# Whats the point



## jagsir (Oct 19, 2010)

why should i neuter my dog?
ps i seriously dont know why people neuter there dogs. i think its just wrong.


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## Heagler870 (Jun 27, 2009)

Have you ever worked in a shelter before? Yeah, people will argue you can have unaltered dogs and them never be bred. That's true but there is ALWAYS a possiblity your dog can get away from you. Even if you're the most professional dog trainer around, there is always that slight possibility.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

If you don't want your dog to have the possibility to reproduce, you CAN look for a vet that will perform a vasectomy on your dog. That way your dog isn't neutered but still won't reproduce. Trouble is finding a vet to perform the surgery, since it's not as common. 

However, many people feel that the benefits outweigh the risks. And I can see why. Have you tried looking for the pros/cons of neutering? I have, and almost everything I found is biased to neutering, so they make it sound like neutering is awesome and keeping your dog intact will turn them into an aggressive monster that pees on everything and runs away looking for bitches in heat.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure you'll get a lot of pro speuter people that will lecture you about keeping your dog intact. My mom was very upset when I told her that I decided not to neuter Ozzy. However, she understands that I feel that the risks outweigh the benefits and didn't hound me about it because she knows I'm not an idiot that will let him run around without supervision.

I am against breeding. But I do not feel that every dog has to be speutered.


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## jagsir (Oct 19, 2010)

he's the first dog ive ever had. ps im only 13 and my brother told me i should thinkabout talking to my parents about neutering him. so the only adavntage of neutering is no breeding.?


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## jagsir (Oct 19, 2010)

Konotashi said:


> If you don't want your dog to have the possibility to reproduce, you CAN look for a vet that will perform a vasectomy on your dog. That way your dog isn't neutered but still won't reproduce. Trouble is finding a vet to perform the surgery, since it's not as common.
> 
> However, many people feel that the benefits outweigh the risks. And I can see why. Have you tried looking for the pros/cons of neutering? I have, and almost everything I found is biased to neutering, so they make it sound like neutering is awesome and keeping your dog intact will turn them into an aggressive monster that pees on everything and runs away looking for bitches in heat.


wait will neutering him stop him from peeing?


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Intact dogs tend to mark less. However, there is no guarantee that it will stop them from marking. 

We have a netuered male Frenchie. He was neutered young (six months). He's 2 years now and marks all over the house. 

I think Ozzy has hit sexual maturity a month or so ago (he's been showing interest in mounting behaviors, among other things), and he does not mark. He is not neutered, and unless there is a valid reason for me to, I will not neuter him. 

Someone brought up the fact that it is a training issue, not a neutering issue. As is the roaming and several other 'cons' that are involved with keeping a dog intact. If you train your dog and keep him in line, you won't have to worry. 

My boyfriend has 2 intact male rat terriers. They live together with no issues. Don't mark. They are protective of their property, but their family likes them like that. They are very friendly little dogs, once their family has shown them that you're okay to be there. They don't try to escape their yard.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

There are a ton of threads on neutering.

There are health risks and benefits to neutering it is up to you to decide what is best. 

Some training places, daycare, parks, etc.. will not allow intact dogs. 

Marking is 100% a training issue and has nothing to do with being neutered or not.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Even on here, many of the threads are biased toward speuter, it seems. From what I found, anyway.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

jagsir said:


> why should i neuter my dog?
> ps i seriously dont know why people neuter there dogs. *i think its just wrong*.


What is your opinion for why it is 'just wrong?' 

I know many people who refuse to get their dogs neutered simply for the fact that they can't fathom the idea to have their own 'man parts' removed, so they can't bear to do it to their animals either. 

I'm not saying that's why you think it's just wrong, but you didn't give much detail. But if that's why, then maybe you should consider it, or do some more in-depth research and seriously weigh the pros and cons of neutering.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

If you can't make sure your dog won't get out and reproduce, neuter him. 

There are risks and benefits to both sides. I am against neutering my animals, but I am very responsible handling intact animals. Not everyone's lifestyles permit them to keep unaltered animals though. 

I have worked in two shelters and see on a daily basis what people with the best intentions put out there by letting their animals reproduce. Don't become that guy.

Basically, I feel, if your dog isn't well-trained, and kept on leash 100% of the time outside, then he should be neutered.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I see no reason for you to neuter your dog. 

I think instead of neutering your dog, you should make a commitment to keep him intact and safe, to socialize and train him, to work with him every day, to never let him off lead where he is not secured by a solid fence that he cannot jump. To never leave him in an enclosure where it is possible that he could dig out of, climb out of, or break through. 

The main thing is to keep your dog safe, in your home when you are not right with him, crated until he is no longer a danger to himself when not supervised. 

Also, make it a commitment to learn everything there is to learn about German Shepherds, and to become aware of problems, issues facing the breed. 

You do not have to neuter your dog, but keeping an intact dog ignorantly is mostly a danger to the dog, and also the possibility that you will increase the number of unwanted GSDs. So become committed to learn and act wisely when it comes to your pup. Keep him safe.

Keeping a neutered dog ignorantly is just as much a danger to the dog.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> If you can't make sure your dog won't get out and reproduce, neuter him.
> 
> There are risks and benefits to both sides. I am against neutering my animals, but I am very responsible handling intact animals. Not everyone's lifestyles permit them to keep unaltered animals though.
> 
> ...


More often than not, when I take Ozzy out, he's not on a leash. Typically we go out to play fetch or I take him out off-leash to check the mail or take him out front to sit with me or he goes potty out front, etc. However, I know he's not going to run off. He doesn't even chase the cats that are in the neighborhood. I have control over him and watch him very carefully. 

So I don't think it's right to say that dogs that go outside off-leash should be neutered. I think it's right to say that the owner should have control over their dog if they're going to be outside, _especially_ off-leash.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with this. The kid is 13. For now, and probably the next year or two or longer, no way will the dog be ready to be worked off lead where there is no fence keeping him safe.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Selzer has my train of thought dead-on. 

My dog is often outside off leash on trails, etc. where I have his attention, because he is well trained. A 13 year old shouldn't and won't be ready for that level of responsibility for a few years at the least. 

Keep him fenced, I say.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

If he's 13, then shouldn't it be up to the parents whether the dog is neutered or not, then?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

*shrugs* If it's his dog his parents may be leaving the choice up to him, or he may be paying for it. I know I had a job and money at 13.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

No testicles = no possibility of testicular cancer. 

BTW, in the future please try to put your threads in the appropriate forum. I've done a notification on this one to have it moved.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's something you might want to read over. You can scroll down to the bullet points for the condensed version or you can read through it all. 

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Konotashi said:


> Here's something you might want to read over. You can scroll down to the bullet points for the condensed version or you can read through it all.
> 
> http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf


I like this .pdf


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Konotashi said:


> What is your opinion for why it is 'just wrong?'


Because the OP is 13 and, judging by the user name, male.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I think it's funny you guys expect a 13 year old to be able to control everything that happens with this dog. HE could be responsible but does that mean the rest of the family will be enough that when he's not home (ie. school, out with friends...) that the dog wont be out mating the neighbors mutt 7 houses down?

At 13, I had full control of my dogs lives besides when they were taken to the vet and spaying and neutering. I trained, exercised, fed/watered, played with them, ect. I even bought their food by having a babysitting job. By 16 I had full control over -5- dogs including vet care for Chance. He was neutered at the shelter so it wasn't an option for me. However, I still would have had him neutered. Why? Because I wasn't home 100% of the time and occasionally my family did have to let them out for me if I worked too late or whatever. My family is filled with -idiots-. Growing up our intact female was allowed to roam the neighborhood. Amazingly, it wasn't until she was kept inside that she actually got knocked up (TWICE!!!!) by our male because my mom didn't think they would breed even though Zoey was never watched/kenneled when she was in heat and was still allowed to be around Jocko freely. This is coming from a woman who had 4 kids, you'd think she would know enough about the "birds and the bees" to realize it was coming. Living with my family, there was no way to keep intact animals. I could keep them safe, but that didn't mean my family would. They would take them out of their crate and let them out back unsupervised when I wasn't home without permission. There was NO way to prevent THEM from causing an accident litter except to spay ad neuter my pets. I have -NO- regrets about it either.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

^ Don't let your family take your dog out and you won't have issues. 

That's what I did. Our puppy could sit there pissing in his crate, but you're not laying a hand on him because you're ignorant. 
(You as in my parents and my boyfriend's parents)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think it is natural for us to base our opinions on our own experience with our family or ourselves at thirteen. 

I would be hypocrit if I told this boy, for you, I think it is important that you neuter your dog. I think neutering causes more health problems than it prevents. I also think that it is up to the bitch's owner as well as the dog's to ensure that there are not puppies. 

But if a thirteen year old has no power over the family allowing the dog out to roam about down the street to impregnate the bitch down there, then a thirteen year old should not have a dog, nor any people with children. 

Dogs should NEVER be allowed to roam down the street to meet bitches or squirrels or deer or chickens or fill in the blank. If you cannot guarantee family members will not let the dog roam the neighborhood, than only single people should have dogs. 

Obviously, many of us CAN ensure that dogs do not run rampant. 

I think maybe the OP, should have a discussion with his mother and father and explain that he does not want his dog to ever get out, because he might lose him in the road, and that would be terrible. So he should impress upon them to help him make sure that never happens. 

I think a teenager can keep a dog intact and celibate, it really isn't that hard. If the true number of oops litters were only really known, and people would not keep pretending that they just turne around for a second, and voila, the dogs were locked....

A better question is maturity. How many of us would have WANTED puppies at age 13. Honestly, I would have LOVED to have puppies as a kid. So how many of us are gaging our own maturity and decision making skills at that time and applying it to the OP? It takes a bit of maturity to see the outcome and long term consequences of letting nature take its course.


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## Tropism (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm against neutering before the animal's fully grown, for health, appearance, and temperament reasons. I'm very much against early neutering, which has been shown to increase hyperactive behaviors in dogs. 

But if the dog isn't going to be bred, or particularly if it's not good enough material to be bred? Snip away once it has stopped growing, I say.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

DJEtzel said:


> ^ Don't let your family take your dog out and you won't have issues.
> 
> That's what I did. Our puppy could sit there pissing in his crate, but you're not laying a hand on him because you're ignorant.
> (You as in my parents and my boyfriend's parents)


First, you should read better and see that I said "They would take them out of their crate and let them out back unsupervised when *I wasn't home without permission.*"

Second, it's sad you'd rather your dog piss all over himself than be let out because you don't want him neutered while living with your family.  Making your dog hold it's bladder is going to cause more problems than getting him altered. I remember working a 12 hour shift one day where I couldn't get home for break. Nobody was home to let the dogs out and I remember speeding home and running inside to let the dogs out of their crates. As soon as I opened the door, Chance's bladder litterally was released with him having no control over it. He had to pee SO bad and his bladder was SO full that it couldn't be contained any longer. It made me sick to my stomach thinking about how I would have felt if that was me trying to hold my bladder that long. I gently washed him off, gave him some treats and cuddled with him. I felt so awful about it. And yet you'd rather your dog pee on himself. Please, go try to hold you bladder for so long that you piss yourself because you can't physically hold it anymore. It's incredibly uncomfortable. I'd rather have him neutered and my stupid family let him out than risk problems such as UTI's (Being a girl, I'm sure you've had your share of these and KNOW how incredibly painful they are), incontinence, or ammonia burns from making my dog hold his bladder too long or sitting in his own pee.

And even if you consider just a normal school day (so 6-7 hours), that's -still- a VERY long time for your dog to hold it's bladder. An adult dog can typically do it, but that doesn't mean they should have to. IMO, if it's an amount of time that makes ME uncomfortable to hold MY bladder, it's probably too long for my dog to hold his comfortably.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ChancetheGSD said:


> First, you should read better and see that I said "They would take them out of their crate and let them out back unsupervised when *I wasn't home without permission.*"
> 
> Second, it's sad you'd rather your dog piss all over himself than be let out because you don't want him neutered while living with your family.  Making your dog hold it's bladder is going to cause more problems than getting him altered. I remember working a 12 hour shift one day where I couldn't get home for break. Nobody was home to let the dogs out and I remember speeding home and running inside to let the dogs out of their crates. As soon as I opened the door, Chance's bladder litterally was released with him having no control over it. He had to pee SO bad and his bladder was SO full that it couldn't be contained any longer. It made me sick to my stomach thinking about how I would have felt if that was me trying to hold my bladder that long. I gently washed him off, gave him some treats and cuddled with him. I felt so awful about it. And yet you'd rather your dog pee on himself. Please, go try to hold you bladder for so long that you piss yourself because you can't physically hold it anymore. It's incredibly uncomfortable. I'd rather have him neutered and my stupid family let him out than risk problems such as UTI's (Being a girl, I'm sure you've had your share of these and KNOW how incredibly painful they are), incontinence, or ammonia burns from making my dog hold his bladder too long or sitting in his own pee.
> 
> And even if you consider just a normal school day (so 6-7 hours), that's -still- a VERY long time for your dog to hold it's bladder. An adult dog can typically do it, but that doesn't mean they should have to. IMO, if it's an amount of time that makes ME uncomfortable to hold MY bladder, it's probably too long for my dog to hold his comfortably.


A padlock on a crate does wonders. 

It's not that I don't want him neutered while living with my family and such. I don't want him neutered period and I'm not living with family, but while I was, they were irresponsible. I wouldn't have let them take him out if he WAS neutered. And didn't. They didn't leash him the few times they were allowed, and teased and taunted him and did stupid stuff. Fed him scraps, etc. So no more. If you're not going to be responsible, you won't touch my dog. 

That said, I never left him long enough that he would go or want to go in his crate. He's had a total of 2 accidents in the house since puppyhood, and only one was as a puppy, and it wasn't in his crate. I wouldn't get a puppy if I wasn't going to be able to be home enough or have someone responsible come to let him out. A 6 hour school day for someone like the OP is no problem really. Set up an ex pen so the pup has room, put down some papers, and work on housetraining x10 while you are home. It's not rocket science and the puppy does not suffer. And an adult dog will and can easily hold its bladder that long. Frag typically does on his own accord for 8-9 hours before asking to be let out. Sure, he'd probably go if we took him out sooner (and we often do) but he will go that long before needing out. And he's just over a year old. He's been like this since 8 months. 

'Nuff said.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

To the OP...is your dog an outdoor dog? Reading your old posts...that refer to his house outside...neighbors that complain about his barking...and you just leaving him alone out there when he doesn't listen...make me think so?


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

*A padlock on a crate does wonders.*

Considering my biggest fear is house fires, I'd rather my idiot family be able to take my dogs out than burn slowly and painful because they can't get him out of the fire because he's padlocked in a kennel. Or again, because I'm over working and can't get home and I DO need them to let them out. It's not like they let them out with no fence (That was Zoey years ago) to wander. I just prefer my dogs be supervised outside, even with a fence.

I just think it's stupid so many people think it's the end of the world if your dog is fixed. As Selzer said, it really comes down to the family and it's something this kid needs to speak with them about. But considering how many animals in this world are fixed, fine and LIVE LONG LIVES...I don't feel it's -that- big of a health risk. Chance pulled through a neuter while dying of parvo. Zoey pulled through her spay with a uterus the size of a baseball from pyometra due to NOT being spayed in the first place. For a HEALTHY dog, it's not that big of a risk and YES, your average dog owner does need to have their pets fixed. It's wonderful there are so many people here who can be responsible enough to keep intact pets but that's NOT the average owner. If it was, we wouldn't have shelters over ran with animals.


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## Deuce (Oct 14, 2010)

It worries me just to read the OP's post.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

ChancetheGSD said:


> *A padlock on a crate does wonders.*
> 
> Considering my biggest fear is house fires, I'd rather my idiot family be able to take my dogs out than burn slowly and painful because they can't get him out of the fire because he's padlocked in a kennel. Or again, because I'm over working and can't get home and I DO need them to let them out. It's not like they let them out with no fence (That was Zoey years ago) to wander. I just prefer my dogs be supervised outside, even with a fence.
> 
> I just think it's stupid so many people think it's the end of the world if your dog is fixed. As Selzer said, it really comes down to the family and it's something this kid needs to speak with them about. But considering how many animals in this world are fixed, fine and LIVE LONG LIVES...I don't feel it's -that- big of a health risk. Chance pulled through a neuter while dying of parvo. Zoey pulled through her spay with a uterus the size of a baseball from pyometra due to NOT being spayed in the first place. For a HEALTHY dog, it's not that big of a risk and YES, your average dog owner does need to have their pets fixed. It's wonderful there are so many people here who can be responsible enough to keep intact pets but that's NOT the average owner. If it was, we wouldn't have shelters over ran with animals.


I'm not an above average pet owner and I keep mine just fine. I never said it was the end of the world to neuter though. I will be neutering my dog in the future. 

ps; you can still open a crate with a padlock. They're collapsible, and I've done it numerous times with the dog still in with no issue. It isn't hard.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I believe with all my heart that owners should be able to make up their own mind about when/or if to neuter their male dogs. But there should absolutely be a decision making process to reach that conclusion. Part of the decision making process for them should be a clear headed, realistic look at how they manage their dog currently, their understanding of what it takes to be responsible and the extent to which they go to be a responsible owner of an intact dog.

I think it does a great disservice to our dogs, our breed and our communities to use blanket statements or to base advice given to someone on our own experiences or lifestyles. Not everyone is going to maintain escape proof kennels, so to say that someone should keep an intact dog because you have escape proof kennels and that has worked well for you is totally ignoring the fact that MOST pet owners don't keep their pets like that. Or to say that you were able to keep a dog safe and protected from poor choices made by family members/room-mates/neighbors totally ignores the fact that for most people that isn't a valid option, given their current living situation.

Nor is it fair to the tons of responsible owners out there who DO manage their intact dogs safely to ignore the idea of doing it right. Look at Lies and how well she does with her Nikon. And there are other members here, just like her, who do a fantastic job of managing their intact males. Given their commitment to doing it right, who here would tell Lies or any of those others to neuter their male? But does that same advice sound good for a 13 year old kid with a puppy that lives outside?

Blanket statements are rarely a good idea. Please encourage people who ask these types of questions (here or in "real life") to take a look at THEIR OWN CURRENT circumstances and lifestyle before making a decision. 
Sheilah


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

^^ excellent post!!


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