# Discussion: Large Dog on Plane



## ILGHAUS

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Something I have been thinking of alot lately is if my boy makes it to full SD....he turned out bigger than I expected her planned on (I think he will max out at 90lb). He is very long bodied. My 67# female found it impossible to keep herself out of my neighbor's foot space on a plane, even in bulkhead.
> 
> How in the world will he ever fit??



Discussion to follow below.


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## ILGHAUS

I have some friends that use Mastiffs and Great Danes for their SDs. I'll ask them if they have any special tricks that they use. I do know that they practice "tucks" a lot and also so the dog keeps its tail out of the way.


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## Baillif

If there is a special tuck I sure never figured it out. If you have to travel solo it's kind of unavoidable. I had Crank tucked down close to the chair so people could drape legs over him and stretch out but he was partially under them still. When I was seated near my gf I could use her as a buffer and then there was no issue but Crank is 62 pounds. Not a big guy.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Bailiff that is basically what always happened with my female GSD (she was prob 65 # then)

We were basically always flying alone, and occasionally my seatmate would be pissed about it. There was always someone quick to volunteer to switch seats and sit by me and let her lay under their legs some, but still always a little stressful. 

When my mother was dying I flew back and forth so many times I got so sick of it I actually bought her her own seat once so I knew she could have 2 foot spaces. And he is SO much bigger than her 

I am afraid that my goal is going to have to be cramming him into two seats' foot space in bulkhead and even that would be tight, I swear the planes get smaller every year.


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## ILGHAUS

What I wanted to check out is something that I have heard of. Anyway, it is still recommended by a few others.

Train your dog with cut down boxes. Start with larger area/dimensions box and cut down to maybe a foot high. Train to curl up inside for a treat. After dog can do this without a problem go to a slightly smaller area box. Give same command as before and treat. Along the way help position the dog. When helping with the tail give a command such as "tail" or whatever you want. For smaller boxes you may have to cut and tape the larger one down somewhat. -- I have heard of some people using plastic totes, but those would be for smaller dogs. 

This is two commands being taught. 
"Tuck" or "Curl" (or whatever you want to use) to fit body in a certain space.
"Tail" which can be used when dog is at a sit or down and the tail is in the way of people walking by. 

I wanted to start this with my guy when a pup, but he was too busy trying to chew on or attack the box that I gave up and never went back to. I think this would be a really good command to work on when the weather is too bad to go outside and the dog needs something to do. 

These two commands should help with flying, under a table at a restaurant, riding in a taxi, at a movie theater, or in a classroom or meeting room.


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## ILGHAUS

I have also had a friend that had her male GSD back somewhat under the seat in front of her and curl the rest of his body in her footspace, but not sure exactly how that worked. Wish I had asked her more at the time or even better for a picture. 

I know that some people have a different command when they have their dog back under something vrs. a plain "under" where the dog goes forward head first.


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## Deb

I think if you let them know in advance that you have a GSD service dog and will need more foot space they try to accommodate you. When I've flown with toddlers they would give me a seat at the front where I had open space in front of me. I've seen service dogs in those seats before.


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## Deb

Or perhaps once everyone has boarded you can ask if there are two seats together that are empty so you can move? I'm just trying to think of options for if he can't fit. I can't imagine my son trying to fit Demi, his service GSD on a plane, she's quite large.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Yes I have heard of using laundry baskets and the like to train a big dog to put themselves into a smaller space. If he continues to do well in his other training maybe I will mess around with it. I can't imagine how uncomfortable that would be for a long flight though. 

If he continuea to do well we will try city bus and then train and see how he handles the noise and jostling before I ever consider trying to fly with him anyway


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## ILGHAUS

Another answer I just got from someone else. When they go to the check-in counter they ask if it would be possible to ask the person assigned to sit next to them if they are allergic or would they mind if a SD shared part of their foot space. She said she then doesn't stand near the desk so that the person assigned next to them is free to respond as they want. Sometimes the other person requests to be moved thus giving the SD team two places or maybe they may even move the SD team. Most flights have at least one empty seat so while you can't count on this happening it is one possible thing to try.


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## selzer

It seems like if you have the seat where the emergency doors are, you get a lot more foot space? So that might work -- letting them know prior to your flight so that they can accommodate the dog.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Thanks that is something I will definitely use....asking ahead of time. I hate getting into the seat and then the gamble of whether the seatmate is grumpy about it or not. I would WAY rather let the airline ppl handle it ahead of time.

I remember back in the day before I flew her the first time I put 2 heavy chairs up against a wall to teach her how to back in and get down under my feet in the cramped space....


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## Thecowboysgirl

selzer said:


> It seems like if you have the seat where the emergency doors are, you get a lot more foot space? So that might work -- letting them know prior to your flight so that they can accommodate the dog.


Good idea but I am almost positive SDs aren't allowed in the emergency exit row


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## Baillif

Deb said:


> Or perhaps once everyone has boarded you can ask if there are two seats together that are empty so you can move? I'm just trying to think of options for if he can't fit. I can't imagine my son trying to fit Demi, his service GSD on a plane, she's quite large.


The problem with this is dogs can't be seated in a chair and they only fit in bulkhead seating. You can't put them in an emergency isle which is the only other place on most planes with space. It pretty much has to be bulkhead seating.


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## Thecowboysgirl

I have always called ahead and requested bulkhead for every flight I ever did with a dog.

I really wouldn't leave it up to chance and hope there was an extra seat...what if there isn't?

I wouldn't want to wait for a later flight when I have already fasted my dog and gone thru security ect. 

I wonder if the airlines would give me the dimensions for bulkhead so I could try and cram him in somrthing at home and see if it is even possible


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## selzer

Why can't they be in the emergency isle -- not arguing, I just want to understand the thinking.


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## Deb

Baillif said:


> The problem with this is dogs can't be seated in a chair and they only fit in bulkhead seating. You can't put them in an emergency isle which is the only other place on most planes with space. It pretty much has to be bulkhead seating.



Sorry, I didn't mean for the dog to use the seat, but for the extra floor space.


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## Thecowboysgirl

I honestly don't know I just know I have read that on some airline's website...my guesses would be:

blocking the exit, or they don't want disabled people in the exit row ..... had a thought on why but can't remember now...? Does that person open the emergency door or help other people get out?


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## Baillif

Deb said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean for the dog to use the seat, but for the extra floor space.


Most flights the only real space is at the bulkhead. There is just enough for legs you can forget shoving a dog down there.


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## Deb

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I honestly don't know I just know I have read that on some airline's website...my guesses would be:
> 
> blocking the exit, or they don't want disabled people in the exit row ..... had a thought on why but can't remember now...? Does that person open the emergency door or help other people get out?



Yes, you have to be able to open the door. The stewardess actually will ask you if you are physically able to. Well, I'm small, so maybe they don't ask if you look big enough/strong enough to open it.


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## Baillif

Plus nothing including a service dog can be blocking the way. Too bad though Crank loves slides he'd probably be the first one down it.


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## scarfish

Deb said:


> Yes, you have to be able to open the door. The stewardess actually will ask you if you are physically able to. Well, I'm small, so maybe they don't ask if you look big enough/strong enough to open it.


i think they don't call them stewardesses anymore. PC police. it's now flight attendants.


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## Baillif

Watch your micro aggressions bro. Better check your privilege


***Oversized picture removed by ADMIN***


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## Deb

scarfish said:


> i think they don't call them stewardesses anymore. PC police. it's now flight attendants.


ROFL!! You're right! I'm showing my age!


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## JunYue97

Has anyone here travelled with multiple pets by plane? Since I just adopted another cat from shelter, there will be two cats and one dog when I move away from Toronto to US several years later. I have heard one person is allowed only one pet, is that true at all?


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## Deb

You can have one small one in the cabin for most airlines and the others have to go in cargo.


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## Thecowboysgirl

So Baillif Crank is a service dog? Or an emotional support animal?


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## Baillif

He's a service dog. Also does mondio. Very versatile guy. He's been flying 5 times now.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Interesting, didn't know.

Isn't there some new federal law saying service dogs can't also do protection training?


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## Baillif

He doesn't protect anything he just bites people on the weekends


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## Deb

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Interesting, didn't know.
> 
> Isn't there some new federal law saying service dogs can't also do protection training?


A service dog can be trained in protection but they then lose the ADA for entering businesses. If a business knows the dog is protection trained they legally can say no to it being inside their business.


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## Deb

A service dog cannot be used as a therapy dog. Sometimes I don't understand the rules.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Baillif said:


> He doesn't protect anything he just bites people on the weekends


Ok I get what you are saying but not really sure the letter of the law agrees with you....but I can't remember exactly what it says I would have to go read it again


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## Baillif

It's only a problem when someone gets bitten. From what I understand its protection training in a PPD sense. The dog is trained to bite suits not go for people. It isn't that much different from biting a tug. Someone just happens to be wearing it.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Baillif said:


> It's only a problem when someone gets bitten. From what I understand its protection training in a PPD sense. The dog is trained to bite suits not go for people. It isn't that much different from biting a tug. Someone just happens to be wearing it.


LOL its only a problem when someone gets bitten...how did I know you were going to say that.

I totally understand the distinction you are making about the bite suit and for that matter I would assume Crank knows when he is training or competing at that sport and that that sport and those activities happen under x y set of circumstances.

I mean I track my dog in the same hay field I walk him in on other days and he never looks for the track when we are out walking because he knows that isn't what we are there to do

I actually think it states something about SD tasks pertaining to protection of the handler. So technically it is a sport you both do, not tasks where he is trained to actually protect you though I do question you could make that distinction to a courtroom

However all brings you back to your original statement, only a problem if he bites someone. I am sure you know what your dog will and won't do. Shrug

I hope a lesser dog handler doesn't read this and get the wrong idea though if you know what I mean


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## gsdsar

Do nt have a Service Dog, but do fly in cabin with my dog a lot as a SAR dog. 

My dog is trained to take up as little space as possible. When we get to the gate I tell the gate agents I have a dog and they seat me first, with the people needing help, if I am flying an airline that does not have assigned seating. 

If I am flying with assigned seating I request bulkhead seats. 

On occasion or longer flight, she has been known to slowly spread out. If I see her doing that I check with my seat mate. If they seem the least bit put out I correct her position. 

I have known handlers that did not request bulkhead and they have been seated in normal seats. The dog, if it can't curl under the seat at their feet, must sit in between their legs during the flight. Not comfortable, but that's what's done. 

Once I have had a person request a different seat, so they didn't have to sit next to me. 4 people volunteered to switch with them. 

Now, my dog is allowed to interact with people. So I have found that people really enjoy sitting next to me and loving on my dog. The number of photos she has been in, crazy.


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## Fodder

I would not wait... Start training him now, it can't hurt. Our labs become accustom to being tucked away from 8weeks til about 14/16 months in preparation for their lives as service dogs. Also useful in restaurants with booth seating, passenger seats of cars, etc etc...

It comes in handy and they're much better at it when introduced during a time that they actually fit. I just placed a very long and leggy 26" 75lb lab last week and his client e mailed me over how impressed he was of the dogs plane manners. Tucked himself and didn't budge for the 3hr flight.


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## cloudpump

Fodder said:


> I would not wait... Start training him now, it can't hurt. Our labs become accustom to being tucked away from 8weeks til about 14/16 months in preparation for their lives as service dogs. Also useful in restaurants with booth seating, passenger seats of cars, etc etc...
> 
> It comes in handy and they're much better at it when introduced during a time that they actually fit. I just placed a very long and leggy 26" 75lb lab last week and his client e mailed me over how impressed he was of the dogs plane manners. Tucked himself and didn't budge for the 3hr flight.


Would dogs be susceptible to blood clots being still for that long, similar to humans sitting still on a plane? Curious because you deal with so many service dogs.


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## ILGHAUS

Let's try to keep the thread on the discussion.

Yes, Service Dogs can also be Therapy Dogs.

U.S. Airline regulations differ for Pets, SAR and Service Dogs.

No, Service Dogs can not be seated in the Emergency Door row. It is a matter of safety for other passengers. The person sitting here must be able to open the door properly without distractions of a dog or child. 

Service Dogs are not pets but are legally "medical equipment" and so it does not matter if there are pets on the same flight. They are not classified the same.

There is a limit on picture size to be used on the forums. Overlarge pictures will be deleted.
MAXIMUM Picture size is 800 x 600

************ Back to the original question on this Discussion Thread ***************

Contrary to what some believe, the bulkhead seating is not always the best -- not always the most legroom. It depends on the configuration of the plane. When you make your reservation ask about the plane you will be on. Ask at this time if bulkhead seating will give you the most legroom and if so ask to be assigned there.


I heard back from two different people, one with a 130lb dog and one with a 150lb dog, both using non-German Shepherd dogs. They both suggested the same thing.
Call the Airline Disability Service number and let them know you will be traveling with a large dog. 

If you fly Delta:
Delta Airlines Disability Assistance
1-404-209-3434
For customers with hearing or speech disabilities: Dial 711

I have never heard of a dog forming blood clots on a fight, but anything is possible especially for a dog with circulation problems. But a dog with such a problem should not be used as a Service Dog to begin with.


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## Thecowboysgirl

Learn something new every day. I did not even know there was an airline disability services number to call!? And have flown with a SD for almost 9 years.

I am going to try and set something up in my training room to start teaching him about putting himself into small spaces. This is something I have TOTALLY neglected with him


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## cloudpump

So my mom's a flight attendant, and I asked her about this. Essentially everyone is spot on. She said that even though paperwork is required, JetBlue doesn't allow the flight attendants to ask to produce documentation. She's been snapped at a few times by dogs


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## ILGHAUS

37. What should airline personnel do if a passenger with a disability is accompanied in the airplane cabin by a service animal that does not fit in the space immediately in front of the passenger and there is no other seat in the cabin with sufficient space to safely accommodate the animal? 

Answer: If a service animal does not fit in the space immediately in front of the accompanying passenger with a disability and there is no other seat with sufficient space to safely accommodate the animal and its partner (i.e., user), there are several options to consider for accommodating the service animal in the cabin in the same class of service. The carrier should speak with other passengers to find a passenger in an adjacent seat who is willing to share foot space with the animal, or a passenger in a seat adjacent to a location where the service animal can be accommodated (e.g., in the space behind the last row of seats) or adjacent to an empty seat, who is willing to exchange seats with the service animal’s partner. As noted in the preamble to our rule, there are probably no circumstances in which the purchase of a second seat would be necessary to accommodate the service animal. If a class of service on a flight is totally filled, there would not be any seat available for purchase. If the class of service had even one middle seat unoccupied, the passenger with a service animal could be seated next to the vacant seat. It is likely that even a large animal (e.g., Great Dane) could use some of the floor space of the vacant seat, making any further purchase by the passenger unnecessary. Only if there is no alternative available to enable the passenger to travel with the service animal in the cabin on that flight should the carrier offer options such as transporting the service animal in the cargo hold or transportation on a later flight with more room. When transportation on a later flight is offered, carriers are strongly encouraged, but not required by Part 382, to allow any passenger who wishes to rebook on a different flight to the same destination and on the same airline to do so at the same fare. 

May 13, 2009
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities 
Under the Amended Air Carrier Access Act Regulation

_UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
OFFICE OF AVIATION ENFORCEMENT AND PROCEEDINGS
WASHINGTON, DC_


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## ILGHAUS

cloudpump said:


> So my mom's a flight attendant, and I asked her about this. Essentially everyone is spot on. She said that even though paperwork is required, JetBlue doesn't allow the flight attendants to ask to produce documentation. She's been snapped at a few times by dogs


Perhaps you misunderstood, but paperwork is not always required for Service Dogs. The only SDs that need documentation are Psychiatric Service Dogs (PSD). A PSD is a "real" Service Dog per the Department of Justice's definition. The reason they are now singled out is that too many people were flying with a pet dog and telling the airlines that their dog was a PSD. 

The paperwork is a letter from a licensed mental health professional that must follow a certain format that must be submitted to the airline a minimum of 48 hours in advance of the flight takeoff time.

Because of the "fakers" PSDs now are treated on the airlines in the same manner as an ESA. Here is what the airline industry says on that:

*34. May carriers require documentation that an animal accompanying a passenger with a disability is a service animal?* 

Answer: Generally no, except in limited circumstances as discussed below. Unless a foreign carrier has received a conflict of laws waiver permitting the carrier to impose such a requirement, or the carrier finds that the verbal assurances of the passenger are not credible and there are no other indications of the animal’s status such as a harness, tag or vest, the airline may not require such documentation. Carriers are permitted to require documentation for emotional support animals and psychiatric service animals.

*36. Must carriers accept emotional support and psychiatric support animals in the aircraft cabin?*

Answer: U.S. carriers must accept any emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable safety and animal health requirements and ensure that its foreign code share partners do the same on covered flights with respect to passengers traveling under the U.S. carrier’s code. Foreign carriers must accept any emotional support or psychiatric service dog in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable safety and animal health requirements on covered flights.

May 13, 2009
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities 
Under the Amended Air Carrier Access Act Regulation

_UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
OFFICE OF AVIATION ENFORCEMENT AND PROCEEDINGS
WASHINGTON, DC_


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## Thecowboysgirl

So, this is my mcok airplane training station in my basement lol. I stack chairs until there is no space for him but the piece of blue mat, and have taught him to be backed in and downed in there. Then i sit in the chair and we are practicing long downs where he only has the space of the blue mat.

The unfortunate part is that I think that mat is bigger than what he would have on a plane, just to eyeball it, but I had to start somewhere since for whatever reason, I really have never asked him to fit himself into a space where it is too small to turn around ect.

I did something similar to this befire my girl's first flight, I put some heavy arm chairs up against a wall so she had to back in and down in a small place in front of my feet so that was at least a mauever we were prepared for


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## Fodder

Unless you request bulkhead or purchase the seat next to you, it may be more beneficial for you to teach him to curl up in more of a square space. This can be accomplished in a car - the floor area on the passenger side.

Of all the dogs I've flown with - that was the space allowed to us on full flights.


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## kriver

Hi
Sure they can. You just switch vests. I did it all the time with my shepherd of course your not suppose to. LOL But I trained him for both. The idea is that a service dog when working is not to be touched or bothered. A therapy Dog is suppose to be petted and touched. When I was out with my dog a little 2-3yr kid ran up to him and gave him a hug. My dog handled that just fine. But if he hadn't been use to that kind of behavior it could have been problem. The father was totally irresponsible the kid was out of control. He didn't care if the kid got bit in the face or not. He was looking for a payday lawsuit.


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## NancyJ

I have flown a couple of times with a well behaved GSD in bulkhead (search and rescue stuff) That said, I was miserable enough to be willing to drive long distances to avoid it. Under 1000 miles and I am driving!

One thing I did before my trips was take dog to groomer for a really good bath and brushout the day before, small cup for ice chips, and carry an adhesive lint roller for dog hair. 80lb dog and feet on the bulkhead wall no fun. One time I got the entire back seat instead which actually worked out better but that was when they did not jam the airplanes so full.

SAR dogs on missions or training are allowed by the grace of the airlines which are not required to accommodate them.


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## Thecowboysgirl

I have even more respect for your working SAR dogs if they fly to a mission during which they can't be very well rested, and then they go right to it? Or do they get to rest first?


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## NancyJ

I have never flown to a mission. That is a question for disaster dog handler. I have flown to distant seminars and there the dogs have a chance to rest. Always been honest about it and have bent over backwards to be grateful they allow it.


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## Magwart

Huh...I have flown a ton for work and never had a SD seated in the bulkhead with me...or heard an announcement asking for someone willing to share space with a dog. I'd be utterly delighted to drape my legs over someone's GSD on a long flight. I'd FAR rather share my leg room with a well behaved dog than with some ridiculous "man-spreader"....and I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way!


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