# e fence



## punkin43822 (Jan 31, 2008)

has any one purchased or used the e fence made by innotek? Not sure which to go with.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

We had an invisible fence rep come over tonight and quoted us $1200 for two dogs, front yard onlyaverage sized yard. Do you have a price quote for innotek and is it comparable? I was surprised at the expense, but it is the collar that is costly.


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## punkin43822 (Jan 31, 2008)

I was looking at the ones you purchase as a kit at wal-mart and put in yourself. The name brand of the fence is innotek.


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## tibvixie101 (Nov 26, 2007)

we have a e fence by Invisable Fence Co. (my BF used to work there for years). Contrary to many's beliefs on the board, none of my GSD's have ever tested the fence. They will run right up to the line and bark (garbage man, mail man etc) but never EVER cross the line. It took them each one time to be shocked during training and that was it. They get the beep beep noise as a warning and as soon as they hear it they drop back with tail between their legs, knowing any further steps would be shocking. (lol) The only dog to test our fence over and over again was the ACD mix. 

GSD's are very loyal and protective and arent usually run-away dogs. I know 100% that even if the fence is off, which it is from time to time, that i dont have to worry about her running away. Mya doesnt even wear her e-collar anymore she knows where the line is and wont cross it.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

Tibvixie we have Invisible Fence as well. We only had to show Shane once, where NOT to go and he got the point. He won't cross the line either. Sometimes we let him out without the collar, and he still won't cross the line. The only time he knows he is allowed is when we put on his pincher collar and leash or when he jumps in the back of the car. 

However, I do get a kick out of it, when I see people walking by my yard and Shane wants to go greet them so he starts charging full speed ahead down the driveway. Of course, the people don't know we have an invisible fence, so they see basically a big scary dog coming at them







, so they will jump like 10 feet in the air and run across the street.







But Shane will always come to an abrupt stop right before the line! it is quiet a show to watch


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I personally don't care for efence. Dogs can, and many will, blow through the efence. Even dogs that were properly trained and showed total respect of the fence for years may some day blow through. Knowing dogs who have died because their owners believed the efence to contain them, and it didn't, I would never trust it. It's a great safety net for when you're out with the dog, but I would never leave a dog outside unsupervised with only an efence. And of course they don't keep other people and animals out as well as a real fence does.

If you do decide to get an efence, you should go with one of the companies like Invisible Fence. It is a much higher quality product than the cheap boxed versions purchased at pet stores and Walmarts, it will be installed properly, and you will get hands on training about how to use it and train your dog to it properly. And if anything goes wrong, either in the system or the training, they will help.

Efence is dangerous enough without adding additional risk of using a substandard product.


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## Sheppy (Nov 13, 2004)

> Quote:it is quiet a show to watch


And that show may well get Animal Control called and a "vicious dog" label hung on your dog. Life usually gets real complicated after that.

Time to put some obedience on your dog.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Sheppy
> 
> 
> > Quote:it is quiet a show to watch
> ...


Don't begin to presume you know me or my dog. MY DOG IS WELL TRAINED. And apparently you don't understand the term "vicious dog". He must bear his teeth and growl in a vicious manner. Running down the driveway, tail-wagging and tongue hanging out is not considered vicious. In fact, it is very much considered a dog acting like a dog! Get your facts straight if you want to put in your two cents. Otherwise, maybe you shouldn't be speaking on matters you don't know much about. I don't hear animal control knocking at my door. Your post was ill mannered and unwarranted.


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## RobinB (Feb 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Liljah
> 
> However, I do get a kick out of it, when I see people walking by my yard and Shane wants to go greet them so he starts charging full speed ahead down the driveway. Of course, the people don't know we have an invisible fence, so they see basically a big scary dog coming at them
> 
> ...


That is just awful! Why do you think it is fun to scare people? People should be free to walk down the street with out worrying that a unleashed and apparently unfenced dog will attack them. 

I am sure that Shane is a wonderful dog and would never hurt a flea but you shouldn't allow him to scare people either.


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## Sheppy (Nov 13, 2004)

It really doesn't matter that you think your dog is well-trained or friendly.

What matters is what the people who _"jump like 10 feet in the air and run across the street"_ think. If Animal Control gets enough calls, they will do what it takes to correct the problem. 

FWIW, there have been dogs put down in this area for just that behavior.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: RobinB
> 
> That is just awful! Why do you think it is fun to scare people? People should be free to walk down the street with out worrying that a unleashed and apparently unfenced dog will attack them.
> 
> I am sure that Shane is a wonderful dog and would never hurt a flea but you shouldn't allow him to scare people either.


I agree. 

Most people can't read canine body language for diddly, and therefore can't tell the difference between a happy GSD running to greet them and a vicious one that's going to eat them. And it certainly doesn't help the reputation of the breed for GSDs to run around scaring people, even if that isn't the dog's intent.

And people can complain to animal control for just feeling threatened. Sad, but true.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SheppyIt really doesn't matter that you think your dog is well-trained or friendly.
> 
> What matters is what the people who _"jump like 10 feet in the air and run across the street"_ think. If Animal Control gets enough calls, they will do what it takes to correct the problem.
> 
> FWIW, there have been dogs put down in this area for just that behavior.


Well then they don't know the law or your plain lying because a dog can't be put down for just behavior. A dog must attack and act out of character or in some places there is even a one bit rule, otherwise, just because a dog is running is not enough. If wish to continue to fight me on this, then please go to your local law library and find the law on the matter. OR better yet, call your town hall, they will clarify it for you. Otherwise, don't tell me what the law is...I studied the law. 

And I don't THINK my dog is well trained...he is. Instead of being mean spirited and ill mannered why can't you find the humor in the situation. These are not strangers walking by but people I know. And they are not jumping because of fear but more of shock. I guess them laughing as they walk away, is not a good indication it was funny. 

That this incident doesn't mean I make the GSD have a bad rep. But the bad rep stems from bad breeders. If in fact my dog is so vicious, I guess the neighborhood kids shouldn't be playing in my yard with my dog. I should tell them all to stay away. You take a statement and make it serious. If a toy a poodle was running down the drive way "aww how cute." But because it is a friendly GS it's "oh my god, he is not trained?" Tell me where is the logic and the fairness in that? Because what everyone is basically saying, if a GS does anything that a normal dog would do, it is a bad's rep. A dog will behave how you train them to behave. A toy poodle can also be a vicious animal if he was trained in that manner. Instead of harping on the bad qualities of a GS, try finding the good ones. I'm tired hearing the negativity. He was running towards the people because HE WANTED TO GREET THEM. Gee, what a mean dog.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Most people cant tell the difference between a nice dog and a mean one, and I've known people to get bitten by dogs wagging their tails...its not always the best indicator. I cant blame someone for being frightened, its a real shame.


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## RobinB (Feb 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Liljah
> 
> 
> And I don't THINK my dog is well trained...he is. Instead of being mean spirited and ill mannered why can't you find the humor in the situation. These are not strangers walking by but people I know. And they are not jumping because of fear but more of shock. I guess them laughing as they walk away, is not a good indication it was funny.


You are totally telling the story different this time. Go back and read your first post. It certainly didn't sound like people who know you or your dog. You appeared to be taking pleasure in the fact that you dog scared people who walked pass your yard. 

We are telling you that it is not funny. Even if some people end up laughing in the end. People can truly be scared by an unfamiliar dog running up to them. You should not allow your dog to do this. 

I believe you when you say your dog is well trained and friendly. People walking by your house will not know this however.

Are you incapable of admitting you might be doing something wrong?


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

Maybe you should go back and read. I didn't realize I had to write you a book for you to fully understand. Instead of attacking me and making me look bad, why don't you find out the facts first? I am very capable of admitting when I am wrong. Can you?

My story didn't change, its the fact you finally get it.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

I won`t get into the e-fence debate because it will be a debate with people that have never owned one, bought a cheap one, didn`t train or just people that heard it from Joe who heard it from Jim. Mostly just BS.
There are only 2 brands I recommend( I have more years e-fence experience than many people here have years out of grade school) I have had all levels of GSD`s on them with out any problems.
You have to train, you have to do refresher training and you have to maintain the collar. I don`t leave my dogs out unattended for long periods and I don`t leave home with them out.
Invisible fence and Dog Guard are the only 2 I have had and they are quality. I have Dog Guard the last dozen or more years. I only switched because I wanted to do more property. I can adjust the width and height of the correction zone. Think of the zone like a McDonalds arch and also the level of correction. My young male has what I would rate as a 9 out of 10 prey drive and he will chase a deer at full speed for 150` and then skid to a stop just before the correction zone making muddy skid marks in the grass.
Where you lay the wire for where your dog can go as far as being courteous to neighbors and pedestrians is important.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Sheppy
> 
> What matters is what the people who "jump like 10 feet in the air and run across the street" think. If Animal Control gets enough calls, they will do what it takes to correct the problem.
> 
> FWIW, there have been dogs put down in this area for just that behavior.


Show me one instance where a dog that has not bitten somebody and has stayed on their own property was put down. Another case of pass the gossip bandwagon. Even PM me that animal control phone number so I can call.


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## RobinB (Feb 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: LiljahMaybe you should go back and read. I didn't realize I had to write you a book for you to fully understand. Instead of attacking me and making me look bad, why don't you find out the facts first? I am very capable of admitting when I am wrong. Can you?
> 
> My story didn't change, its the fact you finally get it.


I understood your story perfectly. And I think you are behaving horribly to your neighbors by allowing your dog to scare the neighbors when the see


> Originally Posted By: Liljahbasically a big scary dog coming at them , so they will jump like 10 feet in the air and run across the street".


If you want to now pretend like everyone who walks past your house is your good friend who knows your dog and thinks it is a big laugh be my guest.

You don't need me to make you look bad, you are doing a fine job of it by yourself.


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## Sheppy (Nov 13, 2004)

> Quote: ... show me ...


My assumption is that they were put down. They are no longer around and displaying that behavior. The owners (two different locations) did not move and the dogs were not that old (i.e. they didn't die of old age).

Don't know if A/C instigated it or not. One dog was a Dobbie mix the other a Shepherd mix. They would both charge the sidewalk barking, snapping and snarling at people who were walking down the sidewalk -- elders, mothers with small children, men, women and kids. 

Perhaps they eventually did go out in the sidewalk and bite someone. As others have noted, most folks don't really train their dogs on the fence all that well. Some dogs learn that a fast run at the boundary will result in one shock and then they are free. 

I doubt that _"we have an Invisible Fence"_ is much of a defense in a dog bite lawsuit. In which case, the insurance company makes the payout on your behalf and then either cancels your insurance or makes keeping your homeowner's insurance contingent on getting rid of the dog. Getting insured when your dog has a bite history can be a real challenge. Rehoming a dog with a bite history is also a challenge. 

Maybe someone got really tired of having their wife and kids threatened and took the dog for a ride one night. 

In any case, the dogs are no longer around and charging people walking down the sidewalk.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Please get back on topic (general reminder to everyone). This is a discussion about e-fences.

Thank you,

Admin

********


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## Sheppy (Nov 13, 2004)

Getting back on topic, if you decide to get an electronic fence, I've heard the best reports about the Invisible Fence brand. 

However, the fence is only about as effective as your last set of batteries. 

Before installing the fence, check with your local jurisdiction on laws and zoning regulations regarding the use of a electronic fence to contain a dog. 

This is also a useful reference
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/fence.htm

Some local ordinances requre the dog be able to approach no closer than ten or fifteen feet to the property boundary or to the sidewalk. Others prohibit their use in the front yard.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

What I will say about the e-fence:

It may look good in theory. Your dog may even learn it within the first couple of times of hitting the perimeter. You'll see him stay away from it and you'll think that he's perfectly trained and he'll never cross it. You may even "forget" to put the shock collar on and watch him never test the boundary.

You are setting your dog up for tremendous failure that could end in his death. 

Many dogs are very well trained. They can be obedience competitors or even seasoned police K9s. These dogs obey every command in just about every imaginable situation. But one day, the dog spots something novel, something he's never seen before. Or maybe, on that particular day it just seems oh so tempting. Maybe a deer or maybe a car that makes a very funny noise, or even a cat with a peculiar tail. In any case, your very well trained dog regresses into what he truly is- JUST AN ANIMAL- and off he goes. If he happens to wear the collar, he gets a quick shock but he's at the perimeter and 10' away from the perimeter before he notices, but the shock's over and there's his quarry so off he goes. He neglects to notice the truck heading right for him in the road. A thud, a yelp, and it's all over. The well trained dog, the dog who was trusted for years and years, who came when called a football field away or who never tested the boundary since Day One of the e-fence. Trust has killed the dog.

Be always aware of this with the e-fence. It has happened before to very well trained and trustworthy dogs and it will happen again. If you scoff at this, I hope for the sake of the dog that no one who shuns this advice has to learn the hard way.

Another note on the e-fence. It does NOTHING to protect your dog from other animals or other people. If your dog jumps at a kid (playfully) and the kid falls over and hurts himself, guess who's getting sued?! If the deliveryman sees a GSD running around a yard without a fence, you think he's going to risk his arse? How many times are people told "oh don't worry, he's nice, he doesn't bite," and are left holding a bloody appendage? As for other animals, your very well trained dog will have nowhere to hide against a feral pack of dogs or wild coyotes. Your dog will run in his own prison while he's tormented and shredded. Also on kids, some kids LOVE to torture animals. Your dog has nowhere to go when a kid can chase it with a bat. And when the dog finally has enough and puts the kid in its place? Now you have a dog that is aggressive to and fearful of kids and Little Tommy's parents are preparing to sue. An e-fence is never a substitute for a REAL fence. 

I think it's just too risky. Even if you train a dog exactly how the manufacturers dictate, keep up on the batteries constantly, always keep the collar on, and always supervise, something could happen. Weigh the pros and cons before going this route. And please, do NOT EVER let your dog rush people like one of the previous poster's dogs. This makes the breed look very bad. And no, not everyone can tell a happy dog from an aggressive one. I witnessed this adorable black lab rush up to somebody in full, submissive smile and complete butt-wiggle and the silly lady was screaming and cringing as though rabid Cane Corsos were surrounding her. Never assume.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The invisible fence rep that was at my house last night said they track your battery usage, sending out new ones when the old are going weak. He also said that it tracks how many times your dog tests the boundary. We are only going to use this as a security blanket for the front yard, back is completely privacy fenced. 
<span style="color: #CC0000">*TO: Liljah, I was walking my two GSDs last night and a house w/e-fence has a 60 lb mutt. He was inside barking and the owner let him out to charge us. It was icy and thank God I had my dogs on a prong collar, because Onyx wanted a piece of that dog. She didn't know the dog would stop. I thought it was really RUDE of the owner to do that, she just stood in the window and watched the show-what if I had fallen on my butt on the ice and onyx connected w/that dog(((*</span>


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girl Liljah, I was walking my two GSDs last night and a house w/e-fence has a 60 lb mutt. He was inside barking and the owner let him out to charge us. It was icy and thank God I had my dogs on a prong collar, because Onyx wanted a piece of that dog. She didn't know the dog would stop. I thought it was really RUDE of the owner to do that, she just stood in the window and watched the show-what if I had fallen on my butt on the ice and onyx connected w/that dog((([/i][/b][/color]


I'm sorry to hear that Onyx', the owner is someone who is vicious themselves







. However, I am not sure why this comment is directed towards me only, unless you are trying to compare. If so, please let me clarify, I would never intentionally send Shane after someone just to scare them. Nor would I just watch has Shane was barking at people, this is not behavior instilled my dog, nor would I want it to be. When Shane ran down the driveway, he wasn't barking or growling or trying to scare off people. If anything, I swear he was trying to invite them in the yard to play.









I am sorry the owner did that to do, I wonder if he was trying that "I have a bigger badder dog than you." Had that dog broken the fence he would have felt a very unpleasant shock and the owner would have been in trouble legally.









But this thread needs to go back on topic, I want to apologize to Punkin for going off topic. As to the E fence in my honest opinion, I think it is better than fencing in your dog or tying him up on the front lawn. The fence makes the dog feel like he has more freedom. It is beneficial but you have to be willing to put the time in to train your dog where he can and can't go. This only my opinion on the topic.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm sorry, wrong fence...I use the Indivisible Fence, not E-Fence. I am not sure about E-Fence, but I like indivisible fence.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: LiljahI'm sorry, wrong fence...I use the Indivisible Fence, not E-Fence. I am not sure about E-Fence, but I like indivisible fence.


I know I used "e-fence" as a generic catch-all term for all underground/invisible fencing.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

DianaM , and you have used an e-fence? I guess GSD`s can`t be trained reliably with an E-collar or trained to be off lead.
Oh that`s right they can be what was I thinking. Perhaps you should come tell the half dozen dogs that have been reliable on my fence. My fence has been at least as reliable if not more so than an actual fence.
You must have some genetic mutant of a dog if you can`t reliable train them.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> QuoteianaM , and you have used an e-fence?


That's okay, I don't need the risk. A dog's still an animal and animals will always surprise us. Maybe not the dogs you have, maybe you've been lucky, but it happens.



> Quote:You must have some genetic mutant of a dog if you can`t reliable train them.


YOU must have one of those that you consider them to be 100% reliable no matter what! Heck, I don't know a HUMAN that's 100% reliable. Can I buy one of your 100% reliable superdogs? Yeah, that was more snide than it needed to be, but seriously- things can happen so fast, even the best trained dog in the world can have an oops. There is no such thing as a perfect animal OR perfect human. In these days of urban-everything and cars going a bazillion miles and hour, all it takes it once. This is not an acceptable risk, even to just try it out. I'd much rather have an e-collar that I can control the stimulation with and a good fence to protect my dog from the world.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think it is still on topic,as to what the pro's and con's are of the electronic fencing systems. Just examples of those using them and how they "work"....


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Oh I don't question that they work, they very obviously DO work since dogs stay within the fence. My argument is that the dog is not guaranteed to stay within the fence near as much as a decent physical fence would. It's just too risky. It'll work long enough for the owner to get complacent and trusting, maybe after several different dogs successfully kept behind an e-fence, and then one day it changes.


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## tibvixie101 (Nov 26, 2007)

just another note i thought i'd add to this. For those of you who are familiar with agility or schulthund, or even have common knowledge of the breed will know that these dogs can jump a regular fence if they wanted to. Our neighbors on the next road behind us have an 8ft wooden fence their GSD has jumped twice to get at whatever he was interested in on the other side.

We use the Invisible Fence brand, my boyfriend worked their for almost 8 years and we do some re-training every spring. I put up new flags for a month and we walk the perimeter doing a reminder session. Mya has been on the fence for 3 years now and has never once tested the fence. She was shocked in training and immediately ran to my side and layed down. I know my dog and i know she would NEVER cross that line. I've had every kind of distraction at the end of my driveway (garbae trucks, other people walking dogs, deer in the woods, to plastic bags floating by) she'll go to the fence line and bark, but when she does, i call her back. I am always outside when my dogs are. I also wanted to add that our line is about 25ft from the road so they cant get close to anyone walking by. Then again we also live in a suburban area on a back road, that not many people travel on. On a good day, maybe 20 cars pass through our road. 

I really think it depends on the person and their dog. People are going to use whatever method they think is best, their is no reason to be mean, or say its wrong to use an e-fence or wooden or otherwise. Some people dont want to fence up their yard with a tacky fence, so they use an e-fence.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

DianaM, So what you post is based on rumor and speculation and has little actual fact. So a well trained dog on an e-collar walking down the street can`t be trusted?? I`ve seen many a lead or regular collar break. Does your dog wear a back up collar? You never saw a dog loose that escaped a regular fence or kennel?
In almost every case the people that make the most noise are the people that have no knowledge or experience with the fence.

Of course that same thing applies to guns, the most anti gun people are the ones that never owned one or had experience with one.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:So a well trained dog on an e-collar walking down the street can`t be trusted??


I said I prefer e-collar. Why? Because WE can adapt it to the situation. The e-fence is dumb. It does not know to stop stimulation in case your dog breached the border and now wants back in. There is only one level of stim. Once the border IS breached, the stimulation stops and there is nothing to convince the dog further that he is doing something very bad. We can do all this with the e-collar. I've also seen leads and collars break. I have my dog here because he did break off one. I regularly check the equipment I use, make sure everything is intact, ensure the collars are fitted properly, etc. One thing I have been bad about is indeed a backup collar, that's something I need to purchase next. But this I realize and understand that those can fail. 

Yup, dogs escape fences all the time. There's a problem with your argument there, though. Many times, the dogs are ALONE when it happens or are regularly left alone in the fence to dig, learn how to climb, etc. I've seen dogs climb trees to hop over fences. Many people also don't properly maintain their fences. Or they think a 4' fence is adequate. Or they don't realize they DO have a climber and they DO need to run electrified wire up and down the fence wall to zap the dog as it tries to climb (like livestock fencing). A physical fence does not mean license to toss the dog out back and forget about it for a couple hours, but lots of frequent-runaway owners never got that memo.

Actual fact is that a dog who doesn't care to chase much of anything will probably happily acclimate to an e-fence and never touch it. A dog with drives so high that it could blow through the fence and not feel it for a second is not going to be stopped by an e-fence. He may not test it for years, but something could come along to change that. Knowing just that behavior (and also knowing that no animal is EVER 100%), it's too much of a risk for me. The risk precludes me from trying it out on an animal I own. I've read enough from people on here who either sold pups in e-fence homes who blew through and died or knew of pets that did to not try it. It may happen rarely, but it's enough for me. 

I can see an e-fence working fine IF the owner is always out there with the dog- if the owner sees the dog fixate on something, the owner can redirect the dog before it escalates into a potential breach.


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## Liljah (Jan 20, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: tibvixie101
> 
> I really think it depends on the person and their dog. People are going to use whatever method they think is best, their is no reason to be mean, or say its wrong to use an e-fence or wooden or otherwise. Some people dont want to fence up their yard with a tacky fence, so they use an e-fence.


I agree Tibvixie...it really depends on the dog's personality and how much time you put in with the training. Like your dogT ib, Shane will automatically run back to my side once he hears the beeping...he knows he went too far. The guy who installed our Indivisible fence was actually a retired k-9 unit police officer and he swears by it. He has 3 GS and his dogs never broke the fence. Of course, being an ex cop those dogs are well trained. It is all based on an individualized preference.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

I don`t have the energy to go line by line. 
E-fence+adjustable correction + correction zone.
Regular retaining.
Unlike e-collar the fence times the warning then correction PERFECTLY. E-collar relies on human attentiveness and reaction.

Bottom line...if I have to explain, you wouldn`t understand.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: DianaM
> I said I prefer e-collar. Why? Because WE can adapt it to the situation. The e-fence is dumb. It does not know to stop stimulation in case your dog breached the border and now wants back in.


e-collar is for training and e-fence is for containment. Both take knowledgeable training.

I've used the Invisible fence brand for years.

The dog is trained at first with not stim - dog on lead walking the peremeter and when is close enough to hear the warning, trainer says 'no' and pulls dog <u>back into the yard</u>. 'Good Dog!'

This should be repeated until dog shys away from tone.

Dog can then be led around with longer lead - never making them approach to stim field. Eventually they will breach it with trainer right there to pull dog back in the yard.

Presto - dog avoids stim and when they venture too close they know which way to go to avoid it.

I've had dog aggressive GSDs run along the fence, never breaching it, when neighbors walk their dogs right by.

Not fail safe - but great system. I never leave my dogs out when I'm not home anyway.

Certain breeds like the Basset Hound seem hard to train to e-fence, but they not only breach it but wander right back in... go figure?

GDSs are smart. I don't believe I've ever had one test it and receive a stim more than one or two times - when it was new. And they had 2 acres to run.


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## Cooper&me (Dec 18, 2007)

We have both a physical fence and the invisible brand fence. We have 20 acers and I do not want to loose my dog through a whole in the fence. That said we never leave the dogs home alone outside.
The brussels is not on the fence. I know cats are on the fence but the collar box is bigger than her neck. When my GSD is older we will train him to the fence. We can have different settings for different dogs. I also try not to forget the e collar. The boxer knows the boundries but IMO that is a lazy risk that too many take.
You have invested all that time to train and money to install only to loose your dog because you didn't put the collar on. Kind of preaching to myself. I have been bad at remembering the colar.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

We are debating getting the invisible fence for the front(back yard is fenced). I am concerned about the collars, as I don't have my dogs wear them except when they are attached to a leash. Does anyone have opinions on this? I am afraid my dogs will get hooked up with each other while playing. Of course, they would be supervised while out, but it only takes a second for things to happen.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

My current 3 wrestle and play really hard and have never gotten hooked. They don`t wear them in the house.


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