# My shepherd is a shepherd, but still not a shepherd. Need some insight



## Doggypuppy (Sep 12, 2013)

Hello.

So I live in Sweden.
In Sweden Shepherd means Schäfer, and the "dog goverment" has decided that Schäfer.. means German Shepherd. No expections. If you got a Swiss Shepherd.. it's not called that. Because there only exists one "Schäfer" in Sweden and thats the German one. 


Anyhow, now to the part that bothers me.

I own a WHITE Shepherd. I know I cant call it a German one, but in my eyes.. it's still a Shepherd / Schäfer. Tho, in Sweden it's a mixbreed. 

Her line has only been with Shepherds and never ever mixed. Still, a mixed breed so far .. so I am not allowed to compete with her. (Not that I want that, but still.. abit wierd in my eyes). 

Her fathers line is from Denmark and they compete in FCI and other stuff.. 
Her mother line is from Sweden and it's considered a mixbreed here so she cannot compete. 

They created their own breed for white shepherds / schäfer.. and thats called White Shepherd in english but in Swedish its called Vit Herdehund. 
(To spare the confusion. Shepherd means Schäfer AND Herdehund). 

However, not all dogs are allowed to be called Vit Herdehund either. EVEN if my dog is considered a 100 % "Vit Herdehund" I might not be allowed to registrated her to it because they might not feel like it. 

Also, to add it all up.. apperently if two normal German Shepherds get a white one, it's no longer a Shepherd but a mixbreed. WHAT?! and the black one is allowed to be called Schäfer. 

So to sum it all up:
I got a "White Shepherd". 
I may not call it by it's real name in Sweden because they consider it a mixbreed. 
Shepherd means Schäfer and Herdehund. 

My Shepherd is a White Shepherd if I were to travel outside of Sweden, but in Sweden.. it's a mixbreed. 

If I got it registrated (and thats apperently rare).. I may call it Vit Herdehund (White Shepherd) but I may not call it Vit Schäfer (White Shepherd). 

But untill then, it's a mixbreed. I want to call it a vit Schäfer because Schäfer is the known word for Shepherd.. but I am not allowed to and it bothers me AND confuses me. 
BUT if I were to travel outside Sweden, I could call her a White Shepherd. So it really bothers me that outside Sweden = I can call her what I want. But inside, I may not. 


*I need some help trying to understand the logic here and how it's all planned out. - Please do not start a flame war.*

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1235026_10151877281100861_1346520969_n.jpg
Here is a pic of her. 11,5 weeks old


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## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

I'm from Germany and here's my take on it:

White Shepherds are called "Berger Blanc Suisse" or "Weißer Schweizer Schäferhund" here. 
White Shepherds are not accepted by the SV - hence white ones can't be called GSDs.
They are however recognized as a several breed by the FCI since 2011.
Not sure why there's such a problem with a recognized FCI breed in Sweden...


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

It can be really confusing. What are the sire and dam registered as?


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## Doggypuppy (Sep 12, 2013)

Whiteshepherds said:


> It can be really confusing. What are the sire and dam registered as?


They are not registrated in the "official" dog club in Sweden.
The father is in Denmark and is registrated as a Shepherd / Schäfer.

The mother is not registarted as she is not allowed in. She is registarted in the unofficial tho.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What is the "dog government" and what exactly are you trying to get out of registering your dog? Do you need to register your dog with the actual government for some reason and they just want it registered as a mixed breed? 

Are you talking about a breed club? They have strict-ish rules on what can and can't be registered and I think your biggest issue right now is that the dam was never registered. Are you trying to get it registered with a registry like FCI? Sounds like since the mother was never registered its highly unlikely your pup will ever be allowed to be registered with FCI as a purebred as they can't prove that its pure due to the mother's questionable pedigree.

Really not sure if its a lost in translation type of thing but you keep saying you can't call your dog this or that...you can call your dog whatever you want, not sure what that has to do with the government. So if you can explain what it means that you can't call your dog something and you want to...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If the bitch is not registered with an accepted kennel club, than the pup really shouldn't be registered. But I agree. It is very confusing. If two GSDs hook up and create a litter with a white one, how does that make the white one a Berger Blanc Swisse or however you spell it? A masking gene should not create a separate breed of dog. 

I think the SV is all wet on this, and I think the AKC has this right. Register the dogs as GSDs, and just discourage breeding by not allowing them in the conformation ring. Allow them in all other venues. Great pets. Train them, socialize them, take them out and herd with them, do obedience, agility, rally, schutzhund -- whatever floats your boat. But don't breed them. And if you have to breed them, you are breeding for pets, not for conformation show dogs. In the AKC white ones can be bred, and can provide full registration. The white ones just cannot be shown in conformation, which is true of livers and blues.

How does the SV handle blues or livers? Do they have a Berger Blu Swisse?


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## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

selzer said:


> If two GSDs hook up and create a litter with a white one, how does that make the white one a Berger Blanc Swisse or however you spell it? A masking gene should not create a separate breed of dog.


No, no, no, I think you got it wrong! 
If two GSDs create a litter with a white pup, this pup ist still a GSD. But due to the fact that white is a color error, one is not allowed to breed this white GSD (even though it might have a pedigree and so on).

The Berger Blanc Suisse is a seperate breed! It has nothing to do with GSDs. At least here in Germany...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That makes sense. 

I thought that the white ones had such a following that they started registering them as Berger Blanc Suisses and went through the process of creating a breed for White GSDs. 

I think in Germany, the strict guidlines on breeding have made the color pretty much extinct there from GSD litters. In the US, the color is very much alive.


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## Doggypuppy (Sep 12, 2013)

If you havent noticed Im a rookie when it comes to the dog world. I am trying to learn as much as possible.

Im not intrested in registrating my pup or anything of that sort. I just want to KNOW.

The father is FCI registarted.
The mother is registarted in a breed club. Not in SKK (SKK = Swedish FCI). 
The mother has it's history registarted 3 generations back. This is the 5th generation pup I got. 

I could apply and try to get the pup into SKK.. tho not everyone gets in.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I say, Move to the US and call it a white German Shepherd. Works for me.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Doggypuppy said:


> If you havent noticed Im a rookie when it comes to the dog world. I am trying to learn as much as possible.
> 
> Im not intrested in registrating my pup or anything of that sort. I just want to KNOW.
> 
> ...


I'm even more lost at what you're looking for at this point. So you just want to know what to call your dog? Call it a White German Shepherd. If someone **** tells you otherwise, move on and don't argue. If there is a more knowledgeable culture in Sweden about the difference between whites and regulars than you might run into more of these people than you'd like, but I'm pretty sure the majority of people aren't going to question whatever breed you want to call your dog.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

lol.



Stevenzachsmom said:


> I say, Move to the US and call it a white German Shepherd. Works for me.


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## J and J M (Sep 20, 2013)

AKC has it wrong. If Max Von Stephanitz said "No good dog is a bad color" and didn't mind the white ones then how can the AKC step in and say they can't be in the conformation ring. As far as the SV not accepting it, wasn't that Hitler's view. He didn't think whites made good war dogs.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

J and J M said:


> AKC has it wrong. If Max Von Stephanitz said "No good dog is a bad color" and didn't mind the white ones then how can the AKC step in and say they can't be in the conformation ring. As far as the SV not accepting it, wasn't that Hitler's view. He didn't think whites made good war dogs.


The AKC didn't made the decision to put the disqualifying fault on the white coated GSD, a change in the breed standard was voted on by members of the German Shepherd Dog Club of America in the late 1960's. Previous to that the whites were allowed in the AKC ring. 



selzer said:


> If two GSDs hook up and create a litter with a white one, how does that make the white one a Berger Blanc Swisse or however you spell it? A masking gene should not create a separate breed of dog.


That's not how it works.  How the dogs are registered depends on their pedigrees, not just the fact that their coats are white. The confusion happens because the criteria changes from country to country.



selzer said:


> I think the SV is all wet on this, and I think the AKC has this right. Register the dogs as GSDs, and just discourage breeding by not allowing them in the conformation ring.


Again, this has nothing to do with the AKC, they don't make decisions about breed standards. Removing the whites from the ring didn't discourage breeding, I think it had the opposite affect which is why we now have White Shepherds and Berger Blanc Suisse. People like what they like. 
If the GSDCA changed the standard tomorrow making black and tans a disqualifying fault, would you stop breeding them?


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

Doggypuppy said:


> If you havent noticed Im a rookie when it comes to the dog world. I am trying to learn as much as possible.
> 
> Im not intrested in registrating my pup or anything of that sort. I just want to KNOW.


In that case I wouldn't loose any sleep over it ! You have a GSD !

In Act II, Scene I :

_What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself._


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