# Need advice... Would you pay?



## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

So last night I took my dogs to the dog park at my apartment complex to meet up with some other people and their dogs to play. We go late at night so no other dogs that we don't know will bother us. As the dogs were playing, these other owners came up with their two pit mixes. The woman informed us that one was dog aggressive. The guy with her didn't bring it into the park and stood outside the fence. The dog was growling and had all the dogs a little on edge. I wanted to leave, but I wasn't sure I felt comfortable handling two large dogs walking right past a dog aggressive dog so I decided to wait a few minutes. The woman brought the other dog into the park. She started to play with Reagan and everything was going fine when suddenly they just started fighting. 

I immediately ran over to try and get control of the situation. I tried yelling, which did nothing. There was nothing around to block them/separate them with, so I just grabbed Reagan and pulled her back. The other owner did absolutely nothing as her dog continued to lunge and snap at Reagan, even though Reagan stopped reacting the second I grabbed her. I ended up going against my better judgement and grabbing the other dog too and holding it at arm's length since the owner wasn't handling the situation. Once I grabbed her dog, she came over and took it away. There was blood so we both checked our dogs. Reagan's lip was torn and the other dog's ear was torn (about a half inch tear at the base of the ear). The woman said it needed stitches, so she asked for my phone number and left. Later that night she texted me asking if Reagan's rabies shot was up to date and informed me her dog needed surgery and it was very expensive but she would be ok. I told her Reagan was up to date on her shots and asked if hers was, and that I'm glad her dog is ok. It seemed like she was hinting that I needed to pay/help pay for the vet bills. 

I know I probably did a million things wrong in the situation, but this was my first time dealing with something like this. I don't feel I should be held liable for the dog's injury since Reagan was hurt too. It wasn't like Reagan was attacking the dog and the dog was trying to get away. It kept coming at Reagan even after she stopped doing anything. Also, if it wasn't for me somehow managing to get both dogs separated without the other owner's help, the situation could have been much worse. So, would you guys offer to pay the vet bills or part of them? I don't see how the dog would have needed surgery, unless she just meant sedating it and it getting a stitch or two. I know I probably should have figured out a way to safely leave when she came up with two dogs I don't know, but unfortunately I can't change the past. Should I offer her money for the bills?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Sometimes accidents happen. If you were both otherwise following the rules (leash laws, dog park rules, etc), then I would not pay. It's like in Michigan when you get in a car accident it is no-fault, your own insurance covers the damage to your vehicle. If she had pet insurance, they should cover it.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I personally don't really think you did anything wrong except maybe not leave, but that would have been iffy too with the situation the way it was. I maybe would have asked the guy with the DA dog to mvoe so you can leave. But regardless the situation is what it is. 

Did you guys make a police report of any kind? Are the others that were there willing to be witness to the fact that her dog was the agressor? IMO if her dog was the aggressor, she should be paying for YOUR dog's injuries if anything. I would make a police report regardless and if she persists with it then you can always take her to small claims court. I personally would not pay for ANY of her dog's injuries if I was certain mine was only defending itself. If, however, you know your dog went after hers, that's an entirely different story.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

It's hard to say if either dog was at fault. One second they were playing, the next it got too rough and they were fighting. I don't blame either of the dogs. I blame the other owner for not handling the situation. The other three people there all agreed that it wasn't mine or Reagan's fault. They saw the other dog continue to jump and lunge at Reagan and saw that I had to get both dogs under control. We were both following the laws/rules, but things just happen sometimes and dogs don't get along. One of the other people there also mentioned that dog has fought with another GSD at my apartment complex before. Therefore, I really don't think it was Reagan's fault. I'm thinking I should probably be proactive and file a report before she does, because she'll probably make it out like Reagan was at fault.


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

In your shoes, I'd offer to pay 1/2 of the vet bill, but I'd want to get the amount from the vet myself. That's what I would hope someone would do if their dog injured mine. And just to be safe, I'd probably have my vet check my dog's injury as well, to be sure she didn't need meds. Good luck!


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Also, I don't think Reagan's injuries are bad enough for medical attention. It bled for a little while, but seems to be ok now thankfully. I honestly don't think her dog really needed a vet visit or stitches, but of course if you take a dog to the e-vet most of the time they are going to do something whether it's necessary or not.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

annap24 said:


> It's hard to say if either dog was at fault. One second they were playing, the next it got too rough and they were fighting. I don't blame either of the dogs. I blame the other owner for not handling the situation. The other three people there all agreed that it wasn't mine or Reagan's fault. They saw the other dog continue to jump and lunge at Reagan and saw that I had to get both dogs under control. We were both following the laws/rules, but things just happen sometimes and dogs don't get along. One of the other people there also mentioned that dog has fought with another GSD at my apartment complex before. Therefore, I really don't think it was Reagan's fault. I'm thinking I should probably be proactive and file a report before she does, because she'll probably make it out like Reagan was at fault.


I think making the report is wise. If you can get the others as witness to make a report too that would help. It's hard to say what you "should" pay because the way I see it.. things happen and if you don't blame either dog and can't really put a finger on the initiator, then that is an inherent risk you take as a dog owner when you go places withother dogs. And neither should pay for anything outside their own dog's needs. 

If you feel it was her dog that started it, I wouldn't pay a dime, not even half.. unless it's out of sheer kindness versus obligation. If my dog initiated and went after another dog, even as a freak, never usually happens moment, and the other's dog cause injury to mine and needed surgery, I would not at all expect the other person to pay for the injuries of my dog because mine was the aggressor. Aggressor just meaning the one that started it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

NO. She brought a dog aggressive dog to a park, admitted it in front of people, and then let it loose. No, I would not pay and I would send her my bill.


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## osito23 (Feb 17, 2014)

I would not pay anything. I do think it's a good idea to file a report just in case because it sounds like the other owner wants you to pay. She lets a dog aggressive dog with a previous fight history in a dog park and can't control it and then somehow it's your fault? :crazy:


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I thought she said that their other pit mix (that the man kept outside the park) was DA, not the pit mix they brought into the park. Well, now they know it is. Dog parks are no good. You can read all about my dog park adventures on threads in this forum. I stopped going. 1% negative seems to outweigh 99% positive experiences. It just stopped being worth the stress.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

counter said:


> I thought she said that their other pit mix (that the man kept outside the park) was DA, not the pit mix they brought into the park. Well, now they know it is. Dog parks are no good. You can read all about my dog park adventures on threads in this forum. I stopped going. 1% negative seems to outweigh 99% positive experiences. It just stopped being worth the stress.


I read it that way too. I think it's that a witness said the dog that was in the fight has been in another fight before that they witnessed before.. and that the one in the park seemed to be the initiator.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

counter said:


> I thought she said that their other pit mix (that the man kept outside the park) was DA, not the pit mix they brought into the park. Well, now they know it is. Dog parks are no good. You can read all about my dog park adventures on threads in this forum. I stopped going. 1% negative seems to outweigh 99% positive experiences. It just stopped being worth the stress.



You are correct. They didn't say anything about the dog they brought in, only the one they kept outside the fence. I normally don't go to dog parks. This is really just a fenced in area at our complex where we can let our dogs run and play. I never go when there is a dog there I don't know. I only go with dogs and owners that I know and trust. If I had felt safe leaving, I would have done so immediately.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

wyoung2153 said:


> I read it that way too. I think it's that a witness said the dog that was in the fight has been in another fight before that they witnessed before.. and that the one in the park seemed to be the initiator.



Yes that is correct too. After the incident, another person at the park mentioned about the previous incident with that dog and a different GSD.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Has the other owner contacted you again or directly asked you to pay?


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

wyoung2153 said:


> Has the other owner contacted you again or directly asked you to pay?



She hasn't contacted me since last night when she told me her dog would be ok but needed surgery and that it was very pricy. I replied and told her I was glad her dog would be ok. I haven't heard from her since then, and she never directly asked her to pay, but the way she acted right after the incident and in her texts it felt like she was waiting on me to offer.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I wouldn't pay either. From your description it sounds like the fight ensued because of _her_ dog, not yours, and both dogs were injured during the altercation. You pay your bills, she pays her bills, and next time you know to trust your gut and get your dog out of there if you have any reservations about other dogs.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

annap24 said:


> You are correct. They didn't say anything about the dog they brought in, only the one they kept outside the fence. I normally don't go to dog parks. This is really just a fenced in area at our complex where we can let our dogs run and play. I never go when there is a dog there I don't know. I only go with dogs and owners that I know and trust. If I had felt safe leaving, I would have done so immediately.


Sorry. I usually write back in huge paragraphs with tons of detail. My problem is that it's 2am and I'm in Korea. I usually work during the day, but tonight I switched to overnight shift on 1-hour of sleep. My eyes are fighting to stay open until 5am. You can search for my threads and I'm sure I've written all about my dog park experiences. You are wise to only go in with dogs you know that also play nicely with your GSD. Your scenario here would've been the perfect time to utilize 2 traffic leads, if you owned them. They are 12" handles, so you can more easily control 2 dogs once you asked the guy to move away from the entrance. At least that's what I would've done. Probably best that, from now on, if someone wants to bring strange dogs in, you ask them to allow you to leave first.

The last time I took Beowulf to a dog park was when 3 oversized (fat) Rottweilers and an oversized (fat) Siberian attacked him all at once after trying to mount him. I had to beat all 4 dogs away with one hand while putting the death grip on Beowulf to keep him from attacking back. I was holding him by the skin flap of his armpit. Poor guy. But that was the first thing I could grab while simultaneously fighting off 4 attacking dogs. And like your situation, the other owners just stood around and watched, and then didn't even offer an apology for their dogs mounting my boy. Their reply when I confronted them was "yeah, it happens." Then, instead of leaving, they just moved down to the other end of the park, so I left instead, furious.

And this was after back to back attacks by 2 different boxers on 2 different days. Both boxers were brought into an off leash dog park while remaining on leash for about 30 minutes. Both times I heard the owners say hesitantly (as if they knew their dog was DA) "well, let's try it" as they unleashed their hellion, and within seconds, both ran right up to my Beowulf without meeting/greeting him or any other dog, and started to attack. He was the biggest dog in the park both times, so that might've made him a target.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

annap24 said:


> She hasn't contacted me since last night when she told me her dog would be ok but needed surgery and that it was very pricy. I replied and told her I was glad her dog would be ok. I haven't heard from her since then, and she never directly asked her to pay, but the way she acted right after the incident and in her texts it felt like she was waiting on me to offer.


Exactly what Cassidy's Mom said.. and I just wouldn't communicate with her anymore.. and I definitely wouldn't offer anything to her.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

No, I would not pay. My dog Chama ripped my mom's dog's ear almost in half but her dog deserved it x 2000 -- he had been snapping at both of my dogs for days. This situation sounds like it was totally the other owner's fault and hopefully she will learn something from it. 

Btw, ears are quite easy to repair -- I butterfly bandaged the ear very carefully and then wrapped it. It healed perfectly.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> NO. She brought a dog aggressive dog to a park, admitted it in front of people, and then let it loose. No, I would not pay and I would send her my bill.


this exactly

but your only mistake


> dog park


says it all :shrug:


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

annap24 said:


> She hasn't contacted me since last night when she told me her dog would be ok but needed surgery and that it was very pricy. I replied and told her I was glad her dog would be ok. I haven't heard from her since then, and she never directly asked her to pay, but the way she acted right after the incident and in her texts it felt like she was waiting on me to offer.


it sounds like she was hoping for a big paycheck and it didnt matter who pays it
she brought a dog aggressive pit bull to a dog park 
they admitted the dog was dog aggressive
when the dogs got into a fight she did nothing 
hoping to get a bigger check!!?? 

pay nothing and let her know you'll be reporting it to a / c but also keep in mind you cannot expect to get anything if your dog needs the vet because you should have left and not let your dog play with an admittedly aggressive dog


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

my boy diesel said:


> this exactly
> 
> but your only mistake
> 
> says it all :shrug:


The one she said was dog aggressive was kept outside the park with ther husband and she brought in the other one.. who apparently turned out to be aggressive too.. it was not the dog she claimed already to have issues.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

oh 
well that part confused me 
but still 
a pit bull is a breed that should not be at dog parks even the pit bull experts agree on that :shrug:


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

annap24 said:


> It's hard to say if either dog was at fault. One second they were playing, the next it got too rough and they were fighting. I don't blame either of the dogs. I blame the other owner for not handling the situation. The other three people there all agreed that it wasn't mine or Reagan's fault. They saw the other dog continue to jump and lunge at Reagan and saw that I had to get both dogs under control. We were both following the laws/rules, but things just happen sometimes and dogs don't get along. *One of the other people there also mentioned that dog has fought with another GSD at my apartment complex before.* Therefore, I really don't think it was Reagan's fault. I'm thinking I should probably be proactive and file a report before she does, because she'll probably make it out like Reagan was at fault.


My sleepy eyes missed this part. Hope that helps you guys. She is talking about the pit that was brought in to play, and not the admitted DA pit who stayed outside the fence.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

my boy diesel said:


> oh
> well that part confused me
> but still
> a pit bull is a breed that should not be at dog parks even the pit bull experts agree on that :shrug:


I am no expert on PBT but I do agree if you have had incidents before with other dogs.. even just one, that should tell you to stay out on a DP. Lol and it confused others as well  

In the end I still agree. No payment to the other is necessary nor warranted.


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## Bridget (Apr 5, 2004)

No way would I offer to pay. Her dog started the fight, although it is possible that a "new" dog set up an unpleasant dynamic, and perhaps not entirely his fault (just to give him the benefit of the doubt). When you take your dog to a dog park, this is a risk you are taking. Dogs are dogs.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Sorry for the confusion about the two dogs! Looking back I definitely could have worded better. She didn't say anything about the one she brought into the fenced in area that got into a fight with Reagan. If she had, I would have left immediately. I made the mistake of assuming that she was aware of her dogs' temperaments since she was smart enough to leave the other DA dog outside the area. I won't let that situation happen again for sure. I was just wondering how you guys would handle the situation if in my shoes. I appreciate all the replies! I want to remain neighborly, but I don't want to offer to help with the costs in case it comes across as me somehow saying Reagan was at fault. I just worry about the effect it will have on me having Reagan at the apartment, especially if she reports it to the leasing office and makes it sound like Reagan attacked her dog.


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

It is mutual combat. Each pays their own bills. Don't pay a dime.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

I wouldn't pay anything. I would not go to this place if strange dogs are in there. I would leave this place before allowing new strange dogs to enter. Seriously check into traffic leads. They are only 12" and can easily fit into your pocket while at a dog park. If you need to flee with 2 dogs, you would (should?) be able to keep them at your side as you exit. I know what it is like to have dogs on 6' leads where they could potentially force the lead to slide through your hand/fingers and then have 6 extra feet to get closer or entangled around you or other dogs. That would never happen with the traffic lead. With a 6' lead and 2 dogs, I would usually wrap each lead round and around my hand until the dog was in close next to me. With a traffic lead, I would stick my hand through the loop so it is up around my wrist, and then grip the base of the handle closer to the clamp, as double-added protection that I won't drop the lead if the dogs do something crazy and knock me over or whatever.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

counter said:


> I wouldn't pay anything. I would not go to this place if strange dogs are in there. I would leave this place before allowing new strange dogs to enter. Seriously check into traffic leads. They are only 12" and can easily fit into your pocket while at a dog park. If you need to flee with 2 dogs, you would (should?) be able to keep them at your side as you exit. I know what it is like to have dogs on 6' leads where they could potentially force the lead to slide through your hand/fingers and then have 6 extra feet to get closer or entangled around you or other dogs. That would never happen with the traffic lead. With a 6' lead and 2 dogs, I would usually wrap each lead round and around my hand until the dog was in close next to me. With a traffic lead, I would stick my hand through the loop so it is up around my wrist, and then grip the base of the handle closer to the clamp, as double-added protection that I won't drop the lead if the dogs do something crazy and knock me over or whatever.


Thanks for the tip about the traffic leads! I will definitely look into them.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I would speak to 'the other people' that you went to the park with. Just to make sure you are clear on the series of events that took place. Sometimes we can be blind to the faults of our own dogs. If your people agree with the events as you stated, I would not feel obligated to pay a penny of the other dog's vet bills. 

I know a guy whose dog is dog aggressive. He TRULY doesn't think so. He thinks all the other dogs start the fights and that they are picking on his dog. He is blind to his own dog's faults.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Lilie said:


> I would speak to 'the other people' that you went to the park with. Just to make sure you are clear on the series of events that took place. Sometimes we can be blind to the faults of our own dogs. If your people agree with the events as you stated, I would not feel obligated to pay a penny of the other dog's vet bills.
> 
> I know a guy whose dog is dog aggressive. He TRULY doesn't think so. He thinks all the other dogs start the fights and that they are picking on his dog. He is blind to his own dog's faults.


After I spoke with the owner of the dog and the owner left to go to the vet, the other owners there all agreed that Reagan was not at fault and that I did everything I could to break it up quickly, while the other owner did nothing. They didn't think I should be held liable. I definitely agree that people can be blind to the problems of their own dogs. I asked them to be honest with me and tell me if they thought I should have done something differently and they said they would have done the same thing and wouldn't pay. I think maybe the other owner is blind to the issues of the dog, maybe because they seem small compared to the other DA dog. Maybe she honestly believes Reagan was at fault, but myself and the other witnesses all agree that's not the case.


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## counter (Feb 20, 2009)

annap24 said:


> Thanks for the tip about the traffic leads! I will definitely look into them.


I discovered them because I would walk Nara and Paw Paw simultaneously, both strong pullers at the time, and both were dog reactive due to bad dog park experiences when they were puppies. We would often run into other dogs on walks, and it would set my 2 off. I would work with them on training, but I also wanted better "last resort" control. One of the specialty pet stores sold these traffic leads. I don't think I've ever seen them at Petco or Petsmart, but I haven't needed to look in years as I already have what I need. Maybe they carry them now.

But yeah, they're basically what you see there. 12" leash handle and nothing more. I would have Paw Paw on my right side, because I am right-handed and my right arm is stronger (like Paw Paw is stronger), and Nara on my left. Never had any issues controlling them past crazy dogs after that. Usually if I see dogs coming, I'll move to the other side of the street or do whatever it takes to avoid a confrontation with strange dogs.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

All of the dog parks I have been to...which is only a few...have very clear rules about the ability of the owner to maintain control of their dog...."Dogs must be under voice control at all times"....is the exact wording of the park I used to go to all the time....I'd wager 20% of owners had voice control of their dogs. Another common rule posted is " Handlers must have their dog(s) under control at all times "....same thing...20% at best.

You intervened and stopped your dog as soon as possible....the other owner did absolutely nothing....as you cited you had to hold her dog off as well as your own. Perhaps, it could be argued that the other party was unable to maintain control of their dog or chose not to. 

I would see this as a 50/50 situation and perhaps a 60/40 situation with the 60% fault falling on the other party since they made no effort to control their dog once human intervention was required. Chances are, the wounds were inflicted on the other dog before you had control of yours....IF NOT...then 100% fault would fall on the other party as your dog was now restrained.

Dog parks can really suck at times.....I used to go all the time but there are too many idiots there. I hope most everyone else has an "idiot-free" dog park to go to....

SuperG


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

You can also get a normal lead that has a traffic handle on it, some of my friends use them.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

No, do not offer to pay vet bills. You each pay your own vet bills and you will know better next time. Hopefully she will too. If you can, get a written statement from the other people who saw the incident happen. Sign and date the statement with one witness present. That way you have it if you need it. People can be weird, better safe than sorry.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

No. I would not offer a cent. Infact this could just be a well thought out set up to get money out of you. Surgery?


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> No. I would not offer a cent. Infact this could just be a well thought out set up to get money out of you. Surgery?



I don't know what she qualifies as surgery. A half inch tear in the ear couldn't possibly need more than a couple stitches. Maybe the dog had to be sedated so she thinks it was surgery? I don't know.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Still sounds like a plan to make some cash off of you.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

annap24 said:


> After I spoke with the owner of the dog and the owner left to go to the vet, the other owners there all agreed that Reagan was not at fault and that I did everything I could to break it up quickly, while the other owner did nothing.


I would be sympathetic to her and the dog's injuries, but I wouldn't offer to pay any of her vet bills.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Did you take your dog to a vet? And if so, did your vet file a report? Did her vet file a report?


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Well guys, she finally outright asked me for money. She just sent me a picture of the vet bill: ~$300. She said: "Would you mind helping me pay for the bill? I'm only looking for half the bill (or at the very least the emergency fee). I would really appreciate it, thanks!" 

How would you respond?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I would remind her that her dog was the aggressor and that your dog was injured as well.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would respond by saying, " my dog was injured as well and the witnesses to the incident, as well as myself feel your dog, was the aggressor, if you'd like to pay 1/2 of my vet bills that would be great " That might shut her up..

I would NOT give this person a dime. Most areas/dog parks the people enter at their own risk..If you've got witnesses to her dog being the aggressor, that is a GOOD thing,


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

annap24 said:


> Well guys, she finally outright asked me for money. She just sent me a picture of the vet bill: ~$300. She said: "Would you mind helping me pay for the bill? I'm only looking for half the bill (or at the very least the emergency fee). I would really appreciate it, thanks!"
> 
> How would you respond?


I would respond by saying your dog was injured and you will be sending her a copy of the vet bill also in hopes she will cover half of yours.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I hope you took pictures of your dogs injuries just in case. Some dogs just don't get along and that is that. My female GSD plays well with pit bulls but I don't allow it if it's another female. As many pit bulls or mixes that I see at dog parks or in group settings I have never seen a pit that started a fight, which some might consider odd. So I don't think this is a breed thing but more of a temperament thing. Nobody seen who started it, but witnesses did see who cared enough to stop it. I would not pay the bill or any part of it. If this was an outright attack on your dogs part or the other dogs part then it would be different.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

annap24 said:


> Well guys, she finally outright asked me for money. She just sent me a picture of the vet bill: ~$300. She said: "Would you mind helping me pay for the bill? I'm only looking for half the bill (or at the very least the emergency fee). I would really appreciate it, thanks!"
> 
> How would you respond?



Tell her no. Your dog has never had an issue at that park. Has he? Let her know that the fight was mutual and that dog parks are implied "at your own risk" areas, and that while you feel bad her dog was injured, so was your dog. The end. 

You are not responsible for the bill. Had your dog instigated, stalked, bullied her dog, my answer would be different. But from what you said, that is not the case. However, you know your heart better. Do you feel guilty? Do you feel, truly, that your dog instigated? If you have a guilty conscience, then that should tell you something. 

Based on the one sided story, I don't feel you are liable at all.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

PAY NOTHING!!!!!!! that would be an admission of guilt. i frequent our dog park often. go look at the rules. our dog park rules clearly state, no dog aggressive dogs allowed. if one dog injures another they are automatically banned.


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## JoeyG (Nov 17, 2013)

No way do you owe anything. She asked how your dog is doing or if she can help you out?


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

gsdsar said:


> Tell her no. Your dog has never had an issue at that park. Has he? Let her know that the fight was mutual and that dog parks are implied "at your own risk" areas, and that while you feel bad her dog was injured, so was your dog. The end.
> 
> You are not responsible for the bill. Had your dog instigated, stalked, bullied her dog, my answer would be different. But from what you said, that is not the case. However, you know your heart better. *Do you feel guilty? Do you feel, truly, that your dog instigated? If you have a guilty conscience, then that should tell you something. *
> 
> Based on the one sided story, I don't feel you are liable at all.


I know you're just proposing questions to the OP, but I think some people can feel "guilty" just because the dog is injured and requires medical attention while their own is relatively unscathed. Had this happen to me, with objective witnesses absolving my dog from blame as well, You still feel bad which can come across as guilt...... Or something along those lines.


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## Brandon_kelley (Jan 5, 2014)

From a legal standpoint, she is completely at fault like the previous person said... She brought a dog aggressive dog to a dog park and knowingly let him off leash. There is no way she would win in a small claims court so you are better of go and make your own report as a fallback plan if she decided to pursue it further. 

Short answer: she was negligent to the fact that she was knowingly bringing a dangerous situation into a public setting= 100 percent at fault


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Deep down do you think your dog started it? 

Even if there was a new dog, and an aggressive dog on the other side of the fence, if your dog was the first to get too rough, then pay the bill. All of it. Only you know, deep down, which dog actually crossed the line. You live there, and you will be one of the people who have issues with trying to rent while owning a formidable dog. Rather than allowing a full-scale investigation and getting the apartment management involved, well, $300 may be better than all of that. 

Remember too that witnesses will often say to your face what you want to hear, but if they are contacted later, while you aren't there, they may say it how they saw it. 

If you really, truly believe that her dog was the one that started the ruckus -- the dog in the park with yours, then don't pay, and cover your butt in all the ways previously mentioned.

My guess is that the pitt owner feels your dog was the aggressor and if your dog was, than asking for you to pay, or to pay half, is actually a courtesy, rather than going the whole nine yards and informing the landlords and animal control.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I say you send her a quote for your vet fees, if she continues.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

my boy diesel said:


> it sounds like she was hoping for a big paycheck and it didnt matter who pays it


This was my first (pessimistic, I suppose) thought when I read this. DO NOT PAY or OFFER TO PAY ANYTHING. I really dislike irresponsible pet parents (like the pit-mix parents). I think you did everything right; I wouldn't have wanted to cross an aggressive dog when leaving a park... Stories like yours really deters me from ever even thinking of going to a dog park. 

I hope your pup recovers well :hug:


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> Deep down do you think your dog started it?


i am sorry but it is a dog park
it does not matter who started it
if an owner is worried about their dog getting injured they should not go there
both dogs were injured so imo neither are obligated to pay each other anything
apartment or not


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

my boy diesel said:


> i am sorry but it is a dog park
> it does not matter who started it
> if an owner is worried about their dog getting injured they should not go there
> both dogs were injured so imo neither are obligated to pay each other anything
> apartment or not


So, if you had a dog in a park, minding its own business, and someone came in with 2 dogs they could not control, they rush over to your dog, knock it down, tare its throat, and chew him up badly, and in the process your dog managed to get a tooth into an ear or nose, you think that now they shouldn't pay at all for your dog's injuries? Really?

There is a certain amount of risk when you turn your dogs loose with dogs you don't know. But, would we be even having this conversation if the other dog was a Golden Retriever? Let's rewind, lets say a couple with a GR and a JRT, come to the park and one of them stays out with the JRT because he isn't good with other dogs. The GR is playing with your shepherd, and all the sudden they get into a fight. Now the GR needed surgery and your dog has superficial wounds. A friend of an acquaintance says the GR has fought with other dogs. And you dog park buddies all tell you it wasn't your fault. 

Only the GR owner thinks you should pay for part of the vet bill seeing how your dog ATE her dog. I think that maybe it does matter which dog crossed that line, and started biting to the point of drawing blood. Trust me that a pit bull, when they fight can do a lot of damage quick. And also, that a GSD is VERY likely to be the bully, the aggressor with a new dog in the park. And when things are amped up, aggressive dog behind the fence, dogs running, leaping, barking, etc, a GSD is very likely to play Fun Police. 

I am asking the GSD owner to just think about it, and if they, deep down feel that it was their dog's fault, then they should probably do something for the other owner/dog.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

selzer said:


> So, if you had a dog in a park, minding its own business, and someone came in with 2 dogs they could not control, they rush over to your dog, knock it down, tare its throat, and chew him up badly, and in the process your dog managed to get a tooth into an ear or nose, you think that now they shouldn't pay at all for your dog's injuries? Really?
> 
> There is a certain amount of risk when you turn your dogs loose with dogs you don't know. But, would we be even having this conversation if the other dog was a Golden Retriever? Let's rewind, lets say a couple with a GR and a JRT, come to the park and one of them stays out with the JRT because he isn't good with other dogs. The GR is playing with your shepherd, and all the sudden they get into a fight. Now the GR needed surgery and your dog has superficial wounds. A friend of an acquaintance says the GR has fought with other dogs. And you dog park buddies all tell you it wasn't your fault.
> 
> ...



Believe me, I'm not being biased because the dog is a pit mix if that's what you're implying about the GR scenario. I don't believe on discrimination based on breed. I told the breed to give a better idea of the size of the dog. Also, Reagan didn't EAT her. Her ear had a small 1/2 inch tear. Ears tear pretty easily. 

Also yes GSDs can play rough, which is why I'm selective about who I let my dogs play with. I also monitor them closely and correct any bullying behavior. When the other dog ran up to Reagan, it jumped up and put its paws on her shoulders and was biting at her face. My guess is Reagan probably issued a warning snap or growl and the other dog didn't accept that very well and the fight started. Reagan plays very well with other dogs and isn't reactive. A small papillon had snapped at her earlier that day because she was sniffing it and it didn't like her being so close and she just backed off. She's not usually quick to react, which is why I don't believe she was at fault. In all honesty the tear may have been my fault as I was trying to separate them. I feel bad for what happened, but I don't feel guilty as if it were my/Reagan's fault. Out of kindness I would love to pay for part of the bill, but I worry that will make it seem like I'm admitting guilt. 

Also, to the earlier person who asked, she hasn't once asked if Reagan was hurt or if she's ok or offered to pay her vet bills.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I agree with Selzer. 

Sometimes we have do what is right morally and not legally. 

People should not hide behind the law to avoid things they are morally responsible for. 

If the OP thinks her dog was the instigator, then, based on the morals my mom raised me with, she should be willing to pay some of the bill. 

If the OP does not believe that her dog was the instigator, then she is not responsible. 

But that's a moral belief. Legally, she is not responsible at all.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

My answer is NO.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Brandon_kelley said:


> From a legal standpoint, she is completely at fault like the previous person said... She brought a dog aggressive dog to a dog park and knowingly let him off leash. There is no way she would win in a small claims court so you are better of go and make your own report as a fallback plan if she decided to pursue it further.
> 
> Short answer: she was negligent to the fact that she was knowingly bringing a dangerous situation into a public setting= 100 percent at fault


Where did the OP state the dog was dog aggressive? The OP has stated a couple times the DA dog was not in the fenced in area.


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## Brandon_kelley (Jan 5, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Where did the OP state the dog was dog aggressive? The OP has stated a couple times the DA dog was not in the fenced in area.



Fourth sentence on the original post...


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Brandon_kelley said:


> Fourth sentence on the original post...



Read the sentence right after that. The one the owner said was dog aggressive was never brought in.


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## Brandon_kelley (Jan 5, 2014)

Oh okay. I didn't read it right, when I saw you say "The woman brought the other dog into the park" I thought the one dog who wasn't dog aggressive was already inside the park and now she is bringing the other one in the park.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Stuff happens at dog parks...it is the wild wild west as far as I'm concerned. You should not pay a dime.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

eddie1976E said:


> Stuff happens at dog parks...it is the wild wild west as far as I'm concerned. You should not pay a dime.


Then maybe they can be renamed OK CORRAL...


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> I am asking the GSD owner to just think about it, and if they, deep down feel that it was their dog's fault, then they should probably do something for the other owner/dog.


the dogs were playing and then started fighting
witnesses to the event say the ops dog is not at fault
as near as i am concerned dogs parks are 'no fault" and an equal risk to all involved
if i bring my dog there and it gets killed that is a risk i took by entering

if this is not the case then dog parks are gonna be rife with gold mine seekers 
and that is what i believe this case is



eddie1976E said:


> Stuff happens at dog parks...it is the wild wild west as far as I'm concerned. You should not pay a dime.


exactly that! :crazy:


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

my boy diesel said:


> the dogs were playing and then started fighting
> witnesses to the event say the ops dog is not at fault
> as near as i am concerned dogs parks are 'no fault" and an equal risk to all involved
> if i bring my dog there and it gets killed that is a risk i took by entering
> ...


I don't go. But for people living in the city, who choose to train their dogs to run together with other dogs, having an unfamiliar dog come in and then start a fight would be upsetting, and I think that were it to happen that way, then someone maybe should reimburse the victim. 

The way this is written, neither dog seems to be the victim nor the perpetrator. Evenso, when we tell the tale, sometimes we are a little biased for our dog or against another dog. I think that is just human nature. We tend to minimize our own critter's negative contribution, either in our minds or in our telling. Usually if the itch is there to do something more, though it may be there for a reason. 

For those of us who live in the suburbs or in the country, our dogs can go for walks or runs with us, with our other dogs, romp around in our back yard, and a trip to the park or dog park, might be the wild west, like going to a park or an amusement park with kids, we do it once or twice a year maybe, or even a couple of times a month. And while we are there the dog is amped up (doesn't do this every day) and is having complete doggy fun. 

I think that people who live in cities, in apartment complexes, in the concrete jungle, where the dog is always on lead, the park may be viewed, not so much as the wild west, but as a necessary outlet for unused energy, exercise, release. And people in such places have a certain etiquette, and expectations for other owners' and dogs' behavior. And while we can only change our own behavior, there are ways that groups of people can help other assimilate to how their park runs. In rural Nebraska the dog park may be the wild west, where as in Manhatten, it may be strictly governed by written and unwritten rules.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

my boy diesel said:


> the dogs were playing and then started fighting
> witnesses to the event say the ops dog is not at fault
> as near as i am concerned dogs parks are 'no fault" and an equal risk to all involved
> if i bring my dog there and it gets killed that is a risk i took by entering
> ...


I don't think the other owner is trying to make money . One can easily call the vet and/or get a copy of the bill to prove it one way or the other. When my pup was attacked at the dog park I absolutely went for every penny owed on the bill. There was not even a question about it. I wasn't playing games and I had at least 10 witnesses that seen it from beginning to end. In this case no one really saw it start, but I would never rule out a GSD being an instigator, whether that is by correction because the other dog didn't do or did do something they did or didn't like. The more post I read on here the more I'm leaning toward some kind of compensation. Mainly because if a pit or pit mix gets into it with another dog and it's the aggressor, the other dog ends up with the stitches . I know for a fact that my female GSD will correct a dog that comes at her like the OP explained, because I know that I just don't take the chance period. I would feel partially to blame if I knew this and took her somewhere where the chances of that happening were good, for that reason I just don't allow the interaction. I don't as most people don't want to see any dogs hurt.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

from what I've read this was not a "dog park", it was an area in their complex that owners could bring their dogs to.

I would think or hope, they have some rules/regs posted but if they don't, oh well. 

IF I felt "my" dog started it, yes I would offer to pay full or half, depending on the circumstances. If I felt and had witnesses that said "no my dog was not the aggressor", then NO I would not pay. 

If my dog started something like this, I would be beyond mortified and more than willing to pay.

I guess what rubs me the wrong way, is the other owner just 'stood' there, The OP could have been seriously hurt herself, breaking it up. 

Hope the OP returns and tells us how things went.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

annap24 said:


> It's hard to say if either dog was at fault. One second they were playing, the next it got too rough and they were fighting. I don't blame either of the dogs. *I blame the other owner for not handling the situation. *The other three people there all agreed that it wasn't mine or Reagan's fault. They saw the other dog continue to jump and lunge at Reagan and saw that I had to get both dogs under control. We were both following the laws/rules, but things just happen sometimes and dogs don't get along. *One of the other people there also mentioned that dog has fought with another GSD at my apartment complex before.* Therefore, I really don't think it was Reagan's fault. I'm thinking I should probably be proactive and file a report before she does, because she'll probably make it out like Reagan was at fault.


If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that the dog Reagan had the fight with had another fight with a GSD at an earlier time ... you're not talking about the dog aggressive dog being held outside the fence? IMHO you should file a report. And I personally wouldn't pay, especially since this is the dog's 2nd altercation in the park.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

arycrest said:


> If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that the dog Reagan had the fight with had another fight with a GSD at an earlier time ... you're not talking about the dog aggressive dog being held outside the fence? IMHO you should file a report. And I personally wouldn't pay, especially since this is the dog's 2nd altercation in the park.



You are correct. The dog that fought with Reagan has apparently fought with another GSD before. 

As for everyone else, I try really hard to do the best I can for my dogs. I feel I am much more responsible than the average pet owner. If I honestly believed Reagan had started it, I would be more than happy to pay. I also know that owners can gloss over the negatives of their dogs. The account I'm giving is exactly the same story the other witnesses described. One of them even mentioned how glazed over the other dog's eyes were as it continued to lunge at Reagan. I could have very easily gotten hurt when I reached to grab it as it was lunging, but I was out of options. If the tables were turned and the woman had grabbed her dog as reagan continued to attack, I would be happy to pay for any vet bills. But that isn't what happened. I replied to the text and explained that I didn't believe myself or Reagan were at fault, and that if it wasn't for me stepping in and grabbing BOTH dogs, it could have been a lot worse. 


As far as the whole dog park debate goes, if anyone has any other suggestions please share. I live in an apartment, so I try to get my dogs out to run multiple times a day. I try to go only with people/dogs I trust at times when there are usually no other dogs. If another dog enters, I usually leave, but didn't feel safe doing so the other night with the DA dog right outside the gate. I walk my dogs multiple times a day, but as most of you guys know, dogs need to run. I used to take my dogs to the tennis courts where I could be sure no one would bother us, but was advised against it due to people on here mentioning the surface was too hard. I feel like I'm out of options.


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Also sorry if that last post sounded harsh. It's just so frustrating because I try really hard to do what's best for my dogs but it's hard to figure out what is best.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

How sad. Perhaps the other dog's owner thought that you stepping in to break it up was an admission of guilt? 

I don't think I would pay anything in this case. But I'm not there, I was not involved. So it is just hypothetical on my part. (and that's important). 

Hindsight being so fine, what I'd think of doing should someone "new" appear the next time my "group" is out together, I would ask them to wait before using the area.

This is very sad additionally because it might threaten the living situation for dogs. (Is the landlord going to be happy with these issues?)


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## annap24 (Jul 22, 2014)

Also, I forgot to mention I saw the woman at the fenced in area today with both dogs. Less than 48 hours after the incident. So I feel like the dog couldn't have been hurt that badly.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

arycrest said:


> If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that the dog Reagan had the fight with had another fight with a GSD at an earlier time ... you're not talking about the dog aggressive dog being held outside the fence? IMHO you should file a report. And I personally wouldn't pay, especially since this is the dog's 2nd altercation in the park.


Only, you have to be careful. Especially with pits and pit mixes, (and sometimes shepherds), there is always some out there willing to tell you how that dog did this or that, whether or not it is true. I guess, I just don't necessarily want to take an action due to something someone told me. 

I think your response was good. And I hope that is the end of it: My dog was injured too. I don't think my dog was the instigator. And if I didn't step in to stop both dogs, there would have been more damage -- why didn't you help with that???


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Can you report it to the complex owners/management? I would, if this is the dogs 2nd offense, then THAT one should be on the outside of the area when other dogs are around as well..


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

annap24 said:


> Also, I forgot to mention I saw the woman at the fenced in area today with both dogs. Less than 48 hours after the incident. So I feel like the dog couldn't have been hurt that badly.


Guess you didn't pay... You should report this incident to the apartment complex manager. Maybe the next time there will be more damage, no one there to stop it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

only read first and last pages....

1. I HATE dog parks. Dangerous places. So many people are so "dog blind" to their own training (lack of) and dog behavior; stupid; inconsiderate; idiots...well you get the idea!

2. The dogs were playing - then escalated into a fight...both with injuries. Each owner should - AT THIS POINT!! - accept responsibility for their own vet bills!

3. Info that this dog has attacked a GSD PREVIOUSLY changes the game....the other owner should be held responsible for her dog's behavior. That you did not incur vet bills is because of your own (possibly foolhardy! you could have been badly hurt yourself! but as no one here saw the fight, it is hard to make any call on wisdom of your actions) actions is just lucky for her.

4. From here on, if you must use the dog park area for exercise - and you are alone there, I would suggest that you leash up your dogs the minute she or any unknown dogs appear and politely ask them to wait until you get yours out of the area. Nothing else, no explanations...just get your dogs and get out.

5. NO WAY in the proverbial underworld would I consider giving her a DIME - her dog has a history of fighting there and she was totally irresponsible to allow the dog to play without informing you of that history.

Lee


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Her dog had a history of fighting there IF the person who told her that was correct. 

The thing is, now YOUR dog has a history of fighting. So, if there is another incident, of ANY magnitude, with ANY dog, people will be encouraging the other dog's owner to lynch you.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> Her dog had a history of fighting there IF the person who told her that was correct.
> 
> The thing is, now YOUR dog has a history of fighting. So, if there is another incident, of ANY magnitude, with ANY dog, people will be encouraging the other dog's owner to lynch you.


I think I agree with this.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Ann, is there any way to have that area 'booked'.. Ask the landlord if this is possible. This way you and your dog's friends could book an hour on certain days, and no strangers can enter. I realize it may be a nightmare, but you and Regan will be safe.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm not a lawyer and maybe somebody with more knowledge of law could comment, but if you accept responsibility and pay her then could she end up suing you for pain and suffering or something similar? Is that admitting fault? I don't think I would send any money without checking with my lawyer.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

I'm taking this thread as a good reminder that dog parks aren't a great idea. My husband wants to try one (on off times and we leave if we see another dog approaching), and I had a visceral reaction of discomfort with the risk when he suggested it.

PuppyGirl has made some friends in the neighborhood, and we've talked about play dates. I think that's going to be the alternative I'll stick with.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

selzer said:


> I don't go. But for people living in the city, who choose to train their dogs to run together with other dogs, having an unfamiliar dog come in and then start a fight would be upsetting, and I think that were it to happen that way, then someone maybe should reimburse the victim.
> 
> The way this is written, neither dog seems to be the victim nor the perpetrator. Evenso, when we tell the tale, sometimes we are a little biased for our dog or against another dog. I think that is just human nature. We tend to minimize our own critter's negative contribution, either in our minds or in our telling. Usually if the itch is there to do something more, though it may be there for a reason.
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%


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