# Commands during playtime



## Rbarker63 (Nov 17, 2015)

Caleb understands all his commands and executes them very well. Introduce a ball to him however, all those commands are instantly ignored. It becomes a game a "keep away". Where should I go from here?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Start with the dog's anticipation of playing ball as a reward/tool for executing what you desire....keep away is no fun for a dog if nobody else plays. For me, I learned patience during this phase....and also to not ask/beg/plead the dog to capitulate.

Start small and teach the dog a release of the ball...the sooner the dog releases, the sooner the dog gets to have temporary possession of your ball.


SuperG


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

You have a second ball. Your dog only gets the second ball when he drops the first ball. Then you move to only rewarding with the first ball when he performs a command correctly. He is correct and you pay him. Play for a minute with both balls then get him back and start over. Show the dog the ball, let him get excited and then hold the ball high over his head, command "sit." If the dog knows the command he will sit quickly, then pay immediately. If he doesn't sit, wait him out and use a negative marker. It is pretty easy to get this worked out. 

Good luck


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Ball on string or rope is helpful. When you actually tug, interact with the dog instead of just chucking the ball for fetch, it will have the dog want to engage with you more. I never really just play fetch, but have tug be the goal. I tease the dog up after the out, or reward immediately for the out, but tug is always higher value than fetch. I tease, ask for a position, reward, tug, out, reward or throw, dog is engaged.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> Ball on string or rope is helpful. When you actually tug, interact with the dog instead of just chucking the ball for fetch, it will have the dog want to engage with you more. I never really just play fetch, but have tug be the goal. I tease the dog up after the out, or reward immediately for the out, but tug is always higher value than fetch. I tease, ask for a position, reward, tug, out, reward or throw, dog is engaged.


Exactly! Well said! The dog learns to work for the reward. Higher value rewards bring higher drive. Training in drive is fun and has a lot to offer.


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## Lesa2093 (Jan 9, 2016)

The Nero Ball seems to be a pretty popular tug ball. Here's a link to it on Amazon:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00R1QMZ7C?keywords=nero%20ball&qid=1452659600&ref_=sr_1_1&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-1[/ame]


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## Rbarker63 (Nov 17, 2015)

Thank you all for the great tips... Just ordered some Nero Balls so I'll be sure to update the thread with Calebs progress.


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## Suka (Apr 9, 2004)

The Nero balls are really hard, if they are the ones I'm thinking of, so I've always liked Planet Dog or Starmark balls and braid my own string with paracord. The paracord is easier on the hands too. Just another suggestion.


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## Rbarker63 (Nov 17, 2015)

2 Nero Balls and 2 days of training later, Caleb is a rockstar! Thanks for all the advise.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Good job! 

It is easy to train a dog that has high drive, if you teach him to work for his reward and contain himself. The issue that most people run into is teaching the dog how to earn the reward. They view the high drive behavior as being out of control and crazy. Once you harness that energy, teach the dog how to earn it's toy and work for it, the training progresses super well. Patience is the key. Once you get the desired behavior instantly pay with the toy. 

The two toy, or "two ball game" is the perfect way to teach a super fast recall and the out, simultaneously. Keep the training sessions short, max 10 minutes, but high energy. You must be high energy as well as the dog.


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## IronhorseRomo (Jul 20, 2015)

Great advice. My dog does the same thing. 


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Rbarker63 said:


> Caleb understands all his commands and executes them very well. Introduce a ball to him however, all those commands are instantly ignored. It becomes a game a "keep away". Where should I go from here?


For those that have a "possessive" dog or a dog that suddenly becomes deaf when he has his toy, then this two ball game works well. There are dogs that once they have their toy, will take off and self satisfy. If the toy is a ball on a rope or a kong on a rope or any favorite toy for that matter, the dog will work once to get the toy, ie a fast sit, then take off with the toy. Now, you have to get the dog back and with some dogs this is not easy. 

With a toy possessive dog or a even a low drive dog, you need to teach the dog "the game." Your praise has to be super high for the smallest effort initially. For a low drive dog, you praise the dog simply for picking up the toy. By praise I mean that you praise the dog like he just ran up to you with that winning powerball ticket in his mouth. How much would you praise your dog if he just brought you that winning billion dollar ticket? I'm very serious, think about it and then try it. 

You praise for the most simple behavior then get to tug of war and praise for that and keep building with the low drive dog. It takes time and patience. You are teaching the dog what you like, how to earn your praise and how to be correct. Your dog enjoys working and being with you, focus is increased and confidence and trust is built. It may take a month or more with the low drive dog, but any dog can learn to love this. You wind up with a dog that sees you as the center of the universe.

For the higher drive dogs like the OP has, it is the same principal. Except, you always have that second toy and praise and reward for the return or the recall. Initially, every time the dog returns with the first toy you pay with the second. The first toy is "dead" and you make the second toy come "alive." The dog will want the toy that you have, drop the first and come back to you for the second. 

It is when the dog drops the first toy that you say "out" and as the dog is running back to you you say "here." You say "out" as the dog is already opening his mouth to drop the toy and you say "here" as the dog is already running back to you. This pairs the commands with the behavior the dog is already doing and creates a strong association. Since the dog is already thinking about dropping the first ball, saying "out" at this moment pairs your command with that action, easily with no pressure and no force. Saying "here" as the dog is already running fast back to you pairs "here" with the behavior of racing back to you. The dog is already doing this and all you are doing is making training fun and creating a reliable, fast recall. 

I do not have "play time." My obedience training, in the dog's mind is "play time." I never go out and just play with my dogs, I always have a plan in mind and my dogs work for that toy. Dogs, being master manipulators give behaviors to get what they want. They think it's all play time, all my dogs think obedience is is play time. But, they earn their rewards and they want to.

One last thing, in the beginning stages have a long line on your dog, especially when out of your yard. Until the dog learns the game and you are the most exciting thing in his world.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

This is why I like having a ball on a string...the interaction of tug will have the dog pushing the toy into you for tug. Playing keep away is not nearly as much fun, and if you don't engage in the 'keep away' then there is no game.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

*This is why I like having a ball on a string...the interaction of tug will have the dog pushing the toy into you for tug. Playing keep away is not nearly as much fun, and if you don't engage in the 'keep away' then there is no game.*

Spot on. 

The ball on the rope is absolutely the way to go. Some folks will have to teach their dogs to play "tug." "Keep away" is counter productive and some dogs are "wired" to do this. I have one like this now and have owned a female like this in the past. High drive dogs that will be happy to take their toy and go off on their own. A slightly different approach is all that is needed.


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## IronhorseRomo (Jul 20, 2015)

Great write up! I think I'll order a couple of those today! Thanks. 


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