# Yes, ANOTHER Kibble/Raw thread... how much?



## JulieAG (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi all. I have a VERY active 13 month old male intact GSD. He weights approximately 72 pounds right now. He has been kind of a challenge because as he is constantly moving all day long and he has also been a picky eater, so I've recently been having a bit of trouble keeping weight on him. He isn't grossly underweight, but he could definitely use a couple more pounds and muscle tone. Up until about 2 weeks ago he was eating Acana prairie harvest. In the evening I would add a mixture of boiled chicken with the broth, sweet potato and peas, along with Nupro joint support, mainly to get him to eat the Nupro because he doesn't seem to like it at all (I won't be buying more after finishing this jar). I recently moved north to NJ and wasn't sure if I could find the Acana around here... and I was also not completely thrilled on how he was doing on it (stools were typically soft, though formed), and so I decided to try Innova. I transitioned gradually, and he seems to be doing very well on it. Very solid poops right now! Basically I would like to try supplementing the kibble in the morning with raw perhaps 4 times a week in the evenings. I just bought some of the Primal chicken grinds to start out with. I am just not sure how much of each I should be feeding per day. Eventually once he adjusts I would like to give him RMBS (chicken quarter or neck) once a week and rotate the variety of primal grinds. Does anyone else supplement with the premade raw? How much do you give of each? Any input would be awesome. Thanks!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't know if this is the correct way to do it, but what I had been doing when I feed kibble and raw is feed the raw in the morning, kibble in the evening. I took the guidelines on the raw food package for the recommended amount per day to feed and fed half of that. I did the same for the kibble. However I was told that it might be better to alternate days so feed kibble one day and raw the next, so I have been doing that instead.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

This is just an FYI for anyone that cares 









If you feed a 50/50 diet make sure the raw is balanced, if you feed 20% (I've seen both 20% and 30% so I error on the side of caution) raw or less you don't have to be as concerned that it's a full balanced diet. 

So when using a prepared raw be sure to check if it's intended for supplimental feeding or is a complete diet (I use a subblimental)


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Oh and when I feed sometimes the raw is right in with the kibble, sometimes it's fed seperatly, sometimes in the morning, sometimes at night, sometimes in the kitchen, sometimes outside.....







Never had an issue


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I feed a half raw, half kibble diet. What I find to be the easiest is to feed the kibble as one meal (breakfast for me, but it doesn't really matter) and raw for another. I literally feed half of the recommended amount. 

So: it is recommended to feed 2-3% of a dogs IDEAL weight. Notice that this is not necessarily their CURRENT weight. If you think your dog is too thin at 72 lbs and you would like him closer to 75 lb or whatever, feed based on that weight.

If you think the dog needs to gain weight, feed the higher percent (3.) However, since you're only feed it once a date cut that in half and feed 1.5% of your dogs IDEAL weight. This is what I do.

On the 4 days a week you want to feed raw simply eliminate a kibble meal and replace it with raw. I do not used premade so you will need to decide between premade that you can buy in the store and buying meat and balancing the diet yourself. I, personally, find premade too expensive and do not mind the extra time put into preparing Jerzey's meals myself so I buy food from the grocery store.

You will want to do some research on the amount of RMB (raw meaty bones) vs MM (muscle meat) vs OM (organ meat) you'll want to feed. There are varying recommendations so do your research and start with the one that makes you feel more comfortable. Some dogs require a very strict bone-to-meat ratio. Others, like Jerzey, do not.

This is generally how I make Jerzey's meals:

I feed Jerzey 1.5% of 80 lbs so she eats about about 19 oz of food a day.


First, I throw in an oz or two of organ meat. For me, this is either beef or chicken liver. I buy one type, use it all and then buy the other. This is the only OM I have access to so this is what I use. Some recommend that you should feed 10% organ meat, with 5% being liver. Because, as I said, I only have access to liver I feed just about 5% This puts her at .9 oz of OM. Sometimes she gets a little more but that doesn't seem to affect her stools so I'm not horribly strict about it.

I buy chicken quarters as her RMB. These are constantly on sale for around .70 cents a lb and form a majority of her diet. After adding an oz or two of liver, I throw in a chicken quarter. Sometimes this quarters will make up her entire meal because they weight over a pound. This isn't too common, though. As I said, Jerzey doesn't require a very strict bone to meat ratio so she is fine just eating a chicken quarter and liver for dinner. If the quarter is under 19 oz, which is more common, I add some kind of ground meat as an MM. I've general use ground beef, lamb, turkey... and simply add enough to bring her meal up to 19 oz.

Overall, I'd say it's pretty freakin' easy to do! 

When you start, the rules are a bit different. You want to pick just ONE protein source. Chicken is cheap and easy to get so I'd start with that. Don't add any OM just yet... that can cause loose stools in newly raw fed dogs. You'll add that later.

You have two options when you start with raw chicken:

1.) Buy whole fryer hens and, using kitchen scissors, cut the chicken up into 3 or 4 meals. This isn't hard to do at all (!) and allows you to basically have the perfect bone-to-meat ratio since its the entire prey! 

2.) You can buy chicken RMB (chicken quarters, legs, wings, breast with BONE IN!) and MM (ground chicken or chicken breast, it must be without bone) and measure out the specific amounts of eat. Some people recommend 60% RMB and 30% MM others less RMB and more MM. It's about about personal preference based on the research you have done as well as your dog. Each dog requires a slightly different bone-to-meat ration so pick one and give it a try. If, after a week or two, your dog seems to consistently be straining to poop (an indication of too much bone) or having loose poops (an indication of not enough bone) then adjust accordingly.

Once you are able to get a few weeks of good poops on the chicken RMB and MM diet as in a chicken OM. After another week or two of good poops you can start to add variety. Variety is the key to a healthy raw diet. You need to add AS MUCH variety as you can get your hands on (and afford)! When adding new protein sources, add just one thing at a time. For example, you could eliminate the chicken MM and add ground beef instead. Continue to wait for a week or two of good poops before maybe substituting the chicken RMB for a turkey one.

The diet is slow a first, and some dogs adjust to new protein sources more quickly than others. As you start to figure out the diet and how it works with YOUR dog you'll be able to get a better feel for how slowly or quickly you can add new protein sources and which ones work for your dog.

As far as supplements, veggies and any additional little extras... those are a matter of personal preference. At the moment, I only give Jerzey fish oil for her dry coat. I may, the next time around, try to find with that includes vit E based on the research I've seen popping up here lately. You really just have to read around and see what you think you would like to feed your dog. Everyone has different opinions that will offer you a great starting place. Read the older posts on the B.A.R.F/Raw Feeding forum to start to build a solid knowledge about the raw diet.

If your confused about what could constitute as an RMB, MM, and OM or what kind of supplements/extras people feed check out the "Our Dogs Menus" thread. It lists what people feed their dogs from day to day and will give you an idea of what kinds of things you can feed your dog safely. 

Remember, if you have any questions don't be afraid to ask!







I hope this offers a good starting point. Good luck! And please let us know how it goes.


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