# Strict Vegetarian Diet



## JeffD

I am mentoring a good friend in India regarding his 8 week old rescue GSD puppy. He and his family are strict vegetarians and are already bending the rules by feeding Rusty eggs and cod liver oil. All they have available there is basic Purina (corn base) and a good quality US kibble that I cant remember the name of, which Rusty wants nothing to do with. Can someone recommend an all veg diet? They have plenty of rice, beans, and a rich/varied middle class all vegggan diet. The pup is currently on puppy formula and puppy "baby food". He gets raw carrot to chew on and is being totally spoiled and pampered by the entire extended family. He is also receiving excellent medical care from the ONE enlightened vet in my friend's city of 12 million people. Please HELP!!!!


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## dd

Do they eat fish?


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## Chris Wild

I can understand the family being strict vegetarians, as humans have the digestive capabilities to make that choice without it harming health. But dogs are carnivores. The best food for a dog is what it was designed to eat, and that means primarily meat. Is there any possible way to get them to realize that a dog is not a human, both in digestive abilities and in terms of morality, so feeding the dog a correct, meat-based, diet shouldn't be viewed as "breaking the rules"?

Sounds like they are fantastic owners in every respect and the dog is very well cared for, but a strict vegetarian diet is really not appropriate for a dog.


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## Cooper&me

I am a vegitarian and feed my dogs mostly raw chicken, fish, beef...anything meat I can get my hands on.

I am a vegitarian because I think that is the healthiest for me. I would NEVER do that to my dogs because I do not see how that could remotely be good for them.


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## Brightelf

It sounds to me like these folks really love their dog!







I bet they all want to spoil and cuddle the new lil fella. Rusty has a good thing going, if everyone loves him!









However-- dogs need meat, and _very little _if _any_ grains and vegetables. *"Spieces appropriate"* is something that they can understand... but perhaps they will not accept it.







Ask if they would feed a cow (gasp!!)







a diet of chicken breast, pork roast, and lamb stew. Dogs often suffer horribly on grain-based/vegetable-based diets. Dogs however, _thrive_ on a meat-based diet.

Do not panic about "Pedigree brand." If they can buy the better food, such as Eukanuba or Iams, that is better. Plus, it is safer regarding gas, hotspots, etc.

If they put Rusty on a strict vegetarian diet, they can expect some or all of the following from their dog: 

1. Amazing, and painful, gas-- the kind of farts that clear a village, not a room, because the dogs cannot handle a nearly all-grain diet with veggies thrown in. 
2. Itching and hotspots that astound, as the dog chews holes in himself. The overload fro agri-farmed grains and veggies needs to be excreted somwehere, so the skin errupts.
3. Collossal poops the size of your foot. All that goes in must come out-- because it cannot be utilized. (it isn't MEAT)
4. Stinky, wet, yeast-y ears and skin. The entire balance is off, the dog can no longer regulate his own defense system without species-appropriate foods. 

Pedigree brand food either will or will not work for this dog.







Many dogs are desperately gassy, itchy, fat, hyper, yeast-y, etc on grain-based foods.. but some DO tolerate it as best they can. *Try for the Iams or Eukanuba or whatever the better brand is.* It sounds like they love Rusty.. I hope that they are open to *spieces-appropriate *feeding for him!


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## CindyM

Hi! I am a vegetarian, too (Vegan actually), but I feed my dogs meat, as well. I do feel that is what they are supposed to eat to be healthy. 

Anyway, I do have lots of vegetarian dog recipes at home that I will occasionally make for my dogs. Some things off the top of my head are oatmeal and eggs, different bean dishes, and crumbled up veggie burgers with potatoes or rice. If you'd like, please PM me and when I get home I can share some of the exact recipes with you.

Also, there are quite a few balanced vegetarian recipes in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health/dp/157954973X

I wonder if you can suggest to them that they feed vegetarian maybe one or two days a week, and meat the other days? Just a thought that they may be willing to compromise!


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## Regen

I also eat very little meat, and if at all only poultry, but I believe that for the people in India, it is almost not a choice. It is a way of life, and part of the belief system which is deeply ingrained. We simply cannot put our western belief system on them, because it is a mute point. They might be ostracized for feeding meat, and decide to simply let go of the dog and fend for it itself. 

Unfortunately I have very little advice, because despite my own vegetarian lifestyle I feed my dogs meat. I do remember seeing advertisements in my Vegetarian Times magazine I used to get for vegetarian dog food, which might be an option. Believe it or not there are people even in this country who will not feel their dogs meat. Maybe we are just not open to the idea, but as long as this family loves this dog and tries to give it the best possible diet that still fits their belief system, this dog will still have a good life. We must not lose sight of the fact that this is a different country with different values and beliefs. 

When my father worked for the Foreign service, we were living in Turkey, and the only dogs you saw there, where the ones roaming around trying to live off the garbage. There was a little wooded, grassy area, next to our apartment complex in which some semi feral dogs lived. I will never forget when one day the Turkish version of animal control came around and shot them all, including the mother with puppies. I remember running down to try to stop them, with my mother trying to run after me, to keep me safe from the gunshots , but by the time I got there, they were dead. I was 11. It was awful, I was crying so hard. And was so upset at the cruelty I saw on a daily basis living there. I just went totally off topic, but I guess I just wanted to make the point, that as shocked and horrifying that was to me, it was just normalcy there. So if this family can find a way to feed this pup vegetarian than that is what we should support. Eating meat in India is like eating cats and dogs to us. I highly doubt we could be convinced that we should do it.


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## LuvsDieter

Can dogs eat Lentils? I seriously have no idea, so I'm just throwing it out there. That might be a cheap, widely available protein source, IF the pup can eat it.


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## JeffD

To All, and thank you so much for your input... I pretty much knew what the answer was.. just wanted some validation.. and maybe hoped that I dont know all there is to know. I still dont claim to be know-all and end-all but my gut does keep me supplied with common sense. Just so everyone knows, yes, there are many degrees of Vegetarianism, but devout Hindu Brahmins dont compromise.. no warmblooded products, period, but I think milk is okay. The family IS willing to do whatever is necessary for Rusty.. and there has never been even an egg in that house until he arrived. The mom, and doyenne of the kitchen, as most grandmas do, is willing to adapt to and overlook everything the little begger requires in order to thrive. My colleague is a middle class, educated man and has reached deep into his pocketbook to make sure that Rusty gets the very best care around, including shots, exams, and we have already discussed the importance of neutering. Pretty much, I am his Puppy Guru and he does everything I suggest. I am honored, but also realize and do not take lightly, the responsibilities of my position. 

There are very few manufactured animal feed products available in my friend's area. He told me this morning that he conferred with a neighbor who is not of his sect and DOES eat animal products, and this neighbor is willing to COOK FOR RUSTY.. LOL LOL... I wish my neighbors were willing to help out like that. 

By the way, I raised two GSDs as a kid. I have been into greyhound rescue for the past 12 years and am currently owned lock stock and barrel by 2 females and a whippet. We recently lost our alpha and my best friend after a 12 yr run. I KNOW that Rusty was sent to me by Eddie to preserve and protect, even from 12,000 miles off. Rest in peace, my best friend.. I will do as you direct me from the Rainbow Bridge. With tears in my eyes as I post this... Your devoted servant, Jeff and much love from OJ (Orange Julius), Sami and Ebony. We miss you so much. Its 3 weeks today.


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## MaggieRoseLee

JeffD, look up top and click on the teeny blinking envelope!


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## 3K9Mom

Evangers has vegetarian diet.

http://www.evangersdogfood.com/dog/superpremium.html

I would recommend that in this situation, but is it available in India? Could it be shipped in by the boatload, perhaps?









Cheryl Schwartz, DVM, author of _Four Paws, Five Directions _ says that dogs can live on a vegetarian diet. Do I recommend it for most of those who are putting their dogs on a vegetarian diet because it conforms with their lifestyle, or even like for me, it conforms with deeply held principles? No. Unequivocally No. I (and others like me) have managed to create diets for their dogs that are meat-based and still conform to their principles. 

But here, we're talking about religious and spiritual beliefs. That, for me, is a whole other matter entirely. There are experts who say that dogs can do well, even thrive on balanced vegetarian diets. Heck, a lot (most?) of dogs around the world eat grain-based diets of kibble that have very little meat protein in them anyhow -- if they're that lucky. 

Dr. Schwartz has her email address posted on her website. I would try contacting her. She might be able to put you in touch with someone knowledgeable to help you create a good balanced diet. I'm certain one could be devised, especially if you have owners who have the resources and willingness to home-cook. 

http://www.viim.org/institute/doctors/schwartz.asp

I wish you and your friends luck Jeff. It sounds like they have a good friend in you and that pup has a loving home. All dogs should be so lucky.


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## BowWowMeow

A homemade diet with eggs and beans and tofu as the protein sources (and ground up eggshells for calcium) would be much better for the dog than feeding them those corn-based kibbles. 

I have often used (pre-soaked) beans as a major protein source in my homemade dog food and my dogs did fine on them. 

The Pitcairn book has some vegetarian recipes. 
I wouldn't choose a vegetarian diet for my dog but I think it is possible to do it, especially if they are willing to also use eggs they could modify the Pitcairn recipes and the dog would be fine.


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## JeffD

Thank you.. Rusty is only 8 weeks old. I should have explained that he was rescued at only 3 weeks of age.. in itself a miracle that he is so fat and happy now.. between Shashi's mom (raised a bunch of handsome kids) and me, raised a baby of my own and now parent to a bunch of hounds, we are following our instincts about infant rearing and things seem to be going FINE. He loves cooked eggs and is still on puppy formula and puppy cereal.. I told Shashi to add some white rice and a couple kibbles at a time.. and to cut down his feedings from 4 to 3.. just trying to figure out what to do for the coming weeks and then the coming year. India is not as advanced as us here in the West concerning pet nutrition and pet care, but Shashi has found a competent vet and then there is all of us.. IT DOES TAKE A VILLAGE to raise a child.


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## BowWowMeow

Brown rice is more nutritious than white rice and long grain brown rice is higher in protein. If you get the Pitcairn book or any of the other resources mentioned you could scan in the recipes and send them to them. Again, homecooked is far better than a commercial kibble like Purina or Eukanuba or whatever they have over there.


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## demonboy

Hi there, just read this today and was wondering if u had any updates on Rusty. I live in India too, Mumbai, and have a 5yr old male fella called Demon. I can understand the vegetarian problem cuz it's the same one that we face in our house. I'm the only one out of our human family of 3 who eats non-veg (no beef) but we dont cook it at our house. I do feed him some chicken once in while but only after convincing my mum to cook it using separate cookware and without my father knowing. The real issue is buying clean and hygienic meat here and then, cooking it as we have very little knowledge on buying, handling and cooking meat. I have read a lot about raw diets etc but to find that much meat and variety, and that too of a decent hygienic standard here is impossible and you would break the bank. Hopefully u can share the name of the city where ur friend is located and even more importantly, the vet he goes to because as u have mentioned, the medical standards and facilities for dogs here are nowhere close to those in the west.


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## carmspack

beans and rice that has not been soaked would have an enzyme , phytates , phytic acid which impairs /prevents absorbtion of some minerals . Rice should be whole , and sprouted (easy to do) .

I covered all this the second year I was an invited participant in Toronto's Raw and Vegan festival - 2 years in a row . Pretty extreme or radical group with tinge of PETA because most booed and hissed at the notion of dogs being owned -- however for the reasonable there were lots of questions --- NOT ideal by a long shot in my opinion . My son is a vegan , and he fed his pet an appropriate meat diet . What we choose or impose for ourselves is our choice and we have to make wise choices for those that depend on us , the animals we keep.

Can they at least get HEMP flour - mix chlorella / spirulina , carob , coconut oil, black sesame seeds / sesame seeds which have a high bioavailable source of calcium -- sprouted Chia seeds which are something like 30% more available omega 3 than flax seed.
I spent the afternoon with Jerry the owner master mind behind Organic Traditions thrashing out ideas and getting ingredients sourced . very fortunate to have him at the "market" 

Organic Traditions SPROUTED CHIA SEED POWDER (ORGANIC) - 454G - - National Nutrition


It can be done . First generation will be okay .


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