# Have a 3 month old german shepherd male puppy & planning to get a female within 6 wks



## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

*Have a 3 month old german shepherd male puppy & planning to get a female within 6 wks*

We just got a male puppy at 9 weeks old, now he is about 12 weeks old and training is going ok. He is a bit of a handful but very sweet and calm temperament. Only problem we're having with him is that he pees in his crate at night and bites A LOT. I figure this is only because he is a puppy. However, my boyfriend and I are planning on getting a female for him to have a companion and she is currently 2 weeks old and ready to take home in about 6 weeks which would mean the male would be a little over 4 months old. My question is, is this a bad idea? We have always wanted a male and female but keep hearing different advice. 1) wait till he is older and better trained. and 2) get them both young because they will bond and not be as lonely when were not home.


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## Rosy831 (Feb 27, 2016)

it is a bad idea to have 2 pups at the same time


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It's a terrible idea.

1) Training 2 is so much harder
2) The puppy does not need a companion other than you
3) The puppies will bond with each other as a pack instead of with you
4) dogs sleep when we aren't home. Whether there are other dogs there are not.
5) You are getting the 2nd one for all hte wrong reasons.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Very bad idea. The dogs will bond with one another and not be bonded to you. That makes you less important and they are less willing to listen to you. The risk of having two unruly dogs increases. Unless you are willing to turn your lives upside down and devote huge amounts of time and money to training them separately and working with a very good trainer don't do it. Search this forum for more information. Train the dog you have to 3 years old and then get a second one. Anyone willing to sell you a dog when you have such a young puppy at home, is not a respected breeder. IMHO


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Agree with others.

*REALLY* BAAAAADDDD idea!:shocked:


Good luck with your current pup!
Moms


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Well in the past we had 2 chihuahas raised together. Obviously this is completely different considering that they are completely different breeds but it actually went well. They had each other's company and still loved us at the same time. Is it a bad idea just because of the breed?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

BAD idea .

Your pet doesn't need a pet.


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## lexiz (Apr 4, 2015)

Trust me, you have a lot more in store for you when your current puppy hits adolescence. Don't do it! Devote all of your time and energy into making your current puppy a great dog. Unless you're willing to spend double the amount on training classes, toys, good food, etc., then I wouldn't do it.


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## Strikker (Dec 2, 2015)

Ok, I just did this about 8 months ago +1 as we have a GSD that was 18 months at the time.
Difficult? Yes, training is hard, frustrating. House training two? Not a picnic.
Do they focus on each other more than you? Sometimes, and this is why training is so difficult and you have to make them focus on you.
Will you have times that you wonder "what the **** was I thinking?" Yes all the time.
You and BF will need to work together to train and keep each other sane and enforce your house rules.
Bad Idea? I would not give up having worked these three together (still working them) for anything. Just be prepared for the time it takes and the dedication.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Bad idea for so many reasons . 

Age differential really bad . 
An undisciplined 4 month old and a 8 week old playmate is pretty much sacrificing the younger dog to being mauled , overwhelmed , used as a living prey toy .

You haven't even begun to train the one you have.

Fix the "he bites a lot" first. Get clean house habits first . Get reliable obedience first.

Your two chihuahas were probably pretty happy to have the run of the household -- your GSD is going to need to get out -- be physical . You can't compare . Not in any way.

Plans for breeding ?


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

I've heard about separating them and never leaving them alone together when we're not paying attention. Also, we have another 6 weeks to properly train the one we have.. would that be enough time for potty training and biting? And yes we were planning on breeding as well.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

ah ha - I knew it . (And yes we were planning on breeding as well)

even worse idea . 

sorry -- you know next to nothing . 
Not the basics , not the fine points of the breed.

What you have is two appropriate biological units.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would rather do a 4 month old with a 2 month old, than an 8 or 10 month old with a 2 month old. 

Yes, it is a bad idea, if you aren't prepared for it. 

Not every dog is going to maul and treat the younger pup as a prey animal. You may have to step in, if the older pup becomes a bully. Doesn't always happen. It would be much more difficult for a 4 month old pup to actually injure a 2 month old than it would be for a 6-18 month old puppy to do so. 

Typically, people like to put 2-4 years between pups. Get that boy near perfect and then bring in a baby puppy, and the baby puppy can learn from the old hand. You will be much better at training by that point too. 

So far, I have placed 2 puppies in the same home one time, and the one was with them for about 2 months before I relented and let them have the second puppy. The dogs are 18 months old now, and they reintroduced an older female that was with an X, and a young male boxer that was given them by their brother since getting the second puppy. But they are doing fine. The couple have just one kid, and he is only there are some weekends. He is about 6, and he can get all four dogs to sit and stay at the same time. Otherwise the family is very active and the dogs get plenty of exercise, are all neutered (not my idea), and the owner works as a groomer, so is proficient handling a variety of dogs. 

It can work. It is not ideal. The possible benefits -- two dogs wearing each other out, are far outweighed by the probably negatives -- littermate-attachments, potty training two at once, double the training, double the exercise, double the vet bills, double the geriatric vet bills in a few years, and double the heart break when one follows closely on the other's heels.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

You might be able to potty train in six weeks but you will not even have begun training this dog. This is not a Chi... it is a dog that will have some body mass and a nice big mouth and when he jumps up on someone he can hurt them and you can be liable. If they develop bad behaviors, it is a much different experience than with Chis. As other said they are not comparable dogs. Are you ready to only do dog things every day and every weekend? You just seem to not get how much work this will take (and money and time) to do this right. I super duper encourage you to love on the current puppy and work to make him the best dog ever. As others said, you haven't entered the tuff times with an adolescent working breed. 

What are your plans for training? Classes, a one on one trainer? 
What are your plans for exercise? This are very smart dogs and if they don't get enough exercise or training they will cause trouble. 
Ready for veterinary care? Who pays for it?
What do you think a typical day will look like? Who walks them in the morning? Who trains whom? Who is responsible for more aerobic exercise? 

Good luck to you but it really sounds like you need to think about the reality of this rather than how cute puppies are.

Edit: Ack I did not see the breeding statement. I hope you stop acting impulsively and really get down to learning (really learning and investing in that learning) how to work with and treat dogs with integrity, expertise, and a thoughtfulness that is not reflected in this post.


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Well we have been devoting all of our free time towards him and honestly I love it. I am in love with our puppy and I would see them both as having 2 kids you need to be there for. 24/7. We pay for the vet (money is not an issue) And we were planning on doing obedience classes once week when he is a tad older. My boyfriend and I take turns walking him and we have a few very nice parks to take them to when they are older to get the exercise they need.

Either way I really appreciate everyone's advice. It is something we definitely have to think long and hard about. But I think in the end it would be worth it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

a case of puppy fever 
so why does breeding come into the equation.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

carmspack said:


> ah ha - I knew it . (And yes we were planning on breeding as well)
> 
> *even worse idea .*
> 
> ...



German shepherd Breeders, German shepherd Breeder

THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED *

THE FACTS:* It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully. 
*QUALITY:* SV registration is Not an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath! 
*COST:* German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability. *
SALES:* First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter. 
*JOY OF BIRTH:* If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelpling may be at 3 AM, or at the vet’s on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed. *
TIME:* Veteran German Shepherd breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight. 
*HUMANE RESPONSIBILLITIES:*It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs “with papers. “ The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? *Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it? *Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? *
CONCLUSIONS: Because of these facts, German Shepherd dog breeding is best left to the PROFESSIONAL BREEDER!*


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Absolutely horrible idea. You don't understand how much trouble you're getting into.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Please wait. I worry about the safety of a young puppy with an adolescent dog. My dogs are always 5 or more years apart because I want each dog to get all the training and attention needed. With a German Shepherd puppy, most don't settle down until 2-3 years. So at best, I would wait until the one you have now is 3. I just got a puppy last fall and my older dog has been helping me train him. I could not have done it without her.


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

Boy, are you in for a wild ride...

We lost our 10year old sheltie over the holidays, and despite our (mostly MY) vow to NOT get another dog until we move, we came home with a 2-month old sheltie puppy two months ago...

and had a 7-month old shiloh already home. So, two puppies with a 5-month gap between them.

NIGHTMARE.

Seriously. I was already dealing with my older puppy staying firmly in his Fear Phase, and we added in a very typical in-everything younger puppy. With the thankful exception of potty training, ALL the rest of Tal's training went bye-bye. Kel is actually smarter, but it's hard to get him to focus on us, on leash training, grooming, etc, when he would rather be with his best bud.

The puppies get along famously, and they will wear themselves out, but in the beginning we had to keep them separate since Tal had no bite inhibition and Kel had no fear, so we were dealing with a big puppy trying to play/maul a much smaller one. 

They are best buds, but we have to separate them for training, reinforcement of training, etc. They simply will be each other's distractions. It is exhausting. We have time, we have money, we have space, but the amount of time, money and space you will need for two very fast-growing, intelligent dogs will quickly cause those 'yeah, it'll be fun we walk them anyway!' phases to diminish. 

Your older puppy will be much larger when the younger one comes (since I guess it's safe to assume you and BF are getting that puppy no matter how many people here say (or imply) it's a stupid idea), and guess what, at 4+/- months, he will NOT be completely trained. He'll be in the beginning stages of teething, and could easily use the younger one as a chew toy. 

The novelty will wear out when you somehow maybe manage to train the older puppy, only to have to go through the same thing all over again with the younger.

And as for any breeding...this breed can take up to 2 years to physically mature; are you two already preparing for the extra time and space needed for 1) your boy's entrance into puberty, and 2) your female's heat cycles? And all the expected testing and training that you would want since you plan to be a reputable breeder...?

I love my pups. They are funny and sweet but together they are more work than I ever thought they would be (and they're not even the same breed, but both boys).


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

There is one way it might work, and that is if each of you owns and takes responsibility for one of the dogs. That means all the training, and all the care, and anything else that goes with it. It sounds like that is what you are thinking already.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> There is one way it might work, and that is if each of you owns and takes responsibility for one of the dogs. That means all the training, and all the care, and anything else that goes with it. It sounds like that is what you are thinking already.


And, if this is what you are thinking, 8 weeks and 16 weeks is better than 8 weeks and 18 months, because as you say, they don't really settle down until 2 or even 3-4 years, and beyond 4 months, the larger puppy can begin to actually hurt the smaller. 

Opposite sexes. Plan on taking them separately to obedience classes. Plan on them learning at different rates. Plan on them having different personalities. Plan on training and socializing both separately, and together. It is more work, not less to train two pups at once, than having them a few years apart, and training each puppyhood separately.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

From just a financial point of view, I spent over $6000 the first year of owning my current dog on vet bills and training. Adding the purchase price of the dog, toys, equipment, food, the first year would have cost close to $10k. For one dog. Not taking into consideration replacing the (expensive) chewed vacuum cleaner, carpet repairs on new carpet (twice in 2 weeks, our carpet in the living room was 2 weeks old when we got Nitro and now needs replacing) etc etc. The fantasy of having 2 puppies is not the reality of living 'the dream'. Please don't get another dog, wait.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Pluto26 said:


> Well we have been devoting all of our free time towards him and honestly I love it. I am in love with our puppy and I would see them both as having 2 kids you need to be there for. 24/7. We pay for the vet (money is not an issue) And we were planning on doing obedience classes once week when he is a tad older. My boyfriend and I take turns walking him and we have a few very nice parks to take them to when they are older to get the exercise they need.
> 
> Either way I really appreciate everyone's advice. It is something we definitely have to think long and hard about. But I think in the end it would be worth it.


I have two chihuahuas. Not even the same universe. If you have not raised a GSD puppy before, it's challenging. Wait till that puppy becomes a thinking adolescent. What a handful my guy was. 

Right now you are in the cute stage. The puppy will not stay there. Then, having 2, what a nightmare, IMO. You think you are up to it. Just wait . . .


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Two heads are better than one...

At getting into trouble.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

so does the breeder of this 2 week old female know you have a male pup and are they on board with you breeding? 
I hate the way this breed is going....too many are breeding willy nilly and not to keep the German Shepherd Dog going in the right direction. 
I hope you decide to just keep the male pup for now, work him, learn about this breed and maybe get a title or two on him to prove his breeders program is worthy. Then you can keep moving forward with your goals after learning from him.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I agree with what almost everyone else has said - bad, bad, bad idea! GSDs are not chi's. I had several pugs close together, no big deal. GSDs require so much more training and stimulation.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Do you have a plan to keep them separate when she's in heat until she's old enough to breed? And by old enough, I mean at least 2 years old, after you've had her hips and elbows checked by the OFA, at the very least. 

And if you do breed them, do you have a plan on how to deal with a litter of puppies until they're 8 weeks old? The care, the feeding, the vetting? And how do you plan to find good homes for all of them?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Pluto26 said:


> Either way I really appreciate everyone's advice. It is something we definitely have to think long and hard about. *But I think in the end it would be worth it.*


Why? What benefit would there be to having two puppies at the same time, with all that entails (and if you've never raised a GSD puppy, you have NO IDEA what that entails!), vs devoting all your time and attention to the puppy you have now, until he's a year old or, ideally, more, before adding a second dog?


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## Ripple (Mar 25, 2016)

Was your 12 week old male sold as a breeding prospect? Is his breeder on board with you breeding him? 

Here's some advice, in a nutshell. It is EXTREMELY difficult for a newcomer to buy a good bitch. You want a REALLY good bitch if the intentions are for her to be your foundation bitch. You need to prove to breeders that you are worthy of being sold this excellent breeding prospect bitch. Use your current male to get yourself out there. Show him, title him and get his health testing done. Hips and elbows certified through OFA as a bare minimum. On your journey meet breeders, join clubs, research, network and learn what pedigrees you are interested in for your bitch down the line. 

When you do get the bitch, repeat. Using the guidance of an experienced breeder/mentor, pick a suitable stud for her. Chances are very high that it will not be the male that you own.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Breeding... oh man. I hate seeing these posts. Really wish I could reach in through the monitor and slap some common sense into some people. Fools looking for an easy buck (read: "better the breed").


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

yuriy said:


> Breeding... oh man. I hate seeing these posts. Really wish I could reach in through the monitor and slap some common sense into some people. Fools looking for an easy buck (read: "better the breed").


 There are actually a lot of reasons people want to breed. Getting back their initial investment is not always the reason, and posts like this kind of backfire because people who aren't doing it for the money will think, "no, I am not who you are talking about, so it doesn't apply to me." 

Actually, when someone wants to breed their dog, there are really not that many arguments that are going to work. Your best bet is to embrace and welcome these people so that as they progress through the threads and through the problems with the breed, and through the training, and through the life with our dogs, they will hear real people telling about dog ownership, and will come up with why it might be better not to breed on their own. And then they will own that. And it will be set. 

Insulting them, telling them to leave it to the experts, or giving them a bunch of reasons not to do it, well, that will just put up the wall and people will do what they were planning, what they really want to do. 

I don't think this site will ever be able to encourage people to give up their idea of breeding their dogs. It might convince people to say, "Whoops! My son opened the gate and Hugo got Vera while we were in the kitchen having breakfast, looks like we are going to have puppies." But people will do what they are going to do. 

The reason this site can't work for this is because we always have an inrush of new owners, and an inrush of people who need to slap people who consider breeding their dogs. These people will never all stop and think that you can catch more flies with honey. Some will always run out the stories and threats and try to make people conform to the forums general idea of leaving breeding to the experts, etc. 

Instead of "No!!!! How can you even consider such a horrible thing? Don't you know your bitch can DIE!?!" Why not, "we're talking about baby puppies right now, plenty of time to worry about breeding when they get bigger, but it is probably a good idea to read through the breeding sections of this site -- lots of good information down there, and it will get you ready."

The thing is, hearing someone tell someone else that something is a big mistake, well, that is easier to listen to, easier to understand. Listening to someone discuss their experience with breeding, helps you decided whether or not this is something you want to try. It takes the personal aspect out of it. 

Like one person said, you aren't ready, or you don't know enough -- that crap may be true, probably is, but all it does is put that wall up. Humans have an amazing capacity to protect themselves mentally. So it is hard to even consider what someone is saying after that. 

Instead, welcome the newcomer and help the newcomer find their way to the areas they need to see to prepare themselves for what they are looking to do. Help them read up on it, sure some people will still not believe it applies to them, they won't have this problem, they will do it right, but maybe, just maybe they go into it with their eyes a bit more open, than they would have otherwise.


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## Sheera67 (Mar 29, 2015)

selzer said:


> There are actually a lot of reasons people want to breed. Getting back their initial investment is not always the reason, and posts like this kind of backfire because people who aren't doing it for the money will think, "no, I am not who you are talking about, so it doesn't apply to me."
> 
> Actually, when someone wants to breed their dog, there are really not that many arguments that are going to work. Your best bet is to embrace and welcome these people so that as they progress through the threads and through the problems with the breed, and through the training, and through the life with our dogs, they will hear real people telling about dog ownership, and will come up with why it might be better not to breed on their own. And then they will own that. And it will be set.
> 
> ...



This is a wonderful post !!!!!!!!!!


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## JRC (Jan 27, 2016)

I pray she takes all the advice she got here.!!!!!!!


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

selzer said:


> There are actually a lot of reasons people want to breed. Getting back their initial investment is not always the reason, and posts like this kind of backfire because people who aren't doing it for the money will think, "no, I am not who you are talking about, so it doesn't apply to me."
> 
> Actually, when someone wants to breed their dog, there are really not that many arguments that are going to work. Your best bet is to embrace and welcome these people so that as they progress through the threads and through the problems with the breed, and through the training, and through the life with our dogs, they will hear real people telling about dog ownership, and will come up with why it might be better not to breed on their own. And then they will own that. And it will be set.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying, and I agree, but I can't fathom trying to "play nice" with every fool that comes on here with the intention of breeding, having done zero research into absolutely anything, and frequently having never even owned a GSD before. Bringing life into this world - dog or human, for that matter - is _way_ too easy, and is SO frequently done by people who have no business doing it. 

How often do these threads pop up? Once per week or so? And do they ever end with the OP changing their mind? Maybe in that case of the 12 year old girl that we had recently, but that's the only one I can think of that actually had a positive result (from what I remember). Everyone else comes on here for validation of their already-formed decision, and if they don't get what they want to hear, they simply leave and do it anyways. The amount of backyard breeder puppies on Craigslist, Kijiji, and in rescues speaks to the volume of the problem. How many of these animals will end up getting put down? And for what? 

I know people (old neighbours / acquaintances) who have bred their dogs with the sole purpose of making a buck; they've since bought another pup just so they can breed their bitch again. Zero health checks. Zero training. Zero requirements for buyers. All about the $$.

I have friends (who gave up their GSD after failing miserably with it and got a lab) who have told me "well, if someone offers to breed with our boy, we'll do it." Nice people, but zero understanding of anything dog-related. They're willing to bring a litter into this world "because, why not." This same attitude is what we constantly see in these threads, and it infuriates me to no end when people treat the idea of breeding dogs with as much forethought as buying socks.

It's not my forum to lay down the law, but I'm of the opinion that these kinds of threads should simply not be tolerated. Moderators constantly edit threads to remove a breeder's name or the occasional (god-helps-us!!) F-bomb, but when it comes to this ****, it's all fine and dandy. Priorities...

But it's okay. I'm sure things will work out wonderfully because they have "6 weeks to properly train the one [they] have". A **** joke.

I'm out.


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

First of all... Why is everyone focusing on the breeding thing? My intention to have 2 dogs is not for breeding. Of course the option will be there because they are both full akc registered so i am not doing anything wrong. Am i? I have a lot of time to decide whether we want to breed or not. Either way, my original question was should i have 2 german shepherd puppies or not.. Not should i breed or not. But thanks for your opinion anyway


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Typical, asking for advice, getting it and still doing whatever you were planning. Adopting two puppies is only great for the trainers' income.


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Ok noone said i wasnt taking everyones advice... Will all of you just relax? I havent even gotten her and people are acting like i killed someone lol. I was simply asking for advice because i wanted to learn and see what people have to say before i actually did it. Isnt that smart of me? Im trying to do research before i make any decisions and i am still being insulted about not doing research and acting impulsively.. Funny.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

There are a lot of "yes, but"s in your posts. We try to save your sanity and that of your future dog and the pups resulting form the BY breedings, accidental or not. Ever tried to keep a female and male separated during a three week heat period? That's a whole other can of worms.
You will need all your time to get your pup on its feet the next two years. He hasn't even reached adolescence yet. But it (still) is a free country so you are free to do it your way.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Pluto26 said:


> Ok noone said i wasnt taking everyones advice... Will all of you just relax? I havent even gotten her and people are acting like i killed someone lol. I was simply asking for advice because i wanted to learn and see what people have to say before i actually did it. Isnt that smart of me? Im trying to do research before i make any decisions and i am still being insulted about not doing research and acting impulsively.. Funny.


I have 7 dogs. They are 11.5, 5, 4,3,2,2, 18 months. I just realized today that I have no more babies, all are potty trained and have a good amount of obedience. They weren't all pups when I got them so it fell into place as far as training goes for the most part. 3 of them are GSDs. I would never get two young pups at one time, you won't know if your coming or going. At a couple points I had 2 in training, they were older and it still took a lot of time, things don"t click with them until they are older, so you feel like you are getting nowhere fast. Then there are vet bills, between 2 dogs in two years I have spent over $20,000, that does not include the little emergencies in between or vaccinations for all of them. If you aren't familiar with the breed you should wait. You might completely fall in love with the breed or it might turn out that one is enough. As far as breeding goes. People are going to be passionate about this. You have to know the breed, you have to know which dogs will compliment each other and produce good dogs. You can have two great dogs but if you don't put the right ones together there is a mess. You could get the second one and find that nothing about them makes them good together. There are tons of GSDs in rescues and shelters everywhere. They get dumped daily because of their energy level, aggression(whether it's real or not) and most of them are 8-10 months old, lately a of of senior GSDs are out there. The overpopulation of dogs is in a very bad state right now, do you want to add to that? What would be so special about your pups? How would you feel if down the road those pups ended up in a shelter? Lots of stuff to consider!!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Pluto26 said:


> First of all... Why is everyone focusing on the breeding thing? My intention to have 2 dogs is not for breeding. Of course the option will be there because they are both full akc registered so i am not doing anything wrong. Am i? I have a lot of time to decide whether we want to breed or not. Either way, my original question was should i have 2 german shepherd puppies or not.. Not should i breed or not. But thanks for your opinion anyway


" There are actually a lot of reasons people want to breed"

sure one $ , two $$, three $$$. ......

ZERO investment in good stock, zero investment of time for training , getting mentored, rejecting less than stellar "breeding" potentials , zero education on the breed, zero experience , zero responsibility. 


Why is everyone focusing on the breeding aspect ? 
Really?
Do you know what a good GSD is?
Do you know good temperament?

"Of course the option will be there because they are both full akc registered so i am not doing anything wrong. "

so big fat what . 
You aren't doing anything right .

In all likelihood you got/are getting dogs from people who want to off load what they have produced.

wonder what the pedigree looks like.

Yes your original question was ," should you have two GSD ?". 
I like to dig deeper. I had a sneaking suspicion. 
Don't you think people ask me (as a breeder) for this ready-made entry level breeding upstart "kit" . 
Some of them will argue and defend even getting a brother and sister and have no shame or hesitation in admitting they would breed them together . 

count me in "I hate the way this breed is going....too many are breeding willy nilly and not to keep the German Shepherd Dog going in the right direction"

you might be lovely people - so this is not personal , this is advocating for the breed .

As Shaw says --- I hope it's not too late .

at minimum take advantage of a preview of
Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Do you have the pedigree on your present dog and the possible future dog?


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Pluto26 said:


> First of all... Why is everyone focusing on the breeding thing? My intention to have 2 dogs is not for breeding. Of course the option will be there because they are both full akc registered so i am not doing anything wrong. Am i? I have a lot of time to decide whether we want to breed or not. Either way, my original question was should i have 2 german shepherd puppies or not.. Not should i breed or not. But thanks for your opinion anyway


I think it is because in a previous post you said:

"And yes we were planning on breeding as we"

The people who post here are very passionate about german shepherds. The want to protect the breed they love. There is sooooo much more to it then "they are AKC registered so it is ok"

A lot of damage has been done to the breed by irresponsible breeders over the years. Bad temperaments have these dogs on tops of bite lists causing all sorts of political issues. Dogs that should be couragous according to the breed standard are bundles of nerves. These dogs have so many genetic issues. Dogs being crippled and in a life of pain because of hip dysplasia and DM. Young dogs dropping dead of cancer.

It's heart breaking to see the dogs. Our dogs. Our breed suffer so much.

The truth is the vast majority of AKC dogs are not worthy of being bred. 

From you post - you don't sound experienced with these dogs. The general thought is if you aren't familiar enough to navigate puppy hood. You aren't experienced enough to title or work your dogs to prove their breed worthiness. You arent experienced enough to research pedigrees to know what type of genetic match you need to make to produce the best pups possible. You aren't experienced enough to whelp and raise a litter and be the mentor of those who get your pups. 

That's what is "wrong". 

No one is jumping on you to be mean. A lot of the posters here are just like german shepherds - fiercely loyal and protective of those they love. 

And for the people here. What they love is german shepherds! The same as you. 

Please don't be put off by the tones. There are some phenomenal posters here. True experts of the breed. I imagine you came here is ultimately because you share our love for german shepherds. If you can handle the growls and look past it to the advice you will be well on your way to doing right by your dog's and the breed in general.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Actually I think your doing pretty good considering some of the responses, lol! You really just need to think the whole two puppy thing through, it is a lot of work. 

Gsds need to be trained, more than just an OB class or two. They're a highly intelligent breed and require mental stimulation as much as they do physical exercise. 

One of the big keys to training is focus, with a second pup involved you'll find they will probably seek out each other over you making training much more difficult. Gsds can become more challenging as they mature, things like leash reactivity, aggression, dog aggression ect... are unfortunately common. It would be extremely difficult to work through problems like this with your time divided. 

Like others have mentioned, I would consider waiting a couple years until you have more experience working with your current pup.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

AKC registering means just about nothing... just that you have a purebred dog. It says nothing about if health checks were done, whether or not genetic problems are present, says nothing about the quality of the dog, his/her nerves, capabilities, structure. Just says it is a purebred dog.


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Yes i have the pedigree paper work. His pedigree is amazing. He comes from champion blood line. And if i do decide to get a girl she will also have excellent pedigree. And i do plan on investing in training etc. I would just like to make it known that I am not planning on becoming a breeder. I love the breed and although some say its all money signs like miss Carmen over there. I have to disagree. Not everything is about money and some people actually want to learn.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

You might try checking out this link, lots of good info.

German Shepherd Guide - Home


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

voodoolamb said:


> I think it is because in a previous post you said:
> 
> "And yes we were planning on breeding as we"
> 
> ...


I agree with what you are saying about the harm coming to the breed. I am not a breeder, trainer, or a show person - just a passionate pet lover! Which is why I will be getting my new pup from an excellent breeder! I have seen pups from BYB, and there is no comparison - you get what you pay for.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so learn first.

many years
champion blood line means diddly -- 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/171425-opinions-two-breedings-holland.html

lots of good material in the forum archives


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## Ripple (Mar 25, 2016)

Can you post the pedigrees?
To the original question, I've had puppies similar in age with zero issues. The big thing is ensuring that you have time to get each puppy out and training separately. Sure, they can go out together too but training and socializing selerately helps them to bond more to you vs. each other. I would even enroll them in selerate classes if I were you.

As far as having opposite sexes goes, again doable. I would research the heck out of silent heats, because that does happen and ensure that you have a place to seperate them for when she is in season. I board my male when I have a bitch in season. I also want to stress that the chances of the male you have being the best option to breed your female to is low. For example my male that was purchased for breeding at this time I do not feel is a good match for any of the bitches I own. I'm not going to breed to him just because he's there. I'm going to do some research to find the best option.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I have raised 2 puppies at once, one male and one female, they were not GSDs but they were medium sized mutts. NEVER again would I do that. Way to hard, way too stressful. One learned faster than the other, the other one needed more work and attention and it was unfair to her that she didn't receive it because she had to share her time with her brother. I cannot imagine raising 2 GSDs at the same time, that's insanity! 

If this is your 1st GSD, you are in for one heck of a ride. He's a little puppy right now, wait until he hits the teenager phase, he will suddenly forget everything you taught him and he will try to test you. That stage is frustrating and I would never want to deal with 2 GSDs at that stage!

Carmen is a very respected, reputable breeder, that has spent a lot of years around GSDs, she knows what she is talking about, listen to her and learn. 

As for the breeding thing, sometimes I wish I would have bred Sinister, he is gorgeous, he has an amazing personality and he is a once in a lifetime kind of dog. I honestly don't think I would have had a problem finding homes for his puppies because my friends, family and co workers are crazy about him. But I didn't breed him because he *SHOULDN'T* be bred. He doesn't fit the breed standard in temperament or structure and he has a crappy pedigree from a backyard breeder. I learned a lot from this forum and in the end I decided to be a responsible pet owner, so I didn't breed him and I got him neutered. 

Even if you have 1 litter, you are a breeder. No way around it, you bred 2 dogs together, you are a breeder. It's your choice whether you want to be a backyard breeder producing more pet dogs when there are already so many puppies and dogs without homes sitting in shelters. What if your dogs have 10 puppies? Will you be able to find enough homes for them all? What if your female dies during labor? That can and does actually happen sometimes! What if some of your puppies end up in shelters? What you fail to realize is that your dogs will have puppies and then those puppies might have puppies and then those puppies might have puppies, and the cycle keeps going. You originally brought 10 puppies into the world and that turned into 100 puppies. Irresponsible breeding needs to stop. 

If you still want to breed then do it the right way. Get your dogs from reputable breeders with excellent bloodlines, I am guessing that will cost you anywhere from $1,500-$3,000 depending on whether you go with working lines or showlines. Get some titles on your dogs, either working titles or championships from showing. Get them health tested, hips, elbows, heart, DM, eyes, etc. Make sure they have the correct temperament. Learn everything you can about the breed, become knowledgeable about the breed.


​


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## Ripple (Mar 25, 2016)

The reason I asked for the pedigree is so that the members on the board could direct you to a venue that would be most appropriate to title these puppies in. Ex: Some pedigrees lead themselves more likely to produce dogs that would excel in IPO, conformation shows, herding...you get the idea. There are a lot of members on this board, if you OP would be willing to share your location I'm sure somebody could direct you to a local club to join to start getting on the right track if your true intentions are to breed this dog. Even if you weren't interested in breeding, it might be helpful to join a club to help you navigate through having 2 puppies at once.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how about a picture of the pup


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

I will get back to everyones questions in a bit. I am on my way to work. Also, i dont know how to use this website very well yet. Do you guys receive notifications whenever I write back ?


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

This was him around 2 weeks ago. He has changed a little since then but i dont have a recent picture. He is a sable gsd


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## Linda J Shaw (Jan 4, 2016)

*The Illustrated Standard for the German Shepherd Dog*

Everybody started out knowing nothing. Have to start somewhere. You will learn more from your first GSD than any other. 

This will get you started. Go to www.shawlein.com and click on the download for The Illustrated Standard for the German Shepherd Dog. It's a pdf of the first 51 pages of my book, and it's free. 

Enjoy


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Pluto, you are getting some big names responding to you. Try not to be defensive. No one knows you, so it is not about you per se, just what some of your comments mean to us. Realize one of the downfalls of the GSD is everyone thinking they should breed their dogs because they are cute and super special They are not thinking about what the breed needs now more than ever are people super committed to research (pedigrees, genetics, nutrition, etc) and building a knowledge and experience base and building a performance base (titles). There are SOOOOOOOOOO many backyard breeders that have contributed to the problems in this breed. That is what the reaction is about. You have great people on here, please be open to their thoughts. Please be open to going slowly and not becoming one of those... I have a cute dog and they should breed type of person. You have a lovely dog treat him well.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

First, OP, you kinda got kicked around a bit with passionate people here. Glad you have stuck around to hear the folks out.

Two GSD pups? I would not make it. A pup and a 4 yo - I can do that. But your patience will be tested even then. At least mine is. Every pup is a little different. You think you have it down with the one, the next one changes that up a bit for you. I've had pups house trained in two days, another that took a year. Most were in to some form of fashion design/wardrobe alteration at some point. 

Other training - on the recent pair - one came with focus and prey drive - the other's brain magically remained "off" until she was two.

With a greater age difference, the older dog gets more respect from the youngster and that = in my case, no dog/dog problems.

As far as breeding goes - a friend's daughter got a bitch with a lot of potential but no competition training, just back yard training. Husband and her decided from the get go to reproduce puppies. Woman home alone, dog went into labor. Dog having problems, had to call around to find a vet that they could afford (didn't like the 2k just for the c section surgery the one vet quoted) got the dog in in time. 12 puppies, I can't remember if all of them made it but months later they still had 4 that were not placed. Unfortunate that they found buyers for any of them without any working titles or at least conformation titles on the bitch. (no idea about the sire). Good news out of this story is that the bitch was spayed at the time of surgery. And my friend has a pup that is more than she wants to handle.

I've had people ask me if I were going to breed my mutt "to let her have puppies" "because she is such a nice dog" She was a nice dog. But no I was not going to, did not, breed her. The world has a great supply of nice dogs.

I've had people ask me if I were going to breed my long haired bitch - because they wanted a long hair. Nope, she's spayed. (this was a few years ago) The general public seems to be a bit more educated now but oh my.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Pluto26 said:


> I've heard about separating them and never leaving them alone together when we're not paying attention. Also, *we have another 6 weeks to properly train the one we have..* would that be enough time for potty training and biting? And yes we were planning on breeding as well.


Listen to what people with decades of experience with this breed are telling you. The quote in red above screams that you have no experience with this breed. These dogs do not 'properly train' in six weeks!!!! A young GSD will try you and test you until he is over 2 years old. And Carmen is telling you absolutely right--a puppy would only become a pull toy for the dog you have! No one here is trying to be mean, we are trying to a) protect whatever puppy you are thinking of getting: b) keep the dog you have from becoming an undisciplined monster; and, c) make your life infinitely easier.

Susan


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Before anyone else replies; please read that I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO GET A FEMALE. I am following everyone's advice. I've decided to learn more and raise the one I already have correctly. Advice on how to train properly and bring him to his full potential would be greatly appreciated! Should I start another thread on that? I am very interested in learning more and not just having a german shepherd puppy for no reason. I want to succeed in training him well.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What do you want to train him in? If breeding is someday your goal, you need to decide how you want to prove the dogs are breedworthy.

So...IPO? Agility? AKC? Conformation? Personally, I love IPO and it looks like you have a working line?


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Ripple said:


> The reason I asked for the pedigree is so that the members on the board could direct you to a venue that would be most appropriate to title these puppies in. Ex: Some pedigrees lead themselves more likely to produce dogs that would excel in IPO, conformation shows, herding...you get the idea. There are a lot of members on this board, if you OP would be willing to share your location I'm sure somebody could direct you to a local club to join to start getting on the right track if your true intentions are to breed this dog. Even if you weren't interested in breeding, it might be helpful to join a club to help you navigate through having 2 puppies at once.



For now, what I can tell you is that his mom's roots are from the Kreative Kennel in California, and his dad's roots from the jippo-me kennel in Czech Republic. I have not yet ordered his whole family tree.


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> What do you want to train him in? If breeding is someday your goal, you need to decide how you want to prove the dogs are breedworthy.
> 
> So...IPO? Agility? AKC? Conformation? Personally, I love IPO and it looks like you have a working line?




Yes, I have a working line. I will have to do more research on the different types of training.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You can find an IPO club here
Clubs & Events | United Schutzhund Clubs of America

Google DVG and GSDCA as well. There are clubs under those organizations.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Pluto26 said:


> Before anyone else replies; please read that I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO GET A FEMALE. I am following everyone's advice. I've decided to learn more and raise the one I already have correctly. Advice on how to train properly and bring him to his full potential would be greatly appreciated! Should I start another thread on that? I am very interested in learning more and not just having a german shepherd puppy for no reason. I want to succeed in training him well.


Yippee. You are being sooooo smart on this! And Thank you! 

You know what you might consider is the type of "job" you want to do with him. If I were you I would find an IPO (Schutzhund) or protection sport club to observe. Then I would find an agility competition and dock diving competition. Then I would observe a nose work class. Maybe you have a therapy dog trainer in the area. These dogs excel when they have a job. They are just that smart and mental stimulation is just as important as exercise. 

My preference for training is to find a really well respected trainer that has a proven track record with protection breeds and then work one-on-one with that person. I just find you get so much more out of training than a class. That is my preference. 

Best to you. You are totally doing the right thing.


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## Pluto26 (Mar 30, 2016)

DutchKarin said:


> Yippee. You are being sooooo smart on this! And Thank you!
> 
> You know what you might consider is the type of "job" you want to do with him. If I were you I would find an IPO (Schutzhund) or protection sport club to observe. Then I would find an agility competition and dock diving competition. Then I would observe a nose work class. Maybe you have a therapy dog trainer in the area. These dogs excel when they have a job. They are just that smart and mental stimulation is just as important as exercise.
> 
> ...





Thank you. And I think I really love the idea of protection training. To my family and I, it would be the most useful ability. Would you happen to know any good trainers in South Florida? I don't even know where to begin to look. And how old should we start?


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Pluto26 said:


> Thank you. And I think I really love the idea of protection training. To my family and I, it would be the most useful ability. Would you happen to know any good trainers in South Florida? I don't even know where to begin to look. And how old should we start?


I would start new threads on some of these topics.. Like one for south florida. Close this one up!
Karin


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Pluto26 said:


> Before anyone else replies; please read that I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO GET A FEMALE. I am following everyone's advice. I've decided to learn more and raise the one I already have correctly. Advice on how to train properly and bring him to his full potential would be greatly appreciated! Should I start another thread on that? I am very interested in learning more and not just having a german shepherd puppy for no reason. I want to succeed in training him well.


Yay, that is wonderful! With such a good attitude, you will find lots of helpful information as you head in that direction! :hug:

Susan


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I just left SW Florida. There was a schutzhund club that met off SR 31 on border of Punta Gorda/Ft Myers.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Pluto, pretty awesome to read your adjusted plan. I am sure you will cherish the years when you train and work him. You'll get that almost surreal bond with your dog that way. Enjoy and you can still enjoy your plans for the future as well.
Keep us posted. There is tons of good info on this forum.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Good news about just keeping the male and working him while you learn about this breed. I hope you can find a great club to work with. Your pup has potential and your journey has just begun!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I was the one that said people are breeding willy nilly. I see it constantly on a fb page I admin(local GSD people) It is sad that many young people will get dogs, breed them, make a bit of cash and not even understand the lines or anything else about this breed. 
These people most often are not open minded enough to learn, but will seek out approval from like minded. They will block or delete when others aren't in agreement with them. 
It is very frustrating seeing it over and over on many fb pages. I step away because there is nothing we can do other than link good information to steer these 'breeders' in the right direction so this breed isn't circling the drain. 

"The demand for puppies is pretty constant" 
THAT^^^ is part of the problem because most pet buyers won't do any research on their own and will buy from the breeders that I described above.


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## CarolinaRose (Jun 21, 2014)

YAY for good decisions! :happyboogie:

Glad to hear you're sticking to one pup. As for what to train him in, if you have any desire at all to breed him in the future, the standard benchmark for responsible GSD breeders is to get the dog successfully trained and titled in Schutzhund/IPO (same things, different names). You may have noticed the passion with which people responded to you with here. Most have the same passion when it comes to what passes for a breed-able dog. A SCH I/IPO I at minimum, but higher titles for a male, such as SCH II or III are more preferable. A dog who cannot pass a SCH test is likely not courageous (has bad nerves) or Clear-Headed enough to be bred. 

Kreative Kennels AND Jipo-me?! Again, GREAT that you're sticking with the one pup, because it sounds like you might have your hands FULL! But the upside is that the potential should be there for great working ability, i think. 

There are some VERY knowledgable GSD people on this board. In fact, I've spent several years researching which breeder I want to (eventually) get my pup from. When I joined this board and started poking around, I was very surprised to find most of them are actually on here! (And I'm very excited to see that Linda Shaw has just joined. I plan on getting her new book soon) So take heed of the (passionate) advice being thrown your way, it's high quality stuff. 

And Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> I was the one that said people are breeding willy nilly. I see it constantly on a fb page I admin(local GSD people) It is sad that many young people will get dogs, breed them, make a bit of cash and not even understand the lines or anything else about this breed.
> These people most often are not open minded enough to learn, but will seek out approval from like minded. They will block or delete when others aren't in agreement with them.
> It is very frustrating seeing it over and over on many fb pages. I step away because there is nothing we can do other than link good information to steer these 'breeders' in the right direction so this breed isn't circling the drain.
> 
> ...


I wish I had quoted Selzers post, as it was deleted, I was responding to her reply to Carmen. My post makes no sense now!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I'm sorry, it makes sense to me. I just thought since the OP decided to just get the one dog for now, I wouldn't continue the conversation in her thread.


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