# Athena's Home Trainer experience



## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

OK so for those who have read of Athena's dog aggression here is our new plan.I hope to keep you all updated in hope of helping out others as we go along.To sum up her problem she hates other dogs except her Lexi.I took her to one trainer who wanted to do a board and train for 3 weeks.I was OK with it till I left him worried.His only method of evaluation was to put her in front of a mirror and watch her flip out and tell me she was a bad case.NO sh*t..So for $1200.00 I could leave her and he would train her, then me.He neglected to elaborate on his methods other than constant interaction with other dogs and would work on advanced obedience.Ok fine what does your facility look like?Oh it's muddy so when you bring her back I'll show you.UH NO.So I came home and got on here to ask my friends,they all said NO WAY.I contacted another trainer up here, he said no way.I set up an appointment with him.Well today we met and I like his approach I think.First we have to keep her away from dogs till next visit in 2 weeks.Yuck but I can do it.That means no walks on our road,no playing freely outside unless I can get the neighbor to put her dogs in,which I nicely hinted to her in an email.We need to do focusing work and reinforce and tweek basic obedience.The main exercise she gets is good but of course she needs a job,he suggested scent tracking.I also have to get a Kong and possibly a food cube thing to exercise her brain and a food pouch for the focus work.She also has to work for her food in AM and PM and if she doesn't do what I ask after 30 sec I have to pick it up and wait till next feeding.That will kill me because after a week of no good food and now she is eating all I give her, I don't want to hold back food.So to establish pack order I have to make them stay off the couches and I have to pick up there toys and hand out what I want them to play with.Also because she has a lot of anxiety he doesn't want her barking and jumping at the door when someone knocks so we have to work on a different command for her to do if she hears a knock.His example was to have her sit when she hears a knock.When we go out instead of always having her sit and stay till I release he wants me to mix it up and make her down and stay.He gave me a few papers with Stress Indicators to watch for.As the 2 weeks go on we should start to see a more relaxed,less stressed dog.I guess it boils down to not having the pack order established yet so she is not knowing which way to go.Hopefully her stomach issues will lessen as we get the pack order established.That's all I can think of right now.Any questions about this bring them on.Thanks for listening and I hope I can help others as we go through this process.Wish us luck.

Moderators I hope I placed this in the correct forum.I wasn't sure if it would fit here or in the how to train section.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Allie I agree with the pack order the food thing confuses me
let me think about it. 
I am glad you enjoyed your first training session


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

OK, I like the trainer you will be working with and so glad you walked away from the first trainer.

Digestive issues maybe related to stress, so if you can lower the stress hopefully you will see an improvment in the digestive issues.

I like that this trainer gave you homework to do. 

Ask you neighbor if she could be a help to you while you are working with a trainer to help Athena get over her problems by having maybe a schedule for a little while when your dog can be out and when her's can be out. Asking for her help will hopefully get you a better response than some thing more demanding.

Val


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Dawn,
The food thing is basically she ahs to work to get fed.She has to sit or down what ever command I give and if she doesn't do it w/in 30 sec she looses.I emailed Ron to see what he said about what I learned today.I think I for got the food thing but I have been told that by many that they need to work for it to get it.I was just too lazy to enforce it.

Val,
I will discuss it with my neighbor.If she is home she will most likely be fine with it or she'll tell me to put them in when I want to play with Athena.She works all day so I'm sure I can just put them in the house during the week for an hour or so.It will be a pain, but if it help I'm there for it.I do have a pen to play in but playing ball won't be fun in a 20X20 pen.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Allie I understand that I am concerned cause what she has been going through that is all.
I agree with Val and talking to you neighbor about setting up a schedule.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Ok I understand your not understanding now.I will just make her sit and stay till I tell her OK.I try to do that anyway but sometimes I just need to feed her and move on to something else.Hopefully once we get her less stressed she will not be having these stomach issues.I'll talk to her,I'm sure I can put then inside for an hour or so a day to play ball outside.I'll start hiding things in the pen to make her find too.I just have to get some stuff.Any ideas anyone?


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## VectorSketcher (Jul 20, 2008)

I will definitely be watching your posts as you progress, my pup has the same issues your going through. Thanks for posting!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Michelle,
How old is he?You may not want to do group obedience classes then.What is he doing and when?Has he always been this way or is it new?You might be better off checking out a private trainer depending on your answers to these questions.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I need ideas for things to hide in her pen to entertain her till I figure out where we can go for walks w/o dogs.One thing the neighbor thought up was if we could put a tarp on the side of the pen to cover her dogs.I'll have to run that by Hubby and the Trainer.
I just bought them Kongs and the filling and training treats.The store in town didn't have the treat bag I need.I'll rig something up till I get one.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

The everlasting treat ball is great if Athena loves food. I usually put kibble in mine and I have heard of people putting a large portion of their dog's meal in it.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Get some plastic bowls or 1/2 gal plastic Ice Cream Pails, take treats and hide under the bowl. Hide the kong or treat ball under a pail.

You can do all kinds of things. Have her on a leash and walk her around the bowl/pail and work on your leave it and focus work. Do figure 8 work, do sit/stay work. 

Val


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## twonhshepherds (Feb 1, 2006)

This is going to be a little scattered as that is what my brain is like!! I play a find it game with kibble. Get the dogs attention. Say"find it" toss the treat or food(this works great in grass cuz they have to search to find it). When the dog returns to you give her another treat then say find it toss in another direction. and repeat. My dogs love this game. It expends energy and adds to their attention to you. I also work on downs from a distance with this game. If you have a strongish down, as the dog returns to you, use your cue and down them..then toss another treat.
I use a clicker for some other exercises with reactive dogs, but I don't know if you are interested in that approach. With my Max, when he was young, there was nothing in his life for free!!! He worked for his meals...and loved it.
Good luck, keep us posted. I have a reactive dog, and am part of a reactive dog group and just started Control Unleashed classes. It is a journey but once you find what works for YOU AND YOUR DOG, then the progress is so fast!! I may be only assuming that Athena is reactive. If I'm wrong, I apologize. I've been so busy with training and classes that I've been out of the loop.


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## twonhshepherds (Feb 1, 2006)

For what it's worth, I agree totally with the trainer that you'll be working with on one point. Athena should stay away from any circumstance where she can practise her reactve behavior when she sees other dogs. Dogs learn by repetition. We all know that, but it's easy to forget that they can learn the "bad" stuff really fast, if they get to practise it. For what it's worth...


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Sounds like you got a good trainer there.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

UConnGSD,
Is theeverlasting treat ball one you can buy at Petco or is it through a catalog order?He mentioned the training cube,I think it was called.

twonhshepherds,
That's what the trainer was basically saying.We have taught her to behave this way due to getting the wrong advice.I should have stopped the obedience classes right away and gone the private route but I had most people telling me to keep going to get her use to them.I think the away period will maybe get some of the bad experiences out of her and with better focusing skills and a calmer demeanor we can approach dogs in a more positive way.Athena is the type of dog that has always needed soft correcting and we weren't like that.We didn't hurt her but we were more harsh then we should have had.Do you know what I mean?Can you define reactive for me?I guess she is but I may not be correct in the term.Where do you do this control unleashed classes?I have heard of it but didn't think there were any in NH.
Thanks for all the activity suggestions.We will be trying them out.Also the reactive dog group where would I find that?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Allie, this trainer sounds like he will be good. I totally agree with most of what he says - expect for the food becuase she's had this recent trouble with her tummy. Personally, I would make her sit before you give her meals then let her eat in peace - least until she gets better.

Exercise is going to be tough but do able - can you call the neighbor before you're ready to go out, say you're going to be outside with Athena for a little while and could she bring her dog in? Unless the neighbor is a raving loonie, she'll be helpful becuase she won't want any more trouble down the road between Athena and her dog. 

Oh and in addition to what your trainer said about no dogs on the couch, no dogs on the bed etc, add no dogs walked before you through a doorway, they have to sit at the back door before you let them go out. 

Raising a GSD puppy isn't easy but it's rewarding in the end. The more you work with her, the closer the bond with her will be. They love the work.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Jenn,
I'm going to make her sit and stay for her food and I do my best to go out before them.I've been told all this but just didn't do it all the time.The things you know for the next time around.......The neighbor has already said that, that will be a good excuse to take her dogs for a ride or something on the weekends.Once I talk to her more she'll probably let me put them in the house during the week for an hour or so to exercise Athena.I take care of her dogs when she goes away so I have access to her house and know her dogs.I don't know what it is about these **** dogs but with all the things I have encountered with Athena,stomach issues and aggression I am looking forward to hopefully next year if all goes right getting another one.Like someone said there like potato chips, you can't have just one.......


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Sounds like your neighbor will be very supportive, excellent. Shepherds aren't easy to raise but Athena will do just fine becuase you're getting on track with her young. Most important thing is consistence - if you always make her sit before she goes out, she'll do it automatically. If she tries to get through the doorway - any doorway - before you, put your knee out to the side to block her. She'll stop soon... there's a long list of things you can do to establish dominance without being harsh.

In my case, the 4 GSDs before him never had the issues Mien Luther had - he was an over the top nutcase, 9.5 on the volhard scale, missed his calling as a junk yard dog. I learned a lot from training him and every dog since has been better for it. Especially Miss Moon, she's the type who'd run my life if I hadn't laid down the law.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I think I'm going to start a journal of how to do it right the 2nd time around.I have learned so much in the 9 months I have been an owner but like with kids I wouldn't trade it for anything,well, the kids maybe for a million or two.


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## UConnGSD (May 19, 2008)

AllieG, there are 2 different types: the treat ball and the fun ball. Both are good and I think you can put kibble in both of them. Wolfie has the latter. You can get them at Orvis. If not, Amazon sells them too. I haven't seen them at Petco or Petsmart yet.
http://www.amazon.com/StarMark-TCEFBL-Everlasting-Ball-Large/dp/B0009YHTYC
http://www.amazon.com/StarMark-TCETBL-Everlasting-Treat-Large/dp/B0012V1G0Y


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Here in Washington state we have the 2nd one at PetSmart I have never tried it, but it looks like it would be good.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

So today we worked on some basic commands and focusing.I set up a make shift jump thing that by the end of the day I got Athena to jump over at about 6 inches high.Lexi first plowed the pole over instead of jumping or going under.We also investigated lots of scents in the woods behind the house and she got her feet wet in the little stream.I guess we will be doing little hikes out back till I figure out a place to walk her.I just hope Mr & Mrs Bear are nice and full or have moved on.I can handle running across a dear or moose, but the bears and coyotes scare the crap out of me.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Hey Allie sounds good!
once you continue to train her you have een more fun but have to do it all the time.

As for getting another one I would wait until she is at least 3 (adult) because you'll have to start all over with a new puppy training. B is going to be four and I think we are waiting another year to get another.


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## twonhshepherds (Feb 1, 2006)

That is a terrific idea...the journal. 
My idea of what is a reactive dog...well, I've had 2. Scared, smart, soft. And the fear and discomfort is expressed by outbursts that look like aggression. It is the dogs way of saying..leave me alone, I'm not comfortable or happy.Our little reactive dog group consists of 5 women. We all met, some where or other, trying to help our dogs. And these are dogs that had tons of socialization...Reactivity rears it's ugly head at different times in a dogs life...in my experience,as early as 5 months and sometimes not until 18 months..
We've tried everything we could find.Mostly it's the Control Unleashed protocol and the Click to Calm protocol that has helped the most. It is nice to be in a group where we respect and understand our dogs behavior.

I want to say that some of the most accomplished trainers get that way because they end up with a reactive dog... and the search and the knowledge that search bestows on us is invaluable.The most important thing for us, is to stay sub threshold..

I go to Franklin, Mass. for a Controlled Unleashed class...4 hours round trip, but an amazing teacher. Hopefully, there will be more CU classes taught in NH soon. Theres a place in Brattleboro,VT that has classes. I don't know the instructor. A key element..IMHO


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

OK,Yes than that describes Athena.She is a sweetheart but you put a dog other than Lexi into the picture and she looks like she could eat you.All because I used the wrong method in the beginning.She was socialized and did well with dogs all summer than one day she just changed her mind on them.I may have asked before but where in NH are you located?PM me if you like.I am interested in any group I can find to help me out with this.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Oh, we were able to run free for around 20 minutes today.The neighbor took her dogs to the dump so she gave me the heads up to play outside.We also put a tarp at the end of the pen so she can't see the neighbors dogs in there pen.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Happy Easter.We were able to go to a park today.Not sure what to make of it but she was throwing a fit when she got out of the truck.She was barking and gruffing.No one else was around, we parked off where no one else was and we walked out about a mile on a closed road.I think she liked it but was confused on her barking when we arrived.It seems like everything she does now, I analyze to see if it is stress or just dog behavior.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think dogs especially the young ones, go thru not just fear periods, but sometimes just plain weird periods)

For instance,,masi has all of a sudden decided her reflection in the fireplace glass was something to 'woof' at ,,now "where did that come from?" LOL...My husband says 'she sees ghosts' ...


Good luck with the training,i look forward to reading updates ))


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

So here is the outline of what I am to be doing for the next 2 weeks.I guess I should have gotten it Fri but it was lost in cyberspace.I'm glad I asked him today about it.
“Athena” Gagnon.
Session Outline:
1) Communication. Read and re-read the handouts on stress signals and begin
modifying your approach to Athena. Possible changes may include avoiding
prolonged eye contact, changing the tone of your voice, changing the command
name if itʼs clear that even the name is causing stress.
2) Use body blocking to stop potentially troublesome situations between Athena and
Lexi. A body block is simply walking between the two of them and saying nothing.
3) Work on her basic obedience skills without using force. The goal here it have her
enjoy working.
4) Practice the attention exercised frequently. This is critical to future elements of the
program.
5) Avoid exposing Athena to other dogs until after our next session. As it stands, she is
likely on guard anytime she is out of the house. We want to re-establish a calm and
enjoyable feeling with her walks. By controlling the location, you are also
demonstrating one element of control with her.
6) Increase her mental exercises. IQube, Buster Cube, Kong filled with treats, hide and
seek, tracking, etc. The more she thinks, the more her confidence will increase.
7) The couch should be off limits to both dogs.
8) Begin teaching alternate behaviors for common happenings. For example: going to a
spot and sitting when hearing a knock at the door. Laying down instantly when
hearing the clanking of a food bowl. Sit-Staying when hearing a car door close, etc.
This covers the information we discussed in the first session; let me know as you
progress, if you have any questions.

If anyone following us are interested in the signals page he is talking about I will post it later.I found it online for another person.
I might go to Concord tomorrow to look at the other toys he is talking about.I can't find them in town. 
We did get another hike in today out back.She sure does use her nose on the hikes.I can only imagine what she is smelling...Lions,Tiger,Bears,oh my,Deer,Bunnies ,Coyotes,Turkeys and Moose.


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## twonhshepherds (Feb 1, 2006)

That sounds like a very thoughtful, well planned approach to helping Athena.Kudos to you for finding this trainer.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I hope to get more input from others.I have to get her away from Lexi to do the exercises because Lexi is a treat hog and obnoxious and won't shut up if we do it with her around.I tried outside and Lexi barks at everything so I couldn't get Athena to concentrate.I know she needs the distractions but I don't think right now is the time.


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## Prize (Feb 5, 2009)

"If anyone following us are interested in the signals page he is talking about I will post it later."
I am








It sounds like you found an awesome trainer. Hope this works out for you! Def. sounds like it will.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Here is the stress indicator sheet.

Stress Indicators
When one or more of the following behaviors/body postures is observed in the dog, it often
indicates stress. The context of the behavior is an important clue to whether the behavior is
stress-related or due to another stimulus. When looking at stress signals, remember that stresslike
behavior can also be indicative of other concerns such as a medical problem or it may be a
learned behavior. In some instances the indicator may simply be a breed-specific quality. (For
example, whippets have a naturally low tail carriage.)

Stress is dynamic. It changes from moment to moment and within each new situation. Levels of
stress can vary dramatically from dog to dog and situation to situation. Not all stress is counterproductive
however. Small amounts of stress can enhance awareness and performance.

Rapid shallow or deep forceful panting: Panting is normal for dogs that have been exercising
or are hot. So-called “normal” panting is done with deeper respirations with a relaxed tongue.
When a stressed dog pants, the lips will be pulled back in a wide grin, causing furrows in the
skin under the eyes and on the forehead.

Lack of focus or attention: If your dog fails to respond to known cues, he may simply be
distracted by a stimulus such as a squirrel. He may also be stressed. When stressed, the dog is
not ignoring you; he simply cannot respond to you. He may hear you perfectly well, but his
mind is unable to process the information. (Sometimes we find ourselves so stressed that even
the simplest task is impossible for us to do!)

Avoidance: The dog may turn away, shut down or run and dodge from us.

Sweaty paws: Dogs get sweaty paws when stressed in the same manner that people get sweaty
palms. This reaction is often visible on hardwood floors or metal tables at the vet.

Yawning: Yawning is one of the most common signs of stress. Stress-related yawns will be
more intense than “sleepy” yawns. The dog may be in an excited vs. relaxed state when
yawning.

Increase frequency of urination or defecation: A stressed body will try to force fluids out of
the system. Some “house training” issues owners report are stress related. Inappropriate
spontaneous voiding is an indicator of extreme stress.

Vomiting & diarrhea: The digestive system is often the first system to react to stress.

Drooling: Usually indicates stress in the absence of a mouth injury or in anticipation of food.

Stretching: Stretching is a way to relax the muscles that tense from stress. This type of
stretching is not related to sleeping or from staying in one position for a long period of time.

Shaking: You may see a full body shake when the dog is not wet.

Confusion: Strange, abnormal or confused behavior can be the result of stress. Exercise
caution when interpreting this behavior as it can also indicate a medical problem like a seizure
or diabetic emergency.

Self-mutilation: Tail chewing, paw licking and chewing or sucking on the flank may be signs
of stress, although the behaviors may have medical origins.
Excessive grooming: A dog that constantly is licking himself is showing signs of stress.
Common sites for excessively licking are paws, legs, flanks and genital areas.

Sleeping excessively: Every dog has a different energy level so excessive sleeping may be
difficult to recognize. This is a sign of chronic stress, shutting down and seratonin depletion.

Immune system disorder: Stress lowers the immune system response to diseases and allergies.

Excessive thirst: Increased drinking without a medical or exercise-related cause. This could be
a sign of redirected frustration or an obsessive disorder.

Stiffness: Tension can create stiff gait and tail movement.

Shivering: Many dogs will shiver when under stress. If the dog is not cold, consider stress as a
cause.

Whining: Due to anxiety or excitability.

Low body carriage: Dogs that move low to the ground on tiptoe are often exhibiting stress.

Mouthiness: Mouthiness may range from gentle mouthing to snapping or biting.

Hyperactivity: Stress may trigger a defense mechanism that can look frantic. Often this is
interpreted as the dog defying the owner or “fooling around”. The dog will eventually shut
down when his system is drained.


Displacement Behaviors: (common responses that can be misinterpreted)
• Licking nose
• Yawning
• Sniffing the ground
• Scratching
• Shaking
• Blinking
• Lip smack
• Aggression


Calming / Appeasement Signals: Dogs use calming signals with each other to defuse a
stressful situation. These appeasement signals DO have a communicative function to reduce the
arousal level of the other dog or calm the dog down.
• Turning the head away or averting the eyes
• Turning completely away
• Sniffing at the ground (very common)
• Quick (often lizard like) licking of the lips
• Freezing in place
• Moving excruciatingly slowly
• Sitting or laying down
• Play bow position
• Yawning


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

This is the body posture sheet from the ASPCA.
http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/kids-and-pets/caninebody_language.pdf
I hope this help some dogs and owners.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I thought I would give an update on our training.We met again last week and I was waiting for the outline before posting but he has come down with an illness and I will hopefully get it today but not positive.
So we have to continue the focus exercises and we can be outside now using the neighbors dogs to do the exercise.HE also saw we were having a hard time with heeling so he showed another way to do it.His way is less stressful I believe.You aren't constantly correcting,when she gets ahead you stop and walk backwards till she catches up and start over.I think she is catching on.I find her looking to me and slowing when she notices she is a tad bit ahead.I have been treating her whenever she does this on our walks.I managed to stand 20ft,(I'm not good at estimating feet) from the neighbors dogs with out any reaction.
The cats are another story,I think that will always be a battle till she gets to old to care.
I bought her the treat cube he mentioned and at first we had a problem,she was scared of it.I put soft treats in it and the next day she was all set with hard kibble being in it.She loves to play with it now.
So that's it for now we will meet again in a few weeks.When I get the outline I'll post it if I forgot to add anything.I think we have found her real stomach issues and are treating her for an intestinal infection.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

AllieG- Thank you so much for posting that link!! It will indeed help me to read my boy better


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

No problem.I hope I can help anyone having problems.


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## MikeB06 (Mar 12, 2006)

Allie,
So on this second meeting with the trainer did he teach or tell you what do you do when your dog reacts to another dog or animal?


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

He wants us to not have her reach a reaction point.That is what the focus work is about.I haven't thought to ask what to do, in the beginning we were to just pack up and come home.I guess I'll be addressing that problem.The obedience trainer in the 6 week class told me to put her in a down till I got her under control.
Are you an experienced trainer?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Allie, what worked for me for heeling was teaching 'heel' when the dog goes next to you and 'go ahead' when you allow your dog go forward. It really makes a difference because your dog knows that he will be allowed to go ahead of you for a while so there is no need for him to fight for it, and then meaning of the 'heel' command becomes crystal clear to him. 

I discovered this method with Yana (surprisingly it was my bright idea







even though I'm sure it's nothing new, it's just nobody told me about it) who was a horrible puller, she pulled me into traffic one time and all this turn around things didn't work with her, and I thought I would never have her under control. Well, she's like a feather on a leash right now. Also alternating 'heel' and 'go ahead' is nice for keeping their eye on you even during relaxing walk.

When Anton or Yana were reacting towards dogs, each one for different reasons, I was never putting them in down position because I didn't want to put my stressed dogs into a submissive position. I enforce every single command I give so I need to think ahead of time about the suitability of my commands for a particular situation. 
What I did and do is a step forward, blocking the other dog with my body and then turn around and go in the opposite direction without a word. After my dog is calm we go in the intended direction or make a detour but I don't like to change my plans just because my dog reacts on something. Yana is fearful and Anton is dog reactive so I needed to come up with a routine that worked for all of us. 

I will be interested to hear what your trainer suggests you to do in this situation. He sounds like an awesome trainer, I wish we had access to such around here.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanks,if we end up at a road block on the heeling I'll try your method.I think she is getting the hang of this way though.Luckily she isn't a big puller unless something really gets her attention.We have so much going on I think we needed more time last week with the trainer and he ended up sick so I haven't been able to get questions answered easily.I finally called last night to see what the hold up was and he emailed me back late saying he had been sick.Next week I will get a few more questions answered he didn't answer today.So far all the answers I get about her nipping when she gets in it with Athena is I shouldn't let it get to that point.So I'm not sure what his answer will be.Some situations are unavoidable.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Ok so I asked the question on what to do in the situation of an encounter with another dog and this was his answer.

Morning,
You make 180 degree turn immediately and leave the situation. If turning your backs to the dogs works, then use that too. I would avoid putting her into a down though.


Mike


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks for letting us know! I'm glad to hear he suggested the same approach that I follow. It does work for me.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I think we are making progress.







All of a sudden today she is wanting to investigate and play with the vacuum and mop.A week ago she would have been scared of either and run and hid today she was playing tug with the mop as my Daughter cleaned up a mess she made.Now to tackle her dog aggression....No pun intended..


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I think we have more progress at least with the neighbors dogs.We are still struggling with the focus command but tonight she was doing better.We practiced for about 20 minutes in the bugs no less, sitting by the side of the road watching the neighbors dogs and cars.If I got her to "look" she got a treat, if she stared and looked at the dogs with no reaction she got a good girl.We walked around and back and forth and sat.She started to want to explore in the woods between our house and then something got her attention and she started to pull to them but no barking.She did however still have her hackle up.I'm not sure if hackles up and no barking is a good thing or not.I so want her to be OK with dogs again.She is going to be boarded overnight at the trainers boarding facility so maybe being near dogs making noises and possibly seeing them she will get better about it sooner.I then have to board her for a week the beginning of June so hopefully he can perfect her "look" command and maybe make some progress with other dogs.Maybe by some chance this will desensitize her a little more.That's all folks.A long and tedious process.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Sounds like she's coming along. I have this theory - the most obnoxious german shepherd puppies grow up to be the best dogs. Morgan was horrid, never knew what she was going to do next, eat the shrubs, kill a skunk, maybe remodel the kitchen with donuts and paper mache? She grew up to be just fine. I learned to read her signals, watch her ears and her posture then get preemptive - leave it, nien squirrel, don't bark at that lab...


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I hope that's the case.I need her to chill on the cats and other dogs.When she stared too long I got her attention and she looked at me.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

She'll grow up, give her no quarter, keep up on the training and someday you'll wake up saying 'Hey Athena, you turned into a good girl'

Morgan was tough becuase she wasn't motivated by food or ball - I used to use a tug when I worked wtih her.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I tried a squeaky toy but she was less attentive than using food.I know, someday we'll wake up and she'll be all grown up.I can't wait for that day.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

The next few months are the most horrid - from about 10 months to 18 months is where they flip you off all the time. 

With Otto I often get the attitude that I don't know what come means, I want to bark at that dog next door! 

Then there's the horrible stage I'm working Otto through - my puppy who loved everyone has learn that he's SCARY! If I growl and bark at people they go away WHOO HOOO look at me I'm SCARY and it's THRILLING! I've been taking him out without Morgan, walking him through crowds of freaky art students, past construction sites, on narrow sidewalks with people eating, sometimes with dogs etc etc anything I can think to throw at him that might stress him (but not too much). Just hammering him with this is life and if anyone wants to touch you dog, it's becuasze they like dogs and think you're handsome SO BE NICE.

He's also getting suspicious of men, must have learned it from Morgan...


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

So far she is awesome with people.If we meet them and they are carrying certain things she get all suspicious or if bikes go by us.She is a great in the yard on a tie out.If someone goes by she just watches them,she's the same way inside too for the most part.Tuesday when the garbage guy came she just sat in the door watching while Lexi barked her head off.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

LOL, I've spent 7 years trying to convince Morgan that I want those men in the stinky truck touching my trash can. Shesh.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaLOL, I've spent 7 years trying to convince Morgan that I want those men in the stinky truck touching my trash can. Shesh.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I emailed the trainer about her response or lack of response last night and this is what he had to say.

*That sounds like it's very good news. Hackles going up are more of an involuntary response that indicated general arousal. The fact that she doesn't "lose it" would lean towards her developing more self control/comfort in previously over stimulating scenarios. Your reaction to each instance you described was perfect, too.*


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

allie sounds like athena and you are doing good!! BRAVO!! 

And I agree with Jenn,,I think the most "trying" puppies grow up to be our best dogs )) of course they may not mature until they are around 7 or 8 LOL...but the wait it worth it ..

I love reading your updates on her training,,continued success !!!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Luckily I am the type to try to fix things before they get out of hand.I would rather deal with the training and waiting now, than seeing if it is something she will grow out of and then try to deal with a 4 or 10 year old aggressive dog.This is good practice for both of us with patience.I am not a person who like to wait for results.I want things fixed now not later.That is why I fail at diets.I always want to wake up a week later and be at my goal weight.Not possible so that is another slow process I am going through too.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

LOL, nope there's no quick fix for german shepherd puppies. Just keep on her and she'll get there. Someday... Morgan was like 5 before I stopped reminding her not to chase the squirrels when we're walking down the street.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Yes I am so glad she doesn't have wings.She even takes note of the birds in the sky......Living around here in the woods she is constantly getting the scent of things and trying to take me for a walk...


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

She's an intense working line girl. She's young so she has limited experience so it makes her bonkers trying to figure out what she's supposed to do. Batshit nuts is I think the technical term


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

To think this little 7lb pup came home to me a quiet little flower.She has now blossomed into a monster........A very gorgeous monster though.A monster I wouldn't trade for anything.We have learned a lot in the 10 months together.I believe she has lots and lots more to teach me over the next 12 + years....


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

Sounds like Athena's really improving Allie, keep up the good work!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanks we're trying.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Haven't had much to report lately but I do have some more good news.I had to board Athena for 9 days at the trainers kennel so we could go on vacation she started out anxious so he had to put her inside for a day or 2.I think it was Wed he emailed me to say he got her to play with his dog.I was so proud of her.I just got more details of there experience so here is how the trainer Mike described there interaction.
*
Hi Alison,
Unfortunately no, I didn't get the video as hoped. Things rarely go as planned around here







Not to much to report that you don't already know. Athena is easily stimulated and has a very low frustration threshold. After spending some time with her; I'm convinced this is what we're seeing as "aggression". She was fine with McKenna so long as I kept her in a down-stay (McKenna) When I had McKenna run past her, she snapped. So in addition to your current work, our next session we'll go over calming exercises to help build her tolerance. 


Other than that, she's a sweetheart












Mike*



I was concerned about her meeting with Lexi after being away for 9 days but it went well.Lexi was the one being the butthead.I wish I had gotten a picture of her with Lexi.I swear Athena was trying to hug lexi,she was over her with her paws crossed around her neck like a hug.But of course Lexi flipped out and got them in a little spat.So that's all that is new in our adventure.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I really think we are making progress.I have been able to keep her calm sitting in front of the neighbors penned up dogs.When she sees them moving around she will start to let them know she is there,I give her a quick correction and she stops.She will sit when I tell her to in front of them and she will lay down on her own and just looks at them or tonight she was more interested in the birds then the dogs.I treat her like crazy if she glances at them without an outburst.If the rain ever stops I plan on moving our training into town with different dogs so she just isn't comfortable with the neighbors dogs.

Is it possible that I will never get a good Look command with her? If we find another way for her to deal is that OK too?I'm going to keep trying and hope she gets it eventually.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Allie, how have you been trying to get her to look at you? Maybe you need a new command, start with it when your trainer is with you - fresh start on focus with a new word. I like actung becuase it's sharp sounding and it's not something the dog will hear in every day human conversation.

I hope it goes well taking her downtown. Be vigilent when you see another dog, tell her to leave it before she even see it. 

Lol it'll stop raining someday...


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I've just been using look.She'll look if she isn't intent on a smell or sight but she won't hold it for any length of time.
The kids last day of school is tomorrow so it had better stop raining or one of us will not survive.I can bet I'll still be breathing by the end of the week it's a crap shoot as to which kid won't if I am stuck in the house with 2 dogs,6 cats and 2 teenagers....Oh and a joy of a husband who needs to sleep during the day.......


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Ask the trainer about switching the command up, see what he thinks. I'd go with a really high value treat - like roast beef or pepperoni.

Want to switch joys? My parents are coming in wednesday, 3 preschoolers, a pre-geriatric dogess who never was kind to begin with and the puppy who is stuck in that horrid puppy dog phase where he isn't sure if he wants to terrorize someone or give them his ball. I have a shiny new bathroom... (almost, just finished painting the door and I have to say benj moore duramel gives one heck of a buzz)


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

She seems very interested in the Natural Balance roll I cut up into small pieces.Since she got her tummy fixed she is an eating machine.I may have to start cutting back her food once we get heavy on the training.
I'll talk with the trainer about a different command.

I may get stuck with my Mom again.She is seeing a Dr and trying to get one in Concord but I am trying to talk her into Manchester or Exeter.One of us will definitely not survive if she's here another week.Unless she is drugged up of course...


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

We're making some progress.I can at least keep her under control when another dog is in sight.I do have a question though.How often should I be getting her out with other dogs?Should I make a point to do it everyday or only a few days a week?I don't want to stress her out too much, but I don't want to have her forget the good in between if we don't do it enough.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I love reading your updates ))

I would get her out every single day,,(if you can)I doubt it will stress her, I would think more exposure, more benefit, the more she gets used to it, the less stress..

Are you keeping a good distance, as in a distance where there is no reaction from her? That's what I would probably do, no reaction, start closing your distance,,if you get a reaction, back up go back to the place where there is no reaction..) (comfort zone work)..

Sounds like you are working hard with her!! Good for you girlz!!
diane


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Providing the other dog is non reactive I can get with in 10 ft with little problems.I still have to correct but she calms down.In the park I have been using I am keeping my distance by sitting at a picnic table and just watching the dogs,she usually lays down and has little reaction.I treat like heck when she is calm watching to others.I can get with in 5 ft of the neighbors dogs and is ok unless they start reacting.I have been having a hard time finding dogs so any chance I get I go for it.I actually went looking for a dog that walked by the house and didn't come back and sure enough they were heading back our way so we just sat in the yard waiting and she did awesome with them walking back.I am also seeing a difference in her when we walk where there are bikes and cars.She wasn't too bad but I could tell they made her uncomfortable.Our friend said this weekend that he has noticed she is keeping her ears up more so that is good,she is getting more certain of herself.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

allie, that is great ! it sounds like she is doing wonderful and your on the right track ! keep up the good work !


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Sounds like it's starting to pay off! Time and practice, the more different experiences and other dogs she sees that are nice to her, the more comfortable she will be going and doing anything.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I hope I didn't mess up our training today.Athena had a vet appt for shots and a well visit.I decided since no dogs were in the waiting room I would take her in instead of getting her and entering through the private door to the room.So we go in weigh her then another dog comes in.We get by him/her with little reaction and sit and feed treats while we wait and the other dog whines.We are separated by a display case so she does good only hearing the dog and not seeing.Here goes the "I hope I didn't hurt our training."We go into the exam room and she shuts down.She hides from the vet and tech and will not go near them.She has always loved people and never been scared to death of them. The vet tech did manage to befriend her but the vet didn't.

Was it the stress of the dog in the waiting room?









Was it the vet? She was not the one I wanted to see but since I needed to change her appt and it had to be done by the 1st of Aug I didn't question who they set it up with.









Or is she in another fear stage I have to get her through?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I don't see athena being afraid of the vets/tech as being an "unnormal" thing..

Think about it, there are hundreds of 'smells' (that we don't smell), at the vets, most times a dog goes to the vet its for a shot or something they feel is unpleasant, it's a scarey place !!

Masi has no problems in the waiting room, we get in that room and the door closes and she wants 'out', she is not thrilled with being there either, and does not care for my vet all . (all my other dogs are fine thank goodness)..

Even having my vet give her treats, doesn't help,,she'll take the food, but that's about it...

What I have found works for her, tho I'm not crazy about it, is to hand her off to one of the techs, she goes along willingly, gets her shot or whatever, and returns, they have all told me she is very aggreeable and fine with them all ..Having me around doesn't help her it seems at the vet..)

I don't think you've ruined her,,it is definately something they have to get used to, god forbid they need numerous vet visits,, Masi is fine when we leave, and doesn't hold it against me )


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

What worried me is this is abnormal for her.She has loved any vet we have seen 3 different ones in her life.She has never shut down and been totally unwilling.

They did try taking her back,she was still a mess until they gave her a job,sit,stay, down then she was good with them.This vet always takes them back for blood,this is the first shot other than the one they came out to the car to give her so I'm not sure there practice for that.
The only other thing I can think of is this is the vet I have seen one other time with the cat and I was not thrilled with her.Maybe I have a reason to not like her as much as the other 2 I have seen there.I was going to stick with one vet if possible but maybe I need to see them at different visits so she isn't use to just the one.What do you think?


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## VectorSketcher (Jul 20, 2008)

Hi Allie! It sounds like you and Athena have been doing so good, I am sorry about the little vet issue, if it makes you feel any better your not alone, I go through the same thing with Rogue at the vets, Rogue is a lot like your Athena, especially with other dogs that is still a working progress. In my humble opinion I feel like having Rogue see the same vet every time is a good thing for Rogue, she is comfortable with her Vet and it has taken us awhile to get Rogue use to the one vet. Actually I love this woman to death, she is not scared of my GSD's and she has been with them both since they were wee pups. But I can definately see the advantage of Athena seeing different people each time as well, I guess I am just more picky and want only the one vet I love to see my dogs.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Since her episode I am just curios now if it was the vet,or being insecure with a dog around.It has been since April or May since she has had to go but who wants to take the dog in if it isn't needed.I wonder also if I should ask her original vet there what his take is on it? It just blows my mind and if it was because it was new since she hasn't been in a while what do I do about it?If she get afraid of people now I am going to feel so bad for her.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

So for those who don't know, we found a new trainer.I felt like the other trainer let us down and wasn't willing to work with us one on one.I consulted a few different trainer who all sounded the same but narrowed it down to 2.One I consulted wanted to use the electric collar and this one I went with is just using regular corrections and obedience.

Our first session was last week and we started out in the training room doing obedience then he brought a dog in.We did sit stays,down stays,walked the dogs around each other.After her initial outburst she calmed down.She only snapped once and we still don't know what set her off.
We then went out into town and walked the trail in hopes of finding dogs.Evidently I should have been driving an hour plus this summer because all the dogs are in Wolfeboro..We encountered a couple of dogs and only had a problem with the 2 that were dragging there owner.
I've continued this training to a visit to the mountains Saturday and some visits to the farm up the road.Cows work the same because she is scared of them if they get too close too.

Today we had our 2nd session.He upped the anti today.We walked the town with 2 other reactive dogs.They actually seemed fine but I guess they're both shelter dogs that need work.We started out in a parking lot then headed out to all walk into town.She did awesome..








We all walked in a different order so no one was in the same order the whole walk.The only time she tried to snap was when he had the other woman walk her dog around us and it was in close quarters so she started to snap but with a quick gentle snap she stopped.I was so proud.We had to sit in front of a van that had a yappy dog in it.Didn't bother her much.We then sat in the park and 2 dogs were near the 3 of us and she was more concerned with watching the people near the bus then the 4 dogs in her sight.
In just 2 weeks we have made a lot of progress.I already feel more comfortable taking her out and about.Next week I am going to take her to a petstore trip,that will be my real test.In the past I haven't been able to take her in because she is so loud and obnoxious when she sees another dog.She is learning to ignore them more every time we go out.
Stay tuned for more training and stories.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Allie that is sooooo great ! I am so happy and proud of you both! Glad you've hung in there, and finally have found a GOOD trainer that your seeing results with!! 

GOod for you both,,keep us updated, you know I love reading about Athena's training adventures!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I have a feeling there will be a lot of them.I have to find something for the winter.I can't drive to him once the snow hits so I need to find something else to keep her going through the winter.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

That's great Allie. I'm not big on e-collars on babies so I'm very glad you're not going this route with her.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I felt she wasn't that bad to warrant the e-collar.Plus like others said where do I go from there if that doesn't work? With her nerves I was afraid it would put her over the edge.He assured me he would be a lot gentler on the remote than I am, but I just couldn't do it.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Not necessary. She's just a baby. She's also not as buff or beastly as Otto,







Mr 2 leashes just incase he breaks one of them or snaps another prong collar!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I know,she's just scared of them for some reason.Having the remote in my hand is one thing but putting it in a total strangers hands is to scary.
With this trainer I feel we have a chance this time. I didn't ever think I would be able to walk her with 2 other dogs on the same side walk.She made me proud today.
It sure does tire her out though.She is passed out on the floor by me and the neighbors dogs are carrying on and she isn't budging..Maybe she'll chill with them barking all the time now. 
No one has snapped any collars but someone(Lexi) ate the leather one I had.Good thing I have 2 so I can walk Athena comfortably still.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

This weekend we had our first baby encounter.It went awesome.I had a house full of company stay here Sat night and Athena was very well behaved.Since we had the baby she was kept separate except for the one encounter we did.Only twice I put her in her house because I was leaving and then Sunday morning I did because she wouldn't stop sitting at the gate whining for the baby.
Today we went to Petco and Petsmart.Not too many dogs but we did see a couple and she did good.The doors scared her a little but I just kept walking with no response.We got lots of compliments on her obedience and behavior.She was a good girl today.
Tomorrow is another day with the trainer so stay tuned.I have no clue what he has planned for us.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

GOOD JOB!!!!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

SOunds like she's doing great. Keep up the good works and keep expanding the circle around her comfort zone. I bet the next time she sees an automatic door, she walks right through with confidence.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

She sure has come a long way since February.I'm going to try a Petco trip once a week until she walks through with out a fear.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I guess it's time for an update.
Last weeks training was with a Boxer walking though town.We did the usual of just walking them near each other and she did good.We met a couple of other dogs walking around.There was one she didn't react to but she was sniffing around the garbage so she missed it or it was her way of ignoring.
Sunday we went downtown and didn't meet up with any dogs.So I took her to the State Park.We walked the trail and had a hunter and his dog ahead of us and she didn't react.I decided to go to a different area in the park and ended up meeting up with a neighbor who I hadn't been able to meet up with and walked her with her dog.She always has the initial outbursts as if to say here I am and I am mean so leave me the heck alone.We walked around the loop 3 or 4 times and she didn't react again. We are going to try to do Sundays if the weather cooperates.
Things have been crazy this week so I haven't gotten her out since Sunday.DD has been home sick so I have been home all day with her.

Today we had another session.He had 2 different dogs and we did some different things.We gave her some freedom with a long line and for the most part she stayed away from the dogs,she wanted to be by me more.He put one of the dogs in a crate and I took her up to her and they sniffed.I think she may have had one mild correction.She for the most part wouldn't go to the dog on her own.We then put her in the crate and let the dogs go to her.She did growl once but was OK for the most part.
The only thing that I didn't like was her reaction when we got there.As soon as she realized where we were she was looking for an out.When we got into the training room she was a nervous wreck,shaking in her boots as one woman described.Why would being in a building scare her?Unless it is the walls to keep her from getting away.She doesn't act that way when I meet him in the park to train.She is fine with most people especially if they are on her turf.Heck after a 1/2 hr of the cable guy here the other day she was kissing him..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

it sounds like things are going GREAT!!! Kudos to you and Athena!!!

As for the building thing, it just may be the "place"...I know when I was taking Masi to those puppy classes that we had a rotten time with, she did NOT like going into the building,,she wasn't scared but she didn't want to go in,,,when I switched classes to a different place, she was happily going in there.

And YES, Masi (probably as Athena) would rather be out in an open space vs confining spaces,,so you may be right on about that with Athena..

Hey keep up the good work and keep the updates coming!!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I think next week once she warms up I might see if we can put the dogs away and see how she reacts to Jim.When he goes to let her sniff his hand she backs away but he always has a dog he is holding so I don't know if it is that. I would love to have him come here becuase that would be the true test of if she liked him.
How important is it for her to like him?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Sounds like she's making great progress, good smart little girl you have.

Morgan hates walking into the training facility too. Morgan, the queen! I started going there when she was a pup, took her puppy manners and agility classes there. She was a terribly nervous girl, I always thought it was whatever happened to her before I got her at 6 months.

Didn't take her back to the training place for like 5 years. James was born, she was pretty well trained, no need becuase she didn't care for school. 

Then before Otto came home, I took her for some drop in rally OB classes more to get myself back in the habit of training. As soon as we walked in there, she starts shaking. Yeah right dogs dont' have long term memory. It's not like anything bad every happened to her there - she was the star of her agility classes and the instructors were all over me to compete with her.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Today we hit the jack pot training.We went to our usual Sunday place and went at just the right time.We had a truck with sled dogs follow us in along with a few cars that were with them.They were practicing the dog pulling a bike and 4 wheeler on the trail.During the winter I knew they go there to race and practice but never have managed to be there at the same time.We were there for an hour or more while they hooked everyone up.If anyone is familiar with sled dogs they are loud and obnoxious while getting hooked up.She was nervous but for the most part did awesome watching them.Hopefully the link to facebook will work so you can see what I put her up against today.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2023888&id=1237453749&l=4c10bb10b4

We then went back at 3 and walked with the neighbor and her dog.Both dogs have problems but they did super.

I am so proud of her today.She is exhausted and will sleep good tonight..


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

sounds great !!! I saw the pics,,and yeah that's ALOT going on, she looks fine / comfortable with it all..

KUDOS to you both !!!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I emailed the trainer we work with as soon as we got home.He replied back and I think was shocked of our training. It would be awesome to keep meeting up with them.I guess there are a few teams that go there during the week when it is quiet.I just have to find out there schedule.I think it might help us tremendously to just be around them.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

definately !!! great opportunity to take advantage of,,hey who knows maybe Athena can eventually hook up with the sled dogs and have a new job ))))))


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

That would be an awesome goal.If the neighbor's Malamute wasn't a butthead we could hook them up and run then in the winter.She has a sled but I can't chance it with him even if Athena became friendly.
I've never seen what goes into getting them set up.It's a lot of work and patience.Plus all the yipping that goes on...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

one of my previous gsd's loved doing this in winter, (and I must say it was a good exercise to tire them out! LOL)

I got a nice pulling harness with lambskin lining, 2-8 ft traces (thick nylon lines with large snap hooks on each end) and would hook him up to a small sled,,he'd haul the kids around in the snow,,I wouldn't make it heavier than one small kid, but he loved it nonetheless))

It's something I'm contemplating with Masi this winter, to keep her busy )) with her I'll have her haul one of my aussies around LOL


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

If I could get her to pull something it would be a huge milestone since she is scared of things like that.My DD hooked her to a regular sled last winter and she got tangled in it and ran like heck around the yard till we finally caught her.It scared the crap out of her.
How can I make it better now after that?I have a harness that could be used to start to pull but it wouldn't be good for anything with weight.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

how trying some fun tracking with her using the harness?? maybe get her used to the harness again, get the sled out, but just leave it around,,let her see it,,then I'd get her standing on it!,,get her used to that sled again,,if you ever do hook her up to it again, I would also have a line on her that YOU hold, have her walking slowly,,,that type of thing, so you can control it, vs her getting tangled and freaking out..just an idea...

When I hooked Jake up to a sled,,I also hooked him to a long line that I held as well, just in case he decided to take off on a mission with some little kid in the sled LOL..


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I've used the harness for swimming and walking in the woods where I knew we wouldn't meet anyone/dog. I'll have to try it again holding a long line.I'm sure we'll have snow before you know it so the sleds will be back out.It would be good to get her over that hurdle at least.I have to read some books or sites on tracking and try it.I don't have the money right now with this other training she needs done.Got to focus on her fear aggression and obedience right now.


----------



## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

glad to hear your happy with the trainer you found. i am wishing you the best in success, and it will happen because your determined to make it so.....will be following your progress.

debbie


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Thank you.Where abouts in ME are you? I might try a meet up in the spring with a few people up there one being Athena's brother.Maybe your in the same area as them.Saco and Portland are where the 2 are from.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

i am in Bangor which is a few hours from Portland. i think thats near you meeting with them. are they dealing with the same issues?

wish i were closer to Portland would love to see Athena and meet you.....ya never know, i will be traveling with Sam for Agility comp in the spring/summer to southern me, Mass and NH.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Too bad my sister has a dog so when I go visit her in Etna I can't take Athena.She is around 20 minutes from Bangor,my Nephew is in Corinth.If it ever works out that I can take Athena with me we'll have to hook up if not able to another time.If you come to NH for competition let me know and I'll come see what it's all about.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

i am originally from the Corinth area, so i know it fairly well......

yes, definitely get in touch if you come up......

does your sister have a gsd?


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

No she has an annoying Brittney Spaniel(I think).She got him from a rescue somewhere up there. HE is the biggest PITA I have ever met.He would torment Athena to no end if I ever brought her there.Lexi puts him in his place when I take her.We'll see how far I get with her come next year and maybe I'll attempt it if she gets better.At least in the summer we can swap them inside and out and I could put her in her kennel out on the porch if I had to.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

we have a brittney spaniel in our agility group. not to impressed with this one. kinda shuts down in class at times, nervy stuff.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

He is just a butthead.He counter surfs,doesn't play with balls or anything so the only thing she can do with him is walk him for enjoyment.He keeps having accidents in the house...He won't listen she he has to be tied or walked on there 40 acres of land at a dead end road.Got any good trainers up there? He's between 8 and 10 yrs old now I can't remember.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

not alot of good trainers to pick from here. i can tell ya not to go to one in that area near dover, details will have to be done privately.

my general training and agility, is at Bear brook kennels in Brewer, its about the best there is in this area. and i also do OB and Tracking with the local SchH folks.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Pm me the details.I tried sending to you but your over your limit.Any advice or warnings for my sister would be good.They've only been up there a few years so not familiar with everyone.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Ok everyone hold onto your panties today.









We had our 5th session today.Jim had another aggressive GSD there.He had prepared me that Athena was nothing compared to this one.We get there early and do some basic OB down stays with lots of distraction.She did good,kept breaking but got the hang of it at the end.She didn't shake today like the past time or 2 and she seemed to warm up to Jim a little more today.
I watched the woman bring this dog in pulling her the whole way.I'm thinking great my dog is going to get eaten because she can't handle her.Luckily Jim walked the dog in and did most till the dog realized the room meant business.
As they entered Athena started her snorting and getting riled up I say no, with a little correction,she chills.It never escalated today.We had them up,down,walking,distractions and she did awesome.I am finding she is looking to me more when around the dogs.When the dog left I let her free in the room,when I called her to come so we could head out she came right to me and did the tightest sit look at the treat bag ever...It felt so good to have her come that close and put her attention on me, or the treats.
She never needed a big correction today nor did she snap like the past 4 sessions.I was walking her pretty close to the other dog too.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I read this under brags,,but wanted to say YEAH YEAH YEAH!!!!!!!
WOOO HOOO !!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Not much to report.We've worked a little on our own but had a week off from training since he went on vacation.

So today was our last private class.He is setting up group ones so we'll see when that happens so know if we're doing it.So here is today's rundown.

I guess I must be a brave bitch.The woman I worked with today has done nothing for training her 4 yr old shepherd in the 2 weeks since class.He wants her doing simple stuff of having the pup and adult dog together or crated next to each other so they get use to each other.She has a dog aggressive shep too.She is too scared to do it and it shows.She was scared of the way Athena was looking at the puppy and almost put him back in the car.It's over with and I probably don't have to see her again unless she gets into the group classes he is setting up.RANT OVER..

She is doing super.By the end of the hour she laid down and relaxed with all going on.We had 4 dogs there today to work around.One dog we got to be about a foot away and would have been fine but he was so excited his LONG tail was going a mile a minute and kept hitting her back end.She just got up and tried to move away but I put her right back not so close so his tail wouldn't ruffle her fur. 

When there is a dog crated she is pretty good with it.She sniffs it and does OK but would rather avoid the dogs altogether.Better than before, she wanted at them, now she will avoid them for the most part.I can get her to listen to me.That is a huge difference than in the spring.I could have yelled right in her ear and she would have continued to flip out .All it takes now is a quick correction and a sit and she does it.She looks to me now also which she never did before.

I am so proud of us for getting this far in 6 weeks.I never imagined I could take her out in public like I can now.Not playgroup material but that's fine.Maybe she is more like me than I thought,I hate crowds too and get a little anxious sometimes.......


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

this is great! and hey mine have Never been playgroup material, and that has been fine by me, as long as they do exactly what athena is doing,,deal with it, avoiding is FINE by me,,and it sounds like athena is really settling in to "life" )))))

So proud of you both, 

That woman with the puppy, ugh, i feel bad for it.(

Continued successes!!!!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

The woman really bugs me.I'm glad I don't have to work with her.She went and bought a Giant Snouzer(sp) pup knowing her dog was aggressive then decided to do something about the GSD.Now is too scared to have her kids(older13 and 10 )help her or do the crate exercises. Her husband just had double knee replacements too.I think her timing was horrible for a puppy with all that was going on.

Now back to us.Yes I can deal with avoidance.
I forgot to add about yesterday.We went to the feed store to get her food.I left her in the truck so I could carry the 33 lbs of food.Well, one of the workers love GSD so she has to be paged and go see her.I take her out of the truck and she is nervous trying to hide,get away whatever.The woman is trying to be nice talking to her,petting her,giving her a treat.She finally eats the treat broken up ,like she hadn't eaten all day.Then she loves the woman.The woman started out sitting on the ground getting her to be friends.She finally goes over to her and kisses her,the woman gets up and she starts playing with her,running and jumping like she does with us.She was so funny playing with the stranger.


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## jencarr (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Allie - I was looking at this post last night and read back in the beginning the tips on getting Athena to heel. I have been trying with Jackson but he insists on being way ahead of me. He doesn't pull, but wants to be out front. When I tried holding him back so he would be next to me he would start pulling.
So, this morning I tried the method of walking backwards and after a few times he actually got it. So, I alternated heels with letting him be out in front. This will be our new morning walk routine! I hated constantly correcting him with the prong for pulling because it didn't work & I could tell after awhile he was just not enjoying his walk anymore. Me either!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Glad it helped.Neither have fully worked for us but she isn't a real puller. She may get to the end of her leash but she doesn't pull.Not sure if I put it in but the new trainer uses the method of turning around walking back a few steps then go back the way you were headed.The only time I have a real problem is if I walk with the kids and they decide to walk ahead of us then she flips out and pulls and barks.She has to be leading the pack with me....Go figure...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Allie that's great about the stranger at the feed store! Food can be a powerful motivator)))


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

Allie, she's doing great! Hang tough and keep taking her to class. Before you know it, you're going to have a nicely behaved aloof dog who's cautious with strangers and ignores other dogs. Perfect IMHO.


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## jencarr (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Athena's New Training*

I do the turn and walk in the other direction method, too. Jackson will heel great while we take the steps going back but once we continue the other way he goes back out in front. It is like he has a set distance in mind that he wants to have out in front.
He lost control this morning because he saw a cat lying under a truck. The cat didn't even flinch. But I corrected him - he looked sorry - and he got back under control & heeling again pretty quick.
Glad things are going well with Athena!


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