# Commercial vs Hobby vs Personal Breeder



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Can someone tell me what people mean when they say "Commercial", "Hobby", "Personal" breeder? What are the differences? Along with the differences, could you post a website of a breeder that is an example?

Like you could say,

"Private breeders are higher in prices and [insert breeder] is an example of one."

Or could someone post a link that explains it?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What is a personal or private breeder? I know the meaning of the other two. Not sure there should be so many terms for a person or business who breeds dogs?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Personally: 

*Commercial *(here in the US) - Puppy Mills

*Hobby Breeder* - can be on the Commercial Side, depending on if they do Sport professionally or not but they are in no way to be compared to Puppy Mills, even though some Sport Dog or Show Line Breeders in fact ARE Puppy Mills. 

*Personal Breeder* - not necessarily more expensive. I just consider a Personal Breeder a Breeder who has no more than on or two litters in about four years. Something very small, that can be considered a hobby but just on a much smaller scale. 

Does that make sense?


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> What is a personal breeder? I know the meaning of the other two.


I think another name is "Private" breeder.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSD Fan said:


> I think another name is "Private" breeder.


Hobby Breeders are also Private Breeders.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Personally:
> 
> *Commercial *(here in the US) - Puppy Mills
> 
> ...


Okay, thank you for explaining that to me.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

everyone uses the same words, but there is no hard and fast definition!

Commercial - people who produce multiple litters at the same time, and also buy adult titled dogs for the purpose of producing a product (puppies) to sell - also buy and sell young dogs...can be known in sport world, can be just big operations (kraftwerk, kreative, eurosport are examples of how I define "commercial")

Hobby breeders - have a few dogs, keep them as companions - but have breed knowledge. A few of these have a long term game plan pedigree/bloodline wise, some just breed what ever dog they have to a dog within their peer group/club

Personal - someone who just breeds a female once or twice in her lifetime for a replacement puppy- does not necessarily have alot of breed knowledge (but can), or experience or is active in some aspect of sport....

Just the way I define these terms

Lee


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Thing is, via SV Statutes you can't be commercial. You MUST be a Hobby Breeder. Even though everyone knows that Kraftwerk and other big kennels etc.pp, is more than just Hobby, it's Hobby. It's very blurry. 

All big kennels are more than Hobby. If the German IRS knew how much money is made with those kennels... oi, oi, oi and that is why it is supposed to be a hobby and not a large commercial operation but hey... the big guns and the SV Leadership profits just as much. The SV is one of the most corrupt institutions out there... :help:


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I think everyone has a different idea of what these terms mean. 

"Hobby", "Personal",and "Private" aren't really very descriptive. I like to use the term "ethical breeder". Many hobby breeders are ethical, some are not. It's even possible for a large commercial kennel to be ethical, if they know what they're doing, care how they're doing it, and are producing outstanding dogs.

BYBs and puppy mills are, by definition, unethical.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Is a private breeder the one who doesn't pay taxes on cash income from selling puppies?


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

GSD07 said:


> Is a private breeder the one who doesn't pay taxes on cash income from selling puppies?


In Germany, that's the Hobby Breeder, which is why they can't be commercial because according to the SV statutes, you are not supposed to make profit off of it. Even though everyone knows....


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Tax is really irrelevant. Most breeders (unless you're producing a lot of puppies from the same males/females in one year) aren't making much profit from their breeding. Although IRS wants you to report all your revenue from a hobby, they also allow you to deduct expenses. So any training, handler fees, trial fees, vet costs, and even food costs can be deducted if they're related to the breeding hobby. This can actually lead to a loss, which can be taken for a few years and help them save on taxes. If they never make money, they can't claim a loss and its a wash.

Those larger commercial kennels are more than likely run like a business in the United States. Breeding is such an economies of scale business that the more puppies you can produce, the more you can make. You save money on transportation when you take 10 dogs to a show rather than one at a time, and you can really make a good profit.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

If we're going to assign lables, I've always considered a commercial breeder to be one who's primary (or only) income is related to dogs. They make their living breeding and selling puppies. Due to the number of pups one would have to produce to accomplish that, they tend to be large operations with a lot of dogs and a lot of litters or puppies. 

Conversely, a hobby breeder is someone who breeds as a hobby, just as the name entails. They aren't looking to their dogs and pups to be a significant portion of the income that puts a roof over their heads and food on the table. Some hobby breeders do make a small profit, but many do not, and when profits are made it certainly isn't enough to cover living expenses. For most, any money made for puppy sales goes back into the dogs, and the best they can hope for is for the hobby to be somewhat self sustaining.

Puppymills would be commercial, and I suppose BYBs would be hobby. But there are certainly probably some good commercial breeders out there, as well as bad, and the same can be said about hobby breeders. I have no idea what a personal or private breeder is supposed to be.

Rather than label, I just look at 2 things. First, does the breeder have the type of dog I want in terms of the genetics of the dogs (bloodlines and such). Second, is it a breeder who's program I'd want to support. I'd never buy a dog if the answer to the first wasn't "yes". I might buy a dog if the answer to the second wasn't "yes". It would depend on what I didn't like that made them not a "yes", and then how much I really wanted the genetics. Size of their operation, whether they make money or not, and how they file their tax return doesn't enter into the equation really.


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