# need some serious help please



## Bunch of Rascals (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey everyone. I am writing on behalf of my sister who is having some trouble with her 10 month old Beligian Malinois, Hershey. My sister and her husband have another dog as well, a pound puppy, and the two get along very well. The issue is when they leave. My sister and her husband both work but their hours are different enough that they only leave the pups alone for a few hours at a time. Hershey is crated as she is a VERY destructive chewer and the other dog is left out as she can be trusted. Hershey has become quite skilled at breaking out of her crate and wreaking havoc with her unsupervised freedom. My sister tried to secure her crate more adequately and Hershey broke her tooth off down to the nerve getting out again. They had to have a cap put on at the emergency vet. Two weeks ago Hershey got out again and destroyed their couch. They bought a new one and yesterday Hershey girl got out once again, and went straight for the new sofa. These are just the expensive slip ups, not counting all the other things that have been destroyed along the way.

My sister's husband is a canine handler with the Air Force so is experienced with dogs. Both of the girls are exercised daily. They have a nice sized, fenced yard but with how hot it is they don't want to leave them out. Plus if Hershey got out of the yard she may get hurt, lost, whatever. They have a garage but again, with the heat, at this time it's not a viable option. My sister loves her dogs like they were her kids but her husband is beyond frustrated and is starting to think about rehoming Hershey. Please help me help her with your experienced advice! She is having a hard time explaining to him that Hersh is a puppy and that they can work through this. I appreciate all of your time in advance. I am putting some pictures up for your viewing pleasure  










The girls.



















Bad girl Hershey!



















They really do l ove their girls.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Is this a wire crate or vari-kennel or plastic one?
FTR I don't use wire crates, preferring the sturdy plastic ones.
However, where the dog has broken out already, she may not be able to be contained again.
I'd look into things like dog daycare, or even have heard of people putting up a welded steel (not chain link) kennel in a basement where the dog cannot escape. Behlen makes the top of the line product and they may as well invest in one now.

http://www.behlencountry.com/index.aspx?ascxid=behlenCatalogProduct&i=125

With a nice wooden top wired on, these are virtually escape proof.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

It might help if you crated both dogs. I know it doesn't seem fair to the "good" dog, but dogs do have a sense of fairness and your Malinois might just want to be out with the other dog. I definitely understand how when two dogs get together they can cause 10 times the havoc than one dog alone. 

Since you are in Texas, I'm guessing you don't have a basement. A couple of basement kennels would be perfect. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/equipment-how-use-where-find/97118-indoor-dog-kennel-run.html


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

They should look into getting an aluminum dog crate (or a similar welded, heavy-duty metal crate). They run anywhere from 200 - 800 dollars...but, they will NEVER have to buy another crate and they will never have to buy another couch (due to the dog getting out). 

These, like the kennels descibed above, are virtually escape proof and SAFE for dogs like the Mal you describe.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I understand their frustration. It sounds like she has separation anxiety. Is she destructive when they are home? If not then that would be a very good guess at what's going on. Mals are super high strung and even more handler focuses (read: extra strength velcro).

Rafi had severe SA when I adopted him. He smashed the heck out of his face on his crate and destroyed whatever he could get his mouth on. He was an anxious mess when I got home, even if I was only gone for a couple of hours. 

I counter conditioned him using Patricia McConnell's protocol for SA. It took 7 weeks but it worked like a charm and I can now leave him home alone, uncrated, for as long as necessary without any problems. 

I adopted out a 5 year old dog with extremely severe SA. She had to be left in a completely secure, covered outside kennel in Wisconsin, year round. The woman who adopted her knew Patricia McConnell and felt confident she could rehab this dog. It took 4 months but that dog ended up being able to be home alone with no problems. 

This is the little book they should get: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Ill-Home-Soon-Separation-Anxiety/dp/1891767054[/ame]

It explains how to determine if your dog has SA and how to fix it. You have to stick very strictly to the protocol but if you really follow through with every step it will work.


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## Bunch of Rascals (Dec 27, 2010)

She started out with the regular wire crates and a few weeks ago got a vari-kennel, as she was told these could not be broken out of. Yeah...that's the one Hersh broke her tooth on, but still got out. I will tell her about the links you guys provided with the new kennel ideas though. They do not have a basement but they do have a guest room that they could move the bed out of and set one up in if need be. 

Ruth - I called her right after reading your message and she said immediately bought the book. Thank you very much for the recommendation! With something concrete that they can try it gives both of them something to focus on.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

These are the only ones I could think of that might _possibly_ contain this dog. The doors cannot be pulled inward.

Petmate Furrarri Kennel - Cherrybrook

However, as mentioned earlier, now that she's broken out she'll continue to try, and damage herself, I'm sure.
Tell them about the welded steel kennels...


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

I have a large male GSD that breaks the Furrarris as if they'e plastic bags. He ONLY does this at Schutzhund training while waiting his turn. Otherwise, he stays in a Petmate Vari-Kennel just fine! 

I bought one of these....A Zinger! Best money I ever spent and buying 3 vari-kennels his size brand new, I could have almost paid for it 2x. 
Professional 5000 with "Escape Artist" Upgrade Package :: Zinger Dog Crates :: Zinger Winger Company

Then there is this one as well....
Amazon.com: ProSelect Empire Cages - Medium: Home & Garden

Both very nice crates and WELL worth the money!!! 

I would also reccommend crating both dogs. Is she bad in the crate when they're home?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

these are the crates i was looking at when we had an escape artist who was also destructive due to seperation anxiety...


Heavy Duty Dog Crates


They also can be elevated so the carpet or flooring underneath cant be destroyed either. A sturdy muzzle she cant get off either might also be needed in the crate to prevent more broken teeth. 

The dog we had who suffered from SA and escaped her crate like a pro, we ended up putting a plastic crate inside of a heavier duty wire crate. The smaller crate was then tied into the wire crate using 550 cord and the puppy trainer wire crate seperator was used as a wall in the back. She was also muzzled while in the crate. She had two gates to try and get through and we also had to tie the doors closed with 550 cord. It did work, even if it was a complicated system. If we'd had the chance and she'd been with us longer, we would have most definitely have gotten one of the crates in the linki posted.


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## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

I wouldn't recommend they keep her in the spare bedroom, I know many dog owners that have had their walls destroyed by their dogs with the same issues, and I mean large dog sized holes in the walls. Do they have someone that could possibly come and take them out during the day when they aren't home or even go spend an hour or say three at the house (pet sit) that way they are both out at the same time and she won't be as anxious about being left alone?

ETA: If not, what they could do is rip up all of the carpet and put in a chain-link kennel like the ones you see outside and put it into the spare bedroom, it should work and she can reinforce it by putting on a second lock so the dog can't try and get it open. She should also leave a kong/filled with yummy things like canned dog food, peanut butter, or something else yummy for the dog; in the kennel for the dog as well also she can try to leave the tv on or even music to help calm the dog down.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

I would suggest a kennel of this sorts: Full Tread Brite Aluminum Crate


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Is this a wire crate or vari-kennel or plastic one?
> FTR I don't use wire crates, preferring the sturdy plastic ones.
> However, where the dog has broken out already, she may not be able to be contained again.
> I'd look into things like dog daycare, or even have heard of people putting up a welded steel (not chain link) kennel in a basement where the dog cannot escape. Behlen makes the top of the line product and they may as well invest in one now.
> ...


hehe, I have one of those inside my house (it's downstairs). The first night Virgil came home I put him in it... I don't have a top to it, but he can't jump out of it. Well, he'd jump up and wound up getting his foot caught. It would slide down between the panels. The noise that came out of that dog... it sounded as though he was dying. 

Imagine my surprise... and then fear. I had only known Virgil (a 4yr old, 100lb shepherd) for a few hours! And now I had to approach him as he was panicking and attempt to help him! Thankfully he's such a great dog... but man was it a pita to get him unstuck... we don't use that kennel anymore. 

He's a master at breaking out of kennels. I had a wire kennel (the size would fit a great dane) and he cut himself up biting and bending the wires to get out. 

I was going to break down and get a aluminum crate (like the ones of Leerburg... but 500 + was such a huge investment that I went to Petsmart and found this one: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3960821 (I bought the 'giant' sized one)

It's VERY study plastic, no place for him to chew, and the door is a very secure fit! He hasn't busted out of it (though sometimes he tries)

I also bought him a basket muzzle ... so the first few weeks he'd wear that while in his kennel. It really helped.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

I don't know why the link isn't working :/ Got to petsmart.com and in the dog crate section look for Petmate Plastic Carriers for Large Breeds


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Well there's other ways, I'm sure, for them to be injured...in a freak accident, after I was laid off from my job and another guy (who didn't check the dogs @ the shelter daily) took over- he called me on a Monday and asked us to tell him why a dog had died.
Well, I went down there with my husband and found a dog had hung himself on the gate latch, he must have been pawing at the gate and got his foot stuck between the gate and the concrete. 
Had that guy checked daily (yeah - well, he doesn't love dogs like I do I guess, as I used to go down there every day) the dog probably would have been able to be saved.
Anyway the latches are the same as on those cages. I always think about that when I see the latches, but it's not happened here...yet!
Is there no way to tighten the spaces between the panels?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

KZoppa said:


> these are the crates i was looking at when we had an escape artist who was also destructive due to seperation anxiety...
> 
> 
> Heavy Duty Dog Crates


The reviews on this aren't very favorable. It looks flimsy to me...


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You want a solid aluminum crate designed for working dogs (warning: Sticker shock coming up!)
K9 Vehicle cooling and accesories - DogSport Gear

















But worth it for his safety and your sanity.


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## danehdee (Jul 31, 2011)

I saw your post the other days looking for help as my dog is a sofa chewer!
I need to bite this in the butt asap.. as he doesn't listen to me to stay off of the couch.. he just wants to bite me, the couch and play... on the couch! 

LOL so.. I did a little research and came across the sofa scram..
When the dog tries to get on the couch it lets off an alarm ... making the floor look much more enjoyable! It doesn't shock or buzz your dog.. just a loud BEEEEEP! 

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750650

Here are some reviews on the sofa scram

http://reviews.petsmart.com/4830/2750650/high-tech-sofa-scram-reviews/reviews.htm

There is a scat mat too.. but it sends a buzz to your pup.. so I would prefer the sofa scram. I'm going to have to buy it online since i'm in canada.. but i'll let you know if it works!

You can also lie both of the mats on the floor so the dog won't go past a certain point.

My dog used to chew the wood baby gate, push it down when someone rang the door bell.. but it fell once on the ground and he hasn't gone near it since... so i'm hoping the mat will work for the couch.. he is a bit of scaredy cat.. so i'm sure it will help keeping the dog away! 

Good luck!


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Need a stronger crate. You need to be looking at the crates PD's and schutzhund people are using.

The recommendation for the furrari kennel is not one I would follow. I personally own and love our furrari, but it is NOT a very heavy duty crate at all, and in fact, in much lighter than our regular petmates. My Malinois is fine in the furrari, but he's not interested in escaping from a crate and isn't crated for such long hours. Other than the dead of winter, he isn't crated at all anymore actually. I kennel in our 30 x 18' kennel when I'm away. If it were my dog actually, in this situation, I would have a concrete pad poured and a kennel built with a secure top. It's cheaper than replacing couches and it's better for the dog. Mals just aren't a breed meant to be crated all day while someone is at work. JMHO


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You can get an Owens WElded box for about $400 - a little bit less sticker shock.
Welded box slam latch with supplemental latches.

I have the 55033 which is a nice large compartment.

http://www.owens-pro.com/search_partnum_results.php

All welded boxes go freight which adds a lot of cost but if you can find a local dealer you can offset that.
The rivited boxes and the boxes held together with screws are not as strong.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm telling you having owned quite a few crates thus far...The Zinger is well worth the money. Solid Aluminum crate that is "escape proof"!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Rerun said:


> Need a stronger crate. You need to be looking at the crates PD's and schutzhund people are using.
> 
> The recommendation for the furrari kennel is not one I would follow. I personally own and love our furrari, but it is NOT a very heavy duty crate at all, and in fact, in much lighter than our regular petmates.


You're right, the newer ones are much softer plastic. I'm disappointed they changed the quality of them but we still prefer them due to how easy it is to take them apart and clean them  I have a bunch of furrari halfs sitting in my front yard drying now after their weekly scrub down :laugh:

The older furraris were much more sturdy...I miss them!


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## Bunch of Rascals (Dec 27, 2010)

Thank you to everyone for such great crate recommendations. I have passed them along, as well as your experienced reviews, I'm sure that with a better one and the SA booklet they will have some peace soon. At the very least no more escaping. 
Thanks again everyone for your help


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Hope they can find something that works! ;-)


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