# Pano and RAW diet



## MrsWoodcock (Oct 21, 2010)

Im still reading more on a raw diet. dont want to do anything incorrectly!!! But i had heard previously that less protein is better for a GSD with pano. My female has had pano for a couple months now... will probably have it till about 18 months of age (mother had it off and off till then) I contacted the breeder, and she said thaty a raw diet is the best diet no matter what "Ailment" the dog might have (speaking about Pano) I was wondering if that was correct, if i should just start my 7 month old male and wait for her? Also if there is another thread or website that shows when to feed, how much, and what to start with and what food is good and what is not? haha Ive read quite abit, but trust You all on the forum more. So any advice would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you!!!


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Otto had pano off and on for couple months. Pano as know as growning pains. It travels from leg to legal causing lameness. My vet told me to take him off TOTW(AM) and Raw (PM). She wanted me to trasfer back over to a LBP food. His 9 months old 8 at the time. (Take them off at 6 -7 months LBP has lots of protein) After doing lots for research and lots of crying. I kept him on his original diet and told my vet that we would just have to agree to disagree. There is no proff that this is genetic, environmental or food thing. There are theories.... This could go on and on. But we all want to do whats best for our dog. I suggest Rimadyl (for pain) and TLC and not changing there diet to much we are what there bodies to heal. Limiting there exerise. This might drive you both crazy b/c there energy is still there. I also started to order Kelp, soild gold has some thing that you can buy at Petco. I can give you more info if you PM. I really cryed over this issue with Otto I'am so happy he is doing better. I hope you pick whats best for you and your dog.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Honestly, that whole "puppies need less protein" thing is a load of garbage. WHERE has there ever been any evidence to support that? 

Its the calcium and phosphorus levels that you have to watch out for, as an excess in either can lead to growth spurts. Please read this study for more details: 

Relationship of Nutrition and Skeletal Disease in Young Dogs

Basically keeping your dog under 1.5% calcium, and under 1% phosphorus is best. MOST large breed puppy foods are formulated with this in mind, and are your safest bet for feeding a LB puppy kibble. Foods like ToTW have way too much calcium, as do many other foods, even the ones claiming to be "all life stages". So it is for that reason I would recommend caution when using them.

If you want to go the raw rout, which I very much think you should, then simply adjust the feed % (for the average adult, you will need to feed aprx 2-3% of the dog's body weight... for puppy, you will be feeding closer to 10%) and be VERY strict with the bone intake. It should not be exceeding 10% of the total diet, ESPECIALLY for a growing puppy. 

The good folks over at Dogster have devised an absolutely wonderful spreadsheet that calculates the numbers for you. It is fantastic, and if you are very nervous about making the switch, I highly recommend you take a look:

PERSONAL RAW FEEDING GUIDE (New and Improved) - Raw Food Diet Forum


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## MrsWoodcock (Oct 21, 2010)

Yeah i took my female off puppy kibble LATER than i should have, not knowing much about it... i did what my vet told me to do. She was close to a year. My male max, i took him off puppy kibble at 5 months... he is now 7 1/2 months old. They are both eating Buffalo Blue chickien and rice dog food. Ive just recently been cooking rice adding it to it, and also green beans and carrots. Also a lil of the Buffal Blue Wilderness canned food BLUE Wilderness Salmon Flavor is a High Protein, Low Carb Canned Dog Food. As far as my female Ruby, her pano has gone from right back clockwise off and on, and today i see her left front and left back legs she trys to not put too much pressure on it. I feel so bad for her! been loving on her even more (as if that is possible!!) I brought her to the vet wanting to see if there were any pain meds for her. and at the time it was in her right back leg, and she was a year old... The vet said it wasnt pano because she is too old for that... pano apparently stops at 5 months lol whatever... She was an amazing vet, sweet, kind, personable, and knows most of her stuff, but as far as the german shepherd breed and specifics i dont think she .... understands all she needs. She tried to tell me it was most likely HD and or a form of like lyme disease? she ran the blood tests NOTHING.... and i wasnt gonna pay 80ish dollars for an xray when i was 99 percent sure it was and is pano. Like i said, her mother had it all the way to 18 months old. anyways! hahah 
Thank you atravis for all the info! i really appreciate it!!!
and danielleottomom i will be PM'ing you :]


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

IMO, Pano is more of a genetic/structural issue...though diet may play into it. I'd rather feed a quality kibble that is appropriate for growing GSD's or a well researched raw diet. Vitamin C will help shorten the bout by reducing inflammation. Start with 500mg human grade and over a couple weeks the dosage will be 2000mg split between meals. I keep my dogs on C daily/they're rawfed.
2 of mine went thru bouts of Pano and they are on the larger end of the scale(not overweight) heightwise and weightwise. Had nothing to do with the diet.


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## MrsWoodcock (Oct 21, 2010)

THANKS!!! :] i didnt know vitamin C will help shorten the bout! And Size isnt ruby's issue.. She is 60 lbs and almost a year and a half! My 7 month old male is her weight haha 
Im definately gonna have to try the vitamin C... so human grade? Pill form is ok i assume? Oh and is fish oil good for dogs? i heard yes from someone before...





onyx'girl said:


> IMO, Pano is more of a genetic/structural issue...though diet may play into it. I'd rather feed a quality kibble that is appropriate for growing GSD's or a well researched raw diet. Vitamin C will help shorten the bout by reducing inflammation. Start with 500mg human grade and over a couple weeks the dosage will be 2000mg split between meals. I keep my dogs on C daily/they're rawfed.
> 2 of mine went thru bouts of Pano and they are on the larger end of the scale(not overweight) heightwise and weightwise. Had nothing to do with the diet.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

It's how FAST they grow that usually causes the problem. With raw, puppies tend to grow slower and more steadily.

My friends breeds and raises Irish Wolfhounds. These dogs go from a few pounds to 100+ pounds in a matter of months and yet hers never have any growing pains. They are weaned directly to raw and never eat kibble.


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## Lesley1905 (Aug 25, 2010)

Jane got me on the Vit C as well!! Brody and my other dog get it once a day now. She also helped me with the Salmon oil, when you give the salmon oil you need to supplement with Vit E. So whenever I decide to add in Salmon Oil, I always add in a Vit E as well  Thanks Jane!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If you haven't had x-rays done, I would certainly do them at two years old. It will be good for your breeder to know how the hips are, and if there is a problem you'll be able to manage it early. Definately worth the cost, but go to a vet that knows how to properly position the dog. Otherwise it will be a waste of $.
I give my rawfed dogs human grade salmon oil(up to 4000mg daily) 400iu of E, the C and B complex if I give eggs that day(just my routine), I'v read that raw eggs may deplete the B dogs naturally produce. When the days get short with no sun I may throw in a D as well.
The only thing my dogs won't eat readily is the C, so I crush it with a cheap pill crusher and mix it into the ground mix or yogurt.


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## alisongunner (Oct 1, 2014)

I have a 7 month old black and tan. Gunner has been raw fed since 4 months and is now 68 pounds. He has pano and east / west turned out front feet. I follow Barf diet , but is all this genetic?? Vet said his calcium and phosphorus are perfect.

please help, alison


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