# Pet Insurance...Worth it?



## KatieToth (Jun 25, 2015)

I am wondering if it is worth getting pet insurance or not. My friends who got it have mixed feelings- some think totally worth it and some say waste of $$. Thoughts?


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## BauerWhite (Mar 18, 2015)

I know nothing about pet insurance and I've never owned pet insurance... so I'm probably not the best person to answer your question.

But that being said, insurance is inherently negative expected value. These companies are in business to make money, so on average, you're financially better off not buying the insurance. 

My advice would be to not get the insurance if you can afford to pay for the costs of treatment for your dog if it gets sick/injured. If you couldn't afford a really expensive vet bill, then you should probably buy the insurance.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm with *BauerWhite* on this one. If a $5k vet bill appears tomorrow and paying it won't put you on the street, and you have a healthy dog with reasonable expectation of continuing good health, then not having insurance will probably be cheaper in the long run. If not, paying the $50-100/month may be a safer play.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

I have Healthy paws. 
The cost is $50 monthly.
My dog is 16 months old. 
We've already had 2 claims, reimbursement within two weeks.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Check the fine print. What are their exceptions. If so sports will they pay for support related injuries, for example.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Please do a forum search here for "pet insurance" and posts by KR16. KR16 has done an expert analysis of the fine print in many policies. Some policies really are nearly worthless because of all the exclusions. A very few are excellent. You have to be a careful consumer to know the difference.

Thousand dollar (and three thousand dollar...) vet bill are already becoming more frequent experiences as veterinary medicine advances and crosses over human medical advances. That's only going to accelerate. It's already happening with canine cancer, where radiation treatment is now available at a few vet school clinics around the country (for several thousand dollars). Specialist care for all sorts of maladies (ortho, internal medicine, eyes, even teeth) quickly generates 4-figure bills too. _That_ is what you are insuring for -- not routine piddly wellness or minor injury bills that are a couple hundred bucks.

ETA: you _want _the insurance company to win the bet and make money on your "good" policy! I live in a Gulf State and am insured against hurricanes, but I don't want to ever see another one. When I lived in California, we insured against earthquakes, but I never wanted to need that insurance either. I have life insurance, but I _really _don't want to need that. If our life insurance term expires with us having paid 20 years of premiums without ever making a claim, I consider that a good outcome. You absolutely want to pay an insurance premium and be blessed enough to never need it -- that's not a "bad" financial decision; it's good luck.


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## Wags (Dec 17, 2015)

I agree with some other posters here, my parents never really had a lot of money, and they had pet insurance, which was a blessing for them, because when our Great Dane got an ear infection so bad that he couldn't walk on his own, and they had to rush him to the emergency room the day after Christmas, the vet bill was ridiculous, but the insurance paid for it. So it is a good thing IF you get a good policy and IF you cant afford the bill otherwise. My husband and I are in a different financial situation and know we could pay the bill ourselves, or borrow it from other people if we needed and we would be fine. So we probably won't get pet insurance, when it comes down to it, it is a personal decision on whether you need it or not. Just if you decide to get it, make sure to do your research and find a policy that is good for you.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I will never have a dog without pet insurance. For $45 a month, I was able to get medical treatment/diagnostics for my dog totaling >$5k. I don't want to determine medical treatment based on how much it will cost. If I don't make another claim (unlikely) it will have been worth it for the rest of my dogs life. 

I recommend healthy paws and petplan.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Two dogs, in two years with out of pocket cost of just over $21000.00.


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## robt555 (Jun 12, 2002)

I didn't have pet insurance on my last dog, but wished I did. It's a tough decision to make when the vet tells you that treatment costs $2,000 and your puppy still may not survive.

I currently have PetPlan, but haven't filed any claims.


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## Lykaios (Nov 18, 2015)

I just got my pup signed up for pet insurance, which I should have done a while ago! Would've saved me a about $500 this year. As a college student who is already paying lots of thousands extra per year in rent just to keep my dog, let alone his expensive food and supplements, I would not be able to afford a $5000 vet bill. 

My dog's life is worth everything to me, but the truth is, without pet insurance a $5-10K vet bill would not likely be an option for me. So pet insurance is 100% worth it. For $40 per month, I get excellent coverage and a low deductible and I will be able to cover whatever medical care is needed. HOPEFULLY I will be losing money with pet insurance, and my guy stays problem free! If thats the case, its still not a waste of money because the peace of mind is worth it as well. 
I signed up for HealthyPaws after much research and have heard only good things about them. They also cover hip dysplasia which I can hardly believe!


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Lykaios said:


> I just got my pup signed up for pet insurance, which I should have done a while ago! Would've saved me a about $500 this year. As a college student who is already paying lots of thousands extra per year in rent just to keep my dog, let alone his expensive food and supplements, I would not be able to afford a $5000 vet bill.
> 
> My dog's life is worth everything to me, but the truth is, without pet insurance a $5-10K vet bill would not likely be an option for me. So pet insurance is 100% worth it. For $40 per month, I get excellent coverage and a low deductible and I will be able to cover whatever medical care is needed. HOPEFULLY I will be losing money with pet insurance, and my guy stays problem free! If thats the case, its still not a waste of money because the peace of mind is worth it as well.
> I signed up for HealthyPaws after much research and have heard only good things about them. *They also cover hip dysplasia which I can hardly believe!*


*

*Healthy Paws, which is what I have,covers HD after one year of joining.


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## karma_ (Apr 23, 2012)

I've had Healthy Paws since 2011 and have no complaints -- then again, I've also barely used it. It started off at just shy of $40/month with $500 deductible and 90% payout, now it's at $49 for my 10yo GSD. Luckily, I haven't actually had to use it past my deductible.

As with any other type of insurance, it's more of a peace of mind thing. I don't care about paying $600/year if it means 90% of the rather high vet bill is reimbursed. Healthy Paws seemed to have a high reputation and low complaints, so I chose them and haven't had any issues so far. The amount of people I've seen praise them since singing up for continuing to cover cancer claims and other expensive treatments is just icing on the cake.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Findlay said:


> [/B]Healthy Paws, which is what I have,covers HD after one year of joining.


The dog must not show any signs of it during that year and the dog is only covered if they are under the age of 6


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

To me, pet insurance is worth it. If something catastrophic happens, you don't need to make decisions based on money, and you can't put a price on that. We have Trupanion for both of our dogs. They've easily reimbursed over $10,000 for Roxy over the years (cancer, vertebral spondylosis, arthritis). It's nice not having to be left with little savings if a health problem pops up. They've also covered about $1500 so far with Bash (giardia, food intolerances). I'd gladly lose money and never have to use it again, of course, but it's there in case something happens.


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## Augustine (Nov 22, 2014)

If you already have thousands to spend on vet bills, then sure. But if not, then you're better off making an emergency fund instead.

Pet insurance is really only worth it for people who already have financial security.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Augustine said:


> If you already have thousands to spend on vet bills, then sure. But if not, then you're better off making an emergency fund instead.
> 
> *Pet insurance is really only worth it for people who already have financial security.*


I think Augustine has a point. When we were raising our kids, we wouldn't have been able to afford a monthly pet insurance bill.

BUT, We always owned mutts. They ate the cheapest canned dog food (one can each day), had very little vet care and they lived very long lives.

Ps. I chose Healthy paws for the same reason as Karma: people seem to be very satisfied with them.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

llombardo said:


> The dog must not show any signs of it during that year and the dog is only covered if they are under the age of 6


The HD clause is only applicable if they are under 6 prior to joining Healthy Paws. If join after 6, then the dog will not be covered for HS.

If you joined when the dog was 4 and the dog is diagnosed with HD when he's 7, it is covered.

Also important to note, most insurance companies will not cover an ACL surgery for the 2nd knee.They consider it a pre-existing condition. HP covers both knees.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Totally. It paid itself back quickly when she had a pierced foot. And further more, peace of mind is worth it. Have them both on it.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> The HD clause is only applicable if they are under 6 prior to joining Healthy Paws. If join after 6, then the dog will not be covered for HS.
> 
> If you joined when the dog was 4 and the dog is diagnosed with HD when he's 7, it is covered.
> 
> Also important to note, most insurance companies will not cover an ACL surgery for the 2nd knee.They consider it a pre-existing condition. HP covers both knees.


I did some research on some ailments that are possible. I know for sure that one other company will in fact cover a second ACL injury(because it's considered bilateral) as long as the first injury occurred when the pet was already insured. Neither company will cover a second surgery if the first ACL tear was previous to coverage(it's then considered pre-existing). If I remember correctly Healthy Paws has an annual deductible and the other company that I researched heavily had a lifetime deductible. The price was about the same a month. Both had no caps on what they would cover. The lifetime deductible was the more cost effective of the two IMO. If a dog has cancer and fights it for a while then it comes back a few years later the one insurance would require no deductible after it was met the first time, whereas Healthy Paws would require the deductible to be met again. Another thing I noticed is that the one insurance has customer service available 24/7 and Healthy Paws doesn't. I do think both can be a good insurance to have, if would just be a matter of that life time versus annual deductible. If we are talking about a dog with multiple things going on the annual might be better if it can be controlled after a year.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

karma_ said:


> I've had Healthy Paws since 2011 and have no complaints -- then again, I've also barely used it. It started off at just shy of $40/month with $500 deductible and 90% payout, now it's at $49 for my 10yo GSD. Luckily, I haven't actually had to use it past my deductible.
> 
> As with any other type of insurance, it's more of a peace of mind thing. I don't care about paying $600/year if it means 90% of the rather high vet bill is reimbursed. Healthy Paws seemed to have a high reputation and low complaints, so I chose them and haven't had any issues so far. The amount of people I've seen praise them since singing up for continuing to cover cancer claims and other expensive treatments is just icing on the cake.


 
$600/year isn't so bad for piece of mind if you have one dog. Or two dogs. 

If you have, say, 10 dogs, it becomes $6000 a year. And dogs have to reach the deductible individually. Most dogs don't hit it. So if on average the dogs hit half their deductible, you are paying out $8500 instead of $2500, and, then you have to send the bills, make copies, provide envelopes, stamps, etc. At the end of the year, if you have a dog that had a tooth out, so made her deductible and after that a visit for $130, that would be paid at 90% whoopee!!! You get $127 dollars back after paying in $6k. 

If you are financially secure, put the money in a bank account, and then if in the course of her life, she never needed a catastrophic claim, then you have that money waiting there for the next dog, and if you continue to contribute, for the next, and the next.

I have had a lot of dogs. Some needed a surgery for this or that. A spay, a toenail taken care of, a tooth out, an ear fixed, a C-section. None of them needed anything over $1500. 

Having a CC for your dog's health care, that you pay up each month is another way to go. If you do have to put a bigger bill on it, you make payments and pay interest. 

Maybe it makes sense if you have just the one dog.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> $600/year isn't so bad for piece of mind if you have one dog. Or two dogs.
> 
> If you have, say, 10 dogs, it becomes $6000 a year. And dogs have to reach the deductible individually. Most dogs don't hit it. So if on average the dogs hit half their deductible, you are paying out $8500 instead of $2500, and, then you have to send the bills, make copies, provide envelopes, stamps, etc. At the end of the year, if you have a dog that had a tooth out, so made her deductible and after that a visit for $130, that would be paid at 90% whoopee!!! You get $127 dollars back after paying in $6k.
> 
> ...


I'm slowly adding mine, but I completely understand what your saying with multiple dogs. Right now Robyn has it and my dad had it on Batman(since Batman was his I'm requesting that he keeps the policy--I think that is fair). Tannor will be next to get it. I'm observing the dogs and their general health. I probably won't get it on the 11 yr old. I also have a credit card, well two that are dedicated to the dogs, that is $12,000 and I'm busting my butt to clear that, so that is open for any of the dogs that aren't covered. I prefer to have peace of mind in case there are any emergencies. I learned how fast that could happen with Brennan and I also learned how much one major ailment can cost. I wish they offered a family plan for the dogs, that would be a dream come true


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

Just did a quick online quote from TruPanion (one of the better options in Canada). For a three year old female GSD, the immediate quote is $114/month with a $200 deductible. Or $68/month with a $700 deductible. Better off continuing to pay out of pocket.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

yuriy said:


> Just did a quick online quote from TruPanion (one of the better options in Canada). For a three year old female GSD, the immediate quote is $114/month with a $200 deductible. Or $68/month with a $700 deductible. Better off continuing to pay out of pocket.


I pay $70 a month with a $250 deductible through Trupanion.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

yuriy said:


> Just did a quick online quote from TruPanion (one of the better options in Canada). For a three year old female GSD, the immediate quote is $114/month with a $200 deductible. Or $68/month with a $700 deductible. Better off continuing to pay out of pocket.


For Bash, I pay $75/month with no deductible with Trupanion. I'd have to rethink insurance if my rate was as high as yours.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

My vet advised me to put a German Shepherd on insurance for at least its first year.


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## yuriy (Dec 23, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> My vet advised me to put a German Shepherd on insurance for at least its first year.


My breeder told me the same thing when I was picking up the pup. That's a piece of advice I should have followed. Out first year was crazy.


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## Benny and Me (Dec 21, 2015)

I have 2 of my dogs insured with Trupanion. I wish that I had insured the third when she was a puppy. Live and learn. It took awhile to go through the various companies policies to see who would cover an intact dog who would be competing in agility. Healthy Paws wouldn't cover a competition dog but Trupanion will cover them if you purchase a rider.


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

I researched pet insurance for weeks and weeks and now have Healthy Paws Pet Insurance. I've been very happy with them. They do what they say they are going to do and are prompt with reimbursements. They even paid for swim therapy for one of my dogs but it has to be veterinarian prescribed. GSDs are prone to many things that can run into the thousands of dollars to take care of.

The one thing they do not provide is a wellness plan but it is how they keep their costs low and can provide good coverage at the same time. Besides the wellness plans offered by most insurance companies can sometimes cost more than your annual checkup and whatever vaccinations you get.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I just got my total for 2015. It is exactly $100 more than 2014. $4985 as opposed to $4885. I went to the other place 1 in both years, one for a C-section and the other for a spay. Both were unlikely to be covered by insurance and both cost $1500. 

Even at $50/mo/dog I would have just spent 10k on health insurance and would have gotten nothing in return for it. It would have been flushed. If I had that kind of money, it would make more sense to put it in the bank and let it grow. 

I just signed up for insurance for me. My choices were $560/mo with a $500 deductible, max out of pocket $5000 in network; $520/mo with a $1000 deductible, max out of pocket $5000 in network; $182/mo; deductible=max out of pocket=$5000 in network with an HSA. So, I picked the last choice and am putting $300/mo in the HSA. That way, I can use that money toward my deductible which I hope I never reach, and I can carry it over from year to year. By two years, hopefully, I have enough money in there to cover a catastrophic illness. But I am not flushing that $300 each month, like I would be with the first two types of insurance.


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## Nynole1 (Dec 21, 2013)

I have healthy paws and pay $38/month for it. If I had it sooner, would have saved myself about $700 on an emergency visit. The way I see it, my dog works and plays hard, so the odds are he will need medical attention in the future. While I have the money, it's piece of mind for me. There is now no decision to be made when it comes to treatment, he will get only the best.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I'm confused about insurance. I read everything I could find by KR16. No plan is perfect. I checked ratings on Yelp and found a lot of bad reviews on every plan I could locate, along with good ones that sounded more like fakes from the company itself than random reviews. Our vet suggested we get it just for the puppy, so I asked the breeder who also said yes, at least for one year. AKC offers a plan. Healthy Paws has a lot of hidden exclusions. And on Yelp, they posted confidential, personal information about people who gave them bad ratings. That alone is enough to avoid them. Trupanion, which our vet uses on several dogs personally, charges a deduction for each incident. That means it's only going to pay out for expensive bills. So far, nothing we've seen the vet for would be covered. My older dog once had a benign tumor removed, so that means any future growths would be pre-existing conditions and not ever covered. I don't know what to do. While I'm waiting, I don't want to ask the vet anything that might end up in the records and be excluded. We already had one minor skin irritation which turned out to be nothing. Does that mean any future skin ailments are excluded?


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## Lykaios (Nov 18, 2015)

Nynole1 said:


> I have healthy paws and pay $38/month for it. If I had it sooner, would have saved myself about $700 on an emergency visit. The way I see it, my dog works and plays hard, so the odds are he will need medical attention in the future. While I have the money, it's piece of mind for me. There is now no decision to be made when it comes to treatment, he will get only the best.


Same here! I would've saved around that much this year if I'd had insurance. My GSD's nose is an intensely powerful foxtail magnet... especially on Saturday nights, despite how careful and paranoid I try to be. And that alone will probably make my insurance worth it. Along with him being a clumsy doofus  who knows what kind of trouble he'll find. I feel SO much better knowing he's on insurance and I won't have to worry about major vet bills.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Nynole1 said:


> I have healthy paws and pay $38/month for it. If I had it sooner, would have saved myself about $700 on an emergency visit. The way I see it, my dog works and plays hard, so the odds are he will need medical attention in the future. While I have the money, it's piece of mind for me. There is now no decision to be made when it comes to treatment, he will get only the best.


Yep, same with Deja. She is way too intense not to get insurance. For my calm Collie pup, maybe not in the future but at least until he is fully mature he will be on PI as well. I am happy with HP.


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm confused about insurance. I read everything I could find by KR16. No plan is perfect. I checked ratings on Yelp and found a lot of bad reviews on every plan I could locate, along with good ones that sounded more like fakes from the company itself than random reviews. Our vet suggested we get it just for the puppy, so I asked the breeder who also said yes, at least for one year. AKC offers a plan. Healthy Paws has a lot of hidden exclusions. And on Yelp, they posted confidential, personal information about people who gave them bad ratings. That alone is enough to avoid them. Trupanion, which our vet uses on several dogs personally, charges a deduction for each incident. That means it's only going to pay out for expensive bills. So far, nothing we've seen the vet for would be covered. My older dog once had a benign tumor removed, so that means any future growths would be pre-existing conditions and not ever covered. I don't know what to do. While I'm waiting, I don't want to ask the vet anything that might end up in the records and be excluded. We already had one minor skin irritation which turned out to be nothing. Does that mean any future skin ailments are excluded?


I don't think they would hold skin irritation against you in the future. It occurred, cleared up and its done. Its not like HD, cancer, kidney disease, etc. that doesn't really go away. 

What are the hidden exclusions for healthy paws? I have a few friends that use it and I thought I would use it for the next dog. 

I would have had to spend over $5k in just two months if I didn't have pet plan. They paid up without questions. I highly recommend them.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Healthy Paws covers hip dysplasia but according to a complaint, they use any prior vet visit or assumption of prior condition to deny claims. Someone's cat had a blood test which showed that there was a hereditary condition which the cat hadn't developed and they used a blood test to deny all kinds of related claims. I would have to go back through the posts to read them all. This will explain better than I can.

Healthy Paws Pet Insurance & Foundation - 29 Photos - Pets - Bellevue, WA - Reviews - Yelp

Petplan Pet Insurance North America - 29 Photos - Pet Services - Newtown Square, PA - Reviews - Yelp

Trupanion - 15 Photos - Insurance - Ballard - Seattle, WA - Reviews - Yelp

Top 138 Reviews and Complaints about AKC Pet Insurance

Top 135 Complaints and Reviews about Nationwide Pet Insurance (Formerly Veterinary Pet Insurance)


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## Lykaios (Nov 18, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm confused about insurance. I read everything I could find by KR16. No plan is perfect. I checked ratings on Yelp and found a lot of bad reviews on every plan I could locate, along with good ones that sounded more like fakes from the company itself than random reviews. Our vet suggested we get it just for the puppy, so I asked the breeder who also said yes, at least for one year. AKC offers a plan. Healthy Paws has a lot of hidden exclusions. And on Yelp, they posted confidential, personal information about people who gave them bad ratings. That alone is enough to avoid them. Trupanion, which our vet uses on several dogs personally, charges a deduction for each incident. That means it's only going to pay out for expensive bills. So far, nothing we've seen the vet for would be covered. My older dog once had a benign tumor removed, so that means any future growths would be pre-existing conditions and not ever covered. I don't know what to do. While I'm waiting, I don't want to ask the vet anything that might end up in the records and be excluded. We already had one minor skin irritation which turned out to be nothing. Does that mean any future skin ailments are excluded?


Whenever I read through the Heathy Paws negative reviews, I was pretty comfortable with most if not all of them I read through their policy and exclusions and most or all of the negative reviews were dealing with things that were quite obviously stated in the policy requirements and exclusions. 

The vast majority of them are having to do with pre-existing conditions. If your vet records show a sign of a pre-existing condition related to the current problem. You probably won't be covered, unless you then got an x-ray that concluded the limp wasn't related to dysplasia. If your dog shows signs of hip dysplasia before you sign up or before the clearly stated waiting period is up - don't expect hip dysplasia to be covered later on. If your dog has a hear murmur show up as a puppy and later has a related heart problem, don't expect it to be covered. That is made pretty clear in their terms. 

If my dog had been in for allergies before or a limp or joint pain of any kind, ear infections, etc. I wouldn't expect anything related to be covered after reading their policy. It would still be good for injuries or unrelated problems though. 

But you definitely get the most value if you sign your dog up while he or she is young and has problem free medical records, and make sure you do get a full health exam in the proper amount of time before signing up. For my dog they said he just needed an exam within the last year and that the physical exam he received at the vet this summer before being sedated for foxtail removal counted for that.


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## Kerrycanton (Jun 24, 2007)

I have had Pet First since Allie was a year old. She is 8 now. I have used it a number of times at the emergency vet. I'm going to keep it cause she is a senior now. Just to be on the safe side.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> I'm confused about insurance. I read everything I could find by KR16. No plan is perfect. I checked ratings on Yelp and found a lot of bad reviews on every plan I could locate, along with good ones that sounded more like fakes from the company itself than random reviews. Our vet suggested we get it just for the puppy, so I asked the breeder who also said yes, at least for one year. AKC offers a plan. Healthy Paws has a lot of hidden exclusions. And on Yelp, they posted confidential, personal information about people who gave them bad ratings. That alone is enough to avoid them. Trupanion, which our vet uses on several dogs personally, charges a deduction for each incident. That means it's only going to pay out for expensive bills. So far, nothing we've seen the vet for would be covered. My older dog once had a benign tumor removed, so that means any future growths would be pre-existing conditions and not ever covered. I don't know what to do. While I'm waiting, I don't want to ask the vet anything that might end up in the records and be excluded. We already had one minor skin irritation which turned out to be nothing. Does that mean any future skin ailments are excluded?


Trupanion has a lifetime deductible, so if it's something that is reoccurring you pay the deductible once.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Trupanion has a lifetime deductible, so if it's something that is reoccurring you pay the deductible once.


But if your dog has several different ailments in one year, you pay a deductible on all of them. That alone made me eliminate Trupanion. I have no idea what we are going to do and I want to purchase something quickly. I've been researching for two months and still can't decide, where I decided on my puppy after spending five minutes with him.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> But if your dog has several different ailments in one year, you pay a deductible on all of them. That alone made me eliminate Trupanion. I have no idea what we are going to do and I want to purchase something quickly. I've been researching for two months and still can't decide, where I decided on my puppy after spending five minutes with him.


Well, how many different things that can cost thousands are you thinking? My main concern is Dysplasia and cancer. Even if allergies are thrown in there, it would be covered for life with only one deductible. Even with minor stuff that turns into $1000 vet bill becomes $300-$400, which still saves money.

Take allergies for example...you have a dog that needs to be treated for life, let's say 10 yrs. You either pay $250 for 10 yrs or $2500(250 per yr for 10 yrs to meet annual deductible).


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> But if your dog has several different ailments in one year, you pay a deductible on all of them. That alone made me eliminate Trupanion. I have no idea what we are going to do and I want to purchase something quickly. I've been researching for two months and still can't decide, where I decided on my puppy after spending five minutes with him.


You can choose to have no deductible with Trupanion, if you are concerned about per incident deductibles.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

LuvShepherds said:


> But if your dog has several different ailments in one year, you pay a deductible on all of them. That alone made me eliminate Trupanion. I have no idea what we are going to do and I want to purchase something quickly. I've been researching for two months and still can't decide, where I decided on my puppy after spending five minutes with him.


I just don't understand why paying a deductible would be a deal breaker? 

I don't know the details with Trupanion but I have Petplan and I am so glad I do. Paying the deductibles each year is nothing compared to what they pay for Nikki's care each year.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

With a flat deductible you can budget your expenses for the year. With a per incident, it can add up to a lot.


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## CaliGSD3 (Apr 23, 2015)

Heidigsd said:


> I just don't understand why paying a deductible would be a deal breaker?
> 
> I don't know the details with Trupanion but I have Petplan and I am so glad I do. Paying the deductibles each year is nothing compared to what they pay for Nikki's care each year.


If there are multiple options you're choosing between and having trouble deciding, I think the deductible could reasonably be a deal breaker. 

This past year my dog had 3 vet trips, each being around $700 for unrelated issues. So a $250 yearly deductible rather than a $200 per incident deductible would have made a difference for sure. Unfortunately I had no insurance so I had to pay it all.

But for me, I place most importance on coverage of the big things and how much I can hopefully depend on them to follow through.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Well, how many different things that can cost thousands are you thinking? My main concern is Dysplasia and cancer. Even if allergies are thrown in there, it would be covered for life with only one deductible. Even with minor stuff that turns into $1000 vet bill becomes $300-$400, which still saves money.
> 
> Take allergies for example...you have a dog that needs to be treated for life, let's say 10 yrs. You either pay $250 for 10 yrs or $2500(250 per yr for 10 yrs to meet annual deductible).


You make a good point, I was thinking in terms of all different ailments, which is what our recent male rescue had. When we got him, he had allergies to everything, but ended up with different displays, like ear infections, foot infections, real end infections, etc. That would have been pre existing and never covered. If it was, each one was different. It was one one huge expense that led to every other ailment he had for years until he died.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

LuvShepherds said:


> With a flat deductible you can budget your expenses for the year. With a per incident, it can add up to a lot.


So go with the no deductible. I don't think that this stuff can be budgeted, you just never know what is going to happen and if it will be covered or denied.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

llombardo said:


> So go with the no deductible. I don't think that this stuff can be budgeted, you just never know what is going to happen and if it will be covered or denied.


I know. It's trying to guess what the future will be and we can't.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How much does it cost with no deductible?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> How much does it cost with no deductible?


I was quoted right at $100 a month for no deductible.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

selzer said:


> How much does it cost with no deductible?


For my 14 month old intact male GSD, it's $75/month with no deductible. That includes the additional rider that covers chiropractic care, acupuncture, etc. That's with Trupanion.

Edited to add: We did sign him up when he was 9 weeks old, so that could have made a difference in how much we pay.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

I have Trupanion on my youngest dog.. Got it when he was 10 weeks.. I pay 50 and some change a month with a $100 deductible.. And have already used it. Reimbursement came with in a week..

I'll be looking into the price on another dog who is a little older..


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

$75/month would be $900/year/dog, when I average about $250/year/dog in veterinary expenses, over time with many dogs. 

Even with 1 dog, after 10 or 12 years, that covers a bloat surgery, or a hip surgery at $100% maybe both. 

The reason these people are selling you this insurance is because they are making money on it. 

Some people win the jack pot when their dog needs major surgery/replacement. But if you add up all they paid in over the years to get that surgery, the insurance company isn't the loser. 

It's a racket. And if you have 3-4 dogs you are much better putting that $225-$300 dollars/month into a bank account and watch it grow.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> $75/month would be $900/year/dog, when I average about $250/year/dog in veterinary expenses, over time with many dogs.
> 
> Even with 1 dog, after 10 or 12 years, that covers a bloat surgery, or a hip surgery at $100% maybe both.
> 
> ...


Of course it's a gamble. They make money on car and home insurance too. Hopefully it never is needed but it's there just in case.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> Of course it's a gamble. They make money on car and home insurance too. Hopefully it never is needed but it's there just in case.


 It is just as there if they put it in the bank. And if dog A never needed it, it is sitting there when they get dog B. Sending it to a 3rd party means, oops didn't have the money to pay for insurance this money -- all that history is gone. Picking it up in a month or two, dogs are older, costs more. Put your money in the bank, from puppy on up. When the dog is six and needs something it is sitting there.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

llombardo said:


> Of course it's a gamble. They make money on car and home insurance too. Hopefully it never is needed but it's there just in case.


I agree. I hope I never have a huge health problem to deal with for Bash like I did with Roxy, but I'm not willing to risk it. That's just what works for my family, though. No judgement on anyone who chooses not to use health insurance.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> Of course it's a gamble. They make money on car and home insurance too. Hopefully it never is needed but it's there just in case.


Exactly!! And when it's needed we're not depleting our savings accounts!

If some folks feel it's a waste then so be it... :shrug:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> It is just as there if they put it in the bank. And if dog A never needed it, it is sitting there when they get dog B. Sending it to a 3rd party means, oops didn't have the money to pay for insurance this money -- all that history is gone. Picking it up in a month or two, dogs are older, costs more. Put your money in the bank, from puppy on up. When the dog is six and needs something it is sitting there.


I had hardly any vet bills for 3 yrs then boom vet bills in the last 2 yrs went over $20000.00. It's a safety net for me, just in case kinda thing. I've never considered it before but when you get hit with $10000,00 in 6 months, it makes you rethink. I don't count on it for visits that are under $1000, it's those $3-5000 visits that scare me. I really wish they had a family plan.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

selzer said:


> It is just as there if they put it in the bank. And if dog A never needed it, it is sitting there when they get dog B. Sending it to a 3rd party means, oops didn't have the money to pay for insurance this money -- all that history is gone. Picking it up in a month or two, dogs are older, costs more. Put your money in the bank, from puppy on up. When the dog is six and needs something it is sitting there.


How much money to you honestly believe people put up in an emergency account faithfully every month? $50 or $100 maybe. Let's say they put up $100 a month, that would give them $1,200 to spend on an emergency after 12 months. 

With Nikki I had paid two premiums ($68) and by time she was nine weeks old she was already seen for Giardia and a mild case of parvo. By the end of the first year Petplan had paid out around $9,000 and I paid less than $400 in premiums. Saving $100 a month for six years would not have been enough to cover the first year of her vet bills. 

With my first GSD her vet bills added up to about $40,000 over 14 years and I swore I would never own another without getting insurance. I see so many posts where people don't have the money to care for their dog even for what I consider minor issues, what are they going to do for chronic health issues?


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## karma_ (Apr 23, 2012)

ITT selzer refusing to understand how insurance works lol


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

karma_ said:


> ITT selzer refusing to understand how insurance works lol


 What does "ITT" stand for?

A little punctuation goes a long way. 

Believe it or not, I do understand it. I am not being sucked in by it. That's all. It is the law that I carry liability insurance on my cars, so I do. I have a loan on my house, so I insure it. But, I'll be darned if I am going to pay out $20,000 a year in premiums for my dogs to be insured when it costs me less than $5,000 in health care each year. If I save one year's worth of premiums in a bank account, it could sit there growing in interest while paying premiums is just flushing the money down the commode.


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## karma_ (Apr 23, 2012)

selzer said:


> What does "ITT" stand for?
> 
> A little punctuation goes a long way.
> 
> Believe it or not, I do understand it. I am not being sucked in by it. That's all. It is the law that I carry liability insurance on my cars, so I do. I have a loan on my house, so I insure it. But, I'll be darned if I am going to pay out $20,000 a year in premiums for my dogs to be insured when it costs me less than $5,000 in health care each year. If I save one year's worth of premiums in a bank account, it could sit there growing in interest while paying premiums is just flushing the money down the commode.


In this thread. A little google goes a long way as well. 

If you don't want to be "sucked in" by it, that's fine as well. The fact of the matter is "worth" is subjective. Just because it's not worth it in your situation, doesn't mean it's not worth it in someone else's.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

karma_ said:


> In this thread. A little google goes a long way as well.
> 
> If you don't want to be "sucked in" by it, that's fine as well. The fact of the matter is "worth" is subjective. Just because it's not worth it in your situation, doesn't mean it's not worth it in someone else's.


 It is refreshing to see that someone can use proper punctuation and grammar. Thank you. It makes understanding what is trying to be communicated much easier. 

It isn't worth it for me. And my guess is that it isn't worth it for anyone with four dogs or more. It is manageable for those who are financially secure already, and those disciplined enough to put the money away for the premium. If they can do that, and if they will do that, they could also put it into an account. With four dogs, that would be close to 4k in one year. In two years 8k. By that point, cutting your monthly contributions in half, you could still pay for all your dogs' medical issues with your canine HSA and still have enough to cover the more catastrophic issues. If you have a serious expenditure, you could then up your contributions until you have a healthy sum in there again, but never more than what you would pay in premiums. 

My worry on insurance is that the cost of veterinary care will increase as more people buy into the insurance policies until we fear not having insurance for the dogs. I hope that never happens. Veterinary care should not be too expensive to obtain by the masses, because pet ownership is really set into this society at all levels, and only a percentage of the population will ever be in a position to insure their pets.


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## karma_ (Apr 23, 2012)

selzer said:


> It is refreshing to see that someone can use proper punctuation and grammar. Thank you. It makes understanding what is trying to be communicated much easier.
> 
> It isn't worth it for me. And my guess is that it isn't worth it for anyone with four dogs or more. It is manageable for those who are financially secure already, and those disciplined enough to put the money away for the premium. If they can do that, and if they will do that, they could also put it into an account. With four dogs, that would be close to 4k in one year. In two years 8k. By that point, cutting your monthly contributions in half, you could still pay for all your dogs' medical issues with your canine HSA and still have enough to cover the more catastrophic issues. If you have a serious expenditure, you could then up your contributions until you have a healthy sum in there again, but never more than what you would pay in premiums.
> 
> My worry on insurance is that the cost of veterinary care will increase as more people buy into the insurance policies until we fear not having insurance for the dogs. I hope that never happens. Veterinary care should not be too expensive to obtain by the masses, because pet ownership is really set into this society at all levels, and only a percentage of the population will ever be in a position to insure their pets.


Fair and understandable point. It's definitely greatly dependent on the situation. In the situation you described above, it's obviously not worth it. For someone with just 1-2 dog(s)? Most likely going to be worth it -- even just for a few years. Worth also doesn't have to be directly tied to the dollar amount. Peace of mind can be the only variable to make insurance worth it to someone. 

As for insurance being the reason to bump vet care, I hope that doesn't happen either but I also highly doubt it will. 

In the end, to each their own


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It's worth it for one or two dogs. I don't own as many as Seltzer has and never will. My friend had four dogs and is now down to three who are all the same age and elderly. Two are littermates and the third is a rescue. She uses Quicken so she can track all expenses. Going back to their puppy years she said she has spent over $80,000 on her dogs. She would have been better off with insurance. From today on, vet bills like hers will only get higher.

I doubt enough people will insure their pets to turn pet insurance into what health insurance for people has become.


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