# Adopting within the year, have questions



## Dogmeat (Nov 22, 2017)

Context:
I'm interested in a working line dog with the usual temperament as a companion and a basic trained protective dog for my house. At the same time, I want one that has the least angular back there is. I've seen and looked at many "old fashioned" or "straight back" german shepherd breeders but it seems to me that most would be better suited as just a companion. I've only found about three breeders that claim their litters are perfect for the family in addition to protection. Now I know that back angulation to an extent does not cause hip dysplasia but I hate the look of frog legs and I've heard they use more energy/force more weight unto the hips because of the trait. I also know that straight backs are against breed standards. But I'm really leaning towards an old fashioned gsd.

Reading through old threads, I can see that, as expected, there are much more of those against or not particularly in favor of an old fashioned straight back shepherd being as they are oversized and what not. So one of my questions are, has anyone here adopted a "straight back" or "old fashioned" GSD and trained it for protection in conjunction with having it as a family companion?

Thanks all


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## Kibs (Oct 25, 2017)

I think you would be fine with a working line dog (most breeders will work with you to match you with a pup of the right temperament), assuming you can provide the exercise and mental stimulation. Most of them have little angulation, and if they have it it really is only noticeable if they are properly stacked. When you look at professional photographs of most dogs they ARE stacked which makes of of them look more angulated than they actually are. 

I'm also not sure what you mean with "old-fashioned" GSD? Like, West German Showline maybe? 
I think there was a pretty big thread the last few days about how well Showlines actually do in IPO.. ah yeah right here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-working-line-show-line-differences-ipo.html

Not sure how well that carries over into personal protection though - someone else would need to answer that.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Are you adopting? Or are you buying from a breeder?


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## Dogmeat (Nov 22, 2017)

Kibs said:


> I think you would be fine with a working line dog (most breeders will work with you to match you with a pup of the right temperament), assuming you can provide the exercise and mental stimulation. Most of them have little angulation, and if they have it it really is only noticeable if they are properly stacked. When you look at professional photographs of most dogs they ARE stacked which makes of of them look more angulated than they actually are.
> 
> I'm also not sure what you mean with "old-fashioned" GSD? Like, West German Showline maybe?
> I think there was a pretty big thread the last few days about how well Showlines actually do in IPO.. ah yeah right here:
> ...


Thanks for this information. I actually didn't know anything about dogs and them being stacked. Every non old fashioned breeder I've looked at had their dogs stacked in their stud/dad and mom photos which lead me to believe they all bear some angulation.

Old fashioned is a term coined by a modicum of breeders, often as a gimmick if they are oversized, to attract buyers who want to buy german shepherds with a flat back or as close to the ones way back in the war. They are not true old fashion german shepherds because they are often oversized, aside from different reasons. I'm fairly quick to change my mind now that I know about stacking, though an oversized german shepherd sure sounds fun.



Jax08 said:


> Are you adopting? Or are you buying from a breeder?


Are they not the same? For where I am based, you still pay to adopt from a shelter.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Kibs said:


> I'm also not sure what you mean with "old-fashioned" GSD? Like, West German Showline maybe?


Kibs, if you search 'Old-fashioned, straight backed GSD"' what comes up are kennels like this, where the dogs are oversized and definitely NOT what more experienced GSD people recognize as being old-fashioned. I can state with some degree of confidence that these dogs wouldn't be suitable for protection work, either. The would make good home companions, and the large size would likely intimidate intruders.

Breeder of Large longcoat German Shepherd Dogs


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

To quote from an earlier thread on this board:



> Unfortunately, the term "Old Fashioned" has been co-opted by some breeders as a euphemistic (and inaccurate) description for GSDs that are oversize, overweight, soft in temperament, often poor in conformation, and often of washed-out in pigment. For some reason I see a lot of longhaired dogs in this type of breeding as well. These dogs do not seem to participate in sport or work, although some of them make fine family dogs, therapy dogs, and companions for the average dog owner.
> 
> For me, the terms "Old-Fashioned" and "Straight-backed" when used as part of a breeder's marketing ploy, is a red flag. It suggests that the breeder does not understand GSD history very well; never in the history of the GSD was a 100+ lb. dog that can't work desired or bred for by the SV. Dogs had to pass a herding or SchH trial in order to be bred. I don't see a lot of "Old-Fashioned" type dogs doing that type of work.
> 
> Only in America do people believe that bigger is better.


http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/187555-whats-old-fashion-german-shepherd-3.html#post2543894


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## Kibs (Oct 25, 2017)

Sunsilver said:


> Kibs, if you search 'Old-fashioned, straight backed GSD"' what comes up are kennels like this, where the dogs are oversized and definitely NOT what more experienced GSD people recognize as being old-fashioned. I can state with some degree of confidence that these dogs wouldn't be suitable for protection work, either. The would make good home companions, and the large size would likely intimidate intruders.
> 
> Breeder of Large longcoat German Shepherd Dogs


Oh my lol. Thanks a lot for showing me this. I guess I completely misunderstood what he meant.


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