# does your vet or vet techs every do something to annoying you?



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

or get under your skin? make you think like "what the **** do you think you are doing?" 

Just curious?


SORRY title was suppose to meant "ever"


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

YES 

One tech is too rough with the restraint and many dogs don't like to basically be in a choke hold so it turns an otherwise good dog into a flailing foaming raptor. I want to scream at her every time. 

Automatically scuffing cats is another pet peeve.

Another tech is afraid of big dogs and sometimes squeals if they come close to her face in an exam room....I'm talking the worlds most obvious friendliest golden retriever coming to lick your face, she will squeal.....it's mortifying.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

only when they talk down to me like I'm stupid. But then I will change vets when they do that a couple times. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also when they manhandle my pets without cause to do so. unless they have to hold them still for shots and physical checks, they don't need to be walking in the room and manhandling right off the bat. Vet that did that to Zena is lucky she controlled herself. Could see she wanted to bite him though.

I don't like techs or vets assuming they know my dogs personality better I do either. That's a good way to get me snapping at them.


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## GSD5150 (Apr 16, 2013)

One tech in particular for the 3rd time already insists on lifting Dillinger's tail nice and high to take his temperature. He screams bloody murder and thrashes all over the place and strikes the tech with his muzzle on. She has told me that it doesn't hurt and that he's just being ornery. It gets my blood going especially since I ask her to be careful and to not raise his tail all the way up because it will cause him pain. I have asked to not see that tech ever again. 

Dillinger has a spine condition, he also isn't the friendliest dog at the vet either. They tend to give up and let me do the restraining since he's a muzzle dog. My vet on the other hand is great!

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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

No, I changed our vet practice. We have several veterinarians in our area so I can afford to shop around and find one I like. Even in the one I'm at, there's about 8 different general practice vets, I could switch within the practice if one bothered me.

The vet techs are generally very nice. One encouraged me to attend a self defense class, and another I see at our local park once in a while with his dog.

I'm getting to the age where I won't tolerate certain things anymore, one is an annoying medical office, either animal or human.


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## VanBuren shepherds (Dec 3, 2012)

My X- vet always tried to act like she knew more about the German shepherd breed then I did and never stopped giving me grief about not feeding Science Diet.
If there was a vaccine that exist obviously to her my dogs had to have them.
I stopped using her when she hired a new vet tech and my female was having a tape worm problem and the tech sat there an argued with me that she didn't have tape worms because they did not show up in the flotation sample. Even though there they were in her stool squirming around in it.
They also felt the need to instruct me on to properly train my dogs and if I used someone to groom my Shih-Tzus besides their on staff groomer they would ridicule the groomer and point out all of their mistakes.
While I was in there for my last visit another patient of theirs came in with a Dobe. The vet had cropped the ears, but the ears were so uneven and not healing properly the person was PISSED OFF! 
But like their commercial says " and they smell good too!" They did smell nice! Honestly they did!




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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if it happened more than once maybe twice i'm switching Vet's.



pets4life said:


> or get under your skin? make you think like "what the **** do you think you are doing?"
> 
> Just curious?
> 
> ...


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

One place I went to one of the vet techs practically let Smokey dig his lunch out of his stomach with his tounge. I don't let my dogs lick or 'kiss' anyone not even myself. I don't like it when the vet techs let the pup lick them especially on the mouth.


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## OUbrat79 (Jan 21, 2013)

When MAK was still alive I had a vet tech insist in clipping his nails. I ask her to please don't because he hates it and would get nippy with her. She would not listen and then hurt him by quicking one of them. Needless to say because of her being over bearing MAK had to wear a muzzle the rest of the exam. Had she left him alone he would have been fine. 


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

It really annoys me at the end of each visit when one of them hands me a large bill.


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## Myah's Mom (Mar 25, 2013)

Talk excitedly and loud in a small room.
Give treats without any obedience first, just because they've seen her and she's cute.
Not read the animal's history in the chart before discussing their health.

Yeah, and the bill. That's a given, lol!


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Nope, love my vets. They're very smart, kind, caring.......and quite hot I must admit. :wub: :thumbup:


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

last time i was there the huge vet tech grabbed my dogs leash and just started to walk off with her my dog clearly did not like that i was like wtf??? 

honestly should they do that? next time ill clutch the leash like a vice, my dog likes one of the techs thats it the otehr one she didnt know and she refused to go with her so i had to get up and pretend i was walking right beside her like i was holding the leash

it was just stupid though, do they always pull stuff like that? 

Then when it was over they put her collar back on?? why not just let me do it? I should have just said here i can do it. But i was expecting them to give it to me. 

Not sure if i am over reacting I just didnt like it this time. NOrmally its a great exxperience but my dog really didnt like the visit this time either. She kept wanting to leave. NOrmally she loves it there.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Nigel said:


> It really annoys me at the end of each visit when one of them hands me a large bill.


 
yup, that's on the list too!!! darn large bill!!!! 

I think my biggest peeve in terms of vet bills is the $60 office visit. I'm like seriously?! Unless I go to the low cost vet down the way, I literally don't leave the vets office without spending a minimum of $140. But they're a good vet and they're not pushy or rude so I'll suffer the bill lol.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> only when they talk down to me like I'm stupid. But then I will change vets when they do that a couple times. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also when they manhandle my pets without cause to do so. unless they have to hold them still for shots and physical checks, they don't need to be walking in the room and manhandling right off the bat. Vet that did that to Zena is lucky she controlled herself. Could see she wanted to bite him though.
> 
> I don't like techs or vets assuming they know my dogs personality better I do either. That's a good way to get me snapping at them.



yeah if they ever pull that crap on me i will tell them to let go right there


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

pets4life said:


> yeah if they ever pull that crap on me i will tell them to let go right there


 
yeah I don't tolerate it. After Riley developing such an issue with vets after they took him out of the room from me when before he was an angel and never had any issues and the one manhandling Zena, I'm not a nice person. I've even refused to pay a bill they've tried to hand me after they were way rougher than was even remotely necessary. They're like my kids. Mom doesn't play nice with anyone being harsh with my babies without real cause.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I like my vet and the staff there-its a pet peeve when people mis pronounce Anja's name -so one time the vet did and I said its Anja -I did it in front of the staff and everyone just burst out laughing-including the vet-so he's a good sport


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## Shaolin (Jun 16, 2012)

I had a vet and vet techs automatically assume Finn was vicious. There's nothing like seeing four techs and a vet pin your dog down and muzzle him...for a simple ear exam that he would happily accept if done calmly and with a few treats.

I'm okay with treats without basic OB, to be honest. I want the vet to be as fun and exciting as possible, so I don't mind it. I can literally hear Finn thinking, "Ohmigosh! Treats without me doing something?! Ohmigosh! Heaven!!! I love this lady!" 

I really like my vets and vet techs, to be honest. The only one I don't like is one we hardly see, so I'm not too worried about it. She seems to only work before lunch, so we just avoid her.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

KZ how did they respond to you not paying the bill?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

pets4life said:


> KZ how did they respond to you not paying the bill?


 
they were less than thrilled about it. Learned a few weeks later, I wasn't the only one who had refused. My mom actually ran into their receptionist at a friends BBQ and they started talking. The minute she said where she worked my mom started laughing and was like "my daughter hates that place! doesn't go anymore" and the receptionist said they'd been losing a lot of clients because of how the vets and techs behaved. They didn't try to force me to pay the bill. 

When I was back home while Geramy was deployed, that vet practice is no longer around and the receptionist who was there is now at the vet I use when I'm back in Colorado lol. She remembered me and seemed happier there.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

Nope, I love my vets. They support a raw diet, minimal vaccines, don't judge me and give me a break with costs as much as possible. And they trust me to bring my dogs home after surgery so they don't have to stay the night. 
Biggest annoyance is the bill - they are not a cheap vet but I pay for the quality


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

In blue, same thing with Ilda. Never had a problem until I took her to the vet who did the lap spay/pexie. Not sure if it was them taking her away to do even basic procedures like a presurgery blood draw or if she decided that vets do 'bad things' to her that hurt (even if they are being gentle).

On the topic in general: I've really never had any serious problems with a vet or vet tech until recently.

It just seems to me they are getting more pushy about the vaccinations, I wasn't sure about Lepto and the vet gave it anyway. Last time they were going on and on about how German Shepherds get the most frightened at the vet and then they were commenting on Autumn's temperament and bad Aussie breeders (hey she's a 'soft' dog but she doesn't shrink down, urinate or shake, she's actually pretty happy and outgoing and did just fine ). 

I think that some vets & vet techs maybe getting frustrated with internet experts in some cases and others are feeling the pinch money-wise as giving vaccinations is a profit center for them, with the minimal vaccination schedule becoming more popular I'm sure that cuts into their income.

There is vet I refuse to go to because they really try to upsell, the lady at the front desk told me that I cannot give Ivomec for heartworm because the dosing must be really precise and I may kill my dogs with it. I pointed out to her the weight ranges on the heartguard chewables, yeah, that's real precise. 



KZoppa said:


> yeah I don't tolerate it. After Riley developing such an issue with vets after they took him out of the room from me when before he was an angel and never had any issues and the one manhandling Zena, I'm not a nice person. I've even refused to pay a bill they've tried to hand me after they were way rougher than was even remotely necessary. They're like my kids. Mom doesn't play nice with anyone being harsh with my babies without real cause.


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

Traveler and I love our vet. He is open to anything and spends all the time in the world just talking and observing before doing anything. 

I only had one problem and that was our last visit. Traveler got a 3 year rabies shot when I only wanted the one year. It wasn't until a week or so later that I realized it and when I called to give them some grief about it, the office gal said they only charged me for a one year and since I've brought it to their attention, I owe the extra $48.00!!!

Ha! Cold day they'll ever get that money!


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

I had a different vet than usual (went to a different clinic for one thing, since it was where I took my dog for daycare). The vet told me my dog was emaciated (my regular vet said she was perfect for a GSD her age), you could just make out her last rib or two, which is how I was told I should keep her while she was growing. I should also point out she was telling me this as she was confirming my suspicion about my dog having giardia...

She then proceeded to walk briskly over to my dog and grab her to palpate her belly without any warning. I thought that was a bit foolish, since I don't think you should do that with any dog, let alone a GSD, as they don't often like to be manhandled by complete strangers.

It was so nice to go back to my regular vet, where she sits on the floor with my dog and lets her lick her and gives her treats after she does stuff to her, so she feels more relaxed about everything.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Current vet - absolutely not, he's fantastic! Delgado was in for his wellness exam a few weeks ago. I walked in first without Delgado to check in, there were two labs that the owners were allowing to run in the small reception area on flexileashes so I quietly asked if I could go straight into the exam room. They agreed and allowed me to take the room literally 2' from the main door, we slipped in with no problem. The vet was a little late by 10 minutes, I got an immediate apology which was nice and I assured him it was ok as I knew he was with another patient.

He got down on the floor immediately, never even flinched or asked about muzzling and just loved over Delgado who adored him, letting him sniff and kiss him and just generally being very positive. Delgado let him do everything without any hesitation, no treats offered, just for a scratch behind the ear from the vet and a "good boy." As this was his first year wellness we talked about the boosters, and before I even spoke he continued talking about tithers for the rest of his life after this one booster set and only revaxing if necessary. I was thrilled and agreed that was my plan, we spoke about heartworm and ticks and I told him my plan was to go completely natural and only do SNAP tests yearly as we are in a low risk area without any medication. He completely agreed and was happy with that. 

He brought the needles in for the booster and I simply held Delgado's collar and fed him treats while he got them, no reaction. He brought a tech in to get the blood for the heartworm test and restrained Delgado himself very gently while she drew the blood, Delgado was too busy kissing the vet's ear to notice and didn't protest the hold. We spoke about health and diet and he raved about how good he was physically and how nice his temprament was. There was a dog that the owner was leaving loose in the reception area so the receptionists came in quietly and warned us, so the vet lead us out the back so we didn't have to deal with it. I put Delgado in the car and went back in and paid the bill.

Now, I have had many issues with reception screwing up appointment dates and times multiple times but we've dealt with each one. Some of the tech's are iffy but I haven't seen anything seriously wrong and they do everything in front of you which I like. No hiding in back rooms for them!  My animals, even Jazzy's who can be a nervous wreck likes my vet, that's enough for me :thumbup:


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Now on the opposite side, I've see two major issues.

First one happened to my sister, she took her dog in for a yearly check-up and for a vaccination. Everything went well and she was at the desk paying when the vet comes back out and explains that she needs another vaccination, Elise looks at her strangely and asked why. "Well, I gave your dog the feline vaccination rather than the canine" "Seriously, how did that happen" was my sisters response, the vet explained that apparently she didn't read the label and blamed the person who stocked the fridge for putting the wrong vaccinations on the wrong shelf. After the proper vaccination was given my sister asked if there could be side effects from the feline or the double vaccination. The vet actually had to audacity to laugh and say (and I quote!) "Well, if she starts to meow bring her back in"
Needless to say, my entire family was not happy about the situation. 

However, years later when I took my first dog Alex in to be put to sleep it ended up being that vet on call. I was immediately leery but she was fantastic, she was extremely compassionate and very gentle and the entire process was smooth and peaceful. She let us leave without paying just telling us to come in another day and gave us as much time as needed, there was no tapping of the toes or looking at the clock implying we should hurry up with our goodbyes as we were wasting her time. So maybe she did turn out ok in the end


The other instance happened with me. Alex came down suddenly with a head tilt, since he was a cocker spaniel with a history of ear problems I was immediately concerned. I didn't have a vet in the area as I was still using my old vet at the time so I called up a local vet that my roommate was using for her dog. They agreed to give me an appointment that day and I explained I would be using my lunch time so I was strapped for time. They assured me they'd get me in right away and help me out so I was relieved. I explained to my boss I needed some extra time on my lunch and he assured me it would be ok if I was late.

I rushed home and picked up Alex and brought him to the vet. I got there right on time for my appointment and I was shown to an exam room. I waited there for over 30 minutes before the vet showed up, finally she walks in, no explanation or apology so I put him up on the exam table and begin to explain his symptoms and history. She stands there with one hand wrapped around her stomach and her chin leaning on the other and listens to me, I finish and wait. She stands there and stares at Alex not saying anything; I wait 30-40 seconds and quietly ask if she would like to examine the dog. She looks at me without moving and stands there for a few more minutes than starts to talk about treatment options. 

She explains she concurs with the previous vet that treatment options are extremely limited. She tells me she wants to try this treatment program which is a combination of oral antibiotics along with ear drops. $600 for 6 weeks’ worth of treatment! Then proceeds to inform me, "but I really don't think it will work." So essentially she's telling me she wants me to waste the money I asked her if there were any other options and she shrugs, then she calls in a tech and asks her to get an ear swab and to clean out his ears. The tech picks Alex up and takes him into the back, a few seconds later I hear him *scream* and I jump, looking at the vet who doesn't even flinch. Alex was NOT a pansy when it came to pain so I was ticked off, he comes back shaking and I was totally ticked off as the tech didn't say anything as she just handed over the leash. 

The vet leaves to examine the findings and I wait, she comes back in and confirms he has an infection. I explain that I'm really uncomfortable with paying so much money for a treatment that in her own words is useless so we agree to do a trial run for 2 weeks and see if there's any improvement. She also assured me that any pills left over I could return and they would buy them back.

I leave and go to pay the bill and it was over $900 and I was floored! I asked for a printout and they charged me for the visit (OK), for the ear swab (OK), $40 for the ear cleaning! and then the full amount for the medication (over $600). After taking *several* deep breaths I explain that I was only getting two weeks’ worth of the medication. The receptionist calls the vet to the front to confirm and she does over her shoulder as she goes walking back into the back room. I pay the reduced bill which still came to almost $500 and left. 

Sadly, the medication didn't work and I had to let him go three weeks later. I picked up Jazzy from her breeders and took her in for a wellness exam as I had a 72 hour time frame for a return and refund if there was anything found (BYB so no flaming please). I also brought back the leftover medication that was unopened and that should have more than paid for the wellness visit. She finished with the visit and I went to pay and they charged me money, I told the receptionists that the medication refund should have more than covered the cost of the visit and she informs me there is a $25 restocking fee! I watching the tech count the pills and toss them into a drawer! There was no mention of a fee at any time by the vet herself or the tech so I was ticked off that they failed to mention that. I just paid the difference and left.


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## manchu (Feb 27, 2012)

I changed vets because of my old vets policy of removing our GSD's from the exam room for any kind of shot, blood draw etc. The first time it happened with Sofi I was too surprised to say anything. When I brought the new pup in for her Rabies and microchip I objected when they started to remove her from the room knowing she would do better if I was present. I was told that was their "policy". My policy was to change vets.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

very happy with my vet and all the techs, been there for 8 years, we always talk before anything is done, she always listens to what i have to say, although none of my 3 really like going to the vets, they have never given any of them any problems or showed any signs of aggression to them


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I loved my vet that I've used for years, but recently found out that he is taking some extended time off. He certainly has worked hard and I don't blame him, but I hate the fact that I am going to have to use another vet at the clinic now. I have used one of the other vets before and she has a bad habit of grabbing every dogs face and making kissing noises. I have warned her about some of my fosters in the past and she almost got nailed one time.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

The last post was too long and I couldn't add anymore lol

The biggest thing I've learned with vets is stand up if needed, yes they are professionals and yes they should have experience but they should also explain actions and treatment options clearly in a way that is easily understood. If you don't like it, then pay (if proper) and leave and find a new vet. Also, don't feel shy about asking for a second opinion!

Charges should should be laid out clearly in advance as well, if the estimate is too low it should be brought up right away and signed off on.

If you feel uncomfortable or if you truly object to something, like automatic muzzling, then discuss it right away. If they ignore your protest or refuse, leave and find another vet. I don't want my dog to bite anyone anymore then anyone wants to be bitten, but having someone nervous and jumpy can cause more harm then good. If you're uncomfortable around my dog when he's doing nothing but wagging his tail, I don't want you around him.

Yes, there are procedures which are painful. Yes, the vet office 99% of the time is not a fun place to be for an animal. *Vets absolutely along with techs need to protect themselves* but it should be handled appropriately. Animals in pain will lash out, the owner has to understand that. But treatment including restraints should be done with causing as little extra pain and fear as possible. *Vets and techs that treat animals with little regard will never touch my animals, yes animals are not human, but they are living beings and therefore are treated with respect*


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Most vets I've dealt with prescribed a neutering for anything and everything, and get judgmental and sometimes downright hostile when I tell them no thanks


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Shade said:


> *Vets and techs that treat animals with little regard will never touch my animals, yes animals are not human, but they are living beings and therefore are treated with respect*


My dogs have never done any of the disrespectful and down right evil things humans have. In my mind they deserve greater respect than pretty much the majority of all humans I've come across lol


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

hunterisgreat said:


> My dogs have never done any of the disrespectful and down right evil things humans have. In my mind they deserve greater respect than pretty much the majority of all humans I've come across lol


So true unfortunately. 

Darn humans emotions such as greed, anger, fear, and malice :crazy:


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Shade said:


> So true unfortunately.
> 
> Darn humans emotions such as greed, anger, fear, and malice :crazy:


Malice is the only once that is unique to humans lol


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Wow, some of you guys are REALLY nit-picky. If I ever worked at a vet clinic again, I would cringe when I saw you coming. My personal pet peeve was when clients would come in with their pets and insist they know more than the vet does, have a problem with everything the staff does, and act like they want to run the dang place. Where's YOUR veterinary license, I wanted to ask some people.

Maybe I'm just lucky to have worked with great people, but my experience with veterinarians and their staff has been excellent--maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never seen anyone mistreat, mishandle, or "talk down" to clients. I've worked with many veterinarians in my day, and while some of them could be gruff and snarky with their own staff, I've never seen any of them talk to clients that way. The only time I ever saw a vet get into an argument with a client was when that client insisted that we "gave" his dog Parvo by giving her a Parvo vaccine (the dog had lost weight but had no Parvo symptoms). He explained over and over again that it wasn't possible, and the client just kept saying "I know that shot gave her Parvo!" Bear in mind this guy was an old alcoholic that lived in a cabin up in the woods, and wasn't quite right in the head, and the vet shouldn't have engaged in a battle of wits with the unarmed... but the guy WAS really annoying and getting on everyone's nerves.

Anyway, all the vets and staff that I have worked and used have been great with animals. Some are not so good with people, but none have been rude or unpleasant with the clients as far as I could see. Again, maybe I've just been extraordinarily lucky.

I do hear stories from my clients about veterinary staff muzzling and taking three people to hold down their dog for a toenail trim, deemed necessary because the dog hates his toenails done. This is one of those things I think is better done by an experienced groomer, IMO. I have taken dogs who had to be muzzled and held by three people, popped them up on my table, and trimmed all four feet with nary a struggle. I think groomers should do grooming and vets should do vetting.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I love my vets. I can take information in to them when one of the animals are ill, they look at it and either tell me why it won't work, why it's wrong, or why it's a good idea. One of the vet techs is kind of annoying but she doesn't push me on what she thinks is right anymore. Yeah...thanks for that info but I'll discuss it with the vet. She's nice, she's competent, she can just be annoying at time.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I hate these topics. I can safely say that the vast majority of the time when the owners refuse to allow their dog to be restrained by a tech or taken out of the room and tell us that they're the nicest dog in the world who wouldn't hurt a fly,
someone gets bitten. Be it the owner or the vet/vet tech. How many dogs like having a badly infected ear examined? How safe is it for me to stick my face down near your dogs mouth and take a look when you don't approve of the way the dog is being held by someone who is being paid to do it? 

So yeah, I am ecstatic to be working for a veterinary hospital where I don't have to question my own safety during a blood draw because most (and I mean nearly all) owners do not know how to properly restrain a dog to keep me or my vet safe. If clients don't like it, then they can turn right around and go somewhere else. All I can say is that I'd rather be safe than sorry, and I think that putting someone else's safety in jeopardy because you think your 90 lb animal with massive canine teeth and a powerful bite force is "your baby", is ridiculous.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

KZoppa said:


> only when they talk down to me like I'm stupid. But then I will change vets when they do that a couple times. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also when they manhandle my pets without cause to do so. unless they have to hold them still for shots and physical checks, they don't need to be walking in the room and manhandling right off the bat. Vet that did that to Zena is lucky she controlled herself. Could see she wanted to bite him though.
> 
> I don't like techs or vets assuming they know my dogs personality better I do either. That's a good way to get me snapping at them.


I agree with this. I have switched vets NUMEROUS times for repeatedly talking down to me and not respecting my opinions/decisions for my pets. I don't let them touch/restrain either and will leave a vet if they are the types to require this.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

I have good, if a little old fashioned vets. The only time they take my pet out of my sight is to weigh it. The scale is in the back room since they only have one exam room and it's small. I don't mind their holding my pets, although a lot of the time they have let me do it (I let THEM hold my cats .. I'm not stupid!). The only thing we reallllly don't agree on is diet and I just smile and do my own thing. They are very old school. The younger vet that will probably take over the practice one day never makes me feel like a bad owner for being conservative about treatments, although I think he did get a little tired of me calling him every day after my cat had a procedure and I worried and fretted over her 24/7.

One time I did have to go to another vet when mine was down with a broken leg. My dog had just been neutered and I was worried about his stitches. He made me feel like a hysterical female because I wanted him to check them and they were 'okay'. I would never go back to him, that's for sure.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I hate when the vet or tech talks down to me or tries to either oversimplify things or not really give details because they think I won't understand the in depth stuff.
My vet knows me really well and knows I'm knowledgeable so she doesn't do that, but I've had other vets do this in the past, or once in a while if my vet gets a new tech.

I love my vet, the main thing I don't like about my vet now is she's gotten really popular lately so she's really busy! She generally doesn't take my pets out of the room without me, the only reason they go to the back during an appointment is usually for X-rays and I bring them back and then wait (away from the machine). The dog scale is in the waiting room, you weigh them before you go in the exam room. If they need a sedated procedure or something more in depth that is done in the treatment area in back that's different than a normal appointment, usually owners don't go back there but she lets me because she knows me well. I would trust the staff to take them back too since I know my vet and most of the techs very well, but I like to stay with them if I can.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I have tried very hard to not respond to this thread. But annoyance and anger win out 

The tone on this board in regards to vets and techs is really very sad. 

I have been a tech for more years than I care to admit. The vets and techs I have worked with are amazing. 

Yes, sometimes we require that techs hold dogs. Because if that dog bit the owner, WE ARE LEGALLY LIABLE!!!! So if there is doubt, we hold the animal. One vet actually refused to help a woman who refused to get her face out if her angry cats face. 

As for the bills. Ever ask your human Dr what the office visit cost is withOUT insurance???? How about bloodwork? CBC/CHEM for me 350$. At the vets 120. They are not out to rob you blind. They have bills to pay, staff to play, equipment to buy. Vets graduate with an average of 250,000 in debt. Average starting salary, 60,000. Yeah they are getting rich off your 60 office visit. 

You have a right to protect your dog, if a tech is handling your dog wrong or harshly, say something. If one seems scared of your dog, ask to see another. If they are about to do something you did not ask for. SAY SOMETHING. 

But quit bashing an entire profession. We don't do it for the money, we are not out to make you feel stupid. We are here to help. But no, the Dr is NOT going to give you antibiotics because you and DR Google have determined your dog has a UTI, or a URI. If you want to diagnose and prescribe for your own pets, go to Vet school. But don't them how to do their job. I don't come to your work and tell you how to do yours. 

Don't refuse all treatment and tests, then call everyday because your pet is not better. Don't dismiss a Dr and their ideas for treatment, then call everyday with ideas of your own. 

You go to a vet for their professional opinion. If you don't trust them, don't go back. Trust your Vet, trust their staff. If you don't, move on. Trust me we are not taking them in the back so that we can apply medeval torture techniques, or harm your dog. If you think that, go somewhere else. 

I am going to regret this post. Flame on!


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

I work in a vet. My pet peeves?
1- When my coworkers/boss try to tell me that Koda's diet (mixture of raw and Wellness) is unhealthy and I need to switch her to Iams or Purina before she gets sick.
2- When my coworkers/boss tell me that Koda, at a very healthy 65 lbs, is too thin and needs to gain weight. Mind you, all their dogs are obese.
3- When my coworkers/boss go on about how anyone with an intact animal, especially anyone who works at a vet or grooming facility, is immoral and should be fined. 

I am very direct with them, and they generally do not bother me with the first two anymore because they know I won't listen. That, of course, does not stop them from putting clients through the same thing. I just shake my head and , if asked, give my honest opinion of good foods/the animal's weight.

Aside from those things, my coworkers do a wonderful job lol. Great with the pets and owners, skilled, etc


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I don't think the people posting in this thread are condemning the entire profession vet/vet tech.

Many have said positive things including myself where I noted that I've not really had many problems. I mentioned about the internet experts too...

That said there are bad apples out there and some techs that are/can be really rotten (see video of the vet tech in swinging the little dog into the wall in current dog affairs). 






gsdsar said:


> I have tried very hard to not respond to this thread. But annoyance and anger win out
> 
> The tone on this board in regards to vets and techs is really very sad.
> 
> ...


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

When we first moved from IL to WI I went around and interviewed the local vets. Booked time with them for a basic physical on a dog and then questioned them on their thoughts about raw feeding, minimal vax, non-chemical flea and tick treatments and so on. A couple vets were upset that I had the *NERVE *to question them!

Hey - I did the same thing when I was looking for MY new doctor and you should have SEEN what I put the oncologists through when I was selecting one!

Once I settled on a vet I then had to PROVE to them and their staff that I knew what I was doing and saying. That I *COULD *restrain my dog properly. That I was EDUCATED about raw feeding and minimal vax.

Now I rarely go in anymore (dogs just don't get sick) and when I do I sometimes get a new tech. When they reach for the leash and say "I'll take Spot in back" I simply say "No. Whatever you need to do you can do here."

Sometimes they have to go clear it with the vet but they know me so it's ok.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I agree with this. I have switched vets NUMEROUS times for repeatedly talking down to me and not respecting my opinions/decisions for my pets. I don't let them touch/restrain either and will leave a vet if they are the types to require this.


You don't LET THEM TOUCH/RESTRAIN????? Wth?? You realize the liability involved #1 and #2 the fact that my techs not only know how to restrain so I don't get hurt but how I prefer certain things so that I can do my job the best. I don't have time to deal with a know it all owner who thinks they have to hold their animals for X-rays, for example, when they don't know how! No wonder you have switched vets "numerous times." I can't help but think they weren't that sad to see you go.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I can honestly say I LOVE my vet and her staff, even the cranky manager. We have agreed to disagree, she's open to my beliefs and doesn't push hers on me. In the last 3 years the have been extreemly accomodating when emergencies happen including this morning when I without an appointment dropped the kitty off and went to work. The doc wasn't in until later and I was told legally they couldn't treat him I told her that was fine so they set him up in a crate still doc came in. Turns out he has a fever of unknown origin and spending the night.
If I had to complain...the tech insists on bear hugging the dogs for blood draws and by now she knows all you have to do is hold their paw. I could see that turning into a bite incident with a dog that doesn't want a stranger in it's face.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I love my job. There are MANY things that clients do to annoy me. Entitlement, the belief that they know better than an entire staff with collective decades of education, and their seemingly infallible knowledge of the costs of operating the clinic they walked into.

Threads like this make me so, so thankful for my clinic and the wonderful clients that love us as much as we love them.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DJEtzel - what do you mean you don't let them touch or restrain? Ever? 

I hold my dogs, I don't let them take Jax in the back after the way they manhandled her one day and Banshee is not open to strangers. BUT...I'm not opposed to muzzling when needed, or leaving the room if I need to. For instance, Sierra was more intent on hiding behind me so it's better if I leave the room. Chaos could be stood on her head and she wouldn't care. She taught me how to hold a cat last time I was in and I always make sure I"m holding the dogs like they need. 

DH is NEVER allowed to hold the dogs..ever...he's to busy patting them and telling them it's all ok while they are growling. 

But how can they do their jobs if they can never touch or restrain them in any way?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I do help with restraint in some situations, but in others I step back and get out of the way. For example with my old senior cat Sneakers, she had several health problems so had to get bloodwork and blood pressure checks fairly often. She was very grumpy and had arthritis so was sore, and I knew she would try to bite when restrained if she had an opportunity, if she didn't like something they were doing. So I would warn the techs to watch out and then stay out of the way for the most part. 

My Golden was one of those dogs who you could just do whatever you wanted to, and she would just stay still and calmly wag her tail. They didn't have to restrain her, she would wag her tail while she got shots or whatever and then lick the vet when they were done. The only thing they might have to do is if they needed her to stay standing still for a longer period they might have to put a hand underneath her stomach to stop her from laying down and then rolling over for a belly rub. Sometimes when I saw a new vet they would immediately put her in a strong hold, totally unnecessary. She was so calm/tolerant that anyone could walk up to her and pretty much do anything to her. She was so laid back that when I was doing a dog first aid class with her, she almost fell asleep while I was practicing the procedures on her. In fact she scared me when we did the pulse taking because her heart rate was so low since she was so relaxed (~40 bpm!) A vet later commented that she had the 'heart of an athlete' (because her heart rate was slow but strong/healthy).

This was a bigger problem for my other dog, my Rat Terrier, as he did NOT like to be restrained. The harder he was restrained the more panicked he would get, the more he would struggle so the harder they would hold him, etc... If they did the minimum restraint possible for the procedure, he was ok, but a lot of times they would automatically go for a really tight restraint which just made things worse.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Exactly Chicago! If I had tried to restrain Sierra, it would have been worse because she was using me as a shield. Jax needs minimal restrain as does Chaos. Banshee is the one that was always a worry and she was muzzled for many years. Alot depends on the animal but I would never say they couldn't touch or restrain my animals if necessary.


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## Muneraven (Sep 4, 2012)

I've been so lucky and have only encountered two bad vets in my lifetime, and one of them wasn't mine, just a friend of mine's. The other one was a farm animal vet and he was an idiot and pretty much killed my pet Holstein heifer by being clueless. 

Most vets and vet techs are just fabulous people, though. I'm sure on some days they must get tired of seeing overweight, spoiled pets with bad manners but they are always polite and sweet because they understand how much each of us loves our pets.

Maybe the best vet I ever met was a guy out in a small rural town in Minnesota. He saved my cat twice (once a kidney issue and once she swallowed a needle). We had pet rats then and he tried to help us when they got a respiratory illness (common issue with domesticated rats). And when I found a hurt robin once, he tried to nurse it back to health for free. Good guy. He went out to local schools and talked to kids about responsible animal ownership, too. :thumbup:


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I have no problem with a proper restraint. I've worked very hard with both dogs to teach them being held in different positions is not scary. When done in a cool calm manner my dogs do better with less restraint then more. My vet did a fantastic job restraining Delgado, I had no qualms or protests, I simply stepped back and let them do their job


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

When I take my dogs to the vets office I let them do their job. There is no need for me to insist on holding my dogs or being in the room with them if they have to be moved. If you don't trust your vet anymore than that, then maybe you should find another one. I agree that nobody should just sit back and allow things that they be unsure about, but insisting that you have to restrain your dog or be in the room with them is a little extreme. Let the professionals do their job.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I've been fortunate. I have mostly only have had to vet my dogs for shots and boosters. We've had a couple sets of stitches and a broken toenail, but nothing serious. We move a lot, because of my job. I'm happy to report that all with the vets and vet techs we have encountered in five cities in as many years, they have all been sweet, thoughtful, caring people. 

No complaints to report 


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## gsdlover32 (Jul 10, 2013)

At every vet we go to they seem to make us the only patient even for a vaccine. They act like they need to tackle and corner her for everything but she loves the vet and does so well. I have seen many shocked faces when she just sits there and lets them do stuff. She recently was in the ER and just gave them her paw to draw blood without a flinch. Im happy I have a new vet that loves her and gives her space to relax while they do exams which is good for a dog with special needs


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I have no problem with the techs restraining my dog if they feel its necessary but I will argue if they try to remove my pet from the room without me able to follow. I really like the vet I currently use. She's nice, doesn't argue about my vaccination schedule/choices and has zero problems with the fact I want to keep Dax intact. They don't push anything. They're respectful and don't treat me like I'm completely clueless. And they respect the fact that Dax does NOT get a treat without doing something for it. Same goes for the vet I use back home. 

I just won't continue to use a vet who talks down to me, doesn't respect my choices, and basically acts like my spoiled mother when they don't get their way exactly. I listen to their advice, weigh it and decide based on my knowledge of my dog and what would be good or not. Otherwise, my experiences have been pretty decent to completely awesome. My view is if I have a negative experience, how is that going to affect my animal in the situation since they tend to read the situation?


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Restraint is such a tricky wicket to negotiate with an owner. I can't speak for other practices, but for us it's never the first solution. The reality is, however, that there is nothing particularly pleasant about having a complete stranger pinch your elbow, hold your paw, and stab you with an inch-long metal spike. I absolutely don't blame the dogs that object to this rather blatant invasion of their personal space. I think owners forget this when they wonder why we have to hold or muzzle their otherwise well-behaved pets for blood draws, vaccines, or nail trims.
I'm actually surprised at the number of dogs who DON'T object to the unfortunate realities of what we have to do to our patients in the office. I mean, when I go in for vaccines as a grown man the nurses have to literally hold me down. Yet when we flush giant abscesses, manipulate broken bones for splinting, suture lacerations under local, or even just pop off a broken nail bed pets sit there and LET US DO IT. How AMAZING is that?! So it's not surprising that some pets need a little restraint sometimes. It's not surprising to us that your 'angel' turns into a spinning, thrashing, raging ball of 'DONT TOUCH ME STRANGE MAN' when we come at them with needles and a maniacal glint in our eye that suggests the immediate and unavoidable application of some unknown torture.

Let us do what we do RESPONSIBLY and with EDUCATED and PRACTICED restraint. If your vet office is good, all the assistants and techs know exactly how to do as little as possible with regards to restraint to get as much done as they can. Understand that we've seen a hundred little devils that have tried to eat our faces off. We've probably been bitten, more than likely been smacked in the face by a flailing animal, definitely been scratched, and can guarantee we've been anal-glanded, pooped, and peed on during restraint. It's not really what we want to do for you or your dog.
If you feel that restraint is out of line, tell us you're uncomfortable and we'll work around you. If you feel that restraint is irresponsible, go find a new vet. There are plenty of them around.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I've had several vets and groomers compliment my GSD on how "nice/good"she is. They've also told me a lot of the Shepherds they see are aggressive, fearful, and/or hard to handle, so they are pleasantly surprised when they meet one that isn't.

I don't "insist" on going back with my pets. My vet usually just tells me to bring them when she needs them in the back for something. I've never said "I must go with them!" Then again she knows me really well, I've been taking my pets to her for many years and worked for her off and on since she opened her own hospital (although she started inviting me back at the place she used to work, before she opened her own.) I don't_ always_ go with my cats, sometimes such as if I have more than one with me I will stay with one in the exam room while they take the other in the back. However my vet does a lot of stuff in the room anyway, that I know other hospitals will take them in the back to do. 
I did ask her if I could watch my cat's neuter, but I was working there that day anyway, and I asked because I had never seen a neuter and was interested. 
I really like my vet, I followed her from 3 different places to where she is now and I've known her for a long time. She does some holistic treatments, lets you decide if you want to vaccinate, she feeds some raw to her own dogs and sells high quality foods/treats, and she is good at keeping up about new treatment possibilities and things. She also doesn't push early s/n or have an issue with intact dogs, she does things like agility/tracking with her own dogs and they are hunting dogs (her father hunts with them.)


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> I have tried very hard to not respond to this thread. But annoyance and anger win out
> 
> The tone on this board in regards to vets and techs is really very sad.
> 
> ...





Nigel said:


> It really annoys me at the end of each visit when one of them hands me a large bill.


 Perhaps I should have added one of these  to that post. I'm happy with our regular vet, they have done a great job with all 3 of our gsds. All three behave like they should too. They've never muzzled or manhandled them in anyway.

I was a little angry at what I was quoted recently when Zoey needed a root canal and crown done. There is only one place to go here so they've got you over a barrel. Other forum members mentioned what they paid and there was a significant difference. In the end they reduced the cost to be much closer to what other were saying. They ended up pulling one of her upper incisors as well.

Not to sound ignorant, but what is this restraint people are talking about? Is this some kind of doggie mma hold?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Nigel, restraint everyone is talking about is when a tech or multiple techs restrain your animal so it's a great deal harder for them to thrash around and/or bite during shots or skin scraping or other such tasks. Some animals don't take kindly to it at all while others behave better.


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

My veterinary practice has a locum and I always cringe when she's there, she talks to the dogs in a silly baby voice which is annoying..The infuriating thing she does though is talks to the owners in the same voice! It's as if she treats us like complete idiots, next time I know she's working I'll ask not to be seen by her.. She also gave me a wrong diagnosis, but that's another story...


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

I switched vets when I moved and the new one wanted to take Banjo back without me. I mentioned that Banjo wasn't terribly feisty, but would not cooperate in the least if I wasn't in sight. "What do you mean?" "I mean that he will lock up and refuse to let you manipulate him in any manner and resist any attempt to move him." 

Few minutes later tech pops her head out and says "brembo, could you come back here and help us check his ears?" All I had to do was walk into the room and he was the perfect little patient. I guess this was marked in his files as from that visit on I was shown where to take him and asked to remain.

Oh and a little funny story. Urine sample....oh man I horse laughed the poor tech that tied to get his sample. Their technique was to let the dogs outside into a fenced area and run up and hold a cup under the dogs when they marked. Banjo was an odd one when it came to elimination. He was the doggie equivalent of bashful. I might have seen him poop a dozen times in his twelve years. He was a sneaky pee-er too. So here is this tiny(and cute) vet tech chasing Banjo around the fenced area with a cup diving towards him when he lifted a leg, Banjo would take off when she got within 5 feet and give her this look that had me howling. I told them it wasn't going to happen and I would get the sample, I didn't care if I got a little wee on me. Some policy prevented this however.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> I have tried very hard to not respond to this thread. But annoyance and anger win out
> 
> The tone on this board in regards to vets and techs is really very sad.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

THANK YOU!! Can we make a post about idiot know-it-all owners that do their animal way more harm and stress than good? Half the time if you give me your nervous nelly dog and let me take him to the back, he will be CALMER and less stressed! MOST owners dont know how to properly hold their dog or keep them calm, that is a fact, I also can NOT allow you to hold your own dog because if you're bit it's a liability to us!

Im sorry - the majority of the stuff I have seen on here I agree is ridiculous. Vets and techs should NEVER do that, and I'm sorry you experienced that. But some of the stuff on here makes me want to bash my head into a wall! Trust a professional for what they have gone to school to learn and what likely they have YEARS of experience with! The mass opinion on this board, IMHO, towards the profession is very negative amd concerning. It seems the common consensus is that all vets are idiots and out to steal your money. Trust me, just because you google something DOESNT make it true (case in point, we prescribed an antibiotic for a rat the other day with an URI, owner argued with us that he read from a rat doctor online that ANOTHER antibiotic was way better for the condition. Didnt listen to us that the other antibiotic wasnt recommended for rats and could KILL them. Thats what happens sometimes online where everybody is an expert and knows better)

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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

ugavet2012 said:


> You don't LET THEM TOUCH/RESTRAIN????? Wth?? You realize the liability involved #1 and #2 the fact that my techs not only know how to restrain so I don't get hurt but how I prefer certain things so that I can do my job the best. I don't have time to deal with a know it all owner who thinks they have to hold their animals for X-rays, for example, when they don't know how! No wonder you have switched vets "numerous times." I can't help but think they weren't that sad to see you go.


Not to mention the fact they cant be back near xrays per osha regulations. God forbid this owner came in to us on emergency. My doctor would kick them right out the door. You let us do our job how we know how, or you just march yourself somewhere else.

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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

The restraint conversation is really interesting to me. We saw a new vet yesterday. I LOVED LIVED LOVED the vet. Echo has never been a problem at the vet, he would only require a really gentle hold to keep him still.

Yesterday when it came time for the blood draw, the tech practically tackled him, stood with her body over him, and put him in a head lock. He FLIPPED out, and screamed and thrashed like I have NEVER heard an animal do. The vet had to tell her repeatedly to let go of his neck and let go of him. I got pissed, and took him out for a walk to let him calm down. We came back in, a different tech was there. She put him up on the table, held him very gently from behind/the side, and lo and behold, he was perfectly calm and let the vet do the blood draw.

I was so glad the vet said something and got a different tech- I have absolutely no idea if the first one was practicing proper restraint or not, it didn't seem like it (tackling a nervous dog then practically choking him out when he struggles), but at least they listened to me and took my comfort into consideration. I have absolutely no problem with restraint, if done properly. She also respected my decisions about vaccines, asked a lot of questions to get to know him and me and our relationship, and went over every aspect of what she was doing so that there were no "surprises". I was thrilled. 


Bad experiences with vets (being told my dog was "worthless" because only one testicle had descended, taking him in back and doing all kinds of testing I specifically said not to do and then charging for it, pushing vaccines, etc) has made finding a new one more nerve-wracking than finding a date :crazy: but a great vet and staff are worth their weight in gold  I think the vast majority of the "bad experiences" have to do with staff that are jaded from dealing with idiots day in and out.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Anubis_Star said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> THANK YOU!! Can we make a post about idiot know-it-all owners that do their animal way more harm and stress than good? Half the time if you give me your nervous nelly dog and let me take him to the back, he will be CALMER and less stressed! MOST owners dont know how to properly hold their dog or keep them calm, that is a fact, I also can NOT allow you to hold your own dog because if you're bit it's a liability to us!
> 
> ...


I wonder why we have such negative opinions about vets? 

Most push vaccines any chance they get, will put your dog on hill's science diet, and try to manhandle your dog when he is clearly stressed, and nervous. I had one vet tell me that my dog should be muzzled and restrained because he is very aggressive. My dog was 5 months at the time. 5 months. According to her, two techs could not control him in the back room. According to her, orijen is crap and the high protein content makes dogs aggressive. Needless to say I never saw that vet again. 

My current vet, let's me control the dog's head while he does the work he needs to, and explained to me that he sees how much the dog relies on me and would not take him to the back room without me. He understands that I'd rather do a titer (?) test than simply vaccinate and understands that I appreciate the quality ingredients in orijen and don't need his hill's prescription diet or whatever the **** that is. 

I'm not saying vet A is the norm, nor am I saying vet B is the norm. I am saying that searching for a vet I found more of the former than of the latter. 

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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

ayoitzrimz said:


> I'm not saying vet A is the norm, nor am I saying vet B is the norm. I am saying that searching for a vet I found more of the former than of the latter.


I totally agree with this. For me, there's a particular old-school "culture" in many vet practices that I've learned I don't care for. In my experience over the years, the kind of "bad" vet I've encountered over and over and been unhappy with has tended to be older, male, very set in his ways, not open to conversations about alternative approaches, likely not keeping up with newer treatment protocols that had recent peer-reviewed studies, and dismissive of questions about things he doesn't know about. Time and time again, my dogs don't like "that" vet either. It's a stereotype, but one I've encountered repeatedly.

The vet market is saturated in many cities, so for young vets reading this thread, I think there _is _a helpful theme that emerges, aside from manhandling dogs: people keep saying they hate it when their vet talks to them like they're stupid, dismisses questions and pushes junky dog food. Just as medical doctors are learning to _talk with _patients about their Internet research and engage in education and active dialogue, good vets are learning to do it too. I think the old-style of practice ("do what I say and don't question that I know best") is not the future -- good vets, like good doctors, are realizing clients _are _researching, so talking about what they're finding is an essential part of the relationship now ("here's what I recommend, here are my thoughts on what you found and why the science doesn't support it, why we can or cannot try it, and here's what I know about good scientific studies examining that option...")

I absolutely LOVE my current vet and his whole staff. It took me a long time to find this practice--and so do my dogs. He's young, has a smart scientific mind, keeps up with current research, and willingly researches when he hasn't heard of something I come across -- he is a science geek, so he wants to learn instead of reacting with ego. He'll gladly read peer-reviewed studies I send him, talk to friends at the vet school for opinions, examine outcomes at other clinics, etc. 

It likely helps that I don't send him silly drivel from unreliable sources. For example, when I see a new article from UPenn vet school on an eye treatment suggesting drops are better than ointment for my dog's exact condition, and my dog is on ointment, my vet will read it, find it interesting, and gladly switch my dog to drops without being affronted or feeling slighted -- he'll be glad to learn about the new findings at UPenn!

When we went through a scare about kidney values, he knew I wasn't going to be thrilled about the Royale Canin and Science Diet RX foods his practice sells, and he respected that. He was very supportive of home prepared diets. When I mentioned I found a PhD/DVM nutritionist online out of a major vet school who consults nationally on home-prepared medical diets, my vet was very supportive, offered to call and set it up for me so that we would work together with the consultant, and thought it was a terrific option. I've had other vets in the past who act as though feeding anything other than commercial kibble is deadly, and no client is capable of ever making their own dog food.

I like that the attitude is that we're partners in my dogs' health. It probably helps that I don't fuss over the big bills (it's an expensive practice), and we spend a ton of money there (we board there too, and often bring the dogs for "play care"). The staff is good to my dogs in every possible way, in part because they see them so often and know them very well.

The end result of this kind of relationship is that I send them a lot of new business. Many of the foster dogs I've adopted out are now clients there, as their adopters wanted my recommendation. I never, ever hesitate to tell them how great this place is.


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## lyssa62 (May 5, 2013)

I love both the vets in our office and ALL the techs. I guess again I'm lucky


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I think some of you guys who work at vets are taking this way too personally.

That's human nature tho...


btw IN GENERAL - I don't understand why some vets insist on taking dogs away for simple procedures like a blood draw for heartworm test. I don't like it, I'm 50 years old and have held everything from 1200 pd horses to little mini poodles for vets and my presence never *used* to be a problem. Now in some practices they absolutely won't even do simple procedures and frankly, I don't like it and I don't think it's necessary in *every* case.

My dogs do well when I'm in the room and I've even assisted in restraining/holding the dog per vet's request?

When Ilda had an ear infection the vet couldn't get a swab in her ear, I asked if I could try, got the sample she needed, she thanked me and I was glad to help and Ilda remained in a calmer state too. Ilda trusts me the most and taking her in back and have strangers restrain her to get the swab would not have been a good experience for her even if they were gentle. 

Now when Ilda needed her hips xrayed, they sedated her in front of me, took her back for the xray, brought her back to the exam room and reversed the sedation. It went as smooth as silk and the vet just warned me they can act a little funky when they wake up. I was cool, stayed with my dog, she was happy, I was happy and the vet was happy too because he got what he needed to do his job. :shrug:

I know some owners may be over protective and over reactive but seems to me that shouldn't be a problem for everyone?

Anyhoo.... I like going to vets who also practice large animal medicine, they seem to have a different 'way' about them that suits me, more down-to-earth.







Anubis_Star said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> THANK YOU!! Can we make a post about idiot know-it-all owners that do their animal way more harm and stress than good? Half the time if you give me your nervous nelly dog and let me take him to the back, he will be CALMER and less stressed! MOST owners dont know how to properly hold their dog or keep them calm, that is a fact, I also can NOT allow you to hold your own dog because if you're bit it's a liability to us!
> 
> ...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

On the subject of restraint....

I had to take Jax in for laser therapy today and talked to the vet tech (the one that periodically annoys me LOL) and we discussed this.

Her response was they have no problem letting an owner restrain their animal as long as everyone is SAFE. That is the key word. If it's an aggressive dog and the owner is patting the dog on the head..that is NOT safe. If it's a dog like Jax who I can stand on her head, and I"m properly restraining her then it's not an issue. If it's one like Banshee who will bite but I am properly restraining her and have the strength to, it's not an issue.

My suggestion to all those that are adamantly against a vet or tech restraining their dog is to ask how to do it properly. If you can't do it properly, don't have the strength or just refuse to, then you need to step aside.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Anubis_Star said:


> THANK YOU!! Can we make a post about idiot know-it-all owners that do their animal way more harm and stress than good? Half the time if you give me your nervous nelly dog and let me take him to the back, he will be CALMER and less stressed!



Owners need to really think about this statement. This is why I left the room when Sierra was hiding behind me. I knew she was safe with this vet and this vet tech so I had no worries. It's also why I prefer that DH not be in the room when we are doing things with Banshee. She feeds off him and knows he lets her get away with things. 

Example: He's cutting her nails. She growls. He lets her get away with it and stops trimming her nails.

She growls at me and we have a Come to Jesus meeting and I continue cutting her nails with her cooperation.

A LOT of the issues are when the owners let their animals get away with being a jerk and the animals feed off them.

Just be aware of how your animal is reacting to your behavior and be able to properly restrain your animals. I would have no issue signing a release if I got bit by my own animal while restraining them. Would you?


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

When we're talking about our profession we're going to take it personally. If we suddenly started bashing groomers on this board I bet the groomers would chime in and let us know their opinions on their livelihoods. The bottom line is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. We're here to remind folks that there is a reality among our clients that 'good' owners don't see and that there are plenty of good apples in the orchard.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

**Most** people are referring to specific techs or incidents not your profession in general. So I think you're extrapolating a general attack on your profession that doesn't really exist.

Lots of people have chimed in on this thread with positive comments or comments like mine which are our experiences with vets/techs have been mostly positive.

If you're good at your job and your clients are happy that's really all that matters.


I do think one dynamic is changing and it has to do with people having tighter and tighter budgets and therefore pushing back on some things they may not have in the past. That's a reality that's pressing in on the vets AND their clients, lack of funds and increasing costs of pet care. IMHO I think that's creating more bad feelings then there used to be in the past.





marbury said:


> When we're talking about our profession we're going to take it personally. If we suddenly started bashing groomers on this board I bet the groomers would chime in and let us know their opinions on their livelihoods. The bottom line is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. We're here to remind folks that there is a reality among our clients that 'good' owners don't see and that there are plenty of good apples in the orchard.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Now wait....some of us have reasons for why we restrain our animals or why we don't allow our animals to be taken in the back. 

For instance, I had Sierra at the vet (not my current vet) and the vet tech walked in, didn't say a word, took her leash and dragged her across the room...in a PRONG collar...before I could even react. 

The guy that manhandled Jax (at my current vet) was ridiculous. He terrified her.

Am I cautious? Yes. Do I take it to extremes like not allowing them to ever restrain my animals? No. But WHO is going to take charge of my animal is certainly a consideration. Not everyone has dog savvy, as was proved with the tech in the prong collar incident, and I am ultimately responsible for me animals well being.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

marbury said:


> When we're talking about our profession we're going to take it personally. If we suddenly started bashing groomers on this board I bet the groomers would chime in and let us know their opinions on their livelihoods. The bottom line is a few bad apples spoil the bunch. We're here to remind folks that there is a reality among our clients that 'good' owners don't see and that there are plenty of good apples in the orchard.


But the thread was about the bad apples.
If you are one of the good ones, why on earth would you take this personally?


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Oh, I don't! Someone just mentioned that 'we were taking it too personally', and I was explaining I didn't earlier, although I wanted to point out that we have every right to let y'all know how awesome we are. Chill out, guys! It's all good.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't take it personally, but I think the whole notion of not letting a technician touch your dog is absolutely mind boggling. If you think that you can do it at home by yourself, then don't even bother coming to the vet.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

E


Gwenhwyfair said:


> I think some of you guys who work at vets are taking this way too personally.
> 
> That's human nature tho...
> 
> ...


Our vet is also the vet for a big cat rescue. I'm sure after working with lions and tigers, an unruly pup is a walk in the park.


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## heronponie (Sep 27, 2011)

My biggest pet peeve with vets/techs is the attitude or assumption that every owner is a clueless idiot. I know lots of pet owners ARE pretty clueless, but please- hold judgement until you get a chance to know me. You might decide that I'm a useless coddling handler, or a know it all- and that's fine, just spend a few minutes with me before you decide. 

I am with my current vet because they treated me like a semi-sane/reasonable person from the first meeting. Of course they were skeptical at first, they have no frame of reference when they meet me. I was skeptical too, but we both came to the appointment with open minds and built our opinions of each other from there. 

As an example, one of my dogs is a yappie little Eskie. The breed has a stereotype of being nippy (and with good reason), but I know my dog and I know her thresholds. I also know how much of a loaded statement it is for me to say, "It's ok! She won't bite!"  So instead, I show up to appointments with a well fitted muzzle in hand, and offer to put it on if they feel uncomfortable with her behaviour. Most vets/groomers who have met her will take my word for it and soon discover that I wasn't kidding when I said she doesn't bite. I wouldn't expect them to believe that without the benefit of experience. 

I think it would benefit some vets/techs to keep in mind that they may have decades of experience in the field, but I have decades of experience with *my pet*. I am your best resource when it comes to their norms, their preferences, even just feeling what's "off", etc. Use me! Don't leave me in the waiting room.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I do think every vet should have his or her staff read some good books on how to behave around dogs.

I can't tell you how many come into the room, and either stand over the dog and stare at him, or tower and reach over to pet his *head*, or jab their fist in front of his face for him to sniff.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sunflowers said:


> I do think every vet should have his or her staff read some good books on how to behave around dogs.
> 
> I can't tell you how many come into the room, and either stand over the dog and stare at him, or tower and reach over to pet his *head*, or jab their fist in front of his face for him to sniff.


That did happen alot at my previous vet. I love the vets I go to now. They come in and talk to us, pretty much ignoring the dogs while the dogs sniff them. After several minutes, they reach out a hand. And CALM...if you could bottle these two men as a calming agent you'd be rich!


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## redandgold (Jul 2, 2013)

Nope, thankfully. My vet is awesome. Even my cat who is very wild and quick to fear aggression likes him.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> .... I love the vets I go to now. They come in and talk to us, pretty much ignoring the dogs while the dogs sniff them. After several minutes, they reach out a hand. And CALM...if you could bottle these two men as a calming agent you'd be rich!


Michelle, do you go to our vet? 

The vet techs are wonderful, compassionate, dog-smart people. We are all down on the floor: Mars, the vet, the tech holding Mars, and me talking to the dog and the vet. The tech is usually rubbing Mars' ears, if there is any tension.

I will remember for the rest of my life the enormous kindness of John (yes I know the techs by name) as he cradled Wolf in his arms to take him out of the car on Wolf's last day.

MJ


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## Ares God Of War (Jan 13, 2011)

Nit necessarily annoy me. But the vet did ask me if Karma was full blooded and I said yes and they then informed me that it looked like she had ridgeback in her... hmmmm

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## 3GSD92_00_12 (Mar 28, 2013)

The only too bad experiences at the vet's office involved our Jenna. The first incident was when she was still just a puppy and had an ear infection. When the female vet tech put the q-tip in her ear to get a sample, Jenna yelped in pain. Well, the next time she went to the vet's and they were going to take her temperature ( they used an ear thermometer), she would have none of that....so instead of taking her temp the other way, they just put a muzzle on her and when ahead with getting that temperature. We switched vets after that.
The second incident was the one that broke my heart. My mom and I had noticed that Jenna was having hard time walking. She was not using one of her legs, so when my dad cal led to see if he needed to go to the store for anything, we told him to just get home Now! Well, he got home, but Jenna couldn't get up very well. He called the vet's office and told them it was an emergncy. We got to the vet's...and we had to wait outside with Jenna laying down in the back of the Explorer until a room was made available. After maybe 10 minutes, a room was made available. Tragically, even then we had to wait and as we waited...we lost her. Of course, my dad stuck his head out the door and the vet says"I didn't know you were in there", when my dad told her that Jenna was gone. Well, my dad sent them an email to let them know how dissapointed we were. They replied back that they had been busy with another emergency at the time. Sorry, but that was not true. If there had been an emergency before our emergency with Jenna, then we should have been told and nobody seemed to be working in a rush around there. Those were the two bad experiences we had. Any other times have been good. Gypsy loves going to the vet's and if the vet needs her to do something like getting her to lay down, my dad and I help them by getting her into that position and talking to her to calm her.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Mary Jane said:


> Michelle, do you go to our vet?
> 
> The vet techs are wonderful, compassionate, dog-smart people. We are all down on the floor: Mars, the vet, the tech holding Mars, and me talking to the dog and the vet. The tech is usually rubbing Mars' ears, if there is any tension.
> 
> ...


Some of them are just truly outstanding, aren't they. Dr. Andy got right down on the floor with Sierra, who loves people but is extremely fearful and undersocialized, and by the time we left she had gone from shaking to giving him kisses. Banshee could not be handled without a muzzle at the previous vet but she's fine with both of these guys. She only gets snarky when she's having blood drawn or her temperature taken.

I do miss a couple of the vet techs at the previous vets. They could take Banshee and just walk off with her with no problem.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

The thing a lot of people dont understand though - the MAJORITY of owners cant hold their own animals. The MAJORITY of animals that are stressed do much better in the back away from owners. The MAJORITY of owners think their animal will be better with them and better for them, when in reality that's exactly the opposite. 

Now, I guess we should keep in mind my field. I dont do general day practice. I do high volume emergency medicine. I usually dont know you, I dont know your animal. And I'm sorry, a lot of the time I dont have time to get to know you well enough to weed you out from the crazy owner that is stressing their own pet out more than the pet's actual illness. Please keep in mind, if you ARE the saint owner you are in a very small MINORITY. Most people say the same exact thing all of you guys are saying, but when it comes down to it they're naive and wrong. Just plain wrong. They DONT have control of their pet. They tell you their pet would never bite as it crouches in the corner growling at you. They coddle and fidget and reinforce negative behaviors left and right.

There are horrible techs and horrible vets. Ive experienced them, I know. Luckily I've never WORKED with them, I think they are the minority as well. Ive only worked with great vets and techs. 

We know the concept all too well of less is more with some pets. I am a burrito goddes for cats, I rarely scruff. I'll burrito cats left and right in towls, usually offers just as much restraint while being more calming for the cat.

At the same time, I'm going to PROPERLY restrain your large dog for a blood draw, that means I am going to place my arm under his neck, and craddle his head against my shoulder. Not applying any pressure, not choking him, but his head will not able able to rip around and snap if he does when we put a large size needle into his skin unexpectedly. If you want me to take your word that your dog is not going to bite me as I, a complete stranger, poke a naturally reserved breed with painful needles, you're crazy. I had a coworker require plastic surger when a boxer suddenly jumped up and grabbed her lip. That was after the dog had been in the clinic for several hours, we had been working on him and he had been fine up until that point. Dogs have breaking points. If you expect me to just hold their paw and poke them with either no restraint or nothing but an inexperienced owner lacking a decent grip inbetween their teeth and my face, then you better start paying me a LOT more. And yet you're still complaining about high bills 

It just blows my mind. Such naive expectations so many people have.

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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

LOL! I bet, that's pretty cool.

Always found it amazing when on the farm, there's this college educated man/lady trudging through the early April mud and slush and manure (back in my home state of MI), wrestling with an 800 pound heifer and usually grinning afterwards. Checking horses for impaction colic, up to their arm pits in the horse's behind...

I guess because in those situations you often really do need to help the vet I'm used to it. I held up many a half knocked out horse's head while they had their teeth floated (later vets had slings or one had a crutch that he used...)anyhoo...

btw - I don't mind vets/techs having to restrain my dogs to do a blood draw or give a shot but I have to honestly say I know my dogs, I train a lot and in my case my dogs do just fine when I'm there. I've never had serious problems and usually leave with the vet/techs complimenting them for good behavior.





Nigel said:


> E
> 
> Our vet is also the vet for a big cat rescue. I'm sure after working with lions and tigers, an unruly pup is a walk in the park.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Yeah, on large animal calls, the owner usually helps as our docs don't usually take a tech with them. Unless requested. 

I will say, once I went to help with a castration if a 3 yo Warmblood. Owner was a large animal tech, but was VERY pregnant with multiples, so could not help. Of course, the horse would not go down, came up violently, and dangerously. Owner, being a competent and well trained tech tried to help and nearly got slammed into a wall when the horse got crazy. I had to jump in and get her out if the way. May have come off as brash, but Her safety and that if her babies was paramount. She understood. But I bet it was hard for to watch her horse thrash and not be able to help. 

I love horses. Have ridden my whole life. But this was a scary experience. Sometimes you forget how dangerous a horse can be. But my vet was cool and calm the entire time. Such a consummate professional. Truly amazing. And horse did fine. 

But it's the same for dogs. Your wonderful, loving, sweet dog CAN be dangerous. Dogs don't understand what we are doing. It's a stressful situation. Pain is involved, sometimes. Restraint is scary. I try to be as calm and gentle as I can. But it is not feasible for us to take 45 minutes to calm, reassure and make it perfect and happy for your dog. It's just not. So sometimes we have to just get things done. 

I hate knowing that I cause stress and fear in some dogs. It sucks on my part as well. Would I love for every dog to love me and let me do everything without protest or fear, you betcha. But it's just not going to happen. Having an owner freak and stress every time I touch their dog " because Pookie is terrified" makes it a lot worse. 

I agree that there are good and bad Dr and techs. But to walk into a hostile room because of something I have no control over, is horrible as well. 


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I like my vet and his staff. There were some comments from the techs regarding raw, vaccines & him being intact. But they were just giving me their opinion. But they were not rude. It takes alot to get my feathers ruffled. I have a different approach with regards to health for my boy. No biggie. At the end of the day it's my decision & I don't pretend to know it all & have got excellent advice from the vet & staff.

I have no problem with the staff taking him out of the room. He will be fine & he returns the same dog

When he was dropped off a few weeks ago for his neuter the girl came out to get him, put his ID tag on, take my collars off & put theirs on. He happily started going back with her then realized I was not following & turned around and started to drag her across the lobby. I could see the panic on her face. I stayed calm told her he was obedience trained, tell him what she wants him to do & walk like she means it! He complied and off they went. It helps if we communicate with them as well.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

I liked my local vet a lot. She was good with my dog and when he got into the trash can and swallowed a chicken bone, she took him in right away.

However, I'm not sure what the techs did to him when they were in the back room. I offered to go help them and they said no. That's fine, since I always give the benefit of the doubt that they know their job. But then when I took my dog back for the second followup, he bit them. They said he got out of the nuzzle and bit the tech. 

On my third follow up visit, I was happy to know the dog was fine and the x-rays showed no bone at all. But a different tech took him to the back for the x-ray, and the dog again got out of the muzzle and bit him too. So, that was it.

I started taking the dog to my parents vet, who lives over an hour away. But my dog likes that vet and the techs a lot and has never been aggressive to them, no matter what procedure they do to him. For me, I just want the techs to know what they are doing and not get hurt. My dog is big and strong and I know he can be aggressive if he is not handled properly.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Yup, horses and cattle are very dangerous, their kick can be deadly, they spook, rear and flip over on you and you may be dead. In their minds it becomes a life or death struggle and their sheer weight and strength easily overcome even the strongest vet/owners. 

Good thing you were there to help with the warmblood!

I guess because of my experience with horses where a big deal is made about teaching the horse from a young age to be handled transferred over to my dogs. Young horses you touch them everywhere, you pick up their hooves, lift their tails, run your hands all over them to teach them to accept these sensations as not being threatening. This later translates to vets needing to handle them as well. 

I actually do the same thing with my dogs. I started playing with little Autumn's ears, tickle inside of her ears and paws and paw pads, gentle tugging her toe nails, lifting her tail but making it seem like a game. By the time she had to go to a vet she was a little uncertain about being up on slippery shiny metal table but other then that vet didn't even need to do anything to really restrain her. The vet did say people don't handle their puppies enough and that causes problems later down the road I can certainly empathize with that as I've had to medicate dogs (and horses) that were unruly and hard to handle too. 

What I don't like are the vets who just make it a generic rule to take the dog out of the room for even simple procedures. I've had animals all my life and have been to many a vet visit with them and that did not used to be the 'rule'. I don't like being lumped with the fru-fru crowd that doesn't take the time to train or handle their animals. 

I will not regularly patronize a vet practice that takes the dog out of the room for basic checkups and procedures like a blood draw. The vet I usually go to doesn't do that, but then again they are also in the country and a large animal practice too so it's probably a different clientele and mindset.





gsdsar said:


> Yeah, on large animal calls, the owner usually helps as our docs don't usually take a tech with them. Unless requested.
> 
> I will say, once I went to help with a castration if a 3 yo Warmblood. Owner was a large animal tech, but was VERY pregnant with multiples, so could not help. Of course, the horse would not go down, came up violently, and dangerously. Owner, being a competent and well trained tech tried to help and nearly got slammed into a wall when the horse got crazy. I had to jump in and get her out if the way. May have come off as brash, but Her safety and that if her babies was paramount. She understood. But I bet it was hard for to watch her horse thrash and not be able to help.
> 
> ...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The reason that animals are taken back to the treatment room for procedures like a blood draw, is simply because that's where the supplies are kept and that's where the techs are. Sometimes they can do these procedures in the exam room, but exam rooms tend to be small, and it can be hard to squeeze in a tech to take the blood, another to hold the animal, the owner and whomever is with the owner, etc.

Also, MOST dogs are better behaved for certain procedures when their owner is NOT present. There are exceptions to this, but most people do not bother to train, socialize, desensitize, or do anything to their dogs, so most dogs are not used to having their blood drawn, toenails trimmed, etc. So when the owner is near, many dogs tend to be bratty and act up more. Take the dog away from the owner, and he will usually become more compliant, less of a drama queen, and less likely to bite. I know this because I've been doing it every day for the past 20-some-odd years.

Now, your dog might be the exception, but the vet doesn't know that, and he's going to do what is safest, easiest, and most comfortable for the animal by taking the owner out of the picture momentarily. Plus, as I said, it's easier to take the dog to the place that is set up and supplied to do procedures, rather than dragging all the techs and supplies into a small room that is not really set up for it.

There sure are a lot of paranoid people here. I'm so glad I don't work in veterinary medicine anymore. I have enough paranoid owners to deal with just grooming pets! People, pet professionals are not in the business of doing anything mean, harmful, abusive, or careless with your pets. People go into this business for a reason, and that reason is that they love animals... cause it sure doesn't pay enough to deal with neurotic humans who refuse to trust your education, training, judgment, skill, and compassion. It's downright insulting to hear some of you say you "don't allow restraint" or don't allow the pet to be taken out of your sight; why would you even bother to take your pet to a professional if you can't trust them? Yes, there are a few bad apples in the profession just like there are bad apples in any profession, but in my experience, they are few and far between enough that you shouldn't have to *worry* about it.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

My regular vet doesn't take them out of the room so it's not a real problem for me! 

I don't know what it is though, I'm really *not *paranoid, like when I've left dogs for surgery or when Ilda had her x-rays I didn't worry when they took her back. I've also left my dogs with groomers and didn't worry about it. btw- my groomer used to work at petsmart and she said it was SO hard to groom the dogs when the owners would stand right there at that big window and watch. The dogs would become anxious to get back to their owners and start fussing....but I think petsmart does that to give the pet owners the comfort of being able to see how their pets are doing. Double edged sword type of thing though.

It's just been that for years and years I've always been with my animals when they were having simple procedures done (large and small) and it was not a problem for the vets then. 

I'm pretty easy going mostly and honestly I've never had a problem being in the room with my dogs for basic procedures and my vet will chat with me about what she/he is seeing, feeling and examining right there and I like that. I think the communication is important and there have been times where my presence was helpful.

I won't regularly patronize a vet practice that doesn't allow me to stay with my dogs during basic procedures.





Freestep said:


> The reason that animals are taken back to the treatment room for procedures like a blood draw, is simply because that's where the supplies are kept and that's where the techs are. Sometimes they can do these procedures in the exam room, but exam rooms tend to be small, and it can be hard to squeeze in a tech to take the blood, another to hold the animal, the owner and whomever is with the owner, etc.
> 
> Also, MOST dogs are better behaved for certain procedures when their owner is NOT present. There are exceptions to this, but most people do not bother to train, socialize, desensitize, or do anything to their dogs, so most dogs are not used to having their blood drawn, toenails trimmed, etc. So when the owner is near, many dogs tend to be bratty and act up more. Take the dog away from the owner, and he will usually become more compliant, less of a drama queen, and less likely to bite. I know this because I've been doing it every day for the past 20-some-odd years.
> 
> ...


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Most annoying ever: I took my (now passed) male dog to the vet for a tumor removal. On the to be signed surgery approval form I wrote with a marker: NO NEUTERING.
The vet tech said, "But it is so tempting."
With every surgery I was worried about that. But he died the way he was born; intact, sweet dog never caused a problem.
Ever since this remark I will do this for every male dog I will have.


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## ltsgsd (Jan 31, 2009)

Overall I love my vet. He is getting used to seeing a working dog so that is new to him. The one this I hate is one of the techs wants to play all cuddly with my GSD. Most of the time he is aloof and does not pay attention but she approached and half crouches , hands extended ,mouth open, oohing and ahhing. Dexter gave her a warning grumble, I ask that she not approach and she "huffs " at me and keeps moving foward. Dexter rumbles at this point and is in a stare down with her and as I step between and again ask her not to do this and tell he she is going to get bit , the recepionist pops her head up and tells the girl not to appraoch this dog like that or she will get bitten. I just look at her and shake my head. She was new but still, when the owner warns you you might want to listen!!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> On the to be signed surgery approval form I wrote with a marker: NO NEUTERING.
> The vet tech said, "But it is so tempting."
> With every surgery I was worried about that.


Seriously? You didn't realize that was a joke, and you actually thought they would just neuter your dog without you telling them to?

Where does this paranoia about vets come from? I'm honestly starting to think that there must be a lot of terrible vets that I've never met or heard about. I can't think of anything else that would justify all the paranoia I'm seeing in this thread.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Seriously? You didn't realize that was a joke, and you actually thought they would just neuter your dog without you telling them to?
> 
> Where does this paranoia about vets come from? I'm honestly starting to think that there must be a lot of terrible vets that I've never met or heard about. I can't think of anything else that would justify all the paranoia I'm seeing in this thread.


There is some truth in every joke and to me it wasn't worth the risk to ignore it. In our area neutering is default. All pups and kittens are spayed and neutered as early as 8 weeks or when they are over 2 pounds. Dog lovers have stickers on their cars to tell us that we need to neuter and spay. Dog testicles seem to be the epiphany of bad dog ownership. It has become obsessive IMO. That's why I am protective of them


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> There is some truth in every joke and to me it wasn't worth the risk to ignore it. In our area neutering is default. All pups and kittens are spayed and neutered as early as 8 weeks or when they are over 2 pounds. Dog lovers have stickers on their cars to tell us that we need to neuter and spay. Dog testicles seem to be the epiphany of bad dog ownership. It has become obsessive IMO. That's why I am protective of them


That doesn't mean that your vet is going to neuter someone's dog without them asking. Haven't you ever seen a surgical consent form?


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

My dog has been diagnosed with every critical disease german shepherds get based on absolutely no symptoms, just the fact that he's a german shepherd. Of course he didn't have ANY of them, my vet was just a quack. She eventually conceded that he was the healthiest german shepherd she's ever treated. Now I go to a new vet who doesn't make up diagnoses to chisel me out of money.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Most annoying ever: I took my (now passed) male dog to the vet for a tumor removal. On the to be signed surgery approval form I wrote with a marker: NO NEUTERING.
> The vet tech said, "But it is so tempting."
> With every surgery I was worried about that. But he died the way he was born; intact, sweet dog never caused a problem.
> Ever since this remark I will do this for every male dog I will have.


I can relate to this.
I turned in a 10 year old dog for exploratory surgery and the vet neutered him. 
Without permission.
It also turned out that the "thing that shouldn't be there" on my dog's x-ray was his bladder.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Freestep said:


> That doesn't mean that your vet is going to neuter someone's dog without them asking. Haven't you ever seen a surgical consent form?


Of course they won't do this on purpose but people have lost their good leg in amputations and yes, I have seen the consent forms; it is the one I write that message on. Vet techs shouldn't make jokes like that; it is not ethical. 
Would be nice to hear responses on this topic from the vet techs on this forum.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Freestep said:


> That doesn't mean that your vet is going to neuter someone's dog without them asking. Haven't you ever seen a surgical consent form?


Of course they won't do this on purpose but people have lost their good leg in amputations and yes, I have seen the consent forms; it is the one I write that message on. Vet techs shouldn't make jokes like that; it is not ethical.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> That doesn't mean that your vet is going to neuter someone's dog without them asking. Haven't you ever seen a surgical consent form?


If you think it doesn't happen, I am here to tell you that it did happen to me.
I took it all the way to the state veterinary board.
The vet got fined, but they circled the wagons and all he got was a slap on the wrist.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Freestep said:


> There sure are a lot of paranoid people here. I'm so glad I don't work in veterinary medicine anymore. I have enough paranoid owners to deal with just grooming pets! People, pet professionals are not in the business of doing anything mean, harmful, abusive, or careless with your pets. People go into this business for a reason, and that reason is that they love animals... cause it sure doesn't pay enough to deal with neurotic humans who refuse to trust your education, training, judgment, skill, and compassion. It's downright insulting to hear some of you say you "don't allow restraint" or don't allow the pet to be taken out of your sight; why would you even bother to take your pet to a professional if you can't trust them? Yes, there are a few bad apples in the profession just like there are bad apples in any profession, but in my experience, they are few and far between enough that you shouldn't have to *worry* about it.


:beer:

Good riddance I say!

Seriously, some of the things I'm hearing in this thread make me want to :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Take your dog and go elsewhere, because you are exactly the type of client I dont want to deal with, and I'm sure many in this field would agree. I'm not here to pamper and coddle you as the owner. Im here to do my job as I've been trained for, have worked hard for. It IS insulting, you dont even trust me to do the most basic aspects of my job? Why are you at the vet even? Go Google your home remedy where no one will choke your poor puppy.

Clients love me. I'm not saying that to be cocky. Im saying that because I work my arse off, I love what I do, and I'm good with patients and clients. I work crazy hours to save lives, not convince you I know what I'm doing. That may make me sound like an undesirable tech to you, but frankly I dont have time to do otherwise when I only have 1 dr on, 1 other technician, 18 hospitalized patients, and 6 in the lobby waiting to be seen. You let me do my job as I know how, NOT you, or you find somewhere else and hope your pet isnt dying.

I honestly dont think I've EVER done a blood draw in a room. Not one time I can think of. I have placed iv catheters in euthanasia patients that couldn't walk well. 



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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Utopia Vet Clinic

Press 01 to schedule an appointment for your pet. 

Press 02 to have your pet seen immediately. 

Press 03 to speak directly to the veterinarian. 

Press 04 to obtain the veterinarian's home telephone number. 

Press 05 to tell a receptionist or technician your life history, as well as your pet's. 

Press 06 to yell at a receptionist or technician. 

Press 07 to yell at the veterinarian. 

Press 08 to disagree with the veterinarian's diagnosis or treatment plan because you read something different on the Internet. 

Press 09 to ask the same question 30 times just in case the answer might change.

Press 10 if you feel your pet's condition is more important than the emergency patient the veterinarian is currently seeing. 

Press 11 if your pet's condition has persisted 6 months but has suddenly become an emergency and needs to seen this evening because you are going on vacation tomorrow. 

Press 12 if your pet hasn't eaten in 10 days and you've only just become concerned. 

Press 13 if you are angry because you declined all treatments and your pet is now declining rapidly. 

Press 14 to determine if your pet's condition is serious enough to be seen immediately. If it is after midnight, our team of experts will be standing by to debate the issue with you for as long as it takes to agree it can wait until tomorrow. 

Press 15 if your dog hasn't had a bowel movement in more than 8 days, you've only just become concerned, have no money and you just want free advice over the phone. 

Press 16 to demand immediate treatment but would like us to hold your check until next month. 

Press 17 if you would like to post date a previously post-dated check. 

Press 18 if you need to bring in 10 unvaccinated puppies with vomiting and diarrhea and you'll only have $20 in your pocket. 

Press 19 if you plan to arrive at our surgery facility in a new Jaguar XJS but can only pay for routine vaccinations at $5 a month. 

Press 20 if you got a puppy from the shelter, it has come down with parvo, and you are extremely angry that no veterinarian will treat it for free. 

Press 21 if you want to know if you can refer a friend who "rescues" elderly, sick pets from euthanasia and want to know if she will get a multi pet discount. 

Press 22 if you still consider the cat you've owned for 10 years a stray because now it is sick. 

Press 23 if you would like to euthanize a pet that you cannot afford to take care of.

Press 24 to find out our busiest times, so that you can ensure that when you show up without an appointment and demand to be seen, maximum chaos will ensue. 

Press 25 if you are not a client but were referred by a "good friend" and you want to call the veterinarian at home in the early morning as she is trying to get ready for work and get her kid up for school as you can talk about your pet who has been seen by another veterinarian but is not getting better and you want to set up an appointment with her for a second opinion but first you want to know how much for an exam fee. 

Press 26 if you would like to call the veterinarian at home after hours on his/her day off to discuss whether your pet's problem is worth bothering the veterinarian who is on call (at your normal practice). 

Press 27 if you want us to trim the nails on your aggressive 100lb dog. 

Press 28 if your reptilian pet has been living in an incredibly small tank in a cold dark room and has not eaten for 60 days, despite you having offered it several types of chocolate and potato chips. 

Press 29 if your pet has removed its bandage because you took off the E-collar, even though we explicitly requested you leave it on. 

Press 30 if you think people have been coming into your house at night and pulling out your cat's teeth (this happened!) 

Press 31 if you think that your dog is suicidal. (True story.) 

Press 32 if, even after three previous phone calls in which you were told that we are a Veterinary Hospital and DO NOT sell parrots, you still need clarification of the matter. 

Press 33 if you are allergic to electricity and want all the electric equipment turned off while you are in the clinic. (seriously?)

Press 34 if you want to know what type of home medical care you need to give your dead rabbit when you pick it up. 

Press 35 if you would like an appointment to strip in the exam room to show the veterinarian (pick one): 
1) your skin rash/sores that you think are caused by your pet, 
2) your current surgery incisions to see whether they are healing 
properly and whether or not the veterinarian thinks that the human surgeon did the surgery properly, 
3) your old surgery/battle scars so you can boast what a tough
person you are and why your pet doesn't need pain meds for its
pending surgical procedure, 
4) your skin lumps to see if the veterinarian thinks they need to be removed, and whether or not the veterinarian would be willing to remove them instead of going to your human doctor. 

Press 36 if your unspayed 10-year old dog has been in labor for over 2 days (when you suddenly realized she was pregnant), and you now suspect something's wrong. 

Press 37 if your "rockwilder got the mange". 

Press 38 if your 200lb Newfie has ingested 5 Hershey's kisses and you're worried he will die. 

Press 39 if you've already given your kitten Tylenol and want to know if it was the right thing to do. 

Press 40 if your dog was neutered 6 weeks ago and you are angry because the testicles were removed. 

Press 41 if your dog got into your stash of pot but you don't want to admit it for fear of what we'll "think" of you. 

Press 42 if you want your dog to be spayed but want the doctor to come to the house and crawl under the porch to do it because she will not come out. 

Press 43 if "Cost isn't a concern!" because you don't intend on paying.

Press 45 if you're interested in having your cat "spaded".


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Ok people. I work in a vet, too. And I fully understand how irritating some clients are, and that we don't have time to coddle every patient and client.
But some of you are taking this WAY too personally. 

For example, who says it's paranoia or drama that the owner doesn't want you to take their dog from the room? We do as much in the rooms as we can (unless the pet begins acting out or it's a pet we KNOW doesn't behave well) because we don't know if their reasoning is like mine or because they're clingy. I don't allow others to restrain Koda because she reacts aggressively. We're working on it, but until I can trust HER, I will NOT be allowing others to restrain her. I also do not allow others to remove her from my presence because while she's with me she is perfect. The one time she was removed, they only took one step towards her before she began snarling and trying to attack them. I know nothing bad will/would happen to her. I happily allow others to handle Shoba. She takes it well. Koda, on the other hand, simply does not. 

We have a vet down the street who has neutered/spayed dogs who were marked as DO NOT SPAY/NEUTER by their owners on the surgical sheets, and the dogs were altered anyways. So yes, it does in fact happen. Because the office is so important for local jobs (it's very large), they have yet to be shut down for their offenses. 

Try to stop looking at all of this as an attack on yourselves and the proffession. Either ignore it, or take the things that make some sense into consideration. I had a conversation with my boss today about how one of the techs who has been doing a lot of my training chases clients out. She doesn't even look at or speak to them before she grabs their dogs in a bear hold and tries to force them on their side. I didn't think much about it (as far as in the clients' eyes) until I saw this thread. Mostly the comments have been very positive, with most complaints being about things that actively injured their dogs (or changed them). 
Mine don't have anything to do with physical issues, merely the view of my coworkers on feeding and spaying/neutering.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think this all boils down to relationships. People who are at the vet more often get the "opportunity" to develop deeper relationships with everyone at the vet office - from door to door. People who are good at developing relationships with people in general are going to have an easier time even still, and the reciprocal is true for those who work in the office. So I understand that people who have 1 pet and are there 1x a year may not have that many exposures. 

And I understand that not all vets or techs are the same. And I would shop around as needed. However, if I found that I could not find anyone, and repeatedly had the same problems, I would think hmmmm....

However, how do they know your knowledge level? They deal daily with people who don't know medical terminology, don't have the ability to follow what they are saying, and how do they know that you are not that person if they don't know you? Even more if you are surly or difficult with them. It is hard to assess a person's baseline knowledge in any area, more so with medicine, more so when they are behaving as if they know more than you off the bat. And even more so again in emergency situations. 

So I put a lot of the responsibility on me - what can I do to help my animal receive the very best care? Because I don't care about me or my feelings, I want what is best for them. That may mean when I am in an appointment with one of the world's best vet dermatologists (lucky for me location wise, and probably the same price as many on the coasts spend for a general vet yearly visit!) and he mentions Eukanuba sensitive skin as a possible part of the treatment protocol, I nod and ask more questions about what else might work, what else does he recommend, and we have a conversation, I was helping my dog. If I had shut down, gotten an attitude, and not reminded myself that this, for many dogs he sees, would have been a major step up in their food, and puffed up and gotten all offended, he might not have done a free biopsy for me, which would not have helped my dog. But I would have won, because I told him!! 

So with these relationships, I look to work with them as a team, and they seem happy to have the opportunity to work with their clients, as I see it often while I am there.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> :beer:
> 
> Good riddance I say!
> 
> ...


Maybe you would be *helping* your profession but sharing some good stories about vets and vet techs? Just a thought...


PS. I've never *had* an animal removed for blood work, two clinics and multiple vet and techs and not one even asked. They brought the supplies in and did it quickly and quietly, no fuss no muss. Vet, tech, owner, and animal all happy and the job got done


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Blood draw can be done in the room in my presence. I've seen it done several times. I will allow the tech to restrain my dogs as long as they don't think I'm going to happily stand by and allow them to manhandle my dog when it's unnecessary. 

Zena chose her vet. It's the only vet she hasn't tried to eat. They love her and she loves them. The first vet I took her to, she behaved worse when they took her in the back. Next vet they kept her in the room but the tech body slammed her on the floor when it wasn't needed. She was just fine until that point. 

Shasta is great at the vets. She'll lay there and wait for whatever they want to do. She'll even lay there and let them draw blood while she's watching. She's an angel. Now if they tried to take her out of the room, she might fight some. She'll not get aggressive about it, but she wont make it easy. 

Dax.... well as much as he likes the vet, I don't think he'll be very nice in the future about getting his temp taken. Otherwise, he's a good boy. 

I have a say in how I'm treated by someone getting my business and I definitely have a say in how my animals are handled at that business. If you treat my animals like you treat the aggressive animals, we're going to have a problem. I work very hard to make sure my dogs are as comfortable with the vets office as they're going to be and behave themselves. 

If removing an animal from their owner helps improve one dogs behavior, that's fine. My animals actually behave worse when they're removed from me. and after stupidly letting them take Riley out of the room for something they could have easily done in the room in my presence, yeah, I'm not the easiest to work with. Riley was an angel at the vets prior to that experience. I don't know what exactly they did to him but whatever it was, he was never the same. He no longer accepted the vet and would get aggressive even after changing vets. 

If you are one of the vets/techs that is a bad egg, you can rightfully be snappy about. However, if you respect my wishes as an owner and don't treat me like a fool, and you're one of the good eggs, we'll get along.


Should also add that when it was time to let Riley go, they LISTENED to me about my dogs personality. He would have been impossible had they wanted to take him in the back. They allowed me to restrain him. Everything they were able to do that they needed to do was because I, someone he trusted, was restraining him.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> So with these relationships, I look to work with them as a team, and they seem happy to have the opportunity to work with their clients, as I see it often while I am there.


Absolutely!! I talk and the vet listens, the vet talks and I listen. We discuss opinions and their pros and cons. I really love my vet!

When Delgado was in for his wellness visit during the exam the vet started talking politely about heartworm and tick preventatives. I politely listened and didn't interrupt, I waited until he was done and then the vet politely listened (see the reoccurring theme here?) as I explained I was going completely natural with preventatives and doing the SNAP test once a year to ensure everything was ok. His face lit up and he was thrilled and *he* was the one who brought up tithers so we spent time talking about vaccines and how both vet and client should look at limiting them as much as possible and holistic practices, etc

The entire visit was happy from the moment I walked in and spoke to the receptionist to the moment I walked out after paying my bill. I didn't feel talked down to, my questions were answered, my dog had a good checkup and was happy that he got to lick the vets ear while getting blood drawn, and my vet and I are on the same page! Should I have bought a lottery ticket that day? Nah, that's how this clinic rolls and I couldn't be happier. I don't have to wonder why they have such a good reputation in the community now do I  

Are emergency situations treated differently at this clinic? Let's see...

My mother showed up to let my sister's yorkie out for a potty break. She found him writhing on the ground screaming with a large lump on his belly, she panicked and picked him up and rushed him to the vet clinic. She called as she was on route to let them know she was on her way, though it was unexpected and there was less then a 20 minute gap between her walking into the front door and through the door of the vet clinic they were ready. He was seen right away and it turned out that his hernia which they knew he had had let go.

The vet was concerned about what had come through the hole so he was prepped for surgery. $1200 later he was in recovery and thankfully it was only healthy fat that had come through and nothing was damaged. My sister didn't have enough money at the time and my mom was ready to pay when the clinic told her they would do a payment plan for my sister no problem as they knew our family. They allowed her to put down a payment and set up a monthly schedule. After coming out of recovery he was brought out to them all wrapped in a large blanket, my mom took off her sweater to wrap him in as they didn't have a blanket. The tech shook her head at my mom and smiled, "you can borrow the blanket, return it when you're back in the area." Nemo recovered quickly and hasn't had a relapse, the whole thing was handled beautifully and my family was grateful for the professionalism and kindness the clinic showed that day. You really see true colours when under stress


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> Vet techs shouldn't make jokes like that; it is not ethical.
> Would be nice to hear responses on this topic from the vet techs on this forum.


I was a vet tech for several years before I became a groomer.

Granted, it's been many years since I've worked in a veterinary setting, but I deal with pet owners every day of the week, so I know what is normal and what is a little over-the-top paranoia. If I smell a neurotic client, I avoid them like the plague and I generally refer them elsewhere, because I don't have the time, energy, temperament, or training to deal with human neuroses (give me a neurotic/paranoid *pet* any day of the week). If you don't trust me, don't bring your pet to me. Simple as that. Unfortunately, most vets don't have the luxury of turning away problematic clients.

I am sure the vet tech that made the joke had no idea you would actually take her seriously, and I'm sure she deeply regrets having said it, as does everyone else that works there.  I am absolutely certain that she will never make a light-hearted comment again.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Just re-reading some of the posts here, it reminds me how lucky I am to have the clientele that I do. They trust me, they don't act like I'm out to get them, they are gracious and appreciative. Granted, I get the luxury of turning away clients I think are going to cause a problem... and still, I get a few that are a bit on the neurotic side, but at the end of the day, they trust me and that feels good. I think I would die if I had to work at a veterinary clinic whose clients were made up of people with unrealistic expectations, bad attitudes, and paranoid fantasies.

Working with animals isn't easy--as you realize, they can't speak English, so you really have to learn their language. But for me, that was the easy part. The hard part is dealing with humans who have already decided they don't like or trust you before you even see them. Pets pick up on their owner's feelings, you know. It makes it even more difficult if the pet is a bit timid or fearful to begin with. All we as pet professionals want to do is HELP animals, why in the world would we ever get into this career if we didn't?? It doesn't pay that well; for the 8 years and 6 figures vets pay to get their license, they could have gone to human medical school, law school, or a host of other careers that pay a LOT more. All we ask is that you recognize and appreciate that fact, and give us the benefit of the doubt.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't have a problem with them taking my dogs back for anything involving needles. Can't stand watching anything/anyone get poked. I watched my uncle (dairy farmer) stab a cow in the neck with what looked like a football/soccer ball needle. My youngest had a sharp piece of brick get stuck in her foot, of course there was a needle involved in cleaning out the "bits", freaked me out as bad as her.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

We do everything in the room except certain bloodraws. If we are taking from the jugular, we usually remove the animal from the room. Because a minority of client FREAK out if I have to redirect the needle. That said, if they ask why I am taking their pet, I explain. If they say they want to see it, I do it in the room. No biggie. 

You want good vet tech stories. I have a colleague who comes in on her day off to be there when he favorite pets are PTS. My boss invited multiple good clients to her wedding. I got a congratulations letter from my favorite client when I got my new puppy. Another favorite client brought me in a four leaf clover. Our staff took off to go to the funeral if a beloved client. We have been voted " best of " 8 years in a row. We go and pick up pets if the owner can't get in. Crazy PitBull or Rottweiler, I have techs that WILL spend 30 minutes making friends so we can work on them. Going on on a Sunday to help PTS a good clients dog because they don't want strangers to do it. Being requested to be part of a PTS, because they know I love their pet. I could go on for pages. 

You want me to go out if my way for you? Treat me as a human, with respect. Help me help you. Trust me, listen to me. And I will spend my day off helping you. That's what I love, the relationship. Being a part of your life and dogs health. Being on top of problems and behavior issues, and helping you correct them before they turn into a huge issue. But you have to give me a chance. Keep you mind open to my suggestions and I will listen to yours and we can be a TEAM. That's my goal. 

I do take this thread personally. Because we are the Pit Bulls. People vilify us, all the time. Money hungry, abusive, ignorant, pushy people that are out to make you do bad things for your animal. And I have turned my passion into a career. And I love it. I WANT the best for your animal. I really really do. 


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

gsdsar said:


> We do everything in the room except certain bloodraws. If we are taking from the jugular, we usually remove the animal from the room. Because a minority of client FREAK out if I have to redirect the needle. That said, if they ask why I am taking their pet, I explain. If they say they want to see it, I do it in the room. No biggie.
> 
> You want good vet tech stories. I have a colleague who comes in on her day off to be there when he favorite pets are PTS. My boss invited multiple good clients to her wedding. I got a congratulations letter from my favorite client when I got my new puppy. Another favorite client brought me in a four leaf clover. Our staff took off to go to the funeral if a beloved client. We have been voted " best of " 8 years in a row. We go and pick up pets if the owner can't get in. Crazy PitBull or Rottweiler, I have techs that WILL spend 30 minutes making friends so we can work on them. Going on on a Sunday to help PTS a good clients dog because they don't want strangers to do it. Being requested to be part of a PTS, because they know I love their pet. I could go on for pages.
> 
> ...


 
see THIS is how it should be. Mutual respect between one another. It's a team effort between the owner and the vet staff. The common goal is the welfare of the animals involved right? Mutual respect.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> Would be nice to hear responses on this topic from the vet techs on this forum.


Well....many people who have responded to this thread are the type of people we vet techs sit in the back room and argue over as to who draws the short straw and has to deal with them.

Oops....was that not ethical??


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Anubis_Star said:


> Utopia Vet Clinic
> 
> Press 01 to schedule an appointment for your pet.
> 
> ...



I hope some of these are just jokes.
But I'm guessing they are not, because I had a friend who was a vet tech, and the stories she had were mind-boggling.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> We do everything in the room except certain bloodraws. If we are taking from the jugular, we usually remove the animal from the room. Because a minority of client FREAK out if I have to redirect the needle. That said, if they ask why I am taking their pet, I explain. If they say they want to see it, I do it in the room. No biggie.





gsdsar said:


> You want good vet tech stories. I have a colleague who comes in on her day off to be there when he favorite pets are PTS. My boss invited multiple good clients to her wedding. I got a congratulations letter from my favorite client when I got my new puppy. Another favorite client brought me in a four leaf clover. Our staff took off to go to the funeral if a beloved client. We have been voted " best of " 8 years in a row. We go and pick up pets if the owner can't get in. Crazy PitBull or Rottweiler, I have techs that WILL spend 30 minutes making friends so we can work on them. Going on on a Sunday to help PTS a good clients dog because they don't want strangers to do it. Being requested to be part of a PTS, because they know I love their pet. I could go on for pages.
> 
> You want me to go out if my way for you? Treat me as a human, with respect. Help me help you. Trust me, listen to me. And I will spend my day off helping you. That's what I love, the relationship. Being a part of your life and dogs health. Being on top of problems and behavior issues, and helping you correct them before they turn into a huge issue. But you have to give me a chance. Keep you mind open to my suggestions and I will listen to yours and we can be a TEAM. That's my goal.
> 
> ...




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

That's great to hear  I'm glad the hard work is paying off and both staff and clients are reaping the benefits.

Like all jobs you take the good with the bad. We've gone from one extreme where dogs were just left to roam the street and never fed more than table scraps when available to now if you walk your dog with a prong collar you're a horrible owner who's abusing them.

Both owners and veterinary staff need to adapt again to work together, those who do are the ones that are successful. No, most owners now don't trust vet staff. Vet staff, don't trust most owners. Where's the happy median where the staff, owner, and animal are happy? Right in the middle where all parties are given respect.

We all have bad days and so do our animals. If my vet is more than 5 minutes late for my appointment I don't take it personally, I realize that he's spending time with another client who may need him more than I do at the moment. If I'm stressed because my animal is injured or sick you'll need to forgive me if I may be a little sharp so please take an extra two seconds out of your day unless my dog is literally bleeding to death and explain what's wrong and a quick synapsis of the procedure. If the tech is surly, I don't know if she just had to help with euthanizing a healthy animal in the other room because the owners didn't want it anymore as they just bought a new puppy, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt within reason. My animals who have never had one issue at the office may one day decide they don't like a certain tech, will I request that tech be removed if possible? Yes, for my animal's sake I probably will ask for a replacement. If not, I probably will request a muzzle or work with the vet on another solution to keep all parties safe

Our animals can't speak for themselves, and unfortunately yes *one* bad experience can change a dog's perspective on a vet. Do I want that to happen? Of course not and 99% of vets and techs wouldn't also. In the end, the owner is the voice of the animal so vets and techs need to listen to them. Owners should also respect the time and effort the vets and tech have placed on learning.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> I hope some of these are just jokes.
> But I'm guessing they are not, because I had a friend who was a vet tech, and the stories she had were mind-boggling.


No I swear I've dealt with almost everything on this list. 

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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

sparra said:


> Well....many people who have responded to this thread are the type of people we vet techs sit in the back room and argue over as to who draws the short straw and has to deal with them.


Yep!!



Anubis_Star said:


> No I swear I've dealt with almost everything on this list.


Yep... me too.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

You know I own a business and I have to deal with clients. People are sometimes annoying, they are sometimes stupid, they are sometimes flat out wrong. There are limits as to what I'll put up with but at the end of the day MOST of my clients are nice people who if treat with a little patience and respect respond in kind.

I don't like going into a vet office and being treated like a 5 year old especially when I personally have never done anything to deserve that kind of treatment.

Those of you in the industry need to remember that there are plenty of vets, plenty of competition and within a 15 mile radius we have a least three LOW cost vaccination clinics at feed stores, Tractor Supply and PetCo.

I spend a little more because of the fact that I expect better service and a better environment, more time with the vet and so on. If the customers don't get that why should they even bother? They may as well take their business elsewhere. At the end of a day this is about business and keeping customers happy not having an 'attitude' against all customers because one or two acted stupidly.

I go into my vet with the same easy going 'hi how you guys doing' attitude that I've had for going on 6 years with this practice. I've referred people to them. I've shrugged off some of these 20 something YO smart alecky attitudes of the techs, of people who just don't get that this is not just about the pets but it's about the humans who bring the pets in and pay the bills which in turn pay YOUR salary. It's also a people business!

What that means is you have to tote in a lot of patience with you to work every day the way I have to in my business. You have to understand the dog ain't gonna drive itself to your vet's business and that a little understanding often goes a long way. If you can't deal with the human factor then maybe YOU should look to find a job where you don't have to deal with people because I don't care if it's at the vets office or in corporate meeting room you're going to be stuck dealing with 'ugggh people'

Dealing with people is a pain in the rear, I deal with it every day myself and I prefer to have a complimentary and MUTUALLY respectful relationship with my vet because that's how I treat my clients, how I was raised you treat customers and because I deserve that as well.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Same here except the clinic that did the lap pexie/spay on Ilda.

I didn't like it but kept my mouth shut.

I actually get along with my vet/s (3 vets at the clinic) although they've had some problems with staff and a couple of people I referred stop going because of it.




Shade said:


> Maybe you would be *helping* your profession but sharing some good stories about vets and vet techs? Just a thought...
> 
> 
> PS. I've never *had* an animal removed for blood work, two clinics and multiple vet and techs and not one even asked. They brought the supplies in and did it quickly and quietly, no fuss no muss. Vet, tech, owner, and animal all happy and the job got done


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Thank you for posting this, well said.

In blue, that's an important thing to remember and I'm sure your vet, who is your employer, appreciated your professionalism! I sure do. This thread was actually making me feel worse about the vet offices then I had before I started reading it because of what seems to be an adversarial attitude  

As someone who has started a business and then hired people I can attest to the fact that employees often don't make the connection of when they don't act appropriately they can cause their employer to lose business and income.

Many people who start businesses do so by taking a great financial risk, the vets have many years of school to pay for and must cover the costs of overhead, building, electric, water, supplies, salaries regardless of much income they take in that day. The costs don't go down but the income certainly can.

So when some here say 'oh I just run those customers off because they are a pain' they are hurting their employer who has invested much time and money in starting his/her business, they have a lot on the line and part of making a business successful is dealing with 'those people'. 

My mother and father were also self employed business owners from when I was born to the day they retired and my mother always reminded us, "We tend to remember the nasty customers but always remind yourself that most of your customers are nice people who choose to patronize your business."

That is the simple truth and it requires resilience, patience and keeping a focus on the bigger picture to start and run a business and part of that is remembering that *most* people are good, mean well, aren't trying to be pains in the rear. They are making a choice to patronize YOUR vets BUSINESS and spend money.




GsdLoverr729 said:


> Ok people. I work in a vet, too. And I fully understand how irritating some clients are, and that we don't have time to coddle every patient and client.
> But some of you are taking this WAY too personally.
> 
> For example, who says it's paranoia or drama that the owner doesn't want you to take their dog from the room? We do as much in the rooms as we can (unless the pet begins acting out or it's a pet we KNOW doesn't behave well) because we don't know if their reasoning is like mine or because they're clingy. I don't allow others to restrain Koda because she reacts aggressively. We're working on it, but until I can trust HER, I will NOT be allowing others to restrain her. I also do not allow others to remove her from my presence because while she's with me she is perfect. The one time she was removed, they only took one step towards her before she began snarling and trying to attack them. I know nothing bad will/would happen to her. I happily allow others to handle Shoba. She takes it well. Koda, on the other hand, simply does not.
> ...


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I have noticed that employees of some types of businesses tend to forget that the customer is paying for service. In fact, they treat the customer as if they were doing them a huge favor.
It's usually if there is some sort of care involved, such as the medical field or the childcare/ school field.







Gwenhwyfair said:


> This thread was actually making me feel worse about the vet offices then I had before I started reading it because of what seems to be an adversarial attitude
> 
> 
> Many people who start businesses do so by taking a great financial risk, the vets have many years of school to pay for and must cover the costs of overhead, building, electric, water, supplies, salaries regardless of much income they take in that day. The costs don't go down but the income certainly can.
> ...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> So when some here say 'oh I just run those customers off because they are a pain' they are hurting their employer who has invested much time and money in starting his/her business, they have a lot on the line and part of making a business successful is dealing with 'those people'.


Often times you actually LOSE money on "those people", so running them off can sometimes be a good thing for the business. In fact, I am going to have to ask the vets in town to stop referring these type of clients to me. If the client is cheap, takes up way more time than you scheduled (remember folks, time is money), demanding, litigious, and has entitlement issues, you are better off saving that spot for someone who will actually pay their bill, take up a normal amount of time, and be tolerable to work with. Most businesses of this type have a finite amount of clients they can take on, although veterinary hospitals are often treated somewhat like emergency clinics, and are under pressure to take anyone who walks in the door. That's why I'm glad I don't work in veterinary medicine any more.



Sunflowers said:


> I have noticed that employees of some types of businesses tend to forget that the customer is paying for service. In fact, they treat the customer as if they were doing them a huge favor.
> It's usually if there is some sort of care involved, such as the medical field or the childcare/ school field.


Often the business *is* doing the client a big favor and the client simply doesn't realize it. I'm a groomer, not a vet, but for example I will sometimes open my doors early to accommodate clients, I will squeeze them in when I really don't have the time, I will stay late, work on Sunday, etc. I will bend over backward for clients, and when they act like they don't appreciate it, or they come to *expect* it, or start complaining if I have to raise prices, that's about the time I start getting cranky. But I *never* show it to the client. I never make a big deal out of doing these little favors, but maybe I should, just so the client understands that I'm going out of my way for them. You'd think that maybe they could just appreciate it a little, but gosh sometimes you give an inch and they take a mile. I know vets have this problem, too.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Often the business *is* doing the client a big favor and the client simply doesn't realize it. I'm a groomer, not a vet, but for example I will sometimes open my doors early to accommodate clients, I will squeeze them in when I really don't have the time, I will stay late, work on Sunday, etc. I will bend over backward for clients, and when they act like they don't appreciate it, or they come to *expect* it, or start complaining if I have to raise prices, that's about the time I start getting cranky. But I *never* show it to the client. I never make a big deal out of doing these little favors, but maybe I should, just so the client understands that I'm going out of my way for them. You'd think that maybe they could just appreciate it a little, but gosh sometimes you give an inch and they take a mile. I know vets have this problem, too.



I don't understand this.
You run the business for money.
You get paid in dollars, not appreciation.

If you work off hours and do not charge more, people will pay and not expect to have to thank you profusely, because they believe they have made a fair trade. They assume that you opened early or squeezed them in because you wanted the extra income.

There is no reason to bend over backwards for people if you do not feel you have been adequately compensated. Even a plumber will charge extra for weekend or evening hours.

As for people who complain if you raise prices, I think they should either pay or find someone else.
I always say that there are certain customers who seriously need firin'  
Actually encountered customers like these. More trouble than they are worth.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> I don't understand this.
> You run the business for money.
> You get paid in dollars, not appreciation.


Wow.

That's not how I feel when I pay people to take care of my pets (or people, or equipment, or whatever). When I find someone good, who really cares and goes out of their way for me, I *appreciate* it. I'm sorry you don't, because if you've ever had to deal with someone who doesn't care, you will understand why the good ones deserve to be appreciated.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I was speaking as a business owner, Freestep.
And as a business owner, I daresay I have more appreciation than the average customer for the goods and services I receive.

I have long ago learned that I have to take emotion out of it, otherwise I would be a very bitter business owner. Most of the time, customers are not appreciative, because they feel they have compensated me. There are also those who, no matter how good the service, or product they receive, are always sorry to see their money go.
Not to mention the ones who can't wait to sue, thinking that a company is some kind of Moneytree entity and forgetting that there are actual humans that make up the business.

What I was trying to tell you is that truly appreciative customers are what makes the job worthwhile. At least, that's how it is for me. All others pay cash


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Wow.
> 
> *That's not how I feel when I pay people to take care of my pets (or people, or equipment, or whatever).* *When I find someone good, who really cares and goes out of their way for me, I *appreciate* it.* I'm sorry you don't, because if you've ever had to deal with someone who doesn't care, you will understand why the good ones deserve to be appreciated.


Yes, I agree with Freestep on this point. I appreciate - and am far more loyal to - businesses that do not have a purely transactional mindset. If I felt that the only thing a service-oriented business cared about when they saw me was the $$$, I would take my business elsewhere. 

I am also far more likely to refer others to businesses that go out of their way to help their clients.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> What I was trying to tell you is that truly appreciative customers are what makes the job worthwhile. At least, that's how it is for me. All others pay cash


I see what you are saying now... that we can't *expect* much out of clients, or we will be chronically disappointed.

I certainly don't expect my clients to gush (in fact, I get a little embarrassed when they do). A simple "thank you" will suffice, along with reasonable expectations, a pleasant attitude, and a measure of understanding. Certainly not all my clients have that, but the ones that do are the ones that I bend over backward for.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Freestep said:


> Wow, some of you guys are REALLY nit-picky. If I ever worked at a vet clinic again, I would cringe when I saw you coming. My personal pet peeve was when clients would come in with their pets and insist they know more than the vet does, have a problem with everything the staff does, and act like they want to run the dang place. Where's YOUR veterinary license, I wanted to ask some people.
> 
> Maybe I'm just lucky to have worked with great people, but my experience with veterinarians and their staff has been excellent--maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never seen anyone mistreat, mishandle, or "talk down" to clients. I've worked with many veterinarians in my day, and while some of them could be gruff and snarky with their own staff, I've never seen any of them talk to clients that way. The only time I ever saw a vet get into an argument with a client was when that client insisted that we "gave" his dog Parvo by giving her a Parvo vaccine (the dog had lost weight but had no Parvo symptoms). He explained over and over again that it wasn't possible, and the client just kept saying "I know that shot gave her Parvo!" Bear in mind this guy was an old alcoholic that lived in a cabin up in the woods, and wasn't quite right in the head, and the vet shouldn't have engaged in a battle of wits with the unarmed... but the guy WAS really annoying and getting on everyone's nerves.
> 
> ...


I don't see how it is nit picky? Is it really that hard to be respectful of someones space? or ask before something is done? Or just act professional? With the amount everyone pays at the vet and the amount of vets out there I think people should be allowed to be nit picky a bit. I have only ever run into one or 2 bad vets in my life. The vet techs seem much worse though. But then some are so amazing and great to talk with. Well MOSt are great.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Charlie W said:


> My veterinary practice has a locum and I always cringe when she's there, she talks to the dogs in a silly baby voice which is annoying..The infuriating thing she does though is talks to the owners in the same voice! It's as if she treats us like complete idiots, next time I know she's working I'll ask not to be seen by her.. She also gave me a wrong diagnosis, but that's another story...



oh god i can't stand that, but its not vets that do it only its just people in general


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Syaoransbear said:


> My dog has been diagnosed with every critical disease german shepherds get based on absolutely no symptoms, just the fact that he's a german shepherd. Of course he didn't have ANY of them, my vet was just a quack. She eventually conceded that he was the healthiest german shepherd she's ever treated. Now I go to a new vet who doesn't make up diagnoses to chisel me out of money.



Yes i took a cat to one vet for shots and they diagnosed this cat with so many things and wanted 1400 i took the same cat to another vet they could not see anything wrong with the cat by looking at it? The first vet did not do any tests either. I took the cat to a third vet and the same thing lol they could not find anything wrong with it?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> I see what you are saying now... that we can't *expect* much out of clients, or we will be chronically disappointed.
> .


Bingo.
I remember years ago receiving a cookie that said, "Expect nothing and you will never be disappointed." 
I try to remember that when I get really bummed when people take me for granted.
Yeah, what I was saying was, if you do extra, you should get extra cash. Especially from clients who don't realize (or care) that you went out of their way for them, or take it for granted.
I have noticed I get better service in Florida, people care more about what they're doing, and I never fail to point it out to people. It's wonderful to see their face light up when they realize you actually appreciate what they're doing.

I have been meaning to say that I have been looking for a good groomer, and haven't found one. The ones that are good, seem to be booked for months and months. There is one that is a master groomer and people rave about her, but she is an hour drive from home. One actually only grooms dogs under 30 pounds. Chicken! LOL

If I am ever in California with Hans, I will look you up. 
I would give anything to find a groomer with German Shepherd experience.

To stay on topic, I want to say that I have seen the best and the worst in the veterinary profession.
Also, I think a lot of the problems that vets and techs have with customers are because many of them are clueless about dog care, health, and behavior. They treat them like babies with fur, and haven't the slightest clue about what to do with them. Then, they take it out on the techs or the vet.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

As a business owner you are free to chose to take that risk of getting rid of customers, employees (which most vet techs are) should not be picking and choosing which clients they feel should be 'run off'. 

If I had an employee do that to my clients (be smart alecky, demeaning, or have this we're better off without 'em attitude) their behinds would be out the door so dang fast they'd have road burn. I work too darn hard hunting for new business, pay too much for marketing, have sacrificed too much to have someone who has no clue what's involved in getting a business up and running tell me which customers are worth it or not. 

I have many times groaned at some clients (in private) thinking they were going to be more trouble then they are worth and they ended up being great clients! Trust is EARNED. People that I thought would be neurotic ended up being really appreciative because I validated their concerns, I did NOT demean them. Once they saw I was on the same page as them they were fine. I even tell them I don't take it personally if they feel worried, that I understand because I love my dogs too. 

Seems like too many people want to be molly coddled themselves when it comes to their needs, their pets but they feel it's O.K. to tell other people to 'toughen up' and don't be so touchy and what not when the shoe is on the other foot.

I'm in the pet care industry too so I can speak from a lot of experience on this as well. I get what you're saying about clients not appreciating and am dealing with one like that right now. That's part of running a business and at least in my experience those people are in the minority which was the point I was making earlier.


Again, trust is earned and usually patience pays $$$ off.

btw - this is one of the reasons some businesses fail, not because of all the stuff you hear on TV and politics and what not, simply because some people just don't get it, they don't know how to deal with customers. 





Freestep said:


> Often times you actually LOSE money on "those people", so running them off can sometimes be a good thing for the business. In fact, I am going to have to ask the vets in town to stop referring these type of clients to me. If the client is cheap, takes up way more time than you scheduled (remember folks, time is money), demanding, litigious, and has entitlement issues, you are better off saving that spot for someone who will actually pay their bill, take up a normal amount of time, and be tolerable to work with. Most businesses of this type have a finite amount of clients they can take on, although veterinary hospitals are often treated somewhat like emergency clinics, and are under pressure to take anyone who walks in the door. That's why I'm glad I don't work in veterinary medicine any more.
> 
> 
> 
> Often the business *is* doing the client a big favor and the client simply doesn't realize it. I'm a groomer, not a vet, but for example I will sometimes open my doors early to accommodate clients, I will squeeze them in when I really don't have the time, I will stay late, work on Sunday, etc. I will bend over backward for clients, and when they act like they don't appreciate it, or they come to *expect* it, or start complaining if I have to raise prices, that's about the time I start getting cranky. But I *never* show it to the client. I never make a big deal out of doing these little favors, but maybe I should, just so the client understands that I'm going out of my way for them. You'd think that maybe they could just appreciate it a little, but gosh sometimes you give an inch and they take a mile. I know vets have this problem, too.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Which would include vets with friendly staff.....



LifeofRiley said:


> Yes, I agree with Freestep on this point. I appreciate - and am far more loyal to - businesses that do not have a purely transactional mindset. If I felt that the only thing a service-oriented business cared about when they saw me was the $$$, I would take my business elsewhere.
> 
> I am also far more likely to refer others to businesses that go out of their way to help their clients.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Good posts on this topic and I agree with you.

Maybe because I come from a corporate background where most people who work day to day aren't appreciated, because they get paid and that's usually all you get especially now-a-days....one of the nicest things was getting appreciative remarks from my customers when I started my own business.

I have a beautiful Thank You card sitting on my desk right now and many more in my portfolio.

Some of my clients show appreciation by patronizing my business and paying me in a timely manner and some go the extra step by writing notes and sending cards or referring new business, all of these things show appreciation in my mind. 

I like being appreciated, it's a very nice, but at the end of the day I appreciate being able to pay my bills and make a living!




Sunflowers said:


> I was speaking as a business owner, Freestep.
> And as a business owner, I daresay I have more appreciation than the average customer for the goods and services I receive.
> 
> I have long ago learned that I have to take emotion out of it, otherwise I would be a very bitter business owner. Most of the time, customers are not appreciative, because they feel they have compensated me. There are also those who, no matter how good the service, or product they receive, are always sorry to see their money go.
> ...


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Which would include vets with friendly staff.....


Absolutely


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> You don't LET THEM TOUCH/RESTRAIN????? Wth?? You realize the liability involved #1 and #2 the fact that my techs not only know how to restrain so I don't get hurt but how I prefer certain things so that I can do my job the best. I don't have time to deal with a know it all owner who thinks they have to hold their animals for X-rays, for example, when they don't know how! No wonder you have switched vets "numerous times." I can't help but think they weren't that sad to see you go.


I realize the liability, and it's usually low. If vets have an issue with the liability and don't trust me/my dogs, that's fine, I just go to another vet that will. My dogs haven't hurt any vet yet so I must be doing something right.

You can think that I'm a know it all owner all you like and can assume whatever you'd like about the vets I've seen. Most of them were quite happy to see me until they did something I had a problem with. 

btw- I HAVE set my dog up for x rays and left him without allowing any other techs to restrain him, awake, for hip xrays. Worked well. 



Jax08 said:


> DJEtzel - what do you mean you don't let them touch or restrain? Ever?
> 
> But how can they do their jobs if they can never touch or restrain them in any way?


When I said touch, I think that came across wrong. They're allowed to pet Recon and Sir and love on them. They can be near them and touch them gentley while I'm restraining them/feeding them while they're keeping their position if they want. I don't let them restrain them though and techs don't even approach when Frag is being vetted as a crowd just makes matters worse for him. They don't really have a job to do with my dogs, thankfully. For something crazy that requires it, sure, Sir and Recon could be restrained with a lot of treats which my vet uses which I love, but not for ordinary/typical visits. Recon was mildly restrained and fed during his xrays and had no problems. I don't have a problem with fosters being restrained or done whatever with assuming their temperaments are fine, but my dogs aren't comfortable with strangers putting them in a headlock and I'm not comfortable with the liability of training them to be ok with it, either. It's easier on me, them, and the vet/techs to just let me put them in a sit/down stay and feed them under the supervision of a tech. 




Jax08 said:


> My suggestion to all those that are adamantly against a vet or tech restraining their dog is to ask how to do it properly. If you can't do it properly, don't have the strength or just refuse to, then you need to step aside.


I have been trained in proper restraint while working with vets through work numerous times and I am very confident and good at restraining dogs for blood draws, vaccines, IVs, skin scrapes, nail trims, etc. Mine just don't need it so I don't do it and ask that it isn't done. When/if they ever need it we'll cross that bridge, but Sir maintained a sit stay during an eye flush/screen for corneal abrasions (I think that's what it was..?) and Frag maintained a stay on his back for x rays so we don't need it for anything yet. And I appreciate having a vet that realizes that and respects it.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I realize the liability, and it's usually low. If vets have an issue with the liability and don't trust me/my dogs, that's fine, I just go to another vet that will. My dogs haven't hurt any vet yet so I must be doing something right.
> 
> You can think that I'm a know it all owner all you like and can assume whatever you'd like about the vets I've seen. Most of them were quite happy to see me until they did something I had a problem with.
> 
> ...


LOL there are so many problems with your rebuttal where do I start? 
Do you think hip X-rays are the only X-rays you will ever need? You realize there are lots of different kinds and no way in heck would I ever take time away from other patients to teach a high maintenance owner how to do different positioning, not to mention its ILLEGAL. Your dog wasn't even super painful, hurting, when you did that, you think all well trained dogs just lay there when their pelvis is fractured into 10 pieces and we have to put them in very painful positions to get the shot? 
And what are you going to do when your dog is so sick or hurting or whatever they won't eat treats? What if you have to hospitalize them? Then what? It's all well and good if your dog is great for you to restrain but what happens when they need to stay in the hospital and someone else HAS to do? Are they going to freak out because they have never experienced that? Probably so. 
Just because your vets didn't act like you were a pain to your face MEANS NOTHING. I have had to see a client who called back after a previous appointment to complain about how she didn't like me and said some not so nice things about me because she wanted to euthanize her otherwise perfectly healthy dog because it had fleas and I essentially told her that was dumb and all she had to do was keep up with the flea prevention and treat the house. I was the only vet open in a probably 75+ mile radius and her cat was sick. How do you think I acted when she came in? Not like I hated her guts which is what I was thinking. We have clients who insist on holding their own animals and its usually a pain in my butt. 
There are way too many "what ifs" for it to be ok for owners to never allow us to restrain their animals. Life happens, accidents happen.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

I was going to a "holistic" vet, but they didnt like grocery store raw and had no advice othere than buy some dehydrated or chubs. Then they made me sign a paper after the 2nd puppy visit saying that if my puppy bit them Id pay for their rabies treatment and have my dog quarantined or tested. The first thing they do upon meeting the dog is get in its face and ask for kisses and then they make me sign that form making me liable, I didnt go back.


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

I have no complaints with my two current vets (e-vet and a low cost clinic for vaccs and general things). But my old vet was very anti-raw(tried to tell me I couldn't feed bones because dogs can't digest them.. -_-???) and they were also insistent that my dogs were underweight and not being properly cared for because you could feel their ribs. According to them you should *never* be able to feel their ribs. Needless to say we switched and the new vets have been wonderful.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

To me, the bottom line on this thread is that if you don't feel comfortable letting the professionals at your veterinarian's office handle your pets, then you should find another vet.

I trust my vet and their staff to handle my dog because they have never given me a reason not to trust them. If they did, I would go elsewhere.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I was at the vet today. After reading this thread that has become more and more horrifying on what vet techs thought of us PIA clients that don't want our dogs taken from the room for simple things like blood draw, would prefer to restrain our own dogs, etc, I just had to ask if she thought I was one of "those" people. 

What a relief to hear the only thing that was hard with me was to figure out my vaccine protocol. lol She said 99% of their clientele just go with what the vet recommends and I want specific things like titers and the Nobivac Lyme vaccine instead of the Fort Dodge. I told her to look up Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz and she'd know where I was coming from.

****...I'd happily sign a paper releasing them of liability if I got bit while restraining my dog by my own choice. I insist on holding an animal with bigger teeth than me while you do something scary and painful..and I get bit..well my bad. I don't insist on restraining all my animals all the time. If it's a simple blood draw or vaccine, fine. I go in for the laser therapy because I know she'll lay down for me. I hold her for the simple things because I know she trusts me and will hold still for them because of it. If it's something serious, by all means restrain her and knock her out. Xray? Here's the leash, do your thing. Make sure you get good ones so I'm not wasting my money.

I was relieved to hear that she doesn't think of me what you people think of your clients. And I'm pretty sure she would have called it like she sees it. Might have been tactful about it but I would have gotten the idea.

My vet was wonderful as always and explained that even though there are different strains of Lyme just found and and not in the vaccine there should be some cross reactivity. We spent quite a bit of time talking about my senior Boxer, Banshee, and how she was doing. Discussed tick repellent products. Gave me a copy of the snap4 to take to a different vet who does have the Nobivac vaccine.

I have awesome vets...yes I do. And since I've been in there 2-3x a week for the last month...I should probably bring them cookies on my next appt.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I was at the vet today. After reading this thread that has become more and more horrifying on what vet techs thought of us PIA clients that don't want our dogs taken from the room for simple things like blood draw, would prefer to restrain our own dogs, etc, I just had to ask if she thought I was one of "those" people.
> 
> What a relief to hear the only thing that was hard with me was to figure out my vaccine protocol. lol She said 99% of their clientele just go with what the vet recommends and I want specific things like titers and the Nobivac Lyme vaccine instead of the Fort Dodge. I told her to look up Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz and she'd know where I was coming from.
> 
> ...


LOL People like you are not the problem in my eyes. Lots of clients do what you're describing, the problem is when they REFUSE to let us restrain and want to do things like be there to help hold for X-rays, or pet their heads while we are doing them, etc. At our tiny satellite clinic in a very rural town with no other vets for at least 1 hour drive I do not even have a tech. My receptionist helps if needed and for difficult things but I come right out and tell some people "look if you want to get out of here in a timely manner you will have to restrain your own pet." My stress level is always high because I just know I'm going to get bitten at some point and/or someone is going to sue us because they were bitten. You would never believe it but elderly women make the best holders, men of all ages are the WORST lol :laugh: I have never had anyone ask about titers but if someone doesn't want certain vaccines anymore I just put an alert on their account stating this so they don't get asked every single time. As long as its not the rabies vaccine I really don't care what someone's protocol is. I don't vaccinate my own dogs anymore.

And I never remove pets from the room for ANYTHING that can be done in the room. Unless an owner requests it, and some do. I haven't had anyone complain that I didn't get blood the first needle stick on their tiny thrashing Yorkie for example, but I've also drawn blood so many times that I can literally do it upside down (which I've done before).


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> LOL there are so many problems with your rebuttal where do I start?
> Do you think hip X-rays are the only X-rays you will ever need? You realize there are lots of different kinds and no way in heck would I ever take time away from other patients to teach a high maintenance owner how to do different positioning, not to mention its ILLEGAL. Your dog wasn't even super painful, hurting, when you did that, you think all well trained dogs just lay there when their pelvis is fractured into 10 pieces and we have to put them in very painful positions to get the shot?
> And what are you going to do when your dog is so sick or hurting or whatever they won't eat treats? What if you have to hospitalize them? Then what? It's all well and good if your dog is great for you to restrain but what happens when they need to stay in the hospital and someone else HAS to do? Are they going to freak out because they have never experienced that? Probably so.
> Just because your vets didn't act like you were a pain to your face MEANS NOTHING. I have had to see a client who called back after a previous appointment to complain about how she didn't like me and said some not so nice things about me because she wanted to euthanize her otherwise perfectly healthy dog because it had fleas and I essentially told her that was dumb and all she had to do was keep up with the flea prevention and treat the house. I was the only vet open in a probably 75+ mile radius and her cat was sick. How do you think I acted when she came in? Not like I hated her guts which is what I was thinking. We have clients who insist on holding their own animals and its usually a pain in my butt.
> There are way too many "what ifs" for it to be ok for owners to never allow us to restrain their animals. Life happens, accidents happen.


You're assuming a lot here. Again, I said that for everything we go in regularly for, they are not restrained. They don't need to be and my current vet has no issue with it whatsoever and appreciates that they behave so well that they don't need it. They both WERE in pain during their x rays, and Frag has been in pain for the majority of his visits which is WHY the techs don't restrain them. Because they're more likely to get someone harmed that way. Frag had numerous skin scrapes taken from his face without restraint which I don't imagine felt too good, either.

If there was an emergency, I have permission from my vet to restrain my dogs for sedation (and that's what I did when Frag got neutered) and then they will be fine. Recon and Frag would both be extremely traumatized if they were physically restrained by strangers without being sedated, without my presence. Recon would likely be OK in my presence, but why chance messing him up the way Frag was when he'll just sit there for a blood draw? None of them NEED treats to do any of this(minus Recon's X-rays at 7 months), but again, I like to make it as happy of an experience as possible. 

I've never been a hassle to my vet, I don't need anything special, and our visits go very smoothly. I just explained Frag's people issues before we ever met her and she was fine with what I wanted and welcomed us to the practice. I use the same methods with my other two because there's no reason not to and if I can prevent them from having the same issues that Frag has, then I will. If Frag were restrained during each visit, I am certain there is no way he would be safe around people out and about.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> You're assuming a lot here. Again, I said that for everything we go in regularly for, they are not restrained. They don't need to be and my current vet has no issue with it whatsoever and appreciates that they behave so well that they don't need it. They both WERE in pain during their x rays, and Frag has been in pain for the majority of his visits which is WHY the techs don't restrain them. Because they're more likely to get someone harmed that way. Frag had numerous skin scrapes taken from his face without restraint which I don't imagine felt too good, either.
> 
> If there was an emergency, I have permission from my vet to restrain my dogs for sedation (and that's what I did when Frag got neutered) and then they will be fine. Recon and Frag would both be extremely traumatized if they were physically restrained by strangers without being sedated, without my presence. Recon would likely be OK in my presence, but why chance messing him up the way Frag was when he'll just sit there for a blood draw? None of them NEED treats to do any of this(minus Recon's X-rays at 7 months), but again, I like to make it as happy of an experience as possible.
> 
> I've never been a hassle to my vet, I don't need anything special, and our visits go very smoothly. I just explained Frag's people issues before we ever met her and she was fine with what I wanted and welcomed us to the practice. I use the same methods with my other two because there's no reason not to and if I can prevent them from having the same issues that Frag has, then I will. If Frag were restrained during each visit, I am certain there is no way he would be safe around people out and about.


My only real assumption was what you confirmed to be true. 
Just had to hospitalize a wolf dog the other day which was a total nightmare because we were unable to restrain the dog safely to do the treatments and things we needed to do......dog was ok for owners to restrain, but whole lot of good that did when after hours the dog destroyed his IV line that he needed and the techs could not do treatments as needed. And no, we were not going to call the owners up and sit there and wait for them to come back, this was the gamble they took by never teaching a fearful dog to accept a muzzle and being touched by other people. 
I'm sure you are a good dog owner, but you won't get it until you do.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> My only real assumption was what you confirmed to be true.
> Just had to hospitalize a wolf dog the other day which was a total nightmare because we were unable to restrain the dog safely to do the treatments and things we needed to do......dog was ok for owners to restrain, but whole lot of good that did when after hours the dog destroyed his IV line that he needed and the techs could not do treatments as needed. And no, we were not going to call the owners up and sit there and wait for them to come back, this was the gamble they took by never teaching a fearful dog to accept a muzzle and being touched by other people.
> I'm sure you are a good dog owner, but you won't get it until you do.


You're still assuming. My dog isn't fearful. He's nervy. And he willingly accepts a muzzle from anyone, which I did teach him. And he can now be touched by strangers just fine with my close supervision OUT OF THE VET'S OFFICE, but he will absolutely start growing if a tech tried restraining him. That's never going to change, so we manage it. In a situation as you described, you'd have no problem muzzling my dog, but you would surely set back his behavior modification if you had to restrain him without me there without sedating him first. You'd probably have a hard time restraining him as well, because he will definitely put up a fight. Not sure why sedation isn't an option for you?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

80% of our clients do whatever the vet recommends. 

10% of our clients follow different protocols, either Dodds or some thing else. 

10% of our clients do whatever the heck they want with no rhyme or reason. 

EVERY client I come in to contact with gets my undivided attention, professionalism and respect. Just because I don't agree with how you raise, medicate, handle your dog, does not and will never give me the right to be unprofessional. This is a business. I get that. This is your pet. I get that. 

But the frustration sets in when I am asked for advice, then rebutted at every turn because a client has read something different in the Internet, or heard different from their breeder. I actually think its great that there is a wealth if information out there. It makes for better informed owners. Until it causes a conflict that does not help the animals. 

A good part of the time, our Vets are alone in the room with the client and patient. If the Vet does not feel safe, they call us in. Could be on the sweetest happiest lab that freaks at vaccination, could be on the fear aggressive dog that is going crazy. But my job is to keep the Dr safe. Sometimes that means taking a bite and drawing an aggressive/scared/mouthy animal INTO me instead of letting go(which is most owners first instinct when they feel teeth). 

Yes, there are some owners who are not like that. And I bet most of you replying to this thread are among those. But I have to look at the odds. Odds are, your first instinct is to not get bitten, which means my Dr will. 

We have plenty of dogs that resist restraint. We have plenty of owners that want to help. I want the dog to feel safe, but I also need to do my job. 

But u guarantee you, no matter what I think of a client personally. Not a single walks out feeling as if I thought they were a burden. Or that they annoyed me. Because truthfully. It is all about the client. The client pays the bill. Will I be direct and honest. Yup. Will I be rude and disrespectful? Not if I want to keep my job. 


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> You're still assuming. My dog isn't fearful. He's nervy. And he willingly accepts a muzzle from anyone, which I did teach him. And he can now be touched by strangers just fine with my close supervision OUT OF THE VET'S OFFICE, but he will absolutely start growing if a tech tried restraining him. That's never going to change, so we manage it. In a situation as you described, you'd have no problem muzzling my dog, but you would surely set back his behavior modification if you had to restrain him without me there without sedating him first. You'd probably have a hard time restraining him as well, because he will definitely put up a fight. Not sure why sedation isn't an option for you?


Lol where do you think"nervy" comes from? It's from fear.....so yes if your dog is nervy then he's In some way fearful. Fearful of new places and or people and or other animals. 
You're "assuming" I wouldn't sedate an animal we couldn't handle which is ridiculous. Some animals are so horrible and large even that's not any option because I still have to get it into them somehow, number one. Number 2, you going to have your very sick animal sedated just because it might mess up your behavioral modification if not? Alright so you would rather risk their life than their training, ok. And you can't just leave an animal sedated their entire hospital stay. 
And I never once said you couldn't put a muzzle on your dog, I said the dog I just dealt with couldn't be.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ugavet2012 said:


> Lol where do you think"nervy" comes from? It's from fear.....so yes if your dog is nervy then he's In some way fearful. Fearful of new places and or people and or other animals.
> You're "assuming" I wouldn't sedate an animal we couldn't handle which is ridiculous. Some animals are so horrible and large even that's not any option because I still have to get it into them somehow, number one. Number 2, you going to have your very sick animal sedated just because it might mess up your behavioral modification if not? Alright so you would rather risk their life than their training, ok. And you can't just leave an animal sedated their entire hospital stay.
> And I never once said you couldn't put a muzzle on your dog, I said the dog I just dealt with couldn't be.


Nervy does not equal fear to me. It's a foggy term, but I have heard it best described as a dog having a low threshold to stimuli. He is not fearful whatsoever and wouldn't retreat if given the choice. He just has a low threshold for being handled and will react aggressively when pushed. 

You're the one who said that you couldn't do anything to the dog you had. You can understand why I would assume that you couldn't/wouldn't sedate it and yes, I would absolutely expect my dog to be midly sedated to be manageable/treated and comfortable at/with the vet without my presence so that he was not a danger to you or society when he came back like happened previously. If you're saying that vets won't/don't do this, well, it's another great reason for me dislike most vets and dread having to go. I would certainly do everything at home if I could. 

This thread is a great example of what vets think they know and like to assume about potential clients.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> Nervy does not equal fear to me. It's a foggy term, but I have heard it best described as a dog having a low threshold to stimuli. He is not fearful whatsoever and wouldn't retreat if given the choice. He just has a low threshold for being handled and will react aggressively when pushed.
> 
> You're the one who said that you couldn't do anything to the dog you had. You can understand why I would assume that you couldn't/wouldn't sedate it and yes, I would absolutely expect my dog to be midly sedated to be manageable/treated and comfortable at/with the vet without my presence so that he was not a danger to you or society when he came back like happened previously. If you're saying that vets won't/don't do this, well, it's another great reason for me dislike most vets and dread having to go. I would certainly do everything at home if I could.
> 
> This thread is a great example of what vets think they know and like to assume about potential clients.


Sedation carries risk! Most of it decreases blood pressure, heart rate, temperature. You're risking your dog's life for lack of I dont even know. It baffles my mind! No we will NOT sedate your animal unless absolutely necessary. And just to fit your training guidelines is NOT appropriate. I find your reasonings for wanting to drug a sick animal so appaling it's actually a little sickening. A prime example of someone with NO idea trying to act like they know what's best.

BTW your dog is fearful. And it's low threshold is very worrisome. Dealing with him has given you an extremely warped view on how the world should handle dogs

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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Nervy does not equal fear to me. It's a foggy term, but I have heard it best described as a dog having a low threshold to stimuli. He is not fearful whatsoever and wouldn't retreat if given the choice. He just has a low threshold for being handled and will react aggressively when pushed.
> 
> You're the one who said that you couldn't do anything to the dog you had. You can understand why I would assume that you couldn't/wouldn't sedate it and yes, I would absolutely expect my dog to be midly sedated to be manageable/treated and comfortable at/with the vet without my presence so that he was not a danger to you or society when he came back like happened previously. If you're saying that vets won't/don't do this, well, it's another great reason for me dislike most vets and dread having to go. I would certainly do everything at home if I could.
> 
> This thread is a great example of what vets think they know and like to assume about potential clients.


My fearful dog allows handling from vets and placement of the muzzle, he has never growled at the vet but you can tell he's obviously stressed. 

Not saying your dog is fearful or not. But "wouldn't retreat" doesn't mean the dog isn't fearful. Fearful does not equal a dog who always chooses flight over fight. Many bites and more serious attacks do come from fearful dogs who for whatever reason felt a need to defend themselves.

I'm just a tad OCD when it comes to misconceptions and such


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> I was relieved to hear that she doesn't think of me what you people think of your clients. And I'm pretty sure she would have called it like she sees it. Might have been tactful about it but I would have gotten the idea.
> 
> I have awesome vets...yes I do. And since I've been in there 2-3x a week for the last month...I should probably bring them cookies on my next appt.


So what if she had told you that you were a pain in the arse.......no cookies??


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

sparra said:


> So what if she had told you that you were a pain in the arse.......no cookies??


No. I'm not like that. My momma taught me to share. I would absolutely still give her cookies....with dog hair...that had been dropped on the floor.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DJEtzel--Honestly, how do you KNOW how your dog will react when you are not there? Since you're not there to see the behavior, how do you know he doesn't behave BETTER for the techs and staff when you are NOT there? 

In my experience, most fearful (or "nervy") dogs seem to calm down when their owner leaves, and they are less likely to act up, fight, or bite. There are exceptions, but of the thousands and thousands of dogs I have worked with, I can think of exactly two right off the top of my head that were actually better behaved with their owner present. Maybe you have one (two?) of those rare cases, but statistically, it's more likely you're just being a helicopter mom and the veterinary staff are humoring you, bless their hearts.

You have to remember that veterinary staff are trained to handle all sorts of dogs with all sorts of temperaments. They know how to approach, touch, handle, restrain, and deal with frightened, shy, aggressive, and "nervy" dogs better than the average person; they do it every day and have a lot more experience than you, so don't assume that they "can't handle" your dog appropriately. They've probably seen dogs like yours before, and they probably will again.

I have to hand it to the vet and staff at your hospital, they must have the patience of saints.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Anubis_Star said:


> Sedation carries risk! Most of it decreases blood pressure, heart rate, temperature. You're risking your dog's life for lack of I dont even know. It baffles my mind! No we will NOT sedate your animal unless absolutely necessary. And just to fit your training guidelines is NOT appropriate. I find your reasonings for wanting to drug a sick animal so appaling it's actually a little sickening. A prime example of someone with NO idea trying to act like they know what's best.
> 
> BTW your dog is fearful. And it's low threshold is very worrisome. Dealing with him has given you an extremely warped view on how the world should handle dogs
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I would just walk away like I am now because she can't be wrong. She hasn't worked in the field like we have but likes to think she still knows it all. I agree 100% with your post. I have a fearful GSD too that I worked with a ton to get her to be just ok with other people handling her and never once did it cross my mind to have her sedated if my vet (before I was one) just needed to take her out of my sight. 

And no, nervy is not a foggy term. Low threshold is low threshold. If your dog has a low threshold for other people handling him, most likely he fits into the fearful category or not conditioned to being handled/trained for it category. You can have dogs with low threshold who aren't nervy/fearful. I have done a lot of veterinary behavioral work and study (at one point i was going to do only this as my career), most pets that act out at the vet are doing it out of fear as a root cause, regardless of whether they "back down or not.". Some of the most dangerous dogs are fear biters that choose to aggressively fight over flight. Doesn't make them not fearful. Most behavioral problems in general are due to fear.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Freestep said:


> DJEtzel--Honestly, how do you KNOW how your dog will react when you are not there? Since you're not there to see the behavior, how do you know he doesn't behave BETTER for the techs and staff when you are NOT there?
> 
> In my experience, most fearful (or "nervy") dogs seem to calm down when their owner leaves, and they are less likely to act up, fight, or bite. There are exceptions, but of the thousands and thousands of dogs I have worked with, I can think of exactly two right off the top of my head that were actually better behaved with their owner present. Maybe you have one (two?) of those rare cases, but statistically, it's more likely you're just being a helicopter mom and the veterinary staff are humoring you, bless their hearts.
> 
> ...


Lol. Yes, Like I am going to tell someone they are a PITA. Regardless of how someone might think I come across on here, I am actually a very, very nice person, and I am often gritting my teeth and smiling while dealing with some people. My boss has accused me of being too nice actually.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I was told by someone in the know that given Hans's pedigree, he might be nervy or sharp.

So I have done a lot of reading on just what that means, and have concluded it's a lot more than simply fearful.
Here is one of the threads I found to be quite interesting and informative:

DEFINE THE TERM "NERVY" DOGS - Page 1


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Freestep said:


> DJEtzel--Honestly, how do you KNOW how your dog will react when you are not there? Since you're not there to see the behavior, how do you know he doesn't behave BETTER for the techs and staff when you are NOT there?
> 
> In my experience, most fearful (or "nervy") dogs seem to calm down when their owner leaves, and they are less likely to act up, fight, or bite. There are exceptions, but of the thousands and thousands of dogs I have worked with, I can think of exactly two right off the top of my head that were actually better behaved with their owner present. Maybe you have one (two?) of those rare cases, but statistically, it's more likely you're just being a helicopter mom and the veterinary staff are humoring you, bless their hearts.
> 
> ...


I know because it was a vet taking him out of the room and physical restraining him/potentially roughing him up that caused the behavior to start being shown when he was a puppy. Repeated once at a new vet, then he was bad with ALL people for a long time. Now, the vets don't restrain him and he's fine with all of their shenanigans and it works. Not sure why you think my vet's a saint? As I said before our visits are quick and stress free when they don't have to be restrained. I train in agility with the behaviorist/tech who we use and she loves my dogs and looks forward to seeing each of them when we come in. 

You can claim my dog is fearful, but without seeing him, it doesn't mean much to me. We've been to loads of vets, trainers, and behaviorists about his issues when they WERE an issue and none thought they stemmed from fear. Most thought pain and unstable nerves.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ugavet2012 said:


> Lol. Yes, Like I am going to tell someone they are a PITA. Regardless of how someone might think I come across on here, I am actually a very, very nice person, and I am often gritting my teeth and smiling while dealing with some people. My boss has accused me of being too nice actually.


Same here!  As I mentioned previously, most of my clients are awesome and I'm lucky to have them, especially after reading this thread and realizing how crazy people can be. However, I have a few clients that are a PITA to deal with. Those kind of people are everywhere, so it's part of doing business. I smile, talk to them, answer their questions, humor their quirks, and assuage their insecurities. I laugh at their jokes, try to relate to them, understand their concerns and make them feel comfortable. They would never know that I cringe when I see them pull up and grit my teeth when they want to stand there being reassured for 20 minutes, taking time away that I could be spending grooming their little Precious so they can have their little Precious back in their arms in as little time as possible. 

I've been told numerous times that I need to get tough with clients and not tolerate disrespectful behavior on their part. But honestly, most of what they do isn't really meaning to disrespect me and screw up my schedule, they are just clueless and have no understanding of my position. Once I establish a relationship of trust with a new client, things usually become tolerable, but there are some who will always question everything I do, always have something to complain about, and always want to take just a little bit more. Those are the people that sap my energy and make me wish that dogs could bring themselves to the groomer. 

Please, everyone, be nice to your veterinarians and other pet professionals. We don't have an easy job and we don't get paid a ton, but we love animals and that's why we do it.


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## ugavet2012 (Apr 15, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> I was told by someone in the know that given Hans's pedigree, he might be nervy or sharp.
> 
> So I have done a lot of reading on just what that means, and have concluded it's a lot more than simply fearful.
> Here is one of the threads I found to be quite interesting and informative:
> ...


Much of what people describe in that thread still comes from fear as a root cause. I disagree that what makes me describe my GSD as nervy has anything to do with the fact that she has a low threshold for exciting stimuli, like going out into the yard. The act of me even walking towards the back door makes her spin, whine, bark. She doesn't react to innocuous stimuli like a leaf falling from a tree, but she was definitely described as nervy by other people too like at my schutzhund club. She is actually very stable in new situations alone, it's when you get strangers trying to touch her that is the problem. 
I have found that the vast majority of "behaviorists" are just self proclaimed and work on experience alone. There is a lot of the actual science background that is missing, which explains a lot. You need both the science background and the experience to be truly good at it. How many behaviorists are still describing so many dogs as "dominant"? Or protective? When the actual motivation lies in fear.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> I know because it was a vet taking him out of the room and physical restraining him/potentially roughing him up


See, you weren't even there, so you're just guessing at what happened. "Potentially roughing him up" doesn't mean he was roughed up, treated unfairly, or abused.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The more I read this thread, the more I'm thankful for the vets and techs I have. 

But I'm also thinking I'm doing my dogs a great disservice. My theory was she'll be more comfortable and behave better because she trusts me. But what I'm wondering is if she shouldn't have the experience of other people handling her. 

I know whenever a vet does take her from the room, she doesn't budge until I start to go with them and then tell her to go. But she does the same with my husband so that isn't always a fear thing, it's simply her being super attached to me. 

So what happens when she has to stay at the vets or is in a new place? She won't eat. What happens with others have to handle her? She's very subdued. New situations stress her. What would happen is she got lost? Would she go to strangers for help or be one of these dogs lost and running in the woods? And how would she react in the shelter? Would she lay there and starve herself to death before we found her? Be so scared she made the top of the kill list for that day?

I'll have to seriously rethink what I do with my next puppy and with her in the future.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Me too Jax08. wow.

BTW our little Aussie is 'shy' I guess you could say fearful of strangers but will warm up quickly and a vet tech was trying to get her to step up on the scale. She was crouching right over the top of Autumn and Autumn would back off the scale. Not wanting to be one of those PITA clients you guys are going on and on about.... I stayed quiet.

I let her try several times, not saying a peep. Finally when she started to physically force Autumn I asked her firmly to 'stop'. I took Autumn's leash gave her a second to compose herself, pointed to the scale and told her to 'hup'. On she went. I told her, 'sit' and she sat then I looked at the tech and smiled and said now we can get her weight reading. I've had this problem with employees too, I don't get why they think physically crowding a dog that doesn't know them is a good thing? I just don't get it.

Anyways my point is not all vet techs are really knowledgeable about dog behavioral responses, dog training or dog handling. Also, some vets I've met....good vets but when they ask me how do I get my dog to do that long down....well. hehehe


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

As it happens I have this pic on my cell phone**. This is what they did  . They were only kind-a scared when they got on the motorized slippery metal exam table that magically lifted them in the air but they didn't freak! Now I'm going to have get a motorized exam table to desensitize to that?? LOL!!!

I told them 'down' and that's what they did, watching the vet and tech through the open door, waiting for more treats. I brought high value treats and gave a bunch to the vet and tech who I told go ahead and spoil the heck out of them with treats, which they did and we all had fun with it...(Jax maybe that could be something you try?) 


(**I was proud of my babies so I took the pic, they were so good and yes I was sitting right there with them in the room the whole time, me and both the dogs all together. Also in the next room they had a little kitten that was ill, a mother and her small son. I thought that was very cool on the part of the vet as the little boy was learning compassion and that animals need Drs too, just like when I was young and took our pets in with our parents. It's a good teaching moment for the young ones IMO)


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

There are reviews on yelp for my clinic that specifically mention my name and how wonderful I was to work with! I read them and thought "I couldn't stand that client, but now they're a lifer! Great!" Lol

The last PITA client I dealt with had me on the phone for an hour - ended up telling me I should be the vet because I was so kind and helpful - I just didnt have the heart to tell her the real vet was avoiding her because she kept hitting on him - by flexing and lifting her shirt to show her abdomen - she's 73 :banghead: 

Some of you are assuming we're bad techs/workers because what we say here. Trust me, clients never know I cant stand them. Because at the end of the day we want their pet to get better. But I'm lucky I work in a field, we DO fire clients that are unruly or unmanageable! We dont need to have clients that make it impossible for our staff to work. Djetzl or however you spell it, my vet/clinic owner would of fired you as a client, I guarantee. He was bit pretty bad in the past and does have a fear of dogs that is a little unjustifiable (we make fun of him for it). He trusts his technicians to restrain because we do it slowly, gently, yet correctly. Staff does not get bit when we restrain. He is an AMAZING doctor, board certified, 25 years experience. If its 2 am and you have an emergency, I have worked at all the er clinics in the area and he is one of the best. But you would turn down the best medical help for your dog in an emergency because you cant hold your own dog.


Btw problems stemming from pain = fear. Fear of getting hurt again

Owners signing a liability waiver does not work. Because even though the restrainer MAY get bit, usually its the one poking that gets snapped at.

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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Freestep said:


> See, you weren't even there, so you're just guessing at what happened. "Potentially roughing him up" doesn't mean he was roughed up, treated unfairly, or abused.


That isn't the point at all. It was him leaving the room and being unmanageable with the vet/techs while they tried restraining him that caused his issues to develop. This is the dog that holds a down stay with me for a blood draw, but couldn't get his temp taken by force. 



Anubis_Star said:


> Some of you are assuming we're bad techs/workers because what we say here. Trust me, clients never know I cant stand them. Because at the end of the day we want their pet to get better. But I'm lucky I work in a field, we DO fire clients that are unruly or unmanageable! We dont need to have clients that make it impossible for our staff to work. Djetzl or however you spell it, my vet/clinic owner would of fired you as a client, I guarantee. He was bit pretty bad in the past and does have a fear of dogs that is a little unjustifiable (we make fun of him for it). He trusts his technicians to restrain because we do it slowly, gently, yet correctly. Staff does not get bit when we restrain. He is an AMAZING doctor, board certified, 25 years experience. If its 2 am and you have an emergency, I have worked at all the er clinics in the area and he is one of the best. But you would turn down the best medical help for your dog in an emergency because you cant hold your own dog.
> 
> 
> Btw problems stemming from pain = fear. Fear of getting hurt again
> ...


You're assuming here that I'M a bad client or a pain in the ass because of what I request. I would never WANT to come to your clinic because of your guidelines, so there is no way I would be "fired as a client". There's nothing wrong with your clinic requiring that, I just don't want to go to one that does, because they end up causing human aggression in my dog, writing nasty things about my dog because they can't physically restrain him, judging me and our training history, and telling rescues that I shouldn't foster dogs because one of mine is "unpredictable and a danger to society". That's what going to a vet that just wants to restrain everyone gets me. 

Going to a vet that allows me to put the same dog into a down stay for his vaccines/blood draws/skin scrapes, allows me (her suggestion!) to give him vaccines when possible, and watches as I put him in a sit stay on the scale has done wonders for his behavior and our relationship with our vet. Because we have an understanding vet and tech, they understand my dog's needs and know that it will be a much easier visit without surrounding/grabbing him, that we'll be done quick and easy, and that it will also help his behavior OUTSIDE of the office. Thankfully, the last two vet visits we've had he hasn't even growled when the vet/tech came around. He's *finally* (knocks on wood) getting over the issues that prior "restraint-only" vets caused and is able to trust our new vet.

I still don't consider him a fearful dog whatsoever (and I do have a fearful dog as well) but you can think whatever you'd like, as I said. It is not that he was ever afraid of being hurt, it's that he was uncomfortable and did not have stable nerves to make him tolerant of such rude behaviors.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

Gwenhwyfair said:


> You know I own a business and I have to deal with clients. People are sometimes annoying, they are sometimes stupid, they are sometimes flat out wrong. There are limits as to what I'll put up with but at the end of the day MOST of my clients are nice people who if treat with a little patience and respect respond in kind.


My first couple jobs - like most kids - were in the food service industry. It's been a few years, but, as I recall, this was pretty much the case. It got pretty bad during the summer when the rich, self-entitled folks came in to spend the summer in their lake house, but even then, most of them were pretty decent and I didn't mind interacting with them at all.

The big problem is that our brains are wired to inflate our memories of bad events, and ascribe more "importance" to them. So, say you have 50 great customers in one day, and 5 bad ones - the bad ones are probably going to set the tone for your memory of that night, or at least influence it in a biased manner.

There were some nights I went home and talked about my "customers" as though all of them were like the small handful of nasty ones - and really, most of them were not at all. I got to know many of them by name (even the rich "lakers!") and if I were gone they'd ask what happened to me . I even got tips at the drive-through every now and then from some of them.

I'm a strong introvert so I'm glad I'm out of that now. I was good at it but I'm much better at relating to machines (and animals, but I don't deal with animals at my job ).


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

As usual, spot on my friend.

Well said.

As a general rule life really is what WE make of it.




Draugr said:


> My first couple jobs - like most kids - were in the food service industry. It's been a few years, but, as I recall, this was pretty much the case. It got pretty bad during the summer when the rich, self-entitled folks came in to spend the summer in their lake house, but even then, most of them were pretty decent and I didn't mind interacting with them at all.
> 
> The big problem is that our brains are wired to inflate our memories of bad events, and ascribe more "importance" to them. So, say you have 50 great customers in one day, and 5 bad ones - the bad ones are probably going to set the tone for your memory of that night, or at least influence it in a biased manner.
> 
> ...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> It was him leaving the room and being unmanageable with the vet/techs while they tried restraining him that caused his issues to develop.


That didn't "cause" his issues. He had an issue to begin with, it just wasn't made evident until someone tried to restrain him. He probably would have done the same thing if YOU tried to restrain him. Not all dogs have an issue with restraint. But some dogs just have an inborn reaction, especially puppies that haven't been desensitized to it, and it isn't necessarily caused by "rough treatment" or abuse at any point in their lives. 

Near as I can figure, it's a throwback to wild instincts--in the wild, an animal caught and held so he can't move is put in a very dangerous position that could mean his demise. Domestic animals that are socialized to humans tend to have lost some of this instinct, but some still have a degree of it. It can be mitigated greatly by desensitization, but a few dogs just naturally hate any kind of restraint no matter how gentle, and will fight it tooth and nail. I find this a particular problem in Pugs, Shibas, and Shar Peis, but I can see how it could be an issue in a nervy, unstable GSD.

It would be great if all dogs would just stand like statues for procedures so that restraint isn't necessary, and if your dogs will do that, more power to you. But most will not, and it's dangerous if a dog moves during a blood draw. Vet staff aren't out to hurt a dog, make him uncomfortable, or scare him. All they want is for the dog to be still so they can safely do their procedure. They are trained in restraint techniques that are most effective and least traumatic to the animal; what would be the point of doing it any other way? Most dogs will relax and accept this handling if it is done properly, but if an animal struggles, it doesn't necessarily mean the handler is doing something wrong.

I have some dogs I groom that will start screaming as soon as I *touch* their foot. These dogs have never been hurt or abused, but they have an inborn hate of restraint, and their owners never bothered to desensitize. These are the dogs that have just been super-sensitive from day one. It's a temperament issue, and the fact that their owners didn't do anything to desensitize them doesn't help.

The point of this long diatribe is that the vet is not at fault for your dog's issue with restraint, your dog was probably born with it. Just because he fought being restrained does NOT mean he was roughed up, abused, or treated unfairly. All it means is that he has an issue with restraint. Instead of trying to desensitize him to it, you've chosen to train your way around it. Which is fine as long as it works. But I hate to imagine a scenario when your dog needs help and you can't be there to put him in a down stay.


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## ladyfreckles (Nov 10, 2011)

It's mostly a lot of little things and I've never had a huge issue with the vet. 

One thing that stands out is that sometimes we see different vets depending on when we're coming in and all of them have very different opinions about our pets. With our cats, we've had vets say they were too thin and we should try making them gain weight, and we've had other vets say that they were actually ideal and "a little thin" is better than a little fat. The conflicting information can be irritating. 

The two biggest annoyances came from one vet asking if Viking was aggressive back when he was a pup. He walked over, totally overwhelmed Viking and just started examining without really introducing himself. Viking didn't really act aggressively but he was a squirmy little snot. We don't go to that vet anymore (different vet from our usual but we chose them because they had bigger offices). Naturally any vets we've seen since then do nothing but gush over how well trained Viking is and how much the like him.

The second was recently with our current vet. We fell behind on nail clipping (Viking's nails grow exceedingly fast, it's kind of ridiculous) and asked the vet if they could shorten it significantly for us. They said his nail length was fine and wouldn't recommend it or cut it any shorter. I disagree since they were touching the ground when he walked and I suspect they've been contributing to his fingers not sticking together. Just a minor annoyance. 

When I have a disagreement with my vet I just remind myself that they are experienced animal practitioners and they are doing what they think is best for the animal. I would rather have a vet with an informed opinion that will stand his or her ground than a vet that just goes along with every little idea the owner brings up. Nails are not a huge issue here, and I know plenty of dogs with nails this long that do fine, but I really don't like it or think it helps Viking. So all in all, there are bigger fish to fry.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Freestep said:


> That didn't "cause" his issues. He had an issue to begin with, it just wasn't made evident until someone tried to restrain him. He probably would have done the same thing if YOU tried to restrain him. Not all dogs have an issue with restraint. But some dogs just have an inborn reaction, especially puppies that haven't been desensitized to it, and it isn't necessarily caused by "rough treatment" or abuse at any point in their lives.
> 
> 
> The point of this long diatribe is that the vet is not at fault for your dog's issue with restraint, your dog was probably born with it. Just because he fought being restrained does NOT mean he was roughed up, abused, or treated unfairly. All it means is that he has an issue with restraint. Instead of trying to desensitize him to it, you've chosen to train your way around it. Which is fine as long as it works. But I hate to imagine a scenario when your dog needs help and you can't be there to put him in a down stay.


Here is the issue. This was not Frag's first vet visit, and he had been restrained by techs up until this point with us there for numerous visits prior. THIS ONE is what started the issue, he was absolutely fine being restrained by anyone up until then. Me, my boyfriend, strangers, vets. Anyone could touch them any way they needed. Now only myself and people Frag really knows can touch him- still in any way. I can lay on him, pull any part of his body, give him vaccines, etc. and he is totally fine. Just not with vet staff. 

Now, for whatever reason, he has to regain trust in these people that did SOMETHING to him to cause this. Desensitization has been happening since it started, so don't make it sound like it wasn't tried. We've been increasing his threshold for years since this started with the help of numerous trainers and dog people, and now he is to the point where he can be touched and played with by strangers again, but definitely not the vet. There is no safe way to just desensitize him all at once without ruining it and setting him back. 

If my dog is in a position anytime soon where he needs help and I'm not there, he is most certainly going to be roughed up and sedated to be manageable, and it will ruin all of the desensitization/threshold building progress we've made. So until I can rest assured, we'll be avoiding what sends him over that threshold to prevent a relapse in behavior. That's just common sense from ANY training/behavior standpoint, so I'm not sure why it's such a frowned upon idea? I'm not preventing him from being handlable, I'm preventing him from getting worse with people.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

DJEtzel said:


> Here is the issue. This was not Frag's first vet visit, and he had been restrained by techs up until this point with us there for numerous visits prior. THIS ONE is what started the issue, he was absolutely fine being restrained by anyone up until then. Me, my boyfriend, strangers, vets. Anyone could touch them any way they needed. Now only myself and people Frag really knows can touch him- still in any way. I can lay on him, pull any part of his body, give him vaccines, etc. and he is totally fine. Just not with vet staff.
> 
> Now, for whatever reason, he has to regain trust in these people that did SOMETHING to him to cause this. Desensitization has been happening since it started, so don't make it sound like it wasn't tried. We've been increasing his threshold for years since this started with the help of numerous trainers and dog people, and now he is to the point where he can be touched and played with by strangers again, but definitely not the vet. There is no safe way to just desensitize him all at once without ruining it and setting him back.
> 
> If my dog is in a position anytime soon where he needs help and I'm not there, he is most certainly going to be roughed up and sedated to be manageable, and it will ruin all of the desensitization/threshold building progress we've made. So until I can rest assured, we'll be avoiding what sends him over that threshold to prevent a relapse in behavior. That's just common sense from ANY training/behavior standpoint, so I'm not sure why it's such a frowned upon idea? I'm not preventing him from being handlable, I'm preventing him from getting worse with people.


What age was he when this incidence occured. Im much more inclined to believe that had something to do with it. Its like every dog on here that's fine until close to a year and then it starts being scared of it's own shadow.

A stable dog will rebound from "abusive" situations and have very few lasting problems. It's the story of the rescue dog "oh wow his old owners beat him but look how happy he is now". for a dog to be so extremely sebsitive there has to be underlying temperament issues.

Im sorry this incidence occured at the vet. But to blame them for a dog being so unstable seems a little unfair.

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## GSD246 (Jan 17, 2012)

I had vets who were afraid of my dog. I know this isn't a tech but it is the truth and it annoyed me. I'd rather the vet refuse me than to take my payment and not even get close to my dog because they are afraid. 

As for vet techs, a few have annoyed me. I've been to lots of different vet places and normally the tech is a lot better than the vets in terms of treatment and knowledge. However, 2 of the vets I been to were way above the average. 

1 of the 2 vets had a lady who loved to make my gsd excited which makes her jump and then she wanted to treat this jumping. I had to intervene. My revenge, she became my GSD's best friend. To get her to stay on the scale she held her in place and my dog went crazy with the face licking all over her lips. The poor tech opened her mouth in shock giving my dog a good 10 second french kiss. This took place almost 2 years ago, it is hard to believe how fast time flies.

The other vet tech wanted to give my dog a broad dewormer even though I complained about them giving her problems. Before I could even respond the vet was on her to never recommend that junk to another one of his patients ever again. He explained to me that she was new and had just recently finished her schooling. The new vets are big pill pushers and he had been doing this for long time. In short he told me all the new methods are doing is causing more problems since they aren't finding the actual problems with the dogs and instead are trying to treat everything.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> Now, for whatever reason, he has to regain trust in these people that did SOMETHING to him to cause this. Desensitization has been happening since it started, so don't make it sound like it wasn't tried. We've been increasing his threshold for years since this started with the help of numerous trainers and dog people, and now he is to the point where he can be touched and played with by strangers again, but definitely not the vet. There is no safe way to just desensitize him all at once without ruining it and setting him back.


Of course desensitizing is not a quick-fix, it takes time and must be done very slowly and gradually. But it shouldn't take *years*. 



> If my dog is in a position anytime soon where he needs help and I'm not there, he is most certainly going to be roughed up and sedated to be manageable, and it will ruin all of the desensitization/threshold building progress we've made.


Why are you so insistent that any kind of restraint = "roughing up"? I doubt he was roughed up the first time, and I doubt he'd be roughed up now.... vet techs are not exactly itching to do battle with a dog that hates being restrained, and if he's that dangerous to manage, he'll probably be sedated before they even try to touch him. No one wants to get into a physical struggle with a big, strong, aggressive, neurotic dog, trust me. 



Anubis_Star said:


> What age was he when this incidence occured. Im much more inclined to believe that had something to do with it. Its like every dog on here that's fine until close to a year and then it starts being scared of it's own shadow.
> 
> A stable dog will rebound from "abusive" situations and have very few lasting problems. It's the story of the rescue dog "oh wow his old owners beat him but look how happy he is now". for a dog to be so extremely sebsitive there has to be underlying temperament issues.
> 
> Im sorry this incidence occured at the vet. But to blame them for a dog being so unstable seems a little unfair.


That's what I'm thinking, too. Wondering how old he was when this behavior showed up. We all see threads started every day about GSDs who suddenly get fearful, aggressive, or neurotic during adolescence. Yes, it's unfortunate that something was triggered at the vet's, but that doesn't mean it's the vet's fault--if he was fine with restraint before, as you say, they had no reason to expect him to freak out. If the dog had good temperament he would be able to bounce back from it immediately.

All I'm saying is, don't blame the vet for his temperament issue. Even if he were frightened or hurt by whatever happened, a stable dog would be able to get over it. I'm sure that if the veterinary staff had known he was going to suddenly flip out one day, they would have taken measures to prevent it. Just as they do now.


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Why are you so insistent that any kind of restraint = "roughing up"? I doubt he was roughed up the first time, and I doubt he'd be roughed up now.... vet techs are not exactly itching to do battle with a dog that hates being restrained, and if he's that dangerous to manage, he'll probably be sedated before they even try to touch him. No one wants to get into a physical struggle with a big, strong, aggressive, neurotic dog, trust me.


BINGO. Pop that bad boy in the behind with some hydromorphone or dexdomitor.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Anubis_Star said:


> What age was he when this incidence occured. Im much more inclined to believe that had something to do with it. Its like every dog on here that's fine until close to a year and then it starts being scared of it's own shadow.
> 
> A stable dog will rebound from "abusive" situations and have very few lasting problems. It's the story of the rescue dog "oh wow his old owners beat him but look how happy he is now". for a dog to be so extremely sebsitive there has to be underlying temperament issues.
> 
> ...


He was about a year and a half old IIRC. He had made numerous trips to the vet just fine and was meeting new people on a daily basis without an issue until this event. Like I said, I *know* he's not stable, so I don't think the vet did anything extremely profound, but their protocol did cause these to surface when I don't believe they would have otherwise. I'm sure he did not listen well to them because he didn't know them and we weren't around, and they applied pressure and had to physically restrain him for a fecal which, based on their remarks on our file, seemed like it took a lot.



Freestep said:


> Of course desensitizing is not a quick-fix, it takes time and must be done very slowly and gradually. But it shouldn't take *years*.


No? How many unstable, aggressive dogs have you worked with? We are _constantly _working on this, but as I said... for the first year or so that this happened he wasn't allowed to greet ANYONE to work on it because he was not safe. 



> Why are you so insistent that any kind of restraint = "roughing up"? I doubt he was roughed up the first time, and I doubt he'd be roughed up now.... vet techs are not exactly itching to do battle with a dog that hates being restrained, and if he's that dangerous to manage, he'll probably be sedated before they even try to touch him. No one wants to get into a physical struggle with a big, strong, aggressive, neurotic dog, trust me.


You misunderstood what I said. In the quote of mine, I said if he had to go in now without me... because he would absolutely be growling and uneasy and thrashing around. I've worked as a tech, I know how hard it is to restrain dogs like this and I know how much force is necessary. I've had to pin dogs against walls in headlocks for a blood draw. It's not something I wanted to do or want anyone to do to my dog, but it would likely be necessary to hold him, is what I'm saying, and it would cause significant setbacks in our training. Almost any restraint is very rude to dogs. Dogs that fight restraint get restrained harded/tighter, and that is very rough, IMO. I'm not saying they're going to be hitting him or slapping him, but the effects are just as bad.



> That's what I'm thinking, too. Wondering how old he was when this behavior showed up. We all see threads started every day about GSDs who suddenly get fearful, aggressive, or neurotic during adolescence. Yes, it's unfortunate that something was triggered at the vet's, but that doesn't mean it's the vet's fault--if he was fine with restraint before, as you say, they had no reason to expect him to freak out. If the dog had good temperament he would be able to bounce back from it immediately.
> 
> All I'm saying is, don't blame the vet for his temperament issue. Even if he were frightened or hurt by whatever happened, a stable dog would be able to get over it. I'm sure that if the veterinary staff had known he was going to suddenly flip out one day, they would have taken measures to prevent it. Just as they do now.


And again, I didn't say it was their fault, but they did cause this as far as I am concerned. I don't think he would have developed such a hate for people if it had not been for that one event where everything changed. I already said I know that he's not 100% stable, I'm certainly not blaming them for that. Unfortunately this veterinary staff was not willing to work with him because of how aggressive he got with them, which was for the best and why we found much better vets to work on his problem. But I am now not going to put any other dogs in that position to have it happen to them as well, out of the blue with no track record of aggression.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> Dogs that fight restraint get restrained harded/tighter, and that is very rough, IMO.


That's not necessarily true. When I get a dog in for, say, a toenail trim, and the owner tells me "It took three people to hold him down the last time", my first instinct is not to restrain harder/tighter, but to do exactly the opposite and just sort of gentle the dog through the procedure with as little restraint as possible. I have a lot more success this way, and I can get all four feet done in about two minutes. Less is more with some dogs, and experienced veterinary staff know this, too. Like the vet you have now.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Freestep said:


> That's not necessarily true. When I get a dog in for, say, a toenail trim, and the owner tells me "It took three people to hold him down the last time", my first instinct is not to restrain harder/tighter, but to do exactly the opposite and just sort of gentle the dog through the procedure with as little restraint as possible. I have a lot more success this way, and I can get all four feet done in about two minutes. Less is more with some dogs, and experienced veterinary staff know this, too. Like the vet you have now.


I feel like you're literally trying to pick apart everything I say and this is all you have left. I didn't say that when they can be handled gently they get restrained. I trim nails as part of my job at the dog park twice a month and I see about 60 dogs a month... I do the exact same thing you do. But when that doesn't work and they need to hold still before I quick them, I have to hold their paw/leg harder and harder and take short breaks, etc. 

When a gentle restraint does not work and the dog resists (like mine) they have no choice but to put more pressure on the dog to hold it still so that a blood draw can be successful, etc.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

One thing my old vet would do that would annoy me is get Chrono all excited so that he's giving her kisses, and she'd reward him for that, then she'd get sick of it and get angry whenever he'd lick her for the rest of the appointment. You don't reward behaviors and then suddenly change your mind and get angry that the dog isn't a mind reader.

Plus I figure after you stab him in the butt with a needle and shoot stuff up his nose, getting your face licked is probably an extremely positive outcome compared to what could happen, like getting bit. Especially when he sees her once a year so she's practically a total stranger.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DJEtzel said:


> I feel like you're literally trying to pick apart everything I say and this is all you have left.


Sorry, not trying to pick you apart, just trying to give the other perspective in all this. 

Pet professionals have gotten pretty well picked apart in this thread, so don't feel like you're being singled out.


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