# Diarrhea... Again



## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Hello everyone. So long story coming but bear with me. My 17 week old puppy was on totw high Prarie but was stooling massive stools 6+ times a day, was drinking a whole lot of water and was not keeping her weight on. 

We had been fighting giardia since she was 10 weeks old (it finally cleared after four weeks) so when I had her last check up I was shocked to see she had only gained one pound from her 14 to 17 week check up. I'd also been noticing her thinning out more. I told the vet about her kibble and her poop and the vet suggested changing. So after a bit of research I decided to try slllooowwwllly switching to wellness core. 

This is where the trouble began again. 

I thought I had switched slow enough but after the second day she had pretty much liquid diarrhea. What's crazy was it was like this: morning stool good, she ate, poop two hours later was also good and then a few after hours that pure mushy liquid diarrhea. 

I'm at a loss. I cut back on the new food immediately after the mushy liquid poop but it didnt help, the next day all poops were liquid. She even had an accident in her kennel, something she didn't even do when she had full blown giardia. Could the switch have caused the giardia to come back? 

I already gave her some kaopectate for the diarrhea (she's been on a pro biotic since we started the first treatment of giardia) and gave her some boiled rice and pumpkin this AM instead of kibble. 

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm all ears.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Sounds like the giardia might not have been totally eliminated. I would have another fecal sample checked to make sure. We're dealing with giardia right now, and boy, am I over it. Nasty little parasite! I hope whatever it is your puppy starts feeling better soon!


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

GypsyGhost said:


> Sounds like the giardia might not have been totally eliminated. I would have another fecal sample checked to make sure. We're dealing with giardia right now, and boy, am I over it. Nasty little parasite! I hope whatever it is your puppy starts feeling better soon!


It's just frustrating because we did three rounds and she was finally having "normal" stools for about two weeks. Oh well.


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## Aviorwolf (Apr 10, 2013)

Sometimes metronidazole works wonders for diarrhea issues in general, not just bacterial infections. Might try more of that, or start a course, if your vet approves. When my GSD was that age he had the same problems and TOTW High Prairie did work for him, but of course every dog is different. Given the prevalence of puppy diarrhea, I think it's often something they seem to grow out of. My dog went from refusing every food I tried to eating anything and digesting it fine, including lettuce and other undoglike items. How is your pup otherwise? Active, etc.? Good luck with your girl!


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Aviorwolf said:


> Sometimes metronidazole works wonders for diarrhea issues in general, not just bacterial infections. Might try more of that, or start a course, if your vet approves. When my GSD was that age he had the same problems and TOTW High Prairie did work for him, but of course every dog is different. Given the prevalence of puppy diarrhea, I think it's often something they seem to grow out of. My dog went from refusing every food I tried to eating anything and digesting it fine, including lettuce and other undoglike items. How is your pup otherwise? Active, etc.? Good luck with your girl!


I'll call Monday and see what the vet says, we had been using pancur c powder to treat the giardia because the vet was more comfortable giving that in terms of success. 

And I sure hope she grows out of it soon. My two childhood dogs were feed pretty much crap puppy chow and leftovers from dinner and didn't have nearly as much problems as this little girl is giving me. 

She thankfully has never through all the "diarrhea days" acted sick, lethargic or anything other than her playful crazy little self. She's such a joy to be around (and fiesty too!) that I just hate her having such a rough little start in life.


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## Aviorwolf (Apr 10, 2013)

Glad she seems healthy otherwise. I can totally relate to your struggles; Nik had to go to the Pet ER to get fluids, etc. and I was pretty much a wreck trying to get him to just EAT! I think as a baby he was also sensitive to chicken, which is a fairly common GSD puppy thing apparently. Try avoiding that. Yes, I would give the metronidazole a try; it has helped for numerous gut issues.


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Aviorwolf said:


> Glad she seems healthy otherwise. I can totally relate to your struggles; Nik had to go to the Pet ER to get fluids, etc. and I was pretty much a wreck trying to get him to just EAT! I think as a baby he was also sensitive to chicken, which is a fairly common GSD puppy thing apparently. Try avoiding that. Yes, I would give the metronidazole a try; it has helped for numerous gut issues.


Thankfully she's always drank enough water. I did however stock up on fluid and the supplies needed if she ever did become dehydrated so I could do it at home. I'm a nurse so the vet was fine with me having it just in case. 


I'll double check the ingredients of the wellness core. I know totw high Prarie is bison and if it is the kibble I might just have to tough it out with that kibble. 

If I knew how to upload a photo I'd show you her little face.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Hi Sandy!
Not all Digestive Enzymes/ProBiotics are created equal!
Here are two Human Ingredients products that are fantastic! They are a combination to help assimilate/digest food and keep the "good" bacteria in the gut!
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Sunday-Sundae.html
*Digest All Plus* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/digestive-support/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html 

Another thing you could try is Slippery Elm (purchased from a local health food store not GNC) given an hour or so before eating will coat his stomach and prepare it for food. This is used short term.


Many on this blog have given their dogs Kocci Free for Giardia/Coccideia (all herbals) with great success! There is also a homeopathic that you can add called "Bowl Nosode" if it is a really tough case. Let me know if you'd like the info.




MSM (an organic sulphur) makes the bowel "a very unfriendly place for parasites". There are very different grades of msm. This one is the best! My husband and I take it too for our joints! Read about it here and on Bergstrom's other pages: http://www.bergstromnutrition.com/our-company/certifications
http://www.bergstromnutrition.com/pu...esale-partners . On that page is a company called Kala who distributes it. They are great! I get a 10# container. I give it every day as our property is full of wild life. 




Please do not give your dog human anti-diarrhea medicine without direction from your vet. Could be dangerous for a herding breed IF they carry the MDR1 gene. Washington State University: "_Many herding breed dogs have a genetic predisposition to adverse drug reactions involving over a dozen different drugs. The most serious adverse drug reactions involve several antiparasitic agents (ivermectin, milbemycin and related drugs), the antidiarrheal agent loperamide (*Imodium*), and several anticancer drugs (vincristine, doxorubicin, others). These drug sensitivities result from a mutation in the multidrug resistance gene (MDR1 gene)."

_TOTW is made by Diamond, which I personally do not trust after reading about how filthy their manufacturing plants are. 


Have you considered that chicken or flax seed in kibbles could be causing your dogs problem? It does with many. Read the labels carefully to make sure there isn't chicken or chicken fat somewhere in the list. My boy is sensitive to flax seed!



Also, be careful with treats and the ingredients they contain. Choose high quality (*non grain*) or make your own. 




This is the recipe my holistic vet suggests: Boneless, skinless de-fatted chicken breast or turkey breast, boiled, grease rinsed off, shredded and cooled. (note: packaged ground turkey breast from the store is easy). Mix 50/50 (or 1:1) with canned pureed PLAIN pumpkin. Again, adjust amount per day fed for your size dog, and divide into 3 or 4 smaller meals.


Hope this helps!
Moms


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Maybe check for SIBO? Is it possible an imbalance in good/bad bacteria was created from treating the giardia?


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Hi Sandy!
> Not all Digestive Enzymes/ProBiotics are created equal!
> Here are two Human Ingredients products that are fantastic! They are a combination to help assimilate/digest food and keep the "good" bacteria in the gut!
> *Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Sunday-Sundae.html
> ...


Thanks for the info. I started giving her MSM right around the time I thought we beat the giardia for good (she's been on it everyday since so going on about three weeks). I give her Fortiflora probiotic once a day with her food. 

As soon as you mentioned the Kocci Free I remembered I had bought it a few weeks ago and never given it. So I just started her on that. 

And my vet was the one that said I could use Kaopectate as it is bismuth subsalicylate and safer for dogs if the diarrhea ever got really bad (I only used it once before and she did fine) . She had given me the dosage when my puppy was a few pounds lighter so I weighed her real quick this AM and adjusted the dose accordingly. 

I have heard that about Totw and after looking at the ingredients for wellness it is mainly chicken (so maybe that's it?) if so do you recommend any other brands I could try or ones that worked with your dog? 

And I thankfully make all my treats for her and she's been getting the same thing since I got her and I haven't seen it affect her one way or the other. 

What's puzzling me is that she was doing pretty good for about two weeks before I decided to change her food. I'm hoping it was just the food. 

Thanks though for all the info. I had totally forgotten that I had kocci free already and since it appears to help the gut anyway, even if it's not the giardia I figure it can't hurt her anyway. 

Thanks!


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> Maybe check for SIBO? Is it possible an imbalance in good/bad bacteria was created from treating the giardia?


I'll ask come Monday. My poor vet, I'll have a notepad of suggestions and questions for her. Thanks! 

Like I mentioned earlier, it just puzzles me that all was okay until I changed the food. She'd been having diarrhea-less stools for close to three weeks when this all started. 

I regret changing her food now but I just wanted her off totw mainly because of her lack of weight gain. But I just dontdon't know what to try next if I ever try to switch ever again. Haha


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

SandyRehn said:


> Thanks for the info. I started giving her MSM right around the time I thought we beat the giardia for good (she's been on it everyday since so going on about three weeks). I give her Fortiflora probiotic once a day with her food.
> 
> As soon as you mentioned the Kocci Free I remembered I had bought it a few weeks ago and never given it. So I just started her on that.
> 
> ...


That's great that you have the Kocci Free and the MSM!

For food:

-My first choice would be *The Honest Kitchen *Human Grade products. 

-If you need to get something locally, Petsmart carries *Natures VARIETY Limited Ingredients:* Lamb: Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Pea Protein, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Lamb, Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract

-If you have a Doggie Boutique near by: *Acana Limited Single Ingredients:* Pork: Deboned pork, pork meal, green lentils, red lentils, pork liver, butternut squash, pork fat, green peas, yellow peas, canola oil, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin, carrots, pork kidney, freeze-dried pork liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, zinc proteinat.

Keep us posted!
Moms


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Momto2GSDs said:


> That's great that you have the Kocci Free and the MSM!
> 
> For food:
> 
> ...


Would either of those be okay for a puppy? She's 18 weeks Tuesday.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

The Honest Kitchen: Embark and Love are for All Life Stages. This is a dehydrated food, so don't be shocked at the price of a 10# box! All Natural Dog Food - Dehydrated Pet Food | The Honest Kitchen
Find a store:Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen 

Nature's Variety Lamb: Complete and balanced for all life stages and all breeds

Acana Pork: food that’s perfectly suited to diet-sensitive dogs of all breeds and life stages.

If you put her on my vets recipe for several days, but use cooked and rinsed/drained/cooled beef (ground round or ground chuck: hamburger has way too much fat) with the pumpkin, it would be an easy transition on to one of the foods above. If you choose to do this, only add small amounts of new food until you see how her gut responds.

Moms


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## SandyRehn (Jun 2, 2013)

Hey everyone, just a quick update. We tested the stool, it came back negative, so I put her on a bland diet and tried wellness core one last time. I went alot slower this time (two weeks) and I'm happy to report she is on wellness core, gaining weight well and pooping nice small stools about three to four times a day. She is still taking a probiotic but only twice a week and she seems to be doing great. 

Thanks for all your suggestions and allowing me to "vent". It was very appreciated!


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