# Pedigree? Can anyone tell me about these dogs?



## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

We just purchased our 4th GSD from breeder Mark Lee in GA. Dam is Gracie Lexis Vom landholz and Sire is Renaissance Von Cross. next line is River Underwood and Struwwelpeter. All of our dogs are AKC but we've never really been concerned with it until now. We are just curious. Our boy is in the forefront. His name is Tristan.

Tammy in GA


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The breeder of the dam, Gracie Lexis vom Landholz, is a member of this board. So I'm sure she can provide lots of information on that dog and her parents and pedigree. Though I doubt Angela will be very happy to know that Gracie was bred so young.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Pedigree? Can anyone tell me about these dogs*

Great, 1 and half years old, no hip checks, no nothing. Then mixing a german working line with what it looks like name wise an american line male??


No I'm NOT happy. What are you curious about other than I'm sure the sire of your pup probably hasn't had his hips OFA'd either?

I don't know who Mark Lee is since that is not who she was sold to. I emailed the woman she was sold to in N. Georgia and will go from there.


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks Chris! I would be very happy to hear from Angela regarding our boy's mom. Also to know if she has any info on the breeder. He runs Mountain Dog Boarding in Blue Ridge, GA

Tammy in GA


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

See my post above regarding my pup Gracie Lexis. I didn't sell her to HIM, have no idea who he is, but have emailed the woman I sold her to and will be calling her tonight.


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

I am so sorry Angela! My intentions were not to cause conflict honestly! I just wanted to find out more about parents. Here is my e-mail address. [email protected]

Tammy in GA


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## doreenf (Nov 7, 2007)

Sounds like a backyard breeder in the making


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

supposedly only breeds gsd's and yorkies, but reno looks like a baby as well:

http://www.mountaindogboarding.com/image...FF%20AND%20STUD

Tammy, no conflict really. I just don't approve of my dogs being used for breeding under 2 yrs old, no hip checks, and when the owner of the dog didn't notify me verbally or written as per the contract that she wanted to sell/rehome the dog. I was supposed to have first option to get the dog back, which I would've taken her back as I have other dogs in the past. Prob. nothing I can do about it now, but as for future litters, there are changes in the makings due to 1 person. I just feel really sad for the way Lexi's life is now going to be. 

I hope she doesn't get bred back to back with 9 pups, but something tells me she will.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

On another note, looks like some long coats with that breeding with all the wavy fur.


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## grmnshpd21 (May 5, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Angela_Wreno looks like a baby as well:


Looks like Reno is only 10 months old








http://www.mountaindogboarding.com/id24.html


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## doreenf (Nov 7, 2007)

This really awful! I feel bad for these poor dogs. Is there any legal resourse re breaking the contract with you re Lexi?


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## chruby (Sep 21, 2005)

that is such a shame.....


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## Superpup (Jun 7, 2007)




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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Would a limited registration have helped this? 

I'm not sure if the dog was sold under that type of contract... or if that would have stopped the person from breeding the dog anyway..

Since the dog was re-sold w/o the breeder's knowledge can she get her back? legally?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There are ways for "breeders" ( a term I use loosely here) to get around limited registration. They can just register the puppies with one of the fake registries. So even limited registration isn't foolproof, though it can certainly help. If nothing else it provides some hurdles the BYB/puppymiller would have to overcome, and without AKC the pups may be less marketable.

Depending on the wording of the contract, the original breeder may be able to get the dog back somehow. Sounds like she had First Right of Refusal, so that part of the contract was broken by the original buyer. Though it could be extremely costly in legal fees to do so. I'm sure Angela's working on getting involved in this and weighing her options.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Your right nothing is foolproof now a days..


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## Prinzsalpha (Jul 6, 2005)

Angela sure hope your biting back!!!!!


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

WOW, Angela just told me about this, she is livid!! I can't say I blame her. Gracie is my Gala's sister, still so young. I can't even picture my Gala being a mom, she is such a puppy herself.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Tammy,

Congrats on your new puppy and I'm sorry what should of been a happy announcement for you got rained on.

On the mom's side you pup has some strong working lines, do you plan on doing any kind of sport?

Again-congrats!


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Man, I just went to that guys web site and seeing Gracie there with all those pups made me want to cry. I feel so bad for her, she is just a baby herself, it made me so angry.








This guy is obviously a back-yard-breeder, no question about it.


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

Wow I had not intended to upset the apple cart. I feel really bad and now look at my pup differently. I also feel very ostracized. Sorry to have caused a ruckus.

Tammy in GA


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Tammy, it is not your fault, please don't feel bad, you have done nothing wrong. I hope you keep us updated with your new pup and congratulations.


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

Wow I had not intended to upset the apple cart. I feel really bad and now look at my pup differently. I also feel very ostracized. Sorry to have caused a ruckus.

Tammy in GA


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Tammy,

I can certainly understand that you could feel that way. Please rest assured that the comments have in no way intended to be a slight to you or your new pup and opinions on the breeder and circumstances of this litter aren't meant to reflect on either of you.

Your pup has a very good genetic background and should make you a fine companion for many years to come.


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## Hellismd (Aug 17, 2007)

Tammy,
as Chris said, your pup has a good genetic background and will be a great source of joy to you! Congratulations on your new baby!

This board is a great source of information and support for GSD owners and I have found the members to be very helpful and supportive.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: curlyqWow I had not intended to upset the apple cart. I feel really bad and now look at my pup differently. I also feel very ostracized. Sorry to have caused a ruckus.
> 
> Tammy in GA


Tammy
In your shoes I would feel exactly the same way. I'm sorry that this has happened on what should be a very happy time for you.

Your boy has very strong working lines on his mom's side. I have not looked up the fathers so me not mentioning it is so way a condemnation of his pedigree.

What people are upset about is that the mom was bred under 2 years old and before hips could be xray'd. There is a possibility that the hips were sent in to the SV, which is a German organization that certifies at a year old. (I do think it is unlikely).

Most of us do not think it is a good idea to breed until the momma is physically and mentally mature. I have yet to have a female that I feel is ready to breed until they are closer to 3. Like me they seem to take a while to grow up.









A lot of breeders try to avoid these type of situations by various methods. Limited registration is one. Puppies of a dog born under limited registration can not be registered with the AKC. Breeders will often lift the limited when certain conditions are met. 

Do not let any of this effect the joy of your new pup. If the momma had had hips certified that would still be no guarantee that your pup would be free of hip problems. I have a white shepherd that I bought in similar circumstances to yours and he is my "heart dog". He is the one that comforts me when I am upset, and sooths my soul.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

Angela Is there anything that can be done since the woman that you sold her to by-passed your contract? Please let me know how it ended by PMing me. I don't want this to happen to us in the future. 

Tammy don't feel bad this is not of your doing. I'm sure you have a very happy pup there with at least a good pedigree on the Dams side and have fun with her and show lots of pictures please


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## mikaK9 (Oct 8, 2007)

> Quote: Prob. nothing I can do about it now


Actually, as long as she signed a contract, you should be able to do something about it. The contract should be upheld in court as long as it was a legal contract. And it should be easy to justify taking Gracie from the breeder (even if he claims he has no idea) based on what he's doing now. I'd definitely consult an attorney who specializes in contract law.

And Tammy, sorry to hear about all of it. But it's actually kind of good that all this got brought up....as it should help out Gracie. If you hadn't brought it up, who knows how long or if it would have ever come to light.

And your pup is adorable


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

Well thanks for all the encouraging words. I have completely fallen in love with my pup. He is such a good little guy. I certainly wish I hadn't been so curious as to lineage as now I feel like I have drummed up a bunch of legal trouble for the breeders involved although I completely understand. I was given AKC Litter Certificate and the paperwork to register Tristan and I will do that soon.

Tammy in GA


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: Pedigree? Can anyone tell me about these dogs*

I agree with the others, Tammy, you did nothing wrong.. Enjoy your new addition as they don't stay small for long!


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Tammy the situation has nothing to do with you and your pup, it is what appears to be a problem between Angela and the original buyer. 

Some of the the concerns are that in breeding a pup so young there is a strong possibility that she will be a puppy machine churning out litter after litter with little or no concern to her health or to the placement of the pups.

So--give us another chance?

As a group we have strong feelings about this breed. We love them, we admire them, and we grieve with them when our fellow humans treats them less then they deserve. 

And already you may of made the future brighter for some of our dogs. I imagine every breeder on this board will scrutinize placements even more in the future. So thank you!

So, what are you plans for the pup? Probably has the genetic make up for pretty much any sport/activity you want to do?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Tammy - the best thing you can do is stay here and be a good owner and give this pup a wonderful home and love him! It is not YOUR fault or the pups fault that someone broke their contract and sold poor Gracie to a BYB .... if anything, Angela is probably glad to know about this, no matter how mad she is that it happened....! I would be livid if one of my pups was resold and bred that young!!!! I am sure that you are welcome here and should not feel badly that you posted! Just love your pup and be assured you will get assistance and answers here from everyone - we all want our pups and our pups progeny to be in good homes.

Welcome!

Lee


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

Thank you for the kind words from everyone. I am going to stay on this forum because I am learning every day. I am also very interested to know the outcome if Angela did talk to the lady that she sold Gracie to. Tristan is amazing, he is so very smart just like our other shepherds. We don't plan on anything but loving our pup just like our others. We run them daily, Take them to the park and to the lake in the summer time. We have 3 acres where they run all the time. Our dogs are family members. They sleep with us at night and are with us all of the time. They also love to play ball and would do this all day if we let them.

Tammy in GA


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes I did talk to her, she GAVE her to the guy. Says there is nothing she can do, yet says she got no compensation. I'm trying to get her to tell him she wants her back, I'll pay for the flight to me. She thinks I should contact the guy myself, I feel she should get her own dog back. So we'll see.


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## CurlyQ (Jan 25, 2008)

Angela could you please e-mail me again? I cleaned out my inbox and out it went. [email protected]

Thanks, Tammy


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Pedigree? Can anyone tell me about these dogs*

Well I couldn't wait, I called the guy spoke for about 30 min. I think we've gotten in straightened out where everyone will be happy.

Tammy emailed you again.


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## Hellismd (Aug 17, 2007)

That's good news Angela - keeps us posted.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Angela, call me!!!!


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

Fingers and paws crossed for a happy ending for Angela and Gracie!!


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