# Growling/barking at other dogs



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Anyone have advice on curbing this behavior? I really wanted Bianca to be a therapy dog but if she is going to act like this I don't know if it will happen...
I noticed on walks she will sometimes growl/bark at other dogs in the distance, across the street etc... However in most situations where she was near other dogs she was ok. She has growled or barked a few times at dogs who came up to her but most cases she didn't.
Today I took her to a training class, and she growled and snarled at the other dogs. First a Giant Schnauzer which was near us, she growled and snarled at him. After that she barked at him and another dog who was nearby. I took her away from the area and then during the rest of the class she growled at the Schnauzer again whenever he was somewhere nearby. She didn't growl at the other dogs the rest of the class but I tried to keep her attention on me... I am not sure what do about the behavior. If I want to do the CGC or TDI she has to be okay around other dogs...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

socialize, socialize and socialize.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Read Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt, it is great for your situation.
http://www.controlunleashed.net/
http://www.controlunleashed.net/book.html


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadsocialize, socialize and socialize.


Any tips on socializing? I don't have any friends whose dogs are dog-friendly. The only time Bianca sees other dogs is when we are on walks (usually at a distance) at a pet store or the vet's office. (Plus the class if we keep going. I used to take my dogs to a lot of dog events (shows, festivals, fairs, dog parties) but I don't know if that is a good idea if Bianca might react badly, most people at those events assume your dog will want to play with theirs.


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## Annemarie (Feb 12, 2007)

Chara had a problem with fear aggression. I found the best place to socialize!!

At our vet's office, we would just hang out in the parking lot for an hour or so and meet all the other dogs coming and going. 

At the start I just kept her at a distance and used treats to help her make a good association with other dogs, gradually we got closer and closer until she was able to greet other dogs comfortably.

Keep up the classes and use treats to help her associate other dogs with something yummy.

Good luck.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The only thing with vets is some of those dogs may be ill and I wouldn't want to expose my dogs to the ones that may be(the grounds, parking lot may be contaminated w/giardia, parvo, etc...that and some dogs are stressed going in, they remember the place, so they are already on guard, not in their normal frame of mind. I have one that I go to within walking distance and I do go there occasionally to weigh my dogs, but wouldn't want to hang out there. 
I would stick with a training facility and outdoor parks, now that the weather is milder. Just stay on the fringe til Bianca is more comfortable, and leaving when things are on a positive note.


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

If you can afford 20-30 dollars a week I would suggest daycare once a week. Dozer was having issues with other dogs and I bring him to daycare. He was afraid of them and would bark and growl. Now he can walk right past dogs without even looking at them. He could care less. It was well worth it for me, I actually bring him 2-3 times a week. He comes home REALLY tired and he loves going. I tell him time to go to school and he runs to the door. The dogs that are there are dog friendly because they are so used to be around dogs. The staff at our daycare is out with the dogs ALL day. They do not leave them unsupervised even for a minute.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I thought about daycare but I was not sure how she would act there.
One thing I just thought of as an option was hang out *near* the dog park but not actually go in? There is a dog park close to my house, I never took my dogs there because the dog park is a tiny area inside a regular park and the dog park is all concrete. It's only a little larger than my (city) backyard. However I was thinking I could walk her down to the park and stay outside the dog park area at a distance and work on her ignoring the other dogs?

The place we went to for training is having a "reactive dog" class starting in a few weeks but I wasn't sure if that was a good idea since she is ok in many cases-- if being around aggressive dogs might just make it more of a problem...


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## Jessica H (Mar 14, 2009)

I think being around aggressive dogs would make it much worse.
I know at my daycare when they have a dog that has issues they start off by putting he/she in a run that is next to the big area so the dog can interact with the dogs through a fence first and they watch like that. They work with the dogs and monitor them. They know a lot about dogs at the place I go to. They are the nations top breeders of Malamutes. They do not breed to sell though, just to replenish their sled team. So they are used to dealing with large dogs that work closely together. I trust their knowledge.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Absolutely get in on that class if it is based on the Control Unleashed book. I did the class with Onyx and it was very helpful. They do limit the amount of dogs, and most of course are reactive. Onyx was one of the better behaved, unless a dog stared her down or rushed her if the handler didn't have control, but we got thru it and she is a better dog for it. We were spaced out enough and brought our mat, calming the dog for the first ten minutes with massage, so the dogs were in a calm state of mind for the rest of the class. I recommend it for anyone just to bond if nothing else. I am a better handler, I can read her body language and remover her or distract her before she can act. It is all positive and fun.
My opinion on daycare is I want to be the one to get my dog thru this not the daycare people, they have enough on their hands dealing with the dogs that have no issues, I wouldn't want to bring my reactive dog there for them to fix....aggression is really not what I would call Biancas situation, I call it reactiveness. Big difference and it is up to the owner to manage it, not the daycare workers.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

too late to edit but I want to add a bit of info on the CU class:
They will put dogs in the x-pens to separated if needed & you are not crowded when there are only six dogs in the building. It is all positive and fun. And the trainer usually has a dog that is solid in temperament for just letting the reactive dogs be around a calm confident dog for exercises. It is clicker, treat(or toy) based. Stuff the dog is a lesson for one week. Each week is a new foundation exercise based on the book.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

That is part of the reason I took the class today-- for bonding. I've been wanting to take a class for a while but this was the first class I could make it to (it's drop-in.) 

This is what the website says about the reactive class:


> Quote: REACTIVE ROVER (Leash Reactivity)
> 
> Does your dog go berserk when they see another dog (or other distractions) when you’re out on a walk? Leash reactivity is a very common problem for dogs, even for those that are friendly with dogs or people when off the leash. This class incorporates positive reinforcement and play to help you and your dog to walk confidently and calmly past dogs and other distractions while on-leash. All dogs must be evaluated before enrolling in class. $100 for 5-week course (no dogs the first week).




This is the class I went to today:


> Quote:FUN-GILITY (Intro Agility / Basic Obedience Drop-in Class)
> 
> This drop-in class combines basic obedience with casual introductions to some agility obstacles (jumps, tunnels, contact trainer, weave poles, etc.) Great for building your dog’s confidence and helping them to stay calm & focused on a leash with distractions. Improve your dog’s manners, learn how to safely maneuver the obstacles, and have some fun under the supervision of trained instructors without the rigid rules of agility training for competition.


Except for the instances with the other dogs she did very well in the class today... When we started she seemed nervous of the obstacles and hesitant to attempt them. These were 'training' obstacles, very small/short not steep or full height/length. However as the class went on after we did several attempts using treats/praise she got more confident with each obstacle and by the end of the class she was completing the obstacles with no hesitation. We even got the tunnel to almost full length, when in the beginning she wouldn't even go through the tunnel being held very short with a treat lure. They had a very short training a-frame (maybe 2 feet long), a pause box, jumps, weave poles, and tunnel.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The fun-gility class will be a great confidence builder for her and the bonus of bonding more w/ you, she will focus on the work and not the other dogs after she sees how fun it is. I just finished a beginning agility class w/ Onyx and she still doesn't like small plush coated yappy dogs. (We have a sheltie next door that barks up a storm and is loose all the time) I only had to re-direct her 2 x's throughout the 6 week class. If Bianca acts like she is focusing on another dog tell her to "look at me" and treat her when she does, happily get the attention back to you. If your trainer decides it isn't working then try to go with the reactive class. I still don't think daycare will help, unless you find the type that dozer described, and I wouldn't want to take a chance on one just to have to get my dog stitched up or pay for another one to have vet care in case "something happened".


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## MoongazrNH04 (Feb 9, 2004)

I did the outside the dog park thing with Sam for the first week. (never had to do the dog park thing up north, so it was new to me also) The first time in, I just walked around...there was only a few dogs there...so it was ideal...and gave him a chance to get use to this new place. Over the next few weeks, we went on a regular basis. In the beginning, he'd spend about half the time, watching from under the picnic table...after 5 or 6 times though, he was out running around & playing with the rest of the dog'gers. Needless to say, at this point, when I say..."wanna go to the park" he's at the door in seconds. 
Do you have any other dog parks around you that are bigger? (and that have grass, lol?)


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Unfortunately the law on "dog friendly areas" (dog parks) in Chicago is they must have a hard surface. This means most of them have concrete or blacktop, ugh... 
However there is a dog park a few miles away which is larger than all the Chicago dog parks and has grass. The only problem is since it is in the suburbs, they have a high fee for non-residents of that suburb ($80 a year). The only "dog friendly area" in Chicago which is not concrete/blacktop is the off leash dog beach...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

We took a Difficult Dog class with Cassidy years ago that would be similar to the Reactive Rover class, and it was great! Even if Bianca isn't that bad, it will at least teach you skills to deal with it under those circumstances where she has a problem, AND you'll have one of the better dogs in class, which is ALWAYS better than having one of the worst, LOL! 

Usually that sort of class is designed to work the dogs under threshold using counter-conditioning and desensitization techniques, so I don't think you'll need to worry about it making her worse. We did much better in the DD class than in a regular class, no stress since all the dogs were reactive to some extent, (which helps the dogs relax since they feed on our stress) and they use barriers to separate the dogs as necessary to minimize reactive outbursts.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: AnnemarieChara had a problem with fear aggression. I found the best place to socialize!!
> 
> At our vet's office, we would just hang out in the parking lot for an hour or so and meet all the other dogs coming and going.
> 
> At the start I just kept her at a distance and used treats to help her make a good association with other dogs, gradually we got closer and closer until she was able to greet other dogs comfortably.


What an EXCELLENT idea! Thanks for shaing!


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: ChicagocanineThe only problem is since it is in the suburbs, they have a high fee for non-residents of that suburb ($80 a year). The only "dog friendly area" in Chicago which is not concrete/blacktop is the off leash dog beach...


$80 a year is $6.66 per month. I would definitely opt for that (if I were going) vs a hard surface where injuries would be more severe than on grass.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: ChicagocanineThe only problem is since it is in the suburbs, they have a high fee for non-residents of that suburb ($80 a year). The only "dog friendly area" in Chicago which is not concrete/blacktop is the off leash dog beach...
> ...


Oh no I never use the dog parks with a hard surface. However I don't think I am going to pay to get a membership for a dog park when I don't know if Bianca would be okay with the other dogs there or enjoy it... We'll stick with practicing outside the dog park and other places for now...and maybe the dog beach later.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm really disappointed. The reason I got Bianca is she was supposed to be good with other dogs (and people/cats) and trained. They said she had been to a lot of dog shows and was fine with other dogs.
I wanted a dog who was full grown and had obedience training so I could start taking them to dog events/festivals/places and start sports training right away. I also wanted to do animal-assisted therapy. Bianca's owner told me she was trained and good with other dogs. Now I can't even go to any dog events with her, or any festivals because there could be dogs there and in the agility class I had to be always watching out for where the other dogs were so they wouldn't come too close (I don't think she could go to an agility trial anyway because of all the other dogs around.) I might be able to train her to tolerate other dogs nearby but even then we probably won't be able to go to these events where there are a lot of dogs around and they assume all the dogs are friendly.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Another way to think of socializing is teaching your dog to ignore other dogs. With Indy, when she had that behaviour, I didn't try to teach her to be friendly or play with other dogs because that wasn't her personality. I taught her that when other dogs are there, it is none of her business and I will take care of the situation. I think that is much of what a reactive dog class does, though I really am not sure. 

Because Bianca hasn't learn where other, unknown, dogs fit into her world, doesn't mean that she can't learn. You need to take her to a bunch of those places that you mentioned (and I loved the idea of the vet parking lot), so she can learn to be non-chalant and to ignore other dogs. Lots of redirects, watch me's, proper rewarding etc. The Cautious Canine, a pamphlet by.....I dunno McConnell (can't remember, dogwise will have it), talks about the method if you are unfamiliar with it. If you take her to "fun" places, sometimes it's even easier to train, since being whereever they are, is more interesting and rewarding than barking at strange dogs.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: LisaTAnother way to think of socializing is teaching your dog to ignore other dogs. With Indy, when she had that behaviour, I didn't try to teach her to be friendly or play with other dogs because that wasn't her personality. I taught her that when other dogs are there, it is none of her business and I will take care of the situation. I think that is much of what a reactive dog class does, though I really am not sure.


That's pretty much what I do with Risa, who is also reactive. Though I would like her to have more doggy friends, we don't know any 'safe' dogs out here so we just play avoid the dogs wherever we go. Despite her reactivity, I was still able to bring her with me for one day of Clicker Expo. She didn't act reactive until the end of the day when she'd just had enough.

I would recommend the following books as I've found them extremely beneficial:
<u>Scaredy Dog</u> by Ali Brown
<u>Focus, Not Fear</u> by Ali Brown
<u>Fiesty Fido</u> by Patricia McConnell
<u>FIGHT</u> by Jean Donaldson
<u>Control Unleashed</u> by Leslie McDevitt

I also wanted a dog who I could take places with me without worry. But it didn't happen. There may be a time in the future where I won't have to worry about taking Risa with me. I know it's going to be a lot of work to get to that point. I'm willing to do it.

Best of luck to you with Bianca!


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