# Life jackets for GSD



## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

We are planning on going to Algonquin park for some daytime canoeing in the summer.  Hope Dakota can sit still, at 77 lbs she could sure tip it. We alos have a small Zodiac which we haven't used in years but would like to start again. My husband thinks she does not need one, but he is going to lose this battle. I'm not a strong swimmer and always wear a lifejacket. I want my pup protected too.

I have a 10% discount from a store for 5 weeks as my dog is in agility classes, so I want to make the purchase soon.

What lifevest would you recommend. She has a 31" girth and in 9 1/2 mths old so if I could I would like to buy just one.


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## sleachy (Aug 10, 2001)

I have a K9 Float Coat from Ruff Wear. I bought it many years ago, it has helped several dogs learn to swim, and has held up beautifully. They make 2 different kinds now...
Ruff Wear life jackets 

Toozer in her Float Coat:


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

Depending on where you are canoeing, it could be a lifesaver. If you are in a stream with some current, you may end up swimming longer than you thought in a tip over. Or how about far out on a lake? I would recommend it.


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

I love the ones we got from West Marine. Good prices too!

Here's Sasha in hers:



















When we went back to get Penny one we looked for a large and some of the larges had the padding under the neck and some didn't- weird. Look for the one with the padding in that area as it helps support the head.


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## Sherush (Jan 12, 2008)

Bought ours at Petsmart. Worked great and Jesse went on Zodiac boat to Flower Pot Island in Tobermory last summer.


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## Rügen (Mar 19, 2008)

I love Super Soft vests:
http://futurepet.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=TEX25240

I take my dogs boating A LOT over the summer months, including a yearly trip to Lake Powell. They swim comfortably in these vests and have never been chaffed. They are CHEEP ($15-$20) and durable (going on three years with the same vest). I get the ones without the handle for safety reasons, it just looks like a hazard. The vest straps are great for pulling them onboard. Sorry for the large photo size. 


Warning: your pup may think you've lost your mind when you first try on the vest!










But after a few minutes they will love it


















You can see here how nicely it fits around the chest. The size guidelines on the website are right on and they are adjustable. 


















Swimming is easy in either vest- after this trip my golden smelled soooo bad after wearing the traditional style vest. It trapped in his body heat, but rolling in fish guts didn't help.
I hope you enjoy your trip... I'm dying to get in the water as you can probably tell from the photo overload!


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

What lifevest would I recommend; none. I live in a flood plain, and over the past three years my dog Timber and I have had to go in and via a small Jon Boat several times. This is one of those times when I wish I had pictures to post. Logs, lawn chairs, all types of things floating by. Now in heavy current, if the vest got caught on one of those large logs, it might cost Timber his life. The real kicker is my darn dog loves swimming in the flooded waters. 

Someone mentioned buying a vest to teach their dog how to swim. I think dogs know how to swim; am I wrong.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

My BF and I love to canoe and canoe camp in the St. Regis area and we are teaching Phoenix to lay down in the canoe. (super hyper dog....has been loooooong teaching period) I got Phoenix the Ruffwear PFD and it works great. The handle is nice to have when he swims beside the canoe.



> Originally Posted By: Timber1Someone mentioned buying a vest to teach their dog how to swim. I think dogs know how to swim; am I wrong.


You are wrong. I had to teach Phoenix how to swim. He really had no clue and was very timid about getting in up to his chest. It took me luring him deeper w/ a toy to get him where I could drag him to where his feet didn't touch. From there, I would hold him up and he learned to doggie paddle. Once he got the hang of it, he couldn't wait to go swimming. I didn't teach Dakota to swim, but when you saw him in the water...it wasn't pretty.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I have the Ruffwear K9 Float Coat, it is very well made. I had one for my terrier Pooch because he was front-heavy and without a lifejacket he would struggle to keep his front end and head out of the water and end up overcompensating and bringing his front legs way out of the water and splashing like crazy. With the life vest he swam normally. My Golden didn't use a life vest, the closest thing for her was a neoprene hunting dog water vest I used for her, it provided some buoyancy but not a huge amount.
I recently bought a Float Coat for Bianca because Ruffwear had them on sale but I haven't used it yet.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Caras. I like the price on this one, plus I like how simple it is. I was worried about the heat factor too with the Ruff wear ones. The white ones would be cooler. Sometimes we can paddle for hours.

Most of the time we canoe close to shore, but the odd times we do cut across a small lake.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1What lifevest would I recommend; none. I live in a flood plain, and over the past three years my dog Timber and I have had to go in and via a small Jon Boat several times. This is one of those times when I wish I had pictures to post. Logs, lawn chairs, all types of things floating by. Now in heavy current, if the vest got caught on one of those large logs, it might cost Timber his life. The real kicker is my darn dog loves swimming in the flooded waters.


I agree in situations like that. I will not be in a canoe in that environment though. Nice calm lakes and very slow moving streams are my speed. I'm concerned about a middle of the lake tip over. If shore is close by, I don't think I will put a life jacket on her.


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## Rügen (Mar 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: MaryWCaras. I like the price on this one, plus I like how simple it is. I was worried about the heat factor too with the Ruff wear ones. The white ones would be cooler. Sometimes we can paddle for hours.
> 
> Most of the time we canoe close to shore, but the odd times we do cut across a small lake.


My pups live in these vests on the lake. It makes pulling them into the boat a breeze. I think it would work well for you. It's easy to pull on and off which would be important in a small canoe. You're very right- it's easier for them to dry off since their backs are not covered and they stay cool with the design. The first vest I got was given to me by a boat dealer (and close friend) who swears by them. She uses them for her small pooches too. I couldn't believe the price, I firmly believe you get what you pay for, but this seems to be the exception. I'm still waiting for it to prove me wrong, though even if it crumbled today it would have been well worth the $15!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Even at a lake, unless your dog is on a leash (with a harness), she should have a life jacket on. She can easily swim out into the lake faster than you realize, and get tired out there. Until she has experience at lakes (and you are absolutely positive of her recall), go with a life jacket. Tired dogs are at risk for drowning

I agree with Timber. Dogs shouldn't be allowed to swim in fast-moving currents. I'd add that dogs shouldn't be allowed to swim in any moving water that is cold as well. We see too many drownings of *people* here in WA. They don't anticipate how fast the water actually is. They certainly don't understand how quickly cold water disables them. 

ANY time there is moving water and you're going to let your dog go in more than up to his toes, a dog should have a life jacket (and be on a leash). 

Again, even if your dog is playing on the shore, a PFD is a good idea. If you accidentally toss his ball into the water, or he sees a deer on the other side of the river, he may go in without any regard to the current. Most dogs don't understand the risk of moving water. And most people (unless they're kayakers or fly-fishers) don't understand undercurrents. That wide mild river may be a torrent of current underneath. Play it safe. 

Finally, no, not all dogs can swim. My dogs' swim therapist has quite a few clients, including newfs and labs, who were there simply to learn to swim. We assume it's an innate skill. But some dogs panic in water and sink like rocks.









A life vest is one of the best investments we can make if we live near (or vacation near) water. Better to wonder if we really need it, than to wonder if a PFD would have saved our dog's life.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I echo the leash and harness. Teagan is a great swimmer, as is Neb, but they both swim with leashes and harness and if they're really swimming, I swim with them. 

Luc does not know how to swim. He tries to swim on top of it and starts to panic (I tried to do 'intro to swimming' with him at the dog pool; we went slow, but Luc and water aren't friends, though he was very brave Easter weekend when we were backpacking in Killarney Prov. Park - he actually went across a couple of high creeks without being prompted (leashed of course, and he was crossing on stuff, but still got wet....one he fell in but he stayed pretty calm) (and got wet!), which he's never done before - low creeks, fine, but higher water crossings were a first for him to do voluntarily). 

Mary, Toronto has 2 dog pools....you could take Dakota to one of them and get her used to swimming if you want.
....I would recommend Fit Dogs. They have a nice pool, you're the only one there, and for a small extra fee you can have staff help teach your dog to swim. They have lifejackets, lots of toys, and are really positive. You can get in with the dog and there's a nice ramp. I take Teagan there for rehab sometimes (not much lately) and it's not badly priced. 
It would be pretty easy to get to from the QEW/Gardiner/DVP, as it's at Dundas and Broadview.

Just a thought!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Jarn, that's what I do. From the time my dogs are wee pups, I take them to a dog pool and they get their toes wet. They swim with a trainer AND me AND our adult dogs and lots of toys (and teeny foam floaty things to help keep them from sinking until all limbs move in the same direction). As adults, they're great swimmers. But it's because like everything else in their lives, they've been socialized to swimming. 

That's a great suggestion for Mary.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Well, that's what I did with Neb, except in lakes b/c it was summer - he had a Ruffwear lifejacket, the smallest one, and at the start he'd still fall out of it, so we did a lot of swimming together where I was guiding him from underneath. But he got into it pretty quickly.

Teagan was already swimmer when I got her. 

I don't expect Luc will ever like water or be a swimmer, it's more working with him to make those times we encounter water positive. Neb has gone on a canoe trip, but I don't expect Luc ever will (and it was when Neb still didn't fit his lifejacket and kept wriggling out of it, which I didn't find out until the first day of the trip....whoops! - so he was leashed in the canoe. He was about 12 weeks old, and we'd already done shallow water stuff without the lifejacket, but all was fine for the trip, thank goodness. I really wouldn't do a trip again making the assumption the jacket fit.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Ok folks, all dogs are different. Timber was raised with two competitive labs and as part of their training the dogs will swim for miles behind my son's boat. 

Putting a life vest on a dog is like doing that with an adult that is a good swimmer. You learn little and that is the same with the dog. LOL will they have it on for life, never being allowed to swim free of restrictions and make decisions on their own. 

Could something bad happen, of course. So maybe those that favor PFD's should simply keep their dogs away from water.

I can just picture labs or chessies out hunting in cold weather and water, with their little life jackets on. Guess what, the GSD can handle this type of weather and water as good as the labs and chessies.

The one exception is ice out time. If a dog breaks through ice and there is any current the chances of survival are minimal. In this case a PFD might save the dog. Unfortunately we have had a few people that have let their dogs out onto thin ice, and the dogs drowned.

I suspect most, if not all of us would never do anything that stupid.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: Putting a life vest on a dog is like doing that with an adult that is a good swimmer. You learn little and that is the same with the dog. LOL will they have it on for life, never being allowed to swim free of restrictions and make decisions on their own.
> 
> Could something bad happen, of course. So maybe those that favor PFD's should simply keep their dogs away from water.


I think there's a big difference in putting a lifevest on a dog in a boat and use of a lifevest during all swimming. Grace is an extremely strong swimmer - she swims in rivers, lakes, the ocean etc, and has never had an issue nor does she wear a vest. However, when we took her canoeing last fall I really wished we'd had one for her (we only had one for Hector) and if we go back, we will make sure we have vests on both dogs. 

I too am a strong swimmer, I have even taken lifesaving classes, but I still wear a life vest in a boat. I sure as heck wear a vest when I'm white water canoing or rafting. 

There's a big difference in falling out of a boat and in walking off the beach into the water. When you fall out of a boat or the boat capsizes a dog or person could hit their head on the way in, they could wind up falling out into water that is too rough or too far from land and not water they'd ever voluntarily have chosen to swim in. So I think life vests are a good idea around any water for dogs (or children) who can't swim, but also a good idea for those who _can_ swim when there's the possibility of accidently winding up in the water without control over how or when that happens, which is pretty much any boating situation.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I agree with Pupresq's boat point. There are dangers of hitting a head on the boat, or rocks, in canoeing, particularly if there is white water or fast moving water, which make it prudent to wear a lifejacket regardless of the swimming level. 

And canoes are more easily tipped than a motorboat or fishing boat, for instance. 

It is b/c of the white/fast moving water danger that I would rather mine wear lifejackets while canoeing. 

Have I ever put a lifejacket on for Teagan or Neb swimming in a lake? No, b/c that's an entirely different matter. 

Edit: Neb actually fell out of the boat on the canoe trip last summer, in a fast-moving river in Temagami. Wilderness canoeing you have to be more careful. I had his leash attached to me, and I was able to grab him by the harness, but our boat shot right past him and the current was definitely too strong for him. Luckily I was able to see that he was falling and while I was able to prevent it, he was only a few seconds in the water. But it scared me, to think if he hadn't been attached. I cursed that his lifejacket didn't fit him then, just as I was so relieved he was attached to me and I saw him fall (I was keeping a paranoid eye on him).


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

This is bad, but gratitious shots of Neb on a canoe trip at 12 weeks old (sans lifejacket, eek)....
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=90073&id=630190844&l=561afdcfcf










Thread hijack over!


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1Putting a life vest on a dog is like doing that with an adult that is a good swimmer. You learn little and that is the same with the dog. LOL will they have it on for life, never being allowed to swim free of restrictions and make decisions on their own.
> 
> Could something bad happen, of course. So maybe those that favor PFD's should simply keep their dogs away from water.
> 
> I can just picture labs or chessies out hunting in cold weather and water, with their little life jackets on. Guess what, the GSD can handle this type of weather and water as good as the labs and chessies.


I'm not talking about a "romp" in the water. Like pupresq and jarn have said, we are talking about situations where the dog isn't a few feet away from the shore. Where we go canoeing, the shore line could be a LONG way away. Phoenix is a strong swimmer, but am I willing to take a chance w/ HIS LIFE that he can make it to the shore? And like it has been said, when a canoe capsizes, crap falls out and those in the canoe can get injured by the canoe itself, including the dog.... We take Phoenix to Lake Champlain and lakes around my house to romp in the water w/o his PFD b/c I know when he's getting tired and can end all activities b/f he gets overtired.


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: jarnThis is bad, but gratitious shots of Neb on a canoe trip at 12 weeks old (sans lifejacket, eek)....
> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=90073&id=630190844&l=561afdcfcf
> 
> 
> ...


Hijack worth it...great shots! Neb sure is a cutie...


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Please, let our dogs learn there limits.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1
> I can just picture labs or chessies out hunting in cold weather and water, with their little life jackets on. Guess what, the GSD can handle this type of weather and water as good as the labs and chessies.


Actually some people do use floatation vests for their hunting dogs... They actually make neoprene vests for hunting dogs to use which include floatation panels. They do double duty, keeping the dog warm in cold water and helping them to stay afloat. I have a neoprene vest I used with my Golden when swimming in cold water, it was not one of the vests with the buoyancy panels but it did provide some extra buoyancy due to the neoprene material.

Here's a link to the floatation vest:

Neoprene Flotation Vest


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: Please, let our dogs learn there limits.










I don't know about your dog but mine can't swim if she's unconscious. There's no learning to be done there. Wearing a PFD is a part of boat safety for both people and dogs. There really is a big difference in being thrown from a boat or a boat tipping and a dog voluntarily getting in for a swim. 

I don't know if you've done much canoing but they're pretty easy to tip over and once they're tipped, it's not that easy to get them righted and get everything back in. We had to do just that as part of one of the safety classes I took and even in a swimming pool with everything staged, it was not an easy task. Dogs throwng from boats can get injured, caught in undertows, snagged in debris etc. If we're in a boating accident I want the dogs to have every chance to stay afloat while I'm trying to get us back together. I grew up white water canoing and I'm a good swimmer, but I wear a life jacket on the water. I want the safe thing for my dogs.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: pupresq
> 
> 
> > Quote: Please, let our dogs learn there limits.
> ...


Exactly.

And I just googled a jon boat....there is a BIG difference in the kind of boats we're talking about and the stability. And in white water, which is often rocky, the risks of injury if the boat flips. There's also a big difference between wilderness trips where you are days away from other people or help. 

It's not a matter of letting dogs learn their limits.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

And even if the OP isn't going to be on white water, I think dogs in canoes should wear life jackets. There are just too many things that can go wrong - especially since even having the dog on board is going to make you that much more easily tipped.

People really seem to underestimate water hazards. We had a tragedy here in KY just this spring with a group of people kayaking. They were on a river but it was wide and slow, not technically difficult. A guy rolled and couldn't get himself righted and he drowned. The folks who reviewed the accident said that had he been wearing a life jacket he would have been fine.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

That's very true. And strong currents can exist independently of whitewater. 

Up here as well, there can also be very big, long lakes that whip up serious wind and waves. 

I tend to avoid Algonquin b/c I prefer more wilderness areas, but I have been there and have friends who go there, and there are several lakes there that can be very problematic in terms of the wind, and waves. Which in smaller, less stable craft is something that any responsible canoeist should pay attention to. I have a tonne of canoe experience including dangerous wave conditions because I grew up canoeing on Georgian Bay and some of the major feeding rivers, and it's something I always monitor, but waves can be even worse on the long inland lakes, particularly if they're shallow. Not sure where the OP is going to be in Algonquin but it's just basic safety.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: pupresq
> People really seem to underestimate water hazards. We had a tragedy here in KY just this spring with a group of people kayaking. They were on a river but it was wide and slow, not technically difficult. A guy rolled and couldn't get himself righted and he drowned. The folks who reviewed the accident said that had he been wearing a life jacket he would have been fine.


He didn't just pull out of the kayak entirely? That is a tragedy. But, to the point.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: jarn
> Have I ever put a lifejacket on for Teagan or Neb swimming in a lake? No, b/c that's an entirely different matter.


I did use a lifejacket for my terrier when swimming in lakes or any other body of water. Without the lifejacket he would struggle and waste a lot of energy quickly. He was built with a wide chest and head, very muscular wide front end compared to the back (possibly part Bulldog) and so when he swam his front end would dip lower in the water and make it difficult for him to keep his head above the water. To keep his head up he had to paddle much harder with his front legs and he'd also lift them way out of the water to try to compensate, which takes a lot of effort. Sometimes he'd overcompensate and lift his front legs WAY out of the water and end up splashing like crazy. Being a terrier this did not slow him down or stop him from wanting to swim so the options were either keep him on a leash to force him to stay out of the water, or have him wear a life vest. With the life vest on he swam normally with no struggling to keep his head out of the water and he didn't tire as quickly so he was able to get more exercise and have fun for longer. This was especially good for him since he has hip dysplasia and the low-impact swimming was much safer and better for him than other forms of exercise.

Like many terriers, he didn't know he HAD limits so I had to limit things for him. If I didn't limit it for him, he would probably have kept swimming until he passed out, especially if I kept throwing a toy for him to fetch-- he would chase a ball until he dropped on land or water, did not know the word stop. The only way to stop him was to hide the ball, because if you stopped throwing it for him he would just use his mouth and feet to "throw" the ball for himself.

Another reason the life vest was good-- If I let him play with a ball in the water he sometimes would have trouble getting ahold of the ball in the water. He would lunge for it and try to grab it, and the ball would squirt out of his mouth or he would accidentally push it forward with his mouth instead of getting a grip on it. When this happened he would keep swimming after the ball until he caught it. Sometimes he would keep pushing it with his mouth when he tried to lunge for it and he would just keep trying and trying to grab it-- being a terrier he would NOT give up on it, and would tire himself to exhaustion trying to reach it if he was allowed.

I just remembered I have some more photos of him with his vest on... These were from a "dog swim" event we went to at a local pool.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: Up here as well, there can also be very big, long lakes that whip up serious wind and waves.


Totally agree! Having grown up on rivers, when we took the canoe to Land Between the Lakes last fall I grossly underestimated just how choppy it could get out on the lake. Somehow I was thinking flat water equaled easy. Actually the day we took the canoe out it wasn't bad but I wished we'd had a vest for Grace and vowed not to do it again without one. But overnight there was a lot of wind and a temp shift and by the next day we didn't feel safe taking the canoe out at all, vests or no vests. It's just not that hard to swamp a canoe! 

As far as the kayaker, I'm not sure quite what happened. It seems to have been one of those freak things. He was upright and fine, witnesses saw him turn and go under, and he never came back up. By the time they could get to him he was dead. 

I know precious few experienced kayakers or canoists who ever go out on the water without wearing a life jacket. Sort of like you nearly always see professional bikers wearing helmets. Not wearing the appropriate safety equipment tends to be a mark of newbies and folks with less experience. Inexperience that can end up costing them.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: pupresq
> 
> 
> > Quote: Up here as well, there can also be very big, long lakes that whip up serious wind and waves.
> ...


Oh yeah I didn't even think about that when writing my other reply. When I take my dogs swimming it is most often in Lake Michigan either here in Chicago, or sometimes in MI or IN.

Lake Michigan can develop very large waves (even near the beach) suddenly and can also produce riptides or undertows. Swimmers have been swept out by strong currents or drowned due to large waves at Lake Michigan beaches. I am not just talking about little kids here either, teens and adults as well. 

The water in Lake Michigan can also be very cold, which can lower a person or dog's body temperature and sap their strength more quickly while swimming. The water temperature doesn't usually get above 50's until mid-summer, and currents and weather changes can drop it down even then.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Sorry my post got cut off...

Even if you are a strong swimmer, or your dog is, cold water can be hazardous and the "limit" of the amount of swimming that can safely be done can be a lot lower than normal...meaning your dog may tire more quickly than they expect if they are swimming in cold water, and this can be dangerous if they (or you) don't realize that they are tiring more quickly.

Here is a quote from the United States Search and Rescue Task Force page on cold water survival (for humans):



> Quote:<Cold water> is estimated to be around and under the temperature of 70 degrees. However, this will vary in each case due to the specific circumstances and physical condition of the person involved.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> 
> I know precious few experienced kayakers or canoists who ever go out on the water without wearing a life jacket. Sort of like you nearly always see professional bikers wearing helmets.


All the whitewater kayakers I know wear helmets too. I always did. Plus an appropriately rated PFD. Plus, most never boated without a buddy. 

Until you've been on a river in a kayak or canoe, it's hard to imagine how dangerous they are. Rocks, strainers, buried hazards you can't see from the surface. A kayaker who rolls can easily hit his head on something under the surface. Without a helmet and/or buddy watching him and ready to rescue, he's a goner. 

I wouldn't do that to my dogs. They're all excellent swimmers, but they haven't read the river guides for the local rivers for this year.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

I vote for the type Cara has "the super soft".

I have 1 of those for my dogs and love it! love it much better then the full body lenght style ones.


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## k9sarneko (Jan 31, 2007)

I like the newer model of the outward hound life vest, I have the old one also and its a little cheezy but the new model is well made. It has a nice rescue handle and even has a collar under the head that helps keep the head above water if the dog becomes tired. 

Down here we get quite a few cases that require significant boat work and it is not very restrictive at all. I also have the neoprene vest with floatations but only use that for warmth in winter under her other floatation vest. The combination worked very well during a search last winter. 

The only negative is that the D ring attached to the vest is a little cheesy, it is made of plastic and I wish it was metal. But the rest is well made with velcro and locking straps under the belly and chest region which makes it very adjustable to all my dogs.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I always put a harness or PFD on my dogs when they go in the boat, more so that I have a handle to help hold them afloat if they fall out. The lake where we go is relatively small and we are rarely in the middle, even if we are a healthy dog could swim to shore. But if the dog fell out I would hold them up by the handle while DH paddled us in.

Our dog PFD is nice but it fits kind of weird on my deep chested dogs. When we took Coke for the first time we just used a Ruffwear which has two belly straps and a big handle, and we kept him leashed.









I do not wear a PFD myself but always have more than enough along, even in the canoe or kayak. We use Type 3 which are not "life" vests (meaning if you're knocked out or pass outl, you'd still die...the only real "life" vest is one that automatically holds the head up out of the water) so there's no advantage to having them on (ie, if we get knocked out even with the vest on we're in trouble). A child should always have a Type 1 or 2 but most of the kids we see on the lake don't. I don't think enough people even know the difference.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

What Lies said about the handle is just as important as actually having them in a jacket - if not more important.

We used to have a platform on the back of our boat that sat about 6" out of the water. It's much easier to pull a soaking wet 80lb dog out of the water with a handle. We had a ladder but one of the dogs couldn't be taught to climb it - course it was the dog who LOVED to swim.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: jarnThat's very true. And strong currents can exist independently of whitewater.
> 
> Up here as well, there can also be very big, long lakes that whip up serious wind and waves.
> 
> I tend to avoid Algonquin b/c I prefer more wilderness areas, but I have been there and have friends who go there, and there are several lakes there that can be very problematic in terms of the wind, and waves. Which in smaller, less stable craft is something that any responsible canoeist should pay attention to. I have a tonne of canoe experience including dangerous wave conditions because I grew up canoeing on Georgian Bay and some of the major feeding rivers, and it's something I always monitor, but waves can be even worse on the long inland lakes, particularly if they're shallow. Not sure where the OP is going to be in Algonquin but it's just basic safety.


Jarn. I'm a fair weather canoer. We are not tripping, but small day trips only. We stick to the small lakes like Pog Lake and the river by Lake of Two Rivers, in Algonquin Park and Cyprus Lake in Tobermory. This is our style.

I've been on on a tripping adventure from H*** on the French River with white caps which I will never allow myself to get in that position again. On this trip our group seperated with me and my husband opting out (my request) and staying put in our camp site, while part of the group continuted onwards to Gerogian Bay. We went w/o kids or a dog. Although no one went over, the danger was very real. On our way home the river was a sheet of glass and we had a great relaxing paddle out.

Murphy, our past dog was a great lover of the canoe. She was 50 lbs max and would sit very calmly in the middle and watch the world go by. Dakota is very much an immature 9 month old puppy who is 77 lbs. Murphy would never cause the canoe to tip, Dakota I'm not sure. 

I will be buying a life vest for her.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I've never been to Cyprus Lake! I always mean to go and then something comes up. I take it it's nice? I've hiked around that part of the Peninsula but not right there. 

I was just thinking - do you guys have a canoe, or are you renting? 

We taught a friend's dog to canoe (he had a solid 'sit' and 'down') by going down to the waterfront (Lake Ontario) and just playing around by the shore. He did really well (though when we went on a trip - in Algonquin, actually - he jumped out once into reeds (he must've thought they were grass, he was so surprised)).


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

What you posted regarding cold water temps relates to humans, not the German Shepherd dog. LOL Timber will voluntarily go out in swim in water just after the ice break up. Actually, he seems to love it.

I guess I do not understand what your post has to do with the GSD.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

My point was that cold water can sap body heat (yes, even in dogs-- if they're soaked to the skin their fur is not helping the same extent as it would do when dry) and this can result in them tiring more quickly than they would otherwise, and their "limit" might be a lot less than it would be in other situations.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

The precise response I anticipated. But do you have any idea how well the GSD does in cold watwwr, of course not. You have nver hunted, trapped or fished with the breed. They are remkable.

As for the folks that do the canoe trips, on wild rivers with tons and current. I cannot disagree because I have no experience on these types of trips.

As for the folks that put the vest on when you walk your dog to the lake, no matter how large, gimme a break. The GSD has been with the military, from defending Alaska to Iragi. So LOL, why a life vest in a lake.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1The precise response I anticipated. But do you have any idea how well the GSD does in cold watwwr, of course not.


No, I don't-- and I don't want to find out my dogs' "limit" when they're swimming and the waves suddenly increase in Lake Michigan, or they go out a little too far and get caught in a strong current.


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## Rügen (Mar 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1As for the folks that put the vest on when you walk your dog to the lake, no matter how large, gimme a break. The GSD has been with the military, from defending Alaska to Iragi. So LOL, why a life vest in a lake.


I'm concerned with their safety. I make them wear PFDs while boating in case of an accident. Two people died on Saturday in Lake Powell and two more are still missing. If they had been wearing a life vest they would have lived. 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705299949/2-dead-2-missing-in-Lake-Powell-accident.html


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1
> As for the folks that put the vest on when you walk your dog to the lake, no matter how large, gimme a break. The GSD has been with the military, from defending Alaska to Iragi. So LOL, why a life vest in a lake.


Because they are DOGS and at times their drive overrides their common sense!

For example, my uncle's dog is a working retriever. We thought it would be funny to send her out to retrieve.....nothing. Funny, until we realized the dog will swim until she drowns from exhaustion because she cannot find what she is supposedly retrieving. This is a dog that jogs 5 miles a day and can swim for hours, but we've had to paddle out and rescue her b/c her head was going under.

They don't always know to just swim to shore.

I don't put the PFD on my dogs but I want them to have a handle if they are in the boat. My uncle's dog, also a working retriever who swims almost every day, fell off a dock and got tangled in something, so all her swimming abilities did her no good because she could keep her head up. It was difficult saving her, and now they say she will always have a handle on when they are out on the water.

So if you are miles from shore in Lake Michigan and your dog falls in, how exactly are you going to lift a naked, wet, 70lbs dog back into your boat?


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

How many dogs are any of you personally aware of that died, and could have been saved because of PFD's. My answer is none with one exception. When the ice is breaking up on a river or lake, and a person is dumb enough to allow their dog on that ice, once they fall through they are dead. A PFD might have saved a dog in this case. 

Two, in my neighborhood have died after falling through the ice and going under it.


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

There are obviously two (or more) sides to this and I believe everyone is fully aware that you won't consider using one. Great, but the OP was about suggestions for lifejackets so why not let those who would use them make the suggestions and leave the debate for another thread. 

I haven't had a PFD on my dogs yet as we usually are walking to the water from shore. But I would seriously consider it if we were to be out on a boat in the bay here or a large lake-including the lake I let them swim without one from shore. So I'm also interested in what folks are using.

Maybe for this one, you might listen to your own post from another thread today:


> Originally Posted By: Timber1 As an old friend and dog trainer told me. At some point, no matter how great a person's rep, you just need to say whatever and move on.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well Timber, can't say I know anyone that's died from being ejected from a car for not wearing a seat belt, or not putting any swimmies on their toddler, or cracking their head open in a biking accident, but sealt belts, swimmies, and bike helmets all seem like pretty good ideas to me.

If you have an alternative for lifting a soaking wet German shepherd out of the water into and boat, I'm all ears...


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Lies, well spoken like someone who has hauled a soaking wet dog out of the water! It's like Mom always said, better safe than sorry.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:
> How many dogs are any of you personally aware of that died, and could have been saved because of PFD's.


My GSD came very close. 

We were playing an impromptu game of fetch at the edge of a river. Dh tossed a stick. Camper didn't see where that stick landed; he saw, instead, a larger stick in the river, which was wide and seemingly slow moving. He dove in after the stick.

There was an undercurrent. He started to be pulled downstream. He looked back at me, his eyes HUGE in fear. I ran as fast as I could into the river and threw myself on top of him. I was wearing jeans, shoes, a gore tex jacket. I could fell the river pulling me as well. Fortunately, Dh (who has probably never run so fast in all of his life to get to us) was right behind me and grabbed the back of my jacket. I had my arms around Camper. 

Dh had planted his feet well before he grabbed me and somehow, we managed to get our very heavy dripping wet, terrified dog to shore. 

I almost lost my dog. This isn't a story I'm proud to tell because I was stupid. I should have had him on a harness and leash like I always did. But we weren't planning on letting the kids go into the river at all. The river was so wide and seemed to be barely moving. I forgot my training -- that when you read a river, you're only reading what you can see. 

In this situation, had he been wearing his PFD, it would not have been so dire. He could have swam to shore on his own. Or, I would have had more time to get to him. I risked my own life by diving on him as I did. 

The water was very cold, as it usually is. It slows your physical abilities and your mental reactions. Camper was an athletic dog and a great swimmer. But he didn't react at all. He was stunned. 

I believe it's best to wonder if your dog needs a PFD than to wonder if a PFD could have saved his life. In my case, I know it would have. I was incredibly lucky that the water wasn't just a bit colder, that I was standing where I was and able to get to him in time, and that Dh was able to get to us in time. I will NEVER make that mistake again. 

Ultimately, if you want to take risks with your dogs, that's your decision. But some of us have experiences that make us far more cautious. The OP asked a reasonable question. As Samuel said, there are two sides depending on what you've lived.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinaLies, well spoken like someone who has hauled a soaking wet dog out of the water! It's like Mom always said, better safe than sorry.


No kidding. It's hard enough to help a person, and they have common sense plus you can tell them how to help (ie, "hey, don't keep flailing all your legs everywhere!").

Honestly I don't know that I'd even be able to pull one of my boys out without tipping or falling in myself, but like I've said enough times now, at least with a handle you can assist in holding the dog up, or prevent the dog from swimming even further into danger.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I know quite a few people who died when they fell out of boats and weren't wearing pdfs. When I have my dogs in the kayak with me I stay close to shore and I don't take them out on really choppy days for obvious reasons! 

My Massie was the strongest swimmer I've ever seen. She could handle almost anything but one day about 20 years ago I was bouldering in New Mexico and she decided to swim instead of climb the boulders. Problem was there was a current with rapids and she was moving towards them very quickly!







I screamed at her to swim into me and she made it in but it was really scary. I have no doubt that another dog would have gone right over! That taught me to be much more careful about where I allowed her to swim! No point in taking chances when it's your dog's life at stake! 

If I were taking my dog on a trip in a boat I would get a pdf for her or him. There's no reason not to!


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIf I were taking my dog on a trip in a boat I would get a pdf for her or him. There's no reason not to!


Other than the guy factor - I can still hear his voice so many years later 'Take that off my dog before someone sees him.' I was like since when is Luther YOUR dog? YOUR dog isn't wearing a lifejacket becuase YOU won't buy him one. YOUR dog is the idiot who jumps off the back of the boat all the time...


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

> Quote:As for the folks that put the vest on when you walk your dog to the lake, no matter how large, gimme a break. The GSD has been with the military, from defending Alaska to Iragi. So LOL, why a life vest in a lake.



Hey my mom's GSD went 1 time into the Long Island sound and went a bit too far as the tide was going out, and it started to take her out with it, the look of panic on her face because she had a hard time fighting the current made me realize that while they are dogs and can swim better then us they too still can get tired when in the water. 

(Couple that with owning breeds like Boxers that can have a hard time swimming I always put a vest on my dogs when we hang by the water)


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

My rule of thumb is that if I'm wearing a life jacket, Grace is wearing a life jacket. And if it's a dog that can't swim, like our ChiPom Hector, then in any situation where a child would be wearing a life jacket, he is too. 

I do think I'm going to invest in one of the ones on this thread. There seem to be better options than what we've got currently. Though he does look quite dashing



















Actually, even if Hector could swim, I'd still have him in a life jacket. He's small and brown and it would be so easy to lose him in the water. Grace didn't have a PFD for that trip but she will from now on. Thanks to the OP for starting this thread! I've been meaning to order something and it's very handy to see the different models and hear the feedback.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarina
> 
> 
> BowWowMeow said:
> ...


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## sleachy (Aug 10, 2001)

*Re: Life jacket that keeps dogs head above water*

The problem with all of the life jackets posted here (including the RuffWear that I recommended) is that none of them will keep the dogs head above water if the dog is unconscious.

On another forum, one person was searching for a life jacket that would make it safer for his dog who has seizures (they were scared to let him swim for fear he would have one in the lake and would drown). Someone recommended this:
Critters Inflatable Pet Life Jacket 

According to the website, it's fully automatic or can be changed so that it is controlled manually!


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## mattbaker (Apr 2, 2020)

Caledon said:


> We are planning on going to Algonquin park for some daytime canoeing in the summer. Hope Dakota can sit still, at 77 lbs she could sure tip it. We alos have a small Zodiac which we haven't used in years but would like to start again. My husband thinks she does not need one, but he is going to lose this battle. I'm not a strong swimmer and always wear a lifejacket. I want my pup protected too.
> 
> I have a 10% discount from a store for 5 weeks as my dog is in agility classes, so I want to make the purchase soon.
> 
> What lifevest would you recommend. She has a 31" girth and in 9 1/2 mths old so if I could I would like to buy just one.


Like others, I would strongly recommend Ruffwear Float Coat! It's the best even today!


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