# Cow Hocks - Do They Affect Working Ability?



## Yoshi

I was wondering if cow hocks affect working ability in German Shepherds as I believe that they are an undesirable trait? And yet I've been told that cow hocks are quite common in German Shepherds. Are they genetic and if so are they dominant or recessive? Cow hocks are when the back legs point outward and the back knees point inward right?


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## lhczth

No, they do not affect working ability. Yes, there is a genetic component, but probably polygenic and not just a simple recessive/dominant trait. Yes, it is a fault. 

Toes point out, hocks point towards one another.


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## carmspack

are you concerned about your dog?


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## Yoshi

Thanks Ihczth for the explanation. Is it common in German Shepherds? 

Carmen, yes he does seem to have cow hocks. I will try and get some pictures if you like?


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## llombardo

We had a male GSD in agility class and it did affect him in that venue/sport. He was a little over a year and he belonged to one of the trainers at the GSD club. This dogs temperament was wonderful, my favorite GSD at the club. He was more awkward and I remember the agility teacher telling her he would get used to it and it didn't matter because he loved agility and thought he was great at it, they did not take that away from him.That dog had a few obedience titles under his belt by the time he was a year, his amazing obedience and focus grabbed my attention. It did not affect his ability for obedience. Sadly he had to put down at a year and a half because his kidneys failed. I will never forget him and I was in shock when it happened. I will never forget that dog. Issues with his feet or not, he was by far the most obedient and hardest working young GSD I have met to date.


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## d4mmo

My pup stands like his cow hocked especially when pulling. However when he walks and gaits his legs are quite straight.


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## LoveEcho

How old is the dog?

I don't know the level of truth behind this, so I'm hoping Lisa or Carmen can clarify... I'd heard that while on a base level it is genetic, it can be common in pups and go away (or improve) as the pup ages and develops better muscle tone? 

My female was fairly cow-hocked when she was a younger puppy. Now at ten months you can barely see it unless you really look for it, after a season of swimming and conditioning in the water. Certainly doesn't affect her mobility, agility, or stamina.


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## carmspack

waiting for picture .

cow hock is a position taken to carry the weight , creating a tripod effect. Long bodied dogs with excessive rear, (long stifles) and soft ligaments will stand this way. 

This is a pup , probably not even 12 weeks of age.
The muscles need to develop as does the ligament and cartilage.

Feed the dog a good diet which promotes lean muscle , and ligaments with integrity . 

Allow the dog free-choice movement . 
A new owner is likely to be over critical , and over zealous.
When someone says provide exercise they over do it and go on long marches , exhausting the pup , or doing something high impact , or abrupt changes in direction, stop and go. Just let the dog follow you around outside , uneven terrain being good . 

This is not an indication of future hip problems . 
The pup is developing muscles.


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## lalachka

carmspack said:


> cow hock is a position taken to carry the weight , creating a tripod effect. Long bodied dogs with excessive rear, (long stifles) and soft ligaments will stand this way
> ...
> This is not an indication of future hip problems .
> .


Thank you for this. My dog stands this way, I've been asking people for 2 years ans couldn't get an answer though I had an idea that he stands this way because he's supporting his weight and it's something in his structure that makes him stand This way

Now you explained what it is and he most def has a very long back. I don't know what stiffles are and not sure how to tell whether he has soft ligaments 

And especially thank you for the last part. For some reason I thought they're connected. I have a cat with a broken back that healed that stands this way. She has a hump in her back and he has a slight hump too so I thought maybe it's his back that will have problems and that makes him stand this way.


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## Debanneball

llombardo said:


> ... Sadly he had to put down at a year and a half because his kidneys failed. I will never forget him and I was in shock when it happened. I will never forget that dog. Issues with his feet or not, he was by far the most obedient and hardest working young GSD I have met to date.


OMG, crying again, so sad, so young! As my niece (39 downs syndrome) would say 'Father God wanted the dog to sit beside him'..


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## d4mmo

I posted this image in the wrong thread ?
Tell me if you think he is cow hocked or just loose hocks


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## carmspack

side shot please.
need to see the conformation and muscle tone


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## d4mmo

In a stack or just normal standing?


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## carmspack

normal please .
a conformation handler will know how to hand stack to hide flaws. If you allow the dog to stand normal then the dog will select his comfort position .


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## Yoshi

Sorry for the wait! Here's some photos of . . . Yoshi! 

Well that's a relief that cow hocks don't affect his health! I personally don't like the look of it. Yeah, he's almost 12 weeks old, I do hope he grows out of it. He get's easy exercise, just follows me around when I do stuff, haven't begun any routine walks yet. In regards to feeding he gets chicken necks, roo meat, beef/lamb heart, and super coat puppy biscuits, sometimes eggs, and he munches on grass and goose poo occasionally. 

His back knees almost brush each other when he walks and his front legs point outwards as he takes steps.


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## carmspack

you can send me the pup.

this is a good looking pup . I don't see cow hocks . 
stop being so critical and enjoy the dog , Or send him to me.

how do you stand ? Do you bend a knee, have one foot forward , shift weight , one hip a little dropped ? Or do you stand like a soldier on parade inspection, ram rod straight back, shoulders back and feet straight and forward . 

this looks like a very normal dog and he moves true. A dog that is cow hocked would knit and purl .

here is everything you need about the hind quarters 
New Page 1


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## Yoshi

Nooooo, sorry Carmen, he's mine. 

That's a relief! Not cow hocked, huh? I haven't seen puppies walking like this before where their knees are almost touching. My White Swiss never walked nor stood like that, neither other dogs I've seen the family have. Is it just a German Shepherd trait? 










My White Swiss and the sheep dogs I've know usually stood like the first picture. My mum's staffy stands like the second. My mum's Chihuahua stands like the third. Yoshi stands like the forth, except the knees touch. 

I get your point in regards to standing. I usually fidget or tap my feet anyway. Interesting how there's so many different ways to stand or walk in dogs.

Thanks for the link!


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## carmspack

Yoshi is a pup -- and no , your first picture does not show this.

I gave you some very good illustrations from a person (friend) who is a GSD anatomical specialist , handler , author - even in SV magazines -- 

the illustrations you provide aren't GSD and wouldn't be correct

the GSD allows for close or single tracking , the foot needs to come in to the centre of the body .


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## cliffson1

Many of the herding dogs( Gsd) in the old country were cow hocked....didn't bother the shepherds, but is frowned on by conformation world. If he's not being shown, I wouldn't stress over it.


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## Liesje

I am OK with some cow hock but what I don't like are loose ligaments, a dog that isn't "dry". I think that, coupled with cow hock, is ugly and non-functional and makes the dog's rear movement look sloppy.

I have a friend who is big into a livestock guarding breed and according to her, those that actually work their dogs and have working farms/livestock herds actually prefer some cow hock.


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## Yoshi

I was really just wondering if the cow hocks were going to hamper his ability to move. But if he doesn't have them, then great! If he does have them, no worries then. 

We have sheep dogs and they have a pretty straight stance, no cow hocks. They are mostly Kelpie. Not pedigreed registered. They come from farm lines, bred for health and working ability. They have strict culling practices unfortunately as it were when you rely on the dogs to get the job done. 

But yeah, thanks for the replies everyone.


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## OregonMo

lhczth said:


> No, they do not affect working ability. Yes, there is a genetic component, but probably polygenic and not just a simple recessive/dominant trait. Yes, it is a fault.
> 
> Toes point out, hocks point towards one another.


Lisa are you able to tell if this pronation exhibits temporarily in GSD pups


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## IllinoisNative

This an old 2014 post.


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## OregonMo

Seems timeless to a person researching this issue. I read here observations that this changes as the pup develops. Then I read articles from breeders saying that it is genetic, it does not change if the pup exhibits this and it is not necessarily a life changing event


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## Fodder

OregonMo said:


> Seems timeless to a person researching this issue. I read here observations that this changes as the pup develops. Then I read articles from breeders saying that it is genetic, it does not change if the pup exhibits this and it is not necessarily a life changing event


it’s genetic. once cow hocked, always cow hocked. however, the degree can change / improve as a dog gets older.


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## OregonMo

Fodder said:


> it’s genetic. once cow hocked, always cow hocked. however, the degree can change / improve as a dog gets older.


Thx. I would be grateful if there was an article or a study you could cite Thank you so much


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