# 8 month old puppy with no desire to interact with me.



## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

This is going to be long and very poorly written, I imagine, so I apologize in advance. 

Simi turns 8 months tomorrow and in the past month or so I've noticed a huge difference in her desire to work with me, or even interact at all with me. When I picked her at a young age she was very "into" me and the breeder described her as a "people pleaser" and that never faltered in her early weeks and months. However, I'm seeing a difference in that. In the last little while at obedience I've been struggling with desire to work, attention span, drive, enthusiasm. I put it all up to her stressing because it's an indoor environment with an echo and can be a little loud and hectic. At agility fun matches she was very on and would do drives to tugs, sit stays, restrained recalls, and even obedience tasks. But as soon as we got to obedience she would cower in the car and try to get away from the building. 

All the while, she would pull me to things that belong to me, my coat, my bag, my car, etc.. She had no interest in staying WITH me, but would turn herself inside out to get to something that was mine. 

We started agility classes 3 or 4 weeks back and I had a bit of this same issue. Rather than staring off into space like she did at obedience, however, she would stare at other dogs, and so we've done a lot of clicking and treating for making the choice to look back at me and we're having less of an issue. It's still very hard to get her interested in tugging or playing with me. She'd rather sit beside me, look at other dogs, look back. We originally had her crate in the field with us to work on crate games, but she would pull me across the field to get into her crate. 

Tonight she ran off from me in class, jumped over the fence (where it was down) and ran about 200 feet away with her tug toy. I chased her for a bit, hoping to grab her leash, but no luck. So I stopped and ran the other way, she dropped the toy and ran back to me, but even when she got to me, it wasn't really a "don't leave me!" it was more of a "oh, you're running, fun!" there wasn't any big hoorah to see me. 

When we got home from agility and after she'd napped for a while I decided to take her out to the field on her long line and have mom hold her back from me while I teased her with the tug and tried to get her amped up to see me. She would just stare off into space, there was no desire at all to come to me. A couple times I got a good bit of interest and then a pull to get to me and a good game of tug, but never with as much ooomph as I was looking for. 

Other bits of information: 
She hasn't gone into heat yet, and is 8 months old tomorrow. 
She's been on a very limited play time/hanging out in the house time schedule the last little while because a) her shoulder injury, that is now healed, b) having other dogs in the house (first a puppies, then Swiper, then Pecker). 
She gets two training classes a week, monday night Agility, Tuesday night obedience (now wednesday) besides that she gets a little extra training but not much. I know this is a problem, and I've been working on it. 
Other people in the house pay her little to no attention and she rarely asks for it from other people. She's not a cuddler and rarely comes asking for pats. She'll come over, let you snuggle for maybe a minute then she's off to harass a dog or find something to get into. But mostly she just clobbers me and then leaves. 
She has had a jolly ball in the fence that she will carry around 100% of the time outside when she's out. I've taken that away from her now. 
She's fed at night by me, and in the morning by mom. However it's a put the food in the bowl when they offer going into the crate and wait calmly. 
There are toys laying around that she will play with without human interaction. 
She's very into the other dogs. Will pull me to get to others, etc., and it's something I've been working on. 

I realize that these ^ are probably the root of my problem and that I'll need to change things a LOT, but basically I'm looking for someone to just simplify what I need to do to try and get my dog to actually LIKE me. 

It's just frustrating and I know I have it easy with Psyche (my Border Collie) and that's what makes it hard for me to deal with. Psyche thinks the world revolves around me. She won't go potty unless I tell her to. She is so devoted to me. Then I look at Simi... and yeah. She's happy to stare off into space, even when I leave her alone in a strange place. 

Please keep in mind that this is my first working bred GSD. Before owning her I owned a BYB GSD who, despite all of her downfalls, worshiped the ground I walked on. 

This is mostly a rant, but please, if you have advice, share it.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

One of the things about all dog training, is the most important thing for us to keep in mind is trying to keep the 'engagement' level of our pups high so they want to listen/learn/be with us. That can be the hardest part of 'training', not the perfect 'stay' or a 'sit' or getting over a dogwalk!

Plus our dogs go thru alot of different stages the first few years, so the pressure they may perceive from any classes may be overwhelming and they may start up with avoidance behaviors and showing a lack of focus. It's important to make sure we have that 'engagement' with toys AND treats in the house, in the yard, in public, at friends, AND at classes. 

Sometimes I know I am so focused on class and listening and learning I don't pay attention to how my pup may be feeling or acting. So I miss the shutting down and try to get them back when they are already a bit fried.

So you may want to up how much FUN you are when training. Fun with treats. Fun with toys. Worth paying attention to no matter what else is going on.... 

Great info and stuff to follow on --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

Have you read Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt? She just came out with a puppy edition that I really recommend. She is an agility person, and I think it would be especially resonant for you.

The other thing I would say is, don't take it personally. My dog is 8 months old too, and sometimes exhibits similar behavior. I chalk it up to the fact that he's growing up, going through puberty, and awakening to the world around him. I just ride it out with him, tough as it can be sometimes.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am not sure about working line dogs. But with our lines, there is a spectrum of personality types. Most of the litter will be people-pleasers and fairly easy to train, middle of the road dogs -- good pets, but there are those that will have higher drives, and others that are more independent. In my first litter I was taking them out the first time, and six puppies were checking out grass and their feet in a bunch and the other was on the other side of my yard checking out the weak point in my fence. 

So it is possible that your pup is a little more independent.

But it is also possible that you are expecting a lot from a puppy who is going into the adolescent stage or possibly coming into season, or both. Hormones are raging, and yes, you may not be the number one thing in every situation. 

Normally, this would be a time, when I would slow down with new things, and maybe back up a few steps, increase the praise for positive behaviors, reduce the possibilities for failures by staying on lead or long line for now, set her up to succeed and praise her for it. Or, take a vacation for a month or so. Sit out a session of classes. It sounds like that is in the cards anyway. 

But, I maybe WL people see it different.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

lexie took off on me the other day, and couldnt care less when i called her, i also ran away and she took off after me. (i wanted to kill her)! I take her to rally classes and she listens but isnt engaged like i would like her to be. so today i went to an empty tennis court, took off her leash (had her favorite ball) and proceeded to have a good time. I used all my commands while playing with her and had her full attention. its amazing how focused they can be when you are fun, that was the key work FUN! of course i did have a pocket of treats to sweeten the deal


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi, you've packed that post full of information and several issues which will take some going back and forth to cover them all - so my apologies if I jump around a bit trying to help find some answers.

#1 so the dog has just turned 8 months -- you said "in the past month or so I've noticed a huge difference in her desire to work with me, or even interact at all with me" so what happened? Takes two ! Seems she was "okay" for the first 7 . I think I have an idea , up until a month ago life was fairly casual , routine , needs taken care of , no pressure .

Then -- "In the last little while at obedience I've been struggling with desire to work, attention span, drive, enthusiasm" -- sure , now there are expectations and pressure and you being pleased, or annoyed, or frustrated or displeased - lots of emotions that the dog is having difficulty with . You are struggling with her desire to work . Maybe you have an agenda that is too fast , too much , she too young .
" I put it all up to her stressing because it's an indoor environment with an echo and can be a little loud and hectic.
-----soon as we got to obedience she would cower in the car and try to get away from the building. "
Is the dog environmentally sound . Hard to learn when you have concerns or you are frightened . 

You have to have a sensitivity to the dog and the dogs needs. She is hauled off to this building where she is overwhelmed . You have expectations of her , which she cannot provide -- she is having a melt down , going into avoidance. Be sensitive to the signals , communication that the dog sends out . They are there. Look at your avatar . That to me is not a happy relaxed dog . Her facial expression from what I can see is stressed and sour.
You are straddling the dog which is intimidating to a young , sensitive , dog. Her facial muscles are taut , her ears are back . Consider things from the dog's perspective .

"When I picked her at a young age she was very "into" me and the breeder described her as a "people pleaser" -- but she probably was insecure and clingy .

All the other things you said about her staring off in space, choosing to sit beside you to stare at dogs, dragging you across the field for the safety of ther crate , going to your possessions , stuff that you would grab before you went somewhere , show that she wants to go , leave, avoid , and not work . "Tonight she ran off from me in class, jumped over the fence (where it was down) and ran about 200 feet away with her tug toy"
She may not be cut out for work.

#2 - how is it that you relate to her ? How do you show your pleasure and approval . You . With your voice, your posture, your expression. Not a pavlovian response to a clicker -- your emotional exchange with the dog. 
Opposite, how do you show disapproval . Are you critical 
most of the time. 
" teased her with the tug and tried to get her amped up to see me. She would just stare off into space, there was no desire at all to come to me"
-- so put away the toys and the tugs and the clickers. Have her attached to you like an umbilical chord . Don't give orders as you would in a drill or obedience exercise , have a line of communication, verbal praise (genuine) , praise through touch , safety in doing wrong , and acknowledgement when doing right. Patience . 
" I got a good bit of interest and then a pull to get to me and a good game of tug, but never with as much ooomph as I was looking for. " That is what I mean by being critical . She can't give or do more -- she gave you a good game of tug -- but you weren't happy because it wasn't up to your expectation. 
"out to the field on her long line and have mom hold her back from me while I teased her with the tug and tried to get her amped up to see me. She would just stare off into space, there was no desire at all to come to me"
What you could have done is have your mom hold her back. You make yourself attractive to the dog . Get rid of the tug . Staring off into space , unless she is a reborn astronomer, is avoidance . You could have lessened the space between yourself and the dog. Acted the fool , foxed her in , the moment her eyes flick to your direction YOU go to the dog , tickle her in her sweet spot , make a big deal , then as she gets animated YOU go away . Rinse and repeat . At some point when this becomes pleasurable to the animal , YOU are going to go in but cut short , huh, but the dog is looking forward to the interaction, YOU go away . At some point she will be putting tension on the lead trying to get closer to you . Let her advance a few feet . Continue foxing her , make contact a few times, and then cut short till she puts tension on the lead to see you. This is not an obedience exercise , it is "absence makes the heart grow fonder" . You are showing the dog that you can be a lot of fun and who doesn't like that.
When at peak , have your assistant put the dog away. 
15 minutes later (you'd be surprised how dogs process experience in those few idle moments) , then you go and bring her out , on lead and you just run and goof around , then put her away again.
She has to associate YOU and lack of pressure , no performance pressure. 

#3 "There are toys laying around that she will play with without human interaction. 
She's very into the other dogs. Will pull me to get to others, etc., and it's something I've been working on. "
Change this . No satisfaction without you . Too easy for dogs to chum with each other -- she needs to bond with you , and vice versa . 

#4 "Please keep in mind that this is my first working bred GSD. Before owning her I owned a BYB GSD who, despite all of her downfalls, worshiped the ground I walked on."
High expectations then of your working line bred dog.
Does your frustration and disappointment get communicated to the dog? 

Can you provide pedigree?

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Selzer , this working line person see it just as you do.
People tend to want to get their moneys worth and by dang that dog will attend class and do A B C , whether it wants to , is ready and able to, or even if it is wise to push on .
In this case I am seeing so much avoidance, the dog is cowering in the car not even wanting to get in to the building. I would take the dog in and sit on the side lines- get to the building on a day when there are no classes. By continuing to insist on going because it is scheduled on the calendar you may have a giant set back , which may ruin a good trusting, fair relationship. 

Carmen


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Your dog sounds really stressed and it sounds like you are putting a lot of pressure on her. 

Why take her favorite ball away if she enjoys carrying it around the yard? Why so many rules with an 8 month old puppy? 

Maybe now would be a good time to just let her be a dog, go back to the basics of bonding, building confidence, having fun, playing games, giving lots of positive feedback and rewards for any little thing she does right and lower your expectations for a while.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Any other BC owners out there want to chime in? It seems like a lot of obedience people like BC for their drive and intensity. GSDs seem to have a different attitude than the BCs I see showing. I agree with Carmen that the puppy is just overwhelmed and is avoiding, and is shutting down. 

I went a little nutty when I was training Arwen. Frodo was never trained, and I was harsh with him to get him to do what I want -- my mistake, but that would shut Arwen down. She got to the point where she would see the leash and run and hide. We were doing 30 minute down stays, and I realized that I was expecting way too much out of the puppy. I stopped completely and reevaluated. This was a dog that WANTED to please me. Arwen was my heart dog. She became my best obedience dog. I could go anywhere with her on lead, off lead, she heeled, she took first place at all three legs for her obedience title. But getting there required a change in attitude. 

I had to stop putting the responsibility on her, why won't she listen!?! The dog wanted to please me. I just had to believe that in my core, and I was able to change my approach completely. Because it was not her, it was me. By the time the eight weeks of the class I was in was up, she went from hiding when I got the leash to being at the top of her class, off lead and on lead, and I could have taken her in for her CD at that point. Three years later, I took her to another set of classes, and met with the instructor prior, and she was as on then as she was at the end of the first set of classes. I still miss her and think of her every day, and it has been years now.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

it would be interesting to see the pedigree, to see if this dog is DDR or predominantly DDR . Many people make mistakes by having a preformated agenda of what the dog should be doing when . These groups of dogs, including some Czech lines , are slow to mature , and because they have a "willing nature" don't train best with drill or repetitions normal to obedience class . 
Initially as young animals they may appear soft "just pets" , but watch out ! they come in to their own .
One of the reasons why schutzhund people tend not to do well with DDR dogs is due to this need to get competitive asap, get all the parts in . Meanwhile bite work may be half hearted if through prey -- at maturity be deep and serious . Leave the obedience drills. Start with tracking exploiting the dogs instincts , develop thinking and choice making, creative training.
You can live with them as excellent pets , socialize them, bond with them, then sleepers that some are, bring them out close to 18 months to 2 years , and start working them. They will be quite respectable . Usually good instincts . Watch them open up and develop , many starting to really hit their stride at 3 years of age . In my experience you also have longevity - 12 years plus , so 3 is still young for them.

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"She's been on a very limited play time/hanging out in the house time schedule the last little while "

Agree with what has been said about your dog seeming to be stressed/unhappy with the general run of things lately. My guess (only a guess mind you!) would be the above quote from your post is telling!

No play time with your pup and probably a little harsh in the OB stuff (only guesses mind you again).

YOU MUST BE FUN FOR YOUR DOG - make it pleasant for your baby!

Just a thought! (From experience with my own!)


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Just wanted to say - excellent posts Carmen.:thumbup: It shows how you need to look at the whole picture - not just a specific problem. 
_________
Sue


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

carmspack said:


> it would be interesting to see the pedigree, to see if this dog is DDR or predominantly DDR . Many people make mistakes by having a preformated agenda of what the dog should be doing when . These groups of dogs, including some Czech lines , are slow to mature , and because they have a "willing nature" don't train best with drill or repetitions normal to obedience class .
> Initially as young animals they may appear soft "just pets" , but watch out ! they come in to their own .
> One of the reasons why schutzhund people tend not to do well with DDR dogs is due to this need to get competitive asap, get all the parts in . Meanwhile bite work may be half hearted if through prey -- at maturity be deep and serious . Leave the obedience drills. Start with tracking exploiting the dogs instincts , develop thinking and choice making, creative training.
> You can live with them as excellent pets , socialize them, bond with them, then sleepers that some are, bring them out close to 18 months to 2 years , and start working them. They will be quite respectable . Usually good instincts . Watch them open up and develop , many starting to really hit their stride at 3 years of age . In my experience you also have longevity - 12 years plus , so 3 is still young for them.
> ...


Really good to know! Thank you for taking the time to type all that!


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## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

MaggieRoseLee, I really try to keep myself “fun” and upbeat to keep her interested. I notice a huge difference if I am more into what we’re training than when I’m not. For example, I don’t find obedience very fun, at all. It’s never been something I was into. So I usually find my dogs don’t have the same drive for it that I’d like to see, but I’m never very upset by that. I can’t expect my dog to love obedience if I don’t. 

I’ll check out the link you posted, thanks. 


SitUbuSit, I’ve read parts of it but am a visual learner and have been meaning to get the DVD. I’m trying not to take it too personally, and most of the time I don’t. I know she likes me, because she clobbers me all the time, and when I’ve been gone at school when I come home she is very excited to see me, even with this stage of her, so I try to remember that when I can’t even get her to engage in a simple game of tug. 

Selzer, I don’t find that I expect a lot from her, but it’s possible. Simi is a “stresser” and when she stresses in new places she will often jump up in front of me. She also does this at home, when there’s no stress and she’s happy to see me, but I can usually tell the difference between her body and the way she does it to know when it’s excited and when it’s stress. 

Perhaps you’re right and it’s time to take a break on classes. This is her 3rd level of obedience and each level is 6 weeks long, so it’s been a while, and considering she stresses at obedience, I can see how it would be hard on her. 

Carmspack, there’s nothing that I’ve noticed that has changed, besides our agility class, which honestly, she seems to enjoy a lot more than obedience. In the past 3 weeks we’ve had two temporary dogs come into the house that were fine with our pack, but that’s the only real change in our house. They’re both gone now and we’re back to our regular dogs. 

She is generally environmentally sound, yes. This obedience building is the only spot I’ve EVER had stress issues with her. We can go to new places and she doesn’t even hesitate. She only seems to have issues with the obedience place. 

She may have been insecure then, but I don’t think so. She was tugging on my pant legs, playing with my hands, very hyper and playful. It didn’t seem like a stressed or scared puppy – there was one of those in the litter, and she was nothing like it. When all of the other puppies ran to my mom, Simi ran to me, and this was at 7 weeks old. 

I know that those are signs she doesn’t want to work, but where those haven’t always been an issue, I’m doubting that it’s her not being cut out to work. I honestly can’t see how she wouldn’t be, unless I’ve done something to mess her up. She was her breeders second pick as a bitch to keep for working and potentially breeding. She has always been very go-go-go, lets do stuff. This avoidance has been going on in the obedience building since the beginning, but I see it no where else, up until this past little while that I’m seeing it at home and at agility too. 

I use clicker training so the clicker is always the same in terms of praise, but I’ll often use my voice and the reward of a game of tug, if she’s into it, with her. 

I was thinking about more just hanging out with her and doing stuff, without toys, without treats, just her and I. I’ve got a good long line, maybe we’ll take a hike tonight. 

The game of tug she gave me wasn’t so much not up to my expectations, but it wasn’t up to what I am used to from her, is more what I meant. However, she still got a big party and she won the tug and got lots of verbal praise and pats for doing what she did. 

I’ll try that suggestion on having mom hold her while I have no tug tonight and see how it goes. When we were working with her tug, I was pretty close to her, because I didn’t want to push her with too much distance, but she wasn’t very interested even at a close space. 

I’ll try to get all of the toys away. She’ll play with ANYTHING so it’s hard to take everything she’s interested in away. 

I am sure that my frustration gets communicated to the dog. I don’t correct her in any way, but I’m not a saint and my dog isn’t stupid. I’m sure she can tell when I’m not feeling 100% happy with her. When I am getting too frustrated I will remove myself from the equation, when possible, so that she doesn’t stress about the emotions I’m putting out. 

This is her sire: Artex Elbwarte - German Shepherd Dog

And her dam is Narnia's Tsunami BH, SchH II, IPO3, AD, FH, TD, but I can’t seem to find her pedigree. 

I am strongly considering dropping the obedience class. I’ve been wanting to, and have mentioned it to my trainer, but she seems to think that Simi just needs more socialization (which is true – she needs to meet and interact with more dogs, as she can be very rude or either scared when meeting new dogs), but she doesn’t really get anything positive out of classes. I’ve felt this way since the first week of her first grade, but I’ve been bullied, so to speak, to keep going to classes by my trainer, who means well. She saw the struggles I faced with my last GSD, Bella, and doesn’t want me to face that again, but I fear I’ll have another set of issues if I keep pushing Simi through these obedience classes. She at least sometimes enjoys the agility classes (more and more every week) but she still hates the obedience classes even after 12 weeks of me basically just clicking and treating her for anything that wasn’t sitting up against the wall, shut down. 

I think I’m going to shoot her breeder an e-mail to see what she thinks, too, and I’ll go from there. 

Thanks everyone for your input.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Carmspack nailed it.


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## erricsimmons457 (May 21, 2012)

I think as your puppy is just eight months old, you shouldn't worry about his not interacting with you.Rather you can focus on buying some good toys for it to play with.Puppies are very much playful in nature and I am sure as he matures, he will learn the art of playing with you.I hope this helps.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

AgilityPup said:


> This is her sire: Artex Elbwarte - German Shepherd Dog
> .


Ha! That is Hans's grandpa!  Cool!


Here is Tsunami. 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=616494


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I am a huge advocate of training to build a strong bond with your dog and have done this with obed, rally & agility.

BUT...

I have also bonded and think these few examples have made our bond even stronger, being included in everyday life.

-casual walk through a park, exploring together. Encouraging him to jump on that high fallen over tree, walk through the mucky water with me, all is good, confidence building. One-on-one time.

-inviting him to sit on the couch with me when I watch a movie and share some popcorn.

-being my company when running errands.

-giving him a job when doing laundry like carrying the empty basket upstairs for me.

-"find it" games

The list goes on...but you get the idea


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## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

Courtney, I agree. And I intend on doing just that. 

We just went out into the field, on a long line, with two balls and a chuckit and had a little fun. She doesn't have much of a retrieve right now, so it was lots of throwing the ball, and when she turned to look back at me, acting like a mad woman until she came back, then throwing the second, rinse and repeat. She really seemed to enjoy herself.  She even started offering a down, and when I walked away held it until I used her release word, in which case she drove out of her self-given stay and came to me as fast as she could, which of course was rewarded with a ball. 

I'm going to just do a lot of easy fun stuff with her for a while, I think. I did send an e-mail to her breeder, and I'm seriously considering putting our third grade of obedience on hold for a little while. It'll probably be 2 or 3 months before I could get her into the class again, if I wanted to, but maybe that'd be better for her.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Falkosmom said:


> Carmspack nailed it.


And really managed to suck me into it! I read every word! Great post Carmspack!

OP - I would challenge you to take your pup to a nature trail nearest you and just explore. Don't ask anything from her. Let her relax, smell new things and be a dog. Don't take toys, don't ask her to fetch, don't ask anything from her (besides basic good behavior). While you are exploring, every time she looks at you, everytime she turns to you, everytime she waits on you, tell her what a great pup she is. Throw her a party. Don't make her work for it, let it be natural.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with backing off and working on your 'bond' and just having FUN with her. I know you have a few other dogs, and that could very well be alot of the problem..The others are much more fun than you

She's also young as carmen pointed out, right now you want to do things with her that she is going to enjoy,


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Carmen what a fantastic post!!!

And really hit the nail on the head about Czech lines being slow to mature. 

I think following Carmspack's directions will really help strengthen and change Simi!


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## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

Lilie said:


> And really managed to suck me into it! I read every word! Great post Carmspack!
> 
> OP - I would challenge you to take your pup to a nature trail nearest you and just explore. Don't ask anything from her. Let her relax, smell new things and be a dog. Don't take toys, don't ask her to fetch, don't ask anything from her (besides basic good behavior). While you are exploring, every time she looks at you, everytime she turns to you, everytime she waits on you, tell her what a great pup she is. Throw her a party. Don't make her work for it, let it be natural.


We did just that tonight, and even if we got nothing out of it (but we did!) it was exactly what I needed. It was nice to just go out with Simi and not expect anything from her or from myself. She really seemed to enjoy it and she was paying lots of attention to me, but more importantly, we were playing an interacting. After reading this, I thought about it a bit today, and it makes complete sense to me that these are a good idea, not just for Simi, but for all of my dogs. It builds up the value of ME. 

We sat in the grass for a while and hung out, then we bounced around, playing, and then Simi decided that crawling along the grass to chase my feet was fun, so we did that a little, too. *happy sigh* It was nice.  

On a side note, we're going to go out and see her breeder this weekend. She'd like to see how she does there, and we'll go from there.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

AgilityPup said:


> On a side note, we're going to go out and see her breeder this weekend. She'd like to see how she does there, and we'll go from there.


So good that you get to do this. Please tell her that the family who has Hans from Questa's latest litter says hello, and that he is our dream dog.


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## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

For those interested, here's the blog post I wrote after our visit yesterday. It was well worth the trip out to see her. I'm glad I went. 



> So in the past week we've been doing a lot of me and Simi time, no toys, no treats, just her and I hanging out, going for walks on the trials around out place and in the back pastures. Already I noticed a difference in her, but I also contacted her breeder to go out and talk to her about it. Today we went out. ​ Upon first getting there, Simi cowered in the car, as she sometimes does. We waited while our breeder, Robin, finished up with someone else and Simi and I stood in the shade to keep cool. Simi was clearly not comfortable. Not crazy stressy, and not trying to pull me to my car, but not at ease. When it was time for us, Robin came over and when she did, Simi barked at her, Robin just ignored her and Simi dropped it, she started sniffing her and was fine. If people don't give a reaction to her barking, she's fine. So out into the field we go. We start with some restrained recalls, first without a toy or treat, and upon leaving Simi with Robin, she pulled trying to get to me, or get away from Robin, and when I called her she came running to me with so much speed and drive... but then kept on booking it past me probably 50 feet. So I turned and walked back to Robin and where I'd left my toys, to get a tug to try it with a toy, she ran over to me then and stopped and looked at me, and got a verbal praise and a pat. Took out a tug, did a restrained recall again. This time with me running, with the tug. Same reaction. Pulling to get to me, running as fast as she can to me, but then going right past me. She did this for every single recall we did. So I dropped the toy on the ground and drug it around and Simi came over and grabbed on for a game of tug, then she "won" I dropped the tug, grabbed the leash and she got her victory lap. Headed back over to Robin, rinse and repeat.​ ​ Oh wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. When I first got her tug out, Robin told me to play a game of tug with her, so I started how I usually do, smacking it on my legs, making lots of growly "gett ittttt" noises and nothing, so then I pulled the next trick in my book, pushing the tug forward into her face. Robin then told me to let it drag on the ground and let her chase it, and I did, and immediately she was on for a game of tug, that really turned her on, so that was what we did for tugging the rest of the session -- no more of that pushing the tug into her face thing.​ ​ So we did some recalls and then I went over to sit with Robin and she let me know what she thought. She figures a few things. A) Simi and I have a very poor bond. This wasn't surprising, I was assuming this was at least part, if not all, of our issue. and B) She thinks perhaps Simi is going through a fear stage. This makes complete sense. It would explain why I'm noticing it lately. It's not like Simi and I ever had a really strong bond, so that's not new, but the combination of the fear and the lack of bond together is the difference I'm noticing.​ ​ From there she recommended a few things. She tells me to cut out one of Simi's meals a day, and hand feed the other. Simi's fed twice a day, so I can handle this. No more breakfast, and handfed dinner. She said I can make her do simple things for her food when handfeeding or I can use that as a chance to shape new behaviors. She said that for our bond, we should be doing some obedience and stuff but not in a formal setting. So I'm going to go back to really basic, easy stuff here at home and make it as fun as possible. And for the fear thing she reccomends the buddy system, so to speak. She thinks that since Simi's so into the other dogs in the house I should use that at this stage. She said that I should be taking Simi lots of new places, with Psyche. This makes total sense to me. And it all kind of hit me there. Simi is a-okay at agility trials, fun matches, etc.. Those are all places I have Psyche with us! Even if they're not together, she always knows I have Psyche too. So I'm going to take Simi to some new places with Psyche, maybe even to the agility field a few times outside of classes with Psyche to let her see that it's a fun places. I'm going to make it my goal to take them on some adventures as much as possible. Am thinking we might take a trip to the docks later tonight. Robin said that letting Simi learn from the other dogs that things aren't scary, in this stage will help. I realize, though, I'm going to have to pair this time with lots of bonding time with Simi and I too, though, and I'll do that.​ ​ As a side note, I also got to see Lava, the bitch from the litter that Robin kept, and Simi is slightly smaller than her, and weighs less. But you can SO tell they're related. They've got the same adorable ears.​ ​ So there's where I sit right now. I'm going to give it a shot and see how it goes. Simi and I were also invited out to the "puppy classes" that she offers for the Schutzhund club, so we're going to try a few of those, too, probably.​


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with your breeder except for one thing..I would not cut out that second meal, but I would feed BOTH meals by hand.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

That sounds great for you and your pup! Congrats! And keep up the good work.


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## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

I've been doing a smaller/limited first meal and a hand-fed second meal with her. She usually gets 1 1/2 cups per feeding (so twice a day) but I've put her back to 1/2 a cup in the morning, and 1 1/2 in the evening, fed by hand. Already in the second night I am noticing a difference in her attention while working for her food. The first night she was kind of confused by HAVING to work, you could tell, but last night she was so "on". Very eager to work for me, offering straight heel positions, straight fronts, "puppy push-ups", which we've struggled with in the past, and even offering some of her shaped behaviours that I've worked on, but not named ("sad" where she puts her head down on the ground and keeps it there -- I've shaped some of this, while sitting/kneeling on the floor, never standing up, but with me standing up last night she was offering it!). It's very nice to see her offering behaviours instead of just walking away or staring off into space like she'd do previously. 

I've also seen a lot more of her coming to me in the house. Now if we leave the door to the dog fence open from the house, she'll not just stay outside the whole time, but come in, play with me, then when I tell her to go outside, she will. But she comes in a lot more often to see and visit with me, and is more eager to play with me now, too. 

Things are looking up already! If this is just the beginning stages of a bond with her, I'm excited for a full out working bond!


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## Wetdog (May 23, 2001)

Close order drill is not much fun.

Dogs do not work because they are interested in points, competitions or ribbons.

Dogs work because they are having fun.

Change the routine, change the venue, and change the reason for the training.

Make it fun.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

8 months old and hasn't been in season yet......my girls all seem to come in at around 9 months so be prepared. Has she blown her coat recently? Bunny turns into a complete drama queen about a month before she comes in season.


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## AgilityPup (Dec 9, 2007)

DunRingill said:


> 8 months old and hasn't been in season yet......my girls all seem to come in at around 9 months so be prepared. Has she blown her coat recently? Bunny turns into a complete drama queen about a month before she comes in season.


She's been blowing coat recently. 

I am SO not excited for her to come into season.


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