# If you own or have ever owned a WOLF HYBRID, please help!



## counter

We recently rescued a wolf hybrid pup, named him Beowulf, and are now looking for a forum for wolves and hybrids similar to this one for GSDs. If you know of any, please hook me up with the link.

Beowulf is now 4 months old. When we got him, he was beaten and starved, weighing only 23 lbs. In our first month together, he put on 12 lbs. We're not sure how big he'll get, but he has giant paws. We were told that his father was a 190 gray wolf/malamute. I don't think he'll get to be that size, and I sure hope not. We wouldn't be able to afford to feed him. Haha! His mother is a red wolf/siberian husky mix; however, when you look at Beowulf and compare his pics to pics of artic wolf cubs, they look identical, so I'm not sure if we were given good info. Here are some pics:










































We were lucky that our vet gave him a 100% clean bill of health after what he went through those first few months of his life. He was purchased from a breeder by a junkyard owner who wanted to make him into his mean, wolf guard-dog. Good thing someone saw what was going on and rescued him from that situation and gave him to us for a forever home. He didn't have any broken bones or anything, even after getting kicked repeatedly with the command NO. We've helped him become housebroken, learn to walk on a lead, start learning the basic commands, and am getting him all of his required shots at our holistic vet so we can begin the socialization process with dogs at the dog park.

He's got VERY LONG LEGS, which I'm hoping is a wolf attribute, because I don't want him to have leg issues later in life. He was checked for hip dysplasia and they didn't find anything yet, so my fingers are crossed that he'll grow into those legs. Haha! Let me know if your hybrid had long legs as a pup. It's my only worry about him. It's mainly his back legs. He can run fine though, and I don't see where he has any problems with them (yet).

Thanks in advance for any and all help steering me to a wolf hybrid message board!


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## Whiteshepherds

Do you have any verification that's he actually that mix?


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## LaRen616

Lucky! I would love to have a wolf mix!


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## Narny

I did a little search for wolfdog forums and came across this one....
WOLFDOG FORUM • View forum - WOLFDOG FORUM

I cant tell you if its good or not but if you search for wolfdog you should come up with more options.

Good luck


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## Jgk2383

If you contact Full Moon Farm out in NC Nancy will get back to you and answer your questions. Shes been dealing with Wolf dogs for a very long time. Send her a picture of your pup and ask her what she thinks.

[email protected]


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## PADR1NH0

beautiful dog... wow.

*sigh i want one now lol... went to that site.


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## counter

Whiteshepherds said:


> Do you have any verification that's he actually that mix?


No, not really. Not yet anyways. The people I received him from were the ones who rescued him from his terrible situation at the junkyard. They knew about what was happening to him because one of their close friends or relatives had purchased one of Beowulf's siblings from the same breeder. Somehow or other they found out that their dog's brother was in a bad situation so they got him help. They were the ones who told the people I got him from what his mix was, since they had been in direct contact with the breeder. I'm still doing my research and trying to contact Beowulf's siblings owner so I can get the direct contact info for the breeder. So yeah, I'm still trying to get this all figured out so I know exactly. Thanks for asking! It's complicated, I know. Haha. 

Here's the google image pic of the arctic wolf cub I found that looks so much like Beowulf did when we first brought him home:

















And here's another comparison (notice the mask and the really thick white/cream eyelash fur right over his eyes):


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## Jgk2383

Counter, do you know who the breeder was?

Nevermind- I see you are trying to find that out. Do you know where the breeder is located


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## LaRen616

Give him to me! 

I WANT I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PADR1NH0

LaRen616 said:


> Give him to me!
> 
> I WANT I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


me first lol...


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## DJEtzel

I have a friend on another forum who has a few low-high content mixes. If you PM me, I can give you her contact information. 

Personally, I don't think he has wolf in him, and if he does, he's a very low-content. I just don't see any wolf traits in him. I would imagine you'd be having huge issues with your male sibe and him as well if he were.


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## Lilie

LaRen616 said:


> Give him to me!
> 
> I WANT I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No! No! No! No! :nono: Hmmmm, what was it you said about getting another one? A few years? :wild:


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## LaRen616

Lilie said:


> No! No! No! No! :nono: Hmmmm, what was it you said about getting another one? A few years? :wild:


hahaha! 

Lillie, you sound like my mom!

I know, I know. I am moving to a bigger house in 2-3 years, if everything is still going good with the dogs and I feel like I can handle a 3rd then that would be the time. But no more until then! I promise!

Unless he wants to hand over that wolf mix


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## APBTLove

Hmm.. Without his breeding actually being DOCUMENTED... There is no way to be SURE he's a mix. It's possible, but not likely. A LOT of people try to pass their northern mixes are wolfdogs because they fetch a prettier price. 

GORGEOUS puppy whatever he is, and thank you for saving him.


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## counter

Jgk2383 said:


> Counter, do you know who the breeder was?
> 
> Nevermind- I see you are trying to find that out. Do you know where the breeder is located


They mentioned that the breeder lives south of them here in Oregon. They lived in Canby, and thought it was either Molalla, Wilsonville, or possibly McMinnville. But you're right, I'm trying to track down an exact address/phone number so I can go meet with them and let them know that one of their dogs is in better hands now. I've looked up wolf hybrid breeders in Oregon and haven't found anything, but I've also read and been told conflicting stories about how hybrids are illegal in this state, so a breeder wouldn't be advertising their dogs as hybrids in public.


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## APBTLove

counter said:


> They mentioned that the breeder lives south of them here in Oregon. They lived in Canby, and thought it was either Molalla, Wilsonville, or possibly McMinnville. But you're right, I'm trying to track down an exact address/phone number so I can go meet with them and let them know that one of their dogs is in better hands now. I've looked up wolf hybrid breeders in Oregon and haven't found anything, but I've also read and been told conflicting stories about how hybrids are illegal in this state, so a breeder wouldn't be advertising their dogs as hybrids in public.


Make sure they are legal. And call him a husky mix... Would royally suck for him to be taken and PTS.


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## LaRen616

APBTLove said:


> Make sure they are legal. And call him a husky mix... Would royally suck for him to be taken and PTS.


He could always stay here with me......


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## counter

LaRen616 said:


> Lucky! I would love to have a wolf mix!


Thanks! I found him on Craigslist for $75 (rehoming fee to cover what they paid the abusers to take him off their hands). So yeah, basically he was a free dog. I see wolf hybrid breeders selling their dogs for $1500-2500. He was exactly 90 days old when we brought him home, so still a young pup! What a steal!!! Ha.


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## counter

Narny said:


> I did a little search for wolfdog forums and came across this one....
> WOLFDOG FORUM • View forum - WOLFDOG FORUM
> 
> I cant tell you if its good or not but if you search for wolfdog you should come up with more options.
> 
> Good luck


Thank you. I just registered on there.


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## counter

Jgk2383 said:


> If you contact Full Moon Farm out in NC Nancy will get back to you and answer your questions. Shes been dealing with Wolf dogs for a very long time. Send her a picture of your pup and ask her what she thinks.
> 
> [email protected]


Will do! I appreciate the assistance.


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## LaRen616

counter said:


> Thanks! I found him on Craigslist for $75 (rehoming fee to cover what they paid the abusers to take him off their hands). So yeah, basically he was a free dog. I see wolf hybrid breeders selling their dogs for $1500-2500. He was exactly 90 days old when we brought him home, so still a young pup! What a steal!!! Ha.


Gotta love Craigslist dogs!

I got my 1.5 year old GSD/Husky mix for free off of Craigslist. :wub:


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## counter

LaRen616 said:


> Unless he wants to hand over that wolf mix


HE'S MINE!!! ALL MINE!!! Hehe.


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## LaRen616

counter said:


> HE'S MINE!!! ALL MINE!!! Hehe.


I cannot view your pictures, because this computer sucks, you should put some pictures of him on your profile page, that way I can drool over them. :blush:


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## counter

APBTLove said:


> Make sure they are legal. And call him a husky mix... Would royally suck for him to be taken and PTS.


Yeah, that's what we've been doing. To complete strangers, he's a malamute/husky mix. To people I know and trust, he's a hybrid. But you're right, even our vet mentioned to not call him a hybrid around Portland. They were even worried about his name drawing negative attention, but I'm not going to be paranoid enough to force a name change.

I've run into some clever, experienced hybrid lovers/owners on the street, and when I said he was a malamute/husky mix, they told me that he had to be part wolf based on his looks. So to the knoledgeable, I guess there is no hiding the truth. 

Thanks for the advice, friend!


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## Chicagocanine

He looks like he could possibly have some Akita (or other breed of Asian Spitz) in him. That would explain the long legs, especially if his back legs are longer.


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## counter

LaRen616 said:


> Gotta love Craigslist dogs!
> 
> I got my 1.5 year old GSD/Husky mix for free off of Craigslist. :wub:


Same deal with Paw Paw. He was a CL dog that we got for free, and honestly has to be one of the best looking huskies I've ever seen in my life. I can't believe the family was giving him away because they only bought him based on breed looks, and had no clue about the amounts of exercise, training, stubborness, etc. Paw Paw was 7 months old when we brought him home. Nara is the only animal we bought from a breeder, and she was my first dog ever. We now have 3 dogs and 4 cats, and they are all rescues (minus Nara). I'll probably never get another pet from a breeder if it can be avoided. 

However, I do have plans to get a doberman down the road, and with that breed, it may be smart to get one at 8 weeks old for training and loyalty purposes. I don't want to risk bringing in an abused or abandoned dobe, at least not until I do more research to ensure I can undo whatever wrongs were done to it. I love the breed, but also know that it's the only breed I've found where "being viscious" (not aggressive) has been written in to its breed standard.


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## counter

Chicagocanine said:


> He looks like he could possibly have some Akita (or other breed of Asian Spitz) in him. That would explain the long legs, especially if his back legs are longer.


O really? Thanks for that info. I'll do some research into those breeds.


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## counter

LaRen616 said:


> I cannot view your pictures, because this computer sucks, you should put some pictures of him on your profile page, that way I can drool over them. :blush:


Will you be able to get to a different computer later to view the pics?


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## Lilie

LaRen616 said:


> He could always stay here with me......


I can still hear you!


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## LaRen616

Lilie said:


> I can still hear you!


hahahahahaha


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## LaRen616

counter said:


> Same deal with Paw Paw. He was a CL dog that we got for free, and honestly has to be one of the best looking huskies I've ever seen in my life. I can't believe the family was giving him away because they only bought him based on breed looks, and had no clue about the amounts of exercise, training, stubborness, etc. Paw Paw was 7 months old when we brought him home. Nara is the only animal we bought from a breeder, and she was my first dog ever. We now have 3 dogs and 4 cats, and they are all rescues (minus Nara). I'll probably never get another pet from a breeder if it can be avoided.
> 
> However, I do have plans to get a doberman down the road, and with that breed, it may be smart to get one at 8 weeks old for training and loyalty purposes. I don't want to risk bringing in an abused or abandoned dobe, at least not until I do more research to ensure I can undo whatever wrongs were done to it. I love the breed, but also know that it's the only breed I've found where "being viscious" (not aggressive) has been written in to its breed standard.


I would love to own a Doberman! I grew up with 2 Dobes next door, a red one and a black/rust one. My next door neighbor said you do not want to spend under $1,200 for a Doberman puppy, they can be poorly bred and have temperment issues. But she spent alot of money on her black/rust Dobe and she developed Wobbler Syndrome absolutely horrible. The Vet recommended she be PTS but my neighbor refused and paid a ton of money on pills and a Acupuncturist comes out once a week for her. She is doing much better now but she cannot run and she has a permanent swagger. 

I have met 3 Dobes my whole life and all 3 of them were very sweet.


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## LaRen616

counter said:


> Will you be able to get to a different computer later to view the pics?


No, I am computerless at home.


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## ChristenHolden

Wow he's cute. He KINDA looks like a white GSD mix to me. He's gunna be so Handsome :wub:


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## VChurch

LaRen616 said:


> Lucky! I would love to have a wolf mix!


They are such beautiful animals! I want one too, but I'm happy with GSD's..for now.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Hopefully your pup is more 'dog' than wolf. There is a reason we don't all have wolves as pets. AWIC Newsletter: The Wolf-Dog Hybrid



> There are many other behavioral differences between wolves and dogs. Wolves in the wild appear to fear humans and will avoid contact whenever possible. (Wolves raised in captivity are not as fearful of humans. This suggests that such fear may be learned rather than inherited.) Dogs, on the other hand, socialize quite readily with humans, often preferring human company to that of other dogs. Wolves are tremendously successful hunters. Most dogs would quickly starve to death if left to fend for themselves in the wild. Additionally, wolves rarely bark, something obviously not true for most dogs. Since wolf hybrids are genetic mixtures of wolves and dogs, they can inherit a range of behavioral traits, some of which may be conflicting.
> 
> This mixture of potentially conflicting genetic traits results in less predictive behavior patterns in the wolf hybrid, compared to either the wolf or dog. This is not to say that the behavior of a specific hybrid is unpredictable or erratic. It would, however, be unlikely that someone unfamiliar with a particular hybrid, even someone with considerable experience, would be able to predict that animal's behavior with reasonable certainty. The adult behavior of hybrid pups also cannot be predicted with anything near the certainty of dog pups. Thus, though the behavior of an individual wolf hybrid may be predictable, the behavior of the breed as a whole is not.
> 
> Their aggressive tendencies and attacks on humans have caused many people to have concerns about wolf hybrids. Some question whether they are as dangerous as many claim. When CDCP statistics on canine attacks are used to compare hybrid attacks to those committed by various breeds of dogs, hybrids appear to be no more dangerous than some of the more aggressive dog breeds. But, these statistics may be misleading since they only list the number of attacks by breed without taking into account breed population figures or circumstances surrounding the attacks. Some insight into hybrid aggressiveness can be attained by looking at aggression in wolves and dogs. Wolves are relatively non-aggressive animals. Fighting amongst pack members is detrimental to the pack's survival, and aggressive behavior has been selectively inhibited in the wolf during its evolution. However, aggression in wolves can be part of territorial or protective behavior, but is most commonly seen during social posturing within the pack. This type of aggression often appears to be unprovoked, and is an attempt to establish or maintain dominance over a subordinate animal. The majority of human bites by captive wolves have occurred during dominance challenges. Wolves in captivity, though, rarely kill humans.


Wolf Dog Hybrid as a Pet



> Wolf hybrids are generally going to have behaviors of the wolf and the dog, but it is completely unrealistic to expect a hybrid to act like a domestic dog. Training will never eliminate the natural behaviors and characteristics of a wolf or a hybrid, so you will never be able to completely suppress the natural instincts.
> 
> Puppies will be more accepting to humans than adults, and as a puppy, will be more willing to submit to humans. After they turn about two years old, wolves start to challenge their pack, so don't assume a wolf/dog mix is not going to ever try to win his dominance over you. Hybrids will live in captivity with humans with great ease, but if you show even a simple sign of weakness, such as fatigue, frustration, or even an injury, you may find yourself in a battle over dominance, which can end in a fatality for you or the hybrid.


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## LaRen616

Some wolf hybrids have different percentages.

20% wolf

40% wolf

and so on


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## MaggieRoseLee

Interesting link from leerburg.

Additional E-mails on Wolf-Hybrids


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## Gwenhwyfair

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Interesting link from leerburg.
> 
> Additional E-mails on Wolf-Hybrids


 
yup...I was going to say have him DNA tested but then again....maybe better to let it be.

I dunno guys, we are having enough trouble keeping our domestic breeds - GSDs, Rotties, and Pitties legal imagine if we put wolf hybrids into the mix.


(btw had a friend who used to show/breed Siberian Huskies, she said a lot of the wolf hybrids were actually husky mixes that unscrupolus breeders were trying to scam people with)


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

NWA, Legislative Issues - State Regulations

State by state rules/regs. 

I agree with the scams and not likely a wolf ideas considering your area. WHere it is legal, more likely I would guess?

Powell on this board and dOg could be good resources.


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## Jessiewessie99

I don't see any wolf in him. Total cutie though. Maybe a White GSD Mix. His facial features just don't make the wolf mix cut. There is a member on here, Powell is the username, that will be able to help determine if he has wolf mix. Since he is from Craigslist more than likely he isn't a wolf mix.


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## ChristenHolden

LOL I beleave that my husbands sister SUPPOSIDLY raieses PB wolfs with hour BF. They brought these animals to grandmas for thanks giving dinner. They were wonderful very friendly. But they did not look like pb. They looke like husky or malimute mixes to me. And when I asked which they were mixed with they threw a fit. They are pb wolfs and kept saying % this % that. I kept my mouth shut. Be cause I doubt 3 pb wolfs would handle the caois of 40 plus people. Screaming kids and people leaving. From what a read a pb wolf would have been a nervous pancky wreck. I sweare they were more dog or all dog than wolf. Also most breeders want you to take a wolf pup at 4 weeks to raise and bond to your family. Not at 6 months or a YEAR old because no one wants to buy them. Besides being kept in a VERY small kennel outside only. And the cheapset dog food u can get 10$ for 50 pounds. Ugg I really dislike my SIL.


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## BowWowMeow

He is a gorgeous dog. I hope he is very low content for the reasons posted above. I knew someone who had a wolf-malamute hybrid and this dog made my 90lb gsd look small. He was also very wild...couldn't really be handled like a dog, hated sleeping inside, didn't get along with other males, etc. 

I've also met hybrids used for education--apparently they often don't make great pets. There is also an issue with vaccines. 

Do your reading and be very, very careful with him. Remember that he's a different species and one that is still very close to his wild origins and drives...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

ChristenHolden said:


> LOL I beleave that my husbands sister SUPPOSIDLY raieses PB wolfs with hour BF. They brought these animals to grandmas for thanks giving dinner.


Hmmm...wolf to grandma's...that never ends well.


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## Lilie

My BF recieved a wolf hybrid at her clinic years ago. It was under 6 months old and the owner wanted it PTS because it was far too much dog for him. She (stupidly) talked him into letting her take him. There was no doubt this dog was wolf. Although I love wolves, it really gave me the creeps. I wouldn't bring my daughter (who was very young) over to her house anymore because it would watch her like prey. 

My BF had dogs all of her life - Dobies, GSDs and Goldens. But this dog was far too much for her as well. She couldn't keep it from escaping, and it destroyed everything in it's path. It was highly aggressive (even as an altered youngster) . She found a rescue that deals only in wolf / hybrids and surrendered it to them.


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## Konotashi

He's a gorgeous dog, whether he does have wolf in him or not.

But I very much doubt that he has_ red wolf_ in him, given that they are a critically endangered species. 

Red Wolf Facts and Video - Canis rufus - Defenders of Wildlife - Defenders of Wildlife


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## JKlatsky

When I lived in Gainesville we ran into hybrids quite frequently. There are a number of hybrid breeders in that area and people who wanted a piece of the wild and thought they looked cool would purchase them. The ones that were pretty much just dog were generally OK. However any hybrid that has a significant amount of wolf does NOT act like a dog. They are generally very shy, and most of the ones I saw also had poor nerves. Actually on owner brought her hybrid to the dog park. It spent most it's time in the corner alone with it's tail tucked and the other dogs seemed to instinctively gang up on it. 

This is from a website that sells Wolf Hybrids in response to the commonly asked question of "Is my dog a Hybrid?"...So you can assume that if a pro-hybrid site says it...it's probably true.

WOLFDOG & WOLF HYBRID PUPPIES FOR SALE FROM FAMILY BREEDERS



> Not only by looks, but in most cases High Contents are Shy, dont listen well, They dont do well indoors and some mark territory with waste in addition to urine. In the case of a Mid, there are sometimes Wolf traits You Yourself can look for that might be mixed in with Dog traits. In the case of Lows it can go either way, there might be wolfy behavior but its more rare, there might be wolfy traits. Unfortunately in most cases We cannot help You determining what Your animal is without knowing the Animal, knowing the Breeder, and knowing the Parents. There are tests now available that can give You the makeup of Your Animal. When You email or IM Us pictures of Your Animal requesting Us to tell You what He or She is, We will refer You to this testing


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## DJEtzel

BowWowMeow said:


> He is a gorgeous dog. I hope he is very low content for the reasons posted above. I knew someone who had a wolf-malamute hybrid and this dog made my 90lb gsd look small. He was also very wild...couldn't really be handled like a dog, hated sleeping inside, *didn't get along with other males*, etc.
> 
> I've also met hybrids used for education--apparently they often don't make great pets. There is also an issue with vaccines.
> 
> Do your reading and be very, very careful with him. Remember that he's a different species and one that is still very close to his wild origins and drives...


The friend of mine's mid-content dog would turn into an aggressive whirlwind whenever he could see or smell another male dog.


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## ChristenHolden

It actully ended well. Like I said the were super friendly and had the tail waggles. Wanted petted and loved on by every one specally the children. Only prob was we and another couple brought our Chis because grandma LOVES them and all they did was watch them like they were snacks. Which makes me think they were had and they are dumb enuff to think there pure Wolf.


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## GSDElsa

Yikes...I can't believe people on here are practically begging to have this idog (if it is indeed a hybrid). 

There are very few heartwarming stories that deal with these dogs.

Thanks for rescuing him. He's better off in your home than most other that probably would have been interested in him. But I hope people realize the responsibility that goes into owning many of these animals. 

With that aside, I actually don't think he looks much like a hybrid at at all. At least the ones I've seen in person and photos of. Maybe you'll be able to tell a little bit better when he's older.


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## GSDElsa

Out of curiosity, why do wolf hybrid breeders feel that breeding to a GSD or doberman is bad and appear to only think appropriate mixes are huskies?

Welcome to Rebel Wolves


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## robinkrumm

well I have seen purebred akc cream shepherds that look very much like him often wolves have yellow eyes,? his comformation at least right now looks much closer the the shepherd then the wolf? wolves and hiskies both tend to have smaller ears the this pup too.?


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## JKlatsky

Also incidentally...the mask that you are seeing happens in all Shepherd puppies that I've ever owned. It's them shedding the puppy coat. 

Here's Tag. Not a great shot...but I think you can see the same thing.


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## Whiteshepherds

GSDElsa said:


> Out of curiosity, why do wolf hybrid breeders feel that breeding to a GSD or doberman is bad and appear to only think appropriate mixes are huskies?


Could be because Siberian Huskies more closely resemble the wolves in appearance.


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## counter

Konotashi said:


> He's a gorgeous dog, whether he does have wolf in him or not.
> 
> But I very much doubt that he has_ red wolf_ in him, given that they are a critically endangered species.
> 
> Red Wolf Facts and Video - Canis rufus - Defenders of Wildlife - Defenders of Wildlife


Yeah, I don't think he does either. If you saw the photos I posted above of the arctic wolf cubs, he highly resembles them more than any other type of wolf. He has a creamy coat that's slowly turning red, and he has the amber eyes of a wolf. His ears are a bit big, so I'm not sure if they're going to keep growing, or whether he'll grow into them. His ears surely are not as big as Nara's were at this age.


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## counter

DJEtzel said:


> The friend of mine's mid-content dog would turn into an aggressive whirlwind whenever he could see or smell another male dog.


Beowulf has shown zero aggression in any form. I am able to feed him and remove his food before he's done without a snarl or growl. I'm running him through all of the training and tests to ensure that he wouldn't hurt my 4-year old or 2-year old daughters, and my wife is pregnant with #3. He has also been around our 4 cats and has not gone after them other than to play. Paw Paw, on the other hand, has tried to kill our cats any chance he gets. When all 3 dogs are out in the back yard, Paw Paw will chase to kill any squirrels, Nara chases them to play, and Beowulf just sits and watches the entertainment. Maybe his prey drive (if he is wolf, husky and malamute) will kick in later as he matures? Paw Paw came to us at 7 months old and was already killing squirrels in our backyard in Virginia. Nara has never caught or killed anything. Haha.

But Paw Paw is an alpha male, and still in tact. He ensures that Beowulf never forgets his place in the pack, constantly keeping him in check. If Beowulf grows to be larger than Paw Paw and tries to battle him for the position of alpha, we'll end up neutering him and leaving Paw Paw in tact. Nara is an alpha female, so the two of them combined remind Beowulf his position on the totem pole.

So, other than nipping, mouthing and teething, I'm not worried about him at all. We'll see how it changes once he gets his adult teeth in.


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## Dawn

I owned a wolf hybrid for 13 yrs and he just passed a few months ago.
I you have any questions just let me know.
when he died he weighed 137lbs
he never acted like your typical house dog. I not recommed people breeding them. I loved my chinook and I knew what I was getting into most people think wow th is is cool and get these dogs and do not realize the difference there is between there typical household dog.
Many will wind up going to shelters and they do not do well.
any questions you like to ask me feel fee...
He was 80% easter timber world and siberan husky mix.
He came from south dakota...


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## Chicagocanine

I think he looks a lot more like a Husky/Malamute mix with no wolf than a wolf hybrid. That faint mask appearance is pretty common in those two breeds. Most hybrids (especially with that much wolf blood) look a lot more "wolfy".
If he is a hybrid, you probably won't see the aggression until maturity/puberty.



Examples of Husky/Mal:

































Here are a few Huskies with the same sort of faded mask:
















































You can find it in Malamutes too:


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## AgileGSD

APBTLove said:


> Hmm.. Without his breeding actually being DOCUMENTED... There is no way to be SURE he's a mix. It's possible, but not likely. A LOT of people try to pass their northern mixes are wolfdogs because they fetch a prettier price.


 ITA. The majority of "hybrids" out there are really just Northern breed mixes, often with GSD. They are labeled as hybrids by people looking to make a quick buck off a mixed breed litter (or who purposely bred a couple Northern breeds together to pass off as wolves), by owners who think "my dogs looks so much like a wolf, must be part wolf!" and/or by owners who think it just sounds too cool to say they have a hybrid. The average person really seems to just has a very generic idea about what wolves look like. People often ask me if the Belgians are wolves or say "wow they look just like wolves!". They do have a bit of a wolf-y look to them but they look more like fantasy wolves than real ones 

For that reason, take what you hear about hybrids from other supposed hybrid owners with a grain of salt. The person you're talking to could have a real hybrid but more often than not, they have a dog that in a general sort of way resembles a wolf. We had someone in one of the 4H dog clubs bring a "wolf hybrid" to the county fair this year. These people spent the whole week bragging about their "wolfdog", telling people what great pets wolfdogs make and people were just eating it up "OOoooooooo a wolf!!! Honey come see the wolf!!!". The true story though is he looks like a Sibe/GSD mix and was found as a stray at the local park. 

There is good and bad to the vast misrepresentation of wolf hybrids. The good is that these pet owners don't have a hybrid. Hybrids of any meaningful content are not well suited to living a pet dog lifestyle. The bad is that people are basing their thoughts about what great pets wolves/hybrids make on plain ol' domestic dogs. 

The best sort of information on keeping wolves and wolfdogs as pets comes from places such as Wolf Park. Here are Wolf Park's resources on hybrids:

Articles:
Wolf Park - Wolf Hybrid Articles

Guide (some of this seems to be down tonight):
Wolf Park - America's Other Controversial Canine, the Wolf Hybrid

To everyone who posted saying how much they'd love to have a hybrid, do you mind saying what it is that appeals to you about them?


----------



## KZoppa

i havent read everyone's responses but i can honestly say i would LOVE to have a hybrid. He looks like he MAY have some wolf traits but i would say he's more husky/malamute.


----------



## Jelpy

He reminds me of Lycan, with those big ole' clown feet. 

Jelpy and the mesquite mafia


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## Jessiewessie99

There was a purebred Siberian Husky who a vey wolfish face, and those wolf eyes. But nothing but looks made him seem wolfish. Total sweetheart, he got adopted =) Basically anyone who says that wolf mixes make awesome pets, or something along those lines do not have real wolf mixes.

Most people cannot handle a wolf mix. So if you want wolf like animal, get a GSD, Husky, Malamute, or a Northern Breed.


----------



## Whiteshepherds

Does anyone know why people do this..is it just for the shock value? 

Wolves are amazing animals...why dilute them with dog genes? (no offense to dogs, )


----------



## Jessiewessie99

Whiteshepherds said:


> Does anyone know why people do this..is it just for the shock value?
> 
> Wolves are amazing animals...why dilute them with dog genes? (no offense to dogs, )


Money, they think its cool.


----------



## Whiteshepherds

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Money, they think its cool.


Ah the cool factor...I think I flunked that in college. :crazy:


----------



## Greydusk

Whiteshepherds said:


> Does anyone know why people do this..is it just for the shock value?
> 
> Wolves are amazing animals...why dilute them with dog genes? (no offense to dogs, )


Same reason people buy alligators, savannah cats and other exotic animals. They're exotic and different. Everyone has a dog, but a wolf dog, that's something unique. 

On a side note I had someone who came up and asked me if my dog was part wolf, I replied no. He said that mine had to be part wolf because his coloring was just like his dog...and his was part wolf.  I really doubt that he had a hybrid. Supposed hybrid owners aren't really the best authorities on hybrids.


----------



## AgileGSD

Jessiewessie99 said:


> There was a purebred Siberian Husky who a vey wolfish face, and those wolf eyes.


 The agouti colored Siberian Huskies look quite wolf-ish and would be another good alternative for people drawn to hybrids because of looks:






















Malamutes also come in agouti:


----------



## Greydusk

AgileGSD said:


> The agouti colored Siberian Huskies look quite wolf-ish and would be another good alternative for people drawn to hybrids because of looks:
> 
> Malamutes also come in agouti


I'm sure those would fool more than the majority of average joes if you wanted to pass them off as wolves.


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## Jessiewessie99

Mason looked like this:
http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/breedinformation/working/images/sibhusk.jpg

with these eyes:
http://www.solsticearts.com/acatalog/siberianhuskey.jpg

Some guy at the dog park I used to go to with Tanner insisted Tanner was a wolf mix. Tanner has the wolfish coat, but a completely domesticated GSD.


----------



## DJEtzel

counter said:


> Beowulf has shown zero aggression in any form. I am able to feed him and remove his food before he's done without a snarl or growl. I'm running him through all of the training and tests to ensure that he wouldn't hurt my 4-year old or 2-year old daughters, and my wife is pregnant with #3. He has also been around our 4 cats and has not gone after them other than to play. Paw Paw, on the other hand, has tried to kill our cats any chance he gets. When all 3 dogs are out in the back yard, Paw Paw will chase to kill any squirrels, Nara chases them to play, and Beowulf just sits and watches the entertainment. Maybe his prey drive (if he is wolf, husky and malamute) will kick in later as he matures? Paw Paw came to us at 7 months old and was already killing squirrels in our backyard in Virginia. Nara has never caught or killed anything. Haha.
> 
> But Paw Paw is an alpha male, and still in tact. He ensures that Beowulf never forgets his place in the pack, constantly keeping him in check. If Beowulf grows to be larger than Paw Paw and tries to battle him for the position of alpha, we'll end up neutering him and leaving Paw Paw in tact. Nara is an alpha female, so the two of them combined remind Beowulf his position on the totem pole.
> 
> So, other than nipping, mouthing and teething, I'm not worried about him at all. We'll see how it changes once he gets his adult teeth in.


Like someone else said, the aggression wouldn't start until he got older/bigger, but neutering would not do a darned thing if he is in fact wolf-mix. My friend's mid-content was neutered since he was a puppy and was still wildy aggressive towards ANYTHING if he could so much as smell another male. (Even submissive males)


----------



## Shavy

DJEtzel said:


> I have a friend on another forum who has a few low-high content mixes. If you PM me, I can give you her contact information.
> 
> Personally, I don't think he has wolf in him, and if he does, he's a very low-content. I just don't see any wolf traits in him. I would imagine you'd be having huge issues with your male sibe and him as well if he were.


I have to say, I agree with the others that are saying that pup is lovely, but no wolf in him. 

I know it's cool to own something different, but you do a disservice when you try to claim your dog is "part wolf" - because wolfdogs just do NOT act like dogs. You think GSDs are hard to handle? Try a wolfdog with even mid-content wolf. By trying to pass off mixes (or even purebreds that look wolfish) as wolfdogs, you are representing the animals as just another dog, which they aren't. And the people who like your "wolfdog" may get a real one - and that animal will probably be quickly homeless or put to sleep.

As to "Arctic wolves", they're endangered and not in the hands of hobby breeders, especially not those trying to dilute them with dog genes. You aren't going to find "arctic wolfdogs".

Everything you've said about your pup (and all the pictures you've posted) say "dog", not "wolf" or even "part wolf". If your pup had wolf in him, he WOULDN'T be well-adjusted. Wolves aren't dogs, and they have a naturally high-strung temperament that is more than leery of changes, strange people, travel, and all the things that well-socialized dogs tend to take in stride. And that's even the most well-socialized of wolves. The fact that your pup likes everyone and is easy-peasy is the first indicator that you have yourself a great domesticated dog. And as others have echoed, he just does not have any real wolf traits.

My suggestion? Tell people he's a "probably husky mix" because that's what he is. And love the fact that he has a wolfish appearance. But please, don't think he's a wolfdog because that's cool, and don't tell others he's a wolfdog. You don't want to be responsible for someone getting a wild animal they can't handle and that animal ending up dead.




counter said:


> Yeah, I don't think he does either. If you saw the photos I posted above of the arctic wolf cubs, he highly resembles them more than any other type of wolf. He has a creamy coat that's slowly turning red, and he has the amber eyes of a wolf. His ears are a bit big, so I'm not sure if they're going to keep growing, or whether he'll grow into them. His ears surely are not as big as Nara's were at this age.


I'm sorry, he just isn't, no matter how much you wish it were true. Also, ALL wolves are born dark. Even arctic wolves. They lighten as they get older. Your pup, to my eye (having worked with dogs for over a decade) looks like he's got some heavy shepherd or husky leanings. He'll probably be a very nice medium to large-sized dog with a temperament that resembles either of those breeds. He's beautiful, and I hope you get many happy years from him.


----------



## Jessiewessie99

I am just curious, why would neuter one and not both?Not trying to say you have to or should, just wondering.


----------



## counter

Jessiewessie99 said:


> There was a purebred Siberian Husky who a vey wolfish face, and those wolf eyes. But nothing but looks made him seem wolfish. Total sweetheart, he got adopted =) Basically anyone who says that wolf mixes make awesome pets, or something along those lines do not have real wolf mixes.
> 
> Most people cannot handle a wolf mix. So if you want wolf like animal, get a GSD, Husky, Malamute, or a Northern Breed.


We could totally pass Beowulf off as the son of Paw Paw and Nara (even though she's spayed)! Haha. People would honestly believe us, too.

But yeah, since getting him, I've immersed myself in wolf research, getting books from the library and watching DVD documentaries. I've also met people who have experience owning/raising real wolves and/or wolfdogs/hybrids, and they've all been able to look at Beowulf in person or in pics and they know he DOES have some wolf in him. How much? Hard to tell. But I see a lot of people saying they don't see any wolf in him at all, so that's strange. I posted pics of the arctic wolf cubs in this thread, and he looks like a perfect mix of artic wolf with husky or malamute. For him to be just husky/malamute, well, his tail does not curve over his back like Paw Paw's. He does have bigger ears, but not as big as a GSD. He has sharper teeth that Paw Paw or Nara ever had (not sure if this is a wolf trait). And each tooth has its main point, with extra points on each side that are super sharp. I don't think dogs have anything like this. I may have thrown people off when I quoted the people I got him from, saying that he's mixed with gray and red wolf. After looking at those arctic wolf cub pics, I would say that, if he has any wolf in him, it's got to be arctic wolf. Now, if you look at the Tamaskan breed (wolfdogs with zero wolf in them), they are made to look more like the gray wolves versus an arctic wolf. So, yeah, you're right, he doesn't look like a Tamaskan, who are Malamute/Husky/GSD mixes.

The bottom line as one of you said: whatever he is, wolf or not, he's a good looking little man! I'm happy to have saved him, and didn't have to pay $2000 for the hybrid and Tamaskan going rate. I appreciate all of the comments and feedback. Keep them coming! Educate me on what you know of hybrids or hybrid imposters! Expand my knowledge by sharing yours!!!


----------



## counter

DJEtzel said:


> Like someone else said, the aggression wouldn't start until he got older/bigger, but neutering would not do a darned thing if he is in fact wolf-mix. My friend's mid-content was neutered since he was a puppy and was still wildy aggressive towards ANYTHING if he could so much as smell another male. (Even submissive males)


Oh, you'd better believe that I'll be watching them like a hawk. I won't allow any aggression in my household, especially with our 2 young daughters around. I have not had it yet, and don't plan to start. If neutering didn't work, then I'd have to figure something out. Paw Paw was here first, but I'd hate to have to get rid of Beowulf. It would be a last resort only. We already have our house divided with baby gates to protect the cats from Paw Paw. The cats live upstairs and the dogs downstairs and outside. Only time will tell! But I've also researched the doberman breed, and they are the same way. 99% of doberman experts will tell you that, if you already own a male, you never want to bring a dobe male into the pack, because when they mature you'll have similar issues.


----------



## counter

Shavy said:


> I have to say, I agree with the others that are saying that pup is lovely, but no wolf in him.
> 
> I know it's cool to own something different, but you do a disservice when you try to claim your dog is "part wolf" - because wolfdogs just do NOT act like dogs. You think GSDs are hard to handle? Try a wolfdog with even mid-content wolf. By trying to pass off mixes (or even purebreds that look wolfish) as wolfdogs, you are representing the animals as just another dog, which they aren't. And the people who like your "wolfdog" may get a real one - and that animal will probably be quickly homeless or put to sleep.
> 
> As to "Arctic wolves", they're endangered and not in the hands of hobby breeders, especially not those trying to dilute them with dog genes. You aren't going to find "arctic wolfdogs".
> 
> Everything you've said about your pup (and all the pictures you've posted) say "dog", not "wolf" or even "part wolf". If your pup had wolf in him, he WOULDN'T be well-adjusted. Wolves aren't dogs, and they have a naturally high-strung temperament that is more than leery of changes, strange people, travel, and all the things that well-socialized dogs tend to take in stride. And that's even the most well-socialized of wolves. The fact that your pup likes everyone and is easy-peasy is the first indicator that you have yourself a great domesticated dog. And as others have echoed, he just does not have any real wolf traits.
> 
> My suggestion? Tell people he's a "probably husky mix" because that's what he is. And love the fact that he has a wolfish appearance. But please, don't think he's a wolfdog because that's cool, and don't tell others he's a wolfdog. You don't want to be responsible for someone getting a wild animal they can't handle and that animal ending up dead.
> 
> I'm sorry, he just isn't, no matter how much you wish it were true. Also, ALL wolves are born dark. Even arctic wolves. They lighten as they get older. Your pup, to my eye (having worked with dogs for over a decade) looks like he's got some heavy shepherd or husky leanings. He'll probably be a very nice medium to large-sized dog with a temperament that resembles either of those breeds. He's beautiful, and I hope you get many happy years from him.


I don't think I ever said it was "cool" to own a wolfdog or hybrid. Maybe someone else did? I do love the wolf look, as many people think our Paw Paw is a wolf. I was very interested in getting a Tamaskan (because there is NO wolf in them) until I found out that they cost more than my GSD. I had been searching Craigslist for a quiet (non-barking) outdoor playmate for Paw Paw since Nara likes to play guard dog. I wanted to bring in a female red and white husky with brown eyes, but she had to have soft markings (per my wife). I was searching CL every day for husky and/or malamute, and I came across the post for a wolf/malamute/husky rescue. It was Beowulf, and although he was mostly cream when we got him, he is slowly turning reddish. His dark spots/patches and mask are fading. He has the look I wanted in the female, but happens to be a male, which is fine by me.

GSDs hard to handle? Nara has been wonderful, so not sure what you meant there. I spend all of my free time training each of these dogs, and they get plenty of exercise daily with each other and with me (walks, long distance runs, bike rides, etc.). 

And as far as his behavior, I've raised Nara from 7 weeks and Paw Paw from 7 months. Beowulf, of course is an individual, but he definitely has traits and charateristics that neither of my other dogs displayed. It's hard to tell if it's because of the abuse he endured, or whether it's the "wolf" in him.

It's strange that some people with wolf experience tell me that he is for sure part wolf, and others who also claim wolf knowledge say he has no wolf in him. Either way, I like the look of a wolf, and if I can have that look without any wolf in his blood, good for me. That's why I was so attracted to the Tamaskan (just not the $2K price tag). I am not someone who thinks it's cool to own wolves or hybrids or any exotic animal. I was shocked when people asked me if Paw Paw was a wolf. Wolves' tails don't curl up over the back like a husky. I think that, at one point, someone thought Nara was a wolf. Haha.

I'll keep doing my research, and am still trying to hunt down the breeder here in Oregon to get to the bottom of this. Supposedly Beowulf's father is a gray wolf/malamute mix and weighs 190 lbs and he lives at the breeder's house. I'd like to meet him one day. But the more people like yourself who are trying to help, the more I'll know an understand what Beowulf is and isn't.

Beowulf surely has husky/malamute in him. He curls up in a little wolf ball to sleep like Paw Paw does. The only thing that points to GSD is his slightly larger ears, which could be a cross between a husky ear and GSD ear, because they are bigger than a husky but smaller than a GSD, and the fact that his tail does not curl up over his back. It kinda sticks straight out when he's running and playing, and if he gets super excited, it curls up a bit, but not like a husky. I've watched documentaries on wolves and their tails do the same thing. His tail is mostly relaxed and down like a shepherd. He has husky paws for sure.

Thanks for the feedback! Keep it coming. I appreciate all of the help and advise I can get.


----------



## counter

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I am just curious, why would neuter one and not both?Not trying to say you have to or should, just wondering.


The only reason I would neuter either one is for aggression issues. If they can grow up and mature with no signs of aggression, then I'd leave them both in tact. If, when Beowulf matures, he shows signs of wanting to take over Paw Paw's position in the pack, he would get fixed since he joined the pack last. If I had to, I'd neuter them both, but only as a last resort. I'm hoping that my love, time, dedication and training to/for them will be enough to avoid any sort of negative situation. I've spoken with my highly trusted holistic vet about various scenarios, and unless we have issues, it's better for my dogs to stay in tact since I do not have to worry about aggression (so far), roaming/jumping the fence/digging under the fence, unwanted progeny (Nara is spayed), humping, marking, or any health reasons that neutering could help with. 

I want them to remain as natural, healthy and happy as possible. We only do certain vaccines (parvo, rabies, etc.). I don't use frontline or heartgard, etc. They are on a raw diet (although I'm in the process of temporarily switching back to kibble for a short period until we can find more money to help support a raw diet again).

Hope that helps answer your question.


----------



## Jessiewessie99

oh ok. i was just curious.


----------



## KZoppa

Whiteshepherds said:


> Does anyone know why people do this..is it just for the shock value?
> 
> Wolves are amazing animals...why dilute them with dog genes? (no offense to dogs, )


 
i love wolves. I have loved wolves since i was 9. They are beautifuls animals. I respect them for the powerful animals they are. I would love to have a hybrid but i also know what i would be getting into. I would much rather buy some property and run a wolf refuge. I've met one true hybrid in my life and i've heard a lot of people call their dogs wolf dogs. Trooper was a pretty awesome guy but only if he accepted you as a part of his pack. He was 70% timber wolf 30% GSD. He was gorgeous but definitely not an animal i would ever have wanted to mess with. Think of 170 lbs of teeth and solid muscle. He was housetrained but never stayed inside more than 10 minutes. He made it very clear he wanted to be outside, no matter what the weather. He also had about 30 acres of woods to run through that was entirely his to claim. They didnt try to treat him like a dog. They knew he had the wolf in there and they couldnt expect him to act like some house dog. They took care of him but also let him be himself. your pup is probably a GSD husky mix. i'm not saying he doesnt have wolf mixed in there but its very much doubtful given his personality the way you say it is. he's a good looking dog no matter what he's got in those genetics of his. Good luck with him.


----------



## Good_Karma

I looked but was unable to find the source of a documentary I had seen (National Geographic I think) about an experiment that was done by researchers where they raised a wolf pup (100%) by hand from about 3 weeks old. It went well enough until a certain age, probably puberty, and then the wolf became unmanageable, mouthy, pushy and dangerous. I think the researchers were studying nature vs. nurture.

In any case, it made owning a wolf seem like a really bad idea. A hybrid is probably a bit more feasible, but you would still have a lot more behavioral issues to overcome than you would have if it were 100% dog.

Looks like things are going well for you thus far, hope it remains so. Good for you for doing your research on wolves and for reaching out for help. He is a cute little bugger!


----------



## Whiteshepherds

counter said:


> The bottom line as one of you said: whatever he is, wolf or not, he's a good looking little man! *I'm happy to have saved him,*


That's important to remember..(myself included)..you didn't set out to find this particular dog and you aren't promoting crossing wolves with dogs, you just happen to find yourself in the position of owning one!

I uploaded a picture of a purebred white shepherd and a purebred white malamute. They were approx. 7 months old when the picture was taken. As you can see they're very similar in many ways. If they had been bred, (no they weren't) and ended up in shelters, this mix would be the kind people debated...husky/shepherd? Mal/shepherd? A little Akita maybe?..and of course it's inevitable...someone would probably say.."I think there might be some wolf in there" The breeds (husky, shepherd, malamute, akita etc.) have so many similar traits it no wonder we have a hard time figuring out the hybrids.

To understand the dog you'll need to understand where he comes from and what makes him tick. Malamutes, huskies and shepherds all come with a different set of baggage. Obviously wolves do too...you get to learn about them all. 

Who knows where this will take you, I hope it's an interesting and fun journey. I bet in the next year you'll know more about wolves and all these other breeds than you thought possible.


----------



## counter

Good_Karma said:


> I looked but was unable to find the source of a documentary I had seen (National Geographic I think) about an experiment that was done by researchers where they raised a wolf pup (100%) by hand from about 3 weeks old. It went well enough until a certain age, probably puberty, and then the wolf became unmanageable, mouthy, pushy and dangerous. I think the researchers were studying nature vs. nurture.
> 
> In any case, it made owning a wolf seem like a really bad idea. A hybrid is probably a bit more feasible, but you would still have a lot more behavioral issues to overcome than you would have if it were 100% dog.
> 
> Looks like things are going well for you thus far, hope it remains so. Good for you for doing your research on wolves and for reaching out for help. He is a cute little bugger!


I've already watched 2 wolf documentaries by NatGeo, but not the one you mentioned. I'll have to look for it.

And yes, things are going well so far. I'm monitoring him every second, and when he's not able to be watched, he goes in his crate. I won't allow anything to happen to him or to my children until I know more about his bloodlines and understand him better. His teeth are the sharpest "dog" teeth I've ever come into contact with, and each tooth has a barb on either side of it. Not sure if all dogs have this too, but neither of my other dogs ever had this. I could tolerate my GSD and husky nips, but not Beowulf.

Cute little bugger, huh?! Haha. You're absolutely right! I'm so lucky to have found him, and vice versa for him too methinks!


----------



## counter

Whiteshepherds said:


> That's important to remember..(myself included)..you didn't set out to find this particular dog and you aren't promoting crossing wolves with dogs, you just happen to find yourself in the position of owning one!
> 
> I uploaded a picture of a purebred white shepherd and a purebred white malamute. They were approx. 7 months old when the picture was taken. As you can see they're very similar in many ways. If they had been bred, (no they weren't) and ended up in shelters, this mix would be the kind people debated...husky/shepherd? Mal/shepherd? A little Akita maybe?..and of course it's inevitable...someone would probably say.."I think there might be some wolf in there" The breeds (husky, shepherd, malamute, akita etc.) have so many similar traits it no wonder we have a hard time figuring out the hybrids.
> 
> To understand the dog you'll need to understand where he comes from and what makes him tick. Malamutes, huskies and shepherds all come with a different set of baggage. Obviously wolves do too...you get to learn about them all.
> 
> Who knows where this will take you, I hope it's an interesting and fun journey. I bet in the next year you'll know more about wolves and all these other breeds than you thought possible.


That's a great photo of 2 beautiful dogs!

And you're right, I was on Craigslist looking for a husky or malamute, and found a "wolf" instead. He met all of the categories that I was looking for, and after hearing that he was being abused, I took him in. If I started over and found the same little man without a mention of wolf in the ad, he would still be at my feet right now chewing on his marrow bone! It just so happens that everyone along the way has told me he is part wolf, so I'm doing my research to cover my own butt just in case he is.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

counter said:


> That's a great photo of 2 beautiful dogs!
> 
> And you're right, I was on Craigslist looking for a husky or malamute, and found a "wolf" instead. He met all of the categories that I was looking for, and after hearing that he was being abused, I took him in. If I started over and found the same little man without a mention of wolf in the ad, he would still be at my feet right now chewing on his marrow bone! It just so happens that everyone along the way has told me he is part wolf, so I'm doing my research to cover my own butt just in case he is.


I think the only way you can be sure, wolf or not, is DNA testing. If I had dog which had a good chance of being a wolf hybrid I would want to know to be prepared for the unique needs/training required, not to mention potential legal and liability issues.

That of course comes with risks, as has been noted wolf hybrids are illegal in several states....(didn't catch if your state was one of them).


DNA Breed Identification Test Kit - ID Tags


----------



## Good_Karma

counter said:


> I've already watched 2 wolf documentaries by NatGeo, but not the one you mentioned. I'll have to look for it.
> 
> And yes, things are going well so far. I'm monitoring him every second, and when he's not able to be watched, he goes in his crate. I won't allow anything to happen to him or to my children until I know more about his bloodlines and understand him better. His teeth are the sharpest "dog" teeth I've ever come into contact with, and each tooth has a barb on either side of it. Not sure if all dogs have this too, but neither of my other dogs ever had this. I could tolerate my GSD and husky nips, but not Beowulf.
> 
> Cute little bugger, huh?! Haha. You're absolutely right! I'm so lucky to have found him, and vice versa for him too methinks!


I'd love to see a close-up of those teeth, sounds very intriguing.

That documentary also included segments on a fox breeding where they selected for the most social characteristics, and they were able to detect physical changes that accompanied the tamer behaviors. It also had a bit on that super smart border collie that knows 200 words. Maybe somebody else has seen it and can tell you the name. Wish I could find it for you, the footage of the wolf in the house was fascinating.


----------



## AgileGSD

Gwenhwyfair said:


> I think the only way you can be sure, wolf or not, is DNA testing. If I had dog which had a good chance of being a wolf hybrid I would want to know to be prepared for the unique needs/training required.


 Actually there is no DNA test which can tell if a dog is part wolf. 



Good_Karma said:


> I looked but was unable to find the source of a documentary I had seen (National Geographic I think) about an experiment that was done by researchers where they raised a wolf pup (100%) by hand from about 3 weeks old. It went well enough until a certain age, probably puberty, and then the wolf became unmanageable, mouthy, pushy and dangerous. I think the researchers were studying nature vs. nurture.


 This is actually pretty common with people trying to keep any sort of wild animal as a pet. They are fine as juveniles but once they mature, they tend to still act like wild animals. Domesticated animals retain juvenile characteristics. 

People see "wolf" in all sorts of dogs. People are asked if sable GSDs are wolves. I'm asked if the Belgians are wolves. People are always asked if Sibes or Malamutes are "part wolf". The agouti Sibes and Mals obviously have a very wolf look to them but no wolf in their pedigree. It is well known among people knowledgeable about hybrids that that vast majority are misrepresented, either by not being wolf hybrids at all or being much lower content than what is being claimed. If you do a quick google search on wolf hybrid misrepresentation, you'll see experts saying approximately 70% or more are misrepresented. That's pretty significant. 

People see these dogs and think "wow they look like wolves!":


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

AgileGSD said:


> Actually there is no DNA test which can tell if a dog is part wolf.
> 
> 
> 
> <snipped>


You sure about that? 

DNA testing has become very advanced. Perhaps the over the counter breed ID kits don't check for certain markers but certainly there are DNA labs that could perform this kind of testing. 

I watched a program recently where the evolution of the domesticated dog was traced using DNA.


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

Gwenhwyfair said:


> You sure about that?
> 
> DNA testing has become very advanced. Perhaps the over the counter breed ID kits don't check for certain markers but certainly there are DNA labs that could perform this kind of testing.
> 
> I watched a program recently where the evolution of the domesticated dog was traced using DNA.


Wolf Or Dog? -

SpringerLink - Conservation Genetics, Volume 9, Number 5


----------



## Whiteshepherds

AgileGSD said:


> People see "wolf" in all sorts of dogs. People are asked if sable GSDs are


Wow, these pictures would make great posters!


----------



## counter

Thank you to all of you who have taken the time to read everything in here and who have helped me out thus far. I really appreciate it. I'm still doing my research and am trying to figure this out.


----------



## LaRen616

COUNTER!!

I need to see puppy pictures! I MUST I MUST!


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## Good_Karma

Okay, maybe it was a PBS documentary.

Dogs That Changed the World - Introduction - Dog Breeds | Nature


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## counter

LaRen616 said:


> COUNTER!!
> 
> I need to see puppy pictures! I MUST I MUST!


I don't understand why everyone else can see them except you. You might need a new computer, or borrow someone else's computer, library, etc. Haha. I'll check into loading them into my profile like you mentioned, but I don't know how.


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## LaRen616

counter said:


> I don't understand why everyone else can see them except you. You might need a new computer, or borrow someone else's computer, library, etc. Haha. I'll check into loading them into my profile like you mentioned, but I don't know how.


I am on my work computer so they ban pictures from certain sites like photobucket.

You have pictures of your dogs PAW PAW and Nara on your profile, I can view them.


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## BowWowMeow

Counter,

I just wanted to give you a heads up on pack order. It doesn't matter who came first--some dogs are more dominant than others. If you try to force a hierarchy that doesn't mesh with their actually personalities then you will have a HUGE problem on your hands. 

I know you take your role as a fair and consistent leader seriously but that's really all you can do. If Beowulf is more dominant than Paw-Paw then he will eventually be above him in the canine pack, even though Paw-Paw is older and was there first. 

Also, I think you will start to see some changes as Beowulf gets a little older and his hormones really start kicking in. Rafi was neutered at 1.5 years old but he has really only fully matured in status in the last year and a half (and he's between 4 and 4.5).

I also wanted to say that I know you'll do right by this dog; you've always struck me as a very caring and responsible animal guardian.


----------



## LaRen616

BowWowMeow said:


> Counter,
> 
> I just wanted to give you a heads up on pack order. It doesn't matter who came first--some dogs are more dominant than others. If you try to force a hierarchy that doesn't mesh with their actually personalities then you will have a HUGE problem on your hands.
> 
> I know you take your role as a fair and consistent leader seriously but that's really all you can do. *If Beowulf is more dominant than Paw-Paw then he will eventually be above him in the canine pack, even though Paw-Paw is older and was there first*.
> 
> Also, I think you will start to see some changes as Beowulf gets a little older and his hormones really start kicking in. Rafi was neutered at 1.5 years old but he has really only fully matured in status in the last year and a half (and he's between 4 and 4.5).


This is correct.

My GSD is 1.5 years old I have had him since he was 11 weeks

My GSD/Husky mix is 1.5 years old I have had him for 3 weeks

The mix is the dominant one. He is the boss and the GSD knows it.


----------



## counter

LaRen616 said:


> I am on my work computer so they ban pictures from certain sites like photobucket.
> 
> You have pictures of your dogs PAW PAW and Nara on your profile, I can view them.


O ok. I'll see what I can do. I just had surgery and have been in bed since Tuesday on pain meds, which is why I have all of this time to post on these boards. Normally I only come on to read and ask questions. Haha.


----------



## counter

BowWowMeow said:


> Counter,
> 
> I just wanted to give you a heads up on pack order. It doesn't matter who came first--some dogs are more dominant than others. If you try to force a hierarchy that doesn't mesh with their actually personalities then you will have a HUGE problem on your hands.
> 
> I know you take your role as a fair and consistent leader seriously but that's really all you can do. If Beowulf is more dominant than Paw-Paw then he will eventually be above him in the canine pack, even though Paw-Paw is older and was there first.
> 
> Also, I think you will start to see some changes as Beowulf gets a little older and his hormones really start kicking in. Rafi was neutered at 1.5 years old but he has really only fully matured in status in the last year and a half (and he's between 4 and 4.5).
> 
> I also wanted to say that I know you'll do right by this dog; you've always struck me as a very caring and responsible animal guardian.


You're right! One of the wolf documentaries I just watched showed the evolution of a pack as new members were added, and some of the wolves at the bottom eventually moved up, while some near the top got put at the bottom, and some challenged the alpha for his position. I'm hoping Beowulf's time with us and our pack will rehabilitate him after what he went through at the junkyard with the beatings, abuse and starvation. I just don't see him, as of right now, ever becoming more dominant than Paw Paw or Nara. He still pees himself when excited or scared. We're working with him on this. My other 2 dogs never did anything like that. He just seems very timid and somewhat skittish, but his socializing with Nara and Paw Paw, and hopefully the love and training we give him will help boost his confidence over time, especially as he slowly begins to forget those early months of his life in that bad situation.

If Beowulf becomes more dominant that Paw Paw or Nara in time, then I guess that's how it is going to be, and there's nothing I'll do to change that. Things will evolve the way they're supposed to. Again, you're right!

Thanks again for the words and compliments! I'm doing the best I can, and love these animals as if they were my children, because they are!


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## Miikkas mom

I didn’t want to say anything because this happened a long time ago and I can’t remember all of the details but I’ll tell you as much as I can remember (which isn’t very much)

Years ago, a good friend of my brother had a wolf hybrid. He got him when he was a puppy (we all lived in Minnesota at the time). My brother practically lived at this guy’s house. The owner of the hybrid is wheelchair bound and requires help, every now and again, so my brother would go over and help him out. 

Anyway, things were fine until the “dog” turned about a year-and-a-half old. Then things went downhill fast! The guy lived in a somewhat rural setting (just out side of the Twin Cities) and unfortunately would just let the dog just run loose (big mistake!). Well, as you can imagine the hybrid went around killing (and eating) everything it found, cats, small dogs, livestock, etc. Naturally, his neighbors were furious, and scared too. My brother tried to help train the dog to stay in the yard. He even built a kennel for him but the owner was part Native American and believed the dog should be able to run free so he hardly ever put the dog in the kennel – unless my brother was around, or if the DNR was parked out on the road then he used it. :thinking: At one point, my hubby and I were asked to take the "dog" but I didn't want it. Honestly, I was scared to death of this dog. He was a beautiful animal but he looked mean.  Plus, our kids were young and we had a cocker spaniel so I was very worried about their safety. I do believe this "dog" was more wolf than dog. 

Eventually – and these are the details I have a hard time remembering - the DNR (Department of Natural Resources) came and shot and killed the dog! Again, I can’t remember how the DNR got involved but it was the DNR that shot him. At one point, they talked about taking him to a wolf sanctuary in northern Minnesota but for some reason that didn’t work out – I think the sanctuary would not take him because he was not 100% wolf. It was just a very sad story all around. 

So, if this is a wolf hybrid you’ll need to be very careful. Maybe not all hybrids are as aggressive as this guy was, though. Plus, with proper training things might be ok. Good luck! He sure is a beautiful pup!!


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## Taylor

I had a Wolf /Collie Mix growing up. He had alot of the wolf characteristics/Temperment with a collie type eye set. He was gorgeous. He was very aloof and wasnt a people dog unless you were part of his pack, meaning us. He roamed alot at night and did definatley howl at the moon lol. He was a good boy and lived 17 years. He passed when I was almost 18 years old. He had horrible hd and my lil sister who was 3 at the time sat on his back. He bit her (requiring stitches above her eye) so my dad had him put down. I would honestly never ever own a hybrid or Tundra Shep. No way. Arrow was bought when I was a baby so I obviously had no say. He was one of a kind.


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## Chicagocanine

AgileGSD said:


> People see "wolf" in all sorts of dogs. People are asked if sable GSDs are wolves. I'm asked if the Belgians are wolves. People are always asked if Sibes or Malamutes are "part wolf". The agouti Sibes and Mals obviously have a very wolf look to them but no wolf in their pedigree.


Heck, people have asked me if my classic saddle-backed black and red GSD is a "wolfdog"!

A friend of mine used to claim her Collie/Malamute?/?? mix was part wolf:


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## Jessiewessie99

My 2 previous dogs were Sheltie Mixes, and they got out on Christmas Eve and were found on Christmas Day at a Wal-Mart in Paramount. The police had got a call from shoppers about 2 "wolfis" dogs wandering around. Our dogs were total sweethearts and would go up to anyone.lol

Here are my 2 previous "wolfish" dogs:









Max:









Simba:









I had a scare that Tanner had wolf in him, but I highly doubt it.But he has the coat of a wolf.When I walk Tanner he does do the "wolf walk".lol
Here is a photo of Tanner trotting:









Here is a photo of a black wolf trotting:









Similar but Tanner has no wolf, was listed as a GSD Mix at the shelter, but I think his thick coat gave the Mix vibe off.


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## Shavy

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I had a scare that Tanner had wolf in him, but I highly doubt it.But he has the coat of a wolf.When I walk Tanner he does do the "wolf walk".lol
> Here is a photo of Tanner trotting


Here's a great example showing the difference between wolf and wolf-looking dog. You can see Tanner is NOT single-tracking (but the wolf is) and that he's traveling with his tail up (while the wolf's tail is down). They may look the same to the untrained eye, but people who have experience with REAL hybrids will tell you that practically no "wolfdogs" have any wolf. Your Tanner shows how misconception can (in many cases) lead to a mistaken label of "wolf dog".


Counter, I was too lazy to quote you, but your constant insistence throughout the thread that your dog is a "wolfdog" is why I said that you seem to think it's "cool". If you didn't, you would be listening to people who said that he didn't have wolfish traits, or contacting people who actually work with wolfdogs to confirm his content (or more likely, lack thereof). "Doing research" on your own and speaking to people who have owned "wolfdogs" that most likely also were only dogs seems to me an exercise in self-delusion (sorry if that sounds harsh).

Again, I hope that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your new pup, and I'm glad he found his way into a home where he will be loved for years to come. He's a gorgeous puppy.


----------



## AgileGSD

LaRen616 said:


> This is correct.
> 
> My GSD is 1.5 years old I have had him since he was 11 weeks
> 
> My GSD/Husky mix is 1.5 years old I have had him for 3 weeks
> 
> The mix is the dominant one. He is the boss and the GSD knows it.


 Pack order among dogs seldom really works that way but people sure like to believe it does 

With domestic dogs, the ability to get along well in a group has some strong genetic tendencies. Some breeds have been selected for a very high tolerance of multiple other dogs, even same sex dogs. Some by nature tend to be pretty social and retain a lot of juvenile characteristics into adulthood when it comes to interactions with other dogs. Others are moderately to extremely prone to same sex dog aggression (SSA) towards familiar dogs. Others are moderately or extremely prone to dog aggression directed towards strange dogs. Selective breeding has really given us a wide range of different behaviors which all fall under the realm of "normal" for domestic dogs.

It can be very hard to predict with domestic dogs how well same sex pairings will work in the long run, especially between breeds prone to SSA. It will be even harder to predict how a wolf hybrid may or may not fit into your group of dogs as an adult. Malamutes are a breed that is fairly prone to SSA, as are GSDs (although I notice this pup is not supposed to have any GSD in him - gotta wonder where he got his big ears and shortish coat if he's wolf/sibe/malamute) but Sibes generally aren't. Wolves in captivity don't behave the way wolves in the wild do, where their packs are generally made up of a breeding pair and their offspring. 



Whiteshepherds said:


> Wow, these pictures would make great posters!


 Thanks! I love the mystical look that the powdery fresh snow gives. Took them at work on a very winter-y day! My boy dog and two of his kids. My husband even did some paintings from these photos 

And for fun...here is Loki doing her very best wolf:









QUOTE=Chicagocanine;1906725]Heck, people have asked me if my classic saddle-backed black and red GSD is a "wolfdog"!

A friend of mine used to claim her Collie/Malamute?/?? mix was part wolf:








[/QUOTE]

Nice wolf! I remember having people ask me if my tricolored Rough Collie was part wolf. One man insisted that he was "You don't gotta be afraid to say it, I had one and I can tell by the shape of his head that he's part wolf". :help:


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## Jessiewessie99

Shavy said:


> Here's a great example showing the difference between wolf and wolf-looking dog. You can see Tanner is NOT single-tracking (but the wolf is) and that he's traveling with his tail up (while the wolf's tail is down). They may look the same to the untrained eye, but people who have experience with REAL hybrids will tell you that practically no "wolfdogs" have any wolf. Your Tanner shows how misconception can (in many cases) lead to a mistaken label of "wolf dog".
> 
> 
> Counter, I was too lazy to quote you, but your constant insistence throughout the thread that your dog is a "wolfdog" is why I said that you seem to think it's "cool". If you didn't, you would be listening to people who said that he didn't have wolfish traits, or contacting people who actually work with wolfdogs to confirm his content (or more likely, lack thereof). "Doing research" on your own and speaking to people who have owned "wolfdogs" that most likely also were only dogs seems to me an exercise in self-delusion (sorry if that sounds harsh).
> 
> Again, I hope that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your new pup, and I'm glad he found his way into a home where he will be loved for years to come. He's a gorgeous puppy.


My aunt even insists he has some wolf because of his big paws.lol. His personality just throws everything about him being a wolf out. He loves people and being indoors.I get the wolf comment so much I take it as a compliment, but I don't go around claiming he is a wolf dog, because I know he isn't and I don't want him taken away or lawsuit.

I talked to some people who work with wolves and wolf dogs and they say Tanner just looks like a wolf, but has no wolf in him. My dad played along with the guy at the dog park who insisted Tanner was a wolf dog, my dad told him this insane story and the guy believed him! After the guy left me, my dad, a few other dog owners just started laughing.


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## counter

Shavy said:


> Counter, I was too lazy to quote you, but your constant insistence throughout the thread that your dog is a "wolfdog" is why I said that you seem to think it's "cool". If you didn't, you would be listening to people who said that he didn't have wolfish traits, or contacting people who actually work with wolfdogs to confirm his content (or more likely, lack thereof). "Doing research" on your own and speaking to people who have owned "wolfdogs" that most likely also were only dogs seems to me an exercise in self-delusion (sorry if that sounds harsh).
> 
> Again, I hope that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your new pup, and I'm glad he found his way into a home where he will be loved for years to come. He's a gorgeous puppy.


If I came across grumpy, well, I was, and I apologize. I had surgery on Tuesday and am still on heavy painkillers, so I probably took offense to what you were saying without meaning to, or even realizing that I was.

The reason I was getting grumpy was not because I think wolfdogs are "cool," but because, after so many people who claim to have knowledge of hybrids telling me that Beowulf is surely part wolf, came a bunch of others who also claim to have wolf knowledge telling me that he is not wolf at all. It was a bit confusing. I was convinced that he has some part wolf in him (and I still think he does, and am continuing my research until I can prove otherwise), and to be told that he doesn't was getting frustrating. I can relate it to the fact that people have approached me while I was walking Nara and they've told me that she wasn't a purebred GSD. I've also had people tell me that Paw Paw was a malamute and not a husky. Granted, I have pedigrees on them, so as long as I know the truth, that's all that matters.

Also, like I mentioned before, I was not on Craigslist looking for wolves or hybrids. I had actually searched for "husky" and Beowulf came up saying he was a wolf/malamute/husky. If his ad didn't mention "wolf' at all, he'd still be here with me, hybrid or not. Since rescuing him, people have honestly approached asking about him, and when I kept it hush/hush about the supposed "wolf" in him, just saying he's a malamute/husky mix, these people have pointed out that he MUST also be part wolf, as they have raised hybrids (possibly just dogs like you're saying though). So it's almost been forced on me that he's a wolf, even when I try to avoid mentioning it. So strange! Haha.

But I'm not upset at all if he's not part wolf. I just want to know exactly what he is, wolf or dog. He's my mutt, and I love him. I'd like to research those barbed teeth of his a little more, to see if that's a wolf attribute or if some dogs have them too. I'm going to rule out every possibility that he's a wolf before claiming that he's just a dog, since I'm finding things about him that my other 2 dogs don't have nor have experienced. 

I'm feeling high from painkillers right now, so I'd better end since I think I'm going off on tangents and might not be making any sense. I'm going to take Paw Paw and Beowulf for a walk with my 2 daughters now. I took Nara for a walk a few hours ago. I'll write more tonight to better explain my thoughts on what we're discussing.


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## Good_Karma

One time a little kid told me he had a dog that was part fox. I was like, "Oh, that's neat...":rolleyes2:


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## Greydusk

Good_Karma said:


> One time a little kid told me he had a dog that was part fox. I was like, "Oh, that's neat...":rolleyes2:


While I was standing in line at Petsmart I commented on how pretty this mans husky was. He tells me that he's 50% Timber wolf... Funny, because it looked like a husky to me. Oh and he bought it from a lady in a Walmart parking lot...


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## Whiteshepherds

counter said:


> I was convinced that he has some part wolf in him (and I still think he does, and *am continuing my research until I can prove otherwise*.


Actually I think this is the safest route to take and it certainly isn't going to hurt anyone. Given the remote possibility that there is some wolf in him, you'll be more aware of warning signs that you might miss otherwise.

Please post pictures as he grows, I'd love to see what he ends up looking like, regardless of the mix.


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## Jessiewessie99

Good_Karma said:


> One time a little kid told me he had a dog that was part fox. I was like, "Oh, that's neat...":rolleyes2:


How cute! A little girl called Molly a husky.lol. I get wolf comments all the time, but that doesn't mean he is a wolf. Go to a Wolf Sanctuary and talk to the people there.


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## Whiteshepherds

Greydusk said:


> Oh and he bought it from a lady in a Walmart parking lot...


LOL, of course he did...it was probably the blue light special...or is that KMart??


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## Greydusk

Whiteshepherds said:


> LOL, of course he did...it was probably the blue light special...or is that KMart??


I think that's KMart lol. The lady told him that they had to meet in the parking lot because she didn't want her cover blown on her super secret hybrid puppies. Naturally.


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## Jessiewessie99

Greydusk said:


> I think that's KMart lol. The lady told him that they had to meet in the parking lot because she didn't want her cover blown on her super secret hybrid puppies. Naturally.


:rofl:


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## Shavy

counter said:


> If I came across grumpy, well, I was, and I apologize. I had surgery on Tuesday and am still on heavy painkillers, so I probably took offense to what you were saying without meaning to, or even realizing that I was.
> 
> The reason I was getting grumpy was not because I think wolfdogs are "cool," but because, after so many people who claim to have knowledge of hybrids telling me that Beowulf is surely part wolf, came a bunch of others who also claim to have wolf knowledge telling me that he is not wolf at all. It was a bit confusing. I was convinced that he has some part wolf in him (and I still think he does, and am continuing my research until I can prove otherwise), and to be told that he doesn't was getting frustrating. I can relate it to the fact that people have approached me while I was walking Nara and they've told me that she wasn't a purebred GSD. I've also had people tell me that Paw Paw was a malamute and not a husky. Granted, I have pedigrees on them, so as long as I know the truth, that's all that matters.
> 
> Also, like I mentioned before, I was not on Craigslist looking for wolves or hybrids. I had actually searched for "husky" and Beowulf came up saying he was a wolf/malamute/husky. If his ad didn't mention "wolf' at all, he'd still be here with me, hybrid or not. Since rescuing him, people have honestly approached asking about him, and when I kept it hush/hush about the supposed "wolf" in him, just saying he's a malamute/husky mix, these people have pointed out that he MUST also be part wolf, as they have raised hybrids (possibly just dogs like you're saying though). So it's almost been forced on me that he's a wolf, even when I try to avoid mentioning it. So strange! Haha.
> 
> But I'm not upset at all if he's not part wolf. I just want to know exactly what he is, wolf or dog. He's my mutt, and I love him. I'd like to research those barbed teeth of his a little more, to see if that's a wolf attribute or if some dogs have them too. I'm going to rule out every possibility that he's a wolf before claiming that he's just a dog, since I'm finding things about him that my other 2 dogs don't have nor have experienced.
> 
> I'm feeling high from painkillers right now, so I'd better end since I think I'm going off on tangents and might not be making any sense. I'm going to take Paw Paw and Beowulf for a walk with my 2 daughters now. I took Nara for a walk a few hours ago. I'll write more tonight to better explain my thoughts on what we're discussing.


I'm glad you didn't take my comments offensively or personally. Refuah shleimah (speedy recovery!).


----------



## Gwenhwyfair

counter said:


> <snipped> But I'm not upset at all if he's not part wolf. I just want to know exactly what he is, wolf or dog. He's my mutt, and I love him. I'd like to research those barbed teeth of his a little more, to see if that's a wolf attribute or if some dogs have them too. I'm going to rule out every possibility that he's a wolf before claiming that he's just a dog, since I'm finding things about him that my other 2 dogs don't have nor have experienced.
> 
> <snipped>


There's a lot of really interesting info about wolf-dog hybrids on the net. Apparently there are some conservation concerns as such tests have been conducted on animals suspected to be wolves or wolf hybrids. I know I mentioned this before, but at the end of the day if you really want to know you're going to have to do a DNA test for proof postive. There is a lab, I believe in CA, which tests for wolf, dog, wolf-dog hybrid. That would be the most definitive method.

Also you can check for breed IDs in his DNA (which don't look for wolf DNA). DNA kits for dogs are available at most vets and online. If he comes up say, 50% GSD and 50% (to pick a number) is _unknown_....deductive reasoning could come into play. If 50% or 25% of his genetic DNA is unknown, the possiblity remains, is it wolf? If the DNA test comes back 50% GSD 50% malamute (for example) you can then be fairly certain he's not got any wolf in him. If the door is still open to the possiblity of wolf ancestory then perhaps have a wildlife expert, wildlife veterinarian examine him. That's one of way narrowing it down without going through specialized testing.

Here's an interesting article about how the genetic testing works for wolf hybrids, I hope it helps in your research:

Heredity - Combined use of maternal, paternal and bi-parental genetic markers for the identification of wolf-dog hybrids


I've run into wolf-hybrid claims before and my friend who bred and showed huskies is familiar with the claims....and the reality is they are pretty rare. He is a beautiful boy and I wish you the best of luck with him.


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## Powell

Jgk2383 said:


> If you contact Full Moon Farm out in NC Nancy will get back to you and answer your questions. Shes been dealing with Wolf dogs for a very long time. Send her a picture of your pup and ask her what she thinks.
> 
> [email protected]


That address will go to Mish. 

I volunteer there and sent you a private message with 2 yahoo lists I am on. 

Email me, I don't get on here as much as I used to, and I will give you Nancy's email address. 

Powell


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## Powell

There are tests for wolf content, but they are quite expensive, and are not available to the public. Some of those other tests that claim they do test for wolf.... well they will tell you what you want to hear. Not reliable at all. 

Powell


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## Jgk2383

Powell I just talked with Nancy she saw this and replied -

"Looks like a little Husky, a little Mal, and a little GSD thrown into a blender that created a dilute red mutt.

Ears are oversized, and too pointed. White toenails. Head shape is far too round. Red in coat could be husky or mal, but the dilute red throws the light or gold eyes."

So there you have it from a very knowing source


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## MaggieRoseLee

Jgk2383 said:


> Powell I just talked with Nancy she saw this and replied -
> 
> "Looks like a little Husky, a little Mal, and a little GSD thrown into a blender that created a dilute red mutt.
> 
> Ears are oversized, and too pointed. White toenails. Head shape is far too round. Red in coat could be husky or mal, but the dilute red throws the light or gold eyes."
> 
> So there you have it from a very knowing source


Far as I'm concerned that's GREAT news for the pup and owner. I wouldn't ever have a wolf hybrid in my home as a pet. They seem to be great for about the first 2 years and then it can be a mess. And it's ALWAYS the hybrid who will ultimately lose in this situation (though if a family member gets injured while they 'learn' what they've got it's a shame).


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## Jessiewessie99

The closest I would ever get to a wolf dog or wolf is at Sanctuaries and you can always sponsor one.


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## WolfCrest

Woohoo I'm late to the party again oh well... Anyways Congrats on the new puppy. I have a 1/4 wolf 1/4 husky 1/2 German Shepherd mix myself she never really had super long legs but she did have huge paws. She is 11 months old right now and she seems to have begun to grow into everything finally. You couldnt ask for a sweeter dog. She is amazing. 

And because it's an unwritten rule here is her pic lol.


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## Jessiewessie99

WolfCrest said:


> Woohoo I'm late to the party again oh well... Anyways Congrats on the new puppy. I have a 1/4 wolf 1/4 husky 1/2 German Shepherd mix myself she never really had super long legs but she did have huge paws. She is 11 months old right now and she seems to have begun to grow into everything finally. You couldnt ask for a sweeter dog. She is amazing.
> 
> And because it's an unwritten rule here is her pic lol.


Looks like a dog that was at my shelter recently.


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## WolfCrest

Oh really? Did he/she get adopted? I've had her since she was about 7 weeks old.


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## Jessiewessie99

WolfCrest said:


> Oh really? Did he/she get adopted? I've had her since she was about 7 weeks old.


He got adopted. My shelter sends wolf dogs to wolf dog/wolf sanctuaries.He had no wolf in him at all.Just looked like it. I believe wolf dogs are illegal to keep in California, I believe first generation and pure wolves are illegal to own, and you need a permit to own one.


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## WolfCrest

yeah she is an F2 I believe. And I have checked with my local stuff and she is covered as long as she is licensed and has up to date medical and vaccine records. Rabies is a big reason that they don't really allow the owning of wolves and wolfdogs or even coydogs for that matter. There have been concerns that the rabies vaccines won't work on them correctly.


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## KZoppa

like i said.... i'd love to have a hybrid but i'd much rather run a sanctuary for wolves and a big cat rescue as well. All beautiful animals but until i go to college for zoology (not in my near future) and my kids are grown (again, not the neat future) it wont happen. Either way, the OP's pup is going to be a very handsome boy no matter what he's mixed with. Best of luck OP!!!


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## Jessiewessie99

Thats because they don't.


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## WolfCrest

I know Tora's rabies shot worked. She has high titers in her blood, and I will continue to have her tested and if I find out I need to give her the rabies shot every year instead of every three thats okay by me I love my girl.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Powell said:


> There are tests for wolf content, but they are quite expensive, and are not available to the public. Some of those other tests that claim they do test for wolf.... well they will tell you what you want to hear. Not reliable at all.
> 
> Powell


I was wondering if that was the case....most of the tests are being run by state DNRs. I didn't think it would be cheap....BUT if the OP really really wants to know beyond a shadow of a doubt a hands on objective expert analysis or definative DNA test are the only sure ways.

Everything else is speculative. 

Below is NOT directed at the OP but a little bit of venting.

(soapbox)
In general I don't get this facsination people have with owning wild life or wild life hybrids. They end up in trouble, dead or in sanctuaries (which require funding, volunteers and support) because the animal becomes too much to handle. I've heard of cases when the animal becomes too aggressive or hard to handle it's mistreated, or dumped. There was and is a problem with crossing of domestic cats and wild cats too (felid hybrids). There's a reason our ancestors selectively bred animals for thousands of years to produce domestic strains. We've got enough of our domestic dogs homeless, abused and dying in shelters every day..........(/soapbox)


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## AgileGSD

WolfCrest said:


> Woohoo I'm late to the party again oh well... Anyways Congrats on the new puppy. I have a 1/4 wolf 1/4 husky 1/2 German Shepherd mix myself she never really had super long legs but she did have huge paws. She is 11 months old right now and she seems to have begun to grow into everything finally. You couldnt ask for a sweeter dog. She is amazing.
> 
> And because it's an unwritten rule here is her pic lol.


 Did you get her from a breeder? She looks very much like a GSD mix.


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## BowWowMeow

WolfCrest said:


> I know Tora's rabies shot worked. She has high titers in her blood, and I will continue to have her tested and if I find out I need to give her the rabies shot every year instead of every three thats okay by me I love my girl.


Do not give your dog a rabies shot every year as that will most likely cause her to have serious health problems. 

The issue with wolf dogs and rabies is that the rabies vaccine hasn't been proven to work in wolves so if your wolf dog bites someone then she will likely have to be euthanized. Same goes for people who just do titers...and I am one of those. 

How did you find out your dog is part wolf? In your previous posts you are asking people what kind of mix they think she is.


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## Miikkas mom

I ran across this on the local craigslist..... 

Free to a great home, he is german shepherd,wolf hibrid. We rescued from the pound but we are not home enough to give him the right attention. For pics call or text 505-270-9850 



it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 1958087643

free shepard to good home

I am not interested but if anyone wants me to go check him out, let me know.


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## WolfCrest

I was asking what people thought she looked like. I have known she had wolf in her. The people I got her from had both parents and had gotten the mother from a wolfdog breeder. They got her as an adult and had been told she was spayed which she clearly wasnt but she is now. All of this is according to the people I got her from of course. I believe in that thread I even said she had wolf in her. 

And what I meant by what you qouted is if I were told by whoever runs things to do that I would. I know that it isnt a good idea. I was just saying. She gets her shots on a normal basis like every other dog. The titer were only done because my vet was curious so he sent in for them. 

Agile- It was an accidental litter. She is half GSD.


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## JazzNScout

Shavy said:


> Counter, I was too lazy to quote you, but your constant insistence throughout the thread that your dog is a "wolfdog" is why I said that you seem to think it's "cool". *If you didn't, you would be listening to people who said that he didn't have wolfish traits, or contacting people who actually work with wolfdogs to confirm his content (or more likely, lack thereof). "Doing research" on your own and speaking to people who have owned "wolfdogs" that most likely also were only dogs seems to me an exercise in self-delusion (sorry if that sounds harsh).*
> 
> Again, I hope that you get a lot of enjoyment out of your new pup, and I'm glad he found his way into a home where he will be loved for years to come. He's a gorgeous puppy.


Really?! If the poster didn't think it was "cool," she would be listening to others who haven't seen the dog? Whoa. . . While I have received invaluable info from this forum, I would also have made some dreadful mistakes with my own dogs had I taken _all_ the info I got here as the Gospel truth. 
Did I misunderstand something here? If not: Wow, that "wanna be cool" comment is quite an assumption. 
We forget that an online forum provides such limited information not only from the dog owners but from people who haven't seen or who don't know our dogs -- and, really, who don't know us or our motivations. It's so easy to make assumptions based on a paragraph or two (or a few pictures) in here. 

I think it's smart for the poster to do her own research and speak to others. 

In reality, the way to tell what's in this dog is to get a DNA test done.

And whether or not the dog has wolf in him or not, _bless you_ for saving him!


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## Mac's Mom

JazzNScout said:


> Really?! If the poster didn't think it was "cool," she would be listening to others who haven't seen the dog? Whoa. . . While I have received invaluable info from this forum, I would also have made some dreadful mistakes with my own dogs had I taken _all_ the info I got here as the Gospel truth.
> Did I misunderstand something here? If not: Wow, that "wanna be cool" comment is quite an assumption.
> We forget that an online forum provides such limited information not only from the dog owners but from people who haven't seen or who don't know our dogs -- and, really, who don't know us or our motivations. It's so easy to make assumptions based on a paragraph or two (or a few pictures) in here.
> 
> I think it's smart for the poster to do her own research and speak to others.
> 
> In reality, the way to tell what's in this dog is to get a DNA test done.
> 
> And whether or not the dog has wolf in him or not, _bless you_ for saving him!


Well said.


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## Jessiewessie99

WolfCrest said:


> I was asking what people thought she looked like. I have known she had wolf in her. The people I got her from had both parents and had gotten the mother from a wolfdog breeder. They got her as an adult and had been told she was spayed which she clearly wasnt but she is now. All of this is according to the people I got her from of course. I believe in that thread I even said she had wolf in her.
> 
> And what I meant by what you qouted is if I were told by whoever runs things to do that I would. I know that it isnt a good idea. I was just saying. She gets her shots on a normal basis like every other dog. The titer were only done because my vet was curious so he sent in for them.
> 
> Agile- It was an accidental litter. She is half GSD.



I agree with Agile, your dog looks like a GSD Mix. Jus because someone says that the dog has wolf in them, doesn't mean that is true. She looks like she has a alot of GSD in her, no wolf.


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## scoobygert

I just came across this site and wanted to toss my two cents in. There are some interesting comments made her by people that have no experience, or are working with the hearsay of other people. I raised two wolf/malamutes and worked with rescued wolf mixes for many years. I agree that people looking for a dog are not looking for a wolf mix, but this blind fear them 'turning on' you is ridiculous. If they are raised and respected as what they are (they are not just dogs), they will be fine. The owner, however, must be smarter than the beast and work extensively to raise and train these fine animals. For a random shelter volunteer to malign the entire sub-species, and the people that love them, is unfounded and illogical. Moreover, for those who wonder who would want one of these animals, the answer lies in whatever makes you happy. We got ours because we knew the breeders, the father was an accidental cross-breed and they had wonderful pups. We researched and spoke with wolf workers, and all sorts of people with experience in the practice, and we had wonderfully huge and loving animals. They helped me raise my son and befriended all the children in the neighborhood. They protected me when people tried to break in to my home, and the defended me against a (poodle) that was trying to attack me. Do NOT judge them or me wihtout knowing what you are talking about. It is not even remotely helpful.
As for people who already have one and realize they bit off more than they can chew.. it might not be too late. You have to be the Alpha, and you have to let them do wolf things. Howl with them, let them gently mouth you, butt heads with them, chew on their faces. Train them to do the things you need them to do, and make sure they are not aggressive in any way. Do not try to beat them, it will not work, you have to yip loudly if they chew too hard, and you have to nip their ears if they do something wrong. Immediately. You also have to make sure they do not nip at you. It is harder than a regular dog, they need room to run and they do much better if you have a sibling of the opposite gender with them and they are neutered. If you really want to know how to do this thing, ask away, but do not pay attention to the people who base their opinions on fear, ignorance or plain prejudice.


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## Freestep

This thread is over two years old.


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## Wolfgeist

scoobygert said:


> I just came across this site and wanted to toss my two cents in. There are some interesting comments made her by people that have no experience, or are working with the hearsay of other people. I raised two wolf/malamutes and worked with rescued wolf mixes for many years. I agree that people looking for a dog are not looking for a wolf mix, but this blind fear them 'turning on' you is ridiculous. If they are raised and respected as what they are (they are not just dogs), they will be fine. The owner, however, must be smarter than the beast and work extensively to raise and train these fine animals. For a random shelter volunteer to malign the entire sub-species, and the people that love them, is unfounded and illogical. Moreover, for those who wonder who would want one of these animals, the answer lies in whatever makes you happy. We got ours because we knew the breeders, the father was an accidental cross-breed and they had wonderful pups. We researched and spoke with wolf workers, and all sorts of people with experience in the practice, and we had wonderfully huge and loving animals. They helped me raise my son and befriended all the children in the neighborhood. They protected me when people tried to break in to my home, and the defended me against a (poodle) that was trying to attack me. Do NOT judge them or me wihtout knowing what you are talking about. It is not even remotely helpful.
> As for people who already have one and realize they bit off more than they can chew.. it might not be too late. You have to be the Alpha, and you have to let them do wolf things. Howl with them, let them gently mouth you, butt heads with them, chew on their faces. Train them to do the things you need them to do, and make sure they are not aggressive in any way. Do not try to beat them, it will not work, you have to yip loudly if they chew too hard, and you have to nip their ears if they do something wrong. Immediately. You also have to make sure they do not nip at you. It is harder than a regular dog, they need room to run and they do much better if you have a sibling of the opposite gender with them and they are neutered. If you really want to know how to do this thing, ask away, but do not pay attention to the people who base their opinions on fear, ignorance or plain prejudice.


Uhg, old thread... now I have to comment...

As a former wolfdog rescuer and having worked with several wolfdogs, I can say that you can't always be "Alpha" if the wolfdog doesn't want you to be. I had to assist rehoming a wolfdog that kept targeting the husband of the family, regardless of going to training classes, doing NILIF, "dominating" the wolfdog, the wolfdog did not agree that the husband was meant to be dominant over him. This wolfdog ended up cornering the husband in the kitchen and leaving several ugly scars on his shoulder and back. 

I'm sure you haven't heard of the story of the woman who cared for a pack of rescued wolves and wolfdogs getting killed by a dominant wolf one day.

Regardless of how cool they are, how cool it is to own one, you cannot dictate how a wild animal (the wolf) wants to act and which rank they want to hold. It's a nice fairytale to think that we can own wild animals and they will submit to us if we really, really want them too - but their laws are different then ours.

They have genetics that are wild and older than you or I, never forget that.


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## mehpenn

Awwww man. I was hoping we'd gotten a two year update on the pup the thread was started about.


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## blackshep

#1 "breed" to maul children. And who's fault is it really?


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## volcano

Well, when I was a 3rd grader my mom got a timberwolf/malamute for protection, her name was Cinnamon. She was a great dog, we didnt do much if anythig for training but one issue was the pulling, and if she got off she bolted but returned home. Then she ate my guinea pig, tore the top off the tank. Next was the parakeet ripped off the cieling. And that neigbors dominant small breed didnt last long.


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## blackshep

The problem too is that some people have wolf hybrids who's characteristics take more after the dog. Then they go around telling everyone who great their hybrid is, when the reality is that there's no consistency to how much wolf or how much dog they take after.

They are also notoriously HORRIBLE to housebreak and very difficult to train. Escape artists and very destructive. 

No thanks, not for me.


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## Lilie

Freestep said:


> This thread is over two years old.


Ah, but the information provided is from yet another 'expert'.


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## sitstay

blackshep said:


> The problem too is that some people have wolf hybrids who's characteristics take more after the dog. Then they go around telling everyone who great their hybrid is, when the reality is that there's no consistency to how much wolf or how much dog they take after.
> 
> They are also notoriously HORRIBLE to housebreak and very difficult to train. Escape artists and very destructive.
> 
> No thanks, not for me.


Agree with the above. 

It has been my experience that 98% of all the supposed hybrids out there are not wolf dogs at all. So the stories about the wolf dogs that someone grew up with that where so wonderful are actually stories about mixes of domestic dog breeds. Any dog with Husky or Malamute in it automatically becomes a wolf hybrid. There are a couple of members here that swear they have hybrids, but it is highly unlikely that they do. 

That is the huge disservice these people do. They claim that their mix is a wolf dog, and it never destroyed anything (and they lived in an apartment!). It nursed their sick kitten back to health (never once tried to eat it). It never once escaped from the yard (despite only having a 4 foot fence).

Then people read this stuff, believe that the anecdotes are about real hybrids and they either purchase a real hybrid and end up way over their heads, or the end up purchasing a domestic dog mix and help perpetuate the myth of the regal, easy to live with hybrid that howled at the moon but had a CGC and never once caused anyone a moments worth of trouble or effort.

I wonder how many true hybrids end up euthanized because of it? I live in the Northwest, where hybrids are often legal. Most shelters do not adopt them out if they even suspect the animal is a hybrid. Sanctuaries are full to bursting, so they can't provide a place for these animals. They end up dead in the local land fill. 
Sheilah
Sheilah


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