# Will young GSDs "grip" other dogs the way they would sheep?



## matthewm11 (Oct 18, 2011)

I found the fascinating website German Shepherd Herding which gives a great description of the kind of herding GSDs have traditionally done in continental Europe. I had only ever really seen border collies fetching and gathering on small sheep farms so had always assumed that this is what all dog herding was. I had never heard of or seen dogs doing boundary work with giant flocks of sheep on public pasteurs and didnt realize this was the traditional style of shepherding seen in mainland Europe for centuries.

One of the articles from the website describes the way a GSD will "grip" a sheep that crosses the boundary, putting its mouth around the sheep's neck and growling. I found this enlightening because I have seen my dog do something similar to smaller dogs. I am not talking about wrestling dogs grabbing each other by the scruff, but my dog gripping a dog by the neck unprevoked, and always accompanied by a growling sound and always letting go very quickly. It looks and sounds very aggressive but have never heard the victim "yelp" in pain and my dog will not follow up with any other aggressive overtures. Its always on much smaller dogs. 

Am I reading too much into this habit by assuming it is a function of a GSDs herding instinct? I assumed a young dog with no access to sheep might relieve this instinct on other dogs or possibly this is way young GSDs "practise" (consciencely or unconsciencely) herding techniques. Its not unusual to see other herding breeds in suburban environents as companion animals manifest herding behaviors in strange ways, like a border collie "herding" inanimate objects. If it is this I won't worry much about it but if it is something else and possibly a sign of dog aggression I'd like to address it.


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## Harley's dad (Apr 28, 2012)

I don't know very much about this stuff and I'm probably wrong but, maybe at least this will draw some responses from other people for you. I think there is a bit of a stretch in trying to compare a border collie to a gsd as far as hearding instincts go. Border collies are consistantly used for herding cattle (sheep too I'd imagine) all across the U.S. and their herding instincts even on a dog that isn't directly decended from working stock is still going to be fairly strong. GSD's on the other hand, while there are still some herding lines out there, are generally much farther removed from their herding ancestors. Now keep in mind this is all just me guessing and theorizing but, I would say that odds are that is something other than herding instinct. Either way, it's probably best to discourage it. You don't want your dog thinking it's acceptable to grab small dogs by the neck.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I don't think the "grabbing the neck and growling" is necessarily a herding behavior. I have watched a lot of dogs play (and work) over the years, and that behavior is not limited to GSDs in particular, or herding breeds in general. My Pug is the worst grab the neck and growl dog I have ever seen.

I have worked one of my GSDs on sheep, he has his jr. herding dog title from the AHBA. Gripping is when a dog puts any part of their mouth on any part of the sheep. You see it most often on rumps and flanks. Border Collies do it, GSDs do it, Corgis do it. All herding dogs do it at one time or another. Excessive gripping will cause a dog to DQ, but some/light gripping is a sign of a dog that committed to getting the job done. Tanner was DQ'd for excessive gripping once, and one of those grips was to the sheep's neck. Of course, he hit the sheep so hard they both ended up rolling butt over teakettle, so it wasn't just the location of the grip that caused that DQ!

Tanner, my herding GSD, is a WGSL and comes from generations of schutzhund dogs. Very, very far removed from the herding roots of the breed. And yet his instinct was there from day one. All we needed to do was fine tune it, and link the behaviors to the commands. 

GSDs are called loose eyed, up-right herders. They don't have the hard eye, that intent and locked on glare that a Border Collie has when they work. They don't slink around, low to the ground like a Border Collie. I asked an AKC herding judge once what other breeds made up the loose eyed, up-right herders and she said that every breed except the BC was considered up-right and loose eyed. I am not sure if that is true or not, but in thinking about I realized that the BC is the only breed that works like that. You can't compare the two breeds at all, since their entire style of work is different. It isn't because the BC is closer to their working roots, it is because their styles are different.

I encourage anyone with a herding breed to get out there and try it. It is a ton of fun (until you get knocked over the first time), and very addictive. I wish I could still do it, but Tanner just can't handle being around so many other dogs at the same time.
Sheilah


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Halo does it to Keefer all the time, lol! She's been doing it since she was big enough to reach his neck, and she's been dragging him around ever since. She doesn't do it to strange dogs, though, and it's just how she plays with him. Fortunately, he's VERY patient!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here she's just a wee thing, and already trying to drag him around by the neck:


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