# Lip Fold Pyoderma



## ZeusofBillyJo

Hello everyone, 

I would like to know if anyones puppers as ever had Lip Fold Pyoderma?

I think that is what Electra has. On the right side of the lower lip it is very crusty looking and red. I don't know if she scraped it on something or if it is caused by something else. 

I want to know if there is anything I can do to try and clear it up. Since we moved we are in the process of finding a new vet and checking them out before we make a decision on who we are going to get.

I will post a pic and show you what it looks like.

So if people can post their remedies to this issue.

Thanks, 

Mike


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## ZeusofBillyJo

Anyone???


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## BowWowMeow

Is it a secondary skin infection? Can you post a picture? Do you want holistic options?


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## GSDLoverII

I know it well, or should I say knew it well.....
I posted several threads on here (cannot find) about that topic.
Gypsy kept getting dry, crusty, cracked and I'm sure very sore lips from drooling so much. Especially, when she plays with her frisbee.

I tried everything, went to the vet and what he gave me didn't work. Tried Desitin, vaseline, vitamin E all didn't work.
Then I tried something that my mom used on us as kids when we lived in Germany. It's called Penaten Cream and they don't make it in the U.S.A. It cleared it up completely in 2 days.
I found a German Store where you can buy it online.
It's only about $10 plus shipping, and it's your answer, BELIEVE ME, I know!
Apply on clean, dry lips, and a little goes a long way.
Also, if you dog drools alot, dry their mouth off with a rag during the day.

Here is a link:
http://parthenonfoods.com/penaten-creme-150ml-p-1766.html

Johnson and Johnson took over the company, but they only sell it in Germany (Europe)

P.S. It works wonders on ALL kinds of sores and rashes. For you and your dog. It's made from the oil of the wool of sheep.
Smells great though.


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## ZeusofBillyJo

> Originally Posted By: GSD Lover III know it well, or should I say knew it well.....
> I posted several threads on here (cannot find) about that topic.
> Gypsy kept getting dry, crusty, cracked and I'm sure very sore lips from drooling so much. Especially, when she plays with her frisbee.
> 
> I tried everything, went to the vet and what he gave me didn't work. Tried Desitin, vaseline, vitamin E all didn't work.
> Then I tried something that my mom used on us as kids when we lived in Germany. It's called Penaten Cream and they don't make it in the U.S.A. It cleared it up completely in 2 days.
> I found a German Store where you can buy it online.
> It's only about $10 plus shipping, and it's your answer, BELIEVE ME, I know!
> Apply on clean, dry lips, and a little goes a long way.
> Also, if you dog drools alot, dry their mouth off with a rag during the day.
> 
> Here is a link:
> http://parthenonfoods.com/penaten-creme-150ml-p-1766.html
> 
> Johnson and Johnson took over the company, but they only sell it in Germany (Europe)
> 
> P.S. It works wonders on ALL kinds of sores and rashes. For you and your dog. It's made from the oil of the wool of sheep.
> Smells great though.


They sell that cream here in Canada. We used that cream when our daughter had diaper rashes when she was a baby. We can go to the drug store and get some of it.



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIs it a secondary skin infection? Can you post a picture? Do you want holistic options?


Yes I would like some holistic options. I will post a pick once my batteries are charged for the camera.


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## GSDLoverII

That's great you can buy it there.
Yes, it is diaper rash cream, but it does a lot more than that.
It will clear it right up, I bet money on it!


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## tracyc

Thanks for the tip! I just bought a tin of this creme to have on hand. Luca gets this on his lips.


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## GSDLoverII

> Originally Posted By: Luca_stlThanks for the tip! I just bought a tin of this creme to have on hand. Luca gets this on his lips.


You won't be disappointed.
It is also good for cuts, scrapes and burns for you and your dog.
The tin they have pictured (if you got it from the store I had in the link), was their 100th Anniversary tin. 
Those are gone now, so it will come in a different tin.
They have been around for over 100 years and it took Gypsy with her lip fold Pyoderma for me to finally get some.
My mother was thrilled when I gave her a couple of tins also.
Over the years, she has mentioned how much she missed not having any and I don't know why it didn't dawn on me to get some sooner.
She is 83 and we have been in the U.S.A. since 1960. 
So, that's how long it's been since she had any.








Better late than never, huh?
It took my love for my dog to get it. Not that I don't love my mom.............








Okay, stepping down from my soapbox now.










Penaten Cream 

Description: For over 100 years, Penaten Cream has been used for the treatment of diaper rash, sunburn, dermatitis and for the relief of itching due to eczema.


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## ZeusofBillyJo

Here is the pics from Electra's lip:


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## GSDLoverII

Yup, that's what that is.
Also called Lip Fold Dermatitis. Click on picture.
http://www.merckveterinarymanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23105.htm


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## natalie559

> Originally Posted By: Luca_stl I just bought a tin of this creme


Were you able to find it here in the US?


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## GSDLoverII

This store is in the U.S.A. and imports it. 
http://parthenonfoods.com/penaten-creme-150ml-p-1766.html

They are very prompt with their delivery and no problems at all.
With shipping one tin 150 ml size, costs about $17.00 and it lasts forever.


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## ZeusofBillyJo

I guess it would be easier for people that live in the border towns with Canada and they can go over and come to any drug store or grocery store and pick a tin up.







I don't know why that the US doesn't carry it in their drug stores?


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## localhost

My GSD's lips looked very similar to the pictures shown in this thread. They got in this condition due to her scratching and cutting her lips due to itching caused by lip fold pyoderma that she contracted after playing in dirty lake water. It wasn't the pyoderma making it so awful, but the irritation from her scratching them and getting them inflammed/infected. The pyoderma was very stubborn and kept returning after each successive antibiotic regiment.

After the first antibiotic regiment and its return, she was misdiagnosed with pemphigus. She was put on high doses of prednisone ( to shut down her immune system which is exactly what you DONT want to do with pyoderma). Unfortunately and due to my stupid trust I allowed this treatment plan to occur. It nearly killed her.

I found a knowledgeable vet who was astounded at the wrong diagnosis. IF YOUR DOG RESPONDS TO ANTIBIOTICS, it is NOT pemphigus. Simple rule that anyone should know, but not my previous clueless vet.

My 8-year old German Shepherd has now been on a slowly decreasing regiment of Clavamox for almost a year now. Decreasing the dosage each month by around 25%. Any faster and the symptoms returns within 3-4 days. First the lips will look droopy and swollen, then itchy, she will scratch it and the lips get inflammed and red.

Good luck. Please respond if any questions. I will check back every few days.


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## localhost

Following up, my GSD's lip fold pyoderma has cleared up. What finally killed it was antibiotics (CLAVAMOX is best but most expensive/worth it!) and an external creme mentioned in this thread (thank you!) callen Penatene Creme. I ordered it from an internet site called Smallflower.

A couple of things I learned:

1) Lip Fold Pyoderma is not recognized by many vets (the ones that I saw in downtown Chicago...amazingly enough) and is often misdiagnosed as an immune system disease (pemphigus). They will be very quick to put them on "wonderful" prednisone (perhaps one of the most evil drugs out there). Don't fall for it and research heavily before you even consider it.

2) Run a full course of antibiotics, no shortcuts, strict regiment. I found Clavamox to be the best although expensive.

3) While the dog is sleeping on their side put a thin layer of penatene creme on their lower lip. The reason for the sleeping precondition is it is "less" likely they will lick it off. I was able to do one side a day usually. Patience and timing (sleepy dog) is the trick.

After a week of penatene creme treatment, her lips were better, and I was able to wean her completely from her antibiotics.

Good luck.

Here is Penatene creme link: Smallflower Penatene Creme


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## dogs_dolls

thank you everyone for all of this info!


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## GSDLoverII

I'm glad it worked for you.








It has been a small miracle for Gypsy and that is without the antibiotics.
Penatene Creme kicks a**


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## localhost

> Originally Posted By: GSD Lover II
> 
> I'm glad it worked for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been a small miracle for Gypsy and that is without the antibiotics.
> Penatene Creme kicks a**


Agreed. Wish I had known about it prior to going thru the antibiotics regiments..


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## GSDLoverII

I spelled it wrong, it's Penaten Creme


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## localhost

Yes, I stand corrected also. Here is a link again for convenience sake. 

They were efficient:

Penaten Creme


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## natalie559

Thanks so much for the tip on the creme!!

Penny currently has the said lip condition and I knew exactly where to go looking for answers. I ordered the creme and I am using aloe plant in the mean time to soothe her lip area.

Thanks again- I'll let you all know how it works out.


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## natalie559

More pictures (and it's a GSD) I found while looking on the net:

http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/4702038

Sounds to me like the word needs to spread about this creme because all these posts I am reading, some from years back, on other sites, say the vets are calling for antibiotics and steroids- yikes! if a mere creme will do the same job.


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## BowWowMeow

Rafi has this off and on. I am going to use hypericum/calendula cream and see if that takes care of it. I will report back in a few weeks.


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## natalie559

Penny's lip:

The good left side for comparison:










The dry, red and chapped right side:




























Ouch!


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## GSDLoverII

The penaten creme WILL work. Clean the area first, dry it really well ,and then rub in the penaten creme as best you can, and continue for a few days. A little goes a long way.
You will be amazed how well it works.
I have 3 GSD's and 2 of them would get the Lip fold pyoderma on occasion. This clears it up every time. (And fast)
If your dog drools a lot, dry off his/her lips in that area when you can.
It's the drool that gets inside the lip folds, that makes the germs that is causing the pyoderma. Keeping it dry,will help to prevent it.
It's basically diaper rash of the lips.








At least, that's what it is in our case.
They always have a frisbee or a ball hanging out of their mouths, and along with that is the drool.

Good Luck!
Please keep us updated.


http://www.merckveterinarymanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23105.htm


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## Fluffypants

I just placed my order for this cream. Niko has the same lip issues... hopefully it works for him! My mom is from Germany.... I'll have to ask her about this stuff.









Thanks for the tip!
Tanja


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## natalie559

> Originally Posted By: GSD Lover IIThey always have a frisbee or a ball hanging out of their mouths, and along with that is the drool.
> 
> http://www.merckveterinarymanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23105.htm


As much as Penny loves her ball I have never noticed very much drool.

In the link you posted above I found,

"Licking areas of bacterial dermatitis or infected wounds may spread the infection to the lips and lip folds."

I think that for Penny, rather than drool, it comes from perhaps when she chews herself a hotspot due to allergies. It certainly hasn't been a chronic condition and will be interesting to note in the future if it correlates with a hotspot like this current lip infection has.


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## natalie559

Below are pictures of Penny's lip 6 days post creme. I applied it two times per day, sometimes three. It worked wonderfully! You can scroll up to see the before pictures of Penny's lip.

A little did go a long ways and I imagine the tub I ordered will last a lifetime.

Thanks so much for the remedy!


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## angelaw

Wow she looks great!

But reading the ingredients, how is it any different from desitin?


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## natalie559

> Originally Posted By: Angela_Whow is it any different from desitin?


Hopefully the resident creme expert GSD Lover II will chime in, but on the first page she said that "It's made from the oil of the wool of sheep" and that she had tried desitin and it didn't work for her.

That's my best guess- I cannot read the jar it is written in german


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## angelaw

From the link on the previous page:

Ingredients:
Petrolatum, Zinc Oxide, Lanolin, Talc, Aqua, Panthenol, Hamamelis Virginiana Extract, Hamamelis Virginiana Water, Allantoin, Sorbitan Sesquioleate, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Paraffinum Liqidum, Glycine Soja Oil, Alcohol, Parfum, Cl 75130

I know the main ingred. in Desitin is zinc oxide. So if I added bag balm and mixed the 2 together, I should get something similar to this stuff? 

Just curious.


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## GSDLoverII

Natalie,

That's great! Thanks for posting the picture. A picture speaks louder than words.


Angela,

I tried Desitin and Balmex and A&D Ointment, neosporin, vitamin E and a bunch of others, before I got the Penaten Creme, and they just did not work.

Here is how they make it. (Scroll down)
http://www.economy-point.org/p/penaten-cream.html 


"Imported from Germany! An excellent skin cream, whether used for Baby's Diaper Rash or to eliminate a skin rash for adults. This "water proof" formula simply has no competition."

"Nobody spreads the word faster than parents who've found a solution. That's why we're flooded with orders for Penaten Baby Cream from Germany. Join the legion of fans who depend on this skin-soothing wonder for babies (and adults, too). " AND, apparently Dog's too!!









Read the customer reviews (15) even though they are talking about people not dogs. 

http://www.amazon.com/Penaten-Baby-Creme-5-3-cream/dp/B0006NYDSG

They should pay me to advertise for them, huh?!


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## GSDLoverII

"It's made from the oil of the wool of sheep" and that she had tried desitin and it didn't work for her.


Penaten Creme Ingredients:
Ingredients:
Petrolatum, Zinc Oxide, Lanolin, Talc, Aqua, Panthenol, Hamamelis Virginiana Extract, Hamamelis Virginiana Water, Allantoin, Sorbitan Sesquioleate, Cetylpyridinium Chloride, Paraffinum Liqidum, Glycine Soja Oil, Alcohol, Parfum, Cl 75130





10 Facts About Lanolin

1. Origin

Sheep's wool is a natural fibre and has many valuable commercial uses. Sheep are shorn every year. Cleaning or 'scouring' of the wool is the process of washing the natural grease from the wool. Natural wool grease protects the sheep from the harsh elements and extreme weather conditions. The raw wool grease is then refined into many different grades of Lanolin.

2. Absence of Cruelty

Lanolin is obtained from the wool of the sheep which is a renewable resource. There is neither animal testing nor cruelty to the sheep.

3. Composition
Lanolin is obtained from wool grease through the process of refining. It is a unique and complex amalgam of natural waxes. Lanolin is not, and can not be, obtained from the body fat of the sheep.

4. Pesticides

Refined Lanolin is pesticide free. Any parasitic control agent applied to the sheep to prevent distress or suffering of the animals is completely removed by the process of modern refining. Refined Lanolin is considered more pure than most foods we consume.

5. Safety

Lanolin is entirely safe and probably the most tested of all cosmetic ingredients. It is included in all medical pharmacopoeias and the EEC Cosmetics Directive Second Amendment allowing Lanolin to be used in cosmetics without restriction. Lanolin has been used safely in Cosmetics for over a hundred years.
6. Environment Friendly

Lanolin is completely organic and of natural origin. It is non-toxic, non-hazardous and fully bio-degradable. It is environmentally friendly and a renewable resource.

7. Alergenicity

Lanolin is not a significant allergen. As the incidence of allergies is less than approximately 6 per million then lanolin is less of an allergen than fish, eggs, strawberries, etc. 

8. Positive Action on the Skin

Lanolin has an unequalled moisturizing and emollient action on the human skin, which it protects in the same way as the grease on the sheep's wool protects it from the ravages of severe weather and climatic conditions. Its ability to moisturize the skin is related to its water binding capacity. The benefical properties of Lanolin have been known and utilized since the time of the ancient Greeks. Lanolin is absorbed by the stratum corneum where it reduces excessive moisture loss, thereby restoring softness and elasticity, especially to dry or chapped skin. Shepherds and industrial workers who are in constant contact with wool are renowned for the softness of their hands.

9. Hair Growth

Myth - Lanolin does not cause hair to grow, either on the face or elsewhere. If it were a hair growth stimulant, demand would outstrip supply.

10. Quality Control

Modern refineries produce Lanolin of the highest standard. The quality of production is controlled by laboratories using sophisticated analytical techniques to meet and exceed worldwide specifications. The Lanolin used in the manufacture of Lanolin is of the highest standard and contains less than three parts per million of all impurities.


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## angelaw

I was just curious as to why something locally wouldn't work. Now you could probably add lanolin to the desitin/bag balm blend??? Just thinking out loud. I don't need any of it but I was just brainstorming











Thanks for the info!


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## natalie559

Last year my other dog got this nasty irritation where her legs meet her tummy. I tried several home things that didn't work and it wasn't getting better. I took her to the vet and he said it was an irritation of some sort to who knows what that had turned into a bacterial infection and that she needed antibiotics. I reluctantly gave them to her and it healed. Vet trip plus meds cost $50 plus time and gas. 

Low and behold she has the irritation again. Same time as last year.

I decided to try the P creme and it worked!

Sasha's belly 10-21-08










belly again on 10-29-08










10-21-08



















10-29-08










The moment I applied the creme I could see relief in her face and she never tried licking it again! I put it on twice per day.

Awesome stuff!


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## dogs_dolls

Got my order of Peneten and it WORKS!! I am just so pleased and so is Major. He does not even try to lick it off. A few days and it cleared up. Thanks so much for the heads up on this product. And yeah a little goes a long way!! ONe tin of this stuff should last us for years.


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## Daisy1986

OK, I might be buying this creme, but not sure. Shadow's has a red dot on the side of his mouth, it was not there before. I took notice of this because of what I have read here. 

Then the next day up front on his chin and right under his nose he has pink splotches. Not dry not red, like someone took a paint brush and painted pink in the blk on his face. 

Is this the beginning of the pyoderma???


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## fitz91701

I recently found this board and looked at both the threads that this thread references about Penaten cream....

But to add to the people that put in blistex, chapstick, etc, I have found that my dog responded well to plain vanilla generic petroleum jelly (aka vaseline)...

It could be tough to distinguish between the lip fold polydermia of the bacterial type, but my dog had lips just like some of the pictures. At first I thought he just got clipped at the dog park but a nip, but then I read that they could get it via the common water trough, but luckily it looks like a simple case of badly chapped lips, but they are healing nicely now (with an added break from the dog park until they are totally OK).

Thanks for the pics and the advice on remedies.


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## localhost

This was identical to how my GSD's lips looked. Clavamox regiment and penaten creme, applied when she is sleepy.

The itchiness causing her to scratch it makes it look a lot worse than the pyoderma.


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## natalie559

I wanted to bump this thread as someone else was asking about the cream.


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## Amy1420

Thank you for posting this. My GSD has this exact issue and the vet gave antibiotics and nothing worked. Just ordered the cream. I'll keep you posted how it does.


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## Nscullin

Amy1420 said:


> Thank you for posting this. My GSD has this exact issue and the vet gave antibiotics and nothing worked. Just ordered the cream. I'll keep you posted how it does.


Mine had it. Resolved on its own. No treatment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jaywalker

natalie559 said:


> Thanks so much for the tip on the creme!!
> 
> Penny currently has the said lip condition and I knew exactly where to go looking for answers. I ordered the creme and I am using aloe plant in the mean time to soothe her lip area.
> 
> Thanks again- I'll let you all know how it works out.


My GSD started having the same issue. I just ordered the cream and after 2 days he’s almost completely healed!


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