# Seven Month Old Hip and Elbow Dysplasia x-rays



## twinkles (Jul 31, 2010)

Our seven month old was just diagnosed with bilateral Hip Dysplasia and right elbow displasia. We are trying to evaluate options, but we have very little experience. We are trying to get some informed objective input on how bad or not so bad our little pups condition really is. X-rays attached.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

The right hip is really bad! Oh wow! I don't know anything about elbows but I do know that is a incorrect xray if you were to send it to OFA. 

Do you have any Health Contract with the breeder?

Is this your vets diagnoses, OFAs or a specialist?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Our first shepherd had HD. As a pup and young dog she did real good but as she got older getting up and down stairs or going from down to sit were really hard for her. Your vet should be able to give you options for how to go forward. 
Our dog was put on Rimadyl for pain as needed but times have changed, I'm sure there are more options now than there were back then.

This is a picture of x-rays for a 2 year old female. The OFA rating was excellant. You can see how different the two look.


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## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

Here are some good links on Positioning;

http://leerburg.com/hipart.htm

http://schwarzkennels.tripod.com/id142.html

http://offa.org/elbowgrade.html

http://offa.org/hipgrade.html


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## Marissa (Dec 31, 2009)

KLCecil said:


> The right hip is really bad! Oh wow! I don't know anything about elbows but I do know that is a incorrect xray if you were to send it to OFA.
> 
> Do you have any Health Contract with the breeder?
> 
> Is this your vets diagnoses, OFAs or a specialist?


 
Agree that right hip is HORRIBLE, left isn't great but much better than the right. It looks like the spine is crooked...did they sedate for these radiographs do you know? I would get another one done with the body more aligned, I think regardless that right hip may have to be done at some point if she is only 7 months old


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, your pup is very young. Is she showing signs, limping etc? 

I also see that she is a female. Has she been in heat yet? 

Here is the thing. The right hip does look poor, but if she is near her heat cycle, things do loosen up when they are getting ready to cycle. 

I would check into her diet, get her off puppy food if that is what you are feeding. Do not let her become overweight at all. Do not supplement with calcium at all. Try to find some esterC to give her, it can help. 

Lots of dogs have mild hip dysplasia with no problems whatsoever. If you supplement her with vitamin C, and ensure she is not overweight, do not force her to jump or jog or bicycle, but do allow her to be a puppy. This can improve over the next 18 months or so. 

If you want to return her to the breeder, that is a decision you can also make at this time. If returning her is a thought, than earlier rather than later, because you are probably already attached and it will only get worse.

The elbow x-ray is not a view I am familiar with at all. 

I would NOT rush into surgery with the hips. Elbows, all the research I have done kind of suggests that depending on what type of problem is in there, early surgery might be better. 

With or without dietary and environmental intervention, your girl may still have a problem. But you might be able to improve it considerably. 

Definitely call the breeder and if possible e-mail her the pictures of the hips and elbow and see what her take is on it. 

Good luck. I am sure this is a heavy blow. Hoping others will pipe in with better suggestions than mine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I saw a pretty significant difference in Jax when I started her on supplements. She has mild HD according to one vet, would OFA fair according to another. But she was bunny hopping and showing discomfort. 

I have her on 
Double dose of Springtimeinc joint supplement
1000 mg of fish oil (540 combined EPA/DHA) - to help prevent arthritis
400 iu of vt E
1000 mg of Vit C in addition to the 750 in the Springtime joint - research shows that this may have significant influence on HD

Definitely start her on supplements. Also, take her to a specialist. My understanding is that hips change as they grow which is why they don't have a final xray for OFA until they are 2 years. How they are positioned can have a big difference in how the xrays show.

Sue - Ester C has calcium in it. Shouldn't they use regular Vit C instead?


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## twinkles (Jul 31, 2010)

Thanks for the quick input. Let me answer a few of the questions you have asked.

The xrays were taken at the vet school of a major university that specializes in the diagnosis of juvenile hip dysplasia. There were nine views taken but these were the two the doctor used to explain the issue to me. X-rays were taken under sedation. Other factors in the diagnosis were a "positive Ortoloni sign" and pain on extension of both hips.

We took her to the vet because she was stiff in the mornings, had begun to refuse to jump up into the car (she loves riding in the car), and because when we took her to a schutzhund club to see if we were interested, they advised that she was "bunny hopping."

Advice we have gotten has ranged from euthanasia, to TPO surgery, to Adequan with lower protein diet. Quite a range of options. We just aren't sure how to proceed. (We have been in contact with the breeder throughout and we have reached an agreement on that aspect of the issue that does not include returning this puppy.)


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

As mentioned, there is clear HD in the right hip. No question about it. I wouldn't say it looks horrible, but they're clearly not right. Any symptoms yet?

Also, I second Jax's recommendation on the supplements. She gave some pretty good products to give a shot before anything else. A specialist couldn't hurt either.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

The positioning on that x-ray is no good which will exaggerate hip problems and this dog is still really young. I would start on supplements and have x-rays redone when the dog is closer to 18 months. Limit jumping and get the dog swimming 2-3 per week.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Jax, I was out looking for EsterC and reading labels last night trying to find stuff without Zinc in it last night. I could not find EsterC so I could not read its label. 

Thanks for letting me know it has calcium. I found some stuff that has vitamin C in it, and Glacosomine, but no zinc and no calcium so I bought that.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Jax08 said:


> I saw a pretty significant difference in Jax when I started her on supplements. She has mild HD according to one vet, would OFA fair according to another. But she was bunny hopping and showing discomfort.
> 
> I have her on
> Double dose of Springtimeinc joint supplement
> ...


Hmmm...look familiar  except that I give 2450mg of Ester C/day and I give him Joint Health and Longevity from Springtime Inc (so his total C is over 3000mg). It has made a HUGE difference for Rafi. Today he was leaping up onto these huge ledges...really unbelievable how athletic he is considering how bad his joints are. 

Springtime Inc has a C complex that maybe doesn't have calcium????

Also, my first gsd was diagnosed with severe bilateral HD at under a year old. Both of her hips looked like the right one on your dog. This was more than 20 years ago and I didn't know about supplements but I did keep her really active with moderate exercise (walking, hiking and swimming) and then did a total hip replacement on one side when she was 5. Believe it or 
not she lived to be almost 12 and died of something else.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

selzer said:


> Jax, I was out looking for EsterC and reading labels last night trying to find stuff without Zinc in it last night. I could not find EsterC so I could not read its label.
> 
> Thanks for letting me know it has calcium. I found some stuff that has vitamin C in it, and Glacosomine, but no zinc and no calcium so I bought that.


Here's some Ester C info. It's easier on the stomach and I think it absorbs into your system better but does have 110 mg calcium per 1000 mg vit C

The Bioavailability of Different Forms of Vitamin C
http://www.kalahealth.com/esterc.htm

Why no zinc? Just curious.


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## Jgk2383 (Aug 5, 2009)

Can someone provide a link of a vitamin c or ester c that can be used for both a 11 month old dog and eventually a puppy? Thanks!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would just use regular vitamin C. It's just Ascorbic Acid. The downside to that is that it can be harsh on their stomach. Start with 500 mg and work up to the dosage you want. You can buy it off vitacost.com for a good price.


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

So tell me why is the calcium in Ester C a bad thing? I give my dogs Ester C


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There's lots of information out there on not giving extra calcium to large breed puppies so their bones grow and form a bit slower. Just do a google search.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

If this is only a 6 month old pup, I would wait til 18 months old to take another set of x-rays. Supplements and proper exercise (not jumping high or down off things), but make sure the muscles are exercised (someone mentioned swimming). You can see the x-ray is poorly taken. It actually looks like the right leg is being pulled toward the left side, therefore making it look more dysplastic. If you were to divide that picture in half, the long way, the two sides should be equal. They are not. I do think there is some HD showing, but to me looks more exaggerated with the positioning. I have no idea why the elbows were x-rayed in that position either. I think the OFA website probably has information on proper positioning for x-rays.


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## Jgk2383 (Aug 5, 2009)

This? NSI Vitamin C -- 1000 mg - 250 Capsules - Vitacost


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Our first shepherd had HD. As a pup and young dog she did real good but as she got older getting up and down stairs or going from down to sit were really hard for her. Your vet should be able to give you options for how to go forward.
> Our dog was put on Rimadyl for pain as needed but times have changed, I'm sure there are more options now than there were back then.
> 
> This is a picture of x-rays for a 2 year old female. The OFA rating was excellant. You can see how different the two look.


A perfect example of how x-rays should be taken. Look at the pelvic bones. See how much bone is under the legs, equal on both legs. And also ( I have no idea the correct names for these things) the two circles are even. I have read on more forums about peoples puppies or dogs being diagnosed with HD and that they will need surgery. All they really need is a vet that can take a good x-ray. If your vet doesnt offer digital x-rays, find one that does. (This goes for everyone.) The less time spent under anesthesia the better, the longer, the more lax they get. And if you only go to that vet for x-rays, thats fine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jgk2383 said:


> This? NSI Vitamin C -- 1000 mg - 250 Capsules - Vitacost


That's regular Vt C. I like the powder they sell. It's 5000 mg per teaspoon. It might give you a bit better control over the amount to start with.


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## Miikkas mom (Dec 21, 2009)

My dog had a really bad PennHip report. We had PennHip done when she was about 4.5 months old. Miikka is in the 10th percentile, meaning 90% of GSD have better hips than she does. Here is my thread regarding Miikka (you might find some helpful info here too): 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...out-there-yes-i-have-hip-x-rays-you-view.html

We have been giving her supplements, many of the same ones mentioned already in this thread, feeding her a raw diet (however, she has stomach issues so I might have to go back to kibble or cooked food), making sure she gets proper exercise, trying to limit jumping, and I think most importantly, making sure she does not get overweight! 

We are holding off on spaying her until she is fully mature. Because of the HD, my thinking is that I want her growth plates to develop properly, etc and I don’t want spaying her too soon to interfere in that process (if that makes any sense). Of course, it may not matter one iota when an HD dog is altered but it seems to me that you’d want their bones to fully develop. No? If you decide not to have her spayed until she’s older than you’ll need to be *extra, extra, extra, extra* vigilant so she does not get pregnant. Obviously, you don’t want the HD gene passed down to her pups. Miikka has had one heat so far. Honestly, it was not that bad (knocking on wood #2 will be just as easy).

We will have OFA’s done when she’s a little older – probably around 24 months. 

I am very curious as to what agreement you worked out with your breeder. If you don’t want to discuss it openly, please feel free to PM me.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Springtime INc has a C supplement with absorbic acid Dog - C-Complex for Dogs - Springtime, Inc.

I used it for quite a while and honestly did not see the difference like I did with Ester C.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

twinkles said:


> The xrays were taken at the vet school of a major university that specializes in the diagnosis of juvenile hip dysplasia. There were nine views taken but these were the two the doctor used to explain the issue to me. X-rays were taken under sedation. Other factors in the diagnosis were a "positive Ortoloni sign" and pain on extension of both hips.
> 
> Advice we have gotten has ranged from euthanasia, to TPO surgery, to Adequan with lower protein diet. Quite a range of options. We just aren't sure how to proceed. (We have been in contact with the breeder throughout and we have reached an agreement on that aspect of the issue that does not include returning this puppy.)


I've been through a hip replacement with one of my dogs. Here were her hip x-rays:









I know positioning isn't great, but you can get an idea. Anyway we took her to Ohio State for her THR. She was just one year old when the surgery was done. The doctor who did her surgery said he preferred to operate on a dog at her age. She's doing really great now, and we're hoping that she doesn't need her left hip done too.

I would hope that although you listed euthanasia as one of the options you were presented with, that isn't really one you would consider. There really isn't any reason why your dog can't live a long, full and active life. I know it's a very personal decision about how much money you are willing to spend on a medical procedure for a pet, but for me it was worth the money to put her through the surgery. Supplements may help you, but if you have a university vet telling you that surgery is an option, I would think that would be the best thing to do.

Good luck with your decision, if you decide to go through the surgery, there are several people on this forum who have had dogs go through this. I'm happy to talk to you if you'd like to PM me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

BowWowMeow said:


> Springtime INc has a C supplement with absorbic acid Dog - C-Complex for Dogs - Springtime, Inc.
> 
> I used it for quite a while and honestly did not see the difference like I did with Ester C.



Ruth - I swear I read an article comparing Ester C to regular C and, if I remember correctly, the body more readily absorbs the Ester C. I can't find it though. I looked through Jax's HD post on the other board and it's not there. Have you ever read anything about it? If it's true then it's certainly better to have the adult dogs ono the Ester C but not puppies, right?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The Vitamin C Foundation


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

zinc, should not give too much of, will build up, and my food has enough of that in it according to the owner of my dog food company that I talked to.

As for calcium. Dog food has enough calcium in it for dogs and puppies. Too much calcium builds up in calcium deposits in joints and can make the problem/arthritis worse.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What does zinc do? I used to work in the zinc reclaim department at a factory. LOL I probably have had enough for a lifetime!


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## lish91883 (Nov 2, 2006)

How does the joint formula by Springtime compare to Dasuquin w/ msm?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I've never used Dasuquin. Ruth may have. Did you try doing a google search for product comparison?


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## lish91883 (Nov 2, 2006)

My girl is also still on puppy food. She is ten months. Should I start to wean her onto an adult formula?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would. 

I am not sure about the zinc, but some of the multi-vitamins for joint support has it in there, so I am going with my dog food people and not going to go overboard on it.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

We gave our puppies, starting at 8wks a 20lb (or was it 25lbs?) bag of puppy food and then switched to adult per the breeders instructions. (One bag per dog, it wasn't shared) 

I can't remember how long that bag lasted but they weren't on puppy food very long.


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## twinkles (Jul 31, 2010)

Here is how we have decided to proceed:

Obviously we are not going to euthanize our puppy.

But neither are we going to do the TPO surgery for a variety of reasons.

Here is what we are doing:

We started adequan injections today.
We switched from puppy food to adult food.
We have had her on Spring Time joint supplements but we are doubling the dose.
We are adding Vitamine C.
We are adding fish oil.
We are adding Vitamine E.
We are continuing our daily walks.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I've always read Esther-c is better even if it IS for a young GSD. Here are the article(s)

Ester-C: Miracle Cure for Hip Dysplasia???

Ester C for Dogs


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## Jgk2383 (Aug 5, 2009)

IM on the hunt for an ester c product. But everything im finding in google is coming up as caplets or tablets. not powder or capsules.


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