# OK someone help un-confuse me about bi-colors



## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics

I had asked this on another thread, but I think it got kinda lost in it. And if someone has already asked this, I apologize in advance. But here's my question about bi-colors:

People will look at a dog and say, "that dog is not a bi-color too much tan". I was under the impression through things I have read and a few people I spoke to that it is not the amount of tan, it is certain characteristics in regards to markings that help determine that. So, penciling on the toes, tar heels, and I know something about the vent but I'm on my mobile and don't remember right now lol. But I read conflicting information, some resources say it IS the amount of tan, but others say it's the markings. Here's a chart that's floating around and I want to know what the argument is, or if this is just an incorrect chart.

Sorry to ask like I said, but I just want to set the record straight!


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## dogma13

I'm no expert,but I always thought the main characteristic was a solid black stomach.If the stomach is tan it would be a blanket back.


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## McWeagle

dogma13 said:


> I'm no expert,but I always thought the main characteristic was a solid black stomach.If the stomach is tan it would be a blanket back.


That's what I thought, too. I've never researched it or anything, but that just made sense to me. Looking forward to learning about this!


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## carmspack

that chart is the work of Linda Shaw who I have known for decades , writer and illustrator represented in Das Schaferhund Magazin, Schutzhund USA , Dogs in Canada , etc etc --- book coming out soon The GSD standard .
bi-colour is a pattern which exists in black and tan and in sable .


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics

carmspack said:


> that chart is the work of Linda Shaw who I have known for decades , writer and illustrator represented in Das Schaferhund Magazin, Schutzhund USA , Dogs in Canada , etc etc --- book coming out soon The GSD standard .
> bi-colour is a pattern which exists in black and tan and in sable .


OK great to know the chart is legit. So, then it's not the amount of tan, it's certain markers that classify it as a bi-color then right? I'm lost nothing new lol


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics

Learning something new! I never heard of the black stomach.


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## Castlemaid

Part of the characteristics of a bi-colour are the toe penciling and tar heels. Hard to see in the illustration above, but they are included even in the faded bi-colour example. 

Bi-colour Puppies will normally show a lot more black than a black and tan of the same age - that is why people often can tell a bi-colour puppy from a black and tan one. 

As an example, here are some puppy pictures of a litter that had sables and bi-colours. Notice the bi-colour pups all have extensive black on them (way more than a black and tan would have at that age, including black underbellies), and the toe-penciling is quite noticeable. In some of the pics you can see the tar-heels too. 

(Wildhaus Kennels P Litter)


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## LaRen616

The black bi-color melanistic is my 2nd favorite colored GSD.


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## Bella67

LaRen616 said:


> The black bi-color melanistic is my 2nd favorite colored GSD.


same ^ Especially if they're coaties :wub: My first would have to be the red/black. Solid blacks are gorgeous too.


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## LaRen616

Bella67 said:


> same ^ Especially if they're coaties :wub: My first would have to be the red/black. Solid blacks are gorgeous too.


My 1st is blacks and my 3rd are dark sables.


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## Graychamp

I may be wrong but I've always considered Emma bi-color. Her pencilings aren't as pronounced but she has them and she has black heals. Strange part as you can see though is her belly is a silver/whitish but black up until her belly.


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## Castlemaid

Emma does look like she is a bi-colour. The solid black head, the extensive black down to her feet, the toe-penciling - some lighter coloring under the pelvic area is normal. The solid black down her chest is typical of bi-colours.


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## Jax08

carmspack said:


> bi-colour is a pattern which exists in black and tan and in sable .


Interesting. That's the second time I heard of bi-color being a pattern for sable as well. the other person was referring to my dog as a sabled bi-color.


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## carmspack

Wildhaus that P litter looks amazing !

I have had a sable bi-colour . They are attractive . He went into law enforcement . I have his brother who is a black/tan bi-colour long coat , which also tends to have very substantial bone .


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## onyx'girl

So, I have a sable and he has a sibling that is a bicolor. Genetically, he can or cannot carry the bi-color pattern, correct? He is coloring out very dark but two of his sisters, who are also sable are much darker than he is and we thought they probably carry the bicolor gene, where my boy possibly does not....mom is a B&T with bicolor in her pedigree, dad is a dark sable with no bi in the pedigree.


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## Jax08

Carmen - do you have a picture of that dog?

The woman said Seger was a sable bi-color because of his tarheels and penciled toes. His sire is black and his dam is sable. There is a bi-color farther back in his pedigree not none up front.


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## gsdsar

I was always taught sable was not a color but a pattern. So how can a dog be two patterns?


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## Jax08

that's what I thought too, gsdsar but then how can there be patterned (saddle back) sables?


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## Xeph

> So how can a dog be two patterns?


It's totally possible. There are brindle merle dogs


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## lhczth

Gambit's mom is a melanistic b/t that carries BI. Dad is a very dark sable that carries black. Since Gambit got the sable from dad he had to get either b/t or BI from mom. He may have gotten her extended blanket, the gene that causes en extension of the blanket, but I also think he got her b/t. Gilraen and Gaia got the BI. 

Gavin got mom's BI, dad's black and the extension gene since he will be a very dark or melanistic BI.


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## zyppi

Aren't brindles extinct in the breed?

I love brindle dogs and have understood that though they did exist in the breed that they are no longer?


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics

OK, I think I am now more confused than originally lol...


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## manako

I think they meant dogs in general can have both merle and brindle pattern, not specifically gsd 

Freya would certainly be considered bicolor, but not sure if she's considered melanistic? Her siblings have more coloration than she does. Her ears are brown inside and she has a bit of brown sprinkled on her forehead.


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## vom Eisenherz

Manako's dog looks possibly melanistic black and tan based on the head and legs, but it's a bad angle to say for sure. I'd likely say very dark black and tan, not bi. I'm guessing the dog has some red behind the ears, which would DQ it for bicolor status in my book. 

Here is a dark sable that I suspected carried bicolor, not black, based on his appearance and markings. His sire is sable and his dam is bicolor.

I bred him to a black female and got the puppy attached.

If you know the genetics behind your dogs, it's even easier to discriminate between black and tan and bicolor.


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## Castlemaid

Manako - I don't see any toe-penciling or tar-heels on your dog - so not a bi-colour, but a gorgeous, melanistic black and tan. Very dark black and tans can be hard to tell apart from bi-colours, but the tarheels and toe-penciling are diagnostic. 

That puppy above is amazing!!! Gorgeous!


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## wick

Does the penciling have to be dark and sold ? Wick has black penciling on his toes but it is not as solid, but it is just on the toes so definitely penciling


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