# ISO of Washington state White, short hair, GSD (not White Shepherds/Berger Blancs)



## WA family (May 29, 2019)

Hello community - this is a continuation of my original post titled, “HEIDENROSLEIN GERMAN SHEPHERDS in Olympia, Washington”


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

We’re researching breeders of short haired, GSDs, prefer White coloring (not long haired WS/BB) then gray sable but really will go after temperament and health for pet quality family member. 

Are there any Washington short haired, White GSDs reputable breeders/kennels?

I ran across this kennel, 
Heidenroslein German Shepherds LLC, 
https://heidenrosleingermanshepherds.com/ from AKC marketplace.

Are there any members that have pups from Heidenroslein?

I fell in love with an awesome GSD in Cannon Beach, OR hanging out it’s owner’s gallery but breeder has since retired.


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

*ISO White, short hair, GSD (not White Shepherds/Berger Blancs) breeders in WA state*

Please mention your top online research tools.

Here’s my list so far:
https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog
https://www.germanshepherddatabase.org/
https://www.dogbreedinfo.com/akcbreeds.htm


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

WA family said:


> We’re researching breeders of short haired, GSDs, prefer White coloring (not long haired WS/BB) then gray sable but really will go after temperament and health for pet quality family member.
> 
> Are there any Washington short haired, White GSDs reputable breeders/kennels?
> 
> ...


There is nothing on the website that would make me want to buy a dog from them. It's possible they are doing more than the website shows, I don't know?

I'd recommend my dog's breeder but she is on the east coast and that doesn't really help you. I don't know if AWSA might be able to recommend someone.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hello WA Family and WELCOME!:greet:

The HEIDENROSLEIN GERMAN SHEPHERDS site is very vague.
Does not show any sires or dams, does not show health testing which is VERY important when purchasing a GSD. Their site is a red flag for me.

Give this thread a several days for response. There are several on this board with White GSD's that may be able to help.

Please remember that this is a *10 year or more commitment*, so *don't rush into it *and *be opened to travel outside your area or even have a pup shipped. *
We traveled 1500 miles for one of our dogs!!


Great statement from Wolfstraum (WL breeder) on this board: “Distance should NOT be the criteria by which you choose a dog - but knowledge of the dogs and what they bring to the breeding and where they are going in the future in their breeding program should be more important.”


Best of luck in your search!
Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

This is an old thread but gives some names of White GSD breeders:
https://www.germanshepherds.com/for...n/171022-looking-white-gsd-breeders-us-2.html 

Moms


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

@Thecowboysgirl and @Momto2GSDs - thank you both for your honest comments. This is our first breeder purchase and it’s a little intimidating considering the effort and money that will go in the puppy or dog.

The primary reason we’re considering local breeders is the physical and mental stress to the puppy when being shipped; granted I haven’t researched this yet.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

WA family said:


> @Thecowboysgirl and @Momto2GSDs - thank you both for your honest comments. This is our first breeder purchase and it’s a little intimidating considering the effort and money that will go in the puppy or dog.
> 
> The primary reason we’re considering local breeders is the physical and mental stress to the puppy when being shipped; granted I haven’t researched this yet.


Something to consider, a well bred puppy that has a genetically stable temperament and comes from a breeder that is putting a lot of effort into the health of the pup should have no issue being shipped or going on a long car ride. I recently drove from Ft. Worth, Texas, to Ottawa, Kansas, to pick up my current puppy. The drive was harder on me than the pup, he did great and assimilated into the home without issue. I know lots of breeders who ship pups regularly with zero issue.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My King Charles came from Minneapolis and flown to Airport in New Jersey in a February many years ago. The flight was cancelled once due to weather and then a few delays. She was absolutely fine and alwAys solid pup. So I would not hesitate to ship if the breeder ships as long as they come very highly recommend. I always like going to visit the breeder as exciting experience but picking her up at the airport was very exciting to and remember it to this very day and getting lost on the way home lol! Consider breeders who you cAn speak to happy owners even if they are far away.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Though he has a different kind of temperament from other GSDs I've had (and have), I really like my white shepherd. I would look for a breeder who health tests their breeding stock and titles them in show and/or some kind of performance/work. Although white shepherds aren't allowed to show in the AKC, they can compete in UKC or other venues. This isn't a recommendation as I haven't met the breeders or their dogs in person, but I think this list is a good place to start. 

https://www.awsaclub.com/white-shep...0g8ageWRViDPbvdl6fRYVSx0VSQ1nvl8D_kLOPzhE2IVo


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

WA family said:


> @Thecowboysgirl and @Momto2GSDs - thank you both for your honest comments. This is our first breeder purchase and it’s a little intimidating considering the effort and money that will go in the puppy or dog.
> 
> The primary reason we’re considering local breeders is the physical and mental stress to the puppy when being shipped; granted I haven’t researched this yet.


Healthy pups from a reputable breeder should have no issues being shipped even over considerable distance. Our pup came from Poland. He had a vet check prior to leaving the EU and was checked stateside after landing in Chicago. The second leg of his flight took him through LA before heading to Washington state. We were expecting a tired worn out pup, but he came out of his crate with the zoomies like he owned the place. Good strong pups are not fragile.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

sebrench said:


> Though he has a different kind of temperament from other GSDs I've had (and have), I really like my white shepherd. I would look for a breeder who health tests their breeding stock and titles them in show and/or some kind of performance/work. Although white shepherds aren't allowed to show in the AKC, they can compete in UKC or other venues. This isn't a recommendation as I haven't met the breeders or their dogs in person, but I think this list is a good place to start.
> 
> https://www.awsaclub.com/white-shep...0g8ageWRViDPbvdl6fRYVSx0VSQ1nvl8D_kLOPzhE2IVo


Agree. My white dog is terrific, love him to death. His parents had dozens of titles between them in conformation, competition obedience, AKC tracking, nosework, flyball, agility, his sire had a BH as well.

Why does that matter if you only want a pet? It matters because my breeder has hauled her dogs all over the place and worked with them in a variety of sometimes stressful environments. Call her breeder #1 She has seen her dogs interact with strangers, seen them work in the presence of strange people and strange dogs. 

Contrast that with a breeder whose dogs rarely or never leave the property. Call her breeder #2. Dogs who are not trained in any discipline. This breeder does NOT know how those dogs will respond to those challenges. 

Breeder #1 can choose to remove a dog from her breeding program for poor temperament that has been exposed through work. Or pair that dog with another one with strengths to correct whatever weakness. 

Breeder #1 knows just how biddable her dogs are. Breeder #2...maybe not?

Breeder #1 does extensive health testing and participates in the white shepherd genetics project. 

Breeder #2 will probably tell you "we've never had a problem". And how would they know? They don't health test their dogs and you can't always see hip displasia and you won't see DM till it is way too late and that dog has already sired dozens of litters. Their puppy owners aren't competing in conformation or any other discipline and have no reason to test for these issues and they are likely to also say "never had an issue" 

Breeder #2 is less likely to provide meaningful breeder support and even know if there is an issue.

It matters. 

And, yes, ship a puppy if you can't find what you want where you are. I've only shipped one of my 3 but she made it from New Mexico to Boston and popped out of her crate ready to take on the world.

Lastly, I do think there are way fewer really good breeders of whites. There are fewer white breeders period. Of those plenty of places you don't want a dog from just like any other line of shepherd. Choose very carefully.


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## TAPAL2017 (May 21, 2017)

Hi WA Family,


Here is a link to a breeder in Canada that I would consider top tier--- long history of well bred, health tested dogs with good temperament that have contributed to the continuation of the white shepherd. I've worked with several of their progeny over time with good results: Hoofprint & Lynsdens 



IF this is your first shepherd pup-- please make sure to do your breed research and prepare for the lifestyle change that they require for mental stimulation, ongoing training, and age appropriate exercise to ensure its a good match for you and your family situation.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Nice post cowboysgirl.

I'd like to add, breeders don't always have information on their websites that we're curious about. When someone sees a website lacking pedigrees, health reports etc. all it takes is a simple phone call or email to get questions answered. In other words, I wouldn't immediately discount a breeder based on a lack of information via a website. In that same line of thought, don't always assume everything you're reading is true. Breeders have been known to embellish the facts. That's not a yay or nay for the breeder in question, I know nothing about them, just a reminder that websites don't always tell the whole story. 

For the OP I am curious as to why you've indicated you prefer a white GSD over a WS/BBS. Is it the long coat you're trying to avoid?


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

Thank you everyone for their comments! 

I’m soaking up all the advice and learning.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

Keep us updated! Let us know when you find a pup, and post pictures! Good luck!


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

@Whiteshepherds - hello and thank you for chiming in; 

For the OP I am curious as to why you've indicated you prefer a white GSD over a WS/BBS. Is it the long coat you're trying to avoid?

- Yes, we're avoiding long coats in all GSDs and I understand that the FCI breed standard is more long coat. We visited Wildwood Shepherds and the two dogs we liked that are being considered for her program are both long coats. Other than that, I love the more rectangular look of the body/back and more mellow nature. From my limited exposure, I tend to gravitate to GSDs that have more working line/Czech ("ugly dog") ancestry....blocky head, rectangular body/back, not overly large, healthier..


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

@kimbale - Thank you


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

@TAPAL2017 - Thank you! Reviewing the breeder 

This will be our 2nd shepherd but 1st purebred GSD and breeder purchase. Our first sheppy was a GSD mix (Sunday was her name) we adopted from PAWS in 2012. Her folder said that she was rescued from a high kill shelter from California and about 2 years old. On our first vet check, we discovered that she was more like 4 or 5 years old based on her eyes and generally healthy. She was so NOT a dog for first time dog owners - there was a hard month where I spent so many times in my closet crying because walking outside with her was so bad - she was dog reactive on-leash and very sensitive to fireworks, thunder and security alarm sounds - other than that she was perfect for us. We were in active dog training classes (private and group) for the first 2 years we had her and then passive training every day. Everyone got to know and trust each other. It was awesome.

When we found ourselves expecting our first kiddo, we got ourselves and Sunday prepared for the introduction. It went beautifully. We had hoped that we would see her bond with our kiddo blossom as he grew older, but it was not meant to be. Our son was 19 months when we rushed Sunday to the emergency Vet. She went into surgery to remove her spleen due to a growth the vet found. We were optimistic that we had dodged the bullet due to the size of the growth but lab work came back and unfortunately the growth was malignant. She had one last great October then passed away before Thanksgiving 2017.


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

Nigel said:


> Healthy pups from a reputable breeder should have no issues being shipped even over considerable distance. Our pup came from Poland. He had a vet check prior to leaving the EU and was checked stateside after landing in Chicago. The second leg of his flight took him through LA before heading to Washington state. We were expecting a tired worn out pup, but he came out of his crate with the zoomies like he owned the place. Good strong pups are not fragile.


 @Nigel - thank you!


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Agree. My white dog is terrific, love him to death. His parents had dozens of titles between them in conformation, competition obedience, AKC tracking, nosework, flyball, agility, his sire had a BH as well.
> 
> Why does that matter if you only want a pet? It matters because my breeder has hauled her dogs all over the place and worked with them in a variety of sometimes stressful environments. Call her breeder #1 She has seen her dogs interact with strangers, seen them work in the presence of strange people and strange dogs.
> 
> ...


Your response is EXACTLY what I'm looking for and need more of. As this is my first foray into interviewing breeders, my preferred method of communication is email so I can go back and add to my of list of questions.

I could have sworn I saw a guide on the forum on the basic things to look for when interviewing breeders but couldn't find it....hence my posts.


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Nice post cowboysgirl.
> 
> I'd like to add, breeders don't always have information on their websites that we're curious about. When someone sees a website lacking pedigrees, health reports etc. all it takes is a simple phone call or email to get questions answered. In other words, I wouldn't immediately discount a breeder based on a lack of information via a website. In that same line of thought, don't always assume everything you're reading is true. Breeders have been known to embellish the facts. That's not a yay or nay for the breeder in question, I know nothing about them, just a reminder that websites don't always tell the whole story.
> 
> For the OP I am curious as to why you've indicated you prefer a white GSD over a WS/BBS. Is it the long coat you're trying to avoid?


 @Whiteshepherds - The owner of the Olympia, WA kennel I initially posted about responded quickly and invited me to call or text. My second email out asked if he provided pedigrees and registration as well as if he has PennHIP/OFA #s on his dogs.

I hope to reach out to owner but am a bit intimidated as I don't know what to ask and with the amount of money we're taking about, I don't want buyer's remorse and be treated rudely or pressured.

Advise anyone?

-- Our dogs are AKC registered. Prices you saw on the website: $1000 for limited and $2000 for full. I think you can buy a pedigree from AKC for $15 or so. *We have never had hip or elbow dyspepsia.* By titled do you mean champions? Please call me with questions as these *e-mail chains are slow and frustrating* to me since a conversation can relay the information so much more efficiently. Thank you. --


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## WA family (May 29, 2019)

sebrench said:


> Keep us updated! Let us know when you find a pup, and post pictures! Good luck!


 @sebrench - crossing my fingers we find a good breeder! Thank you for your input. Please chime in should you have any other advise or breeder recommendation.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

WA family said:


> @Whiteshepherds - hello and thank you for chiming in;
> 
> For the OP I am curious as to why you've indicated you prefer a white GSD over a WS/BBS. Is it the long coat you're trying to avoid?
> 
> - Yes, we're avoiding long coats in all GSDs and I understand that the FCI breed standard is more long coat. We visited Wildwood Shepherds and the two dogs we liked that are being considered for her program are both long coats. Other than that, I love the more rectangular look of the body/back and more mellow nature. From my limited exposure, I tend to gravitate to GSDs that have more working line/Czech ("ugly dog") ancestry....blocky head, rectangular body/back, not overly large, healthier..


I don't like the look of long coat whites...I actually don't like the more square look of the BBS vs the white GSD, that's just personal preference of mine.

I wouldn't get a long coat because I don't want to deal with it...I board enough dogs with longer hair I know I don't want to take care of it on a dog of mine.

It looks like Wildwood does have some shortcoat puppies expected in 2019? Or maybe those litters already happened.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't like the look of long coat whites...I actually don't like the more square look of the BBS vs the white GSD, that's just personal preference of mine.
> 
> I wouldn't get a long coat because I don't want to deal with it...I board enough dogs with longer hair I know I don't want to take care of it on a dog of mine.
> 
> It looks like Wildwood does have some shortcoat puppies expected in 2019? Or maybe those litters already happened.


Agree on the long coats, all the hair can be a pita. Rangers tail collects "samples" on every hike we go on.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

WA family said:


> @Whiteshepherds - The owner of the Olympia, WA kennel I initially posted about responded quickly and invited me to call or text. My second email out asked if he provided pedigrees and registration as well as if he has PennHIP/OFA #s on his dogs.
> 
> I hope to reach out to owner but am a bit intimidated as I don't know what to ask and with the amount of money we're taking about, I don't want buyer's remorse and be treated rudely or pressured.
> 
> ...


This sounds to me like the folks who say "we've never had a problem" 

Did the breeder write dyspepsia? Could that be an autocorrect? 

Just a knee jerk response but this response doesn't inspire me at all. AKC registered means nothing at all. "We've never had a problem" means nothing. They should be able to tell you the specific results of each specific breeding dog. OFA will produce a result of Good/Normal, Fair/Normal, Excellent/Normal etc. Are they testing for DM?

Some people definitely aren't email people but they should be able to give you a straightforward answer by phone. That answer should include what events their dogs are titled in, what health testing has been done, and what the specific results were and that information should be readily available for every breeding dog. A "CGC" title shouldn't count in your mind---it's too basic to be a test for suitability for breeding. And there are testers who will pass anything no matter how bad it is, I've witnessed that first hand.

At the very least AKC Obedience titles like CD and above (BN again too basic) require a minimum of two different judges having judged that dog and they are way less likely to look the other way and pass unacceptable behavior. When a reactive GSD came after my dog in the ring they came down on that owner hard and she was told to leave the venue and not allowed to compete in her entries for the next day.

OP, you are obviously trying really hard to weed out a good breeder and I really applaud you for that and you will be glad you did-- but it's a big job to figure out the first time so just take your time.

Lastly I think you said something about worrying about people being rude with you or something to that effect. I'd say---if I were a breeder and I had a person calling me trying to ask me these questions I'd know right off that you were trying to find yourself a really reputable breeder even if your questions came out a little wrong. I'd think if you cared that much to try to ask these questions and really try to find a great breeder, you'd be more likely to be a conscientious puppy owner....if anyone were rude to you or impatient over this type of conversation it probably isn't someone you want to work with anyway. What happens when you have a question about your new puppy and you want to call and get support from your breeder? You want someone nice and supportive on the other end and they are out there, so don't settle for less. There is absolutely no reason to be rude to a potential puppy buy who wants to know if the breeding stock is titled and health tested UNLESS you haven't done it, or don't know what it even is, in which case consider yourself lucky, you didn't want a puppy from them anyway!


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Lastly, if you can't find what you want in white, do consider another line in order to get yourself with w/ a really good breeder. I think that's more important than color and like I said I think there just aren't tons of white breeders that are awesome to choose from


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

When I was searching for Asher (my black/tan GSD) I found several West German showline (WGSL) breeders and working line GSD breeders that I think very highly of within several hours of home. When looking for Levi (my white shepherd) I couldn't find any reputable breeders locally. I was going to have a pup shipped from anywhere in the country, but ended up finding a breeder who didn't ship puppies, but agreed to meet us halfway in Ohio. Anyway, I know the search can be frustrating...but it'll be worth it in the end. Good luck.


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