# ? for those who foster



## moei (Sep 28, 2007)

Have any of you experienced a situation where a dog refuses to eat after they leave your house and go to their forever home? As in completely refuse to eat, so that they are literally starving to death - because they are no longer with you? 

I am so devastated about Mona, who was with me for 9 days and yes, I pampered her, like I do all my fosters







and then sent her to what was to be a wonderful forever home. She does not eat there and yes, most dogs take time to settle down. But to absolutely refuse to eat?!!? even burgers and chicken? and then die in 6 days!?!?! What happened to basic instincts?!? So emotional that she would not eat at all?!? Heartbroken?

I am just not able to process this - couldn't sleep and yeah, now I cannot eat - somehow I feel like I let her down. Another human who let her down


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Absolutely not, moei. I had a foster who was with me for a couple of years who was extremely attached to me, I have had highly emotional fosters, and all were able to eat despite the changes. We all get these dogs from the south who are so sickly, spayed and neutered and vaccinated while HW+, all sorts of things, and they eat. Coming from their temp fosters, their very first good experience, thrown on a 2 day transport, they eat. You did not let her down. 

I have a dog (Mario) was neutered before 8 weeks-died on the table-came back-at the shelter vet, vaccinated, he and his sisters-all three came up on transport a week or so later, and ate the minute they got here. 

Annalise-talk about a highly emotional dog-ran away, got shot, was trapped by her foster, put on a transport in a truck with a bunch of other dogs, overnighted and TAKEN TO A MEET AND GREET (OMG), back on transport, to me, to a kennel for a couple of days, she ate there, and she ate when she came to me. 

I will say it though it is one of those hard things to say because of the thought of it but without a necropsy, there is really no way to accurately say why a dog has passed, unless a condition is known ahead of time. Do not beat yourself up over this. I am very sorry for you all, and maybe others will say oh yes, I have had a dog like this, but in all the special needs dogs that I have here and have met, they will eat. Again, I am so sorry.


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## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Mona was a stray, so there is no way now to know what her history was and if she had ingested some toxin while she was a stray or whether her organs had been damaged at some point or she had malabsorption issues or tick issues, etc. She was very thin when she was pulled as per Moei post on May 22 and that was also mentioned in Richards first post after bringing her home. Sometimes eating too much after a long starvation period can also cause it's own issues.

Then, there are some dogs that seem to fire on all cylinders, despite the condition of their bodies until they do crash. A little like anorexic humans whose organs become wasted and fail. A long coat in any breed can also hide the degree of lack of condition plus a multitude of other ills (speaking as a groomer who has seen first hand what can lie under all that hair). 

Some dogs (as in Kyah the WP) can come back from emaciation and thrive and others do not. We all see this in many of the threads in the rescue area, the survivors and miraculous turn-arounds but there are many who are not so lucky despite the dedicated attention of those who love them and try so hard to bring them back to good health.

This is a sad situation for everyone concerned but I truly doubt that Mona was heartbroken as she looked as beautiful and healthy in Richard's photos as in Moei's and was also reported as being as active.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1099203&page=2#Post1099203

The seizures Mona had could have included any of the reasons shown on the following link, some of which (such as kidney failure) could have explained her sudden lack of appetite and increased water consumption.

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Why.html

This was a tragedy but at least Mona had two loving caretakers in her final weeks. Again, hugs to you all.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Totally agree Jean! In all the bazillions of dogs I've had come through here, many of whom were so attached they had to be pried off me at their adoptions, they didn't starve themselves. Sure, maybe depressed appetite for a day or so, but nothing like this. We have also had tons of dogs who came in in extremely poor condition but went on to thrive. I'm not trying to take away whatever comfort can be found from the vet's explanation, but I feel like it doesn't really explain what happened. Like Alison, I think there was organ failure or some other more proximate cause at work here. Dogs don't simply wear down their batteries but sometimes we simply don't know what happened and I think vets feel like they need to offer some kind of explanation. I don't know if there is going to be a necropsy or not, but that is likely the only way anyone could ever really know what was really wrong.

Moei - please do not beat yourself up over this. The one thing I do know for sure is that you did not cause this to happen.


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

The vet told me what she thinks happened, so I am going to repeat as best I can what she said. The events leading up to Mona's passing began well before she was impounded on May 15, or when Moei picked her up on May 22. It did not help, having an invasive surgical procedure thrown in there, plus she may have had a tough time on the flight up, although, I saw no indication of that when I picked her up in Anchorage. It is possible, as Qyn said, that there was some sort of pre-existing medical condition, too. My mistake was not taking her to the vet, as I usually do within 2 days, to get her checked over. I am in the middle of a hectic once-a-year work period, and I had planned a vet visit as soon as it concluded. Mona did not intentionally starve herself, she just simply did not feel the need to eat right then, but she did not have the sense to slow her physical activity, which the vet told me was the biggest catalyst in this tragedy. When you took Mona for a walk, well, there was little walking, and you were not really the leader, because she would run you however far you could hold up, and she would go until she was exhausted. Throw it all together, and you have a recipe for disaster. There are just too many questions, and not enough answers. And there will never be enough answers or explanations for me.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Are they going to do a necropsy? I know it won't bring her back but it might provide at least some answers.


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

I am going to ask them to do one today.


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## MatsiRed (Dec 5, 2004)

> Quote:I am so devastated about Mona, who was with me for 9 days and yes, I pampered her, like I do all my fosters and then sent her to what was to be a wonderful forever home.


As I was reading the thread last night, I was thinking back to my last rescue, Sherman, who is posted in 'Where are they now' section. If you go into that thread, you'll see my posts concerning the adoption of an emaciated heartworm positive dog who was going to be neutered and then sent to me 1,000 miles away. I mentioned in there about my fear of guilt should something awful happen to him given his poor condition. In fact, I even backed out at one point when the shelter insisted on neutering him in his condition, but was reminded by those here that desperate times call for desperate measures. His situation was similar to yours in that Amy stepped forward and held onto him as he recovered from neutering and then sent him my way. He still made his journey 30 pounds underweight with a load of heartworms, and I still worried incessantly that he would become deathly ill from all the changes to his compromised body.

Moei, you did all the same things I and many others here have done many times over. The only difference was the outcome. If you want to blame anyone, blame nature. Regardless of the outcome, you and Richard are heroes, and guilt has no usefulness in this situation. 

I am so sorry for all the pain this is causing you, as we all know it could be any one of us in your shoes right now. You matched a desperate dog with a great man who wanted her desperately. Doesn't get much better than that. 

GUILT? Put it in a box and kick it to the curb!


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## ellen366 (Nov 2, 2007)

hi richard

i'm glad that you're going to have the necropsy done; it will give both you and moei the peace of mind that you so desperately need at this time; it's very sad and unfortunate that mona died; but, dogs are sometimes given up to shelters and rescues b/c they're sick although they don't necessarily appear ill; i'm saddened by your loss and i understand how you feel; i've lost a few of the rescues i've picked up too and it's so heartbreaking; but sometimes things are well beyond our control and are too far gone for us to fix

hang in there
ellen


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote:I am going to ask them to do one today.


Hopefully that will bring some closure. Not sure how they do it there but here, for a proper autopsy, the animals are taken to a special independent lab that is run by the University. I took one of my cats there once. He was being treated by the vet for an inner ear infection and then one day had a seizure and died on his way to the E-vet. I opted for a necropsy because I was worried about poison or something that might also threaten the health of my other animals. I am very glad I did it because it revealed a cause of death and of his other symptoms that we would never have known otherwise and that did bring me some peace.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I suspect that there was some underlying health condition that caused Mona's death. I am glad that you are going to do a necropsy because the vet is just guessing (an educated guess but certainly just a guess) and it's the only way you'll know what really happened. 

I transported Rafi 7 hours in the back of the truck with a nasty dog (Chama) and he barked hysterically and threw up all of the way. He had recently been neutered, was very underweight and had mange. He was distraught at even losing sight of his foster dad (who he was with for 2 months) but despite all of that he did not stop eating.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: flyinghayden When you took Mona for a walk, well, there was little walking, and you were not really the leader, because she would run you however far you could hold up, and she would go until she was exhausted. Throw it all together, and you have a recipe for disaster. There are just too many questions, and not enough answers. And there will never be enough answers or explanations for me.


Richard - I am so so sorry for your loss....I am sure you are devastated....but from seeing Mona's photos and this description, she does not sound like a dog who is so stressed she collapses....You were doing a wonderful thing giving Mona a loving home and family! I would bet money there was some underlying medical issue that no one knew about, something not obvious even on a wellness physical, that caused her death...Take comfort from knowing that Mona was happy with you and the pack...and that you gave her everything you could in the short time you were together!

Lee


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

I want to be very clear that I have no doubt that Moei and Richard did everything right for Mona. 



> Originally Posted By: moei She does not eat there and yes, most dogs take time to settle down. But to absolutely refuse to eat?!!? even burgers and chicken?


This is what happened when we adopted Wolf. Wolf is quite emotional. He had been in a great foster home for about nine months (I think). He had a six hour drive to his new home with us and promptly refused to eat. He would not eat food he ate in his foster home. After a three day fast, he was hungry enough to eat canned Nutro and polish sausage (!). One important difference was that he was in excellent shape when he came to us, so he could afford a few days without food. 

Regarding Mona's death, the necroscopy will tell of course, but if her sodium got really low she would lose consciousness and die. I am guessing that from the electrolyte imbalance. It's not that "batteries run out". It's that the cells can't communicate-the nervous system wiring doesn't work.

In any case, Mona's death is a tragic loss.

MJ


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I have fostered more dogs than I care to count, and no, they don't starve themselves when they leave me. I think that when a dog does not eat to the extent Richard described, there must be an underlying cause. The stress of moving may have contributed to some symptoms showing up. 

We rescued an 8yo Malinois 2years ago, one of the 12 dogs surrendered by a local breeder. She looked OK healthwise, senior pre-op bloodwork was done prior to spay, all normal. The spay was uneventful and the next day she went to a foster home where she was doing great and the dad fell in love with her. A week later she stopped eating and started womiting two days later. Many tests were run, and she deteriorated quickly to the point of suffering in spite of the supportive measures in the ER. He liver values were off the chart (these were the same values that were ok a week earlier). Within days she deteriorated to the point that we had to put her to sleep. Necropsy showed advanced lymphosarcoma, all her organs where seriously invaded by the cancer. We were told that the surgery probably accelerated the prograession of the cancer, she would have lived a little longer if she had not been spayed at that time.
We were as devastated as you are.

I also don't quite believe this explanation and I hope the necropsy will give you some answers and peace of mind. We normally don't do the necropsy, but the concern in this case was whether it was a contagious disease that could be transmitted to the resident dogs.

Please don't beat yourself up, unfortunately sometimes these dogs get care too late. We can only do our best to help them and both of you certainly did.


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## flyinghayden (Oct 7, 2005)

I just heard from the vet. It looks like it was some kind of cancer in her liver. There was severe muscle atrophy that was not malnutrition related, the vet says everything points to cancer. I am a little puzzled that it would have been missed when she being spayed. She said that Mona was about 45 pounds underweight, and that is not natural, and that if Mona was eating for 9 days that she was with Moei, there would have been a noticeble weight gain, and we saw very little if any. It all sounds so hollow right now, but I guess it is going to have to do for me. How can a dog look so healthy, and be dying?? I just don't get it. My vet is leaving for a month, but I am going to get with her today, and have her show me all the results when they complete the necropsy.


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## weber1b (Nov 30, 2008)

If dogs are like humans, cancer in the liver is rarely primary. The liver very often picks up cancer cells from another part of the body, so it may have been even more widespread than that.

Certainly would indicate that there was nothing you were likley to be able to do. I hope you and Moei can take comfort in the fact you all made her last days good days.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Also, cancer steals the bodies nutrition. The last few weeks of Neke's life we were feeding her almost double her normal amount but she kept losing weight.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

> Quote:How can a dog look so healthy, and be dying??


Richard, the same way it can also happen in people. Three weeks before my dad died (from a very aggressive cancer), he was selling real estate. We've said the same thing over and over. How could it take him so quickly. I'm grateful that he didn't suffer from it, as I'm glad Mona will not have to suffer either. At least you have somewhat of an answer, although I know that doesn't help your hurting heart right now. To me, it explains why she wasn't able to gain the weight. Cancer is so nasty and it robs the body of all healthiness. I'm still so grateful that she was with you, even though it's almost too much for you to bear. You've certainly had more than your share of heartbreak. 

moei - I just wanted to say thank you for everything you did to help Richard and Mona. I was so focused on Richard and his loss early, that I forgot how much of a part you played in Mona's last days being happy ones, knowing she was loved by you both.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Our dog whose story I described looked OK too when I picked her up after the spay. Bloodwork was OK before the spay and off the charts 10 days later. They did not notice that she was full of cancer when they spayed her.

In Mona's case the spay could have accelerated the decline, this is what happened to our dog.

It sounds like she was very happy during those last days and that she did not suffer long. This should give some comfort to both of you.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

Exactly the point... If she'd had cancer in the lungs there would have been more obvious symptoms such as coughing, breathing problems. The Liver rids the body of toxins, like a filter... and when it's invaded by cancer it can't do it's job. So Mona didn't exactly die "from the cancer" but rather from the toxic effects of her liver no longer being able to work. Liver toxicity can happen very very rapidly, with little or no symptoms. Her refusal to eat in retrospect was probably due to increasing toxic reactions in her body rather than from anything that was done. Even taking her to the vet upon arrival wouldn't have necessarily showed anything unless they happened to run a Liver scan, which on a younger dog wouldn't be routine.









Give yourselves a big hug for trying... and let her go. ((hugs to ya both))

Jill


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## moei (Sep 28, 2007)

That evil C word - that explains a lot. 

Thank you everyone for your support. This has been so devastatingly traumatic.







to you Richard 








baby girl.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

I am very sorry Richard and Moei for your tremendous loss.

As far as how can a dog that looks so healthy decline so quickly....

We lost our Shelby to liver cancer in 2006. It happened in a blur. One day I noticed that she wasn't eating much and she looked thinner. I took her to the vet the next day to get the awful diagnosis that she had metastatic cancer. The ultrasound showed a small lesion on her liver and her bladder. It had already metasticized to her lungs. We rushed her up to the oncology dept. at the University of Wisconsin two days later and they confirmed that there was no treatment available. They couldn't say for sure whether it started in her liver or bladder. We had no choice but to let her go 10 days after diagnosis. It is still very difficult to come to grips with how quickly it all happened, but the oncologist said that is how liver cancer progresses. Shelby had her yearly check-up two months earlier, was seemingly healthy one day, and then gone forever the next week. And, yes, she did stop eating rather abruptly.

I know how difficult comfort must be to find at a time like this, but, hopefully, my experiences will help you understand what seems so incomprehensible.

Take care.


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