# So it would appear Tucker *can* scale a five foot fence... now what?



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I just had my yard fenced with five foot chain link. I've had the dogs outside with me a lot since it was installed -- Wednesday of last week I think it was. We've spent hours upon hours out there, no problem. I am always out there with them because I want to deal with *any* fence jumping or digging under stuff ASAP. Not one of the dogs has tried to jump up or dig, so that's great.

Tonight, out of nowhere, an escaped border collie mix of some kind came running up to my yard when three of my dogs were out with me. It came right up to the fence, barking and pretty nutty. The owner was a few minutes behind the dog, so Bailey and Tucker were getting pretty worked up with this other dog on the other side of the fence growling and barking at them. My boyfriend and I were just kind of like, HUH? and not really knowing just how to control all of this. It is very rare to have an offleash dog around here.

Bailey was barking, but Tucker was REALLY getting worked up. He wanted access to that dog pretty bad and that dog was just really goading him on.

The bf tried to get control of Tucker by the collar, but Tucks twisted and literally went straight up?! The bf reached out and got him down to the ground, (hard to explain,) but bottom line is if he hadn't done that, Tucker would've probably been over the fence. The experience showed us Tucker can get over a five foot fence. Bailey never tried to jump up.

The owner came running up apologizing and so on... and explained the dog had been a farm dog and he had just gotten the dog. He said, "I thought I could let him offleash to potty in that field, but he just took off!" Ok, "that field" is MY property. I am going to post no trespassing signs tomorrow. I should've done that long ago, but it's never been a problem. I was *sure* ready to explain that to him, but it was chaotic and he leashed up the dog and led him away... right down, again, into my property as he left. 

Ok, so things calmed down... and who returns? Same dog! The bf had taken Tucker inside to calm down, but Bails was still out there and a little barking nonsense re-started. Yet again, the young man leashed the dog up and led it away. (Down into my field again) Then he apparently needed to answer his cell phone  and as I watched him trying to talk on the phone and control this dog, the collar snapped and the dog was loose yet again. Right back to my fence line. Once again he leashed the dog up, all the while on his blankety-blank phone and once again, retreating down into my field. 

They didn't come back again.

That dog will surely be back. 

Now I'm feeling paranoid because I'm going to be out in my yard all the time with my dogs, and if I'm alone, what will I do if Tucker goes nutball like that and does get over the fence? 

I'm not even sure what I'm asking here for advice? But does anyone have any? 

PS - I should say both Bailey and Tucker are very dog-friendly. Tucker just gets very, very excitable and doesn't have any training behind him for control. I was able to distract Bailey completely with some hotdogs and obedience commands... Tucker is not that way.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

At the very least, I would keep a leash handy. Do you think you could clip it onto his collar when he was worked up?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Hotwire? Usually all it takes is one or two zaps and you can leave the wire up so they still think its hot but actually turn it off. Worked great with a boxer digger we used to have. He would see a wire and wouldn't get near it even 10 years later.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

paulag1955 said:


> At the very least, I would keep a leash handy. Do you think you could clip it onto his collar when he was worked up?


He's crazy leash-reactive. Makes him pull 100 times harder, but I could try to plant my butt on the ground and get dragged... better than him going over the fence if this dog comes back. I always have a leash handy. I might just have him drag a leash in the yard for the next little while, until we figure out if this other dog is going to keep coming back. No doubt in my mind, if that dog gets the chance, he's comin' right back up here. 



shepherdmom said:


> Hotwire? Usually all it takes is one or two zaps and you can leave the wire up so they still think its hot but actually turn it off. Worked great with a boxer digger we used to have. He would see a wire and wouldn't get near it even 10 years later.


Not my first preference, but I might have to try it. 

I could be wrong and maybe the dog will never come back.. but I'd rather be prepared. I don't think the dog is a mean dog, just really hyped up. The owner, a young kid, said he was a farm dog, and he's definitely at least part Border Collie, so he's probably used to having lots of space to roam and run, and now here he is, trying to learn boundaries and being on a leash. 

Hopefully no one will be offended by me saying that I seriously doubt this young man is prepared to properly exercise a border collie mix. Considering he felt his cell phone call was more important than securing his dog, I don't have much faith here.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Hotwire. Cheap, easy, and effective.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Sorry to say but you may have to train that BC to stay away from your fence. You could get a hose with a super strong sprayer on it, the fire hose type from a big box place is usually pretty good. But if your dogs like to play with the hose then it will get them psyched up even more, if your dogs don't particularly like the hose then it's a good back up option.
At my house a throw chain is the quickest thing in a situation like that. You could also get some pepper spray to spray the other dog (if you can do it without hitting your dog). If you don't want to do that, you can get a spray bottle and fill it with water and add some vinegar or lemon juice to it. Not my favorite thing, but look at the big picture, this dog agitating your dogs to the point of them getting into a fight with each other or them getting out and getting into it with the other dog is a really bad outcome, a little vinegar or lemon juice as a last resort may be your best on hand in the heat of the moment.
As to your bf, grabbing the collar just amps up the dog. It's the same way you do beginner agitation in protection work, show the dog something to kick in their prey drive and then hold them back. Watch the drive dial straight up!
If the situation is truly at defcon 5 and you MUST get the dog away from the fence or they actually get into a fight, then treat it like a dog fight. Grab the dog by the tail and swing the dog airplane style away from the fence or just pull slowly back if that will work. Keep that in mind if you are ever in a situation where they get into it with that dog, DO NOT stick your hands or arms in there!


The hotwire may be your quickest and best solution, just offering some other ideas.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

If the dog is worked up and in drive, a hotwire may not solve your problem. I had one go right through a CATTLE hot wire, taking and ignoring the full hit, which is a bit stronger than one for dogs. 

She was in drive and chasing a goat....a dog in drive like that may not feel the pain. I might consider other options such as putting an inward slanted top so he could not go over, or leaving him in a covered pen while you are gone. 

I think you might need to look at some serious training such as Lou Castles ecollar techniques..


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm thinking less visual would work, so some kind of slates that go into the fence so dogs don't see each other, but that isn't going to help if the other dog is barking up a storm. You had pretty good timing getting that fence because imagine if the fence wasn't there yet


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Glad my neighbors aren't on this forum....so I can tell you what I do

Our neighbor's gf moved in with her dog...it is about 10 lbs at most, blind, and very fear aggressive. However she charges our fence line and tries to bite through it. I started having the hose ready and as soon as she started she'd get a nice face full of water. She usually stays away from the fence line now.
You can also buy the slanted tops that go on top of chain link at a Lowe's or Home Depot. Wish I knew what they were called....they latch onto the chain link, and slant inwards......you could always just attach the hotwire to those. That way the entire fence isn't "hot" but if they make it to the top...they'll want back down, and think twice.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Slanting inward will keep your dog in but may not keep other critters out (I was considering using outward slanting fence to keep coyotes out, but realize it may not keep Rey in). I've been looking at multiple designs to keep coyotes out, as they can also scale a 6' fence pretty easily. A guy on one of these threads a few days ago showed a picture of his own version of a "coyote roller." He slit a black drain pipe and topped the fence with it. Though a dog can leap 5-6', to gain momentum to propel outward it has to have a foothold on top of the fence to get over it. Something like that would work both in and out. You may want to look into it.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

bocron said:


> Sorry to say but you may have to *train that BC to stay away from your fence.* You could get a hose with a super strong sprayer on it, the fire hose type from a big box place is usually pretty good. But if your dogs like to play with the hose then it will get them psyched up even more, if your dogs don't particularly like the hose then it's a good back up option.
> At my house a throw chain is the quickest thing in a situation like that. You could also get some pepper spray to spray the other dog (if you can do it without hitting your dog). If you don't want to do that, you can get a spray bottle and fill it with water and add some vinegar or lemon juice to it. Not my favorite thing, but look at the big picture, *this dog agitating your dogs to the point of them getting into a fight with each other* or *them getting out and getting into it with the other dog* is a really bad outcome, a little vinegar or lemon juice as a last resort may be your best on hand in the heat of the moment.
> *As to your bf, grabbing the collar just amps up the dog*. It's the same way you do beginner agitation in protection work, show the dog something to kick in their prey drive and then hold them back. Watch the drive dial straight up!
> If the situation is truly at defcon 5 and you MUST get the dog away from the fence or they actually get into a fight, then treat it like a dog fight. Grab the dog by the tail and swing the dog airplane style away from the fence or just pull slowly back if that will work. Keep that in mind if you are ever in a situation where they get into it with that dog, DO NOT stick your hands or arms in there!
> ...


Thanks for the ideas. Grabbing Tucker's collar was a sure-fire way to amp him up, but we were running on adrenaline and trying to gain control and not sure what the heck to do. Now we know more. 

Yeah, I do hate the idea of hurting the other dog, but I definitely hate the idea of escaped dog/s and/or fights far more. And you hit the nail on the head there; after the "incident," Bailey and Tucker were snarly with each other. It died down pretty quick, but it did surprise me.



jocoyn said:


> ..... I might consider other options such as putting an inward slanted top so he could not go over, or leaving him in a covered pen while you are gone.
> 
> I think you might need to look at some serious training such as Lou Castles ecollar techniques..


I am going to likely go with the inward slanting top. I need to do more research. They're not outside without me, so no need for a pen at this point... The ecollar may be something to pursue for Tucker. 



llombardo said:


> I'm thinking less visual would work, so some kind of slates that go into the fence so dogs don't see each other, but that isn't going to help if the other dog is barking up a storm. You had pretty good timing getting that fence because imagine if the fence wasn't there yet


Boy you're right on with the timing of the fence. Who knows what might have been if one of the boys were on the tieout. Maybe they would've played.... maybe they would've fought.. who knows. 

I am going to get the slats. I know they won't block everything and they're not cheap, but am still going to get them. 



mysweetkaos said:


> Glad my neighbors aren't on this forum....so I can tell you what I do
> 
> Our neighbor's gf moved in with her dog...it is about 10 lbs at most, blind, and very fear aggressive. However she charges our fence line and tries to bite through it. I started having the hose ready and as soon as she started she'd get a nice face full of water. She usually stays away from the fence line now.
> You can also buy the slanted tops that go on top of chain link at a Lowe's or Home Depot. Wish I knew what they were called....they latch onto the chain link, and slant inwards......you could always just attach the hotwire to those. That way the entire fence isn't "hot" but if they make it to the top...they'll want back down, and think twice.


That's what I'm strongly considering. Install the lean in tops and hotwire those only. 



KentuckyGSDLover said:


> Slanting inward will keep your dog in but may not keep other critters out (I was considering using outward slanting fence to keep coyotes out, but realize it may not keep Rey in). I've been looking at multiple designs to keep coyotes out, as they can also scale a 6' fence pretty easily. A guy on one of these threads a few days ago showed a picture of his own version of a "coyote roller." He slit a black drain pipe and topped the fence with it. Though a dog can leap 5-6', to gain momentum to propel outward it has to have a foothold on top of the fence to get over it. Something like that would work both in and out. You may want to look into it.


This is interesting. Do you have any pics or a link? Money is tight right now after the fence project. 

-------------

The good news is that Tucker has no interest in the fence line -- jumping or digging -- when we're just hanging out and no offleash dogs are about.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I know he isn't an Alaskan husky, but he and Bailey look like they have at least some of the same breeds in them as an Alaskan Husky. They are notorious for being able to climb even the HIGHEST fence or dig out of a yard. I'd recommend, if possible, getting a long tie out. Place it in the middle of the yard so he cant climb or dig out (if your yard is big enough for this.) If it isn't big enough, place it so if he does jump the fence, he wont hang himself, but he wont be able to run off. < This won't help with the other dog, but it will keep him from getting lost or hit by a car.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Cookie started climbing 3 weeks ago. We even had animal control drive by because of some vacation rental people that don't know my dog. Luckily she never runs far she stays near the house. 
This is what I got for my dog.





We have yet to Set it up due to weather. So now my pup is not allowed outside with out us around not even for a minute. So I have really upped the walks and run time. We play lots of fetch now too. Today she was with my daughter and I all day. Went to the park played with some dogs then went to lowes and petco wish more places were dog friendly. We played fetch when we got home too. Now she is out. I am just being more creative in how I excersice her mind and body. We do more training session too. 

In my research hot wire seemed like the best and cheap why to go. Fence jumping is just too rewarding for dogs why would they stop. Make jumping the fence not fun and problem solved. If she starts to dig I will run chicken wire under the fence deep in the dirt. So far she only digs to get ground hogs.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

vicky2200 said:


> I know he isn't an Alaskan husky, but he and Bailey look like they have at least some of the same breeds in them as an Alaskan Husky. They are notorious for being able to climb even the HIGHEST fence or dig out of a yard. I'd recommend, if possible, getting a long tie out. Place it in the middle of the yard so he cant climb or dig out (if your yard is big enough for this.) If it isn't big enough, place it so if he does jump the fence, he wont hang himself, but he wont be able to run off. < This won't help with the other dog, but it will keep him from getting lost or hit by a car.


When I'm not outside with Tucker, for the little time that is, he is on a tieout. Can't risk it. And it is in the middle of the yard. Seeing Tucker jump like that freaked me out. Bailey has never even tried (yet.)



Pepper311 said:


> Cookie started climbing 3 weeks ago. We even had animal control drive by because of some vacation rental people that don't know my dog. Luckily she never runs far she stays near the house.
> This is what I got for my dog.
> 
> 
> ...


That looks interesting. I'll look into that.

Thankfully neither has tried to dig under. (yet.)


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Look at That! A Counterintuitive Approach to Dealing with Reactive Dogs Dog Training for Dog Lovers Blog

Tucker may benefit very well from "Look At That" games and the relaxation protocol. LAT has helped many dogs overcome a lot of mental obstacles like reactivity.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses/ideas.

Tonight the BC came back. We had all the dogs outside and heard a male voice say, "NO!" very loud... Bf and I looked at each other, he said Uh Oh, and up comes the BC thru my field, entering at the end of the fence line. My dogs ran along the length of it along with this dog to the corner. Thankfully my bf was here so it was an easy shut down on our end. They hit the corner and he and I both got control of one dog apiece. No jumping this time. 

The BC was more amped up this time, more aggressive than last. Or so it seemed. I also got a longer/better view of the dog, since we got our dogs under control quickly and were literally just sitting there waiting for the owner. 

I don't know much about BC's but this dog sure seemed thin and the coat was very tangled and matted. The dog just didn't look healthy.

The owner sort of meandered up thru my field and grabbed the dog by the collar. Didn't say a single word. Didn't have a leash. Just walked the dog back down thru the field by the collar. 

I feel sorry for this dog, supposidely a farm dog taken off the farm and now destined to live in a small house with no yard? but this just isn't going to work for us. 

I'm going to maybe have to have a fencing party and put up a bunch of field fence back in the far field. Not sure what else to do?


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Border collies are actually the most intelligent breed known. Because of it, they can get in a lot of trouble unless someone is willing to put a lot of time in with them (kind of like GSD can).


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> Border collies are actually the most intelligent breed known. Because of it, they can get in a lot of trouble unless someone is willing to put a lot of time in with them (kind of like GSD can).


Exactly my concern. I've long wanted to own a border collie, but always doubted that I could give them all they need because I know they need a LOT of mental and physical work. This young kid trying to manage this dog, taken off a farm and now in a very small environment, is a recipe for disaster for this dog I think.  The BC clearly likes to come up to my place. I may be misinterpreting his aggressiveness for just being excited for dog interaction. None the less, I can't afford to let these dogs interact, not knowing this dog, nor his/her health history, etc. I was more than a bit peeved that the owner said absolutely nothing when the dog came up tonight, not a single word. Myself, I'd apologize. Profusely.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

chelle said:


> Exactly my concern. I've long wanted to own a border collie, but always doubted that I could give them all they need because I know they need a LOT of mental and physical work. This young kid trying to manage this dog, taken off a farm and now in a very small environment, is a recipe for disaster for this dog I think.  The BC clearly likes to come up to my place. I may be misinterpreting his aggressiveness for just being excited for dog interaction. None the less, I can't afford to let these dogs interact, not knowing this dog, nor his/her health history, etc. I was more than a bit peeved that the owner said absolutely nothing when the dog came up tonight, not a single word. Myself, I'd apologize. Profusely.



Maybe you'll end up with this one......:lurking:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

llombardo said:


> Maybe you'll end up with this one......:lurking:


Buahaha! Yes, you'd better hide behind that couch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No more dogs! Four is enough! 

Ok, confession time... last visit I wondered if I just let the dog in, they'd probably be fine.? But then logic overtook me and not knowing anything about the dog, not even the sex, I thought nahhhh better not entertain that idea. But I flirted with it for a minute.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

My pepper was half border collie my friends had a pure BC. They are not always the best with strange dogs. Once they know a dog they will be friends for life. They are wary of strang dogs. 

Talk to the owner next time. I would try and get to know the dog maybe he can come over for a play date.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

grabbing an amped up dog by the tail is a good way to get bit, and a good way to injure the dog.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

One or two strands of electric wire is really the only way. 

Slats won't work, there is enough space between slats that the dogs can see, smell and hear each other. Angling the top inward works for some animals but what are you going to use on the top angle? Wire just hung will be pushed out by big, strong dogs and they will get over it. A hose would work but how could you turn it on and pull it into position before your dog gets over the fence. One or two strands of electric wire will work because the dog will be hanging on the fence and struggling to pull itself up and over. While it struggles, it will be repeatedly zapped in the face and chest. (When dogs run thru electric stock fence, it is a low wire and the dog just takes one zap as it runs thru. It doesn't hang on a fence getting the shocks repeatedly while it pulls itself up. BUT, check with your city/county. Electric fences aren't legal in all areas. Also, the neighbor's children will sooner or later come into contact with the electric fence and who knows what will come of that.


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