# 15wk old male GSD attacked by 3yr old male GSD - He's not the same



## Jeanne6629 (Oct 3, 2013)

Hello everyone, 

Long-winded post ahead.

My husband and I rescued what we think is likely a pure bred "American" German Shepherd from a local GSD rescue. We knew that without going to a reputable breeder, we were in for possible trouble (lack of confidence, weak nerves, etc.), but our puppy, Hunter, just seemed to be the one for us. 

And we were/are lucky. Hunter is a crazy GSD male with loads of energy, but boy is he SMART and he aims to please. He was walking well on a leash by 11 weeks and behaving off leash shortly thereafter. We've had him in 4 puppy training classes and he's doing wonderfully. He's been socialized with many dogs and children and people and everyone loves him. He only would bark outside our house (I've heard this is normal).

Two weeks ago, we were walking back from the park and were stopped by a man and his 3yr old GSD, who we found out had also been adopted from a local shelter. The older dog was VERY calm and sweet. Hunter went the sniff him (after 5 minutes of chatting no less) and out of nowhere, the dog attacked him and bit a hole right through his ear. The man was devastated and apologetic and said his dog had never done anything like that before.

It's two weeks later and Hunter has not been the same. He barks at EVERYTHING. We live in a city across from a daycare and he barks at the little kids and baby carriages and teeny dogs and garbage cans. He races ahead now and looks nervously around when we walk. If a dog barks at him he bolts. Any "alpha" status that my husband and I had seems to have vanished. He's been in a cone of shame, too, which makes him even less happy a camper.

1. Any possible explanation as to why this seemingly gentle dog would want to bite Hunter when Hunter has gotten along with every other dog he's met to date? We feel awful that perhaps we didn't read the signs?
2. What can we do to help Hunter be confident again and reestablish his faith in us as his leaders / parents? It's been so sad see this happen to him and we want to continue to socialize him as soon as possible.

Thank you so much.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Because the big dog didn't feel like being sniffed by a young'un. Dogs are not always nice to each other, and puppies sometimes get put in their place. 

Protect your dog. Keep interactions positive, only interact with dogs you know and you are sure won't do this. 

Relax and don't be anxious yourself. Your nervousness travels right down the leash. Go to places where *you* feel happy and confident, let him watch, but it is not necessary to have him interact. If he races ahead, do an about turn, with the happy voice, and lure him with a treat. Bring toys on walks. Keep them short and fun and always end on a good note. If he even starts to think of barking, distract him. 

And forget the alpha thing and become your dog's protector and benevolent leader. 
Good luck.


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## Jeanne6629 (Oct 3, 2013)

Thank you! I think the bite hit us in its own way and he's probably feeling our guilt and insecurity about the situation. Thank you for the tips on how to make the walk more positive. Seems we may have to take steps back to go bounds forward.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

YOU need to be calm and relaxed to take control and SHOW your puppy that the world is still a great place and you'll be there for him. Redirecting, getting the attention on you (food? toys) BEFORE your pup reacts with the fearful barking to keep the oncoming dog(s) away.

Lots you can do in the DVD 'Calming Signals' by Turid Rugaas to calm your pup. Vital to act early before your pup is overwhelmed and that DVD will show you the quiet calm early cues we humans miss.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Trauma like that can have a very long lasting an possibly permanent affect on the behavior of the dog. Its something you might consider board and train for to resolve but only at a place that has stable dogs your puppy can routinely interact with under a positive supervised environment so that the dog can get over that issue and regain some confidence in the world.

A good training class would also help, but whatever you do you should act on it soon while the dog is still young and pliable


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Try not to over-react when your dog over-reacts. Just tug on the leash and keep moving. Do not stop and let the dog get into his routine. A little tug and say, "it's only a dog," or kid or whatever, in a pleasant normal tone. 

Keep walking with your dog. He had a bad experience, but now he needs to get over it. No coddling. Protect him. No baby talk. And if you are nervous, suck on a mint. 

That might sound like weird advice, but many obedience people know that dogs key in on us. When we are nervous, our breath changes enough so our dogs can mark the change and sucking on a mint can make a difference. 

Keep your voice up beat, and happy, keep your pup moving. No nonsense. It's just a dog, and move on.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

That's why I don't do dog parks or do "I thought my dog was friendly folks"

Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea

If you have a good doggie and handle him right he can bounce back from this!

This was my approach with my people aggressive dog and the same approach with other dogs, his place was behind me, I decided who he met and what dogs saw him..the answer was none for the dogs.

Leerburg | Who Pets Your Puppy or Dog


Your life will be much simpler if you just adopt a ignore other dogs policy, treat other dogs like furniture just step aside or cross the street, no corrections just "move along.dog nothing to see here". Don't let other dogs get in his face! 

After awhile he will know that you have his back and other dogs are of no concern to him! If you have his back he'll have yours!


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

Sorry to hear that this happened - it's human error 100%. I've been through this before with my German Shepherd's and my wife's Brittany Spaniel Pitbull mix - 20 years ago -when my wife used to tease my German Shepherd's with her dog by saying go Gett'em - well one day it was the other way around as she let her guard down with all the dogs together and Spanky ended up with a hole in her ear - my female had her from the rear end and my male had her by the head and it was devastating for everybody.

Reiforce positive things - one never knows how the dog is going to react. I do not allow my puppy near anything that breathes that's not human !


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Yeah....not a good experience for a pup learning the world...but at times it happens. I agree with being one step ahead of game...a pup with another dog which you have no idea about...and both on leashes ( I assume )..sounds like a gamble...one I would stay away from...especially on leash. 

No doubt the new "posture" your pup has taken can be dealt with and corrected but going forward your posture can't be one of fear/trepidation when encountering other dogs.....I agree...dogs sense our fears and react to them in various ways....especially when we reinforce their own "fears" or incorrect behavior.

My current GSD was a bit too much dog aggressive or reactive on leash...off leash, she's no problem. Over a period of time, I have taken a mentality of " I will guide you through **** and back and will not falter one step"...and when I say this...I think one truly needs to exude this mentality..you must reek of it...no faking involved..your actions need to display this AND so does your gut....no faking as I said. Other dogs on walks are simply a fact of life..no special concern is required...the moment and I mean the moment I sense a change in her gait/posture/alert status/etc when it comes to another dog on a walk...I give her a simple.."leave it" and we proceed strong and proud..with a bit of a distraction thrown in for good measure. In the beginning, a series of 2-4 quick but fairly weak snaps on the prong collar sent the signal as well...and I ONLY did this if she put pressure on the leash...as long as she left slack there was no reason to tighten the leash on her and apply any corrections.

For the past few months, I purposely go out of my way on walks to encounter other dogs....and this is what I meant earlier...I truly believe I will guide her brightly and no other dog out there walking concerns me nor should it concern my dog.

You have a new project with your pup and as Chip18 stated "If you have a good doggie and handle him right he can bounce back from this!"..I completely agree. I also believe all the other replies are most certainly worthy and indeed helpful. This Baliff character () and his understanding of dogs has helped me with my current pup....as has others.... so as a disclaimer...I'm a rookie who is only stating his experiences.

SuperG


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## K9POPPY (Mar 6, 2014)

Chip18 pretty much says it all well, and the leer burg articles are totally on target.Some people are unaware of what their dog is capable of doing, especially in rescue situations. It is certainly an unfortunate situation, but you have gotten some excellent suggestions here- best thing to is just move on, keep it from happening again, and yes, don't let these other dogs get in his face. Yes, you will have to be his protector for now, for some dog owners are pretty ignorant when it comes to controlling their pets on leash. And forget about the free-for-all manner of dog parks, that's another whole set of potential problems. I think with time and a lot of reassurance your dog will recover very quickly. Like I said, ALOT of great advice before you here, and I am sure you can get awesome support for your pup-


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

YOU have to move past this. Like everyone said about being a fun confident leader on the walk, your pup will feel this. A training group with other young dogs will really boost his confidence that not everydog he meets is going to bite him on the ear. And yes, the cone is part of the problem. He only needs it when your watching him. Good luck and kiss his little head.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

selzer said:


> Try not to over-react when your dog over-reacts. Just tug on the leash and keep moving. Do not stop and let the dog get into his routine. A little tug and say, "it's only a dog," or kid or whatever, in a pleasant normal tone.
> 
> Keep walking with your dog. *He had a bad experience, but now he needs to get over it*. No coddling. Protect him. No baby talk. And if you are nervous, suck on a mint.


This. I had the same situation happen when Eli was 12 weeks old. It was a 1.5 yo GSD who we had met before. I stopped to talk with the owner and the dog attacked. No idea why, but he did. I had to pull him off of my puppy. After that we stopped visiting dogs on leash and I took him to as many places as I could that he could watch dogs go by - parks, vet clinic, busy streets etc... Eli was definately concerned about dogs after that (no barking though, just cautious) but the most important thing was how I reacted. You MUST remain calm, relaxed and in control. Your puppy needs to believe you will protect him, that he does not need to worry. So we would just sit at a bench at the park and watch the world go by. Have treats, have a chewie, play some games. If people came up with their dogs I would tell them we do *not* visit on leash but try to engage in conversation with the owner. And I let him visit with dogs I trusted so he could gain the confidence back. It did not take long and he is 4.5 years old now with no lasting impressions of his puppyhood attack.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

Quite honestly, the other dog 'attacking' your pup might not have brought on this new phase. A lot of puppies go through fear periods. I usually stop socialization during the worst part of a fear stage. I do a lot of in home training and if I take the puppy somewhere, it's to an empty park or I'll let them ride around in the car. Give it a week or two and so long as your puppy has decent nerve it should pass. I think what really messes up a lot of pups is when they start to show signs of fear, and then the owner UPS the socialization, which just pushes the puppy beyond what they can handle and they don't tend to come out of it as easily. Anyway, I've raised countless puppies, the only ones I have issues with are the ones that come to me genetically wired as weak nerve dogs.


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## Sslitovkin (Feb 27, 2014)

This same thing happened to my puppy at 9 weeks, but she ended up with a broken leg from the attack. It was my parents 8 year old gsd who was visiting us and had gotten along with my puppy for 2 weeks prior. She has had 2 surgeries so far and will need at least one more. I was very scared of her being wary of other dogs and possibly getting fear aggressive, so I found a doggy day care that helped us only re introduce her to dogs and show her that not all dogs are going to hurt her. She has been going for a few months now and is really starting to come out of her shell around other dogs and loves playing with them now. It took me forever, and I still feel guilty sometimes that it happened, but I know I have to let it go. I don't take her to dog parks, but like I said, she does go to doggy day care once a week and it has helped tremendously. And I love that it is a controlled environment!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

A good doggy daycare works too. Anywhere he can meet and interact with dogs where there is structure and not a free for all.

It's just a superstition. In the same way an e collar on full blast meant to keep a dog from counter surfing can make a dog scared of going into the kitchen at all (particularly if they don't go into the kitchen much before that incident and thus don't have a lot of previous experiences in the room without being zapped) you have to set up a bunch of good experiences with friendly dogs until the dog figures out it was a one off deal. This shouldn't be done at a dog park ofc.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Sadly the pup got a life lesson at a formative age... He'll be dog aggressive for the rest of his years.

1. The 3 year old lacked nerves and social skills. What should have happened is if the older dog didn't like the puppies advances, he would hold his head gently but firmly in his mouth with a growl or two, and the puppy would submit.. No harm done. You will see this in stable dogs dealing with younger dogs, particularly pack dogs.
2. You should be your pups pack leader. You think his momma would have let a strange dog come near a pup? No way, nice, mean or indifferent, momma wouldn't trust a strange dog, end of story. If you're approached, actively and aggressively step in front of your puppy and make it clear to the handler and** the dog with eye contact and a squared off dominant posture that no one approaches your pup. Hopefully your pup believes you're in control and gonna protect him and that might help with the issues.

But like I said, that was about the worst possible age for that to happen and it's gonna stick. Had the same occurred 3-6 months from now, it wouldn't be as much a concern


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Right it could stick. You're doing damage control and if you get on it early enough you'd see improvements but if I had to guess full normality might not be in the cards.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Baillif said:


> Right it could stick. You're doing damage control and if you get on it early enough you'd see improvements but if I had to guess full normality might not be in the cards.


Yeah... With dogs or people, there's that period were things are being etched in stone. Those very early lessons are what set the tone for a lifetime.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

OP I'll tell you this, when I have a puppy no strange dogs are allowed within 10 feet for the first few months.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Id be trying to show the pup good pictures (at the risk of providing more bad ones) in as controlled a setting as I could but yeah. Might have been too much and theres no going back who knows.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

selzer said:


> Try not to over-react when your dog over-reacts. Just tug on the leash and keep moving. Do not stop and let the dog get into his routine. A little tug and say, "it's only a dog," or kid or whatever, in a pleasant normal tone.
> 
> Keep walking with your dog. He had a bad experience, but now he needs to get over it. No coddling. Protect him. No baby talk. And if you are nervous, suck on a mint.
> 
> ...


The first time I heard about the mint thing was at a show. They had a bag of mints by the starting gate and I asked someone with knowledge why. That was when I learned how our breath changes when nervous. All the above is great advice. Be proactive in giving your pup positive experiences. Don't baby talk or overprotect. Be a leader. Be confident. Your pup will pick up on the confidence and feel safer. At pup stage they look to us to be their protector as they go through fear stages. Choose carefully which dogs you let approach.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

hunterisgreat said:


> Yeah... With dogs or people, there's that period were things are being etched in stone. Those very early lessons are what set the tone for a lifetime.


All the "fear" period stuff was news to be...sometimes theres nothing like sheer dumb luck! 

But any input on this:

Dog Club, Critical periods in your puppy’s psychological growth


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> All the "fear" period stuff was news to be...sometimes theres nothing like sheer dumb luck!
> 
> But any input on this:
> 
> Dog Club, Critical periods in your puppy’s psychological growth


It's not incorrect but I also don't put such rigid timeframes on it. Every dog varies a bit


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

During the crucial socialization period dogs learn things a little differently, and what they learn is usually stronger, or they can fall back on it later on. This is why positive socialization experiences in this time-frame are really good and negative ones tend to be really bad. 

But, dogs with no socialization can still be socialized. And dogs that have had bad experienced can learn to be more confident around what was the problem. It is not helpful to think the dog is a hopeless case. It just takes longer and the results may not be as good as if the incident had not happened. You may have to address the situation specifically, and carefully socialize to known stable dogs, over a period of time.

You do not regain the time before 16 or 20 weeks, but you can make it less of an impact.


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