# RAW lady said... then the vet said...



## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I went out and found a nearby RAW store. She sells all sorts of branded pre-packaged raw foods, and I voiced my concerns to her about his face itching, feet biting, loose stool, and smell. So she hooked me up with Vital Essentials patties for 4 days (2 patties each meal, really limited ingredients below). I inquired about supplementing or switching to BARF as well, she said to "use human grade food (uh? what grocer sells sub-human grade meat?), stay away from Shoprite and the like" 

That last bit made no sense to me and sounded like a sales pitch to get more product sold. She also suggested NO TREATS and NO KIBBLE. Well great.

Then I saw my vet later in the day, who is all for raw feeding, she said if I am really concerned, she would prescribe kibble, but seriously the kibble (Natural Balance) is fine. No thanks to prescription. "Okay, then you should really use Nature's Variety pre-packaged raw, or at least dry."

Whatever. Now I'm really confused. Is this all okay for a 7 month old? I still have plenty of kibble left, but I really want to see if the raw helps with all his supposed problems, he's going to be getting meaty bones at some point soon as well. If all else fails, I was going to switch to NV Instinct anyway, or maybe supplement with it.

Any ideas?

Ingredients: Beef, beef tripe, beef lung, ground beef bone, beef liver, beef heart, beef kidney, beef blood, beef fat, herring oil (a natural source of vitamin D), d-alpha tocopherol, mixed tocopherols, (a natural antioxidant), natural vitamin E. Manufacturer: Vital Essential


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Generally, if you want to rule out a food allergy, you would feed one protein source. No treats or anything else.... for 4-6 weeks is what I was taught.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

One protein source for sure and if you are wanting to know if the raw really helps his issues then I would suggest truly doing all raw, nothing but raw for a couple of weeks. If it's more about the limited ingredient diet then as long as the kibble or treats stick with the limited ingredients I don't know that it would be an issue. 

On a side note, you'd be surprised how many people I've sold raw to want to supplement with their expired meat or subpar product or the Milkbones their dogs can't live without. So I'd give the sales lady a little credit... not everyone uses common sense when it comes to their dogs.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I think the RAW lady meant not to give anything but the raw so you can rule out food a allergy. You need to be on the limited diet for about 4 months before you will see a significant change (if at all). I had done this recently with a dog, and it did take that amount of time to see a full change. Zukes treats are okay. They have different formulas depending on the protein source you are using. Read the ingredients.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Stick to raw and only raw for about 3 weeks; you should see improvement. If not, you may need to try another type of protein (chicken or fish). If you still see no improvement, then the issues probably aren't diet-related, so you can go back to kibble if you prefer. But raw is a much better diet IMO, especially pre-packaged raw that is already balanced; adding supplements is unnecessary, but you can certainly add beef bones and such from the grocery store. 

I don't know that it's bad to feed "expired" meat, freezer burned meat, or what have you. Whenever I have meat that's gone a little "off", I feed it to my dogs. Never had a problem.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

sashadog said:


> On a side note, you'd be surprised how many people I've sold raw to want to supplement with their expired meat or subpar product or the Milkbones their dogs can't live without. So I'd give the sales lady a little credit... not everyone uses common sense when it comes to their dogs.


Actually, expired meat is fine for dogs.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Huh... I guess I just always assumed that when people told me to only feed human grade food that expired meat would not qualify. Freezer burned seems different but straight up expired always made me nervous... although in all reality, given what my dogs eat sometimes in the mountains or out on "adventures" I guess I shouldn't worry about a little expired meat


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Freezer burned seems different but straight up expired always made me nervous...


The things I've fed to my dogs!!

Chicken that smelled so bad it burned my eyes and had a green color to it.

Beef heart that I left outside to defrost - which it did ... then froze again ... the defrosted ... then had crows pecking at it before it froze again and then defrosted and THEN I cut it up and bagged it.

Dogs eat their own waste, other animals waste and all sorts of other very gross things.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

jeliya said:


> she said to "use human grade food (uh? what grocer sells sub-human grade meat?), stay away from Shoprite and the like"


Lots of butchers do actually, and market it specifically for dog food.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

boooooooo! He's had some major diarrhea since the switch! Even Tylan powder isn't helping. 

The patties haven't been totally defrosted when mealtime hits, I even let them out the fridge 1 hour prior, and even on top of the steamy coffee maker. So I have been running the frozen chunks under hot water. Could that have anything to do with it? His treats have been switched to freeze dried green tripe, so I don't think that would be the issue.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Dogs eat their own waste, other animals waste and all sorts of other very gross things.


Yep! Not to mention dead rotting things they dig up!

As to the diarrhea... sometimes it happens when you switch food, no matter what you switch to. First I'd try warming up the meat at least to room temp, but if the diarrhea continues, I'd switch to another type of protein.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Has he had tripe before? And how much are you giving him? My girls cannot handle tripe whatsoever and it gives all three of them almost instant runs  I don't know if it's just too rich or what but maybe try cutting back the treats and only feeding the raw for a couple days?


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## HeyJude (Feb 2, 2011)

jeliya said:


> boooooooo! He's had some major diarrhea since the switch! Even Tylan powder isn't helping.
> 
> The patties haven't been totally defrosted when mealtime hits, I even let them out the fridge 1 hour prior, and even on top of the steamy coffee maker. So I have been running the frozen chunks under hot water. Could that have anything to do with it? His treats have been switched to freeze dried green tripe, so I don't think that would be the issue.


I'm no expert, (only been feeding raw for a few weeks),. but Harley had cannon butt for a good week before he got rid of all the kibble in his system. Give it a few days. If he still has cannon butt, put him on only chicken, it may be he is allergic to beef?, or maybe there is too much in the mix for his body to digest. I started out with cheap leg quarters from the grocery store, he gets the whole thing, bones, skin and all. I was so worried I called the gal from our co-op about 20 times the first few days. He is fine now, and I hope in the near future he will put on some weight. Give it time, his body is still toxic from the kibble. Good luck, you will love it when everything comes together and you watch your beloved dog get healthy again. 
Oh, and take the food out the night before, stick it in the microwave (don't turn it on, so the dog doesn't get to it) and feed it in the morning. I would think running it under water can't be too good for the nutrients.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I went back, they said to wait it out as well, and that it's "highly unlikely he is allergic to beef". I'm taking their word for it, and got another sleeve of patties; he's getting 2 pounds of meat a day (2 patties per meal). He has had tripe before - freeze dried green tripe - with his kibble meals. He loves it. But I'm unsure of what gives him the runs, in general, which is the main reason I am switching.

He's on the lean side and has been a very active puppy this week that I decided to switch, I think that's less than what he needs so I am now supplementing with a marrow bone or an ounce or 2 of beef log (ingr: beef heart, beef liver, ground beef bone). Hopefully, soon, I can start throwing veggies in there to fill him up. He is literally always hungry...

Sadly, there are no real butchers in this area. Boooooo again, I guess it's pre-made raw for now. Now if I can figure out what to do with 30pounds of kibble!


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