# Just keep your dog on leash if he do not listen you



## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Last night, I was walking Phenix in streets near my home.

Suddently, a Labrador ran right to us, jumping on Phenix to play.

Ok....Phenix is having a hard time with other dogs. Like a previously said, we are presently working hard with him to eliminate this insecurity toward other dogs, even more when walking. Each step is hard for him. each time we cross a dog, it is a challenge to him, but since a few weeks, he is doing really great, made awesome improvments. I'm proud 

And.....there is people like this who, I think, do not want to take their responsabilities for their dogs. This dog just wanted to play, all right, but I told the lady my dog has issues and could be agressive toward other dogs, especially on leash. The lady tried to call bak her dog, but he wasn't listening at all. He was runing all around us, jumping on Phenix. 

Hopefully, Phenix didn't bite him.....but he was so streesed. He barked a few time and tried to hide between my legs....

Sincerly, thank god this dog wasn't agressive or insecure because it could have turn really bad. Why, why are you bringing your dog in front of you house unleashed if you know he does not listen to you?

Just have to share....we are working so hard and it is the second (or third) time that all our work is compromise due to people who are not responsible.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm not a very patient person when it comes to others who let their dogs run loose. I carry a fairly thick PVC pipe when I walk down my street. If a dog approaches, I'll only use the required amount of force to keep the dog out of our "space". Sometimes it just takes pointing it at them as they approach. I've worked far too hard to allow some Johnny Yahoo to ruin my dog.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

You know, we worked really hard on teaching Sinister that he needs to stay in the yard. He is never on a leash and we do not have a fenced in yard (not yet, we will in may/june) and he runs around the yard but does not leave it. We walked him around the yard line so he knows where he can and cant go. He has never left the yard without our permission. It's a shame that other people dont take the time to train their dogs. One day their dog will get into a fight and they'll get sued and get ticketed for letting their untrained dog run loose, or their dog will end up getting hit by a car.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> You know, we worked really hard on teaching Sinister that he needs to stay in the yard. He is never on a leash and we do not have a fenced in yard (not yet, we will in may/june) and he runs around the yard but does not leave it. We walked him around the yard line so he knows where he can and cant go. He has never left the yard without our permission. It's a shame that other people dont take the time to train their dogs. One day their dog will get into a fight and they'll get sued and get ticketed for letting their untrained dog run loose, or their dog will end up getting hit by a car.


 Exactly! I have no problem with unleashed dog IF they know 1) the limits and 2) they listen their owner.

A car pratically hit the dog last night while he was running all over the streets!!! What do they think? The lady told me it was her daughter's dog....her daughter was aged around 9-10 years old!!!! Don't give her a dog to train at that age lol. It's your responsability to make sure everyone near your house/dog, including your dog, is safe.

Like I said, it's the 3rd time we have to deal with dogs "out of control" and each time, we have to pay for it. After, people come to us and tell us OUR DOG is bad behave and out of control? Go f*ck yourself.....I'm pissed, sorry.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You need to learn to kick any loose dog that comes up to yours, friendly or not, and keep yourself between the dogs.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

LaRen616 said:


> You know, we worked really hard on teaching Sinister that he needs to stay in the yard. He is never on a leash and we do not have a fenced in yard (not yet, we will in may/june) and he runs around the yard but does not leave it. We walked him around the yard line so he knows where he can and cant go. He has never left the yard without our permission. It's a shame that other people dont take the time to train their dogs. One day their dog will get into a fight and they'll get sued and get ticketed for letting their untrained dog run loose, or their dog will end up getting hit by a car.



right on the money


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## HarperGirl (Mar 15, 2010)

Ugh. I was walking Harper a couple days ago and some nutty small-ish dog came running across the road at her. She remained PERFECTLY at my side, kept going, and was a gem. The owner came running out into the road and picked up her dog saying, "Wow, your dog is so well behaved!" I managed to bite my tongue and only say, "We're really working on it, but she's still pretty young." WANTED to say so much more!


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Elaine said:


> You need to learn to kick any loose dog that comes up to yours, friendly or not, and keep yourself between the dogs.


 I tried! Phenix pounds 95lbs....I pound 115lbs lol....when he feels insecured or attacked, I have a hard time to manage him, which start to be better.

I tried to simply continu on my way, but she was running over us....so I stop, made Phenix sit, try to catch his attention. When she was coming closer, I had no choice but to let Phenix do his things and let him approach her to smell her.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I agree. If you don't have good voice control over your dog, do not them them off leash.

Last night I went for a walk with my friend and her Shelite. We came up to a park with 2 border collies chacing a ball - their focus on that ball was amazing and they didn't even glace at our dogs. I've seen them before and they have good voice control over their dogs. 

My friend lets her Shelite off leash - why I have no idea and he immediately runs up to the other dogs barking like crazy. She called him back but he kept on going. She said he knows those dogs and it was fine. The Sheltie joined into the game. I kept our distance (working on issues with Dakota) and worked on the "look at the dog".

I know I would have been upset if someone let their dog rush towards mine like that. I even came straight out and told my friend not to let her dog off leash because he does not have even a hint of a recall. She didn't care.

I even told her that if her dog came up to Dakota like that there is a possiblity that she would go after him. Didn't matter. Her dog meant no harm and that is the way it is.:hammer:


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Caledon said:


> I agree. If you don't have good voice control over your dog, do not them them off leash.
> 
> Last night I went for a walk with my friend and her Shelite. We came up to a park with 2 border collies chacing a ball - their focus on that ball was amazing and they didn't even glace at our dogs. I've seen them before and they have good voice control over their dogs.
> 
> ...


Oh! Well, at least, you tried lol! What people don't realise is that any other dog could be dangerous. Even if their dogs mean no harm, other one could be agressive or insecure. When the recall doesn't work, it's bad, example: if your dog runs like crazy - for any reason - in the street and got hurt by a car because your recall doesn't work....it's sad.

A leash is only a equipment. You should control your dog without it.


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

trish07 said:


> I tried! Phenix pounds 95lbs....I pound 115lbs lol....when he feels insecured or attacked, I have a hard time to manage him, which start to be better.


I don't know what kind of collar you are using, but I use a prong and am able to immediately get control of him when he reacts; just a thought given your size and his.....and I feel your pain....almost everyday!!!!....I live in a rural community that thinks it's fun to allow out of control dogs to run free.....sadly for my boy I couldn't keep one off of him and it jumped him and bit him twice; even kicking it in the head with steel toe boots wasn't enough!!!!....like others say, I am now MORE than prepared with pepper spray, cattle prod or an ASP to take care of the other dog.....I learned the hard way and it's cost me hundreds of dollars and he will never be the same with other dogs.....you are RIGHT to be angry and RIGHT to demand owner's show some respect with control of their animals......for whatever reason, so many people feel they have the right to disrespect my dog and when confronted, suddenly me and my boy are the as* h*!le!!!!! What is wrong with this world!!!!!


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Gib Laut said:


> I don't know what kind of collar you are using, but I use a prong and am able to immediately get control of him when he reacts; just a thought given your size and his.....and I feel your pain....almost everyday!!!!....I live in a rural community that thinks it's fun to allow out of control dogs to run free.....sadly for my boy I couldn't keep one off of him and it jumped him and bit him twice; even kicking it in the head with steel toe boots wasn't enough!!!!....like others say, I am now MORE than prepared with pepper spray, cattle prod or an ASP to take care of the other dog.....I learned the hard way and it's cost me hundreds of dollars and he will never be the same with other dogs.....you are RIGHT to be angry and RIGHT to demand owner's show some respect with control of their animals......for whatever reason, so many people feel they have the right to disrespect my dog and when confronted, suddenly me and my boy are the as* h*!le!!!!! What is wrong with this world!!!!!


We've already tried those type of collars and they didn't work at all. 

Now, I use an Alti harness ( Yahoo! Shopping Search Results for halti harness ), it controls his head, I can turn it the way I want and I feel more in control than with the chocker or any other collars I've tried before.

Anyway, my dog walks great most of the time, he is not pulling on his leash or runing fast in front of me. He walks by my side, looking at me. He made good progress. He didn't bite this dog and he remained more "calm" than before. To me, its a big step, even if he got scared a bit and barked, it is much more better than his "old" attitude.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> You know, we worked really hard on teaching Sinister that he needs to stay in the yard. He is never on a leash and we do not have a fenced in yard (not yet, we will in may/june) and he runs around the yard but does not leave it. We walked him around the yard line so he knows where he can and cant go. He has never left the yard without our permission. It's a shame that other people dont take the time to train their dogs. One day their dog will get into a fight and they'll get sued and get ticketed for letting their untrained dog run loose, or their dog will end up getting hit by a car.



OMG, are you like my long lost twin or something????
LOL


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I think I just might be


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

I would put all my effort into training my dog on how to deal with dogs/owners that do this and try not to worry about people that don't leash their dogs. 

The reason being is simple...in a perfect world everyone would leash their dog in areas where confrontation is possible. 

Sooo...basically, you will run into people that don't leash their dogs. Sucks...but what else can you do besides pushing for stricter laws, and we all know how that works out. 

I'm on our homeowner's association board and have really pushed for reminders to people in newsletters that go out to the homeowners to keep dogs leashed, but it still is a problem considering fences are not allowed.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Elaine said:


> You need to learn to kick any loose dog that comes up to yours, friendly or not, and keep yourself between the dogs.


A couple of things you might want to think about:

I would be really upset if my dog had gotten off his leash accidentally and he came up to you and your dog in a friendly manner and you kicked him. that would definetly lead to a problem real fast.

Second, if you tried that to the wrong dog YOU could quickly get into a real bad situation. Many people do not realize that not all dogs are afraid of people and will not back down if you physically challenge them like that. Some dogs will take that as an attack and fight back very seriously. Are you willing and able to fight a big angry determined unafraid dog?

By getting between the dogs you stand a real good chance of getting yourself bit - by the other dog or even by your own dog in the excitement of the moment.

Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

In some cases you can even get into a fight with the other owner


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

codmaster said:


> I would be really upset if my dog had gotten off his leash accidentally and he came up to you and your dog in a friendly manner and you kicked him. that would definetly lead to a problem real fast.


I expressed these sentiments exactly on a thread about 2 weeks ago and pretty much got a tongue lashing for suggesting it from several....so be forewarned.


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## tatiana (Feb 3, 2010)

Elaine said:


> You need to learn to kick any loose dog that comes up to yours, friendly or not, and keep yourself between the dogs.


I was told by animal control not to do this because of the possibility the dog may turn it's aggression on me. She told me to carry an umbrella, either to use as a club, or swiftly opening it to break a dogs focus and possibly stop an attack. Even open, I've still got the metal point as a weapon.

Body language should tell you whether it's friendly approach or not.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

codmaster said:


> A couple of things you might want to think about:
> 
> I would be really upset if my dog had gotten off his leash accidentally and he came up to you and your dog in a friendly manner and you kicked him. that would definetly lead to a problem real fast.
> 
> ...


if your dog accidentally got off his leash and was hit by a car, would you blame the driver?? it's the same idea. If a dog gets loose, even by accident, there is a chance that bad things will happen to him. If your dog was extremely aggressive and got loose accidentally would you feel the same? 
What about if my leashed dog was extremely aggressive. Would you rather I kick your dog to keep him away or should I just let the fight begin?

sadly, when a dog is loose, rather it's an accident or because the owner doesn't care that he roams, people have no way of knowing that. and there is a good chance that something could happen to him. 

As for the second point, I'd resort to kicking only if there was no other option. I carry an ASP or at least a big stick. Even dogs who aren't afraid of people generally recognize that if someone smacks you with something it's going to hurt. So, yeah, I'm willing to take on an aggressive dog. I had one jump at my face before. It's been the only time that Rayden broke his stay when I placed myself between him and the dog. Of course, the owner was standing on his porch yelling that he was going to call the cops because we hurt his "baby" I never heard anything else about it, but I know that there had to have been a vet visit as the dobe's shoulder had a huge bleeding gash when she fled back to the house. This is actually the incident that started me carrying a weapon with me.

Other than this one time, there has never been any excitement of the moment because I have been prepared. That time, I jerked back and almost fell. That is when my dog felt he needed to protect me. Otherwise, he has ALWAYS been calm in these situations. If I am bitten by a loose dog, you can guarantee that there will be cops involved. 

Will I feel sorry if it was a case of a friendly dog that accidentally slipped his lead? Not really, because friendly dogs that "accidentally" get free don't attack people. If it was my dog, I would be blaming no one buy myself. After all, his protection is my responsibility. So if, even accidentally, I let him into a situation where he did something wrong, there is no one to blame buy myself. 

I don't go around swinging clubs either. When a loose dog approaches, Rayden automatically sits and I step between them. (He always sits automatically as soon as I stop walking) I will yell at the dog to "get" which stops most of them. An authoritative voice and demeanor is usually all it takes and the dog goes elsewhere. Very rarely do they come closer, but for the few that do, if I take a step towards them, they take off. The only dog that I have ever hit (since the dobe) is a beagle. The guy thinks it incredibly amusing to let his dog attack all the other dogs. He walks the dog on a flexi, stands back and encourages it to attack. I stopped and had Rayden in a sit. guy started mocking me, "what you're afraid that he's going to hurt you're dog" The dog was within 2-3 feet when I whacked the snot out of it. Growling, hackling and snarling the entire way up to us with his owner urging him on. Do I regret it? nope. Coz know what? The dog runs back to his owner's side when he sees us coming.

ETA: and I have been on the other side. I have dropped the leash before and Rayden has started to go running off to greet whoever was approaching. I simply called him and told him "COME" and he was back at my side. Rarely do the loose dogs I encounter have anyone with them. If they do, it's someone running frantically behind saying "here boy. here. come. hey. hey.. here. here." Then yelling "Don't worry, he's friendly!" because they know that the dog isn't going to listen to them.


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## jomil (Mar 21, 2010)

i know what you mean my German Shepherd dog was attacked bt two staffies she was 4 months old we were walking round a farm near us and the dogs came from nowhere they jumped on her ans luckily she has a lot puppy fur, my husband kicked the dogs off it took a while. we were fuming with the owner all he said was they don't normally do this anyway their mother was on a lead as she couldn'tbe trusted with other dogs.

A few months later my friend was walking his corgi up the same farm when the same dogs this time all three were off the lead jumped his he was covered in blood the mate said i'm sorry my friend rushed his little dog to te vets he was lucky he has a puncture wound to his neck and eye and his ear was ripped off and now he is deaf in one ear.
I also reported it to the police so did my friend all the police said we can't do anything as it was dog on dog i couldn't believe it well we put a notice up on the farm post about the dogs and a irresponsible owner, at the time there were two women who were walking their dogs they reported it too.
Now i usually walk my dog somewhere different. Also the police did go up the farm and report it to the farmer and gamekeeper to keep a watch out as they have cattle up there.

I know what you mean about other dogs i have my girl on a lead while i keep training her but other people just let their dogs run about un supervised and they let them poo all over and don't clean it up this annoys me too. I always clean up my dog mess

jo


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

I wasn't effraid of that Labrador, I was effraid Phenix could bite him. He is insecure. We are working hard. He makes progress BUT he still nervous.

If he had bite this poor Labrador, I would had problems for sure. I do whatever is possible to manage him, to teach him to trust me, I do my best to make sure we are not going into that kind of situation so nobody could get hurt, but I can't control all other dogs around our house. I can't keep Phenix inside the house because he have some stress issues and MAYBE an unleashed dog could have problem.

When we cross someone in the street, I always make sure there is a good distance between us. At first, Phenix was muzzled, than with progress, I took off his muzzle.

What I mean is....as example, if a kid or somebody is "poking" your dog, you warn to stop, but it continue and your dog bites, what could you do? 

I know it is not a perfect world...I know...but it really pist me off because Phenix acts (in part) like this because of those dogs who attacked him.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

irresponsible dog owners with dogs they didn't
train or socialize. if your dog doesn't know how to behave keep him
or her on a leash. keeping a dog leashed is easy.
i don't why people don't leash. 

"Leash for Peace".

keep working withyour dog. when you have the unleashed
encounters use that time/distraction as a training
moment. work your dog often. good luck.



trish07 said:


> Sincerly, thank god this dog wasn't agressive or insecure because it could have turn really bad. Why, why are you bringing your dog in front of you house unleashed if you know he does not listen to you?
> 
> Just have to share....we are working so hard and it is the second (or third) time that all our work is compromise due to people who are not responsible.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

trish07;1789488
What I mean is....as example said:


> don't just warn them to stop, make them stop. If that means I've got to get in the face of someone else's ill-behaved spawn, then so be it. I've had kids run up and grab Rayden by the face and start shaking his head back and forth. He loves kids, but I still pulled her off him and told her that it was very dangerous. Of course I got the "why do you have a dangerous dog in public then??" from her mother who then got an earful from me.
> 
> I have no problem with stepping up to other people's kids. In a similar situation, I would have no problem with someone telling my kids to knock it off. Of course, I've tried to raise them so that they don't have issues like that.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i was in the bank with my dog. my dog
was well out of the way of the customers.
my dog was lying in a corner and i was at the window.
all of a sudden i hear my dog whining.i turn around and some little kid
(3 to 5 years old ?) was laying across his head. i started to call him
to me but if i did that he would have knocked the little
girl over. i headed towards him but before i could get to him the
little girl got up and moved away. no adult said anything. i was going to give the little girl a childrens size rant.



Dainerra said:


> I've had kids run up and grab Rayden by the face and start shaking his head back and forth. He loves kids, but I still pulled her off him and told her that it was very dangerous.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

this is really, really poor advice.



Elaine said:


> You need to learn to kick any loose dog that comes up to yours, friendly or not, and keep yourself between the dogs.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

a leash is a vital peice of equipment and it 
should be used accordingly. having control
over your dog with no leash is a different
level of training. i think there's more dogs
that need to leashed than there are dogs that
don't need a leash. i think there's more irresponsible
dog owners out there than responsible dog
owners with trained and socialized dogs.


trish07 said:


> A leash is only a equipment. You should control your dog without it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Because I have a problem with dropping things -- had the surgery, now it is worse, I HAVE to have control over my dogs with or without a leash. 

If my dog trailing its leash ran across a street or into another dog owner and got hit or kicked it is my fault. 

It is my job to protect my dog from people and dogs. No way would I take my dog into a bank where the public is allowed and put him on a stay in a corner and wait for him to whine to find a child on top of him. There are just too many ways that can go terribly wrong, like a father over-reacts and thinks he should "beat the Nazi dog off of his baby."

I think that NORMALLY I pay attention to dogs that are not up close and personal and react well before they are within range of a tennis shoe or club. So far by some strange mixture of vigilence, luck, and grace I have not yet had to resort to kicking or clubbing a dog off of mine. I did ask one of the obedience people to watch her dog as I had mine off to my far right and her dog was right up between my knees checking my shirt for any leftovers. But THAT was on lead!!!

People have to pay attention to their dogs on lead or off, whether they have a large and powerful breed, a small or frail breed, or any breed in between. If they have a friendly dog, they need to realize that every other dog on the planet is not just as friendly. They need to realize that if a dog or people aggressive dog is on lead and under control, within it and its owner's self space, the dog can exist in public. And charging into someone else's self space is not just annoying or rude, it is dangerous. 

Too bad court systems do not always uphold this they way they ought to.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> if your dog accidentally got off his leash and was hit by a car, would you blame the driver?? it's the same idea. If a dog gets loose, even by accident, there is a chance that bad things will happen to him. If your dog was extremely aggressive and got loose accidentally would you feel the same?
> What about if my leashed dog was extremely aggressive. Would you rather I kick your dog to keep him away or should I just let the fight begin?
> 
> sadly, when a dog is loose, rather it's an accident or because the owner doesn't care that he roams, people have no way of knowing that. and there is a good chance that something could happen to him.
> ...


What sounds truly amazing is that your dog is under such absolute control! You are to be congragulated strongly for that!

And especially that your dog just sits there calmly while another dog attacks you and you yell and gesture and drive him off. Absolutely amazing control and calmness. I do have to admit that my dog would not be quite so calm if I were being attacked by a dog or for that matter a person!

And also that you can evidently take on any dog yourself and beat him! Again absolutely amazing of you. You actually defeated a Beagle! 

"Would you rather I kick your dog to keep him away or should I just let the fight begin?"

Actually what I would rather is that you read a dog and understand when they are not being aggresive and just curious and/or friendly and let them be. Since you evidently have such absolute control over your own dog, I can't believe that your dog would do anything at all, much less attack a friendly dog trotting up to you - would he?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I worked very hard to get Rayden to the point he is now. as I said, he sits quietly because I scare the dog off before it gets close. The only time we ever had a problem was the dobe. That was when I didn't carry a stick and Rayden ripped the dog's shoulder open. 

He does have an excellent recall. Again, I spent his whole life working on it. If he didn't recall and the other person hit/kicked/maced him? Then, again, it would be my fault not theirs. It's not their responsibility to know if my dog is friendly or not.
He hates small dogs. With a passion. He would like nothing more to kill them all. Mostly because of all the people who think that their cute friendly little Fluffy is friendly. 

Again, would you blame the driver who ran over your dog if you dropped the leash? it's the same idea. 

Again, the reason that he doesn't attack approaching dogs is that I don't let them close to him


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> i was in the bank with my dog. my dog was well out of the way of the customers. my dog was lying in a corner and i was at the window. all of a sudden i hear my dog whining.i turn around and some little kid (3 to 5 years old ?) was laying across his head. i started to call him to me but if i did that he would have knocked the little girl over. i headed towards him but before i could get to him the little girl got up and moved away. no adult said anything. i was going to give the little girl a childrens size rant.


I don't think that the child would have deserved a rant in this situation. The child probably has a friendly dog at home, or has a family member with a friendly dog, and did the same thing to your dog in the bank that she does to the dog she knows at home.

There are two persons, however, who deserve a rant in this situation.

The first of those two is the parent who brought the child into the bank with him or her. The parent should have more common sense than to let their child run rampant in a bank, let alone letting their child run up to a strange dog and begin to lay on it. That is not acceptable at all. Any parent with half a brain should have stopped this behavior immediately.

The second of those is the dog's owner. When you take a dog in public with you, you need to not only have control of the dog, but have eyes on the dog at all times, especially in areas where the public can interact with your dog. When you put your dog in the corner in a stay and turned away from him to do your transaction, you did not have eyes on your dog. Anything could have happened. Someone could have tripped over him or kicked him. He could have bitten the little girl instead of just whining in annoyance. I think what you did was very irresponsible.

I take my dogs to public events and venues all the time and the majority of the time they are leashed AND supervised. I will be the first to know if someone walks up from behind and sneaks a pet in because I can feel my dog's head turning as the sensation travels up the leash. If they are off-leash, they are usually off-leash one at a time and I will have eyes on them, period.

I can trust them to down/stay any place, but I would be an irresponsible owner if I placed them in a down-stay in the corner of a public place and turned away and did not supervise them. Supervision is to protect the dog as much as the public.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I think people should keep their dog on a leash, unless they are in an enclosed area, such as a dog park, fenced front yard, back yard.otherwise, fro the safety of yourself, your dog, others and other people's dogs keep your dog on a leash.

You are very right in this situation.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> I worked very hard to get Rayden to the point he is now. as I said, he sits quietly because I scare the dog off before it gets close.
> He does have an excellent recall. ....
> He hates small dogs. With a passion. He would like nothing more to kill them all. Mostly because of all the people who think that their cute friendly little Fluffy is friendly.
> 
> ...


So now it sounds like you don't really have control over your dog? If a dog came close to him then he would attack and kill it even if you told him to "stay"?

Would I blame the driver of a car if he ran over my dog - it would depend on the situation of course. Under some circumstances, yes and in others no!

Would *you* blame the driver if he ran over your 4 year old child?

*"He would like nothing more to kill them all. Mostly because of all the people who think that their cute friendly little Fluffy is friendly. "*

Why would the fact that people think their dog is friendly make your dog want to kill their dog? How would your dog even know what the other dog's ownerthink?

Why not just train your dog not to attack small dogs? It sounds like you have trained him very well in order to have such iron control over him that you have stated that you have!

BTW, does he attack big dogs or just small ones, when a strange comes up to him?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

no, the fact is that most people think that their dog is friendly and that isn't always the case. best case scenario, the dog isn't aggressive, just very poorly mannered with no social skills.

Rayden has been attacked before. If he didn't trust me to take care of the situation, then I wouldn't be surprised if he would defend himself. Through lots of hard work, he knows that I will protect him and keep him safe. Therefore, he sits and waits for me to make the other dog go away. He will get aggressive with any dog that gets in his face. He most hates small dogs, though, probably because 99% of the dogs that choose to challenge him are small dogs. would he kill it? doubtfully because I'm not going to just say "oh well, too late" and let him have at it. That's part of being in control of my dog. 

He doesn't just run around attacking small dogs. as long as they don't jump on him and get directly in his face he pretends they don't exist. When they insist on doing that, he knows that I will make them go away so that he doesn't have to. If rude boorish people kept getting in your face, would you not make them go away? 
He is fine with dogs that he knows and knows are friendly. He was fine even with my old neighbor's small dogs. 

about my child being run over. If my child ran into the street because I accidentally let them out of my sight, the #1 person on my blame list would be myself. If the other driver was drunk, doing 50 in a 35, and driving on the sidewalk, then yes it would be their fault. but is it anyone's fault if a child runs in front of your car? or if a loose dog runs in front of your car? As long as you are driving safely, then what about it makes it "your fault" Now, if I let my child or dog run into the street, then no one is to blame but me.

it's just something we will have to disagree on. I believe it is my fault if something happens to my dog if he gets loose, even by accident. I believe it's my fault if he were to get loose and attack another dog. Or just start a fight by being rude and getting in another dogs face.
I would blame myself if I let a fight happen because I let another dog approach him as well.

If Bob's dog gets loose and won't leave my dog alone, then that is Bob's fault, not mine.

ETA: he obviously doesn't know or likely care what the other owner thinks. But, 99.9% of people seem to believe that their dog is friendly. they shout it from the rooftops, even though their dog is stretched to the end of its leash, snarling and growling and obviously NOT looking to make friends.

ETAA: I hate not being able to get all my thoughts out at once. 
Rayden is friendly with dogs that he is introduced to. that obviously doesn't include loose dogs that come tearing up the street, jumping on him and sticking their nose up his butt.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

see, I've done it again..

There is also a big difference between "friendly" and "ill-mannered"
a dog can be friendly and non-aggressive, but can still start fights by being rude and ill-mannered. A lot of the ones I've met who aren't "aggressive" are like drunk guys at a bar. They get right in your face, jumping and pawing, and won't take No for an answer.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Dainerra
> As for the second point, I'd resort to kicking only if there was no other option.


Dainerra, an important distinction is that you're using this as a last option rather than your 1st reaction. Several suggestions were of the 'attack 1st, think later' ilk. Human 'fear biters' are as problematic as the canine version. JMO.

AbbyK9, you're absolutely right. Adults s/b constantly aware of their canine & human charges when out & about. It's better to prevent problems than to have to solve them.

Trish07, remember that Phenix is hyper aware of all you're thinking, feeling & _fearing_. Give yourself some well deserved credit. You handled the situation. You kept both yourself & Phenix safe. Allow yourself to feel some confidence. Know that you did this & can do it again if necessary. Absolutely have a game plan for those 'what if' situations but developing confidence Phenix can rely on s/b a big part of that. Assess & take credit for your considerable progress. Claim your success & let it be a meaningful part of you. Phenix will sense this & find it reassuring.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

RudyTuesday, maybe it just comes off like that? I don't think that most of the posters just stand there and wait to see if the dog is going to go away and then kick it. or maybe they do. I only stress that I try other things first since a lot of people assume that is what you do - just wait and then kick it. 
Since the goal of all of us "kickers" is to keep an unknown dog away from ours, it wouldn't make since to try to scare it away BEFORE it got close. By the time a dog gets within kicking range, it could be already too late depending on the dogs involved


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Trish07, remember that Phenix is hyper aware of all you're thinking, feeling & _fearing_. Give yourself some well deserved credit. You handled the situation. You kept both yourself & Phenix safe. Allow yourself to feel some confidence. Know that you did this & can do it again if necessary. Absolutely have a game plan for those 'what if' situations but developing confidence Phenix can rely on s/b a big part of that. Assess & take credit for your considerable progress. Claim your success & let it be a meaningful part of you. Phenix will sense this & find it reassuring.


Thanks a lot. Really appreciated. You practically made me cry lol....feels good to hear....I know I'm doing good, I can see it with Phenix new attitude....but ****.....it's hard sometime.

I love my dog with every beat of my heart.....but I have a hard time to trust him now. I know he is not a bad dog. He isn't borned agressive and there is a reason for this agressivity....

I live in an appartment and I leave with the fear that one day, the owner could ask us to leave or to get ride of Phenix. I live in the fear that my dog could hate children and I want to have one in a few years (2 or 3). I'm also haunt of two beautifull childrej and I'm unable to trust my dog toward them (he never, NEVER, showed agressivity towars them, but he had shown some toward a little boy living in front of my house and my owner's little girl).

All this, with my emotional side lol and, ok, I'm perfectionist lol, is hard to manage....I'll try to do my best again and for sure, I will always be at Phenix's side, never let him alone with this.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

trish07 said:


> Thanks a lot. Really appreciated. You practically made me cry lol....feels good to hear....I know I'm doing good, I can see it with Phenix new attitude....but ****.....it's hard sometime.
> 
> I love my dog with every beat of my heart.....but I have a hard time to trust him now. I know he is not a bad dog. He isn't borned agressive and there is a reason for this agressivity....
> 
> ...


Trish - You incorrectly credited me with the quote in your message! You might want to check the earlier posting!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Anyone who kicks a dog who is not actively on the attack deserves to get their foot bitten!

Different if the dog is really attacking you or your dog, of course!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

why is it ok for an ill-mannered dog to molest other dogs? I'm talking about dogs that jump on, paw at, stick noses up the other dogs' butts, won't take no for an answer? This is 99.9% of the loose dogs we've met. The others are actively aggressive.

If they won't leave when told to "go home" and persist on climbing all over my dog, then yes they're going to get hit.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I wouldn't hit the dog, I would feel bad and the other dog's owner may get mad.I would try to get the dog off myself or nudge it.And I would ask the owner and say "Hey! Get over here and get your dog off mine!" or "Can you please help me get your dog off mine!"


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## green family (Mar 22, 2010)

Ah I totally know how you feel. Our neighbor always lets her pit run wild through the neighborhood!!!! She already had one get hit by a car and killed, another was stolen and now this one is on the same path. They always come into our yard and terrify our chickens and upset my dogs!!!! Heaven forbid I have our 2 yr old GSD outside because he jumps all over her and I can NOT get him away and it makes her go crazy as well. We have been over there many times to bring the dog back home, but she will simply let him follow us right back over to our house. Ugh. I hate stupid irresponsible people!!!!


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

I only thought there were "weird cat people" before I started coming to this forum. 

After a few weeks on here I now know there are "weird dog people" too. 

Most of the advice on here is excellent but new members should be aware there is a lot of terrible advice on here. Sorry if I am out of line. If I am...delete the post.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> why is it ok for an ill-mannered dog to molest other dogs? I'm talking about dogs that jump on, paw at, stick noses up the other dogs' butts, won't take no for an answer? This is 99.9% of the loose dogs we've met. The others are actively aggressive.If they won't leave when told to "go home" and persist on climbing all over my dog, then yes they're going to get hit.


If only .1% of the dogs that you encounter running loose are aggressive, then I would consider yourself very lucky! That seems like very few.

As far as "stick noses up the other dogs' butt", I would like to inform you that that is considered socially acceptable behavior among dogs greeting each other in a friendly way! Almost all of the time when two dogs do this, they do not fight!

Why would you expect a strange dog to understand what "go home" spoken by you, a stranger, means?

If a friendly dog comes up to your dog simply to say "hi" - why would you react so violently and want to hit them? Sounds like a "red zone" case in the human.

Is your dog afraid of all other dogs - I can see that as a possible reason to try so hard to keep all other dogs away from them but don't really see any other reason for such behavior.

I have a 2+ yo male GSD who doesn't like certain other dogs; but he is not afraid and I have had him meet a number of other loose dogs while out walking and all is well with them. I kind of take my reaction to other dogs from him - if he is ok with them then I am. But I can see where someone with a real fearful dog might tend to react differently. 

BTW, I also favor carrying a short club "just in case".


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

green family said:


> Ah I totally know how you feel. Our neighbor always lets her pit run wild through the neighborhood!!!! She already had one get hit by a car and killed, another was stolen and now this one is on the same path. They always come into our yard and terrify our chickens and upset my dogs!!!! Heaven forbid I have our 2 yr old GSD outside because he jumps all over her and I can NOT get him away and it makes her go crazy as well. We have been over there many times to bring the dog back home, but she will simply let him follow us right back over to our house. Ugh. I hate stupid irresponsible people!!!!


I would call animal control on that woman.if someone gets bit she will have a lawsuit.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

it's not "friendly behavior" or normal dog behavior to continue sticking their nose there if the other dog tries to move away. I've had nosy dogs actually lift Rayden's rear off the ground trying to sniff him. 

I know most of the dogs around here, would have no idea who they belong to though. There is no leash law in the county so most dogs just roam where ever they please. Most dogs if you yell "Go home" turn and go the other way. A few ignore it and keep coming. Of those, most are the "hi hi hi hi hi" even if we are walking they will follow along, jumping on Rayden's back, sniffing his butt, trying to crawl under him to sniff his belly, etc. Rayden doesn't respond well to that and quickly gets aggressive. And, before anyone asks, yes I've stopped to let him meet other dogs he always reacts aggressively with those type of dogs.

All the dogs he likes greet the same way. Sniff face to face, then move on to sniffing privates. They don't just come out of nowhere and stick their nose up each other's butts. 

So, it's either I drive them away or I have a dog fight on my hands. So, over the last 6 years, I've learned to go with what works. Except for the beagle, the most I've had to do is act like I'm going to kick or throw something at them. 

makes me miss WV sometimes. sure, there were a few loose dogs, but they stayed within a short distance of their homes. But, they never lasted long anyway. There, loose dogs are shot by the game warden on sight.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> I've had nosy dogs actually lift Rayden's rear off the ground trying to sniff him.
> All the dogs he likes greet the same way. Sniff face to face, then move on to sniffing privates. They don't just come out of nowhere and stick their nose up each other's butts.
> So, it's either I drive them away or I have a dog fight on my hands. So, over the last 6 years, I've learned to go with what works. Except for the beagle, the most I've had to do is act like I'm going to kick or throw something at them.
> makes me miss WV sometimes. ...


I see where you would miss WV. Sounds like a nice place - where loose dogs are shot on sight - most places that would bring a very quick law suit.

So it sounds like Rayden is pretty fearful and dog aggressive, and it also sounds like you shouldn't let him too close to most other dogs.

How do the "nosy" dogs get close enough to "lift his rear off the ground"? From what you said, it doesn't seem like any dog would be able to get by you to be able to touch your dog!

So it sounds like if the strange dog comes up to your dog face to face it is ok with you and with your dog? Neither you or Rayden will attack the other dog in that case?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

actually, it's the law in WV. loose dogs are considered a menace to deer and livestock. Game wardens and cops are authorized to shoot on sight. the people who let their dogs wander will also shoot their own dogs or any other dog if they think the dog has started running deer. 

So, no, it won't bring a lawsuit of any kind. The reason that I miss it is that people don't let their dogs roam free. You might see some farm dogs now and again, but like I said, nothing like you see down here. Within sight of my house right now, I can see 4 dogs just roaming around the trailer park across the street. The number constantly changes as they get hit on the highway and the people bring in new puppies. Most of them only last a couple months.

" How do the "nosy" dogs get close enough to "lift his rear off the ground"? From what you said, it doesn't seem like any dog would be able to get by you to be able to touch your dog! "
I'm talking about how, over the 6 years of his life, I've learned what he will/won't tolerate. I used to let dogs that seemed friendly approach him. Dogs that approached him face to face he has always been fine with. A lot of loose roaming dogs, however, seem to always want to sneak up behind and we ended up turning in a circle. Now, I don't even bother with loose dogs. Their owners don't care enough to keep them out of the street/highway, so I doubt that they have their shots, let alone any type of training. 

I prefer to let my dog make friends with dogs that I know. You know, that have shots and training. not loose (possibly infested/infected) dogs that just happen to be roaming the area


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Is your dog afraid of all other dogs - I can see that as a possible reason to try so hard to keep all other dogs away from them but don't really see any other reason for such behavior.
> 
> I have a 2+ yo male GSD who doesn't like certain other dogs; but he is not afraid and I have had him meet a number of other loose dogs while out walking and all is well with them. I kind of take my reaction to other dogs from him - if he is ok with them then I am. But I can see where someone with a real fearful dog might tend to react differently.


I realize this was aimed at Dainerra, but I would like to put in my two cents.

I have two dogs, Ronja (Malinois) and Abby (German Shepherd). Both are great on leash and off leash, and they're great with other dogs. I do take them to the dog park on occasion, but we go during times when there are not too many other dogs, as many people don't properly supervise theirs and don't understand the difference between being friendly, playing rough, and things getting out of hand.

That said, I would never allow someone's off-leash dog to rush at mine when we are out walking on leash. I also don't appreciate it when people let their leashed dogs wander right up to my dogs, usually at the end of a Flexi lead, without even asking whether mine are friendly or whether I mind their dog coming up to say "hi".

This has nothing to do with my dogs and how they behave and everything with the other dogs and their behavior. 

First, when I am taking a leashed walk with my dogs, it's generally for exercise. I have no interest in stopping to play the greeting game, and I certainly won't stop and let them off leash so they can play with a strange dog.

Second, I don't know whether the strange dog has been vaccinated, whether he (or she) carries any kind of contagious disease, or whether the strange dog is friendly. A lot can be told from the way a dog approaches, but some dogs are difficult to read and some dogs approach friendly and then go to dominance/aggression very easily.

Third, I know that when my dogs are leashed and expected to behave, that can make them feel like they are trapped when they encounter a dog that is behaving badly. Nobody likes a little yappy dog jumping in their face, or a large dog coming up and taking a dominant stance. I don't like it and I don't expect my dogs to like it. 

As a dog owner, it's my job to protect my dogs. I don't care if your dog is friendly and "just wants to say hi". It's bad manners to let your dog roam or run off-leash without supervision, and it's bad manners to let your dog run up to another dog you don't know without asking the owner. If those people don't get that it's bad manners, it's my job to step in, ensure my dogs' safety, and prevent these things from occurring.

The easiest way to prevent an unwanted encounter with an off-leash, unsupervised dog is to place your own dog in a sit/stay, position yourself in front of your dog, facing the oncoming dog, and telling the loose dog "NO! GO HOME!" Nine times out of ten, that is all that is needed to stop and turn around a loose dog. The tenth time, the dog continues to approach. And I would have no qualms whatsoever to use whatever means I have available to keep the dog away - waving an umbrella or a stick, for example. And yes, if the dog persists or is being aggressive, hitting a dog.

When you encounter a dog on leash that is allowed to wander and approach your dog without asking, I've found that putting my dog in a sit/stay and telling the owner that I don't want them to be approached works pretty well.



> I wouldn't hit the dog, I would feel bad and the other dog's owner may get mad.I would try to get the dog off myself or nudge it.And I would ask the owner and say "Hey! Get over here and get your dog off mine!" or "Can you please help me get your dog off mine!"


I think your reaction would depend on the situation.

If the other person's dog is attacking yours, would you tell the owner, "Get over here and get your dog off mine"? Would you nudge the dog, risking to be bitten if your hands get somewhere in between the two dogs? I know I wouldn't. My job is to protect MY dog and if my dog is being attached, you can bet that I won't be nice about it, I will do whatever it takes to get the dog doing the attacking off mine.

If someone's loose dog comes up and obviously wants to play or just greet your dog, that would be a very different situation, but I would still prevent the dog from getting to mine, rather than having to separate the two. After all, I don't know anything about the health or temperament of the dog that is approaching.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

AbbyK9 said:


> If someone's loose dog comes up and obviously wants to play or just greet your dog, that would be a very different situation, but I would still prevent the dog from getting to mine, rather than having to separate the two. After all, I don't know anything about the health or temperament of the dog that is approaching.


thanks for saying that.  You said it a million times better than I did. 

Trying to let the dogs play "the greeting game" as you called it is the biggest reason that Rayden developed this dislike that he has. It's all the work of building his trust that I won't other dogs molest him that makes me so protective of him now.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Trish - You incorrectly credited me with the quote in your message! You might want to check the earlier posting!


Oups, I noticed too lately. thx 



green family said:


> Ah I totally know how you feel. Our neighbor always lets her pit run wild through the neighborhood!!!! She already had one get hit by a car and killed, another was stolen and now this one is on the same path. They always come into our yard and terrify our chickens and upset my dogs!!!! Heaven forbid I have our 2 yr old GSD outside because he jumps all over her and I can NOT get him away and it makes her go crazy as well. We have been over there many times to bring the dog back home, but she will simply let him follow us right back over to our house. Ugh. I hate stupid irresponsible people!!!!


 Wow! I would have call the animal control for sure. This person is totaly irresponsible. Someone or a dog could get bite or her dog could get bite or hit.

Well, I can see I'm not to only one with this problem and it is a sensitive discussion. We all react differently to situation...and the most important, we try our best to protect our dogs and ourselves.

Laws should be more strict.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Abbyk9, I too agree with your quote. Just because a dog looks friendly, and my dog is unlikely to attack does not mean I want them sniffing noses and butts and maybe passing a disease or getting into an altercation. 

I have enough dogs at home that mine do not need strange dogs to run about with their own kind. 

I also have enough dogs at home to bankrupt me if I have to pay for a major illness through the lot of them. 

I also show my dogs and do not want them to think that every time they see another dog it is play time. 

So if it actually came down to it, I would kick a dog to keep it away from mine. I would try other things first, but no way would I let it get all the way to my dog. Sorry. And it would be 100% the fault of the careless owner that let it run around free, or let it get loose.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> So if it actually came down to it, I would kick a dog to keep it away from mine. I would try other things first, but no way would I let it get all the way to my dog. Sorry. And it would be 100% the fault of the careless owner that let it run around free, or let it get loose.


No, it would be at least 50% YOUR fault that the dog was kicked since you are the one doing the kicking!

If the dog is agressive and going to attack, that is one thing but absolutely quite another if the dog approaching is clearly friendly.

I guess that you would think that it would be ok then to kick kids that come up to your dog also.

It is good that my dog will never come close to your dog, because if anyone does try to kick him for no good reason; I would be forced to kick them (assuming that my dog didn't just latch on the leg that is coming at them).


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Children are not dogs and there are few things I child could pass to my dogs to cause the whole lot of them to get seriously ill. 

Evenso, being kicked by me is probably less damage than if my dog were to bite yours. And then a fight ensue. That would be totally your fault and I would definitely sue if my dog was leashed and yours came up free and mine attacked, and both dogs were injured. 

Just keep your dog under control if you do not want it to get run over or kicked. 

CHILDREN ARE NOT DOGS. DOGS ARE NOT CHILDREN. This is a rediculous use of comparison.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> I guess that you would think that it would be ok then to kick kids that come up to your dog also.


Codmaster - I am not sure where you are getting the idea that everyone in this thread would kick a dog first and then ask questions later. I am reading the posts, and as far as I can tell, nobody has advocated kicking a dog as the first solution - however, if everything else fails (telling the dog to stop, placing yourself between the dogs, calling to the owner), why would it not be a reasonable response to protect your own?

It is my duty to my dogs to protect them from harm. Harm comes in many forms. It can come in the form of an aggressive dog, it can come in the form of a sick dog. I don't know what a strange dog's temperament or health are like when it approaches, and therefore make certain it will not get close enough to my dogs to sniff butts, touch noses, or attack them. That is my job and my dogs look to me to protect them.

Let's look at it this way. If you are in public and letting your dog run off-leash, do you consider it to be okay and good manners to allow your dog to run up to other dogs that are leashed without asking the owner? If so, WHY? Why is that acceptable? 

If you think it's acceptable, you probably should not be surprised that most other dog owners don't share your belief and will stop your dog. If another dog owner is clearly trying to stop your dog from approaching theirs - by body language, by telling the dog NO, by yelling at YOU to come get your dog - and you do nothing, it's YOUR fault if your dog gets kicked. It's your responsibility to protect your dog by keeping it leashed, calling it back off leash, and asking before you meet another dog.

If you were in public with your children, would you allow them to run up to strange dogs without asking the owner if it's okay? If so, WHY? Do you believe that is acceptable?

I encounter kids quite frequently and both of my dogs are fine with kids. However, that doesn't mean I am going to let every Susie and Bobby I encounter along the way come up and pet - and certainly not without asking. It's easy to stop a child from petting. Usually, the generally accepted "stop" hand signal along with "Please do not pet my dog." works quite well. With strange dogs, I don't always have the option to tell them it's not okay to approach or that I don't want them approaching ... they lack the language skills to understand (though most know "NO!").

I have encountered some really stupid parents along the way who would tell their children it's okay to go pet my dog and sent them over. Really? Okay with whom? I certainly was neither asked nor did I give permission. I'm usually more than happy to point out to them that No, it is NOT okay to pet my dog without asking, and they have no right to assume their kids are welcome to do so simply because I have a well-behaved dog and am walking in public with them.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Nothing annoys me more than coming face to face with dogs that are off leash. 

I consider myself a responsible dog owner, and mine are always on leash unless I'm in an area where I "know" there are no other dogs /people that we'll come in contact with. 

Firstly, some people are petrifed of gsd's, that's just the way it is, and I certainly don't want mine, running up to someone and scaring them silly just "because". 

Second, Masi does NOT appreciate strange dogs coming into her face, sniffing her butt or otherwise, so to keep YOUR friendly dog safe, I am going to say something to an owner who has no control over their dog. 

A HUGE peeve of mine is them yelling "oh mine is friendly",,well I don't really care, I don't know YOU, I don't know your dog, I do however know mine, and if your friendly fido comes charging up in her face, if I can't block it, something not so good is gonna happen)

I can take my dogs anywhere and know they will mind their own business and I expect that simple courtesy to be returned. Of course accidents happen and that's a different type of situation.

I soooooo appreciate those owners, or parents who ask first, and I always THANK them for asking. It just shows good manners and doggie education in my book. 

I am all for, if you can't control your dog it should be on a leash)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> Children are not dogs and there are few things I child could pass to my dogs to cause the whole lot of them to get seriously ill.
> 
> Evenso, being kicked by me is probably less damage than if my dog were to bite yours. And then a fight ensue. That would be totally your fault and I would definitely sue if my dog was leashed and yours came up free and mine attacked, and both dogs were injured. Just keep your dog under control if you do not want it to get run over or kicked.
> 
> CHILDREN ARE NOT DOGS. DOGS ARE NOT CHILDREN. This is a rediculous use of comparison.


Selzer, I do have to agree that "children are not dogs". 

But what *would* you do to a child, say 6 yo, who came up to your dog while he was leashed and started bothering him? 

If you could just think about it, it IS NOT such a ridiculous comparison as you might think. Unless of course the major reason you don't want a dog to come up to your dog is that you are afraid that your dog might catch a disease - sounds like that is the case from what you said. I assume that you do vaccinate your dog, don't you? So that shouldn't be a major worry. 

If I had a fearful dog, I think I would be more worried about another dog attacking my dog than about him getting sick.

BTW, how did you get to my dog getting run over? Bad enough you want to kick my dog, now you want to run him over too?

BTW2, if you or anyone else were to try to kick my dog or otherwise act that crazy and aggressively to him; unless you were trained in fighting a big dog, I suspect that you would be in real danger of being bitten. He will defend himself and I doubt whether he would worry about a lawsuit while in the act of defending himself!

But fortunately we will never possibly see anything like that. Good luck on your dog walks and may you never run into any free running dogs. they certainly can be a pain and it is hard to act rationally when they are bothering the walker with a leashed dog.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I hate it when people compare humans to dogs.Its ridiculous.They are 2 different things.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

a 6 year old child, even one that is 4 years old, understands the concept of stop. If they continued, then YES I would physically stop them. kick them? no, but grab an arm and pull them away. right before I warned their parent to cover the kids ears and gave them a very large piece of my mind.

The dogs I see, though, aren't with anyone. They are loose dogs that roam everywhere. The people get dogs, turn them loose to roam, then replace them when they get run over or disappear. 

I consider it only appropriate that people control their dogs. I keep my dog controlled, don't let him bother others or roam freely where ever he pleases. he is only off-leash in very controlled areas where I know it's safe. 

It's a simple matter of common courtesy. Nothing more or less.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> a 6 year old child, even one that is 4 years old, understands the concept of stop.


Not sure what you meant here - "a 6 year old child even one who is 4 years old"?

Many kids today may understand the concept of "stop" or "No" but just ignore it. 

And in my neck of the woods, if you put your hands on a strange kid, you are really asking for a lawsuit and/or a really irate parent.

Why not just take your totally under control dog away and out of harms way - or maybe just tell him to "stay" esp. if the dog is under such iron control?

At any rate, dealing with off leash temptations while one is out walking the dog is often a very interesting exercise. Just today we had a little incident with a pit bull puppy who came running up to us. Fortunately a very very friendly little guy who got along great with my dog.


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

My GSD was about 10 months old, playing at a dog park when a very large, very alpha male malamute and his pack (yes, his pack! 5 smaller husky/mal types) began circling her. Before I could get to her they were on her like white on rice. I ran yelling into the roil and was pulling dogs off of her, kicking, grabbing collars, throwing them, etc. Finally chased the pack off, and guess what? The owner of these dogs had the nerve to accost ME for kicking his dogs. He got right in my face about it, but I had had ENOUGH and got right back in his. He had broken every dog park rule we had: all dogs must be registered - no visitors (none of his dogs was registered with the park, they were able to access the park because the electronic lock on the gate had been broken for quite a while and he knew about it), only 2 dogs to a handler (he had 6 or 7), no aggression (his dogs had been aggressive multiple times), and being aware and responsilble for your dog at all times. Luckily, Echo made out with only a minor laceration on her face (no sutures needed), and she was resiliant enough to be back at the park the next day with no after-effects. Stupid people with their uncontrolled, aggressive dogs.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

people can sue for anything that they want. that doesn't mean that anything will come of it. having my dog in a stay won't stop someone from bothering him. 
actually, I have done exactly that before. a little girl came running from out of the crowd and just grabbed Rayden by the face and started jerking his head back and forth. He loves all kids, but that didn't stop me from removing said child from his face. and yes, her mother and I did have words. and guess who the cops told to get an attitude adjustment? Mom.
*
Not sure what you meant here - "a 6 year old child even one who is 4 years old"?* even a CHILD that is 4 years old.

I think that you and I are speaking a totally different language of "loose" dogs. You seem to be talking about someone's pet that has accidentally gotten out of the yard. I'm talking about loose dogs that spend their entire short lives roaming free and eating road kill. The people get a puppy, turn it loose, dump some food outside now and again, but the dog lives it's whole life roaming. There are about 5 dogs in the trailer park across the street and 0 dog houses. The dogs all just sleep where ever. Until they get in the road and run over. Then the people just go get a new "free to good home" dog and it begins again.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

EchoGSD said:


> My GSD was about 10 months old, playing at a dog park when a very large, very alpha male malamute and his pack (yes, his pack! 5 smaller husky/mal types) began circling her. Before I could get to her they were on her like white on rice. I ran yelling into the roil and was pulling dogs off of her, kicking, grabbing collars, throwing them, etc. Finally chased the pack off, and guess what? The owner of these dogs had the nerve to accost ME for kicking his dogs. He got right in my face about it, but I had had ENOUGH and got right back in his. He had broken every dog park rule we had: all dogs must be registered - no visitors (none of his dogs was registered with the park, they were able to access the park because the electronic lock on the gate had been broken for quite a while and he knew about it), only 2 dogs to a handler (he had 6 or 7), no aggression (his dogs had been aggressive multiple times), and being aware and responsilble for your dog at all times. Luckily, Echo made out with only a minor laceration on her face (no sutures needed), and she was resiliant enough to be back at the park the next day with no after-effects. Stupid people with their uncontrolled, aggressive dogs.


Wow! Great to hear that your dog was not hurt too bad. that sounds like it could have been a disaster! lucky you yourself were not hurt either. that was a very brave thing you did for your dog! Maybe you should start bringing a club with you when you go to the dog park, just in case!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Dainerra said:


> people can sue for anything that they want. that doesn't mean that anything will come of it. having my dog in a stay won't stop someone from bothering him.
> actually, I have done exactly that before. a little girl came running from out of the crowd and just grabbed Rayden by the face and started jerking his head back and forth. He loves all kids, but that didn't stop me from removing said child from his face. and yes, her mother and I did have words. and guess who the cops told to get an attitude adjustment? Mom.
> 
> *Not sure what you meant here - "a 6 year old child even one who is 4 years old"?* even a CHILD that is 4 years old.
> ...


Sounds like you are actually dealing with almost feral dogs!
Good luck!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> But what *would* you do to a child, say 6 yo, who came up to your dog while he was leashed and started bothering him?


I would move out of the range of the 6 yo's leash, LOL! 

No really, one would think that I have never been accosted by children. I am hypervigilent when I am out with my dogs. If a child asks me politely AND the dog is one who I feel 100% confident around children AND the dog has not been through the wringer already, than I allow children to pet him. Otherwise, I head them off at the pass. 

If their course is set to collide with my dog, I change my course so that it will not collide. If the child changes its course to collide again, I stop and wait (to see if they will ask). While they still have plenty of time to change their purpose but seem to have no intention of asking, I block access to my dog. I have never had a child go beyond my body block to get to my dog. 

I have had nasty looks from parents for not allowing their little darlings to mess with my little darling. But I do not care. 

I have never had to physically handle a child. 

Dogs are different. If you block a dog's access they will most likely try to go around you to get to your dog. Sometimes they will accept your yelling, sometimes not.

I do not want to kick a dog, but if the dog is coming and does not respond to yelling, its owners are not trying to reel it in, it is not stopping from the body block, I have to protect my dog.

I AM afraid of diseases. Do I KNOW that your dog does not have kennel caugh or brucellosis or canine herpies? I do not. My dogs are not vaccinated against any of these. The herpies is not a big deal as a fever of 103 knocks it out, though dogs can then shed the virus off and on afterwards. Most people never know that their dog has had it. 103 is not very high considering the average 102 degree temp. However, puppies do not have a 102 degree temperature and canine herpies can wipe out an entire litter. 

So yes, I do not want my dogs sniffing other dogs. It IS dangerous to some of us. Not every disease out there has a vaccination. 

Dogs that are running free to accost my dogs, are also running free to get run over. Some people deliberately run over dogs. But as for four year olds, if they slip out between parked cars into traffic, you may never see them. You many not be able to stop. 

Parents and owners need to stop blaming everyone else and take responsibility for those in their care.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

It's all well and good when you are walking your GSD and a strange dog approaches. If worse came to worse your dog could probably defend itself, at least long enough to allow YOU to get in there and help them.

But when you are walking a dog that weighs less than a sack of flour ...

When I'm walking Spike or Kaynya (without Mauser) I am VERY aware of other dogs. If a dog was to charge up to us, off leash, I would act first and apologize later (if necessary).

My 10 pound dog is going to be NO match for a dog even TWICE his size, let alone a large breed dog.

I yell at the approaching dog, I put myself between mine and them and I WILL physically stop that dog if I have to.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

> Many people do not realize that not all dogs are afraid of people and will not back down if you physically challenge them like that. Some dogs will take that as an attack and fight back very seriously. *Are you willing and able to fight a big angry determined unafraid dog?
> *
> *By getting between the dogs you stand a real good chance of getting yourself bit* - by the other dog or even by your own dog in the excitement of the moment.


I will do whatever it takes to protect my dogs as I am their protector, they look to me for direction and guidance. I will *always* get infront of my dogs when a loose dog comes up to us on a walk. I wont take any chances of letting my dogs get hurt even if it means I get hurt in the process.

I've had many loose dogs come charging at us. And each and everytime I will shout, wave my arms, appear threatening to the unknown dog to make them think twice about coming after us and each time they've always ran away. It's always best to remain calm, people forget this. 

I've had dogs who appear friendly following us, had to keep a good eye on those dogs. I've never had to say anything as they keep their distance but it's always strange, then after a while they just leave. 

I remember a few years ago when I was on my bike I had Cody with me and a huge Rotty comes running up to us and a Lady standing in the door way just says "Oh he wont bite he's friendly" $#*%#$*$*&^$ I was like how do you know if mine is or isn't?!?!?(Cody is fine around dogs it's when they come charging at us aggressively or try to dominate him) I put my bike in between me and Cody and the dog and the whole time this lady is just standing there. I finally had to give it a good whack on the butt and it ran back. The lady started to say something but I shouted that MY dog is on a leash and her's isn't, she thought that through and just shut the door behind her. Some people.....

Just the other day a pug came whriling around a car in the driveway that some guy was working on and this dog was just about to attack my dogs, at least the guy was fast enough to catch it and all he said was "Oh I'm sorry.." Uhhh no you're not. 

These two dogs that live around me are always wondering away from there house. Suddenly the chow mix comes charging at us doing the "wooowooowoo" which it looked fearful and I put my dogs behind me and started yelling "GAAAHHHH, GEET" and that dog thankfully ran back to it's yard. This has happened at least 3 times now. Those owners are lucky it was me who is not afraid to protect my dogs and not a lady with a child, things could have been worse.... I've noticed that they have started to keep their gates shut..

These are just the few that have happened to me. So you are not alone! 

The only offleash dogs that don't bother me when I'm walking my dogs are the ones that actually stay in there yard. There use to be a shepherd that lived a few blocks from me and she would lay in her yard everytime I saw her and she would look at us then go back to whatever she was doing.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

I have to say.....I probably failed at protecting my dog a few times.....

When he was young and we were going to the dog park, I wanted not to overprotect him and cause him insecureness. So, I didn't protect him all the time another dog was playing too roughly with him. I made sure it was a game, but I thought he had to built his own caracter and not always be under "momy's skirt" 

I don't know if I made an error by doing this...but a lot of owners do bad too when they are peting their dog while they are insecure or fearfull.

I was thinking "If any bad dog attack him, I will protect him for sure"....but guess what....when this happened....I was too far and I wasn't there for him....:headbang:

When I saw this 140 pounds female attacking Phenix...I freezed. She was so agressive, she was so huge. Everybody in the park was terrified by what was happening. The owner tried to call back his dog, but she didn't care at all. My dog was screaming.....I will NEVER forget that sound, never. As I'm writing this, I feel bad, I feel...sad.

I think this is why Phenix has a hard time to trust me, and I can understand. I wasn't there when he need it. 

If I could had do something, I would, for SURE, kicked her and sprayed her with my pepper spray.

Now, my dog is agressive towards other and have a few issues with strangers, even children. I have no choice but to make sure everyone is safe when I walk Phenix. I can't let people or dog approach him for the moment. I work hard to change the situation, and this time, I wont let him fell.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I have to say that if some random dog that I did not know came running up to my dog in a not so friendly way, I would defend my dog in a heartbeat. I love all animals, especially dogs and would never hurt one UNLESS they attacked my animals or they attack me. I dont think I know anyone that wouldn't protect their animals.


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## CampPappy (Sep 10, 2007)

The sad part is, the loose dog has undone a lot of the training you've put into Phenix! He's already reactive and now he has a bad experience with another dog. Even tho the other dog only wanted to play, it still created stress for Phenix. That's what makes me so mad. It takes so much time and training and within a few seconds, you have a big set-back.
When our rescue Gretchen was young, she hated men. I would walk her daily in open mall areas and ask men to give her a treat, after explaining her issues. She was making great progress until one day a man says...."Oh I LOVE dogs" and reaches down to hug her! She freaked out, but didn't bite......I could have smacked him! All that training and then that happens.....GEEEEEEEZ!


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

CampPappy said:


> The sad part is, the loose dog has undone a lot of the training you've put into Phenix! He's already reactive and now he has a bad experience with another dog. Even tho the other dog only wanted to play, it still created stress for Phenix. That's what makes me so mad. It takes so much time and training and within a few seconds, you have a big set-back.
> When our rescue Gretchen was young, she hated men. I would walk her daily in open mall areas and ask men to give her a treat, after explaining her issues. She was making great progress until one day a man says...."Oh I LOVE dogs" and reaches down to hug her! She freaked out, but didn't bite......I could have smacked him! All that training and then that happens.....GEEEEEEEZ!


 EXACTLY! 

All this work....to start again.

But well, I guess its life and I have to learn to live with that kind of situations. We are not, obviously, in a perfect world lol.


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## Melly (Mar 21, 2010)

I had that problem with My rottweiler along time ago My rottweiler was on a leash outside of petco trying to go pee lol and some little yorkie no leash came up barking at her and acting like a bully well my rottie snapped at her didnt make contact just snapped and of she had a big bark lol and the yorkie owner was like they should ban those breeds or not let them in public that dog is vicious, I'm like no they should ban stupid owners like you that cant do what they are suppose to and don't train or leash their dogs, if my dog was vicious u would have a few scraps of fur left right now, I said a few other choice words to her that I will be nice enough to not repeat.


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## Nikkia (Jul 27, 2008)

Ugg I'm having the same problem, Nikkia was attacked by an aggressive poodle about a year and a half ago. We were walking through the park when we saw this huge black poodle chasing a kid, biting it's shirt and, tugging it around the kid was screaming bloody murder. I have a 6 year old sister so Nikkia has always been very protective over little kids. She began barking at the dog and it ran over towards us then bolted off into another direction (I was assuming towards it's owner). This gave the kids dad enough time to go and scoop his kid up, he was furious! While I was watching them the poodle came up behind me and Nikkia bit her on the back of the neck and went to town, Nikkia was of course squealing the whole time. When I finally was able to kick it off of her it's owner, who had been sitting on a park bench a few yards away the entire time then came over and started yelling in my face. Then the kids dad came over with his crying kid and we began yelling at the owner to keep control of his dog. The owner then flipped us off put his dog on a leash and walked away, what a lovely person... This shook me and Nikkia up quite a bit I was only 14 at the time. Never in my life until that day had I been so afraid of loosing Nikkia or getting hurt by an angry adult. That is until that dog attacked Nikkia and I had it's owner screaming in my face. Luckily Nikkia didn't receive any major injuries from the incident just a few small puncture wounds which healed quickly. She has been very insecure around other dogs since though and it seems that every time I've almost got her back to normal. We run into another out of control dog and their stupid owner. The dog tries to pounce on Nikkia to either play or be mean and this freaks her out because she doesn't know if it is going to try to tear her apart like that poodle did. I am sorry you are going through the same thing I really wish people would respect other people and their dogs by keeping their out of control dogs on leash!!!


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Nikkia said:


> Ugg I'm having the same problem, Nikkia was attacked by an aggressive poodle about a year and a half ago. We were walking through the park when we saw this huge black poodle chasing a kid, biting it's shirt and, tugging it around the kid was screaming bloody murder. I have a 6 year old sister so Nikkia has always been very protective over little kids. She began barking at the dog and it ran over towards us then bolted off into another direction (I was assuming towards it's owner). This gave the kids dad enough time to go and scoop his kid up, he was furious! While I was watching them the poodle came up behind me and Nikkia bit her on the back of the neck and went to town, Nikkia was of course squealing the whole time. When I finally was able to kick it off of her it's owner, who had been sitting on a park bench a few yards away the entire time then came over and started yelling in my face. Then the kids dad came over with his crying kid and we began yelling at the owner to keep control of his dog. The owner then flipped us off put his dog on a leash and walked away, what a lovely person... This shook me and Nikkia up quite a bit I was only 14 at the time. Never in my life until that day had I been so afraid of loosing Nikkia or getting hurt by an angry adult. That is until that dog attacked Nikkia and I had it's owner screaming in my face. Luckily Nikkia didn't receive any major injuries from the incident just a few small puncture wounds which healed quickly. She has been very insecure around other dogs since though and it seems that every time I've almost got her back to normal. We run into another out of control dog and their stupid owner. The dog tries to pounce on Nikkia to either play or be mean and this freaks her out because she doesn't know if it is going to try to tear her apart like that poodle did. I am sorry you are going through the same thing I really wish people would respect other people and their dogs by keeping their out of control dogs on leash!!!


 Thank you  And thank you for sharing your storie


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## K9_girl1994 (Apr 17, 2009)

Me and my sisters were walking our small maltese/bichon frise mix the other day. He does not get along well with other dogs, and we have been working hard to get him to his point now. A brown lab that was sitting off leash in his yard dashed across the road, almost getting hit by a car and came up to us. I am not familiar with this dog and my reaction was to pick up our dog. Our dog had his teeth showing and was trying to bite. Their dog was pratically jumping on me to try to get Goofy. I would turn around everytime so Goofy could not see him or attack. The lady apoligized and got her dog. She had to grab him by the scruff because he had no collar and walk him to her house. And then Goofy started to bark at these dogs that we have walked by plenty of times with no reaction. It is so annoying. That is why we usually walk down a trail that no one is every on.


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## Kriller (Aug 11, 2010)

Glad to hear that I am not the only one with this problem!! My 20 month old female is a real sweetheart but like Phenix she has some insecurities that we are working on with strange dogs. When a dog gets right in her face or comes running up to her she can't handle it and shows some aggression. It's almost as if she tells them to back off. I can't count how many times I have told other owners how dangerous it is that they can't recall their off leash dogs. And then they have the nerve to look at me like my dog is the one with the problems! Ugh makes me so angry! The off leash, untrained, overly friendly dogs is a real problem where I currently live. Glad I am moving soon to an area where people seem to have control of their dogs.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Same story here with Niko. He had some unpleasant puppy experiences in classes we took, and I did not step in and become his advocate because I was trusting the advice of the trainer to let him work it out. Also, he has been charged by off leash dogs on several occasions, once was bad enough that he slipped his collar and tried to run home in order to avoid the dog that was trying to attack him (this happened when my husband was walking him). Since that time my husband and I always carry pepper spray, and my husband has used it twice so far to ward off attacking dogs (that same one tried it again about a month after the first incident, and then there was another dog that ran up to them growling). The pepper spray worked perfectly, btw.

Now we are working with a private trainer on Niko's issues with reactivity in general and dog reactivity (he is not aggressive but rather fearful). We don't anticipate him ever being friendly with other strange dogs, at best we hope to get him to the point where he will ignore them. But it sure would help us out if people would not let their dogs roam free out here in the country where we live.


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## Del (Apr 25, 2011)

Dogs are not children, but there are times they both act alike. A lot of the time if you look the people that let their dogs run out of control also have kids that act the same way. These people are blind to what is going on, and in complete denial that there is anything wrong with their kids or dogs. It is always something else that is to blame.



trish07 said:


> I don't know if I made an error by doing this...but a lot of owners do bad too when they are peting their dog while they are insecure or fearfull.


What I was taught a long time ago was to not pet your dog while it is insecure or fearful. The dog relates petting and praise as a reward for doing something good. The dog is confused he was just traumatized and is getting a reward for it. That is the making for a dog with issues.

Instead try to calm him down first, without saying anything reach down while he is sitting and massage the back of his neck below his ears. Works the same for the dog as it does for you, it feels good and quickly relaxes your dog. Not saying anything does not give the dog anything to key in on by the tone or manor of your speech. If he picks up any excitement or stress in your voice he is not going to relax. It for now is just massage to calm him down. Once he is calm then have him do something he was trained to do and loves to do. That is the time to praise and pet.

Not sure what the pro’s will say about it, but I have never had a neurotic dog.

Del

BTW, If the occasion should arise I would choose my grandbaby over my dog. It is guaranteed that I will react equally in the protection of both.


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## landspeed (Apr 21, 2011)

HarperGirl said:


> Ugh. I was walking Harper a couple days ago and some nutty small-ish dog came running across the road at her. She remained PERFECTLY at my side, kept going, and was a gem. The owner came running out into the road and picked up her dog saying, "Wow, your dog is so well behaved!" I managed to bite my tongue and only say, "We're really working on it, but she's still pretty young." WANTED to say so much more!


Why would you say anything? She complimented you on your dog and maybe theyre working with theirs? Sometimes, people just try to picka fight.


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## lisgje (Sep 3, 2010)

Leash laws are there for a reason in my own personal opinion. Problem is, so many pp around here (not the forum, but my city) seem to think that does not apply to them. Shane and I were actually attacked years ago by a huge mastiff that was loose and the owners never even came out of the house to get him, even though I was screaming at the top of my lungs for anyone to help us. A stranger driving by helped us. The mastiff finally ran across the street back to his house and I called animal control when I got home and never saw the dog again.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

There is a leash law in my city, yet there are people who feel they are above the law. I hate it when people do that. I don't care how trained your dog is, you never know what will happen. I had a dog charge at Molly and I once and I was so glad I had a leash, if not who knows what would have happened.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm glad to say Phenix has improved a lot! Now, most of the time, he don't care about unleashed or barking dogs. I still don't understand how could you bring your dog in front of the house if it doesn't listen to you at 100%....but well, I'm not in everybody's mind...a few weeks ago, a very great looking pitbull escaped from the house while the owner was opening the door. He ran through the street (hopefully no cars...) and came to Phenix. The pitbull was an intact male....he was quite friendly, but was standing straight. The owner was telling us "He is great, don't woory" and before I could tell her "Well, maybe yours like other dogs, but mine does not" Phenix and him started to figth. Hopefully, I grabbed the pitbull collar and save Phenix's face.....she was like "Uh"....I told her that some dogs have a hard past with other dogs, they do not always love each other for various reasons....


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

I've come to the conclusion that all dogs really should be on a leash unless in dog park or somewhere that is set up for it. I used to think that a properly trained dog could be trusted, but I'm not so sure, now. 

I worked hard to get my dog at the time - a Sheltie named Casey - perfectly (I thought) trained to heel off-leash and come when called. It helped that he loved doing it. I worked him around other people, other dogs, at busy parks, etc. and by the time he was four I thought he was ready because he'd never given me any reason to think otherwise. However, I still walked him on leash because Houston, where I lived at the time, has leash laws. Unfortunately, because I had so much confidence in my dog, I was complacent and just let the handle loose in my fingers. 

One day, I was walking him in my apartment complex and Casey took off running. I predictably lost my hold on the leash and ran after him calling his name, which he completely ignored - something he hadn't done since he was a puppy. I almost died when I saw he has racing full out for a woman pushing a stroller - and that she understandably was having a heart attack seeing Casey running for them full-out. She didn't know that Casey loved kids and I was afraid that she'd hurt him trying to protect her child - and I would certainly would not have blamed her if she had. Fortunately for everyone, she froze and an unimpeded and very happy Casey showered her child with doggy kisses while I grabbed up his leash and apologized _profusely_.

After that, I figured that no matter how well-behaved and well-meaning the dog, there was no reason to risk having one off leash with the general public. There's just no way to test a dog in every conceivable situation and it's better not to risk an accident. I also learned never to be so lax holding the leash, even with a lightweight on the other end, no matter how much I trusted them. <ahem>


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

You sound like a really good dog owner, Stealth, which just goes to show it can happen to anyone. Our local park has signs all over that dogs are expected to be on leash, but lots of folks ignore it. I really don't mind as long as the dogs are with their owners and under voice control. The trouble is that from what I have seen 90% of the people who think their dogs are voice controlled, they are not. 

I react differently I guess depending on which dog I have. With Corina, it isn't a problem, except for the one time a dog came running up aggressively, rather than playfully. Heidi and I spent time in reactive class, where she didn't learn much, but I learned to be confident and that I can control my dog (the trainer said that's the whole point). So with her I just consider strange dogs approaching a training moment like someone else said. However with Loki it is a huge problem, as he is 85 lbs. and dog aggressive and it doesn't matter how friendly the other dog is. My husband gets really pissed about off leash dogs and although he would never kick a dog, he might very well go over and kick the owner. We only walk Loki at times and places where we are extremely unlikely to meet other dogs.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

stealthq said:


> I've come to the conclusion that all dogs really should be on a leash unless in dog park or somewhere that is set up for it. I used to think that a properly trained dog could be trusted, but I'm not so sure, now.
> 
> I worked hard to get my dog at the time - a Sheltie named Casey - perfectly (I thought) trained to heel off-leash and come when called. It helped that he loved doing it. I worked him around other people, other dogs, at busy parks, etc. and by the time he was four I thought he was ready because he'd never given me any reason to think otherwise. However, I still walked him on leash because Houston, where I lived at the time, has leash laws. Unfortunately, because I had so much confidence in my dog, I was complacent and just let the handle loose in my fingers.
> 
> ...


Your story shows us the other side of the medal, that is great. You are right, sometime, things happen for "no reasons" and they are out of our control, even if we are good pet owners.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

I totally agree with everyone who says even if it's an accident, the owner is still responsible if a dog gets loose. But I do tend to look more charitably on it if it is accidental. The dog who attacked Corina had an owner running behind and calling to him. There was no doubt in my mind that the dog had accidentally gotten loose, not just allowed to roam. So I was upset, but not so mad.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I've never had this happen with Sasha, thankfully, but there have been a couple of times when I've been nervous about it. A few people in town keep their dogs in their yard with an e-fence and there have been a couple of times where I wasn't sure the dogs were going to stop (we avoid those streets once I figure out which ones they are). There is also one place we walked by where the dogs were in a kennel but the dog houses in the kennels were big enough, and the dogs were big enough, that when they were standing on top of their houses their front paws were over the top of the dog run. These dogs were going NUTS and I was worried they were going to jump the run. So I moved Sasha to the other side of me (side farthest away from the dogs) and kept moving. Like I said, luckily I have never had to defend Sasha. That being said my first course of action would definitely be to put her behind me and try to get as big and loud as I could. I know that not all dogs are fearful and that some will keep coming, but if those dogs are going to come then they are going to come, and I'm not letting Sasha get bit if I can help it. I would kick a dog to get it away from Sasha if it was ABSOLUTELY necessary. If it was just an annoying, but friendly dog I would probably just try to get it to go away verbally, but probably wouldn't kick such a dog as long as Sasha didn't seem to be upset about the dog being there, which as long as the dog is friendly she likes other dogs so it shouldn't be an issue, but you never know.


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## stealthq (May 1, 2011)

Bridget said:


> You sound like a really good dog owner, Stealth, which just goes to show it can happen to anyone.


That's very kind of you. If I'm being totally honest (and with the power of 20/20 hindsight), I really had no excuse. I had been riding and showing horses since I was little and had just quit a couple of years before - so we're talking approx 13yrs. experience. 

Thou shalt not ever, for any reason, trust the big sweet horsey is commandment number one. We're always to consider the damage a huge powerful animal is capable of inflicting and be respectful of that. Now, every horse person I ever knew, including me, violated that commandment at some point - letting horses loose in the stall while you groom them, not paying attention when in reach of any horse, that sort of thing. What is so bizarre is that almost every year someone - and someone that we'd all know because the Saddlebred community is fairly small - gets maimed or killed for this and for the most part _people don't learn_! Obviously, I include myself in this , but when you think about it, it really is amazing. 

Anyway, the point being that I knew better with the horses. Why I thought that didn't apply to dogs as well is beyond me.


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