# Contacts at a trial



## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

Hi all, 

I was wondering how you deal with failed contacts at a trial. For instance, if your dog has 2o2o contacts but instead of stopping he just keeps running but he did hit the yellow zone, would you stop and correct even though he got the contact or would you keep running since you could still get a Q?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Once you start letting your dog get away with blowing his contacts, it's really hard to get back. At a trial you can't correct, but many people will really make a point to their dogs to stop and many will walk off the course if their dogs blows it.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

In some venues you can train in the ring, like NADAC. I think I see people in USDAA telling their dogs to go back and get the contact, they are E'd of course, but I don't think they are dismissed.

Personally, I never pull my dog off of a course, I just don't believe in it. If he blows contacts I'll mark it with my voice, uh-oh or something like that, and make sure we work extra hard on them in practice.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Elaine said:


> Once you start letting your dog get away with blowing his contacts, it's really hard to get back. At a trial you can't correct, but many people will really make a point to their dogs to stop and many will walk off the course if their dogs blows it.


I try to have trials be JUST like classes.

So, my question is, what do you do when a contact is blown in CLASS? I'm betting you don't just run on....

I personally always 'mark' a blown contact. Class or trial. Though in class I can clearly really work the contact for a while. 

I train a 2on/2off and even with Bretta working on her MACH 3 I RUN while my dog is on a contact but when I get to the end I stop dead for at least a sec to stare at the down contact where my dog SHOULD be in a 2on/2off staring adoringly into my eyes and waiting for the release. I have Bretta on a quick release now so when you watch our runs, you can't hear my 'ok' and it looks like she just slows a bit and then we move on. But I'm watching and if she doesn't 'hit the position' and goes on without me, I'll still be standing there all surprised and shocked and amazed and.....

If they are NOT standing 'in the position/staring adoringly at me' then I DO not locate my dog and run to catch up to them. Instead my 2 feet do NOT move (hey, I know my position  ) and I pretend I'm worried and confused and do NOT move and surprisingly my dogs then always come back to me (did I mention I'm not moving and still at the bottom of the contact????). 

Due to the fact this is EXACTLY the same behavior I use in class, my dogs quickly come back and I've even had them flip back up into a 2on/2off (which can be considered training and get us whistled off, but that's ok) though GENERALLY I just get them back near the end and then WE move on. 

Contacts can ALWAYS be an issue for us when our dogs are cranked up and having fun. To the extent I now LOVE when we have NQ'ed (well, I don't love the NQ :wild: ) but I love the TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES when we NQ. Because I immediately go into 'training mode' at a trial. And you can get away with this. I will throw in all the front crosses I wasn't sure I'd get in, and (more importantly) I will test the contacts! Throwing in extra front crosses (and then cross back if it would mess up the next part of the course) and making them stay on while I leave them. Something I'd never really trust them on if I was still going for a Q.

Me flipping into 'training mode' is why I do NOT walk my dog off the course if they blow a contact. I always mark it for them, so they know 'oops', and depending where it is on the course there may be 1 or 2 more contacts left on the course to work thru.

Watch this run with Bretta, we knock a bar cause of my big fat mouth  but look at her at the dogwalk at the end! That's 100% me in training mode.





 
This is an interesting clip comparing a GSD with a running contact with my Bretta and her 2on/2off on the same course. I run against this other GSD all the time and it's funny how we flip flop back and forth with our placements all the time, I will never switch to the running contact to save the small amount of time. It's very clear on the video how I stop and make her stick the dogwalk contact before finishing the course.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Think it depends your dog.

When I first started training Mulder I was adamant about 2o2o contacts and would stop and enforce it EVERY time.

But the more I worked with him, the less I found actually waiting for the release wasn't necessary. Mulder is a more methodical runner, he's not about reckless speed, so he's never really going fast enough to sail over them anyway. Plus he always hits his contacts, even after I stopped marking them. 

A faster dog in need of more precise control may require a stricter regiment, totally depends on the animal.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

My instructor is all for walking off the course but I don't see how my dog will learn from this. I like your idea MaggieRoseLee and I think I will try going into training mode. At least this way I'm still getting some training in. 


MaggieRoseLee said:


> I personally always 'mark' a blown contact. Class or trial. Though in class I can clearly really work the contact for a while.


I love your dogs name 


atravis said:


> When I first started training Mulder I was adamant about 2o2o contacts and would stop and enforce it EVERY time.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

The reason some people will walk or carry their dogs off the course when they misbehave is because by letting them continue the dog is rewarded for their behavior. By taking them off, they do not get the reward. It's very effective for some dogs in some circumstances.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Elaine said:


> The reason some people will walk or carry their dogs off the course when they misbehave is because by letting them continue the dog is rewarded for their behavior. By taking them off, they do not get the reward. It's very effective for some dogs in some circumstances.


While that is true, I'd say about 95% of the time when I see handlers do this (and it's not often) because of a contact issue they do it LATE and after the dog has blown the contact and gone onto a tunnel/jump/weaving/whatever.

So the handler is *LATE* to catch the dog. LATE to carry the dog. And what I see marked, and when the handler gets the speedy dog's attention, is NOT THE MISSED CONTACT.

I see the tunnel/jump/weaving/whatever getting accidentally marked cause that's what the dog did last before getting carried off.

When I mark a contact it's absolutely clear WHERE I am and that I'm acting just like I do in class if a contact is blown. EXACTLY the way I act in class. All shocked! AMAZED! Surprised and saying so :wild: .

THIS:



> letting them continue the dog is rewarded for their behavior


is only a partial statement because while my dog did blow the contact and continue, it was just for a sec and extremely unsatisfying because they have to go back to me and the specific area of the 'issue' (I'm able to EXACTLY mark the when/where) and then the dog can only go on when I am ready and it's again a 'we' type operation.

Fact of the matter is my dogs behave differently at a trial. They just do. And if I also act differently at a trial by ALLOWING THEM TO CONTINUE TO RUN and chasing after them after a blown contact so I don't lose a Q, that is in NO WAY what I do in class. My instructors would kill me! So I need to be consistant when training in class. Then take those same methods and have the same expectations in trials.

Realizing that when I do get to the trial, chances are I will be amazed at the crap my dogs will throw at me. Contacts and weavepoles are the first things that tend to get forgotten by the dogs with the thrills and speed of a trial. 

Since I know this, I have a clear picture of what I expect from myself at each and every contact, and what will happen before we move on. I choose NOT to blow my time in the ring with 3 chances to practice contacts by leaving the ring. Instead, I look at it as 3 chances to teach my pup that what is good for class is exactly the same as a trial. Look, Mom has the same expectations so keep your brain in your head!

This is not saying removing the dog from the ring never works. And some handlers are able to be very precise and scoop up their dog the sec it bounces over the contact and BEFORE it rewards itself by taking the next obstacle. But not me!


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