# New here- Looking for a MD/VA Pup



## mcullins91101 (Jan 2, 2015)

Hi Guys

Ive spent some time researching the website reading about different breeders and so on. 

Im looking for a female shepherd puppy for mainly family companion, medium drive but highly trainable. I do plan to do some recreational agility and maybe some schutzhund training. 

Id really like a red/black saddle shepherd but health is most important

budget 1,000-2000 and im hoping to find one this spring

I think I have my search narrowed down to 4 breeders, let me know what you guys think!

Haus Morrison Shepherds Haus Morrisson German Shepherds
I have a friend that has a Male from Rik/Penny great dog, high drive and crazy though! Breeding dogs are OFA Hips/Elbows and DM neg. I think they also test eyes and thyroid. Pups are mainly sable or mostly black though
They are also local to me

Sander Haus Shepherds Haus Morrisson German Shepherds
I have emailed them, they are planning a breeding for Feb but she said she waits until its confirmed to announce price and so on. Sire is OFA a2 sire Daesha is only prelim normal and im not sure on DM.

Im really interested in this breeders puppies

Blue Ridge Shepherds Blue Ridge Lane German Shepherds - Home
I love there dogs however the pups are 2,200-2500 and when I asked about OFA this is what I got back "Fanto sire of these upcoming litters is Internationally hip & elbow certified through the FCI with x rays available. All of our import dogs have pedigrees that have good or better hips through 5 generations." not really sure what that means...

And Finally Von den Blauen Bergen http://www.gsdbb.com/
Im still anxiously waiting to hear back from them


Thank you for taking the time to read my post, please feel free to recommend a breeder or leave your thoughts on the ones mentioned above!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

i am not familiar with breeders in general, but it sounds like you know the "type" of gsd you want. if it were me i would just talk to breeders and see if they can match your needs/wants then choose the breeder. you may want to consider expanding your search to be sure you get exactly want you want.


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## alldwepak (Feb 4, 2013)

hi, 

greetings, the first 3 breeders you mentioned are good, however its depends on your area of preference.

Why?
here you go....

he first 2 breeders you mentioned are good, seem to have a good reputation and certifications, however going by the looks, they are more of a typical working dog type breeder, they would excel in the sporting ring..

the 3rd breeder Blue Ridge.
seems to be very reputable, 
1. because of the lineage(pedigree)
2. Fantos' dad Omen Radhaus is an internationally acclaimed dog, 
3. when the breeder mentioned that Omens HIPs are FCI certified, what he meant was FCI is the international kennel club association, and their certification is valid across the globe, because some associations give their own certification which may or may not be valid in your country.
4. its not just the sire Fantos hips but hips of 5 generations can be checked with xray evidence.
5. they would be best in confirmation ring

so i would suggest blue ridge kennels if you were looking to extensively show your dog and the first 2 if you were looking for other working sports like schtzund agility etc.


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

I have a dog from Von Den Blauen Bergen. Randy is a reputable breeder of WGSL's and an all around nice guy. All his breeding dogs are titled and health tested. 

Here is a little info for you about what to look for in a good breeder.

(German Shepherd Breeders, by Wildhaus Kennels)


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## mcullins91101 (Jan 2, 2015)

Oops I realized I gave the wrong link for sander haus shepherds AKC registered German shepherd puppies Virginia


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## mcullins91101 (Jan 2, 2015)

DinoBlue said:


> I have a dog from Von Den Blauen Bergen. Randy is a reputable breeder of WGSL's and an all around nice guy. All his breeding dogs are titled and health tested.
> 
> Here is a little info for you about what to look for in a good breeder.
> 
> (German Shepherd Breeders, by Wildhaus Kennels)


Glad to hear it! Thanks for the link, some great info there! Ill be in contact with Randy!


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## mcullins91101 (Jan 2, 2015)

alldwepak said:


> hi,
> 
> greetings, the first 3 breeders you mentioned are good, however its depends on your area of preference.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input! I love the look of their shepherds but at that price I want to make sure hips and elbows are certified and they are DM Neg. I dont plan to show my dog at all, any agility/schutzhund work would be for fun and to keep my pup happy and busy.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

When my beloved Remo passed away, Randy of Von den Bleuen Bergen offered to give me a pup. Our rescue has helped him place a couple of retired/returned bitches. He is a really nice guy!

Anyway, I parked in front of his house and the front door opened up and I was beset upon by about eight GSDs. I was thinking I was in a "code brown" situation.

All of the dogs were gathered around me, tails wagging furiously and covering me with kisses. Nicest bunch of dogs you would ever want to meet!


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## gsd1961 (Feb 3, 2016)

I would like to give my opinion of **name removed by ADMIN**, they are a Puppy Mill breeding their pet dogs! This is NOT a responsible breeder! I went on their website and I was appalled! I calculated that in only a 3 year time span this breeder has had 8 litters and 58 puppies and has only 2 breeding females! If you view the previous litters page you will see what these dogs grow up to look like: ugly with terrible conformation! I have seen a nice working line gsd with awesome working ability and let me tell you none of the dogs they produce meet that standard! And charging an astronomical amount for the puppies, $1,800-$2,200 for limited AKC registration!! For that amount of money it should be Full AKC and both parents should have at least an IPO, yet none of their breeding females or stud dogs have any working titles! This breeder also touts on health testing yet they breed a female with OFA Fair hips? I also question why they continue to breed a female at 7 years old who has already produced 5 litters of puppies, their female **name removed by ADMIN** has had 5 litters and 30 puppies in a time span of only 3 years and they plan to breed her again!! Poor girl, at that age it is time to retire the dam! They have way too many litters and put no thought whatsoever into breeding, why breed a West German show line female with a working line male? Seems to me they are breeding their PETS just to make a profit. Simply because one owns two pure bred german shepherds DOES NOT mean that they should breed them!! 

** Breeder bashing is not allowed on this board. ADMIN**


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ok - looked at three websites

a comment on giving references - if you don't know the people/dogs personally and haven't done the sport and have years of learning and understanding breeding, pedigrees, lines and type - you are often giving very incorrect and misleading advice!!!!!!!!!!! To the OP - LOOK at the person giving the advice - have they bred or titled dogs? Do they have years of experience? Look at their posts and see what kind of knowledge base they show ..... or do they have one pet dog from a breeder and just plain love him and want to share that love (no matter that he is fear aggressive, has bitten their neighbor, can't be housebroken etc etc - all found in other posts!) Your references and comments must be analyzed as carefully as the breeders you are looking at!!!

The first breeder - no indication that you would get a working - even club level prospect....looks like a nicely done website capitolizing on work everyone else does with European line dogs to get similar prices....working show crosses generally are real crap shoots for working ability and using a black male insures they will get only black and red puppies - ie breeding for that market but having bragging rights that sire is titled!

the second and third are similar - looks like they both rely on promoting dogs they import as a business - breeding import dogs for the market - terms are also very geared to selling product - "first come, first serve" demands for deposits to "hold your place" etc...not that of a concerned breeder in my mind but more a commercial operation

Randy Brent is your fourth choice - know Randy - he is a decent guy and pretty much does follow the German guidelines....not a big puppy operation

In VA - you can also contact Christine Kemper - who is a member here...Blackthorne - her dogs are working lines, lots of East German and having a lot of DDR blood should make nice companion dogs who can do fun activities/work as you require....

Lee


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Just a heads up that this is a year-old thread, bumped up by a new member. Info about breeders is still valid though, thanks Lee for chiming in, though the original poster has probably already gotten a dog.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

oops - did not notice that! But yes - the info is still valid about the breeders and how to "take" references!

sorry!

Lee


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## gsd1961 (Feb 3, 2016)

My intention was not to "bash" this specific breeder. I am writing for those looking for a gsd pup to do their research and find a reputable breeder. I find the First breeder listed to not be a reputable one. After researching this particular breeder I have found that they breed dogs with Fair hips, produce an enormous amount of puppies, primarily use their own stud dog(s), have obtained no IPO titles on any of the breeding dogs they own and produce puppies that are a mix of lines and pedigree that lack correct structure and are of poor quality... When researching breeders ask lots of questions, look for a Quality bred german shepherd from a responsible breeder! Here are just a few questions to consider:

1. Are the dam and sire OFA Good hip/normal elbow certified?
2. Do either dam or sire have any show rating (SG, V, VA...) or working titles(IPO..)?
3. Does the breeder own the sire (if so how often do they breed to them?)
4. Review the dam and sire's pedigree, it is show line, working line, a mixture?
5. If it is a repeat breeding, ask to view pictures of the previous progeny.
6. How many litters does this breeder have a year, how many times a year do they breed their females, at what age do they retire their females from breeding?
7. Does the breeder allow you to visit the premises and meet their dogs (if so, what are the temperaments of the dogs, the living conditions for the dogs, are the dogs in good condition, fed a quality food, how are the puppies raised/socialized etc.)?
8. Are all puppies that are being sold on limited registration as pets required to be spayed/neutered?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

There is NOTHING WRONG with Fair hips!!!!!! I have seen dogs with C hips at one year go OFA Excellent or Good later - I have seen dogs with "Fair" hips PRODUCE OFA EXCELLENT

While some of your thoughts are on the right track - it is not quite as black and white as you want to present in evaluating a breeder or litter.

Lee


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## gsd1961 (Feb 3, 2016)

If you pay $2,000 and up for a puppy, both sire and dam better have at least Good hips


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Ya. Well. A *lot* of people here will give references, good and bad, without having seen the breeder's dogs. They give bad references even if the important reputable breeder items are checked off on the list, because of one disagreement over a dog, or get one side of the story of a buyer vs breeder dispute, or politics - "bad blood" because of a disagreement or falling out over things that often don't even have to do with the dogs. 

I don't care who ya are, take references with a grain of salt for sure, yes, even mine. Which is why I always say, beyond the basic check list (health test/title/work/show so on) go look at the dogs yourself armed with knowledge. 

As for the list below, two things in blue.

A lot of breeders don't own the males of a litter and often for good reason. They are looking to match females with the most suitable male. If their female is not a good match for the male in their kennel they should and very, very often do work with other reputable breeders to find the best match. So a breeder not owning the male is not an absolute red flag.

The last point in blue. There's some wiggle room in this. As time has gone on the MUST spay/neuter all non-breeding animals ASAP has been challenged and rightfully so. There are honest questions as to the health benefits and negatives to neutering dogs. Limited registration, yes, good idea, not making it mandatory plus actually legally enforcing pet homes always spay/neuter is very debatable.

The fair vs good hips thing is also not black and white.





gsd1961 said:


> My intention was not to "bash" this specific breeder. I am writing for those looking for a gsd pup to do their research and find a reputable breeder. I find the First breeder listed to not be a reputable one. After researching this particular breeder I have found that they breed dogs with Fair hips, produce an enormous amount of puppies, primarily use their own stud dog(s), have obtained no IPO titles on any of the breeding dogs they own and produce puppies that are a mix of lines and pedigree that lack correct structure and are of poor quality... When researching breeders ask lots of questions, look for a Quality bred german shepherd from a responsible breeder! Here are just a few questions to consider:
> 
> 1. Are the dam and sire OFA Good hip/normal elbow certified?
> 2. Do either dam or sire have any show rating (SG, V, VA...) or working titles(IPO..)?
> ...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

gsd1961 said:


> If you pay $2,000 and up for a puppy, both sire and dam better have at least Good hips


Nope - still not valid.....I have seen dogs FAIL - terrible pictures....and be redone and go Good....this is all subjective....I have seen dogs go GOOD that I still am shaking my head over....

Fair hips are passing - I bred to a Fair male - all pups done were Goods....and the next generation I have 6 Goods and 1 fair....and the xrays on the Fair are mediocre....

Passing is passing - Fair is NOT a negative

Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

gsd1961 - your posts might be more credible if you hadn't joined to specifically give a bad review on this breeder under the guise of "I am writing for those looking for a gsd pup to do their research and find a reputable breeder. I find the First breeder listed to not be a reputable one. After researching this particular breeder"

Your posts ooze sour grapes.


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## gsd1961 (Feb 3, 2016)

It is what it is.... This breeder is simply not breeding quality dogs... Go on the website and have a look for yourself. And as for breeding dogs with fair hips I am saying that as a responsible breeder it is best to breed those with good or excellent hips that also have a pedigree with dogs with good/excellent (A2/A1 hips). From the OFA website: "A fair hip grade: minor irregularities in the hip joint exist. The hip joint is wider than a good hip phenotype due to the ball slightly slipping out of the socket causing a minor degree of joint incongruency." I would also like to point out that three radiologists look at the dogs hip x-Rays when they are summitted to OFA.... It is very likely that with a hip grade of fair, one of those radiologists could have graded that dog as having mild hip dysplasia (if two radiologists reported fair and one reported mild- the final grade would be Fair).


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## gsd1961 (Feb 3, 2016)

Gwenhwyfair- my question of "does the breeder own the sire of the litter and if so, how often do they breed to him?" was to point out that this particular breeder has consistently used their stud dog to sire many of their litters- people need to be made aware of the backyard breeder (the one that owns both sire and dam and constantly breeds them). I agree with you that as a breeder it is important to find an outside male that is a good match for their female. I also find absolutely no benefit to the breed to mix the lines (i.e. breed a show line to a working line). Lastly, not all puppies from a litter will will turn out to be breeding quality (after all, a breeder's expectations for a breeding dog should be set high- excellent temperament, good hips, nice conformation, working ability, trainability, etc, etc.... So for dogs that are just being sold as pets, a responsible breeder should mandate that all puppies sold as family companions be spayed/neutered at a reasonable age.... I find it irresponsible that this particular breeder is encouraging an owner of one of their dogs (that is clearly just a pet) to use this dog for stud.


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