# Please critique pedigree- agility dog



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I am hoping someone may be willing to put in the time to look through this pedigree for me. I saw a dog from this K litter at the trial this weekend and I was plenty impressed with her (at least as an agility dog). She was very fast and had what appeared to me to be strong drive. She was seemingly well structured and had good "rebound" from correction. I happened to be bar setting in a corner of the ring where she blew a contact and the owner gave her a sharp "No!" (which is about as "harsh" as you can get _inside_ the agility ring). The dog had no issues with it; didn't shut down; didn't appear to be phased; and continued on with the course as fast, sharp, and focused as she started. Yes, I know that's not much of a correction to be judging nerve from- but that's all I have to go on. Overall, I thought the dog was a great representation of what a GSD agility dog should look like.

Keeper vom Kriegershaus - German Shepherd Dog

Thanks!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Very nice pedigree, she's got some pretty good and very old names in there. That dog should be capable of much more than _just (not that it's easy)_Agility.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks Mrs.K! I was quite impressed with her, and did get some time to speak with her owner about the struggles of living with her. She said she has to stay very active with her- multiple walks a day (totaling more than 4 miles), biking with her, agility of course, doggie treadmill in the winter, etc, etc. Sounds like the dog has plenty of energy for sure. And again- I only have the trial experience to go on, so I'll say that based on her quietness (not a _peep_) in the crate- she must have a nice off switch as well.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

wildo said:


> Thanks Mrs.K! I was quite impressed with her, and did get some time to speak with her owner about the struggles of living with her. She said she has to stay very active with her- multiple walks a day (totaling more than 4 miles), biking with her, agility of course, doggie treadmill in the winter, etc, etc. Sounds like the dog has plenty of energy for sure. And again- I only have the trial experience to go on, so I'll say that based on her quietness (not a _peep_) in the crate- she must have a nice off switch as well.


Best way to find what you want is to do exactly what you are doing... find the 'type' you want. Talk to people that have pups from that breeder. Then start building (or not  ) a relationship with the breeder. Finding out THEIR goals for their dogs and if you agree and want to support it with your money and your mouth! 

I may find a great dog at a trial but then talk to the breeder and hear they actually are looking for much higher drives and AGGRESSION in their dogs. They may have many many litters each year and only outdoor kennel all there many dogs. For me, those are exclusionary breeder attributes (that's for me  ). Or they refuse to let me talk to/email any other puppy owners from the past.....

So it's the complete research that is involved, and time. But your start is EXACTLY right!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Mrs.K- I am curious if you are willing to do a more in depth review. In looking at the pedigree, I see Lord on the sire side- but not sure I recognize any of the other names. The sire side also appears to have some nice OFA scores in early generations with Isar vom Leerburg. I _think_ "FH-100" is a perfect score in some sport which Wessex vom Leerburg boasts. 

On the dam side, I see (what I think is "the typical working line lineage") Fero, Troll, Yoschy- and I think Andy von der Bildsaule is a big name as well? So the dam side seems to have some nice names.

And all that is interesting to me. But it's all rather aesthetic. I am not sure who supplies drives, nerve, or temperament. 

Also interesting to me is that the sire and dam are from the same kennel- and be it a K litter, I wonder if that says anything (as in- the breeder is trying to accomplish something)? I don't know if that means anything or not. Just saying that in many of the pedigrees I've seen posted here, it doesn't seem common to see the same kennel names on the sire and dam. I could very well be wrong in that.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I don't know anything about Agility but I would love to see Otis in a pedigree I was considering!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

robk said:


> I don't know anything about Agility but I would love to see Otis in a pedigree I was considering!


Why?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

wildo said:


> Why?


 Leerburg Stud Dog Otis

Otis is a dog who has actually done the work that schutzhund dogs pretend to do!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks- the Leerburg info was very helpful indeed. Wow- Otis does appear to be a superstar dog. And I am so glad to see this! If I hadn't met "Keeper" I might see a pedigree like this and view this as _way_ too much dog for me. I am positive I could handle Keeper- and seeing these massively awesome dogs in her pedigree are giving me a lot of insight into what I might want in the future.

From the leerburg site:


> Otis is a German Import, he is an outstanding dog. He is a very dark brown sable of substantial size (@ 90 pounds). He has a large head with big bones. His hips are "A" stamp Normal which is the highest hip rating that Germany gives.
> Otis is a certified dual purpose narcotics patrol dog. For three years before coming to our kennel Otis worked as a patrol dog for a major city located 30 miles north of the Mexican border. He has literally found hundreds of pounds of narcotics and has been involved in the apprehension of many felony suspects. He was forced to bite approximatly 15 of these suspects that resisted arrest.
> Otis has a pedigree to die for. His sire (Mink) was in the German Bundessieger. Many Mink sons have competed in the Bundessieger, (in fact Otis's full sister (Olive) finished 13th in the 1996 BSP) with the most well known being the dog that finished second in 1992 and 1993 (Lewis Matitescka). Mink is known for producing very, very hard working dogs and Otis certainly falls into this category.
> In the November 1995 issue of the SV Zietung there was an article that listed several hundred stud dogs according to their hip production. Mink Haus Wittfeld (Otis's father) was the number one dog on that list. I am very proud of this fact. Otis will continue on in the footsteps of Natan Busecker Schloos Sch # OFA Excellent (my retired stud dog) and the Leerburg tradition of producing bloodlines with the best possibility of good hips in our off spring.
> ...


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## Saxtonhill (Jan 9, 2007)

You'll get speed from Otis Jacobiner Schloss and Jenny/Steffi Tiekerhook.  

Some people didn't like the Otis offspring...but you have to be able to handle a high-energy dog, train with agility people who understand high-drive dogs, and have the time to give a high-energy dog the daily exercise it needs. So for the right person, Otis can be a good dog to have in an agility pedigree. 

Otis was also an excellent tracking dog, which also comes through in many of his decendants, but again, you have the high energy factor and you need to be patient.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

When I first started with the dogs, I had people put me off WL as possibly too much dog. This meant I ended up with not enough dog for quite awhile! There is great variety in the WL breedings that are individually done. Looking for the traits and goals of the breeding from an experienced and successful breeder can get you a good chance at a match. Some of t.he early dogs I got in lieu of the "too much dog" did not have the willingness and aptitudes the WL dogs I finally got did. I discovered I did not start with "easier" dogs at all!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think the not so easy dogs to start with are better, we learn so much from them, the good and the bad

I tend to go for 'type' vs pedigrees when it comes to agility , Masi is the type I like, long legged, streamlined, not a real heavy bulky dog, however, Masi has decided she is not 'into" agility which is a chance one takes when getting a puppy, she is more into tracking which is fine by me, she is what she is Of course her brother enzo is cleaning up in the agility ring as did their father Max..Enzo is probably going to go farther since he was started younger and wanda has learned much from Maxanyhow I digress..

Willy, if you ever get to check out Ben Philbert's gsd past and present, that guy ends up with the best running gsd's I have ever seen out there He's in New England but does travel..His wife is Erin Shaefer a trainer at the club I was in, and world team competitor, she runs shelties..

I'll have to remember the club he runs, so you can check out some of his dogs, memory escapes me now 

In the end, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't tend to look at pedigrees (altho they do interest me), I am looking more at body type and attitude when it comes down to it..


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> In the end, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't tend to look at pedigrees (altho they do interest me), I am looking more at body type and attitude when it comes down to it..


In general, I am in agreement with you. However, wouldn't you say that a lot of the "attitude" of the dog comes from its pedigree? Well, that was my assumption anyway. I figured I'd start compiling a list of the dogs I like in order to find a trend in their pedigree for many years from now when I'm ready for another pup. Seems logical to me...

I will definitely google around for Ben Philbert. Thanks!

[EDIT]- Oh, now this is interesting! http://www.dizzydogs.com/Dizzy_German_Shepherd_Dog_Litters1.htm Ben Philbert's dog Vega is a Tang offspring??


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Wildo you will have to look at each and every dog as your prospect . Look for angulation and athleticism and speed and directabilty.
Carmen


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

wildo said:


> [EDIT]- Oh, now this is interesting! Dizzy German Shepherd Dogs Litters NJ Ben Philbert's dog Vega is a Tang offspring??


Or, as some might say, "Vega's a Bandit offspring!" 

I had 2 litters out of Bandit from different dams--some super puppies. But I also have gotten to watch the Tang litter's growth and progress on Bandit's Facebook page, and that's been fun.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

yes, I do see a nice dog and of course want to know who it's out of,,and I do factor that in, but it's not the top of my list when looking..

ANd yes, that's Ben's dawg now His now passed gsd, was a rescue I believe, and that dog was phenomonal


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