# GSD Breeders in Bay area



## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

hi, welcome to the forum...
sounds as if you’re completely new to the breed as well - a few things that stand out in your post... 6yr old son, 1hr a day, and showlines being snappy (for the record, i’ve never heard this). so i’ll start with suggesting that you take a look at this thread, and also browse around this section, just to make sure that this is the right breed for your family and that you’re prepared for a puppy vs an older dog.

as far as breeders in the bay area - sentinelhart is in dublin, witmer-tyson is in menlo park... both are working lines, have good reputations but pretty different dogs. extend your search another 1-2hrs in each direction (except west, lol) and you open yourself up to several other breeders. i moved your thread to the “choosing a breeder” section... you should be able to find other CA breeder recommendations fairly easily / recent.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i think you’d be hard pressed to find any breeder with all 5 star reviews across all platforms (google, yelp, fb...) but i digress.

as far as the dogs you listed.. it’s unclear if you’re asking what to expect with that pairing? or simply what the title abbreviations mean? step one, i’d ask the breeder what they like about the pairing and what they expect or hope to achieve with this litter.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Thanks. I was just asking what to expect the litters from that pair, I just couldn't say what they mean..


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Aladin is a West German Showline. I've been around one (actually two, I think, but one for sure) dogs he sired. The dog was suuuuuper biddable, and what I consider to be very social (for a GSD). 

Here's a ped link for the dam, I don't have any personal insight here but it might add to the discussion. 

Cola von der Ransch-Vincent


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## brittanyS (Dec 11, 2018)

bala14 said:


> Thanks. Sentinelhart was extremely unkempt which seemed unhealthy, also the breeder wasn't very responsive with our questions, so we decided to look elsewhere.



That was not my experience with SentinelHarts. I have been to their kennel twice and found all the dogs well cared for and their environment was clean. I could see how you would feel that the breeder is not super responsive, but I attributed this to her working a full time job in addition to taking care of her dogs. That being said, you should of course go with whatever breeder meets your personal expectations.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

WIBackpacker said:


> Aladin is a West German Showline. I've been around one (actually two, I think, but one for sure) dogs he sired. The dog was suuuuuper biddable, and what I consider to be very social (for a GSD).
> 
> Here's a ped link for the dam, I don't have any personal insight here but it might add to the discussion.
> 
> Cola von der Ransch-Vincent


Thanks. This helps, so based on the pedigree of the pair, would it be a safe bet to take for someone like us - first time dog owners. I'm more concerned about temperament and health!
Thanks.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

I really can't comment on this particular litter because I don't know anything about the dam and haven't spent time around any closely related dogs or the people involved. 

The sire has stuck in my mind because after I spent time around his one son, I looked up the pedigree.

It's possible someone here might have input on the dam, I think there are people here with Salztalblick dogs in pedigrees. 

I'd talk to the breeder in depth, spend some time around his/her dogs, and see where that leads!


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

WIBackpacker said:


> I really can't comment on this particular litter because I don't know anything about the dam and haven't spent time around any closely related dogs or the people involved.
> 
> The sire has stuck in my mind because after I spent time around his one son, I looked up the pedigree.
> 
> ...


Ok, appreciate it. Thanks for the feedback.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

bala14 said:


> Thanks. This helps, so based on the pedigree of the pair, would it be a safe bet to take for someone like us - first time dog owners. I'm more concerned about temperament and health!
> Thanks.


My dogs dam is from Salztalblick. Some same dogs as that female, Nandy-Paska,,, I'm not sure why the actual breeding of that male and female though. Even if they're both nice dogs, I don't know that I'd want to bet on the temperament from the mix. I'm guessing it would be something along the lines of trying to produce some calm balance or something, but I think you can find stable dogs in either line. You should ignore yelp and meet Randy in person. Whether its a Witmer-Tyson dog or someone else, she can help direct you to a good first time dog.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Steve Strom said:


> My dogs dam is from Salztalblick. Some same dogs as that female, Nandy-Paska,,, I'm not sure why the actual breeding of that male and female though. Even if they're both nice dogs, I don't know that I'd want to bet on the temperament from the mix. I'm guessing it would be something along the lines of trying to produce some calm balance or something, but I think you can find stable dogs in either line. You should ignore yelp and meet Randy in person. Whether its a Witmer-Tyson dog or someone else, she can help direct you to a good first time dog.


Thanks. Sorry, to clarify are you saying that the temperament could be an issue in the litter from this pair..?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i believe steve may be referring to the mixing of working line to showline. it’s generally seen as a controversial practice. either the breeder has no idea what they’re doing, or a very good reasoning as to what they’re trying to accomplish. only they can tell you that. if it happens to be a repeat breeding... that can give you good info.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Fodder said:


> i believe steve may be referring to the mixing of working line to showline. it’s generally seen as a controversial practice. either the breeder has no idea what they’re doing, or a very good reasoning as to what they’re trying to accomplish. only they can tell you that. if it happens to be a repeat breeding... that can give you good info.


Ok, makes sense now. Thanks for all the help. This is very informative, appreciate it!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, basically what Fodder said. I'm not seeing where there's a very good chance to know what these two will produce. I don't see a way for someone to be able to, in general, predict what you'll get. I look at it in just real, real simplistic terms. Breed good to good to keep it that way. Breed good showline to good showline and good working to working. There have been successful mixes of the two, I know, but I would still go one or the other.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Steve Strom said:


> Yeah, basically what Fodder said. I'm not seeing where there's a very good chance to know what these two will produce. I don't see a way for someone to be able to, in general, predict what you'll get. I look at it in just real, real simplistic terms. Breed good to good to keep it that way. Breed good showline to good showline and good working to working. There have been successful mixes of the two, I know, but I would still go one or the other.


Very clear, thanks for the follow up. Appreciate it!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Plus, she's 9 years old. That raises a few other questions.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Steve Strom said:


> Plus, she's 9 years old. That raises a few other questions.


Got it. I've reached out to Tyson-Witmer, see where that takes me! Thanks.


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## chuckd (Jul 16, 2019)

bala14 said:


> Got it. I've reached out to Tyson-Witmer, see where that takes me! Thanks.


FYI - Presently, if you reach out to Randy, don't be surprised if a response takes longer than expected. She is usually very good about communication, but the fire situation may still have her preoccupied.


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## CC27 (Nov 3, 2019)

You should check out Valkyre German Shepherds in Roseville and Zwinger Vom Rotenwald in Fremont. West Coast German Shepherds in SoCal as well.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

CC27 said:


> You should check out Valkyre German Shepherds in Roseville and Zwinger Vom Rotenwald in Fremont. West Coast German Shepherds in SoCal as well.


West Coast breeds WGSL. They have a huge kennel with many litters, so the buyer needs to be aware of that when looking at litters.


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## CC27 (Nov 3, 2019)

I have no experience with west coast, but heard good things when I was researching/looking for breeders when I was in California. I visited Valkyre and liked her dogs. She’s been breeding a very long time and has developed her own bloodlines over the decades which I’d say are somewhat unique? Started with more WGSL, but now has more of a working line. Nice well rounded dogs from what I could tell.

Personally someone looking for a family pet with good health and temperament with small children sounds like a great candidate for WGSL to me.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Thanks for all the suggestions, any feedback about CS Vista farms!


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

To tag on to my question about CS Vista farms - they breed old fashioned straight back GSDs. When I look up at the different GSD lines - I only see the below 1) American SL 2) WG - SL 3) WG - WL 4) EG - DDR WL 5) Czech - WL.
So was wondering where would the old fashioned GSDs fit under, or in other words which line above would they closely resemble..?
Thanks.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

The phrase “Old fashioned straight back” is pretty much a guarantee of dogs not bred to standard. It’s a giant red flag.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

IMO, falls under “pet lines”
Although CS Vista farms appears to do a lot more than some... bottom line is that they’re breeding out of standard dogs with no clear direction as far as type. Catering to the pet market.


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## CC27 (Nov 3, 2019)

I would avoid any breeder who uses the term “Old Fashioned” and “Straight Back.” Generally speaking those are terms used to entice uneducated new owners, and they are breeding dogs outside of the breed standard, which is there for a reason. Proper angulation does not cause health problems. Most breeders who advertise like that are more or less backyard breeders. That’s not to say they may not have good family dogs, but on this forum you’ll most find people who think dogs should be kept within the breed standard. Check out this









Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder


Please be advised, the links in this thread are in the process of being updated - 8/23/20 The more you know and read up on these, the better the questions you'll be able to ask. As well as your ability to figure out truth from evasion in the answers you may get in response. With getting a puppy...




www.germanshepherds.com













"Old fashioned" GSDs


In my short time as a GSD fancier, I've learned that pretty much all of the breeders that advertise their dogs as "large, straight backed, old fashioned GSDs with big blocky heads" are pretty much in the DO NOT ENGAGE category, lol. I'm curious, though. Does this purportedly old fashioned GSD...




www.germanshepherds.com


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## SentinelHarts (May 7, 2011)

bala14 said:


> Thanks. Sentinelhart was extremely unkempt which seemed unhealthy, also the breeder wasn't very responsive with our questions, so we decided to look elsewhere. Witmer-Tyson has some negative reviews on yelp which is concerning, looks like it’s hard to find someone that has 100% positive reviews on health and temperament.
> 
> Also, was wondering how we would evaluate the below:
> SIRE:
> ...


bala14 . I am not sure what you saw about my facility that was not acceptable let alone "extremely unkempt" That is a big accusation!!!! Not every breeder raises their dogs in concrete 4x12 runs. My large 20x20 runs do have dirt floors but they are picked up regularly and I have never had any troubles passing my kennel inspections. Maybe we didn't hit it off but don't go slandering someone without basis. 

After visiting with you, I have a couple of suggestions for you in your search for a breeder. Based on the questions you asked of me while you were here, you have very limited knowledge / experience with dogs. I suggested that you and your family do some volunteer work with a shelter or even consider fostering a dog for a short time as rescues are very supportive in teaching people how to care for their dogs in need. You need a breeder that is willing to coach you each step of the way in raising a puppy, from how to crate train, how to teach basic obedience, when they need vaccines etc. You are a beginner and should be searching for a lower drive but very bidable dog with good nerves. You should also have a trainer identified and get yourself enrolled in puppy classes as soon as is possible once your puppy is thru its vaccine series.

best of luck to you and to the breeder you buy from

Camilla


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You shared you are new to dogs, new to the breed. I am wondering why you shared negative comments on two very respected breeders when your experience is so limited? 
Doing some volunteer work at a shelter or rescue is a great idea, it may also lead you to a dog that is in need and temperament is known for a good fit for your family as your first dog.
If you've been around a weaned litter of pups for more than an hour or two, you will see the time that is needed to keep the puppy area clean and to be honest, puppies are all about getting into whatever they can to have fun. Grass is destroyed, mud is fun, dirt is to be dug in. Doesn't matter the breed or the breeder.


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It’s not you personally but this forum has a policy of not posting negative things about breeders on the forum. You are new and are unaware of that. What seems one way to one person can seem completely different to someone else. If your statement had been breeder bashing, a moderator would have removed it, but most of us take negative comments to private messaging so we don’t offend anyone.

The breeder you mentioned was kind enough to offer you excellent advice. You should take it. It was given with extreme kindness.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

_MOD CAUTION - any negative opinions or feelings about specific breeders should always be shared via private conversations.No one comes away unscathed during he said/she said arguments.It's against forum rules._
Best to move on to another subject now.Thank you


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## 4K9Mom (Jun 19, 2019)

brittanyS said:


> That was not my experience with SentinelHarts. I have been to their kennel twice and found all the dogs well cared for and their environment was clean. I could see how you would feel that the breeder is not super responsive, but I attributed this to her working a full time job in addition to taking care of her dogs. That being said, you should of course go with whatever breeder meets your personal expectations.


Yes.


I have a SentinelHarts dog who is 1.5 years old, so I’ve been to her home and can also confirm that yes, her kennel is clean and well maintained.
Of course, she’s a family breeder. I prefer a breeder whose dogs are free to run on grass and dig holes in cool dirt on warm days than sterile industrial kennels where dogs live on concrete surrounded by bars.

In my experience, family breeders breed to preserve and improve the breed. They aren’t doing it to get rich.
They’re my strong preference but I know a lot of novice dog owners might be impressed by industrial sterile kennels.

Ultimately, for me, it’s the quality of the dog. My _working_ dog is everything I could have ever wanted. The owner of SentinelHarts specifically choose him for me. This is a breeder with superior knowledge of GSDs and genetics, and she is always responsive to her dogs’ owners.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

To me personally it concerns me to start with a GSD without dog experience and small kids (and friends coming over etc). Have you considered a Collie or English Shepherd? They are much easier to train and manage for a novice, yet still active.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

If you ultimately decide to get a GSD as your first dog, I strongly urge you to educate yourself before you bring that puppy home. Pick a system, watch all the videos 12 times, ask questions here. Read every puppy sticky. Get a balanced trainer with references. 

I board and train problem dogs. 83% of those dogs are between 7 and 12 months old. It's very expensive for me, or any other trainer, to keep a dog for 4-6 weeks and undo all their bad habits to instill good ones and then train the owners to not screw the dog up the first week it's home.

Many experienced dog owners really struggle with their first GSD.


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## Shepherdmom1 (Sep 24, 2020)

brittanyS said:


> That was not my experience with SentinelHarts. I have been to their kennel twice and found all the dogs well cared for and their environment was clean. I could see how you would feel that the breeder is not super responsive, but I attributed this to her working a full time job in addition to taking care of her dogs. That being said, you should of course go with whatever breeder meets your personal expectations.





bala14 said:


> Also, was wondering how we would evaluate the below:
> SIRE:
> ALADIN vom Bergmannsland
> BH AD IPO 3, kkl 1a lbz ZW 78
> ...


I was reading your post from earlier about SentinalHarts, I have to completely disagree what you said about the breeder . Her property is very well kept clean and she makes sure people coming onto the property disinfect their shoes . The puppies are very well cared for . I have been around dogs all my life and I’ve researched other breeders and Camilla is the one I knew was in my opinion the best . This breeder goes above and beyond for her dogs and her clients . She has a communication with you even after you get one of her pups and her contract is very well written because she does care where her puppies go to . As far as you say the breeder was not responsive to your questions , maybe she was also screening you too if you were a good fit to have one of her pups , maybe you were not understanding her answers . When I met with her she was friendly and answered all my questions with a smile and very professional . After she agrees you are a fit for her pup she will even recommend a trainer because these are high drive dogs . She is not your ordinary here you go have a pup breeder . When you know someone has a SentinalHart pup , that’s something to be proud of from their reputation . These pups are healthy and ready to please . I recommend Camilla to everyone when they ask where my dog came from . I’m sorry you did not have the experience to see what a reputable breeder is like . Good luck in your search .


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## bala14 (Sep 18, 2020)

Shepherdmom1 said:


> I was reading your post from earlier about SentinalHarts, I have to completely disagree what you said about the breeder . Her property is very well kept clean and she makes sure people coming onto the property disinfect their shoes . The puppies are very well cared for . I have been around dogs all my life and I’ve researched other breeders and Camilla is the one I knew was in my opinion the best . This breeder goes above and beyond for her dogs and her clients . She has a communication with you even after you get one of her pups and her contract is very well written because she does care where her puppies go to . As far as you say the breeder was not responsive to your questions , maybe she was also screening you too if you were a good fit to have one of her pups , maybe you were not understanding her answers . When I met with her she was friendly and answered all my questions with a smile and very professional . After she agrees you are a fit for her pup she will even recommend a trainer because these are high drive dogs . She is not your ordinary here you go have a pup breeder . When you know someone has a SentinalHart pup , that’s something to be proud of from their reputation . These pups are healthy and ready to please . I recommend Camilla to everyone when they ask where my dog came from . I’m sorry you did not have the experience to see what a reputable breeder is like . Good luck in your search .


Thanks for the note. I deleted my comments long back as I didn't want any negative feelings or controversies.


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## Rosebud (Sep 16, 2016)

bala14 said:


> Also, was wondering how we would evaluate the below:
> SIRE:
> ALADIN vom Bergmannsland
> BH AD IPO 3, kkl 1a lbz ZW 78
> ...


I actually have a male from the very first Aladin and Cola litter. He is my "heart" dog. I have had many german shepherds over the last 45 years and my male Pi is the best, he is calm, shows discernment, has a sense of humor. He was easily trainable, even though he can be stubborn at times. Pi (29" at the shoulders and 100 lbs, but you can feel his ribs) is a big black and tan, long coat german shepherd, he has his sires massive head. I also have an Aladin daughter from another litter Aladin and Elegant Rose, Rosie, another great dog, she has her sires coloring and her dams ferrari type looks, she is what they call a "fast dog" in the south. Pi is all about his nose, we track and play games, Rosie is all about herding and jumping. Both great dogs. Also ther is an Aladin progeny face book group , we stay in touch and Bobbi, the breeder is a great resource and very supportive of her "dog parents"


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