# Is my pups spine normal



## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

My male GSD pup is 10 weeks old and seems to have a slight hump near his rear. I wasn't sure if this was the "awkward puppy stage" or a serious concern. He doesn't seem to be in pain when I push on it.


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

How does he maneuver around? Any noticeable discomfort?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

can you get a video up at some point .

is the spine normal. Oh Ryan I hate to tell you no it is not normal.

There are some problems with conformation which are going to impact the dog , put limits on his being free in his physicality.

Does he always plant his hind legs so far forward under neath him? Short stepper?

I think there is muscle tension in the back so he supports his weight by having the rear legs under .

If you were to gently cup your hand on his "knee" and with minimal pressure try to extend that back leg away from the center of the body , what would the dog do. 
While doing this watch the muscles along the spine . You may see them twitch.

Pup looks like he has some very attractive attitude . He deserves a long and happy and pain free life.

Hello and welcome !

let's see what we can do for the pooch.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

carmspack said:


> can you get a video up at some point .
> 
> is the spine normal. Oh Ryan I hate to tell you no it is not normal.
> 
> ...


Still a newbie at looking and understanding conformation. My first thought was this pup looks very straight in the rear. Very little angulation on the hock? 

Carmen, would that have been a correct assessment? 

OP. This pup looks super happy and confident. And very adorable! Understanding the temperamental and conformational limitations of our dogs can really help us give them the best possible life. It's awesome that you recognized a possible issue, because now you can the support to help your baby be his best! 

And TBH, you didn't post near enough pictures. I have puppy fever. So I demand pictures of cute puppies!!! Please help me not have to buy a puppy. I really don't have the room. Lol.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

who is the breeder?

I can't look at this pup without thinking spina bifida which is a defect at birth , possibly from a genetic influence, something lacking in the mother's diet at a critical time or a teratogenic cause (toxins , drugs , infections etc) once again 
at a critical time of fetal development.

Get an x ray done . 

contact the breeder --- 

you saw the rest of the litter? Were there any others like this. Do you have a picture of the sire and dam . 
Was the dog vetted when you picked the dog up.

This would have been visible all along birth to nursing . The pup probably would have been a side nurser instead of getting his hind feet under him , like a sphynx , to nurse while on his belly.
Ask the breeder .

Have I seen this before? 
Yes .
When a preventive drug was first introduced and I guess the margins for safety were not fine tuned .

Saw a few litters locally with gel blob or mummified pups being born , and spinal problems .

That is where I learned the word teratogenic.

get an x ray so that you can take the best care of your dog


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Looks like he lacks angulation in the rear legs and is high in the rear. It may or may not change a bit as he go through phases.


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## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

This pup was actually a singleton. I will try the technique you recommended. Ive noticed when he goes up and down stairs he moves very slowly. At first I thought it was a nervous thing, just getting use to the stairs. Now I've noticed he looks uncomfortable going up and down. I have an apt with the vet this week. 

Its very noticeable when you watch him walk around. I feel like when I got him a couple weeks ago this wasn't an issue (at least I didn't recognize it then). 

The breeder seemed concerned and consulted a friend who said it was typical. The litter before my pup (12 pups) has had no reported issues. I seen both the mother and father a few times and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. 

What's typically the diagnosis?


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Do you have pictures of the parents?


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## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

Here is what I have of the parents. The father is tan and black and mother silver and black. I've also included a picture of my dog at about 6 weeks


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## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

One pic didn't load


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

only honesty will get a result .
the mother has poor angulation -- not a dog that should have been used for breeding .

"The breeder seemed concerned and consulted a friend who said it was typical. "

That friend needs to know it is not typical. And if it is typical to them, then it is not normal and it is not desirable.
That breeder would have been better advised by consulting a vet . 

the hump in your dog's back is in the lumbar area . 
Conformation is not just aesthetics . The muscles in the rear will be short and constricted . 

I am not saying that what I am saying is the problem - just arming you with something for your vet to look in to .

Spina Bifida in Dogs | Symptoms and Signs 

there are some breeds which have a deliberate mild form of spina bifida . Rhodesian Ridgeback with the reverse direction of hair is actually a deformity . Ridgebacks without this are physically normal but are not sought after for breeding.


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## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

Thank you very much for the info. Taking my little buddy to the vet tomorrow


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## Julian G (Apr 4, 2016)

carmspack said:


> only honesty will get a result .
> the mother has poor angulation -- not a dog that should have been used for breeding .
> 
> "The breeder seemed concerned and consulted a friend who said it was typical. "
> ...


Carm, I'm going to post pics of some of chercar's dogs, they seem to have the same angulation of the bitch Ryan posted. Take a look let me know what you think.



















Now I know these arent german shepherds, but maybe you can chime in.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Ryan, take a look at El Rex's pics at the end of this thread, looks similar. 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/development-socialization/682769-12-weeks-back-arch-2.html


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Pup looks like it is built just like its mother.


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## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Ryan, take a look at El Rex's pics at the end of this thread, looks similar.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/development-socialization/682769-12-weeks-back-arch-2.html


Thank you


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## Ryan Jones (Feb 14, 2017)

carmspack said:


> only honesty will get a result .
> the mother has poor angulation -- not a dog that should have been used for breeding .
> 
> "The breeder seemed concerned and consulted a friend who said it was typical. "
> ...





Nigel said:


> Ryan, take a look at El Rex's pics at the end of this thread, looks similar.
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/development-socialization/682769-12-weeks-back-arch-2.html


 I took him to the vet today. They did a full physical exam and an x-ray. The vet said everything on the x-ray looked great. During the physical exam he showed no signs of pain. So relieved it's not something serious to his health. I've just got a lumpy German Shepherd, but that's OK by me. Thank you everyone for the information.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I know Cheryl Carlson through French Ring . She was one of the gypsy agitators in the Campagne trial that I entered . She was coming on as a friendly hag wanting to sell something out of her widker basket . You say no . She gets offensive , starts to attack - and then gun fire. She fired the gun at waist level -- the dog's ears must have been ringing - mine were . Deaf for a few moments.

I know the dogs she brought in for training. 

well that is good news Ryan -- the dog is still poorly constructed and you will have to accomodate the limitations.

video?


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Apologies for hijacking you thread, *Ryan*


But since my dog has the same problem I would also be very interested to know what kind of limitations I should take when exercising my boy. Our vet had also said that Rex is ok, I'm still doing his hips in a few months (he is 15 months now). He is playing fetch like crazy, loads off leash running, thinking starting agility soon. Is it something I should be excluding because of potential problems with his spine?


*carmspack*, can you please give your opinion?


Thanks a lot!


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