# resistance



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

A large animal vet friend showed me a “dutch x mal” litter advertisement here this afternoon. Upon closer inspection we found the sire was the mal, so it was in fact a “mal x dutch” litter. I see this simple error all the time, everywhere now. Get in the habit of thinking/writing/typing/speaking “sire x dam” if you aren’t already.
It was a repeat breeding and an older full sister is also available because, despite rigorous vax schedule, she failed her police physical due to heartworm. This sparked an offhand discussion between vet friend and I about selecting and breeding resistance. Only more difficult when parasites are _right on schedule_ themselves, busily breeding vax resistance there @ your site. We soon concurred that chronic hosts effectively incubate the problem, and individuals known for such genetic predisposition should not be kept in ANY proximity to your breeding facility.
I’m all about preventative nutritional therapy here. In other words once you’re sick it’s too late, and you just need to see a doctor ASAP. The goal of preventative nutritional therapy is to not get sick in the first place. I’ve had good luck w/ turmeric, but it’s unpalatable. Tablespoon of commercial beef lard does the trick. Commercial beef lard apparently smells so palatable in fact that you can mask nearly anything with one tablespoon, and a dog doesn’t even take time to evaluate the flavor profile. I’m leery of the preservative/stabilizer ingredients so I strictly limit one tablespoon commercial beef lard. Even sunshine burns if you get too much.
Some claim turmeric’s anti inflammatory properties help with arthritis as well, but I have no experience with that yet. I have however observed that neither mosquitoes nor tics nor gutworms seem to choose a host that consumes turmeric. Speaking of gutworms I’ve had good luck with digestive enzymes as well. Just pop a cap and sprinkle it directly onto a bowl of kibble.

Tics have been so prolific this summer I’ve taken to pressing a few raw garlic cloves right onto bread and butter or good spanish olive oil myself here on a nightly basis. Surprisingly palatable. Especially with a little salt and fresh pinched basil flowers. Delicious! The other night I watched a mosquito land on my arm and thought I’d let it have a taste, just to see. Didn’t even attempt to sample me with it’s little stinger. I never knew mosquitoes could fly so fast.

As 2nd full moon of summer approaches in the northern hemisphere, be on the lookout for parasites because there’s bound to be a great big hatch.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I put turmeric in coconut oil and with other ingredients. No problem


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

berno von der seeweise said:


> I have however observed that neither *mosquitoes* nor tics nor gutworms seem to choose a host that consumes turmeric.


That can't be right. What about malaria?


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks for the info about the moon being a bad one for parasites! I think you are onto something with regard to the genetics and parasites.

I have a lot of experience with German Shepherds and heartworms -- I'm in the worst-hit area for it in the entire United States. (Just as an aside: vaccines don't actually prevent heartworms. Heartworm prevention requires a monthly vet-prescribed pill or topical, or an injection every 6 months. This may just be a language-glitch, but for people who read this thread, I want to be careful with that.) 

PLEASE do not rely on lard or tumeric or coconut oil to prevent heartworms though! It's too dangerous a disease to play games with -- the treatment requires 3 months of crate rest (NO walks, play, or excitement), a series of arsenic-based injections that are so painful that the dog may be unable to stand up without help for days, with a possible side-effect of death (as discussed below), all at a cost of several thousand dollars.

I actually think that Shepherds are generally especially vulnerable to heartworms -- there's something in their genetics that seems to have cursed an awful lot of them with relatively fragile respiratory and immune systems relative to some other breeds (and fussy digestion too, which may be related to the immune function issues). Allergies are an auto-immune issue, and we probably have more threads on skin and food allergies than on any other topic!

Here are a few observations:

1. At one of the largest shelters in my area, serving the most populous Parish (county) in the state, about 25% of all dogs tested HW+. This shelter sees a lot of purebred-looking _everything_ (from wee little toy breeds to Great Danes), and GSDs are the second most common breed they see. The Shepherds were closer to 75% HW+ (and even the few that test negative will probably _turn _HW+ within 6 months because they're likely false-negatives). The shelter vet and I actually tracked it informally together for a year -- we had an argument one day where she said HW incidence was low in the shelter, and my response was "NO WAY" (because I knew what I was pulling and fostering was always HW+). So we compared notes and started watching it together and had a "wow" realization that it was a breed issue. It's not just about too many of the GSDs living outside where the mosquitoes are, as _all _large-breed dogs tend to suffer that fate in this area, but somehow the Shepherds turn up in higher rates with HW. Why? Nobody knows.

2. There is PROVEN resistance emerging in the United States to the most common forms of HW prevention -- Auburn University has confirmed that a heartworm strain has emerged that is resistant to ivermectin (the active ingredient in Heartgard, and many other preventatives in the same class). The Mississippi Delta and Valley are known to have this strain (but most of the U.S. will probably have it eventually, as HW+ dogs are transported to all corners of the country). You won't have to search long in the German Shepherd community in Louisiana to find someone who used Heartgard and ended up with a HW+ dog while never missing a dose -- for years the manufacturer claimed it was user error, and the owners (and vets) said "resistance." The research finally proved what the vets and owners have known for years down here. The only prevention product with NO documented resistance is Advantage Multi.

3. German Shepherds seem to often do TERRIBLY at handling the fast-kill heartworm treatment (immiticide). Many vets don't know this unless they've not only done a lot of HW treatment, but also treated a lot of GSDs in particular. The AAHA severe complication rate is supposed to only be 10%, but I've lost several foster dogs during treatment, despite following the AAHA protocol to the letter. They suddenly started coughing up huge amounts of blood, sometimes several weeks into the treatment, out of the blue. They had to be rushed to the emergency clinic to go into the intensive care oxygen crate -- and still didn't make it. My rescue's vet has treated hundreds, and possibly thousands, of dogs for HW disease using the AAHA protocol. She feels that the only dogs she ever loses during treatment are German Shepherds--she worries about them the whole time as they can suddenly take a down-turn out of nowhere and drop dead in hours. They seem to have a tendency to throw clots and bleed out in the lungs while the worms are embollizing and dying during treatment. Obviously, not all GSDs will have that happen during treatment, they really seem to be at higher risk.

4. German Shepherds are the bellwether for kennel cough and other URIs circulating in our animal shelter -- the Shepherds will start dropping to a severe form respiratory infection long before the breed-who-shall-not-be-name even gets the sniffles. When I was volunteering in shelters frequently, I used to constantly be begging the vets to start the Shepherds who had started coughing on medication because if they didn't, I knew that I'd come back in 3 days and find a dog that was lethargic, not eating or drinking, and cheek-puffing with labored breathing with pneumonia. I have nursed way too many of them back from life-threatening URIs, over the years. Meanwhile that other breed in the kennel next to them just shrugs off the same pathogen like it's nothing. One theory that I've heard is that it's because the Shepherds "sad themselves to death" in the shelters -- they're sad, so their immune system crashes. Their environmental sensitivity may be part of it, but I think there's more going on.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

If only it were that simple to eliminate malaria,west Nile virus,and heartworms by ingesting garlic and turmeric.
Can we all agree that garlic used topically keeps those pesky vampires away?👺


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dogma13 said:


> If only it were that simple to eliminate malaria,west Nile virus,and heartworms by ingesting garlic and turmeric.
> Can we all agree that garlic used topically keeps those pesky vampires away?👺


And would probably aid in social distancing!
Seriously though, farmers used to use acv in the water of livestock to help deter pesky, bite things. Many reported success, some said it was crap.
There is a genetic component to who gets bitten in humans, and I would love to see a blood type study on that.
My guess is that there is a genetic component in dogs as well. I live in Ontario, Northern Ontario at that and if there is anything that stops black flies for the love of God tell us! 
I said for years that over use of commercial sprays to deter pests was going to breed resistance. I was right. Same with vaccines.
Look at the flu. Every year we vaccinate and every year the virus mutates into some more damaging strain.
To touch on what @Magwart said, these are some of the reasons I oppose out of area adoptions. We are introducing resistant strains into new areas. 
As to the breeding resistance, back in the 70s, I think, some breeders tried to breed out parvovirus by exposure. What they discovered, aside from lots of dead pups, was that immunity wasn't that easy. Bitches exposed did produce immune pups. But those immune pups did not produce immune offspring. Similarly female pups that survived exposure produced immune pups, but those pups again failed to produce immune pups. Maternal immunity was passed but failed to pass to future generations.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

One of the Trainers at the club I have been training at had a dog come down with heartworms.
Not sure what treatment method they used, but he is coming back, slowly. That is, not coming back to Schutzhund training yet, but getting his sea-legs back under him slowly. 

I had a Golden from age 14, who then lived with my parents after I moved out. She got heartworms at maybe 5-6 years old, took what was then an "iffy" cure (this was maybe early to mid-1980s), survived and lived to be 14+. She was a tough dog, in different ways from GSDs, but tough all the same. 

In SW Ohio, we have had bad mosquitoes this season, a plague of "no see-um" biting gnats and other parasites that bite humans have also been bad. Chiggers, perhaps. . . 
I put on deet lotion and still get bit. So I do worry about my pups.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I regret not citing the dangers deet and garlic pose to dogs in the OP. I took it for granted as “common knowledge” but re-reading nearly confused myself. The garlic I mentioned is for human consumption only. Some say they feed a little but I’m certainly not suggesting that, and for anyone who doesn’t already know, deet is a definite no go for dogs. Mosquito season is mighty short hereabouts and I realize how badly I’ve taken that for granted as well. My heart goes out to all down there in those little latitudes!
Coconut oil is a really good idea. Never even thought of that, but I do keep the big jar on hand at all times for my five star dark chocolate cake recipe. The beef lard is so gross. Dogs love it, but I’m always extra careful not to get any on me. Yuk!
I’m friends with a couple old hunters and therefore by proxy distantly acquainted with a bunch of houndsmen. Talk about immune systems! As far as I know those guys make no attempt to prevent or treat anything? I’ll ask around about that, because now I’m really curious.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I am not at all surprised that heart worms have developed resistance. I think vets have been pushing the heart worm meds as a money-maker in areas where it's not really needed. The incidence of heartworm positive dogs in my part of Ontario is really, really low, and is likely only from dogs that go south for the winter, yet vets STILL push heart worm testing and meds as if you're going to kill your dog if they don't get treated. 

What many people aren't aware of is that the life cycle of the heart worm is extremely temperature-dependent:

“The lifecycle of the heartworm nematode involves six stages, and a dog can get infected with heartworm _only_ if two of these stages are fully completed inside the body of the mosquito, and those stages can _only_ be completed inside the body of the mosquito if the temperature stays above 57 degrees for at least 45 days straight, both day _and _night. If the temperature drops below 57 degrees even _once_ during that 45-day period, the lifecycle of the nematode is broken, and heartworm cannot b transmitted to your dog. What this means, in simple terms, is that a year-round program of Heartgard or some other “preventative” medicine is NOT needed in most of the country” -Dr. David Knight and James Lok. 






Heartworm Myths Debunked!







www.4pawspetsitting.com




.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

@Sunsilver Weirdly, Agis is from Northern Manitoba, and the dog pull they did (80-odd dogs) had several who were heartworm positive. Our vets were like 'Really?' but we did the test this spring to be sure he was negative.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I refused heartworm meds for most of the time I lived in Alberta because there was no evidence that heartworm existed in the province.
With regards to northern Manitoba, there are a couple of shady rescue groups in that area that have been importing dogs from Mexico and Texas for years! It is highly likely that infected dogs have been introduced. 
Saskatchewan has a similar issue. Heartworm is fairly common there and it shouldn't be.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I live in the NE US. Vets here are more concerned with ticks. My vet said that every dog that they treated for heartworms had traveled down south and back with their owners, no exceptions.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

As for how heartworm positive dogs are getting into Canada, I remember reading an article about someone in the States that would fill up a truck every couple of weeks with 'rescue' dogs, and drive north of the border to drop them off for adoption. The dogs were loose in the back of the truck, the trip took 2 days, and they were not fed or watered or let out to relieve themselves during that time. This person was making some serious money doing this.

If someone remembers the details of how this all was exposed (might have been the truck was in an accident?), please provide a link. It's well worth a read! 

Edit: I think I found it with a bit of digging. I was wrong about the dogs being loose in the back of the truck: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ej-rescue-1.5630648

Well worth a read - more oversight is needed to prevent a 'rescue' like this from operating! The risk of these dogs bringing diseases into the country is also extremely high.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes, @Sunsilver I think I remember reading about that. We got Agis from the Humane Society but he was originally brought to Ontario but Manitoba Underdogs Rescue, which I'm pretty sure is reputable...I mean, we didn't know he came from Manitoba, but I did some digging. @Sabis mom I sure hope he wasn't imported from the US, but there are articles about his rescue on CBC (the big movement of dogs from Northern Manitoba to North Bay (and he then went to Toronto) (edit: here's the article https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/northbay-dryden-dog-transport-1.5351686) so fingers crossed. 

...when Luc was old, that flu that came from Asia but is also endemic in parts of the US had some cases in Canada associated with importing dogs, and it pissed me off. Luc was too fragile for a vaccine, and I had to avoid other dogs like the plague. Which when you live in a highly dog-populated area of the city, is hard. It's hard to find Canadian dogs in rescues now, at least around here.


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