# New to the idea of Raw diet



## Sawyer498 (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay, I am fairly new to the idea of a raw diet. I have always fed my dogs dry kibble and commercial foods; however, the other day in fact I was questioning the commercial food diet and couldn't understand why we give the dogs dry food when in the wild they would have to eat raw meat a vegetation. 

I was pointed to this thread via another thread because my puppy seems to be pooping a lot (also eating his own stool on occasions). I am interested in this Raw meat diet but had some questions.

The first being, doesn't this diet get expensive? Having to always have and buy raw meat to keep in the fridge? I started reading some sites about raw diets and most people say they reduce the amount of times they feed their dogs because the dogs are now getting the appropriate nutrients and dont require the additional feedings. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I am a reef hobbyist and I try to simulate normal life and feedings when it comes to my marine fish. I have kept very hard to keep specimens in my years in the hobby and I find that by keeping things as natural as possible the animals do the best. In the ocean it's survival of the fittest and sometimes fish don't get to eat the meals that they love everyday. I mix up my fishes diet daily so that some days they get meat and other days they get algae or greens (depending on the specimens). 

What makes a dog any different? They are animals that require as natural a diet as possible. My question is, how often does a carnivore eat in the wild? I know they eat as much as possible during a feeding but how long does that last them? Carnivores don't graze on vegetation but they do get some from their prey. What is a sufficient amount of meat and or feedings? Does it vary depending on energy used? 

My 2 dogs, get walked daily Monday-Friday. If the weather is nice I'll play ball with them. On the weekends, they get a lot more exercise and activity since I don't work on the weekends and spend just about the entire day with them.

What do you experts suggest?


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## RavenSophi (Feb 23, 2009)

http://www.rawdogranch.com is a good starting point.


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## FourIsCompany (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm not an expert, but you will find some in the BARF and Raw Feeding Forum.











> Originally Posted By: Sawyer498
> The first being, doesn't this diet get expensive?


If I can keep my average cost per pound of meat to about $1, then it costs the same as our Kibble to feed our group of 4. (Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Venison) If you live in a decent sized town or city, you should have no problem keeping your average pretty low and finding suppliers of cheap meat (hunters, freezer-burned meat, farmers, etc.) 

A freezer is necessary (IMO) unless you want to prep every day. And I don't. The size depends on the number of dogs you have. I still feed my dogs twice a day, but some feed once per day. Some people even skip a day and feed a huge meal every other day, but that's not my preference. 



> Quote:
> What is a sufficient amount of meat and or feedings? Does it vary depending on energy used?


Most people feed their adult dogs 2-3% of their desired body weight per day, depending on their activity level. It has to be adjusted as you go along by observing the dogs weight. 

A couple of informative links: 

Raw Dog Ranch (Lauri is a member here) 

Myths About Raw Feeding


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

You can shop around for the best deals on meat. I wouldn't buy meat that's $3.50 a lb! I can usually keep it under a dollar, maybe $1.50. Some people will choose more exotic meats which are more expensive - rabbit, lamb, etc. A lot may depend on your location.

I have visited all my local grocery stores. Only 2 have pork shoulders, one for .79 a lb and the other for .99. I found a huge pack of 14 lbs of pork chops, ribs, and some other cut for .99 a lb.
Chicken quarters and whole chickens are usually .79-.99 per pound, they're always on sale somewhere. Organ meats are a little more expensive, but I just bought 2 bulk 40 lb. boxes of organs for $50 each so it's not bad. Otherwise I found pork liver for .99/lb and beef liver for 1.50/lb. One grocery store also has big slices of beef hearts for .99/lb. Whole turkeys I can find for .99 a lb sometimes.

I can also get large quantities of venison, some for free and my other 2 sources are about $1.08 and .80/lb. 

I just started one of my girls on raw and the others will follow once I stock up a bit more. I started her at 3.5% of her body weight (she is about 65-68 lbs), but she is extremely active and her metabolism is FAST. I might cut back a tiny bit, she is getting a tiny bit heavy, but these last couple weeks I haven't been able to be active with her due to an injury. So I'll see how she does when she gets back into training. She ate about 6-7 cups a day of grain-free kibble! My other GSD who is about 10 lbs smaller eats 3-4 cups a day of the kibble - she has a normal metabolism! So I'd start her at probably 2.5% and then adjust from there.

My food bill before the switch was about $100/month on kibble. Now it will be about $125 if the meat I get is a dollar a pound. If the meat averages .80/lb I will be under the $100 mark.

All these prices etc might be more than you were looking for LOL But hopefully it helps!

And you will find in your research that many people will suggest fasting your dog for 24 hours and also giving "gorge meals" to simulate how they'd eat in the wild.


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## Sawyer498 (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks to all for your responses it clears up a lot. 

Phgsd, Thanks for the breakdown on all the prices. I'm going to start taking a look at my local supermarkets to see what the prices are. I live in Northern NJ, I would say it's populated by me. 

So let's just say for example, I have a small whole turkey in my freezer right now been in the freezer for months (we got it for free and my family eats meat sparingly) Say I were to want to give that to my dogs. How would I cut this up to give it them? Cut the turkey straight down the middle and serve or cut them into smaller quarter pieces? 

I have a Pug who barely eats. Normally maybe once a day unless the food is amazing. This Pug HATES dry kibble. I try to spice it up sometimes for him to eat it but it just seems useless to me to keep it up I rather feed him something more wholesome. I know he wont require much. My other dog is a 3 month GSD, he eats. =) I give him about a cup and a half of kibble twice per day. On occasions I add half canned food or some other stuff to change it up. He for the most part eats it all no matter what I put down. His stool is constantly changing though. Sometimes it's moderately solid other times it's wet. 

I like to let them dogs eat as much as they require to be satisfied. I would prefer once my GSD is older to have both dogs eat a big meal once a day. Preferably, when I get home and am done eating so that I can digest while they eat and then be ready for a walk or something right after. I realize as a puppy he is probably best eating smaller meals spread out. 

I don't normally buy all that much meat so I just want to be clear on what I should be looking for. 

So far from what I gather any meat is decent but chicken is a good staple because of the price and also ground beef. The rest I should just look around to find the cheapest meat for variation and also add some organ meat (gotta look for a place to get this, it definitely isn't on my normal shopping list)

The most we normally get is ground beef and boneless chicken...lol I will have to keep my eye out now. I just want to be sure that I am feeding my dog adequately.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Quote:So let's just say for example, I have a small whole turkey in my freezer right now been in the freezer for months (we got it for free and my family eats meat sparingly) Say I were to want to give that to my dogs. How would I cut this up to give it them?


How would you cut it? I'm not sure.







I can get through whole chickens _very_ easily with cheap kitchen scissors. You might need poultry shears or something.



> Quote:Cut the turkey straight down the middle and serve or cut them into smaller quarter pieces?


Cut them straight down the middle!







It you want to cut them into smaller pieces that's fine, you may have to in order to get the proper weight of turkey to feed your dogs. I would weigh out the pieces to make sure that the dogs are getting a proper serving, but you don't have to cut them into tiny, little bite-sized pieces. With kibble, you measure by scoops. With raw, you measure by weight (that 2-3% thing.) Generally you feed 2-3% of the dogs weight in oz, since it's easier to get a more exact measurement of the amount of food you should be feeding in oz. I have an excel program (I believe you can also find something similar on Lauri's rawdogranch site) that will convert the dogs weight into oz for you and tell you exactly how much to feed of RMB, MM and OM in oz. 



> Quote: I would prefer once my GSD is older to have both dogs eat a big meal once a day. Preferably, when I get home and am done eating so that I can digest while they eat and then be ready for a walk or something right after. I realize as a puppy he is probably best eating smaller meals spread out.


Although I do not know how much proof there is to this, some believe that splitting your dogs meals up, especially for a GSD, and allowing them to rest for an hour or so after that meal can help reduce bloat. Many believe that raw in itself helps to reduce the chances, but that might be something you want to research before putting into motion. Obviously you will know what's best for your pup but, since GSDs are large dogs susceptible to bloat, you might want to take multiple meals into consideration. 



> Quote:I don't normally buy all that much meat so I just want to be clear on what I should be looking for.
> 
> So far from what I gather any meat is decent but chicken is a good staple because of the price and also ground beef. The rest I should just look around to find the cheapest meat for variation and also add some organ meat (gotta look for a place to get this, it definitely isn't on my normal shopping list)


Use staples for that diet that your dogs can handle as well as your wallet can handle. I know some dogs that don't like chicken, others (like my own) that cannot digest raw pork without horrible poops. You will want to add variation very slowly.

Start with just chicken RMB and MM for a week or so, until you get a week of good poops. Then add OM (preferably chicken) until you get a week or two of good poops. Now, you can add variety. Maybe keep the chicken RMB and OM and take out the chicken MM for beef MM (ground beef works well.) Wait for a week of good poops then maybe put turkey necks in for your RMB while keeping your ground beef and chicken liver. Continue like this until you add in all the variety you can!

Dogs can eat a lot! To get an idea of what kinds of meat people are feeding their dogs check out the Our Dogs Menus thread , it'll break down what people are feeding their dogs and let you know what you should be looking for.

I find my liver in the frozen meat sections (for beef) or the poultry section (for chicken.)


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

A new thread was just started about feeding your dog raw once a day. Check it out for some opinions on the topic.


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## Sawyer498 (Jul 6, 2009)

I just read thru it...so you feed your GSD kibble in the morning and raw in the evening? I thought about maybe doing something like that but I know once I feed my Pug raw he wont eat the Kibble in the morning. I can only imagine as my pup gets older he will shy away from the kibble in the morning (as yours does) because they know better food is served later on...which kind of lead me to the one meal a day thing but theres no harm in offering kibble in the morning. I just wanted to get away from it for a while because of the constant poops my pup is having. It's proving difficult to train him when he is exploding with poop randomly. haha

He's been checked by the vet and he is okay. The only thing I can think of is maybe the treating after he goes to the bathroom just catches up with him after a while and he explodes and can't hold it. Yesterday I just gave him praise with no treats. He had no accidents this morning.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I use the kibble in the morning also as a time to feed other things, like eggs, tripe, yogurt, etc. Mix a little of that in there and it's game on, although my pups have never had trouble eating...anything!


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: aubieI use the kibble in the morning also as a time to feed other things, like eggs, tripe, yogurt, etc. Mix a little of that in there and it's game on, although my pups have never had trouble eating...anything!


That's true. I currently pop Fish Oil gel capsules and put garlic in Jerzey's morning kibble. However, any kind of additives, canned fish is what I've used, will have her gobbling it right up. I haven't ordered tripe yet, but I bet that would work wonders and it's _great_ for your dog.

If you're having bad poop problems, though, trying 100% raw would probably help; raw is so digestible that there isn't much to poop out afterward. Although, if your schedule won't allow for two meals, even one raw meal is better than nothing. I keep Jerzey's kibble down until she eats it and, if she doesn't, well that's dinner then. She doesn't get raw unless that kibble is gone before dinner.

ETA: Do pugs bloat? If not, maybe your pug would be good with one raw meal a day.


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## FourIsCompany (Jan 29, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Sawyer498
> So let's just say for example, I have a small whole turkey in my freezer right now been in the freezer for months (we got it for free and my family eats meat sparingly) Say I were to want to give that to my dogs. How would I cut this up to give it them? Cut the turkey straight down the middle and serve or cut them into smaller quarter pieces?


I use a cleaver and a bamboo cutting board and cut the chicken up just as I would for humans. I'd do the same with turkey. The cleaver is good for getting through bones.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

What town are you in? I am also in Northern NJ, I could tell you a few places that have good prices. But we might be in opposite sides of the state - I am close to the PA border. There is a guy in Flemington who sells ground venison, 60 lbs is $65 I believe. Venison is great because it's not a grain-fed animal. Most of the meat you get at the supermarket is grain-fed so will be lacking in omega-3's and overall isn't as healthy as meat from a free-range animal (chicken, cow, etc) would be.

Serving size would depend on how much your dog will need to eat. I picked up some 3.5-4 lb chickens a few weeks back and basically cut them in half, added a little muscle and organ meat, and each half was a meal. The turkey was about 12 lbs or so, and got cut into more pieces. 
Whole chickens and turkeys do have more bone than you'd want to feed in the end - about 22% bone for a turkey, and chicken is 27%. You want about 10% bone total, so I add enough muscle meat (and the 10% organ meat) to bring it close to that number.

Here is a site you can use to determine how much bone whatever you're feeding contains:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/


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## Sawyer498 (Jul 6, 2009)

I live in Roselle Park...closer to the NY side. =)


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## StarryNite (Jun 2, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Sawyer498So let's just say for example, I have a small whole turkey in my freezer right now been in the freezer for months (we got it for free and my family eats meat sparingly) Say I were to want to give that to my dogs. How would I cut this up to give it them? Cut the turkey straight down the middle and serve or cut them into smaller quarter pieces?


One of the best investments I got is a good, sharp cleaver. Yeah, I feel like Freddie Kruger or something when I have the arm up and hacking but I don't know how I lived without that thing now, I use it for lettuce and hard bone now!

Oh, also helps with stress!


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