# Training for dog reactivity



## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi guys, I'm not sure if I've posted something similar about our situation, but I would like some advice from you guys...

We have a 11 months old GSD mix (male, not fixed), and when he was 2 months old, he got parvo and was the only one of his litter that survived. When we adopted him when he was 3 months old, he was very weak, skeletic, and couldn't take the vaccines coz he was weak. So he only took all the vaccines, recovered vitality and could finally go out for daily walks when he was 6 months old.

He was a bit afraid and hesitant when he met other dogs at the first time. At that time, he already met our parents' female min pin of 1 year old. He used to chase her, she used not to like and we have always interfered and stopped the play (at our home) so that it wouldn't result into a fight. But well, by time, they already play with each other without problem.
But back to other dogs... So he met 3 neighbor dogs that he came to like and play a lot. But with other dogs, he always hesitated at approaching them or being approached. By time, he gained a bit more confidence and tried to approach other dogs in a friendly way.

Once, he tried to follow a stray dog that didn't mind his approach, but corrected him with a growl and air snap when he was too insistent at following him. My dog didn't seem to be afraid, just stopped following him so insistently. I thought that it was good for him to learn not to be pushy.

But well, then there were a few events that were traumatizing. One of the neighbor dogs that wasn't aggressive with any dog ran towards him and slammed him while tried to bite him and growl at him (this dog had a muzzle). He was afraid and distancing from her but she was kind of aggressive and forward. We don't know why she did that.
Another dog of one of the neighbors, a small dog, that belongs to the owner of one of the dogs ours play with also got aggressive whenever he sees our dog. He would run towards our dog and bark a lot aggressively, while mine gets slightly scared.
Once, it even happened that both of these dogs ran towards him aggressively!
Also, another event I could remember was that a stray dog ran to us out of nowhere and barked a lot. I even thought of doing something to that dog, although I was afraid of making things worse. At that time, if I can remember well, my dog already knew how to defend himself by barking back.

Anyways, long story short... So our dog is now 11 months old... By time, he became so reactive to dogs that just by seeing them from some distance he would start barking. It escalates so much (if the distance shortens) that he would jump, pull the leash, bark and even try to grab the other dog if they come near. It doesn't matter if they are friendly or not. He would also be tense with tail up if he doesn't bark or grab another dog that approached. He gets very pushy with sniffing, and if the other dog distances (since no dog liked his lack of manners approach), he would run towards them.


We wanted to socialize him more, but unfortunately, there are no dog parks in this country. Also, we just don't know enough owners to aid us to train him out of reactivity. I wish that he could come to look forward to meet other dogs again, but I'm not sure if it's possible. He's happy with the dogs he knew, but not friendly with new dogs now.

We are thinking of taking him to a trainer, but here lies the question: what kind of trainer/methods is better, and what should I avoid? Personally, I do use both positive reinforcement and corrections in training, but I don't believe in harsh methods. I want him to learn to socialize with other dogs to learn to have a positive or at least neutral view of them, and not just "be quiet and deal with it". I believe that part of his reactivity is due to perceiving other dogs as threats, but then I'm not sure if this is also coz of him reaching maturity as an unneutered male.


So what do you think?? What kind of trainer/method is better for our case and what should I avoid?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Definitely a trainer, one experienced with GSD. I'd look for one that has a stable pack of her own, that would be willing to do one on one training to begin with and then later transition into small classes for more socialization once your pup learns manners and that all dogs aren't scary monsters.

Take a look at these links. You can begin these at home.

LAT
BAT
BAT Blog

When doing these exercises, remember to remain below your dog's threshold, if she reacts, he is over and you should move back a bit further. Continue working on his obedience. You want his recall, sit, stay and watch solid.

Neutering will probably be a good idea after beginning work with a trainer and discovering what behavior/fear you are working with. Sometimes it is better to have that done after training has progressed.


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## Jersey 2012 (May 24, 2012)

*jersey*

Looking for some advised. I have a ten week old GS puppy. Last night she was on her bed with a meatybone, when i went by her and put my hand down, she growled at me, i have some concerns, because i have 19 month old and a 4 year old. Any adivise would be great. On how to handle this situation. I live in an isloated community with no dog trainners.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Twyla said:


> Definitely a trainer, one experienced with GSD. I'd look for one that has a stable pack of her own, that would be willing to do one on one training to begin with and then later transition into small classes for more socialization once your pup learns manners and that all dogs aren't scary monsters.
> 
> Take a look at these links. You can begin these at home.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links.  I've heard of these already, but will take a better look at them.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Jersey 2012 said:


> Looking for some advised. I have a ten week old GS puppy. Last night she was on her bed with a meatybone, when i went by her and put my hand down, she growled at me, i have some concerns, because i have 19 month old and a 4 year old. Any adivise would be great. On how to handle this situation. I live in an isloated community with no dog trainners.


One very important rule that parents must know is that animals are irrational. You must not leave a child unsupervised with even the gentlest dog. Also, dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans.

For safety, never let them together when your dog has food or high value treats. Since I was a kid, I've always been taught not to approach dogs that are eating, and I think that all parents must make this clear with their kids.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't know if this dog will ever "accept" other dogs. Its tough to tell from a post but most times when you see a really reactive dog the best you can do for them is to make them ignore other dogs. You have to work on LAT and really keep their focus on you through obedience training and exercise. He is still young, so his obedience with distractions can't be expected to be too high, but that is what you're going to have to work on. With a dog like this, you should probably not worry about him meeting and having other dog friends, its just not necessary. He has you, he has other people, and that might be all he needs. You said your country doesn't have a lot of dogs, so there is no reason to worry that he will keep running into them, or that is a big part of his life. Many dogs go through life just knowing a few dogs, and really only playing with a small handful.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I don't know if this dog will ever "accept" other dogs. Its tough to tell from a post but most times when you see a really reactive dog the best you can do for them is to make them ignore other dogs. You have to work on LAT and really keep their focus on you through obedience training and exercise. He is still young, so his obedience with distractions can't be expected to be too high, but that is what you're going to have to work on. With a dog like this, you should probably not worry about him meeting and having other dog friends, its just not necessary. He has you, he has other people, and that might be all he needs. You said your country doesn't have a lot of dogs, so there is no reason to worry that he will keep running into them, or that is a big part of his life. Many dogs go through life just knowing a few dogs, and really only playing with a small handful.


Yeah I'm also not sure if he will accept other dogs, although since he does play with the dogs he knows, so hopefully he can have interest in others again. But if he doesn't, then at least it would be great if he can just see them neutrally.

My country has many dogs, it just doesn't have a dog park.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

sheep said:


> My country has many dogs, it just doesn't have a dog park.


The last thing your dog needs is a dog park. With the experiences he's had from just your neighbors, I wouldn't want to know what would go on in a dog park. You just need to bring him around dogs, separated by things, and make sure he pays attention to you. It's all about anticipating when you will see dogs and getting his attention before he realizes there is a dog in front of him. Start really slow, even in your yard, somewhere where he feels more comfortable and knows his surroundings. Don't force him into unknown situations before he's ready.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

martemchik said:


> The last thing your dog needs is a dog park. With the experiences he's had from just your neighbors, I wouldn't want to know what would go on in a dog park. You just need to bring him around dogs, separated by things, and make sure he pays attention to you. It's all about anticipating when you will see dogs and getting his attention before he realizes there is a dog in front of him. Start really slow, even in your yard, somewhere where he feels more comfortable and knows his surroundings. Don't force him into unknown situations before he's ready.


No no, dog parks would be for him to socialize when he was younger - if he had much more chances to socialize, the traumatic events wouldn't have meant so much. I wouldn't want to imagine what it would be like to bring him to a dog park right now thought!

Some weeks ago, an old neighbor that is the owner of another dog he used to play with, brought another dog that is a male pup. He was playing with the other dog, but then he was quite controlling to the pup, following him around, barking to him and mouthing his back a few times in a controlling way. Luckily, the pup is not afraid of him at all - as if he's the young version of my confident dog!

But well, 'till now I've been avoiding other dogs, and get his attention so that he wouldn't notice other dogs passing by. It's not convenient, but 'till we go to a trainer we gotta endure it... It's just so hard to train him right now since we can't control the variables and the environment.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

_*"Originally Posted by Jersey 2012 *__**_
_*Looking for some advised. I have a ten week old GS puppy. Last night she was on her bed with a meatybone, when i went by her and put my hand down, she growled at me, i have some concerns, because i have 19 month old and a 4 year old. Any adivise would be great. On how to handle this situation. I live in an isloated community with no dog trainners."*_



sheep said:


> One very important rule that parents must know is that *animals are irrational*. *You must not leave a child unsupervised with even the gentlest dog.*
> *This depends entirely on the individual dog and the child's age and disposition!*
> *Also, dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans. Can't argue with that! For example, how prone are YOU to bite?*
> 
> ...


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

sheep said:


> For safety, never let them together when your dog has food or high value treats. Since I was a kid, I've always been taught not to approach dogs that are eating, and I think that all parents must make this clear with their kids.


This, and let sleeping dogs lie. 



codmaster said:


> That isan old wives tale about "never go near a dog that is eating!".
> 
> 
> *MUCH safer that way!*
> ...


Agree and disagree. Keep kids away from a dog that is eating or sleeping. Training is good, very good, but parents should not risk a bite in the first place, it could mean the child's life or disfigurement.

And teach your children to be ever so careful hugging a dog. As children, we hugged our own dogs. I made the mistake of hugging a neighbor's dog and the dog snapped at my face. I was very lucky. It is not wise to take such a risk with children.

There are stories in the news everyday about family dogs seriously injuring children or worse. It is too late after the attack to say such things as he never did that before, he was so well trained and other such weak defenses for allowing a preventable accident to happen in the first place.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster, will a dog think about "no I must not bite or else I can be PTSed" or "if I bite this kid I'll cause serious damage on him"? A dog bites out of instinctual response.

Can you train a dog to safe proof him as much as possible? Yes you can. But you can't 100% safe proof it. And can you train a 19 months old the basics of how he should interact with a dog? With both combined, no matter how slim the chances are, you will always have a risk there.

You can never be sure if your dog won't bite out of some reaction towards something a kid does. And it only takes one single event for tragedy to happen.


Also, it's much safer to teach kids not to approach dogs that are eating (whether familiar or stranger dogs) rather than telling them to be in control or be the leader. A kid "shhtt"ing a dog with RG tendencies or even bringing him treats for exchange (positive training) can be a recipe for disaster.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sheep said:


> codmaster, will a dog think about "no I must not bite or else I can be PTSed" or "if I bite this kid I'll cause serious damage on him"? A dog bites out of instinctual response. *So your dog will bite you if you do something that he/she doesn't like? BTW, a dog generally doesn't "Think" at all just reacts based on instinct and training!*
> 
> Can you train a dog to safe proof him as much as possible? Yes you can. But you can't 100% safe proof it. And can you train a 19 months old the basics of how he should interact with a dog? With both combined, no matter how slim the chances are, you will always have a risk there.
> 
> ...


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

codmaster said:


> It is very easy to do when you get the dog as a puppy(if the dog has a normal temperament and nerves)! Or else maybe we have just been extremely lucky with all of our 8/9 GSD's over the last 40 years as never have we had any problem with food or toy guarding - NOT ONE!


No secret to anyone on here, Woolf has issues. Absolutely no food/resource guarding at all. If a bone, toy, food whatever needs to be picked up, it can without any kind of reaction. That applies to any one that is part of the extended 'family'. Naturally those outside the 'family' would be around Woolf in an environment that is strictly controlled simply because Woolf is Woolf.. 

Shadow will even offer to share her bone with you. 

But then all of my earlier dogs that includes GSD and pits to ankle biters were the same way. If I needed to take something I could and not worry about a growl or a bite.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> sheep said:
> 
> 
> > codmaster, will a dog think about "no I must not bite or else I can be PTSed" or "if I bite this kid I'll cause serious damage on him"? A dog bites out of instinctual response. *So your dog will bite you if you do something that he/she doesn't like? BTW, a dog generally doesn't "Think" at all just reacts based on instinct and training!*
> ...


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Also, it's not just RG that we have to worry about - fear response, surprise (being startled like when the dog is sleeping and a kid decided to scare him), or even not intended accidents can happen. I'll give you an example:

My own dog never had any RG issues. He brings his chew stuffs and sits next to us, we can take stuffs right from his mouth, and the worst he does is to run away with the object or not wanting to release it. But he never ever growled for that, not even when our other family dog - a min pin - takes away his high value treats from his mouth.
But once, I've got my finger chewed. Why? Coz once, my pup was half sleepy and he was chewing a bone, and when he stopped and just looked sleepy, I tried to take away his bone away slowly, hoping that he wouldn't notice (since he was sleepy). But then the movement reminded him that he has a bone in his mouth, so that he resumed the chewing (still with a sleepy face). Slowly but painfully, a back tooth sank on my thumb, and he wasn't even noticing!

So could you, by training, avoid such accidents from happening between a dog and a 19months old? 19 months old children are not conscious of the consequences of their actions, nor they know much about what they shouldn't do with a dog. That isn't RG issues, nor fear issues, nor any other response issues. You can avoid accidents from happening by always supervise their interactions, but hardly be able to avoid such the moment you don't supervise them.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sheep said:


> codmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Just coz someone says "it's not safe to leave a dog alone with a child", it doesn't mean that their own dogs has *RG (???)* issues. But well, some people just like to use arguments like "I trust my dogs 100% but since you don't agree with *leaving dogs alone with 19months olds, your dog must have issues*". *Assuming that other people's dogs are not well trained* or has issues just coz they don't agree with something is such a good way to argue with someone...
> ...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> This, and let sleeping dogs lie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
NO reason *ever* for a family dog to be aggressive around their food or any possession (at least in my opinion and my experience with my own dogs!).

Strange dogs are a completely different thing - you don't know them of course or how or if they have been trained to be tolerant.

A way too common attitude that I have seen is, even with experienced dog owners who still have the attitude "Stay away from the dog, he is eating!". In which case, it is better to stay away from that dog!


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

codmaster said:


> *NO reason ever for a family dog to be aggressive around their food or any possession* (at least in my opinion and my experience with my own dogs!).
> 
> Strange dogs are a completely different thing - you don't know them of course or how or if they have been trained to be tolerant.
> 
> A way too common attitude that I have seen is, even with experienced dog owners who still have the attitude *"Stay away from the dog, he is eating!". In which case, it is better to stay away from that dog*!


I have never had a dog that resourced guarded or was untrustworthy around food, but then again neither were any of my dogs ever pestered while eating. 

If staying away from the dog while eating or stayng away from the dog in general is what it takes to keep a child safe, then so be it. But I really don't see what keeping a child away from a dog while eating has anything to do with keeping a child away from interaction with a dog while under responsible parental supervision.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> I have never had a dog that resourced guarded or was untrustworthy around food, but then again neither were any of my dogs ever pestered while eating.
> 
> If staying away from the dog while eating or stayng away from the dog in general is what it takes to keep a child safe, then so be it. *But I really don't see what keeping a child away from a dog while eating has anything to do with keeping a child away from interaction with a dog while under responsible parental supervision*.


 
That's fine. I don't see any difference between the dog eating or chewing something or playing tug or anyhing else in interacting with my child.

To me, I always felt that I could trust our own dogs with our child even when he was a little guy, whether they were eating or chewing a real bone or playing with any of their toys. Just like me playing tug with our current dog - I would never even think about him getting aggressive when I pulled on the tug toy. Could he get my finger by accident, of course. Just like I might accidently whack him by accident when we are playing.

The way they were raised and trained (as was our son), we never really thought about any of them acting aggressively toward anybody in the family - just not a possibility (barring any real weird thing like a bad injury, of course).

Some folks may think differently - that is fine and their perogative of course. Nothing wrong with that!

But enough with this thread - we all raise and treat our dogs as we see best. And that is the way it is and should be!


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> sheep said:
> 
> 
> > *BTW NO TRAGEDY* in 40+ years of having GSD's that we trusted! (Just extremely lucky as I said!)
> ...


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sheep said:


> codmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Who is misunderstanding who actually?  I was talking about never leaving a dog and a child alone unsupervised, and also about teaching kids not to approach dogs that are eating due to safety; and then you came in and said that you would trust your own dogs with your kids and never had issues, and asked if I would then never let my dog interact with my kids at all, which is not related since I meant not leaving kid and dog alone unsupervised and teaching kids not to approach dogs that are eating, not about not letting them interact at all.
> ...


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'd have to agree with codmaster on this one...I would train a dog to not be aggressive over food rather than train my kid (or in that case any kid that can possibly be in my home) to not approach my dog while he's eating or has a toy in his mouth. It is much easier, and safer to train your dog to not worry/be aggressive over resource guarding than expecting children not to mess with your dog. My dog has never been a resource guarder but if I ever had one that was, it would be fixed immediately rather than expecting people to know how to act in front of my dog.


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## erricsimmons457 (May 21, 2012)

You are correct.Dogs can sometimes be aggressive if we tend to mess up with them while they are playing with their toys.Playfulness shouldn't be interrupted in such situations.The same is true if they are playing with something like bone which makes them over possessive about it.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I'd have to agree with codmaster on this one...I would train a dog to not be aggressive over food rather than train my kid (or in that case any kid that can possibly be in my home) to not approach my dog while he's eating or has a toy in his mouth. It is much easier, and safer to train your dog to not worry/be aggressive over resource guarding than expecting children not to mess with your dog. My dog has never been a resource guarder but if I ever had one that was, it would be fixed immediately rather than expecting people to know how to act in front of my dog.


But would that not be placing *all* the responsibility on a mere dog? How could you feel secure for the safety of others by putting it in the dog's paws?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Falkosmom said:


> But would that not be placing *all* the responsibility on a mere dog? How could you feel secure for the safety of others by putting it in the dog's paws?


Same way people that train their dog in bite work put all the responsibility in their dog to listen to the handler on when it's ok and not ok to do something. I feel much more confident in my ability to train a dog not to ever do something than my ability to control each and every situation where my dog might encounter a child. Dogs are extremely binary in their thinking, its either ALWAYS or NEVER. If you can get the dog to put certain actions in the NEVER box, they will not do them. Again, I'm looking at this and assuming the dog is stable enough to be around children and isn't a menace to society. I'm not thinking about extreme cases where this might not work, I'm thinking about the average dog from a good breeder, a dog that I might've done the research on and then gotten something wrong, but still an over all good animal.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> sheep said:
> 
> 
> > sheep,
> ...


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

sheep said:


> codmaster said:
> 
> 
> > If you are fine with the idea that dogs and children being alone unsupervised can be 100% safe as long as the dog is trained then it's your decision. What I said is that I would not risk a tragedy even if my dog is well trained, like how many other people trusted their "perfect" dogs but then ended up with a tragedy.
> ...


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

martemchik said:


> Each person has a different idea of what "well trained" is. So I don't trust anyone that says they had a great dog, he listened, and then he did X. I would trust my dog around kids, he's not nearly as trained as I want him to be, but he loves children and would play with them all day if given the chance. We have taught him not to mouth them, or chase them, but he'll play tug, fetch, and anything else with kids. First time he met my baby cousin, they laid together and he was used as a pillow.
> 
> I would never leave ALL dogs with kids, but I would expect that any dog I own would be able to handle being around children and being able to eat while being touched without any issues.
> Some people think that knowing: sit, come, down, and paw makes a well trained dog. To me, that means nothing because the dog does it at home, without distraction, and hasn't proven the ability to do other commands. But a dog that knows those things is a pretty **** good housedog in my opinion, just not extremely well trained. My dog is one leg away from a CD, and is training for his CDX, but I don't consider him well trained, I consider him a work in progress.


Supervising and not supervising is different. Many dogs can be trusted with kids when there's supervision, but how can we make sure 100% that a dog is really 100% reliable to be alone with a child unsupervised? Also, young children can do many things that can cause dangerous responses from a dog. That is why the lack of supervision can be dangerous, coz one can't control what is happening.

There's a story that a dog was PTSed coz he bit a child, coz this child decided to stuck a pencil in his butt and the parents didn't care about diagnosing the dog before PTSing him.

And then there was a case, this time from some family friend, that a very young kid decided to throw the dog out of the window thinking that the chihuahua was a toy.

Sometimes children can do very dangerous things to a dog, and it's not easy to safe proof every kind of situation that might happen between a dog and a child unsupervised.

And as you said, people has different ideas of what "well trained" means. A person might think that he trained the dog so well that he can leave a child with his dog alone unsupervised, but then is it really safe? Is it well trained enough?

Maybe some feels that they can trust their dogs 100%. But for me, I prefer to only allow supervised interactions between dogs and kids, specially if the kids are very young.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

By the way, the quotes are not working well in this thread.

Also, why not start a thread talking about the pros and cons of the possibility of leaving children and dogs alone unsupervised? As well as the trainings you would do if you do leave your kid and dog alone? As well as a poll for voting? That way, more members can join in and I can also have my original topic back.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

sheep said:


> That way, more members can join in and I can also have my original topic back.


Lol...then take it back! I was going to post something about the original question but then I forgot. I think it was something to do with the fact that a dog park doesn't sound safe in your area anyways and the dogs you have run ins with on the street would just be found at the park. I don't think having more good dog experiences would've changed much for your dog, he sounds a little weaker nerved and those experiences really affected him negatively. I say this only because my dog was attacked 3 times when he was little as well and it didn't do a thing to his playfulness. He wanted to go back and play with those same dogs the very next day. Some dogs just can't get over a bad experience, while others have no problem with it at all.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

The topic of feeding, leave them alone, train to be able to remove things and the method behind it is an age old debate. Each have trained their dog for this how they saw best, as it should be.

As far as leaving kids alone unsupervised, I've looked back through this thread and that has not been stated. If it has, please quote it so all who read the thread can be on the same page.

Back to the original topic  How has the search for a trainer progressed? I remember how tough it was finding the one we go to. Talked with many, some we just didn't click with, some it took talking with clients to realize the experience needed just wasn't there, a couple would have been a lawsuit waiting to happen with the methods they wanted to use.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

Twyla said:


> The topic of feeding, leave them alone, train to be able to remove things and the method behind it is an age old debate. Each have trained their dog for this how they saw best, as it should be.
> 
> As far as leaving kids alone unsupervised, I've looked back through this thread and that has not been stated. If it has, please quote it so all who read the thread can be on the same page.
> 
> Back to the original topic  How has the search for a trainer progressed? I remember how tough it was finding the one we go to. Talked with many, some we just didn't click with, some it took talking with clients to realize the experience needed just wasn't there, a couple would have been a lawsuit waiting to happen with the methods they wanted to use.


Here (my first post in reply to Jersey 2012):



sheep said:


> One very important rule that parents must know is that animals are irrational. *You must not leave a child unsupervised with even the gentlest dog*. Also, dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans.
> 
> For safety, never let them together when your dog has food or high value treats. Since I was a kid, I've always been taught not to approach dogs that are eating, and I think that all parents must make this clear with their kids.


But well, yeah every trainer and owner has their own philosophy about dogs that we can spend another eternity debating about it and never really reach a good conclusion lol. 

About the training, we still need to meet the trainers of the training center that was recommended by a neighbor first. I need to know by instinct if I agree with the trainers' methods first before I trust my dog to them.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"*You must not leave a child unsupervised with even the gentlest dog*. Also, *dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans."*


Heh! Heh!

Can't argue with the second broad statment! 
Although I might just wonder just what the reasons might be!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

martemchik said:


> Lol...then take it back! I was going to post something about the original question but then I forgot. I think it was something to do with the fact that a dog park doesn't sound safe in your area anyways and the dogs you have run ins with on the street would just be found at the park. I don't think having more good dog experiences would've changed much for your dog, he sounds a little weaker nerved and those experiences really affected him negatively. I say this only because my dog was attacked 3 times when he was little as well and it didn't do a thing to his playfulness. He wanted to go back and play with those same dogs the very next day.* Some dogs just can't get over a bad experience, while others have no problem with it at all*.


That has a lot to do with the genetic "nerve" of the dog. Similar to people!


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

_Originally Posted by sheep 
One very important rule that parents must know is that animals are irrational. You must not leave a child unsupervised with even the gentlest dog. Also, dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans.

For safety, never let them together when your dog has food or high value treats. Since I was a kid, I've always been taught not to approach dogs that are eating, and I think that all parents must make this clear with their kids._

Ahhh ok, I was assuming you were debating with someone on the subject since it appeared that you were disagreeing about supervision or no supervision. That is where the confusion was probably since no one had said they'd leave kids unsupervised with a dog. 

As far as the trainer, hope they check out good and enjoy each of the classes with your pup. Good for bonding and for your pup to build trust in you.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I'd have to agree with codmaster on this one...I would train a dog to not be aggressive over food rather than train my kid (or in that case any kid that can possibly be in my home) to not approach my dog while he's eating or has a toy in his mouth.


How can you advocate training the dog rather than teaching the child based on *your* dog being good with children and being trained? What do you think will happen if your child and other children that are not taught to be respectful of dogs meet dogs that do not like children and/or have not been trained to tolerate whatever a child dishes out? Or they meet dogs like yours that are now old, in pain, sick?

Who on this site has not witnessed a dog sick or in pain snap at those they love?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> How can you advocate training the dog rather than teaching the child based on *your* dog being good with children and being trained? What do you think will happen if your child and other children that are not taught to be respectful of dogs meet dogs that do not like children and/or have not been trained to tolerate whatever a child dishes out? Or they meet dogs like yours that are now old, in pain, sick?
> 
> Who on this site has not witnessed a dog sick or in pain snap at those they love?


 
*BOTH kids and Dogs need to be trained! Preferably from "puppyhood" for both!*


*Besides I think most folks (me anyway) were talking about family dogs and "their" kids!*

*Strange dogs are an entirely different matter, of course!!!!*


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> I'd have to agree with codmaster on this one...*I would train a dog to not be aggressive over food rather than train my kid (or in that case any kid that can possibly be in my home) to not approach my dog* while he's eating or has a toy in his mouth.





codmaster said:


> *BOTH kids and Dogs need to be trained! Preferably from "puppyhood" for both!*
> 
> 
> *Besides I think most folks (me anyway) were talking about family dogs and "their" kids!*
> ...


I was responding to the above post where it was stated they would rather train their dog than teach their child or any child that may come into contact with their dog.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Falkosmom said:


> I was responding to the above post where it was stated *they would rather train their dog than teach their child or any child that may come into contact with their dog*.


 
*Who said that?*


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

martemchik said:


> *I'd have to agree with codmaster on this one...I would train a dog to not be aggressive over food rather than train my kid (or in that case any kid that can possibly be in my home) to not approach my dog while he's eating or has a toy in his mouth. It is much easier, and safer to train your dog to not worry/be aggressive over resource guarding than expecting children not to mess with your dog.* My dog has never been a resource guarder but if I ever had one that was, it would be fixed immediately rather than expecting people to know how to act in front of my dog.





codmaster said:


> *Who said that?*


Martemchik


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> "*You must not leave a child unsupervised with even the gentlest dog*. Also, *dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans."*
> 
> 
> Heh! Heh!
> ...


Did you mean "what reasons might be that dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans"? Are you sure that we even need to discuss this??


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sheep said:


> Did you mean "what reasons might be that dogs are more prone to bite for various reasons than humans"? Are you sure that we even need to discuss this??


 
I was wondering what "various reasons" specifically you might have had in mind when you made your statment that "dogs are more likely to bite.... than humans".

That is, why do you think that dogs are more likely than humans to bite? 

I am assuming of course that hunger is not one of your "various reasons", correct?


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> I was wondering what "various reasons" specifically you might have had in mind when you made your statment that "dogs are more likely to bite.... than humans".
> 
> That is, why do you think that dogs are more likely than humans to bite?
> 
> I am assuming of course that hunger is not one of your "various reasons", correct?


Are you serious?? Dogs are more prone to bite than humans simply coz their mouth/teeth is their main attack/defense "weapon"... Humans has their hands and feet, they are more likely to use these in a fight or in defense than their teeth (maybe unless they can't use these for some reason).

Also, what are the various reasons I had in mind when I wrote that? Again, are you serious?? Go google the various reasons dogs can bite. I thought that it was common knowledge between even the most inexperienced owners.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sheep said:


> Are you serious?? Dogs are more prone to bite than humans simply coz their mouth/teeth is their main attack/defense "weapon"... Humans has their hands and feet, they are more likely to use these in a fight or in defense than their teeth (maybe unless they can't use these for some reason).
> 
> Also, what are the various reasons I had in mind when I wrote that? Again, are you serious?? Go google the various reasons dogs can bite. I thought that it was common knowledge between even the most inexperienced owners.


 
*Heh! Heh! I didn't think that you could be serious with your statement, actually. My apologies!*

I guess we could also say that people are "more likely to punch or kick than a dog would be although a GSD often does like to hse their paws".

Besides "simply coz their mouth/teeth is their main attack/defense "weapon", *what are the other reasons that you had in mind? *

(Just out of curiosity and, of course, besides hunger or a mistake in grabbing a toy from a human's hand?)


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Sheep

You're originally question as been so sidelined - it may be a good idea to start a new thread on your dogs problems - with a different heading to avoid any confusion. 
_________
Sue


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

jakes mom said:


> Hi Sheep
> 
> You're originally question as been so sidelined - it may be a good idea to start a new thread on your dogs problems - with a different heading to avoid any confusion.
> _________
> Sue


Yeah I think that the original question is so forgotten, but well, I guess that in any ways, there's no point in continuing this thread (both the original topic and the debate about biting and leaving kids and dogs unsupervised) since we aren't reaching any useful conclusion anyways. With my original problem, I think that I can't really think much about it and only try to find a good trainer.


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## sheep (Dec 2, 2011)

codmaster said:


> *Heh! Heh! I didn't think that you could be serious with your statement, actually. My apologies!*
> 
> I guess we could also say that people are "more likely to punch or kick than a dog would be although a GSD often does like to hse their paws".
> 
> ...


Oh my, I'm too tired to deal with people who don't even have good arguments for a debate that is good enough. In your past posts, what you had to say are basically:
- you trust your own dogs with your kids so you disagree that kids and dogs can't ever be left alone unsupervised, and anyone who says that probably has dogs with issues or aren't well trained;
- with people who disagree with you, if English is not their mother language, then it must be them that misunderstood what you were trying to say;
- you don't know what reasons can make a dog bite.

So yeah, please don't take me seriously. Coz the more I read your replies, the more I can't take our debate seriously.


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