# Overprotective of my son - advice needed



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

Hello everyone. I am having a problem with my 9.5 month old female GSD that I wanted to share and looking for some much needed advice.

I have a 9.5 month female GSD along with a 12 year old female shi-tszu. I also have a 4 year old son. Since I have gotten the puppy I have been determined to make sure the dog is as socialized as possible. My worst fear is my son brings kids to the house for a playdate and something bad happens. I live close to a dog park and usually take the dog 4/5 times a week, sometimes more. We also enjoy taking the dog on weekend hiking trips, apple picking, beaches etc. Whenever we have to leave the dog for an extended amount of time we placed the dog in doggie day care. Basically we have been putting our best effort to keep the dog very involved.

I have always noticed the dog being protective of my son from an early age (maybe 6 months). I watched smaller dogs jump on my son and the dog maybe knocking the dog off and standing over a bit with some growling. My initial thoughts had me thinking this was really good. A dog becoming protective of his son while not really hurting the dog but showing more of a warning to the other dog. However as the dog as been growing these warning got more and more serious. Last night a 5 month old rott/gsd mix jumped up on the table where my son was sitting and my gsd took him down really quickly and aggressively. This made a pretty big scene at the park and I ended up putting the dog in the timeout area so I can tend to my son who fell off the table. 

I let the dog back out maybe 10 minutes later and decided just to play fetch with her until the other dog leaves. As I was playing fetch the dog came back and tried to take her ball as she dropped it for me and another brawl erupted with her pinning the dog. I think she just had enough of the dog. I am also convinced when she is the oldest dog or maybe the most dominent in the park, she exhibits more aggressive behavoir with the other dogs. All along she was super submissive and strayed away from running with the packs and the dogs schuffles at the park so this is all new.

I am starting to get concerned about the dogs aggrssiveness and looking for any advice other GSD owners with kids might have. I know its a double sided sword, as a parent I want the dog to be protective of my son but as a dog owner I want to enjoy the dog parks and etc with the whole family. I told my wife that we should stop bringing my son to the park ateast in the short term but I am not convinced this is the solution.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I think the problem is that your dog is under the impression that YOU have no part in keeping your son safe. So since no one is in charge of the safety of your son, the dog has been led to believe that it's up to him. 

But since she is a DOG, and a young dog, with no real ability to figure our real mass murderer kidnapper from not.............. you are seeing what you are seeing.

The problem, in my opinion, is YOU are not taking over the leadership role for your dog. You are leaving it to her and she's stepping up to do the best she can with her background and experience. 

In my house, it's up to ME to protect everyone. My dogs look to me and know I will step in to defend/support/lead. So if I am happy and calm when something new happens, my dogs will look to me and think 'it must be ok' and NOT over react and take over. It's not their JOB, it is mine.

DOG CLASSES!

Your pup is the perfect age to join and start attending dog classes for the next 6 months or so. Class isn't just about getting the perfect 'sit' or 'down'. They are about giving US what we need to be the leader for our dog. On the way, if we learn what WE need to learn, our dogs will listen, learn and obey better because they start learning to look to and cue from us. That is their job, look to ME and follow ME.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

Maggie - thanks for a completly useless and insulting reply. Of course I look out for my son's safety, that will always be my number one priority. This played into the choice of a gsd for the breed I chose. I also have been working with a trainer who trained GSDs for the local police department. 

The dog is off leash in a confined area, we call those dog parks in america. I am not sure what they were called in eastern germany. I was looking for someone's response who actually has kids and dealt with similiar issues not some bulletin board want a be bully.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think Maggie's reply was not "literally" that you do not watch out for the safety of your son, but your dog may "think" so..Of course she will be better to reply on her exact meaning.

I do not have kids, but I have had dogs that were big "babysitters" that "felt" they were in charge of kids (nephews and such).

Dog parks and GSD's the majority of the time just do not mix..

Whether it's 'protecting' (which I'm rather doubtful since this dog is so young), it's sounds more like resource guarding.."This kid is mine and don't interfere"

With that, if you've got a trainer, address these concerns to your trainer for his/her opinion. 

The one gsd I had who was a HUGE kid fan, would when my nephews would come over (5 & 8 yrs of age),,would follow them around like a nanny..If the the older one would start tusseling with the younger one, he (dog) would butt right in, grab the older kid by the seat of the pants and drag him off the younger one..Once he grabbed the younger one by the seat of the pants and dragged him out of the kiddie pool, the kid was yelling/waving arms, like all kids do, did the dog think he was drowning? I don't know, I've seen this dog block young kids that were standing at the top of stairs and literally push them back.

There was never any malice / growling/fighting involved on the dogs end.

So what I'm saying is, your dog should not be the one in charge of who goes near your son or not. Now how to correct this? I would again, ask your trainer.

As for the other incident of the dog coming and grabbing her ball and tussle ensued,,it was YOUR dog's toy, she wasn't sharing, I doubt she remembered the dog from being the one in the previous incident it could have been any other dog, she was having none of it, and I think that can be a pretty normal reaction.

And yes this 'resource guarding' could get worse if you don't show the dog it is not up to HER to make decisions about your son, it's up to YOU,,the dog needs to butt out.


----------



## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

EdWaz said:


> I watched smaller dogs jump on my son and the dog maybe knocking the dog off...


You've allowed this to happen in the past, so you've reinforced the behavior. Now you have to train it out of your puppy. These issues are easy to overlook in the beginning. Human dynamics in the dog park are something to consider too, because most owners would be questioning you if you swatted their dog away from your son. But it did teach your puppy something, like it or not.

It sounds as though you have an excellent trainer, so this shouldn't become a huge problem, now that you've identified it.


----------



## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

EdWaz said:


> Maggie - thanks for a completly useless and insulting reply. Of course I look out for my son's safety, that will always be my number one priority. This played into the choice of a gsd for the breed I chose. I also have been working with a trainer who trained GSDs for the local police department.
> 
> The dog is off leash in a confined area, we call those dog parks in america. I am not sure what they were called in eastern germany. I was looking for someone's response who actually has kids and dealt with similiar issues not some bulletin board want a be bully.


The reply you got was completely true. When a dog comes up to your son, it is your job to intervene before your GSD does. I also had children that were young with my previous shepherds. Yes, they can become 'overprotective'. If they know there is a leader there to step in first, you'll not have these issues. Before the dog got up onto the table, you should've moved the dog away from your son. Your dog is going to end up seeing every dog as a threat to him, and then you're going to end up with dog aggression issues that will take much longer to undo. I'd can the dog parks right now, at least if you've got your child with you. For some reason, your dog isn't trusting you to be the leader, and feels the need to intervene. Maybe because you encouraged it in some way in the beginning? You need to discuss this with your trainer. Dog classes (more than one on one) are good because they discuss more of how to train your dog and be the leader. This is what the point is. Your dog is taking matters into her own hands (so to speak) and you have to find a way to take back that control. She should be looking to you for guidance, not just taking over situations like this. It WAS good advice. Maybe all the capital letters and bigger font made you feel like it wasn't. Look beyond the font and to the message. The answer to solving your problem is right there. If she's being a bully at the dogs park, then please stop taking her there.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

EdWaz said:


> Maggie - thanks for a completly useless and insulting reply. Of course I look out for my son's safety, that will always be my number one priority. This played into the choice of a gsd for the breed I chose. I also have been working with a trainer who trained GSDs for the local police department.
> 
> The dog is off leash in a confined area, we call those dog parks in america. I am not sure what they were called in eastern germany. I was looking for someone's response who actually has kids and dealt with similiar issues not some bulletin board want a be bully.


That was one of the moderators of this sub-forum that you targeted with your snarky reply, not a bulletin board wanna be bully.  There was nothing insulting about her reply, and I suggest you read it again without a chip on your shoulder, as she was truly trying to help.

Please keep in mind that we have standards of conduct here - posts that break board rules will be edited or deleted, with warnings issued, if you can't play nice.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Maggie gave you a good advice, and she was as friendly and as understanding to a new and clueless GSD owner as possible. Your dog is developing resource guarding issues, and this is your, the owner's, fault, and you don't know how to deal with it on your own at this point. 

Your pup is also, surprise!, maturing, so you will see many new things as time goes by. Go to your trainer, ask for help, lose your attitude and start learning to handle your dog. 

PS. You don't need to thank me LOL


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

You're setting your dog up for failure - this is 100% your fault as an owner and parent. 

Stop bring your 4 year old son to the dog park. Stop bringing high value things like balls to the dog park. And if your dog is going to be aggressive with other dogs over anything, stop bringing your dog to the dog park. Dog parks are not for every dog and dogs like yours is the reason fights break out at parks and why I'd never bring my dog to one.

It sounds like you've got some resource guarding starting to develop. Your dog sees the ball and your son as his and is not sharing them with anyone. This is the real issue you should be working on.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

This is worse then the whole google/china censorship ordeal. I found maggie's reply insulting as a parent and expressed that. Also the use of the uppercase does come off insulting. 

It is very easy to write yes get more training which IMO is the easy reply. BTW - I am doing exactly that. I came here to gain other insights and hear possibly other experiences owners went through with young kids and HOW they dealt with them. I have spent a few days going through the forums and looking for other posts which could be similiar and was looking for more direct advice that an expert could give on breaking this habit.

Again - I was looking for genuine advice from owners with kids that dealt with similiar issues.

GSD07 - I will not thank you for yet another insulting and useless reply.

Jag/Blanketback/Jakoda - thank you for the insight, I am trying to look at things differently and go beyond the opinion of one trainer and appreciate your feedback.


----------



## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

In Edwaz defense, I also find that your message, Maggie, was a bit "in your face" with the capital letters, and I say that as someone who tends to emphasize using capitals, as well. 

Also, 

"DOG CLASSES!" 

Sorry, but those caps and that exclamation point read like "Take some dog classes, you idiot." I realize that's probably not how you intended to come across.

Yet, people ask questions all the time on this board who "have" taken classes, and who are even working with personal dog trainers. We want other opinions. Must we assume that all newbies are completely clueless and stupid? This isn't the first new poster who has been treated this way. (And I can't say by whom. I don't remember.)

Wouldn't it be better to write something like, "I believe your dog feels responsible for protecting your son, so next time you might want to examine why he thinks this way. It's probably something you're doing that you don't realize." Then, the OP might have shared what he was doing.

Or "If you haven't taken any dog classes, I suggest you do so. And with a breed like a GSD, it's a good idea to work with a trainer, especially if you are having issues. If you have any questions, I'm sure you'll get some good help here."

Just my two cents. I'm not trying to start controversy, but rather I'd like to avoid future controversy.

Peace.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I do not think you can tell what advice is useful, and what is not right now. Seriously, please don't get offended again, I just want to help your dog. 

You do need to stop the resource guarding but you will not do it with the help of internet. I know you are looking for shortcuts, but there are no shortcuts in dog training. 

You need someone (your trainer) to show you how to interpret your dog's body language, how to identify your dog's triggers, how to judge your dog's safe distance to the triggers, how to get perfect timing for corrections, use redirection, use of your body language, use of obedience to control your dog in such situations that involve your child. Your dog is not dominant, she is a normal young dog and she needs more training. 

See, in the situation you discribed I would say 'leave it' and my dog would stop before jumping on the table. That's what I would do and I have done, but I had to work with my dog on getting a firm understanding of the 'leave it' command first.


----------



## Matty (May 31, 2011)

Maggies reply might have been forward but I don't think that she ever meant to be insulting or to offend you in any way. Tone is really hard to use on the internet and I have interpreted so many things wrong and I have had so many people misread what I have written in the past. People will use bold letters or caps to make sure that someone doesn't miss what they say. Caps and bold words don't always mean shouting and yelling. Look past what you think you see and just focus on the specific help that Maggie and others are trying to provide. If you disagree with something someone says then that is totally fine but you have to respond in a respectful way even if you think you were disrespected to begin with.. The purpose of an internet forum is to have an open discussion and share information.

My GSD does the same thing but with our little dog. My GSD Ruby doesn't normally care about other dogs when we are at the dog park but she will come running from across the park if my little 18lbs mutt gets freaked out by a larger dog. She has even done something like this when we have all been on a walk. It's hard for me to protect my little dog from the bigger dogs when all they want to do is play with her. She is just fearful of anything larger then her. It's pretty scary what Ruby can do and how people perceive her since she is a GSD. People cross the street when we are on walks all the time because they are scared of her even though all she wants to do is love anyone to death.

I have taken Ruby to a lot of obedience classes to help become more social and have better manners. I mentioned to the trainer that Ruby will protect the little dog and she mentioned that for now I should not be out with the two of them. I need to work on them on their own until they are under my control better. This just makes sense.

This isn't a fix to your original question but I don't think children should be allowed in a dog park. Here in SoCal there are a lot of people who bring their children and let them run wild. Sometime they do this and they didn't even come with a dog. When I see this I take my my dog and go home. I have control over my dog but I have no control over the little kids who are screaming, running around, and trying to play with the dogs. It's a dog park and not a petting zoo. I have a kid on the way and I will never take her with me to the dog park. It's just not worth having her get hurt by another dog that I don't know. I would leave your kid at home so that you can focus on your dog and train accordingly.

Trying to train your dog at the dog park is like jumping into the deep end of the pool when you can swim. I'm not saying you are doing this but I think that you should try to do some one on one training. Have friends with other dogs come over and help with training in a controlled environment.

Also be picky about the trainer you use. A former police dog trainer might be really great with dogs for police work but they might not be good with dealing with resource guarding and social issues. Look for a trainer that has experience with your specific set of issues. Ask a lot of questions too. There are a lot of trainers out there that still use old methods that a lot of experts say are bad. A lot of people will run the other direction if a trainer mentioned "alpha roll" or some other kind of dominance training.

I like to think that I am pretty good with dogs but if you or anyone has a different opinion or idea please jump in.


----------



## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

I have had kids and gsds and while you might think it's
nice that your dog will protect you child. they can end up wanting to protect them when they don't need it. Like when other kids are playing wild with yours. There is alot of different veiws about dog parks on this site, and I have no use for them.Just too many things that I can't control. I would not take kids there because you don't know how other peoples dogs will act I would rather have my dog around other dogs in group classes.I will not put my dog or kids at risk. I do all lot of training and then had to be very watchful that my dog never thought someone who was'nt a threat was


----------



## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

Regarding the dog park, in general I do not think it is wise to bring a 4 year old into a dog park, no matter what breed of dog you have. Dogs and young children are unpredictable, not a good mix.

Your dog is also entering adolescence, things will change. That perfect, well behaved puppy will definitely start displaying it's protectiveness at undesirable times. Our dog was the doll of the dog park until she was about 10-11months, then she was attacked by another female GSD, and she herself started to act more aggressive than I was comfortable with.

Are there any fun GSD clubs near you? I met with some people and their GSD's from this website last June and discovered my dog played really well with other GSD's. Are their any training facilities that allow you to bring your child? Four years old is a bit young, but our trainer does allow children to be next to their parents or handle their dog at training (as long as they're well behaved). You may want to look into some fun agility classes or clubs as a way for your dog to still have socialization, learn challenging skills and exert energy, you can do it as a family. Although expensive, I would also suggest one or two private lessons with a trainer. They will be objective and let you know how to handle your dog, advise if your dog is just being a GSD or has more serious issues.


----------



## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

I also don't believe that young children should be in dog parks. The "rules" at our park clearly state that no children under the age of 12 are allowed, although that rule is broken rather frequently. 

Things can change on a dime, and I don't think it is possible to protect one's child and one's dog at the same time.

To the original poster - I hope you stay around. This is an excellent board to absorb information, and the folks are really quite friendly and helpful, even if we don't always come across as such.

Good luck with your dog. My GSD, Teddy, resources guards me with new/strange dogs at the dog park, so I know that it can be a problem, although it has not escalated into anything serious. We're working on it, though.  Right now, all she does is place herself between me and the other dog, but it is very obvious.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Bruised egos aside one of the issues with any forum is that you cannot see the person whose advice you are reading so you may take it differently than it is meant. Maggie is knowledgeable and was trying to help as was GSD007 as is everyone.

The core issue is the dog and the child. It also seems like resource guarding to me which is NOT good and can escalate to where the dog starts to "protect" the child from its own family. Actually, from the accounts of my mother's childhood that is exactly how her first GSD in the 1930s wound up shot - it attacked her father for spanking her. I am not sure why the sound advice given was taken the way it was.

Well, I avoid dog parks like the plague and have some very well properly socialized dogs. That said, I have to agree that a well led obedience class with a good teacher would be of great value. Someone who knows the breed and can help steer you through their bumpy teenage months.

GSDs around this age can be very much a handful and it is very important that they are led down the proper forks in the road as they grow.

FWIW, I had a GSD mix as a child, raised my two daughters with GSDs, and my two grandaughters are around my GSDs frequently as well. So I am experienced with GSDs and children. I cannot reply that I have ever had a problem with resource guarding and my extent of protection was the dog would bark if something was out of order. Slipperly slope for a dog to protect anyone - particularly if you rely on the dog to make the decisions on when and what to protect.


----------



## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

EdWaz said:


> I am also convinced when she is the oldest dog or maybe the most dominent in the park, she exhibits more aggressive behavoir with the other dogs. *All along she was super submissive and strayed away from running with the packs and the dogs schuffles at the park so this is all new*.
> 
> I am starting to get concerned about the dogs aggrssiveness and looking for any advice other GSD owners with kids might have. I know its a double sided sword, as a parent I want the dog to be protective of my son but as a dog owner I want to enjoy the dog parks and etc with the whole family. I told my wife that we should stop bringing my son to the park ateast in the short term but I am not convinced this is the solution.


While there is resource guarding from description, the bold part above stuck out as well.

I'm wondering if what was seen as submissive was actually some fear. Once the pup saw staying out of the crowd wasn't working for her, she decided to take matters into her own paws.

Once the pup got into the spat with the other pup, it isn't surprising there was another issue with a dog within a few minutes, add in a toy, almost a sure bet.

Since it appears the child is the resource, I would suggest controlling all interactions between the child and pup. Pup gets to cuddle with child when you say so, same for any activity between the 2 of them. If pup begins blocking completely remove the pup. If another dog is involved, I would remove the child completely to avoid him being hurt. My opinion is a combination of child and pup in dog park is an accident waiting right now and should be avoided. All of this is management suggestions until you get a trainer involved and they can see what is happening.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

The kids in a dog park sounds like it could have an entire thread dedicated to it. Like I said I bring the dog 4/5 times a week sometimes more. I probably bring my son half the time. This is the first incident other then noticing some behavoir with the dog. I usually leave my son either on my shoulders, or in the small dog play area which is fenced in seperated from the large big dog area or in the big dog area. If it is the big dog area, I will have him sit at the picinic table with a book and I usually play fetch with my dog off a few feet to the side. Thats the usual setup. Again this can have a separate thread dedicated to it but I do too have reservations about bringing my son to the park. Due to the fact my son really enjoys it and my wife works nights during the week I bring him.

Regarding intervening before the dog had the ability to jump on the table, this all happened so fast and wasn't an option yesterday. My take away from this is I need to be better positioned for this and maybe stay physically between my dog and son at all times if I bring him to the park. When this happened yesterday my puppy was running with another dog and the younger pup jumped up on the table and she followed. Basically it all happened so quick.

GSD07 - I am not looking for any shortcuts as you put it, I am looking for additional information and conducting as much research into the situation so I can make more sound changes in my training with the dog. I am also working with a trainer but wanted to hear feedback from a wider audience in addition to the feedback from my trainer. Is this so difficult to comprehend? How old was your dog when you got down the leave it? I haven't started this command yet but I do have "Drop" down pact. Why don't you explain how you were able to teach your dog the leave it command by highlighting examples of situations you simulated to achieve this. This would be extremely helpful far beyond me I would imagine.

Jo/Matty/Gretchen/Midnight/twyla/jocoyn - thanks again for feedback, that is constructive. A special callout for Jo.

Again I am seeing many responses saying we had to work this out but how did you do this? Also can you give me specific examples? I am not looking for books written on it but I am very curious on how you can simulate such events so you can correct the bad behavoir.

Also alot of mentions of socializing the dog outside from taking the dog to the dog park. Can you give me some examples of this? Maybe I just live in a really dog unfriendly area.

Thanks everyone for the replies, its very useful.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't have kids, I don't go to dog parks, I sometimes use capitals but not usually as an insult, rather to put emphasis on a word.

As for socializing, I go to dog classes where people work with their dogs while I work with my dog, in a controlled setting (everyone is ON leash, and people are NOT letting dogs interact with each other). 

Another socialization opportunity is the bike path, dogs are on leash, there are cyclists, strollers, children, old people, young people, skaters, and the occasional horse. 

There are often benches outside a local drug/dime store. Sitting there with the pup and letting the rest of the world just walk on by, occasionally someone will stop and talk to you or ask to pet your pup.

You can take your pet to certain dog-friendly businesses, such at a pet store and some hardware/do-it-yourself type stores. 

Walks, walk your pup different times of the day, through the business section of town, through residential section, past the play ground, and into the people park (on lead if they are allowed), and if allowed to the beach. 

Frankly, I think the dog park really is not the best place to socialize a puppy. Sometimes its just you and another dog about your dog's age, but much more often there are mature dogs there and owners who are sometimes very experienced, and sometimes not experienced at all, and have no business being there with that dog. If you want to socialize your dogs to children, having a bunch of dogs running back and forth totally amped up, is not the place to do it. It is not the place to socialize the dog to any people, and really, it depends on what you want from a dog, whether it makes sense to have them socialized to dogs the way they are in a dog park. 

Your dog can live a complete and happy life without EVER running around with other dogs. You and your family is his pack now, and he will be very happy to play and romp with them. You can have a great time at the dog park, but a puppy can be bullied (it sounds like this may have been happening), and when you attention is split between a very young son, and a pup, you might not notice in time when a dog might launch an all out attack. The way to manage dogs running together is to deal with issues BEFORE they develop. 

Ok, I commented even though I don't have kids. I have two Goddaughters/nieces who I am with at least one day every week and who are both 5. I wouldn't dream of trying to take them to a dog park. And they are great kids, both in the first grade, both excellent in behavior, etc. I have taken them to dog shows. I have taken them to the bike path (without my dog) with their bikes. Which means I am exposing them to dogs, but I am not fettered by having my own dog at the same time. But I realize if I had them 24/7 I would probably be a lot more comfortable with dealing with them and a dog, but I still don't think taking them to a place where dogs are running around, amped up, and loose together, I just don't think so.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

There are many ways to teach a dog a command, depends on the dog. For me, 'leave it' is an essential command, I teach it along with 'sit' and 'come'. It takes a while to proof it, too. Personally, I taught it with negative reinforcement, probably not the best way but it was the best way for us for this particular command at the time. 

One way to teach it using negative reinforcement: take your dog on a prong, spill super treats around. When your dog wants to pick a treat, say your command, and give a correction (the correction has to be properly measured). The second the dog is not interested in a treat and looks at you, praise and give a treat that is different from the one on the ground (optional). Repeat, will take maximum 2 more times, then the dog just looks at you and gets his super praise and reward. Discard the treats from the ground. Move to other situations slowly, proof, and make sure that the dog makes the association 'following the command - good, not following - bad' only, and does not associate the correction with the object of his interest that you want him to leave. 

You have to have an excellent timing for the above excercise, and a proper level of correction that is not nagging, and not too strong. Watch your dog and adjust appropriately based on the response. 

Again, what works for me and my dog may not work for you in the same way. That's why I would stick to the trainer's advice since he knows you and your dog.


----------



## Jo_in_TX (Feb 14, 2012)

Another way to teach "leave it."

Hold a nice, high value, smelly treat in your fist and let your dog sniff. He'll probably work real hard to get it. As soon as he backs away, "click" and then treat with something else from your other hand. After a few times, practice with the treat in your open hand. Then, practice with the treat on the floor between you. 

"How To Train a Dog To Leave It" on Youtube.





 
All of his videos are excellent!

Good luck.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think you have great advice already on socialization. For a GSD socialization often means ignores other dogs. Dog neutral. They really don't need to be playing with other dogs. But it sounds like she is getting plenty of quality family time and that does not mean you can't go out with friends and their dogs as long as they are properly introduced etc. Talk to Anthony8858 about his experiences with dog parks.

For the resource guarding. I would still get in that class with someone good. Or do one on one. If you can put a general geographical location I am certain folks can steer you to someone who can help. I have had GSDs as an adult since 1985 but I still took my current boy in for some help when I was having major issues with him not releasing a toy. A few minutes with someone who knows what they are doing and sees you with your dog can work wonders.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i didn't take my children to the dog park. i don't
bring any of my dogs toys to the dog park. i don't
play retrieving games in the dog park because
that involves toys. i think your dog needs more
socializing and training. 

i can see where you might think Maggie's post was
harsh but i'm sure she didn't mean it to be that way.


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Jag said:


> The reply you got was completely true. When a dog comes up to your son, it is your job to intervene before your GSD does. I also had children that were young with my previous shepherds. Yes, they can become 'overprotective'. If they know there is a leader there to step in first, you'll not have these issues. Before the dog got up onto the table, you should've moved the dog away from your son. Your dog is going to end up seeing every dog as a threat to him, and then you're going to end up with dog aggression issues that will take much longer to undo. I'd can the dog parks right now, at least if you've got your child with you. For some reason, your dog isn't trusting you to be the leader, and feels the need to intervene. Maybe because you encouraged it in some way in the beginning? You need to discuss this with your trainer. Dog classes (more than one on one) are good because they discuss more of how to train your dog and be the leader. This is what the point is. Your dog is taking matters into her own hands (so to speak) and you have to find a way to take back that control. She should be looking to you for guidance, not just taking over situations like this. It WAS good advice. Maybe all the capital letters and bigger font made you feel like it wasn't. Look beyond the font and to the message. The answer to solving your problem is right there. If she's being a bully at the dogs park, then please stop taking her there.


Thanks Jag! Hopefully you've been able to post in a manner that was less confusing than mine.

And thanks to everyone else for the additional well thought out responses. Should be some good help for the OP. (and I wanted to put that in bold and capital and larger letters for emphasis but didn't want to upset anyone  ) 

:wub:


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Again - I was looking for genuine advice from owners with kids that dealt with similiar issues.


You don't have to be a parent who has dealt with this. It happens all the time in "dogdom".

A dog feels "protective" of it's owner, or it's owner's kids.
Another dog wants to jump on or get attention from, especially some strange dog at a park, and boom there's going to be trouble, whether the "jumpee" is a kid or adult or teen.

Everyone so far has given great advice, starting with Maggie, so take heed and get thee to classes. Also leave the kid at home if you want to bring the dog to the dog park.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks again for the replies, I do think Jaokoda is more on point here with my son being more of a resource then actually being protective.

I took the dog to the dog park last night by myself to observe her behavoir and everything went well. I will keep observing over the next few visits.


----------



## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Either way, there's not a lot of difference in how you treat it - just don't allow it.
You could say "resource guard", or "safety guard", end result is the same, dog doesn't allow other dogs to get close, and that's a problem.
Intervention or prevention totally by eliminating the issue, both will work.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with no difference in how it's treated, good luck !


----------



## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

I am a parent of 3 and a dog owner of 2. First off what you descirbe sounds like over protectiveness of your son as your dog was fighting with another dog. And if the other dog went after your dogs ball that is a reason for a scuffle. My female would not allow my male to take her ball no way! Dog parks bring out the worse in some dogs. Thats why alot of people will not take their dogs to a dog park. You cant control what other dogs do or how they act towards your dogs.
Does your dog growl and over react to humans approaching your child? that would be more over protection to me.
Also how much GSD expiernce do you have? You said you have a ****z shu too and they are so different in so many ways.
My 8 month old is protective of me and my daughter.He will bark,raise heckles and scare the crap out of anyone he feels a threat,but the way i react to how he is reacting is what will calm him down that everything is ok in which case i have him do a sit and stay until the person passes,or if im not sure myself i say lets go and we keep walking and he focus on me.
We have little kids over all the time. He is a big clutz and will run and knock them over and his herding instince kicks in and will nip at their ankles. I am selective on who can play in yard with my kids and dogs. The parents know my pup is big and goofy and ma knock their kids down. They are dog parents too so they understand. Inside my house the rules are differnt no running or crazy behavoir from kids or puppy allowed. That solves alot for me.If there is a crazy game kids want to play they can play downstairs while the dogs stay upstairs.
I dont know if thei helped,but you said you had a police trainer working with you and im sure they have better advice than i can give. 
But what you ahve described does not sound like over protectiveness of your son to me...just a dog that 1. didnt want another dog jumping 2. didnt want a dog to take her ball
Does your dog usually play well with other dogs? When my pup plays he sounds like he is a rabid growling attack cujo dog...but thats hwo he plays. GSD's can be very vocal.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

I don't have GSD experience until this puppy. I have had two newfoundlands previously (one after the other) and I know I need to adjust my training because I am where I am compared to the gentle giants.

The only thing I noticed last night was the dog did let out a growl when I was talking to someone through the chain link fence and with the dog standing beside me another dog forcefully entered her space while jumping on the fence.

The dog has never showed any aggression towards people.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

EdWaz said:


> The dog has never showed any aggression towards people.



Your dog is just starting to reach his "teenage years" at 9 months. It's a dogs version of puberty and you are going to see some changes. 

This is the time when you're really going to have to up your socialization and training in a controlled environment. Probably not what you want to hear, but I would completely stop with the dog parks for now. It's too much stimulus for him and he's reacting with aggression. A dog fighting with other dogs and showing aggression towards people, even if it's just a stage, should not be put in the dog park setting.

As suggested, you really should get your dog in an obedience class. A dog class is controlled and you've got an instructor there for guidance when you have questions. You work with the dog around other dogs and people he's not familiar with. That should be your foundation. From there, you can start socializing again in safe situations and not putting other dogs or people at risk.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

actually Paul, I think he mentioned he is in training with someone who trains PD dogs?

Q> is that one on one training or are you in a class type setting? It might behoove you to try a class setting with other dogs to work on being non aggressive/ignoring/ and generally just being able to 'hang' around other dogs (not playing interacting with) with no reactions.

I have never met a newfie with a mean bone in their big furry bodies GSD's as I think your finding out are a little different than newfies

Just to add, I am not a fan of dog parks with my gsd's, just wouldn't work for mine, they are to pushy/rough players/ and wouldn't back down from something they perceived as rude behavior by another dog.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Hmmmm. On Newfies -- yeah I got bit by one when I was about 10. It was my fault, I was playing with him the way we played with my grandmother's dachsund and well he nailed me, thirty some years later, I still have a scar. 

And Joy, I had her at the classic getting her RN, and some Newfoundland show dog charged her! I thought wow, that is a terrible temperament for a newf. 

But I agree, this dog is still pretty young, and might not have exhibited her complete adult temperament yet. This is where we have to dig in our heels and grit our teeth and trust that a year from now it won't be so hard.


----------



## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Diane... you're right, I forgot he mentioned that. I didn't read the whole thread again today, just that last post.

I'd also like to know about the training your currently doing. I think some group classes would do a lot more good than just one on one stuff (assuming that's what you're currently doing). Not just for the training aspect of it, but socialization too. Training the pup to listen and focus with everything else going on around him. Kind of like a dog park, but in a much more controlled setting.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Sue, well I haven't met any newfies lately, so as with most breeds going down the tubes, they may have changed somewhat since I used to see alot of them


----------



## apenn0006 (Jun 22, 2012)

I also have a 4 year old and YES she goes to the dog park with me (gasp!) My child is either on my hip the whole time or standing right by me holding my hand. She is not allowed to play with the other dogs or allowed to pet unless one comes to sit at our feet nicely. It has been an EXCELLENT experience for my daughter on how to interact with other dogs...I guess you could say I'm socializing both dog and child. Granted, the times we have gone to the dog park there were maybe only a few dogs there and all our experiences have been positive. The ones we have been to only specify that children under a certain age have to be supervised by an adult. I'm wondering if you would have even noticed this behavior if you hadn't been taking your son. It's probably a good thing your catching it now. Good luck.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

All the training I have been doing has been one on one. Someone mentioned the gsd clubs and I have already been inquiring about these in my area. But besides these the only really group training I am aware of is the petco/petsmart type deals which everyone around me has been preaching to stay away from.

I like to bring the dog to the dog park to conduct some training because for the most part I can keep the dog focused on me as all the normal commotion within a dog park is happening around me. The events I noted in previous posts where when I let the dog run free. If I engage the dog I could have him remain focused on me and I thought this was really good to practice. An example of this is when lets say a new dog comes to the park. Pretty much all the dogs go and wait at the entrance for the new dog to enter. When this is happening I can call my dog over and run through some fetch or other exercises and keep him away from the pack. I usually do this when new dogs enter anyway just out of courtesy for the person trying to enter. As it could be overwhelming when 10 or so dogs are waiting all by the door making it difficult to get in. And from I witnessed from other events with other dogs this is sometimes where incidents happen.

I do bring my son to the kids playground and while he is playing off to the side I engage the dog in some exercises so he can practice with some normal distractions. However when loose dogs wander over it can be difficult to keep his attention. At the dog park, the dog displays better discipline when other dogs venture into our area that we are using. 

Regarding the dog park, I don't bring any toys in and they are prohibited. The park does provide a slew of tennis balls which are distributed through the park.


----------



## EdWaz (Sep 25, 2012)

Jakoda - the training I have conducted with the PD trainer is a very highly regarded trainer in my area with limited availability. I haven't had another one on one since this is happening which again has been recent.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

gotcha,,I would call him up and discuss what has been going on, see what his suggestions are, always good to get another perspective


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

EdWaz, a great help to everyone on future posts is if you can go up to the narrow black strip along the top of the page, hit the User CP and add your general location. That way people can give much more specific help even maybe with a specific class or trainer that would fit right into your routine.

aw:


----------

