# Fight :(



## Kaasuti (Aug 8, 2012)

A Cairn Terrier mix attacked my pup today and they got in to a fight (if you got punched in the face you'd react back right?). I managed to get collar Charlie and had to kneel on the other dog because i wouldn't stop trying to get to Charlie, even though Charlie was trying to avoid the situation. The other dog then went to attack a fellow dog owners puppy.

Did i react in the right way??. I know i need to protect my dog.
​


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Where were you when the fight happened?


----------



## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

Where was the owner of the Cairn Terrier? How old is your pup? I would be keen for him to only meet friendly dogs from now on, especially if he is only a young pup. An attack from another dog at a young age could make him defensive with other dogs for life.


----------



## Kaasuti (Aug 8, 2012)

Lilie said:


> Where were you when the fight happened?



I was in my local park. My pup was playing with another puppy. The owner was quite far away from his dog, he wasn't even trying to call him back. Charlie is six months old now. Luckily the pups continued to play like nothing had happened afterwards.
​


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Were you at a dog park? Were any of the dogs leashed?

Try to paint a picture of what was happening before the fight started. It helps determine what would best help you in this situation.


----------



## Kaasuti (Aug 8, 2012)

Lilie said:


> Were you at a dog park? Were any of the dogs leashed?
> 
> Try to paint a picture of what was happening before the fight started. It helps determine what would best help you in this situation.



It wasn't a dog park, it's my local park. None of the dog were leashed no, 99% of the dogs in that park are amazing dogs. This one though, a little terror.
​


----------



## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

I would definitely have a word with the owner of the terrier, and ask them to keep their dog on a lead if he is not friendly to other dogs and has no recall.

Hope your pup is ok now.


----------



## 3dognite (May 28, 2003)

Questforfire said:


> Where was the owner of the Cairn Terrier? How old is your pup? I would be keen for him to only meet friendly dogs from now on, especially if he is only a young pup. *An attack from another dog at a young age could make him defensive with other dogs for life*.


I'd ditto this. My GSD had an altercation with a little toy-sized dog when he was young. To this day he's not only defensive with toy-sized dogs, but he actively hates them.



Questforfire said:


> I would definitely have a word with the owner of the terrier, and ask them to keep their dog on a lead if he is not friendly to other dogs and has no recall.
> 
> Hope your pup is ok now.


Ditto to this too!


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

A 6 month GSD and a Cairn terrier mix? You'll have trouble yelling at that owner for his dog "attacking" yours. Who punched who in the face? Cause I don't see a cairn terrier having much success trying to punch a GSD in the face...

A punch in the face is not outright "fighting words" to dogs but it is highly discouraged. We have a westie in the family and when my boy sees him he always wants to play. The westie is older, not as social, and ignores him. He used to growl at him and actually try to attack him but we taught him not to as that would surely lead to death without human intervention. My boy tended to punch that dog in the face when they were playing (when he was younger) and the terrier didn't like that, so we taught the GSD not to do that. In fact...most people at the dog parks I go to will not allow their dogs to "punch." They'll allow most types of wrestling...with jaws around necks but punching is kind of frowned upon.

All dogs were off-leash, if your dog had gotten away from you I bet you wouldn't have the greatest recall in the world either since its a 6 month old pup that would be playing with something else at the time. Jumping down other owner's throats for doing the same thing you are isn't very nice in my opinion. My rule with dog parks, or any park, is if you don't like what's going on, then you leave. You can't make another person leave a place they are just as entitled to use as you are.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Terrier are bred to route out vermin (fox, otter and weasel)...that's their job. It really isn't surprising that they are feisty and would attack a larger dog. They don't care about size. I don't know why anyone would be surprised that a smaller dog would start a fight with a larger dog, especially when they were bred to attack and kill animals larger than them.

I imagine the "punch in the face" comment was an analogy to the GSD puppy defending himself. I've used a similar comment to my husband when our dogs got into a fight and he was spouting about Jax eyeballing Sierra (who had attacked with no provocation). My response was "If you walked into a room and I sucker punched you in the head, you would be eyeballing me too"


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Wanted to add...

Dog fight threads are very interesting. The OP tells us their side of the story. Usually missing most of the details. Many of the really important details are also missed because in general people do not read dog body language that well and just blame the fight on who ever was the first to bite/growl/bark or the dog's owner who isn't on the forum to defend themselves.

I've once talked to a lady at a private dog park about her GSD (she got him from one of my club members). She said he was the sweetest dog ever, he never started fights, he was friendly to all dogs. All the while I'm watching her dog try to dominate mine. He dog was more than a year younger, but about 3 inches taller. The first thing he would do when he came over to my boy was try to put his chin on my dog's back. My boy, who is also sweet and playful, doesn't take very well to this (both intact males). So he'd react aggressively and scare her dog off. When I explained this to her, she was shocked that her sweet little 90 lb 9 month old would be doing such a thing. She had absolutely no idea that he was actually the instigator (my dog was being commanded to ignore him). If I hadn't explained this to her, and she hadn't actually witnessed it, she would've definitely thought I had the meanest GSD in the world and why is he randomly attacking her GSD who is just trying to play with him.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Kaasuti said:


> A Cairn Terrier mix attacked my pup today and they got in to a fight (if you got punched in the face you'd react back right?). I managed to get collar Charlie and had to kneel on the other dog because i wouldn't stop trying to get to Charlie, even though Charlie was trying to avoid the situation. The other dog then went to attack a fellow dog owners puppy.​
> 
> Did i react in the right way??. I know i need to protect my dog.​


Kaasuti - Remember, you can control your pup, but you can't control your pup's environment. Any time you are in a place where there are dogs running loose, you need to be vigilant about protecting you pup. If that means placing it on a long line so you can be there to protect him within miliseconds, then that is what you need to do. 

It is sad that folks don't control their dogs. But never assume that since Fido is running loose, that Fido is a well behaved dog.


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> A 6 month GSD and a Cairn terrier mix? You'll have trouble yelling at that owner for his dog "attacking" yours. Who punched who in the face? Cause I don't see a cairn terrier having much success trying to punch a GSD in the face...


I think that any dog, including a Cairn Terrier or a Chihuahua, for that matter, can be a potential problem for a GSD youngster. 

I have reactive dogs. Had the Cairn attacked mine, it could have ben a totally different deal. 

Glad the OP's pup went on to play unphased afterwards


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I agree with martemchik and these todays terriers aren't going to be killing anything larger than thay are.


6 month old gsd's can be lil tyrants to small dogs


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

pets4life said:


> ... these todays terriers aren't going to be killing anything larger than thay are.


Why do you say that? I've met a few well bred terriers that are still capable of doing what they were bred to do. That's like saying today's GSD's aren't going to catch any criminals or herd any sheep.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

martemchik said:


> Cause I don't see a cairn terrier having much success trying to punch a GSD in the face.


LOL, have you ever met a Cairn? Most of them are game to take on whatever comes their way.
Sheilah


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

sit said:


> LOL, have you ever met a Cairn? Most of them are game to take on whatever comes their way.
> Sheilah


Oh no, I don't doubt that a cairn could hurt a 6 month GSD. Like I said, we have a westie in the family and he only backs down from my GSD when the GSD is really really pissed and the westie can tell he's going to do something.

I just don't think its physically possible for a cairn to punch a GSD in the face...he could lunge and bite but not punch (unless the GSD is laying down).

I read it as the cairn came over to the group, might've played a little rough, and the GSD pup (like GSD pups tend to do) punched the cairn in the face, the cairn didn't take so lightly to it and decided to tell the 6 month old who's boss. In this situation...the GSD is at fault, if I'm reading it wrong then hopefully the OP can tell us exactly what happened.

I just hate blanket statements like 99% of dogs in that park are great, and this is the only one that is terrible. Its the only one that isn't trained, ect, ect. I've gone to dog parks all my life and 9/10 dogs aren't trained well enough (for my tastes) when it comes to recalls and call offs. I'll admit that my dog isn't aggressive but he does like to throw his weight around...I have to make sure he's not trying to show his dominance to the wrong dog because that dog might react and then my dog won't back down. I've seen my dog at least "try" to start plenty of fights.

When it comes to dogs and their language, it usually takes someone very knowledgeable and very attentive to see what is actually happening in a dog pack. And sadly, 99% of people that go to dog parks aren't those.


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

jax gsds can do that are still bred for it, no carn is ever going to be able to take on an otter or a badger if it trys it will die very quick by itself without the hunter.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Terriers are still bred to work also. Why would you think one breed was still bred to do it's original purpose and not others. That makes no sense.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

THIS is why I say don't take your dog to an uncontrolled environment where dogs are off leash and not under your control, it isn't fair to put your dog in that situation. Especially where there are big differences in the size of the loose dogs.

And to anyone doubting a Cairn could do damage to a GSD PUPPY... why? Because they're cute? They are terriers. I'd rather break up a fight between two GSDs than two Patterdales - terriers of about the same size. 









Tell me that is no threat to a bigger puppy? Terriers like these are bred to do damage to other animals, and not to back down despite injuries of fear. It WAS a real danger to your pup and I don't think you overreacted, I think you under reacted, I would have laid into the owner and made sure they took their dog out of there.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Kaasuti said:


> A Cairn Terrier mix attacked my pup today and they got in to a fight (if you got punched in the face you'd react back right?). I managed to get collar Charlie and had to kneel on the other dog because i wouldn't stop trying to get to Charlie, even though Charlie was trying to avoid the situation. The other dog then went to attack a fellow dog owners puppy.
> 
> Did i react in the right way??. I know i need to protect my dog.
> ​


Sounds like you handled it well imop. You took control of the situation and Charlie was able to return to play. Good job.


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

a pit bull can never do that by itself to a grown boar without the hunter they run in packs with vests (usually)on alone with no vest with a full grown adult boar they will be lunch in seconds. 


And a pit is not a big carn sorry not even close. None of these terriers can take on an adult healthy carnivore larger than they are. By themselves without a human ever.

Jax there is a massive difference in power between a small terrier and a same sized wild carnivore or bigger. Same goes for a small terrier and a larger dog. Small terriers get killed by owls, hawks. coyotes, fishers and just about anything here they are a prey food just like domestic cats maybe even more of a prey item because they can't really escape that easy.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

pets4life said:


> a pit bull can never do that by itself to a grown boar without the hunter they run in packs with vests (usually)on alone with no vest with a full grown adult boar they will be lunch in seconds.
> 
> 
> And a pit is not a big carn sorry not even close. None of these terriers can take on an adult healthy carnivore larger than they are. By themselves without a human ever.


What on earth are you talking about?


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

lol sorry i mixed up the breed wow they looked a lot like pits for a second. That is still no carn. If someone had a game working patt or jag terrier in a dog park sure id be concerned around a six month old pup but that has nothing to do with this thread. No one is going to bring such dogs into a park though.


----------



## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Some of them do have Pit Bull features, but they are small little terriers. 










I do know all about hog hunting.. Going off topic for a second, sorry - the dogs aren't expected to kill the hogs. Just to hold them and not let them get away, which takes a lot of courage and drive. Most terriers have a similar set of traits, which would make them pretty formidable to a puppy of any size - which is why I posted what I did. 

Terriers are rough little dogs when they want to be. I had to pick my old Pit Bull up to get her away from a JRT once. lol


----------



## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

I agree Pattys are fierce a whole nother level than jack russels or other small terriers. They are monsters lol Same with jag terrors.


----------



## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

It would be foolish to discount the ability for one dog to inflict serious harm to another dog due to size alone.


----------



## Kaasuti (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, I appreciate all your replies. I found a small graze under Charlies eye (looks like the terrier managed to graze with it's teeth), I've been keeping it clean and it's healing well.

I have seen the owner of the smaller dog since then and told him he should be keeping his dog leashed if he is not 100% certain that it won't go for other dogs. He was very apologetic, but stated that his dog doesn't like puppies!?.​


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

all terrier breeds are tough , scrappy, feisty dogs with high pain threshold - so they don't give up. I've seen jack russell terriers being used for vermin removal , nest of raccoons in barns and come aways with scratches and gashes and still never ran out of steam or game .
even in the show ring judges look for attitude from terriers , that is part of their breed character . 

So this was incident number one . At these leash free , dogs running free, most to all not having training, the second incident is just around the corner . Does your dog have training ? 
Not worth it .


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

all terrier breeds are tough , scrappy, feisty dogs with high pain threshold - so they don't give up. I've seen jack russell terriers being used for vermin removal , nest of raccoons in barns and come aways with scratches and gashes and still never ran out of steam or game .
even in the show ring judges look for attitude from terriers , that is part of their breed character . 
Patterdales - intimidating ! I had an American Rat Terrier for a short period of time .
Talk about instinct . Confronted by a large combative rat , the dog who was no more than 3 months old , knew exactly what to do , and could dodge the rats attacks, great co-ordination and she just kept at it till she had finished the job. The dog , not the rat . I had to re-home this dog after a year . Although she was a wiggle butt with ALL people - fantastic that way - her complete lack of any semblance of trainability , was wearing on my last nerve , plus I had to be extremely careful to be sure that she and my GSD's did not meet , when my guys were out running in the field . They wouldn't start something -- but the Rat Terrier would have . So she went to her new home . A mature adult couple with no kids --- and she is still alive at 17 years , joining them in their retirement in British Columbia , a little porky from being spoiled , but happy . Feisty .


----------



## Discoetheque (Nov 2, 2011)

I agree with those who are saying not to discount a dog based on size. For one, Cairn terriers are not a dog I would describe necessarily as "small" (short, maybe, but they're pretty broad, like a smaller-medium), particularly in comparison to a 6m Shepherd. We don't know how big either of the dogs are, either, compared to one another. Not to mention there is a difference between a bright-eyed, idealistic puppy and a seasoned veteran (again, we don't know how old the other dog is, either) Cairns are solid and heavy, tenacious and every single one I've ever met (and there is a fair number) has had an attitude, like terriers should. To say that dog was of no real threat because it's just a terrier and is smaller is dangerous thinking in and of itself that is of no real service to anyone, human or dog. 

I'm glad you were able to get Charlie and the other dog separated. Like others have said: make sure all his interactions from now on are with known, friendly dogs. Maximize his chances to grow up unscathed from this incident.


----------

