# Everyone wants to breed their dog.



## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Is anyone else also a member of Facebook german shepherd sites. I am a member of one for Indiana. Weekly there are posts of people looking to breed their champion bloodline GSD. They will never post pedigree or titles earned by their dog. Or any health info. Even when I ask. Forget about trying to explain that even though their dog is a good dog they should not breed. They will either ignore your post or come back with the fury of a momma whose kid you just called ugly. I probably should just keep my opinions to myself would be much easier that way. Sometimes I will refer them to this site to find a stud or bitch thinking that the majority will share my views instead of the Facebook majority believing every dog should be bred.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I see it happening all the time too. The sad thing is, they will find someone that will support them, allow their dog to be used with no health history or pedigree information. There is one person that has no pedigreeon her young female so is trying to get support from others for using the registrations that aren't legit. She constantly posts on pages for back pats. 
My local GSD page collectively decided to ban her after she continued to post threads about ads for studs, etc. She wants to breed her female when she has only had two heat cycles. 
Very close minded and not into learning to breed responsibly. 
Then the ads on puppyfind, etc which once again support poor breeding practices.


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## brandydan (May 7, 2015)

I'll admit I found my sheltie on puppyfind; he comes from a breeder who does show in AKC and also participates in agility, so the CH in front of my pup's parents is legit. That being said, there are lots of questionable 'breeders' on that site. 

If you really want to ruin your entire week, just head over to any craigslist listing...you can spend hours 'flagging' requests for studs, or people offering their dogs for stud...and then there are the puppies, those poor things.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I just stay away from all that noise! lol

Those that breed GSD's with no regard to the standard, ignore or maybe have no clue of the health issues that plague this breed in most cases I believe could care less what we have to say. Forget about even trying to explain the dogs working ability. What they see value in is the dog looks good and the dog plays well with children. Sad but true.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Maybe you could post this:

German shepherd Breeders, German shepherd Breeder

THE DECISION TO BREED OR NOT TO BREED *

THE FACTS:* It is extremely important to learn the facts and possible consequences in advance if you are contemplating breeding your dog. In today’s overcrowded world, we-the wardens of our domestic pets – must make responsible decisions for them and for ourselves. Please review the following points carefully. 
*QUALITY:* SV registration is Not an indication of quality. Most dogs, even purebred, should not be bred. Many dogs, though wonderful pets, have defects of structure, personality or health that should not be perpetuated. Breeding animals should be proven free of these defects BEFORE starting on a reproductive career. German Shepherd Breeding should only be done with the goal of IMPROVEMENT – an honest attempt to create puppies better than the sound, wonderful parents they come from. ignorance is NO excuse! Once you have created a life, you can’t take it back - even if it’s blind, crippled or a canine psychopath! 
*COST:* German Shepherd Dog breeding is NOT a money making proposition, if done correctly. Health care and shots, diagnosis of problems and advance genetic testing to determine quality and breedability, extra food, proper facilities, stud fees, advertising, etc. are all costly and must be paid BEFORE you sell any pups. An unexpected Caesarean or emergency intensive care for a sick pup, or even a litter of sick pups as often happens with parvo, will make break – even litter become a BIG liability. *
SALES:* First-time German Shepherd breeders have no reputation and no referrals to help them find buyers. Previous promises of “I want a dog just like yours” evaporate. Consider the time and expense of caring for pups that may not sell until 4 month, 8 months, or longer…what WOULD you do? Send them to the pound? Dump them in the country? Sell them cheap to a dog broker who may resell them to research labs or other unsavory buyers? Veteran German Shepherd breeders with a good reputation often don’t even think about breeding unless they have people waiting for the puppies, with cash deposits in advance for an average-sized litter. 
*JOY OF BIRTH:* If you’re doing it for the children’s education, remember the whelpling may be at 3 AM, or at the vet’s on the surgery table. Even if the kids are present, they may get the chance to see the birth of a monster or a mummy, or watch the dog they love scream and bite you as you attempt to deliver a pup that is half out and too large some bitches are not natural mothers, and either ignore or savage their whelps. Bitches can have severe delivery problems, or even die in whelp. German Shepherd Pups can be born dead, or with gross deformities that require euthanasia. Of course there can be joy, but if you can’t deal with the possibility of tragedy, don’t breed. *
TIME:* Veteran German Shepherd breeders of quality dogs state they spend well over two hours a day, every day, for months, to raise an average litter. The bitch CANNOT be left alone while whelping, and only for short periods for the first few day after. Be prepared for days off work and sleepless nights. Even after delivery, mom needs care and feeding, pups need daily checking, weighing, socialization, and later grooming and training, and the whelping box needs lots and lots of cleaning. More hours are spent with paperwork, pedigrees and interviewing buyers. If you have any abnormal conditions such as sick puppies or a bitch who can’t or won’t care for her babies, count on double the time. If you can’t provide the time, you will either have dead pups or poor ones that are bad tempered, antisocial, antisocial, dirty and/or sickly – hardly a buyer’s delight. 
*HUMANE RESPONSIBILITIES:*It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are? There are more than FIVE MILLION unwanted dogs put to death in pounds in this country EACH year, with million more dying homeless and unwanted of starvation, disease, from automobiles, abuse, etc. A quarter or more of the victims of this unspeakably tragic situation are purebred dogs “with papers. “ The German Shepherd breeder who creates a life is responsible for the life. Will you carefully screen potential buyers? OR will you say “yes” and not think about that little German Shepherd puppy you held and loved now having a litter every time she comes in heat, which fills the pounds with MORE statistics – YOUR grandpups? *Would you be prepared to take back a grown puppy if the owners could no longer care for it? *Or can you live with the thought that the baby YOU caused to be brought into this world will be destroyed at the pound? *
CONCLUSIONS: Because of these facts, German Shepherd dog breeding is best left to the PROFESSIONAL BREEDER!*

Moms:smile2:


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

While I read it in its entirety. I would imagine most would get about 3 sentences in and quit reading. People are nuts. Just because their dog knows a couple tricks and half ass listens they think their dog is the best of the breed. So this wouldn't apply to them anyway.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

cdwoodcox said:


> Is anyone else also a member of Facebook german shepherd sites. I am a member of one for Indiana. Weekly there are posts of people looking to breed their champion bloodline GSD. They will never post pedigree or titles earned by their dog. Or any health info. Even when I ask. Forget about trying to explain that even though their dog is a good dog they should not breed. They will either ignore your post or come back with the fury of a momma whose kid you just called ugly. I probably should just keep my opinions to myself would be much easier that way. Sometimes I will refer them to this site to find a stud or bitch thinking that the majority will share my views instead of the Facebook majority believing every dog should be bred.


That's been my experience also.I don't follow any GSD Facebook groups anymore.


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## Milliegsd (Nov 24, 2015)

I need help convincing my mother she should not breed her german short hair pointer.... beautiful dog but my mom's first idea when she got her was "I want another one so I can breed her since her parents were so great etc.." *rolls eyes* she does have papers on the dog and the parents do have awards in various things (Idk specifically) but my mom's dog is poorly trained she spends no time training her and when she does its just her scaring the dog into submission pretty much I've tried talking to her about seeing a trainer to help her, the dog is very high drive. But that results in an argument and I can't even imagine trying to talk her out of not breeding her, my mother is very stubborn... I just feel bad for the dog


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Milliegsd said:


> I need help convincing my mother she should not breed her german short hair pointer.... beautiful dog but my mom's first idea when she got her was "I want another one so I can breed her since her parents were so great etc.." *rolls eyes* she does have papers on the dog and the parents do have awards in various things (Idk specifically) but my mom's dog is poorly trained she spends no time training her and when she does its just her scaring the dog into submission pretty much I've tried talking to her about seeing a trainer to help her, the dog is very high drive. But that results in an argument and I can't even imagine trying to talk her out of not breeding her, my mother is very stubborn... I just feel bad for the dog


Print out the article below and give it to your Mom. Bold out some of the key points.  Maybe things like having the responsibility to take one of her dogs' puppies back after it is an adult may make her THINK a bit!  She will have a* lifetime *of responsibility to each puppy that is born. 

Moms:smile2:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL good luck with trying to bring "reasoned" arguments to the FB crowd (and I'm a member!) By and large "most" folks that post are only looking for "affirmation" " not information.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I joined a GSD group on FB years ago because it was started by a friend. Now he is gone and it is just a page to solicit breedings and flog puppies. I was told a few years ago by the new admin that Shadow and Sabi were not GSD's and to call them that was an insult to the breed and I should go join a rescue site. 
The same page had members asking to use Bud. I patiently kept explaining that I do not have his registration and was told repeatedly that that was no problem, other names could be used.
But that isn't a FB issue, it's a human issue. I have had numerous people approach me about breeding Shadow while out walking and the reason I stay away from the local breeders is because I happen to know that several of them were breeding unregistered dogs and using other dogs names. 
Everyone thinks their pet is the best dog ever, and that is as it should be. Sadly it also means everyone thinks their dog should reproduce.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Anyone can join FB and post whatever they like. It doesn't mean you have to deal with them.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There are so many misconceptions about breeding. 

You feel sorry for the dog? Why? Breeding is natural and the dogs really don't mind. Bitches love their puppies, and the process doesn't hurt the dogs. Ok, the whelping itself is hard on the bitch for a day. But then, it is nature and they really do not have a problem with it. 

There are risks. There are risks to owning a pup or dog, risks in dog sports, risks to working dogs. We are surrounded by risks. 

One should have basic knowledge, and they should prepare themselves. They should educated themselves on the problems in the breed and try to breed away from them. They should make sure that sire and bitch are not closely related -- the more info on pedigrees, who's who and what works well, the better, but as a minimum make sure that any repeats in the lines are farther back, and are excellent dogs. Try to find out what those dogs produced.

In the end though people will breed their dogs. In fact, I don't think it is that much of a negative. I would rather see JQP breed their dogs, than more and more pups being produced by high volume breeders -- because all your argument also apply to them. All of them. But, the lives of the breeding dogs and bitches, is much more mundane, they are given much less care. A good novice breeder will make some mistakes, but if they are open to learning from them, and improving their lines as they go, it is much better than encouraging everyone to leave it to the experts.

As for improving the breed. Well, I think if you have dog and bitch without defects, hoping for pups as good as their sire and dam is what we are looking for. When we improve that which is within the standard, we go to extremes and extremes get us in trouble. 

Only a dog-nut would read through that whole statement. And dog-nuts are what we WANT to be carrying forward with the breed. The rest of the universe already knows all they need to know, (until the pups are 5 days away and they need to know how to make a whelping box, and what supplies they need, and whether they need to get a vet involved). So what you have to do, if you really think this person should not breed their bitch, is to serve it to them with a teaspoon. 

Pick out the first thing that you think may make them reconsider: maybe the risk to their bitch; maybe the difficulty of finding good homes; maybe the difficulty of giving up the puppies; maybe the possibility of a very large litter. 

Remember that I-statements (if true) are a lot more effective than You-statements:

I would find it hard to give the puppies to their new owners. vs. You won't be able to give them away.

I wouldn't want to add to all the dogs that die in shelters each year. vs. You will be causing more dogs to die in shelters.

I don't think I could handle it if I lost my girl this way. Vs. Your bitch might DIE, don't you care about her at all???


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I guess for me it's the level of stupidity of the people wanting to breed their dogs. One guy thought he had the best gsd in America simply because his dog would fetch a ball and never wandered off his families 5 acres. If they were acting like they wanted to learn and try and do it with the pups best intentions not just get her knocked up and if half the pups die cause were dumbasses well still pocket a $1000.00.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

lol. I posted here about a year ago on a similar thread and listed the reasons why I would never breed my female GSD. She was about 7 mos old at the time.

Some rocket scientist misread my post as that I wanted to breed her. He registered and posted giving a description of his male and his location and wanted to know how far away we were. He was looking for pick of the litter male......:surprise: There's how much thought some put into it.....


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## CarolinaRose (Jun 21, 2014)

People tend to want what they want, and what they don't want is people telling them they shouldn't have it. Probably something to do with always being denied things they wanted as kids. Sort of -"nu-UH! I'm a grown'd-up and I can do whatever I want!" mentality. That part of humanity isn't really going to change. 

However! While there are WAY too many people who don't know any better and don't care to, there are PLENTY of people who WANT to do what's best (and thus get caught up in the latest pet welfare/right fad). I currently work as a cashier at a grocery store (uhg!) and at times during conversation a customer's dog will come up and I'll ask why kind they have. What usually ends up happening is that Rescue owners will practically TRIP over themselves to assure me that they got their dog from a rescue, while owners of purebred obtained through a breeder hmm and haw for a sec before saying so, usually averting their eyes a bit. 

As much as that drives me BONKERS (the breeder shaming), I actually also appreciate it. Because it means they're TRYING to do the right thing. According to what they've been told by sources they trust. Unfortunately in this case they're listening to HSUS and PETA, but the point is they WANT to do what's right. 

So what we purebred lovers need to do is patiently inform people what to look for in a responsible breeder, and why they're important. Repeat it to everyone who wants a dog, or mentions wanting one, and just get the public educated. When people know what kind of breeders to AVOID (not AKC reg, no health testing, no training or proving of any kind), then when they (likely inevitably) want to breed their "perfect specimen", they'll hopefully remember the type of breeder you're supposed to avoid, and thus hopefully will try to NOT be that person. 

In theory, by educating the public, you cut down on demand for puppies by unethical breeders, making it harder to get rid of pups. If pups from such breeders gain a tendency for sticking around forever (6 GSD pups for 6mos?!), the odds that someone would WANT to breed their dog would go down. 

Side Note: Hehe! I'm about to submit this and the button says "Post Quick Reply". There's nothing QUICK about this!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Momto2GSDs said:


> *HUMANE RESPONSIBILITIES:*It’s midnight…do you know where your German Shepherd puppies are?


A few years ago, the HSUS hired an excellent market research firm to assess attitudes in the American Deep South about spay/neuter--a part of the nation where the number of unwanted dogs and shelter kill rates are both staggering, and the spay/neuter rates are negligible. They tested a wide array of arguments to see what kind of arguments got traction with people who bred their pets.

The ONLY argument that moved people was the "do you know where your puppies are?" one -- nothing else. They tested in multiple demographics, and the results were very consistent. Attitudes shifted when they got to wondering whether some of their puppies had ended up abandoned and dying with strangers through a heartstick in an animal shelter.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

educating buyers is about the only way to stop poor breeding practices. But that is a never ending schooling....


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## Poland14 (Apr 11, 2016)

cdwoodcox said:


> Is anyone else also a member of Facebook german shepherd sites. I am a member of one for Indiana. Weekly there are posts of people looking to breed their champion bloodline GSD. They will never post pedigree or titles earned by their dog. Or any health info. Even when I ask. Forget about trying to explain that even though their dog is a good dog they should not breed. They will either ignore your post or come back with the fury of a momma whose kid you just called ugly. I probably should just keep my opinions to myself would be much easier that way. Sometimes I will refer them to this site to find a stud or bitch thinking that the majority will share my views instead of the Facebook majority believing every dog should be bred.


Not any beeed specific groups but plenty of dog groups. I got in an argument with one lady about health testing. She was advertising Chesapeake bay retriever puppies and saying that she "spared them from the painful health testings but assured her buyers that the dog was healthy". We argued over why they needed health testing and how her price was crazy fro pups that weren't tested, etc but yes i learned to keep my opinion to myself cause almost all of those BRB dont care about health testing. 

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