# do they breed showline and working line?



## neupane00 (Mar 7, 2010)

hey do they breed showline male and working line female?? look at this litter due in mid-april. http://www.witmertyson.com/german_shepherds/litters Do they look like male is showline and female is working line? Is this common practice? How would the offsprings be?


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

there is no link.


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## neupane00 (Mar 7, 2010)

sorry posted the link now


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes, that appears to be a show/working line cross. This sort of thing does happen though it isn't very common as the results when breeding 2 dogs of vastly different bloodlines, physical and mental traits, is typically very unpredictable and produces pups ranging all over the place in terms of temperament and looks. The goal is generally to get some sort of a "golden middle" product, but rarely does it work that way. Some pups might be as desired, but the majority of the litter is usually very inconsistent. But of course, whether it works or not comes down in large part to the knowledge of the breeder and the thought put into the breeding and this is a breeder more knowledgeable and experienced than most who would try such a cross.


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## GSD-DSG (Nov 3, 2007)

I have not seen a litter that was inconsistent in the type predicted when using a combination of different bloodlines. What I have seen are puppies that 'could' be shown and can do the work. The puppies may not be the top of the conformation rings, but the structure is not bad. More often than not , the structure is better than bloodlines bred specifically for the working drives. 

I will compliment those who are combining structure with drive. There must be a happy medium for this breed. There is only one German Shepherd Dog breed and it is worth a try for those who have knowledge in all bloodline types to try to make advances in this breed.

Breed advances are not made over night. They are made over time and it is up to those who are knowledgeable to try to make the difference.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

This appears to be a very calculated breeding. Actually, it is a repeat breeding. Repeats are usually done by good breeders based on liking what was produced in first litter. Also, I donot think that Gita is all workinglines. She appears to me to be mostly showlines with working mixed in or half working and half show. (Can't find her pedigree) Either way this would make the litter 3/4 showline at least and should be some consistency of type. Witmer Kennels are one of the more knowledgable breeders in the country and have been for many many years.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Gita

SG Gita Stary Skaut pedigree information - German shepherd dog

good call


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Thanks, Samba, she appeared to me to be at least half Showline. If I wanted a showline dog this would be a breeding I would consider.JMO


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Stark is a product of a WL and SL cross.

His sire is a working line dog while his mother is showline. I only considered this breeding specifically because it was a repeat breeding.

I could see the pups/dogs from the previous litter (they were 2) and what they were able to accomplish. I was IMPRESSED.

Although, looks is important to me, it is not as important as the ability to work (in whichever venue I and the dog choose), but I also wanted a dog with a more mild drive than some of the dogs my breeder inparticular had. I knew that this being *my* first dog (on my own anyways) and my lifestyle, that this pairing would work for me.

The first litter I think produced some very high and medium drive dogs - definitely no couch potatoes in there. All have great structure (at least I think so) and are great dogs in general.

Stark's litter (the second breeding) seems to be about even in drive, temperament and all have good structure at this point and time (they are almost 1 year old - april 10). I am extremely happy with Stark and I know the other owners are too.

I wouldn't consider a "crossed breeding" unless the breeder REALLY knew what they were after and knew the bloodlines being crossed and it was carefully thought out and planned.

In my situation, it worked out and I am extremely happy with it.

Now, will my next dog be a "cross", probably not. I now know what I can handle and think that a working line would be a good match for me too.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm not a breeder but I'm OK with crosses and breeders doing it as long as they had a reason in mind (other than simply that those were the two dogs they had at the time, and use them for backyard breeding). There can be a huge range in the litter but luckily as apparent by many threads on this board there is a huge range of what puppy buyers are looking for. The only thing to really lose is the _breeder _not producing what they'd hoped to get from the cross, but if they are willing to put in all the effort and take that risk, that's up to them. Also like GSD-DSG was saying, I have not seen any more variation in litters of crosses than litters of the same type, in fact I am consistently astounded by the amount of variation that can be produced in litters of the same type, even same lines within that type. I used to think crosses was pointless but I've met some progeny from some really interesting crosses and changed my mind.

Also I don't think doing crosses always means someone is trying to improve the structure of working lines. There are a good many working line dogs with far better and more correct structure than many show lines, IMO. And it's not always that the working line is supposed to improve the drive of the show line. There's a gazillion reasons to do a cross, I would not make assumptions about what the breeder was trying to achieve.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Benny is West German Show and Working and I could not be happier. My breeder has been around for 20 years so I think she knows what she is doing. I know nothing but Benny is my second pup from her . I was so happy with Eli that I went back to her after he passed last year. Benny's great grandma was Eli's grandmother.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Just curious... I know there is a lot of this and that about crossing/not crossing wl and sl... but my dog is both, and mostly because a lot of his lines were work and show from what I understand.. and we plan to try our hand at conformation and persue SCH... so ... if we were to ever breed, and continued doing the same.. would they be considered wl/sl cross since they show and work... all in the same dog?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The dog's type depends on the pedigree, not what the dog does. I work and show both of my GSDs, one is a working line and the other is a German show line. The working line actually has more show points than the show line and performs better in the show ring, but the show line is far, far better at Schutzhund than the working line.

If you breed a work/show cross I suspect it would take a few generations of breeding to get back to one type or the other.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We plan on doing it....
Research the bloodlines and combine the attributes each offers. There are those that think it should never be done, and there are those that are having success doing it.
There are alot of opinions on the topic.....


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Yes there are a number of opinions on it. Only the very best can pull it off. Years ago Manfred Heyne tried to cross his herding lines with the West German dogs and it was a disaster. And Manfred Heyne was an outstanding breeder that understood lines and genetics.


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## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

BTW... Robin... when you gonna link your website to something?

Always try to look and always ends up in the same place....


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I might consider a pup that is a cross.

When I say that its like calling the dog a hybrid.lol


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## Nabil (Mar 22, 2010)

I was going through V (BSZS) Javir vom Talka Marda's progeny and I found this really interesting cross with a very famous showline:

Falk vom Wildsteiger Landhaus pedigree information - German shepherd dog

I will leave for the experts to comment. Could this be part of a well calculated program to narrow the gap between the WL and SL?


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