# Nail Trimming



## MchaelS (Jul 3, 2011)

Okay, has anyone developed a method to trim the nails of a GSD that WILL NOT ALLOW IT? This is probably the only quirk that my big guy Zeke has. I can not even bring the nail trimmer out of the bag without him running away. I am baffled by the behavior because those few times when I have been successful trimming his nails when he was young, I'd never hit the quick and caused him any pain. As it stands we have to take him to the vet and have him drugged up to do it, thus we generally have to wait for his yearly exam. Can't afford to do it that way any longer. I've tried bribery, diversion, being firm, just about everything except hog tying him.
 During the nice weather I play ball with him on the concrete which helps a little, but I can't do it often enough to actually make a big difference. Any ideas? Please!

Thanks
Mike


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

First, put him on a leash and collar so you can correct him. There's no excuse for you to ever say your dog won't let you do anything. Be ready for a down and dirty event that you must win because you've let your dog tell you what you can do and you now have to correct that thought. 

Trim the all toes as fast as you can - all that matters is you do all the toes, perfect doesn't matter at this point- a dremel is the preferred tool. Do not stop in the middle or pause after any of the feet: keep going. You want to give your dog the least amount of time to think about how he's dying and then you are done.

When you are done, do not let him go on his own. It's extremely important that you be the one that releases him and not him escaping. If he thinks he fought and escaped, he will think fighting you is the way to get out of this and will continue. After you release him, you make a huge deal over him.

After a couple of times of doing this, your dog will resign himself and start to hold still. Be sure to reward this by letting up on the restraint and using quiet praise the whole time. 

Do trim toes at least once a week until he's good about this. You both will need the frequent repetition to get better about this and toes should be trimmed once a week anyway.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Elaine said:


> First, put him on a leash and collar so you can correct him. There's no excuse for you to ever say your dog won't let you do anything. Be ready for a down and dirty event that you must win because you've let your dog tell you what you can do and you now have to correct that thought.
> 
> Trim the all toes as fast as you can - all that matters is you do all the toes, perfect doesn't matter at this point- a dremel is the preferred tool. Do not stop in the middle or pause after any of the feet: keep going. You want to give your dog the least amount of time to think about how he's dying and then you are done.
> 
> ...


I'm frustrated too. I don't think force will work :c if I tried this Zeeva would hurt herself.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, it actually does. This is the one case where compulsion is necessary. Your dog has absolutely no say in getting her toes done. Period. This carries over to everything you do with your dog. Your dog should never, ever tell you what you can or can't do. What if she's hurt and in pain? You still have to be able to handle her without her fighting or biting you and this is part of teaching her to let you do whatever you want with her and her letting you.

I've done this to every single foster that has come through my home - and almost all of them said no to toe trimming - and they all walk out of here good about toe trimming. It's all in correcting hard enough to make your point and then immediately praising for a moment of her holding still. They quickly learn that holding still is good and the trimming will be over very soon and then the party begins. They love the party part and really look forward to it.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

You know what I did? I put her prong on and for the last 5 or 10 minutes I've been cutting her nails. I don't know if this is a good way to cut nails but FINALLY something worked! I corrected if she got up. A yank on the prong with the leash. She'd lay back down and we'd attempt the next nail. It worked...you have no idea how frustrated I've been with her nails the last few weeks. I'd cut one here one there while she was sleeping, while she was distracted. Nothing worked. 

Thank you. Finally some peace  

P.S. why don't Smokeys nails grow? I've NRVER trimmed them yet they are always at his hairline...



Elaine said:


> Yes, it actually does. This is the one case where compulsion is necessary. Your dog has absolutely no say in getting her toes done. Period. This carries over to everything you do with your dog. Your dog should never, ever tell you what you can or can't do. What if she's hurt and in pain? You still have to be able to handle her without her fighting or biting you and this is part of teaching her to let you do whatever you want with her and her letting you.
> 
> I've done this to every single foster that has come through my home - and almost all of them said no to toe trimming - and they all walk out of here good about toe trimming. It's all in correcting hard enough to make your point and then immediately praising for a moment of her holding still. They quickly learn that holding still is good and the trimming will be over very soon and then the party begins. They love the party part and really look forward to it.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> You know what I did? I put her prong on and for the last 5 or 10 minutes I've been cutting her nails. I don't know if this is a good way to cut nails but FINALLY something worked! I corrected if she got up. A yank on the prong with the leash. She'd lay back down and we'd attempt the next nail. It worked...you have no idea how frustrated I've been with her nails the last few weeks. I'd cut one here one there while she was sleeping, while she was distracted. Nothing worked.
> 
> Thank you. Finally some peace
> 
> P.S. why don't Smokeys nails grow? I've NRVER trimmed them yet they are always at his hairline...


Glad it's helping, but you need to trim much faster than that. It shouldn't take more than 2 minutes total for all 4 feet. Don't worry about style at this point, just trim and get it over with so your dog doesn't have time to agonize over this. The faster you go, the quicker they get to party, and the faster they get better about toe trimming.

I can't imagine the trust issues with your dog when she finds you sneaking up on her in her sleep to trim toes! Not the best idea.

As for your other dog, I suspect it's how they walk. Some dogs probably walk more forward on their feet causing the toes to scrape more. People walk differently, so no reason not to think that dogs don't do it to some extent too.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Glad it's helping, but you need to trim much faster than that. It shouldn't take more than 2 minutes total for all 4 feet. Don't worry about style at this point, just trim and get it over with so your dog doesn't have time to agonize over this. The faster you go, the quicker they get to party, and the faster they get better about toe trimming.
> 
> I can't imagine the trust issues with your dog when she finds you sneaking up on her in her sleep to trim toes! Not the best idea.
> 
> As for your other dog, I suspect it's how they walk. Some dogs probably walk more forward on their feet causing the toes to scrape more. People walk differently, so no reason not to think that dogs don't do it to some extent too.


We'll get there  I'm still a klutz at it-still a bit awkward and concerned about cutting too far down so I'd rather take a little extra time than to hurt her. Plus it's been so long since I've trimmed her nails and I've read somewhere that if you don't trim them often the quick (sp?) goes further down? Not sure if this is true...Can you actually see the quick? 

Yea I agree sneaking up on her to cut her nails while she was sleeping isn't the best of ideas, but I was desperate a couple times...glad it wasn't enough times to where she sleeps with one eye open...

MchaelS I didn't mean to steal your thread. I hope Elaine's suggestion or my modification to it helps you...

I forgot to ask but do you trim the dew claw too?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

You can readily trim back to where the bottom of the nail clearly starts forming a point and is empty. The quick does grow out but only so far as the solid part of the nail. It's pretty easy to trim way back to that part right away.

Get rid of your nail clipper. A dremel is much faster and way less chance of hitting the quick badly. Always have styptic handy, no matter how good you get at this.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

MichaelS, I read on this site that you should gradually get the dog used to the trimmers and the process. This worked for me. The first few times I did not attempt to cut the nails but just let the dog sniff the trimmer and gave her treats when she did. I put the trimmer on the ground with a few treats on it, and let her eat them off the trimmer. I sat with her, relaxed, and gently touched the trimmer to her feet and nose, and gave her treats when she relaxed and sniffed it. Basically, we desensitized her to it.

When it came time for trimming (about the third session of this) I clipped one claw quickly and not deep at all, to avoid any chance of quicking her, but to get her used to the motion and the "click" sound. She got a treat and praise when that happened. I put that treat on the ground between her legs so she had to focus on getting the treat and not what I was doing. In short order I was able to progress to the other claws. We remained relaxed throughout the process. The key, as with most training, is showing dog clearly what is expected, in a calm, non-threatening, but commanding way.

If you dog is older and has developed a "thing" about this that may make it harder. But I think that defusing his fear of the trimmer is the first step, and making it fun for him removes his anxiety.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> I forgot to ask but do you trim the dew claw too?


Yes.


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## MchaelS (Jul 3, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> We'll get there  I'm still a klutz at it-still a bit awkward and concerned about cutting too far down so I'd rather take a little extra time than to hurt her. Plus it's been so long since I've trimmed her nails and I've read somewhere that if you don't trim them often the quick (sp?) goes further down? Not sure if this is true...Can you actually see the quick?
> 
> Yea I agree sneaking up on her to cut her nails while she was sleeping isn't the best of ideas, but I was desperate a couple times...glad it wasn't enough times to where she sleeps with one eye open...
> 
> ...


Hey no problem, sometimes you can learn a lot if someone hijacks things and it gets a good exchange going. As it is this was very educational. One thing I have to know, what is a prong? You put a prong on and then were able to trim the nails? Really? Cool! 

Trying to acclimate the dog to the nail trimming never worked. Zeke is just too smart for his britches. Will definitely take this tac with my new GSD puppy tho. I've tried being assertive and that didn't work too good either. If I got him to stay in one place, Zeke would keep jerking the paw I was trying to work on around so that I was afraid I'd cause him injury.

Dremel? Dogs actually sit still when those things start up? Are these the special Dremels especially for nail trimming that are quiet or something?

You guys are awsome. Thanks.
Mike


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

MchaelS said:


> Hey no problem, sometimes you can learn a lot if someone hijacks things and it gets a good exchange going. As it is this was very educational. One thing I have to know, what is a prong? You put a prong on and then were able to trim the nails? Really? Cool!
> 
> Trying to acclimate the dog to the nail trimming never worked. Zeke is just too smart for his britches. Will definitely take this tac with my new GSD puppy tho. I've tried being assertive and that didn't work too good either. If I got him to stay in one place, Zeke would keep jerking the paw I was trying to work on around so that I was afraid I'd cause him injury.
> 
> ...


A prong is a type of collar used to train heel and loose leash walking...try googling it  it is somewhat controversial. I don't think it should be used per say to trim nails but I got creative as I was at my wits end trying to trim her nails.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I use a dremmel too. LOVE LOVE LOVE it. I started out with a kong of peanut butter when I brought pup home. At a certain age, I think he might've started to react once--I immediately said NO and finished the dremmel fast. He's been fine ever since. I think he actually looks forward to it now!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

MchaelS said:


> Hey no problem, sometimes you can learn a lot if someone hijacks things and it gets a good exchange going. As it is this was very educational. One thing I have to know, what is a prong? You put a prong on and then were able to trim the nails? Really? Cool!
> 
> Trying to acclimate the dog to the nail trimming never worked. Zeke is just too smart for his britches. Will definitely take this tac with my new GSD puppy tho. I've tried being assertive and that didn't work too good either. If I got him to stay in one place, Zeke would keep jerking the paw I was trying to work on around so that I was afraid I'd cause him injury.
> 
> ...


Acclimating almost never works and just leads to more frustration and trust issues with your dog. Training your dog to accept toe trimming always works and leads to a happy dog and owner. 

Why were you allowing your dog to wiggle around like that? Correct him! Being wishywashy like that isn't assertive and isn't going to give your dog any sort of confidence in you either.

Prong collars give harsh corrections which is why they are so easy to use. Do not use them on baby puppies.

It works much better to use two people when teaching baby puppies about toe trimming. I can do it, but wouldn't recommend it for anyone that isn't an expert at this. If you get a puppy, I can walk you through how to do it properly from the beginning so you don't end up with a problem that you have to fix later.

There's nothing special about a dremel - standard hardware store version - and they are noisy. Again back to expecting your dog to hold still and making them do it. Letting them freak out about it is again wishywashy and not good training. There's no reason your dog can't handle the noise; they use it as an excuse to get out of toe trimming and can be quite the drama queens when needed.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Get your dog good and tired before you start and it will be easier. The last time I didn't, because my guy had been so good about it (using the dremel) that I was lulled into thinking he'd gotten over the protesting he did with the clippers. Whoop, he got me, lol. I ended up having to straddle him like a horse to get it done. Never again!


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Blanketback said:


> Get your dog good and tired before you start and it will be easier. The last time I didn't, because my guy had been so good about it (using the dremel) that I was lulled into thinking he'd gotten over the protesting he did with the clippers. Whoop, he got me, lol. I ended up having to straddle him like a horse to get it done. Never again!


This is why you correct your dog with a leash and collar for not holding still. Having to ride him like a bucking bronko isn't safe and can cause lasting issues. You don't want to have to physically restrain him yourself, that's the dog's job to hold still.

When correcting a dog that already has a problem with toe trimming, there is some physical restraint being done, which is lessened as soon as the dog begins to relax, so they are rewarded for what you want them to do.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol, I only had to straddle him - thankfully he wasn't into the bucking, he just wouldn't stay still in one spot. But I'm such an idiot for not tiring him out first, because after I exercise him, he just lays there and lets me trim away. Dumb dumb dumb.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Have you ever worked with horses?

How I do it with one that fights clipping is to use a slip lead (or you could use a prong) up high and tight just behind their ears, high on the neck/throat. Snub tie the leash up a good foot higher than their head at its highest point to a solid post such as a fence post. Fence on one side, dogs boddy in the middle longways against the fence, and your body on the other side. This allows for minimal to no movement on the dogs part. They can't go backwards or forwards due to the leash length, will be less inclined to fight it for more than a few seconds since it's snubbed high and tight on their neck, and you can then trim away. 

I trim dogs feet like a clean horses hooves, as in that's how I position myself. I face the tail, fold the front paws up so pad is facing the sky, and trim. The back feet, I stretch out a little behind them in a natural motion for the dog, and trim with pad facing the sky. 

If you are concerned about aggression while doing this, i'd personally muzzle the dog. You can get a cheap mesh muzzle for under $10 at most major petstores (petco for example sells them) and petco here also started selling plastic basket style muzzles which is nice.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

Outside of Elaine's comments / suggestions - which are OUTSTANDING ... I can only add that it might be a bit easier if you do this after the dog has had a HUGE play time ... where your dog is tired. 

I have a friend who adopted a rottie and when she went to trim her nails, the rottie growled at her so she backed off. She tried again two days later, the growling intensifed ... she backed off, then called me. Her dog's not aggressive, she's quite docile, so I wasn't too concerned about helping my friend out. 

I told her to come over AFTER the dog had been run and was tired, then called my friend who's a whizz with a dremel. 

We had her lying on the floor in the kitchen, my friend turned the dremel on, let her sniff it and then she ran the handle of the dremel over her paws / legs for a couple of seconds and then she moved towards the paw. The rottie growled. I simply raised my voice a bit and told her to knock it off. She tried to pull her paw away, and I said again, knock it off, you're not going to win. 

Suddenly, there's this HUGE SIGH of WHATEVER, and she simply laid there and let us finish the job ... Took about 5 minutes to do all four paws and we were done. (OK, my friend was done, I was simply the ref and enforcer LOL)

It might be easier to have a second person there for the first couple of times you do this, just to keep the dog in place, and to tell the dog to knock it off.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Rerun said:


> ...(or you could use a prong) up high and tight just behind their ears, high on the neck/throat.


Prong is what I used for trimming nails. I corrected her (a slight jerk and release which she understands as a correction--nothing harsh). She'd lay back down and we'd attempt the next nail. It's funny how she looked away as if looking away would somehow make it all go away...

I guess my question is, is it ok to use a prong during nail trimming? I've tried being creative with the use of a prong in the past and have been chastised for it (which is ok because all I'm trying to do is understand when its use is appropriate and when it's not-for example, inappropriate for recall training or LAT :c yikes!).It worked well for us this time but will it cause problems later on? Will she grow accustomed to it and fight more or simply ignore the correction?


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Yes, it actually does. This is the one case where compulsion is necessary. Your dog has absolutely no say in getting her toes done. Period. This carries over to everything you do with your dog. Your dog should never, ever tell you what you can or can't do. What if she's hurt and in pain? You still have to be able to handle her without her fighting or biting you and this is part of teaching her to let you do whatever you want with her and her letting you.


When you say, "what if she's hurt and in pain...you still have to be able to handle her without her fighting...". Does trimming nails build a type of bond where they can learn to trust you in this type of situation? Or is that reaching?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Worth the price of subscribing or google and see if you can find a similar article:
Force-Free Nail Trimming Techniques for Your Dog - Whole Dog Journal Article 

Like this one - similar but not as easy to follow: Peaceable Paws

My last foster was 44# of drive! She is a great dog - some kind of field lab, GSD, Border Collie mix or something. Like a wild animal when I got her. For months, it would take 4 people to cut her nails. The techs said you need to do something with her, this is starting to not work anymore. 

So I started the whole thing using the clicker - because she loved the clicker - and did a desensitization thing with me touching her foot briefly, click, treat. You would need to just charge the clicker by clicking and treating like 20 times or so so that the dog learns that click = treat and I would use a really high value but very small (pea sized) treat. So like tiny pieces of cheese or meat. 

Anyway - I did the toe touch/foot touch and click/treat as we'd sit relaxing. I'd do maybe 5 at a time so it didn't annoy her (might need to be less at first - just 1), starting with just a quick touch, then hand on the foot, then hold the foot - I also tried to teach her paw at the same time - the whole time, click treat, and then did one nail, quit. Worked up to one foot, and then all. Also when she would start to jerk her paw, I'd jerk her paw along with her so that she got tired of doing it and wanted to stop, oppositional type thing. 

But it worked and worked well. She was adopted 2 weeks ago and I know I handed off a dog that is able to be handled better, more efficiently, more safely and this will also carry over because she has learned that touch is okay. I just got a text last night saying how much she was loving being brushed (also not the case when she got here - bucking bronco).  

Also just as an aside to this - my Nina, the black GSD in my avatar, came to me at age 8. She was a biter when stressed, and the first time I went to trim her nails, she tried to tag me. She was a foster, I decided to try the vet office for nail trims. First time, big restraint, big bite. Next time, "thinky" vet, slow, careful, no restraint, no force, conversation and nail trim and she was fine, so she would see him for trims. This was a dog not used to being handled and started out with the big orange bite sticker all over her chart. In the 3.5 years I had her, she learned to love brushing and grooming. When she got sick at the end, she was staying at a vet hospital, strange place, trying to get a diagnosis, and they allowed her to stay out of a kennel, in the procedure room, next to their desk, on a water mattress. They were able to do anything with her, did tons of tests and procedures, without me, with strangers. So not forcing her did not hurt her chances for being cared for, and I believe, helped her to have more chances for care as she was sick. 

Just another way to look at things.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

It's good to have a different take on things, to think about the relationship you're building with your dog. I think it really depends on what you're like as a person too. Different personalities will approach things differently.

I started playing 'restaint' games with my puppy when he was younger, just a take-off of wrestling, very short sessions of friendly pinning while playing. I think this helped me, because when he's getting his glands expressed my vet told me that he relaxes when I "squish" him - hold him tightly in one spot. I don't know what he'd be like if the techs were doing it, but he's very good about just standing there while the gross procedure gets done.

So for me, it's been very valuable to have my dog accustomed to restraining. I personally don't want conflict when doing the nails, I want my dog to resign himself to whatever I'm subjecting him to. He doesn't have to like it, but he does have to tolerate it.


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

Anyone have a video of one of their dremel sessions? Sounds like a great idea.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> When you say, "what if she's hurt and in pain...you still have to be able to handle her without her fighting...". Does trimming nails build a type of bond where they can learn to trust you in this type of situation? Or is that reaching?


Your dog learns that even if she doesn't like something you are doing, she has to let you and do it without fighting. It is also a sort of trust thing because you are doing something she is sure is going to kill her and yet it doesn't, so the trust builds that what you are doing isn't going to hurt her no matter how afraid she is.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't have a camera, but I'm sure my sessions (with my tired puppy, lmao) would be the same as anyone else's - the dog is lying down while you work on a paw, and it looks like they're enjoying a manicure - pedicure, sorry! If someone does record their session, can you please have an open magazine next to your dog, so it looks even more salon-like? Thanks!!


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

Blanketback said:


> I don't have a camera, but I'm sure my sessions (with my tired puppy, lmao) would be the same as anyone else's - the dog is lying down while you work on a paw, and it looks like they're enjoying a manicure - pedicure, sorry! If someone does record their session, can you please have an open magazine next to your dog, so it looks even more salon-like? Thanks!!


Hmmm.. sounds reasonably easy. But I look at my dremel and see a million little attachments.. is there a preferred mani-pedi bit?


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

The little band of sandpaper. Don't use the solid block ones, they'll burn the nail. I'm using the medium grit. I also have the wand attachment piece, which makes things easier.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

MchaelS said:


> Okay, has anyone developed a method to trim the nails of a GSD that WILL NOT ALLOW IT?


Sorry- I have not read this thread in entirety. But yes, I have developed a method for clipping nails on a dog that won't allow it. I even video'd it. Enjoy.






[EDIT]- My method written out looks more/less like this (copy/pasted from somewhere else so I don't have to retype it):

Such an important issue to tackle young!! I can tell you from my own experience with my dog though- it isn't a lost cause. Here's what I did. We're not 100% yet, but I can more/less trim my dog's nails without too much issue.

1) At least twice a day for at least a week, grab a paw and give a treat.
2) After that, at least twice a day for at least a week, grab a paw and massage a toe/nail a bit, and then give a treat.
3) After that, at least twice a day for at least a week, grab a paw, massage a toe/nail, and tap the toe with your nail clippers- give a treat.
4) After that, at least twice a day for at least a week, tap the toes, open the clippers, put on the nail, and pause (very light pressure on the clippers!) for a few milliseconds- give treats.
5) Finally- move to clipping only one nail a day- and put all nails on a rotation.

A clicker will help tremendously to "mark" the behavior you desire- which is acceptance of your invasion. Biggest key is to watch your dog's reaction. Don't push it- go SLOW. There is no rush at all. Heck- if you can't cut them now, the there is nothing lost from going slow... Find the highest value treats you can get like raw or cooked chicken or steak, cheese, marshmallows, carrots, store bought treats, etc, etc.

The key to success is to break the act of clipping the nails into the smallest pieces possible so that you can BUILD the value of getting the nails clipped. If the dog is pulling away at any part, then you have to take a step back, use higher value treats, and slow down. No rush- keep it fun!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks for posting your video Willy - I did enjoy it. What a happy girl, she's enjoying the limelight too, lol.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

It was a two persons job until I learned from my trainer how to make it 1 person. Almost like what Elaine said. I add in high value treats. Dremel, treat. Dremel, treat. No dremeling, no treat, correction. 

I used to do the treat, touch dog paws, etc. That never improved. I believe in doing whatever works for you and the dog together. No one size fits all method.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I also believe in doing whatever works. That said, I can't imagine adding compulsion in clipping a dog's nails. The dog is already freaked out and now you're going to start yanking on their collar? No thanks- not my cup of tea. My dog was just as difficult to cut her nails. I developed a plan that addressed her issues, and built up to full clipping. I told my dog what she was doing right and rewarded her for it. Correcting a freaked out dog...? Man- no thanks. I don't even understand how one could logically think that "helps" the dog get over clipping issues. I'm glad you found something that works for you though!


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## MchaelS (Jul 3, 2011)

Man I love this forum! The number of responses and the quality of such is outstanding, thank you.

I am going to revisit the reward, touch the paw strategy. I think I was just too impatient before and didn't give it enough time. We underestimate the intelligence of our four legged kids, I guess. Think I will break each part, (paw treat, nail treat, clippers treat) into a three week period with a week going for each part. Think that would be good or should it be longer for a GSD who is already wary of tricks?

Mike


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

FrankieC said:


> Hmmm.. sounds reasonably easy. But I look at my dremel and see a million little attachments.. is there a preferred mani-pedi bit?


Complete instructions here: http://content.breederoo.com/users/sandstormrr/files/DoberDawn-how-to-dremel-nails.pdf


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I think that's a good decision, but obviously I think that since that's what I did. 

In R+ training, the general rule of thumb is that you will not raise criteria until your dog can successfully complete the current behavior at least 80% of the time. Once you get at least an 80% success rate, THEN you can raise criteria.

People RUSH positive reinforcement training all the time and then claim it doesn't work. That's not to say that it has to take forever, but the entire point is to reach a point where the behavior is learned. Advancing prior to that point will generally be futile.

I think that if you trained each behavior with three sessions a day that were five mins or less each for a week- you'd likely be in very good shape indeed. But watch your dog and decide for yourself when you should advance. 80% success rate is required for advancement.

Oh- and I just can't stress enough-- who cares how long it takes??? At this point you're not able to cut the nails anyway. So what's the loss in going a few more weeks? TAKE YOUR TIME, there' really no reason to rush. Break down the behavior chain into small achievable parts and work through each one. You'll be fine.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

wildo said:


> I also believe in doing whatever works. That said, I can't imagine adding compulsion in clipping a dog's nails. The dog is already freaked out and now you're going to start yanking on their collar? No thanks- not my cup of tea. My dog was just as difficult to cut her nails. I developed a plan that addressed her issues, and built up to full clipping. I told my dog what she was doing right and rewarded her for it. Correcting a freaked out dog...? Man- no thanks. I don't even understand how one could logically think that "helps" the dog get over clipping issues. I'm glad you found something that works for you though!


Logically, it makes perfect sense and it works extremely well as the freaked out thing is almost always created by the owner and not the dog. Once you convince the dog that that behavior will no longer be tolerated, they aren't freaked out anymore. Amazing how it just goes away.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Elaine said:


> ...as the freaked out thing is almost always created by the owner and not the dog.


Why not put the prong collar on the owner then, if that's the source of the issue...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

We struggled with trimming Cassidy's nails for YEARS, she would immediately yank her paw away if you so much as touched it. I followed the Doberdawn desensitization instructions, and it took me ONE WEEK to get her to lay down calmly while I dremeled all four feet. I wouldn't have believed it possible, and when I first brought home the dremel my husband said "she'll never let you near her with that". Proved him wrong.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm always surprised that dogs don't have that much of an issue with the noise of a dremel.


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