# Annamaet dog food "better" than Orijen?



## kam214

My local feed store sells both Orijen and Annamaet dog food. I have always bought Orijen as my pooch likes it, she has a gorgeous coat, and it makes her poops easy to pick up...the farts are a whole other story

Anyhow, the manager was trying to convince me to switch to Annamaet because it is much "better" than Orijen. Yet he could not articulate why. I still bought the Orijen and they gave me a sample of the Annamaet "Manitok" grain free food.

I opened the sample today and it stunk to high heaven like fish  Note I also do not use any of the Orijen fish formulas either though. The Manitok is supposed to be the "same" as Regional Red.

I noticed the second or third ingredient is potato. 

Well, my dog spit out the kibbles I offered her just to see if she liked it out of morbid curiosity. She just spit it out and stared at it on the floor, then back up at me like, "Really mom???"

Any users of this food and positive/negative effects? I believe more of how/what people feed on here vs. what a store that sells the brand has to say...


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## Lucy Dog

Is the manager of the store sable123?

Seriously... it looks like a decent food from the ingredient list. The "better" food is the one that works best for your specific dog. If your dog's doing well on Orijen, I see no reason to switch.


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## kam214

Lucy Dog said:


> Is the manager of the store sable123?


LOL...I do not think so???


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## jaggirl47

Lucy Dog said:


> Is the manager of the store sable123?


 
I'm sorry but this made me laugh!


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## brembo

Well, the first ingredient is lamb MEAL, which is a tad suspicious. Meal is defined by AAFCO as _Lamb Meal - the rendered product from lamb tissues, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices._

So the main ingredient is rendered, which has it's pros and cons. 

Pro-Likely bacteria free, low chance of rancid.
Cons- Changes the fats, rendering can move carbon atoms about and do oddball things. How and why is wildly varying. Could be good, could be bad. I DO know that it's not as good as plain raw meat, which is what it looks like Orijen uses. 

Quick conclusion is that Orijen is a better kibble overall. I looked at the Annamaet foods and they all use meals as the main ingredient.

That being said, if you are ponying up the dough for Orijen, you might be interested in a more raw approach. I feed 70-80% raw with kibble as a filler/lazy days. With my GSD I just toss raw butchered meat or pieces of chicken in his bowl(bones and all). His extra special treat is a whole game hen. I leave the room as the sounds are kinda graphic. My Mal is still unsure of raw pork and chicken (she'll tear beef up tho). I have found that it's actually cheaper to feed human grade food purchased on sale than premium kibble (I use Taste of the Wild and Solid Gold mainly). When I'm at the store I browse for meats on sale and if I find something that's a good deal I will buy pounds upon pounds of it and heave it in the freezer.

I really enjoy prepping my dogs food. First off I like knives and any excuse to wield a sharp implement is good for me. I can also snipe some of the meat for MY dinner as well. As I prep my food I often feed little bits to the dogs as they wander around. Like I said, my Mal is unsure of some raw still, so I cook hers a bit (sautee in coconut oil, MCTs for the win) and leave Banjo's cuts raw. 

You mentioned gassy dogs. I do not have that issue at all. Many times gas is a by-product of items that are difficult to digest. Since my mutts get fresh non-processed foods (80% at least) their GI tracts cope very well and flatus is minimized. Yeah, sometimes they will float the occasional air biscuit but it's rare. If I do notice that one is exceptionally gassy I know something is wrong (that gets them a rice and lamb diet for a few days).


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## MaggieRoseLee

I'll say I've only heard good things about Annamaet. Still a smaller company so they have better quality control than the larger companies.


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## BlackGSD

The second ingredient is potato, the third ingredient is CATFISH MEAL. Probably why it smells fishy. Besides the fact that the first listed fat is a FISH oil!

I do find it funny that they call that their "red meat" formula yet half of the meat in that formula is FISH.

Is it "better" than Orijen? No. But I wouldn't call it junk. 

As was already said, if you are happy with how your dog is doing on the Orijen, I wouldn't bother changing.


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## MustLoveGSDs

brembo said:


> Well, the first ingredient is lamb MEAL, which is a tad suspicious. Meal is defined by AAFCO as _Lamb Meal - the rendered product from lamb tissues, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices._
> 
> So the main ingredient is rendered, which has it's pros and cons.
> 
> Pro-Likely bacteria free, low chance of rancid.
> Cons- Changes the fats, rendering can move carbon atoms about and do oddball things. How and why is wildly varying. Could be good, could be bad. I DO know that it's not as good as plain raw meat, which is what it looks like Orijen uses.
> 
> Quick conclusion is that Orijen is a better kibble overall. I looked at the Annamaet foods and they all use meals as the main ingredient.
> 
> That being said, if you are ponying up the dough for Orijen, you might be interested in a more raw approach. I feed 70-80% raw with kibble as a filler/lazy days. With my GSD I just toss raw butchered meat or pieces of chicken in his bowl(bones and all). His extra special treat is a whole game hen. I leave the room as the sounds are kinda graphic. My Mal is still unsure of raw pork and chicken (she'll tear beef up tho). I have found that it's actually cheaper to feed human grade food purchased on sale than premium kibble (I use Taste of the Wild and Solid Gold mainly). When I'm at the store I browse for meats on sale and if I find something that's a good deal I will buy pounds upon pounds of it and heave it in the freezer.
> 
> I really enjoy prepping my dogs food. First off I like knives and any excuse to wield a sharp implement is good for me. I can also snipe some of the meat for MY dinner as well. As I prep my food I often feed little bits to the dogs as they wander around. Like I said, my Mal is unsure of some raw still, so I cook hers a bit (sautee in coconut oil, MCTs for the win) and leave Banjo's cuts raw.
> 
> You mentioned gassy dogs. I do not have that issue at all. Many times gas is a by-product of items that are difficult to digest. Since my mutts get fresh non-processed foods (80% at least) their GI tracts cope very well and flatus is minimized. Yeah, sometimes they will float the occasional air biscuit but it's rare. If I do notice that one is exceptionally gassy I know something is wrong (that gets them a rice and lamb diet for a few days).



I thought meal form was actually good because it is meat in its dehydrated form. I feed my dogs Acana Wild Prarie and the first ingredient is chicken meal.

This is what dogfoodproject.com says:
The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products

"Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product. This means that in the worst case you are left with only 4 ounces of actual meat content per pound of fresh meat included in a dry kibble, many of which contain less than one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain to begin with. Preferably a food contains quality meat meal as well as some fresh meat."


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## kam214

I already told the manager I was happy with Orijen overall...they were VERY pushy about the Annamaet and how much better it was. I told them that was all good and well, but we liked Orijen.

I was asking here out of curiosity since people here know more than your average feed store personel


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## tomtommy

I wasn't aware of this until recently but apparantly Champion has sold out in some way. Wasn't the whole pitch, a family owned business? Many companies get criticized for this. Should Champion? Was this ever announced on the website?

Bedford Capital: Investment Situations


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## BlackGSD

kam214 said:


> I already told the manager I was happy with Orijen overall...they were VERY pushy about the Annamaet and how much better it was. I told them that was all good and well, but we liked Orijen.
> 
> I was asking here out of curiosity since people here know more than your average feed store personel


If they were pushy like that to me, I would have had to tell them that is they didn't stop trying to jam something down my throat that I don't want, I would be forced to spend money on what I do want SOMEWHERE ELSE.


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## brembo

MustLoveGSDs said:


> I thought meal form was actually good because it is meat in its dehydrated form. I feed my dogs Acana Wild Prarie and the first ingredient is chicken meal.
> 
> This is what dogfoodproject.com says:
> The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products
> 
> "Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product. This means that in the worst case you are left with only 4 ounces of actual meat content per pound of fresh meat included in a dry kibble, many of which contain less than one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain to begin with. Preferably a food contains quality meat meal as well as some fresh meat."


In analysis that seems like a good thing, keep in mind however that it's not the whole picture. Ease of digestion should also be taken into consideration. A dog's digestive tract is optimized for non-processed foods. It may very well be true that highly concentrated protein in the form of meal is excellent for dogs, might also be be that it's overkill and much of the content is passing through with no benefit. 

Boils down to what works for the particular animal. Banjo had digestive issues as a pup, so I developed a regimen that works for him. My Mal has a seemingly cast iron stomach, but I feed her pretty much the same things. If it works, stick to it and tweak things as you go to add some variety and excitement for the dog. My dogs have brilliant fur, no doggie odor and are pretty well gas-free. I go too heavy on chicken Banjo starts itching(he loves it dearly tho), so I give him some but sparingly. Peppy eats anything and everything and it sits just fine with her, tho I suspect fish does something to her mucus levels, she hacks some when I supplement with salmon based kibble. Your dog is likely very different, it might pay to fiddle some and see what happens. By testing the waters I know that I can buy beef and pork and have no issues what-so-ever with either dog. Chicken and fish are a temporary option in a pinch, but not good for long term use. Handy to know when you have to get food in a hurry.


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## Lucy Dog

tomtommy said:


> I wasn't aware of this until recently but apparantly Champion has sold out in some way. Wasn't the whole pitch, a family owned business? Many companies get criticized for this. Should Champion? Was this ever announced on the website?
> 
> Bedford Capital: Investment Situations


Hey Sable... I just wanted to be the first to say welcome back to the board and that we've all missed you. 

Any idea when we can get a tomtommy value pick of the week? We've all been deprived for months.


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## jaggirl47

Lucy Dog said:


> Hey Sable... I just wanted to be the first to say welcome back to the board and that we've all missed you.
> 
> Any idea when we can get a tomtommy value pick of the week? We've all been deprived for months.


 
Is that really sable? I am still waiting on tomtommy to give proof when they said Orijen and Acana uses GMO apples.


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## Lucy Dog

jaggirl47 said:


> Is that really sable? I am still waiting on tomtommy to give proof when they said Orijen and Acana uses GMO apples.


He did this like a month or two ago with another username. Came on here with the same agenda, different name. Started an argument in a similar type thread, everyone recognized him, and he got banned again. 

If this isn't sable... these two have the same "Orijen's the devil" arguments. Same feed these brands attitude. Same writing and posting style. Same everything.

You want to know if this is Sable for sure? Ok...

Hey tomtommy... How do you feel about those dog food advisor website? You know... dogfoodadvisor.com and dogfoodanalysis.com? Do you think people should listen to the advice given on these websites?


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## MustLoveGSDs

brembo said:


> In analysis that seems like a good thing, keep in mind however that it's not the whole picture. Ease of digestion should also be taken into consideration. A dog's digestive tract is optimized for non-processed foods. It may very well be true that highly concentrated protein in the form of meal is excellent for dogs, might also be be that it's overkill and much of the content is passing through with no benefit.
> 
> Boils down to what works for the particular animal. Banjo had digestive issues as a pup, so I developed a regimen that works for him. My Mal has a seemingly cast iron stomach, but I feed her pretty much the same things. If it works, stick to it and tweak things as you go to add some variety and excitement for the dog. My dogs have brilliant fur, no doggie odor and are pretty well gas-free. I go too heavy on chicken Banjo starts itching(he loves it dearly tho), so I give him some but sparingly. Peppy eats anything and everything and it sits just fine with her, tho I suspect fish does something to her mucus levels, she hacks some when I supplement with salmon based kibble. Your dog is likely very different, it might pay to fiddle some and see what happens. By testing the waters I know that I can buy beef and pork and have no issues what-so-ever with either dog. Chicken and fish are a temporary option in a pinch, but not good for long term use. Handy to know when you have to get food in a hurry.



I've had my dogs on a myriad of foods and Acana is what I am most happy with. My Dobe has been in one conformation show and the handler didn't have to do anything to his coat because it was so gleaming  Wild Prarie also has deboned chicken and walleye. I am very happy with the quality of Acana. I can also rotate through the different protein varieties and it causes no upsets with my dogs. They also love raw turkey necks and raw beef gullets.


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## tomtommy

Lucy Dog said:


> He did this like a month or two ago with another username. Came on here with the same agenda, different name. Started an argument in a similar type thread, everyone recognized him, and he got banned again.
> 
> If this isn't sable... these two have the same "Orijen's the devil" arguments. Same feed these brands attitude. Same writing and posting style. Same everything.
> 
> You want to know if this is Sable for sure? Ok...
> 
> Hey tomtommy... How do you feel about those dog food advisor website? You know... dogfoodadvisor.com and dogfoodanalysis.com? Do you think people should listen to the advice given on these websites?


Are you on drugs? Or in a mental institution? What are you talking about?

You can feed whatever you like, but keep in mind one thing; the internet is stuffed with dogs getting sick on Orijen. 

It is not a good food at all. 

I thought the thread on Annamaet was interesting because Annamaet has three things Orijen doesn't have: 1) A flawless reputation, 2) An internationally known owner/nutritionist and 3) A long history in canine competition. 

All Orijen has is dog forum robots.

I would ask the people that live in the area what Orijen's reputation actually is.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

tomtommy said:


> Are you on drugs? Or in a mental institution? What are you talking about?
> 
> You can feed whatever you like, but keep in mind one thing; the internet is stuffed with dogs getting sick on Orijen.
> 
> It is not a good food at all.
> 
> I thought the thread on Annamaet was interesting because Annamaet has three things Orijen doesn't have: 1) A flawless reputation, 2) An internationally known owner/nutritionist and 3) A long history in canine competition.
> 
> All Orijen has is dog forum robots.
> 
> I would ask the people that live in the area what Orijen's reputation actually is.


Hi Sable!


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## Lucy Dog

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> Hi Sable!


lol 

Sable... this is what, your third time around? You've gotten your point across... we get it, but why do you continue to come back with the same arguments over and over and over? What exactly are you trying to accomplish this time around?

Relax a little and maybe you won't get banned again this time. I actually like you around here when you're not going off on one of your food hissy fits. Sometimes you actually have really good info.


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## kam214

LMAO...I had no idea a harmless question would stir up a storm :shocked:


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## MustLoveGSDs

Dog food is serious business!


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## tomtommy

1) Orijen Pollutes
2) Orijen Lies - Look Up Griffin Industries
3) Orijen Sold Out in 2011 - Bedford Capital "Management Buy-Out"

How many recalls? How many dead cats?


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## Emoore

Lucy Dog said:


> Hey tomtommy... How do you feel about those dog food advisor website? You know... dogfoodadvisor.com and dogfoodanalysis.com? Do you think people should listen to the advice given on these websites?


It's often outdated, often misleading, and always skewed in favor of grain-free over grain-inclusive, regardless of quality or actual meat content.


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## tomtommy

In the public interest - Orijen irradiation page 2

Interesting read.....I am wondering why all that "canadian fresh protein" comes from Mississippi.


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## Lucy Dog

tomtommy said:


> 1) Orijen Pollutes
> 2) Orijen Lies - Look Up Griffin Industries
> 3) Orijen Sold Out in 2011 - Bedford Capital "Management Buy-Out"
> 
> How many recalls? How many dead cats?


How about you provide us with the facts sable, oh I mean "tommy", instead of just telling us to look up your vague claims. You went out of your way to post this, so go a little more out of your way to provide some links.



Emoore said:


> It's often outdated, often misleading, and always skewed in favor of grain-free over grain-inclusive, regardless of quality or actual meat content.


Agreed. I don't listen to those websites either. I just know there's a certain member who really hates them... That's why I brought it up.


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## tomtommy

Lucy Dog said:


> How about you provide us with the facts sable, oh I mean "tommy", instead of just telling us to look up your vague claims. You went out of your way to post this, so go a little more out of your way to provide some links.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. I don't listen to those websites either. I just know there's a certain member who really hates them... That's why I brought it up.


You must be living in a bubble.

Bedford Capital: Investment Situations

The CEO of Champion is now Frank Burdzy, family is out, and his whole career was spent in the chemical business. When you read the above link keep in mind there are business buzzwords. They are just candy-coated words for cashing out. He was installed likely by the new owners. Doesn't seem like he has much experience with animal nutrition. Selling propane and fertilizer, yes. Pretty sad.

Morinville News News Archive Deputy Mayor unimpressed with Champion Petfoods presentation

This is common knowledge. The plant is so outdated that no amount of money can really fix it. Being run out of town.

The rest you know, don't pretend. Griffin Industries is a big supplier of protein and it has a dubious business in all forms of industrial rendering. Doesn't seem right given the marketing of these foods.

There is a women in Australia called The Cats Mother that spent months unravelling the whole radiation scandal. The role of Griffin and all the inconsistencies.

It is a good read. 

So, I have never met this pet store owner but I have to agree. There are much better choices.


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## Lucy Dog

A few remarks and questions, Sable...

What's with the Bedford Capital links? Champion has someone who manage some of their assets, so what? What's your issue with that? What else should they be doing with their profits that you'd approve of? You're supposedly a fund manager too, so what's the problem? How is having someone manage your money "selling out"? Even charities have money managers... are they sell outs too?

I see Burdzy has been CEO since 2010 (which really isn't considered new news since it's 2012!), but that's all the information I can find about him. Where are you getting all this information from about him? 

Regarding your newspaper link... all that story says is the people in that town don't like the smell of the factory. Well, so what? Who would like the smell of a rendering or any kind of factory right next to their homes? You're saying they make an inferior product because the people in their town don't like the smell that comes out of making their dog food? Was that your point of posting that article? 

And regarding the outsourcing of meat meal vs the fresh local ingredient argument that you've been going on and on about for years. Go on the orijen website and read their ingredient list. They put asterisks by the fresh local stuff and they don't asterisk the outsourced meats. It's pretty simple for anyone who knows how to read. Asterisk = fresh and never frozen, no asterisk = anything else. Pretty simple and printed in black and white.

And you ask if I'm living in a bubble, but you've now come back for the third time after being booted from here twice to argue the same stuff you've been ranting in circles about for years?? Move on already. Actually, keep going with your little vendetta against the dog food world, it's definitely keeping me entertained.


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## Clyde

tomtommy said:


> Are you on drugs? Or in a mental institution? What are you talking about?
> 
> You can feed whatever you like, but keep in mind one thing; the internet is stuffed with dogs getting sick on Orijen.
> 
> It is not a good food at all.
> 
> I thought the thread on Annamaet was interesting because Annamaet has three things Orijen doesn't have: 1) A flawless reputation, 2) An internationally known owner/nutritionist and 3) A long history in canine competition.
> 
> All Orijen has is dog forum robots.
> 
> I would ask the people that live in the area what Orijen's reputation actually is.


I live in the area and I have never heard anything bad about Orijen different than the typical food complaints every food on the market gets. I also work at a pet store and Orijen and Acana are by far the top selling foods. With so many repeat customers they must be doing something right.


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## Emoore

I think that there are crappy dog foods, middle-of-the-road dog foods, and good dog foods, but I think it's continuum and you can't say definitively that Good dog food "A" is _better_ than Good Dog food B. A food that looks worse on the label might be better for your dog, and a food that looks better on the label might be terrible for your dog. Just feed a good dog food that works for your dog.


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## Anthony8858

Emoore said:


> I think that there are crappy dog foods, middle-of-the-road dog foods, and good dog foods, but I think it's continuum and you can't say definitively that Good dog food "A" is _better_ than Good Dog food B. A food that looks worse on the label might be better for your dog, and a food that looks better on the label might be terrible for your dog. Just feed a good dog food that works for your dog.


Ahh... Sounds like a voice of reason.


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## GSDAlphaMom

Yep that is most definitely sable under the new alias tomtommy.


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## Emoore

Or maybe 3ToesTony?


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## BlackGSD

If people wouldn't feed Trolls, they would GO AWAY.


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## kr16

all the admins needs to do is check IP address to verify. I doubt that person is good enough to do a fake proxy and create a new Ip address


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## Lucy Dog

Anthony8858 said:


> Ahh... Sounds like a voice of reason.


But it's so much fun to bicker with this guy. It's like watching a funny episode of seinfeld on tv... I've seen it before, I know most of the lines, but it's still funny and makes me laugh every time.



Emoore said:


> Or maybe 3ToesTony?


3ToesTony?... the anti-sable. No way. That guy/girl would never say anything bad about Orijen. No way this is 3toestony. 

This is 100% sable.


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## GSDAlphaMom

kr16 said:


> all the admins needs to do is check IP address to verify. I doubt that person is good enough to do a fake proxy and create a new Ip address


All you have to do is use a different computer and it will be a different IP address. Most homes have more than one computer in them.
There's no denying who it is from his content, writing style, and dogfood bias.


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## kr16

GSDAlphaMom said:


> All you have to do is use a different computer and it will be a different IP address. Most homes have more than one computer in them.
> There's no denying who it is from his content, writing style, and dogfood bias.


 
Interesting I run a forum and I can post from any of my 6 computers and they all have the same IP address. 

I always though IP comes from your router not your computer. Your router will recognize each of your computers with a similar address 192.168.1. and whatever computer. I have a static IP so its always the same. If you use AOL to post they have a different IP address.

Even if she has a dynamic IP the range will be very similar when tracking.


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## RamRod

Funny... I did a little googling.... And there are a number of posts by [anynamehere]123 across different breed forums, all praising Annamaet and criticizing Champion.....

Did Annamaet hire a "social media intern" or something??


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## kam214

Well...all know is I have multiple PMs from this tomtommy whatever sable whatever person. They keep sending me links to Shiba Inu forums, Labrador forums and cat forums with "Orijen is the devil" posts. 

That alone makes me think this tomtommy person is hired BY Annamaet to go on ALL dog and cat forums to bash the competitor...Orijen and Acana. 

Furthermore, IF Orijen and Champion is THAT bad, this person is completely missing their goal of getting people to switch. It only looks suspicious as well as inaccurate when the same person "just happens" to go on every dog and cat breed forum????

I mean, I have a GSD so why in the world would I go on a Shiba Inu or Lab forum?

So, at the end of the day...Annamaet is made to look bad, not Orijen. Too much push into hating a certain brand quite often has the opposite intended effect, whether or not it is factual.

As far as IP's go, every computer in the same house/business WILL have the same IP if it is a static IP. If it is a dynamic IP (as a lot of businesses use) it will change very often. Most fraudsters use WiFi from Starbucks, etc. from their phones or Wifi tablet/iPad to create aliases...not that hard to do.

Funny considering tomtommy send me a PM setting Orijen PAYS people to go online into chat rooms/forums to say glowing things about Orijen. Isn't that what to tomtommy is doing with Annamaet? Stones/glass houses...Pot/kettle??? 

I only opened this thread to ask a simple question from a basic, yet uneducated statement from the feed store manager. I mean, all they said was it was "better" but could not articulate why. That brought me here. I did not intent to start a pi$$ing match about dog food and to receive multiple PMs with all links to different forums. 

At the event of the day, I will feed my dog what she likes and what she does well on regardless of hype, whatever brand that may be.

Right now, that brand is Orijen unless I see a negative change in her.


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## GSDAlphaMom

You can do a block on him that works on threads, I have no idea if it works on pm's...though I would think/hope so. You can check with the mods.

This is his M.O. and he likes to stir up controversy and has been banned with other usernames.


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## Lucy Dog

And the plot thickens....

Hey tomtomtomymmtommy ... how come I don't get any pm's!? I feel left out.



kam214 said:


> At the event of the day, I will feed my dog what she likes and what she does well on regardless of hype, whatever brand that may be.
> 
> Right now, that brand is Orijen unless I see a negative change in her.


And by far the smartest comment i've read in this thread by far. This is the right attitude.


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## kam214

Lucy Dog said:


> And the plot thickens....
> 
> Hey tomtomtomymmtommy ... how come I don't get any pm's!? I feel left out.
> 
> 
> 
> And by far the smartest comment i've read in this thread by far. This is the right attitude.


Other than the fact that I wrote, "Event" instead of "end of" the day? LOL...darn iPad auto fill :wild:


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## Castlemaid

tomtommy has been banned since signing up with a new acount to get around a previous ban is against board rules (but you all know that, right?) 

So very sorry Paul that you won't be getting your PM's.


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## Lucy Dog

Banned again?!? It's a sad day for dog food nuts everywhere. We'll miss you sable tommy.


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## BlackGSD

Castlemaid said:


> tomtommy has been banned.....


:hug: :happyboogie: :thumbup: :groovy: :hugs: :dancingtree:


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## GSDAlphaMom

BlackGSD said:


> :hug: :happyboogie: :thumbup: :groovy: :hugs: :dancingtree:


 
Tracy how do you really feel?!  Love the poop banana!
What's great is he can see this from a vistor view but can't post!


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## BlackGSD

Lol


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## Cassidy's Mom

kam214 said:


> Funny considering tomtommy send me a PM setting Orijen PAYS people to go online into chat rooms/forums to say glowing things about Orijen.


They DO? Where's my check?!?!?! :laugh: 

I've tried a lot of dog foods over the years, and although I hate paying the high prices, I have nothing but good things to say about how my dogs have done on Orijen. I did switch Halo to Earthborn Holistics Primitive Natural awhile ago and she's doing fine. I still think her coat was a little better on Orijen, but at half the price we'll make do with Earthborn. 

I tried switching Keefer over for a few bags of Earthborn's fish based formula and ended up switching him back to Orijen. I'd love to say it's not so, but unfortunately I saw a major difference with him, and he's doing much better now that he's back on Orijen 6 Fish.



> Isn't that what to tomtommy is doing with Annamaet? Stones/glass houses...Pot/kettle???


Yep, we're pretty sure he's a shill, but he always dodges the question. He simply won't believe that everyone who buys Orijen isn't doing so because they like the "prestige" of spending $$$$ on their pet food. Yeah, 'cause pet food is a prestige item, like expensive purses or watches or something.  I personally think it's more likely that someone is going to think you're nuts for spending that much for a bag of dog food than to be impressed by it, but whatever.


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## Kyad02

Seems people push Annameat because it is sold by independent distributers. Reminds ne of Amsoil ,also sold by independent distributers ,on the motorcycle/car forums I read. Nothing else is any good (Mobil One is the top target aka Orijen).


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## Wolfgeist

BlackGSD said:


> The second ingredient is potato, the third ingredient is CATFISH MEAL. Probably why it smells fishy. Besides the fact that the first listed fat is a FISH oil!
> 
> I do find it funny that they call that their "red meat" formula yet half of the meat in that formula is FISH.
> 
> Is it "better" than Orijen? No. But I wouldn't call it junk.
> 
> As was already said, if you are happy with how your dog is doing on the Orijen, I wouldn't bother changing.


I support this reply. I am just going to quote it since I would have said the same thing. Haha.


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## BritneyP

tomtommy said:


> You must be living in a bubble.
> 
> Bedford Capital: Investment Situations
> 
> The CEO of Champion is now Frank Burdzy, family is out, and his whole career was spent in the chemical business. When you read the above link keep in mind there are business buzzwords. They are just candy-coated words for cashing out. He was installed likely by the new owners. Doesn't seem like he has much experience with animal nutrition. Selling propane and fertilizer, yes. Pretty sad.
> 
> Morinville News News Archive Deputy Mayor unimpressed with Champion Petfoods presentation
> 
> This is common knowledge. The plant is so outdated that no amount of money can really fix it. Being run out of town.
> 
> The rest you know, don't pretend. Griffin Industries is a big supplier of protein and it has a dubious business in all forms of industrial rendering. Doesn't seem right given the marketing of these foods.
> 
> There is a women in Australia called The Cats Mother that spent months unravelling the whole radiation scandal. The role of Griffin and all the inconsistencies.
> 
> It is a good read.
> 
> So, I have never met this pet store owner but I have to agree. There are much better choices.



No joke, what kind of lunatic dedicates ALL their time to scour online DOG FORUMS, getting banned repeatedly, creating multiple usernames to vomit the same information OVER and OVER again.. you literally sound like a crazy person. Though I find it extremely amusing, I am also sad for you.


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## shaner

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I'll say I've only heard good things about Annamaet. Still a smaller company so they have better quality control than the larger companies.


A smaller company doesn't automatically have better quality control than larger companies. I get why you say that as the larger a company gets, the less they care about quality, but a small company doesn't automatically care about quality control anymore than say diamond or P&G would.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog

kam214 said:


> I already told the manager I was happy with Orijen overall...they were VERY pushy about the Annamaet and how much better it was. I told them that was all good and well, but we liked Orijen.
> 
> I was asking here out of curiosity since people here know more than your average feed store personel


LOL, they are most likely gonna make a bigger profit off the Annamaet product. The store is in business to make money not push the best dog food. After going to Annamaet's site I found this to be the best product on their main page, Ugh. I do admit I should have looked harder.

*Ingredient List:*
Chicken Meal, Chicken, Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)). *Ground Corn*, Menhaden Fish Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Whole Dry Eggs, *Brewers* Dried Yeast, Menhaden Fish Oil (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Flax Seed Meal, Lecithin, *Salt*, DL Methionine, Potassium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, L-Lysine, Proprionic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Citric Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, *Sodium Selenite,* Calcium Iodate

Orijen Adult

*INGREDIENTS* Fresh boneless chicken*, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon*, turkey meal, herring meal, russet potato, peas, sweet potato, fresh boneless turkey*, fresh whole eggs*, fresh chicken liver*, fresh boneless lake whitefish*, fresh boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium. 

I have a hard time giving any thought into Annamaet being in the same league. I did not look through their site with a fine tooth comb. But when I see this ingredient list, I quit looking.


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## 65Champagne

My dogs eat Orijen, my kids, wife and I eat organic meats, veggies and fruits. I make lunches in the morning, on bread that I made. Most people think I am out of my mind on what I spend to feed 2 dogs and 6 people. At Kindergarten graduation today I got to see first hand what the school lunch program is all about, and that was after we "celebrated" with the $5.00 pizza brand and chocolate mini donuts. I think I would rather see my kids eat Orijen.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

65Champagne said:


> My dogs eat Orijen, my kids, wife and I eat organic meats, veggies and fruits. I make lunches in the morning, on bread that I made. Most people think I am out of my mind on what I spend to feed 2 dogs and 6 people. At Kindergarten graduation today I got to see first hand what the school lunch program is all about, and that was after we "celebrated" with the $5.00 pizza brand and chocolate mini donuts. I think I would rather see my kids eat Orijen.


 
LOL, A friend of mine once picked up a can of Merrick in my kitchen and said it looked good, then was surprised when I said it was dog food!


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## 65Champagne

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> LOL, A friend of mine once picked up a can of Merrick in my kitchen and said it looked good, then was surprised when I said it was dog food!


Hah! Some of this stuff looks good to me too. My next door neighbor makes home made carob brownies for her dogs, and left some with us. My dogs wouldn't go near them, but my 17 yr old went to town. You should of seen the look on his face when we told them what they were. We weren't home, and he figured they were fair game. (he did think there was something wrong with them, but not enough to stop him from eating them). My teenagers counter surf more than any dog I have ever owned.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

65Champagne said:


> Hah! Some of this stuff looks good to me too. My next door neighbor makes home made carob brownies for her dogs, and left some with us. My dogs wouldn't go near them, but my 17 yr old went to town. You should of seen the look on his face when we told them what they were. We weren't home, and he figured they were fair game. (he did think there was something wrong with them, but not enough to stop him from eating them). My teenagers counter surf more than any dog I have ever owned.


I like those too!


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## 3ToesTonyismydog

Thanks for the chuckle you guys that was good. When Tony was a puppy I opened up a can of Innova Large Breed Puppy and it smelled so good I almost tasted it. Have you ever fed Evanders hunk of beef? Looks good enough to heat up and eat.


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