# Terrible First Night of Obedience Class



## KellySue301 (Jul 16, 2015)

Hello everyone! Blaze is now 10 months old (will be a year in May!) and he has been showing that typical teenage behavior...really testing the waters. Most apparent is his constant barking at people and dogs when we go on walks. Once he greets the people he is fine, gives a sniff and is done caring. But he is much worse with the barking at other dogs. He has never shown dog aggression (plays with the dogs once he gets close enough) but we felt it was time to get him into some obedience training to make sure this doesn't get much worse..so we went to our first night of training with a trainer that apparently breeds GSD (that's why we figured she would be perfect). 

It was a group class with about 4 or 5 other dogs that all had some type of issue...but one in particular, a Giant Schnauzer, was dog reactive like Blaze. The trainer started Blaze and I away from the dogs to "assess" Blaze and he barked like mad as soon as we walked into the building. She eventually said he will be okay to be with the group once he calmed down a little. We went in and I tried to keep him sitting at my side focused on me (was her instructions..with no direction on how I should be trying to get his focus off the other dogs...) and eventually she split the class into the GS and Blaze and the others on the other side of the building with a different instructor. She had us separated by a small plastic fence and was having us do an exercise where we walked forward, walked them in a small circle, then kept going forward. Blaze was doing quite well, until the lady with the GS messed up and her dog got too close to Blaze and it lunged at him to attack. Blaze lost his mind like I have never seen before, and I could tell this was much different than him barking to get attention..he wanted to kill that dog. After that, he would not stop focusing on this dog even if it was across the room. The trainer had us walk past each other at least 5 more times and it was the same song and dance..the other dog would lunge, Blaze would lunge and bark and it was an absolute mess. The instructor ended the session early and the other woman kept saying her dog was nervous because of Blaze..however Blaze has never acted this way in his life (we have a Golden Retriever as well and they're inseparable best friends)..the instructor says "Yeah if I had a dime for every time I heard that" when I told her that. I know Blaze is a pretty nervous dog and walked in there nervous, he hates the car and it was a 30 minute drive and he gets uneasy when in new places. Every time Blaze reacted we would correct him with his prong collar but eventually he just didn't even care about it. We will be going back next week, but I really don't feel it is smart to be putting two reactive dogs together? During the session the instructor answered her cell phone three separate times, had a full blown conversation, and had her kids messing around the side of the arena and running into the middle to talk to her..it just felt pretty unprofessional, but she is the only trainer that I have found that is okay with Blaze being on a prong collar and believes in correcting rather than 100% positive training techniques. I know he needs to be in classes, but I feel this class messed him up worse than he even was before..after the GS left another person from the other group walked over to us when we were filling out paper work and he took his eyes off his Beagle and it walked close to Blaze and Blaze went nuts. At the beginning of class he was really showing promise because he was beginning to ignore the other dogs after being there for a few minutes. I don't know what to do...

Sorry for the extreme length, just feeling a bit uneasy about the whole thing..maybe I'm wrong and it's normal to put the bad ones together - if so, and I just need to give him time, let me know! But apparently the GS has been in the program for 12 weeks which worries me as well.


----------



## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

This is why people do private lessons. You can learn how to train your dog without the drama. I had the instructor also let me audit, for free, her group class at the same time I was doing private lessons.

Then I went to a Schutzhund club where only one or two dogs are out at once and I learned how to get my GSD to focus on me, and only me. My guy learned not to react to other dogs in this controlled situation. The thing is, in a club setting, the other dogs are all focused on their owners, so my dog couldn't make eye contact with other dogs, which defused the situation for my dog. In this way my dog LEARNED to ignore other dogs and just focus on me.

My GSD cannot be in a traditional group AKC setting where dogs are within a few feet of each other for an hour at a time. But, I can take my guy out of my vehicle, actively work him in obedience at the park, and then, put him away again in my vehicle. This works.


----------



## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

That "trainer" set both dogs up to fail. You don't fix dog reactivity by throwing the reactive dog face to face with another reactive dog. I would demand my money back (at least for any remaining classes that you likely already paid for) and find a real, working-dog trainer, not another one of these "pet trainer" types. From what you've described (initially reactive, then very friendly), it should be quite simple to fix your dog's reactivity (by a person that knows what they're doing).


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This is not a good class. If it were me, I'd cut my losses and keep looking.


----------



## KellySue301 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you for the quick responses everyone - glad I am not just overreacting.We haven't paid yet, it is $20 for each class and she only takes cash which we were unaware of before arriving so she is letting us pay her the next time we go. I think finding an actual working-dog trainer would be great..we live in Berks County, PA if any of you have any recommendations!


----------



## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

A cheap "lesson learned" IMO.


----------



## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

I'm not impressed with this "trainer".

Have you tried contacting your area's IPO club? They may be able to direct you to a trainer that knows the breed who you would be more comfortable with .


----------



## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Very Unimpressive trainer. She sound very unprofessional. I wouldn't pay her a dime.


----------



## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

agree with others.

Trainer set up dogs to fail


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Agree with the others - this was a terrible class! I can't believe that with only 4 or 5 other dogs, the trainer was not able to control the class or give appropriate direction to prevent these incidents! Sounds very unprofessional. I used to assist in large classes (up to 10 or 20 dogs), and we never allowed these type of things to happen. The class had a lot of assistants to make sure that everyone got help and one - on - one assistance if needed. 

I'd ask around for some other place, and always a good idea to ask if you could go and observe a class before deciding to sign up.


----------



## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I take my puppy to von Ibso in Millerstown, PA, not too far from you. They are some of the best GSD trainers around and have a really nice indoor facility. They specialize in IPO but I think they also do just general dog training/behavior issues. Joe and Lindsay (the owners) are really nice people and have tons of knowledge about GSDs. IBSO K9 - Working German Shepherds. I personally would not go back to the class you had been to before. As Moriah said Schutzhund/IPO type training would be good so that it keeps your dog's focus on you and not other dogs.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Terrible teacher and very stupid about dogs. I would wait until it warms up and find an outdoor class. Mine is very leash reactive but does well in a large group. We always work on the edges and gradually get closer. I stay away from reactive dogs. I also try to find some calmer dogs, talk to the owners and ask if mine can shadow them in the class. No one has ever said no. It worked with all of my rescues and is now working out very well for my puppy. Eventually your dog needs to ignore all distractions include snarling dogs but it won't happen in that class.

Our class is cheap and good. I also found the bigger the class the better. My dog will react to one dog, but he can't react to 20.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Good idea to switch trainers most of the time we have 15 dogs or more in the class. 3 or 4 in some of the classes may be dog reactive including mine. For the most part of the classes -it occasionally happens-you would not hear one dog bark at another. If you have a dog who you have trouble controlling a private lesson may be the way to go.


----------



## KellySue301 (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you all very much for the advice! I emailed my local IPO Club asking for recommendations for trainers, just waiting on a response now. Really don't even want to go back to this trainer next week but we did not pay for his first class and she has all of my information lol otherwise we would probably just not show up...


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If you are obligated to take one more class, go by yourself to observe and learn what you can, but leave your dog home.


----------



## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> If you are obligated to take one more class, go by yourself to observe and learn what you can, but leave your dog home.


X2. And why stress your dog unnecessarily with a long drive. Another point: imho it is very irresponsible to allow children near a group of strange dogs. From a mother's view what was she thinking.

Hope you get a quick reply from the club.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Can't you mail her payment for the first class? I'd ask about that.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

KellySue301 said:


> Thank you for the quick responses everyone - glad I am not just overreacting.We haven't paid yet, it is $20 for each class and she only takes cash which we were unaware of before arriving so she is letting us pay her the next time we go. *I think finding an actual working-dog trainer would be great..we live in Berks County, PA if any of you have any recommendations!*


that would be Jim and Barb Hill. Recommended in your other thread.


----------



## KellySue301 (Jul 16, 2015)

Sorry for this late reply, everyone! Been having some computer issues. Anyway, still no email from the local IPO so I may give them a call one day this week if I still don't hear anything.

Jax - I checked them out, but they're about an hour away from where I live which would be way too long of a car ride for Blaze. He can barely handle the 30 minute drive to this other facility. But thank you! I really appreciate it!

I am about to send the "trainer" an email now asking if payment through mail would be acceptable..hopefully she has no issue with it and this whole thing can be put behind us! Yeah, the children were all over the place, it was just a complete mess..


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why can't he handle more than 30 minute car ride?


----------



## annabirdie (Jul 3, 2015)

yuriy said:


> That "trainer" set both dogs up to fail. You don't fix dog reactivity by throwing the reactive dog face to face with another reactive dog. I would demand my money back (at least for any remaining classes that you likely already paid for) and find a real, working-dog trainer, not another one of these "pet trainer" types. From what you've described (initially reactive, then very friendly), it should be quite simple to fix your dog's reactivity (by a person that knows what they're doing).


Yes!!!!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

KellySue301 said:


> I am about to send the "trainer" an email now asking if payment through mail would be acceptable..hopefully she has no issue with it and this whole thing can be put behind us! Yeah, the children were all over the place, it was just a complete mess..


Considering how crappy the class was, I'd probably just not show up again. If the trainer contacted me about payment for the one class I attended I'd offer to send a check, but I don't know that I'd go out of my way to pay for something that did more harm than good. And I'm really not that kind of person! But this class sounded SO bad that even $20 was more than it was worth.


----------



## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> Terrible teacher and very stupid about dogs. I would wait until it warms up and find an outdoor class.* Mine is very leash reactive but does well in a large group. *We always work on the edges and gradually get closer. *I stay away from reactive dogs.* I *also try to find some calmer dogs, talk to the owners and ask if mine can shadow them in the class.* No one has ever said no. It worked with all of my rescues and is now working out very well for my puppy. *Eventually your dog needs to ignore all distractions include snarling dogs but it won't happen in that class.*
> 
> Our class is cheap and good. I also found the bigger the class the better. My dog will react to one dog, but he can't react to 20.


I agree with luvshepherds. With the way you you describe your dog, I'll bet he'd do well in a lg. group of well behaved, non-reactive and calm dogs. 
We rescued our former shepherd and he was reactive toward male dogs and some men.
We started out with private training then group training (same trainer). 
My dog was excellent in the group, even off leash.

Thinking back, his good behavior was probably due to there being no other reactive dog in the class.

Ps. I would send a $20 check to pay for the 1st class as Castlemaid suggested.


----------



## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

I'm sorry you and Blaze had such a terrible first night, that is not how training should be! I really hope you find a good trainer to help you. Just a thought, as I noticed you said every time Blaze lunged you corrected, but was the leash already tight? In any training I've done, the best corrections are made when you have a bit of give in the leash. Otherwise you are just pulling on a dog trying to get them back but not really correcting, even with a prong. Just my 2 cents, which, since I'm Canadian, is not worth much at the current exchange rate


----------



## KellySue301 (Jul 16, 2015)

Yes, I agree I think he would have done much better in a setting where the other dogs were non-reactive and calm. He was starting to ignore the other dogs in the larger class during the beginning of the session, but then the trainer put him and the other reactive dog together and that's when all **** broke loose. 

In the car he pants heavily, can't sit still, drools, etc. Eventually he vomits if he's in there long enough. He's gotten better, but I don't want to push it too fast with him.

We were going to give the trainer a check, but she takes cash only!  Otherwise, I wouldn't have even told her that we weren't coming back lol.

He's a leash puller, so yeah his leash was tight pretty much the whole session lol. The trainer didn't say anything about it, just kept telling me to keep him under control. But yes, my goal is getting him to stop pulling the leash! That's half the reason for doing the training, along with the dog reactivity.


----------



## LittleBear (Apr 1, 2016)

Ridiculous trainer advice and on the first night! You haven't learned anything from them yet, that's why you were there, to learn from the trainer, yet the best advice they can give is control the dog?! Yup, I'd not be going back. You'll get there, I'm sure with a good trainer, you'll get Blaze back on track. As far as the car travel, maybe try short trips, and nowhere in particular, so he becomes used to the car without associating it with going somewhere that is stressful?


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

KellySue301 said:


> We were going to give the trainer a check, but she takes cash only!


That is a red flag in itself. I would send her a check anyways, saying that you don't do cash and a note why you left. I'll bet you will never hear anything back since she works under the radar.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Send her the $20 check. 

She probably wants cash, because she doesn't want to have to claim the money she is making. That's her tough luck. Don't send cash in the mail, and don't darken her door again.

Group classes are a good idea, especially if you are working on reactivity. You do not work on reactivity in a vacuum. But putting the two reactive dogs together, and repeatedly make them get up close and personal, well that was a recipe for disaster. In the future, be sure you can get in between anyone's dog and yours -- protect your puppy.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

KellySue301 said:


> In the car he pants heavily, can't sit still, drools, etc. Eventually he vomits if he's in there long enough. He's gotten better, but I don't want to push it too fast with him.


Ahhh the dreaded car sickness.

Call your vet and ask for Cerenia for motion sickness. works like a charm.

So a few things worked for Seger. The Cerenia was a life saver! Follow the directions to the letter.

I had to keep him in the front seat. Not sure why but there must be less motion there. 

Then I moved him to a solid sided crate facing backwards as he got older.

Personally, since he's 10 months, use the Cerenia and get him to a trainer to deal with this reactivity before he fully matures. You will have a really hard time after that.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Maybe not the dog, but you learned a valuable lesson for the $20.00; checking out a new trainer very carefully before you commit and do not go there with your dog before you have observed a class and ask how she would go about your dog if you need to solve a problem behavior.


----------



## KellySue301 (Jul 16, 2015)

Well she emailed me back saying to not worry about paying for the first class, that she is sorry it did not work out and hopes that maybe in the future we can work something out/come back...not even going to bother to reply, lol. At least that's behind us now..

I've thought about drugging him to calm his nerves in the car, but he has gone from not being able to last a short 10 minutes without vomiting /diarrhea to being able to handle at least 30 minutes with some anxiety so we're hoping the more he rides and we get him used to it, the better he will get with that!

Yeah, when she told us at the end of class she only accepts cash because she "has had too many checks bounce" it pretty much sealed the deal.

Still having some trouble finding a good trainer in our area, I've been googling and reading the suggestions but everyone is at least an hour away and I would really like to do controlled group classes with him as I feel he will learn the best that way rather than private one-on-one with a trainer. Still waiting on that IPO Club to get back to us as well.

Just wanted to say thank you to all of you, you have all been very encouraging and so helpful!!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ya know what, after that experience, I probably would wait a good 2-3 months before trying another class anyway. It might be a good time to work on distance in the car. Do something fun before getting in the car, drive 20 minutes, do something fun on the other end, then drive back home, and do something fun again. 

The next day, do 5 minute drive, do something the dog likes, a short walk, a walk in the park, a pull on the tug, a a couple of fun tricks, and then back home again. 

The next day try 35 minutes. 

The next day, 10 minutes. 

The next day 12 minutes. 

The next day 40 minutes. 

Just once a day. 

One day take him to the vet just to weigh him. 

Another day, take him to your local Drug Mart and just stand or sit outside with him. 

Try to do something fun and happy, 75% of the time. 

Good luck.


----------



## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

KellySue301- Cerenia is just an anti-nausea med. It shouldn't change your dog's behavior or have any effect on his anxiety. I'm not usually a medication pusher, but if he vomits all the time in the car, it might be worth a try.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Cerenia isn't for anxiety. It's for nausea and vomiting. Did you ever think that maybe his anxiety in the car is caused by the fact that he knows the motion is going to make him sick? At one point, Seger refused to get in the car. Who could blame him? He knew that it would make him feel bad.

I'm going to be blunt here. Your dog is 10 months old. He is not a puppy any longer. He's starting to develop reactive behaviors. It's time to get him to a trainer and get this under control so a year from now you aren't starting a thread on how aggressive he is. So do what you have to do to get him to a good trainer.

An hour? I drive almost 3 hours on a regular basis. You give the Cerenia prior to a lesson, it does not make them sleepy like dramamine, and it works like a charm. There are some dogs that never outgrow motion sickness. If that's the case, what will your plan be then?


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Max never was crazy about the car my thoughts were car sickness. As a little pup he cried on small trips. We made sure all our trips were to fun places and not a long ride. I made sure my rides were smooth and not short stops and wide turns. He stopped crying as he grew and his only protest would be pulling at the leash away from the car when we got to the car but would settle in okay. That eventually stopped also. Now he gets in the car like big boy and settles in because he knows he is always going somewhere fun.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

10 months old IS a puppy. In fact, 18 months old is a puppy. If my dog had a situation that this dog had, I would give him a little time before starting over with a clean slate. A LOT of reactive behavior has to do with lack of trust that the owner can protect him, so he has to protect himself. 

This owner allowed the dog to be in a situation where the dog was extremely vulnerable and he had to protect himself. So, now the owner needs to build back the relationship. Going in the car, doing some fun stuff, and making this totally up-beat, with no close exposure to other dogs/people, the dog can become a little more relaxed with the owner as he matures a few more months.

Trying again at 13 months, with a better bond, less stress in the vehicle and with a better trainer, the OP has a good chance of improving the situation considerably.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I agree that at 10mos, its time to get things under control. At 18mos, 2 years, and so on it just gets harder and harder and at 10 mos, he's old enough to handle some pressure and not ruin your relationship. Sometimes just the idea of going somewhere can build up enough anticipation it can lead to getting car sick. Have you ever tried just putting him in the car and leaving him till he calms down, then taking him back out?


----------



## Luvpups (Jan 12, 2016)

The same thing just happened to me. We adopted a 6 years old gsd about 4 months ago and took her to professionals to be evaluated. They did it all wrong and the wonderful people in these forums let me know she (our dog) was set up to fail. This sounds like the trainer was not focused on the class at all. I am currently looking into trainers that do free consultations so I don't make the same mistake for the fourth time now lol, "trainers" are all different and have different methods, you just have to keep trying to get the one that best fits your situation. I know your struggle! I have begun to google top rated trainers who deal with the issues we are having with ours and I have evaluations scheduled with some already. Good luck! And I know how frustrating it is when you trust a pro to help and it seems the situation only gets worse after you go!! Fingers crossed for you!


----------

