# Opinions



## abood

as many have told me this is a sable gsd , i want to correct that and ask if shes a belgian tervuren .
then she is 7 months and i think close to have her first heat , should i think about it now or later , and i want to breed her for motherhood reasons.
a question about babies , does she take care of everything about them or do i have to help in anything , coz i read that if i have the mother i dont have to do a thing , ???


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## JakodaCD OA

it's a myth that you have to breed a dog for "motherhood reasons"..

She doesn't looke like a purebred gsd nor a purebred terv either. Maybe a mix of both?

Right now, at this age, she is WAY to young to even think about 'breeding' her. I highly suggest you read thru some of the posts on this board about breeding and breeding nightmares..

Some dogs can actually die giving birth, some do it on their own, others need help, you won't know until it actually happens..Are you willing to risk losing your dog during whelping if you bred her?

Again, I suggest you read some of the breeding topics on this board, and read some of the heartbreaking stories of breedings gone wrong.

She's very cute by the way, but again looks like a mix to me


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## Emoore

I don't think she is a German Shepherd or a Tervuren. I think she is a mixed breed dog. Please don't breed her. 

That idea that "if I have the mother I don't have to do a thing" is a lie. Go read some of Selzer's posts about having to help her dogs deliver the puppies, having puppies die, having mother dogs nearly die, spending thousands of dollars at the vet trying to save their lives when they have problems with birthing. Or she could just kill and eat them the way my mother in law's dog did with her puppies.


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## chelle

abood said:


> ....and i want to breed her for motherhood reasons.


Maybe there is a problem with translation here, but "motherhood reasons?" What does that mean, exactly? :nono:


opcorn:


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## Anastasia

chelle said:


> Maybe there is a problem with translation here, but "motherhood reasons?" What does that mean, exactly? :nono:
> 
> 
> opcorn:


I'm curious about this too what do you mean Motherhood reasons? I'm not familiar with that term.


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## selzer

abood said:


> as many have told me this is a sable gsd , i want to correct that and ask if shes a belgian tervuren .
> then she is 7 months and i think close to have her first heat , should i think about it now or later , and i want to breed her for motherhood reasons.
> *a question about babies , does she take care of everything about them or do i have to help in anything , coz i read that if i have the mother i dont have to do a thing* , ???


:spittingcoffee: Ah hah hah hah hah, ha ha hah hah :rofl: OMG, ha hah ha 

I am sorry, but :rofl:

that is about the funniest thing I have ever read. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/thinking-about-becoming-breeder/171149-whelping-experience.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...lping-question-58-days-post-conception-2.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/thinking-about-becoming-breeder/149422-so-you-want-breeder.html

ETA: Please do not just get mad, but read some of these real whelping experiences.


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## spiritsmom

She looks like a mixed breed so really what would be the point in breeding her?


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## msvette2u

This person lives in Jordan/Middle east, remember, so please keep that in mind when responding. The US has a huge pet overpopulation problem, maybe Jordan does not. 
That said, she is a mixed breed and unless you know 6-8 people who want puppies, you shouldn't breed her.
Even if you do - please wait until she's older, 2yrs. of age is best. And even then, you can run into a lot of complications including the death of your beloved pet.
If you have veterinarians (animal doctors) who spay/de-sex/neuter there, you would be doing her a huge favor by just spaying her now.


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## Geeheim

> a question about babies , does she take care of everything about them or do i have to help in anything , coz i read that if i have the mother i dont have to do a thing , ???


Umm okay?!?! Sorry to be blunt but, just from reading that it sounds like you have no business breeding because you obviously don't know anything about it. Do the dog a favor and spay her.


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## nitemares

In the middle east breeding is the norm. most PB dogs end up in homes, no one throws away their pb dog. the problem is with mixed breeds. Like for example someone like our friend here from Jordan, since we told him she is mixed, he would either look for someone to buy her or maybe throw her on the street. Not saying he would, but a typical middle eastern mind would. it's a shame.
People all over the middle east are trying to raise awareness about the importance of spaying and neutering. problem is most Muslims think its a sin to change God's creation. We have to keep reminding them that Gods also ordered to be merciful to animals and if an animal has a high probability to end up on the street that's not merciful at all. Some listen some don't, at least in Egypt it's getting much much better. most people would neuter their mixed cats and dogs but not their pb, because there is a market for PBs and rarely do you get a purebred dog at the shelter. The only times we do is when ppl can't afford vet bills due to accidents or unfortunately, Europeans moving back to their countries and abandoning their dogs.


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## cliffson1

@MSvette2u....I really appreciate the intelligent comment you made about diferences in cultures and norms.....many people think the way things should be done revolve around them. I too think that the OP should find a vet or breeder of GS in his/her country and talk to them.


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## Emoore

msvette2u said:


> This person lives in Jordan/Middle east, remember, so please keep that in mind when responding.


But the OP didn't ask a question about cultural norms, whether there was a market for puppies, requirements for breeding, etc. He asked a question about biology. Puppies get stuck, moms get into serious trouble, puppies die, moms die in the Middle East as well as in the U.S. The idea that if you have the mother you're guaranteed to not have to do anything isn't true just because the person is in another country.


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## cliffson1

Then send them to a vet or breeder for biological answers instead of answers that may or may not have revelance considering the resources where the person resides. Its really very simple....would stop a lot of non relevant or misinformed information being passed from people who may or May not be really knowledgable.


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## cliffson1

The last post isn't directed at anyone, but rather is trying to get people to help people find reliable help where they reside. We usually don't have enough info to give opinions as close to the situation as a person in the area they reside.


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## selzer

cliffson1 said:


> The last post isn't directed at anyone, but rather is trying to get people to help people find reliable help where they reside. We usually don't have enough info to give opinions as close to the situation as a person in the area they reside.


If we just answer his questions about what the dog looks like, and whether he needs to do anything with regards to whelping and raising the litter, we do not need to worry about where he is from. And, the only reason one needs information from their general location would be the supply/demand for dogs in his area, which he knows better than the majority of the people on here as we don't have many members from Jordan. 

It is possible that your bitch will whelp naturally without any assistance from you, and in the first three weeks, there is little you need to do save feed the bitch good food and change the bedding daily and as the litter gets messier, more frequently. 

But it is the height if irresponsibility to expect everything to be hunky dory and not have some plan in place if the bitch needs a c-section, and some knowledge on what to do and what not to do in the event that a puppy is stuck, or the bitch does not produce a puppy, how to get puppies going, what materials to have on hand, what climate you should have the area at, cutting and tying the umbilical cord if necessary, and instructions on how to care for orphan pups, how to know that your bitch and pups are doing well, etc. 

Get a good book, read it through -- the sections on whelping, stock the things you will need and might need, and keep the book to refer to in the process. 

I think your pup is cute as a bug, I agree with not breeding her as her heritage is unknown, but if you do, she should be a minimum of 18 months old before breeding and preferably two years old. If she is not too young, or too old, in excellent physical shape, then your chances of having the least number of problems go up. 

Hopefully there is a vet near enough by that you can go to if you run into serious problems.

This book is one that I had on hand and is pretty good:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Breeding-Litter-Complete-Postnatal-reference/dp/0876054149[/ame]


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## abood

before jumping into conclusions , i want to breed her and keep all the babies , and for some of you who think i dont take good care , well i walk her twice a day , feed her taste of the wild , change her water 3 times of the day , provide her with daily training .
and for other the " middle eastern mind " is something i dont have , as am more open to foreign cultures even rgarding to animals , as i live in a neighbourhood where its 90% foreigners .
and i have read all about the whelping stuff and so on .. but i just wanted to expand my knoweldge about some prefernces that ive read on the net , and fyi i work with a vet for almst 6 months now , its not a shame to ask - what i thought - experienced people .

and i dont care if shes a mix , but shes my mix and i take good care of her , i didnt ask for a lecture but rather just a simple answer .

thx for anyone who answered me


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## Emoore

So if she has 13 or 14 puppies, you want to keep them all? That's awesome.


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## abood

and oo regarding nitemares comment about selling her or ditching her , i would rather kill myself than getting her away of me .
you guys are so ignorant , you think if my dog isnt pure bred i will just throw it away , because am middle eastern minded :/
i bet you to find anyone who love his dog more than i do , if a day passes and shes not beside i will litterally be depressed and wont know what to do , so please dont judge a book by its cover.

well yh why not , i might give 3 or 4 for adoption for people i know as to keep seeing them , but as long as the mother is with me i want her to see her babies on almost daily .


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## Emoore

abood said:


> i bet you to find anyone who love his dog more than i do , if a day passes and shes not beside i will litterally be depressed and wont know what to do , so please dont judge a book by its cover.


If you love your dog that much, you might want to reconsider breeding her. Females can and do die giving birth. I have nothing but respect for good breeders, but everyone who breeds does have to come to terms with the fact that their dog can die having her puppies.


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## k_sep

abood said:


> and oo regarding nitemares comment about selling her or ditching her , i would rather kill myself than getting her away of me .
> you guys are so ignorant , you think if my dog isnt pure bred i will just throw it away , because am middle eastern minded :/
> i bet you to find anyone who love his dog more than i do , if a day passes and shes not beside i will litterally be depressed and wont know what to do , so please dont judge a book by its cover.
> 
> well yh why not , i might give 3 or 4 for adoption for people i know as to keep seeing them , but as long as the mother is with me i want her to see her babies on almost daily .


No offense intended, but I thought you had several dogs? I remember one you bought, another you found on a farm (or your farm?), and another seemed to be a white GSD mix. On top of the those three puppies, I thought you had a few other dogs (from past posts you made). What happened to them?


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## abood

Am not a BREEDER , i just believe dogs deserve a chance to see their babies just like humans :/ 
Am asking to avoid anything , but ill just wait till her third heat to consider breeding her as to make sure everything is okai , and i have the vet approval that shes in great condition which allows me to breed her .


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## abood

k_sep said:


> No offense intended, but I thought you had several dogs? I remember one you bought, another you found on a farm (or your farm?), and another seemed to be a white GSD mix. On top of the those three puppies, I thought you had a few other dogs (from past posts you made). What happened to them?


 this is the same dog as the first that i asked on how to stop her from pulling , and the other one , the white gsd mix , i had to put it in the farm , as the government municipility was going to shoot it because he barked too much :/ and i dont want that to happen and the the one that i found in the farm , i found a great home for him , with my french neighbours  i can keep checking on him this way .

but now this is my only puppy , she lives indoors with me and thats all i want  ( well besides her babies )


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## k_sep

abood said:


> this is the same dog as the first that i asked on how to stop her from pulling , and the other one , the white gsd mix , i had to put it in the farm , as the government municipility was going to shoot it because he barked too much :/ and i dont want that to happen and the the one that i found in the farm , i found a great home for him , with my french neighbours  i can keep checking on him this way .
> 
> but now this is my only puppy , she lives indoors with me and thats all i want  ( well besides her babies )


Well, if you're completely set on breeding her, please at least wait until she's two years old. It's for HER safety to wait. I still don't get the "motherhood" reasons though. :-/ Plus, do you have an experience taking care of multiple puppies at once? It will be a lot of work; you should rethink this, at least. (AT least give it a lot of thought while you wait for your dog to be mature enough to have puppies).

Edit: "put it in the farm"? What does that mean?


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## abood

k_sep said:


> Well, if you're completely set on breeding her, please at least wait until she's two years old. It's for HER safety to wait. I still don't get the "motherhood" reasons though. :-/ Plus, do you have an experience taking care of multiple puppies at once? It will be a lot of work; you should rethink this, at least. (AT least give it a lot of thought while you wait for your dog to be mature enough to have puppies).
> 
> Edit: "put it in the farm"? What does that mean?


yup as i said ill wait till her third heat to even consider it , its like a human mother deserve to have child and see it and raise , in my opinion a dog mother also deserves to have babies , hope i clarified my self and thanks 

and yup as i have a 5 by 5 metres room , thats basically empty , we use it to put woods and its in hand at anytime , i can empty it and i have a a room for my dog and her puppies 

as for the white mix in the farm , hes perfectly healthy i provide with bags of food for the worker their to feed him , also taste of the wild which i hope is good enough for your satisfactions  and btw its a closed farm so he cant escape or someone to snatch him .


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## Whiteshepherds

She's a pretty girl, very unique looking. If you breed her do you already have a dog picked out that you'd like to breed her to? (just curious)


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## nitemares

abood said:


> and oo regarding nitemares comment about selling her or ditching her , i would rather kill myself than getting her away of me .
> you guys are so ignorant , you think if my dog isnt pure bred i will just throw it away , because am middle eastern minded :/


Abood Really?? Read my message well, I meant ppl in general in the middle East like me and you. not specifically "you". 
I am also Middle Eastern, but I will not deny the fact that what i described is exactly what happens. I wouldn't do it, you wouldn't do it, but the other 98% will.


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## CookieTN

I don't think dogs harbor the same sentimental feelings for wanting to experience pregnancy, birthing, and raising kids like humans do, but I'm not going to argue about it.

Just, if you are going to breed her, please do read up on it as much as you possibly can, and wait until she is at least two years old. This is a pretty good book: BARNES & NOBLE | Breeding a Litter: The Complete Book of Prenatal and Postnatal Care by Beth J. Finder Harris | Hardcover
I'm not sure if it's available in your country or not, but if you can also look into having her checked for hip dysplasia, PRA, and the other genetic health problems that can be passed onto offspring.

You do sound like you care about your dogs, it's just that breeding is a touchy subjected on dog enthusiast forums. I personally do not recommend breeding unless it's to provide more healthy, bodily-sound, and temperamentally-sound dogs, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I plan to become a breeder one day, when I have enough time and resources to finish my learning on the matter and find a good mentor.


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## selzer

CookieTN said:


> I don't think dogs harbor the same sentimental feelings for wanting to experience pregnancy, birthing, and raising kids like humans do, but I'm not going to argue about it.
> 
> Just, if you are going to breed her, please do read up on it as much as you possibly can, and wait until she is at least two years old. This is a pretty good book: BARNES & NOBLE | Breeding a Litter: The Complete Book of Prenatal and Postnatal Care by Beth J. Finder Harris | Hardcover
> I'm not sure if it's available in your country or not, but if you can also look into having her checked for hip dysplasia, PRA, and the other genetic health problems that can be passed onto offspring.
> 
> You do sound like you care about your dogs, it's just that breeding is a touchy subjected on dog enthusiast forums. I personally do not recommend breeding unless it's to provide more healthy, bodily-sound, and temperamentally-sound dogs, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I plan to become a breeder one day, when I have enough time and resources to finish my learning on the matter and find a good mentor.


I agree, it is certainly not the same. In some ways, it can be stronger and deeper. Occasionally, I have a bitch who has had puppies in the other part of the room when I have another having puppies. When the bitch who is not the dam hears the puppies, they can be almost frantic. They want to get in there and clean them and nurse them. It is strong and deep. Other dams are not as mothering I am sure, I just have not run into them yet. 

They do not have the thought processes to think, "if I never have children, I will miss out in life, I will not be whole", or whatever else we do to torment ourselves as our biological clocks tick away. But the desire to breed in females is often as strong as that in males, and the desire to nurture babies, whether puppies or kittens or even tiger cubs, there is nothing quite like a female shepherd. 

That in itself is not a good reason to breed. I mean, when you figure, average litter size being seven and 50/50 male/female ratios, if every bitch born is bred just once, ya figure 1/2 the dogs out there have 7 dogs, what will _that_ do to dog-populations? 

If you figure this on an individual basis, just you. You have a bitch and want her to experience motherhood, and you will keep all her babies. Let's say she has seven, and to be reasonable, let's say three girls and four boys. Will each of your girl pups then have to experience motherhood? will you keep all 21 of those babies? If ten of those also have to experience motherhood, will you keep those 70 babies? and if 35 of those need to experience motherhood, will you go ahead and keep those 245? Giving your pup two years and each of their pups two years to grow up some before breeding, in eight short years, you can be in a world of dog poop with 245 dogs and a serious hoarding situation. 

Keeping all the puppies, and letting females have just one litter, this is just not a good plan in the US or in the Middle East.


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## cliffson1

Abood, if you are going to breed her, please consult your vet and have her checked thoroughly before you breed her. Otherwise, good luck!


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## Freestep

abood said:


> its like a human mother deserve to have child and see it and raise , in my opinion a dog mother also deserves to have babies ,


Dogs are not humans. They do not lie around thinking "Gee I wish I had babies." They live in the moment and cannot see into the future, or want something they do not know exists. Having a litter does not offer any benefits to a female dog; in fact, they can die from a difficult pregnancy or delivery. If you love your dog as much as you say, why not stay on the safe side and have her spayed? 

If you really want to keep all the puppies, why not just rescue a dozen stray dogs instead? You'll probably be saving their lives, as well as preserving the life of your own beloved dog.


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## chelle

abood said:


> ....its like a human mother deserve to have child and see it and raise , in my opinion a dog mother also deserves to have babies.....


Everyone has been so civil on this thread, good job, everyone. Now I'll be the grump and say....

The statement above is *absolutely ludicrous*.

This is about YOU and not about what the dog "wants." A dog is not a human and has no "desires" about having children. 

This has now crossed over into the land of the completely stupid.

Hope you won't have to send the pups to the "farm."


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## Cassidy's Mom

abood said:


> this is the same dog as the first that i asked on how to stop her from pulling , and the other one , the white gsd mix , i had to put it in the farm , as the government municipility was going to shoot it because he barked too much :/ and i dont want that to happen and the the one that i found in the farm , i found a great home for him , with my french neighbours  i can keep checking on him this way .
> 
> but now this is my only puppy , she lives indoors with me and thats all i want  ( well besides her babies )


She could have a litter as small as 5 or 6 puppies or as many as 10 or 12. That one puppy you have now is suddenly going to be a big pack of dogs. Are really thinking about the reality of caring for as many as a dozen or more dogs? Indoors, with you - is your house that big? How will you keep them from barking and bothering your neighbors and having to be sent off to live on a farm, or worse, shot by the government? Unless you're planning on spaying and neutering them all how do you plan to keep them from breeding with each other and producing even more puppies? Maybe you've thought this through and have it all worked out, but if you haven't, please consider the difficulties ahead of you if you decide to breed her. 

And I have to reiterate what others have already said - dogs are not people. She is not yearning to have babies, and if she is never bred she will not miss the experience. Dogs do not miss what they have never known, they live in the moment. I'm sure my dogs would love it if we lived in the country on acres of land where they could run around all day instead of in a house with a small fenced yard, but they don't lay around thinking about how great it would be. They've never known that kind of life, so they can't imagine it and miss it. They're happy with the life they have because it's what they know.


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## abood

Its not stupidity , its considering a dog more like humane than a dog .
after that said i think am gonna spay her , called the HCAW and ill wait after her first heat is done .

and concerning the "farm" it was either that or the dog put down to sleep , enlighten me with what you would do if that happened to you.


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## chelle

abood said:


> ....the white gsd mix , i had to put it in the farm , as the government municipility was going to shoot it because he barked too much...





abood said:


> ...as for the white mix in the farm , hes perfectly healthy i provide with bags of food for the worker their to feed him...





abood said:


> ...and concerning the "farm" it was either that or the dog put down to sleep , enlighten me with what you would do if that happened to you.


Well, sir, since you asked.....

I wouldn't have allowed the barking problem to BECOME a problem to the extent that my choices were it being shot or being sent out to "the farm."

I'm glad he's perfectly healthy. You say you provide food, that's great. The worker gives him the food, great. How about any other social life for this dog? Just free to roam alone on the farm and have a worker feed him? Ok. So you make it sound as though the dog lives alone without human interaction on a farm. Perhaps better than death, but how are you satisfied with that? What if the pups bark too much?


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## k_sep

chelle said:


> What if the pups bark too much?


Another good point. You couldn't control the one dog, but you expect that you'll be able to train, raise, and keep all the puppies that your dog has. You're what? Eighteen years old? You're not going to be able to train and raise all those puppies when you couldn't even do that for the white dog you put on the farm.


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## marshies

abood said:


> Its not stupidity , its considering a dog more like humane than a dog .
> after that said i think am gonna spay her , called the HCAW and ill wait after her first heat is done .
> 
> and concerning the "farm" it was either that or the dog put down to sleep , enlighten me with what you would do if that happened to you.


It's great that you can see and understand the other side of the view, and make the decision to spay her. 

To everyone else posting: In a lot of cultures, dogs are considered differently than in North America. Finding a farm and making sure the dog is fed is more than what most would do in some countries. I feel the OP came on here, asked a question that raised a concern. We were able to successfully address that and persuade them to not breed. The rest of their life and how they mind their dogs, I personally think, is not something we can preach about.


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## cliffson1

@ marshies....Amen!


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## chelle

marshies said:


> It's great that you can see and understand the other side of the view, and make the decision to spay her.
> 
> To everyone else posting: In a lot of cultures, dogs are considered differently than in North America. Finding a farm and making sure the dog is fed is more than what most would do in some countries. I feel the OP came on here, asked a question that raised a concern. We were able to successfully address that and persuade them to not breed. The rest of their life and how they mind their dogs, I personally think, is not something we can preach about.


I'm sure you are right about how it is different in other countries, but how can we ever begin to change the way other cultures think, if we just say okay, it's all good? 

I only responded the last time because he did specifically address me and ask a question.


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## marshies

chelle said:


> I'm sure you are right about how it is different in other countries, but how can we ever begin to change the way other cultures think, if we just say okay, it's all good?
> 
> I only responded the last time because he did specifically address me and ask a question.


I did see you responding to his question. My post wasn't specifically directed towards you, but to the many others that were posting, and the many others who will feel inclined to post afterwards.


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## k_sep

abood said:


> Its not stupidity , its considering a dog more like humane than a dog .
> after that said i think am gonna spay her , called the HCAW and ill wait after her first heat is done .
> 
> and concerning the "farm" it was either that or the dog put down to sleep , enlighten me with what you would do if that happened to you.


I also completely missed this post. I only noticed Chelle's new post, so didn't reed the OP's. That said, I'm glad that you decided to spay her.


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## robinhuerta

It is not our job to change how other "cultures" think.
Different cultures think differently...this is the way of the world.
We can offer our cultural opinions, but honestly...that is pretty much the extent of it.
JMO


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## chelle

robinhuerta said:


> It is not our job to change how other "cultures" think.
> Different cultures think differently...this is the way of the world.
> We can offer our cultural opinions, but honestly...that is pretty much the extent of it.
> JMO


No, not our job, perse, but there has to be a starting point. Also JMVHO. If one can change, one will attempt to pass it along... and someday, you will be better than where it started.


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## robinhuerta

The problem though....is everyone believes that "their" opinion or culture is correct.
Cultures are just another way of life & way of thought......we don't have to agree or understand them....just as they do not have to agree with (ours).

_Thats all I'm saying...._


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## chelle

robinhuerta said:


> The problem though....is everyone believes that "their" opinion or culture is correct.
> Cultures are just another way of life & way of thought......we don't have to agree or understand them....just as they do not have to agree with (ours).
> 
> _Thats all I'm saying...._


True enough, point taken.

I just wish dogs had a higher priority in so many areas of the world. Wish humans' attitudes about dogs were different. But heck we have those problems right here. Sigh.


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## Emoore

robinhuerta said:


> It is not our job to change how other "cultures" think.
> Different cultures think differently...this is the way of the world.
> We can offer our cultural opinions, but honestly...that is pretty much the extent of it.
> JMO


All I know is, neither one of these.. . . . . . .


abood said:


> i want to correct that and ask if shes a belgian tervuren .





abood said:


> does she take care of everything about them or do i have to help in anything , coz i read that if i have the mother i dont have to do a thing , ???


. . . . is a cultural opinion. They're yes-or-no, fact-based questions that have nothing to do with cultural sensitivity. 
No, she is not a Belgian Tervueren. Yes, if you have the mother you still might have to do some things. Maybe a lot of things.


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## robinhuerta

Emoore...I'm referring to (as a whole)....."animals are just animals" beliefs based on cultural & geographical theories/sensitivities....
Fact based questions are different....


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## msvette2u

robinhuerta said:


> Emoore...I'm referring to (as a whole)....."animals are just animals" beliefs based on cultural & geographical theories/sensitivities....
> Fact based questions are different....


I agree completely. In many Middle Eastern countries, dogs aren't even considered pets, they are "dirty" and thus, not worthy of being a pet.

I'm glad abood is here asking, and I agree, abood, it would probably be best for your girl (who is very pretty, btw, but most likely a mixed breed) would be to spay her and not let her get pregnant. 

It happens very quickly, you can't let her out of your sight for even a moment when she's in heat.


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## GSDElsa

What is wrong with the person finding a home for a dog? People, stop nitpicking. He's spaying the dog. Get over yoruselves.


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## nitemares

chelle said:


> Well, sir, since you asked.....
> 
> I wouldn't have allowed the barking problem to BECOME a problem to the extent that my choices were it being shot or being sent out to "the farm."
> 
> I'm glad he's perfectly healthy. You say you provide food, that's great. The worker gives him the food, great. How about any other social life for this dog? Just free to roam alone on the farm and have a worker feed him? Ok. So you make it sound as though the dog lives alone without human interaction on a farm. Perhaps better than death, but how are you satisfied with that? What if the pups bark too much?


Chelle before i continue this is not specifically towards you, but your post is an example.
I can understand all your sentiments as i feel the same way, but considering that i am first of all Middle Eastern, let me tell you that things around here are completely different. we do not have puppy classes in every mall. We barely even have pet supplies stores. training a dog is a luxury not the norm, so all training is basically done by the owner, who most probably have no idea what they're doing to begin with.
Providing food and shelter in this area is basically being a good dog owner. most do not even provide shelter, and think that dogs can live on the street so they don't need shelter. 
So educate but don't criticize, he is here to learn so don't scare him away, plz. I had very thick skin when i first signed up in 2005, so i stayed and learned. Give this guy a chance.


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## CookieTN

GSDElsa said:


> What is wrong with the person finding a home for a dog? People, stop nitpicking. He's spaying the dog. Get over yoruselves.


Seconded


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## JakodaCD OA

I don't blame him or think ill of him for finding the other dog a home, it's better than dumping him on the street

And I'm happy you've (OP) come to the decision to spay her. The biggest worrying factor for me if you bred her would be, what if she died during whelping, that would be devastating to you I"m sure.

She's a cutie, enjoy her


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## abood

I honestly got the training handeled as she is perfect and taught her tricks as rollover , stand on the wall, wave between the leg ..... 
considering a middle eastern as said they consider pets more as dirty or filthy animals, but i dont infact i think its cleaner than some humans:/

and really in jordan we DONT have puppy classes , although we have private trainers but its extremely expensive and most of them unproffessional.

quick update , today we offleashed my puppy and my friend 6 months husky , and the husky humped my puppy for about 10 seconds , dnt know if it was dominance or sexual or anything , is there a chance of something to happen here , if so how can i stop it as i dont want my puppy to die ... :/


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## abood

JakodaCD OA said:


> The biggest worrying factor for me if you bred her would be, what if she died during whelping, that would be devastating to you I"m sure.
> 
> She's a cutie, enjoy her


yup i wont allow her to die , not on my watch 
thanks


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## selzer

abood said:


> I honestly got the training handeled as she is perfect and taught her tricks as rollover , stand on the wall, wave between the leg .....
> considering a middle eastern as said they consider pets more as dirty or filthy animals, but i dont infact i think its cleaner than some humans:/
> 
> and really in jordan we DONT have puppy classes , although we have private trainers but its extremely expensive and most of them unproffessional.
> 
> quick update , today we offleashed my puppy and my friend 6 months husky , and the husky humped my puppy for about 10 seconds , d*nt know if it was dominance or sexual or anything , is there a chance of something to happen here , if so how can i stop it as i dont want my puppy to die ...* :/


Your puppy can only get pregnant if she is in heat. However, you can have a silent heat, though I have never had or heard of anyone I know having one. I think the young husky was just playing and showing his dominance. Nothing to worry about there. 

Normally your female will bleed for several days and may have some behavioral changes prior to being at the point where she is fertile.


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## JakodaCD OA

abood, a 6mth old male "may" be able to impregnate your puppy, (I forget how old she is),,so I would get her spayed as soon as you can. 

If any dogs tries to 'hump' her, don't allow it at all..)


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## chelle

nitemares said:


> Chelle before i continue this is not specifically towards you, but your post is an example. I can understand all your sentiments as i feel the same way, but considering that i am first of all Middle Eastern, let me tell you that things around here are completely different. we do not have puppy classes in every mall. We barely even have pet supplies stores. training a dog is a luxury not the norm, so all training is basically done by the owner, who most probably have no idea what they're doing to begin with. Providing food and shelter in this area is basically being a good dog owner. most do not even provide shelter, and think that dogs can live on the street so they don't need shelter. So educate but don't criticize, he is here to learn so don't scare him away, plz. I had very thick skin when i first signed up in 2005, so i stayed and learned. Give this guy a chance.


Good post, thank you. I do understand what you're explaining. The thing is, for the most part, this forum is frequented by Americans. Sure, there are plenty of countries and nationalities, etc represented, but mostly American. Therefore that's going to be the viewpoint that people will usually receive.

I don't think it does a foreign person any good if we just say, hey, this person is from the Middle East, they don't care much about their dogs there, let's just give them a free pass. Now, I don't mean it is necessary or the least bit helpful to be rude and perhaps I was... but Middle Eastern or not, I was surprised at the logic of "motherhood reasons" and bark or be shot. (Not trying to resurrect that conversation; just where I got sidetracked.) Some of the other statements just showed a lack of knowledge overall, foreign or not. Responding to that had nothing to do with being foreign. In the end, I only responded because I was asked a question.

I'm glad in this case the OP has decided to not breed. I almost didn't understand that he was saying that. 



GSDElsa said:


> What is wrong with the person finding a home for a dog? People, stop nitpicking. He's spaying the dog. Get over yoruselves.


 Grumpy!



abood said:


> ..quick update , today we offleashed my puppy and my friend 6 months husky , and the husky humped my puppy for about 10 seconds , dnt know if it was dominance or sexual or anything , is there a chance of something to happen here , if so how can i stop it as i dont want my puppy to die ... :/


I don't believe there are any sexual connotations unless your bitch is in heat. I wouldn't let the Husky hump your dog. Humpers are annoying and some dogs will bite when others try to hump. Shut the Husky down, it'll do the Husky a favor to learn good doggy behavior; humping is not good behavior.


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## chelle

And, let me just add, after wasting hours here tonight that I should've been spending elsewhere, (my bad!) that it is funny that everyone is so concerned about being so politically correct with foreign affairs --- but just look at some of the posts from JUST TONIGHT about our fellow homegrown Americans catching all kinds of flack! Why are they treated so harshly in comparison?


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## nitemares

It's more about not scaring the foreigners away so they can stay and learn than being politically correct.


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## abood

i dont think shes in heat , as another male husky was with us and didnt attempt to hump her , but this husky allways tries to hump her , theyr together since my puppy about 2,5 months and the husky 1,5 month the weird thing is he really always tries to hump her and we always scold him and say no but its like nothing said , and he always lick my puppy organs and my puppy just sits there unless i say something to motivate her like when i tell her , lexie get him she turn around and bounce on him roguhly  she once or twice humped him and he didnt do anything but it was for only 2 seconds but this husky will go for more than 2 seconds :/ , and oo after the husky humped her there was no blood , i dont know if dogs bleed after their first time do they ???
Guys am here to learn more and to be a rsponsible owner , not to hear political and cultural stuff blv me i can simply go to watch some news if i want so  please stick to the subject , its not about dogs anymore :/

And my puppy is about 7 months now .


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## abood

JakodaCD OA said:


> abood, a 6mth old male "may" be able to impregnate your puppy, (I forget how old she is),,so I would get her spayed as soon as you can.
> 
> If any dogs tries to 'hump' her, don't allow it at all..)


i wont allow it , but we offleashed them in a big dirt yard that we found , and they were pretty faraway so we had to run to get him off her :/


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## JakodaCD OA

I agree with abood, we all realize he's from a different country/culture, we don't have to turn this into a "political" anything)

abood, hey ya gotta do what ya gotta do,,I'd haul HIS butt off her, and keep a close eye on him, while it could very well be a dominating thing, it's "rude" dog behavior)


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## abood

hahaha but i actually allowed her to hump him so he is not dominanced over her , eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth  and he stayed while she humped him , but mine did it before i gave her a full training now she only plays and even introduce her self nicely  the coming close step by step and sniffing and lickingg part but the husky just rushes in , i read the only solution to humping if dominance is good training and if sexually mature neutering ??


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## JakodaCD OA

some dogs that are neutered will still hump another dog, not a sexual thing, but dominance thing,, Training is key,


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## chelle

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree with abood, we all realize he's from a different country/culture, we don't have to turn this into a "political" anything)


Couldn't agree more. I don't think anyone should get a "free pass" just because they're foreign or otherwise. Perhaps it should be taken into account, but the advice you'd give one person should be the same given to another. JMVHO.


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## abood

yup , i noticed this when i started training my puppy everyday for about 15 minutes 3 sessions , she really did turn around 180 degrees , shes polite with everyone but still jumps to greet and i actually love that dont want to fix it  and polite with other dogs yet barks at strangers if am not around , her only problem is i didnt trainher with distractions although she played fetch when there was another dog offleashed with her


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## msvette2u

nitemares said:


> It's more about not scaring the foreigners away so they can stay and learn than being politically correct.


To me, as long as the owner isn't being abusive to the pet (and there was no evidence of abuse here), then I have no issues and neither should anyone here.
Culturally, there's many different things going on we aren't even aware of.
For instance, "the farm" may be a very nice place, and people were bashing him for "getting rid of" the dog. 

There's situations in which a dog is not happy in a particular situation and he could have taken it to whatever passes for a "pound" in his region, but he chose to keep the dog in the family, apparently. Yet folks started jumping all over him. 
If you had instead tried to interpret what he was saying instead of having a knee jerk reaction, things would go much better.


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## abood

msvette2u said:


> To me, as long as the owner isn't being abusive to the pet (and there was no evidence of abuse here), then I have no issues and neither should anyone here.
> Culturally, there's many different things going on we aren't even aware of.
> For instance, "the farm" may be a very nice place, and people were bashing him for "getting rid of" the dog.
> 
> There's situations in which a dog is not happy in a particular situation and he could have taken it to whatever passes for a "pound" in his region, but he chose to keep the dog in the family, apparently. Yet folks started jumping all over him.
> If you had instead tried to interpret what he was saying instead of having a knee jerk reaction, things would go much better.


thank you , and the farm is nice for a dog , huge space to run and play freely with food and water supplied all the time , what could be better for a dog?? 

and i really dont like shelters or pounds , as i think they do abuse puppies - not all ofcourse - and dont take good care of them , and i dont think in a country like jordan the goverment have a good budget for the animal welfare if even any .


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## msvette2u

> here are 2 means of refugies from the meseries of life : MUSIC cimbined with DOGS


I love your quote, btw. My son is 19 and I'm sure he'd say exactly the same thing. 
The other day he was holding and petting his Dachshund and said "there's nothing better than holding a Dachshund when you're having a bad day".
Just after he had his shoulder surgery, his sister's Dachshund was near him and he grabbed him and held him and said "Because Conan (his own dog) isn't close by!"
I love his love for dogs...it mirrors mine


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## selzer

abood said:


> thank you , and the farm is nice for a dog , huge space to run and play freely with food and water supplied all the time , what could be better for a dog??
> 
> and i really dont like shelters or pounds , as i think they do abuse puppies - not all ofcourse - and dont take good care of them , a*nd i dont think in a country like jordan the goverment have a good budget for the animal welfare if even any* .


I am surprised at this, I worked with a guy from Jordan. Is this economics, or because of the government's role in managing pet/domestic animal issues? Just curious, in my area the government doesn't shell out any money to run a shelter.


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## chelle

msvette2u said:


> If you had instead tried to interpret what he was saying instead of having a knee jerk reaction, things would go much better.


Really??? :rofl:

Are we having a "soft" moment here? Cute.


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## abood

msvette2u said:


> I love your quote, btw. My son is 19 and I'm sure he'd say exactly the same thing.
> The other day he was holding and petting his Dachshund and said "there's nothing better than holding a Dachshund when you're having a bad day".
> Just after he had his shoulder surgery, his sister's Dachshund was near him and he grabbed him and held him and said "Because Conan (his own dog) isn't close by!"
> I love his love for dogs...it mirrors mine


it popped to me when i was updating my stuff , it looks am here for the long run  .
i swear dogs can heal us better than docs. do , i support that , everytime i have a bad day or a bad thing i simply sit near my dog and she would lay under me and if i dont pet her she will squeeze her self under my arm  i swear i forget the whole world when am with her 

i heard that there are a budget which is good for animal welfare in jordan , but people exploit it for their own good and takes advantage for the lack of pet foundation in jordation and supporting.
like in jordan if u want to adopt a dog u pay 105 jds with is about 160 dollars and u have the dog fully vaccinated and health check up and neutered , even if a dog came to the shelter spayed and vaccinated u have to pay it as if the dog is not spayed , i mean am up with dogs that arent spayed or vaccinated but whats up with the ones that are , we have dogs that is walked once every week or two , dogs is fed sport mix i think , i once tried it with my puppy and she starved herself , but i found out royal canine and totw , i tried totw but my puppy didnt like it as much as royal canine


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## selzer

abood said:


> it popped to me when i was updating my stuff , it looks am here for the long run  .
> i swear dogs can heal us better than docs. do , i support that , everytime i have a bad day or a bad thing i simply sit near my dog and she would lay under me and if i dont pet her she will squeeze her self under my arm  i swear i forget the whole world when am with her
> 
> i heard that there are a budget which is good for animal welfare in jordan , but people exploit it for their own good and takes advantage for the lack of pet foundation in jordation and supporting.
> like in jordan if u want to adopt a dog u pay 105 jds with is about 160 dollars and u have the dog fully vaccinated and health check up and neutered , even if a dog came to the shelter spayed and vaccinated u have to pay it as if the dog is not spayed , i mean am up with dogs that arent spayed or vaccinated but whats up with the ones that are , we have dogs that is walked once every week or two , dogs is fed sport mix i think , i once tried it with my puppy and she starved herself , but i found out royal canine and totw , i tried totw but my puppy didnt like it as much as royal canine


Well, this is just a comment, don't take it wrong. We have a shelter that is private, run on donations and by volunteers, and word is exactly what you wrote, there is a lot of corruption, and from what dog-people say around here, well, I don't know anything for sure about it. 

Large dogs pretty much go for $25, and small dogs and puppies are a bit more. They will not adopt out pit bulls to people in Ashtabula as there is a ban there, but they have tons of pits. Dogs are speutered before they go now. They used to give vouchers, but too many people did not bother to spay/neuter and so now they dog it. The vet clinics help out. Our local government has no money for animal welfare. The license fees go for the dog-warden and administrative. If the warden has to park a dog at the shelter, the fund will pay for a couple of days' board. But that is all they will do for them. Well, in all fairness, that is all they can do. The general fund goes broke every year, and they have to shut down and put people on part time or lay them off -- government workers, sheriff's deputies, auditors, courthouse personnel, county services.

I do not think our shelter is mean to the animals, not deliberately. But usually once a year or once every other they kill a hundred or more dogs due to parvo outbreaks. It is sad. It is no good place for a critter to find themselves. Most of the pens are inside only, others are outside only -- and it gets hot and humid in the summer and very cold and snowy in the winter.


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## abood

well no to be honest am in a part of an organization that works to benefit the animals , and alot of them tries to help the shelter , this is my point of view of which i think its simply exploiting to ask for that money for any dog spayed or non spayed vaccinated or not vaccinated , but the shelter argument is always we want money to help the dogs and yet before 2 weeks they updated us with a wish list :/ other than that the shelter is really helping the animals , regarding to food that i mentioned earlier , for a shelter food sport mix is great i honestly dont expect them to pay a huge sum of money for high quality food as royal canine or totw so thinking of it i think there doing a great job , and before adopting they check on your house , the place where the dog is staying and keep visiting every now and then .

dude pits are the greatest , am wrapping up exams right now and when am done am looking into adopting one , a misunderstood breed which is corrupted by the media coverage :/ , 

i dont think there are good people bad people everywhere you just have to find the good ones .


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## CaliBoy

abood:

I just wanted to say that I think your dog is beautiful. The way she posed for you to take a photo of her also shows me that she is smart and attentive to you.

Welcome to this forum. I appreciate having members on here from different cultures, especially the Middle East, as this helps us to understand each other better and grow in respect.


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## abood

CaliBoy said:


> abood:
> 
> I just wanted to say that I think your dog is beautiful. The way she posed for you to take a photo of her also shows me that she is smart and attentive to you.
> 
> Welcome to this forum. I appreciate having members on here from different cultures, especially the Middle East, as this helps us to understand each other better and grow in respect.


thank you so much , am glad to be here


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## nitemares

Abood, i'm also happy to have you here. I volunteer as a coordinator between shelters in Egypt. And I'm happy to hear that other Arab countries have the same thing. All our dogs are spayed/neutered and fully vaccinated before they leave. contratc states dogs are returned to shelter in case it didn't work out. reselling is not an option. the shelters here are not funded by the government, they are non profit organizations, run by a group of volunteers and private donations. We try our best with what's available, all the shelters I'm involved with are non kill shelters.  
Glad you're sticking around Abood. Ppl here are a wealth of information.


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## abood

nitemares said:


> Abood, i'm also happy to have you here. I volunteer as a coordinator between shelters in Egypt. And I'm happy to hear that other Arab countries have the same thing. All our dogs are spayed/neutered and fully vaccinated before they leave. contratc states dogs are returned to shelter in case it didn't work out. reselling is not an option. the shelters here are not funded by the government, they are non profit organizations, run by a group of volunteers and private donations. We try our best with what's available, all the shelters I'm involved with are non kill shelters.
> Glad you're sticking around Abood. Ppl here are a wealth of information.


thats great , am in group thats more like underneath group which no obdy knows about , not a public shelter although we do help the public shelter .

and thank you so much.


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