# Would like to get a first dog as GSD ...



## omnafees

Hi all,

I'm looking to get a first dog and am quite interested in the GSD because of its size and because its a natural guard/watchdog.

I have four boys, eldest 9 and youngest almost a year and we're pretty much an insanely active family.

Although I've got a busy day-job, I end up having a couple of hours free time daily that I'm thinking would be well spent training, taking care of and befriending a GSD. I'd definitely want my older two boys involved with the care. Further, we try and avoid TV/Movies as a family and so we want an additional rewarding activity to do in leisure time and a GSD is starting to look attractive because of the love one gets back.

I intend to keep the GSD in its own space in a kennel in the garage and on lead outside the home in the front or back. Don't want it to come inside the home too often, but will definitely spend time with it whenever possible. The boys and I, when not at work/school or doing homework/chores, are also mostly outside anyways so we'll get to see him often. I am thinking that GSD's are a good breed for this type of setup and comments from owners are welcome.


Some of the purposes I am planning on for the new member of our family :

1) Guard dog activity, on command and against suspicious behavior at night, though not barking senselessly at neighbors or harmless strangers.

2) Lots of action - games at the park, doing crazy exercises and just having a good time. Plan to get a treadmill, and wouldn't mind the GSD to get on it ... We also live near some hiking trails and the summers here in Waterloo, Ontario (and surrounding areas) are gorgeous !

3) One of my primary reasons is that its pretty apparent to me in the family that all of us, including my wife, tend to get into our own things and life and sometimes, despite having so many people around me, I get lonely and it seems that a GSD gives back that companionship at not too much cost (of time and money).

I would definitely consider formal training and classes, but we hope to train it ourselves as well. 

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks !

Omar


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## sagelfn

omnafees said:


> Some of the purposes I am planning on for the new member of our family :
> 
> 1) Guard dog activity, on command and against suspicious behavior at night, though not barking senselessly at neighbors or harmless strangers.
> 
> 2) Lots of action - games at the park, doing crazy exercises and just having a good time. Plan to get a treadmill, and wouldn't mind the GSD to get on it ... We also live near some hiking trails and the summers here in Waterloo, Ontario (and surrounding areas) are gorgeous !
> 
> 3) One of my primary reasons is that its pretty apparent to me in the family that all of us, including my wife, tend to get into our own things and life and sometimes, despite having so many people around me, I get lonely and it seems that a GSD gives back that companionship at not too much cost (of time and money).
> 
> I would definitely consider formal training and classes, but we hope to train it ourselves as well.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> Omar


Most of us will advise against not having the dog live in the home. If you have never trained a dog before I strongly advise you to take some OB classes. Not only does it teach the dog, it teaches you. It is also an excellent way to socialize and train with distractions.

1) GSDs are not mentally mature until 2-3 yrs of age. Until then they are not capable of protection work. If you expect your GSD to do this you will also have to train it to protect which is a lifetime job. Not really a family pet type of dog.

2) Exercise is good mental exercise is great. 

3) GSDs typically do bond strongly with their people. They are expensive. Quality food, training, toys, chew items, grooming, etc... They require a TON of work. A few hours a day will not cut it.


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## GSD07

omnafees said:


> ...it seems that a GSD gives back that companionship at not too much cost (of time and money).


 Here is where you got it wrong. GSD does not function well as companion that is taken out of the drawer only when needed. It won't work that way.


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## sexyman

Ageed. I would never leave mine outside because he became a really good friend and he needs constant attention and water. I can leave him out for a few hours. But they drink a lot of water. They also spill it a lot. They are alot like and been compared to a 5 year old child. They can be taught to be a good indoor dog.


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## sagelfn

GSD07 said:


> Here is where you got it wrong. GSD does not function well as companion that is taken out of the drawer only when needed. It won't work that way.


:thumbup: Very well put


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## W.Oliver

A GSD is not like a typical dog.......

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...g-nightmare-seeking-moral-support-advice.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/146252-nothing-working-stop-biting.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/163417-snarling-biting-what-do.html

...compound that with this being your first dog, followed by notion you can pull it off "at not too much cost (of time and money)"......

What you have brewing here is a recipe for disaster.

STOP! The worst thing you could do to yourself and your family, and a puppy at this juncture is allow yourself to make an impulse buy. Gratification of perceived immediate need is a mistake.

Take some time and research what a GSD is....what types are there, understand temperament, and what a GSD requires....how to shop for a breeder.....

When you can make an informed decision, you very well may decide on a Golden Retriever.

Best of luck.


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## asja

German Shepherds are not a good first dog, if you've never had a dog before. Just not. Try easier dogs. They don't do well locked in a garage away from their family. German Shepherds are great family dogs, but they want to live with their family, not separated in a garage. I can't stress that enough. Do not keep your dog in the garage, keep the dog in the house. You really turned me off by repeatedly calling dogs "it". Dogs are not an "it". If you want an "it" then buy a stuffed animal, not a live one. You'll never get a good dog if you separate the dog and only interact with him/her occasionally. That's how so many dogs end up in shelters.


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## Danielle609

I don't think that any family animal showed be segregated from the rest of the family. At that point it just makes them sound like a toy that you can just go grab off the shelf when you want to. Just my opinion. I know I couldn't do that to any animal of mine.


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## sexyman

Hey my fish do just fine. The cats keep them company. LOL


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## omnafees

Wow - I appreciate the responses. I was being totally honest and I am thankful the responses. Maybe a GSD isnt the right breed for us. We'll keep looking. 

Any opinions on Doberman's ? 

Thanks 
Omar


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## asja

Dobermans are more needy than German Shepherds. Same thing, don't keep a dog in the garage.


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## sagelfn

Dobermans...same thing. Another breed made to work with people not on their own.


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## wildo

asja said:


> German Shepherds are not a good first dog, if you've never had a dog before. Just not. Try easier dogs. They don't do well locked in a garage away from their family. German Shepherds are great family dogs, but they want to live with their family, not separated in a garage. I can't stress that enough. Do not keep your dog in the garage, keep the dog in the house. You really turned me off by repeatedly calling dogs "it". Dogs are not an "it". If you want an "it" then buy a stuffed animal, not a live one. You'll never get a good dog if you separate the dog and only interact with him/her occasionally. That's how so many dogs end up in shelters.


I agree with only the middle part of this. My GSD was (is) my first dog, and she has been the most wonderful, incredible, fulfilling part of my life. Is she perfect? No. Was she hard to train? Well, not really- but I was (am) dedicated to her training- and she is a lot of _work_ to train. My friends OFTEN tell me how great, well behaved, impressive, and wonderful my dog is. She is allowed at events where others' pets are not allowed. Why? Because I've spent a TON of time working with her and building as solid a dog as I can. If you can't dedicate this time to build a solid dog- then perhaps a GSD is not right for you.

GSDs are a lot of work. But getting one from a quality breeder (something I didn't do) is going to make your life easier and improve the trainability of the dog. I don't see any reason that a first time dog owner couldn't choose a GSD- *assuming* they've done their homework, understand what they are getting into, and are dedicated to training. They are wonderful animals and any quality, reputable breeder should be able to help you find a pet-quality companion animal.

I also disagree with your rant about using the pronoun "it." Give me a break... The word was not misused. Come on... You used "they" to identify the dogs:


asja said:


> *They* don't do well locked in a garage away from their family. German Shepherds are great family dogs, but *they* want to live with their family, not separated in a garage.


Why can you use "they" but the OP can't use "it" to refer to a singular? That's a silly argument.

Everything else you said- I totally agree.


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## wildo

Not to mention- getting a GSD from a responsible breeder is likely going to buy you the ability to talk to your breeder and gain their experience and advice on training issues. At least so I've seen it stated here on this forum... A lot of breeders have email lists, private FB pages, etc.


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## asja

Because "it" is a thing. Dogs are not things.


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## wildo

You're joking, right?

Not only did he previously refer to the dog, therefore justifying the use of "it," that specific word can also certainly refer to an animal.

Google Dictionary: It
*it*
pronoun 

Used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified
- a room with two beds in it
- this approach is refreshing because it breaks down barriers

Referring to an animal or child of unspecified sex
- she was holding the baby, cradling it and smiling into its face


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## sna1987

If you don't know gender you can use "he." It may not be politically correct, but it is gramatically correct, or if you care about being politically correct you could say "he or she." Better than "it" either way.


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## omnafees

I'm sorry but this subsequent discussion is just too out of this world. I did use "him" at one point though LOL !


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## wildo

omnafees said:


> I'm sorry but this subsequent discussion is just too out of this world. I did use "him" at one point though LOL !


I just thought it unfair that you would be called out while _properly_ using the English language.


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## omnafees

wildo said:


> I just thought it unfair that you would be called out while _properly_ using the English language.


I totally agree with you. I'm just a little bit floored at how far people go with their sensitivities. Nonetheless, on a more relevant point, id like to talk to a breeder directly like you suggested. 

Are there any in and around Kitchener Waterloo, Ontario ?

Omar


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## tintallie

W.Oliver said:


> A GSD is not like a typical dog.......
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...g-nightmare-seeking-moral-support-advice.html
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/146252-nothing-working-stop-biting.html
> 
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/163417-snarling-biting-what-do.html
> 
> ...compound that with this being your first dog, followed by notion you can pull it off "at not too much cost (of time and money)"......
> 
> What you have brewing here is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> STOP! The worst thing you could do to yourself and your family, and a puppy at this juncture is allow yourself to make an impulse buy. Gratification of perceived immediate need is a mistake.
> 
> Take some time and research what a GSD is....what types are there, understand temperament, and what a GSD requires....how to shop for a breeder.....
> 
> When you can make an informed decision, you very well may decide on a Golden Retriever.
> 
> Best of luck.


Please don't recommend someone get a Golden Retriever if they are going to put their dog in the garage!  Golden Retrievers tend to be velcro dogs just as much as German Shepherds and are more work in terms of grooming (unless you have a long hair GSD). They need to be near their family and be involved heavily in daily life.

GSDs are indeed mouthy landsharks and mouthing can be misconstrued as a bite on a child if not supervised carefully or if the child is not properly how to interact with a large dog.


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## sagelfn

Sending someone a PM about this thread from your area. Not sure how close their breeder is.


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## wildo

Sorry- I can't help you there. But if I can quote a forum mod:

Best thing is to go to this site ----> Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder and see how really prepared you are.


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## rjThor

Great loyal dogs, but they have to be kept close to the family(pack)so he or she can feel part of the family, I'm a single father so I really only have a few hrs. after n before work to spend with Thor, but it's quality time with him, right now that it's summer my son spends a whole bunch of time with him, and talk about a 12yr old and a 7 1/2 month pup. the terror they create together, but they are very close, oh and before I forget they are known as land sharks for a reason, especially when they are pups and have been brought home for the first few months and a house full of lil boys. I would just make sure you are just as loyal to your GSD as you want him to be loyal to you, keep your GSD inside with you n your family, just get him a crate a big one, you will fall in love with the breed, and if treated n raised right, will fall in love with you and your family. Good luck


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## W.Oliver

asja said:


> Because "it" is a thing. Dogs are not things.


Actually, by law, they are property....ie, things. Mine and yours are family, but for many, they are things.


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## elisabeth_00117

Hi there, 

I am in Kitchener-Waterloo as well and own 2 German Shepherds who were from a kennel out this way (Arthur).

If you are interested, you are more than welcome to come out and watch us work the dogs (we train in schH and do herding) as well as meet my crew in a more casual way (hike or a walk, etc.). 

I have a showline - working (1/2 showlines 1/4 DDR 1/4 West German working lines) line cross as well as a pure working lines (1/2 Czech 1/4 DDR 1/4 West German working lines).

I also have a few friends with German Showlines and another good friend (who actually is on this forum) who just brought home a VERY NICE pup from Bill Kulla who is working lines.

I have a 2 year old male, a 15 week old female (LANDSHARK!!!) and my friend who lives in my building has a 8 week old male.

Just PM (private message) me if your interested in coming out and spending time with the dogs. We are always happy to introduce our pups to everyone and show what this breed is all about. You will have plenty of variety within lines to meet as well as ages.


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## W.Oliver

tintallie said:


> Please don't recommend someone get a Golden Retriever if they are going to put their dog in the garage!


You're right.....I should have suggested a pet rock.


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## elisabeth_00117

I would just like to add (to late to edit my post) that I would be more than happy to answer questions for you, and discuss care and what training I know.. and put you in touch with the right people as well (trainers, breeders, etc.). Just shoot me a PM.


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## trudy

Omar, to have a great dog the dog, any breed or mix therein, must live inside with the family. I would guess your wife is NOT on board with this, get her on board too, instead of a puppy check out rescues and shelters, as long as the dog lives inside and you have a fenced yard you should be able to be OK'd. 

Kids need to be trained to do well with dogs. Dogs need the same training to be good with kids. Getting a pup that jumps and nips, and all breeds do this, they are puppies, can turn off the kids and make them scared of dogs, or lash out and hurt a pup, then when the pup retailiates the pup is given up to a shelter. I think GS are great dogs and Ok for some first time owners BUT, at this time I would say DO NOT get a pup, any breed, until the decision is made to have the dog live inside, then save a large amount fo $$ for classes and vets and supplies, not to mention the purchase price, and remember you get what you pay for, you might find a cheap/free pup but the chances are it will cost in vets or training/socializing. Then read books about the different breeds, all breeds were bred for a purpose, find what fits your purpose, life style and in a while, you may be ready, don't rush it. And when you do post and I'll send the list of reccommended classes, my daughter who lives in Kitchener has been checking out obedience classes, agility classes, handling classes, etc to socialize and train her puppy, she has knowledge.


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## Good_Karma

Omar, Elisabeth has made you a wonderful offer. She can definitely tell you what it takes to raise a dog that will be an asset rather than a liability to your family. I wouldn't rule out a GSD as a great pet for your active family, but like others have said, they do require a lot of training, extra socialization, and it really would be best if they lived in your home as a part of your family. Getting a dog from a really good breeder is a hugely important thing too. You will want a dog with excellent nerves and a solid temperament. Best of luck to you if you decide on a GSD.


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## doggiedad

after reading your post i don't know if a dog
is right for your household. you want a GSD dog for protection.
some GSD's are protective some aren't. some you can train
to be protective some you can't. you want to crate your
dog and leave it in the garage. does that really sound right to you???
the dog has to be near you so it can learn, it has to be near
you so you can train and socialize. the couple hours of time
you sit aside for your dog isn't enough. you and your wife have to be involved with the dog 24/7. the way you plan on caring for your dog
isn't right no matter what breed.

you and your wife have to totally committ to the dog. having a pup
is a total inconvenience but you have to committ to the inconvenience.
there's no time set aside for the dog. the dog is #1. after the dog
is well trained and highly socialized you get 5 minutes to breathe, maybe.


omnafees said:


> Wow - I appreciate the responses. I was being totally honest and I am thankful the responses. Maybe a GSD isnt the right breed for us. We'll keep looking.
> 
> Any opinions on Doberman's ?
> 
> Thanks
> Omar


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## BGSD

This is a bit off-topic, but...you guys need to be less judgmental with new users and especially new dog owners. This guy hasn't had a dog before, so how's he supposed to know everything that more experienced dog owners know? And why is everyone focusing on the word "it"?

I love this forum, but people can be very condescending to new members and especially new dog owners who ask for help and guidance.


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## elisabeth_00117

BGSD said:


> This is a bit off-topic, but...you guys need to be less judgmental with new users and especially new dog owners. This guy hasn't had a dog before, so how's he supposed to know everything that more experienced dog owners know? And why is everyone focusing on the word "it"?
> 
> I love this forum, but people can be very condescending to new members and especially new dog owners who ask for help and guidance.


I'm pretty sure I just offered for this guy to come out and meet me and my dogs and to watch us train. 

I don't know him but am willing to share what I know with him and allow him to be around my dogs. Just sayn'.


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## JakodaCD OA

And I also think they should take elizabeth up on her offer,,If you've never lived with a gsd, but are only going by what you see on TV or read,,well that's kinda fantasy world

These dogs do NOT do well separated/isolated from their family,,I wouldn't even think of leaving my gsd alone in a garage, she'd have a hissy because she wants to be in the middle of whatever is going on. 

It sounds like you have a few young kids, and are very active,, having a gsd puppy can be your worst toddler in the house With that, you'd be adding another child that needs constant supervision as well. 

I would contact elizabeth, and listen to how much time she puts into her dogs and she doesn't have kids))


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## BGSD

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I'm pretty sure I just offered for this guy to come out and meet me and my dogs and to watch us train.
> 
> I don't know him but am willing to share what I know with him and allow him to be around my dogs. Just sayn'.


I didn't mean everyone.


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## scuba_bob

omnafees said:


> Wow - I appreciate the responses. I was being totally honest and I am thankful the responses. Maybe a GSD isnt the right breed for us. We'll keep looking.
> 
> Any opinions on Doberman's ?
> 
> Thanks
> Omar


My last dog was a Doberman and their an amazing dog but they're very needy and need and want to be around their family all the time, which are things I do like cause I spend a ton of time with my dog. 
Also, Dobermans are expensive to buy, you're in Ontario most Dobermans in that area are going for $2500 from a good breeder. Dobermans also have many health issues in the breed the big killer for them is DCM and seems to be in every line and if the dog develops it, good chance it will, it cost me close to $150 a month on pills and not including the vets bills to find it which was near $1000 and then the follow up visits. In your 1st post you said your looking for a cheap dog Doberman isn't cheap... trust me.
I don't know of any breeds that do well with being away from it's family for long periods of time and is expected to bond strongly. I really don't think a dog is right for you...


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## Two

wildo said:


> I just thought it unfair that you would be called out while _properly_ using the English language.


^ :wub:


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## x0emiroxy0x

Just thought I would point out that it doesn't matter if this is this persons first
Dog... As everyone always points out, German shepherds are different from all other dogs. 

Why should someone have to get a golden retriever first if they want a German shepherd?

Rocky was my first dog and I am a great mom to him. I might even be a better mom to him then someone else who has had two German shepherds. 

I don't like golden retrievers at all and to be honest, I have always disliked dogs in general since I was a child. They all seemed dumb, annoying, and loved anyone who would pet them.

Then I met my first German shepherd... It let me pet him but didn't crave attention from me. It only really wanted attention from its owner. It seemed so intelligent and was so well behaved... I researched the breed for an entire year and started volunteering at the animal shelter because I realized not all dogs are dumb and annoying (as the child version of me believed)

Why should I have "practiced" with a dog I didn't even want? Wouldn't that make me a bad owner??

I am on my iPhone and can't scroll up to see what I have already written so sorry for typos and repeated thoughts. 

I just wanted to let people know that rocky is my first dog but I have given him the best life and just because someone has had another dog first doesn't mean they would be better owning a German shepherd than me.


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## vat

You have a great opportunity to meet a member and their dogs I would take it. Also no matter what breed you decide on in the end ALL dogs need to be with the family. If your family simply can not let a dog live in the house I would reconsider getting a dog. I am not saying that the dog can not be in the garage when your away but he really should be with you when your home.


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## Jessiewessie99

I would take Elizabeth up on her offer. I know I would! Her Stark is HANDSOME!


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## Liesje

I think the OP could do very well with the right GSD if some things were adjusted. While all of MY dogs live primarily indoors with me, I don't buy into black/white "all GSDs MUST live indoors at all times" in order to be happy, well cared for, and bonded. I'm OK with the idea of a nice, safe, secure kennel, especially considering how many of us that keep our GSDs "indoors" also use rooms, pens, gates, and/or crates for safety and confinement. I'm not really OK with putting the dog on a leash out front or back unless it is being supervised or being active with someone at the time. I think GSDs do far, far worse as a chained-out/tied-out dog than being in a kennel some of the time. I just think this forum often has a bad case of "do as I say not as I do". We continuously promote and praise several breeders and members that crate/rotate and/or kennel their dogs. IMO owning a decent dog is not rocket science. I've known many dogs that are in far better condition mentally and physically being confined or kenneled than many dogs that have free reign inside a home.

The GSD was my very first dog and will probably be my only breed. We do have a mutt that is more of a family companion and will probably always have a shelter/rescue mutt for the family but my dogs always have been and always will be GSDs. My first dog/GSD was absolutely the best dog for me at the time. I got *exactly* what I was looking for and nothing was any more or less difficult than I'd prepared for.


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## omnafees

Again, I thank everyone for their useful responses. Elizabeth : I'm interested and I'll try and contact you soon.

I can't help thinking however, that a lot of the responses are from people without young kids, or with any kids at all. I understand that the GSD may be a very "intimate" breed, but what if GSDs with owners without kids are simply reflecting their owner's undivided attention ? Its kind of like that with people at least - I've known friends who didn't have siblings growing up and they are naturally a bit needy and selfish of their parents or some other person in their life (in fact, there was a study done on Chinese people who grew up without siblings due to population control laws that indicated these traits). An intelligent animal may not be different from this ...

I think someone suggested for some reason that my wife isn't on board ... that's not true, but we both have limits about having a dog in the house all the time just now as our youngest two boys are too young. And its not just for their sake ... my boys need supervision and they might harm a dog. I don't see why providing a dog its own space and checking in often can be too bad. But then again, I understand that GSDs may just be a "needy" sort of breed. Even if that isn't the case really and GSDs can learn *not* to be the center of the world, we may very well get a badly trained dog in the end that will be hard to have around. So we've got stuff to think about.


Omar


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## Jessiewessie99

omnafees said:


> Again, I thank everyone for their useful responses. Elizabeth : I'm interested and I'll try and contact you soon.
> 
> I can't help thinking however, that a lot of the responses are from people without young kids, or with any kids at all. I understand that the GSD may be a very "intimate" breed, but what if GSDs with owners without kids are simply reflecting their owner's undivided attention ? Its kind of like that with people at least - I've known friends who didn't have siblings growing up and they are naturally a bit needy and selfish of their parents or some other person in their life (in fact, there was a study done on Chinese people who grew up without siblings due to population control laws that indicated these traits). An intelligent animal may not be different from this ...
> 
> I think someone suggested for some reason that my wife isn't on board ... that's not true, but we both have limits about having a dog in the house all the time just now as our youngest two boys are too young. And its not just for their sake ... my boys need supervision and they might harm a dog. I don't see why providing a dog its own space and checking in often can be too bad. But then again, I understand that GSDs may just be a "needy" sort of breed. Even if that isn't the case really and GSDs can learn *not* to be the center of the world, we may very well get a badly trained dog in the end that will be hard to have around. So we've got stuff to think about.
> 
> 
> Omar


There are people here on this board who own young kids AND have GSDs and don't have a problem. I would make another thread asking how those people are able to do that.

I currently live in a household with everyone above the age of 10 with 2 GSDs, but we do have family members who are young and the dogs are perfectly fine with them. My dogs have never torn up anything in the house. We can trust our dogs fully when we are not home. They are free to roam the house as they wish. They are house trained, the don't mark, they get off furniture when told(Yes, we let them on the couches and beds), they don't tear or break anything. Compared to my other friends and family dogs, who mark the house, who have damaged stuff in the house, don't listen when told to get off etc, my dogs are pretty darn well behaved. 

Alot of it depends on training. Many people here recommend crate training. My dogs weren't crate trained, but I definitely recommend to anyone, especially people with kids.


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## Danielle609

Omar,
I do not currently have a dog yet, so I cannot speak from experience, but I do have a 1.5 year old at home. I am planning on getting a pup within the next year, so she will still be young. You are correct about worrying about the dogs safety as well as the kids. I will never leave the 2 unsupervised, but if you are in the house and able to supervise I don't think there should be a problem. I hear that GSD puppies have a "landshark" phase, so I am completely prepared for a few battle wounds, hopefully more on me than on my daughter  But if I can't be around to supervise then my puppy will be put into the kennel. Or at least that is the goal. Everything always seems so much simpler until you are put into the situation  

But good luck with whatever your choice is!


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## trudy

I had multiple dogs, then had kids, raised 3 kids while still having dogs, mostly inside and always loose as part of the family. The kids grew up knowing the rules of not hurting dogs and the body language that make dogs listen, they are calm and firm. As my kids are grown and moved out and have their own dogs, I go to school yards, parks, soccer games etc, to keep the dogs used to kids and yelling, running, ball throwing etc, and that the dogs must respect kids and remain calm. 

This is why they must be inside and I personally think a back yard run is way better than locked in a dark garage. Also in the garage how will you know the dog needs to relieve itself?? Then the smell if they begin going inside the garage would make that an issue. Remember dogs grow quickly and if you get an older already partially trained dog or pup, you will still find the bond there if you put in the effort of including the dog into the family, and less accidents. 

WE have had Belgian Shepherds and German Shepherds so always large dogs with the ability to guard and the ability to bite. We don't encourage either, we do tons of socializing pups and training and just living as an obedient family members which mean we have been able to enjoy our dogs where ever we go. That isn't to say they wouldn't protect just that they will unlikely ever be needed, a person with a well trained large dog will NOT be threatened, nor will anyone break into your home. Good luck and again I suggest reading lots and visiting lots of places. Also remember some breeders breed for different attributes and so careful checking into the breeder and their goals and ideas, also ensue that they have proof of health clearances, for German Shepherds at least hip and elbows xrayed and certified as such with OVC(Guelph) or OFA (US)


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## damaya

Icon was my 2nd dog. Duke was my first dog and he was a GSD also. The advice on this site is excellent, and from people that have way more experience than I. Here is my 2 cents FWIW.
Everybody in the family should be involved in the desicion. They will all be effected by a GSD in the mix and it will take everybody in the family to keep the dog satisfied. I do work a regular 8 hour day. My wife works only a couple days a week so that helps occupy Ike's time considerably. She is in the habit of taking him every where she can and when she is at home he is following her up and down the hallway, to the laundry room, to the basement, outside. He loves to be with his "people".

On the days she works I get home first and the moment the garage door is open he squeezes under it bouncing around, talking and immediately looking for a toy so you can throw it for him. I usually don't make it in the house with my stuff until we have had 15 -30 minutes of "glad you're home time" with him. After that he follows me in to change clothes then straight to the door to go to the pond, field, front or back yard to play. A good hour of play time there. If I go somewhere in the evening he goes too if at all possible. For dinner with the family he comes in goes to his crate and eats his there. He is fine with that as long as he hears us in the next room.

I do leave him in the garage during the day, but his garage set-up is quite nice. The entire garage is puppy proofed, doggy door to the outside fenced in area, complete with swimming pool and room to play. The garage is equipped with 3 fans (out of reach) to move some air, and is not bad at all even on the hottest days. He has an abundance of toys to choose from, but has his favorites, and when I know it's going to be a scorcher I will put 1 gallon blocks of ice in his pool in the morning.

The only time he has been tied up on a lead is if I go to mow at my mom's house and the girls are not with me to keep him busy. I could not imagine keeping him tied up for any length of time. Winding down the day I take him out for some BO training and some ball chasing to finish him off. By 10 pm a nice treat with peanut butter and a "get in your crate" and his day is done. He has beeen great in the crate since the day we brought him home, and thinks of it as "his space". He usually makes no noise what so ever during the night. When I get him out in the mornings around 6 am he is such a baby. He comes right out lays perfectly still in the floor, and actually lets me pet him without it turning into a wrestling match. That only lasts about 10 minutes though, and then he is ready to go. I try to spend about an hour each morning with him before I go. 

All that said I cannot imagine spending any less time than I do with him and still have a managable dog. These guys need massive amounts of people time, and if you can't give it to them I see where they could become a problem. If it rains and outside work/play is not do-able we go to the basement or "his" garage and do what we can. You DO NOT want to skip exercise more than a day. 

Like I said there are some highly experienced people on this site, and the info found here can be a very useful tool.


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## GSD07

Omar, you are still missing the point but I'm sure you'll understand if you actually meet a few GSD. These dogs are not needy, they are not the center of the universe or receivers of undivided attention. They are bred to be your partners, not babies. They need constant interaction with you and the family to do their part (protect, love, support), but you owe them your part of the deal (care, love, training, respect). Without both parts your GSD/owner relationship will be disfunctional. 

BTW, the best thing a young kid can have is a GSD next to him from early on in his life.


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## Liesje

To me kids and dog is a separate issue from how to keep the dog (kennel, garage kennel, crate, etc). If you have kids and a GSD, then you must get the right dog for your family, and your dog and kids must respect each other and become acclimated to each other. This is true regardless of whether you pop the dog in a kennel while you grocery shop or put him in a crate inside the house.  In fact I think there could be more harm in kenneling the dog _because _of kids and neither kids nor dog getting enough supervised interactions to really be safe together and be partners. Why would the dog respect and protect something/someone they do not have access to?


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## Ace952

Problem with many as it has been stated in other threads, people nowadays get dogs and want the dog to adapt to their life and lifestyle. Really the opposite should be happening. You have to adapt your life to the dog. 

Those are 2 seperate mindsets and the latter way of thinking is (IMO) the only way it can work peacefully with all parties happy.

It like having a child. You don't have a child and then expect the child to adjust to your life. Rather you adjust yours to its needs, etc. Samething with a dog especially a GSD.


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## Ace952

Sorry but this is a train wreck in the making.

You even say that your boys "might harm the dog" so it needs its own place. Then you say, "check in on the dog often". You haven't had any dogs nor trained any (especially in PP) but you want to train it yourself?!?!? From reading what you have typed, you don't want a dog. You want/need a bodyguard. Might as well get a junkyard dog and tie to a pole in the yard. That way will make you "feel safe" and you can check in on time to time to make sure they have water and food.

Only downside is that if a criminal breaks in your home......not too much the dog can do to help when he is in the garage unless you want him to protect your golf clubs and motor oil.

Dog would end up on craigslist in a year. I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending a breeder knowing how you want to keep the dog.


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## Verivus

Omar, any dog can do very well with children and live in the home as long as they are being supervised and both child and dog are taught how to interact safely. I would find this much better then just leaving the dog outside because you fear for your children's safety because the dog is not learning how to interact with them and vice versa. Any dog you get will probably be no more then a family pet so there is no reason to leave it outside. You want a dog to protect your family? Make sure your dog has a strong BOND with your family. 

From my experience, most people who have an outside-only dog tends to not put enough time and effort into their dog. Of course they all had the very best intentions when they first took him home, but like the saying goes "out of sight, out of mind". Their dog becomes forgotten and tied or kenneled 24 hrs a day while only interacting with their owners briefly while they come out to feed and give water. The kids found the dog delightful as a puppy, but once the puppy phase is over and the dog is now a full-sized adult they no longer wish to play with him. The dog ends up learning little to no manners and just becomes a 'nuisance' to them and eventually the dog is dropped off at the pound or pawned off on craigslist. Of course this is a very general statement, but it is also very true across the nation and this is the very thing dog people do not want happening.


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## kiya

I don't have children so I can't speak about that but I have had plenty of dogs in my life. It would be the same as if a family had an infant and they kept him/her locked in thier room. The child would not develop "social graces" if you want to call it that. A puppy (any breed) just like any child needs to be exposed to life, to the world, to everything and taught in order for puppy to grow into a well rounded dog. And if this puppy was kept confined to a kennel or separate room what do you think would happen when you want to bring puppy out? The poor thing wouldn't be able to contain himself/herself. The people would feel they have an uncontrollable animal, most likely feel they need to get rid of "it". Because the puppy was never taught how to behave or how to act in our world of rules and boundries. Sad to say that is a major reason there are so many dogs dumped in shelters.


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## sadie2010

BGSD said:


> This is a bit off-topic, but...you guys need to be less judgmental with new users and especially new dog owners. This guy hasn't had a dog before, so how's he supposed to know everything that more experienced dog owners know? And why is everyone focusing on the word "it"?
> 
> I love this forum, but people can be very condescending to new members and especially new dog owners who ask for help and guidance.


 
I agree. At times it seems everyone gangs up on a new poster and attacks. I think a little more sensiblity in our responses is warranted. 

I know most everyone is just trying to offer advice, but please do it in a more compassionate and understanding way. 

No need to scare off a newbie.


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## Bowdoin1998

I just got a new male GSD 3 weeks ago and have children like yourself. I have a 6 year old boy and twins that are almost 4. My last GSD died a couple years ago and I waited to get another GSD until my twins were closer to 4 in order to ensure that they would understand the dogs needs and respect his space. These Pups are landsharks and bite everything! And up to now, everyone has been fantastic together but he is a lot of work and is not left alone except during his crate naps during the day and his crate time at night. From my experience, GSD's are the best dogs with kids and families, but the bonding is formed by spending time with the dog....a lot of time. More time than most other breeds required. This has always included sitting under tables, watching dinner be made, sleeping when my wife and I are watching a movie and everything else in between. MY GSD's have always been moody, just like a family member, and are sad if they are left alone to long and are not included when they know you are close.


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## selzer

I do not have children, but my parents have some grand children, and Cujo. 

Cujo is a big GSD. Tall, leggy, oversized, 86 pounds, and never around children until over two years old save Thanksgiving and Christmas when he was saturated. Then my sister adopted a ten month old girl and a 12 month old girl, one liked animals, one was already afraid of dogs. My parents also had a nice benign ancient English Setter. The girl who was afraid of dogs whole face would light right up when we said Pip or Pippy (the ES), and her face would be full of consternation when we said "Cujo" -- untrained, unsocialized, over-sized GSD. 

Since they lived an hour and a half away, and did not come over often, one would think that we would crate the dog while they were there, or baby gate him in some room. Mom would not hear of it. They put a pet yard up in the living room, FOR THE GIRLS! Little Elena loved her toys and books in the safety of the 30 inch high pet yard. Cujo had the run of the house, and he was NOT perfect. He did NOT like letting the girls into see Grandma. He did not bite, but he would use his gigantic body and litterally body block them. 

He snapped at the one for jumping on him, and my mother admonished the little girl, and explained that she hurt the dog. And she understood this. And by the end of the visit Cujo was her best friend again. Pip died. So Cujo was the only dog. The kids were knocked down at first, and Cujo would put his over long toe nails on them and hold them down!, but after a few visits he seemed to understand that he had to be careful around the girls, and they started following him around holding on to his butt. 

They are four now. And my little sister has a couple of babies, the 18 month old baby walks around the house and Cujo is perfect with her, his giant tail does not knock her down. The both have the run of the house, and the last time the little girls were here, they had put blankets on the floor and lay down with Cujo, covering him up. 

This is just a GSD with occasional babies. He did not grow up with babies. But having him in with the people and not locking him away from the babies when they come, has made him an awesome, careful good baby dog. Of course babies are always supervised with any dog. 

I see nothing wrong with a good kennel in the garage for when you are out working. But when you come home, the dog should be in with the family. They become a family member then, not just the dog.


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## Indigo

Well after typing a book and losing my last post this one will be short.

Omar, if you and your family invite a GSD into your home and give him love and guidance he will provide you all with protection. 

Do your homework, get help choosing the right dog for you and train/exercise him as he grows.


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## fuzzybunny

I think some dogs can do great living outside if given adequate attention by their humans. I think some dogs do not. It's hard to tell which you'll get from a puppy. When I was a kid we had a Golden Retriever whom my parents didn't want in the house. Gotta protect those hardwood floors and keep them pretty. Our dog was kept in a run outside. If it got too cold he was put in the garage. He was taken out in the morning and evening for a walk and then put back in his run. This situation killed his spirit. He looked depressed all the time. I would hear him howling in the garage at night out of loneliness. As far as I can see, the only way to know if a dog is suited to the lifestyle you intend, is to get an adult dog whose personality is already established and then you can find one that perhaps is that independent. 

How is your dog going to protect your family though, if it's kept in a kennel or garage?

Also, not all GSDs are natural protectors. A lot of training goes into this.


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## trudy

fuzzy bunny, I soo disagree, in kennels where dogs are left out there are other dogs, these are pack animals, NO dog does well living alone outside!!!! Either locked in a garage or kennel alone!! Either don't get a dog or bring it inside, and I certainly have no issues with using a kennel or garage while working but the dog needs to be in when people are home. You end up a neurotic dog with either nervous or aggressive tendencies. And the dog becomes frantic for attention so is almost unmanageable when the door opens so soon the food is slid under the gate and the water is hosed inside. 

And I do believe most German Shepherds and actually most breeds will try to defend the home and family, if they are inside adn well trained. And where he lives it is NOT a high criminal area, and a scary looking big well trained dog in the house will be all that is likely ever needed


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## fuzzybunny

trudy said:


> fuzzy bunny, I soo disagree, in kennels where dogs are left out there are other dogs, these are pack animals, NO dog does well living alone outside!!!! Either locked in a garage or kennel alone!! Either don't get a dog or bring it inside, and I certainly have no issues with using a kennel or garage while working but the dog needs to be in when people are home. You end up a neurotic dog with either nervous or aggressive tendencies. And the dog becomes frantic for attention so is almost unmanageable when the door opens so soon the food is slid under the gate and the water is hosed inside.
> 
> And I do believe most German Shepherds and actually most breeds will try to defend the home and family, if they are inside adn well trained. And where he lives it is NOT a high criminal area, and a scary looking big well trained dog in the house will be all that is likely ever needed


Trudy, I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. The point of me telling the story about my Golden Retriever being locked in a run and the garage was to get across to the OP that it killed the dog's spirit. I agree living outside is IMO not an ideal situation however I do believe some do great outside. There are many farm dogs that live outside and never see the inside of a house. The difference though, is that they probably have jobs on the farm so they have a purpose. They are not kept locked up. If the OP is set on getting a dog under the circumstances he described then I prefer him to try and find a very independent adult dog. My choice is for him to get an alarm system but if he's going to get a dog then he needs to get a very independent one.

Also, why do you think I asked him how his dog was going to protect the family if kept outside? I think if you reread my post you'll see I was trying to very diplomatically tell him the situation he described is not ideal for a dog.


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## RubyTuesday

Those dogs that do well outside almost always have LOTS of canine &/or human company. Very few breeds are solitary types. Those that are, need the company or they can become 'broody', suspicious & excessively territorial.

Many people intend to spend a great deal of time with their outdoor dog & then just don't. Many owners are unaware of how little attention the poor dog actually gets. The vast majority of homes will do much better by their dogs if they keep them inside fully integrated with the rest of the family.


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