# Congo, 3 other dogs, euthanized after attack



## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080618/NEWS/80618054

TRENTON — Congo, a dog who sparked a debate on immigration after biting a Honduran landscaper, has been euthanized after attacking its owner's mother in Princeton 
Township.

Police say Congo and three other dogs jumped on Constance Ladd Tuesday afternoon, causing her to fall as she left Elizabeth James' house. Police say the 75-year-old had puncture wounds and lacerations to her forearm, chest and head.

It was not clear which dog or dogs caused the bites.

James' husband, Guy, notified police the dogs had been euthanized Wednesday morning.

The Times of Trenton first reported the story.

It was more than a year ago that Congo was ordered euthanized after the landscaper was attacked. The owners said the attack was provoked.

Gov. Jon S. Corzine's office received over 10,000 pleas on the dog's behalf and the German shepherd was spared under a plea bargain.


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## CindyM (Mar 20, 2007)

what is going on....


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

I just read the story after the newspaper link was posted on petfinder.com. Apparently all four of the owners' dogs were euthanized after they attacked the wife's elderly mother. 

RIP Congo. So sad.


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## acurajane (May 21, 2008)

wow how unfair. It doesn't sound like the situation was investigated very well.


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

I hate to say it, but it sounds like Congo's first attack was not necessarily as isolated it was portrayed.







RIP Congo et al.


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## Clare (Feb 6, 2005)

I dont know the details but does anyone else think poor training was involved in this?

Just my two cents


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

I'm sorry that these dogs' owners were not responsible individuals. They:
1. Obviously did not take the time to train their dogs; 
2. Were irresponsible allowing the elderly mother to leave the home without walking her out;
3. Allowed an atmosphere where an aggressive pack mentality in the dogs was able to come out.

It is sad, especially for the elderly mother. It must have been extremely frightening for her and probably will be a painful healing process for a woman her age. 
However, I don't see it as unfair that these dogs were euthanized. I would like to know the breeds of the other dogs and if they knew the elderly mother. 
Where exactly are they suppose to go after an incident like this?
Man, lately, I just seem to be the nay-sayer on this board, but in reality, what would their future be. Where are they going to live where you can guarantee they won't have contact with another individual that they may think is a threat? She had bites on her head and chest ... they weren't just giving her warning bites.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Do we have the old Congo thread anywhere I wonder? Or an original article-here are some:
http://www.itchmo.com/family-fights-for-dogs-life-after-attack-3823 

http://dogblog.dogster.com/2007/11/20/ne...rarily-delayed/ talk about hindsight 

http://wcbstv.com/local/german.shepard.doggie.2.566960.html

New article: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/06/german_shepherd_congo_involved.ht
google news: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=congo%20german%20shepherd&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn


This happened before. 

It shouldn't have happened again. 

Those owners did not learn and the dogs paid for it. 

I believe they were breeding those dogs, so they were a related pack and apparently in charge. 

Wow-good search there KShort!


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Here's one of the old threads, but probably has similar links to what you posted, Jean.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post603792

The dogs were related and bred by this family.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: ebrannanI'm sorry that these dogs' owners were not responsible individuals. They:
> 1. Obviously did not take the time to train their dogs;
> 2. Were irresponsible allowing the elderly mother to leave the home without walking her out;
> 3. Allowed an atmosphere where an aggressive pack mentality in the dogs was able to come out.
> ...


I agree with you. The owners didn't have control over the dogs when the gardener was attacked and they obviously didn't have control over them again. The owners screwed up, people got hurt and the dogs paid the price. 

The other dogs involved were also German Shepherds. They were Congo's offspring.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

My blood is boiling. I cannot use the words I want to here or I'd get kicked off. I supported those people, I fought tooth and nail, I wrote letters, I made phone calls, I made friends write letters and make phone calls. I am so angry that the dogs had to pay with their lives. When can we start euthanizing stupid owners.

I am sorry if this is too strong and I understand if it gets deleted or I get yelled at. I am beyond angry.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Wow, I am really confused. What was the name of the dog whose life was saved and then was rehomed because the man had a heart attack shortly after the dog's life was spared? I thought that was the same dog. Because the same thing happened in that case! 

Really sad outcome for all of the dogs.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66My blood is boiling. I cannot use the words I want to here or I'd get kicked off. I supported those people, I fought tooth and nail, I wrote letters, I made phone calls, I made friends write letters and make phone calls. I am so angry that the dogs had to pay with their lives. When can we start euthanizing stupid owners.
> 
> I am sorry if this is too strong and I understand if it gets deleted or I get yelled at. I am beyond angry.


I understand how you feel, Jen. I'm right there with you.


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## reiner (Jan 29, 2004)

Was Congo even involved in this attack? I havent read all the articles yet, but it looks like they havent said which ones. I honestly feel the owners are to blame and not the dogs. To begin with, they sent the dogs clear cross country for training. There are several REALLY good trainers here in NJ where you can go WITH your dog!!! Second, if it were my dogs, I sure would be super certain that I didnt put them in jeopardy by taking any chances with them. There HAD to be clues that the pack was taking over... I find it hard to believe this is the first epidode!!!


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## reiner (Jan 29, 2004)

okay.. I just found this article:
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080618/NEWS01/80618041

this says that the dogs DID not attack.. the jumped on her and knocked her down. Supposedly he had them PTS because he knew the town would make him anyway.

I wonder what the truth really is???


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## wsumner26 (Jan 27, 2006)

> Quote: these dogs' owners were not responsible individuals.


*My thoughts exactly!!! *
















Sweet pups. I am sorry.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Actually it says:

_Congo and three other German shepherds jumped on Constance Ladd on Tuesday afternoon, causing her to fall as she left Elizabeth James' house, according to Princeton Township police. The 75-year-old had puncture wounds and lacerations to her forearm, chest and head, police said, and she complained of pain in her hip.
Police said it was not clear which dog or dogs caused the bites, but David Henry, the local regional health officer, said it may have been all four.
James' husband, Guy, notified police the dogs had been euthanized Wednesday morning.
"It was a tragic end to a tragic situation," Henry said, adding that it was the family's decision to have Congo, Lucia, Hunter and Bear euthanized.
A call to the listing for the James family rang unanswered Wednesday, but Guy James told The Times of Trenton the incident "wasn't an attack at all. It was dogs jumping."
"I don't want people who were supportive of Congo (after last year's landscaper mauling) to think they were supporting a bad dog," Guy James told The Times, which first reported that Congo had been euthanized.
Guy James said his mother-in-law forgot the dogs were there when she went outside.
"They wanted to come into the house, heard the door knob open and they jumped up," he said.
According to The Times, Guy James said he thought the local animal control officer, Mark Johnson, would push to have the dogs euthanized, and that's the only reason he put them down._

I am really angry at the owners now. Not for euthanizing the dogs, but for thinking that people are that ignorant to believe that his mother-in-law would have that many puncture wounds from being knocked down. 
He is back peddling, trying to avoid any future lawsuit, and probably being dropped by his home owner's insurance and using the ACO as a scapegoat saying he would have fought to have the animals euthanized after this incident.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Reinerokay.. I just found this article:
> http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080618/NEWS01/80618041
> 
> this says that the dogs DID not attack.. the jumped on her and knocked her down. Supposedly he had them PTS because he knew the town would make him anyway.
> ...


Then what caused this?


> Quote:The 75-year-old had puncture wounds


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## reiner (Jan 29, 2004)

I have no idea of what happened, and agree, the "puncture wounds" sound awfully suspect, BUT I also know from many other dog related incidents that older people have thinner skin and the puncture could have been from the nails. I dont know how deep these are and if they are bite punctures, but from everything written it sure sounds like he was hoping not to have to answer any questions!! I think he really thought no one would really find out, since he euth'd them before he even told animal control!!! 

This guy deserves to be grilled for answers! HE did all these dogs wrong and should be accountable!


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ReinerHE did all these dogs wrong and should be accountable!


AMEN!!!!!!!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Boy, I cannot remember where I stood on this. I was not against the illegal, I remember that. I was pretty ticked that the owners would allow their animals to get loose. I thought they were pretty irresponsible at the time, and thought they shouldn't get their dogs back. 

However, our dogs may not tell the difference between a gardener and a burglar, especially if the gardener is afraid of the dogs. 

Packs take more work, more vigilence, more experience. 

Now these GSDs have been nabbed for yet another attack. This is really bad for our breed. And how frightening for the mother? Fending off one GSD would be horrible, three or four? 

I am kind of glad the guy followed through and euthanized the poor dogs. It was not their fault -- the dogs, but what else can you do with them now? Rescues wont take them. They are not stable enough to do any type of job, not without plenty of work. These people have no business owning a foo foo dog. 

RIP Congo and Crew. 

I cannot imagine taking several of the dogs raised and bred and kept to be euthanized. It would be like cutting off a part of myself. Even if it was the right thing to do, it could not have been easy. Lets hope this guy is broken up enough to be done with the breed and dogs in general and not just hardened by it. 

Packs are different. I have eight and do not let them run in a pack. Only occasionally do I let a male and female out together. I figure I am just not a good enough alpha to let my whole crowd run together. But I always feel a bit nervous when I hear of people who do let four or more dogs run together. This guy's pups were pretty well grown in the first incident 8 or 10 months old. Now they have to be well over a year. Allowing them to run together like that requires a great leader and well-trained dogs.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Just sounds like idiot owners failed the dogs. So sad.......


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

_"Boy, I cannot remember where I stood on this. I was not against the illegal, I remember that. I was pretty ticked that the owners would allow their animals to get loose. I thought they were pretty irresponsible at the time, and thought they shouldn't get their dogs back."_
I am glad you mentioned the gardener. I was thinking last night that this latest tale of how the dogs jumped on the mother and that is how she received her "punctures," pretty much makes the first story a bit suspect, if you ask me. I mean, think about it, there was only the word of the wife who said the gardener pulled her down in an effort to shield himself from the dogs. He said he didn't do that. And, we believed her. And now, the owner said he euthanized the dogs because the ACO would have made life unbearable anyway. How many people do you know would euthanize their dogs after an "accidental" knockdown because the door opened and they were trying to get in the house. 
Plus, I read in one of the news reports that the dogs were outside during the first attack because they were eating. Again, how many people feed a pack of dogs outside without kennels. Why were they not fed inside?
I certainly hope that all the people who stood valiantly beside this family and fought for Congo's life, now go with as much vigor after this owner and find out the real truth. This man needs to answer for what he as done. He needs to stop the lies and take responsibility for his actions and inactions. 
I truly hope everything is not just swept under the table because the dogs have passed over to the bridge.


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## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

http://www.nj.com/news/times/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1213848365151320.xml&coll=5

Here's this mornings article. Makes me sorry I supported the family. Their story just doesn't jive with the injuries. I guess we can debate this forever and really never know what happened. We weren't there. I know I let my love of GSDs cloud my thinking but in this case, based on today's article, I feel the humans were at fault.

Mr. James say, "they were jumping at the door as dogs do"....seems like something you can train them to NOT do. 

When the elderly woman was on the ground, the piled on top of her - why?? Is that a natural reaction? I know when DH plays with Gracie, he will sometimes lay flat on the floor and cover his head with his arms. She will force her muzzle under his ear and turn him over, as if to save him.

The ACO claims since they didn't know which animal did the biting, he would not have demanded euthanasia. Is he just saying that because the dogs were already put down?

They were euthanized at Princeton Animal Hospital -- I had considered going there for a job....I am SO glad I didn't; I could never have handled that. I had enough trouble the other day when we had to put an Akita down who bit family members. In my mind, I had to justify it by thinking there was something neuroloigcally wrong with the dog and that's what made it agressive.

We all love our dogs and want to see our breed positively represented. Unfortunately, it seems the James family was not in our corner!


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: selzerBoy, I cannot remember where I stood on this. I was not against the illegal, I remember that. I was pretty ticked that the owners would allow their animals to get loose.


I was thinking the same thing. I don`t remember my thought but it would be fun to use our 20/20 hindsight now. Anybody have a link to the old thread.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Gosh this is sad, and yet I'm not at all surprised. I always supported the dogs, but I had bad feelings about this when it came up originally. I guess I'm one of the minority that still does not believe it's appropriate for a dog to attack people coming onto my property, or do anything besides sit and wait until I say so. I guess it largely depends on the situation. I live in a rental property and share an unfenced yard with other renters and children from next door. I simply cannot have dogs that feel intruders are threats. It seems in this situation these dogs were never properly trained or socialized and the owners had little control, exaggerated by the false perception that the dogs were doing good by "protecting" them. Who knows....maybe all they were doing was trying to play too rough, but when a GSD tries to play rough with an elderly woman the result is not pretty.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: ebrannan...
> Plus, I read in one of the news reports that the dogs were outside during the first attack because they were eating. Again, how many people feed a pack of dogs outside without kennels. Why were they not fed inside?


Personally I see nothing wrong with this since the Hooligans eat outdoors without kennels. We started doing this a few years ago when Kelly started seeing "ghosts" inside and would run and jump in the bathtub every time a meal was served. He lost a lot of weight, I thought he had a brain tumor, but he didn't ... never could figure out why he got this bizzare behavior trait. I started feeding them outside and he's been eating fine ever since. BUT I monitor their meal time to ensure no one gets into each others bowls.

To be honest, even when Kel goes to the Bridge I think I'll continue the outdoor feedings, it's a lot easier and doesn't mess up the house with dropped food.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

I know I was riled about all the support an illegal alien was recieving, and debated on THAT heavily. I supported the owner in the sense I believed him. Now? Well, I will go out on a limb and say that the owner failed these dogs the moment he got them, be it through purchase or breeding. I doubt that someone like him could have rehabilitated these dogs, because the amount of work required is something he wouldn't have been willing to do.


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## cafrhe (Nov 4, 2002)

I do remember where I stood originally. I could not keep a dog capable of such a sustained attack. I do not believe the landscapers provoked an attack. I believe there was an unfortunate miscommunication. I believe the owners were/are incredibly ignorant about dogs and incredibly irresponsible to allow their dogs to run in a pack. I do believe that it was pack mentality plus some instability in the dogs that led to the attack.

I cannot believe that the owners didnt learn anything from the first attack. I cannot believe that those dogs were still running in a pack. They should have been separated and controlled. Even if it was just Congo who was controlled more, he seemed to be the 'leader'.

And again with these owners--it is a "He said, She said" situation--the hospital says--"Obvious dog bites", owner says "Dogs absolutely didnt bite". Personally I find the owners lacking in credibility.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

"I spoke with Guy James yesterday about what happened with Congo and he told me that the police report was not correct that his mother in law had not been bitten , that she got scratched and that because of her age her skin was like paper and tore when they jumped on her in excitement . I have to say I have seen this happen so it is certainly believable .
I asked him to write me a story to send to other GSD people, so that the world would know the truth of what happened . He was very devastated, so he had another person that has been involved send me the letter below . "

"Unfortunately, Mrs. James mother, Mrs Ladd had an encounter with Congo and 3 of his family when she opened up a back door. The dogs were waiting to come in, and as the dogs were jumping all over her in excitement....Mrs james went to push her Mother out of the way and Mrs Ladd fell. In no way was Mrs Ladd being "attacked" as the media just loves to put it....once more, drama again..



Whatever happened , it happened, and it is what it is......



But I just want to share with you why Guy James felt he had to have his pets put down....



It was the most humane thing he could do for them, otherwise Congo, Lucia and the 2 pups would get locked up and never get out with the outcome the same. Mr James would rather tell why he made that decision himself and the pain of that decision is enormous. He stayed with all 4 of his dogs while they were being put down.....I can't even imagine what pain that man suffered. Afterwards, he had to go home and tell his children what he had to do. 



And later to read other people's outrageous postings.......who just wanted to laugh, poke fun, make the worst of comments and could care less about anything else but their own ignorance and how to be disgusting with some one else's pain. 



The James Family has shown responsibility with Congo and their canine family. What happened yesterday was a tool for Princeton Township and the unrelenting animal control officer to gain on. The entire incident was not as bad as it would have seemed if it had not been enhanced by so much negativity toward this family and their pets. 



Congo, Lucia and their family are gone now and gone for good. What a shame it had to come to this with so much misunderstanding. May the James Family now find their peace on their own as they have their own personal pain to deal with also.



Thank you ,



Diana Gerace

Lawrenceville, NJ"


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2008)

Whatever else may be said if they had trained the dogs there would never have been an issue. Even if they had properly contained them there would not have been an issue. Both faults lie squarely with the owners. The fact that after the incident with the landscaper that they did nothing to prevent this from recurring shows rather clearly how utterly irresponsible they were.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Geez I don't think I could put down my dogs just based on rumors. I think I'd just move somewhere else... Of course, when GSDs are involved people always assume the worse.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: GSDadWhatever else may be said if they had trained the dogs there would never have been an issue. Even if they had properly contained them there would not have been an issue. Both faults lie squarely with the owners. The fact that after the incident with the landscaper that they did nothing to prevent this from recurring shows rather clearly how utterly irresponsible they were.


I agree. I'm sure it's true they did not "attack" the old woman (my grandma has very thin skin from steriods she takes for RA, even bumping her gives her a oozing bruise and MRSA infection), but that doesn't account for the original incident. I don't think the dogs are vicious, but just b/c a dog does not intend to injure does not mean it won't, even unintentionally. I was a "victim" of a large untrained dog releasing all his energy and stress on the left side of my body and everyone who saw my arm told me I should demand the dog be euthanized but I did not. Instead, the shelter had him work with two different trainers and a behaviorist before he was adoptable. A large dog that knows no boundaries can most certainly be dangerous to humans regardless of whether it "attacks".


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: myamom
> 
> The James Family has shown responsibility with Congo and their canine family. What happened yesterday was a tool for Princeton Township and the unrelenting animal control officer to gain on. The entire incident was not as bad as it would have seemed if it had not been enhanced by so much negativity toward this family and their pets.


Omg please someone sit on my hands!

Responsibility??? This was irresponsibility at it's finest!

I remember MY position on this whole Congo issue and I was RIGHT! I knew it would happen again and you hate to say that it did BUT I was ticked off that this gardener (no matter where he was from!) was BLAMED for being attacked by a pack of dogs! Now this elderly woman that the dogs KNEW is injured.

I knew better, people argued and supported the James'....the James' disgust me and I will not apologize for that. They are horrid irresponsible dog owners that made their dogs pay for there stupidity, lack of accountability and lack of responsibility! They have caused harm to OUR BREED and they deserve NO sympathy, concern or support for any of this.

I said this would happen! I knew it would!







Now an elderly woman has to deal with the injuries, the children have to suffer and AGAIN these people are using tons of excuses! I hope they never, ever own a dog again as they do not deserve one and certainly do NOT deserve to ever have one of our beloved GSDs ever again!

And this moron called himself a "breeder"......

grrrrrrrrrr










Poor dogs.... may Congo and his family (his mate and their puppies) rest in peace now









Cherri


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## Dohhhhh (May 1, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: ClareI dont know the details but does anyone else think poor training was involved in this?
> 
> Just my two cents


I agree but would go further to say that I do not feel there was ANY training involved. Dog101: if you have a pack you HAVE to have a strong leader. I would venture to say this family either did not have that established or they CLEARLY were not the leaders.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Mary Ann, 
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but by passing his sob story around, you are, in my eyes, passing around propaganda. 
So, let me get this straight. During the first attack, the gardener was the liar, and the ACO was out to get him. 
Now, the owner states that the POLICE report was wrong, the ACO would have gotten him anyway, the media is out to get him, the township people are out to get him and all those horrible e-mails he has received has just been too much for him.
I guess if anyone ever gets a hold of the hospital report (doubt it), he'll say they were wrong also. 
Geesh


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

I have to agree with Liz. In characterising a family that was not in control of their dogs as "responsible", the only conclusion one can reach is that the dogs themselves - and their breed - is to blame. This plays directly into the hands of those who support breed specific legislation and breed bans.

I am saddened by the fact that when something like this happens - and by that I mean the PREVIOUS attack - the owners are not forced to attend training sessions as part of the resolution to the problem.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Liesje...
> I'm sure it's true they did not "attack" the old woman (my grandma has very thin skin from steriods she takes for RA, even bumping her gives her a oozing bruise and MRSA infection), but that doesn't account for the original incident.
> ...


I feel that the police, animal control officers, hospital officials can tell the difference between animal bites and puncture wounds versus damage done due to falling or from a dog's nails. Just because she's old doesn't mean she has "thin skin", but even if she does, these experts should easily be able to tell the difference between bites and other types of wounds. My mother also had "thin skin" caused by steroids and regardless of the way she injured herself, she never looked like she was mauled by a dog.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ebrannanMary Ann,
> I'm sorry to disagree with you, but by passing his sob story around, you are, in my eyes, passing around propaganda.
> So, let me get this straight. During the first attack, the gardener was the liar, and the ACO was out to get him.
> Now, the owner states that the POLICE report was wrong, the ACO would have gotten him anyway, the media is out to get him, the township people are out to get him and all those horrible e-mails he has received has just been too much for him.
> ...


Right because no one's opinions and beliefs are EVER formed by the media, right?
Please. I understand you believe the owner was at fault, for the record I do too, but let's not act like the media NEVER, EVER made the whole world turn against someone unfairly.


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## Shandril2 (Nov 26, 2003)

Sounds like pack mentality. I can't say I could handle those dogs, but geeze .... makes you wonder about the temperment they were allowed to have!


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

WAIT A MINUTE. That certainly was not fair. I received a cross post...and posted it here. I thought people would like to see EVERYTHING that is out there...including the statement put out by the family...THAT IS ALL. By me posting this...does not put my stamp of approval on it...or my endorsement...or make it my point of view. Just posting info that I get...so people can make informed decisions...have all the information...have educated conversations...period. 

(btw-it was not I that contacted this family...as I said...this is a cross post going around...sheesh)


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

...and for the record...this story is very upsetting to me...and I too agree this was a very irresponsible family


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Then, let me be the first to say, "I'm sorry, Mary Ann." 
I assumed, by the way the post looked that you were the one who contacted the family. So, I just totally lived up to what we all know the word, "assume" really means. 
Again, I'm sorry.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Thank you friend









(I can see how it looked that way too)


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

> Quote:So, let me get this straight. During the first attack, the gardener was the liar, and the ACO was out to get him.
> Now, the owner states that the POLICE report was wrong, the ACO would have gotten him anyway, the media is out to get him, the township people are out to get him


Yep, its everyone elses fault. Even this time


> Quote:Guy James said his mother-in-law forgot the dogs were there when she went outside.


 So it must have been her fault. 

Unfortunately he still doesn't get that he was at fault and that he needs to take responsibility for his dog's actions. 

Cherri, I remember that you and I were in the minority last time Congo and the James were discussed. I hope he is barred from having more dogs.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: DrDoom
> Right because no one's opinions and beliefs are EVER formed by the media, right?
> Please. I understand you believe the owner was at fault, for the record I do too, but let's not act like the media NEVER, EVER made the whole world turn against someone unfairly.


Yeah you mean like the gardener that was torn apart and blamed for being attacked by these dogs? Or....did you mean the James'?? You could not possibly mean these people that continually duck the blame of anything and everything, blame everyone else for their lack of responsibility and blame others for all of this and claim to be victims?? You do not mean them I hope??

Cherri


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ninhar
> 
> Cherri, I remember that you and I were in the minority last time Congo and the James were discussed. I hope he is barred from having more dogs.


Yep, we were.

It was all the gardener's fault and more so because he was an undocumented worker (what that had to do with him being bitten I am still trying to figure out.) that he was mauled by 4 dogs, got 96 bites, was in the hospital for quite a while and has been left with scars all over his body.

****, this board fried me for my sister's dog nipping the neighbor on the leg that left a small wound and a bruise for crying out loud! People actually wanted me to put Isaac down and claimed HE was dangerous....but the same people wanted Congo to LIVE. But I could not believe how many were blaming this man for being attacked by these dogs and seeing the James' as the victims.....unreal!

The ACO was against them, the Judge, the township, the gardener....the whole world....yeah Okay....

Cherri


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

Holy mackerel, I didn't really follow the first story. The gardener received 96 bites? OMG, that poor man. 
That simply shows right there that the owners' had no control over the dogs. That attack was a prolonged attack for that many bites. 
And the neighbors rallied for the dogs? Heck, if I lived there and my children were friends with the James' children, for their own safety, I would never allow them to go over to the house again. 
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. These people really shouldn't ever own any type of animal again.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

Mary Ann - I didn't think you were endorsing the email - but posting a disclaimer might have been useful.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

Nobody dug up the original thread?


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: kutzro357Nobody dug up the original thread?


Must have been purged when the board changed a few months ago. All I could find was the link I posted above...


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ddMary Ann - I didn't think you were endorsing the email - but posting a disclaimer might have been useful.


You don't think the quotation marks and the signature block were enough? Why would offering information automatically be seen as endorsing it?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Wow, I tried to bring up the original thread because I felt I was in the minority on that one too. But I couldn't find it. 

I read the letter from the confidant of poor Mr. James. Nothing about this guy rings true. The guy put his dogs outside, knowing the landscapers were coming and then took a shower. Or he yelled out the door something at them and went in to take a shower. I guess the wife was out roaming the neighborhood looking for one of the missing pack members and came back and all **** broke loose. So the guy fights and fights and finally gets them to drop all the charges against the dogs. 

Now the old relative gets wounded by the pack. If this was rambunctious puppies knocking over an old dame, do ya think they would put the lot down??? I look at my mom. If she was at my house and my dogs knocked her over requiring a visit to the ER, she would tell the ER that she fell over a dog and there would be NO problems with AC. If the woman was scratched, or even broke a hip in the fall, no one would euthanize dogs for that. 

A guy that would sit there and watch while four of his animals are put down needlessly is a monster. I do not think he is a monster. I think he is a liar, an ignorant fool, and a irresponsible dog owner. I think he put the dogs down because he was over his head with aggression issues and knew it was only a matter of time before it happened again. 

I wonder how many months will pass before he tries again, and I wonder which will be the lucky breed, Great Danes? Labradores? Collies?


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

"If they had trained the dogs".

But the kicker is some of us, perhaps including yourself could have properly trained these dogs.

As a rescue guy I have yet to take a dog described as mean and aggressive, that would not settle and be fine in my home.

And yes, the owners are at fault, not the dogs.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2008)

Yep, I have properly trained dogs with issues many times now. You're right, the dogs could've been saved and properly trained. The owners could've surrendered the dogs to a rescue most certainly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Is there really a rescue out there that would take a dog that bit a landscaper 96 times? And then was implicated in an attack on an elderly family member? 

Maybe the puppies could have been turned over to a rescue and saved. 

The problem is that most rescues are overloaded with dogs that whose worst crime is playing in their water dish, or getting old, or being sick. Many of them are terrified of the consequences of placing a dog with an aggressive background in a new home. There really aren't any set of standards when it comes to rescues, some require the dog be evaluated by a trainer or behaviorist, some want the dog to be fostered for a while, others try to match dog to owner as quick as possible.

Then too there are not an unlimited supply of people who feel ready and able to adopt ANY GSD. The number of people willing and able to adopt dogs like these are few and far between. Then too is the fact that IF these dogs screw up again, we have yet another bite/attack attributed to our breed. I really am sorry but with all the BSL, I do not know if we can afford to keep truly aggressive dogs around to bite and bite and bite again. 

Every time a GSD bites someone and they seek medical treatment that bite is entered into he database. So if there are 4 million GSDs registered and 400 bites attributed to GSDs in any year, you can say that .01% of GSDs will bite. But this is not how insurance company and local legislaters look at it. They will say any breed that has more than 100 bites attributed to it has to be put on the list or banned. Then too, it is possible that nearly half of the bites were committed by dogs that had a second or multiple previous bites, so now you have only 300 or less GSDs out of a sea of GSDs, but it really doesn't matter. (disclaimer: all my statistics are complete garbage, pulled out of the air and only used to illustrate a point.)


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2008)

As I recall that number of 96 bites is _alleged_ I don't see it proven anywhere. Seriously, think about it, 96 bites from a GSD? The man would be in pieces.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

If you saw the photos, the man looked pretty bad and had severe enough injuries that he was in the hospital for a few days.

Apart from that, no responsible rescue would touch those dogs. I don't even know why people would suggest it, other than they have the wrong impression of what rescue does. Congo should have been euthanized after the attack on the gardener.


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## cafrhe (Nov 4, 2002)

He was in the hospital for 5 days, had 3 hrs of surgery and 65 rabies shots (dogs were not up to date on shots).

I dont know where the number of bites info came from, but I think the main point is that this man was mauled, not just bitten.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2008)

Okay, let's drop Congo and for the sake of argument his mate as well. What about the puppies? Did they have to die too?


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

Who knows if they had to or not. This wasn't a case where he was ordered to euthanize them, he did it himself (and of course blamed the ACO for that decision). I will venture that as they were now about 1 1/2 years old, and most likely had minimal training and socialization that they would be a lot of work to rehab.


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## cafrhe (Nov 4, 2002)

My thought is that without Congo, the pups (and maybe mate) wouldn't have engaged. 

I really dont understand the owner euthanizing all 4 dogs if they only jumped on the grandma......he didnt even wait to see what A/C would do.


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## ebrannan (Aug 14, 2006)

I venture to guess that he didn't wait because they did more than just jump on grandma. 
The guy is a flat-out liar and is doing whatever possible at this point to avoid any future lawsuits. 
I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth. 
I feel for the grandma. She is probably being railroaded by her daughter and son-in-law to keep quiet about the events. I hope she has other family members she can talk to. It must have been extremely scary for her and she needs to talk about it to help her heal. Think about it, a 75-year-old woman with a broken pelvis? Bites to the head, chest, scratches? The poor thing. 
As far as the pups? Again, no reputable rescue would touch them. The best place for them is where they are, in heaven. Rescues just don't have the extreme long-term resources these pups would have needed for a complete rehab. There would have been a lot of learned behavior to overcome. 
I also think the gardener deserves a public apology from some of the stronger voices that rallied for the dog.
The whole thing just makes me sick.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ninharWho knows if they had to or not. This wasn't a case where he was ordered to euthanize them, he did it himself (and of course blamed the ACO for that decision).


Right, that was why I mentioned them. We KNOW he had the PTS himself. That was quite clear. My opinion is that the pups certainly could've been rescued. 1.5 years? Do we know that? Seems a bit older than my guess of 6 - 10 months. Even at 1.5 years they were within being rehabilitated age, again IMO.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

As they were part of a pack that attacked a woman, it would still be risky for a rescue to take them on. Whether or not they could be rehabbed. If those pups bit someone at a later date, it could come back to haunt the rescue. When you take in dogs you have to look at the big picture, could this dogs background cause possible loss of insurance in the future which can be death for an organization.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: GSDadAs I recall that number of 96 bites is _alleged_ I don't see it proven anywhere. Seriously, think about it, 96 bites from a GSD? The man would be in pieces.


It was 3 GSDs and his lawyer stated that is what the hospital exam showed. Does it really matter if is were 12 bites or 96 bites though?? The man was mauled by a pack of out of control dogs.

Cherri


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: cafrhe
> 
> I really dont understand the owner euthanizing all 4 dogs if they only jumped on the grandma......he didnt even wait to see what A/C would do.


I found that strange too. They fought so hard for an actual attack. But for an "accidental injury" that they could maybe proove through testimony from the MIL he euths all 4 dogs? Guy James was also not present for this last incident, his wife was.

I think it was another attack and although I agree they loved their dogs...they knew that it would be impossible to fight this a second time. This happened at 5pm....in the wee hours of the morning a court order was issued for photos to be taken of the *bite wounds* to the MIL. It seems after that happened Mr James decided to kill his pack.....as they were put to death at approx 7am I believe.....

Cherri


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## cafrhe (Nov 4, 2002)

I dont know if anyone linked this yet

http://www.nj.com/timesoftrenton/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1213848365151320.xml&coll=5

It does mention that the owner said the pups were 1.5yrs old.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

Or his wife said enough is enough after they attacked her mother.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: EastGSD
> Yeah you mean like the gardener that was torn apart and blamed for being attacked by these dogs? Or....did you mean the James'?? You could not possibly mean these people that continually duck the blame of anything and everything, blame everyone else for their lack of responsibility and blame others for all of this and claim to be victims?? You do not mean them I hope??
> 
> Cherri


You missed my point. You are right. They are bad owners. I seem to remember agreeing with that point. And to answer your question, yes! JUST like the gardner. My pooint was that the media can turn everyone against anyone. It is, IMO, to be completely ignored whenever possible.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The puppies had a double whammy. They had their father's genetics and were raised in the same environment. So if their father's aggression was due to poor breeding and environment or environment and poor breeding or one or the other, the puppies were doomed. 

By a year and a half and being participants in the pack frenzy, not once, but twice, these pups would not be safe for anyone to take on but the most experienced dog owners. Because of their strong pack background, they would be best placed in a home with no other animals. How do you find the most experienced dog owner that does not own any dogs? 

I feel bad for every one of those pups, and that includes Congo. Congo is the same age as my Rushie, and Rushie is really a big puppy. I am not usually whimpy about stuff like that. Boys take longer to mature and I think male GSDs take three years or so to go from puppy to dog. 

I feel bad for the old woman. I do not feel bad for the owners. They brought this on themselves. And they continue to be stupid about it. 

The dogs are not suffering though. And these particular dogs will not bite any one else. I think charges should be filed against the owners of the dogs though.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

i saw this and could not believe my eyes!!!! it is posted up on my pug site because they all know on there that i own a gsd. you know some people just don't have a flippen clue when it comes to different breeds and how to handle them. i work at a pet nutrition center and we have people constantly asking us advice because their dogs are ill behaved. when we tell them that they have to assert their dominant or alpha position over the dogs, they say "oh, i can't be that way to foo foo"!!! now if you get a gsd and it has aggressive tendencies to begin with and you go ahead and treat it like a







tzu and let it to it's own devices, what do you expect? Storm just turned one today and he has showned aggressive tendencies since a young pup growling at the vet. i took him to an ex canine cop with 45 years experience and it is constant work but now know how to deal with a over protective gsd. although a luver to my friends, family and my children's friends, don't come too close when i have him out for a walk if you are a stranger. typical gsd behavior for some, but i certainly wouldn't let just anybody walk into the house like say to do work because i know he has the potential to bite. 

just more idiot dog owners and the poor animal pays the price. so senseless.......i'm wondering if they are like these puppymills. mass producing pups without any knowledge or know how??!!


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: DrDoom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: EastGSD
> ...


Oh ok my bad, sorry







I totally agree with you and rarely accept anything the media says as factual....

Cherri


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: selzerThe puppies had a double whammy. They had their father's genetics and were raised in the same environment. So if their father's aggression was due to poor breeding and environment or environment and poor breeding or one or the other, the puppies were doomed.


Actually I recollect that Congo was a well bred dog, German working lines possibly Czech....

I do not think these were bad dogs at all....I think they were mismanaged and these idiots caused their death







It is never proper to blame a dog for being a dog, more often than not it is us people that cause the problem in our animals but, they pay the price









Cherri


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

EastGSD, I suppose if the owners were trying to train the dog to be an attack/protection dog, and did not know what they were doing at all, this could have caused the behavior in Congo. However, the environment has to be really bad to make a well-bred dog with no genetic nerve problems to attack like this twice, unless he was being trained to do so. That is just an opinion though. 

While ignorant, I do not picture these people as the type that would starve, beat, and chain their dogs to ruin them. I just have a hard time believing that a perfectly stable GSD could visciously attack once and then bite a family member several times. Many ordinary GSDs do not attack even if they are starved, beaten, and chained. I think we see that with rescued dogs a lot. I would think that a well-bred shepherd with decent nerves should be able to overcome some stupidity on the part of the owners. I can see them biting someone mistakingly once or twice, but not mauling. 

CrazyaboutGSDs, I am a little concerned. Usually puppies growling at a vet is out of fear not aggression. A fearful dog does not need to be dominated, or punished, it needs to be carefully socialized. But I have no idea how old your dog was when it growled at the vet. Even a soft or fearful dog will benefit from NILIF type leadership, so I am not saying you are wrong. But it almost sounds like you were thinking you need to dominate a pup for growling. 

Welcome to the board. I think pugs are neat, but I have never owned one. I certainly agree that you cannot treat small dogs as something other than dogs and expect to have a normal, happy pup.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

selzer, storm was 9 weeks old or so when growling at the vet. i am glad for your worry, but thankfully everything worked out nicely. i do not believe in cruelty or domination when training. i think maybe you misinterpreted my post. although i do believe that dogs need an alpha leader, positive reinforcement, frequent socialization and obedience training are the key. i did take storm to obedience training because besides the growling, he was pulling on our walk and needed training. you are 100 percent right about the fear. it was totally fear with storm which caused the aggressive behavior. my trainer even agreed to that. long story short, storm is a big mush, but still when we are out on our walks, when approached, will growl and is protective. i took him to my son's soccer game and he fell asleep on the blanket he was so relaxed. he is starting to become more confident when in different environments. i still do not trust him with strangers and when i have to go in close contact with people like at training he is muzzled. his mother was fear aggressive and i did not find this out until i already fell head over heals in love with Storm. he is awsome with my other 4 dogs. i have a lab/shepherd mix, a golden retriever and 2 pugs. he is a gentle giant. but again, one has to be careful with a fear aggressive dog, so knowing this, i do what i have to do to prevent a potentially dangerous situation or a situation where storm can bite someone and god forbid we have to pay the consequences. on one hand the protectiveness of him does make me feel at ease when home alone. my husband leaves the house at 3 a.m. every morning for work and leaves me alone with my 2 small children. on the other hand, i always have the fear in the back of my mind when i read these stories like OMG what would i ever do if storm bit someone and i had to be in a situation where i might lose him......i don't even want to think about it.......it upsets me too much. so like i said, i do what i can to socialize him but to the extent where i do not put people or other pets in jeopardy. 

selzer, you seem like a pro at gsd ownership, so any suggestions that you can make to help out with fear aggression would be most appreciated....


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: selzerEastGSD, I suppose if the owners were trying to train the dog to be an attack/protection dog, and did not know what they were doing at all, this could have caused the behavior in Congo. However, the environment has to be really bad to make a well-bred dog with no genetic nerve problems to attack like this twice, unless he was being trained to do so. That is just an opinion though.


Not really, the environment just has to be lax Selzer. If you have a dominant personality pup with strong working drives and put him in the wrong home with not enough leadership and the proper training this is what can happen. GSDs can be very territorial, if they are not taught properly how to control themselves and follow the direction of their respected pack leader people can and do get mauled when entering the dog's space. Dogs also can attack in a heightened, pack group that just has the energy escalate due to excitement....this is why Cesar Milan insists on calm, assertive pack leadership.... These dogs did not have to be poorly bred for this to happen and I hope that is not what people are thinking. Poor control is what causes things like this to happen.


Cherri


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

i agree with cherri. improper training and not showing enough leadership can cause breeds that are known to be teritorial and dominant to take control themselves. it all goes back to my post at how people get these breeds and as wonderful as they can be, are not for just any ole dog owner. i would not recommend certain breeds for novice or dog owners that lack in skills to have a very dominant or alpha prescence over a breed. like the frail little old lady that is going to have a hard time walking or training a large dominant breed should maybe think again before owning one. many people get these types of dogs for all the wrong reasons. some just don't bother to do their research and just like the majestic look of the breed. some try to treat certain breeds that top 80 pounds as lap dogs, and although you can do this to some, not all. it just all goes back to people who don't bother to take the time or do what they can to correct a problem when they have a situation with their animal. these owners were forwarned that these dogs had to be muzzled when out of their enclosure. if they would have taken the time to be careful with their animals, this could have been avoided, thus saving the dog's lives. i don't know the whole story here and certainly am not one to judge someone without even knowing them, but there are too many what if's and questions left unanswered with this story, i'm sorry. it's sooooo sad though that in the end the poor dogs had to die.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sorry, not an expert at fear-aggression or dog ownership at all. I am learning everyday. I have eight canine teachers, but I learn the most from the worst of the lot. 

I know dogs act differently in a pack situation, at least once the attack began the others join in, and they do not have to be bad dogs to do this. 

I guess I have only known GSDs that would bite once or twice and not any that continued to maul someone. Mostly, I find dogs bite when they feel they have no other alternative. That did not seem to be the case here. I have really no experience with working lines. What working lines Rushie has must be buried pretty deep because he is the most calm, laid back, dog I have met. Dubya is German show, and Arwen is a little more than half American bred and the rest German show. 

The only advice I can offer is my own experience in that I find that with a soft dog, being calm and patient, works wonders. I mean, the dog melts with harshness, so I have to be calm and patient, and set the dog up to succeed and then praise without over doing it. Also, as the dog buys into my being the leader, he gains confidence in my ability to hand problems and feels less protective and more confident himself. I find that training classes help my dogs to see me as the leader. 

I like being the leader and not the alpha. Not sure exactly what the difference is, whether it is semantics or what. I look at the Alpha as a "My Way or the Highway" type dictator who will withold food, water, pets, praise, unless the dog acts properly submissive and obeys instantaneously. I see a Leader as one who trains and guides and rewards good behavior while finding ways to make bad behavior less appealing. An alpha always has to be on their toes, they must eat first, they must give an invitation for the dog to get on the bed or on the couch if at all, they must call the dog over for pets. A leader can be a little more lax, giving the dog more freedom, but is constantly vigilent for his dog's safety. They can choose not to sweat the small stuff.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Crazyaboutgsds, my mom is a frail old lady who has a tough time walking to the car. But she owns Cujo who will be three in August. He is not working lines, but he is gigantic (88 pounds, 30+inches, huge ears) and energetic, and my mom can control him with her eyes and never raises her voice to the dog. 

Some frail old ladies have more leadership/alpha-type skills with their dogs than police officers do.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

hey selzer, i believe that one!!! i work at a pet nutrition and we have these huge guys come in to pick their dog up from grooming and i'm thinking okay, this guy must have a huge dog!!! then they come out with this little tiny lhasa apso or something. then these little old ladies who can barely make it to the car have this huge gsd!!! when i say frail old lady i mean more frail in tempermant then body structure. dominance and being alpha is a calm, assertive energy (not to sound like cesar milan) but it really is. it's a frame of mind that the dog picks up on. you don't have to be huge to pass this energy along. it's just tougher though if you have a dog that say is one of those that likes to pull you up the street. then it does help to be a bit stronger, but yea, i do know older woman personally who own gsd's because their husband's have died and they live alone and enjoy the protection and loyalty and one on one that one has when sharing a relationship with a gsd.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

sorry selzer, just read your definition between a leader and an alpha and i am def a leader. storm sits on the coach with me and comes up without being invited. i do spoil him and let him sleep in bed and all the good stuff. i do make him sit before i put his food bowl down, but other then that, by your definition, i guess i'm more leader then alpha. i'm not strict with Storm at all, in fact i'm the opposite.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not saying I am right about that, it is just my perception of the terms Alpha and Leader.


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

makes sense though. i do spoil my gsd a bit...can't help it...he's just too cute!!!! lol


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## song032005 (Dec 4, 2005)

i know im always late with jumping on threads but i would like to share my thoughts too.

my guesses and not stated facts....

one or more of the pups probably did harm to the elderly woman along with the adults, and why he probably put them all down. im thinking these dogs were probably outside in the heat, making them intense and them being all together sure as heck didnt help any. 

im willing to also bet he put them down because he doesnt want to be banned from owning dogs in the future, that would mess up his breeding plans to make money on dogs, which i think is where his interest lay and only there. 

he doesnt have a clue about dog behavior let alone any idea about what aggression is. hes probably one of those guys that thinks its prefectly normal to have a dog that growls when its eating and acts like it wants to rip someones head off, even a family member when they come for a visit. some folks really think just because their dog doesnt misbehave with their own family members there isnt a problem. until they get careless with the dogs and someone gets in their path that isnt part of their pack. and alot of folks still blame the dogs, not the owners. 

some other thoughts....

there just arent alot of people who put the time in to learn about the animals they keep in their home and make part of their family. i see it over and over and over again. the ones who do educate themselves before and during getting a pet are folks like you on this board [we utilize all the information available to us today], but its just not the majority. its a sad truth. things are just beginning to slowly change because more and more laws are being made for the safety of animals but we still have a very long way to go. i think when puppy mills are finally against the law and all the shelters in this country are only half full, thats when we will know things are really getting better for pets because that will tell us that the old way of folks owning/treating a pet is history and all pet owners will have to take 100% responsiblity or they wont own one.

im off my soapbox now. thanks for listening.

RIP congo and others


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## crazyboutdogs (Aug 26, 2007)

mommy2forest or angie, not sure what you go by on the board, i don't know what these people were in to really. it seems like byb's with money if you ask me. i work at a pet nutrition center and you would not believe how many people come in to the store and don't even know what their dogs eat!!! i'm like, how the heck do you not know what your dog eats for god's sake!! but it's the truth...some people just don't look to their canine friends as worth putting the time and effort into. like they are disposable property. when they tire of it or it doesn't live up to their expectations they get rid of it. it is really sad....


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That's kind of odd. I am the opposite. If I have the dogs with me, I stop at a restaurant, buy food that we can all eat, break it up between us, and feed them stuff like grilled chicken breast, bread, broccoli, cheese and potato. If I am alone and getting something for me, I will stop at the local ice cream parlor and have a hot dog and fried veggies. 

Hmmmmm.


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

I feel sorry for the elderly woman and the dogs....
The dogs shouldve been in kennels, packs can be dangerous I am just going by what Ive read.....mine was OK with my (then) fiances elderly aunt but she was always sitting down when we visited. When he was younger, he was pretty rambunctious I was afraid he might jump on her, etc/ yes, he jumped for it seemed like 2 yrs I tried everything I read to make him stop. I cant imagine handling a pack of rambunctios GSD's!! Unless I m very experienced like selzer, etc. Maybe Grandma screamed and set something off in the dogs? Anyways, I hope the womans Mother will recover OK. 
I dont know the people and I doubt if we will ever get the real story but RIP Congo and family. 
With a little precautions, this might never have happened and you think after what they went thru with Congo, they wouldve been extra careful. I hope they dont get anymore dogs....


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: JenM66
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ReinerHE did all these dogs wrong and should be accountable!
> ...


Oh Ya! Big time! If it was up to me I'd try for a hefty fine and <u>jail</u> time and NEVER letting him own a dog again!








This idiot not only endangered human lives, and he not only had the poor dogs destroyed. But he single handedly turned the clock back on all of us who own GSD's! 
Now there will be no second chances for wrongly accused dogs. It will more likely be a shoot first ask questions later. 
Homeowners insurance will drop polocies like leaves in the fall and IF they do let you keep your dog the rates are going to skyrocket, not to mention the restrictions that will be in place.
After all the hard work and dedecation most of us have put in to the training and socializing, with teaching our dogs to be ambassadors for the breed. Thanks A**hole! Now we are left to pick up the pieces and try to get some credability built back up.


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