# Choke or Prong for my pup



## tjpearse (Jan 31, 2014)

Hugo is now 6 months old and pulls like no other. He is getting better with loose leash from training constantly. However, that goes out the window as soon as a bird or other animal is around. Also, if a group of people are walking in front of me, he pulls to catch up with them. 

I was wondering if I should get him a choke collar. I have a prong that I've used once or twice and it is a miracle worker with him. He never left my side the entire walk and it was almost a three mile walk. I'm also not too sure if he is still too young to use a prong, so I haven't been using it much. My neighbor a couple doors down is a K9 police officer and his GSD is just amazing. He told me that I should use a choke because the prong is only for bad case dogs. It seems like the choke wouldn't be nearly as effective as a prong. Plus the choke seems like it might be tough to snap him out of prey drive around distractions. Any advice would be awesome. Thanks.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Go with the prong, must less chance of a neck injury and more effective in most cases. 

Keep going with the training as well


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I agree with Shade


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## Skywalkers Mom (Oct 26, 2012)

Well I believe neither. We have had numerous dogs over the years and never used choke collars. My parents had great danes and used prong ones a few times but to them it seemed cruel. I bought a Gentle leader for my overly agressive Husky mix. She passed and when I got my GSD, he was adopted from rescue, I use it on him. Its extremely effective without any cruelty. Now he did have aggresive behaviors so also bought a soft muzzle they work also. Good luck.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I agree with Shade too.

Prong collar and continue training.

I will never use a choke chain.

Using prong collars the correct way is not cruelty.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Agree with Shade. Prongs, if used properly, are not even remotely cruel and are much safer and more effective than choke chains. They're a tool, and shouldn't necessarily be a permanent solution. I have a 7 month old female who is VERY strong, and I used a prong for a couple of weeks to aid with training (rather than as a crutch) and now no longer need to.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Gentle leaders can be hard on the muzzle, and the neck because the dog is jerked if self correcting. I'd much rather use a prong over a GL.


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## tjpearse (Jan 31, 2014)

I tried the Gentle Leader and didn't like it. I gave him a high reward for touching the collar with his nose. Then, moved to high reward for wearing it. Same with the leash attached. But, when we walked he would absolutely freak out when it pulled him to the side, when he pulled. Then, he would lay down and roll around trying to get it off. He wouldn't move no matter how hard I tried. Plus, the main reason I stopped using it was because it was removing hair around the area. When I tried the prong, he whimpered the first pull. That made me start to regret my decision using it, but after that he never pulled again.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

tjpearse said:


> I tried the Gentle Leader and didn't like it. I gave him a high reward for touching the collar with his nose. Then, moved to high reward for wearing it. Same with the leash attached. But, when we walked he would absolutely freak out when it pulled him to the side, when he pulled. Then, he would lay down and roll around trying to get it off. He wouldn't move no matter how hard I tried. Plus, the main reason I stopped using it was because it was removing hair around the area. When I tried the prong, he whimpered the first pull. That made me start to regret my decision using it, but after that he never pulled again.


It's not a pain reaction, it's a surprise reaction. Put it around your thigh and give it a good yank (a yank you'd never use on your dog), and you'd be amazed that it doesn't hurt, at all. When I first used one I was reticent to do so, and my trainer made me "use" it on myself. I have a low pain threshold and it didn't hurt. And, you don't have a nice thick layer of fur. It applies pressure uniformly around the neck, so it can startle dogs the first time they self-correct with it.


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## tjpearse (Jan 31, 2014)

Thanks everyone. This advice is very helpful.


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## Athena'sMom (Jan 9, 2014)

Prong but find a good trainer to show you the proper way to fit and to correct with this awesome tool. Used properly it is a great tool to have in your arsenal but don't rely on it solely.
It is a great tool to teach the basics but I always try to wean my dogs off of it and return to a flat collar. But there are times when they need a refresher coarse and I bring it out again. Good luck!!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Make sure you get the prong with the rounded prongs that are smooth!

Also this is how to properly use/fit the prong collar.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Skywalkers Mom said:


> Well I believe neither. We have had numerous dogs over the years and never used choke collars. My parents had great danes and used prong ones a few times but to them it seemed cruel. I bought a Gentle leader for my overly agressive Husky mix. She passed and when I got my GSD, he was adopted from rescue, I use it on him. Its extremely effective without any cruelty. Now he did have aggresive behaviors so also bought a soft muzzle they work also. Good luck.


 GL's cause a lot of neck and eye injuries.

I had one for my dog, it rubbed the fur off her nose and was irritating her eyes. My vet says she sees that a lot, plus neck injuries.

Prongs are actually far safer, and as a bonus, my dog is much happier wearing her prong than her GL.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

tjpearse said:


> Hugo is now 6 months old and pulls like no other. He is getting better with loose leash from training constantly. However, that goes out the window as soon as a bird or other animal is around. Also, if a group of people are walking in front of me, he pulls to catch up with them.
> 
> I was wondering if I should get him a choke collar. *I have a prong that I've used once or twice and it is a miracle worker with him. He never left my side the entire walk and it was almost a three mile walk*. I'm also not too sure if he is still too young to use a prong, so I haven't been using it much. My neighbor a couple doors down is a K9 police officer and his GSD is just amazing. He told me that I should use a choke because the prong is only for bad case dogs. It seems like the choke wouldn't be nearly as effective as a prong. Plus the choke seems like it might be tough to snap him out of prey drive around distractions. Any advice would be awesome. Thanks.


 
^^^This is your answer. Prong


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

*we are using prong right now*

My dog is just over a year old and is crazy strong. We have been going clicker training on loose leash walking. Which he was doing well with on all things, but walking. He would be fine and then yang my arm off trying to change directions to go to the park, or go sniff another dog. Sometimes he would just want to go down a certain street for no apparent reason and it was very tough to hold him back. No amount of clicking and yummy treats seems to stop this or help him figure it out. We never had this issue with our previous dog.

I first tried a martingale collar because it seems less intense, but like the choke collars, it just seemed he would be in a permanent weezing choke for blocks and blocks as he pulled. I was starting to dread walking him and I really love walking and exploring neighborhoods. 

My brother swears by his prong for his boxer, so I broke down an bought one. Walking is now a pleasure, we stays by my side or in acceptable loose leash-ness. I've been using the clicker and treats too in the hope that we won't always have to rely on the prong collar. 

My main objection to the prong, besides the 2 collars issue, is that non-dog people interpret the aggressive look of the prong collar to mean your dog is mean and out of control. With a mostly black GSD male, we don't need anything else going on that contributes to people being scared of him.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

put a scarf over your dogs neck, the judgemental's won't be able to see what's under there. 
And seeing a well behaved obedient dog regardless of the color or breed should not intimidate anyone.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

They also make really great covers that make them look like martingale collars (and spruce them up a bit  )


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## Mishka&Milo (Jan 4, 2014)

My husband bought me a black prong..... Best gift ever I must say. (Second to my shepherd of course). You can't even see it on her! It's wonderful 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

LaRen616 said:


> Make sure you get the prong with the rounded prongs that are smooth!
> 
> Also this is how to properly use/fit the prong collar.


This is a myth. If you're using it properly it can hang a little lower. It doesn't have to be super tight to where it doesn't slide.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

That is interesting Baillif. My trainer has trained a lot with Ivan B (has two Ot vitosha mals) and says the same thing. Not that Ivan necessarily has anything to do with it; I was just thinking that you and my trainer are of similar approach to training.

Hey, when you getting your puppy anyway?

P.S. OP I have a Herm Sprenger Black prong and it is awesome. Who cares what others say.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Ivan has had an influence. Personal experience did the rest.

Puppy should be born some time within the next few days but won't be old enough to take home until closer to August. That is if there is a male in that litter. I'll be able to get a look at them when I head down there to train in the next week or so.


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## canyadoit (May 14, 2014)

For a pup ? A prong or choke collar ? NUTS
Use a flat collar and lots of work Why use the 
Heavy training aids first ? I guess it is easier and makes the handler look better For hard to work dogs sure for a while For a pup again Nuts


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Hah!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Prong over a gentle leader. 

I have used a choke, but only with trained dogs -- they are ok in the AKC ring. Chokes can be easily abused, and very ineffective, especially when they are not used correctly. They are cheap, and easy to put on, beyond that, they are not really a great choice.

Head halters are for horses. Haltis and Gentle Leaders are ok so long as you NEVER try to correct a dog with one, and your dog NEVER decides to bolt either after something, or away from something. I think they are very unsafe overall.

Flat collars are fine. Continue training. If he pulls, put on the brakes. Do not follow him. Turn around and go the other way. But if training becomes fighting with your dog, it is much better to go with a prong collar, so you can remain even, and the dog understands that he is not going to go where he wants, as fast as he wants.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Mishka&Milo said:


> My husband bought me a black prong..... Best gift ever I must say. (Second to my shepherd of course). You can't even see it on her! It's wonderful
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 I have one too, I love it!


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## Steve K (Jun 18, 2014)

I had a question, but re-read entire thread. I think I will continue with his flat collar at this point. I like "selzer's" suggestion. Our Legend is only 4 months old. He is strong as an ox, already stronger than I ever remember my big Rottie Thor being (probably 'cause I'm old and fat now!).
I think when the dogs are young, the best method is just a lot of practice! But remember: don't overdo your sessions. Some days it just don't work and ya gotta take a deep breath, and remember there's always tomorrow!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Shade said:


> Go with the prong, must less chance of a neck injury and more effective in most cases.
> 
> Keep going with the training as well


Agree, no chokers. I wish I had started mine on the prong at that age. It has been a life saver and the walks and other events are enjoyable. I still use treats and toys for good behavior and the clicker and treats for teaching new behavior.
It has also worked wonders for fetching as he was happy to keep the toy himself before. Just make sure he never reaches the end of the leash/long line when fetching.
Good luck, continue what you are doing. I am a prong convert 
With the next dog it will be prong as soon as these issues prop up.


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## Katos_Mom (Jan 2, 2014)

My trainer had me start out with a choke collar on my gsd. However, I had to move up to a prong collar because I could yank all day on the choke collar and Kato would not respond. Most german shepherds have a high pain tolerance. I suggest starting off with the choke collar and move on accordingly.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

canyadoit said:


> For a pup ? A prong or choke collar ? NUTS
> Use a flat collar and lots of work Why use the
> Heavy training aids first ? I guess it is easier and makes the handler look better For hard to work dogs sure for a while For a pup again Nuts


The flat collar training works well when the entire situation is under control, like in a well managed class or in your back yard. The problem starts when things in life "pop up" and the dog wants it, no matter what you do. No walking back works then. Then you need impulse control so you won't be taken kite flying by a strong young dog. The prong has increased impulse control dramatically and once they know it and you have applied it the correct way, you hardly have to use it for corrections. Later you can go back to the martingale or flat collar when he is ready.
I have learned not be hardcore about certain tools or techniques anymore but adjust to the individual dog, instead of calling other opinions "Nuts".


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

You could also try a Freedom harness or other front-clip type harness.

My dogs are nicely heel trained when one-on-one with me, but my youngest tends to get a bit brassy when I walk him with the other dog. Admittedly I don't have really the time or desire to proof LLWing with both at the same time, so I use the Freedom when I take both out for casual walks. Works great.


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