# 'Engagement' NOT obedience is the 1st goal with training



## MaggieRoseLee

EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! Look how frequently and fast she's using the food!





 
Also shows why treats are NOT bribes but vital tools in training!


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## AgileGSD

Only got to watch the first one but very good video! You simply can't get that with correction based training. I love the little Mal pup-pup too :wub:


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## Jason L

Great videos and an excellent example of how to train a puppy with food. One thing you hear Ellis says over and over again is if the dog is not engaged with you, if you have to call the dog to you, then he is not ready for training.


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## Samba

That is a great video. Super illustration, as you mentioned of the rate of reward.

I think it often hard for people to understand just how fast you need to reward at first. I used to set a timer for a minute and try to see how many reward events I could get in. Frequency is very important at first!


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## Elaine

She is teaching obedience and this is how I do it to except I use strips of food and not bits. This is why I start training obedience so early. It's so easy.


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## LondonnZack

Very cool, i havent seen his vids before, is it better to train with just food and engagement than clicker & treats? Personal opinions of course. This is what ive been using so far.


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## Andaka

I wouldn't say that one is "better" than the other. They are very similar techniques -- one uses a mechanical marker (the clicker) and the other uses a verbal marker ( the word "yes"). I prefer the verbal marker as I always have my voice with me, but it you are new to dog training, the clicker is a wonderful tool also.


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## nysirk

I prefer to use a verbal marker as well, although the clicker is really great due to the consistency, and the fact there is no human emotions involved at all. Great videos! love love love Michal Ellis!!!


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## Stosh

I saw that video last week and it inspired me to buy the Michael Ellis dvd- my 10 mo old male is having a serious case of the "I don't want to's", hopefully this fun and rewarding training will help.


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## MaggieRoseLee

I like using the clicker cause it reminds ME to reward with the food. Problem with me and just verbals is I tend to talk/chat/praise all the time, so kind of muddies the training waters with the THAT was what I wanted and NOW you get the reward. So the clicker makes me become a better trainer (which is amazily better for my puppies  ).

It's the same idea though. Look at the puppy and it's attitude/engagement with the training. That's the goal and if you are getting that crazy attention and drive towards yourself and the training, and it continues as the puppy ages, then you are on the right track.


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## JuliePgh

How do you know if a dog is well-engaged with the owner? I feel like my pup looks at the treats more than me!


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## Cassidy's Mom

JuliePgh said:


> I feel like my pup looks at the treats more than me!


Keep the treats out of sight. Only pull out the reward when s/he DOES look at you. You don't even have to have them on your person, they can be somewhere nearby so you have to go get them. Also, work on focus by holding food in your hands and marking and rewarding when the dog looks away from it and up at you.


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## MaggieRoseLee

JuliePgh said:


> How do you know if a dog is well-engaged with the owner? I feel like my pup looks at the treats more than me!


The biggest sign of engagement is the pup is still with/on/ontop of you (not wandering off).

And when you get good at marking a behavior (and I have to use the clicker) FAST and clearly enough (using tons and tons of frequent treats) your pup will not only be with/on/ontop of you but offering behaviors with blazing speed (sit/down/sit/up/shake/sit/down/shake...).

Engagement is that the puppy wants to be with you and learning/playing WITH you more than anything else that may be going on in the big wide world around you! Once you have that focus and attention, you can do anything!

Specially if you are seeing it with NO leash and NO collar! The puppy is purely choosing to engage, when it could chose to leave.


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## eddie1976E

Sorry to revive an old thread. Feel free to move/delete my post! 

This is a great video, thanks for posting. We are getting a puppy in April and I'm starting to look into better ways of training. At what age should this begin? I will be getting the puppy at about 9wks, I would think at that time I can start the foundation work of engagement. Obviously I don't want to put too much "stress" or whateer on the dog right off the bat...but this type of work seems lilke it would be ok for any puppy starting at 8wks...thanks

Eddie


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## MaggieRoseLee

eddie1976E, you can start right away!

My current 2 favorite videos to show this are:

Introducing: Hob Nob Helo (9 Weeks Old!) on Vimeo

and


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## eddie1976E

Great videos thanks. So essentially, this type of training is playing with your dog, keeping their interest and focus on you, using either their toys and/or food as reward. Rewarding them at the right time obviously is critical to keeping them engaged. Love this. I want my dog to focus on us and nothing else while we are out....


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## David Winners

eddie1976E said:


> Great videos thanks. So essentially, this type of training is playing with your dog, keeping their interest and focus on you, using either their toys and/or food as reward. Rewarding them at the right time obviously is critical to keeping them engaged. Love this. I want my dog to focus on us and nothing else while we are out....


That's the idea! Once you have the engagement, everything else is easy.


There is about 5 minutes of footage of ME playing luring games at the end of the Power of Tug video, and it's just great! I watched the video several times but always cut it off before the play session.


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