# Release to eat?



## RockinIt (Jan 29, 2011)

I want to teach Pistol to wait until I release her to eat when the food is sitting right in front of her. I haven't taught the older dogs this (although I probably will if I have Pistol doing it). Is it just a sit-stay with a normal release or is there a better way to train it? Pistol's 10 weeks old. She does have sit down very well since we use it for putting on and taking off the leash when we go out for potty breaks, walks, etc. She doesn't have a stay yet. So I'm just trying to figure out the progression I need to follow to get there. Also...do you think the release for food should be the same as her normal release cue (we're working on "Free" for that). I would like to have "Amen" for her food release (yeah...I'm nerdy like this). I just wanted to see if you guys thought I was on spot with how to train this or to see how you guys trained your dogs to do it. 

Video for your viewing pleasure:


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

Just a sit-stay with a normal release.. unless you want to do it differently. My dogs know they don't eat when the food goes down. I don't sit or stay them. They just stand over the bowl and drool into it, watching me. Your pup is too early to do this with though... you could train it, but its asking too much for a puppy that young. For now, just make him sit-stay while you prepare it, and take a while walking to put it in front of him, making sure his eyes are on you as much as possible.


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

I just use a basic sit/wait at meal times. However, I also expect my dogs to NOT eat any food w/out permission. This means if someone drops food, the dog is expected not to eat it - if someone's plate is w/in reach, the dog is expected not to eat it....they get permission or they don't eat it. This is something we were expected to instill in the guide puppy my sister raised over 20 years ago and it has just stuck with me.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

BOHICA Bay said:


> I just use a basic sit/wait at meal times. However, I also expect my dogs to NOT eat any food w/out permission. This means if someone drops food, the dog is expected not to eat it - if someone's plate is w/in reach, the dog is expected not to eat it....they get permission or they don't eat it. This is something we were expected to instill in the guide puppy my sister raised over 20 years ago and it has just stuck with me.


Not to hijack, but I would love to know how you did this, if you could share the details (which might help the OP too).

So far Saber (12 weeks today) knows to "wait" (sit away from the food bag) while I dish up her food, and sit before I will put the dish down. I think that's a good start at this age, OP. You can get that down pat and then add the release later, maybe?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I did this for a while, but in my household the "wait" became like a starting line before a race. It got to where they were choking, they were bolting their food down so quickly. The only thing that changed was me making them sit and wait to be released. So I stopped and the eating slowed back down.


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## RockinIt (Jan 29, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> Just a sit-stay with a normal release.. unless you want to do it differently. My dogs know they don't eat when the food goes down. I don't sit or stay them. They just stand over the bowl and drool into it, watching me. Your pup is too early to do this with though... you could train it, but its asking too much for a puppy that young. For now, just make him sit-stay while you prepare it, and take a while walking to put it in front of him, making sure his eyes are on you as much as possible.


 
Thanks... I know she's too early to do the entire thing now, but I also know that if I have the finished product in mind while I'm working on baby stuff now I can make teaching the finished product a lot easier. I just wanted to make sure I was going to follow the right path to it. 

@Bohica...I like that idea...hmmmm 

@ Cassadee... I don't think you were high jacking the thread...what you were asking did go along with the topic.  At least in my opinion it was helpful.  Let's hope Bohica comes back to explain!


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

It was a progressive work on impulse control really. If you think about it, a working guide dog must ignore/resist any and all food that they are not supposed to have. Because their human is sight impared, it would be all too easy for someone to give the dog inappropriate food or for the dog to pick it up on their own. To avoid this issue, the puppy is taught to eat only from their bowl or from their handler/someone only after express permission from the handler to take/eat the food. Some guide schools that do puppy raising actually go so far as to require use of only praise rewards vs. treat rewards on the theory that it will help to eliminate the temptation for taking food, etc even further. The school we worked with at the time was okay with treats but the treat had to become associated with having permission to take it. The pups were expected to learn to refuse any/all food whether dropped, found or offered by someone without the express permission of their handler to eat that food.
It was not easy, but it was done as a basic impulse control training.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I don't utilize verbage to release my dog - I have a hand signal. I may say something at that time, but he looks for the signal to be released. As we have livestock, I wanted to make sure if I have him in a down (for his safety) that he doesn't release because I'm speaking to the livestock.


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## CPH (Sep 8, 2010)

We started training this at 14 weeks with our GSD. We would put the leash on him and one of us would prepare food and the other would put him in a sit-stay. Every time he went to get up we corrected and put him back into sit-stay. We started putting the food down and making him wait 2 seconds, then 4, then 6 etc. before releasing to build up to it. Hunterisgreat is right she is too young to be expected to resist very long. If you try to make her wait to long your just setting her up for failure.


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## DCluver33 (May 27, 2010)

I put my dog in a down all the way across the room on his bed then every week or so i'd wait a little bit longer to release him. I use a work completely different than his release word for stay/wait. Stay/wait = Hund Food= Bird. I wanted random words we don't use in typical conversations. I'm slowly moving him closer so he understand that even if he's right on top of the food he can't touch the food until released.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

I just have a release word for everything, and I use the same word. I taught him he isn't allowed to do the following without hearing the release word:
1. in / out of the car
2. in / out of the door
3. eat
4. Drink water (if I just put it down)
Just use body blocks and release the moment the pup shows any hesitation or stops his forward movement (really you want to release the instant you see hesitation for the beginning, especially with a pup), then increase the increments. If you do THE SAME THING EVERY SINGLE TIME you put the food down, the pup will get the idea.

Hope this helps!


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## RockinIt (Jan 29, 2011)

CPH said:


> We started training this at 14 weeks with our GSD. We would put the leash on him and one of us would prepare food and the other would put him in a sit-stay. Every time he went to get up we corrected and put him back into sit-stay. We started putting the food down and making him wait 2 seconds, then 4, then 6 etc. before releasing to build up to it. Hunterisgreat is right she is too young to be expected to resist very long. If you try to make her wait to long your just setting her up for failure.


The first part of your reply was very helpful. As I'd already stated though...I know she's too young to do the full exercise right now. 14 weeks for this pup is only 3 weeks and 3 days from now. It is not too early to be thinking about HOW to do it. 



ayoitzrimz said:


> I just have a release word for everything, and I use the same word. I taught him he isn't allowed to do the following without hearing the release word:
> 1. in / out of the car
> 2. in / out of the door
> 3. eat
> ...


Thanks... I liked this reply...especially when you talked about how to do it. It was very helpful.


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## 96Firebird (May 29, 2010)

I taught my guy how to do this, just so he learned where the food was coming from and who he had to listen to to get it. From what I remember, since he was very food driven we told him to sit and he would immediately. Then, we said stay and set the bowl down a couple feet away from him. If he tried to get up we picked the bowl up and tried again. A lot of repetition before he got it. Next, we taught the look command, so he would look into our eyes before he could have the food. This was to make sure he wasn't just fixated on the food. After he looked for a few seconds, good boy, release word, joy. Here he was at 6 months old, waiting to be released by my girlfriend...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I use the same release word for everything too, I think that's less confusing for the dog. At 14 weeks I don't think your pup is too young for this exercise, but you do need to adapt it to her abilities. Here is Halo at 15 weeks, we started this as soon as we got her at 10 weeks old:










We don't do it on leash, I just body block if necessary. My hubby is standing in as the feeder here so I could take a decent picture, but I do the feeding and training.

I started by lowering the bowl to the floor. If she broke her sit, I stood back up and waited for her to sit again. This is a default behavior so I didn't give any commands, but if you need to cue a sit, that's fine. I do not use "stay" or "watch" in this exercise, I just wait for what I want and I don't proceed until I get it. (My hubby insists on telling the dogs what to do when he feeds them even though I keep telling him that if he just waits, they'll do it on their own! :headbang 

I did this as many times as I needed to until she stayed in a sit with the bowl on the floor. At first I released her immediately when the bowl touched the floor, then gradually worked up to releasing her when I took my hands off the bowl, then to standing all the way up, to stepping away from the bowl, to having her closer to the bowl than I was, to closing the pen door before releasing so she was on one side and I was on another, to putting her in a down with the bowl right under her nose, to walking out of sight for a moment, to leaving the room briefly to refill the water dish and coming back to release. 

As long as you begin at an appropriate level for your pup's age and ability, make it more difficult in tiny increments and only after your dog has mastered the previous step, you can start this with a brand new puppy. Impulse control around food is a wonderful thing!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Poor quality picture, but here's Keefer at a few days under 5 months old, with the door between us closed:










One time he did break his stay and dive into the bowl, and I calmly picked it up and made him wait while he watched Dena eat her food. When she was done, I put his bowl down and we did it again. That was the last time he tried that.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a three drool rule. I want to see three drops of drool from each dog into their bowl before they can eat. Trying very hard now, to proceed each command with a dog name so I can command dogs individually... I'm about 85% there now.


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## slefferd (Jan 11, 2011)

I on the other hand do not think that 10 weeks is too young to train this. My pup has been preforming this task since about 8-9 weeks, 10 weeks consistantly, now he's 15 weeks and tests me occassionly, I just pick his food/water back up and start over.
But heres what I did.......I put the dog in sit, preped his food, set the bowls on the floor, and he stays untill I say "eat". He caught on to this very quick, but at the same time we work on stay quite a bit.....


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

We also started this immediately at 8 weeks old and he never moves until we give him the "OK". Sometimes I forget and have to go back to release (OK) him. We made him go to his bed and lay down during prep,now it's just automatic.


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## Jenni (Feb 2, 2009)

I also started this when Rosco was about 10 weeks. I use a sit and wait, with an "okay" to release with a hand gesture. I also made sure all the kids do this as well, even the then 2 year old. She is now 4 an can command him fairly well!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

once my dog knew sit and stay i could have him wait for his food.
i use to make my dog wait just outside of the
kitchen door for his food. after a while he started waiting
at the door without me saying anything.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I use the same release word for everything too, I think that's less confusing for the dog. At 14 weeks I don't think your pup is too young for this exercise, but you do need to adapt it to her abilities. Here is Halo at 15 weeks, we started this as soon as we got her at 10 weeks old:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a cute picture !!


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

Funny video!

It is actually quite easy to train if you want (please see a potential pitfall below), just put the dog in a sit/stay, start putting it down, if they get up, pull it back, until they get the sit/stay part. They will be super motivated to get it right. Then give your release word/cue and they will do the rest. Eventually they may do the staying part on their own and just wait for your release.

I used to do something like that, but being a Cesar Millan fan, I saw him feeding his pack once, and he would call the dog over, have it sit wait a moment, then put the food down. He didn't make the dog sit with the food in front of him waiting to eat it.

I now use his approach for 2 reasons: 1)the dog has earned it by sitting calmly, that's enough for me; 2) IMO you need to be cautious how often you pair the release (whether it's a word, a nod, etc.) to something enticing (or, something more enticing than they earned for staying). It is great that a dog stays and is rewarded for staying, but by releasing a dog to his food bowl you are rewarding being free. That is the same reason that I do not like releasing a dog to chase something (frisbee) when proofing a stay command. The more tantalizing reward should be attached to staying, not to being released.

Here is a video which shows Cesar feeding various dogs, not the one I had originally seen but better than nothing.

Sessions With Cesar Millan: Dog Rituals (Pets)


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

On another note, just last week I made a boneheaded mistake:
I was rushing to leave the house right after our afternoon walk and having played a little fetch the dog was thirsty. Anyway I was rushing through my routine (boots, fill water bowl, grab stuff, get the **** out of the house) and I just put the water bowl down and go to grab my bookbag. I come back and there's Einstein drooling over the water bowl... I felt like an idiot!! Gave him the release word and he almost attacked the water 

Anyway, proud moment as a dog owner but I still felt stupid about it


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

ayoitzrimz said:


> On another note, just last week I made a boneheaded mistake:
> I was rushing to leave the house right after our afternoon walk and having played a little fetch the dog was thirsty. Anyway I was rushing through my routine (boots, fill water bowl, grab stuff, get the **** out of the house) and I just put the water bowl down and go to grab my bookbag. I come back and there's Einstein drooling over the water bowl... I felt like an idiot!! Gave him the release word and he almost attacked the water
> 
> Anyway, proud moment as a dog owner but I still felt stupid about it


We don't use any restraints with water,I'd retrain that.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

lrodptl said:


> We don't use any restraints with water,I'd retrain that.


I don't know about all that, and definitely think that without giving reason for your comment we can't really get a meaningful discussion going here, but I'll state my case anyway.

He's allowed to come and drink when he wants and he does, but when I put the water bowl down after refilling it (which I do when it's empty) he's not allowed to just charge in and start drinking. He has to wait for the release. This way, when we visit my mother (who was afraid of dogs for a long time), she can refill his water without him giving her a jolt by rushing in while she is still bent down at his level.


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## Lesley1905 (Aug 25, 2010)

Brody knows to only eat on my command also. Before we started him with eating, we were doing it when we would throw the ball for him. As he was growing up he was really trying to be dominant over us. My trainer told me to do those exercises with him and he has been much better! I do feel horrible when he's sitting there drooling lol


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## My2Furkids (Sep 21, 2010)

I use the "Wait" command for food, followed by the release "Take it" Like the other posters have said, it was easy to train my 2 on this, using the method of if they do something wrong, pick up the food and start over. They catch on super quickly! Good luck


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## RockinIt (Jan 29, 2011)

lrodptl said:


> We don't use any restraints with water,I'd retrain that.


I have to agree with the previous poster that without anything further you're really not adding to the discussion with that. I think I understand what you're getting at by not restraining the dog to drink, but at the same time I could find a lot of use for it. 

While I do intend to compete with Pistol in Obedience her main purpose will be to act as my hiking companion (DH doesn't want me to hike alone...I generally dislike hiking with other people). With that I don't think I'll always want her to jump in to drink just any water we happen to find on the trail. We do carry water for our dogs as well as for ourselves when we hike...so it would be nice to control that.

As far as actually starting any work on this command...it's on hold. Pistol has been sick since last night with vomitting, diarrhea and some mild lethargy (She is doing much better tonight). There's a thread about that in the health & wellness area. We'll come back to this after I get my puppy back to 100%.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

RockinIt said:


> I have to agree with the previous poster that without anything further you're really not adding to the discussion with that. I think I understand what you're getting at by not restraining the dog to drink, but at the same time I could find a lot of use for it.
> 
> While I do intend to compete with Pistol in Obedience her main purpose will be to act as my hiking companion (DH doesn't want me to hike alone...I generally dislike hiking with other people). With that I don't think I'll always want her to jump in to drink just any water we happen to find on the trail. We do carry water for our dogs as well as for ourselves when we hike...so it would be nice to control that.
> 
> As far as actually starting any work on this command...it's on hold. Pistol has been sick since last night with vomitting, diarrhea and some mild lethargy (She is doing much better tonight). There's a thread about that in the health & wellness area. We'll come back to this after I get my puppy back to 100%.


Sorry to hear about Pistol! I was going through much of the same with my dog when he was a puppy, despite giving him ample exercise as well as high quality food (orijen lbp then switched over to Acana Pacifica). Anyway hope the pup feels better!


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## jayd215 (Dec 23, 2010)

have you tried teaching the wait command with one piece of kibble at a time? an obedience exercise i do with my dog is to put her in sit or down position, pull out a treat, put it where she can reach and tell her to wait. you could start this with a puppy and work to increase the time she has to wait. it might be easier to master the trick one treat at a time before you try to master it next to her bowl. i'd use the same release command for this trick that you eventually want to use with her food bowl.

good luck!


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