# Sudden aggressive behavior with 9 month old!



## petite (Apr 5, 2014)

I have a 9 month old intact female GSD from working lines that showed some insane behavior yesterday and I'm looking for opinions on how to proceed. Faun is a typical GSD puppy for the most part. Full of drive, wiggly with people. She's starting to show some reactivity at the front window of the home and on walks towards people and dogs that we are working on. 

Yesterday, my housemate was coming with groceries in the front door. Faun usually is excited, wiggling and sometimes pushed past people to follow them back in. A second person in the home went to hold Faun still so first person wouldn't drop groceries on her. I was in the backyard at the time.

From what I gather from housemates, while Faun was being held still by the open door, a man rode by on a bike and she completely lost it. She charged out the door, to the sidewalk and was barking, hackles up, following him at a distance. Her recall is good, she paused when she heard a call to come but the man on the bike, now headed across the street, shouted for us to get the dog. 

Faun lost it again and chased him across the street, ignoring my housemates. They screamed for me and I came running through the house to find my dog across a busy street, barking at yelling biker, following him at about 3 feet or so. I called her (she's my dog and I do her training/have the best recall with her), and she paused and came back across the street to me.

This pup is extremely lucky she wasn't hit by a car. Even when she came to me, she was struggling, flailing and still carrying on. She had blown her anal glands as well, a first for her. 

We do go to weekly classes but I'm considering an in-home consult for this. She scared the heck out of me with this random aggression, perhaps I should have anticipated this when her reactive issues started. I'm hesitant to even walk her and it might be a few weeks before we can get the trainer in for a consult. Is there something we can ask to work on in class that would get us on the right track? Should I manage her at home and keep her away from people in the mean time so she doesn't practice this aggression? Any opinions on what happened here? 

Thank you as usual for any advice!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

How many hours do you have in with GENERAL socialization with out and about in the 'real' world? http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html

Our GSD pups can get WAY too at ease in the home and what they then learn is 'normal' when actually 'normal' should include cows, horses, trucks, wheelchairs, rollerskates, police alarms................ OUTSIDE OF THE HOME and constantly in new places.

Particularly the first few years our pups go thru different mental and physical growth stages so something our pup ignored last week can be TERRIFYING this week. But if we have the great socialization basis (and they did see the same thing just last week) it's much easier for our pup to continue to get the basis to TRUST US and look to us rather than panic and overreact.

I'm going thru all this with my 8 m old pup (Osin, but we meet with her brother Odin so he's in alot of the videos too ) and every week it's on my schedule to arrange a playdate, find a doggy event going on, or just go out and hang on Main St for a few hours.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think this was excited prey drive.
The prey drive is being built by her gawking out the window and seeing folks and cars pass by . She may woof at them , and they go away . Mission accomplished. Behaviour rewarded . Pretty much the same scenario as the mail delivery person that comes to the door and goes away, not because of the dog woofing , but because that is the routine. Dog in his mind thinks he caused the retreat.
Over time the dog is frustrated by the barrier and so the drive is greater . Like a balloon gathering static , one day things will spark and explode .
Proximity to people going about their business , when you take this dog for a walk, is going to excite the dog because now it finally has an outlet for the building tension.

I know a Bouvier that started out with keen interest , then barking , then almost refusing to leave his post (at the window) , then biting at the glass , and finally bouncing off the glass till one push with the dog on its hind feet pushed the glass out and a person was seriously bitten .

That was the end of the dog.

Keep the dog away from the window and re start socializing. Keep the door away from the front door so that people can come and go as they need without the dog streaking out the front door . You don't want the dog doing a bite for any reason and you don't want the dog under a car .


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

What carman said. 
I have a huge bay window at the front of my house and I live right by a sort of country road. People jog the road, ride bikes, and their is a loose dog here and there. We get deliveries all the time, and the fedex guys are terrified of my dogs because they will bump the bay window while going crazy. We had to move our couch in front of it to help some because I was afraid they would go through the window. I don't allow them to do this, but my fiancé does when I'm not home  
The 2 dogs that are the worst at this are my 2 most stable and are not normally fearful at all, so it's not fear for them. One of the first things I teach my dogs when I bring them home is, NO RUNNING OUT THE FRONT DOOR AS YOU PLEASE! There would have been no activity at the door for mine as you are describing Because they aren't allowed to crowd people coming in or out. They must sit at the front door and wait for me to tell them it's ok before they can ever go out the front door. There are huge repercussions for not following that rule. I have never ever had an issue with them and things going by out front for this reason. 
If this was one of mine acting like you described at the door, there would have been a correction and put in a different room, crate, or down stay. They do not react to these things on walks, only from my house or yard. That is just behavior I would never allow to occur from the start. 
They are not allowed to react out in my fenced bark yard either. They are never out there when im not home, and they have to immediately come back inside if they are out barking or fence running.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think the blowing of the anal glands and the hackling had to do with the sheer excitement , the release of built up chase tensions . 

Change the situation in the home .

Then I would go out of my way to set up scenarios with co-operating friend , to expose the dog to bicycles again . Even the slightest attention to the moving bike will yield a negative reinforcement , refocus , then praise.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I'lll just add to the recommendation regarding doors --- especially important as it seems you live near a busy street.

I teach mine "wait" - that means I can go out the door and you cannot until I tell you it is OK. They may get to go out or they may need to stay inside while I go out.

Another thing is to train yourself and your roommates to be very aware of what's going on outside, maybe make several trips with groceries instead of lugging it all in in one or two etc.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

My dog is not allowed anywhere near the front door period. Our house is almost entirely glass so by the time someone gets to the front door he would work himself all up. I don't really give him a command, I just started by pushing him back until he was far away from the door. He's only allowed near the door or out of it when I say. I can now leave the door open, bring groceries or let people in without him moving. He's so concentrated on staying still that his focus is off of what's going on around the door


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## petite (Apr 5, 2014)

Thank you for the advice everyone, it's really a great help. I took Faun on a walk and gave her opportunities to see dogs, people, and bikes and get reactive. I try to work positively with her as classes have stressed puppies shouldn't be harshly corrected. However, my puppy is not going to be the one to attack someone.

Faun started to get reactive with the usual culprits (certain people, all dogs) and with a few short corrections, I could see her exercising some self control that grew better with each experience. By the end of the walk, she was engaged with me completely and ignoring 90% of the stimulation she is reactive towards. I'm actually a little shocked she did so well and am having to reevaluate my training techniques. 

What is the best way to work this technique with her at the large living room window? I don't want to kill any warning bark in her but I don't want her barking at every man, woman and child walking past our house. We had been working on letting her alert, then "thank you" to get her attention, click and treat her retreating from the window but this is working less and less as she gets older. 

As far as the door bolting, is there a better way than asking for a long down stay? Rather than opening the door into the dog and telling her to down or something, creating a no cross barrier near the door?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

petite said:


> What is the best way to work this technique with her at the large living room window? I don't want to kill any warning bark in her but I don't want her barking at every man, woman and child walking past our house.* We had been working on letting her alert, then "thank you" to get her attention, *click and treat her retreating from the window but this is working less and less as she gets older.


I would REALLY continue to take her out and about in the world daily or at least a few times a week. This will lessen her general high alert because there are so many new, maybe alarming (to her), opportunities coming up that allow you to instantly let her know you saw it too, and it's ok. 

Every time you do this successfully it transfer her trust to you that YOU are in control, you will deal with a situation (if needed) and when you say it's ok, well darn it all it is! Every time you say it's ok... it is! So they learn to look to you, trust you, rely on you and LISTEN TO YOU!

As far as in the house, this goes in conjunction with the socialization. When our dogs ignore us and continue to alarm bark and over react, they can do it for the fun of it but they ALSO can be doing it because they really do feel that the only security in the house and way to keep the scary out is them. And if they think it's up to them you are just annoying when you try to quiet them. Once we hand over the reins to our dog and they think it's their job, they we need to work to get back in the picture to show that HEY I can deal with this, chill 

So it's the 'quiet' command you need to work on. After only ONE bark as far as I'm concerned I'd be coming to see what is the issue tell the dog it's ok and then they need to quiet. 

The EARLIER YOU GET THERE THE BETTER! Once they are in a frenzy you aren't dealing with just an alarm but that frenzy over the top not able to listen dog. 

A bit of general training with huge distraction actually. So if she's so nuts she won't sit during these times, or 'come' during these times, let alone 'quiet' during these times, you have a general 'have to work on training with distractions' going on with the addition of teaching a NEW command (quiet).

If you need to crate her for awhile if you aren't able to be with her, that may help calm her brain and get her off the constant over-the-top guard duty she may feel you put her in. Otherwise, start working training OUTSIDE THE HOUSE/YARD in new places with distractions. And work on the 'quiet' command. After ONE bark you need to move and get her rewarded praised for calming before she's over the top and you lose the 'battle' until the next opportunity.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think you are inadvertently rewarding the dog . She alerts , comes and gets her reward and then reloads into position. The selection of what she alerts to will be less discriminating - anything will do to get the reward .
That is why your method is not working for you . It is working for the dog because the frequency of the rewards has increased.

No barking . Leave it . Those people passing are no threat .

Next time -- a quick decisive NO , leave it , be quiet . 
Same as you would use on the street when the dog is distracted . You want to pre-empt the reaction .


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Do you use a crate? My dogs are allowed a few barks, and then I silence them. If they keep it up, they are isolated for a while, which they don't like. I use either the crate or the back yard, or a barrier that keeps them way from the front door. Then we do it again. If they respond well, they can stay near the door, if not, they are removed from the area.

You can work on this by having a lot of different people your dog doesn't know or doesn't know well come to the door. Tell your dog Back as you go to open the door, and then make sure the dog moves back. Eventually, people at the door or walking by will be no big deal. I also teach my dogs to Go to your spot. If they are told, they must go and lie down in their spot, then wait to be released. A dog that is following a lie down and stay command won't budge until given permission. 

Transitions, like people going in and out, can be stressful for a dog if they don't know exactly what you want from them. You need to teach her in non stressful situations.


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## petite (Apr 5, 2014)

My pup is not kept in the backyard and our home. However, her reactivity is new behavior that I'm at a bit of a loss about. As a positive reinforcement exclusive handler, I'm having to take a different approach because what I was doing was not even working slightly. She is too over threshold, even with stimulus across the street or two blocks away. 

I will work on quiet with her and interrupting her behavior. We have an elderly female dog who is getting cataracts and over reacting at the window herself, so it's probably best we x-pen off the area while we work on this. 

Faun is crate trained. I have not used the crate for sleeping since she was being potty trained but use it now and then for naps. Usually it's not used. I have never used it for time outs or really anything unpleasant. 

Is it reasonable to expect a reliable down stay at her age? How long of a duration? It's been beaten into my head to take training slowly and make it fun with no correction but I'm starting to feel this method may work for a less driven pup but possibly not Faun.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

petite said:


> My pup is not kept in the backyard and our home. However, her reactivity is new behavior that I'm at a bit of a loss about. As a positive reinforcement exclusive handler, I'm having to take a different approach because what I was doing was not even working slightly. She is too over threshold, even with stimulus across the street or two blocks away.
> 
> I will work on quiet with her and interrupting her behavior. We have an elderly female dog who is getting cataracts and over reacting at the window herself, so it's probably best we x-pen off the area while we work on this.
> 
> ...


There is definitely a place for fun and treats. But, ultimately I have to have my German Shepherd under control. Thank goodness I have a trainer with lots of GSD experience. A prong collar and an e-collar, in some instances, has been very effect.

I a newbie to GSDs so I have little to offer in way of advice.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Look up NILIF or Nothing in Life is Free. It could work with this. We use it when a dog gets out of control. We've had quite a few fosters that didn't know how to behave indoors, or at all, and we are usually successful at turning bad behaviors around. She's young enough that you should be able to stop it. I had some terrible startle behaviors with a rescued puppy that escalated into barking at strangers walking by. We started walking the dog past dozens of people and dogs, didn't react but just kept on walking. Someone else said you must be rewarding her without realizing it.

I use a combination of the crate or other isolation, a lot of exercise and socialization. I also use a cageless kennel daycare once a week for dogs that need socialization with both people and animals. I checked out several before selecting one.


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## petite (Apr 5, 2014)

Update on Faun: After speaking with our usual trainer (positive reinforcement only) about these issues and advised to keep her under threshold, I started to lose confidence. When explaining my pup is chasing people down the street and has no interest in hotdogs, I was told to find a "higher value reward". Sigh.

I had been researching dog sports as it was and contacted a trainer who I liked the recommendations of but didn't go with them since they use negative punishment. 

She knew what Faun was doing before I even explained completely. I was willing to shell out for a private lesson but was told to come to group beginning lessons and work it out there. Needless to say I was nervous. Faun is reactive to dogs on the next block, much less in the same room...

PHENOMENAL CHANGE OCCURRED. I'm sorry to use all caps but my puppy was working sits with a intact male rott less than 2 feet from us (who was also reactive). I just had her on her flat collar and gentle leader. I'm proud of her and thankful I decided to start with a trainer more worried about what my GSD needs to succeed, not about their own personal training hangups. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

petite said:


> Update on Faun: After speaking with our usual trainer (positive reinforcement only) about these issues and advised to keep her under threshold, I started to lose confidence. When explaining my pup is chasing people down the street and has no interest in hotdogs, I was told to find a "higher value reward". Sigh.
> 
> I had been researching dog sports as it was and contacted a trainer who I liked the recommendations of but didn't go with them since they use negative punishment.
> 
> ...



So glad to hear it!! Great job in looking for a trainer that fits your and Faun's needs.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

OP "However, her reactivity is new behavior that I'm at a bit of a loss about."

----- learned behaviour that got reinforced 

Apprenticeship -- get both of them away from the window 
"We have an elderly female dog who is getting cataracts and over reacting at the window herself, so it's probably best we x-pen off the area while we work on this. "

you would prevent the problem by taking her away from the window and door -- allowing you a positive environment with only the desirable behaviour .
Much easier than this too-late , needing 100% immediate well timed response from you to stop it. Some things become self rewarding .
OP "I will work on quiet with her and interrupting her behavior."

A driven dog would be very easy to modify . 

OP frustrated said " When explaining my pup is chasing people down the street and has no interest in hotdogs, I was told to find a "higher value reward"

- nope , no negotiating . 
Faun will be out there , you chasing her with bribes , she in a different unreachable mind zone , and one day a higher value risk , not reward , will stop her - hit by a car, or dealt with when she makes the catch and bites out of excitement . Positively not a good chain of events. 

YEAH "I decided to start with a trainer more worried about what my GSD needs to succeed, not about their own personal training hangups. " Keep on doing that . Take charge .


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## Tiffseagles (May 12, 2010)

I'm curious, did you ever use tug instead of food when working on her reactivity issue?


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