# Need help narrowing down breeder



## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

We originally started out our search for German Shepherds very open ended. Not particularly looking for a certain color but definitely a female. As we've researched and learned more, we decided a medium drive, working line, sable was our top choice. We are a family with a small dog so temperament is very important, interested in doing some beginner sports-obedience, rally, nosework, maybe PSA down the line. 

Had deposit with a breeder that had mostly sables and a couple of solid blacks. All girls except one was sable so we were told our odds were good (breeder picks). As our date got closer, 3 sables were narrowed down as most likely ours, one male and 2 females. The male was said to be of very good temperament so far and didn't seem to pose a problem with our current male dog. We visited them and really got our hopes up with that visit. Then on 'pick' day, we were matched with the female, all black. It took us back and while I was okay with this change, the rest of the family was not. So deposit lost.

So I've been talking with lots more breeders in our area and around other parts of the country and I don't want to really take our chances with waiting for the litter to be born and then waiting for our pick knowing the strong color preference my husband and kids have.

Now I only want to find a pup from a litter that is already on the ground with all sable females. Obviously finding a reputable breeder that has pups available when they are already born is not easy, most have had deposits for awhile.
Please help!

Two options right now, one from someone local. Sire and Dam are from reputable breeders and both have great pedigree, but only OFA prelims on the dam (good) and haven't heard back about testing for the sire. DM is neg. by parentage. 

The other is in the midwest, not a true breeder but a trainer in their local Schutzhund club that has litters from time to time. SV rated hips, sire is DM clear, dam is not tested. One same pair breeding a little less than a year ago from which they kept one of the pups for training.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

Do you have pedigree links for the litters you're considering? That will make it possible for people to give you useful insight on temperament or what to expect.

Make certain that you are 100% up front with the seller that you will decline a puppy if it isn't sable.... picking based on color opens up a can of worms.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Just from your post, it sounds like you should have taken the first puppy. Neither of the two you’re talking about now sound like litters I would buy from.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

If you want to do PSA you don't want a dog with medium drive.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Sire




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Stealth Vom Haus Rankin


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Stealth Vom Haus Rankin




www.pedigreedatabase.com




Dam




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Honey vom Haus Rankin


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Honey vom Haus Rankin




www.pedigreedatabase.com





Sire 




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Hopper vom Brachtpetal


Pedigree information about the German Shepherd Dog Hopper vom Brachtpetal




www.pedigreedatabase.com




Dam








Ulana von der tiefen Quelle | Hundeprofil - Informationen und Daten – working-dog


Alle relevanten Informationen sowie Bilder, Videos und einen detaillierten Stammbaum zu Ulana von der tiefen Quelle findest du bei working-dog.



www.working-dog.com


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> Just from your post, it sounds like you should have taken the first puppy. Neither of the two you’re talking about now sound like litters I would buy from.


I'm trying to balance it all. To my family, it's a dog we will hopefully have for 12-14 years so, while fickle, color is important to them. Honestly, they would be fine with black and red/tan too. They just don't much care for the solid black GSDs. My husband also grew up with a sable so is partial to that.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Unless you are a very experienced handler/trainer and can handle a high drive dog in a family situation, I would recommend another sport such as SCH. 

Picking a working line dog based on coat color with a limited timeframe is putting 2 things ahead of temperament. You want a dog that will be good with smaller animals and live in a family environment. I'm not saying that the right puppy doesn't exist, but meeting your criteria and your timeline is going to make finding that dog unlikely IMO.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

No, I'm definitely not a very experienced handler/trainer. Really want to find the right pup for our family. Our current dog is a rescue that bounced around from home to home until he came to us. Finding the right home is important for the dog and the owners. I'm trying to learn as much as I can, do my homework and make the right choices for the long haul. 

I'm would very much appreciate any recommendations as to where to look.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Why couldn't you previous deposit be moved to another litter? It's pretty standard practice.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Hopper is very good dog. He is well known and liked by many breeders. I don't know much about that female or the lines she comes from. The von de Sleghtebruute dog I have met was a very large, very powerful, very hard female. This is a repeat breeding, so you should ask about the previous one. The first sire you listed has a lot in common with my puppy, pedigree wise. The biggest concern I have for him is hips. Aly tends to improve hip production, but it is still a concern for me. Based on the female he is paired with, I wouldn't choose that litter.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Thanks for your insights!

I did ask about the previous litter and was told that 3 of the pups are in regular non-working homes. Of the litter, I'm told that the one best for us is one the most social and outgoing one, first one to come to you for attention, always tail wagging, more like the mom, less like Hopper.

I just got the prelim OFA records from the first dam and sire listed, the dam had excellent and the sire had good. Though these were the prelims only, hoping not too much would have changed.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Sabis Mom- They are okay with moving the deposit, it will just be at least a year's wait. Their next planned litter is not expected to have good pups for pet homes. The litter after will be with the same dam as the current litter, so it will be a while until her next season.

If we don't find the right pup before then, then we will stay in contact with this breeder but I want to keep looking until then.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Sentinel Hart in CA has some sable pups on the ground now and a couple litters expected in october. she tends to produce pretty dark dogs tho, so considering the range of ‘sable’, they may or may not be what your family is looking for. quite a few of the dogs are noted to be good with cats, dogs and other small animals too.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

I would have kept the all black puppy especially if it was a good match. I went into my search looking for temperament first. However, I’m not going to lie, those dark sables are beautiful and what I originally wanted. Instead, I now have a bi-color. Now sables look washed out to me (not totally true...still love them!).

But the sleekness of a black coat is visually stunning. My dog looks like a black panther when he’s in stalking mode. 💕

Another plus is that people are scared of black dogs. Nobody approaches me when I walk. Well, nobody approaches me on foot....lol. Many cars stop me and tell me how beautiful he is. In fact, that just happened today. I feel safe walking him at night.

On a completely shallow note, color matters less to me than correct ear structure (visually, I don’t like ears too far apart) and a reverse mask (I like a dark mask). But temperament would still win out.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Thanks Fodder, I checked their site. Looks like all reserved.

IllinoisNative, it took me a few minutes to process but I was good with getting the black puppy. She was super cute. I agree on temperament, but I also need buy in from the whole family though if we are going to make this work. At least from my husband.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

GS2020 said:


> I agree on temperament, but I also need buy in from the whole family though if we are going to make this work. At least from my husband.


I completely understand. I’m spoiled because I’m not currently married so I can chose any dog I want. I’m not so sure I could go back into a relationship if I have to compromise on dogs. LOL


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

😁


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

One more option





Litter from Ares z Eliscina dvora and Kk's Rogue Von Shafferhaus







www.pedigreedatabase.com


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Are any of them dogs you can see and have contact with, in person?


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

IllinoisNative said:


> However, I’m not going to lie, those dark sables are beautiful and what I originally wanted. Instead, I now have a bi-color. Now sables look washed out to me (not totally true...still love them!).


Totally agree with @IllinoisNative here. I wanted a sable. I just thought they were so cool (and still do). My breeder picked out a Black and Tan for me. 
Now I can’t imagine a more iconic and attractive dog. His coloring is fantastic. His personality and abilities are everything I wanted.

Keep in mind that when you get a sable, it may not appear the way your family imagined. Sables change...a lot. Even in the same breeding, I’ve seen them all look the same at 8 weeks and then totally different shades a few months later: some dark and some ‘washed’ out, some patterned and some not so much. So sables could be a bit of a lottery in how they look by maturity.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

GS2020 said:


> Sire
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw that a female sable became avail from Hopper and Ulsan. They are ready to go home the breeder is Ronnie Weiss who u can find on FB. They are in Indiana.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Sent you a Pm


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Steve Strom said:


> Are any of them dogs you can see and have contact with, in person?


Only one is driving distance and we were told no visits until after the first vaccine.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

BigOzzy2018 said:


> Sent you a Pm


Thank you, I responded.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

GS2020 said:


> Only one is driving distance and we were told no visits until after the first vaccine.


Sorry, that wasn't real clear. I meant the adults. I say that because everyone uses the same basic terms with drive, or social, etc... but they can mean something different depending on who is saying it. I understand wanting something, but raising a dog for sport and as a family pet, its a little different. Its something a lot of people do, but you really want to see a lot of things in person to give you a little bit of a baseline to go by.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

GS2020 said:


> Thanks Fodder, I checked their site. Looks like all reserved.


The original litter that you were interested in was also reserved...and you backed out. it’s not uncommon. if it were me, i’d reach out.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

Fodder said:


> The original litter that you were interested in was also reserved...and you backed out. it’s not uncommon. if it were me, i’d reach out.


You are very right there!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

One of the biggest problems in any forum is that there is such a huge diversity of experience and interest in recommendations. People jump on the bandwagon of competition dogs who are awesome in the right hands - but are NOT dogs that should be bred primarily for companion homes. I have seen quite a few dogs from both these sets of breedings. Given the OPs inquiries and stated level of experience, I don't think either of these are the right choice for this particular family. 

There is nothing wrong with preferring a certain color....I had two sables when I really wanted a pure black....I had OTHER criteria as well....health testing, titles etc....I have had people who insist on a color or sex - and if I can't provide it - they get their deposit back - as long as they are upfront about it.....will send you a pm with some details.


Lee


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

GS2020 said:


> No, I'm definitely not a very experienced handler/trainer. Really want to find the right pup for our family. Our current dog is a rescue that bounced around from home to home until he came to us. Finding the right home is important for the dog and the owners. I'm trying to learn as much as I can, do my homework and make the right choices for the long haul.
> 
> I'm would very much appreciate any recommendations as to where to look.


The best place to look is at club training. You can see and meet dogs and learn where they came from, what lines, what training they have had and so forth.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

David Winners said:


> The best place to look is at club training. You can see and meet dogs and learn where they came from, what lines, what training they have had and so forth.


I've been waiting for some trials to restart around here but most haven't. It's a good idea though to just see if I can attend some practices. There's a lot I could learn by watching GSDs with their trainers and handlers.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You learn so much more about the dogs at training over trials. Trials are completed pictures. You aren't seeing the dogs under the stress of training or the issues each dog has. Silent guard? In training you would know it's because the active guard is weak or the barking is terrible. In trial, you just see the dog staring at the helper. Tracking? Can the dog track, take the stress of a correction or was it trained thru force tracking? retrieves? Again....was it forced or shaped and what do the drives look like. Biddability? you see that in training. If I'm looking for a dog, I want to see the line in training.


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## patches (Nov 5, 2013)

I am going to echo those who recommend meeting some dogs before commiting to a litter. There is a huge amout of variation in terms of temperment and drive for GSDs. My ideal dog for sports would not work out well for the average family just wanting a pet. Be honest with the amount of time you want to spend training and working with a dog because the calm, happy dog you see at club training took a lot of work and continued training/exercise/stimulation to get there. I don't want to discourage you because GSD can be great pets for the right family. I have 2 working GSD with 2 smaller dogs and a toddler, so it is possible, but it is not easy.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Valor is 4 1/2 months. He's had 5 hours of activity today including hiking, swimming, Nosework, fetch...

He's still going. I just took him out for some OB and touch pad. He's currently wrestling with the other dog.


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## GS2020 (Sep 8, 2020)

You all have given me a lot to think about, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.


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