# Breeding OFA fair dogs



## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

is it appropriate/acceptable for a breeder to breed OFA fair hip dogs? Is it a risky proposition?


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Fair is passing.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I recognize its passing, so is getting a "D" in school. Doesn't mean you should be happy with it.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Why wouldn't it be? It's passing. However, hip scores are very complicated and the entire pedigree should be taken into advantage. I would be very leery about getting a dog from OFA fair parents that had dogs in the pedigree dominated by bad scores and bad hip producers simple because even an "excellent" score with a plethora of horrible hips in every relative is playing with fire. But certainly a fair rating with strong hips in the pedigree is nothing to be concerned with.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

D wasn't passing in MY school. And it's a bad analogy either way. You're talking genetics versus how well you study. Not even comparable.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The differences between Excellent and Good are negligable...the differences between Good and Fair are often negligable... Fair can be a slight flat spot on a tight femoral head...Good can be a micromillimeter short in the neck of teh head....

Nothing wrong with FAIR!!! Again, look at the whole pedigree...but I have used a FN/Fair dog and got several OFA Goods and eyeballed "nothing wrongs".....and that OFA Fair produced far more OFA Goods than Fairs or Fails.....Csabre, OFA Good from that Fair, produced OFA Good (both prelim and at 2 so far). Other progeny of the Fair (Xito) have produced many OFA Goods....

I also used an FCI "B" which most people equate to FN/Fair - but without OFAs hard to say if she would be a Good or a Fair....got a ton of OFA Goods, 2 OFA Excellents and one mild....also a couple of 'a' normals...and Alice, FN produced OFA Excellent, who has produced a few OFA Goods....

Fair is NOT DYSPLASTIC!!! It is fine for breeding as long as the pedigree is overall solid!

Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wonder if an OFA fair dog was submitted again, would outcome be the same, depending on who is doing the grading?
I've heard of two recently that came back as excellent...supposedly only 4% of GSD's go excellent.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Fair rating is borderline, being borderline is risky. Not sure how OFA ratings are determined, but if it is subjective (looking at x-rays and assigning a rating), then borderline ratings could be pass or fail depending on who is looking at them. If that is the case, and not being a gambling man, wanting to stack the odds in the favor of not have HD problems with my litters, I would breed "good" or better ratings. I realize you have to look at the history of litters and what not, and also that a breeding consisting of excellent parents could throw pups that are HD positive....the reverse is true too. If you bred dogs with failing ratings, you could end up with a puppy that has decent hips. But, given all the risk, I say you stack the odds in your favor. Of course, I'm not a breeder nor am I trying to point fingers on any breeder....just some thoughts on the subject and hoping to hear some divers opinions. 

I guess if the OFA fair dog brings something to the breeding that is so rare and you can't find some other dog with better hips that has that quality you are looking for, then I suppose its ok to breed it. But given the huge numbers of quality dogs out there, how often is it that you can't find a dog that has the quality you want and has better hips? 

Again, just a few questions....not directed at anyone in particular.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Dante is excellent out of two fair dogs - litter mate is moderate (and the really sad thing has actually been bred, not sure if on purpose or accidental) and a half sibling that is moderate. Of course since so few of the dogs are listed on OFA....
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Off course if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have Dante


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Fair isn't borderline -- it is passing. There is a "borderline" rating as well. You are better off with the Fair from a good background than an Excellent from a poor or unknown background.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

eddie1976E said:


> Fair rating is borderline, being borderline is risky. Not sure how OFA ratings are determined, but if it is subjective (looking at x-rays and assigning a rating), then borderline ratings could be pass or fail depending on who is looking at them. If that is the case, and not being a gambling man, wanting to stack the odds in the favor of not have HD problems with my litters, I would breed "good" or better ratings. I realize you have to look at the history of litters and what not, and also that a breeding consisting of excellent parents could throw pups that are HD positive....the reverse is true too. If you bred dogs with failing ratings, you could end up with a puppy that has decent hips. But, given all the risk, I say you stack the odds in your favor. Of course, I'm not a breeder nor am I trying to point fingers on any breeder....just some thoughts on the subject and hoping to hear some divers opinions.
> 
> I guess if the OFA fair dog brings something to the breeding that is so rare and you can't find some other dog with better hips that has that quality you are looking for, then I suppose its ok to breed it. But given the huge numbers of quality dogs out there, how often is it that you can't find a dog that has the quality you want and has better hips?
> 
> Again, just a few questions....not directed at anyone in particular.


 
I totally ABSOLUTELY disagree with this!!!!

FAIR IS NOT HD. 

I have bred Fair/FN/B hipped dogs...and produced almost all Goods. I have seen as many HD dogs out out of Goods as out of Fairs!!!! 

I would not breed to a dog linebred/backmassed on an NZ dog...but that is not breeding to a dog who does NOT have HD!!!!!

Lee


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I looked int to the OFA site and found that there are 4 ratings below fair...Fair is in the top 3 of the ratings so I was mistaking when I thought it as on the low end of the scale. Thanks


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

eddie1976E said:


> I looked int to the OFA site and found that there are 4 ratings below fair...Fair is in the top 3 of the ratings so I was mistaking when I thought it as on the low end of the scale. Thanks


lol...love how you made some declaration about the ONLY types of dogs people should be breeding and you didn't even know what all the hip ratings were!

But kudos for actually going and looking it up...albeit a little late. :crazy:

Sorta things like this is what gets crazy ideas in peoples' heads in the first place.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I think it depends on the rest of the pedigree... not just the two dogs being bred.

If you've got a whole pedigree of good hips than I wouldn't see a problem with it.

If you've got a pedigree full of so-so to HD hips, but the two dogs being bred have OFA fair hips, than I wouldn't be ok with it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There is really only one reason to have a rating system. And that is to determine whether the hips are cause to disclude a dog from breeding. That is the whole focus of the OFA, to verify that a dog does not have a genetic problem that they would likely pass on down the line. It is not perfect, but it is something. They issue a certificate for fair. It is not dysplastic or close to being dysplastic. They are certifying that at the time of the x-ray, this dog is free from hip dysplasia. A fair rating gets a certificate. 

It is not playing with fire it is breeding a dog without hip dysplasia. Can the dog produce hip dysplasia? Certainly. So can two OFA Good parents. So can an OFA excellent. Further rating the non-passing hip, might give you some idea as to what your are facing down the road. But severe or chronic, may or may not show outward symptoms, while mild might cause limping. Some dog learn to adjust so as to manage without outward symptoms. 

If a breeder breeds to certified animals together, and they produce several with severe hip dysplasia, that gives the breeder information about that pairing. This is really a tool for breeders. Breeding a certified dog is fine, as long as you are looking at more than just the breeding dog.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Fair being still passing...I had a "Fair" dog that came out of a Fair/Good mating,,never ever had a hip problem and lived until almost 14..this dog would jump my 6 foot fence to get to me in the front yard

I have a "good" rating out of a fair/good mating as well. 

For me, Fair isn't a big deal it's the overall dog I'm considering and who the breeding pair are..


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Breeders should not breed on hip scores alone ...

OFA is not a very accurate rating system and is full of flaws. *IF* one was to determine breeding pairs based on hip ratings I would much rather see a PennHip score than an OFA rating. But I would never base a breeding solely on hip scores.


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