# Shed-X Supplement?



## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I bought a bottle of Shed-X today for Zoey hoping it would help with her flaky skin. Straight fish oil makes her stink so I figured I might try this stuff since it's a mixture of different types of oils. Just wondering if anyone has ever used this before? Did it work pretty well at keeping the skin and coat in good condition?

Also, does it normally have an "off" smell to it? It smells a bit like rancid oil (Though nothing overpowering) and I'm worried I got a bad bottle but at the same time I've never used it so I can't be sure. :/ Thinking I might return it just in case for a newer bottle to see if there is any difference in smell.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've never used Shed X and i wouldn't use anything to
alter my dogs shedding. to help manage shedding i brush
my dog a lot. you said your dog has flaky skin. is
Shed X something you would use for flaky skin? what
are you feeding your dog? what do you consider as straight
fish oil? i give my dog cold pressed, extra virgin salmon oil
(human grade) and i grind flax seed and give it to him.
may sure your dog isn't allergic to something (food or
enviroment). have you checked for fleas? maybe a bath
usuing a natural or organic shampoo may help with the flaky 
skin.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Also, does it normally have an "off" smell to it? It smells a bit like rancid oil (Though nothing overpowering)


What kind of oil is in it? Some oils such as flax seed and wheat germ go rancid very quickly. If it smells rancid, I wouldn't feed it.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Human grade fish oils (with a natural d-Alpha vitamin E supplement to process it through the body) is what I'm speaking of. I've tried different sources such as salmon, menhaden fish, tuna, krill (Guess not exactly a "fish"), ect...All the same results. So I figured I might try something from another source such as flaxseed. She never had a problem with them until about a year ago and then she started getting "sweaty" on her stomach and underarms, she stunk all over and she was getting chunks of flakes around her body. When I removed the fish oil, the symptoms started to clear up but not completely. (Yes, she's had blood work including a full thyroid panel done (She is hypothyroid but it's managed on medication) and nothing came up wrong) I'm not looking to alter shedding since she doesn't shed really anyways, just looking for a good oil supplement to help with her skin.

She eats Artisan Pork (Similar to The Honest Kitchen, it's freeze dried food that you rehydrate with water) and gets 1 teaspoon of Diatomaceous Earth + 1/2 tab of GNC Mega Ultra Skin & Coat Essentials for senior dogs. I supplement raw meals a couple times a week consisting of pork, green tripe, beef, turkey and deer. (Not all at once, just one protein at each meal, most of the bones come from pork, beef and turkey) So she gets a nice variety. I've dropped all chicken from her diet even though I can't say any of her issues have ever been caused by it since she still has some skin problems going on. (ie. the flaking) Treats are 1-2 pieces of store bought dehydrated beef liver per day or I'll pick out some of the smaller pork chunks from the Artisan to treat her with, but that's all she gets for treats.

It's hard to keep spending and spending on blood work when nothing is coming up and the vet just keeps telling me "she's just old". No fleas and I have used a natural, oatmeal and baking soda shampoo in the past (What I've always used for grooming dogs with sensitive skin) but am planning to try some plain oatmeal baths to see if it makes any difference. I'm just pretty much at the end of my rope with this skin problem. I brush her out a couple times a week and it's just chunks of flakes. Many lead to open sores that I have to keep cleaned. I can't grow her hair out anymore because it seems the longer it gets the more problems I have so she stays shaved down.

It's flaxseed, wheat germ and fish oil. So maybe it did go rancid, this isn't an overly popular shop in the last few years since Petsmart was built so they don't go through their products as quickly so it wouldn't be too surprising. I think I'll just take it back and see what I can find.

If anyone has any other suggestions for a good skin and coat supplement you're welcome to throw out ideas.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I hear coconut oil is a good supplement for skin and coat, though I haven't used it myself.

Is the skin itchy, or just flaky? I assume you've done skin scrapings and all that, to rule out mange mites, bacterial or yeast infection.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

We've done skin scrapings in the past and found nothing. I haven't done one recently though. Guess it couldn't hurt to try!

I've heard good things about coconut oil too, might see if I can find some to try. I'd kind of forgotten about it!

She gets a little itchy but it's not excessive scratching or anything. Just pretty flaky skin. (Which some of the larger flakes tend to pull out hair and cause sores) I had thought maybe Cushings Disease since for a while she was showing several signs such as darkening skin, slow healing wounds, slow growing hair, bony head, hair loss, pot belly, ect which was when I took her in right away to get checked out and was told "she's just old". I went in about 5 or 6 months later for another check and was again told "she's just old". Since then, MAJOR diet changes have made some differences in her skin but this flaking hasn't stopped and it's about to drive me crazy because you can't pet her without feeling crap on your hands. Just feels dirty, even after a bath! Not to mention I know the sores aren't too fun to deal with. :/

Other than that, she's a happy and healthy dog. She runs around and gets onto Gretchen, she's got perfect poops, clean/clear eyes, her drinking seems ok and there have been a few days she's went off food for a meal which kind of scared me but next meal she'd pick up so I don't know what to really think about that since she's always been a chow hound.

Just a hard situation to deal with for me I guess.  I feel like I've got very little support on the vet side of things and at home I feel like I'm losing the battle. My gut tells me that something is seriously wrong but every time I take her in she's fine besides some "old lady problems" as the vet puts it. I know I'm a hypochondriac with my own health so it's not surprising the vet finds me over dramatic about my dog but to have been my friend for the last 14 years is some pretty serious attachment. She's only been with me since she was 5 WEEKS old! Kind of hard not to have that bond and worry when she starts aging.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

If she is 14 years old, your vet is probably right. Sounds like you've ruled out known diseases or disorders, so it's probably just old-dog stuff... frustrating, I know, especially when you can't do anything about it. But try the coconut oil, see if it helps... and if you want to use flax oil, make sure you buy it in the refrigerated section of your health food store, in an opaque bottle, and that it is dated, and guaranteed to be fresh. Flax oil is unstable and goes rancid very quickly. 

You could also try buying whole flax seeds and grinding them at home.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Thanks! It is frustrating, I honestly half way wish they WOULD find something so I wouldn't feel so crazy. I feel like an answer would ease a LOT of stress! (So long as it wasn't anything deadly of course!!) I'll get some of the coconut oil to try first and see if it helps. I've read a few people say it helps deodorize the dog which would be really nice. Even though Zoey isn't "sweaty" like she was and the smell has reduced, it hasn't disappeared for good. This is a dog who NEVER smelled until recently!

Going to brush her out well and give her a good scrub down + soaking her in an oatmeal bath. Hopefully it'll help get some of the flakes off and soothe her skin.  I just hate bathing her more than I should have to because she stresses so badly in the tub.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

recent research is discovering that d-alpha tocopherol may be as good as useless. If you want vitamin E , get real , whole, complex natural 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols.
Rancid oil is very pro inflammatory . 

Even so fish oil should not create a bad body smell.

I am wondering whether she has a fungal problem . Early stage because of good management of symptom (but not erradication of cause) malassezia . Does she smell musty. 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

why the ditomaceous earth if she dors'nt have fleas it really can dry skin out


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

refrigeration.



Freestep said:


> What kind of oil is in it? Some oils such as flax seed and wheat germ go rancid very quickly. If it smells rancid, I wouldn't feed it.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

refrigeration has nothing to do with denaturing or going rancid . The problem is oxidization , contact with air/oxygen changing the chemical bonds from an omega 3 into a pro inflammatory omega 6.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

carmspack said:


> recent research is discovering that d-alpha tocopherol may be as good as useless. If you want vitamin E , get real , whole, complex natural 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols.
> Rancid oil is very pro inflammatory .
> 
> Even so fish oil should not create a bad body smell.
> ...


Yeah she does, even after giving her a bath earlier she smells. I looked up some pictures/info of malassezia and it does seem like a possibility! I'm guessing have a skin scraping done again? Any ideas on supplements or foods to help?



Midnight12 said:


> why the ditomaceous earth if she dors'nt have fleas it really can dry skin out


That is only if you put it on the skin, I feed it to her. We live in the woods with plenty of wildlife coming through, I don't want to risk my dogs picking up any parasites.

If I could find my iPod charger I'd get some pictures of her problem areas. I'm sure SEEING what I'm seeing would help. I have a picture of her flaking from yesterday but it's not a very good picture. :/ Dunno if it would be of any use. But when I find the charger I'll try to get some of the pictures of her darkened areas and where she is having a bit of thinned hair.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> That is only if you put it on the skin, I feed it to her. We live in the woods with plenty of wildlife coming through, I don't want to risk my dogs picking up any parasites.


You know DE doesn't kill intestinal parasites, right?


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Freestep said:


> You know DE doesn't kill intestinal parasites, right?


Everything I've read has said it does?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

ChancetheGSD said:


> Everything I've read has said it does?


It will kill fleas and other external parasites, but does nothing inside the gut. The DE has to be totally dry in order to work. When it's wet, it doesn't stick to anything--plus, a lot of worms are naturally resistant to it because they don't have exoskeletons.


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## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

Maybe others who know more will chime in but I would not give my dog a teaspoon a day seems like alot if it does not help. What does vet say about it? i do know in the last 2 years of my girls life she always smelled, even after a bath but no dry skin, stinky dog shampoo seemed to help but I thought some of it was old age.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

DE does kill intestinal worms. It is a mechanical action , by slicing and dicing . The dead worms are then digested and absorbed as protein. 
One traditional alternative wormer is diatomaceous earth - must be food grade -- and ground up pumpkin seeds which have a natural deworming agent which paralyzes and kills the worm. 
Pumpkin seed , finely ground , raw (not roasted) green pepitas are even used for chickens by organic farmers.
Diatomaceous earth is used by those rearing horses naturally. 

Easy to find out it it works by having the stool tested. 
Can't harm .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

dark , dampish, musty points to a fungal problem.

essential fatty acids, high lauric acid content virgin coconut oil, chlorophyll high greens which are naturally anti fungal such as split cell chlorella -- olive leaf powder, USNEA inside and outside, general health boost.

bathe with Selsun Blue Fortified or Head and Shoulders - dandruff is a fungal problem, or get Mane 'N Tail PROTECT which covers fungus ,bacteria, etc.

Probiotics to establish correct gut flora , displace


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

*shrugs* A lot of sources have said it works and I don't have parasite problems in my two dogs, whereas Maggie who doesn't get DE is always infested with them. Guess until I've got a problem I'll keep on. Hasn't done any harm!

On another note, I was going through my photobucket and found some old pictures of Zoey from when I took her into the vet because of her skin problems. I also found my charger so you guys can see the pictures and compare and tell me what ya think.

This was back when she was still on kibble/canned food. They're maybe 6 months old?

Hind end, notice the thickened skin as well as the darkening on her back and tail. You can't really see it well but she has some crusty spots on her too.









Again, not a very good image but notice the black spots on her legs and stomach. She had sores ALL over her stomach and legs.









Sore spots on her leg









Inflamed skin with small sores on one arm









Long black scabbed area with small sores and inflamed skin on the other leg









Chest area. Some small red spots as well as a large sore across her chest. You can see some blackened areas under her arms.









The following are from TODAY after being on Artisan Pork + Raw for 2 months.

Her stomach/legs. As you can see her skin pigment is a bit lighter (but still dark) and pretty much all the black spots and sores are gone. There is still some hairloss/thinned hair on the inside of her leg though. Her belly skin used to be thicker too and would give a "dehydrated" look to it and crease.









And a crusty area on her back.









A darkened spot on her neck/under her chin. (I'm not suffocating her I promise lol) I keep collars off (And I walk her on a harness) so it's not from rubbing anything.









You can see her legs aren't red/sore anymore but there is some dark pigment to them. (Not quite as dark as the picture makes it out to be though but still darker than some of her skin)









One ear









The other ear









Neither ear has any crusting or drainage but when everything else started to darken up on her, so did her ear pigment. No pictures but when the other pictures were taken from 6 months ago, she did have some inflammation but the vet never did take a swab of it, just looked in and said it was fine. :/

No pictures of her backside because her hair is grown out so you can't really see anyways but the tail area is still thickened but her back and tail aren't nearly as red/darkened and she does have a couple sores but not as many as she DID have. They're mostly from having the flakes pulled off.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

carmspack said:


> dark , dampish, musty points to a fungal problem.
> 
> essential fatty acids, high lauric acid content virgin coconut oil, chlorophyll high greens which are naturally anti fungal such as split cell chlorella -- olive leaf powder, USNEA inside and outside, general health boost.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!! What kind of probiotics would you suggest? I'll try getting ahold of the other products too...Though I have no idea what USNEA is?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when i refrigerate salmon oil, olive oil, flax seed oil it last
for months. when i don't refrigerate it it goes bad (rancid).



carmspack said:


> refrigeration has nothing to do with denaturing or going rancid . The problem is oxidization , contact with air/oxygen changing the chemical bonds from an omega 3 into a pro inflammatory omega 6.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i wonder if being shaved is causing the skin problems?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

pictures can reveal so much. This is so much more than a dog that smells a little bit . That skin, not the worst that I have seen , was pretty bad .


for the outside HEALIN' HOLLERS Anti-Fungal Salve with Usnea, Oregano, Calendula, Goldenseal, Myrrh, and Tea Tree Oil

Usnea | ALTERNATIVE Health & Herbs REMEDIES

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/165783-mrsa-4.html 

Malassezia Dermatitis (Canine) | Petside

MSM , an organic sulfur should be added to the diet.
Essential fatty acids are a must , skin disorders often indicating a chronic difficiency . 
Probiotics and digestive enzymes.


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions!! My vet told me all this was just "aging", and she last saw her when the first set of pictures were taken. Those were when her skin was REALLY nasty and she itched non-stop. But yet I was told it was "normal". I didn't think I was that stupid/crazy, especially when things have gotten a LITTLE bit better with some changes but she still has problems obviously.

So should I just get the Healin' Hollers stuff to rub on her body (I'm guessing it won't hurt her to ingest if she licks herself? Or should I invest in an e-collar too?) and the other one in the dropper jar to add to her food? How many drops? How much MSM? She's roughly 13lb. Any brand suggestions on probiotics and enzymes?

I really do appreciate everything! Nice to have an idea of what to do to try and get this under control. :/


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i wonder if being shaved is causing the skin problems?


If being "shaved" caused those kinds of skin problems, I'd be out of business. 

Dogs can sometimes have a reaction ("clipper burn") from being shaved too close, but that is localized, temporary, and does not cause a systemic skin problem.

Often times, clipping the hair close reveals an existing skin problem, and getting air/medication to the area helps it heal.


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