# Is this puppy growing too slowly?



## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Hello,

I am new to this wonderful forum and english is not my first language, but I did read the rules and I hope I am not breaking them! 

I've had German Shepherds before, my last one unfortunately passed away two years ago. He was my best friend, he was everything. I really want to have a GSD again, and for this past month I have been looking for reputable breeders in my country, in aprox. three cities. I am willing to travel so I can meet the parents of the litter and know the breeder, the kennel and etc.

So, I am interested in getting a puppy from this breeder (whose kennel is currently the number one in my country) and he sent me two pictures of this puppy. The picture where he is in a crate with grass behind him was taken when he was three months old. The one where he has such cute floppy ears was taken this week when he completed four months.

Even though I want to get a younger puppy (from the "ideal" and most common seen age, two months old, because I have a Golden Retriever and I want them to get used to each other since the beginning, and I don't want to miss this very important phase of socialization), I am still worried about this puppy! Does he seems to be growing too slowly? I have seen another puppies from another breeders and they seemed to grow pretty fast.

I know we should look at the size of the parents, but I wonder if this possible late development means a health problem? I don't know if he is the runt of the litter. 

My Golden Retriever already has a congenital heart defect and I can't bear to have another young dog with a serious health problem from the beginning. It's too emotionally devastating!!

I am looking at this puppy as a possible indicator for the other puppies this breeder may have in the future. I know he has a upcoming litter from different parents, but still... 

And last but certainly not least, I just want to say that I am very happy to be a member of this forum ? ? Such great members with relevant opinions and informations. Thank you so so much ?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

:welcome: I don't think the puppy is a slow developer. He looks right where he should be at just 4 months old. Since you are concerned about the health, perhaps you could have the puppy first examined by a vet and given a clean bill of health before you finalized the purchase.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Mary Beth said:


> :welcome: I don't think the puppy is a slow developer. He looks right where he should be at just 4 months old. Since you are concerned about the health, perhaps you could have the puppy first examined by a vet and given a clean bill of health before you finalized the purchase.


Hello! Thanks for the nice welcome!  
Thank you so so much for the helpful advice! I think it is a great one but I am afraid the breeder may feel offended if I try to do so!? Well I am willing to try anyway!
I sincerely apologize if theres something wrong, english is not my 1st language as I've said before.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

gsdworld7 said:


> Hello! Thanks for the nice welcome!
> Thank you so so much for the helpful advice! I think it is a great one but I am afraid the breeder may feel offended if I try to do so!? Well I am willing to try anyway!
> I sincerely apologize if theres something wrong, english is not my 1st language as I've said before.


The breeder may hesitate at that since it is prior to purchase but if so, then I would suggest asking about a health guarantee that would be part of the purchase contract. This is the clause from the breeder's contract I purchased my Baron from:
"B.) Buyer will personally inspect the dog, and dog must be examined by a licensed veterinarian within 3 working days from the receipt of the purchase date on the dog. Any claims must be made within this time period and will be verified by Seller’s own veterinarian.
C.)Buyer may return puppy (IN GOOD CONDITION) to Seller for a full refund for any reason within 72 hrs of receipt, providing Buyer agrees to pay all transportation costs to Royal K9 Kennel, LLC."

No worries about your English. I would not have known it was not your first language if you had not said so


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If the breeder is well known, he/she probably has a website. Can you post the link? You could check references with people who have dogs from this kennel. Take someon, knowledgeable with the breed with you to take an objective look at the pup. Personally I would not get a 4 month old pup from a breeder if I had even one question. Between 10 weeks of age and 4 months of age lies a big gap in which you don't know what he has learned and experienced.
If you want, can you mention your country? There are people on this forum from all over the world.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Mary Beth said:


> The breeder may hesitate at that since it is prior to purchase but if so, then I would suggest asking about a health guarantee that would be part of the purchase contract. This is the clause from the breeder's contract I purchased my Baron from:
> "B.) Buyer will personally inspect the dog, and dog must be examined by a licensed veterinarian within 3 working days from the receipt of the purchase date on the dog. Any claims must be made within this time period and will be verified by Seller’s own veterinarian.
> C.)Buyer may return puppy (IN GOOD CONDITION) to Seller for a full refund for any reason within 72 hrs of receipt, providing Buyer agrees to pay all transportation costs to Royal K9 Kennel, LLC."
> 
> No worries about your English. I would not have known it was not your first language if you had not said so


Hello!  Thank you for your kind words about my english!

This is another great advice! In fact when I spoke with the breeder about a contract he said "yes, there's one, but the best guarantee you'll have is the fact you're buying a puppy from the best kennel in the country." I don't know if I should take his answer as a red flag!? I also went to visit another kennels before and:
One breeder told me how a buyer wanted to return its puppy for personal reasons and wanted a refund, and she (the breeder) said no. 
The other one had the runt of the litter and I fell in love with it, and so I sent the breeder an email saying that I wanted to take the puppy to a vet. I said to him to put this condition in our contract and I even explained my Golden's disease and my reasons to do so, but in his words "taking the puppy only to return him hours after would be bad [for the puppy]".
Needless to say but days after I got an email from him saying he didn't want to sell me this puppy. I was heartbroken.



wolfy dog said:


> If the breeder is well known, he/she probably has a website. Can you post the link? You could check references with people who have dogs from this kennel. Take someon, knowledgeable with the breed with you to take an objective look at the pup. Personally I would not get a 4 month old pup from a breeder if I had even one question. Between 10 weeks of age and 4 months of age lies a big gap in which you don't know what he has learned and experienced.
> If you want, can you mention your country? There are people on this forum from all over the world.


Hello! Thank you very much for your helpful advice!
I totally agree with you. A 4 month old puppy is not the same as a 2 month old puppy for example. He said he kept two puppies from the litter as they have great potential but he decided to sell this one. So its safe to say this one doesnt have his litter mates with him anymore. He probably isnt well socialized. 
I tried to look for references, buyers and everything, but had no luck... the only reference I have is from my country's kennel club which makes the rankings and his kennel is the number one for the breed and have been for the past two years.
This is their website: vonhauszipf.com.br and its in brazilian portuguese


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I looked at the website. Language was no problem as Google asked right away if I wanted it translated, so then it came up in English. Very impressive breeder, reminds me somewhat of the big name breeders here in the US. I didn't quite accept his explanation of why he was selling this one puppy and keeping the other. I may be wrong but at 4 months, an x-ray, can show if the hips and elbows aren't good. So I agree with Wolfy Dog also about the age. So, I would look elsewhere, maybe a smaller breeder, not so well known, but one who would answer all your questions and have some type of return or health policy if that is the practice in your country. For the breeder with the runt, I don't buy that explanation either. Taking the puppy for a few hours to be examined by a vet would not at all hurt it. If that is the case, the puppy must have a very weak nerve. So, I know it was hard for you, but I think that was for the best, as the puppy could have health or temperament problems.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Mary Beth said:


> I looked at the website. Language was no problem as Google asked right away if I wanted it translated, so then it came up in English. Very impressive breeder, reminds me somewhat of the big name breeders here in the US. I didn't quite accept his explanation of why he was selling this one puppy and keeping the other. I may be wrong but at 4 months, an x-ray, can show if the hips and elbows aren't good. So I agree with Wolfy Dog also about the age. So, I would look elsewhere, maybe a smaller breeder, not so well known, but one who would answer all your questions and have some type of return or health policy if that is the practice in your country. For the breeder with the runt, I don't buy that explanation either. Taking the puppy for a few hours to be examined by a vet would not at all hurt it. If that is the case, the puppy must have a very weak nerve. So, I know it was hard for you, but I think that was for the best, as the puppy could have health or temperament problems.


Hello! I totally agree with you! And both those explanations were really strange. 
Well, I followed your advice and got in contact with a breeder that so far seems reputable. And he also is a veterinarian. He is a GSD breeder since 1977. Everyone speaks highly of him. This is his site www.canilaltodoagave.com
I havent really spoke with him yet, just a few questions. I dont know how his contract works either.
And he just sent me a gorgeous picture of two litter mattes!! I think the left one is a long coat. They are currently two months old!


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Sorry! Here is the picture!!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

:wub: they are both adorable! I believe you've found your breeder and future puppy! Yes, the left one is a long coat. Though the stock coat looks nice too. The breeder's website is very informative and with the breeder being a vet and concerned with improving the breed and the health. That is so impressive. I'm so happy for you


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Mary Beth said:


> :wub: they are both adorable! I believe you've found your breeder and future puppy! Yes, the left one is a long coat. Though the stock coat looks nice too. The breeder's website is very informative and with the breeder being a vet and concerned with improving the breed and the health. That is so impressive. I'm so happy for you


Hello! Thank you so much for your kind words, I really appreciate it! They are cute indeed! 
I spoke with the breeder today and made a few questions. He said both parents are certified and free from hip dysplasia, though I'm not sure about the elbows; he said the puppy comes with a health certificate. When asked about a contract he said "his dogs don't need a contract [to come with them]" but I insisted and he said he's going to send me an email by tomorrow morning with an contract. I am starting to think it's a brazilian thing! (although I did sign a contract when I bought my Golden and my last GSD!)
Anyway, the only downside is the litter has a official letter and all the puppies must have a name starting with it. It's for my country's kennel club/pedigree registration. I don't know if it also happens in the US!? In this case it's a D and my Golden's name already starts with this letter! The name I was hoping for starts with an "O"!
I would like to thank you again for your support


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

gsdworld7 said:


> Anyway, the only downside is the litter has a official letter and all the puppies must have a name starting with it. It's for my country's kennel club/pedigree registration. I don't know if it also happens in the US!? In this case it's a D and my Golden's name already starts with this letter! The name I was hoping for starts with an "O"!



That is just the registered name. You can call your puppy what ever you like at home. My pup's call name is different from his registered name. You could also just put a D in front of the O, if your breeder is okay with that.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Bramble said:


> That is just the registered name. You can call your puppy what ever you like at home. My pup's call name is different from his registered name. You could also just put a D in front of the O, if your breeder is okay with that.


Hello! Unfortunately the breeder isn't okay with that. He said the CBKC (my country's kennel club) doesn't allow that; but he's lying. Other kennels I went to were very kind about this matter and said they could put the official letter, an underline and then the name that I wanted. I know the CBKC's rules and they don't even mind. I know it's such a small matter but if he's lying about that I wonder if he lies about other things too


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

The puppy’s registered name is just that, a registered name. Just follow your breeder’s naming protocol. You can call your puppy anything you want at home, regardless of the official naming convention. It’s not unusual for us to give a dog a nickname. My dog Scarlet also thinks her name is Pony, lol.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Yup what dogfaeries said! My girl's litter was the Oo litter. Her registered name is Blackthorn's Out of the Frying Pan, but I call her Katsu. I've seen people put the registered letter then an apostrophe and the name they want - E'Shaye or D'Shaye. I'm not sure if your language would allow you to do that or not, but it is something to consider.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

What cute puppies! Just follow the naming convention of your breeder for the registered name, and use whatever call-name you want at home. My GSD came from the breeder's O litter. His registered name is Onxy, but I call him Asher.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

dogfaeries said:


> The puppy’s registered name is just that, a registered name. Just follow your breeder’s naming protocol. You can call your puppy anything you want at home, regardless of the official naming convention. It’s not unusual for us to give a dog a nickname. My dog Scarlet also thinks her name is Pony, lol.


Thanks for the advice! Scarlet is really beautiful and so is Pony! 



Katsugsd said:


> Yup what dogfaeries said! My girl's litter was the Oo litter. Her registered name is Blackthorn's Out of the Frying Pan, but I call her Katsu. I've seen people put the registered letter then an apostrophe and the name they want - E'Shaye or D'Shaye. I'm not sure if your language would allow you to do that or not, but it is something to consider.


Thank you for the advice! I can do that, yes. Katsu is such a beautiful name! Pretty unique!



sebrench said:


> What cute puppies! Just follow the naming convention of your breeder for the registered name, and use whatever call-name you want at home. My GSD came from the breeder's O litter. His registered name is Onxy, but I call him Asher.


Thank you for your advice! The puppies are very adorable!! Onxy is beautiful but Asher stands out. So pretty!

I think I will follow this breeder's naming protocol and give him a name that starts with a D just for the registration. But puppy will have another name at home! Thank you so so much guys for the helpful advices  
I really appreciate it!


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