# Tips for working with a "strong willed" pup?



## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm new here and have been lurking around learning all sorts of incredibly great information.

We have a new 15 week old White German Shepherd. We got her through a rescue when she was about 12 weeks old (I think that the backyard "breeder" couldn't find homes for his litter.)

We're taking her to a puppy socialization class and she's definitely the one with a lot of spunk and a strong desire to play and even rough house. (She's the pup whose name everyone knows at the end of the hour!) The trainer there described her as "strong willed" and indicated that when we're restraining or calming her she's going to need a firm grip. (This is a trainer who very much works on a rewards and body language system with very few or no "corrections.")

I work with her a few times during the day, she gets plenty of exercise, she sleeps in our room but in her crate, inside the house she's either on a leash, in her crate or (if we're playing, eating, or watching TV) kept in one room with us, we're doing the whole NILIF thing with toys, food, affection, permission to go through doorways. For training, I use TONS of treats and rewards -- affection is slowly starting to be enough of a reward for her. I work from home so even when she's in her crate she's near me except for those times when I have to leave the house for an hour or two here or there. At her young age I don't want to use too many "harsh" corrections (I will use a loud deep "no" for jumping up, taking things she's not supposed to and a tug on the harness or flat collar to get her moving in the right direction -- these things DEFINITELY do not frighten her or make her wary). I'm debating switching to a slip collar for walks and training once she's a little older. 

She had one instance of guarding her food and one of guarding a bone -- but after spending time with her during her feeding and when she has a bone, she hasn't had another incident and can eat with children around her and touching her (we don't have kids but my sister's kids spend a fair amount of time with us).

I don't have any specific questions. I was just hoping that some of the more experienced GSD owners might have some tips for working with (and heading off problems with) a pup is described as "strong willed" and even "stubborn." (She's still just a puppy but I can see slight glimmers of how she might decide to only follow commands when she wants to -- she'll hesitate before sitting or pause before even a short, on leash recall -- that sort of thing.)

Any tips that worked for you would be greatly appreciated (or even any books or readings that you found helpful)!

-- Rhena


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I think you're on the right track. I would probably not let the kids bother her while she's eating, or has something prized like a bone, but getting her used to adults being around her food bowl while she eats is good, especially if you do some hand feeding where you hold the bowl rather than it being on the floor, or you sit or stand nearby and toss yummy things into it while she's eating.

Providing structure and rules in the form of NILIF is great for all dogs, but especially for those strong willed ones. It can take time, so be patient, but I personally wouldn't do anything different. Just make sure that's she's always reinforced for the kind of behavior you want, and that bad behavior NEVER gets reinforced.


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## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Thanks for the ideas! 

I'd like her to be used to being around the kids at all times so that when we have our own one days, she's ready... but I'll continue to watch her closely when she's eating so that the kids aren't a concern.

Thanks again (love your picture of a wet Keefer!)


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you work with dog a few times a day. how many times is a few times? our dog was on a 6 sessions a day training time. each session lasted 5 to 10 minutes. each session ended on a positive note. we worked on one thing at a time. maybe you should train more than a few times a day. are you sharing in the training? with two people training you can get alot done.

your're in a great position to train your dog because you work at home. what is stronged wiied? is your puppy being a puppy? you only had your puppy for 3 weeks. hang in there and be consistant in your training. good luck!!


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Sounds like this pup landed in a great home! I agree with Debbie that you guys are on the right track. It's of course always hard to tell without watching the dog work but it sort of sounds like rather than strong willed, in the sense of obstinant, or wanting her own way, she's just otherwise engaged. I guess it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other , but what I see with a lot of dogs who are all over the place or slow/grudging to follow commands, is that they are more motivated by whatever is going on around them than what you're trying to get them to do or they don't totally understand what's expected of them. I wouldn't be too quick to go to praise only training - given how enthusiastic she is about playing and rough housing, you're going to need something she's equally enthusiastic about to refocus her on you while she's still a baby. 

My suggestion, if you're not doing this already, is to consider clicker training. Seen it work wonders on dogs like yours. It makes for a very clear line of communication and they seem to enjoy the game of figuring out each new thing. If you're having trouble with pulling and focus on leash, I'd also recommend doing the controlled walking exercise where you get out in an open area and walk briskly, changing directions abruptly every time she stops looking at you, lots of praise/treats when she's in heel position and focused. Can be done on a flat collar and isn't harsh at all if done correctly. 

Welcome to the board and congrats on your pup!


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## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

doggiedad, I do short, quick-paced training sessions about three or four times a day. Each session I either introduce a new command, focus on one she's having trouble with, or reinforce ones she already knows. I'm doing most of the training (since I'm the one at home and my husband is in grad school -- he has to do the stuff that I am loathe to do like the first morning trip outside in the freezing cold to pee and the last walk in the freezing cold of the evening -- we're in Minnesota so the cold is a serious consideration when divying up responsibility!) We're working on adding in a few two person, one puppy games like "puppy ping pong" at the times when we're both home. Yes -- there's definitely some of the "puppy being a puppy" thing there -- she's exploring and trying out new things and seeing what's acceptable and what's not and what smells and tastes good and what doesn't! "Strong willed" was the phrase the trainer used and I think what she was getting as was that out puppy is going to possibly need a slightly firmer hand -- both physically and mentally.

pupresq, thanks for the welcome and the encouragement! I think you're right -- I think that mostly she just wants to do things her way and is quickly and easily focused on distractions like other puppies and dogs. 

Thanks for the tip about clicker training. Would you recommend going to an obedience class that specifically focuses on clicker training or is it the type of thing that I can read up on and do on my own in conjunction with an obedience class that doesn't necessarily teach it? I've heard great things about clicker training -- unfortunately the first time I saw a video about it it was with a tiny little lap dog and it made me foolishly think "Well, that's a cute little system for tiny dogs. Probably won't work with a big working dog..." Silly me!

Thanks for the walking idea. We do a similar thing on the sidewalk but rather than changing direction, we step in front of her and say "no" when she starts to walk ahead of us (as suggested by the trainer). I like the idea of going to a big open space (although it's hard to find places that are open and walkable with so much snow on the ground!). I also like the idea of switching directions when she stops looking at me because especially with the slippery ice underfoot, it's often hard for me to step out in front of her at the right time. (We've both slid on the ice more than once which, needless to say, disrupts the rhythm of the entire exercise.) It will probably be much easier to just switch direction when she takes her eyes off me.

I won't worry too much about weaning her from the treats. (I think I've been a little anxious because some things I read make it seem like being too dependent on treats is somehow a bad thing.)


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

If you can find a good (emphasis on good!) clicker class, I think that's the best way to start. It's a relatively simple system once you get it, but getting it can be a little tricky at first and it helps to have someone demonstrating it and helping you along. Timing is key and a lot of people don't quite understand it - I've seen a lot of folks who use the clicker like a command, which it totally wrong.



> Quote: I've heard great things about clicker training -- unfortunately the first time I saw a video about it it was with a tiny little lap dog and it made me foolishly think "Well, that's a cute little system for tiny dogs. Probably won't work with a big working dog..." Silly me!


I'm using it now to help a young couple with a "strong willed" Great Dane, so yes - I'd say it works just fine with the bigger dogs!







Seriously though, she's doing great and her focus has improved like 900%. Before this she was too busy leaping around trying to get to other dogs/cats/people, whatever. She also towed the owners down the road every walk. We started with the technique I told you about and by the first night she was heeling. I was so proud of them! I am familiar with the technique your trainer is using, and it's fine, but I really like the big open space one better. It's not so much like you're even "correcting" her, it's more like you're on your own mission and suddenly she realizes that she's going to have to pay attention to you to know where to go next. Lightbulb!









I can see how the weather might be a problem though. Maybe something to try as it thaws out?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a great video on using a clicker to teach loose leash walking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZarFGdcj8s

Not clicker training, but a great video on teaching impulse control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipT5k1gaXhc

And this is the best one I've seen for shaping a behavior with a clicker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qpBDIh_dQI


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## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

pupresq, I love the "900%" improvement! Juno's already getting a little *too* excited on leash about other dogs and people... but I think that with consistent training, we should be able to get to her to focus well as an adult. (She's still a puppy, after all!) I think we'll be able to find a decent open space where we can practice walking this way... even before the spring thaw!

Great videos, Cassidy's Mom. When I saw the silky leash technique at first I was thinking, well, this dog is only going to focus on the leash, not the walker -- but by the end she was focusing on the walker. Great stuff! We do a tiny, tiny impulse control with her kibble and I'd like to work with her on "leave it" next week -- but that video really showed the potential! (My husband dreams of being able to put a treat on her nose and have her her hold it and then flip it off on our command!) And the last video was such a clear example of shaping behavior. I'm interested in looking into how and when you pair it with a command so that the behavior will be repeated...

Thanks for all your ideas!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Rhena, do you work on impulse control at mealtimes? I start when they're puppies - in fact my almost 12 week old puppy that we got less than 2 weeks ago will remain in a sit while I put her food bowl down. Right now, I release her as soon as the bowl hits the floor, but I work up to waiting a few seconds, and eventually to where I can even leave the room briefly. But it's something you can start doing at any age, just make the difficulty level appropriate for the age of the dog and the training they've had. 

Bad quality pic, but here's Keefer at almost 5 months old holding a sit with his food bowl on the floor with me on the other side of a closed gate:










And about 2 months later in obedience class, you can see part of the row of kibble on the floor in front of him while he looks at me:










He is EXTREMELY food motivated, and initially had really bad manners around food. Over time, I taught him that the way to get the food was to ignore it and focus on me instead.


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## Rhena (Jan 30, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom, 

Love it! Juno is also EXTREMELY food motivated. When she exhibited a little guarding early on when we got her, I started being much more involved in her mealtimes. It morphed into a little bit of impulse control. I hand feed her the first few bites of her meal. Initially she just had to not lunge for the food and now we're working her focusing on me instead of the food. She's coming along. Food motivation can be a curse when they start to guard... but it is SUCH a blessing when using treats to train!

I'm going to up the ante with your suggestions over the next few weeks -- and I'll work on me moving away from the food and her watching me until I give her the signal to eat... Thanks for the ideas!

(If you or anyone else on this thread knows.... does impulse control around food translate to impulse control in general?)


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Rhena(If you or anyone else on this thread knows.... does impulse control around food translate to impulse control in general?)


In my experience, no. Dogs don't generalize well...in general. (Bad pun intended!) Keefer is a low impulse control kind of guy, and we have to work on each unique situation over and over and over, and he sometimes still forgets that he's capable of controlling those impulses and needs to be reminded. He's really good around food now, because we've worked on that so extensively, but we're still working on him not jumping up to grab at a toy, such as his Flying Squirrel or Jolly Ball, when we're holding it. Or anyone else's toy at the park, for that matter.

He knows that we don't put the leash on until he's sitting calmly, but he still gets so excited about going somewhere that he jumps up and down for a few minutes. It's never worked, we stand there and wait until he's done with his happy dance, but he still does it. And the door doesn't open until he's sitting making eye contact, but he'll still sometimes jump up and break that sit. So we wait for him to sit and make eye contact again before releasing him to go out the door. He knows that I'll ignore him until he calms down when I get home, but he still sometimes jumps on me 'cause he's just so excited to see me. And he's over THREE years old!!!


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