# Probiotics?



## ruxinsmom (May 23, 2017)

We've started to give our 17 week old GSD puppy probiotics. We've been using FortiFlora by Purina and we've seen improvement in his diarrhea. We are wanting to know when to stop giving it to him or if we are okay to do it every single day? We want to give it to him long enough to take care of the diarrhea completely but we also are thinking about keeping him on it everyday or at least every other day. Opinions?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

ruxinsmom said:


> We've started to give our 17 week old GSD puppy probiotics. We've been using FortiFlora by Purina and we've seen improvement in his diarrhea. We are wanting to know when to stop giving it to him or if we are okay to do it every single day? We want to give it to him long enough to take care of the diarrhea completely but we also are thinking about keeping him on it everyday or at least every other day. Opinions?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi ruxinsmom and WELCOME! :greet:

I've been giving our dog's Probiotics every day for their entire life!
Some choose to give it every other day.

I would suggest using a high quality, Human Grade product (Forti-Flora has questionable sourced ingredients) made for dog's. 

Digestive Enzyme (helps to assimilate food) & a ProBiotic (keeps the "good" bacteria in the gut). 

Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut (immune system helps fight allergens and MANY other things) it is *very* important to keep it healthy. 

Below are High Quality Human Ingredient Products:
*Sunday Sundae* http://www.feedsentials.com/ (use the email to order)
*Gut Sense* http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense 

Why does he have diarrhea?
What food are you feeding?
What meds is he on?

Moms


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## ruxinsmom (May 23, 2017)

I definitely will look into those! We just started out with a recommendation from his vet.

He's had diarrhea for about 2 weeks but is normal. Eating and drinking a lot like usual for a growing boy, and playful as always. He got diarrhea after we gave him a bone. So not sure why it remained as there's no tenderness in his abdominal area. No hard bump. I check everyday during his normal belly rub. Doesn't complain of pain but his diarrhea has cleared up since we started the probiotics.

He eats Taste of the Wild. We've used this brand for our last dog as well. He loves it.

He is also on no medication. Doesn't have a reason to be on any since his vet said he's okay. Just couldn't figure out why he's had diarrhea. 


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

TOTW has had it's problems AND it is manufactured by The Diamond Company, which had the HUGE recall of products a few years ago from dirty facilities and also other citations.

I'd change to a higher quality food called Fromm's. MANY people on here feed this.
*FROMM’S: **http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#heartland-gold-large-breed-puppy** Store Locator: *http://frommfamily.com/retailers/usa/#progress=2 This is Family Owned, Family Run, & Family Manufactured. Most pet food companies are not.
*Fromm Family Foods is a fifth-generation family-owned and operated artisan pet food company. 
*Produced with a commitment to quality and consistency at Fromm's hands-on facility in Wisconsin. High-nutrient digestibility and utilization offers complete and balanced nutrition. 
*Third-party pathogenic bacteria testing is practiced on all production batches to ensure safety.


When feeding raw bones, they should only be given for a very short time each day so that the dog or pups gut can get use to it. Then increase time allowance as their gut dictates.



Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Also, TOTW uses UN-Named ingredients!

Example:
Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream Puppy Formula With Smoked Salmon: Ingredients  Salmon, *ocean fish meal* -*WHAT kind of fish? This is UN-Named"Mystery Meat"!!!!! Possibly treated "at sea" with Ethoxiquin? ALL Ingredients should be named! *, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes* -*, canola oil, pea protein, tomato pomace, smoked salmon, salmon meal, *natural flavor* - What is that? Could it contain Diacetyl?, salmon oil (a source of DHA), salt, choline chloride, mixed tocopherols (a preservative), dried chicory root, yucca schidigera extract, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product,etc.

Just something to think about.
Moms


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## ruxinsmom (May 23, 2017)

I really appreciate all the advice  something we will definitely look into.

And I will probably wait until he's older before we reintroduce bones!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

If you do decide to change foods:
Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, taking a week or two to change. If stool get loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance". 



Also, don't change foods and Probiotics at the same time. Introduce one or the other and wait a week or so until pup is regulated. Then begin the 2nd one.
Otherwise, *IF* there were a reaction, you would not know which product it came from. 




Best of luck with your pup! and don't forget....we need pictures!uppy:

Moms


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

I have begun using The Honest Kitchen's "Perfect Form" and have seen excellent improvement. I am feeding the Honest Kitchen so I don't know if this is made to "work" with just this food. But it only took a day or 2 to see the difference.


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## ruxinsmom (May 23, 2017)

I've never heard of Honest Kitchen. Where do you get it at?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Momto2GSDs said:


> If you do decide to change foods:
> Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, taking a week or two to change. If stool get loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance".
> 
> 
> ...


If I could add this to the conversation , regarding change of food and probiotics at the same time.

the best way is as miss Momsto2 recommended with a gradual change over at the same time providing digestive enzymes and probiotics .

this sets up the microbiome to accommodate the new diet . 

as the old product starts to diminish you continue giving the digestive aide BEFORE and AFTER each feed to reduce any jolt to the system.

this is a protocol borne out by research -- used by Glutagest for humans and for travelers who want to minimize or avoid "traveller's diarrhea" -- you start before you even travel.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

ruxinsmom said:


> I've never heard of Honest Kitchen. Where do you get it at?



*The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food**(not kibble): Embark & LOVE is appropriate for puppies - Complete and Balanced meals! Just add water!: *https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen 

OR from a local "Doggie Boutique" (not big box pet stores).



A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you actually feed more than kibble because *it is real food *not extruded kibble*.*
The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated food is 100% Human Food and is the *only* pet food in the USA that the FDA legally allows to use the words “Human Food” on their advertising and packaging.


Fantastic, VERY healthy choice if you can't feed raw!


Moms


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

I went to a talk by a researcher at UC Davis who is studying the probiotic impact on the micro biome in the gut. She is a lab researcher so is doing studies on rats and reported that there was good impact of probiotics on a number of systems and (the focus of the talk) improvements on anxiety and depression. BUT she said the gut biome is set by the time humans are 2-3 years old and difficult to change without more intensive therapies (potentially fecal implants). In rats, the improvements were only sustained if they were given oral probiotics more or less daily. Stop the use and the benefits faded.

Just throwing that in the mix.

She also stressed how important it is to feed our biome with lots of fiber and roughage. That message was for humans but dogs?


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## astrovan2487 (May 29, 2014)

I had my pup on Taste of the Wild for awhile as a puppy and she too got diarrhea occasionally. Switched over to Earthborne Holistics Adult large breed at about 6 months old and never have problems, we now use Earthborn Holistics Primitive. At breakfast I add a tbs plain greek yogurt, a baby carrot, 1 tbs canned pumpkin, 1 tbs springtime inc supplement, a tsp of coconut oil and mixed with warm water to her kibble. Carrots and canned pumpkin add lots of fiber to their diet and can actually help with loose stool if used in moderation. Yogurt is ok for some dogs in small amounts but a lot of dogs are sensitive to dairy so isn't always the best source of probiotics. 
Would definitely try different brands of food if having an issue with loose stool, also never hurts for the dog to get daily probiotics and added fiber to their diet. 
I will not give my dogs bones or large rawhides, neither my pup or my older dog could handle them safely. Too much risk in breaking teeth, choking, or causing a blockage.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I make milk kefir for my dogs...they get it almost daily. Raw fed from weaning.

Here is an interesting article regarding how the gut health plays into more than just digestion:
Scientists link gut bacteria to anxiety disorders | Irish Examiner


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## DDRGSD56 (Aug 16, 2011)

Supplemental Goat Milk for Pets: Raw Goat Milk

https://www.freshtrackspet.com/products/answers-raw-cows-milk-kefir

Additional Formula

So Long Yeast, Hello Kefir! - Dogs Naturally Magazine

i have used all of these and like them and would guess they are superior to most of the other products


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"BUT she said the gut biome is set by the time humans are 2-3 years old "

I think there might be a bit of a misunderstanding here .

Yes - it does take approximately 2 to 3 years for the human child to develop and mature
a gut microbiome - from virtual zero to relevant . Key word is relevant . A living biomass
which EVOLVES according to the environment provides -- mutually beneficial to host and 
inhabitants . WE are hosts .

The same applies to young dogs. They "inherit" their dam's bacterial cultures at the moment
of vaginal birth . There is a constant edit and adapt .
Because the digestive system is immature what would be a negligible challenge to an older , better
developed system , could potentially be a major set back.

The microbiome of a young urbanite in USA and a member of an agricultural based society in middle europe
would be identifiable by their enormously different microbiome - including the latter group having bacterial cultures that are unique to that area.

Dogs can have vastly diverse flora . Dogs arriving in as rescues from the streets of Romania need to have digestive systems reset to cope with the dramatic change in food.

The microbiome is a responsive living entity which is affected by synthetics, stuff that passes for food, drugs, antibiotics , and can be altered one way or the other.
Like landscaping you might love the tree , want the tree , plant the tree , but if the climate and the soil and the required water situation is not correct - that tree will not take root and will not live.

What I have stated is from research University of California - San Diego School of Medicine.


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## DDRGSD56 (Aug 16, 2011)

great post Carmen

I think probiotics, especially when feeding commercial dry dog food & in the absence of feeding a raw diet/green tripe, are extremely important and overlooked by 99% of owners. My last 2 pups were started on kefir and/or raw goats milk when I got them at 8 weeks and they to date have not had "yeasty" ears, hot spots, excessive scratching, diarrhea, etc... Building up the gut flora early on and maintaining it has been helpful IMO. All of my previous GSDs (total of 3, all from similar working lines) had yeasty ears, etc. We havent moved so environment is the same.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

thanks !

ddrgsd56 said " Building up the gut flora early on and maintaining"

I do agree . Immune competence at a young age is an excellent precaution setting the stage for prevention of
problems down the line , even when there is a challenge.
Easier to recover than to install .

your idea is particularly important for young pups because that is the time when they have the greatest assaults to the digestive and immune system - whether it be from necessary medication , for giardia , coccidiosis , worming treatments , the vaccinations and all too common unnecessary , inappropriate antibiotic use .


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