# Parvo



## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

We just got the 5 pups up here and one has come down with Parvo. My question is this-Do you feel the Parvo/Distemper shot sets off Parvo in puppies that come out of shelter situation? I am just thinking that if their immune system is not up to par are they more at risk once the vaccine is given? Maybe I am way off base, just want your thoughts? Are there any stats that report one way or another Thanks for your input.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I asked myself the same question when I worked in a shelter environment. I don't really have an answer, but I can say that a shelter (no matter how careful) is a hot bed of germs and illnesses. And the animals are stressed, which makes them such easy targets. 
I have dealt with puppies coming out of real **** hole shelters, where they didn't get any vaccinations, and they seem to run the same risk/rate of infection as puppies in shelters where the protocol is to vaccinate right away.
The stats would be interesting.
Sheilah


----------



## Sue F (Oct 3, 2007)

Mo, 

Was this one of the Gaston pups? Do you need me to contact ALGC about this for you?

Hope the pups recover soon!

Sue


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: I have dealt with puppies coming out of real **** hole shelters, where they didn't get any vaccinations, and they seem to run the same risk/rate of infection as puppies in shelters where the protocol is to vaccinate right away.


I have actually had the opposite experience. The shelters we work with that don't vaccinate have WAY higher incidences of parvo than the ones that vaccinate on intake - even the ones with group housing and non-existant disease control. At Harlan, the shelter I work with most, we buy vaccines for the shelter as we can. During periods where we have them the parvo rate goes down noticeably. When the shelter runs out, we get a spike.

But that's all animals vaccinated before or right at exposure. What's a harder question for me is what effect a parvo vaccine has in an animal following exposure but before obvious disease. I have heard from one of my vet techs that the vaccine can push the dogs who are incubating into the disease but in spite of this she thinks it's still worth doing because it reduces severity of the disease if they do come down with it. What the actual stats are on that, I'm not sure. Until I get data I'm going to keep vaccinating at the earliest opportunity - ideally when the puppy first arrives at the shelter but failing that, as soon as I can. I do wish there was more info on this though. When you deal with parvo a lot, the answers to some of these questions could be vital.







Sorry to hear one of your little ones is sick!


----------



## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

Yes one of the Gaston pups came down with it. I do not know how long the pup was at the shelter. She was vaccinated when she was released to us, the vet feels she had it for a while. Just wanted to know what others thought about this. Interesting read! Thanks for the input.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

The incubation can range from 2 to 10 days with 5 being common. Most shelters are thoroughly contaminated unfortunately. We've found it's pretty common for pups to appear okay at the shelter but break with it after they're pulled. How's she doing?


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

> Quote:
> I have actually had the opposite experience. The shelters we work with that don't vaccinate have WAY higher incidences of parvo than the ones that vaccinate on intake -


Yep, you're right. I could have been clearer. My point was that not getting the vaccination didn't help those pups that were not vaccinated not get parvo. The puppies coming to IHS from those shelters/animal control agencies that did not vaccinate at any time were much more likely to get parvo.
I wish that shelters were better about sharing their statistics. So much could be learned from looking at patterns over a region, or an age group.
Sheilah


----------



## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

I have not heard how the pup is doing this morning. She is to go to the vet again this morning. I know Pupresq has posted some very interesting posts on Parvo in the past which were very informative. The shelter people would know more than I in how vaccine works in the shelter setting. Thank you.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

The pup will test positive for parvo after vaccination. It is impossible to distinguish whether the positive test is from the vaccine or the disease.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

There is a big Shelter Medince thing happening at vet schools. I am not sure but always want to say it started at Cornell. 

Anyway, here is some information on Parvo from UC Davis:
http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_parvovirus_canine.shtml

I didn't have the time but here is an FAQ: http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/faq.php?psearch=parvo&Submit=Search+FAQ&psearchtype=#top3

You could possibly even contact them to see if they have studied this at all if it's not in the FAQ. If it is, post it please!









Here is the Cornell Shelter Medicine site: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/MaddiesFund/ and they have a consult e-mail on this page: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/MaddiesFund/consult.htm

Hoping that the pup is doing better and staying strong.


----------



## oregongsdr111 (Nov 20, 2005)

Rebel brought up a point that I was going to make.
Dogs may test with a weak positive days 5-15 after vaccination.

We had a huge issues with shelter pups coming down with runny stress poop once in the home. One pup out of seven would get a weak positive on the snap tests. Many times the pups were PTS by the adopter before we even heard about it.

Most of the vets here did not know about the false positive, and it was a ton of work educating. The vets still incourage treatment because every second counts, but they will hold off with euthanasia, and sustain with fluids just in case if the adopter refuses treatment. They will call us, and we pick up the pup and put it in rescue. What the vets have seen is that most of the pups from our shelter that have a weak positive recover, and did not have Parvo.

I wish your pups well, and a speedy recovery.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Yes, it is very possible that it is bad diarrhea and hopefully not parvo. If the others don't get it, it is probably not parvo.

I did have a foster that came down with distemper over a month after the distemper vaccine, and I think it was vaccine induced (I think the shelter used live virus vaccine). I don't think this happens with parvo.

I worked with a VA shelter that gets a lot of parvo dogs. They said that the dogs that had parvo lingering at entry would come down with parvo immediately and the illness is more severe (if they already had the infection when vaccinated). This is not an accurate study though.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I SO wish there was more good data! We have actually gone so far as to toss around the idea of trying to get funding for some clinical studies. Some of the things we're interested in are the same as have been mentioned here - how often do dogs test positive post vaccine and at what intervals? Is it better to vaccinate a dog that has already been exposed or wait? What if you aren't sure (e.g. the dog is in a shelter where parvo is present but you don't know if this particular dog has encountered it or not)? And most importantly - protocols. What works the best? There are such a variety of treatment modalities. At the moment those of us here who encounter a lot of it are just trying to pool our info in an ad hoc manner, but a real study would be invaluable. 

That is SUCH a shame about clinics euthing puppies just for a positive test. False positives can definitely happen post-vax and not only that - parvo itself can come in a lot of degrees of severity. We've had dogs who tested strong positive but never vomited and were only sick a day or two all the way over to dogs that lingered for a week with full care and still died. Parvo is a tricky disease!


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

In our area some vets won't take on parvo dogs. Treating them in the ER can ve cost-prohibitive for most, it gets to $1000+/day - which very few rescues can afford. Also vets won't allow us to take fluids home to administer to the dogs subcutaneously. I am glad to hear that some vets work with rescues to treat parvo.


----------



## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

> Quote: We have actually gone so far as to toss around the idea of trying to get funding for some clinical studies


Have you contacted granting agencies? I have a list for some funding sources, I will scan to see who has the mandate to support something like that.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

And contact those vet teaching hospitals with the shelter medicine programs. Maybe find a student...

I think my links made people sleepy!


----------

