# Watcher Engel K-9 - anyone heard of them?



## Mike69 (Jun 30, 2009)

Anybody ever heard of this breeder? They are near me in connecticut, so I figured I'd ask.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

From what i could see, on their website. I like them. They seem to have very nice dogs and I love their donation program. I do like their health guarantee and that it is three years long. That way you can have your dogs OFA'ed and it's still included. I've seen some breeders in the US who only have a one year guarantee and that way, once the dog is ready to be OFA'ed the guarantee is literally worthless since it has already expired.


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## Mike69 (Jun 30, 2009)

I hate to drag this up again - but I don't see any titles on those females and wonder how much they get worked and how well the breeder knows their temperaments. I realize titles are not the end all be all, but what is to stop someone like me from purchasing some females from some welll known breeders, and then just breeding them indiscriminantly (sp.?) to some of today's most popular stud dogs without giving much thought to whether they are an appropriate match? I'm not saying they do that, but how can someone otherwise be sure of the quality of the females being bred to those stud dogs? I mean, researching breeders is quite confusing. And how am I supposed to figure out which breeders breed those hardcore over-the-top, have to be kennelled when not working, high strung nutso dogs? And what about those DDR breeders that import Sch titled dogs, offer the offspring for sale, but don't work or title their own dogs?

(Chris Wild and Angie, if you are reading this - from what I've heard about you two, and from what you've written in various threads, I have a lot of respect for you and your breeding programs. So, even though I live in CT, you both might be getting a calls from me one of these days).


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, to be honest, the sires owner always has a say and should look into the bitch before he accepts an offer but as with everything else, money rules the world. 

From the pedigrees alone I can see that they do have nice working dogs. There is a youtube protection video of Chuna when she was a year old. I read on here that it's common that the bitches only have a BH or maybe the SchH1. 

The sires are all titled and well known. Just from the combinations of the dogs, I do believe that they know what they do, however I could always be wrong.
They put very little information on the website. If you want to know more about their dogs and what they do, why don't you simply call or e-mail them?
If she's really been involved with Schutzhund, SAR and Herding for 25+ years ... that should answer your question right there.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike69,
You are right in that many people buy TITLED females and breed them indiscriminately to popular studs. In either case if you don't know the dogs, the breeder, or someone to help you, you can't be sure.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

two females domestically bred and probably not titled....looks like they have ties to van den Heuvel....who regularly breeds untitled females. Quick glance at pedigrees, and knowing some connections within those - not litters I would send an average pet buyer to look at....

Talked to them (v d Heuvel) about a stud service. Sure - they would LOVE to bred Csabre! I should bring her, they would do the breeding and return her after THEY whelped and raised the litter - they got Pick female - and would give me "my share" of the rest of the litter....so maybe vd H is actually doing these breedings....

Lee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Looks like nice dogs, I haven't heard of them, but that doesn't mean anything I'm more on the shoreline.

Vd H is now in Newtown CT, so could be as Lee said..

It's tough for newbies especially, to know who to go to. I don't think you could go wrong with chris or angie even tho your not that close to them..


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> Sure - they would LOVE to bred Csabre! I should bring her, they would do the breeding and return her after THEY whelped and raised the litter - they got Pick female - and would give me "my share" of the rest of the litter.... Lee


 Can't believe someone would actually agree to such a proposal to do business together.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

LOL LOL LOL I was absolutely flabbergasted at the whole idea....like I would just leave Csabre with strangers in a KENNEL! no couch, no TV, no kittys to think evil thoughts at! LOL she is like my kid! Not just a dog! But females in commercial kennels live in kennels and make puppies....so we will look elsewhere for a daddy!

Lee


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

There are a lot of other breeders out there without websites too. Some are sold by word of mouth. And coming here, you can find out about them, or to clubs. Some people will breed a female with prelims and no title to see if she has what it takes to be a mom. Some of those people really know what they are doing. Going on bloodlines too. Females are worked for their BH and then bred. They are being trained so you will know what qualities they have. It is frustrating for a bitch owner to spend lots of time training, only to have your female in standing heat at trial day and not do her best. Schutzhund trials are not that often and close by. So the males can go to any trial at any time. Your female may be nursing a litter. Now you have to brush up on training in order to get her trial ready again. So I can understand why a male would have more titles than a female, or maybe breeding an untitled female once to see if she is up to par as a brood bitch. But NOT continuing to breed that untitled female repeatedly with no title. 

I bred my bitch this time around to an untitled male. He was abused by a so called trainer, and basically ruined for trials. Does that mean he cant sire a litter? His temperament and bloodlines are great, passes what he offers on to his progeny. Great structure, pigment, drives. I guess what I am saying is you have to look at the whole picture. My bitch is not titled in Schutzhund, but she passes that natural full grip on to her pups.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> two females domestically bred and probably not titled....looks like they have ties to van den Heuvel....who regularly breeds untitled females. Quick glance at pedigrees, and knowing some connections within those - not litters I would send an average pet buyer to look at....
> 
> Talked to them (v d Heuvel) about a stud service. Sure - they would LOVE to bred Csabre! I should bring her, they would do the breeding and return her after THEY whelped and raised the litter - they got Pick female - and would give me "my share" of the rest of the litter....so maybe vd H is actually doing these breedings....
> 
> Lee


Is actually a pretty common practice in Germany. The litter would be in their name, you'd literally "rent" the bitch out and they have the litter, you either get to pick a puppy or get the money, they keep the rest of the litter. It's called "Zuchtmiete"


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Mrs.K said:


> Is actually a pretty common practice in Germany. The litter would be in their name, you'd literally "rent" the bitch out and they have the litter, you either get to pick a puppy or get the money, they keep the rest of the litter. It's called "Zuchtmiete"


 
It is called a lease here. But this was not a lease. They will not let you buy a stud service to their males, period. If you want a pup from their male and your own bitch, it is their litter. No thanks!!!

Lee


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> It is called a lease here. But this was not a lease. They will not let you buy a stud service to their males, period. If you want a pup from their male and your own bitch, it is their litter. No thanks!!!
> 
> Lee


That is ridiculous. I absolutely agree with you. I would not want that either. Wow... getting a trained bitch for free, possibly titled, don't have to pay for the training or put the money into the vet... that is a very cheap litter and once the litter is gone the bitch goes back to the owner and they have space for a new one.. I guess it's one way to get titled bitches that are not even theirs to begin with... :help:


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> LOL LOL LOL I was absolutely flabbergasted at the whole idea....like I would just leave Csabre with strangers in a KENNEL! no couch, no TV, no kittys to think evil thoughts at!


Every dog deserves a home...Not simply food, shelter, health care & exercise. A REAL home where s/he is loved, appreciated & a full family member. Lee, you clearly provide that for both your kits & your pups.


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## Mike69 (Jun 30, 2009)

Thanks, all. I appreciate the input.


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## Joelucy (Dec 28, 2021)

I just lost the Shepard purchased from Carol Hudson and she doesn’t appear to be actively breeding Shepard’s. Did anyone buy the business? Anyone know of reputable breeders
Of pure black German Shepard’s ?


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

Joelucy said:


> I just lost the Shepard purchased from Carol Hudson and she doesn’t appear to be actively breeding Shepard’s. Did anyone buy the business? Anyone know of reputable breeders
> Of pure black German Shepard’s ?


Where are you located? What temperment are you looking for? What do you do with your GSD?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Joelucy said:


> I just lost the Shepard purchased from Carol Hudson and she doesn’t appear to be actively breeding Shepard’s. Did anyone buy the business? Anyone know of reputable breeders
> Of pure black German Shepard’s ?


ShepHERD, sorry it’s a thing with me.


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## Joelucy (Dec 28, 2021)

drparker151 said:


> Where are you located? What temperment are you looking for? What do you do with your GSD?


North granby CT. Temperament devoted to family members, intelligent, alert and friendly.
I have owned three GSD two from a breeder in Ma which supplied Ma State Police. All of my dogs were obedience trained and protected the home. My most recent Shepard seemed to understand our conversations.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Joelucy said:


> North granby CT. Temperament devoted to family members, intelligent, alert and friendly.
> I have owned three GSD two from a breeder in Ma which supplied Ma State Police. All of my dogs were obedience trained and protected the home. My most recent Shepard seemed to understand our conversations.


You’re better off starting your own thread. On a basic level, the amount of drive, energy level, and purpose you want the dog for can help for a good recommendation. Different peoples taste could lead to different recommendations. For instance, the type of dog I like might end up being a nightmare for you.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

Joelucy said:


> I just lost the Shepard purchased from Carol Hudson and she doesn’t appear to be actively breeding Shepard’s. Did anyone buy the business? Anyone know of reputable breeders
> Of pure black German Shepard’s ?


Sent PM!


Mike69 said:


> Anybody ever heard of this breeder? They are near me in connecticut, so I figured I'd ask.





Joelucy said:


> I just lost the Shepard purchased from Carol Hudson and she doesn’t appear to be actively breeding Shepard’s. Did anyone buy the business? Anyone know of reputable breeders
> Of pure black German Shepard’s ?


Sent PM.


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## rotdocpa1 (Mar 19, 2018)

Anton and Claudia Paluch are in Conn. You can look on facebook for them. They have mostly working line but I am sure could direct you to easier showlines if needed also.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

rotdocpa1 said:


> Anton and Claudia Paluch are in Conn. You can look on facebook for them. They have mostly working line but I am sure could direct you to easier showlines if needed also.


Watcher Engel was a working line kennel.


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## Joelucy (Dec 28, 2021)

gsdsteve said:


> Watcher Engel was a working line kennel.


Thank you


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

Joelucy said:


> Thank you


Wondering if you ever got a pup. Sent you a PM earlier with several breeder referrals.


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## Joelucy (Dec 28, 2021)

I recently wrote to Anton Paluch and another breeder.


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