# GSD Attacked by Dalmatian



## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

Got my 6 month old approaching 2 weeks now. I do realize that I've lost a lot of "time" in terms of socializing Rocky. I've been doing a lot of introductions to people, places, different surfaces, meeting dogs etc.

This is her baby photo from the breeder:










Yesterday, I saw a friendly look male adult Dalmatian, he was unleashed and seems to have just be let out of his house. I know Dalmatians to be a bit cooky, so we walked in their general direction.










I proceeded to encourage a friendly meet up, my leash was loose and I was very encouraging to both of them. The Dalmatian though did not have good intentions and proceeded to growl, I then tried to separate them, the Dalmatian then started to become dominant and started to attack, Rocky tried to fight back and show some teeth but just for a second or two, but afterwards he was on the ground surrendering.



















I stepped in and Rocky started to hide behind me, I did my best CM impression and started to Pssst the dalmatian away. He lunged again and I kicked him off. He lunged again, so I had no choice but to take out my telescopic baton:









I was getting worked up now and told myself, if this guy lunges again, I swear a family is going to be in mourning for a dead pet dalmatian.

The Dalmatian then saw that I was going to go shaolin on it and started to back away. Rocky and I took 3-5 steps forward to show him who's boss and we walked away in "victory"

I wanted to consult the board and ask if I did the correct thing. Also I wanted to ask, my impression of GSDs were fearless, is mine just being a pup and I'm asking too much of it at this point. Is he going to be a "boss" eventually and let that Dalmatian know who's boss?

I guess my question is, is courage in the genes or can I develop it out of my Rocky.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

So you want Rocky to exhibit the same behavior as the Dalmatian..correct?

SuperG


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm struggling to determine if you're serious and very unfamiliar with how to interact with and train dogs, or if this post was an enormous effort made on the part of a troll. 

In the case of the former.... 

If you see an off leash dog that is acting in an unfriendly manner do not take your pup towards it. At 6 months he still needs you protect him. And no matter what his age is in the future, for your dog's and your own safety do not force an approach with an unknown and unfriendly dog, especially off leash. 

Otherwise, if your dog is of a more submissive nature then there's no guaranteed way to make him dominant. You can do confidence building exercises, but chances are if he's a beta dog he'll always prefer to allow another dog to take charge. And there's nothing wrong with that. Putting your dog in situations as a pup where he is getting beat up by other dogs will do nothing but cause him to fear other dogs more. 

If you are genuine in your inquiry, please take a significant amount of time to do A LOT of research on this forum and read up much more on GSDs and their behavior, genetics, training, and care.


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

Okay. Wow. Give me a minute.

So you saw a dog that A) you didn't know, B) your dog was not familiar with, C) you were not familiar with, and D) WAS OFF ITS LEASH and you decide to APPROACH it? That was your first mistake there. There is no defensible reason for you to ever put yourself or your dog in potential harm by approaching a dog that you DO NOT KNOW, no matter how "friendly" looking it is. 

This entire situation of yours could have been solved by recognizing that the dog was both unfamiliar, off-leash, and from the sounds of your story, not under direct control by any other person. And even if it was under the control of another person, you should always ASK first before using their dog as a socialization exercise.

Furthermore, your puppy did exactly what I would expect any young puppy in a relatively new environment to do. It finds itself in an encounter faced with what seems to be an aggressive display from an older dog. To avoid severe bodily harm, he showed appeasement behavior (rolling over, putting himself lower than the other dog) to try to defuse the other dog's aggression and avoid injury or attack.

Finally, while the baton is a decent measure of defense if the dog decides to attack you, walking forward into a dog that is starting to back down is only putting further tension on that dog and encouraging it to pop back and bite the bejeezus out of you. Honestly, I feel like you had a huge stroke of dumb luck that the dalmation didn't take your steps forward to "show it who's boss" as a further challenge or aggressive movement. Or at least not enough of one to bite you like he was probably going to do otherwise.

As far as protection instinct in Shepherds, there are others who are more experienced in this than I am. My last shepherd had epilepsy, and my current is my first schutzhund bloodline shepherd and he has not matured yet. If they are in any way similar to rottweilers in terms of protection it is something that MAY develop in maturity, but not by putting the dog in situations where it feels like it has no control. 

PLEASE manage your dog's situation more carefully. Especially if it is new to you, you are still building a relationship with your dog and you don't want to teach it that you can't keep it safe. Interactions with other dogs should be CONTROLLED at BOTH ends of the interaction, especially with dogs that you do not know.


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperG said:


> So you want Rocky to exhibit the same behavior as the Dalmatian..correct?
> 
> SuperG


The Dalmatian was a jerk! Absolutely NOT.

I want Rocky to be *gentleman*. Well socialized, confident, loyal, courageous and all that jazz. All the good things that I've read so much about the GSD that led me to bring this dog into my family's life.

However, when a gentleman is a disrespected, he should also know when to smack jerks in the face and give them what they deserve.

My question to all the more experienced owner is if these GSDs will develop courage and confidence through time. I'm sure it will but will be a dramatic evolution, or will genes be the more dramatic effect?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html ---- read this thread regarding socialization

Your pup is 6 months old - a puppy - *if* he has protective instincts, it will begin to appear in another 6 months or so. At this time, it is his job to be a puppy, your job is to protect him from strange off leash dogs. 

For safer exposure to other dogs, join a training class or a local club. You want controlled meetings with stable dogs for your pup.


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## Charlie W (Feb 12, 2013)

I think that to expect a 6 month old pup to stand up to an adult dog is expecting too much. Your dog looks to you to protect him, he is too young to have the confidence to be fearless.

I also have some experience with Dalmatians and I think the film 101 Dalmatians has a lot to answer for! They are powerful dogs that can be aggressive without socialization, and a lot of owners get their sweet puppies without realizing this about the breed. I have had a male Dalmatian, he was friendly with people he knew, but he was a much more fearsome guard dog than the Doberman and the GSD I have now, and God help ANY dog that tried to take him on. My dal wore a muzzle when he was off the lead, partly because children who had seen the Disney films would run up to him and be all over him, he never bit one, but it made me nervous and I was not prepared to take any chances with him...Some parents out there need educating, but that's a whole different subject!

As for whether you did the right thing, I am thankful to have never been in your position, and it sounds as though you are lucky that neither you or either dog was hurt...


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

MeAko said:


> However, when a gentleman is a disrespected, he should also know when to smack jerks in the face and give them what they deserve.


If an older man walks up to a child on the street and starts screaming at the child, I don't expect the child to smack the man in the face and show him what's what. I expect an adult to step in and properly manage the situation.


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

sechattin said:


> PLEASE manage your dog's situation more carefully. Especially if it is new to you, you are still building a relationship with your dog and you don't want to teach it that you can't keep it safe. Interactions with other dogs should be CONTROLLED at BOTH ends of the interaction, especially with dogs that you do not know.


Point very well taken. I actually did NOT approach the Dalmatian, we were walking and I continued in that direction. I guess the most prudent approach would have been to walk the other direction. 

A misstep of mine that won't be repeated, thank you for your positive and encouraging post. 

Am willing to learn, I have researched a lot, apparently not enough.


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

Twyla said:


> At this time, it is his job to be a puppy, your job is to protect him from strange off leash dogs.
> 
> For safer exposure to other dogs, join a training class or a local club. You want controlled meetings with stable dogs for your pup.


This! Absolutely! The only way you can make sure your dog turns into a gentleman is to do lots of training with him. Start with basic obedience and work your way up from there. A well trained dog is the only dog that can be expected to act appropriately in public. The Dalmatian is likely the pet of someone who didn't take time to train their dog. 

For now, protect your pup and get started on obedience training.


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

sechattin said:


> If an older man walks up to a child on the street and starts screaming at the child, I don't expect the child to smack the man in the face and show him what's what. I expect an adult to step in and properly manage the situation.


Gotcha, Rocky is my first big dog. I guess because of his size, I need to be reminded that he's a baby. I was absolutely my fault that we got into that mess. 



Charlie W said:


> I think that to expect a 6 month old pup to stand up to an adult dog is expecting too much. Your dog looks to you to protect him, he is too young to have the confidence to be fearless.
> 
> I also have some experience with Dalmatians and I think the film 101 Dalmatians has a lot to answer for! They are powerful dogs that can be aggressive without socialization, and a lot of owners get their sweet puppies without realizing this about the breed. I have had a male Dalmatian, he was friendly with people he knew, but he was a much more fearsome guard dog than the Doberman and the GSD I have now, and God help ANY dog that tried to take him on. My dal wore a muzzle when he was off the lead, partly because children who had seen the Disney films would run up to him and be all over him, he never bit one, but it made me nervous and I was not prepared to take any chances with him...Some parents out there need educating, but that's a whole different subject!
> 
> As for whether you did the right thing, I am thankful to have never been in your position, and it sounds as though you are lucky that neither you or either dog was hurt...


I actually did have a Dalmatian (sorta) in the past life, he was the sweetest thing though...so, my wrong ideas were not from the movie (since I haven't watched it) but from my old limited experience.



Twyla said:


> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-rethinking-popular-early-socialization.html ---- read this thread regarding socialization
> 
> Your pup is 6 months old - a puppy - *if* he has protective instincts, it will begin to appear in another 6 months or so. At this time, it is his job to be a puppy, your job is to protect him from strange off leash dogs.
> 
> For safer exposure to other dogs, join a training class or a local club. You want controlled meetings with stable dogs for your pup.


Thanks for the link, will read up on that. What I have been doing everyday was to approach leashed dogs at the park and around the village, ask for permission from the guardian to approach, they normally hesitate since I have a big dog, but allow them after I assure him that he's "nice".

It's been working well so far, but I need to balance my need to "catch up" in my socialization with safe and effective methods of doing so.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

MeAko said:


> However, when a gentleman is a disrespected, he should also know when to smack jerks in the face and give them what they deserve.



So you want your dog to take on your perspective of life, right out of the chute....interesting.

I have a novel idea....dogs and humans are quite different at times...... marching a younger inexperienced dog ( not a "gentleman" yet ) into what you just did....just set your dog back more than you will understand and appreciate.....horrible acclimation/introduction for your dog...in my opinion...you could not have done it more improperly if you tried.

Best of luck,

SuperG


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

Kahrg4 said:


> For now, protect your pup and get started on obedience training.


For the first week that I got him, it was just intense bonding, engagement and lots of love love love.

This morning, I started clicker training and we got him fluently doing sits. Tomorrow, will be downs and stays...thanks for your inputs.


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

SuperG said:


> So you want your dog to take on your perspective of life, right out of the chute....interesting.
> 
> I have a novel idea....dogs and humans are quite different at times...... marching a younger inexperienced dog ( not a "gentleman" yet ) into what you just did....just set your dog back more than you will understand and appreciate.....horrible acclimation/introduction for your dog...in my opinion...you could not have done it more improperly if you tried.
> 
> ...


Thank you sir. I hope you treat your dog better than people making honest mistakes in the internet. What's your training method, kicking us down and spitting at us and tell us what a worthless piece of junk we are? 

Tell me how effective that has worked so far, I'm eager to learn.

My normal experience in internet fora has been quite positive and encouraging, people willing to learn and teach each other without being judgmental, I guess this site might be a bit different.

Were you an instant dog expert and a "SUPERowner" instantly? Tell me did you not go through a newbie phase where you learned and experienced failures, hmmm, maybe not, maybe I'm just different that way.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

My training method is simple.....a young pup having a bad experience is the last thing I want while the pup is still malleable and inexperienced. Once a younger dog has an experience of a certain magnitude of negativity, you are now fighting an uphill battle...plain and simple. As others have stated...an inexperienced pup needs the protection of it's supposed "leader" and a well founded introduction and guidance through the maturing process. Personally, I would rather "tone" overzealous behavior down than try and create "confident" behavior which has been squashed via a negative experience. 

Your reaction to my comments has nothing to do with the situation at hand....I posted a reply...my reply is as serious as the nature of the situation you described....I only care about the dog....does that make sense ??

SuperG


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

i think the thing that irked people isnt what you did but your way of thinking. of wanting your dog to be a "boss" and put other dogs in their place. everyone makes mistakes except super g. i remember letting two dogs run up and roll my dog and was all over him. my pup literally pee'd all over himself. hindsight is always 20/20


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## sechattin (Nov 13, 2013)

MeAko,
While maybe not as positive as you were looking for, I can assure you that SuperG is only trying to give you sound advice. Socialization is a critical portion of puppyhood and any unpleasant tones you may have read into his post most likely come from the fact that many of us recognize that the German Shepherd is not a beginner dog, nor a responsibility to be taken lightly, therefore we tend to hope that people who are owning them, especially for the first time do some serious research, not only into the traits and physical and mental requirements of the breed, but also try to get a good understanding of important aspects of dog raising such as socialization. Any flak you may receive on this thread probably comes from the fact that many of the decisions in this situation were rookie mistakes with any dog breed. But that's also exactly what they are - mistakes, mistakes that can be learned from. So now you can learn from them, do a lot of research, and grow in your knowledge and experience to the benefit of your dog.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> everyone makes mistakes except super g.



No...I remember this one time when I was wrong....I thought I was incorrect but actually I was right....

SuperG


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

boomer11 said:


> i think the thing that irked people isnt what you did but your way of thinking. of wanting your dog to be a "boss" and put other dogs in their place. everyone makes mistakes except super g. i remember letting two dogs run up and roll my dog and was all over him. my pup literally pee'd all over himself. hindsight is always 20/20


Yes, I realize also that, that's a misplaced and childish thinking, I apologize to the board for thinking that way and will correct it going forward. *taking notes*

Am also devouring the link that Twyla...gave very enlightening. I need to relax a bit on my desire to catch up on the socialization aspect. Need to do it right, quality over quantity.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> everyone makes mistakes except super g.


Okay...in all seriousness...the reason I react to this situation with such enthusiasm is because of a mistake I had to deal with regarding my first shepherd....not passing the buck here either....my wife was all hyped to take our pup to the dog park for the first time....I knew little about dog parks and suggested we should educate ourselves....my wife was rather persuasive and I lulled myself into believing that the DP most likely was an okay place...I mean what the heck...it is called a dog park, right ? Well, after my 4-5 month old pup got chased down and rolled by three large dogs ( just wanting to play ), I'll bet it took an additional 4-5 months to get the dog's confidence back and I am bit suspect, her confidence around other dogs never matured into what it should have, had it not been for that one experience. The upside of this negative experience was the dog did not become fearful aggressive which would have been worse than the dog becoming a bit standoffish and a loner amongst other groups of dogs.
This one lesson taught me all I needed to know about exposing a pup to the world and I take full responsibility.

SuperG


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am most disturbed about the fact that you put not only your dog but the other dog in a bad position. Then you would have gone as far as killing the other dog because he attacked? Dalmatians got the drive, energy, and stamina to hold there own. They aren't cooky, they are a muscular strong breed that IMO aren't to far behind GSD's when it comes to intensity. I just hope you learned a lesson about approaching strange dogs, because that dog could have seriously hurt your dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WOW! Well I was just called a meanie on the Boxer board for suggesting to people that they should protect their dog! Well you clearly did that! But it kinda sounds like you also put yourself and your in a bad spot?

Think I have a more balanced approach: This is not directed at you! It's what I did and my conclusions!*

Dog trainers and behaviorists love pet stores and dog park dogs, that's where most of there business comes from.

Next batch is the early socialization folks, that want to cram people into their dogs faces. Right dog with sound nerves, no problem! Wrong dog same approach...the dog is now scared of certain (whoever) people or floppy hats or wheel chairs, etc,etc. This approach with the wrong dog and you can create a fearful and submissive dogie.

The approach I chose was, I protected my dog, he did not have to chose who's good and who is bad or deal with "I though my dog was friendly folks or strange dogs. He learned to view people and other dogs as furniture, He understand what normal human interaction looks like.

He's safe in public and can be around other dogs without loosing it. He's not a dog park dog. Not worth the hassle for me.

Leerburg | Who Pets Your Puppy or Dog
Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea

And here:rethinking "popular" early socialization

No brilliant insight on my part. I had a people aggressive young dog. It was my believe that cramming a bunch of people in his face wasn't the answer? In my case with my dog I was right.*

Not saying your planned approach is wrong, just showing their is another approach to having a happy well adjusted dog!*


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Okay...in all seriousness...the reason I react to this situation with such enthusiasm is because of a mistake I had to deal with regarding my first shepherd....not passing the buck here either....my wife was all hyped to take our pup to the dog park for the first time....I knew little about dog parks and suggested we should educate ourselves....my wife was rather persuasive and I lulled myself into believing that the DP most likely was an okay place...I mean what the heck...it is called a dog park, right ? Well, after my 4-5 month old pup got chased down and rolled by three large dogs ( just wanting to play ), I'll bet it took an additional 4-5 months to get the dog's confidence back and I am bit suspect, her confidence around other dogs never matured into what it should have, had it not been for that one experience. The upside of this negative experience was the dog did not become fearful aggressive which would have been worse than the dog becoming a bit standoffish and a loner amongst other groups of dogs.
> This one lesson taught me all I needed to know about exposing a pup to the world and I take full responsibility.
> 
> SuperG


Yes, many of us have learned lessons the hard way! I tend to think most of the heat comes from folks that have "seen that before!"

Guest the" E collar" issit between education and alienation. I get zapped a lot more on the Boxer Board myself! Those can be some sensitive folks!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I am most disturbed about the fact that you put not only your dog but the other dog in a bad position. Then you would have gone as far as killing the other dog because he attacked? Dalmatians got the drive, energy, and stamina to hold there own. They aren't cooky, they are a muscular strong breed that IMO aren't to far behind GSD's when it comes to intensity. I just hope you learned a lesson about approaching strange dogs, because that dog could have seriously hurt your dog.


:thumbup:

A well bred Dalmatian is not cooky but some Dals from bybs are aggressive, they are very strong and very muscular. My 8 month old male Dal puppy is 35 pounds less than my male GSD and he definitely holds his own against him. They are a guarding breed.


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## MeAko (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks to all the positive and encouraging posts. Just like teaching bite inhibition, Socialization as it turns out is a lot more tricky than just letting him meet and greet as many people/animals and situations as possible. 

I'm gonna do real good with Rocky guys, will learn solidly from this and move on. Here's him with my 3 year old sharing a good laugh


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

MeAko said:


> Thanks to all the positive and encouraging posts. Just like teaching bite inhibition, Socialization as it turns out is a lot more tricky than just letting him meet and greet as many people/animals and situations as possible.
> 
> I'm gonna do real good with Rocky guys, will learn solidly from this and move on. Here's him with my 3 year old sharing a good laugh


They look so cute together.

Since there is a 3 yr old involved as well - here is another page you want to dig into  Family Paws-New parent classes dog and baby


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Nice pic of the pup and your child.....it will be a wonderful relationship as the two grow up together...best of buddies looking out for each other.

One thought and I apologize if you feel like I am piling on but for the welfare of the dog and those that love him....I noticed a choker on him in the picture... perhaps you just finished a training session or walk and that is why it is on or the dog is always monitored when it is on. If not, leaving an unrestricted choke collar on any dog can end up resulting in a nightmare...if the tag end were to ever get caught on anything, such as a high spot on a fence if the dog is a jumper...it's a really bad day. I've always been a stickler about this ever since a friend's dog got the loose end of a choker wedged in between 2 pieces of wooden fencing, the dog survived luckily due to someone noticing the dog struggling in it's kennel. 

SuperG


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Chip18 said:


> WOW! Well I was just called a meanie on the Boxer board for suggesting to people that they should protect their dog!


So what do Boxer people think you should do? Let your dog get into a fight?


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> So what do Boxer people think you should do? Let your dog get into a fight?



Yes, 15 rounds...put the gloves on, ring the bell and go....that is why they are called "Boxers"....correct ???

SuperG


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## Oisin's Aoire (Jun 17, 2013)

SuperG said:


> I remember this one time when I was wrong....I thought I was incorrect but actually I was right....
> SuperG


My long pondering for the perfect phrase to put on a personalized shirt for my husband is officially over .


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

SuperG said:


> Nice pic of the pup and your child.....it will be a wonderful relationship as the two grow up together...best of buddies looking out for each other.
> 
> One thought and I apologize if you feel like I am piling on but for the welfare of the dog and those that love him....I noticed a choker on him in the picture... perhaps you just finished a training session or walk and that is why it is on or the dog is always monitored when it is on. If not, leaving an unrestricted choke collar on any dog can end up resulting in a nightmare...if the tag end were to ever get caught on anything, such as a high spot on a fence if the dog is a jumper...it's a really bad day. I've always been a stickler about this ever since a friend's dog got the loose end of a choker wedged in between 2 pieces of wooden fencing, the dog survived luckily due to someone noticing the dog struggling in it's kennel.
> 
> SuperG


Good catch!
These seem to be popular I never used one in the past but I did have dogs that could ditch collars at will. Proper use of any tool is always advised!
Martingale Collars - 2 Hounds Design


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> So what do Boxer people think you should do? Let your dog get into a fight?


OMG! I actually have no idea. One lady let her guy tussle with a 90lb Rottie that had gotten loose!

It worked out OK because that one dog was friendly! They sniffed noses, But by and large as a group they are clueless!

Every now and then they have a dog with big Dawg problems! One 3 yr old rescue had grabbed the 9 yr toy dog and was shaking it like a rag! She was told to institute training with a clicker!!! 

She disappeared from the board pretty sure the dog went back. Mostly let them work it out folks!:crazy:


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

superg said:


> yes, 15 rounds...put the gloves on, ring the bell and go....that is why they are called "boxers"....correct ???
> 
> Superg


lol


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