# breed in development



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

here we are 100 years later and we have pretty much the same dog ,







Click this bar to view the full image.









the first dog being 2012 - strange that you would have to indicate which is which.

this line of questioning inspired by a dog that came to my attention in the tracking lines thread (Wendy Sandokan being the dam of one of my females) 
pedigree of Ellamar Lytle 
Ellamar vom Lytle - German Shepherd Dog 
-- one of the reddest red sables I have ever seen









Now look at the alt Deutscher Hutehunde - Harzer Fuchs








Fuchs-Hündin (im Hintergrund Schwarze)

interesting ??

Now Lord and his son Alf Osterburg Quell have a mask seen in the DDR lines, red muzzled lacking black mask and muzzle
Lord and several DDR lines are known to be banks for herding genetics . 
Harzer Fuchs come from the regions of middle and east Germany -- herding land race stock very likely included in the early breedings or when breeders seeing the von Stephanitz mess unfold took it into their own hands to breed the way they felt they had to in order to preserve working and herding.
harzer fuchs dog - Google Search

food for thought

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


----------



## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Interesting Carmen. Good read and great points of intrested is sparking a few questions. This is a red sable minus the black masking gene? This isn't a liver? Does this dog also produce red sables? If they are lacking in herding Genes..... What was the breeders objective or goal with these dogs? Just wondering?


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

more of the Harzer Fuchs Harzer Fuchs pictures | Animal Photography Stock Photos | Image Library of Cat pictures, Dog pictures, Horse pictures and many other animal pictures | Page 1

sorry which dog are you speaking of -- the Ellamar , the red sable minus the mask (not atypical of some DDR lines) or the Harzer Fuchs . The alt Deutscher Hutehunde is about as true as a herding line/family breed can be , including the Harzer Fuchs , the Gelbacke , the Tiger , Die Hütehundschläge - AAH-Arbeitsgemeinschaft zur Zucht Altdeutscher Hütehunde . These were are the regional dogs used by herders since the middle-ages , some 4-500 years , the pool which was put together to unify the regions into one representative of the GSD.

Von Stephanitz had a talent for spotting a good dog, often with a history of having produced well and then he would experiment. Mostly he never quite succeeded as much as the original owner , sometimes gave advice or warnings which would have a line abandoned. This is when the working shepherds disregarded some of the warnings and bred with recognition of the flaws and bred away from them , yet using the good attributes.

In his pursuit for beauty , the temperament suffered . 

This is not liver or any dilution .

So not lacking, but the opposite , saturated with herding genes .


----------

