# Tug toys, yes or no?



## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I read someplace not to play tug with your dog because they invariably "win." I played tug with Bear and Buddy when they were young, and Buddy used to play tug with my daughter's Australian cattle dog, Bruizer. I've noticed Rey picks up a lot of sticks (She got one caught in her throat yesterday and we had our first experience of me opening those jaws and reaching in between all those pointy teeth to save her). But I also noticed she'll get a long stick and offer the end to Buddy. After choking, I'm now saying "drop it." (Hey, this dog is turning out way smarter than I'd have imagined). But I'm wondering if I should buy a tug toy for them. Anyone ever had problems with a tug toy?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i've always played tug with my dogs. i always
let them win at the end of the game. sometimes
in the middle of the game i'll let go of the tug
and my dog takes off with it. then he'll stop and turn
and look at me. that means chase me. i do. he runs
away. then i'll stop and call him to me and we start all over.
my dog will play tug with anything. i have a tug toy.

you read not to play tug with your dog because they
invariably "win". so what if they win?


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I would... if Knuckles would let me  He lets go of his end everytime I pick up my end.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> you read not to play tug with your dog because they
> invariably "win". so what if they win?


That's what I always thought. Methinks I've read TOO much online. It was about being a pack leader, and I've tried to read as much as I can since the dog I brought home recently was not a small pup, but 17 months. I have also used tug toys with both my other German Shepherds and never had a problem. In fact, they love them. Rey obviously likes to play tug and I'd much rather her play it with a toy than keep trying to play it with my curtains and tablecloth. But since I read that somewhere (I think maybe on the Leerburg site), I thought I'd get the opinion of others who own GSD.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I play tug with my two all the time.It is a great way to work them mentally and physically. I don't let them always win. I use the tug time as a great way to do OB exercises, and I think it reinforces the fact that I am the pack leader, because I win too. They do have to out the tug when told, and all in all they LOVE the whole game.


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## LukasGSD (May 18, 2011)

I think as long as you teach them it's a game to play WITH you not against you. He has to out when I tell him to and he has to bring it back after I let him 'win' to begin the game again. I never actually ever pull the tug from his mouth. If I did that too much he wouldn't want to play.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i never pull the tug from my dogs mouth no matter
what's being used as a tug toy. i'm afraid of pulling
the tug from his mouth might hurt his teeth or
his mouth in some way.



LukasGSD said:


> I think as long as you teach them it's a game to play WITH you not against you. He has to out when I tell him to and he has to bring it back after I let him 'win' to begin the game again.
> 
> >>>>> I never actually ever pull the tug from his mouth. <<<<<
> 
> ...


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## gsdheeler (Apr 12, 2010)

I teach a "give" when I play tug and also a "ok" for when they can take it again. I also found the need to teach "fingers" and "easy" for when they regrip the toy. I use a tug toy for Obed. training and agility training, so I look at tugging as a reward for the dog, I also use it to amp up a dog during training sesson. To me tugging is something that is taught, it does have rules, it is a training tool just like food and praise.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My females aren't into tug. Kacie will try, but her tooth alignment is so bad, I think it probably hurts her. Onyx won't tug.
Karlo absolutely loves to tug and is very good at it! I use it as a reward in training. 
I think a game of tug is great, and it won't make a dog dominant or aggressive as some believe. For dogs that lack confidence winning at tug will build up their confidence, but they know we are the one in control of the game, because we end it when we want it to end. 
It wears me out, my hands, neck and shoulders hurt sometimes from our games.


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> I read someplace not to play tug with your dog because they invariably "win."


I've heard that too. I think it represents a fairly antagonistic view of the human-dog relationship. Your dog shouldn't be allowed to run away with the toy and self-satisfy on it, but he should be able to "win" the toy briefly, and bring it right back because you're the source of all the fun.

So if he's having a really good tug session and is super engaged, and is showing all the energy and strength that you want, it's OK to let go of the tug, and let him prance around with it for a few seconds, victorious. Then, he should come right back to you to play all over again. That to me, is a win-win. 

If you never let your dog win, he might not want to play with you as much (would you want to play with someone who never let you win?). Or, on the occasions where he has grip of the toy, he may try to run away with it because he knows he won't get it at the end of the game. Never letting him win places an artificial value on the toy by depriving him of it. The point of tug shouldn't be about the toy, it's the interaction between you and your dog. 

I really like how Michael Ellis trains on this. His view is that your dog should see the tug as valuable only because it's a vehicle of engagement with you in this fun game that you play together. It's not like a bully stick that he wants to go chew on for hours by himself.

Before you can have really positive tug games, you need a solid foundation of engagement, and your dog must be reliable on the "out" command. Some people start playing tug before the foundation work, and that makes it harder to have good tug sessions. 

I highly recommend the Michael Ellis DVD on playing tug with your dog. That might be the best of all his DVDs. It is very, very good.


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## SitUbuSit (Aug 1, 2011)

I also would rephrase the poll question a little, from "Do your dogs play with tug toys?" to "Do you play tug with your dog?" 

The answer to the former is "it depends." The answer to the latter is "yes."


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My dog didn't have a reliable out when we started tugging, he learned to out later...outing isn't something I wanted to teach right away. 
I wanted him to 'want' to calmly possess the tug and not spit it when it went dead.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I play tug with Sasha sometimes. Sometimes she wins (genuinely is stronger than me and just pulls it out of my hands), sometimes I let her win, and sometimes I win. To me it isn't a power struggle kind of thing though; we're playing and that's it.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

I've just recently started playing tug with Woolf. I know, I know, smack my forehead. The previous 2 trainers had cautioned not to play tug because it would increase his aggression. So of course since I didn't want that to happen, I followed direction ugghh.

At the first session with Chris, she asked how often and with what we played tug. Guess what homework was? We had a 13 month old pup that had to learn to play tug.

Now he loves it, my hands and shoulder hates it lol. When he wins, talk about a victory dance. He's good on his release and sit. I am starting to work the tug in some as reward for other training.

Yet another lesson learned, making up lost time and retraining both of us.

And ya know.... he hasn't become more aggressive :shocked:


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I play tug with Brutus and he usually wins, Oso refuses to tug back on the rope if I am holding it. However, my dogs have fun playing tug together all the time.


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## Gracie's My Girl (May 27, 2011)

I play tug quite a bit. I use it as a training aid mainly because she will do anything for the chance to yank it around. As long as the dog listens to you during the game, I can't imagine why it would be a problem.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Tug is absolutely fantastic for training - as long as your game has RULES. My rules are - I start the game. I stop the game. I choose whether my dog gets to win (run off with the toy) or whether I get to win (tell her to "out" and take it).


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I play tug with all my dogs that enjoy tugging and they play tug with each other. We've got toys all over the house and yard at all times. I let my dog win the tug all the time, that's the point of the game! Give him some confidence and fight! I let him fight it away from me and then he runs right back and slams it into me for more. Both my male GSDs play this way. The only reason I take the tug away is because I'm tired and I only leave certain tugs on the ground (the ones I play with would get destroyed). The dogs have tug ropes and Kong Wubba toys that they can use for tugging with each other. I tug whether my dog knows out/aus or not, there are easy ways of instantly getting a tug back without a lot of obedience training.


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## LibertyBelle (Dec 19, 2011)

Liberty LOVES playing tug. I've read that the owner should always initiate the game of tug and not the dog. (However I find it quite hard to turn her down when she brings me her tug toy for a game or 2 or 8). You should also teach them the command "drop it". This is important because lots of dogs will think they have "won" when you give up pulling and walk away. This will make them feel "in charge" per say. Liberty understands "drop it" but sometimes she tests us. Eye contact and a firm command usually works.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

We are encouraged to play tug with our dogs as part of Shutzhund training. The dog gets to win and run off the field with tug in mouth. 

It also teaches the dog that you are fun to play with.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

LibertyBelle said:


> Liberty LOVES playing tug. I've read that the owner should always initiate the game of tug and not the dog. (However I find it quite hard to turn her down when she brings me her tug toy for a game or 2 or 8). You should also teach them the command "drop it". This is important because lots of dogs will think they have "won" when you give up pulling and walk away. This will make them feel "in charge" per say. Liberty understands "drop it" but sometimes she tests us. Eye contact and a firm command usually works.


This kind of stuff to me is just hot air. If a dog is treating its owner like a doormat, a tug toy is not going to change that one way or the other.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

In the beginning I have to put on some major theatrics to get him to tug enthusiastically, although once I've made the tug very rewarding he's pretty into it. But he's more into chasing balls, so we don't tug very often because tugging tires me out way more than throwing a ball does.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Well, Reyka is hyper, gets bored and she needs to gradually be trained better house manners before I can let her sit in my office when I'm working (even on-leash she grabs, nips and chews EVERYTHING, pulling papers down, shaking doggie floor pillows, etc.). She plays rough and I'm trying to train her what's appropriate to chomp on and what's not. I'm spending about 3-4 hours, in intervals, walking, directing and playing with this dog daily. We played with the tug toy for about 15 min. yesterday and today, and she loves it. She often spontaneously brings it to me when I let her "win," then sometimes it takes more than once to get her "come" and to "drop it," but she's overall getting the gist. Her Kong arrived today and she's rocking the crate with it right now while I work.  Happy that she enjoys it so much. My tasmanian devil dog has really come a long way in the short 12 days she's been here. So tug is going to be one of her games. She can interact, chomp and chew without chewing me, my things or my other dog!


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I love tugging, Dax loves tugging. I also love to use tugging as a reward during training or as a way to tire him out indoors.

I decided to take a class at a new training facility some time ago and at the first class at the new place they said you should NEVER tug with a German Shepherd because they would think they were in charge. To make things worse these were trainers who also bred GSDs and trained them in obedience. I have no idea why- to them it was fine to tug with your BC, but if you tug with the GSD they will forget all boundaries you taught them and walk right over you. (I have gone back to my original training place!)

I think just like everything else, there should be two parts of the game- the part where your dog has to do something for you and the part where your dog has lots of fun. Even if all my dog has to do is drop it for 1 second and then I say OK and he can tug again- as long he is following the rules and having fun it is a good experience. For tug, Dax doesn't care about the toy- if we aren't playing tug he just ignores the toy.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I tend not to over think simple games. My Golden does not play tug - he wants to fetch. 

My GSD will tug, but he never applies enough force to jerk it out of my hands. I have to watch myself when playing with him. He likes the tug to squeak and he'd rather chomp on it while I'm tugging. 

My doxie will tug for a moment...turn and run barking madly with her eyes on the ceiling waiting for the toy to fly over her head.


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## mssandslinger (Sep 21, 2010)

Kittilicious said:


> I would... if Knuckles would let me  He lets go of his end everytime I pick up my end.


same with my zero haha


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