# "I want a dark/black sable DDR"



## Emoore

Is it just me, or is this kind of the new fad in GSDs? It used to be that everybody wanted a big black and red, but now it seems like it's swinging towards the dark and black sables? Or am I just now noticing because, uh, that's what I ended up with? :blush:

I'm just noticing a lot of people showing up saying they want a "darksableDDRCzechmale" but when you press a little more they don't really know anything about them?


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## elisabeth_00117

I noticed this too.

I also have to laugh at this because I have been contacting breeders (well known ones at that) and after we talk about temperament, nerve, my goals with the dog, etc.. they ask if I have a colour preference.

My answer - don't care what colour he/she is as long as they are within standard.

The response I get from said breeders - really? Are you sure?

Hahaha..


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## Josie/Zeus

I noticed the same thing, I just hope that they know what they are doing. I for one love the look of black and red gsds.


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## GSDBESTK9

I think Sables are becoming more and more popular these days (how could they not, they are just simply the most stunning! :wub:  ). 12 years ago I had no idea what a Sable was, when my friend bought her Sable puppy back then I wanted to tell her they sold her a mix. :rofl: :rofl:


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## GSDBESTK9

elisabeth_00117 said:


> I noticed this too.
> 
> I also have to laugh at this because I have been contacting breeders (well known ones at that) and after we talk about temperament, nerve, my goals with the dog, etc.. they ask if I have a colour preference.
> 
> My answer - don't care what colour he/she is as long as they are within standard.
> 
> The response I get from said breeders - really? Are you sure?
> 
> Hahaha..


 
Really???? I don't think I've ever heard Dennis ask a buyer if they have a color preference.


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## Lucy Dog

Josie/Zeus said:


> I noticed the same thing, I just hope that they know what they are doing. I for one love the look of black and red gsds.


I've noticed the recent trend too, but this board is so heavily favored towards workling lines that it's not really too surprising. Not saying anything is wrong with that though.

If they don't completely know what they're doing, hopefully they at least go with a breeder that does.


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## gagsd

Emoore said:


> Is it just me, or is this kind of the new fad in GSDs? It used to be that everybody wanted a big black and red, but now it seems like it's swinging towards the dark and black sables? Or am I just now noticing because, uh, that's what I ended up with? :blush:
> 
> I'm just noticing a lot of people showing up saying they want a "darksableDDRCzechmale" but when you press a little more they don't really know anything about them?


Yes, I see it as well. And then they get a beautiful, hunky dark sable, and a few weeks later the "inappropriate aggression" threads start. My dog barks at other dogs, my dog growled at me, my dog lunges at.....

THEN you get everybody saying find a behaviorist, check his thyroid, etc.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

This has been going on long enough to see a lot of them in shelters/rescue, so it's been...a while now - going on a couple of years maybe?


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## Jessiewessie99

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> This has been going on long enough to see a lot of them in shelters/rescue, so it's been...a while now - going on a couple of years maybe?


Yep, my shelter gets a few. There was recently a beautiful LH Sable boy. Now we we have a beautiful light sable boy. And we have a 3 month old sable pup that I wanted really bad.


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## Liesje

I've noticed this too. People have asked me about it personally because they see Pan or Boy and assume they are DDRs because they are darker sables and Boy has a nice head. Then I have to try to explain the differences in lines but NOT over-generalize and always qualify everything with it being "just my opinion or preference". So many people ask me why I DIDNT get a DDR dog and it's curious to me how much weight my response seems to carry. I don't want anyone deciding to get this dog or that based on *my* choices.

I do have a color preference - really who doesn't? - but it's not a main priority. When I got Pan it was between him (sable) and a black and tan boy. I believe I ended up with Pan because I said I would be happy with a smaller more compact male (seems everyone wants giant males too) and Pan is fairly small, about 10lbs lighter at the moment than the other puppy that would have been a match for me. I was honest and said I prefer a sable because I feel they are easier to show than solid black or bi-color but that is not what narrowed the choices or ultimately made the decision.


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## elisabeth_00117

GSDBESTK9 said:


> Really???? I don't think I've ever heard Dennis ask a buyer if they have a color preference.


This was just in talk, not really something the breeders make their decision on.


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## GSDBESTK9

Oh I'm sure.


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## gsdraven

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> This has been going on long enough to see a lot of them in shelters/rescue, so it's been...a while now - going on a couple of years maybe?


That's where my handsome sable boy is from.


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## NancyJ

Well, color might be important to me if I could get an orange (not showline orange), reflective, glow in the dark dog but - of course I think sables and blacks are the "prettiest" but really there are so many other more important things to "worry about"


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## VonKromeHaus

You know, to be honest...I HATED the Sable color when I got Judge. I thought that it was just ugly. Especially as a puppy when he was tan/red with a black stripe down his back and black spots on his toes! 

I definetely didn't seek out the Sable color, I just wanted the best dog out of the litter, regardless of color. I wish that the Blk or Blk/Tan boys would have been better suited for work. But the Sable(Judge) was it. (The other 2 have nicer heads as well). 

Now that I own a sable, the color doesn't bother me, not something that I would ever seek out as when I buy a puppy, I want the best puppy regardless of color. This litter that I helped raise has everything from a couple very nice blk/tans to a couple very nice sables, I'd take a sable over the blk/tans cause the sables are the better dogs out of the litter, if the blk/tans were better, I'd take one of them. 

I've seen a lot of people want the "Dark Sable/Black DDR/Czech dogs" and they ahev no clue what they are getting into. Sad really.


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## sagelfn

Noticed it too. Not so much the DDR but definitely the blk/dark sable color preference...coming soon to a BYB near you. 

I absolutely :wub:LOVE:wub: Missy's dog Akbar. He is so gorgeous.

Not the line for me though.


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## GSD07

I think there is nothing wrong in wanting to have a perfect 'temperament, health and color' package. If the search for that perfect dog takes longer then so be it. For example, my next pup when the time comes will not be black simply because I love my current dog too much... If the breeder makes fun of this then I'll just shrug it off and move on. 

I think it's not just the color of DDRs that is a fad. There is also this idea that if someone wants a low drive calm dog that looks impressive then DDR is the choice. Then a big surprise is waiting down the road when people realize that the working temperament is more complex then just an ability to chase the ball endlessly, and a dog with lower prey and food drive will be a handful especially for those who rely on treats in training. Compulsion has to be used smartly too because the harder you push the harder your dog pushes back, and if you are not ready to make him a partner in your relationship, you'll get his big furry paw.

From my experience


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## KZoppa

lol i'm one of those people who wants a black sable male. I love GSDs but sables have my heart before all other colors. When i was a kid i feel in love with the PDs GSDs. They had a gorgeous black sable male that i just adored. Big sweetie too. I just had no idea what the coloring was called until i joined the board.


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## WarrantsWifey

I <3 Sables, the darker the prettier in my eyes. I love Killians temperament. He is a great dog!! Someone put it to me this way, which I agree. The saddle back GSD is like "Old Clothes" for a GSD, the Sables are like "New Clothes". More modern, less classic. No offense to everybody who has a saddle back or blaket back! I love all GSD's!!!


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## GSDBESTK9

Sables are NOT modern, it is actually the original color of the GSD.


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## Lilie

I think to be totally fair, I don't think there is a connection between color and temperment. Not until the buyer is educated. 

If I wanted to purchase a new Arabian, and I stated I want a bay mare, there would be no reason for me to think the color is driven from a certain line, which could be more (or less) horse then I am looking for. 

If I wasn't a member of this board, I'd have absolutely no idea. I'd research the GSD colors and say, "Wow! This is beautiful! That is what I'd like!" Thinking the entire time a GSD is a GSD is a GSD. A bad dog is a result of a bad owner. 

It has to be up to the breeder to educate.


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## Kris10

WarrantsWifey said:


> I <3 Sables, the darker the prettier in my eyes. I love Killians temperament. He is a great dog!! Someone put it to me this way, which I agree. The saddle back GSD is like "Old Clothes" for a GSD, the Sables are like "New Clothes". More modern, less classic. No offense to everybody who has a saddle back or blaket back! I love all GSD's!!!


The GSD I grew up with in the 70's-80's was a sable, so that to me was what a "typical" GSD should look like!


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## KZoppa

Kris10 said:


> The GSD I grew up with in the 70's-80's was a sable, so that to me was what a "typical" GSD should look like!


 
i grew up watching the dog shows on TV and seeing the black and tan/red with the saddle. I LOVED GSDs then but that pattern with the coloring never fully appealed to me. But wolves are also my favorite animals and you always see a silver sable color on them or some variation of sable or solid colors. Thats another draw i have to the sables.


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## martemchik

I've always wanted a saddle back so that no one would ever confuse what my dog was. Plus that is pretty much all you see around where I live. Then after doing some research I shied away from show line and went towards working line and when I finally laid eyes on a sable (his mother) I knew I wanted one. 

My local GSD club even mentioned at one point that the dark sable is the color preference that is becoming popular and more accepted at the moment. I think its awesome that I have the only sable at the whole club and that only people really in tune with the breed know that he's purebred. I think that they are becoming popular because people want purebred dogs but also want to be different, so the sable is the way to go.

I've had GSD owners come up to me and ask if he's a purebred, at which point I tend to smile and think to myself, "why do you own one?"


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## Emoore

GSD07 said:


> I think there is nothing wrong in wanting to have a perfect 'temperament, health and color' package. If the search for that perfect dog takes longer then so be it. For example, my next pup when the time comes will not be black simply because I love my current dog too much... If the breeder makes fun of this then I'll just shrug it off and move on.
> )


I agree with you on this. After Cash passed, I started looking for a stable-nerved dog that I could do anything and everything with-- obedience, agility, rally, Schutzhund, long off-leash hikes in the woods. Lower prey drive was important to me because I _do_ go hiking in the woods a lot and wanted a dog that wouldn't take off after every animal. I wanted a dog that I could work, play, and hike with and at the end of the day he'd settle nicely in the house. *AND* I wanted a sable male. I wanted all of those things, color included, and was willing to look around and wait until I found the right one. I ended up with a mostly East German dog, but didn't go out looking for a DDR. 

That's a whole lot different from saying "I want a dog and he has to be a dark sable DDR". 



GSD07 said:


> There is also this idea that if someone wants a low drive calm dog that looks impressive then DDR is the choice.


I think part of the problem is that people think "calm in the house, has an off-switch" means low drive. Just because they're not crazy hyper doesn't mean DDR dogs are low in drive. They still need a job to do and they still need quality training, otherwise you end up with those issues mentioned earlier.


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## JakodaCD OA

masi is my first sable colored dog, I honestly wasn't attracted to them either, always had black/tans and bi colors..I wanted good health and temperament first, she just happened to be sable) Now of course I find them stunning 

Maybe it's the wolfy look that have made them become more popular for color??


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## ozshepherd

I like the sables but wouldn't own one.....simply because I would get sick of people (including GSD owners) asking me "so whats he crossed with?"
Mind you....still get that with a black!!!!


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## WarrantsWifey

ozshepherd said:


> I like the sables but wouldn't own one.....simply because I would get sick of people (including GSD owners) asking me "so whats he crossed with?"
> Mind you....still get that with a black!!!!


OH GOSH YES! ALL THE TIME!!! What breed is he?! You serious?! DUH!!!! lmbo!


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## KZoppa

ozshepherd said:


> I like the sables but wouldn't own one.....simply because I would get sick of people (including GSD owners) asking me "so whats he crossed with?"
> Mind you....still get that with a black!!!!


 
i had that problem with people asking if Shelby was PB. She's american showline Black and tan saddle that everyone recognizes as a shepherd but i always got asked if she was PB. it can be annoying either way.


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## ozshepherd

I had this guy trying to tell me that the blacks, "black and tans", bi-colours etc were "Alsatians" and the saddle backs were German Shepherds......he had a saddle back.......what the??!!!:crazy:


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## KZoppa

ozshepherd said:


> I had this guy trying to tell me that the blacks, "black and tans", bi-colours etc were "Alsatians" and the saddle backs were German Shepherds......he had a saddle back.......what the??!!!:crazy:


 

and face palm moment! lol wow. special. just special.


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## Achielles UD

I started off with a B/T from the pound (labeld as a lab mix...pic of him as my avatar). When I went looking for another, I wanted another B/T. Love love love the B/T(R). Next dog, Axel, I was NOT looking for a sable... hated the sable coloring. Axel grew up (his like had a little East - went back to Robby) and was a dark sable  Loved him. Was hoping for a sable or B/T(R) for next dog... nope!!! Rescued a White from the local pound! Knew I would get the sable or B/T(R) next... again nope! Ended up with a Solid Black longcoat! Now just love her looks too! lol Most recent (almost a year and a half ago now though lol) is ****... Lovely, Gorgeous rich Sable with deep red undertones.

Next on my list is a Bi!!  lol


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## KZoppa

Zena was my first PB and she or we just stumbled into each others lives. We had been looking for a companion for Riley and the choices we had were between a little brittany spaniel or Zena a PB GSD. The spaniel was absolutely terrified so we never even met her. Met Zena and i fell in love. Zena was a sable though i didnt know it at the time. She's a patterned sable like Shasta is. I've always had a thing for sables. Always the ones i would go to first when we got to meet the police dogs at demonstrations sometimes.


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## GSDElsa

I don't think this is a new thing. I remember it a couple years ago when I joined the forum...there were several "I want a black sable" threads. 

In some ways...I do think temperment and color go hand in hand...to an extent and very generally. Sables are almost always working lines. Same with bi-colors. "Black and reds" are almost always showlines, etc. So while you can't discern actualy PERSONALITY....you could at least get a general feel what line (and thus what general traits) the dog might have. If someone love black and red but has aspirations to be at WUSV one day...chances are they aren't going to have luck unless they give color or the world's dream up.


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## PaddyD

Josie/Zeus said:


> I noticed the same thing, I just hope that they know what they are doing. I for one love the look of black and red gsds.


I noticed it too. I for one like the black and red/tan also. But it's all in the eye of the beholder. My black/tan has some sable siblings and a sable mother who I just don't think are half as good looking ....... I know, totally subjective.


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## robinhuerta

I am now & always have been in love with the "dark sable" coloring of this breed.
The "look" of the DDR (type) dogs have always caught my eye....and I have always (from as far back as I knew what DDR stood for)..desired this "type" of dog.
*I'M GUILTY....I LOVE THE GENERAL APPEARANCE*.
Although (obviously).....I breed/compete with primarily Black & red "looking" dogs.....I will always favor the "look" of the dark sable.

*I am speaking only of a preferred "color" of dog(s)...not particular dogs themselves. And NO GSD, should ever be bred or sought for, solely because of it's color or appearance.*


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## Castlemaid

> I'm just noticing a lot of people showing up saying they want a "darksableDDRCzechmale" but when you press a little more they don't really know anything about them?


Nope, not just you! I think there was thread about this in the PDB a year ago or so - lots of others have noticed the same thing. People are becoming aware of sables, and they want something different and unusual - I do think it is something of a fad. And it is ALWAYS the dark/black sable that people want - of course the dark ones are just stunning, but just another indication of people choosing a dog on looks/colour and not knowing anything about them. 

One issue that was discussed PDB (I just vaguely remembe the thread), was that with so many people looking for the dark sable now, a lot of pet breeders have stepped up to meet the demand by breeding specifically DDR lines and for the black sable colouring to cater to the general public, not really knowing what they are breeding, and the public not really knowing what they are buying. And over time, the better pet quality dogs will be bred (pet quality as in lower drives, softer temperament) to fill the pet niche. Another example of how popularity is ruining the GSD.  

A few years back I didn't even know that there was such a thing as a sable GSD, and at first, I thought they looked "weird". As I got used to seeing sables, it really grew on me!


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## JakodaCD OA

My sister is a lab person, she swears (and so does her breeder), that the yellow labs are usually the smartest, next black, and the doofiest of them are chocolates...She has had all 3 colors and that seem to ring true

I will admit I am always drawn to a dark dog whether it be black/dark sable/ a rich black and tan/bicolor. Heck I have 5 black cats ! LOL.. I haven't found in my gsd's to say that one color was smarter than the other..I do remember my am line blac/tan huge boy, was dumb as a rock, lovable and mushy, but just wasn't working with a full deck My girlz have probably been the smartest by far, altho I loved my boys


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## PaddyD

I wonder if it is because sables look wolf-like and maybe more 'natural' ????
It's nice to know you have a well-trained and obedient wolf.


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## LaRen616

I love dark dogs too, like black Great Danes, Dobermans, black GSD's, dark sable GSD's and bicolor GSD's. 

But I wont settle for a dog just because I like it's color, it has to have the right temperment and drive that I am looking for.

With how many dogs there are in the world, there is bound to be several dogs that are the color I want and have the temperment I want.

In almost every litter there are pups that are suitable for work and there are pups that can be just a family pet.​


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## jprice103

Cheyenne came from a litter of 10 sables. They all looked absolutely identical...not one distinguishing mark between them. Anyway, the breeder told us that he was told by several people that he was going to have a really hard time selling them because no one wanted sables! They were all spoken for in less than a week!


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## VomBlack

I remember the first 2 black sable GSDs I had met I was so thrown off by their coloring, having seen every other combination but that. They were both SchH dogs, had amazing temperaments and were really very stunning dogs. I had always had an interest in the sport and that kind of helped me look into a club and look for a dog, and of course I ended up with a b/t.  

Would I love a dark sable for my next dog? Absolutely, but i'm also looking for another active sport dog. I'll take a dog that matches the temperament I want first, instead of having a pretty dog that I don't mesh well with.. but coincidentally I like the Czech and DDR lines so I may be lucky and get both.. or I may end up with another black/tan dog.



> My sister is a lab person, she swears (and so does her breeder), that the yellow labs are usually the smartest, next black, and the doofiest of them are chocolates...She has had all 3 colors and that seem to ring true


In the 6 years or so that i've been working at various vet hospitals i've definitely noticed something being a little "off" about the chocolate labs. Who knows if it's really something with the color or maybe some subconcious thing with the people who prefer them.. but either way it's interesting.


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## carmspack

GSD07 said -- that the working drive is more complex then just the ability to chase the ball endlessly --- thank you for that . Especially the word complex. I think this is what makes them so satisfying , a bouquet of behaviours and potentials , not just the one note . 
and
Emoore said -- people think that calm in the house , has an off switch means low drive" --- thank you for that . 
People do ask for low drive , but that does not mean low activity . You can have a hyper active dog who does not have drive to give him direction. 

Sables , I feel like I am "the home of sables" .
Last year I had a young couple inquire about pups. I wrote scads of information, provided links with pedigree ancestry, pictures of near relative of recent litters, email addresses , phone numbers of owners so that they could satisfy themselves about what they could expect from my breeding.
They asked for a black and red . Which is still the colour that the vast majority of interested "pet" buyers ask for-- and will , and have stated, that they would settle for less , compromise , to get that colour.
I made it abundantly clear over and over again that these are not black and tans -- they are sable .
I told them I would get to know them the best that I could, and with that understanding as time went on try to find the pup , female, in that litter that best suited their situation and ability and time . 
They came and spent hours when the dogs were 5 weeks of age, again stating , so these are sable. Showed them sire and dam , both sable. 
They came again the following week , again sable -- they asked , so when will they be black and tan . I had to go over it again and explain the genetics of what sable is.
All told they came a total of four times each time spending a minimum of 2 hours , usually more like 3 . I welcome the visits because it allows me an opportunity to socialize the pups to other people and to observe the pups without my active involvement.
They were so stuck on the black and tans . 
I finally said that I don't think it would work out , that there would be one comment from someone met while walking the dog questioning "what breed is that" and they would go to pieces. I recommended that they find themselves a breeder with black and reds that they thought was good.

If I put an ad in the paper -- the calls always start of with , I am looking for ablackandredmalegermanshepherd -- .

I love the bicolour . While driving out for a training session at psdontario's the other day there was a young woman walking this absolutely stunning bicolour . I was going east , she west . I got whiplash looking at the dog --. Could not stop because there was a lot of traffic on this fast road. But I will make a point of heading out there with pups to socialize in that town hoping to meet up with her.
I have had litters where there have been bicolour and I still select with my head not my heart . Colour is low to no for selection importance.

I do think that there is a problem with some ddr breeders breeding for colour and selling for colour. You see it on their web site banners 

we breed for black sable, sable, black 

they list the colours before they mention anything about we breed for .......(fill in the blanks anything else )

signing off Carmspack - "the house of Sables"
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## holland

...but what if the stunning bi-color came from a byb. Remember never ever buy from a byb-and yes tradegies happen every day


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## ed1911

We were actually looking for a black and red shepherd when my dark sable picked us. At the time we werent crazy about the color but his temperment was outstanding. I wouldent trade him for 100 black and reds now.


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## sirius

I personally didn't have a color preference when I got Sirius (my GSD) at the time. (He's the bicolor in my album.) Anyway, I have to say in general they would be my favorite color but when I get a second GSD I don't really care what I end up with. 

As for the sables, I never really thought about the "mix" assumptions. Probably because I'm used to people on here knowing what they are, rather than people outside the form. We also have an American White GSD/ possible husky mix. Everywhere we go we gets "It's a wolf" or "Is that a wolf?" A mom actually convinced her son that..


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## PaddyD

Album?
I have an album, why can't I see yours?


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## Andaka

I have had dogs of almost every color -- sable, black & tan, bi-color and black. But blacks have always been my favorites.


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## carmspack

*I want a dark/black sable DDR*



holland said:


> ...but what if the stunning bi-color came from a byb. Remember never ever buy from a byb-and yes tradegies happen every day


 
then triple nyet, no, never , ever --- but I would satisfy my curiousity. I always ask "where from " whether good or bad -- collecting stats .
this looked like a good dog.


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## GSD07

carmspack said:


> ... that there would be one comment from someone met while walking the dog questioning "what breed is that" and they would go to pieces. ...


 It always puzzles me why it is so important that others, often not GSD people, recognize that the dog is PB. I do not care if people think that I own a GSD or a mix, in fact, when I was socializing Anton with kids I often told that he was a lab mix. You have no idea what a difference it made in mom's behaviors.


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## ponyfarm

I think people are looking for the sable because they represent what the stereotypical ASL is NOT. People do not want the froggy look anymore..and I know not all are that way..but IMO that is why folks are leaning toward the sables.


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## holland

You can get an ASL sable


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## trapper66

So where do all black fit in to this?


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## onyx'girl

I think people like the looks of the black sable, as in Puck v Grafental, because for a long time they were unique. When I first saw the "thug" here I fell in love with him and wanted a pup just like him. But then after researching the DDR's, I decided I'd rather have a blend of WG/Czech and that blending is not usually producing black sables.
In the past few years the black sables become more prevalent on the boards, it isn't really "new" that people are now wanting them.
I still love the black sable, all black or bi-color or blanket back with a dark mask, just my preference. 
The ASL sables are usually washed out, and still have the structure of the ASL...


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## Castlemaid

trapper66 said:


> So where do all black fit in to this?


Not sure I understand your question?


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## holland

The ASL sable I saw was not washed out-working lines can be washed out too or at least not richly pigmented. ASL also come in black


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## onyx'girl

holland, do you have any pics of a black sable ASL? I'd be curious to see one.


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## holland

It was not a black sable I said it was a sable


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## JakodaCD OA

I have always admired this sable ASL girl, knew her when she was a puppy
Soot is a one in a million dog


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## holland

Thats a nice looking female-


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## Jessiewessie99

I have always liked black animals(horses, cats, dogs.) When we were looking for a companion for Molly, color was the last thing we were worried about. Tanner had the temperament we wanted and got along well with Molly, and just happened to be black. I love his wolfish looks. I always knew that sables were GSD, they all had that similar GSD look, just didn't know there were different lines.

For my next dog I wouldn't mind having a sable(light, dark, black or red) nor would I mind having a black & tan, black and red, black, white. As long as the do fits what I am looking for.


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## jprice103

holland said:


> You can get an ASL sable


I don't want to sound stupid, but I'm a new GSD owner so bear with me please. What does ASL stand for?


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## holland

American showline


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## JohnnyB

I'm "one of them". I love sables (dark sables even more). I cannot remember where now, but some how I got a reference to DDR/Czech GSD. I initially thought, wow, that's what I'm looking for.

I'm still researching and talking to people about that line. What I'm finding is that they have less PREY drive and are more "hard" (I guess would be the term). What got me thinking is will the less prey drive be harder for me to train. Maybe more difficult for those wanting to trial?

In my mind, most sable seemed to be working dogs. After having a show line dog I decided I wanted a working line for my next. I'm in now hurry and am willing to wait to get what I want (or think I want!).

Any way, color does play a factor for me, and most I believe. It just may not be a lower priority for some.


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## holland

I think dogs with higher prey drive are easier to train because you can use a toy-but you could always use food-I really enjoy training with a toy though. Also think that dogs only come in so many colors so it shouldn't be such a big deal to get a dog with a good temperment in a color you like


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## NancyJ

I think that there is wide variation in Czech/DDR lines.
You cannot lay a blanket assessment on all of them as people tend to.

I imagine that is true of any "type" - it is more about the genetics behind the individual dog - a topic about which very few (and I am not one of them) can talk intellegently.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I want HER dark sable! (Grim stalker strikes again!)

ETA - Nancy, how big is Grim again - that's one the things I love about him!


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## vomlittlehaus

That is funny that this thread is going on now. I have three black sable pups at my house. When we were looking for the sire of this litter, color was not on our list of things we were looking for. That said, him being 'black sable' was just a bonus, since 'everyone seems to be wanting one now'. And that came from a breeder who has been breeding for 20 yrs.


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## NancyJ

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I want HER dark sable! (Grim stalker strikes again!)
> 
> ETA - Nancy, how big is Grim again - that's one the things I love about him!


Grim is a small boy - 23 inches and 72 pounds but very muscular with big beefy thighs and heavy bone. He is missing part of his tail from crate spinning as a pup (I got him as young adult) but he is not a crate spinner now, nor is he OCD.

He does have an off switch but only for so long. We are not talking about a lay around dog. I have spurs on my shins and a pretty bad rotator cuff due to Grim.

Environmentally he is very hard but to me, he only wants to please. I have yet to put as much as a pinch collar on him. Great temperament. Not "social butterfly" but very approachable...just yesterday he had the neighbors 5 year old and 2 year old playing with him and he was ever so gentle but pretty much ignored their father.

When I got him, I wanted a young adult for cadaver work as my female had just been diagnosed with severe HD and the stars aligned he became mine.

Czech dog with more DDR close up than some other Czech pedigrees. Dark sable. Very coarse coat-almost wiry.


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## Lauri & The Gang

All things being equal (for what I want in a GSD), I *would* pick based on color.

I prefer a dark faced GSD. My ASL GSDs all had dark faces and that's what I liked.

Now, having Mauser, I will be looking for a long coat dark sable in the future. I absolutely LOVE his coloring!

If I found a perfect (for me) GSD pup in solid Black or White or Panda or Black & Tan - I would say no. I'm willing to wait for what I REALLY want ... and I see nothing wrong with that.

What I would NOT do is pick a dog *ONLY* based on color.


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## JakodaCD OA

that Grimmy boy would compliment my Masi very well))

And your right about the ddr/czech..more to do with genetics than just saying ddr/czech..

Masi is slovak/ddr/czech (basically all the same thing) and she can be a tough dog to live with at times,,does NOT have alot of prey drive, but LOADS of play drive. She would go all day if I asked her, and is no couch potatoe, tho in the last 6 months I think she's finally maturing out more and settles nicely..IF I do 'nothing' with her for a day or two, I will pay for it) 

Gorgeous yes, but in the end ya gotta be able to live with them, I wouldn't trade her for the world, but for most who want a pet to just hang around with, she would probably drive them bonkers))


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## Lin

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Now, having Mauser, I will be looking for a long coat dark sable in the future. I absolutely LOVE his coloring!


I'm in love with Mauser.... I want a Mauser clone 

I really want a long coat dark/black sable male for my next dog.. Thats just not going to be for a while! But I've thought about contacting breeders I'm interested in, and asking if I could possibly be put on a list for exactly that (after temperament/personality etc of course)... And if I have to wait 5 years for that perfect dog to pop up, so be it!


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## GSDElsa

Lin said:


> I'm in love with Mauser.... I want a Mauser clone
> 
> I really want a long coat dark/black sable male for my next dog.. Thats just not going to be for a while! But I've thought about contacting breeders I'm interested in, and asking if I could possibly be put on a list for exactly that (after temperament/personality etc of course)... And if I have to wait 5 years for that perfect dog to pop up, so be it!


Check this boy out!








My good girlfriend fostered him for a long time and he turned into a foster failure. He's so handsome. Had a horrible deep ear infection (had to have surgery) and prob had a stroke at some point because his head is always tilted....so he had some aggression issues when she got him--likely from pain and confusion (he had no balance to get up and down stairs), but ended up with the best personality. He is Elsa's "boyfriend."


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## kelso

What an interesting topic.

I thought I noticed more people in the past few years "wanting" or even posting/owning sables/dark sables just because at that point I finally knew what they were  Same thing with rescues, just thought I saw more of them at first because I could now pick them out. 

Did not join this forum or any GSD forum until after we had Kelso (sable).. and I was thinking when I joined, neat... a whole bunch of other people have sables..breeders of sables ect. Yeah, I know how naive that sounds, but it is what it is! We all learn somehow!

When we brought Kelso (sable) home in 2006 (can't understand how it has been that long already!!!) I had just learned about sable GSDs, and really the bigger world of GSDs in general..yikes. What a learning curve and have now learned so much. We had an Am line black and tan and were looking on the net for another GSD, we really just wanted a "do anything and everything" dog and started learning more about the different lines, working lines, and eventually found the breeder that had Kelso as we did want a dog to possibly try SchH with. We were not looking for a sable initially, or any color, we just wanted a suitable male from the litter (all sables, one was a long coat I think..) 

Another GSD (now have Allie as well, beautiful bi-color  ) is far off for us, but even so, I can't say exactly what we will be looking for as I would like to do the rescue route again and really do not have a color preference at all. 

Funny!


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## TechieDog

I'm not ashamed to say I love dark sables, especially black sables. If that's the fad, so be it. The pup I am waiting for now will be sable, not sure if it will be dark or not since that's not my highest priority but if the stars align properly I could end up with a black sable. :crossing fingers:


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## JakodaCD OA

here's an example,,I went for a long hike with Masi yesterday , came across a guy and girl with their pittie mix,,he says "WOW that is exactly the color of german shepherd I want, where'd you get her?"

I said the dog pound)


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## KZoppa

JakodaCD OA said:


> here's an example,,I went for a long hike with Masi yesterday , came across a guy and girl with their pittie mix,,he says "WOW that is exactly the color of german shepherd I want, where'd you get her?"
> 
> I said the dog pound)


 

LMAO!!!! Good one. great response.


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## Andaka

JakodaCD OA said:


> here's an example,,I went for a long hike with Masi yesterday , came across a guy and girl with their pittie mix,,he says "WOW that is exactly the color of german shepherd I want, where'd you get her?"
> 
> I said the dog pound)


Good for you!


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## Samba

I have had every accepted color and would take any color. It is so inconsequential when living with a dog. I like a dark dog but color doesn't go clear through!


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## hunterisgreat

Both my breeders would not allow color preference to play into it. Only thing I could pick was the sex.


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## onyxena

I am also looking at different breeders, wanting a pup in a couple years. And I do have a preference for looks. For me, wanting a certain look is just part of selecting the total package of the dog that I will be happy living with, and looking at, for the next dozen-ish years. I strongly prefer a darker color over a dog thats otherwise the same. If I selected a breeder and the particular litter didnt have any pups that were going to mature to be fairly dark, I would wait for a different breeder or litter. However, I am open to having a black sable, bi-color, blanket b&t, or solid black! Of course all GSDs are beautiful! But with so many different coat types and colors, I see nothing wrong with having a preference, or no preference. I am pretty sure I will be able to get exactly the dog Iam wanting, temp, health, and looks if I just keep looking and am patient. Of course, I will not be shopping based only on looks! But I want a dog that I enjoy looking at too!


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## gagsd

onyxena said:


> For me, wanting a certain look is just part of selecting the total package of the dog that I will be happy living with, and looking at, for the next dozen-ish years.


Agreed!


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## JakodaCD OA

I definately have a preference for my next male , however, I have always said, I'd rather have an ugly dog with brains, than a beautiful one that was dumb as a rock) I've been lucky to have had beautiful dogs with brains so far


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## Lin

onyxena said:


> And I do have a preference for looks. For me, wanting a certain look is just part of selecting the total package of the dog that I will be happy living with, and looking at, for the next dozen-ish years.


Exactly, same here. Its all about the whole package, not about color above all else. But to be honest I HAVE been afraid to mention the color preference to breeders I'm interested in, I'm afraid they would turn me away for it.

And I understand that what you're looking for isn't always what you need. When I adopted Emma, she was not what I was looking for at all but was exactly what I needed. 

I just still want that "perfect" dog, and have to admit color DOES play into that!


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## susee

GSD07 said:


> I think there is nothing wrong in wanting to have a perfect 'temperament, health and color' package. If the search for that perfect dog takes longer then so be it. For example, my next pup when the time comes will not be black simply because I love my current dog too much... If the breeder makes fun of this then I'll just shrug it off and move on.
> 
> I think it's not just the color of DDRs that is a fad. There is also this idea that if someone wants a low drive calm dog that looks impressive then DDR is the choice. Then a big surprise is waiting down the road when people realize that the working temperament is more complex then just an ability to chase the ball endlessly, and a dog with lower prey and food drive will be a handful especially for those who rely on treats in training. Compulsion has to be used smartly too because the harder you push the harder your dog pushes back, and if you are not ready to make him a partner in your relationship, you'll get his big furry paw.
> 
> From my experience


For someone getting their first GSD, thats a big step anyway, but if selecting a working lines dog, what research in particular would you be recommending in preparing for that Dog before it came home. Which particular drives are you going to see in a higher concentration than the show lines


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## fuzzybunny

gagsd said:


> Yes, I see it as well. And then they get a beautiful, hunky dark sable, and a few weeks later the "inappropriate aggression" threads start. My dog barks at other dogs, my dog growled at me, my dog lunges at.....


What exactly are they doing that causes this to occur? Not exercising enough, not finding a job for the dog, not correcting/disciplining, not being pack leader in general?

I guess I'm wondering what you'd have to do differently with a working line vs. a show-line? I've always done all of the above with any dog I've had so I'm wondering where the majority who have these issues are going wrong.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

To me, and I could be* totally* wrong and will happily be corrected, it's that the aggression is actually...kind of appropriate. Our dogs should be aggressive - that's why they should not be the #3 most popular breed in America. Now, the owner should know how to handle it, and it shouldn't come out inappropriate times and the dog comfortable with their person/the relationship (and person comfy w/the dog) so that they know they don't need to be utilizing this quality. ???


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## fuzzybunny

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> To me, and I could be* totally* wrong and will happily be corrected, it's that the aggression is actually...kind of appropriate. Our dogs should be aggressive - that's why they should not be the #3 most popular breed in America. Now, the owner should know how to handle it, and it shouldn't come out inappropriate times and the dog comfortable with their person/the relationship (and person comfy w/the dog) so that they know they don't need to be utilizing this quality. ???


Am I correct then in assuming the show-lines don't show this quality as much? What do you do differently in terms of training a working line so that they're not randomly aggressive towards anyone/anything?


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## NancyJ

Perhaps that goes back to the original post

People want a LOOK but not a GSD ..........

But most of the agression I see people posting about is from nervy dogs, not good true natural agression -- I have never seen that in my WL GSDs though I am not sure they would tolerate unfair behavior particularly well. And you can get weak nerves in any lines, though working lines folks tend to weed that out better I think.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

That's the follow up piece then yes - one, it can be someone who has too much dog for themselves, and the other, they get the color and the look - but because that is on trend - it is not well produced.


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## cliffson1

Its so tiresome debunking the many myths that routine circulate the pet world. Inappropriate aggression is a majority of the time a result of lack of nerve base. There are far far fewer dogs with nerve issues from showlines than from workinglines(though lack of nerves can be in any lines; if your statement applies to the exception it will mislead the uninformed, and I thought we were trying to educate on this forum) and black sables and sables in general are more associated with workingline dogs. Today's sport working dogs generally show a very balanced temperament, though they may not have balanced drives. (There is a difference in drives and temperament). So I don't think if the OP wants a darker sable dog she/he should be assuming that high aggression is something to be wary of. Even in Czech lines there are very few lines left that really produce high aggression in breeding true to form. Most working lines today DONT have an abundance of aggression which is one of the reasons the patrol dog has been so highly infiltrated by the malinois.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I think what I was responding to and what others were saying on this thread - person sees a pretty dog. Pretty dog is a black sable. I want that dog based on looks and not based on anything else about the dog. I buy the first one I see - without a lot of knowledge in any area. I have not had a dog like this before. Then in a couple of months, I am overwhelmed by the dog. I think my dog should be a schnuggly huggy sweetie pie who loves all people and dogs. Not the dogs' fault or the lines fault, though perhaps you will see different things more consistently in some, others in others. 

I don't think some people - #3 breed in the country - want to or can accept that there is any aggression in our dogs. Just like people cannot accept that certain breeds are supposed to be dog aggressive, that Chow Chows should be aloof, etc. They want what they want in the packaging they want it in. They want the look of a bully breed and still go to a dog park. They want the look of a Border Collie, but not all that "weird" energy. They want the wrapper, but not everything that comes with it.


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## rjThor

I've only had the traditional saddleback in the past, and honestly with the INTERNET we are exposed more to alot more than when I was growing up as a kid, wasn't till a few years back I found out about the sabble and the all black GSD, and hopefully I wont get beaten up for this one, but I did have a preference in the color I wanted in my GSD this time around along with his temperment, I didn't know and honestly I still dont know so maybe you guys can educate me in the difference in temperment in the traditional GSD, as apposed to the sable or black one's. Maybe I got lucky or found a great breeder, but I have nothing but praise for the black one I have now, he's a quick learner, very loyal, and so attentive when we are out and abouts. So please guys if you can take a minute and explain the difference between them I would greatly appreciate it. I'n a year I do plan on expanding our family and I do want a sable for Thor's playmate. Thank You


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## cliffson1

You can get good temperament from all the different types. But you often see people assume that Black sables(especially from Czech lines or workinglines) have a big chance of "inappropriate aggression". This is just not he case. There was a time maybe twenty years ago that many Czech dogs had high levels of aggression. The same with some of the German working lines, but today you don't see many lines with appropriate aggression, and most of the time I see inappropriate aggression it comes from weak nerves. Just don't like to see labels unless what is being labeleed tends to be the norm...that way the uninformed aren't misled.


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## Jessiewessie99

rjThor said:


> I've only had the traditional saddleback in the past, and honestly with the INTERNET we are exposed more to alot more than when I was growing up as a kid, wasn't till a few years back I found out about the sabble and the all black GSD, and hopefully I wont get beaten up for this one, but I did have a preference in the color I wanted in my GSD this time around along with his temperment, I didn't know and honestly I still dont know so maybe you guys can educate me in the difference in temperment in the traditional GSD, as apposed to the sable or black one's. Maybe I got lucky or found a great breeder, but I have nothing but praise for the black one I have now, he's a quick learner, very loyal, and so attentive when we are out and abouts. So please guys if you can take a minute and explain the difference between them I would greatly appreciate it. I'n a year I do plan on expanding our family and I do want a sable for Thor's playmate. Thank You


I don't think color has anything to do with temperament or training ability. I think it really depends on the lines, because you can get black dogs in showlines, and you can get sables(usually light sables) in showlines, but they are more dominant in working lines.

But I really don't think color has to do with temperament, IMO.


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## Virginia

Like Jessie said, there's no correlation between coat color and temperament. Only general trends between temperament and lines. You could have an all black GSD that's a total couch potato and has no drive to learn or you could have one that's got drive and energy out the wazoo. Just like how you can have a "traditional" black/tan or black/red GSD who has an excellent, stable temperament and is suitable as a working dog, family companion and guardian, or you can have a traditional looking GSD that is a nervy mess. It all depends on the dog's genetics. That's why it's so important to understand the different lines (German show, German working, Czech, American, etc.) when you're considering a dog, not what color the dog is going to be. The color is only one small aspect of a companion that's going to be around for the next 10 - 15 years. 

Most reputable breeders will work with you to find a dog that's a good match for your family and in the coat color that you desire, but no reputable breeder will sell you a dog just cause you want that color GSD, or if all you tell them is that you want a sable/all black/black & tan/white GSD with nothing else about the temperament you want or what kind of activities and home situation the dog will be involved in. IMO, choosing a dog for its looks and coat color foremost is a huge mistake. Just like how dating someone for their looks, but not personality is a huge mistake. That's really been the theme of this entire thread - people who want one of those solid, masculine looking DDR/Czech GSDs because they look awesome and intimidating, but with no knowledge of what the DDR temperament entails.

This link is provided here a lot, and it's a good introduction to the different lines and some aspects of the temperament. 

Breed Types & Related Families


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## Lin

rjThor said:


> I didn't know and honestly I still dont know so maybe you guys can educate me in the difference in temperment in the traditional GSD, as apposed to the sable or black one's.


Absolutely nothing. I think you asked that question in your first thread on this forum? 

There is absolutely no connection between temperament and color. There IS a connection between temperament and what line the breeding is. And some lines, are more likely to have certain colors. You won't find a sable in a german showline, but a differing temperament in a sable dog has nothing to do with being sable and rather everything to do with being a working/czech/whatever line dog.


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## rjThor

Lin to be honest with you, for me a GSD was a dog, growing up i've had 2 of them, so I really didn't know the difference between a show n a working one, all I knew is that they are great companions and very loyal, maybe that has to do with how they are brought up by the owners n how they are treated n respected, so when I became a member of this forum is when my eyes n my knowledge in them has expanded, I have talked about or have asked in the past about this in other threads, it's because i'm trying to get as much knowledge for myself to help me in the future, not to say that the advice given to me i'll live by it, but it does help me. For me my GSD have been for my home and nothing else, when I first came on here, I was shastised for picking a puppy on color, but for me if I tell the breeder what I'm looking for in a puppy and what color I want, I'm putting my trust In him to give me what I'm asking for in the color of puppy I want, and like I said maybe I got lucky, or maybe he is one **** of a breeder, because not only did he let me choose the puppy that I wanted in the litter, he told me all his puppies are very sociable n very protective with the families that they have gone with, being able to see the parents n a bigger brother that was let out so he could run where we were at, and having him come over and hang around us while we were next to the breeder was very impressive, at no time did he worry about the black GSD jumping or biting US, that along with how he maintained his puppies n the parents sold me that I was at the right place. I've actually uploaded both pics of parents and also the line of his ancesters, It was brought up by another member on here how we actually have dogs that are related, and how they are both from E n W Germany. So all I'm trying to say is i'm trying to soak n educate myself while trying to understand the reasoning behind the so called barriers between them.


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## susee

Me to Thor, and its a really complex matter in so many ways isnt it.
At least we cre enough about researching as thoroughly as we can.


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## rjThor

susee you are right, it seems so complex, but when you think about it, and you really don't have the knowledge of some of the folks on here it does make you think twice as hard about the matter, when I've never had to before, maybe I was naive or ignorant on the differences, but I'm really glad that the breeder let me choose the puppy I wanted, and the color that I wanted, I really love our Thor, as does my son, and I wouldn't trade him or sell him for all the money in the world....


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## gagsd

cliffson1 said:


> Its so tiresome debunking the many myths that routine circulate the pet world. Inappropriate aggression is a majority of the time a result of lack of nerve base. There are far far fewer dogs with nerve issues from showlines than from workinglines(though lack of nerves can be in any lines; if your statement applies to the exception it will mislead the uninformed, and I thought we were trying to educate on this forum) and black sables and sables in general are more associated with workingline dogs. Today's sport working dogs generally show a very balanced temperament, though they may not have balanced drives. (There is a difference in drives and temperament). So I don't think if the OP wants a darker sable dog she/he should be assuming that high aggression is something to be wary of. Even in Czech lines there are very few lines left that really produce high aggression in breeding true to form. Most working lines today DONT have an abundance of aggression which is one of the reasons the patrol dog has been so highly infiltrated by the malinois.


I don't think it is a "myth" that certain lines (that tend to be dark sable) are known for sharpness, high suspicion, quick-trigger... whatever term would work. 
Certainly not all dark sable dogs are quick to aggress, and not all Czech or DDR types are. 
But, I have seen quite a few that would not be a good idea in the hands of a novice. I own one.

Now this can be said of ANY line or color..... research what you are getting and don't just fall for the looks. 
Too many people that I have seen, get a dog from bloodlines known to produce strong temperament, and then freak out when the dog actually acts like what one might expect, based on the lines.

BTW-when I use "inappropriate" aggression, I am meaning that to me, the aggression is not actually inappropriate. Misunderstood and not appreciated perhaps.


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## susee

In Australia it is more common to be able to select your own Puppy,  obviously that is a variable situation depending on breeders, and how much help people ask for, but generally most people with any breeds report they
"fell in love with ......... because ......." and chose it

And i dont think its so wrong to have a colour pref, * just as long as it happens to be the breed that is ...suitable for the people........ not just a colour /look thing

We are having the terrible consequences here atm with a few breeds that have become very popular------- 
ie": the most popular breeds sold atm 

But are also the breeds mostly highyl represented in shelters

Now we are not talking Labs here, but particular breeds that you really hope are in the hands, and of course they are not, and now the shelters are actully haemorraging ( spelling ) with them , they are, the " Dog Du Jour"
picked purely for their physical look, with zero understanding of the dominant sets of drives that come with them.

Until people can demonstrate an understanding of these breeds they they should not be allowed to be just handed out to anyone. 
Sorry, but the dog parks have become blood bath's, as usual its not the breeds fault.

To look into a 80 year old ladys eyes 2 mins after her beloved aged frail companion has been mauled and hear her say, simply.

" Why are people allowed to have these Dogs as pets" well its common sense, we all know the breeds that " very highly represented in dog to dog attacks/ maulings actually, and we all know that they more often than not end up in th eworng hands, very sad for ht e dogs, 10000's being pts , not their fault

This issue of owner eduction, and demonstration of understanding prior to delivery of said animal is a must these days
Yes G Retievers, Labs and other can all do the same thing, but we are talking about breeds that 
.........constantly very highly represented in serious injury human/ dog, that are requiring a lot more supervision

So i think ask ask ask , the more beautifully trained and responsibly owned dogs there are, the better off we all will be as dog owners.


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## susee

And,,,,,,,, can you imagine if it proved to be a Malinois that was involved in the recent USA Seals op, and that was widely publicised, all of a sudden the breed would be in huge demand..... but at least you would think the majorityof those breeders w ould realise that..but..... 

And there *was a warning posted about that somewhere i read when they were debating the type of breed involved


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## Jessiewessie99

Its perfectly fine to have a color preference, but it shouldn't be the only thing you are looking for. If working lines have all the qualities you want in a dog and have the color you want, then go ahead and get a working line. But the thing is people need to research the breed before they go and buy a dog based on color because it looks pretty, and then when the dog gets to be too much for them they get rid of it.


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## Konotashi

I've noticed that trend too. 

Like most, I also have a color preference. I'm going to go with a GWL or GSL, because I like the traditional black/tan.

Actually, my true preference would be a liver/tan, but the chances of me finding a well bred one is fairly slim, so I'm not keeping my hopes too high.


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## cliffson1

The majority of the people that buy dogs based on color buy Black and Red/Tn dogs. Most breeders will tell you there are far more people requesting a black and Rd/Tn than sables as the color being a basis for getting a dog.


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