# female fighting



## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

hello all 
i have 2 female dogs 1 is my gsd and the other is a lab they are my gsd is 11 months and my lab is 12 months i love them both and i try to play with them both they have plenty of room out side to play so i go out with them and play. 
Now my problem 
when my lab comes up to me and wants attention i start to pet her my gsd starts fighting her its NOT play fighting either i just broke up one of the worse fights they had.
i'm at a loss as to what i can do i love them both so much and i would hate to get rid of one of them and i don't wanna have to crate one while i play with the other.

can any one please help me asap this is time sensitive because im afraid one of them is going to get hurt :help::help::help::help::help::help:


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Once females fight, they won't resolve it and it will get worse. Two choices: keeping them apart or rehome one. Keep your favorite.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

bitches=stitches

Did no one warn you that two females is a bad idea? Sometimes it works, often it does not. Two males can squabble and then be best friends, two females will most often continue to escalate. 
Crate and rotate, find a good trainer. One that is used to dealing with working dogs. But here is the bottom line, this may not be fixable so you need to sit yourself down and decide if you can live with crate and rotate for the rest of their lives, AND provide a quality life for them. If you cannot then you need to rehome one.
Two points before you get told otherwise, spaying won't help and these dogs are going to need strict and serious obedience and diligent handling.


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## wolfebergk9 (Oct 11, 2014)

Does the lab ever start any of the fights, or just the gsd?


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

just the gsd


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Males fight for breeding rights, females fight for breathing rights.
Doubtful that this can be fixed, because once they have begun to fight, it’s on. They are close in age, too. In my experience, this doesn’t get better, but worse.
You have two options: keep them separated so they don’t see each other (crate and rotate) or rehome one.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> bitches=stitches
> 
> Did no one warn you that two females is a bad idea? Sometimes it works, often it does not. Two males can squabble and then be best friends, two females will most often continue to escalate.
> Crate and rotate, find a good trainer. One that is used to dealing with working dogs. But here is the bottom line, this may not be fixable so you need to sit yourself down and decide if you can live with crate and rotate for the rest of their lives, AND provide a quality life for them. If you cannot then you need to rehome one.
> Two points before you get told otherwise, spaying won't help and these dogs are going to need strict and serious obedience and diligent handling.


I’m sorry, really sorry, but bitches = stitches, I can’t stop laughing. 

Bitch on bitch aggression is common in the GSD breed. Looks like you’ll either have a lifetime of crate and rotate, or rehome one. Some people get away with 2 bitches, depends on the dogs, but yours is obviously not one of them. I have two females, one is 9 and one is 7 months, but I also went into this scenario with eyes wide open, and I’m fully aware that once my pup has her first heat and the puppy pass is gone, crate and rotate may be what we are looking at. And we are okay with that. We have plenty of inside and outside separated spaces that they can both get plenty of one on one time, and can both be outside with me and never have to actually encounter each other physically.

I would start the crate and rotate process now before anything more serious happens. They need their own play time with you, their own training time with you, and time to be alone with you just relaxing. That’s going to take management, and you need to think long and hard about whether this lifestyle will work for you or if it’s too much. If it’s too much, like Wolfy said, pick your favorite and rehome the other. Once it starts, it doesn’t stop. Keep in mind, if you keep the GSD, you’re not going to have an easy time with her around any other dogs unless you have very firm obedience in place, and she learns to ignore other dogs in public.


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## wolfebergk9 (Oct 11, 2014)

Do you correct the gsd when she behaves like this? We have 2 females, same age, that normally get along with each other unless one of us humans is playing with them both at the same time. We just play with them separately now, but they can be together at other times. Are you able to leave one inside while you play with the other outside? It seems the gsd is getting jealous over the lab's attention. Do they get along at other times, when you are not playing with them outside?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Female same sex aggression seems to be reserved primarily for other household dogs. I never had any problems with my females outside the home with other female dogs.

I can't really say my oldest female and the one younger than her are same sex aggressive as my oldest started picking on the younger one at an early age. Her breeder felt it was more of a jockeying for pack position. Anyhow, I started separating them to avoid problems. I do keep them in the same room, one crated, when I am home but always make sure there is a door between them when I leave unless I take one with me. 

As they have aged, the younger has proven to be a harder, more dominant bitch and when the older acts up, the younger just gives her stink eye and that tends to put an end to it. There was a couple of oops moments and I simply directed the softer dog while blocking the harder one.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did get stitches, from bitches. 

Then I went to never letting bitches be together at all. 

That was over kill. 

It all depends on temperament. And it isn't bad temperament when you have a GSD bitch that fights with other bitches. If they are close in age and in power, then you are likely to have fights. If you have a beta bitch -- an alpha bitch walks around like she owns the world and every other dog and bitch knows this, and there are no fights at all, generally. Jenna was my alpha bitch. One time when she had a litter of puppies, my crazy bitch, Ninja went after her, and she took her down so fast. I had been moving her and the litter, and had Ninja crated. Ninja broke the crate open, which was probably a surprise for her, and she immediately attacked. Two seconds later, I was in a kennel with Jenna still attached to Ninja's muzzle, but I was working a kennel gate between them and managed to get them apart. 

If you have a beta dog, like Ninja -- they are the wanna-be-alphas, that will fight often, and are always trying to upset things. They are not a natural alpha, but they may be the top dog, often briefly. They wouldn't survive well in the wild as a leader, because you have to be whole to maintain your body condition when you have to run down prey. 

But in the wild, if all the dogs were alphas, there would be a lot more fighting. So alphas are not that prevalent. Everyone things they have an alpha. They don't. If there bitch is fighting, it is probably a beta. It could even be an omega, because for some reason, some dogs will try to eliminate a weak-nerved dog. These dogs are fighting for their lives. 

And bitches CAN kill another bitch. We've all heard the horror stories of folks coming home to find one bitch dead and the other in need of euthanasia and blood everywhere. Thank God it hasn't come to that for me yet. 

Right now, I mostly have dogs in pairs, Cujo is in with Uzzi because her dam has a litter of puppies. Kojak is in with Ramona. Bear is in with her last puppy. Bear will be 10 in March, and Tinuviel is not two yet -- usually a mother/daughter combo can work. Though with Jenna being and alpha and her mother who was 4 years older was not naturally alpha but the top female -- she would let Babsy in with her puppies (out of the next litter), but she wanted to kill Jenna. Babsy might have been a baby-sitter type in the litter. 

I had Babsy in with Hepsi, and one day there was blood, so I separated them. Both bitches were kind of lower on the totem pole. So it surprised me. Also when I came home, there was blood, but neither bitch acted like they wanted to eat each other. I think it was an accident. I had Babsy in with Quinnie, and Kaiah, and that worked fine until I had to put Quinnie down, and then Babsy, but no aggression. Then I put Kaiah with Hepsi and Cujo2, until I had to separate Uzzi from her mother. 

So Kaiah who is 1 is in with Hepsi who is 8, and they play together fine. You don't know at 8 weeks whether your female pup is going to be a beta bitch, a middle of the road bitch, a lower bitch, an omega bitch. 

And, what starts off the fighting. Some dogs it's food, high value treats, toys -- that a biggie, but more often is the resource of the human that sparks fights. So the dogs come running when you come in from work, and you start petting them, and the bitch who is stronger in pack order, is seeing you pet the inferior bitch, often first, and that infuriates her, not against you, because you are like God. She can't be angry at her god. She must be angry at the object which is the other bitch. 

So, yeah, if you get a good behaviorist, who actually knows more than I do about pack order and how to regain harmony in a multi-bitch household and you are willing to go the whole nine yards. Maybe you could manage it. 

Safety first, you need to manage them 100% of the time. You may be able to have them together when you are there, but you have to get real in tune with their body language, and those things that set them off, like you petting the lab. Never, ever leave the house without both dogs crated or kenneled separately. 

What I think you will find is that you will have to up your leadership. That means you walk tall, you ignore them until you are ready to pet, play, train them. You expect obedience and always follow through with any command. You do not let them believe there is a choice. You never fight, never raise your voice. You use your voice to show displeasure and pleasure. You are totally consistent. You do not give a command that you cannot enforce. 

You will need to up the training on both dogs. Having two dogs is not twice the work, it is more like thrice the work. Because you have to train each individually, and then in tandem. And if you are worried about them attacking each other, then put muzzles on them and work them together. 

LOL! one day I was at the vet with a pair of bitches, littermates, and one started to snark on the other, and I whipped two muzzles out of my pockets, and had them on those bitches so fast their heads were spinning and the people behind the counter were roaring with laughter. I don't play. I don't want stitches, and I want them on the dogs even less. 

Exercise, BONUS!!!! You get skinnier, because both dogs need exercise and it should be done singly. If one has more energy than the other, take her on walks where you use her body more than yours, have her run up steps that you don't -- stuff like that, work on obedience during your walks. 

It's basically my personal formula: Management, Leadership, Training, Exercise, and Socialization -- in that order. Only you don't need the socialization, because whoever said it, is right, same-sex aggression is almost always inter-pack aggression and does not translate to bitches outside of the pack. Which makes perfect sense, it is a pack order thing. 

By respecting the natural pack order in the bitches you can reduce incidences between them significantly. Most folks just have a hard time with that. Because they apply human thinking to this. They feel that if they are petting the shepherd they have to pet the lab, the same amount of pets, or pet the lab first half the time. And what happens is WWIII. 

If you have young children, rehome one of the bitches. Same-sex aggression CAN cause injury and emotional injury to children. No child should watch a bitch tear into another bitch, both of which the child loves. Most children will rush in and try to protect one of them from the other. And the one they are protecting are just as likely to bite them because they are fighting for their lives. And it can be misdirected aggression or just accidental, they were trying to bite the other dog and the kid got in the way. No kid should live in a house with bitches that want to kill each other. 

Good luck.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

wolfebergk9 said:


> Do you correct the gsd when she behaves like this? We have 2 females, same age, that normally get along with each other unless one of us humans is playing with them both at the same time. We just play with them separately now, but they can be together at other times. Are you able to leave one inside while you play with the other outside? It seems the gsd is getting jealous over the lab's attention. Do they get along at other times, when you are not playing with them outside?


I try to I tell them no but they rarely listen 
And they kinda get along my gsd still hovers over the lab and bites her neck but I keep thinking that she is playing rough


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Trying to tell them no and them not listening? They trained you instead of the other way around. GSD’s need a firm consistent handler. I’d look into rehoming the GSD if you can’t get either of them to listen to you. 

Neck biting is not rough play, it’s her asserting her dominance over the lab. The more you allow it, the worse the behavior is going to get, and you’re going to come home to a dead dog. 

Are either of them crate trained?


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Jchrest said:


> Trying to tell them no and them not listening? They trained you instead of the other way around. GSD’s need a firm consistent handler. I’d look into rehoming the GSD if you can’t get either of them to listen to you.
> 
> Neck biting is not rough play, it’s her asserting her dominance over the lab. The more you allow it, the worse the behavior is going to get, and you’re going to come home to a dead dog.
> 
> Are either of them crate trained?


Yes the lab is the gsd has broke both of my crates I had her in


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

As the others have said, this isn't good. The fact that they don't have respect for you , and you can't control them with obedience makes it even worse. Personally at this young age, I would find a stable home for one of them, and continue to train and raise the other one. It will only be harder to do this as they get older. Do your research well, if you rehome, if you bought from a breeder contact them first.


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## Nscullin (Sep 29, 2019)

Jchrest said:


> Trying to tell them no and them not listening? They trained you instead of the other way around. GSD’s need a firm consistent handler. I’d look into rehoming the GSD if you can’t get either of them to listen to you.
> 
> Neck biting is not rough play, it’s her asserting her dominance over the lab. The more you allow it, the worse the behavior is going to get, and you’re going to come home to a dead dog.
> 
> Are either of them crate trained?




Ehh...I’m not sure I completely agree. Maybe you say this bc it’s 2 adult dogs that are both female. My puppy and my male dog frequently play fight. The neck is not the target, but occasionally, it does become involved. Any time any whining occurs by my female puppy, my male pit immediately backs off. Of course, he knows better and was formally trained. So idk. Just be careful in jumping into saying that is 100% an aggressive, dominance thing. I do agree in the case of these 2 dogs, but I wouldn’t lump my dogs into that. It’s legitimately rough play in some cases. Duke(my rescue pit) interacts this way with every dog just about. It’s not aggressive shots at the neck but playful cheek biting etc..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

I’m not sure if I can crate/rotate my dogs but it’s gonna kill me to get rid of her I love her so much but I don’t wanna take a chance on one of them hurting each other or worse


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

cdog0809 said:


> I’m not sure if I can crate/rotate my dogs but it’s gonna kill me to get rid of her I love her so much but I don’t wanna take a chance on one of them hurting each other or worse



I'll hurt you much worse if one of them gets seriously hurt or killed than to find a good home.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

ksotto333 said:


> cdog0809 said:
> 
> 
> > I’m not sure if I can crate/rotate my dogs but it’s gonna kill me to get rid of her I love her so much but I don’t wanna take a chance on one of them hurting each other or worse
> ...


Yea I know ty u all for the good advice


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ksotto333 said:


> *I'll *hurt you much worse if one of them gets seriously hurt or killed than to find a good home.


Some days I love autocorrect.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Jax08 said:


> ksotto333 said:
> 
> 
> > *I'll *hurt you much worse if one of them gets seriously hurt or killed than to find a good home.
> ...


Lol I kinda figured


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> Some days I love autocorrect.



nice catch...I promise not to hurt anyone. :wink2:


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Nscullin said:


> Jchrest said:
> 
> 
> > Trying to tell them no and them not listening? They trained you instead of the other way around. GSD’s need a firm consistent handler. I’d look into rehoming the GSD if you can’t get either of them to listen to you.
> ...


I didn’t say this was 100% dominating behavior. I said in this case, the GSD is doing it to dominate the lab. In this case, with dogs that aren’t trained, don’t listen to their owner, can’t be crated, yeah, I’m going with the safer bet that it’s another sign of the OP needs to rehome, and the better bet would be rehoming the GSD to someone who is breed knowledgeable.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I play with mine individually just because they enjoy that special 1 on 1 and my lab will not touch a toy when the shepherds are around. He does not want conflict with them and they both really want all the toys. So it is kind of only fair to him to play alone when he doesn't feel like he is going to get mugged by a wolf.

If one dog is bullying the other, vs 2 dogs actively fighting, it is actually easier to deal with I think. My fenale GSD has lived with 2 female other breeds who were totally submissive and would never fight back. We had a few slip ups which I consider my failure but for many years there was a lot of peace because:

1. I never had the females together in triggering situations and for my GSD that's toys and food

2. I had a very strong position to my female GSD that I would not tolerate her going after the other dogs. They did not have to be friends...I would try to keep them from offending her...but if she felt offended anyway she was NOT to go for blood like she wanted and she understood. It wasn't perfect, but it was totally manageable. No dog lived in fear or had a major quality of life impact and there were only what I consider minor failures on my part...some of which being when I was still learning exactly what would set off the one dog and when/how to prevent it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

cdog0809 said:


> I try to I tell them no but they rarely listen
> And they kinda get along my gsd still hovers over the lab and bites her neck but I keep thinking that she is playing rough


Most of the folks here will be adamantly against two puppies at one time. Any two puppies. So, even a male and a female. If you get one puppy and train it to adulthood 2-3 years, and then let it mature another year, so it is almost perfect, then bring in a puppy of the opposite sex, that is kind of ideal. Not because the older dog is ready to be calm and help to raise the puppy, and not because being well-trained at that point you can put the time into training on the puppy, though those are true, but also because you, the owner has grown in leadership and training and management skills. Then, you just have to tweak those a bit to the personality of the new puppy. 

But you have two very close together, very different types of dog, and that makes a big difference. A bird dog and a sheep-herding dogs are very different. So what you are trying to do, is to develop a management strategy, leadership, and training for two very different dogs at the same time. 

That's incredibly difficult. 

And failure can be mortally dangerous for both dogs. 

Because one of those bitches can kill the other. And in today's climate, people truly believe that is like siblings killing each other. People have no respect for the critter that they have in their own home. Yes, they let them on the sofa and sleep in the bed. That is not respect. Lack of that is not respect. Respect is understanding that we have another species sharing our life, and that species is a dog or a cat, and it has drives and instincts and likes and dislikes and emotion of a beast that does a whole lot better job of living with us than we do with living with them sometimes. And because people see them as a kind of people, if your dog does serious damage or kills your other dog, then chances are the remaining dog will be put down if you can't bear to keep it. And if you do keep it, can you feel the same way about it, can you still love the dog, if you know what it is not only capable of, but has done?


You can prove me wrong if you like and I will be happy for you. You can come back every year with photos of your bitches running and playing with each other. But, I really believe you need to find a good home for one of those bitches. Because you have too much to learn to give them justice and learning all that while raising one dog, is enough. 

Four years from now, you bring in another puppy (male), and you are so much farther ahead, going into it with your eyes wide open.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I will never have two of the same sex in my house again. German Shepherds are known for female-female aggression. Last time, it was our female boxer that was the aggressor towards my female shepherd. It makes for a very tense 10 + years of crate and rotate and management. I would rehome one. It's better for both dogs to be able to live without constantly being on guard and better for you so you can actually enjoy the one you keep.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do it, because I breed, and I can keep them separated if there ever is any indication of that happening. Your typical pet owner is just not signing up for that. 

Why do we get pets? To make our house a home, for companionship, to lower our blood pressure, to enjoy, to entertain us, to exercise with, to accomplish training and competing with. I mean there are so many good reasons. And NONE of them include watching bitches make each other bleed. 

In fact that make for chaos in the home, it means always knowing that someone is back there unhappy so we feel like a failure. When bitches fight our blood pressure soars, it could kill the right person. It is not enjoyable to constantly be on the alert in case one of the triggers, like what bitch walks past another, is going to set them off. It is not entertaining to patch up wounds and give antibiotics, and get stitches out. 

If you have the right bitches they can be great buddies, but there is no knowing at 8 weeks that this is what you have. Your chances of having female-female issues are probably better than half. And when you do, it's devastating.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

cdog0809 said:


> I try to I tell them no but they rarely listen
> And they kinda get along my gsd still hovers over the lab and bites her neck but I keep thinking that she is playing rough


Yeah.
Rehome the GSD, aka the war machine with four paws.

I think you will be much happier with just the Lab, and the GSD will be much happier in a home where she gets training and discipline from someone who knows and understands the breed.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

cdog0809 said:


> I’m not sure if I can crate/rotate my dogs but it’s gonna kill me to get rid of her I love her so much but I don’t wanna take a chance on one of them hurting each other or worse


You might end up with two dead dogs: one killed by the other and the other one fatally wounded. Do not decide which one to keep, based on who you think or was the instigator; they really cannot help themselves as the humans have put them in that situation. Decide which one to keep based on with whom you will have the best life. This will be a painful decision but in the end it will be worth it and everyone will be happier. When you keep them and not train and manage them for the fully 100%, they will find a way to go after each other and you can't blame the dogs.
Make sure that the one you rehome will not go to a home with another female dog. This doesn't have to do with any other form of aggression though.
By the way, OP, I am glad that you respond to our posts as many in that situation/problem, just disappear after the initial post , leaving us 'hanging'. Keep us posted.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> cdog0809 said:
> 
> 
> > I’m not sure if I can crate/rotate my dogs but it’s gonna kill me to get rid of her I love her so much but I don’t wanna take a chance on one of them hurting each other or worse
> ...


I have a little YouTube video I made of the 2 dogs I’ll lost a link 
https://youtu.be/yJg3zdQw1fE


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

cdog0809 said:


> I have a little YouTube video I made of the 2 dogs I’ll lost a link
> https://youtu.be/yJg3zdQw1fE


I definitely would not be throwing one ball for these two. I would not play with them together at all if I were you. When you call the lab and she doesn't want to come it's because the other one is giving her stink eye, I'm not sure it's fair to keep calling her to you when the other one is threatening her.

Is this the only time the two have a problem with each other?


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> cdog0809 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a little YouTube video I made of the 2 dogs I’ll lost a link
> ...


Pretty much yea even if I throw 2-3 balls the gsd is always going after what ever ball the lab goes after and when the lab brings back the ball the gsd kinda stands in her way. 
Me and my wife was out side playing with them together and they seems “ok”
But once my wife goes in and I stay too play they start to try and fight


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

cdog0809 said:


> Pretty much yea even if I throw 2-3 balls the gsd is always going after what ever ball the lab goes after and when the lab brings back the ball the gsd kinda stands in her way.
> Me and my wife was out side playing with them together and they seems “ok”
> But once my wife goes in and I stay too play they start to try and fight


Did you get them together as puppies or desperately once one was older? I'm thinking it might not be just female/female aggression but could also have littermate syndrome components.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Kazel said:


> cdog0809 said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty much yea even if I throw 2-3 balls the gsd is always going after what ever ball the lab goes after and when the lab brings back the ball the gsd kinda stands in her way.
> ...


I got them 1 month apart from separate breeders 
They stayed around each other for a month I had to let my relatives keep the gsd because my landlord said she was too vicious of a breed so they was separated for about 6 months then I moved and they was reunited about 1 month ago


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

cdog0809 said:


> I got them 1 month apart from separate breeders
> They stayed around each other for a month I had to let my relatives keep the gsd because my landlord said she was too vicious of a breed so they was separated for about 6 months then I moved and they was reunited about 1 month ago


3 red flags: two pups same age (doesn't need to be from the same litter), same gender and a separation on top of it. Don't risk their lives or health.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

cdog0809 said:


> I have a little YouTube video I made of the 2 dogs I’ll lost a link
> https://youtu.be/yJg3zdQw1fE


I see two young, untrained, undisciplined dogs who are petted and told “ I love you so much” when they are not obeying commands and are not listening.
You are treating them like children, not only that, but like human children who are left to themselves with no rules and no direction.

This is a disaster waiting to happen.

Do yourself and them a favor and research how to train young dogs. The sooner, the better.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

It is hard to assess from one moment in time but I am seeing a Lab focused on a ball / you throwing it and a GSD that wants to play with the Lab. I would be real curious to see a video of them interacting just before an incident. I would not be surprised to see the GSD push hard to play and the Lab to react in annoyance with the behavior. I have seen that interaction play out between GSDs and Labs a few times. Labs can be pretty ball obsessed and resent the play attempts. Toys / food are a common catalyst of discord among dogs in general. 

I would change the way you play with your dogs. I would either separate at playtime or I would alternate having one dog in a Down while you play with the other and then switch dogs. Rinse and repeat. 

Are these dogs spayed?


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Sunflowers said:


> cdog0809 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a little YouTube video I made of the 2 dogs I’ll lost a link
> ...


Ok I’ll look into that I tried training them b4 but together maybe I’ll try to separate them and train them but ty


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm not an expert with behavioral situations. I see a few things that could be happening in that video:

1: Neither dog is actually listening to you. You giving commands and they don't care it's just noise to them. No consequence to not following a command. I get it you want it to be fun for them but as your are finding out that isn't working very well.

2: You don't seem to be fair in your play with both dogs together. You throw the ball for the lab. You ask the lab to retrieve. You repeat. The GSD gets a you're so pretty I love you. The GSD wants to play, too. GSD tries to interact and I hear NO. (short clip so this may not be a fair assessment of overall playtime I will admit)

3. GSD may be being pushy or not. Might just be frustration over wanting the ball too and interaction with either the lab or you with the ball. I see excitement and energy and dogs unsure what to do with it.

4: There could be some resource guarding starting. What happens when the GSD has the ball and the lab doesn't. Does your GSD get snappy with the lab? Does the lab get pushy/snappy and try to take the ball?

5:Either way I see some frustration with both dogs. 

Train and play separately. Only allow toys in play when they aren't together. No free access to toys. Put them away when you aren't playing with them.

With supervision how do they interact when no toys or food are around in the yard? 
Some of this could be early resource guarding rather than same sex aggression or another contributing factor along with female/female aggression.

Over the internet it's hard to get a good picture of what is going on between them. Do you have a trainer? I'd get one to help see what it is that isn't going correctly and what you can do to alleviate some of these issues if possible.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> bitches=stitches
> 
> Two males can squabble and then be best friends, two females will most often continue to escalate.


Just like humans!


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

cdog0809 said:


> I have a little YouTube video I made of the 2 dogs I’ll lost a link
> https://youtu.be/yJg3zdQw1fE


Oh boy, that poor sweet lab isn't going to stand a chance. What I see is the GSD being the aggressor and the lab scared sh!it of the GSD. Without knowing the dogs, but hearing you and seeing your interaction, I think the lab might be the lower maintenance family sweet dog you may be looking for. GSD's are a lot of work.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Based on that video alone, I see nothing other then a lack of training, a lack of management and two young dogs. A bit of avoidance from the lab but nothing abnormal considering the differences.

GSD's tend to have a noisy, pushy, in your face style of play. They like to wrestle, bite, chase and are very vocal. 
Labs like to fetch and dig.
The GSD tries several times to get your attention and you brush it off. Neither dog listens, but you don't really take control. 
Toys at this stage will cause fights. So I would suggest separate play and training. Crate train both, feed in crates and allow no uncontrolled interaction.
Get a trainer. You lack the skills to manage these dogs, and I don't mean that in a mean way. It seems you enjoy the dogs and are fond of both but have not the knowledge to make this end well. The great thing about knowledge is we can always get more. Find a trainer that knows GSD's because she will be the challenge, not the lab.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> Based on that video alone, I see nothing other then a lack of training, a lack of management and two young dogs. A bit of avoidance from the lab but nothing abnormal considering the differences.
> 
> GSD's tend to have a noisy, pushy, in your face style of play. They like to wrestle, bite, chase and are very vocal.
> Labs like to fetch and dig.
> ...


I hope you are right about the training, you are right about everything else in that video which highlights a lack of owner understanding and fair play. That said, I see a GSD that hates that lab's existence and would be happier if she wasn't there.

Edit: and even if she hates the lab and they can co-exist, that's no fun for the owners. I think their naive intent was to have two puppys the same age play together and love each other, but they didn't know that two bitches are individual bitches to each other. Who likes to be around females fighting with each other?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I did not read the whole thread and my opinion is based on the video and a few last threads. I saw the one video posted. Regards to the video. Hazel the lab looks to you for a few times for guidance as if to say do you know what’s going on here are you going to help me. The shepherd is giving her the stink eye and matching your energy and hazel is being reluctant to come over because she does not see the leadership here. There is no structure here. The energy towards hazel is not the greatest and she feels it. Such a sweet dog. Who would want to come over to that. I would not play ball at all with them together and play with each separately. No toys bones in the house either left out. If you truly want to have the two dogs get along you need set boundaries to practice this. 

Now I have a male and a female. They really like each other. If I were to go throw the ball max would always get it - does nothing for Luna’s her ego and Luna would always chase him and try to steam roll him. She has I think it’s her purpose and she does like him. Max focus is entirely in the ball which pisses her off more. Throwing two balls will keep her mouth to herself with the ball in it. Luna likes to play tug and does not even like balls. If I am going to play /train with them with outside it would most of the time be separate where they feel they don’t have to compete with each other. If I do have a ball out in the house. Max will sometimes for some reason drop the ball near her - Luna takes it and does not give it back and max will come over to me get my attention and he knows I will get it back. I know what is going on and I don’t recommend leaving any toys out.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I watched the video and was surprised that there wasn't a fight when you threw just one ball. Nice dogs. They both look and behave equally confident, which can be an issue.I didn't see anything worriesome in this video of 2 minutes unless I missed another one. I thought the GSD was looking for your opinion so that was really nice. I would clean up the yard and get organized; one dog at a time and NO resources (food, toys, play with you) with the two together. Good obedience and exercise and play for both. I think most has been said already.
BTW: what you consider 'fighting'?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I don't like the shepherd's attitude toward the lab. Sometimes seems like she is stalking her.

OP, did they actually fight? 

Any blood drawn?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't like the shepherd's attitude toward the lab. Sometimes seems like she is stalking her.


I thought the GSD was more observing while engaged. Deja looks at me like that in anticipation and we are not fighting :grin2:. The GSD moved her head away when the Lab returned the ball. I like both dogs in this video. It actually looked like that they tried to avoid conflict, which means that it could be brewing though.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Seems to me like the GSD is entertaining herself by controling the other dog.

You can go here, you can't move now, etc, then wants to be fun police and punish her for bringing in the ball.

I'm not sure how much GSD wants the ball? When the lab drops it she doesn't go for it. She seems more focused on the dog than the ball.

The way the original post read it sounded like the dogs had really fought, which makes this controlling behavior more concerning to me


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Seems to me like the GSD is entertaining herself by controling the other dog.
> 
> You can go here, you can't move now, etc, then wants to be fun police and punish her for bringing in the ball.
> 
> ...




I took the comments on them fighting in conjunction with the GSDs obsession with the lab. I could be wrong but given the context I can see her attacking the lab.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't like the shepherd's attitude toward the lab. Sometimes seems like she is stalking her.
> 
> OP, did they actually fight?
> 
> Any blood drawn?


Yes they fought I pulled them apart twice and they went back at it and thankfully no blood was drawn


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Seems to me like the GSD is entertaining herself by controling the other dog.
> 
> You can go here, you can't move now, etc, then wants to be fun police and punish her for bringing in the ball.
> 
> ...


They really did fight but not in the video I broke them up twice and they kept going back for more thankfully no blood was drawn


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Does the lab ever initiate the fight or is she forced to defend herself?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

So the video didn't show the real thing. If they truly fought , yes than you need to choose: re-home one or separate life long. In your case, I would keep the Lab (less complicated generally) and re-home the GSD to someone who knows the breed well (not someone who had them in their back yard for ten years).


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> Does the lab ever initiate the fight or is she forced to defend herself?


Not really


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Frisco19 said:


> Does the lab ever initiate the fight or is she forced to defend herself?


Early on he said only the GSD instigates it.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I don’t like the shepherds attitude either and the lab has no one to back him up. I think a fight could of been avoided. It was building and the lab new it. Watch the lab she is smart and a sweet dog. It sad she had to be put in that spot.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Jenny720 said:


> I don’t like the shepherds attitude either and the lab has no one to back him up. I think a fight could of been avoided. It was building and the lab new it. Watch the lab she is smart and a sweet dog. It sad she had to be put in that spot.




That’s exactly what I see to. Poor pup is gonna get bullied. She just looks like she wants to say leave me alone and let me be happy.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Frisco19 said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t like the shepherds attitude either and the lab has no one to back him up. I think a fight could of been avoided. It was building and the lab new it. Watch the lab she is smart and a sweet dog. It sad she had to be put in that spot.
> ...


Exactly 
@Frisco19 yes


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I didn’t see any aggression in the video. The GSD has nothing to do. My dogs both push the other one out of the way for attention. I see this more as an owner problem than a dog problem. I never play with my two dogs together. One chases the toy, the other herds the other dog, which involves growling and barking, but it’s not serious. If they fight over toys, which mine sometimes do indoors, remove the toys. I was at the ER talking to a man with two dogs that nearly killed each other over one toy. They were not GSDS but they had gotten along perfectly for two years before that. 

Get a good trainer to come to your house and watch you interact with the dogs. In the video, the Lab is getting all the positive attention, the German Shepherd is not. I think you may be able to avoid all fighting by separating them during play time. If you won’t or can’t do that, call the breeder and return the GSD, then get a male puppy and work with a trainer with the Lab and the puppy. Or just keep the Lab for now. I’m not saying that because the Lab is easier but because in the video the owner is much more connected to the Lab.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I just want to add that every time I have seen similar incidents, when the GSD wanted to play with a ball obsessed Lab, it was always the Lab that instigated the fight. The reason I am mentioning this is that if OP rehomes the GSD, I would still be skeptical of adding another dog in the future, even one of opposite sex. So if the OP would like to own multiple dogs, rehoming the Lab may be the better choice and adding a male dog in the future with the GSD may be the way to go.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I don’t see that lab as ball obsessed. I do also suggest a trainer though to help establish rules, boundaries and structure And remove the need for competition by removing toys and not play fetch with two dogs it can make a world of difference.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

cdog0809 said:


> hello all
> 
> i have 2 female dogs 1 is my gsd and the other is a lab they are my gsd is 11 months and my lab is 12 months i love them both and i try to play with them both they have plenty of room out side to play so i go out with them and play.
> 
> ...




The video is the video, and this is how the thread started with an ASAP, a really bad attack and the lab not allowed to get attention. Two females don’t mix more times than not. I’m not getting the warm and fuzzies that the OP wants to put enough effort into it (i.e. hire a trainer) and I don’t blame him because I don’t think this is what he signed up for. Rehome the GSD and enjoy the lab.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I just want to add that every time I have seen similar incidents, when the GSD wanted to play with a ball obsessed Lab, it was always the Lab that instigated the fight. The reason I am mentioning this is that if OP rehomes the GSD, I would still be skeptical of adding another dog in the future, even one of opposite sex. So if the OP would like to own multiple dogs, rehoming the Lab may be the better choice and adding a male dog in the future with the GSD may be the way to go.


That could be the case. It’s hard to tell from the video, but a ball obsessed dog could become resource aggressive over the ball. A good trainer can watch in real time and figure it out.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Sounds like the gsd is rescouce guarding the owner by the post and the way the lab did not want to come over to the owner in the video. It looks like it happened way to many times. The lab dropped the ball every time there was any pressure. Looks to me she was not looking for a fight. I would crate and rotate until you get a trainer and I recommend a gsd trainer. The trainer can also have connections if you have to rehome.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

So here is my final update I found another home for my gad I cried I hated doing that but I will get to see her when I want which may be bad or good but thank u all for ur suggestions and information


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

cdog0809 said:


> So here is my final update I found another home for my gad I cried I hated doing that but I will get to see her when I want which may be bad or good but thank u all for ur suggestions and information


So sorry you had to do that but sometimes you have to prioritize what is best for the dog(s).


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm sorry, but it's good you can still see her.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Good for you OP. I know these decisions break your heart and I applaud you for choosing peace and harmony.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

ksotto333 said:


> I'm sorry, but it's good you can still see her.


Yes that’s the best part


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> Good for you OP. I know these decisions break your heart and I applaud you for choosing peace and harmony.


Yes I wanted her to be happy and the only way is for her to have a better environment to stay in


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm glad you found a good home for your GSD. Nice that you have the ability to see her if you want. You can watch them both grow into their own and be the best dogs they can be without the stress and pressure they put on each other. I'm sure it was very hard for you but it was best thing to do for all. 
Enjoy your lab and know you are still welcome to hang out here.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Thank u and yes I’ll still be on this forum I love gsd very intelligent and beautiful dogs


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

cdog0809 said:


> So here is my final update I found another home for my gad I cried I hated doing that but I will get to see her when I want which may be bad or good but thank u all for ur suggestions and information


I'm sorry, but you are doing the right thing. Dogs are only with us for a short period of time relatively speaking, they will both be happier without each other. Forgive my ignorance, but what's a gad? Which one did you re-home?


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

Frisco19 said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but what's a gad? Which one did you re-home?


Probably hit the A instead of the S.

GSD.


Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Gwyllgi said:


> Probably hit the A instead of the S.
> 
> GSD.
> 
> ...


Ah, doh! Thanks.


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## cdog0809 (Apr 26, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> Gwyllgi said:
> 
> 
> > Probably hit the A instead of the S.
> ...



Lmbo sorry gsd 
(Love that autocorrect lol)


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