# Training at two different Clubs?



## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Since i am like 3 hours aways from most Schutzhund Activities I've been looking around and there are two Clubs that I'd be interested in. 

The one Club traines Wednesday and Saturday and has a Greg Doud Workshop on a monthly basis, the other one trains Wednesday and Sunday and has a Michael Ellis Seminar once a year. 

Now I can't possibly go out there during the week. It's too long of a drive and I'd get home around 1AM. It's just not going to happen. 

I do want to train at least twice a week and the only way would be to go to one Club on Saturdays and to the other Club on Sundays. 

It's actually common practice in Germany that you go to different clubs to benefit of the different training styles. 

Now I don't know how it is like in the US, if there are any rivalries between clubs or if it is okay to be a member of two clubs. Both are pretty much the same distance. 

What ya'll think?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Wow, you get to train with Greg once a month?! Nice. Michael Ellis is great too, but he's more a Mal guy.

I don't know about other areas, but around here you don't train at more than one club unless you know what you are doing and can direct your own training. Different clubs have different training styles and they can frequently conflict so you have to be able to pick and choose what you want to do.

I wish I could train with Greg that often, he's made a huge difference in the quality of training around here and he doesn't come nearly that often.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Mrs.K said:


> Now I don't know how it is like in the US, if there are any rivalries between clubs or if it is okay to be a member of two clubs. Both are pretty much the same distance.
> 
> What ya'll think?


The only thing that two trainers can agree on is that the third guy is an idiot 
I've often wondered this too... We have several clubs around here but I wouldn't want to step on any toes :blush:
I'd imagine that they'd get annoyed that the other trainer is "undoing" all of the advice you're given... unless their theories and methods actually work and don't need to be defended


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

What Elaine said. At least as far as the clubs around here go, you usually pick one. It's not really an issue of rivalries/competition, but a lot of people just aren't at the point where they can really direct their dogs' own training programs and going to multiple clubs can cause way more problems than it solves. Training is about quality, not quantity. Someone like me is better off training with one club on the weekend and maybe a weekday here and there if I can and then just training consistently on my own or with a few other members close by. It's not always beneficial to be using multiple training styles or putting a foundation on the dog with different helpers. Also I've seen people go one place and then come to our place and when we try to help them they will say, "but so-and-so does this...." or, "at the other club we do it this way...." Well, then go train with that club would be my answer. Also, depending on the club they may be looking for more of a commitment to the club and not just each person only looking out for themselves and their own training. When I was secretary of a club it was sometimes exhausting work, not just training my dogs but doing all the other work and helping everyone else. I can't imagine doing double that work by being in two clubs.

If both clubs are OK with it, and you are comfortable enough in your training to know what is best for your dogs without being pulled two different directions, then I don't see why you couldn't give it a try, but it depends on the clubs and where you are with your training.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Elaine said:


> Wow, you get to train with Greg once a month?! Nice. Michael Ellis is great too, but he's more a Mal guy.
> 
> I don't know about other areas, but around here you don't train at more than one club unless you know what you are doing and can direct your own training. Different clubs have different training styles and they can frequently conflict so you have to be able to pick and choose what you want to do.
> 
> I wish I could train with Greg that often, he's made a huge difference in the quality of training around here and he doesn't come nearly that often.


Yes, the training director said that he's coming out once a month but you have to pay extra which is totally fine with me. 

Well, I've been doing that all the time. That I picked whatever was best for the dogs and used it. My problem is that I need a trainer that can correct me because when you train alone all the time than you are start doing things wrong and probably not even noticing it. 

Once a week is just not enough, I have to do it twice a week but with that distance I can't go out there during the week so going to two clubs would be the only way to solve that problem. 

I will talk to them though.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Liesje said:


> What Elaine said. At least as far as the clubs around here go, you usually pick one. It's not really an issue of rivalries/competition, but a lot of people just aren't at the point where they can really direct their dogs' own training programs and going to multiple clubs can cause way more problems than it solves. Training is about quality, not quantity. Someone like me is better off training with one club on the weekend and maybe a weekday here and there if I can and then just training consistently on my own or with a few other members close by. It's not always beneficial to be using multiple training styles or putting a foundation on the dog with different helpers. Also I've seen people go one place and then come to our place and when we try to help them they will say, "but so-and-so does this...." or, "at the other club we do it this way...." Well, then go train with that club would be my answer. Also, depending on the club they may be looking for more of a commitment to the club and not just each person only looking out for themselves and their own training. When I was secretary of a club it was sometimes exhausting work, not just training my dogs but doing all the other work and helping everyone else. I can't imagine doing double that work by being in two clubs.
> 
> If both clubs are OK with it, and you are comfortable enough in your training to know what is best for your dogs without being pulled two different directions, then I don't see why you couldn't give it a try, but it depends on the clubs and where you are with your training.


That is very true. The commitment. I am not sure how I can commit since I am so far away. Of course I do want to be involved with the clubs. 

I guess checking them both out first and then make my choice would be the best way to do it.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would go to both a few times and then pick one. Me personally, I couldn't see myself being perfectly equal as far as how much I liked two clubs and the training. There's gotta be one that fits better with my dogs and how I train. Of those people I know that regularly attend two clubs, they are much more advanced than I (have titled several dogs, competed nationally), and often they are going to one club as a helper/trainer and then another to get their own dogs worked since someone has to work their dogs.

If you are worried about training by yourself during the week, again I'd keep to the "less is more" philosophy and ask the club to give you some "homework" where you can work on some very specific things and not get too far ahead of yourself without guidance.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Yeah, you are right. 

Also, there is a third club that has Debbie Zappia as the training director. Maybe I should check that one out. 

There are three very good clubs, each of them is over two hours away. I just need to find the right one. I can always go to the other Club to do a workshop here and there.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Mrs.K said:


> My problem is that I need a trainer that can correct me because when you train alone all the time than you are start doing things wrong and probably not even noticing it.
> 
> Once a week is just not enough, I have to do it twice a week but with that distance I can't go out there during the week so going to two clubs would be the only way to solve that problem.


You should be training on your own at home every day and using club training for learning new things and to correct any mistakes you might be making and for a spotter. It's like going to school and then coming home with homework. I know I want to just kick people that only train at the club and nothing in between because they aren't practicing so are wasting my time.

Greg is spendy, but so worth it.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Elaine said:


> You should be training on your own at home every day and using club training for learning new things and to correct any mistakes you might be making and for a spotter. It's like going to school and then coming home with homework. I know I want to just kick people that only train at the club and nothing in between because they aren't practicing so are wasting my time.
> 
> Greg is spendy, but so worth it.



I know, that is what I've been doing for a very long time. My problem is that I have not found the right trainer in Germany and once I did find him, he retired like half a year later. So we haven't had a trainer in half a year and I am pretty certain that there are quite a few things that need to be corrected. 

Yeah, Greg Doud sounds really good to me too. Even if you get to train with him every second months or every third month you benefit from it.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Mrs K, GSDElsa is now training with Debbie. I actually met her at training (I just went to watch) the weekend before Xmas. Although we didnt know who eachother was in person. If you want to ask her about anything with that club, just thought I would let you know.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I would find one club and go with it, even if that means training only once a week. 

Also, with young dogs and older, inexperienced dogs, I think it's better to have same helper week in and week out in the beginning.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

dawnandjr said:


> Mrs K, GSDElsa is now training with Debbie. I actually met her at training (I just went to watch) the weekend before Xmas. Although we didnt know who eachother was in person. If you want to ask her about anything with that club, just thought I would let you know.


Yes, I missed that day. I would have loved to come out and check it out. 

Tomorrow I am going to the one that trains once a month with Greg Doud. 

Thanks for the Info


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

It is in protection where the most "damage" can be done to your dog by training with two different clubs. Most helpers don't do things exactly the same and this can be very confusing to your dog. Unless you have the experience to totally control your training I would pick one club for now and do the best you can.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

dawnandjr said:


> Mrs K, GSDElsa is now training with Debbie. I actually met her at training (I just went to watch) the weekend before Xmas. Although we didnt know who eachother was in person. If you want to ask her about anything with that club, just thought I would let you know.


Haha, yes that was funny! 

Debbie is A-MAZING. I don't think there are many people who can touch her skills (and ability to translate it into stuff you can do on your own) in OB work after seeing it first hand and getting to work with her. The helper they are bringing out once a month seems stellar as well (although I have limited experience with judging good and bad helpers I've been very impressed with what I've seen).

What are the 2 other clubs you are considering? You can PM me if you don't want to post here. 

You can also PM me if you want more info about Debbie and the club. They can be a bit like the breed--kind of aloof...but they warm up nicely!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Interstate, Liberty and Empire are the three clubs I've been looking into. 

I'd love to come and see Debbie and aloof is the right word, I guess 

So when are you going out there the next time?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Ah, yes, I liked those two other clubs they are just too far. Debbie is only an hour and 10 min or so from me now so it's much more doable. But I think Debbie is probably the best you'll find who actually lives and trains around here all the time (not to say it would be the right fit for everyone).

I'm going to probably start going out on Tues nights for OB lessons--but the next protection weekend is going to be at the end of Jan (not sure if they set a date yet). They've been letting a fair amount of people interested in the club come out and hang out for those weekends--so maybe try then. Debbie usually does a couple lessons and then they do protection all day so you could get a feel for the whole shebang.

Debbie is super busy....I'd ask 2 things. 1. to set up a lesson with her privately and/or 2. ask if you could come out and watch the next time a protection weekend is going on. They are not really meeting as a club very regularily right now because Debbie (who's place is where they train) just made a move and has been renovating the place to accomodate it for training...and now it's middle of winter.

I'm super outgoing which I'm sure has helped. I have few qualms inserting myself in just about any conversation whether people like it or not :rofl:


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## Joker (Sep 15, 2006)

lhczth said:


> It is in protection where the most "damage" can be done to your dog by training with two different clubs. Most helpers don't do things exactly the same and this can be very confusing to your dog. Unless you have the experience to totally control your training I would pick one club for now and do the best you can.


What Lisa said is most important!!!!
Greg has been one of Debbie's helpers on and off for many years you get lotso Debbie with Greg however. Greg dose great helper work and is a by far the best teacher "was his real job" and coach I've trained with approaching 20 years now you will not be disappointed.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As I understand it, in DVG you can only belong to one club. If you want to train with another, that is at their discreation to let you or not. I live about 10 minutes from one. Any day I have off, I can practice on the field. We have started training one night as well as one weekend day a week but are off for the holidays. Training at two clubs would not work for me.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> It is in protection where the most "damage" can be done to your dog by training with two different clubs. *Most helpers don't do things exactly the same and this can be very confusing to your dog. Unless you have the experience to totally control your training *I would pick one club for now and do the best you can.


And unfortunately even having experience (the handler) doesn't stop some helpers from still doing what they want..

But I think Lisa nailed it with her comment about protection.. Definitely worth sticking with one club and the club that you'd get the most out of..


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