# My dog hunts and kills.



## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

I have a 1 year old GSD mix. She has very high prey drive. She is fast and intense when it comes to little animals. Today when I was at work she killed a baby bunny that was under our deck. My husband is so up set with it and he feels that she is out to kill. He wants to get rid of her for it. 

My husband took cookie out for a run. He let her off leash and she was not listening to him well. Well he does not do anything with her he NEVER does training with her. So why would she listen. She is good with me great off leash. I wish my husband would take the time to work with cookie I have asked him to do traning with me said that's your thing. Grrrrr. 

What do you do with a dog that as my husband out it "has a taste for blood" I have been working a lot these past days and have not been working with her as much as I should. I feel that is part of the reson we are having issues. I will go back to running her everyday again. 

What do you do when your dog is a killer. We have a 3 year old daughter and do not want her seeing cookie kill something. What can we do.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Doesn't sound like hubby understands the breed. My boys, especially Bailey, would totally go after a bunny. Or a squirrel. Or whatever animal that ventured into the yard. He just would. If it ran, he'd chase it. That's what he loves to do.

I wouldn't let hubby take dog offleash. 

Explain to him as best you can that it isn't about a taste for blood so much as the desire to chase it down.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Prey drive is completely normal. It's too bad she killed a baby bunny, but that doesn't mean "she's out for blood". She's just doing what comes natural to her. I'm sure she's not going around chasing little kids and trying to kill them, right? It's a prey thing.

Does your husband know much about dogs? If he wants the dog to listen to him, he's going to have to form a bond with her. I wouldn't expect my dog to listen to every command she knows from just anyone, especially without any incentive, even if she's familiar with them. Training isn't just about training a dog that saying X means to do Y. It's about working as a team. If he really wants her to listen, he's going to have to put in some work too.

And a little off topic, but if your dog has prey drive, try building a flirt pole for her. It could help her let out some of that prey drive steam on something she can't actually kill. It might help tone things down a bit with her.


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## Wetdog (May 23, 2001)

Besides German Shepherds, I also have done Weimaraners. Take my word for it----even the highest drive GSDs don't even come near a high drive, bred to field Weim.

Even the HIGHEST drive dogs can learn what and when to hunt. Training trumps. I don't know how many times I've had people tell me that you can't train out inherently genetic drives----when my dogs are right there doing it in front of them, even people who should know better. With the right training, you can call off a hunt in mid stride.

I could do it with any of my dogs----Weims included. But you MUST do the training. And you MUST use it, everyday. This will give you positive control, off leash, no matter what the situation. 

------" 
And a little off topic, but if your dog has prey drive, try building a flirt pole for her. It could help her let out some of that prey drive steam on something she can't actually kill. It might help tone things down a bit with her. "--------

Not a bad suggestion----however, she already knows HOW to hunt----you need to work with her on positive control over what and when she hunts.

Dogs are predators----you need to let them hunt---but you also need to have control over what and when they hunt. This is true of all breeds, hunting or not, from Chihuahua to Great Dane.

PM me if you want an outline of an obedience course that you can use to give you positive control in all situations. Both you and your husband need to do the course with your girl if you want results. There are no shortcuts.

I have a Weimaraner puppy coming in Sept.----but like all my dogs, the first thing he'll learn is that I call the shots about when and what he hunts. All working field dogs have to learn that----they are no use at all as a hunter if they ruin the hunts by bolting, not staying steady to shot, or failure to retrieve.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

My husband does not understand dogs that well. He got his first dog a Pom mix when he was in his late 20s before I met him. His dog is far far from perfect. I have been working on fixing the problems he let build into issues. Like barking at every stranger he saw. Not letting people in the house. Running up to strangers barking and even nipping. He is much better now. But he still runs up to strange dogs barking like a little jerk that's why I always keep him on leash. 

I try and tell my husband I need his help with training the dog. If we want her to be the perfect dog. He kind of gets it. I am going to start really tightening up on cookies training bring the bar up. I am going to really work on focus an no messing around. Good enough is not good enough. I am going to look for a trainer to work with too. My husband needs to be more involved in cookies training. I have seen improvement were he sees her getting worst. Well he has been doing less with her so it makes sense. We have only had cookie 9 months. She is still young a little over a year now. She is still learning what we want from her. I know it takes time.

We do lots of frisbee and that helps burn off a bit of the need to chase. She has become really good at frisbee. She jumps and catches it watches for it really focuses. She is fast becoming a great frisbee dog. I love it. 

I am just stressed out because my husband is so upset over this animal killing thing. I tried to tell him that most dogs would have done what cookie did. He does no believe me.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

killing a rabbit, squirriel, field mouse, bird, etc is natural.
your husband needs to be more involved with the dogs
training.


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

She is not a "killer" at all. she would have treated the bunny just like any other fast moving toy. Run, grab, shake - unfortunately bunnies don't survive that kind of treatment.
She wasn't sitting there "plotting" to kill the bunny in a nasty vishous blood rage - dogs don't think that way.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Maybe if you explained it to your husband that it's no different that a cat going after a bird, it would help him understand. Not all dogs do it, but it is something that's very instinctual.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I will say the first time you see your fur baby shake & kill a small animal it's kind of shocking. My boy also got ahold of a baby bunny. 

But prey drive is higher in some...I can tell you my boy enjoyed the deed HOWEVER the neighborhood children & the raw food my neighbor throws on his grill are safe! lol

I certainly hope your husband sees the logic to this...they are animals. But also training a good leave it, out, stay, down is also important.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I had this concern with mine in the beginning because of all the things I read. When mine was about 4 months I had to babysit my sisters rabbit and did so for about 3 months. I took that opportunity to train the puppy not to chase/hurt the rabbit. She was able to associate the inside rabbit with the outside rabbits rather quickly and now when we go outside, they can run right past her and she doesn't even look twice. I did this with a huge turtle I found crossing the road too, not that we should be seeing an abundance of turtles in the area any time soon I would think that maybe the best kind of training would be somewhere she can see these things, but can't get to them and is taught that its not allowed--a pet store maybe?


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Try living with 3 terriers, they have off the chart prey drive and literally will kill anything they can catch, they even try to climb the tree trunks when the crows land in the trees, they're dogs and bred to hunt and kill, my terriers had a rat trapped behind a stall door and it bolted and almost got away except for the fact that it ran right into the path of my........CHIHUAHUA who promptly grabbed it shook it and killed it, I don't see how anyone would expect a dog to not kill a bunny in the yard, at my house they are simply snacks, I always laugh when people come to my house and say how my Shepherds are killers when in actuality the cute little shaggy faced ones are the actual death squad elite, they kill FAR more critters than them! I can't imagine any dog not killing bunnies in the yard, they would have to be the exception not the rule, God knows I've never owned one!


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

She is not a killer, she is doing what she is biologically driven to do. There is no reason to get rid of her, especially over that.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I personally do not understand the horror. We live on 5 acres and are overrun with bunnies and other small critters this year. They eat any garden stuffs we try to grow, the are munching on everything. Ugh! My 10 year old shepherd is too old to catch them anymore but he still half heartedly tries. My new puppy hasn't figured out how to catch them yet, but hopefully it won't be long. There was a news article in the local paper just yesterday saying how the abundance of small fuzzy critters is leading to a rise in rattlesnakes this year. I want the small furry critters gone. If anyone has dogs they want to train to kill these annoying pests they are more than welcome to come let them run in my yard.  High prey drive is a plus in my book.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Pepper311 said:


> I tried to tell him that most dogs would have done what cookie did. He does no believe me.


This very true. Most dogs, if given the chance, would have done exactly what your dog did. My golden killed a nest of baby bunnies once, and he and the mamma bunny had this weird thing going on for years where she would come into the yard, he would chase her until he tired out and then it would start over again the next day. Dogs chase things, and if they catch them sometimes they kill them. He wouldn't expect a cat not to try and catch mice, it's the same for dogs only they can get bigger prey sometimes.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Courtney said:


> *I will say the first time you see your fur baby shake & kill a small animal it's kind of shocking*. My boy also got ahold of a baby bunny. ..................................


 
*Ain't that the big truth! *

Should have seen the first time our 2yo female GSD got into a tussle with an adult Racoon in the back yard in front of our 10yo son! There was a lot of noise and fur flying when they tangled.

My son later told me with a lot of awe in his voice - "Dad, Abby was like a wild animal!".

Fortunately no real harm was done to either animal - a little bit of blood (racoon) on our dog was all.

But I will say that he seemed to play with her more cautiosly for a few weeks afterward till he realized that she was still his loving, playful, friendly playmate!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I personally do not understand the horror. We live on 5 acres and are overrun with bunnies and other small critters this year. They eat any garden stuffs we try to grow, the are munching on everything.


Because its a part of nature and nature is beautiful. Those small creatures lived here way before people did and we are in their space. They are only surviving on their instinct. I don't think that they are eating the stuff in your garden to get you mad...its what they do As part of nature there is also a food chain and everything takes care of itself. IMO instead of killing them people need to learn to live with them or move to the city. I would be horrified if any of my dogs tried to kill a bunny or squirrel. Last year my oldest dog led me to a hole with a bunch of baby bunnies that were drowning(it was raining very hard), she continued to paw one that wasn't breathing and it must have been in the right spot because it started to breathe. I am VERY proud that she chose to save them and not kill them.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Rayden will kill and eat a wild bunny in a heartbeat. He's getting too old to catch them, but does love him a good fresh bunny snack.
He's not out for blood, though. And he is very trustworthy around small animals he is introduced too.









Show this to your husband to prove that killing a wild bunny does NOT equal a bloodthirsty monster


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Because its a part of nature and nature is beautiful. Those small creatures lived here way before people did and we are in their space. They are only surviving on their instinct. I don't think that they are eating the stuff in your garden to get you mad...its what they do As part of nature there is also a food chain and everything takes care of itself. IMO instead of killing them people need to learn to live with them or move to the city. I would be horrified if any of my dogs tried to kill a bunny or squirrel. Last year my oldest dog led me to a hole with a bunch of baby bunnies that were drowning(it was raining very hard), she continued to paw one that wasn't breathing and it must have been in the right spot because it started to breathe. I am VERY proud that she chose to save them and not kill them.


Nature is harsh and we are top of the food chain. Bunnies are not cute they are nasty little rodents that bring sickness. They rank right up there with rattlesnakes and other nasties in the yard. Yes bunnies eat my plants because it is instinct but dogs kill bunnies also because it is instinct. My dogs get praised and treats for it. I'm not going to apologize for that. I also am not going to move to a city. I have lived in the country most of my life and understand that the constant battle with bunnies and other critters are part of nature. I am not teaching my dogs to be killers, just allowing them to do what comes natural. They also come inside and are just fine with kids and people.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> Rayden will kill and eat a wild bunny in a heartbeat. He's getting too old to catch them, but does love him a good fresh bunny snack.
> He's not out for blood, though. And he is very trustworthy around small animals he is introduced too.
> 
> 
> ...


Aww beautiful dog.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

gosh, where do people get these ideas...prey drive is instinct for pete's sake. cash went after a bunny the other day, caught it and brought it to mom with a look of expectation of praise on his face. laid it at my feet and looked up as if to say "mom, LOOK what i brought you". not a drop of blood or injury on it. apparently tho he just scared it to death, literally.

PLEASE don't allow your husband to guilt you into getting rid of your dog. your husband has a wrong idea in his head. for whatever reason he is really misinterpreting this issue.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks guys. I am going to have him read some of this. 

We had a gopher in the yard when cookie was 6 months I found her with it dead. I was shocked but not upset. I remember saying "oh my god" many times. I told cookie "leave it" then picked it up and threw it away. When I told my husband then that she got the annoying gopher he was happy. I think he might be more mad at cookie right now because she is not listening to him as well any more. He needs to start working with her. 

Don't worry no way in **** I would rehome her because she killed a bunny.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

I taught the old GSD I have to leave wildlife alone (and the one I had before him). Worst he does it chase deer out of the yard, then comes right back (doesn't pursue them into the woods). But I did have to teach him that critters were off-limits. Now my young one - she goes ballistic over every little critter. She bites bees, slobbers all over the windows when squirrels, rabbits, birds, you name it are in the yard. Almost drug me over the creek the other day over a squirrel. I live in the country so wildlife is virtually EVERYWHERE. "Leave it" and "stay" are becoming top priorities, but everything with the young dog is a lot of work. If your dog is otherwise stable, you should be able to train it to leave wildlife alone or ignore them.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> I taught the old GSD I have to leave wildlife alone (and the one I had before him). Worst he does it chase deer out of the yard, then comes right back (doesn't pursue them into the woods). But I did have to teach him that critters were off-limits. Now my young one - she goes ballistic over every little critter. She bites bees, slobbers all over the windows when squirrels, rabbits, birds, you name it are in the yard. Almost drug me over the creek the other day over a squirrel. I live in the country so wildlife is virtually EVERYWHERE. "Leave it" and "stay" are becoming top priorities, but everything with the young dog is a lot of work. If your dog is otherwise stable, you should be able to train it to leave wildlife alone or ignore them.


On leash walks she will look at rabbits but no longer lunges or acts crazy. I say leave it and she knows to walk on by. It's off leash that we really need to work on not running after everything. I am going to work on a STOP command that I can use if I see her about to run I can yell STOP and she will stop. That would help.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Pepper311 said:


> On leash walks she will look at rabbits but no longer lunges or acts crazy. I say leave it and she knows to walk on by. It's off leash that we really need to work on not running after everything. I am going to work on a STOP command that I can use if I see her about to run I can yell STOP and she will stop. That would help.


Search around for how to train an emergency stop, I know there are probably youtube vids or websites that have info on it. The other thing that sometimes works is a moving down command. It sounds to me like you are already doing pretty well with her.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Because its a part of nature and nature is beautiful. Those small creatures lived here way before people did and we are in their space. They are only surviving on their instinct. I don't think that they are eating the stuff in your garden to get you mad...its what they do As part of nature there is also a food chain and everything takes care of itself. IMO instead of killing them people need to learn to live with them or move to the city. I would be horrified if any of my dogs tried to kill a bunny or squirrel. Last year my oldest dog led me to a hole with a bunch of baby bunnies that were drowning(it was raining very hard), she continued to paw one that wasn't breathing and it must have been in the right spot because it started to breathe. I am VERY proud that she chose to save them and not kill them.


Philosophical difference. See, I don't think we're in their space. We're part of nature, too (and this comes from someone who pretty much leaves about 27 wooded acres to wildlife out of my 30). I don't see us as some separate invading species from another planet. We are part of that food chain and so are our dogs. If you think about, the species of man is the ONLY species on earth that attempts to save another species from extinction, simply because we see beauty in it. I was reading a thread on another forum about eastern coyotes and the increasing attacks on humans and domestic animals, when someone wrote, "They were here first." Well, actually, no they weren't. They are a new evolution of a cross between coyotes and wolves that have moved into the eastern U.S. And even if they were here first, I'm certainly not going to stand by and watch them rip my dog up. Coyotes are going into cities and suburbs, some types of birds even create problems in cities (histoplasmosis from droppings), rabbits are common in suburbs. I even saw a wild turkey on a fence in the city when I was visiting my mom. 

Canines like to chase and eat little furries. Period. I train my dogs not to chase wildlife, not just for the protection of the wildlife, but for their own protection. I lost a dog to a freakin' groundhog once! No joke. 

I put my money where my mouth is and bought some land years ago and I protect it. I woke up this morning to 4 Canada geese in my yard by the pond, with 3 babies waddling behind one pair, a muskrat behind the garage that ran into the spring, at least six rabbits in my yard and a crazy squirrel that brought friends from the woods to eat my pepper plants. Last night, deer were in my front yard, coming out of the edge of the woods. The deer in my area are healthy because they are hunted. In places where they are not, they are the size of dogs and my guess is chronic wasting disease is nature's way of thinning the herd because we are not doing it anymore. Kentucky now has a higher deer population than it did when Daniel Boone arrived. 

I see us as just another part of the equation.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> Philosophical difference. See, I don't think we're in their space. We're part of nature, too (and this comes from someone who pretty much leaves about 27 wooded acres to wildlife out of my 30). I don't see us as some separate invading species from another planet. We are part of that food chain and so are our dogs. If you think about, the species of man is the ONLY species on earth that attempts to save another species from extinction, simply because we see beauty in it. I was reading a thread on another forum about eastern coyotes and the increasing attacks on humans and domestic animals, when someone wrote, "They were here first." Well, actually, no they weren't. They are a new evolution of a cross between coyotes and wolves that have moved into the eastern U.S. And even if they were here first, I'm certainly not going to stand by and watch them rip my dog up. Coyotes are going into cities and suburbs, some types of birds even create problems in cities (histoplasmosis from droppings), rabbits are common in suburbs. I even saw a wild turkey on a fence in the city when I was visiting my mom.
> 
> Canines like to chase and eat little furries. Period. I train my dogs not to chase wildlife, not just for the protection of the wildlife, but for their own protection. I lost a dog to a freakin' groundhog once! No joke.
> 
> ...


When I said they were on the land first I meant that literally. They lived there, someone came in and built a home and took over their home. We (the people) come in and take away the natural habitat that has been there for years before we came and then we expect the little creatures to just cave in and leave? IMO its just easier to preserve nature and not kill it off. I'm not saying that dogs don't chase little furry things, but I also don't think that a normal household pet is part of the chain and should eat those little furry things. They were taken out of that chain once they were domesticated and get two meals a day by humans. A coyote, a wolf, yes those are part of the chain and probably the highest in the chain where I live. The bunnies are the lowest on the chain


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> When I said they were on the land first I meant that literally. They lived there, someone came in and built a home and took over their home. We (the people) come in and take away the natural habitat that has been there for years before we came and then we expect the little creatures to just cave in and leave? IMO its just easier to preserve nature and not kill it off. I'm not saying that dogs don't chase little furry things, but I also don't think that a normal household pet is part of the chain and should eat those little furry things. They were taken out of that chain once they were domesticated and get two meals a day by humans. A coyote, a wolf, yes those are part of the chain and probably the highest in the chain where I live. The bunnies are the lowest on the chain


As Kentucky GSD lover said "Philosophical difference." My house is 100 + years old. Parts of it were built in the early 1900's. It is not like we just moved out to the country and started building in a wildlife area. When we've planted a garden (we decided not to this year) we've planted things like tomatos, peppers, broccoli.... etc. Things that we eat. So the way I see it my dogs are protecting my yard and our food supply. That is their job and I'm going to encourage it 100%. Whatever comes inside of our fence is fair game. As you can see from this picture it's not like the wildlife in the area are crowed out by people. They have acres and acres of desert to live in.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

As for wildlife living with it blah blah blah. Our neighborhood has become over run with rabbits. All the neighbors have said that the rabbit population is really high this year. I guess the coyotes are not doing there job so my dog is helping keep the population in check. 

Anyways I thinking raising the bar on cookies training and getting my husband involved will help our problem. My daughter loves doing dog training with me. She is 3 and the dogs will listen to her. Not perfectly but pretty good for her only being 3.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

llombardo said:


> When I said they were on the land first I meant that literally. They lived there, someone came in and built a home and took over their home. We (the people) come in and take away the natural habitat that has been there for years before we came and then we expect the little creatures to just cave in and leave? IMO its just easier to preserve nature and not kill it off. I'm not saying that dogs don't chase little furry things, but I also don't think that a normal household pet is part of the chain and should eat those little furry things. They were taken out of that chain once they were domesticated and get two meals a day by humans. A coyote, a wolf, yes those are part of the chain and probably the highest in the chain where I live. The bunnies are the lowest on the chain


This is really weird. Every home that any of us live in was at one time part of nature. All of our cities were part of nature until somebody built them up.
The American Indians had a good thing going until we all showed up.
So what is your solution.
Some of these threads get really weird.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Jack's Dad said:


> Some of these threads get really weird.


Hehe, check this one out.... 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ven-my-weapon-upcoming-zombie-apocalypse.html


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have the most loveable fluffball of a dog ever and he's *accidentally* killed multiple baby rabbits. Why the mother made a nest INside the fenced dog area of my yard I don't know but talk about a Darwin award!

Baby rabbits are like the perfect prey animal. They are slow, their moms apparently put them in harm's way, there are always hundreds of them around because they breed like, well, rabbits. I fail to see how your husband can blame this on the poor dog and be serious...


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I have the most loveable fluffball of a dog ever and he's *accidentally* killed multiple baby rabbits. Why the mother made a nest INside the fenced dog area of my yard I don't know but talk about a Darwin award!
> 
> Baby rabbits are like the perfect prey animal. They are slow, their moms apparently put them in harm's way, there are always hundreds of them around because they breed like, well, rabbits. I fail to see how your husband can blame this on the poor dog and be serious...


Thank you, That's what I am saying. The stupid rabbit should know not to have a family in a yard with 3 dogs that are around all the time. 

I think my husband was really more upset over the fact the dog does not listen to him as well any more. She is focused on finding little animals when out in a meadow. So we need to do more training.

This morning cookie found another bunny but did not kill it. I even saw it move in the bush she could have got it. Then I saw the adult in the front yard.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm having the same problem right now. There are chipmunks that moved in underneath our shed and one of my dogs is obsessed with them. He can't get at them but will just stand there with his nose pointed at the shed and sometimes whine. I'd like to smoke or flood them out and close off their hole so they move somewhere else.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i want to see the video and i might not believe it then. this
kind of story only happens in Disney movies. :laugh:



llombardo said:


> >>>>> Last year my oldest dog led me to a hole with a bunch of baby bunnies that were drowning(it was raining very hard),
> 
> >>> she continued to paw one that wasn't breathing and it must have been in the right spot because it started to breathe.<<<<
> 
> I am VERY proud that she chose to save them and not kill them.<<<< [/QUOTE]


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i want to see the video and i might not believe it then. this
> kind of story only happens in Disney movies. :laugh:
> 
> 
> ...


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

There you go again doggiedad making me chuckle


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

shepherdmom said:


> Nature is harsh and we are top of the food chain. Bunnies are not cute they are nasty little rodents that bring sickness. They rank right up there with rattlesnakes and other nasties in the yard. Yes bunnies eat my plants because it is instinct but dogs kill bunnies also because it is instinct. My dogs get praised and treats for it. I'm not going to apologize for that. I also am not going to move to a city. I have lived in the country most of my life and understand that the constant battle with bunnies and other critters are part of nature. I am not teaching my dogs to be killers, just allowing them to do what comes natural. They also come inside and are just fine with kids and people.


 
How would you feel about a wolf also "doing what comes naturally" and killing your dog while it was chasing and killing the rabbit? Or how about just a bigger stronger dog killing your dog and then hearing it's owner praising him for it?

Bunnies = rattlesnakes? WOW, you must have some really nasty bunnies where you live. I have NEVER heard of any bunny anywhere killing a human!!!!!!


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

My 24 toed cat kills weasels and bring them to us whole. Lays them on the porch for us to see. He kills and eats anything he can catch, except the weasels. He just brings them home.
Bernese Mountain dogs are the most loveable sweet dogs, however, they will be glad to kill and pluck and eat a chicken in a few minutes. My best friends Berners will chase and kill her goats if they get a chance to get them. Yet, they will smooch the cats to death, and other dogs.
Its the "its running, I'm gonna chase it, grab it and play with it.".. Usually a quick snap and whatever is in their mouths is dead.
Your girl is doing nothing wrong, just being a typical dog.
Speaking of Wolves, there are family dogs being killed in their yards in Jackson Hole close to where I live. The wolves were down in the town during winter/spring and since they have killed most the elk/antelop/buffalo in Yellowstone, they are now killing dogs... Fish and Game are "watching" them closely.
Sure wish they would make is possible to shoot these nasty critters, they will be pulling down cattle and horses before long, we already have them in the valley and mountains by our house.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Just nature, according to some folks!


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

I wouldn't worry too much long as you set clear boundaries on what is not ok to chase. Freyja loves catching and eating small rodents. At 6 months she caught and killed a squirrel. Despite all this, she would carry my cat Panzer to me and ignores Bevin. She even layes down when the chickens wander around her. She has a high prey drive but respects the limits I set. Long as you set the limits and they are respected, I wouldn't worry too much. 

I also had a collie which killed cats, snakes and rodents with lightening speed. Yet once we accepted an animal he knew he couldn't touch it. We even would let our rabbits and "Buddy" the squirrel, ride him with no problems.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I think people can sometimes forget that our dogs still have certain instincts. They can certainly be controlled,but never eliminated. Our Cattle Dog Saba has caught a few squirrels and doesn't hesitate to chase a rabbit if she's allowed.Looking at her though most people wouldn't think it. The perception most of the time is that a dog who is cute,can't possibly kill another animal.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

codmaster said:


> How would you feel about a wolf also "doing what comes naturally" and killing your dog while it was chasing and killing the rabbit? Or how about just a bigger stronger dog killing your dog and then hearing it's owner praising him for it?
> 
> Bunnies = rattlesnakes? WOW, you must have some really nasty bunnies where you live. I have NEVER heard of any bunny anywhere killing a human!!!!!!


If my dog is out where a wolf can kill him then that would be my fault wouldn't it? Same with a bigger stronger dog, if I couldn't protect my dog, though I'm pretty sure I could. 

Regarding: Bunnies = rattlesnakes they are both pests in my yard. Bunnies carry Tularemia among other nasties. Rattlesnakes are probably less of a pest but baby bunnies and other small fuzzies attract the rattlesnakes.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Just nature, according to some folks!


 We are top dogs. They start messing with us to much and I imagine they will change the laws to allow us to shoot them again.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Update:
Well today I call the bunny Massacre. The death toll is at 5 now. There was a whole family of bunnies under my deck. Stupid Rabits making a home in a yard where there are 3 dogs. 

I get a call from my husband telling me 4 more bunnies were found dead. This is how it went down. My inlaws were baby sitting my daughter. My father inlaw goes out and finds Cookie with a baby bunny in her mouth. he said "drop it" she did. He took care of that. He goes back out and finds our old dog meatball with a bunny. Meat does not want to drop it. So my father inlaw had to open meatballs mouth and get it out. Then later my 3 year old daughter is holding a dead bunny. My father inlaw freaked out told her to drop it. My poor daughter started crying mostly because she got yelled at. And the 4th bunny was found just dead no dogs near it. I was at work this whole time. 

My 3 year old has sadly already had to deal with the death of 2 pets. She has seen nature shows with me. She saw my pet bird dead. So at the young age of 3 she already kind of understands it. So I hope now we can all get back to our lives and try and forget about the bunny Massacre . 

My husband now sees that this is what dogs do and has forgiven cookie. He talked to some friends that are dogs owners. Our friends told him about how Thier dogs kill birds in mid flight. Hd also agreed to joining me in training cookie more. Yes sadly 5 bunnies are dead but we as a family have worked threw it. 

I hope this does not happen next spring.

Thank you for all the support.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

my husband and i constantly wonder WHY these bunnies continue to make their home in our totally fenced-in yard where there are four large dogs coming and going. last night when they went out they RUSHED over to a tree in the side of the yard and there were three baby racoons up in the tree. great, just GREAT. i think '***** can do more damage to the dogs than bunnies.

well, that's just life. we all have to somehow co-exist. mother earth belongs to everyone, man and animal alike...but there is a pecking order and those bunny mothers seem to be slow in getting the picture.

glad to know your dh is understanding better now that this isn't cookie's fault.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

katieliz said:


> my husband and i constantly wonder WHY these bunnies continue to make their home in our totally fenced-in yard where there are four large dogs coming and going.


Yep, same here. We have massive flower gardens in the front yard yet the rabbits want to come in a yard patrolled by 3 Mals and a Dutchie...the other side of the yard has 2 Rottweilers on patrol.

One day the Mals had a 3-way tug on a rabbit; Bree ripped the head off and ate it; Nyka got a leg/thigh; Bodie got the torso and three legs.

Raw diet in it's purest form.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i want to see the video and i might not believe it then. this
> kind of story only happens in Disney movies. :laugh:
> 
> quote=llombardo;2497006]
> ...


Oh, I believe it. My old GSD, Buddy, has the above personality. He is so tuned into humans that he comes and gets me to make decisions about wildlife. Though he will sometimes have fun with a short chase (showing off for Rey has seemed to restart this), he stops there, turns around and comes back, and has never killed anything. When I had a diabetic cat, Buddy would herd me to him when something was wrong (blood sugar too low), and 9 times out of 10 he was right to do so. He has also alerted me to injured wildlife which enabled me to save bluebirds and wild ducklings through DNR rehabbers. Now the beagle I had that lived to a ripe old age - no way I could stop her from eating rabbits, no matter what I did, because that is exactly what beagles are bred to do. The difference with a GSD is choosing whether to allow/train to rid your garden of critters or training not to, and how strong their prey drive vs. need to please humans is. This young GSD I have (Rey) is very prey-driven. My first GSD, Bear, killed a bobwhite quail once and got in a lot of trouble (never did it again!). I understand why people allow their dogs to protect their yard/garden area. My preference is to train to alert me to make decisions, though. How difficult that is depends on the dog, but there are dogs that will protect wild creatures like llombardo describes. Again, I partly do what I do for the dog's own good, so it doesn't tangle with the wrong critter, and because I don't want my dogs going after wild goslings, etc. But chasing critters does come natural to most canines.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

katieliz said:


> my husband and i constantly wonder WHY these bunnies continue to make their home in our totally fenced-in yard where there are four large dogs coming and going. last night when they went out they RUSHED over to a tree in the side of the yard and there were three baby racoons up in the tree. great, just GREAT. i think '***** can do more damage to the dogs than bunnies.
> 
> well, that's just life. we all have to somehow co-exist. mother earth belongs to everyone, man and animal alike...but there is a pecking order and those bunny mothers seem to be slow in getting the picture.
> 
> glad to know your dh is understanding better now that this isn't cookie's fault.


Rabbits do tend to nest in some weird places! A friend of mine has a privacy fence of about an acre, across the road is hundreds of acres of fields, yet rabbits nest in her mowed, fenced yard where two dogs roam regularly, and her lab/chow mix loves to eat them. Go figure. They reproduce at a high rate because they are nature's bottom dwellers of the food chain for carnivores. I sometimes wonder if I have created my own coyote problem with springs on both sides of my house that have dense cover around them where rabbits nest in profusion, and get some protection from me shooting to ward off coyotes. However, most disappear mid summer, as Mr. Redtail Hawk does not fear me at all and will swoop down right in front me to snatch a bunny up!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

You should be here, when adopters come visit and find a mouse carcass or the head off a ground squirrel.
Our cat has become a master butcher and can decapitate, slice and dice, and disembowel with great artistry.

On that note, why do we accept vermin killing from cats yet not dogs? Granted, most of us don't consider rabbits vermin but I'm sure they can carry mange, fleas and the like.

I would never encourage our dogs to kill things - but if/when they do, and they have, I don't consider it a death sentence for the dog. 

The main thing to keep in mind is the law generally sees dogs killing _domesticated _animals (chickens, cats, pet rabbits) as a death sentence, so it's good to keep your dogs properly contained if you know they do kill these things.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Pepper311 said:


> Update:
> Well today I call the bunny Massacre. The death toll is at 5 now. There was a whole family of bunnies under my deck. Stupid Rabits making a home in a yard where there are 3 dogs.
> 
> I get a call from my husband telling me 4 more bunnies were found dead. This is how it went down. My inlaws were baby sitting my daughter. My father inlaw goes out and finds Cookie with a baby bunny in her mouth. he said "drop it" she did. He took care of that. He goes back out and finds our old dog meatball with a bunny. Meat does not want to drop it. So my father inlaw had to open meatballs mouth and get it out. Then later my 3 year old daughter is holding a dead bunny. My father inlaw freaked out told her to drop it. My poor daughter started crying mostly because she got yelled at. And the 4th bunny was found just dead no dogs near it. I was at work this whole time.
> ...


It *will* happen next spring. And your daughter will be okay. Mine grew up in the country and saw the reality of nature and she's just fine. In fact, she's more realistic about it than the average kid that thinks ground beef was born in cellophane.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> You should be here, when adopters come visit and find a mouse carcass or the head off a ground squirrel.
> Our cat has become a master butcher and can decapitate, slice and dice, and disembowel with great artistry.
> 
> On that note, why do we accept vermin killing from cats yet not dogs? Granted, most of us don't consider rabbits vermin but I'm sure they can carry mange, fleas and the like.


I actually have a *BIG* problem with free-roaming cats. Too many of them and they really changing the natural equation. And that comes from a cat-lover.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

I dont know if its been mentioned yet but your mix is mixed with a pretty prey driven breed. GSDs can be worked with on a lot of things. Huskies.... they're a bit more wild and there is a reason its not advised for people who have small animals or small animals around they dont want to see hurt to have a husky or a husky mix. Just something to remember for the future


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> I actually have a *BIG* problem with free-roaming cats. Too many of them and they really changing the natural equation. And that comes from a cat-lover.


We are 5 miles out in the country - "the boonies" if you will. Our cat is on mouse patrol 24/7.

Oh, and every day almost, the field workers go out with .22s and blast away the same ground squirrels. I'm sure they get as many or more than my kitty


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> We are 5 miles out in the country - "the boonies" if you will. Our cat is on mouse patrol 24/7.
> 
> Oh, and every day almost, the field workers go out with .22s and blast away the same ground squirrels. I'm sure they get as many or more than my kitty


I live in similar circumstances. Can't even see another house from mine. Yet cats come prowling around my bluebird boxes and wait for the fledglings to emerge. Really ticks me off. I can keep out snakes, *****, etc. with predator guards and I shoot the non-native English House sparrows that peck the bluebird and tree swallow babies heads off. When I had cats, I kept all 4 of them indoors (lesson learned after an incident with a coyote on one's tail right in my front yard). I have someone's cat right now that they let run (and yes, I called them, they decided they didn't want it anymore and made it my problem) living in my master bathroom so it can't kill the nesting birds and won't get killed by coyotes, Mr. Great Horned owl or Rey (who I am trying very hard to work on her propensity to want to go after little furry things). Got it shots this past week, wormed, and it goes to its new home this week! Some state DNR researcher believe the massive overabudance of the non-native housecat is causing some bird species to dwindle. They also believe the huge population of them fueled the coyote's evolution in the east. I will take in and find home for strays. Ferals are another story entirely, but the coyotes usually get them within a week or two anyway.


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

My dogs love catching all sorts of things. They even eat butterflies sometimes.

My female LOVES field mice. She never eats them, just kills them and trys to sneak them in the house. We were in the middle of a huge remodel and I left our backdoor open one day. I looked down...and she had her catch laying right beside her.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I never see other cats here. I was told our neighbor to the north is a collector of them of sorts, so you'd think we'd see some, but we don't. 
That said, one day our kitty had a bite and infection on his arm, but I never did see the cat that did it. I think it was a cat, and so did our vet.
Our cat has always been an outdoor kitty since we rescued him 7yrs. ago. He used to be indoor/outdoor but my allergies are bad (cats are high on the list  ) and he doesn't like the dogs. 
I don't want another when he passes as I don't think our place is conducive to kitties but he manages just fine and sticks right on our property. We've lived here 4yrs. now and he's still here and 99% of the time, healthy 
And gets a raw diet every single day.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Lucky is the rabbit hunter extordianare. Daisy loves them to death ,same w/ mice. She grooms them and they die. Lucky doesn't eat his kill he wants then under our bed. He and I are working through our difference of opinion on this. I try to discourage the dogs but rabbits keep coming into the fenced in yard and make nests under the deck.Im not sure rabbits are very good at spotting danger. I call our bushes in front of the fence by our gate the thicket of death.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/magazine/02cats-v--birds-t.html?_r=3

very interesting article about the effects of cats on bird populations


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> Mr. Great Horned owl or Rey (who I am trying very hard to work on her propensity to want to go after little furry things). Got it shots this past week, wormed, and it goes to its new home this week!


Do you rescue Great Horned Owls? We have a nesting pair living in our trees which would be really cool except they leave owl pellets all over the yard and my dogs think these are scooby snacks or something.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Oddly we never see that many cats up here. 
Lots and lots and LOTS of stray and "loosely owned" dogs, but only a small handful of cats.
Down in town there's hoards of feral cats though.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i agree if you know your dog has a tendancy to kill small prey, i would try to keep them contained or onleash for walks etc. unless you have emergency training, recall, downs in motion etc, i wouldn't let them do it. sounds like you need to curb the prey drive with another job such as tracking/Herding etc. sometimes this will help curb the critter killing/chasing. giving them a job under supervision and training will control things in other areas.


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Do you rescue Great Horned Owls? We have a nesting pair living in our trees which would be really cool except they leave owl pellets all over the yard and my dogs think these are scooby snacks or something.


LOL, I worded that wrong. No, I rescued a dumped kitty from dogs, coyotes and Great Horned owls. 

I have owl pellets everywhere, too. Rey tries to eat them. Ewwww. I did rescue a baby redtail hawk once that fell out of a nest during a severe storm. They're fierce even when little. It went to a raptor rehabber.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

KentuckyGSDLover said:


> LOL, I worded that wrong. No, I rescued a dumped kitty from dogs, coyotes and Great Horned owls.


Oh LOL I misunderstood... very few cats survive out here. There is a big mean orange tom who so far has managed to survive, I see him every once it a while, he likes to sit on the other side of the fence like he's flipping my dogs off. :laugh: If we were to have cats again we would have to keep them inside and since I no longer feel like cleaning out cat boxes we don't have any of our own.


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## Wetdog (May 23, 2001)

debbiebrown said:


> i agree if you know your dog has a tendancy to kill small prey, i would try to keep them contained or onleash for walks etc. unless you have emergency training, recall, downs in motion etc, i wouldn't let them do it. sounds like you need to curb the prey drive with another job such as tracking/Herding etc. sometimes this will help curb the critter killing/chasing. giving them a job under supervision and training will control things in other areas.


 Everything our dogs do is a refinement of hunting/prey drive behavior of one type or another.

Tracking----locating prey by scent. Go to any field trial to see this in action. The dogs will quarter-----run back and forth in a zig-zag across the field to locate a scent, then follow it to the source. Air scenting is the usual means of location in this type of hunting----but ground scenting can also come into play, as field birds often have tracks(favored paths through tall grass). You'll know they've hit a track when you see them quartering---then suddenly swerve and head off in a new direction head down and tail up(flagging) to indicate location to other pack members. A "point" of coarse, means the game is actually located. All other pack members are to "hold steady and honor" the point----stop, and remain back, not interfere with the dog on "point"---that is HIS game. Other pack members are the "back up"----they are ready if the game breaks, but must not move in. The absolute surest way to cause the most serious dog fights you will ever see is to bring a dog into a pack that does not "honor" the other pack members hunt and points. The other pack members must be "steady"(be motionless and quiet---remain in a backed off position), to point, flush, shot and retrieve. If not---there is going to be some SERIOUS CORRECTION done---either by the hunter or the other pack members.

Trailing---is tracking used on large prey that does not fly. The scent is on the ground(at all times----unlike birds). Trailing would be the type of tracking used to hunt raccoons, rabbits, bears, elk, moose, lions, etc. or people. Trailing dogs would be like bloodhounds, beagles, **** hound breeds, etc. Trailers are often very vocal, so that the dogs can communicate their position because often they are running well out of sight of the hunters---**** hounds or beagles on a night hunt for instance, they "sing", "yodel", or "bay"(depending on the particular type of vocalization they do) to communicate location and success to the hunter.

Terriers, were mainly specifically bred to kill small game like rats and mice, and even as large as fox(fox can kill chickens, or other poultry---or even young livestock such as pigs, sheep or occassionally calves.) They are often smaller sized to be able to go right into dens and harrass larger prey to bolt into the path of a hunter or pack. This is why terriers are renowned for their extremely high prey drive, and not so well known for their obedience. They were bred to hunt independently---with no hunter, or back up pack, obedience and honor is not so important to a terrier type hunt.

Sight hounds-------are extremely fast and tireless runners, and highly reactive to movement. That is because they were bred to hunt in desert or savanna environments where there is very little cover and protection is often measured in distance rather than cover to hide in. That is why they can run so fast. Sight hounds are also bred to be independent hunters, often out of voice range of the hunter----and do not do as well at obedience, similar to terriers. They are both well known as "headstrong" or "stubborn"---what is really being described is the type of conditions that hunts they were bred to excel at usually take place in. Terriers and sight hounds do not need to be as pack oriented as other breeds.

Everything that our dogs do---including obedience---is some sort of refinement of hunting or pack behavior. We as trainers use those natural instincts to control and make use of this.

Hunting is extremely important. It isn't something that can be turned off. It can be diverted----you can train to hunt this, don't hunt that. But if you try to stop hunting entirely, you are going to have problems with frustration and poor control later on----you can only divert attention for a little while until you will lose focus and control.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

debbiebrown said:


> i agree if you know your dog has a tendancy to kill small prey, i would try to keep them contained or onleash for walks etc. unless you have emergency training, recall, downs in motion etc, i wouldn't let them do it. sounds like you need to curb the prey drive with another job such as tracking/Herding etc. sometimes this will help curb the critter killing/chasing. giving them a job under supervision and training will control things in other areas.


Containing a dog in a yard were baby bunnys live under a deck does not help. My dog plays frisbee with me 3 times a day that's her job. It helps. 

I thinking training the the only way to keep dogs safe and out of trouble. I am stepping up her training. She does stop when I trell her about 60% of the time not good enough so we will work on it. It will be my prioity with training.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i didn't read that the bunnies are in the yard, that makes it more difficult. probably the best thing is usuing a lunge line when going out in the yard or anywhere and correcting with that and some kind of training collar. some people use e-collars alot easier to correct when the dog is already after the prey. it needs to be used properly so edeucation and possible professional training with this is better.


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## robfromga (May 10, 2012)

High drive dogs, genetically programed to hunt and kill, hunt and kill. Labs, shepsq,retrievers ..long long list.
Your dog is going to kill things, might be bunnies, might be bugs. It all stems from the same genetic coding that you cannot erase. Attempting to do so will only lead to frustration. 
Switch that drive to something you want it to chase. Remember, a tired dog is a happy dog.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

as i said above giving a dog a job to curb the hunt helps greatly. tracking, herding etc. or if that can't be done, yes, ball play.frisbee, whatever the dog likes.


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