# 11 week old puppy growling when touched while eating



## Kissyperry (Feb 11, 2011)

Grizz will be 11 weeks on Wednesday. A few days ago, while he was at his bowl eating his dinner,hubby walked by and casually ran his hand down Grizz's back. Grizz growled and hunkered down over his bowl. Hubby was surprised and just left him alone after that- then he told me what happened. I have an 11 year old daughter in the house, Grizz is not allowed to be top dog over ANYthing. So the next time I fed him, I casually ran my hand down his back (wondering if maybe hubby startled him, he didn't realize it was a person doing it, maybe thought it was another puppy). Grizz growled when I did it too. I took my hand and grabbed his nape, lifted him maybe an inch off the ground. Did the puppy-scream-like-a-little-girl thing, I didn't jerk him off the ground, I didn't squeeze to hurt, I just held his nape and pulled him off his bowl telling him a sharp no. Put him back down, ran my hand over him again- he looked at me and growled. Did the same thing to his nape again. Then I left him alone to eat. Have done the same thing for the past few days at least once a day when eating. He is now about 60% over the growling, he looks to see who it is and half the time just goes back to eating without growling and a little less than half the time, will growl - if he does growl-after one hold of the top of his neck , he won't growl again and then you can rub him while he's eating all night, no more growls after the first time. So it's working and I will continue doing it this way since it seems like it is effective for him. My question, is that the "correct" way to handle it? Are there other tried and true methods? He only does it over food, not toys, not treats. I understand the puppy "gotta eat my food before another puppy does" and we don't mess with him while he's eating usually (until he growled, that can't happen). I've read up on the NILIF way and we do that pretty much, he sits to go out, he sits to come in, he sits before he eats....he's learning stay before he eats..... so he knows/accepts where he is in the "pack" this is the only issue we've run into. Thanks!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

How old was Grizz when you brought him home?


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Kissyperry said:


> I took my hand and grabbed his nape, lifted him maybe an inch off the ground. Did the puppy-scream-like-a-little-girl thing, I didn't jerk him off the ground, I didn't squeeze to hurt, I just held his nape and pulled him off his bowl telling him a sharp no. Put him back down, ran my hand over him again- he looked at me and growled. Did the same thing to his nape again.


What you did by doing this is give him a BAD experience when you approach him while his eating. Instead you should have had a YUMMY treat on your hand, something he would have liked over his kibble and offered it to him while running your hand on his back. This would have been a positive experience for him and by doing this over and over again he will associate you approaching him while eating as a good thing, not a BAD thing.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

There are negative consequences to extinguishing a growl, BTW. It's the dog's early warning system, a way of expressing displeasure or protest way way before doing anything else.
I don't think I would have been such a H.A. about it. I would have insisted that he allow touching while he was eating but probably more by petting or holding and calmly saying "No".


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Is he well-wormed? I have found this takes some diligence with new pups. A hungry and not free of parasites pup can be protective of valuable food. Recently, I was amazed what it took to clear our new pup of parasites.

Do you know his pedigree? Is the behavior something exhibited by parents or other siblings?


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## Isabella (Apr 27, 2010)

You say he's learning to stay before he eats - does this mean he waits for you to release him before he eats? I always put the bowl down & wait for Rex to look at me & then i say ok.
When he growls do you think you could grab the bowl without him trying to bite - if so i would pick up the bowl, put it down & wait for eye contact again.


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## Kissyperry (Feb 11, 2011)

*wow you answered fast!*

let's see.......yes, he came home early, he was a few days past 6 weeks. His breeder was leaving for ten days and had someone lined up to feed the dogs but I wanted him home rather than just being tossed food. It took me two days of begging but he allowed it. We were home with him for almost a week solid. It could have it's basis in not being with the other siblings for another two weeks I suppose, but that's a done deal and now it needs fixed if that's where it came from. I have a JRT who is his brother now and he puts him immediately back into his place over toys, treats etc. 
Bad experience.....ok, I agree he doesn't like the being held by his nape. As soon as I let go and ran my hands back over him though, he got lots of praise and petting. When he doesn't growl, he gets lots of praise and petting. The growling is lessening each day, like I said, probably 60% is no growl now when petted while eating...he looks, sees, wags his tail and goes back to eating. With the rate he's improving, I'd expect it to be a non issue hopefully by the end of this week. So I really don't think it's a bad experience for him, he has obviously learned to look before growling and thats its better to accept the petting.
As far as taking the bowl, nope- has never growled over that. I've taken it, made him sit and stay and then put it back down for him to eat...Only touching him has produced the growl.
Worming- he was wormed at his first puppy shots, goes for his second set Wed this week- imagine will be checked again. Doesn't seem wormy, has a shine to his coat and his belly matches the rest of him. He gets 4Health lamb and rice, 3 cups a day split into 3 feedings. He'd tell you he's starving ;-)
Met his parents and a full brother. Wasn't around any of them eating, but all seemed non aggressive. Mother wasn't thrilled with strangers around her pups but wasn't mean, just not happy. Brother and father were aloof but not overly so.
Staying for his food- yes, I make him sit, put him in a stay and he waits until I release him to go to his bowl. There's constant eye contact lol, bowl,eyes,bowl,eyes,bowl,eyes until he's released.
Thanks!!!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSDBESTK9 said:


> What you did by doing this is give him a BAD experience when you approach him while his eating. Instead you should have had a YUMMY treat on your hand, something he would have liked over his kibble and offered it to him while running your hand on his back. This would have been a positive experience for him and by doing this over and over again he will associate you approaching him while eating as a good thing, not a BAD thing.


I agree with this. He growled because he had a sneaking suspicion that bad things happened when people mess with him while he's eating. Then you confirmed it. You want to teach him that having you touch and pet him while he eats is a GOOD thing. Occasionally (like a few times a week) go over to him while he's eating and put something extra-tasty in his food. The rest of the time, leave him alone to eat. Some people will continually jack with a dog while he's eating, trying to "desensitize" him, but all it does is stress the dog out and make him suspicious.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

It's not what I would have done... I wouldn't have acted aggressively because he might naturally react aggressively. You might try hand feeding him part of his meal so he knows the food comes from you, and praise him while he's eating nicely and happily out of your hand. Stosh was very grabby when taking treats so I'd tell him 'easy' and only let him eat treats when he took them nicely.


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## Rott-n-GSDs (Jul 7, 2010)

Emoore said:


> Some people will continually jack with a dog while he's eating, trying to "desensitize" him, but all it does is stress the dog out and make him suspicious.


Agreed!!! By constantly messing with him and his food, you are telling him, "when people come near, they're going to take your food away or prevent you from eating. This actually INCREASES food guarding behaviors.

My dogs are all rawfed, and I can take raw steak out of any of their mouths at any time. People have seen this happen (if one dog gets sneaky and steals another dog's food I do take it away and give it back to the original owner) and have asked, "Wow, how did you train your dogs to do that?" The answer, "I didn't mess with them while they were eating!"


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

It's not something I would do either,,you may have gotten rid or getting rid of the growling, BUT, he may not growl and just turn around and nail who ever is messing with him and his food.

I would start HAND feeding him his meals, one piece at a time, and praise for good behavior while doing it..


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I don't agree that messing with food and bowls on a daily basis teaches them to be suspicious. We do a number of things with our dogs and pups from day one to ensure they have ZERO food aggression or stress about us taking food away. This doesn't cause ours to be suspicious, it teaches them that even if food is touched or removed, it will always come back if they are calm about it.

We put hands on the bowl, we pick it up and then immediately praise and put it back down, we put high value treats in the bowl as they eat, we remove bowl, and hand feed high value treats, etc. None of our dogs have ANY food aggression, including Micah who lived in a pen for 2 years and didn't come to me until he was a 2 yr old intact 95 lb male. My dogs will drop a raw bone if told to.


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## Goofy (Sep 27, 2008)

agree 1000000%



JakodaCD OA said:


> It's not something I would do either,,you may have gotten rid or getting rid of the growling, BUT, he may not growl and just turn around and nail who ever is messing with him and his food.
> 
> I would start HAND feeding him his meals, one piece at a time, and praise for good behavior while doing it..


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

If you are worried about your 11 year old daughter being around your dog while he's eating, maybe you could just teach her that it's best to leave a dog alone until he's finished. Seems like good advice for all children, regardless of the dog's temperament.


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## frillint1 (Sep 2, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> If you are worried about your 11 year old daughter being around your dog while he's eating, maybe you could just teach her that it's best to leave a dog alone until he's finished. Seems like good advice for all children, regardless of the dog's temperament.


Yes, but what if someone elses kid comes in or her daughters friends come in and he is eating and who ever decides to pet the dog or stick their hand in his food. It is best to teach him the right thing to do with everyone in the house and not just avoid the issue. I can stick my face, hands, take the food away and so can anyone else. My dog has zero food agression toward anyone. I fed him by hand as he was a puppy and gave him lots of yummy treats.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

IMHO, children and dogs should always be supervised.

I realize that's not always possible, but in addition to the OP dealing with the growling, she should also teach her child to leave the dog alone while it is eating.


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

Kissyperry said:


> let's see.......yes, he came home early, he was a few days past 6 weeks.


Oh boy there's part of the problem - he left his mother and sibs 4 weeks early and never had the opportunity to learn all of the things that puppies learn about pack order, biting, competition etc. Several people have mention it and I totally agree that you should be making this whole experience a pleasurable thing. Instead of punishing and indicating to him that you are going to threaten his food or take something away, give him something. Preferably that something should be a REAL treat like liver, meat, cheese something that represents a real bonus. Give him some time and be patient I think he will come around. Good luck


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would also feed him his meals by hand, praise him when he takes it calmly. He'll get over it within a few meals, but I'd still do it for a week or two, then transition to a bowl. If it were me, I'd also have my daughter hand feed him several times before going to the bowl.


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## Kissyperry (Feb 11, 2011)

*He's been getting MUCH better.*

I've tried rubbing him while eating for the past two days and haven't gotten a growl out of him...had husband and kid do it too, he turns to look and goes back to eating. I think we will take turns and feed him by hand a few times a week also, like some of you suggested. Just as the icing on the cake.
He went for his second set of shots yesterday, I expected him to be a big ole baby and cry when he got his shots. He didn't even whimper! Before going in to the exam room, he was all wagging tail and happy to meet anyone who came over. Did very good sitting when told...After his shots, the vet took him off the table and petted him, he sat nicely and accepted the petting then he handed her his paw ;-) She said he was the best mannered GSD pup she's ever seen there....I said "'yeah, HERE he is-you should see him at home!" jokingly though, he's really a good pup. She told me that ALOT of the GSDs that come in there have to be muzzled for shots, fear biting- so I'm really glad he had a good experience and enjoyed his little visit. He weighed 22.5 lbs at 11 weeks old and his right ear is standing up when he tilts his head, trying to cross over the top of his head other times....have pics but not uploaded yet.....
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm sure I'll have more questions to come!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Take him into the vet for fun visits too. Just for weigh ins and treats....that way he'll continue to be a good pup when going there! Onyx was always great at the vet til she was spayed at 6 months. From then on she became fear aggressive every visit and does have to be muzzled. I don't know what happened during the spay stay, but it must have traumatized her big time.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

Several months ago Dax started growling when someone approached him when he was eating. I started hand feeding him again (sitting on the floor with a cup of food and giving him handfuls, typically waiting for him to sit or lay down calmly before he gets it). In the morning when i didn't have time for hand feeding i'd just *toss* a few really good treats in his bowl while walking by while he was eating. Like chicken pieces cooked in a big batch I keep in the fridge. Every single day and other than that I absolutely don't "mess" with him. The growling has completely stopped & we still don't mess with him or take his toys/food as punishment, never will.


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## wolfspirit (Dec 10, 2009)

Agree with everyone else, he was a bit worried that people being near his food was a bad thing and boy did you confirm it.

Then you taught him that giving any kind of warning before biting (which is what a growl is- he is trying to diffuse the situation by growling first) is also a bad thing.


This is how you end up with dogs who 'suddenly' bite people with no warning. There is no suddenly about it, the dog has just been punished for giving any warnings and so doesn't anymore.

I would strongly suggest you stop messing with him by stroking him when he is eating and go with the suggestion of dropping in high value treats whenever you go near his bowl and leave it at that. And forget the whole silly notion that he is going for world domination by guarding his food, he is just s hungry baby eating his food and worried that you might take it!


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I always do some hand feeding with my new pups and throughout their lives from time to time walk up and add a little something to their bowl. I also have them *wait* before eating from their bowl, often give them a quick pat, and then release them to *eat*. 

Growling just means that you need to do more work with the dog at another time not dealing with meals. Do increase the obedience work, the NILIF, and the feeding treats by hand. And don't forget to *sometimes* (once a week or so is enough) casually walk near him while he is eating and toss a yummy near his bowl and then keep walking away. When he seems comfortable with the drive by tossing then barely pause and drop something really good into his bowl and then walk away while saying "good boy". This too shouldn't be very often just enough to let him know that when someone does get near while eating chances are very good that they are only bringing something better than what is already in the bowl and they are not there to take from him.


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## JOSHUA SAMPSON (Feb 21, 2010)

*contrasting*

I Dont think you did anything majorly wrong in this. as far as picking up the puppy by the nape of the neck and saying NO! that is more of a dominance correction. This helps the puppy realize that you are indeed a very powerful member of the pack. Just dont let this divulge into submissive urination. On the other hand, While my initial "knee jerk" reaction was not to tell you that that was wrong, I immediately thought to myself "OH you wanna growl at me then we'll eat food in my lap out of my hand until you get over it.!" You see when the puppy growls when you near him while feeding he is saying "This is my food and you cant have any!" So when you picked him up by the nape of the neck you reminded him "I'm in charge here and you'll eat when I say you eat."But that should definately be followed by you feeding him out of your hand in your lap. The reason I say this is that you then begin teaching him " I'm not gonna eat your food, and for that matter I am going to give you all the food you want, but you only get it from me and from in my lap! so you better get comfortable with me" and he will get very comfortable with you. This brings the whole pack dominance issue into focus for your puppy and in a positive light. The puppy begins to think, Oh I get fed when mom is around, cool I like mom, mom can mess with my food any time because she ALWAYS gives it to me. And he'll loose the aggressiveness thing in the process.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> So when you picked him up by the nape of the neck you reminded him "I'm in charge here and you'll eat when I say you eat."


Or you will be telling the young dog that you are acting out of normal character (a mother dog would not be picking up an older pup this age), threatning him like this and then taking his food, so now he is just reinforced to be nervous whenever you approach. Today it is picking up and growling at him what will tomorrow bring -- an **"alpha roll"** to show who is in charge? 

Let the pup learn that his food is safe and won't be taken away and that he has no cause for alarm when someone walks by.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

" I always do some hand feeding with my new pups and throughout their lives from time to time walk up and add a little something to their bowl. I also have them *wait* before eating from their bowl, often give them a quick pat, and then release them to *eat*. "

ditto!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My pup is 19 months old and I feed him by hand every day. Not normally his kibble though. If I have a high value treat and he does a trick or two for it, I'll toss it to him and he'll catch it. Then at some point I'll give it to him so that he remembers my fingers aren't part of the treat. He still takes food very carefully from me. And never, ever takes food out of my hand unless I offer it to him first. 

My golden will grab the food from you up to your wrist if you aren't careful. He has issues anyways, so I don't reinforce this with him too much. I'm just careful to give him big chunks of what ever I'm treating with.

I want to add that for my GSD as he got older I change up where I feed him. If I'm inside, I feed him inside. If I'm on the porch, I'll feed him on the porch. If I'm folding laundry, I'll feed him inside his kennel in my bedroom. I want him to know that where ever he is eating, the food belongs to him and he doesn't have to wolf it down or stand over his feed to protect it. I've even had friends over and I placed all of our chairs on the porch in a circle and fed him in the middle of the circle. I wanted to see if this made him nervous. He just ate at his normal rate. He did however, slobber over peoples laps. I liked that part.


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## wolfspirit (Dec 10, 2009)

ILGHAUS said:


> Or you will be telling the young dog that you are acting out of normal character (a mother dog would not be picking up an older pup this age), threatning him like this and then taking his food, so now he is just reinforced to be nervous whenever you approach. Today it is picking up and growling at him what will tomorrow bring -- an **"alpha roll"** to show who is in charge?
> 
> Let the pup learn that his food is safe and won't be taken away and that he has no cause for alarm when someone walks by.


I agree.  The growling is just the puppy's way of saying that he is feeling anxious and not happy about the situation. You need to change the WAY HE FEELS about a human approaching his bowl, not just silence him. By scruffing him and scaring him into not growling any more you may have stopped the growls but you won't have changed his anxiety about having you near his bowl. If you do the high value treat thing whenever you approach, he will start to relax naturally and it won't even be an issue.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

wolfspirit said:


> Agree with everyone else, he was a bit worried that people being near his food was a bad thing and boy did you confirm it.
> 
> Then you taught him that giving any kind of warning before biting (which is what a growl is- he is trying to diffuse the situation by growling first) is also a bad thing.
> 
> ...


THAT IS VERY OLD FASHIONED TREATMENT OF A DOG EATING! As in - "Don't go near the dog, he is eating!"

That is terribly dangerous training and will almost inevitably lead to someone, esp. a child, being bit later! - why not just train the dog from his first meal that even if someone takes their food, they will soon get it back! And that growling or anything else is not permitted whatsoever!

We have had 8 GSD's of all types (Puppies to adults) and not one would ever growl if I or anyone in the family would just take their food bowl or toy or bone away from them. They might look very sad - but that is the limit on their reaction.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

wolfspirit said:


> I agree.  The growling is just the puppy's way of saying that he is feeling anxious and not happy about the situation. You need to change the WAY HE FEELS about a human approaching his bowl, not just silence him. By scruffing him and scaring him into not growling any more you may have stopped the growls but you won't have changed his anxiety about having you near his bowl. If you do the high value treat thing whenever you approach, he will start to relax naturally and it won't even be an issue.


Many dogs and puppies are not feeling anxious, just hungry! and they don't want to give it up! 

Not everything a dog does is because of fear and/or anxiety - some of their behavior is just because they don't want to do what we want them to at the time that we want them to do so.

Dogs will of course protect their food, etc. from other dogs, so we have to teach them that they are not allowed to do so with people, esp. with small children! 

Too darn many kids get bit by dogs eating and that is ridicuolus!

It is not difficult to teach a dog, and esp. when they are small puppies, that someone taking their thing is not a bad thing and the worst case is that they will soon get it back and maybe even a better thing.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I guess I am different in the sense that my dogs are NOT ALLOWED to even think they can growl about food, toys, or any possessions. I have had many breeds of dogs and never have I had any kind of issue of picking up or taking away their toys or food or whatever. I just have never given it any thought, from the day they come home, I do take away toys, food, etc from their bowls, their mouths, their front feet holding a toy down. I take away bones, chew toys, anything. 
I have never had an issue because I have just done it and not worried about it. Anyone at anytime can take anything from my dogs mouths, under their feet if they are holding something or whatever and have no issues.
I would not allow my dog to think they have control over food or toys or couches or whatever they want, my, my husband, my daughter, my grandkids, my vet, anyone is able to remove something from my dogs at anythime. Their stuff is mine first and have never even hesitated to take things from them.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Absolutely right on! Very well put!


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my pup came home at 9 weeks old. from the 1st feeding
i would put my hand in his bowl. i didn't put my hand in his
bowl in a teasing or threatening. i did it calmly. when i did
it i gave him lots of praise. sometimes i straddled my pup while
he was eating. i read somewhere when you take the bowl away
while they're eating your supposed to give them something
that's better in the bowl (high value treat). i also had family,
friends, neighbors and strangers play around with his food while he was eating or drinking water. i've heard people say you shouldn't bother
them while they're eating. i did it alot and i'm glad i did.

my GF is a massage therapist. she has clients that visit our home.
one day one of her clients was standing in the kitchen while
our dog was eating. out of nowhere she bent down and petted
our dogs head. our dog never looked up.

gently work with your pup while he's eating.


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