# Looking For Reputable Breeder Near NJ/NY/PA



## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Hello, everyone!

I would like some assistance in searching for reputable breeders. Although, I'm not exactly ready for any puppies in my life just yet. I just wanted to do some preemptive research.
I live in northern New Jersey to be more specific in Bergen County. I would be willing to drive down to PA or NY (4-5 hour drive max) for the perfect breeder. I've done a little research myself; however, I would love to hear any reviews or recommendations that you guys have to share. 

As a side note, I do own two cats that have never been socialized properly with dogs before. So, it would be beneficial to find a breeder that has experience in placing pups in homes with families that have cats. My main interest is finding a healthy pup with excellent temperament. Possibly, a show line. Since, I believe a working line may be too much for a first time GSD owner. 

Thanks so much for the help!:grin2:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

For German show lines, I would go with Hollow Hills in Clarks Summit. She also has American show lines.

I doubt any breeder can guarantee a placement with cats. That is 95% on you for the training. You could ask for one with lower prey drive to help.

Jackie is somewhere in PA and has American show lines but I can't remember her username or kennel name!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jackie's user name is Xeph. Her kennel is Marcato.


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## creegh (Sep 12, 2014)

*Looking For Reputable Breeder Near NJ/NY/PAc*

Wolfstraum in Pittsburg has some nice dogs. Had one of her bitches Kira at my house for a few days and she was perfect. Excellent off switch, great with my cats, super loving and sweet. My fiancé wanted to steal her and not give her back.

Seen Kira's puppies at club and they are nice to work and again have that off switch and balanced temperament that makes them easy to live with. 

Kira's brother Komet just had a litter born and the temperaments in that cross should be fantastic. 

Really like the Wolfstraum dogs I've been around. There's a consistency there that's so nice to see from a breeding standpoint and she's extremely devoted to the breed and wants to produce dogs with good temperaments, balanced drives and excellent off switches and ability to settle so they can live in the house as a family member.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Welcome and good luck in your search!


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Jax08 said:


> For German show lines, I would go with Hollow Hills in Clarks Summit. She also has American show lines.
> 
> I doubt any breeder can guarantee a placement with cats. That is 95% on you for the training. You could ask for one with lower prey drive to help.
> 
> Jackie is somewhere in PA and has American show lines but I can't remember her username or kennel name!


Thank you for the recommendations! :grin2:
As well, I agree 100% on your statement on training. I plan on introducing them very slowly as first; most likely once my pup knows his basic commands.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

*waves* I am in Western PA, an hour outside of Pittsburgh. My puppies are raised with a cat, and everything I've bred so far has been cat safe (though some needed a little more work in that department than others).


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

creegh said:


> Wolfstraum in Pittsburg has some nice dogs. Had one of her bitches Kira at my house for a few days and she was perfect. Excellent off switch, great with my cats, super loving and sweet. My fiancé wanted to steal her and not give her back.
> 
> Seen Kira's puppies at club and they are nice to work and again have that off switch and balanced temperament that makes them easy to live with.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response! I've seen her website in my search. I really like her dedication to the breed. Her dogs seem very well trained and balanced. My only concern with working breed dogs is being able to provide enough stimulus and fun activities to keep my pup entertained. However, I definitely plan on going to multiple obedience training classes!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Kush, how far is Bergen county from Milford, NJ? I will be staying there when we go to Westminster in February. I will have 2-3 of my dogs with me.


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## creegh (Sep 12, 2014)

Lee is super good about matching her puppies with appropriate homes. I know a pup from a previous litter went into a pet home with young children and has done well there - they got the right amount of dog and drive for their family.

As long as you are open and honest a good breeder will get you the right dog or be fair and say this puppy or litter is not a match.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

We have a puppy from Beth at Hollow hills in Pennsylvania. Many of her dogs have titles, SAR, therapy dogs, and all are health checked. We are very happy with her our new pup- Luna. Beth the breeder is always there with any questions I have and she is great. Love her dogs! She has really blended into the household the day she walked into our house. I was overwhelmed worrying about everyone meshing but it all could not really have gone smoother. She is not crazy about cats though she is still a pup and we are working on it. 
Max is from Jessica Torres -Woodhaven's German Shepherds in Southhampton, New Jersey. A small kennel and Jessica only breeds American showlines. Max is dog reactive and suspicious of certain people. He is not perfect but a incredible family dog and we have tons of fun with him. Max took sometime getting used to the cats they were older and they were easy. We only have one cat now-who is a bit skitzy we rescued her and was a feral cat she likes to stays away. It took sometime having Max get used to her. He has a very high prey drive. We have a little chihuahua who Max adores and is very gentle with. Jessica is mainly active in showing. Her dogs are all health checked. She has had a few pups that went off to be cadaver dogs and are Max's cousins. Max sister is being worked and competing in obedience. Jessica is always available for any questions and was able to speak to her when ever I needed.
Woodhaven is not on any social media or website. 

http://www.hollowhillsgsd.com


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Jenny720 - Do you have a Leuan daughter? I love that dog!!! Just an all around stable male.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> @Jenny720 - Do you have a Leuan daughter? I love that dog!!! Just an all around stable male.


Hi Jax we have a Leuan granddaughter. From Nebula and Mailo's litter. We met Leuan for a short while he was great with the kids and they fell in love with him so did I.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Beth really strives to follow the breed standards. I love talking dogs with her. A ton of knowledge.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes thank you I like to hear this. Beth has incredible dogs. Took so much time with us answered so many questions and was very thorough. Beth made it easy to decide. We met quite a few her dogs and really happy with all that we saw. I felt it was a good balance in our house with one of her pups. Was looking for addition to our family and a dog my daughter can work with in the future with agility possibly show for fun , tracking, who knows what else. Max is great in agility but limited with his dog reaction. My daughter loves agility and our chihuahua is getting old. Right now we are just enjoying her -she is such a delight and really a nice easy puppy in many ways.


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Xeph said:


> Kush, how far is Bergen county from Milford, NJ? I will be staying there when we go to Westminster in February. I will have 2-3 of my dogs with me.


Hello Xeph, Milford seems to be around an 1hr and 30 mins away which is doable. Would love to meet you and see your dogs!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Xeph - Good luck at Westminster we will be routing for you!!!


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

creegh said:


> Lee is super good about matching her puppies with appropriate homes. I know a pup from a previous litter went into a pet home with young children and has done well there - they got the right amount of dog and drive for their family.
> 
> As long as you are open and honest a good breeder will get you the right dog or be fair and say this puppy or litter is not a match.


Agreed, and I'm honestly in no rush to obtain a puppy. I would like to have everything planned and ready for when the puppy arrives first. Getting to know the breeder and understanding the breed properly is my primary motive. I can wait patiently for the perfect puppy for our home. :smile2:


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> We have a puppy from Beth at Hollow hills in Pennsylvania. Many of her dogs have titles, SAR, therapy dogs, and all are health checked. We are very happy with her our new pup- Luna. Beth the breeder is always there with any questions I have and she is great. Love her dogs! She has really blended into the household the day she walked into our house. I was overwhelmed worrying about everyone meshing but it all could not really have gone smoother. She is not crazy about cats though she is still a pup and we are working on it.
> Max is from Jessica Torres -Woodhaven's German Shepherds in Southhampton, New Jersey. A small kennel and Jessica only breeds American showlines. Max is dog reactive and suspicious of certain people. He is not perfect but a incredible family dog and we have tons of fun with him. Max took sometime getting used to the cats they were older and they were easy. We only have one cat now-who is a bit skitzy we rescued her and was a feral cat she likes to stays away. It took sometime having Max get used to her. He has a very high prey drive. We have a little chihuahua who Max adores and is very gentle with. Jessica is mainly active in showing. Her dogs are all health checked. She has had a few pups that went off to be cadaver dogs and are Max's cousins. Max sister is being worked and competing in obedience. Jessica is always available for any questions and was able to speak to her when ever I needed.
> Woodhaven is not on any social media or website.
> 
> http://www.hollowhillsgsd.com


Your pups sound like amazing family pets! :smile2:
My only fear with having any dogs with a high prey drive, is not being able to control their natural impulses. The last thing I would want is to create a negative experience for both my cats and future pup. You'll have to let me know how you trained Max to leave your kitty alone.Was it difficult since he has a high prey drive? Did he have the same reaction to the chihuahua?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

We were work on progress with our new pup. She ignores our bunny but does not like the cat. 

It took much time for max to get used to our very skittish cat. We had three older ones that since passed- this was easy for max to get used to them as they did not run. But making sure he did not pester them was work. 

Dog does not chase the cat all interactions we're leashed so he did not chase the cat. Cat had a separate area. The cat has to feel safe so it does not run. In order for that to happen you have to make sure the dog does not chase the cat. This took a long long time. Interactions were supervised. It depends on the cat. Our cat now is extremely skittish to the 10 the power only makes it more challenging. Now I feel we are starting from scratch again with the new pup. The most important thing your cat has a separate room or place in your home where he or she can go and feel safe.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't remember training my dogs to the cat-my rescue loved the cat-when I was asleep she would curl around the cat and they would sleep together-after a while it seemed the cat was dog proofed-she did not run. My first dog would play with the cat -she would put her paws around his muzzle and would not put out her claws-and he would put his mouth over her neck and not clamp down-guess they just adjusted to each other


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Lee's dogs live in the house with multiple cats. It's all about the proper training. I have met many of her dogs, and they have all been great. She is knowledgeable about the breed, breeding, matching up the right breeding to get solid, stable nerves, healthy and great temperaments, while still having a dog capable of many types of activities. Plus side is that they are all health tested and titled, and she is there to help and support the puppy and their new owners.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes it is training puppies needs to know the rules. Be kind to the grumpy Chihuahua, ignore the bunny and parakeet and don't chase the cat our present puppy lesson. Always no chasing of the many wild turkeys that visit our yard they will fly over the fence when I'm out their training the dogs they are daring crazy birds. We have hawks and foxes in our area and always worried about our little chihuahua getting snatched. I will know when something is out there at night when the puppy and our Chihuahua go out to potty Max stands watch in the back yard sitting on the deck just watching the woods and over them as the pup and Chihuahua do their thing. Have to get a picture of that it is really cute.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Our first shepherd was a working line he was very calm he was from Belgium. He completely ignored our three cats like they didn't exist. He was older and already trained and came from a house of cats. I have never seen a dog completely ignore dogs and cat. Karat did they were invisible to him. even if they gave him affection he was not tempted to even smell them. I always found that self control fascinating.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

"Prey drive" can be used to describe many different reactions/scenarios and can manifest itself in different ways - herding, bitework, chasing (or even killing) small dogs, cats, rodents, or leaves.... but its not all inclusive at all.

Genetics, training, outlets, opportunity can all be factors in handling / channeling / managing prey drive.

Keystone has fairly high prey drive but it's limited to certain animals / objects and can seem inconsistent. He lives safely with a cat and does fine with small dogs... goes nuts if he sees chickens but can care less about a flock of pigeons... send a kite or balloon in the air and he loses his mind. He's tangled with a deer, shows interest in sheep but thinks goats and cows are boring. Rats, lizards and remote control cars are not safe either.

But.... with proper outlets, good impulse control and a nice recall - none of that matters. He remains easy to live with.

I say that to say, just be aware of prey drive... not afraid, nervous or discouraged. The term itself is neither good nor bad.


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## Benny and Me (Dec 21, 2015)

I have one of Xeph's puppies and would highly recommend her.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

<3 <3 BIG FAT BENNY <3 <3 

Kush, when you are able, please feel free to PM me and perhaps we can chat about you meeting some of my crew


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## creegh (Sep 12, 2014)

I've been working with Lee 2 years now?? Life kept pushing my timeline back (being military, getting out of the military, moving etc). She's always been supportive and helpful and willing to educate.

I highly recommend getting in touch with a breeder as soon as you have a timeline. This will be a partnership you will be forming for the life of your new puppy. It will also give you a chance to figure out if this is the right breeder for you. Also, most good breeders have waiting lists well in advance.


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Jenny720 said:


> We were work on progress with our new pup. She ignores our bunny but does not like the cat.
> 
> It took much time for max to get used to our very skittish cat. We had three older ones that since passed- this was easy for max to get used to them as they did not run. But making sure he did not pester them was work.
> 
> Dog does not chase the cat all interactions we're leashed so he did not chase the cat. Cat had a separate area. The cat has to feel safe so it does not run. In order for that to happen you have to make sure the dog does not chase the cat. This took a long long time. Interactions were supervised. It depends on the cat. Our cat now is extremely skittish to the 10 the power only makes it more challenging. Now I feel we are starting from scratch again with the new pup. The most important thing your cat has a separate room or place in your home where he or she can go and feel safe.


Duly noted! Thanks so much for the info. I honestly hate the misconception that cats and dogs can't learn to get along with each other.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Kush said:


> Duly noted! Thanks so much for the info. I honestly hate the misconception that cats and dogs can't learn to get along with each other.


We have 4 dogs that live with a cat. That same cat has lived with 3 other dogs no longer here. 

There are two outside cats. The one likes to go rub against the dogs legs while they are trying to pee.

Dogs and cats will accept each other as members of their pack. You just need to teach the puppy that pestering and stepping on the cat's head to make a squeaky toy is not acceptable 

Now...a strange cat RUNNING from your dog? Game on. It's total prey. That's a separate training issue.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sending you a PM regarding a breeder.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

Kush said:


> Hello, everyone!
> 
> I would like some assistance in searching for reputable breeders. Although, I'm not exactly ready for any puppies in my life just yet. I just wanted to do some preemptive research.
> I live in northern New Jersey to be more specific in Bergen County. I would be willing to drive down to PA or NY (4-5 hour drive max) for the perfect breeder. I've done a little research myself; however, I would love to hear any reviews or recommendations that you guys have to share.
> ...


Don't go with a show line dog. Get a working line. They have less difficult working lines. Jagermeister kennels in NJ are very good.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I think what makes sense is to go look at the breeders and decide what you like


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes go visit breeders meet different lines ask questions get what you like. It's part of the exciting experience! Statements like Julian would make me want to run from the breed entirely if I did not know any better. Sounds like a used car sales man or woman or whatever - and is very discrediting to the person making that statement -so biased- shame shame.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Julian G said:


> Don't go with a show line dog. Get a working line. They have less difficult working lines. Jagermeister kennels in NJ are very good.


I don't think from the dogs I have seen, and the pedigrees that I would agree with this Julian............not for a beginner who is hesitant about working lines anyway. Besides, the thread has been heavily addressed by a few very persistent members and the OP needs to sort out not only the information but some of the peripheral behind the scenes stuff....

Lee


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

A bit farther than you are thinking, but Christine Kemper in VA would be an excellent choice. She has years of knowledge at picking the right puppy for a person's situation and experience. 

Welcome to Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

Her website isn't updated. She also has a FB page.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Julian G said:


> Don't go with a show line dog. Get a working line. They have less difficult working lines. Jagermeister kennels in NJ are very good.


That's a really broad statement, that's very slanted. :frown2: There are many great show line breeders and well as working lines. To each their own, it's choosing the correct breeder that's important.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

ksotto333 said:


> That's a really broad statement, that's very slanted. :frown2: There are many great show line breeders and well as working lines. To each their own, it's choosing the correct breeder that's important.


It is slanted, because show line breeders ruined the breed. That's just the way I feel deep down.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Julian G said:


> It is slanted, because show line breeders ruined the breed. That's just the way I feel deep down.


Not going to argue, but look at Marcato or Huerta Hof. They certainly haven't ruined this breed.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ksotto333 said:


> Not going to argue, but look at Marcato or Huerta Hof. They certainly haven't ruined this breed.



???????????????????? American show lines and cross bred show and East German??????????????

HUH?????


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Could we not? Like, seriously. It's so old. 

I've busted my backside to breed sound, stable dogs that like to do things and are easy to live with. I'm not constantly bashing working lines, and my experiences with them have not been positive. Presenting WL as some magical unicorn that is perfect for everybody is freaking ridiculous and a lie. They're not perfect. There's a lot of hype.

WL are right for some people, SL are right for other people. They all have their place.

I've sent some people to WL breeders, others to AmLine or WGSL breeders, just depends. I'm not so narrow minded as to think I'm the only one that has something to offer, or that only one line is suitable for people

The OP should meet some dogs of various lines and see what best suits their lifestyle.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Julian G said:


> It is slanted, because show line breeders ruined the breed. That's just the way I feel deep down.


If you are going to criticize the lines of choice for a lot of people, be prepared to back it up with more than a feeling. You are giving out a lot of advice. How many German Shepherds have you owned and trained? What is your hands on experience with WGSL or WL? Reading message boards can give you ideas. Working with a dog gives you experience and the ability to make recommendations.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*OK everyone, let's please be civil and not start a bashing of lines war. 

Thank you, ADMIN*


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

Christine Kemper in Virginia. Blackthornkennel.com or Blackthorn Working German Shepherds on Facebook. It's a very large and extremely active group.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

lhczth said:


> A bit farther than you are thinking, but Christine Kemper in VA would be an excellent choice. She has years of knowledge at picking the right puppy for a person's situation and experience.
> 
> Welcome to Blackthorn Working German Shepherds
> 
> Her website isn't updated. She also has a FB page.


I think that Christine is likely to produce what the OP is looking for with a higher percentage of DDR lines in many of her litters....sometimes it takes me several litters before I have enough appropriate pups for a novice companion home - I do but usually have people waiting for them.


Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Kush Are you on Facebook? If so, I'll send you a link to a good page


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I find this forum sometimes to be pretty heavily biased toward working line dogs. To the OP, I have had all kinds, working lines, a rescue mostly white GSD with a fair dash of who knows what, and now an AKC white GSD. I consider a well bred white to be basically the equivalent of American show lines. 

My white dog is just so easy to live with, so easy to train. He does not mind taking a day or even....and I am embarassed to say it, a week off from training if I am away or too busy to do more than walk him. He can just roll with it, but he is also active in all sorts of other stuff with me, loves to learn, loves to get out and do stuff.

I am definitely not trying to bring a debate about whites into this whole working vs show thing, just trying to say I made the decision not to get a working line dog this time around when I very, very nearly did. I love the working line dogs, and I truly appreciate what they are. But the truth was deep down this time I just didn't want one and I feel I made the right choice and I love my dog.

If you think a working line is too much for you and think a showline might be a better fit then go for it.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

@Kush,
Good luck in your search for a GSD, they are wonderful dogs. You have been given some excellent recommendations for breeders that would have the type of dog that you are looking for. I would also recommend the same breeders myself to you.

Here's the thing, I've owned my share of GSD's over the years from ASL, a white GSD, WGSL, WGWL and WG/Czech WL dogs. Guess what, I loved them all and they were all great dogs, great pets and great companions. I can honestly say that each dog was exactly the dog that I needed or wanted at the time. If you like a SL dog then by all means get a SL dog and the breeders mentioned can certainly help you. 

You have been given advice by some very knowledgeable folks that have experience with the breeders they have recommended or know them and their dogs personally. That is a great reference, and I happen to agree with the recommendations. 

Unfortunately, some less knowledgeable and less experienced folks feel the need to chime in, as if it is their job to "save the breed." This is the internet after all and some will offer their opinion as fact with little firsthand experience or actual knowledge.

The best thing to do is keep doing your research, then narrow down exactly what traits and temperament that you like. Then visit or communicate with some of the breeders mentioned and get a feel for them and see how you hit it off. Don't get caught up in all the hype about different GSD's. The DDR, Czech or WL vs SL hype. Find a reputable breeder that produces the type of dog that you like. You will be the one living with the dog for the next 10-14 years. 

Also, since this is a forum on the internet, research the posters as well. Read their other posts and see if they make sense to you? Get an idea on the folks recommending breeders and are actually helpful. You can get a good read on people from their online posts, experience level, knowledge base, etc. 

Please keep asking questions and the best of luck in your search.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I've had a working line (from mostly East German/Czech lines), a West German showline, and this summer, I added a white shepherd to our family. They have all been wonderful. None have had hip, elbow, or other major genetic problems (knock on wood, so far). 

I hope to always have a GSD in my life, and I expect someday to have another working line. But for right now, with a toddler and another on the way, I am enjoying my WGSL and white shepherd. Though to be fair, the WGSL does have an edge to him, more so than my white shepherd who is much softer. 

OP, you should look for whatever "flavor" of GSD that works for you. You can find an excellent companion from any line. Far more important, in my opinion, is to invest in a puppy from a responsible breeder, which you seem to be doing since you have made this post. I wish I knew a breeder in your area to recommend. I don't know Xeph, nor have I ever met her dogs, but my instincts say she'd be a good person to contact.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

A dog that can work covers a wide variety of interests, bite work, personal protection,law enforcement, herding, seeing eye dog, to name a few. My dogs are my pets, and active in their own right. Do they know that chasing a ball, hiking, camping, swimming and keeping an eye on my granddaughter isn't good enough for some people. Pretty sure they are unaware of how inept they are, but they are good dogs that have a great life.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm just gonna be over here, continuing to ruin the breed


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Xeph said:


> I'm just gonna be over here, continuing to ruin the breed


Omg! How dare you!!! Those dogs aren't crazy high energy prey monkeys on a bite sleeve!!! They aren't real german shepherds!!!

Wait.

German shepherd. 

Shep herd. 

Sheep herder. 

0


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## csmith4313 (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm just gonna throw a "3rd" Line in here what about rescue? I saved my Samuel from some backyard breeder trash. Sam was on deaths door. Go for a Rescue. If you are worried about your cats it just takes a little hard work but you will get there. I'll leave you a picture of hope. Lol









Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## csmith4313 (Jul 22, 2015)

csmith4313 said:


> I'm just gonna throw a "3rd" Line in here what about rescue? I saved my Samuel from some backyard breeder trash. Sam was on deaths door. Go for a Rescue. If you are worried about your cats it just takes a little hard work but you will get there. I'll leave you a picture of hope. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And trust no one man or beast messes with Harlow now.  

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

One of my favorites. She also lives with like, six cats, several other dogs (a GSD, a Mastiff, an Irish Wolfhound, and an Ibizan hound), a chinchilla, several snakes, and birds (there were also rabbits and guinea pigs at one point)


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I had ASL in the past and they had good hips. My WGSL has good hips.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> Xeph, your dogs look great.


Ya know... I'm generally not a fan of ASLs, they tend to be a little more fine boned then my aesthetics prefer... but I gotta say Xeph has some smokin' dogs. 

@Xeph you wouldn't happen to have any videos of your dogs working sheep would you? Those pics look like they have some truly drool worthy flying trots. I'd love to see them in motion.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

GCH Wes HT





CH Soul Eater HT





Mikasa HT
https://www.facebook.com/marcatoshepherds/videos/10156998559460607/?l=569495365653520328

CH Moto meeting sheep
https://www.facebook.com/marcatoshepherds/videos/10157392695845607/?l=1816156607012200870

Ouzo





Apologies for the grainy vids. Taken on iPhones 

I tend to agree with you on the bone, btw. Although there are some lines out there with BEAUTIFUL bone, and I have one bitch with stunning bone...and too much butt. Beautiful type, too much back end. Perfectly functional pet, but I don't pretend she could herd all day.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Very nice! I used to love to herd. Soul Eater's wearing pattern is really nice!


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

> Apologies for the grainy vids. Taken on iPhones
> 
> I tend to agree with you on the bone, btw. Although there are some lines out there with BEAUTIFUL bone, and I have one bitch with stunning bone...and too much butt. Beautiful type, too much back end. Perfectly functional pet, but I don't pretend she could herd all day.


Such beautiful movement! It's poetry. 

I'm definitely not seeing any 'disabled' dogs here. 

I wish more breeders worked their dogs on sheep. I know logistically it can be tough since there aren't a lot of sheep farms around! But working multiple independent thinking beasts that don't want to be worked is such a beautiful test of the qualities of GSDS that won my heart, like their intelligence and intuition.

Thank you for sharing.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Working multiple independent beasts at someone else's farm also adds stress lol.

My instructor is a GSD person herself, so uses them on her flock. Her sheep are pretty heavy because of this. You take a dog like Mikasa to a different farm where they're used to working BCs and Aussies, she steps onto the pasture, and they scatter 

There was one trial where I worked her just to try and get her through an issue (she had titled the day before) and she stepped into the paddock and the animals RAN away. So then I had to try and reposition my dog and get her to a safe place to start...and they ran again.

By the time we finally got the stock settled, she was ready to lose her mind (this is the test level, so there's control, but the dogs can still be a little high). She failed that day for having no call off. She was so sure the sheep were going to get away, she refused to stop.

She needs work in the area of biddability, but I can't say I don't admire her tenacity. She'll work until she drops.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> And for the record, I find your dogs are an exception to ASLs not being my particular aesthetic


This is something I am proud to say that I hear a lot. I have worked for a decade and a half for that aim. It took me a very long time to breed my first litter (they are just 2.5 years old now) and my bitch is hopefully pregnant with her third and final litter (to a Polish import).

Anybody who assumes I am breeding for one venue does not know me, my dogs, or my philosophy. I am not after anything but a good German Shepherd Dog.

My first, who I just lost back in October, is actually loosely related to the animals I have, and was a mix of WGSL (Half, up top), AmLine, and WL. Best GSD I've had, the epitome of GSD temperament IMO, and he was an actual working dog (mobility service dog).

If I can breed anything that is even a quarter of what he was, I will consider myself successful.

I will say that one of my proudest moments came this past November, at the national dog show. A young blind man was interested in seeing my dogs, which of course involved a ton of hands on interaction. Mikasa and Soul Eater sat very quietly on the grooming table while the man slowly moved his hands over every part of them, and they had no concerns and didn't fuss when he very meticulously felt over their faces. 

I appreciate knowing I have bred dogs that are stable to handle interactions like that. They're important for both the breed and the public.


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## Spetzio (Oct 8, 2015)

I'd also like to add something else to my post that I initially forgot because it's almost 3am here. 

Again, very amateur opinions:

WL, WSGL, ASL, DDR, Czech.... Don't the different lines only mean as much as what breeders put into them? Without a breeder working towards a specific goal, who knows their dogs inside and out, their pedigrees, their traits and tendencies to throw particular genetics, what exactly each side of a pair is bringing to the breeding (positives, negatives, balancing or offsetting certain traits) you can end up with a genetic train wreck in any of the lines. Because let's face it, there are some absolutely incompetent people out there who shouldn't be breeding but still do, and can throw two WL dogs together without any knowledge of all of the ancestry behind them - and just how important the dogs in the pedigree are in terms of thresholds, drives, soundness, character, etc.

A low threshold dog with active handler aggression (whether redirection through frustration or in response to a perceived inappropriate correction), with a degree of civility and high prey drive? Not my cup of tea, and mostly because I know I have nowhere near the skill set to handle such a dog. Between that and a nice moderate West German showline who could excel in competition obedience and tracking? I'd rather have the SL, and that's okay.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

Spetzio said:


> Thank you very much.  And for the record, I find your dogs are an exception to ASLs not being my particular aesthetic - they absolutely beautiful with great movement and reach.


I fully agree with this sentiment! I'm vain. I want a good looking dog. Generally speaking I find ASLs a bit too dainty and WGSLs a bit to dense and bearish for my taste. 

The pics of the dogs Xeph has posted are beautifully balanced. 

If I ever wanted or needed a less bitey and civil GSD, I'd love a dog like she seems to strive for in her breeding . Plus.. they work too!

Beauty and brains. No extreme over angulation. Looks like an ASL breeder who is doing it right IMHO.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Crunch Hardtack said:


> Ummmmmm... wasn't this thread originally a call for help regarding breeder recommendations? Poor OP; unknowingly opened up a real can of worms. I can't stand roach backs either, but that is not the question posted on this this thread of whether we prefer WL or SL, from wherever they may originate.
> 
> .


Yes indeed. In fact, there is also a warning from an admin to not turn the thread into a debate that has been completely ignored.


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## Crunch Hardtack (Dec 22, 2016)

Jax08, looks like we're blowing against the wind. Sigh. :|


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Kush - before this thread gets closed...I'm sending you a PM with the facebook page for breeders.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*Yes, there was a warning to not turn this into a bashing thread and it was ignored. Part of the issue is when one person starts being an a$$$$$$$$ everyone feeds into the discussion instead of ignoring that person. I just deleted 46 posts from Julian and all of those who responded. Let us now get back on topic.

ADMIN Lisa*


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I guess if we can use this thread as a self marketing tool...

My GSD brood bitch also has show ratings and a breed survey, passing hips and elbows through OFA, has lived with (and absolutely loves) cats, trains in multiple venues, has progeny trailing in multiple venues who also sleep in their owners beds and live with cats, and competes nationally in IPO herself. And *gasp*, she's a dreaded, crazy, drivey, biddable, wonderful, sleeve spastic WORKING LINE dog who *gasp* sleeps in my bed every night. 

It's not that hard to find.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Kush said:


> Hello, everyone!
> 
> I would like some assistance in searching for reputable breeders. Although, I'm not exactly ready for any puppies in my life just yet. I just wanted to do some preemptive research.
> I live in northern New Jersey to be more specific in Bergen County. I would be willing to drive down to PA or NY (4-5 hour drive max) for the perfect breeder. I've done a little research myself; however, I would love to hear any reviews or recommendations that you guys have to share.
> ...


Hmm ... well it would appear ... I'm late to the party?? But the part in bold ... I'd say you have "good instincts" go with your gut! 

Frankly if pushed ... I tend to say I know nothing about SL GSD, becasue I hang out here. 

But if "pushed" a bit more ... I'd also say that the WG/SL dogs seem to be pretty cool! But I'm a OS WL GSD guy and my experiance says for "most" people ...uh "NO." But hey I did not get my guy as a puppy?? He was a 7 month old rescue and for seven months ... I saw no issues?? I am also mostly a "Bully" guy and at the time I had more that 10 years of experiance with "Band Dawgs, APBT/Boxers and Boxers so a "OS WL GSD???" No big deal ... LOL, yess ... not so much! "A big furry dog with a funny face was the "extent of my "research a WL GSD ... no big deal" Good times, good times. 

But if worrying about having chosen the wrong line is something that your gonna "dwell" on?? Then go with your gut! We have a current poster who has "no issues" with her dog (they did not state lines) but she is constantly worrying about her "dog changing???" Must make for some pretty sleepless nights???

You seem to know what you want in a dog?? And if you feel a WL dog is to much dog for you at this time, go with that. That said as you stated "Temperament" is key keep that in mind and with a good breeder you'll do fine. 

And if you have "cats" and your getting a puppy ... it's fairly simple "don't let the puppy chase the cats!" The cats may or may not accept the puppy off the bat. But if the puppy is free to chase them ... they most certainly will not! You might need to keep a drag leash on the puppy to ensure no cat chasing (a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture) or ... you might not ... it depends on the puppy??


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Slamdunc said:


> @*Kush*,
> Good luck in your search for a GSD, they are wonderful dogs. You have been given some excellent recommendations for breeders that would have the type of dog that you are looking for. I would also recommend the same breeders myself to you.
> 
> Here's the thing, I've owned my share of GSD's over the years from ASL, a white GSD, WGSL, WGWL and WG/Czech WL dogs. Guess what, I loved them all and they were all great dogs, great pets and great companions. I can honestly say that each dog was exactly the dog that I needed or wanted at the time. If you like a SL dog then by all means get a SL dog and the breeders mentioned can certainly help you.
> ...


Thank you so much! I honestly appreciate the input from someone that has so much experience with the breed. :grin2:


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

To everyone! Sorry for the late replies as a veterinary technician, work has been pretty hectic after the holidays. However, thank you all so very much for the recommendations and advice! I didn't mean for this thread to become a war on lines very sorry for that! I appreciate all the information that everyone has given me. I plan on taking all of your advice to heart. My next step is getting in contact with some breeders and possible seeing some dogs.


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

Chip18 said:


> Hmm ... well it would appear ... I'm late to the party?? But the part in bold ... I'd say you have "good instincts" go with your gut!
> 
> Frankly if pushed ... I tend to say I know nothing about SL GSD, becasue I hang out here.
> 
> ...


Haha thank you. Your honest is very enlightening.


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

lhczth said:


> A bit farther than you are thinking, but Christine Kemper in VA would be an excellent choice. She has years of knowledge at picking the right puppy for a person's situation and experience.
> 
> Welcome to Blackthorn Working German Shepherds
> 
> Her website isn't updated. She also has a FB page.


You are right, she is a tad too far and ideally I would like to see some of her dogs and where they are kept. However, in regards to her as a breeder she sounds excellent and when I think about it; distance is nothing when looking for the perfect puppy.


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## Kush (Dec 28, 2016)

csmith4313 said:


> I'm just gonna throw a "3rd" Line in here what about rescue? I saved my Samuel from some backyard breeder trash. Sam was on deaths door. Go for a Rescue. If you are worried about your cats it just takes a little hard work but you will get there. I'll leave you a picture of hope. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AWWW! So cute! I do plan on getting my dogs from rescues in the future. I just wanted to experience what its like with getting a puppy from a breeder first. I work as a veterinary technician and I always get clients constantly asking me questions on house breaking or crate training puppies, I feel really bad when I can't back up my facts with personal experience.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Kush said:


> Haha thank you. Your honest is very enlightening.


LOL ... yeah honestly as I often say ... "I'm" that guy! Ironically enough it seems I did "actually" encourage a member here to get a "WL GSD," becasue I tend to give an "unfiltered" account of my experiance! 

I was quite surprised and he seems to be very "pleased" with his dog. As I see it ... you've already said "SL GSD" you know what you want and feel that is the best choice for you! No problem ... but if you sub-come to peer pressure as it were and switch lines ... from your "first choice" I don't see how you can't help but "always" think that "had I not switched" this would not be happening??? 

That ... is just not good??? Members on here tell me that "WL GSD" make great family pets?? I don't have kids or family, or people dropping by unexpectedly ... and my "WL GSD" is good with that! Works out fine, go with your gut ... get "your" first choice .... train them well and then "maybe, possibly" if you think ... maybe "I" can add a second GSD and maybe perhaps a WL GSD?? You'll be in a much better position to make a "good choice!" on a "WL" GSD??


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Kush said:


> To everyone! Sorry for the late replies as a veterinary technician, work has been pretty hectic after the holidays. However, thank you all so very much for the recommendations and advice! I didn't mean for this thread to become a war on lines very sorry for that! I appreciate all the information that everyone has given me. I plan on taking all of your advice to heart. My next step is getting in contact with some breeders and possible seeing some dogs.


LOL well your new here ... by and large pretty much "every" thing is a "war" on here! If someone states ... the states th e "Sun will come up tomorrow!" Oh yeah ... I don't thinks so and "this" is why ... and so it goes.


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