# Not a Cujo in class, but in the real world....



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

So, still battling the reactivity battle with Stella. She is great in her classes. And I have been to several different ones. But I just cannot transfer this into the real world. No matter how great she does in a class, as far as not reacting to other dogs, it is totally different when out of class. This is just so frustrating for me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What are you doing in class that you are not doing outside of class? Is it possible to ask the trainer to meet in a different place?


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

What methods are you using to control the reactivity in public? LAT worked for us. My girl had bad DA but after starting LAT the majority of our walks are incident free. It's very impressive how effective it is. Have you had a private trainer come out and show you how to walk with her?


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> What are you doing in class that you are not doing outside of class? Is it possible to ask the trainer to meet in a different place?


We have gone to several different places with Stella. (never near where I live though, but that shouldn't make a difference.) She never seems to go into a full blown Cujo mode. I don't think the trainer has ever seen Stella when she is in full reactive mode. I don't really know why. And I have no idea what is different outside of class. I have started working with a local trainer/breeder who has very different methods than where I have been going. Just this past Saturday I went to one of his classes and Stella did not bark, lunge or do anything with the 6 other dogs there. (He had worked with Stella a few times before I went to this class with her). But just yesterday she went right into Cujo mode while I was walking her and she saw a dog. Just don't know what I am doing wrong....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Jax does that also. We were in the ortho waiting room and she was so relaxed around the black lab across from us. Never made a peep. But we walked by some buggy eyed dogs that was staring at her and she reacted. Try to notice what the other dogs are doing and what breeds. Some terriers with their tails in the air and naturally tense looking might set her off even though they've done nothing. Border collies with their stance... things like that.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Have you thought about having someone else walking with you, having their phone or a video camera immediately available? It may take several false starts where she appears to give signals that she is about to ramp up but settles but if possible continue with it until you have an event recorded.

With Woolf's current trainer, it took several weeks before she saw a full blown reaction, that day it could have been better described as an explosion. He had been mildly reactive before but not so bad he wasn't able to be snapped out of it. Up until then, the training was different and I'm sure there was thought that a lot of what I had been describing was a combination of bad handling and some leash reactivity. I'm not saying the training wasn't beneficial, it was most definitely. But that day, once Woolf was put away for discussion. Her first statement was 'we have a problem'. Training changed, locations changed, more thinking outside of the box and that is when we began seeing small improvements that have cascaded into larger ones.

We search for the best trainers we can find on these dogs, but sometimes they still have to see what happens to really know what they have to work with. Is it possible your trainer would meet you somewhere else other then his location to work with you? He may have the opportunity to see what you are talking about, and you would be able to either see him work with your dog during one of these events or have him there talking you through it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Great post, Twyla


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

What is LAT?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Look At That...it's a game, behavioral modification..works great for Jax


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## tav (Jul 12, 2011)

ok....so how do you play the game with the pup.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

It sounds to me like a portion of the problem is the respect that your dog has for you. When you say that a trainer either walks with you or when trainer has dog in class and the dog doesn't show the type of reactivity that she shows to you alone.....it leads me to believe your dog is blowing you off when it has competing motivations(the competing motivation being whether to escalate full bloom at the stimulus or whether to obey you at that point). That can be a genetic issue or a learned issue,(whether or not to listen to you), if the dog goes bonkers with the same stimulus(other dogs) all the time no matter where or who has the leash or control.....that's one issue, if the dog does it intermittently and the trainer doesn't experience the same level of behavior as you do or the behavior is noticeably worse only with you.......than its possible the issue is partially due to the relationship between you two in terms of respect. I could be off on this but this is what it appears to me.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

This is a great method:


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> It sounds to me like a portion of the problem is the respect that your dog has for you. When you say that a trainer either walks with you or when trainer has dog in class and the dog doesn't show the type of reactivity that she shows to you alone.....it leads me to believe your dog is blowing you off when it has competing motivations(the competing motivation being whether to escalate full bloom at the stimulus or whether to obey you at that point). That can be a genetic issue or a learned issue,(whether or not to listen to you), if the dog goes bonkers with the same stimulus(other dogs) all the time no matter where or who has the leash or control.....that's one issue, if the dog does it intermittently and the trainer doesn't experience the same level of behavior as you do or the behavior is noticeably worse only with you.......than its possible the issue is partially due to the relationship between you two in terms of respect. I could be off on this but this is what it appears to me.


No one else really ever walks her. My dh has a few times without me but didn't encounter any dogs. And I handle her in the classes we go to. She settles down fairly quickly in class. I do believe she blows me off and I guess I need to get a bit more assertive perhaps? I think what I need to really work on is getting her focused on me. Today the trainer I recently started with is coming to my house and I think we are going to take a walk. Should be interesting..... Oh, she also goes a bit nuts with horses, cows and yesterday she didn't like a roller blader that was going by....


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Stella is not that food motivated so I don't know how well the surprise party game would go. I have taught her to look at me but when another dog is there....


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Do you have someone with another non-reactive dog you could train with?


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I wish someone I knew had a dog that Stella could work with. I sat and thought about all the dogs my friends own..... a lot have little barky, jumpy, yippy dogs that bring out Stella's prey drive:laugh:... one has a Sharpei that is scared of her own shadow and never leaves the house....then there is the pit bull that is DA and HA....or the mutt that is also DA.... Nope, not a normal dog in the bunch!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Talk to your trainer. Maybe someone in a different class would be a match to help you.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Would your trainer be willing to do some one-on-one with you around your neighborhood? I assume they have their own dog/s that could work with you?


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> It sounds to me like a portion of the problem is the respect that your dog has for you. When you say that a trainer either walks with you or when trainer has dog in class and the dog doesn't show the type of reactivity that she shows to you alone.....it leads me to believe your dog is blowing you off when it has competing motivations(the competing motivation being whether to escalate full bloom at the stimulus or whether to obey you at that point). That can be a genetic issue or a learned issue,(whether or not to listen to you), if the dog goes bonkers with the same stimulus(other dogs) all the time no matter where or who has the leash or control.....that's one issue, if the dog does it intermittently and the trainer doesn't experience the same level of behavior as you do or the behavior is noticeably worse only with you.......than its possible the issue is partially due to the relationship between you two in terms of respect. I could be off on this but this is what it appears to me.


This was right on the money. I continued working with the local trainer, who also breeds GSDs. It has been several weeks now and I am able to walk Stella and keep her under control. She was definitely blowing me off. We are doing A LOT of obedience. And I did get a prong collar for her. The combination of obedience and prong seems to be doing the trick. I am really liking this trainer. He is no nonsense and has very basic commands. Platz means platz....no need for a lot of other stuff. You just stay there and platz until I tell you otherwise! And the "fuss" command as he teaches it, is not just a heel. It is also a pay attention and watch me even if we are not moving. This seems to be working for Stella. No treats necessary. Once I get this walking thing under control I am going to get to the incessant barking in the yard that Stella does.....but that is another issue for another thread


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## SewSleepy (Sep 4, 2012)

@kat Did you change how you give commands, correct or become more assertive? 

Seven is in training, and while she is super smart, she isn't always listening. I'm trying to figure out how to be a better handler. There's only so much our trainer can do when she does everything perfect for him. 


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

SewSleepy said:


> @kat Did you change how you give commands, correct or become more assertive?
> 
> Seven is in training, and while she is super smart, she isn't always listening. I'm trying to figure out how to be a better handler. There's only so much our trainer can do when she does everything perfect for him.


Yes to all of the above. Became more assertive, use the prong for correction, and I have new command words that I hadn't used before. The trainer said I was too "vanilla" with Stella. I needed to add some spice with her. She isn't a lab he keeps saying. lol

But Stella is 15 months and knows her commands. She just chooses to do what she wants instead of what I want. I resisted getting a prong for quite some time, but nothing else worked for us. And I guess I was too "vanilla" with her obedience. So now maybe I am pistachio???lol


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## prockerb (Sep 3, 2012)

I believe that you have conditioned the dog to be okay in the class area, but you havn't yet bring it out on the road to generilize it well. Of course you need to allways be underthreshold, and keep on pretty much doing what you have been doing in class in the outside world (not easy), but if you can get a few people with non reactive dogs to help you you can try to work it in the real world. The problem is that we don't have a remote control that controls people, and the enviroment to create the best situations for success.:hugs:


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

She will still sometimes react in class or right before it. But it is short lived. Here she is with another dog after class yesterday....one she had been barking at before..... and a little guy named Munch (not lunch!)


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## Zenkai (Aug 16, 2012)

I have the same problem with my dog. I even had a trainer tell me the same thing. Unfortunately I only had the trainer for 4 sessions and I could not believe we couldn't run into another dog while he was here. So he never got to see the reactivity.

Also he was a saint for the trainer. Learning everything immediately and obeying just as fast. If I was the trainer I would probably have wondered why I was called in the first place heh.

Anyways, since we never ran into another dog we never got around to how to correct when he starts to react to another dog. How do you do it? In the last session I had he recommended a spray bottle filled with one part apple cider vinegar and 3 parts water. Said to spray him in the nose as soon as I see him give off a sign. I have yet to try this since I cannot find a bottle other then the large ones and I dont want to carry a large spray bottle the whole walk.

When you say you're being more assertive, do you just mean by tone of voice? A combination of tone and prong correction?

Thank you for any info!


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Definitely more assertive in voice. I guess I was just too soft spoken, although my husband would disagree! And I am not just doling out treats all the time. I guess I never really used any corrections....now I use a quick pop of the prong if she starts to react. Am also looking for a sharper response time. Obedience training is a big part of not reacting. The trainer keeps it pretty simple...As soon as Stella starts to "poof up" or show a bit too much interest in another dog, she gets a "fuss" command. If she doesn't obey immediately she will get a prong correction followed by "fuss" and sit. I am still working on the timing. I think I tend to wait a little too long before stopping her from reacting. I guess I am waiting to see what she will do, which I shouldn't do....
When the trainer was observing us approaching a bunch of cows that Stella reacted to, he said she had looked at me for direction and when she didn't get any she reacted. I honestly didn't see that at all. But he is the expert! 
She reacts less extremely now and I can get her under control if she does. Ideally she shouldn't even get a chance to react. But that is my fault for not seeing the signals soon enough.
In the past I tried the spray water in the face...that would not work if she was in full blown reaction mode. I never heard about adding vinegar.
All I know is that my dog is more attentive to me now than before and I can walk with her and not get pulled around when she sees other dogs.....


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