# Usca or dvg



## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

With all the drama going on with the USCA right now. What are people anticipating. If USCA doesn't get things figured out. What other organizations are people thinking. DVG? Someone was kind enough to share this diagram to me. But I am not going to lie. I still don't 100% understand things. Hoping in here knowledge may prevail and I can learn something. Facebook seems to bring out the crazies.


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

I'm curious and new. The club I'm interested in briefly touched on the topic while I was there and they mentioned they think USCA will be allowed back into AWDF because of an issue with judge training/qualifications (?) And that USCA was trying to be a breed club when it was originally a sport club (?) Regardless the club is registered with USCA and DVG and they said it doesn't matter which I choose to join under.




The whole conversation confused me since it seems like club politics and I'm not one for politics on top of being new to IPO/IPG. Hoping someone can dumb down the issue and what they think will happen.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Well....good luck finding trials that arent USCA. This thing affects very few USCA members. Only people trying for the FCI team are affected. The USCA will be allowed back in. Maybe not the AWDF but the FCI. because you can't expel 2/3 of the people on the sport in the US.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> Well....good luck finding trials that arent USCA. This thing affects very few USCA members. Only people trying for the FCI team are affected. The USCA will be allowed back in. Maybe not the AWDF but the FCI. because you can't expel 2/3 of the people on the sport in the US.


Idk. I figure it will turn out kind of like the whole jump with the top spin. Be a big deal that turns out to be nothing. But, if not. Won't breeders and those that depend on imports be the ones to need DVG or another organization?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I won’t be switching regardless. DVG, GSDCA, and AWDF don’t have the trials or quality that I’m interested in, and don’t have the numbers or availability to make it possible to begin with.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

> Idk. I figure it will turn out kind of like the whole jump with the top spin. Be a big deal that turns out to be nothing. But, if not. Won't breeders and those that depend on imports be the ones to need DVG or another organization?


Why would it affect breeders? The AWDF exists for one single national event. It has nothing to do with the AKC OR registering dogs. It is not a breed club. It is an invited guest of the FCI, not even a full member.

Who it did seriously affect were all the non USCA members....cuz....good luck finding trials.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My club is USCA and that isn't changing. USCA offers the most trials, 2 championships, regional events, great judges and also conformation events for the GSD people. I agree that I think this will be resolved.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Yeah. So this is the stuff I wanted to know about. The way I understood it. And maybe I am way off. Is that if USCA doesn't get this resolved then any SV couldn't be done under USCA any imports with titles wouldn't be recognized or interchange with USCA titles. I read that it would basically render USCA like Continental kennel club. Sure it's registered just don't mean ****. Again I could very well be wrong. That is why I posted this. Hoping someone could clarify things.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

So what exactly is the issue of everything?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The USCA is NOT an organization for registration. It can not be like the "continental kennel club".


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> The USCA is NOT an organization for registration. It can not be like the "continental kennel club".


 I know it's not an organization for registration. I was referring to the titles not being honored or accepted by the other organizations. Therefore being equivalent to a CKC registered dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

The AWDF is ONLY there for a single championship. That is their entire purpose. They are not accepting USCA titles. Ok. SO that means everyone needs to find other trials in order to earn titles to enter the AWDF championship IF they want to try for the FCI championship. ONE SINGLE EVENT. Good luck finding trials that are not USCA. People with breeds that are not German Shepherds should be IRATE at the AWDF.

There were power plays on both sides.

If nothing else, play the numbers game...

People are mad over the $100 charge to enter a USCA event if they are non members? I pay that fee every year. That fee helps pay for programs for helpers, track layers, judge and a youth program. It gets me 2 Nationals and a regionals per year. So it costs me $100 + the entry fee for trial. Should non members pay less? If they chose to be a member of a different organization, it's their choice. They shouldn't pay less than a member. So now they can pay more in travel fees and hotel fees to find trials that aren't USCA.

There is a club that was never paid by the AWdf for holding the national. Per the secretary at the time, the entries were 30-40. The event was in the red. Go to the awdf website, look at the USCA members entered in the championship. Subtract those numbers from the total entries. Compare those numbers to the 30-40 entries in the event that was in the red.

We'll see how this all plays out.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> The AWDF is ONLY there for a single championship. That is their entire purpose. They are not accepting USCA titles. Ok. SO that means everyone needs to find other trials in order to earn titles to enter the AWDF championship IF they want to try for the FCI championship. ONE SINGLE EVENT. Good luck finding trials that are not USCA. People with breeds that are not German Shepherds should be IRATE at the AWDF.
> 
> There were power plays on both sides.
> 
> ...



Thanks @Jax08. This post explains some of what I was wondering.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

I think I'll stick to suit sports. Lol


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

cloudpump said:


> I think I'll stick to suit sports. Lol


 I believe the closest suit sport to me is Chicago.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Is this a good summary of what's happening?

Meltdown in America


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Katsugsd said:


> I'm curious and new. The club I'm interested in briefly touched on the topic while I was there and they mentioned they think USCA will be allowed back into AWDF because of an issue with judge training/qualifications (?) And that USCA was trying to be a breed club when it was originally a sport club (?) Regardless the club is registered with USCA and DVG and they said it doesn't matter which I choose to join under.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this is sort of backwards.....USCA was originally established to promote/follow the SV standard of breeding for the German Shepherd Dog.....through the years, the whole concept of training and titles is to ascertain the breedworthiness of the individual has been shunted aside and the training is now a competitive sport....if a title can be made on a dog, no matter how skewed or twisted or mickey moused the test, people think it equals breedworthiness....

Politics has always been a cloud over the sport and the organization. ALWAYS. That being said, USCA still has the most clubs, the most trials and is generally recognized as the organization with the most opportunity.

Lee


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

wolfstraum said:


> this is sort of backwards.....USCA was originally established to promote/follow the SV standard of breeding for the German Shepherd Dog.....through the years, the whole concept of training and titles is to ascertain the breedworthiness of the individual has been shunted aside and the training is now a competitive sport....if a title can be made on a dog, no matter how skewed or twisted or mickey moused the test, people think it equals breedworthiness....
> 
> Politics has always been a cloud over the sport and the organization. ALWAYS. That being said, USCA still has the most clubs, the most trials and is generally recognized as the organization with the most opportunity.
> 
> Lee



Thank you for the explanation! I'm sure I just misunderstood the entire conversation since I'm so new to IPO and this new wave of club politics.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> this is sort of backwards.....USCA was originally established to promote/follow the SV standard of breeding for the German Shepherd Dog.....through the years, the whole concept of training and titles is to ascertain the breedworthiness of the individual has been shunted aside and the training is now a competitive sport....if a title can be made on a dog, no matter how skewed or twisted or mickey moused the test, people think it equals breedworthiness....
> 
> Politics has always been a cloud over the sport and the organization. ALWAYS. That being said, USCA still has the most clubs, the most trials and is generally recognized as the organization with the most opportunity.
> 
> Lee


I know this is off topic from the thread, but this is a good article about the value of titles and touches on why they aren't everything. I have an honest question related to all the IPO is a joke comments. Not just this one Lee, but just in general, because there's always someone who's going to say it. 
German Shepherd Watch Dogs Do Titles Really Matter? - German Shepherd Watch Dogs

Why bother then? Why the effort and why advertise the titles? Why put the work into an IPO1 on a 6 year old dog that was already bred, what, 3 times? What the heck does IPO1 pending mean? If its because you know the dog, your dogs, etc.. what difference is that IPO1?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Steve Strom said:


> I know this is off topic from the thread, but this is a good article about the value of titles and touches on why they aren't everything. I have an honest question related to all the IPO is a joke comments. Not just this one Lee, but just in general, because there's always someone who's going to say it.
> German Shepherd Watch Dogs Do Titles Really Matter? - German Shepherd Watch Dogs
> 
> Why bother then? Why the effort and why advertise the titles? Why put the work into an IPO1 on a 6 year old dog that was already bred, what, 3 times? What the heck does IPO1 pending mean? If its because you know the dog, your dogs, etc.. what difference is that IPO1?


I am a bit confused - I scanned the linked article, but it is late and I am not really sharp right now...  half asleep

Are you referring in general to a generic dog or to a specific dog?? to my male??? IPO1 pending merely indicates that the dog is being trained, and will be trialed for the title....generically.....

If you are referring to my dog??? Hey - life happens....the dog had tons of training, got hurt, handler had family and work commitments and titles did not happen even though dog was trained.....time goes by, females need to be bred while still young enough to have pups and the male get bred and titled and koered afterwards....even in Germany they can do this....yes, bass ackwards, but done.....since in Germany they have more clubs/shows opportunities to train and title in a physical area less than the size of Texas than we have in the entire US, it is not always feasible to get that title before breeding a dog (health and viability play into the decision as well)...doing titles koer, certifications after doing a breeding is still a demonstration of honoring the system and demonstrating that the dog is breeding quality as evaluated by an outsider. 

My HGH female was koered after her breeding career just to establish that credential for her offspring. My male was picked up and trialed 3 weeks after I got him back with barely any brush up training....then koered ..... 

BUT - there ARE tons of dogs with IPO titles that aren't worth Charmin! there is abuse in every evaluation system....no different in IPO.....


If this is incoherent - sorry - am trying to stay awake....

Lee


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Derail this thread as much as you wish. Interesting conversation.
Regarding the original post. Now that USCA has a new president, hopefully they can work things out and all will be good.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@cdwoodcox I'm confused as to why you keep saying the USCA needs to get things figured out and why you imply Jim stepping down is a solution. Vadim voted on that non member charge that involved the awdc clause as well. This didn't happen in a vacuum. There is another organization involved In this and they aren't innocent victims. Maybe I'm miisreading this but it appears you are placing all the responsibility on the USCA?


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> I am a bit confused - I scanned the linked article, but it is late and I am not really sharp right now...  half asleep
> 
> Are you referring in general to a generic dog or to a specific dog?? to my male??? IPO1 pending merely indicates that the dog is being trained, and will be trialed for the title....generically.....
> 
> ...


Doc's USCA IPO3 National Champion title is pending too, Lol. Yeah, I veered into Komet but I'm not questioning the dog or the reasons why he wasn't originally. I just don't understand pointing to mickey mouse titles not meaning they're breed worthy, then putting in the effort to put that first title on an older dog who's already produced a fair amount of puppies?


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Just seen this.


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