# 20 week old puppy peeing whenever touched.



## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

So this problem has started within the last three/four weeks with me and it has been a constant thing towards my boyfriend.
Our puppy is to the point you can't touch her, sometimes not even look at her, put a leash on her, let her out of her crate, and many other things without peeing. Even if we dont make any eye contact and open the crate she will come out and pee.
We have had to keep the crate in the kitchen to avoid ruing carpets.
We have tried several different approaches to try and fix the problem. From straight ignoring it and taking her outside to giving her a treat as we walk by the crate before we take her out. Nothing is working and it seems to be getting worse. I've even tried asking her to go into a sit/shaking paws, laying down, and other things to distract her from peeing (which worked for a while until she just basically started peeing on herself) 
We haven't done anything to the puppy to make her scared of us hasn't been hit or anything like that. She was always wonderful about not having general accidents in the house so it isn't a house breaking problem.
I've read many and many forms and we have tried everything with no luck.
It is really stressing and almost making me regret getting a puppy I've had many GSD puppies throughout the years and never had this problem. I've had a couple that would pee when excited, but this isn't excitement. Definitely submissive peeing, however, nothing we have done is helping this.
You name something we have problem tried it. I kind of blame myself for being stupid and not purchasing from a reputable breeder...
I'm just wanting to know if anyone else has had a problem this extreme and has over came it.. I need to see some light in the tunnel.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

I have also from the time we got her spent a lot of time on the floor playing with her, taking her places with me, and overall just spending a lot of time training and socializing her.
I talked to the vet who was absolutely no help and just gave me a hand out of things I have already been trying.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

How do you react when she piddles?


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

gsdsar said:


> How do you react when she piddles?


Pretty much nothing just taking her outside. That's how we have been doing it. We say nothing to her don't really even look at her and take her outside and give her praise when she goes outside (which we stopped doing the praise because it just makes her pee again).


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

gsdsar said:


> How do you react when she piddles?


We started with no physical contact at all after the incident and letting her walk outside, but lately she hasn't been listening good off leash so we have had to put the leash on which 9 times out of 10 results in her peeing again.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Most dogs grow out of it by the time they hit 7-8 months. My general MO with dogs like that is ignore it but I take special steps to try to get them outside to potty before making physical contact and sometimes before eye contact. 

You're trying to minimize the chances the event happens because you don't want people to become a classical conditioned cue to submissive urinate that lasts into adulthood. After they pee sometimes you can play a little rough with them to get them to toughen up a little. Pretend to lose to them that sort of thing. Make em feel good. Keep excited greetings from happening always be super matter of fact on greetings and don't get them excited. This kind of thing is mostly grown out of. You just need to do your best to avoid or mitigate triggers.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Baillif said:


> Most dogs grow out of it by the time they hit 7-8 months. My general MO with dogs like that is ignore it but I take special steps to try to get them outside to potty before making physical contact and sometimes before eye contact.
> 
> You're trying to minimize the chances the event happens because you don't want people to become a classical conditioned cue to submissive urinate that lasts into adulthood. After they pee sometimes you can play a little rough with them to get them to toughen up a little. Pretend to lose to them that sort of thing. Make em feel good. Keep excited greetings from happening always be super matter of fact on greetings and don't get them excited. This kind of thing is mostly grown out of. You just need to do your best to avoid or mitigate triggers.


The issue with her is basically EVERYTHING is a trigger. I mostly can't come in contact with this dog without it happening.
Before I let her out when we get home I wait 10-15 mins. If she is already out and just in a certain mood even taking her outside or touching her is like walking on pin needles. 
I will literally not speak to her turn my back and loop the leash over her head and by time of slowly doing all that she will have already peed. We won't touch her or look at her. I don't know what to do to avoid it from happening because I literally have as less contact with her as I can while still trying to take her out.


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## JaydeY (Apr 12, 2017)

Do you want to try hand-feeding her while petting her? She can't be peeing while eating right? Maybe try throw treats at her for eye contact? Does she look at you when you say her name? Also maybe try carrying her outside? I know it sounds counter-intuitive but I have yet known a dog who pees while being carried. I am no expert but best of luck!


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Have you already checked her for a UTI?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Proin? Water schedule?


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Fodder said:


> Proin? Water schedule?


Her food and water are controled and not given at will. So she has a potty schedule and she is wonderful about keeping that too, unless she's submissive peeing.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Baillif said:


> Have you already checked her for a UTI?


I mentioned this to the vet they told me because she's not having accidents other than being touched it wasn't that. Basically blew me off and didn't do the test to at least rule that out. However, it does make sense for that to not be the problem. If so I figured she'd constantly soil her crate and pee in the house whenever.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

JaydeY said:


> Do you want to try hand-feeding her while petting her? She can't be peeing while eating right? Maybe try throw treats at her for eye contact? Does she look at you when you say her name? Also maybe try carrying her outside? I know it sounds counter-intuitive but I have yet known a dog who pees while being carried. I am no expert but best of luck!


I have done handfeeding, but haven't had much time lately to do so, she does look at me when I call her name and if she's in a certain mood she'll come up and just pee, and I haven't tried carrying her outside since she was just a few weeks old. However, she would probably pee when I went to pick her up... I'm just at a loss on what to do ? feels like I've tried everything.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Fodder said:


> Proin? Water schedule?


Well I should say I never fill her water bowl up all the way and it is taken away an hour or so before bedtime.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Disclaimer: I'm not a trainer or a behaviorist. What I would try if you have a fenced yard. Put the crate as near the door outside as possible. Open door to outside, then open crate and let her go out on her own. Follow her out once she is out the door. Praise when she goes potty in the appropriate place (outside). Then I would take a few minuted to engage in some bonding. A game of fetch or some tug letting pup win. I would talk a lot to her in a fun, happy tone the whole time. Or just some petting (if the pup pees it's no big deal you are outside). Practice putting on the leash and letting her just walk around dragging it while you supervise. Again if she pees while you leash her it's no big deal if you are already outside. When outside time is over continue the bonding immediately inside with talking casually to her, petting etc. for a few minutes. Just an idea of something to try if you haven't already.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

You really need to get a Vet Check to rule out as was stated a "UTI." Then if it's not medical, then yes it's behavioural and it most likely is behavioural but you don't really know??

If it's not medical ... then yes it's behavioural so what to do??? You could make your life a bit easier by using a diaper.

Washable Dog Diapers | Dog Diapers | Doggy Diapers | Handicapped Pets

And from there I'm gonna still a march on "bailiff" and suggest you start to work on training "Place" and doing "Sit on the Dog." Those things help to "train calmness" into a dog and should be done in anycase. Maybe those things will help going forward???

Place and Sit on the dog are here.:

http://www.boxerforums.com/training/183298-fearful-anxious-flat-crazy-place-command.html


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> You really need to get a Vet Check to rule out as was stated a "UTI." Then if it's not medical, then yes it's behavioural and it most likely is behavioural but you don't really know??
> 
> If it's not medical ... then yes it's behavioural so what to do??? You could make your life a bit easier by using a diaper.
> 
> ...


Can you please explain how sit on the dog, or place would help a dog that is possibly urinating out of fear or submission?


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Can you please explain how sit on the dog, or place would help a dog that is possibly urinating out of fear or submission?


I don't need to explain ... it's in my thread. 

But as of three or four years ago this is what I found and this info is in the thread I just linked.
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
Energy ? Dream Dogz

And I learned of it here from a couple of members, that were willing to share what they know. Frankly as I saw it back then ... no one here seemed to take much notice?? But I saw the value and took what I learned "here" to where it would be better appreciated.  

It's a technique that's about 50 years old as of today. Frankly I was more interested in "Place" than "Sit on the Dog" as that was more actively doing something, but what the hey ... you never know when something will be useful?? I had an opportunity to try it with a "Fear of People Boxer" and I was stunned at the difference it made?? I was even more surprised when I started getting PM's asking me about it???

It's useful for all dogs and especially useful for dogs with "Behavioural Issues." It's up to the individual to decide if it's useful for them and there dogs, not my call. It's not my policy to tell people who to belive ... others of course can do as they see fit.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I don't need to explain ... it's in my thread.
> 
> But as of three or four years ago this is what I found and this info is in the thread I just linked.
> Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
> ...


But that doesn't answer my question. The issue is having the dog leave the crate and not urinating.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> But that doesn't answer my question. The issue is having the dog leave the crate and not urinating.


Oh ... I see, now I better understand your question. 

Assuming it's a non medical issue?? Then no "Sit on the Dog" is not gonna fix that issue over night. Submissive urination is just not an issue your gonna fix thru "Corrections." But if the dog/puppy is simply nervous or fearful, then "Sit on the Dog" would be a process, that can help the dog learn to cope by better learning to do nothing. It is what "I" would do if I had this issue but, hey I don't have a vested interest, just sharing what I know. But ... a quick Google search ... shows most likely pretty much what the OP has already tried??

Training to Stop Submissive Urination in Dogs

And the one thing I do know, is that if you've already tried something ... and it's not working ... then do something different.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

try some breathing exercises or something to calm yourself down before you interact with your dog the first time for sure. I sense there is some major projection going on. As you are avoiding your eyes turning your back, moving slow....thinking... "my dog is about to pee and there is nothing I can do about it." So calm yourself. Obviously there are more underlying issues but this will help. 

I am a Law of Attraction type of person though. "thoughts become things." Next time you go to let your dog out, tell yourself, out loud, and your dog, that business will be handled the right way today... Say it like it already happened...Thats a mental side of it...

Maybe next time you leash her... Lay on the ground while you do it. Get low on her level or lower. 

also, this is a frustrating thing. Frustrations lead to anger, anger leads to a scared puppy. clear your heads before interacting. Stay positive. It'll most likely work itself out but can lead to a huge problem if it compounds.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Oh ... I see, now I better understand your question.
> 
> Assuming it's a non medical issue?? Then no "Sit on the Dog" is not gonna fix that issue over night. Submissive urination is just not an issue your gonna fix thru "Corrections." But if the dog/puppy is simply nervous or fearful, then "Sit on the Dog" would be a process, that can help the dog learn to cope by better learning to do nothing. It is what "I" would do if I had this issue but, hey I don't have a vested interest, just sharing what I know. But ... a quick Google search ... shows most likely pretty much what the OP has already tried??
> 
> ...


So essentially flooding the dog will help it overcome it's submissive behavior? Seems that would be counterproductive.  @Lexi GSD Do you always use a leash with your dog? How do you do corrections? You like to train, how do you train?
I'd be building this dog up with off leash play, and rewarding verbally, and treats. Sometimes too much training is not the best thing.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> So essentially flooding the dog will help it overcome it's submissive behavior? Seems that would be counterproductive.


Huh ... "flooding???" That's an interesting spin?? As I understand "Flooding." 
Flooding Therapy for Dogs is an old technique that must only be done properly, i

There is no "outside stimulus" here to be exposed to??? And in anycase "Sit on the Dog" would be in addition to not exclusive of well ... the thinngs you stated doing. Sometimes ... less is more.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Huh ... "flooding???" That's an interesting spin?? As I understand "Flooding."
> Flooding Therapy for Dogs is an old technique that must only be done properly, i
> 
> There is no "outside stimulus" here to be exposed to??? And in anycase "Sit on the Dog" would be in addition to not exclusive of well ... the thinngs you stated doing. Sometimes ... less is more.


You are taking a dog that is uncomfortable and forcing it to be next to you for 30 minutes or so. Essentially its flooding.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Oh ... I see, now I better understand your question.
> 
> Assuming it's a non medical issue?? Then no "Sit on the Dog" is not gonna fix that issue over night. Submissive urination is just not an issue your gonna fix thru "Corrections." But if the dog/puppy is simply nervous or fearful, then "Sit on the Dog" would be a process, that can help the dog learn to cope by better learning to do nothing. It is what "I" would do if I had this issue but, hey I don't have a vested interest, just sharing what I know. But ... a quick Google search ... shows most likely pretty much what the OP has already tried??
> 
> ...


Chip. I'm reading one of these links, and I'm confused. If this is truly a submissive dog, why would you advise to be more dominant with the dog:
"This is an exercise in leadership and dominance. You are supposed to be the dominant one and the leader. As such, you are the one who decides where the two of you will be and for how long and it is not a voting matter. This is an exercise in patience. Something every dog must learn if it is to survive to live a comfortable life. There are no maximum time lengths for this exercise. However, the minimum time is 30 minutes. The exercise should be practiced twice per day, every day. The dog must be wearing collar and leash when doing this exercise."


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

I've tried most of what you've mentioned. However, I do not have a fenced in yard and she no longer will listen if she sees someone else walking their dog. 
I will have to try the playing with her outside after pottying more consistent and see if that helps.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

I think I've spoken with you about sit the dog before and we have been doing that... it is all confusing I don't know... it pays to get a dog from a reputable breeder I've never had to deal with this before.
I will though go up there and have them run a test if they refuse and blow me off I'll just switch vets, but I don't think she has one but I would like to 100% rule it out


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

I've tried everything in that article as I've stated and she's still continuing to have problems, actually she's getting worse.
I'll probably end up sending her to a behaviorist, because I've literally tried everything mentioned.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

cloudpump said:


> So essentially flooding the dog will help it overcome it's submissive behavior? Seems that would be counterproductive.
> @Lexi GSD Do you always use a leash with your dog? How do you do corrections? You like to train, how do you train?
> I'd be building this dog up with off leash play, and rewarding verbally, and treats. Sometimes too much training is not the best thing.


No I actually didn't start using the leash a lot, aside from a couple walks a day, until the past week because she's began to ignore my commands. We have a huge field/yard and we normally do a bit of training each day off leash (until she started to ignore me) sit-stays, down-stays, fetch, and things along those lines. 
I haven't really had to correct her much on anything other than if she ignores me I'd gently put her into a sit (haven't had to do that in a while). We have a little dirt pile we would go run up and down and play on, we would play chase let her chase me with the ball then I'd chase her with the ball (she liked doing that) and we would come back and I'd sit down with her by the TV lately though I haven't been able to do any of these things without her peeing somewhere in-between.
I've tried throwing her treats every time I walk by the crate and take her out, also when she pees appropriately I give her a treat. Nothing seems to work.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Casto said:


> try some breathing exercises or something to calm yourself down before you interact with your dog the first time for sure. I sense there is some major projection going on. As you are avoiding your eyes turning your back, moving slow....thinking... "my dog is about to pee and there is nothing I can do about it." So calm yourself. Obviously there are more underlying issues but this will help.
> 
> I am a Law of Attraction type of person though. "thoughts become things." Next time you go to let your dog out, tell yourself, out loud, and your dog, that business will be handled the right way today... Say it like it already happened...Thats a mental side of it...
> 
> ...


Yea I turn my back and don't make eye contact because it makes her more uncomfortable when I face her I'm more dominate looking there's not projection going on there's the fact that I know what will maker her pee. 
I've tried sitting on the floor and putting the leash on her she will still pee and sometimes halfway get in my lap and pee. I never show her that I"m angry about it because I know that'll obviously scare her more and make things worse.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Chip. I'm reading one of these links, and I'm confused. If this is truly a submissive dog, why would you advise to be more dominant with the dog:
> *"This is an exercise in leadership and dominance. You are supposed to be the dominant one and the leader. As such, you are the one who decides where the two of you will be and for how long and it is not a voting matter. This is an exercise in patience. Something every dog must learn if it is to survive to live a comfortable life. There are no maximum time lengths for this exercise. However, the minimum time is 30 minutes. The exercise should be practiced twice per day, every day. The dog must be wearing collar and leash when doing this exercise."*


Aww ... my bad. 

And thank you for pointing that out! In over 3000 views and numerous e-mail ... no one has ever mentioned ... thirty minute minimum??? But as they say ... the only thing that three dog trainers will agree on is that one of them is wrong! 

I don't view or use "Sit on the dog" as an Exercise in Dominance??? That strikes me as "silly???" I'm not interested in "battling with my dog." I tried that with Rocky "battling" ... it did not work out so well. When I have been asked about "Sit on the Dog" I would say ... start with 5 minutes and build up from there, so for me 30 minutes is a goal not a minimum. 

I am not a "Pro" so one dog at time with rescues works for me as ... I'm not in a hurry. So however long it takes to make it to 30 minutes ... is no big deal to me. As I don't view "Sit on the Dog" as an exercise in Dominance??? 

Thank you for pointing that out! As when asked ... I would say "5" minutes to start and 30 minutes is a "Goal" especially with a puppy! Sigh ... I don't feel the need to rewrite freaking articles from "Pro's." But I suppose ... I'd add an addendum to that thread to include my two cents. 

Still when I did "Sit on the Dog" with a "dog" not a "puppy" it was longer than 30 minutes and it worked out fine. And I barely said a word to the dog worked out fine, so there is that that.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

All it is is a long down. People have been doing this for years, long before that author wrote about it. I don't see how it would help this situation.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Aww ... my bad.
> 
> And thank you for pointing that out! In over 3000 views and numerous e-mail ... no one has ever mentioned ... thirty minute minimum??? But as they say ... the only thing that three dog trainers will agree on is that one of them is wrong!
> 
> ...


So what does it exactly do? I don't see where this would benefit a dog, other than capping. 
I feel like place and sit on the dog are akin to hog-tying a dog as opposed to actually training that dog to handle situations. Obviously no one should have to fear having guests over, but teaching a good focus, or utilizing a crate would be better for the dog than shutting the dog down.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> All it is is a long down. People have been doing this for years, long before that author wrote about it. I don't see how it would help this situation.


There is a "distinction" between "Place" and "Sit on the Dog." 

In a nutshell with "Place" a properly trained dog, you can point and say "Place" if the need is there to add "Place" as a verbal?? You can't do that with "Sit on the Dog" it's pretty much that simple. 

Op has already stated "Sit on the dog" did not seem to helpful?? Good enough ... so my post here was merely just to be clear on the difference between the two. 

As my one "easy dog" clearly understands the distinction ... I'm good.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Did I mention Place? If you don't understand, read The Monks of New Skete, the Art of Raising a Puppy.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> So what does it exactly do? I don't see where this would benefit a dog, other than capping.
> I feel like place and sit on the dog are akin to hog-tying a dog as opposed to actually training that dog to handle situations. Obviously no one should have to fear having guests over, but teaching a good focus, or utilizing a crate would be better for the dog than shutting the dog down.


Hmmm Ok it's my turn to be confused??? Shutting the dog down is "your" interpretation of those techniques??"

My understanding and experiance, is that they train calmness into a dog. All the trainers that deal with dogs with "Serious Freaking Issues" do and train those techniques. Those are the trainers I follow .. I don't care what other "Trainers" do. As I have done "itS on the Dog" on the dog with rescues and got one of them adopted the following week ... "I'm" good. 

But you know ... I suppose reasonable advice, is for people not to get rescues and don't do BYB puppies, get a quality puppy from a quality and breeder and for the most part ... they won't have to worry about the difference?? I'd of course have to add ... good luck with that.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Ok, so I am going to throw out a crazy idea. Just forget about it for a bit, let her out of her crate and have a big ole party, totally ignore the pee but show her how happy you are to be with her, when she comes over, show her how happy you are to see her. You guys have been trying everything to decrease the piddle problem and its probably freaking out your puppy. You wont give her eye contact, you ignore her in the crate and when coming out of the crate. She is just trying to tell you that she is a good girl, hence the peeing. But you are always ignoring her, so she tries harder.

So get a carpet cleaner and just show her how wonderful she is, give her some confidence in your love and affection and deal with the piddle for a few weeks, get her out, get her doing things let her be a full part of the family and stop being upset by her show of "im a good girl, see i am submissive, love me" You are unknowingly making such a huge deal of the piddle issue that its making it a bigger issue.

I know, crazy idea. But submissive urination is only solved by raising a confident puppy. Give them something to succeed at, all the time.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

That is too simplistic. Every dog needs training. And every dog has some problems. Some of the best bred dogs are extremely high drive and take a skilled owner to handle them. The difference is an experienced owner has learned to handle them. I'm glad the OP shared her problem and is looking for solutions. I had a submissive dog and I gave the dog confidence through many experiences. I had help even though I was experienced because I had never had a dog like that before.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

gsdsar said:


> Ok, so I am going to throw out a crazy idea. Just forget about it for a bit, let her out of her crate and have a big ole party, totally ignore the pee but show her how happy you are to be with her, when she comes over, show her how happy you are to see her. You guys have been trying everything to decrease the piddle problem and its probably freaking out your puppy. You wont give her eye contact, you ignore her in the crate and when coming out of the crate. She is just trying to tell you that she is a good girl, hence the peeing. But you are always ignoring her, so she tries harder.
> 
> So get a carpet cleaner and just show her how wonderful she is, give her some confidence in your love and affection and deal with the piddle for a few weeks, get her out, get her doing things let her be a full part of the family and stop being upset by her show of "im a good girl, see i am submissive, love me" You are unknowingly making such a huge deal of the piddle issue that its making it a bigger issue.
> 
> I know, crazy idea. But submissive urination is only solved by raising a confident puppy. Give them something to succeed at, all the time.


I like this idea. If there is going to be pee no matter what, might as well just start building confidence and engagement! Sometimes commands are not the answer.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Hmmm Ok it's my turn to be confused??? Shutting the dog down is "your" interpretation of those techniques??"
> 
> My understanding and experiance, is that they train calmness into a dog. All the trainers that deal with dogs with "Serious Freaking Issues" do and train those techniques. Those are the trainers I follow .. I don't care what other "Trainers" do. As I have done "itS on the Dog" on the dog with rescues and got one of them adopted the following week ... "I'm" good.
> 
> But you know ... I suppose reasonable advice, is for people not to get rescues and don't do BYB puppies, get a quality puppy from a quality and breeder and for the most part ... they won't have to worry about the difference?? I'd of course have to add ... good luck with that.


Where did I say not to get byb puppies, or rescues? 
If you are referencing another thread, then don't beat around the bush. And to highlight what I think you mean, the person asked a question that was answered. Without bashing any dogs. 
Your expert trainer's are no better than the expert trainer's I go to. The difference is, my trainers don't need to be the loudest voice on the internet shouting out advice that doesn't address the dog in front of them. They also enjoy their dogs as opposed to having robotic dogs. I know you'll take that personally, so I'll point out that I'm not insulting Rocky, or strudel. I'm referencing jg. Who laughs about a dog crying out when he throws a bonker at the dog. Or pops a dog so hard with a prong it cries out. Its one thing to use corrections. It's another to pound a dog into submission and have it afraid when you walk in the room. 
Maybe instead of just blindly throwing out sit on the dog, or place, you Google how to build a dog up? Theres a lot of online trainers that can accomplish things with submission peeing.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

cloudpump said:


> Where did I say not to get byb puppies, or rescues?
> If you are referencing another thread, then don't beat around the bush. And to highlight what I think you mean, the person asked a question that was answered. Without bashing any dogs.
> Your expert trainer's are no better than the expert trainer's I go to. The difference is, my trainers don't need to be the loudest voice on the internet shouting out advice that doesn't address the dog in front of them. They also enjoy their dogs as opposed to having robotic dogs. I know you'll take that personally, so I'll point out that I'm not insulting Rocky, or strudel. I'm referencing jg. Who laughs about a dog crying out when he throws a bonker at the dog. Or pops a dog so hard with a prong it cries out. Its one thing to use corrections. It's another to pound a dog into submission and have it afraid when you walk in the room.
> Maybe instead of just blindly throwing out sit on the dog, or place, you Google how to build a dog up? There's a lot of online trainers that can accomplish things with submission peeing.


I did not say "you" had an issue with "BYB's" or rescues?? I did imply that people that have never dealt with a "difficult dog" ... don't have a clue. I'll stand by that. 

And I have no idea who jg is?? But as regards the "Bonker" and it being ineffective ... I don't do LE, PPD, or MWD ... I do family pets! And as family pets tend to have "Zero Experience" with routinely being "struck" ... "Family Pets" tend to find being "Bonked" a fairly startlingly experiance! Not really sure why that is relevant here so ... you know ... just saying. 

I don't do "Prong Collars" either you know ... not my thing. SLL ... only and I've heard from experts ... that you can't correct a dog with a SLL ... that was news to me??? 

Frankly ... I spend a lot of time "debating" with people that already know how to train a dog?? Waste of my time but the people that actually look at my advise ... see that I don't do force and they seek me out in "Pm's." I just happen to be a flack magnet, because if people, have screwed up as it were and have issues that need to be stopped ... right freaking now ... I got there back! So you yeah ... I'm often in the "Keep it real threads" But that is not how I *train* ... just saying.

But hey, if you know trainers ... that * "a lot of online trainers that can accomplish things with submission peeing."* Please share ... it would help the OP and if I see this issue in the future ... rest assured I'd be happy to share it ... that's what I do. Just saying.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

gsdsar said:


> Ok, so I am going to throw out a crazy idea. Just forget about it for a bit, let her out of her crate and have a big ole party, totally ignore the pee but show her how happy you are to be with her, when she comes over, show her how happy you are to see her. You guys have been trying everything to decrease the piddle problem and its probably freaking out your puppy. You wont give her eye contact, you ignore her in the crate and when coming out of the crate. She is just trying to tell you that she is a good girl, hence the peeing. But you are always ignoring her, so she tries harder.
> 
> So get a carpet cleaner and just show her how wonderful she is, give her some confidence in your love and affection and deal with the piddle for a few weeks, get her out, get her doing things let her be a full part of the family and stop being upset by her show of "im a good girl, see i am submissive, love me" You are unknowingly making such a huge deal of the piddle issue that its making it a bigger issue.
> 
> I know, crazy idea. But submissive urination is only solved by raising a confident puppy. Give them something to succeed at, all the time.


I also like this idea... you say you've tried everything, so it does seem like, even though you've tried to not make a big deal of it... you've made a big deal of it. 
I would get puppy pads and put them down to try to protect the carpets and then just be pleased to see her. try to react to her as you would any dog who doesn't have a pee problem. Play games, build her confidence, tug games where she always wins, simple training that she always gets right and lots of praise, lots of love. Maybe that is the way round this.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> I did not say "you" had an issue with "BYB's" or rescues?? I did imply that people that have never dealt with a "difficult dog" ... don't have a clue. I'll stand by that.
> 
> And I have no idea who jg is?? But as regards the "Bonker" and it being ineffective ... I don't do LE, PPD, or MWD ... I do family pets! And as family pets tend to have "Zero Experience" with routinely being "struck" ... "Family Pets" tend to find being "Bonked" a fairly startlingly experiance! Not really sure why that is relevant here so ... you know ... just saying.
> 
> ...


Excuse me. JG=Jeff Gelman. The person that is referenced in your links of yourself. 
The thing of it, you do advocate force according to your links. If the dog comes on you during sit on the dog, the links say to push the dog down, that's force. You've stated you hung a dog. Bonker is force (which saying le, PPD, or mwd has no bearing on this). 
Debating because people see an issue in the methods suggested. Flack because as the op said, the methods suggested didn't work yet. PM's or not...

https://www.cesarsway.com/dog-behav...on/15-tips-to-get-rid-of-submissive-urination
Petting gets Wetting: Submissive Urination in Dogs


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

cloudpump said:


> Excuse me. JG=Jeff Gelman. The person that is referenced in your links of yourself.
> The thing of it, you do advocate force according to your links. If the dog comes on you during sit on the dog, the links say to push the dog down, that's force. You've stated you hung a dog. Bonker is force (which saying le, PPD, or mwd has no bearing on this).
> Debating because people see an issue in the methods suggested. Flack because as the op said, the methods suggested didn't work yet. PM's or not...


Those are excellent suggestions you provided. Several trainers I know online have said Gellman's methods are not useful in situations like this. Force is never a good option.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

A puppy that submissively urinates is not necessarily uncomfortable around you or afraid to be around you. Crank used to submissively urinate on meetings fairly often and temperament wise he was very strong and very very few things bothered him. 

From puppies I've trained that submissively urinated a lot most of that stuff went away when we got into a little bit of horseplay over the course of a few days.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL JG ... Ok got it! As for* "I used a SSL to Hang"* a Dog yes... Once on one occasion. But ... you kinda ... you kinda sorta left out a lot of details. 75 lbs of pure solid muscle, fast and agile (Breed that shall not be mentioned) rescued fresh of the street! With a serious freakin Cat Issue and I have four cats! In 24 hours ... Sally bowed down to my cats! 

Good freaking luck to anyone foolish enough to even think ... they had a freaking chance to stop her, if she was not on a freaking leash! Rest assured you have no chance! I changed her attitude, in regards to cats in 24 hours! Cat tested cat approved! People on here tried to tell me I did not do what I had done ... good luck with that. 

That really sure what that has to do with this thread?? But you know ... people do stuff??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sigh ... as much as I seem to just enjoy engaging in constant internet combat ... for the "OP" ... put a diaper on the puppy . Walk the puppy, do "Sit on the puppy" and use 5 minutes as a goal. Train place and get on with life, if it's is behavioural ... that should work. The puppy simply does not belive currently that "you" are the right leader for them??? 

My particular puppy ... I had zero issues with him for 7 months (that I saw) and 7 months late ... it was as I said "Game On." I have not faced, your particular issue but if I did ... what I listed is what I would do.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> Sigh ... as much as I seem to just enjoy engaging in constant internet combat ... for the "OP" ... put a diaper on the puppy . Walk the puppy, do "Sit on the puppy" and use 5 minutes as a goal. Train place and get on with life, if it's is behavioural ... that should work. The puppy simply does not belive currently that "you" are the right leader for them???
> 
> My particular puppy ... I had zero issues with him for 7 months (that I saw) and 7 months late ... it was as I said "Game On." I have not faced, your particular issue but if I did ... what I listed is what I would do.


OP tried that. It didn't work....


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

One more idea. It may not be due to being afraid, but excited. Since the puppy is young, you may not know if she is afraid or she is excited. She may get be naturally timid and appear to be scared, but isn't. The causes are different and they do often outgrow it. I did some research and it may last in they are 12 months old.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

gsdsar said:


> Ok, so I am going to throw out a crazy idea. Just forget about it for a bit, let her out of her crate and have a big ole party, totally ignore the pee but show her how happy you are to be with her, when she comes over, show her how happy you are to see her. You guys have been trying everything to decrease the piddle problem and its probably freaking out your puppy. You wont give her eye contact, you ignore her in the crate and when coming out of the crate. She is just trying to tell you that she is a good girl, hence the peeing. But you are always ignoring her, so she tries harder.
> 
> So get a carpet cleaner and just show her how wonderful she is, give her some confidence in your love and affection and deal with the piddle for a few weeks, get her out, get her doing things let her be a full part of the family and stop being upset by her show of "im a good girl, see i am submissive, love me" You are unknowingly making such a huge deal of the piddle issue that its making it a bigger issue.
> 
> I know, crazy idea. But submissive urination is only solved by raising a confident puppy. Give them something to succeed at, all the time.



I have tried doing both ways, and I don't TOTALLY ignore her I just don't make a big deal about leaving or coming home. When she calms down I play with her and show her attention.
You're making it sound like I'm shunning the freaking puppy which isn't the case. I'm creating as calm as an environment to help to prevent the peeing. Which does help, but doesn't stop it.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

KaiserAus said:


> gsdsar said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so I am going to throw out a crazy idea. Just forget about it for a bit, let her out of her crate and have a big ole party, totally ignore the pee but show her how happy you are to be with her, when she comes over, show her how happy you are to see her. You guys have been trying everything to decrease the piddle problem and its probably freaking out your puppy. You wont give her eye contact, you ignore her in the crate and when coming out of the crate. She is just trying to tell you that she is a good girl, hence the peeing. But you are always ignoring her, so she tries harder.
> ...



She does get played with and does get loved on I've tried completely ignoring the peeing and going on about life and once again it DID NOT help. So I tried ignoring her till she calmed down which is not helping either. 
If you'd read my comments.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

LuvShepherds said:


> That is too simplistic. Every dog needs training. And every dog has some problems. Some of the best bred dogs are extremely high drive and take a skilled owner to handle them. The difference is an experienced owner has learned to handle them. I'm glad the OP shared her problem and is looking for solutions. I had a submissive dog and I gave the dog confidence through many experiences. I had help even though I was experienced because I had never had a dog like that before.


The dog goes on car rides with me, goes to the park, goes to PetSmart, tractor supply, and I'm every one of those places we work on sits downs and she loves going and seems happy. However, she gets in her moods and she will pee over anything.


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## Casto (Jun 18, 2016)

Maybe keep a drag leash on her inside and have her meet you at the door when its time to potty. IDK just trying to think of a few things.


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## brightspot (Apr 18, 2013)

Is it possible she has a medical condition (perhaps congenital) that makes it hard for her to hold her urine?


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Casto said:


> Maybe keep a drag leash on her inside and have her meet you at the door when its time to potty. IDK just trying to think of a few things.


I may try that, but I also have problems sometimes getting her to come out of the crate without coming out and going potty but I definitely could try keeping a leash on while she's out and just grabbing the leash instead of having to put it on when it is time to go out.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

brightspot said:


> Is it possible she has a medical condition (perhaps congenital) that makes it hard for her to hold her urine?


I mentioned to the vet about possibly a UTI she kinda blew me off and said if it were a UTI or bladder problems she'd be having more actual accidents. Which she doesn't it is just the issue with peeing when approached or touched. Which makes sense, but I'll probably have them do the tests anyways just so I know.


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## Nurse Bishop (Nov 20, 2016)

Does she show submissive body language when she urinates? Does she sort of grovel? That would show it is psychological and not a physical disorder I would think.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Nurse Bishop said:


> Does she show submissive body language when she urinates? Does she sort of grovel? That would show it is psychological and not a physical disorder I would think.


She does which (even though the vet was an ass about it) I agree with it not being a UTI.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Lexi GSD said:


> She does get played with and does get loved on I've tried completely ignoring the peeing and going on about life and once again it DID NOT help. So I tried ignoring her till she calmed down which is not helping either.
> If you'd read my comments.


Well then, ok.

Just giving my opinion, because it sounds like you have tried a whole lot of things and nothing has worked. But maybe you just havent given any one thing long enough. these things can take time. There is no magic pill, no quick fix.

Good Luck to you.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

What happens when you open the crate and just walk away? Not giving her any attention. Literally pop the door, let it swing open and walk away?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Lexi GSD said:


> The dog goes on car rides with me, goes to the park, goes to PetSmart, tractor supply, and I'm every one of those places we work on sits downs and she loves going and seems happy. However, she gets in her moods and she will pee over anything.


Can you find a good trainer who understands German Shepherds and will come to your house to observe you all together? I agree with GSDSAR, training can take time. Changing behavior can take even more time. I worked with my dog for a year before I saw huge improvements. We had incremental changes, but not quickly. People who saw my dog a few years later were surprised at how well we had done. By then we were past it all and the changes were permanent. 

I missed that she is so young. Are you committed to keeping her? Is there a possibility the breeder might take the dog back? It's not something I would do, or even recommend, but if you aren't enjoying the dog maybe rehoming would solve it. If you want to work it out then I think a hands on trainer is best. We can't see her behavior but someone who can will be able to help. Another suggestion is to post a video. There are some good trainers here who can observe and offer suggestions.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

LuvShepherds said:


> One more idea. *It may not be due to being afraid, but excited*. Since the puppy is young, you may not know if she is afraid or she is excited. She may get be naturally timid and appear to be scared, but isn't. The causes are different and they do often outgrow it. I did some research and it may last in they are 12 months old.



^^^
That along with a weak sphincter.
Use pee pads as suggested. When she goes on it, you can promptly take her and the pee pad outside, show her, sniff, rub pad in grass where you want her to go, show her, place pee pad down if she tries to go, say "go pee" as she does reward.


I think this is combo of weak sphincter muscles at her age and as gsdsr said, excited, and confusion. She's 20 weeks old. 
Note: do not have her altered until she is 100% and at a proper growth for her hormones. Last thing you want is spay incontinence


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Being just a *5 month old puppy* I'm just going to throw out there that this is very likely excited urination and not submissive urination as she doesn't always do it (barring medical issue). OP even stated "sometimes she gets in a mood and just walks up and pees". GSDSAR probably has the right idea about not focusing on it for a while. 
Expectation on house training and capping excitement may be too high here. Some just take a little longer than others. Frustrating yes but end of the world no. I would bet before you know it your pup will outgrow this issue.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Lexi GSD said:


> She does get played with and does get loved on I've tried completely ignoring the peeing and going on about life and once again it DID NOT help. So I tried ignoring her till she calmed down which is not helping either.
> If you'd read my comments.


I don't think you need to get so defensive. We're all just trying to throw out ideas and help you. No one is attacking you or insulting you.

Seeing as you've tried so much and nothing is working perhaps its the duration that is the issue... how long have you tried each technique for before deciding it wasn't working... one week? two weeks? four weeks?


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

KaiserAus said:


> I don't think you need to get so defensive. We're all just trying to throw out ideas and help you. No one is attacking you or insulting you.
> 
> Seeing as you've tried so much and nothing is working perhaps its the duration that is the issue... how long have you tried each technique for before deciding it wasn't working... one week? two weeks? four weeks?


I think we need to take a breath and give her a chance to process everything without being critical. She has to sort through a bunch of off subject posts with a lot of conflicting suggestions to get to anything useful. It's enough to frustrate anyone. I was getting frustrated and it's not even my dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Three things,
1) I think there is genetic component 
2) she will grow out of this but probably towards one year of age
3) the point that OP said that sometimes a five month old pup won't come out of crate should indicate something
SOME things cannot be fixed with puppy until emotional maturity arrives especially if there is genetic component grounded in insecurities not typical of a German Shepherd....in these cases if the owner is novice some of these things suggested will only prolong period.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

I haven't read the whole thread,but I have a 7 year old who was a submissive peer. Saw 2 behaviorists,read everything I could. Couldn't approach the dog-ever- without a distraction-food or a ball. On top of that he was unbalanced and fearful and reactive from the get go. I've never seen a dog whose hair would stand so erect from head to toe at the passing of any living thing. The peeing went on for years,and I'm still careful but it hasn't happened in about 2 years. My dog would react to my yelling at my kids,or if I didn't pet him when he approached me,he would cower if I approached him subsequently. He was extremely perceptive to my mood. Very very very frustrating. Now he's much better,whether it be age,our approach or the fact that we brought home another GSD pup 3 years ago who has no issues. What did we do? E collar for training and correction. No verbal corrections. No approaching without a distraction,whether it be to put on his collar or his frontline. Tons of exercise. Lay on the floor with him with a ball every day for various amounts of time. Never reacted to the pee,though he could sense my annoyance somehow through scent or whatever. It took years. Hopefully yours is not that long.


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## ghinchcl (Mar 2, 2017)

Had same issue where puppy would just pee. We rearranged where she goes to the bathroom and do not pay attention or look at her till I get her little bum outside so she pees. Mine is around 20 weeks right now as well. You will get there. I would not do anything of force. It will just confuse the pup


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

lrodptl said:


> I haven't read the whole thread,but I have a 7 year old who was a submissive peer. Saw 2 behaviorists,read everything I could. Couldn't approach the dog-ever- without a distraction-food or a ball. On top of that he was unbalanced and fearful and reactive from the get go. I've never seen a dog whose hair would stand so erect from head to toe at the passing of any living thing. The peeing went on for years,and I'm still careful but it hasn't happened in about 2 years. My dog would react to my yelling at my kids,or if I didn't pet him when he approached me,he would cower if I approached him subsequently. He was extremely perceptive to my mood. Very very very frustrating. Now he's much better,whether it be age,our approach or the fact that we brought home another GSD pup 3 years ago who has no issues. What did we do? E collar for training and correction. No verbal corrections. No approaching without a distraction,whether it be to put on his collar or his frontline. Tons of exercise. Lay on the floor with him with a ball every day for various amounts of time. Never reacted to the pee,though he could sense my annoyance somehow through scent or whatever. It took years. Hopefully yours is not that long.



I'm hoping and wishing on my lucky stars that she does not have the problem as long as your guy ):
I have, however, found a good trainer that uses the e collar and is familiar with GSDs so I'm hoping it works for her too.
I'm definitely not a novice GSD owner just like yourself though I've never dealt with issues like this.


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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

I haven't read the whole thread, I just came across this today and it has quite a few pages, I did see many people suggest testing for a UTI, I am just wondering if you ever did get a urine tested for UTI. It can't hurt to test it, even though your vet doesn't think that is the problem, it is certainly possible, diabetes is another medical condition that can effect this, as well as other medical conditions. It would be a shame to go through all this to end up being a medical issue.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Lexi GSD said:


> I'm hoping and wishing on my lucky stars that she does not have the problem as long as your guy ):
> I have, however, found a good trainer that uses the e collar and is familiar with GSDs so I'm hoping it works for her too.
> I'm definitely not a novice GSD owner just like yourself though I've never dealt with issues like this.


How the heck is an e-collar going to help with submissive peeing?
Or a weak sphincter?
Or weak nerves?


Can someone please jump on board here before this dog is ruined for life?
It's still a puppy. Geez.


I read somewhere about dogs that have been so badly damaged in training that the use of commands YOU would normally use had to be thrown out and new ones introduced with positive cues and clicker training and treats.
SO instead of saying go pee, you might say go cucumber (haha, example).


Please don't subscribe to a trainer who uses negative training methods. Barbaric


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this is an uncontrollable reflex , which is probably self limiting 

but an E-COLLAR ? seriously? 

If i point my finger and make a jabbing motion to your eye , are you going to blink? Can you help it?
Would aversive training improve the state of things , either emotional or physical.

did you check if the dog has a mild bladder infection?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> *How the heck is an e-collar going to help with submissive peeing?*
> Or a weak sphincter?
> Or weak nerves?
> 
> ...


My dog would pee if verbally corrected. Could not correct unwanted behavior verbally. In came the e-collar,out went the verbal corrections and out went those instances of submissive peeing.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

lrodptl said:


> My dog would pee if verbally corrected. Could not correct unwanted behavior verbally. In came the e-collar,out went the verbal corrections and out went those instances of submissive peeing.



This dog isn't being corrected. This dog is peeing when touched and even looked at. How is an e-collar going to help? Smile at dog and say hi...zzzzap! Does zapping tighten the sphincter?


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> This dog isn't being corrected. This dog is peeing when touched and even looked at. How is an e-collar going to help? Smile at dog and say hi...zzzzap! Does zapping tighten the sphincter?


Correcting can build up the pressure that results in peeing when touched or approached,exactly like my dog. I yell at my kids upstairs and come downstairs and he's hiding,and it would set him back to square 1. A shout on Monday sets him up for a pee on Wednesday. We have no idea the level of sensitivity to the environment that he has prior to the peeing.The approach or touch is the final level of pressure,but he's been processing much more prior to that. Despite the submissiveness,he must be trained,and it can't be done with verbal or physical pressure or condolence,it must be done with detachment. My older GSD still cowers if approached by me,he must be the one to initiate. He's so highly sensitive,if I don't pet him when he approaches me,he'll go into a submissive condition and right behind that will be peeing. E-collar was a godsend for training and correction,the sensitivity should subside with age,distraction and understanding. No one is saying to zap a dog when approaching. The dog should be allowed to be the approacher and always be aware of posture,tone and eye contact and his immediate environment. Is he up against a wall,does he have an escape,does he feel trapped? Is he in a crate? Is he in a car?All confining,all adding to the pressure he feels. It was brutal but I got a pretty good dog to emerge,but we have to accept the limitations,and be careful we're not high talking or praising and reinforcing when he's in a fearful or submissive state.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> Lexi GSD said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hoping and wishing on my lucky stars that she does not have the problem as long as your guy ):
> ...


Since you wanna get smart with me the e collar DID and IS helping. It requires me not to touch her or have to get verbal with her until she calms down and collects herself. She gets told to go place on her bed and chill for a while. The color is no different than a tens unit you would use on your muscles. She was tested for a UTI and other things and that WAS NOT the issue it is behavioral.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

carmspack said:


> this is an uncontrollable reflex , which is probably self limiting
> 
> but an E-COLLAR ? seriously?
> 
> ...


Had her checked for a UTI she came back clear is is/was behavioral and she has almost made a complete 180 with being trained on the ecollar it allows me to communicate with her from a distance and it allows me to keep her in her own space until she calms down.
She no longer refuses to come out of the crate instead she comes out with a happy nice attitude and Hasn't pissed inappropriately in over a week.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> lrodptl said:
> 
> 
> > My dog would pee if verbally corrected. Could not correct unwanted behavior verbally. In came the e-collar,out went the verbal corrections and out went those instances of submissive peeing.
> ...


How about you go do your research and go test out a top dollar collar for yourself. On the low settings she's on a human can not even feel the simulation.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

lrodptl said:


> GatorBytes said:
> 
> 
> > This dog isn't being corrected. This dog is peeing when touched and even looked at. How is an e-collar going to help? Smile at dog and say hi...zzzzap! Does zapping tighten the sphincter?
> ...


Not even going to waste my breath with closed minded people like this anymore. If they did their research and actually got their hands on a collar before they'd understand, yet they just want to sit here and belittle people and try to start crap.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

GatorBytes said:


> Lexi GSD said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hoping and wishing on my lucky stars that she does not have the problem as long as your guy ):
> ...


Oh and to address the clicker training/treats before the ecollar she wouldn't even take a treat from someone without peeing if she was in a particular mood or she was just let out of her crate.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Hey Lexi, I'm glad it's working for you. I've seen videos from other trainers who used the e-collar for this type of problem, and I was impressed with their success and how little it stressed the dog.

I'm really glad you kept at it and have found a solution. Good work.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Muskeg said:


> Hey Lexi, I'm glad it's working for you. I've seen videos from other trainers who used the e-collar for this type of problem, and I was impressed with their success and how little it stressed the dog.
> 
> I'm really glad you kept at it and have found a solution. Good work.


Thank you very much. We are still going to have to work at it, but I see light in the tunnel now.
I don't get why she acts so weird when someone first gets home (mainly when she is doing it now). I'm hoping she will grow out of it and we can approach and love on her like you normal without having to send her away for a bit.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

The e-collar can be a wonderfully subtle and sensitive communication device when in the right hands. Most e-collar training now-a-days is on such low levels most people wouldn't even feel it. 

I hate it when people jump on the "e-collars are bad and it is bad to zapp your dog" bandwagon. e-collars are very flexible tools and there are many ways to use them.

I too am impressed with those of you who had success in using it for a reactive dog - it shows a good understanding of how dogs process information, how they associate the stimulus with their behaviour, and learn how to control their environment for the better. It takes sensitivity and insight to be able to apply the e-collar properly in these situations.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Castlemaid said:


> The e-collar can be a wonderfully subtle and sensitive communication device when in the right hands. Most e-collar training now-a-days is on such low levels most people wouldn't even feel it.
> 
> I hate it when people jump on the "e-collars are bad and it is bad to zapp your dog" bandwagon. e-collars are very flexible tools and there are many ways to use them.
> 
> I too am impressed with those of you who had success in using it for a reactive dog - it shows a good understanding of how dogs process information, how they associate the stimulus with their behaviour, and learn how to control their environment for the better. It takes sensitivity and insight to be able to apply the e-collar properly in these situations.


That's exactly right, it is about getting the right collar (not a cheapo that is set to shock high) and training the dog to understand what it means.


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## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Lexi GSD said:


> Not even going to waste my breath with closed minded people like this anymore. If they did their research and actually got their hands on a collar before they'd understand, yet they just want to sit here and belittle people and try to start crap.


It was huge for us. I rarely ever verbally correct Fritz,it's always a vibration or a nick. He's still submissive but not to the point of peeing and he rarely ever needs to be nicked. If he's barking,I just show him the remote and he stops. If he's doing something else I don't want,I just show him the remote and he stops. Dogs need to know when their behavior is unwanted and peers need to know in a different way. Without the e-collar,it's unlikely we could have kept Fritz,it was extremely bad. Now he seems pretty much normal as we've learned how to handle him,and control ourselves.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

lrodptl said:


> Lexi GSD said:
> 
> 
> > Not even going to waste my breath with closed minded people like this anymore. If they did their research and actually got their hands on a collar before they'd understand, yet they just want to sit here and belittle people and try to start crap.
> ...


That's very unfortunate you've had to go through all that with him. I'm just glad this came out early with her and I'm hoping that she will eventually be "normal". With the collar she has shown so much improvement. People just don't understand things like this until they are truly starring it in the face.


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## kimbale (Mar 7, 2017)

Using an e-collar correctly is no different than another dog telling your dog that their behavior is unwanted. Puppies are taught by adult dogs that certain behaviors are undesired for adult dogs (take jumping and biting, for instance) the adult dog will correct the puppy when the puppy gets too overzealous. When used properly, an e-collar can be a great way to correct the pup to let them know that what they are doing (in this case, peeing in the house) is not a desired behavior and that the puppy needs to correct the behavior. A small vibration (not even a bump) can sometimes be enough. Obviously the collar shouldn't be the only tool, and the pup should gets lots of praise and treats, but it really is no different than an adult dog correcting a pup.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

kimbale said:


> Using an e-collar correctly is no different than another dog telling your dog that their behavior is unwanted. Puppies are taught by adult dogs that certain behaviors are undesired for adult dogs (take jumping and biting, for instance) the adult dog will correct the puppy when the puppy gets too overzealous. When used properly, an e-collar can be a great way to correct the pup to let them know that what they are doing (in this case, peeing in the house) is not a desired behavior and that the puppy needs to correct the behavior. A small vibration (not even a bump) can sometimes be enough. Obviously the collar shouldn't be the only tool, and the pup should gets lots of praise and treats, but it really is no different than an adult dog correcting a pup.


Most definitely, and really we don't even have to correct the pee because it doesn't matter. Using the collar makes it to where when I get that signal or notice a sign she's about to I can safely send her away with no verbal or physical contact. So I haven't really had a peeing incident in a couple weeks


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Figured I'd post here and update lol.
So I ended up going with the ecollar and working her with it and she learning that she didn't have to get overly excited or submissive and pee when someone approached her. She'd still occasionally pee when he would deal with her.
At the end of August 2017 I left my now ex and we moved out into an apartment. Between then and now she's see so many people male and female of different sizes and has not peed with them.
About 3 months after I left a package of mine got delivered to the house and we went to go pick it up. As soon as she saw my ex she peed. So guessing he was doing something towards her to make her scared of him.
Don't know for sure but it would see to be the case.


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## Dionne2u (Nov 5, 2018)

Seems you are figuring out the problem. I will tell you a little story of my own adventure with a 3 yrs old IPO3 dog we adopted. His name was Frieden and he came from a very good breeder in Germany that i have adopted from many times.

Frieden bonded to me but would never let my husband touch him and was very nervous around him. My husband is the sweetest kindest man one would ever meet and loves animals. For 2 years we dealt with this behavior, no matter what we tried he would not allow a touch and be very nervous around him, even to the point of peeing when he got to close. 
I called the breeder from Germany, he was flying into the states within the month and made plans to come to our house to see if he could figure out the problem. 
To clarify he obeyed me in everything and understood like a human whatever i wanted. Only issue was with my husband. We thought abuse? But this breeder and trainer are some of the best out there. We thought jealousy? We just didn't know and the breeder could not say either. 

Well my hubby one day built Frieden a huge doghouse and pen to go outside while we were gone. I he worked so hard on it. After it was built i told Frieden to check it out, he went inside and came back out...i told him, "now go tell your daddy thank you" and for the first time in 2 years he went over to my hubby and placed both paws in his lap and let my husband pet him. From that day on we never had any more issues with him. So i called the breeder and said no need to come now, all is good. And it was until the day he passed away. Broke my husband's heart when he passed, they had become extremely close. 

True story with no embellishment. Take from it what you will.


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

That's definitely a good story with a happy ending ?
See my ex was the exact opposite though he didn't do anything for her I walked her, fed her, trained her, paid for everything for her, etc etc.
I just found it weird even after months of not seeing him as soon as she did she peed.
Hasn't done it since either. Dogs are strange sometimes I guess. 




Dionne2u said:


> Seems you are figuring out the problem. I will tell you a little story of my own adventure with a 3 yrs old IPO3 dog we adopted. His name was Frieden and he came from a very good breeder in Germany that i have adopted from many times.
> 
> Frieden bonded to me but would never let my husband touch him and was very nervous around him. My husband is the sweetest kindest man one would ever meet and loves animals. For 2 years we dealt with this behavior, no matter what we tried he would not allow a touch and be very nervous around him, even to the point of peeing when he got to close.
> I called the breeder from Germany, he was flying into the states within the month and made plans to come to our house to see if he could figure out the problem.
> ...


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## Dionne2u (Nov 5, 2018)

Lexi GSD said:


> That's definitely a good story with a happy ending ?
> See my ex was the exact opposite though he didn't do anything for her I walked her, fed her, trained her, paid for everything for her, etc etc.
> I just found it weird even after months of not seeing him as soon as she did she peed.
> Hasn't done it since either. Dogs are strange sometimes I guess.
> ...


They are that !!! Strange at times. I was the one who fed him and tended to all his needs, just to clarify. He may be doing something to her or had been, sometimes,like in my story it's just weird behavior and one never know. I am so glad she is doing better with you, looks like you guys will have a happy ending too!


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