# why do people...



## Gsdlover13 (Jan 9, 2013)

say so many bad things about BYB's..i understand theres alot of horrible BYB's..
but there is still a low amount of people who have healthy dogs and just happened to breed them..
an puppies come out just as healthy and energetic!

when i was 13 i always wanted a gsd an the only thing my parents were able to afford for me was a BYB puppy..needless to say that puppy was the best dog ever she was smart and extremely healthy!

so dont feel discouraged if all you can afford is a BYB puppy
just make sure you observe the home of the puppies and what kind
of people are trying to sell it to you...

i just had to get that off of my chest like breast reduction....


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Glad you got it off your chest.
But if you really want opinions, there are lots in this thread:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/248530-whats-wrong-byb.html


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

lol in all technicality, Shasta is a BYB pup. She's healthy as a horse. I met both parents, her parents owners had fallen on tough times. They didn't intentionally breed the dogs (long story, just say I saw the couch and wall the male chewed through to get to the female) and they took the litter to get first shots and dewormed. All the dogs were really well taken care of. I don't think I'd go to another BYB but you never know. My next pup will be from a reputable breeder.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

It's been discussed many times, here's a good recent thread regarding BYB's and puppy mills

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/248530-whats-wrong-byb.html

Edit: Oops Sunflowers, didn't see your post first! Really good thread though


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am sure mine is from a byb and she is everything she is suppose to be...she is perfect When we were growing up most of our dogs were strays we found. One came from a farm, he was a St. Bernard/Gsd, his father was really mean(GSD) but our pup turned out well. He lived almost 16 years. We were not a family that ever owned pure breds.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

You know, most breeds got started as "back yard bred". Old Farmer Brown down the road has a stock dog that works sheep like magic. Every farmer wants a puppy from his dog. Brown goes to the next town and breeds his dog to Farmer Green's dog who is a good stock dog too. Most of the pups are superior stock dogs and so begins a breed or at least a line of working dogs. Old man Hill has a hound that can track anything so every hunter in the area wants a pup from his dog. The south is full of little pockets of dogs all bred along those lines for generations each with a particular color or look. 

It's not the breeder; it's the dogs he is breeding. Do they have real value to people? Do they have a special look or talent? Even if the value is just that they are the sweetest, quietest, best pets. I don't think anybody objects to dogs bred for looks, or talent or temperament. But we all should object to dogs bred in spite of congenital health problems or dogs kept in terrible living conditions just to make somebody a few bucks. All puppy mills and many back yard breeders don’t care about the health of their pups and don’t have breeding stock that is in any way above the ordinary. That is why people dislike and distrust them.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Because you shouldn't support luck and laziness, they aren't a good long term solution. If a backyard breeder has good stock, then they should prove it by putting titles on them or getting them health tested, and they should have a plan for how their dogs offspring will improve the breed. 

My dog is from a BYB. He has awesome nerves, great drives, and hasn't had any health problems so far. I still wouldn't go back to that breeder because she was breeding for size and color. My dog being as good as he is is pure luck, and eventually if she keeps breeding that way she's going to produce some nasty dogs. It's not an ideal situation long term and I don't want to support that.


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## Gunner&Bella (Apr 17, 2013)

My GSD is from a BYB.... I work as an LEO, and went to his breeder's house for a call. He was the last puppy left, and was only 6wks old. Of course, I couldn't do much at the time, other than advise law. I went back two weeks later to make sure they listened to me and he was still there. I bought him right there and took him home (I can't say the exact circumstances, but he did not need to be left there any longer than necessary). Granted, both of his parents were on premises, the father a black and tan and the mother a sable, both had good temperaments and size. I fell in love with the pup because the first day I went there he came bounding across the yard and gave me a wonderful welcome then sat next to me. He knew he was mine from day 1.

The issues I have faced with this:

Gunner never got any of his first shots or deworming. Of course the day I got him he went straight to the vet to have that done. Throughout the year I have kept his shots and dewormings up to date, but because of the delay, it has been an issue with getting the worms removed. One of his vets even believed he has a genetic digestive order which doesn't allow him to get the nutrients he needs without meds. Luckily, blood tests proved otherwise. I have finally gotten a clean bill of health from his vets and Gunner is now a year old. 

I got lucky. Gunner has a great temperament - though he takes awhile to warm up to other dogs, once the "dominance" issue is handled he is great. He is quick as a whip and doesn't take long to train for anything. He is also great at tracking. 

Though I got lucky, I highly do not recommend BYB's because of their lack of concern for the dog's health and their want for the money. 

A good breeder, will give you an opportunity to meet the pups (several times if needed), will make sure all of their shots are up to date, won't let a pup go to someone they think will not take care of it, and will typically work something out with the buyer in the case of a genetic disease, disorder, or death. A good breeder does not hide anything related to the pups.

Many shelter dogs are products of BYBs, abused, left behind, or owners die. I know my next GSD will be from a shelter or a rescue. Shelter dogs need lovin' too and the only way to prove that the GSD breed is the best, is to have a coalition of great GSD owners.


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## NormanF (Apr 14, 2013)

My dog has the papers to prove her pedigree.

I could give a rat's rear end if she came from a noble line or not. I still love her all the same!


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

There are some serious-about-the-breed breeders the are so small-scale that they might be considered back yard breeders. They might only generate a litter once or less per year. For me, it is sometimes hard to determine if a breeder is a BYB or just an occasional 'serious' breeder. I got my dog from the latter type and am happy with the care she took to select bloodlines and characteristics.


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## AngelaA6 (Jan 20, 2013)

I got my dog a humane society but it's kind of up in the air about whether or not he's a BYB. He was microchipped but his old owners just didn't want him (he was 4 months old). I looked up every breeder in the surrounding area where he was picked up and all I could find that had blacks were DDR breeders and he definitely isn't that big. And anything that wasn't a DDR was a showline so I'm assuming he's from a BYB. I got super lucky as I'm finding out the more I'm on this thread because he doesn't have any health issues. I'm keen to rescues but there's a breeder that sells her 4-5 year old females that are spayed and retired from breeding and I'm thinking about eventually getting one of hers.


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## gsdlover91 (Jul 21, 2012)

BYB's just stick two dogs together because they are "the most beautiful GSD's theyve ever seen" or think their dogs need to breed once, or whatever excuse. They do not research genetics, they generally do not health test their dogs. Im sorry, but when buying a dog, especially a GSD, I want to KNOW health/temperament wise what I am buying. I knew exactly what I was buying, and I bought from a breeder who backs up what she sells. And she doesnt breed often, the 'frequency' of breedings isnt what makes a BYB a BYB. Its about the health, and why they are breeding their dogs.

And even BYB dogs have 'papers'. Doesn't mean squat. A pedigree just shows you sires, dams, etc. Just because a dog is registered with the AKC and has 'papers' doesn't make that dog worthy of breeding.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I know this issue has been discussed but anyways....There are bad show line breeders and good BYB (whatever that means and whoever puts on that label) and the other way around. I would prefer a pup from two nice mutts than one from two bad tempered but beautiful show dogs. Unfortunately the AKC doesn't screen for temperament. I know many nice mutts who were the result of the neighbor male "visiting" their female and the pups being raised in the family. Literally a back yard breeder is someone with a litter in the back yard. I am sure many show dogs are living in clean and heated kennels located in their back yards. What's in a name....


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Aside from all the health issues, over population ect someone just posted a thread that reads "3 females in nc" unfortunately things like that happen too often. This byb got the puppies and had no use for the poor dogs that produced them so it was easy to just dump them.


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

Well some people luck out with their BYB GSD's but Ive seen the opposite side of the fence... 

Diesel was from a reputable breeder whos parents were titles in SCH, and were health tested. She had amazing drive, temperament, intelligence and health.

Penny is a BYB special, she has had health issues as well as some temperament issues, she does have decent drive though and is really smart but that does not make up for the other things. 

So I would only suggest getting a GSD from a reputable breeder, my next GSD will be from a reputable breeder again its not worth the consequences and if you buy from a BYB your just rolling the dice and its just not worth the risk.


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## NormanF (Apr 14, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> I know this issue has been discussed but anyways....There are bad show line breeders and good BYB (whatever that means and whoever puts on that label) and the other way around. I would prefer a pup from two nice mutts than one from two bad tempered but beautiful show dogs. Unfortunately the AKC doesn't screen for temperament. I know many nice mutts who were the result of the neighbor male "visiting" their female and the pups being raised in the family. Literally a back yard breeder is someone with a litter in the back yard. I am sure many show dogs are living in clean and heated kennels located in their back yards. What's in a name....


Agreed.... when you adopt a dog, you want to be sure your personalities, drives and lifestyle are compatible or its going to be a disaster. You generally can tell after meeting a dog whether its the right match or not. But if the dog likes you, chances are the adoption is going to work out just fine.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The truth is the majority of BYB dogs do NOT have any issues...the majority of dogs with issues are BYB dogs.

I bought a BYB puppy. He's perfectly healthy, beautiful temperament, and wonderful structure. Just got his hips/elbows OFA'd and they came out good/normal. So no HD in his future. But we know we got lucky, as his pedigree doesn't give you much information on what could've been.

Most people get lucky and have perfectly fine animals. They are pets, they don't expect much from them. For those that do sports, or want to make sure their 10 year investment/hobby works out for Schutzhund, agility, obedience, ect...they research pedigrees, research dogs, and don't just hope to get lucky with a $500 dog.

In the end...its a 10+ year investment. The increase in price of $500 is just $50 per year for the chance to have a much better companion.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

wolfy dog said:


> I know this issue has been discussed but anyways....There are bad show line breeders and good BYB (whatever that means and whoever puts on that label) and the other way around. I would prefer a pup from two nice mutts than one from two bad tempered but beautiful show dogs. Unfortunately the AKC doesn't screen for temperament. I know many nice mutts who were the result of the neighbor male "visiting" their female and the pups being raised in the family. Literally a back yard breeder is someone with a litter in the back yard. I am sure many show dogs are living in clean and heated kennels located in their back yards. What's in a name....


IMO, a bad show line breeder is the same as a BYB because they are breeding for the wrong reasons. If you have one BYB that breeds for money and one bad show line breeder that breeds for only conformation with total disregard to temperament and health, it's the same because they are both the wrong reasons to breed.

A BYB is not someone who breeds in their backyard(some have apartments lol), it's someone who breeds dogs that shouldn't be bred or breeds for the wrong reasons, usually because they think puppies or cute or they want money. My BIL's wife and her mom are backyard breeders. They have I think around 8 Boxers in kennels. They have no idea about health testing, don't know what titles are, and have no clue what sort of lines their dogs are from. They just breed because puppies are cute and their dogs came with papers. They produce deaf and blind pups but they don't care. The 'backyard' part in backyard breeder is just a nickname. Whether you use a backyard or not has nothing to do with good or bad breeders.

There's no such thing as a good BYB breeder, because if they were actually good they would fufill the requirements of a good breeder and no longer be considered a BYB breeder. Being less bad than other BYBs doesn't make a BYB good.

And it doesn't really matter what kind of pup one would prefer, what it comes down to is what sort of breeding practices you want to support and see continued AS WELL AS what kind of dogs you want to see have their genes continued, otherwise the future for dogs breeds is bleak. We have to think of the future and what we want the breed to look like 20 years down the line instead of selfishly getting a pup from a backyard breeder that lucked out and happened to be a good dog all because we were feeling cheap or because we were too lazy to do our own homework on responsible breeders and just bought whatever was convenient.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what does observing the home and the people selling the pup
tell you about genetics, testing, titles?



Gsdlover13 said:


> say so many bad things about BYB's..i understand theres alot of horrible BYB's..
> but there is still a low amount of people who have healthy dogs and just happened to breed them..
> an puppies come out just as healthy and energetic!
> 
> ...


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

ok, is it me or is this statement funny?



martemchik said:


> >>>>>The truth is the majority of BYB dogs do NOT have any issues...the majority of dogs with issues are BYB dogs.<<<<<
> 
> I bought a BYB puppy. He's perfectly healthy, beautiful temperament, and wonderful structure. Just got his hips/elbows OFA'd and they came out good/normal. So no HD in his future. But we know we got lucky, as his pedigree doesn't give you much information on what could've been.
> 
> ...


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> ok, is it me or is this statement funny?


Like, funny haha or funny as in suspect? I think statistically it makes sense. If you look at the rate of hip dysplasia for American GSDs, I think the numbers are about 20%. That's still waaaay too high, but it does mean that there are lots of BYB dogs floating around out there who are just fine in that one aspect of health. That may explain why so many ignorant people think it's okay to breed any two adults who don't seem to have health problems. They did it in the past and nothing bad happened, so why stop?

Then you have people like the white shepherd breeder near us who has been accused of falsifying OFA results and lying to clients... I think those people belong in a special category much worse than BYB. It's one thing to be ignorant and quite another to be willfully deceptive. 

In my parents' hometown, in rural Missouri, people breed hunting dogs just because. They are more of a landrace than a breed. I think this is fine. The difference between that and the over abundance of bad GSD breeders is that the latter are fueled by a multinational consumerist pet economy that privileges "purebred" above all else. To them, a breed is just another consumer option like buying a certain brand of soda.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Kaimeju said:


> If you look at the rate of hip dysplasia for American GSDs, I think the numbers are about 20%. *That's still waaaay too high, but it does mean that there are lots of BYB dogs floating around out there who are just fine in that one aspect of health*.


That is assuming that the average pet owner who purchased from a BYB is going to actually get their dog evaluated for dysplasia. And it is assuming that every one of those owners will also have their dog treated for it.

I have run across a lot of GSD owners who think that ALL GSDs will have hip issues ("That is why he is a little gimpy, they ALL have bad hips", "Why spend money to check that limp out? They ALL have bad hips these days"). 

So I wonder how many dogs do have poor joint health, but never become part of the statistics because their owners just don't consider it worth following up with?
Sheilah


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

martemchik said:


> The truth is the majority of BYB dogs do NOT have any issues...the majority of dogs with issues are BYB dogs.


Do you know what the percentage of dogs that come from BYB's are? I'd venture to say at least 60-70%, which is a pretty high number and this would be mixed and pure bred dogs. To say that the majority of them have issues is probably not correct. If you look at the whole picture, the number with issues is probably pretty small for the amount of dogs running around that come from this scenario. It would be interesting to find the numbers, I think that lots of people would be surprised. Just look at petfinder, craigslist, or in the shelter, the majority of those dogs are from BYB's and the majority of them will do well in a home. The ones that wouldn't do well or have problems are euthanized way before any of us will see them.


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