# How do you know what you are getting?



## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I've seen a quote or something like it many times, that goes something like this. 

"You know what you are getting when you adopt an adult dog."

How do you know? Unless a dog has a long term foster family that can be with it for some period of time to know it's behavior I think it's a crap shoot just like picking breeders.

I've had dogs from, breeders, BYB's, Pet Store, Animal Control, Humane Society, People re-homing and as gifts. 

My only experience with a rescue was not good. The dog was HA and was not a good experience. I realize that the rescue was not a good one. The foster people may have had good hearts but they were the equivilent of a puppy mill. They saved dogs who were facing being PTS at shelters and re-homed as fast as possible. So whatever problems the dog had could easily be overooked or passed on to someone else.

There was another large rescue in the Los Angeles area I watched for awhile because we were considering a rescue some time ago. It is supposed to be reputable. What I noticed though was that they rarely ever said anything negative about any dogs. I had a hard time believing that all the dogs going through their rescue were problem free. We gave up and decided to go with a puppy.

I've said before and mean it that I respect and admire those who do rescue. So this is not anti rescue.

I'm just wondering how a person can tell what they are likely getting with so many unknowns.

How does one check out rescues for being responsible and reputable?

A person could go to animal control and pick out the best pet they may ever have but a lot of it is luck.

How does one scrutinize a rescue the same as they would a breeder?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...how-distinguish-reputable-rescues-others.html


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jack's Dad said:


> How do you know? Unless a dog has a long term foster family that can be with it for some period of time to know it's behavior I think it's a crap shoot just like picking breeders.


I agree with this. If the dog has been with a foster family for a while and they can talk to you honestly, what you see is pretty much what you'll get. With a dog that hasn't been in the foster family for very long, or with a dog that's in a shelter, it's a total crapshoot. 

I've been guilty of saying "With an adult dog you know what you're getting" but I think I walk around with the misconception that most rescues are like AGSDR and that most foster homes are like mine. 

Ideally you want to see a dog that's in a family foster home environment without a whole crap-ton of dogs. In my home, for example, you've got the foster and two other dogs. The foster dog lives in my house with me, my husband, and my dogs. You want the foster to be able to talk at length about the dog's personality and temperament and you want them to interview you extensively as well. I've definitely turned down adopters that I thought were not a good match for my foster dogs. I don't have kids or cats and none of my friends do either, so I'll tell adopters up front that I don't know how they'll do around them. Basically you want to evaluate the foster home the same way you'd evaluate a breeder. Unfortunately it seems like a lot of people fall in love with the picture of the dog on a website and don't do their homework, but I guess that's the case with puppies too.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

I read the lenghtly one by sapphire and skimmed the rest.

Based on that, I have never seen a reputable rescue.

That is not to imply they are not there but just that I've not seen one.

Most that I know of move dogs too fast for them to know much about the dogs. There is another one near us that is the opposite. It would be easier to adopt a child from China than a dog from them.


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## meldleistikow (Oct 24, 2011)

My husband adopted a yellow lab 5 years ago who was fostered. They said that he was 5 and a wonderful dog that had no issues. Well, he was perfect in the house, but once you took him out of the house, he turned into a nut job. He pulled horrifically on the leash. Gentle leaders, prong collars, nothing ever worked. In the car he would bark constantly, as well as poop and vomit. A whole 4 hour car ride to our cabin with nonstop barking. When people came over he would lick them and everything else uncontrollably. My husband tried to take him back to the rescue, but all of the sudden he was not five years old, but 7 and they guilted him into keeping him. The main reason he wanted to take him back was because of the car rides. My husband was always going to the cabin.

My husband did keep him, but we always had to drug him heavily in the car and lock him up when people came over (people that didn't like the licking). He was a sweetheart and we just recently had to put him to sleep. We loved him but he was a lot of work. The rescue lied about Tank because they wanted to find him a home.

On the good side. We have a cattle dog/jack russell mix that we rescued last year. He was 7 months old when we got him and is everything that they said he was. We are very happy with that rescue group.

I think that it is important to check references on rescues just like you would for breeders.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

We had three dogs in our rescue from top breeders. One was from working lines, imported as green dog from Germany by a police department in MI. He had EPI, pannus ( completely blind in one eye) and diabetes insipidus when I rescued him from a gassing shelter.

Another one was from a very well known local breeder frequently recommended on this board. She had skin issues and was terribly itchy in spite of treatment and raw diet. Everybody wanted to adopt her because of her glowing pedigree, in spite of the health issues. We notified the breeder but they did not have space to take her back. We had wonderful, healthy no-name dogs, everybody wanted the one with papers. A year after the adoption the owners put her down, she lost all her hair and they could not control the itch. And they blamed the rescue, of course. We refunded the adoption fee and offered to take the dog back many times, but they just preferred to hate rescues. The dog was evaluated by their vet before adoption and the adoption was done with the support of their vet. The breeder was not blamed or hated, the vet was not blamed or hated, the rescue was.

Third case, very famous breeder, dog placed well in the Sieger show as young dog, temperament timid, skin problems, ear problems and hip dysplasia.

Go ahead, blame it all on rescue. 

I would suggest that if someone is looking for the perfect dog, they should go to a breeder.

I someone wants to give a rescue dog a true second chance and help the animal with the problems that may arise on the way, they should rescue.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

There are plenty of posts about dogs from so called reputable breeders with all manner of health and temperament problems.

There are no guarantees no matter where you get a dog.

I do think if you could find a good reputable rescue then chances would be greater to not keep passing problem dogs on down the line.

The woman that I got the HA dog from at the rescue was someone who could not tolerate the idea of any dog being PTS so she passed the problem on. That's just as bad as a breeder selling dogs with geneticaly weak temperament or bad hips.

I don't think rescue people should be defensive though.

Breeders aren't perfect nor are all rescues and certainly not all owners or potential owners.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Well, rescues and rescuers on this board are constantly under attack and used to it. I think that people who have bad experience with rescue should go with a breeder. Easy. And, nothing prevents the owner putting down the aggressive dog or returning it the rescue. Or, if they don't want to watch dying (same as the rescue did not) then they can take the dog to the pound. 

Please, please, if you don't want to rescue an animal, don't. It is easy.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

RebelGSD said:


> Well, rescues and rescuers on this board are constantly under attack and used to it. I think that people who have bad experience with rescue should go with a breeder. Easy. And, nothing prevents the owner putting down the aggressive dog or returning it the rescue. Or, if they don't want to watch dying (same as the rescue did not) then they can take the dog to the pound.
> 
> Please, please, if you don't want to rescue an animal, don't. It is easy.


I wasn't aware that rescues and rescuers were under constant attack on this board. However if your last response was typical I could understand why.

I chose to manage the dog as best as I could. He bit two different people and I was constantly worried about him. If I was dumb enough to wind up with another one like that I would euthanize the dog.
We had two behaviorist and several trainers all to no avail. The dog was damaged before we got him and was passed on to us. So excuse me for not feeling like that particular rescue was a responsible one.

My original question was a legitimate how would one know? Not an anti-rescue attack.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Any rescue you chose now will be "punished" for what the previous one did to you. I suggest that you go to a reputable breeder this time. Just my advice, you are welcome to disregard it


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

RebelGSD said:


> Any rescue you chose now will be "punished" for what the previous one did to you. I suggest that you go to a reputable breeder this time. Just my advice, you are welcome to disregard it


Forget about me personally. I have a five year old and 5 month old GSD's. I'm not searching for a dog.

Rescue people often say if you want to know what your getting adopt a rescue.

I still want to know how a person does that.

Seems like a legitimate question to me. 

Your only answer is to say buy a dog from a breeder.

Did you look at my OP where I have had every imaginable scenario with regard to where I obtained dogs.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I've never felt like rescue or rescuers were attacked on this forum. I'm sorry if you felt that way. My experience with rescue has been very positive so I try to speak up for it when I can, but it's obviously not the only solution, or the best solution for everyone.

With my foster dogs I usually allow the potential adopters to keep the dog for a week or two and figure out if the dog is a good fit for their family. If not they bring the dog back to me and I'll give them the adoption fee back. No problem. I've kept in touch with several of my adopters and they have all been happy with their new family members. I have had to put one foster down due to being human aggressive. I won't pass that on to someone else.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Jack's Dad said:


> Forget about me personally. I have a five year old and 5 month old GSD's. I'm not searching for a dog.
> 
> Rescue people often say if you want to know what your getting adopt a rescue.
> 
> ...


I don't have an answer for you. When I look at a dog and spend time with the animal, I know what I get. Because it is in front of me. My choice, my responsibility.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> Forget about me personally. I have a five year old and 5 month old GSD's. I'm not searching for a dog.
> 
> Rescue people often say if you want to know what your getting adopt a rescue.
> 
> ...


It is a legitimate question.
Another common view is if you want "just a pet" go to a shelter rather than a breeder.
*I understand that there are MANY dogs in shelters that can be "just a pet"*
but being "just a pet" is not an easy task for a dog at times.
JMO but "being just a pet" is probably the most challenging job for any dog as they are exposed to so many different variables throughout their life.
For me going to a breeder who knows the history of my dogs lines and how they do as "just a pet" was why I did it. I just felt that* "how did i know what i was getting"* was safer with my breeder than a rescue.
"Just a pet" is no less important than a show/work dog......and in some cases even more important when it comes to temperament etc.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Ideally you want to see a dog that's in a family foster home environment without a whole crap-ton of dogs. In my home, for example, you've got the foster and two other dogs. The foster dog lives in my house with me, my husband, and my dogs. You want the foster to be able to talk at length about the dog's personality and temperament and you want them to interview you extensively as well. I've definitely turned down adopters that I thought were not a good match for my foster dogs. I don't have kids or cats and none of my friends do either, so I'll tell adopters up front that I don't know how they'll do around them.


So what do you do if there are no good rescues in your area? So far I've been told I'm a approved come pick out a dog or come to our adoption day at petsmart. I understand they want to meet me but I'm driving a long distance. What I'd really like to do is come meet one dog at a time (that they think would be a good match) in a quiet enviornment. My husband has been so turned off by all the responses he is now talking about a puppy and I'm starting to think never mind.... forget it. Let Buddy live out his life as an only dog and then start over.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

*Just a pet* IS the MOST IMPORTANT task a canine can be given....and it is the hardest.
*A Pet* must be exposed to all types of stimuli ie...noises, places, people and objects.
*A Pet* is not "just another dog"....it becomes a *family member*.
*A Pet* is required to maintain good health, IF it becomes ill by any chance...the _family_ suffers both financially and emotionally.
*A Pet *is many times owned by a "novice" to the breed....and is required to "conform" in-spite of it's owner's lack of know how......

*The reputation of this breed, is strongly affected by the ability to be sound companion animals.*
_JMO_


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

All those are very good points. 
And many can be avoided by using a good rescue instead of adopting directly from the shelter. 
After having two shelter dogs and a rescue who was sick and had anxiety problems, I'd be inclined to adopt from a rescue where the dog had lived in a home already, rather than directly from the shelter where it's a crap shoot, or a rescue where we were misinformed (and _not_ informed) about the dog's entire background.

When we get rescues in, we assess them with our own dogs, with other foster dogs, with my kids (who are teens) and with cats. We also spend time getting to know them, how they react to grooming, being around treats/food (resource guarding behavior), etc. 
All our rescues are altered, homes are screened (not always a "home check" but when necessary, definitely vet and other reference checks) and the dog is chipped. The adopter signs a contract they'll bring the dog back at any time they can no longer keep it. It has worked well for the past 4-5yrs. and we've formed many lifetime relationships with adopters.
As Robin said, there's many owners who just don't know things and we assist when we can. We have a trainer we work with in the Seattle area who can assess situations when it's necessary and help smooth things over. 
If things go south (and they do) we get the dog back. Adopters know they can contact us at any time and we'll take them back.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

I also think this was a legitimate question. I was expecting people involved in shelters and rescue to explain how the dogs were tested. 

If the dog is only in a shelter for a few days is it possible to really know the dogs true temperament?

Edit: Didn't see msvette's post before sending this.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I read through the thread....and I must admit.....I know of NO breeder that would "bash" the purpose of rescues or rescuers.....
I have been witness to the "chastisements" of breeders from the "rescue" sector though....
For the betterment of all dogs in rescue....breeders and rescuers should find more ways to recommend and work with each other, instead of being part of the battle of finger pointing, and the blame game....we should be striving for the same things.....*permanent responsible homes*.
_...again...just my personal opinion..._


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

How do you check out the rescues? 

With a breeder you can ask lots of questions and see if they health screen. 
Look at titles or lack of. You can see what past dogs have done.

How do you go about learning what may or may not be a reputable rescue?

Surely there must be some relatively simple process to determine if you want to proceed with a rescue. The rescues often have numerous demands of adoptees and I think they should but the adoptees should have a way to determine the quality of the rescue also.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jack's Dad said:


> Surely there must be some relatively simple process to determine if you want to proceed with a rescue. The rescues often have numerous demands of adoptees and I think they should but the adoptees should have a way to determine the quality of the rescue also.


It's hard because there's really no one framework for what a rescue looks like. They're all unique. Since most rescues are a loose collection of volunteers and foster homes, it's more about evaluating the foster home than the rescue itself. Personally, if a rescue said, "Come to our adoption event and pick out a dog" I wouldn't think that's a good rescue. You want them to ask as many questions about you as you ask about the dog. You want to get the feeling, not that they're filling out a form and checking off boxes, but that they're honestly trying to get a feel for your home and if you are a good fit for their dog or not. Ask if you can take the dog home for a week or two before committing. How long has this foster home had the dog? How well do they seem to know the dog? 

I don't have a formal evaluation process I take fosters through. I just bring them to my house, drive them around in my car, have them meet my friends and neighbors, take them for walks, keep them in my house, crate them when I leave for work, etc etc. Normally I've lived with a dog for at least a month and can tell a potential adopter how the dog reacts to all these types of situations, but nothing is perfect. I had a dog that I *thought* crated perfectly. He'd go in the crate when I told him to and always seemed willing to go in and non-stressed when he came out. A family who lived in an apartment wanted to adopt him so they took him home, only to have to return him because their neighbors complained that he barked all day when no-one was home. I had no way of knowing that; I live on an acre and didn't have a clue that he barked when nobody was home. So no evaluation process is ever fool-proof because no two homes are alike.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

RebelGSD said:


> Well, rescues and rescuers on this board are constantly under attack and used to it.


Your comments baffle me, as I have not seen any attacks on rescue or rescuers here. Sure, there may be complaints about a specific organization, but I haven't seen anyone bashing rescue on the whole. Might you point me to all these posts where rescues are "constantly under attack"?

You seem to be the only one saying this.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Emoore:

I understand what you are saying.

However I still don't really get it when people who are looking for a dog are told why not rescue. "When you rescue you know what you are getting."

That may be true in some cases but it doesn't seem very accurate.

I guess what I'm really wondering is why use a rescue if you can save a dog from the animal shelter or Humane Society. Rescues sometimes get the dogs from animal control or various shelters and save them from being PTS but if they really don't do much with the dog, whatever the problem just gets moved down the line for someone else to deal with.

The middleman (rescue) should be able to offer more than the shelter.

As you can see I haven't done rescue so there is a lot I do not understand.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Jack's Dad said:


> I guess what I'm really wondering is why use a rescue if you can save a dog from the animal shelter or Humane Society. Rescues sometimes get the dogs from animal control or various shelters and save them from being PTS but if they really don't do much with the dog, whatever the problem just gets moved down the line for someone else to deal with.
> 
> The middleman (rescue) should be able to offer more than the shelter.


I agree with you. In theory the rescue should offer dogs that have been living in a home environment with experienced dog people who will be honest about the dog's good and bad qualities and who will strive to match the best home with the best dog. If that's not the case then you might as well go to an animal shelter.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> How do you go about learning what may or may not be a reputable rescue?


I have asked around and asked for references from our vet from other reputable rescues and still have not had much luck. I think it just happens to be where we live.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I have gotten dogs from the shelter, a bb breeder, reputable breeder and taken in strays

When you obtain a dog from a rescue who's foster has lived with and evaluated the dog you stack the odds into knowing what you are getting. 

When you obtain a dog from a breeder who knows their lines and what they produce you stack the odds into knowing what you are getting.

I have not seen rescues being talked against on these forums. Just the opposite; I have seen more breeders being spoken again. Most of the breeders promote good rescues.

I agree with those who said that being a pet, a family member is the most important job a dog can have. Being my companion is not easy! Just ask Benny!

The ideal GSD can do a variety of jobs and settle happily in the family. These type of GSD's can be found in reputable rescues and responsible breeders, both of whom I would support.

If people would shun puppy mills and bb breeders obtain their dogs from good knowledgeable breeders, care for them responsibly there would be no need for rescues


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have been involved with a couple of rescues/ aussies and gsds. BOTH were/are extremely involved in making sure they are placing dogs with the right people and vice versa. They want matches to work! They don't want the dogs back, they want them to go to a home and stay there 

I to have probably said 'get an adult what you see is what you get',,but also mean that hopefully that dog has been fully evaluated by someone knowledgeable and/or a foster home for a time. 

I have also gotten a couple of dogs from rescues sight unseen, just gone on what info I was given..I got what they said I was getting, which tells me, they pegged those dogs/puppies pretty well and were knowledgeable about them specifically.

Shepmom>I'm sorry your having such a hard time finding an adoptee There are so many out there, just maybe not in your area right now? (which is likely a good thing, not for you but for the dogs

Rebel this is the second post of yours today saying this board attacks rescuers and rescues? I don't get it, cause I don't see it, if you can point me to a specific thread that does so, I'd love to read it. 

I do think it can be hard at times to distinguish good knowledgeable rescue from ones that are just turning over dogs because they don't want them euth'd. What i would want is names/numbers of previous adoptees and find out their experiences with that particular rescue. 

One way to tell a good rescue is, will they take that dog back? Do they WANT that dog back if it doesn't work out for whatever reason? That tells me alot.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I don't breed GSDs (or anything for that matter) and I'm not active in rescue (although I donate regularly to 2 area all breed rescues that I really like). I, am however a professional trainer, of all breeds, but probably 50% of our regular training clientele are GSD owners. Personally, while I love that people adopt dogs in need of a home, they are not my favorite training clients. Most of the time the dog rescued as an adult has quite a bit of baggage in the behavior department. GSDs specifically require an owner who is equipped to deal with a smart, busy, mouthy puppy and when they don't get that it creates hard training issues later down the road. And let's face it, those are the majority of the dogs that are in rescue. Most people do not give up a well behaved easy going dog (yes I know that does happen but it is not the norm, at lease around here). Then the new owners adopt this adult GSD, who like most adult adoptees, goes through a honeymoon phase where they are pretty much getting the lay of the land and hanging back. After a few weeks the dog gets more comfortable, the new owners get complacent (the newness has worn off) and don't spend as much time entertaining the dog and then you see the issues start popping up. Some are pretty significant; reactivity, separation issues, prey drive in overdrive, etc. Very few adopters thought this is what they were getting, and most of the time (unless with a foster for an extended period) the rescue gives the best description of the dog they can, but their experience of that dog is also kind of skewed. 
I get so many that tell me they will never rescue again, and it's not their fault, the dog's fault or the rescue's fault, it just is. About the only thing you do know for sure is the adult size of the dog, other than that the rest is anybody's guess for the most part.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

When I ran the foster program at the regional humane society, the first year I was paid staff my office was off the same hallway that led to the four different kennel rooms. So I would hear and see a ton of what went on as potential adopters spoke with volunteers and handled the different dogs on their way to and from the yard.

Although I did understand the desire that led some volunteers to push particular dogs based only on how much risk there was that the dog would be euthanized, it was a horrible way to "do business" and failed so badly in some cases that it turned the adopters off of rescue entirely.

In cases like that shelter, the adopter is at the mercy of the mind set of whoever is trying to help them pick a dog. And it can be hit and miss as to how much the adopters would know what they were getting in terms of the dog they walked out with. 

I often tell people who ask (here in ForumLand, and also in real life) that if they have specific temperament or color requirements and they are not interested in any type of conformation event that requires an intact animal, then adopting from a rescue that places their dogs in foster homes is the best way to go. Do you have other dogs and you MUST end up with a dog that can live peacefully with other dogs...go with a rescue that houses dogs in foster homes and look at those adult dogs that live peacefully with other dogs in the same home. That way, you know what you're getting. Unlike buying a puppy and perhaps ending up with a grown dog that would rather not share living space with other dogs. 

Do you have children and need a companion dog that is okay with everything that living with children means? Go with an adult rescue dog that is living in a foster home with children of the same age. You know what you're getting with that particular dog because it has shown that it can handle that "child life style".

Do you want black and red dog with a nice dark saddle? Find a rescue that has an adult dog that shows that color. You know what you're getting because the adult dog is ALREADY what you want.

That is the bottom line. The adult dog is already what you want. Whatever that may be: good with young children who move in herky-jerky ways and have shrill voices; good with older kids who have friends in and out of the house throughout the day; good with cats; good with other dogs; vocal enough to be a deterrent; quiet enough not to bother condo neighbors. The list is endless, and is as unique as each home looking for a pet. The adult dog, from a good rescue is already what you want. With a puppy, you can go in having that goal in mind (you know, good with kids or good with other dogs, etc.), do everything right and end up with an adult dog that just does not fit those particular requirements. My Tanner came from a "reputable breeder", he was socialized and trained and my good intentions, my best efforts and that goal of "good with other dogs" didn't make a bit of difference. I'll crate and rotate him for the rest of his life.

Shelter dogs and dogs coming from rescues are two entirely different things. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that 98% of the adopting public should NOT go to the average animal shelter for their next pet. There is too much that is stressful and artificial about the shelter environment and there are too many human emotions involved. Most of us don't have the skill to adequately and unemotionally evaluate a dog in a shelter environment and we wouldn't "know what we are getting".
Sheilah


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. 

I wonder what percentage of rescues have long term fosters?

People who spend enough time to know the things you mentioned, Sheilah.

Other than color most people who want pets are hoping for many of the same things they would want from a breeder. 

Dogs free from major health issues, good temperament, safe around children. Free from complex human or dog aggression.

Beyond this some may have individual needs.

No one wants dogs to just keep moving down the line. Finding a good fit seems very important.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

My own personal rule of thumb is waiting at least 4 weeks before letting a foster dog leave my care for their new home. And during those 4 weeks, I expose them to a whole lot. My goal is to have that dog leave and never, ever come back.

I don't believe that you can get a very good idea of true temperament and personality in less time, and even then there is a lot of room for error. It has very much been my experience that most of the dogs that I have fostered have been allowed to live without any manners at all. Taking the time to put basic obedience skills on them is another important step that helps put the dog in the best position possible to find and stay in their new home.

We should be just as demanding of rescues as we are of breeders. 
Sheilah


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Shepmom>I'm sorry your having such a hard time finding an adoptee There are so many out there, just maybe not in your area right now? (which is likely a good thing, not for you but for the dogs


It may be a good thing for us as well. After all that I've read on here recently I'm thinking maybe hubby is right and we should go with a pup. We've raised 4 Shepherds and 2 others dogs from puppies and even our least social one still didn't have the kinds of problems I've read about here recently. Honestly I'm still hurting from the loss of Shadow and the thought of a cute little shepherd puppy just breaks my heart (I miss him so much) but maybe if we go for a different breed.... The dogs we've rescued especially our Akita were the most wonderful loving members of the family but I'm thinking maybe we just got lucky.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Jack's Dad said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> I wonder what percentage of rescues have long term fosters?
> 
> ...


That link with the list of what to look for in a reputable rescue that you read - that is one of the things a rescue is supposed to do, as it seems to be a best practice. 

The rescue I am fostering for right now has a minimum 3 week hold. That minimum is generally not even an issue because by the time the dog gets on the website, an adopter sees them, and the process goes forward, it's going to be longer than 3 weeks. Generally you see a new dog at 3 weeks and again at 3 months. I do everything I can to make sure that the dog emerging at those points is better than the one they came in as, by using NILIF and lots of patience. 

As far as health, we can't guarantee lifelong health. We can say the dog is currently healthy (or not - I had an EPI foster adopt out) and that we know what their health status was during their time in foster and sometimes before (example Muppet Rosa was almost a failure to thrive puppy which was important for her people to know). But we can help people set up an environment for good possibilities of long-term health: good food, safe containment at all times, exercise, etc. 

My last 2 adult fosters were with me for 10 months, then 12 months. So I knew them well. In my environment, with me. In a new environment, with different people, they are going to pop some different behaviors. Because both my adult fosters were quirky (not aggressive), I had to find adopters who were open to quirk. So that is where that match comes in. 

I typically don't get/take dogs that are able to be good family pets. Like Robin says, that is the job with the most stress. A non family dog can be in a kennel, by themselves all day, take them out to do work on something in dog sport, put the dog back in and that dog is done. A family dog is under constant pressure. I do not adopt to families with children because my fosters are not exposed to them 24/7 so I have no idea if they could tolerate that kind of work. There are other foster homes with kids who can vouch for the dogs' kid tolerances. My current foster, non GSD, is great with kids, but far too busy to be able to sit idly by with them moving around.  She's adorable. 

I am pretty sure there are other GSD rescues: VAGSR and GSRNE come to mind as having that info on their websites for reference, that have minimum hold requirements. Match is huge. Anyone who places dogs needs to be able to see not only the dog clearly, but the people clearly as well. And not all fosters are good at both. The rescue I am with, has weekly meet/greets so that foster dogs are seen by a lot of people in the rescue and it's a good time to ask for feedback on behaviors we see. 

It's not a simple thing at all! Definitely room for human error whenever anyone tries to match 2 living beings together.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> I read the lenghtly one by sapphire and skimmed the rest.
> 
> Based on that, I have never seen a reputable rescue.
> 
> ...


I had the same experience. It was easier (and not much more expensive) to go to a breeder and 'rescue' one of her pups.
Then there is another rescue nearby that charges $425 and you STILL don't really know what you are getting because they are
mostly from the streets of Puerto Rico or some other foreign land.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

It is really difficult for the breed rescues to hit that perfect zone of not being careful enough, to the opposite end of the spectrum and get accused of being too difficult to work with. 

When we created our forms, we scrutinized the forms for the well established, well respected rescues, and tried to put together something comprehensive, yet not overwhelming. 

Some groups required very little information, others had eight page applications that wanted your employment history. Yikes!

We temperament test our dogs from nose to tail and also make every effort to get a nose-to-nose test with another dog. We don't have many fosters that do not have other dogs in the home so dogs that are dog aggressive usually cannot be taken into our rescue program. Our group uses established/documented procedures when we evaluate a dog. Some of our folks in the Tidewater area even videotape the tests and make them available to the fosters for viewing. 

You can always ask a rescue to provide references - we can provide references from adopters as well as a number of local veterinarians. 

You can also look through the "Happy Tales" section of our web site and see some of the stories that have been submitted by our adopters. Now that we have been in business for ten years, quite a few of our placements are made with folks who have adopted from us previously. That is the highest compliment we can receive - when someone comes back to us to adopt another dog. 

We are honest about the dogs, because if the adoption is not successful, the dog MUST be returned to our rescue. We would rather have folks prepared for behavioral situations rather than be surprised by them. If something is a deal-breaker with a prospective applicant, I would rather be upfront about the issue and not waste anyone's time. 

We are not claiming to be anything near perfection, but we sure do give it one heck of an effort!!!!


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Good information.

I now have another question though.

If a rescue takes in a dog that turns out to be HA or DA, what do they do with it? I have a hard time believing most would PTS but it should be unethical to adopt it out. Certainly not without full disclosure.

Would they have any liability for passing a known DA or HA dog on to an adoptee.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I can only speak to our own rescue.
It depends on the level of DA/HA. 
If you get a nippy small breed that's different than an 80lb. dog who bites people for the littlest of infractions.

In my rescue, actual "Human aggression" is quite rare. Defensive small dogs are different. I have been bitten once, deliberately and very hard, by a BC mix and she was put to sleep. I knew why she bit, but to find a home who would guarantee she'd never be exposed to that situation (taking her by the back of the collar) was next to impossible. 

Dog aggression - if it's over-the-top, where they cannot be safe around other dogs, we seek advice from our vet and make a collective decision as a rule, usually PTS, because it is a liability plus reduces that dog's chances of finding a decent home, ever. We PTS a Lab mix who tried, quite literally, to kill our cat. I'd never seen that level of cat aggression before, but it also transferred to small dogs and while at the vet awaiting our visit, he became very aggressive to a small dog in the waiting room (everyone was leashed, thank God) then even a poster on the wall. Upon seeing that, our vet even concurred, too dangerous to adopt this dog out.

We recently had a Dachshund that attacked another dog - however, it was just that particular dog, and we adopted him out. He was fine with other dogs, just not that one dog -the dog he bit had some neurological deficits and it was decided the Dachshund sensed that - from then on he was not allowed contact with that particular dog. It was not a big deal, no cause to put him down and he got a wonderful home.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Thanks, msevette2u.

Along the same lines is there a point where rescues decide medical care is just too costly?

I saw on the other thread that a surgery was done that cost $1500.00 and I know there are much more costly treatments than that.

If rescues want to continue to operate don't they have to take medical costs into consideration? Also the dogs age and potential for adoptability?

Or once a dog is rescued are they there regardless? In other words for better or worse.

I admit that I would not want to decide which dogs lived or died but isn't there a realistic, practical side to it. It's impossible to save them all.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It depends on the dog and how much "adoptability", and the illness involved. 
We recently had to euth. a very nice, pretty little Chihuahua as her spleen was so huge it took up her whole abdomen. The problem was, all bloodwork pointed to autoimmune. She was around 8yrs. old and the particular autoimmune disease she was felt to have is a very bad one with lots of relapses. Her "adoptability" plummeted because of the fact nobody is going to want to take on this costly health issue. Very sad case 
We had her PTS because even if we could cure the exacerbation (her spleen - take it out, treat with prednisone) we can't ask someone to take that on plus the treatment is worse than the illness. 

However we did save a puppy who needed a pin placed in his leg (Caliber, on our page) and fundraised minimally to do that. We're using a vastly cheaper (but very good) vet, a "country type" I hear so much about, he did the pin and if it becomes necessary to amputate, won't charge more for that. 

Anyway - there's so many factors that go into it, in our case anyway (some rescues would have fund-raised for the Chihuahua too) that it's hard to say, each case is just different. 

I feel like, if we cannot improve a dog's life and in fact it will make it worse, to treat the dog (prednisone is HE-LL on dogs!!!) I won't do it. I don't care if it's a cute, fuzzy "fund raising" opportunity, I won't make the dog's life _worse_ treating it.


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