# Best Breeder/Kennel in all of Europe



## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

I am interested in purchasing a male working line German Shepherd puppy for protection training and IGP. I have researched a lot but wanted to see who the best breeders/kennels are in Europe. I know that it cannot be narrowed down to one but which breeders/kennels produced the best working dogs in history that still breed in Europe (or mainly Germany). My uncle recently purchased a puppy from Aritar Bastet and he is looking good. I prefer importing a puppy. 

I have found breeders/kennels like: Aritar Bastet, Vit Glisnik, and Salztalblick but I wanted to see what others are out there. Kraftwerk K9 has some amazing dogs but I tried researching where they get their dogs imported from and cannot find a kennel/breeder. If you guys have knowledge on that, please let me know. Thank you for your time.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I don’t know if I would say anyone is the best. It depends on what they want to produce and the type of dog you are looking for. I would recommend you find a broker in Europe to work with. A breeders I have seen dogs from I really like is Stribrneho Kamene.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I know of some older puppies available here if you are interested.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Vit would be my choice of the ones you have listed. Heidhof, Walshagen, von den Wolfen.


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Thank you for your reply so far guys. First time on this website and I love how it is already active. I will reply individually too. 

The breeders/kennels that you guys list, when I search them, many times they don't have websites or social media. how do you get in touch with breeders/kennels like that. 

For example, on Kraftwerk's website, they tell you the sire's name like Max Vom Haus Cismar or Xanto von der Prinzenbrucke and their parents but when you look them up, no kennel or social media pops up. 

How do you get in touch with breeders like that? Heidhof and the examples that Jax08 listed didn't pop up and I would rather get in touch with the original breeder than a breeder with a dog from a certain lineage.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

You can find heidhof on working-dog.com


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Not a clue. I know some of the kennel owners and know other people that know some of the kennel owners. So I would just use my own contacts if I wanted to import a puppy. Maybe you should be looking at working dog facebook page and making contacts instead of here. Go to clubs/events and make contacts there.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

There are many good kennels in Europe - in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Sweden....

Getting a good working prospect is more a matter of connections to the kennel than a kennel being "the best".....some breeders in Europe have stated that there is only 1 maybe 2 working prospects in a litter....but I have imported pups for friends who were great prospects and they were the "last pick" LOL LOL Some of the kennels cited, I would not want a puppy from, others I would...depends on your goals, your environment and who you have to help you.

Lee


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

wolfstraum said:


> There are many good kennels in Europe - in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Sweden....
> 
> Getting a good working prospect is more a matter of connections to the kennel than a kennel being "the best".....some breeders in Europe have stated that there is only 1 maybe 2 working prospects in a litter....but I have imported pups for friends who were great prospects and they were the "last pick" LOL LOL Some of the kennels cited, I would not want a puppy from, others I would...depends on your goals, your environment and who you have to help you.
> 
> Lee


Yeah, that makes sense but how can I get in contact with the kennels that you are referring about.


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> You can find heidhof on working-dog.com


This site actually has access to a lot of breeders and specific dogs. I am trying to get used to the site but thank you.


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## justde (Oct 4, 2000)

Don't discount breeders in this country. There are many very good litters here as well.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If I were to import a dog, I would look at the pedigree and not specific breeders. I would look at dogs like the O Heidhof litter, Bordy Blendy, etc. Research the litters and talk to the owners. I would go to clubs (as I previously suggested) and actually meet people and dogs to understand what I was looking at instead of asking online. I would then use those contacts (as both Lee and I noted to do) to ensure I got a puppy capable of doing what I wanted. Because European breeders are not going to ship their best puppies overseas to people who have no experience in the sport. And also consider that European breeders also do not have contracts. If that puppy has dysplasia or any other health issues...well...you bought it. 

That's just how I would go about it.


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

I would go to some clubs and watch dogs work and interact with a few to see what you like. You also have to look at your own personal dog training experience. We have a number of dogs in our club that would be poor choices for a novice handler. I think without a good agent acting to source for you there is a strong chance it won't go well. The are many excellent breedings here in the US. If this is your first schutzhund dog I would start locally. Also figure out who/where you will train. Many of the males I have seen need an owner on top of them from the beginning and that is much easier when you have help lined up.


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> If I were to import a dog, I would look at the pedigree and not specific breeders. I would look at dogs like the O Heidhof litter, Bordy Blendy, etc. Research the litters and talk to the owners. I would go to clubs (as I previously suggested) and actually meet people and dogs to understand what I was looking at instead of asking online. I would then use those contacts (as both Lee and I noted to do) to ensure I got a puppy capable of doing what I wanted. Because European breeders are not going to ship their best puppies overseas to people who have no experience in the sport. And also consider that European breeders also do not have contracts. If that puppy has dysplasia or any other health issues...well...you bought it.
> 
> That's just how I would go about it.


Yes, you know I have been looking at that working-dog website that you suggested and registered. Bordy Blendy was a dog that seems to be featured on their pretty heavily and has gone to many championships. I looked at the pedigree and it shows that the owner is Thomas Wöginger and the breeder is Jana Benešová. It also shows that the Sire is Jaro Ja-He and the Dam is Areta Ja-He which I tried looking up the Ja-He kennel and nothing popped up so Idk if they still are producing pups but maybe I can contact Jana. I have been looking at the pedigrees of these dogs on the Working-Dogs website. It is just when I need to find the kennel they are produced from or the owner/breeder info, it doesn't show up on google so maybe I can contact them on that website if their info is even given (sometimes it's not). Do you recommend doing that or is there another way of going about it?


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

justde said:


> Don't discount breeders in this country. There are many very good litters here as well.


Type in your recommendations. I am not discounting the dogs here but most of them import their puppies from Europe and then charge like crazy for the sake of having the pups titled "imports" when I can get directly from the source. Not being cocky but in all honesty, I do not really care about the price, but if these breeders in the states are importing their pups then why not get it from the source. Unless there are kennels here that have dogs from before that are great in the pedigree that you cannot find in Europe anymore. Hopefully, that makes sense. Plus, there is a cool factor of importing your pup lol. I have a stigma about US breeders because of the Dobermann and Rottweiler who most breeders here just completely ruined and it pisses me off so I gotta go to Europe for them but maybe the GSD is different. However, please list your recommendations if you do not mind and I will definitely check them out. Thank you for your reply.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

rrb009 said:


> Do you recommend doing that or is there another way of going about it?


LOL I already told you twice what I recommend you do. Others have suggested the same thing. There is only so many ways to say the same thing over and over.


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Jax08 said:


> LOL I already told you twice what I recommend you do. Others have suggested the same thing. There is only so many ways to say the same thing over and over.


Yeah, I just saw you can try and contact people on the site, see planned litters, and pedigrees are on the bottom. I was learning how to use it but I see. Thanks, I appreciate your help.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Have you used the search feature and typed in your state? …and skimmed thru that list of recommendations while also being active in your EU search.

Also, tbh, the cool factor of having an import can disappear very quickly depending on who is asking and their follow up question(s). I have family members with an import… they thought it’d be better to go straight to the source for their GSD that plays fetch with the grandkids. to each their own but i wasn’t impressed. when all was said and done, the total cost wasn’t so far off from the local breeder they had considered just prior…. yet they had no guarantees, breeder contact/support, etc. (they did use a broker btw)


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Fodder said:


> Have you used the search feature and typed in your state? …and skimmed thru that list of recommendations while also being active in your EU search.
> 
> Also, tbh, the cool factor of having an import can disappear very quickly depending on who is asking and their follow up question(s). I have family members with an import… they thought it’d be better to go straight to the source for their GSD that plays fetch with the grandkids. to each their own but i wasn’t impressed. when all was said and done, the total cost wasn’t so far off from the local breeder they had considered just prior…. yet they had no guarantees, breeder contact/support, etc. (they did use a broker btw)


If you are referring to working-dogs.com, then no, I have not yet. I am new to the site, thanks to Jax, I recently discovered it. Yeah, I agree. I am not against dogs from the U.S. However, in my experience there do not seem to be many real breeders in the States for Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans. I feel like I see many people breeding imported or titled dogs but not geared towards sports or protection. Many do so just to say it is an import (which I mentioned was a cool factor) because most, not all Americans, want a dog that is titled "imported" or "sports lineage" with no intention of competing, and the real people that want to do IGP or are already in it, for example, don't just buy these dogs from breeders like that. I am no IGP pro but I am trying to get involved in it now. I am new to IGP and sports/protection but not new to working dogs. I agree, not all imported dogs are great, and not all American kennels are inadequate but most Americans are not geared for what the Europeans deem sufficient in a sports/working dog. 

Also, you and I believe Jax, mentioned using a broker. How do you get in touch with them. Also through working-dogs.com?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

rrb009 said:


> If you are referring to working-dogs.com, then no, I have not yet. I am new to the site, thanks to Jax, I recently discovered it. Yeah, I agree. I am not against dogs from the U.S. However, in my experience there do not seem to be many real breeders in the States for Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans. I feel like I see many people breeding imported or titled dogs but not geared towards sports or protection. Many do so just to say it is an import (which I mentioned was a cool factor) because most, not all Americans, want a dog that is titled "imported" or "sports lineage" with no intention of competing, and the real people that want to do IGP or are already in it, for example, don't just buy these dogs from breeders like that. I am no IGP pro but I am trying to get involved in it now. I am new to IGP and sports/protection but not new to working dogs. I agree, not all imported dogs are great, and not all American kennels are inadequate but most Americans are not geared for what the Europeans deem sufficient in a sports/working dog.
> 
> Also, you and I believe Jax, mentioned using a broker. How do you get in touch with them. Also through working-dogs.com?


I’m not going to tell you you’re right or wrong or go into a discussion about American vs European bred dogs. I’ll just say that someone who holds the opinions you’ve stated on this subjects shouldn’t have to go a forum like this to find breeders. As for brokers, I would recommend you talk to Denis at venoom. He has sold a lot of dogs here with a lot of satisfied customers. He was an easy guy to talk to and deal with when I met him.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

rrb009 said:


> If you are referring to working-dogs.com, then no, I have not yet. I am new to the site, thanks to Jax, I recently discovered it. Yeah, I agree. I am not against dogs from the U.S. However, in my experience there do not seem to be many real breeders in the States for Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans. I feel like I see many people breeding imported or titled dogs but not geared towards sports or protection. Many do so just to say it is an import (which I mentioned was a cool factor) because most, not all Americans, want a dog that is titled "imported" or "sports lineage" with no intention of competing, and the real people that want to do IGP or are already in it, for example, don't just buy these dogs from breeders like that. I am no IGP pro but I am trying to get involved in it now. I am new to IGP and sports/protection but not new to working dogs. I agree, not all imported dogs are great, and not all American kennels are inadequate but most Americans are not geared for what the Europeans deem sufficient in a sports/working dog.
> 
> Also, you and I believe Jax, mentioned using a broker. How do you get in touch with them. Also through working-dogs.com?


no, i meant this site.
bar at the top, Search Community.
you refer to American breeders… but i’m wondering if you feel that way specifically about the breeders that are regularly recommended in your part of, America


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Bearshandler said:


> I’m not going to tell you you’re right or wrong or go into a discussion about American vs European bred dogs. I’ll just say that someone who holds the opinions you’ve stated on this subjects shouldn’t have to go a forum like this to find breeders. As for brokers, I would recommend you talk to Denis at venoom. He has sold a lot of dogs here with a lot of satisfied customers. He was an easy guy to talk to and deal with when I met him.


I really appreciate it, thank you.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

rrb009 said:


> If you are referring to working-dogs.com, then no, I have not yet. I am new to the site, thanks to Jax, I recently discovered it. Yeah, I agree. I am not against dogs from the U.S. However, in my experience there do not seem to be many real breeders in the States for Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans. I feel like I see many people breeding imported or titled dogs but not geared towards sports or protection. Many do so just to say it is an import (which I mentioned was a cool factor) because most, not all Americans, want a dog that is titled "imported" or "sports lineage" with no intention of competing, and the real people that want to do IGP or are already in it, for example, don't just buy these dogs from breeders like that. I am no IGP pro but I am trying to get involved in it now. I am new to IGP and sports/protection but not new to working dogs. I agree, not all imported dogs are great, and not all American kennels are inadequate but most Americans are not geared for what the Europeans deem sufficient in a sports/working dog.
> 
> Also, you and I believe Jax, mentioned using a broker. How do you get in touch with them. Also through working-dogs.com?


There are MANY breeders here who follow European bloodlines. There are many who have good contacts in Europe adn can get you a puppy and keep you from getting sent a less than adequate pup.

You do need to know what you are doing to train - you need to know who you are going to train with. Have seen it happen over and over to people that get basically shunned at a club because the trainer/club members breed and they would rather sell you a puppy to train with than have your money go elsewhere....have absolutely turned down buyers over the years for this very reason. There is alot of competition and jealously here over puppy sales....

There are a couple of very commercial breeders here who import bred females, sell the pups, rebreed the females to males here in the US (usually their own)....

As far as what is sufficient in working lines - frankly - I don't like where they have gone particularly - especially straight West German kennel lines......too much prey, not enough balance, and bringing in males with the wrong type of aggression.....JMO

Lee


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

I think you may have an incomplete outlook on American and even some Canadian working line breeders. The only American breeder you mentioned so far i.e. Kraftwerk is far more expensive than most, arguably better, North American working line breeders, most of whom work and title their own dogs rather than import already titled dogs. 

Nothing against importing, mind you. I'm just not sure your reasons for importing are solid.


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## rrb009 (Aug 23, 2021)

Yeah, I mean honestly guys I appreciate all of your inputs. You guys provided great help and advice. I do not have any solid reasoning against a breeder in the states because you cannot really give one if you do find a solid breeder pretty much anywhere in the world. A good dog is a good dog and most are from European lineages. I was just saying there are more in Europe than in the states and I know that to be true which makes your odds of landing a solid line dog higher. Granted, out of a litter, as someone mentioned before, there may be only one or even none that can compete or achieve greatness in the sport. However, I simply want to import a European puppy for my own subjective reasons and wanted to gain more insight on how to do so, who the top guys are, and where to start because I am not really experienced in this for the German Shepherd breed. Also, I am aware that there are various working lines like the Czech, DDR, WGWL, etc. so it made things all the more complicated which I am sorting out right now with the help of all of you. Thanks again.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

rrb009 said:


> I However, in my experience there do not seem to be many real breeders in the States for Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Dobermans.


I call BS. There are PLENTY of really good breeders of GSD's here in the United States. PLENTY. There is no "cool" factor to having imported a dog. There is a "cool" factor to taking an American bred working line to the WUSV and knowing we are now becoming as good as Germany. I mean - if you just want to think you're cool because you spent a ton of money on importing a dog wth the same quality that you could have gotten here then you do you. I don't know anything about the other breeds so won't speak to that. But this statement is absolutely untrue when it comes to German Shepherds...and annoying....and flat out insulting to all the good breeders out there. 

And...the quality of the dog doesn't matter if you aren't a good trainer as well. It's not all about the dog. 



rrb009 said:


> Also, you and I believe Jax, mentioned using a broker. How do you get in touch with them. Also through working-dogs.com?


Jax told you to get off the computer, go to clubs, meet dogs and make contacts. That's what Jax said twice. It's also what Lee said (who is a breeder of German Shepherds)


LIke....is this thread even for real? It's obvious you do not want to make any real effort past the keyboard.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Go meet dogs, watch them work, talk to owners and trainers about living with their dogs and training requirements. You start a search for a dog by defining your temperament desires and training goals. Right now you don't know what that means in the GSD world.

Everyone wants a good dog. What defines a good dog for you will be different than a good dog for me. If you were to get a hard, sharp dog with tons of drive and no off switch, you would be in for a steep learning curve and maybe a trip to the ER. This may be the perfect dog for a handler used to this kind of dog, and that kennels dogs while not working or training.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

All I hear about importing a pup is you get pink papers. You would think they were gold. 
many great breeders out there and work their butts off to breed quality GSD’s. 
I know someone who imported a pup that was recommended by a friend. Sight unseen no videos nothing except was told they kept the best one back, shipped the dog and is nervy as heck, reactive etc. I laugh when euro breeders say they have the best here you go to an American buyer. They never sell the best just get you to believe and pink papers in the mail. 
The owner says now she should have never brought him around people when he was a puppy, that’s why he is nervy. Owners are blind as well. Beautiful true black sable but horrible genetics with the wrong owner.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

@David Winners David, I just want to ask here since you mentioned it. What do you consider a “sharp” dog? “ Hard” I understand very well, but ppl call some dogs “sharp” and put different meaning into it, I am not really sure what this term means. Maybe, my dog is sharp and I just don’t know about it  This is for my and maybe others education including OP. Thank you!


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GSD07 said:


> @David Winners David, I just want to ask here since you mentioned it. What do you consider a “sharp” dog? “ Hard” I understand very well, but ppl call some dogs “sharp” and put different meaning into it, I am not really sure what this term means. Maybe, my dog is sharp and I just don’t know about it  This is for my and maybe others education including OP. Thank you!


A sharp dog is quick to react with low threshold, particularly likely to get physical. This can be from defense, fear, just being a jerk, lives to fight.

It's a dog that won't take any crap, and you have to work with them. It's not a problem if you are fair and consistent and have black and white rules for the dog. It's just challenging for a new handler. I wouldn't recommend a sharp dog in a pet situation.

Lots of working dogs fall into this category. I prefer a dog with higher thresholds. Much less of a liability and easier to take into any situation without constantly watching the dog and managing.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Thank you for clarifying it. Definitely would be a liability to have a sharp dog as a family pet.


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## Sableguy (Apr 22, 2021)

What are you looking for age? Male or female?
Are you looking to import


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Here's a video that explains temperament traits and dog selection.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Lee is a female. She has been breeding for 20 something years if I remember correctly. You could easily get a dog from her capable of doing schutzhund and personal protection. As far as using working dog, I’m the one that told you that. I’m also the one that tasks your probably better off using a broker. Ok also the one that named a broker that I’ve personally met to work with. If you’re going to import a dog, you at least need to understand what traits you are looking for.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Deteled several posts for offensive language and personal attacks. Closing thread.


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