# Raw Food Diet Question



## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello everyone! Need some help/suggestions. I have put Ronin, my 5 month old shepherd, on a raw food diet and he has been on it since he was about 3.5 months old because we were having such a hard time with the other dog food we were feeding him. He has done beautifully on it! It's called Carnivora and we give him chicken and pork right at the moment but are thinking of switching it up. Now here is the question.

The past week or so, I noticed that after he eats the raw food, if I take him for a walk or any kind of exercise he comes back and poops again and then it's diarrhea. Whereas the poop earlier would be solid. No blood and it's not liquid, more just pudding texture. But it is always after exercise or after he gets himself a bit worked up. I have no idea why! Could I be walking him too soon after he eats? I usually wait about 45-50 minutes before taking him if I can at night when I get home from work. Sometimes I take him about 20 minutes after in the morning but it's only because I have a limited time frame before I have to leave for work.Not that I think that walking him should matter but not sure. Or I'm wondering if either the chicken or pork is just not sitting well with him. He gets pork in the morning, chicken at lunch and then pork for supper. Suggestions or even advice? I know it's a bit of a weird question


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

If he had been doing well on his food until recently, I would have him checked for parasites at the vet. Ask them to run the ELISA test for giardia, as it can be easily missed on a normal fecal check. If that all comes back negative, I would look at how much you are feeding him. Have you recently increased his food? If so, maybe back off just a little and see if that helps. Is he on a probiotic? If not, adding a good one (Sunday Sundae, Digest All Plus, Dr. Dobias GutSense) might help.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Ok, I just checked out the nutrition information for the Carnivora chicken (couldn't find pork on their website). It is VERY high in fat. That could be the problem. Maybe try one of the lower fat options? Elk seemed to have the lowest fat, followed by beef and bison. Even the rabbit is a bit high in fat, but it is lower than the chicken.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

GypsyGhost said:


> Ok, I just checked out the nutrition information for the Carnivora chicken (couldn't find pork on their website). It is VERY high in fat. That could be the problem. Maybe try one of the lower fat options? Elk seemed to have the lowest fat, followed by beef and bison. Even the rabbit is a bit high in fat, but it is lower than the chicken.


I have upped his amount. He was at 2 but was so hungry he was vomiting bile a lot. So per the rep's recommendations and my vet, we upped it to 3. He has a lot more pork than chicken. I was told by the rep that no more than 1 chicken pattie a day. Because of the bones and fat. I'm just wondering more if the pork could be doing it. Unfortunately, the elk and bison and such are really expensive. A lot more than we can afford right now. So we are looking at the lower cost options. But we also upped the amount almost 2 weeks ago now, so it seems like a long time in between to me. However, his food is almost out so I am going to look at the other kinds and get another kind along with the chicken or pork for the next round.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

give the dog time to digest.


Digestion requires energy . 


Running , walking , require energy.


How do you feel when you eat and run.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Ronin2016 said:


> I have upped his amount. He was at 2 but was so hungry he was vomiting bile a lot. So per the rep's recommendations and my vet, we upped it to 3. He has a lot more pork than chicken. I was told by the rep that no more than 1 chicken pattie a day. Because of the bones and fat. I'm just wondering more if the pork could be doing it. Unfortunately, the elk and bison and such are really expensive. A lot more than we can afford right now. So we are looking at the lower cost options. But we also upped the amount almost 2 weeks ago now, so it seems like a long time in between to me. However, his food is almost out so I am going to look at the other kinds and get another kind along with the chicken or pork for the next round.


I know how expensive commercial raw can get (my boy ONLY does well on Stella & Chewy's venison or rabbit... It costs as much as our mortgage to feed him for a month). Is the beef very expensive? 

Also, I agree with Carmen's assessment that there may be too much activity too close to his meals. I would still have him tested for parasites, though. Best to rule that out, especially if it came on awhile after you had upped his food.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

GypsyGhost said:


> I know how expensive commercial raw can get (my boy ONLY does well on Stella & Chewy's venison or rabbit... It costs as much as our mortgage to feed him for a month). Is the beef very expensive?
> 
> Also, I agree with Carmen's assessment that there may be too much activity too close to his meals. I would still have him tested for parasites, though. Best to rule that out, especially if it came on awhile after you had upped his food.


Beef is very expensive unfortunately. Most of the proteins are. We buy bulk because in the end it saves us a bit, but I can't afford to pay almost $300 or more for 2 proteins all the time. We may have to, but if I can avoid it, I would like to. 

I will try to limit walks until after he digests and see if that helps. How long does it take on average for them to digest? Just so I know how long to wait on average. I am taking a fecal sample to the vet tomorrow and hoping to get some answers on if there is a parasite. Hoping not, but you never know with puppies.

The Carnivora rep also sells a holistic product called slippery elm that is also made specially to help stomach upsets and kills parasites. I may look into using that as well if he does have a parasite just because it's only $10 for a bottle of it and you don't use much and won't cost me a vet bill. Thankfully my vet is a believer in the all natural approach and agrees with anything holistic if it works.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

GypsyGhost said:


> I know how expensive commercial raw can get (my boy ONLY does well on Stella & Chewy's venison or rabbit... It costs as much as our mortgage to feed him for a month). Is the beef very expensive?
> 
> Also, I agree with Carmen's assessment that there may be too much activity too close to his meals. I would still have him tested for parasites, though. Best to rule that out, especially if it came on awhile after you had upped his food.


Beef is very expensive unfortunately. Most of the proteins are. We buy bulk because in the end it saves us a bit, but I can't afford to pay almost $300 or more for 2 proteins all the time. We may have to, but if I can avoid it, I would like to. 

I will try to limit walks until after he digests and see if that helps. How long does it take on average for them to digest? Just so I know how long to wait on average. I am taking a fecal sample to the vet tomorrow and hoping to get some answers on if there is a parasite. Hoping not, but you never know with puppies.

The Carnivora rep also sells a holistic product called slippery elm that is also made specially to help stomach upsets and kills parasites. I may look into using that as well if he does have a parasite just because it's only $10 for a bottle of it and you don't use much and won't cost me a vet bill. Thankfully my vet is a believer in the all natural approach and agrees with anything holistic if it works.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Slippery Elm does not kill parasites.


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

If I walk Traveler within a half hour of feeding, he will have diarrhea-guaranteed!!!

Sorry I can't help with the raw questions.

Lynn & Traveler


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> Slippery Elm does not kill parasites.


My apologies I meant damascous earth. I think that's how you spell it. Got confused on the two.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Just wanted to give an update. We have now found out after an emergency trip to the vet he has picked up something and it made him sick. Friday evening he had watery diarrhea and vomiting most of the night. He is now on 3 different medications that seem to be working well. We are not sure what the virus is, because it is not showing up in blood work or in fecal tests so we're doing trial and error here. But fingers crossed that it's working so far. He is on light exercise, which means no walks until we figure it out, because too much exercise seems to aggravate his belly too much and makes the diarrhea worse.

For the raw food, we are now switching him from Pork to Lamb to see if that will help him a bit better. The vet did say that the pork and chicken were too much fat, but that he is right on track with his weight and size. Hoping that the lamb will be a bit lighter on his stomach as well.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Ronin2016 said:


> For the raw food, we are now switching him from Pork to Lamb to see if that will help him a bit better. The vet did say that the pork and chicken were too much fat, but that he is right on track with his weight and size. Hoping that the* lamb will be a bit lighter on his stomach* as well.


Lamb is also fatty (21.3%). I'd do the Elk which is low in fat (7.3%) until you get the stomach issues squared away, then try another protein with higher fat content for one of his meals per day to see how he handles it. :wink2:


Are you giving a Digestive Enzyme to help him assimilate his food properly?
This one is from Canada: *Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): Sunday-Sundae-12oz


If you use the Slippery Elm, it is given about an hour or more before feeding.

Hope he feels better!
Moms


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Pork is very fatty, I only feed it twice a week max. My staples are chicken and beef with pork, turkey, duck, salmon, and rabbit on a regular rotation. So one day chicken, one day beef, one day turkey, one day chicken, one day salmon, etc

It's important to have variety in a raw diet, at least three protein minimum unless there's a medical reason (allergy, etc)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ronin2016 said:


> Just wanted to give an update. We have now found out after an emergency trip to the vet he has picked up something and it made him sick. Friday evening he had watery diarrhea and vomiting most of the night. He is now on 3 different medications that seem to be working well. We are not sure what the virus is, because it is not showing up in blood work or in fecal tests so we're doing trial and error here. But fingers crossed that it's working so far. He is on light exercise, which means no walks until we figure it out, because too much exercise seems to aggravate his belly too much and makes the diarrhea worse.
> 
> For the raw food, we are now switching him from Pork to Lamb to see if that will help him a bit better. The vet did say that the pork and chicken were too much fat, but that he is right on track with his weight and size. Hoping that the lamb will be a bit lighter on his stomach as well.



So I"m just going to throw this out there....You don't know why this puppy is having issues. I'm a raw feeder. My dog was weaned on raw and has never had kibble. But in your case, I think I would put him on a good sensitive stomach dog food from the vet to settle his GI tract down. Once that is fixed, then go forward.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks everyone. Just to answer a couple of things.



> Pork is very fatty, I only feed it twice a week max. My staples are chicken and beef with pork, turkey, duck, salmon, and rabbit on a regular rotation. So one day chicken, one day beef, one day turkey, one day chicken, one day salmon, etc
> 
> It's important to have variety in a raw diet, at least three protein minimum unless there's a medical reason (allergy, etc)


 I totally agree pork is too fatty so I'm going to stay away from it from now on.  Unfortunately I can't afford to feed him all those at once. That would run me WAY too much money. He's on two and we switch up the proteins after the batch is gone. The vet has ok'd this. Right now it will be chicken and lamb, and then when the lamb is gone I'll probably switch it to something else. I would love to be able to give him more variety every day, but unfortunately I can't right now. Especially after the emergency visits to the vet and his daycare. He's gaining weight and is exactly the right size for his build according to the vet. 


> So I"m just going to throw this out there....You don't know why this puppy is having issues. I'm a raw feeder. My dog was weaned on raw and has never had kibble. But in your case, I think I would put him on a good sensitive stomach dog food from the vet to settle his GI tract down. Once that is fixed, then go forward.


He was on kibble before and he has too many reactions to kibble, which is why we switched him to raw. Even the vet GI foods bothered him. The raw food immediately helped when we put him on it initially. His diarrhea stopped the very same day, so I would like to avoid putting him back on kibble for as long as possible because we don't think it will make the situation any better. We have since found out that it's not his food bothering him, he has a virus or bug of some kind. So far the diarrhea has stopped so I'm hoping that he will be all better in a few more days.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

I feed mine Carnivora (dinner version, with 10% added vegetables). I posted in several related and unrelated topics already - he wouldn't eat kibble and had troubles eating when I brought him at 4months of age. He is on Carnivora now for several months and never felt better.
I started with chicken and went through all of them - Bison is his favorite and his poop is great! I thought they are all the same price (lol! Shows how much I care about it), but as long as he eats, I'm very happy and will pay any price.

I noticed on other flavors he would have softer stool at times, and not all of it, just parts. But on bison he is doing extremely well.

For 9 months old here is my schedule:
- Wake up at 5:15am, give him fresh water, pull 2 patties out and put into a sink with hot water (inside a deep plate, so it just floats), and we go for the morning walk (takes about 15-2- minutes). But I feed him around 7 am.
Before you jump to conclusions, once a week I drop him off at the doggy daycare, and on those days I feed him almost as soon as we are back from the morning walk (around 5:30) because we leave at 6:30-6:40 and I want to give him at least an hour to settle before the car ride - makes no difference and he does just fine.

- in the evening, his second and last meal, I give him 1 patty instead of 2, and after the meal I give him a meaty elk or bison neck to work his jaw muscles, keep his teeth clean, and he loves to spend some alone time with that bone. After that sometimes I give him chicken necks (3-4 pieces) as a treat.

Dogs' stomachs are acidic (-2 or -4 level, something like that) and are designed to digest bones - don't be afraid of it. Especially Carnivora patties have them as small ground pieces.

One thing to note, make sure the food is room temperature (more or less), and I always add half of glass of tap (cold) water. It's really soft and he just licks it all away. He loves it so much and every time he even licks the plate clean, the goof

In addition, after the evening (before bed time) grooming session, we touch ears, paws, "show teeth" and brush him - he gets one raw egg.

His stool is great and he loves his meals. His coat looks healthy and shiney, his skin is super clean and he smells very nice and definitely not like a dog. Just very nice clean smell. I don't bathe him either.

I did start adding a patty of raw salmon every other day for skin (it's kind of dry here and he doesn't like pure salmon oil, but eats raw fish). And doesn't matter what I feed from what I mentioned, he doesn't have any loose stool.

Same as in mornings, in evenings I take the patty out to thaw and we go for a walk (the evening one takes about 40min-1.5hour, depending on the route. When we are back, I eat first (he rests for 15-20 minutes after the walk), and then I feed him. 
We just walk in our walks, no running. He runs the whole day once a week at the daycare to blow off some steam. But we walk on a daily basis for 10-12km during weekdays and 15-20km on weekends. He is very fit and muscular, will be 10 months in 5 days and weighs 34.5kg (around 75.8 pounds?). I'm definitely happy with his schedule and health, and so is he.

Hopefully some of this info helps and let me know if i can answer any other questions you might have - will be more than happy if i know the answers.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> I feed mine Carnivora (dinner version, with 10% added vegetables). I posted in several related and unrelated topics already - he wouldn't eat kibble and had troubles eating when I brought him at 4months of age. He is on Carnivora now for several months and never felt better.
> I started with chicken and went through all of them - Bison is his favorite and his poop is great! I thought they are all the same price (lol! Shows how much I care about it), but as long as he eats, I'm very happy and will pay any price.
> 
> I noticed on other flavors he would have softer stool at times, and not all of it, just parts. But on bison he is doing extremely well.
> ...


He sounds like a very happy and healthy dog. Our routine is a bit less structured but mostly the same:

Up at 6:45, out to pee and poop and then inside to eat. He gets 1 chicken in the morning, 1 of the other protein in lunch and then 1 chicken at supper. For now. When I get the new protein this week I'll switch it so that he only gets one chicken a day. We do our walks at night because in the morning he never wants to walk. Instead I put him on a long lead that's attached to the deck and let him run around our back yard. He loves it, and it tires him out. He gets to do that for about 35-40 minutes and then inside so I can get ready for work. When I get home from work I feed him, let him pee and poop and then wait a bit before we go on a walk. Sometimes, he doesn't want to walk so we play outside in the back yard and I'll get him to chase a ball or run around with him. He goes to daycare once or twice a week and that really helps him blow off some steam.

His poops are not great right this second because of whatever he has picked up, but normally they're great. No problems. I only had to bath him once because he rolled in poop at the daycare by mistake and it was caked all over him. Not fun let me tell you. How did your dog do on lamb? Ok or was it still too fatty?


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> He sounds like a very happy and healthy dog. Our routine is a bit less structured but mostly the same:
> 
> Up at 6:45, out to pee and poop and then inside to eat. He gets 1 chicken in the morning, 1 of the other protein in lunch and then 1 chicken at supper. For now. When I get the new protein this week I'll switch it so that he only gets one chicken a day. We do our walks at night because in the morning he never wants to walk. Instead I put him on a long lead that's attached to the deck and let him run around our back yard. He loves it, and it tires him out. He gets to do that for about 35-40 minutes and then inside so I can get ready for work. When I get home from work I feed him, let him pee and poop and then wait a bit before we go on a walk. Sometimes, he doesn't want to walk so we play outside in the back yard and I'll get him to chase a ball or run around with him. He goes to daycare once or twice a week and that really helps him blow off some steam.
> 
> His poops are not great right this second because of whatever he has picked up, but normally they're great. No problems. I only had to bath him once because he rolled in poop at the daycare by mistake and it was caked all over him. Not fun let me tell you. How did your dog do on lamb? Ok or was it still too fatty?


Actually I haven't tried lamb. We did chicken, turkey, pork, beef and bison. With each one he had some sort of side effect (mucous-y covered stool, or some of it a bit loose). With bison - he absolutely loves it and his stool is rock solid every single time.
Yes! I really like having him at the daycare. I still worry of course so that there is no some aggressive dog gets into a fight with him cuz he is just such a sweet boy and only wants to play. But these guys are good and they watch who they place him with. Mine is also intact, so they watch to make sure there is no other dominant intact male in the pack.

If you are willing to try, maybe don't let him run on his own before the meal in the morning and do take him for a walk instead. Make it fun for him during walks, change pace, jog for a few feet and slow down then back to normal, do turns as you walk, circles, figure 8, all these little things to make walks more fun for him. I never let mine run out on his own and watch him like a hawk during walks - don't let him eat anything off the ground (now much less than used to, but he does pick up something on occasion). Any time he is unsupervised, there is a chance they'll swallow something that may upset their stomach.
Of course I always let him have the salad bar or smell a flower.. lol! He apparently has a very sensitive nature and likes to stop and smell a nice flower 
If you walk him and don't let him run, he still gets the exercise but in a calmer way, especially if you feed him pretty much right after.

Another thing to add to "he doesn't want to walk" - he doesn't call the shots Take him for a walk, lead him. Be kind with him but firm, put the collar on and off we go. Bring a tiny treat or two and reward for good things that he does during walks.
We almost never run during our walks and we stopped going to the dog park because of irresponsible owners , but he is pure muscle and never showed any destructive behavior inside the house - as long as there is enough, walks are a very good exercise and much easier on the fragile developing bones.
Maybe he is eating bugs while outside that you never see and some of them are not lethal enough to cause serious damage, but could cause upset stomach or may get lodged in the airway or throat (bug's hard shell wings and etc.). THIS part I've never had a personal experience, but from reading other sites and forums, things like that could cause issues. He may also pick up some dirt while trying to munch on grass, or rabbit's poop.. lol. 
Do you have rabbits in your area? I taught mine and he ignores it now, but for dogs it's also a "source of food" because of how rabbit's digestive system is designed, they don't digest everything on the first go and there are nutrients and stuff left for the second round (gross! haha). Dogs smell food leftovers in there and like picking it up. But also rabbits may have diseases and cause upset stomach or more serious things. Just one more reason why I would rather supervise my pup all the time until he gets a hand of what is good and what is not. I kinda want to train him so he asks me if it's ok to pick up and only do it when allowed. 
Anyways, when you said you are getting "new protein", what do you mean by that? Just different flavor and still Carnivora or something else?

Maybe also try adding 1/4 of glass of goat milk (i buy from health foods store) - it has natural enzymes and every little bit is good about it for dogs. That may also help.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks for the great advice! I have tried him out on walks in the mornings, but I spend more time trying to get him to follow me instead of pulling on his leash to go back home. I have tired treats, being firm and basically having to yank him along. I have a shoulder injury so I can't yank all the time or else I will damage it again and then won't be able to walk him at all. However, in the morning, he goes on the lead and then we go in the back yard and do some training and throwing a ball or something instead. I'll see if I can try to get him to go for a walk again in the morning before he eats and see how he does. No rabbits around our house or neighborhood, but we did have deer at one point so I was keeping him away from those areas where I know they like to congregate just in case. We had one instance where he ate one pellet of deer poop but he hasn't since because we've been working on the "leave it" command just to be on the safe side.

New protein meant the same carnivore brand, but switch up the kinds we get. He was on pork and chicken, we're going to switch to chicken and lamb for the next batch and then we'll switch it up again probably when that batch runs out. We live across the country from you in the Maritimes so we have to pay more for tax and shipping and everything which drives the prices up for everything, making it harder for me to buy the more expensive kinds right now. In the future sure, but with all the vet bills, I have to try and save some money on it right now.

I love him going to daycare because he's learning to play with the other dogs a lot better. We had an issue with him going after some little dogs a bit too roughly, but now he's doing fantastic and has learned his boundaries! He's still very young so he hasn't hit sexual maturity yet, but the daycare have a rule that they have to be neutered by 10 months to still go. I'm going to keep him in until he's 10 months, but don't want to neuter him that early. But so far he's doing very well! The best part about the daycare is that they also host all his training classes, and the trainer worked with K9 dogs in Ontario for about 15-20 years and knows the GSD breed so well that she knows how to make Ronin mind and gives me great tips on how to make him listen and training tips that work for him because he can be so stubborn and rambunctious at times.

This is a picture of him.  He's 5 months and 48 pounds as of Friday afternoon.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Aw! What a cutester!! 

As far as walking on leash/in heel and have him follow you, start inside the house without distractions, get that down solid. Then move on to outside but in quieter areas without a lot of distractions, and only then start adding distractions. Just take it one tiny step at a time and make any learning experience fun and exciting.
Also, every time you give in into what he wants, it's a win in his books - don't give it to him. He pulls back home - stop and don't move until he settles and/or comes to you. Turn around and make a few more steps and see what he does. Show him that you are in charge and he has to follow your lead. You don't even need to pull, jerk the leash or yell/speak. Just stop and don't move until he changes his behavior. When he comes to you - praise LOTS and keep going to where you were planning until the next time he pulls or wants to go somewhere else. 
Some folks bring toys/balls/ropes and other distractions with them to keep the walks more interactive. With mine we just walk and every now and then practice obedience as we go to bring in some variety. 
Another thing to note is that they will keep testing you and push boundaries to see what they can get away with. If you give in, they will keep pushing even more and it may be harder to deal with if this behavior develops in them.

As far as neutering - our daycare said that he must be neutered by 8 months if he wants to stay in group play, otherwise he will be more isolated (still near other dogs but not in close contact and there will be a bit more human interaction instead. That was almost 2 months ago. He still plays fine with other dogs. lol. They just place him in groups without other dominant or intact dogs and he still has lots of fun going there. I told them flat out that I'm not neutering him until he is at least 1.5-2 years old to make sure he gets all his hormones and grows properly into the german shepherd. They understand and respect my decision, which make me very happy and another proof that I made the right choice with this daycare (thus far).


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> Aw! What a cutester!!
> 
> As far as walking on leash/in heel and have him follow you, start inside the house without distractions, get that down solid. Then move on to outside but in quieter areas without a lot of distractions, and only then start adding distractions. Just take it one tiny step at a time and make any learning experience fun and exciting.
> Also, every time you give in into what he wants, it's a win in his books - don't give it to him. He pulls back home - stop and don't move until he settles and/or comes to you. Turn around and make a few more steps and see what he does. Show him that you are in charge and he has to follow your lead. You don't even need to pull, jerk the leash or yell/speak. Just stop and don't move until he changes his behavior. When he comes to you - praise LOTS and keep going to where you were planning until the next time he pulls or wants to go somewhere else.
> ...


Apparently there has been a problem with a dog in the past who wasn't neutered and that they are now required to be neutered to go. The daycare didn't get into detail but I don't think it was anything good. Doesn't bother me too much, because I'll still be taking him to classes and such, just not daycare all the time. He will be going back once he is neutered. We're looking at neutering him at possibly 1 year old at earliest, maybe a bit longer depending on how things go.

For walking I'll make sure to take what you said to heart.  It's work in progress for me since this is my first dog on my own and I do the majority of the training and work with him. He does well walking later on in the day, but first thing in the morning he's so full of energy that he can be hard to control. I will sometimes just stop and not move if he gets too crazy and wait until he calms down, and usually he comes to my side looking very sorry. Haha. Then he's good for a bit longer before he starts up again. I'll be getting him up tomorrow morning early to go for a walk to see how he does without eating first and see if he gets his energy out a bit. I have to remind myself not to let him see me annoyed or get mad at him. He's just a puppy and is still very much learning. It's hard when you're running on no sleep and the only one doing all the work sometimes, so sometimes I will admit I lose my patience and have to remind myself it's not his fault. I'm learning just as much as him! But he's a fantastic dog and has bonded really well with me and he's definitely a wonderful addition to my family!


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Oh, trust me I get it! I live alone, busy with work and sleeping 5 hours a day (have proof - MS wrist band 2 with sleep tracking).
Yeah, that's good. When he comes back to you looking guilty, praise him lots to show him that the place right near/next to you is the happy place! Yes, as puppies they have very short attention span, just be patient and keep reminding him that. 
I'm doing the same stuff with mine, and now I got to a point that we walk in heel, I see him getting distracted, we stop and I tell him "Ok (it's our release word), go sniff" and he goes to sniff and do his business as we slowly keep walking in the same direction. But what I like about all the efforts I put in - once he is done, he returns to heel on his own and we keep walking.
He is still far from perfect and often gets distracted, especially if it's windy and leaves/paper and etc. fly around, but he gets better and better at ignoring distractions and I patiently keep correcting him with tons of praises.

Good luck! Mine is the first dog ever that I own and obviously first GSD, but I'm so anal (forgive the reference) about getting it right and giving the best home to my fur-baby that I possible can, and learning and reading TONS of material GSDs specific and dogs in general.
With that being said, I realize that every dog is unique, as well as owners, so just keep trying different stuff until you find what works for you and your pooch.


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> Oh, trust me I get it! I live alone, busy with work and sleeping 5 hours a day (have proof - MS wrist band 2 with sleep tracking).
> Yeah, that's good. When he comes back to you looking guilty, praise him lots to show him that the place right near/next to you is the happy place! Yes, as puppies they have very short attention span, just be patient and keep reminding him that.
> I'm doing the same stuff with mine, and now I got to a point that we walk in heel, I see him getting distracted, we stop and I tell him "Ok (it's our release word), go sniff" and he goes to sniff and do his business as we slowly keep walking in the same direction. But what I like about all the efforts I put in - once he is done, he returns to heel on his own and we keep walking.
> He is still far from perfect and often gets distracted, especially if it's windy and leaves/paper and etc. fly around, but he gets better and better at ignoring distractions and I patiently keep correcting him with tons of praises.
> ...


It's like looking in a mirror! Ha ha. I'm so much the same. I want him to be the best trained dog I can make him, but I also understand that it's not going to be perfect all the time. We haven't started working on heel yet, but it's on my new list of things to work on with him. Though he walks right by my side when we walk, not really going ahead of me so that's a plus. The only time I have to really stop until he comes back to me is when he wants to chase leaves. He can be on my right side, the road on my left and he will spot a leaf out of the corner of his eye and run in front of me with no warning trying to get it. Thankfully he's only on a 6ft leash and the way I hold the leash I have control enough that he can only get a few feet and not into traffic, but still, almost tripping myself isn't a good thing, so we're working on that. Treats and praise work well, but he can be stubborn so sometimes neither of those seem to work well either. Patience is my new favorite word. I love having a german shepherd but my goodness they are a lot of work!


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> It's like looking in a mirror! Ha ha. I'm so much the same. I want him to be the best trained dog I can make him, but I also understand that it's not going to be perfect all the time. We haven't started working on heel yet, but it's on my new list of things to work on with him. Though he walks right by my side when we walk, not really going ahead of me so that's a plus. The only time I have to really stop until he comes back to me is when he wants to chase leaves. He can be on my right side, the road on my left and he will spot a leaf out of the corner of his eye and run in front of me with no warning trying to get it. Thankfully he's only on a 6ft leash and the way I hold the leash I have control enough that he can only get a few feet and not into traffic, but still, almost tripping myself isn't a good thing, so we're working on that. Treats and praise work well, but he can be stubborn so sometimes neither of those seem to work well either. Patience is my new favorite word. I love having a german shepherd but my goodness they are a lot of work!


Amen, brother! They are definitely a lot of work, and it may sound sadistic, but I enjoy every little bit of it.
Mine also used to chase leaves/flying pieces of paper and etc., especially when the wind is strong, but he already barely reacts to them. Be proactive. Just keep watching him as you walk (especially when windy) - he would normally get his head up high and chest ahead (kind of the excited stance) and a second later takes off after it. You have to be really quick about it though and as soon as you see his attention got caught, redirect attention to yourself (with leash or verbal/body language, turn and walk the opposite way, anything you can think of), and praise the moment his attention shifted from the leaf. Because of how their memory works, timing is very critical otherwise he won't know that he is being praised for not going after the leaf and not for looking at you (not necessarily a bad thing to be praised for, but you get the idea).

It IS like looking in the mirror.. lol! Too funny


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> I love having a german shepherd but my goodness they are a lot of work!


How are you doing with feeding/walking schedule?


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> How are you doing with feeding/walking schedule?


I haven't been able to take him for a walk just yet. The vet asked me to give it another couple days since he's on his medication, but we've been playing fetch, or well attempting since he hasn't quite grasped the whole bring it back AND drop it, not run away with it again. Haha. He went to daycare yesterday and wore himself out so there was no walk yesterday. I'm going to try and take him tonight and see how he does. I personally need to work on making sure to watch him a bit more closely to try and catch the signs and get him to pay attention to me. Sometimes I get walking and trying to not get too close to other people walking by I miss his cues. Thankfully though, when other people walk by he doesn't try and run at them or after them. Just walks along with me.

Feeding so far is good. Switched him to lamb today and so far he's alright. No diarrhea again. He loves raw food so that's good at least! He is now up to 50 pounds and his coat is soft and gorgeous! We are not talking about switching him off of chicken to something else as well, but not sure which just yet. Again, expense is an issue right at this moment, but possibly can manage it in a few months when we don't have to go to the vet every few days haha.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> I haven't been able to take him for a walk just yet. The vet asked me to give it another couple days since he's on his medication, but we've been playing fetch, or well attempting since he hasn't quite grasped the whole bring it back AND drop it, not run away with it again. Haha. He went to daycare yesterday and wore himself out so there was no walk yesterday. I'm going to try and take him tonight and see how he does. I personally need to work on making sure to watch him a bit more closely to try and catch the signs and get him to pay attention to me. Sometimes I get walking and trying to not get too close to other people walking by I miss his cues. Thankfully though, when other people walk by he doesn't try and run at them or after them. Just walks along with me.
> 
> Feeding so far is good. Switched him to lamb today and so far he's alright. No diarrhea again. He loves raw food so that's good at least! He is now up to 50 pounds and his coat is soft and gorgeous! We are not talking about switching him off of chicken to something else as well, but not sure which just yet. Again, expense is an issue right at this moment, but possibly can manage it in a few months when we don't have to go to the vet every few days haha.


That's good to hear! I remember it all too well! We were going to the vet every 3-4 days. They even stopped charging us for some of the less expensive visits to help us a little bit (like checkup is not covered by insurance so they didn't charge us for that a couple of times). lol. Yes, I love raw diet too. Everybody compliments on his coat and how soft and healthy/shiny it looks. Keep sending updates as things progress


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## Bear12345 (Apr 22, 2016)




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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> That's good to hear! I remember it all too well! We were going to the vet every 3-4 days. They even stopped charging us for some of the less expensive visits to help us a little bit (like checkup is not covered by insurance so they didn't charge us for that a couple of times). lol. Yes, I love raw diet too. Everybody compliments on his coat and how soft and healthy/shiny it looks. Keep sending updates as things progress


I always get the same comments. People can't believe how big he is for his age and how healthy he is despite the stomach upset. We took him for a walk last night a few hours after he had supper and he did just fine. No diarrhea, and he was walking like a champ most of the time. There was one instance where there were two dogs, both rotweillers and before we even got to them the owner was yelling at us that they didn't want our dog around theirs because they didn't like Shepherds. Now, I'm perfectly fine with abiding by their wishes, and made sure that Ronin was on the other side of me, away from them, with my hand firmly on his leash so that he had very little space to move away from my side. We were in a public park and lots of people were out, and the woman said within my hearing "God I hate Shepherds and sometimes I just wish I could let my dogs go at them." I COULD NOT BELIEVE SHE SAID THAT!!! And I wasn't sure exactly what she meant by it, but we just kept walking. He wasn't growling or barking or trying to get to her dogs, but some people just make me so mad.  He's a puppy! I hurried away from her and her dogs very quickly, not trusting her at all! Ronin never so much as looked back at them, and just continued on following me with no problems. I was so proud of him!


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> I always get the same comments. People can't believe how big he is for his age and how healthy he is despite the stomach upset. We took him for a walk last night a few hours after he had supper and he did just fine. No diarrhea, and he was walking like a champ most of the time. There was one instance where there were two dogs, both rotweillers and before we even got to them the owner was yelling at us that they didn't want our dog around theirs because they didn't like Shepherds. Now, I'm perfectly fine with abiding by their wishes, and made sure that Ronin was on the other side of me, away from them, with my hand firmly on his leash so that he had very little space to move away from my side. We were in a public park and lots of people were out, and the woman said within my hearing "God I hate Shepherds and sometimes I just wish I could let my dogs go at them." I COULD NOT BELIEVE SHE SAID THAT!!! And I wasn't sure exactly what she meant by it, but we just kept walking. He wasn't growling or barking or trying to get to her dogs, but some people just make me so mad. He's a puppy! I hurried away from her and her dogs very quickly, not trusting her at all! Ronin never so much as looked back at them, and just continued on following me with no problems. I was so proud of him!


Glad to hear he is doing better poop-wise.. lol! Good stuff!

Some people are plain and simple less intelligent than our GSDs. 

You know, there is a saying that goes like this: "Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." Just like that lady. Good for you for ignoring her. This is one of reasons why I stopped taking mine to the parks - the owners who shouldn't be allowed to own a pet (any! not just a dog).
Mine does the same thing though as yours, haha. Other dogs bark at him and he just walks, glances at them with the "is that all you got?" look, and keeps walking in silence. Yes! We should be proud of them


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> Glad to hear he is doing better poop-wise.. lol! Good stuff!
> 
> Some people are plain and simple less intelligent than our GSDs.
> 
> ...


Yeah I just ignore it because there is no point. Everyone else loves him and stop to pet him. He has a bit of fear of strangers though lately. It used to be that he would go right up to them, but lately, he runs away. I don't know when they exactly go a "fear period". Wondering if that could be the issue?


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> Yeah I just ignore it because there is no point. Everyone else loves him and stop to pet him. He has a bit of fear of strangers though lately. It used to be that he would go right up to them, but lately, he runs away. I don't know when they exactly go a "fear period". Wondering if that could be the issue?


It could be the adolescent shyness stage. I wouldn't call it fear, but being more careful/cautious. Just another stage of development Here is an interesting read about it:
" .... SHYNESS: Puppies that were previously happy and gregarious can become far more shy and hesitant toward new things. This is not necessarily a sign of bad temperament! It is Mother Nature’s way of keeping the puppy safe. In the wild, a puppy of this age would be going further afield and would be expected to participate in more of his own care. It is natural that a pup of this age will be more cautious about things in his life. If there have been “holes” in your early socialization program, this is when they will show up. During adolescence it is often necessary to take a step backwards in the socialization process and provide more positive experiences so that the teenage dog can really learn to become comfortable...."

K9 Station Dog Training & AuxArcs Australian Shepherds


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> It could be the adolescent shyness stage. I wouldn't call it fear, but being more careful/cautious. Just another stage of development Here is an interesting read about it:
> " .... SHYNESS: Puppies that were previously happy and gregarious can become far more shy and hesitant toward new things. This is not necessarily a sign of bad temperament! It is Mother Nature’s way of keeping the puppy safe. In the wild, a puppy of this age would be going further afield and would be expected to participate in more of his own care. It is natural that a pup of this age will be more cautious about things in his life. If there have been “holes” in your early socialization program, this is when they will show up. During adolescence it is often necessary to take a step backwards in the socialization process and provide more positive experiences so that the teenage dog can really learn to become comfortable...."
> 
> K9 Station Dog Training & AuxArcs Australian Shepherds


Thanks that is great! And exactly what he's going through I think. It's just something we're going to have to work on. Mind you, some people say "Awww it's a puppy!" really loud and rush over to him and he backs up and doesn't let them near him. I try not to let people do that, but sometimes I can't catch it in time depending on where we are and what we're doing.

Another thing he is doing is lunging at people when they walk on the sidewalk in front of our house. He's always on a leash! So I have control and pull him back, but he barks and growls and does it constantly. We are working on it. When he doesn't do it on the rare occasion, he gets praise and rewarded with a treat. Then the next instance he's back at it and we try it again, but he's not listening. He startles people because he is so large, but thankfully he hasn't scared anyone yet. Not sure how to correct this.

He's doing great on the lamb food too, btw. He loves it. Next up I might try the bison like you suggested. I have a bit of time to save up for it.


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## HappyGoLucky (Apr 7, 2016)

Ronin2016 said:


> Thanks that is great! And exactly what he's going through I think. It's just something we're going to have to work on. Mind you, some people say "Awww it's a puppy!" really loud and rush over to him and he backs up and doesn't let them near him. I try not to let people do that, but sometimes I can't catch it in time depending on where we are and what we're doing.
> 
> Another thing he is doing is lunging at people when they walk on the sidewalk in front of our house. He's always on a leash! So I have control and pull him back, but he barks and growls and does it constantly. We are working on it. When he doesn't do it on the rare occasion, he gets praise and rewarded with a treat. Then the next instance he's back at it and we try it again, but he's not listening. He startles people because he is so large, but thankfully he hasn't scared anyone yet. Not sure how to correct this.
> 
> He's doing great on the lamb food too, btw. He loves it. Next up I might try the bison like you suggested. I have a bit of time to save up for it.


Yeah, try bison 

It's kind of spooky to see how much our pooches are alike! I finally got him to not pay attention to people who walk by us or across the street. He used to lunge at people (mostly to sniff), when people come to us saying "how cute the puppy is" he would bark at them. 
For lunging at people - try and be more proactive. When you approach someone, don't wait for you to pass them, instead just face him away from the person(people), make him sit/stay and go in front of him, and practice: two-three steps back and call him to come and sit in front of you. Or just stay on the same spot and do down/sit/down/sit while someone is passing you. Basically the idea is to draw his attention from the passerby onto you - yes! It is more fun to be with my dad rather than some passerby. 
This part I finally got under control with humans, but he still lunges at passing by dogs sometimes. Not every time though. I'm thinking they might be other intact males and it's a competitive thing. But we are working on it.

As far as lunging at people who come to you to pet him - just say something like "Please wait, I'm training him.", then make him sit/stay and then say that it's ok to come and pet. 
I might be wrong, but what I think is happening is that he is not sure how to act and takes initiative by "shooing" people away from you. I.e. "I don't know you, strange human. Get away from us, this human is mine!". But when you make him sit ahead of time, it somewhat triggers the submissive part in him (following your command), and takes away any hints at leadership from him. So now he is much calmer and more accepting of strangers attention.
I actually did that at least 3-4 times already, and 2 of them were with little kids (you know how obnoxious they can be). The first time two kids just ran towards us that I barely had time to say "sit". I could tell he was not very comfortable but didn't bark or lunge at them and let them pet him (thank God! The last thing I want is scared parents contributing to the issue and yelling at us). The second pair of kids to my surprise asked if they can pet my pup. Of course I said "Just let me sit him" and then they came to us - worked like a charm and he was calm when they pet him.

Try some of this stuff, see if it helps you. I think the key to adjusting any behavior is timing and looking at the world through dogs eyes every once in a while. I sometimes catch myself thinking "Yep, if I were him I would probably do exactly the same thing."


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## Ronin2016 (Feb 18, 2016)

HappyGoLucky said:


> Yeah, try bison
> 
> It's kind of spooky to see how much our pooches are alike! I finally got him to not pay attention to people who walk by us or across the street. He used to lunge at people (mostly to sniff), when people come to us saying "how cute the puppy is" he would bark at them.
> For lunging at people - try and be more proactive. When you approach someone, don't wait for you to pass them, instead just face him away from the person(people), make him sit/stay and go in front of him, and practice: two-three steps back and call him to come and sit in front of you. Or just stay on the same spot and do down/sit/down/sit while someone is passing you. Basically the idea is to draw his attention from the passerby onto you - yes! It is more fun to be with my dad rather than some passerby.
> ...


I know! Spooky is the right word. We're working on the sitting outside and giving me his attention instead. But he's so stubborn it's a work in progress. Not to mention that my husband doesn't help train so he always seems to ignore the training I do and let him do what he wants. Back to square 1 I go. He doesn't lunge as much when walking because I just block him with my body if he doesn't listen to the sit command. It's the lunging at people in front of the house that worries me. We have a lot of elderly people in our neighborhood and he almost sent one into a heart attack the other day. I'm going to keep working on making him pay attention to me when we're outside and not the things around him. It's a lot of work working with a Shepherd, but I'm hoping that this will all work out once he's full grown.


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## dogdog (Aug 13, 2020)

[Could I be walking him too soon after he eats? I usually wait about 45-50 minutes before taking him if I can at night when I get home from work. Sometimes I take him about 20 minutes after in the morning but it's only because I have a limited time frame before I have to leave for work.]

I take my dog for walk about 20 minutes after he eats. But only walk not run I think when dogs eat they need time to digest their food just like human,. I also feed my dog with raw food and he does solid poop unless he is on kibbles. So mixed them up in the morning so he can also get some kibble in his system otherwise raw food by itself is very expensive.


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

Thread is from 2016 and the original poster has not logged on since 2017.

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