# Strange liquid coming from Zara since switching to RAW



## NatashaFinch1987 (Oct 3, 2013)

My dog Zara has had a lot of issues recently. She's lost 22 lbs in 8 weeks, she's presently 68 lbs. She's had diarrhea with fat in it this whole time. She's been on enzymes, tylosin, prednisone, baytril, none of those helped with weight gain or the diarrhea. She's been switched on the hypoallergenic food, another gastrointestinal food and nothing. I've since put her on probiotics and switched her to a brand called Tollden Farms that makes RAW food for the dogs. I began feeding her this on Tuesday, and on Wednesday night, she began having a liquid oily yellow discharge from her bum. She doesn't seem to be in pain. I took her to my vet, he's decided to take her off all drugs minus the RAW and probiotics and send her stool off for a stool culture. Has anybody ever had anything similar to this happen?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

No, never(discharge) from raw feeding and I would not keep changing things around but try to be consistent with her diet. This is all in an 8 week span? Vet hasn't done labs on her?

Because her immune system is obviously compromised, I don't know if raw is what I'd feed at this time. I think I'd do a homecooked diet with a consult from Monica Segal. [email protected] may be of help for some insight, but I'd still get some lab tests run on your girl.
What was/is the reason for the meds? and how old is she?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Has she been tested for EPI? 

Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency (EPI) | German Shepherd Rescue Scotland


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The bloodwork for EPI, needs to be done when the dog has fasted for 12 hours. Has this been done?

If she has EPI she will continue to lose weight and condition unless everything she eats is treated with the enzymes. 

That would be my first guess.


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## NatashaFinch1987 (Oct 3, 2013)

She's two years old in November. She's actually starting to act a bit lethargic. Very sucky, not as playful. She's been on so many things due to weight loss and diarrhea. We originally thought it was her pancreas, but then we had no improvement with the enzymes. My vet then thought it was inflammatory bowel disease, but the prednisone did nothing. I switched her to RAW, the rumbling of her stomach stopped, her poops because smaller and firmer. But last night the oily film began. She's had blood work which showed elevated liver enzymes, that's it. I am considering putting her back on the vet's suggestion but then the diarrhea will begin again. She began the Raw diet on Wednesday night. Last Sunday she was at 72 lbs and this morning she was at 68 lbs. Shes losing on average 1 lb a day. And it's clear my vet isn't sure why. 


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## NatashaFinch1987 (Oct 3, 2013)

I'm going to call my vet and confirm if she's been tested. However, I'm wondering if she had EPI wouldn't the enzymes have worked she was on for almost a month? She gained no weight while on them and she had diarrhea while having enzymes included in all meals. 


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What kind of enzymes was she on? I have no personal experience with EPI, but an EPI dog needs specific enzymes to replace those that her body cannot produce. Enzymes sold as a general nutritional supplement probably won't help that much.


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## NatashaFinch1987 (Oct 3, 2013)

She tried two. She had Cotazym which had no positive impact, and the Good Shepherd Can-Addase. She gained weight on neither and had constant diarrhea with both. 


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Slippery elm bark given 1/2 hour before meal time will help coat the digestive tract and soothe it so it can heal. I would try this, if it were my dog. I know raw is best, but with the system already stressed, it is a gamble. Green tripe would also be my go to...have you tried feeding fresh(frozen)tripe(it contains natural digestive enzymes)
A Place for Paws - Columbiana, Ohio - Tripe - The Other White Meat


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not familiar with either. But I don't know much. Was all her food treated with them? I mean, the enzymes put on the food and then warm water added, and wait 20 minutes before feeding? No extras -- everything treated with the enzymes.

Where are you located. I do not like the lethargy. Could this be circovirus. It is cropping up in Cincinnatti Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio, and Michigan, maybe PA. I have heard of something similar in CA. 

My girl will be 2 in November too. She was diagnosed with EPI in July. She was down to 52 pounds. I hope it is not that. Good luck. I hope you figure this out soon.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

NatashaFinch1987 said:


> She tried two. She had Cotazym which had no positive impact, and the Good Shepherd Can-Addase. She gained weight on neither and had constant diarrhea with both.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


If she has EPI, she needs specific PRESCRIPTION enzymes from the vet. The article I linked explains it in more detail. If she has EPI and it is not treated, she could die, so you have to make sure. 

I'd go back and insist that she be tested.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

You are the first person I have run across in the past 10 years that had a dog that had the very same thing my dog had.....Yellow, bile like substance oozing from her rectum while she slept, and fat in her stool! Hopefully yours won't get blood like mine did.
Severe Pancreatis or EPI is what I too am guessing your baby has. 
Selzer is right "The bloodwork for EPI, needs to be done when the dog has fasted for 12 hours." Have this done if it hasn't been already.
I would call Tollden Farms and ask what percentage the fat content is in their mixes (doesn't say on the site). If it is above 5-7% fat, it's too much for your dog right now. 
Is she ok with oats? Periodically, after I switched to raw with my dog, I would need to add a small amount SoJo's (https://www.sojos.com/products/dog-food/sojos-original-dog-food-mix ) to the lean raw meat (which I purchased from my butcher) until she got over her "episode", then made my own mix of lean meat and vegetables.

A dog with this kind of problem needs a little different type of Digestive Enzyme that is animal based because he/she is an animal not a human. This is a good one containing Ox Bile, Pancrease tissues, betaine HCL AND the amylase, protease, and lipase: *DIGESTIVE ENZYMES by Mercola: *One scoop: Betaine HCI 25mg (protein digestion), Pancreatin 4X 25 mg (this is pancreas tissue), Ox Bile (bile for added digestion) 25 mg, Bromelain (Pineapple) 25 mg (proteolytic enzymes-), Papain (Papya) 25 mg (proteolytic enzymes), Protease 2,500 USP Units, Amylase 2,500 USP Units, Lipase 500 USP Units. 
*Healthy Pets Digestive Enzymes*:
· *Betaine HCl* - breaks down proteins into peptides and amino acids and fats into triglycerides 
· *Ox Bile Extract* – safely used for many years in human and pet enzyme products to support the liver's production of bile and offer supplemental bile for bile-deficient pets, critical for digesting fats
· *Bromelain (pineapple)* – one of the safest and most powerful enzymes to help break down and digest protein
· *Papain (papaya)* – a natural plant-sourced enzyme that works together with bromelain to digest protein
· *Pancreatin* – an animal-based pancreatic enzyme providing all three of these enzymes: 
o *Protease* – helps break down proteins into amino acids for digestion
o *Amylase* – for splitting and breaking down long-chain carbohydrates, including starch and glycogen (the energy-storage molecule in animal tissue) for digestion in the small intestine
o *Lipase* – helps break down and digest fats

These are the ingredients in the Digestive Enzyme you used: _*Pancrelipase (Cotazym)* is a combination of three enzymes (proteins): lipase, protease, and amylase. These enzymes are normally produced by the pancreas and are important in the digestion of fats, proteins, and sugars. *Pancrelipase* is used to replace these enzymes when the body does not have enough of its own...._

You should also try a pro-biotic.
"Human probiotic strains have been formulated to repopulate human GI flora. Giving human probiotics which are lactobacillus/bifidus/acidopjilus, can provide some benefit but providing additional *species-appropriate bacterial strains such as E. faecalis, is more beneficial."* 
*FOR PET'S PROBIOTIC by Mercola: *58 billion bacteria in every serving: (15 strains) BIFIDOBACTERIUM LACTIS - 5*LACTOBACILLUS ACIDOPHILUS - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM LONGUM - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM BIFIDUM - 5*LACTOBACILLUS CASEI - 5*LACTOBACILLUS PLANTARUM - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM BREVE - 5*STREPTOCOCCUS THERMOPHILUS - 5*SACCROMYCES BOULARDI - 5*BIFIDOBACTERIUM ANIMALIS - 5**E.FAECIUM* - 5*LACTOBACILLUS RHAMNOSUS - 1*LACTOBACILUS BULGARICUS - 1**LACTOSPORE LACTOBACILLUS SPOROGENES *- 1**BILLION VIABLE ORGANISMS.MICROCRYSTALLINE CELLULOSE, SILICA 
*Digestive Enzymes Healthy Pets Digestive Enzymes for Optimal Digestion - Mercola.com 
*For Pets Probiotic Pet Probiotics | Optimal Digestive Health for Pets - Mercola.com 

These are the Homeopathic's I used which is given 30 minutes before meals: 
*Company Name: Prof. Compl. Health Formulas* *PANCREAS STOMACH DROPS: Given 20-30 minutes before meals*
*Provides specific sarcode support for the pancreas and stomach.*
*Ingredients: Plantago lanceolata 3X, Gentiana lutea 5X, Zingiber officinal 5X, Pancreas 5x, 6X, 12X, 30X, 60X, 100X, Stomach 5X, 6X, 12X, 30X, 60X, 100X, purified water, 20% Alcohol*
*2 Oz. about $17 *Amazon.com: Pancreas Stomach Drops 2oz by Professional Formulas: Health & Personal Care 

*Company Name: Prof. Compl. Health Formulas* *DIGESTIVE ENZYME DROPS: Given 20-30 minutes before meals*
Vagus nerve 6X, Gallbladder 6X, 12X, 30X, Large intestine 6X, 12X, 30X, Liver 6X, 12X, 30X, Pancreas 6X, 12X, 30X, Parotid 6X, 12X, 30X, Small intestine 6X, 12X, 30X, Stomach 6X, 12X, 30X, Secretin 12X, 30X, purified water, 20% USP alcohol
2 Oz. $14 Digestive Enzyme Drops 2 oz (60 ml) by Professional Formulas 

*
*
I also used this herbal to calm down and sooth her stomach.

*Company Name: Integrative Therapeutics** RF FORMULA: Given with or in-between meals as needed.*
Bromelain(2,400 G.D.U.g)...200 mg
Cabbage(Brassica oleracea var. capitata) Leaf...200 mg
Marshmallow(Althaea officinalis) Root...200 mg
Slippery Elm(Ulmus rubra) Bark...200 mg
NAG(N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine) (shrimp shells)...70 mg
Cranesbill(Geranium maculatum) Root Extract 4:1...50 mg
Echinacea Proprietary Extract Blend...
Goldenseal(Hydrastis canadensis) Root...50 mg
60 = $19 http://www.pureformulas.com/rf-plus-60-ultracaps-by-integrative-therapeutics.html#sthash.qqJqGYnq.dpuf 

The western medicine vet said my dog would die before she reached 3 years old, and gave up on her.........I changed (and had to learn/research) EVERYTHING and she lived until her 12th birthday with all holistic modalities!

Hope this helps!
Moms


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Go to the EPI4dogs site, many suggest enzyme Dianne (or something like that) for the type enzymes you should be seeking...elevated liver values could mean the body is under repair too and going through a detox - sometimes symptoms worsen before getting better...google "herxing"

Milk thistle and Dandelion root for the liver, Bovine colostrum/seacure combo for the malnutrition and GI tract tissue repair as well assist the immune system (the product is called Seavive - from Proper nutrition - online order only I believe)...keep up with the probiotics will help in time, and add a B12 (methylcobalamin version NOT cyano) with folate supplement too, likely come in 1000mcg. with folate at less then half of that - 1 per day. Keep up the RAW


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

Could it be giardia? The fecal should have shown something though.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Before assuming anything, try to analyze what she eats and what she drinks from a point of view of an "organic eater". Dog's stomach is not designed to eat beef or lamb too often. European wolf is a closest relative, in the wild they eat hares, rabbits, water rats and birds. Something like deer or bison is a rare prey. Different types of meat have different proteins, a dog who spends a lot of energy should eat some beef, but only if he is capable of digesting beef protein, which is heavy. Your dog might show similar reaction to lamb as well, its fat is not as heavy as that of the beef, but, still, she can go wet. I don't think she is sick ( she would be dead by now if she was), if she is in a good mood, she simply cannot digest what you feed her. Raw organic chicken, including bones, chicken liver, kidneys and heart (with rice) - is your answer. Dogs need to have chewed bone mass in their stomach daily, start to give her 1lb of beef bones every third day. But don't feed bones too many, if you see very dry pellets coming out of her, too many bones could do the blockage in her guts. Feed her raw fish ( with care about fish bones) - fish is easy to digest as well. What sort of water do you let her to drink? Many harmful substances present in the tap water could cause bad stomach reaction.
In order to sterilyze her system a little, put one table spoon of red wine in her throat with syringe, followed by 3-4 cloves of garlic - it is a proven method, and I use it myself if I think my dog might have gut bacteria.


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