# NY Breeder suggestions



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Hi Everyone,

I am brand new to this forum and am very excited to be starting the process of looking for my new German Shepherd puppy. This will be my first shepherd - a dog I have wanted for years! I am looking for a friendly companion dog that I can train to become a certified therapy dog. I am a fairly active person - I hike about 45 minutes every day, so I would like a dog that can keep up with me on that front. On the other hand, I don't really want a dog with extremely high prey drive that needs hours of exercise every day. It wouldn't be fair to me or the dog! 

Do any of you know of breeders that produce nice healthy, stable, pet quality Sheps? I am in Westchester, NY but I am willing to drive a reasonable distance to visit breeders. Thank you in advance!


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Kirchenwald is in PA (Gayle Kirkwood). They have Gorbi. I know several Gorbi kids and they are beautiful, stable dogs. Not over the top anything, not a couch potato.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Thank you, I will contact them. 

Does anyone have any advice on what type of Shepherd I should look into? The difference in working/show and German/American can be a little confusing. I have heard some Shepherd owners say that if I am looking for a pet, I shouldn't look at any working German lines. Others have said that the working lines produce more stable temperaments and generally have less extreme rear-angulation that is more common on the American showlines.


----------



## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think most will say it all depends on the particular linage the pup comes from......i think you can get a nice working line as a family pet as long as you get a good breeder that knows what your looking for..............

as far as breeder recommendations......i'm staying out of this one.................LOL!


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

What type you should look into really depends on you. Are you more concerned with looks? Working line litters are less uniform than showline litters.

I totally agree with this statement:


> Quote: Others have said that the working lines produce more stable temperaments and generally have less extreme rear-angulation that is more common on the American showlines.


Also worth noting is that German Show line dog, these are less severely angulated than american showlines.

That said, I have 2 working line GSDs now. My 8 year old bitch is West German and my 19 month old male is East German (DDR). He has been a far easier pup than she ever was. He settles in the house, he's brave and patient (most of the time). He has plenty of drive and is so smart. He's of Grafental lines, there's a bit of discussion on those here:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1300198#Post1300198

My pup is not a sable - he looks like this


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

I would be lying if I said that looks weren't important to me, because they are. Part of what I love about the breed is their look. I have used this site loosely as a reference: http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

I don't know how accurate it is based on everyone's experience here, but using that, I would say I like the look of the West German Show Lines, the DDR Lines, and the "Old American" show line. That's just sort of what I picture in my mind of what I'd love my dog to look like. 

I've met two dogs recently that are worlds apart. One was from a Czech line. He was really nice looking and SMART - but he was smarter than his owner, for sure. I liked that about him - he had this intensely keen awareness in his expression, but you could tell that he was the type that did not settle easily - and that's what I DON'T want. I like a dog that loves to learn and exercise, but that will settle down in the house after a nice long walk. 

The next dog was from Landsend Kennels - this is the kennel that I plan on visiting in the spring. They are mostly American lines. I met a dog from that breeder that is absolutely fantastic - he's really nice looking and athletic. A great pet. However, you can tell that he doesn't have that sharpness that the other dog had. 

So I guess, in summary, I'd like a combination of both. I might be asking too much, though.


----------



## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: misschungThank you, I will contact them.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on what type of Shepherd I should look into? The difference in working/show and German/American can be a little confusing. I have heard some Shepherd owners say that if I am looking for a pet, I shouldn't look at any working German lines. Others have said that the working lines produce more stable temperaments and generally have less extreme rear-angulation that is more common on the American showlines.


For what you mentioned, I think either a working line or German show line would suit you fine, it's just a matter of finding a really good breeder who can get to know you and match you with the best dog for your lifestyle. I would put more effort into researching good breeders than picking a particular line.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

That link is fairly comprehensive. 

You're right american and czech lines are worlds apart. 

The question you need to ask yourself is do you really want that sharpness in your life?


----------



## Melgrj7 (Jul 5, 2009)

Debbie Zappia is in Honeoye falls (Olgameister kennel). I don't know if she has any litters coming up.


----------



## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

I would take a look at a couple of breeders both have working lines. Be sure to fully explain what you are looking for both are in New York state both are top quality breeders that breed maybe once or twice a year but you can be assured of a quality pup with a life time of support.

Take a look at Trish form Osthugelland GSD she is near Albany NY 
http://www.nyk9.net. She has mostly DDR lines that are used primarily for search and rescue. They won't give you that edge a Chech dog will but will be willing to work be very protctive and be a great family pet.

Next is my breeder Steve from http://www.haussimpkins.com. I can't rcommend him highly enough just the best breeder I have ever run across. He is on Long Island he primarly trains dogs for police and the airlines. If you look at his dogs you will say they are too aggresive. But you can trust Steve 100% if he doesn't have it he will find it for you and I mean exactly what you want.
He lives just over the throgs neck bridge so he could help you train your pup. He will go over everything with you soup to nuts and you will have a lifetime of support.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Thank you all for your replies. I'm going to look into these breeders that you've suggested.

As for the "sharpness" - I guess I just don't want a dog that's loafy. I like an active dog with a medium level energy. My mom has 2 Irish Terriers that we purchased without meeting the parents (the pups were shipped from Dublin) and the female is the type of dog that could work a 12 hour day if you needed her to. Our male, on the other hand, doesn't even like to go for long walks! So I'd like a dog that's in the middle of those two extremes. I can certainly handle a high energy dog, but I don't want to! 

Happy Holidays everyone!


----------



## lilysmom (Dec 27, 2000)

If I was looking for a West German Showline in the NY area I would look at this kennel

http://www.empirekennel.com/


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

The Grafental Lines seem to be exactly what I'm looking for. Now it's going to be a challenge finding those lines in a breeder in NY. The research never ends!


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Has anyone had any experience with German Shepherds of Dujon? http://www.germanshepherdsofdujon.com/


----------



## gagrady (Apr 27, 2009)

Have not had any experience but couple of things after a quick look - 
1. What is the price? Can't find it on the 'Pricing' page
2. There is little to no info about the breeders, their goals etc.
3. Assuming you are looking at the Dino/Yana litter - can't even see the DoB, how many litters they have had in the past; no OFA? no titles? 

Not too impressed personally.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Larry - I contacted Steve and he is sending me pictures and information about his current litter. The breeding is between Mya Von Wolfenfels and Conan Mlemetzcu Zamcu. This means nothing to me yet, but maybe some of you might know?

I also emailed the owner of Vom Kammer Shepherds in upstate NY. They have 4 litters available now - my mother thought that sounded like a little much. Should I be wary of this? Most breeders that I've encountered breed only once or twice a year, but I've really only contacted small breeders so this might be overly cautious on my end.

Kirchenwald seems to be run by a nice couple, too. Gorbi is stunning. I have to email them next.

Thank you all for your responses!


----------



## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

I would too recommend Kirchenwald!


----------



## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

misschung
I would ask Steve to explain the pedigree to you and what the temperment of the pups are going to be. Also tell him exactly what you are looking for.

I would stay away from a breeder that has 3 or 4 litters on the ground now my personal opinion.

Kirchenwald has West German show lines a big difference from working lines.

If you are interested in the Grafental lines I have a friend that got a pup form a breeder in New York state that breeds these lines. Her pup is 100% DDR from Graental lines. 
Her pup is now 8 months old is happy healthy and she loves her to death it was exactly what she wanted. She must be happy because this is the second pup that she has gotten from this breeder. I don't know the breeder.
If you PM me I'll give you her e-mail. I'll see if I can get her to post a response on this thread as she is a member of this forum.

But whatever pup you decide on I would contact Steve and get into one of his training classes.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

I am really okay with either a show line or working line. Maybe when I start meeting breeders I will narrow it down to one or the other, but for what I want, I think either would be fine. 

I explained what I was looking for to Steve, and I asked him what his goals were in this breeding. He hasn't gotten back to me yet. I would love to enroll in one of his training classes, but I'm wondering if they are a little too far away to do a weekly commute. I was looking at the Port Chester Training School - is anyone familiar with them? I have heard good things about them from fellow dog owners.


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

I got my Grafental girl in NY state from the same woman who paired me with Lucy, my heart dog.

Zuzu, now 8 months, is out of Missi vom Grafental, sire is Eldorado von Grafental.

She was very supportive to me when Lucy had cancer (age age 10) and after Lucy passed, and patient when I went back and forth between getting a pup or not. I think the world of her and have spent a number of afternoons at her place just hanging with the dogs.

I'll PM you her info, she does not have a website, she gets lots of repeat pup buyers. She's no-nonsense and knowledgeable.

Zuzu is a great companion dog for me, but does need a lot of exercise and stimulation. We romp every day, in the woods or beach, and she's developing her drives now and I have to set boundaries for her. 

She's wonderful and calm when she's had her exercise, and soft enough for me to handle, but clearly has drives and a need to have things to do. She challenges me just enough so as to make sure I don't let her get away with anything! I get lots of compliments on her great, friendly personality, with dogs and people. Very solid pup, though she's getting barky in the car when she wants to chase the other cars!

Sarah is the breeder's name, I'll PM you her info.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I'll be the character witness for Jennifer's Zuzu. They came to a meetup last fast. Zuzu was charming, outgoing, gracious and the life of the party. She was surrounded by humans (adults and kids), a big pack of other dogs, most of whom she did not know, some are cranky dogs, others excitable, others were service dogs. It was a lot for a pup her age, she shined. Great great pup. (yes I'm biased, she's my Otto's distant cousin)


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Thank you, Jennifer. Zuzu sounds exactly like my Fiona, the Irish Terrier. She flew in to us from Dublin, so we had no idea what we were getting. She's wonderful and challenging, but I think more faint of heart owners probably would have given up on her by now. 

Cape Cod is a little far from us, but we might be able to go over a long weekend, or something. 

I have another question for all you Shep owners - how much do you exercise your dogs? I find the different responses to this question funny. Some owners say they are good with 20 minutes a day - others say 4 hours. Now I know that it depends entirely on the individual dog, but I'd just like your thoughts!


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Jenn! THank you for the rave on Zuzu! I have to say that in the brief time I met Otto, I fell for him bigtime!

Misschung---Zuzu is from NY State, Petersburg, NY, about 45 east of Albany. She's really an easy puppy, very responsive sweet, goofy and stable. She's a very loyal little buddy and a pleasure to be with! She is not that challenging, just smart and I have been lazy about her training. Still, she's very, very good and after reading or hearing about aggression, weak nerves, fear and dominant dogs, I know how lucky I am to have such an easy girl. Her siblings--grafental dogs, went to pet homes and also to the NY State Police. There are some who think that the Grafental dogs are too "Soft" for work, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on that, and I dont want a hard dog, I want a handler-friendly dog, which is exactly what I have. Two trainers have met her and were liked her easy personality and trianability, but she also has a smart, indendent streak which keeps her interesting.

There is so much variation from dog to dog--the easiest dog I've ever had is my West German working lines boy--Aik. He is solid as a rock, has an enormous sense of responsibility and wants to do everything right. It's like living with and Eagle Scout. He's perfect. BUt...poor guy has no sense of humor. None. He's very serious and can't goof around at all.

The east german dogs I've had or fostered have all had a "goofball: element to them that makes them a lot of fun.

Also know that the east german and Czech dogs are known to mature slowly--emotionally and physically. I see this in Zuzu, who at 8 months, is still a wiggly, silly puppy, but with the good manners (mostly) of a maturing dog. They stay puppylike for a couple of years, methinks this contributes to the goofball factor.

Also, each pup in each litter is different. I spent 2 hours with the pups before picking her. She was friendly, smiley, and was very happy laying on my lap for a belly rub. She wasn't shy or submissive, just calm and willing. Some of the puppies were pushier, more active, etc. This isn't a totally accurate meaure of the adult dog to be, but it can help. 

Excercise-wise--- I have the luxury of having no kids and access to places where my dogs can run off-leash, either with or without other dogs.

We go off-leash nearly every day, 30 minutes minimum of being able to run, hike or swim freely. Or we go to the hiking trails where we know other dogs go--playing with other pups and dogs is a huge part of socializing your pup and is great for wearing them out!

Of course, with pups, you need shorter exercise times until they are grow and gain stamina. 

I know not everyone can or wants to romp off leash, but I think it helps the dogs well....be dogs. They run, chase butterflies, roll around, sniff and sniff...that it what makes them happy and content, not sitting in the yard all day.

At home, we go out and play soccer, catch, or just chase each other around, a bit in the morning, and after dinner. I work a 9 hour day but can come home for lunch to take them out someplace.

Sounds like you are active and will like a weekend canine activity partner---hiking with a dog is great and they will bond with you on your adventures. I like to make weekend outings with and for the dogs a priority, but again, I have the time, not everyone does.

GSDs like mental stimulation, games, tracking, hide and seek, etc as they are SMART and need to exercise their minds.

This may sound overwhelming--it's not. AT least not after age 4 months or so, the first few months of having a pup can be exhuasting because they are either on or off and get the zoomies where they just go nutty. And GSD's are mouthy in that they like to put their teeth on you a LOT when young and need to learn boundaries about that.

I think a hike a day plus some ball-playing or doggie playdates and games would be great for your dog. A tired dog is a content dog and VERY good in the house. Yes, some dogs are less active, but I think that if most young healthy gsd's had the opportunity to hike and run each day for an hour, they would love it, it's just not practical for everyone.

Keep us posted! Puppy-hunting is exciting, confusing, fun.....


----------



## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: misschungThank you, Jennifer. Zuzu sounds exactly like my Fiona, the Irish Terrier. She flew in to us from Dublin, so we had no idea what we were getting. She's wonderful and challenging, but I think more faint of heart owners probably would have given up on her by now.
> 
> Cape Cod is a little far from us, but we might be able to go over a long weekend, or something.
> 
> I have another question for all you Shep owners - how much do you exercise your dogs? I find the different responses to this question funny. Some owners say they are good with 20 minutes a day - others say 4 hours. Now I know that it depends entirely on the individual dog, but I'd just like your thoughts!


Our medium energy 10 year old GSD has gotten 2 hours of walks/ballplay/dogplay his whole life. Since we got the new puppy (15 weeks old) he now gets 3-5 hours of walks/ballplay/puppy play every day. He has lost 8 pounds! Both dogs have no behavior issues and are very calm in the house,though the pup was quite unruly when he first came home. Eventually we'll cut this back to 2 1 hour walks a day from 3 and see how the pup responds.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDIt's like living with and Eagle Scout. He's perfect. BUt...poor guy has no sense of humor. None. He's very serious and can't goof around at all.
> 
> The east german dogs I've had or fostered have all had a "goofball: element to them that makes them a lot of fun.


I'm glad someone finally mentioned this, because my mom has been telling me that most German Shepherds are not. funny. However - the Czech dog that we met last week did not fit this description at all. He has a real sense of humor, you can tell. That's also important to me. After having 2 Irish Terriers, I don't want a dog that's not fun. I don't mind a challenge, but I really don't want a "hard" dog, because this is my first Shep. 

thank you for your input. I'm like you - I have no kids and access to really great hiking trails. Sometimes people are nasty about off-leash dogs, but I generally walk at a time when most dog people use the trails.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

My east german boys were both characters. Luther was often called 'The funniest dog I've ever met' Not that he was Jay Leno, he just did things that were outrageously funny and he loved to make people laugh. You could actually see him smile when someone laughed and said his name.

Otto also has a great sense of humor and likes to make me laugh.

My west german working line female, nope, she'd make good company for Eagle Scout Aik. Very serious dog.


----------



## torizmojo (Apr 26, 2009)

Jennifer, would you mind PMing me your breeders info as well? We're still on the look out for our next GSD pup and I've liked what I've seen of the Grafental lines, but would like someone a little closer to us. Thanks!


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh Lordy Jen, Morgan would make Aik shiver his timbers, one look from her and he'd be handing over his bones. Her expressions are the canine equivilent of a PMS woman with her hands on her hips, tapping her foot. 

Moni, I'll send you a PM, Sarah is right over the border from the Williamstown area of Berkshire county, waayyy in the boonies. Cathy, ugh, can't think of last name, of Von Barren Berg/miles river kennel in the Cape Ann area also has some Grafental dogs I believe. She seems to aim for the east german look in dog with pet temperaments. Her breeding stock is not titled but she gets them their therapy dog and canine good citizen certifications. Cathy Seale! That's who it is. I met some of her girls, real sweethearts.

I do think the world of Sarah though, she always has some nice dogs coming up and she's not a hard sell at all. You get a microchipped pup, health guarantee, papers......she's worked her dogs in search and rescue and has some characters up at her place!


----------



## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh...german shepherds are HILARIOUS!! Just look at the pictures section! They are smart and silly and creative. Very expressive dogs.

Aik my eagle scout is not the least bit hard. He's a big sweetie pie, calm and reliable as the sunrise. Very kind and gentle. He just has no idea how to let his hair down. My dear departed Lucy finally got him to loosen up sometime and play with her, and Zuzu does her best to tease him, but overall, he's always looks like he's got a lot on his mind.....


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferDOh Lordy Jen, Morgan would make Aik shiver his timbers, one look from her and he'd be handing over his bones. Her expressions are the canine equivilent of a PMS woman with her hands on her hips, tapping her foot.


LOL, yep she's all business and has been called our lady of eternal PMS. Then she'd give him back his bones, kiss him and curl up with him for a good chew. We'd have trouble if they found any rocks though!


----------



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

You can always call Cathy at Nordosten kennel
http://www.nordostenkennel.com

thats where I got my Brady








we are in touch all the time she is Awesome


----------



## rokanhaus (Mar 20, 2006)

Brady is indeed very handsome!!


----------



## irudik (Jul 6, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Melgrj7Debbie Zappia is in Honeoye falls (Olgameister kennel). I don't know if she has any litters coming up.


I have a pup who's sire is Olgameister's Cito and he is fantastic.


----------



## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Beautiful dog,looks like a bear!


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Going by their websites and dogs, I think Olgameister and Kirchenwald are my two top choices right now. Of course, things could change. 

In the meantime, here are the two Irish Terriers - Patrick and Fiona:


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Ilike them...think I might get a newf...someday


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Here's a breeder you might want to check out. I dont know where in westchester you live, but she's in harrison, ny so she's definitely someone you should consider taking a look at. She couldn't be too far from you.

I don't know gale personally, but i've met people who own some of her dogs and they always had good things to say about her and her dogs. 

http://germanshepherdpuppies.us/


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

Thanks. I met one of her dogs at the dog show in Tarrytown last year. I can't really get a sense of her breeding through her webpage, but I will give her a call - thanks.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Please let me know how that goes when you talk to her. In about a year or so im probably going to start looking for a brother for Lucy and she's definitely going to be one of the breeders i consider. She's literally a 10 minute drive from where i live, so i'd definitely like to know more about her breeding.


----------



## misschung (Dec 23, 2009)

**update**

Hello again everyone,

So, I've decided to (hopefully) go with Kirchenwald Shepherds. I've contacted Gayle who has informed me that she is having an upcoming litter between one of her males and a female from Alta-Tolhaus (which is the other breeder I was considering). This is what she told me about the litter:

The litter is between VA-Zeke v. Kirchenwald, SchH 3 and SG-1 (V rating certain when she is old enough) Alta-Tollhaus Fenja, SchH 1. Fenja is young, just turning 2 years, and this is her first litter. Fenja's father is VA-Gorbi Kirchenwald. Her mother line comes from the German Kirschental (translates as "Cherry Valley") herding bloodlines. VA-Zeke stems my VA-Janka Kirchenwald. All of that is a long way of saying (in "Breeder-speak"), that, based on long and deep experience with these particular bloodlines, I am quite confident that the litter, in general, would meet all of your expectations.

Fenja was bred last weekend. If all goes well, her pups will be born in about 7 weeks. 

Can any experts let me know if you have knowledge of either of these parents? All in all it sounds like a good plan, but I'm trying not to get too excited yet


----------

