# Leon and Lady walk to the mountain



## Leon big boy

Today I taked Leon and Lady for a 3h walk to the mountain near home. Its 1600m high, so they can see the clouds at their feets! I hope you enjoy some pics.


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## Leon big boy

There they can badly see the "Christ the Redeemer" in Rio, at 90 km with my 50x zoom.


The walks ends at the wadding pool to refresh them.


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## Sabis mom

Beautiful! 
Interesting though that Lady looks very thin. Does Leon steal her food? Or is she just careful about her girlish figure?


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## Leon big boy

Sabis mom said:


> Beautiful!
> Interesting though that Lady looks very thin. Does Leon steal her food? Or is she just careful about her girlish figure?



I give their food separated and almost the same quantity, but Lady is more much atlethic and active, so I think she spends much mor energy playing, running and jumping as she loves play and jump for and provoque Leon on kidding.


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## wolfy dog

It's a good looking pair. Is anyone of them neutered or spayed? If not, she can go into heat anytime now.


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## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> It's a good looking pair. Is anyone of them neutered or spayed? If not, she can go into heat anytime now.


No, none of they are neutered yet, but Lady had go to heat last September, so I think she can go into heat just in February or March. Im monitoring her to see his behavior, if she bleeds, etc. If she heats I can keep her at the Kennel some days to prevent breeding.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Very nice pictures and what a beautiful place to be able to walk with them.


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## WIBackpacker

Gorgeous scenery - beautiful.


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## GandalfTheShepherd

Beautiful!!!! Looks like they sure are enjoying themselves!


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## Leon big boy

South American green racer snake


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## wolfy dog

Leon big boy said:


> No, none of they are neutered yet, but Lady had go to heat last September, so I think she can go into heat just in February or March. Im monitoring her to see his behavior, if she bleeds, etc. If she heats I can keep her at the Kennel some days to prevent breeding.


Good idea. How old were they when she was in her first heat?


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## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> Good idea. How old were they when she was in her first heat?


10 months.


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## CometDog

Awesome pictures, gorgeous pair of pups! Leon's tongue is h-u-g-e lol Nice workout too


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## CometDog

Oh and what kind of snake?


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## Leon big boy

CometDog said:


> Awesome pictures, gorgeous pair of pups! Leon's tongue is h-u-g-e lol Nice workout too


Its really big. He is long Coat so warm Very easy and need to rest and breath with his Long Tong to cool his body.


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## wolfy dog

Now Leon is more mature he may be more insisted at the next heat. I like Lady's look.


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## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> Now Leon is more mature he may be more insisted at the next heat. I like Lady's look.


If he start claiming too much i take Lady to the Kennel ar my fathers house who is near.


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## Leon big boy

WIBackpacker said:


> Gorgeous scenery - beautiful.


I Will take them in a sunny day and then you Will see that is really a espetacular view.

This is Just a preview. I LL get for them with more quality.


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## Leon big boy

Today me and my wife get the dogs to a New walk into the mountain. Leon is getting Lean :grin2:


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## Leon big boy

Leon is getting big when he stands because my wife hás 1,70m or 5 feets and 7 in.


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## GandalfTheShepherd

Leon big boy said:


> Today me and my wife get the dogs to a New walk into the mountain. Leon is getting Lean :grin2:


He is looking GREAT!!!! Bet they had a blast hiking that, looks like an adventure! Lady is stunning :rose:!


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## Leon big boy

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> He is looking GREAT!!!! Bet they had a blast hiking that, looks like an adventure! Lady is stunning :rose:!


Its a good adventure as they clim about 4 km to the top. Takes about 2h to get there.

I take this pics today. Lady is really getting an beatiful girl!


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## Muskeg

Thanks for posting- I really like Lady, she's just a beautiful dog! She has great expression, too.


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## Leon big boy

Muskeg said:


> Thanks for posting- I really like Lady, she's just a beautiful dog! She has great expression, too.


The only thing Lady dont have is a big size (she is an average female but besides Leon seems little).

She is extremely intelligent, extraordinary audition, extremely fast and jumps with incredible ease. Balance looks like a cat. I threw her into the pool on her back several times and she turned quickly like a cat to fall to her feet. Very attentive and do not trust strangers in any way. With me and my children is loveley. very affectionate and loves to play and communicates a lot by gestures and expressions, easy to understand what she wants. I really like our lady. A fantastic dog and a great companion for Leon.


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## andywhite

Nice pics. And nature looks really exotic. Is that even USA?


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## Leon big boy

andywhite said:


> Nice pics. And nature looks really exotic. Is that even USA?



No, that is in Petrópolis city, 70 km near from Rio, Brazil. Its a mountain region that surround Rio. I live near the top of the mountain, 920m high and the top where i take them is at 1600m high.

Calls Morin Towers because the TV and Rádio Towers att the top.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Wow beautiful scenery and warm sunny weather. Leo looks fantastic and so does Lady. Love the picture of hiom looking out at view with your wife. Thanks its nice to see the sun even if its just in pictures.


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## wolfy dog

That's an amazing area. Any predators you need to be cautious about?


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## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> That's an amazing area. Any predators you need to be cautious about?



Predators who threaten a human I cant tell (except snakes), but as I have been dozens of times at the top of the mountain do hiking. Once me and my wife saw a harpy eagle nestled on the floor of the trail very close to the top, adult and huge, the size of a child, more than 1 meter tall for sure. An extremely accurate hearing. I spoke quietly to call my wife about 80 meters away and yet she turned to see us and took flight. Certainly one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen is a huge bird of those flying with wings that were certainly about 2m in wingspan. They usually hunt the slotty that is an animal of the region and that I have seen some myself and even once I took one from the middle of a highway and took to the native forest.
Where I live, I also see several native species such as monkeys, toucans, hummingbirds and even jacu, which is a large and block bird also, it looks like a vulture but eats fruit. I post a Picture of na Harpy familiy and I saw one exactly as the big guy at the left.


Certainly the nature where I live is very beatiful and when I go to the montain seems like a real wild hiking too.


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## Leon big boy

Hi people. Lady had 9 beatiful puppies. 2 males André 7 females. Shes is Very Fine. Very pretty too.

You guys like The puppies?

I can post some more pics If you want.


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## ksotto333

Looks like a great hike, and what a beautiful area you live in.


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## Leon big boy

Lady And her litter. 11 days old.


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## Sabis mom

I am happy Lady and the pups are healthy. She is very young to have pups.


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## Leon big boy

Sabis mom said:


> I am happy Lady and the pups are healthy. She is very young to have pups.


She is almost 20 months old And a excellent Mother. Takes Very good Care of her pups. Clean them all The time, good And strong milk. Very protective.

She is back to her excellent shape Very quicklly too.

The 9 puppies are in Very good shape too. 2 big males, 6 big females And one small female.


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## GandalfTheShepherd

Leon big boy said:


> She is almost 20 months old And a excellent Mother. Takes Very good Care of her pups. Clean them all The time, good And strong milk. Very protective.
> 
> She is back to her excellent shape Very quicklly too.
> 
> The 9 puppies are in Very good shape too. 2 big males, 6 big females And one small female.


Have you found them all homes yet?


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## Leon big boy

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Have you found them all homes yet?



Yes, they are at their home yet, with their parente.


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## Leon big boy

Lady much more beatiful now as a mom, dont you think so?


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## GandalfTheShepherd

Leon big boy said:


> Yes, they are at their home yet, with their parente.


So you're keeping them all?


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## konathegsd

Well what’s done is done.

She does look happy and healthy.

Good luck!


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## Leon big boy

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> So you're keeping them all?


Yes. My kids love them. Maybe i will sell some because they are many. More then i expected.


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## Leon big boy

I Will take all this guys to The mountain pretty soon! They Will Love. Leon and lady loves to see The views at The top.


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## konathegsd

Leon big boy said:


> GandalfTheShepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're keeping them all?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. My kids love them. Maybe i will sell some because they are many. More then i expected.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar with litter mate syndrome ?


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## wolfy dog

Leon big boy said:


> Maybe I will sell some because they are many. More then i expected.


 Most likely because they have been mating as much as they wanted. 
Anyways, they are here. Make sure that lady gets all the food she needs and after weaning as well. You realize that, if you don't manage it, she will be bred a few months after weaning the pups right? And her female pups can be bred as early as nine months as well.
To me it all sounds problematic and irresponsible.


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## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> Most likely because they have been mating as much as they wanted.
> Anyways, they are here. Make sure that lady gets all the food she needs and after weaning as well. You realize that, if you don't manage it, she will be bred a few months after weaning the pups right? And her female pups can be bred as early as nine months as well.
> To me it all sounds problematic and irresponsible.


I Will separate tem. No litter soon. She needs rest at Least one or a couple of years.

I Will not stay with The puppies too. My parents and relatives want puppies too.


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## Sabis mom

Leon big boy said:


> She is almost 20 months old And a excellent Mother. Takes Very good Care of her pups. Clean them all The time, good And strong milk. Very protective.
> 
> She is back to her excellent shape Very quicklly too.
> 
> The 9 puppies are in Very good shape too. 2 big males, 6 big females And one small female.


As I said, she is young to be having pups. The problem isn't whether she is a good mother, it is that at her age although it may not seem like it she is still growing and developing herself. In both mind and body. This is why people say not to let them have pups until after 2 at least. 
And I believe the others were questioning if you had found other families for these puppies to live with when they are old enough to leave mom. Which is no younger then 8 weeks old by the way.


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## Fodder

Leon big boy said:


> I Will separate tem.


That was the plan 2 months ago. Worked out well.


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## wolfy dog

konathegsd said:


> Are you familiar with litter mate syndrome ?


Please don't give/sell two puppies to the same home; it is bad for the pups and owners. I hope you can turn this story around to a successful one. At least get one spayed or neutered. I am normally against spay and neuter, except in cases like these where both dogs under your supervision will create more and more pups over the years.
Realize that you, and only you, are responsible for these pups for their entire lives. What will you do when the owners of the pups will come back to you after a year and not wanting the dog(s) anymore? As the breeder you need to take them back and either keep them or find a better home. Are you committed to that for all 9?
Do you know how to raise the pups, are you in contact with a vet? Do you know what to feed them when they need solid food and at what age etc?
How are the pups housed?


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## konathegsd

Also, if you are keeping 2 or more, how are you going to prevent inbreeding ?


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## Sabis mom

Many of us here like you, have enjoyed watching your dogs grow up. I am struggling not to condemn you as irresponsible given the clear cultural differences. You clearly love your dogs.
What you have done, and will likely continue to seems wrong to many of us. So please understand that if we seem less then thrilled it is not for any other reason then concern for your dogs and these puppies. In most of North American(where many of us live) you would be considered a very irresponsible owner. You have allowed an unplanned breeding of a young bitch with no goal other then producing more unwanted pets. 
I sincerely hope that you will spay Lady and let her enjoy the rest of her life without pumping out litter after litter. Given Leons questionable parentage I believe he should be neutered. 
You will do want you wish and many here will help with questions and advice, but most of us are sincerely hoping you will not do this again.


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## wolfy dog

Sabis mom said:


> Many of us here like you, have enjoyed watching your dogs grow up. I am struggling not to condemn you as irresponsible given the clear cultural differences. You clearly love your dogs.
> What you have done, and will likely continue to seems wrong to many of us. So please understand that if we seem less then thrilled it is not for any other reason then concern for your dogs and these puppies. In most of North American(where many of us live) you would be considered a very irresponsible owner. You have allowed an unplanned breeding of a young bitch with no goal other then producing more unwanted pets.
> I sincerely hope that you will spay Lady and let her enjoy the rest of her life without pumping out litter after litter. Given Leons questionable parentage I believe he should be neutered.
> You will do want you wish and many here will help with questions and advice, but most of us are sincerely hoping you will not do this again.


That pretty much sums it up.


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## Leon big boy

Only left this two girls. 54 days. Leon and Lady are quite Well. Some pets i gave to my parents and uncle and some i sold for people who really love them. I let clear that they can bring them back for antes reason and o return The payment.
Did you like them?


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## wolfy dog

I hope you will have Lady spayed in two months.


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## Pytheis

The puppies are cute. The bottom one does not look purebred to me, but what does it matter anyway? They are here, and you can't take that back. I hope their new families take good care of them and they don't end up in the pound.


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## Fodder

Pytheis said:


> The puppies are cute. *The bottom one does not look purebred to me, *but what does it matter anyway? They are here, and you can't take that back. I hope their new families take good care of them and they don't end up in the pound.


They aren’t.


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## Pytheis

Fodder said:


> They aren’t.


Yes, I know. I just thought I would be a little nicer about it.


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## Leon big boy

Dont you guys think you exagerate a little bit in this pure thing?

Look at this girls. They are loveley and i love them as they are. They seems Very happy to me.

By The way, Rebecca, The Grey one is The most likely his Mother, who seems pure to me.


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## car2ner

Leon big boy said:


> Dont you guys think you exagerate a little bit in this pure thing?
> 
> Look at this girls. They are loveley and i love them as they are. They seems Very happy to me.
> 
> By The way, Rebecca, The Grey one is The most likely his Mother, who seems pure to me.


the look adorable, and as long as they are healthy and have good temperaments, there is no need to feel bad about them being mixed. In fact some people would think that can be a good thing. But most importantly, make sure you aren't letting Lady have more pups than you can find good stable homes for. Just make sure folks know that they aren't getting a pure, no matter how wonderful they are. 

And they do look wonderful


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## Pytheis

They are definitely not pure, but that doesn't mean they are any less cute, happy, healthy, or less deserving of a good home.


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## Leon big boy

Look at these girls. 2 months. You think they should stand their ears? I put some tape in The Grey one. What you think?


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## MineAreWorkingline

I think your pups are way too young to be taping ears. The annoyance, hair pulling, possible pain and infection is not worth it at this age. Give the ears a chance to stand on their own.


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## dogfaeries

Way too young to tape ears.


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## Pytheis

Please DO NOT tape their ears this young. Keep in mind that the sire has down ears, and it is HIGHLY likely that the pup's will have ears that don't stand. Don't make a problem where there isn't one by taping.


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## Leon big boy

Ok, i LL remove them. I think The Black one is almost a copy of Leon and her ears are too large and heavy. No chance to stand. The Other is more like Lady and i think that should stand. Dont you think so?

By The way, you think Rebeca is a sable gsd?


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## Leon big boy

This is Rebeca.


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## Fodder

Neither parent is sable. Therefore she cannot be sable.


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## Leon big boy

That is way i LL dont let people with kids get my puppies anymore! Look at this! By The way, i really miss my unpure Rebecca. :crying::grin2:


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## Leon big boy

By The way, this god son is giving The litlle Black one to his mom who is suffering by loss a puppy recently. Her ex-husband separate from her and take her puppy away.


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## Leon big boy

I miss Rebecca. Can we get a puppy back if we want? :crying:

Shes beatiful. Gonna be a beatiful bitch!


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## Sabis mom

I am glad you found homes for them all. I understand that you miss your favorite but I think you should focus on doing right by the two dogs you have.
I sincerely hope that you are planning to get them fixed and let them enjoy being pets.


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## Cascade

Such a cool view

Edit: whoops wrong thread


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## Leon big boy

Rebeca is getting beatiful, dont you agree? Her owner loves her and send more PICs. Here 2 and half months.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Rebecca is beautiful. Sounds like she has a great home.


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## wolfy dog

Good looking pup. very sweet and spunky eyes.


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## Leon big boy

Here is Black Wolf and his happy owner and good friend. Its loveley to see The love in kids eyes for their puppies!


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## Leon big boy

This is big Wolf with his New owners. Look at The size of this boy for 11 weeks! He is The bigger of The litter. Maybe Will be bigger than Leon who is about 130 lbs! Its loveley to see him grow with happy kids too.


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## Leon big boy

Here are Lady, Leon and his clone, big Wolf.


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## Leon big boy

This is Kira. I miss her so much! What can i do? :crying::crying:


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## car2ner

One reason (of many) that we never let our dogs have pups is because it would have been hard to give up those babies to new homes. 

I guess with people who breed a couple of times a year over a few years feel good about giving up the cuties to good homes.


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## wolfebergk9

Kira certainly is such a cute and sweet looking puppy.


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## Sabis mom

Leon big boy said:


> This is Kira. I miss her so much! What can i do? :crying::crying:


You stop producing puppies that you will then need to rehome. Problem solved. Has Lady been spayed yet or are you expecting another litter?


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## LuvShepherds

Their ears all came up. I remember you were worried.


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## Kazel

Leon big boy said:


> This is Kira. I miss her so much! What can i do? :crying::crying:


Spend time with the two dogs you have. We've heard about Leon but you never really talk about Lady. How is she doing?


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## Leon big boy

Kazel said:


> Spend time with the two dogs you have. We've heard about Leon but you never really talk about Lady. How is she doing?


Shes very fine. Great shape and beatiful as always!

People always send me photos for their new puppies and they love them Very much. I sad that they can return The puppies any time and get The money back but no one even mention that. Very good owners.

I offer Kira owner to give him back The Double but he sad that im Crazy! They love her too much! 

This pics are from last week.


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## Leon big boy

A beatiful day and another great walk to me and my wife to the mountains with Leon and Lady! I love to do this!


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## car2ner

stunning! thanks so much for the photos. I'd love to see places like that in person some day.


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## Leon big boy

Hey guys, now Leon is 22 months old so is almost Full grown, right? And ALL that Leonberger talk? You still think that? Note that all of his pups are standing their ears up as you Saw.
By his Head and body you still think he is mixed?


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom

Beautiful; photos. The mountains are stunning. Especially with the mist on them.. Love the picture with Leo staring out over the vista. He and Lady look like they are having a great time. Leo looks like a GSD whose ears didn't stand. However he is a handsome young dog. Enjoy . Is it summer where you are.


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## Pytheis

I still say he is mixed, no doubt about it.


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## Kazel

He is mixed without a doubt and leonberger if they are as described is still the best bet.


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## Leon big boy

Ok guys. But look Leon's pups. all standing their ears up with less than 3 months. What you think now?


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## Sabis mom

Ears up does not make a German Shepherd. And a couple of those pups look decidedly mixed. I have no clue what Leon is mixed with and I am unclear why you continue to insist he is purebred. His skull shape, ear set, legs and feet indicate otherwise. And even if you over look ALL of that he would be massively over size with poor conformation for a GSD. Not to mention that that both these dogs were too young to be bred and have had NO health testing. 
You have no idea what you produced in these pups or what genetic nightmares you may have dumped on these unsuspecting and apparently loving families. You can't say Leon and Lady are both healthy because you don't know and they have barely reached adulthood.


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## Leon big boy

Kira's owner send me a picture from her at her Kennel. Its really a nightmare... Live without her beauty! I really miss this Princess! :crying:
Im not so sure If such pureness is such important to Leon's pups. What i know is that People really love them ALL and none of The 9 owners touch in bring them back, dispite get back their cost.
Im really satisfyied to make people so happy. I didnt think that would be so Nice.


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Hey guys, now Leon is 22 months old so is almost Full grown, right? And ALL that Leonberger talk? You still think that? Note that all of his pups are standing their ears up as you Saw.
> By his Head and body you still think he is mixed?


Whether or not Leon is Purebred or not, i don't know. you would have to get him DNA tested I know that on some GS Puppies you Have to tape one of their ears if they don't stand on their own but, i have never heard of having to do it on both ears. Either way he is a beautiful dog!


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## Leon big boy

Sabis mom said:


> Ears up does not make a German Shepherd. And a couple of those pups look decidedly mixed. I have no clue what Leon is mixed with and I am unclear why you continue to insist he is purebred. His skull shape, ear set, legs and feet indicate otherwise. And even if you over look ALL of that he would be massively over size with poor conformation for a GSD. Not to mention that that both these dogs were too young to be bred and have had NO health testing.
> You have no idea what you produced in these pups or what genetic nightmares you may have dumped on these unsuspecting and apparently loving families. You can't say Leon and Lady are both healthy because you don't know and they have barely reached adulthood.


Sabis mom, thanks for your concern to The healthy of my dogs.They breed perfectly with no problems 9 excellent, healty and beatiful puppies! They dont get sick even walking on others dogs Path, so have good immunity. Both run and jumps Very fast and have strong bodies and good shape. Their parents I Saw and knew myself and are Very Fine dogs. I Gave good supplements to Prevent bad formation to hip displasy. They seems Fine to me.


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## tim_s_adams

Amigo, you can't tell by looking at a dog whether or not they carry, or will develop, many of the genetic problems that GSDs are prone to, it takes testing and x-rays from a qualified vet!

I think more importantly, and I'm in no way trying to speak for @Sabis mom here, that Leon is either a terrible example of a GSD, or he's a mix. As I've said many times, I believe strongly that he's a mix (see my Leonberger post!). That the puppies from this litter all had ears that stood up, does not change that at all, NADA! That boy, handsome though he may be, is NOT a purebred GSD!


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## Leon big boy

tim_s_adams said:


> Amigo, you can't tell by looking at a dog whether or not they carry, or will develop, many of the genetic problems that GSDs are prone to, it takes testing and x-rays from a qualified vet!
> 
> I think more importantly, and I'm in no way trying to speak for @Sabis mom here, that Leon is either a terrible example of a GSD, or he's a mix. As I've said many times, I believe strongly that he's a mix (see my Leonberger post!). That the puppies from this litter all had ears that stood up, does not change that at all, NADA! That boy, handsome though he may be, is NOT a purebred GSD!


Guys, i think i have found a DNA test to see what breeds compose Leon's DNA. Costs about 120 Bucks here. Im really thinking in do that Just for kill The curiosity of so many posts and Fellows here.

In my country this is not so cheap as in your, of course. I Will get more info and see.


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## Leon big boy

Artemis owner sendo some pics from her. 3 months today. What you think a about this Leon's child? Doesnt seems a GSD for you?


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## Sabis mom

You can keep posting puppy pictures for all eternity. None of them will alter the fact that IF Leon is purebred he is a horrible example of the breed and you allowed to young and untested animals to reproduce and from all appearances will do so again. For most of us this is grossly irresponsible. You cannot tell a dogs genetic health by looking at it! 
Leon is a very lovely boy, he is NOT a good example of a German Shepherd.


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## Leon big boy

Sabis mom said:


> You can keep posting puppy pictures for all eternity. None of them will alter the fact that IF Leon is purebred he is a horrible example of the breed and you allowed to young and untested animals to reproduce and from all appearances will do so again. For most of us this is grossly irresponsible. You cannot tell a dogs genetic health by looking at it!
> Leon is a very lovely boy, he is NOT a good example of a German Shepherd.


Ok Sabis mom. I think i got your point. Thanks.


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## car2ner

Leon big boy said:


> Guys, i think i have found a DNA test to see what breeds compose Leon's DNA. Costs about 120 Bucks here. Im really thinking in do that Just for kill The curiosity of so many posts and Fellows here.
> 
> In my country this is not so cheap as in your, of course. I Will get more info and see.


I Like Embark Vet and that is around the price in the states.


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## Kazel

Leon big boy said:


> Artemis owner sendo some pics from her. 3 months today. What you think a about this Leon's child? Doesnt seems a GSD for you?


You bred a GSD/mutt with a purebred GSD. Chances are the puppies are going to look more like a GSD. Did any of them inherit his extra toes? If you look at Leon he is obviously mixed. It isn't just the down ears. It's the large body, extra toes, body shape, look at his neck fluff. He reminds me a lot of my Uncle's maremma/Pyrenees mix but with a GSD coat color. 

I hope you told the people buying that these are mixed puppies and not purebreds.


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## Leon big boy

Kazel said:


> You bred a GSD/mutt with a purebred GSD. Chances are the puppies are going to look more like a GSD. Did any of them inherit his extra toes? If you look at Leon he is obviously mixed. It isn't just the down ears. It's the large body, extra toes, body shape, look at his neck fluff. He reminds me a lot of my Uncle's maremma/Pyrenees mix but with a GSD coat color.
> 
> I hope you told the people buying that these are mixed puppies and not purebreds.


Ok Kazel, but AKC states that typical weight for great pyrenees is 100 pounds and GSD is 85 pounds, so How can the mixed Leon be more than 120 pounds and NOT Fat? I Say that because i saw him running fast, easily jumping stairs, etc.

For reference, i am 1,84 m and 240 lbs. You Saw him stand in my side.

For The owners, ALL of them Saw Leon when they came to get Their puppies and no one show any disapointment. They loved Leon and Lady.


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## clipke

Your dog is fat though. This is my 115lbs GSD. He's lean, has proper proportions, standing ears, etc. Your dog is 100% mixed. I'd say your dog isn't even a quarter GSD. Having the correct color coat but being so obviously not a GSD in every other recognizable way doesn't make it a GSD. My dog has a 36+ inch vertical jump. The "fast leon" likely can barely jump.


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## Leon big boy

clipke said:


> Your dog is fat though. This is my 115lbs GSD. He's lean, has proper proportions, standing ears, etc. Your dog is 100% mixed. I'd say your dog isn't even a quarter GSD. Having the correct color coat but being so obviously not a GSD in every other recognizable way doesn't make it a GSD. My dog has a 36+ inch vertical jump. The "fast leon" likely can barely jump.



Beatiful animal! Very nice shape too! Its a shame we cant put these two gentle giants to play together! Put some more pics from him. Its nice to see how proud are you from your dog. Its a gourgeaus GSD, no doubt about that!


----------



## Sabis mom

Leon big boy said:


> Ok Kazel, but AKC states that typical weight for great pyrenees is 100 pounds and GSD is 85 pounds, so How can the mixed Leon be more than 120 pounds and NOT Fat? I Say that because i saw him running fast, easily jumping stairs, etc.
> 
> For reference, i am 1,84 m and 240 lbs. You Saw him stand in my side.
> 
> For The owners, ALL of them Saw Leon when they came to get Their puppies and no one show any disapointment. They loved Leon and Lady.



No one is disputing that Leon is a lovely boy, and we certainly know you are proud of him. 

Since we live in different parts of the world I did a bit of digging and poked at my brain. Brazil is home to a number of recognized and unrecognized giant dogs, a few mastiff types and some referred to as mountain dogs. German Shepherds rank fairly low on the popularity scale and are by far less common then Rottweilers, Golden Retrievers and Labs. Leons face seems very Golden like in some photos. 

What a did find are very popular is a type/breed called Pastor de Mantiqueira, and they are very decidedly shepherd looking.(In fact the one breeder has a female that looks eerily a lot like Lady.)


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## Pytheis

Sabis mom said:


> What a did find are very popular is a type/breed called Pastor de Mantiqueira, and they are very decidedly shepherd looking.(In fact the one breeder has a female that looks eerily a lot like Lady.)


I just did a quick Google search with the breed you named, and I saw quite a few dogs that look similar to Lady. I have always doubted that either of them are purebred German shepherds, but now I wonder if either of them have _any_ GSD.

It makes me sad that these dogs will likely continue to be bred. As if we don't have enough dogs running around homeless and unloved. There is absolutely NO reason to breed mixed breed dogs. Period.


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## Leon big boy

Ok fellows. Sabis mom gave me a very interesting clue from wath breed Leon could come.
I live near Rio de Janeiro and there is a big Portuguese community and in Portugal there is a very beatiful Shepherd called Star Mountain Dog and his body shape really seems very much (to me) from Leon's shape. They are very big and Strong dogs too, and I even already saw some ones as I lived in Portugal a couple of decades ago and I visited Star Mountain already.


Here I get some pics from Star Mountain Dog and you guys can take your impressions too. Maybe Leon can be mixed from a big GSD and a Star Mountain Dog and that could explain too his big and floppy ears too.


Thanks Sabis mom! I think you really got the point!


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## tim_s_adams

Or the Leonberger, which looks very similar...


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## Sabis mom

Looks like it may be resolved! @tim_s_adams, I just wasn't sure how common Leonbergers were in Rio. For that matter these Estrela Mountain dogs aren't that common anywhere outside of Portugal, but I guess if they are popular there and there is a large Portuguese community it's possible. 
Both breeds are very similar in appearance, and likely share some common lineage. I was unable to find any mention of the double dew claws but I will keep digging.

Edited to add this: they do have single our double rear dewclaws as per this site
https://www.petcha.com/which-dog-breeds-have-the-most-toes/


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## Leon big boy

yes, they are. I did think in Serra Mountain Dog because Leonbergers are extremly rare here in Brasil with very few breeders. Otherwise, there is a big Portuguese community in Rio and I already saw some people selling Serra Mountain Dogs here in OLX and they sureley could be brought from Portugal with their owners for living here and breed too. I say extremely rare for example for sureley less than 10 breeders for a population of 200 million people... I found mention to just one breeder in Brazil. Its Klaus Dieter Sautter and he is on facebook. He lives very far from Rio, so I think that Leonberger dont seems a real alternative to me.


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## Leon big boy

In fact Leonbergers and Star Mountain Dogs are so similiar that I think that maybe Shepherds from Star Mountain in Portugal bring Leonbergers to breed in their place some decades ago and started to call them the name of the place, dont you think so? Its funny but portuguese maybe wanted so simplify the local breed name, rs


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## dogma13

Curiosity got the best of me so I Googled star mountain dogs and found out it's a kennel in Portugal that breeds Estrela Mountain Dogs.They are very large dogs with the double dew claws on their back legs.They look very much like your Leon.


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## Leon big boy

dogma13 said:


> Curiosity got the best of me so I Googled star mountain dogs and found out it's a kennel in Portugal that breeds Estrela Mountain Dogs.They are very large dogs with the double dew claws on their back legs.They look very much like your Leon.


Yep buddy, i think we got It. Leon certainly is descendent of these dogs and i love that. I lived in Portugal 20 Years and i made Electrical and Telecom Engineering at Aveiro University.


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## Sabis mom

Leon big boy said:


> In fact Leonbergers and Star Mountain Dogs are so similiar that I think that maybe Shepherds from Star Mountain in Portugal bring Leonbergers to breed in their place some decades ago and started to call them the name of the place, dont you think so? Its funny but portuguese maybe wanted so simplify the local breed name, rs


I think you may have that backwards, lol. From what I can determine these Star Mountain Dogs are a much older breed then the Leonberger. The man credited with developing Leonbergers stated that he used a Landseer Newf, that would make the breed not very old, where as the Star Mountain Dogs apparently trace back considerably farther and are assumed to be a result of invading mastiffs and local herders I think. I am reading a language not familiar to me and trying my best to understand. I have never tried to read Portuguese before. Sorry.


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## Courtney

Great pics! I love to see dogs out on adventures!

(Some dogs never leave their yard)


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## Leon big boy

The Serra da Estrela Dog is a breed of Portuguese origin and is nowadays one of the most popular breeds of dogs in Portugal. The Serra da Estrela dog is a large dog, a molossoid type mastiff. With a rustic appearance, the Serra da Estrela Dog is a well proportioned breed and demonstrates an imposing attitude*. This breed has an expressive and sweet look.*
The Serra da Estrela Dog is a magnificent keeper of farm and house, distrustful of strangers and typically docile to its owners. The coat is slightly thick, abundant, with a texture similar to goat hair. The undercoat is thin and short, usually lighter than the coat coat. The Serra da Estrela dog has two varieties of fur; long and short. The typical colors of the breed are the Solid (yellow, fawn and gray in any tone and intensity); the Gray Wolf (fawn with shades of yellow and gray); and the Tigrado (basic fawn color, yellow or gray with black stripes).
*The average height of the male dogs of the breed is between 65 and 73 cm, always measured the height of the withers. Females should measure between 62 and 69 cm. The weight of this dog can vary from 35 to 60 kg.* :surprise:
(...)
Source: 
http://m.guiaderacas.com.br/cao_da_serra_da_estrela.shtml


They are Sweet to The family and Very Very big, up to 130 lbs. That could explain some things about Leon's size and behaviour, I guess.

I guess that they are diferent breed from Leonberger too as they a Very old breed, since Portugal rising, almost 900 years Ago. The are Very look like but can be not so related.


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## El_rex

*Leon big boy, *I cant remember (although I was pretty much following your dog's story) if you got to see Leon's parents when you went to buy him. If so, what did they look like?
From the genetics point of view, i wonder if they both were mixed or only one of them.. I mean, how much GSD is in Leon's genes?


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## GandalfTheShepherd

Just get a DNA test done already and stop guessing... take the money you got off of breeding puppies and invest a little in the parents, get some health testing done while you're at it. You could guess he's a unicorn alien from planet mars and have no better clue than what you have now. Looks like a 100% mutt to me. If you really like breeding so much get your health testing done, get some well bred dogs, title them , train them, and then breed them.


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## BigOzzy2018

And tell me Ganda does health testing and titles guarantee a healthy pup/adult w sound temperature breed standard???????

I’m so sick of hearing all this BS, no health testing or titles can produce a sound healthy pup it’s all a gamble no matter what testing u do or what titles u do. Does it give a better possibility yes but again no guarantee. Just remember, you can get the best sire and dam with all testing titles blah blah blah and guess what bad hips EPI allergies, horrible temperament etc. 

Should this guy breed no but he did it’s his dogs he can do whatever he wants. So tired of people telling others what to do, how to do it etc with their dogs. 

Done with my rant had to get that off my chest. Who knows may b my last post here. I’ve been away from here for over 8yrs came back, new pup and I still see the same ole same ole. Grrrrrrr


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## BigOzzy2018

By the way not just picking on you Ganda others have commented as well and post goes for all of them as well.


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## Leon big boy

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Just get a DNA test done already and stop guessing... take the money you got off of breeding puppies and invest a little in the parents, get some health testing done while you're at it. You could guess he's a unicorn alien from planet mars and have no better clue than what you have now. Looks like a 100% mutt to me. If you really like breeding so much get your health testing done, get some well bred dogs, title them , train them, and then breed them.



GandalfTheShepherd, thanks for the advice and your concern for my dogs. I think I understood what you meant and I'm sure your intentions were the best. My mutts may not be as pure as some fellows here think they should be, but they are making me and mine and several others families extremely happy, and have as much right to be in the world and to be happy as any other dog, whether pure or not. 


There are other, much higher values ​​in the interaction between humans and our adorable pet dogs than breed purity. I admire and respect the work of the breeders in improving the breed but I'm sure you agree with me in that regard and you love and care for your dogs just as I do with mine.


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## Leon big boy

El_rex said:


> *Leon big boy, *I cant remember (although I was pretty much following your dog's story) if you got to see Leon's parents when you went to buy him. If so, what did they look like?
> From the genetics point of view, i wonder if they both were mixed or only one of them.. I mean, how much GSD is in Leon's genes?


 
Buddy, I remember Leon's parents because I saw them. They looked like pure GSDs to me. Very similar to the standard. Large dogs, but with all the features of a standard GSD. Somewhat comparable to the cute and big dog with 115 pounds that our friend Junior showed up standing some posts back. The only thing I noticed was that the Leon was actually a little different, bigger and stronger than his brothers, he even climbed on top of them when it came to food. Of course I can not assure that his father is the same as I saw because his mother may have escaped and another dog may have crossed, or he has pulled the genes of some ancestor. Sincerely, I don't know. I'll see if I find some pictures I took of him and his siblings to post here, okay?


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## GypsyGhost

First let me say that it is obvious that you really love your dogs. Which is great. Everyone should think they have the greatest dogs in the world. I know I think that way about mine! That of course shouldn’t change if they are not purebred. In your shoes, I would forego the expense of the DNA test, because it really isn’t going to change things one way or the other. They’ve already been bred, I suspect they will be bred again, and I don’t think the results of a DNA test will change that. If you want to keep breeding them, you will. It’s as simple as that. Instead, I would put that money toward getting hips and elbows x-rayed on both of your dogs, and if you can, DM tests for both as well. At least make sure the orthopedics are sound in your dogs before continuing to breed them. If you are dead set on continuing to breed these two dogs, I would not breed them again until their current puppies are close to 2 years old. See what kind of temperament is being passed down, make sure they are healthy. I’m certainly not advocating the continued breeding of these two dogs... let me make that clear. But try to stack the odds in the owners of these puppies favor by at least doing health testing.


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## Kazel

BigOzzy2018 said:


> And tell me Ganda does health testing and titles guarantee a healthy pup/adult w sound temperature breed standard???????
> 
> I’m so sick of hearing all this BS, no health testing or titles can produce a sound healthy pup it’s all a gamble no matter what testing u do or what titles u do. Does it give a better possibility yes but again no guarantee. Just remember, you can get the best sire and dam with all testing titles blah blah blah and guess what bad hips EPI allergies, horrible temperament etc.
> 
> Should this guy breed no but he did it’s his dogs he can do whatever he wants. So tired of people telling others what to do, how to do it etc with their dogs.
> 
> Done with my rant had to get that off my chest. Who knows may b my last post here. I’ve been away from here for over 8yrs came back, new pup and I still see the same ole same ole. Grrrrrrr


It is a gamble yes because of Mother Nature. But it also isn't. It's pretty obvious if you breed unhealthy or poor temperament dogs that is what you get. Some health issues can only be found out by testing. The more dogs bred the less homes for each one, so the more people breeding irresponsibly without doing their best to produce healthy sound dogs the more unhealthy unsound dogs you will get and the more dogs to end up in shelters. If you were buying a new vehicle would you rather have something a mechanic had looked at or something that you had no history on, just told it runs good with nothing to back that up? 

The people on here still talk about health testing and titling because people are still pumping out puppies with no real concern for health or temperament. Lots of people, my dog is sweet and well behaved. It's totally a non concern that he tries to attack other dogs or is terrified of his own shadow because I love him and he's the best dog otherwise. And lots of people believe temperament is all in how you raise them but it is not. 

Some people on here though can get excessive and definitely attack the people breeding. That does not help. These puppies are already out here but maybe they could stop another litter from happening. I'm not saying there can't be excellent puppies that go to good homes. But there are a lot of excellent puppies out there than end up put down. Not everybody needs to breed their dogs. It's there right to but it isn't a bad thing to discourage people from breeding or to teach them more responsible ways to do it.


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## GandalfTheShepherd

BigOzzy2018 said:


> And tell me Ganda does health testing and titles guarantee a healthy pup/adult w sound temperature breed standard???????
> 
> I’m so sick of hearing all this BS, no health testing or titles can produce a sound healthy pup it’s all a gamble no matter what testing u do or what titles u do. Does it give a better possibility yes but again no guarantee. Just remember, you can get the best sire and dam with all testing titles blah blah blah and guess what bad hips EPI allergies, horrible temperament etc.
> 
> Should this guy breed no but he did it’s his dogs he can do whatever he wants. So tired of people telling others what to do, how to do it etc with their dogs.
> 
> Done with my rant had to get that off my chest. Who knows may b my last post here. I’ve been away from here for over 8yrs came back, new pup and I still see the same ole same ole. Grrrrrrr


Health testing gives you a better chance of producing healthy puppies vs. shooting randomly in the dark and hoping for the best. I've seen the aftermath and the damage done by horrible breeders, puppies with seizures, skin issues, hot spots, food allergies, other neurological issues, prone to aggressiveness (ever seen a dog with a loose screw?), bad hips, breeders that don't know how to make a proper whelping set up, bitches eating their puppies and then them breeding them again, back yard breeders going and breeding a bitch too YOUNG just like this one right here. And then most likely going to breed it again, and again, and again. How is that for HER health? My first shepherd had all of those issues, he was a freaking wreck and the back yard breeder just disappeared back into the wood work leaving my family trying our heart out to care for this poor sick dog that we loved more than anything. There are way TOO MANY puppies getting put to sleep every day in shelters, we don't need more of this. My dog is sweet, handsome, smart, I get people stopping me all the time wanting me to breed him! Am I going to ? NO! He has health issues, and that is not enough reason for me either even if he didn't have health issues. If you're going to breed a dog and make it your business you should at least be responsible enough to try to ensure the best you can that you're producing healthy puppies, I ask why WOULDN'T YOU? We should only be breeding dogs that have proven their health and talent. I love the GSD standard for what it is, a brave loyal dog capable of performing so many tasks. We should be improving the breed, not throwing wild cards into the pool. I'm sorry you feel that way but that is the point of a forum, people speak their mind. I'm not telling him what to do, but I am voicing my concern for the health of these dogs in hopes that he will change his breeding practices. I congratulate him for finding homes for the puppies at least, and I do hope they don't get returned.


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## ksotto333

I think we all need to remember different cultures, different parts of the world and that not everything can be judged by the same standards in the States. In the 60's or 70's when I was growing up, no one would have thought twice about this situation. I personally don't care about Leon's breeding, although hearing about the other breeds is interesting. I think Leon and Lady's family love them, care for them and looks like their puppies are much loved. Would it be best if they didn't have more litters, probably yes, is it the end of the world if they do, probably not.


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## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> I think we all need to remember different cultures, different parts of the world and that not everything can be judged by the same standards in the States. In the 60's or 70's when I was growing up, no one would have thought twice about this situation. I personally don't care about Leon's breeding, although hearing about the other breeds is interesting. I think Leon and Lady's family love them, care for them and looks like their puppies are much loved. Would it be best if they didn't have more litters, probably yes, is it the end of the world if they do, probably not.


I have said repeatedly that I am struggling to keep cultural differences in mind. Two things really bothered me though. Lady was just a year and a half old and this potential to misrepresent Leon as a purebred GSD, therefore misleading buyers. Fairness in all things is an issue for me. I will personally stand on an ethical point until I am dead. Lol. That's just me. 
It is very clear that the dogs, or at least Leon, are loved and that they receive care appropriate or above what local culture dictates. If we can educate people I see no harm.


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## tim_s_adams

Edumacation is good for all cultures! And especially for the breed!


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## car2ner

I am glad this was brought up. I also stand on the side of the thought, "do you REALLY need to breed your dogs?". I do admire Leon's humans. They have listened to us and responded to us nay-sayers with grace and respect.


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## Leon big boy

Hey Fellows i wish to thanks you ALL for The many advices and opinions i got here. 

By The way, There is a virgin Forest area in my propierty behind my home that my dogs love to Walk every day.
You think that is some danger for them? They do this daily more than a year ago.


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## Sabis mom

When I walk in the woods I am aware of the danger of animals, biting insects and snakes. Around here we also need to watch for old trap/snare lines and various human trash that may pose a threat.


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## car2ner

I also have some woods behind my house and on my property and fenced in. I check it now and then for thorns, animal dens and such. I also have to make sure my dogs have flea and tick repellent. I love that our dogs have a place to sniff and wander without worry of them running off. You have nice property for dogs and such.


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## Leon big boy

Kira's owner sendo us a bit more of her beauty! Who can resist to this unpure child? :wink2:


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## Leon big boy

Today I and Leon were back to top and we made new friends!


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Kira's owner sendo us a bit more of her beauty! Who can resist to this unpure child? /forum/images/Germanshepherds_2016/smilies/tango_face_wink.png


Beautiful pup!!


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## Benjaminb

Have you been able to get Leon Tested to see what he has in him?


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## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Have you been able to get Leon Tested to see what he has in him?



No buddy, not yet. Im not sure yet if I gonna make the Leon's DNA test. I got more interested on his hips X-Ray.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Leon big boy said:


> No buddy, not yet. Im not sure yet if I gonna make the Leon's DNA test. I got more interested on his hips X-Ray.


You are lucky that you have such beautiful mountains nearby to walk your dogs and that they are so well behaved that they can really enjoy this time off leash. Dogs can learn so much from "adventure" training, just by being out and about and being allowed to be dogs. Thank you for sharing the beautiful pictures of your calm and happy dogs enjoying life with you.


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## Leon big boy

MineAreWorkingline, I agree with you!. It's wonderful to see how these dogs love interacting with nature and know how to deal with tolerance and understanding towards the people around them, even though they are completely foreign. 


It is also impressive how they got this notion of sharing space with strangers (streets, tracks, etc) but at the same time they do not fail to fulfill their role of being alert and attentive to any suspicious movement but with a balanced reaction. For example, it is clear to me that in passing or interacting with the people who pass the way, Leon and Lady observe above all the way people interact with me and respond in the same way. If the person is indifferent, they become indifferent. If the person compliments and speaks amicably, they become relaxed and even tolerate proximity allowing even some physical interaction such as running a hand over their heads and so on. If people arrive in suspense and they realize that I have not seen them yet, they stay alert and even raise their ears to assess the attitude of those who are approaching. 


The other day a stranger approached and raised his hand to touch Leon and he saw that I didnt saw the stranger. Leon reacted with a faint roar at the same time and show that he was in control of the approach. 


In short, they are extremely intelligent animals with great sensitivity. They are not the beasts as many judge, especially when they are educated and we give them the confidence and balance to interact with the social environment around them. At that point you are quite right.


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## Leon big boy

Another funny thing is that in the photo with the new friends, I said to Leon: Leon, go there to your new friends and sit that I'm going to take a picture of you! They are even laughing at the photo because they were surprised to see that he did exactly what I said! :grin2: Of course he recognize the words "go there" and "sit" because some times I gave that commands to him (never at the same time!) and he do as a said.


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## Courtney

Leon is a good steward of the mountain!


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## MineAreWorkingline

That picture overlooking the city is stunning!


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Benjaminb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you been able to get Leon Tested to see what he has in him?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No buddy, not yet. Im not sure yet if I gonna make the Leon's DNA test. I got more interested on his hips X-Ray.
Click to expand...

OK Sounds Good!


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## Leon big boy

Arthur and I went to the bakery to buy bread with our steward!


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## Leon big boy

Someone wanna stop this fight?. :grin2:


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## Benjaminb

Awesome Pictures! What is the Climate like where you live?


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## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Awesome Pictures! What is the Climate like where you live?


Im live near Rio de Janeiro, about 70 km. Its a mountain region and I live about 900m high. The climate here is about 5 to 10 ºC less then at Rio. The air is very fresh and clean. Its a beatiful and very nice place, as you see. I have a little river in front off my home and i get my water from his spring. Its very nice. Thes pics with Arthur and Leon I got at this river bank.


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Im live near Rio de Janeiro, about 70 km. Its a mountain region and I live about 900m high. The climate here is about 5 to 10 ºC less then at Rio. The air is very fresh and clean. Its a beatiful and very nice place, as you see. I have a little river in front off my home and i get my water from his spring. Its very nice. Thes pics with Arthur and Leon I got at this river bank.


Sounds like a Awesome Place! Rio de Janeiro and the surrounding area are very beautiful


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## Leon big boy

Another baby from Leon and Lady. Big eyes, dont you agree?


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Another baby from Leon and Lady. Big eyes, dont you agree?


Sure is a Cute puppy! Is it a he or a she?


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## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Sure is a Cute puppy! Is it a he or a she?


She. 3 months and one week.


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## Benjaminb

Another thing i would recommend for Leon is testing him and lady for DM (degenerative myelopathy)
Not saying your dogs have it, but if i bred dogs i would definitely test for it!


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## Benjaminb

This has good information on this problem. https://m.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2012/june/degenerative_myelopathy_in_dogs-25037


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## Leon big boy

Today Leon Gave me a Kiss for bring him to The mountain again. He Love It!


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## Benjaminb

Looks like a sweet Dog! Does lady go with you too?


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## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Looks like a sweet Dog! Does lady go with you too?


No. I think maybe she is in heat so i dont let her go out.


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## Leon big boy

Another Walk with my steward to The mountain. What you think about Leon shape? Too much Lean? I think he got strong mussels going up so many times! Should i feed him more a bit?


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Another Walk with my steward to The mountain. What you think about Leon shape? Too much Lean? I think he got strong mussels going up so many times! Should i feed him more a bit?


It is hard to tell from the picture. I know that one way that you can tell is if you put your hands on his sides you shouldn't be able to feel his ribs, (without putting pressure) if you feel the ribs with no pressure then i would say that he is underweight. And also if you know pretty well what breed Leon is than you could look up the standard weight for his breed.


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## Mei

Leon big boy said:


> Today Leon Gave me a Kiss for bring him to The mountain again. He Love It!


Leon looks very sweet!


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## Benjaminb

Leon looks like a serra da estrela dog so i looked up how much they weigh and it seems to be between 88 and 110 pounds. If you have a Veterinarian in your area you could probably ask what they thought as well.


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## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Leon looks like a serra da estrela dog so i looked up how much they weigh and it seems to be between 88 and 110 pounds. If you have a Veterinarian in your area you could probably ask what they thought as well.


Leon is about 130 lbs. I saw that serra da estrela dog can reach up to 145 lbs.


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Benjaminb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leon looks like a serra da estrela dog so i looked up how much they weigh and it seems to be between 88 and 110 pounds. If you have a Veterinarian in your area you could probably ask what they thought as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Leon is about 130 lbs. I saw that serra da estrela dog can reach up to 145 lbs.
Click to expand...

Oh ok. I copied that from a Wikipedia about serra da estrela dogs. Can you feel his ribs without trying? I looked at the pictures more closely and he doesn't look overweight or underweight.


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## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Oh ok. I copied that from a Wikipedia about serra da estrela dogs. Can you feel his ribs without trying? I looked at the pictures more closely and he doesn't look overweight or underweight.


yes, I can. I think he is in excellent shape. Is a very strong boy. Other day I tried to pull him into the pool and I have no chance. Hes very gentle too but an excellent body guard. I confess I feel a bit more safe with him on my side as he is always alert to strangers and who is coming. He is very obedient too. All the things I tell him to do He seems to understand me very well and do just as I sad.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Benjaminb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh ok. I copied that from a Wikipedia about serra da estrela dogs. Can you feel his ribs without trying? I looked at the pictures more closely and he doesn't look overweight or underweight.
> 
> 
> 
> yes, I can. I think he is in excellent shape. Is a very strong boy. Other day I tried to pull him into the pool and I have no chance. Hes very gentle too but an excellent body guard. I confess I feel a bit more safe with him on my side as he is always alert to strangers and who is coming. He is very obedient too. All the things I tell him to do He seems to understand me very well and do just as I sad.
Click to expand...

If you can feel his ribs without trying (putting pressure on his sides) i would give him a little more. Another thing I thought of is is he a free feeder, or in other words does he get to eat as much as he wants? Or does he get a serving every day? That is something we have done before. Give them food, if they eat all of it give them a little more, if they don't eat it all we give them a little less.


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## Sabis mom

Leon big boy said:


> Leon is about 130 lbs. I saw that serra da estrela dog can reach up to 145 lbs.


You should never judge his weight by looking at a breed standard. My malamute was nearly starved to death by her previous owners because they read that she should not be heavier then 70lbs, but she was 3 inches taller then standard and very big boned. Similarly My Great Dane in ideal condition was 100lbs while people told me she should weigh 120lbs, not understanding that she was very small for a Great Dane.

It is hard to judge Leon's body condition because of his coat, but looking at pictures and the skin around his neck he looks overweight. Without pressing you should be able to feel his ribs, and in very large dogs keeping them lean is better for their joints. If there is a hump, or cushion at the top of his tail on his spine he is probably overweight. 
Also I notice when you make him stand tall his back legs sink. This could indicate that you are straining his hips. As his joints are still young best not to put unnecessary pressure.


----------



## Leon big boy

Sabis mom said:


> You should never judge his weight by looking at a breed standard. My malamute was nearly starved to death by her previous owners because they read that she should not be heavier then 70lbs, but she was 3 inches taller then standard and very big boned. Similarly My Great Dane in ideal condition was 100lbs while people told me she should weigh 120lbs, not understanding that she was very small for a Great Dane.
> 
> It is hard to judge Leon's body condition because of his coat, but looking at pictures and the skin around his neck he looks overweight. Without pressing you should be able to feel his ribs, and in very large dogs keeping them lean is better for their joints. If there is a hump, or cushion at the top of his tail on his spine he is probably overweight.
> Also I notice when you make him stand tall his back legs sink. This could indicate that you are straining his hips. As his joints are still young best not to put unnecessary pressure.


Thanks Sabis mom! Nice tips!


----------



## Leon big boy

Hey guys, here are some other pictures I took from same place in others walks before I got Leon and Lady. I think sometimes that Im really luck to live near by some espetacular place to visit and take the dogs. I hope you enjoy!


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Hey guys, here are some other pictures I took from same place in others walks before I got Leon and Lady. I think sometimes that Im really luck to live near by some espetacular place to visit and take the dogs. I hope you enjoy!


Awesome pictures!


----------



## Leon big boy

Hi guys, another walk today and I got some more pictures from Leon at the sun light. Now its easier to tell if he is overweighted?


----------



## car2ner

My boy looks much bigger than he is because he has a coat similar to your Leon's. The best way to tell is feel. Do you feel the ribs? How about the hips and back bone. Under all that fur my boy is lean, but you can't tell without running fingers under the fur.


Looks like Leon could use a bit of brushing around that rump of his.


----------



## Leon big boy

car2ner said:


> My boy looks much bigger than he is because he has a coat similar to your Leon's. The best way to tell is feel. Do you feel the ribs? How about the hips and back bone. Under all that fur my boy is lean, but you can't tell without running fingers under the fur.
> 
> 
> Looks like Leon could use a bit of brushing around that rump of his.


Yes Fellow. I can feel his rins easily.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Hi guys, another walk today and I got some more pictures from Leon at the sun light. Now its easier to tell if he is overweighted?


 Do you have a reason for wondering? Or were you just curious? He looks like a good healthy dog.


----------



## Leon big boy

Kira 3 months and 2weeks. Seems to gonna be a Powerfull girl, dont you agree?


----------



## car2ner

I love watching their family grow.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Kira 3 months and 2weeks. Seems to gonna be a Powerfull girl, dont you agree?


Beautiful pup!


----------



## Leon big boy

Kira beatifull as ever!


----------



## Leon big boy

Another Leon and lady good girl. This was gift from a son to his mom who loss her puppy taked by her ex husband.


----------



## Leon big boy

This is another girl. Very pretty too.


----------



## Leon big boy

Another big girl. They are pretty similar but ALL beatifull princess dont you think so?


----------



## LuvShepherds

The puppies are beautiful. They will make their new owners very happy.


----------



## wolfy dog

Agreed. Very nice looking pups. They must have good homes too.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Another Leon and lady good girl. This was gift from a son to his mom who loss her puppy taked by her ex husband.


Man! Beautiful dog!
(edit) actually they are all beautiful!


----------



## Benjaminb

How many of your Puppies are long haired?


----------



## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> How many of your Puppies are long haired?


 I think most of them buddy. Leon is a full long coat and Lady is a medium standard coat for me.I think that from the 9 pups maybe 7 are long coat. Only Lobo the big male and one of the females are medium.


----------



## Fodder

Lady’s coat is shorter than Leon’s but genetically she is still considered a long coat.


----------



## bqdmmo

Fodder said:


> Lady’s coat is shorter than Leon’s but genetically she is still considered a long coat.


Leon’s but genetically she is still considered a long coat :grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## Leon big boy

Nice walk today with my wife, daughter and Leon to little Castel. Good boy!


----------



## Mei

Looks like a great day!


----------



## wolfy dog

Do you ever take Lady?


----------



## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> Do you ever take Lady?


 I dont taking Lady for now because Im not sure if she is in heat right now. Other reason too is that today is saturday and there are much more chances to get people and their dogs too and Lady gets a bit more nervous with other dogs and likes to run behind them and so this scare their owners.

I usually just take lady in other days because its more easy to her to get relaxed. Soon I will take her and post some pictures for you guys. She loves to walk too, of course. For now she is walking just for the little montain behind my house were they usually go to play and explore things.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Nice walk today with my wife, daughter and Leon to little Castel. Good boy!


Looks like Leon had fun. Would like to see some of Lady too!


----------



## Leon big boy

A beatifull Leons puppy girl. 4 months. Barbara.


----------



## wolfy dog

have to admit, they made beautiful puppies.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> A Beautiful Leons puppy girl. 4 months. Barbara.


Beautiful dog. I wonder if Leon and Lady's puppies ears will stand erect, stand half way or lay down like Leons?


----------



## wolfy dog

Her ears look adorable, I wouldn't change a thing. Doesn't look like they will stand. In the Chinook breed they call these 'helicopter ears'.


----------



## Leon big boy

Other Leons puppy. This big boy. His name is fatty.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Other Leons puppy. This big boy. His name is fatty.


Sure is a good looking dog! Nice name btw lol


----------



## Leon big boy

Another Nice walk. Today with Lady also.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

It's nice to see Lady! She looks like she had a fun day lol.


----------



## Nurse Bishop

I have not read this thread, just looked at the first pictures. Is Leon a bear?


----------



## Leon big boy

Well, he is a dog, but surely a big dog.

I suspect that he is nearly 130 lbs. 

They most important for me that hes a Very good friend, calm and Very loyal.

For me seems that he has the medium size of a Wolf in Nature, dont you think so?


----------



## Leon big boy

Look at the size and beauty of Bárbara, 4 months!
Gonna be Giant girl dont you think so?


----------



## Nurse Bishop

Now I have read it. You bred these two on purpose? My God, why?


----------



## Leon big boy

Nurse Bishop said:


> Now I have read it. You bred these two on purpose? My God, why?


My parents and other relatives ask me for puppies from them. I gave one to my uncles but my parents gone to live in Portugal so I sold the rest for people who really care about them. They usualy send me photos from their puppies and I did post some here.


----------



## Nurse Bishop

My German Shepherd bitch is the best dog I've have ever had in my life too but I'm not going to breed her. Have you had a DNA analysis done on this dog? He looks like a cross with a livestock herding breed.


----------



## Leon big boy

Nurse Bishop said:


> My German Shepherd bitch is the best dog I've have ever had in my life too but I'm not going to breed her. Have you had a DNA analysis done on this dog? He looks like a cross with a livestock herding breed.


No, i didnt. I think he has some bloodline from Serra da Estrela dog, that is a breed from big mountain Shepherds in Portugal.

I got Leon from Rio and there is a big portuguese colony here.

This link you imagens from these dogs and you can see. Its usual to tem reach over to 100-120 pounds.

We already discuss this on this thread.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Nurse Bishop said:
> 
> 
> 
> My German Shepherd bitch is the best dog I've have ever had in my life too but I'm not going to breed her. Have you had a DNA analysis done on this dog? He looks like a cross with a livestock herding breed.
> 
> 
> 
> No, i didnt. I think he has some bloodline from Serra da Estrela dog, that is a breed from big mountain Shepherds in Portugal.
> 
> I got Leon from Rio and there is a big portuguese colony here.
> 
> This link you imagens from these dogs and you can see. Its usual to tem reach over to 100-120 pounds.
> 
> We already discuss this on this thread.
Click to expand...

There's no way to tell for sure unless DNA tested, but i definitely think he is a Serra da Estrela German Shepherd mix Looks like Leon and Lady had fun!!


----------



## Nurse Bishop

Leon and Lady had fun? I don't think birth of oversize unknown breed puppies was fun.


----------



## wolfy dog

This topic had been discussed extensively already. The pups are here and seem to be doing well. A potential next litter may not be as lucky.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

wolfy dog said:


> This topic had been discussed extensively already. The pups are here and seem to be doing well. A potential next litter may not be as lucky.


Probably more than potential....
They are still intact. Lady will probably be bred again and too soon would be my guess. I would say he did breed them on purpose since he had plenty of great advice to spay Lady immedietly after the deed. Yet still playing ignorance... I don't understand why "bigger" = better in Brazil. I'd prefer a smaller more compact agile dog personally. I hope they don't have any major health issues as they grow older.


----------



## Nigel

Lol, bigger = better is not exclusive to Brazil, it is a common North American phenomenon too.


----------



## Sabis mom

Nigel said:


> Lol, bigger = better is not exclusive to Brazil, it is a common North American phenomenon too.


I always thought it was a guy thing, based on the trucks I see being driven around>


----------



## MishkasMom

Come on give me a break with all the criticism, guy loves his dogs, they look happy and well taken care of, they enjoy life most of our city dogs can only dream of. They run free in beautiful mountains, aren't crated 8 hours a day, don't have to wear prongs or being zapped with e-collars. So they bred (which is a natural thing and neutering/spaying isn't) and the puppies are big and not pure GSD, big deal, he was responsible, found loving homes for the pups and brought happiness to the new owners. His dogs seems well adjusted and without the health problems so prevalent in North America (allergies, cancers, behaviour problems we see here even in well bred pure dogs), let him be and I for one always enjoy the pictures he posts. So thanks for sharing.


----------



## Leon big boy

Sabis mom said:


> I always thought it was a guy thing, based on the trucks I see being driven around>


Guys, thanks for tour concern. I dont think bigger is better. I admire Leon not by his size, what is his feature, me and him have no guilty for that, but ALL that makes him such he is. God gave me a Lovely dog, calm and sweet personality. Funny to see him so big, I admit, but that is a Minor feature from ALL. Lady is Lovely as the same way. Strong personality, much more clever and healthy as typical from girls :grin2:

I think that if i was one of them i would enjoy the life that i give to them too. Good food, almost always Free, Nice places to walk in my propierty and beatifull walks to the mountains too.

I wish to thank you ALL for your precious advises and opinions and for your concerns that are always in my mind too! Thanks :wink2:


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

MishkasMom said:


> Come on give me a break with all the criticism, guy loves his dogs, they look happy and well taken care of, they enjoy life most of our city dogs can only dream of. They run free in beautiful mountains, aren't crated 8 hours a day, don't have to wear prongs or being zapped with e-collars. So they bred (which is a natural thing and neutering/spaying isn't) and the puppies are big and not pure GSD, big deal, he was responsible, found loving homes for the pups and brought happiness to the new owners. His dogs seems well adjusted and without the health problems so prevalent in North America (allergies, cancers, behaviour problems we see here even in well bred pure dogs), let him be and I for one always enjoy the pictures he posts. So thanks for sharing.


I wish I saw more people as happy with their dogs, who spend so much time enjoying their dogs, and dogs that are well behaved, have plenty of off leash time, and are happy.


----------



## Benjaminb

Nurse Bishop said:


> Leon and Lady had fun? I don't think birth of oversize unknown breed puppies was fun.


Umm, actually i was saying that about them taking a walk.......i think you knew what i meant.


----------



## ksotto333

Thanks for sharing more pictures of your life with your dogs. Such a beautiful place to live.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl

MishkasMom said:


> Come on give me a break with all the criticism, guy loves his dogs, they look happy and well taken care of, they enjoy life most of our city dogs can only dream of. They run free in beautiful mountains, aren't crated 8 hours a day, don't have to wear prongs or being zapped with e-collars. So they bred (which is a natural thing and neutering/spaying isn't) and the puppies are big and not pure GSD, big deal, he was responsible, found loving homes for the pups and brought happiness to the new owners. His dogs seems well adjusted and without the health problems so prevalent in North America (allergies, cancers, behaviour problems we see here even in well bred pure dogs), let him be and I for one always enjoy the pictures he posts. So thanks for sharing.


Pretty much my thoughts too. 

Worse stuff going on in the world


----------



## Nigel

MishkasMom said:


> Come on give me a break with all the criticism, guy loves his dogs, they look happy and well taken care of, they enjoy life most of our city dogs can only dream of. They run free in beautiful mountains, aren't crated 8 hours a day, don't have to wear prongs or being zapped with e-collars. So they bred (which is a natural thing and neutering/spaying isn't) and the puppies are big and not pure GSD, big deal, he was responsible, found loving homes for the pups and brought happiness to the new owners. His dogs seems well adjusted and without the health problems so prevalent in North America (allergies, cancers, behaviour problems we see here even in well bred pure dogs), let him be and I for one always enjoy the pictures he posts. So thanks for sharing.





Nigel said:


> Lol, bigger = better is not exclusive to Brazil, it is a common North American phenomenon too.


I realised after seeing your post and re-reading mine how it could be seen as being critical of the op and in no way did I mean for it to sound this way. I meant to address only the implication of people wanting oversized gsds being specific to one country. My appologies if it was taken the wrong way.

I grew up outside the U.S and did not come to reside here until I was in my twenties. People need to realise not everyone thinks or does as we do here in North America and that is perfectly ok. The OP does appear to care for his dogs a great deal and provides them with all they need and more. Some dogs here could be so lucky.


----------



## Muskeg

Agree. Also, most intact bitches do seem to very much enjoy being mothers, in my experience.

Not promoting excess and random breeding, but these dogs have it good by any standards.


----------



## Leon big boy

Nigel said:


> I realised after seeing your post and re-reading mine how it could be seen as being critical of the op and in no way did I mean for it to sound this way. I meant to address only the implication of people wanting oversized gsds being specific to one country. My appologies if it was taken the wrong way.
> 
> I grew up outside the U.S and did not come to reside here until I was in my twenties. People need to realise not everyone thinks or does as we do here in North America and that is perfectly ok. The OP does appear to care for his dogs a great deal and provides them with all they need and more. Some dogs here could be so lucky.


Fellow, no need of any appologies I think. People as you are just saying their concerns and giving opinions. Some jokes are funny too, I dont think there is nothing wrong as I saw not disrespect, just different points of view.

Lady is a young and helthy bitch and was lovely to see wow perfectley she took care from her litter. I agree that this natural behaviour sureley is very good and healthy for her. Its life.
As I sad before, I advise the owners that they can bring the puppies back any time and get back their cost, so I'm not afraid that they can be abandoned or bad care. Until now there is only hapiness and enjoy from the pups and their owners.

Maybe Im getting luck for now, but life is always a controlled (at our limits) risk and the most important is that I do wath I can and I think we all are doing better for now.

Nice to see that folks here enjoy to see the pictures from dogs run free in the nature and streets, perfectly socialized to interact with other peoples and their dogs with balanced and good behaviour. Leon and lady make me proud as make people admire them for that and see how smart and adjusted they are, and not the beasts that some people think for the breed.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline

Isn't that the truth? So many people try to make these dogs out to be some kind of wild and out of control beasts. I nurture mine similar to the way you do and we enjoy life and off leash time too.


----------



## Leon big boy

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Isn't that the truth? So many people try to make these dogs out to be some kind of wild and out of control beasts. I nurture mine similar to the way you do and we enjoy life and off leash time too.


Yep. People are so afraid that they think that making wild beasts to treath others make them feel safe. Dogs in constant stress and waisting their lives for their owners unbalanced mind. Dogs can take very good care of their houses just by their natural protection instint. Its very sad. I agree with you.


----------



## Sabis mom

MishkasMom said:


> Come on give me a break with all the criticism, guy loves his dogs, they look happy and well taken care of, they enjoy life most of our city dogs can only dream of. They run free in beautiful mountains, aren't crated 8 hours a day, don't have to wear prongs or being zapped with e-collars. So they bred (which is a natural thing and neutering/spaying isn't) and the puppies are big and not pure GSD, big deal, he was responsible, found loving homes for the pups and brought happiness to the new owners. His dogs seems well adjusted and without the health problems so prevalent in North America (allergies, cancers, behaviour problems we see here even in well bred pure dogs), let him be and I for one always enjoy the pictures he posts. So thanks for sharing.


Umm.. I was just cracking a joke. Lighten up a bit.

We've talked at length about these dogs and I readily conceded that I don't condone some of the actions but the dogs are beautiful and clearly loved and cared for, which is better then many dogs get. If you go back through the whole thread you will see the entire discussion. The OP is fine with it and a few pages back we had quite the discussion about what Leon actually might be and about the fact that money would be better spent checking his hips, due to his size, then on a DNA test. Because really, whatever he is he is loved.


----------



## Leon big boy

Hey guys, i taken this pics from Leon and Lady eating and i got one from above for you to Tell if you think he is in good shape or a little fat.

I know its a bit difficult by his coat but what do you think?


----------



## Leon big boy

Artemis, 5 months next week.


----------



## Leon big boy

Kiara, almost 5 months.


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Artemis, 5 months next week.


Well, would ya look at that. Artemis got lady's erect ears! I figured that they would all be floppy like Leon's. Great lookin dog!!


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Kiara, almost 5 months.


Looks like Kiara got erect ears too!! Beautiful dog!


----------



## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> Hey guys, i taken this pics from Leon and Lady eating and i got one from above for you to Tell if you think he is in good shape or a little fat.
> 
> I know its a bit difficult by his coat but what do you think?


Is there a particular reason you are worried about it? He look quite healthy to me!


----------



## Leon big boy

Benjaminb said:


> Is there a particular reason you are worried about it? He look quite healthy to me!


Yes my friend. I give him the same food amount that I give to Lady so its bit difficult to me understand that sometimes he looks to me a bit heavy. Im not sure if is by his long coat or his mussels but sometimes I look at him and he seems ok and other seems a bit overweighted.

I think thats a doubt of every owner and I think that getting some opinions here may help to take a reference instead of just the classical ribs method.

Thanks for your return! :wink2:


----------



## KaiserAus

Leon big boy said:


> Yes my friend. I give him the same food amount that I give to Lady so its bit difficult to me understand that sometimes he looks to me a bit heavy. Im not sure if is by his long coat or his mussels but sometimes I look at him and he seems ok and other seems a bit overweighted.
> 
> I think thats a doubt of every owner and I think that getting some opinions here may help to take a reference instead of just the classical ribs method.
> 
> Thanks for your return! :wink2:


Could he be eating her food? Or could he be getting extra food from somewhere else?


----------



## wolfy dog

The picture where Leon is standing, eating shows a large belly. In that picture he looks too heavy to me. IN the other pictures it is harder to tell. I do think Lady is too heavy. 
What brand do you feed? I would stay with them when they eat and not allow to eat each others food.


----------



## clipke

My dogs eat out of each others bowls. I let them graze, but they both eat until full regardless, so you may be dealing with a similar situation but Leon may just be hogging all of the food entirely.


----------



## Leon big boy

Another great day in the mountain. A little Green friend enter into my bedroom also to wake me up!


----------



## Leon big boy

my neighbor sent me these photos because her bitch is in heat and Leon was there to give a check!


----------



## Leon big boy

Artemis, 5 months, 47lbs, say her owner.


----------



## wolfy dog

I admit to taking the bait: so I guess we'll hear about new puppies in a few months?


----------



## konathegsd

Leon big boy said:


> my neighbor sent me these photos because her bitch is in heat and Leon was there to give a check!


So you’re breeding again


----------



## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> I admit to taking the bait: so I guess we'll hear about new puppies in a few months?


Who knows Fellow? Lady was in Heat a couple of weeks but i didnt saw if they breed. Im usually dont worry about that but i let you know. Shes in perfect health and that is the most important to me.


----------



## Leon big boy

konathegsd said:


> So you’re breeding again


No, Leon didnt enter in their propierty to breed. They have Other dogs and they didnt let Leon Go there.


----------



## wolfy dog

Lady is probably already pregnant by reading between the lines.


----------



## GandalfTheShepherd

Naw but it's all good they are super happy!!!!


----------



## Fodder

Leon big boy said:


> Who knows Fellow? Lady was in Heat a couple of weeks but i didnt saw if they breed. Im usually dont worry about that but i let you know. Shes in perfect health and that is the most important to me.


Her health won’t last if she’s continuously bred back to back.


----------



## Leon big boy

Everytime i takes Leon to the top he thanks me with a Kiss. Good boy!

PS Lady is finishing her Heat what makes her a bit more nervous. I Will taken her next time.


----------



## Leon big boy

Here is Lady, for those who miss her beauty!

Ps: not so happy because i had to keep It at the Kennel a few days as she was in Heat but now thats over and i Will unleash her again.


----------



## Leon big boy

Other Nice cloudy walk.


----------



## Leon big boy

​Artemis and her folks! 5 months.


----------



## Mfilbert18

Leon big boy said:


> Well, he is a dog, but surely a big dog.
> 
> I suspect that he is nearly 130 lbs.
> 
> They most important for me that hes a Very good friend, calm and Very loyal.
> 
> For me seems that he has the medium size of a Wolf in Nature, dont you think so?


I think so! I keep laughing about him being a bear.. How much does he weigh? My puppy is 8 months old and he is a big boy. I feel he is going to be massive


----------



## Leon big boy

Mfilbert18 said:


> I think so! I keep laughing about him being a bear.. How much does he weigh? My puppy is 8 months old and he is a big boy. I feel he is going to be massive


Beatifull pup! No doubt abaout that! Seems Very similar to Leon at 8 months too. He was 82 lbs.
Here is a picture at that age with my kids.

Congratulations for you big and pretty boy!


----------



## Leon big boy

Kira, 6 months.


----------



## Benjaminb

Good lookin dog!


----------



## Leon big boy

Another big day with my good friend.


----------



## Leon big boy

Kira. Almost 8 months old. Pretty much like Lady but bigger, dont you think so?


----------



## Mrkswfe

She is very beautiful, they all are , did u ever get a dna ? Here are my shepards , my males ears are floppy too , but .... I got him at 11 months , the lady I rescued him from let her very over weight and large 4 year old ride him like a horse he used his ears to hold onto , I got his breeder info , contacted them for pedagree and papers , here In the states it seems it doesn't matter how much ppl pay for a dog they can still be miss treated , don't matter weather they are pure or not dozer was 800 and 1500 with his papers , and was still abused , he doesn't have a mean bone in his body , his bark is all that sounds viscous , he can stand his ears when he wants , and my female bella at 5 months , then my mix , that seems to be bad here but I love her so I don't care I was lied to and bought her paid 800 and I'm not sure what she is mom was Shepard she is small at 7 months about 30 lbs , I'm gonna dna test her to see what she is , I was told by our vet lab Shepard pit but shes so little idk


----------



## Mrkswfe

More pics


----------



## Dionne2u

Leon big boy said:


> Kira. Almost 8 months old. Pretty much like Lady but bigger, dont you think so?


She is beautiful!!! Love seeing the hiking photos too and glad you take your doggies with you. We visit Ecuador and Columbia at least once a year for 2 months, wish o could bring my puppies and hike with them there too. South America is so beautiful!


----------



## Dionne2u

Mrkswfe said:


> lady I rescued him from let her very over weight and large 4 year old ride him like a horse he used his ears to hold onto


That woman should be slapped and road herself! Infuriates me the abuse people can do to something so gentle.


----------



## Mrkswfe

Me too , he is very happy here


----------



## Mei

Mrkswfe said:


> Me too , he is very happy here


Wow, good for you to rescue him! He looks like a gentle wise giant. Thanks for giving him a good home!


----------



## Mrkswfe

He is overly friendly , lol and a big goofy mess , in true need of obedience training as he had no work at all besides house breaking , so that's next, he is definitely my baby!!


----------



## Dionne2u

Mrkswfe said:


> He is overly friendly , lol and a big goofy mess , in true need of obedience training as he had no work at all besides house breaking , so that's next, he is definitely my baby!!


Makes me smile to know he has a good home now and i know he does too! He sounds like my Hoffnung, well until i strap his service vest on, then he is Mr. Professional and all goofy leaves out only to return once he is unvested.


----------



## Mrkswfe

I love when they sleep like this Mary Jane 7 months and bella 5 months


----------



## Leon big boy

Golden and Wolf. Lady and Leon pups. Golden seems a beatifull female to me. They até 10 months.


----------



## ksotto333

They are growing up so quickly. They look like they could be my girls cousins.


----------



## Benjaminb

Nice lookin' Dogs!


----------



## tim_s_adams

Beautiful dogs! Not purebred, temperment not according or even similar to standard, but pretty none the less...

The question is, do you like German Shepherds enough to care, or will you breed these dogs again just because their puppies are pretty???


----------



## Leon big boy

tim_s_adams said:


> Beautiful dogs! Not purebred, temperment not according or even similar to standard, but pretty none the less...
> 
> The question is, do you like German Shepherds enough to care, or will you breed these dogs again just because their puppies are pretty???


Good question Tim. See, im not a breeder but um Very happy to ser How people really love and are so happy with these cuties. I always concern about that and decide not to give them because people tend to dont Care so much If its Free, but Golden i pratically Gave her because her owner, even a people with not such good conditions in Money but i could see her love for this pretty girl and she almost cry for ask to this baby. I really satisfied to see How people love this dogs. They always ask me about their heatlh and foi and sendo photos to me. Im really happy to see people so happy.

See, she breeds Golden at her bed. Thats more prove of love them tath?


----------



## Leon big boy

Golden and Kira. 11 months.


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## Leon big boy

Another Child. This is from the son that Gave for his mother because she was Sad as her ex-husband took her last dog. They love this baby, of course.

Six months ago and now, 11 months.


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## Leon big boy

People, I think that maybe Lady is pregnant. Im not sure yet. In some weeks i Will now. Shes beatifull and excellent shape!


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## Leon big boy

Masha, 11 months. Big, Beatifull and gentle girl!
Shes the biggest Child. Her owner loves her and say shes very good protection.


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## wolfy dog

Leon big boy said:


> People, I think that maybe Lady is pregnant.


Why doesn't this surprise me? Why did you take the chance?


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## Leon big boy

wolfy dog said:


> Why doesn't this surprise me? Why did you take the chance?


Wolfy, Lady loved to get the litter. She was a bit more nervous but after the litter shes much more balanced and mature. I tought thats a good experience for her and shes very heathy and sureley Will makes people Very happy too. I talk to the owners of the last litter and they Stilo send me pictures and are Very happy. No one bring back the dog, despite I offer ter back their investment. I think its Very Nice for her and Leon too and make people happy. These dogs are helping people, protection, and are loved, What is the most important to me.


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## Leon big boy

See Masha. I think you can see that her owner is special. Her smiles and happiness thats ALL for me and Masha is Very kind (as Leon) and good protection so im Very happy too.


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## Jenny720

The people that do not want to improve on them selves, sadly convince themselves that their irresponsible and selfish actions are for the greater good - then they have the audacity to then try to sell it to others. If you need the money or are at least honest with yourself it may do you some good.


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## Leon big boy

Money? I dont need money from them. I sell because in our country people tend to do more value to things for what they spend some money. If its Free many people take It but its not the same Care. The investiment from the owners not even pay Leon and Lady food! Sorry, but you are wrong.


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## Leon big boy

This is Lady Wolf, one year old.


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## Mei

Leon big boy said:


> This is Lady Wolf, one year old.


She looks great and full of curiosity!


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## Leon big boy

Mei said:


> She looks great and full of curiosity!


Mei, as you like her curiosity, this picture is for you! :grin2:


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## wolfy dog

I have to be honest; I don't really agree with your breeding practices but the pups look really nice.


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## Leon big boy

Here you got some pictures to remember these little treasures! :grin2:


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## Leon big boy

Kira. Her owner says she is his daugther.


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## Leon big boy

Guys, I'm a little surprised at my Lady's ability to communicate. For example, because of the cold, I put her to nurse the puppies in the house but we left the door open for her to go to the garden to make her needs. If Lady found the door closed, go to my wife and makes a sign with her muzzle calling her to follow her. Then she go to the door and point the muzzle at the door, asking to open it. In another case, when she is hungry, she goes to my wife and pass her tongue licking your mouth signaling that she want to eat. So, she makes expressions to communicate with us, instead of just bark as Leon. Leon does not adopt gestures or expressions, he just barks. Its normal such a disparity in a dog's ability to communicate? Lady never barks to us. It seems she understands that this is not our language so she makes expressions with her face and eyes or signals with her muzzle. What do you think? By the way, she had 5 males and one female, perfect puppies.


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## Mei

Sounds like Lady is polite and needs to teach Leon some manners lol!


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## Leon big boy

Mei said:


> Sounds like Lady is polite and needs to teach Leon some manners lol!



Thats the point Mei! Are females usually more clever than males?


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## car2ner

Females are not always more clever than males, just tend to be different. In general I'd say that females stick closer to family. Males once they know everyone is fine, don't mind a little distance. Maybe they are protecting that way, maybe they just like the peace and quiet. So if your pair is like this it seems Lady has watch the family's behavior a bit more than Leon.


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## Leon big boy

Kira, one year old.


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## Leon big boy

Hey guys, I know you guys don't agree with my breeding practices but I brought some pics for you. please dont take that as a provocation, it's just for those who would like to see them.
The second one is a female. They are 25 days old.


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## Saco

They are very cute with nice markings. Also look healthy and clean.

As to breeding practices, as long as these pups are going to good homes, where they are loved and cared for, and if you take back any pup at any time, and you're not producing pups with serious health and behavioral problems... meh. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I've always liked Lady. She is one of those dogs that seems to have an old soul.


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## Leon big boy

Saco, lady never had any mark. Leon had but disappeared before he was one year old. I believe that the marks are caused by some small miscegenation of races, and so he seems to deviate somewhat from the pattern. But he is a beautiful dog and with a great temperament and I think he contributed with his characteristics, because those that have marks tend to be bigger and more beautiful too, at least in my humble opinion. Another aspect that worried me also is the hips dysplasia because it is so big and heavy, but even then, I believe that some miscegenation may have contributed positively, since it does not show any signs of problems in this area. About the pups, they are cutties but also very funny playing all the time too!:grin2:


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## Jenny720

They are beautiful pups and wishing them the best and happiest life.


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## Leon big boy

https://www.facebook.com/elizeu.calegari.3/videos/295228504721662/
4 weeks old today


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## Leon big boy

This is pups are growing fast, dont you think so? :smile2:


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## Leon big boy

Lady beautiful as ever.


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## Mei

Awesome, congrats! Little fluff balls.


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## Kennaandkurama

Did you take any precautions to breeding them or did you just breed them? I see this isn’t your 1st litter either. What was the point of breeding? Cute pups surely but you may have contributed to the many many poorly bred shepherds that go against what true breeders work so hard for.


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## MineAreWorkingline

Your puppies are very cute. Nice pictures! Lady looks good. Do the puppies and Lady have a soft surface to lay on? Or is it hot there and they are looking for cool surfaces?


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## LuvShepherds

@Kennaandkurama Go back and read the 30 pages already posted. He lives in a country where healthy, purebred puppies are not plentiful and has people waiting for German Shepherds with solid temperaments for pets. There would be no need to breed pet dogs in the US without other reasons, but given the circumstances, I don’t criticize him at all.


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## Leon big boy

Yeah, I think you got it. I have many people who are already asking for these puppies. It is very difficult for me to let them go, for they are loved by me and my family, but I will certainly select the best possible owners for them. These dogs have an excellent temperament, very protective, obedient, intelligent and certainly will love, protect and take good care of their owners. They are not stupid and ferocious animals. I can now see that they have the temperament of their parents that is tolerance, obedience, but also with the aggressiveness and protection needed when they need it. They even so little already obey me when I speak to them. It's impressive. I do not know if they observe the behavior of the mother, but the fact is that they already demonstrate intelligence and a balanced temperament.





LuvShepherds said:


> @Kennaandkurama Go back and read the 30 pages already posted. He lives in a country where healthy, purebred puppies are not plentiful and has people
> waiting for German Shepherds with solid temperaments for pets. There would be no need to breed pet dogs in the US without other reasons, but given the circumstances, I don’t criticize him at all.


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## Leon big boy

Its a bit hot for now. 28 ºC today. They have enough space to play each other and stay with Lady. Soon I will let they go out. Maybe next week.



MineAreWorkingline said:


> Your puppies are very cute. Nice pictures! Lady looks good. Do the puppies and Lady have a soft surface to lay on? Or is it hot there and they are looking for cool surfaces?


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## LuvShepherds

The parents seem to have excellent temperaments. The breed is supposed to be naturally protective and show some aggression at the right times. Young puppies don’t have it. It’s a mature trait that shows up later, but based on your previous litter, the new puppies should be very similar.


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## Kennaandkurama

I was in no way attacking I was just wondering. I did not know he was out of the us, or if he was breeding them just to breed them. But what he’s doing is making sense, as I was just asking why.


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## Leon big boy

Kennaandkurama said:


> I was in no way attacking I was just wondering. I did not know he was out of the us, or if he was breeding them just to breed them. But what he’s doing is making sense, as I was just asking why.


I'm from Brazil. And what I'm doing is making people and dogs happy and love and care for each other, . Isnt it wonderful? Its what I do with mine.


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## Kennaandkurama

I see. It’d be a much different story if you were from La and were breeding for money.


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## Leon big boy

Here they are now. 5 weeks old.


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## Leon big boy

This is one of the reasons why I do not want Lady to have more puppies. This is just a dog for god sake! :grin2:


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## wolfy dog

What do you mean? Did something happen?


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## Benjaminb

Leon big boy said:


> This is one of the reasons why I do not want Lady to have more puppies. This is just a dog for god sake! /forum/images/Germanshepherds_2016/smilies/tango_face_grin.png


 What happened to make you say that? BTW swearing is not allowed on this board.


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## Heartandsoul

I believe that the op was using sarcasm and as a joke. I believe that the misunderstanding is due to the huge difference in culture reguarding breeding practices. The sad thing is is that there are so many puppy mills here where the attitude of "it's just a dog" is very real. The sad thing is is that in Brazil there is a very real issue with street dogs and the attitude "it's just a dog". 

With the picture of his pup. I interpreted it as: The cuteness of the pup is reason to allow Lady to breed.

cultural differences and sensitivity needs to be a two way street imho.


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## Jenny720

I have not ever seen an ugly puppy. So puppy cuteness is not a good reason to breed. That kind of thought process is part of the problem that results in over population of homeless dogs, regardless where one lives.


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## Leon big boy

Heartandsoul said:


> I believe that the op was using sarcasm and as a joke. I believe that the misunderstanding is due to the huge difference in culture reguarding breeding practices. The sad thing is is that there are so many puppy mills here where the attitude of "it's just a dog" is very real. The sad thing is is that in Brazil there is a very real issue with street dogs and the attitude "it's just a dog".
> 
> With the picture of his pup. I interpreted it as: The cuteness of the pup is reason to allow Lady to breed.
> 
> cultural differences and sensitivity needs to be a two way street imho.


Yes, I was just joking. You're right. Lady does not have to raise cute puppies to have the right to raise them. People are loving and caring for these dogs, as I do mine. They thank me all the time for their happiness. Doesnt this feeling make sense to you? Yes I agree. Maybe they should get dogs from the street but if I decided to get a shepherd from someone who created them, why would I feel entitled to judge them for it? 

[POLITICAL DISCUSSION REMOVED]


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## dogma13

We aren't allowed to discuss government and politics on this board.Your post will probably be removed Leon big boy.Let's all try to be sensitive to cultural differences we have.


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## Heartandsoul

Leon big boy said:


> Yes, I was just joking. You're right. Lady does not have to raise cute puppies to have the right to raise them. People are loving and caring for these dogs, as I do mine. They thank me all the time for their happiness. Doesnt this feeling make sense to you? Yes I agree. Maybe they should get dogs from the street but if I decided to get a shepherd from someone who created them, why would I feel entitled to judge them for it?
> 
> .


Leon big boy, I was not judging in any way and am puzzled by the inference of our government. The rules of the board do not allow any political discussion at all. It is a strict rule so I can't go any further than that reguarding your views.

But I believe you misjudged why I said what I said.

A few pages back you posted pics of this litter with a statement that you were doing so because you thought others would like to see them and you were not trying to cause issues. What you said was a really good example of being sensitive to our culture and feelings and it was said honestly. This is a good thing. Then when I read your last post, it just hit a nerve. And then I wondered how you could say such a nice thing and then make a joke that did not show sensitivity and seemed to jab for controversy. I became sad. I thought of our problems here and your problems there and it is the same problem stemming from "it's just a dog" attitude. I believed that your attempt at humor meant no harm but that you had not given thought to the impact it would have. 

While writing this it just dawned on me that you may have thought that I was implying that you are a puppy mill. If what I just realized is what you thought, please believe me that was not my intent whatsoever. I would not have used those words nor would I accuse you of such a thing. Nor do I think that.

I will leave it at this, we do have a problem with very large breeders who take on the attitude that a dog is just a dog. I was bridging our two countries with a common problem.

Our country has many good qualities as does yours and that topic should never have been brought up here. Sometimes nerves get frayed. 

This is as diplomatic and honest as I can be without back peddling how I feel.

My best wishes to your puppies for a happy life, I'm sure you will make certain that happens.


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## WIBackpacker

This thread has been re-opened, but if it veers into politics again it will be closed.


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## Leon big boy

Ok Heartandsoul. I think I too exaggerated in my settings. I'm not anti-American, on the contrary. But I have reservations about some aspects that I regret to have addressed here since the forum does not allow for an approach at this level, which I agree with and will accept from now on. They are different cultures and the important thing is the respect and the cordiality that despite the mishaps has stood out over the past times. I just have to thank the participants of the forum. I have learned a lot of valuable things here and thank everyone for their contributions. The criticisms are also observed and I have reflected on them, even though it may seem that I ignore them, but I think about them, mainly because I know that the intention is the well being of my dogs, which is nothing to throw away. :wink2:


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## Leon big boy

The only female. 6 weeks old and 2 weeks ago. Very friendly. Seems more like Lady or Leon?


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## Leon big boy

Artemis, now and about one year ago.


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## Leon big boy

Hey people, as you see Leon puppies now, You still think that he can be not a GSD as we have talked about some time ago or you change some what?


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## dogma13

I'm still thinking Estrela Mountain Dog/GSD mix


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## tim_s_adams

Leon is not and never will be a purebred GSD! So the puppies you're producing, while they are great looking and all, will never be purebred. What bothers me personally about this is that the "appear" close enough to a purebred GSD that they can be passed off as though they are...


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## Leon big boy

dogma13 said:


> I'm still thinking Estrela Mountain Dog/GSD mix


I'm glad you still remember the great discussions we had on this topic. That's why I think I'm a bit addicted to this forum. The people and the talk are great. Much knowledge, history and experience involved, it was always very enjoyable to know everyone's opinions. I undestand that my breeding pratices dont have the approval of many here in the forum and I begin to reach the conclusion that you are right. It's a lot of work involved, a lot of responsibility and I already have my occupations. It was very nice as I like to much to see them having this nature experience and the pups are very nice and funny too, but I'm seriously considering disabling the couple. Or maybe at least one of them.


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## Leon big boy

tim_s_adams said:


> Leon is not and never will be a purebred GSD! So the puppies you're producing, while they are great looking and all, will never be purebred. What bothers me personally about this is that the "appear" close enough to a purebred GSD that they can be passed off as though they are...


I undestand you. Well, I always show the parents pictures and people always see them before they get the puppies, but of course that this doesnt make them purebred. I think people do care much more about dogs health and temperament that this purebred thing. Thay want a GSD, but doesnt seem that they are worried if is a 90% or 99% GSD. Them seem very happy and are taking good care os the dogs and always send me pictures from them. I think that is enough for me until here, as I want them to stop breeding.


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## car2ner

Leon big boy said:


> I undestand you. Well, I always show the parents pictures and people always see them before they get the puppies, but of course that this doesnt make them purebred. I think people do care much more about dogs health and temperament that this purebred thing. Thay want a GSD, but doesnt seem that they are worried if is a 90% or 99% GSD. Them seem very happy and are taking good care os the dogs and always send me pictures from them. I think that is enough for me until here, as I want them to stop breeding.



What I really like that you have kept in touch with the folks who brought your pups home. A couple of the best dogs I have ever had were mixes. Recognized pure breeds or not, each litter should be planned for with healthy parents of good temperament, good raising and condition of the pups, and good homes waiting for them.


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## Leon big boy

New owner. A young lady gave the only female to her sister for her birthday. She told me that her sister cry with such happiness. 8 weeks old.


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## Mei

Puppy looks happy! As well as new owner!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## car2ner

adorable


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## Leon big boy

Lord, 3.5 months old. They love him.


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## Elizeu Calegari

deleted.


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