# How do you know when they have finished delivering?



## Gilly1331

Like my title states how do you know when they have finished delivering? Our vet is refusing to do any X-rays or ultrasounds says its a waste of time and money and not always accurate. I have insisted and they still are stating they won't be doing either test for our girl. I have called a few other local vets but they won't or don't take in any new patients at this time as well as they dont "steal" other vets clients. So when she goes into labor and how will I know she has finished delivering all the pups she is carrying and not panic thinking there is more?


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## 4TheDawgies

yikes sounds like you have some stupid vets in your area. Who would turn down business? Especially serious business that could potentially be life threatening. 

I would recommend doing x-rays, they are more accurate because you can get a still shot and can count heads. Some puppies can hide behind others but it gives you a general idea of what you are working with. 

I would not recommend giving up on the head count. Some people go in blind. That makes me nervous personally. Most if not all (I don't know about some of them) the breeders I respect use the X-rays or ultrasounds to count the puppies so they have a good idea of what they are waiting for.

If the mother is in labor for a puppy longer than 2 hours I would start to worry and take her in to make sure someone isn't stuck and doesn't need an emergency C-section


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## marbury

Find a new vet, insist on it. A repro specialist is best. I wouldn't be able to stand not having at least some idea of how many to expect.

I whelped a bitch I co-own last weekend and her xray count was 7-8. She delivered 7 and we sat there for six hours waiting for any sign of further contractions. Finished her out with no problem and had 7 healthy pups. I can't imagine that six hour stint we did five, six, or seven times. Too nerve wracking for me!


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## stealthq

Wait for some of the breeders on here to chime in, or do a search of the forums for x-rays and whelping. I know I've read posts from a few detailing personal experiences where head counts were totally wrong and what signs indicate that you have one (or more) puppies than you thought still in the womb.

ETA: My point being that even with the x-ray if you have one done, you'll still need to know the signs.


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## Gilly1331

I made an apt with my current vet bc they insist on a office visit prior to making ANY type of decision reguarding an x-ray or ultrasound.. When I go on Friday I am going to INSIST on one or the other and I won't be leaving until one is done. She is already 44 days yet they insist on the office visit and palpation and "will decide from there" of anything else needs to be done. Um hello..we already have the pregnancy confirmed!!! We just need to have an approx of how many I will be expecting once she starts labor...why isn't there any more straight honest and hard working vets out there anymore? 

Any full time breeders input on ending signs of labor would be great..normally we usually pass off to the breeder for deliveries but this time their family is away out of state and no one else is in state to come assist us so we are delivering at home for the first time.


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## selzer

Sometimes I x-ray in the last week, sometimes not, it is my decision not my vet's. But it would be I think unethical for a vet to x-ray as early as you want them to, suggesting that the count will be accurate.

Let's see, 
Arwen first litter, x-rayed, counted 7, there were 10.
Arwen's second litter, x-rayed, counted 8 maybe 10, there were 14.
Babs' first litter, x-rayed, counted 6, there were 8.
Jenna's first litter, x-rayed, count "a lot", there were 10
Arwen's third litter, ultra-sound, they said definitely more than 1, there was 1, delivered by c-section.
Odie's first litter for me, ultra-sound 4, there were 4, tested right before the c-section.

As for after whelping. I have brought a few in to have them checked because they were running a fever the next day (it was hot), but, they were done.

Mostly what happens, and she circles, tears up papers, has contractions, spills some water, and then delivers a puppy. When she is done, she stops having contractions. She still may tear up papers though. And she still may bleed black gunk for a while. Keep track of her temperature, and the puppies' weights.


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## Gilly1331

Selzer if I don't call my vet 1-2 weeks prior to trying to schedule an apt the label it an "emergency" visit and charge extra. I was planning to make an apt for around 54-58 days for an xray just for an estimate on a pup count. Thank you for the hints on what to look for during/after and luckily I have an 24 hr emergency vet less then 5 mins down the road if I feel anything is going down hill.


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## marbury

Well, if she doesn't have contractions any more you're pretty safe. Keep an eye out for grunting, straining... all the signs you see before she has her first few pups. If she doesn't exhibit any of those signs (each bitch is different) then you are probably done. After 6 hours of non activity we call it quits. If you want to research oxytocin and discuss it with your vet that can be an option as a finisher.
When you need to worry is when she does have contractions that are not followed by a puppy.
Contractions are visible to the naked eye. Some bitches just grunt during contractions, others straighten their back and neck or back legs and pull their lips back. I have been present for a whelp in a first-timer in which she would crawl into her momma's lap for each contraction!

I haven't done a whole heck of a lot of whelps, but for the ones I've seen mom is visibly tired when she's done. Nodding off, just a generally relaxed atmosphere. Her job is done, everybody is nursing... she knows she can nap.


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## selzer

Gilly1331 said:


> Selzer if I don't call my vet 1-2 weeks prior to trying to schedule an apt the label it an "emergency" visit and charge extra. I was planning to make an apt for around 54-58 days for an xray just for an estimate on a pup count. Thank you for the hints on what to look for during/after and luckily I have an 24 hr emergency vet less then 5 mins down the road if I feel anything is going down hill.


I am all for not spending more than you have to, but, unless you spent the money to determine exactly what day she ovulated, then you cannot set up an appointment to x-ray after she whelps. So if your vet charges for an emergency visit during normal business hours because you were not on the schedule, then you are going to have to spring for the emergency -- no other way to pin point delivery. 

If you are springing for the emergency anyway, then wait and see, and go to the ER five minutes away. 

My vet, well, I did x-ray Babs and found she had 1 big puppy in her. I needed to know if she was pregnant so that I could set up the second box. I had bought that years ago and used one side as the bottom of the puppy cart I made to take the puppies to the vet for shots. Anyhow, I needed to know whether I needed to get that ready as she really could have been either way. 

So we knew there was one pup in there. 

Well, I was up all night, and still no puppy though she went into labor around 1AM. By 4:30 it seemed we were not going to deliver. It was either pack her up and drive 2.5 hours each way, or wait until 7:30 and take her to my vet. 

I was there when the vet got there. They had me in the room. I told them I could feel the head, but she wasn't able to get it out. So I held Babs' head and the vet and the tech worked on the other end and got Jabba out. Everything went really, really well. No C-section! Yay!!! And the total bill was around $100. 

You really have to be careful with oxytocin. I learned how to use that on Odie's last litter. Well, first after being in labor for hours, I got her in to my vet, and she did an x-ray to ensure that the pup was not blocking the birth canal. They can rupture the womb if given Oxytocin and they have a puppy blocking. Anyhow, we gave her a shot and calcium, and then another, and she gave me another to give her at home. Didn't work. She needed a c-section. And the puppies all died. Very sad. She said they had bruising on them, but that they were about a week early. Five were 12 ounces and 1 was six ounces. The large pups were about 4 ounces shy of the birthweight of her previous litter, so I figure 2-3 days early. Hard to say. But if they were lacking hair, etc, they were probably earlier. They couldn't get them going. It is the sad part of breeding. 

Anyhow, good luck with your pups. Don't let her strain too long. If she has had pups before, she will probably be fine.


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## WVGSD

I only x-ray around day 58 because radiographs rely on the calcification of the skeletons in order for the puppies to show up. If you have the x-rays done too early, it is wasted. 

One of my females had an ultransound and three puppies were seen. She gave birth to eleven. I stopped having ultrasounds done. Most x-rays have been within one or two puppies of the correct total for me. 

I keep an injection of Pitocin (oxytocin) on hand in case I need it in the middle of the night during whelping. If I know that the female has not finished whelping, has already had at least one puppy normally AND we have gone more than two hours since the last puppy birth without any contractions, I give the Pitocin to stimulate contractions. If there is further delay, I get to the emergency vet as quickly as possible. 

Whelping can be nerve wracking and stressful. We will hope for an uneventful delivery for your girl.


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## Schoenrocks

selzer said:


> Sometimes I x-ray in the last week, sometimes not, it is my decision not my vet's. But it would be I think unethical for a vet to x-ray as early as you want them to, suggesting that the count will be accurate.
> 
> Let's see,
> Arwen first litter, x-rayed, counted 7, there were 10.
> Arwen's second litter, x-rayed, counted 8 maybe 10, there were 14.
> Babs' first litter, x-rayed, counted 6, there were 8.
> Jenna's first litter, x-rayed, count "a lot", there were 10
> Arwen's third litter, ultra-sound, they said definitely more than 1, there was 1, delivered by c-section.
> Odie's first litter for me, ultra-sound 4, there were 4, tested right before the c-section.
> 
> As for after whelping. I have brought a few in to have them checked because they were running a fever the next day (it was hot), but, they were done.
> 
> Mostly what happens, and she circles, tears up papers, has contractions, spills some water, and then delivers a puppy. When she is done, she stops having contractions. She still may tear up papers though. And she still may bleed black gunk for a while. Keep track of her temperature, and the puppies' weights.


My Shep is I think in labor now. Her temp was below 100 two days ago. She is 60 days now and had all the signs for the last to days. She is not quite 2 and this was an unplanned litter. My sons Shep got to her while he was watching her. My vet told us that since she is so young that it is unusual for them to have so many ...at least 10 heads... That she may poop out after 6-7 and we would have to bring her in for c section. I saw that several of your first timers had large litters...did they all go natural or c section? How long does a delivery with that many pups last?
Thank you


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## selzer

Let's leave all the explanations, excuses, and blaming aside, as the puppies are coming. 

It is probably better to have a larger litter, for your young bitch, because they will be smaller and easier to deliver. But there will be more of them. And yes, it takes a long time to get them all out. The first one is tough. Usually after she passes some fluid, the pup will present in half an hour. Usually.

If she is straining and contracting and trying for two hours and no pup, then you have to call your vet and probably take her in.

In between puppies, could be 30 minutes for several of them, then 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours, and even 6-8 hours and still present a live puppy (Babs Sweet Surprise). 

Arwen's second litter was delivered in 2 days -- 24 hours of whelping. She kept pushing out a dead one, and then a live one. 8 live, 6 dead -- something happened during this, bad dog food for sure -- the lot numbers were affected, but of course we didn't know anything about it until months later.

Arwen was 4 when she had her first litter, Jenna was 4. But Karma and Bear were two. Bear had 9, no problem, no C-section, all live births. Karma had 6. No problems, I lost one, I think, it was not all the way formed. Very sad. But she had six alive. Only my import required C-sections. And Arwen's third litter was a singleton, she went into labor but came out of it without a puppy, and so I needed to take her for a C. 

It's the last minute now, but good condition and exercise up to whelping helps her have the energy and strength to deliver all. Keep carnation condensed milk on hand, and white ice cream. Sometimes, these can help her start again even if she is pooped. Keep all outside stressors to a minimum. Do not call in the children, grand children, neighbors to witness the miracle of birth, and do not allow other dogs in the home to run in and out of the whelping area. You may know all of this, but not everyone does.

Putting a leash on her and having her walk for a little bit (take a towel with you incase she delivers while outside pottying). That sometimes gets her going again. And feed her people-food. Don't worry about too much salt or sugar. Just stay away from onions, chocolate, nuts -- anything dogs can't eat. 

Good luck.


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## Betty

I'm a firm believer in walks before, during, and after delivery. Always on leash and with a flashlight at night, inspect each squat to ensure that it wasn't a pup.

Sometimes with first time moms you do have to force/bribe them out of the whelping box the first day or two, but canines like humans I think do better moving around a bit. 

The only c section I ever had to do was on a girl with her last litter. 
It was also a small litter, 3, and the pups were huge....


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## selzer

Just make sure that you leave any puppies in the whelping box, in a safe room where other dogs cannot go. And do not let the other dogs run up to her. 

Some bitches will not have a problem, others will be in Momma-Bear mode for good reason. Newborn whelps are not like puppies, they smell funny or something. Some dogs/bitches will try to kill them. Don't put your other critters in a position where you will always remember that they did something awful. It's totally avoidable.


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