# Looking For WGSL or WGWL - California



## ventiamericano (Jun 29, 2016)

Long time stalker, first time poster. I have been researching German Shepherds for months now and have few questions as start to look for breeders that match my specific needs.

Thank you all in advance for your answers and input. Please correct any naive statements or false assumptions I am making.

Location. I am located in Nor Cal, but I am willing to travel up to Washington and down to SoCal. 

Background: I have owned Labs in the past and have greatly enjoyed training and obedience, but I have never participated in formal sports. I am an outdoorsy and active individual and would like to go running and hiking with my dog. I would also like to get into some dog sports, but since I have never been involved before, I am not sure how much I will progress. 

Labs are great dogs, but is drawing me to GSDs are their loyalty, nerves, and attention. 

What I am Looking For: This is where I am a bit confused as to whether a working line or a show line would be more appropriate for my needs.

(1) First and foremost, this dog will need to be a companion. I loved cuddling with my labs, and I am a bit afraid that I would lose that level of emotional connection with a GSD - especially as WGWL (PLEASE correct me if I am wrong). The dog would be getting plenty of exercise and stimulation, but would probably spend a great majority of the weekdays indoors, so would need an "on/off" switch. Weekends, of course, would be spent out doors. 


(2) Temperament. I am looking for a dog that would have strong nerves, affection, trainability, obedience, and medium prey drive. I would like to explore sports, but wouldn't be the end of the world if that didn't work out. Would rather have an affectionate, solid dog, with an "off" switch than an excellent sporting dog that was always "on" and never wanted to settle down for the day. This is mainly where I am confused as to whether a working line or show line would be more appropriate.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Where in NorCal are you?


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## ventiamericano (Jun 29, 2016)

I am in the SF Bay Area.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

ventiamericano said:


> Long time stalker, first time poster. I have been researching German Shepherds for months now and have few questions as start to look for breeders that match my specific needs.
> 
> Thank you all in advance for your answers and input. Please correct any naive statements or false assumptions I am making.
> 
> ...



Responses in red.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

There are quite a lot of breeders in NorCal. I only know a few who breed WLGSD's which might be higher drive dogs than you're looking for.
Ajay Singh, vom Patiala
Randy Witmer-Tyson
True Haus
Christina Clay, vom Donau Ries-my breeder
There's plenty of other people here who can recommend other breeders.


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## ventiamericano (Jun 29, 2016)

Thanks Ausdland, would you say that the breeders that you note in your post produce dogs that are "balanced" in the way that mycobraracr described above?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I will second vom Patiala and Ajay Singh and, yes, he does produce a nice balanced dog. He doesn't breed very often, though. He doesn't seem to have a regular website anymore. 

FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/vompatiala


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## Strikker (Dec 2, 2015)

Not sure if they have a litter ready but you may want to call Adlerhimmel in Nor Cal. I have been impressed with the dogs I have seen and worked with from them.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You should go out to Menlo in Newark. You'll probably be able to meet 3 of those breeders and see some of their dogs in person. 

Menlo Park Schutzhund Club: Welcome!


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

ventiamericano said:


> Thanks Ausdland, would you say that the breeders that you note in your post produce dogs that are "balanced" in the way that mycobraracr described above?


The breeders I mentioned breed very good gsd's. I'm unfamiliar with ALL of their dogs. My pup is high drive but is starting to chill out at 11 months. She's been a total handful but well worth it. I was referred to Chris Clay by Randy Witmer-Tyson, who seems to only want to sell puppies to working owners. As mentioned, Ajay Singh doesn't breed often but is a great resource for good quality GSD's, WL and SL. Steve Strom probably can recommend other local breeders. I don't know who mycobraracr is. She could have great puppies? I'd find out how prevelant Giardia is on a property/kennel in the Valley. I had a bad experience with a breeder/puppy from the Valley. I'd talk to many local breeders before going to see any puppies. Once you see them, it's hard to leave w/o one.


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## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Have you found a breeder? I am also looking for the same thing. I am now leaning on the working line but also need it primarily as a loyal pet for my family. 
Vom Danau ries will maybe have some on a few months. - Knows of a 2 year old now. 
Ajay only knew of a 4 month old in Redding. 

Let me know if youve had any luck


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

You could also check out ErtelHaus Long Coat German Shepherds - Home


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## Ripley2016 (Mar 6, 2016)

Ventiamericano:

Love your name, hehe

I'm in Nor Cal as well, but farther up north than you are. What you described as far as your lifestyle and desires from a dog match mine pretty closely.

I researched a lot of breeders in the Nor Cal area. I ultimately went with Nadelhaus (previously in Chico, CA but just moved to Corning, CA). Tracy Needles is the owner and has been breeding GSDs for over 20 years. She breeds a very consistent type of dog and has litters all year round. My pup is 17 weeks old and is healthy and so far has a great temperament and energy level. She is also darn good looking, IMHO  Additionally, I've called Tracy with questions a few times since bringing my pup home and she has been a helpful resource. She breeds west german show line shepherds.

I would also recommend looking into Vom Haus Middleton Shepherds out of Redding/Palo Cedro. Diana Hawkins is the breeder and I know she has a pregnancy waiting to be confirmed in August, for her gorgeous half show/half working dam Dakota, and the Sire is Aladin from Bobbi King's kennel in Galt - he's studded out a LOT of litters in CA and is a great dog, absolutely gorgeous. This is a repeat breeding and she has pics of the previous pups she can show you. I didn't use her only because I wanted a Dakota/Aladin pup but they didn't get any girls.

And speaking of Bobbi King, you can try contacting her too - she's a very reputable breeder and in fact bred the dog that was used in the movie I Am Legend - I just decided to go with Nadelhaus because they were closer and Bobbi doesn't have a website to view her dogs and upcoming litters and such.

Hope that helps!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so is this good (Nadelhaus) She breeds a very consistent type of dog and has litters all year round

seems like there are a lot of females .


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## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Ripley2016 said:


> Ventiamericano:
> 
> Love your name, hehe
> 
> ...


I was looking at the working lines and showlines. 
Nadelhaus: Any allergies with your dog? I have west german showline and she tends to have dry skin all year long..

I like the idea of the working and show in VHM breeder...just looking for more information. Price seems reasonable. 
I will attach the pedigrees and see what people think
Thanks

BTW I knew someone with the I am legend dog's offspring..said she could be jumpy at times


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## Ripley2016 (Mar 6, 2016)

carmspack said:


> so is this good (Nadelhaus) She breeds a very consistent type of dog and has litters all year round
> 
> seems like there are a lot of females .


Consistency was a plus for me as I wanted to know within reason what to expect in terms of appearance and temperament from my new pup.

She has a huge ranch with many dogs who seemed quite happy there.


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## Ripley2016 (Mar 6, 2016)

Barcagp said:


> I was looking at the working lines and showlines.
> Nadelhaus: Any allergies with your dog? I have west german showline and she tends to have dry skin all year long..
> 
> I like the idea of the working and show in VHM breeder...just looking for more information. Price seems reasonable.
> ...



I am not aware of any allergies for my dog at this time.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

I hope you realize there is a big difference between working line and show line. If you are an outdoorsy kind of guy you might want to focus more on working line.


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## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Julian G said:


> I hope you realize there is a big difference between working line and show line. If you are an outdoorsy kind of guy you might want to focus more on working line.


I can be both...Ive owned showlines before and they keep me busy...I can run in the mornings with it or walk...my wife will do the same in the evening. 
She works 9-5
I work 3-9 So we need a dog that can be with us at all times. We can do lots of obedience work with the dog but cannot be so high a drive where it needs to be herding, policing or just super active all the time. It will need to crate a couple hours a day while my wife gets home. 
I basically need to take it everywhere with us and be with us..i need a buddy. 
both lines seem to be able to do that.
Also want a realy really really friendly dog. but each one is different


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"I basically need to take it everywhere with us and be with us..i need a buddy. 
both lines seem to be able to do that.
Also want a realy really really friendly dog. but each one is different


what do you mean by friendly ?

be careful that you understand the correct nature of the GSD which is to be aloof --- stable , sound, tolerant , neutral, neither hostile , or friendly seeking attention , nor shy. Reserved, calm, an aire of control and being able to control.

discriminating . Loving loyalty reserved for the family .


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I have owned some very friendly German Shepherds, all from reputable breeders and quality dogs. Just because aloof is standard doesn't mean they all are. And it also doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the dog or wanting a sociable dog. I have also owned aloof dogs and I don't think they made any better pets. We don't need settle for standard with pet dogs that will never be bred.


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## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

carmspack said:


> "I basically need to take it everywhere with us and be with us..i need a buddy.
> both lines seem to be able to do that.
> Also want a realy really really friendly dog. but each one is different
> 
> ...



Has to be friendly with family and friends...and I guess the word I am looking for is neutral in public. 
With all the generalizations people sometimes throw at the dog breed, it needs to have solid nerves where it wont care of its surroundings but just its family. Yes Aloof is the correct word.

I just dont want a nervous dog in public with a history of it in the family...nervous dogs are the ones that react.

My past shepherds have all had their faults, my current one can sometimes be nervous around dogs but she did have a somewhat bad experience as a puppy and I don't really want to have that again. I really do understand that the handler and trainng has to be good but Ive also seen dogs that no matter the handler, they will always need special ways of living.


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## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> I have owned some very friendly German Shepherds, all from reputable breeders and quality dogs. Just because aloof is standard doesn't mean they all are. And it also doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the dog or wanting a sociable dog. I have also owned aloof dogs and I don't think they made any better pets. We don't need settle for standard with pet dogs that will never be bred.


and yes to that extent..i agree and I am happy living with a happy dog if thats what I get, better it be friendly then overly anxious and nervous around people. 
Our 6 yr old now is the friendliest with welcomed people and in public....she will only react to people if you walk into our home and we did not invite you in or greet you at the door. 
I can live with that
and no, I will not be breeding my dog...she will be spayed.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> I have owned some very friendly German Shepherds, all from reputable breeders and quality dogs. Just because aloof is standard doesn't mean they all are. And it also doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the dog or wanting a sociable dog. I have also owned aloof dogs and I don't think they made any better pets. We don't need settle for standard with pet dogs that will never be bred.


aloof does not mean anti-social

when things are too far out of alignment with the breed specific character standards then there are other things that are wrong -- 

my dogs are social , but don't wear their hearts on their sleeves 

that breed specific character is fundamental to what makes a breed "the" breed . A Golden retriever should have an expectation for certain traits - do not show me a Golden Retriever doing schutzhund - it shouldn't be part of their package. 

A gsd should have some level of suspicion and vigilance -- not fear - but watchfulness .

why bother having a breed at all when you have a universal , generic dog interior dressed up in the exterior appearance of the breed you prefer.

A gsd , a beagle, a golden retriever , the feisty terriers -- all different at the core , or why bother with a breed at all.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

carmspack said:


> aloof does not mean anti-social
> 
> when things are too far out of alignment with the breed specific character standards then there are other things that are wrong --
> 
> ...


I understand now, thank you. Yes, they show watchfulness, but are also very friendly when I give permission. I thought you meant unsociable all the time.


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## zetti (May 11, 2014)

carmspack said:


> aloof does not mean anti-social
> 
> when things are too far out of alignment with the breed specific character standards then there are other things that are wrong --
> 
> ...


I agree. Aloof is not anti social. Nor is it shy, nervous or spooky. If we stray too far from the standard, we risk losing the breed.


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