# Fearful "aggression"



## Neo-Viking (May 23, 2013)

I have a problem with my 6 year old bitch.
She's a lovely girl, she'd never hurt anyone and I don't personally think she'd hurt another dog.
But she's scared of other dogs having been attacked when she was a little younger and will show herself up as "the big bad bitch" when she sees one barking and lunging on the lead, or off the lead she'll run full speed to a dog, jump on it and make a nasty growl and then trot back to me like "That'll teach him for being a dog!" by which time I'm already apologising repetitively to the owner for her scaring the crap out of them and their dog.
This has only ever happened twice since she's generally kept on a lead but on those occasions I stupidly let her off thinking "there's no one around for miles!" and there was.


Nothing I do will distract her from other dogs.
I tried squeaky toys, high value treats like cheese, sausage, liver, chicken and beef.
I use happy tones of voice and don't show her any tension, but once she's set eyes on another dog she's insistent she wants to show it not to mess with her.

I never shout at her, I'll growl "leave it" which works for everything else she's not aloud to have, just not dogs and I tell her "yes!" in a happy voice when she's doing things correctly (unfortunately she wont accept treats at all).

I don't know what else I can do 
I need some direction.

My GSD boy is almost perfect! he's indifferent with other dogs which is great! he's more interested in his toys and muddy puddles!
But my girl, not so much! 



I don't know if or not it can have any affect but I live in a house with my mother and she lets the dogs get away with murder!
I've given her books including "its me or the dog" which has been my doggy training bible and have begged her to at least try and correct them when they're out of line, but she won't get involved and as such the dogs know they can walk all over her.
I think the cats rank higher in the pack than her! haha!
When the cats hiss the dogs listen! :laugh:
But there's one person in the house (me) that they'll respond to and another person who just lets them do what ever.
I dunno if that makes any affect on my girly when we're out of the house or not.

Everything else is really good, her walking, recall, sit, wait est is good.... until she sees a dog, and then everything goes out the window!


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## Ozzieleuk (Mar 23, 2014)

Had the same type of GSD that was pounced on by a bigger dog.
It took over 2 years to get him readjusted to interacting to other dogs. 
Maybe the key is introduce your girl to dogs she will always see and smell.

I think in the interim you might get a muzzle for her; that way if she gets to a dog
she can't chew him/her to pieces. Especially if she is solid muscle and over 85lbs.

Not sure what to say about your Mom being a softie, but it can undo a lot of your 
work and training.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

watch and be proactive. Redirect her BEFORE she becomes reactive. The book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt has some great exercises for reactive dogs. 
I would manage her well so there is consistency in the training. Your mom needs to be on board with this big-time.


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## Neo-Viking (May 23, 2013)

Ozzie 
Funny you should say that, I have a friend with a male dog (cross breed, not sure what of) and it worked well when she walked waaay behind them and then slowly slowly slowly closed the gap between us until she'd figured him out and then they were fine to walk next to each other so she's proved that she 'can' get used to other dogs. 

If you think it'd be worth doing that with a walking group or something then it might be worth a try 
I'd thought about it but I was a little worried it'd be like taking a child who's scared of clowns to the circus but maybe I'm over thinking it?
I been worried I might be taking one step forward and two steps back.


Definitely to the muzzle too, she's got a solid rubber basket muzzle at the moment (I should have mentioned that) so she can't bite anyone's dogs. I'm not sure that she would but you can never be too sure. 
Not just that but it protects herself as much as it does another dog, no one can accuse her of biting if she has a muzzle on 


Haha I love my mother to bits, but when it comes to the dogs she's really frustrating.
We had a behaviourist over who left hand outs.... HAND OUTS! she can't tell me she forgot what she said because has hand outs to reference over!



Onyx
I'll definitely order that book! Thank you for the recommendation 
Getting my mother involved with the training might be harder though.
I was actually talking with her about it tonight and her response was pretty much in a nutshell "I don't care".
She doesn't value that they need her co'operation which I find very frustrating.
The behaviourist mentioned the body language though and what to look for which has helped a little.
The problem now is that I can squeak her ball or tell her to watch me and she'll be interested for a while, but as soon as she realizes there's a dog around even if it's on the other side of the road her focus is lost. 
I don't know if maybe she'd figured out "watch me" and showing her the squeaky ball means there's a dog around? now that I think about it?
Perhaps it's worth doing that randomly throughout her walks?
Again I'm not sure if I'm over thinking that? lol
Perhaps I am.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Sounds like you're on the right track!I think the random "watch me" and squeaky ball is a good idea and a walking group is certainly worth a try.My dog is less reactive in a group for some reason but is fearful when he sees one or two people.Who would of thought?


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## Neo-Viking (May 23, 2013)

(sorry for such a late reply)
I think maybe I'll take the advice and try the walking group 
I been scared as I said of throwing her in the deep end and making things worse but actually now I think more into that she might warm to it if I did what I have done with my friend's dog and start off at a distance she feels comfortable so she can figure the dogs out.
Haha, it's so weird! I had never actually ever thought about it like that before until discussing it here and now I'm thinking "why did I never think of it that way before?" haha!
I'll mix up the 'watch me' too.

Also the book came today that was recommended by onyx girl 
So I got a bit of reading to do.

Thank you so much <3 I'll try all the ideas and see if we can make some progress


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I've got one of those "I'll be a jerk before you are a jerk" dogs. Makes walking a bit of a challenge. I gave up on letting her off leash unless it is in a fenced in area where I know there are no other dogs. I use a long line sometimes so she can have some freedom. My girl is fine with people and has been able to meet and accept new dogs if the owner is dog savvy and she is introduced properly. The average dog out on the street is a different story!! But we keep at it and try different things. I have found that MY attitude is very important and also CONSISTENCY. It is easy for me to get sloppy.....sometimes I just want to go for a walk and not have to be on alert for other dogs.... My latest endeavor is a class for reactive dogs which starts next week. Looking forward to it. 

Keep working at it and at the end of the day accept your dog for who she is. Mine will never be a friendly love all dogs type of dog. She is who she is and I can live with that. We will keep trying to reduce her reactivity and maybe one blessed day she won't care about other dogs so much.....

Hang in there....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I am re-reading Suzanne Clothier's book_ Bones would Rain from the Sky_http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=dtb752. I love the way she tries to see the why's and work with the dog and not do things just because.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

My Shadow is the same way. I wish you luck, I have given up. I know that isn't helpful. I wish people understood the impact it can have when an already 'at risk' dog gets jumped by their loose dog. Some dogs bounce back just fine but what to do with the ones that don't? This is the number one reason I am so angry about people disobeying leash laws.
Rant over.

Get your mom on your side. Try explaining that should a tragedy ever occur that would require the dog be rehomed, she has a much better chance if she's well behaved and problem free. With so many to choose from, the dogs with issues are at the bottom of the list. Many overwhelmed shelters will euth dogs at the first sign of a ANY problem. You might also bring up that a balanced dog is a happy dog. Ask why she spoils the dog. Is it because she fears the dog will not like her? Or is she afraid? 
Other then that, keep at it. We tried a group walk and it was a disaster, but I hear it works for some. Try to find a friend with a really calm, easy dog and use it as a buddy for your girl. Shadow has a beagle that she adores. They walk great together and Shadow stays calmer.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

Since your dog became reactive due to being attacked when she was younger, take a moment to think about what could happen to that dog who she suddenly runs up to in an aggressive manner. Even if she has a muzzle on, how are you preventing what happened to her from happening to another dog out there? The other dog learns that when you think you are out and having fun, you can't trust there not to be something scary around the corner. 

I have been dealing with my youngest dog having reactivity toward other dogs. It has been an uphill battle, but we are finally winning the war. We helped start up a local hiking group for dogs in the area. From the moment that Doyle got off of the plane, we started his getting used to hiking with other dogs. The first few times that we were out hiking with the groups, he was good. Then around 7 or so months, he started barking at other dogs when we were out and about. I was in ways laughing it off. He was young, on leash. Couldn't really do much. 

So like a dummy, I didn't really nip it in the butt. I controlled all dog interactions that he had. He was out only with dogs who I knew. We walked on hiking trails, the local greenbelt. If we were facing dogs who I didn't know, he was close to me and I stepped in. But I was being too lax. He was getting close to hurting other dogs and the things I thought that he had down - such as his recall - were proved wrong. A dog with a true recall listens. He would listen when it was just us, but new dogs? Yeah no. He wouldn't listen.

So he lost his off leash privilege. I got lucky. Not getting to be around my other two dogs, and his friends who are running around is one of the worst punishments that he could have. Slowly but surely, with continued walks with the hiking club, working on his recall with other dogs around, working on a leave it when we walked past new dogs, he has gotten vastly better. Not 100% perfect, but he certainly is getting very good at coming when I call him. We step to the side when dogs and people go by. New dogs can come up and sniff him. They can stand near me when I have a hold of him. It has been months of work, but it worked. 

I would agree to no off leash unless you are in a place you know 100% no one else can get to. Work on finding her threshold, get her attention before. That book that was mentioned before is one that I know people love too.  It can work! But it definitely is work.


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## Kyleigh (Oct 16, 2012)

I had the same issue with Kyleigh - she was attacked 5 times in 8 months. Random dogs are NOT her friends. We are still working on building the bond of trust back between the two of us (the one that says I won't let anything happen to you ... trust me LOL)

Kyleigh's recall is PERFECT and has been since she was about 8 months old. I can call her off ANYTHING and I do mean ANYTHING. 

BUT you're timing has to be perfect ... I've been able to call her back even when the other dog is coming up to her. And she DOES come back to me - with the other dog following. I have never tried to call her off a dog if she's already going after it because by then, IMO, it's too late - her brain is somewhere else, and I missed the boat. I'm constantly scoping ahead to see what's out there ... if I see a dog, I call her back and she's on leash and we keep walking ... 

I don't walk where there's very many dogs ... some days we don't see any at all, others we see one or two, so I'm not really too concerned. 

If you can get a BOMB PROOF ROCK SOLID recall then you shouldn't have any more problems .... probably harder than it sounds LOL but all I have to offer. 

Good luck


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

I wish you all the luck with your dog. I know the battle you are going through, because you just described my dog to a "T".

Our guy is a rescue, from a neglectful home. He was chained up outside for his entire life, and has been attacked on several occasions. 

We started with a trainer once a week this past summer, but we quickly realized that this was not enough. He's now living full time with our trainer, as he works with him daily. He's been there for 2 months, and has made a doggie best friend. All other dogs are still villans to him though.

He also has littermate syndrome, and his breeding backround is sketchy. Backyard breeder looking to make a quick buck with already sketchy parents. So sad. He's a total mental case that may never get better.

I really hope you are able to make progress with your dog, and seek professional help for him if you can't do it on your own.


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## Neo-Viking (May 23, 2013)

I feel as though I've had a bit of a break through 
It's not much but it's something and any teeny tiny baby step is a massive leap as far as I'm concerned. 

The book which was recommended by onyx girl actually mentioned rewarding a reactive dog for looking at another dog.
I took my dogs out at 6am this morning and couldn't avoid a dog walker with a lot of medium to large dogs coming in the other direction.
I didn't have the squeaky ball handy so instead I went "Hey girly girly, look at all those dogggies!" and made a big thing about how fun the dogs were just as she was about to react and suddenly she looked at me and then looked at the dogs cautiously as they passed but didn't bark or lunge which was amazing! very out of her usual character!
She kept on looking, then looking again and acting a bit skittish like she was expecting something to happen but there was no reacting.
Words can't express how pleased I was with this!

To be fare the guy gave us a wide birth, he probably saw she wasn't great with dogs by the muzzle and the baby talk so he didn't come that close, but I still feel like that was a huge break through  and I'd never have even considered doing that if not for asking here.

Everyone's answers here have been amazing, I'm so pleased I came here to ask this question because everyone has said things which have been really useful.
Thank you so much for everyone's replies! 
I feel like I've been shown where the bridge is to be able to slowly cross this.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Your attitude may have played into her. Had you tensed up on the line in the past when dogs were in view? The communication going down the leash as well as tone of voice can trigger reactive behavior. 
I hope you can soon walk her without a muzzle!


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## Juliem24 (Jan 4, 2014)

Have the same issue with Rudy, but since he was adopted at 10 months, I have no idea what started his dog aggression, fear or poor socialization. He's never off leash or a long line. I avoid walks where there may be other dogs. I am a parking lot stalker: we sit in the corner of the lot and watch other people and their dogs walk into the park...that's as far as I've gotten this winter. He will be 2 next month, and weighs 10# less than me, so it's a necessary skill, I just can't seem to get him over the hump. I'll be following this post.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I hate this app. I typed out a long reply and it disappeared. 

Check out LAT training. 

Always have this dog on leash. 

Always have a way to reward good behavior. Don't leave the house without 2 balls and a pocket full of steak. 

I use the area outside a dog park for this training. I park a couple blocks away and work under threshold, getting closer day by day, but always ready to take a step back if the dog needs it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Neo-Viking said:


> The book which was recommended by onyx girl actually mentioned rewarding a reactive dog for looking at another dog.
> I took my dogs out at 6am this morning and couldn't avoid a dog walker with a lot of medium to large dogs coming in the other direction.
> I didn't have the squeaky ball handy so instead I went "Hey girly girly, look at all those dogggies!" and made a big thing about how fun the dogs were just as she was about to react and suddenly she looked at me and then looked at the dogs cautiously as they passed but didn't bark or lunge which was amazing! very out of her usual character!
> She kept on looking, then looking again and acting a bit skittish like she was expecting something to happen but there was no reacting.
> Words can't express how pleased I was with this!


The Look At That! game (LAT) is great, it gives the dog permission to check out the scary thing, but an important part of the equation is that the dog then looks back at YOU. So it should be a quick glance, or a series of quick glances at the other dog/s. You mark it when the dog looks, but the reward comes when the dog redirects to you. 

Staring is a huge trigger for many dogs, and what I like about LAT is that it prevents a prolonged stare that could cause a reaction by breaking off eye contact before it gets to that point, and it also provides a predictable 'rule structure' (as Leslie refers to it), which helps relieve stress - "I see another dog and I get to play this fun game with my person!". 



David Winners said:


> I hate this app. I typed out a long reply and it disappeared.
> 
> Check out LAT training.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

onyx'girl said:


> I am re-reading Suzanne Clothier's book_ Bones would Rain from the Sky_. I love the way she tries to see the why's and work with the dog and not do things just because.


A friend gave me that book when I had to say goodbye to my last dog...she cited chapter 19 " Matters of the heart" as the one to read regarding my situation.

It's a good book and has helped me to try and see it from my current dog's perspective.


SuperG


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## Juliem24 (Jan 4, 2014)

Thank you, I will work on the LAT training, this will be a challenge since Rudy's got that laser stare...and it's very difficult to break that attention. He is not at all interested in the treats I bring, could care less about he beloved blue stick, but I think I will try raw chicken innards...
The winter has been long and he's had less exposure, but it will help if we can see a little progress.
Last year at this time, I could not control him on leash. So he has come a long ways.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Before you start working on LAT, you can build on engagement. Teach watch, or look, or whatever you want to call it. Use a very high reward frequency, like 4 seconds max. Work on this inside for a few days until his little neck is just snapping around when you say watch. Then move to a distraction free place outside and work until you have the same response. 

Having all the tools in place first really helps.


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## Juliem24 (Jan 4, 2014)

Thank you, Dave. I really appreciate your help. Today he did actually stop and look at me on command while grumbling at the dog outside. (We were inside, and he does not let any dog walk past the house without a fearsome noise). That, I feel was a big thing for him. I did have salmon jerky luckily in my pocket, and got him immediately. Tomorrow is a snow day, so we will work some more. 
I get the concepts, but it's that step by step stuff that is so helpful! We really can't afford a trainer right now due to some bad medical luck, so it's particularly appreciated!


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