# Admitting you have a problem is the first step



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I ruined my dog. There I said it. 
So much of Shadows first couple of years was spent fighting for her life that I gave no thought to beyond that. Why train a dog that was probably not going to survive? It seemed like every week was a new catastrophe. One health issue after another. 
I woke up one morning and thought "Ok, looks like I'm keeping her. What now?" Lol.

My dog is a spoiled rotten, TV addicted, back talking, command ignoring, bed hogging, chicken mooching little witch. And I caused all of it!
She is the least trained dog I have ever owned. She gets away with things no other dog ever has in my house. And I did 100% of this. 
Don't tell anyone, but I kind of like it! (Except the reading part. She follows the text on the TV screen. It's creepy. I don't like that part.)

I own this. Not a trainer, or a vet, or the dog. 
I. Did. This. 

Could I fix it? Probably. Am I gonna? Probably not. Have I learned from my mistakes? Doubtful.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

My service dog, RIP, was a food begging, bed hogging, pushy jerk in the house. He was nearly perfect in harness. I could have fixed all that stuff but it was who he was and I loved him for himself. 

Valor jumps up on me. I'm totally ok with that. It's fun for both of us. Terrible behavior? Yes it is. Do I care? Nope! My dog. My rules.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Personal responsibility?
How refreshing ....


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

@David Winners 
Most of my dogs have had bad habits. I have said before that I actively encourage idiocy. I allow things I shouldn't, but they are my dogs. 
I have NEVER put this little effort into training though, lol. I was religious about daily sessions. Obedience was always my thing. 
Shadow was absolutely a challenge, but at some point I just decided I didn't care. 

@WNGD I thought you would like that!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

She reads the screen! It's creepy!


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I'm not alone! Our dogs are living sentient beings, not robots. If you want a robot...









Joy For All - Golden Pup Companion inc Bandanna interactive plush pet : Amazon.com.au: Video Games


Joy For All - Golden Pup Companion inc Bandanna interactive plush pet : Amazon.com.au: Video Games



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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I‘ve made mistakes with every dog, different ones each time. I’ve also done things very well. In the end, we train and shape our dogs to behave the ways we want them to behave in circumstances that are important to us. So the things that are mandatory for one of us are discretionary for another. As a group we tend to have the same areas of agreements. Our dogs should not use us as teething rings. They should not be aggressive toward us or family members. They should get exercise. House manners are more individualized.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I’m a perfect trainer and all my dogs are perfect. They haven’t done thousands of dollars in damage to my stuff. I don’t have scars from them. They don’t spin when its dinner time. They don’t jump all over me. They don’t complain at night when I try to sleep without the air conditioner. They don’t escape kennels and run to training fields. I’ve never had them attack another dog. I’ve never had accidents in the house. I’ve never been told to adjust my handling or training methods. I also have beach front property in Nevada for sale.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@Bearshandler sounds just like myself and my dogs


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Since her bout with vestibular disease in June, my almost-14 year old has taken to pooping on the floor or her bed during the night. It doesn't happen every night, but it's fairly frequent.

Non-dog people thinks that's terrible, and say 'time to put her down!'

Yeah, riiight! She still loves to chase squirrels in the back yard, and when we go to the military base for off-leash walks, she whines in anticipation the whole way there. You should see her eyes light up when I bring out the balls to play 'fetch' with her and my younger dog...

A few minute's cleanup in the morning is worth the hassle! Hey, do we put elderly humans down once THEY become incontinent?


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

Some stuff I let slide, other stuff I’m not quite consistent and I let him go berserk at the door until I open it. After 9 yrs of living with me he has figured out what he can get away with and when and when to be good and I make no apologies for any of it.

My boy is the only dog that I put so much effort in the training so at this stage for me it’s not so much that I don’t care but that it just doesn’t matter any more. He’s basically a good boy and I’m basically a good girl and we are well mannered outside the home.

Confession: I’m pretty positive that my genetic based nerves are way worse then his when it comes to other dogs so His da was probably /pretty sure nurture based so that was on me. Still is.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I’ve never related so much to a post, lol. 

Scarlet is a feisty, enthusiastic and high-spirited girl. I think that really means that she’s bouncy and noisy. Super noisy (but not barky). Sort of like if someone crossed a Siberian Husky with a Basenji. When I tell my hard core obedience friends that I don’t want to “dampen her enthusiasm” for the show ring, they look at me with pity, lol.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I wrote this partly as a warning. 
I don't work pups. Because I don't believe it's healthy, mentally, but also because I like to see the personality that develops.
It's also an admission. I have no one to blame but me.
There is a vast difference between David's adventure training with Valor and taking a pup out for drills.
To some extent I think that it's those rigid obedience sessions that create the teenage rebellion phases 
But more importantly, I wrote it as an admission. Dogs learn what they live. They are mirrors of our truest selves. They reflect back at use all of the things we hide so well. 
When our dogs screw up, we cannot blame anyone but ourselves. 
The breeder created a lump of clay. We molded it. The trainer created a cut, we could have smoothed it but we didn't. 
It's a rare dog that is so badly wired it cannot be handled. 
Shadow could have been more. She could have been less. But what she is is all on me. 
I did this.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Haha, I’m both excited and terrified to get my new puppy. The possibilities!


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## MyWifeIsBoss (Apr 27, 2020)

Another lovely post. So funny 😂
We've given up on having the perfect pup and focused on keeping him alive until 2.. yesterday I dropped that to 1 and overnight, it's 18 months. 😂

David, do you just allow the jumping on you but correct it on other people? We also love our pup jumping up


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

This thread makes me feel so much better. I let my dog do things I know others would object to, but I don’t care.

My dog solicits attention while I’m working. I pet him anyway knowing it encourages him to demand attention...which he does. I don’t care.

I let him jump on me when excited. I don’t care. For the record, he doesn’t jump on others.

I let him play and roughhouse in the house...including mouthing me. I don’t care.

But he behaves on important things that matter to me. He’s house-trained, crate-trained, knows and follows come, sit, down, place, heel, and no. Has no aggression to family and friends. Not a nuisance barker. Settles in the house. Great in the car. Everything else is gravy.

I guess I raised a dog that “I” can live with.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

MyWifeIsBoss said:


> Another lovely post. So funny 😂
> We've given up on having the perfect pup and focused on keeping him alive until 2.. yesterday I dropped that to 1 and overnight, it's 18 months. 😂
> 
> David, do you just allow the jumping on you but correct it on other people? We also love our pup jumping up


I correct him for jumping on others or mouthing others. We play rough a lot and he understands the rules. I think it also adds to me being the funnest guy ever in his opinion.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Just to show we do exercise. Even on leash. Short leash and on the road because it's hunting season. Lol.







Anytime I'm free I take my rotten dog out for a hike. Usually we head into the woods but this time of year I feel better on the roads. Right after I took this we found a couple of spent rounds and a feather explosion, so the road is no guarantee either. It's all crown land. Great fun to camp and hike. 
Even on leash we manage to exercise, but it takes work on my part. If she was bored and under exercised and destroying my stuff that would be on me as well. 
@David Winners , I allow jumping and biting. I can't think when last one of my dogs tried it on anyone else. Shadow bites my feet when I have shoes on, it's a game. She's never tried to bite my bare feet.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

You all are making me feel so much better.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> You all are making me feel so much better.


You could make me feel better with puppy pics!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> I’m a perfect trainer and all my dogs are perfect. They haven’t done thousands of dollars in damage to my stuff. I don’t have scars from them. They don’t spin when its dinner time. They don’t jump all over me. They don’t complain at night when I try to sleep without the air conditioner. They don’t escape kennels and run to training fields. I’ve never had them attack another dog. I’ve never had accidents in the house. I’ve never been told to adjust my handling or training methods. I also have beach front property in Nevada for sale.


What is wrong with spinning for excitement at dinner?


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> You could make me feel better with puppy pics!


I just texted her breeder a few minutes ago and said “I want my puppy!”. All I got was a thumbs up, lol. She’s out of state till Monday, so I have to wait. I have a dog show about 30 minutes from my house next Friday. I'm hoping I can convince her to bring her to me at the show, instead of me driving the 2 plus hours to her house. 

Here’s a photo of mom:


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

LuvShepherds said:


> What is wrong with spinning for excitement at dinner?


Scarlet’s in trouble then, lol


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> You all are making me feel so much better.


Your dog wins ribbons. That means she can do a lot of things some of ours can’t.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

1 y/o black.
2 y/o sable.

Close enough, anyway.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> Scarlet’s in trouble then, lol


My girl is too! How did I forget you are getting a puppy? I must be so envious I blocked it out.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

LuvShepherds said:


> Your dog wins ribbons. That means she can do a lot of things some of ours can’t.


She’s pretty good at ignoring chaos, that’s for sure. Also good at running, lol. In a circle.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> What is wrong with spinning for excitement at dinner?


Shadow is never that excited for food, I wish she would spin! Spinning would be amazing! I would settle for a tail wag. 

Shadow gets more excited about flea treatment then food. She finds the box extremely interesting.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

As long as Scarlet stays far enough back not to knock the food bowl out of my hand, I’m happy.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> As long as Scarlet stays far enough back not to knock the food bowl out of my hand, I’m happy.


Hahaha. Bud sent full dish of food AND water flying all over the kitchen one night! Sabi was very irritated that dinner was delayed for cleanup.
Shadow hides in my room while I mix her food. It upsets her that I make her finish her food before she can have a toothbrush,


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Been there. Done that. Food flying everywhere. I yelled at her. Now she dances just out of reach. She seriously is the most food motivated dog I have ever had, in over 40 years of having dogs. A curse and a blessing.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I’ve got a spinner for food, too. I know I should wait until he is calm. Instead, I just ask for a sit. LOL

But I don’t care...I’ve got a clear-eyed, beautiful, happy dog.


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## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> Shadow is never that excited for food, I wish she would spin! Spinning would be amazing! I would settle for a tail wag.
> 
> Shadow gets more excited about flea treatment then food. She finds the box extremely interesting.


I don’t get the spins, but my God, I get the intensity. You’d think I never feed them!


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Shadow is never that excited for food, I wish she would spin! Spinning would be amazing! I would settle for a tail wag.
> 
> Shadow gets more excited about flea treatment then food. She finds the box extremely interesting.


Now I know your dog is different. Mine hide from flea treatment.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> What is wrong with spinning for excitement at dinner?


Some people hate it and find it annoying, it also translates to other things like waiting at a door.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Hahaha. Bud sent full dish of food AND water flying all over the kitchen one night! Sabi was very irritated that dinner was delayed for cleanup.
> Shadow hides in my room while I mix her food. It upsets her that I make her finish her food before she can have a toothbrush,


The last time I got a bowl knocked out of my hands I just sat it down and left. They cleaned their own mess.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> Some people hate it and find it annoying, it also translates to other things like waiting at a door.


I had a spinner who did it for hours at a time out of anxiety. I agree, that kind of spinning is a behavior problem. He was a rescued dog with many challenges. My girl spins once for her meal, then sits patiently until I give it to her. She doesn’t do it anywhere else. She is very food motivated.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Shadow is never that excited for food, I wish she would spin! Spinning would be amazing! I would settle for a tail wag.
> 
> Shadow gets more excited about flea treatment then food. She finds the box extremely interesting.


Bear gets excited for my food but not his. I definitely have learned to deal with some things I never expected to with him. I assumed poor eaters were super rare and I’d never see it. Dead wrong. He has plenty of food drive, he just doesn’t value kibble.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> I had a spinner who did it for hours at a time out of anxiety. I agree, that kind of spinning is a behavior problem. He was a rescued dog with many challenges. My girl spins once for her meal, then sits patiently until I give it to her. She doesn’t do it anywhere else. She is very food motivated.


He alternates between sits and spins when we come home. It’s more learned than anything else.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Yes, it’s learned but it also relieves tension.


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## OldGreg (May 18, 2020)

I secretly love it when Cannoli back talks me. She is a stubborn puppy that knows only dad minds if she is on the bed hahaha 

I love this post! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J727A using Tapatalk


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Not chicken mooching? Oh no, never that! 😂


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> Now I know your dog is different. Mine hide from flea treatment.


But it's in a box! In little crinkly bubbles! So it's very exciting. 



LuvShepherds said:


> I had a spinner who did it for hours at a time out of anxiety. I agree, that kind of spinning is a behavior problem. He was a rescued dog with many challenges. My girl spins once for her meal, then sits patiently until I give it to her. She doesn’t do it anywhere else. She is very food motivated.


One of Buds relatives, I think, was a spinner. Infuriated my boss. So I turned it into a trick. Put a cue to start and stop, solved the whole issue. Lol. Bossman was very annoyed that I taught the dog tricks. 


Bearshandler said:


> Bear gets excited for my food but not his. I definitely have learned to deal with some things I never expected to with him. I assumed poor eaters were super rare and I’d never see it. Dead wrong. He has plenty of food drive, he just doesn’t value kibble.


Shadow has NO food drive and I'm not even joking. Doesn't matter what it is the excitement level barely tops noticeable. She noticeably likes chicken and gets moderately happy for her toothbrush every day.
It's weird because she used to scream, yes scream, for food when she was tiny. She couldn't see it but she could smell it and she went nuts!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> Just to show we do exercise. Even on leash. Short leash and on the road because it's hunting season. Lol.
> View attachment 565488
> 
> Anytime I'm free I take my rotten dog out for a hike. Usually we head into the woods but this time of year I feel better on the roads. Right after I took this we found a couple of spent rounds and a feather explosion, so the road is no guarantee either. It's all crown land. Great fun to camp and hike.
> ...


I play with Valor with my shoes. He will occasionally grab an ankle. It's part of the game lol


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

If I poke at Scarlet with my foot, she will bite it. So I don’t poke her with my foot, lol. The other day my foot was sticking off the couch, and she came along, licked my foot, then flea bit my heel. Ouch!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Valor ambushed me over the back of the couch, in the air, jumped on my back.

Love this dog.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

David Winners said:


> Valor ambushed me over the back of the couch, in the air, jumped on my back.
> 
> Love this dog.


Dogs are supposed to give us joy. Valor is doing a good job.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

When Scarlet was not quite a year old, I looked up to see her standing in the recliner with my teenage niece. I yelled “make her get down”. Instead she just patted her on the butt. Yeah, this dog is rotten.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

If I could get across the border I would sneak Valor home with me! 

I think people need to understand that it's ok for dogs to act like dogs, but all of this crazy behavior is in fact our own fault. We can complain all we like, but they will only ever be what we make them.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> When Scarlet was not quite a year old, I looked up to see her standing in the recliner with my teenage niece. I yelled “make her get down”. Instead she just patted her on the butt. Yeah, this dog is rotten.


She is so beautiful! I would let her share my chair.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> If I could get across the border I would sneak Valor home with me!
> 
> I think people need to understand that it's ok for dogs to act like dogs, but all of this crazy behavior is in fact our own fault. We can complain all we like, but they will only ever be what we make them.


I strictly control behaviors I don't like. I also try and let the dog be the dog. I want them to enjoy life and have fun. It's not about me. It's about US.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> She is so beautiful! I would let her share my chair.


She is a very pretty girl, and actually a lovely dog. I badmouth her a lot (deservedly so) but I’m crazy about her.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> She is a very pretty girl, and actually a lovely dog. I badmouth her a lot (deservedly so) but I’m crazy about her.


I love knucklehead dogs. Sapphire used to tell me stories about Gus resource guarding, challenging her, and just being a butthead. I always loved that dog.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

David Winners said:


> I love knucklehead dogs. Sapphire used to tell me stories about Gus resource guarding, challenging her, and just being a butthead. I always loved that dog.


My wonderful old girl Carly was a treasure. My nephew said she was “too perfect”. So naturally polite and serious. In contrast Scarlet is a goofball.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

dogfaeries said:


> My wonderful old girl Carly was a treasure. My nephew said she was “too perfect”. So naturally polite and serious. In contrast Scarlet is a goofball.


And fun!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

David Winners said:


> And fun!


Very! 

Scarlet will never be accused of being serious, lol.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dogfaeries said:


> My wonderful old girl Carly was a treasure. My nephew said she was “too perfect”. So naturally polite and serious. In contrast Scarlet is a goofball.


Sabi was born serious. She never acted goofy or puppyish. I seldom saw her really play. It just was not her style. She chased the other dogs on occasion, but she almost always held that air of dignified reserve. 
Shadow is completely the opposite.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> Sabi was born serious. She never acted goofy or puppyish. I seldom saw her really play. It just was not her style. She chased the other dogs on occasion, but she almost always held that air of dignified reserve.
> Shadow is completely the opposite.


The contrast can be startling! I was always surprised that Carly really liked Scarlet, since they were so different.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Fama and Xander. The most unlikely of friends.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

David Winners said:


> I strictly control behaviors I don't like. I also try and let the dog be the dog. I want them to enjoy life and have fun. It's not about me. It's about US.


This it in a nutshell! Me and my dog!

She does stuff other people may not think so okay, but she's perfect to me!

I never had a bad day with my puppy/dog! So I'm either in serious denial, or she really is perfect! She's 4 now, and I'm already thinking about how short their lives are compared to ours...

The other day we were out, her off leash next to a highway, and I just thought some things that she reacted to...unreal!

It's an amazing thing the bond that develops! So yeah, seriously in denial here!!! LOL!

Problem? Define problem!!!


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Star hasn't done it in a long while, but she used to 'head' balls that I threw for her. She must have been a soccer player in a previous life! I learned VERY FAST not to throw balls indoors if there were breakables within range, because I never knew what direction the ball was going to go! She broke the irreplaceable porcelain shade on an antique gas lamp I used to keep in the living room. The shards were scattered from one end of the room to the other.

She headed a ball the other day on our walk. Did my heart good to see it, though the effort made her stumble!

When she was much younger, she'd pull my socks off and lick my toes. I had to make sure the socks went into a laundry hamper with a lid after she removed them, as she'd eat them. One day, I made the mistake of putting half a sock in the wastebasket in my study, with some papers on top of it to hide it.

She found it, and ate the other half...


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> What is wrong with spinning for excitement at dinner?


Spinning?
My dog uses a knife and fork (the correct fork not the salad fork) and wipes the corner of his mouth with a lace hankie .... he eats only off the best china and drinks out of a crystal goblet. Pinkies out ....


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> Spinning?
> My dog uses a knife and fork (the correct fork not the salad fork) and wipes the corner of his mouth with a lace hankie .... he eats only off the best china and drinks out of a crystal goblet. Pinkies out ....


Years ago husband walked into the living room and said Are you feeding the dog with a fork??
Yes. I replied, somewhat puzzled.
Why? He demanded.
To which I replied, still a bit puzzled, How else is she supposed to eat cheesecake?

He just shook his head and left the room.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

When I was a kid, my mother fed our GSD from a fork if there was something particularly tasty she wanted to share. If I tried that with Scarlet, she’d impale herself.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> Years ago husband walked into the living room and said Are you feeding the dog with a fork??
> Yes. I replied, somewhat puzzled.
> Why? He demanded.
> To which I replied, still a bit puzzled, How else is she supposed to eat cheesecake?
> ...


LMAO!! 🤣 😁


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I think the relationship with you and your dog should be more of a partnership.
But that doesn't mean it's 50/50


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## cagal (Sep 3, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> Years ago husband walked into the living room and said Are you feeding the dog with a fork??
> Yes. I replied, somewhat puzzled.
> Why? He demanded.
> To which I replied, still a bit puzzled, How else is she supposed to eat cheesecake?
> ...


Haha. I thought I was the only one who fed a dog off a fork. But only because I don’t like them eating off plates


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

So as I am sitting here eating my dinner Punk walks over and sniffs my plate(I don't have a table) which is a serious no! I give her a light smack on the muzzle with my fork that gets me a dirty look and a huff. She then turns her back on me and lays down. After I'm done eating I give her a treat which she ignores until I put it on the floor. Then she picks it up, takes it to her crate and closes the crate door! She is laying in her crate with her back to me, eating her cookie. 
I have very definitely ruined my dog.


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## MyWifeIsBoss (Apr 27, 2020)

Sounds like you have a lot of work to do.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Sabis mom said:


> So as I am sitting here eating my dinner Punk walks over and sniffs my plate(I don't have a table) which is a serious no! I give her a light smack on the muzzle with my fork that gets me a dirty look and a huff. She then turns her back on me and lays down. After I'm done eating I give her a treat which she ignores until I put it on the floor. Then she picks it up, takes it to her crate and closes the crate door! She is laying in her crate with her back to me, eating her cookie.
> I have very definitely ruined my dog.


Should have thrown a towel at her


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Should have thrown a towel at her


AAAAAAHAHAHA... Funniest thing I've read this week.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> So as I am sitting here eating my dinner Punk walks over and sniffs my plate(I don't have a table) which is a serious no! I give her a light smack on the muzzle with my fork that gets me a dirty look and a huff. She then turns her back on me and lays down. After I'm done eating I give her a treat which she ignores until I put it on the floor. Then she picks it up, takes it to her crate and closes the crate door! She is laying in her crate with her back to me, eating her cookie.
> I have very definitely ruined my dog.


How dare you hit shadow. If you had made her a plate too you wouldn’t have this problem.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

David Winners said:


> AAAAAAHAHAHA... Funniest thing I've read this week.


Thank you.
Try the fish
I'm here all week ....


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Apparently I am forgiven. She has opened the door.
I need to be very clear that at no point is she allowed to sniff my plate. Hard NO. It's one of my house rules, food on plates is mine. I could set my dinner on the floor and leave the house and she would not touch it. 
But over the years I have determined that as dogs age they begin to test the boundaries.

I would have made her some but it's a mac and cheese casserole. I saved her some of the bacon though, it has a bacon top.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I don't eat their dog food, they don't eat mine....


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

My dog food almost always has green tripe in it.

That's a hard pass.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Apparently I am forgiven. She has opened the door.
> I need to be very clear that at no point is she allowed to sniff my plate. Hard NO. It's one of my house rules, food on plates is mine. I could set my dinner on the floor and leave the house and she would not touch it.
> But over the years I have determined that as dogs age they begin to test the boundaries.
> 
> I would have made her some but it's a mac and cheese casserole. I saved her some of the bacon though, it has a bacon top.


I have similar rules. Your response sounds more gentle than mine.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

David Winners said:


> My dog food almost always has green tripe in it.
> 
> That's a hard pass.


That smell is terrible. I’m surprised dogs eat it.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Bearshandler said:


> That smell is terrible. I’m surprised dogs eat it.


Apparently terrible is subjective


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Dogs eat their own poop. Tripe is some gourmet stuff....


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## davewis (Jan 7, 2020)

That is funny... and I was just worrying about it myself.

Since it started getting cold I have to open the closet door to get out my jacket. Ole figured out that instead of me picking out a toy he can reach into the closet and grab one from the hanging shoe holder I use to store his equipment.

This morning was chilly. I had to fumble around looking for a hat. By the time I notice, Ole had moved all of his toys from the closet to a pile by the front door. Pup had a pile of tugs, balls, and toys by the door bigger than my toy box as a kid.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> I don't eat their dog food, they don't eat mine....


My dogs have always differentiated between sharing and begging. Again rules. There are snacks that we share and meals that we don't.
Holidays are exceptions since often I have only a dog for company over the holidays we all get dinner. I eat little to no processed food so it's all healthy, baked sweet potatoes are always a hit.
Neither Shadow nor Bud would go anywhere near tripe! Sabi would have eaten the can so her opinion didn't count.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

David Winners said:


> Apparently terrible is subjective


Bear is picky about eating kibble. Give that raw food with tripe, you’d think he was a starving dog on the street. The other one turns psychotic.


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## GSDchoice (Jul 26, 2016)

Shadow sounds so smart and like such an interesting and quirky character!
( Maybe she taught herself to read, the way Rumo taught himself words like "doyouwantsomeicecream")

re Shadow going into her crate and closing door-
Dogs do hold grudges! I can't remember what offensive thing I did, but Rumo wouldn't look at me and kept his head turned away while I was petting him and it seemed really weird. Until he finally 'smiled' at me and waved his paw for a tummy rub - I realized that before, he was actually "Mad" at me! I guess dogs show grudges by withholding their attention/affection, turning their back on us or not responding (which gives us great insight into how to discipline a dog...). Rumo was able to hold his grudge for about 15 seconds, though. Because dogs are better than people.


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## pfeller (Sep 10, 2019)

This was such a refreshing thread to read. At times I feel bad because I let my pups get away with so much. I know I should train them more, be more consistent, get them to be more behaved. But I LIKE them the way they are. 
Well, except maybe that rare time when someone comes over, they get uber excited and insist on attention from the visitor. But even then, they will settle if I insist on it..... 
but its cute and frankly if the person doesn't like it, they don't have to visit. I'm fine with that.


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## CactusWren (Nov 4, 2018)

My dog had a pretty good start, but I decided the NILF protocol was not how I wanted to live my life. 

As a result, he rushes ahead me through doors, hops up on me at my desk multiple times a day, and wakes me up in my loft bed long before I want to get up.

It's okay, I'm good with it.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rogan used to flop his flop paw up on me when he decided it was time for me to get up. I know how fast that can morph to getting up in the dark hours before I want to (do you really think dogs sleep 8 hours at night?) so we ended that _cute_ little trick before it could become a habit. Then he tried just pawing the bed once or twice. Same result and even though you were now fully awake, you had to force yourself to not move for 5 minutes after a verbal correction so he didn't think his little ploy worked.

Rogan is not exactly graceful with those huge and heavy paws and getting one of those in the eye when you're asleep in something I wish to avoid. He kinda throws them at you lol


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## Carla (Apr 13, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> I ruined my dog. There I said it.
> So much of Shadows first couple of years was spent fighting for her life that I gave no thought to beyond that. Why train a dog that was probably not going to survive? It seemed like every week was a new catastrophe. One health issue after another.
> I woke up one morning and thought "Ok, looks like I'm keeping her. What now?" Lol.
> 
> ...


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## Carla (Apr 13, 2020)

It doesn't really sound like you want to! LOL. And if your dog is not ruling the roost, so to speak and is not the dominant type, you will probably will be ok.
If you ever decide you have to, I would say, YES YOU CAN. I had to. I had a dominant aggressive GSD, who was threatening my children. Seriously... stalking, growling. It was a scary situation. Not many GSDs have this trait, thankfully. I had him evaluated by a canine behavior therapist who happened to be near me studying medicines at a nearby pharmaceutical company. I was lucky to find her. Otherwise he would have been euthanized. He was lucky I found her. We used the NILF program. It is called "Nothing in life is free." It worked! Even the children had to demand a behavior before he could go outside, eat, play. 
I now have the sweetest GSD on earth. She would never think of growling at a human being unless they were threatening me. I think it is all about good breeding! 😊


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Carla said:


> It doesn't really sound like you want to! LOL. And if your dog is not ruling the roost, so to speak and is not the dominant type, you will probably will be ok.
> If you ever decide you have to, I would say, YES YOU CAN. I had to. I had a dominant aggressive GSD, who was threatening my children. Seriously... stalking, growling. It was a scary situation. Not many GSDs have this trait, thankfully. I had him evaluated by a canine behavior therapist who happened to be near me studying medicines at a nearby pharmaceutical company. I was lucky to find her. Otherwise he would have been euthanized. He was lucky I found her. We used the NILF program. It is called "Nothing in life is free." It worked! Even the children had to demand a behavior before he could go outside, eat, play.
> I now have the sweetest GSD on earth. She would never think of growling at a human being unless they were threatening me. I think it is all about good breeding! 😊


Shadow is 10 now. We've been rubbing along together just fine. Breeding is about as bad as it gets short of physical deformity and she's fear aggressive. 
But she's sweet as sugar when she's waking me up in the morning. She growls while licking my face and barks if I stop rubbing her back. She hates sleeping without touching me, likes to be with me while eating and whines when people on TV yell or fight. She hid behind me during a horror movie once, and last year she changed the channel when I left a scary show on.
I cannot imagine her any being any other way. I do however take full responsibility.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

Sabis mom said:


> I ruined my dog. There I said it.
> So much of Shadows first couple of years was spent fighting for her life that I gave no thought to beyond that. Why train a dog that was probably not going to survive? It seemed like every week was a new catastrophe. One health issue after another.
> I woke up one morning and thought "Ok, looks like I'm keeping her. What now?" Lol.
> 
> ...


The first dog I had was a collie that liked to jump on me. So I trained her to jump on command. I'd tell her to jump in a really excited voice, she'd jump, I'd hug her, and we were both happy. She also had a tendency to be a "Gandhi dog". She had civil disobedience to an art form. But she was still a great dog and made me really happy.

If you and your dog are both happy, I don't see any issues. People who want perfect pets (or kids) would be better off with a robot.


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## Shefali (Aug 12, 2020)

IllinoisNative said:


> This thread makes me feel so much better. I let my dog do things I know others would object to, but I don’t care.
> 
> My dog solicits attention while I’m working. I pet him anyway knowing it encourages him to demand attention...which he does. I don’t care.
> 
> ...


I allow my dog to solicit attention too. And a few other "no-nos". But, like yours, my dog is well behaved on the stuff that matters to me. So... yeah. everything else is gravy.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I think the big thing for me is that regardless of the behavior no means no. Yes I allow a ton of foolishness, but all my dogs have been really clear that knock it off/pack it up is not really a request. I also do something too few dog owners do, I teach my dogs that their actions have consequences. These are feeling, thinking creatures. They absolutely have the right to decide to ignore me, and that comes with consequences. 
If you sniff the skunk after I said leave it you will sleep outside.
If you play in the bog you will get tied up and hosed off
If you sniff my food I will smack you with my fork
If you EVER growl at me from atop a bed or sofa, the furniture privileges are gone
And if you persist in whatever asinine behavior made me say knock it off, I will physically remove you from said situation and you will spend some time reflecting on your decision making process.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I believe that's something that Kohler emphasized in his book, and I'm a big fan of 'logical consequences'! If I'd had kids, I would have used this, too, but within reason. (You do NOT let your kid or dog run out into the street, for instance...that 'logical consequence' would be much too horrible to even think about.)


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

And one of this GSD's first acts of defiance was to eat my Kohler book. Half of it is still on my bookshelf as a reminder that I have put THE most effort and training into this guy and even got professional help early after many years of other working breed dogs who were so quickly/easily trained in comparison. 

And yes, he is a talkative whiny brat at home with many other bad habits I know our trainer would be askance over. But you strap on his "working" collars and he is a different dog in public and compartmentalizes it well. 

I have my first ever small dog now. Bought to occupy the shepherd somewhat. Small dogs are cute.. they don't need no stinking manners or training.. no one is going to be afraid of her no matter what she does. Right? She is the little cuddle buddy the shepherd wont ever be... and I have lost my first sofa (and the loveseat) to 16 lbs. worth of Corgzilla. Yep I own responsibility for that.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

I had a small dog once. It took a twist of the mind during the first walk. The dog wasn't "protecting me" I was protecting the dog. She was a cutie and lots of love but not the sharpest tool in the shed. Pre Embark we guessed that she was part whippet/ part beagle and was champion squirrel relocator.


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