# How do I add more protein to natural balance??



## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

I switch Bella food to natural balance. I was wondering is there anything I can add to add more protein ? Their food doesn't have enough protein for her


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Are you doing an elimination diet to test for food allergies? What is the protein content? Is this a working dog? You could just use a bit of the same protein or carb. Which natural balance "flavor" are you using.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Protein is a calorie dense nutrient and many of the high protein diets are extremely high in calories and can quickly lead to weight gain. With over 50% of dogs in the U.S. considered overweight or obese, dog owners need to be aware of where those extra calories are hiding. If a dog has kidney or liver issues consuming too much protein can increase the workload on these organs and upset the balance of nutrients leading to exacerbation of disease.

Rather than look for a dog food that contains excessive levels of protein you should find one that is specifically formulated for your dog’s lifestyle, life stage, and size. A working sled dog, for example, will have significantly different nutrient and caloric requirements than the average pet dog that ventures outside for a few walks a day and spends the rest of the time lounging. These two dogs should not be fed the same diet.

Puppies, meanwhile, require more protein than adult dogs because their bodies are busy growing. Among breeds of puppies there are different requirements for nutrients as well. For instance large breed puppies like Labrador retrievers need a much different diet than a Yorkie for optimal growth. Feeding large breed puppies something that is too high in protein may make them put on weight too quickly causing abnormal joint development and making them more prone to issues like arthritis in the future.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

DutchKarin said:


> Are you doing an elimination diet to test for food allergies? What is the protein content? Is this a working dog? You could just use a bit of the same protein or carb. Which natural balance "flavor" are you using.


Yes we are using the food for allergies reasons. No she's a family dog although we are verrrrry active. The protein is 21.0 minimum and the flavor is "Potato and Duck"


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Debanneball said:


> Protein is a calorie dense nutrient and many of the high protein diets are extremely high in calories and can quickly lead to weight gain. With over 50% of dogs in the U.S. considered overweight or obese, dog owners need to be aware of where those extra calories are hiding. If a dog has kidney or liver issues consuming too much protein can increase the workload on these organs and upset this balance of nutrients leading to exacerbation of disease.
> 
> Rather than look for a dog food that contains excessive levels of protein you should find one that is specifically formulated for your dog?s lifestyle, life stage, and size. A working sled dog, for example, will have significantly different nutrient and caloric requirements than the average pet dog that ventures outside for a few walks a day and spends the rest of the time lounging. These two dogs should not be fed the same diet.
> 
> Puppies, meanwhile, require more protein than adult dogs because their bodies are busy growing. Among breeds of puppies there are different requirements for nutrients as well. For instance large breed puppies like Labrador retrievers need a much different diet than a Yorkie for optimal growth. Feeding large breed puppies something that is too high in protein may make them put on weight too quickly causing abnormal joint development and making them more prone to issues like arthritis in the future.


Well she's seven months and 63 pounds we are very active she's not a working dog


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Again, are you doing an elimination diet to determine what she might be allergic too? Why did you think that the dog had a food allergy? If you are doing an elimination diet, then all you feed is natural balance duck and potato. Ideally this is a novel protein and carb for the dog. You could add a bit of pure duck if you wanted but the whole idea is to use this one food for 60 days and nothing else. The food is the treat period nothing else. And yes, this is very difficult on us more than the dog. After 60 days and assuming that she is doing well on the food, you can add one thing (in its pure form - e.g., pure turkey or something) at a time and wait for a couple weeks and see. This should have been very carefully explained to you. If the vet said, oh your dog has allergies use natural balance, and no other instructions I would not trust the vet on allergy issues. 

If this is an elimination diet, then I would say the 21% is probably fine for 60 days for a pet dog. 21% is not that bad. 

Careful with food allergies with switching the carb and protein a lot or you will run out of novel proteins to use. Stick with it and see what happens first.

Good luck.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

DutchKarin said:


> Again, are you doing an elimination diet to determine what she might be allergic too? Why did you think that the dog had a food allergy? If you are doing an elimination diet, then all you feed is natural balance duck and potato. Ideally this is a novel protein and carb for the dog. You could add a bit of pure duck if you wanted but the whole idea is to use this one food for 60 days and nothing else. The food is the treat period nothing else. And yes, this is very difficult on us more than the dog. After 60 days and assuming that she is doing well on the food, you can add one thing (in its pure form - e.g., pure turkey or something) at a time and wait for a couple weeks and see. This should have been very carefully explained to you. If the vet said, oh your dog has allergies use natural balance, and no other instructions I would not trust the vet on allergy issues.
> 
> If this is an elimination diet, then I would say the 21% is probably fine for 60 days for a pet dog. 21% is not that bad.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining this to me and yes that's exactly the vet said. She actually said her dog went through the same thing same symptoms and all and she gave me the food she switched her dog to. I honestly believe it's the chicken in the food !


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Quick question if I notice weight lost do I feed her more ?


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

With every food the calorie count can vary so any food change you want to watch out and potentially change the amount. She could also gain weight. But at 7 months she will gain and plump and thin out again. Try to keep her in a good range. I fed natural balance to an allergy dog for many years and he was always a very good weight. If you really wanted you could buy a duck and roast it. Try to squeeze out the excess fat (they are a fatty bird). But I don't think it is necessary.

Could be chicken, that is not uncommon. Just be religious about not using anything but that food for the trial period and watch other family members and friends. They may try to sneak her something. I always think you want to do this once right. It is a pain.

What are her symptoms?

Good luck


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

DutchKarin said:


> With every food the calorie count can vary so any food change you want to watch out and potentially change the amount. She could also gain weight. But at 7 months she will gain and plump and thin out again. Try to keep her in a good range. I fed natural balance to an allergy dog for many years and he was always a very good weight. If you really wanted you could buy a duck and roast it. Try to squeeze out the excess fat (they are a fatty bird). But I don't think it is necessary.
> 
> Could be chicken, that is not uncommon. Just be religious about not using anything but that food for the trial period and watch other family members and friends. They may try to sneak her something. I always think you want to do this once right. It is a pain.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot ! And scratching excessively biting her feet and around her tail she doesn't have fleas or ticks. She also sneezes a lot


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

This sounds a lot like environment allergies. Just saying. Keep and open mind. You could try a course of allergy meds and see if that makes a difference. (Never use decongestants however).


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Thanks a lot ! And scratching excessively biting her feet and around her tail she doesn't have fleas or ticks. She also sneezes a lot


 Stella used to scratch and bite, no fleas..we put her on Blue Wilderness Salmon grain free, no more scratching..


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Debanneball said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks a lot ! And scratching excessively biting her feet and around her tail she doesn't have fleas or ticks. She also sneezes a lot
> ...


Bella was on the large breed puppy chicken flavor. Honest to god I forgot they had a salmon one why didn't I think of that !!!


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

DutchKarin said:


> This sounds a lot like environment allergies. Just saying. Keep and open mind. You could try a course of allergy meds and see if that makes a difference. (Never use decongestants however).


What's environment allergies ?


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Atopy is an inherited allergy to environmental allergens, such as dust mites, trees, grasses, weeds, molds and epidermals (wool, human dander, cat dander, etc.). Clinical signs usually start between 1 and 4 years of age and initially may be seasonal (usually spring-fall) or non-seasonal (year round). 

Signs of atopy in dogs include moderate-severe itching/scratching/rubbing/licking/chewing with associated redness and hair loss of the face (muzzle, around eyes), ears (repeated infections), neck, arm pits, groin, legs and paws (excessive foot licking is common with red-brown salivary staining of the hair between the toes). With time, the itching can involve the entire body and the skin may darken and become thick and "elephant-like." Secondary bacterial and yeast infections (red bumps, scabs, foul odor, and greasy coat) are common due to the abnormally inflamed skin surface and self-trauma. "Hot spots" and "lick granulomas" (raised ulcers/sores on front or rear legs above the paw that the dog constantly licks) are also commonly seen with canine atopy. Signs of atopy in cats include scratching, excessive licking with hair loss/bald spots on the groin/stomach area, sides of the trunk, thighs, head, neck, legs and/or ears. There may or may not be evidence of self-trauma/secondary infection with red bumps, scabs, scratches and ear discharge. Some cats with atopy develop "eosinophilic granuloma complex" (raised ulcers/sores/swellings on lip, chin, mouth, paws, stomach, or back of thighs).

It is not unusual for dogs and cats with atopy to have other allergies such as food allergy (up to 30%) or flea bite hypersensitivity (75-80%) which may complicate/worsen the itching and secondary infection. There are also other diseases such as mite infections that can be present and may need to be ruled out prior to allergy testing.

Atopic dogs and cats have an "allergic threshold" level that is unique to each individual. If this allergen level is exceeded, clinical signs of itching/infection occur. The "allergen load" is the accumulation of different allergens - foods, fleas, pollen, dust mites, molds - to which the atopic patient is sensitive. Visible signs of allergic skin disease occurs whenever the allergen load exceeds the allergic threshold. Dry skin and secondary bacterial/yeast infections can add to the allergen load and help push an animal over the "allergic threshold" causing increased itching and hair loss.

Atopy is diagnosed by clinical signs and history as well as eliminating other possible causes of itching. Intradermal allergy testing and/or serologic (blood) testing are used to determine which allergens the patient is allergic to in order to formulate an allergy vaccine for therapy. Skin testing is the most accurate test and is the initial test of choice for most animals. A mild sedative is given and one of the pet's sides is shaved. Allergens are injected in the skin and are compared to a positive and negative control after 15-20 minutes and again 4 hours later. Reactions (red bumps similar to a mosquito bite) are then graded on a scale of 0 (negative) to 4 + (highest positive) based on their size, redness and firmness. Any reaction equal to or greater than a 2+ is considered significant if the patient has exposure to that allergen and that allergen is pollinating or present in the environment when the pet is itchy. It is very important to correlate the positive reactions with the allergens present in the pet's environment both indoor and within half-mile radius outdoors, and seasonal itching history.
A serologic (blood) test for allergies is also available and can be helpful in animals that cannot be skin tested, or in combination with the skin test. However, false positive reactions are common so careful interpretation is needed. In general, we prefer to use the blood test in combination with the skin test in most cases. Unfortunately, skin testing or blood testing for food allergies has not been proven to be accurate - a 10-12 week strict food elimination diet is the only way to determine if your pet has a concurrent food allergy. Pets must be off antihistamines (hydroxyzine, benadryl, chlorpheneramine) for a minimum of 10 days and off corticosteroids (prednisone) for 3-4 weeks before skin testing.

Most animals do not "outgrow" their allergies - in fact, most patients worsen with time if not treated. A "complete treatment plan" is best - incorporating environmental management, allergy vaccine injections, controlling other concurrent allergies through a restricted diet trial and strict flea control, treatment of secondary skin and ear infections, antihistamines, essential fatty acids, and frequent bathing with medicated shampoos/rinses. In general, 90% of atopic dogs and cats can be satisfactorily controlled using this plan. Allergy vaccines are effective alone or with minimal medication (at least 50% improvement) in approximately 70-80% of atopic dogs and 70% of atopic cats.
It is important to remember that allergies are a life long condition and will always require some management. The treatment that works best for your pet may be different from any other pet with allergies. We may have to try several different therapies to find the one best suited for your pet. Therapy should give your pet a good quality of life but usually does not eliminate all itching; some itching and occasional infections may still occur but should be much easier to resolve or control.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Hey Debanneball.

Just wanted to say that I have had several interactions over a 20 year period with the head of dermatology at UCDavis. He would say just about exactly the same thing that you just did. 

Just wanted to say you are in good company.

My own experience...the whole wonderful world of allergies is complicated and every dog seems a bit different. My current dog seems to have environmental allergies as he has a seasonal feature to his leg chewing and hotspots. 

Good luck with Bella.


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