# looking 2 breed my male..b/t 125# +



## kdlong72 (Jan 14, 2011)

I have an excellent gsd, big boned, blk/tan..west german, sloped back,short snout, big chest and head, short haired. He is just akc..but both of his parents have awesome pedeigree...certified hips ect..have 10 generation pedigree on him, full of champion dogs in germany as well in u.s...sch iii both in show and working lines. He is 9 and is very intelligent, and would like a pup to carry on his bloodline. 

Thanks, kenny


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## rvadog (Dec 9, 2010)

Seriously? Another?


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## Lora (Jan 7, 2011)

WOW speechless


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

kdlong72 said:


> I have an excellent gsd, big boned, blk/tan..west german, sloped back,short snout, big chest and head, short haired. He is just akc..but both of his parents have awesome pedeigree...certified hips ect..have 10 generation pedigree on him, full of champion dogs in germany as well in u.s...sch iii both in show and working lines. He is 9 and is very intelligent, and would like a pup to carry on his bloodline.
> 
> Thanks, kenny


^^^^ 

I can't wait to see the responses this gets


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## irongrl (May 24, 2010)

:lurking:


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## Lora (Jan 7, 2011)

Am I crazy or is it just my way of thinking... if these GSD's would make such great studs with Champion bloodlines, great temperment and fantastic breeding qualities would the original breeder not of kept them or sold them off to another qualified kennel. I have no idea what the cost of your wonderful GSD was, but one that has the quality's of a wonderful stud is not one the average joe can afford. Just my 3 cents worth.... Hubby says I am crazy!


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Kenny, have you contacted the breeder that you got your boy from? They may still be breeding the same line. If they are not if you post the pedigree here someone may be able to give you some guidance in tracking down a relative.

You dog sounds wonderful and I understand you wanting another like him especially as he is getting older. My heart dog just turned 10 and I think if I could have him cloned I would be so tempted. 

Hope you stay around and share your love of the breed with us. I don't know of any that are as smart and loyal as a GSD.


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## 1der_girl (Aug 16, 2006)

Thank you Ilghaus!
Others who posted in response- I know we are all frusturated and tired of ignorant people who want to become "breeders", but please try to remember that what they need is education. If my first post here had gotten this kind of response from people, I can't say that I would have come back and learned all of the wonderful things that the combined knowledge of this board has to offer.
If we offend people, they will leave, go to Craig's List or somewhere similar, and breed anyway. If we (nicely) educate people, maybe we will change a few minds about breeding, and save puppies from being bred in the first place.
~Aimee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

:thumbup: TJ & Aimee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would take the dog back to the breeder, have it evaluated, maybe the breeder will breed a female to it, or maybe they are still producing dogs of the same lines or a repeat litter (probably not since the dog is 9, but worth looking into). Breeding the dog will not guarantee the pups will be anything like the dog. But the original breeder would have better knowledge of how to produce and reproduce the qualities you are looking for (which are....??).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Lora said:


> I have no idea what the cost of your wonderful GSD was, but one that has the quality's of a wonderful stud is not one the average joe can afford. !


Not necessarily. You can't guarantee how a dog turns out. A puppy sold for $7500 might end up with bad elbows and an overbite. A puppy sold for $1500 might be the next VA dog. Proven top showline studs are more than tens of thousands, yes, but only using these dogs for breeding just creates even more of the genetic bottleneck. I have a fairly nice male if I might say so and have received a few legitimate requests for using him as a stud in the future, something to consider. I wouldn't instantly write off someone because they aren't importing 100K studs or only breeding to Quenn, Zamp, Vegas, etc.

I'm not condoning the OP but there's a chance s/he does have a very nice dog.


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## kdlong72 (Jan 14, 2011)

well, i'm not a breeder..nor do i want to be..i was looking to find a good large female to breed him with so i could get a pup from him. his line is in germany so thats out.. i use my dog as a pet and protection for my home.. and yes i'm no expert !!!!! just a regular guy looking to breed his dog...and for whom ever wants to know, i give $2500 for him. thanks for your help..


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

kdlong, please stick around and read the threads in the various forums, you'll learn and hopefully contribute to the threads. 
Where is Benton?


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Some things that you might find helpful

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...r/149386-should-i-breed-my-dog-flowchart.html

Does your dog meet the standard?
United Schutzhund Clubs of America - Breed Standard

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breeding-general/149766-looking-breed-my-male.html


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## RazinKain (Sep 13, 2010)

Geez, another brand new member has been chased off because he came out of obscurity and made a '_ridiculous_' request. Some people on this board need to step back and realize that not everyone that comes to this forum is 'all knowing'. Some people may not realize that there's an overabundance of dogs in shelters (not everyone works in a shelter), or that by breeding their dog that they are contributing to the problem. This guy didn't seem to be trolling, just made a simple inquiry and got raked over the coals and made to look like an idiot. I'm not disagreeing with the points made here, just the manner in which they were made.......


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

If you breed your male you are a breeder.

Now if you are going to breed, do it RESPONSIBLY!! People have provided some links and offered some advice to put you in the right direction. Please stay and learn about this breed that we all love and enjoy.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Before you breed your dog, you need to have him measured as "excellent" by someone other than yourself. A good way to start with this is to make an appointment to have X-rays of his hips and elbows done to send in to OFFA for rating. You may also want to consider testing for common things passed on genetically, such as von Willebrand's disease.

In addition to these types of health tests, your dogs "excellence" must also be measured against the breed standard in terms of appearance and temperament. Appearance is measured by putting your dog into conformation in front of judges who will rate him. Temperament is measured by working your dog, preferably in a venue relevant to the breed, such as Schutzhund or herding. It must be measured by competing your dog in front of different judges, preferably to working titles.

Once that is done, you will know whether your dog is truly "excellent" by objective standards such as the breed standard and those who have judged your dog in the ring and on the field. At that point, you can make an educated decision on whether to breed your dog or not.

I can tell you right now that having a 10 generation pedigree is nothing special. Aside from people whose dogs came from backyard breeders or rescues, anyone whose dogs came from registered breeding stock can get a pedigree on their dogs. 

I can also tell you that at nine years old, your dog is pretty old to consider using him as a stud if your goal is to breed responsibly as it would be too old for him to start in any sporting venue.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

kdlong72 said:


> well, i'm not a breeder..nor do i want to be..i was looking to find a good large female to breed him with so i could get a pup from him. his line is in germany so thats out.. i use my dog as a pet and protection for my home.. and yes i'm no expert !!!!! just a regular guy looking to breed his dog...and for whom ever wants to know, i give $2500 for him. thanks for your help..


Have you considered just getting another dog from your breeder, then? Your breeder would know how to produce another dog like him. Heck, your breeding might have a son or grandson from your dog's sire they are breeding.


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## RogueRed26 (Jul 15, 2010)

> Have you considered just getting another dog from your breeder, then? Your breeder would know how to produce another dog like him. Heck, your breeding might have a son or grandson from your dog's sire they are breeding.


That is a wonderful suggestion, GSD Fan! =)


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Thank you.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Have educated over and over - but once again.....

at 9 years old it may be that even with all the clearances, credentials and females knocking at your door - the capability of producing pups is over and done...the male is not fertile. 

You want to have a pup like your male - then study his bloodlines, and look for someone selling a litter with some lines in common - or as many said, go back to the original breeder - without seeing the pedigree, it is hard to know where to point you for this.

Breeding your male to a female to get you a similar pup means finding a female of good quality....as in every species - the female (owner!) gets to chose the papa of the pups....and you have to take what is offered - everyone wants to breed "UP" - to as good or better a partner....The prospective daddy must offer something attractive to prospective females to be chosen - AKC papers and pedigree full of champions is the base line of pretty much all dogs being bred - you need more to offer, and unfortunately - at 9 years old, you do not have the time to obtain more....

I have recently posted a long response to someone who wants to be a breeder - much of that info is applicable to any situation - if you breed your dog, you are a breeder - even if it is one time.

I hope you realize that when you ask a question, you might necessarily NOT like the answers - but that all here are dog lovers, in particular, GSD lovers, and there is a wealth of knowledge, unlimited variations of perspective, and not a little frustration which comes from that knowledge....many here can help you find a relative of your beloved male - and will do so willingly and without regard for thanks....and many here just write faster than they think, and sometimes do not phrase things so politically correct...I hope you avail yourself of the help that is offered and take the criticisms as not really personal, but situational....

Lee


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

1der_girl said:


> Thank you Ilghaus!
> Others who posted in response- I know we are all frusturated and tired of ignorant people who want to become "breeders", but please try to remember that what they need is education. If my first post here had gotten this kind of response from people, I can't say that I would have come back and learned all of the wonderful things that the combined knowledge of this board has to offer.
> If we offend people, they will leave, go to Craig's List or somewhere similar, and breed anyway. If we (nicely) educate people, maybe we will change a few minds about breeding, and save puppies from being bred in the first place.
> ~Aimee


Isn't that the truth. There was almost ZERO real feedback and help prior to this.

kdlong72, have you had a chance to check out what most of us think of when we support a 'responsible' breeder? http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html Just checking out all the links and information on that should take a few days.

Additionally, there are THOUSANDS of great GSD's in the USA with documentation exactly like your dog. Exactly. Some of them are sitting in Kill Shelters as I'm typing this and won't make it thru the next week. I own dogs with a lineage that is probably as good as your dog but I have no intention of ever breeding them or being a breeder.

Just because you CAN breed your dog, and have a good dog, doesn't mean you SHOULD breed your dog. But if you DO have a full and rounded responsible breeder program lined up then that's a different 'kettle of fish' entirely.


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## kdlong72 (Jan 14, 2011)

thanks for all your suggestions...ya'll seem to take this breeding and dogs alot more serious than me..i just paid that much for my dog so i could get a good bloodline w/ certified hips to give my kids a great pet to grow up with...i didn't want to look in the newspaper and buy just some gsd and him have hip troubles ect... down the line. i will check w/ my local vets and see if they have a customer that has a nice looking female.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Really!!!???


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

kdlong72 said:


> thanks for all your suggestions...*ya'll seem to take this breeding and dogs alot more serious than me*..i just paid that much for my dog so i could get a good bloodline w/ certified hips to give my kids a great pet to grow up with...i didn't want to look in the newspaper and buy just some gsd and him have hip troubles ect... down the line. *i will check w/ my local vets and see if they have a customer that has a nice looking female.*


Yes we do because there are many GSDs in shelters and rescues just waiting to be adopted into loving homes. Look at the rescue section. There many GSDs being sold on Kiji and CL.You are dealing with lives here. GSDs don't just have 1 puppy in a litter, so you will need to screen potential puppy owners carefully to make sure they go to good homes. Breeding isn't just about putting 2 dogs together, its more than that. You need to seriously think about what you are doing. 

I will just keep my comments to myself on the last sentence. All I will say is if you are going to breed, do it RESPONSIBLY, if you won't do it responsibly DON'T BREED AT ALL.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

kdlong72 said:


> ...ya'll seem to take this breeding and dogs alot more serious than me..


Apparently so.  It's sad that someone who intends to breed their dog DOESN'T take it at all seriously. That's how many of the dogs in shelters end up there, because people take breeding so lightly. Oh well, you're going to do what you're going to do.


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## kdlong72 (Jan 14, 2011)

my dogs bloodline is kato von farmenblinck of germany..some of ya'll may know if this is good or bad ???? and benton is about 20 sw of little rock arkansas.


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## kdlong72 (Jan 14, 2011)

i understand what your saying about the dogs in shelters ect... that is a bad situation, and i love my dog dearly..and i have breed him before w/ my female..and was very picky about who purchased..i had several people that wanted a pup and i told them they were all spoken for, because i didn't think they would take good care of the dog. i stay in contact w/ most of the people who recieved a pup of mine..i had probaly 50 phone calls about pups from friends and family of the people who purchased one of my pups. never breed them again..and i don't care about the money...i gave away more pups than i sold.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

So checked pedigree database. From what I can tell, Kato von Farmenblinck is a son of Kato von Farmenblinck .
Very confusing, and don't see any titles.
Kato von Farmenblinck - German shepherd dog


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> i didn't want to look in the newspaper and buy just some gsd and him have hip troubles ect... down the line.


Please bear in mind that THIS IS EXACTLY what YOU WILL BE PRODUCING if you breed your male, who has no health testing and no independently-judged temperament and working ability with a female who also has no health testing and not titles.

You paid a good deal of money because your breeder put A LOT OF WORK AND MONEY into their breeding stock. Training. Titling. Health testing. Selecting a suitable female that would work with the lines he was looking to breed and complement his lines. That's what you paid for.

If you don't do the same things with the dogs you're planning on mating, then you are NO BETTER by any stretch than the people who randomly mate Dog A with "a nice looking" Dog B and give the pups away to friends/family or sell them in the newspaper. You will be one of the people you yourself would not purchase from. Something to think about.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

kdlong72 said:


> i understand what your saying about the dogs in shelters ect... that is a bad situation, and i love my dog dearly..and i have breed him before w/ my female..and was very picky about who purchased..i had several people that wanted a pup and i told them they were all spoken for, because i didn't think they would take good care of the dog. i stay in contact w/ most of the people who recieved a pup of mine..i had probaly 50 phone calls about pups from friends and family of the people who purchased one of my pups. never breed them again..and i don't care about the money...i gave away more pups than i sold.


But you said you weren't a breeder. You bred your dog before, and now want to breed him again.You are a breeder. 

I have a male and female GSD and I love them very much, and many people tell me they want a pup from them. But is that a reason to breed? No, its not. My dogs are not of the standard, they have not had their hips checked and thy have no titles. And I really don't want to be a breeder, and deal with all the stuff that comes with it. One of my dogs came from a shelter, and the other came from a BYB.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

kdlong72 said:


> thanks for all your suggestions...ya'll seem to take this breeding and dogs alot more serious than me..i just paid that much for my dog so i could get a good bloodline w/ certified hips to give my kids a great pet to grow up with...i didn't want to look in the newspaper and buy just some gsd and him have hip troubles ect... down the line. i will check w/ my local vets and see if they have a customer that has a nice looking female.


Yes - people here DO take breeding dogs seriously - because they love THEIR dogs! They love the Sunday paper dogs bought because they wanted a bargin, who cost them thousands in vet bills, they love the rescues with behavior problems, the abandoned, the unwanted, the high priced imports, the well bred puppies....our hearts break for every dog listed that ends up being euthanized for lack of a home, that ends up euthanized because some one "just wanted a pet" and didn't spend the time researching and bought a pup because it was bred by someone who spent alot of money on a dog and wanted to recoup it by breeding to some dog with conflicting pedigree/characteristics and produced high drive/bad health/poor temperament and they couldn't or wouldn't deal properly with it so dumped it or put it down....

I will tell you a secret! VETS ARE NOT DOG BREEDERS! I spent 4 years working in a very very very good vet school - one of the best - I saw 800 vet students come through - knew lots and lots of them as I met every single one during their first year, plus many of those in the 2nd, 3rd & 4th year when I started.....lots of them knew nothing about dogs....there are many reasons that people end up in small animal practice when they started somewhere else....I know a primarily horse vet who breeds dogs and does some small animal - even does ear cropping/tail docking - she does not certify hips/elbows - bought a couple of pups from Kimbertal - dobes the size of ponies - bought another one for one of her kids - breeds them at random....did the same with Golden Retrievers for years! - and even had a few litters of mutts because her females are not spayed....sure she would gladly say - Hey that client has a GSD - without having a CLUE about the pedigree or even if any health clearances are done - and this is not UNCOMMON among vets.....Clients having pups mean money for a vet clinic....take a litter in for first shots....come out quite a few hundred poorer....my own vet for repro (board certified) always can direct a prospective buyer to almost any breed. But she has been known to call me about someone who wants to breed their GSD - and ask me to talk them out of it as often as for a recommendation for a stud dog....

Another observation is that NO ONE breeding seriously breeds a dog with a bad pedigree!!! If you imported or bought an imported puppy, I am sure his pedigree is "good" and full of "champions (????)" If imported directly - then he could not have been produced UNLESS the parents had titles/certifications....if from a responsible kennel who breeds European lines, they  may have been one who chose to follow the SV breeding requirements to some extent...thus they can justify asking a larger price for their dog. But price follows value - pups from a dog with no titles/awards do not bring a high price and people who have bought a female with 'good' credentials do not want to have to sell her pups at $300-500 because the sire of those pups has no credentials...even people with females with nothing in front or behind their name want to breed to a male with something to recommend the pups! 

Right now, a lady who used to live near me, bought a pup imported in utero (at 4 months coz the breeder was not real sucessful in selling the litter and let her have it for $500 - on full registration of course!), worked it a bit (nice dog, very good pedigree - if worked, could have been titled IMO) and of course NOW - wants to breed it - no OFAs ("she's fine - has no problems") and since I found the pup for her, asked me to recommend a Schh3 male with "correct linebreeding" for the litter .......sigh......because she loves her and wants a pup like her....and if the sire has Schh3 she can sell the ones she "does not keep to schutzhund homes for $1000 each because the sire is a schutzhund dog".....


As someone says - if you do find a female and breed your male to him, it is likely to be an uncertified, uncleared (hips/elbows) female and the pups are the property of the owner of the female...they will likely be sold via the Sunday paper or Craigs list or greensheet or scraps of paper at the grocery/feed store with little phone number tabs....so there are the progeny of your beloved dog who knows where.....

AND THAT IS WHY EVERYONE IS CONCERNED AND TAKES IT SERIOUSLY

Lee


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

kdlong72 said:


> my dogs bloodline is kato von farmenblinck of germany..some of ya'll may know if this is good or bad ???? and benton is about 20 sw of little rock arkansas.


Could you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read:


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

And then return here with questions about how to become one of the breeders along those lines? 

LOVED the suggestion to recommend going back to your original breeder! If you love your dog so much (and that's a good thing  ) that means YOU picked a good breeder originally and should continue to support them and work with their breeding program/puppies...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

kdlong72 said:


> my dogs bloodline is kato von farmenblinck of germany..some of ya'll may know if this is good or bad ???? and benton is about 20 sw of little rock arkansas.


I think there are two reasons people are serious about breeding. 

1. Trying to get a dog that is temperamentally sound and as healthy as possible that is a good example of the breed in working ability and nerve - not by chance, but by choice

2. The idea that people are producing puppies that will produce puppies that will produce puppies and that somewhere along that line, these dogs (probably not as puppies but there are litters dumped at shelters) will end up being killed in a shelter - by heartstick, by gas, or just regular killin' because no one wants them. And the less that they have going for them health and temperament wise, the more likely they are going to be killed. Or they go to people who are not screened (municipal shelters cannot do much) and live a life worse than death. 

Where you are at it is an especially big problem:
Animal shelter overcrowding - FOX16.com Little Rock, AR
Little Rock Animal Services
They get something like 400 dogs a month in the shelter. 
Some of them:
Our Pet List - Powered by Petfinder.com


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