# why wont my dog stop biting me?



## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

he has been doing this for months now. At first it was easy to control because I had just put him in timeout as a pup. But he is older and bigger and stronger now and timeout doesnt really work. I have tried everything under the sun. Redirecting him is impossible, because he is too focused on biting me. It hurts alot, it is really cringe worthy painful. I have tried keeping him away on leash, but it is hard to keep 6 month 70 pound gsd off of you while hes trying to bite you. I know nothing magically changes over night, but I've been dealing with him hurting me for a while. He bites me for no reason, I mind my business and I don't provoke him in any way shape or form, and he just bites me hard. When we are outside he will run at me and jump and bite my arm. Today he bit my mom on the face and then he jumped and bit her arm repeatedly, she was very mad and stormed out of the house. I took him downstairs and gave him a minute in his crate to calm down. But it is confusing, he will be sweet and then a minute later go back to his original behavior of biting me. Sometimes he will growl at me. I just want a companion dog that i can have fun with, this is not what I envisioned when I was getting a GSD. I want to be able to sit down with peace of mind; without feeling on edge because I don't know what my dog is going to do. I am probably going to take him to schutzund or something, idk what to do.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Did you apologize to your mother?

What have you done to deal with the problem? Have you consulted a trainer? Have you asked your vet? Have you called your breeder. Have you contacted the rescue or shelter if not a breeder?

How long have you had the puppy? How old was he when you brought him home? 

You realize that what you have been doing is not working, right? So, now you need to get a trainer, and work on the following:

1. Management -- you need to manage your puppy around guests and strangers so that no one gets hurt. 

2. Leadership -- you need to change your leadership style, you need to let this youngster know by the simple things that you do that you are in control. Look up NILIF -- nothing in life is free, this should give you some help in setting up better as a leader.

3. Training -- your dog needs to build a real bond with you. Training your dog will make him much more enjoyable to live with, while the positive feed back and consistency and achievement will help create a bond between you and the dog.

4. Exercise -- your puppy is a high energy herding breed and you need to get out there and throw the ball, and take him for long walks. He needs to exercise his mind and his body. You are seeing the results of a puppy that isn't channeling his energy into appropriate venues.

5. Let's forget about five for now. Your dog does need to be socialized properly to people of all sizes and types, around new stuff, etc, but we need for him to have confidence in your leadership for that to be a truly positive experience.


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## Kodakp (Feb 22, 2015)

This sounds so awful. I am sorry you are going thru this. I wish I could say more.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

selzer said:


> Did you apologize to your mother?
> 
> What have you done to deal with the problem? Have you consulted a trainer? Have you asked your vet? Have you called your breeder. Have you contacted the rescue or shelter if not a breeder?
> 
> ...


I didnt apologize, but she got mad at me too after it happened, I didn't really get much of a chance to say anything. I planned on taking him to a certain training facility, there are no working clubs in my area. this has been going on for so long. While back the Breeder told me to spray water in his face and say "no", that didnt work. Any verbal correction my dog just looks at me like yeah whatever and keeps hurting me. The vet told me a while ago to imitate a puppy yelping to scare him, or to yell at him, and I just told them it makes him bite harder, and they kinda just looked at me with a concerned open mouth look, D: ... I have had him since 8 weeks and he is 6 months 4 weeks now. I have walked him everyday (weather permitting) since i got him, the first time i ever missed a day of walking him was when he was 4 months or so and i got sick. The walking hasn't been as consistent since its been a rough winter, but I do try to run him in the backyard, i have a good sized fenced in yard, and he does like to play fetch. It seems though even after I walk him and run him around it doesn't change anything. I feel like whatever is going on with him is set ingrained into his personality. I have trained my dog to heel while walking, he knows tricks, sit, lay down, bark, roll over, shake, stay etc, i taught him to go in his cage. I have treat puzzles and i like to do sniffing games with him where he searches for treats in my living room, i will hide it under toys, under a blanket, behind furniture etc. I did heavy socialization around 3 months with a puppy class, it was in petsmart but I got lucky because the trainer was actually good, but for the biting at the time she told me to put him in timeout. He is standoffish to strangers, he does not let anyone touch him really except people he feels close to. Even with socialization i feel like he will never be that outgoing type of dog with humans. With dogs he tries to pull at them while I'm walking and he barks and his hackles go up sometimes.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

i did have only one red flag with the breeder i got my dog from and it is that some of the dogs had aggression issues from what I saw, a type of "in your face" mentality, one of the dogs I wanted to pet; but breeder warned me she would bite my fingers off. Some of them were going crazy in their kennels and when i walked by one tried to nip my sleeve through the kennel. Another dog I wanted to see and breeder said ok but after he opened the crate the dog just darted away from us. This breeder was reccomended to me by the vet, and was my second choice since my first choice of breeder ended up having a litter of females.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

How old is this pup?

Sounds like he's just bored and frustrated to me.

How many miles of off leash activity does he get each day?

How is dog training going? Agility? Herding? Flyball? Obedience? What do your instructors say? 

Have you looked at this for socialization ideas? ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ialize-i-want-photos-videos-puppies-dogs.html

How far along did you get with engagement activities and tugging with LONG tug toys?


http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html <--- click that.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> How old is this pup?
> 
> Sounds like he's just bored and frustrated to me.
> 
> ...


how many miles of off leash activity? i dont know. i dont live on a farm or anything for him to run around like that


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Not everyone lives on a farm, we still make the time and effort to get our dogs out and exercise their ears off! 

You seem to be doing everything right - I think this is a high strung dog with difficulty capping controlling his impulses. I really don't like how the dogs at the breeder's were acting from the way you describe it, so there is more likely a genetic component to your dogs behaviour - meaning you can be doing everything right, and your dog is still going to be impulsive and pushy, and have trouble controlling himself because that is how his brain is wired.

Hard to know exactly what is going on over the internet. You'd really need someone experienced with working dogs to observe and give feedback. But this is what I think after reading your posts:

Your dog is jumping and biting because he is trying to engage with you, and it is a fun game for him. He gets a reaction and attention. He is doing it because he can. It's fun for him! I say it's time for a prong collar and corrections. Keep a prong on him in the house, and have a short line attached to him. Get your timing down to an art - correct him when he is _thinking_ of jumping and biting! Quickly redirect to a behaviour you want and reward that. 

It will take a lot of repetitions for the message to sink through and a new pattern of behaviour to establish itself. You absolutely HAVE to stop this, or it will only get worse. 

Exercise. This dogs NEEDs exercise! I would gather that only an infinitesimal percentage of GSD owners live on a farm, yet most us still take the time and effort to give them the exercise they need. 
Yes, MILES of walking and running. Go for a hike! Swimming, skiing, snow-shoeing, flirt pole, chuck-it fetch, tracking, use your imagination! Exercise his ears off! When you get home from a walk/hike off-leash running on soft surface like trails and open fields, he should be so tired that he flops down and sleeps the sleep of the dead! He should be so tired that he can barely hold his ears up! 

There have been many posters on this forum who have reported HUGE behavioural improvements once they increased their dogs' exercise amount. Many people are afraid to do a lot with the puppies, they have heard and read so much about how too much exercise will cause hip and joint problems, but as long as it isn't forced running on hard pavement (like biking him on paved roads - but on dirt trails would be okay). 

Naps. Many pups act up from being overtired, just like toddlers. If he doesn't have a couple of hours a day already where he is crated in a quiet area where he can have a nap, he will need a crate and a nap schedule. 

There won't be any magic solution to this, you'll have to commit to seeing through the exercise requirements. But the bonus part of all this is that he also gets the nap time, which will be a nice break for you.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

Everything that Lucia said!
My 10 month old also enjoys biting, it is great fun for her. I really should video it so people can see what normal puppy playing looks like. The difference is that she was taught from a very young age that when I say enough, she stops. But otherwise she comes up, bites my leg, I say 'ouch she bites' and it is game on. 
It sounds like your dog is very bored and providing its own entertainment. If you want it to stop you need to provide appropriate outlets for the dogs energy, teach appropriate ways for the dog to entertain itself, and stop letting the dog amuse itself by biting you. In order to teach you must be in control, and when the dog is loose and bouncing around you biting you, you have no control. Like Lucia said, leave a leash on the dog and correct it before it bites.
All this said, I do strongly advise getting evaluated by an experienced trainer. In case this is an actual temperament problem instead of untrained, bored puppy problem. Once you know where the dog is coming from, you can start to work on getting it under control.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

that is my biggest fear, that as he gets older and bigger and stronger he will be able to hurt me more, or anyone else... definitely going to try to nip this in the bud.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Too late to start "nipping in the bud" (should have been done after the first bite); he is way out of control and needs training, exercise and socialization skills.
Hire a private trainer to address the issues at home and to evaluate your relationship with him. Then keep him in classes for the next few years. And consider previous advice from members. If he has a sound mind and you are consistent, it shouldn't be hard to fix with the right help.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Too late to start "nipping in the bud" (should have been done after the first bite); he is way out of control and needs training, exercise and socialization skills.
> Hire a private trainer to address the issues at home and to evaluate your relationship with him. Then keep him in classes for the next few years. And consider previous advice from members. If he has a sound mind and you are consistent, it shouldn't be hard to fix with the right help.


clearly everything I've tried so far hasn't worked, don't assume I wasnt proactive about this.. I didnt stand there and let him do what he wanted....how could you even assume that I'm just trying to fix this now?..did you even read my posts?


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## J-Boo (Mar 5, 2015)

I hope I am not in the same boat when my pup is 6 months! I was hoping she would learn by then not to bite...

I hear you about the weather, though. Many times I think what Maya needs is to get outside and play more, and be free to run around like crazy. But we just got through our coldest month on record. Like, EVER, since temperature record keeping began! So we have not been able to get her outside nearly as much as we would like.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You've tried the things that will help some puppies get over puppy biting. I am not sure how skillful you were in this. The vet was right to tell you to yelp like a puppy, well right for some dogs. That will work, because you are letting the dog know he is biting too hard, and for some pups they just need to learn that. 

For other puppies it just ramps it up because the reaction you give is fun and exciting to the puppy. 

Redirecting works great too, for puppies that are mouthy and chewy and want to chew. For puppies that are biting to engage with you -- no toy is going to be as exciting on its own than you are, even if it squeals. So you have to redirect and stimulate the puppy into playing with the toy rather than biting you. Tricky. Because you do not want to reward biting.

And, timeouts. Well, I am not a fan of timeouts, except that sometimes we need a time out or we will do something that will destroy the trust in the pup. For mine, because I have a bunch, it works a lot better because I have Time-Ins rather than time-outs. They all do not get a lot of time with me, so the time they spend with me is kind of special. Usually where pups are kept is in the house with their dam or other pups, but they do not get the run of the house. There is a baby gate opening to the living room behind which the pup and his dam are pretty much in the center of it all, but do not have free access to the other dogs and people. 

When I do have the puppy out, if there is biting, all play and interaction stops, he goes back to his area, and they learn real quickly to knock off the toothier forms of play and engagement. 

Many times a day, I will walk over to the baby gate to talk to the puppy, pet him, play with his ears, etc. If he gets mouthy, I walk away. Mouthiness goes away on its own because it ends what they see as a good time. 

I am not sure how that helps you though. You might be able to take something away from it. 

I was curious as to how old your puppy was when you brought him home from the breeders. Your red flag is large. But, if there are many dogs there, then they probably all would be barking and carrying on. The idea that one would bite your fingers off is, well, I suppose someone somewhere might be training dogs to be highly aggressive to guests and non-threatening people, but it wouldn't be good on a resume for a pet home. Hope that one wasn't the sire or dam, or closely related. The one that darted away, could be from complete lack of socialization -- these are not good examples of what you should be seeing. GSDs should be aloof at best or worst. I am ok if I tell the dog to say hello, that the dog go up and sniff. If it doesn't stick around to be petted, that is ok, so long as it isn't running away or hiding. Usually, they are ok with some polite petting, but they prefer to be petted by their owners, and that is fine. A dog that comes up, tail wagging, rubbing its body on you for pets is fine, not really what you might expect from a GSD, but some GSDs really do have a good gauge for humans, and are perfectly fine interacting with people who are not acting fearful, aggressive or weird. I would rather see this, than one that darts away, growls menacingly or otherwise gives the impression it will bite. 

For all that, the puppy is yours now. Where he came from is over and done with. If you got him early, there are some things that might be a bit tougher to deal with. But the dog is intelligent and trainable. It has a problem behavior and a good trainer or behaviorist should be able to help you get a handle on that. Changing your leadership style can also help -- check into NILIF. It helps a lot of people.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

selzer said:


> You've tried the things that will help some puppies get over puppy biting. I am not sure how skillful you were in this. The vet was right to tell you to yelp like a puppy, well right for some dogs. That will work, because you are letting the dog know he is biting too hard, and for some pups they just need to learn that.
> 
> For other puppies it just ramps it up because the reaction you give is fun and exciting to the puppy.
> 
> ...


i got him at 8 weeks. but it was never this severe. it was manageable. i do agree whats done is done..just have to work on what to do moving forward. he is very tall and jumps over the baby gates with ease, he doesnt seem to understand it is a boundary, even though that was something i always enforced when he was smaller. honestly he kind of makes me nervous, i feel like im walking on egg shells around him.. he has size to him and it can be scary having a big dog growl at you, he resource guards as well..he knows the "leave it" command but chooses not to listen anyways when I want something from he has


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you are afraid of a six month old puppy, you should probably contact the breeder and see if they will take the dog back. 

He is large, and probably going to be larger. If that wasn't what you wanted...

Either get on board with a good trainer, or give him back to the breeder, or find someone experienced with GSDs and willing to take him, before he gets bigger and more difficult to handle, and before he does something everyone will regret.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

selzer said:


> If you are afraid of a six month old puppy, you should probably contact the breeder and see if they will take the dog back.
> 
> He is large, and probably going to be larger. If that wasn't what you wanted...
> 
> Either get on board with a good trainer, or give him back to the breeder, or find someone experienced with GSDs and willing to take him, before he gets bigger and more difficult to handle, and before he does something everyone will regret.


i already tried that a long time ago and he said he doesnt take them unless they have a health issue. his size isnt the issue..its what hes doing with it that bothers me....he also turned 7 months today..i feel that this dog needs to learn to use what he has in a constructive way...clearly everything ive tried so far has been a fail...i been researching and i found two training facilities that might be able to help...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

All that Lucia/Castlemaid wrote - this is going to be work for you (except the naps - that's your reward). It's going to take time, and effort, and you are going to have to be engaged in your dog - beyond what most people think is needed for a dog to be a pet. 

Are you going to do that, is the question. 

It's not a passive process, it's an active one. You can almost 100% do this. The almost part depends on how motivated you are, and how able you are to put into place the things your dog needs. 

You can read a lot on http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/free-downloads-posters-handouts-and-more blog and website. There is a program there with her book/dvd on raising a puppy. Your dog is still a puppy. Get that book. 

In the mean time, find a smart trainer - one that works with less intelligent breeds of dogs is as good as one who works with this breed.  http://www.ccpdt.org/index.php?option=com_certificants&Itemid=102


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

thank you guys for your help, i appreciate you being helpful and not critical of me or the situation.. pretty much at my wits end...I'm willing to put in the extra effort if it will give me results...


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

its very upsetting because I've dedicated the better part of my life to him since I got him..like he just ran at me while i was sitting down and he bit my face..my lip is swollen.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I would start a new thread with "need to find a trainer near x city" and see if people have ideas. It may be a drive, but from personal experience it will be beyond worth it in the long run.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

it sucks cause nobody in my family cares about this dog except me. my mom came back home today and i asked if she wanted to see my dog and she said "no, I have no reason to" yeah its pretty clear shes done with him. I don't really have a support system for this dog so its harder.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

nb1422 said:


> its very upsetting because I've dedicated the better part of my life to him since I got him..like he just ran at me while i was sitting down and he bit my face..my lip is swollen.


This is very serious. I would keep him on a leash or crated so he cannot bite you while you have control over him. Teach him tug and release to encourage more inhibition on biting you.
I agree with the comment that you surely can do this but it requires determination and consistency. If you think that you can't do this I would rehome him since he is only starting his life and will get worse if not curbed.
Too bad your breeder doesn't support you; poor example for a breeder.Have you tried the flirt pole?: teaching impulse control and getting exercise. There are threads on this forum about this.
Maybe trainers can help you in phone consultations as well if travel is an issue.
Good luck.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> This is very serious. I would keep him on a leash or crated so he cannot bite you while you have control over him. Teach him tug and release to encourage more inhibition on biting you.
> I agree with the comment that you surely can do this but it requires determination and consistency. If you think that you can't do this I would rehome him since he is only starting his life and will get worse if not curbed.
> Too bad your breeder doesn't support you; poor example for a breeder.Have you tried the flirt pole?: teaching impulse control and getting exercise. There are threads on this forum about this.
> Maybe trainers can help you in phone consultations as well if travel is an issue.
> Good luck.


the breeder is a scumbag IMO...a dog trainer from my state told me after I got my pup that he has bred pups with a dysplastic bitch..thank god my pup had two solid parents, i have xray of sires hips and they are great, the sire wasn't even really his dog though, he co owned it.. i tried contacting him days ago through phone and he still hasnt replied, I have asked to come see him so he can see how my pup is doing and he hasnt replied... I had actually talked to that trainer months ago and from what I told her; she said my purchase of this pup it seems was already kicking me in the nuts, metaphorically..since I mentioned that he has bitten me in places ill never want to get bit...ill leave it at that..lol..


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You really want to find some good help with this. Very bluntly, never mind the behaviorist, I belong to this association, blah, blah. Find a trainer with hands on experience with strong, determined, biting dogs. Keep him away from your mom and anyone else that isn't comfortable with him, especially kids. You can't force any kind of relationship, all you can do is control him. Its on you. 

Never mind reading about what to do, there's no acceptance of he's only mouthing me. I'm probably offending very nice, competent people. But I bet everything is only going to get worse if you let him get away with stuff. Get him straightened out now with some good help.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

I would spank him . Set him straight . Make him pay everytime he bite you. I dont think your punishment is harsh enough . Crate him for 5 hours if you have to and only take him out for potty time . Teaching your puppy manner the old fashion way is not a bad thing at all.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Castlemaid said:


> Your dog is jumping and biting because he is trying to engage with you, and it is a fun game for him. He gets a reaction and attention. He is doing it because he can. It's fun for him! I say it's time for a prong collar and corrections. Keep a prong on him in the house, and have a short line attached to him. Get your timing down to an art - correct him when he is _thinking_ of jumping and biting! Quickly redirect to a behaviour you want and reward that.
> 
> It will take a lot of repetitions for the message to sink through and a new pattern of behaviour to establish itself. You absolutely HAVE to stop this, or it will only get worse.


EVERYTHING Lucia said is true, especially the amount of exercise ( both physical and mental), AND the above. The correction should be fast and hard, and practice your timing. If you wait 30 seconds after he bites or jumps on you, it's no good. It has to be as he's thinking of it (you'll learn to see it in his eyes and see his muscles tense) or while he's doing it, or instantly after--anything else and the correction won't be effective. You are going to have to be persistent and consistent with this--he is still in the "landshark" stage of his puppyhood. It's a trying time, but it is the time you must establish his respect for you. A loud "OUT!!" or "NO!!" or "LEAVE IT!!" right in his face exactly when you correct him emphasizes it. (I always liked "OUT" because it's easy to make it sound like a loud bark. While he's this bad, the "OUT" should make your throat hurt when you use it.) You will reach a point where just the vocal correction is needed. You may still get bit--but you must outlast him. If you give up in this, you will not have the dog you envisioned.

This may make him seem like he is a terrible dog, but take heart. A year down the road you hopefully will see a totally different dog than you are experiencing now.

Another must--find a GOOD trainer experienced with German shepherds to help you, and I don't believe you will find him/her at Petsmart. Time out will not work for this dog.

Susan


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Ace GSD said:


> I would spank him . Set him straight . Make him pay everytime he bite you. I dont think your punishment is harsh enough . Crate him for 5 hours if you have to and only take him out for potty time . Teaching your puppy manner the old fashion way is not a bad thing at all.


Please do NOT spank a dog or lock him up for 5 hours. They don't even relate to a minute ago. This advice would not result in good communication with a dog. It most likely will make it worse. Aggression, met with aggression, does not work in the end, maybe at the moment but not over time.
All the other advice form previous posters sounds good. Let him deal with the consequences immediately as explained in the NILIF treatment.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

problem i have with tug is it doesnt work too well, no matter how long object is he will find a way to make it to my flesh, i use a long rag or towel, he doesnt really care for it as much as he cares about hurting me, i will try to wave it in his face and he just jumps at me, i tried again today he just jumped at me and bit my stomach, it hurt, and instead of trying to bite the rag he just bit my hand and it was soo friggin painful...


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## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

Ace GSD said:


> I would spank him . Set him straight . Make him pay everytime he bite you. I dont think your punishment is harsh enough . Crate him for 5 hours if you have to and only take him out for potty time . Teaching your puppy manner the old fashion way is not a bad thing at all.


 Spank him? You have got to be kidding me 

I am certainly no expert here but I would consider an appropriate leash correction for sure. Best advice would be to get some more experienced help. Don't give-up !


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> EVERYTHING Lucia said is true, especially the amount of exercise ( both physical and mental), AND the above. The correction should be fast and hard, and practice your timing. If you wait 30 seconds after he bites or jumps on you, it's no good. It has to be as he's thinking of it (you'll learn to see it in his eyes and see his muscles tense) or while he's doing it, or instantly after--anything else and the correction won't be effective. You are going to have to be persistent and consistent with this--he is still in the "landshark" stage of his puppyhood. It's a trying time, but it is the time you must establish his respect for you. A loud "OUT!!" or "NO!!" or "LEAVE IT!!" right in his face exactly when you correct him emphasizes it. (I always liked "OUT" because it's easy to make it sound like a loud bark. While he's this bad, the "OUT" should make your throat hurt when you use it.) You will reach a point where just the vocal correction is needed. You may still get bit--but you must outlast him. If you give up in this, you will not have the dog you envisioned.
> 
> This may make him seem like he is a terrible dog, but take heart. A year down the road you hopefully will see a totally different dog than you are experiencing now. I have literally screamed at the top of my lungs at him, he just doesn't care...
> 
> ...


I'm starting to wonder if some of you are reading everything I've posted. no type of verbal correction works for him, it amps him up even more, he bites me harder and growls at me if i yell.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Also agree on the exercise . Ace always has enough exercise that he doesn't need to go psycho anymore at home .


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> I'm starting to wonder if some of you are reading everything I've posted. no type of verbal correction works for him, it amps him up even more, he bites me harder and growls at me if i yell.


Read all of what I said. It has to be combined with a strong physical correction with a collar, preferably a prong, with a leash or line that he drags ALL the time so you have something to grab for the correction. Do you understand what a correction is?

Susan


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I have literally screamed at the top of my lungs at him on multiple occasions because of how mad he has gotten me, its like nothing phases him.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Read all of what I said. It has to be combined with a strong physical correction with a collar, preferably a prong, with a leash or line that he drags ALL the time so you have something to grab for the correction. Do you understand what a correction is?
> 
> Susan


Do i understand what a correction is? I dont have time for passive aggressive crap on my thread


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

mattpayne said:


> Spank him? You have got to be kidding me
> 
> I am certainly no expert here but I would consider an appropriate leash correction for sure. Best advice would be to get some more experienced help. Don't give-up !


Im not kidding . Jump and bite iwner face is unacceptable no matter how you look at it. Now i never said kick the dog in the face or beat him up with the baseball bat so calm down . Parents spank their kid but they cant spank the puppy ? Lol ridiculous


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

at the risk of sounding edgy or getting frustrated I'm probably just gonna try to find a good trainer to help me...i dont mean to get upset at anyone. I appreciate everyones willingness to help me, and I know it is probably not fully understandable since you are not here, but this is an issue, and its been going on for a while, and im getting tired of it.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> I have literally screamed at the top of my lungs at him on multiple occasions because of how mad he has gotten me, its like nothing phases him.


Reacting while you are mad is not training or correcting behavior.


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## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> Do i understand what a correction is? I dont have time for passive aggressive crap on my thread


What Susan said,
Get him on a prong collar with a long line. The second he comes at you verbally correct and "pop" him with a physical leash/line correction immediately after you have said this . You probably won't need to do this as hard as you think. Please make sure the prong collar is fitted correctly.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> at the risk of sounding edgy or getting frustrated I'm probably just gonna try to find a good trainer to help me...i dont mean to get upset at anyone. I appreciate everyones willingness to help me, and I know it is probably not fully understandable since you are not here, but this is an issue, and its been going on for a while, and im getting tired of it.


Yes, yes, yes. One experienced with GSDs.


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## RockyK9 (Dec 9, 2014)

Ace GSD said:


> Im not kidding . Jump and bite iwner face is unacceptable no matter how you look at it. Now i never said kick the dog in the face or beat him up with the baseball bat so calm down . Parents spank their kid but they cant spank the puppy ? Lol ridiculous


Right a dog is not a human so stop the stupid comparison of what works on a kid. Maybe try a prong correction before physically hitting the dog. And calm down yourself.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

IMO this dog does not need a firm hand, it would just feed into his rough behavior. I dont want to do anything to provoke him.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> IMO this dog does not need a firm hand, it would just feed into his rough behavior. I dont want to do anything to provoke him.


Tell us how it turns out, ok?


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Tell us how it turns out, ok?


I will, thank you susan.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Where are you located? I might have missed this in previous threads.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

mattpayne said:


> Right a dog is not a human so stop the stupid comparison of what works on a kid. Maybe try a prong correction before physically hitting the dog. And calm down yourself.


I never said what works on human works on dogs  please learn to read .


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> I will, thank you susan.


That was actually sarcasm... Provoke him with a stacked deck and win. But, you seem to know better, even though what you are doing hasn't worked so far. So, tell us how it turns out. If you are right, more power to you.

Susan


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Hitting or yelling at an aggressive dog will only amp it up. You need strong corrections, not punishment. The dog does not put together what happened five minutes ago with being yelled at and locked in his crate. Strong corrections do not include physical violence. A prong collar used correctly will help more than yelling will. If you lose your temper, it will only travel down the leash. First, be calm. Maybe a trainer that is familiar with this type issue would be a good place to start. I don't know where you are located but if you can't find a good trainer, then other trainers who write books would be helpful (reading their books I mean). Patricia Connell has written "How to be the Leader of the Pack..and Have your Dog Love You for it!' as well as cowritten "Feisty Fido, Help for the Leash Reactive Dog". Emma Parson also wrote Click to Calm, Healing the Aggressive Dog". Even if these books don't exactly hit on your particular problem they are good training. Good luck.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

are you people under the impression im hitting my dog?........seriously?..


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> That was actually sarcasm... Provoke him with a stacked deck and win. But, you seem to know better, even though what you are doing hasn't worked so far. So, tell us how it turns out. If you are right, more power to you.
> 
> Susan



when I said I will i meant I will call a trainer..jeesh lol


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I understand, and I'm sure you're frustrated. It makes perfect sense that you're looking at him and wondering what the heck is with you. I don't think you should put a prong on and start cranking on him on your own at this point. What you've been doing, the yelling etc.. that escalates things with him, adding some pain to that may not work out for you. I think you should just manage things for right now with safety in mind and find someone to show you how to bring him in line.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> are you people under the impression im hitting my dog?........seriously?..


Teri was actually responding to someone else who suggested 'spanking' the dog. It's not something the vast majority of people on this forum would recommend.

Susan


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

nb1422 said:


> I have literally screamed at the top of my lungs at him on multiple occasions because of how mad he has gotten me, its like nothing phases him.


I can understand why that wouldn't work. If your puppy (and 7 months old is still a puppy, although big strong one) is that amped up, matching his energy by being amped up yourself is just feeding into it. A better way to approach the situation is to be cool, calm, and collected. He doesn't understand WHY you're yelling at him anyway. How could he? I know it's hard, but you have to keep your head and diffuse the situation, not escalate it further. Imagine if someone was screaming at you in a foreign language. Would you understand what you were doing to upset them? Most likely not. If your puppy has never been trained to know what you expect from him by showing him what behavior you expect and rewarding him for it, in addition to correcting what you don't want, your screaming fits are a mystery. 



nb1422 said:


> IMO this dog does not need a firm hand, it would just feed into his rough behavior.


Well, it depends on what you mean by a "firm hand". You can raise a puppy with structure, rules, and boundaries without ever laying an hand on them. I saw someone mention NILIF - are you familiar with it? It stands for Nothing in Life is Free: 

Nothing in Life is Free

Dog Training: Nothing in Life is Free : The Humane Society of the United States

Nothing in Life Is Free (NILIF) Dog Training

It's about controlling the resources - things your puppy values, by making him work for them by doing something for you first. It's about being a firm, fair, consistent leader. It's a great technique that I've used with my last 4 puppies. 

The bottom line is that you really do need the assistance of a good trainer. Did you ever mention what area you live in, so maybe people can help you find someone?


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

nb1422 said:


> i did have only one red flag with the breeder i got my dog from and it is that some of the dogs had aggression issues from what I saw, a type of "in your face" mentality, one of the dogs I wanted to pet; but breeder warned me she would bite my fingers off. Some of them were going crazy in their kennels and when i walked by one tried to nip my sleeve through the kennel. Another dog I wanted to see and breeder said ok but after he opened the crate the dog just darted away from us. This breeder was reccomended to me by the vet, and was my second choice since my first choice of breeder ended up having a litter of females.


thats a pretty big red flag. anyway, you are in over your head, follow the advice given and get together with a trainer, hopefully one very familiar with gsd. good luck.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I have limited experience with this kind of dog so I will refrain from giving advice however I will ask some questions.

Have you tried being calm during this?

How is your timing on corrections?

Are you assertive?

Are you fearless? Could it be he is picking up on your fear?

Can you be confident through researching and getting with a good trainer?

Remember, he is YOUR dog, not the other way around. Sometimes attitude and confidence is half the battle, training is the other half.

Please update us, and I wonder what area you are in? Perhaps people around here could recommend a great trainer?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree that hitting the dog will make him worse, not better. 

Stop yelling. That isn't working. If you are frustrated or angry, put him in a secure area, puppy safe room or crate, until you have calmed down. 

What you need to do is outwit this puppy. How? You need to find all the ways your reaction to his behavior is rewarding to him, and you need to stop reacting in ways that reward him inadvertently. A good trainer can help you figure this stuff out. It is hard for us who have never seen you interact with the dog to come up with alternatives for you. And it has gone beyond the point of trying to fix this yourself. You need help that is hands on, if you want to save your puppy. 

Your breeder is a scumbag. Sorry, but lack of response and unwillingness to give an pointers or take the puppy back is really telling. I am sorry you are having this issue. But it is what it is. That avenue is closed. So now you need to focus on what else is out there. 

What you need is a trainer who is not afraid of the dog, and one who is familiar with the working dog's intelligence, energy, an drives, and can help you create a plan for this dog. Maybe you need someone who can take the dog, but that could take time to find the right kind of person for him, so for now you need to be working with a trainer with him, in hopes that he will turn out to be a great dog once this behavior is dealt with.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Agreed selzer.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Teri was actually responding to someone else who suggested 'spanking' the dog. It's not something the vast majority of people on this forum would recommend.
> 
> Susan


Thank you Susan. I was responding to the other person who thought spanking was okay.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I've been calm, but a person can only take so much. I don't yell either, I was just letting you guys know it just feeds into his behavior, sometimes you get mad but IMO its a natural response.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

selzer said:


> I agree that hitting the dog will make him worse, not better.
> 
> Stop yelling. That isn't working. If you are frustrated or angry, put him in a secure area, puppy safe room or crate, until you have calmed down.
> 
> ...


I stay out of the way of this dog, and he comes for me, he drags me into it. Me giving him a reaction is me trying to get away when he attacks me, because idk what else to do. he has literally backed me into a corner before, its pathetic. if you even do try to get him off of you he will just back up before you can touch him and he will lunge right back.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Have you been able to find a trainer to help you? If you post your location, maybe somebody here can suggest one. I know we all been focused on helping the dog, but we are concerned about you and your family, too, and the biting needs to stop.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

nb1422 said:


> I stay out of the way of this dog, and he comes for me, he drags me into it. Me giving him a reaction is me trying to get away when he attacks me, because idk what else to do. he has literally backed me into a corner before, its pathetic. if you even do try to get him off of you he will just back up before you can touch him and he will lunge right back.


I cannot believe this behavior from a young dog like yours. It might have started from an adolescence bratty behavior, got your responses and now he defends himself when you "try to get him off of you" (method?). He is either handled the wrong way from the start or something in his brain is going haywire. 
By now it starts to feel as if you are defending your "methods" in dealing with your dog. Have you already tried any of the suggested tips we all gave you? 
Why don't you tell us your location so we can refer you to a good trainer? We have asked several times. Many of us have invested time to think about how we can help you in writing these posts.
These quoted posts from you "_I've been calm, but a person can only take so much. I don't yell either, I was just letting you guys know it just feeds into his behavior, sometimes you get mad but IMO its a natural response_" and this one _"I stay out of the way of this dog_", to me shows that you better give up this dog before he injures someone or gets some "natural" response from you that you cannot undo. Retaliation and avoidance doesn't train an adolescent dog, any dog.
Just trying to help you.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> *By now it starts to feel as if you are defending your "methods" in dealing with your dog. Have you already tried any of the suggested tips we all gave you?*


^^^^This.

Susan


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> Why don't you tell us your location so we can refer you to a good trainer? We have asked several times. Many of us have invested time to think about how we can help you in writing these posts..


I second this! 

Also,

Someone suggested rehoming him,forgot who it was. I am not sure if this is a great idea for you or not, but I do know if you DO end up wanting to re home him, do NOT re home him to just anyone. IF he gets rehomed, it should be to a gsd rescue willing to work with his issues, or a home that has an experienced gsd handler, and no children. Getting rid of him does not solve the problem. It just solves your problem, but then becomes someone else's, so try to be conscious if you decide to go this route and be sure to interview, and place him with someone who has a background and experience to deal with this. If you decide to keep him, you are going to need help, so get it. This dog has a lot lf potential but right now his energy and actions are not being directed correctly. I'm not trying to place blame it's just that sometimes we honestly don't know what to do and need help. And there is no shame in asking. As a matter of fact I am impressed that you are here asking for help, and have been trying different methods with him, and have not given up yet. You are better than most in this regard. A lot of people would just dump the dog somewhere. 

One other thing I wanted to bring up, has this dog been assessed by a veterinarian and a behaviorist? Maybe there is something else going on perhaps health related. He is young and at that rebellious stage so it could just be behavioral, but we don't know for sure and it never hurts to cover your bases, and just check with a vet?


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I was actually on another forum for this problem a long time ago, most of them just told me to ignore him and wait for him to stop on his own...but he never stopped, and IMO just standing there and letting him do what he wants teaches him nothing...I digress. The vet a while back told me when he jumps and bites to knee him in the chest and dont be afraid to use a little force when I do it...but ofcourse that just agitates him further..everything I do just agitates him, ofcourse when i make the connection it agitates him I no longer continue it... But i just try to block him with my arm hes chewing on long enough for me to get away, because I really don't know what else to do at that given time, yesterday we were playing fetch and instead of fetching..what does he do? he runs inside... then starts running at me while im standing outside..he picks up speed and jumps and snapped at my arm. It hurt real bad... That same night he bit my arm and it started bleeding.. I don't bully or manhandle my dog, I was never big on physical correction, I always tried to keep things positive..I live in the New England region. RI.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

You have been given a lot of good advice here, please use some of it. I have questions..

You got the dog at 8 weeks, when did the biting start? From what I understand, he is not crated..is he still behind baby gates, or have you given up on those.. If you gave up, he won, so try a crate..

Please tell us the daily routine of your dog from 
when he wakes up to when he goes to bed at night..

Is he potty trained..

Thanks.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> You have been given a lot of good advice here, please use some of it. I have questions..
> 
> You got the dog at 8 weeks, when did the biting start? From what I understand, he is not crated..is he still behind baby gates, or have you given up on those.. If you gave up, he won, so try a crate..
> 
> ...


I use baby gates, have enforced them as a boundary since day 1.. no matter how high up i leave them he jumps over and his legs dont even hit the gate, and I cant leave it too high... I still have to walk over them, also if i leave it too high he will be able to squeeze under it. He is potty trained and crate trained. never has accidents. This is basic stuff I have always done. I wake up take him out to use bathroom, feed him do some tricks and training wait about an hour or so for his food to digest. check to see if he has to use the bathroom again, then i take him on a long walk, I walk fast never leisure pace, he trots when we walk. When we get back he always has his second wind and just runs around the backyard...he doesn't really sleep though, only time he sleeps is in his crate. I chill for a little while, he is in his crate. He gets lunch and then I take him outside to use bathroom, after his food is digested i try playing with him outside.., hang out some and see if he can behave out of his crate. He gets dinner and i take him out again.. once more before bed. Most of the NILIF i have already been doing even before i came here..I always make him do tricks before eating meals...he sits before I open doors, he only gets petted when he isnt acting like a nut..


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I have no responsibilities other than him currently..I'd spend all day with him if he didn't act like a bully nutcase


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> I use baby gates, have enforced them as a boundary since day 1.. no matter how high up i leave them he jumps over and his legs dont even hit the gate, and I cant leave it too high... I still have to walk over them, also if i leave it too high he will be able to squeeze under it. He is potty trained and crate trained. never has accidents. This is basic stuff I have always done. I wake up feed him do some tricks and training wait about an hour or so for his food to digest. check to see if he has to use the bathroom again, then i take him on a long walk, I walk fast never leisure pace, he trots when we walk. When we get back he always has his second wind and just runs around the backyard...he doesn't really sleep though, only time he sleeps is in his crate. Most of the NILIF i have already been doing even before i came here..I always make him do tricks before eating meals...he sits before I open doors, he only gets petted when he isnt acting like a nut..


Like Deb told you, you have received some good information on this thread. You have tried the positive stuff, but there are dog personalities in the more aggressive breeds where a more assertive personality is absolutely necessary for their owner/handler, or they will run all over you as he is doing. He has to learn that there are consequences to bad behavior--solid, unpleasant consequences. And if you find a trainer (perhaps someone can direct you to a good GSD trainer, I did notice you gave us RI as your area), and he/she espouses complete positive methods, run. This dog is not going to respond to them, especially since he already knows he can do exactly as he pleases. He has to suffer consequences for behavior as serious as what you describe.

First, you need a prong collar, have someone teach you how to use it. There are good threads on this forum on just that. It is much more humane than even a choke collar if you know how to use it.

Second, put a drag line on him in the house. Shouldn't be any shorter than 4 ft., so you can get your hands on it (or step on it) without having to touch him. And learn how to do a good, hard leash correction--hard, fast, and short. If he tries again, do it again. At the very least, you can step on his line short enough where he can't jump. He is at the point where the first time you REALLY correct him, you are going to have to be determined enough to finish what you start. GSDs are smart, however. Once he learns there are REAL consequences to such bad behavior and you are not going to give up as you have been, he is going to start to rethink it all. And with him dragging a line, you can correct him before he gets you. Outside, put a long line on him, 30 ft. at least. Same thing goes. Watch his behavior closely, by now I would hope you can tell when he is even thinking about jumping or biting. Get him before he carries it out.

If you are determined to keep this dog, you will have to do both--find a GOOD trainer who can show you how to handle him, and learn to handle him yourself. You are not being mean to him, and he will not stop loving you. What he WILL do is gain respect for you--right now he has NONE.

Susan


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What Susan said! I'm all for all positive, and use probably 98% positive with my boy. He is an easy dog, self-controlled, respectful, wanting to please. All positive works wonderfully for dogs like that, but then you have different types of personalities, like your dog. 

Dogs like that need CLEAR boundries, and direct consequences to the 'wrong' choice in their behaviour. I sorta get the feeling that you cater to him a lot trying to prove to him that you are his friend and worthy of his respect. You are not going to break him by using more direct discipline. From experience for dealing with an independent, impulsive rescue, the more controls I brought in, the clearer I was in my expectations, the more she respected me, and the more she looked to me for direction in new situations.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

Let me add one more thing, and it's important. I have found that the dogs who are the most difficult adolescents, often end up as absolutely great dogs if they are handled correctly. You look back and wonder where the bad dog went and who slipped the good dog into your house when you weren't looking, lol.

Susan


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I could be more assertive, I agree too, i think for all that he has done to me if I did any of it to him he'd probably think I were a maniac or something...I don't want him to have a reason to dislike me is all, or feed into his behavior. I question his appreciation for me but I suppose that is my own insecurity. I don't have to win his loyalty. i feel like my life revolves around him when it should be the other way around. i do cater to him, and I feel like he realizes it..I also feel he realizes he makes me nervous..like i will be picking up his poop and he will bite me, he's probably thinking..."thats right, pick up my poop and let me bite you! you're beneath me!" He definitely doesn't respect me. I feel like im being blocked from being more assertive cause he kinda scares me, I feel like whatever I do agitates him


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

my heart was in it but its not really as much anymore, I am just feeling demotivated now and living with him just feels like a chore. I love him but I don't know if he was the right fit for me. It would break my heart to let him go, but I don't know if I honestly care enough to keep this up for much longer. I just think if I were to leave him, I can't predict his outcome, I can't be positive he'd be going somewhere better, someone that would understand him and what he needs, but I feel I am in over my head with him. there are other factors to this, but I don't want to go into too much detail and make it look like im throwing a pity party or I'm out for attention.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

If a dog has "won" the dominant position, that is more serious than needing to employ standard training methods. At this point, bringing a 3rd party in (trainer) that has experience with this may be the only alternative you have. 

Even if you did not have this dangerous problem to deal with, it sounds like you also have a high drive dog and really didn't want one. That will present continual problems and frustrations for you and the dog if his needs aren't met in this area. I watched the video "so you think you want a high drive dog" and knew that was not for me. 

The ball is in your court. I hope you can get professional help or rehome him soon before he becomes permanently dangerous and has to be destroyed.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I just wanted a family pet, someone to have fun with and go on adventures, not this.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> I could be more assertive, I agree too, i think for all that he has done to me if I did any of it to him he'd probably think I were a maniac or something...I don't want him to have a reason to dislike me is all, or feed into his behavior. I question his appreciation for me but I suppose that is my own insecurity. I don't have to win his loyalty. i feel like my life revolves around him when it should be the other way around.* i do cater to him*, and I feel like he realizes it..I also feel he realizes he makes me nervous..like i will be picking up his poop and he will bite me, he's probably thinking..."thats right, pick up my poop and let me bite you! you're beneath me!" He definitely doesn't respect me. *I feel like im being blocked from being more assertive cause he kinda scares me, I feel like whatever I do agitates him*


Admitting this is a good beginning, and it is what I suspected. Are you a small person, physically? And how strong are you, physically? Even if you are a tiny woman, it doesn't matter, it is all about attitude and strength of personality.

When you say that things "agitate" him--he is rebelling, and it works, you stop whatever you are doing. You will have to work past this, and you can. But you have to take the suggestions we have given you that will tip the scales your way--a drag line, a prong collar for example. And take to heart what Lucia told you (Castlemaid). You are not going to hurt him, you are not going to make him hate you. Children are the same way, in the sense that they look for boundaries. Yes, they can push, but they are seeking those boundaries. Before you can get the 'love' you want from your dog, you must get his respect first, and you do it by setting up boundaries and enforcing them. It's not too late.

Susan


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

nb1422 said:


> my heart was in it but its not really as much anymore, I am just feeling demotivated now and living with him just feels like a chore. I love him but I don't know if he was the right fit for me. It would break my heart to let him go, but I don't know if I honestly care enough to keep this up for much longer. I just think if I were to leave him, I can't predict his outcome, I can't be positive he'd be going somewhere better, someone that would understand him and what he needs, but I feel I am in over my head with him. there are other factors to this, but I don't want to go into too much detail and make it look like im throwing a pity party or I'm out for attention.


If you truly feel this way after all the pages of help you have had on this forum I think you should rehome him to make your and his life better. I am telling you this in a respectful way. We all have had our mismatches before we got smarter in choosing the right dog. It is tough to admit it but you and he will be happier in the end.
Once again: where are you located? (or maybe I overlooked that info)
PM me if you need more help in this.


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> I just wanted a family pet, someone to have fun with and go on adventures, not this.


Maybe a GSD is not the dog for you, have you considered this?

You absolutely can have the dog you want, but with a GSD you have to work through this adolescence period first, especially with a high drive dog. If you are not willing to do this, you may want to check with the breeder about taking him back so he/she can place him with someone who can handle and rehabilitate him.

Susan


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

im 6'4 270 and i workout regularly, and he still manages to make me nervous, I feel it is natural because i have been dealing with it everyday for months and as hes gotten bigger its gotten more painful and i don't know when he's going to do it or what to expect out of him. I am not a weak person but I must say that when he bites he bites HARD, it is cringe worthy painful, he has made me bleed. he is tall enough and has bitten my mom in the face, when jumping on me his head at at my chest, I know all dogs are different but I feel he is just a bigger on average dog, very tall and big for his age. he is going to be big dog and I honestly feel this will only get worse.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Susan_GSD_mom said:


> Maybe a GSD is not the dog for you, have you considered this?
> 
> You absolutely can have the dog you want, but with a GSD you have to work through this adolescence period first, especially with a high drive dog. If you are not willing to do this, you may want to check with the breeder about taking him back so he/she can place him with someone who can handle and rehabilitate him.
> 
> Susan


I already explained situation with breeder not to be rude but i dont want to go into more detail about it, breeder is scum and has been ignoring me and i already tried when i first got him and breeder didnt want him back.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

Have you considered a board and train facility? They can hear your concerns assess your dog, the training is more intensive and consistent, they have the timing required to make proper corrections. It gives your dog clear expectations of behavior and they can then bring you and the dog back together and assess that dynamic. It will also give you and the dog a break from each other and let you take a clear look at what is going on and what you want the future to like with this dog. There are facilities that do a lot of work with Shepherds.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

nb1422 said:


> I already explained situation with breeder not to be rude but i dont want to go into more detail about it, breeder is scum and has been ignoring me and i already tried when i first got him and breeder didnt want him back.


My advice. Re-home the dog and get a different breed.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Can someone recommend some trainers or resources he can go to in Rhode Island or New England area?


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I have honestly wanted a dog my whole life, but I was allergic. I grew out of it and my favorite dog was a GSD, i did research for y e a r s....my first breeder I wanted was good and I was comfortable around her dogs they were all approachable and pettable, this person was legit, contracts OFA records everything.. But I was on waiting list 1st spot, and breeder ended up having a litter of all females, and I wanted a boy. So I went with second breeder and ended up unknowingly buying from BYB.He seemed like cool down to earth guy and we had verbal agreement, no contract, my pup was 1500. I feel like I kinda got screwed, he still has not replied to my calls or wanted to see my pup I pretty much am past associating with that man.. I did see maybe one or two red flags with breeder but i think because i've been waiting literally my whole life I was a little impulsive and just wanted a pup, maybe I should have been more patient and now im paying for it. What's done is done though. So I need to make a decision.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> My advice. Re-home the dog and get a different breed.



Lets not tell people what breeds they should and shouldn't get, this wasnt why I came here. you rubbed me the wrong way with that one


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Also second rehoming or surrendering the dog. I am more leaning towards a german shepherd specific rescue that is experienced and can deal with his issues, and take the time to assess him and find him the right home.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

I don't want any other dogs, I'll probably never own another breed.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

nb1422 said:


> Lets not tell people what breeds they should and shouldn't get, this wasnt why I came here. you rubbed me the wrong way with that one


Well based on what you have posted neither you nor your dog are getting their needs met out of your relationship.
My advice stands but hey, do what you want.
I won't bother you again.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

A GSD CAN be the right dog for you!! I have worked with gsd rescues and have come across the most docile sweetest gsd's who just want to please you and be by your side. I have also come across ones that were a pain in the behind, and I had to watch them every millisecond of the day. Then I have some somewhere in between. You can have a GSD OP, you just have to find the RIGHT one for you. I don't think it happened with this guy. If you DO decide to rehome him, but still want a gsd of your own, perhaps go through a rescue and volunteer to be a foster home. Ask if you can only foster male dogs. Maybe while you are fostering you fall in love with a dog, and decide they fit your lifestyle. You can end up adopting them and being a foster failure  and if the dog you foster is a pain in the patootie, and also high drive,it's okay! No commitment, they will be adopted soon and you will move on to the next dog. 

Maybe this might be a good route to go after the bad experiences you have had with this dog currently in your care.


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

Jack's Dad said:


> Well based on what you have posted neither you nor your dog are getting their needs met out of your relationship.
> My advice stands but hey, do what you want.
> I won't bother you again.


How is that advice? you didn't even recommend me an alternative if that's truly what you believe. Did you expect me to walk around with a little chihuahua?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

nb1422 said:


> Lets not tell people what breeds they should and shouldn't get, this wasn't why I came here. you rubbed me the wrong way with that one


OK, you need to stop all this whining, playing the victim role and rude comments to people who take the time and effort to help you.
If you treat the breeder the same way as you do us here, I understand why she is no longer responding. I suggest to close this thread as it is at its dead end.
Good luck with your GSD(s). 
(My PM offer to you no longer stands.)


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

nb1422 said:


> im 6'4 270 and i workout regularly, and he still manages to make me nervous, I feel it is natural because i have been dealing with it everyday for months and as hes gotten bigger its gotten more painful and i don't know when he's going to do it or what to expect out of him. I am not a weak person but I must say that when he bites he bites HARD, it is cringe worthy painful, he has made me bleed. he is tall enough and has bitten my mom in the face, when jumping on me his head at at my chest, I know all dogs are different but I feel he is just a bigger on average dog, very tall and big for his age. he is going to be big dog and I honestly feel this will only get worse.


I am 5'4" and weigh a whole lot less than you, and there's not a dog alive that I am afraid of, respect, yes, but fear, no. It goes a LONG way toward my interactions with them, they absolutely know I don't fear them. If you are afraid, your dog will continue to snow you and control you. You won't admit that he's too much dog for you, yet you are not willing to try anything many very experienced people have suggested to you. My advice, find a good rescue for the poor dog, because the situation as it stands is never going to get better.

Susan


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Yes, this isn't the time to discuss some things. You are in a very painful place right now and once you have made your decision, you need some time to process it. We are all human and this is a time where we wish we were perfectly rational however emotions make it hard. 

Don't beat yourself up over this. Sometimes stuff just dosen't work out and it's no one's fault. You can though, make sure this story has the best possible outcome for the future and if you are successful, that will help ease the pain and let you put this experience behind you.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

People: please chill the heck out!! You guys are being so rude and not helpful at all. This guy is in over his head and is asking for help, it is not our job to tell him what he can't handle. All we can do is read what he says and offer options for him to consider. Example:

A gsd is not for you, maybe you should get another breed of dog

A better way to offer help:

THIS gsd doesn't seem to be working for you, maybe consider contacting a gsd rescue, an all breed rescue, and find a dog or gsd that does meet your needs. (Follow this up with phone numbers or links)

You see, we can say almost the same exact thing in a more tactful manner and be helpful. So far I haven't seen one person offer any resources of links or names of trainers or any organizations in Rhode Island to help the OP. I already PM him mine, but we just need to be helpful people. To the people who have PM him and offered help, this is not directed at you.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I must have missed the post that said he bit your mom in the face. I 3rd a German Shepherd Rescue and not placement directly in a private home at this point. Hope it all works out.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

I disagree Barbie, there have been lots of suggestions made on avenues the OP can take. From the sounds of it even some made in PMs. At this point the pup needs a come to Jesus meeting with someone who KNOWS how to be Jesus. There is nothing wrong with admitting when one is in over their head but it is foolish to not rectify it. In the end the pup will lose and chances are good the OP will move on and possibly find himself in the same situation.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

dmom said:


> I disagree Barbie, there have been lots of suggestions made on avenues the OP can take. From the sounds of it even some made in PMs. At this point the pup needs a come to Jesus meeting with someone who KNOWS how to be Jesus. There is nothing wrong with admitting when one is in over their head but it is foolish to not rectify it. In the end the pup will lose and chances are good the OP will move on and possibly find himself in the same situation.


The only thing anyone can do is make suggestions. Present yours and then move on if you find yourself getting frustrated or angry. At that point, if you continue, what do you think you are accomplishing? Your venting probably makes you feel better but it does nothing for the dog or the owner so why not just move on?


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

NB, one very important piece of advice given here is to seek a trainer. This is imperative if you truly want to keep your dog! Sounds like you spend 24/7 with your dog, so instead of one walk, try three, morning, afternoon, evening.. *But, please seek out a trainer*. The last thing you need is a dog that cannot be controlled, or one that bites. Its unfortunate that he bit your Mom, but if it had been a stranger, I doubt that you would be here posting as the dog most likely 
would have been removed from your house...most likely...


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

Stonevintage said:


> The only thing anyone can do is make suggestions. Present yours and then move on if you find yourself getting frustrated or angry. At that point, if you continue, what do you think you are accomplishing? Your venting probably makes you feel better but it does nothing for the dog or the owner so why not just move on?


Not angry or venting just stating my opinion. Is mine less valid then yours?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

This dog is a bully, and needs some boundaries. You aren't currently equipped to handle him. That's OK. Nothing to be ashamed of or defensive over. You need help, and reading something, in a book or on the internet, isn't going to show you how to handle your dog. 

A board and train with a reputable trainer, with follow up sessions would serve you well. 

How much would you be willing to spend? How far could you travel?


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Think the dog needs a handler like you David. 

I'm sure you could whip him into shape! I think this dog is so high drive and so full of potential, he just needs an outlet that is intense and gives him a job to keep him stimulated. Not many people (me included) are equipped to provide this. I don't think there is any shame in that either.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

That's why I think the OP needs to work with someone on how to handle a high drive dog. The major difference is what the dog finds rewarding, and to what length the dog will go to self reward. Some dogs like to bite. That's fine. You just have to show the dog what it's allowed to bite and what the consequences are for biting the wrong thing. Fama carries a Kong around like a pacifier 

I'm sure the dog needs a handler that isn't afraid of it, that isn't afraid to give it a well timed correction that corresponds to the behavior and excitement level of the dog, and that isn't willing to accept terrible behavior because he thinks the dog should be appreciative of it's situation.

The OP has the wrong idea about living with a dog like this. Until it's understood how to interact with this dog, nothing is going to improve.

The good news is that if the OP is willing to get some help, things could turn around very quickly.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

NB, has you gotten any suggestions of trainers in your area? If not, you might do some calling around, maybe to your local Humane Society, or someplace like that to get some suggestions, particularly a trainer who has some experience with German Shepherd. I think probably almost all of us here have had to get a trainer for their dog at one point or another, I know I did. And it was amazing, even just in one meeting to see the difference the trainer made with my dog. I know you are angry and frustrated right now, but I can tell how much you love your dog and it sounds like getting a trainer is going to be the only way to make this work.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You need a good trainer who will teach you how to handle your dog. The changes needed are in you, the dog will respond to those changes. The dog has the potential of being everything you want in a companion, but you have to do your part. 

Did you apologize to your mother yet? Because this is huge. Sorry. When you wrote that she got mad too, you are shifting the responsibility for your dog onto others. Not ok. Your dog, your responsibility. You can't be blaming the dog, and blaming the breeder, and blaming everyone else. until you are willing to accept that you need real help on changing how you interact with your dog, the dog is only going to get worse.

And allowing the dog to continue in these behaviors only makes them more set. 

What will happen to this puppy is premature euthanasia if you do not get a trainer. Don't think about it. Don't talk about it. DO IT. Because his life depends on it. He is your dog, and if you allow this to happen, you are totally responsible. 

I hope that you can find the right trainer, who can set you on a path to mold the dog that you have been hoping for.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

nb1422 said:


> problem i have with tug is it doesnt work too well, no matter how long object is he will find a way to make it to my flesh, i use a long rag or towel, he doesnt really care for it as much as he cares about hurting me, i will try to wave it in his face and he just jumps at me, i tried again today he just jumped at me and bit my stomach, it hurt, and instead of trying to bite the rag he just bit my hand and it was soo friggin painful...


this makes it sound like you have made a game out of this. hopefully you have already gotten together with a trainer.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

dmom said:


> I disagree Barbie, there have been lots of suggestions made on avenues the OP can take. From the sounds of it even some made in PMs. *At this point the pup needs a come to Jesus meeting with someone who KNOWS how to be Jesus.* There is nothing wrong with admitting when one is in over their head but it is foolish to not rectify it. In the end the pup will lose and chances are good the OP will move on and possibly find himself in the same situation.


 This 100%!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I'm not sure how you disagree with me. Not ONE person has posted a phone number, website, or name of a trainer or organization that can help him. And the whole come to jesus sentence, how is that supposed to help him? It's like someone saying "I'll pray for you". Let's give something tangible. Yes people have given advice, and I think that IS helpful, but the OP is lacking some concrete 411 on who to contact and where, what's the number, etc... Hope that makes sense. Anyway this read was done a whole back, and I am sure the OP has gotten some help by now with the info I PM him, or he found some help on his own.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

dmom said:


> Have you considered a board and train facility? They can hear your concerns assess your dog, the training is more intensive and consistent, they have the timing required to make proper corrections. It gives your dog clear expectations of behavior and they can then bring you and the dog back together and assess that dynamic. It will also give you and the dog a break from each other and let you take a clear look at what is going on and what you want the future to like with this dog. There are facilities that do a lot of work with Shepherds.



This (board and training) is what we did with Leo (10 months old GSD); he had been "diagnosed" as fear aggressive and acted out through mouthy biting. I have no winter, long-sleeve shirt that is not bitten through by devil-pup!! We pretty much did a reset with him with our secondary trainer (here is our trainer's site to see what he does), who took Leo for about 10 days (in his home, positive training and total behavior modification) and gave us time to really evaluate our home, our responsibility to bring Leo back and train him fairly and firmly in our home, and also put in place all that we learned from our trainer. We utilized that time to really regroup and see his progress out of the home and also plan how we would incorporate him back into our home with our older GSD, too. It truly was the best thing to do for Leo. Our vet was ready to medicate (what!) and send us to a pet shrink (Leo @ 7 months!) and we used our alternative option before going that route (see the trials and errors with Leo (here, *here* and finally here). We keep up with our training sessions and inputs from our trainers. 

Honestly, nap time was key early on, redirection (keep doing it until your pup takes to it!), and a really good, fair training system. He would only go after me because, as my trainer said, he was most attached to me (velcro dog) but mouthiness was/is not acceptable. We crate when we can't supervise him, we walk, exercise, utilize shorter more effective training sessions each day, and socialize him weekly at a pup camp. 

He is 10 months now, and we know we will get all 18 months of puppyhood of out him (seriously, it is a loooooooong puppydom) and he will test us, but he is worth it and making great strides (even when we didn't think he would last our 3 month probation, which he passed!!!). We are molding him to be the best pup he can be and that we want, and in turn, he has taught us patience.

Good luck with your pup! Keep with it and invest in a good, fair trainer.

Also you may want to start here, locally: GSD Club of RI or possibly here, regionally


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## Susan_GSD_mom (Jan 7, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> I'm not sure how you disagree with me. Not ONE person has posted a phone number, website, or name of a trainer or organization that can help him. And the whole come to jesus sentence, how is that supposed to help him? It's like someone saying "I'll pray for you". Let's give something tangible. Yes people have given advice, and I think that IS helpful, but the OP is lacking some concrete 411 on who to contact and where, what's the number, etc... Hope that makes sense. Anyway this read was done a whole back, and I am sure the OP has gotten some help by now with the info I PM him, or he found some help on his own.


Barbie, the "Come to Jesus" phrase means something far different than the way I think you took it. It means that the dog, as David Winners said, is a bully and needs someone who's not intimidated by him and can straighten him out. Someone who can show the dog that his behavior is absolutely not acceptable, and give him some limits. I don't think the boy has told anyone (unless in PM) exactly where he is. I know David knows of a trainer, but is quite a ways away. David asked him how much he would be able to spend and how far he would be willing to travel, and I don't think he got an answer. This kid needs to realize he needs help, and make the moves to get it.

Susan


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I think the poster is long gone and I'm not surprised. People can continue to feel they need to be forceful to the point of being rude to a poster. This will continue to be typical of the results they can expect.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Lots of good advice here, we don't need to keep beating a dead horse. OP can start a new thread with updates and questions to let us know how the work with a trainer is going.


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