# Need help w/hemangio sarcoma (?)



## Cecilg

I just found this site this morning and thank you for such great info.
I took my 9 yr old (Zero) GSD to the vet yesterday because we found a hard lump in his abdomen. The vet took an xray and says he thinks it is hemangio sarcoma. At least I think that was the name. The next step is to get an ultrasound on Friday and then he says he may need to do surgery right then if it shows there is a "lump". Does this sound like normal procedure? Zero has been acting fine except we have noticed that he breathes a little faster than usual. He has not lost any appetite or anything else. After reading some things on the internet last night I'm getting pretty scared. I live in north Georgia area and don't know if there is anyone that is extremely knowledgeable on this.
Any help and info you can give would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Cecil


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## Myamom

My (then) 9 year old GSD just went through a scare like this. A lump was found on her...a needle aspirate was done...which came back hemangiosarcoma. At that point...she was sent to a specialist (surgeon) for removal and biopsy. We really felt we were in good hands...he knew how much to remove beyond the tumor to get wide margins, etc. Very knowledgeable. In our case...the biopsy came back negative. (I had a thread here on her whole story...if i can find it...I will post the link) 

I have to tell you...if it had been positive...I already had a whole cancer fighting supplement regime in place set up by Marina Zacharias. If you are interested and need her contact info in the future...let me know. In terms of feeding...this is what she said:

"Think of her like a diabetic. Try to stay away from simple sugars such as corn potatoes pasta and sugar. Complex carbs are actually fine to give such oats or brown rice."


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## LisaT

Too much experience with this here on the board. I think that there is some cancer info in our health sticky at the top of the board, and of course a bunch in the Cancer sticky at the top of the board. 

Here is Bobo's







recent thread:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...t=1#Post1011175


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## lucymom

Unfortuneatly, I know more about hemangio than I want to. Lucy had NO symptoms at all, was fine until a mass on her spleen ruptured and she needed emergency surgery. A biopsy showed it was hemangio, which, I'm sorry to say, has a dismal prognosis.

Hemangio can be a silent disease, Lucy was symptom free while it was growing, and even until the day she died, she felt fine except for some appetite issues from chemo.

It would be better if your dog had the mass removed and biopsied, it may not be hemangio. If it is not removed, it may burst, which can cause a life-threatening bleed and seed the abdomen with cancer, which grows fast.

If you get the mass out, it can increase survival time. Also, it gives the doc a chance to look around the abdomen for other possible tumors.

I opted to do chemo. I took Lucy to a top oncologist, but the protocols don't really differ from vet to vet much. I consulted with the head of oncology at U Penn and was told that adriamycin, aka doxorubicin, is the only drug proven to slow the spread of disease. Other drugs such as cytoxin and some others, have not been proven to increase the length of time.

HOWEVER, there is a school of thought that after 4-6 rounds of doxy, there can be what's called a metronomic protocol, which is low doses of oral chemo, which may include cytoxin.

It is a very, very hard and frightening diagnosis. I did the chemo and also did holistic care for Lucy to help her with chemo. Her quality of life was very, very good, lots of running on the beach and playing. her white cell counts stayed normal all through chemo as did her heart, which can be damaged by the doxy. Her appetite was challenging though and I ended up cooking for her and trying lots of food--chemo can make food taste bad to dogs.

I was hoping and praying for her to live six months, which is common for a dog getting chemo. She lived exactly three months destpite chemo. She had clean utlrasounds two days before she died. Ultrasounds don't always pick up on small lesions hiding around the liver.

It is a scary disease, I can't minimize that for you. THere is a GREAT support group on yahoo called the Sumner Foundation, where people post their treatments, holistic supplements, food ideas, concerns, fears, etc. It kept me going through some hard times. If you email me privately, I"ll send you the link.

If you choose to do chemo, I'd ask the vet if they are experienced in administering it--doxy can be tricky and the dog has to be sedated\--if they pull out the catheter in their leg, it can burn their skin.

I was advised by nearly every vet except the money-hungry oncologist NOT to do chemo. I did because I was playing the odds and wanted more time. It is a very aggressive cancer and even chemo can only extend lifespan for a few months.

On the Sumner group, there ARE some people whose dogs completely bucked the odds and lived over a year, almost two years. There are not many, but they are out there. That hope can mean a lot.

Hindsight is everything now, I Lucy's chemo did not extend her life much, if at all and I wish I had not done it. But had I not, I would have spent my life wondering what would have been.

I'm so, so sorry I don't have better news. Not every mass is hemangio, there are benign masses. A biopsy is the only way to tell.

If you pursue additional treatment, perhaps ask your vet if any vet nearby have any oncology experience and consider seeing that vet, or if he'd be willing to consult by phone with one.

If you need support, please feel free to email me privately throughout this. It's scary and you should not feel alone.

Prayers and good wishes being sent your way and for Zero.


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## Cecilg

Thanks to all who have replied. I think I have read everything that I can to know that things don't look so great. We will be at the vets office on Friday morning and have the ultrasound and then go from there. I know that we will also do the removal at that time if it indeed shows what we feel it will. I just want to make sure that I do everything I can to keep him though I know if the worst case shows to be true it won't be long. This is my first GSD and has been the best I could have asked for. I will keep reading and learning and appreciate everything you folks can offer for advice and help.
Again thanks and I will stay tuned.
Cecil


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## arycrest

I hope and pray it's not hemangiosarcoma, it's a very nasty disease. You're very smart to do the ultrasound and biopsy.

I've never been lucky enough to catch it when there's still some time left. Maybe one day I'll learn to recognize symptoms, but so far I've done a miserable job. 

All the Hooligans diagnosed with it were elderly, ranging in age from 9 years/11 months to 12 years/11 months. Echo, Ringer and Kelly were diagnosed with it in their hearts. It killed Echo within hours after I first noticed something was wrong and rushed him to the vet's office. Ringer & Kelly both had numerous health issues which affected their quality of life and would have been put down even if the hemangiosarcoma had not been found. Bo, my mutt, was diagnosed with it in his spleen - when they did the emergency surgery all his organs were riddled with cancer and he had to be put down.

Good luck with you pupper!!!


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## RebelGSD

Unfortunately I am familiar with the disease, I lost two dogs to it. My shepherd mix Lady had metastases when she started bleeding and was too far gone for anything to be done. She was PTS three days after diagnosis. BoBo was strong and perfectly healthy all his life. He was running and playing until he collapes in February, he showed no symptoms until he started bleeding. 

When BoBo collapsed in February and they saw the mass on the spleen, the options were hemangioma (benign) or hemangiosarcoma (very aggressive malignant). The only way to decide was to remove it and send it in for analysis. The results were back 5 days later and it was malignant. BoBo had no visible metastases on other organs and we opted for chemotherapy. The vets told me that without chemo the dogs are usually gone before the stitches are out. The prognosis was 3-6 months with chemo. I lost BoBo to two massive bleeds after exactly 4 months. I was hoping for 6, but the 4 months were definitely worth it to me. BoBo had an excellent quality of life during these 4 months and we were very happy. We did the chemo at the University of Pennsylvania and they did not offer any further options after 4 rounds of chemo. I had BoBo on different supplements too. Some (rare) dogs live long normal lives after the surgery, so it is possible. 

His thread has a lot of useful information
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...t=1#Post1011175

I think it is important to do the surgery ASAP, before the tumor ruptures and bleeds. The chances of long term survival are much better in that case. I wish you best of luck with your boy and I will say a prayer that it is not hemangiosarcoma.


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## Cecilg

Thanks again everyone,

I guess we will be on pins and needles until Friday. I just never realized this sort of thing existed. Not very up to speed on until yesterday and today. I will learn as much as possible. This has been a miserable 25 hrs so far since we found out about it.


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## pupresq

On your other list have they looked at the outcomes for dogs who had it removed pre-rupture versus post rupture? It seems like so many owners only find out about this when a splenic tumor ruptures and the dog goes in for emergency surgery. My parents' dog had it and was totally asymptomatic but by lucky happinstance the vet noticed an abdominal mass as they were lifting him to the table for a dental. They ended up doing emergency surgery and getting the whole mass out intact. He then went through similar chemo regime to your dog - I know she mentioned the adriamycin, I think they also did cytoxin. Happily he lived quite a bit longer and never had any further recurrence of that cancer although he later died of lymphoma. My mom was saying she thought his success was probably due to the fact that the tumor hadn't ruptured and therefore hadn't spread cancer cells throughout his abdomen the way it would have if he'd had a bleed. Don't know if the research supports that theory or not. 

The frequency (and stealth) of this particular tumor makes me wonder if it's worth doing routine scans or ultrasounds on senior dogs in an attempt to catch it in time. Grace is 9 years old and it's an idea I've been considering. Not sure how much they can tell or not. 

To the OP - good luck with your pup! Hopefully even if it is HS, the early treatment will improve his prognosis.


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## BowWowMeow

I hope it is something else. I will send some good thoughts your way! 

I lost my boy Basu to hemangiosarcoma after the splenic tumor had bled out. He was a few months short of 11. Same thing with my Massie, although she had lived a good, long life and had multiple health problems in the end. 

Appreciate each day you have with him--their lives are far too short, that's for sure.


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## RebelGSD

I asked about the rupture as I was upset with the vet who did the surgery for not flushing BoBo's abdomen. They did not flush the blood from the abdomen because dogs tend to reabsorb it. I brought this up at UPenn and was told that it does not matter. I was told that the cancer spreads with the blood flow internally and that those metastases grow much faster than those from the post-rupture bleeding that would form from the outside, caused by cancer cells sticking to organs. At UPenn they had a trial where they administered the chemo into the abdomen (not IV) to kill the metastases formed by the bleeding. The trial was not successful and there was no improved survival (the chemo substance could directly reach the cancer cells that attached to the organs). The dogs died from bleeding from metastases that spread through the blood flow, not those created by the bleeding (they do a necropsy on each dog that is in the trial). They told me that by the time the tumor is noticed, it has already spread. They told me that the survival duration was better if the tumor is stage I (no bleeding) contrasted to stage II (after bleeding as the case of BoBo).

They also told me that some rare dogs continue to live normal lives after splenectomy, even without the chemo. 

I know that in humans they can stage the tumor as to how aggressive it is, based on the appearance of the cells, their distribution and number. I asked, but they do not do this with HSA in dogs. I still have his pathology slides.


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## RebelGSD

A friend's Golden Retriever was diagnosed with HSA of the pericardium and she had numerous metastases. She lived 6 months without surgery or chemo. I wonder whether the spleen HSA is more aggressive.


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## Martie

We lost our beautiful 7-year-old GSD, Klaus, to HS of the spleen (and suspected liver based on ultrasound) 1 1/2 years ago. In his case, there was no lump as there seems to be in some others. His spleen was covered with small tumors - looked like freckles on the US - and there were many suspicious lesions on his liver. There was no outward sign until he collapsed one evening.

Pupresq - interesting idea about doing routine ultrasounds - I wonder how fast it progresses - if there would be a chance of catching it - and if it might make a difference in prognosis... I would sure do it if I thought it would help. 

To the OP - We also had not heard of HS before Klaus and have since learned it is an all too common and devastating cancer. I join BowWowMeow in hoping it is something else for you and your dog and am also sending good thoughts your way.


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## Cecilg

Thanks for all the good thoughts. I need all the positive thinking I can get at this point.


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## selzer

When Arwen was seven, the vet thought that the spleen was enlarged and with her age he though hemangiosarcoma. He x-rayed, and still thought it was. 

He told me that if it was, with an operation she has six months. Without, probably three months or less. He thought surgery right away was the answer, but wanted to do bloodwork and confir with his colleagues. 

He came back with sending my a couple of hours away for an ultrasound. 

I had a day or two to think it over. 

I was pretty crazy. 

The ultrasound vet palpated her and agreed with the possible hemangiosarcoma. He said that the next step (after the ultrasound would be to see if it masthetisized (sp.). 

But I had already decided that if it was hemangiosarcoma on the spleen, I would bring Arwen home and give her the best few months of her life, and let nature run its course.

I was lucky. The ultrasound came back clear of hemangiosarcoma. 

I am hoping that you have good news from your ultrasound. Maybe if it is not on a major organ, there is a better prognosis.


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## Cecilg

Well, I've spent the last day and a half with Zero. He seems to be tiring easily as compared to just a few weeks ago.
Tomorrow we get the ultrasound and then determine if surgery is the next route we have to go down. I feel very helpless at this point and pretty worried about tomorrow. I guess from everything I read from the posts, the good thing is there is no rupture at this point.
I hope you all will keep the positive thoughts and prayers coming our way. We need all we can get.
Thanks for all your support and I will update as I know.


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## marksmom3

Good luck tomorrow. We'll be hoping for the best for you and Zero.


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## Cecilg

Well, I thought I would give an update on Zero.
We did the ultrasound on Friday morning. The Vet could not see any other affected areas at that time. We decided to straight to surgery to remove the tumor that was seen both on the x-ray and the ultrasound. When they got in there they still didn't see any other areas that were affected. They then removed the tumor and I was told that it weighed 4 1/2 lbs. This sounds huge to me! We have been constantly monitoring him since he got home including sleeping on the floor with him. Today he seems as if he feels a little better in that he is walking for short periods around the house to his favorite spots. I don't know exactly how is supposed to be feeling and acting but it sure seems so much better than yesterday. We are keeping him as quiet as possible and trying to feed him in small amounts for now. His appetite does seem to be pretty good at this point. Anyway, we get the staples out a week form tomorrow and I look forward to that as I think he will have healed around the incision pretty well by then. 
Sorry to ramble but I'm excited to see him feeling better.
Thanks to all of you for your support and help in getting through this.


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## arycrest

HOLY COW - his tumor was HUGE!!! Thanks so much for the update. Am happy to hear that Zero did well with his surgery and is starting to feel better.


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## Myamom

They are doing a biopsy...correct? 
Happy to hear he did so well with the surgery


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## Cecilg

Thanks all.
Yes they have sent it for biopsy and we will know later this week. I'm not sure why it takes so long but we'll have to wait. He is feeling a little down today. Maybe a little too much moving around yesterday although we didn't let him walk too much. Had a little bit of a restless night. Hopefully tonight is better.


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## RebelGSD

Hopefully it is hemangioma, which is benign.
BoBo's lesion was only 4-5cm when he had a major bleed. He received two units of blood after surgery and bounced back in no time. Has Zero received any blood. The 4 1/2 lbs tumor probably contained a lot of blood and the blood loss will affect his energy level. It is wonderful news that there were no other lesions visible.
Prayers going your way.


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## Cecilg

There was no blood given but his energy level is really good. Today he seems to be almost him old self which is great. I was a little worried about some redness around the incision but was told it was just slight "bruising" from the incision itself. It has now gotten better and hopefully will be gone in another day or so. We are so thankful there was no bleeding and still believing in the best.


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## Cecilg

Here's my update.
I finally got a call from our Vet just now. He says that the Pathologist report shows that Zero does not have Hemangiosarcoma but instead has Leiosarcoma.
Since I just received the call I haven't had much time to research this. What I have found is that this is very disturbing news as the results don't seem to be any better. It also seems to be very rare.
Do any of you folks have info on this or know anything about it? I am getting pretty desperate to find out how to deal with it. 
Sorry for the rambling but I'm not thinking this through very clearly at this point.
Thanks for all the help and the listening.


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## Cecilg

Sorry but I misspelled . It is Leiomyosarcoma.
Again thanks


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## BowWowMeow

I am sorry that you did not get better news. I have never heard of this cancer but if you go to the Health section of this board you will see a huge thread on cancer and dogs. That has lots of good info on nutrition, supplements, support groups, etc. 








to you and your boy.


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## arycrest

> Originally Posted By: CecilGSorry but I misspelled . It is Leiomyosarcoma.
> Again thanks


I'm so sorry to hear about Zero's diagnosis. I've never heard of this type of cancer before. I googled it and can't find much information.
http://petcancercenter.org/Cancer_Types_soft_tissue_leiomyosarcoma.html
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23307.htm


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## LJsMom

I'm so very sorry.


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## Martie

I have not heard of this cancer either. IMHO, I might suggest enjoying the weekend with Zero, give yourself some time to collect your thoughts and feelings and get back to your vet next week with a list of questions. I am wanting to know about margins and if metastases were found and if it was confined to a muscle or involved an organ. Let your vet make a recommendation next week. Maybe see another vet or oncologist for a second opinion and once all your questions are answered, let your heart be your guide.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. For want of a better description, it just sucks. You will be in our thoughts and prayers.







Please let us know what you learn and decide.

Best,


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## Cecilg

Well, we got through the weekend fine and have been spending a lot of time with Zero. We went to the vet yesterday and had the staples removed. That was fun. I asked all the questions I could come up with and it sounds like we will just have to see how he does. The vet says that he saw no metastases and no sigs of anything on anything except the spleen. The ultrasound showed nothing else either. You're right about there being not much on the net about this. Especially anything new. I will keep working with Zero and hopefully he feels better as time goes. Most of the time he seems to feel good but sometimes he just seems tired. I am still a little afraid to let him run or go up and down stairs for a little while longer. I'm trying to make every day a good one.
Thanks for all of your help,thoughts and prayers.


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