# Sport Dogs vs. "Real dog" breeders



## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I know alot of good breeders are titling their dogs in various dog sports. Are there any breeders out there whose goals are to produce "real" dogs that might not do well on the field but would be great for protection. This is not to imply sport dogs are inferior or to insult anyone. Just curious if someone wanted a dog for protection but wasn't interested in the high drives required for sport dog competition, who would be the breeder of choice?


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Thought this was interesting

Sport Dogs vs. Real Dogs


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## joeinca (Mar 19, 2015)

Idk


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

joeinca said:


> LOL...This is like the guy who starts a sentence with "No offense but,..." then goes on to do exactly that.
> 
> Why then even use the term "Real dog" or "Real" when you could just ask the question? Its obvious you are implying dogs bred for higher drive are not in that group. Just own it if you feel that way.


Actually I don't think that way nor am I implying anything. You are inferring things. I use commonly used terms and I'm trying to get a better understanding of the differences. Not sure how I would ask the question without using these terms.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> My judgment is that dog people are like horse dealers… good at finding marketing arguments. They classify dogs in different categories and make it easier to label their dogs / breeding program. The people that do this lack knowledge and understanding… My opinion is that if I accuse my competitor’s stud dog of “only being a sport dog”, and at the same time claim that my own is a “real working dog”, I can get more people interested in my dog. I am sick and tired of those who try to label dogs and put them in different categories. It is mostly the males that get labeled.


From the interview you linked to. 

And



> *Christine: *Do you see a difference in the “sport dog” and the “real dog”? If yes, what is the difference?
> *Pierre: *There are good, average and bad dogs. The difference for me is that a dog that only is suitable for sport has good fight drive, good search abilities and has the ability to cooperate, but can lack strength in environments. The dog that is only suitable for service has good fight drive, good search abilities and is strong in environments, but lack the ability to cooperate. Both of these dog types are for me average dogs. We can use these dogs for breeding purposes, but we have to be aware of where and what the weaknesses are, so we don’t get surprised.
> The GOOD dog, that we should/have to use in our breeding, has good fight drive, search abilities, cooperative abilities and is environmentally strong. The bad dog can lack in any of the above listed things, but can be trained by good handlers. These dogs we should not take further in breeding.
> (Realize that the best trainers will rarely take on a dog like this, of logical reasons!)


There are breeders out there breeding good dogs. Stop worrying about the marketing and labels. Go out and see dogs, learn the difference and then you will find what you are looking for.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

eddie1976E said:


> I know alot of good breeders are titling their dogs in various dog sports. Are there any breeders out there whose goals are to produce "real" dogs that might not do well on the field but would be great for protection. This is not to imply sport dogs are inferior or to insult anyone. Just curious if someone wanted a dog for protection but wasn't interested in the high drives required for sport dog competition, who would be the breeder of choice?


Breeder of choice? I"m not sure there is one. I think sport dogs tend to be higher prey, "real" dogs have a higher suspicion and defense drive. I've seen some nice sport dogs and some nice "real" dogs come from the same breeder. IMO, it comes down to the individual breeding.


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## joeinca (Mar 19, 2015)

eddie1976E said:


> Actually I don't think that way nor am I implying anything. You are inferring things. I use commonly used terms and I'm trying to get a better understanding of the differences. Not sure how I would ask the question without using these terms.


I edited my initial response since you posted a link referring to "real dogs" and the term wasn't really coming from you.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Sportwaffen K9


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

*spor dogs vs. "Real dog" breeders*

Van den Heuvel K9.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I think if you are serious about a PP dog, you buy a young adult or buy a pup from nice lines and raise it from day one for that purpose. Marketing is just that..marketing.

What I look for for family Protection is strong environmentals, decent nerve and good civil aggression.
I recently imported a SL of all things, nice size, big bark low prey but he has the nerve to handle civil agitation and the confidence to fight the aggressor to a certain extent.

There are numerous young sport washouts that lack the drive for the sport and have nice civil aggression if you know where to look.

This myth that high drive equates to bad behavior is nonsense. This is training, even the SL big and lazy as he is had the manners of a rampaging bull. Never lived in the house, had training or been taught impulse control. Most of them come over like that. My Mal next to him is an angel.

A week of training has cured much of that. Same training you apply to any dog.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

+1 to Blitz. 

The way people generally think of prey, fight, and defensive drives is not necessarily reflective of reality. Like Blitz said there's dogs out there that will fight to the death that have near zero prey drive. On the flip side there's dogs out there with so much prey that they will die latched onto a prey item and take a complete beating and just wont let go. Super serious prey bites. Deep, don't move, don't travel on the bite, or relocate. They latch on and ride out the fight like someone riding on a bucking bull. The paradigm of prey, fight, and defense drives sometimes doesn't really reflect the truth of what is really going on.

The ability to cooperate and be controlled is a huge one too. I wouldn't want a dog that doesn't listen well or needs to be constantly checked to stay under stimulus control. I've seen that dog. It might be stable, pretty good environmentally, itching for a fight but still be safeish in public, it might go to bat for you when the going gets hard, but still be a complete jerk of a headstrong dog that you have to constantly bump heads with to get on program and trust me you don't want that dog. They're like honey badgers about getting their own way. You can sting em all you want but if they're getting the honey they just keep doing their own thing. There are dogs out there that can do all that and still listen too and those are the ones you generally want to stick with.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

Thanks guys. My question stems from my desire for a dog that has the lower prey drives that Baillif was talking about but has good fight drive/defense drive that is social, environmentally safe, controllable and able to come alive when needed. 

I assume with a dog like I described, it has to be raised a different way? I hear that if you are raising a sport dog, it is raised differently than a pet dog, but not having experience with any of this, I don't know what "different" means.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

eddie1976E said:


> Thanks guys. My question stems from my desire for a dog that has the lower prey drives that Baillif was talking about but has good fight drive/defense drive that is social, environmentally safe, controllable and able to come alive when needed.
> 
> I assume with a dog like I described, it has to be raised a different way? I hear that if you are raising a sport dog, it is raised differently than a pet dog, but not having experience with any of this, I don't know what "different" means.


The breeder I linked breeds versatile dogs....they can and do excel in sport/tracking and also are involved as protection and LEO K9's. Decades of experience as well. Contact him, he would be happy to answer any of your questions about raising a dog for protection or sport.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

eddie1976E said:


> Thanks guys. My question stems from my desire for a dog that has the lower prey drives that Baillif was talking about but has good fight drive/defense drive that is social, environmentally safe, controllable and able to come alive when needed.
> 
> I assume with a dog like I described, it has to be raised a different way? I hear that if you are raising a sport dog, it is raised differently than a pet dog, but not having experience with any of this, I don't know what "different" means.


No dogs like this do not need to be raised "differently". Good manners, basic obedience - NO, Leave IT, Here, Stay etc are all basic manners and obedience which EVERY dog in every situation should be taught. Many people run into problems letting the puppy "win" all the time - they create monsters that cannot learn to be controlled. A friend with an Eros Mohnwiese son believed in this philosophy and had a 9 month old, aggressive, territorial male who would jump onto his dining room table and steal food when they were having dinner! A very "real" dog due not only to his sire female lines, but to his dam's very very strong pedigree.

I have basically been handling and breeding two female families for about 18 years now - with few exceptions, I can see a distinct difference in my main two families for "real" vs "sport" lines. I also know what to look for in the males to enhance which aspect I want or need to reinforce or temper. I agree that the "real" dogs are not easy to find as the "sport" type has become much more popular. My dogs have plenty of prey and ball drive, but also the power, fight drive and civil aggression that I feel is missing in so many dogs being titled today. They still have more than enough ball drive for training, and as far as "prey" - the man is more important than the sleeve... The females are particularly strong as I started with a strong female and have emphasized that throughout.

Lee


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