# RAW ratios? What is the right ratio?



## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

I had a RAW feeding consultation last year. I was informed to feed my dog the following:

50% Raw Meaty Bone
45% Muscle Meat
5% Organ

However, a GSD specialist told me Tripe needs to be part of the formula or else there is no point in feeding raw.

I've seen other places say 80% Muscle Meat, 10% Raw Meaty Bone, 10% Organ. Wow! 80% muscle meat? Where do they get this from?

Then I see varying formulas on this forum.

So what is the right way and why?


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## sterlingmaloryarcher (Aug 16, 2014)

Both kinda work out to be very similar ratios depending on how you look at it.

The first ratio, 50/45/5, assumes that half of the diet is coming from meaty bones (like chicken leg quarters), 45% from boneless meat (like heart), and then the 5% organ. If you took off all the meat from the chicken leg quarter, then it would probably work out to be very close to the second ratio of meat/bone/organ.

The second ratio, 80/10/10, is common in prey model raw and calculates individual percentages of the meat and bone that you feed so you get 80% meat and 10% bone. And then 10% organ (5% liver, 5% secreting organs). So theoretically you could be feeding the same meals and getting both ratios correct, although I haven't really done the math to work that out precisely; that's just what I've heard most often.

Prey model raw encourages the 80/10/10 formula, which is what I follow, and I personally think it's easier to calculate and plan meals. It depends on what line of raw feeding you want to follow as well.

Even if you don't have tripe, I would still say there are huge benefits to feeding raw. Green tripe is certainly a very beneficial addition to a raw diet, but just because you can't acquire green tripe right away doesn't mean you can't start raw feeding. There are many other benefits to raw feeding that can be gotten before the addition of tripe into the diet (although it certainly is an excellent thing to add). The majority of people I know who feed raw have tripe as more of a treat or special addition and not so much a constant addition to a meal.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't think there is really one ratio that is 'right' - I've seen so many different ones being recommended. I'd say as long as you keep to about 5 - 10 % organ meats, the rest being a mix of MM and RMB, you are on the right path. I feed about the same ratios you do, some people here feed more like 80% MM (well, some meals I feed end up being more MM, others more RMB, but the key is that they should balance out in the long run). 

I haven't found any source or raw tripe here, and haven't been feeding it. Sometimes I get canned tripe - though I know that the main advantage of raw tripe - the enzymes - are not in canned. Since I don't have raw green tripe, I supplement with vitamins and probiotics. I think I will also start adding digestive enzymes.


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

Ok thanks. That is helpful. I was told the ratios I posted were "Prey Model". But anyhow....

I figure if I start feeding raw, whether I'm a bit off or not, it's still better than kibble. I've been spending $90/bag for Orijen Regional Red which he poos out 4x/day (and large poos). I mean, how can that be good for a dog? 

Feeding RAW is going to cost me $225-$270/month, but I know he's not going to poo it all out in the yard.

On a side note, I found a meat processing plant that sells raw beef tripe for $0.30/pound. You can't beat that!


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## sterlingmaloryarcher (Aug 16, 2014)

spacenuts said:


> Ok thanks. That is helpful. I was told the ratios I posted were "Prey Model". But anyhow....
> 
> I figure if I start feeding raw, whether I'm a bit off or not, it's still better than kibble. I've been spending $90/bag for Orijen Regional Red which he poos out 4x/day (and large poos). I mean, how can that be good for a dog?
> 
> ...


I was actually going to try Orijen Regional Red for Archer before I decided to try raw. I have been able to feed raw for much less because I stock up with sales, have gotten free meat from Craigslist, and plan to get some scraps and leftovers from hunters and butchers.

Make sure it will be green unbleached tripe. The bleached stuff (what you see in the grocery store) is fine for humans but has no nutritional value for the dogs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I do not measure. I feed a lot of variety, incl. tripe. They do well on this.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

spacenuts said:


> \
> 
> Feeding RAW is going to cost me $225-$270/month, but I know he's not going to poo it all out in the yard.


WHAT???!!! You need to find suppliers. That is a CRAZY amount of money. You can buy commercial raw and spend way less than that.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

That is about right for what we pay for meat in Canada - even with hitting all the major sales and stocking up. I often can't believe how low your grocery prices are in the US.

Though finding a good supplier and making deals with small scale farmers and having friends who are hunters helps a lot!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Oh wow. I hope your wages are far higher than ours since the value of your dollar is very close to ours. I get poultry parts from a local butcher at 0.25/lb. Other items from other butchers for less than $1/lb


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

As an example, a whole roasting chicken here is around 9 - 10 dollars.

Ground beef is 5 dollars a lb. 

Even the stuff you would expect to be cheap like beef tongue, heart, and liver costs about as much as ground beef. 

A pork hock if 5 dollars. (I'm not making these prices up.) I used to get a lot of my meats from a wholesaler, but they recently stopped selling directly to the public - now I just stalk the sales bin at my local grocery store.  

I'm not really up on numbers, but I do believe that in general incomes are higher here, but the higher cost of living and higher taxes evens everything out.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Same around here. Cheapest beef is $4 per pound, cheapest chicken is 50 c per pound. Lamb is 5. I don't remember prices for everything else but it's close


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Castlemaid said:


> As an example, a whole roasting chicken here is around 9 - 10 dollars.
> 
> Ground beef is 5 dollars a lb.
> 
> ...


That's crazy! We pay those prices for organic, home raised, meats. I spend that kind of budget on groceries for a whole month. I think it costs me roughly $50/mth per dog and far, far less for the cat.


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> WHAT???!!! You need to find suppliers. That is a CRAZY amount of money. You can buy commercial raw and spend way less than that.


That is finding suppliers.

Commercial raw would be more.....

Most places I called (farms, meat processing plants, butchers, etc.) are $3/lb. for beef. That's $7.50-$9/day for my 100lb dog.

Found a rabbit farmer that sells whole prey rabbits - $3/lb.

My dog is allergic to chicken and turkey, which would be cheaper - found chicken neck/backs for $0.50. Oh well.

But I don't know how alot of you are getting most meat for under $1/lb. Living wages might be a factor. Minimum wage here was $10.25/hour, and they recently raised it to $11/hour. I know alot of areas in the U.S. don't even come close to that. 

Even lamb farmers are selling their freezer burnt meat - $4+ per pound.

I was excited when i found the raw tripe for $0.30/pound, but it makes me think something is wrong with it. I have to go there to investigate.

I could feed commercially prepared cooked lamb dinners for $6/day, so only $180 month.

Maybe I have to dig deeper?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

My advice: Get a big freezer, and make friends with hunters! I usually get a few deer and at least one moose (carcass, bones, trimmings) each fall. Wonderful stuff, and it feeds my dogs for months!


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

On a side note, my dad is a beef farmer. I live on one of his farms with beef cows and calves! But he ships his cattle when it's time for them to go - that should tell us something.

Alot of the abattoirs have all closed around here. Politics I'm guessing.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

How do you know he's allergic to chicken and turkey? Also, I'd start with 2 lbs a day and go from there. 
If he's really allergic then what will you give for edible bone? Usually that's chicken. Though I also give lamb ribs, veal ribs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rabbit is about the same here. 

I think the butchers just aren't jacking the prices on their "parts". One of our locals sells a combined beef hearts/tongues/organs for 0.75/lb. It's items they would otherwise send to rendering. They also sell their lamb, pork and beef necks at 0.60/lb.

Same with the poultry parts at 0.25/lb. He's not making any money and all proceeds are donated to the local track team.

We also have form groups to get better deals with larger purchases. Next week we're getting duck in. Necks, wings and hearts at 0.50/lb.

As far as living wages, I think our minimum wage is 7.25? Not sure. I make far more than your minimum wage and the average wage in our area is probably around $15. So not sure if that really factors in. I think we spend our money differently. You have higher taxes but socialized medicine. We have lower taxes and large out of pocket costs for health insurance, meds and doctors.


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

lalachka said:


> How do you know he's allergic to chicken and turkey? Also, I'd start with 2 lbs a day and go from there.
> If he's really allergic then what will you give for edible bone? Usually that's chicken. Though I also give lamb ribs, veal ribs.


He gets diarrhea and chews his feet. Kibble and raw. Never fails. I think turkey is worse.

For edible bone, I have given him beef in the past.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

spacenuts said:


> He gets diarrhea and chews his feet. Kibble and raw. Never fails. I think turkey is worse.
> 
> For edible bone, I have given him beef in the past.


That sucks. My friend's dog has the same problem. 

Which part of beef as edible?


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Are there any raw-feeding coops in your area? I joined one recently and found a lot of great deals! Rabbit and lamb are expensive here too. So is beef tongue - $4-5/lb at grocery stores! I can get chicken necks and frames for $0.40/lb and chicken quarters for $0.56/lb. I can get lots of ground blends for around $2/lb. Lots of other muscle meat is less than $1/lb through the coop.


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

For everyone's interest, here is a guy near Barrie, Ontario that sells raw food for dogs. He goes around to abattoirs and collects this stuff and then sells it to consumers. His prices are better than many butchers and farmers:

Product Menu - Raw4Dogs | Raw4Dogs

But as you can see, nothing under $1.

Not sure what's been done to the meat or what antibiotics and hormones have been injected into the animals. But since the meat was for human consumption, I guess I shouldn't worry about feeding it to my pup.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I only use meat for human consumption. The parts may not be sellable but the animal as a whole was meant for humans. So I don't worry about it.

Look on Craigslist. Hunting season is coming up and people are cleaning out their freezers to make room. I've seen people get a freezer full of wild game for nothing.

Contact the local butchers directly if possible.


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

lalachka said:


> Which part of beef as edible?


Beef neck and ribs. 

Raided my parents deep freezer a while ago which was full of beef and pork from at least 10 years ago, if not longer. I was able to try out the 50-45-5 feeding guide with my big puppy and he did so well. Stools much smaller, firmer and less frequent. I didn't transition or anything - just one day said "here you go - enjoy!". 

At one point he did get the runs - I'm pretty sure it was the pork though.

It was an interesting experience chopping up beef heart on your kitchen counter


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

osito23 said:


> Are there any raw-feeding coops in your area? I joined one recently and found a lot of great deals!


I've heard of them, but to be honest, I don't really know what they are. Briefly, what is the general scoop on them?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you can find a co-op, you'll be able to make better contacts and a group of people will often get a good discount. Ex: the duck we are getting. We're ordering 800# of it at one time split between about 8 people. Order in bulk, save money. People make contacts with locals for their "scraps" or with meat packing plants and pass on teh savings and contacts.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

spacenuts said:


> Beef neck and ribs.
> 
> Raided my parents deep freezer a while ago which was full of beef and pork from at least 10 years ago, if not longer. I was able to try out the 50-45-5 feeding guide with my big puppy and he did so well. Stools much smaller, firmer and less frequent. I didn't transition or anything - just one day said "here you go - enjoy!".
> 
> ...


Lol why an interesting experience? My kitchen counter seen some weird stuff. 
My latest batch of mear was all stripped from bone and grounded so I can use outside for training. Lol that was a lot of work and my kitchen looked scary


In any case. I love feeding raw. I like the results (his health and poops) and the process. And just watching him eat this stuff is so rewarding. Eating kibble isn't exciting to watch at all


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> If you can find a co-op, you'll be able to make better contacts and a group of people will often get a good discount. Ex: the duck we are getting. We're ordering 800# of it at one time split between about 8 people. Order in bulk, save money. People make contacts with locals for their "scraps" or with meat packing plants and pass on teh savings and contacts.


This. My coop has 8 different suppliers to choose from with bulk pricing discounts. You can get the regular staple meat at a great price plus have plenty of exotic options to choose from. Today I bought 40# of chicken frames and 30# of turkey necks for $40. I have some beef heart, tripe, and ground mixes coming in on Tuesday for $0.75-$2/lb. It definitely beats shopping at the grocery store!


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## spacenuts (May 30, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I'll see what I can do about this co-op thing.

I may just buy commercial raw for now. Kibble is driving me crazy.


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