# Petsmart policy: what do you think?



## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Why It Matters That PetSmart Discriminates Against Pit Bulls*|*Arin Greenwood

I am afraid I don't know how to insert a link, but what this article says is that Petsmart discriminates against pitbulls by refusing to let them play with other dogs at daycare. Apparently, pit bulls are welcome at the store on leash and in training classes, etc.

I am wondering, from those of you who also have pitbulls, what is your opinion on this? I have been very vocal in my disagreement with breed bias. However, I have heard from some serious bully folks that their dogs do tend to be dog aggressive and should never go to dog parks and such. In my shelter work, I have seen bully breeds to be no more inclined to fight with other dogs than any other breed.

So, what is the general opinion about this? For me, it is kind of a moot issue, as I would never take my dog to a daycare anyway. But I am trying to decide whether or not to boycott Petsmart. Are they being discriminatory? Or just using common sense?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I think its a good policy.

They dont have employees that are trained to spot fights before they occur or break them up after theyve kicked off so why add any additional risk to an already potentially bad situation?

It shouldnt just extend to pitbulls it should probably apply to shepherds huskys and any edgy dogs too. They simply cant handle it.

Im an expert at getting groups of dogs that probably shouldnt be put together to get along in big groups. I do it almost everyday and I view the pitbulls with suspicion and more often than not when I decide not to bother risking it with a dog it is usually a bully breed. Not all of them have issues in groups but enough of them do that its a stereotyped dog for a reason.

People get all up in arms calling it "breed descrimination" like it was some kind of continuation of the civil rights movement. Its not. The reality is a lot of them are dog aggressive or potential dog fighters and they dont have the knowledge or skill to evaluate the ones that are fine from the ones that are not without causing an issue in which a dog may get hurt.

Sending a dog to a petsmart daycare is asking for trouble anyway for a whole variety of reasons, but thats a separate topic.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I think Pit Bulls are just like any other breed. Their personality depends on breeding and care and training by their owners. There are some that can never be friendly with other dogs not in their own family just due to genetics, but others can be big ole cuddle bugs. I have seen and known both personally. We did own one that was aggressive. We did not make him aggressive, it was just in his genes. He was kept safely by us always in his kennel or on a leash or in the house so no one and no animal was harmed. We have a fenced yard to keep other dogs out. Other Pits I've known were the biggest babys ever, wanting to sit in your lap, give you a kiss, etc. It isn't the breed, it is the individual dog just as with any breed. German Shepherds can be aggressive and they can also be big babies with the family so I don't believe any one definition is correct for any breed. Just my opinion.


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## Pretzels (Aug 11, 2014)

While I am not a fan of breed discrimination generally. I kind of agree with petsmart on this. I do think its common sense.
I think that some other breeds could have been put on the list as well. I think some breeds and their natural temperaments (in general) are not so well suited for a daycare situation where they are just hanging with a group of random dogs in close-ish quarters all day. 

I like pit bulls, and I think they can be great dogs with responsible owners. But I have gone to a local dog park (which are controversial on this forum for good reason btw! I am very careful!) almost every day for the last 5 or 6 months. The few bad fights I have seen did involve pit bulls, with the exception of one, that was started by a bulldog mix. 

Petsmart still welcomes them into the store and training classes. So I think they are just using common sense. I think there are worse breeds than pit bulls for daycare situations that could have been put on the list as well so it wouldn't just be singling out the one breed however.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

I agree with it partially, BUT also think other breeds should be added to the list. Most daycares do not have that many staff on hand to watch every single dog. Think about it. At a dog park, the owner to pet ratio is greater than the staff to dog ratio at a daycare...yet fights break out ALL the time at the parks. There are maybe 4 or 5 staff who watch 20+ dogs at daycare. I personally would never take my dog to a daycare...but not knocking those who like to. I think they are looking at a big picture and unfortunately bully breeds have a bad rap. They should have been fair and added other breeds to this... I will still go to Petsmart though. I like their products and my dog enjoys going.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

I frankly think that Petsmart shouldn't have a dog day care AT ALL. The one's that I've seen: groups of dogs in a room ALONE. No attendants at all. Having a clerk walk by occasionally while helping customers or stocking shelves does NOT count as supervision.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

What Baillif said.

Agree with Angela too. I'm not a big fan of petsmart "services" in general, except Banfield because it is staffed by veterinarians who have gotten their degrees and same with the vet techs. 

As for training, grooming, day care, boarding, nope.

It's built on a corporate model of "less is better" and "time is money". Two things that don't mix well with animal care.

See the high turnover in those areas, people who care about doing those jobs right quickly burn out and quit. My friend was a groomer there and the manager hassled her about taking too long with unsocialized badly matted dogs.....she quit and set up her own grooming business. She hated being forced to rush when it was not in the best interest of the dogs.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

angelas, I totally agree with what you said!

I do think that some breeds are more likely to get along in pack formation than others, even though of course individuals can be exceptions. I hate to admit that, at the shelter, GSDs seem notoriously likely to pick fights with other dogs. I think more often than our pit bulls.


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

totally awesome policy. my wife works at a daycare and they don't allow pitbulls either. it's for a reason other than looks.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I agree with Bailif, for once!

And that's coming from a previous pittie owner who sent her dog to daycare.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Also agree with Bailiff. There's also the fact that it's not so much a company policy as it is an insurance requirement. The company's isurance won't cover us as employees or the other dogs in camp if we allow a pitbull in. 

I personally don't like the camps either even though I work there and have to run them. The space is way too small, the "training" to run the camp is a joke, and the "behavioral assessment" is filled out by the owner who could say pretty much anything about their dog. I've heard there are better hotels, but my manager has a tendency to refuse to pull dogs that frequently fight because she doesn't want to have to talk to the owners. It's a mess, honestly.

Finally, angelas if you see a daycamp without an attendant in it, alert someone. It's policy that someone be in there at all times. Leaving a daycamp without someone in there is grounds for immediate termination.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks Pax for explaining the reasons for this policy.


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## evilpirateduck (May 21, 2014)

Working at Petsmart, and having some experience with the hotel, I feel the need to point out; Petsmart does not allow ANY bully breed in the play sessions. Bull terriers, American bullies, staffies, or Pits - they're not allowed. So it's not just solely Pitties. c:


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

*Petsmart*

I personally will only be using petsmart for Banfield services when I get my new dog. I've always had a problem with their policies, especially their policies of not taking your dog out to walk it. I think that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you are afraid of my dog running away,put a leash on its collar, and put a harness on it, then put a leash on that! The dog won't run away, still afraid? Put a gentle leader on. Three things! Put a leash on that! The dog is not running away if you have three leashes attached to different parts of its body. seriously petsmart ugh! And now I find out about their ban on bully breeds in the daycare. Well... I guess I'm not sure how I feel about that. My expertise is more with GSDs than bully breeds. I will say though, I have had bully breeds in my homes as clients. Most of them have been fine. One of them was really rough but not mean rough, playful rough and didn't know his own strength. I guess I'm not sure about where I stand on the bully breeds. However, I would never take my dog to petsmart daycare, I have better daycares lined up that I would trust a lot more with more personal supervision.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I personally will only be using petsmart for Banfield services when I get my new dog. I've always had a problem with their policies, especially their policies of not taking your dog out to walk it. I think that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you are afraid of my dog running away,put a leash on its collar, and put a harness on it, then put a leash on that! The dog won't run away, still afraid? Put a gentle leader on. Three things! Put a leash on that! The dog is not running away if you have three leashes attached to different parts of its body. seriously petsmart ugh! And now I find out about their ban on bully breeds in the daycare. Well... I guess I'm not sure how I feel about that. My expertise is more with GSDs than bully breeds. I will say though, I have had bully breeds in my homes as clients. Most of them have been fine. One of them was really rough but not mean rough, playful rough and didn't know his own strength. I guess I'm not sure about where I stand on the bully breeds. However, I would never take my dog to petsmart daycare, I have better daycares lined up that I would trust a lot more with more personal supervision.


Not taking the dog out to walk it? Banfield walks dogs that are staying with them, the hotel walks dogs at least twice a day, more if we aren't jampacked plus those that have playtime or daycamp can use the bathroom as they please. And grooming doesn't walk dogs because they aren't supposed to be a daycare for your dog. They groom your dog and then you're supposed to pick them up, not force a groomer to babysit it all day. When people are inconsiderate and leave their dog at the groomer's all day, the associates will often walk the dog around in the back to try to give it an opportunity to go to the bathroom. 

But again, not taking dogs outside circles back to insurance and safety measures. Most Petsmarts are situated in busy parking lots, malls, and similar areas. Do you really want retail associates walking your dog out into busy parking lots just to have them go on grass? Sure, we can put three leads on them and they have a minimal chance of escaping from us, but I can't even count how many times I've been nearly run over just walking into work. People are horrible and often don't yield for pedestrians. Do you think that's going to change just because I'm walking your dog out to pee on the grass?

Dogs are walked as often as possible and when possible. If you're going to abuse a service like grooming and use it as a daycare then sure your dog won't get walked because their service isn't set up to allow for potty walks. If you're talking about Banfield or the hotel, dogs are walked very frequently. So I really don't get where you have the idea that dogs "aren't walked".


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have a bully and am "meh" about this policy. I don't use Petsmart for grooming, boarding, or daycare so it makes no difference to me. My bully is quite social with other dogs and while she does like to play rough with my dogs, she adjusts her play based on the response of the other dog. We have a Golden that comes over to play who is more submissive and doesn't like to play as rough and she does great with him. She wants to play more than anything so she'll figure out how to get the other dog to reciprocate.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

It could be that policies have changed recently but when I did a puppy obedience class maybe 6 years ago, I inquired about their daycare. I was told the dogs don't get taken outside. They just get their exercise in an indoor play area with other dogs. I think its stupid and why would anyone pay to have tgeir dog get stuck in a cage and never get taken out. If the parking lot and everything is so dangerous and dogs shouldn't be walked there then they shouldn't even offer boarding. In the end, it is irrelevant to me because as I said, I don't take my dogs there except for banfield. The only reason I took my dog 6 years ago is because I had a gift certificate.


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## JoanMcM (Dec 5, 2013)

I agree with Angelas that Petsmart should not have playyards. And agree with the policy not to have pit bulls or AmStaffs or any bull breed there.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> It could be that policies have changed recently but when I did a puppy obedience class maybe 6 years ago, I inquired about their daycare. I was told the dogs don't get taken outside. They just get their exercise in an indoor play area with other dogs. I think its stupid and why would anyone pay to have tgeir dog get stuck in a cage and never get taken out. If the parking lot and everything is so dangerous and dogs shouldn't be walked there then they shouldn't even offer boarding. In the end, it is irrelevant to me because as I said, I don't take my dogs there except for banfield. The only reason I took my dog 6 years ago is because I had a gift certificate.


They don't get taken outdoors because it is a completely indoor facility. The dogs can go to the bathroom in the indoor playroom and runs. Dogs don't need to go outside to the grass to go to the bathroom. And every dog is taken out for walks and for opportunities to go to the bathroom multiple times per day. You realize many other facilities besides Petsmart do entirely indoor playrooms and runs, right? Just because everything is inside doesn't mean the dog isn't getting walked, exercised, and cared for. It really doesn't matter to me if you use the service or not, but I would prefer people don't spread misinformation if they don't know anything about the service offered.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

As someone who has spent a lot of time in dog parks (where in 10 years I saw only one real fight) I have to say that the worst breed was the german shepherd!!!!!! The gsds would pack up and chase down more submissive dogs. It was so bad that a lot of the gsd owners could only either go at very off hours or had to stop going altogether.


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## KentuckyFenway (Jul 27, 2014)

I'd just like to say to that Banfield, while inside many PetSmart's, is NOT the same company and at times have wildly different policies than PetSmart itself does. They rent space from PetSmart, but are not PS. Plus, after dozens of interactions with several different Banfields.... honestly, I wouldn't go there either. (I'm sure there are great ones just like there are great PS daycares and great PS salons. Each store is different.)


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Having just read the OP (making my way through the article and might finish it, just a disclaimer to take me with a grain of salt), my first thought is, "Insurance?" My homeowners won't cover pits.

I also have a friend who has a bully breed, and he has told me that male bullies get a little iffy with other dogs once they reach maturity. I don't really have experience with them myself, but I thought that was interesting to note.

Frankly, as an owner of a non-pit, I'm just fine with the policy. I would prefer not to have my dog around pits or pit mixes. You just never know what an individual dog's background or owner are like, and those to me are giant sources of risk. Obviously I can't wrap my puppy in bubble wrap and a hamster ball, but couple the unknowns with the way pit bulls are physically structured, and I don't feel I need to be around them with my dog. If you (general you) want to own one, fine, but I'll steer clear of you and your dog.

Ironically the other type of dog I'm always unsure about when my pup and I are out and around are other GSDs. Again, I have no idea about the dog's background but the poorly bred ones we've met have tended to be psychotic messes.

Add to all that the disclaimer that I am not likely Petsmart's target market for doggy daycare, so my opinion is just that.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Banfield is a HORRIBLE Veterinary entity as a whole, and I would never recommend them to anyone. Have only ever known 1 Banfield vet I thought was halfway competent. Not to mention they micro manage and control their veterinarians so much, your pet ISN'T getting treated by a vet. It's treated by some computer algorithm after your problems are typed in. 

That being said, I agree with this policy, although disagree as a whole with any daycare situation. Large groups of dogs together is just a recipe for disaster no matter what breeds are involved. 

But bully breeds ARE more prone to animal aggression. Along with many terriers, northern breeds, and some working breeds. To ignore that and pretend otherwise is just naive and ignorant to genetics and the history behind breeds. That's why people buy puppies, because it's "all how you raise them", and then they're shocked when Chomper turns 3 and kills poor little Fluffy from down the street.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I wondered about Banfield and had heard some stories that made me wonder how top down (corp driven) they are.

As for the rest, makes sense and well stated.




Anubis_Star said:


> Banfield is a HORRIBLE Veterinary entity as a whole, and I would never recommend them to anyone. Have only ever known 1 Banfield vet I thought was halfway competent. Not to mention they micro manage and control their veterinarians so much, your pet ISN'T getting treated by a vet. It's treated by some computer algorithm after your problems are typed in.
> 
> That being said, I agree with this policy, although disagree as a whole with any daycare situation. Large groups of dogs together is just a recipe for disaster no matter what breeds are involved.
> 
> But bully breeds ARE more prone to animal aggression. Along with many terriers, northern breeds, and some working breeds. To ignore that and pretend otherwise is just naive and ignorant to genetics and the history behind breeds. That's why people buy puppies, because it's "all how you raise them", and then they're shocked when Chomper turns 3 and kills poor little Fluffy from down the street.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I wondered about Banfield and had heard some stories that made me wonder how top down (corp driven) they are.
> 
> As for the rest, makes sense and well stated.



Yes I worked for a VCA hospital for a while, and as a corporate entity they're not bad. They don't pay their employees the best, but really they just tend to buy existing hospitals and allow them to continue managing and running pretty much as they were before. Doesn't feel like you're working for a large corporate chain. Banfield, on the other hand - obviously I've never worked there but know enough to know they act very much like a large corporate company, and I've seen enough cases transferred from different hospitals to know I would never want to have any of my animals treated there.

We use to joke when I was in school, sometimes people wouldn't hear about their internship placement for awhile because clinics get busy, and we would joke "haha, you must suck, they're going to send you to a Banfield"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Anubis_Star said:


> But bully breeds ARE more prone to animal aggression. Along with many terriers, northern breeds, and some working breeds. To ignore that and pretend otherwise is just naive and ignorant to genetics and the history behind breeds. That's why people buy puppies, because it's "all how you raise them", and then they're shocked when Chomper turns 3 and kills poor little Fluffy from down the street.


Our neighbor had pit bull, raised with love and care. Perfect dog, until it tore the hind quarter off her cousin's horse. It was devastating for all. 

My peeve with "bully breeds" is that Boxers are lumped into this group. These are not dogs that are naturally aggressive to other animals or people unless it's just plain bad breeding, which is true of any breed.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Our neighbor had pit bull, raised with love and care. Perfect dog, until it tore the hind quarter off her cousin's horse. It was devastating for all.
> 
> My peeve with "bully breeds" is that Boxers are lumped into this group. These are not dogs that are naturally aggressive to other animals or people unless it's just plain bad breeding, which is true of any breed.


hmmm, I would have to disagree slightly with this, as boxers are bred from mastiff and hunting type, and as in most dogs bred from hunting lines, animal aggression is to be expected. I have known a fair number of dog aggressive boxers, mostly males.

And boxers ARE a bully breed, as bully breeds include molossers, which boxers most certainly descend from

". . .a smaller Bullenbeisser of the purest stock was bred from the larger one by natural selection, due to the spreading popularity of the animal fights from England to the mainland and thence to Germany. . . .Through comparison of Spanish and French authors of the 12th to 14th centuries with authentic English and German sources we find that the so-called "Dogge" title was used as a collectivism for all strongly built, short-haired chase dogs with large heads, powerfully developed muzzles and triangle-like, stubbed and drooping upper lip, strong bodies and teeth and that the Doggen forms of all European countries from the middle ages up to the present day are limited to three types which have in the course of time developed into national breeds. They are:

The heavy Bullenbeisser (Mastiff).
The large hound evolved by crossing the Bullenbeisser with the old type Wolf or Deerhound (The Great Dane).
The small Bullenbeisser which represents a smaller form of the heavy Bullenbeisser through natural selection (The Boxer and the English Bulldog)."


Wagner quotes John E. L. Riedinger of Augsburg (1698-1767):
"The main portion of most old time German hunting packs were made up of coarse haired, big dogs with bush tails and wolfish heads called 'R�den.' They were supplied to the courts by the peasants in immense numbers and suffered great losses at every hunt, therefore no particular pains were taken to breed them. The Doggen and Bullenbeisser, however, knew instinctively how to tackle the game from behind and hold it in a way that kept them from serious injury yet gave the hunters time to reach the kill therefore they were more valuable to the hunt and were accordingly highly prized and painstakingly bred." (Wagner, 1950, p. 27)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

We own Boxers, so are fully aware of their temperaments and how they are bred and what they were bred for. IMO, they can not be compared to a true pit bull that has been bred for a different purpose. Which is what I was trying to say, poorly, when I said they are lumped in to the "bully breeds".

And, they haven't been bred for hunting in a hundred years, have they ever been in the US?, so their original lines and purpose are a moot point. The problem with today's Boxers is bad breeding. They have bred the high energy into high anxiety hot messes. Same line of thinking that created prey monkeys with poor nerve and no off switch in the GSDs. It's all very sad.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> We own Boxers, so are fully aware of their temperaments and how they are bred and what they were bred for. IMO, they can not be compared to a true pit bull that has been bred for a different purpose. Which is what I was trying to say, poorly, when I said they are lumped in to the "bully breeds".
> 
> And, they haven't been bred for hunting in a hundred years, have they ever been in the US?, so their original lines and purpose are a moot point. The problem with today's Boxers is bad breeding. They have bred the high energy into high anxiety hot messes. Same line of thinking that created prey monkeys with poor nerve and no off switch in the GSDs. It's all very sad.



haha I get what you're saying completely! Boxers are not pit bulls. But neither are boston terriers or bull terriers or bullmastiffs or french bulldogs or any other molossers that are still considered bully breeds. Bully breed doesn't = jerk aggressive "pit bull" that wants to kill everybody. It's simply a similar type of dogs that all descend from common ancient ancestry.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No, it's doesn't. But that's how people view the term "bully breed". To many, it's a description of temperament rather than a classification of type. Boston Terriers are CUTE!!! I don't ever want another bully breed. I'm a herding dog kind of girl <3


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