I need a guard donkey....we had llamas to guard miniature horses and a friend of mine has a donkey for her goats.


My parents had a couple donkeys throughout the years and I remember on several occasions being woken up at 3am from vicious braying and hee-hawing out in the field. Probably chasing off coyotes!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

We were recently camping at Lake Alamo in Arizona. There are donkeys and coyote all around. Valor and I ran into a wild donkey one morning. They have no fear of dogs whatsoever. I have experience in Afghanistan as well when one attacked Fama. 

Valor is very neutral with animals but hates coyote. He will hackle and search for them if he gets scent. I let him run them when we see them. He comes back after a bit of chase or when I recall.

While I am a firearm advocate and I carry everyday, don't underestimate the difficulty of shooting a moving coyote, particularly with a handgun. In an actual fight between a dog and a yote, I'd rather have an asp or a stick than a gun.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Zeppy said:


> My parents had a couple donkeys throughout the years and I remember on several occasions being woken up at 3am from vicious braying and hee-hawing out in the field. Probably chasing off coyotes!


Well, you certainly can't sleep through that racket. The volume is incredible!
My friend that has one for her goats, her donkey announces all visitors with that bizarre bray; I feel so sorry for her neighbors.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Neighbor's 1500## or so Charolais bull is in residence, living his best life, winter version, at my place. 

He hangs right with the cows and 3-4 mo old calves, and I would expect he could knock a coyote into next Sunday if one got within head butting or kicking reach. 
I just hope he doesn't think I look like a coyote. Some of the cows are not much smaller than the bull and very protective of their calves. 

We do hear coyotes at night, though, of in the distance and I have seen some scat that I expect is coyote. Something killed a red fox maybe 200 yards from our house. Not fresh enough to tell. Could have been a bobcat or coyote.


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## TayStrike (12 mo ago)

What an interesting thread! Living in Scotland I don't have to worry about large predators. The worst we have is the venomous adder and they tend to be fairly shy, retiring creatures and a dog is only likely to get bitten if it stands on one or sticks it's face too close. We do have deer, fox, otter, badger, hare, rabbits, stoats etc but nothing that could really harm a large dog. I would love to see a wolf in the wild (but not too near my dogs or our livestock 😉) but unless the rewilders get their wish for a return of bear, lynx and wolf to the UK I don't think it will happen. I do love the look of coyotes, but it sounds as though they can pose problems occasionally for those who live closely alongside them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

TayStrike said:


> What an interesting thread! Living in Scotland I don't have to worry about large predators. The worst we have is the venomous adder and they tend to be fairly shy, retiring creatures and a dog is only likely to get bitten if it stands on one or sticks it's face too close. We do have deer, fox, otter, badger, hare, rabbits, stoats etc but nothing that could really harm a large dog. I would love to see a wolf in the wild (but not too near my dogs or our livestock 😉) but unless the rewilders get their wish for a return of bear, lynx and wolf to the UK I don't think it will happen. I do love the look of coyotes, but it sounds as though they can pose problems occasionally for those who live closely alongside them.


You've got sheep; you don't want coyotes around.
They would however trim out your hare and rabbit population and run off your foxes.


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## Mannix (12 mo ago)

Plenty of coyote around here, coy-dogs too. It's the coy-dogs that I'm leery of. They tend to be less shy and more confrontational. I saw one that looked part wolf "blue eyes" once. Another time I saw one that was obviously part collie. I suspect Red might have mated with one at some time.

When it snows I see plenty of tracks indicating they are thick in this woods.

Had one follow me and Sharpy the whole time during a 4 mile hike. She kept barking at us the whole time. Sharpy was so old at the time, she would lead him away from me and when he came back exhausted she was right behind him. Way too close. It's the only time I've fired a shot.

She ran off but was back at it again 10 minutes later. Knowing where the den was I proceeded to "mark" it and stuff a few sticks in it. When visiting the den she was quite and didn't show herself.
Didn't have any problems with her after that.

Red and Sharpy checking out a coyote den.









With my new "high prey drive" dog Mannix I never get to see any coyote, he chases them away before I even know they are there. So far he's caught squirrel, opossum, racoon, groundhog, moles, and feral cats. Rabbits are too fast and deer are to big. Not that he doesn't try.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I let my older dog run off coyotes in the yard or my immediate woods regularly. Now they generally turn away or run as soon as they see us but not always.

My daughter was walking both dogs a few weeks ago and a coyote just stood there staring at her. The one male ran it off and came back and both dogs literally sat in front of her while the coyote barked and barked at them, likely trying to lure or get them to chase. My dogs never have done that with me and I really believe they were guarding her. 

As many here know, I have since bought her coyote pepper spray or what they sell as aggressive dog spray.

I haven't seen our very mangy coyote since the one sighting a week or two ago.


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## bdel8383 (Jun 14, 2021)

WNGD said:


> I let my older dog run off coyotes in the yard or my immediate woods regularly. Now they generally turn away or run as soon as they see us but not always.
> 
> My daughter was walking both dogs a few weeks ago and a coyote just stood there staring at her. The one male ran it off and came back and both dogs literally sat in front of her while the coyote barked and barked at them, likely trying to lure or get them to chase. My dogs never have done that with me and I really believe they were guarding her.
> 
> ...


The other night I had my spotlight turn on in the back yard while I was in bed. Looked out the window for shits and giggles and there were 4 very large coyotes strolling through my yard. They were very healthy looking and were the size of an adult female GSD. There is open season where I live 10 months a year with no bag limit, so I will be ensuring I try and take a few out any chance I get.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

bdel8383 said:


> The other night I had my spotlight turn on in the back yard while I was in bed. Looked out the window for shits and giggles and there were 4 very large coyotes strolling through my yard. They were very healthy looking and were the size of an adult female GSD. There is open season where I live 10 months a year with no bag limit, so I will be ensuring I try and take a few out any chance I get.


Coyotes only average between 25-35 pounds but this time of year can appear much larger due to the cold weather and fluffy healthy coats. It would be extremely rare to find four as large as an adult female GSD. Larger coyote might top 40 pounds but the world record is 75 pounds but from more than 80 years ago. Certainly could be bigger as a coy-dog.


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## bdel8383 (Jun 14, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Coyotes only average between 25-35 pounds but this time of year can appear much larger due to the cold weather and fluffy healthy coats. It would be extremely rare to find four as large as an adult female GSD. Larger coyote might top 40 pounds but the world record is 75 pounds but from more than 80 years ago. Certainly could be bigger as a coy-dog.


was def probably the coat in the winter. They certainly appeared healthy and would be a candidate for one of my arrows or .223 rounds


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Fresh snow meant I could see coyote tracks this morning, dogs were interested and alert. 
Two scat offerings within 100 yards of my house (threw them off the trail). Lots of blood drops on the trail.

As has happened several times, Mr coyote was hunkered down in long grass/cattails by the pond, somehow hoping we'd walk by only 50 feet away. Harley sprung him and ran him across the little peninsula that separates two ponds where the coyote has to turn back towards my house. Harley recalled perfectly as always.

I've been walking Rogan on a long line this Winter especially now during coyote mating season. He went nuts but didn't drag me around, adrenaline was pumping for sure, I feel a bit bad for him.

What I find interesting is when we back tracked back towards home and came across where the coyote had exited the other side of the pond, the dogs obviously get really interested again at the fresh scent. But they started back in the direction of the pond (where the coyote had come FROM) but within 50 feet, reversed to go in the direction that he WENT. I'm always amazed that dogs can accurately tell direction of travel from even fresh scent.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We had that really scrawny mange infested coyote come through the yard this afternoon in broad daylight. I got a really good photo I'll post when I get a chance but that yote is definitely not well, patchy fur, nothing on it's tail.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

If it were me, I'd dispatch him. No sense in taking a chance he's going to give something to your dogs.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I live within city limits so can't shoot or trap it and won't poison it. We've had some discussion of calling wildlife services who evidently may rehab it. Note the zero hair on the end of the tail and patchy hair falling off the legs, under carriage, feet and snout. This thng is a mess.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

This from a quick Google search. How to tell the difference between sarcoptic/Cheyletiella and Demodectic mange though.

Mange is caused by a mite that burrows into the dog's skin. ... *Both sarcoptic mange and Cheyletiella mange* are highly contagious and can spread from coyotes to dogs, and even to cats and people. Demodectic mange is not contagious.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

This has been a really interesting thread. It is one of those unfortunate realities that, as we humans move into the habitat of other native species, disrupt their lifestyle and patterns. And, also naturally, we tend to view it from our perspective of how annoying, troublesome and/or lethal the reactions can be. 
Any time there is discussion of reintroducing a species that used to inhabit a site, I look at the possible ramifications of the human/animal interface and just who is going to lose....generally the animal reintroduced to that site. Case in point here are the whole wolf packs that have been killed because of killing livestock, which was so foreseeable as to be, IMHO, irresponsible of the people pushing the reintroduction.
In the case of coyotes, although not reintroduced, they are amazingly resilient of adapting to the new situation, habituation, right? And, yes, can and do cause a great deal of problems involving undesired and harmful encounters with humans. 
Is it fair to say that they could just go elsewhere when there are empty fields and farm land? You might get a different reaction from the farmer. Humans also have the option to just go elsewhere that is already 'settled' and populated but many of us like to move out where it is less populated, where we can walk out our doors and enjoy a more or less natural environment. And, as any who have seen my posts, I am including myself in that group. We much prefer the wildlife to vasts amount of people. However, we will also defend ourselves, our pets and our property to the fairest degree possible. We do not shoot coyotes on sight. They inhabit a niche in the environment. They control rodents and small pesky animals. We do have neighbors who will shoot a coyote on sight. One stating he wanted to let his chickens free range, therefore... I don't agree with that. Our ground squirrel population has exploded, along with associated damage to our pastures, due to the decline of numbers in coyotes. Just as you see prey populations boom, you will see predator populations increase. Note rabbit to owl occurrence ratios. 
One of the problems, if you will, is the perspective of which side you are on. I feel for the urban areas that are experiencing these problems, because with proximity grows complacency and contempt. In that I mean, the coyotes are extremely able to become accustomed to us and lose their fear/respect of us. 
Coyotes have the potential to learn how far the bullet will go and will sit right outside of range. They will learn just how effective you are at chasing/hazing/harrassing. 
Not an easy resolution.


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

I went googling wildlife rehabbers a while ago in case I ever needed one at my new home. This site is for wildlife rescues that deal with coyotes. Wildlife Centres :: Ontario Wildlife Rescue Is there one near you that might loan a humane trap? You're right, this one will not survive on its own.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Mangy coyote just came through the yard again at 2:00 in the afternoon, bright sunny day. 
Dogs always see it way before I do, I got a few more photos of it and ran it off again.

I called the City Wildlife Control who won't do anything, didn't even refer me anywhere.
There's no rehab listed in this area so I left 3 messages in Grimsby, Kitchener and Toronto Wildlife Centre , all 45 minutes in a circle around me. They'd need to live trap the yote and I have no idea how successful that is with how smart they are.

We'll see what they have to say.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I worked in the office of a company called Wildlife control supplies processing the orders for a couple of years a while ago. 
While they would certainly take a call and put traps on someone’s property with baits and lures, they can not legally relocate an animal because of the rabies. And they don’t euthanize either. They use gas chambers.
Lots of times they don’t explain it to people that make those calls. I’ve seen trunks of their trucks full of beavers and coyotes skins. It’s quite sad…I don’t know if it’s different in Canada.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

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I am enjoying watching TikTok videos of Weave, the coyote.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Lexie’s mom said:


> I worked in the office of a company called Wildlife control supplies processing the orders for a couple of years a while ago.
> While they would certainly take a call and put traps on someone’s property with baits and lures, they can not legally relocate an animal because of the rabies. And they don’t euthanize either. They use gas chambers.
> Lots of times they don’t explain it to people that make those calls. I’ve seen trunks of their trucks full of beavers and coyotes skins. It’s quite sad…I don’t know if it’s different in Canada.


I'm not sure about every one obviously, but I know of several personally that rehab and live-release back where they were caught. This is normally for injured animals. There are even several television shows about the rehab centers that are quite interesting.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

WNGD said:


> I'm not sure about every one obviously, but I know of several personally that rehab and live-release back where they were caught. This is normally for injured animals. There are even several television shows about the rehab centers that are quite interesting.


That’s different-those are wildlife rehabbers.
They might be able to help.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Toronto Wildlife Services just called. They don't normally come out this far but would if I knew where they slept or hung out (she suggested they aren't in their dens this time of year and suggested sheds, under decks etc.)

She said they have a few coyote live traps but have limited success in catching these smart wary animals. Well see if the other rehabs call and what they have to say.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Lexie’s mom said:


> That’s different-those are wildlife rehabbers.
> They might be able to help.


Oh I understand, those are more the guys that get a raccoon out of your attic etc.
I believe the exception here are bats that you can euthanize.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

The company that I worked for-no chance for raccoons or even squirrels.
A couple of years ago when we found those orphan squirrels it took me a while to find a rehabber but I did and she took them. I talked to her afterwards when there was a very confused raccoon in our yard and she was ready to pick him up but I’ve fed him and he walked away on its own. She said he must be starving.


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## SMcN (Feb 12, 2021)

Lexie’s mom said:


> The company that I worked for-no chance for raccoons or even squirrels.
> A couple of years ago when we found those orphan squirrels it took me a while to find a rehabber but I did and she took them. I talked to her afterwards when there was *a very confused raccoon in our yard* and she was ready to pick him up but I’ve fed him and he walked away on its own. She said he must be starving.


I must confess, I would have been seriously concerned about rabies potential.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Toronto Wildlife Services just called. They don't normally come out this far but would if I knew where they slept or hung out (she suggested they aren't in their dens this time of year and suggested sheds, under decks etc.)
> 
> She said they have a few coyote live traps but have limited success in catching these smart wary animals. Well see if the other rehabs call and what they have to say.


Here they just shoot them. They can’t move them safely so once they are trapped they must be put down or will fight if moved and eventually kill the interlopers.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

SMcN said:


> I must confess, I would have been seriously concerned about rabies potential.


We have a bunch of raccoons and possums that come every day to eat. They know where to go and dogs are nowhere around them. I find it very difficult not to feed a pregnant mom that actually follows you in the yard begging for food. Been doing it for almost 6 years. That starving one was some stray confused raccoon, not one of the regulars that are very well fed.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

Thanksgiving night


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@WNGD - I follow Hobbitstee Wildlife Refuge on IG - it looks here like they don't trap as well, but will work with local animal services who capture and then they rehab I think. Not really near you, but I've seen them taking animals from as far east as Burlington...so could be worth a try to see if they know what the best process is.





__





Hobbitstee Wildlife Refuge






www.hobbitstee.com


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I'm waiting for summer and snake season to be over.










'I thought the puppy was a goner': The desperate fight to save Panda from a python


A quick-thinking stranger who jumped a fence to save a puppy from the jaws of a 2.5-metre python is being praised for his "unflappable" effort.




www.abc.net.au


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Here they just shoot them. They can’t move them safely so once they are trapped they must be put down or will fight if moved and eventually kill the interlopers.


They release them back into the same neighborhood or very close. They don't relocate coyotes.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

jarn said:


> @WNGD - I follow Hobbitstee Wildlife Refuge on IG - it looks here like they don't trap as well, but will work with local animal services who capture and then they rehab I think. Not really near you, but I've seen them taking animals from as far east as Burlington...so could be worth a try to see if they know what the best process is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got a call back from the Kitchener rehab who said they would potentially help but directed me to "Coyote Watch Canada" to see if they have volunteers more local to me. Left them a message. She said that she had been able to physically handle coyotes they have had their in the past but are instructed to stamp their feet and run off coyotes even as they put feed down. They want them left wild. She said they could attempt to trap it.

She was wonderful but there's no way those coyotes don't more closely link food to humans imo.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Dunkirk said:


> I'm waiting for summer and snake season to be over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a juvenile python but I'm afraid that I would just introduce that snake to a garden spade or a hoe works well....then you'd have two snakes.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> They release them back into the same neighborhood or very close. They don't relocate coyotes.


Then why trap them at all? They can move right back where they were before.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Then why trap them at all? They can move right back where they were before.


It's a REHAB (sick animals). Bring them back to health and release. Think birds, squirrels, turtles.
Also Spring bear hunt, fawns with mother's hit be cars, raccoons shot by farmers.

Some of these places rehab literally thousands of animals a year. A rehab doesn't trap or pick up nuisance animals.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I read, a few years back, about urban coyotes iving in the back alleys of cities. Some animal groups would capture and release they coyotes to the woods, only to have the animals return to the cities. Oten they would get hit by cars as they crossed highways. So these groups gave up trapping and relocating and just watched the animals movements in case they became a problem. They added that most people are unaware of how many of these creatures are living nearby. .


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

car2ner said:


> I read, a few years back, about urban coyotes iving in the back alleys of cities. Some animal groups would capture and release they coyotes to the woods, only to have the animals return to the cities. Oten they would get hit by cars as they crossed highways. So these groups gave up trapping and relocating and just watched the animals movements in case they became a problem. They added that most people are unaware of how many of these creatures are living nearby. .


Each of coyotes, raccoons and skunk numbers have exploded in cities. Lots of things hidden under decks and in sheds  Most of them don't don't bite you or eat your pets.


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## bdel8383 (Jun 14, 2021)

I am an avid hunter and will only shoot what I will eat.....however, I make an exception for coyotes. They have no natural predator where I am from. I even live in the communist stronghold of Massachusetts and they allow us very liberal (no-pun intended) regulations on hunting coyotes due to their explosion in numbers. In my part of the state they unfortunately scoop many small household pets. I understand their habitat was taken from them by us and they are wild animals doing what wild animals do, but it's just a necessary evil at this point.


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## bdel8383 (Jun 14, 2021)

Lexie’s mom said:


> Thanksgiving night
> View attachment 583680
> View attachment 583681


cute little trash can panda bears


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Mangy was back again today halfway up my driveway, this is getting past annoying now, I think that's 3 days in a row or 3 out of 4. I let Rogan run it off maybe 100 yards down the ravine this time (still in sight), maybe a 2 year old 100 pounder will put the fear of dog into it. 

It's a bit frustrating to always be scanning the woods for it and have to keep Rogan on a long lead on hikes.


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

This poor little guy.. I am glad he is getting help!


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dna-test-finally-reveals-emaciated-023344043.html


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Lexie’s mom said:


> This poor little guy.. I am glad he is getting help!
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dna-test-finally-reveals-emaciated-023344043.html


Look like even worse shape than mine is. Comments say he escaped there...coyote is wily!


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## xthine (Nov 9, 2018)

Chased by this guy on our morning walk a few days ago.
I saw the squadron from a far and had Josie in a sit (which she turns into sit pretty lol) to let them pass but missed seeing the 2nd squadron that was a bit closer. As we were passing this one had eyes on eyes, as we passed starting moving towards us so Josie and I picked up the pace, it turned around after hitting the pavement. 











Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

MMMMmmmm wild bacon ....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

On our late night walk last night, pitch black but I have a flashlight, I heard a dog down the ravine alert barking quite loudly and my first thought was "coyotes in the ravine". As if on cue, the coyotes started yipping and howling very loud and near by. Odd though, my dogs get alert and listen but don't get agitated or overly excited. They're pretty much used to them now unless they see them and want to chase. We haven't seen them from the yard in the last month or more and I'm wondering if they don't want to be seen during denning season.

On the "other predators" front, my daughter had my grandaughter walking around the yard and they came across a Garter Snake (harmless) that startled them. In a flash Harley bit at it and literally flipped it away. Hero dog in my daughter's eyes


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Scary video.
And if you contact the City about aggressive coyotes, they email you a form letter about how they're really scared of you and you should "just make yourselves big and not turn your back" 

This is why my daughter now carries coyote spray and I never walk without a heavy stick and a knife. Oh, and two German Shepherds....








VIDEO: Close encounter in Niagara-on-the-Lake with coyote caught on camera


Woman stalked while walking dog in Old Town, neighbour intervenes




www.stcatharinesstandard.ca


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## BubbaBearsMomma58 (Dec 10, 2019)

WNGD said:


> On our late night walk last night, pitch black but I have a flashlight, I heard a dog down the ravine alert barking quite loudly and my first thought was "coyotes in the ravine". As if on cue, the coyotes started yipping and howling very loud and near by. Odd though, my dogs get alert and listen but don't get agitated or overly excited. They're pretty much used to them now unless they see them and want to chase. We haven't seen them from the yard in the last month or more and I'm wondering if they don't want to be seen during denning season.
> 
> On the "other predators" front, my daughter had my grandaughter walking around the yard and they came across a Garter Snake (harmless) that startled them. In a flash Harley bit at it and literally flipped it away. Hero dog in my daughter's eyes


Awe your precious fur baby was protecting your daughter an granddaughter just like he supposed to. Oh the love of our fur babies is a beautiful blessing


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

BubbaBearsMomma58 said:


> Awe your precious fur baby was protecting your daughter an granddaughter just like he supposed to. Oh the love of our fur babies is a beautiful blessing


No offense and I know it's just an expression for some people .... but I don't own a fur baby.
The love and loyalty of our dogs is a blessing, on that I agree.


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

The horror in that girl’s screams from the video is just haunting.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

NadDog24 said:


> The horror in that girl’s screams from the video is just haunting.


She looks like a little girl but that was a 30 year old woman. It just shows that screaming and doing-her-best to stand up to a coyote, wasn't enough to deter a determined predator that didn't see her as enough of a threat.

That particular yote needs to be taught some serious respect.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We saw a healthy coyote come through the yard a few days ago, herons and ducks and Canada Geese are back in the pond in various numbers. Had a single deer come through twice yesterday. Found about a 10" painted turtle in the woods between our house and the pond. Squirrels are everywhere and all the time.

Now the painful one: Mother rabbit decided to make her nest under a climbing vine/trellis right against the house and she's hanging around and not afraid of us at all, letting me get within 10 feet. The dogs have seen her from inside the house and I had to take the precaution of leashing them for our afternoon walk. This is the 3-4th time she's made her nest in our yard or garden and it seldom ends well ....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I have only seen the yote once in the last month and it was a healthy one that ran right through the yard a few weeks ago. MY daughter was coming back from a run and may have startled him on the path above us. He didn't stop to look around and just kept running. 

We did have a mother raccoon decide to have her babies in my woodshed again (2 or 3 years in a row not sure) despite my best efforts to discourage her. I left the door open once they seems big enough and she moved them on.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Another coyote bite on a child








Coyote bites child in west end Toronto park: police


Police say a coyote bit a child in a west end Toronto park on Saturday afternoon.




toronto.ctvnews.ca





Seems to be happening more regularly




__





CityNews







toronto.citynews.ca













Durham Police Warn About Coyotes After A 6-Year-Old Girl Was Bitten On Canada Day


"Several adults scared the coyote off and it ran into the nearby woods."




www.narcity.com


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## Ringhram (Sep 4, 2021)

Sit down...
The other day, I saw someone walking a coyote. I thought it was a sable GSD at first. Nope. I have seen that particular animal running loose, and it has attempted to visit Thena a time or two. Aside from the obvious legal issues surrounding keeping an indigenous species (i.e. you cannot without a rehabber's license), is this sort of thing safe? The coyote seems calm and docile, but I do not let Thena go outside if I see it.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Ringhram said:


> Sit down...
> The other day, I saw someone walking a coyote. I thought it was a sable GSD at first. Nope. I have seen that particular animal running loose, and it has attempted to visit Thena a time or two. Aside from the obvious legal issues surrounding keeping an indigenous species (i.e. you cannot without a rehabber's license), is this sort of thing safe? The coyote seems calm and docile, but I do not let Thena go outside if I see it.


They would be arrested here. No contact with wild animals is allowed. It’s so dangerous. Unless it was a coydog and just looked all coyote.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Another coyote bite on a child
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How did it get close enough? That is so serious. If they don’t catch it do they assume it is rabid?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Ringhram said:


> Sit down...
> The other day, I saw someone walking a coyote. I thought it was a sable GSD at first. Nope. I have seen that particular animal running loose, and it has attempted to visit Thena a time or two. Aside from the obvious legal issues surrounding keeping an indigenous species (i.e. you cannot without a rehabber's license), is this sort of thing safe? The coyote seems calm and docile, but I do not let Thena go outside if I see it.


Wow, I would want to ask if it truly was, but even then, not sure you'd get a straight (honest) answer.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> How did it get close enough? That is so serious. If they don’t catch it do they assume it is rabid?


I have seen coyotes jump out of the bushes and nip people, almost as if testing the waters so could have been that. A lot of houses around here are on ravines with simple 4 ft chain link fences that coyotes jump like nothing. If a child is playing there alone ....

And yes, if the animal is not caught, they assume rabid or similar. The one in the video below (FL) was.









VIDEO: Man kicks aggressive coyote at Kissimmee resort, then coyote attacks woman


A surveillance camera recorded a frightening encounter at a Kissimmee resort, a man was walking on a sidewalk and a coyote suddenly emerged from some trees and went after him.




www.wfla.com


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It’s out of control.


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

I live at sea level, within 10 minutes of the Pacific Ocean and 35 minutes from 3500ft + elevation and we don't see coyotes on this property. There were however grey fox living on site when we moved in. Someone called the sheriff due to chickens being eaten, but man, those fox were better rat killers than the feral cats that have since come around.

Prior to this property, we were at a higher elevation, abutting hundreds of acres of 2nd and 3rd growth redwood forest. We never saw coyotes there either, lions and fox, yes. When I was more inland, on a property at 4500-4800 ft, there were coyotes as well as lions but the mcnabb X border collie X bull terrier that ran the show kept them mostly away.

Back east however, those coyotes or coy dogs are getting BIG. Last time I was in NY I saw on trot across the lawn of my inlaws place, carrying a rooster in its mouth. It was a beautiful canine, but rather frightening in that it was huge and looked more similar to a wolf than the coyotes I remember 20+ years ago. For a "regular" dog, I imagine that animal could pose a challenge in a fight.

regarding alpha dogs, they're most definitely INTENSE!!! a friend has 2 anatolians and a mother/son Belgian combo on his large farm. the Anatolians regularly chase off lions and have taken down deer. the Belgians are well trained protection dogs and are incredibly intense. I don't think a coyote of any size would stand a chance.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

RosiesPaw said:


> I live at sea level, within 10 minutes of the Pacific Ocean and 35 minutes from 3500ft + elevation and we don't see coyotes on this property. There were however grey fox living on site when we moved in. Someone called the sheriff due to chickens being eaten, but man, those fox were better rat killers than the feral cats that have since come around.
> 
> Prior to this property, we were at a higher elevation, abutting hundreds of acres of 2nd and 3rd growth redwood forest. We never saw coyotes there either, lions and fox, yes. When I was more inland, on a property at 4500-4800 ft, there were coyotes as well as lions but the mcnabb X border collie X bull terrier that ran the show kept them mostly away.
> 
> ...


Coyotes don't want to fight anything that can fight back, too much downside in being bitten or broken; they run at first opportunity.

Even before I had the second dog, seeing Harley from a distance, they would turn and run away, looking back often. We used to track behind them, sometimes for half and hour and they would trot away and keep looking over their shoulders and eventually get annoyed/nervous enough to make a run for it. I have let him run them off for 50 yards dozens of times in the woods, always in sight

And they're definitely not a fan of the big boy Rogan.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I was out last night about 11:30 for a last walk of the day, just a couple hundred yards through the woods. Dogs were very sniffy but not excited, Rogan bolts off maybe 100 feet into the black, I call him, meet him halfway and the unmistakeable smell of fresh ..... skunk......

I'm ticked, it's a huge annoyance but as we walked away the smell seems to disappear, I figured maybe he missed the spray but would would walked through it in the grass. Nope, nothing on either of them, yeah!

We had a skunk on the front lawn a week ago, I gotta keep that top of mind for awhile. Skunks are cute but I hate them them most lol


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> I was out last night about 11:30 for a last walk of the day, just a couple hundred yards through the woods. Dogs were very sniffy but not excited, Rogan bolts off maybe 100 feet into the black, I call him, meet him halfway and the unmistakeable smell of fresh ..... skunk......
> 
> I'm ticked, it's a huge annoyance but as we walked away the smell seems to disappear, I figured maybe he missed the spray but would would walked through it in the grass. Nope, nothing on either of them, yeah!
> 
> We had a skunk on the front lawn a week ago, I gotta keep that top of mind for awhile. Skunks are cute but I hate them them most lol


we've got a skunk that was living under the shed when we moved into the property 2 years ago. I've sealed off all entry points under structures, so it's had to find a new place to live, but I'll be darned if it doesn't trot around the half acre, right behind the bedroom window some nights...

a few nights ago I had decided to sleep out in the Vanagon (space is nice) and heard some rustling up at the gate. that little skunk trotted 50 yards up the drive, stood on the porch, and took off. No good but this is why I keep the pup on lead for nighttime uriniation.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

RosiesPaw said:


> we've got a skunk that was living under the shed when we moved into the property 2 years ago. I've sealed off all entry points under structures, so it's had to find a new place to live, but I'll be darned if it doesn't trot around the half acre, right behind the bedroom window some nights...
> 
> a few nights ago I had decided to sleep out in the Vanagon (space is nice) and heard some rustling up at the gate. that little skunk trotted 50 yards up the drive, stood on the porch, and took off. No good but this is why I keep the pup on lead for nighttime uriniation.


I never even carried a flashlight in the pitch black woods at night until 2 years ago (another skunk incident lol)


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Yikes! I hate skunks. We had a run in with a skunk just the other night, thank goodness Nads has a good recall.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

NadDog24 said:


> Yikes! I hate skunks. We had a run in with a skunk just the other night, thank goodness Nads has a good recall.


Years ago, I had one absolutely chase Harley 150 feet back towards me after at first popping out of the woods between us


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

We've been struggling all week with a litter of three baby skunks that have moved onto our property. They can be anywhere in the gardens, which are really dense and leafy so I have to go out on the deck and watch carefully for a bit to see if anything is moving. They did move in under our deck for a night but hubby found the spot, blocked it off and is playing music on a bluetooth speaker there much of the time. We thought the problem was solved as we hadn't seen them for a couple of days but tonight we were down working by our pool with Remy when he headed for the fence and was standing stock still. Looked over and saw two little black and white tails in the bush on the outside of the fence. He ignored me when I called him so I doused him with the hose and he backed off. Then I aimed at the skunks to haze them. They took off but left a parting, stinky gift. Fortunately young skunks don't carry a full charge and the wind was in my favour! Any suggestions about evicting skunks from one's property would be appreciated!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We have a Mom raccoon that decided to have her babies in my wood shed 2 years in a row and I think/thought I had a skunk under it. Mothballs don't appear to have worked so I'm going to try some rags soaked in bleach next year.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Saw a biggish coyote on the path behind our house today. He saw us and didn’t care but just calmly trotted off into the bush. I’ve noticed it hanging around in the wildlife corridor behind our house before too. If only it would take care of our rabbit problem. I found a nest in my garden yesterday after I’d been away for a few days. I had already found two prior but with no babies so I filed them in. This time there’s babies for sure.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> Saw a biggish coyote on the path behind our house today. He saw us and didn’t care but just calmly trotted off into the bush. I’ve noticed it hanging around in the wildlife corridor behind our house before too. If only it would take care of our rabbit problem. I found a nest in my garden yesterday after I’d been away for a few days. I had already found two prior but with no babies so I filed them in. This time there’s babies for sure.


Yes this is the year for rabbits for sure and the love to nest in our gardens. I see at least 4-5-6 babies on the path around the pond each morning and they don't even bother hopping into the long grass until you're 20-30 feet away.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)




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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

We were horrifically lazy today and drove to shop (we had to buy dog food and cat litter; walking for groceries is one thing but the pet store is in the opposite direction and that stuff is heavy and there's a decent hill #iamlazy). Almost hit a coyote ducking into some bushes on a side street near the big park. (In other news, for Canadians, Global Pet Foods has a buy one, get one half off for the giant boxes of poop bag rolls right now! I am also cheap!)

Haven't seen the coyotes that live in the ravine in the little park across the street lately, perhaps because it's not as dark at 5am? Won't see them for a bit now I suspect as the neighbourhood psychopaths let off fireworks in the baseball diamond every holiday so for Canada Day it was boom boom boom for two hours...Nebbers could care less, Agis repairs to the safety of the (windowless) bathroom and Xerxes wanders about nervously. There'll be fireworks tonight and tomorrow too because why have fireworks one night when your reign of terror can last multiple nights...(in other news, I am not a fan of fireworks)

We have a lot of foxes around this year. Some deer in the big park.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Darn- I wish I’d seen the poop bag sale earlier as I already did my shopping lol! I haven’t seen deer for a bit but they tend to come around us in waves then disappear for stretches. I only saw a fox way back in spring but we don’t get many around our neighbourhood fir some reason.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

cagal said:


> Darn- I wish I’d seen the poop bag sale earlier as I already did my shopping lol! I haven’t seen deer for a bit but they tend to come around us in waves then disappear for stretches. I only saw a fox way back in spring but we don’t get many around our neighbourhood fir some reason.


They didn't have it advertised I don't think - we went up to the counter with one box and they said, hey, do you know...

I don't know what is up with all the foxes this year! Kinda nice to see a wild canid that's not a coyote.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> View attachment 589232


That's awesome!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

cagal said:


> Darn- I wish I’d seen the poop bag sale earlier as I already did my shopping lol! I haven’t seen deer for a bit but they tend to come around us in waves then disappear for stretches. I only saw a fox way back in spring but we don’t get many around our neighbourhood fir some reason.


We had this big girl visiting in the yard twice (that I know of) in the last few days. I watched for a fawn following but no luck so far. Their coats are beautiful this time of year against the vibrant greens of the yard.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

I had a skunk problem not too long ago. I found out it lives under my neighbor’s deck. It dug a hole from the deck to my house. It went to the park, my mom walked Fern there as well. It was sitting by a felled log. Early morning came and it was laying by the log, it was dead. We didn’t like the skunk but it was honestly sad RIP. My brother is a bit sad over it since he saved a baby skunk from a cat.


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## peachygeorgia (Oct 5, 2021)

I live in Northern KY, we've only seen one coyote around here in the years I've lived here, since we're right in the middle of town but also on 8 acres of forest, many animals take refuge here. We've had two skunk sprays, same dog🤦🏼‍♀️ hate them.
As for deer, lots of them, they stay away from our house mostly because of the dogs but we see them in the yard eating off our bushes from time to time, ive only seen a fox once.

As for the coyote, it came too close to the house once and the dogs lit after it early in the morning when we let them out, about 4 of them, our biggest ones, they cornered it in a ditch and killed it before I could even blink, I felt awful, but I was grateful it was quick, we buried it out in the forest. Thats the first and last we've seen, thankfully.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

This was taken by my parent’s neighbour’s trail cam on their property. There are actually 3 cubs, as 3 were spotted crossing the road nearby. I am pausing hikes for a while on my parents’ property ….








Unfortunately another neighbour further down the road illegally feeds them to (also illegally) shoot them later in the season.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Zeppy said:


> This was taken by my parent’s neighbour’s trail cam on their property. There are actually 3 cubs, as 3 were spotted crossing the road nearby. I am pausing hikes for a while on my parents’ property ….
> View attachment 589312
> 
> Unfortunately another neighbour further down the road illegally feeds them to (also illegally) shoot them later in the season.


I'd find a way to report that somehow....we have a returning sow at the lake that generally shows us 2-3 cubs every other year. She used to like the neighbors bird feeder, almost exactly like this "bear proof" set up.


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## Rob_Drifter (Apr 11, 2021)

This morning, early, around 3:45am, me and Annie heard a coyote howl VERY close by, across the street from the house. I got my phone out for a recording/video but it was too late, it only howled one time!! Annie didn't really seem phased at all which I thought was interesting.

I noticed the morning was less busy as usual because there were no usual rabbits, the 2 foxes, or any deer. I could just be making stuff up, but maybe the other critters knew that some "big dogs" were close by 😀.

I'll keep a mental note the next time and see if it is a pattern!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I've seen our coyote(s) twice in the last week now, one very healthy and one the horribly mangy one. I'm not sure how that one survived the Winter. Both times they were skirting out yard and both times running such that I just got a glimpse of them.

I saw mangy today out the side patio doors and ran to the front door (towards which it was heading) and went out front grabbing a walking stick off the porch but it was gone gone gone already into the bush at the side yard. I couldn't see it and not a sound.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

The healthy coyote ran through the yard again yesterday. I'm 100% sure they don't like rounding the nearest blind corner of the pond since the grass is so high and they've likely been surprised to meet people/dogs with notice so the come down through our yard which is woods to woods so they can come up further down the pond. I got a nice picture, I'll see if I can post it later.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Coyote bites child in west end Toronto park: police


Police say a coyote bit a child in a west end Toronto park on Saturday afternoon.




toronto.ctvnews.ca













People in Toronto neighbourhood afraid after coyote attacks woman in her garden


A Toronto woman says that a bold coyote nipped her pant leg off while she was gardening in a Scarborough neighbourhood this morning.




toronto.ctvnews.ca


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Coyote bites child in west end Toronto park: police
> 
> 
> Police say a coyote bit a child in a west end Toronto park on Saturday afternoon.
> ...


Yikes, at her own home? Toronto is becoming more and more like NE Calgary each day lol


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Young girl bitten by coyote, Oshawa residents asked to take precaution


Durham Regional Police Service (DRPS) is urging Oshawa residents to take precautions after a six-year-old girl was bitten by a coyote Thursday evening.




www.cp24.com


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Zeppy said:


> Yikes, at her own home? Toronto is becoming more and more like NE Calgary each day lol


At the rate I see them in a growing community built on former farmer's fields (mice hunting) alongside woods/ravines/creeks and trails, I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents beyond a few dogs attacked and cats taken that I 'm aware of.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Here in my side yard is the healthy one I see often. Poor quality as it's taken through the dog nose print covered patio door


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

Any skunk tips? We've got one under the shed, or somewhere in the vicinity. Doesn't spray but ALWAYS smells awful. Smells like its always leaking spray and gets very close to the house. Have to close the windows as I think it circles the Perimeter.

Its a problem due to smell and also I don't want Rosie to get tangled up.

Any ideas?


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Live trap it. Use cat food or tuna as bait, you can tie a rope to the trap to pull the skunk away from the house so if it sprays it won’t be as bad. What you do after you trap it is entirely up to you.


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## SFury (7 mo ago)

RosiesPaw said:


> Any ideas?


That sounds like an unhealthy animal. We have skunks around here, and they don't have a constant smell to them. If legal, it may be best to just kill it with a small caliber rifle like a .22 or other small rimfire round.

If you choose to live trap, or to kill, the animal remember to take precautions not to get the chemical they spray on you, or anything you want to keep. It's a smell that cannot be gotten rid of easily. My family learned that when one of our dogs got sprayed. If you think the smell is bad now...

The alternative would be to hire a professional to remove the animal. With skunks, that may not be a bad idea, depending on the cost for the pest removal.

Skunks are one of the most challenging pests to get rid of. Good luck.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

I would ask animal control for advice. I’m in Sacramento (ish) area and I don’t think we’re allowed to trap anything. I got chased by a skunk once. I also witnessed two other dog owners being chased down the street and around a corner! The skunks live under my neighbor’s house 😭


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

@RosiesPaw , skunks can only spray if their tail is raised. A properly sized life trap with a blanket over top, leaving only the one entrance open, is the key (they like hidey holes). I’ve also heard they love froot loops and marshmallows. Once it is caught, just leave the blanket over it and release it far far away. My mom caught an entire family of skunks this way and relocated mother skunk and her babies.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

If you are smelling it, it sprayed something. OR, your neighbor or your teenager is smoking a lot of weed.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

RosiesPaw said:


> Any skunk tips? We've got one under the shed, or somewhere in the vicinity. Doesn't spray but ALWAYS smells awful. Smells like its always leaking spray and gets very close to the house. Have to close the windows as I think it circles the Perimeter.
> 
> Its a problem due to smell and also I don't want Rosie to get tangled up.
> 
> Any ideas?


I had one living under my shed and a combination of moth balls and rags soaked in bleach seems to work. The mother raccoon that chose to birth IN the shed seemed undeterred however and it became her nursery for the 3rd year in a row ....

I tried to live trap the skunk a few years ago (blanket over it with long rope attached, waterfall 50 feet away....) and was told to skip the cat food (you'll catch the neighbor's cat) and use a marshmallow.....I caught an embarrassed raccoon 2 nights in a row and gave up.

There's stuff called Critter Ritter (sp)


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

drparker151 said:


> If you are smelling it, it sprayed something. OR, your neighbor or your teenager is smoking a lot of weed.


i thought the same thing about having sprayed, but it STINKS as it trots around. The smell doesn't linger but moves with the animal. Very unusual. It had been living under the house before we moved in 2 years ago and did spray where it's burrowing spot was, leaving us with with a stinky living room for 2 months... Also, I live in the emerald triangle, marijuana capital of the world, it's definitely not weed 



Hopps said:


> I would ask animal control for advice. I’m in Sacramento (ish) area and I don’t think we’re allowed to trap anything. I got chased by a skunk once. I also witnessed two other dog owners being chased down the street and around a corner! The skunks live under my neighbor’s house 😭



that's a good idea. Animal control here is the Sheriff. They came a knocking over a fox and kits that were living here for a spell and pilfering chickens. They found and removed the fox (to my dismay), so maybe they'll do the same with a skunk.



SFury said:


> That sounds like an unhealthy animal. We have skunks around here, and they don't have a constant smell to them. If legal, it may be best to just kill it with a small caliber rifle like a .22 or other small rimfire round.
> 
> If you choose to live trap, or to kill, the animal remember to take precautions not to get the chemical they spray on you, or anything you want to keep. It's a smell that cannot be gotten rid of easily. My family learned that when one of our dogs got sprayed. If you think the smell is bad now...
> 
> ...


i thought about breaking out the old marlin .22 LR with some subsonic rounds. Not sure if that's the route i will take though. I think i'll call animal control first.



WNGD said:


> I had one living under my shed and a combination of moth balls and rags soaked in bleach seems to work. The mother raccoon that chose to birth IN the shed seemed undeterred however and it became her nursery for the 3rd year in a row ....
> 
> I tried to live trap the skunk a few years ago (blanket over it with long rope attached, waterfall 50 feet away....) and was told to skip the cat food (you'll catch the neighbor's cat) and use a marshmallow.....I caught an embarrassed raccoon 2 nights in a row and gave up.
> 
> There's stuff called Critter Ritter (sp)


you know, that in the shed business is a problem. a portion of the shed or outbuilding is falling apart and i noticed some fecal matter in there that appeared to be far too large even for norway wood rats. i'm hoping it's not the skunk.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

@WNGD you deal with coyotes frequently. How do I explain to someone that it’s a really bad idea to let their young dog play with coyotes? I told them coyotes often trick dogs and kill them. A few people have been posting their 6-10 month dogs (GSD, dobies and other medium/large dogs) playing with coyotes. They just refuse to believe that it’s dangerous. Their dogs will go out of sight sometimes but come back. It’s so infuriating!


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## SFury (7 mo ago)

Coyotes are wild animals, and should never be allowed to interact with dogs. We have had many dogs lured away and killed around here. It's sad that people refuse to acknowledge simple well known facts.

All you can do is be blunt and honest with them.

As someone who was able to keep my dogs with me, and not eaten, one night when the little savages tried to call them away I have no illusions as to the kind of threat they represent.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Hopps said:


> @WNGD you deal with coyotes frequently. How do I explain to someone that it’s a really bad idea to let their young dog play with coyotes? I told them coyotes often trick dogs and kill them. A few people have been posting their 6-10 month dogs (GSD, dobies and other medium/large dogs) playing with coyotes. They just refuse to believe that it’s dangerous. Their dogs will go out of sight sometimes but come back. It’s so infuriating!


Coyotes can seem cute and harmless and can actually play with dogs without harming them (so can wolves with sled dogs).

But there's no way to know when that ends or they decide it's snack time. Google coyote bites dog and choose video. Once you've seen a little dog attacked and carted off (I've seen one run after and bite a Rottie too) you won't think there so cute or take a chance.

I'm so glad I have dogs that won't be targeted and make it the other way around.


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## SFury (7 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> I'm so glad I have dogs that won't be targeted and make it the other way around.


Don't be so certain of that. If they pack up they can, and will, go after larger dogs. They have tried to lure out one of my co-workers boxers out of their yard. Not exactly small dogs.

While their packs are not as cohesive as a wolf pack, they can still accomplish safely killing larger animals. It's how they take down larger animals like deer safely. There have been some documentaries done on the Yellowstone coyote packs, and they have video footage of them taking down larger animals. There have been various other trailcam videos, photo shoots, of a coyote pack killing whitetail deer posted on youtube.

Impressive acts by a smaller animal that many perceive as mostly harmless.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Does anyone have a stock protection donkey? Feral donkeys are being trained in Australia to protect sheep from wild dogs.









'Soul-destroyed' sheep farmers find hope from once-feral donkeys


Properties in the Hunter Valley, left demoralised by wild dog attacks, find a saviour in an animal perhaps known best for its stubborn nature but with an incredible ability to bond with, and protect, other livestock.




www.abc.net.au


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Some people have donkeys around here in with their stock.I've heard of llamas used in that capacity also.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

SFury said:


> Don't be so certain of that. If they pack up they can, and will, go after larger dogs. They have tried to lure out one of my co-workers boxers out of their yard. Not exactly small dogs.
> 
> While their packs are not as cohesive as a wolf pack, they can still accomplish safely killing larger animals. It's how they take down larger animals like deer safely. There have been some documentaries done on the Yellowstone coyote packs, and they have video footage of them taking down larger animals. There have been various other trailcam videos, photo shoots, of a coyote pack killing whitetail deer posted on youtube.
> 
> Impressive acts by a smaller animal that many perceive as mostly harmless.


It's not "larger" dog, it's the disposition and ability to follow up.

I'm very familiar with coyotes and their habits/abilities/tricks. My older dog is VERY coyote aggressive, we have trailed them dozens and dozens of times, run them off countless times, chased them for miles, seen them hundreds; I live in coyotes country on the edge of town but on a ravine attached to over 500 miles of wooded trails. 

This is what people fail to understand, healthy well-fed coyotes won't engage an animal that can injure, maim or kill it. In nature, that generally means infection and you are dead. In a area teeming with rabbits, squirrels and mice, why mess with an 80 pound angry GSD? And he is faast. Never mind his 115 pound male buddy and 200 pound owner? My younger GSD pinned one under a rose thicket and took tons of thorns for his efforts. They turn into completely different dogs when they see them; nature not taught.

Even 100 yards away, 2-3 coyotes always and immediately run in the opposite direction. A deer, a Lab, a Boxer are soft targets to them in comparison as are every Yorkiepoo, Doodle or cat. I've seen them attempt to play with a neighbor's Malamute, ill intent? I have no idea in that instance but there are certainly well documented instances of them luring small dogs into the woods. Another neighbor's small dog was bitten in her yard along the same ravine.

I've seen video of a yote kind of playing with a Rottweiller in a school yard and bit it when it recalled to the owner...soft dog. I assure you my Rottie would have killed it in a heartbeat. I'm not trying to sound like an internet tough guy but that dog was serious.

I think I may have told this story above but I have a friend with two GSD farm dogs that spend their days in a tire auto shop. Nice enough dogs but not to be messed with. Has killed 2 coyotes on the farm in flight/roll/broken neck and comes up smiling. Still keeps the dogs away from the den in Spring though.

I sometimes wonder how many people have seen a full on pissed GSD intent to kill something. If it's not your dog, you will be terrified. 

A 40 pound yote or two? Pfftttttt ....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Dunkirk said:


> Does anyone have a stock protection donkey? Feral donkeys are being trained in Australia to protect sheep from wild dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I have friend with ~15 goats and a guard donkey. They live on the other side of the woods from us, lots of coyotes there. Not one will go near a pen with a guard donkey in it. They bond to sheep or goats like you wouldn't believe and get very protective, will stomp any coyote out. 

We had a Llama guarding beef cattle and miniature horses with coyotes denning on the back 20. Never lost a calf or horse. The male mini horse protecting his ladies could be a handful too lol


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

SFury said:


> Coyotes are wild animals, and should never be allowed to interact with dogs. We have had many dogs lured away and killed around here. It's sad that people refuse to acknowledge simple well known facts.
> 
> All you can do is be blunt and honest with them.
> 
> As someone who was able to keep my dogs with me, and not eaten, one night when the little savages tried to call them away I have no illusions as to the kind of threat they represent.


I tried to tell them about coyotes luring dogs away etc and they seem to think “that won’t happen to me!” I’m just not a fan of dogs interacting with wild animas consistently. There’s lots of humanizing the coyote and dog’s relationship…


WNGD said:


> Coyotes can seem cute and harmless and can actually play with dogs without harming them (so can wolves with sled dogs).
> 
> But there's no way to know when that ends or they decide it's snack time. Google coyote bites dog and choose video. Once you've seen a little dog attacked and carted off (I've seen one run after and bite a Rottie too) you won't think there so cute or take a chance.
> 
> I'm so glad I have dogs that won't be targeted and make it the other way around.


I did send them a video of a coyote running up to a lady and trying to snatch up her little dog. Some of my acquaintances were shocked but they insist their dog is “friends” with the coyote. And the coyote “won’t betray” their dog. From what they’re describing their dog’s recall is getting weaker and the dog is going further out every visit. Lots of humanizing what’s going on! I think I’ll go the route of their dog can get diseases from coyotes.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Hopps said:


> I tried to tell them about coyotes luring dogs away etc and they seem to think “that won’t happen to me!” I’m just not a fan of dogs interacting with wild animas consistently. There’s lots of humanizing the coyote and dog’s relationship…
> 
> 
> I did send them a video of a coyote running up to a lady and trying to snatch up her little dog. Some of my acquaintances were shocked but they insist their dog is “friends” with the coyote. And the coyote “won’t betray” their dog. From what they’re describing their dog’s recall is getting weaker and the dog is going further out every visit. Lots of humanizing what’s going on! I think I’ll go the route of their dog can get diseases from coyotes.


That's where coy-dogs come from. I shudder to think of Rogan's size getting into the coyote family here. Dogs have been known to leave and start running with coyote packs too....or eventually get attacked. There's no upside to letting them interact or thinking they're friendly.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

WNGD said:


> That's where coy-dogs come from. I shudder to think of Rogan's size getting into the coyote family here. Dogs have been known to leave and start running with coyote packs too....or eventually get attacked. There's no upside to letting them interact or thinking they're friendly.


It's a weird thing, some people are trying to live out that The Fox and the Hound fantasy. I hope they come to their senses. The last thing we need are super coyotes running around!


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## SFury (7 mo ago)

Dunkirk said:


> Does anyone have a stock protection donkey? Feral donkeys are being trained in Australia to protect sheep from wild dogs.


Donkeys proved to be one of the most effective wolf deterrents in Wisconsin. Better than any breed of guard dog.

@Hopps have you ever seen the coyotes in the Phoenix area? Those suckers are bigger than their Wisconsin cousins and can leap over a 7' fence with ease. It was amazing seeing one hop over a fence from just standing still. Such adaptable and smart critters.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

SFury said:


> Donkeys proved to be one of the most effective wolf deterrents in Wisconsin. Better than any breed of guard dog.
> 
> @Hopps have you ever seen the coyotes in the Phoenix area? Those suckers are bigger than their Wisconsin cousins and can leap over a 7' fence with ease. It was amazing seeing one hop over a fence from just standing still. Such adaptable and smart critters.


I have not! The ones in my area before moving were quite small and very nimble. I was surprised to see them thriving in a suburban area.


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## Pb57 (Aug 14, 2021)

WNGD, normally I usually agree with things you have posted but have to disagree on the dog vs coyote. I have hunted coyotes for years, im 65. I have yet to have a dog able to kill a coyote one on one. Our yotes in Iowa are 35 to 45 pounds with a large one being 50. They are so tough, with such a desire to fight and live for another day. They will definitely run most of the time but get them corned or injured they will fight to the death. I have had several 100 pound German shepherd that loved to fight. One on one they could kill a raccoon protecting our chickens but it was a fight to behold. I am truly amazed how tough a coyote is. And a timber wolf is another matter. I dont think there are 2 dogs alive that could kill a 150 pound wolf. Just my opinion backed up by years of hunting coyotes and other animals. Paul


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## xthine (Nov 9, 2018)

Too busy minding this coyote on our morning walk and almost missed the off leash dog bounding towards us from the driveway. Coyote did not chase the other dog as it came for us. 





















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Pb57 said:


> WNGD, normally I usually agree with things you have posted but have to disagree on the dog vs coyote. I have hunted coyotes for years, im 65. I have yet to have a dog able to kill a coyote one on one. Our yotes in Iowa are 35 to 45 pounds with a large one being 50. They are so tough, with such a desire to fight and live for another day. They will definitely run most of the time but get them corned or injured they will fight to the death. I have had several 100 pound German shepherd that loved to fight. One on one they could kill a raccoon protecting our chickens but it was a fight to behold. I am truly amazed how tough a coyote is. And a timber wolf is another matter. I don't think there are 2 dogs alive that could kill a 150 pound wolf. Just my opinion backed up by years of hunting coyotes and other animals. Paul


No worries, differing opinions based on experience is always welcomed and encouraged.
My personal experience is a bit different as I have a friend on a farm in Milton with 2 GSD farm dogs that spend their day as shop guard dogs. The one has run down 2 separate coyotes on the farm, rolled and broke it's neck instantly. 

I have personally come on them hundreds of times over the last 28 years (just based on seeing them avg monthly and I see them far more often than that) living on this property with sheltering woods bordering a deep ravine and stream.

After letting my previous bitch and my current older male run them off dozens of times over 20 years, I can tell you now that they now retreat IMMEDIATELY when seeing us on the trail even 100 yards off. We have trailed them for miles many times when we can see them in the Winter. I don't say this cavalierly and don't recommend anyone actively engages any wild animal. I do because I purposely prefer to haze them.

No coyote will engage with a full sized 80 pound GSD coming at them with intent (I'm not talking a lovely soft pet but then, neither are you), there is simply no upside for them and they are much faster than our dogs. Therefore there's very little empirical data since the yote will actively avoid the fight. I've seen it, I've lived it and I know it.

Of course there's a tremendous will to live in a coyote as in most wild animals. Try to corner a **** or even a gopher or muskrat and see where that gets you 

Talk of Timber Wolves is not really germane to this discussion, apples and oranges, no dog has a chance against a full sized wolf.

Bottom line is that yotes are smart, adaptive and getting bolder in many urban spaces. Be in the know and be prepared.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We're in the middle of quite the issue-outbreak right now. 









Burlington, Ont. activates crisis management team after coyote attack at retirement home | Globalnews.ca


The City of Burlington revealed the sixth unprovoked coyote attack of 2022 happened on a patio at a seniors home on New Street on Saturday.




globalnews.ca













Jogger ‘shaken’ by coyote attack in Burlington | Globalnews.ca


Kelly Zahavich says she encountered the wild animal on an early morning run three weeks ago near the Centennial Multiuse Trail at Seneca Avenue.




globalnews.ca













Burlington investigating recent coyote attacks on people in city’s south side - Hamilton | Globalnews.ca


In a release on Monday, city staff said their first reported coyote attacks on humans in Burlington happened in the south end in 2022.




globalnews.ca


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

The City of Burlington has hired a trapper since they believe that these (6 recent) biting incidents are from one coyote family and it's learned behavior. They trapped one and put it down. The City is handing out whistles training literature for the stupid humans ....

My dogs went nuts at the dining room window about 2:00 AM last night (don't you love waking up to that?) and sure enough there was fresh coyote poop in my driveway this morning. We're about a 10 minute drive from where all the attacks have happened, I met an older lady solo walking this morning who was really concerned and going to buy some bear/coyote/dog spray.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

These guys came out of the bush around 5:30 tonight. There’s 3 by the creek. Django spotted them and promptly made sure his yellow ball was safely in his mouth. At least the barking was muffled lol.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

That's how far the creek is from my front door but I have never seen the yotes in there.
1/ It's heavily treed much of the year and hard to see
and
2/ They're a bit hemmed in by steep ravine on one side and a 20' waterfall on one end that they probably don't want to be chased over


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@cagal I love that his first instinct was his ball!!!!


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## Chuuyas_Wine_Glass (4 mo ago)

I've got coyotes right down the road in the suburbs, thankfully have not seen one but always hear them at night coming into town. Farther out we have wolf problems with farm animals being killed, but of course they don't let you do anything about it with them being protected again and more reintroduction going on. 
And then there's the mutants squirrels in my yard. Anyone else have those gang up and try to go after your dogs? 🤣 A neighbor was feeding the dumb things and now there's an army that will come running down a tree to try and grab my mini drone or want to run right up to my little dog and are hardly afraid of people. They've started to be more wary of my shepherd though after she almost got one that was a little slow to run so maybe our problems are over lol.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Chuuyas_Wine_Glass said:


> I've got coyotes right down the road in the suburbs, thankfully have not seen one but always hear them at night coming into town. Farther out we have wolf problems with farm animals being killed, but of course they don't let you do anything about it with them being protected again and more reintroduction going on.
> And then there's the mutants squirrels in my yard. Anyone else have those gang up and try to go after your dogs? 🤣 A neighbor was feeding the dumb things and now there's an army that will come running down a tree to try and grab my mini drone or want to run right up to my little dog and are hardly afraid of people. They've started to be more wary of my shepherd though after she almost got one that was a little slow to run so maybe our problems are over lol.


We must have 100 trees (many huge maples) just in the yard (150X250) and 5 acres behind attached to 500 miles of trails and ravines. Translation, we never have less than a half dozen squirrels on the ground/in the trees whenever we walk out. They're always digging up the lawn or garden and I've battled red squirrels trying to store hundreds of walnuts in my shed, trying to nest in my garage, trying to set up shop in the walls and chewing on wires. 

Over time, Harley has caught and killed 6 or 7 of the little tree rats and while I don't actively encourage it, I don't stop him from running them up a tree although I would prefer he didn't catch them. He has a chunk out of his nose for not dispatching one quickly enough. Odd though, most of them he's got by worrying them into falling out fo a tree or off an electrical wire. 

To answer your question, no I don't have any issues with them ganging up on my dog(s).


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Our previous shepherd loved chasing squirrels. While she "only" caught three (and could add several chipmunks to the tally, and a rat or three), I give her an asterisk next to that total, because at the property we owned then, a squirrel was never more than 25 feet from a tree. It was like a baseball runner stealing home. They should not be able to do it, but by timing everything just right and of course blazing fast twitch acceleration helps, they sometimes do it, and so did she. She scared many, many more than she caught. 

And no, the arboreal rodents wanted no part of her. Funny story, we took her to Mobile, Alabama once, and were walking her around downtown. There were some squirrels in a a park, used to eating leftover pigeon food, acorns on the ground, whatever. They were not used to being chased by dogs. So she ran one up a tree (tugging me along on the leash, like a waterskier on land) , and he went only a short distance, before he turned around to chatter at her. She leaped up at him, kind of like when they first encounter the shark lunging at the back of the boat in *Jaws. *He then ran up to the crown of the tree, much to the delight of these old guys in the park who were watching the whole thing. 

Now that I think about it, that girl never encountered a coyote that I can recall. Around the time we lost her, construction got going on a bike trail project that may have disrupted coyote habitat and prompted them to move around more. Anyway, sightings got much more frequent after we got the current two GSDs. By the time we moved, 2021, sightings were a regular occurrence, and one neighbor behind us lost a little white dog to them.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Update on the 7 coyote bitings in a small area I posted above: 3 have been caught and destroyed. A sad ending for all concerned.








Third coyote 'eliminated' in Burlington following seven recent unprovoked attacks


A third coyote has been killed following a series of recent unprovoked attacks against humans in south central Burlington.




toronto.ctvnews.ca





Shaking my head at the guy relieved because he lost a cat to coyotes not long ago....and still has cats loose outside


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

We were talking last night about how squirrels aren't located where we live. Rosie would go bonkers if they were.

Saw a grey fox on a neighborhood walk last night. Small thing that I had heard making noise for a block or so but wasn't sure what it was. Got to a crossing and saw it slink off into the woods. Rosie wasn't sure what was going on but the smell had her nose to the ground something fierce.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

The boys spend about half our 30 minute morning walk just nose down, smelling for who came through in the night and marking their territory.


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

WNGD said:


> Update on the 7 coyote bitings in a small area I posted above: 3 have been caught and destroyed. A sad ending for all concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This drives me crazy - I see cats occasionally in our neighborhood but they’re never around for long. I can’t understand how anyone would allow a cat out around here. Not only do the coyotes go in the back and on the path frequently but I’ve seen them right on our street as it is the connection from the big river to our creek and green corridor. My neighbour is elderly and can’t sleep at night sometimes and she said they’re on our street quite often. Cats outside wouldn’t stand a chance. The missing posters always make me so sad.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Toby's sister lost a cat to a coyote - like killed in front of them. Despite this, they let their new cats out. When Toby questioned this, given the horrible nature of their old cat's death, she informed him that the cat 'died peacefully'. I had to intervene before a family rift developed...died peacefully...what the...


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

People don't seem to realize that eagles will snatch up a cat as well. People with outdoor cats have to be realistic about the dangers. Too many people don't want to admit how unforgiving nature is.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I know what you're saying but nature of course doesn't have the capacity to be forgiving or unforgiving no more than the sun can be heartless or the sea cruel; it's just nature.

I tell people "if you want to let your pets live like wild animals, wild things will hapen to them"
It's not just coyotes but skunks, owls, raccoons, other cats .... and mean people.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Valor ran a lone coyote off a few times last week. I think he decided to move on because we haven't seen him in a few.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

@WNGD whats your plan when the bypass comes through your neck of the woods and those 2000 homes, plaza and condo 😤


----------



## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Someone posted a video from their security camera last week (5 minutes away from me). A coyote jumped up 6 feet and grabbed a cat off the fence. Poor thing. Another person used an air horn to scare the coyote while it had a cat in their mouth. Apparently it growled at her instead of just escaping.


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Carter Smith said:


> @WNGD whats your plan when the bypass comes through your neck of the woods and those 2000 homes, plaza and condo 😤


Another bypass? Geez. And just what the GTHA needs, another gigantic development with single family homes taking down trees and farmland! All the coyotes will want to relocate to @WNGD's neck of the woods too, at least during construction.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

jarn said:


> Another bypass? Geez. And just what the GTHA needs, another gigantic development with single family homes taking down trees and farmland! All the coyotes will want to relocate to @WNGD's neck of the woods too, at least during construction.


I know right


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@Carter Smith I have a rough idea of where he is too...I think it's near where I used to be a trail captain for the Bruce. That's making me grumpy!


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> Valor ran a lone coyote off a few times last week. I think he decided to move on because we haven't seen him in a few.


I saw a story on a US news station of coyote problems they were having and among others, it mentioned the recent bitings (7) they had nearby here. Haven't seen mine in a few weeks but doubt it's the same ones they shot, 10 minute drive from here.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> @WNGD whats your plan when the bypass comes through your neck of the woods and those 2000 homes, plaza and condo 😤


Not sure what bypass you're talking about (are you talking about Doug Ford's new hwy 413?). That ends quite a bit East of me at 407 and 401

I'm north west of Burlington and a bypass going through there is needed to get congestion off Hwy 5 but is just more urban sprawl coming.

My plan is to get out of here in 5 years and retire on a lake somewhere no one has ever heard of ....
Prices are nuts though, I looked a a great property near Thornbury/Meaford that had 30 acres of open field and mixed bush on 2000 feet of really nice river frontage. $4.8M for a river property wth!


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Hopps said:


> Someone posted a video from their security camera last week (5 minutes away from me). A coyote jumped up 6 feet and grabbed a cat off the fence. Poor thing. Another person used an air horn to scare the coyote while it had a cat in their mouth. Apparently it growled at her instead of just escaping.


On the newscast they showed exactly that with a Chi attacked and the coyote was carrying it off but was scared off with an airhorn. Hard to watch when you can't let your own dogs out in a fenced yard.


----------



## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

WNGD said:


> Not sure what bypass you're talking about (are you talking about Doug Ford's new hwy 413?). That ends quite a bit East of me at 407 and 401
> 
> I'm north west of Burlington and a bypass going through there is needed to get congestion off Hwy 5 but is just more urban sprawl coming.
> 
> ...


Okay I thought you were Speyside-ish! Heh. So close, so close...I was trail captain for a side trail sorta between Speyside and Limehouse. 

That was our retirement plan too...but yeah, not so much, what with our lack of funds. Not to mention we have both a family doctor AND specialists where we are!


----------



## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Not sure what bypass you're talking about (are you talking about Doug Ford's new hwy 413?). That ends quite a bit East of me at 407 and 401
> 
> I'm north west of Burlington and a bypass going through there is needed to get congestion off Hwy 5 but is just more urban sprawl coming.
> 
> ...


Ya I’m talking about highway 5 bypass, expansion of waterdown rd. I grew up in waterdown 30 some odd years ago, different place today. I’ve wanted a farm forever, prices are crazy.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> Ya I’m talking about highway 5 bypass, expansion of waterdown rd. I grew up in waterdown 30 some odd years ago, different place today. I’ve wanted a farm forever, prices are crazy.


Waterdown used to be that cute country town with nothing but antique stores and a tea house.
No more; it's just another town ruined by sprawl and Walmart.

We had a horse farm in Milton, another town that's been destroyed


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Waterdown used to be that cute country town with nothing but antique stores and a tea house.
> No more; it's just another town ruined by sprawl and Walmart.
> 
> We had a horse farm in Milton, another town that's been destroyed


Yep to all of it


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Speaking of predators, I felt something hard on my rib cage and went to scratch it, felt weird and took a look.....embedded small tick. For some reason it was already dead and not engorged, first one on me in a couple of years, dug out the dogs last tick pill for the season and will give in the morning....


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

These stories are fairly constant now, be careful out there. There are dozens of squirrels in our yard constantly carrying mouthfuls of leaves up the trees as they build Winter nests. That's a coyote buffet right there. Harley ran one off the day before yesterday....





__





City investigating after disturbing video posted of coyote attacking dog in Edmonton






www.msn.com













Massachusetts dog walker surrounded by pack of coyotes: How to keep kids, dogs safe


A dog walker in Massachusetts called their local police department after a pack of coyotes approached. Here's how to keep your kids and dogs safe from coyotes.




www.foxnews.com


----------



## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

WNGD said:


> These stories are fairly constant now, be careful out there. There are dozens of squirrels in our yard constantly carrying mouthfuls of leaves up the trees as they build Winter nests. That's a coyote buffet right there. Harley ran one off the day before yesterday....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For all you Ontario folks, the Toronto Star had a very comprehensive article today on how the problem has been created and what needs to be done.. One thing that was mentioned, in some areas it is a custom to leave food offerings on the gravesite of a loved one. A cemetery in Scarborough is having a massive problem with this as it is a coyote buffet. This custom will require a lot of re-education for mourners. Signs have been posted but they are being largely ignored.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Quinnsmom said:


> For all you Ontario folks, the Toronto Star had a very comprehensive article today on how the problem has been created and what needs to be done.. One thing that was mentioned, in some areas it is a custom to leave food offerings on the gravesite of a loved one. A cemetery in Scarborough is having a massive problem with this as it is a coyote buffet. This custom will require a lot of re-education for mourners. Signs have been posted but they are being largely ignored.


I read that headline but it's behind a paywall to post here. I have never heard of a grave site food offering but obviously that would be problem with coyotes, squirrels and rats.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

They have really picked up here after the temp dropped. I've taken 3 in the last week within 25 meters of the camper.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> They have really picked up here after the temp dropped. I've taken 3 in the last week within 25 meters of the camper.


Taken?
Where are you now?

I haven't seen mine in a couple of weeks but know they're been around because of scat and the way Harley bolted into the high grass here I just got a glimpse of it running off.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Taken?
> Where are you now?
> 
> I haven't seen mine in a couple of weeks but know they're been around because of scat and the way Harley bolted into the high grass here I just got a glimpse of it running off.


We are in Northwest Ohio on a farm.

I shot them. They are killing livestock at the neighbors now. It's strange. They must have moved in very recently. I had that sighting earlier this year but that was it. Now they are definitely in the area and killing stuff.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> We are in Northwest Ohio on a farm.
> 
> I shot them. They are killing livestock at the neighbors now. It's strange. They must have moved in very recently. I had that sighting earlier this year but that was it. Now they are definitely in the area and killing stuff.


Got it.
We used to have them skulking around the horse barn occasionally probably after the barn cats but the kennel dogs would lets us know.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

David Winners said:


> They have really picked up here after the temp dropped. I've taken 3 in the last week within 25 meters of the camper.


Do they make the same sound they do in Red Dead Redemption when they are “taken”.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rogan weighed about 7X what she did in that picture...still about 5X. She still seeks him out and lays with him on his dog bed. He is so patient and gentle with her, considerng what a bull he is, it's incredible.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Kangaroos not _usually _violent or predatory...









How beloved pet dog came to woman's rescue during kangaroo attack







www.9news.com.au


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

We had a couple of squirrels out the sliding doors this afternoon and Harley was staring at them 1 foot outside the door. Suddenly, he goes off and I tell him "enough" but now he's staring off across the yard and there's a small but beautiful red fox eyeing the same squirrels. Haven't seen him for a few months, very cool. Rabbits beware!

Always listen to your dog!

Our coyotes has also been in a few times over the last 2 weeks.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Gun season for deer opened mid-November, ran through last Sunday. Have seen no coyotes, heard few howling, and seen only one deer on my place since it opened. 

Before the season opened, I had seen coyotes just downslope from our house, maybe 50-75 yards, on two recent morning walks. One loner, one which joined with another coyote after it crossed the fence. At the toe of the slope is a creek and a wood slope up the other side, so they made for that. A lot easier to see them with the leaves gone. 

They have not been bold enough to attack calves. The cows would raise holy heck, and they and the bull on premises would likely get after them. 
But I did find what looked like a red fox, with a neck bite. My female led me right up on it in a morning walk. Presumably a coyote victim.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Squidwardp said:


> Gun season for deer opened mid-November, ran through last Sunday. Have seen no coyotes, heard few howling, and seen only one deer on my place since it opened.
> 
> Before the season opened, I had seen coyotes just downslope from our house, maybe 50-75 yards, on two recent morning walks. One loner, one which joined with another coyote after it crossed the fence. At the toe of the slope is a creek and a wood slope up the other side, so they made for that. A lot easier to see them with the leaves gone.
> 
> ...


We had two deer roll through the yard a few days ago and one this morning. Nice to see them back.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

There were 18 deer in the field right behind the yard this morning. All within a couple hundred meters of the house.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> There were 18 deer in the field right behind the yard this morning. All within a couple hundred meters of the house.


Nice. The only things I see around here in great numbers at once are wild turkeys


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Ummm, the gloves are off. Kill these ones with prejudice.
Going after a toddler right beside her father getting out of the SUV. LA area









CTV News | Watch live | Video news


Watch LIVE events and breaking news video from Canada and around the world. CTV National News with Omar Sachedina, CTV News Channel and more.




www.ctvnews.ca


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Ummm, the gloves are off. Kill these ones with prejudice.
> Going after a toddler right beside her father getting out of the SUV. LA area
> 
> 
> ...


Yikes.. I saw a video of a coyote downtown Burlington in someone’s backyard full of mange, looked awful.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> Yikes.. I saw a video of a coyote downtown Burlington in someone’s backyard full of mange, looked awful.


We had a full on mange coyote around for two years, big pathes of fur missing fur and nothing on the tail. I have no idea how it survived the Winter, it was nearly bald the last time I saw it, just a spike for a tail.









And here's a beautiful healthy one










My daughter was leaving her work at a nursing home this week and encountered a very bold fox. Up the driveway, someone had left a pile of bread for it. People are so clueless


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

That poor little girl’s screams are haunting. How scary for the father and toddler.


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## Rosebud99 (9 mo ago)

And another young girl got attacked by a Raccoon. Her mom got it off of her but both had to get rabies shots.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> We had a full on mange coyote around for two years, big pathes of fur missing fur and nothing on the tail. I have no idea how it survived the Winter, it was nearly bald the last time I saw it, just a spike for a tail.
> View attachment 594550
> 
> 
> ...


My first thoughts were how will it survive the winter.. I usually see fox or coyotes for the year, it goes in waves.. last 2 years have been fox, then we saw a beautiful large coyote a couple weeks ago similar to the second pic, and I haven‘t seen fox all year.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Rosebud99 said:


> And another young girl got attacked by a Raccoon. Her mom got it off of her but both had to get rabies shots.


Saw that video. I would of given it one more heave.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rosebud99 said:


> And another young girl got attacked by a Raccoon. Her mom got it off of her but both had to get rabies shots.


That Mom was very brave to grab an angry raccoon like that AND hang on. Kinda funny when she flung it though


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> My first thoughts were how will it survive the winter.. I usually see fox or coyotes for the year, it goes in waves.. last 2 years have been fox, then we saw a beautiful large coyote a couple weeks ago similar to the second pic, and I haven‘t seen fox all year.


Our fox has just come back, seen him twice this week. This has been the year of rabbits though, everywhere, I see 2 or 3 every walk especially at dusk.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Our fox has just come back, seen him twice this week. This has been the year of rabbits though, everywhere, I see 2 or 3 every walk especially at dusk.


I’ll take rabbits over skunks, spring and fall.. unbearable.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> I’ll take rabbits over skunks, spring and fall.. unbearable.


Interestingly, I only saw one skunk this year, digging on a neighbor's lawn this Summer, late evening walk. Harley recalled (he know a skunk is a no go) and Rogan was leashed. 

Yup, don't like the skunks. I had one actually chase my dog once


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Georgia sheepdog fights off, kills 8 coyotes after pack attacks his sheep


A Georgia sheepdog named Casper is recovering from injuries suffered when he fought off a group of coyotes that attacked his sheep.




www.foxnews.com


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Just saw that Jenny, crazy. Flock protectors should be kept in twos


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## Minnie Cannoli (Mar 20, 2021)

Very interesting thread to read through!

We are in a major urban area. However, we live specifically in a tiny nook of forested area in the middle of suburbia. Coyotes, river otters, turtles, foxes, hawks, bald eagles, owls, raccoons, rabbits, deer, ducks, squirrels, lakes stocked with fish, etc. are common - almost daily - sites. I can see the coyotes roaming from my balcony right next to our building. Thankfully we've never seen a skunk. Some imbecile in the community leaves loaves of bread weekly for the geese down by the lake in the warm months. I haven't heard of any dogs getting snapped up by coyotes or foxes here. Maybe it's because there's so much other wildlife here, they don't feel the need to be bothered going after the dogs but I'm not entirely sure. What seems more dangerous in our community are the hawks! There have been multiple reports in the few years we've lived here of hawks swooping down and trying to snatch small dog breeds, severely injuring them (poor things). 

I'm thankful the resident coyotes seem to still have a healthy detachment from humans, even if they are bold enough to go right up to the buildings and through the parking lots. Last time I made direct eye contact with a coyote looking up at the balcony, I maintained eye contact and stood my ground (did not turn around, moved slightly forward over the railing). In retrospect I should have made some loud noises but it happened very suddenly and it was over quickly. I don't understand my ground-floor neighbors who will let their tiny toy breeds out without a leash right there. Our community doesn't have a problem with the coyotes so far, as long as they stay afraid of humans and don't attack pets. We usually keep each other informed on where the latest sightings of them are. They do a good job eating the goose eggs.

We don't have our puppy yet but this is something I do think and worry about. I need to protect them, at least when they are still tiny enough to be snatched! We think after 1 or 2 years we will get a medium-sized breed dog also, but I'm hoping staying as a "pack" will deter most natural dangers. I'm a bit scared if we ran into a coyote on our walks and they happen to be one of the bolder ones, what would I do? I am thinking about getting some type of noisemaker or spray deterrent before we get our puppy, just in case. And while I want our dog to be curious and not afraid of the wildlife here, I also want to discourage our dogs from trying to play or otherwise bother the little critters, if at all possible. For instance, on my walk the other day, there were 3 tiny motherless raccoon babies on our main street and my neighbor's husky REALLY was tugging his owner to go over there. 😅 (And usually that husky is a very polite and obedient walker.) I think he was scaring the bejeebus out of those babies.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Minnie Cannoli said:


> We don't have our puppy yet but this is something I do think and worry about. I need to protect them, at least when they are still tiny enough to be snatched! We think after 1 or 2 years we will get a medium-sized breed dog also, but I'm hoping staying as a "pack" will deter most natural dangers. I'm a bit scared if we ran into a coyote on our walks and they happen to be one of the bolder ones, what would I do? I am thinking about getting some type of noisemaker or spray deterrent before we get our puppy, just in case.


A stout walking stick is a good idea. those tiny air horns work, "aggressive dog" spray would work but you need to be in close quarters and up wind. Yelling at them, throwing something at them, running at them almost always works; they are opportunists, not really brave and don't want to actuall fight something igger than them for food. 

Almost all the videos I have seen where they go after a small dog or child have been when there wasn't a large male person standing beside it. They seem to be OK approaching teens or smaller women even with a dog on a leash.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

WNGD said:


> Our fox has just come back, seen him twice this week. This has been the year of rabbits though, everywhere, I see 2 or 3 every walk especially at dusk.


Fox came right through the yard again today. 
I also have a persistent grey squirrel trying to nest in my soffit so hopefully they meet each other


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Fox came right through the yard again today.
> I also have a persistent grey squirrel trying to nest in my soffit so hopefully they meet each other


Hahahaha


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Jenny720 said:


> Georgia sheepdog fights off, kills 8 coyotes after pack attacks his sheep
> 
> 
> A Georgia sheepdog named Casper is recovering from injuries suffered when he fought off a group of coyotes that attacked his sheep.
> ...


This story bothered me a bit. I feel like should have had at least 2 of these dogs, family friend has a small hobby farm and they got 3 of em. I wish they had thought of getting insurance for the dog since it took them some time to fundraise and shop for a vet they could afford. Hopefully they step it up, find their dog a working partner and a wolf collar or something...


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

Hopps said:


> This story bothered me a bit. I feel like should have had at least 2 of these dogs, family friend has a small hobby farm and they got 3 of em. I wish they had thought of getting insurance for the dog since it took them some time to fundraise and shop for a vet they could afford. Hopefully they step it up, find their dog a working partner and a wolf collar or something...


I read in another article that he did indeed have a partner but she had corralled the sheep away from the coyotes and was standing between the flock and the fight.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

The DW hit a deer on the way home last night.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

David Winners said:


> The DW hit a deer on the way home last night.


Valor hit the jackpot?


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

@WNGD just driving down waterdown road someone had hit a deer, tow truck and they had moved it to the shoulder. I had seen them at dusk in the fields to the west


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> @WNGD just driving down waterdown road someone had hit a deer, tow truck and they had moved it to the shoulder. I had seen them at dusk in the fields to the west


That's a field where you often see deer standing together or a huge rafter/flock of wild turkeys


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> That's a field where you often see deer standing together or a huge rafter/flock of wild turkeys


Lots of wild turkey


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Someone sent me this.. the white on the muzzle surprises me.. seems more prominent.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Holy crap.
That's walking along the fenceline like a raccoon or cat???

That's needs a well placed boot toss.
Next thing you know they'll be flying ....


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Holy crap.
> That's walking along the fenceline like a raccoon or cat???
> 
> That's needs a well placed boot toss.
> Next thing you know they'll be flying ....


I know crazy


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Last night about 10PM, Rogan went nuts at the dining room window and Harley joined in. The kind of barking/growling which 100% alwasy means someone is in the driveway or by the house; the kind I never ignore or tell them to be quiet. Harley joined in, great.

Then Rogan tried to literally claw and go through the window, not great. He never does that for just a Fedex guy or something. 

Looked outside and there was a coyote right in the middle of the yard, could see him easily against the inch of snow we have. I grabbed the flashlight I take on night walks and shone it on him and he bolted right away. Amazing how bold these things are at that hour and two big dogs that chase him regularly living here. 

I usually would go out and run him off, throw somethng at him but he took off when he was illuminated.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

I guess he was desperate before the wild winter storm we’re having ☂


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

I've had plenty of sightings of coyotes, many right in a neighborhood in the city limits of Cincinnati when we lived there, but until that photo, never saw one walk a fence like a tomcat. Geez. Even more agile than I thought. In Cincinnati, we used to have a fence very much like that one bordering the rear property line. Guess it wasn't coyote proof. .


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

They'll be coming in your 2nd story bedroom window soon


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

the prevalence of these smaller predators blows my mind. we've got ample grey fox in the neighborhoods around my place. no coyotes though. 

I mean aside human population expansion along with pets, livestock, and food waste, I'm not sure what the reason for such rapid growth is. I'm no biologist, but I'm wondering if the 100-200 years of apex predator/coyote rival decline (wolves, cats, bears etc), in conjunction with a lack of human predation through what I assume is diminished fur trapping (my pop, in a non-rural area, made good scratch running trap lines for coyotes, mink, and muskrat til the early 80s), has allowed this explosion in growth.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I think there is a sharp decline in young hunters. When I was young, me and all my friends hunted raccoon and coyote for gas money, then beer money, then diaper money. I made a couple thousand dollars a year hunting. It was a lot of work though, and long nights. I just don't think the younger generations hunt like the older generations did.


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

David Winners said:


> I think there is a sharp decline in young hunters. When I was young, me and all my friends hunted raccoon and coyote for gas money, then beer money, then diaper money. I made a couple thousand dollars a year hunting. It was a lot of work though, and long nights. I just don't think the younger generations hunt like the older generations did.


for sure, my pop ran trap lines up until my mom made him get a "job" when i was born in 85. He was then too busy working to have me trapping or hunting with dogs etc


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> I think there is a sharp decline in young hunters. When I was young, me and all my friends hunted raccoon and coyote for gas money, then beer money, then diaper money. I made a couple thousand dollars a year hunting. It was a lot of work though, and long nights. I just don't think the younger generations hunt like the older generations did.


Good theory.
I don't hunt but I fish and all three of my kids love to fish.
I have a good buddy who likes to hunt and 2 of his four kids are avid hunters.

Small sample size alert: It greatly depends on the parents but I feel there are less youth persuing outdoor activities period, these days.

In the cities, coyotes have no real natural predators left. Like raccoons, they have proven to be hugely adaptable to ravines, under porches smaller wooded areas and have generally lost a fear of humans who are more likely to try and snap a cell phone pic than run them off.


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## RosiesPaw (8 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> Good theory.
> I don't hunt but I fish and all three of my kids love to fish.
> I have a good buddy who likes to hunt and 2 of his four kids are avid hunters.
> 
> ...


i work with kids on the edge of one of the more rural parts of california. it's not just youth per say, but many people 45 and under who are hooked on the video games/screens, etc in my experience.

i share a space with a speech language pathologist who allows kids (ages 6-12) to draw whatever they want and then hangs it on the wall. more than 3/4 are of tv or video game characters.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Still work in greater Cincinnati, but moved about 30 miles into Northern Kentucky. White tail deer hunting still big there. In my county, 1600+ deer taken through first couple weeks of modern gun season. I think that also includes archery, which starts first. But in the bigger cities, I'd agree, very few young kids hunt. A fair minority go to places like REI, and get camping/hiking gear. 
But yeah, I'd say if you compared Black Friday at REI to Best Buy or Walmart, no doubt the TVS and game consoles would be selling faster than the tents and camp stoves.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I saw a weird track this in the snow morning coming out of the ravine, HUGE bird track as big as my hand, followed it for 20 yards on the ground so I doubt Bald Eagle or Owl, 

Too fat and not spread wide enough for a turkey, also only one with would be strange for wild turkey. They look more like 3 fat fingers facing forward (not spread) and with a heel to the "hand".
I was thinking Bald Eagle, now leaning towards Great Horned Owl but the size was impressive and moving along the ground has me baffled


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> I saw a weird track this in the snow morning coming out of the ravine, HUGE bird track as big as my hand, followed it for 20 yards on the ground so I doubt Bald Eagle or Owl,
> 
> Too fat and not spread wide enough for a turkey, also only one with would be strange for wild turkey. They look more like 3 fat fingers facing forward (not spread) and with a heel to the "hand".
> I was thinking Bald Eagle, now leaning towards Great Horned Owl but the size was impressive and moving along the ground has me baffled


Canadian geese? Goose?


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## NadDog24 (May 14, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I saw a weird track this in the snow morning coming out of the ravine, HUGE bird track as big as my hand, followed it for 20 yards on the ground so I doubt Bald Eagle or Owl,
> 
> Too fat and not spread wide enough for a turkey, also only one with would be strange for wild turkey. They look more like 3 fat fingers facing forward (not spread) and with a heel to the "hand".
> I was thinking Bald Eagle, now leaning towards Great Horned Owl but the size was impressive and moving along the ground has me baffled


Heron?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> Canadian geese? Goose?


Nope, no webbing. 
I'll upload a pic


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

NadDog24 said:


> Heron?


The tracks are straight forward fingers not like bird that are spread out more like a peace symbol. And herons are gone from around here weeks ago and would never be walking out from the woods.

This is a heron


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## Kevlar55 (Dec 30, 2011)

Turkey.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Fingers are too straight forward to heron, turkey or turkey vulture. This is the track


















This is turkey, much smaller and splayed









Turkey vulture










Great Horned Owl 









Great Blue Heron


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I've also seen some beautiful little foxes around recently, nice red fur and black legs, very healthy.
This little guy is decidedly not that, saw him on a busy road, wandering across, indecisive, confused. It was a rainy messy day so he looked miserable enough but you could see from his tail, he was suffering from mange. Poor little guy stopped at the side of the road to drink from a puddle, I was able to roll the window down not 10 feet from him and take pictures.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Hobitsee Wildlife Rescue is probably closer to you than the one in Toronto (I think they’re in Haldimand County) but you might be able to get in touch and see if they can help that poor fox.


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

WNGD said:


> Fingers are too straight forward to heron, turkey or turkey vulture. This is the track
> View attachment 594859
> 
> 
> ...


Crane? Or one of the above with a growth on its foot.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Fingers are too straight forward to heron, turkey or turkey vulture. This is the track
> View attachment 594859
> 
> 
> ...


Only thing I can think of is the mix precipitation and melt distorted the tracks?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Carter Smith said:


> Only thing I can think of is the mix precipitation and melt distorted the tracks?


That's likely but it had to do the same to 20 tracks as they were all the same. And again, it's more than the big "heel" it's all the digits pointing straight forward, not splayed, no webbing.

I'm pretty sure it's Mike from Monster's Inc


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Looks like an eagle to me


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> Looks like an eagle to me


Bald Eagles are extremely rare around here but possible. Same problem though is the digits aren't quite north south enough, they're splayed. 








More like a peace sign


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

@WNGD do you have the iNaturalist app? You could upload the photos of the prints and knowledgeable scientists can ID for you. I use this app a ton for birdwatching, it’s great.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Zeppy said:


> @WNGD do you have the iNaturalist app? You could upload the photos of the prints and knowledgeable scientists can ID for you. I use this app a ton for birdwatching, it’s great.


iNaturalist is such a neat app, had to use it in my art history class. It's incredible to see what more observant people have seen, I never would have guessed.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Zeppy said:


> @WNGD do you have the iNaturalist app? You could upload the photos of the prints and knowledgeable scientists can ID for you. I use this app a ton for birdwatching, it’s great.


No I have never heard of it. My daughter posted the pic on facebook and there are tons of guesses, but ones we've all considered. One person said they sent it on to a family member who's an expert at some university. It's still a bit of a mystery but I'll keep an eye out for fresh prints in any snow we get in case it's still around.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Golden Eagle maybe??


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Raven?


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

dogma13 said:


> Raven?
> View attachment 594890


Looks close but are they 6" long? 
I looked at some muskrat prints online that look close but others that don't even look similar


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Honey Maid said:


> Golden Eagle maybe??


I don't think we have Golden Eagles around here. Bald Eagles really rarely


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## Zeppy (Aug 1, 2021)

Interestingly, I saw an immature bald eagle flying toward the lake in my town this afternoon! Very excited. I have seen eagles in my town at this time of year consistently the last few years. Happy to know this is a stopping place for them before going further south for the winter.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

WNGD said:


> Looks close but are they 6" long?
> I looked at some muskrat prints online that look close but others that don't even look similar


I don't know how long raven toes are🤷‍♀️


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## SamKormak (24 d ago)

RosiesPaw said:


> the prevalence of these smaller predators blows my mind. we've got ample grey fox in the neighborhoods around my place. no coyotes though.
> 
> I mean aside human population expansion along with pets, livestock, and food waste, I'm not sure what the reason for such rapid growth is. I'm no biologist, but I'm wondering if the 100-200 years of apex predator/coyote rival decline (wolves, cats, bears etc), in conjunction with a lack of human predation through what I assume is diminished fur trapping (my pop, in a non-rural area, made good scratch running trap lines for coyotes, mink, and muskrat til the early 80s), has allowed this explosion in growth.
> 
> ...


Yeah, a lot less predators on top of extra food from dumps/trash/less game hunted by other predators I guess. Yotes and racoons are going absolutely rampant around here(TX).


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## Rosebud99 (9 mo ago)

WNGD said:


> I saw a weird track this in the snow morning coming out of the ravine, HUGE bird track as big as my hand, followed it for 20 yards on the ground so I doubt Bald Eagle or Owl,
> 
> Too fat and not spread wide enough for a turkey, also only one with would be strange for wild turkey. They look more like 3 fat fingers facing forward (not spread) and with a heel to the "hand".
> I was thinking Bald Eagle, now leaning towards Great Horned Owl but the size was impressive and moving along the ground has me baffled











A Beginner's Guide to Reading Bird Tracks in Snow


Telltale toes are just one of many clues.




www.audubon.org


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