# Upcoming Male



## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Would love to hear any comments. Thanks!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Very nice looking - "the look of Eagles"


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

What a handsome boy!


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## GSDgirlAL (Jan 4, 2008)

beautiful boy! And, I think he really needs to come to my house


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

wowzer he is handsome


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

All I can say is WOW, what a looker, hope his mind is as good as he looks


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*swoooooon THUD!!*









He looks much like my last Service Dog! His head is masculine, but not dry (although I highly prefer his look much better than a dry dog). How old is he currently? He looks like he will be filling out nicely. I REALLY love his expression! I'd like to see deeper pigment without the bright spots at inner thigh, abdomen, etc. Would be nice if we could see to guage pasterns and feet. If he stamps that gorgeous head and expression onto his offspring, that would be wonderful! What is his parentage? What sort of plans have you for evaluating/training this stunning boy? He's beautiful, and he'll be one to watch!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/541002.html

Kevin son, explains the great head!!


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Very handsome boy.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Lies, how did you find him on the pedigree database? I was trying to be a little secretive about it! LOL!!! Yes, he is a Kevin son. Although Kevin doesn't usually produce such masculine heads from what I have seen. The females he produces are usually much better structurally. But, this boy has it all.

In the head? He is awesome. Very sensible. Extremely biddable. Very easy to live with. Confident, but not cocky. He is not a hard core SchH dog and that is not what I wanted when I bred this litter. Iam sure he could do it, but I have no interest in SchH. I train and breed service dog candidates for the disabled.

His brother is a hearing assistance dog for a deaf woman in Bellevue, WA. 

He is only 2. OFA Good with 80 percentile PennHips!! I bred him just recently to a nice part New Skette bitch. The puppies are GORGEOUS! 

I have been herding and tracking with him, primarily. I may also train him to do service work for me for mobility. Herding is not my strong point. I am just learning. But, the experts I train with told me I should take him to the nationals next year for herding. I was quite proud. Already did his hearding instinct test.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

This is Brinx' brother, Baewulf. He is a hearing assistance dog for a deaf woman in Bellevue, WA. What an incredible temperament. Their mother is Mavis v Bullinger. I think Mavis brought all the masculinity to the boys. Their sister, Brekka is a feminine Baewulf.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ILuv2TrackLies, how did you find him on the pedigree database? I was trying to be a little secretive about it! LOL!!!


Sorry, lol! He reminded me a lot of a dog I know, so I wondered if they had similar lines or any relation.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Good research! LOL!! Who is the dog you know?


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## IloveGSDs (Dec 13, 2003)

My Cody is a distant relative. Kevin is his grandpa. Here are a couple of pictures. His head is not as masculine but I think it is not feminine either.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

I love his head! And, yes, you certainly can tell he is a male! Very nice!

Brinx was only a year old in the head shot. I think he looks even more masculine now! <vbg>

I'll have to figure out a way to post his new head shot.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)




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## Stephanie17s (Jun 16, 2009)

gorgeous!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Beautiful! My Dena was a Kevin daughter. She had a gorgeous head too.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks for the nice comments! I would love to see pics of other Kevin daughters and sons if you have them! 

Carole, did you get Cody from Ginger? 

Fran


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## IloveGSDs (Dec 13, 2003)

Yes, Cody was purchased from Ginger. She soon after stopped breeding shepherds and is now breeding/showing Podengo's. I have not kept in touch with her and didn't realize she was back from England and is now in Florida. I really liked her dogs and she was very knowledgeable. We had the Air Force in common as I am active duty and her husband is/was? active duty AF. 

She did a great job picking Cody out for me. He has a wonderful temperament, loves everyone and is go, go, go all the time.


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## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

Gorgeous...love his head.


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## BlkCzechGSD (Jul 9, 2009)

beautiful male gorgeous dark pigment love him!


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## hannibalGSD (Apr 28, 2008)

Woooooow  too bad hes not high drive I love his conformation


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Quote:Woooooow  too bad hes not high drive I love his conformation


Was this mentioned somewhere and I missed it? Or is it an assumption?


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## hannibalGSD (Apr 28, 2008)

yes it was mentioned








quote: He is not a hard core SchH dog


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

I don't breed for hard core SchH dogs. I breed for dogs that can do service work for the disabled and dogs that I can live with in a social, home environment. His temperament is exactly what I think works in the real world.

I have one hard core, prey drive off the wall dog that is a menace to live with and a threat to all my other dogs. I won't have that again in my home, nor will I ask anyone else to live with that kind of temperament in the puppies I bring into this world. This dog needs to live in a sterile kennel environment completely controlled with limited or no interaction with other dogs. Some folks might enjoy that or feel that is appropriate, but I don't. She would have been the perfect SchH candidate, if that had been my interest and I had that sterile kennel environment. She has done nothing but break my heart and held my household in hostage. She is a Fritz Farbenspiel daughter and gorgeous. But nasty as they come with too much prey drive.

Brinx is exactly what I want. He has work ethic, biddability, very nice herding instinct, is protective when needed, but is a dream to live with in a social pack of 6 other GSDs (excluding "Cujo" mentioned above), all in my home without a squabble. Brinx could do therapy work, service work, competition herding on a national level, and competition tracking, or any obedience I asked of him.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Quote:yes it was mentioned \:\)
> quote: He is not a hard core SchH dog


I've never been one to believe that just because a dog isn't willing to tear after a sleeve it means he's not a high drive dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Generalizations generalizations, they are often the sign of uninformed, IMO. Farbenspeil is a West showline dog if I am not mistaken. I have seen very few High line dogs witn "hard core Sch talent" or "hardcore prey drive". I have seen many west showlines dogs with weak nerves and moderate drives but because the nerves are weak then the leakage results in inability to settle and often a high degree of flight or civil behavoir. These type of dogs are "POOR" candidates for Sch or police dogs. I would project that just by your definition of the dog and the supposition that the dog would be hardcore sch dog...that you have never titled a dog in Sch. I could be wrong and correct me if I am, but it sounds like an uninformed opinion of Sch AND the capabilities of the dog. 
This is how people get wrong impressions of the sport(especially AKC breed people), spread this junk, and use it for a reason to malign sch dogs. Most good to better Sch dogs could do service work easily if the training and imprinting is instilled because their nerve strength would allow them. I would bet by the definition of "hardcore Sch dog" many people reading the post immediately thought this Farbenspiel dog was a "working line" dog. Ahgr!!!


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Respectfully, Mr. Cliftonanderson, have you ever trained then placed a "good to better" SchH dog as a service dog, i.e. mobility dog, hearing assistance dog, wheelchair dog, or guide dog? Lets just say that yes, nerve has to be there, but if someone in a wheelchair has to deliver a hard correction with a sharpend prong collar or use an electronic collar to get the dog's attention , then the dog is not appropriate for service work. Nerve does not equal hardness. And hardness for SchH has no place in the service dog world. Nor does dog aggression have any place in the service dog world. Nor does a dog who cannot stop moving inside the house.

When I say "hard core SchH Dog" I speak of high enough prey drive, that the dog's pain tolerance sky rockets. A dog with pain tolerance to be a police dog, or highly rated SchH is not a dog for someone to handle that has a disability. In most cases, someone who needs a service dog cannot deliver what the dog needs to behave.

While I have not trained a SchH dog to title, I have trained every aspect of SchH -the tracking to FH and obedience including climbing walls, retrieving ANY object not just a dumbbell and hard core obedience not just on the training field or in a trial, but IN the real world - heel off leash through a busy supermarket, through a basketball game, crowds of people on a bus, in an airplane, or to go through a restaurant filled with people and never even give a blink at the food on the tables at nose level. I have trained air scent Search and Rescue dogs, agility, pet therapy, AND herding). I have only dabbled in protection because I think that ethically it is going to be the doom of the GSD in our litigious society regardless of what the original intent of protection is. 

I am betting that you, sir, respectfully have not trained a service dog AND done the placement training with the dog and their disabled partner. Please correct me if I am wrong, too.
You appear to have no idea about what appropriate temperament is for that line of work. 

The beauty of the GSD is that he can do all of it. Albeit many bloodlines deliver differing temperament more suitable for those differing training desires. It would be unfortunate, if every GSD had the same temperament, hardness, aggression, etc. and could not function in these other amazing areas of expertise.. particularly pet therapy, service work, and the family pet.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I know of several service dogs that come from SchH lines and several people who are planning or already have service dogs from working lines.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Andy Maly Vah is my pups sire and a great ambassador to the breed, and a serious SchH dog. Retired K9 who went on to get therapy title among others.
Here is another example of a therapy dog that does SchH and whose owner has a disability:
http://prodogz.com/
ILuv2Track,
How can you generalize a dog that excels in SchH not to be good for therapy work? Just from the dog you have that you think woudl excel in SchH...because of her extreme prey drive?
Your Fritz daughter sounds like a dog that has issues. Do you really think SchH would be her niche?


> Originally Posted By: ILuv2Track I have one hard core, prey drive off the wall dog that is a menace to live with and a threat to all my other dogs. I won't have that again in my home, nor will I ask anyone else to live with that kind of temperament in the puppies I bring into this world. This dog needs to live in a sterile kennel environment completely controlled with limited or no interaction with other dogs. Some folks might enjoy that or feel that is appropriate, but I don't. She would have been the perfect SchH candidate, if that had been my interest and I had that sterile kennel environment. She has done nothing but break my heart and held my household in hostage. She is a Fritz Farbenspiel daughter and gorgeous. But nasty as they come with too much prey drive.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Too late to edit, but wanted to mention that Brinx is a very handsome boy!!


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

First of all, I didn't say that any dog that comes from SchH lines cannot do therapy work or service work. All of the dogs that I have trained and placed as service dogs have come from SchH titled parents or grandparents. Many world Siegers. 

What I said essentially, and maybe I didn't make this clear, is that a dog with huge prey drive and consequential high pain tolerance is not a good candidate for someone with a disability. 

Pet Therapy and service work for someone disabled are two different things and require different temperaments. 

In Pet Therapy, the dog is handled by the owner and visits others to provide comfort, therapy, etc. in nursing homes, hospitals and so on. This dog has a relationship of respect with the owner/handler. Yes, the dog must have excellent obedience skills for this. For pet therapy work the dog must be outgoing and solicit petting and relationships with others. A good handler can handle a well trained, high drive dog in those situations. 

Jane, I suspect you are a very good handler. Let me ask you, if your dog lived with someone with a disability, would your dog work for them without ever needing a correction? Or how about just a verbal correction? Does that work for your dog? Do you have to correct him often? When you do, how do you do it? Do you use a firm leash correction? Do you ever have to use a prong collar on your dog? I am willing to bet your dog has some pretty high pain tolerance and that you have gone through quite a bit to get him SchH titled. I have never seen anyone not have to use harsh correction to get their dog to OUT. Maybe I am just blind here. Do you really think that someone in a wheelchair could deliver the kind of correction it takes to make a dog OUT off the sleeve during training? 

Gosh, my boy's mother was a SchH2, VA5 in the US. The night before the Sieger show, they had to hang her to get her off the sleeve. Lets see someone with a mobility issue do that if their dog turns on in prey drive over something they see in the real world.

When you put a dog in the hands of someone who is disabled, they must be able to have the relationship with the dog that the dog respects and will perform for. They must be incredibly biddable. If the dog requires huge correction in order to behave or respect the handler because he has huge prey drive and huge pain tolerance, this can be extremely difficult for someone in a wheelchair, or mobility issues to live with and handle. A dog that does service work should NOT solicit relationships with others as a pet therapy dog would do. But, the dog must be social in that he doesn't growl at people, other dogs, or strange things. He must accept friendly petting, and any gesture by the uneducated public. But, both dogs need to have calm, secure personalities that do not easily flip into hard to handle prey drive when they see another animal or ball in the real world, i.e crossing the street from a park, in a children's store where some kid is bouncing a ball, or where they might see a running cat through a parking lot. Someone with a disability might not be able to stop a dog with that kind of drive. And a service dog is very likely to encounter a situation like that in every day life. A good pet therapy dog handler can their dog in that situation. But, someone disabled probably could not. And of couse, there are always exceptions to every rule.

So, you ask, why don't I train Goldens? For the same reason all of you love your GSDs. There are the exceptional disabled people out there that want nothing else, trust nothing else besides a GSD.

As for the Fritz daughter I described above, the prey drive is so over the top it is controllable in the situation I have here and live with. If she sees another pack member she thinks is ill or acts in anyway like prey, she is ready to kill it and has tried on 3 occasions. It is my opinion that she has a screw loose and is not long for this world. I will tell you that I had her evaluated by a German SchH judge that thought she was "goot" for SchH. That was not "my" evaluation, it was his. This dog is no different than a wolf hybrid. She doesn't belong in the wolf world, and she doesn't belong in a family environment. There is no place that she "fits". It is terribly unfortunate for her AND me and my other older dogs. And the more people I have evaluate her, they more they say this dog has instincutual, almost feral behavior and drive that cannot be controlled or trusted. It has been horrible heart break for me. HORRIBLE. And I will never intentionally breed a dog with this kind of prey drive in my lifetime. BTW, she was NOT my breeding. And, I have tried to work with her for 7 years. NOt a day goes by that she doesn't threaten another dog.


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks, Jane for the nice words about Brinx. And if I might say in his defense, he is about the most biddable dog I have ever trained. He is just like warm butter on bread. I don't think I will ever have to put a prong on this guy. But, in the sheep ring, he will head the sheep without batting an eye. The old time competitive sheep herders say he is national sheep herding material.

Thats about as perfect as it gets, IMHO. Too bad its almost impossible to find HGH trials here.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Maybe part of the issue is that most of the dogs being mentioned here are SHOW line dogs. This should not be used as any indication of how WORKING line dogs are trained and bred.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

ILuv2Track,
You are right I have never trained a therapy dog, so maybe that makes me unqualified to speak on the subject. In our SDA club one of our assistant training directors has been training obedience dogs for 45 years(he 70 plus), has had an obedience school for 35 years. Has two bouviers that are totally off the chain in protection work and both are certified therapy dogs and go to nursing homes every thurs, nite. He does use a prong on both dogs in training of obedience and protection because of their drive. But their nerve is such that they can settle down when taken off the field. I also bred to Andy Maly Vah and the reason was because he was a hard dog, former police dog, a PSA1 dog ,which really is closer to KNPV and Oh btw, he is also Therapy dog and has been used in nursing homes.
Will leave the topic right here, I still feel the dog you described has issues and would make a poor Sch or police dog because high drive has nothing to do with whether a dog can do therapy work. With the premise that you are articulating, we would not have "real high drive working line dogs" living in houses with family with very young children. Certainly, that would be dangerous with a "high prey working line dog", well guess what, there are thousands of working line dogs with high drive that live in homes with small children. But, my point was and is the dog you described is NOT a representative of a hard sch dog ....JMO. 
We agree to see things based on our perspective...OK...peace!


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## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

yes, Peace, Cliftonanderson. I hope you read my description of the difference between a therapy dog and a service animal for someone with disabilities. Those high drive dogs living in homes with children are handled by very strong handlers. People with disabilities are not usually physically strong handlers. 

And yes, the dog I have described would not be trusted in a home with small children. While she doesn't have any human aggression issues at this time, I wouldn't be surprised if a small child that ran sreaming or cried would turn her "prey drive" on and an ensuing attack might happen. She is an anomily. I am just repeating what the German SchH judge told me....argh. I should send her off to him!


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ILuv2TrackWhen I say "hard core SchH Dog" I speak of high enough prey drive, that the dog's pain tolerance sky rockets. A dog with pain tolerance to be a police dog, or highly rated SchH is not a dog for someone to handle that has a disability. In most cases, someone who needs a service dog cannot deliver what the dog needs to behave


Umm...OK. You are talking showlimne dogs and you're right, MOST of them are not hardcore Sch dogs. They're not my type of GSD BUT I admire them for what they are and can do. Just as I wish the freaking showline people that spread misinformation and generalizations about working lines would do. Just admire them for what they are and can do and admit they're not your type. 

That said, my working line dog is INSANE on the field, he requires a strong handler and is a GREAT Sch dog. BUT after that, we go home and he helps my 80 year old grandma pick things up she drops etc. listens to her request with no issues, then when he goes with us to take the other grandma out(both are in wheelchairs), he politely pulls her wheelchair and when stopped, sits beside it, a slight tug on the harness and he's up and ready to help again. 

I didn't get my dog for service work and raised him as a working dog, he hates cats, semi-tolerates other dogs and loves people. Exactly what I wanted in a dog, high drive, confident, unflappable, strong and solid. Other than the command to retrieve things for her which was trained with a clicker, the rest he just does on his own, due to his other training. A well rounded dog to say the least. 

BTW- I don't have kids BUT he loves kids of all shapes sizes and colors!!! 

Courtney


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ILuv2Track I wouldn't be surprised if a small child that ran sreaming or cried would turn her "prey drive" on and an ensuing attack might happen. She is an anomily. I am just repeating what the German SchH judge told me....argh. I should send her off to him!


 Yeah, like the judge would care for a weak nerved unstable dog


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