# Questions before we "pull the trigger".



## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here and I hope its apropriate to ask so many questions right of the bat.









My wife and I decided to get a GSD pup within a year or so and just starting our research to make sure we make as educated a decision as possible.

I have read many posts on here and my head is now literally spinning now from the information overload.

We want a dog to be part of our family. We are not planning on showing or competing with him/her. 
First and foremost we want to get a healthy pup that will be with us for as long as possible. I know what its like to lose your beloved pet and would definitely want to spare our children from that pain, they are only 7 and 4 years old. It obviously has to be the dog that will be good with the little brats but also protective of our family.

We live in Connecticut and I know there are quite a few breeders in our area but I dont really know what questions to ask. 
What should I look for in a dog and a breeder for my particular "application"? Should I get a male or a female?

Does anyone have any recommendations as far as breeders in my area go? I wouldnt mind driving to the neighboring states either.

I had so many questions before I decided to post them and now they are all gone out of my head. how frustrating is that?

As far as prices go what should I expect? Most breeders will not post them and the ones I saw range from $300 to $3000.

I know there will be more questions to follow but this is all I can think of for now.

Hopefully you will take your time to help in my quest for our next addition to the family.

Thank you in advance.


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## FredD (Jul 5, 2009)

Welcome! My personal view about the GSD that you are asking about. They are good with children, if raised with them. You plan on not showing or competing, that's OK. But they do need a lot of exercise, also a lot of patience as they grow. They start maturing at about 2 years old. That's a long time! They are fantastic family dogs. Time, training and patience are the main factors of the breed. Protection, well you will get a lot answers on that. I believe from all my dogs, natural instinct kicks in about a year on protecting their property. GSD's love to work and please, but they need direction. When trained and matured, to me there none better then the GSD. As far as Breeders, others on this board are more qualified to answer your questions. I own GS's for their loyalty and companionship only.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

welcome to the board, I also am from CT )

I agree with Fred's advice. Right now, I am down to one gsd, and two aussies) This is the first time in oh, 20 years that I have had only 1 gsd in the house. 

There are a variety of breeders in the area, and it doesn't hurt to check them out in person, even now, to get an idea of whats around.

Have you ever owned a gsd before? While they can be great family dogs, some can be to much dog. 

Prices in this area, you can expect to pay an average of 1200 to 15oo from a good breeder. 

As for male or female, that's personal choice, a good breeder will match whatever puppy would suit your lifestyle and expectations.

I like both genders,,my males have always been 'go with the flow' boyz, easy trainers, velcro dogs. The two girls I've had/have, are a tad more independent, smart as whips, very loyal, also high energy, but then again, my males/females were from different lines.

If you'd like to email me, I'd be glad to give you the names of some breeders who's dogs I happen to like in the new england area.

good luck with your search
Diane


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## LadyHawk (Jan 19, 2005)

Little Rhody Chiming in here......... . Would you consider adopting a young adult or an older animal??? 

Just a curiosity ... lots of people forget what it is to have a puppy.....


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Puppies are great because you can get the kids involved with training.
I know my breeder has a day care so pups are around kids.
But pups are like having a child just remember that!!
But if i was to have kids no doubt in my mind there would always be a GSD in my life and theirs


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

See the parents... (at least the Dam and research info about the Sire)

BOTH parents should be OFA/Pen hip certified free of Hip/elbow dysplasia.

See as many of the litter as possible. They should be outgoing, playful curious and active. Their containment area should be clean and not stink like a sewer. 

Look at the pedigree, even if you don't know GSD lineages there shouldn't be an extreme amount of line/inbreeding... seeing the same dog repeatedly in 3-4 generations. Dogs in the pedigree should also be free of hip/elbow dysplasia.

Look for titles in competitions such as CD, CDX, Schutzhund, tracking, Search and Rescue, Agility... something to show the ability to do well in accepting training. 

If you've trained dogs before, especially if you've trained a working line GSD before then working lines are great choices. I just got Ikon a couple months ago and he's a lot of fun. Working line dogs can present a challenge that novices may not be prepared for. Ikon is VERY VERY SMART... and has a high energy level. He REQUIRES training.... If you're not used to that a show line dog may be a better choice for you. 

I know the working line folk are going to jump my stuff for that recommendation... but watching my spouse learn to handle Ikon reinforces my opinion. While it's 2nd nature to correct calmly and insist on obedience even in a pup, she has had bassets and labs and kind of rolls with the punch. She's learned though that Ikon requires more consistency in rules from her.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you all for your responses.

I have been around GSDs when I was a kid but havent owned one myself. I had a boxer for 15 years but she passed few years ago.
I'm pretty confident I would be able to handle them. I hope at least.









I thought about adoption but figured that getting a little pup would be a lot better with the kids. Just as littledmc mentioned.
when you adopt you may be getting "extra baggage" that you dont know about and there would be no way to trace back any predecesors.

My biggest fear is to have my kids fall in love with a dog only to have their hearts broken when it goes too early. I know there are no guarantees in life but getting a dog from the good breeder gives me better odds.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

some articles on finding a good breeder (sorry don't know of any specifically on your area)

http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net/breeding.html


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Lies's page has some really great info there.

The only thing I would add is be super honest about what you really want. Yes, in an ideal world you would get a dog that is gentle with kids, calm in the house BUT fierce and protective of the family. Who wouldn't? But ask yourself, if you can only have one trait, what would it be? A friendly dog who may not be up to the task of protection or a strong dog who may be more difficult to handle and doesn't settle as well in the house. Be realistic and honest with yourself, find a good breeder who knows his/her dogs, and you won't be disappointed.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

I hear ya Jason. and I do realize that I will most likely not get it all. 
If I had to choose one trait? definitely a friendly dog that is gentle with kids. We like to walk and camp a lot so we will be around people often. We want to be sure that the dog will not hurt anyone.

My boxer was a most gentle dog I ever met but she knew when to step up to the plate and try to defend me. 
I know that he/she will know what to do in case of emergency.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:I thought about adoption but figured that getting a little pup would be a lot better with the kids.


Adult dogs have many advantages. One of the major advantages is that a well chosen mature dog is better with children, especially young children, than a developing pup. IMO, among the best sources for adult dogs are knowledgeable, ethical breeders. Even breeders that don't have adults available might be able to refer you to other breeders seeking to place an appropriate adult.

My Sam was a retired breeder when I got her. She's housetrained, obedience trained, well mannered & proven rock solid with people, including strangers, (& especially children), as well as other dogs (regardless of size, breed or gender), cats, parrots & (ugh)possums. She's smart, charming, pleasant, warm, gracious & very, very loving. 

I acquired her grandson as a pup & he's a true doll, perfect in fact, but she's by far the easier dog to live with. This would be even more true if I still had small kids. (He's GREAT with kids, but at 21 months he's still a rambunctious kid himself)

IF your heart is set on a pup, go for it, but don't automatically rule out an adult. I've had both & can guarantee adults bond with you every bit as deeply as pups.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Yes Ruby, we are pretty set on the puppy. I dont doubt that the adult dog will bond with us but we dont want to miss all that goofiness of the little one. I know there will be issues with them just like any "kid" but thats the way we are most likely going to go.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:...we dont want to miss all that goofiness of the little one.


That's about the best reason I've seen for acquiring a pup rather than an adult. Missing out on puppy antics hasn't been much of an issue with me, b/c while I like puppies, I adore adults. (I also prefer human teens to tots & cats to kittens.)


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## Kuklasmom (May 13, 2005)

Here's an excellent article on "Finding a Good Breeder," written by one of the moderators of this message board:

http://www.wildhauskennels.com/breeder.htm

Having had a tiny bit of experience in foster work for one of our local GSD rescue groups, I can fairly safely guarantee that there are purebred GSD puppies available through rescue groups who are in need of a good home.

But if you do decide to purchase from a breeder, you'll get <u>excellent</u> advice in the article linked above.

Some obvious stuff that I'm sure your aware of:

1. Stay away from pet stores and newspaper ads. Reputable breeders often have waiting lists for each litter; they don't sell their dogs through a third party (a broker or a pet store) or through a classified ad.

Once you find a breeder, and you're fairly certain about them, <u>start a thread in the "Choosing a Breeder" serction of this board</u>. There are folks from all over the world who participate in this board; <u>so</u> many are very experienced at evaluating a breeding kennel. You'll be given honest (and very patient!) opinions.

Honestly, when it comes to GSDs, IMHO, you really can't go wrong with the advice you'll find here!









2. Training, training, training, training! GSDs <u>thrive</u> on training. They tend to be really smart dogs, so they really enjoy learning. Physical exercise <u>and mental</u> exercise are really important. 

I'm just an average dog owner; I have a GSD mix. Obedience training classes sure made <u>my</u> life a lot easier! And I can't help but think that they help keep our dogs happy, too! Both the dog and the owner learn what they can rightfully expect from each other (patient teaching, consistent behavior, obedience to commands, etc.). IMHO, that helps build the bond between your dog and his or her new family. 

Welcome to the board! As I mentioned above, you'll find patient, expert advice on GSDs here.

And we love pictures! So whenever you get your dog, please post some pictures for everyone to enjoy!

Once again, welcome!


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Kuklasmom... I can fairly safely guarantee that there are purebred GSD puppies available through rescue groups who are in need of a good home.


I am sure there are but how do I know that they are purebred? How will I know what lines they come from? Were their parents/grandparents healthy?
Again, getting the healthy puppy with some sort of guarantee is probably the most important thing for me.

And thank you for a warm welcome.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Hi Mike, welcome! I got my puppy Halo from Rokanhaus in Connecticut. She's terrific, very friendly and social, smart as a whip, confident and totally fearless. http://www.rokanhaus.com/ I live in California, all the way on the other side of the country, so we had her shipped. 

Here are some pictures from our trip to the beach last weekend, you can see what she looks like and get an idea of her personality: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1204657&page=2#Post1204657

She's a pistol!


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks for the link. I saw their website before. definitely will check them out.

great dogs by the way. No offense to any others but Keefer is just plain beautiful.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: smykeNo offense to any others but Keefer is just plain beautiful.


He is, isn't he?







Halo is not drop dead gorgeous like he is, but she's pretty darned cute. Her happy irrepressible personality is a large part of it, which doesn't really show up in pictures.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

We were just talking about puppies at work and one of the girls got her dalmatian on puppyfind.com. so I go there just for haha's and pricewise the range is amazing. there were few GSDs on there that were around $3000. is it possible that these are real, reputable breeders selling dogs on there? or are they just hoping to "appear real" by setting their prices high?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The $3000 price range isn't uncommon for pups from German show lines, particularly the bigger show line breeding kennels. So yes, those prices are real.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

I realize these are real prices but does that mean that these breeders are worth buying the dog from? 
from what I gathered on here reputable breeders dont advertise their pups on such websites or classifieds.

just curious is all.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: smykeI realize these are real prices but does that mean that these breeders are worth buying the dog from?


Not necessarily. I've seen some totally crazy prices online for dogs with very similar lines to Keefer and/or his half sister Dena, who we lost a year ago to lymphoma. There was one place that would price a litter from $1500-$2000 on the low end up to $7500 for their "pick" puppy. Yikes! I paid $1500 for Dena & Keefer, but they may have been discounted for being longcoats, which many breeders do. I have no idea what their littermates were sold for.

Halo was $1200, which is within the typical range for working line pups. She's also a longcoat. Price alone isn't necessarily going to tell you much, but you should beware of a price that's TOO low. Someone selling pups for $500 is probably a backyard breeder. Personally, my top end for a German showline would be preferably $2000, but I would consider going up to $2500. I don't think I'd spend more than that. Working lines tend to be less, in the $1200 to $1800 range.


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## Metalsmith (Mar 25, 2009)

I saw online last year a breeder offering his German showline pups for $3200 to $5000. Well, the sire was only 1.5 yrs old, so only prelims on his hips, and no titles(yet, he was being sent off from the breeder for titling in Germany.) 

Even if his prelim OFAs were great, it still doesn't seem kosher to breed a dog that young. And what, it's just a foregone conclusion that he will for sure attain those titles? I guess they're thinking "Titles are just incedental little details, so let's have a couple litters by this guy first." Seems like putting the cart before the horse to me. I guess there are cases where primo price doesn't necessarily mean primo pup.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If they were sending the dog off to Germany for titles, he will probably come back w/ a title...whether or not he _earned_ it is another story.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

so many great responses. I appreciate your input.

well, let the search begin. 

I know one should not choose their dog based on looks but if I could I would love to have a black and red saddleback. 
Most puppies look the same (at least to me) unless they are sables, but if the parents are the color that I like is it safe to assume that their offspring will be the same or at least close to it?

Again, forgive the newbie for asking dumb questions.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: smykeI know one should not choose their dog based on looks but if I could I would love to have a black and red saddleback.
> Most puppies look the same (at least to me) unless they are sables, but if the parents are the color that I like is it safe to assume that their offspring will be the same or at least close to it?


Yes, if the parents are black and red, then the puppies will be too. If that's the look you want (and I confess a weakness for the black and reds too, obviously!), then you're looking at German showlines.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

thanks, so thats what I will be on the look out for.









is there a better time of year to get a puppy? 
I'm thinking spring time when it gets warmer so he/she wont have to suffer in New England winter while only few months old. does that make sense? 
then again if I get the pup from around here he/she will be used to it anyway.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I got my pup in late April, and it was perfect timing.
He went to parades, garden centers, farmers markets so was exposed to many different noises, scents and people. I carried him before he was in the safe window as far as his vax went. 

Though anytime for a pup is perfect!

Onyx was a Christmas pup(born Nov 8) and it was bitter cold, so the socializing opportunities were not great. 
Think of ways to get your pup out and about safely for socializing if you do get one in the Winter months. Socialization is so very important.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

great point onyx. more opportunities to socialize in the spring. 
Thats why I came to this forum.








thank you


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## Emmart (Sep 26, 2009)

Hi all! I, too, am new to this forum and am ecstatic to have found it. I've been reading through the threads but a lot more remains, so if I happen to mention or ask something previously noted (many times before, that is), you need not reply. I will eventually stumble upon an answer. 
Anyhow, I am strongly considering the adoption or purchase (ouch, that word just doesn't seem right, hehe) of a GSD. I have always wanted to have one in my life, for multiple reasons, but the two main ones are: loyalty and companionship.
A plus to my situation is that I only work half days which would allow me to be home with my potential new puppy or adult for a large part of the day. Moreover, I exercise a lot and enjoy a good jog every day and would love to have a 4-legged companion by my side.
My concerns are:
1) I have never trained a dog, ever. I don't know whether it would be wisest to hire a trainer or read/ask advice of others so that I may do so myself. 
2) Should I have the great fortune to have one, I need to know how often I need to introduce him/her to "strangers", i.e. my friends, nieces and nephews. (I mention this because I live alone.)
3) I am torn between rescuing an adult and buying a puppy. Any suggestions or reference to a previous post will be greatly appreciated.
A huge thank you, in advance, for your support and words.

Emilie

P.S. I'm sure to have more posts so please bear with me.


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## Emmart (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm so sorry! My post should be elsewhere...disregard. I will make appropriate adjustments.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

We got Anna right before Christmas and it served as great socializing time, cause we took her everywhere...my husband's family Christmas, my family, etc. where she was around kids and all kinds of different people handling her. I really think this helped her love for kids, since we don't have any, but she still adores little kids now. Then there was New Year's parties, etc. Of course, I'm in Ala., so our winters aren't that bad so we still could get out and socialize.

Also, as for looks, we were going for a standard black/tan and Anna's sister was a blk/tan but when we compared personalities to what we wanted to do/our lifestyle, the little bi-color (Anna) won out and we now adore her and all bicolors! You just never know what you'll end up getting. 

Good luck for your search! Trust me, once you get a GSD you'll never want any other kind of dog. They are the best!


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ETMI'm so sorry! My post should be elsewhere...disregard. I will make appropriate adjustments.


no sweat Emilie. I feel honored to have my first thread hi-jacked.







just kidding

aubie
yes winters here are a pain in the butt sometimes and I dont know if it would be good for a pup to be in the warm house and then be brought outside every couple of hours in the snow to pee. again, I may be off base here so please set me straight.

I spoke to a local breeder today and he told me there was a brand spanking new litter born today. Beginner' Luck? LOL

He started by telling me about all the great lines he breeds and that all the dogs are VA1. Guaranteed for 2 years for HD and 1 year "bumper to bumper". Very nice guy.
Then, having learned many good questions to ask on here I tried to feel him out. 
I asked if the parents were on site. YES
If their pictures were on the website. NO He will email them to me. Parents are black/red and black/tan. not my top choice for colors but I am learning here.








If he usually chose pups for people. NO he can make recommendations but he leaves the final decision up to the owner.
He takes reservations/deposits on first come first served basis. I would have been numero uno. 
He invited me to visit him to see the parents and pups.
He charges $1200 across the board.

What do you think?

here is the website: http://www.vonbellablazegermanshepherds.com


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

I started another thread in Choosing a Breeder forum when I realized thats the appropriate spot to mention specific breeders I am dealing with.

Is it OK to try to haggle about the price of pups? other guy has some puppies "left over" (about 8 weeks now) but is asking $1800. little more than I was expecting but very nice pups.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would not "haggle" w/ prices. Keep searching for a reputable breeder and form a relationship with them. Look at what they have been producing in past litters. If someone has pups leftover, I would question their program. Most really good breeders have more people than pups. I think you are looking at showlines and they do run higher than working lines for the most part. That said, it shouldnt be a reason to go w/ working lines. 
Slooowww down and keep reading, researching for just what you'd like. This dog will be living with you hopefully for at least a decade and if you spend a few months researching it will be that much more worth it. Then you may even have to wait longer for the pups to be born, anticipation is awesome! And maybe save more $ for what you really want. 
On page one of this thread Liesje posted a link to choosing a breeder, I would go back and take some time reading it, the authors of the articles are both great breeders and you'd benefit from the advice written.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

One thing that would be top on my list, and how I try to shop as much as possible in other areas as well, are shared values. 

I would look for a breeder who felt the same way I do about dogs, as much as possible. 

Do their dogs live in the home or are they always in a kennel? How do they treat them over the lifespan? What do they DO with the dogs? What kind of knowledge base do they have about the breed? What do they feed? How do they train? How do they handle dogs needing to be returned? How many litters do they breed a year? Do they sell on limited (would be what I would be looking for) registration? Do they support rescue either through word or deed? How do they view dogs in general? What do they do with their puppies? How do they screen owners? 

Those are questions based on some of my values, and others I am sure have more or different questions. I just think that is probably for me the biggest part of the match once I had "type" of GSD selected. That and availabilty of black GSDs.









I wouldn't care about health guarantees so much because there are no guarantees in life. But I would want to know about health and temperament screenings done, health of the dogs generations back, and would try to give the breeder as much information as possible to make a good match for me. 

Good luck!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Jean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!























Great post!!!!


Lee


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Yes it was. thank you jean.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Another option just came up: one of the breeders recommended to me has a 2.5yo male that came back to her as a victim of the divorce. I am exchanging emails with her but here he is:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/521356.html
dog in question came from the same litter as the on the pedigree page.


















Isnt he beautiful?


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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

Never mind, I caught my mistake









He is very handsome.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

what mistake? you did a great job covering it up since I have no clue what you are talking about. LOL


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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: smykewhat mistake? you did a great job covering it up since I have no clue what you are talking about. LOL


I clicked the link and when it came up a female, I was going to let you know you had added the wrong link, but then I saw that you said the female was the male's sister, so same pedigree. lol


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Just remember to keep what you REALLY want in sight. 

When looking for a puppy or dog it's soooo easy to fall in love with every puppy and dog offered to you. 

Sometimes, we make heat of the moment decisions and it ends up costing us a lot of effort, $ and heartbreak. (I'm not saying that's what this male will do to you)

If I originally wanted a puppy, but came across a gorgeous 2 year old male that needed a home, I would take the 2 year old BUT since I wanted a puppy, I'm still left with that want. 
JMHO. Just be careful and think about what it is that would really, truly make you happiest.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

I know Denali. 

I posted the same info in this thread here so you can follow it if you like:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...986#Post1212804


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