# Anyone with personal experience, Shield K9



## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

I have read a lot of shield k9 posts here and always paid attention when brought up due to close proximity. I have watched a lot of videos, I’m just wondering how many people here have personal experience with them. I want to advance Ellie and my training beyond the school environment, I have a little knowledge about training but nothing worth noting here. Ellie is an amazing dog I’m thankful everyday we got Ellie, she’s so solid snd is just a happy dog full of life, I don’t have any issues I’m trying to correct or extinguish, I just want to learn more, things like send outs, stronger heel, advance and proof her obedience correctly, I’ve used e-collar in past with my other dog but I want to make sure I’m bang on with Ellie, I want to be taught correctly. 

my concerns are, watching the videos they seem… harsh. I am 100% okay with corrections, but I’m also okay with lots of praise and reward. And as good as Ellie is, Ellie has a side, I think a serious side.. shes a very forward dog, approaches everyone snd everything, I watch her take in the world and it’s very discerning.. I get the feeling she’d light up in the right situation so I don’t want to pressure her with harsh training to young, will they understand this? Is this a valid concern? @David Winners if your around if you could chime in I’d appreciate it as you have experience with the dogs and a little bit of Ellie. 

feel free to PM if you like just looking for first hand experience 

Thanks!


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

In my experience of Shield - which we have gone to for reactivity - there's correction for reaction, but there was also a big focus on what to do so the reaction doesn't start. Loose leash, heel were the big ones to use when other dogs were around. (Full disclosure: we have put the one on ones on hold for now due to cash flow issues). 

But Sal had us using lots of treats as well. He really worked us in treating in a timely fashion and properly. Especially with heel and our positioning giving the treat. But he worked on, let's load a marker properly, here's how long you have to treat, lots of praise, it's not just food treats, you have to be FUN, exciting - so when we did heel with them, after a certain amount of time working on it, we throw a ball as a treat - we wrestle and run around (I left bloody haha I do play like that with Agis at home even before), and then do some more heeling. As opposed to just food. 

Once he knows a behaviour, that's when they say to correct. I think they feel a dog is proofed earlier than Agis was (I'm talking during a training session) but the corrections in that case (changing how he downed so one fluid motion) were more pressure pops than something bad (to me) and in part I suspect so once he was more solid at home and blew us off we could do the correction (prong on the other way than how we'd use it for a walk).

With that said - Agis is a (young) adult who went there for behaviour issues and we have worked on obedience as a means to deal with the behaviour issues. With respect to the reactivity, the corrections were (sometimes are, he's not perfect) generally for fixating (so not just looking at) or reacting. I thought they were fair, but that's just me perhaps.

Certainly we've seen great results, and Agis remains engaged and happy, he loves training. We're looking forward to saving up some more and continuing with Sal and Shield.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

This was helpful @jarn thank you


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

Ive done most of the shield k9 online obediance and reactivity course. My experience, based only with online stuff, is he has made a name for himself dealing with very reactive dogs and high drive dogs. His loose leash walking technique worked for me, but it’s not for the faint of heart, especially with a tough dog. He’s really the only online trainer showing hard corrections, at least that I’ve seen, and I respect that because it helps for those who have similar dogs. But I wouldn’t hand him a relatively sweet dog without issues for general behavior training, that’s just me based on my very limited experience.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

On topic (necessary hard corrections) but with Beckman's Dog Training


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Sonny1984 said:


> Ive done most of the shield k9 online obediance and reactivity course. My experience, based only with online stuff, is he has made a name for himself dealing with very reactive dogs and high drive dogs. His loose leash walking technique worked for me, but it’s not for the faint of heart, especially with a tough dog. He’s really the only online trainer showing hard corrections, at least that I’ve seen, and I respect that because it helps for those who have similar dogs. But I wouldn’t hand him a relatively sweet dog without issues for general behavior training, that’s just me based on my very limited experience.


This is my thought process as Ellie is not a hard dog, she has some fire to her but she hasn’t shown anything misplaced yet, that I pick up anyways


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> On topic (necessary hard corrections) but with Beckman's Dog Training


I liked that video, thanks. I don’t have an issue with hard corrections when needed, Ellie isn’t like that dog though thankfully


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## Cigarillo (Dec 20, 2021)

Carter Smith said:


> I liked that video, thanks. I don’t have an issue with hard corrections when needed, Ellie isn’t like that dog though thankfully


I appreciate his honesty in showing a more complete perspective. Some other vids with lots of edits, I don’t learn as much.
My dog also is very good-natured — but not quite as attentive to me as would be ideal. Most of that is myself having a very strong tendency to go along somewhat casually (oblivious?) unless a serious problem arises. 
Thanks to this site and the strong advice I’ve received, I now understand that is definitely NOT how to have a healthy relationship with a GSD, even a GSD like mine who I adopted as an adult and for whom my only ambition was a trustworthy companion.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I wouldn't hesitate to go to Shield. With any trainer, I'm going to talk through what their plan is and voice any concerns I may have before we start. I don't hesitate to hit the pause button if I'm uncomfortable with something.


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## perrymel (Oct 28, 2021)

I am thinking of the online course because I am in Canada ( British Columbia , Vancouver Island to be exact). I find it pricey ( because of the USD exchange) and I am leery of the membership where you have to do a recurring subscription ( not sure how easy it would be to cancel) Anyone have any thoughts on this , I would appreciate the feed back. Gabriel is 18 months old, and a very good dog so far !! But I want 100% recall !! His loose leash walking is very good ( except when we get close to a trial to the beach that he wants to go to, but once we are passed he is very good again. Leaving for our walks are very good, coming home he seems to sense it and prefers to walk right at the end of the leash, but not really pulling! He is not reactive to other dogs, we quite often come across dogs that want to bite his head off, he looks, and mostly doesn't react ( I will tell him leave it) but if I would let him go I am sure he would give them something back. He really is a good dog, not aggressive and I do believe if I was in trouble he would be there for me. Anyways, any feed back more than welcome. Note: just had him neutered and umbilical hernia repaired & micro chipped, recovery is going good, doesn't like the cone or the donut, and not liking the body suit at all ( thank goodness 6 more days and he can run, play and get wet again) longest 2 weeks of our lives LOL


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## Sonny1984 (Oct 25, 2021)

perrymel said:


> I am thinking of the online course because I am in Canada ( British Columbia , Vancouver Island to be exact). I find it pricey ( because of the USD exchange) and I am leery of the membership where you have to do a recurring subscription ( not sure how easy it would be to cancel) Anyone have any thoughts on this , I would appreciate the feed back. Gabriel is 18 months old, and a very good dog so far !! But I want 100% recall !! His loose leash walking is very good ( except when we get close to a trial to the beach that he wants to go to, but once we are passed he is very good again. Leaving for our walks are very good, coming home he seems to sense it and prefers to walk right at the end of the leash, but not really pulling! He is not reactive to other dogs, we quite often come across dogs that want to bite his head off, he looks, and mostly doesn't react ( I will tell him leave it) but if I would let him go I am sure he would give them something back. He really is a good dog, not aggressive and I do believe if I was in trouble he would be there for me. Anyways, any feed back more than welcome. Note: just had him neutered and umbilical hernia repaired & micro chipped, recovery is going good, doesn't like the cone or the donut, and not liking the body suit at all ( thank goodness 6 more days and he can run, play and get wet again) longest 2 weeks of our lives LOL


I had the same issue with the recurring subscription. I talked to Haz on the phone and he said he wasn’t sure if it’s a recurring subscription…I found that a bit odd. There is no easy way to cancel if it is. I was planning to do a chargeback if I had to, but luckily the card I used to sign up I had to cancel, so I’m not worried about it. This whole weirdness is my only critcism.

The online off leash course will get you a solid recall. It’s all e collar training.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Sonny1984 said:


> Ive done most of the shield k9 online obediance and reactivity course. My experience, based only with online stuff, is he has made a name for himself dealing with very reactive dogs and high drive dogs. His loose leash walking technique worked for me, but it’s not for the faint of heart, especially with a tough dog. He’s really the only online trainer showing hard corrections, at least that I’ve seen, and I respect that because it helps for those who have similar dogs. But I wouldn’t hand him a relatively sweet dog without issues for general behavior training, that’s just me based on my very limited experience.


Again, I worked with Haz on some of Punks issues and specifically with prong collar use. He knew she was a softy, jelly donut kind of dog. Some things he pushed me on, some he conceded my approach was more appropriate. He was right about all of it. 
He is a good trainer, lots of tools in the toolbox. He isn't going to hammer down on a dog that it would do more harm then good with. Remember that most pet owners have no clue what their dogs are really saying. And a majority of pet dogs are spoiled rotten jerks who desperately need a rule book thrown at them.
My dog barks and whines at me when it's scheduled time to do something. I could say she is a spoiled witch, but the truth in her case is that she is an anxious dog whose strict schedule keeps her comfortable. The same behavior from Sabi was because she was a spoiled, pushy bitch under whose rule we got the fridge tax.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I've been thinking about this post. Most regulars here know what I think of the program and what it has done for me is excellent. 

It's pet people training. It's about training the human to communicate the dog. 

I'm a rather soft person. I can understand that one may see Haz as harsh. 

Training your dog is only harsh if you make it so. 

Haz gives you all the options, all the tools and the degree to which you use them is dictated by you and the dog. 

Not all dogs need an ecollar. Not all dogs need a strong correction. You have to work with the dog in front you. I have a dog that doesn't even need to be rewarded really. 

Most dogs do need rewards - SHOULD BE REWARDED. Most dogs need to have a system of consequence. It's balanced training. 

At some point boundaries will be tested. You want to be able to tell your dog NO and it stop whatever it's doing instantly. Haz shows you how. If you have a dog that needs to know that. 

You can use the program however you suits your dog. Engage in rewarding behavior with your dog. 

I say make an appointment. Walk your dog in how does the dog do? 

Wasn't long ago I took my dogs inside a training facility. It wasn't great. 

I'm rather confident I could do it now. Gonna go for a walk now.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Apex1 said:


> I've been thinking about this post. Most regulars here know what I think of the program and what it has done for me is excellent.
> 
> It's pet people training. It's about training the human to communicate the dog.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info I appreciate all the feedback. I also hope my post doesn’t seem as if I’m against corrections or a balanced approach, even though I think Ellie is awesome, she has received some firm corrections, she can be pushy, relentless and she’s a lot of dog that’s full of herself. It’s just that I don’t view any of this as malicious or issues that have been because of weak nerves. My concerns lay around pushing a young dog with fight and how that would look in my day to day life, but it really shouldn’t be my concern considering Haz knows a world more than me and would see it way clearer than I would. Again appreciate the feedback


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Rogan runs right through "hard" pinch collar corrections. He learns from them, responds to them but totally unaffected by them if that makes sense. He's like a heavyweight boxer that just leans on you for a few round to wear you down.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I don’t think it’s pet training where you will find his limits. Pet training is just functional training, which is effectively the lowest level. It doesn’t sound like that’s what you are looking for. It sounds like you are looking more for sport type training or more advanced work to challenge your dog. In that regard, I would say just go watch him train for a few sessions and you will know if it’s something you are interested in or not.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I have hit a dog (Fama) hard enough on a prong to flip them over backwards out of a truck, and I've trained several dogs with nothing but verbal corrections.

I think Haz is a good trainer and reads dogs well. If I posted video of harsh corrections that I deemed necessary, some would say I was cruel or that I only had one way to train or whatever. 

I understand that some people find him abrasive, but I get it. I've been around a lot of trainers of high level dogs and that's just how we can come across. It takes a certain amount of arrogance to handle powerful, arrogant dogs. While some keep it in check better than others, it's always there. I do my best to keep my filter in place but sometimes it is challenging.

My advice is to go train with as many people as possible. Don't let them handle your dog if you are uncomfortable, but go see what they have to offer.

An anecdotal aside:

Nate Harves trains and breeds some great dogs. Real dogs that do work and sport at high levels. He's an arrogant dude, but he knows his stuff. He's also one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He just went far and above what would be considered normal to save a squirrel. He will tell you you are an idiot and then give you the shirt off his back.

I've trained with a lot of big name dudes and they are all very similar. Type A personalities that are polarizing. Just go check it out. I went to a Finks seminar decades ago and he was a pretty rude dude sometimes, but I learned a lot. I have attended training with several big firearms trainers and they are the same.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Haz has a few videos out on his competition module. I've been thinking about for Zephyr.

@David Winners Dogs do tend to respect that presence.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

WNGD said:


> Rogan runs right through "hard" pinch collar corrections. He learns from them, responds to them but totally unaffected by them if that makes sense. He's like a heavyweight boxer that just leans on you for a few round to wear you down.


I can see it


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Bearshandler said:


> I don’t think it’s pet training where you will find his limits. Pet training is just functional training, which is effectively the lowest level. It doesn’t sound like that’s what you are looking for. It sounds like you are looking more for sport type training or more advanced work to challenge your dog. In that regard, I would say just go watch him train for a few sessions and you will know if it’s something you are interested in or not.


100%, I have a few paths I’m thinking.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

David Winners said:


> I have hit a dog (Fama) hard enough on a prong to flip them over backwards out of a truck, and I've trained several dogs with nothing but verbal corrections.
> 
> I think Haz is a good trainer and reads dogs well. If I posted video of harsh corrections that I deemed necessary, some would say I was cruel or that I only had one way to train or whatever.
> 
> ...


Well said, I can honestly say that post changed my view on some things.. In my brief and limited experience with a few trainers, I can’t say I have agreed with everything they said.. and sometimes I do get frustrated, but I have been able to take something and appreciate some aspects of how they teach or approach training. Thank you!


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

@Apex1 some of Haz's videos that have been posted here are criticized, but not the actual training program as far as I know. The few videos that were posted here grab ones attention but not in a good way.
The trainers I've had personal experience with that were forthright in pointing out mistakes as well as successes were the ones I learned the most from. I think having an abrupt honest coach is the only way to move forward.Someone who "yeses" clients all of the time leaves them stuck in limbo.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

dogma13 said:


> @Apex1 some of Haz's videos that have been posted here are criticized, but not the actual training program as far as I know. The few videos that were posted here grab ones attention but not in a good way.
> The trainers I've had personal experience with that were forthright in pointing out mistakes as well as successes were the ones I learned the most from. I think having an abrupt honest coach is the only way to move forward.Someone who "yeses" clients all of the time leaves them stuck in limbo.


I didn’t know there were actual dog trainers that just said yes, all I ever get is No, like this 😂


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## perrymel (Oct 28, 2021)

It sounds like most of you have had some one on one with Haz or K9, was looking for more reviews of online training . We have done 3 different classes in person, puppy obedience when he was young, pups in the park when he was a little older ( training to walk your dog on leash in different surroundings and being non reactive to other dogs, and he passed with flying colors ) and then an extensive all day course with Wild Wolf and we really learned a lot there!! But we still have trouble with fence reactivity ( loses his marbles when someone goes by our house, and we live in a very populated neighborhood ) and I really want 100% recall and off leash would be awesome. Other than that, Gabriel is awesome with people and non reactive on all leash walks ( even when every little **** dog tries to attack him) , and he does come when I call, but not all the time and I have never tried with other dogs around. We need work with his stay command as we will tell him bed, or sit, or wait, and he listens to the command but doesn't stay in position until we tell him free, so need help with that, and from what I have read on line these are the things the course promises help with. I am just leery of giving my credit card to an ongoing renewal and in the USD exchange I find it expensive for just an on line course. as I said earlier, we are on Vancouver Island , BC Canada. Not a chance we would get to do an in person with Haz (which we would love) Anyway, sorry for going on so long, just trying to figure it out and see if I should take the leap of faith with K9


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

@dogma13 i think open discussion is valuable. I mean Haz comes across in a strong way lol. I honestly can't recall any criticism to Haz. 

Carter said Haz could seem harsh and I understand.

It's easier to see the harsh. It's eye catching. Haz certainly has a personality of his own. 

Summoning my inner Haz so to speak helped me power through some problem areas. In ways I needed to be stronger and in ways I needed to help my dog through play, teaching and reward. 

The beginning of Haz's course is so important. I watched how he moves how he rewards what he says and how. How he fades help. It's a really good course in my opinion if you really truly watch it and put it to use. 
Spending the time there in the beginning, spend the time with the leash work, when you move into ecollar work it's so much easier. I back up when I need to. 

Haz talks alot about being fair to the dog. Testing the dogs understanding in the teaching phase and how to show the dog and help the dog from many angles. How to control your body language and speech so that the dog understands. You have to move at the pace in which the dog is learning - that your teaching is effective. You rush the process it's unfair to the dog and you will be harsh. 

Haz is given a dog then has 6 weeks to have the dog perform at a high level. Us at home can take more time. People should take more time. 

In the right hands Haz's course is priceless. Sadly enough I'm sure there are those who still can't use the information fairly. 

For pet people who are active with their dogs and maybe need help or have some struggles or it's their first dog who isn't a natural angel lol its a good buy. The price is less then what I would pay a trainer to see as many times as I would need to. I can watch the videos as many times as need be. I watch the videos ALOT. 

The only thing Haz teaches with punishment is loose leash walking. 
He also shows in the main course and reactive course how to punish reactive behavior through conditioning the marker word and different forms of punishment. 

It's not a one size fits all program although I think it fits for most dogs. 

The course was a transformation for me. 

Sorry to ramble on. The course helps people and dogs. It's a valuable resource.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Apex1 said:


> Haz talks alot about being fair to the dog. Testing the dogs understanding in the teaching phase and how to show the dog and help the dog from many angles. How to control your body language and speech so that the dog understands. You have to move at the pace in which the dog is learning - that your teaching is effective. You rush the process it's unfair to the dog and you will be harsh.


This is gold


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## dojoson41 (Oct 14, 2018)

Prince rules. I dont see any harsh treatment from Beckmans videos-He tries to understand the dog's problem and then uses common sense and a language to help train dogs by using his dog prince-who knows actually what to do-they should call Prince the dog whisperer.


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## perrymel (Oct 28, 2021)

I decided to sign up and try the online course, so far going well, but its stuff we already know and just need practice with ( place, and stay there) I will post back after we are done ( 6 weeks I believe) and sure hope this works for us as it was a little pricey converting to USD from Canadian.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

perrymel said:


> I decided to sign up and try the online course, so far going well, but its stuff we already know and just need practice with ( place, and stay there) I will post back after we are done ( 6 weeks I believe) and sure hope this works for us as it was a little pricey converting to USD from Canadian.


It does seem pricey


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

That’s crazy because he is Canadian


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

Carter Smith said:


> I have read a lot of shield k9 posts here and always paid attention when brought up due to close proximity. I have watched a lot of videos, I’m just wondering how many people here have personal experience with them. I want to advance Ellie and my training beyond the school environment, I have a little knowledge about training but nothing worth noting here. Ellie is an amazing dog I’m thankful everyday we got Ellie, she’s so solid snd is just a happy dog full of life, I don’t have any issues I’m trying to correct or extinguish, I just want to learn more, things like send outs, stronger heel, advance and proof her obedience correctly, I’ve used e-collar in past with my other dog but I want to make sure I’m bang on with Ellie, I want to be taught correctly.
> 
> my concerns are, watching the videos they seem… harsh. I am 100% okay with corrections, but I’m also okay with lots of praise and reward. And as good as Ellie is, Ellie has a side, I think a serious side.. shes a very forward dog, approaches everyone snd everything, I watch her take in the world and it’s very discerning.. I get the feeling she’d light up in the right situation so I don’t want to pressure her with harsh training to young, will they understand this? Is this a valid concern? @David Winners if your around if you could chime in I’d appreciate it as you have experience with the dogs and a little bit of Ellie.
> 
> ...


 I’m always interested in dog training . There is a lot of big wood highbteck sounding stuff but I’ve grown away from this . I was tough in what is best described as human force. Never force on the dog . You either did as instructed or you got smacked with something some times dressed down in front of the whole group as something lower than dung beetle . Once “forced into your head” it was permanent. It was brutal at times But the dog was the most important if the dog was incorrect , you were responsible for not knowing what the dog was thinking and improper training I kept telling myself I was there to learn, so pay attention and learn . Many times I look back and see mistakes I made. I wish I could go back in time I could have done much better than I did . I think my dog was one of those few and far between dogs that can just shake It off and move on


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

David Winners said:


> I have hit a dog (Fama) hard enough on a prong to flip them over backwards out of a truck, and I've trained several dogs with nothing but verbal corrections.


I called Bud my 2x4 dog. He needed some hard corrections! I am a soft person who prefers to coax and shape, but with some animals that simply does not work. Or if it did you would be at it for months. Bud was an amazing dog, but he was not for the faint of heart. I wouldn't say handler aggressive put he had no qualms about coming up the leash if he felt I was wrong. You would have loved him. I was way over my head, but I tread water well.
There are also situations that warrant a one and done correction. Those moments when it is imperative that the lesson stick and right now.


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## perrymel (Oct 28, 2021)

UPDATE we are slowly making our way through the course and working so far. I mean we are not that far into the course, but taking our time and making sure we go through each step and don't skip anything ( even if I think my dog knows some of this already) We are just about ready to go to the E collar training for heeling , I just need to work on the right hand turn a little more and I want Gabriel to be comfortable with it all. His come to heel when asked is awesome, he is a smart boy! I maybe misread above ( I didn't want to read all from the begining) BUT there is no harsh training in Haz's teaching so far, I think is method is fair and alot of it is for me to watch and read the signs of my dog . It is going to take longer than 6 weeks for sure, but we are making progress and as we move further through the program I will update ! I want to get through this as I really need to work on his aggressiveness at the fence !! he is driving me crazy, he is fine out side the fence, but anyone or any dog goes by, he loses his mind!! But that will come at the end of this course as we need to move slowly!! Gabriel is now 20 months old, so I guess the nutty teenage years lol. All in all in, the end, I am enjoying my learning and his training, and I am always open to learn more !!


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

If you're correcting a dog in a situation that could potentially be very dangerous for the dog (running away near a hiway for instance) you do what needs to be done to get the message across. Recall is number 1 and there is no 1B. But you need to correct a known behavior.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

WNGD said:


> If you're correcting a dog in a situation that could potentially be very dangerous for the dog (running away near a hiway for instance) you do what needs to be done to get the message across. Recall is number 1 and there is no 1B. But you need to correct a known behavior.


When Sabs was a pup we lived near a busy road. She got excited and slipped through the gate and ran onto the road. My response was immediate, I was the one on the road she was wanting to see, and harsh enough to stick. Cars don't give dogs second chances. It was not a known behavior; she had never tried it before. It was a severe enough risk that my actions were necessary.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

Sabis mom said:


> When Sabs was a pup we lived near a busy road. She got excited and slipped through the gate and ran onto the road. My response was immediate, I was the one on the road she was wanting to see, and harsh enough to stick. Cars don't give dogs second chances. It was not a known behavior; she had never tried it before. It was a severe enough risk that my actions were necessary.


When my GR was maybe 6 months old, I had just started taking training seriously and wanting to achieve more than sit stay come, my sister opened the front door he took off, like flew out the door down the street no looking back, at the end of our street is a busy road, my heart dropped, and we had started training a thing called “chase come”, pretty straight forward, start on a leash toss a treat when the dog is done call come and run the other way like a squirrel on fire, catch reward like crazy, obviously building on it, so I threw out a Hail Mary and called “come”, it worked he stopped turned around and came back.. now of course I use assurances these days because I’m not that good to have a bulletproof recall, but in that moment I was relieved as I was surprised he listened lol.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Sabis mom said:


> I called Bud my 2x4 dog. He needed some hard corrections! I am a soft person who prefers to coax and shape, but with some animals that simply does not work. Or if it did you would be at it for months. Bud was an amazing dog, but he was not for the faint of heart. I wouldn't say handler aggressive put he had no qualms about coming up the leash if he felt I was wrong. You would have loved him. I was way over my head, but I tread water well.
> There are also situations that warrant a one and done correction. Those moments when it is imperative that the lesson stick and right now.


Fama came with a ton of baggage. She was everything aggressive and loved punking people out.

This particular incident was the last straw in a month long training adventure trying to get her to load up into a truck without biting the soldiers that were in the back, just for fun.

It worked.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

David Winners said:


> Fama came with a ton of baggage. She was everything aggressive and loved punking people out.
> 
> This particular incident was the last straw in a month long training adventure trying to get her to load up into a truck without biting the soldiers that were in the back, just for fun.
> 
> It worked.


I think you and fama have a great story, call someone in Hollywood, get it in production.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Carter Smith said:


> I think you and fama have a great story, call someone in Hollywood, get it in production.


I'm not sure that I have the contacts to make that happen 😂

We were part of a documentary that fizzled out due to lack of controversy. We did a few interviews but then nothing further. It was with Manny, the same guy that did Black Fish.


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## Carter Smith (Apr 29, 2016)

David Winners said:


> I'm not sure that I have the contacts to make that happen 😂
> 
> We were part of a documentary that fizzled out due to lack of controversy. We did a few interviews but then nothing further. It was with Manny, the same guy that did Black Fish.


I’m sure many people in that industry have passed on gems, just need the right person.. finish your story and take the camper out west


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## ctu24 (Oct 1, 2006)

WNGD said:


> On topic (necessary hard corrections) but with Beckman's Dog Training


I stumbled upon Beckman’s YouTube channel several months ago and watched a vast majority of his videos out of curiosity and feel the need to add my two cents even though it doesn’t address the original poster’s question. This is one of his milder videos but the more you watch of Beckman, he comes across as quite angry, impatient, abusive and egotistical. I can only imagine what goes on behind the scenes in his training program. I get that he is dealing with a lot of “hard” dogs with various aggression problems and owners who are desperate for help that want quick fixes. I’m not saying there can’t be value in a well-timed correction in certain situations but timing is key and a lot of dog owners probably are not that attentive or adept. Beckman’s videos show a tremendous amount of hard leash popping. It pains me to think of all the dog owners out there watching these videos, trying to employ these methods and most likely causing trachea damage from flat collars or nerve damage from the head halters (which should not be used the way Beckman uses them). His “go get” recall method probably does work in a sense but who wants to teach a dog to recall out of fear and intimidation? It may achieve quick results but in the long run I feel like it breaks down the overall trust and bond that I personally would seek to build with any dog. I also don’t like the way his program is based on setting dogs up to fail. I’d rather take a slower and more positive route of teaching impulse control at thresholds than confusing my dog by acting like I’m going to allow it to go out the door only to suddenly jerk it back to forcefully grab its attention. I have a very “soft” dog that would completely shut down with his methods. If you watch the body language of the shy, timid, more fearful dogs he attempts to train, they look terrified of him and it’s clear he’s not interested in building their trust. I think the appeal in his videos, especially with his sensationalist titles, is seeing him so quickly integrate extremely undersocialized and often aggressive dogs with other dogs. Obviously there is some value in getting these dogs around other dogs, especially because there can be much more value in a dog-dog correction (which has to be with the right dog). However, I do often wonder what happens when the owners get these dogs home and have a sudden false sense of security that their dogs are suddenly “fixed” and I hope they’re not putting other dogs/people in harms way.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

I am so pleased that you found the course money well spent. 

Haz does have a reactive course that will teach you about marking and punishment for reactive type behavior.

He goes through different options for tools which tools to use for what and how they relate to the type of dog you have and the behavior they exhibit. 

You honestly may find that course very helpful with the fence running. 

Knowing how to give meaning to NO really helped my dogs in many ways.


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## Pemi (3 mo ago)

Haz puts some great free videos out there, too. I've learned a higher level of understanding- sport training and "pet" training, by paying close attention and watching these videos. Sure, he's arrogant, but that's typical and he does prioritize the dog, over all else. I like his stuff a lot. I also respect his view of "life-long learner" - he is willing and able to learn and adjust based on learning new approaches, and seeks those learning opportunities out. Some won't do this, or are stuck in one methodology. I wouldn't hesitate to train with him, given a chance.


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## BdeAngelo (Dec 13, 2021)

Congrats to German Shepherds Forum member @Blitzkrieg1 _aka_ Haz.

Said it before, and I'll say it again: Haz is the best thing that happened for dogs in Canada in a long time and on multiple levels.

New Toronto location is now up. He just opened his new Woodstock location not long ago and has a new 7000 sq foot training facility being built at his head quarters in Puslinch, Ontario.

Toronto, Ontario





Woodstock, Ontario


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## Cookiemonsta (Dec 9, 2021)

WNGD said:


> On topic (necessary hard corrections) but with Beckman's Dog Training


This video is a joke. His training strategy, in his own words, is "hail mary" lol.

I can't speak for all of beckman's training but this video shows how clueless he is imo. Watch how Haz approaches these same problems and you'll see the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and someone who doesn't.

And those are flat collar corrections beckman is using. Those aren't hard corrections. Those are what are called ineffective corrections and using the wrong tool for the job.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Cookiemonsta said:


> This video is a joke. His training strategy, in his own words, is "hail mary" lol.
> 
> I can't speak for all of beckman's training but this video shows how clueless he is imo. Watch how Haz approaches these same problems and you'll see the difference between someone who knows what they are doing and someone who doesn't.
> 
> And those are flat collar corrections beckman is using. Those aren't hard corrections. Those are what are called ineffective corrections and using the wrong tool for the job.


I didn't wath his video before sou said something. I agree this isn't an example of good training. I don't agree with any of his assessments here. Granted it's easier to see things on a video than in the moment, but this is fear based agression.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

That video is just stupid. All that hype for a simple training problem. It's a confused pup that doesn't know what to do that is defaulting to natural GSD behavior. This isn't a trainer I would follow or look to for guidance. If a 6 month old snarky GSD pup has you out of your comfort zone and throwing hail Mary ideas you shouldn't be calling yourself a trainer.

A problem I have with a lot of YouTube training videos is the 45 minutes they spend with the dog showing you how bad it is. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and allowing the dog to punk you out for an hour is counter productive IMO. 

Again, this is a pup, not an adult man eater with a bear trap head. I understand the owners being confused but this is everyday stuff for a trainer.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I didn’t watch the whole video with sound but it was funny how the trainer was dragging a pup who didn’t want to follow him or interact with the other dog, after the dobbie who also didn’t want to be followed or get engaged with the trainer or the gsd pup.


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

dogma13 said:


> This is gold


I was trained by a “gentleman “ who must have been marine special ops drill instructor . I may have already noted this . Anyway the dogs were almost sacred for him he would take us down a line of tied out dogs and instruct us what to do then we had to give detailed report of results. A mistake was often was rewarded with a hit from a bamboo or willow stick, a lesser one you would get a dressing down in front of everyone starting with something like intelligence being lower than worm poop It was more graphic than that . With an e collar on your leg you might be withering on the ground . He would describe everything the dog showed and you had better see it the second time around . To this day some 30 years later I still look at each dog and what they are showing. I’m not right all the time but at least I see something even though I don’t see well myself . 
A number of years ago I saw a lady I only knew passingly and from other. Bloody a dog’s neck with a prong collar she was completely out of line . I kinda lost it as I was a guest trainer trying to help this club . I called her out pretty roughly I guess but it was totally out of line what she did . I also told the club trainer as she really didn’t see what happened untill after the fact . I was really hot I told her not to ever call me and I’d never be back I have to admit I was a loose cannon one of the few times I’ve really lost it . I don’t remover if I tipped a blind over or the jump By the time I got to my dualy truck I had cooled down so I didn’t do a burn out across the field although it probably crossed my mind I’m sure. I never saw fit to use heavy force on any collar On my GSD Or my Aussie Or any other dog If the training exercise wasn’t going well I got it by note book and wrote down what was not working then sat down and looked at “ fixes” or corrective action. Plan B or C as we say You can always back up and start over but if you have already made a serious mistake , well it’s going to take awhile to undo it negative training has to be well thought out before applying it . There maybe a better way


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