# Strong/excitable dog, weak owner mismatches



## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Am I the only one? How did you make it work? How much help did you recieve? How great was the discrepancy between your soft personality and your powerful, dominant, excitable dog? Did you rehome the dog? Or, did you make it through to function as a team, with mentoring? Did maturity in the dog make any difference? Did you essentially have to have a personality transplant, not just change your habits? Did anyone tell you blatantly that you need a different (gentler, calmer) dog? I am interested to hear what anyone who has gone through such a huge discrepancy has to say about what brought success.

Grimm and I are basicly a mismatch. Yes, really. I adore him. I have bent myself into a pretzel to try to give him what he needs, even managing to move from one subsidized apartment to another so that he could have free running room in nature. (and he isn't even a high energy dog either, 10- 15 mins running after balls per day is all he needs to settle in the home)

I have managed to change my projected energy/power enough to be able to go from a prong collar to a simple, soft cloth flat collar with Grimm. That took deep introspection, and learning to be a better leader.

However, Grimm is an _extremely_ _excitable_ young dog. Moreso than most. He doesn't need an increase in excersise. He responds to very strong, calm leadership. I do the best that I can. It may simply not be enough. In situations where much is changing and we are in a new place, he may become hysterical and put me in danger. Again, he responds well when someone has very strong calm leadership. Being calm is impossible when 95 lbs of powerful GSD wants to explode with you weakly clinging to the lead.

Have we had any mentoring at all? NONE. My first trainer became pregnant and canceled when Grimm was a puppy. My next trainer started with us, but her hubby moved them across country. Then I moved to Germany to marry... and my husband got cancer. Hubby had his lung taken out. Then chemotherapy. Then later a gallbladder surgery-- that made him in a coma, and he passed away 2 months ago. Grimm is 2, but his lines mature very late. (not until age 3.5 do they get their "adult brains") So no, we have had no help, no mentoring to guide us with a club. 

I will consider repeating the send-away training that helped so much last year. Last summer, dozens of offlead dogs charged us in my old neighborhood, un-doing the work the trainer had put into both Grimm and me. (yes, he worked with me as well as Grimm, after the send-away) Training was un-done, as Grimm grew to anticipate sudden doggy parties every time he saw a dog. The good news-- Grimm isn't aggressive or fearful, just has a habit that needs again to be broken, of anticipating a party. It's a dangerous habit for me, because if he is allowed to lock on visually, he may boil over with frustrated impatience... I get dragged behind the explosion as he dashes to interact with the other dog.

Anyway... I am trying to see how anyone else managed with a dog that was "too much dog for them." Did you manage to project a stronger energy? Did a mentor really help you? Did you rehome the dog? Did maturity help? TTouch, medication, homeopathy?

Note: I may _try_ to join a club AFTER the send-away with follow-up. *I cannot drive, so joining a club is very highly unlikely.* And the type of clubs here are not easy to choose from: positive-only/no corrections clicker pet trainers who drive a pushy, dominant dog like Grimm into staging a coup, or Schutzhund clubs where the dogs achieve wonders on the field, but where having a dog without normal-doggy-manners can be a mark of pride. (I calls it like I sees it. Many well-behaved SchH dogs who walk nicely on a leash... but just as many who are strutted out straining against the lead, jumping on everyone) Finding a trainer who understands what I am trying to do, and yet isn't afraid of corrections for a dog who needs them, will be a challenge. Again.. I live in the country and cannot drive.

How did you get things to where you both were functioning as a team? What made a difference, what brought success?


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## bethd (May 23, 2006)

Since I only outweigh Max by 20 lbs, I use the e-collar (along with training for the e-collar). Max is much stronger than I am and we went to a class where we learned to use the e-collar (pm me if you want more info). The most wonderful thing in the world!! I have had gsds for 20 yrs but only used the e-collar on Max and the e-collar is amazing. I have control without a tug of war.

And Max was one of those whose puppy brains didn't disappear until 3.5 yrs old. LOL


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Patti,

I would offer to swap and trade you 58 pound Rafi but I don't think either of us could stand to be parted from our crazy, sweet, happy boys.









If you ever did end up near me though I'd be happy to handle him for you in training. 

And I want to say that I think you are Grimm are a great team and you have done a wonderful job with him!


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## lauramichelle (Mar 11, 2009)

I dont know how to reply on the training issue, but if it were me....I would have to look at what is best for me, and what is best of the dog.

If you are not happy with the dog relationship, and you dont have a way to get professional help....then I would look into rehoming to a good home. I think it'd be better for both of you. Because if you cant control him well enough, he could get too unruly and accidently hurt someone...or you. 

I had to rehome my horse for similar reasons. I loved him dearly...but I didnt have the money for trainers, and he was just too much horse for my skill level. So I rehomed him to a more advanced rider who was going to give him a job and make him her show horse.....and I bet he is much happier doing that than standing in my pasture all day. He scared me riding a few times....and instead of me getting more fearful and frustrated with him....I did what was best for him and found him a new owner who could really make him the best horse he could be.

I'm not saying to definately rehome your dog.....but know you are not the only person that has had to rehome an animal because of mismatched personalities or lack of skills.


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## VectorSketcher (Jul 20, 2008)

Oh Pattie, I have read many of your posts and felt your frustrations with Mr. Grimm, and I just wanted to let you know that I think you have been doing a wonderful job with your beautiful boy, you have been through alot lately and that has to have impacted on you both. So do not discredit yourself, not that you are, but keep your chin up, as Ruth has already told you, I think you and Grimm are wonderful team! I still think that with maturity Grimm will settle alot for you, I went through a similiar experience with my boy Riddick, he was very explosive when he saw other dogs and kids, not in an aggressive manner but in an excitable play time manner, Riddick weighed 115lbs at 1yrs, a very big boy, and it was almost impossible to control him at times. 

I am a very mellow, but very quiet individual, so me trying to shout commands at him was like hearing a mouse squeak at a lion, however, I did notice that when he was with my husband he was a different dog. It took many moons to be able to handle Riddick around other dogs and kids, I practiced everyday with him, doing exactly as you have been with doing with Grimm, feeling as if I was not enough owner for such a powerful dog, then finally Riddick hit 2yrs, and he mellowed a bit, stopped lunging at other dogs, I do not know if it was just me mustering through and being a steady constant leader always working with him or if was him just getting older, but Riddick will be 4 this month and he has turned into such a well mannered dog, I get told over and over how nice and behaved he is, and at 120lbs his sheer size alone scares many, but once he charms them with his manners they fall in love. SO I just want to let you know to keep it up, it is very time consuming and tedious at times, but you are doing exactly what I did with my overbearing boy and it does pay off!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Hey Patti. 

You know that I think that you and Grimm may not be the best match - - BUT - - you have come along so far and so well with him I think if you can continue to make progress with him, even in the small amounts you guys will make a great team. First Grimm adores you, next I don't know if you would be up for starting a puppy from scratch right now. I know that you are probably feeling that you aren't up to the task because of all that has happened, but since you are here posting the question I think you are on the mend and looking at the future.

Just wondering if the lady who took Grimm when you went with the InLaws would be able to help you? It sounded like she was fairly close to you.

I know you were making such great progress on seeing other dogs and Grimm looking for his toy instead of spazing out to go play. Patti there are no guarantee's that if you find a different home for Grimm and get a different dog that he/she would be half the dog that Grimm is. The way he understands you and respects you, yea every now and then the wild child wants to pop out, but I know you were making progress on that.

Val


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## JazzyGirl (May 25, 2009)

After Comet was killed back in January, my daughter was desperate to get a new dog. So, we had gone to the ASPCA in Baltimore and adopted what we were told was a black lab mix, but if he was lab, he was also a Black shepherd (at least I think so)








This was his 1st day with us.








This was on his last day with us (5 weeks later)


He was afraid of my Son (never showed signs of aggression) and then began to develop separation anxiety and then started showing other fear behaviors directed at my husband. We were working with a trainer but his behaviors kept escalating that I felt uncomfortable with him in my home. I was afraid he would feel cornered and then hurt my son (or someone else) out of fear. 

I had fallen deeply in love with him and really wanted in my heart to fix him, but I was not equipped and so re-homed him. While I do regret the way that worked out, I know in my heart I did the right thing for him and our family.

I hope you are able to come to peace with whatever decision you make.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

No no no.

You're going through a hard time right now. Grimmi's behavior is not going to be perfect. Some of my Morgan's worse behavior came out when I went through some times. 

Don't even think about giving up on him now. You will always regret it if you do.

He's come a long way from where he was last summer. Yeah he has a ways to go but when you get back home to Mass, there's more resources available to you. PM me...


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Michelle, what a wonderful post.. thank you! I am so hoping that maturity makes a difference for Grimm. His lines mature so late, and he is very childish at his age. Not just silly, but.. hard to explain. He is collossal in size, and yet everyone ignores him.. he just has an immature vibe still. I am hoping and praying that maturity will help him calm some, as it did for Riddick, along with your dedication to working with Riddick.

Val, I so appreciate your honesty and encouragement. If I got another dog, it would be a middle-aged adult with training, who works well for a woman handler.

That said, I am hoping that my re-awakening from months of dense grief-fog will help me gain better leadership over him, and that the send-away re-do will help us both. Help Grimm by breaking what is a habit, (although he is better than he was) and help me to handle him better (the send-away comes with private & group follow-up to help me work better with Grimm). 

He is such a lovey dog. I want to do what is best for both of us. I am hoping that the send-away with follow-up will make the kind of difference it did last year. The trainer does everything with a very loose lead, corrects firmly when needed, but totally non-emotional. After breaking the habit, he was excellent about molding me into someone who did better with Grimm.

I am hoping Grimm's basic nature is not too excitable for me to manage him. We have big changes coming in our lives when I will move back to the states. I need to be able to control him, be safe, and for us to function well as a team.

Right now, I am just waking up from months of deep depression where I have ignored him. He is mopey, slightly disconnected.... but still eager when I get a tuggy or rope or ball, and is snuggly. I am hoping we can both move towards improvement. I am now no longer dragging aimlessly on walks, but leading Grimm with intention, being a leader again on walks. Hopefully, each imrpovement I make coming out of this depression will help some. I hope it will all be enough, with the send-away, and my plugging in to the follow-up help.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Jenn.. you are wonderful.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

Patti,

I don't think you need to rehome Grimm. 

You need to recapture your confidence in yourself. I know you have worked extensively to get where you are with Grimm. I don't have the problem of being weakly clinging to a leash as I'm pretty strong, but I DO have a very excitable 85# of unadulterated love on 4 legs. When Phoenix sees another dog, he see a potential new best friend. I have worked extensively on his focus on me during our walks. When we see another dog approach, I have him stop, face me and focus on me. What did that originally entail...his love of balls. I carried his favorite ball (chuck-it ultra ball) around w/ me so that when he saw another dog, I'd have him sit and brought out the ball and have him focus first on it and then on me...he had to give me eye contact b/f he'd get the ball. I also trained him to GIVE me the ball back upon my request. We worked on that in the living room every night...(It first took the use of two balls....)

I also found that while I'm not a huge fan of a prong collar, I had to use it to keep his focus. Of course, it has to be properly placed and used...which I'm sure you've been trained on that by your previous send away trainer. I found that Phoenix behaved differently and had better focus when on the prong than on his flat collar. I worked with him for over a year on this. I still find that once in a while if I've become slack, Phoenix will revert to his "wild child" ways. It's constant vigillence on my part. But soooo worth it!

You know it will take lots of work...and I for one, know you can do it. You have it within you. I'm not saying it's going to be easy...nothing worth something ever is....but I think you can do it. If you think send away training is what YOU need, then do it... It will not hurt.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

strong/excitable dog, weak owner mismatch; i think weak owner
is the problem. did you get Grimm when he was a puppy? did you socialize and train everyday? Grimm is only 2 years. why don't you set up a training regiment? work on it everyday. do short sessions several times a day. be consistant. give it some time.

after an honest effort of working with Grimm if you think Grimm is to much for you rehome him. i know that's easier said than done
but you want the best for Grimm. if i had to rehome my dog because he was to much for me i would find him a good home
and start looking for another puppy. i would start all over again.

good luck in whatever you decide. you know what's best for you
and Grimm.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Diana, thank you for the guidance. Refocusing with toys has helped some in the past. I did get some good results from bringing his yellow hedgehog on walks, tossing it when he focused on me when he saw another dog. the excitement/tension was sometimes still there, though.. a longstanding habit of anticipation/expectation. 

I appreciate all the input and ideas. I am weighing each perspective. Thank you.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

Patti, 

You need Grimm and he needs you. You lost your husband and he lost his father. Its very hard for both of you. Please don't give up on him. Grimm has come a long way.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Patti I so agree with Jenn 
NO NO NO

when you get back to the states there are so many other resources
I can call my trainer and see if he can help or knows of someone

Do you honestly think Brady listens to me all the time **** no
you need Grimm just as much as he needs you


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Patti, you mentioned the following:

"He is such a lovey dog. I want to do what is best for both of us. I am hoping that the send-away with follow-up will make the kind of difference it did last year. The trainer does everything with a very loose lead, corrects firmly when needed, but totally non-emotional. After breaking the habit, he was excellent about molding me into someone who did better with Grimm."

The above sounds like a trainer I have worked with who is very good. However, I do have concerns about this send away stuff. It might be much better if you and the trainer could work together with Grimm.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I've read your posts before and Grimm sounds a lot like Chrono. They even make all the same noises! I'm 115 pounds, and Chrono is 110 pounds. I'm a very shy, submissive person. Chrono is extremely excitable, and extremely clumsy and unaware of his body. Everyone comments on how he is a giant puppy. To be honest, his personality and energy level aren't that much different from when he was 4 months old, but his obedience and self control are so much better. I knew that getting a dog, especially a german shepherd, would really change my life. I didn't think I've have to _completely_ throw away my old life and lifestyle just to manage this dog.

He's my first dog, but I've had many dogs in my life from small to large. I was even a manager in a petstore. He is still the most 'dog' out of every dog I've met. I don't really know what a high-energy dog is, but he settles nicely, it's just that no matter how many hours of exercise he's gotten, he always has enough that when anyone enters the room he has to get up and run around them excitedly.

I've only changed my personality with Chrono. He gets 'tough love'. I don't let him get away with anything, and it's so frustrating because he's _constantly_ testing me. To be honest, I'm a hardass with him. I wanted a serious dog and I got a complete goofball that has no interest in pleasing me. I use a combination of treats, ball reward, prong collar and remote collar. This has helped to tame him considerably, but he's still a rammy puppy with complete disregard for personal space. 

Chrono is incredibly strong. We discovered the hard way that he knew how to open the gates at my boyfriend's house. When I was picking him up from the dog pound he was so excited to get out of the place he dragged me to the ground and across the floor. Now with the pinch collar I can manage his strength quite well.

I'm not fond of all this rehoming stuff people are saying. I feel like people yell 'REHOME' when there's the slightest problem, and then have no problem discussing the overflow of homeless pets and their terrible owners. There are too many dogs who _really_ need homes. Grimm is perfectly loved and perfectly owned, he does not need to be rehomed. Dog training isn't a walk in the park, it's difficult especially with a dog like that, but it's do-able without having to rehome. If a send-away worked last time and he isn't progressing right now, then try it again. It won't hurt to try (well it might hurt your wallet a little....). Grimm may never reach his full potential with you, but there's very few people in this world that have the devotion, patience, willingness and love that you do to help him. I'm sure he is best and happiest in your hands.

I've had thoughts about rehoming Chrono as well, but he's my kid. I decided to get him and he's my responsibility. For better or for worse, he's mine until taking care of him becomes a physical impossibility, not just a difficult endeavor.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Consistency. 

(can I actually do a one word answer-it hurts...but yes...no...yes...I am going to try!)

Okay. I can't. 

But that is the bottom line. When I was consistent, all went well, when I lagged or slipped, he filled the leadership void. 

I tend to be an "eh" person. Eh, close enough. Eh, I'm not going to worry about it. Eh, go ahead, you can go first. I had to find ways to allow the eh in our relationship, while always being in charge for the important things.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> I get dragged behind the explosion as he dashes to interact with the other dog.


If Grimm were simply a pet, I'd say sure, keep going. But he's your service dog. Given his TASKS, he is supposed to keep you SAFE. Given what you've said here and elsewhere, I've been worried for a long time (long before Ulrich became ill) that Grimm is not doing that. 

I know that what I'm saying is hard to hear. I know it will make some members angry. But I've been worried about you for quite a while Patti, in connection with Grimm's training. He isn't simply a pet that you can leave at home while you go about your errands. It's different. 

Dogs wash out of service dog training in agencies. Self trained dogs wash out at a higher rate. I know how hard it is to self train a service dog, and I have a *team* of trainers to work with me. If Jenn is right, that you will have a lot of resources available to you once you return to the States, then she is also right that you will never forgive yourself for giving up on Grimm now.

But please take whatever precautions you possibly can. Grimm is very strong. I know he would never intentionally do anything to harm you. But accidents happen, and well, I'll just repeat myself one more time. I worry about you.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

If I am not mistaken it has been quite a while since Grimm acted up and drug Patti any where. If she and Grimm hadn't progressed to the point that they are I would say he doesn't have what it takes to settle down. But given the training has mostly been done by Patti with very little training support I don't think it is time yet to make a determination that she needs to rehome Grimm. They have both been through a lot in the last year and I think for a while Patti wasn't up to being the strong leader she had been, I also don't see anywhere in Patti's post that Grimm has exploited the situation. So that shows he does respect her, they just have some more work to do to get on track.

Val


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Patti, 

I do not think you should re-home Grimm at this time as long as he is not risking your personal safety. I think he needs his Patti Warrior Princess to return to him. Another out of the box idea.... are there any *safe* dogs that you would be able to set up a "play date" with out in the woods? If he has a chance to play with another dog (or couple of dogs) it might take way a good portion of his urge to play with EVERY dog he sees. *IF* this scenario could be set up I would start from the very beginning that he has to WORK for the opportunity to play with the other dog. For example the end result would be: you and the other dog owner met in town, Grimm would have to restrain himself until you got to the predesignated play area. Then he would have to do some OB while the OTHER dog was let loose to run and play. Then you reward Grimm with tug or whatever and then the bonus reward is t be released to "go play" with the other dog. Granted you would need to do this with baby steps like with anything else. 

I guess this all to say that if he occasionally has the release of being able to play with other dogs it would make them less appealing in every day life. I also know with you being so new to the area that you live in that this might be harder to pull off but perhaps you could mention it to the send away trainer if you go that route or possibly the place where you recently boarded him?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Great suggestion, Ruq. Back home in Southern New England, Grimmi has a whole pack of GSDs waiting to be his friends. Some well trained mature adults, some juvenile deliquents and The Queen.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANConsistency.
> 
> (can I actually do a one word answer-it hurts...but yes...no...yes...I am going to try!)
> 
> ...


ALL of this is EXACTLY what I was thinking as I've been reading this thread.

The consistency part is self-explanatory. Patti I don't know the "rules" in Germany, can you use an e-collar? I'm guessing not, but shoot if you could would you consider it? I feel like with dogs that are very easily aroused, it becomes exponentially more important to be accurate with the timing, like down to the half-second. I have this problem with my Coke, but luckily lacking the drive and size of Grimm. 

Second, Jean did a good job if describing how I feel about training. What are your ultimate goals for Grimm? Do you want him to be social with other dogs? I've had to sit back and think this through with all three of my dogs lately. Nikon is very, very leash reactive towards other dogs. Honestly at this point I'm just not doing much about it. Yeah I'd love for all my dogs to be able to ignore other dogs, or play with them when appropriate, but the more I think about it the more I realize that Coke and Kenya came to me already predisposed to be more social and less rude towards other dogs. I socialized the heck out of Nikon and I'm sure somewhere *I* fell short but you know what, as long as he interacts appropriately within his pack, I guess I don't really care if we can't play with any other dog on the street. My goals for him were never to be a therapy dog, to go to the dog park each week, to run free with a bunch of doggy friends. So like Jean says, the leash reactivity has become one of those "eh" things for me. Don't get me wrong there is certain behavior I simply do not allow (and will either remove my dog or never expose him in the first place) and when we are working _we are working_. I will tell you I have spent much MORE time developing his ball drive as something to motivate and focus him than I have on ALL of his obedience and manners combined. So I always have something I can literally whip out if all else fails and we are surprised by a rude dog or whatever.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Actually, Grimm does his Service Dog tasks very well. And unexpected bonus is, when I have him do these tasks in public, he suddenly becomes insufferably smug-- and calmer. (As if no one but HIM, and HIM ALONE, could accomplish this critical task upon which the fate of the entire universe rests.) His tasks are directed retrieve (he came with retrieving built-in at age 9 weeks), and a hold-and-carry while in heel, for when my hands won't close. This is his FAVORITE task, carrying anything beside me morphs him into Mr. Smug. I just haven't worked with him in over 3 months... I have been mentally checked-out. (illness and death of my beloved husband) I'm starting to return now, a bit at a time. (I ordered Karen Prayor I-Click clickers yesterday)

I so appreciate all the insights and ideas. 

The negative: Grimm is an easily aroused dog.

The positive: Grimm becomes fulfilled, calmer, more focused when give a job to do. (carry my gloves on the way home from a walk) When they said GSDs "need a job," I thought that meant that they were hyper otherwise. Grimm is only a medium-energy dog, needing less running than many GSDs on this forum. I guess "needs a job" is about the ability to mentally settle, too?

What helps some with the hair-trigger aspect of easily aroused dogs? Maturity, Grimm's breeder suggests, will make a difference. Grimm also doesn't yet know that he CAN control himself in distracting/exciting situations. We haven't been mentored the way many here have. Not yet. I am dedicated to finding training support, somehow, for us. Grimm isn't finished developing yet. Me neither. I can improve, too.

Training help, where a trainer will help me require MORE of Grimm, and help me (at first) enforce it, may make a big difference in his furry little mindset. He doesn't yet know that he CAN control himself in some situations. A pattern could be set that he could learn better selfcontrol is an option.

Young dog, tendency to be reactive, zero aggression, loves everyone, loves being important with a task to do. I think we can work with that, if I can find good help.

The lady I boarded Grimm with is not an option. For all the great Schutzhund enthusiasts out there who have well-mannered dogs, this lady is of the variety who's ego skyrockets as her dog drags her straining on the lead, jumps wildly on people, lunges at dogs, acts out of control. She encourages Grimm to behave this way too. The idea of enforcing manners to her is a foreign one. For me, Grimm does not take ONE STEP forwards, until he is in a calm, submissive state. She un-does everything I have ever done with him, allowing and encouraging the worst behaviors. (she is somehow impressed with them)

I aknowledge these things: 

1.Grimm has a nature that makes him easily excited. I will need to find ways to somehow ease that tendency, either through more training, requiring more of him, giving him tasks, TTouch, homeopathy, Bach flower, waiting for maturity to happen, and still more training/working with him.

2. I am just waking up from 3 months of being depressed. Grimm DID drag me on Monday, the first time in a year. A man visited who drives Grimm insane with his crazy energy, and the man tried to walk with us out to his car, and got Grimm going nuts along the way, befopre I could do anything. No, nobody got hurt. But, I was not in control when he broke away, or he wouldn't have. After 3 months of deep depression, Grimm has had no leader. I am coming out of the depression slowly now, and am starting to give Grimm more of the rules, boundaries and limitations that will help restore a better dynamic between us, I think.

Any and all tips on helping calm that hair-trigger tendency would be encouraging!


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thinking about what I have done that has been helpful:

Grimm no longer freaks excitedly before walks, he sits calmly, lets me step through the door, and waits to be called through. This took time, and refusing to budge until he was calm and quiet.

Grimm now walks at heel by my side to his feeding place as I carry his bowl. Calmly? Not really. Obediently, and mostly quietly now. In the past, He screamed, danced, could not WAIT for his food. Now, we do not take one step with me carrying the bowl until he is at least in heel and quiet. He yammers? I stop, look away, wait. Quiet? We start walking again towards his feeding place. This took months, but there is no more concert and circus and wild dance with feeding.

But general excitability, hair-trigger, not sure how to help that in general. The drawback with online articles about reactive dogs is, they are geared towards fearful dogs, rather than dogs who simply get easily aroused. Many of the same methods work, but many also don't, and can sometimes escalate problems when the dog is a bit dominant and craving boundaries to help him settle. Think it's a balance. I like clicking for calm behavior. Just have to be careful regarding use of food with a dog like this, and remember occasional corrections _when needed_, actually do help him feel settled.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I wish I could get Brady to let me walk through the door before walks he is a mental case!

hum good to know sometimes B reacts to dogs and not to others


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Patti,

Go back to the prong collar. For now it will give you the physical control you need.

When I went through chemo my pack took liberties they wouldn't have normally have been allowed to take. I was either physically or mentally unable to deal with the situation so I just let them do what they wanted.

When my strength and brain were back to normal it took awhile for the pack to 'straighten up and fly right'. I had to take back control and reestablish myself as the authority figure and they had to realize that No meant NO (before No had meant Well, alright ... I don't care).

Don't be so hard on yourself. You have been through a life changing event.

If and when you get back to the States, I like the idea of getting Grimm together with a bunch of dogs to play. Maybe if he got to play more with dogs he wouldn't be SO excited ever time he saw a dog.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Patti, reading you recent posts I think you have some up with some of your own answers you just didn't realize it.

Grimm behaves like a Champ when he is doing a task. Then it is more tasks for him, he wants to be able to help you and when there is nothing he goes about pleasing Grimm. So you have to come up with more things even if they aren't necessary to keep Grimm focused on task at hand.

Bring back the tools you need to give Grimm the wake up call as Lauri said. The pinch collar or your throw chains and the Patti Alpha Boombing Voice. Tell him yep you had a vacation son, but now I am BACK.

My Cheyenne is a wonderful dog, but needs structure, you give that wonderful bitch and inch and she is taking a mile and smiling at you the whole time. But she can be happy and controlled under a firm calm hand. So it isn't like I am breaking her spirit, just keeping her contained within herself and the rules.

Honestly I think Grimm is starting to learn when he is working and when he isn't. Now you just have to give him more things to keep him working more.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I sort of have to be careful that the prong doesn't ramp him up more, since my corrections tend to be annoying rather than powerful.







But, i do have the prong in the closet somewhere. But Lauri, yes, he is one of the few reactive dogs who really respond well to knowing who is boss.

I should begin to start asking more of him again. That does set up a pattern of him anticipating us being a team, of anticipating him working for me, in general.

C'monnnn.. maturity. I am hoping maturity will also add to his ability to calm himself in exciting situations, but, sometimes it seems like he is just physically booby-trapped to respond abruptly. I am hoping some real mentoring and training will help, because we haven't had a real chance yet.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Hi patti,
Did you get my PM this morning?


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thank you Suzi, responded to it just now!


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## gmcenroe (Oct 23, 2007)

Patti,
I have probably read all of your posts here and I think you are doing everything in your power to work with Grimm and I think you can probably agree that you have made tremendous progress. With what you have been through in the past months it is understandable that Grimm might slip back a little into his old habits. I would keep working with him. Sending him to a trainer is helpful but even better is if you can work with a trainer so you can learn more about how to become a better leader and trainer. 

In my own experience I also have a pretty excitable and at times leash reactive GSD Juli. I certainly made some mistakes with her and let her get away with things that I probably should have corrected at an early age. She is smart but at times either stubborn or wants to test her position in the pack. By working with a trainer I am learning how to be a better leader, how to read dog behavior, how to recognize the onset of behavior problem early enough to nip it in the bud so to speak. Also she 16 months old so she is maturing even though she can revert to puppy nonsense at times if I let her, or if she is beyond my reach for correction. 

Your point about excitability vs. fearful dogs is a good thing. Also the general public sees an excited GSD and sometimes misinterprets excited bahavior as aggressive behavior depending on how your dog expresses excitement. 

Also I have learned that when necessary a strong correction is worth far more than 50 nagging small ineffective corrections, and you can gain your dogs respect at the same time. That being said I am also still a big believer in positive motivational training. 

Setting up a training regimen is a good idea. For the last couple of months I have been training in the morning and after work every day. Typically 30-45 minutes each session depending on whether we are reviewing or working on new tasks. For me it is not work, I love doing it and can see that Juli enjoys it as well. I think you feel the same way about Grimm.

So bottom line to me is I think you should keep working with Grimm since you love him and if you look back you can see the progress you have already made and can look forward to your future goals and plans.

Best wishes to you and Grimm! 

Glenn


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Thanks for the input Glenn. I am reading each post and considering what to do. I don't know what to do. I am doing my very best, though.


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## TerriB (Apr 3, 2007)

I have experienced many of the same problems with Ruger that you have faced. I cried many times when he was a pup because I felt that I was failing with him. I did have one man (very experienced with working dogs but not as pets) tell me that Ruger was way too much dog for me (too strong, too drivey). I never wanted to see him again. He was a friend of a friend. I am stubborn and would never give a dog up unless there was no possible other option. I had taken Ruger through a puppy class and he was great. He completed that at 4 1/2 months. Then we took a beginner obedience class at 7 months. By the end of the class he was becoming a handful for me because of his size. I am 5'4" and only outweigh him by 25 pounds. The trainer suggested a pinch collar but would not allow them in class. We had a little lesson with the pinch collar and life began to change. Ruger just turned 3 in May and with consistant work he is managable. His biggest problem is with loose dogs. Even this is getting better. The greatest improvement was made when I watched a show about how dogs react to their handler's fears. I started paying close attention to my response to loose dogs. I was amazed how much more calm Ruger was when I didn't panic. I know I need to work with a trainer but I need to find someone who will allow a pinch collar. In the mean time we have come a long way on our own!
You have been through so much that I think you should continue working on all the great progress. I think you would miss your dog dearly if you re-homed him but I know everyone’s situation is different. You will do what you know is best for you and your dog and you will get support here whichever way you decide.
Best wishes to you!


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