# my dog needs to work



## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

Hi everyone. I am on a mission. I have a 2.5 year old gsd. He was a rescue but is 100% pure bred. I have trained him from kindergarden to advanced obediance and then CGC. He is not a dog that wants to just be a house pet. He is extremely intelligent and I have come to the conclusion that he is not happy at home, doing pet dog things. I have a strong sense that he wants to work. He needs stimulation far beyond what I have here and he is just sitting here, unhappy and bored. I would love to have him considered for police work. I don't even know where to start but I live in New Hampshire- 10 minutes from Mass even and don't know what to do for him. I would absolutely place him into a working home but don't really know how to approach this.

Thanks alot for any advice.


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

Could you maybe look into some SchH work? find a club in your area perhaps to go check out? Or maybe even agility?


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

The problem is I have a full time career and live 45+ minutes from any training facility. I work 11a-7p so can't make weeknight classes so it is incredibly difficult. He is just very high maintinence and while I am doing the best I can, I'd be quite happy if he could be used for a good cause.


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## novarobin (Oct 4, 2007)

You can have your dog evalutated by an experienced Police trainer (I am sure others will be able to direct you how), however, I second the above posters suggestions. Based on your other posts, this may be the best situation. I feel the same way about my Kaper, however, he is a washout of Police training and will not be a working dog. There are plenty of ways you can "work" your dog without him actually be a working dog.


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

I definately understand that!! my hubby was deployed in Iraq for over a year and I was working full time and then some. We hadn't thought about the deployment stuff when we had decided to take on dogs. I was gone sometimes 12 hrs a day commuting and taking care of two dogs by myself. Luckily I had a good freind that would come over to walk and exersize the dogs most days. 
So are you wanting to Donate the dog to a police dept.?


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

I guess I am looking for other interventions that could help. I am going to try to make a sled for him to possibly pull this winter. I am thinking about having him work by helping pull the atv in the yard. He thrives on structure and I don't want his great qualities to be wasted. He is for one bombproof- he doesn't react with gunfire (he goes to the gun range), parade racket, sirens, fireworks, etc. Another thing- he will walk on almost any surface. He is not afraid to try new things including walking on a 2x4, crawl under a chair, jump over an obsticle, loves catching things mid air, etc. He has great qualities.

Could anyone give me specific exercises that would make him "work"?


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

I was looking to get him into the best possible situation given his personality and energy level, smarts, etc. I don't want to be selfish and I love him to death but I feel he is sad and bored and I am not providing him what he needs.


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## novarobin (Oct 4, 2007)

Have him evaluated by all means. Its really great that you want him to be happy, but why do you feel he is not happy?
What kind of work in particular do you think he should do? Tracking? detection work? protection work? SAR?
That would help narrow down what excercises can be done with him.
Are you looking to give him up regardless or only if he is a suitable candidate?


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

He isn't getting enough mental/physical stimulation. I come home feeling guilty after a day at work. He has a dane sister that plays with him but she tuckers out in 1/4 the time it takes him. I have a dog sitter over for midday play/outside break but he seems like he is just not satisfied with just playing a little. He comes to me and wants more and more and I don't have the energy level after a full day of work to give him that high intense exercise. 
I don't want to give him up nor am I just trying to pass him off to anyone. I just feel like he needs more. 

I think he'd do great in SAR. Detection work....then again I am not sure what he would need and all that as I am a nurse and have no experiance in law and any of the above.


I would love to find "that thing" that I could do with him that he absolutely loves and is something I can a)physically do with him and b) do without traveling all over the state to do and c) won't empty my bank account. I have limited resources and want to find someone that can either give him what he needs/ work him to his max potential or give me "tools" that I can use to make him happier and less bored. I hope this sounds right. Long story short, I want what is best for Him.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: abooot99
> I think he'd do great in SAR. Detection work....then again I am not sure what he would need and all that as I am a nurse and have no experiance in law and any of the above.


I hate to be discouraging but the chances of the dog having the proper drive and temperament for scent detection is slim. You must understand that smart has nothing to do with it . The dog must have what we call retrieve/hunt drive that is over the top. The dog must retrieve anything thrown where he cannot see it. The dog must search nonstop regardless of distraction until he finds it using only his nose. NOT sight retrieving. This drive is very difficult to find in a GSD. The dog must do this in warehouses, around traffic,other animals etc etc. Any sign of the dog being distracted from searching for the thrown object washes the dog. If the dog passes this test in any environment, the hips must be xrayed. A lot involved.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: ladylaw203
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: abooot99
> ...


this reminds me of a dog that is being trained for narcotics search. they took this dog to a junk yard, hid a tennis ball in the glove compartment with the doors of the car shut. the dog BIT INTO the door and had almost pulled the door OFF (it was an old rust bucket). this dog also chewed through a door just to get to a ball. now thats what i call ball drive.


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## LEOK9Trainer (Jan 6, 2006)

You might try contacting the below organization. They may be able to find someone to eval the dog for you. Most agencies are now buying dogs so I'm not sure if anyone there still takes donated dogs or not.

http://www.workingdog.org/


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I just went back and read through your old posts about this dog. You've done a lot of work, overall, with him, it seems. I think it's all about the same dog, right? 

If he came from a specific rescue, of course, they will want to know about any placements you are considering. Some shelters as well (the dog I pulled recently-that shelter requires the dog be returned) and other shelters don't ask for that at all. 

What about agility? There are people on this forum who build/know of places to purchase less expensive equipment and do it in their yards. You might need to take a beginner class first...but after that could maybe do it at home. Check out the tracking section as well-might be a fun activity if you are in the middle of nowhere.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quote:


this reminds me of a dog that is being trained for narcotics search. they took this dog to a junk yard, hid a tennis ball in the glove compartment with the doors of the car shut. the dog BIT INTO the door and had almost pulled the door OFF (it was an old rust bucket). this dog also chewed


> Yep, I would look at that one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LEOK9Trainer (Jan 6, 2006)

Yep, I would look at that one








Unfortunately, I do not even waste the gas anymore to look at anything that has not had hip xrays. THEN I mightl eval him.  I import everything except for field trial bred Labs and Goldens. I am training too many to drive around anymore. Most agencies import or go through a vendor for either a prospect or fully trained police service dog. There is a place in Dallas that has placed some but I cannot remember the name right now.... [/quote]

And even the imports from the vendors we use are nowhere near the quality we used to see prior to 9/11. I just bought four dogs from one vendor and the fact that I found 4 at one place astounded me. 3 washed out of the testing and it's normally higher than that. IMO these 3 have no chance of ever making it into any type of police K9 work. I've been to vendors and tested 15 plus dogs to get one good candidate. 
For those trying to donate dogs please don't take this the wrong way but even fewer of these dogs make potential candidates for police work. I can't even recall how many people have called trying to tell me their dog is extra smart, obedient or has a great ball drive. The fact that is has these does not a good K9 make. When I told one lady to throw a screwdriver and a PVC pipe into the woods and call me back with the results she thought I was nuts. She tried to reason that the dog will chase the ball all day long and that should suffice. She failed to grasp that a great ball drive does not mean a great retrieve drive.
We got some good donated dogs back in the 70's and 80's but the sheer number we went through to find the decent one was astounding.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

ladylaw203 said:


> > Quote:
> 
> 
> this reminds me of a dog that is being trained for narcotics search. they took this dog to a junk yard, hid a tennis ball in the glove compartment with the doors of the car shut. the dog BIT INTO the door and had almost pulled the door OFF (it was an old rust bucket). this dog also chewed
> ...


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quote:By the way, I'd sure look at the dog that bit into the door etc for further training as well. I've always told people that the drive to retrieve has to be exceptionally strong. The way to look at it is; the dog doesn't chase a ball/toy etc because it wants too. It chases it because it HAS to.
> 
> DFRost



Yep. Xray does not cost me money. I have gotten so horsey about it that owner xrays,THEN, I will test the dog.








Trying to explain the difference between a sight retriever and a dog that has enough drive to search for it hard. 
It is getting harder and harder to find nice dogs. Too many of us standing in line for the same one.....


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

<<<It is getting harder and harder to find nice dogs. Too many of us standing in line for the same one.....>>>

Boy howdy, isn't that the truth. You forgot to mention expensive as well as harder, ha ha. Geez louise it's getting tough out there. I consider myself very luck. There is a local breeder, who after several years has finally put out a few pretty good dogs. I've trained three from that breeder and would take all she could give me. Well, I say give, but of course I mean buy. ha ha. Unfortunately, she just doesn't have all that many available. 


DFrost


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

JeanKBBMMMAAN - I have done tons with this dog and yes it is the same dog. I rescued him from a bad situation when he was 8 weeks old. I've put hundreds of hours into his training and most people comment on it as it is obvious especially at the vets office.

He is not from a rescue group. I've checked out workingdog website in NH and have shot them an e-mail. They do mention that any dog for donation has to meet certain criteria and the last line says if you have a dog 12-18 months that loves to play ball- something to that extent- to contact us. He is 2.5 years. Not sure how firm they are on age. 

I am considering agility- we took a course for reactive dogs on a leash- he can be reactive- my professional trainer says with me he does this as he is quite protective of me. He acts fine mostly with my husband. 

I was worried he'd act up in agility with me accompanying him. I am also nervous at times which doesn't help either.
I'm going to consider other sports as well like weight pulling- cart pulling, skijoring, etc. 
He needs a strong male firm handler like my trainer and he'd be perfect. I am a little too soft I guess even though he gets away with not much with me. 

I am awaiting a reply from this organization regarding an eval and we will see what happens.


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quote: last line says if you have a dog 12-18 months that loves to play ball- something to that extent- to contact us. He is 2.5 years. Not sure how firm they are on age.


Just so folks will know. It is not that we need dogs who play ball. Lots of dogs play ball or will retrieve when they can see it. We need the over the top retrieve drive that means the dog will search forever,nonstop for a thrown object that he did NOT see fall and cannot see. The drive to retrieve is so strong that the dog willl search for it regardless of envrionment or circumstances. These are also the dogs that perpetually want to carry something in their mouth, bug you to death to throw something, anything etc


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quote: we took a course for reactive dogs on a leash- he can be reactive- my professional trainer says with me he does this as he is quite protective of me. He acts fine mostly with my husband.


Exactly what is that?


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quote:There is a local breeder, who after several years has finally put out a few pretty good dogs. I've trained three from that breeder and would take all she could give me. Well, I say give, but of course I mean buy. ha ha. Unfortunately, she just doesn't have all that many available.


I don't know what we are all going to eventually do. This importing from overseas is BS but the US breeders will just not put out the quality that we can get from overseas in the volume that we need. Those folks overseas know it too.....


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

Reactive dogs are dogs that get aggressive on a leash with either other people or animals- dogs.

Reactive dogs are like barrier aggressive dogs I guess in that once the leash or barrier is removed, the behavior stops. This dog has gone to daycare and has been great.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Reactive dogs: Imagine going in to the dentists to get a tooth repaired. 

Now imagine going to the dentists to get a tooth repaired-- *and they strap you into the chair*. THAT is how a "reactive dog" feels when *on lead* near other dogs or people. 

The barking and lunging means "Get away from me with that thing!!"


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## ladylaw203 (May 18, 2001)

> Quote: Reactive dogs are dogs that get aggressive on a leash with either other people or animals- dogs.


 What is being described is what we call sharp/defensive. Having weak nerves. It is a faulty temperament and genetic. That is why we have to thoroughly evaluate a dog's temperament. These type dogs are not used for any kind of police work


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

"Reactive", now that's interesting terminology. Being an old dog trainer, I call it was it is; weak nerves. Certainly not a suitable prospect for police work. 

DFrost


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

Well, good to know. I guess I need to find something else to do with him to help him out. An exercise or sport he and I can do together. I'm glad I asked about this before I went for a two hour drive to have him evaluated.

I am very frustrated and not doing too good though. For his training so far he goes balistic in the car when he sees people/animals, is super territorial on our property and nipped a jogger once, lunges at moving vehicles if I don't hold on tight, whinning the entire time until the car is well past us, reactive on a leash or "weak nerved", and I'm afraid he'll bite someone or another dog, etc etc.

I am beside myself. I have and am currently spending all of my $ on his allergy issue with injections, spent tons on obediance for him, just bought an ecollar on top of this per trainer recommendation and after all of this, I still have an unhappy bored itchy fearful/aggressive dog. 
I was determined to have a happy friendly obediant dog and was very strict with him as he grew up so he'd behave himself.

.....I guess I had an unrealistic idea that he could make use of his good qualities and work to eliminate his behavior issues. 

Wrong again....
Thanks for the info everyone.


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## DFrost (Oct 29, 2006)

First off, I'm saying this dog isn't suitable for police work. That doesn't mean it can't be salvaged as a pet, used in agility, cart pulling etc. A tired dog can be a happy dog. What this dog needs is some desensitisation training, not police type training. The first thing I'd do is question your trainers expertise. Using a shock collar on a nervy dog isn't all that bright in my opinion. There are many exercises, training techniqes etc, that can make this dog a more balanced and less fearful dog. Shock is NOT one of them. The health problems could be nothing more than diet. I'd certainly look at that first. Then I'd look for a trainer that is more vesed in working with pet dogs particularly those with fear issues. 

DFrost


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## abooot99 (Oct 23, 2006)

I have done all of the blood testing for his allergies and they came back with nothing. $500.
Finally brought him to a dermatologist and they did a $1600 dermal allergy test with him under general anesthesia and we found he's allergic to dust mites/storage mites, feathers, molds,tons of grasses, tons of weeds, pine trees, oak, birch trees hickory trees.
I give him injections every other day to desensitize him to his allergies which may take up to 1 year for results to show and there is absolutely no guarentee it will even work. In the meantime, he is eating antihistimines like candy and they make him marginally better and drowsy. 

I am now emailing another trainer and she basically is saying the same as above about the ecollar.

Sorry if my tone is bitter or anything else but I am just really overwhelmed.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DFrostUsing a shock collar on a nervy dog isn't all that bright in my opinion. There are many exercises, training techniqes etc, that can make this dog a more balanced and less fearful dog. Shock is NOT one of them.


If the Ecollar is used as most people use it, to correct behaviors that the dog already knows, I'll agree. But if it's used as I teach, it can make a nervy dog much more confident. The dog learns that he's in charge of when it stops and when it starts. And there's no conflict with the handler because the dog thinks that the stim comes because of his behavior, not anything from the handler.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: abooot99I have done all of the blood testing for his allergies and they came back with nothing. $500.
> Finally brought him to a dermatologist and they did a $1600 dermal allergy test with him under general anesthesia and we found he's allergic to dust mites/storage mites, feathers, molds,tons of grasses, tons of weeds, pine trees, oak, birch trees hickory trees.
> I give him injections every other day to desensitize him to his allergies which may take up to 1 year for results to show and there is absolutely no guarentee it will even work. In the meantime, he is eating antihistimines like candy and they make him marginally better and drowsy.
> 
> ...


I got two high energy dogs and what work for them is find it games, fetch and agility, about half hour to an hour should take a little of the edge of your pupper


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## mike1835 (Jan 29, 2009)

IMO, go buy used tennis balls on ebay and a tennis racket. ur arm wont get tired and he will have to run farther than you can typically throw the ball. About 1/2 an hr of that and he will have had enough.


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