# I want to kill the dog!!



## starrluvsjackson (Feb 24, 2011)

just need to put this down somewhere..its an understatement to say im not having a good day..Right now i just feel like crying ..and i swear this dog is stupid and i just cant take much more ..i dont care if im broke i'll find the money for someone else to train him if i can find someone in this state lol..:crazy:


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

He is just a puppy. The dog is not stupid and you shouldn't take your frustration out on the dog. Training takes time and dedication. There are going to be moments where its just not fun, but he is just a puppy, its not just going to happen super fast. Not sure how your thread title is going to sound to others and how the thread will either.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I understand frustration. And I jokingly say I'm going to kill my dogs, but I don't think its something I put in writing... Its more of Emma torturing the cats and so I jokingly say "excuse me while I go kill a certain german shepherd..." to my roommate before walking away. Watch what you say, you're going to get some very passionate responses... 

Frustration and venting aside.... I find training problems are always the fault of the person doing the training. The way I see it, is we took these animals out of their natural habitat. We domesticated them. We expect them to live around crazy unusual things. Expect them to learn to behave in crazy unusual ways. Its our responsibility to make it work, and if the way we want to train or the way we try to train isn't working its our responsibility to find a new way. Not the dog's, they didn't ask to be domesticated or kept as a pet.


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## starrluvsjackson (Feb 24, 2011)

yeah sorry lol..um well of course i didnt mean im literally going to kill the dog! i know hes only a puppy and all that, i know what puppys are like.. tho my inbred mutt i use to hav seems abit cleverer than my pure bred ive noticed thats all..and theres nothing wrong with the training method coz he gets it, but thats as far as it goes he isnt progressing we're still at the same stage as weeks ago and ive seen 5 week old puppys wth the same training method doing more than just sit and actually understanding..and he just doesnt focus but anyway im just gonna look into trainers for private sessions as i cant get to lessons..even my friend said shes never seen a puppy as crazy as mine and shes had heaps lol..sorry didnt mean to offend anyone but thats just me always putting things the wrong way and getting myself in trouble :/


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## yuricamp (Mar 13, 2011)

starrluvsjackson said:


> just need to put this down somewhere..:


Trust me....I understand your frustration. I think that it’s better that you vented through typing a message than being mean to the dog. It’s just like kiddos, pups don’t have the full ability of a more matured dog and so they are going to frustrate the devil out of you.

...there is an old Army saying “ Face out, take a knee and drink water!”

You have to purify the rock to get the pure gold that’s in there out. You can do it! WE are all on your side!!!


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Its ok, just on a board like this with so many passionate people it could have gone downhill quickly!!! 

As for other dogs with the same method.. Well thats the thing about training, it really differs from dog to dog! So what you're doing may not be the best for your specific puppy. Or they may just be learning at a different rate. I'm not sure what your specific issues are, I haven't read other posts of yours. 

Focus is a big thing for a puppy! Especially a high energy puppy like a GSD. My girl Emma is about 2 now, and she STILL has her focus all over the place much of the time. For example I make all of the dogs sit and wait for me to open the back door, and then they have to look at me and maintain eye contact before I release them to the backyard. My foster dog who has been here around a month slams his butt on the ground and stares at me until released. Emma sits, then stands, then sits, looks at me, looks at the sink, the bathroom door, the ceiling, me, the sink, the ceiling, the bathroom door... And around a bit more before she can maintain that eye contact long enough to be released. She knows what she needs to do. But focus is incredibly difficult for her, especially maintaining it completely! Maybe she'll be able to by 3


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Good thing you didn't mean no harm(I personally didn't think you did, just you sounded a bit angry and it worried me.)

You have t be patient and work with puppy, it will take time, but the puppy will learn.


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## starrluvsjackson (Feb 24, 2011)

Lin said:


> Emma sits, then stands, then sits, looks at me, looks at the sink, the bathroom door, the ceiling, me, the sink, the ceiling, the bathroom door...


 haha that just made me laugh which i needed as i now feel lke crying for upsetting people :crazy:...and gsd people have said you know they understand they went through the same thing etc and i feel better knowing that but i just feel like he is the craziest dog ever haha if only someone could have him and see what i mean..and i dont belt my animals so no one has to worry about me hurtng him im not like that ..well im doing clicker training and he does what i want when he sees it in my hand and knows hes getting the treat..but he doesnt seem to click on all the time (pardon the pun) especially with potty training and that going outside equals a treat..i know its just all frustration and having the training courses say you'll have your dog doing this in no time doesnt help haha..hard to put into words to explain exactly what his behaviour is like


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Try not to compare your puppy to other people's puppies, especially not if it's going to make you feel bad about yourself. We all have such wildly different skill levels in being able to read dog body language and having an "instinct" on what is the best way to teach a dog. And of course the dogs themselves are all so different as far as finding the right way to motivate them and get their attention. So your friend with the puppy who is younger but better trained is not a reflection on you as being a bad trainer!

I know how angry a puppy can make you. But when I think back on my dog's puppyhood, that anger I felt was really anger at myself for not knowing how to communicate with and teach my dogs what I needed them to learn. So take a deep breath, look your puppy in the eyes, and forgive yourself. Resolve to make a fresh start. 

I am a firm believer that the harder something is, the more reward there is at the end. The trick is to just stick it out through the hard times and not give up. And to ask for help when you need it.


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## ozshepherd (Mar 26, 2011)

Hehehe.....I am a member on another forum where we discuss these exact same things.....only difference is....its about TODDLERS!!!!!
Hang in there.....it gets easier.....at least that's what they reckon about toddlers!!!


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Private lessons are expensive, but, I felt so much better about my training and the ability of my dog after I took some private lessons. I think this may be the best way to go. 

Hang in there. Training can be frustrating, and when you and your dog "get it", it is the best feeling.


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## Pattycakes (Sep 8, 2010)

I have felt your frustration with my current GSD. When she was a puppy, she was a maniac! LOL Her attention span was pretty much zero and she was a wild one. She was obviously going to need a lot more exercise and training than I had anticipated. But she is coming up on 2 yrs old now and she is sooooo much better. I think she just matured slower than I had thought and way slower than my previous GSD. But we are getting there with lots work. 

Hang in there! It does get better!


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I've had those "I'm gonna kill them" days too. Not generally with OB, but when they do things that just drive me bonkers....for example, one day Micah (95 lb male GSD) came in with VERY muddy feet, and was told "crate!" Usually he complies well, but for some reason this day he felt the need to run to his crate, then back out, then ran a lap around the kitchen table, then back to the kitchen, then back to the crate, back out and aruond the table again...etc.

I was trying to get out the door and had my son all bundled up and ready to go in his carseat, and muddy paw prints all over the kitchen, dining room, and bonus room (where the crates are). Thank GOD none of it is carpeted, but still was a mess.

I was very unhappy with Micah that day!!! It happens, don't worry. You aren't alone. There are good days and bad ones.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

When my puppies can't focus we don't train. Instead I take them out to run around and play instead of asking the impossible. Don't set him up for failure if you know he's got the zoomies run him instead and train after


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Totally agree Zoey's mom. Most days with Dante (malinois) I work on VERY basic OB with lots of fetch rewarding with his tug or ball, before I start real OB. It helps him get the zoomies out.

He gets so excited and amped up that he'll do victory laps around the yard with his tug if I don't recall him back. Gotta love puppies. :wub:


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi starrluvsjackson. What is it that you are trying to teach your dog that it is not grasping. Is he dense as in had a lobotomy dense. 
Intelligence is something that has to be bred for. Expecting backlash here , smart enough to know that . 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

starrluvsjackson said:


> ...and he just doesnt focus...


How are you trying to teach him focus? Maybe if you explain what you've tried so far we can offer helpful suggestions.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Zoeys mom said:


> When my puppies can't focus we don't train. Instead I take them out to run around and play instead of asking the impossible. Don't set him up for failure if you know he's got the zoomies run him instead and train after


I agree 100%! Sometimes perfection comes in a split second and then it's gone. Take what you can get in the beginning! 

My GSD has a very intense prey drive towards our cats. He is 19 months old, and this weekend was the very first time that a cat ran and although his entire body jerked and poised for the chase, he turned and looked at me. This is after working and working and working with him since he was a little munchkin. 

However, in my amazement with his reaction I said "Good Boy!" and threw my arms up - which is his signal for release...so off he went after the cat. That was all my bad. Nothing to do with him. So we'll keep working on it. In this case I gave him a second or two to chase the cat (who was already gone) and then called him back.


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## Rylee (Mar 14, 2011)

I can feel your frustration... I got Rylee at 4 1/2 wks... I know way too young. Rylee has now been in training (personal one on one) since she was about 5 wks. She could barely see at the time but most of our training was for ME!!! We worked with the long line, then 6 ft. We have training on Friday's and social day/ bite work with all the other dogs and their owners on Sunday's. Rylee will be 3 months tomorrow and she is doing great. I on the other hand struggle a lot. Heel with my left, stop with right, holding her leash by the end and not like I am having a control freak moment, the biggest mistakes SHE makes..I have lead her right into. So for me, a deep breath andvtaking a mighty "Woosa" moment...ALOT... I have to relax myself constantly and remember she's a pup...
For every aggravating thing she does I take her out and play...then we work (practice, practice and more practice). Maybe just a straight line and a sit/stay and BREAK (her fav)..with a big ol' paycheck! (As simple as a pet or a tug at her toy). Rylee does 5-10 things that could tick me off within a day...but I remember how much pleasure she gives me, whether she is chasing the cat or showing off her obedience to her fellow "groupies" on Sundays. I have also noticed how fast she is growing and know I will miss that aggravating little bundle of joy so it makes me stand back, breath and smile....


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## trapper66 (Nov 16, 2010)

People need to stop being so serious. That's one thing wrong with this site so many people are so wound up about there pets. I think people need to take a step back and calm down, even the best of you get frustrated and stop being so, end of the world about the dogs. Everyone on this site loves the dogs and I never saw so many people so opinionated and serious. Sorry people just want help not to be judged by all.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Cheer up! I survived the shelter GSD who wasn't told he was a GSD. Think Jerry Garcia in a dog suit to the flying landshark fruitbat. 

We are much better now.


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## JustMeLeslie (Sep 15, 2010)

It's gonna be ok. I got my girl when she was 9 wks. old. There were times I thought "I'm not going to make it". I understand your frustration. Just give him time and at some point he will "get it". It will get better. 

My girl had trouble with the "come" command. I would get so mad b/c she would either ignore me or walk the other way. This would anger me so bad she wouldn't respond at all. She picked up on my frustration and we would get nowhere with her training. What I started doing was when I got mad I would just take a break and allow her free play time. This gave me a chance to cool off and her a chance to have some fun. Once I cooled off I would go back to her training and little bit by little bit I would make progress. It took time and patience for success. Jamie is very sensitive to my moods and if I tried to train w/ her while frustrated nothing would happen. 

Good luck with your boy and remember to take a breather, cool down and then go back to training.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Be patient and consistant. 

Puppies mature at different speeds.

Also, puppies respond better to some training methods, while other puppies respond better to other training methods. 

If you find yourself getting frustrated, stop, do something fun with the puppy, and the quit the session. 

Also, keep it very short. Attention spans are not that long. Do something a maximum of three times, and then do something else. 

Start and finish each session with something really fun. 

Use lots of praise and treats. 

Stop when the puppy is still looking for more. 

Good luck with your puppy. Hang in there, and with diligence, patience, and consistancy, in another nine years, your puppy will be the best dog ever.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

selzer;2091826Good luck with your puppy. Hang in there said:


> :rofl:


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## krystyne73 (Oct 13, 2010)

Sasha has brought me to tears of frustration! And she is almost 3 yrs old. I feel your pain!
Work on it now and don't give up. Private training is a lot better btw.
Sasha has been in 4 homes and Im determined to mold her into a well adjusted dog lol if it kills me or her!


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## suze (Mar 12, 2011)

I think it's also worth remembering when you feel like that, it's the bell saying your feeling overwhelmed walk away before you get to that point, especially with a human or animal.


Meltdowns putting " Ikea " things togeather !! No problem -


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

selzer said:


> Good luck with your puppy. Hang in there, and with diligence, patience, and consistancy, in another nine years, your puppy will be the best dog ever.


isn't that the truth!


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Lin said:


> Focus is a big thing for a puppy! Especially a high energy puppy like a GSD. My girl Emma is about 2 now, and she STILL has her focus all over the place much of the time. For example I make all of the dogs sit and wait for me to open the back door, and then they have to look at me and maintain eye contact before I release them to the backyard. My foster dog who has been here around a month slams his butt on the ground and stares at me until released. Emma sits, then stands, then sits, looks at me, looks at the sink, the bathroom door, the ceiling, me, the sink, the ceiling, the bathroom door... And around a bit more before she can maintain that eye contact long enough to be released. She knows what she needs to do. But focus is incredibly difficult for her, especially maintaining it completely! Maybe she'll be able to by 3


I haven't read the whole post but I just had to say that this cracked me up! I'm glad I am not the only one who's dog has ADD  Sasha KNOWS she has to sit and wait until I tell her before we go out to the garage, but she gets so excited because she knows we're going outside that she has to wiggle around, inch forward, squeak, get in the stance to bolt as soon as she's released, pretty much anything other than what she knows she needs to do lol! I'm hoping she out grows this, but I guess only time will tell lol


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I will add this thread to my list to read whenever I get puppy fever...


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## starrluvsjackson (Feb 24, 2011)

so many good replies and funny comments i would love to quote everyone lol..im feeling much better today and not letting jackson bother me too much ..9 years ay? hmm well i think i'll give him 10 ..It would be so nice if i could actually meet people with GSDs but its hard to join a dog club as my child is too young so i cant really take her out with me to do it..

Every time i have a moment like yesterday i will just re read this thread, take a deep breathe and talk to the dog later on 

im currently enquiring about private lessons and they do seem quite expensive so maybe i should just bare with him for a few months till i get my house and no longer need to pay rent so i can afford to do it..unless 6 months is too long to leave it? ive never tried training a pup before so i have nooo idea if them being older makes much difference..

ok now with focus..well the fact of the matter is i dont know how to teach focus thus there is none :/ advice pleaseeeeee?  (how do you get a dog to focus to teach focus if he wont well..focus? haha) all i can do is stick a treat in his face to get his attention..

has anyone heard of chet whomach?? i bought hs hands off clicker training course and it seems pretty good (just that jackson doesnt seem to progress much even with potty training and i dnt have a bell on the door either so ts hard) 

i have him coming and sitting and staying fine inside when he isnt hypo or distracted (and sees i have the clicker and treat) and he will come and sit outside only when he knows i have the treat (or when he feels like it)..i have been doing all this for a few weeks now, well only outside since the cat went but the cat has to come back so should be interesting as he tries eatng the cat..i have 'okay' as the release word but he still doesnt realise it means anythng yet..when it comes to putting his food down then sit and stay goes out the window soooo im thinking he isnt really understandng when i say stay either :/.. or he seems to forget it after i do it wth him (there was a comment about being labotomy dumb) yes it does seem to be that thats why i mentioned he seems stupid lol..

i just dont think the 'clicker' s really bridging the gap lke they say it should or somthing or maybe his progress is normal? its so hard for me to go thru every post and thread in the training section thats why its easy to make my own so if all these thngs have been said before sorry to be repetitive..do any of you use the clicker? what other training methods are there and should i just keep at it even tho it seems to be takng forever to click on? 

ooh i can hear him currently chewing on the house again as i type this bahaha now to get him to chew HIS toys but thats just not as fun heehee


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I hear the Clicker method is a very good.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so you have a hyper active dog who lacks focus , is not in tune with you and is not all that bright. You have to reduce it to what it is before you can know how to work with what you have. 

What were his sire and dam like. Is this a family / line trait.

What is his motivation.

Does he have too much freedom . Nothing in Life is Free is a good approach.

Does he have enough exercise with you being the source of it. 

Seems like he wanders around and entertains himself. You say he is chewing on the house as you write this, and you want to have him chew his toys.

I know you have a young child and that can be difficult . You had to give it some thought about how much extra time you had before you reached your breaking point.

Get a crate for constructive confinement. 
If you have a yard get yourself a little safe enclosure for the dog to be outside . At Costco a few weeks ago they had "AKC" brand welded wire 8 x 8 or 10 x 10 kennels with roof , easy to assemble for the riduculously cheap price of $399. That's not much more than some of the extra large great dane sized crates!

So you are going to take away some of this freedom .

He is going to be popping in and out of his little sanctuarys all day long . When he is in he can't do damage . When he comes out it will be at a time where you can dedicate time to him, put him on lead take him to the yard , take him for a quick jog to the corner. Each and every time he is out there will be something asked of him.
Simple things like being responsive to walking correctly , YOU, determining the direction , speed , distance. Along the way keep his mind active , or activate his mind and his attention by doing surprise requests for behaviour. He can sit inside the house ? good. Then he can sit when you are walking. Be consistent. Choose one side - right or left and always have him in the same position when he goes for that walk. Traditionally that position is on the left in heel position. If you walk him on a flexi lead and let him walk ahead and take YOU for the walk you have lost an opportunity that lays the foundation and gives you meaning , other than beeing a servant , provider , taking care of every whim the dog has. You have to give as much attention to the dog and you expect him to give to you. That means no slow walking because you are on the cell phone or texting messages. Leave the phone at home. No buds in the ear . See too many dog and walker disconnects , walking along as in different universes.
So you are going to vary your speed, fast , slow , normal , stop . No rhyme or reason . Dog has to pay attention and adjust to you. You keep him on his toes , keep surprising him. When you stop, he has to sit . YOU decide when you are going to move again. If it is 2 seconds after sitting , your choice, if you want to stay for 3 minutes , he has to maintain his sit for that long. Do about turns , left turns , right turns, fast, slow, sits etc. A grab bag , with some energy and focus. He will have to focus on you. If you are passing dogs , keep on passing . Keep his attention on you. He has a smarter (your mix breed) brother at home so he doesn't have to go and visit every dog. This is an exercise to get some attention and focus coming your way. Vary your praise from a touch , a tickle on his front, a verbal good boy , a little pinch of dried liver , even movement which is very exciting and endorphin producing. 
Bring him home and put him in his crate to think about things for a while. Even if it is 10 minutes . Then if you choose you bring him out . Keep him under supervision . Keep him surprised . You are in charge of his freedom. 
You are going to take away his options to not respond . You said in the yard he only comes to you if he knows you have a treat or when he feels like it . So what do you do let him wander around and please himself . I would go and get him , show him the behaviour I want. 
Less time with the other dog . 

At no time did I say anything about punishing or correcting. You are going to show him what it is that you want and -- you are positively going to get it , no way around it . Calm and assertive , fair and appreciative. 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

starrluvsjackson said:


> ok now with focus..well the fact of the matter is i dont know how to teach focus thus there is none :/ advice pleaseeeeee?  (how do you get a dog to focus to teach focus if he wont well..focus? haha) all i can do is stick a treat in his face to get his attention..


Okay, what you can do is to always have your clicker and treats on you at all times when you're around him. DON'T stick a treat in his face, keep them in your bag or pocket or wherever. Hang out and observe him as much as you can, and any time he looks at you - click/treat. That's it. You can use a verbal marker if you prefer. All you're doing is capturing behaviors that he's offering up freely, you're not asking him to do anything and you're not giving him any commands. In addition, you can click/treat for anything else he does that you like. I did it for sits and downs as well. If he doesn't understand the release word yet, say it and then toss a treat so he has to get up to get it, and then WAIT for him to sit or down again - click/treat. Repeat. You can do several mini sessions each day. Once he realizes that every time he looks at you, every time he comes towards you, every time he sits and every time he lays down he gets rewarded, he's going to start doing those things much more frequently. It's at that point that you can start putting them on cue by assigning a command to them, which you would do right before he does it. You can also use a food lure to move him into position, marking it with the clicker or your voice right as he does what you want (the second his butt hits the floor, for example, or the second he drops into a down) and then letting him have the treat.

For "watch" (or "watch me" or "focus" or whatever command you want to use), you can hold a treat (you can actually use his kibble as training treats if you like - feed him all or part of some of his meals this way) right in front of his nose and then WAIT. At first he's going to try and get it out of your hand, but eventually he's going to give up trying and look up at you to see what's going on. THAT is the exact second you would mark and give him the treat. You'll find it won't take all that many repetitions before he understands that the way to get the food is to ignore the food and look at you instead. The reason I like to capture focus behavior spontaneously and reward it, and why I like to teach watch without a command at first is that while I do want my dogs to look at me when I ask them too, I also want to build a strong default of focus, so they look to me even when I'm not telling them to. 



> ..when it comes to putting his food down then sit and stay goes out the window soooo im thinking he isnt really understandng when i say stay either...


How long are you trying to make him stay? For a young puppy I start with just a second and then I release. I barely take my hands off the bowl, and I work up slowly to being able to actually stand back up after I set the bowl down. Puppy butt comes up off the floor, so does the food bowl - over and over again. But make sure it's not too hard, he needs to be able to succeed. I've never not had a puppy able to do this within a day or two of trying, but I'm careful to work with the age and ability of the puppy and only gradually make it more challenging as he learns and matures.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

clicker method is only as good as the person using it , their timing and their understanding of how to use it.
In one class I attended there was a hilarious scene played out. The dog was a very bright , very adorable mini poodle . Originally a lady had come to class , but she had slipped and torn a ligament in her leg and had her foot in a cast . Her husband took over the classes. A very dignified man, at the top of his game in his profession , a well know hospital psychotherapist . You would think he understood behaviour . Well he had this dog and a clicker , and that dog made a monkey out him. He would be madly clicking away , frustrated, clicking and throwing rewards at the dog . Meanwhile this little white mini poodle was jumping around like a circus flea or humping his leg. 

You have to catch the second the behaviour is offered with the clicker to shape the behaviour.


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## starrluvsjackson (Feb 24, 2011)

carmspack said:


> He would be madly clicking away , frustrated, clicking and throwing rewards at the dog . Meanwhile this little white mini poodle was jumping around like a circus flea or humping his leg.
> .


 bahahahaha... yes i do know how to use a clicker properly theres no problem there  he does do what i ask its just the fact it doesnt seem to sink in is all i mean.. not sure about his parents as a friend bought him from a freidn at at work for me (even picked him out for me) whch really isnt the most convenient thing but gsds are rarely advertised in this state unless you know the people who have a litter..

ok when i take him outside he is on the lead at all times as i dont have a closed in front yard..when inside he has the entrance area and i let him in the kitchen with me but only when im in there so he doesnt have too much freedom to just run around and do what he likes but he can get to the corner that he waa having a chew on, he rarely does it(i use to have his lead attached to a baby gate)..ummm i DID have a crate but he chewed a hole in the mesh door one day :/ need to invest in a different sort..and im thinking about getting a portable dog yard when i can save up..im not sure about an outside kennel where i live i wouldnt trust someone not to come and take him.. 
i also HAD a dog previously..she went when i was pregnant..but he does have my friends dogs to play with when we visit..

yes i have actually been doing somthing to that effect cassidys mom with the holdng the treat and waitng for the moment he looks at me..just didnt realise that was the focus thing i needed to be doing lol..so i just keep doing that and i;ll try the holding it in my hand and letting hm go for it but not give it too him till he looks at me wondering whats going on lol..

in regards to staying well he doesnt even stay for a sec so have to keep working on that..

just took a break and when i walked past him thought id try..on the third go he didnt even try and lick/eat my hand he just sat and looked at me ..wow it really is an amazing feeling even tho it was a small thing it didnt take him long 

i think we both need to be in the right frame of mind when i attempt any training lol..


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