# schutzhund trainging or pet trainging?



## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

i was very excited when i got a GSD because every lab i have ever owned barks but they dont have the same drive GSD's have, so im not sure if i should go forward with schutzhund? im very interested in the tracking portion of it all and the protection too. but i dont want my baby to be a robot i want him to be my giant love bug still.. he starts petsmart trainging in a week, (whitch i know the course by heart and have already started him on almost everything,) but i like him to be scocialized. what is everyones thoughts on shutzhund? I have friends that do it and love it. so Im confused.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

What is there about SchH training that makes you think it will turn your dog into a robot? The training you will get there is by far superior to the training you would get at PetSmart.

Go and get your dog evaluated and see if you would actually like it. That's the only way to decide if it's for you or not.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Raising a pup for SchH requires a different approach, and PetsMart obedience would be a less than ideal way to start.

If you're serious about SchH, find a local club now and start investigating the training. Folks at a local club should be able to evaluate the pup, and offer guidance on raising a dog for SchH. Until then, I would hold-off on any obedience, and focus simply on socialization, exploring new places, and building the puppy's confidence under your immediate supervision...ensuring only good/positive experiences.


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

yeah im going to take him and have them look at him. Im not sure whu i think he would be a robot.. I just dont want him to be serious all the time. my neighbors had a rottie that did it and he went from fun dog to all buissness. and i e-mailed a group not far from me and they recomend i do not do the petsmart training and schutzhund at the same time that theyare different methods. and ive already started him on a clicker. i think i might just try to teach him tracking on my own. i just would like to have him know the protection part but they said its a sport and he would have to participate in all three parts of the program.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

I would suggest to you that SchH isn't as much a type of training as it is a lifestyle. The level of commitment required is significant in time and money. I also think there are no finer GSDs than those accomplished as working dogs regardless if that is herding, schutzhund, agility or whatever. A GSD with a job never becomes a robot if well trained.


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 2, 2010)

Initially I was concerned about Schutzhund training also (years back) because I thought it was a little too hard core for my taste and especially on a dog. The key in my case was lack of knowledge about the training. I was always open to learning more and went to my local club and watched for several weeks. I was totally impressed. It's not about making the dog a robot at all like you can see some trainers turn their dog into. There's obedience and then stupid trainers who want to impress people and go overboard. Schutzhund training is nothing like that.
It takes the strengths of the breed of the dog and fine tunes them so the dog harnesses what the breed was historically used for. The dogs are completely themselves, they just follow directions.... AWESOMELY and they absolutely LOVE performing. The dogs that I've seen, perform on the field or where they are required to, but off-field they are still the big furry love bugs you're looking for. It doesn't change who they are, their personality, just their skills. 

I would recommend finding a trainer or a club where you live and contact them and see if you can go watch some of their training and ask questions. People are always very willing to share their knowledge, just be open to listen. I plan on beginning this type of training very soon also. I hope this helps


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

mssandslinger said:


> i just would like to have him know the protection part but they said its a sport and he would have to participate in all three parts of the program.


I completely agree with this. Also on the robot thing: my pup has been going to the club since he was 8 weeks old and robot is the last word people would use to describe him!


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

thanks guys that helped a lot! I do want to get him evaluated, the only problem is distance, the closest clubs my e that i found are about an hour away :/ i will continue my search!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

An hour away is actually pretty good. Most people I know here and elsewhere have longer drives than that.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

W.Oliver said:


> I would suggest to you that SchH isn't as much a type of training as it is a lifestyle. The level of commitment required is significant in time and money. I also think there are no finer GSDs than those accomplished as working dogs regardless if that is herding, schutzhund, agility or whatever. A GSD with a job never becomes a robot if well trained.


I agree with Wayne. If you are serious about doing Schutzhund with your dog, it influences everything about how your dog is trained and raised. I still do "pet" dog training and puppy classes with my dogs, but I understand my dogs and have my own Schutzhund "program" for each one, so I know when to bow out of a certain exercise at puppy class. Plus I have a great all-breed pet type trainer that understands and respects my commitment to Schutzhund. She doesn't mind if I do things a little differently than the rest of the puppy class or sit out an exercise because it conflicts with what I'm trying to teach my dog. The "pet" thing and Schutzhund thing aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but you have to understand your dog and your Schutzhund program otherwise there will probably be conflicts.


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

i really appreciate the info guys! It is something i really want to consider.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

mssandslinger said:


> . i think i might just try to teach him tracking on my own. i just would like to have him know the protection part but they said its a sport and he would have to participate in all three parts of the program.


SchH tracking is a very precise type of tracking and unless you know what you are doing, I wouldn't recommend trying it on your own. The reason you can't just do tracking and protection is that the obedience is what holds it all together. Protection is basically just obedience with a bite for a reward. So you can't do SchH without the control that obedience gives you.

I'm not sure if you are worried about being able to continue clicker training or not, but there's no reason you can't.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Just curious - what are the differences in how one should try to raise a puppy destined for sch compared to one who will not be in sch?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

codmaster said:


> Just curious - what are the differences in how one should try to raise a puppy destined for sch compared to one who will not be in sch?


A few examples I can think of from my last puppy class:

Standing in a circle and then rotating who handles which puppy - Sorry, no one handles or trains my dog but me.

Teaching the puppy to give/out/drop toys and things right away, usually with food or "trading" - I don't really do any outing until the dog is older, if we are tugging or playing games with toys I'm focused more on encouraging drive than doing obedience. I teach obedience with food with a little puppy, toys come in later but early on toys are for playing and drive building.

Open puppy playtime/socialization before and after class - When I'm there we are there to work and not socialize, I socialize my dogs with a few friends who have dogs I know well and will be safe with my dogs.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I took Karlo to a beginning obedience class when he was about 4 months.
Part of the training was teaching them not to jump up. I didn't participate in that. And like Lies said, the out was out! The pup should only focus on the handler, no one else, so interaction with other people is not happening during training. 
When young pups come to the club, if it runs up to people the pup gets ignored so it will see that his handler is where he needs to go for his fun and praise.

I did take Karlo to a couple of puppy playgroups early on as he was acting like a bully to an elderly dog(he chomped her in the back), so I wanted him to not be reactive or a "bully" to other dogs.
Even though I had two adult female GSD's I wanted him to see other dogs as no big deal.
He is mostly aloof to other dogs now, I'd much rather have him be this way than reacting to every dog he sees.

If you put too much obedience on a young pup then go on and try to do SchH they may not be as eager to engage, or will act reserved.

I think building confidence, letting them bark and not correcting(though having house manners) is a good start for a SchH pup.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Liesje said:


> .....Standing in a circle and then rotating who handles which puppy - Sorry, no one handles or trains my dog but me.
> 
> Teaching the puppy to give/out/drop toys and things right away, usually with food or "trading" - I don't really do any outing until the dog is older, if we are tugging or playing games with toys I'm focused more on encouraging drive than doing obedience. I teach obedience with food with a little puppy, toys come in later but early on toys are for playing and drive building.
> 
> Open puppy playtime/socialization before and after class - When I'm there we are there to work and not socialize, I socialize my dogs with a few friends who have dogs I know well and will be safe with my dogs.


Why wouldn't you want a puppy to get used to being handled on leash by someone else? I must be a little slow but I don't see what potentially bad impact of this. Do you usually teach this capability later when the dog is older?

The reason I ask is that we once met a famous German judge (we were looking for an imprted GSD puppy) at a dog show and my wife took his personal dog for a walk around the show by herself. When she got back we found out that the dog was hi scoring protection dog at the Sieger show and he was absolutely perfect walking off with my wife.

Regards not teaching the "out" command - is it that if you teach this command to a young dog that it will have a bad impact later? What impact would it have on I assume the bite work in Sch?

Thanks!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

codmaster said:


> Why wouldn't you want a puppy to get used to being handled on leash by someone else?


"Schutz" Protection "Hund" Dog
Your Protection Dog. Your bond with that dog, the dog's focus on you is what it is all about. There is nobody/nothing else when you're working.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

codmaster said:


> Just curious - what are the differences in how one should try to raise a puppy destined for sch compared to one who will not be in sch?


If I were to ever get a working line puppy that I was going to train for SchH, God forbid.......

Maybe more specific to SchH;
I would praise the dog for barking
I would not allow it to be handled/trained by anyone but me
I would not scold it for jumping
I would not scold it for biting
I would not scold it for anything
There is time for work and time for socialization...don't mix the two. I want my SchH puppy to be a bold, confident, land shark....manners and obedience come later.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

W.Oliver said:


> "Schutz" Protection "Hund" Dog
> Your Protection Dog. Your bond with that dog, the dog's focus on you is what it is all about. There is nobody/nothing else when you're working.


What about your wife/husband/kids? Are you saying that all Sch dogs are one person dogs?

If that is the case, then no thank you for me.

i had never heard that before about Sch - I had heard that one does all they can to build the dogs confidence but not the one person only handling.

BTW, I have heard of the English translation of Sch.

Thanks.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

W.Oliver said:


> If I were to ever get a working line puppy that I was going to train for SchH, God forbid.......
> 
> Maybe more specific to SchH;
> I would praise the dog for barking
> ...


When would you start manners for a potential Sch dog? I thought that obedience was a big part of Sch?

Would you teach a dog that it is ok to bite people without teaching the obedience to help control the dog first (or at the same time)?


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

codmaster said:


> What about your wife/husband/kids? Are you saying that all Sch dogs are one person dogs?


You need to visit a SchH club, spend time with some good dogs. The GSD I train in SchH does bite work in the afternoon, and that same evening will sit at a little kids table with a hat and scarf on, with a tea service in front of her while my four year old talks with the teddybear in the next seat. A good GSD can and should do it all. Your family and extended circle of friends become your dog's flock.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

W.Oliver said:


> Maybe more specific to SchH;
> I would praise the dog for barking
> I would not allow it to be handled/trained by anyone but me
> *I would not scold it for jumping*
> ...


No, you mark it with a clicker and reward it with a tug ... :laugh:


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

man i almost want to get my lab into this training, i think she has most of the qualities haha


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

mssandslinger said:


> man i almost want to get my lab into this training, i think she has most of the qualities haha


 
Black Lab or yellow? That would be a sight to see!


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

black lab lol. my boyfriend play fights with her and she jumps and barks and bites arms (not hard just playing) and she is the queen of tug of war! shes a total brat too she is too smart for her own good.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I bet she can track too!


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

probably! she sniff all my plastic bags and knows what ones come from petsmart and she grabs her toys out of it haha.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The biggest difference you will see between pet household obedience and SchH obedience is that we want the dogs to be far freer and more correct. For example a pet dog sits crooked or does a puppy sit (on one hip) it really doesn't matter. In SchH they must sit squarely and straight. Many pet obedience classes put far too much control on the puppies at a young age and can squash the drive and attitudes that we want in all three stages of SchH.

Actually you can teach SchH tracking on your own, but first you must know what the final picture looks like. There are some very good books on tracking available. For the most part I am self taught in tracking. I have received a few pointers over the years, but mostly I did it all on my own. It does require a willingness to experiment and the ability to read your dog. To proof your dog for trials you will need some help so the dog not only gets used to crowds, but having other people lay the tracks once you have the TR1/SchH1.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

codmaster said:


> Why wouldn't you want a puppy to get used to being handled on leash by someone else? I must be a little slow but I don't see what potentially bad impact of this. Do you usually teach this capability later when the dog is older?
> 
> The reason I ask is that we once met a famous German judge (we were looking for an imprted GSD puppy) at a dog show and my wife took his personal dog for a walk around the show by herself. When she got back we found out that the dog was hi scoring protection dog at the Sieger show and he was absolutely perfect walking off with my wife.
> 
> ...


No one does _formal training_ with my Schutzhund dogs but me. Not even my husband. Playing around, having the dog to tricks and get treats, having someone hold the leash while we're on a walk...that's different. My husband often takes my dogs jogging without me and he takes care of them when I'm not around. The actual training and the formal commands, only me. It is out of fairness to the dog. For one my GSDs all have a strong bond with one person. They love my husband and mind him but they don't have the same bond that they do with me. He doesn't have the same grasp for training and handling that I do. To expect the dogs to perform for him like they do for me is not fair for the dog, because he's not the same handler as me. I'm talking about when the dog is in training learning formal commands or being asked to perform them. I don't tell my friends and family their formal commands.

As for the puppy class, I am there to train and to help my dog learn to focus with distraction and have self control. Classes to me are not for socialization. Don't get me wrong, I spend MORE time socializing my puppies than training, but not at the same time, and the socialization is controlled by me, not a training instructor.

I do not teach puppies to out because if I'm using tugs or rags or balls it's for the purpose of bite development and encouraging their drives, not training an out. That comes later on. I don't need my dogs to out like robots on command just to have control of the game. It doesn't really have anything to do with protection, that's a totally different frame of mind than playing tug and outing a tug.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

codmaster said:


> What about your wife/husband/kids? Are you saying that all Sch dogs are one person dogs?
> 
> If that is the case, then no thank you for me.
> 
> i had never heard that before about Sch - I had heard that one does all they can to build the dogs confidence but not the one person only handling.


To be honest I haven't yet seen more than a few dogs that will do Schutzhund the same way for more than one person. The Schutzhund aspect of the dog's life is typically controlled by one person, yes. Otherwise it is confusing and unfair to the dog. Schutzhund is not like basic obedience where once a dog knows sit pretty much anyone can say sit. There has to be a very strong bong, a working relationship, a mutual respect between dog and handler. You just can't get that at the same level with two or more people and I don't see how that would come as any surprise. It's like having champion pairs ice skaters being expected to perform at the same caliber regardless of who they are paired with on any given day. No way.



> When would you start manners for a potential Sch dog? I thought that obedience was a big part of Sch?
> 
> Would you teach a dog that it is ok to bite people without teaching the obedience to help control the dog first (or at the same time)?


I'm not one of those that let's a "Schutzhund dog" get away with everything just because. I do have high expectations for my dogs as far as manners and that includes ALL my dogs, maybe my SchH dogs are held to an even higher standard because they've had more training and impulse control overall. The difference is that when the dog is young it's more about controlling the environment and setting the dog up for success than correction the dog and squashing the drive. My SchH dog was never allowed to get mouthy on me or treat me like a doormat. He is not allowed to jump on house guests or bite at their clothes for fun. If he had exhibited these behaviors as a puppy, my solution would be exercise him hard before guests come over and then give him a big reward bone in his crate rather than allow him to jump on people or yell at him for doing it. If he mouths at me, I redirect him to a toy and play a game rather than slap his face.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

You have gotten some good advice, just want to jump in on a couple points.
- I understand your concern about the dogs being robots. When you see dogs in a SchH trial, what they do is so amazing. It is difficult to picture them hanging out with their owners at home. I have been training with Bison just over a year now, and even though he is much more obedient at home, he is still the same big goofy boy has always been.
- I think the differences in training between a "pet" and a SchH prospect really depends on what your goals are. My dogs will always be pets first and SchH competitors second. My philosophy for training is a bit different than Wayne's in that I feel that a well bred GSD does not have to be allowed to be a wild man to be able to be involved in SchH. For example, if he has the nerve to bite, me training him to not put teeth on people at home isn't going to stop him from biting on the field. Me teaching him not to jump up on people at home isn't going to prevent him from jumping over jumps. Dogs are very situational in their training. They can compartmentalize to a great extent what happens on the field and what happens at home. I think it is more important the methods that you use to teach them those things and that is where your SchH club can help you make better training choices.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Along with what Amy posted, the temperament and lines of the dog are huge in what they are showing on the field. Thats why my two females couldn't do it...I had to find a pup that will be biddable and confident enough to go forth with the whole picture.
Now it is up to me to let him shine and excel in what he was bred to do! I don't want to fail him.


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

From Nike Sentry Dogs(sorry for the all caps, but it's in the original page):



> SENTRY DOGS, AS WELL AS THEIR M.P. DOG HANDLERS, WERE ASSIGNED TO ALL NIKE HERCULES SITES. THE DOGS WERE USED TO PATROL THE AREA BETWEEN THE LAUNCHER AREA FENCE AND THE EXCLUSION AREA (LAUNCHING AREA) FENCE. THE DOGS WERE PRIMARILY UTILIZED AT NIGHT TO AUGMENT THE SECURITY OF THE SITE. ON AVERAGE, THERE WERE FOUR DOGS PER SITE, ALTHOUGH SITES OVERSEAS TENDED TO HAVE MORE. A DOG WAS ASSIGNED TO ONE HANDLER WHO HAD TO CARE FOR THE DOG IN ADDITION TO PATROLLING WITH IT. THE DOGS WERE PURPOSELY TRAINED TO BE OVERLY AGGRESSIVE AND WERE BASICALLY FRIENDLY TO THEIR HANDLER AND NO ONE ELSE. FOR EXAMPLE, DOGS TRAINED FOR POLICE WORK TODAY LIVE WITH THEIR OFFICER/HANDLER AND ARE BASICALLY FRIENDLY UNTIL COMMANDED TO DO OTHERWISE. SENTRY DOGS WERE NOT THIS WAY. YOU DIDN'T WANT TO GET CLOSE TO ONE OF THESE DOGS. ON OCCASION A DOG WOULD GET LOOSE FROM ITS PEN. WHEN THIS HAPPENED YOU WOULD SEE SOLDIERS SCRAMBLE TO GET TO A SAFE PLACE BECAUSE THAT DOG WOULD ATTACK THEM. IN MOST CASES, WHEN A DOG HANDLER WAS TRANSFERRED HIS DOG WOULD GO WITH HIM. WHEN A DOG HANDLER LEFT THE SERVICE AN ATTEMPT WAS MADE TO INTRODUCE A NEW HANDLER TO THE DOG. IN SOME CASES THE DOG WOULD NOT ACCEPT A NEW HANDLER AND HAD TO BE PUT DOWN. DOGS WOULD BE PUT DOWN WHEN THEY WERE TOO OLD TO WORK


Schutzhund will NOT turn your dog into a sentry dog, thank goodness! It will also NOT turn your dog into a kill-crazy monster, as written about in one of Tom Clancy's books (I can't remember which one, one of the Rainbow Six books I think).

As for using a clicker, about 30% of the handlers I saw in practice at the 2008 WUSV Championship in Ft. Mitchell, Ky were using clickers.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Liesje said:


> To be honest I haven't yet seen more than a few dogs that will do Schutzhund the same way for more than one person. The Schutzhund aspect of the dog's life is typically controlled by one person, yes. Otherwise it is confusing and unfair to the dog. Schutzhund is not like basic obedience where once a dog knows sit pretty much anyone can say sit. There has to be a very strong bong, a working relationship, a mutual respect between dog and handler. You just can't get that at the same level with two or more people and I don't see how that would come as any surprise. It's like having champion pairs ice skaters being expected to perform at the same caliber regardless of who they are paired with on any given day. No way.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not one of those that let's a "Schutzhund dog" get away with everything just because. I do have high expectations for my dogs as far as manners and that includes ALL my dogs, maybe my SchH dogs are held to an even higher standard because they've had more training and impulse control overall. The difference is that when the dog is young it's more about controlling the environment and setting the dog up for success than correction the dog and squashing the drive. My SchH dog was never allowed to get mouthy on me or treat me like a doormat. He is not allowed to jump on house guests or bite at their clothes for fun. If he had exhibited these behaviors as a puppy, my solution would be exercise him hard before guests come over and then give him a big reward bone in his crate rather than allow him to jump on people or yell at him for doing it. If he mouths at me, I redirect him to a toy and play a game rather than slap his face.


I agree with most of this. My DH and I split our dogs...does that mean that they are absolutely uncontrollable for me if I wanted to take one of his for a walk in the neighborhood?? No. However I will not use his formal commands except in dire emergency  I will use their house words instead. I do not ask his dogs to sit or down because I don't need to. They know come, and walk, and off, and crate, and that pretty covers everything I need for us to get along. The reason for this is that for several months (like 8), my puppy does no obedience without reward. And the way I want my dog to do formal commands is specific. In the beginning obedience should be done in drive, so that pretty happy obedience becomes a habit. You want to avoid that average pet training you see with the owner telling the dog to SIT, SIT, SIT...and finally the dog sits. Formal obedience should be FAST and you have to set it up so that your dog learns to want to be fast and correct. 

As you train you learn that your dog does not listen to words alone. It responds to body language, tone, environment, and a dozen other cues that you don't even know you give. 2 people do not give the same cues so it's difficult on a beginning dog to work with more than 1 person. Once the dog is older, it can generally transfer much better. Our older dogs would go off with anyone with a treat or a ball and work. As pretty as they do for their handler? No. But still good. 

I also do not think SchH dogs need to get away with murder. I have boundaries...but I make sure that my boundaries are NOT counterproductive to what I want from my dog. I want my dog to make body contact with people and not be afraid to plow into them...So I can expect to be jumped on and pushed around a little by my puppy. When he gets older and knows Sit...well then I can ask him to do that instead...but I never want him to have the idea in his head that making physical contact with people is bad. Likewise for the mouthing. Using his mouth with a full hard grip is an admirable quality in a SchH pup. He cannot have a negative association with using his mouth, but I have to channel it to toys. This is a process that takes time. In the meantime I will bleed. This also applies to leash manners. My dog needs to know that it is OK to pull against a collar or a harness because he's going to have to do it in bite work. Can I start teaching him leash manners right away?? Sure. By rewarding him next to me. But what I cannot do is start popping him on the collar to get him to stay with me or using aversive that "stop the pulling". Also don't want to inhibit the dog's instinct to chase. He wants to run down the kids, the cat, the other small dog?? Teach the kids to not run. Manage the situation so that he's never able to give chase, or wait to introduce those situations into his world once he's older and has the self control and obedience to understand that this is not the time or place. 

So while I agree that some boundaries are necessary, I think you can see that the initial training of a SchH prospect (at least for me) is not really about livability- all that comes later. 

To my mind SchH puppies are terrible house pets. But SchH dogs are the absolute BEST.  It's just getting there.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Liesje said:


> The difference is that when the dog is young it's more about controlling the environment and setting the dog up for success than correction the dog and squashing the drive. My SchH dog was never allowed to get mouthy on me or treat me like a doormat. He is not allowed to jump on house guests or bite at their clothes for fun. If he had exhibited these behaviors as a puppy, my solution would be exercise him hard before guests come over and then give him a big reward bone in his crate rather than allow him to jump on people or yell at him for doing it. If he mouths at me, I redirect him to a toy and play a game rather than slap his face.


Excellent post. When I say I wouldn't scold for this or that, don't interpret that as an out of control animal. As an example, to prevent jumping on guests, I sit or down the dog when she greets someone. If she breaks the sit or down, then she is corrected for that, but not for jumping or meeting new people. A subtle but significant difference, especially to the dog.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Jason L said:


> No, you mark it with a clicker and reward it with a tug ... :laugh:


I always get a kick out of your videos. Ike Productions!


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

JKlatsky said:


> To my mind SchH puppies are terrible house pets. But SchH dogs are the absolute BEST.  It's just getting there.


That is a million dollar quote, or maybe like the MasterCard commercials....priceless.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I don't know much about working with a puppy being raised to do Schutzhund. Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences and knowledge. Really interesting stuff.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

W.Oliver said:


> Excellent post. When I say I wouldn't scold for this or that, don't interpret that as an out of control animal. As an example, to prevent jumping on guests, I sit or down the dog when she greets someone. If she breaks the sit or down, then she is corrected for that, but not for jumping or meeting new people. A subtle but significant difference, especially to the dog.


Maybe we don't think that differently after all. That is what I meant by the training method may differ, but you don't have to let them get away with everything. I very rarely TEACH anything by correcting/scolding/or negative reinforcement. I think that is why SchH was an easy switch for us. I taught Bison to not bite by redirecting and making biting the toy really fun, more fun than biting me. The only negative consequence was that if he persisted in biting after redirecting then I ended the play time. Eventually he learned discipline in the bite and that it is fun when you bite the right thing. In obedience classes that I attended they recommended everything from yipping to holding their mouth shut. The negative associations teach plain biting=bad and I can see how that could create an issue.

I think that the methods that create a negative association with something that you will have to use later is more the issue than training them not to bite, jump, pull... But that is just a newbie opinion, take it for what it is worth.


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