# Weak bite



## Pamis (Apr 18, 2013)

Hello.
I m Pamis and I have a female GSD 12 months old which I m training for mondioring. She has very good prey and food drives. The problem which I can not solve for days of training is the weak bite she has in the tug. Traying to work the aport exersice she brings the tug back to me and spit it away, or she keep it in her mouth so weak that is very easy to take it without any commant. I think that she doesn t claim the tug too much. Do you have any anser in my problem.

Thanks


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

might be handler conflict where she does not want to challenge you for the tug, you need to build possession in her, and build her trust in you, Lance Collins has some good techniques but i do not have enough expertise to relate them second-hand and don't want to give bad advice.

what is she like if someone else holds the tug not you. 

how often did you make her out in her earlier deveopment.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

I don't 100% understand your question so I'm going to give a couple suggestions. 

1) If she comes back to you with the tug try holding her under the chin and just pet her calmly. If the tug falls out she loses it. Kick it back to decoy or use one of you hands and start the game over again. 

2) If it's just you playing tug with your dog then build drive for the tug. Move it around in a matter that makes the dog really want it. Once dog is on the bite really get into it. Use some acting skills and every movement of the dog over exaggerate yourself. I.E. dog torques head you throw your body in the direction. The dog will begin to think it did it. You can also pull the tug in an upward motion for a second and if it comes out of the dogs mouth it loses it and has to work for it all over again. Eventually you should be able to hang dog using the tug. Once the grip is how you like it, let the dog win.


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## Dante's mom (Nov 25, 2012)

Another thought maybe the tug. Dante started with a jute rag and still likes that and so for his first tug I got a jute one. He did the same thing you are describing and so at his trainers we tried different ones. Right now he is using a leather one. I hope this helps.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Dante's mom said:


> Another thought maybe the tug. Dante started with a jute rag and still likes that and so for his first tug I got a jute one. He did the same thing you are describing and so at his trainers we tried different ones. Right now he is using a leather one. I hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


YES! I knew I had a third point then I lost my train of thought. Try going to something softer.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

She might be too young to be looking for this outcome.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

cliffson1 said:


> She might be too young to be looking for this outcome.


This is what I am thinking. Some dogs mature slower than others. Some dogs are alligators from very young ages. Mine was not. He did not really start getting strong until about 15 months.


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## Pamis (Apr 18, 2013)

Thak you for your answers. I tried already the most of these teqniques. The big question is that she bites like an alligator in the suit. Also she is chasing the tug while this is in motion like crazy. When she bites the tug can hold it in her mouth for a long time while this is in motion but when I hold it still she spit it away.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Are you outing her a lot?

When you grab a toy or tug, do you do a lot of outing?

This was an issue I had with my male. He did not have a great bite (genetics) to begin with and so when I started working on outing the tug or toy, I over did it. I was told to go back to basics, stop outing him and it worked.


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## Pamis (Apr 18, 2013)

What do you mean "outing" ?


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Pamis said:


> What do you mean "outing" ?


The "out" command to release the tug or other object that she is holding in her mouth.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I mention this because this is how I teach my young dogs to out the tug or toy. The toy stops moving - they let go - we re-engage play. I usually hold the tug at my side while it is not in motion until the young dogs drops it or loosens the grip. Then it is game on again. That is the foundation of outing the tug for us. Always worked with my pups and young dogs. Unless you have a shark like my Zefra who doesn't care if it's in play or not and will hold on for life. 

But if you are only having issues while you are holding the tug, then my first thought was are you asking for an 'out' a lot while playing/rewarding with the dog?


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## Pamis (Apr 18, 2013)

Yes I m using the "out" command about 4-5 times in a 10 minutes play with tug.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Also give her bones to strengthen her jaw muscles regularly. If your puppy had some bad experience at the beginning even once (say, your play was too vigorous and caused some painful sensations in her mouth without you noticing it) she might have become too cautious to hold the rope longer. Beef vertebras or pork ribs will keep her teeth clean and healthy, will brush mucus from the guts as well as encourage her to behave as a predator..


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## ChunksDad (Jan 6, 2014)

Pamis... I have a couple of quick question for you... How much drive for the tug have you built up in your dog? What else does she play with and how much access to other things to occupy her does she have?
I found with my female's pup we kept in her litter that he was ok with playing with stuff but he had so many things and his mother to play with that it was ok with him to let go of it... We (my trainer and I) took every thing away from him except mother... Any toys he was had access to play with were gone. He was tied to the flirt pole and teased every time I went to work him out for protection and obedience. He was never allowed to have any bites or toys for anytype of play/work at all for 2-3 weeks. We then started to allow him to bite and keep the sleeve after he did his bites with out any outing until much later in his training. (3 months or so) He was so hungry for his tug after the 2-3 weeks that it is a life and death battle now for the tug, ball on a tie or the sleeve. My trainer says that he has an incredible bite now and rarely misses. He still gets teased and responds to our firing him up before we go on the field for protection work. (Kind of like shaking a soda can before you open it...) Chunk is a really mellow dog who most trainers would have said he doesn't "have it" to do protection but with a little work he has turned out to be incredible. His trainer was patient, worked the right angles and brought out the best in his genetic.. People who train with us, PP, Sch, K9 etc are all amazed at the transformation..
Be patient, go slowly to develope the right drives, work with a good trainer and make it fun for the dog... Chunk wins alot but he has to work at it nothing's free.. and he loves it, he is so excited when he figures out where he is going...
Best of luck, don't give up
Phil


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## ChunksDad (Jan 6, 2014)

Pamis.. a couple more things, sorry I forgot.. The first few weeks of Chunk being allowed to bite much attention was paid to keeping the bite and not letting him let go.. The aus command was never used, he was hung up until he released his grip.. and the released sleeve was kicked back to the trainer. the first week or so he hung on until we saw his jaws shaking. He slowly over a few weeks developed a hard strong bite. 
phil


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what is the dogs overall confidence level?


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm interested in this thread as well because my dog does the same thing. He doesn't need a bite for training, but playing tug with him is no fun because he doesn't try hard enough. Any real attempt to pull on my end and he let's go. I know he enjoys the game because he initiates it by bringing me his rope, and continues to place it back in my hand after I let him win. 

My puppy is probably just too young as a couple of you have said.

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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Curtis how old is your puppy and what type of toy are you using? I find that some young puppies prefer something softer, like a piece of shammy, a dish towel, a fleece tug, or one of those "unstuffed" animal toys (like a fake animal hide). Also if the dog is not real into tugging, you may need more distance, like a longer toy or even tie it on a string. Don't be frontal and leaning over the dog. If the dog is grunting and tugging, let him pull you forward like he's "winning" (however if this is going to be a sport dog, I make sure the grip is full first, if not then it doesn't matter). Sometimes I get on my knees and turn sideways to the puppy and let him tug me so I fall on my stomach. If he's tugging hard with a good grip, I let him "win" the tug and I clap like an idiot and call him back for more (I like to encourage the dog bringing the toy back and pushing it into me for more).


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I dunno. You never know with that sort of thing without seeing the dog and evaluating in person. If they get weak with the tug but hit the pillow or leg sleeve like an alligator it might just be you didnt build drive for the tug or weakened it somehow. Perhaps by putting too much control on the game too early.

Could just be the dog isnt cut out for the job.

When good dogs are 7 or 8 weeks old they would bite and clamp and you could pick them off the ground and theyd fall asleep on the bite before they let it go. You dont really train that. Dog has it or it doesnt. When you see the benchmark for a great dog and then put an ok one a long side them its pretty clear where the differences are. 

For mondio especially at the 2 and 3 you need a dog that bites with an edge. They will put accessories and obstacles in that dogs way and if it isnt fully committed and wants the bite bad they will make it fail.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I wouldnt consider my dog zebu a great dog for mondio bitework and his tug drive isnt that great but even then if he gets the tug and i dont out him i can swing him around like a helicopter and he wont let go and has been like that since he was a little guy. Hes almost a year old now.


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

Liesje, he is 10 months old. I do sit or get on the floor to play with him. I also over exaggerate to get his drive going a little and once he gives a solid effort, I let him win. But pull hard, he let's go. It a large long braided rope with knots. So maybe I need something softer like you've suggested. 

Now that you mention it, he is a nut with the toy on the flirt pole and will not let go unless I tell him to. That is an unstuffed cloth animal and he's a nut job with it! I'll try leather. 

Baillif, he's not for sport, and so I'm sure I've done much wrong in the way of bite development. Heck, I didn't even know there was such a thing as bite work. I just want to have fun engaging with my dog since he loves that rope and initiates play. 

Thank you both for replying to my hijack  

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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I just asked b/c I find that those braided ropes for dogs are always my dogs' LEAST favorite toys, and my dogs LOVE to tug and tug hard. I don't actually use them for tugging with my dog, though we have a few that they carry around.


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## Curtis (Jun 9, 2013)

You were right, it's the material. Yesterday evening while playing with the flirt pole, I tested him out. He's a maniac when I bring it out and after he caught the toy, instead of telling him to drop it, I played tug. He would not let it go. I hung the ~80lb guy in the air by the toy and he didn't let go! 

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