# Looking for some help and advice.



## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Hey guys,
My name is Frank. Came here to seek a little bit of help. I am not new to owning dogs and have had companions as far back as I can remember. Additionally, GSDs are not new for me. I am currently looking to add another member to our family and want to get another GSD as my current one has been the best dog I have ever owned. 

I was stationed in NC at the time when I purchased her. I didn't know to much about looking for a quality animals or what it meant. Shortly after I purchased her she started having hip pain. I took her into the vet and we did x-rays. She was diagnosed with hip dysplasia. After two surgeries, physical therapy and lots of love she got much better. Needless to say I have invested a ton of money into this dog and don't regret any of it. Unfortunately, she was the product of bad breeding. Backyard breeding.

Now that I am once again looking to add another member to our pack, I want to make a smart purchase and get a well bred dog to hopefully negate or reduce the potential for genetic diseases - issues related to poor breeding. Price is not the forefront concern for me.

I am looking for an all black GSD and have recently been talking a good amount to the owner of Kennel von Wiese (Kennel of the Meadows). I have done some internet searches on him and his breeding and can only find one negative minus some forum chatter. I understand that breeders that breed for color only are a no no. Additionally, I have read and understand the different aspects of what to look for when searching for a breeder ie... ensuring that the breeder is selective of who they sell to, looking at the amount of litters per month/year, seeing if you can show up to the premises unannounced or you have to schedule a visit, guarantees, etc etc etc...

My real motive here is to get feedback about this breeder (other then their prices are very high) and to see if you guys could recommend anyone that you know or have used in the past. Anyone can put up a website and make it look good. Customer reviews though mean a lot and individuals like yourselves are a great source of this information.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Frank,

There are a number of people here who can and I believe would be happy to recommend good breeders. As far as opinions on the breeder you mentioned, however, unless it is a positive review, anyone who has a critical review of them will send you a PM (private message), since breeder bashing publicly is not allowed. There are generalities that can come up, such as what you mentioned, breeding for a color is not a good thing. As far as positive things to look for, has this breeder done any health testing on his/her dogs? How about OFA or PennHip? Is their breeding stock titled? Are you looking for working line, or show line?

A good breeder who asks you what your lifestyle is, members of family, etc., will try their best to match you with a puppy that will have the best shot at being successful in your home. Really, color should be secondary, but I know how you feel. I have a soft spot for sables (I have one sable, one black). These two were both rescues, however, so I didn't really choose for color, in fact, in a way the dogs chose me, lol.

You will find a wealth of information here, check out this forum-- Choosing A Breeder -- for great information. It didn't come through as a link, don't know what I did wrong, lol, but look for the forum, that is the title.

Susan


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Frank,
> 
> There are a number of people here who can and I believe would be happy to recommend good breeders. As far as opinions on the breeder you mentioned, however, unless it is a positive review, anyone who has a critical review of them will send you a PM (private message), since breeder bashing publicly is not allowed. There are generalities that can come up, such as what you mentioned, breeding for a color is not a good thing. As far as positive things to look for, has this breeder done any health testing on his/her dogs? How about OFA or PennHip? Is their breeding stock titled? Are you looking for working line, or show line?
> 
> ...


 
Thank you Susan. This breeder has all highly titled dogs. All his dogs have been health tested and he does offer a health guarantee. I am looking for a working dog. We will place this animal through protection training. The website they have looks great, what they say on the website looks great and his presentation on the phone sounds great. Guy seems very knowledgeable about his animals and is natural very fluent as he holds a doctorate degree in medicine. I just like to have a sense of security hearing from other enthusiasts the ups and downs of their experience. Also, having recommendations from others that have used top quality breeders is far better then reading text on a website. Checking out that thread now. Thanks again.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

If you are looking for a working dog then you need to research the dogs you are considering and their progeny. Research dogs first and then look for a breeder otherwise you are setting yourself up for getting another random puppy.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

GSD07 said:


> If you are looking for a working dog then you need to research the dogs you are considering and their progeny. Research dogs first and then look for a breeder otherwise you are setting yourself up for getting another random puppy.


Thank you for your input. I am leaning to stick with German bloodlines verse American due to some things that I read. What are your preferences and what would you recommend?


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

What do you guys think about this litter? Hard understanding all these terms. Been trying to cross reference them with the terms thread on the main page here.

http://www.schraderhausk9.com/puppy_pic_page_etta_x_grim.htm


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I know nothing about this breeder, not much about breeders in general. A couple of things leaped out at me though just from the website.
Hips guaranteed to 1 year, that's scary. My vet told me prior to 24 months the best he could do were prelims. Most of the breeders I looked at ask for xrays at 24 months.
His prices are crazy high! That's 2-3 times what most breeders are charging, 3500 for a puppy is way too much of a gamble for me.
Again I know nothing that's just my observations based on a website.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> I know nothing about this breeder, not much about breeders in general. A couple of things leaped out at me though just from the website.
> Hips guaranteed to 1 year, that's scary. My vet told me prior to 24 months the best he could do were prelims. Most of the breeders I looked at ask for xrays at 24 months.
> His prices are crazy high! That's 2-3 times what most breeders are charging, 3500 for a puppy is way too much of a gamble for me.
> Again I know nothing that's just my observations based on a website.


That is one of my concerns. Another is that the guarantee is only if you feed raw as well. Price is not a concern so much as the quality of the animal. I have been through so much with my current GSD that I do not want a repeat.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Do you have a protection trainer selected? If you do that may be your best source when searching for a good dog. Wanting a dog to do protection work raises the bar somewhat as to genetics. 

I also suggest you look up some Schutzhund/IPO groups in your area. See if they will allow you to go to one of their training sessions. Chat with some of those folks or a trainer associated with the group to get recommendations on dogs and breeders.

Getting a dog that you want to do protection with, beyond alert barking, is a big responsibility. As some of our WL breeders will tell you not all WLs are cut out for it. It requires the proper genetics, proper and consistent training. Good luck with your search! 



Bigtime said:


> Thank you Susan. This breeder has all highly titled dogs. All his dogs have been health tested and he does offer a health guarantee. I am looking for a working dog. *We will place this animal through protection training.* The website they have looks great, what they say on the website looks great and his presentation on the phone sounds great. Guy seems very knowledgeable about his animals and is natural very fluent as he holds a doctorate degree in medicine. I just like to have a sense of security hearing from other enthusiasts the ups and downs of their experience. Also, having recommendations from others that have used top quality breeders is far better then reading text on a website. Checking out that thread now. Thanks again.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Another thing you can do, if you find a breeding you are interested in, post up the pedigree of the puppy in the pedigree subforum. The WL folks often can give you an idea of what the genetics of the litter will bring to the table.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Another thing you can do, if you find a breeding you are interested in, post up the pedigree of the puppy in the pedigree subforum. The WL folks often can give you an idea of what the genetics of the litter will bring to the table.


Outstanding. Thank you.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bigtime said:


> That is one of my concerns. Another is that the guarantee is only if you feed raw as well. Price is not a concern so much as the quality of the animal. I have been through so much with my current GSD that I do not want a repeat.


The greatest dog I have ever known came from nowhere. I am no expert on breeding or breeders, but when Sabi was diagnosed with DM I did a lot of research and the results I came up with were frankly, depressing.
Of the thousands of breeders in the US and Canada far less then half are doing any health testing. Many are good at flashy websites and sales pitches, but I learned to look through that. 
I don't know where you are located but that might help narrow things down. A well bred, working line pup from titled and tested parents in the US seems to cost somewhere around 1500-2000. 
I looked at contracts that allowed me the right to make reasonable decisions for my dog, while still offering protection for the breeder and the buyer. I will not be told what to feed, roped into supplements or required to follow a breeders training program. I do want a breeder who will take the dog back should a catastrophe occur in my life, and one who exhibits a real concern for the dog, not the cheque.
I looked specifically for guarantees that allowed me to keep the dog should a health issue arise, because like **** am I sending back the dog I raise and love like a defective cell phone. 
I look for breeders who live with their dogs, who know what they are like in real life, who can tell me that Fido's favorite toy is his tug, or his stuffy, because pedigrees are great, and titles are wonderful but these are dogs with quirks and personalities. 
Anyway, as I said I am no expert.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> The greatest dog I have ever known came from nowhere. I am no expert on breeding or breeders, but when Sabi was diagnosed with DM I did a lot of research and the results I came up with were frankly, depressing.
> Of the thousands of breeders in the US and Canada far less then half are doing any health testing. Many are good at flashy websites and sales pitches, but I learned to look through that.
> I don't know where you are located but that might help narrow things down. A well bred, working line pup from titled and tested parents in the US seems to cost somewhere around 1500-2000.
> I looked at contracts that allowed me the right to make reasonable decisions for my dog, while still offering protection for the breeder and the buyer. I will not be told what to feed, roped into supplements or required to follow a breeders training program. I do want a breeder who will take the dog back should a catastrophe occur in my life, and one who exhibits a real concern for the dog, not the cheque.
> ...


 I am in South Florida if that helps any. You are completely right an I understand exactly what you are saying. Getting back in the saddle and starting the hunt for the next pack member is very nerve racking. I have been getting better at weeding through all the fluff and garbage out there.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Schraderhaus is a very good breeder and I have met and liked the dogs this kennel produced. I would go with the litter you posted since I like DDR line, and I am a little familiar with some dogs in the pedigree.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bigtime said:


> What do you guys think about this litter? Hard understanding all these terms. Been trying to cross reference them with the terms thread on the main page here.
> 
> SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs


 I did not even see this. I know a couple of people who have Schraderhaus dogs, and are very happy with them. 
I debated a pup from there, and still might. She is a very nice lady, honest and easy to talk to. I dislike that many of her dogs are co owned, that she breeds so many litters. However, given the health testing that she does and the fact that all her dogs are titled, what she is doing is putting a lot of healthy, stable dogs from a broad genetic base into the equation. At this point that may be a blessing.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> I did not even see this. I know a couple of people who have Schraderhaus dogs, and are very happy with them.
> I debated a pup from there, and still might. She is a very nice lady, honest and easy to talk to. I dislike that many of her dogs are co owned, that she breeds so many litters. However, given the health testing that she does and the fact that all her dogs are titled, what she is doing is putting a lot of healthy, stable dogs from a broad genetic base into the equation. At this point that may be a blessing.


 
So far not too impressed. Used the contact link on the website yesterday and attempted to call them three times today. Phone rings a few times and then you get the message that the users mailbox is full and can not accept any messages at this time. Being that I own my own business I hate when I run into issues like this. Regardless of what someone sells (service or tangible asset) customer service shows the customer just how customer oriented a business is. That is one of the big factors why Amazon became a giant. Anyway, sorry for the quick rant.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Good breeders are not customer oriented, they are dog oriented....


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

GSD07 said:


> Good breeders are not customer oriented, they are dog oriented....


Still need to answer the phone... lol... I got your drift though...


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> I did not even see this. I know a couple of people who have Schraderhaus dogs, and are very happy with them.
> I debated a pup from there, and still might. She is a very nice lady, honest and easy to talk to. I dislike that many of her dogs are co owned, that she breeds so many litters. However, given the health testing that she does and the fact that all her dogs are titled, what she is doing is putting a lot of healthy, stable dogs from a broad genetic base into the equation. At this point that may be a blessing.


I talked with her and there are apparently so many people ahead of me for a pup. She referred me to a guy that knows some good breeders. I surely liked her dogs...


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Still haven't heard anything. So the search continues. 

Interested what you guys think about this breeder. 

      MAJOR GERMAN SHEPHERDS - BLACK AKC German Shepherds - Family/Personal Protection


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't see anything on that website that excites me. A lot of babble about AKC obedience. 

If you want a dog for personal protection, have you considered an older dog?

You might find a better variety of breeders by browsing pages like this
https://www.facebook.com/groups/187511941259393/


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> I don't see anything on that website that excites me. A lot of babble about AKC obedience.
> 
> If you want a dog for personal protection, have you considered an older dog?
> 
> ...


I have. Looked at that group. Closed group so requested an invite. Thanks for the info.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Bigtime said:


> So far not too impressed. Used the contact link on the website yesterday and attempted to call them three times today. Phone rings a few times and then you get the message that the users mailbox is full and can not accept any messages at this time. Being that I own my own business I hate when I run into issues like this. Regardless of what someone sells (service or tangible asset) customer service shows the customer just how customer oriented a business is. That is one of the big factors why Amazon became a giant. Anyway, sorry for the quick rant.


I sent Jean an email and she got back to me in a couple of days. Be patient, she is a busy lady. 
I do know she has waiting lists for some litters, since I was looking into a future breeding I would have been higher on the list for that litter.
It is rare to find a good breeder that has pups available right away, usually they are reserved before they are even born.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Sabis mom said:


> I sent Jean an email and she got back to me in a couple of days. Be patient, she is a busy lady.
> I do know she has waiting lists for some litters, since I was looking into a future breeding I would have been higher on the list for that litter.
> It is rare to find a good breeder that has pups available right away, usually they are reserved before they are even born.


I have been waiting for over 6 months now on my current breeder. Not worried about the wait. It's been almost a week now since my first email. Kind of like to know that if there is an issue once I get a pup I will get a timely response. Anyway, I will continue the search. Think I have a lead from a local meet the other day.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> I don't see anything on that website that excites me. A lot of babble about AKC obedience.
> 
> If you want a dog for personal protection, have you considered an older dog?
> 
> ...


Thanks for this link. Been finding a bunch of different breeders that seem to be producing quality pups.


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Thoughts?

Chash VuSassi vom Gildaf


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Helga v eurosportu in that pedigree is my females mother..Love her to death, she's a wild thing


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## Bigtime (Mar 24, 2015)

Alright guys. Think I may have found the one unless you guys know of something that I do not. Please look at the pedigree and let me know what you think. Thanks guys for all your help so far.

Dam and Sire

SG Gonso vom Wieratal


Jade vom Haus Rentz


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