# "Vick Would Be A Good Pet Owner" - HSUS President



## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

Does anyone else find it strange that Micheal Vick has become some what of a celebrity spokesperson for HSUS? Touring the country with HSUS President Wayne Pacelle giving talks to school children. And that Pacelle has defended Vick saying he deserves a second chance because "We are all sinners when it comes to animals, and we can all do better." (that can be found here:Redemption for a dogfighter - SFGate). He didn't think Vick's dogs deserved a chance though and HSUS urged the judge to kill them when Vick was arrested (that can be found [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/sports/football/01vick.html"]here:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/sports/football/01vick.html [/URL]).


It's really quite sad that this organization still gets so much of people's money 



"The convicted dogfighter and former Falcons quarterback was released from prison last year. He returned to football and has been enjoying stunning success with the Philadelphia Eagles.
He also has been touring schools across the country, telling children that he is reformed and that dogfighting is bad. But he is still living under a court-ordered ban on dog ownership.
Vick has critics who believe the ban should be permanent, but others say he can be a responsible pet owner.
"I have been around him a lot, and feel confident that he would do a good job as a pet owner," Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, told the AJC Wednesday.
Pacelle, who has toured schools with Vick, said the football player has committed to speaking publicly against dogfighting for the rest of his life."

Dog advocates disagree about whether Vick would be a good owner | ajc.com


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ummm...huh? :headbang:


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Yes, somehow it seems right to me. Good ol' Humane Wayne.


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

What he has done, as disgusting as it was, cannot be undone.

But there is power in a star professional athlete sending the message that he was wrong and animals deserve better treatment. In my view, his message can only help.. maybe an extra kid or two will not want to get involved, or other kids (I'm thinking girls..) would more likely call authorities if they learned about dog fighting in the area. 

So, as much as I find his actions past actions deplorable, I think it's a good thing to use his celebrity to educate and change minds, to whatever degree it can.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I saw this article today Michael Vick of Philadelphia Eagles says he'd like to own a dog someday - ESPN

Michael Vick, who *was banned *by the judge who sentenced him on dogfighting charges *from owning another dog while on probation*, *says he misses being a dog owner and would like to have one as a pet someday.*
_I wonder what he misses about being a pet owner_

The Eagles quarterback, interviewed by NBC News and the website TheGrio.com, said he and his family miss having a dog. He said he wants to show people that he can be a responsible pet owner and that he would not take the opportunity for granted. _Too bad he already did_

*"I would love to get another dog in the future. I think it would be a big step for me in the rehabilitation process,"* Vick said, according to NBC News and TheGrio.com. The full interview was scheduled to be shown on TheGrio.com on Wednesday. _How about instead he put in some time with rescues that pick up dogs from people like him_


"I have been around him a lot, and feel confident that he would do a good job as a pet owner," Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Wednesday.
_so Vick is willing to donate a lot of $$$ to the HSUS right_

*As part of Vick's probation, he can't buy, sell or own a dog. *
*Yay!!! :happyboogie:*
On Tuesday at a Philadelphia-area charter school, where Vick was speaking out against dogfighting, he was asked if he would return to the Eagles next season.
"I would hope so," Vick said, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. "A lot of things have to happen. A lot of things have to take place. ... But hopefully I'm a Philadelphia Eagle next season." 

Vick has led the Eagles to a share of the NFC East division lead and resurrected a career many thought was all but over after *he went to federal prison for funding a dogfighting ring.* The operation trained pit bulls to fight and killed dogs that did not perform well in training sessions.
Vick told NBC News and TheGrio.com. that he wants to show that that part of his past is behind him.
_So according to this he only funded dog fighting but had no active role in dog fighting or torture and killing of dogs_

"*I think just to have a pet in my household and to show people that I genuinely care, and my love and my passion for animals; I think it would be outstanding,"* Vick said in the interview. "If I ever have the opportunity again I will never take it for granted.
_Sure for his image it would be outstanding but it would be a lie, no one with compassion and love for animals could do what he did._

"*I miss having a dog right now. I wish I could. My daughters miss having one, and that's the hardest thing: Telling them that we can't have one because of my actions*," Vick said in the interview.
_Thats wonderful, now he can think before he does something of how his actions affect other people_


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

He has served his given punishment already and technically doesn't have to do anything else. He is voluntarily doing more. (I understand that it helps his image as much as the agenda, but still) Why would anyone ever object to him doing more to make sure that things like this don't happen again.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wish he would crawl into the woodwork where it comes to animals. Do I want him being the poster child fore HSUS? No way! Why? Because he is only getting there by giving them money and headlines. And he can generate plenty of both. I do not like HSUS. 

What he did is shameful, even if he only funded it. Parading it around and flaunting it is disgusting. Look at me, I am a x-drug addict, look at me I am an x-alcoholic, look at me I am an x-dog fighter. I am going to tell you NOT to do the things I have done. Because you do not want to end up a multi-million dollar quarterback who spent time in jail and came out to be a multi-million dollar quarterback.

How much better it would be to get a smelly, pee drenched, wino off of skid row, to say to the kids, "I was once like you guys. Yes, I sat in a desk like that one there. And I had homework, and buddies, and a family, and a future. But then I started drinking." 

Save the reformed Alcoholic for the prison support groups and AA meetings. I got my life back on track, so can you... 

How do kids BELIEVE, this is your life, this is your life on drugs; when guys like Vick walk out of jail and back into their former rolls, druggies in the NFL too. Ok, they did their time, they aren't good roll models, not everyone is. BUT, why push MV down our throats as some type of animal advocate? 

Let him spend his time on the football field while he still can, and leave the animal advocasy to people who were not involved in the most henous type of dog abuses.


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## MrsMiaW (Sep 25, 2010)

Michael Vick should never NEVER be allowed to own a dog, but I am sure as soon as he is off of probation, he will be "rescuing" a dog and the HSUS will have a whole campaign about it. I can see it now, "we gave Vick a second chance so he can give an abandoned dog a second chance." :angryfire:


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## novarobin (Oct 4, 2007)

I tend not to be the "throw the book at them" type of person. I get the idea of serving your time and allowing for a chance to be reformed, etc. But in this case, I can't support him owning a dog (aside from the whole HSUS aspect). I just can't see how one views a dog as a source of entertainment in such a cruel forum, that a dog is so inconsequential it can live or die merely for entertainment, then suddenly changes to view a dog as a pet. I get some people don't view dogs the way most of us on the forum do (not that I agree with it), that it isn't hard for them to see cruelty or suffering because it is only a dog. I just don't think that type of view changes easily. 

I completely agree with Sagelfn's post, particularly that he should work with rescues. 

Well said by Selzer.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Ucdcrush said:


> What he has done, as disgusting as it was, cannot be undone.
> 
> But there is power in a star professional athlete sending the message that he was wrong and animals deserve better treatment. In my view, his message can only help.. maybe an extra kid or two will not want to get involved, or other kids (I'm thinking girls..) would more likely call authorities if they learned about dog fighting in the area.
> 
> So, as much as I find his actions past actions deplorable, I think it's a good thing to use his celebrity to educate and change minds, to whatever degree it can.


 
i have said the same thing before. the net result of what he is doing NOW will surely be good for dogs.

if he wasnt doing it, all you would hear is "see, he doesnt care. he isnt doing anything to educate kids, etc...."


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## bunchoberrys (Apr 23, 2010)

...........And in other news Michael Vick said he would like to start raising chickens.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> I saw this article today Michael Vick of Philadelphia Eagles says he'd like to own a dog someday - ESPN


Since I live in the Philly area, this story is all over the news this morning. I'll admit, I was yelling at the tv and radio that he shouldn't have a dog.



novarobin said:


> I tend not to be the "throw the book at them" type of person. I get the idea of serving your time and allowing for a chance to be reformed, etc. But in this case, I can't support him owning a dog (aside from the whole HSUS aspect). I just can't see how one views a dog as a source of entertainment in such a cruel forum, that a dog is so inconsequential it can live or die merely for entertainment, then suddenly changes to view a dog as a pet. I get some people don't view dogs the way most of us on the forum do (not that I agree with it), that it isn't hard for them to see cruelty or suffering because it is only a dog. I just don't think that type of view changes easily.


This is exactly how I feel.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

The only reason Vick is doing all of this is to win back his fans and to keep his career. He is trying to fix is reputation so he can still play football and make money. 

He doesn't care about animals, he already proved it! He doesn't deserve another chance with animals. 

All animals want is to be loved and he was not capable of giving that to them, instead he showed them pain and hate.

He will never be a good person, hero or a role model IMO. :angryfire:


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Ucdcrush said:


> What he has done, as disgusting as it was, cannot be undone.
> 
> But there is power in a star professional athlete sending the message that he was wrong and animals deserve better treatment. In my view, his message can only help.. maybe an extra kid or two will not want to get involved, or other kids (I'm thinking girls..) would more likely call authorities if they learned about dog fighting in the area.
> 
> So, as much as I find his actions past actions deplorable, I think it's a good thing to use his celebrity to educate and change minds, to whatever degree it can.


Agreed. While what he did was despicable, he may be useful as a (BAD) example to save the lives of many dogs. Hopefully, the dirtbags with whom he consorted have stopped, and their friends, and their friends.....


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> He has served his given punishment already and technically doesn't have to do anything else. He is voluntarily doing more. (I understand that it helps his image as much as the agenda, but still) Why would anyone ever object to him doing more to make sure that things like this don't happen again.


I have not heard of any judgements that would release him from the probation that will last until 2012 if he completes it. There have been questionable incedents like him leaving his own birthday party shortly before a shooting incident involving a person who he is not allowed to be near.

Probation is not over until it is over.

He cannot own a dog until his probation is over. He can own other pets.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

He's not reformed he's jus sorry he got caught. If he had not been caught he would still be in the pit fighting busness torturing and killing those poor dogs. He does not deserve a snowballs chance in heck let alone a chance to tortcher some poor dog again. :angryfire:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ChristenHolden said:


> He's not reformed he's jus sorry he got caught. If he had not been caught he would still be in the pit fighting busness torturing and killing those poor dogs. He does not deserve a snowballs chance in heck let alone a chance to tortcher some poor dog again. :angryfire:


Christen, I couldn't agree more!


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

He should be happy that he is on probation rather than in prison. His probation end date is coming up so I don't see why he is trying to make it look like he is being mistreated when he is on probation. He has had too many breaks to complain.

On the less popular side. Even though I think he should have had a harsher sentance for his crimes. He may have thought of the dogs like livestock. I have no trouble eating a pig or sheep that I raised as livestock but a pet lamb or pig would be another thing entirely.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

kiwilrdg said:


> He should be happy that he is on probation rather than in prison. His probation end date is coming up so I don't see why he is trying to make it look like he is being mistreated when he is on probation. He has had too many breaks to complain.
> 
> On the less popular side. Even though I think he should have had a harsher sentance for his crimes. *He may have thought of the dogs like livestock. I have no trouble eating a pig or sheep that I raised as livestock but a pet lamb or pig would be another thing entirely*.


You dont abuse/torture livestock and you dont make livestock fight each other for money.


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## L_Dan (Mar 8, 2006)

You guys irritate me sometimes on issues like this.

Who better to talk about the horrors of dog-fighting than one who has been involved and recovered? How in the world do you know he has not repented and truely is sorry?

Can't a recovered alcoholic speak about alcoholism? Can't someone who has had an abortion speak of a renewed perspective?

So dog-fighting is illegal. Why isn't horse-racing wrong? They are hiked up on drugs and pushed to even death during a race. Do you come down on horse owners??? No, because it is legal to push a horse to its absolute limit.

What about dog-sled racing? Same canine species. Don't you want that competition stopped because dogs are abused and tortured, "trained" to death in some cases?

Get over your anger toward Vick. haven't you ever done anything wrong and realized later (maybe after getting caught)?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

L_Dan said:


> You guys irritate me sometimes on issues like this.
> 
> Who better to talk about the horrors of dog-fighting than one who has been involved and recovered? How in the world do you know he has not repented and truely is sorry?
> 
> ...


I do not agree with horse racing and dog racing. 

I do not see anything wrong with dog sledding though, the dogs are doing what they were bred to do, they are working and they enjoy working and running.

Alcoholism is completely different from dog fighting.

My dad is an alcoholic and he has never beat or tortured me, he hasn't killed me or forced me to fight for money. 

These dogs were chained, beaten, killed and forced to fight. This is violence. People who abuse/torture/kill animals usually go onto bigger things like abusing/torturing/killing people.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

I think it's too soon to be talking about him going into dog ownership again. When the probation is over, then talk about it.

But you know, if he really hated dogs, why would he want another one? 

I don't know what to say about whether or not he should ever own a dog again. We do all make mistakes and we change, but most of the people, say for instance hoarders, never torture and kill their dogs like that.

I think it's great that he's encouraging kids to not dog fight. The less dog fighting on the streets, the better and the easier it becomes for Animal Cops to stop dog fighting.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> You dont abuse/torture livestock and you dont make livestock fight each other for money.



I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with him, only that he might have another outlook on pets. It does not change the way I feel about dog fighting. 

I do hope he changed the way he feels about it.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Has anyone else seen the updates on his former dogs? I mean, seriously, maybe he should donate a lil help to the people who are now fighting the battles every day to deal with the problems he has caused. The one female with no teeth that cowers every time someone gets near her, and it takes the owners hours to get her to come out of the corner and stop shaking... what a punk.. I dispise him, and everyone that defends him.


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## valb (Sep 2, 2004)

Sort of puts me in mind of Heidi Montag, who recently said
she was sorry she had all the plastic surgery. Telling young
women not to do it. Well, yeah. But YOU still got to do it.

This miserable excuse for a "human being" got to do what he 
did for years. I always say, if it had JUST been the dog fighting
alone, bad as it was, MAYBE I could "forgive" him. But it was
so much more, the torture and the killing... no way. 

No more dogs the rest of his life. I, too, wish he would just go
back into the woodwork. We all spend too much time on him
that he doesn't deserve.

I don't blame those of you who back him, that's your opinion
and you are entitled to it. But not me, not ever. And I don't
think you should hate the rest of us for our opinions of this
lowlife. Disagree, yeah... but that's it.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

L_Dan said:


> You guys irritate me sometimes on issues like this.
> 
> Who better to talk about the horrors of dog-fighting than one who has been involved and recovered? How in the world do you know he has not repented and truely is sorry?
> 
> ...


Well said. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. We are sure to find out who is without sin real soon if we haven't already.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok then if you feel he's reforemed fine. Maybe he is but I don't buy it. BUT what if he was arrestied for molesting children or women. And after his probation he said I'm reforemed I see the error of my ways and I'm gunna teach kinergarden. Would you let him around your Kids jus cuz he said and seemed reformed NOT ME.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

ChristenHolden said:


> Ok then if you feel he's reforemed fine. Maybe he is but I don't buy it. BUT what if he was arrestied for molesting children or women. And after his probation he said I'm reforemed I see the error of my ways and I'm gunna teach kinergarden. Would you let him around your Kids jus cuz he said and seemed reformed NOT ME.


What a good question!


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

ChristenHolden said:


> Ok then if you feel he's reforemed fine. Maybe he is but I don't buy it. BUT what if he was arrestied for molesting children or women. And after his probation he said I'm reforemed I see the error of my ways and I'm gunna teach kinergarden. Would you let him around your Kids jus cuz he said and seemed reformed NOT ME.


The big difference? They weren't kids.

Lets be serious here. Do you think hunters keep all the deer dogs? What about the ones that have no interest in hunting?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

ChristenHolden said:


> Ok then if you feel he's reforemed fine. Maybe he is but I don't buy it. BUT what if he was arrestied for molesting children or women. And after his probation he said I'm reforemed I see the error of my ways and I'm gunna teach kinergarden. Would you let him around your Kids jus cuz he said and seemed reformed NOT ME.


IMHO molesting children/women is an illness that can't be cured and should result in lifelong incarceration. What Vick did shows meanness and ignorance. Those can hopefully be cured.
How many school bullies grow up to learn the error of their ways? Hopefully a lot, either by being 'corrected' or by maturity.


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

L_Dan said:


> You guys irritate me sometimes on issues like this.
> 
> Who better to talk about the horrors of dog-fighting than one who has been involved and recovered? How in the world do you know he has not repented and truely is sorry?
> 
> ...


Thank you!

Let him give all the money he wants, the time he wants to. Nothing wrong with it. He's done his time and guess what? He'll never escape scrutiny, people will always be watching him. 

Is he reformed? 

I don't know. 

How can anyone know? Who has the right to keep someone down in perpetual punishment?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I love my GSD more than anything else in this world, he means everything to me, if someone ever tortured him or forced him to fight I would demand blood from that person. 

I dont understand how someone could love animals, love their dogs, and be ok with Michael Vick owning another dog after what he did. It just doesn't make any sense to me.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> IMHO molesting children/women is an illness that can't be cured and should result in lifelong incarceration. What Vick did shows meanness and ignorance. Those can hopefully be cured.
> How many school bullies grow up to learn the error of their ways? Hopefully a lot, either by being 'corrected' or by maturity.


IMHO, Torturing and killing innocent animals is an illness that cannot be cured. I'm not sure how I feel about lifelong incarceration but the individual who can show such disregard for life should not be allowed near the living creatures they do not respect.


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I love my GSD more than anything else in this world, he means everything to me, if someone ever tortured him or forced him to fight I would demand blood from that person.
> 
> I dont understand how someone could love animals, love their dogs, and be ok with Michael Vick owning another dog after what he did. It just doesn't make any sense to me.


Good for you.

You may not understand it, but I do love my dogs and don't condone violence done against any living thing, but I do also care about my fellow human being. I know that if I had screwed up that badly, I'd hope to get a chance to make amends. 

But that is becoming less of a reality with today's mindset. There are those out there that demand more and more, even when someone is trying to do the right thing. To me, THAT don't make sense.


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## Justin0406 (Jun 18, 2010)

I believe he can reach people you and I never could reach. He's able to bring awareness to the minds of some kids that would have never seen the wrong in dog fighting simply because their culture said it was ok... I mean there are a lot of people fighting dogs everyday (many cultures and many age groups) and they see absolutely nothing wrong with it. If Vick is able to re-route the mindset of younger kids then i say go for it and spread the message. He is transforming his darkness that it may be someone else's light... There are kids who will walk away from dog fighting because of vick's demise. After he satisfy his sentence yes he should have the rights to own animals as granted to him by law.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

To me, the message this is sending to the public is that a celebrity can do just about anything and get away with it with just a half-hearted apology and a slap on the wrist. I don't understand the hero-worship our society has for these celebrities. As if their supreme-beingness makes them not subject to our laws and morality.


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## novarobin (Oct 4, 2007)

Justin0406 said:


> There are kids who will walk away from dog fighting because of vick's demise..


What demise? He is still rich, still famous and still playing in the NFL.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

While I agree him talking to kids may help, what he did and was responsible for to me, is unforgivable. Not just him, anyone who does these kind of things. I'm still hoping he gets hurt really bad in a game and never be able to play again. 
If only I were a linebacker in the NFL now...the fine would be so worth it!

Oh and no, he should never own any animal ever again. It's clear he doesn't care about an innocent life.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

Kelly's Buddy said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Let him give all the money he wants, the time he wants to. Nothing wrong with it. He's done his time and guess what? He'll never escape scrutiny, people will always be watching him.
> 
> ...


 
DOG does. You know, backwards it spells GOD.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

L_Dan said:


> You guys irritate me sometimes on issues like this.
> 
> Who better to talk about the horrors of dog-fighting than one who has been involved and recovered? How in the world do you know he has not repented and truely is sorry?
> 
> ...


Your arguments are truely hilarious!:silly:


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> While I agree him talking to kids may help, what he did and was responsible for to me, is unforgivable. Not just him, anyone who does these kind of things. I'm still hoping he gets hurt really bad in a game and never be able to play again.
> If only I were a linebacker in the NFL now...the fine would be so worth it!
> 
> Oh and no, he should never own any animal ever again. It's clear he doesn't care about an innocent life.


Oh, so you think it's okay to talk to kids about his wrong doings, but you hope he's physically hurt permanently, not only that, you'd like to do the honors???:help:

Here's what I hope, he becomes the biggest and greatest advocate of the humane treatment for animals. I hope he is allowed to one day own a pet and prove he can be good companion. I hope he shows people the errors of his ways and continues to be successful both on and off the field.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

Kelly's Buddy said:


> Oh, so you think it's okay to talk to kids about his wrong doings, but you hope he's physically hurt permanently, not only that, you'd like to do the honors???:help:
> 
> Here's what I hope, he becomes the biggest and greatest advocate of the humane treatment for animals. I hope he is allowed to one day own a pet and prove he can be good companion. I hope he shows people the errors of his ways and continues to be successful both on and off the field.


Lol, you sound like ones who supported him when this first came out. The biggest black star in NFL was busted for killing and torturing dogs and it had to be racist. As it is, he got off EASY because he's a big star. 
And if i saw him on the street, i would punch him in the face.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If the Humane Society really wanted a poster boy, why not pick someone who spends tons of what money they have and what money they can raise to rescue, vet, and rehome dogs? Why? Because their sacrifice is real, their time and their money and their all is truly their time and their money and their all. And it does not mean a hill of beans to HSUS. 

Michael Vick though, a comment here, and a few thou there, and he is a blanking HERO! 

I am sorry, but HSUS gets a huge thumbs down on this marriage. There are real people out there SACRIFICING for dogs. But they could care less about those people. Those people are nobodies. 

Ya know why? Because HSUS isn't about saving dogs' lives. They are about making money. Yes, they villianize breeders for making money, but they can make tons of money and pay salaries and never help ANY dogs. 

But I digress. 

I could care less that Michael Vick is playing football. He did his time, more time than many who do similar crimes. 

But I HATE hearing about how he is such a wonderful guy when it comes to dogs. Kiss my blankety blank blank! 

Get on with your life Michael Vick and we will do what we can to forget what you did while we hope the opposition sack and sack and sack you. 

If HSUS had leadership with a conscience, they would tell MV, thanks but no thanks, we do not need your money, we do not need your time, and we will not condone your idiotic attempts to be noticed in a positive light. We will not play that game. Go on. Maybe PETA will accept you, because they are crazier than we are.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> Your arguments are truely hilarious!:silly:


Why are they hilarious? What makes them hilarious?


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> Lol, you sound like ones who supported him when this first came out. The biggest black star in NFL was busted for killing and torturing dogs and it had to be racist. As it is, he got off EASY because he's a big star.
> And if i saw him on the street, i would punch him in the face.


Sure you would. 

No, I did not. I was glad he got busted. 

The fact you brought his race into it leads me to believe maybe you are.

These threads lead no where. Right up there with the Ceasar threads. They're divisive and have no purpose. There is nothing anyone can do about Vick or those who choose to use him for whatever purpose or value he may have. opcorn:


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Since he has started playing again, often I have wished he'd be hurt so bad out there to be seriously injured, but I've changed my thinking.

Would anyone say that he is doing HARM (increasing cruelty to animals) by speaking out against dog fighting?? What more can be done with him NOW, to HELP?? I don't think further vilifying him or banishing him to eternal suffering would do anything to decrease dog fighting. Dog fighters already know they aren't liked by the majority of people, so reinforcing that by further punishing him is not going to do any good (unless you think it would be a deterrent, but there are already plenty of deterrents in place).

No one of us has to like him, but this situation is not about anyone feels about him as a person, it's about preventing further cruelty to animals.. and a high-visibility advocate speaking out against it can only help.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

VaBeachFamily said:


> Has anyone else seen the updates on his former dogs? I mean, seriously, maybe he should donate a lil help to the people who are now fighting the battles every day to deal with the problems he has caused.


Best Friends in Utah, who took 22 of his dogs, got a couple hundred thousand from him to help care for the dogs, although it was not out of the goodness of his heart, it was part of the fine he had to pay. 

Best Friends had some interesting comments about Vick returning to pro football: Best Friends Animal Society?s Official Statement on Michael Vick?s Return to Professional Football



> “This being said, Best Friends feels that perhaps the cart is being placed before the horse. Wouldn’t it have been better if, before he was given the privilege of returning to the NFL, he had spent at least one year working for the good of animals? He could have worked as a shelter volunteer, visited community centers, and delivered messages to at-risk children, totally free from the glare of the pro football spotlight. Surely this act of dedication would help us see what truly is in his heart.
> 
> *“As it is, we’re left to wonder if his expression of repentance is genuine or just part of a well-orchestrated plan to return him to multi-million-dollar, sports megastar status."*


Exactly.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

novarobin said:


> I just can't see how one views a dog as a source of entertainment in such a cruel forum, that a dog is so inconsequential it can live or die merely for entertainment, then suddenly changes to view a dog as a pet. I get some people don't view dogs the way most of us on the forum do (not that I agree with it), that it isn't hard for them to see cruelty or suffering because it is only a dog. I just don't think that type of view changes easily.


Excellent post. He didn't just fight dogs, he brutally tortured and murdered them. Is he truly repentant, does he _really_ think what he did was wrong? Maybe. Or maybe not. Personally, I don't trust that he's sorry about what he did, I think he's sorry that he got caught and sent to jail for it. He has a HUGE financial incentive to repair his public image, so I think he's doing what he has to do for that to happen. He's now back in football and making the big bucks, so it all worked out for him. 



Good_Karma said:


> To me, the message this is sending to the public is that a celebrity can do just about anything and get away with it with just a half-hearted apology and a slap on the wrist. I don't understand the hero-worship our society has for these celebrities. As if their supreme-beingness makes them not subject to our laws and morality.


Yeah, pretty much. I'm glad he's speaking out as an advocate against dog fighting, and I hope that he is able to reach a lot of people with that message. But for me it does not undo what he did.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

*ctrocuting, hanging*



GSD Fan said:


> Why are they hilarious? What makes them hilarious?


So dog-fighting is illegal. Why isn't horse-racing wrong? They are hiked up on drugs and pushed to even death during a race. Do you come down on horse owners??? No, because it is legal to push a horse to its absolute limit.

What about dog-sled racing? Same canine species. Don't you want that competition stopped because dogs are abused and tortured, "trained" to death in some cases?

Get over your anger toward Vick. haven't you ever done anything wrong and realized later (maybe after getting caught)?



Didn't mean that horses and sled dogs dieing is hilarious, just that i don't hear of horses dying during a race that often. Sled dogs i know some are mistreated and die. Seems comparing those two to an Vick intentionally electrocuting and killing dogs because they wouldn't fight to the death, is hilarious.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Too me, all this crap should be a real smack in the face to those who go around cleaning up messes made by people like Vick. 

This yayhoo that just had to have 1200 dogs euthanized due to distemper. If he started making the circuit and proudly professing what horrors there are within the puppy mill industry, and how sorry he was that all those dogs ended up dying, do you think it would reach other puppy millers? Do you think it would change their evil ways? Would rescue organizations lift him up and extol to the world what a great guy he is?

Sorry, the people out there helping critters, not out of guilt for what they did to their kind, nor out of some desire to be in the news or to redeem themselves with the fan base, these people should be getting the kudos and not Vick. 

Should he have worked in a shelter for a year? No. Once he did his jail time, he should have been able to go back to work. He did more actual time than most dog fighters, and that time was a lot more costly than it is to ordinary criminals. He lost time from his football years. I am not bleeding for the guy, but a football players active working life is usually much shorter than an ordinary person, and long delays in training, might mean never coming back. After there active carreer is over, they will generally undergo some serious health issues.

I have no problem with him going out there and playing ball again. It takes a lot of work and some courage to come back from something like this. I just wish he would leave animals out of his current and future. And if he cannot, then I wish news media would not give him the time of day.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Rusty_212 said:


> So dog-fighting is illegal. Why isn't horse-racing wrong? They are hiked up on drugs and pushed to even death during a race. Do you come down on horse owners??? No, because it is legal to push a horse to its absolute limit.
> 
> What about dog-sled racing? Same canine species. Don't you want that competition stopped because dogs are abused and tortured, "trained" to death in some cases?
> 
> ...


 
I have never committed cruel acts on helpless creatures as an adult, and fully aware and responsible for my actions. Not even without "realizing it."

This is irritating really. 

There are many areas where animals are used, some killed for human use, for their skin, fur, meat, etc. Some do entertain, yes a horse got killed racing in the Kentucky Derby. Yes, other horses have been killed. Accidents. I bet far fewer horses are killed in races, than dogs racing in front of cars. Should we stop people from owning dogs because some dogs get killed running across a street?

Dog fighting has so many dogs injured and killed, dogs in the fights, but also dogs in preparation to fights, dogs picked up free in newspaper ads, or picked up as strays; dogs with muzzles duct taped and litterally fed to budding young pit fighters. Pits with blood spattered walls It is a disgusting thing to participate in, and likening it to horse racing or sled dog races is simply ignorant. You may as well liken it to police service dogs, they get killed in action too.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I'm glad he's speaking out as an advocate against dog fighting, and I hope that he is able to reach a lot of people with that message. But for me it does not undo what he did.


I agree. I am not in a position to say whether he is repentent or not. And I don't really care. I don't have a problem with him playing in the NFL. I don't have a problem with him educating kids. He is not hurting anyone or anything doing this. I hope he reaches people and that his message will matter.

But just because he says he is sorry, and will pass out money, do NOT mean that I would trust him with another dog. To me, owning a dog is a privilege. Just because he is sorry now, do not change that fact that he TORTURED and KILLED his own dogs. He screwed up. There are things called consequences for screwing up. He has proven in the past he cannot be trusted around dogs, why would you risk the life of yet another dog in his hands??? What if he does it again?!

Hoping that he is rehabilitated, and trusting him are two different things.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

Kelly's Buddy said:


> Sure you would.
> 
> The fact you brought his race into it leads me to believe maybe you are.


No, i wouldn't call myself racist as one of my best friends happens to be black. I brought it up cause it was a fact that his supporters were the ones to bring it into the case against him. Which is irrevelant that his color had been any other. Same thing happened in L.A. back in 94, if you remember, except he had a better lawyer.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Don't believe and probably never will. He is doing for publicity, fame, and $$$. And the fact he is working with H$U$ also makes me think that its really a bunch of BS.

I really don't think he will be a good dog owner, and should never own one. He hurt and killed to many dogs. He should never be allowed to a pet of any kind.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Get over your anger toward Vick. haven't you ever done anything wrong and realized later (maybe after getting caught)?


I can honestly say that I have never done anything that remotely even comes close to what he did to those poor dogs. Michael Vick is evil and twisted inside. For entertainment he hooked his dogs up to electrical sources and tossed them into a pool. This base makeup inside of someone is not healed because someone took some time and reflected on their actions. Personally I would not allow any young member of my family to get anywhere near him to listen to any type of message that he gave. 

Acording to our legal system he paid for his crimes so OK let him out and go about his life but keep him away from animals and too sad that his family can not have a pet. They have him to thank for that and they will have to live with the results of his actions. He is evil and no amount of glossing over his actions will ever change that.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

The HSUS made millions with their campaign *against* dogfighting and M. Vick. 

Now the HSUS will make millions with their campaign *in partnership* with M. Vick.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

ILGHAUS said:


> I can honestly say that I have never done anything that remotely even comes close to what he did to those poor dogs. Michael Vick is evil and twisted inside. For entertainment he hooked his dogs up to electrical sources and tossed them into a pool. This base makeup inside of someone is not healed because someone took some time and reflected on their actions. Personally I would not allow any young member of my family to get anywhere near him to listen to any type of message that he gave.
> 
> Acording to our legal system he paid for his crimes so OK let him out and go about his life but keep him away from animals and too sad that his family can not have a pet. They have him to thank for that and they will have to live with the results of his actions. He is evil and no amount of glossing over his actions will ever change that.


Great post!


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

People have gotten life time bans from owning animals for actions that were much, much less cruel than what he did. Prison will not teach someone empathy and love towards animals.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I wonder how much influence the NFL has had on the HSUS's position regarding MV. Certainly to the NFL, Vick is a commodity, and he brings in lots of $ for that organization. I'm sure the spin doctors hired by the NFL have a huge interest in making him seem like he's reformed and one of the good guys again. Makes me curious as to whether the NFL has had any influence on the HSUS and their president's position on Vick.


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

ILGHAUS said:


> The HSUS made millions with their campaign *against* dogfighting and M. Vick.
> 
> Now the HSUS will make millions with their campaign *in partnership* with M. Vick.


That's what it's all about. Because he's Vick, the superstar, this made headlines in prompt fashion. And, he will again every time a mic is thrust in his face. That has a certain value whether anyone likes it or not.

But, this sort of thing (dog/animal fighting) happens much too often, because I believe it's a cultural thing that goes way back to perhaps the Roman Empire, where animals were used for sports, wager and entertainment. 

Heck, I've been to countries where they eat Fido. Countries so poor they have no problems with stray dogs or cats. Only here do we feed them meals that would feed a family for a week. Go figure, I guess it's a cultural thing here for Americans. I guess that's another topic.

Vick's not going anywhere anytime soon. Deal with it.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

It's funny ppl still think since he did his time, he'll be a great guy and a changed man. This POS has more on life than any of us on this forum will ever have and yet he chose his hobby to kill and torture dogs. That's a fact that will never be erased. Hope someday he suffers as much as the dogs he killed did.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I do not know if Vick has really come to the realization that what he did was so cruel. He will be able to legally own a dog when he has finished the time for his crimes. (Note I only mentioned legally, I did not say morally)

If he gets a dog for his kids I hope that he looks into the eyes of his kids and the dog and understands what he has done.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> It's funny ppl still think since he did his time, he'll be a great guy and a changed man. This POS has more on life than any of us on this forum will ever have and yet he chose his hobby to kill and torture dogs. That's a fact that will never be erased. Hope someday he suffers as much as the dogs he killed did.


I completely agree with this!

He said he misses being able to have dogs, why is that? Is it because he misses torturing them? He clearly doesn't miss loving them and taking care of them. 

He knew dog fighting was bad, he knew it was illegal and yet he still did it. The only reason he is sorry is because he got caught, lost fans and lost money. He is trying to rebuild his reputation. He wants to get a dog to make himself look better, chances are he will photographed with the dog for a little while and then someone else will take care of it for him.

He doesn't deserve the love of a dog and I dont know how a "dog lover" can be ok with the idea of him owning another dog.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

Kelly's Buddy said:


> That's what it's all about. Because he's Vick, the superstar, this made headlines in prompt fashion. And, he will again every time a mic is thrust in his face. That has a certain value whether anyone likes it or not.
> 
> But, this sort of thing (dog/animal fighting) happens much too often, because I believe it's a cultural thing that goes way back to perhaps the Roman Empire, where animals were used for sports, wager and entertainment.
> 
> ...


 I don't have to 'deal with it' I can and will voice my opinion on the subject all i want to. If you can't 'deal with that' then i'm sorry it upsets you.

I have a feeling this thread may go as long as the 'Dog shot at dog park' one did.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> He doesn't deserve the love of a dog and I dont know how a "dog lover" can be ok with the idea of him owning another dog.


 
Right on!


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> I don't have to 'deal with it' I can and will voice my opinion on the subject all i want to. If you can't 'deal with that' then i'm sorry it upsets you.
> 
> I have a feeling this thread may go as long as the 'Dog shot at dog park' one did.


I wasn't speaking about your right to speak your opinion and I'm not upset. You're the one that resorts to violence and name calling. I'm just speaking my own mind. Just for the record, I wasn't even commenting on your post.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> It's funny ppl still think since he did his time, he'll be a great guy and a changed man.


Really? So people who do time NEVER change?

That's untrue and unfair. A lot of people change when they come out of prison. Prison MAKES you change, either in a bad way or good way. 

None of us know whether or not Vick is truly changed and feels remorse for what he did. How can you know unless you're the Lord or Vick's doctor?

Why is the dog community so judgemental? I somewhat know what Vick is going through. I had an outside dog. "REHOME HER NOW" "YOU'RE NOT WORTHY OF HER". I realized my mistake and rehomed her. Those SAME exact people still bring up the past and say I "should never own a dog again."

You know what's funny? Some breeds of dog were bred specifically for fighting.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

GSD Fan said:


> Really? So people who do time NEVER change?
> 
> That's untrue and unfair. A lot of people change when they come out of prison. Prison MAKES you change, either in a bad way or good way.
> 
> ...


That may be true but they were not bred to be abused, tortured and killed by their human.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

GSD Fan said:


> Why is the dog community so judgemental? I somewhat know what Vick is going through. I had an outside dog. "REHOME HER NOW" "YOU'RE NOT WORTHY OF HER". I realized my mistake and rehomed her. Those SAME exact people still bring up the past and say I "should never own a dog again."


I'm sorry but keeping an outside dog is not the same as torturing and killing one. They aren't even comparable. Someone that is capable of torturing and killing living beings for entertainment is just not wired right and I am not convinced that you can rewire a brain like that to function normally. 

Vick did his time and his is allowed to get on with his life. I personally don't feel anything for the guy - hatred or compassion. He just doesn't matter to me. But, someone who brutally tortured and killed animals should not be allowed near them again.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> I'm sorry but keeping an outside dog is not the same as torturing and killing one. They aren't even comparable. Someone that is capable of torturing and killing living beings for entertainment is just not wired right and I am not convinced that you can rewire a brain like that to function normally.
> 
> Vick did his time and his is allowed to get on with his life. I personally don't feel anything for the guy - hatred or compassion. He just doesn't matter to me. *But, someone who brutally tortured and killed animals should not be allowed near them again*.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> That may be true but they were not bred to be abused, tortured and killed by their human.


What is dog fighting? Don't they "torture" and "abuse" them as puppies and when they fight, can you not argue they were "killed by their human"?


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

GSD Fan said:


> What is dog fighting? Don't they "torture" and "abuse" them as puppies and when they fight, can you not argue they were "killed by their human"?


 I don't understand that post. No dogs should ever be bred for fighting, imo. it's fkn BS. You could argue they were killed by a human, does that make it right?
You know, Jeffrey Dahmer started out this way.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

GSD Fan said:


> What is dog fighting? Don't they "torture" and "abuse" them as puppies and when they fight, can you not argue they were "killed by their human"?


Dogs fight everyday, regardless of the breed but to intentionally put dogs together so they will fight until the death is torture.

_"For entertainment he hooked his dogs up to electrical sources and tossed them into a pool." _

That is torture, that is completely uncalled for and no breed was created to experience that.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Rusty_212 said:


> I don't understand that post. No dogs should ever be bred for fighting, imo. it's fkn BS. You could argue they were killed by a human, does that make it right?
> You know, Jeffrey Dahmer started out this way.


I didn't understand that post either but I was trying to answer it the best way I could. 

You are correct! Serial killers start out by torturing animals first!


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## dogless (Jan 7, 2005)

I don't believe for a second that he regrets what he did (other than being caught) and that he believes what he did was wrong. He still blames it on others, here is a quote from him:

""I don't have a problem. I'm not a psychopath. I'm not crazy. I'm a human being. What happened in my past and what I did *in the culture I grew up in *doesn't shape and mold me as the person I am now." 

He blames his animal torture on how he was raised, he is not taking responsibility for his own actions. 

He wants a dog to make himself look good, in his own words to quote "help with my rehabilitation". Why in the heck should he be able to USE the same animals that he ABUSED to HELP HIMSELF!!!! 

In my opinion, he should NEVER EVER be graced with the love that a dog can bestow upon their humans, he should NEVER have that warm fuzzy feeling when a dog looks at you with worship in it's face, that you are the greatest thing alive. He forfeited the right to ever be LOVED by a dog when he abused and murdered them.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

dogless said:


> I don't believe for a second that he regrets what he did (other than being caught) and that he believes what he did was wrong. He still blames it on others, here is a quote from him:
> 
> ""I don't have a problem. I'm not a psychopath. I'm not crazy. I'm a human being. What happened in my past and what I did *in the culture I grew up in *doesn't shape and mold me as the person I am now."
> 
> ...


:thumbup: Excellent!


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm not going to get too crazy with this post but I think a lot of people are missing a big point to all of this. WHY is the HSUS letting Vick be their poster boy? Money is the only thing I can come up with. I think Seltzer mentioned it earlier, it's a business and a business that needs to make money. IMO, they have their hand in too many piles. There was a story about a man here that just sodomized and beat then killed his dogs.....did you hear about that? I didn't think you did cause he's not a pro football player. IMO, he shouuld have got kicked out of the league. Why, because he is supposed to be a role model for young kids and now the kids see that if they screw up and they throw money at it, it will go away. I am a Steeler fan but how many times does Big Ben get to rape women?
And last, I have been working in a Federal Penitentiary for the past 12 years, if you think for one second that everyone is rehab'd when they get out you are soooooooo wrong. Maybe the guys that go to a camp for a month or two but the guys that are down for 15+ learn how to be a better criminal. The majority are harder when they get out because this is NOT a friendly place to be, people get stabbed, beat with locks in a sock, thrown over tiers, raped and the list goes on.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

Denali Girl said:


> I'm not going to get too crazy with this post but I think a lot of people are missing a big point to all of this. WHY is the HSUS letting Vick be their poster boy? Money is the only thing I can come up with. I think Seltzer mentioned it earlier, it's a business and a business that needs to make money. IMO, they have their hand in too many piles. There was a story about a man here that just sodomized and beat then killed his dogs.....did you hear about that? I didn't think you did cause he's not a pro football player. IMO, he shouuld have got kicked out of the league. Why, because he is supposed to be a role model for young kids and now the kids see that if they screw up and they throw money at it, it will go away. I am a Steeler fan but how many times does Big Ben get to rape women?
> And last, I have been working in a Federal Penitentiary for the past 12 years, if you think for one second that everyone is rehab'd when they get out you are soooooooo wrong. Maybe the guys that go to a camp for a month or two but the guys that are down for 15+ learn how to be a better criminal. The majority are harder when they get out because this is NOT a friendly place to be, people get stabbed, beat with locks in a sock, thrown over tiers, raped and the list goes on.


X2!


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

Denali Girl said:


> I'm not going to get too crazy with this post but I think a lot of people are missing a big point to all of this. WHY is the HSUS letting Vick be their poster boy? Money is the only thing I can come up with. I think Seltzer mentioned it earlier, it's a business and a business that needs to make money. IMO, they have their hand in too many piles. There was a story about a man here that just sodomized and beat then killed his dogs.....did you hear about that? I didn't think you did cause he's not a pro football player. IMO, he shouuld have got kicked out of the league. Why, because he is supposed to be a role model for young kids and now the kids see that if they screw up and they throw money at it, it will go away. I am a Steeler fan but how many times does Big Ben get to rape women?
> And last, I have been working in a Federal Penitentiary for the past 12 years, if you think for one second that everyone is rehab'd when they get out you are soooooooo wrong. Maybe the guys that go to a camp for a month or two but the guys that are down for 15+ learn how to be a better criminal. The majority are harder when they get out because this is NOT a friendly place to be, people get stabbed, beat with locks in a sock, thrown over tiers, raped and the list goes on.


Spot on DG, it's about money, it's always about money. I disagree that Vick or anyone like him should be role model. I remember Barkley saying the same thing years ago. "Don't look to me to be your kid's role model. It's not my job, I play basketball."

Yep. Prisons are universities for crime. Good on you for putting so much time in there. Have some good friends that work at corrections facilities and I wouldn't want that job.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I keep seeing posts saying that Vick has done his time. He is not finished yet. He is still on probation.

When he is off probation I am sure there will be lots of people watching him to be sure he doesn't go back to his old ways. I will not believe he has changed his ways until he drops a dime on all of his old associates and does some real work to help animals (not just spokesman stuff).


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

All thumbs and X2's aside, this morning at the gym I was watching this whole ESPN segment on Vick. Dam that guy can slash. Watched him take a few good hits from the Cowboys line. Should make some people happy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GSD Fan said:


> Really? So people who do time NEVER change?
> 
> That's untrue and unfair. A lot of people change when they come out of prison. Prison MAKES you change, either in a bad way or good way.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure you never murdered any dogs by hanging, drowning, electrocution, or slamming them into the ground. Just a guess though. 

It takes a certain kind of person to be capable of treating living beings like that. Anyone who choses to believe that he's suddenly reformed (at what - 30 years old?) after thinking there was nothing wrong with such brutality towards animals for most of his life, is free to do so. But I don't buy it for a second.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> I didn't understand that post either but I was trying to answer it the best way I could.


You answered it good. What I was basically saying was dogfighting is a form abuse and torture and when they die, you can argue they were killed by their owner because their owner made them fight in the first place.

This thread is getting kinda heated. I'll leave with this:

If I insulted anyone in any way, I apologize.

Edit:
And no, I've never done such a thing. I couldn't even do it to a misquitoe, even though I almost hate those bugs.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

GSD Fan said:


> You answered it good. What I was basically saying was dogfighting is a form abuse and torture and when they die, you can argue they were killed by their owner because their owner made them fight in the first place.
> 
> This thread is getting kinda heated. I'll leave with this:
> 
> ...


No hard feelings here.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GSD Fan, I don't think you insulted anyone, and of course I was being facetious about you killing dogs. My point was that while I agree with you in general (and with others who have said the same thing) that people are capable of change and may deserve a second chance, the seriousness and severity of what he did goes way, way, WAY past just not understanding that a dog shouldn't live their life chained up outside. Lack of proper care is not the same as blatant, deliberate, repeated abuse.


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

I think I'll follow GSD Fan's lead. As I mentioned, these threads go nowhere, solve nothing IMHO. They only cause friction. I can appreciate how others think and feel. If I caused any anguish, I apologize.


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## jetdog (Oct 9, 2005)

You know, what Vick did to dogs was cruel, violent, and inexcusable. I understand that he served his sentence, but I am not one so willing to forgive and forget. Because I DO NOT believe he has reformed, sorry. I DO believe that Vick is incapable of ever understanding the bond that a true dog lover and their dog can have, and that's his loss. He wants a dog now, oh wonderful, in his mind it is just another way to improve his image. I also think that many are willing to overlook his past crimes strictly because he is such a talented athlete, and to me that is sad. If he were Mr. Ordinary from next door, would we be all be as willing to forget? I doubt it.
I can watch him play football, but I will never be a fan, i can't allow myself to be swayed by his talent. He did something horrific to the animals that I love, and I don't think all his speeches and donations make up for that. Don't get me wrong, I am glad he is doing it (for his own benefit, I'm sure) because if it helps open peoples' eyes about dog fighting, then it's a good thing. I just don't believe it's coming from the heart of a reformed criminal, I think it's all about maximizing his bottom line. Call me cynical, I wish that he was out there cleaning kennels and working in the humane societies hands-on so he could see and be reminded of the abuse he commited. Maybe then, he "might" have a shred of true remorse.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

One has to actually feel empathy for any work in a humane society to be beneficial to them.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> I understand that he served his sentence,


That is something that many people have stated that is incorrect. He is still serving part of his sentence on probation. He cannot drink, have a credit card, associate with other felons, *or own a dog* while he is still serving his probation. There have been a few incidents while he has been on probation that might have resulted in him going back to prison if he was less famous.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Out of curiosity, what happened to the thread started by GSD Fan that was titled something like "Can Michael Vick be rehabilitated?" I was following that thread and it completely disappeared one day.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Leah, she took it in a political direction and it ended up in the deleted archives.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Gotcha.


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## Rusty_212 (Apr 21, 2010)

No hard feelings here. Forums are meant for one to voice their own opinion, no ones 100% right, but i am glad this thread was created.
No one should ever forget what he did.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Owning a dog is a privilege. Having a drivers license is a privilege. If you have too many tickets or DUIs you lose that privilege forever. It doesn't matter if you served prison time, payed fines, go to AA meetings, speak out againts drunk driving, learn every traffic law in the state. Because of past actions you lose your driving privilege forever.

I think its more than fair that if you torture and kill dogs like Vick you lose the privilege of owning dogs ever again. *He does not need a dog*. If he really truely missed being around dogs and genuinley cared for dogs he could have many dogs in his life by volunteering with animal shelters.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> Owning a dog is a privilege. *Having a drivers license is a privilege. If you have too many tickets or DUIs you lose that privilege forever.* It doesn't matter if you served prison time, payed fines, go to AA meetings, speak out againts drunk driving, learn every traffic law in the state. Because of past actions you lose your driving privilege forever.


Unless you're famous! Has Lindsey Lohan lost her license? 

Being a celebrity in this country means you have the money to pay lawyers to get your sentence reduced, agents to put a positive spin on your every misdeed, and a brainwashed loyal following of fans who will back you up right or wrong. And you can't tell me that spending all your time surrounded by yes-men does nothing to change you as a person, to create in yourself a feeling of godliness, deserving of your adulation and beyond the boundaries of the rest of society.

I love the term "celeb-utards." Totally fits.


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## Kelly's Buddy (Nov 15, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> Unless you're famous! Has Lindsey Lohan lost her license?
> 
> Being a celebrity in this country means you have the money to pay lawyers to get your sentence reduced, agents to put a positive spin on your every misdeed, and a brainwashed loyal following of fans who will back you up right or wrong. And you can't tell me that spending all your time surrounded by yes-men does nothing to change you as a person, to create in yourself a feeling of godliness, deserving of your adulation and beyond the boundaries of the rest of society.
> 
> I love the term "celeb-utards." Totally fits.


Isn't living in America grand? 

If it weren't for them, there would be nothing for regular people to gripe about.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

This reminds me of my link What would your Family do. They are relicing Laraunce Watts because hiis Brother is J.C. Watts and has $$$$$$ even tho he commited murder he is being reliced after jus 7 yrs. He was not up for parole untill 2025. But because he has $$$$$ he don't have to. Now days its who you are and how much your worth on wether or not the laws are on your side.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dogs fighting is gruesome. I have seen and been injured while dogs were fighting. The feeling that people experience is exhilirating -- not in a good way. Heart beat goes way up, and the power and fear and strength of everyone involved is awesome. I suppose some sick people might enjoy those feelings. 

But most of us are doing everything possible to break it up without injury to ourselves or the dogs. 

The idea of making a pit where two dogs would square off with no possible escape with the sole purpose of chewing each other up is brutal and disgusting. The blood on the walls, the gambling, the victor and the vanquished. That is a horror. 

But that to me is not the yuckiest, most grusome aspect of dog fighting. What they do to prepare dogs to fight, using dogs NOT bred to fight as bait dogs, using viscious techniques to make the dog mean, pumping them up in every sense, and then beating, torturing, and visciously killing the dogs that did not give a good account of themselves -- that kills me. 

Someone said that some cultures eat dogs. They are meat. I could NEVER. But other people may feel the same about cow or pig or lamb. Horse is another meat source that is contraversial. 

If someone is raising dog for the table, so long as they are not brutal in how they slaughter it, I mean as long as they are not torturing it to make the meat taste better, than I do not have as much of a problem with cultures that eat dog meat, than I do with cultures that participate in dog fighting. 

A hundred or more years ago, when one pitted their dog against a rival's dog, it was not the type of _sport_ the current monsters are using. Your dog walks into town with you, and some of the idiots in the bar thing it would be fun to set another dog on it. In the street, the dogs square off, posture, and finally go for one another. One walks away the victor, the other gives up, and is vanquished. Both dogs are chewed up, but usually neither is killed. We certainly do not approve of the behavior, but it is not the premeditated, cruel, constant womb to tomb conditioning and abusing of the current dog fighters. 

Culturally, people have wanted a fast horse, or a tough dog. And have had contests that measured the speed or the bravery of the respective beasts. This blood sport is totally different in my opinion.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Anyone who gets a thrill out of seeing animals being tortured and killed is sick and is disturbed. They should never own an animal of any sort.

Vick should never be allowed to own another animal ever again. Maybe he should have thought twice about what he did.

And someone posted about him getting hits by the Dallas Cowboys Defense, yes I saw that, and was extremely happy. Even though my boys lost, I still got to see Vick get sacked, apparently one of the hit made him start bleeding.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

This is a pretty good blog post on the subject (warning: the story from the Bad Rap is pretty rough to read): In Bed with Monsters : Nathan J Winograd


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

AgileGSD said:


> This is a pretty good blog post on the subject (warning: the story from the Bad Rap is pretty rough to read): In Bed with Monsters : Nathan J Winograd


:thumbup: thank you for sharing this!


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## pamela berger (Jun 19, 2008)

If dogfighting were made legal tomorrow, Vick would be back at it. People who take delight in the torture and killing of animals are missing a core piece of humanity and Vick cannot claim that he suddenly has acquired this missing piece because he paid a fine and spent a year in jail.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Pacelle needs to resign, be fired or be kidnapped but he needs to go away. As for Michael Vick. I truly hope he has a painful, horrible death for what he did to those dogs. I hope he suffers immensely physically and emotionally at some point. I really hope he gets some horrible, disfiguring, paralyzing, incurable, terminal disease. Then and only then will he truly have paid for what he did.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I am angry at most of the country because he is being given a pass because he is a very good athlete. I am all for giving people a second chance but he has not even finished his probation, he is bearly even following it. The President is praising him for having served his time as though he is done and people believe the HSUS when they say that Vick would be a good dog owner.

I know many disagree but I think he should get a second chance after he serves his time. He should not be let off the hook right away because he can play a game.


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