# German Shepherd Female Question



## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

*I have been offered a co own female; she is 4 years old, titled, never had a litter yet. My plan is to show and gain experience. However the person I will co own with wants one litter from her. The deal I will have is I do hips/elbows if they pass the co owner gets a litter if not she is mine {must be spayed}! I have recently stumbled across the information that the mother of this co owned dog died at age 7 years of cardiomyopathy.

My questions are:

Is cardiomyopathy genetic?
When I do the cardio health test and she is clear; could she still pass it on?
Obviously when I do the cardio test if she comes back with a problem then spay her is the only option.

This will be my first dog and even though the litter will belong to the co owner my name will still be associated and I do not want to be irresponsible. I know the co owner is not irresponsible. She has a great name and I have emailed these questions to her as well but looking for other opinions so I can make the right choice and have as much information as possible.

Thank you*


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

yes, yes and why doesn't the person who owns this 4 yr old dog have the xrays done already?


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_Wyes, yes and why doesn't the person who owns this 4 yr old dog have the xrays done already?


*She has been extremely busy with some personal issues and as a result never bred her and never did the xrays. I do not mind doing the xrays that is not a big deal to me. It is the cardiomyopathy that I know nothing about.
*


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Even if the hips/elbows pass wouldn't it be a bad idea to breed her since cardiomyopathy is genetic and she could still pass it even though she's clear? (I know nothing about breeding but it's common sense...)
I think that sounds a little irresponsible on her part.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I was wondering the same thing as Angela re: the lack of x-rays.

If I wanted to go into a co-ownership, I wouldn't do it with a dog that is that old, hasn't been bred AND hasn't even been x-rayed.

Sounds like yoo much chance of it being a "loose, loose" situation for YOU. If her hips and or elbows don't pass, you automatically have a "pet".


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ShowGSD*She has been extremely busy with some personal issues and as a result never bred her and never did the xrays. I do not mind doing the xrays that is not a big deal to me. It is the cardiomyopathy that I know nothing about.
> *


For 4 years?? I think I'd skip on this one.


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DenaliFofaliEven if the hips/elbows pass wouldn't it be a bad idea to breed her since cardiomyopathy is genetic and she could still pass it even though she's clear? (I know nothing about breeding but it's common sense...)
> I think that sounds a little irresponsible on her part.


*I do not know if she is even aware of the cardiomyopathy. I searched long and hard over the pedigree and by accident stumbled across the information. It is not readily available. I have emailed her but she is extremely busy so have not heard back yet. Too be fair I will not claim someone is irresponsible until they have a fair chance to respond. This breeder has supplied me with a ton of good information and helped me in my ambition to get a show dog. 

I did not know if it was genetic or not so I was looking for answers and resources for more information. I know these topics can get heated but please let's not attack someone without the full information.

I asked because I did not know. Now I know! That is how we learn!

*


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> If her hips and or elbows don't pass, you automatically have a "pet".


*My goal in this is:

I would like to be able to show and gain experience. A pet is fine with me! I do not need to breed as I am not ready for that step yet. So if hips or elbows do not pass, and I have a pet that I can show and gain experience and give her a great non breeding life, that is ok with me. 

The litter would be the co owners and not mine. It would be her first and last litter however if she has a genetic issue then I prefer to just pass or spay her right away.

Can I do obedience and tracking with a spayed dog? I know confirmation must be intact but she already has her champion so no need to continue there.*


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Quote:I have emailed her but she is extremely busy so have not heard back yet. Too be fair I will not claim someone is irresponsible until they have a fair chance to respond. This breeder has supplied me with a ton of good information and helped me in my ambition to get a show dog.



I'm not attacking her at all. 
But personally with all the information, I would not go through with this one.


No X-rays for 4 years is a little weird too.
What if her hips are bad??


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/cardiovascular%20diseases/cardiomyopathy.htm

It was the mother of the dog you are considering? So not that far back to get that information one would think!

Glad you are doing that due diligence and won't cause families much heartbreak as their young dogs pass away from a preventable problem (preventable by not passing it on). And no dogs will have to suffer shortened, painful lives. Thank you.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: ShowGSDCan I do obedience and tracking with a spayed dog? I know confirmation must be intact but she already has her champion so no need to continue there.[/b]


Yes! And Agility and Rally. And Flyball!


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANhttp://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/cardiovascular diseases/cardiomyopathy.htm
> 
> It was the mother of the dog you are considering? So not that far back to get that information one would think!
> 
> Glad you are doing that due diligence and won't cause families much heartbreak as their young dogs pass away from a preventable problem (preventable by not passing it on). And no dogs will have to suffer shortened, painful lives. Thank you.


*Thank you for the link. Very useful information! I just want to make sure I do the right thing. I lost a dog very recently far to soon. It was a rescue but still loved by our family very much and it caused heartache! I also want to build a good name in the german shepherd world and want to start off on the right foot. That was why I thought showing would be a great start. Learn as much as possible.*


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> Yes! And Agility and Rally. And Flyball!


*I have to await the response from the co owner now. If she is willing not to breed and I just pay her on a spay contract instead, do I still want the dog with all this information. She might or might not have a problem. If the co owner insists on breeding then I am not interested.

Lots to decide now.*


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

> Quote: Can I do obedience and tracking with a spayed dog? I know confirmation must be intact but she already has her champion so no need to continue there.


Yes, you can do all sorts of performance events with a spayed bitch. But, if her hips or elbows are bad then jumping isn't a good idea, and strenuous activities would be ruled out with a heart problem.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ShowGSD
> *I have to await the response from the co owner now. If she is willing not to breed and I just pay her on a spay contract instead, do I still want the dog with all this information. She might or might not have a problem. If the co owner insists on breeding then I am not interested.
> 
> Lots to decide now.*


Good idea.


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

*I have to discuss this further with my husband, with the co owner and really think about it myself. Breeding is out! But do I even want to continue as a pet knowing what I know? I need to really think about it.

I will let you know what we decide or how it works out! 

Thank you*


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

I find it hard to believe that this woman has been busy for four years, to the point where she couldn't do something as routine as taking her dog in for X-rays. What else hasn't she done? Sorry, I wouldn't go any further here - you are looking at a situation where you COULD be stuck with a girl which has a serious genetic fault in her background (and which can be passed on) and also may have problematic hips or elbows. I think co-ownership isn't a good idea either, but that's just me - I like to call the shots, not have to defer to someone else. And as the breeder is the "senior" person in this arrangement - and you a novice - that's the way it will most likely be.

If you are truly interested in showing, I would start with your own puppy and go from there. Good luck, whatever you decide.....

______________________________________________
Susan

Anja GSD
Conor GSD - adoped from this Board
Blue GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Yes, you cna do obed and tracking with a spayed dog. I assumed (wrong) that you were wanting a dog the show in conformation.

However, depending on the severity of the hip/elbow x-rays. (IF there is a problem.) Her "show life" could be signifigantly(sp) shortener. (Or not. If the problem were mild it may never effect her.)

Is she trained and readay to show/trial in obed and tracking?


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

*She has basic obedience and is show trained. The rest I would have to invest in classes.

Based on my novice level, lack of knowledge, just starting out; I am seriously thinking I might be better to wait and pass on this dog. I have heard back from one breeder; the one who owns the dog who died{the mother to the dog I am considering} her explaination made sense too. It is one dog{none of her siblings had a problem, the sire and dam lived to a ripe old age and so far non of her puppies have shown any signs}! She is breeding a full brother to the dog I am considering and as of yet no problems.

I am still awaiting a response from the person I am suppose to co own with. I still have to discuss with my husband.

But we all need to keep in mind; I am just starting out. So I lack the knowledge that the more experienced breeders have of the bloodlines. I am not comfortable starting out with a potential problem. Maybe everything will be healthy and perfect, but what if it is not? I am just not willing to start that way.

So for me breeding is OUT, so it will depend on whether the option to spay is even available. Based on that information then I can decide if I want to take her as a pet but train and continue with her or not.*


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

*Husband agrees with me and we believe it is in our best interests and the best interests of the german shepherd breed to pass on this girl. The person I was suppose to co own with has responded and informed me that she had no idea about the genetic implications. She is spaying the dog and not breeding her! Thank you for the help.*


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I trust that the current owner will spay her before rehoming her instead of selling her as a breeder to someone who would not have done the research that you did to discover the health issue.


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## ShowGSD (Jan 14, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqI trust that the current owner will spay her before rehoming her instead of selling her as a breeder to someone who would not have done the research that you did to discover the health issue.


*She told me she was going to spay her. She offered her to me as a pet but spayed before I picked her up; all I had to do was pay a small adoption fee to cover the spay. I politely turned her down.*


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Glad you are goiing to keep looking. 

Even if everything had been "ok". I wouldn't get a 4yo with only basic obed as an obed. competition dog.


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