# Brindle puppies



## spiritsmom

Just saw an ad on Craigslist (that will probably be flagged very soon) that was advertising 5 purebred GSD puppies, some of which are brindle:





































Here's the ad:

I have 5 purebreed german shepherd puppies. These puppies do not have papers two males are brindle and one male is black with a white spot on his chest and he has brindle markings on his legs. The two females are brindle as well. These puppies could be anywhere from 65 to 120 pounds. I was only able to post four pictures. The top two pictures are boys and the bottom two are females. If interested please contact at (937) 456-XXXX and please no calls after 9:00 P.M. Those of you that keep flagging me these are not mutts and I have both parents on premisses and This was a conrolled breeding my female did not go outside without me by her side.


Sounds like the guy has had people tell him they aren't purebred. I find it interesting - possibly some Dutch Shepherd snuck in there (although they really are not common here). To me they don't look completely GSD, but it could be the coloring throwing me off.


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## Emoore

Hm... Brindle German Shepherd puppies, no papers. Either his dog carries a rare recessive gene that is a throwback from 100 years ago, or there's a Boxer, mastiff, or Dutch Shepherd in the woodshed.


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## PaddyD

Or a pit bull


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## NancyJ

Tell him that he should do DNA on his dogs. If they are purebred they would be worth a lot more than he can get on Craigslist. Clearly they are not.


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## Chris Wild

When the brindle gene existed in GSDs it was a dominant color, even over sable, not recessive. So IF it still existed in GSDs, we'd see a lot of it as every dog carrying it would be brindle. Dominant traits can't remain hidden.

So, either it is a spontaneous mutation of some sort or the dogs are mixed. Clearly the most likely scenario, particularly for unpapered dogs on Craigslist, is the later.


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## Vinnie

Purebred?  Ok.

Sure are little cuties though.


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## 1sttimeforgsd

They are very cute!


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## BlackPuppy

Is this on the Cincinnati Craigslist? Nevermind. I see it's gone. It was on Dayton, I think. I saw somebody comment :

"You aren't getting flagged because someone thinks you're re-homing mutts. You're being flagged because you are a breeder. When you posted it, did you not see the big yellow highlighted part that said "no pet sales or breeding"? Stating that it was a controlled breeding means you are NOT supposed to list them here. "

There sure are a lot of people looking for GSD puppies.


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## spiritsmom

No the Dayton one - they are in Eaton (Preble County). I checked this morning and it was flagged and removed but I saved the guy's contact info.


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## BlackPuppy

Boy, they sure are cute. I wonder what they really are. Sometimes a GSD with DS in it looks a lot like a GSD.


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## robinhuerta

I will never say ...**never**..when it comes to the genetic possibilities of any breed, especially this one.
I do know that I saw *Panda markings* on a litter of pure bred GSD puppies....over 20+ years ago...before...all of the recent years hype about them..
_Genetics simply fascinate me....._


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## NancyJ

No - I still swear my male has remnants of a wire coat. It is the harshest wiry coat I have ever seen on a GSD

But if it were such a thing (a brindle GSD) it would be worth getting tested to be sure.....and knowing how there can be two dads in a litter......and that Dutchies are brindle.....


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## KZoppa

obviously they're cute but i really dont buy the PB angle. Something snuck in and got his girl.


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## Emoore

robinhuerta said:


> I will never say ...**never**..when it comes to the genetic possibilities of any breed,


Never say never, but in the case of unpapered Craigslist puppies, I think Occam's razor applies here-- "The simplest explanation is usually the correct one."


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## robinhuerta

Emoore...I agree that the "possibilities & circumstances" usually speak for themselves....
But...still.....*_never say never*...LOL!_


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## HCerda

I have a 4 year old purebred papered Brindle German Shepard. He is absolutely beautiful. I really want to breed him so I can have another brindle when my boy dies. But finding him a mate has proved to be a long 4 year task, and still mate less.... Any help would be great!


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## HCerda

I have a 4 year old purebred papered Brindle German Shepard. He is absolutely beautiful. I really want to breed him so I can have another brindle when my boy dies. But finding him a mate has proved to be a long 4 year task, and still mate less.... Any help would be great!


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## carmspack

HCerda I sure would like to see some more pictures and look at a pedigree of the brindle dog , something that I have been looking --


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## Catu

Perhaps German Shepards come in brindle... 

Personally, I don't put much weight in the expertise of someone who either owns another breed (...!) or doesn't even know how to spell the breed of his/her own dog.


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## mehpenn

We had something similar posted on CL for our area. The title was "BRINDLE GERMAN SHEPHERDS" , then the ad said something like "RARE BRINDLE GERMAN SHEPHERDS. Mom is classic black and tan, Dad is a RARE BRINDLE GERMAN SHEPHERD." and it showed pics of both parents, and sure enough the dad was brindle.. but clearly NOT a GSD. Looked like a Dutch Shepherd to me. Their "rehoming fee" was $800 because they "want to make sure you're not just wanting a RARE dog, and really are interested in providing a good home for an awesome puppy."
* sigh*


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## HCerda

Excuse any typo, I shattered my iPhone and proper letters don't always work lol
But apparently SOME are quick to write dumb **** based on a typo, hmmmm
And per request pics have been added


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## Shade

carmspack said:


> HCerda I sure would like to see some more pictures and look at a pedigree of the brindle dog , something that I have been looking --


I agree I'd love to see a pedigree

I love his coat, very nice markings.


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## Stevenzachsmom

Beautiful dog.


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## nitemares

OMG, He's Gorgeous!! :wub: Would love to see his pedigree @HCerda


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## Mary Jane

Chris Wild said:


> When the brindle gene existed in GSDs it was a dominant color, even over sable, not recessive. .....


So it's possible that HCerda's dog is a spontaneous mutant to brindle. It could have arisen as a mutation in the egg or sperm of one of the parents. The parent would not be brindle, but the progeny could express the dominant brindle trait from one parent. 

MJ


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## carmspack

where is everyone seeing pictures of this dog?

as my geneticist friend has pointed out so many times -- a gene is never lost -- it gets buried ---


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## HCerda

*Gracen*

Thank you! I think he's a very handsome boy, love love love his markings. I added some more pictures of him. I don't want to breed him to make money. My husband and myself just want to end up with a male pup with his same markings. He was a birthday gift from my husband and has been the best dog I've ever had.


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## Shade

carmspack said:


> where is everyone seeing pictures of this dog?
> 
> as my geneticist friend has pointed out so many times -- a gene is never lost -- it gets buried ---


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/185561-hcerda-albums11321-love-my-boy-gracen.html


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## Lauri & The Gang

carmspack said:


> where is everyone seeing pictures of this dog?
> 
> as my geneticist friend has pointed out so many times -- a gene is never lost -- it gets buried ---



Their photo album here on the board:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/members/185561-hcerda-albums11321-love-my-boy-gracen.html


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## carmspack

do the genetics on the dog -- would be awesome


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## TAR HEEL MOM

Oh my goodness. Now that is really a gorgeous dog. I love brindled dogs. We see a lot in the shelter that are mixes of pits and plotts and boxers. But never I have seen a GSD that looks like that. I sure hope you are able to find a mate for him.


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## HCerda

*Re:Tar Heel Mom*

Thank you! I'm always stopped when I have him out with me. Always the same question,"What is he?"..lol I have only seen one other GSD with same brindle coat, and unfortunately it was another male. The vet said to fix him at 6years old. He's 4 1/2 now, so the clock is ticking.


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## martemchik

Do you mind posting a pedigree? AKC registration? SV registration?

I hate to be skeptical, and challenge a person that clearly knows their dog, but I see some Belgian in there. It's very possible to have a Belgian Shepherd/GSD mix that looks a lot like this.


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## gsdsar

Aw I wanna see him. But for some reason when I click on the link thru my phone it does not work. 


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## nitemares

ever thought of genetic testing?? would love to see this dogs color genetics

VetGen - Veterinary Genetic Services


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## mehpenn

HCerda, I just looked at the pics of your dog.. and wow, he is gorgeous! Can you PM me his pedigree?


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## onyx'girl

I would like to see it too. He is truly gorgeous! If you want a pup from his lines, why haven't you gone back to his breeder?


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## mehpenn

The thing about HCerda's dog that stands out to me and makes him so striking, is in the profile picture, it almost looks like he's got a blanket, not like the Dutch Shepherd. I'm wondering if he'd be classified as a sable on his registration, because of his coat pattern? Which makes me wonder how many others are out there, that could be classified as sable, when maybe they're not. That's my conspiracy theory mind at work there... LOL. 
Either way, I love his pattern, it's very striking and unique. He's a really pretty dog.


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## mehpenn

Unfortunately the fact that HCerda has claimed something we're all very interested in, and then stopped responding, makes you wonder the legitimacy of the claim. =(


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## Liesje

The problem with the color/pattern on registration is that you put whatever you want, at least for AKC. They don't check it based on the genetics of the pedigree. People have accidentally put bi-color for black and tan or vice versa, even bi-color for a bleed through solid black. It doesn't really matter if it says sable or brindle or rainbow unicorn. We'd need the actual pedigree to look at the parents and decide, genetically.


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## LaRen616

mehpenn said:


> Unfortunately the fact that HCerda has claimed something we're all very interested in, and then stopped responding, makes you wonder the legitimacy of the claim. =(


It's only been a day, they are probably busy, we all have lives.


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## HCerda

*Hmmmm....*

Really?! That's funny you have nothing better to do than talk trash. I'm a mother of 7, wife to an active duty military member, work,ect ect.... I have other things to do besides sit and refresh to see if there is some new post. And quite honestly I only found this site by accident. I'm not on here to do anything other than learn more to benefit my dog. I didn't get him to make money off what he is or anything like that. I don't care why he "looks" the way he does. All I care about was finding out what I could do to help ensure I would have best chance to end up with another male pup with his same coat / markings so when he dies Ill still have his boy. The more I know, the easier to know what I'm looking for in finding another GSD for his mate and our 3rd family pet.


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## RocketDog

There is a wealth of information and some very reputable people on this board who are highly qualified to help you. In your first post, you said you had papers for him, so that would be very helpful for them and the starting place if you could post his pedigree. Most people who have that, post it when they're looking for help such as you are.


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## volcano

I wouldnt even trust a black and tan to be a gsd without papers. It doesnt matter after they say no papers. If it was that easy then people would add back some old school mutts to help the breeds genes.


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## HCerda

How was I supposed to know that lol 
He was referred to as brindle by breeder and our vet. I assumed it was because of his color. All I initially wanted to know was when getting him a mate are there things that could help make sure at least one pup would look like him. But now that I've learned more I'm curious as to where he comes from so to speak. But it's my own curiosity, not going to change me still getting him fixed soon as I get my pup that'll take his spot as our family pet when our boy passes away.


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## HCerda

Mom and dad check out as far as papered. Why would he not when he's papered too I guess would be my next question...


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## RocketDog

I think people who are versed in pedigrees are interested in the genetics he has, not necessarily to prove he's not purebred. They will likely recognize someone somewhere and 1) can steer you to a female with the best chance of reproducing that gene and 2) possibly opening up the knowledge of where that color gene is buried.


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## Anubis_Star

Papers can EASILY be faked. As well, there are many "hidden" pedigrees behind german shepherds, especially in the sport dog world. Mainly mixing in malinois to increase drive while still producing pups that look enough like a german shepherd, or dutch shepherd which would be brindle. (A club member just got a male pup 3 weeks older than berlin but half his size. Just due to his large ears, snippy head, lack of stop above his muzzle, and fine features, I would put money in it that there is a malinois somewhere in his recent pedigree)

It's simple, I'll take purebred male A and put his AKC number down on the litter registration papers. And then I'll take male B and breed him to the female, and claim that male A is obviously the father. And who will ever know? Especially since as pointed out brindle is a dominant trait, at least one of the parents should of been brindle as well.

Not saying it cant happen. As someone else pointed out, never say never. But because of the genetic traits of the coloration, and because I know that there are many shepherds mixed more and more with mal and dutchy, I find it more likely that's the case here. Doesnt change who your boy is or your love for him

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## mehpenn

No one is talking trash. We're trying to learn more about your dog, and how you got so lucky. You simply stated something, and because we're interested, we asked for documentation to review.. not to prove you wrong, not to call you out, but so we can dissect and look for the hidden gem. 
You have to understand, lots and lots and lots of false claims are made here.. and when asked for additional information, they tend to act the same way you have (which you've probably not done intentionally). They get defensive, they purposely ignore requests for information, and then they stop responding. 

This a subject that some of us are very interested in. Myself for example, would like to understand how (or why) brindle being a dominate trait, we don't see it any more... especially in older lines. I understand the whole "it's not a fad" or "it's not acceptable in the breed standard" so people just stop breeding for it but you'd think it'd pop up here or there on occasion... like white GSD's, or the livers, or the dogs with reverse masks. 

So, if you're 10000% sure he's a product of the parents his papers claim him to be of, let someone here have a look at his pedigree and see if they can trace it back to a brindle dog and then you'll know what lines to look for when searching for a mate for your beautiful boy.


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## martemchik

HCerda said:


> Mom and dad check out as far as papered. Why would he not when he's papered too I guess would be my next question...


Why won't you write what their names are then? Or AKC registration numbers? No one can do anything with that information except conduct research...


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## nitemares

what about pencil toes and tar heels? would they be considering brindling of some sort? can't seem to find any genetic information about that and why do some dogs have them and why some don't. My Sable dog has it, and also my new b/t (possibly bi color) has it as well.


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## lhczth

People are just curious about the pedigree. That is normal when something that isn't supposed to exist shows up in a litter. Please post the pedigree.


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## carmspack

see the spirit of discussion in the new brindle thread.

I am seriously interested from an academic , research point of view .

What information can you provide - sire , dam , littermates ? Colours at least --


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## Lauri & The Gang

For those that can't see the pictures - here's one:


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## mehpenn

Lauri & The Gang said:


> For those that can't see the pictures - here's one:


Is this another pic of HCerda's dog? 
So pretty! :wub:


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## HCerda

Yes, that's my boy. Thank you! He really is a handsome fella. And loves to cuddle up with our kiddos


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## HCerda

We've been restationed by the ARMY to south east Texas. Soon as I find the box with all our docs I'll gladly give all info I have. I wasn't aware of his rare coloring until now, so please excuse me for misunderstanding. I would love to learn more about him and his bloodline. Any and all who want to help, Thank you, very very much!


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## martemchik

HCerda said:


> We've been restationed by the ARMY to south east Texas. Soon as I find the box with all our docs I'll gladly give all info I have. I wasn't aware of his rare coloring until now, so please excuse me for misunderstanding. I would love to learn more about him and his bloodline. Any and all who want to help, Thank you, very very much!


If you know your dog's registered name its very simple to go to the akc.org website and find him and at minimum his sire and dam. The sire and dam would probably allow you (or us) to make some connections either through people knowing those two dogs or pedigree database.


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## HCerda

*The story behind getting our pup*

We are a military family so we are no where near his "breeder". But after meeting the man I would never touch another dog from him. My babe was in such poor health when we got him he was in "doggy ICU" starting the night we picked him up for a week. I have done my best to have him prosecuted for neglect / animal cruelty ect, but unfortunately in Indianapolis there more important things going on and cops basically told us all we could do was civil court proceedings. Which truly surprised me. I figured more knowledge I could have about his breed, the better life he'll have. I don't want to go through the same thing getting another pup, regardless of breed. This "brreder" is in Mcdairyville, IN. Not sure if I'm spelling it correctly. Our boy was listed as Black and Tan, so we assumed he was going to look like a traditional German Sheperd. But once my husband got there and saw the number of GS he had for breeding and all that, he didn't care what he looked like he wasn't going to leave him there. Our poor little baby had worms so bad, they were eating through his organs and up into his lungs. At least according to the vet. It has taken us 4 years and countless dollars to get him healthy. He is so special to me. And the best dog! If there is anything I can do to find the right breeder let me know. To ensure some monster won't profit again off his horrible mistreatment of his animals. I thought because all his dogs are papered and such he would be legit. I didn't know papers could be fake either. I am just sick to my stomach. I truly hope his are not, it's bad enough the "breeder" made money off a pup that almost died due to lack of proper care. Is there a way I can check a breeder out; like parents do when finding a daycare. My other question is, he sent us the AKC registration, we gave him his name I do believe and sent them in; is that how the "breeder" should have done that?


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## martemchik

You should've received a "litter registration number" from the breeder and probably some paperwork that you can send in or go online with the registration number and do it all online. That registration number shows the AKC the breeder registered the litter with the AKC, and that your dog is out of sire X and dam Y. If you sent in that paperwork (I believe its like one piece of paper with most of the information already preprinted on it), you should've received a huge packet of information from the AKC which would've included a 3 or 5 generation pedigree (depending on what you paid for) for your dog and also an official registration card/number for your dog. I'm sure you're busy...but its not the easiest envelope to forget. The pedigree is also a really pretty piece of paper with a nice gold seal on it.

If you never got that...you probably never sent in the registration. At this point, if you never did it, its probably too late to do it.


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## HCerda

Well I'm comforted to know that part is good lol
I think just the 3 is what we have. Not 100% sure, but I don't recall paying extra for the 5. I'll get to diggin and hope to find what we got ASAP! And again, thank you all for the info.


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## Anubis_Star

HCerda said:


> We are a military family so we are no where near his "breeder". But after meeting the man I would never touch another dog from him. My babe was in such poor health when we got him he was in "doggy ICU" starting the night we picked him up for a week. I have done my best to have him prosecuted for neglect / animal cruelty ect, but unfortunately in Indianapolis there more important things going on and cops basically told us all we could do was civil court proceedings. Which truly surprised me. I figured more knowledge I could have about his breed, the better life he'll have. I don't want to go through the same thing getting another pup, regardless of breed. This "brreder" is in Mcdairyville, IN. Not sure if I'm spelling it correctly. Our boy was listed as Black and Tan, so we assumed he was going to look like a traditional German Sheperd. But once my husband got there and saw the number of GS he had for breeding and all that, he didn't care what he looked like he wasn't going to leave him there. Our poor little baby had worms so bad, they were eating through his organs and up into his lungs. At least according to the vet. It has taken us 4 years and countless dollars to get him healthy. He is so special to me. And the best dog! If there is anything I can do to find the right breeder let me know. To ensure some monster won't profit again off his horrible mistreatment of his animals. I thought because all his dogs are papered and such he would be legit. I didn't know papers could be fake either. I am just sick to my stomach. I truly hope his are not, it's bad enough the "breeder" made money off a pup that almost died due to lack of proper care. Is there a way I can check a breeder out; like parents do when finding a daycare. My other question is, he sent us the AKC registration, we gave him his name I do believe and sent them in; is that how the "breeder" should have done that?


This makes me more inclined to believe that registration papers were falsified and there's a brindled breed somewhere in the real pedigree

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## nitemares

I spoke to HCerda over pm and he was really interested to know that he could do genetic testing. 
If he did do that, i'd place my bet on purebred, i soooo want it to be one. LOL he looks like one though,i honestly don't even see a hint of another breed in there not even a dutchie.
plz plz let it be a true brindle :wub:


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Another picture...

How does the genetic testing work, exactly? Are there links to places that do it?


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## Anubis_Star

Genetic testing is a waste of money. Even with registered purebreds it often registered other breeds. And universities that had controlled colonies of mixed dogs for research purposes, that could trace the exact lineage back for decades, had their mixed dogs come up very random at times.

Add to it that the german shepherd is still a relatively "newer", just a little over 100 years. So markers could still be off.

I think when you throw in the fact that the OP wants to breed to a b*tch only in hopes of getting a certain color, yet wants the pup to replace his beloved dog - THAT is a setup for failure and heartbreak when the pup's temperament is not the same.

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## nitemares

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Another picture...
> 
> How does the genetic testing work, exactly? Are there links to places that do it?


VetGen - Veterinary Genetic Services


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## martemchik

nitemares said:


> I spoke to HCerda over pm and he was really interested to know that he could do genetic testing.
> If he did do that, i'd place my bet on purebred, i soooo want it to be one. LOL he looks like one though,i honestly don't even see a hint of another breed in there not even a dutchie.
> plz plz let it be a true brindle :wub:


The brindle isn't a hint of another breed? I see some other signs as well but I'm waiting on a pedigree.

We also need to see what the parents were in order to have a better understanding of what kind of genes the dog might be currently carrying. That way you'd have some hint of what to breed it to in order to increase the chances of having another dog come out like this.


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## mehpenn

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Another picture...
> 
> How does the genetic testing work, exactly? Are there links to places that do it?


Regardless of what his pedigree may or may not show... he's still a gorgeous dog. :wub:

My husband is a huge fan of the brindle pattern. He'd be gushing all over this boy.


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## nitemares

martemchik said:


> The brindle isn't a hint of another breed? I see some other signs as well but I'm waiting on a pedigree.
> 
> We also need to see what the parents were in order to have a better understanding of what kind of genes the dog might be currently carrying. That way you'd have some hint of what to breed it to in order to increase the chances of having another dog come out like this.


Other than Brindle i mean, it's wishful thinking


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## selzer

He looks like a GSD. I have seen a lot of GSDs that look less like GSDs than this dog, if we aren't looking at the color. 

Can they do DNA testing to verify his parentage? I suppose, unless his parents have been DNA'd and their parents, and so forth, there really is no way to know for sure that another breed wasn't back there somewhere. I wouldn't trust a DNA test to determine breed, you are likely to come up with Cocker Spaniel, Neopolitin Mastiff, and Yorkshire Terrier.


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## geokon_2000

I know this is an older thread, but there is a girl on the German shepherd dog community page that INSISTS her brindle dog is a PURE GSD. and she gets all pissed off at anybody who says, "beautiful Dutchie!!" She assumes that they are attacking her....UGH just really frustrating. I'd love to ask her to see the pedigree. But I'm one of the ones who said, "beautiful Dutchie! Rescue or purchased from a breeder?"


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## geokon_2000

here's a link to the page. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152715376206029&set=gm.455550194549758&type=1&theater


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