# Rude Owners & Rude Dogs



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

This is not directed at anyone I just didn't want to hijack another person’s thread on an experience I had the other day.
I took Jaina my 7 month well socialized GSD to a self-serve dog wash along with my roommate and her two dogs.
I groomed out Jaina first and hooked her to the wall, which they have conveniently set up right next to the drying tables so that you can groom multiple dogs and your dog will be out of the way of yourself and others.
While I was working on my roommate’s dog a guy had come in earlier with a huge GSD a good 30+ bigger then Jaina. As he finished he handed the dog over to what I think was his dad, he could barely handle the dog when they walked by us his dog saw Jaina and jerked the guys dad nearly over and it started "liping" at her face. I yelled NO! And the guy was like "oh he's friendly" I shook my head at him and his reply was "oh, she’s not?" I replied “No, I don't like strange dogs greeting my dog”. He walked away. I have no issues with being rude when someone else was being rude in the first place. What if Jaina wasn't friendly and decided to take the dogs face off, she had no out and was cornered. I don't understand why some people just assume that, "well my dog is friendly, so your dog should be friendly."

Not all people like all people why should dogs?


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

which is exactly why i dont ever allow my kids, myself or my dogs to approach and greet another dog without owner permission. its not only a safety thing its a courtesy thing. if someone shows and interest in Shasta or Shelby, i will let them know they can say hi but i also make it clear the dogs HAVE to be sitting before they can be petted or greeted or anything and the minute the dog stands, i ask the person to stop until they sit again. Its a training thing. the dogs need to know they sit for attention. Riley however is iffy. At home, he's really friendly but in public, i have to keep an eye on him. he's good with people most of the time as long as he's not in the car (which is recent) but he's iffy on dogs. Plus a dog getting 'lippy' with one of mine, is cause for concern for me.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

Yeah he had no business just bringing his obnoxious dog over to yours without asking you. What a jerk.

I took Rem to the barn where I board my horses yesterday for the first time. The annoying owner released his completely obnoxious, no manners at all untrained Golden Ret. on us without so much as a warning, and it wasn't leashed. The dog hurled itself at me, jumped on me with it's paws on my shoulders, slobbered me, and generally ticked me off completely. Rem growled and barked at him, and the guy didn't get why. So what if Rem doesn't like your totally annoying dog? I don't either, so we're on the same page. Maybe he'd like it better if it learned some respect.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Larien said:


> Yeah he had no business just bringing his obnoxious dog over to yours without asking you. What a jerk.


the way the original post reads, the guy was drug over by his dog. He didn't purposely bring him over. 



Larien said:


> I took Rem to the barn where I board my horses yesterday for the first time. The annoying owner released his completely obnoxious, no manners at all untrained Golden Ret. on us without so much as a warning, and it wasn't leashed. The dog hurled itself at me, jumped on me with it's paws on my shoulders, slobbered me, and generally ticked me off completely. Rem growled and barked at him, and the guy didn't get why. So what if Rem doesn't like your totally annoying dog? I don't either, so we're on the same page. Maybe he'd like it better if it learned some respect.


I wouldn't bring my dog to the stables without asking and I was always careful about the other dogs that were around. If someone else brought a dog that I was unsure of then I put my dog in the car. If I don't own the property then I have no business being upset because the dog that lives there isn't liked by my dog. Maybe that dog would like it better if yours wasn't there.

I see alot of lines being crossed by GSD owners here that are the same lines being complained about. Just because our dogs are trained doesn't give us special treatment at someone else's property. You did, however, have every right to ask him to get his dog off of you as you are a client of his, but your dog has no rights there.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I did ask, and nowhere did I say I didn't ask first. He said I could bring him when I told him I had a puppy - it was HIS idea! I pay him a LOT f money every month, and I have a contract saying I can bring my dog(s) whenever I please, and also that I have other rights there too as a paying boarder. My dog didn't do anything wrong, if I was capable of growling, I'd have growled at the dog, too. It had no business jumping on me. It actually ripped my jacket, he's lucky I don't make him pay for it.

Regardless, it's not really about my dog, it's about ME - after I put Remi back in the car, the golden still continued to jump on me, bother me, scratch me without ANY correction from the owner. If Rem hadn't even BEEN there, the dog still would have done it because it's a 1 yr. old untrained animal. Another boarder mentioned to me that he also does the same thing to her, and she has no dogs. His property or not, he owns a boarding business with paying clients - his dog needs to behave, or I'll leave.

And I stand by what I said - the guy's a jerk. If you take your dog to a place like that, it shouldn't be the type that drags you around. He should train his dog better - what if it had approached a mean dog, and his dog got hurt because of his neglectfulness?


----------



## tierra nuestra (Sep 8, 2010)

Larien said:


> I did ask, and nowhere did I say I didn't ask first. He said I could bring him when I told him I had a puppy - it was HIS idea! I pay him a LOT f money every month, and I have a contract saying I can bring my dog(s) whenever I please, and also that I have other rights there too as a paying boarder. My dog didn't do anything wrong, if I was capable of growling, I'd have growled at the dog, too. It had no business jumping on me. It actually ripped my jacket, he's lucky I don't make him pay for it.
> 
> Regardless, it's not really about my dog, it's about ME - after I put Remi back in the car, the golden still continued to jump on me, bother me, scratch me without ANY correction from the owner. If Rem hadn't even BEEN there, the dog still would have done it because it's a 1 yr. old untrained animal. Another boarder mentioned to me that he also does the same thing to her, and she has no dogs. His property or not, he owns a boarding business with paying clients - his dog needs to behave, or I'll leave.
> 
> And I stand by what I said - the guy's a jerk. If you take your dog to a place like that, it shouldn't be the type that drags you around. He should train his dog better - what if it had approached a mean dog, and his dog got hurt because of his neglectfulness?


any respectable boarding est. will not allow dogs or even children to come on to the property due to liability and risk to horses.any place that has a dog out of control to the point where he rips your jacket?i would be rethinking the saftey of my horse and the type of place you have it boarded in.Dogs that are untrained running wild with unknown horses is a huge mess waiting to happen eg.dog chasing horses through fences ect yea,i'd question the type of facility you are paying alot for.


----------



## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

The only dogs at my horse boarding facility are the ones that live there. One of the workers has an older puppy - lab/something mix. He is really sweet, but doesn't have very good manners. I think we all are pretty tolerant of him. My daughter lets him get in her truck. It is a long way from the barn to his house, so sometimes she drives him home. LOL! Our horse is also tolerant of the dog. He has actually taken her lead rope in his mouth and led her around. She will let him know when she has had enough. All in all, I would say that most of us dog lovers take the opportunity to work with "Pepe" while we are at the farm. It isn't his fault he has no manners. His owner is a nice young guy, who probably lacks training skills. In the long run, helping Pepe helps us all.


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

You are so right and I am guilty of approaching people with my dog because I know she is sound and can handle bad behavior by other dogs. I will learn from your opinion and be more considerate. Thank you


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am really rude. We don't approach other people's dogs even with owner permission. 

I have been known to literally run away from a person who is insisting "he wants to say Hi".


Suzanne Clothier's article...
http://www.harmonydogpark.ca/docs/He-just-wants-to-say-hi%20rude%20dogs.pdf


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You didn't say you did ask, or that had a signed contract allowing it, either so there is no need to overly defensive when you give part of a story minus some pretty important facts. 

And I said that it wasn't ok for the dog to jump on you. If the dog is not under control at a riding stable there can be pretty serious consequences and I would go find somewhere else to board my horse.





Larien said:


> I did ask, and nowhere did I say I didn't ask first. He said I could bring him when I told him I had a puppy - it was HIS idea! I pay him a LOT f money every month, and I have a contract saying I can bring my dog(s) whenever I please, and also that I have other rights there too as a paying boarder. My dog didn't do anything wrong, if I was capable of growling, I'd have growled at the dog, too. It had no business jumping on me. It actually ripped my jacket, he's lucky I don't make him pay for it.
> 
> Regardless, it's not really about my dog, it's about ME - after I put Remi back in the car, the golden still continued to jump on me, bother me, scratch me without ANY correction from the owner. If Rem hadn't even BEEN there, the dog still would have done it because it's a 1 yr. old untrained animal. Another boarder mentioned to me that he also does the same thing to her, and she has no dogs. His property or not, he owns a boarding business with paying clients - his dog needs to behave, or I'll leave.
> 
> And I stand by what I said - the guy's a jerk. If you take your dog to a place like that, it shouldn't be the type that drags you around. He should train his dog better - what if it had approached a mean dog, and his dog got hurt because of his neglectfulness?


----------



## King&Skylar (Jun 3, 2010)

this kind of stuff happens all the time with me & Skylar. I have her in heel focusing on me passing dogs, or a sit focusing on me because she wants to greet everyone so for the sanity/safety of everyone involved, i keep away incase the other dogs are mean. BUT, while i'm doing this, people let _their_ little things that skylar could step on and kill come running over, barking, etc. even people with big dogs let them come over! It drives me bonkers, but i've come to expect it so i just socialize skylar constantly and do everything i can to make sure everyone stays safe, because we all know the other owner won't take responsibility for anything!! even though skylar is friendly i always ask if we can visit, but most of the time i don't even ask because the other dog doesn't even look close to approachable haha. Oh, and when skylar excited barks she's automatically labeled aggressive  but when little dogs lunge and actually aggressively bark, it's cute. people make no sense.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I know, I am concerned about the dog even more today, because the owner texted me apologizing, and then said the dog goes in the pasture to play with my minis - at no time did I say this was okay, and at no time was I asked if it was. If the dog bites my horse, or my horse kicks the dog, it'll be a MESS.

I don't have any other options, until I move - he's the cheapest place around, and the only one willing to let my horses outside all day. Eveyrone else is full or too expensive for me. Right now I pay 900/month - I had been paying 1200. My last barn not only had dogs loose around, but also two very mean fully horned goats that knocked over and ate my grain almost every day, which is why I left. My current stable is small, it's not some huge boarding facility, just this guy's backyard operation, we're all friends and it's a casual environment. But he puts so much effort into his horses, why he can't train a dog is beyond me - and he has two infants, I can just picture that crazy beast mowing them down in the house, makes me shudder! But that's the kind of area this is, everyone has dogs, everyone has horses, and everyone has the two together at shows, barns, trail rides, etc.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread with my own stupid saga, lol. As for rude dogs/owners, I witnessed the following today, quite amusing:

I had Rem outside practicing recall on a 20ft lead - I live on a golf course that backs up to my yard, and even though they are NOT ALLOWED per the rules of this development, people have been walking dogs and skiing on it every day. It's annoying because you can hear every dog on the street freaking out when people go by, my dogs bark and it's frustrating. I call and complain to the pro shop, but it's winter, no one is there and by the time they arrive, they skiiers are gone.

So anyway, this woman was walking her really annoying dog off leash, and it was running all about, Rem and I just stood there watching - then these two skiers came by and her dog ran over to them, tripped one of them, and barked in circles around them, being totally rude. The owner kept screaming and calling it, but it ignored her. The dog followed the skiers all the way down the fairway, and wouldn't listen to it's owner at all, Rem and I just watched, I was laughing, xD. It's bad enough she was walking her dog off leash where she isn't supposed to be unless she's golfing (the club put out a newsletter last month expressly saying that the golf course is private property and is off limits to everyone but paid club members golfing) but it's not even a trained or well behaved dog, bothering people and it could have hurt one of them!


----------



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

It's good to hear other's stories 
My roommate also added people who have their dogs on those extended leads in vet offices. She had placed herself in the far corner of the vet office with herself in between her dog and other clients (Maggie is a standard poodle who does not like other dogs almost dog aggressive but very much under control). She said she was watching some lady at the desk check out and her dog was all over the place at the end of its extend lead, well of course it started towards my friend and Maggie. My friend told the lady that she needs to get her dog, of course what was her respones, you guessed "oh she's friendly" my friend replied "mines not, she will rip your dogs face off" LOL the lady freaked out and reeled her dog in. Hopefully it was a learning lesson for her. They should not allow those kind of leashes in businesses I understand for walks but even then a lot of people who use them have very little control over their dog.

They shouldn't have dogs running around Horse Boarding places let alone playing with your mini's I'd be sooo mad.

I've totally tuned tail from someone who was coming up to greet! Sometimes I'm just not in the mood and very few people are willing to work with you and your rules that you have set for your dog.

The guy might have just as well walked over with his dog they walked so close to us on a very wide walk way and when his father lost control the guy just stood there while his dog was "greeting" Jaina. I feel it was purposefully done like the guy was just looking at an angle to start a conversation(he had walked his dog in himself earlier and him up tight because he knew his dog didn't have manners), well it back fired.


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Last summer I was out biking with my dog when I came around a corner only to see three loose goldens with their people. Those dogs took one look at us and charged snarling and barking. I had to leap off my bike, drag my dog behind me, and start kicking. The owners just stood there and watched! 

I started screaming at them to get their dogs and they got all mad that I couldn't appreciate how friendly the dogs were. Mind you, my dog was on leash and we were on the sidewalk and had been minding our own business; the people had decided that the golf course was some sort of dog park. Those idiots had the nerve to ask me if my dog was mean and what was my problem as I'm doing my level best to keep their vicious dogs from getting at my dog.

They finally corralled their dogs and walked off into the golf course, still off leash yelling at me that I shouldn't have my mean dog out in public! Let's see, their dogs were out of control, off leash, attacked me and my dog, and I'm the one with the problem. If I hadn't had the sense to stop, get off the bike, hang my dog behind me, and started kicking, there would have been a huge dog fight and blood all around. Morons!!!!!!!


----------



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

Samba said:


> I am really rude. We don't approach other people's dogs even with owner permission.
> 
> I have been known to literally run away from a person who is insisting "he wants to say Hi".
> 
> ...


Awesome Article!


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Last summer I was out biking with my dog when I came around a corner only to see three loose goldens with their people. Those dogs took one look at us and charged snarling and barking. I had to leap off my bike, drag my dog behind me, and start kicking. The owners just stood there and watched!
> 
> I started screaming at them to get their dogs and they got all mad that I couldn't appreciate how friendly the dogs were. Mind you, my dog was on leash and we were on the sidewalk and had been minding our own business; the people had decided that the golf course was some sort of dog park. Those idiots had the nerve to ask me if my dog was mean and what was my problem as I'm doing my level best to keep their vicious dogs from getting at my dog.
> 
> They finally corralled their dogs and walked off into the golf course, still off leash yelling at me that I shouldn't have my mean dog out in public! Let's see, their dogs were out of control, off leash, attacked me and my dog, and I'm the one with the problem. If I hadn't had the sense to stop, get off the bike, hang my dog behind me, and started kicking, there would have been a huge dog fight and blood all around. Morons!!!!!!!


 
wow that sounds like a bad situation all around. I dont blame you for being thoroughly POed. Isnt there a leash rule on golf courses in general? I mean not just like a leash law but dont most courses only allow a 4ft lead instead of the 6ft? did you report them?!


----------



## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

I can say I know how frustrating it is when someone has a stupid mangly dog that is supposily "friendly" and it's snapping at my dog for some reason. Then the owner laughs about it! Oh yes, I know..... *slap slap!*

Jackson doesn't particularly like other dogs. He gets nervous and is unsure about a new dog's intentions and he gets on edge. I would NEVER go and say it's "ok" for him to apporach another dog on a leash especially knowing how he gets nervous, etc. I would assume others would know their dog as well, but maybe not so much...


----------



## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

I cannot tell you how much I hate when people let their dogs run right up to us when we are hiking (we always recall our dogs and leash them when we see other people, dogs or no dogs, approaching) and they yell "Oh, they're friendly, they just want to say hi!" 
Regen is reactive and these situations are never okay for her. 
Here I have to turn and walk the other way because people can't understand why I might not want for my dog to have to endure a frantic and effusive (usually rude) greeting by their dog who she is never going to see again.
Even worse is when the person who forced the "meeting" gets all offended when Regen hackles and barks and lunges at their little fluffy-poo. Roar! There is a reason we don't meet dogs unless we already know and trust the owner!


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

KZoppa said:


> wow that sounds like a bad situation all around. I dont blame you for being thoroughly POed. Isnt there a leash rule on golf courses in general? I mean not just like a leash law but dont most courses only allow a 4ft lead instead of the 6ft? did you report them?!


Yes, there's a leash law and the dogs should have been on leash. The golf course doesn't allow dogs on the property either. Stupid people think only of themselves and not the havoc they are causing around them. My dog could have been mangled, killed, or permanently mentally damaged, and I could have been badly bitten too, and they just don't care.

No cell phone, so there was nothing I could do about it.


----------



## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Yes, there's a leash law and the dogs should have been on leash. The golf course doesn't allow dogs on the property either. Stupid people think only of themselves and not the havoc they are causing around them. My dog could have been mangled, killed, or permanently mentally damaged, and I could have been badly bitten too, and they just don't care.
> 
> No cell phone, so there was nothing I could do about it.


 
oh i would have been livid. its too bad you didnt have a cell at the time.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

It's awful when people treat golf courses like parks, they even walk their dogs on mine during golf season! Neighbor kids play soccer on it behind my house, driving my dogs nuts, and they harass them by "barking" at them and taunting them. I got them in trouble with the pro shop, though. But golf courses are not places to walk dogs. I wish people would just drive their dogs to parks instead. And keep them ON LEASH if they won't heel 100% of the time!


----------



## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

A fellow student in my advanced obedience class had a GSD about the same age & size as my Echo. The handler was having trouble with fear aggression with her dog -- any time another dog or child got close, her dog would start to stress (pant, freeze, avoid, etc). The owner, despite being instructed many times about the warning signs, was clueless and more than once her dog ended up lashing out at other dogs. She once came up to me while Echo was on a down stay and asked if our dogs could "play together because they were both German Shepherds". I said, simply "No, thanks". She stared at me for a minute then walked away. Rude? I don't know...it wasn't my place to lecture her on restraining or controlling her dog, but it most certainly my place to keep my dog protected. When I tell Echo "Down" and "Stay", she needs to trust that she can follow my commands without fear of being attacked or harmed. Seems only fair to me.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm a rude owner. I like my space so step back


----------



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> I'm a rude owner. I like my space so step back


?????

I like my space too but I don't consider myself a Rude Owner. Rude Owners are the ones who allow their "oh, he's friendly" dog harass our dogs without asking first before putting their and our dogs in harms way.

Are you saying your one of these people or did you miss read?


----------



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

EchoGSD said:


> A fellow student in my advanced obedience class had a GSD about the same age & size as my Echo. The handler was having trouble with fear aggression with her dog -- any time another dog or child got close, her dog would start to stress (pant, freeze, avoid, etc). The owner, despite being instructed many times about the warning signs, was clueless and more than once her dog ended up lashing out at other dogs. She once came up to me while Echo was on a down stay and asked if our dogs could "play together because they were both German Shepherds". I said, simply "No, thanks". She stared at me for a minute then walked away. Rude? I don't know...it wasn't my place to lecture her on restraining or controlling her dog, but it most certainly my place to keep my dog protected. When I tell Echo "Down" and "Stay", she needs to trust that she can follow my commands without fear of being attacked or harmed. Seems only fair to me.


Yup!  Our dogs come first over someone else feelings, I'm sorry thats just how I am too.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

KLCecil said:


> ?????
> 
> I like my space too but I don't consider myself a Rude Owner. Rude Owners are the ones who allow their "oh, he's friendly" dog harass our dogs without asking first before putting their and our dogs in harms way.
> 
> Are you saying your one of these people or did you miss read?


I'm rude to the ignorant people. 

I like the people who ask. Otherwise I'm just an ugly person all around


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

And it's always better to be safe than sued, I like to say, lol.


----------



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> I'm rude to the ignorant people.
> 
> I like the people who ask. Otherwise I'm just an ugly person all around


Ahh ok, I've been "rude" to people to but then they deserved it so I don't consider it rude LOL.


----------



## KLCecil (Jul 1, 2010)

larien said:


> and it's always better to be safe than sued, i like to say, lol. :d


yup!


----------



## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

adamdude04 said:


> I'm a rude owner. I like my space so step back


As I stated above I approach others but slowly and respectfully. If they are not interested I back off immediately. I can also be 'rude' if approached by an overly 'friendly' dog, we just turn around and walk away.
My reason for approaching is to find opportunities for dogs to play, but I don't push it and I don't like being pushed.


----------



## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

One time I was walking my mom's female GSD/Husky mix, she is very dominant and doesn't like dogs she does not know (the only dog she likes is my GSD), the neighbors big male Rottweiler came running up to us and I'm yelling at the guy to come get his dog and he's standing there chatting with his buddies!  He says his dog just wants to play and that it's friendly and I yelled "Well she is not friendly and she will attack him if he gets too close to her" I tried to pick her up (she weighs almost 70 pounds) but the Rott jumped up at me and knocked me over! I started screaming at him to come get his  dog before I beat the **** out of it. He got all pissy with me and told me not to threaten his dog!!!!! 

I ripped my pant leg and scratched my knee pretty good. WHAT A JERK! :angryfire:


----------



## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> One time I was walking my mom's female GSD/Husky mix, she is very dominant and doesn't like dogs she does not know (the only dog she likes is my GSD), the neighbors big male Rottweiler came running up to us and I'm yelling at the guy to come get his dog and he's standing there chatting with his buddies!  He says his dog just wants to play and that it's friendly and I yelled "Well she is not friendly and she will attack him if he gets too close to her" I tried to pick her up (she weighs almost 70 pounds) but the Rott jumped up at me and knocked me over! I started screaming at him to come get his  dog before I beat the **** out of it. *He got all pissy with me and told me not to threaten his dog!!!!! *
> I ripped my pant leg and scratched my knee pretty good. WHAT A JERK! :angryfire:


He should have imagined this news story:

"In other news, a Rottweiler attacked a lady who was walking her dog today..."


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Rudeness is whatever we perceive to be. We're all guilty of being rude at some time. Why worry about it...


----------



## DeeMcB (Nov 28, 2010)

Samba said:


> I am really rude. We don't approach other people's dogs even with owner permission.
> 
> I have been known to literally run away from a person who is insisting "he wants to say Hi".
> 
> ...


I just read Clothier's article and I have to say that this makes me want to NEVER LEAVE THE HOUSE with my dog again! The ratio of dog owners to people who understand normal dog development & behavior is too low. It's like walking in to a land mine every time you go for a walk.

Come to think of it, I feel the same way about child rearing.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Due to flooding, I couldn't get Djibouti in the class I wanted until he was ~9mo old. They enrolled a HUGE # of dogs, including some that were people & dog aggressive, b/c it was the 1st class following the 2008 floods. (They had 5 or 6 experienced people working the class instead of the usual 1 or 2). Djibouti & I struggled with the 'personal space' rule as he had more puppy exuberance than manners & was overjoyed at finding himself among soooo many other dogs. It was a valuable experience for both of us.

One thing which myself, other owners & the instructors noted was even the worst of the DA dogs never aggressed at him...No growling, tensing, hackling or shying away. It might have been b/c he was a youngster. (Because he was so big, most people didn't take him for a puppy, but I'd expect most dogs to know the difference.) I'm not sure. To this day, I've never seen another dog aggress at him even slightly, but perhaps the dogs we see out & about don't aggress at anyone else either.

I'm fine with other dogs approaching & sniffing Djibouti largely b/c he doesn't mind. In fact he relishes an opportunity to exchange greetings & give them his _Kingly but Benevolent_ eye. (He thinks verrrry highly of himself) I permit other dogs to approach Sam b/c she doesn't mind, but I keep it short&sweet as she's indifferent rather than enthusiastic.

IMO, a well socialized dog doesn't need to enjoy or interact with other dogs, people & pets, but they do need to be at least tolerant & preferably relaxed & comfortable. Large, powerful breeds, such as GSDs, should be confident & comfortable in almost all situations, if they have the correct temperament. They should be unfazed by any size of dog, from vocal yappy snappys to Irish Wolfhounds. Nor should they act inappropriate or be nervous around people, regardless of age, dress, race or physical impairment. They should show poise & equanimity in the face of screaming infants, wobbly toddlers, 3 yr old temper tantrums, obnoxious adolescents, surly teens, as well as those with canes, walkers, wheelchairs, umbrellas, carts & casts.

I welcome people asking about Djibouti or GSD in general b/c it's an excellent opportunity to disseminate breed info. The biggest favor I did the Siberian Husky breed was successfully convincing people that they reallly didn't want one despite Cochise's big, friendly smile & Newmanesque baby blues. 

GSD are a breeze compared to Sibes, but they're still a challenging & demanding breed with BIG exercise requirements, BIG training requirements, BIG socialization needs & an almost unmatched plethora of health & temperament problems. 

With those who approach me to tell me how much they want a GSD, I always stress the importance of finding breeders who successfully produce sound, healthy, long lived dogs. Sadly, with the GSD that's a dicier proposition than with many other breeds.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm pretty rude to most people with other dogs out and about. It's like a law that if they have dogs, they're going to be ill mannered and stupid. I have punted(not enough to hurt) a few dogs in stores that owners let get to close to mine. I run away from people in stores on a daily basis. 

Just the other day, I had Frag at petsmart working on loose leash walking, auto-sits, and sit-stays. There was a group of kids there (6, 10 and 16 I would say) that were interested in him and asked a few questions. That was fine. They didn't ask to pet him and I wouldn't have let them, so I answered and continued on. Well, they followed us around for about a half hour coming very close to him and making me VERY nervous. At one point, I had him in a sit-stay in an empty isle and was about 6' away, when the boy came around the corner behind us. I watched him, and he came within about a foot of petting Frag, just staring at him. I would have undoubtedly ate him and his "guardian" out if he had. Or kicked him like I do the dogs that get too close.. >:[


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> Well, they followed us around for about a half hour coming very close to him and making me VERY nervous. At one point, I had him in a sit-stay in an empty isle and was about 6' away, when the boy came around the corner behind us. I watched him, and he came within about a foot of petting Frag, just staring at him. I would have undoubtedly ate him and his "guardian" out if he had. Or kicked him like I do the dogs that get too close.. >:[


Okay...confused. Why are you taking your dog to a public place, especially a place where you know you're going to be coming in contact with kids and other animals, if you don't want anyone to touch or look at your dog?

I'm guessing you were kidding about the kicking part (the kid in PetsMart) but just in case... Your dog is on a leash. Something approaches him and you kick it away. Doesn't this send a message to the dog that bad things happens when people or other animals come near him? I can see doing it if something is threatening your dog but otherwise this sounds wrong.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> Okay...confused. Why are you taking your dog to a public place, especially a place where you know you're going to be coming in contact with kids and other animals, if you don't want anyone to touch or look at your dog?


I have no problem with people looking at my dog or touching him after they ask. BUT, alas, no one asks, and they get a rude welcome.

(plus, I'm really not there for him to get pets, I'm there to buy him stuff and to train him, but if someone is being courteous and asking, they will be granted permission)



> I'm guessing you were kidding about the kicking part (the kid in PetsMart) but just in case... Your dog is on a leash. Something approaches him and you kick it away. Doesn't this send a message to the dog that bad things happens when people or other animals come near him? I can see doing it if something is threatening your dog but otherwise this sounds wrong.


Nothing bad happens to my dog when other things come near him, bad things happen to the person or dog that comes near. (I was kidding about kicking the kid, but not about getting upset with him and possibly rude) I don't just kick dogs that are near my dog, but none are ever just near, owners let all the slack out of their leash or have dogs on flexis that run right up to us, in which case Frag is put in an emergency down stay and I kick/push the dog away until the owner gets enough sense to collect their animal. IME, (and in most of the posters here's experience) owners do not listen when you say to get their dog away from yours and my dog is already recovering from reactivity for me not controlling situations like this. If I let dogs run up to him willy-nilly, he will start becoming reactive again for me not protecting him from such events. Soo, I do.

(hope I cleared myself up)


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I'm guessing you were kidding about the kicking part (the kid in PetsMart) but just in case... Your dog is on a leash. Something approaches him and you kick it away. Doesn't this send a message to the dog that bad things happens when people or other animals come near him? I can see doing it if something is threatening your dog but otherwise this sounds wrong.


I'm with Whiteshepherds you may be sending Frag the wrong message without even realizing you are doing it. If you are getting annoyed or frustrated or mad every time a person or dog "rudely" comes up to you and Frag, then he is going to learn that people and dogs approaching gets you upset and may start reacting badly.

I don't like people or dogs approaching me and my dogs either which is a result of having a couple badly reactive fosters. So, I am proactive and very aware of my surroundings. Rarely does anyone get the opportunity to sneak up on me and if they approach despite me telling them not to, I quickly put myself between my dog and them and tell them to please back up in a nice tone. I stay calm and in control and act like it's no big deal so the dogs learn that it's not.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> I'm with Whiteshepherds you may be sending Frag the wrong message without even realizing you are doing it. If you are getting annoyed or frustrated or mad every time a person or dog "rudely" comes up to you and Frag, then he is going to learn that people and dogs approaching gets you upset and may start reacting badly.
> 
> I don't like people or dogs approaching me and my dogs either which is a result of having a couple badly reactive fosters. So, I am proactive and very aware of my surroundings. Rarely does anyone get the opportunity to sneak up on me and if they approach despite me telling them not to, I quickly put myself between my dog and them and tell them to please back up in a nice tone. I stay calm and in control and act like it's no big deal so the dogs learn that it's not.


I'm fairly certain I'm doing the opposite, since his reactivity is improving 10 fold...

It USED to be that he would get yanked away every time a dog came near. Now he is laying down politely and the dog ISN'T attack him because I'm pushing it away. Do you think it would be more conducive to let the dog run up to his face and stand there with a shocked dog while the owners do nothing?

I have asked numerous people to keep their pets close, and they do not. I cannot rely on a stranger to keep my dog safe. I don't act like it's a big deal, I just skip the middle man and acting nice.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm glad his reactivity is improving and that your method is working.

Not sure what middle man you are referring to in your post  I didn't mention a middle man.

It sounds like we are doing similiar things only I don't let the other dogs get close enough that I have to push them away and I don't believe it's ok to put my hands on another person's dog unless they are a threat to mine or my dog's safety.

I guess I'd just rather diffuse the situatin with kindness and without getting physical. Much better for my stress and anxiety levels which is much better for the puppers.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

So far no one has asked me to pet Remi. I think because of his color and his reserved nature, people are afraid of him. But that's how I prefer it.

As we speak, Rem is barking his fool head off because yet ANOTHER skier is on the golf course with a dog off leash. She does not have poop bags, either, so I can imagine what the course will look like in spring. Ugh. SO tired of this, it's all day, every day now.


----------



## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Larien said:


> As we speak, Rem is barking his fool head off because yet ANOTHER skier is on the golf course with a dog off leash. She does not have poop bags, either, so I can imagine what the course will look like in spring. Ugh. SO tired of this, it's all day, every day now.


Does the CC know people are doing this? I bet they'd be very thankful if you informed them so they can let the police know people are trespassing.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I have. I have informed them dozens of times, as I have previously mentioned. But it is winter - the pro shop is vacant. By the time the management firm sends someone out, hours have gone by and the people are long gone. They sent out a newsletter last month, demanding people stay off the course, as it is private property, and they reminded everyone that it is not acceptable to walk your dog on it, ride bikes, ski, or do ANYTHING unless you are a paid member golfing. But obviously, it has gone ignored. So they know about it, it's up to them to call the police. But I'm fed up beyond belief, I have chronic headaches every single day, and barking dogs make it infinitely worse.


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

gsdraven said:


> I'm glad his reactivity is improving and that your method is working.
> 
> Not sure what middle man you are referring to in your post  I didn't mention a middle man.
> 
> ...


Oh, by middle man, I meant I don't even ask people to keep their dogs away, because they just come running up with them screaming that "they're friendly!" so I keep the dog away until the owner realizes I REALLY don't want the dog in my dog's face and removes him. 

I do generally try to avoid dogs, but I do get cornered and trapped by flexi-leads often in areas between dogs and where I can't escape, so I have no other options. I tried being nice about it for a long time and no one listened, so I don't even bother anymore. If it's working for you though, be thankful!


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

Not 10 minutes after I made my last post, ANOTHER skier went RIGHT NEXT TO my property line at a snail's pace - the dogs went_ ballistic_. At this point I was so completely fed up that I turned them all loose outside and screamed, "IT'S NOT A PARK!" at the top of my lungs. I'm rude and I've now completely lost it, lol.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Larien said:


> Not 10 minutes after I made my last post, ANOTHER skier went RIGHT NEXT TO my property line at a snail's pace - the dogs went_ ballistic_. At this point I was so completely fed up that I turned them all loose outside and screamed, "IT'S NOT A PARK!" at the top of my lungs. I'm rude and I've now completely lost it, lol.


Just wondering.. What happens if one of your dogs bite this person? (assuming they jump/get through the fence or you don't even have a fence,,)


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Larien said:


> Not 10 minutes after I made my last post, ANOTHER skier went RIGHT NEXT TO my property line at a snail's pace - the dogs went_ ballistic_. At this point I was so completely fed up that I turned them all loose outside and screamed, "IT'S NOT A PARK!" at the top of my lungs. I'm rude and I've now completely lost it, lol.


Lmao. Please tell me you have a fenced yard? I can only imagine the shocked look on the skier's face if he had seen multiple dogs come charging at him with no fence visible.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

First of all, adam, I'm not an idiot - I have an invisible fence, and all of my dogs are completely trained to NEVER cross that line. So well that none of them have the collars on. They will not and do not even think about leaving the yard. I watched, they remained behind the line the entire time. In all my years with these dogs and the fence, not one of them has EVER gone through it. Not even once.

But anyway yeah, the skier didn't know there was an invisible fence - so I'm sure it scared him, and I hope it did - he is not allowed to be there, and I'm tired of listening to barking dogs while they ignore the rules and do as they please. So maybe he'll learn to ski at, oh, I dunno, A SKI PLACE.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Larien said:


> First of all, adam, *I'm not an idiot* - I have an invisible fence, *and all of my dogs are completely trained to NEVER cross that line.* So well that none of them have the collars on. They will not and do not even think about leaving the yard. I watched, they remained behind the line the entire time. In all my years with these dogs and the fence, not one of them has EVER gone through it. Not even once.
> 
> But anyway yeah, the skier didn't know there was an invisible fence - so I'm sure it scared him, and I hope it did - he is not allowed to be there, and I'm tired of listening to barking dogs while they ignore the rules and do as they please. So maybe he'll learn to ski at, oh, I dunno, A SKI PLACE.


sorry but..sound like one? 

I like the "completely trained" part  I guess no one ever told you "it only takes one time" 

Anywho seems irresponsible. Shame we have folks who are willing to risk the lives of others. One thing to scare, and one thing to rely on an invisible fence and trust

And to be fully honest, if it was me, and (I would never tease a dog) all the sudden a dog or two charge me, I will shoot to kill. Unless you have signs up and markers stating where this invisible fence boundary is, boy does it look deadly on the persons point of view. And if i saw a sign and markers i wouldnt shoot at first but i would deff have my guard up. Maybe you should think about the risks next time.


----------



## SchDDR (Dec 29, 2010)

While I'll concede that with proper training, an invisible fence can be a good containment system for your dogs... it does nothing to keep other dogs out.



Larien said:


> As we speak, Rem is barking his fool head off because yet ANOTHER skier is on the golf course with a *dog off leash.*


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

And what if you happen to lose the electricity? Unless you have it on an immediate battery backup with a generator set to come on also.

And 100% or Never or Always are words that I don't think I would ever use with a dog's behavior.

just a thought or two.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I do not have a choice, SchDDR - My subdivision does not allow fences. And people just aren't allowed to have dogs there, let alone off leash. So I don't have any other options, unfortunately.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

Adam - Are you serious with this bull? See below. 20 years, several dogs, no escapes. Ever. Golfers are right by the yard constantly. They do not bother them, they do not go after them, they are not aggressive. My dogs are allowed to bark while they're in their own yard. They have not bitten anyone, ever, and the skier is NOT ALLOWED TO BE ON THE FREAKING GOLF COURSE. He's lucky I didn't phone the police! By the way, you shoot my dog when it's in it's staying in it's own yard, and you're illegally trespassing on private property - YOU go to jail. Sorry.

Codmaster - My dogs don't even have the collars on, so it doesn't matter. I have had this fence in my yard for 20 years, since my parents moved here. We have owned several dogs in that time. None of them have EVER left the yard. It just doesn't happen. I trained them very well, and besides, none of them WANT to leave the yard, trust me. They barked at that skier, and then retreated, they would never have approached him, they never approach golfers.

But again, I am not allowed to have an actual fence. And seriously guys, all I did was let my dogs out. Like I do all day, every day. They just stood there, barking. It's not the mega huge deal you're making it out to be. Geeze.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

RubyTuesday said:


> Due to flooding, I couldn't get Djibouti in the class I wanted until he was ~9mo old. They enrolled a HUGE # of dogs, including some that were people & dog aggressive, b/c it was the 1st class following the 2008 floods. (They had 5 or 6 experienced people working the class instead of the usual 1 or 2). Djibouti & I struggled with the 'personal space' rule as he had more puppy exuberance than manners & was overjoyed at finding himself among soooo many other dogs. It was a valuable experience for both of us.
> 
> One thing which myself, other owners & the instructors noted was even the worst of the DA dogs never aggressed at him...No growling, tensing, hackling or shying away. It might have been b/c he was a youngster. (Because he was so big, most people didn't take him for a puppy, but I'd expect most dogs to know the difference.) I'm not sure. To this day, I've never seen another dog aggress at him even slightly, but perhaps the dogs we see out & about don't aggress at anyone else either.
> 
> ...


 
Very well said! GSD's should be very tolerant and aloof.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Larien said:


> Adam - Are you serious with this bull? See below. 20 years, several dogs, no escapes. Ever. Golfers are right by the yard constantly. They do not bother them, they do not go after them, they are not aggressive. My dogs are allowed to bark while they're in their own yard. They have not bitten anyone, ever, and the skier is NOT ALLOWED TO BE ON THE FREAKING GOLF COURSE. He's lucky I didn't phone the police! By the way, you shoot my dog when it's in it's staying in it's own yard, and you're illegally trespassing on private property - YOU go to jail. Sorry.
> 
> Codmaster - My dogs don't even have the collars on, so it doesn't matter. I have had this fence in my yard for 20 years, since my parents moved here. We have owned several dogs in that time. None of them have EVER left the yard. It just doesn't happen. I trained them very well, and besides, none of them WANT to leave the yard, trust me. They barked at that skier, and then retreated, they would never have approached him, they never approach golfers.
> 
> But again, I am not allowed to have an actual fence. And seriously guys, all I did was let my dogs out. Like I do all day, every day. They just stood there, barking. It's not the mega huge deal you're making it out to be. Geeze.


Would you consider that your dogs are better trained than say the top obedience GSD in the country? If so, then congrats to you and the dogs!

But consider that even that level of trained dog doesn't get a perfect score every trial!

Or as we say sometimes, "The dog is only human!" and not 100% perfect.

And consider what might happen if they did overrun the fence - do you think that their barking and carrying on would stop if they did get up next to those people? Or would they continue on and maybe bite?

Only something to think about if you consider your dogs just a tad less than perfectly behaved?


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

What will you have me do? Erect a fence? I CAN'T. If I could, I'd build one. I am not legally allowed. Move? I CAN'T.

I have 5 dogs in this house. Three are mine. The GSD is always on a leash. The Corgi does not like to go very far out into the yard, since he hated being shocked early on. The Pomeranian is weary of people - he runs from them. My mom's dogs, a toy poodle mix and a chihuahua, do not leave the deck when people are on the course behind our yards - they hate people because my mother didn't socialize them, they run to the door and want to go indoors.

And yes, the barking would stop. They wouldn't bite, they wouldn't even get that close - they have big mouths, but only for barking and when push comes to shove, they turn and run.

Everyone in this development has dogs. And they all have invisible fences. And there has not been any incident involving dogs escaping and biting people. I'd know, my dad was on the board.

At no time did I say my dogs were "perfectly trained." I said they were WELL trained, by me AND the invisible fence people to not cross that line. They don't even TRY, they don't want to, don't you think I know my own dogs and situation better than you do?

I let my dogs outside. Again, like I do every day all day and have done for 20 years. They stay in the yard. They bark at golfers. They do their business. They come inside. That's about it. It's not this mega-disaster in waiting like you want it to be.

Every single day on this course in spring and summer and fall, HUNDREDS of golfers go by, right next to the yard. My dogs will bark at them sometimes, and mostly, they couldn't care less. The skiers bother them because they're out of place and strange looking, with poles and long feet, sliding along the ground. Anyway, 20 years, hundreds of golfers, several dogs, no incidents to speak of whatsoever. Not even so much as a growl has ever taken place. They have been close to golfers, inches away, and they are either indifferent, or retreat like wussies. This is normal life here. Normal, every day life. It's not a dog bite horror movie.

And yet, you want me to move, it seems, or put up an illegal fence just so some skier doesn't get barked at. They bark. They're DOGS. They're in their yard. The issue here is rude dog owners bringing their dogs to a place they shouldn't be, bothering my dogs who ARE where they should be, and bothering me because I don't want the course I live on ruined by pooping mutts and skis shredding the fairway.

OR maybe my insane aggressive chihuahua will grow a pair and hurl herself through the fence, and bite everyone in her path, and I'll get sued, and she'll be put down, and it'll be AWFUL!

Or maybe life will go on as normal and mundane as it always has.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Larien said:


> Adam - Are you serious with this bull? See below. *20 years, several dogs, no escapes*. Ever. *Golfers are right by the yard constantly*. They do not bother them, they do not go after them, they are not aggressive. My dogs are allowed to bark while they're in their own yard. They have not bitten anyone, ever, *and the skier is NOT ALLOWED TO BE ON THE FREAKING GOLF COURSE*.* He's lucky I didn't phone the police!* *By the way, you shoot my dog when it's in it's staying in it's own yard, and you're illegally trespassing on private property - YOU go to jail. Sorry.*


 Okay.. I'll take a stab at it here for ya....

No dog is perfect. Heck read codemasters thoughts. He's right.

Cool..golfers are by the yard all the time. Apparently this skier was teasing your dogs, right? Golfers, I'm sure just there to play golf.

Okay cool. Skier not allowed on golf course. Why was he there to begin with? Lost? Fresh snow? Bored?? Think about it.. you clearly had no control over the situation.

*Called the cops? Yes you should have.* He could have been out to kill you!! :shocked: But I think calling the cops is much more responsible, mature and just flat out smarter than letting your dogs loose in hopes they don't go through your magic fence and against your very well training 

Like I said, I shoot your dog if they charge me. Do YOU have signs posted stating there is a magic fence?? Is the magic fence clearly marked to give a clear detail of the location of the magic fence line?? And don't try to take my words out of context. Seriously? Grow up. I said if not marked, how would I know they would have stayed back instead of keep going? Angry dogs are comming at me with no wall of any sort in sight. Please. Now if marked, I would put my guard up, but not shoot. Unless they crossed the marked "fence line" into my direction with agression.

And jail for tresspassing? First time is a warning. Unless property damage, or threats were made.

Anywho. Your dogs are not perfect. So first and formost, don't act like they are. They may behave well, but not perfect.

Glad we could clear this up


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Larien said:


> What will you have me do? Erect a fence? I CAN'T. If I could, I'd build one. I am not legally allowed. Move? I CAN'T.
> .


The point we're trying to get at, is it was irresponsible to just let your dogs loose on trust and thought.

We're not saying put up a fence. We're saying what you did was just uncalled for and there was better ways of handling the situation to not only be more mature about it, but also protect yourself, your animals, and the unknown (can't use the actual word, mod thinks is bad bad) person.

That's all.


----------



## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

Larien said:


> By the way, you shoot my dog when it's in it's staying in it's own yard, and you're illegally trespassing on private property - YOU go to jail. Sorry.


SHERRY DAVIS: A badge shouldn't be a free pass to kill innocent ... - Bakersfield.com

Just thought I'd show you this, btw this was a Golden, a dog that has a reputation for being a lover, what if the police did show up on the golf course one day and your dogs were out in the yard, if they ran towards the fence line barking at the cops....

Better safe thn sorry IMHO...

anyway...back to rude owners and their dogs


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

adamdude04 said:


> Okay.. I'll take a stab at it here for ya....
> 
> No dog is perfect. Heck read codemasters thoughts. He's right.
> 
> ...


I don't think she said her dogs were perfect, just well behaved.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

I never acted like they were perfect. And I find it hilarious that a BYB supporter finds ME irresponsible. Nothing you say is of any value to me. And nothing you say is going to make me put all 5 dogs on a leash every time they go outside. If you have a problem with it, I suggest you refrain from skiing behind my house, since you think my insane aggressive dogs will kill you. My dogs go outside loose in their invisibly contained yard EVERY DAY. You can get over it, or not. Getting pissy over someone else's dog and skier issue is so immature it's making me sick even discussing it with you.

Dogs aren't coming after anyone if they do not set foot out of my property line. And yes, imbecile, there IS a marker indicating where my property line starts - and a big invisible fence metal sign under a tree. Nice try. You cannot shoot a dog that is simply standing barking in it's own yard. In my opinion, letting my dogs outside off leash is the same as letting them out in a fenced yard, since they don't want or try to leave it. If you think otherwise, that's your right, but know that I don't really care. That's just how it is in this neighborhood, plain and simple. And my dogs do not charge people. So stop saying that they do.

I told people before that I called the CC's management. THEY called the police, but by the time that all happened, the skiers are gone.

Again, not once did I say my dogs were perfect, ALL I SAID was that they are well trained and have not yet ever crossed the line. That's simply the truth.

I'm done with this, I'm not hijacking this thread further. You can sit there and imagine my dogs crossing the line and mauling a trespassing skier to death all you like, I for one will sleep just fine tonight. Some random forum member's opinion does not have any significance to me. I will continue doing things as I have always done, like it or not, so you're just gonna have to move on.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Larien said:


> I never acted like they were perfect. And I find it hilarious that a BYB supporter finds ME irresponsible. Nothing you say is of any value to me. And nothing you say is going to make me put all 5 dogs on a leash every time they go outside. If you have a problem with it, I suggest you refrain from skiing behind my house, since you think my insane aggressive dogs will kill you. My dogs go outside loose in their invisibly contained yard EVERY DAY. You can get over it, or not. Getting pissy over someone else's dog and skier issue is so immature it's making me sick even discussing it with you.
> 
> Dogs aren't coming after anyone if they do not set foot out of my property line. And yes, imbecile, there IS a marker indicating where my property line starts - and a big invisible fence metal sign under a tree. Nice try. You cannot shoot a dog that is simply standing barking in it's own yard.
> 
> ...


Okay, nothing I say is of value. But others agree with me..

And again, the point is this. We don't care that you let your dogs loose. That's cool. We understand and it's common.

But based on YOUR situation: Skier was creeping up to your property line, teasing the dogs. You got fed up with it. So you let your dogs off leash to run/bark towards this skier to what, scare him off? Make him think twice?

Do YOU think that's right with what you did?? Plain and simple. Person teases dogs, they barking, you let them charge. You phsyically take them off leash to run to a person whom you don't know in an effort to scare them away.

Also the point where you said the CC called the police. Now what if your dogs were back on your porch, and the police started walking up and they charged the police, still in your property. You think they'd just giggle, or it could end worse?

Look, put your dogs in that situation, that's fine. I and others I'm sure find that reckless. And clearly you could have handled that better. *OR do you think the way you handled it was the best possible solution for both you, your pets, and the skier?*


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

You're totally wrong about the situation.

This is what happened, try and actually read it, please:

I was posting on this very thread. My dogs suddenly started barking loudly. A skier was cruising along my property line slowly. My dogs were barking at the top of their lungs, aggravating my intense headache. I opened the door, and three of them ran a little ways onto the deck, realized they were now outside with the stranger, and chickened out. They stopped in the middle of the yard (it is a very large yard) and just stood there and barked at him until he finished passing.

I did NOT take them off leash. The dogs did NOT charge him. They did NOT go to the end of the yard. I was NOT trying to scare them away.

What I was doing was simply this - the dogs were going to bark until he went away. It hurt my headache. So I put them out, so they could instead bark outside, where I couldn't hear it, but the obnoxious guy who is trespassing would have to listen to the noise instead, since he caused it. At no time was I trying to scare him - besides, if he was afraid of a poodle and a pomeranian (the GSD was NOT outside) well then he has other problems. I would never use a pomeranian to try and scare someone, might as well wear a fairy costume in a haunted house. Before he was even done going by, 2 of them were already off peeing or coming back to the door. Hardly the vicious maniacs you describe.

If a cop came in my yard, my dogs would flee to the door and beg to be let in.

Now if you honestly believe that letting dogs go outside (they were due for a potty break anyway) to bark instead of listening to them bark inside is reckless, then I guess that's what I am. Oh well. And yes, letting my own dogs outside to pee and stand and bark is something I consider just fine to do. I handled it fine.

I really don't want to argue about this. I don't like confrontation, especially online. I like this forum, a lot. And the members. Can we please not continue hijacking this thread and bashing my invisible fence, I'm getting sick of being made out to be some kind of bad dog owner, when I'm not. Nor am I irresponsible, and frankly, the accusation that I am is very hurtful to me, and I am upset. I really don't want to continue this.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"At no time did I say my dogs were "perfectly trained." I said they were WELL trained, by me AND the invisible fence people to not cross that line. "

Sorry, I thought you said something like "NEVER" which I guess I mistook for you meaning that your dogs would "NEVER" (100%, perfect, etc.) cross the line and also that there could never be a failure of the fence also. You said that the fence had been installed 20 years didn't you? Guess you never had an electrical line fail either right? Couldn't happen I suppose.

*"They don't even TRY, they don't want to, don't you think I know my own dogs and situation better than you do?"*

No, actually if you think your dogs are "NEVER" going to do something other than perfect obedience - I do know dogs (all dogs) better than you. even the most perfectly trained dog will sometimes not obey/behave perfectly!"

Anyway, enough - good luck to you and your dogs and those folks who dare to walk by your yard and have the foolishness to be scared by a dog rushing at them barking and them thinking maybe the dog will continue charging aggressively till they they bite them. They should probably just realize that there must be an invisible fence.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Larien said:


> Not 10 minutes after I made my last post, ANOTHER skier went RIGHT NEXT TO my property line at a snail's pace - *the dogs went ballistic. At this point I was so completely fed up that I turned them all loose outside and screamed, "IT'S NOT A PARK!" at the top of my lungs.* I'm rude and I've now completely lost it, lol.


.... okay. So you have 5 dogs. But you only let out 3? (3 of 5 is all?). 

You were fed up, so you let them loose outside. Okay so you didn't let em off leash, you just opened the door for em, by full knowlage letting them run loose to the suspect. 



Larien said:


> You're totally wrong about the situation.
> 
> This is what happened, try and actually read it, please:
> 
> I was posting on this very thread. My dogs suddenly started barking loudly. A skier was cruising along my property line slowly. My dogs were barking at the top of their lungs, aggravating my intense headache. I opened the door, and three of them ran a little ways onto the deck, realized they were now outside with the stranger, and chickened out. They stopped in the middle of the yard (it is a very large yard) and just stood there and barked at him until he finished passing.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

Alright fine, codmaster, my dogs will PROBABLY NOT go through the line, ugh oh, better move and lock them all up forever, someone could die! Happy now? And I said the dogs don't even wear the electric collars, they don't go near the line. Period. And the fence is always on and beeps if it goes off or is cut. And did you not notice where I mentioned both the property line marker AND the invisible fence sign?

For the last time, they didn't run up to him, they were in the middle of the yard, some 100 ft away from him. I was fine letting them out to pee and bark, because that's all they've ever done at the hundreds of golfers that pass by every day. At no time did they nor have they ever rushed, charged, or ran up to anyone aggressively.

And yeah, I only let out 3. Rem had just gone out, he's a puppy. I didn't want to put him on his leash and go out there with the barking I was trying to avoid.

And the Chihuahua was asleep in her doggie bed. She rarely goes out, only to pee, she's not active. I don't even consider her a dog, really, she's not like one.

All dogs = my dogs. Rem not included because he doesn't count, being on the leash, and I just grouped my mom's poodle in. So no - all the dogs did not go outside. I should not have said "all," it was only 3.

But whatever, you win, blah blah blah, I'm the worst most dangerous irresponsible dog owner in the world, skiers everywhere beware of my deadly hounds! Gimme a break. I'm going to bed, I'm not fighting with you two anymore, it's a waste of time, because nothing here will change.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

Anywho, back to rude owners..

I don't really know of any. But I am surprised that the dog park we go to, everyone is friendly there. If their dogs get into it, they correct em on the spot. 

I will say this though, I hate when people want to come up to my truck and pet my dog.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Larien, your dogs have the 'right' to bark on their own property. Does this mean that there's sound absorbent material surrounding your property so their barking doesn't invade others' properties? 

Around here nuisance barkers are hated even more than biters. Dogs who bite, claim 1-2 victims, & then blessedly 'disappear'. Nuisance barkers make life wretched for everyone within a 1-2 block radius for weeks, sometimes months or more. 

Much as you feel put upon by people skiing _next_ to your property, others might feel invaded by the cacophony of barking emanating across your property lines & onto their property.

Who called your dogs insane or aggressive? Who said they were going to kill anyone? Why does a question beget name calling (ie 'imbecile, byb supporter)? I don't know why you're this reactive to comments & suggestions, but I truly hope it doesn't travel down the leash.



> Or as we say sometimes, "The dog is only human!"


 Codmaster, I love that statement & will be sharing it.


----------



## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Larien is just upset and people tend to not realize what they said until later, we are all guilty of that. No, I don't think she is irresponsible for having an electric fence. Would I personally have one? No. There really was no need to jump all over her and she basically explained herself many times. The people were not allowed on the golf course, yet they still go on there. She explained herself so leave it at that.

As for rude owners, I have met a few. I was walking Tanner at night once and a lady was walking her 5 little dogs, off leash, and they were not trained. Anytime someone walked by(with or without a dog) they would go up to the person and growl at them. A few times the one of the dogs would run out in the middle of the street, this lady was completely oblivious to it and didn't seem to care. I was walking Tanner across from them and the dogs were about to run across the street at him, but didn't. Or else I would have pushed or shoved the dogs away with my feet and got in between my dog and her dogs and yelled at the lady. Haven't seen her since.


----------



## Larien (Sep 26, 2010)

There is only a rule about noise in this development after 11 pm. My dogs do not go out after 10. Plus, the neighbors have dogs that bark, and they don't stop them. Aside from today, I always stop them if they bark.

It was said many times that my dogs rushed and charged directly to the skier aggressively. That is untrue, and I don't want anyone to think it is. That just did not happen. They went into the middle of the yard, and stood, before then just walking around doing their outside business.

I admit that I snapped for a second, fed up from a day's worth of barking in the house at skiers and their loose dogs, and with a horrible headache and a fever (caught my dad's cold) let my dogs bark outside rather than in. This is not something I do all the time - when my dogs bark at golfers, I call them into the house right away, I don't let them continue it.

No one offered me a suggestion. I was told I was "thinking like an idiot" before I called anyone a name - and go and look for the post that details said BYB supporter.

So they barked outside for 2 minutes. If three people I don't know think that's wrong, so be it. But after all - I'm only human.

Thanks, Jessie - And I wouldn't have an invisible one either, but like I said, it's my only option, since we're not allowed real fences. I am moving soon and will have one there.


----------



## amaris (Jan 6, 2011)

@Larien....sorry you're getting picked on, i guess if someone isn't and hasn't been in your situation, they wouldn't know everything, i'm sure you considered as many factors as possible...

i simply posted the link cos i've read a few news stories on invisible fences and some of the more severe consequences of using it....

but back to rude owners...some of these stories are just so "far out" >.<


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

EVERYONE - PLEASE PLAY NICE! 

Thank you.

*moderator*


----------



## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Wow, Adam and Cod, you're not making any points here. Drop it. 

I would have done the same thing, Larien. My dog is well trained and will stop when I tell him to. I don't CARE what other people think, if he doesn't touch them and is in his yard, he's doing nothing wrong.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Larien said:


> Alright fine, codmaster, my dogs will PROBABLY NOT go through the line, ugh oh, better move and lock them all up forever, someone could die! Happy now? And I said the dogs don't even wear the electric collars, they don't go near the line. Period. And the fence is always on and beeps if it goes off or is cut. And did you not notice where I mentioned both the property line marker AND the invisible fence sign?
> 
> For the last time, they didn't run up to him, they were in the middle of the yard, some 100 ft away from him. I was fine letting them out to pee and bark, because that's all they've ever done at the hundreds of golfers that pass by every day. At no time did they nor have they ever rushed, charged, or ran up to anyone aggressively.
> 
> ...


Need to chill! 

Do what ever you like, claim whatever you like - IT DOESN'T MATTER.

We were just trying to remind you that most dogs, (except yours of course, now we know), are not ever 100% reliable. 

Neither are mechanical things, again except your fence of course; but it appears that you don't even need the fence to work due to your dogs stated behavior.

So good luck to you.


----------



## adamdude04 (Apr 15, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Need to chill!
> 
> Do what ever you like, claim whatever you like - IT DOESN'T MATTER.
> 
> ...


I couldn't remember if I even read that right from a few posts above. 

Any who, good points.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I would have done the same thing, Larien. My dog is well trained and will stop when I tell him to. I don't CARE what other people think, if he doesn't touch them and is in his yard, he's doing nothing wrong.


I thought your dog was reactive? Maybe your weren't really serious about letting him out, I sure hope so. The last thing you do when a reactive dog is over threshold is add to that stress.

Isn't it irresponsible to send a ramped up barking dog out into an area with no barriers if there's even the slightest chance that they may bite someone, unless your life is in danger? Annoyance isn't life threatening. 

To intentionally put a dog in a situation where it's recall will be tested for something as ridiculous as it's owner being annoyed shows a lack of good judgement. That one time your dog doesn't stop when you tell it to could be the time disaster hits. Why take the risk for something so trivial?


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Or how about teaching the dogs not to bark at everything? That seems to be the best solution as you can not 100% control everything going on outside and OFF your property.


----------

