# Alternative to Fromm?



## Rainer (Feb 15, 2012)

I've been feeding Rainer Fromm Surf N' Turf. While he absolutely loves his food, he has been occasionally having bouts with slimy, explosive diarrhea - twice so far in the past 4-ish months. The vet suggested that he may have a slight case of IBD and maybe try to change his food. I have tried feeding him Orijen and Acana in the past, both with horrible results. I do not think he is able to handle the higher protein. 

He is currently eating 3 cups a day of the Fromm (suggested for his weight is 4 - 4 3/4). I've put the analysis/ingredients of the particular formula he eats below. Anyone have any suggestions on an alternative (other than RAW - no offense to RAW. I would love to be able to have him on a complete RAW diet, unfortunately we do not have the freezer space.) 

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*Guaranteed Analysis* Protein30% Min Fat19% Min Fiber3.5% Max Moisture10% Max Omega 3 Fatty Acids0.6% Min Omega 6 Fatty Acids2.8% Min Total Microorganisms220,264 CFU/g Min*

Calorie Content* kcal/kg4,092 kcal/lb1,860 kcal/cup*409
*
Ingredients*: Pacific Wild Salmon, Duck Meal, Russet Potatoes, Pea Flour, Sweet Potatoes, Duck, Chicken Fat, Dried Tomato Pomace, Salmon Meal, Whole Dried Egg, Pea Protein, Chicken, Flaxseed, Wisconsin Cheese, Salmon Oil, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Apples, Green Beans, Chicken Cartilage, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt, Chicory Root Extract, Alfalfa Sprouts, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, Taurine, Parsley, Vitamins (vitamin A acetate, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, Vitamin B12 supplement, choline bitartrate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, L-Ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin), Minerals (zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, copper sulfate, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, sorbic acid (preservative), ferrous proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, magnesium proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate), Probiotics (dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product)

** Grain-Free Surf & Turf dog food - Fromm Family Foods
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As a side note: He does get Grizzly Salmon Oil with his breakfast, he is 87ish lbs, almost 14 months old, tried coconut oil for a little while but was worried it was contributing to his diarrhea (did start slow adding about a tsp a week), used to receive Nupro joint supplement as a preventative measure but have also held off on that as well to see how his tummy does.

Sorry for such a long post, and thanks in advance for any help.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have been very pleased with the Nature's Logic (which I buy mail order) Beau did fine on the Fromm puppy (though the stools were never firm but they were formed) but Grim could not handle Flax (which is also in Nupro) and after Grim was on NL for 6 months with great blood panels afterwards, I moved Beau over and am very pleased.

Edit-neither one of my dogs did too well with Origen. Grim threw it up (and he was used to protein levels in TOTW) and it gave Beau the runs.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

I am looking for a new food for my dogs so i am really interested in this thread. Ranger was on Iams (yuck) and Buzz is on Canidae. I tried Canidae for Ranger but it did not agree with him. Blue Buffalo was okay but while looking at one of the mail order sites (chewy.com) i found TOTW for $46 for 30 lbs. that seemed like a good price for a good food so i might give that a try. Seems like it might be an alternative to Fromm.

Robin


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Have you thought about going with the Fromm Gold? Its not grain free but that might be the problem to begin with.


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## Jd414 (Aug 21, 2012)

I mix fromm salmon tunalini with fromm large breed with no problems. Maybe add olewo carrots for dinner.


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## Rainer (Feb 15, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> I have been very pleased with the Nature's Logic (which I buy mail order) Beau did fine on the Fromm puppy (though the stools were never firm but they were formed) but Grim could not handle Flax (which is also in Nupro) and after Grim was on NL for 6 months with great blood panels afterwards, I moved Beau over and am very pleased.
> 
> Edit-neither one of my dogs did too well with Origen. Grim threw it up (and he was used to protein levels in TOTW) and it gave Beau the runs.


I looked at their website and the food looks interesting, but I'm concerned about the calcium levels. From what I've seen, it is good to keep young dogs on a lower calcium food until they mature? I see their formulas are a little over 2% Ca. Also concerned about the protein levels..Rai is used to 30% and these formulas have around 38%. Worried that may give him the runs... Maybe I'll try to pick up a small bag somewhere and give it a go though, Thanks!



Rangers-mom said:


> I am looking for a new food for my dogs so i am really interested in this thread. Ranger was on Iams (yuck) and Buzz is on Canidae. I tried Canidae for Ranger but it did not agree with him. Blue Buffalo was okay but while looking at one of the mail order sites (chewy.com) i found TOTW for $46 for 30 lbs. that seemed like a good price for a good food so i might give that a try. Seems like it might be an alternative to Fromm.
> 
> Robin


I want to stay away from TOTW due to their recalls.... The thing I liked most about Fromm is that they are a small family company with no past recalls. Makes me feel safer feeding it.



llombardo said:


> Have you thought about going with the Fromm Gold? Its not grain free but that might be the problem to begin with.


I have actually considered it! If nothing else, I can always find a small bag and feed him the Fromm Gold and see how he does. We did try Cannidae, non-grain free kind, when he was much younger (10-15 weeks) and it made him super itchy. Worth a shot to try again. 

Thank you all for your replies


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Rainer said:


> I looked at their website and the food looks interesting, but I'm concerned about the calcium levels. From what I've seen, it is good to keep young dogs on a lower calcium food until they mature? I see their formulas are a little over 2% Ca. Also concerned about the protein levels..Rai is used to 30% and these formulas have around 38%. Worried that may give him the runs... Maybe I'll try to pick up a small bag somewhere and give it a go though, Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually did not switch from Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold until he quit growing in stature -- I think around 15 months because of the calcium concern. The owner of NL argues that it is all about the source of calcium and how it is absorbed (raw feeding argument as well) but I did not take that gamble either. 

I also think Fromm is a great company and never had an issue with a single bag of food! May want to start lining up formulas of what did and did not work to find commonalities. I liked TOTW as well but migrated due to both the diamond recalls, a Baaaaad bag they said was ok (it was rank!), and the canola oil which is almost guaranteed to be GMO and some concerns about the degreadation products of canola.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I wanted to feed Fromm because I like the company. I switched all my dogs to Fromm Gold and unfortunately they all got itchy, Pan got some sort of staph infection, and everyone's stools were huge and the most horrid, smelly ones ever. I gave up and switched back to California Natural. I use the Lamb and Rice "limited ingredient" diet which is also and all life stages food (OK for puppies). I had been feeding that for years before I switched to Fromm and now they are back on it. Kinda bummed the Fromm didn't work out.


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## Jd414 (Aug 21, 2012)

Liesje said:


> I wanted to feed Fromm because I like the company. I switched all my dogs to Fromm Gold and unfortunately they all got itchy, Pan got some sort of staph infection, and everyone's stools were huge and the most horrid, smelly ones ever. I gave up and switched back to California Natural. I use the Lamb and Rice "limited ingredient" diet which is also and all life stages food (OK for puppies). I had been feeding that for years before I switched to Fromm and now they are back on it. Kinda bummed the Fromm didn't work out.


Every time I look at California naturals ingredients they just don't impress me at all


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## Jd414 (Aug 21, 2012)

Jd414 said:


> Every time I look at California naturals ingredients they just don't impress me at all
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Wasn't done lol...

I hear good things about the good but I'm always iffy


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I like that it's an LID, so there is one carb and one protein. My non-GSD (rescue mutt) is sensitive to certain things (I believe the flax seed in Fromm, and he doesn't do well on poultry based kibble even though he does fine on raw chicken) so I prefer kibbles that don't have an ingredient list a mile long. It's not a grain free product, though they do offer a line of that, but my dogs have done well on it for years and every time I've tried something else I haven't had the same results. We've also tried Wyson, Earthborne, and TOTW.


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

A couple of other options that haven't been mentioned are Annamaet, and Dr. Tim's. Both are very good foods made by an excellent manufacturer. They are both lower protein as well, and offer both grain-free and grain inclusive formulas.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

You might look at Natural Balance Fish & Sweet Potato. It's lower protein and less rich. I don't think it's as good a food as Fromm, but I had one GSD girl who tolerated it and nothing else. I can't say why, but it was what worked for her. They're all different.


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## Rainer (Feb 15, 2012)

Okay, so...I have been looking through everything, and now I'm more confused than ever! So many good options. Lol. I also miscalculated Rai's age. He will actually be 15 months on the 21st.

I am kind of leaning towards the Lamb formula of Nature's Logic. It has no chicken/flax, and is the lowest protein formula they offer (32% I believe). Jocyn, you mentioned you buy yours online. Since all the good pet food stores closest to me have closed, I would really appreciate if you may please share where you buy your bags from? I was thinking of buying a 4.4lb just to see if Rainer will even like it before I commit to a bigger bag.

A friend of mine feeds her GSD California Natural, and I have tried the Kangaroo and Red Lentil formula with Rainer before. At 21% protein per each bag, though, wouldn't I have to feed him more cups per day just to maintain his weight?

My other options are Fromm Gold and Natural Balance. It's frustrating because he does so well with the Fromm, poops are small and well-formed (most of the time), but he has these bouts with the horrible diarrhea which make him miserable. Poor puppy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Rainer said:


> My other options are Fromm Gold and Natural Balance. It's frustrating because he does so well with the Fromm, poops are small and well-formed (most of the time), but he has these bouts with the horrible diarrhea which make him miserable. Poor puppy.


Have you thought about adding yogurt, cottage cheese, or pumpkin? My golden is like this, but I'm starting to wonder if its the food(because it has happened on different foods) or if he is getting into something and eating it. I'm leaning toward him getting into something, but I can't figure out what. One time when he was younger he ate my son's YMCA card That came out in pieces in his watery poop.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

chewy.com

NL recommends soaking the food before feeding. A lot of interesting articles on the NL site. The president of the company will reply to emails directly as well.

Keep a list of what does and does not work and start looking for common ingredients. I honestly believe each dog is different.

I did have a dog do quite well on Natural Balance (which I went to when bloodwork was "off" with Evo)....I moved my working dog off of it to TOTW because he was having a hard time keeping weight on and did have higher endurance and heat tolerance on higher protein and fat foods. I won't feed TOTW now because of how Diamond managed my issue with a bag of rank smelling bison food "its fine" just before the last recall. 

I think 21% is probably adequate for a non working dog.


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## Rainer (Feb 15, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Have you thought about adding yogurt, cottage cheese, or pumpkin? My golden is like this, but I'm starting to wonder if its the food(because it has happened on different foods) or if he is getting into something and eating it. I'm leaning toward him getting into something, but I can't figure out what. One time when he was younger he ate my son's YMCA card That came out in pieces in his watery poop.


I used to add cottage cheese to his food regularly, but stopped when he had his first bout of diarrhea. The vet did recommend that I start adding enzymes and probiotics to his food and see if that may possibly help. Will look into that next 



jocoyn said:


> chewy.com
> 
> NL recommends soaking the food before feeding. A lot of interesting articles on the NL site. The president of the company will reply to emails directly as well.
> 
> ...


He is not a full blown Schutzhund dog, but we do do protection training, obedience training, as well as many walks throughout the week at up to 4-6 miles per walk. We have dabbled in Agility and recently went to Herding a couple weekends ago...nothing consistent since everything is too far away and gas is ridiculous lately (I'm unemployed right now).

I agree with you about TOTW. I'll try NL and will try California Natural afterwards if that doesn't agree with him. Thanks!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

NL does have digestive enzymes already added. I quit adding them when I realized that.. but I figure added amylases cannot hurt any food with carbohydrates.

*None* of their diets are LID if you wind up with an allergy problem. That one may not have chicken but it does have egg product in it. Actually the lamb has products from lamb, eggs, cattle, and pigs.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I switched from the Fromm's LBP to Acana lamb & apple. This particular formula is only 25% protein. Which Acana did your puppy have poor results with?


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## DollBaby (Oct 31, 2012)

I switched mine to Halo. Can't say enough good about it. They look great, stools are good... it's a little pricey, but worth it to me seeing what it's doing for these kids!


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## Rainer (Feb 15, 2012)

I don't believe he has an allergy to chicken, but maybe a sensitivity. He does eat raw eggs with no issues afterwards. Want to try to cut down on poultry and see if maybe that will help with his, seemingly, random tummy issues.

I think we had tried either the Acana Prairie or Grasslands. Can't remember which...

I've been spending around $75 per bag for the Fromm...it would be awesome to find something that gets rid of his tummy problems at a lower price point, while still maintaining quality.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't know if it was the chicken in the LBP or what, but I noticed that my puppy's inner ear tips have gone from pink to beige now that he's on the Acana lamb. Weird, lol.


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## Tim Connell (Nov 19, 2010)

We have always had great luck with the Holistic Select Lamb, which seems to be easy on the stomachs of a wide range of dogs we have fed it to. (mostly Malinois and GSD)

Even one guy that had a sensitive stomach on almost every other food...seems to be a great middle of the road food for everyone. Great bang for the buck.


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## SusiQ (Jul 27, 2007)

I've been feeding Back To Basics with great success, although it is a bit pricey. I had to abandon all kibbles containing fish, as my Raven will not eat it.


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## Rainer (Feb 15, 2012)

Update for any who are interested 

Rainer has now been switched to Nature's Logic (Lamb formula). His poop has been more solid and he eats a lot less per day compared to Fromm - which is awesome because it is cheaper for the same size bag and will also last a little longer! I'm hoping this remains a good food for him...Gonna try it out for a few more months and see. Fingers crossed!


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

I will be switching from Fromm to Nature's Logic as well. I will try and remember to update this thread.


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