# Advice on Breeder



## patdowdjr (Jun 22, 2000)

Good Morning All - 

I was wondering if anyone has experience with Walsh's Windy Acres in Iowa - TN Old Style Large German Shepherd Breeder AKC Puppies TX.

I have already read all the posts recommending to stay away from this particular breeder, but I need to educate myself a bit more. I have PM'd a few folks that either got a pup from them or were thinking about it. The posts were a year ago so I'm not sure how active they are on the board.

Basically I'm looking for a dog that would be more of a family companion and that would some day do therapy work. I'm not particulary looking for a working dog, not interested in breeding, showing.

Please don't get me wrong, I have a TON of questions I would ask them prior to driving down there. I'm curious if anyone else has worked with them and what their experience was like, how the dog is doing, ect..

Thanks!
patrick


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

You're going to get a lot of opinions on this one. I might also suggest you review some of the very intense debates that have occurred in the past on this board in the breeding and bloodlines sections that surround the breeding of oversized "old fashioned" GSDs.

As a reminder to everyone before it gets started, bashing is NOT allowed and negative experiences or strongly negative opinions must be shared via PM. Commenting or stating opinions on facts or information presented to the public on a website.. such as presence or lack of titles and health clearances or appearance of the dogs.. can be shared, but must be done in a respectful manner. This is just a generic reminder and doesn't necessarily reflect on this breeder, it's just something that tends to happen frequently when breeder inquiries are made on the board.

-Admin


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

What exactly are you looking for in a GSD?

What kind of drives? What is your activity level?

What attracts you to Walsh's Windy Acres?


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Just curious, why does this particular breeder appeal to you enough for you to consider one of their pups? 

Is it proximity or other?


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

OK. here we go.
First, I do not have one of their dogs. This is just what I see.

#1 Their dogs are far outside of the GSD standards.
#2 I cannot find any of their breeding dogs in the OFA database, even though they say several of them have been OFA'd.
#3 They do nothing with their dogs except breed them. 
#4 They brag about 6 month old pups weighing 80+ pounds. That is absolutely horrible for growing bones.
#5 They "specialize" in breeding out of the standard oversized GSD's and breed long or short coat based on the clients preference. That really bugs me.
#6 They claim all of the breeding dogs are OFA'd or x-rayed. I can't find them in OFA and xrays don't mean much without certification.
#7 They breed "easy-going" shepherds, ie couch potato. That is not a shepherd. That is breeding for personal preference, not standard, and puts more shelter type pets out there.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

go read the thread on Shewanna - many of the same comments are going to apply to a breeder whose website advertises oversized dogs....breeding to produce dogs who are not within the standard is not IMO responsible breeding...it is a commercial business trying to appeal to a wide market who has no base of knowledge by which to compare the ideals of the breed to a commercial kennel.

There are always good pet pups available for companion homes in litters whose breeders are ethical and respect the integrity of the breed and whose goals are to breed to the standard. 

Lee


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Can someone please define what bashing is?????


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

holland said:


> Can someone please define what bashing is?????


Is it really that hard to figure out?

"I don't see any titles or health certs" = statement of fact based on publically available information the breeder chose to put out there and is allowed.

"This person is @#$% and breeding @#$% dogs and doesn't care about health or temperament" = bashing and opinion based on possibly erroneous assumptions, not fact.

"I don't agree with intentional breeding outside of the standard" = allowed statment of opinion.

"This person is @#$% and breeding @#$% dogs and doesn't care about the breed" = bashing and opinion based on possibly erroneous assumptions, not fact.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes it was really that hard to figure out


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

I found this on the OFA site but I don't know for sure whether or not it is their dogs:

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Bashing is telling the truth, if people don't want to hear it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

cliffson1 said:


> Bashing is telling the truth, if people don't want to hear it.


Bashing is also distorting facts in such a way that defames people; outright lying and making up stories and claiming they are the truth - and any kind of personal attack that is intended to hurt or harm someone. 

Compare information to the standard, stating facts regarding the rules and regulations of organizations, and disagreeing with practices that do not honor that standard or impinge upon the integrity of the standard is NOT bashing.

Lee


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Lol, I like where the thread went. But back to the breeder, I think that the large GSD's are cool, would I want one? No. It has something to do with the fact that its not the breed standard, and mostly because the temperment isn't very close to the breed standard. I could care less about the size, big is cool in my opinion, the only thing that would worry me is the health due to such a large abnormal size. And that would be my biggest reason for not getting one. Second would be the limited sport ability, I don't want a GSD to sit around and lounge.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

first off i wanna say Good Lord those dogs are huge! I mean wow. 

Second, my biggest concern would be health issues related to size. Since you're not looking for a sport dog and only a companion with an easy going temperment and probably less energy which is why i'm guessing you're looking at this breeder, then i dont think anything we say is really going to change your mind. But i dont know that for a fact. I personally would be iffy on getting one of their dogs because of the sheer size (and this is coming from one who LOVES big dogs) but they dont work their dogs in any sense that i saw. They're beautiful animals but what do they do all day?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

If you want a dog that large get a Leonberger . If you want a dog that mellow get a Leonberger . Don't keep ruining the GSD by customizing it to the whims of the consumer. What I don't like here is that they already have a number of females for breeding -- yet they are actively seeking foster homes to salt away more breeding animals . I assume under this arrangement they would provide a female for a fraction of the price but you are then obligated to breed, raise a litter , kick back all or most of the pups for the original breeder to sell. 
Carmen 
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

carmspack said:


> If you want a dog that large get a Leonberger . If you want a dog that mellow get a Leonberger .


I strongly agree with this. There are lots of big, laid-back, hairy dogs if that's what you want. Big hairy dogs are some of the hardest to adopt out at the shelter; there's probably lots of them at your local SPCA. Get a Leonberger, Pyranees, St. Bernard, etc. Don't :censor: up the German Shepherd breed more than it already is.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I strongly agree with this. There are lots of big, laid-back, hairy dogs if that's what you want. Big hairy dogs are some of the hardest to adopt out at the shelter; there's probably lots of them at your local SPCA. Get a Leonberger, Pyranees, St. Bernard, etc. Don't :censor: up the German Shepherd breed more than it already is.


:thumbup:


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Leonbergers are nice dogs...and I wonder what their discussions boards are like-heck maybe they don't even have one-Oh and some giant breeds do come in high drive


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

patdowdjr said:


> Good Morning All -
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has experience with Walsh's Windy Acres in Iowa - TN Old Style Large German Shepherd Breeder AKC Puppies TX.
> 
> ...


I have one of the "old fashioned type" GSD's, not from this breeder, but from another one, mine will not get as big as what this breeder says their dogs get, but will still be over standard.
You can pm me if you want some more info. I love mine and I'm glad I went with my breeder for my first GSD.


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## patdowdjr (Jun 22, 2000)

Hello Everyone,

Wow. Thank you very much for all of the great feedback. It seems that I have opened a huge can of worms. I certainly did not mean to do that and I am certainly not here to defame anyone.

Right now I am trying to do as much research as I possibly can. My Wife and I want a new pup and we need to be as educated as possible. Our boy Jack passed away of cancer a few weeks ago and to be very honest, I have no knowledge of his background. It’s a bit of a long story, but I got him through breeder in another part of the country and he went to them directly from Germany. Due to a dispute I had with them, they did not register him, I do not know the name of the breeder in Germany, and I do not know what lines he came from. I’ve got nothing except wonderful memories of the last 11 years of my life. All I can tell you is that he was a gorgeous black and red male that topped out at about 125 lbs, and he was not fat. He also had the most laid back demeanor I have ever seen. In his younger years, he certainly was active. I sent a few pictures to another breeder and they were very confident that he was from German show lines.

I have to admit, I have never heard of an “old style/fashioned” GSD breeder, which is why I’m asking questions. I’ve learned a lot over the last few days and I’m not sure that this would be the best option. My Wife found a similar breeder in the Midwest and there were red flags with them as well. They state on their site that “all parent dogs are OFA certified”, yet they have a male that has been bred multiple times already and he is about 18-20 months old right now (less than the 2 year mark)..Meaning that he was months younger at the various times he was used.

We are not necessarily looking for a large dog. First and foremost, the dog must be healthy. Beyond that, we would want a dog with an amazing temperament that at the same time would protect if needed. We would also like to train him to do therapy work. Not a mop when in the house, but not a tremendously high drive. Medium drive, if that even makes sense.

Thanks again and I will keep you in the loop with our search.

Patrick


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I love the old fashioned over sized GS. I believe some of Walsh's dogs are related to mine.

I'd expect her dogs to be generally healthy, long lived & biddable. They're personally not my choice though b/c I think (& I could be wrongWrongWRONG!) that the temperaments are consistently softer than what I want, with tendencies towards being over weight & lazy. Again, I could be wrong, so check further with the breeder on exactly what she produces, if the dogs appeal to you.

I'd also ask about OFA results. I'm almost certain she does OFA her dogs. If not, IMO, that's simply inadequate & I'd look further.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

"Old fashioned" GSD's are actually slightly smaller than what you see today- not 100+ lbs. though it is a common misconception. I would ask to see the OFA results of the parents of whatever litter you are looking at and if there are none run now. Aside from genetics environment and size play a huge role in hip dysplasia. The heavier the dog is the more likely they are to develop joint and hip problems down the road so keep that in mind. Even with OFA's size alone could lead to the same issues you want to avoid in a potential therapy dog


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

There are breeders whose over sized GSD are consistently long lived with excellent joint & structural integrity throughout their long, healthy lives. Given the background of these dogs, I'd expect them to be among those.

IMO, the old fashioned GSD has a level or nearly level back, rather than the extreme slant prevalent in ASL or the humped back that's popular in GSL. Truly old fashioned GSD were quite variable in size, including some that were very tall.

IF you're interested in this breeder, talk to her & arrange to visit her dogs if possible. Her dogs s/b ideally suited to therapy work. Although I've read frequent references to 'couch potato GSD' I've never met one. Every GS I've seen, regardless of lines & background, could easily keep up with even the most active, athletic families. There are very few breeds that are innately sedentary. GSD, regardless of the lines, aren't among them.


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