# Training without treats



## Matt O (Jul 4, 2015)

Hey my 6month GSD does well with treat training but I'd rather not use treats because I don't want him to be expecting a treat all the time for good behavior I also use a clicker and treats. Any other methods you all recommend ?


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Switch up your rewards using different rewards. Food, toys, praise are all rewards. You can mix up the rewards so they all mean as much to your dog. It is actually good to use different methods of reward as long as all the rewards are of value to the dog.


----------



## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

Butters is very treat motivated, but from the get-go I've always done as mentioned above: rotated the reward.

I still use treats most of the time, but praise is also commonplace. I also do a lot of training randomly throughout the day (i.e. asking her to sit before going outside, wait before eating, doing tricks for toys/attention, etc.) using only praise, toys, and/or attention as rewards.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Matt O said:


> Hey my 6month GSD does well with treat training *but I'd rather not use treats because I don't want him to be expecting a treat all the time for good behavior* I also use a clicker and treats. Any other methods you all recommend ?


You can certainly choose to train without treats, but using food rewards does not mean that your dog will always be expecting a treat for good behavior. That's an unfortunately common misperception.


----------



## Longfisher (Feb 28, 2013)

*Nope*



Matt O said:


> Hey my 6month GSD does well with treat training but I'd rather not use treats because I don't want him to be expecting a treat all the time for good behavior I also use a clicker and treats. Any other methods you all recommend ?


Until the dog is at least a year old, obeying every command immediately, requiring little or not corrections don't stop the treat rewards. We did under the direction of a trainer and it took another year to get the dog where he needed to be.

Praise is great...for an already trained dog. Use treats and praise for puppies under a year old. That way they'll soon transition easily to praise when you want to phase out the treats.

Personally, I wouldn't phase out the treats until the dog is obediently following much more sequential commands, three or four, with a treat at the end. I think about 2 years old.

Now on our walks with every passing car my Zeus first sits, then lays then stays without treats. When people pass we always make him bow to humans with the same routine but sometimes a rollover thrown in to keep his mind on me and not them. No treats now, just immediate praise. But we couldn't have gotten here without treats.

Best,

LF


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> You can certainly choose to train without treats, but using food rewards does not mean that your dog will always be expecting a treat for good behavior. That's an unfortunately common misperception.



What she said!


----------



## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

I get what the OP is saying. Rosko is very food motivated. If using treats or even kibble out of my pocket he is all business. And I couldn't believe how quickly he picked up on things. Until I tried to get him to do basic commands with no food in his sight. Sit, shake, down, come. With out food as motivation he would just look like where's the food. So I would have to work with him all over to get what I taught with treats the last few days. Finally I started mixing it up with food, toys, praise, wrestling, while on walks. Sometimes with nothing more than an atta boy. Which always gets me a look like what a jerk. I highly recommend using all methods of rewards. I think it keeps the dog more mentally engaged and it helps to show them that you as owner are a source of many different rewards. Which I hope will eventually get this meathead to have a reliable recall.


----------



## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If you have a dog like mine, you have two choices, food or toys. Praise means nothing to my dog-first one I've had like that. It would be nice if that worked, but he just doesn't care hehe. I still use it in conjunction with one of the other two, but ... yeah.


----------



## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Treats are a two-edged sword! It's very easy to give a reward for the wrong behaviour! I just say no myself.


----------



## GSD3D (Dec 24, 2015)

Does it have to be high-value treat or will a kibble do?


----------



## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

GSD3D said:


> Does it have to be high-value treat or will a kibble do?


 If you choose to use treats, make it a high value treat for new behaviors. Look at like this. If you have a job and get a regular paycheck, everything is going along fine. Then your boss says "Hey I have some new stuff I want you to learn but you only get the same pay you always got" or would you rather him say "and then you will get a bonus you will really like." The high value treat makes a difference if you choose to use the treat reward route.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GSD3D said:


> Does it have to be high-value treat or will a kibble do?


It depends on the dog. My male will work for Cheerios but he prefers dried liver. Other dogs needs a higher value.


----------



## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Matt O said:


> Hey my 6month GSD does well with treat training but I'd rather not use treats because I don't want him to be expecting a treat all the time for good behavior I also use a clicker and treats. Any other methods you all recommend ?



Go on a variable reward schedule. Sit reward sit down reward down reward sit down stand sit reward ect super random. 

Rewards don't have to be food could be play or praise as well but I don't work for free.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I train with kibble and have no trouble at all with that. I may switch to meat treats when we are in class with a lot of distractions. My dog learned Sit in one day and now responds to just a hand signal he's not quite 4 months old. For more complex behaviors, I still treat.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

pyratemom said:


> If you choose to use treats, make it a high value treat for new behaviors. Look at like this. If you have a job and get a regular paycheck, everything is going along fine. Then your boss says "Hey I have some new stuff I want you to learn but you only get the same pay you always got" or would you rather him say "and then you will get a bonus you will really like." The high value treat makes a difference if you choose to use the treat reward route.


I agree with this with NEW behaviors but also us ordinary treats to reward things they know because I don't need the extreme focus to figure it out....

But the part of treat training everyone doesn't learn, is PART OF USING treats (or any rewards) is that you have to add in the 'random reinforcement' to the training. And do that properly too. So you can start using the less favorite treats and praise to the mix for the stuff they know ( but even these will sometimes get jackpotted to keep them worth while).











I'd really start adding a tug toy and engagement type exercises during training as 'jackpots'. This also removes food from always being a reward as well as being more motivating when you do it properly.

Click this -----> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html


----------

