# Ethical?



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

So as a rescue/shelter we have the ability to buy DNA kits, Flexi Leads and other interesting items to have in our "store".
When people adopt, they can shop and purchase things at reduced rates usually, that we carry. We do carry Lupine leash/collar sets. They now have matching Flexi leads. I rarely recommend a Flexi unless you have a burning desire to allow your dog to lead out in front, for instance, on a hiking trail, or if you have a "shy pooper" like some of our dogs are. 

Anyway - I don't believe in DNA kits, they are really not accurate enough for me to waste my own money on one, and I think it's really a waste of anyone's money. 

There's a few other things we could carry that people could buy, that again, I don't agree with or wouldn't recommend.

I know vets usually know better than to sell some of the things they do, too, but they carry them to make a profit for their business.

My question is - if I don't agree w/DNA testing, and would rather folks used their money on a training class or a vet visit, should I offer them?

I guess I keep coming back to "people will eventually buy one anyway", if they are going to, so maybe I ought to keep some on hand? I mean if they are going to toss their money away anyway...?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

If you're worried about the ethical side of it, I think as long as you tell them they're not very accurate, that should be fine. People see the word "DNA" and think it's going to be some spot on analysis when it's really not. Just give them the heads up before they make the purchase

Like you said, if they have their mind dead set on buying one of those kits, they're either go to buy it from you or buy it from someone else.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Just give them the heads up before they make the purchase


So like, "it's not real accurate but they can be fun to do", sort of thing? I actually agree with a "fun to do" but probably not the best idea to guess a breed 

Thank you for your input!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think you should sell whatever you can if you're making money to help those in your care, EXCEPT if the item is actually harmful, like those stupid laser light toys. The more money you make, the more help you can be.

Also, just because you don't like something doesn't mean you shouldn't offer it. Think of it as a restaurant menu, lol. Nobody's going to like everything. I personally love my Flexi. But I'm an oddball, apparently, because I'm not offering the entire 26' at all times...which seems to be the common complain with these leashes. I guess I'm the only one who uses the retract and the lock??! LOL!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't think there's anything wrong with telling them the truth about the tests. They aren't totally accurate. And like you said, if they really want to do it, they're going to buy it on way or another.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh I just bought a new flexi! I don't NOT use or not believe in them but many folks are using them wrong and making their dogs a danger. I like the flexis when we're on vacation to let the dog move about more so it'll go potty. But if the place we're at is pretty crowded I opt for a regular leash.

My parents use them and they'd walk their dogs and their dogs would be crossing each other, etc. drives me INSANE! And then my mom's dog wandered across her leg and caused a string burn (???) across her leg. 

I think flexis are great in some situations and if used right  I'd have to give flexi lessons LOL


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

I would continue to offer the kits, but not suggest people buy them. Just sell kits to the people who ask about them, and then tell them your reservations before they buy. That seems most ethical to me.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Blanketback said:


> I think you should sell whatever you can if you're making money to help those in your care, EXCEPT if the item is actually harmful, like those stupid laser light toys. The more money you make, the more help you can be.
> 
> Also, just because you don't like something doesn't mean you shouldn't offer it. Think of it as a restaurant menu, lol. Nobody's going to like everything. I personally love my Flexi. But I'm an oddball, apparently, because I'm not offering the entire 26' at all times...which seems to be the common complain with these leashes. I guess I'm the only one who uses the retract and the lock??! LOL!


It's not that she doesn't *like* them. It's just that they can be pricey and aren't accurate. Being involved in rescue, it's more than likely that the money would hold better use when put towards training classes.

I definitely DO NOT LIKE flexis because they are dangerous. I have seen so many injuries (both human and animal) because of the corded ones typically used for smaller dogs. It's a bad incident waiting to happen and it doesn't really have anything to do with a personal choice, but rather a safety concern.


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

I always enjoy your posts, and finally might have something to offer in return.

By asking this question, you have already answered it. The only ethical question here is if you choose to fully endorse the product or not, which you likely will not. If you express your views to a potential customer, and the customer buys it anyway, then great. You can sleep well knowing you shared the information and your bias (or knowledge, in this case). Keep 'em in stock, share what you know, and sell when requested. What is "right" for you may be different than what is "right" to them. I see people who choose to have purple hair, why? I don't get it. But something made it the right choice for them. What you don't know about me is that I am folicly challenged (bald), so there is my paradigm. Purple hair dye has zero value to me. I hope you earn a fortune on flexi-leads and DNA kits, because I know you will use that profit to do what is "right" in a way I would likely agree with (better shelters/rescues).

BTW, I am in the "profiling" business. I am trained to look for the answers in the questions.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Flexi lessons probably isn't a bad idea, lol!

I met someone recently who was complaining about them being used with dogs on the bike trail. WHAT!? Yeah, I also walk the trails, but when I see a bike, I reel him in and lock, then hold the nylon weave and only release him when they're gone. She rolled her eyes and said I was the only one who did that. I can't believe it!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Personally, if I don't agree with something, if I think it is a waste of money, I wouldn't carry it. Let them get it somewhere else. Everyone and there brother sells flexi-leads. I have several from family members for Christmas presents. I think one has a radio and a flashlight. But since I think the things can really be dangerous, I do not recommend them or have them where anyone can see them. l certainly don't use them. And I can't give them away either because for me to give something dangerous to someone, well I have a problem with that too. 

I think that as a rescue or a breeder, what you say and have and do might be weighed a little heavier than your average Joe. I mean, if you meet someone at the petstore and they tell you that Flexi-leads can break and cause injuries, or that uncontrolled dogs on flexi-leads are a menace, that doesn't carry as much weight as seeing flexi-leads in the office where you got your dog from. 

People who want them will get them. But I do not have to be any part of that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My trainer has started using flexis in the long down, But it's optional. I just go only as far and stay only as long as I think I should, and don't use a flexi. I will use a long line sometimes. 

I am afraid of Flexi's actually. I pulled back my bow once and the rubber sight snapped and hit my eye, I let go of the string, and ended up with a bruise on my lower and upper arm from the bow string, and my face cut and bleeding and bruised from where the sight snapped and hit it. I know flexi's can snap. I just don't see the point in them.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh great, just what I needed: something else to worry about!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

65Champagne said:


> BTW, I am in the "profiling" business. I am trained to look for the answers in the questions.


Great...now I'm going to be all nervous when posting......


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Thank you, Ken, for your insightful post, and your compliment as well! Sometimes I get discouraged here, and you helped me see it differently 

I do think Flexis have a time and place - it's just another tool that when used wrong can be dangerous, for sure. 
The key would be knowing when and how to use it. I think I do give this information out as well, I just don't think about it much. Now I'm thinking about it


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Blanketback said:


> Oh great, just what I needed: something else to worry about!


Flexis and swimming/fetching in the water! 
Don't use the flexi in the water and you'll be fine


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

Lilie said:


> Great...now I'm going to be all nervous when posting......


I'll be watching you.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Within reason I'd sell what makes money for your cause. If folks don't buy them at your place they'll buy them somewhere else.

Why not post a sign above the DNA kits warning folks that they're not reliable. Also post another sign over the flexileads stating your concern about using them. That way people will have the facts and can make their minds up if they want the item/s or not.


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

one thing that the shelter here has is a tag machine. and you can buy collars as well. all in one deal. that would be awesome  
i don't necessarily believe the dna kits, but i am very interested to see what would happen if i tested my dads mixes and my one purebreed.


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## 65Champagne (Nov 15, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Thank you, Ken, for your insightful post, and your compliment as well! Sometimes I get discouraged here, and you helped me see it differently
> 
> I do think Flexis have a time and place - it's just another tool that when used wrong can be dangerous, for sure.
> The key would be knowing when and how to use it. I think I do give this information out as well, I just don't think about it much. Now I'm thinking about it


Yup, that's it. I don't own one, and I am usually annoyed when I see them because they are often used wrong, but I am sure there are places or situations when they are the right tool. A DNA kit might tell someone that there poodle is a poodle, who knows? That might end a 10 year old argument between a husband and wife. You can't possibly expect the world to know what you know, and if you could tell them, they wouldn't listen.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Re: the DNA kits...we adopted out a large breed puppy who'd been told their existing dog was a Newfoundland mix when it was a puppy. Well, as I live and breathe, this was a Border Collie mix. But they said "he's still growing!" The dog was a medium sized breed and should have been around 35lbs. but this dog was some 60lb. if he was an ounce!! And he was 12-18mos.
I was like...um...do we tell them the last rescue was completely deluded?? And that they've created a really overweight dog by feeding it as you'd do a Newf pup??
You could see whatever this puppy we had was going to be large by his huge paws, but their dog, typical BC mix. In fact the puppy we had was already almost as tall as their grown dog!
We just let it go :shrug:


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## butch33611 (May 4, 2007)

Just tell them the test is not that great. After that it becomes:

Buyer be ware....Then its their choice to make and your profit to be had.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

I would give the customer your honest input on the stuff you are selling, if it still sells, then keep it around. If not, then maybe get something else. I don't think there's anything wrong with selling stuff people atually want to buy, especiall if they have an honest heads up. That would make it ethical as far as I'm concerned. I think a DNA test would be cool to try on a mixed breed, even if it wasn't that accurate!

Like someone else already said, if you are making money, that's helping your rescue. But if the people really _know _what they're buying and still choose to do so, then everyone's happy and you are continuing to help the animals! Double win!


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I'd feel like you. I'd find it very difficult to sell something I didn't believe in or thought was a waste of money. 

But then again, it's each to their own. I personally love the extending lead (not the string type) - but others hate them. 

I couldn't sell something I found personally offensive though. I wouldn't want to make money that way. 

But a DNA kit - why not, if customers are prepared to waste their money, and you can benefit. You can always advice that they need to go to training with their new dog - but you can't make people listen.
________
Sue


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Honestly, if it benefits the rescue, let people buy whatever silly thing they want.  Like the others said, I'd just be honest about the caveats with the DNA test. "Fun to do, but not really accurate" is a good way to describe it. As to the Flexi-leads, I'd sell them with a warning label and give a brief description of its proper use with each sale. I personally cannot stand Flexi-leads. There is a time and place for them, like potty walks in an unfenced area, but people use them as regular walking leashes and it drives me crazy. Anyone who's ever gotten a Flexi-burn on the back of the knee can testify.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I think if you have to ask if it's ethical then you don't feel it is. 

How many are you going to sell if you tell people that you don't believe in them? Probably not many. Are these donated to you? If so, perhaps they would better benefit another rescue that does believe in them. Or do you buy and resell? That will affect your overhead. No sense having "dead money" sitting on a shelf.

Leashes are a different matter. Those you can explain to ppl how to correctly use them. 

Personally, with so many products out there, I think you can find ones that you believe in and that will help people without selling something that obviously makes you uncomfortable.


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## Draugr (Jul 8, 2011)

If the money earned is going to go toward helping more dogs, I don't see any ethical quandaries? Especially if you're offering them for sale with the caveat that they aren't terribly accurate.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Freestep said:


> Honestly, if it benefits the rescue, let people buy whatever silly thing they want.  Like the others said, I'd just be honest about the caveats with the DNA test. *"Fun to do, but not really accurate" is a good way to describe it. * As to the Flexi-leads, I'd sell them with a warning label and give a brief description of its proper use with each sale. I personally cannot stand Flexi-leads. *There is a time and place for them, like potty walks in an unfenced area,* but people use them as regular walking leashes and it drives me crazy. Anyone who's ever gotten a Flexi-burn on the back of the knee can testify.


Thank you, this is exactly how I feel! 



> If the money earned is going to go toward helping more dogs, I don't see any ethical quandaries? Especially if you're offering them for sale with the caveat that they aren't terribly accurate.


Yes, I think this is how I will present it. There's many people who express interest in them and I do tell them exactly that anyway


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

i think the DNA tests are fun...ive known friends to order them online and use them after years of gussing what their dogs were mixed with...all in fun..i think as long s you tell the buyer they arent 100% accurate then no harm is done


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