# Pure Black German shepherds



## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Hi everyone! We are visiting a breeder in Michigan, called Pure Black German Shepherds. Has anyone had experience with this breeder? We are looking for a companion dog for my young daughter and already own a 9 year old shepherd. 
Thank you!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

I would strongly advise against a breeder who breeds solely for color. Temperament and health need to come first, both in selecting dogs to pair, and in your selection of a breeder. 

Based on their website, they don't appear to do any health testing, there's no titling, no information on their breeding stock. The "reserve a puppy now!" thing is a turnoff- I want a breeder who wants to know as much about me as I want to know about them. 

For what they're charging, you can do much better.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Yes, there isn't much information on the website itself. I did speak with the breeder for about an hour last night. He says he has all the health information available for me to view when I go to look at the parents. He owns both.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

He does not show his dogs.


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## RobertJ (Jul 14, 2015)

uh, that's a yellow flag bordering on red flag right there. There are reputable DDR breeders out there (Vom Banach and Boeselager to name the two I used) who periodically have all-blacks available. Of course their interview process for potential buyers is very thorough - what some might call overly so - but then again they're pups are excellent. Be ready to spend $1,600-1,800 on the pup not including transport. Not sure how important the solid black aspect is... hopefully it's not the most important. My black (Danke - female) has bleed through (sable) between her toes... it's the funniest thing!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

ameliejo said:


> Yes, there isn't much information on the website itself. I did speak with the breeder for about an hour last night. He says he has all the health information available for me to view when I go to look at the parents. He owns both.


What kind of health information? DM testing? Hip/elbow scores?

I'd be wary of paying that much for a dog that comes from untitled stock bred for color.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

I would like a black puppy, but of course it's not the most important thing to me. I was told people specifically breed for black Shepherds, but I guess that isn't the case? We paid $1500 for my dog, but he is from show lines.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I would not recommend purchasing from ANY breeder who's primary focus is on color, or anything else so minor. Focus should be on temperament, health, and preservation/improvement of the breed as a whole. Not on something as simple as color. I am in MI and have been heavily involved in GSDs in this state for 17+ years and I have never heard of this breeder before. That tells you how active they are (or rather aren't) in the breed beyond producing what they believe is a marketable color of puppies.

I would suggest looking elsewhere. From a genetics standpoint, black is the second most commonly occurring color in working lines. It is also not uncommon in American lines. You should not have any problems finding a solid black puppy from a breeder who has better priorities and focuses on health and temperament and is using titled, health certified, proven breeding stock.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Agree with Chris and I have been around the dog world and competing in MI since the early 80's.


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## RobertJ (Jul 14, 2015)

In the DDR lines - which tends to have darker pigmentation - solid-blacks are available naturally. As are beautiful dark sables. But they are not bred for color at all. Temperament, conformation, solid nerves - all that good stuff. Whatever is thrown is thrown - and there's sometimes an onyx beauty in the litter.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Thank you. I guess I received the wrong information. The temperament of the dog is very important to me. I don't want to jeopardize the health of my daughter or my senior dog. I am having trouble finding any available GSD puppies in my area. I have been looking for 6 months. I really can not afford to pay more than $1500 for a puppy. I took my senior dog through agility training and really enjoyed it, so I plan on training the new puppy as well. I am trying to introduce a pup before my dog gets too old to enjoy playing it.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

You can look north too.

Lucescu Kennels is in Fenwick, ON near Niagara Falls. They breed working lines and may have black puppies.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Just an FYI that is one of the nicest breeders I have met. His dogs are beautiful.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

This is Efa. She is beautiful. She's solid black and gorgeous. She came from a bad breeder, although I'm sure the breeder was plenty nice to the people that originally adopted her. 

Efa has seizures, poor nerves (temperament), and a weak immune system. I got her in February. In the past 5 months of owning her, she has cost me more $$$ than adding together all the vet care, food, toys, training classes, etc. from the past 3 years of owning my other GSD. He was adopted from a reputable breeder. Save your money and purchase from a reputable breeder. Looks/color aren't everything.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

He gave me a two year health guarantee, has the parents registered with the AKC, the puppies will be checked by a vet and I have a written contract. No, the breeder isn't sophisticated, but he spent a great deal of time with my family and he really loves his dogs. He has trained them, just hasn't shown them. The dogs are raised in the home, not outside in a kennel. He is just starting out. Both parents were there and have fantastic temperaments. I purchased my senior dog from show lines and half the litter died within the first few years. There were dogs that died from EPI and congestive heart failure. My dog is one of two, out of 8, that survived. The breeder had all the right paperwork and I'm still friends with her to this day.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

ameliejo said:


> He gave me a two year health guarantee, has the parents registered with the AKC, the puppies will be checked by a vet and I have a written contract. No, the breeder isn't sophisticated, but he spent a great deal of time with my family and he really loves his dogs. He has trained them, just hasn't shown them. The dogs are raised in the home, not outside in a kennel. He is just starting out. Both parents were there and have fantastic temperaments. I purchased my senior dog from show lines and half the litter died within the first few years. There were dogs that died from EPI and congestive heart failure. My dog is one of two, out of 8, that survived. The breeder had all the right paperwork and I'm still friends with her to this day.


Does he at the very least do hip/elbow certifications? Sophistication has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge.

The stuff you're talking about with your previous dogs is EXACTLY why you need to go to a breeder who health tests and puts a tremendous amount of thought and care into which dogs they're pairing together. Show lines, working lines, BYB pet mishmash lines like this... that has nothing to do with health problems. Someone breeding dogs they know absolutely nothing about with zero health testing, that's what causes health problems. You're repeating history with this. Someone that's breeding for color alone isn't going to know which of their dogs carries potential health risks.


I'm not sure why you're so set on this breeder when very experienced people are telling you to run.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

It sounds like you are very comfortable with this breeder. I think that is important. I came to this forum after I got my GSD and I was new to the breed. I have learned so much more being here about GSDs and breeders.

I inadvertently made a fairly good choice with bloodlines and breeder. I wanted to go local as I wanted to check out where I was actually getting the dog from so as to ensure the breeder's website reflected reality. It did. And my breeder was very picky. Would not place puppy without meeting the potential buyer.

After being on this forum, I know about many top US and Canadian breeders and would have no hesitation in having the dog shipped w/o actually visiting. I do know that they would probably interview me (and I them) extensively by phone.

There are some very experienced members on the forum who are giving good advice. Health issues can be heart breaking. Ultimately, it's up to you and it's your choice. Good luck where ever you go for your puppy.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

ameliejo said:


> He gave me a two year health guarantee, has the parents registered with the AKC, the puppies will be checked by a vet and I have a written contract.


Efa is registered with the AKC and was vet checked when I first got her. Made no difference to the health issues she has developed. You seem dead set to ignore the advice very knowledgeable members of the GSD community are giving you. That is your choice. I wouldn't take the risk. Efa was a rescue. I would never have supported such a breeder, no matter how good a salesperson they were.


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