# Comparing Two Litters and Choosing Sex



## Hackez (Oct 28, 2009)

Hello,

First let me say that I appreciate any advice that is given. My mother and I have owned many dogs in the past but this will be our first German Shepherd. We currently have two dogs, an 11 y/o female Golden Retriever and a 5 y/o female Lhasa Apsa. As far as temperament both are extremely passive/friendly towards humans and other animals. (Excluding squirrels and such of course which the Retriever tries to "fetch" LOL!)

We have been trying to decide what sex would be the best for our newest addition but have been receiving conflicting information from breeders. I will be the primary caregiver/handler and was unsure if the sex of the dog would affect its interaction with me adversely as far as training, bonding, etc.

I am looking for a GSD with a medium drive. Although my primary focus is companionship, I currently participate in College Track and would love a running partner. I'm aware that until a certain age strenuous exercise is unwise. But once he hits that age I would enjoy walking/running several miles a day with my GSD. I WILL be enrolling in basic obedience classes as well.

Anyhow, onto the two litters complete with pedigrees.

*<u>First Litter (Black & Tan Puppies):</u>*

Yano Von Benedict 

Sara Von Green 

*<u>Second Litter (Solid Black Puppies):</u>*

Yano Von Benedict 

Zelda Von Pflegen 

Any advice you can give with regards to which you think would be a better fit for me or in general would be great. If you could explain your reasoning so I could increase my knowledgebase that would be appreciated too!


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

How did you narrow your selection to this breeder? to these litters?

Have you been able to visit & interact with the parent dogs, the pups?

Are any of these dogs worked/titled (didn't see anything on the website) - not sure what you mean by medium drive, what do you want to do with your pup? (wait until 18 - 24 months for sustained running, especially on hard surfaces; even then I'd still do joint support re diet & hip & elbow Xrays beforehand (make sure the vet is experienced with OFA's ))

I don't think sex of the dog vs handler matters.


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## Hackez (Oct 28, 2009)

Thanks for the prompt and informative response!

We started by contacting GSDCA and then doing individual research on local breeders in our area. We wanted to avoid the traumatic experience of having a puppy shipped. Our ideal range was within 200 miles but the closer the better. Having a breeder who is close by to help when necessary is a great asset to have. I would say we went through roughly thirty different GSD breeders until we came upon this one. (There was quite a few Puppy Mills/BYB's to sift through sadly) 

Their facility is nice and the parents are beautiful exhibiting wonderful temperaments. We will be making another visit within a week before making a final decision but are relatively sure. Their dogs are socialized regularly and they exhibit a genuine care treating them as family dogs which I like.

I don't believe these dogs are titled, but they are worked regularly with regards to protection using bite suits and sleeves. I believe they do agility with their dogs as well. I'll be sure to get additional information on this.

Our main concern with sex is our two current female dogs. They are both extremely passive though with regards to asserting dominance. What sex would be "ideal" for adding to the pack?

By medium drive I was referring to energy level. I was looking for a dog that would be content with 2-3 hours of strenuous exercise daily. (Playing tug, fetch, etc. is not included in that) For my GSD I would like to walk, run, swim and possibly do agility with the dog in our yard as I believe he would enjoy the mental/physical stimulation. Its definitely more of a companion/pet than for any type of competing/showing.

Thanks!


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Personally if I had two females I would get a male.


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## Hackez (Oct 28, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: ChicagocaninePersonally if I had two females I would get a male.


Thank you for the feedback. We were leaning towards a male but just wanted more opinions on this.

I forgot to mention that one of our main focuses on our search for a puppy was temperament and health. (Especially with regards to hip/elbow certifications via OFA)


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Me too, I would get a male. GSD's are not GR's or Lhasa's. They may not be as laid back or passive.

I don't think sex will make any difference to how the pup bonds with you. My male pup, Havoc, is just over 2. He is my obedience competetion dog, he prefers my husband. Papa is IT in Havoc's world. 

I have never heard of this breeder but it sounds as if you have been doing your research which is smart. There are many differnet lines of GSD's and many people have some pretty strong preferences in what they prefer and think the better dog. 

It sounds as if these my be showlines. Nothing wrong with that. If you are happy with this breeder and like the health and temperament than go for it. Just insure they hips and elbows have passed and the dogs are healthy.

Good luck and welcome to the board! You will find the GSD is the best dog around.


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## Hackez (Oct 28, 2009)

Thanks for the support Kathy!









The breeder is indeed a small one but I enjoy the fact that they only own a few dogs. They are family oriented and tend to spend more time with their dogs individually than I would think is possible with larger more well known breeders. (This is my opinion of course and likely more reflective of well known breeders with a moderate to large amount of breeding stock)

The ratings on all of their breeding stock are OFA Good/Normal which helps ease my worry with regards to hip & elbow issues. I had a close call with another breeder I almost went with. All of his stock were fair/normal but upon looking closer several of his siblings had moderate hip dysplasia. I'm just thankful I did a bit of research before diving in on a puppy with increased risk of health issues.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

This sounds like a decent breeder. I prefer a small breeder that only breeds every now and then too. I think home raised pups get more attention and socialization.

I did go look at the pedigrees. I am in Iraq and my computer is sometimes slow so I did not look at all of them. Looks to be some working lines too.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also would go with a male , if I had two female dogs,

I'm sure you've explained to the breeder, just what you want regarding temperament so hopefully she will be able to pick those type of temps out in her puppies and give you an idea of what puppy you should lean towards that will fit into your lifestyle.

I can't tell you which litter to go with, but definately temperament and health are first on my list,,and I am always gravitating towards a dark dog, but that's "me"..)

Good luck with your upcoming puppy! 
diane


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hi Jeremy, 

How refreshing to see someone put this much thought and effort into finding a good breeder. Hope you get a lot of info that will help, and not make your head spin too much!

I agree that if you already have two female dogs in the house, a male would fit in better. Females can get very jealous of each other, and a GSD is big and strong enough to cause harm. Many people have multiple females in the same household without problems, but sometimes female GSDs that have gotten along fine for years wake up one morning and decide they don't want the competition any more. So just to be safe, I would recommend a male for your situation. 

I took a look at the pedigrees. Yano, the sire of both litters is working lines. I was thinking as you described your lifestyle and your goals for you and your dog, that a working line would fit in very well! 

What colour is Yano? From the pedigree I see that his sire is sable and his Dam black. Sara, the litter's dam looks like a mix of working and show lines, from what I can tell, though not familiar with show lines much. I think if temperament is good in the parents, you would end up with nice puppies. 

The female in the second pairing is all working lines. You would only get an all black litter if Yano is also solid black. Personally, I would prefer the second pairing as I'm not sure what the goal of mixing lines in the first litter is, but you can ask and discuss it with the breeder. 

Ask the breeder how they cam upon these pairings, what their goals are, if they are repeat breedings, how the previous progeny turned out, and so on. For your purposes, I think either breeding would produce a puppy that will meet your needs and expectations. When it comes to choosing a puppy, I would get a lot of input from the breeders as to which pup they feel would be a good match for you. They will know each pup quite well after living and interacting with them for the first 8 weeks. 

I wouldn't worry about the colour in your choice, I would just focus on the personality, energy level, and temperament of your pup.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

The first bitch is a combo of working lines, with both American and German show lines... the 2nd bitch is all working lines. The sire on both litters is the same... I'd probably look @ a male pup from the 2nd female BUT I DEFINITELY WANT a WORKING DOG. If you're not used to working line dogs they are a different ball o' wax than show lines and will both want and need to be trained beyond basic obedience. The 1st bitch might give you less drive and a calmer dog. 

I'd talk with the breeder in depth about what I was planning to do with the pup, and what my experience is as a trainer was, and if I was thinking and/or planning on joining a Schutzhund club to train in that area.


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## Hackez (Oct 28, 2009)

This breeder makes use of the Volhard Puppy Test to assist in placing their puppies in appropriate homes. So hopefully out of the three solid black males that are available in the second pairing one will be a solid match for me. The first pairing only has females available, so it makes the selection rather easy for me.

Yano is solid black. As for obedience I was planning on at a minimum doing basic. Depending on the clubs in my area and prices (research on my part needed) going beyond that is definitely a possibility.

Since I have your expertise at my fingertips already, what do you recommend to help strengthen the bond between owner and puppy when they are really young? I was planning on isolating it from my other two dogs (other than socialization which is a MUST of course) so that it would form a stronger bond with me. Putting a piece of clothing with my scent in its crate was another idea. Any input is definitely appreciated!


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Well I don't know where you are but 
1) shipping is really not traumatic for pups when it's done properly (so that would not be a concern for me at all)
2) for a home raised pup, I'd go with a pup from someone such as this - looks like there will be some coaties























For bonding with your pup, just keep the crate closeby, eg, in your bedroom with you at night, in the kitchen etc or wherever you are during the day, also have pup tethered to you; lots of positive interaction will give you a confident, happy pup









If you have a few hours a day to devote to your pup, you'll do fine with most GSD's; I'd look at doing agility with a club though - more fun & challenging/educational for your dog than staying at home, great contacts for you (people that like to do the same kind of stuff with their dogs). Get out now & observe the puppy classes that are going on locally so you can find a trainer you like - sometimes the 'best' classes end up full from wait lists ...


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