# Another ears question... @4 months...



## superbob76 (Jun 26, 2008)

After reading a lot of forum posts in the Ears Up section, and realizing that our puppy's 4th month has come and gone, I've started to wonder about having to tape or glue. 

Shadow's left ear has never been up, and her right ear has been straight-ish but flopped over her head. The only time her ears are fully up is when she's looking up at something. Sometimes the left ear will stand when she hears smoething very interesting or she sees food, but that's it.

They feel relatively solid and seem like they should be able to handle the weight of standing up, but they just won't go up. I see that a lot of people have had puppies whose ears have been up and down until they start teething, but Shadow has yet to have them up for more than a few seconds at a time. I'm being patient, but would like to be on top of things in case they don't come up soon.

At what point should I consider taping or gluing? I don't want to wait until it's too late, but don't want to do anything drastic early. 

Sometimes I wonder if she's imitating our greyhound; when they are both walking at a decent pace they both have their ears pinned back like she's trying to be aerodynamic.


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## superbob76 (Jun 26, 2008)

I should also say that she does chew, all the time. Rawhide, wet frozen rags, kongs, etc. She's also on Iams Puppy, 4 and change cups a day.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

My breeder taped/glued Luca's ears at age 5 months, claiming that was the optimal time. If you've hit that mark, and see no sign of them going up on their own, then you might start thinking about it. 

They may come up without help...they may not even if you do. But it won't hurt her (it'll look like **** for a while!), and you'll feel like you did all you could.


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

I glued my pup's ear up at about 5 mos, and it took about 4 mos for it to stay up, although that ear is still soft (flops when he trots, shakes his head, etc. But that ear _never_ came up before, during or after teething. His "good" ear came up at about 9 weeks, and stayed up. If her ears are going up and down at least part of the time, they should go up and stay up, from what I've read. But it won't hurt to tape/glue it if it makes you feel better. JMO.



> Originally Posted By: RobertM She's also on Iams Puppy, 4 and change cups a day.


Personally, I would not feed this food. I used to be a believer in Iams, Science Diet, and Eukanuba. Since getting my pup and doing tons of research on commercial pet foods, I've learned that these foods suck. Your pup might do _ok _on it, but she could definitely be eating something better. If you check out some of the threads about food/feeding dogs, you'll see what I mean.

I would especially look into feeding her something higher quality, because of the concern about her ears. Also JMO.







For what it's worth (which I've been told isn't much sometimes - LOL!)

Here is a great article on "Taping a German Shepherd Pups Ears" by Ed Frawley. 

http://leerburg.com/pdf/tapingears.pdf

It helped me a lot, although I glued Kodee's ear instead of taping it. He kept getting the tape off, but didn't seem bothered by the glue. 

Good luck!

P.S. Also, just FYI, dogs and pups shouldn't get rawhide. Since they can't chew it up enough to break it down into small bits, they end up swallowing "chunks" of it, which can't be digested. If it gets stuck in the intestine, it can cause a blockage, which if isn't treated surgically in time, can lead to death. I don't give my pup any "leathery" items, like rawhide, pig ears, etc. I've heard bully sticks are good, but I've never used them. My pup got lots of raw chicken (including bones), along w/raw marrow bones, and Knox gelatin, to help w/his ears. Got these suggestions from different breeders, who had a lot of experience w/ears.







Didn't seem to help a lot in our situation, but I think his ear being soft was genetic, not due to diet, etc. 

<span style="color: #FF0000">NOTE</span>: I forgot to point out that if you look at my avatar picture, you can see Kodee's right ear is glued up w/black foam in it.


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## superbob76 (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: KodeeGirl
> P.S. Also, just FYI, dogs and pups shouldn't get rawhide. Since they can't chew it up enough to break it down into small bits, they end up swallowing "chunks" of it, which can't be digested. If it gets stuck in the intestine, it can cause a blockage, which if isn't treated surgically in time, can lead to death. I don't give my pup any "leathery" items, like rawhide, pig ears, etc. I've heard bully sticks are good, but I've never used them. My pup got lots of raw chicken (including bones), along w/raw marrow bones, and Knox gelatin, to help w/his ears. Got these suggestions from different breeders, who had a lot of experience w/ears.
> 
> 
> ...


My apologies... we only give her the bully sticks. She could chew through a rawhide in 30 minutes if we left her to her own devices. The bully sticks seem to work pretty well for her.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Do you have any pictures you could post so we can see what her ears look like now?


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## superbob76 (Jun 26, 2008)

I do... just took this now. This is pretty much the default position, unless we're walking, in which case they sometimes are pointed straight back.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Since that is "default" position, if it were me, I would give her some more time since she is just 4 months old today. If they were TOTALLY "floppy" like a Lab, or if she was older, I MIGHT go to work on them now.

She sure is a cutie!


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

I would wait until five months, a lot can happen in a month. my boy Zeus, who is a few days older than your girl, his ears are flopping up and down as well. One of his ears is doing pretty good standing up, but the other one is pretty floppy up and down.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

my pup kong is only three months so its to early to tell about his ears,but even if they dont go up i think it should be natral so id leave um


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## cgarrity (Apr 22, 2008)

I would suggest waiting until she is 5-6 months old before taping or gluing. She's still teething so the ears do strange things in this phase. My pup's ears didn't go up until he was 7 months old. I'd recommend giving her some real marrow bones to chew to add additional calcium to her diet and also to facilitate chewing. The chewing is said to strengthen the muscles that hold the ear up.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

mabye give um a year


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: newGSDownermmabye give um a year


NO, don't wait a year. If you wait that long, it will be too late to glue/tape. If they aren't up by about 5-1/2 months, I'd do something at that point, unless she's still teething. If she teeths later than that, then the second she was done teething, I'd glue them. JMO.

But I know for a fact that waiting a year is way too late.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

I agree. If an owner is interested in doing the glue/tape procedure, the time to do it is in the 5-6 month time frame. 

There's nothing wrong with gluing or taping ears if they need some help to stand. Having erect ears is part of what makes a GSD a GSD. Any of us would love our dogs just as much with flop ears, but if there is something that can be tried that will improve the chances of getting erect ears, why not? The dog won't care one way or the other. It can't hurt them.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

Luca are you a dog? if not then how do you know how a gsd feels?







and why dose anyone need the ears up?









and no a year is not to long.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

so what are you going to do rob?


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: newGSDownerm
> and no a year is not to long.


Nothing personal, but you don't know what you're talking about. Waiting til a year is just a guarantee that the gluing/taping won't work. I think the fact that you don't care whether your pups ears go up is fine, but I bet that since you don't care either way, you haven't done much research on how/when to do it.







Some of us have, and I'm one of those people. I definitely don't claim to know everything, but I do know that waiting a year is too long. 

I can't speak for other dog owners, but I know that Kodee didn't mind the foam in his ear. He never bothered it once the glue was dry. I have heard people say that their dogs went nuts trying to get tape/glue out of the ear, but mine never did. It won't hurt to try it. If someone wants their GSD's ears up, there's nothing wrong with that. That's part of the trademark of the breed. Try to be a little more open-minded.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

newGSDownerm: Yes, Luca is a dog. My name is Tracy and I'm human. 

Part of being a good dog owner is being able to tell how a dog feels. They give very readable cues when they are stressed or in pain. If you don't have any idea how your dog feels from day to day, you're not paying close enough attention. 

It is my experience that glueing or taping flopping ears causes neither stress nor pain to the dog. The ears are not held in tension. 

But there is no mandate that anyone glue or tape ears. If that's not something that interests you, great. (But then I have to wonder why you're in this thread offering advice...) 

Those who ARE interested in learning about glueing or taping ears are here to learn from those who have experience at it. Of the hundreds of people who've visited this section of the board in the last couple of years, I don't recall any that had success glueing or taping the ears of a dog more than a year old. If you have experience and success at that, then share it.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

hmm well when you guys put it that way ok.







but i was only telling you tracy cause my pup kong hates it when people mess with him,i though most dogs were like that.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

No problem, I understand where you're coming from on the ears. We're good. 

"Messing" with a dog is something that they need to get used to, from a very early age. Messing with ears, teeth, toenails, eyes, butt, every part of a puppy should be touched frequently as part of grooming---for that very reason. Otherwise, by the time a dog is an adult it is impossible to clip his nails, give ear drops, examine teeth, take temperature, etc. 

I can't tell you how many people come on here wondering how in the world to get their dog to submit to having ear medicines put in...or dogs that have to be sedated just to get a nail trim. 

I don't think dogs should get to decide what's okay for the owner to "mess with."


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Nope, all dogs are different! That's why when I ask a question about advice on my boys, I like to wait and see if there are multiple ways to do something, so I can pick what may work best for them.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

hmm you have good pionts,but tracy i think you need to think more about how your dog feels,but yes i do understand what your saying. and i think im going to do what you do GSDOwner2008.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

If you're not already, I'd encourage you to get in the habit of an hour-long grooming session once a week where you calmly go over your pup, brush his teeth, clean his ears, trim his nails, and an all-over brushing. It's a good opportunity to get in tune with your dog, and help him to feel like he trusts you enough to let you touch him. A dog that doesn't want to be "messed with" doesn't trust that person. Changing that relationship now will save you many years of trouble down the road. 

And I'll think more about how all three of my dogs feel. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

well thanks for yours and i have question,do GSD's need ears up to compete?


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## kbigge (Dec 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Luca_stl I don't think dogs should get to decide what's okay for the owner to "mess with."


Tracy - I totally agree! I used to work for a vet, and I used to get so disgusted with pet owners whose dogs were total nutjobs b/c the owner hadn't worked with them. So we'd end up muzzling a dog to trim nails, and it could take 3 or 4 people to do something that I felt a decent owner could've done at home by themselves. To this day, I get irritated when I see people whose dogs run the show.







Ugh! Not good for the dog, IMO!

My philosophy with Kodee is "the more he hates to have something done, the more I do it." LOL! Sounds harsh, but it's working great! It used to be a struggle to groom him, and after months of not giving in when he resists (I'm consistent, but I use positive reinforcement, not punishment) he is finally getting resigned to the fact that I AM going to comb/brush him out (he's coated, so it's gotta be done often!), I AM going to trim his nails (I take 1/2 as much off as I could, and do them 2x more often, I AM going to check/clean his ears.

The idea of taking him to a "professional" to get simple things done bugs me. I'm his person, he has to be better behaved for me than anyone else! LOL!


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

> Quote: do GSD's need ears up to compete


In a conformation show, yes. 

In any other dog sport, no. 

Ears are admittedly an aesthetic issue. But much of what makes any purebred dog a purebred is his adherance to a list of physical attributes. In GSDs, having erect ears is one of the key features of the head. Without them, they don't "look like" a GSD. But it doesn't make them an inferior dog in any other way. A responsible breeder would probably not breed a GSD with flop ears. 




> Quote:Tracy - I totally agree! I used to work for a vet, and I used to get so disgusted with pet owners whose dogs were total nutjobs b/c the owner hadn't worked with them. So we'd end up muzzling a dog to trim nails, and it could take 3 or 4 people to do something that I felt a decent owner could've done at home by themselves.


Since "brags" are encouraged here, I'll toot my own horn a little on this subject--

Yesterday afternoon I took all three dogs to the vet for annual checkups/blood tests, etc--all three at the same time, all in the same exam room. 

All of my dogs laid quietly on the floor waiting their turn. When they were being examined by the vet, she poked and prodded every inch of them--including ears, rectal thermometer, checking teeth, palpating glands--the works. Then they drew blood for tests. 

Not one of my dogs ever needed any restraint to do any of these things. I sat on the floor next to them and stroked their head. They submitted calmly to the whole thing, got a cookie, and then waited for the next dog to be examined. 

I couldn't have been prouder. When the vet and the other techs commented on how calm and well mannered my dogs were, I thanked them for the high compliment it was. THEY DON'T COME THAT WAY!! LOL. It takes months of work.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Tracy, months of work is right! We all need to do stuff our dogs don't enjoy.. BECAUSE the don't enjoy it. Restraining paws, handling ears, muzzle, lips, back end, etc. all come into play when "puppy" is now 85 pounds of teenager who has always been allowed what he wants regarding handling and you are in an emergency and NOW need to handle those ears, paws, hindquarters, etc. We get pups used to restraint, used to being messed with, so that thex understand that such handling is ho-hum, no big deal, par for the course-- and that we have the RIGHT to restraint and handle them. This way, when that medical emergency arises, the dogs are accustomed to such handling and restraint.

Grimm was a controling, infuriated, impatient little tyrant as a puppy, when it came to ear handling, paw restraint, etc. We made it POSITIVE, CALM, but MANDATORY that he permit such handling. Now, at age 20 months, the vet and one tech can set him on the exam table, do what they need, and recieve a tongue-lashing for a thank-you from Grimm. I myself can clip his nails, clean his ears, touch any and all parts of his anatomy.

To the OP-- at four months, do not worry. I bet your dog's ears will come up yet! Grimm's ears stood at 5 months.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Being able to handle ALL parts of your dog could very well SAVE ITS LIFE.

When my older female severed an artery in her leg several years ago, if I hadn't been able to handle her legs and feet with NO trouble, she WOULD have bled to DEATH! It took over 2 hours from the time it happened until we could: 

#1 FIND a vet. (Not only was it "after hours" but it was also a holiday weekend. And there are NO "Emergency vet clinics" even close to our location. ) 

And #2 it was at night during a serious snow storm. It took over an hour to go 40 miles in a 4X4 pick-up.

Anyway, the point is, if I was worried about how my dog "feels", she would have DIED because I wouldn't have taken the time to MAKE her let me handle ALL parts of her body wether she liked it or NOT.


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## maya-newmama (Jul 25, 2008)

Gasp! What a cutie! I think he looks so cute with the floppy ears... BUT if you really want the ears up you might want to try a calcium supplement. when I brought home my new puppy jager at 8 weeks old, he had one ear standing straight up and one floppy ear. If you look at my avatar, that's jager 4 weeks ago with the floppy ear. I pointed out the floppy ear to my vet to ask if this was "normal" and he recommended a calcium phosphate supplement. I used vitatroy (it has other vitamins also aside from the calcium). After 2 weeks, the floppy ear would sometimes stand when something catches his attention. By the third week, both ears were permanently up. Its the first thing people notice when I walk him because his ears are also huge  That being said... I kinda miss jager's floppy ear... it gave him character.


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## maya-newmama (Jul 25, 2008)

here's jager when he was 8 weeks old, if you look closely you'll see the right ear is very floppy:









And this picture was taken just 3 weeks later (last week) when jager was 11 weeks old: 









Of course im not an expert so it could be that his ears would have gone up anyway even without the vitamin supplement... but still... it can't hurt to try


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: maya-newmama
> Of course im not an expert so it could be that his ears would have gone up anyway even without the vitamin supplement... but still... it can't hurt to try


Actually it CAN hurt. Too much calcium can have a VERY negative effect on a growing puppy.


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

yah i wish kong was better behaved, i had him all calm at the vets tuseday,but when dr bauchman came in kong stated going nuts,he wouldnt do a thing i said,i felt so imbarissed for not being able to cotrol my dog.


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Work on Obedience, work on socializing him with the vet's office and the vet. How old is Kong?


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## newGSDownerm (Jul 27, 2008)

kong is 4 months

however i finaly had a peaceful day at the vets,kong went in and out with only 1 disterbance,3 chiwauas scared him so he hid behind me.


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## superbob76 (Jun 26, 2008)

Well, it's Shadow's 5 month birthday, and they're still not up. They look fantastic when we take her to the park and she gets all fired up, and they stand straight up the whole time. Then, as soon as we start walking home they flop back down again. We're not entirely sure what to do at this point; she's still teething (a LOT, she's lost 5 teeth in the last week and change, and all of her teeth are poking through the gums now) so I'm somewhat hesitant to start gluing or taping as of yet. We'll probably give it another 2 or 3 weeks until the teething is done before we make any final decisions.

Speaking of dogs running the show, Shadow got her nails trimmed today. Ooohh boy she was NOT a fan. A lot of other handling seems to be ok, ears and teeth, but since my wife and I are wimps and can't seem to cut nails without drawing lots of blood we've only had the groomers cut them. I guess we need some work there.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RobertMWell, it's Shadow's 5 month birthday, and they're still not up. They look fantastic when we take her to the park and she gets all fired up, and they stand straight up the whole time. Then, as soon as we start walking home they flop back down again. We're not entirely sure what to do at this point; she's still teething (a LOT, she's lost 5 teeth in the last week and change, and all of her teeth are poking through the gums now) so I'm somewhat hesitant to start gluing or taping as of yet. We'll probably give it another 2 or 3 weeks until the teething is done before we make any final decisions.


Luther was born a few days ahead of Shadow on 3/18/08. His ears are exactly as you describe Shadow's and he is teething like crazy, too (just found another one on the living room floor). They are large and he seems to have a lot of control of them in moving around - very often "airplane wings". Often one is up and the other airplaned. His breeder said the other puppies in his litter are also slow to bring their ears up and she had a few of them taped a month or so ago. I thought that seemed a bit premature and like you, have decided to wait until after teething. It is encouraging to me that he does stand them when playing or very excited about something. Who knows what the right answer is, but I've decided to just keep watching and get serious about it when teething is finished. 

I'll keep you posted!


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RobertMWell, it's Shadow's 5 month birthday, and they're still not up. They look fantastic when we take her to the park and she gets all fired up, and they stand straight up the whole time. Then, as soon as we start walking home they flop back down again. We're not entirely sure what to do at this point; she's still teething (a LOT, she's lost 5 teeth in the last week and change, and all of her teeth are poking through the gums now) so I'm somewhat hesitant to start gluing or taping as of yet. We'll probably give it another 2 or 3 weeks until the teething is done before we make any final decisions.
> 
> Speaking of dogs running the show, Shadow got her nails trimmed today. Ooohh boy she was NOT a fan. A lot of other handling seems to be ok, ears and teeth, but since my wife and I are wimps and can't seem to cut nails without drawing lots of blood we've only had the groomers cut them. I guess we need some work there.


For the ears, I am in the same boat with Zeus. His ears have gone up several times, and both have stood up for a few minutes, and then flopped back down. I believe he is still teething, and IMHO I think it would be best to wait until the dog loses it's last canine. That usually signifies the end of teething, and if the ears are not up by then, then I would tape or glue.

For the nail clipping, if the dog's nails are bleeding after you clip, you did them too short. We did that once with Apollo, and now he hates his nails to be clipped. So I have to hold him while my Dad clips just the tips of the nails to build Apollo's confidence again. After that, if Apollo does good, he gets a lot of praise and rewards, whether it's a treat or toy, something that signifies that he did good. If he has bad behavior, it's ignored.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDBeing able to handle ALL parts of your dog could very well SAVE ITS LIFE.


SO true! When my GSD got hemangiosarcoma last year, the choices were to do a very dangerous surgery, which he may not have survived - or to have an ultrasound. The ultrasound, while not as definitive as surgery would have been, was much safer, and turned out to be a definitive enough diagnosis. He was HUGE - purebred - but 125 pounds and not fat. He had been bleeding internally and at the ultrasound doc's, they wanted to give him fluids. The Tech was a little afraid of his size, but was able to tell him to down-stay and he submitted beautifully and laid quietly for the hour-long fluid drip. The ultrasound required him to lay on his back on a high table and let the doctor do his work. I told him he was OK and he just settled back and did it. If we had not worked with him all his life - he would not have had the few more weeks he had of good time at home without stress or pain of surgery. One can go on for years without needing to challenge a dog that isn't conditioned to submit to any and all examination, but that one time you need it is SO worth the effort.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: GSDOwner2008For the ears, I am in the same boat with Zeus. His ears have gone up several times, and both have stood up for a few minutes, and then flopped back down. I believe he is still teething, and IMHO I think it would be best to wait until the dog loses it's last canine. That usually signifies the end of teething, and if the ears are not up by then, then I would tape or glue.


I have a question for those of you who have experienced "late" ears? Luther's ears are up most of the time when he is happy or excited or playing, but they are kind of weak and move a lot when he runs. I think these are called "friendly" ears? Will they strengthen over time if they are going to be OK? He is still teething...


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Like I said before, you should wait until teething is through, but if you insist on doing something now, I would glue.


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