# Neutered "boyfriend" to help with in-season female's dog reactivity?



## Susnelda (Aug 23, 2010)

Hello,
Our Suzie, 16 mths. old, just came into her second heat 2 weeks ago. I wasn't very thrilled about it, but then got the idea that this might help her overcome her dog reactivity issues.
I always wanted her to become friends with our neighbour's neutered pitbull type dog. He is young and seems sweet, but is large and muscular, with powerful jaws, and I am afraid that he could make mincemeat of Suzie if he reacted badly to her initial aggression. I know that females in heat are irresistible to intact males. Would a neutered male react similarly? How would the female perceive him?
Suzie played enthusiastically with an elderly, laid-back male GSD a few months ago, after some initial aggression on her part. I am hoping for the same with our neighbour dog, Boris, and that they could remain friends after Suzie is out of heat/ spayed. 
What is your take on this? I thought we could introduce them on leash off property, through parallel walking, rear sniffing, etc., and if all goes OK, let them off leash in our enclosed yard.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

First off, females don't always accept intact males. They will only accept a male when they are ready to be mated, otherwise, boys better BACK OFF. 

I've only ever been around one intact female with a neutered male. It was when our lab that we found off the streets came into heat for the first time she was with us. My mom's friend has a neutered white GSD. It's a good thing he was neutered, because he tied with her. They figured hey, he's neutered, just let 'em go at it. 

However, we have a female pit bull (spayed). She's fine and hunky-dory with everyone *until *they show aggression toward her. That's a BIG until, because as soon as they show aggression, she gives it right back 100x worse.
If it wasn't for our lab displaying aggression toward her first, they probably never would have had any issues. However, since our lab insists on trying to 'take-on' Gracie, they have to be kept separate at all times.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

My own experience with having a "friend" cure dog reactivity is the dog can develop a "friendship" with another dog who is in their inner circle but still the dog is reactive to strange dogs. I do not believe it will fix anything.

Introducing during heat is a great way to get someone all tore up.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

If she is dog aggressive/reactive she is likely to strongly dislike unwanted advances. And if he is a pit bull there is no way of knowing how he will react to her aggression. If you ask me it is looking for trouble. Why were you not thrilled about her going into heat?


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

When my female would come into heat.....my neutered male would act like an idiot.

He would not leave her alone for one minute. He would try to mount her over and over again......and she would absolutely attack him. They can be a little biiitchy 

I had to keep them apart as best as I could. Then one day.....he was so excited trying to mount her....his penis came out and wouldn't go back in. It was terrible. I had to take him to vet to get it back in. That was an unexpected surgery. 

IMO...do not let any dog...even a neutered dog hump. Some neutered dog's will hump a female that's in heat. Just b/c they are fixed doesn't mean anything.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)




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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It is extremely unfair to your dog to try to work on dog reactivity issues when she is in heat. 

Are you a female? If not, go ask any woman if they like to be messes with when their hormones are raging. If their hormones are currently raging....duck...quickly...

First, her reactivity could be worse because of the hormones. Second, you don't force a dog reactive dog to interact with another dog.

Look up LAT (Look At That). Read up on clicker training for dog reactivity. I hear "Click to Calm" is a good book. I own it....and lent it out so never got to read it!


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## Susnelda (Aug 23, 2010)

Thank you so much for your input. I don't have a lot of experience with females in heat; we have owned pet GSDs for years, all spayed. 

I consulted an experienced GSD breeder/ trainer about the question I posed to you. She said that Suzie was at her most receptive stage now, and that it would be worth a try. She also thought Boris would become enamoured of her (thus taking care of the fighting instinct), and that she might welcome his advances. She cautioned us not to let Boris mate with her to prevent uterine infection. I didn't know that this might be a health hazard to the male, as well. Our friend thought it would be best to test the waters first by having Suzie on a long rope, then letting her off if things were going well.

I realize that if the two dogs were to become friendly, that this wouldn't probably not be a cure for Suzie's issues. I was hoping it might be a start, though, and also give her a buddy to romp and play with. Besides Suzie, we also have an elderly GSD female, close to 14 yrs. old, who is much too frail for the pup's rambunciousness, and we have to keep the two apart most of the time.

I've heard of Pitbulls' fighting potential; that's why I was very hesitant about introducing Boris to Suzie under normal conditions.

I've tried various methods to get Suzie's reactivity under control while on walks, beginning with treats and distractions when nearing another dog on walks, as well as corrections, at the advice of an old-school type trainer, supposedly quite famous in our area, supposedly also very experienced with dog aggression. 

Our elderly female, Greta, was very afraid of strange dogs when she was young, hiding behind me and cowering when meeting even little dogs. I was able to overcome that gradually by acting happy and excited whenever we approached a friendly looking strange dog. In the end, she loved meeting and playing with friendly, new dogs. It would be ideal if I could use a similar approach with Suzie. Of course, dog reactivity is a whole other issue. I get pretty nervous and apprehensive myself now, whenever I walk Suzie, and realize that I really have to keep that in check.

Re. her coming into heat--we got her at 8 mths of age. I wanted to have her spayed when she was more mature, ideally after her first season. I didn't realize she would come into season just four months after her first heat! We have no desire to breed her, and set a date with our vet in mid February for her spay.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Susnelda said:


> We have no desire to breed her, and set a date with our vet in mid February for her spay.


I would wait a little longer - if she came into heat 2 weeks ago she'll have just finished by then and it's better to wait a couple months after her heat is over to spay. 

We had Dena spayed a month after her first heat and the vet said he could still see signs of it, her body had not completely returned to normal yet. With Halo we waited 2 months after her heat to spay.


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## Susnelda (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks, Debbie, you may be right; I was wondering about that, too. I've also read that it's optimal to do a spay/ neuter when a dog is fully mature, so waiting another 2 months would help.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Well, It seems every response here said, "Bad idea." These very experienced GSD owners have said "Bad idea." But, it looks like you are going to do this anyway. My question is WHY? What is the big deal? Your dog doesn't like other dogs. She doesn't need to like other dogs. She doesn't have to play with other dogs. My GSD is 14 years old. Has lived her entire life without liking other dogs. She has had a good long life and doesn't seem to have missed that interaction. She has us. That is all she needs. I have "managed" her. She always had an excellent recall and "leave it." Muzzles are good. Chances are your dog is not going to change, except maybe after your experiment, she will be worse.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I have a fear reactive/DA dog as well. Very low threshold. We also have another dog as well; closer in age then yours so they are able to play. Our goal used to be to get him to the point where he would play with other dogs.... he's best buds with the other dog so why couldn't he be with other dogs. He just isn't that type of dog and I don't see that changing. He's happy with his best bud and a fantastic dog with us. The more realistic goal we are working toward is raising his threshold and tolerance through training, building his confidence and handler ability (yeah I needed training as well  ) We've seen huge amounts of progress once we faced the reality of it.


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## Susnelda (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi again--I will probably not try to introduce Suzie to Boris if the risk is just too high. Suzie is very playful and energetic, and had a nice play session with the older male GSD, Dan, from a few months ago. The male's owner, also an experienced breeder, thought that Suzie just doesn't know how to interact with dogs. We got Suzie when she was 8 months old; we were told that the previous owners used a shock collar on her for barking at other dogs. That very well might be a factor in her aggression. She got along well with Greta (our older girl) when we introduced the two; but had a couple of fights with her in the first few months.
I was hoping that Suzie would be able to play with Boris like she did with Dan. Dan is a very stable, relaxed GSD, very trusted by his owner, so I had no fear that he would attack her. Unfortunately, he's not nearby. If there were other calm dogs like him here to introduce to Suzie, I think it would really help her. But if she's the type of dog who just doesn't like strange dogs, I wouldn't expect her to be friendly towards them, just tolerant. It would be nice for her to have a good buddy next door, but probably that's being a little unrealistic on my part. 
I like Brenda Aloff's methods of gradual desensitization; Victoria Stilwell seems to be using similar methods. It's just rather difficult to use them on walks, when a strange dog can suddenly dash out in front of you and provoke an attack. Agree with you, Twyla, more training and confidence for me would improve our situation a lot. : )


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

It sounds like you are on the right track. It's really hard to give advice regarding an aggression issue online. We aren't seeing exactly what the trigger is. Sounds like you have an experienced person to help you, and it sounds like you have a really good handle on how she is reacting. 

the only thing I can say is that you need to forget the idea of having 'a good buddy next door'. I held that belief that Jax needed to play with another dog. Until she had a very good chance to play with a younger dog, still a puppy, and had NO DESIRE too. At all. She ignored him. It then dawned on me that Jax didn't want to play with other dogs. I wanted her too. Kind of like the parent on the playground that makes their kid play with someone they don't like because 'it's good for them'. It's a human thing...not a dog thing. So go with what she wants.


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## Susnelda (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks, Jax. Your analogy of the parent who wants her child to have friends is spot on. 
I've made up my mind not to introduce Suzie to Boris now, but to just work on her dog reactivity issues when she's out of season. I'll try introducing her to friendly dogs after her spay, but as long as she learns not to attack other dogs, I'll be happy.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I consulted an experienced GSD breeder/ trainer about the question I posed to you. She said that Suzie was at her most receptive stage now, and that it would be worth a try. She also thought Boris would become enamoured of her (thus taking care of the fighting instinct), and that she might welcome his advances.


This is seriously one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard.
"worth a try"?? 
I mean...dog aggression/reactivity and being in heat/breeding are two completely different things.
Even a female who is aggressive could be bred and go back to being aggressive as soon as the process is over. Some bitches have to be restrained even during that part due to their reactivity. 

Anyway. Glad you're taking the people on the board's advice to heart and nixing the whole idea, and hope you can get her spayed soon.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

FWIW just because a male is neutered doesn't mean he won't mount and tie your dog! Tying can be dangerous if either of the dogs freak out. I've seen dogs who are normally very social with other dogs become vicious while in heat. The female is receptive to the male while she's in standing heat, but for the rest of the time she might have other behavior and mood changes. 

I'm with msvette, this thread is pretty bizarre.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I can tell you that females in heat are not receptive to all advances. They have their likes and dislikes too. My boy has been around 2 females that were either in heat, or just coming out of heat. The one that was in heat...didn't seem like the owner knew it (it was at the dog park) and the one that just got out of heat, I'm not quite sure why the guy brought her to the park so soon after. My boy was going nuts (he's not neutered) and neither of them wanted anything to do with him. I can't ever see the way a male acts around a female in heat as ever being helpful. They get quite aggressive and aren't really for "play" at that point. They have one thing on their minds and don't stop until they get it.

No worries about the two incidents at the park though, I got him leashed until they left.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Not to mention the boys get their *ahem* knickers all twisted and then things don't end well for him either.
I'd be po'ed as heck if someone brought their female in heat around one of my males, even if didn't or wasn't marking before, he could very well start then, neutered or not.
We just do not want to go there. Or rather, been there, done that and do not wish to go there again, or I'd own my own intact bitch to drive them all half-insane.


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