# stay calm outside when I go in a store...



## Drodes (Dec 26, 2015)

The title sounds alot worse than it really is.

On my days off, I like to go to starbucks, crack open my bible and enjoy a few cups of coffee while I read, study, surf the internet, etc. Since my boys have grown up and are acting alot better (more calm, obedient and less distracted) out in public, I've been taking them with me to sit and have coffee outside. I like taking them with me, going to the park to exercise and then going downtown to the shopping center or plaza for coffee..

the only downside though, is when I initially go in to get my coffee, or when I go to get them a cup of water, I have leashed them to the post and they start to go bananas. I know how I would work on this with them: I'd start by taking steps away from them, and toward the door; clicking and rewarding when they were being good and gradually move to the point of going inside... but does anyone have any other recommendations or suggestions for this? Maybe some tips for practicing it in a lighter populated area like home? Has anyone else taught their dog this and what process have you used? Just looking for some alternative ideas


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

The best way to lose your dogs. You never know what happens in a few seconds. They could bite some kid who hugs your dog, etc. Our town considers it animal abandonment and you'll get a ticket. I would never do this personally.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

the starbucks near my home has outdoor seating. I'd rather sit outside with my dogs than have to rush to the door to fend off an emergency.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Leavening your dogs unattended is a seriously "high risk venture!" Pretty much no way around that, that said ... the ability to do that is gonna depend on the dog and the environmental factors??? How close is traffic and what will your dog do if someone approaches and attempts to pet??? 

Most likely you can answer the first question but the second question ... not so much??? My particular (formerly H/A OS GSD) is apparently extremely handler dependent! If he is in an out sight "Place" and someone attempts to approach him ... he makes an independent decision and he will "Break Place" and "Walk Away!" That is just fine by me! I've had two "crap happens situations?? And one involved a toddler ... and under extremely controlled circumstances ... he provided not to be a fan of toddlers! I don't have kids, so I don't intentionally expose him to kids ... still crap happens??? 

And one day when at a clients with Rocky (I'm a PCA), I had Rocky out back in Place and unexpectedly Grandma showed up with a toddler! Well that was unexpected but Grandma has the kid ... well, Grandma fell asleep! I finished up with my client and I was first to notice the toddler was gone!!! I freaked and rushed to the back dog!!! I opened the door, expecting a scene of horror and found the toddler unharmed but ... no Rocky??? So first there was relive and then confusion ... where was Rocky??? I scanned around and found him 15 feet away! Most likely he saw the toddler approach and his default is "apparently" we don't bite people but where is dad??? No dad to be found so he made an independent decision to a non threat and ... walked away! On another occasion at our local quick market ... where he routinely goes in "Place" no leash it's just a command and it means "Stay here and don't move." As I was coming out of the store ... I saw someone approach him!! As I was preparing to scream at them ... I observed Rocky ... once again "Break Place" and step away from a stranger, yet again ... no Dad to be found??? And "Rocky I don't know you ... I'm outta here" he broke Place and stepped away! 

I did not train that particular behavior per se, but I did train him not to be "biting the crap out of people and stuff" when he is with me! But you know if Daddy is no where to be found??? Then it comes down to ... make good choices dog! Third occasion, a stranger told me where he was?? I came out of the store and Rocky was not where I left him?? A different stranger said he's to the right of the doors?? Apparently while I was out of site ... yet again someone approached him and yet again ... he walked away! Most likely not ideal "Place means Place" but I'm pretty grateful for his "apparently"default behavior to walk away ... when there is no "Daddy to found??" He gets no grief from me! 

And my Boxer Struddell yeah ... nope never 8 years and no out of site "Stays and or Place!" I actually had to theft proof her! She was a dog that would happy drive or walk of with uh anyone ... it's a Boxer thing. 

But back on point ... I get why you want to leash your dogs to an object to secure them?? But the fact that they are leashed ... is most likely the source of the problem??? A variation of "leash Barrier" reactivity?? Because the dogs can't move from this spot .... it causes stress??? If you can't trust them to "Place" then most likely you can't trust them when they are out of site??? 

I understand you are talking about minuets, if ... you train "Place" you can "Proof that under controlled conditions with distractions! Outside the confines of a Dog Park is ideal! And I suppose you could elicit the help of Dog Park strangers ... to see what your dogs would do if approached??? I'm gonna assume you don't have H/A dogs to even consider that of course! 

But ... if you secure to an object ... then you best sure your dogs cannot move that object! there is a Boxer tragedy behind that advise! IF you don't or can't currently trust your dogs to stay in place while leashed??? I suppose you could train that at home?? Lash them to whatever at home and get them used to being restrained by there leashes?? It's not something I've done but it makes sense of course if they are restrained ... it removes there ability to walk away. So that is more of a flight or fight situation, if the dog is restrained??? It's not a choice I would make.

At any rate "Place and Sit on the Dog" details can be found here. :
Fearful, Anxious or Flat Crazy "The Place CommanD - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

But understand ... that if you have your "eyes off your dog" in a public situation ... you are taking a risk!! Some dogs can handle the unexpected and some dogs cannot. If your dogs are out of site in public ... it is a high risk venture.


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## Drodes (Dec 26, 2015)

car2ner said:


> the starbucks near my home has outdoor seating. I'd rather sit outside with my dogs than have to rush to the door to fend off an emergency.


yes this is exactly what I would like to achieve.. Just enough time to run in and get a coffee and come back out to sit down.


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## Drodes (Dec 26, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Leavening your dogs unattended is a seriously "high risk venture!" Pretty much no way around that, that said ... the ability to do that is gonna depend on the dog and the environmental factors??? How close is traffic and what will your dog do if someone approaches and attempts to pet???
> 
> Most likely you can answer the first question but the second question ... not so much??? My particular (formerly H/A OS GSD) is apparently extremely handler dependent! If he is in an out sight "Place" and someone attempts to approach him ... he makes an independent decision and he will "Break Place" and "Walk Away!" That is just fine by me! I've had two "crap happens situations?? And one involved a toddler ... and under extremely controlled circumstances ... he provided not to be a fan of toddlers! I don't have kids, so I don't intentionally expose him to kids ... still crap happens???
> 
> ...


very useful... thank you so much. We've been working on staying around corners and me being out of sight, but that level of distraction is much lower than a morning outside of a starbucks. dont get me wrong, its not like it gets SUPER busy there, but if there was a wave of people, i'd like to trust my dog. needless to say, more training and consideration will be put into this. my gsd is really friendly too so it wouldnt take much encouraging for someone to take him... but my aussie is a little more reserved. so like i said, it's going to be under consideration for sure....

if anyone else wants to chime in and give their advice/ suggestions/ experience, please do!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

With Babs and only with Babs, I have left her unleashed outside of a Circle K, while I run in to buy a donut or hot dog for her. 

She is extremely well-trained, and I do this only in the middle of the night, out in the boonies, where there is a window, so I can watch the whole time, and if someone pulls up, I can go back outside with her. So it is basically an in-sight, out of sight down stay. 

The act of tying her, can in itself setup a situation where she is guarding, and cause a problem that none of us wants to happen. 

Actually, most places that have enough traffic for a starbucks have too much traffic to leave a pet unattended even long enough to go inside to purchase a cup of coffee. 

Sorry. I know that isn't the answer you wanted.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

I also wouldn't do it. I sat on the patio once where a boxer was tied up and it looked VERY uncomfortable. Kids were just running up and petting it and lots of people were too. It was way too risky.


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## Coleen (Sep 18, 2015)

Along with what everyone said, remember not everyone one likes dogs. What if someone who doesn't likes dogs decides to hit the dog? You could have a nice dog turn reactive because of that. I was walking my dog on the bike path when a a jogger was approaching, I stepped off the path into the grass area with my dog, put her in a sit so the jogger can pass. My dog didn't bark, lunge or anything, as he passed us he said let your dog near me and I will shoot it! All it would take is a jerk like that to see your dog outside without you! I just wouldn't risk it.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Leave the dog locked in the car till you have your coffee?

They do make locking cable ties for this purpose which at least means your dog is less likely to be stolen but does not protect them from other dogs...unwanted petting ect.

I somewhat think it depends on the culture of the town. But I am far too paranoid to take chances and even in our affluent dog friendly, super low crime towns I leave my dog locked in his aluminum crate if I am out of sight.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

If the weather is cool enough, I leave her in the car, order my coffee and take her out and enjoy the scenery. If it is too warm to leave her in the car, I just sit outside without coffee. Just as much fun. If they complain, I would order a coffee.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Training a dog to do an unrestrained, out of site Down/Stay in public and whether doing that is a good idea are two different things. I doubt anyone would say an out of sight "Down/Stay or Place " (similar but different) is a good idea??? If a dog is secured by a leash to a truly immovable object and gets approached by a stranger ... breaking command and stepping away ... is not an available option. 

If a dog can't handle "Stranger encroachment" in there face and they can't step away ... then it's flight or fight and if they can't "step away" and the stranger won't back off ... there is gonna be an issue??? Ironically enough ... I trusted my OS GSD, with his former people issues, under out of site "Place and Stay" (yes I use both) more than my People are the next best thing to baked bread, Boxer. She was a dog that would happily drive or walk off with anyone! 

All they'd have to do was call her or open a car door and it would be "see'ya later dad ... I found a new friend ... I did not know I had??? Ah well maybe I'll train my next Boxer in German??? I never did an out of site "down/stay" with her at the store, in public.

Course at home she excelled at the "On the Lawn" thing, once that command was given ... front edge of the lawn was as far as she'd go! Sorry ... Daddy said "On the Lawn" I can't go with you stranger. 

At any rate ... yes start at home out of sight stays up to three minuets for that and as for finding distractions in a safe manner ... outside the confines of your local Dog Park, is usually ideal.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Other tip, find a fellow dog walker coffee lover. One watches the dogs while the other goes in to order.


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## Drodes (Dec 26, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Leave the dog locked in the car till you have your coffee?
> 
> They do make locking cable ties for this purpose which at least means your dog is less likely to be stolen but does not protect them from other dogs...unwanted petting ect.
> 
> I somewhat think it depends on the culture of the town. But I am far too paranoid to take chances and even in our affluent dog friendly, super low crime towns I leave my dog locked in his aluminum crate if I am out of sight.


This is probably the most practical solution, at least for right now.... and I've done it a couple times... but I just worry about the heat of my jeep, even for 5 or so minutes, or the perception that it might have (window breaking is legal in WV if there is a dog in a hot vehicle).... which I'm totally all for. I'll park on the curb close by.... I guess I Segway to another question, any suggestions for separation anxiety in that situation?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

There is a Starbucks app where you can place and pay for mobile orders - ready when you arrive at the pick up counter, generally nearest the door. Quick in and out... not much time to go bananas.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Fodder said:


> There is a Starbucks app where you can place and pay for mobile orders - ready when you arrive at the pick up counter, generally nearest the door. Quick in and out... not much time to go bananas.


and if you are a regular they might get to like you and be allowed to meet you at the door with your order.


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## Drodes (Dec 26, 2015)

Yes I have the app but even turning and opening the door freaks them out... that's a brilliant idea but my problem starts even before then! lol I know this is minor but its a further part of our training I'd like to add


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

How do they do separately? Is one feeding off of the other? Do they have generalized separation anxiety under other circumstances?

I've had pole dogs for nearly 20yrs and have yet to have these sorts of problems.


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## Drodes (Dec 26, 2015)

Fodder said:


> How do they do separately? Is one feeding off of the other? Do they have generalized separation anxiety under other circumstances?
> 
> I've had pole dogs for nearly 20yrs and have yet to have these sorts of problems.


I haven't tried my Aussie by himself because I never have him and not Kai... but Kai does the same thing even without Berk. Berkley barks but doesn't jump around and freak out like Kai does.


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