# Why do people always blame the dog?



## APBTLove

The night before last, my roommates had guests over. It was about 12am and I was taking Jaeger out to go before we went to bed. As I was coming back through the house with him I stopped to talk to my RM, and a guy who was over and had a few came up and kept insisting on petting J. I told him NO repeatedly. Even pulled J away from him, but he put his hands on him and started petting his back, so I grabbed J's head and held him still while telling the guy someone was going to get hurt. And he kept saying "I don't care! Let him bite me, I'm not scared." 

Well I DO care. At this point I'm up against a wall practically, trying to keep J away from him.

J snarled and snapped at him once and that still didn't send the message. I could see the change in J, and at the last second I knocked the man's arm out of the way and I got a K9 nearly through my hand.. 

When I realized he really got me, and now that the guy had moved out of my way, I swiftly took Jaeger back to his room and crated him, leaving a bloody trail behind me. He popped a pretty big vein and it was gushing like someone had lopped my hand off..

It went in the back of my hand and in far enough that you can see bruising inside on the underside, and if I applied pressure to my palm where the bruising was, fresh blood poured out. He got me good, and I'm lucky he didn't try to bite again and only got me once. The bleeding didn't stop until late morning, and we had no medical supplies in the house, I had to make a saline solution and MAKE a bandage - I know what's on my shopping list next. 

I'm pretty sure he damaged my tendons, as it's hard to use my last three fingers. If it gets any worse or doesn't heal fast I'm going to the Dr. But I wanted to avoid that if I could. 


But the thing that has me, only my female roommates and one of the friend's who was there blames the guy. Everyone else is saying I should have 'beat the dog senseless' and they would have 'killed that dog'. 

Let me get this straight.. The dog:

Was in his house.
Was being threatened by a stranger smelling heavily of alcohol.
Did not mean to bite me.
Immediately stopped any kind of aggressive behavior when the man backed off.

The man:

Was in J's house.
Was physically all over him.
Was being loud, moving carelessly and reeking of alcohol.
Was actually being aggressive with his tone and body language.
Was making me AND the dog feel threatened.

But it's J's fault.


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## Dainerra

maybe the mean the guy is a "dog" 

Coz I would have beat him senseless.


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## DharmasMom

Because people are STUPID. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, yet we call animals dumb. Personally, I think you should have "beat the guy senseless".


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## APBTLove

I didn't really say much to the guy after that. He was drunk. I haven't seen him since then but he's going to get a tongue-lashing when I do. It's not really that I got hurt, it's him messing with my dog. I can deal with just about anything but that - leave my animals alone. Like this chick my RM brought over, she picked up my Black Widow's enclosure, and started pounding on the bottom - I flipped total, utter crazy on her. I've had to move all of my pets/cages but my large Monitor to my room to keep idiots away form them.

Oh the joys of roommates...


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## DharmasMom

Wait. Did you just say...Black Widow??? As in SPIDER???


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## KentuckyGSDLover

It's obviously that guy's fault. What part of "don't pet my dog" did he not understand? You need to get medical attention. Dog bites are very highly prone to infection, particularly if they're a puncture, and the sooner the better.


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## Freestep

This is why I crate my dogs when people are coming over. Because people DON'T EFFING LISTEN. I can tell people a gazillion times "Don't throw any toys for the dogs", and what do they do? The last time, a guy insisted on throwing a stick for Luka, she went to grab the stick and got his finger in the process, drawing blood. The guy knew it was his fault, but still, that kind of thing can put a bite record on my dog should he have chosen to seek medical attention.

Thankfully, I can just put my GSDs in the shop so that everyone stays safe.

My Akbash dog, fortunately, is benign with visitors and just walks away when he's had enough. However, the last time we had a get-together, he lapped up someone's beer, then leaned and drooled on everyone.


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## KentuckyGSDLover

Freestep said:


> My Akbash dog, fortunately, is benign with visitors and just walks away when he's had enough. However, the last time we had a get-together, he lapped up someone's beer, then leaned and drooled on everyone.


I have a friend who had a yellow lab that would purposefully knock over people's beers to drink them. Beer on coffee tables or on the ground or floor where people were sitting were vulnerable and she'd always say, "Watch your beer or she'll knock it over and drink it."


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## Freestep

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> I have a friend who had a yellow lab that would purposefully knock over people's beers to drink them. Beer on coffee tables or on the ground or floor where people were sitting were vulnerable and she'd always say, "Watch your beer or she'll knock it over and drink it."


Seriously! Whaley does the same thing! He is SUCH a lush. Just last week he knocked over the recycling bin because there were beer bottles in it. 

The upside of this is that beer is a good remedy for his anxiety during thunderstorms. He is very sensitive to tranquilizers, so when there is thunder, gunshots or similar noises that freak him out, a beer and his Thundershirt work wonders to keep him calm.


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## Jax08

You need to go to the doctor and get that looked at if you are having problems with movement. It was not J's fault and you can certainly explain it as an accident.


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## Jessiewessie99

Because people are stupid.


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## Jack's Dad

It's not the dogs fault it is yours.
You didn't have an intruder you had a guest who had too much to drink.
The dog should have been taken straight through to his crate. 
Also people seem to be missing the point that your dog bit someone (you).
It could have been someone else. If the person who was not listening had been bit as severly as you, your dog would be in trouble right now.
It is your responsibility to know your dogs strength and weakness and don't put him in those situations.
Had he bit someone else and it was on record your dog could be quaranteened and if a second incident occured euthanized.
The excuses about the world being filled with stupid, ignorant people who don't listen are just that excuses.
Life and people are what they are and you need to protect your dog from those situations.


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## APBTLove

I never said it wasn't my fault. I had no idea the man was drunk, I had just gotten home and my dog needed to pee. The dining room I stopped in (on the way to his room, mind you) was empty except for the roommate, who he's known since he was a puppy. 

I realize the repercussions of my dog biting someone, which is why I took the bite instead of letting the a**hole get bitten. 

I could not continue moving because the man blocked me, I could not physically push him out of the way, he's bigger than I am and I was already hurt to the point that my arm would give out if I put pressure on it, and I had J in the other hand. He only moved when he saw me bleeding everywhere.

I know my dog extremely well. I knew he was going to try to bite him. I told the man that and I told him to MOVE and to STOP. What else is there to do? I did not put him in a situation, he HAD to go out. If I took him out of the room and into the living room full of people and he bit someone, that's putting him in a situation. I didn't knowingly do a thing. 

Forgive me for not realizing I had a belligerent idiot in MY house, so I didn't speed-walk my dog directly through the house like I had someone on my tail.


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## doggiedad

you know your dog. why did you bring him in contact with the quess?


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## cta

from your original post, you stated that you gave the guy fair warning....several times. i can totally understand your frustration in this situation, because it's true, people really don't listen. people are people and animals are animals...it's not like your dog was sitting there saying "oh gee, this guy seems really drunk, so i should ignore him." of course if this guy was belligerently trying to pet your dog and making movements your dog was uncomfortable with, what does he expect? we are sometimes faced with less than ideal situations with our animals and we just have to do the best we can to achieve the best possible outcome. unfortunately in this instance it sounds like you were literally backed into a corner and your dog didn't like it...which i really can't blame him...he felt threatened. sure, it's easy to blame you, but honestly, to me it sounds like you know your dog very well and you did what you had to do to protect him. in a perfect world people wouldn't behave the way that guy did. in a perfect world your dog and many of our dogs wouldn't have "issues" or act negatively EVER. well, that's just not the way the world works. while i'm not glad that you got bit, i'm glad that you did what you needed to do to protect your dog. and you should see a doctor if you can...the bite sounds bad. hope you feel better soon and give that guy a piece of your mind when you have a chance. and i just need to add that after living in apartments while in college and having roommates, sometimes there IS only one path to get to the bedrooms. it's crowded enough already...if there are added people in the place, it gets nearly impossible to move around.


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## APBTLove

doggiedad said:


> you know your dog. why did you bring him in contact with the quess?


I'd have to show you a blueprint of my house to explain it, I suppose. I walked him straight through going back to his crate from taking a potty break. My roommate was in the room I go through to get to his room, I stopped and asked her who all was at the house - as I had just come home - and as she was telling me when the drunk a-hole came in the room and made a beeline for J and me. He KNOWS me and J, he knows better. I told him to stop and get away from him. 

I did not take J to him, I didn't even go the route through the house that would take us past them. I came in the back door to avoid the living room where everyone was.


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## Jack's Dad

If you have a roomate or roomates then you could have someone in your home at any time.
You say you knew your dog would bite.
Since you don't have control over your living environment then you have a huge responsibility on your hands.
Why would your dog bite?
If he has issues you know about that can't be fixed then they have to be managed.
As I said when you live in an environment you really can't control then it is an incident waiting to happen.
Anyway I wish you good luck with your dog and your arm. I hope you heal well.


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## APBTLove

I know this, he is a dog who has to be managed and worked with, his issues aren't something that can be trained out. My dog was under my physical control, the man was literally touching me and J both and reaching over me to try and get J to grab his arm - I think - because he kept yelling "I want him to bite me! I don't care." 

I'm a huge advocate of managing your dogs responsibly. The only other thing I could have possibly done is muzzle him to walk outside, but I really didn't think I'd have to battle a drunk guy when I came back inside my house. 


Thank you, I hope my hand heals up as well.


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## APBTLove

DharmasMom said:


> Wait. Did you just say...Black Widow??? As in SPIDER???


Yes, I have a widow who stays in a sealed and locked enclosure INSIDE of a tank for extra measure, with a sign on her glass saying NOT to touch her at all.


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## cta

and while it is hard to manage a dog with any type of issue in an environment that is potentially unpredictable, i think it's worth mentioning that people always expect dogs to treat humans with respect, however, people also need to treat the dogs with respect. this this case, it would've been respecting his space. jmo


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## Freestep

This is also why I've never had roommates.


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## doggiedad

could you have exited through the back door to avoid
your guess? you know your dog bites. since your dog bites
why don't you muzzle him when you bring him through
the house when guess are there?



APBTLove said:


> I did not take J to him, I didn't even go the route through the house that would take us past them.
> 
> >>>>>I came in the back door to avoid the living room where everyone was.<<<<<


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## sparra

Jack's Dad has a some good points. If you have a dog that you know bites and a roommate who has a habit of having mates over who get drunk then you have to make some changes to control the environment better.
People who are drunk do not follow instructions very well in my experience and their judgment is altered....fact of life....drunk equals stupid....
The muzzle sounds like a good idea.....or a new roommate...


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## APBTLove

Well I would love to hear some suggestions on what changes to make. Seriously.



> could you have exited through the back door to avoid
> your guess? you know your dog bites. since your dog bites
> why don't you muzzle him when you bring him through
> the house when guess are there?


I did, he went out the back to go potty and we came back in the back. And because I do not have a muzzle right now - and because I went through the house where guests were not, I had no reason to suspect one of them would be drunk and actually want to provoke my dog. That has never happened - that guy has never, ever been a problem and has always listened and been respectful around J, I knew everyone there and they all know how J is and how to act around him. I guess he's one of those people who are a totally different person once they've been drinking.. 

And I really didn't expect the drunk part because we have a rule (obviously one broken by the others) that we don't have idiots over our house drinking. Too many problems come from it..


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## sparra

APBTLove said:


> Well I would love to hear some suggestions on what changes to make. Seriously.


Well....buy a muzzle. Talk with the drunk bloke while he is sober about what happened. Talk to your roommate about the rules being broken. If you don't get anywhere with this.....move out or get another roommate who does respect your rules.....seriously

The other thing could be to kind of make an announcement when people are over that you are about to bring your dog out to go pee and tell then to please not approach him as he may bite you.....takes the element of surprise out of it.....just a thought...


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## sashadog

The only solution that I have found to problems like this is to simply tell my roommates and any future roommates that my house is not a party house whatsoever. If they want to drink with their friends or if I want to drink with my friends, then we go elsewhere. There are no parties or "drinking get-togethers" in our house because it is too hard on the dogs. Period.

I know how difficult it can be but this is part of the responsibility of owning a dog that will bite a human. One of my girls has a bite record now due to a stupid roommates boyfriend being an idiot like your friend. My roommate let Scarlett out of her crate, in my room, so that her bf could meet her (because she's "just the softest dog in the world" ) despite us having several conversations about this very subject. Her bf got in her face and tried to "wrestle" with her and she nailed him. I got the phone call when I was an hour away. 

Figure out a way to keep parties from happening at your house. It will keep your dogs from being a bad situation and the stress of them being locked away in a room while strangers are "invading" their home.


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## GSDolch

sashadog said:


> The only solution that I have found to problems like this is to simply tell my roommates and any future roommates that my house is not a party house whatsoever. If they want to drink with their friends or if I want to drink with my friends, then we go elsewhere. There are no parties or "drinking get-togethers" in our house because it is too hard on the dogs. Period.
> 
> I know how difficult it can be but this is part of the responsibility of owning a dog that will bite a human. One of my girls has a bite record now due to a stupid roommates boyfriend being an idiot like your friend. My roommate let Scarlett out of her crate, in my room, so that her bf could meet her (because she's "just the softest dog in the world" ) despite us having several conversations about this very subject. Her bf got in her face and tried to "wrestle" with her and she nailed him. I got the phone call when I was an hour away.
> 
> Figure out a way to keep parties from happening at your house. It will keep your dogs from being a bad situation and the stress of them being locked away in a room while strangers are "invading" their home.


You can't tell a roommate to NOT have friends over if you do not OWN the house yourself. (IE: You can evict someone)

If its a rented house and the rent is split up equally then you very well can't tell anyone to do anything really. The options are pretty much to move out, and thats not always possible right away.

I am sorry that this happened to you, I don't blame the dog, but I don't really blame the guy either. I think equal blame goes to you (that you seem to be responsible in taking, because hey, accidents happen) and your room mate. 

Some things that *I* would do. First sit and talk with your room mate about making sure that their guests know NOT to try and pet/touch your dog. If a situation comes up again like this, maybe don't stop to talk to anyone until your dog is safe in his crate. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars . I think pretty much anything can wait to be asked until you know your dog is safe. Maybe make a sign for people to see as they come in. Not that your dog will bite, or anything like that, but just something stating that one of the rules is to LEAVE THE DOG ALONE. Don't have to say why, just that its a rule of the house. Again, talk to your roommate, lol. If they are going to have people over then there needs to be some level of control by them with their guests, more so if people are going to be drinking.

Some of it might help, all one can do is try. Oh, and get that looked at!!! Valerian root tea is a good sedative and can help with pain too


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## sashadog

I guess I was just lucky enough to have roommates that were willing to work with our situation especially after we had the run in with our first roommate. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off in a condescending way  just that that was the only thing that worked for me and my dogs and I was fortunate enough to have roommates that were more than happy to just take the party elsewhere.

Roommates and higher maintenance dogs can be a tough combination and I was just trying to share my experience and the only thing that I've found to be not only safer but healthier for my dogs. Good luck with your situation and I hope your hand heals up well


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## GSDolch

sashadog said:


> I guess I was just lucky enough to have roommates that were willing to work with our situation especially after we had the run in with our first roommate. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off in a condescending way  just that that was the only thing that worked for me and my dogs and I was fortunate enough to have roommates that were more than happy to just take the party elsewhere.
> 
> Roommates and higher maintenance dogs can be a tough combination and I was just trying to share my experience and the only thing that I've found to be not only safer but healthier for my dogs. Good luck with your situation and I hope your hand heals up well



Oh no, I very much agree with you. Personally if I had to have a roommate id want want like yours that didn't bring their party home!! (im just not a big party person lol)

Its just one of those things that no one really knows until it happens. Thats when you find out if you got a good roommate or not lol, but all one can do if they don't own the place themselves is to talk talk talk to them and hopefully come to some sort of happy mediums.


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## wyominggrandma

I would never tell people who are over at your home, no matter what the reason,that your dog might bite. You are asking for a major lawsuit. If you warn folks ahead of time that you are bringing out your dog to go outside, but don't touch him cause he bites, then you will get some drunk pig(like you just had)that will be an idiot(like he was) and provoke the dog, get bit, then sober up and realize he just gave himself a way to get lots of money off of you. Unfortunately, the person would be in your home, welcomed by the roommate or someone else and would say you harbor a vicious dog.
If you have to bring the dog out while there are "guests" put a muzzle on him and take him from your room and back immediately, no stopping. 
With the muzzle on, you can just move people out of the way. No chance of anyone getting bit.


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## sashadog

GSDolch said:


> Oh no, I very much agree with you. Personally if I had to have a roommate id want want like yours that didn't bring their party home!! (im just not a big party person lol)
> 
> Its just one of those things that no one really knows until it happens. Thats when you find out if you got a good roommate or not lol, but all one can do if they don't own the place themselves is to talk talk talk to them and hopefully come to some sort of happy mediums.


Oh good, I'm still getting the hang of portraying a tone through text  
And I'm not a big partier either  My dogs are just a good excuse to keep the partiers out!! We have been pretty lucky with roommates though.


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## CarrieJ

I saw this thread this morning and got angry so I didn't reply before work. 
It would have been shooting from the hip impulsive response. 

If as you say you guys have a alcohol/no drunk rule. People and guests should respect the rules.
As humans and alcohol have destroyed more cultures and species than pretty much any other thing going on; expect the drunks to be celebrating. (It is the time of year to justify rudeness and bad behavior under the geise of "celebrating holiday cheer")
If----you can't automatically give this person an instant 3 strikes you're outta here ban. I'd work on the muzzle training. 
Just in case, the bonehead somehow has one of those "flukes" again.
Seriously, I hold drunk people accountable for their actions. I do not go for that "I'm sorry it'll never happen again, I don't remember" Tough, I do...and probably will remember your behavior for some time.
If he had gotten in a car because he didn't listen to you or your friends saying don't drive...he'd probably would have killed himself or lord forbid some innocent. WRONG.

I'm sorry that happened to you.
I hope you are all right and have improved mobility in your hand. 
I hope that you and your room-mate can come to some kind of agreement about this individual who disregarded your house rules, disrespected you in your own home, and put your dog in a terrible situation.


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## ShadowBandit

We had an almost situation like this. We got our first GSD in October and had a Christmas party. Our dog trainer flat out said, do not let her roam the party, just put her away shes not ready. So we did. Then everyone was begging to see her and I said I will bring her through to show as I take her out but do not try to pet her. Everyone agreed, but of course one drunk person goes "OOO I want to pet her" and of course she started barking back. End of everything, my dog was removed. I agree with the suggestion to not bring the dog out when there is a crowd if they aren't ready. Also removing the dog the second a drunk person ignores your warning would be good. I hope you can work on J's issues, we couldn't with ours and she bite a neighbor and got put down. I don't want that to happen to you and J! Best of luck in the future!


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## Zisso

Many years ago I had a room mate that had a large male GSD. The dog was awesome with myself and my kids, but he hated drunks. One of my room mates best friends was drunk one night and none of us were home. Guy saw dog in yard, reached over fence to pet and got bit...drew blood...if I remember right, it was a pretty nasty wound. This guy knew the dog since it was a puppy. 

I had a boyfriend at the time that drank heavily and he had been told repeatedly not to hug the dog. One night he was drunk, hugged the dog and lost part of his ear. 

Yet, my kids and I could hug the dog, lay on the dog, love all over him and never a scratch! No one dared to mess with my kids either, or Zack would go ballistic. 

No real moral to the story here. My room mate was also a drunk and never had a problem with the dog. He just didn't like others that were drunk.


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## pyratemom

This is precisely the reason I don't let my dogs out when there is more than one person visiting. One person I can tell don't touch and they respect that. Fools in crowds don't listen and they think they know everything when they are drunk. I hate drunks and my dogs don't care for them either so the two never meet if I can help it. As for your reaction, I would say you did what you could in a bad situation. The drunk guy is lucky he didn't take the bite. You should get the bite looked at in case there is nerve damage. 

All this being said, from now on I would make sure your room mate knows and acknowledges the rules as far as your dog and her guests are concerned. A basket muzzle might be a good addition to your gear if this type of party happens a lot. At least that would get you through the house in safety without having to worry about fools. When you have a dog that you know can get aggressive it has to be about management of the dog, not the fools around you because we can't manage fools.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Boy that is a scary story and I get where you are coming from, having had roomies in the past. I found they usually weren't worth it, costed me more then they saved and ended up living in my own place, MUCH smaller and scraped by just to not have to deal with that kind of nonsense. Lots of ramen noodle dinners.....I remember.

....but you know I'm thinking until you're in a different living situation I would hold off on critters like black widows and monitors and such if you can.

Too many variables (careless/thoughtless people) coming into your home that you cannot control that still may end up being your fault 'legally' (not in principle though).

I hope your hand heals well and that you soon can find a living situation less stressful for you and your animals. 




APBTLove said:


> Yes, I have a widow who stays in a sealed and locked enclosure INSIDE of a tank for extra measure, with a sign on her glass saying NOT to touch her at all.


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## Nikitta

I had a sort of similar incident with my GSD female, Zena. I had her outside for her final potty break of the night. The girl from across the street came across toward me. I barely knew the girl so what she wanted I had no idea. She was a known heavy drinker. Zena was not normally aggressive at all but she must have sensed my unease and she started pulling and lunging at the idiot girl who I repeatedly warned to stay back. The girl kept coming. ( She was crocked of course. ) I finally yelled," YOU WANT TO GET BIT? " The idiot finally backed down. Some people are total morons when they drink.


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## APBTLove

I totally agree about not getting animals while in my situation, but I've had them before I had roommates and I can't just get rid of them because I have idiots living here.. Unfortunately I expected the others to have the same respect for me and my possessions (including the animals) as I have for them.

If I had a stranger in the house, I would have acted differently. But I knew the people and they do know the rules, I had to reason to suspect I'd have a problem. J was leashed and I was holding his collar as I walked through the house, the only time he runs the house is when I am the only one there. 

Next paycheck I'm getting a muzzle and working with him. It's not fair to him, but it's necessary until I can get out of there with him.


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## fuzzybunny

I'm sure in retrospect there are additional things you could have done to prevent the situation but I honestly don't think you're in wrong. I think it's a reasonable expectation that someone will comply when you ask them not to touch your dog. Unfortunately the law probably won't see it that way but I just wanted to say I agree with you.


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## x0emiroxy0x

I only read the first and last page of the entire thread but I wanted to respond to your title.

Yes, some people blame the dog. However, IMO most of the time people with aggressive dogs blame the person or dog that was attacked (obviously not talking about you) 

Rockys best friend at the dog park is a female pitbull that hates any dog that looks at her (except him). They were playing and a lab walked by and just looked at them and she snarled and attacked him, hanging around his throat. The pit owners blamed the other owner for letting their dog near our two while playing.

My roommates moms dog has attacked 5 dogs now, leavin cuts on all of them. One of these dogs was mine. Her dog walked in the house, saw rocky, then ran at him and attacked him. I took rocky outside to assess his wounds and the dog followed us outside and pulled the leash as hard as he could and attacked rocky again. Rocky had 3 bleeding wounds. (her mom immediately left and took the dog home so no hard feelings) however, she insists that the reason the dog has attacked five dogs is bEcause the dog next door barks at him from the other side of the fence and has damaged him emotionally... 

In all honesty, the two dogs in these stories are both plainsong aggressive and dangerous. Blaming others lets the dog owner ignore the behavior and not fix it.

Not fair to innocent dogs walking by.

(sorry I know this has nothing to do with your story, just responding to the title)


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## NewbieShepherdGirl

That would make me very, very mad. When I tell people something; I expect them to listen, and if they don't I feel they bring upon themselves whatever happens. Unfortunately the law doesn't always see it this way, but most people with common sense would. 

It always amazes me when people don't listen to dog owners who are warning them about their dog. When I first got Sasha I didn't know how she'd react to people. I knew two things 1) New people made her very nervous 2) dogs that feel cornered will often bite. So I would tell people, "Leave her alone, let her come to you." Sometimes she would go see them, sometimes she wouldn't. I have a cousin who was 17, almost 18, when I got Sasha. She has gotten bit several times because she gets in strange dog's faces. I told her, "Give her space. If she comes to you, you can pet her." Next thing I know she's giving her a hug. Luckily Sasha isn't a biter. It just floored me that she would even take that chance though. I didn't try to really love on Sasha for a while after I got her. Not until I felt she would be receptive. 

Long story short, people are dumb and this, unfortunately, has to be taken into consideration when animals are involved. I don't think you're at fault 1 bit. You should be able to go anywhere in your house, and other people should respect that.


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## Packen

APBTLove said:


> that dog'.
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight.. The dog:
> 
> Did not mean to bite me.


I see it different, the dog knew who he was biting. You need better control when the dog is stressed or he will bite again.


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## APBTLove

How did he know? He was in mid lunge when I grabbed at his snout and his mouth closed on me. He made no move to bite again and immediately went into a submissive posture when I said "HEY!!" And he seemed to catch on that he got me, not the bad guy. 

And how would you know my dog knew who he was biting? I was the one standing next to him. 

He is also not a normal dog, for those who don't know. He's had serious problems since he was a few weeks old and he's only improved. And the only way he will bite again is it someone again physically forces themselves on him. He is either by my side or contained, so it is not as if he will run up to a stranger and bite them.


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## Wolfgeist

Sometimes I truly feel like the world has gone crazy.

Whatever happened to "NO MEANS NO"?

This isn't your fault. I truly believe that. You tried to prevent this, and the aggressor (the human idiot) created the problem. If he would have backed off like EVERY RESPONSIBLE, REASONABLE INDIVIDUAL SHOULD DO, this would not have happened. I blame the guy 100%. People forget that despite the fact that they are dogs, they are instinctual animals with weapons for mouths. He should have respected you, respected the animal and stopped drinking himself into a dangerous stupor. I would have used my big black steel-toed boot to knock him back if he refused to leave my dog alone.


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## Jack's Dad

Wild Wolf said:


> Sometimes I truly feel like the world has gone crazy.
> 
> Whatever happened to "NO MEANS NO"?
> 
> This isn't your fault. I truly believe that. You tried to prevent this, and the aggressor (the human idiot) created the problem. If he would have backed off like EVERY RESPONSIBLE, REASONABLE INDIVIDUAL SHOULD DO, this would not have happened. I blame the guy 100%. People forget that despite the fact that they are dogs, they are instinctual animals with weapons for mouths. He should have respected you, respected the animal and stopped drinking himself into a dangerous stupor. I would have used my big black steel-toed boot to knock him back if he refused to leave my dog alone.


So the next time the dog that you know will bite, bites someone just take one of these it's not your fault posts and show it to animal control. I'm sure they will be perfectly understanding.
As I said in an earlier post the world has it's share of stupid, ignorant, drunk, drugged people.
You will from time to time come in contact with people from one or more of these groups. You own the dog that will bite so yes, legally you are responsible.


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## Meekah's Bud

First off, I am very sorry to hear about the bite to you hand and hope it heals completely and quickly with no permanent damage. That being said, I can fully understand both sides of the argument, here, but I am very sorry, you told the idiot to back off, numerous times, and so you did what you could to prevent this. You had your dog on a leash and under control. No means no, or so the court says in certain cases, so get away should mean the same. I have two very clearly posted signs in the doors to the house. The first says "Beware of Dog". The second clearly states 3 things. 1) Do not touch the dog, 2) Do not make eye contact with the dog, and 3) Do not talk to the dog. These three rules, I make clear for one reason and that is that it is a dogs need to sniff another dog or human first to identify. This comes before vocal or physical contact. Only after the dog has been permitted to sniff is anyone allowed to even move beyond the door, and even then they are advised that they are to fully respect the dogs space, as this house is the dog's space. I will not even open the door until I have watched people read the rules and acknowledge, to me, that they understand. I feel that your dog may have well felt that both he, and you, were in danger and he instinctively went into a full protective mode. I guess I will never understand how humans can be so stupid if we are supposed to be the beings with superior intelligence. I also have horses, here, and see the same type of utter stupidity from people that think that a horse is a pet. Dogs and horses are animals with a much different thought pattern. JMO


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## spidermilk

I don't have the same problem that you do- it isn't nearly as serious. That said, there are certainly things that people do that make my dog uncomfortable. Just yesterday we have a friend and his 3 year old daughter over. Dax isn't around a lot of children, so we usually have him in a down-stay in one are of the room and the 3 year old playing in another area. The 3 year old can follow commands and not chase him around grabbing his tail and Dax can just calmly lay there and watch her/fall asleep.
However, her father decided to get into a staring contest with Dax. Dax starts getting all whiny and I notice that this guy is just STARING AT HIM NOT BLINKING. I just said 'DO NOT STARE AT MY DOG' and led Dax away to get something to chew on and have some quiet crate time. I was so mad. People are so stupid.

I am reading 'The Other End of the Leash' by Patricia McConnell and she talks about this a lot- just how in her experience no matter HOW sternly you tell someone to not touch/look at/whatever your dog- they will still do it (unless you body block them). It is funny how you basically have to treat the human like a completely untrained dog who doesn't know what you're asking them to do.


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## Wolfgeist

Jack's Dad said:


> So the next time the dog that you know will bite, bites someone just take one of these it's not your fault posts and show it to animal control. I'm sure they will be perfectly understanding.
> As I said in an earlier post the world has it's share of stupid, ignorant, drunk, drugged people.
> You will from time to time come in contact with people from one or more of these groups. You own the dog that will bite so yes, legally you are responsible.



They should be more understanding, actually.. Legally, she is responsible as an owner of course. I meant it is not directly, literally her fault that her dog bit someone, it is the guy's fault for provoking the animal. His behaviour caused the bite.


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## Jack's Dad

Wild Wolf said:


> They should be more understanding, actually.. Legally, she is responsible as an owner of course. I meant it is not directly, literally her fault that her dog bit someone, it is the guy's fault for provoking the animal. His behaviour caused the bite.


I don't disagree you on that point Wild Wolf.

What concerns me though is the focus on everybody out there who doesn't comply with how some on the forum want the world to behave.

We can't control "them" out there, the only thing we can control is ourselves and our dogs.

The law is with "them" out there. The dog will could wind up PTS if not controlled.

It may be entertaining to talk about what idiots there are in the world but that won't save a dogs life if it bites. 
Depending on where you live usually 2 times and the dog is finished. If this bite is or was reported that would be no. one even though it bit it's owner. The law usually considers that vicious because dogs don't normally bite their owners.

It's sort of like alcoholics blaming everyone else for their drinking. As long as you look outside the problem isn't solved.


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## Packen

APBTLove said:


> How did he know? He was in mid lunge when I grabbed at his snout and his mouth closed on me. He made no move to bite again and immediately went into a submissive posture when I said "HEY!!" And he seemed to catch on that he got me, not the bad guy.
> 
> And how would you know my dog knew who he was biting? I was the one standing next to him.
> 
> He is also not a normal dog, for those who don't know. He's had serious problems since he was a few weeks old and he's only improved. And the only way he will bite again is it someone again physically forces themselves on him. He is either by my side or contained, so it is not as if he will run up to a stranger and bite them.


We like to see things the way we want them and miss the big picture. The dog bit you, done deal move on and don't make excuses. Work on control or never put him in a situation where it will happen again.


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## ShadowBandit

Packen said:


> We like to see things the way we want them and miss the big picture. The dog bit you, done deal move on and don't make excuses. Work on control or never put him in a situation where it will happen again.


With our first GSD it got to me she could not be in a room with guests. She really hated having a pet sitter, would not leave the bedroom she stays in and guarded the upstairs. After that she would flip out if anyone came near her or the house. So it became habit to shut her upstairs when guests were coming or to quickly throw her in the bathroom if the postman came to the door. We even tried having her on a tie out in a secluded part of our yard during a 4th of July picnic but when a wayward frisbee landed where she could get it and my brother went after it he got a nip on the butt and lost a pair of shorts! As I said in the end my dog got put down for biting someone. We tried muzzling her when guests where around but she charged a friend, barking and growling and almost knocked her down our deck stairs. It got to be a no strangers no way situation. Definetly isolate your dog unless you can control the situation or J's issues aren't so severe. Do it for the safety of your dog!


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## DJEtzel

Packen said:


> We like to see things the way we want them and miss the big picture. The dog bit you, done deal move on and don't make excuses. Work on control or never put him in a situation where it will happen again.


Just wanted to comment that I think this post makes no sense as to what you are trying to argue. The OP isn't making any excuses for what happened and didn't put him in the situation to begin with. Dogs redirect aggression ALL the time, and you cannot tell her that her dog didn't and actually meant to bite her. You have no idea because you were not there.


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## Gwenhwyfair

I understand, I meant more going into the future. I don't want to pile on to what sounds like a really frustrating unhappy event. My point is if it wasn't my roommates it was the people they dragged over (so to speak). 

One night I was out with friends and when I got home I couldn't find my cat. He was normally a very outgoing very friendly cat. I found him in my closet with blood on his face.

Turns out my roomie had invited the neighbors over and those guys were just mean and nasty and they had thrown my cat against the wall.

I was devastated, I wasn't there to protect him, my poor cat was traumatized for months any time someone came in the door he didn't know. It still breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes thinking of my sweet trusting cat being abused like that.

That was the end of roommates for me forever more and my raman noodle dinners were well worth it.

What ever you do, try to set yourself up so you don't have to have roommates again......best wishes to you and all your pets!



APBTLove said:


> I totally agree about not getting animals while in my situation, but I've had them before I had roommates and I can't just get rid of them because I have idiots living here.. Unfortunately I expected the others to have the same respect for me and my possessions (including the animals) as I have for them.
> 
> If I had a stranger in the house, I would have acted differently. But I knew the people and they do know the rules, I had to reason to suspect I'd have a problem. J was leashed and I was holding his collar as I walked through the house, the only time he runs the house is when I am the only one there.
> 
> Next paycheck I'm getting a muzzle and working with him. It's not fair to him, but it's necessary until I can get out of there with him.


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## APBTLove

Thank you Danielle..

Believe me, I do not put up with owner/handler aggression from my dogs. Even redirecting out of frustration - I had a rescue who did that. I saw what he did. I don't blame him for his reaction a bit, I knew the man wasn't a burglar or a predator or something, J didn't. He saw someone being rough with me AND him, physically pushing me and getting loud, and took the defensive. I barely got my hand in the way, I thought he got the guy too, but it was my blood on him. That's how close it was, J had no chance to back off, and no way to know he had me. 

If the guy had been a real threat to me, I would have been proud at how J responded.


Gwen, I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm actually planning on moving, I'd rather live off of the Ramen than worry about the safety of my pets, they're just about all I have. I would be so incensed if someone did that to my animal. Oh boy. One of her other friends, the RM, put my very expensive tarantula that I'd raised from nearly an egg and was 7" long in a tank with my other Tarantula, they fought each other and the big one died. I came home to that. I've also walked in on that RM video taping her friend messing with my Savannah Monitor, who is very aggressive, hoping to get it attacking him on video. So now my room looks like a zoo with all of the animals..


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## DJEtzel

APBTLove said:


> Thank you Danielle..
> 
> Believe me, I do not put up with owner/handler aggression from my dogs. Even redirecting out of frustration - I had a rescue who did that. I saw what he did. I don't blame him for his reaction a bit, I knew the man wasn't a burglar or a predator or something, J didn't. He saw someone being rough with me AND him, physically pushing me and getting loud, and took the defensive. I barely got my hand in the way, I thought he got the guy too, but it was my blood on him. That's how close it was, J had no chance to back off, and no way to know he had me.
> 
> If the guy had been a real threat to me, I would have been proud at how J responded.
> 
> 
> Gwen, I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm actually planning on moving, I'd rather live off of the Ramen than worry about the safety of my pets, they're just about all I have. I would be so incensed if someone did that to my animal. Oh boy. One of her other friends, the RM, put my very expensive tarantula that I'd raised from nearly an egg and was 7" long in a tank with my other Tarantula, they fought each other and the big one died. I came home to that. I've also walked in on that RM video taping her friend messing with my Savannah Monitor, who is very aggressive, hoping to get it attacking him on video. So now my room looks like a zoo with all of the animals..


*shakes head* 

I have two extra bedrooms here if you're interested....


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## Good_Karma

First off, it's super easy to Monday morning quarterback any kind of event like this. There are lots of "you should haves" and "why didn't yous" that we can come up with, but quite frankly, none of us are prophets who can foresee the future and be able to predict all the possible outcomes of taking our dogs out to potty. I think you did the best you could with the information you had (if you had the additional info about the guy's state of intoxication, I'm sure you would have made different choices). And it really sucks that you got your hand bit (PLEASE get to the doctor at the first sign of infection, you could have long term damage there!), but it probably works out better for your dog that it was your hand and not the drunk guy's hand. It sounds like the only way you could have gotten this guy to move out of your way was with a cattle prod. They sell those at Tractor Supply, in case you were curious.


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## Freestep

APBTLove said:


> One of her other friends, the RM, put my very expensive tarantula that I'd raised from nearly an egg and was 7" long in a tank with my other Tarantula, they fought each other and the big one died. I came home to that. I've also walked in on that RM video taping her friend messing with my Savannah Monitor, who is very aggressive, hoping to get it attacking him on video.


Where are you finding these awful roommates? I'd sooner live in my car than share a house with people like that (and have, actually).


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## sparra

Freestep said:


> Where are you finding these awful roommates? I'd sooner live in my car than share a house with people like that (and have, actually).


 For a moment there I thought you were talking about the spiders.....
That is fascinating that you raised one from an egg.....I can see how that would be very sad.
Over here we have black widows but they are the ones that live around houses they are also called the black house spider....grow quite big and have a nasty bite....they are most likely different to what you have.


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## Packen

DJEtzel said:


> Just wanted to comment that I think this post makes no sense as to what you are trying to argue. The OP isn't making any excuses for what happened and didn't put him in the situation to begin with. Dogs redirect aggression ALL the time, and you cannot tell her that her dog didn't and actually meant to bite her. You have no idea because you were not there.


Sorry, no arguments from me. Just saying it as it is.


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## DJEtzel

Packen said:


> Sorry, no arguments from me. Just saying it as it is.


Except you're not. You're completely distorting it to fit your warped sense of what happened.


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## Packen

I feel sorry for you.


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## Gwenhwyfair

IN RED....:spittingcoffee:

(good post)





Good_Karma said:


> First off, it's super easy to Monday morning quarterback any kind of event like this. There are lots of "you should haves" and "why didn't yous" that we can come up with, but quite frankly, none of us are prophets who can foresee the future and be able to predict all the possible outcomes of taking our dogs out to potty. I think you did the best you could with the information you had (if you had the additional info about the guy's state of intoxication, I'm sure you would have made different choices). And it really sucks that you got your hand bit (PLEASE get to the doctor at the first sign of infection, you could have long term damage there!), but it probably works out better for your dog that it was your hand and not the drunk guy's hand. It sounds like the only way you could have gotten this guy to move out of your way was with a cattle prod. They sell those at Tractor Supply, in case you were curious.


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## DJEtzel

Packen said:


> I feel sorry for you.


Haha, no reason for you to! 



Gwenhwyfair said:


> IN RED....:spittingcoffee:
> 
> (good post)


:thumbup:


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## APBTLove

> Where are you finding these awful roommates? I'd sooner live in my car than share a house with people like that (and have, actually).


She is actually a friend of mine.. You never see the other side of people until you live with them 


I agree with the cattle prod. I would have used it, too.


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## pyratemom

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I understand, I meant more going into the future. I don't want to pile on to what sounds like a really frustrating unhappy event. My point is if it wasn't my roommates it was the people they dragged over (so to speak).
> 
> One night I was out with friends and when I got home I couldn't find my cat. He was normally a very outgoing very friendly cat. I found him in my closet with blood on his face.
> 
> Turns out my roomie had invited the neighbors over and those guys were just mean and nasty and they had thrown my cat against the wall.
> 
> I was devastated, I wasn't there to protect him, my poor cat was traumatized for months any time someone came in the door he didn't know. It still breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes thinking of my sweet trusting cat being abused like that.
> 
> That was the end of roommates for me forever more and my raman noodle dinners were well worth it.
> 
> What ever you do, try to set yourself up so you don't have to have roommates again......best wishes to you and all your pets!



My God! If I ever came home to that situation there would have been **** to pay. The neighbor boys would have been arrested for animal cruelty if not beaten to pulp and then fed to sharks first. It breaks my heart to think that there are actually people that cruel, mean,and nasty that are still allowed to walk around and interact with other animals. I have to admire you for not reacting badly. Raman noodles for the win!


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## LaRen616

I dont see how it is APBTLove's fault. I really dont.

She came home from a walk with her dog, there were drunk people there, she was trying to avoid them, drunk guy walks up to her and the dog, has them up against the wall and is being forceful with her and the dog. She warns him and tries to get away and he doesn't let up. The dog goes to bite the guy (he obviously feels threatened and I do not blame the dog) but APBTLove takes the bite so the idiot doesn't get bit. 

I would have been livid. If someone had me and Sinister against a wall and I told him to back off and they kept coming at me and I felt threatend and thought that my dog would bite I bet he would.

Dogs dont like people getting in their space, if their owner is upset or uneasy the dog can sense that and will react, I have also seen dogs act differently when drunks are around.

I dont blame the dog and I dont blame APBTLove.


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## APBTLove

Thank you LaRen, I was not about to make excuses for myself and try to defend myself, because I DID in a roundabout and involuntary way put J in that situation and I was blaming myself. I'm so overprotective of him all of the time I am still in shock that this happened. I've never had a screw-up like this involving a human. 



J's basket muzzle is on it's way and I'm going to make sure it's on and I have that bull-prod in my other hand when guests are over..


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## Good_Karma

How is your hand doing?


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## Lilie

I think it's a good lesson for everyone. You can't control your enviroment 100% of the time. Even if your dog doesn't have behaviorial issues, bad things can happen in your own home. 

Hope your hand is healing!


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## pyratemom

APBTLove said:


> Thank you LaRen, I was not about to make excuses for myself and try to defend myself, because I DID in a roundabout and involuntary way put J in that situation and I was blaming myself. I'm so overprotective of him all of the time I am still in shock that this happened. I've never had a screw-up like this involving a human.
> 
> 
> 
> J's basket muzzle is on it's way and I'm going to make sure it's on and I have that bull-prod in my other hand when guests are over..


Glad to hear that you will have a basket muzzle handy - to bad you can't use them on people - but you can certainly use that cattle prod on them. Good for you. Hope your had is getting better.


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## gsdraven

Good to see you around again, APBT. How about some updated pictures of that handsome boy of yours? Pretty please. 

So sorry to hear about the situation that you were put in. I hope that your hand is healing well and very glad to hear that you invested in a muzzle for J. I know it seems unfair but with the unpredictable nature of your home, it's for his safety.


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## APBTLove

I just went and took a few pics of him. Now I need to charge the camera and then I'll put them up for you guys. He's such a ham.. 

The bite seems to be healing well. No sign of infection.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Thanks, this thread actually brings back some memories. It was almost 30 years ago, I was just 20. Those guys were rough and tough. I knew enough at least to avoid them, stupid roommate did not.

In another incident one night one of the guys got in a fight with his brother and was out in the parking lot pounding his brother's head onto the curb, police were called. They had a huge doberman too, Moose they called him. I avoided the dog too.

I had warned my roommate to be careful, after she saw the beating incident I think it finally sunk into her thick skull.

Soon as I could get out of there into a smaller and cheaper apt I did. 

In my experience, when living in a new place (especially in a new town) it's best to keep to yourself until you really get a feel for the people around you.....and what I tell young people all the time, don't ever ignore the warning signs people give off.

APBT I'm glad you're doing better and that your hand is healing well.





pyratemom said:


> My God! If I ever came home to that situation there would have been **** to pay. The neighbor boys would have been arrested for animal cruelty if not beaten to pulp and then fed to sharks first. It breaks my heart to think that there are actually people that cruel, mean,and nasty that are still allowed to walk around and interact with other animals. I have to admire you for not reacting badly. Raman noodles for the win!


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