# Saving Georgia Dogs



## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

First kudos to Southern Cross for doing amazing work with her limited funds and help. She has always tried to help when we were in a pickle.
I write this with frustration of our last few attempts to help the Georgia dogs who need and deserve to be rescued. 
Being that we are located "up north" alot of shelters and rescue people seem to think we are unable to properly care for any dogs we put our name on. Being that we are a "White" gsd rescue people usually assume we rescue only whites which is untrue and they also assume that we would be the rescue group who goes after specifically the whites, which we do also. So my question is why do other rescues and shelters not seem to think we would not follow through on any dog we commit to?
We have had dogs taken right out of our hands by other rescues, told yes we would have them and are given to someone else. The politics of doing rescue in some southern states are unbelievable. To us we just want to save dogs. 
We fully vet our dogs b4 transport, if they are unable to transport for medical reasons we keep them there until medically sound. We treat for Parvo, Heartworm, and any other aliments the dog may have as it is our commitment to them once we put our name to them. 
Unfortunately we will be looking elsewhere to save gsd's as it shouldnt be so hard to give a dog a better life. We have one contact in Georgia who has been very helpful and will work with her solely.
Thanks for listening.


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## Jazy's mom (Jan 5, 2004)

I don't think you are the only one that this happens to. A KY rescue has done the same thing to Southern Cross. SC commit to a dog in a KY shelter and now the shelter is sending the dog to a no kill shelter in Mass.

I know that many shelters in GA do not allow you to pull from a GA shelter unless you have a GA "license" (I don't think this is the correct term, but basically you have to be in GA).

I also think the distance may play a part in this. Many shelters in the south have been burned because rescues from out of state say they will take a dog, but then can not arrange pull and transport. I am not saying that your rescue has done this, but one bad apple can spoil it for the rest of us.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

I am slightly offended by your post (not in defense of the shelters, but the overall opinion on "Georgia" dogs, shelters, rescues, etc.). Note: I don't have any "hard feelings" personally towards you, but I did want to voice my opinion as to WHY Georgia shelters might be standoffish. 

"Being that we are located "up north" alot of shelters and rescue people seem to think we are unable to properly care for any dogs we put our name on."

On the contrary, many responsible and knowledgeble pet owners in Georgia (and the southern states) aren't concerned about "up north" states' ability to care for animals and know, for the most part, that you guys are more than able to care for the animals. Where the problem comes into play is we read a lot of posts created by the more activist-like "rescue" groups in the area that say "do NOT allow dogs to go north," and that "northern rescues sell their dogs." Another one I read was, "don't allow dogs to go north, they are bunchers." Okay, as we know, that's not true.

Note, I said "activist-like" rescue groups...not all rescue groups.

We have quite a few "rescue groups" here in Georgia that have tactics and members that remind me of a certain animal activist group. Some of these "rescues" go as far as picking up "strays" (that have valid tags on them), remove their collar, and "adopt" the dog out at their adoption programs or advertise them on Craigslist through their "rescue." 

Frankly, if the animal shelters in the South can have their dogs pulled by rescues in the South, what does it matter who gets the dog? It's not a competition among rescues. 

Usually time is of the essence with most of these dogs, and I know that some shelters have been burned by rescues in the past from other states that "put their claim" on a dog, and then they never follow through with pick up and/or the rescue never contacts them to make other arrangements. 

I know that I did a pull for a German Shepherd for a northern rescue, and when it came time for the dog to be picked up, no one came. I contacted the rescue who told me their "foster home fell through," and they "didn't have room for her." So here I was stuck with a dog that I voluntarily pulled thinking (and with verification from the director) she would be picked up after I had pulled her and kept her a few hours until transport arrived.

I have nothing against North versus South rescues, but like the above poster said (while I was typing my response - lol), one bad apple can spoil it for the bunch.

P.S. myoung, I like the rescue you are the coordinator for's photo on the "Adoption" page of the little boy and the WGSD


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## lsoilm1936 (Dec 28, 2003)

I totally agree that it should NEVER be a competition about who gets a dog. But the reality is that there ARE rescues in the south who appear to think this is all about numbers (not just GSD rescues either). I am not going to say much more, because I can only speculate about what happened in the case that White Paws is referring to - I have no proof. However, I was very upset to learn that the shelter let them go as they did.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: lsoilm1936But the reality is that there ARE rescues in the south who appear to think this is all about numbers (not just GSD rescues either).


Those are the rescues I call "activist-like." Basically, if this were a playground, they'd be the ones pushing ahead of all the other kids in a rude manner.


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## Jazy's mom (Jan 5, 2004)

It just blows me away that a southern rescue would not want a dog to go to a rescue up north considering the number of dogs in need in the south. There are not enough of us in the south to take care of all of the dogs in need.

If I can help send a dog up north to a reputable rescue, then I figure that leaves me room to help another one in need. Thank god, for the north rescues that help with the south dogs even with all the logistical problems this can sometimes present.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

Because I don't know the background of the rescue that started this original post, I can just say, I also don't understand why some rescues don't want dogs leaving the South. They tend to use a lot of scare tactics in their e-mails, group postings, etc. as well. 

*shakes head*

To whomever was spurned by a Georgia rescue or a shelter (myoung?) I am so very sorry. It just makes the rest of us Georgians (native or not) look ignorant, arrogant, and petty.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

I recently moved to Texas from Michigan, and things are different down here. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a different country! People are nice, but SOME (please note the emphasis) seem to be a little weary of non-Texans...I think that people just think differently in different parts of the country (not that it's a bad thing), and maybe the shelters you're trying to rescue from don't feel like they have enough rapport to trust your shelter.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I spend most of my time working on southern animal rescues...on southern animal forums...working WITH southern rescues and shelters...and I've never heard anything derogatory about northern rescues. Quite frankly...the animal epidemic is more prevelent in the southern states...and rescues in the area just cannot handle it all themselves. They welcome northern help greatly. We are inundated with requests...and offers to drive the animals up here to the North fully sponsored....just for the chance to get into one of our rescues. (quite frankly...there needs to be an even greater push for public awareness and laws changed in southern states...because sending dogs north is just a band aid) 

Sadly the biggest problem with alot of these shelters is...they just don't care who gets the animals. It's first come first served in many. It's who picks the winning ticket in the lottery drawing. Animals leave unspayed...unneutered...only to perpetuate the cyle. 

Rules need to be changed. (one...being that shelters will only let a rescue with a GA license pull...which quite frankly...only means that rescues are going to find another rescue to pull for them...or send someone to outright adopt...which means in the end...the shelter really doesn't know where the dog ended up. I would think they would rather know? so they could fully check out the REAL place the dog is going to?) Shelters need to become more rescue friendly....and care more about where that dog is going..or who is adopting....not who got there first. 

(This does not apply to every shelter...some are really trying...but there are many many that are not)


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: myamomI would think they would rather know? so they could fully check out the REAL place the dog is going to?


Unfortunately, economics do come into play here, and they always have. Several of the shelters just don't have the money or public support to be able to check on each and every dog that comes in. For them it's merely hand over cash, sign a piece of paper, take dog home (usually not vetted). 

Not saying that northern shelters have it any easier, but there is a vast economic difference between the North and the South. 

And, as myamom also said, "sometimes, they just don't care."


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I am going to let this continue with a warning...... Watch any personal insults.

As a side note: I received a PM from a southern rescue about some questions on another northern rescue not "White Paws" offering to help. The questions were in the field of Don't you guys have any GSD's to rescue up there, my answer is that our shelters are not over run with GSD's, but if you want a beagle or Lab we have a lot of those and in bigger cities some bullie breeds.

I think at times rescue groups up here align themselves with shelters and it makes it difficult or impossible for any other group to get a dog, even if the first rescue doesn't have an opening. So there are some political problems probably like most area's. 

But GSD's aren't/weren't the most popular breed in this area. There are not a lot of GSD Breeders in the State and the majority of the BYB is Lab or beagle breeds.

So I think that at times people over look us "UP" here because they think we are in the same situation with an over load of GSD's in shelters. 

Val


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

I do not mean to offend you Southern Thistle. I know the need in Georgia is great. We want to help! Myamom has in her usual way put her shelter work in focus for us to see and understand. Thanks Marianne.
A dog should not be put up for lottery. We just want to save dogs but its just not easy in Georgia for us. We were told the reason we did not get the sad poor young Mange boy down there was because we were up north. Transport would not be good. We knew that. We had the foster and vetting set up to go to take care of him. We did not get him as they decided to go with local.
Any rescue person down there has their hands full and I applaud everything you do.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

I don't think there are any personal insults, and I think we're all mature enough not to list/state any particular incidents/rescue names. 

I know that there are SO many German Shepherds in shelters down here, and until the public is educated, and that education "sticks," they will continue to be mass-produced









Maybe some of the smaller rescues/smaller shelters don't know about northern (or any other regional) rescues willing to help? Maybe they don't understand how pulls and transports work for them? I don't know, but it wouldn't hurt to ask the smaller shelters, too. 

Like I said, and I'm sure you guys know this already, but education is the key for all involved: residents, rescues, and shelters.


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## lakota757 (Apr 10, 2008)

I still am puzzled Ky and Baron. S Cross committed to Baron several days before the Mass humane society did and they still chose to transport north and to a humane society rather than a rescue. The shelter said they can get transport north, but it is hard to get it to the south. Still they knew S Cross was working on transport and it was almost complete. They never even bothered to notify S Cross of their decision.
I would think a rescue would be a much better situation than a humane society. There is something missing in this puzzle some where.


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## wsumner26 (Jan 27, 2006)

> Quote:We have had dogs taken right out of our hands by other rescues, told yes we would have them and are given to someone else. The politics of doing rescue in some southern states are unbelievable. To us we just want to save dogs.


This is very true. We are in Ga. and the same thing happens to us, especially when it is a younger adoptable dog.


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## lakota757 (Apr 10, 2008)

I want to add too..I so had hoped the Lavonia dogs would have went to White Paws rescue. I would have known for sure they were going to some place where they would have been taken care of and I knew WP would have made sure they got the best home possible!! Thank you to WP for all you do!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Working on the shelter side of this, several things spring to mind. And this is NOT aimed at White Paws nor does it address the Baron situation (about which I am also quite perplexed), just generally about working with rescue groups and sending out dogs.

1. Screening: Working with a new group is time consuming. It takes a fair amount of effort to even try to check them out and when you do, you still don't know for sure where that dog is going to end up. Sending out a dog to what you thought was a better life only to find out later it was adopted to someone straight off the van with no vetting or worse, starved to death or suffered with a hoarder will haunt you forever and yet, I'd hazard a guess that ANY shelter who sends out a lot of dogs WILL send a dog to a bad place at least once and probably many times. You screen the best you can, but somehow someone always seems to get through. And for those outside rescue - bad rescues are EXTREMELY common. They are not rare. I'd always rather send to someone I feel like I "know" and trust than send to a new group if I have the choice.

2. Logistics. Getting the dogs temp tested, to a vet, onto a transport etc is very time consuming. You tend to prefer to work with groups who can either provide their own person on the ground or who will help you find help. At a minimum, you prefer to work with someone who understands what you're up against and the time constraints you're under. Lots of groups will send a 4 page temp test to the shelter as a condition of taking the dog. Most shelters don't have time to fool with that. Even if they understand why the group needs the info, logistically speaking, they just don't have time - they're going to send the dog to someone who doesn't require it. 

3. Transport. A LOT of rescues ask the shelter to help with or even provide transport. Well, that adds up! You can't always drive every dog everywhere. And yet, when you refuse, you get screamed at for not helping. I'm sure the people screaming are thinking "come on! It's one 30 minute drive (or whatever) and it saves the dog!" But they're not seeing the big picture which is that 30 minutes is amplified many times over all the other dogs and cats you've got to work on too and that this same situation repeats every single week. At some point, it's got to be okay for you to say no and take your kid to the park or go to the grocery store or something. 

Many groups also don't understand just how isolated some of these shelters are either, or how chronically overstretched the same group of helpers is.

Example - last weekend we got in a purebred Boston Terrier puppy with a prolapsed rectum to the shelter I work with. I sent pictures of the dog and a blurb explaining the situation out to my BT contacts. I SPECIFICALLY said that the biggest problem was that the dog was 2.5 hours from any available veterinary care and we desperately needed someone to collect it from the shelter ASAP and take it to a vet. I got at least 4 responses from groups hundreds of miles away saying that they would gladly take the dog, all I had to do was get it to a vet and then help them with transport to them.







This helped me not at all. It was a HIGHLY adoptable dog. Once it was to a vet, finding rescue would have been no problem. I needed someone who could go to the shelter and take it from there. 

A lot of rescue groups, and I'm sorry, but they're nearly always out of area, think it's somehow productive to call shelters and cuss them out for not caring enough and not doing a good enough job. Even when that's somewhat justified, and usually it's not, it just makes the whole situation worse! When has being cursed out by a stranger ever made you want to do better? Especially not when you're already at the end of your rope? 

IMO, the biggest problem is not lack of understanding on the part of the shelters about how it works, it's lack of understanding on the part of the rescues in areas who don't have problems like we do about what we're up against. IF a shelter even has someone to help with rescue coordination, chances are that person has another 150 dogs she's also working on besides the GSD of interest, is trying to put together transports, drive the first leg herself, and get the dogs all vetted before then. More than likely she's got a house full of her own fosters as well. And that's IF there's a person like that to begin with. Many southern shelters/pounds just have one or two staffpeople who are totally overworked just trying to keep up with their county mandate - to collect, hold, and dispose of unwanted animals. While we'd all love to see fewer of the animals dying, rescue coordination may be outside what that person can do. 

Now, for anyone still reading (gold star!), there are MANY wonderful rescuers and receiving groups who DO get it and I thank heavens every day that they exist because nearly 100% of the dogs that come into shelters down here would die without them. The happy tails and follow up pictures they send us are proudly plastered on the walls of the shelter and looking at them gives the staff the strength to keep going. I think shelters and rescuers can work wonderfully together, it mainly just takes understanding on both sides. The only reason I'm putting so much of the burden on the receiving groups is that in many cases there isn't any flexibility on the shelter end because the system is already so stressed to the max.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Just wanted to add re GA specifically - I totally agree with Mary Ann that the GA license rule is more of a hinderance than a help. I guess it was intended to make sure the dogs went to legitimate groups but all it really does is encourage people to subterfuge in an attempt to save the dog. I would MUCH rather know exactly where the dog is REALLY going to end up.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Well, I am not a "rescue person"-- but I do help out when I can. So if any (approved/reputable, etc) rescue needs help pulling/transporting a dog from my little area of Georgia, I am more than willing


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

Thank you Mary!! That is one of our biggest problems...lack of people on the ground to help in GA.


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## MollyM (Feb 4, 2004)

Nice thoughts but I think that the licensing was really thought up as a way of bringing more revenue into the Dept. of AG. It costs each rescue $100 to $200 each year to renew our license on top of yearly registration fees to keep our Non Profit Status with the State of Georgia active. There are only 12 inspectors for the entire state and they are expected to oversee rescues as well as breeding kennels, pet stores and crack down on puppy mills.

Georgia also has a special license plate that can be purchased each year with a part of the profits going to help with low cost Spay/Neuter. I have tried to track those funds for years and there is never a real explanation of where a good deal of this money goes. Instead of going to really help with Spay/Neuter a large part is eaten up with "administrative" costs. It basically helps subsidize Dept. of AG which controls Georgia's Agribusiness that brings in billions of dollars a year to the State of Georgia

Until you have lived in the South you can't really appreciate what it is like here - for someone like myself that grew up in the NE it really is a strange and foreign land.


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## Jazy's mom (Jan 5, 2004)

I have lived my entire life in the south and I still think it "is a strange and foreign land" when it comes to animal issues.

Molly, I think you are right. The license is probably just another way to generate income for the state.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: MollyM
> Georgia also has a special license plate that can be purchased each year with a part of the profits going to help with low cost Spay/Neuter. I have tried to track those funds for years and there is never a real explanation of where a good deal of this money goes. Instead of going to really help with Spay/Neuter a large part is eaten up with "administrative" costs.


I wondered the same thing as I never heard any shelters saying, "because of the sale of the license plates, we were able to S&N X number of animals."


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: myamomThank you Mary!! That is one of our biggest problems...lack of people on the ground to help in GA.


There are more than enough people "on the ground" in Georgia willing to help and have offered to help, but their offers are never taken.









I know that we (with rescue references from past transports) responded (on another forum) regarding "immediate transport needed" for a dog from a rural Georgia shelter to Johnson City, TN. The dog could be pulled, no one to transport. We offered to drive the dog, ourselves, all the way to Johnson City. 

We got a "thanks for your offer," but the "we still need transport!" posts kept posting and posting and posting. About four days after the initial post, the rescue....in Johnson City, TN said, "well we can't take this boy in because we can't find transport."


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

Our issue has never been transport. If you look at the transport section you will see the many, many runs we have coming out of the south. Our needs have always been pull and temp foster or rescue boarding. Its usually a 2 wk turnaround to get them up here.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

I think there are bad apple rescue/shelters and good apple rescue/shelters no matter where you look. 

The "activist-like" rescues of which I spoke earlier are almost cult-like. They only let "their own kind" do ANYTHING so if any outsiders offer help, they ignore.

I think it's crappy that a shelter denied a pull to an out-of-state rescue for sole reasons of geography.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Thank you. Like myoung I am also affiliated with White Paws. 

My thought is it would not take much time to do a bit of research on White Paws, and make the decision that this might be the best group you can find to place a dog with, especally those dogs that might not be perfectly healthy. 

Perhaps myuong can post the pictures, but several months ago we took a dog named Casper. Casper's stomach was literally ripped open from tail to throat. Her insides had spilled out of her. The guy that had the dog constructed a barbed wire fence for a cage, and Casper got hung up in it. White Paws took the dog, and with the help of a wonderful vet, the animal was put back together, and adopted by a couple from Maine. 

My point is, White Paws is one of the best GSD rescues in the country, and with a bit of research people would realize that.

Wisc Tiger mentioned that for whatever reason there are far less German Shepherds to rescue locally then from our southern states. I have no idea why, but can tell you my daighter works for the Milwaukee/Ozaukee Humane Society and they get very few German Shepherds. And, the GSD's they get are adopted almost immediately.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: Our needs have always been pull and temp foster or rescue boarding. Its usually a 2 wk turnaround to get them up here.


That's a HUGE obstacle for most shelters though. Unless a receiving rescue is willing to pay for boarding, we can't even consider sending dogs to groups who need dogs held like that. And of course for a lot of shelters getting the dogs transported to a boarding facility is a hurdle as well

We've also been burned quite a few times by finding temp holds for dogs (not for White Paws, just in general) and then transports don't fill and someone who only volunteered for a short term foster finds themselves stuck with a dog for another week. Similarly, I know several people who have gotten into trouble because dogs weren't collected from the vet clinics or boarding facilities and the places holding the dogs held the shelter responsible. 

I'm not saying people shouldn't be trying to help out of area dogs - thank goodness they do! Just that it can be logistically difficult on both sides. I can't spend 5 hours on logistics for every dog - I'm much more likely to put the time into working on a large pull which takes the same amount of time but saves more lives. I think that's why sometimes small breed rescues feel like they get short shrift and the dogs are sent to larger all-breed groups. I actually DON'T do that, I will try to send the dog wherever it's going to get the best care, and often that is a small breed specific group, but it does get tricky. you are often faced with these Sophie's choices about how best to spend your time and money.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I agree with Timber1 that it is pretty easy to check out certain groups like White Paws. 
When WPs offered to take in a dog from this area, I made a few calls and emails to rescue people I had worked with before to check them out. Everything checked out, and White Paws was wonderful, easy to work with, Maureen was great, and they DID what they SAID.
The shelters I have pulled from in this area are VERY happy to work with northern rescues.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Having people like you willing to make those calls and check out groups makes all the difference in the world to shelters who don't have the time or the staff. Thanks!


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