# My Journey of Information Gathering.



## Animage (Dec 5, 2010)

So I went out to Durand Meat Processor (Durand,MI) and got some general information. They specialize in mostly pork and beef. They do have chicken just not alot of it. 1/4's and thighs are 0.99 /lb. They can order chicken backs and are checking into the price for me on 40lb box. They were just about to close when I arrived thanks to the fact they are in the sticks and my GPS ran me down a dead end road, so i had to figure it out myself.

I got a look at their beef board, prices didnt seem overly low but forgot to ask if they had a list of prices or if they minded i took a photo with phone, 

The pork prices I did not see at all. Now if i recall you can feed pork but there is a reccomend time to keep it frozen as to kill the parasitic worms of which i forget their name, correct?

Unfortunatly they have no other meats except Chicken, Beef, and Pork. So i guess the search goes onward for other meats to help keep it a balanced diet. I did buy some leg 1/4s and are for now going to feed a RAW / Kibble diet to see how my two take to it. I need to get a chest freezer before i take the full plunge and hopefully find other sources of protein to make this healthy for them.

So the search continues....


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Not sure how close these areas are, but worth looking into:

Oma's Pride Retailers


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

I've never had a problem feeding pork and never have consciously frozen it for any period of time. In fact, sometimes it goes right from the refrig case at the store to the dogs bowls.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Did you get my pm about the rabbit?


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## Animage (Dec 5, 2010)

No I did not onyx.

I am not really knowledgable of pork cuts. What from the pork could they eat as far as RMB goes? The meat is of course easily found in chops and cutting up a cheap roast. 

Another question, as far as hamburger goes. Do you guys just get the cheapest stuff with the higher fat content?


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

Beef, pork, and chicken are plenty of variety. While variety is good, you don't want to branch out so much that you have no options left for an elimination diet if the dog develops a food allergy.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Animage said:


> So I went out to Durand Meat Processor (Durand,MI) and got some general information. They specialize in mostly pork and beef. They do have chicken just not alot of it. 1/4's and thighs are 0.99 /lb. They can order chicken backs and are checking into the price for me on 40lb box. They were just about to close when I arrived thanks to the fact they are in the sticks and my GPS ran me down a dead end road, so i had to figure it out myself.
> 
> I got a look at their beef board, prices didnt seem overly low but forgot to ask if they had a list of prices or if they minded i took a photo with phone,
> 
> ...



It is funny that you used the term "balanced". How in the world do you know what the dog is eating in the first place? Are you just guessing? Why so much muscle meat?

What is your idea of balanced?


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

sable123 said:


> How in the world do you know what the dog is eating in the first place? Are you just guessing?


Well...

I put a chicken quarter in the bowl, so umm... the dog is eating... umm... chicken. Or is there some dog food transubstantiation miracle whereby a chicken quarter transforms into something other than a chicken quarter when placed in a dog bowl, that we should know about?

How do you know what "chicken" on a dog food label is? Chicken byproduct meal, on a dog food label, legally, can be nothing but chicken FEATHERS.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sable123 here you go again! Wow, if you are so anti raw, just stay out of the raw threads.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Maybe Sable just looks at thread by using active topics and doesn't even realize what threads they are jumping into....or at least we can hope. I don't feed RAW yet but I lurk to learn.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Sable123 here you go again! Wow, if you are so anti raw, just stay out of the raw threads.


I could have sworn that he once said he fed RAW but now I can't find the thread. He also said he worked in the kibble industry.


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## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

He bounced over here, never responding to my posts on the other most recent food-related thread. 

Convenient.


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## Animage (Dec 5, 2010)

07-26-2010 05:13 PM - permalink
sable123 

Personally I would feed Abady or Annamaet. You are in Chicago you can get Abady easily. This is from a guy that is very close to the industry, me.

Well here is what Sable123 would reccomend. I took this directly from his public profile.

I am just wondering how he is "very close to the industry".... sounds to me like a snake in the grass.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Maybe Sable just looks at thread by using active topics and doesn't even realize what threads they are jumping into....or at least we can hope. I don't feed RAW yet but I lurk to learn.


I am very familiar with raw feeding, much more than you all. The truth is the original poster does not know what the word "balanced" means in animal nutrition.

You really should be using organ meats such as tripe as the corner stone to this diet, and you should make a cake or biscuit of some kind with brown rice & stone ground corn and feed up to 25% whole grain. Also b-naturals has a nice daily vitamin blend. Celery is a very good source of fiber.

You should never feed a weight bearing bone of a bird, never.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Since when is tripe organ meat? 

Since you are much more educated than the rest of us, could you please tell us your experience, including what capacity you work in the dog food industry, o give us a better handle on your experience level?


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

sable123 said:


> I am very familiar with raw feeding, much more than you all. The truth is the original poster does not know what the word "balanced" means in animal nutrition.
> 
> You really should be using organ meats such as tripe as the corner stone to this diet, and you should make a cake or biscuit of some kind with brown rice & stone ground corn and feed up to 25% whole grain. Also b-naturals has a nice daily vitamin blend. Celery is a very good source of fiber.
> 
> You should never feed a weight bearing bone of a bird, never.


Isn't the only reason it is called balanced is they cook the kibble to death and then have to add all the stuff back in and make sure the calc/pho ratios are right, etc... But if you feed naturally that stuff doesn't HAVE to be added back in. I know I don't get a balanced diet everyday but I do get balance over time.

If you feed chicken leg quarters that has raw meaty bones and muscle meat. You can also add hearts and livers for organs (though don't over do the liver) and the tripe is good for the good bacteria. It is not overly difficult. I'm still working my own recipe up when I grind - like adding blueberries and broccoli and some canine omegas (fish oil). The skin and fat of the bird (if chicken) is great for the coat too. Again - you don't have to grind....but if you feed muscle meat, raw meaty bones and organs you will do fine - the phos/cal ratio is perfect in raw foods. Any calcium not used is pooped out anyway.

But with raw there is no need to add anything but what came from nature unless your dog specifically is missing something that the food in its most natural state cannot provide.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Chickens are butchered at a very young age so their bones are not tough. Feeding chicken legs/thighs are fine. However, I do NOT feed turkey legs or thighs unless they are ground. Those are to tough for Jax to digest. I feed poultry necks primarily (duck, chicken, turkey) or chicken backs. If you feed necks or backs, you will need to adjust the MM to get the correct ratio because of the amount of bone. I figure quarters at 75% RMB and necks at about 45%.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Oh, my Sable123 you amaze me with your knowledge!! Especially knowing how long the posters on this board have been feeding a raw diet.
judgements don't make you more superior....in fact just the opposite.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

sable123 said:


> I am very familiar with raw feeding, much more than you all.


Would you care to tell us how long you have been feeding raw to your dogs? I believe that knowledge comes from experience, not just books.



> You really should be using organ meats such as tripe as the corner stone to this diet


First off - as other have said, tripe is NOT an organ meat. Organ meats are determined by their nutritional values - not their functions. For example, the heart is considered muscle meat, not organ meat.

Second, when you say 'cornerstone' - if you mean the majority then that statement is wrong. Organ meat does NOT make up the majority of the diet. In fact, organ meat makes up the smallest portion of a carnivores diet.

Think of the typical prey of the wild canid. Wolves go for the large herbivores - like Elk, Moose or deer.

If you break any of those down to their essential (and edible) parts you will find that organ meat - brain, liver, eyes, kidneys and such - make up a very small percentage of their total body mass.

Most bones of these types of prey are not truly edible so you are looking at about 20% of their body weight being edible bones. The rest is hide (edible but not nutritionally valuable) and MEAT.

Meat makes up the largest part of their edible body mass.



> , and you should make a cake or biscuit of some kind with brown rice & stone ground corn and feed up to 25% whole grain.


Dogs do NOT need any grains in their diet. Sure - they can eat them and survive on them but they are not *necessary*.



> Also b-naturals has a nice daily vitamin blend.


This we do agree on. I use and recommend B-Naturals products.



> Celery is a very good source of fiber.


Not for dogs. Not unless you run it through a blender or juicer and then mix the pulp back in with the juice.

Dogs are not designed to eat vegetables. In order for an animal to get the nutrients from any type of vegetation they need to be able to break down the cell walls.

Herbivores, like cows and deer, have flat teeth and jaws that can move side to side so that they can grind down the vegetation they eat. Most herbivores have specially designed digestive systems (like multiple stomachs) that allow them to completely digest vegetation in order to get all the nutrients from it.

Dogs are carnivores. They are not designed to eat vegetation. Their teeth are pointed, their jaws do not move side to side and their digestive system is short and fast.

My qualifications to make the above statements?

I have been raw feeding for over a decade.
I have raised over a dozen dogs on raw (no grains, no veggies, 45% RMBs, 50% meat, 5% organs)
I have switched 2 puppies to raw at 8 weeks of age (Kaynya and Mauser)
I have switched a very ill senior to raw (Sadie)
I have switched numerous foster dogs and puppies to raw
I have whelped 2 litters that were weaned directly to raw
I have 2 dogs now (from the above litters) that have never in their LIVES eaten kibble and never had veggies or grains as a part of their diet (just the occasional treat)
I run a Raw Feeding Yahoogroup for German Shepherd owners
I run a website for people interested in switching to raw


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