# Police K9 kennel insert- Dodge Charger/Magnum



## wildo

Has anyone purchased and installed a police K9 kennel insert into a Dodge Charger or Magnum, or does anyone know of anybody who has? Would they work well for day-to-day transport use? Is there enough room for the dog to lie down? What about front seat movement- does the unit restrict how far back the driver's seat can move backward?

I know they're awful expensive, but I'm still surprised to not see more of these units coming up in non-police situations. They aren't that much more expensive than aluminum kennels, and they're custom fit to the car/truck. Does anyone have any experience with them?

I'm talking about these:


----------



## Audie1

Well, the Charger is a family car of sorts, so this unit would basically void the backseat. I'm guessing that this has a lot to do with its non-proliferation


----------



## A_selders

*K9 cage*

PM sent


----------



## wildo

Audie1 said:


> Well, the Charger is a family car of sorts, so this unit would basically void the backseat. I'm guessing that this has a lot to do with its non-proliferation


Ha! Respectfully, I'd say not many family cars have 370HP and 395 ft-lbs of torque from the factory...  I'm not sure that the average soccer mom is the intended audience for the Charger or Magnum- though, certainly let me know if you find such a (single) lady...


----------



## robk

You know, I have never thought about it, but I do think it is a great idea Willy. It looks like there would be more than enough room for the dog to be very comfortable. I am sure however, you would be restricted in front seat movement. Are you looking to replace the Mazda? You had a pretty sweet set up in that thing.


----------



## NancyJ

In the time I have done search and rescue I have seen only one vehicle set up that way. The typical truck/SUV has the ground clearance and gearing suited to that kind of work. For overall untility, I don't think you can beat the truck option. 

In our area, I see more and more K9 vehicles on an SUV chassis than a car (though there are cars out there).

Downside of car is if you look, most police cars have heavy duty alternators and run the AC with the dog inside when the car is parked. There is only so much cooling you are going to get with the window class of a car and open windows. If you go that route, please park far away from the people with open windows. I get so mad to find hot exhaust from another vehicle blowing into my open truck...and spend the extra money for a good alarm system.


----------



## martemchik

There doesn't seem to be a secondary door on the unit, is that just the picture you have up? I personally don't like the idea of opening the door and my dog being right there and able to jump out. And like Nancy mentioned, you can leave doors/hatches open and the dog is still contained when it's warm out and you're at training all day..

I don't know many people that know they will be constantly transporting dogs, purchasing sedans (I know the magnum is a wagon but they don't make those anymore). Most people just go the SUV/minivan route and have a crate in the back. I believe you can get those for a little more than $1000. There are a lot of options out there that aren't just the heavy gauge aluminum because not all dogs are crazy in their crate and will destroy it so the crate is cheaper.

Most people also do still need to use their back seat once in a while...and so a unit like this, which seems pretty permanent...probably not the greatest option. If you were to just have a dedicated "dog car" this could work, but I don't think most people would be purchasing a sedan as their dedicated dog car...too impractical.


----------



## wildo

Yeah, this happened a while ago:


















I went years in the Mazda with no back seat, and so far I haven't missed it in the Magnum. i think you raise a good point about secondary doors, though with the police insert. The biggest thing is that I need to get two dogs in that area, and I'd really prefer them to be parallel with the car. I suppose I'll probably have to go the custom route again. Just seemed like the police insert could be a decent option.


----------



## NancyJ

Noticed your signage. Normally k9 means police service dog .... add a police style unit and aren't you concerned people may mistake you for the police? I assume they use the charger for patrol purposes since an insert is available for it.


----------



## wildo

No, I'm not too concerned about it, for a number of reasons: There are no Magnum police cars around here. To be arrested or even pulled over for "impersonating a police officer" you have to actually do that. If I had some kind of siren or light system- then things could get dicey. As it is, I did get pulled over the other day for speeding, and the state trooper didn't even mention the decal. I do have people reluctant to pass me when driving, but usually once they get even with me- they speed away. Lastly, a technicality, around here all the police decals say "K9" not "K-9"

Mostly, I just hate the wire crates and was looking at options. It's curious that more people don't use the police inserts.


----------



## martemchik

I guess the trunk on that thing is still too small for a vario kennel or a kennel from trans k9...good thing I went with the 5-series then!

It's just cheaper to buy a car that can do both than have to give up your back seat. Most dog people still need those once in a while and can't have something permanent like that back there. There are very few people out there that can go without a backseat in their only car for a whole year, even I had to use mine this weekend, which happens very rarely.


----------



## wildo

Probably true, martemchik.


----------



## DJEtzel

Would a double variocage be a better option? 

I don't worry about the backseat. I didn't need mine so I took them out for a custom insert, too. But a vario would probably help with multiple dogs and containment and is probably cheaper?




martemchik said:


> There are very few people out there that can go without a backseat in their only car for a whole year, even I had to use mine this weekend, which happens very rarely.


To be fair, I told you I could have ridden in a crate. All in the name of Chipotle. Hope you don't think I'm putting seats back in my car for you if you visit...


----------



## Liesje

Back when I had a normal mid-sized sedan and GSDs, I didn't like this option for two main reasons (other than cost): 1) like Max said I don't want to open my door and have the dog be right there, and 2) similarly, the windows and doors need to be usable for ventilation while the dog is still contained. When I've seen police cruisers with K9s in the back seat they are always running their vehicle nonstop. That's fine if you personally are not paying for all that gas, but as a "sport" person I'm often on a 2-4 day trip with my dog where we might be parked for competition or training for an 8-10 hour long day. If I have to bring crates along so the dogs don't pass out in the vehicle it defeats the purpose of a nice setup inside the vehicle.


----------



## Slamdunc

It is a very feasible option. I work with several guys that have Chargers that are equipped for their K-9's. If both of your dogs get along then you could easily fit two dogs in the cage insert. Yes, you may lose some room behind the front seats as the seats may not go back as far as before. Other than that it is a good idea. 

You can cool the car with solar powered fans, a ******* cooler and tinted windows. The cages are equipped with grates on the window so you can fully roll down the rear windows. I wouldn't leave my dog in the car on a hot day with out the engine running and AC on, but most cars don't burn that much gas idling. Add a transmission cooler and you are good to go. I also pop the hood on hot days when the engine is idling for long periods. 

The second doors are really not needed on the insert. I simply tell my dog to stay and he remains in the car while I put a leash on. I do this 20 times a day when working. It is obedience and training.


----------



## martemchik

That's a lot of expense and modification for something that is solved by a vario kennel or a custom aluminum crate. It also sounds like those types of modifications are a bit more permanent.


----------



## NancyJ

The vario cage is crash tested (those inserts are pretty beefy though...lots of stories about them creating a roll cage and saving the driver in roll over) and transferable to other cars. I would have them if I had an SUV -- or maybe in the truck but there were not as available here when I got my aluminum boxes. 

Leaving the car running? Propping hood can be dangerous at events. And then the whole everybody hating you for asphyxiating THEIR dogs with your exhaust.


----------



## wildo

Slamdunc said:


> It is a very feasible option. I work with several guys that have Chargers that are equipped for their K-9's. If both of your dogs get along then you could easily fit two dogs in the cage insert. Yes, you may lose some room behind the front seats as the seats may not go back as far as before. Other than that it is a good idea.
> 
> You can cool the car with solar powered fans, a ******* cooler and tinted windows. The cages are equipped with grates on the window so you can fully roll down the rear windows. I wouldn't leave my dog in the car on a hot day with out the engine running and AC on, but most cars don't burn that much gas idling. Add a transmission cooler and you are good to go. I also pop the hood on hot days when the engine is idling for long periods.
> 
> The second doors are really not needed on the insert. I simply tell my dog to stay and he remains in the car while I put a leash on. I do this 20 times a day when working. It is obedience and training.


Thank you for your perspective on this! Much appreciated!


----------



## wildo

The vario cages don't solve my problem because they don't have side doors.


----------



## Liesje

jocoyn said:


> Leaving the car running? Propping hood can be dangerous at events. And then the whole everybody hating you for asphyxiating THEIR dogs with your exhaust.


Yup, and I can't leave my vehicle running b/c my AC cuts in and out when the van is idling and it's above 80* out and humid. I absolutely do NOT trust that it is working to keep my dogs safe. If it's too hot with doors/windows shut without it, then it's just too hot and I need more shade or need to open things up better. I cannot rely on it and assume it is working and can't afford fancy temp alarms and such like a K9 vehicle.


----------



## martemchik

Why are side doors necessary?

Yeah, I think leaving your car running for the A/C is unnecessary wear and tear on a vehicle that isn't owned by the government lol. I also wouldn't leave my car running at the majority of AKC events or agility events because there are hundreds of people there and you're usually inside where you can't see your vehicle. At an IPO event, there are generally way less people and you can see your vehicle. I'd probably need to install an automatic starter or carry a second key so that I can lock my car while it's on. Just a lot of extra expense IMO just to keep animals at a decent temperature which is easily done by leaving windows and a tailgate open.

I guess I just can't see your regular citizen retrofitting their car with all the stuff that was listed just to carry their dogs to sport events.


----------



## wildo

martemchik said:


> Why are side doors necessary?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I just can't see your regular citizen retrofitting their car with all the stuff that was listed just to carry their dogs to sport events.


Because I want them. I guess I'm not your regular citizen.


----------



## martemchik

Sorry, your original post asked if anyone has done this. So I'm just looking at why someone would and how much it would cost. To me, everything is a cost/benefit analysis and no matter how badly I might "want" something, I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay thousands of dollars over a simpler solution in order to get it.

If you do go that route...I'd love to know the total cost of the project.


----------



## NancyJ

Wildo, why don't you talk with a K9 officer if you can find one that still uses that style of cage? I know many have gone to SUVs but they are still out there with the car inserts. I am sure one would be willing to "show it off" to you. 

Make sure you have a heavy duty alternator, adequate cooling radiator, and the alarm/pager system. Realize any of the above fail and check on the dog a lot anyway.


----------



## mycobraracr

A friend of mine has one in a malibu. He loves it. He puts his GSD and Mal in it together. They do just fine. On hot day's he finds shade, puts an easy-up over the car or uses aluminet (sp) over the rear glass.


----------



## wildo

martemchik said:


> Sorry, your original post asked if anyone has done this. So I'm just looking at why someone would and how much it would cost. To me, everything is a cost/benefit analysis and no matter how badly I might "want" something, I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay thousands of dollars over a simpler solution in order to get it.
> 
> If you do go that route...I'd love to know the total cost of the project.


I think you just like a good argument (not so unlike myself). I mean, really- _thousands_ of dollars over a simpler solution? An equivalent Vari-Cage is about $1200. It isn't custom fit to the car. It doesn't have side door access for rear car door entry. A comparatively sized kennel is too big (vertically speaking) to fit in a Magnum. 

You can get a police insert like I mentioned for about $1500, which is custom fit to the car and maximizes volume for the dog. It also allows rear door entry so that one could still haul gear or groceries in the hatch area of the car. It's a direct bolt in, so "modification" to the car is really a bit of a stretch. 

You're right- there is a cost/benefit analysis to be done. Vari-Cage is a ripoff comparably, other than the fact that it's transferable to another vehicle (if it fits).


----------



## Slamdunc

I actually built a K-9 insert for my Volvo station wagon and removed the back seat. I'm sure I have pictures of it somewhere. I had 3 GSD's at the time and travelled with them for work, training and competitions. When I gave the Volvo to a buddy it had 220,000 miles on it and still ran great. I have a Honda Odyssey Mini van now and travel with my dog. Leaving the car running and the AC on is not that big of a deal with a reliable car. I pop the hood which is very safe, you only need to open it a couple of inches on a 90+ day. It simply vents the heat form the engine. I use less than 2 - 3 gallons of gas ideating for a full day in my Honda Odyssey. Small price to pay, IMHO to keep my dogs comfortable and safe. I check on my dogs every 10 - 15 minutes and have cheap thermometers in the car. My Police car is equipped with all the bells and whistles, heat alarm with remote pager, fans that kick on and windows that open at 90 degrees. My new Police Interceptor SUV is a pig on gas and will burn a 1/4 tank, about 4 gallons idling for the day. Once I start my shift that car runs all day and is never turned off during my shift. We have patrol cars that are in our "pool" fleet that literally are driven and run almost 24 hours a day, similar to a NYC taxi cab. As one Officer comes on duty, he takes the car from the Officer on the Previous shift and this goes on and on. 

Running a car all day is really not a big deal, most newer cars burn very little gas idling and will not overheat if you pop the hood to vent it, even on 95 + degree days. I do this everyday. 

I also have a 10 x 10 EZ up tent with screen sides that I will set up over the car. I worry more about my dog being in a crate with the car open and getting out than I do with the car running. Or someone trying to pet him or open the crate. I have car vent locks so I can open the side doors about 8" and the trunk about 10" and lock them. That works great on cooler days, under 75 degrees. 

At events I park my car away from others as I don't like people walking dogs by my car, so I never worry about the exhaust being an issue. I suppose that is more of an AKC thing, those AKC folks can be so picky.


----------



## Liesje

I don't do AKC events anymore (don't do anything AKC other than registering my dogs), but many of the events I do each year have assigned parking/camping areas, or areas that teams have used over the years that are sort of assigned in an unspoken way. I would love the run the AC all day for my dogs (and have done it a few times a few years back) but my AC cuts in and out so it's dangerous for me to rely on that. I also have a van that is currently leaking/burning something under the hood (goes into the shop this evening actually) so it smells awful when idling. I think running AC is a good option for a newer vehicle that is in great condition, but many of ours aren't (newer or in great condition). Willy's probably is though!

I don't agree that custom crates or Variocage are always a better solution than the K9 insert though. Willy is right, those things are crazy expensive, and then often only fit that one vehicle so it's really no different than buying the insert for that particular vehicle. I used to drive a mid-sized sedan and always thought the inserts would be so handy. I ended up getting a heavy-duty seat cover thing and then making a grate blocking off the front of the car. My dog at the time was a lower drive (for a GSD), relaxed kind of dog so having her in the car not being crated or otherwise restrained wasn't an issue. Then when I had two GSDs (or my friend and I carpooled with our two intact male GSDs), I used the Precision Pet crate on the seat (the crate pops open an into place after being slid onto the backseat flat, no way an open GSD sized crate would ever fit through the side door!) so one dog was in the crate and the other sitting on the seat. Not ideal, but my only mode of transportation being that sedan (and no hatchback or rear exit, just a trunk), it worked for a few years of driving 2.5 hours to training 2-3 times a week.


----------



## martemchik

Cost wise I was talking more about the other modifications that were mentioned. I guess I don't get how a vario kennel can't be transferred into a different vehicle. They will fit into most SUVs and are much easier to transfer than a custom fit rear seat thing...considering most cars don't stay the same for more than 5 years...even if you go with the same make and model the thing probably won't fit. 

I'm actually of the camp that the smaller the space for my dog the better. So I would prefer tighter quarters and limited space. I'm thinking that if I get in an accident, the less room the dog has to fly until it hits a barrier, the better. Preferably, some body part is up against a barrier anyways and the dog doesn't have to fly at all.

I guess I also carry passengers often enough in my car that removing the whole back seat wouldn't work. I'd prefer to have that there and have the ability to quickly remove the kennel out of the back and then have cargo space. It's very rare that I need that much cargo space while my dogs are with me anyways. My thoughts are to keep the car as stock as possible to be able to have as many configurations as possible when things are needed. So if I have to carry dogs, or if I have to carry people, or if I need to go to the hardware store...it takes me about 5 minutes to covert the vehicle into any of those configurations.


----------



## wildo

Slamdunc said:


> I actually built a K-9 insert for my Volvo station wagon and removed the back seat. I'm sure I have pictures of it somewhere.


Sorry- I didn't see this update. I'd love to see pics! I decided to go ahead and move forward with a custom rear seat replacement solution. The steel is purchased, and so far the cost is laughable compared to the price of a varicage or police insert. However, like the last one I built, I'm sure I'll have countless hours invested by the time I'm done.


----------



## martemchik

Building your own? That changes everything. Love to see how it turns out...I need to get a welder lol.


----------



## wildo

martemchik said:


> Building your own? That changes everything. Love to see how it turns out...I need to get a welder lol.


Yes, that is the plan. Here's the basic design I've come up with:









And here's the steel:


----------



## NancyJ

Wildo, I would love to kidnap you and just keep you locked in my house doing "projects" for awhile. You are one handyman dude!


----------



## Slamdunc

wildo,
That is very cool. I know someone that is making an insert out of aluminum. Mine was no where near as nice but to was very functional. I mane it out of plywood and 2x4's. I used varikennel 700 doors for the kennels. I built this in 96 or 97 then added the rear seat insert in 99. I will dig up the pictures and post them.


----------



## mycobraracr

wildo said:


> Sorry- I didn't see this update. I'd love to see pics! I decided to go ahead and move forward with a custom rear seat replacement solution. The steel is purchased, and so far the cost is laughable compared to the price of a varicage or police insert. However, like the last one I built, I'm sure I'll have countless hours invested by the time I'm done.



Just curious, why not aluminum. I'm putting something together for my excursion to house four dogs plus gear. I'm looking at aluminum though mainly for weight reasons.


----------



## wildo

mycobraracr said:


> Just curious, why not aluminum. I'm putting something together for my excursion to house four dogs plus gear. I'm looking at aluminum though mainly for weight reasons.


Because I don't have a TIG welder, and those aluminum connector pieces are ridiculously expensive.


----------



## mycobraracr

wildo said:


> Because I don't have a TIG welder, and those aluminum connector pieces are ridiculously expensive.


Makes sense to me. I can't wait to see it done. Nice design.


----------



## wildo

Also- the 81 feet of steel I bought weighs 116.3 pounds. I suppose that's significant, but on the other hand, varicages are very heavy as well. I'll be adding weight, of course, since I'll have to make walls and floor, but overall- it shouldn't be much more than having an adult sitting in the rear seat.


----------



## mycobraracr

wildo said:


> Also- the 81 feet of steel I bought weighs 116.3 pounds. I suppose that's significant, but on the other hand, varicages are very heavy as well. I'll be adding weight, of course, since I'll have to make walls and floor, but overall- it shouldn't be much more than having an adult sitting in the rear seat.



What size/wall is it? 116 pounds isn't bad. I'm trying to do a modular type design. Where I can build frame rails and take them out of the excursion and turn it into a trailer if needed. I currently have zero more room in my excursion with four crates and all my bite gear. Front two seats are all that's left. I think I can free up some room with a custom build.


----------



## wildo

1" square tubing, 11ga. Wall thickness in 11ga is .120" 

The "take it out" ability is certainly a sacrifice, but I've wanted to buy a flatbed trailer for a while...


----------



## wildo

martemchik said:


> Building your own? That changes everything. Love to see how it turns out...I need to get a welder lol.


Hey martemchik... something like this? 



















...still a long way to go.


----------

