# dog attack



## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

this weekend i got an email from my grandmother who has a almost three year old pappilon (sp). suzi is a good dog, shes completely off leash, runs around the yard all day while my grandmothers outside & is friends & walk buddies with all the neighborhood dogs (they take walks together every day).

so my grandmothers outside with her dog, when a neighbors visitors walk by with their pit bull mix. suzi went up to meet her, & the dog lunged at her, basically tossed her around, bit part of her ear off before they could be torn apart, & then somehow attacked her again, gave her some more slight injuries & broke her leg, & then the owners finally got her off of my grandmothers dog. the owners were "very sorry" & are paying for all the vet bills, & are "considering putting their dog down".

how can these people have not held their dog enough so that it couldnt get back at my grandmothers dog? it irritates me, & especially that my grandmother isnt going to make sure something happens with those peoples dog. suzi is a sweet dog, she is not vicious at all & i dont understand how a dog owner can be so irresponsible as to not have their dog better trained or be able to contain their dog.

suzi is in "okay" condition, but has to be taken to a specialist for her leg. she had no internal injuries, thank god. she is scared to go outside now. i wish my grandmother had taken more initiative to call animal control or something..


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

First of all, let me say I'm so sorry your grandmother's dog got hurt, but if I understand what you are saying, her dog was loose and ran up to the dog being walked on leash. If this is the case, your grandmother is at fault. It doesn't matter that her dog is a micro dog or supposedly friendly. If she was the one that ran up and got into the other dog's face, it's her fault. If I was the owner of the other dog, I would be furious. 

I have been attacked while walking my dogs on leash twice this last week by people that have no control over their dogs. People have every right to walk their dogs on leash, no matter if they are dog aggressive or not, so long as they keep their dogs to themselves.

If the other dog was off leash and went after your grandmother's dog while on her property, then it was the other dog's fault. If they were both off leash and off her property, it was both their faults.


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## frenchie27 (Jan 12, 2008)

irresponsible people. your grandma's dog survived BUT what if it hadn't God forbid? Come on? why doesn't your grandma press charges? well probably in fear that they will retaliate huh? That sucks. People should be so much more careful. I feel for you and your grandma...


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## Ewilliams (Oct 17, 2007)

I am not defending the dog or the people in any way. But, I had a similar experience with an off-leash small dog (chihuahua) and one of my fosters who was on leash. My GSD was NOT at fault in any way, but I did end up paying the chi's vet bill to keep AC out of it.

The problem is that many of us have our dogs under complete voice control while off leash and we get comfortable with that. Then, if a strange dog comes by, all **** breaks loose. 

I hope your grandma's dog recovers well, but I think it a bit unfair to consider the other dog completely at fault. Just MHO.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

oh i know, i just dont think the dog could've done anything. when she met beamer, it took her like 20 minutes to even go near her.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: frenchirresponsible people. your grandma's dog survived BUT what if it hadn't God forbid? Come on? why doesn't your grandma press charges? well probably in fear that they will retaliate huh? That sucks. People should be so much more careful. I feel for you and your grandma...


i think my grandmother doesnt press charges because she is friends with the neighbors who had those people as visitors.


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## Mai (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother's dog but I have to agree with Elaine. I had a Siberian Husky who looked at small dogs as prey. We always walked her on leash but it was annoying when people would have tiny dogs they wouldn't walk on leash and they would always try to run up to her. I would redirect my dog and yell to the owner to get their dog on leash. I did this to avoid situations that could lead to incidents like the one you describe. You don't know a strange dog's temperament so although your grandmother's dog is friendly it should be protected from dogs that might not be so welcoming. But all in all it's very tragic and I'm sorry to hear it happen.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

thanks, sometimes i feel the same way. my grandparents have only had big dogs before & my grandmother treats suzi more like a kid then a dog, ive never seen her on a leash, even on walks, but at the same time, the incident occured in my grandmothers yard.


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## SJC72 (Apr 5, 2008)

It is a terrible tragedy what happened here, but like Elaine says this is not the fault of the pit-mix owner. This is why we have leash laws and unfortunately, they are usually not enforced or voluntairily followed. In all liklihood its good that your grandmother does not try and press charges, because she would not have a case to stand on.

Please do not think that I am attacking your grandmother, because I am not. But the facts are that if she had her dog on leash, then this never would have happened.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

I am so very sorry that this happened to Suzi. The dog did not deserve this.

Suzi's owner was not being responsible here. Her dog was offlead. She seems to not have adequate voice control over her dog-- no matter how many times she has been permitted offlead before. Took 20 mins to meet Beamer? If she is a bit timid and has fear issues, all the more reason to not permit her offlead where other dogs my walk by, even if they are onlead and she charges up. _This is not a dog who should be allowed to race right up into other dogs' space. _Her dog is an adult dog, small or not, and I would be furious if someone's small breed dog charges into my dog's face. (I know, the owner always claims it was only to say Hi) 

My best hope is, that this dog heals well. I wish her an easy, speedy, pain-free recovery. I also hope Suzi's owner is more responsible with her adult, small-breed dog and keeps her onlead until better control is established. My heart goes out to Suzi, may she feel well soon.


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## 4dognight (Aug 14, 2006)

The incident happened in her grandmothers yard Why is it not the fault of the pit mix owners I would be very angry if a dog came on my property and attacked one of my dogs. Suzi went up to meet her. If they knew their dog would eat a small dog then they should not have let the dog approach. I had a foster shepherd once that would eat anything the size of a JR down When folks wanted their small dogs to approach I said he dosen't like small dogs please stay back. Yes if the dog had been on leash she would not have approached this dog but again it was on her property. This is just sad not only for suzi but for the pit mix that may be put down. They were nice enough to pay the bills but the dog may pay with its life.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: 4dognightThe incident happened in her grandmothers yard Why is it not the fault of the pit mix owners


If I'm reading this right, the grandma had Suzi loose in her yard, the pit owners were walking their dog down the street or sidewalk, and Suzi left grandma's yard to visit with the neighbors and their pit.

While sad that this happened, some people are bound to jump to the conclusion that it must have been the fault of the large dog, especially if it's one of those "evil" pitbull things. But in this case, the pit was on leash, walking on a public access area, when the off leash little dog left it's yard.

The owners of the pit are not at fault. I don't understand the comments about why did they let hte little dog approach or their dog should have been under control? Sorry, but it was ON LEASH. How much more control do people expect? The dog that was out of control, and the owner that was responsible, is the one that was OFF leash and outside of it's own property.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Brightelf _This is not a dog who should be allowed to race right up into other dogs' space. _


NO dog should ever be allowed to do this. It doesn't matter how small or friendly it is. It is rude, irresponsible ownership to allow it to happen. And sooner or later, an incident like this is going to occur. The fact that the other dog was larger and stronger and thus was the one who inflicted the damage, doesn't make it the fault of that dog or it's owners.


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

Yep, I started carrying pepper spray on my walks around the neighborhood with Sheba last summer. She walks nicely by my side, but there were too many people who were letting their little dogs run loose on their property, and they would start running at us or following us.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

thanks everyone for your input, i never looked at it the way you all put. when i spoke to my grandmother on the phone, she said that they were in the yard, & that the dog had suzi pinned up against the fence in their yard (which like 5 feet from my grandparents driveway), so i just assume it occured on my grandparents property. while i agree suzi should be better trained to come, i dont think she should be kept on a leash in her own yard.

this was what my grandmother said in the email:

The dog tore into her twice--once John got her off, the dog tore free and attack her again. She was up against the fence--I was just hoping Suzi would crawl under it but she was paralyzed.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dog fights are awful and viscious. If one dog is on a leash and the other is loose it is pandemonium to get everyone under control. Even with two people there. 

I am sorry this happened. Both owners are probably very upset. 

While I agree that the leashed dog should not be blamed. The fact is that the owners of the pitt-mix have to realize that their dog is likely to have more fights if they walk it down the street. And it IS a liability. 

Should they euthanize it? No. It did not bite or kill a human without provacation. But they need to muzzle the dog when they go out with it. 

The fact is that too many people LET their dog run loose. I am not really faulting your grandmother. I let Arwen out in my front yard off lead because I trust her and she is under voice control. But if a loose dog charged into her, or it would be awful. If she charged into someone walking their dog (not likely on my street), I would be mortified, as it would be my fault. Chances are pretty good that my dog would have caused the damage too. 

So to the question as who is at fault, turn it around. Let say that the pitt mix was your Grandmother's dog, loose in the yard and ran to greet the little dog, Suzi who was properly leashed. Suzi was afraid for herself or her people, stiffened and growled and then snapped at the loose pitt mix. Who would be at fault when the pitt mix chomped down on the little dog? 

Dogs do not look at size when they decide to fight. The idea that a big dog shouldn't bite a little dog is a human mistake where human's saddle animals with human morals. 

I think that you will generally find that if a dog accosts someone and their dog while they are walking down the sidewalk, whether or not the dog's leash allows the dog in your property, the loose dog is at fault. Whether the court system is intelligent enough NOT to morph dogs into humans, is another story. 

I was walking with Arwen while my sister jogged ahead with Dubya -- who admittedly is a little dog aggressive. Anyway someone's poodle shot off their porch and right into Dubya, Lisa, and the leash. I was there in a shot. In fact, I do not know how I moved that fast. But Dubya (thankfully) did not bite the dog, thought if I recall, barking and snarling ensued. I think that we were all so startled. The homeowners apologized and everyone went away a little more cautious. (The dog's owners were friends of mine.) Had my dog bitten theirs, I would not have been at fault. The dog plowed into us. 

It is very nice that the dog's owners offered to pay the vet bill. I think that your grandmother can accept or not, but I think persuing it will not help anyone, and may be one more stone in BSL in her area. 

GSDs are not safe anywhere where BSL takes hold. 

Gross negligence should be prosecuted to the extent of the law. I do not see this as such. That is only my opinion.


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## Halen (Feb 16, 2007)

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. It's a bad experience all the way around. Yeah, your grandma shouldn't let her dog run loose (but if it was in her own yard?), the other dog's owners should have had better control. Things happen. We learn from them. It's just too bad we live in a society where SOMEONE has to take all the blame.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> 
> While I agree that the leashed dog should not be blamed. The fact is that the owners of the pitt-mix have to realize that their dog is likely to have more fights if they walk it down the street. And it IS a liability.
> 
> Should they euthanize it? No. It did not bite or kill a human without provacation. But they need to muzzle the dog when they go out with it.












Why is walking their dog down the street a liability? 
Why do these people need to muzzle their dog?


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

im sorry about your mother's dog while i also agree that she shoulda been leashed or chained. i would not allow my dogs to "greet" an unfamiliar dog without owners permission just for this reason. i dont want to deal with a dog fight issue nore deal with AC. its unfair to the Pitt mix owners that this happened.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Every now and then you suprise me with your opinions. 

It was not the Pit's fault because the Pit was leased and the other dog was not. Granted the little dog was out of control, but the little guys often are aggressive toward my leased German Shepherds, However, if they ever attacked, I would be very disappointed.

My GSD's sit, and I can deal with the ankle biters.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Timber1 However, if they ever attacked, I would be very disappointed.
> My GSD's sit, and I can deal with the ankle biters.


Same here. 

But I find it hard to swallow when someone is complaining about the lack of control in a dog who is ON leash, when the other dog in the situation was running around, OFF leash, and from the sounds of the initial post, left the yard to run up to a strange dog. Pot, meet Kettle....


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Timber1 However, if they ever attacked, I would be very disappointed.
> ...


Good analogy!

So sorry Suzi was hurt and glad she will be okay. Just hope grandma learns to keep her dog from running up on leashed dogs no matter how big or small.


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## Chloedancer (Mar 13, 2008)

I hope Suzi is okay. But, this is a huge pet-peeve of mine. I have to deal with small dogs, on a daily basis, off-leash and charging at my leashed GSD. 

I believe here, the law says dogs also have to be on-leash if not in a fenced yard or kennel. I totally approve of that but enforcing it is a major problem.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2008)

A dog on a leash is in their space. A dog off leash who runs up to the dog on leash has invaded their space. End of discussion.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with that. My understanding was that the people were walking down the sidewalk with a leashed dog and the little dog was in her yard and ran up toward the leashed dog, not having learned to be afraid of dogs. 

So the little dog MAY have remained in her own yard the entire time. 

When I walk my dog, I am on the sidewalk the dog is often on the grass. Not every street has sidewalks on both sides, so my dog is not necessarily on the tree lawn, it may be in someone's lawn, some other dog's territory. 

Whether that is the case here or not, I do not know, and it really doesn't matter. 

NO HUMAN BEING (that properly excludes dog fighters) wants to watch their dog rip another dog to pieces whoever is at fault. 

The fact is that people DO leave their dogs loose in their yards. They do let them loose in the neighborhood. They do drop the lead on occasion (I did that with Cujo a couple of times after my surgery). They do allow their dog's to slip their collars on occasion. 

Furthermore, EVERY bad mark against a dog on ANY of the lists is a propellent for BSL. 

These people know now that their dog WILL attack another dog seriously given the opportunity. If they ARE considering euthanizing the dog, they really do not want to face that eventuality. Because really, it is only a matter of time before another loose animal runs up to the dog. So the owners NEED to be proactive in order to keep their dog safe. 

Even though we dog people may not hold the bigger animal at fault in this situation, there is no guarantee that a court system bent on awarding damages to a poor pappion or yorkie owner. Better to be safe than sorry. 

If I owned the dog in this situation, I would muzzle it when I walked it to be safe, or I would keep it home.


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## cdonahue89 (Nov 9, 2007)

thanks for all of your input. im going to talk to my grandmother about keeping suzi on a leash while outside or on a lead attached to a tree (like we have beamer on when she is out with us)


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## bearlasmom (Sep 21, 2006)

being the owner of a pitbull and a gsd, i know the feeling of walking down the street and having sawed off little dogs come running at them looking for trouble. the problem is though that its the large dog that always takes the rap because they are large, people generaly stand and laugh and say how cute it is that their chihuhua or other small dog is for being a bad ass, running up to try to scare off the large dog. im really sorry your grandma had to go through this, and i hope the little one is okay. my daughter has a chihuha that thinks she is a gsd and i would hate to see something happen to her. when we are walking her or have her outside however whether we are at my duaghters, my home, or the cottage, we DON NOT ALLOW HER TO CHASE OTHER ANIMALS. it is not cute, its not funny and when its allowed they end up getting maimed or killed. its unfortunate. 

on the other hand though the pit WAS ON a leash and attacked. its sad, i may face putting our old man pit down because as he gets older, he becomes predatory and he was never like that. he has been diagnosed with doggie dementia and it breaks my heart because he has even tried circling my grandbaby. he chases off out the door and down the street if he sees another dog or animal. i cant be risking that type of behavior and i can understand why the owners want to put the pit down in a way but on the same hand the little one needs major training before he becomes a large dogs lunch. large dogs can be trained as well as you want them but ill wager taht even a K9 dog would bite or lunge at another animal that comes running at it, acting in a nasty fashion.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I too have a pet peeve about unleashed dogs. I live in a suburban neighborhood and I walk a lot so I'm constantly encountering them. I've only had really bad situation years ago in another state when a small unleashed dog left its yard, crossed the street, and attacked the Shepherd mix I was walking. My dog attacked back. End result - $250 damage to their dog and permanant scarring on my hand where their dog bit me while I was breaking up the fight. The kicker? Perception was it was my dog's fault because he was bigger. 

Since then I've gotten better at repelling the anklebiters. One guy actually had the insanity to suggest that I just let my GSDs go for his dog to "teach it a lesson." I used my "expanded vocabulary" for him. Luckily this was Grace and Leo so they were like "um, whatever little dog." 

One of the dogs I walk (semi permanant foster) is very afraid of other dogs. I do not consider him a liability but he gets fear aggressive when rushed by loose dogs, especially big ones which we also seem to get assaulted by a lot. I love dogs so I hate to be this way but these days when we're approached by a strange dog, whether it looks friendly or not, I pull my dog to the opposite side of me and start yelling "GO HOME GO HOME!!!!" at the top of my lungs. if that is ineffective, my foot comes out and I start swinging. I know my dogs can handle themselves but I don't want to put them in that position. Thankfully, most dogs will back off when you start yelling at them. I don't let them get anywhere near us if I can help it. I don't want to be trying to break up a multi dog fight with an unleashed and unknown animal by myself. 

Sounds like this situation wasn't so clear cut and mistakes were made on both sides but bottom line - we've got to be super careful with our dogs (both large and small) and protect them from themselves and others.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Bearlasmom - have you had your pup's thyroid levels checked? There have been some interesting threads on here about the connection between wonky thryoid and aggressive behavior. Even when they blood test normal, I think there are still things that can be tried. Obviously, I have no idea if that's his problem but might be something to explore. 

We saw something similar with one of our dogs where a previously very unaggressive dog suddenly get very predatory. Gave meds and she returned to normal.


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## Tankers (Apr 25, 2008)

I do agree people should keep their dogs leashed,it is dangerous to everyone,including the dog itself.I have three dogs and my shepherd is dog aggressive,I can't walk my dogs down my street at all,there are these people that have a pit that runs loose.It is nice but i am afraid of it getting hit by a car,I think people with dogs that are aggressive should be responsible with their animals.My dog is muzzled when taken anywhere for safety,he warms up to people once he gets to know them but has never liked other dogs.Luckily for the pit,we called the apl and other people called the police,the poor dog was chained outside with no water in 80 degree weather,they gave the dog over to the people down the street from me and he is leashed and being taken care of.Yay.


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## bearlasmom (Sep 21, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqBearlasmom - have you had your pup's thyroid levels checked? There have been some interesting threads on here about the connection between wonky thryoid and aggressive behavior. Even when they blood test normal, I think there are still things that can be tried. Obviously, I have no idea if that's his problem but might be something to explore.
> 
> We saw something similar with one of our dogs where a previously very unaggressive dog suddenly get very predatory. Gave meds and she returned to normal.


they ahve done alot of tests on my old man. he is 12, he has numerous small tumors all over his body, the most recent cycst like tumor is on top of his sweet black head. he has hip and shoulder issues where arthritis has set in and he has dementia. his liver is failing, as are his kidneys. he is loosing control of his body functions and he can literally pee for 5 mons straight (we have timed him at the vets and on other occasions. He moves slow and painfully when he wakes up and although he will take off running to try to chase an animal, he stops within 20 or so feet because of pain. his eyes are almost sightless. one eye has a white cloud now. so all in all, old age is getting the best of him. 









i know the day is coming when i have to let him go, i havent done it yet because he still wags his tail and tries to interact. he loves my baby grand daughter and when the dementia isnt gettting the best of him, he worships her as he does me. he follows me everywhere, hes always crying wehn i leave apparently to go to work and the kids have pics oc him staring out the window, trying to see where i have gone and that he sat there for 3 1/2 hrs straight waiting. hes my boy and my boy only, as anyone who owns a pit well knows. they only pick one person that they solely worship. i rescued him at a very young age, he was only a couple of wks old, so to him, im moma. i love him, maybe not in the same way as i do bearla nor as much intensity but i do love his little soul. i just have to choose between the safety of my grandchildren and the cleanliness of my house or him, and if he becomes worse, i will have to do it. i keep wishing god would take it out of my hands, and take him for me. i just feel uncertain with predatory behavor that has never been there before. 
so what i am saying here pupresq
is taht i wish a treatment were avail, i really wish there was, but .....


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## bearlasmom (Sep 21, 2006)

when i did still take my old man for walks, i muzzled him, even before the muzzle laws came in with the pitbull ban. when i took him to vets, he is muzzled, if we have certain family members over, he is muzzled. (the baby or otbearla her family members he is known to try to butt heads with or try to 'sample' shall we say. bearla is muzzled when we go to the vet, she is becoming less and less vet aggressive now that we work with her constantly and keep taking her for weigh ins, but she is muzzled. with people she meets for the first time. she likes to pretend she s tough an will bark until i tell her its not acceptable. i dont believe it taking a chance with any animal that has ever shown aggression whether its fear based or otherwise. cesar malones book, cesars way is a great book for training but then thats a whole other forum


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## Helly (Mar 31, 2008)

Our lab mix is perimeter trained. He absolutely will NOT leave our front yard. When we are working in the front yard he is out off leash and in 10 years he has never rushed a dog that came into our yard...it took a LOT of work to train him...our GSD pup is always on leash in the front yard and until he is perimiter trained he will stay that way.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I think the thing with the thyroid problems is that they are sometimes attributed to dementia.


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