# Use of outdoor kennels/enclosures?



## TheVintageAngel (Oct 4, 2011)

I have a 5 month old GSD...she's in the middle of obedience training and is showing improvement in many areas...but one thing that is a constant source of frustration is her "outdoor" behavior. 

We live on a jogging trial...our back yard literally backs up to a trail where everyone in the neighborhood walks their dogs and jogs, etc. We have a 3 foot high split rail fence, which as my hubby puts it, is just a "suggestion" to Jemma...she can vault over it with ease. So, because of this, she can only go out in the back yard on leash. 

Even so, while we are out there with her...if someone is jogging or walking a dog behind us...she gets amped up big time...ridge goes up, barking, jumping, straining against the leash. I'm working hard to correct it...but I'll be honest...it's not sinking in yet AT ALL. It's as if I'm not there at all when this is happening. 

The second issue of outdoor time is my children. Ages 6 and 8...they and their friends love to run, run, run out there. Jemma cannot be trusted to play with them without being a rough neck. I don't see aggression in her with them at all, but what I see is her puppy crazy self wants to run with them, herd them, jump up on them, knocking them over and scaring the crapola out of them. Spring is coming here, and I just don't think I can always have her on leash while outside with my kids...I am a mom as well as a dog owner.

So, I am curious about the idea of using an outdoor run for her while we are all out enjoying the yard. I have seen a few large ones with tarped roofs that look nice and roomy. I have my eye on the long term though...and am wondering if this would be counterproductive? Or maybe it's the right thing to do until she calms a little with age and learns her boundaries?

From my lurking here, I see that some of you seem to have these outdoor areas....any advice is, as always, much appreciated.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm no expert by any means, but I think it might be worth it to look into something like this while you work on her manners and so on, and she matures and is able to control herself a bit better. You'll probably have to make sure she gets entertained while she's in the kennel, so she doesn't feel too left out. 

Talk to your trainer about how to work on manners as far as the leash reactivity, it will sink in eventually, and you will hit on the right way to help her learn self-control. 

When I had no fence and no chance to put one in, I used a dog run for our dogs, and it was quite useful for allowing the dogs to be outside with us but not on a leash that had to be held. Of course, we only used it when we were out with them, we didn't tie them out there alone.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

What you need to start doing, is rewarding her for not being reactive at the fence. Start out with her at the fence on leash and just give treats for her looking at you. Do you use a clicker? You may need to find her comfort zone. How far away from the fence do you have to stand so she is not reactive? You will go thru a lot of treats. Get a very large package of cheap hot dogs. Cut them up into small pieces. I freeze what I am not using yet. Take her into the yard. Treat for attention and focus on you. Work on some obedience. When people go by, keep her attention on you and treat. DO NOT treat for barking and reacting. You may have to 'kinda' treat her at first to get her focused back on you either by luring or sticking the treat in her face. When you can get her to focus back on you, treat, she may turn and bark, but dont treat for that, get her to do something like 'sit' or 'down' or 'spin around' and treat for that. Eventually you can work up to her looking into the direction of the trail and not barking, looking back at you, then treat. Once she is good with the not barking and focusing back on you, move closer to the fence. You should also be able to train her not to jump on the fence or over it. I NEVER leave my dogs in my fenced yard by themselves. Its just not something I am comfortable doing.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i think you need to start training/teaching her how to
behave when in the yard. invite a lot of people to walk,
run, stand near the fence and train her. train daily and several
times a day. don't count on her settling down with age
and learning boundaries. you have to teach her everything.
when the kids are playing in the yard crate her if you're not
going to take the time to teach her how to play with the kids.
invite your family, friends, neighbors and the people passing by
to be her decoys. train everyday, several times a day.

the 3' fence is a joke. your dog could clear that without
much effort.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Putting her in an outdoor run, while you are outdoors but she can't get to you...... Is very likely going to increase her bad behavior.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

gagsd said:


> Putting her in an outdoor run, while you are outdoors but she can't get to you...... Is very likely going to increase her bad behavior.


Strongly agree with this. It's likely to cause increased frustration, which will make her even more amped up over time.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Have you had a look at any e-fences? Not sure what you have in the US but we have a Hidden Fence around our 90cm fence and it works a treat.....not saying they are fool proof but our dogs respect it.
I also agree that you being outside and her being locked up is not a good solution. She would hate that and it would be sad if you couldn't "be" with her in the sunshine.
You really just need to train her how to be around your kids. I have an 11month old GSD and a 3 year old boy and there is no way Luther would do what your pup is doing even at 5 months......you really just need to put the time in and things will get better.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Some pups are just harder than others. My Ari could always be trusted to be gentle with kids. His brother Anik.... absolutely not. Anik wasn't mean, just way too exuberant. He wore a leash around my daughter until he was able to have self-control. 
Exercise, exercise, and obedience training are key.
Good luck..... It is worth it!


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## TheVintageAngel (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the info...will try to answer the questions...

Yes, I use a clicker with Jemma. I have found it to work great for learning tricks, but not so great with obedience things...yet. Not giving up on that though. Thanks to the clicker and high value treats (tiny chunks of mozarella cheese or hot dogs) and that magical click sounds, she sits, downs, stays, rolls over, sits pretty, speaks and shakes on command, instantly...with great excitement. So I know it works, I just need to get better at using it to calm her reactivity. 

The three foot fence IS a joke to her...I found that out at 4 months old when she vaulted over it as if it was nothing to play with the neighbor GSD. From that point on, she never went out again without being on a leash. 

I sort of feel like it's a bad cosmic joke that I would up with a pup who reacts so strongly to other dogs and joggers...being that I live on a jogging/dog walking trail. But, my ultimate goal is for her to be able to be out there with us, let people pass by without barking, etc. If she is any further into the yard than our back deck, she will react like I described. This pup wants nothing more than to play with other dogs and then something about joggers (I'm sure the running) really makes her barky and crazy. The thing is, I'm trying to correct her out there with just a nylon collar because she has not yet been old enough for a prong. She is finally almost 6 months old, so my obedience trainer is going to be fitting her with a prong collar later this week. She seems to think this will help me with corrections.

As far as the kids issue....I just can't trust her not to be too rough...she's grown up with them and I see zero aggression or frustration from her towards them....but I see an over exuberant desire to run with them, play with them, jump up....mouth, etc. All puppy stuff I know...but she's a big dog and I know better than to let that go on at all. I do train with her using my 6 year old son. I have her on leash, and we go out and I have him run all around her. I keep control of her and reward her when she sits or watches him calmly. This seems to work at the moment, but if I let her off, she instantly goes back to her old ways. I suppose it's just something that takes time.....lots and lots of time, with a dog like her.

I see your point about a dog run making it worse. We'd only use it if we were out there, and thus she'd feel isolated and left out of the fun no matter how many bully sticks I tossed in there. She's very attached to all of us, and HATES to be alone. 

I suppose the best option is to crate her when I can't be out there with her on leash.

I am also considering an electric fence option...because I have friends and family who have had really good luck with that. In my subdivision...we are only allowed split rail fences...and the highest they go is 4'...which I think would also be a bit of a joke for Jemma the vault master.


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## Dakotasmom23 (Jan 11, 2012)

Do you have any large trees to install a zip-line for a long leash? We did this with a previous shepherd when we didn't have a fence. She had the whole run of the yard (well, a large portion of it), but was still confined to a leash. I agree that the outdoor kennel will likely cause further barrier frustration with your pup if you are outside and she's kenneled. When we got our 70lb rambunctious shelter mutt my kids were 1.5 and 7 years old. I had the dog on a large lunge line and when he would jump or herd the kids, I'd give a correction. If he was still really nuts, I'd use a spray bottle to keep him from jumping on the kids and basically body block him if he got too nuts near them. Lots of treats and training of "leave it" mixed in, and he'd get timed out to his crate for really bad behavior. By the time he was 2 years old (one year of training) I could trust him 100% to be gentle with the entire backyard full of neighbor kids. But I'd exercise the crazy out of him before allowing him in the yard with kids. He's the best dog in the neighborhood now with the kids.


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## TheVintageAngel (Oct 4, 2011)

I do have a 40' zip line I just put out there to try....tied it around a big wood post of our pergola over the deck. Within a few minutes...Jemma had wrapped herself around a small little pine tree - LOL. But, I think that will be the plan for outdoor time when not on leash. I just won't ever leave her on it unattended because I worry she'd get tangled up like that and hurt herself...plus my obedience trainer is strictly against leaving a dog outside unattended for behavior reasons (digging, barking, etc.)...I totally get that. 

At least I know there is hope....a full year of training...oh my Serenity NOW! Okay, I can do this....

My friend who has an adult shepherd, who was never a high energy pup like Jemma is, was over last weekend and she said..."Jemma's so pretty, and she's a sweet dog...but that energy....it's like she's on mountain dew and cocaine"....yep, that's about it in a nutshell.


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## TheVintageAngel (Oct 4, 2011)

PS - my friend also told me to try the spray bottle...I tried it once on Jemma and she thought it was just THE funnest game EVER! She'd lick the air as the spray was falling/misting and get into the "butt up" play position...do a zoomie....and look at me like, do it again MOM!


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## Dakotasmom23 (Jan 11, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan. Yeah I only used the zip line for quick potty breaks; I'm absolutely opposed to dogs on tie-outs in general but sometimes you have to do it for everyone's safety. Our backyard backs to a jogging trail too so I am thankful for our privacy fence or I'm positive I'd be asking for help too. Its a tough age, but I swear the work pays off. Jemma sounds like a riot!


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