# Liver GSDs?



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

I saw a picture of a liver GSD (his name is Kaiser.) It was on DeviantArt, but I'm pretty sure I saw his pictures on here too.









He has gorgeous pale yellowish eyes, very red fur, and a red nose. Are these typical traits for a liver GSD? I can't find pictures of them anywhere, really. Not good ones, anyway. 

Are there any reputable liver GSD breeders around? If that's what they usually look like, I'll look around. I about fell over in my chair when I saw Kaiser's pictures.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: KonotashiI saw a picture of a liver GSD (his name is Kaiser.) It was on DeviantArt, but I'm pretty sure I saw his pictures on here too.
> 
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> 
> ...


Liver is not a desired coat color and anyone breeding just for the color is NOT a good breeder.

I prefer dark eyes (as the standard calls for) on my GSDs and have a really hard time with the yellow eyes. Just don't like them.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

So there's also no reputable long hair or white GSD breeders, since they're not desired in the show ring?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Whites are a different matters but no, there are no REPUTABLE breeders that breed ONLY for long coats.

Or ONLY for deep red color in the coats.

Or ONLY for dogs that have longer tails.


A REPUTABLE breeder breeds for health, temperament and drives FIRST and foremost. IF they happen to have a long coat (like my boy Mauser) in their litter than they have one.

They don't plan a breeding JUST to get a long coat.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I know of someone in my state that has liver, panda and "oversized" shepherds. 
The liver, blues, pandas are interesting but the breed standard does not recognize this, so anyone breeding them wouldn't be considered responsible to the breed betterment. 
Every now and then you may get a color pop up in a litter because of the genes, but to breed for this is a no-no
Someone I know down the road has a blue, brother and sister accidentally hooked up and the vet said it was best to let her whelp, luckily she only had 3 pups. 
She said he is as dumb as a box of rocks...


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

If you search around, you can sometimes find liver GSDs from a reputable breeder as the color can show up unexpectedly in a litter of "normal" colored dogs.

As far as a breeder who actually breeds liver GSDs... Well, if you really want to find one there are a few breeders pf non-standard colors who do OFA and other health testing with their dogs and work/title their dogs. Most people would not call them reputable but at least the dogs are being tested and titled.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

See, when you breed based on colors (like someone) you end up with dogs that are described using words like "a very soft girl".

GSDs should NEVER be 'soft'.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

What does it mean when someone says "very soft?"


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would say it is temperament, not the feel of the dogs coat.
And I agree, GSD's should not be soft!!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: KonotashiWhat does it mean when someone says "very soft?"


I was referring to the link in the post above. They have a dog for sale that they describe as "very soft" and needs someone easygoing to being her 'out of her shell'.

That is NOT acceptable GSD temperament.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Also, if a breeder is breeding specifically for a recessive color then they are limiting the gene pool they can pick from to breed.

By limiting a gene pool you increase the likelihood of the BAD genes to appear in the offspring.

Cheetahs are a good example of what happens when you limit your gene pool. Because of the decline of the wild population of Cheetahs there are very few breeding Cheetahs left:



> Quote:The cheetah originated about 4 million years ago, long before other big cats and was once common throughout Europe, North America, Asia and Africa. They disappeared about 10,000 years ago from North America when major climatic changes took place. Fossil evidence has been found in what is now Texas, Nevada and Wyoming. The cheetah also disappeared from Europe and most of those in Asia and Africa also vanished. The present populations are derived from inbreeding by those very few surviving and closely related animals. This has led to the present state cheetah genetics: every one is nearly identical.


http://www.honoluluzoo.org/cheetah.htm


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## LandonsNana (Dec 21, 2008)

I heard of a Liver coming out in an incestual breeding as well, (grandparent/grandchild). It must be one of those latent, lazy genes that only shows up if two carriers breed. That can be disasterous as the gene could be one of a disease or a deformity. I am not a fan of linebreeding, although I know most breeders do it. It is just another name for inbreeding and can cause all the problems that inbreeding does. That's why you hear that mutts, in general, are healthier dogs than purebreds.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Theres a pretty large difference between line breeding and inbreeding actually. Inbreeding pertains to breeding animals that are closely related like mother/son, father/daughter, and full sib/full sib. Line breeding involves breeding two animals from related lines that have been bred out and then the resulting offspring one day bred back in like aunt/nephew, grandfather/grandaughter, and so on. When genetic testing is done beforehand you can determine and avoid recesive genes being matched up resulting in defects, and encourage the traits you value in a line.

GSD's and any other purebred out there have been inbred, linebred, and inbred again to get the results that have created distinct and healthy line when done responcibly. I would purposely breed for an animal not considered standard, but I like the livers and blues myself. Why is it though white is not standard it is accepted?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

> Originally Posted By: Daniellec Why is it though white is not standard it is accepted?


I've been wondeirng this myself.... 

But whites are very controversial. Livers and blues seem to just be slammed whenever they're brought up though.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Lauri said it very well, but I want to add my 2 cents as well.



> Originally Posted By: Konotashi
> He has gorgeous pale yellowish eyes, very red fur, and a red nose. Are these typical traits for a liver GSD? I can't find pictures of them anywhere, really. Not good ones, anyway.


I do not know about those being typical traits for liver colored German shepherds, as I have never met one, but combined, those are typical traits for a poorly bred German shepherd. Pale/yellow eyes, the liver color, and a red nose are all considered faults in the show ring. 



> Originally Posted By: KonotashiSo there's also no reputable long hair or white GSD breeders, since they're not desired in the show ring?


As already stated, white German shepherd dogs are a whole 'nother story, but to answer your question, there are plenty of reputable breeders who produce long coated GSDs, or GSDs with other undesirable traits in the show ring. However, those breeders usually will not sell those pups as "breeding quality" dogs, and often you will find that breeders will charge less for a long coated puppy. 

As for breeders who breed specifically FOR a fault, most will say that none of those breeders would be considered reputable. There is a difference between breeding two titled stock (or plush) coat GSDs that carry the long coat gene and getting long coat puppies and saying "well, he's a liver long coat and she's a liver long coat, and gosh darn it, they're awfully rare and pretty, so let's breed 'em!". 

There is much more to the German shepherd dog than just color. A shy, fearful, "soft" German shepherd is not a good representation of the breed, and in my opinion, neither is a GSD that does not look like a GSD should. While there's nothing wrong with having a color preference (I love the darker colored dogs myself), a breeder intentionally and specifically breeding for faults is not my cup of tea. If you have your heart set on a liver, I suggest you look into reputable breeders who may have had occasional liver colored dogs pop up in their litters, and talk to them, or, of course, find one from a shelter or rescue.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I always thought responsible line breeding is more having a common great grand parent. Breeding an aunt/nephew or grandfather back to his granddaughter is inbreeding. 

Livers and blues aren't in the standard becuase that's what Capt. Max wanted. There's a quote about relegating them to the dung heap.

Whites are a different story, that's a masking gene, not a recessive gene like blues/livers. Yes they do come up once in a while in a responsible breeding. Then it's the responsible breeders responsibility (in the name of bettering the breed) to be sure they are sneutered. My money is on there's more of them now becuase they aren't being culled in shame by responsible breeders.

Breeding blues/livers like SOMEONE is doing, that's just pandering to the designer dog fad and the silly human need to have some rare looking dog.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

How could I go about finding a breeder who has had livers pop up occasionally in their litters? I'm not absolutely set on a liver, but if I coud find one that's not a bad example as shown above, I'd get one.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Konotashi
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Daniellec Why is it though white is not standard it is accepted?
> ...


Whites are not accepted in the AKC show ring. And neither are they necessarily accepted by GSD lovers. I personally have no issue with white German shepherds, just as I have no issue with long coats. I know of several breeders who train and show, and/or title their white German shepherds and breed them because they are proven to be good examples of the breed. 

No where in this thread do I see blues and livers "being slammed". It is the backyard breeders that are being frowned upon. Show me a breeder with blues and livers as their breeding stock, and give me evidence that the breeder titles and works with their dogs and proves their dogs to be ideal examples of the GSD breed, and I won't have much of an issue with them, either.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

If a dog is automatically disqualified for being white though, how is it a good example of the breed, period? Whereas livers and blues are just major faults? 

I'm not trying to argue or anything, I'm just trying to understand.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

there is a push to make the White German Shepherd a separate breed. The people behind that are being responsible, setting their own standard and following it. They also title, health test, etc etc


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Why not push to have white acceptable in the show ring? Would it make sense to make a blue merle Australian shepherd a totally different breed from a red merle simply because of color?


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I as well would love to have a solid liver or a solid blue one day. They are just too dang gorgeous, especially the longcoats. I think we used to have a member here who had a longcoat liver.... the member also had German koolies, if I remember correctly. The liver was a beauty.









Unfortunately, it seems as though most breeders with blues/livers are less than reputable so I'd probably have to go the rescue route.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: KonotashiWhy not push to have white acceptable in the show ring? Would it make sense to make a blue merle Australian shepherd a totally different breed from a red merle simply because of color?


Whites are accepted in the Canadian kennel club, UKC and in SchH. This is how they are proving themselves breedworthy with titles.


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## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

Is this the Kaiser you are talking about?





































These pictures are from the Puppy Picture thread, in the puppy section.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

> Originally Posted By: GSDTrainIs this the Kaiser you are talking about?
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Yup. That's him. She has some pictures on her DA account of him all grown up. He's really quite the looker now!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Why would whites be considered a different breed? And why would color dictate the show or training ability of a dog?


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: DaniellecWhy would whites be considered a different breed? And why would color dictate the show or training ability of a dog?


It's my understanding the push to separate is so that the whites can have their own conformation in AKC. They are a separate breed in other countries and other kennel clubs in the US. 

Coat color has nothing to do with the working ability of the dog - although some have said that the whites have been softened up due to the lines selected. Same has been said about american show lines.

Whites being excluded from AKC simply is because that's how it was in germany under the rules defined by the founder of the breed.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

http://www.awsaclub.com/ 
Color doesn't dictate the training ability at all, but to the AKC conformation standards, white is disqualified~ a blue/liver is considered a fault.
Many of the whites I see at UKC events are way over the breed standard in size.
I think the White shepherd is gorgeous, as long as they have black leather, I don't like the brown or faded nose.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Thanks guys bare with me I am trying to learn everything I can about these guys


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

When it comes down to it, it's not about the color of the dog. It's about the intention and purpose and ethics of the breeder and his/her breeding system. No one is against a color, or a size, or a coat length, but simply, the motives behind breeding for such faults, if at all. IMO, of course.



> Originally Posted By: KonotashiIf a dog is automatically disqualified for being white though, how is it a good example of the breed, period? Whereas livers and blues are just major faults?
> 
> I'm not trying to argue or anything, I'm just trying to understand.


As Jenn said, you can compete with a white German shepherd dog in the UKC show ring, in agility, and/or in Schutzhund. Proving breeding worthiness is not simply an AKC Ch., just as an AKC Ch. does not necessarily equate to breeding worthiness. 

And while I know of many, many white German shepherds and White Shepherds that can be considered ideal examples of the breed and very reputable breeding systems including white German shepherds, I have yet to see a blue or liver breeder that I can say the same for. By NO means am I saying they do not exist, only that I have not yet heard of one. 

For example, standing stud at Atlas Kennels and well received and well known white German shepherd dog - WGSDCA BIF/BIM Grand Victor 6x Select Ch. / WGSDCII Grand Victor and 3x Select Ch. / ARBA BIS Master Ch. / FO URO1 UKC 7x BIMBS 4x RBIMBS Grand GSD Ch. / IABCA Multi. Ch. Eclipse's Strength of Atlas, RN, RL1, TN-N, WAX, WVDX, WROM, O-V, TC, TT, CGC, TDI, OFA H/Cardiac/MDR1/DM 
http://atlaskennels.com/boys/atlas.asp
and his daughter, UAGII URO1 UKC Ch. / WGSDCA BIF and BIM / ARBA Junior Ch. / IABCA Multi Ch. WhiteStone's Miracle of Atlas, RAE, S-TG-N, S-TN-N, S-NAC, S-NCC, S-NJC, O-HP-N, WV-N, NADAC Novice Versatility and Novice Triple Superior, TN-O, CL1, CL2, CL3, CL4-FH, MAC, OV, WVDA, CGC, OFA E/MDR1, owned by the same kennel.
http://atlaskennels.com/girls/mira.asp
In my opinion, that's a breeder who makes an effort to know her dogs and prove them to be ideal examples of the breed. They may be white colored long coats, but they hold conformation and performance titles and are health tested as well. The breeder is not simply breeding them because they are long coats, or because of their white color.



> Originally Posted By: Dainerrathere is a push to make the White German Shepherd a separate breed. The people behind that are being responsible, setting their own standard and following it. They also title, health test, etc etc


And, to the best of my knowledge, they have been reasonably successful. The White Shepherd is recognized by the UKC and FCI, isn't it? There are White shepherds being titled in agility, in the sport of SchH, in conformation, and the breeders breeding them are being responsible about it. 

Or... are we talking about the white German shepherd becoming a separate breed, and not the already established White Shepherd?



> Originally Posted By: KonotashiWhy not push to have white acceptable in the show ring? Would it make sense to make a blue merle Australian shepherd a totally different breed from a red merle simply because of color?


Because the white German shepherd folks have had little success with that, while the separate White Shepherd breed is already a rather established breed with it's own set of standards and own separate bloodlines. 

I have been told that because the development of the White shepherd has been going on so long, though, that there is now a MUCH greater difference between the white Shepherd and the German shepherd than there is between a red merle and blue merle Australian shepherd. They have different standards, different bloodlines, and to a more knowledgeable eye, White shepherds are easily distinguishable from white colored German shepherds. 

Believe it or not, there are many people among the white German shepherd dog enthusiasts who are opposed to the White shepherd, as still fighting for the white German shepherd to be allowed in the AKC show ring. So there are more than one group of people that we are talking about when referring to this entire breed separation/color recognition business.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: KonotashiWhy not push to have white acceptable in the show ring? Would it make sense to make a blue merle Australian shepherd a totally different breed from a red merle simply because of color?


White is a masking gene in a GSD which means it covers up the dogs "genetic" color. Blues and livers are "diluted" colors and the stand calls for a rich DEEP color. So technically they are not separate colors. An example: a blue GSD is technically a diluted black GSD. Comparing them with merle Aussies is comparing apples to oranges. 

Many people have mentioned that the whites are disqualified "in the show ring"; blues and livers are undesired "in the show ring" which is not really correct. It is *not* really a "show ring" issue. It is a breed standard issue which happens to be judged in the show ring. The standard lists the exact traits that the founder of the breed put into the breed which made it a German Shepherd Dog. The standard specifically lists every detail from eye color and shape, ear set, coat color and type, angles of the shoulders to the way the dog carries his tail as well as the temperament and the size. All of these qualities come together to make the German Shepherd Dog a German Shepherd Dog and not a Chihuahua. 

Feel free to read exactly what a GSD is supposed to be German Shepherd Dog breed standard per the SV (official dog registry of Germany)


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

http://atlaskennels.com - nice!

I couldn't help but giggle scrolling down the Boys' page, handsome white, handsome white and wait a minute, "Anubis" who is as expected by his name, pure black

His litter
http://atlaskennels.com/puppies/litter9.asp



> Quote:Anubis' first litter was with Indy, a white-factored black/tan bitch. Indy had eight puppies - three black/tan females, one black female, two black/tan males and two white females - on March 30, 2008.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Amaruq, if blue is a diluted black, what's liver? A diluted red German shepherd? This genetics business can really make my head spin!

I just say "in the show ring" because it's only in the show ring (in regards to the AKC) where white German shepherd dogs are disqualified, and because that's where they are judged in their conformation to the standard. At this point, and considering the dogs that ARE conformationally correct but lack in other areas (temperament, nerves, drive, etc.), I am perfectly fine with a breeder breeding a German shepherd that may not meet the standard, as long as it is a good representation of the breed in other (and in my opinion, more important) aspects.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SunCzarinahttp://atlaskennels.com - nice!
> 
> I couldn't help but giggle scrolling down the Boys' page, handsome white, handsome white and wait a minute, "Anubis" who is as expected by his name, pure black
> 
> ...


LOL, you're right, I didn't even notice they had a black GSD in there! xD

I also really like the look of Atlas Kennels. All her dogs live in the house with her (and that's a lot of dogs!), and she very rarely breeds litters (though her dogs are popular studs). The majority of her time is devoted to working and training with her dogs.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: ReiAmaruq, if blue is a diluted black, what's liver? A diluted red German shepherd? This genetics business can really make my head spin!


Not a breeder and don't know much, but another breed I have been researching, the Tibetan Mastiff, has two different dilute genes. Once causes the dominant blacks (or recessive black and tans) to appear blue and the other dilutes the black to brown. So it's possible that both dilutes are caused by two different genes that both affect the black color. It is possible to have double dilutes, but they haven't been seen in the TM in North America.

There is also a recessive black which from what they describe makes me believe it is a masking gene like the white in the GSD as they dog may appear black but reprodce like a B&T (which is the most recessive color).

http://tibetanmastiffinfo.com/articles/Tibetan-Mastiff-Color-Genetics.shtml


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Thank you for the explanation, Angela! One reason I will never become a breeder is because often times, talk of genetics really just goes over my head.

(I've always admired Tibetan Mastiffs. It's a shame they're not really the dog for my lifestyle and preferences)


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Quote:Whites being excluded from AKC simply is because that's how it was in germany under the rules defined by the founder of the breed.


From my understanding Max never disqualified whites. He thought them dull and uninteresting, but never DQ'd them. It was Hitler that did so by claiming that whites were weak and should be eradicated.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: KonotashiIf a dog is automatically disqualified for being white though, how is it a good example of the breed, period? Whereas livers and blues are just major faults?


What you say is true, yet both the liver and blue colors are DQ'ed in the AKC conformation breed ring because of their nose color: 
Disqualifications
Cropped or hanging ears.
*Dogs with noses not predominantly black. *
Undershot jaw.
Docked tail.
White dogs. 
Any dog that attempts to bite the judge. 

I've only seen one liver colored GSD in my life. She wasn't liver or red colored but rather a Hershey bar chocolate color with emerald green eyes. I thought she was very pretty.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Are blues/livers not able to participate in SchH trials?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Blues, Livers, whites, Greens, Purples, Yellows with Pink Polka Dots, any dog, or any size, of any breed, or any mix, can participate in Schutzhund trials - they are only judged on their ability to do the work. 

Obviously, they need to have the physical size and structure to be able to clear the meter jump, scale the wall, fight the helper, track in all sorts of weather and cover (so, a Sheltie may not be able to title, for example, but no reason a Rottweiler, or a Newfoundland Mix couldn't, assuming they had the willingness to perform).


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

That's what I thought, but I noticed people were saying that whites earn SchH titles, and it seemed like livers and blues couldn't.
I saw a Jack Russel doing Schutzhund before - it was pretty funny! Very impressive too to see such a little, hyper, high strung dog be so well behaved!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Quote:I saw a Jack Russel doing Schutzhund before - it was pretty funny!


Claudia Romard's Mr. Murphy









And yes, Whites earn SchH titles because they're more common than blues or livers, and most that want blues or livers just want pets. The White breeders are trying to prove themselves and their dogs because they're going for separation.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: KonotashiThat's what I thought, but I noticed people were saying that whites earn SchH titles, and it seemed like livers and blues couldn't.


they aren't saying that the blues/livers CAN'T, but that 99% of those breeding for these colors DON'T. 
That is what separates the two groups. One is doing as much as possible to produce the best dogs. The second is just saying "Look! Rare Colors!! Send me $$$$"


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DainerraThat is what separates the two groups. One is doing as much as possible to produce the best dogs. The second is just saying "Look! Rare Colors!! Send me $$$$"


*BINGO!!!*


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I want to see the pink polka dot GSD doing protection work.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Don't have one of those selzer, but I did have a green polka dotted GSD X Border Collie figure out how to open the upper cabinets and get into what she shouldn't. Unfortunately I didn't get a picture of it (long before digital cameras or even me earning my own money).

Forget puppy proofing everything at ground level. All that stuff was apparently too boring. Upper cabinents, top of the fridge, and counters; that's where the good stuff was.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

My daughter wants a yellow one wtih pink polka dots - lol she likes to push my buttons.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well there is a site, you can special order a GSD for the right price! 
Though the venue your daughter wants to train her yellow pink polka dot pup may cost more! Especially if the parents are world class!


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

> Quote: (so, a Sheltie may not be able to title, for example, but no reason a Rottweiler, or a Newfoundland Mix couldn't, assuming they had the willingness to perform).


I would love to see a sheltie do it! xD


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

If I remember right, Caroline (GSDBESTK9) once posted pics of a Sheltie earning an OB1 at her club. It actually did the meter jump for the retrieves!


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## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Konotashi
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: GSDTrainIs this the Kaiser you are talking about?
> ...


Boy is he gorgeous!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

WOW. If there ever was an argument to fully allow livers....


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

"Why are blues/livers frowned upon?"

From my standpoint, I've yet to meet a breeder of a particular COLOR of dogs (and basing their breeding program solely on producing those colors and nothing else) that cares about titling, showing, and producing quality dogs. Chances are if they are breeding solely blues/livers/plaids/polka-dots, they are breeding ONLY to satisfy peoples' color-wants.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: angela scriver
> 
> Not a breeder and don't know much, but another breed I have been researching, the Tibetan Mastiff, has two different dilute genes. Once causes the dominant blacks (or recessive black and tans) to appear blue and the other dilutes the black to brown. So it's possible that both dilutes are caused by two different genes that both affect the black color. It is possible to have double dilutes, but they haven't been seen in the TM in North America.


An acquaintance of ours is one of the top TM breeders in North America, and she's based here in Georgia. They are a wonderfully interesting breed, and they definitely take a particular type of owner


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Oh, I wish I remembered what website I saw it on, but there is a German GSD breeder who also has a Sheltie s/he does Schutzhund with. They had photos of the Sheltie doing bite work!

On a side note regarding history - 

White GSDs were never disqualified by the breed's founder, Max von Stephanitz. Von Stephanitz was certainly no fan of the whites, calling them "dull" and "uninteresting" in his book, but in the same part of the book, he stated that a good dog should never be excluded due to color.

Hitler also had nothing to do with separating the white GSDs from the rest of GSDs. While he did breed German Shepherds (the British "Homes and Gardens" goes on about his "exemplary breeding kennels" in one of its 1938 issues), and was certainly involved in the breed, he didn't have anything to do with the issue of whites.

White GSDs were removed from the breed standard in Germany in 1933 after several years of having been more and more excluded. The reasoning at the time was that whites and dilutes (livers and blues) were linked to color paling and genetic problems, although we now obviously know that white in the GSD is a masking gene.

In the United States, the WGSD was not excluded from the standard until 1959 when "predominantly white and Albino dogs" were excluded.


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