# Is this worrying puppy behaviour?



## Panda (Feb 28, 2010)

Hi everyone!

I have posted in the intro thread if anyone wants to know a bit about me. 

I am getting a puppy very soon and am a bit concerned about his temperment. I found the breeder on the German Shepherd Dog League site and they are very professional and the parents have been breed surveyed and health checked etc. 

We did not get to choose our puppy as he was the last puppy left in the litter. Looks wise I would have chosen him anyway as he is the biggest and fluffiest with adorable markings. I have been to the breeders a few times just to spend time with the puppy and after readng a post in this forum which had a link to a puppy temperment evaluation test I am a bit concerned. 

He seems quite aloof and uninterested in me or my fiance and doesn't run up to us like the puppies in the litter do. He just runs around sniffing and playing with the other puppies. 
He wont come when we call him or squeak toys etc and when the breeder brings him to us he doesn't seem to even notice we are there, even when we pat him and just runs straight off. 
When my fiance picked him up he struggled a lot and was whining. 

When she brings him out on his own he still shows no interest in us and will go to the other end of the yard and find a place to lie down. 

I am only worried because when I went through the results section in the volhard test it came up with this: 

*So independent that he doesn’t need you or other people 
Doesn’t care if he is trained or not - he is his own person Unlikely to bond to you, since he doesn’t need you. 
A great guard dog for gas stations! 
Do not take this puppy and think you can change him into a lovable bundle - you can’t, so leave well enough alone*

Is this something to be concerned about or do you think once we take him home and he bonds to us he will be a loving puppy? 

P.S He doesn't seem frightened he just seems uninterested. He does wag his tail at the breeder sometimes and will occasionally follow her for a very short time which I guess is a good sign.

Thanks for your help. I really want this puppy but am soscared of getting a dog that won't bond to me.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

have you discussed your concerns with the breeder? what was their response? If you are feeling hesitant that the puppy won't fit in or isn't what you are looking for, I would recommend going elsewhere. Does the breeder have a reason that they think this is the puppy for you? Or is it simply the only one left and they have to sell it to someone??
I would think that, given your concerns, the breeder should be willing to work with you. Even if it means waiting on a different litter to get the RIGHT dog.

ETA: another thought. Have you had "one on one" time with the puppy? or only in a large group with the others in the litter? that could possibly make a difference in his interactions with you, but I'll let someone more knowledge tell us if that is true


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## Panda (Feb 28, 2010)

The breeder has said that the puppy is just too busy sniffing around at all the new smells. They also said that the puppys personality is the serious one in the litter and more of a thinker and also that the puppy will bond to us once we get it home and have one on one time with it. 

We have had time with the puppy without the other puppies around but not without the breeders around.

She said we can take him and if there are any major problems we can give him back to her (within 10 days) and she will refund or we can wait for another litter but I know I won't be able to give him back once I take him because I will get very attached.


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## heather122 (Nov 6, 2009)

I would also wait on getting the puppy. I wouldn't want to get attached to a dog that wasn't attached to me. A puppy is a huge commitment and much more enjoyable if they are as attached to you as you are with them.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Panda said:


> The breeder has said that the puppy is just too busy sniffing around at all the new smells. They also said that the puppys personality is the serious one in the litter and more of a thinker and also that the puppy will bond to us once we get it home and have one on one time with it.


 Your breeder excuses are complete BS, sorry. 

What you see is what you get, the puppy may bond to you down the road (or may not, really) but it's not fun to live with an anti-social dog that doesn't accept anyone besides the family.

Don't let yourself be tricked into getting this puppy.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I'd also wait, for good or for bad, there are tons of great breeders and puppies out there. What is the challenge for all of us is to take the time and have the patience to get the best mix possible for puppy and our level of background/experience/expectation.

As you probably are realizing, the 'look' of a puppy physically (...I would have chosen him anyway as he is the biggest and fluffiest with adorable markings.) is, in the long run probably one of the least important pieces of the puzzle.


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

SO WHAT?
My puppy did this too!
He is more concerced about his FAMILY.
LOL I think its SO silly to come to such a HUGE statement on a small pup.
Take him AWAY from the litter & spend some time with him.
My pup wouldnt let me hold him when I got to meet him & his mother & brothers & sisters.
Its a puppy for crying out loud. lol
My dog was squirming to get away from me.
Hes the best dog I can ask for.


Ps WHAT IS THIs? Who made this test up??? LMAO
"*So independent that he doesn’t need you or other people 
Doesn’t care if he is trained or not - he is his own person Unlikely to bond to you, since he doesn’t need you. 
A great guard dog for gas stations! 
Do not take this puppy and think you can change him into a lovable bundle - you can’t, so leave well enough alone"*


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Please remember this is a GSD puppy.......the breed standard states that they are "aloof" to strangers. Even though this is a "baby"...you are NOT part of it's pack.
The breeder's family & dogs are his/her pack.....he/she doesn't need to be "kissy faced" with you.
A pack of puppies consist of all temperaments....(independent puppy, alpha puppy, subordinate puppy, etc...) you get the idea....
When ALL the puppies needs are supplied by YOU.....the puppy, will bond....it's natural balance.
I am not saying that THIS puppy or breeder has the right puppy for your wants or needs.....I am only stating my opinion on GSD puppies in general.....again...all puppies are different.
My post is only my personal opinion regarding, independent-confident puppies.
If YOU the potential buyer, is having doubts....then absolutely find a different litter to choose from. You should always be confident in YOUR decision.....
again...JMO
Robin


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## wolfspirit (Dec 10, 2009)

My breeder said that Kofi was one of the more independent ones from the litter and when I went to see him at 5 weeks and again at 7, he wasn't really interested in me...

When I bought him home and held him for more than a nano second he screamed blue murder for me to let him go. I have to say I was worried that he wouldn't be a really cuddly 'into me' dog.

But he is 17 weeks old now and has really bonded very well. He is confident (so doesn't panic if I go out of sight) but he is not what I would call independent. On a walk he never goes more than a few meters away from me and he comes first time when i call and is always focused on me. I am super pleased with him, and he likes nothing more than snuggling up and cuddling too. :wub:

So, I understand your concerns, but from my experience it seems to have turned out ok. As others have said, you are not currently part of his pack and if he is happy to leave his pack to come greet strangers, might that also be the type of dog who will be happy to run off and leave you to go greet some other dogs/people? I know I would prefer a dog who wants to stay with his pack.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

The breed standard describes adult GSDs. With all due respect, all puppies I've ever seen that were described as aloof in reality were insecure puppies.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I'm referring to "aloof" (to strangers, confident, independent puppies)......and they have always turned out very sound.... *Scared*, un-socialized puppies are not the same thing.......puppies that are "afraid" of strangers, are different than puppies that "could care less" about strangers......
Aloof is a term that often misunderstood & misused.......aloof, should never mean _afraid._
Respectfully,
Robin


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

GSD07 said:


> The breed standard describes adult GSDs. With all due respect, all puppies I've ever seen that were described as aloof in reality were insecure puppies.


I also read the standard the same way. And my GSD's have been this way. Puppies are puppies, happy, joyful, playful and ENGAGING with people.

It's as they are adults that they start figuring out 'their' people from everyone else and being a bit more discriminating.

You saw the other puppies in the litter and how they acted. If you prefer that temperment (and only the one you may be getting was standoffish????) then that's what you should wait for.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Robin's assessment, when I got Dodge, and I visited ALOT, he could have cared less about me, I held him the whole way home and he was squirmy , "i wanna get away from you",,however, after getting him home, that puppy became the most bonded 'up my butt' dog I ever could have asked for.

He was very aloof, could have cared less about people/kids/other dogs, if he didn't know them, but a stranger could go over him and he would allow it no problem. 

He was my siamese twin for 13 years, and I never regretted once taking him..

HOWEVER, I think what would bother me some, is if this puppy was disinterested in the breeder? All puppies usually few their breeders as part of the pack and as far as 'people' go, I would expect to see them follow their 'leader' so to speak ))

In the end, if you have any reservations, I would pass.


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## Minnieski (Jan 27, 2009)

I wouldn't ignore the results of the temperament test if it was performed correctly. I think that our pup turned out exactly how the test predicted.

We had a similar experience to yours a few years ago, with a lab puppy. She was the last one left, and although both parents had great hips and were titled in retrieving events, the pup could care less about us. She would have made a great hunting companion for someone who wanted a very independent dog, but we wanted a dog that wanted to be with us, and she didn't. It was just us, it was her independent personality. I'm glad we didn't end up buy the pup, because even though we were excited about her she wasn't what we were looking for.

Remember, this is going to be your companion for the next 13 years, so choose the best dog for you.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I'm going to present a modern day scenario.....2 of my own dogs.
1 male puppy out of a litter of 4 (A-litter)....all 4 very social, however;..1male "aloof" to strangers (outsiders)...not scared, just not interested.
1 male puppy out of litter of 5 (C-litter)....all 5 very social...all liked and welcomed ANYBODY.
Puppy male from A litter, we kept and competed in German Conformation shows...did extremely well. Strong character, independent & confident. He is now ScH3, kkl1 V-rated.....and still LOVES his family, social to all people but is not a "shmooze" towards strangers.
Puppy male from C litter, kept and competed with the same, also has done well. He is strong, confident & VERY social to strangers. He is a shmooze!
He will be titled this year.
BOTH dogs are wonderful! Both dogs are confident, social and very good in character.
This is the "aloof" temperament I am explaining in confident, social puppies.
You should always get the puppy that fits your requirements......it should be a commitment that one takes seriously.
Best wishes,
Robin


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GSD07 said:


> The breed standard describes adult GSDs. With all due respect, all puppies I've ever seen that were described as aloof in reality were insecure puppies.


Amen! Puppies at that age should be friendly and out going to everyone!

I think you should really do some thinking about the puppy and only take him home if you are really happy with him.

BTW that test or one like it is generally considered to be a pretty good indicater of the adult dog. not perfect because obvilusly environment, experience and training all play a large roll; but it certainly gives a good view of the dog's potential. BUT realize that a lot of the results are a matter of interpretation also!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I believe, though, that the test is most accurate when administered by an experienced person. 

Does the breeder do any type of temperament testing?


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I went with my aunt and uncle to look at Golden Retriever puppies when I was a teen. They had 3 males left and one female. My aunt and uncle wanted a female. Now, my family was going to be looking for a Golden's as well and we also wanted a female. However, on that trip I was supposed to be just an observer. 

Now, these were Golden's mind you. Friendly to everyone. However, the female was sniffing the yard and interested in EVERYTHING but us. So my aunt and uncle ended up getting a male who interacted with them. Now, there was one female left. And in my wise teenage mind, that was dog for me. It was Golden, it was female, and it was ready to go. *I weep for myself at that age* So I dragged my mom down and we got her. You know what? She stayed independent for the rest of her life. She was fine on her own which was a plus but she wasn't a dog who wanted constant attention which is what *I* wanted.

She was perfectly content to dig out of the yard and take off. When you threw a ball, she'd go get it but had no intention of bringing it back to you. She was also afraid of water but that's a different topic...lol.

Now that was over 15 years ago. I took this dog with me when I moved out. She was mine and I loved her. When she died, since I lived alone, I knew I wanted a German Shephard. I went to the shelter and got a German Shephard mix. It looked like a pure bred as a puppy. I learned a valuable lesson. I interacted with this dog and it interacted with me. When I threw a ball, he not only went after it, he returned it. He wanted to interact with me. Now, I still wanted a female but he was a male as I had never had a male before. But I knew his personality was a better fit for me. He's been my heart dog. He's a velcro dog like nobody's business.

In conclusion, I would wait and get the dog you feel right about. In my case, the independence didn't change. 

To this day, when I look at puppies, I do the fetch test. I have a chow mix who won't go get ball to save his life and he's been the most difficult to train because he has no desire to please me - at all. My Golden went after the ball and didn't bring it back. She was average to train. My German Shepherd from nine weeks would go after the ball and bring it back. He was scary smart to train. He had a desire to work with me.

When I look for a dog, I want a dog that wants to interact with me right from the get go. This puppy may bond to you or it may not. But I like to stack the odds in my favor.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Argos was an aloof puppy. I wouldn't say he was anti-social, bt he visited for a few minutes and then decided he had better things to do and went off to explore the yard. Almost all the pictures I have of him at 7 weeks are of his butt walking away from me or him squirming to be let go. He's grown out of most of it, and with training is pretty compliant and obedient. However, I will say that some of that "there is better stuff to do" still exists in his personality at times. He likes to find things to do, and if you're not it...well he can do it somewhere else.


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## Josiebear (Oct 16, 2006)

Josie was pretty independent as a young pup still is sometimes and was the only female out of the litter. When i first got her she could care less about humans. Her main focus were other dogs. The breeder did socialize her with many people and children but for some reason she rather play with dogs, she was very bonded with the breeder though. However her one brother clung onto me like glue I would have taken him just because of the fact he picked me but he was already taken.

She did let me put her on her back and mess with her but preferably she rather play with other dogs. For awhile i had to take her out by herself without my other dog and play with her and do little puppy basic obedience ( sit, downs etc). I'd play ball with her and would have her chase the ball on a rope around. As she aged she is now having better focus on me and our bond is definitely growing the more i spend time with her. It's almost like getting to know eachother for the first time. Even though Josie was an independent puppy my gut feeling says she'll be a great adult dog just because she's so un-shakeable. So far i have been very pleased with her. She is still social with strangers even though she's independent. If a stranger has a dog she'd rather check the dog out. If it's just the stranger she'll check the stranger out.... lol 

So the only thing i can say is go with your gut feeling, if you're having 2nd thoughts then it's best to look somewhere else. An independent puppy isn't always necessarily a bad thing imo. Especially when he/she barely knows you.


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## Panda (Feb 28, 2010)

Hey everyone,
thanks for all the replies. Just to be clear I have not actually done the test with the puppy, sorry to confuse you. I only read the test wen I saw it on this forum and haven't seen the do since. I went throug in my mind with all the past interactions with the puppy and relaed them to the test but have not actually got the puppy alone and gone through each part of the test. 

Next time I go see the puppy I will dothisand see how he reacts. 

When we first went to see the puppies they all stood up against the little fence waggint their tails so they were all keen to meet us but he was the first to lose interest. 

I didn't have any doubts until I read the test and I am pretty sure I do want the puppy but will not rush into it. I will keep visiting him and see how he goes. 

None of the puppies chased the ball when I threw it they all just seemed to interested in their surroundings. 
I remember when I was younger we went to a friend of a friends house and they wer breeding german shepherds and the puppies were about 6 weeks and I remember sitting on the floor and they were all over us and biting and chewing and playing. I always thought most puppies were like that. 

This litter only consists of 3 male puppies. Could the small litter size have anything to do with it? 

One last thing it was very hot the days that I went to see the puppies and they wanted to lie in the shade which is reasonable, so maybe it was just that they were hot and bothered.

P.S None of the puppies seem to be the type who follow humans and are all over you. One of them seems to come up to us (or just happens to walk past us) more often and lingers for a pat for a very short time. 

Again thanks for the reply.


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