# Please help! 6 Month old Tasmanian devil



## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

I have a 6 month old female GSD, who is so HYPER! Her name is Sky. She knows all the basic commands, but is so hyper she can't sit still. She is almost CRAZY. She is the sweetest thing though. All she wants to do is Play, not a mean bone in her body. I know that is normal, but she has such a drive that I don't know what to do with her. She runs and runs, if you try to calmly pet her, she goes crazy....She has no self control. Were to the point we can't hardly touch her. She was an inside dog, but due to her energy level, we had to put her outside... She doesn't care what she does, or who she hurts, she gets excited and nips at us, she used to break the skin, but that stoped. I swear she just can't control herself. We have gotten her playing ball (fetching), which she loves, but she is still crazy wild! Will she ever slow down? 

Her and our cat used to play very well with eachother, and recently she plays so hard with the cat, that the cat hates her, and we are having to keep them apart, due to Sky possibly killing the cat in play. We have no control of Sky when she would play with the cat, she total blanks us out. So we made the cat an inside cat until we can get Sky calmed down.

We have a 5 acre track in the counrty, so she gets all the exercise she needs, what am I missing here?

Also, we have thought about getting another BIG dog for her to play with....Would that possibly help?

We don't want to breed her, but we have read that maybe letting her go through a heat cycle or two might calm her down, atleast enough to think before she acts...What do you guys think, any help or comments are greatly needed!

Thanks so much for your time, I hope you guys can help me here!
Rachel


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:We have a 5 acre track in the counrty, so she gets all the exercise she needs, what am I missing here?


No she's not! No way she's getting enough exercise unless YOU are outside with her for about an hour a day, playing fetch with her but most of all TRAINING her. She is probably mentally bored out of her mind. Sign up for agility classes and get some basic agility equipment for your property. I think you have a budding agility pro on your hands and agility training is a fantastically fun and great way to tire out a body and most of all the MIND.



> Quote:She was an inside dog, but due to her energy level, we had to put her outside


Bring her back inside. Tossing her outside is going to make things MUCH worse.



> Quote:We don't want to breed her, but we have read that maybe letting her go through a heat cycle or two might calm her down, atleast enough to think before she acts...What do you guys think, any help or comments are greatly needed!


Maybe yes, maybe no. Also, during her heats she can be extremely lovey or extremely aggressive. Plus, if you don't keep her inside then you're going to have a litter of six more hellions. Please spay her.

What you describe is a PERFECTLY NORMAL GSD PUPPY. She is active, intelligent, and craves brainwork. This is not an "outside dog" breed, one that will exercise itself on its own. This breed will sleep until it sees its owners, and then be all ready for ACTIVITY! So what you are doing right now is completely the wrong things and they will get worse. Sign up for obedience/rally/agility classes, whatever tickles your fancy and work with her daily. Once she has had plenty of exercise, you will find that she gets calmer in the house and easier to handle. My guy is exactly the same way. If he's had his exercise (MENTAL exercise, mind you), he's calm and huggable and pettable and generally really nice to live with. When he hasn't, forget it- he's wound up and ready to play! This is totally normal especially for the GSD.

Please bring her inside and exercise her and train her. A GSD should never stop at just the "basic commands." With a property that large, surely you can train her to do useful work. Work with her on carting and pulling so that when her body is mature, she can pull wagons around for landscaping chores or act as a "courier" between whoever is in the house and whoever is outside on the property, work up to holding a down on one end of a field while you walk to the other end of the field to call her, work on heeling, anything you can think of. This dog needs mental challenge!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Getting another dog would likely cause you to end up with 2 out of control dogs. Sounds like she needs TRAINING.

Are you out with her when she is getting execise? Or is she just left outside alone?

Letting her go thru a heat cycle isn't going to calm her down. Exercise (both physical AND mental) and AGE are what calms them down. There are aslo some dogs that are just "wired" differently and they are unable to calm down and relax. But without being around her, we have no way of knowing if she is one of those of not.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

You're not "working" the dog. you have to work/play with them directly, tug games, fetching games find it games and such. Can't just throw a GSD into some acerage and expect them to safely excersise. You need to work on obedience training. Second dog would just mean twice the problems. IMHO waiting until she is older to spay is a good idea for health reasons IF you can keep her away from other dogs.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:Exercise (both physical AND mental) and AGE are what calms them down.


Age, huh? Yeah I think Renji will calm down when he's old enough to be six feet under.







In the meantime, since we have no yard (HorseCrazy, if I had property your size, I would have an agility/lure coursing/herding HAVEN set up for my pooch!), we go to the nearest empty dog park with the Chuck It. I spend the first few minutes running down Renji like a cheetah runs down its prey, then we do agility handling moves since we don't have any equipment. I send him over a pipe on the ground, send him around trees, and work up different combos. You wouldn't believe how much this works his mind, but that's why agility is so great. It is SO MUCH FUN for active dogs to fly over jumps and shoot through tunnels, way cooler than just running around a field, plus there is a TON of mental work involved when learning to follow directions and hand/arm/body signals from the handler. When Renji is trying to figure out a directional, the little hamsters in his brain-wheels are spinning FURIOUSLY, then when he gets it, wow it's a huge triumph. He always sleeps well after we practice handling.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Oh, another GREAT mind-working game is to teach your dog names of her toys. Renji knows the difference between his jack (stuffed toys that looks like a jack) and the kongs, but we're still working on him learning the difference between "red kong" and "black kong." Or maybe just getting the black kong when he knows it's there but only wants to play with the red kong.







We also play "find it" games where I down him in one room (he must hold a down-stay) and hide his jack or kong in another room. I start out easy and then end with a difficult search and his mind and nose work feverishly! He's also quite tired after a game like this.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DianaMOh, another GREAT mind-working game is to teach your dog names of her toys. Renji knows the difference between his jack (stuffed toys that looks like a jack) and the kongs, but we're still working on him learning the difference between "red kong" and "black kong." Or maybe just getting the black kong when he knows it's there but only wants to play with the red kong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see the same in my dogs, the searching games tire them out faster then the simple fetching games and obedience excersizes can wear them out quickly as well


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Honestly even in a park full of dogs, my dogs would rather be playing with me than playing with the other dogs. Sure, it's fun to sniff butts and mingle with the other dogs but as far as playing goes, if mom aint playing too, it aint fun. Having 4 dogs in the house to play with each other doesn't keep them nearly as entertained as playing with ME. Getting another dog isn't going to solve your problem unless YOU are ready to mentally and physically wear out TWO big dogs.

I'm very worried about the fact she's not only 6 months old (Meaning she's a puppy) and outside but also she's INTACT and outside. PLEASE spay her and PLEASE bring her inside. She's not going to tire herself out running outside unless again, you're playing/working with her.

Get her into some obedience classes (And later on maybe do Rally or something), work with her at home on training, look into some agility classes (Though I wouldn't do much jumping (Or at least high jumping) until she's at least 12 months old) and make sure you're exercising her mind and body daily with one on one work.

You say you can't hardly touch her because she gets all hyper. She's bored first of all but thats one thing you can start on with her training, TEACH her to control herself. If you go to pet her and she started getting all crazy and hyper, stop touching her and turn your back/walk out of the room. No talking or correction. Once she has calmed down, return to her and try again. It may take a few times but she'll eventually learn that if she's quite and calm, she'll be rewarded with attention. If she is crazy and hyper and running around and nipping and not being calm, she gets no attention.

She's only going to slow down if you work with her to get her tired.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Please know we've not just "Thrown her outside" She gets a ton of our attention, we make it a point to play/train her serveral hrs a day. 

Her energy level is so high that it's hard to get her to listen, train, or even pet....She is a fireball, and out of control fireball. She is more worried about finding the cat to chew on, than being with us. It's so hard to grab her mind, she is always looking for somthing else to do. She loves being with us, but to her other things are more important...And we try really hard to be her center. 

So how do I get her to clam down enough to train? Please answer that.... I am stuck here!

Thanks for your help!


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Find a reward that is more important than anything else that keeps her attention and use it. Chance for example will work harder for a tennis ball than any other toy or treat. So I use that as his reward when we train.

What all do you currently do to exercise her besides fetch?


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Chance's Mom, Thanks for your reply. Sky isn't going to be bred...No Way We have a fence in place and if we do let her go through a heat cycle, she will come inside... 

When were outside, were playing with Sky, we hid her toys (which she loves), play fetch and we play with tug toys...but honestly she is more worried about running around finding something to get into. We try really hard to grab her mind, but it's almost impossible at this point....She just wants to do her thing.....


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

She is HIGHLY FOOD DRIVEN, and we use that to our advantage... She will do anything for a treat, but then she gets so excited about the treats that she explodes, and forgets what she is doing.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

She needs more involvement from you.

1. Bring her back indoors to be an inside dog. This will keep her in synch with what YOU think, want, need,. and expect.

2. She needs MUCH more excersise. Being in the 5-acre yard won't help. Going for walks won't help. What will help settle her right down and give you relief-- throw balls (2-ball retrieval game) until she is truly tired. I can only promise this: Walks will not be enough.

3. Change her food. Really. Do it slowly, gradually-- but try a grain-free kibble. All the extra carbs of a food that contains corn, rice, barley, etc etc in most "normal" brands of kibble can give her carb-high jitters.

4. Gosh, she's tired after the all that ball throwing! And you've just spent all that time getting the balls out, getting her ready-- throwing for her-- then coming inside again! BUT... here is where the even MORE involvement part comes in. She's settled down enough now that she can be doing fun training games to tire her mind:
Sits, Downs, Stays, and Comes-- on all sorts of surfaces. The smooth marble of the entryway outside your bank. The bumpy woodchips at the park. The grass at the corner of Main and Elm streets. And-- oh, my!-- the raised position of a picnictable at the playground! Wow.. doing fun training games on these many different surfaces will tire her BRAIN out.

So much more work than you expected, huh? Well, me too.







I agree! Who has time for this stuff? Welllll... we make time, if we want this breed to live with us. I totally agree this isn't easy! Teenagerhood isn't forever, even though folks on this board often joke their dogs never outgrew the high energy stage. Some dogs ARE forever high energy-- but most aren't.

You can do this! It sure does take time and involvement. But the most critical here is that she gets MUCH more excersise.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I've seen dogs climb 6ft fences and dig under them to get to a female in heat. Please keep her inside and only let her out when you can watch her.









If she's into finding things to get into then redirect that habit into a GOOD one. Hide toys all over the yard for her to search out. (Tracking would also be something to look into teaching her) Like Diana said, teach her the names of her toys then put them in a pile and ask her to get a certain toy.

Also you should look into Nothing In Life Is Free. She'll need to work for everything she does and so it'll teach good habits and learn to control herself. Obedience classes would also help a LOT.

You REALLY need to teach her control. (Which control will also come with a worn out dog) Anything she does or gets needs to be done when she is calm. (Such as what I said with the petting) Before she gets her food, she needs to sit and be calm. If she goes for it before you sit it down and tell her she can have it, you pick it up and wait for her to calm down and try again. (This would be best if you have someone to help you so you can handle the food and they can handle her while shes on a leash) Until she is calm and told she can have it, she will not eat. Use this for other things as well. Like when you're playing fetch. She must do something to earn the throw. (ie. sit, down, wait, ect)

And I also agree with Brightelf on everything she said.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

I bet we throw to ball for about 2 hrs a day total. My husband has achutly thrown the ball so long, that his arm hurt, and he was worried about Sky running so much...I swear this dog doesn't tire out...to where she is calm, it seems she knows nothing about calm! She is a spark plug!


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: HorseCrazy3621I bet we throw to ball for about 2 hrs a day total. My husband has achutly thrown the ball so long, that his arm hurt, and he was worried about Sky running so much...I swear this dog doesn't tire out...to where she is calm, it seems she knows nothing about calm! She is a spark plug!


wheredidja get her from?


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## elsie (Aug 22, 2001)

<applause>
great advice, everyone!
working their mind is key.
boredom make us nuts, and it'll make them even nuttier. if we don't continually nurture the minds, a depressed adult will emerge from the once wild puppy.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

We do make her sit or Down anytime she wants to play, the ball thrown, even for her food. I myself make he be calm or I will not give her attention, but on the other hand, my husband thinks it's cute for her to be so excited. Sky knows what she can get away with, especailly with my husband. He lets her get excited to the point she jumps in his arms....But she does that only with my husband, not me, the kids, or anyone else. We need to work on excercising her mind, and in order to do that, she has to be calm enough to listen....That's the problem, she doesn't tire out! LOL

Thanks so much for all your help everyone, I will keep you posted on her, I hope she calms down soon!


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

A breeder, Sky is a working line pup, her father and her mother are working dogs.... (Herding, and protection lines) I knew when we got Sky she was going to be a handful, but WOW, I had no idea she would be this hyper! And I know that with her nipping that is just what has been bred in her...So I always keep that in mind, I just want her to clam down, so I can love on her, and bring her back inside to live with our family.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: HorseCrazy3621... Sky is a working line pup, ..... calm down, ....


Non Sequitur,

I would find a trainer or in your area that could help you learn how to work and train your uberhund. I got two and I must give them vigorous mental and physical workouts daily in order for them to be in the house and have those quiet moments


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

HorseCrazy, sign up for classes. A good trainer (I'd recommend someone certified by APDT or a good schutzhund club) will be able to teach you how to get focus and attention from her and how to progress from no distraction to some distraction to lots of distraction. 



> Quote:We need to work on excercising her mind, and in order to do that, she has to be calm enough to listen....That's the problem, she doesn't tire out! LOL


Agility training + tug toy/ball reward = one very easily trained AND tired dog. I'm practically willing to bet money that Sky explode with joy during agility training. You don't really even have to do anything formal if you have no desire to compete- you can buy or build all the equipment and just use your imagination with training. You don't even really need jumps, just get a couple tunnels and some PVC pipes to lay on the ground (Sky shouldn't be doing serious jumping right now, anyway), and go to down. Teach her to walk over a jump, praise profusely and bring down the tug toy and PLAY PLAY PLAY! Let her win the tug when she does a great job. Send her through the tunnel and run to the other end and toss the ball so she FLIES out of the tunnel to snatch her reward. Work on sequences- jump, tunnel, jump, TUG REWARD! Send her ahead over a jump, direct her back to you, send her through a tunnel, over a jump and over another jump and PLAY TUG because she did so well! 

Take her to a schutzhund club for evaluation. See if it is something you're interested as well. If you're interested and she has what it takes, problem solved.









She needs a JOB. Sky certainly doesn't sound like the type of dog content with everyday pet life. Take her to some sort of structured training where you work together (please do NOT do a "board and train"), then you will learn what activities work best as well as how to continue training at home. You may find yourself having to always be in classes just to satiate her need. She is a working dog and she will never calm down to be "just a pet" without someone willing to work her at least every day.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Also, please rememer: SIX MONTHS old. She will calm down a little between 18-36 months of age or so, depending on lines, but please do not expect any sort of "calming down" until then. She's a puppy and you are just now venturing into the adolescent months. You haven't seen anything yet.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DianaMAlso, please rememer: SIX MONTHS old. *She will calm down a little between 18-36 months of age or so*, depending on lines, but please do not expect any sort of "calming down" until then. She's a puppy and you are just now venturing into the adolescent months. You haven't seen anything yet.


or maybe not


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Well I did put in there "a little."









I do think we need to define "calm." HorseCrazy, what is your complete idea or definition of a "calm dog?" What is your truly ideal "calm dog?"


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Remember how nutty WE felt at age 14? Really wacky, ants-in-the-pants stage!







My dog is 2-- and Czech lines-- so he is "at that age." Gaaahh!! He struggles-- I mean really struggles-- to walk at my pace during a walk. And I *do* walk at a pretty good clip, too! That's even after his running about chasing balls, and some mental work, too.

Bring that doggie indoors. Excersise her more. Sign up for classes-- then do the homework daily at home. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, but we have to work through this phase.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

Exercise and training like everyone else has said, but....

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but I have noticed HUGE improvements when I take out grain, or limit the carbs in their diet. My boy is on an all raw diet and his brother (whom my friend owns) is so much more hyper and is on Purina Puppy Chow. He simply cannot focus for very long. It isn't fair to ask a dog pumped with sugars and grains to focus--it is almost impossible for them with a diet like that! Imagine what your kids would be like if you only fed them sugar!! Just something to think about on top of all of the other advice.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Laura, brilliant! This is very true- kibble with carbs is like pumping Pixi Stix and Red Bull into an ADD 6 y/o kid. Grain-free or raw REALLY helps.







Renji did even out a little when we switched to raw but we didn't notice a real difference until he hit around two. He is not at all hyper, but he is very active and always ready to do some work.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Also be aware that there ARE some dogs that will NEVER be "calm" house pets no matter WHAT you do or how old they get. Though I would venture to say that at her age, it is too early to say that is the case with her. 

And as Diana said, she is only 6 months old. It WILL get worse before it gets better.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

LauraC, I'm glad someone has brought up nutrition. This might be key to the pup's hyperactivity!

I don't have that problem with my 7 month old pup, just my 5 year old son who I'm currently warring with the school system over what they feed him.

My working line pup gets plenty of exercise but I take him to the basement (1/2 " padded floor) several times a day and throw his ball until his tongue hangs out sideways and he stops bringing it back.

When I play with him, I do not get excited. He gets the ball, I tell him calmly to 'bring it', he has to put it somewhere near my feet, I pick it up and throw it. I try to include some crazy bounces off the wall to mix it up and get his mind working on how he's going to catch it.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

You guys have such great ideas, and you make me feel like it will get better!

My idea of calm is...A dog that can sit to be petted, that can take a nap during the day, isn't running all over the house(Sky doesn't walk anywhere, she runs). That doesn't knock over everything in her path (including people). Sky is so hyper that she knows wrong and right, but she acts before she thinks. For instance she knows she's not supossed to get on the couch, but she does, and then thinks to herself (Utho I'm not supposed to be on here) Then she gets down...She is too busy playing, she needs to think before she acts. I know that is just puppy, but I am really worried about it, she needs to chill out so I can train her....It sounds like alot fo you know what I am dealing with here. LOL


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

That's a good point about food....I didn't think about that, I feed Purina Pro Plan, which I know isn't the best, we throw in raw about 1-2 a week.

I really hope she calms down, to be a good "House Dog", I didn't expect her to be this hyper. But maybe with age she will calm down some!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

She's just a six month old, how you describe her is normal. Get her into classes! Are you researching trainers yet?







If you start classes now and CONTINUE them, by the time she is two years old she will be a lot better and more mature. Do you have a pedigree of her? We may be able to estimate her age of maturity if we know her lines.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

I haven't registered Sky yet, but 

Here is her father- http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/526870.html

Her Mother-
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/398405.html

We have had one GSD from the sire, which Maya was wonderful, as alot of you she was stolen from us. Maya was nothing like this, I guess it's Sky's mom coming out in her!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Actually Sky is mostly german SHOW lines rather than working lines.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Oh really....?!?!? Well do you think she will be a well balanced dog when she gets older?


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

Some of the German Show lines can be a bit much for some people


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Sky is mostly German showlines but she also has a touch of working lines and half of the sire's pedigree looks to be BYB. There really is no telling how Sky will be when she is older. Good breeders do strive for balance, for intelligence and energy with an off button, but this pedigree is a big unknown.







Just get her into classes, I cannot stress that enough! Do NOT compare Sky to your previous dog; Sky is Sky and however you handled your previous dog is not working with Sky so you need to change how you deal with her. Classes will help.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

just got back from AKW's website, it looks like they are purposely breeding German Show and Czech working lines together. I'm not sure what the goal is there. Are they trying for that "Golden Middle" nonsense or trying to bring up the drive or health level of the show lines?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Cash is a working line boy too. I've found that when I play fetch with him, he'll do _anything_ to get me to throw the ball again. So I throw the ball, he brings it back, and we'll do an obedience command. As a reward, I throw the ball, he brings it back, we do another command-- always mixing up what I ask him to do. Throw the ball and when he brings it back, heel to the other side of the yard and throw it again.

This works his mind as well as his body and tends to wear him out more than just playing fetch. 

As you've just discovered, if you just play fetch without working his mind, all you get is a dog with enough endurance to play fetch ALL. DAY. LONG.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

They breed whites, working lines, and showlines in a mishmash. I don't think there is going to be any consistency or predictability.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/526870.html
Also, Sky's sire, AKW'S Magnum Shepherd, is quite inbred. Sky's sire's grandparents are FULL SISTER AND BROTHER.







Gosh I hope that pedigree is wrong.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

I feel bad for using them now....I am just an everyday person, who was pointed towards them by a breeder at PetSmart. I don't know much about pedigree's, but I did notice the inbreeding when I was getting Maya, they told me there was something (I don't remember what they told me) that they liked about both parents, that's why they were bred. AKW's didn't bred Magnum though, she said she wouldn't of done that. They are really nice people, and that's why I went back for Sky. Plus Maya was one of the One in a Million dogs, and I hoped to get another one....I know that is wrong, but I wanted another Maya, and Sky is not her....


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

MaxGunnar, yes I think they want a good median....From what I unstood from them. It sounded good to me....Is that bad?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: HorseCrazy3621She is HIGHLY FOOD DRIVEN, and we use that to our advantage... She will do anything for a treat, but then she gets so excited about the treats that she explodes, and forgets what she is doing.


I have a dog that will go crazy for food too, so I taught him that in order to get it he needs to look AWAY from the treat and focus on me. He can stare at the food, he can jump at the food, he can nibble on my hand, whatever, but he will NEVER get it! I started with the briefest fleeting glance of eye contact, marked it immediately (Yes!) and gave him the treat. Once he figured that out, I started gradually increasing the criteria - 2 seconds of eye contact, 5 seconds of eye contact. If he looked away during that time I marked it (Oops!) and when he looked back, the time started over. 

Initially I'd work on this indoors with low distractions before attempting it whens she's running around the yard like a crazy thing. The more food motivated she is, the easier it will be to teach her what she needs to do to get the food, and the faster she'll learn. But you need to be consistent, and everyone in your house needs to be on the same page. Require eye contact until released for EVERYTHING. 



> Originally Posted By: HorseCrazy3621I myself make he be calm or I will not give her attention, but on the other hand, my husband thinks it's cute for her to be so excited. Sky knows what she can get away with, especailly with my husband. He lets her get excited to the point she jumps in his arms....But she does that only with my husband, not me, the kids, or anyone else.


Husbands are the worst!







In order to truly teach her that calm self control will get her what she wants you need to get your hubby on board with the new house rules. (I have a hubby who is harder to train than the dog, so I know that's easier said than done.







) Running and jumping and blowing you off earns her nothing. Ever. If everyone in the house completely ignores her when she's like that (don't look at her, don't talk to her, don't touch her - she's the invisible dog), AND when she is being good and calm and obeying rules she gets tons of rewards - praise, petting, treats, play, she will eventually learn. 

If your hubby likes having her jump into his arms, he can make it his idea. Decide what to call it and put the behavior on cue. If she jumps at him and he hasn't cued it he should stand completely still with his arms at his sides or crossed, and look away or stare at the sky until she stops, and then he can immediately tell her "up", or "jump", or whatever you want to call it, and/or pat his chest as a visual cue. If she gets any attention whatsoever when she's behaving badly, even if it's to tell her NO! or push her away, you're reinforcing the behavior. What is reinforced will continue, and conversely, if it no longer works, she'll eventually stop doing it.

Unfortunately what often happens is that by the time a dog like this finally winds down after a frenzied, hyper rampage and is being calm and good everyone is exhausted, breathes a sigh of relief, and then ignores her. So it's really important to take the time and make the effort to acknowledge and reward the good behavior too. Notice when she's playing nicely with a toy or chewing a bone and tell her how good she's being. Sit on the floor with her and massage her. If she gets excited and jumps up, get up and walk away. Give her a couple of chances, and if she just can't calm down, give her a brief time out in her crate. (You do have a crate, yes?) 

Cassidy was a wild one, and when she got wound up and out of control I'd "that's it, you're done" and put her away to cool her jets - that was the cue that she'd blown it. If she came out calm, great. If not, oops, back in the crate again. When Dena and Keefer got so into rowdy play in the house that they blew me off and wouldn't cut it out when I told them to, I'd say "time out!" and put them in their crates. Eventually all I had to do was ask "do you want a time out?" and they'd usually stop immediately because they'd learned that the word meant that their fun was about to be over if they didn't obey me RIGHT NOW.

Another great technique is to "capture" behavior - basically you don't cue her to do anything, you just notice when she's doing something on her own that you'd like to encourage (laying calmly on the floor? giving you eye contact? coming to you?) and then mark it, either verbally or with a clicker, and toss her a treat. She should start offering up these behaviors more and more often once she learns that they earn her good stuff, and then you can name them (down, watch, come), putting them on cue.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: DianaMThey breed whites, working lines, and showlines in a mishmash. I don't think there is going to be any consistency or predictability.
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/526870.html
> Also, Sky's sire, AKW'S Magnum Shepherd, is quite inbred. Sky's sire's grandparents are FULL SISTER AND BROTHER.
> ...


They also breed dogs that are under 12 months old.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Cassidy's Mom, great information! Sky is highly food driven, and I guess I get so upset with her being so hyper, I quit....Which I know is the worse thing....I will have to work on her Calming down, before training.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: HorseCrazy3621MaxGunnar, yes I think they want a good median....From what I unstood from them. It sounded good to me....Is that bad?


The way this breeder is going about is contrary to what is considered a good, responsible breeder. It is a daunting task to find a good breeder and it takes a LOT of research. It's unsettling to know that they bred THEIR sire to such an inbred bitch; however it happened, if they owned Magnum at the time, they should have been diligently checking pedigrees to ensure it's a good match. But what is done is done and you have what you have. She may mature and settle down, she may not, but you can help structure her life to give her calm time and excited time. Cassidys Mom's post is a good one- no more riling up dogs that are like loaded Superballs ready to fly off the walls!

I still didn't read that you're working on signing up for classes.







No Petsmart/big box chain store classes, either.







If you need recommendations we can most definitely help you out with what to look for in a good trainer.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

"They also breed dogs that are under 12 months old. "

Which ones?


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

No two Dogs are alike.. that is for sure. No two GSDs either... make sure you dont compare her too much then you won't try hard enough on her behalf. 
Also DONT give up. I know its frustrating at times and I too made those mistakes. We have two GSDs. Kahn and Bella. Kahn is over 2 yrs old and he is so loving, he cuddles, he is super laid back, we give him excercise but he doesnt need that much because he is honestly lazy but yet his weight is right where it should be so he gets just enough and he is not hyper or distructive in any way. 

Then our lil spitfire Bella came into our life!! wow that was a wake up call for me. For one I needed to stop comparing her to Kahn and two meant I needed to really stay on top of it with the training. We went to a good puppy kindergarten and have started with basic obedience and we practice this everyday even though they say start that at 6 months. (Bella will be 5 months next week) She is a pup and she is going to have alot of energy. Bella is a huge ball of it!! I wish she could give me some! 
However.. She has suprised me on many occassions. She really wants to work hard for me. She is all about pleasing.. that is once I can get her focus. It takes alot of time and patience and if you dont have the patience she will definately sense this too. My best days in training are the days that I remind myself I may have to do this a million times but once any improvement is shown and she gives me that eye contact, its all worth it. 

She definately keeps me busy and she is more of my girl and Kahn is my husband's. My husband compares her to Kahn alot and I always say to him "I wouldnt have it any other way." 

Hope this helps!!! 
Good luck


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

yes I second that too.. No petsmart classes please!! waist of time and money IMO. Find a good trainer in your area .. maybe try to get refs too if you can!


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: DianaMThey breed whites, working lines, and showlines in a mishmash. I don't think there is going to be any consistency or predictability.
> 
> http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/526870.html
> Also, Sky's sire, AKW'S Magnum Shepherd, is quite inbred. Sky's sire's grandparents are FULL SISTER AND BROTHER.
> ...


man that sucks... hope that is wrong! but I was dooped back in the day. I got a purebred Rottie, found out later the dam and sire were siblings. ;/ 
He ended up being a great dog though... saddens me when these things happen!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

While a naturally interesting topic to discuss, I don't see how disecting Sky's pedigree or the practices of her breeder is going to help the OP at all. So let's try to get back on track with some helpful suggestions on working with Sky.









Horsecrazy,

The suggestion to get involved in some good obedience classes with Skye is the #1 thing you can do to help manage her. GSDs need not only physical exercise, but also a lot of mental stimulation and one-on-one time working with their owners and using their brains in order to be happy and sane. Without those things, they can indeed go stir crazy. The body may be tired, but you've got to tire out the mind too. Classes are a great way to accomplish that. And of course, classes have the added benefit of teaching the owners how to better understand, communicate with and relate to the dog, teach the dog manners and proper behavior and handy commands, and are a great way to build a bond and solid relationship between dog and owner.

Another suggestion I would have, especially when Skye is acting hyper, is to really pay attention to YOURSELF, other family members and the environment. Dogs are very sensitive to the energy that their owners and surrounding portray. A great way to have an excited, hyper dog is to act excited and hyper yourself. Likewise, having a calm, settled dog is very dependent on the owner and environment being calm and settled. So be aware of the vibes Skye is being exposed to and you may have to adjust some things in the environment or in your own demeanor in order to help her settle down.

Also make sure you're not giving her mixed signals. We have a house full of working lines (read: high drive, high energy) and one of our rules has always been that inside the house is a calm place. Outside is where we run and chase and play ball and play tug and wrestle. Inside is where we relax. So we make sure we do not ever engage the dogs in rambunctious activities in the house. We keep the house calm, and make sure they have plenty of toys and things to chew on to keep them occupied in a calm manner. It wouldn't be fair to the dogs if sometimes we let them run rampant indoors, or interacted with them in a manner that encouraged that sort of behavior, and then other times expect them to be calm inside. That can be much too confusing for some dogs, and would allow them to practice building habits indoors that we don't want. So instead we make sure we're always consistent: act as nutty as you want outside, be calm inside. And we never do anything with them to sabatoge that rule or give the dogs mixed signals with regard to what behavior is expected indoors. 

And as was mentioned, age and maturity does have a lot to do with it. Adults can be very high energy too, but, most dogs develop a bit of an on/off switch as they gain maturity and life experience. So they learn when it's appropriate to be running amok in an excited manner, and when it's appropriate to relax and chill out. Young dogs, especially adolescents like Skye, often do not yet have that self control, so they're on all the time. Not unlike human children, they have a lot of energy to burn and not a whole lot of restraint yet because they just aren't mature enough for it.


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Ok, so where do I go to look for a GOOD trainer? Do I need a trainer who works with GSD's? I live close to Asheville, NC, help me out you guys! I am desperate!


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

I feel like I have done a great job training Maya, but Sky needs more than I know.... I am going to take some of your advice, and build an agility ring, I think Sky will enjoy that, if I can have her calm enough to pay attention to me....

I know she doesn't need to jump high yet, so how high can she jump? She is 6 months...


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

I would try doing a search maybe here? if anyone maybe is in your area that has a suggestion perhaps? You can also do a search on google but.. when I do that I like to get actual references. 
How we found our trainer was by our vet, the vet had some suggestions too and at the time we had no GSDs just our Rottie/Husky mix but were looking into training. 

This man had two very large male GSDs that were very well behaved. We asked him first where he got them and if he had them trained. He pointed us in the direction of our trainer. We then told other people we knew about him that changed their dogs from night to day. So this is how we found ours. 

Hope this helps...


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

I have a hard time sometimes getting Bella to focus sometimes, keep training with her, and the agility so you can build a bond with her. Like I said before, Bella my spitfire sometimes hard to maintain that focus but when she does its pretty intense!


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

I feel better talking to everyone, I guess Maya was different than most GSD's, she could get hyper, but she could also easliy clam down and be a great house dog....

Maybe Sky will mature some too, and chill out, I will contiune to work with her on being Clam, and use your advice, to ignore her when she's being wild, and reward her with food when she is good!

Thanks for all the hep, I hope we live through this....LOL


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks IluvmyBella, I will talk to my vet about a good trainer!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: DianaM SIX MONTHS old. She will calm down a little between 18-36 months of age or so, depending on lines












Seriously, Doerak was high drive working lines. I can honestly say I never saw him sleep until he got cancer this year. 

We would play 2 ball and train and I'd go inside and he'd want to play some more. I decided to get another dog for him to play with, that's how I got Ciana, another high drive working dog (she sleeps). However, now I had 2 dogs who both competed for my attention. 

Doerak was about 7 or 8 when he finally crossed the bridge this year. Maybe he didn't slow down any, but he learned how to be a productive, helpful, obedient family member. Yours will, too. Give her a couple years.

Just adding that agility was a huge help with Doerak in disciplining his mind. 6 months is a good age to start looking into that.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: HorseCrazy3621"They also breed dogs that are under 12 months old. "
> 
> Which ones?


Eklutna Lytle vom Klatolklin (born December 1 *2006*) is the sire of GBW'S Kaid Ira Von Selma which was born December 6th *2007*.

They also have a Boxr litter due Decembe 29th. The sire just turned *1yo* on November 20th.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Also, I don't now if Kristin (ILuvmyBellaNkahn) mentioned it or not, but her two GSDs that are SOOOO different, are also half siblings. (They have the same dam.)


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

HorseCrazy, your vet may or may not have a good recommendation; it's really hit or miss. Check out http://www.apdt.com to search for a trainer certified through the APDT and other trainers. That's a good start. My trainer, who is certified through the APDT, is a HUGE help for me and my pooch. We'd still be struggling if we didn't find her.


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

I got a lot of help at the Sch club I was a member of as well as some of the Leerburg DVDs. I also consulted the SPCA in Richmond for a behavior issue.


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## KristinEnn (Oct 2, 2008)

These are some great reccomendations from everyone! I didnt actually find my trainer from my vet.. .but while waiting for the vet in the waiting room from another dog owner, but it looks like some people here do have some good resources for you. Just as I thought!









And yah.. I didnt mention my two GSD's are half siblings.







I forget. heh. Kahn is a plush black and tan and Bella is a dark sable so to be honest I do sometimes forget they are siblings haha!


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## HorseCrazy3621 (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks everyone, it's amazing how a blood relation doesn't mean they will be anything alike...LOL But we do love Sky, but are in hopes we can help her calm down alittle bit.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Genetics is an interesting subject. If the dam's genes are prepotent (stronger) over the sire's, the pups will take after Mom. Also, if the sire and dam are grossly different, there won't be any predictability. The best way to get a dog like one you've had is to find a breeding between the same sire and dam so you end up with a full sibling, otherwise write down all the characteristics you've loved in your dog, your ideal dog, the goals for you and the dog, your lifestyle, and anything else you feel pertinent, then discuss these with a prospective breeder. A good breeder will be honest with you and tell you if they will have a litter that may match your goals or, if not, they may be able to help put you in touch with another breeder who may. 

But even then, Genetic Roulette can throw a curve ball. Good breeders can only stack the deck in their favor as best as they can; Nature takes care of the rest.


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

HorseCrazy, I can commiserate with you. I, too, am the owner of a crazy GSD .. *L*

I understand your frustration and why you chose to put her outdoors. Having a dog like that as an indoor dog is very difficult without good management. It's good that you have a place where she's allowed to have a lot of outdoor time, but she'll only learn to be a good indoor dog if you bring her inside and work on manners. Consider an ex-pen, or crates, or baby gates to manage her indoors. Having her confined inside where she can still be a part of the family is going to work better for you long-term.

My girl, Tazer, is 18 months old and she still is in constant motion unless I have her confined. She's been through two heat cycles and they have NOT slowed her down a bit. The only reason I've allowed her to go through heat cycles is because she's kind of a late-bloomer (physically) and I think she needs the hormones to help her mature more. But I am also very careful to never leave her outside unattended. She is either with me or inside. 

There are a few things I've done with Tazer that has helped her gain some control. I've taught her attention training using treats and teaching her that she needs to look at my face in order to get a treat. I had the steps for this training on my website but my site's down and I haven't put it back up yet. I'll try to pull out the info and post it. It really helps teach the dog that they have to stop, think, and offer a behavior to you before they can get the treat. It's kind of on the same concept as having to stop and wait for a toy to be thrown, but in a more controlled manner.

Also I do what I call "snuggle puppy" exercises with Tazer. I wrap one arm around her chest and the other over her back and I hold her against my chest (I'm leaning over) and then I scratch her chest and belly while I talk very low and in a calm, soothing voice to her. I tell her "snuggle puppy - be calm - goooood girl" and she has learned to lean in against me and accept this calmly. At first I could only do a few seconds, but gradually it increased until I can hold her for a few minutes now. I still have to watch that she doesn't throw her head back and hit me in the face (she's decided that she needs to give me a kiss in the middle of all of this, which is okay). But overall this has really helped her understand that sometimes she needs to be quiet.

Of course, as soon as I let her go she's off and running again. But that's okay - that's Tazer, and I have no choice but to accept that. She is easily the most wild and active dog I've ever had in the past 20 years. And because of some of my limitations (I have a condition that makes my joints inflamed and painful) I can't take her to agility or even a regular obedience class. If you CAN do that, it will help give your dog something to focus on. 

As already mentioned, daily exercise is vitally important. But I think that teaching your dog some quiet things is also vitally important. It's difficult with a wild child, I know, and you'll have to take things slow (and it would have been easier to start these with an 8 week old pup, which is what I did). You can also try some massage. Tazer has started accepting massage time although it's usually while she remains standing (since I can't sit on the floor with her anymore due to my problems). And I also do a lot of "cookie scatters" to give her something to do. I break cookies (or use kibble) and I scatter it across the floor or through the snow outdoors when we're outside playing. And then the dogs spend 20 minutes searching out every little piece of food. It exercises them mentally, makes them use their noses, and helps wear them out.

Good luck with your little monster! *L*

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## IliamnasQuest (Aug 24, 2005)

Here's the information on Attention Training. I teach my dogs to look at me when I say their names. Some people prefer to have a "watch me" type of command. 

STEP ONE: This is in a low distraction area. I start by having the dog on leash, and have 3-4 treats in each hand. I sit in a chair, with the dog sitting or standing in front of me. The leash is merely to keep the dog from wandering off, so I generally sit on it or put it under my foot. I show the dog that I have treats in my hands and I place my hands on my knees. The dog begins to nose and lick at my hands. This is expected and ordinary. The goal here will be to have the dog learn that the only way to get what he wants (the treats) is to do what I want, which is give me attention. 

I allow the dog to lick and nose at my hands to figure out that he can't get to the treats. I begin to say his name, quietly and calmly. I don't make a lot of noise, or say his name over and over quickly. I say his name, wait for a count of slow 5 or so, and say it again. Eventually - the time it takes is different for different dogs - he will glance up at my face. This happens out of frustration at his inability to get to the treat every bit as much as hearing his name. As SOON as he glances up, I give my reward marker (which to me is a happy "YESSS!") and then immediately open a hand and give him a treat. He will most likely only glance up briefly, so my "YES" needs to be timed just as he looks up - the treat can come after that, but the "YES" needs to be when he glances. After receiving the treat, the dog will go back to the hand .. licking, nosing, trying to figure out how to get another treat. I resume the quiet saying of his name. At each glance up, the reward marker "YES" is given, followed by the treat. When the treats are gone, the session is done. Takes about 5 minutes. NOTE: A treat MUST be given every time you say "YES" even if the dog is then looking away or if your "YES" was poorly timed. Your dog needs to learn that "YES" means "treat is coming!".

STEP TWO: I do Step One two times a day for several days, until the dog is looking at my face eagerly before I even have to do anything. At this time I begin to expect more. Generally the dog glances up and then immediately looks at a hand for a treat, because that's been the order of things up to then. Now I wait .. he glances at my face, gets no reward marker and I continue to wait for a second glance before I say "YES" and give him the reward. Practice twice a day.

STEP THREE: Gradually increase the number of glances you expect from your dog - which actually changes into a longer and longer glance. Reward for longer glances, but still occasionally reward for the short or single glance so the dog doesn't really know what's coming and when. What happens, when you go through weeks or months of this, is that you get a dog who is so in tune with his name that you get an instant turn of the head and a look at your face when he hears it. 

STEP FOUR: When I feel that the dog understands the concept, I start adding in distractions - slowly! I may take the dog outside instead of inside and ask for Step One again. Gradually I increase the distractions - perhaps some kids playing down the street, maybe another dog in the area, etc. You can't expect a dog to learn a behavior at home and to instantly transfer it into a distracting situation. Whenever I add in a new distraction, I take a step back and reinforce frequently for small glances and then build to a longer glance again. 

STEP FOUR: Continue, throughout the dog's life, to sporadically reinforce this attentive behavior. This all works especially well if you do it with the dog's food and he gets no food or treats at all during the weeks of training except for when he gives you attention or some other behavior you want. A dog who learns that you have complete control of every piece of food that comes to him will bend over backwards to figure out how to please you. This is what I try to instill in my dogs.


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## bearlasmom (Sep 21, 2006)

you seem to be forgeting one major issue here. SHE IS A PUPPY, PUPPIES HAVE A NEVER ENDING SOURCE OF ENERGY. PUPPIES MEAN MISCHIEF, CHEWN SHOES, FURNITURE, CHASED CATS. MATURITY COMES through learning, experienceing, training. it takes time and patience.. together nilif training and amichen bonding come in really handy when raising a young gsd. google them and give them a try. you will probably enjoy the experience and companionship together. good luck.


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## SeriousConfusion (Aug 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great point Cassidys Mom.
Time outs are essential for puppies. If you know your dog has been exercised mentally and physically, and they are just too hyper, they can be like overly tired children sometimes.
Crate training is priceless (and never too late to start) ask here if you need advice on how to make the crate a positive place to be.
I'd put my puppy in a crate, and he'd go into a time out. Sleep it off and/or calm down. I wouldn't open the crate door until he was sitting calmly. If he tried to bum rush the door. . . I'd close it back up and try again. 

Time outs can be key to getting a wild puppy to calm itself down if it's overly tired.


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