# How To Find A Good Working GSD



## JohnnyB (Apr 2, 2008)

Wasn't sure where to really ask this.

I've been doing some online searching and European (DDR/Czech) bloodline GSD have peaked my interest. They seem to have the traits I'm looking for and I love the dark sables.

I currently have a show line GSD. While he has been GREAT as my first GSD, he doesn't have enough drive(s) to work much. So, I starting to look into getting a GSD somewhere between what I have and something totally off the chain.

I know nothing about which blood lines are good by looking a pedigrees. So, how do I go about finding a breeder that has blood lines that will produce what I want (I realize there's no guarantee & it's target) ? Looking for good temperament, confidence, solid nerves, good drives and an on off switch. First and foremost we need a family companion. I believe that's possible...If not, I'll have to reconsider the working dog idea.

I was thinking finding a local breeder would be nice. Does that really matter?

I'm in absolutely no hurry. This is something I'm consider over the next 1 - 4 years. So, I could wait for a breeder to say they think they have a dog that meets all I'm seeking. Just don't know how to find that breeder.

Any tips on how locate a breeder and/or recommended breeders would be much appreciated.


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Your best bet is to get recommendations. Where do you live?


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

your best bet is to go where the dogs are being worked and trained. Learn what the dogs have, learn where they are being produced, learn what kind of dogs you like. Then get a dog from there.

recommendations are just opinions and I remember when I first started in this sport I read a lot of comments and opinions from people, then years later I finally met some of them and their dogs. Needless to say, i see internet advice in a totally different light these days.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Starting with research, you are doing it now. I would write down what you want from/for your next companion; any training goals, how much time you have to spend on those goals and any GSD training venues that are local to you may help you in your search. Then go to those venues and learn about the different lines(even if you have to travel a bit)...you have time on your side, so enjoy your research, in a year, you'll be surprised at what you want two years from now!


----------



## JohnnyB (Apr 2, 2008)

I live in southwest OH.

Aside from the traits I mentioned above my goals as I see them now would be to have the ability to consider (not particular order except 1):

1) Companion
2) Possible trial work (such as Schutzund, French Ring, PSA, or...)
3) Agility
4) Tracking
5) Protection

Not sure I would really do any competition. But, rather have something challenge the dog and myself with. I had considered tracking to work w/our LEO. But, I'm sure that takes a huge commitment that I don't know I would have.

It seems the European lines have these traits and rich pigments are an added bonus for me. However, I'm sure there are other lines and poor lines w/in the European. I see people refer to a dog's pedigree but reading the lineage tells me nothing at this point.

Going to clubs that work is mentioned. I have a local trainer that I have worked with. But, they work mostly with Malinois and Pit Bulls.

What clubs are recommended to link up with?


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html <- click on that for some great links and info.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Go and watch some events in which German Shepherds are doing the things you listed. Talk to people at the events. Get a chance to see young puppies from the stock you are considering...then after going to a few of these events and SEEING some of these dogs in person and perform...then come back to the board with questions; and the answers will make much more sense so as to let you make a better informed decision.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

take the time to go to some competitions and watch - even before clubs - in clubs there are pressures to buy dogs within, and that can be a good thing or a bad - but watch dogs work - even at AKC obedience shows, look at pedigrees when you find dogs you like and dogs you don't like....try to study pedigrees of dogs who are breeding and look at the databases (pedigree, working dog eu and OFAs) to start to compile information on what is out there - after you see some of course - I'd recommend going to some of the bigger trials like the AWDF if you can or maybe the Masters.....

Lee


----------



## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

www.2011awdf.com


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Definitely read this if you haven't:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

There are lots and lots of good working line breeders out there. Everyone has things that are important to them. For me, I really wanted a breeder that works their own dogs. I grew up in the horse world and didn't take trainers and breeders very seriously who had nice horses they paid other people to show and train. I took that same opinion to dogs. How do you really KNOW your dog if you aren't training it AND trialing it away from home? Dogs react differently in different situations. However, this isn't a big deal to some people. 

To me, titles are also important (protection related)...preferably titles that are "away from home." I don't buy that you can say your dog has great nerves and amazing ability and doesn't need to be trialed when the dog has never trained a day in it's life outside of home field advantage. Sure it looks good on the field it's trained on since puppyhood with the helper he's seen twice a week for his whole life. The same dog might totally fold under pressure with a different helper in a strange place. But again, not important to some people. As evidenced by the numerous page threads going on.

I would say if you're interested in possibly doing a protection sport to go out to the different clubs in your area and get a feel for each one. Each sport is pretty different from each other...so find what kind you are drawn to and IF you really want to do it. A dog you're looking to do Ringsport with might not be the same dog a breeder guides you to if really what you're going to do is tracking. 

Just go to the various associations that do the sports your interested in and look up what clubs are near you. Then ask to go out and watch for awhile. 

And to clarify, pretty much all GSD's are "European lines" with the exception of American Show Lines and American Backyard Breeding Extra-Special Delight Version. ADL is definitely not the route people will send you if you're planning on doing Mondio!

Also keep doing research. DDR dogs and Czech dogs are GENERALLY quite different. Also consider West German Working Lines (which then fragments into "Belgian" lines or "Dutch" lines, etc).


----------



## JohnnyB (Apr 2, 2008)

I though DDR dogs and Czech dogs were generally referred to as European as there really are any true DDR or Czech dogs remaining. (another point learned I guess).

Thanks for the info. I will look for some events in my area and try to find some various clubs.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

the whole "DDR" thing is just a sniping match IMO.....there are breeders who keep their bloodlines intact even though the wall has been down for decades....and most of us know when you say DDR - the poster wants/is speaking of a dog who is substantial in body and bone, with a bigger head, not a prey monster, and usually is good pigmented sable! 

In horses - it is very common to denote "TYPE" by a label depicting the origin of the lines....particularly in Arab horses - you have Egyptian, Polish, Russian (with a big hit of Egyptian through Aswan!), Crabbet, Blue List Egyptian, and when you say you have one of these - then other fanciers know something about the bloodlines and physical type and talents of your horse! Dog people get into this wierd frame about it - why I can't figure out! But then horse people accept that AQHA type halter (conformation) horses can't go out and win in cutting or reining and Doc Bar bred cutting horses are not going to stand Grand Champion at the Congress!!!! It is not a matter of insult or denial...it just IS.

Sent you a PM about some clubs you may be able to visit given your location was noted...

Lee


----------



## Captain1 (Feb 25, 2011)

Wolfstraum or anyone else,

I find your description on DDR interesting, I am sure its the general perception.

How do DDR dogs generally fare in Sieger shows and upon acquiring their titles? On many Sieger show videos, seldom seen are dark sables or all blk DDR stlye GSD dogs competing.

And also, considering that DDR dogs are supposedly more substantial than typical WG dogs and ofcourse American showdogs. How does the bigger-heavier bone and/or more massive heads effect endurance tests, movement & grips?


----------



## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

The Sieger Shows are primarily West German Show Lines.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

DDR bred dogs are in the minority in shows and trials....many breeders in the US selling DDR dogs - the majority go to pet homes...some West German working dogs are mixed with DDR blood - I have a WGR x DDR (with a bit of Czech) female - but as far as the kennel names specializing in DDR lines - you can go through 3 issues of USA trial results and are lucky to see one dog from the kennel in the trial/show listings...the looks are very very appealing - and the lower prey drive does not lend itself to easy training....I titled a DDR female to multiple Sch3/IPO3 - she always had her own agenda and the Obedience was fairly correct - not flashy - very good civil and hunt drives - but not a sport competition dog by her very nature

Lee


----------



## JohnnyB (Apr 2, 2008)

Maybe I need to learn & clarify what I'm really looking for.

It seems some make a distinction between a working dog for sport vs real life work/companionship. Is this the case? Is there a certain type of drive that suits one and lessens the other?

If I understand Lee, you are saying that DDR/Czech background dogs don't have as much prey driver? Does that mean they are more serious and it's not as much of a game? Not sure I follow.


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

JohnnyB said:


> It seems some make a distinction between a working dog for sport vs real life work/companionship. Is this the case? Is there a certain type of drive that suits one and lessens the other?
> 
> If I understand Lee, you are saying that DDR/Czech background dogs don't have as much prey driver? Does that mean they are more serious and it's not as much of a game? Not sure I follow.


If you want to really excel in Schutzhund, you'll need a dog that matures fairly quickly and has a high prey drive, like a West German Working Line. 


IN GENERAL (and there are plenty of exceptions) The DDR and Czech dogs aren't as prey drivey and are more serious. They also tend to mature slowly both mentally and emotionally, so at 2 and even 3 years old you still have a big puppy. 

I researched this when I was considering my mostly DDR pup, but his parents both have fairly good prey drive that's not over the top. At 10 weeks old he is showing fairly good prey as well, so it's not like if you get an East German Dog you have to consign yourself to never playing fetch.


----------



## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

IN GENERAL - the DDR are low prey - toy prey which makes training with toys harder....Czech? haven't worked with a dog with high percentage of Czech, but I think they are lower threshold and quicker to react to stimulus if they are old Czech lines (Cliff would be the one to elaborate here) -WGR, particularly the lines today being popular, are very high toy/prey...and very reactive....IN GENERAL!!!

My breedings have been blends of DDR/Czech with WGR and then next step to Belgian...going to bring that back to Czech/OLD Belgian (more serious dogs) hopefully in the near future....and that would be free of the most used WGR lines

My other female line is Belgian/WGR and very differnet in drives from my DDR based foundation female lines....but with some elements in common that bring balance of civil social aggression to the higher prey...

I am trying to do balance, not just super high prey sport dogs....

Lee


----------

