# German Shepherd Colors.



## Jessiewessie99

I was randomly googling German Shepherds and came across this:



The only German Shepherd colors I have seen are: Black & Tan, Black & Red, Black, White, Silver Sable, Bi- Colored, & Panda.

I have never seen: Red Sable, Tan("Gold") Sable, Tan & Liver, Liver, Steele Blue, Powder Blue & Tan, or Golden Shepherds.

If anyone has pics of the actual colors I have not seen above please post them. And also if its allowed, name off breeders who do this. Unless, these colorings just happen.

Also breeders feel free to post comments if you have had any of these other colorings.

I just thought this was interesting.


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## RebelMoonGSDs

Found this:

GSD Patterns, Colors, Coat Lengths & More


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## FuryanGoddess

I'm pretty sure that Murphy is a red sable. I'll have to see how his coat looks as he grows, his only 5 wks now


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## Castlemaid

That poster was created by Abbyk9 on this forum (Chris, has Abby and Ronja). A lot of people use it on their website with permission, and some without. 

I've never seen those colours that you mention either - would be very unusual.


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## DJEtzel

I think a lot of those colors are flukes or backyard breeders breeding for bad colors that are unhealthy or unatural (or both!). I certainly wouldn't buy any out of the norm. Most are like mutations with the silver labrador.




FuryanGoddess said:


> I'm pretty sure that Murphy is a red sable. I'll have to see how his coat looks as he grows, his only 5 wks now


Why do you have him so soon?


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## FuryanGoddess

He's not here yet. I got pix of him though


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## DJEtzel

Ah, gotcha! I love red sables. Can't wait till he comes home to you and you can take tons of pictures!


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## FuryanGoddess

Me too... Squeeee... 2 wks and 6 days


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## Emoore

Cash is a tan sable, I think.


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## Jessiewessie99

I wanna see one of those blue dogs.lol


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## Josiebear

Ooh i want me some liver!!! ( the color not food! ).

Those livers are really pretty, are they hard to find?.


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## Lin

Liver and blue are "hard to find," because they are faults or DQ in the breed standard. Breeders that have these colors usually do so because they focus on the colors, but they are throwing the breed standard out the window... And to focus on a color (and a color thats not as common...) severely limits the phenotype. However for those that really love the dilutes, they CAN be found occasionally from responsible breeders as well as in rescue.


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## Jessiewessie99

Are there some reputable breeders who have had these livers and blues on accident, like they didn't breed for it and 1 or 2 of the pups just comes out as this color?


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Are there some reputable breeders who have had these livers and blues on accident, like they didn't breed for it and 1 or 2 of the pups just comes out as this color?


I would imagine this happens with GSDs. I know it happens with labs, anyway. I have a few friends that breed them and every so often one of them will throw a silver lab. Just a fluke, or a defect/mutation.


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## Jessiewessie99

I am assuming they sell them for less since its a fault.


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## DJEtzel

I would assume so, but I don't know. I may have to ask my Friend Caleb next time I see him.

ETA; now that I think about, I would imagine they would just sell them as pet/companion dogs at the normal price for limited registration with no intent to show homes. Most breeders charge more for better quality dogs in the litter, then less for dogs that will just be pets, which it would have to fall into.


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## Holmeshx2

think it would depend on the breeder. If it was a showline breeder they may sell for the same price or cheaper because they know that it can not be shown for the fault. A working line may simply charge the same since the dogs temperment matters most not their looks. Of course poorer breeders would probably sell them for more because instead of considering it a fault they pass it off as "unique" or "exotic"


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## Jessiewessie99

i still want to see one though.lol


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## Holmeshx2

lol I would like to see the steel blue one. I can tell the dilute black on the powder blue ones but I can't see any difference in the pics from the steel blue ones and the solid blacks.. may possibly be my computer or just the picture but I can't tell anything lol.


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## acurajane

Hey thanks for posting this. It was really neat to look at


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## Jessiewessie99

I know, I never knew GSDs could be blue.lol


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## Kruzayn

Nero could be considered "Red" sable i think, though it varies from red to tan in different parts of his body. Looking close to his head it is quite red, but towards his haunches and his hind leg fur its light tan.


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## Lin

I wouldn't consider that red, looks typical tan to me. Red is the same as tan genetically but the pigment is much richer.


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## tkarsjens

There are a lot of pictures of blues and livers on this web site:

BlueDogs - Find Information about Blue, Liver and Izabella colored German Shepherd Dogs!


Tracie Karsjens
www.atlaskennels.com


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## LaRen616

I have seen a silver sable, tan sable, red sable, black sable

I *love* Black sables and Red sables. 

I'm getting a black sable female next year and in another 2-3 years If I am ready I might get a red sable as well :wub:


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## Jessiewessie99

tkarsjens said:


> There are a lot of pictures of blues and livers on this web site:
> 
> BlueDogs - Find Information about Blue, Liver and Izabella colored German Shepherd Dogs!
> 
> 
> Tracie Karsjens
> www.atlaskennels.com


They have blue eyes?lol. One of those dogs look like the "Chocolate" GSD someone posted a thread about.


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## AbbyK9

The Color Chart is one of my designs.  I have it on my blog, still, but with a big copyright notice across since people keep using it without my permission or a link back to me. (Very frustrating, by the way.)

The Kerstone Shepherds website that was linked further up in this thread - GSD Patterns, Colors, Coat Lengths & More - has an excellent selection of photos showing the different colors, including blues and livers. If you want to see them, that would be the place to go. GREAT site on showing the different colors. Incidentally, they also breed for colors, including faulty ones like blue and liver.


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## Tyson722

I am not sure what Tyson would be... I am new to the GSD world so colors are completely new to me. This is not the greatest picture but its all I have uploaded right now.

SO what do yall think?


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## DJEtzel

Tyson722 said:


> I am not sure what Tyson would be... I am new to the GSD world so colors are completely new to me. This is not the greatest picture but its all I have uploaded right now.
> 
> SO what do yall think?


Looks like a blanket back black/tan to me. Although I see a very fine line between bicolor and blanket.


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## Chris Wild

Definitely blanket black/tan. Way too much tan to e a bi-color.


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## CindyM

Black and Silver is a color too?


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## Chris Wild

CindyM said:


> Black and Silver is a color too?


Not really. 
Black/tan, black/red, black/silver, black/cream are all the same thing genetically, except for the hue of the tan pigment. All are black/tan. The "red" and "silver" are non-technical terms used to describe the color of the tan pigment. A black/silver is just a black/tan with faded pigment. A black/red is just a black/tan with rich tan pigment.

Same goes for half the sable "colors". Silver sable is a sable with faded tan pigment, red sable is a sable with rich red pigment, etc.... Black sable is just a sable with extensive black markings (a melanistic sable). Just as "blanket black and tan" is a melanistic black/tan.


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## aviator0218

*picture of Gabi*

Here is a picture of Gabi.As you can see she is mostly a honey color.Her mama was her color and her papa was black and tan.I think there were nine in her litter.Some were her color some were black and tan and two were solid black.


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## AbbyK9

> Not really.
> Black/tan, black/red, black/silver, black/cream are all the same thing genetically, except for the hue of the tan pigment. All are black/tan. The "red" and "silver" are non-technical terms used to describe the color of the tan pigment. A black/silver is just a black/tan with faded pigment. A black/red is just a black/tan with rich tan pigment.
> 
> Same goes for half the sable "colors". Silver sable is a sable with faded tan pigment, red sable is a sable with rich red pigment, etc.... Black sable is just a sable with extensive black markings (a melanistic sable). Just as "blanket black and tan" is a melanistic black/tan.


^ Which I tried to explain in the color chart.


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## Jessiewessie99

AbbyK9 said:


> The Color Chart is one of my designs.  I have it on my blog, still, but with a big copyright notice across since people keep using it without my permission or a link back to me. (Very frustrating, by the way.)
> 
> The Kerstone Shepherds website that was linked further up in this thread - GSD Patterns, Colors, Coat Lengths & More - has an excellent selection of photos showing the different colors, including blues and livers. If you want to see them, that would be the place to go. GREAT site on showing the different colors. Incidentally, they also breed for colors, including faulty ones like blue and liver.


Oh i wasn't trying to steal it.lol I saw it on google.lol


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## tkarsjens

Jessiewessie99 said:


> They have blue eyes?lol. One of those dogs look like the "Chocolate" GSD someone posted a thread about.


The brown color in GSDs is called liver and there are lots of pics of livers on that site as well.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## Chicagocanine

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Are there some reputable breeders who have had these livers and blues on accident, like they didn't breed for it and 1 or 2 of the pups just comes out as this color?


Yep that does happen, it is possible to get a blue or liver dog from a reputable breeder who did not purposefully breed for that color. Same as the long-coated Shepherds it just pops up sometimes due to the blue being a recessive gene.


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## My GSD

Why do sables have to change colors and not remain like this!!!


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## AbbyK9

> Oh i wasn't trying to steal it.lol I saw it on google.lol


Not to be rude, but you did steal it - you saved it to your Photobucket and then posted it to this forum without asking permission. That's stealing. 

I don't mind it when people save the image to their computers for personal reference or if they print it out to show people. I also don't mind if people use it on their blogs or websites, as long as it includes my copyright notice and a link back to me. But it does bother me when people go ahead and post it elsewhere (like on forums) without asking and without attribution.

Just because it's on Google doesn't mean it's free.


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## Jessiewessie99

AbbyK9 said:


> Not to be rude, but you did steal it - you saved it to your Photobucket and then posted it to this forum without asking permission. That's stealing.
> 
> I don't mind it when people save the image to their computers for personal reference or if they print it out to show people. I also don't mind if people use it on their blogs or websites, as long as it includes my copyright notice and a link back to me. But it does bother me when people go ahead and post it elsewhere (like on forums) without asking and without attribution.
> 
> Just because it's on Google doesn't mean it's free.


I didn't even know it was yours. So how was I supposed to give you credit? I didn't even know it belonged to you until I found out on here. 

I posted this picture because I wanted to know about the other colors listed on it. I posted the picuture to show people.

Once again, I didn't meant to steal it, because I didn't know it belong to you. If I did know ahead of time that this picture belonged to you I would have given you credit. But since I didn't thats why I didn't give yu credit.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I think a lot of those colors are flukes or backyard breeders breeding for bad colors that are unhealthy or unatural (or both!). I certainly wouldn't buy any out of the norm. Most are like mutations with the silver labrador.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you have him so soon?


No, most of thse colors are NOT flukes or form BYBs. They are not bad colors, nor are they uhealthy. And they are not mutations, notare they out of the norm.


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> No, most of thse colors are NOT flukes or form BYBs. They are not bad colors, nor are they uhealthy. And they are not mutations, notare they out of the norm.


If they're breeding dogs of these colors then they're likely backyard breeders. Otherwise, breeders of say, sables, don't intend to throw a blue pup, so it's a fluke. Just a coincidence that one happens to come out. I never said the colors were unhealthy, but that if a backyard breeder is breeding the dogs, then the dogs themselves are probably unhealthy. Of course, the more the backyard breeders breed colors like this, the more the color mutates, or changes, and more colors come out. 

They are out of the norm. Liver, blue, powder blue? How many have you seen? They're faults in AKC, so they aren't bred by reputable breeders, so they're out of the norm. Tieing in with the fact that most of these dogs being bred purposefully are from backyard breeders.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I think a lot of those colors are flukes or backyard breeders breeding for *bad colors that are unhealthy or unatural (or both!*). I certainly wouldn't buy any out of the norm. Most are like mutations with the silver labrador.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you have him so soon?


I wouldn't say being a certain color is unhealthy. Many responsible GSD breeders have these colors pop up. I think Liver is now a acceptable color in some cases. I could be wrong.


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## DJEtzel

I stated that I didn't meant that the colors were unhealthy, the dogs that byb are breeding are unhealthy. Yes, reputable breeders throw them occasionally as a fluke, and they're usually perfectly healthy, but they aren't bred. 

Liver might be acceptable to people, a lot of colors are acceptable to people, but not AKC. It's still a fault there. But if a liver can get through akc with a serious fault like that, then more power to him. No reason why they shouldn't be bred then, I just don't think that they are getting through the show ring in those colors, so I don't know why they would be acceptable by a reputable breeder or knowledgable owners.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I stated that I didn't meant that the colors were unhealthy, the dogs that byb are breeding are unhealthy. Yes, reputable breeders throw them occasionally as a fluke, and they're usually perfectly healthy, but they aren't bred.
> 
> Liver might be acceptable to people, a lot of colors are acceptable to people, but not AKC. It's still a fault there. But if a liver can get through akc with a serious fault like that, then more power to him. No reason why they shouldn't be bred then, I just don't think that they are getting through the show ring in those colors, so I don't know why they would be acceptable by a reputable breeder or knowledgable owners.


You know the AKC isn't the only kennel club right? UKC recognize White GSDs, also I think they accept Liver too.


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## DJEtzel

Lol, yes, but winning in the show ring in AKC is a much harder thing to do and IMO judges breeding stock more faithfully than UKC. UKC from what I've read is not just for evaluating stock, if at all, it's more of a for fun thing. You can show neutered dogs in ukc apparently too, which defeats the purpose of conformation.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> Lol, yes, but winning in the show ring in AKC is a much harder thing to do and IMO judges breeding stock more faithfully than UKC. UKC from what I've read is not just for evaluating stock, if at all, it's more of a for fun thing. You can show neutered dogs in ukc apparently too, which defeats the purpose of conformation.


I think both judg relatively the same, but yes AKC is harder. I don't think white should be DQ when the grandfather of the first registed GSD was white, so in a way, IMO, white should not be a fault, since its in its history.


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## Mrs.K

DJEtzel said:


> Lol, yes, but winning in the show ring in AKC is a much harder thing to do and IMO judges breeding stock more faithfully than UKC. UKC from what I've read is not just for evaluating stock, if at all, it's more of a for fun thing. You can show neutered dogs in ukc apparently too, which defeats the purpose of conformation.


So I guess I can't show my female anymore because I had to get her spayed?


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## Jessiewessie99

Mrs.K said:


> So I guess I can't show my female anymore because I had to get her spayed?


I guess not. =( But if I had my own kennel club I would let you show your female spayed or not


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## Mrs.K

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I guess not. =( But if I had my own kennel club I would let you show your female spayed or not


Ya know... why not holding a show for spayed dogs?


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## JakodaCD OA

they do for aussies,,) In ASCA, (australian shep club of america)..there are altered conformation classes..


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## arycrest

Several (maybe all???) WGSD clubs also have classes (and titles) for altered dogs. In fact, I might show Faith at the WGSDCA's National that will be held down here this Fall.


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I think both judg relatively the same, but yes AKC is harder. I don't think white should be DQ when the grandfather of the first registed GSD was white, so in a way, IMO, white should not be a fault, since its in its history.


I don't think White GSDs should be a DQ either, I'm not arguing against that in any way. But they are unfortunately, and until AKC changes that, there's not disputing the fact that they are. 

Yes, they judge relatively the same, but AKC judges for breeding stock, so they have to be unaltered. I don't see a point in showing altered animals except maybe for experience, but I know a lot of ring procedures in akc v. ukc are a lot different and can mess you up if you're showing in both, so there must be a difference somewhere. 



Mrs.K said:


> So I guess I can't show my female anymore because I had to get her spayed?


You can in ukc. AKC doesn't judge altered animals though because they're a show of judging breeding stock, which altered animals cannot be.


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## AbbyK9

> I didn't even know it was yours. So how was I supposed to give you credit? I didn't even know it belonged to you until I found out on here.
> 
> I posted this picture because I wanted to know about the other colors listed on it. I posted the picuture to show people.
> 
> Once again, I didn't meant to steal it, because I didn't know it belong to you. If I did know ahead of time that this picture belonged to you I would have given you credit. But since I didn't thats why I didn't give yu credit.


[/QUOTE]

I would be happy to explain how this works, for future reference.

Let's say you go to Google images and you enter "German Shepherd" into your search. A variety of graphics comes up, and you click on the one that catches your eye or is what you're looking for.

Clicking on this brings you to a new page, which has a bar at the top in which the preview image is displayed, along with a link ("See Full Size Image"), the image dimensions and link where it is located, and a notice, "Image may be subject to copyright."

Below this top bar, the page where the image is located is now displayed - usually it's a website, but sometimes it's a blog or another forum. Regardless, you now have a way of finding out whether you may use the graphic - by contacting the owner of the website or blog, or the person who posted it to the forum. That's how you get permission and find out whom the image belongs to.

Simply saving it and posting it elsewhere online is stealing and violating the copyright of the person the image belongs to, whether you mean to steal it, or whether you just have questions about it. If you don't know whom it belongs to or you cannot get permission to use it, POST A LINK for people to see the graphic and ask your question.

Simple.

Look at it this way - if you spent a lot of time working on a graphic or on a great photo, would you like to see it posted all over the Internet without your permission? On breeders' websites? Edited by people? What if you made money from your products by selling them as prints or posters?


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## Jessiewessie99

Mrs.K said:


> Ya know... why not holding a show for spayed dogs?


Thats an awesome idea!lol.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I don't think White GSDs should be a DQ either, I'm not arguing against that in any way. But they are unfortunately, and until AKC changes that, there's not disputing the fact that they are.
> 
> Yes, they judge relatively the same, but AKC judges for breeding stock, so they have to be unaltered. I don't see a point in showing altered animals except maybe for experience, but I know a lot of ring procedures in akc v. ukc are a lot different and can mess you up if you're showing in both, so there must be a difference somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> You can in ukc. AKC doesn't judge altered animals though because they're a show of judging breeding stock, which altered animals cannot be.


 
I don't think all AKC Shows judge that way.


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I don't think all AKC Shows judge that way.


Judge what way? 

THEE point of conformation shows in AKC is to judge breeding stock and soley that. That's why they have to be intact to show them, otherwise it's pointless because they can't be bred.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> Judge what way?
> 
> THEE point of conformation shows in AKC is to judge breeding stock and soley that. That's why they have to be intact to show them, otherwise it's pointless because they can't be bred.


Not all shows, some Agility, Rally, and Obiedience(I believe AKC judges thoe shows). Its also to show which dog represents its breed the best.


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Not all shows, some Agility, Rally, and Obiedience(I believe AKC judges thoe shows). Its also to show which dog represents its breed the best.


Lol, I'm talking conformation shows. When people are talking about showing in regards to AKC at least, they mean conformation showing, otherwise they specify what performance event they're showing in. 

The point of the show ring is to represent quality breeding stock- those that represent the breed standard the best.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> Lol, I'm talking conformation shows. When people are talking about showing in regards to AKC at least, they mean conformation showing, otherwise they specify what performance event they're showing in.
> 
> The point of the show ring is to represent quality breeding stock- those that represent the breed standard the best.


You were saying that AKC only judges for breeding stock.


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## DJEtzel

Mhmm, and we're talking about conformation here, these colors have no merit towards anything in performance events. So in regards to conformation, yes, AKC only judges for breeding stock, not for fun like UKC.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I don't think White GSDs should be a DQ either, I'm not arguing against that in any way. But they are unfortunately, and until AKC changes that, there's not disputing the fact that they are.
> 
> Yes, they judge relatively the same, *but AKC judges for breeding stock, so they have to be unaltered.* I don't see a point in showing altered animals except maybe for experience, but I know a lot of ring procedures in akc v. ukc are a lot different and can mess you up if you're showing in both, so there must be a difference somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> You can in ukc. AKC doesn't judge altered animals though because they're a show of judging breeding stock, which altered animals cannot be.


Not all show ring winners are good breeding stock. The AKC main judging goal is not for breeding stock, its to see who is the best of its breed. And if they win, it shows they are of good quality and should be able to breed and pass on its qualities to the offspring, but sometimes the dog may not turn out to be good breeding stock, they may not produce champions.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> Mhmm, and we're talking about conformation here, these colors have no merit towards anything in performance events. So in regards to conformation, yes, AKC only judges for breeding stock, not for fun like UKC.


UKC is not only for fun.Its for working dogs, the AKC is mostly for show dogs. UKC try to show whether or not he dog can work a good as it looks. Where as AKC is mostly show, that is from what I have read.


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Not all show ring winners are good breeding stock. The AKC main judging goal is not for breeding stock, its to see who is the best of its breed. And if they win, it shows they are of good quality and should be able to breed and pass on its qualities to the offspring, but sometimes the dog may not turn out to be good breeding stock, they may not produce champions.


You really need to read up on your showing information, because you don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about. You're just bringing up things to argue about that make no sense. 

The AKC show ring IS to judge breeding stock; unaltered dogs that represent their breed the best. The best of the breed is the same as proving they are good breeding stock; they are the epitome of the breed, and are as perfect as the standard can get, so they are considered good breeding stock because they have the best traits of the GSD to breed to produce more dogs that are likely to have the same great GSD traits, physically speaking.



Jessiewessie99 said:


> UKC is not only for fun.Its for working dogs, the AKC is mostly for show dogs. UKC try to show whether or not he dog can work a good as it looks. Where as AKC is mostly show, that is from what I have read.


No, conformation is for showing what the breed looks like, period. The UKC's conformation does not tie in with and performance or working events, and neither does the AKCs. There are plenty of 'working dogs' titled in AKC, they have performance events too. There are just different rules and goals for the two clubs, that's all.


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## Mrs.K

> You really need to read up on your showing information, because you don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about. You're just bringing up things to argue about that make no sense.
> 
> The AKC show ring IS to judge breeding stock; unaltered dogs that represent their breed the best. The best of the breed is the same as proving they are good breeding stock; they are the epitome of the breed, and are as perfect as the standard can get, so they are considered good breeding stock because they have the best traits of the GSD to breed to produce more dogs that are likely to have the same great GSD traits, physically speaking.


Etzel, I hate to say it. 

But she's right with this part.


> but sometimes the dog may not turn out to be good breeding stock, they may not produce champions.


 Just because you have a Champion at home, doesn't mean that he's producing Champions. We've had that a lot of times in Germany. People run to the most succesful dogs just to find out that the offspring isn't all that what they expected...

If he's a champion that's passing on his genes than you've got a true winner.

Oh and by the way, let her argue. If I got that right she's still a young girl and here to learn. (correct me if I am wrong Jessi).


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## Jessiewessie99

Mrs.K said:


> Etzel, I hate to say it.
> 
> But she's right with this part. Just because you have a Champion at home, doesn't mean that he's producing Champions. We've had that a lot of times in Germany. People run to the most succesful dogs just to find out that the offspring isn't all that what they expected...
> 
> If he's a champion that's passing on his genes than you've got a true winner.
> 
> Oh and by the way, let her argue. If I got that right she's still a young girl and here to learn. (correct me if I am wrong Jessi).


Yes, I am a young girl and here to learn, thats why I posted this thread. Just because I am arguing doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.The real test comes is when a dog is able to pass on his qualities to his offsrping. Same with racehorses, show horses, etc. You can have a horse who won the Kentucky Derby and some Breeder's cup races and was bred with another horse who was also a champion racer, but yet have horses who are not even racing quality. And also a side to do with horses, one of the best racehorses was actually gelded, which means he could not make foals(Funny Cide)

Etzel-You are also young, younger than me, and still have a lot to learn. No offense you send off the vibe of "I know it all" kind of person. I am not saying that you are, but thats the vibe I am getting.


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## Mrs.K

How old are you guys, actually? Just to have a general understanding


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## Mrs.K

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Yes, I am a young girl and here to learn, thats why I posted this thread. Just because I am arguing doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.*The real test comes is when a dog is able to pass on his qualities to his offsrping. Same with racehorses, show horses, etc. You can have a horse who won the Kentucky Derby and some Breeder's cup races and was bred with another horse who was also a champion racer, but yet have horses who are not even racing quality.* And also a side to do with horses, one of the best racehorses was actually gelded, which means he could not make foals(Funny Cide)
> 
> Etzel-You are also young, younger than me, and still have a lot to learn. No offense you send off the vibe of "I know it all" kind of person. I am not saying that you are, but thats the vibe I am getting.


And this is very true. It's the same with lines. You can have the best of the working lines and your dog still doesn't have it. Same with litters 9 out of 10 puppies have it but the last one is the one that just doesn't have it. 

You never know what you get. It's pretty much a gamble.


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## Jessiewessie99

Mrs.K said:


> And this is very true. It's the same with lines. You can have the best of the working lines and your dog still doesn't have it. Same with litters 9 out of 10 puppies have it but the last one is the one that just doesn't have it.
> 
> You never know what you get. It's pretty much a gamble.


Yep, I was reading about other breeders and they may have 2 high drive parents, and there maybe 1 or 2 pups who are medium or low drive. I am thinking about working lines when I get another dog. I think is the reason why breeders rahter choose the puppy rather than the puppy buyer. There was an arguement about this on another forum. I much rather have a breeder choose my puppy because they know what to expect and have an idea what the puppies will be like. And then color comes into the picture.

I am 18 btw and 19 in november. ended 1st year of college!


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## DJEtzel

Mrs.K said:


> Etzel, I hate to say it.
> 
> But she's right with this part. Just because you have a Champion at home, doesn't mean that he's producing Champions. We've had that a lot of times in Germany. People run to the most succesful dogs just to find out that the offspring isn't all that what they expected...
> 
> If he's a champion that's passing on his genes than you've got a true winner.
> 
> Oh and by the way, let her argue. If I got that right she's still a young girl and here to learn. (correct me if I am wrong Jessi).


Oh, I'm not arguing about the quality of the dogs the CH actually produces, just talking about the point of the AKC show ring and that is to judge breeding stock. There's only so much that can be helped once they're bred, and that's fair game. 



Jessiewessie99 said:


> Yes, I am a young girl and here to learn, thats why I posted this thread. Just because I am arguing doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.The real test comes is when a dog is able to pass on his qualities to his offsrping. Same with racehorses, show horses, etc. You can have a horse who won the Kentucky Derby and some Breeder's cup races and was bred with another horse who was also a champion racer, but yet have horses who are not even racing quality. And also a side to do with horses, one of the best racehorses was actually gelded, which means he could not make foals(Funny Cide)
> 
> Etzel-You are also young, younger than me, and still have a lot to learn. No offense you send off the vibe of "I know it all" kind of person. I am not saying that you are, but thats the vibe I am getting.


I am younger than you, and I do have a lot to learn, you're right, but if I know something that you don't and can contribute to your threads, I will. That is the point of forums, anyway. I'm not trying to be any sort of know it all person; if you've read any of my other threads here or -there- you'd know that there are a lot of things I don't know. I just offer information to correct whatever issue you're having and you completely reject the knowledge, then we get into an argument because you couldn't just understand the first thing I said. 



Mrs.K said:


> How old are you guys, actually? Just to have a general understanding


18 in July, just finished my first semester of college.  I double dipped in high school.


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## Jessiewessie99

I also dislike it when it someone shoves information in my face as if they everything about something and think I won't do anything to help my dog when I would.


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## DJEtzel

What information did I shove in your face?


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## Jessiewessie99

Basically everything I already know, and I didn't think I should repeat it. You kept repeating the same information about overweight dogs and I already knew it. Sorry but you have always sent that vibe off as if you know everything.


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## DJEtzel

I didn't shove any information in your face that you accepted you already knew. You kept giving signs that Tanner was overweight, and he looked it, so I commented on it. Simple as that. If I come off as acting as if I know everything then I apologize, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize a dog is overweight.


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I didn't shove any information in your face that you accepted you already knew. You kept giving signs that Tanner was overweight, and he looked it, so I commented on it. Simple as that. If I come off as acting as if I know everything then I apologize, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize a dog is overweight.



wel he isn't if you actually read the most recent posts before they were closed you know he isn't.

I didn't ask about his weight. He has a tuck, I can feel his ribs but can't see them. I have repeated this many times. But you fail to read that. And you are thinking he is overweight, unhealthy and unhappy based on pictures. You can't really call a dog unhealthy if you have never actually seen, met or petted the dog.


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## JakodaCD OA

alright girlz, sheesh, you two seem to be constantly nit picking each other.. 

You are BOTH just about the same age, (months apart is semantics) . This thread was about COLORS not weight. 

You two sound like squabbling sisters, try to stay on topic eh?


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> wel he isn't if you actually read the most recent posts before they were closed you know he isn't.
> 
> I didn't ask about his weight. He has a tuck, I can feel his ribs but can't see them. I have repeated this many times. But you fail to read that. And you are thinking he is overweight, unhealthy and unhappy based on pictures. You can't really call a dog unhealthy if you have never actually seen, met or petted the dog.


I did read the threads, and you changed your mind about 10x in them. First you said that you couldn't feel them, then you could/couldn't, and now you can. I didn't fail to read anything. You also tried justifying that he wasn't overweight by giving a bunch of facts about how he walks and sits that are no determination of it whatsoever. 

You can easily tell if a dog is unhealthy without meeting him or petting him. You can tell when dogs are overweight, matted, have inflamed skin, etc. Believe me, as a vet tech assistant, I see a lot and touch less, I know. Their personality has nothing to do with it, and yes, there are some things you need to touch a dog to tell or gauge, but weight is usually not one. 

I'm not going to argue with you about it. You don't think he's overweight and you're not going to change his food or intake, and that's completely you or your parent's decision. If anything happens or he becomes more overweight, that's a fault on you. If nothing happens and he doesn't gain weight, then great!


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## DJEtzel

sorry Jakoda. 

I've tried dropping it numerous times but she just keeps bringing it up. I'm done with anything not involving color now.


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## JakodaCD OA

thanks DJ


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## Jessiewessie99

DJEtzel said:


> I did read the threads, and you changed your mind about 10x in them. First you said that you couldn't feel them, then you could/couldn't, and now you can. I didn't fail to read anything. You also tried justifying that he wasn't overweight by giving a bunch of facts about how he walks and sits that are no determination of it whatsoever.
> 
> You can easily tell if a dog is unhealthy without meeting him or petting him. You can tell when dogs are overweight, matted, have inflamed skin, etc. Believe me, as a vet tech assistant, I see a lot and touch less, I know. Their personality has nothing to do with it, and yes, there are some things you need to touch a dog to tell or gauge, but weight is usually not one.
> 
> I'm not going to argue with you about it. *You don't think he's overweight and you're not going to change his food or intake*, and that's completely you or your parent's decision. If anything happens or he becomes more overweight, that's a fault on you. If nothing happens and he doesn't gain weight, then great!


Until you have an actual Ph.D next to your name then I can't believe you think a dog is unhealthy. You can't make actual definite statements based on pictures. I think you need more schooling to be a vet tech assistant(such as more degrees). Thats from what I have read and heard.

I don't think my dog is overweight, and if he was don't say I would change his habits or food intake. Since he isn't there is no need to change it, but if he was, I wouldn't change. He hasn't gained any weight or lost any. I kept my final statements final and didn't change them.

Sorry Jakoda. I tried to make that clear in my other thread, and on another forum, but people insisted on bringing up his weight.


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## JakodaCD OA

Enough about the Weight Jessie, you are the one who brought it up in this post so please STOP give it a rest 
thank you.


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## DJEtzel

Jessiewessie99 said:


> Until you have an actual Ph.D next to your name then I can't believe you think a dog is unhealthy. You can't make actual definite statements based on pictures. *I think you need more schooling to be a vet tech assistant(such as more degrees). Thats from what I have read and heard.*
> 
> I don't think my dog is overweight, and if he was don't say I would change his habits or food intake. *Since he isn't there is no need to change it, but if he was, I wouldn't change.* He hasn't gained any weight or lost any. I kept my final statements final and didn't change them.
> 
> Sorry Jakoda. I tried to make that clear in my other thread, and on another forum, but people insisted on bringing up his weight.


First, yes, it's a two year program a lot of tech schools, but that's to be a vet assistant, I'm an informal assistant to the vet tech and vet at the humane society I volunteer for- administering shots, weighing animals, checking temps, giving pills/scrips, etc. 

Second, you wouldn't change his food or intake levels if he WAS overweight? I don't know how you can say that and think that you're a responsible pet owner. 

If you'd like to keep the thread on topic, then by all means do so and stop bringing up his weight. I've dropped it so you should too.


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## Jessiewessie99

JakodaCD OA said:


> Enough about the Weight Jessie, you are the one who brought it up in this post so please STOP give it a rest
> thank you.


Sorry had to make it clear that I would do something if I saw that it was needed.

And nobody has posted a picture of a Blue Steele colored GSD!lol


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## JKlatsky

Did you look at the links?
Kerstone Shepherds - GSD Colors, page 1

Scroll down to the Blues where they show you some examples.


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## Jessiewessie99

JKlatsky said:


> Did you look at the links?
> Kerstone Shepherds - GSD Colors, page 1
> 
> Scroll down to the Blues where they show you some examples.


they look more black.lol


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## JKlatsky

Yes they do. That's sort of the point. More gun-metal than Weimerainer (which would be the powder blue variation)


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## tkarsjens

Misconceptions about UKC - a couple of clarifications:

UKC has a conformation program that is for intact dogs only. They are judged against a breed standard just like in AKC and judges and exhibitors take it just as seriously as AKC.

The UKC championship is easier to earn than the AKC championship, but UKC offers a Grand Championship. This title is usually much harder to earn than the UKC Championship. I consider the UKC championship to be a "starter" and the Grand Championship to be the ultimate goal in UKC. In some parts of the country, there is a great deal of competition for this title.

UKC also offers an altered program, but it is completely SEPERATE from the classes for intact dogs. Altered dogs can earn titles but they are different titles (an altered CH vs a CH) and altered dogs _never_ compete against intact dogs.

The UKC standard faults blues and livers just like AKC. The only difference in terms of color between the standards is that UKC does not fault white GSDs.

I have a great respect for AKC conformation and I know how hard it can be. The quality of dogs is high and competition is tough. But UKC is not a joke or just for fun. It is fun, IMO, but the competition can be tough as well and the quality of dogs can be very good as well.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## Jessiewessie99

tkarsjens said:


> Misconceptions about UKC - a couple of clarifications:
> 
> UKC has a conformation program that is for intact dogs only. They are judged against a breed standard just like in AKC and judges and exhibitors take it just as seriously as AKC.
> 
> The UKC championship is easier to earn than the AKC championship, but UKC offers a Grand Championship. This title is usually much harder to earn than the UKC Championship. I consider the UKC championship to be a "starter" and the Grand Championship to be the ultimate goal in UKC. In some parts of the country, there is a great deal of competition for this title.
> 
> UKC also offers an altered program, but it is completely SEPERATE from the classes for intact dogs. Altered dogs can earn titles but they are different titles (an altered CH vs a CH) and altered dogs _never_ compete against intact dogs.
> 
> The UKC standard faults blues and livers just like AKC. The only difference in terms of color between the standards is that UKC does not fault white GSDs.
> 
> I have a great respect for AKC conformation and I know how hard it can be. The quality of dogs is high and competition is tough. But UKC is not a joke or just for fun. It is fun, IMO, but the competition can be tough as well and the quality of dogs can be very good as well.
> 
> Tracie
> www.atlaskennels.com



:thumbup:


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## onyx'girl

This is a blue pup from a really,really bad oops litter. Mom and dad(both black) are brother/sister and the "breeder" was out of town when they tied. Luckily only 3 pups were born, two black and the blue. The vet suggested letting mom go thru with the pregnancy so this is what resulted. According to the owner the dogs are not smart. She kept the blue and gave the two black pups to family & friend, she didn't sell them and fixed dad immediately. These pics were taken after a few days of rain, so they were a muddy mess~ 3 months old, just before the black one went to new family:


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## Jessiewessie99

The puppy's face in the last picture tugs at my heart.


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## Jessiewessie99

OK....I have heard of GSDs having blue or green eyes...is that even healthy or allowed?

I don't think its healthy or allowed.


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## AbbyK9

> OK....I have heard of GSDs having blue or green eyes...is that even healthy or allowed? I don't think its healthy or allowed.


I have never seen a picture of a German Shepherd with green eyes, although I've seen them with yellow eyes and blue eyes. 

As far as blue eyes go, I have only ever seen photos of one black-tan German Shepherd that had two blue eyes - it was a rescue dog and posted to this forum some time ago. There is some doubt as to whether that dog was purebred or mixed, however, as it was a rescue and its background was unknown.

There are blue-eyed dogs in the "panda" Shepherds, which are (supposedly) proven to be purebred German Shepherds. In that case, I would assume that the same genetics that affect the coloring in the body of the dog and cause the tri-color pattern are responsible for the blue eye or eyes. 

AFAIK, no health or genetic issues have been connected to the panda gene yet, so at this point, it would be safe to say that having blue eyes is "healthy". (How can eye color be unhealthy, anyway? Unless the genetics that are responsible for the eye color also affect something in the health department ...)

As far as "allowed", the AKC standard says "_Eyes_ of medium size, almond shaped, set a little obliquely and not protruding. The color is as dark as possible." It does not specify whether any eye color is a serious fault or cause for disqualification, however. I don't suppose a dog with blue eyes would do well in the ring, though.


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## tkarsjens

AbbyK9 said:


> There are blue-eyed dogs in the "panda" Shepherds, which are (supposedly) proven to be purebred German Shepherds. In that case, I would assume that the same genetics that affect the coloring in the body of the dog and cause the tri-color pattern are responsible for the blue eye or eyes.


Only the original mutated dog Franka (the first panda) had blue eyes. Her puppies and all subsequent Pandas have normal eyes as far as I know.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## tkarsjens

Jessiewessie99 said:


> OK....I have heard of GSDs having blue or green eyes...is that even healthy or allowed?
> 
> I don't think its healthy or allowed.


Liver GSDS can have green or blue eyes as pups although it can change as they grow up to a light brown.

Again refer to BlueDogs - Find Information about Blue, Liver and Izabella colored German Shepherd Dogs! for pics of livers with these eye colors.

It's not unhealthy but it's not accepted in the standard.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com


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## selzer

Actually, ALL pups have blue eyes. Only they darken to amber/brown usually before they go to their new homes. 

Blue eyes as an adult dog should be pretty rare, in the least, undesireable.


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## Jessiewessie99

The reason I asked about the green eyes and blue eyes is because on another forum, someone was saying their uncle bred GSDs to be patrol dogs and bred for all the wrong reasons and some of them had green eyes. 

I thought it was strangest thing. Cool but weird.

There is a dog at my shelter who looks like a pure bred but has one brown eye and blue eye. I am going to the shelter on Friday to see her.


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## arycrest

I've only seen one GSD with green eyes. It was a liver (actually a rich chocolate) and she had these beautiful emerald green eyes.


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## LaRen616

arycrest said:


> I've only seen one GSD with green eyes. It was a liver (actually a rich chocolate) and she had these beautiful emerald green eyes.


 
She sounds stunning!


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