# Any thoughts on Stanislaus Shepherds



## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

Hey. So i'm looking for a GSD puppy that I would like to use for schutzhund and SAR. I'd be new to both activities. I've found several breeders that breed for these purposes, though many do not have a littler planned for a while. One of the breeders I was considering is Stanislaus Shepherds. I have not been able to find very much written about them in previous posts. I've had great correspondence with them already, and they look good online. Any thoughts on how this breeder would suit my needs? Thanks in advance!!


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I don't know anything about the breeder but your comment on Schutzhund and SAR caught my eye. 

This isn't the RULE but you want to make sure that the SAR teams you are interested are ok with your dog doing Schutzhund. There are a some that won't accept you dog if they have done or are currently doing bite work. My team was that way.. and I know of a few others that are as well. This isn't saying there aren't any out there that will allow both, but just keep that in mind when you are looking at a sport and working your dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If you are serious about these activities, I would recommend checking out some IPO clubs and/or SAR teams first. See if they can recommend good breeders for you. I cannot really comment on Stanislaus as I have no first hand experience, but my recommendation in general would be that if you are interested in a particular activity, find a breeder who does that activity and whose breeding dogs and progeny are titled/successful in that activity.


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## rtdmmcintyre (Jan 7, 2015)

If You are looking for an IPO dog it would also be best to look at a kennel that is showing in IPO and holds to the German standard. They are using non titled studs so it would be hard to say what the stud is capable of and what kind of pups they would throw. Like others suggested if you check out some clubs and see if it is something you are interested and ask for some help and suggestions. Most clubs are more then willing to help develop someone who has some interest. The more research you do and find out exactly what you are wanting to do with the dog will help define who would be most likely in your area to be able to get you a dog that you can work in that venue. With your first dog even though you may not get a super star you are still going to want very good potential.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

I recently came across fullforcek9, which has some puppies available now. Any thoughts on this breeder? Their dogs are all titled, but their structure kinda looks like they are show? This is from my untrained eye of course. I am in the process of meeting up with some people in the area, but wanted to get some of your thoughts also, since there's a lot of knowledgeable people on here from throughout the states. A lot of you know people that have done business or are personally connected to different breeders  Thanks for the replies so far!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Are you in MI? 

Full Force K9 has working lines.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Where are you located?

I've seen a few puppies out of full force. PM me for more information, their dogs are definitely not all titled. They use outside titled males. They are not show lines, they're all working line.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Both SAR and IPO are very time consuming. Also the dog you would want for either, can be very different. As mentioned, make sure you are allowed to do bite sports and SAR with that particular SAR team. I was turned down by two SAR teams because of bite sports. Another accepted me, but I was too busy with bite work to go in that direction. 

I would get out to IPO and SAR groups to see what you are most interested in. Then maybe start your search for a dog. If you list what area you're in, maybe someone can help with a breeder they know produces well for whatever venue you decide.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

I'm in Massachusetts. I telework the majority of the time and have a lot of free time on my hands for training and bonding. I would like to try sch first, and if that did not work out, either because the dog or handler (me) didn't care for it, move into something else, like SAR. That's certainly good advice to make sure that bite training didn't stop me from participating in other activities with the dog that I want to do. I will certainly look into that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It would be best if you committed to one or the other beforehand. Foundation is everything. And SAR is not a sport. It's a life and death commitment. It's serious. I highly suggest you find a club to start learning AND find a SAR group to talk too prior to looking for a breeder.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> It would be best if you committed to one or the other beforehand. Foundation is everything. And SAR is not a sport. It's a life and death commitment. It's serious. I highly suggest you find a club to start learning AND find a SAR group to talk too prior to looking for a breeder.


Agreed. I stated earlier that my primary interest was Sch, but in case that didn't work out, I had other interests, such as SAR. I'm not going to half ass this, for sure. I do have some experience in LE working around partrol dogs in a dual purpose capacity and SAR. I've assisted in training and am familiar with the concepts. I have never handled them myself, but understand the seriousness of the activity. These departments and clubs are on the other side of country, so I have limited contact with them nowadays... I appreciate the information, but would like to get back to the original questions asked, which is the breeders I mentioned earlier


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I read what you wrote, thus my response on foundation.

Alrighty then. Carry on.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> I read what you wrote, thus my response on foundation.
> 
> Alrighty then. Carry on.


im glad we've been on the same page all along  Any insight into those breeders?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

No, I have nothing I prefer to add.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

All SAR groups are different, but the one that I met with years back told me that I would have to become a member and pass a certification *before* they would allow me to start working a dog, and would help find a suitable dog. A good friend of mine has also done it and it sounded like a very serious commitment, lots of long travel for training, long days, expensive gear, certifications, being on call....I ultimately decided I could not make the commitment, not with my current job and finances. I think it would be quite rare for someone to manage both, unless it's a person very experienced with dogs that are easier to train (lines bred for it) and they have easier access to SchH training (club at or near their home).


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

reptilejason said:


> Agreed. I stated earlier that my primary interest was Sch, but in case that didn't work out, I had other interests, such as SAR. I'm not going to half ass this, for sure. I do have some experience in LE working around partrol dogs in a dual purpose capacity and SAR. I've assisted in training and am familiar with the concepts. I have never handled them myself, but understand the seriousness of the activity. These departments and clubs are on the other side of country, so I have limited contact with them nowadays... I appreciate the information, but would like to get back to the original questions asked, which is the breeders I mentioned earlier


If you've worked with LE K9's and/or SAR groups then you should know exactly what kind of dog you should be looking for. Better yet, you should have great connections, across the country, via your LE and SAR experience to get exactly the kind of dog required for either venue (sport or SAR). LE and SAR are VERY particular (usually) about where their dogs come from, how they are tested, etc...I'm not questioning your experience or your kennel choice (didn't look at the kennel), rather encouraging you to utilize the trainers you no-doubtedly worked with to find the right dog for you. Most of them wouldn't recommend a kennel that doesn't have a proven history placing working dogs, or would suggest getting a green dog you can test.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

As far as breeders who do/know SchH and breed titles dogs as well as produce dogs that go on to earn SchH titles, there are good ones to choose from depending on how far you want to travel, price range, whether they ship or you are OK with shipping.... Staatsmacht, Geistwasser, zu treuen Haenden, Wildhaus, Rennbahn, Olgameister, Sportwaffen....there are many, these are just the first few popping into my mind.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

If you are looking close to you for sch prospects, ck out Liberatore / Ang she is in Maine. I think she's a member here, but isn't that active on the board.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

DaniFani said:


> If you've worked with LE K9's and/or SAR groups then you should know exactly what kind of dog you should be looking for. Better yet, you should have great connections, across the country, via your LE and SAR experience to get exactly the kind of dog required for either venue (sport or SAR). LE and SAR are VERY particular (usually) about where their dogs come from, how they are tested, etc...I'm not questioning your experience or your kennel choice (didn't look at the kennel), rather encouraging you to utilize the trainers you no-doubtedly worked with to find the right dog for you. Most of them wouldn't recommend a kennel that doesn't have a proven history placing working dogs, or would suggest getting a green dog you can test.


I worked as a patrol officer and SWAT. We utilized GSD's during drug searches of cars, tracking suspects, some entries on SWAT and I would spot/cover the K9 officer, and wear the bite suit occasionally during training. That's what I meant by saying I worked around them. I believe that my agencies would send the K9 officer to training, in which they would stay for a month or so... I believe the dogs were purchased and imported from Germany. I was NEVER involved in the process of selecting the dog... it's an agency of several hundred people with 4 K9's. The agency did not purchase dogs on a regular basis, obviously. Anyone here that is a police officer from a large agency would know why a non-K9 officer is not an expert on police dogs; however, we are all trained around them. We were taught how to act around the dog in order to not interfere with their tracking, etc and to stand still in the stack, so the dog wouldn't bite us. So please don't infer that I am lying about my LEO experience by assuming that every police officer that works for an agency with police dogs should be an expert with them.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

JakodaCD OA said:


> If you are looking close to you for sch prospects, ck out Liberatore / Ang she is in Maine. I think she's a member here, but isn't that active on the board.


 Thanks! I'll see if I can make contact with her.



Liesje said:


> As far as breeders who do/know SchH and breed titles dogs as well as produce dogs that go on to earn SchH titles, there are good ones to choose from depending on how far you want to travel, price range, whether they ship or you are OK with shipping.... Staatsmacht, Geistwasser, zu treuen Haenden, Wildhaus, Rennbahn, Olgameister, Sportwaffen....there are many, these are just the first few popping into my mind.


Thanks! I'll check into these breeders. I am pretty indifferent about distance...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Breeder's website: Breeding German Shepherds with integrity and a commitment to the German Shepherd Dog


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

reptilejason said:


> I worked as a patrol officer and SWAT. We utilized GSD's during drug searches of cars, tracking suspects, some entries on SWAT and I would spot/cover the K9 officer, and wear the bite suit occasionally during training. That's what I meant by saying I worked around them. I believe that my agencies would send the K9 officer to training, in which they would stay for a month or so... I believe the dogs were purchased and imported from Germany. I was NEVER involved in the process of selecting the dog... it's an agency of several hundred people with 4 K9's. The agency did not purchase dogs on a regular basis, obviously. Anyone here that is a police officer from a large agency would know why a non-K9 officer is not an expert on police dogs; however, we are all trained around them. We were taught how to act around the dog in order to not interfere with their tracking, etc and to stand still in the stack, so the dog wouldn't bite us. So please don't infer that I am lying about my LEO experience by assuming that every police officer that works for an agency with police dogs should be an expert with them.


My family is a LE family, I work with lots, am best friends with a k9 handler at a large department, have participated in his training, have been (and continue to be) part of the selection process and initial testing phases of dual, drug, and patrol dogs.....I figured the above was what you *meant by your first post, but it's not what you said in your first post. 

The experience you spoke of in the above post would still give you some nice contacts in regards to finding a quality working dog (I know this because I used similar contacts myself as well as lots of other LEO's at the department...LEO's love GSDs, and they always seem to seek out the trainers to find nice ones, even if they were just going to be family pets, regardless of how closely they worked with the department k9/s). I was simply suggesting you use those contacts, especially since you want to actually WORK the dog, and not "just" have it as a pet. However, you now have quite a long list to take a look at thanks to Lies, and others if you choose not to go that route. Good luck.


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## reptilejason (May 21, 2015)

No problem. Once again, i believe my original post stated that i worked "around" the dogs and never handled the dogs. I did not expand on the details, because I usually don't talk too much about myself online. I get very defensive when someone calls out my integrity, especially when it comes to my LE and military service. You stating "If you..." seemed like such as statement, even if you stated in your post that that was not your intention. 

In the future, feel free to ask me to clarify any statement if your are not sure what i'm trying to convey  but like i stated earlier, i was just looking at getting some insights into the two breeders I asked about. I find that the more people I talk to and the more breeders i look into, the better the result. I think i've mentioned in previous posts that i have reached out to agencies. But their experience, may not be representative of a civilian's experience, or another agencies. While LEO's love german shepherds, most cannot afford an expensive one on a police officer's salary of around $39,000 (the starting salary of officer's at my department). Most officers would think i'm crazy for spending several thousands of dollars on a dog, when that money could be put towards a new AR15 or 1911... lol. . Ultimately, I decided on a puppy from Fullforcek9 and am very excited about him. I appreciate everyones input into my questions, and all of the time you dedicated to helping me. Particularly the half dozen people who PM'd me about these breeders


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Jeesh, come out to the west coast...officers salaries are double that starting out in good, larger, departments with lots and lots of training and specialty positions available.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

If you want to do a sport or activity - go with a breeder who is PROVEN to be PRODUCING dogs that do the sport or activity!!!! Everyone with a website can spout rhetoric about what their dogs can do.....but bottom line is that I keep seeing breeders cited who have NOT produced a titled dog or who have not trained and titled dogs....lots of PR and well written essays that say everything you want to hear and pretty pictures...but NOTHING or nearly nothing out there with titles or certifications 

Sort of a rant, I realize, but I keep seeing this over and over...there ARE good breeders who have a track record out there....

Lee


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

and some agencies still have 3% @ 50 highest year...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> If you want to do a sport or activity - go with a breeder who is PROVEN to be PRODUCING dogs that do the sport or activity!!!! Everyone with a website can spout rhetoric about what their dogs can do.....but bottom line is that I keep seeing breeders cited who have NOT produced a titled dog or who have not trained and titled dogs....lots of PR and well written essays that say everything you want to hear and pretty pictures...but NOTHING or nearly nothing out there with titles or certifications
> 
> Sort of a rant, I realize, but I keep seeing this over and over...there ARE good breeders who have a track record out there....
> 
> Lee



:thumbup: Personally I want to see breeders that are not only titling dogs, but titling there own bred dogs. I keep seeing breeders who only trial imported dogs, yet talk about how they produce the greatest dogs out there. It leads to the question, if their dogs are so great, then why don't they compete with them? It has become a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a similar trend with "trainers".


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I agree with you, mycobraracr....
In regards to FullForce kennel, I've trained with him, have seen quite a few dogs from his breedings(not just one litter but a few different breedings), the current litter on the ground has a nice pedigree. He does title his own dogs as well. If I didn't have a pup right now, I'd be very interested in one from this litter. 
Stanislaus should check their spelling, especially when it comes to the dogs they are using for breeding.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I agree with you, mycobraracr....
> In regards to FullForce kennel, I've trained with him, have seen quite a few dogs from his breedings(not just one litter but a few different breedings), the current litter on the ground has a nice pedigree. He does title his own dogs as well. If I didn't have a pup right now, I'd be very interested in one from this litter.


Hey Jane - the dogs that you've seen from FullForce kennel's breedings - are they comparable to what the OP was looking for? If they are repeating success throughout their breeding program, that would be a good indicator that the OP could find what they are looking for.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Lilie said:


> Hey Jane - the dogs that you've seen from FullForce kennel's breedings - are they comparable to what the OP was looking for? If they are repeating success throughout their breeding program, that would be a good indicator that the OP could find what they are looking for.


 FULLForce understands pedigree matching, he is selective in who he breeds to. The pups I've seen in training are biddable, great in tracking and very strong in protection. They do more than IPO exercises. The OP should talk to Jeremy, and not just decide thru 3rd party opinions, regardless.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*I have only one thing to say to all of those whose posts I have removed; GROW UP!! 

Anymore and I will put you all on suspension without warning. 

ADMIN Lisa


*


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

mycobraracr said:


> :thumbup: Personally I want to see breeders that are not only titling dogs, but titling there own bred dogs. I keep seeing breeders who only trial imported dogs, yet talk about how they produce the greatest dogs out there. It leads to the question, if their dogs are so great, then why don't they compete with them? It has become a pet peeve of mine. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a similar trend with "trainers".


I agree - it annoys me when someone breeds and breeds, but continues to buy trained dogs for themselves to trial and compete with...or gets a bunch of dogs and starts breeding without putting in a few years training and learning....

Personally - I don't know if I can ever manage to title another dog....body too damaged and literally screwed together after an accident....but I continue to work my youngsters and have a few out with people on co-owns for titling....I want to, but am not sure I can even walk a whole ob pattern  I have titled a few dogs - and have a 4th generation female I hope to get titled...I won't ever be competitive, but not due to the caliber of the dog - but to my own handicaps.

Unfortunately - there are probably less than a dozen breeders in the country who title dogs they breed and raise.....

Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> I agree - it annoys me when someone breeds and breeds, but continues to buy trained dogs for themselves to trial and compete with...or gets a bunch of dogs and starts breeding without putting in a few years training and learning....
> 
> Personally - I don't know if I can ever manage to title another dog....body too damaged and literally screwed together after an accident....but I continue to work my youngsters and have a few out with people on co-owns for titling....I want to, but am not sure I can even walk a whole ob pattern  I have titled a few dogs - and have a 4th generation female I hope to get titled...I won't ever be competitive, but not due to the caliber of the dog - but to my own handicaps.
> 
> ...


though, you do have years of experience, and pedigree knowledge. How to match them. I am not a 'title chaser' buyer, but am more of a buyer of those that do work, do train, title when able and know what they are breeding is worthy to reproduce. Dependent on the venue of that persons program, whether IPO, SDA, PSA, SAR, or guide dogs. 
Those that are breeding don't always look at the sport titles first, they look at the total dog and foundation behind that dog...no?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I left out "couple of" before dozen!

Thanks Jane - there is a definite advantage to having trained and bred generations of a female family - I know Lisa is the same....


Lee


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