# Question about stillbirths and pups that live-



## farnln (Nov 4, 2012)

Ok, I have a deposit down on a pup with a very good/well thought of breeder and was considering a pup from 2 different litters born about a week apart. I am looking for a male pup for SAR. (Must be a male, already own a female.)

The first litter had several stillbirths and only one male and several females that lived. The second litter, virtually the same thing happened/many stillbirths, and one male and several females lived.

This is a good breeder. I get that stuff happens sometimes that we cannot control. But, that said, would it make you nervous getting a pup from a litter with so many stillbirths? Genetic problems?


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

farnln said:


> The first litter had several stillbirths and only one male and several females that lived. The second litter, virtually the same thing happened/many stillbirths, and one male and several females lived.
> 
> *Genetic problems?*


I'm here to learn too!
Was the same male used in both litters?


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## farnln (Nov 4, 2012)

Nope, different males.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I would ask if they are doing any testing on the females for viral or bacterial problems that can cause this. 

I would be concerned. This seems like a lot of death in two separate litters to be an anamoly. The breeder is probably great, but they have an issue they need to figure out before breeding again.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

IMO that's a lot of death, one of my two biggest concerns in owning a dog is health. Delgado's litter had a runt that lived less than 24 hours before passing even with the breeder's assistance but the rest of the litter was perfectly healthy so it didn't concern me

That many deaths with two separate genetically different and different age litters to me points to maybe an environmental factor or something else, that's not natural.

I'd go elsewhere personally and not take the risk, regardless of who it was.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Yes, that would concern me.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Stillbirths happen occasionally. Could be delay in birth, blocked by another pup, etc. Contrary to popular belief, it happens.

Kudos to your breeder for being upfront about what happened. They could have said small litter or nothing at all.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

It is quite common to have stillbirths during whelping .Once labor begins, the placenta and cord is the only thing keeping pup alive until it gets outside. If its a long labor and goes on and on, the placentas can separate and the pup will die from suffocation since it has no air to breath. 
You can tell how long a pup has been dead once it is "born" by the color of the sack and placenta. If the sack is clear and the placenta red/blood color it usually means it just happened. If the inside of sack has lots of dark green and the placenta is dark green ,or the pup is mummified, the pup has most likely been dead for a awhile in the uterous. Sometimes a dead pup can delay delivery and cause more to die.
This many in two litters in the same kennel would make me question the bitches having infections or something else going on.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> It is quite common to have stillbirths during whelping .Once labor begins, the placenta and cord is the only thing keeping pup alive until it gets outside. If its a long labor and goes on and on, the placentas can separate and the pup will die from suffocation since it has no air to breath.
> You can tell how long a pup has been dead once it is "born" by the color of the sack and placenta. If the sack is clear and the placenta red/blood color it usually means it just happened. If the inside of sack has lots of dark green and the placenta is dark green ,or the pup is mummified, the pup has most likely been dead for a awhile in the uterous. Sometimes a dead pup can delay delivery and cause more to die.
> * This many in two litters in the same kennel would make me question the bitches having infections or something else going on*.


I realize that stillbirths happen as well. And maybe would even be more understanding of losing the last one or two in a large litter after a long labor, but the bolded part above is what would have me interested.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

how old are the dams?

when did they get vaccinated in relation to being bred


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Good question


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

agree with the timing/coincidence. I would have done a necropsy on the second litter pups that passed, just to get a possible answer. Obviously we know this breeder is well regarded, and it may just be coincidence. I see the upcoming litter is from a bitch and stud proven over and over, and both could be considered "seniors". I know they are awesome dogs, and hope you can get a pup from that breeding...as it will possibly be the bitches last litter.


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