# Pepto



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

First of all, if I am posting this in the wrong section, please forgive!
Last night I cooked up some ground turkey to add to Z's kibble, which is Kirkland Signature Chicken and rice. I feel terrible now because I have known he has a sensitive tummy, but I honestly thought it would be bland enough for him to tolerate with ease, but he woke me 3x's thru the night to go out and had diarrhea each time. He has been out twice this morning and is still trying to 'go' altho I haven't seen any more coming out. So my question is can/should I give him a little bit of pepto and will it help with the diarrhea? There will definitely be no more turkey added from now on and I desperately want to make him feel better as quick as possible. I feel horrible for this!


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## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Im not sure about the Pepto but you could just give him some Oatmeal until his stomach straightens up. I have done this and it works the turkey might just have to works its way thru his system.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: SashmomIm not sure about the Pepto but you could just give him some Oatmeal until his stomach straightens up. I have done this and it works the turkey might just have to works its way thru his system.


Thank you for the quick reply! I will try the oatmeal!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Give him at least 12 hours after the last of the diarrhea before trying to give him anything to eat. The fact that he's still trying to go means that his system is still very upset and any more food will just make it worse. As the actual diarrhea seems to have stopped, I wouldn't give any Pepto or anything else at this time. Depending on what you've found that he can handle, I would start him back on a bland diet for a meal or two just to make sure that everything is working right again before putting him back on the kibble.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Dogs can have pepto.Whether it will work or not I can't say.They get 1tsp per 5lbs or 1/4 pill per 20lbs.I also give immodium AD and for Athena she get 1 pill.Good luck


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

The only thing he has successfully eaten with no probs is scrambled eggs. Other than that he only eats his kibble without problems. At this point I worry about giving him the egg too. I will wait the 12 hours and see how he is. 

Thanks!!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: AllieGDogs can have pepto.Whether it will work or not I can't say.They get 1tsp per 5lbs or 1/4 pill per 20lbs.I also give immodium AD and for Athena she get 1 pill.Good luck


 Oh I never thought about Immodium AD!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I agree with Elaine. His body is trying to expell what has upset it, so you don't want to stop it. Next I agree with the fasting, no food, just make sure he is drinking. Then go with a bland diet and slowly bring back the kibble. 

Was there skin on the Turkey? The reason I ask is turkey is usually pretty well tolerated unless there is a problem with your dog and fats.

Val


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Would the Pepto or Immodium coat the stomach and help it settle?It doesn't always stop the diarrhea especially if he isn't going anymore.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

No skin...just ground turkey. I browned it. Fed about 3-4 tablespoons with the kibble. 

He is resting now, but I have to step out for a minute and when I do I imagine he will follow. I will watch him closely to see what he does and will report back. I do think I will give him the day to recoup without meds then gradually get him back to norm


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Ok...he did have just a tad of watery diarrhea this time-seems to be the end is in sight. I am letting him rest. Throwing the left over turkey away and will not be altering his diet again! This is miserable for him. Later this afternoon, I will hose down the yard. 

_I am kicking myself for this!!_


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Imodium is the trick. It works. It DOES NOT stop them up - it corrects the imbalance in the intestines. 

Good luck. With sensitive German shepherds, if something doesn't upset their tummy, don't mess with it!

Don't feel bad, I'll admit I've done it before - but the good news is the dog still loves me.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

How long does it take to correct the imbalance?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Awww Doc!! Thank you







At least I know I am not the only one who has done this. Glad your dog still loves you







I think I have finally learned my lesson! I just don't understand why he is so sensitive. Especially with ground turkey because I heard it was bland. maybe he just can't handle too much protien? Either way, I am done trying to feed extra stuff. He can eat kibble quite well with no adverse affects. He was actually gaining weight. I have come to the conclusion that my vets scale is not calibrated correctly-everywhere else he is close to 60# but at my vet is only 55#


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I have used Immodium, but unless you have tested your dog for the mutant MRI gene then you could be playing with fire. It seems that this gene is popping up more often and giving Immodium to a dog with the Mutant MRI can be deadly. So deadly verses upset tummy and diahhrea I will deal with the upset tummy and the diahhrea.

Val


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Wisc Tiger...that is good to know!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: AllieGWould the Pepto or Immodium coat the stomach and help it settle?It doesn't always stop the diarrhea especially if he isn't going anymore.


The pepto will. It also has some anti-bacterial effects I believe, as well as anti-inflammatory. This would be my first choice if the stomach gets to the point that it can hold no more food, a day or so after onset. I agree about not stopping things up.

Immodium can cause problems with the mdr1 mutation, and will not allow the body to eliminate in a way that it should. It works, but I would opt for pepto before this.

I would go with charcoal caps before either of them actually.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

It is almost 1pm for me here. Z had the diarrhea for about 12 hrs and that worried me so I went to the store and got Pepto, Imodium AD and Pedialite to restore electrolytes. I decided to give him the Pepto, because the Imodium worried me since he has not had that test for the mutant MRI gene. I offered the Pedialite but he didn't drink any. He wanted to play so we did but I limited it to 10 minutes. Then he cooled off in the pool(wading pool). Before we played I made sure the yard was hosed down and since he is afraid of the hose, he hid n his doghouse while I hosed the yard. I think he is feeling better but will keep a close eye on him for at least the next 24 hrs.(not that I don't ever keep a close eye)

I want to say a HUGE thank you to every one who offered advice!!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Lisa, Sorry I didn't see your post before I had made my decision and ran to the local walgreens. Glad I went with the Pepto. It was my first instinct. Maybe I really am learning something after all


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Guess he is feeling Mucho better-frolicking in the pool and running in the yard like nothing happened. It has been about 2 hrs since his last bout of the runs, and one and a half hours since I gave him Pepto! He is currently outside the front door, but I won't let him in because he won't stay out of the water...LOL


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I have done this as well, Dozer and bully sticks do not agree even though he LOVES them! Always has the runs after. The vet told me to mix in some sticky plain white rice when he does with his food and it does the trick.


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm glad he is feeling better.I think I am going to give the Pepto to Athena also.I didn't realize that about the gene and of course my vet is the one who said to give her Immodium.I am most likely on the lookout for a new vet anyway.Good luck this weekend I think I'm going to set up the pool too since I am gone all day t.omorrow and she is home with boring daddy.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

AllieG,
I had to laugh at the boring daddy thing! 
Z loves his pool, even tho when I first filled it up last weekend he was nervous about setting foot in it! 

Apparently the pepto worked wonders, thank goodness. It was so hard to watch him go out there with the runs all night and morning and my guilt was horrendous! Never in a million years did I think ground turkey would make him so miserable! Of course, I came here for advice and never thought about calling the vet







but I get such good advice here that it has become my source for all things good








Have a great weekend!


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

You too.I hope Athena's runs don't get that bad like a month ago.It was worse than having a baby again,every hour we were out to do her business.It went on all weeknd till I finally got the good vet to do bloodwork and give her a shot of a few things to plug her up.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Check how much fat is in the ground turkey - I know that cooked turkey skin can cause pancrentitis in dogs, I wonder if ground turkey is also high in fat


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ZissoOf course, I came here for advice and never thought about calling the vet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's kinda funny and sad at the same time!!

But we are pretty good at knowing when to say go to the vet too. I bet you would have known, particularly if the pepto didn't work, or the issue came back.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I am aware of this mutant gene. Has anyone ever idendentified the mutant gene in German shepherds? I have read no reports of it in GSD. Oter breeds are effective - particularly Collies. 

I'm happy the Pepto worked but someone out there will tell you not to use it because of some ingrediant in it (bismuth or asprin?). There is always keopectatate but I assume it is not good either? You can go the pumpkin route - not pie filling but regular pumpkin - about a tablespoon. And then you can let it run its course and pray he doesn't get dehydrated.

Sticky rice and chicken works for me.

I would mix the pedilite in his water bowl. My dogs perfer Gatoraid. Since Peto did the job - keep it on hand. At some point he will go through the runs again.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Very true Lisa! I have seen many times here when you have all told someone to get to the vet ASAP...and it is sad that my first thought was here not the vet right down the road. I think my instincts are improving as time goes by-of course a lot of that comes from spending an enormous amount of time here reading and learning. 

Barb-I just threw away the package today and to be honest, am not up to dumpster diving...LOL but when I cooked it, it was very dry I think in terms of how hamburger is made this would be extra lean; there was no moisture when I was browning it so I had to watch it real close and stir it constantly. I just know I won't be adding anything to his kibble any more...poor guy had to miserable! He is already showing signs of firmer stools. Has eaten kibble. Wants to play. And Play....I say rest and rest


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Doc...yes, I did get a little scared about that mutant gene and our lack of being tested so I went with Pepto - of course there must be something in there that is not good for them







I plan on keeping it on hand because I know he is bound to get it again. I did look at Kaopectate at the store, but thought I might be going overboard...LOL...I forgot about Gatoraide!! dang it! I have had that work wonders before. I did sneak some perdialite into his water dish, but he hasn't touched it since...would rather drink his dirty pool water all of a sudden...what a stinker he can be...Literally


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm still waiting to see reports of it being identified in German shepherds. I have used Imodium for years with German shepherds. I guess I am lucky - no adverse effects so far. And have not heard of any adverse effects in German shepherds. I may switch to Pepto. I don't like it because it makes me ..... well ... let's just say I call it a pink rubber ball in liquid form - it hits the stomach then bounces right back out! LOL


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Let's be clear about this - there is no aspirin in pepto, although that has been stated before. The form of bismuth does act as an anti-inflammatory. You can probably google pepto and aspirin. 

ETA: re the mutation. It was thought to be only in white GSDs, but we have a classic looking GSD on the board with the mutation. You must of missed that thread, she was very sick.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Wow, my post sounds a bit snippy - not my intention!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have an aussie who is mutant/mutant for the MDR1 gene, which means , she carries the gene, she would pass it on if bred, and the long list of 'no no' drugs could literally kill her. 

There is a pretty updated list of no no drugs on http://www.busteralert.org. I've had my 2 of my gsd's tested and both were normal/normal. 

While it may not be prevailant in GSD's, it's there, since it's not well known, (I had to educate my vet), how many people would even think to test their gsd's for it? probably not many..Mostly seen in collies/shelties and 1/3 of all aussies carry the gene in one form or another. 

Loperamide which is in Immodium is a big no no for mdr1 dogs. Not sure it's in pepto, I've never looked, but I do not give it to my aussie just to be on the safe side. 

All dogs are different, even if a dog is an mdr1 dog, it could very well tolerate any of the "no no" drugs, but then again, I wouldn't be testing them on my aussie ) 

Just some fyi on the mdr1 gene ))


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JakodaCD OAJust some fyi on the mdr1 gene ))


And if anyone wants to check a new med, they should google the name of that med and also _p-glycoprotein substrate_. Though not all pgp substrate drugs cause a problem, all that do are such dugs, if that makes sense. (these are different than P-gp inhibitors!)

So if anyone's vet is using human med off-label, it's good to know how to check for a problem.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I think I will take my Imodium and go home ....


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

LOL, you can stay and play, but we just won't share your immondium









That being said, I recently did a hair analysis on the dogs. Indy came back high in bismuth. Now, for a dog that gets no pepto, how does she get too much bismuth? Aaargh, I always have more questions than answers.....


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DocI think I will take my Imodium and go home ....












As far as I am concerned, you can take the Pepto too! Now gratned this is for humans, but...



> Quote:This medication should not be given to a child or teenager who has a fever, especially if the child also has flu symptoms or chicken pox. Salicylates can cause a serious and sometimes fatal condition called Reye's syndrome in children. You should not use bismuth subsalicylate if you have a stomach ulcer, a recent history of stomach or intestinal bleeding, or if you are allergic to salicylates such as aspirin, Doan's Extra Strength, Salflex, Tricosal, and others.





> Quote:This medication can also cause you to have unusual results with certain medical tests, thyroid scans, or stomach x-rays. Tell any doctor who treats you that you have recently taken bismuth subsalicylate.





> Quote:You should not use bismuth subsalicylate if you have:
> a stomach ulcer;
> 
> a recent history of stomach or intestinal bleeding; or
> ...





> Quote:The following drugs can interact with bismuth subsalicylate. Tell your doctor if you are using any of these:
> 
> a blood thinner such as warfarin (Coumadin);
> 
> ...


http://www.drugs.com/mtm/pepto-bismol.html for humans

And for pets: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1303+1459&aid=1456 not as detailed (or as scary sounding) but has some details on it.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

You're right Jean, using none of that stuff is better, if it can be avoided. I've never used it in Max, and Indy had one, maybe two doses, once in her life, when she was very sick and eating no solid food for a week, and it was under vet instructions (her holistic/homeopathic vet no less).


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

OK, maybe pumpkin is a less hazzardous material that can do the job! I perfer mine in the pie form topped with real whipped cream. And yes, I'll share that wit you!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

As long as the whipped cream is real


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Now you're talking my language Lisa T! How do you suppose your dog got high bismuth levels in its hair?


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

For anyone who may want more information about the MDR1 mutant gene, here's the website for the Washington State University which has done a lot of research on the problem. They also do the DNA test for it.

Here's what they say about the breeds of dogs affected by the mutation: "Approximately 3 of every 4 Collies in the United States have the mutant MDR1 gene. The frequency is about the same in France and Australia, so it is likely that most Collies worldwide have the mutation. The MDR1 mutation has also been found in Shetland Sheepdogs (Shelties). Australian Shepherds, Old English Sheepdogs, *German Shepherds* , Long-haired Whippets, Silken Windhounds, and a variety of mixed breed dogs. "

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I can't believe this hasn't been said, but, CANNED PUMPKIN!!!!

Canned pumpkin for diarrhea, for constipation, for whatever ails them! lol. For diarrhea it will add fiber to firm it up, and for constipation add fiber to move it along! 

I have pepto and kaopectate on hand. I've never needed to go beyond canned pumpkin for diarrhea, but gave Tessa pepto on 2 occasions when her stomach was bothering her and she was moaning softly.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DocNow you're talking my language Lisa T!  How do you suppose your dog got high bismuth levels in its hair?


I can't tell you how much googling I've been doing to try to figure that out. It's a mystery. Everything says exposure to medication (pepto or zantac of all things) or cosmetics. Indy doesn't get drugs, and she wears no makeup!! I wear almost no makeup, so it's not from me either.

Max's were in the normal range, but higher than most of the other metals, so it makes me wonder if it's in a supplement. I'm thinking the calcium supplements (I use two different ones), but I can't find info. I've thought about emailing the companies, but heck, I'm sure they don't know that stuff, would they? I emailed the company that did the test, and so far no response (great service, eh?).

Btw, Max was just into the high range in Mercury. Looks like I will be addressing that.....


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## Dee Phillips (Nov 29, 2008)

I would just go simple no food 24 hours, then go to the puppy food he was on. Then go back to his normal food, i believe we try to fix things to fast with meds. To many unknowns raw or cooked,senior or another dog,I feed raw after 8 weeks and have never had a problem, just shop sales freeze and them do a meatball feast,freeze and give that to them. Gsd shoud not have a senative stomach they were breed to eat game so I would look to the dry food . IMOA


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

People always told me things were different in CA! I've never heard of high metals and minerals in dogs.

Just for my curiousity - what are you feeding and what supplements are you using. Maybe there is some overlap in the fed and supplements of certain materials? How about your water? Have you tested it? Now you have me wondering - and I don't like not having an answer.

Do your dogs eat dirt/soil?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thought I would check in on my thread and see there has been a lot of discussion so wanted to update you all. Zisso has actually settled down a great deal since his last bout with diarrhea on the 24th. I feed only the Kirkland Signature Chicken and Rice. When I want to give him a treat, it is home made. I finally managed to accept the fact that I can't feed him extra stuff, like the ground turkey. He is happy, content with what he gets and it makes life simple for us both







Thank you to everyone for your help. 

In the future, if I need, I will remember the pumpkin and give that a try.

LisaT, I sure hope you can resolve the issues with the metals and minerals.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DocPeople always told me things were different in CA! I've never heard of high metals and minerals in dogs.


**snicker** The test was actually run in Hawaii of all places!!



> Quote:Just for my curiousity - what are you feeding and what supplements are you using. Maybe there is some overlap in the fed and supplements of certain materials? How about your water? Have you tested it? Now you have me wondering - and I don't like not having an answer.
> 
> Do your dogs eat dirt/soil?


LOL, I don't like not having an answer either, particularly since the bismuth is high in one dog. The high Mercury, that could always be residual vaccine stuff, or maybe fish.

Max (mercury boy) sticks his nose in the dirt all the time. I've never seen him eat it. Bismuth girl eats no dirt.

I feed homecooked. Lots of steamed veggies for both dogs, Merc Boy gets lamb and salmon and sardines mostly, while Bismuth girl gets primarily pork and eggs with some salmon and sardines. It appears that it must be in something that they both get. I had thought about the calcium supplements. I have thought about maybe some of the canned food they get (the fish is mostly canned unless DH gets lucky fishing). They were on EVO canned several times a week (venison or rabbit), until their kidney values rose (they resolved after being taken off it).

The water is a good idea - I hadn't thought about that. Primarily bottled water (we have heavily chlorinated water here, Indy barks at it and won't drink it). I wonder if bismuth is used in plastics? The water is reverse osmosis water (presumably), either Costco brand, or Aquafina.

Any ideas welcome!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ZissoThought I would check in on my thread and see there has been a lot of discussion so wanted to update you all. Zisso has actually settled down a great deal since his last bout with diarrhea on the 24th. I feed only the Kirkland Signature Chicken and Rice. When I want to give him a treat, it is home made. I finally managed to accept the fact that I can't feed him extra stuff, like the ground turkey. He is happy, content with what he gets and it makes life simple for us both
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad that he's feeling better. So sorry for hijacking your thread...

So your boy is okay with chicken, but not turkey? Do you think it's the turkey or the fat from the ground meat?


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

LisaT-no prob on the thread thing..it actually made me feel better- I thought my threads were looked at as being lame...LOL

I am not really sure just what caused him to feel so runny after the turkey. I don't think it was fatty..it seemed to be quite lean. I think he is just a senstive guy. I just have to remember not to give him extra stuff. My last GSD (possibly a mix but I was never convinced) could eat anything with no trouble. Z is still young enough that it could be he just needs time...once he is older all of this may pass. This pic is after the pepto, when he finally calmed down:









Pic of my Lizzy:


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Salmon and sardines would be my first thought - particularly mercury. Some lab should be able to test a water sample - it may be cheaper going through the Department of Agriculture to have it tested. Bismuth has me stumped. I will research that ...

Bismuth Girl and Mercury Boy - sounds like a house band in a Grunge Club!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

While at the grocery store I looked at the ground Turkey cause I was curious









the "ground turkey" was 26% fat! the "ground WHITE turkey" was like 12% fat.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DocBismuth Girl and Mercury Boy - sounds like a house band in a Grunge Club!


They certainly don't sound like superheroes!!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ZissoLisaT-no prob on the thread thing..it actually made me feel better- I thought my threads were looked at as being lame...LOL
> 
> I am not really sure just what caused him to feel so runny after the turkey. I don't think it was fatty..it seemed to be quite lean. I think he is just a senstive guy. I just have to remember not to give him extra stuff. My last GSD (possibly a mix but I was never convinced) could eat anything with no trouble. Z is still young enough that it could be he just needs time...once he is older all of this may pass.


Awww, he looks so sweet and comfy there. Glad he was feeling better.

Lizzy looks mix to me, but I"m not good at that stuff.

Give Zisso an extra snuggle from me!


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

There's bismuth in flame retardant - couch? mattress?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: LJsMomThere's bismuth in flame retardant - couch? mattress?


Hmmm, seems like Max would be high then too?


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Is Max smoking it?????


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

LOL, maybe when I'm at work!


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