# At the end of my rope



## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

we adopted Juta last April from the local dog pound. She came from a breeder that went bankrupt. She is now 6 years old. I was told that she was not housebroken, since she lived her first 5 years in a kennel.
I have a lot of dogs before and never had any problem potty training them. 
I take her religiously out, my neigbors tease me about it.
She has no problem taking care of business. For the last 8 months I have worked on getting her potty trained.
I failed. And please no talk about UTI because she just finished her antibiotics for UTI (The vet said she did not have any UTI but to finish the meds) this is the 3rd time that I spend $280. 
well I am at the end of my rope.
She is a gentle dog and very sweet, but I cannot keep a dog that cannot be potty trained.

I think that because she lived the first 5 years in a kennel, she is untrainable.
Anyone out there that can adopt her ? Don't want to give her to a shelter?

Very sad, but out of choices:help::help::help:


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Was she a breeder? Is she incontinent vs just not being housetrained? I wonder if you put her on a raw diet if that would help at all...dogs that eat raw drink much less water and I've read where it will help w/ incontinence.
Until you've exhausted all options, I wouldn't re-home her or she may end up at a shelter because of her problem.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

No she was never bred, because she failed schutzhund training. She is very sweet, with other dogs and even cats. Off course she loves to chase deer of the property.
She walks off leash right next to me, when he smells a deer I just tell her "No" and she stays next to me.
as for incontinence no because she is quite able to hold it for the whole night.
Besides I have been with her pretty much all the time since I got her. and I believe I exhausted all my options. I am just afraid that the shelter will euthanize her, since it will be the second time around.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

She sounds like a really well trained dog except for the housetraining. 

What method are you using to potty train her? 
What do you do when she has an accident in the house? 
Do you use a crate? 

Sorry for all the questions bu maybe if you explain what you're doing someone can offer an alternative that might work.


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## Zan (Nov 12, 2010)

Does she actually squat to pee inside? If you haven't seen her do this, don't rule out incontinence. My 10 year old GSD had incontinence...there is a med that works really well, can't recall the name of it right now. But she would have no clue sometimes that pee was just running out of her, standing up or lying down, before we got it diagnosed and treated. She never wet on bed at night, either.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

Zan said:


> Does she actually squat to pee inside? If you haven't seen her do this, don't rule out incontinence. My 10 year old GSD had incontinence...there is a med that works really well, can't recall the name of it right now. But she would have no clue sometimes that pee was just running out of her, standing up or lying down, before we got it diagnosed and treated. She never wet on bed at night, either.


She squats, and she hides where she squats,like under the dining table


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

Whiteshepherds said:


> She sounds like a really well trained dog except for the housetraining.
> 
> What method are you using to potty train her?
> What do you do when she has an accident in the house?
> ...


every bowl movement that she does, (1 or 2) she gets a good girl, when I see her squat I tell her no and bad girl and take her outside. I am a strong believer in positive training and consistency. And I do this all the time diligently for the last 9 months.
I normally do not crate her, well started crating her tonite.But she hates the crate


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I've heard of this before with dogs that lived in kennels their whole lives. Not so much with yard dogs because they are able to have a spot set aside to go, but when dogs are forced to sleep where they eliminate for years it can be extremely hard to housebreak them. 

I hate to say it, but she may end up having to be an outside dog.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I've heard of this before with dogs that lived in kennels their whole lives. Not so much with yard dogs because they are able to have a spot set aside to go, but when dogs are forced to sleep where they eliminate for years it can be extremely hard to housebreak them.
> 
> I hate to say it, but she may end up having to be an outside dog.


I live In the Hudson Valley where temperatures drop quite low. I don't think that is an option.
But I am starting to believe that you are right about the kennel dogs.
The worst part is that she really is a perfect dog every other way, non aggressive, gentle loves dogs, and rarely barks. have heard her bark 3 times in 9 months


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I would really try crate training all the way from the beginning....see if you can rewire her to understand only "potty" outside....I am sorry you are going through this.....


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

I just don't believe in crating, think that it is not fair to "cage" an animal in a crate where they can't stretch.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So buy one large enough for her to stretch in. Dogs are den animals. Mine love their crates when they are covered with something. You might find it makes her feel safe.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Crate her and teach her to love the crate. You give her to the shelter and she'll end up in a kennel or a crate ANYWAY ... so why not give it a try?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

When I started with dogs I didn't believe in crating either but after crate training a number of dogs, including some rescues who came to me with all kinds of issues, I now think they are a very useful and kind training tool. I also think that you have to make the crate a wonderful place for the dog--feed her in there, give her treats and bones in there and get her used to it before just shutting her in there. 

I would also keep her leashed to you in the house. It is possible to housebreak her but it is going to take discipline and flexibility on your part. Basically you need to treat her like a puppy--no freedom until she gets it.


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## BadLieutenant (May 9, 2010)

Juta said:


> I just don't believe in crating, think that it is not fair to "cage" an animal in a crate where they can't stretch.


I believed this also with my last dog and had the same problems you are having now........I now crate and have no house training issues at all.....crate, crate, crate


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Juta said:


> I just don't believe in crating, think that it is not fair to "cage" an animal in a crate where they can't stretch.


My dogs don't stretch much when they're asleep.  Seriously, if you care about this dog and are committed to keeping her you need to get over your attitude about crates. I mean that in the kindest possible way. :hugs: As Jason said, if you can't housebreak her and take her to a shelter she's going to be confined anyway. 

Even though she's an adult I'd suggest starting over at square one like she's a brand new puppy. Crate her when you can't directly supervise (eyes on, close enough to touch her - better yet, how about tethered to you by a leash?), take her out frequently, and instead of just praise, give her a very high value treat each time too. Be enthusiastic when she does her business outdoors, act like she just did something amazing like cure cancer. 

Are you cleaning up her accidents with an enzyme cleaner? If not, you can be sure she can still smell it and will be continually attracted back to those places. You have to be very diligent, you have to make sure that she has absolutely no chance at making a mistake and pottying indoors.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

If she were incontinent would you still rehome her?

I agree with everyone else. Do some reading on using a crate properly and keep her tethered to you. Try everything.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> So buy one large enough for her to stretch in.


I would but that defeats the crate. she will lay down a foot from where she pees in the kitchen


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Huh. 

Well, I like BIG crates, but when I need to I will go down a size to a size that is just the get up, turn around size to help foster puppies "get" the house training better. But all my adult fosters have learned housetraining super fast! It's been great. 

In my mind it's unusual for GSDs to have this issue - that's just me. I can see hounds, toy breeds, etc. So this is interesting. 

Anyway, I would start with a smaller crate - watching to make sure how she did in it before ever leaving her. Then if it works, work your way up to a more breathable (for us) size, an x-pen, or a kennel that you can setup inside (I have one that's black 4x4 - no top from Petsmart) to help her out.* But I would do this after ruling out the info below. *

I too wonder about some weird incontinence - sometimes during a spay things can get nicked. This would be a question I would ask. I am not sure if an ultrasound would catch anything like that. There are also *adhesions* that can form and *stump granulomas:* WHOOPS! SPAY NEUTER COMPLICATIONS AND HOW TO AVOID THEM 

There was even a dog on IMOM who had 2 ureters! I mean...wow, right! 

You are probably close enough to hit internal med at Cornell. I wouldn't mess around with this - I would want someone curious enough and OCD enough to be thinking of this ahead of me.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Juta said:


> I just don't believe in crating, think that it is not fair to "cage" an animal in a crate where they can't stretch.


Just because we humans wouldn't want to be crated, don't make the mistake of thinking that dogs consider it punishment or cruel or unfair.

When we first got Shasta at 8 weeks, we purchased a 42" crate. After several months, my husband felt she had outgrown that crate and so we purchased a 48" crate. I moved the smaller crate into our daughter's bedroom, which is vacant while she's away at school.

Now we keep the door to our daughter's bedroom closed most of the time so that Shasta can't go in and bother her things, but since our daughter has been home over the Christmas holiday, the door is open most of the time. What is funny is that whenever Shasta gets a chance, she bolts for our daughter's bedroom and that 42" crate. She heads straight into the crate, curls up and makes it obvious that she doesn't intend to leave.

She fills that crate up to overflowing; she can barely turn around, certainly can't stretch out and sitting up straight is out of the question, but she loves that tiny little crate.

I think your best chance is to try crate training her just as if she were an 8 week old puppy. Outside to potty; if she goes, she earns some freedom when she comes back in. If she doesn't go, it's inside and back to the crate until it's time to go outside again. I just don't see how that's any more unfair to the dog than putting her in a situation where you know she's going to fail.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Then you have to use a smaller crate. The way I look at it: you can either crate her and subject her to some momentary"discomfort" (but like Ruth said, there are so many ways to teach a dog to love her crate) or you surrender her and then god knows what will happen to the dog ... to me at least, it's an easy choice - crate!


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Juta said:


> every bowl movement that she does, (1 or 2) she gets a good girl, *when I see her squat I tell her no and bad girl and take her outside. *I am a strong believer in positive training and consistency.





Juta said:


> She squats,* and she hides where she squats*,like under the dining table


If she's hiding she understands she's doing something wrong but *don't assume she knows that peeing in the house is wrong. She may think peeing is wrong.* If you tell her "bad girl" and she's sensitive to verbal corrections she may very well be hiding when she has to go to avoid the "punishment". (BAD GIRL) Positive training is all about enforcing and praising correct responses, not scolding for the bad ones. (easier said then done I know)

I know this would be 100 times easier if she was a puppy but if it were me I'd be watching her like a hawk and the minute I saw her heading for the table or going behind a chair I'd be taking her outside. I'd be taking her outside every couple of hours, along with right after she drinks or eats.

If I caught her mid stream I'd give her a quick "ah ah" to get her attention and then say "let's go outside". No "bad girl", no angry tone of voice etc.

The crate may or may not work but it's worth a try.

It would be so sad to see this dog given back to a shelter, I hope it works out for you.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

*I will try anything*

Don't get me wrong, she is a perfect dog all the way around. well except for the pottying.
I appreciate all the good advice. I crated her now, gave her a treat, and will thether her to me when she is in the house,and crate her when I cannot supervise her.
will see, because she is a smart girl.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Juta said:


> Don't get me wrong, she is a perfect dog all the way around. well except for the pottying.
> I appreciate all the good advice. I crated her now, gave her a treat, and will thether her to me when she is in the house,and crate her when I cannot supervise her.
> will see, because she is a smart girl.


I hope it works out. She sounds like a wonderful dog and certainly worth the extra effort.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

If the crating/tethering does not work then I would take Jean's advice and have her checked out by a vet specifically for incontinence or a related medical issue.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Having read through all of this, I have to say I am very happy that you have decided to go with 100% supervision with crating. I think that will work for you much better. Another thing to consider is praising the everything out of her when she does the deed out of doors.


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## vat (Jul 23, 2010)

Does she know how to ask to go out? When I train my pups I hang bells on the door and ring them each time we go out. They learn to ring the bells to ask to go out.


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## jkscandi50 (Nov 17, 2010)

Hey Juta's mom - she sounds like a great dog - my daughter and I once fostered a female pitty that had NEVER been in a house (probably tied to a tree her whole life), she was about 4 or 5 years old - same issue - trying to get her potty trained - crated her and walked at specific times - even so, it took me 3 mos. to get her potty trained - and what worked for us was when she pottied outside on our walks she not only was praised, she was given treats - and when I couldn't be with her (i.e. my eyes on her), she was in a crate - and yes, lots of crate clean up at first (and it was poop and pee) - I'd have to wash her legs before letting her out of the crate sometimes - but she got it - It sounds like you're doing a great job and it'll just take time - but she will get, she is a GSD after all


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I have to say I believe in crate training 100% and I don't know how people train puppies and keep them safe without using a crate. 
I do have one suggestion I've never heard of it being tried but I do know it's one thing I would think of in your situation if I felt like I had exhausted the crate training. 
If it's just her peeing in the house how about using the pants that people put on females when they're in heat, you may have to put an extra liner in them.
If it's not a medical reason for her doing it maybe if the urine actally gets her wet in the house and outside it doesn't she'll make a connection with that. 
I know this may sound mean to some, but if it worked.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Huh.
> 
> Well, I like BIG crates, but when I need to I will go down a size to a size that is just the get up, turn around size to help foster puppies "get" the house training better. But all my adult fosters have learned housetraining super fast! It's been great.
> 
> ...


Hate to be the egotist that quotes themselves, but there could be a physical cause for this behavior that I would want to rule out. I would give the crate and tether a week (knowing that this could create anxiety in her and worrying about risk of a UTI) and then go forward medically if I wasn't seeing 100% results. I would hate to put a dog through a program when there is something like this going on.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Hate to be the egotist that quotes themselves, but there could be a physical cause for this behavior that I would want to rule out. I would give the crate and tether a week (knowing that this could create anxiety in her and worrying about risk of a UTI) and then go forward medically if I wasn't seeing 100% results. I would hate to put a dog through a program when there is something like this going on.


I used the same vet that spayed her when she was in the shelter, we have been 3 times to the vet and checked her for incontinence and UTI. Last time we took her 2 weeks ago and she just finished her meds, which he insisted that I finish, even though there was no UTI. I don't know but at 280 dollars a pop. Plus incontinence would show every day, she was good for the last 3 weeks no accidents, and than started again 
peeing.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I would say time to get another opinion, find another vet and bring copies of all your tests, and meds she has been on. Something is up if she was accident free for several weeks and then started peeing again. Poor girl, I hope you get to the bottom of it soon.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

*That was a failure*



vat said:


> Does she know how to ask to go out? When I train my pups I hang bells on the door and ring them each time we go out. They learn to ring the bells to ask to go out.


I hung up some bells on the door today, yes she is smart, she started ringing the bells, but not for potty, just to go out.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

*how long can you keep a dog in a crate*

how long can you keep a dog in a crate, I mean at a time?


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Well think of it this way....most people go to a job everyday.....


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> well think of it this way....most people go to a job everyday.....


lol!


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Well think of it this way....most people go to a job everyday.....


Yes but so I am supposed to keep her in a crate for 10 hours in the day time and then put her back for another 6 when I go to sleep?


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Until you figure out what the problem is....medical or otherwise...yes. 
I would get another opinion and in the meantime I would start crate training like she is a puppy.


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Juta said:


> Yes but so I am supposed to keep her in a crate for 10 hours in the day time and then put her back for another 6 when I go to sleep?


It's only temporary until she gets it. You can't give them the opportunity to go in the house if you can't be right there to correct it. That's why crate training is so effective. I've done it with three puppies (and countless fosters) and it's never taken more than two weeks. And my puppies were sleeping through the night (in their crates) by 12 weeks for at least eight hours. This should be no problem for an adult dog barring any medical issues. Most dogs sleep during the day anyway. What's the difference if it's in the crate or not? It's not like he's going to be playing by himself with you not there.

Look at it this way, if you give her back to the shelter, she's going to be caged 24/7 except to go potty. That's a lot worse that a temporary confinement, IMO.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

*Progress report*



IllinoisNative said:


> It's only temporary until she gets it. You can't give them the opportunity to go in the house if you can't be right there to correct it. That's why crate training is so effective. I've done it with three puppies (and countless fosters) and it's never taken more than two weeks. And my puppies were sleeping through the night (in their crates) by 12 weeks for at least eight hours. This should be no problem for an adult dog barring any medical issues. Most dogs sleep during the day anyway. What's the difference if it's in the crate or not? It's not like he's going to be playing by himself with you not there.
> 
> Look at it this way, if you give her back to the shelter, she's going to be caged 24/7 except to go potty. That's a lot worse that a temporary confinement, IMO.


well she spend last night in the crate, tonite we went out for dinner and crated her again.Came home , took her out and now she doe not want to go in the crate. Do not want to force her, somehow I think she will be fine. Another thing that may have freaked her out was my son came home from college, and fed her a bunch of "begging strips" I figured that she probably ate a bunch of them and drank a lot.... hence the peeing.
as for the bells, she got the idea that I will let her out if she ring, but not for peeing, just to go out.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Any updates?


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Juta said:


> I will let her out if she ring, but not for peeing, just to go out.


 Let her out, if she doesn't pee then she goes back in right away. Repeat many times until she rings the bell, goes out and pees. Then play ball with her or chase or whatever she likes to do, and spend some extended time outside. She will get the idea of the true meaning of the bell very quickly.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I had a dog who was "trained" to pee in the crate by previous owners who did not take him out enough. Wow! 

I had frustrations with him standing ankle deep in pee in crate in the house. But, I was persistent. Just when I thought he would not make the leap and I was near the end, he got it. Even when being in his crate he waited to go out finally!

They can learn. But it can be a bit of a long road. For your dog, it seems unfair not to crate her. She faces the loss of a home and possible loss of life. I know if it were me, I would gladly trade crate training for those options!

Dog lovers of the extreme degree all over the world use crate training to their dog's advantage. It is not cruel and really can help make things clear to the dog. Putting a dog in a living situation where one is unhappy with their behavior and not using all the tools available to help them is not really uncruel to them.

I think the crate will make the most sense to the dog. It even worked for mine who had learned to go in his crate. The trick is not to miss the mistakes by having not taken the dog out of the crate and to the yard for lots of opportunity. It sounds like you are used to that part, so that is great. Letting the dog run loose in the house prior to crate training is a recipe I have never had success with.


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## WVGSD (Nov 28, 2006)

*At the end of my rope - housetraining*

Do you have a fenced yard for Juta? The reason that I ask is that, if you do, you might want to consider a storm door that has a doggy door already built in to it. My husband and I have installed two of these on the outer doors of our home and the dogs love them. When the weather is nice, they can come and go as they like to go to the bathrorom in the yard and play or just hang out. 

I just adopted a rescued adult GSD two weeks ago and he was never ever inside a home before. We are having the same challenges that you are and I know your sense of frustration as I rescue and often deal with dogs that were never in a home before. 

One thing that I do to help my rescued dogs learn to love their crates is to make them eat in the crate. I place their food at the back of the crate and they have to walk in to eat. At first, the door is open and, then as they relax, I close the door for a short time. It takes time, but they learn that they can eat in their cate, sleep in the crate and have toys in the crate. I also train them to the words "kennel up" and they are always given a treat when I put them in their crates. 

Thank you for having the patience to work with her and to keep trying.

Shannon


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## Shelbydoo (Jan 3, 2011)

I didn't read everyone's postings so this may be repetative. 
My GS has been on a low dosage of Proin. I ♥ that stuff!! If she wasn't on it, I'd always be cleaning up pee. The vet explained the problem a long time ago, something to do with the sphincter (sp?). Ever since she's been on it, we've had no problems. It's pretty cheap. She gets 1 pill a day crushed up in her food.
Hope that helps!


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

well she has had no accidents so far, but picked up a new habit. She is now getting in the cat litterbox and "scoobie snacks" what's up with that?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ahhhh...kitty treats....just keep the cat box clean so there isn't any to get. That's the only solution I came up with short of having it in a room they couldn't access but that cat can, which isn't possible in my house.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Kitty Almond Rocca!! Dogs just can't resist it!!! You might have to put the litter box in an area where she can't get at it. That is about the only reliable way to keep them out of it. 

A friend of mine has the litter box in one of those wire dog kennels that come with a side door. She has the crate with the side door open and facing up. The cats can easily get in and out, but the dogs can't.

And congrats on the house-breaking improvements! That is good news!


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

ok so today I let her have the roam of the house, I heard her play with the cat, and well she peed again in the kitchen,,,,????


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh no, just when it was going well. Maybe it's excitement. I love her name by the way, I'm saving it for the future.


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## RudeDogTraining (Jan 7, 2011)

*Designated Feeding Times?*

Does the dog have full access to food/water all throughout the day? Although I am totally for a dog always having access to fresh, clean water, with house training, it has to be monitored. Monitoring her eating/drinking habits can help you predict when she has to go. And as far as praising her for elimination in the correct spot vs correction for elimination in the incorrect spot, maybe you should up the ante with praise. Make going to the bathroom outside the best experience in the world with the tastiest treats, lots of petting and verbal praise...because sometimes, just a "good girl" with a pat on the back might not be enough motivation for her. She's lived just about half her life in a kennel, so she's used to going wherever whenever! It will take some patience and consistency, but this could be fixed. I'm not saying that it 100% CAN be, just because I don't know if you have tried these suggestions, and also the dog could be more severe than what I picture. As far as correcting for elimination in the incorrect spot, most of the time (but not all the time), that teaches the dog to not go to the bathroom in front of you. If the dog gets in trouble for eliminating on the rug either while doing it, then it enforces the fact of "I get in trouble when mom is around", instead of catching her in the act of her getting ready to eliminate then distracting her and redirecting her outside. (like if she starts to actively sniff not too long after she's drank some water) Sorry if I went off on a tangent, but let me know how things go


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Juta said:


> well she spend last night in the crate, *tonite we went out for dinner and crated her again.Came home , took her out and now she doe not want to go in the crate. Do not want to force her, somehow I think she will be fine*. Another thing that may have freaked her out was my son came home from college, and fed her a bunch of "begging strips" I figured that she probably ate a bunch of them and drank a lot.... hence the peeing.
> as for the bells, she got the idea that I will let her out if she ring, but not for peeing, just to go out.


If human beings did not attribute human thoughts and emotions onto canines as they do, they probably would not be very successful pets.

If human beings do not stop attributing human thoughts and emotions onto canines, they can do real damage.

I am afraid you aversion to the whole concept of crating the dog is seeping through to the dog. And I think you are doing a great job with her. But you have to work on you. You are going to have to do things very matter-of-factly with her even if you FEEL like it is horrible, mean, unfair, etc. 

By letting your overall feelings about what is happening penetrate through your voice or body language, the dog is thinking something bad is going on. So you are making the dog anxious. It is not so much the dog does not like the crate, the dog is certainly not thinking that if she goes into it, she will be stuck there for hours. They do not think that way. She is reading you. You are feeling guilty that you crated her to do something for yourself and now you need to crate her again. But she is thinking something bad is happening. 

When your kid has a problem with the teacher, do you commiserate with the kid? Even if you agree with him? Do you say, what a HAG!???

When your kid does not want to go to school, do you just let him stay home because he does not want to go?

I am guessing not on both counts. 

You may think, giving the kid a zero for forgetting his name, that is pretty harsh, what a hag, but you tell your kid to be more careful next time. Guess what, he will be. 

You tell your kid that if he doesn't get his butt out of bed and dressed, he will go to school in his underwear, but he WILL be there. 

We are not tough with kids because we are mean ogres, but because we love and care for them. 

Crate this dog because you love her and care for her. And tone down your body language in the meantime.


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## Veronica1 (Jun 22, 2010)

You might try offering a treat when you're putting her in the crate. We buy puppy size biscuits for this very thing. Panzer gets one when he goes in the crate and one more just as I'm going out the door. He usually doesn't even have to be told to get in his crate anymore - as soon as he sees me get the biscuit, he hightails it to the crate.

I used to feel badly about crates like you do. We did not crate our last dog. I cannot tell you how many shoes, belts, books, socks, underwear, etc etc he ate or destroyed. Crating is a much safer option. I doubt we would have been as successful with our GSD as we have been without the crate. Using the crate is setting your dog up for success. Not using it is offering the opportunity to fail.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

well keep your fingers crossed,looking at a property where it will be no problem putting a doggie door in and giving her a fenced in run..
Besides I can deal with peeing in the kitchen once every 10 days. Hey accidents happen...


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Bless you for your patience and understanding!


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

Nah, it is just frustrating to have a dog, who has the potential to be a super dog, and have trouble with little things. so far she out witted me.....not for long:hug:
she is just wonderful otherwise, off course she is real timid, real unusual for a GSD. If we can get the new house, I can build it to accomodate her and maybe new puppy, so she has a friend ( she does not care too much for the cat....


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Sounds like the new place might be the answer


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

Veronica said:


> You might try offering a treat when you're putting her in the crate. We buy puppy size biscuits for this very thing. Panzer gets one when he goes in the crate and one more just as I'm going out the door. He usually doesn't even have to be told to get in his crate anymore - as soon as he sees me get the biscuit, he hightails it to the crate.
> 
> I used to feel badly about crates like you do. We did not crate our last dog. I cannot tell you how many shoes, belts, books, socks, underwear, etc etc he ate or destroyed. Crating is a much safer option. I doubt we would have been as successful with our GSD as we have been without the crate. Using the crate is setting your dog up for success. Not using it is offering the opportunity to fail.


she is weird about treats, for example, when I play frisbee with her she will not take a treat, because she is more interested in me trowing the frisbee. She is not food driven??


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Zoe doesn't want treats when we train outdoors...she wants to play fetch so that is her reward. Indoors she is quite food driven so environment plays a huge role here. Plus when they are running after a Frisbee they are winded and eating is just no fun when your all amped up


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Juta,
hold off on the idea of a puppy for a while. Solve the house soiling issue with this one or the pup will pick up on it and add to the problem. From your posts you are something of a novice with shepherds. (Timid isn't all that unusual in a shepherd, being more interested in a toy than a treat isn't unusual.) This dog has some things to show you before you add a pup. Back to the house soiling, if all else fails (maybe I mentioned this before) doggie diapers for inside the house works well for urine. It may also discourage her from relieving herself. Piddle pads may give her a target that you could then work on slowly moving outdoors.
I don't know if anyone has acknowledged it, but you are right that her chances if she is returned to the shelter are pretty slim.


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## Juta (Mar 13, 2010)

middleofnowhere said:


> Juta,
> hold off on the idea of a puppy for a while. Solve the house soiling issue with this one or the pup will pick up on it and add to the problem. From your posts you are something of a novice with shepherds. (Timid isn't all that unusual in a shepherd, being more interested in a toy than a treat isn't unusual.) This dog has some things to show you before you add a pup. Back to the house soiling, if all else fails (maybe I mentioned this before) doggie diapers for inside the house works well for urine. It may also discourage her from relieving herself. Piddle pads may give her a target that you could then work on slowly moving outdoors.
> I don't know if anyone has acknowledged it, but you are right that her chances if she is returned to the shelter are pretty slim.


While one year with her does qualify me as a novice, a GSD is still a dog, and I managed to house train a miniature dachshund. and had real success with my labs. 
I do have to report tho that she has not peed in the house for a week now, and pooping was never a problem. I think we just about there  
On the other hand thank you for all of you who have given me good ideas.


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