# New to GSDs, looking for pup/breeder in Florida



## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Hey everyone,

I've been doing alot of reading lately and trying to understanding just about everything about getting the right dog for us. Just until recently, I had no idea about breeding/bloodlines or anything similar. I thought, you try to get a purebred breed and you're done. Come to find out it's not that simple. 

My wife and I are looking for a GSD that will go along well with my family. I prefer a working line (I want to do protection/obedience training with enough experience). Wife doesn't care. She just wants a beautiful GSD that will protect her when she goes on her runs, or walks with the kids...

Current situation - 

2 kids, one 2 and one 3. Both curious about animals. They play with the cats and my parent's dog (sometimes rough until I catch them and correct it)
2 cats in the household. One isn't around much, and other is like a very chill dog. lol
fenced in small yard in the back (2,500 sq ft 2 story house)

What I'm looking for out of the GSD

Well tempered with kids and cats
Medium drive/activity. I want to do protection work (barking/defending owners), and I won't be able to run the dog every single day, so can't have an overly hyper dog.
Good family pet/loyal
Able to train obedience and protection for my family
Want a local breeder in FL so we can see them and make the best choice in person
Price... This is the tough one. I see some pups go for 3K+... I can't swing that. over $1500 would be really pushing it
Not in the biggest rush, but probably within 30 days or so, we'd like to bring one home

If there are any other questions, please feel free to ask to help me narrow down what we're looking for and where to find one. I've done some research and found few breeders from here. Just no wording on price yet as I just sent our inquires via facebook, or phone calls tomorrow. 

I found some breeders from AKC marketplace, and that's when I started realizing about breed types etc. There was a very nice lady who has been breeding for a very long time and has some american showline breeds for ~$1200... I was ready to get one until I realized it might not be exactly what I'm looking for since american show lines don't do protection well and prone to hip problems in the future (correct me if I'm wrong, because her prices were very good with champion bloodline lol)

The most important thing to me is the safety of my family from aggression of dog standpoint. I can't afford to get my kid's hand bit off (or worse, face or some other limb lol) because dog fears kids or something like that. I will be there to train both the dog and the kids (however I think it will be easier to train the dog lol)


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

These older threads have some suggestions:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/697601-looking-florida-breeders.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-looking-breeder-recommendations-florida.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/324361-black-red-breeder-florida.html


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Are you 100% sure you want a GSD? I ask because your description of priorities may lend itself more appropriately to other breeds. GSDs are bred to have aggression. If you're primary concern is a dog that's going to be good with kids and cats, get a lab, or a golden retriever. I'm not saying for one second that a GSD can't be great with both. But, if you can't give your new dog daily exercise....get a gerbil, or a goldfish. 

Seriously, most people who end up with GSDs that are aggressive toward them or their kids are people who don't invest the requisite time and effort into their pup. They think the puppy should just come prewired...doesn't happen that way. It takes time and effort. So be honest with yourself, and make sure you're committed to spending your next 8 months to your puppy...otherwise, look for goldfish or gerbils.

Not to pick on you more, but you should spend more than 30 days just looking at the various types of GSDs that are available (with your wife), it's a HUGE spectrum. See them all, talk to people, watch their dogs, find one that really fit and feels right...it's well worth the wait!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Just want to clear up a misconception. American showlines are not anymore prone to hip problems than the other lines. Angulation has nothing to do with hips.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

dogfaeries said:


> Just want to clear up a misconception. American showlines are not anymore prone to hip problems than the other lines. Angulation has nothing to do with hips.


100% true.

OP, some of your wishlist may be a little unrealistic, including your time frame. The best breeders don't have puppies available all the time and have waiting lists when they do. It is worth waiting for a great breeder if need be.

You say you can't run the dog every day. What CAN you and your family do every day because of daily exercise and mental stimulation isn't possible, I would say a GSD may not be right for you.

Your price limit may be unrealistic to get a dog from a better breeder. 

Read the threads on here about land shark puppies. Are you and your wife prepares to deal with that and a toddler together?

I wish someone else would chime in on the protection training...but... a dog can be taught to bark on command as a trick and it looks impressive without having to deal with actual protection training which I think is not something you really want to do if you knew what it entails, costs, and the type of dog that would be good at it.

Many shepherds will bark if something threatening or unusual is going on or if a stranger comes around. I have never had to train one to do that. There are threads on whether your dog would actually protect you or not...i think the consensus is most would not, as it has to be the right kind of dog to begin with and then taught how to get in the fight.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Whether or not a dog is prone to hip or other health problems is going to be related to how much health screening the breeder does. Look for OF A or pennhip ratings on parents if they are American dogs

You might not want an American showline to be a real personal protection dog but OP I think you need to learn more about that because I doubt you really want a personal protection dog.

GSDs often have high prey drive. Have you had dogs before? Read on here about what it can be like with a puppy and small kids and a GSD and cats.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I’ve been meaning to comment on “responsible breeder” prices for some time now. The vast majority of dogs here on the forum, that are purchased from responsible breeders, are working line or German show line, and I can’t speak to their prices. But in the American show line world, you absolutely can get a good dog for $1200 - $1500. All day long. That’s pretty much the going price among my dog show friends. Now I’m sure if you were to snag one of Rumor’s puppies from Kent, you’re going to pay more than that, lol. So repeatedly telling new people that you can’t get a good dog for that price is false.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

tim_s_adams said:


> Are you 100% sure you want a GSD? I ask because your description of priorities may lend itself more appropriately to other breeds. GSDs are bred to have aggression. If you're primary concern is a dog that's going to be good with kids and cats, get a lab, or a golden retriever. I'm not saying for one second that a GSD can't be great with both. But, if you can't give your new dog daily exercise....get a gerbil, or a goldfish.
> 
> Seriously, most people who end up with GSDs that are aggressive toward them or their kids are people who don't invest the requisite time and effort into their pup. They think the puppy should just come prewired...doesn't happen that way. It takes time and effort. So be honest with yourself, and make sure you're committed to spending your next 8 months to your puppy...otherwise, look for goldfish or gerbils.
> 
> Not to pick on you more, but you should spend more than 30 days just looking at the various types of GSDs that are available (with your wife), it's a HUGE spectrum. See them all, talk to people, watch their dogs, find one that really fit and feels right...it's well worth the wait!


Yes this is the dog we want. I don't want a golden retriever or a lab. I wrote a much longer response to you, but I'm not going to reply because I respect other member's opinions.

I've done much more research (and still continuing) than many people who just go get one of these dogs and have absolutely no idea how to properly raise it. I also don't believe these dogs are were bred to be aggressive towards kids or aother animals and they can be trained. I do understand one may differ from one another, and that's what I was asking here.

Thank you for your kind input.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

dogfaeries said:


> Just want to clear up a misconception. American showlines are not anymore prone to hip problems than the other lines. Angulation has nothing to do with hips.


Gotcha. It was something I heard and made sense to me.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> 100% true.
> 
> OP, some of your wishlist may be a little unrealistic, including your time frame. The best breeders don't have puppies available all the time and have waiting lists when they do. It is worth waiting for a great breeder if need be.
> 
> ...


I understand... I know I can't get everything from my wishlist. I guess that's why it's a wishlist and not a needlist 

When I posted this thread, I had less knowledge. I research alot and fairly quick. I've learned more since I posted and realized that a puppy can be trained well to work with other animals and kids and training/teaching is key.

Unfortunetly that is the budget I have, so if I can't get a top breeder, then I will get one notch less. I just don't have the 3 to 4 thousand to put down on a dog, but I do believe ones that charge less do exist, and I'm here to find out who.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Whether or not a dog is prone to hip or other health problems is going to be related to how much health screening the breeder does. Look for OF A or pennhip ratings on parents if they are American dogs
> 
> You might not want an American showline to be a real personal protection dog but OP I think you need to learn more about that because I doubt you really want a personal protection dog.
> 
> GSDs often have high prey drive. Have you had dogs before? Read on here about what it can be like with a puppy and small kids and a GSD and cats.


I have not had a dog before.

I have also read what it's like to have a GSD and kids/cats... from what I see, I haven't seen a single thread (or outside of here) where there were bad incidents with a properly trained dog.

There is a first for everything

I don't want an american showline. That's for sure and has already been decided by me.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

razorseal said:


> I understand... I know I can't get everything from my wishlist. I guess that's why it's a wishlist and not a needlist
> 
> When I posted this thread, I had less knowledge. I research alot and fairly quick. I've learned more since I posted and realized that a puppy can be trained well to work with other animals and kids and training/teaching is key.
> 
> Unfortunetly that is the budget I have, so if I can't get a top breeder, then I will get one notch less. I just don't have the 3 to 4 thousand to put down on a dog, but I do believe ones that charge less do exist, and I'm here to find out who.





razorseal said:


> I understand... I know I can't get everything from my wishlist. I guess that's why it's a wishlist and not a needlist
> 
> When I posted this thread, I had less knowledge. I research alot and fairly quick. I've learned more since I posted and realized that a puppy can be trained well to work with other animals and kids and training/teaching is key.
> 
> Unfortunetly that is the budget I have, so if I can't get a top breeder, then I will get one notch less. I just don't have the 3 to 4 thousand to put down on a dog, but I do believe ones that charge less do exist, and I'm here to find out who.


For the range of 1500-2000 you can definitely get a well bred working line puppy. But this can be one of those "pay now or pay later" kind of things. You think it might not be that big of a deal to get a shepherd puppy for 1000 from wherever, but down the line you are going to pay in back in spades in vet and trainer bills. If you find a good breeder with the right pup for 1800 or 2000, you should pay it.

Which by the way, if I were you, having never had a dog before and wanting a GSD to start with to raise with young children and cats--I wouldn't do that period without a good trainer on board even with a well bred dog.

Research is not the same as experience. Where is your wife on all this? Does she stay home with the kids? Is she prepared to have a little landshark in their midst every day? Can she handle potty training pup and the small kids at the same time?

PLease do enough research to realize that a fair amount of trainers who offer personal protection training...and that whole genre as a whole, is full of con artists who will and I quote someone else and I'm sorry I can't remember who "take your money and ruin your dog"

If you can't exercise this pup every day who will?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

razorseal said:


> I have not had a dog before.
> 
> I have also read what it's like to have a GSD and kids/cats... from what I see, I haven't seen a single thread (or outside of here) where there were bad incidents with a properly trained dog.
> 
> ...


Let's see. It can go great or not so great. You are not bringing home a "properly trained dog", you are bringing home a baby with very sharp teeth that instinctively wants to bite stuff, which will turn into a rambunctious, strong teenager with bigger sharper teeth and still instinctively wants to bark at and bite stuff. 

Your hormonal doggy teenager may bark at something it shouldn't, like the neighbor, or the cat, or whatever, and it may be a big booming scary bark now from a strong dog who if it happens to be under exercised and under utilized may have enough energy to intimidate you or your wife and now it's not acting like a properly trained dog at all. Nothing fundamentally wrong with it---just a GSD going thru teenage phase that needs guidance.

Your properly trained dog arrives somewhere after 2 years after you've been working hard all along going through less awesome stuff


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

razorseal said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I've been doing alot of reading lately and trying to understanding just about everything about getting the right dog for us. Just until recently, I had no idea about breeding/bloodlines or anything similar. I thought, you try to get a purebred breed and you're done. Come to find out it's not that simple.
> 
> ...



Hey there fellow Floridian! Unfortunately our selection here is slim, which part of FL are you from? I can definitely recommend some great trainers at least to you. Not to dissuade you but these dogs are not for the faint of heart, especially for a family with young children and kitties. You will want to pick out the perfect puppy that will fit into your family. A couple things from your original post I noticed that you may have issues with (maybe you've learned this info already on your own but here it is either way), these dogs need exercise every single day. Not just once a day usually. Expect 2 hours minimum of walking (once they are older), on top of that training every single day. And that is usually not enough for a medium drive dog. Have you heard the phrase land shark yet? GSD puppies have a reputation of chewing on their new owners for months causing scars and lots of bleeding. There are certainly ways to redirect this mouthiness but young children may take the brunt of the teething phase. Also expect for the first few weeks sometimes longer to take the puppy outside potty every 15 minutes. These dogs also get big really QUICK! At only a couple months old my puppy was already 50 pounds but they still act like a tiny puppy jumping all over people and kids with teeth and claws. These are not dogs content to just sit in a backyard all day, they need to be socialized and learn about the world around them. A lot of people also struggle with the cat thing, even though GSD make great herding dogs they can be a bit obsessive sometimes over other animals.. just check out the recent threads this week discussing peoples problems with their puppies and cats. I understand not wanting to pay more than $1500 for a puppy, heck we didn't either! But we got what we paid for (and sometimes life just happens) and we had to spend over $5,000 in medical bills on our sick puppy... dogs are SO expensive so set aside some money or look into pet insurance (healthy paws is highly recommended) so in case if something happens you don't have to make a hard decision. There is a reason these dogs are not recommended for first time dog owners, they can be a handful and sometimes challenge their owners but the reward once they have matured and if they are handled properly is worth it. 

Here are some threads posted this week about when things go very wrong just so you can get an idea... 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/741097-euthanizing-aggressive-dog.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...king-some-really-good-input-not-good-day.html

Make sure everyone in the family is on board, get everyone involved in training including the kids! A good trainer can make a world of difference especially if you start out right away. 

What Cowboysgirl said is spot on , expect two years of **** (I had a working line that took 4 years to mature) and a ton of training and exercise until you get that noble, majestic family dog you are thinking of. If you do decide to go the GSD route I encourage you to come back here and get some tips on training and health, theres a lot of people on here with a wealth of great information. I completely understand why you want a GSD, they are the best breed in the world  .


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> For the range of 1500-2000 you can definitely get a well bred working line puppy. But this can be one of those "pay now or pay later" kind of things. You think it might not be that big of a deal to get a shepherd puppy for 1000 from wherever, but down the line you are going to pay in back in spades in vet and trainer bills. If you find a good breeder with the right pup for 1800 or 2000, you should pay it.
> 
> Which by the way, if I were you, having never had a dog before and wanting a GSD to start with to raise with young children and cats--I wouldn't do that period without a good trainer on board even with a well bred dog.
> 
> ...


Wife is on board. I didn't raise a dog before, but we have raised cats and do know they don't come cheap.

I also understand it's not a walk in the park. We both work.

I mean again, this was my wishlist. I might not be able to to protection work, but they are wishes. I found a schutz club in my area that I will go to, I doubt they are the con artists.

And how do you guys exercise your dog everyday? I mean like today... I had yard work, and soon after it has been pouring rain all day. Does everyone here take every single one of their dogs out for a mile run? I guess what is "exercise" it's very subjective. Are we talking about running a certain distance? or are we saying go outside and get some running around and playing in the field? I just don't believe everyone exercises every single dog they have here lol.

I am researching cowboysgirl. I am not the type to half ass anything


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Hey there fellow Floridian! Unfortunately our selection here is slim, which part of FL are you from? I can definitely recommend some great trainers at least to you. Not to dissuade you but these dogs are not for the faint of heart, especially for a family with young children and kitties. You will want to pick out the perfect puppy that will fit into your family. A couple things from your original post I noticed that you may have issues with (maybe you've learned this info already on your own but here it is either way), these dogs need exercise every single day. Not just once a day usually. Expect 2 hours minimum of walking (once they are older), on top of that training every single day. And that is usually not enough for a medium drive dog. Have you heard the phrase land shark yet? GSD puppies have a reputation of chewing on their new owners for months causing scars and lots of bleeding. There are certainly ways to redirect this mouthiness but young children may take the brunt of the teething phase. Also expect for the first few weeks sometimes longer to take the puppy outside potty every 15 minutes. These dogs also get big really QUICK! At only a couple months old my puppy was already 50 pounds but they still act like a tiny puppy jumping all over people and kids with teeth and claws. These are not dogs content to just sit in a backyard all day, they need to be socialized and learn about the world around them. A lot of people also struggle with the cat thing, even though GSD make great herding dogs they can be a bit obsessive sometimes over other animals.. just check out the recent threads this week discussing peoples problems with their puppies and cats. I understand not wanting to pay more than $1500 for a puppy, heck we didn't either! But we got what we paid for (and sometimes life just happens) and we had to spend over $5,000 in medical bills on our sick puppy... dogs are SO expensive so set aside some money or look into pet insurance (healthy paws is highly recommended) so in case if something happens you don't have to make a hard decision. There is a reason these dogs are not recommended for first time dog owners, they can be a handful and sometimes challenge their owners but the reward once they have matured and if they are handled properly is worth it.
> 
> Here are some threads posted this week about when things go very wrong just so you can get an idea...
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/741097-euthanizing-aggressive-dog.html
> ...


Hey there, I'm in Palm Beach County. Thanks for the reply.

I did hear the landshark term in this post. It just sounds so crazy compared to what I've been reading other than here and some people.

We have a K9 at work (import from Holland, assume it's a west german breed) that the dept paid 9,000 for. I wanna say it was about 9 months maybe when they got it? I see the dog enough that I can tell these things are not a sit around type dogs. He's still in K9 academy with handler waiting to be FDLE certified. He's hyper, but chill... Compare that to a Malinois we had last year. Thing was a beast, if you got near the vehicle, he'd go off. This guy is chill unless from what I can tell. He's still a pup and loves playing around etc. I've already gotten nibbed couple times from him. lol

What I'm trying to get at is this.... I know they can get VERY expensive... I also believe they can be had for a little less when a puppy lol. I spoke with couple breeders and they told me that these pups grow up around their grandkids etc and I will be fine as long as the kids socialize with the pup and pup knows this is part of family. I also understand the K9 we got gets trained for 700 hours for basic training every day almost. I understand training will be part of the experience, and I look forward to it. I plan on getting with the police k9 trainers that do civilian stuff as well (at least that's the plan)

I know bills can add up too. We had some kind of mega-colon on our cat and it sure wasn't cheap... and surgery before that. I learned my lesson and got insurance. Same will happen with this GSD lol.

What, you guys don't want me to join the GSD community? jeez LOL (kidding)


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> Hey there fellow Floridian! Unfortunately our selection here is slim, which part of FL are you from? I can definitely recommend some great trainers at least to you. Not to dissuade you but these dogs are not for the faint of heart, especially for a family with young children and kitties. You will want to pick out the perfect puppy that will fit into your family. A couple things from your original post I noticed that you may have issues with (maybe you've learned this info already on your own but here it is either way), these dogs need exercise every single day. Not just once a day usually. Expect 2 hours minimum of walking (once they are older), on top of that training every single day. And that is usually not enough for a medium drive dog. Have you heard the phrase land shark yet? GSD puppies have a reputation of chewing on their new owners for months causing scars and lots of bleeding. There are certainly ways to redirect this mouthiness but young children may take the brunt of the teething phase. Also expect for the first few weeks sometimes longer to take the puppy outside potty every 15 minutes. These dogs also get big really QUICK! At only a couple months old my puppy was already 50 pounds but they still act like a tiny puppy jumping all over people and kids with teeth and claws. These are not dogs content to just sit in a backyard all day, they need to be socialized and learn about the world around them. A lot of people also struggle with the cat thing, even though GSD make great herding dogs they can be a bit obsessive sometimes over other animals.. just check out the recent threads this week discussing peoples problems with their puppies and cats. I understand not wanting to pay more than $1500 for a puppy, heck we didn't either! But we got what we paid for (and sometimes life just happens) and we had to spend over $5,000 in medical bills on our sick puppy... dogs are SO expensive so set aside some money or look into pet insurance (healthy paws is highly recommended) so in case if something happens you don't have to make a hard decision. There is a reason these dogs are not recommended for first time dog owners, they can be a handful and sometimes challenge their owners but the reward once they have matured and if they are handled properly is worth it.
> 
> Here are some threads posted this week about when things go very wrong just so you can get an idea...
> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/741097-euthanizing-aggressive-dog.html
> ...


Forgot to mention I'm in Palm Beach County. There is a K9 police trainer (they did FAU dogs and few others I think) that I'm going to get in touch with. There is also the Coral Springs PD trainers that do some civilian work I think that I'm going to get in touch with as well. I would love some recommendations you have for me though! Feel free to PM me.


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

Do you work from home or during the day, will it be your wife, kids and puppy? I only ask as a wife who has been in that situation, it is hard work. You are basically taking on another baby but one with very sharp teeth who unfortunately doesn't wear nappies. And small children are very exciting to puppies. my son was 4 when we got our last puppy and I went through a stage where they couldn't be outside together because son would squeal and run and my land shark puppy would think that was the best game ever. 

A GSD in your situation is doable but you have to be extra careful with the pup you go for so I do think your 30 day timeline is unrealistic. Reputable breeders will have a good idea where their puppies are going to go before they are born. And temperament is especially important, there is no way I could have managed my current girl with young children.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

razorseal said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I've been doing alot of reading lately and trying to understanding just about everything about getting the right dog for us. Just until recently, I had no idea about breeding/bloodlines or anything similar. I thought, you try to get a purebred breed and you're done. Come to find out it's not that simple.
> 
> ...


I have some thoughts that may work for you or may not. 
You have two young children and cats, a puppy is going to drive them CRAZY! There is a fairly active GSD rescue close to you I do believe @Magwart can maybe chime in here?
My opinion is that you may be better served with a young adult rescue, and I am not trying to be offensive I am just thinking about your situation, and your budget. Most of my personal dogs have been foster fails and my last patrol dog, and my best one, was of unknown lineage. 
Alternately breeders often have young adults who were returned, or kept back for breeding and then proven unsuitable. 
If you have your heart set on a breeder pup, and most especially because you have small children, do yourself a favor and wait to find a good one. 
Don't get caught up to much in lines, ASL's are still GSD's and I have seen some good ones.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I don't think a lot of rescues will adopt to a home with such small children, especially when the owner admits they are "rough" with dogs.

But I did have the thought an adult rescue might be a better option than a puppy. However, see above.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't think a lot of rescues will adopt to a home with such small children, especially when the owner admits they are "rough" with dogs.
> 
> But I did have the thought an adult rescue might be a better option than a puppy. However, see above.


How much to trainers cost? Just trying to get a rough idea. is it per session they charge? you go to them and train at their workplace? If you guys could shed some light on that.

You all have me rethinking now. It goes against everything I've been reading lol. and reading couple threads linked here really has me thinking I need trainer often. 

So does any of you participating in this thread have no kids and available to be home all day with a puppy? (assuming you acquired a puppy)

Yes, there is a place that has GSD rescues, but they don't adopt to families with kids less than 5.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

In Florida, the rescue I've heard good things about is Heidi's Legacy. I absolutely agree that you should probably consider an adult, fostered with kids AND cats, already trained with some basic OB -- a bomb-proof, turn-key dog. 

My rescue experience is this: we get 20+ apps for puppies, when we have them. It's super competitive -- we pick breed-experienced homes with past puppy experience who know what they're in for, typically with a nice training reference (on top of their stellar vet reference). 

We would never choose to match a a puppy for a first-time dog owner, with no breed experience, no trainer reference, and two toddlers. It's not setting them up for success, and we want the first GSD to be a success, not a stressful mess, so that you get hooked on the breed (and breed rescue).

Before you say, "But I can do it!"....let me tell you what I've seen over and over again.

Most of the time, the busy families with young kids that have adopted puppies from the rescues I know return the dogs. They all seem to somehow realize they made a huge mistake and want to return the puppy...sometimes within a week, or a month, but certainly before a year is up. Sometimes they wait til it's no longer cute, and it's a big, awkward, gangly adolescent that's kind of out of control before returning to us.

It's the pattern that's repeated over and over that led to the rescues not wanting to put puppies in homes with small kids -- hard experience, repeated regularly. So why does it happen? Here's why...

What usually happens is the puppy naturally wants to use the toddlers as chew toys, and play with them like littermates. Human kids squeak the loudest of all the toys, and they're just the right size. The toddlers don't understand that this painful behavior is play, and so they get upset. They sometimes become fearful of the dog and cry when it approaches. The parents feel horrible for doing this to their children. Some of these inexperienced owners will yell at and hit the puppy or crate it all the time or come here and post about how "aggressive" it is. Or they get frustrated at how long redirection takes the pup to learn, and give up right away.

The pup will also try to tear up kids' toys because it can't distinguish (and the kid toys taste like kids, so they're much more interesting) -- and there are more kid tears when the favorite stuffed animal gets gutted and stuffing is strewn everywhere. Then there's the food snatching -- toddlers with Goldfish crackers or Cheerios hold them out to the side, distracted while snacking, and the puppy sees a treat offered and swipes it, clumsily nipping the small morsel of food from the little fingers. Again there are tears, and more anger at the dog, and worries about it becoming dangerous. 

And then there are dog potty accidents, for parents already dealing with diapers and human toilet training issues. Add in the need for training classes, when young families are already understandably tired and frazzled, and none of the great plans that the family had for the training the dog actually come to fruition. So the longer it stays, the more obnoxious it becomes.

You'll get lots of stories here about how people had no problem juggling 4 toddlers, 5 dogs, IPO trials, show ring events, a side business, a full time job, and hobbies. These are people who are either super-human, or ultra-savvy dog handlers (and parents!!!) with a system in place to make it all work. The reality is it's like having another kid in terms of time -- a destructive kid with sharp teeth that loves to rip up your favorite possessions.

Mere mortals who are getting their first dog sometimes end up pulling their own hair out within the first few days, and soon thereafter, the puppy goes straight back where it came from. Every single one swore they wouldn't be "that kind" of family that gives up on the pup. They all are 100% sure they want a puppy and won't consider older, easier dogs. They get mad at rescues (and selective breeders) who don't put pups in homes with toddlers. 

Some of them go and do it anyway. I've had the same families who got mad at me for not matching them with a puppy later call to ask if they could dump the puppy they ended up buying from some breeder, because the rescue was right all along, and now their breeder won't take it back. Now I have to find it a foster home.

OTOH, when these same families trust a good rescue (or good breeder with a retired dog) to match them a mellow, kid-loving, easy-going adult, some real magic can happen. A dog that's already lived with young kids has already shown its love (or lack thereof) for kids -- you know what you're getting. Some dogs dote on kids, love to romp with them, snuggle with them, are tolerant of being crawled on, keep a watchful eye on them, and are simply AWESOME around little ones. Those are the dogs our rescue tries to put in homes with young kids: bomb proof, already house trained, crate trained, leash trained, with some basic OB to make the young family's life easy. We want these dogs to slide into their new lives easily, not add to a family's stress. 

Those families go out into the community and rave about how great their dog is. They come back someday for a second dog when the kids are older. They send their friends. We build our community reputation on adoptions like that.

You should expect that someone will be evaluating how your kids are with dogs during the meet and greet -- I'd expect no difference between good breeders or good rescues in that regard. If you happen to have out of control kids climbing on the dog, if tails are being pulled, or dogs are being hit, all without parental intervention, you will never, ever be approved for adoption by any rescue for any age of dog (and I doubt good breeders would send a puppy home either!). So letting your kid be rough with dogs is absolutely no-go. Parents who are vigilant about teaching kids to be gentle though can sometimes be approved to adopt well-matched, tolerant adult dogs, with some rescues. I can't imagine any good breeder would be any different in that regard.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

razorseal said:


> How much to trainers cost? Just trying to get a rough idea. is it per session they charge? you go to them and train at their workplace? If you guys could shed some light on that.
> 
> You all have me rethinking now. It goes against everything I've been reading lol. and reading couple threads linked here really has me thinking I need trainer often.
> 
> ...


You can do a 6 week group class for 90-120 usually. You take the pup/dog to the place and do the class. Private appointments will probably be a wide range from 40/hr-100+ per hour, where either the trainer comes to you or you go to them.

Here is the thing people don't realize though. You don't train the dog for an hour at class and then you're done. You have to continue applying every waking hour of the day, and the whole family has to be on board or else you have one family member who can handle the dog and the rest who can't.

So when, if, hopefully you get a good handle on how to stop your pup from using you as a chew toy and get it to sit on command, then you go off to work and your wife has to also be able to effectively make sure pup is not using her and the kids as a chew toy as well...Magwart's post is worth reading a few times!

What you might get out of a group class is some VERY basic stuff on using a clicker or rewards, or using leash pressure to get a behavior, and it will vary widely as far as how good the info is and how much it helps you. There was just a thread on here -- I think it was the same one, where a trainer advocated daily alpha rolls and also dragged the puppy on the ground by its leash during class.

So, unfortunately, the world is just FULL of sub bar breeders with sub par dogs, who may very well not be charging sub par prices, and trainers spewing horrible info, and before you can even pay a trainer to help you, you first have to find one who has a clue.

I know some people in Florida GSD rescue, I could inquire if they adopt to homes with children.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We wanted a German Shepherd when our children were young and the breeder I wanted to buy from would not sell to anyone until their youngest child was school age. I suggest getting a young rescue who has everything you want but is not a puppy. Learn on that dog. Become a good trainer. Save money now. Then when your children are 5 and 6, you will have enough saved for the kind of puppy you want know and the knowledge and experience to train the dog right. You will be much happier with a puppy if you can afford to buy the dog you want. You might find one under $1,500 but chances are much better at $2,000 or higher.

I stopped rescuing because of all the problem dogs I got, but if you are patient and very open about what you want, the rescue will eventually find you the right dog.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

razorseal said:


> How much to trainers cost? Just trying to get a rough idea. is it per session they charge? you go to them and train at their workplace? If you guys could shed some light on that.
> 
> You all have me rethinking now. It goes against everything I've been reading lol. and reading couple threads linked here really has me thinking I need trainer often.
> 
> ...


I have no kids in the home, and I've been working from home lately so pretty much home when my guy was a puppy 24/7. He was pretty much as much work as another kid, maybe worse since he had razor sharp teeth trying to gnaw my fingers off and I had to take him out pee every 15 minutes when he was little. I set an alarm on my phone for every 15 minutes every day for weeks to potty train him. Now that he is older I'm just maintaining our training and exercise. With most GSD if you slack off on exercise you might as well say bye bye to your couch, furniature, etc. they are dogs that need a job. Either that or they'll run you up the wall with neurotic behavior. Sure mine can settle for a week if I'm sick.. but if I were to consistently slack off he would most likely make me pay for it (literally).
Speaking of money again....
Statistically GSD is one of the most unhealthy breeds, prone to hip problems, seizures, EPI, cancer, allergies, etc. sadly you have to take into account finances. With little ones and saving for their college is this type of dog affordable to you? And this additional stress of a potentially sick animal? You want to be able to give them a long happy life. Again I can't stress pet insurance enough. But pet insurance doesn't cover everything even.... my GSD has allergies and can't even eat regular dog food. To feed him it costs us $480-$550 a month. He gets so sick on regular dog food he wouldn't survive...


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> You can do a 6 week group class for 90-120 usually. You take the pup/dog to the place and do the class. Private appointments will probably be a wide range from 40/hr-100+ per hour, where either the trainer comes to you or you go to them.
> 
> Here is the thing people don't realize though. You don't train the dog for an hour at class and then you're done. You have to continue applying every waking hour of the day, and the whole family has to be on board or else you have one family member who can handle the dog and the rest who can't.
> 
> ...


Man, and I thought GSDs were an easier breed to work with. You guys making them sound like their one purpose is to eat people LOL.

joking aside, how do you guys juggle working (I assume people work here and not retired) and raise a puppy? and assume you are married or w/kids. How did you start out? Did you want a GSD, but skipped on getting one and got another breed and 10-20 years have passed?

If you could, I'd appreciate it. I've contacted couple rescues and applied for one which I was not picked due to having other animals in the house. it was a 2 year old therapy dog dropout. I also didn't appreciate them asking what my donation amount will be as part of the application. Makes me think the highest donator gets the animal, and not the other pre-reqs. If I put 500 for a donation fee and someone puts 5,000 for donation, I don't think they're going to pick me. 

I also would like to know the story of a dog. Too many times they just don't know the dog's past... I've read stories where a supposed kid/animal friendly dog was not so friendly and had to be returned. I'd hate to get a dog, attach to it, only to give it back and poor guy needs a new home.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Magwart said:


> In Florida, the rescue I've heard good things about is Heidi's Legacy. I absolutely agree that you should probably consider an adult, fostered with kids AND cats, already trained with some basic OB -- a bomb-proof, turn-key dog.
> 
> My rescue experience is this: we get 20+ apps for puppies, when we have them. It's super competitive -- we pick breed-experienced homes with past puppy experience who know what they're in for, typically with a nice training reference (on top of their stellar vet reference).
> 
> ...


Thank you for the great reply. I really appreciate it.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

LuvShepherds said:


> We wanted a German Shepherd when our children were young and the breeder I wanted to buy from would not sell to anyone until their youngest child was school age. I suggest getting a young rescue who has everything you want but is not a puppy. Learn on that dog. Become a good trainer. Save money now. Then when your children are 5 and 6, you will have enough saved for the kind of puppy you want know and the knowledge and experience to train the dog right. You will be much happier with a puppy if you can afford to buy the dog you want. You might find one under $1,500 but chances are much better at $2,000 or higher.
> 
> I stopped rescuing because of all the problem dogs I got, but if you are patient and very open about what you want, the rescue will eventually find you the right dog.


I'd be willing to go to 2000 and up if needed, I just had no idea how complicated this was. lol...

again, that was a wishlist. I wish my budget doesn't go above 1500. If I have to pay more, then I guess it is what it is, but sounds like I still have some more reading and decision making to do. It's not just here I'm reading asking questions. I'm actively talking to other owners, breeders and trying to get in touch with some trainers.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

GandalfTheShepherd said:


> I have no kids in the home, and I've been working from home lately so pretty much home when my guy was a puppy 24/7. He was pretty much as much work as another kid, maybe worse since he had razor sharp teeth trying to gnaw my fingers off and I had to take him out pee every 15 minutes when he was little. I set an alarm on my phone for every 15 minutes every day for weeks to potty train him. Now that he is older I'm just maintaining our training and exercise. With most GSD if you slack off on exercise you might as well say bye bye to your couch, furniature, etc. they are dogs that need a job. Either that or they'll run you up the wall with neurotic behavior. Sure mine can settle for a week if I'm sick.. but if I were to consistently slack off he would most likely make me pay for it (literally).
> Speaking of money again....
> Statistically GSD is one of the most unhealthy breeds, prone to hip problems, seizures, EPI, cancer, allergies, etc. sadly you have to take into account finances. With little ones and saving for their college is this type of dog affordable to you? And this additional stress of a potentially sick animal? You want to be able to give them a long happy life. Again I can't stress pet insurance enough. But pet insurance doesn't cover everything even.... my GSD has allergies and can't even eat regular dog food. To feed him it costs us $480-$550 a month. He gets so sick on regular dog food he wouldn't survive...


ok guys, just be straight with me. You figured out who this really is and just decided as a group that you don't want me to get a GSD LOL. 

I haven't heard a single reason why I should get one, everything has been NOT to get one. There has to be at least 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good fit. pros and cons people!

:grin2:


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

razorseal said:


> ok guys, just be straight with me. You figured out who this really is and just decided as a group that you don't want me to get a GSD LOL.
> 
> I haven't heard a single reason why I should get one, everything has been NOT to get one. There has to be at least 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good fit. pros and cons people!
> 
> :grin2:


We're just concerned because of your situation honestly! An older GSD could be such a perfect fit for your family but you'd have to get really lucky and the rescues around here are really picky. Or maybe a very mellow puppy if your wife is on board with doing most of the training and exercise if she's staying at home with the kids. My mom did it when I was a kid and none of us got eaten! Intelligence does not equate to easily trained, these dogs are strong willed... a good trainer can easily train them but this is your first dog. If you don't know what you're doing this can potentially go very bad. And this all comes with experience. The intelligence of these dogs sometimes is a bad thing if you aren't experienced , they figure out how to manipulate you, or open doors they shouldn't get into, etc. Reference those links I put up in an earlier post. You know if we thought this sounded like a good situation we would all be happy to see another person falling in love with the breed because we LOVE these dogs! They are capable of anything, police work, guiding blind people, finding lost people... heck mine is in the process of learning how to do the dishes LOL and he pretty much has it down pat in a day! How many kids can even do that? They are loyal companions but you have to earn their respect by treating them with respect. You cannot baby them, but you also cannot have a heavy hand. There is just so much here that words cannot express and just takes the experience and time to realize. I may be biased but I think a Swiss shepherd might be a better fit for this situation if you still want the shepherd look. Mine is wonderful with kids, he absolutely adores my nephew and even kids in Home Depot will run up to him and hug him and he will kiss them. Never had to worry about aggression in him. I think aggression is probably the last thing you should be looking for right now with little kids, too risky you might get a nervy and aggressive dog. My Swiss shepherd is very gentle with our cat as well but he still has that awesome shepherd drive and willingness to work. They are known to be a little mellower than their German shepherd counter parts. He is an easy dog, at a year old he can do two 1 hour walks a day and sleep the rest. My working line sable would have ripped up the house at this age and that routine. I have no doubt if someone were to threaten the family my Swiss would display defensive behavior, his looks alone intimidate most people. Just a thought


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

razorseal said:


> How much to trainers cost? Just trying to get a rough idea. is it per session they charge? you go to them and train at their workplace? If you guys could shed some light on that.
> 
> You all have me rethinking now. It goes against everything I've been reading lol. and reading couple threads linked here really has me thinking I need trainer often.
> 
> ...


I have raised puppies with kids, and without. I was fortunate that for many years I had a job where I was allowed to take puppies to work. In fact Shadow had her own little nest in the accountants desk drawer. Lol.

I got Sabi with a 3 year old and a 5 year old. She came to live with me at 7 weeks. Being that I was the better part of a single mom, I was frequently seen with 3 year old on hip, backpack and bag over shoulder, 5 year old holding bag strap and puppy under arm, car keys in mouth and a bag of groceries dangling from fingers. Taking puppy out for night pee frequently woke children, toys got demolished, heads got bumped, my 3 year old thought maybe he could pee on the floor, he also got stuck in the puppy crate. I don't know who ate who's food and I may have packed a dog cookie in one of the kids lunches. Oops.
And Sabi was hands down the best, easiest puppy of any breed I have EVER raised. I cannot stress that enough!
Now I raised tons of foster puppies that were way worse, but they mostly left by 10 weeks so the children had limited exposure. An older puppy torturing the kids is much less fun, and will make you rethink sobriety. Lol. And I have an attitude that most parents find offensive. My rule was always sort of unless someone is bleeding or something is broken deal with it yourself. I seldom interfered in the stealing of treats or toys although as Sabs got older I would often give her "the look" when she sat on the kids to stop them escaping. 

And just so you know, when Shadow came along I had a 14 year old drama queen in residence who would shriek, run, jump on the furniture and cry at sharp puppy teeth on her ankles. She also, unfortunately, taught Shadow on purpose to slap you if she was displeased. They used to sit on the bed and have slap fights. Now I have a German Shepherd who slaps me if I do something she doesn't like.

No kids and it is soooooo much easier.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

razorseal said:


> Man, and I thought GSDs were an easier breed to work with. You guys making them sound like their one purpose is to eat people LOL.
> 
> joking aside, how do you guys juggle working (I assume people work here and not retired) and raise a puppy? and assume you are married or w/kids. How did you start out? Did you want a GSD, but skipped on getting one and got another breed and 10-20 years have passed?
> 
> ...


When I had kids age 7 and 9, we adopted an adult dog vs. buying a puppy. He had some issues. He has now passed from cancer, not as old as we wished but he made it to about 10.

I had another year old pup who was a rescue foster, and later, an 8 week pup where I did have the ability to take some time off when he was little. I work from home so I was able to take care of him and our kids are moved out now.

Plenty of people juggle working and raising a puppy. Just that your particular set of circumstances, multiple very small kids, cats, small yard, maybe not able exercise dog daily, this would be your first dog...these are variables that can make things really hard. We are all here because we love GSDs. We would all be thrilled for you to have a shepherd that was a perfect family member that you are happy with...nobody wants you to wind up like the families Magwart described

My white dog who is now 2 and a half was a super easy puppy. I don't think he ever bit me. I know he gave my husband at least one overly enthusiastic toothy kiss. It's hard for me to say how much exercise he really REQUIRES...he seems to be a very mellow dog to me, but he has several acres fenced in and we have forty acres we walk off leash on daily. He trains and competes in a few different sports. I think he could do fine with less, but he enjoys what we do together. He got hold of one of my husband's shoes once and decorated it a bit but he hardly ever destroyed anything. But he was properly contained and supervised. I was not distracted by toddlers. So hard to know.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Yes, my dogs are exercised everyday and I find it interesting to laugh at the thought of that... the one that isn’t, is 11. When they were young, it was more than an hour daily, rain or shine. I work full time, I have yard work, I don’t have kids.

I’ve had dogs my entire life (36yrs), so a good part of it comes second nature.
I would feel comfortable having a baby with an existing dog, or adding a dog once my kids were older..... I would not however get my first dog, no less a gsd, with a 1yr old. I like happy kids, well behaved dogs, and my sanity.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

razorseal said:


> ok guys, just be straight with me. You figured out who this really is and just decided as a group that you don't want me to get a GSD LOL.
> 
> I haven't heard a single reason why I should get one, everything has been NOT to get one. There has to be at least 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good fit. pros and cons people!
> 
> :grin2:


We absolutely want you to get one if that is what you want.
But we want you to get the best one available for your situation.

A good GSD is great with kids, the original vision for the breed addressed the need to be good with children. If you can say honestly that you can dedicate the time and energy to the puppy then you should absolutely get one. But throw the 30 days out the window and find a good breeder who will find a pup that will be a joy for you and your family.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Fodder said:


> Yes, my dogs are exercised everyday and I find it interesting to laugh at the thought of that... the one that isn’t, is 11. When they were young, it was more than an hour daily, rain or shine. I work full time, I have yard work, I don’t have kids.


My 11 and a half year old still wants to go for her daily walk and train at some new thing...she is there with bells on to do this daily. She is FINALLY at the point in her life where she can miss a day and not complain and make my life miserable. But she does not miss many days. At least 6 out of 7 she is doing her same old routine.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Tilden still rises to every occasion and is estatic to go out too @Thecowboysgirl , he’s just no longer at the point of _needing_ it


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

razorseal said:


> ok guys, just be straight with me. You figured out who this really is and just decided as a group that you don't want me to get a GSD LOL.
> 
> I haven't heard a single reason why I should get one, everything has been NOT to get one. There has to be at least 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good fit. pros and cons people!
> 
> :grin2:



I think you'd be fine with the right adult GSD. Like everyone has said, no dog experience, 2 toddlers, cats, and a GSD _puppy_? Yikes, lol. I'm exhausted just thinking about it! In all seriousness, GSDs can be great family dogs, but you want to stack the deck in your favor, so everyone is happy.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

dogfaeries said:


> I think you'd be fine with the right adult GSD. Like everyone has said, no dog experience, 2 toddlers, cats, and a GSD _puppy_? Yikes, lol. I'm exhausted just thinking about it! In all seriousness, GSDs can be great family dogs, but you want to stack the deck in your favor, so everyone is happy.


What kind of convincing can I do with the wife to trade the 2 kids for a puppy GSD? any ideas?

kidding!

That being said, I'll throw out the 30 day thing. I guess that's just my nature of wanting something, and wanting it now (single child here). I'll keep an eye out for adults (I have been, just stopped when I was told to look at puppies by breeders)

I was reccomended couple breeders here that aren't local, but within my modified price range (2000, plus shipping) I'll see if they're willing to give me the time of their day to talk to me and see what they have and what they reccomend. 

Being a police officer, I would think I'm an alpha type, and also being a firearms insturctor and teaching, I think I have good "human" teaching skills. I think with the right dog, I can really make this work and adapt. If the dog stays in the living room and kids stay in the family room and they play under supervision once in a while, it could be OK. I'm sure there is a little bit of luck involved picking the right dog too. I've seen our police K9... a very hyper 16 month pup that is in police K9 training right now. I would assume he's a very high drive work dog. Probably not what I'm looking for, but from what I heard, he's great at everything he does (especially tracking/scent). 

Also, I'm more home than most 9 to 5 people. I work rotating shifts, so Sometimes I'm home 3 times during the week and sometimes 2. Weekend wife is home, and she's onboard for training too. Who knows, next thing you know, I go to nights and I'm home all the time during the day with the dog and work at night! Just never know in my job. There's also that.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> My 11 and a half year old still wants to go for her daily walk and train at some new thing...she is there with bells on to do this daily. She is FINALLY at the point in her life where she can miss a day and not complain and make my life miserable. But she does not miss many days. At least 6 out of 7 she is doing her same old routine.


Sounds like they keep us in check for our fitness too then!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

razorseal said:


> What kind of convincing can I do with the wife to trade the 2 kids for a puppy GSD? any ideas?
> 
> 
> 
> kidding!




I’m not sure which is the better deal, lol! 
GSD puppies can be such a pain in the rear. My youngest shepherd is 20 months, and she’s a handful. Did I mention she’s a handful? Argues with me about everything, talks back... She’s feisty and I love her so much. She would’ve been an awful puppy for an inexperienced dog owner.


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## Calipso (Jan 10, 2008)

I have good luck finding GSDs thru Craigslist. But you have to be patient. Check the conditions at the sellers place. Walk away from puppy mills. Also, I would only consider sellers that have both parents on-site so you can have a reasonable assurance that you're getting an actaul GSD and not a mix. Obviously, this is not without risks of getting cheated. So use care, ask questions, and look around.

My most recent GSD puppy is Gypsy which I found thru CL and she cost me $250. No papers or registration. But I have no intention of showing or breeding her, so that doesn't matter. The seller's site was clean and all the pups had their shots on schedule with vet's paperwork and they were clean and healthy. Also, the seller would not release the pups until they were 7 weeks old. Beware of sellers looking to unload pups younger than that. It's a sign they are more interested in the cash rather than the well being of the puppies.

Also, as has been pointed out, GSD puppies are notorious biters and their teeth are really sharp. Small kids may not appreciate the cuts and scrapes a GSD puppy will inflict when playing. They will draw blood. (Accidentally, of course.)


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

I just wrote a long response to this thread, the session timed out, and I lost everything, so I'll write a briefer version now. I have two GSDs and two children under 3. I work weekend nights and my husband works weekdays so someone is almost always home. We have fenced acreage to exercise the dogs if we can't take them out for some reason. Your experience could be different, but I don't think I could manage raising a GSD puppy with two toddlers unless I had a lot of childcare support (very involved grandparents or aunts, uncles, ect, who could provide lots of cheap or free babysitting). 

I was very strategic about when I chose to bring the GSDs home. I got my first puppy and trained him before the baby was born, I got the second puppy and trained him when the baby was in an easier phase (around 7 months). I couldn't be any happier with the way my children and dogs get along. I think timing, substantial time invested in training, choosing good breeders, and perhaps a little good luck played a large role in that. 

I recommend keeping shepherd puppies in obedience classes for their first year or two. It's a great way to practice training among distractions and around various people and dogs in a controlled setting. I try to spend an hour or two a day training and exercising my GSDs, especially when they were younger. I go out with the dogs when the children are napping or when my husband can watch the kids. Now that we have toddlers and less time, I don't have as much time for one-on-one stuff with the dogs, and I do a lot of multi-tasking with kids and dogs together. Also we have a large fenced yard, so if the dogs get rambunctious I can take them outside for ball chasing, tug, or flirt-pole chasing. 

I wouldn't blame you if you decide to wait a few years until your kids are in school...only you know what you can manage though.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

I have had GSD's my entire life. I have gotten new ones when my kids were born. Always puppies. 

Just get a good quality puppy from a great breeder. GSD's are easier to train than other dogs. They love kids, families and your home. Nothing like a German Shepherd. A puppy grows up with your situation and will adapt. You should be able to get one for $1500-$2000. 

I would be careful with a working line, they have a tendency to be a little more worked up and need a job. Go for a good show line, that sounds more like what you are looking for. As far as Florida, not much here in the south part as far as breeders. 

What part of Florida are you in?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

My advise to you is to meet each line and not read them on the internet. I did not want any gsd pups when I had little kids I just did not have time. If someone is insistent and has little kids still knowing the time effort needed they can make it can work if one is diligent about it. with the right pup it can work but they must know the time and energy the pup requires it is similar to bringing home a baby with sharp teeth lol and bionic energy. I found when my kids were older it was same amount of work but I had more time. Protective instincts are per individual dog. I purchased my american showline around 1,500. His prey drive and drives are strong and my kids who are older did not have much fun with him until he was about a year- he was just incredibly mouthy. They absolutely adore him now. I feel incredibly safe with him and is protective. Our female a wgsl very easy pup and very biddeable. I found some pup are a lot mouthier and rambunctious then others. If you do your homework right and be honest and truthful with the kind of pup you need to yourself then find a reputable breeder who match those needs it will work. If you are seeking to have a professional protection dog to train then you best wait to get an older dog as it is hard to say how a pup will turn out. With cats life would be easier with a pup that does not have a high prey drive. If the cats do not feel safe it can be a big challenge. Read the aggression section on this forum there are many stories about mismatched dogs and owners and owners who just do not have time time to provide outlets for the breed or people just make sure it does not become your reality. Even a great adolescent dog from a great breeder can provide a challenge before they become the dream dog.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

sebrench said:


> I just wrote a long response to this thread, the session timed out, and I lost everything, so I'll write a briefer version now. I have two GSDs and two children under 3. I work weekend nights and my husband works weekdays so someone is almost always home. We have fenced acreage to exercise the dogs if we can't take them out for some reason. Your experience could be different, but I don't think I could manage raising a GSD puppy with two toddlers unless I had a lot of childcare support (very involved grandparents or aunts, uncles, ect, who could provide lots of cheap or free babysitting).
> 
> I was very strategic about when I chose to bring the GSDs home. I got my first puppy and trained him before the baby was born, I got the second puppy and trained him when the baby was in an easier phase (around 7 months). I couldn't be any happier with the way my children and dogs get along. I think timing, substantial time invested in training, choosing good breeders, and perhaps a little good luck played a large role in that.
> 
> ...


gah, too bad about timing out! I always appreciate long responses and read them carefully.

We do have good child support system with grandparents (it's my mom who babysits when we work)

I certainly plan on classes/training when I have the pup. I understand it's not a take the dog once, and leave it alone until you see trainer again. You are given the lesson when you're with the trainer and your homework is to practice them everyday until you go to class again and given more training. (it's almost the training is for you, not the dog... this isn't like taking your kid to piano lessons lol). Just have to do some research on good trainers in my area. I'm pretty sure the lessons at petsmart is not going to work for me. I also don't like the treat driven training (at least not for a working dog) which I don't the generic trainers use. just my opinion.

We don't have a big yard, but we do have a yard (fenced in). it's enough for a dog to run back and forth in on the grass... we also have a huge open lot in my community I can go to.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

kr16 said:


> I have had GSD's my entire life. I have gotten new ones when my kids were born. Always puppies.
> 
> Just get a good quality puppy from a great breeder. GSD's are easier to train than other dogs. They love kids, families and your home. Nothing like a German Shepherd. A puppy grows up with your situation and will adapt. You should be able to get one for $1500-$2000.
> 
> ...


I did some research and found a few good ones. There is Von Grunenfeld from KY that several people have recommended here. Also a local one I liked here (in Seville, FL - Tatum Kennels) that has czech dogs.

I guess I'm shying away from american lines because I don't like what changed in the dogs. I like the original "design" of the dog.

I'm in West Palm Beach area


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

If you learn how to properly use food, it’s not a hinderance to a “working dog”, which you won’t have for several years anyway. For a puppy, especially one that’s food motivated... it can expedite things a lot in early training.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

razorseal said:


> gah, too bad about timing out! I always appreciate long responses and read them carefully.
> 
> We do have good child support system with grandparents (it's my mom who babysits when we work)
> 
> ...


Food rewards are a great way to shape behavoirs and train, especially early on and tugs/balls later for dogs with drives to use them. Use whatever works.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Fodder said:


> If you learn how to properly use food, it’s not a hinderance to a “working dog”, which you won’t have for several years anyway. For a puppy, especially one that’s food motivated... it can expedite things a lot in early training.


Doesn't this cause issues in the future though? When you want/need him to do something, and you have no treats? Doesn't it create a behavior that he better get a treat if he does something?


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

so another question for you guys.

I've been doing some reading on crating etc. There are several threads here talking about people crating puppies. Seems like rule is couple hours for a pup and as they grow, you can expand it. However there are many people that say "well, I work, so they stay in for 8 hours and there is nothing we can do about it". there are varying opinions on that on the threads. ANother suggestion I saw was, some people instead of crating the dog will put the dog in a bathroom or something and let it be it's "kennel" while they are gone. Dog has an area to play, an area if he has to go potty and more area to chill... How is this viewed?

I spoke with my wife, and she said she could take an hour lunch, come home to let the puppy out (if that's what we decide to get) and back in midday... my mom is also home, and I can nicely ask her if she could take the dog out once or twice while we're working too. I just don't know how willing she will considering she's afraid of bigger dogs and this thing will eventually grow (they have a maltese), but I think she'll be OK taking a puppy out in the back yard lol.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

razorseal said:


> Doesn't this cause issues in the future though? When you want/need him to do something, and you have no treats? Doesn't it create a behavior that he better get a treat if he does something?


Keywords: use food properly 

It’s not a bribe, it’s a reward... you eventually wean off of the food (it can also be brought back if necessary) but yes, a dog should still be rewarded - by food, by praise, by a tug, by a bite, a release, something... it’s training by motivation vs intimidation. The former is also more mentally stimulating.

But all in all, work with the dog in front of you... just like us, what one finds motivating, another may not. But your goals should be clear with both your breeder and trainer.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

razorseal said:


> Doesn't this cause issues in the future though? When you want/need him to do something, and you have no treats? Doesn't it create a behavior that he better get a treat if he does something?


It causes no issues whatsoever if you do it properly. You can wean them off treats every single time and use them occasionally. With most the stuff around the house and everyday things I never reward anymore and he still listens and performs the command quickly (ex. sitting at the door waiting until I get my shoes on, stay before I command you to jump out of the car, lay down) The one exceptional command is COME, I will always reward huge for come every single time. The nice thing i've found with my shepherds is a verbal reward means just as much to them as a food reward if not more, just a "good dog!" and a pat is enough to encourage him to do pretty much anything. These dogs are BRED to please! Some of the best schutzhund and protection trainers I know use food rewards all the time the key is that they also use other methods to proof. It is all about balance with these dogs. If you give them cookies for every little thing they will take a mile, if you are too hard on them they will shut down. Mine loves food, but he loves the ball even more.. so I save the ball for really amazing things like wow a herd of deer just walked in front of us and you're off leash and you didn't chase them, ball time! I will up the reward depending on the situation and phase out the reward for things less important or he has down 100%.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

razorseal said:


> so another question for you guys.
> 
> I've been doing some reading on crating etc. There are several threads here talking about people crating puppies. Seems like rule is couple hours for a pup and as they grow, you can expand it. However there are many people that say "well, I work, so they stay in for 8 hours and there is nothing we can do about it". there are varying opinions on that on the threads. ANother suggestion I saw was, some people instead of crating the dog will put the dog in a bathroom or something and let it be it's "kennel" while they are gone. Dog has an area to play, an area if he has to go potty and more area to chill... How is this viewed?


You have to read back stories, specifics and context. I can assure you that no one is leaving an 8 week old puppy in a crate for 8 hours a day...and if they are, they have failed to mention the messes, poor hygiene and bad habits they create. Personally I’m not an advocate of EVER allowing a healthy dog to relieve in the house - not on pee pads, litter boxes, designated areas, etc. I find it disgusting, wasteful and confusing to the dog once you decide to change the rules.

Rule of thumb is an hour for every month in age, but each dog is different. By 8 months (around when I acquired most of my dogs), they’ve been able to hold it 8hrs after a transition period of learning my schedule. I stop crating when they’re mature and trustworthy to get along and leave my stuff alone.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

I agree with what Fodder said, and would like to expand on every puppy is different. You will have to see what your puppy is like. My last two shepherds both took all of one day to potty train and they never had another accident inside until the day they died. My last one wasn't potty trained for a few months and I had to take him out potty literally every 15 minutes throughout the day. I set a 15 minute alarm on my phone, if I snoozed it for even 5 minutes there would be a puddle on the floor. For whatever reason his bladder control just wasn't that great lol. Absolutely invest in a good solid crate. By 4 months old mine was out free in the house and I never had to crate him when I left him home alone, he never destroyed or chewed on anything but I always meet his needs before I leave... I exercise him, let him potty, and leave him with a Kong toy stuffed with snacks to keep him entertained. Everyone is different also in how they prefer their dog to let them know they have to go.. some people make the dog hold it because they feel the dog should be "on their schedule" while others prefer a hint front the dog like nudging them or maybe barking at the door. I taught my guy to ring a set of sleigh bells on the front door when he needs to go potty, he had that down in just a few weeks after we brought him home and made things MUCH easier. Instead of setting the alarm on my phone he would let me know he had to go out... now that he is older he rarely rings the bells because his bladder is much bigger and I generally take him for a walk before he rings them ever. Remember when the puppy is awake, running around and active he will have to potty more frequently.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Food rewards are an excellent resource in training, especially hungry puppies. You do need a decent trainer to show you how not to make your dog dependant on the food.

My goal in training is not to remove all the rewards. Why would the dog want to work/cooperate/ etc? My goal is that the dog will perform consistently whether or not rewards are present. I want the same response if I have no food, no toys, no access to either, no training tools, and so on. That does not mean I will never use any of above again. It just means the dog can and will perform without them when the situation calls for it.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

We all feed our dogs, almost all of use play with our dogs, I hope we all pet our dogs. We can either hand it all out for nothing or deliver it as a reward to reinforce desired behavior. I use everything at my disposal, right down to something they want to go smell, as a reward for what I wanted them to do. They do eat meals and have play time with no strings attached also.

If you do it right they don't even know they are being manipulated, they just think you're awesome and want to do whatever you want because doing stuff with you is so fun


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

If you think you have time to train with all that you have going on, do this BEFORE adopting:

Go to class every week for a month and watch. Block out at least an hour on your phone for "work with the dog" and do yard work -- no kids, no spouse, you're blocked out. Get up and practice "walking the dog". Ask your spouse to practice blocking off dog time during the day too for dog stuff, and see if she really has any time. Same goes for her coming home for lunch -- it's a way to see how well it really works IRL with her job every day. If you can't successfully block off time every day before the dog comes -- without doing kid stuff -- you won't do any better once the dog comes. If it's easy to make it work in a practice month, you'll know you've really got the time.

I have NEVER yet seen a family with toddlers actually complete a 6 week training course and graduate. Not once. Neither has my trainer -- he knows he'll see them twice and never again when they sign up. Everybody always thinks they're the exception.

By the way, if you're a first responder, Companions for Heroes (a nonprofit) may cover 100% of the adoption fee of a rescue dog if you are pre-approved by Companions AND the rescue. We deal with them all the time, with veterans and first responder adopters, and they're lovely to work with on our end. They don't do this for breeder purchases -- only rescue dogs (but they do work with breed rescues, if the rescue is willing).


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You’re a police officer. Does your department have a K9 handler? If so, they may know local dog breeders and may also be able to help you if you have questions or need help with a dog or training.

Normally, I believe a dog should have only one handler in training, but if your mother is nearby and willing, get her involved with training from the time you bring the puppy home. She won’t be afraid of the dog as it grows and will have good control. If she can take the puppy out twice a day and your wife can come home at lunch, you should be covered. Introduce your dog to hers so your dog can spend time at their house if necessary.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Calipso said:


> I have good luck finding GSDs thru Craigslist. But you have to be patient. Check the conditions at the sellers place. Walk away from puppy mills. Also, I would only consider sellers that have both parents on-site so you can have a reasonable assurance that you're getting an actaul GSD and not a mix. Obviously, this is not without risks of getting cheated. So use care, ask questions, and look around.
> 
> My most recent GSD puppy is Gypsy which I found thru CL and she cost me $250. No papers or registration. But I have no intention of showing or breeding her, so that doesn't matter. The seller's site was clean and all the pups had their shots on schedule with vet's paperwork and they were clean and healthy. Also, the seller would not release the pups until they were 7 weeks old. Beware of sellers looking to unload pups younger than that. It's a sign they are more interested in the cash rather than the well being of the puppies.
> 
> Also, as has been pointed out, GSD puppies are notorious biters and their teeth are really sharp. Small kids may not appreciate the cuts and scrapes a GSD puppy will inflict when playing. They will draw blood. (Accidentally, of course.)


Please don't do this. At worst you could wind up with a nightmare at best you are promoting irresponsible breeding. 
I know that great dogs occasionally pop up out of nowhere. But for every good one there are whole litters that are not. Promoting bad breeding is a lose lose situation. Ever gsd with bad temperament tars the whole breed with that brush. And bad health leaves heartbreak and suffering in its wake. Better to take them from a rescue or shelter after the wanna be breeders have given up if you wish to gamble.


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Please don't do this. At worst you could wind up with a nightmare at best you are promoting irresponsible breeding.
> I know that great dogs occasionally pop up out of nowhere. But for every good one there are whole litters that are not. Promoting bad breeding is a lose lose situation. Ever gsd with bad temperament tars the whole breed with that brush. And bad health leaves heartbreak and suffering in its wake. Better to take them from a rescue or shelter after the wanna be breeders have given up if you wish to gamble.


I agree. We got a craigslist shepherd once and he had seizures, allergies, hot spots, nervy temperament , you name it and died at 6 years old.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

Okay honestly from all the immediate flak you got on this thread and how you haven't got angry at anyone yet and seem level headed, major things going for you there.

If I were in your shoes I highly recommend a nice showline gsd (west german showline) over a working line for your scenario...or a lowww drive working line. I know you can get a calmer working line but I feel like it just might be easier to find what you want in a show line. I have both.

Mine is an amazing family dog (though a handful when younger). Easier going than my working line, easier as a puppy, needs less exercise, level headed. She's super stable with everything but has an extremely territorial side when needed. Someone tried to get into my apartment when my husband was out of the country and she slept by that door all night after police were called. More people are actually afraid of her than my working line male. If it's rainy or cold she's happy to sit in my house doing nothing with me for multiple days. If I am feeling active she's happy to go everywhere too.

I point out the deterrent aspect because until you've been in the breed for awhile, you don't know if you really want to do protection. Protection is A LOT more than "casual bitework and bark work". It requires a lot of obedience first and foremost. Because this is your first dog, hold off on that plan. Most people want to feel like their dog will protect them and make them feel safe -- A nice, stable gsd is going to bark in most scenarios you need them to without any training. In the small handful of scenarios (3 or 4) where I have felt ACTUALLY threatened, my dogs have picked up on that and responded accordingly. 

Some working line breeders do breed to more of a pet-type clientele. I know a few that would possibly have what you're looking for, and I know a few showline breeders that actually produce nice dogs. Again, not American showline.


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

also just because you're new to the game...if anyone's dog they're trying to sell you is barking at you just on a walk or something, it's nervy. When I say good, stable dogs will bark when it's needed - it's not when you just pass random people or random dogs out and about. Almost all adolescent gsds I've seen around the 4-6 months range go through this punk phase where they bark at everything under the sun and so many people are like "look how protective!". No. A stable dog knows how to distinguish an actual threat vs stuff that happens in every day life and alot of people confuse either teenage punk behavior or nervousness as protective.

I just want to make sure we point that out because if you do look for an older dog, it's hard for a beginner to tell what's actual nerviness vs. a solid dog. You want neutral.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Fodder said:


> You have to read back stories, specifics and context. I can assure you that no one is leaving an 8 week old puppy in a crate for 8 hours a day...and if they are, they have failed to mention the messes, poor hygiene and bad habits they create. Personally I’m not an advocate of EVER allowing a healthy dog to relieve in the house - not on pee pads, litter boxes, designated areas, etc. I find it disgusting, wasteful and confusing to the dog once you decide to change the rules.
> 
> Rule of thumb is an hour for every month in age, but each dog is different. By 8 months (around when I acquired most of my dogs), they’ve been able to hold it 8hrs after a transition period of learning my schedule. I stop crating when they’re mature and trustworthy to get along and leave my stuff alone.


Wife plans on coming home during lunch to let the doggy out (whether a pup or not) and I will ask my mother who watches our kids to let the dog out too. 

so much work. It sure does sound like getting an infant and planning things out. lol

Do dogs count towards FMLA? LOL


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## Calipso (Jan 10, 2008)

Sabis mom said:


> Please don't do this. At worst you could wind up with a nightmare at best you are promoting irresponsible breeding.
> I know that great dogs occasionally pop up out of nowhere. But for every good one there are whole litters that are not. Promoting bad breeding is a lose lose situation. Ever gsd with bad temperament tars the whole breed with that brush. And bad health leaves heartbreak and suffering in its wake. Better to take them from a rescue or shelter after the wanna be breeders have given up if you wish to gamble.


I spent four months looking for GSD puppy on Craigslist before I finally found one. Gypsy has been an absolute joy. You can find gems on CL. But as I mentioned, due diligence is mandatory.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Calipso said:


> I spent four months looking for GSD puppy on Craigslist before I finally found one. Gypsy has been an absolute joy. You can find gems on CL. But as I mentioned, due diligence is mandatory.


And I am glad you have a nice dog. But what about the dozens of other pups this person has and will produce? Were these dogs health tested? Do you have any pedigree info? This is what people never understand. By purchasing one of these pups you just told the "breeder" that they can get money for puppies. And IF this particular puppy escapes the health "Russian roulette" there is no guarantee the others will. 
Shadow was one of 11. The rest are dead. As is mom and probably dad. I get the lifelong vet bill.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

razorseal said:


> Do dogs count towards FMLA? LOL


No, but they ought to! I've got two pups in rescue with $1000 GI infections. They're staying at the the vet for round the clock care. It's a lot like having a sick kid, when you can't take off work. (BTW, both were the last of unsold part of a litter that a local breeder didn't feel like continuing to put money into. Dumped at the city shelter. This is the dark side of those cheap breeders who advertise on CL and similar places.)

If you pay attention in the health forum, perfectly nice breeder-purchased pups eat all sorts of stuff they shouldn't and get blockages, or find other crazy ways to hurt themselves. I recommend that adopters either budget $200/mo (with the unspent part each month going into a dog savings account for big vet bills that pop up unexpectedly), or get good pet insurance and keep an open card with an available limit high enough to cover those bills while waiting for insurance reimbursement. Those four-figure emergency vet bills come out of nowhere, usually at the worst possible time.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I don’t know anything about AKC marketplace but it must be a step up from Craigslist. I thought quality breeders have enough word of mouth business that they don’t need to advertise, but that is an assumption, not based on fact but limited observation. I prefer to get dogs from breeders someone I know or respect has bought from before. Or someone online who has good first hand information and seems to be honest about it. I’ve gotten all my purebreds that way and have not been disappointed yet. If you want to set foot in the kennel, the best way to get a recommendation is to talk to local dog clubs and meet dogs from different breeders. Then visit the kennel in person. It’s tempting to want a dog for the summer, but it can take time to find the right one.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

razorseal said:


> I'm in West Palm Beach area



Von calvo in Miami Von Calvo German Shepherds | Puppies


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

kr16 said:


> Von calvo in Miami Von Calvo German Shepherds | Puppies


Just sent him an email.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

mego said:


> Okay honestly from all the immediate flak you got on this thread and how you haven't got angry at anyone yet and seem level headed, major things going for you there.
> 
> If I were in your shoes I highly recommend a nice showline gsd (west german showline) over a working line for your scenario...or a lowww drive working line. I know you can get a calmer working line but I feel like it just might be easier to find what you want in a show line. I have both.
> 
> ...


It's ok. Reminds me of other times when I came to a forum not really knowing much and getting harped down LOL. This is how I learn. I ask questions and my views change.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

razorseal said:


> Just sent him an email.


The second one you can message him on. 


https://www.facebook.com/voncalvogermanshepherdsinc/

https://www.facebook.com/voncalvo.germanshepherds?hc_location=ufi


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## Chuck94! (Feb 8, 2018)

razorseal said:


> ok guys, just be straight with me. You figured out who this really is and just decided as a group that you don't want me to get a GSD LOL.
> 
> I haven't heard a single reason why I should get one, everything has been NOT to get one. There has to be at least 1 or 2 reasons why it would be a good fit. pros and cons people!
> 
> :grin2:



The fact that you said you couldn't exercise your dog everyday is why you should NOT get a GSD puppy IMHO!


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Chuck94! said:


> The fact that you said you couldn't exercise your dog everyday is why you should NOT get a GSD puppy IMHO!


You need to catch up with 7 pages of this post :nerd:


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## Chuck94! (Feb 8, 2018)

razorseal said:


> You need to catch up with 7 pages of this post :nerd:


I have read all of them! Only other thing I want to say is there was like a 2-3 week period where I basically could not even pet my little guy because all he would do was bite! That was not fun and I constantly questioned my decision...BUT when it passed I was sooooooooooo happy lol


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## GandalfTheShepherd (May 1, 2017)

If you do get a high drive dog the exercise he needs will be more than just an on leash jog or walk twice a day. He will need off leash time hiking and exploring and a job to do to tire his brain as well as body. Off leash hiking in FL is tough because of the gators, wildboar, brain eating bacteria in the water, fleas & ticks, heat and leash laws. Honestly it's a pain in the summer exercising your dog unless you have a pool or beach nearby that allows dogs.


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## Genalis_mom (Mar 9, 2018)

Hi there!

I just had to respond on this thread because I have my first GSD pup AND I work in law enforcement. I have a strong advantage though, I have been a doggy person my whole life, though I have always had Dobermans and Mastiffs until Genali came along.

I have had some difficult dobes (mastiffs are a piece of cake), but I have never had a dog with drive like Genali. She is a BALL OF FIRE. Everything goes in the mouth.......rocks, socks, children........

I also have my 4 year old grandchild in the house as well. Never had I had a pup that LOVES to play with kids the way Genali does, the problem is that Genali often mistakes my grandchild as one of her toys and tries to treat her accordingly. Genali is learning appropriate people play skills through her training, but it is just as important, if not MORE important for me to be training my grandchild as well. Grandchild has some spunk, she is hot headed and stubborn (like her gammy, lol), so she is doing good. You'll need to teach your children not to cower from a rambunctious puppy. I make grandchild hold her ground when Genali gets too rough. I am teaching her how to appropriately correct the pup with a strong "NO" and then asking the pup to sit. It is working well.

You have gotten solid advice here, but I wanted to reiterate that exercise is KEY. A tired puppy is a good puppy. Make it fun....play fetch, just run and jump in the yard. I am having some pretty rough post operative pain so I can't do much right now. Yesterday, I exhausted my pup by filling up a kids wading pool with water and dropping ice cubes in it. Genali spend an hour in the water chasing those ice cubes with the kids. It doesn't have to be structured walks, just good hard playing counts.

GSD pups are not easy. Genali is the most challenging pup that I have ever had (but I am one to love a challenge so that's good for me). It is doable. It will take lots and lots and lots of patience, *consistency*, and you'll have to understand from the get-go that your pup may be smarter than you (Genali constantly amazes me with her intelligence). The WHOLE family needs to participate in her care and in her training. 

And, I'll tell you, after 12 hours of dealing with ....well, you know what we deal with........it is WONDERFUL to come home to wagging tail. Genali greets me at the door, squealing with excitement to see me and I can feel the weight of the day just fall off my shoulders. I have always had a strong connection with my dogs, and could always tell that my dogs loved me in their own way. But, again that is different with Genali........the attachment is different, she already "loves" stronger than any other pup I have ever had. She acts like the whole world revolves around me.


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Thanks guys, this post made me rethink what I expected in a dog, and honestly it excites me even more. I would love to go on hikes with family, or things with dog and family... It really excites me and the wife. I don't think I can compare toddlers and infants to a dog, but I would say we're doing a good job raising our 2 girls and 1 more in the house is not bad. For some reason, I had 2 girls and I didn't wanna try for a 3rd and hope it's a boy this time LOL. 

We saw a 6 month old from a Miami breeder that was mentioned here by 2 people. Sire is Ucar Von Bad-Boll and Dam is Venga von Jabora

We introduced the kids to the 6 month pup and you wouldn't believe the interaction they had. The dog loved our 2 year old. It was the funniest thing,he kept licking her face and wanting to play w her. She had enough of the face licking and pushed his snout away and he kept coming back for more licks lol. They fed the dog from their tiny palms and I even caught my young one trying to move his water closer to him when he was drinking it and he didn't care.

I shoulda gotten a video, but we were too busy watching them play. They got more time than I did haha. 

If you look at my 1st post here, I had an unattainable wish list. But highest priority was how the dog was with my kids. This one exceeded that and met many others. He is 6 months old, so not an adult like some recommended for my family but it won't be 8 week puppy stress. This one should be able to stay in crate little longer as well. Not sure how much harder training will be for a 6 month but that's for another forum here. He had little bit of training with sit/down etc, and he's used to the leash... He needs more work in that area, and also not potty trained. He was kenneled like most his dogs from what I can tell, so I will have to start working on potty training and crate training asap. I believe crate won't be too hard since he's used to a kennel.

My wife didn't appreciate the red rocket coming out that often when he was playing with us LOL she also didn't except a 6 month old to be this big already but loved the dog and how it interacted w our kids. He didn't have too much training for 6 month old dog I think, but I don't know... He had a trainer local to me I'll be able to work with. 

He seemed like he had a good drive too. Breeder had a stick with a chamois on it, and flung it around. He would chase it, bite it, tug it and shake his head. When he put the toy away, he started searching for the toy. Pretty sure that's a good thing lol. 

here is a picture I snapped after we did bunch of running around and he was little tired from it









I got a quick video hoping my kid would pet it again, it didn't work lol. I wish I got a video of him running around, but I was too busy asking questions and interacting with the dog and watching him play with the kids. He loved my little one. It was so funny (did I mention that? lol)


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Congrats!
Very pretty boy.
Did the breeder mention why he was held back / available at 6 months?


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

Fodder said:


> Congrats!
> Very pretty boy.
> Did the breeder mention why he was held back / available at 6 months?


I had a couple people ask me. I have to re-ask. I forget the reason for it. He did mention it, but I just can't remember among million other things I asked him. I did not remember what he answered me with concerning, but I'll find out when I call him again in a day or two.

He said he'll hold on to the dog for me without a deposit since we're going to Disney this weekend and I won't be able to attend to the dog for few days while we're gone. It's better if he stayed there. He told me he'll do his best to do some extra training with him for me next week.


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## Chuck94! (Feb 8, 2018)

Awesome man! I think that age will be perfect for you and your family! Seriously congrats!
Looking back at my first post to you on this thread --- I could have been more clear and nicer with my post! All I meant was I am NO EXPERT AT ALL, I got my guy at 8 weeks and he is around 5 months now..So I am as much of a novice as can be! But I know the insane amount of time I spent with my guy (Rollo), especially the first few weeks I had him. I am a senior in college, and at most I have 3 classes/per day, so I have tons of free time that the average person does not. Sorry for the long ramble..SUMMARY:
-Congrats on being a champ on this foum!
-Congrats on the 6 month old that hopefully will be your new family member!
-Baby puppy requires crazy amount of time that I was lucky enough to get at the right stage in my life!


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I wish you the best of luck! A 6 month old pup is SO much easier than an 8 wk old...

I think you may have stumbled into a great thing! Congratulations on your new family member!

Contrary to what you, and others, might have been thinking, I think it's a great thing when new people want to experience a GSD. There is no other breed like them, and once bitten, so to speak, you'll likely never be "okay" with another breed. They are exceptional!


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## razorseal (Apr 26, 2018)

tim_s_adams said:


> I wish you the best of luck! A 6 month old pup is SO much easier than an 8 wk old...
> 
> I think you may have stumbled into a great thing! Congratulations on your new family member!
> 
> Contrary to what you, and others, might have been thinking, I think it's a great thing when new people want to experience a GSD. There is no other breed like them, and once bitten, so to speak, you'll likely never be "okay" with another breed. They are exceptional!


I hear ya. I've been on many forums for a very very long time now. I understand the dynamics of it. Only enthusiasts come here to share their experience. Most is good advice and good knowledge, but it is still the internet. I take all the information here with a grain of salt. I make my final decision based on totality of information from forum users, breeders, trainers, etc. WHen I make a decision, it's mostly a good one. I took alot of advice here, but and applied it. I still have ton of learning to do.

Also funny I started paying attention to how people walk their dogs and stuff now. How they bark, why they bark etc. I'm already seeing what I learned and thinking how it can be corrected. I can tell many dog owners just have pets and really nothing else. 



Chuck94! said:


> Awesome man! I think that age will be perfect for you and your family! Seriously congrats!
> Looking back at my first post to you on this thread --- I could have been more clear and nicer with my post! All I meant was I am NO EXPERT AT ALL, I got my guy at 8 weeks and he is around 5 months now..So I am as much of a novice as can be! But I know the insane amount of time I spent with my guy (Rollo), especially the first few weeks I had him. I am a senior in college, and at most I have 3 classes/per day, so I have tons of free time that the average person does not. Sorry for the long ramble..SUMMARY:
> -Congrats on being a champ on this foum!
> -Congrats on the 6 month old that hopefully will be your new family member!
> -Baby puppy requires crazy amount of time that I was lucky enough to get at the right stage in my life!


Thanks brother! I'm a pretty goal aimed person and usually succeed at things I'm very interested in. I'm pretty sure this is going to be a fun time with ton of questions here and right guidance. I'll have to slow down on some of my other hobbies as this is going to cost us some extra money now lol. I truly do believe we're going to have a very good smart dog.


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## Chuck94! (Feb 8, 2018)

I hear ya @razorseal about slowing down on some hobbies...I have had to cut down my lifting a little bit but soo worth it haha


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

razorseal said:


> Doesn't this cause issues in the future though? When you want/need him to do something, and you have no treats? Doesn't it create a behavior that he better get a treat if he does something?


No. There is a difference between using food to lure the behavior and using the food as a reward, think pay check. In the beginning, yes, the food is used to lure the dog, but eventually the dog is asked for the behavior and receives and is paid for doing the behavior (whether as food, toy, play.....) and then is paid for doing a long line of behaviors. 

With my puppies I use a lure for many things, but that is faded out over time and then randomized. I also have exercises I do where the puppy is paid after they offer me the behavior I am looking for. Takes a bit more patience, but teaches them to think on their own too.


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