# Gunner ate a baby bunny!



## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

And was on his way to seconds before my husband could stop him. 
So sad!
My husband let him out this morning to do his business and a short time later wondered what was taking so long.
He went out on the deck and saw Gunner eating a baby bunny. He swallowed it before my husband could get down the steps to see what it was. Just then he saw another one, injured. It looks like Gunner had pawed at it. It's back had missing fur and scratch marks.

As far as we know he only ate one, but we don't know that for sure. 
They were buried in the grass in front of the deck. Apparently it's not uncommon for the momma to put them out in the open. I just wish it had been outside of our yard. 

Mark took the surviving bunny to a wildlife rescue not far from us. The lady there said she'd give him antibiotics, keep him warm and watch him. She said had he not been brought in he likely would have died from infection very quickly.
Poor little fella, I feel so bad. I'm sending a donation to the rescue for their efforts in helping the baby bunny.

I didn't feed Gunner this morning because I didn't know how much he ate, or how it would affect his tummy. God knows this dog has enough tummy troubles. I just attempted to feed him and he isn't interested. Great!! 
I called the vet first thing this morning because he is due for his heartworm meds today and I realized I was out. But they won't give him any until he has his heartworm test, which he was due for in Feb.
He was there 2 times between May & July for his tummy issues. You'd think they would have mentioned it then and he could have had it done. 
We have an appt for Tues (closed Mon for the holiday). Which is fine, this way if he develops any effects of the bunny eating they can treat it then.
Of course if anything happens before then I'll head to the e-vet.

Poor bunny, I hope he makes it. And I feel really bad for momma bunny. She's going to come back and there won't be anyone there. 

Edit: Forgot to mention, the lady estimated the bunny to be between 4-5 days old.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Were the bunnies wild? Or loose domestic? I would think wild ones would pick a better location to leave their young. While it is a little sad, rabbits are prolific breeders and unfortunately for them low on the food chain. I hope this does not cause Gunner any problems.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I can't tell you how many bunnies have been the main course for dinner in my yard and they keep moving in. It's gross though and wish they would just stay out of the danger zone.The worst part is when they scream right before the dogs kill them. I wouldn't worry too much about the eating part. It was very young and small.


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## hattifattener (Oct 7, 2011)

i wouldn't feel bad,it's natural.

Odi caught and ate young hare.
ate everything,including head and fur.
no consequences.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I sometimes think rabbits only task in life is to be very low on the food chain. I have had moms make there nests in a dog run. Haven't quite figured that one out with all the fields around me.

I'm not sure about babies, but adult ones here have a high risk of tapeworm. You may want to talk to your vet about a preventive worming.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

I let me dogs eat rabbits  it's a pretty good meal for them. You do have to worry about tapeworms from rabbits, but mine are on preventative (the heartworm pill also kills both types of tapes) and they get tested once a year for intestinal parasites.

Anyway, such is nature.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

When we moved Smokey and Zeeva found a squirrels nest in our backyard. They killed all the squirrels but I don't think they ate them...It was a sad day indeed.

Thanks for taking that bunny to the wildlife place. I hope it survives and lives a nice life!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

He probably had the best meal of his life!

there are years when we have way too many "bunnies" . After a fresh snowfall you can see the criss cross bunny track highways . Grr girding newly planted apple trees .

In the spring my cats caught and ate bunnies -- this year too many coyotes , cats stay inside.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Nigel said:


> Were the bunnies wild? Or loose domestic? I would think wild ones would pick a better location to leave their young. While it is a little sad, rabbits are prolific breeders and unfortunately for them low on the food chain. I hope this does not cause Gunner any problems.


Wild bunny. There's one (or more) who often are seen in my yard at night. I think they live under my shed. Every night when he goes out for his last pee, there's always one out there and gets chased across the yard. You would think they would KNOW! 



Betty said:


> I'm not sure about babies, but adult ones here have a high risk of tapeworm. You may want to talk to your vet about a preventive worming.


That's why I wanted to get his heartworm meds refilled. He was due today. I give him his pill every first of the month. I'll be watching closely.



Zeeva said:


> Thanks for taking that bunny to the wildlife place. I hope it survives and lives a nice life!


My husband is such a softy regarding any animal. We didn't want to leave it to die, no way! He immediately looked for a rescue on the internet and found an organization called Wildlife Aid. Two very nice women run it. They rehabilitate and release them back to the wild.

Once when he was coming home from work he hit a squirrel. He scooped it up and rushed it over to the vet. Sadly it didn't make it, but that's just the way he is. :wub:


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

maybe gunner, likes "raw'


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

carmspack said:


> He probably had the best meal of his life!


I posted about Gunner not eating now on Facebook and one of my friends (a member here too) said that he was full from his raw diet. 
I'm not sure if she was kidding or not.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

When he was about a year or so old, he found a few baby squirrels that had fallen from the tree.
Momma squirrel was in the process of retrieving them and stopped when Gunner was nosing around.
There were two still on the ground, one looked to be dead. But he didn't try to eat them. He was curious, sniffed them, kinda did a circling around them, but didn't move in. 
We left the yard and waited to see if momma would come and get them. She did, even the dead one. At least it looked dead, it wasn't moving the whole time we were out there.

I guess that's why I was surprised to see him eat one. I would have never thought he'd do it. But I guess dogs will be dogs.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

probably not kidding , finally he is satisfied , needs met .

the only thing with rabbits is the risk of tapeworm . 
my cats catch mice and I noticed a segment in the stool when I changed the litter - so - both got treated praziquantel


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

GSDGunner said:


> When he was about a year or so old, he found a few baby squirrels that had fallen from the tree.
> Momma squirrel was in the process of retrieving them and stopped when Gunner was nosing around.
> There were two still on the ground, one looked to be dead. But he didn't try to eat them. He was curious, sniffed them, kinda did a circling around them, but didn't move in.
> We left the yard and waited to see if momma would come and get them. She did, even the dead one. At least it looked dead, it wasn't moving the whole time we were out there.
> ...


Might have to do with wether they are attempting to flee or not. The rabbits probably tried to run, triggering Gunners prey drive, while the squirrels were too young. Just a hunch though.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Our GSD mix just wanted to mother the baby bunnies she used to find. Oh the screaming though. It would freak my kids out! Rabbits are the bottom of the food chain for a lot of reasons. The momma rabbits would build nests in the middle of my front flower bed every year...sometimes two or three times in the same year! Paige got to love a lot of baby bunnies in her life. None of them ever survived. So far, Scarlett has not gotten any, but I am pretty sure that's because the Copperhead snake in our yard is getting them first.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

We have lots of rabbits in our pasture, adult and babies. The dogs go after them here too, as they scatter from under brush.

Fortunately, only one small was pawed really bad, not eaten 

Hopefully it was small enough That Gunner can digest and pass most of it.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Nigel said:


> Might have to do with wether they are attempting to flee or not. The rabbits probably tried to run, triggering Gunners prey drive, while the squirrels were too young. Just a hunch though.


That's possible, but I don't know if they can even attempt to run at just a few days old. The one that was injured was so tiny. My guess is he smelled them out. He chases a rabbit nightly and he knows the smell. He will back track the scent after he's chased it. He probably smelled them in the grass. The grass is a bit high and needs to be mowed. When my husband put him back in the grass, we noticed a small hole that had been covered with grass.
I think that's what momma had dug to shelter them. But Gunner must have smelled them.


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## Silver Black sable (Aug 29, 2012)

i dont think its that bad it is natural maybe a little sad my cat has done it before its sad but natural

i dont think id mind as much if it was an adult bunny but the baby aspect makes it a little more sad


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

GSDGunner said:


> Wild bunny. There's one (or more) who often are seen in my yard at night. I think they live under my shed. Every night when he goes out for his last pee, there's always one out there and gets chased across the yard. You would think they would KNOW!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm the exactly the same way... when I was a teen my dog killed a mama mouse and orphaned her babies so I took them home and raised them
I can't help it.
Although it's sad ( I love bunnies and currently have one) it wasn't your fault or your dogs.
Those bunnies had a terrible mom !! lol
I think it's wonderful that you and your hubby took the injured one to a rescue and gave a donation.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I'd be happy for my dog and let it go for it. Save me trouble and money for her meals.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would have probably quickly put bunny 2 out of its pain, skinned/cleaned it and put it in the fridge for tomorrow, but that's just me, I have hunted, I have fished, I don't have a problem giving dogs raw meat.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Lucky is a rabbit hunter. He does not eat them he seems to want them as a stuffed animal. This year yet again we had large full grown rabbit on the steps of our deck after I yelled at Luckyto drop it. Daisy loved them to death. I do believe rabbit mothers are dumb . They made a nest in the weeds next to our fence. I called it the the thicket of death.Lucky and Daisy both hunted. Daisy actually pointed when she saw groundhogs and other small game. I try to discourage it but as I lose my lettuce to rabbits its hard to say the dogs are wrong. Neither of mine ate thier rabbits,no wait Lucky did once. Daisy just groomed them to a death by fear.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

selzer said:


> I would have probably quickly put bunny 2 out of its pain, skinned/cleaned it and put it in the fridge for tomorrow, but that's just me, I have hunted, I have fished, I don't have a problem giving dogs raw meat.


Yeah, that's just you.  No way that either of us could have killed it. It's just not in our nature to kill an animal.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

GSDGunner said:


> Yeah, that's just you.  No way that either of us could have killed it. It's just not in our nature to kill an animal.


See, I see it differently. I figure an animal that has sustained an injury is already in pain, and killing it is actually merciful. Using the meat just makes the critter's life not be in vain. I have only hunted what I have been intending to use for food. It is not just a sport or a desire for trophies to hunt. The best conservationists out there are good hunters.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

A lot of the meat sold in the market these days that people eat are living in bad conditions and dying of a slow painful death. People eat them... that is what I consider wrong.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

Tess scared two up today, from the middle yard through the open gate into back yard, back into middle and down the driveway as soon as she hit the front line of the house(she's not allowed past without permission) she skidded to a stop and they escaped.... a lot of excitement but very happy she knew her boundaries even in full chase mode..


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

starburst said:


> I'm the exactly the same way... when I was a teen my dog killed a mama mouse and orphaned her babies so I took them home and raised them
> I can't help it.


you sound like my sister. She found an injured mouse, it had a broken leg, so she nursed it back to health and keeps it as a pet. She figured a 3 legged mouse wouldn't stand a chance against the neighborhood cats.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Some mouse got caught in my house that had a recent litter. The little ones came out a day or two later. Babs brought one up into the bed -- ick!!! I found another on the floor. It was moving. I took it outside and flung it with the pooper scooper and it fell into the puppy yard -- ick! I went and got it again, still moving, I know that's awful, but I flung it again. I figure some hawk or snake got a meal. 

Raise orphan mice? No. Not me. 

I raised a dog house up in the yard and found a litter of them. Arwen grabbed one and went behind the house, probably to eat it, I did not inquire. Frodo grabbed one, I put the house down, and Frodo killed the mouse. I lifted the house and he grabbed another and killed it -- did not eat them. I kept lifting the house until he killed them all. Mice in the yard in the summer mean mice in the house in late fall.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

Around here bunnies are appetizers, they're not the sharpest creatures and come into a yard with 3 insane terriers, I don't mind though as the bunnies get in my hay and crap on it, drives me up the wall, I even tell the terrorists lets get some bunnies and mice as we walk outside., they go insane with excitement, it's what dogs do, and mine are bred to do it, they never stop hunting for varmints the whole time I'm outside, I actually like it, that's why I have them, hay and grain and shavings attract mice, rats, rabbits and squirrels, all which carry diseases and are pests, I would be over run in my barn and feed rooms without my terriers.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hattifattener said:


> i wouldn't feel bad,*it's natural.*
> 
> Odi caught and ate young hare.
> ate everything,including head and fur.
> no consequences.


 
Got to wonder if you (and others that feel it is "natural") would feel the same way if your dog was the "prey" of a bigger dog or a wolf or a coyote pack?

Just curious?


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## hattifattener (Oct 7, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Got to wonder if you (and others that feel it is "natural") would feel the same way if your dog was the "prey" of a bigger dog or a wolf or a coyote pack?
> 
> Just curious?



the same-it's natural.

that's wolf's right.

on other hand my right and obligation is to do everything possible in order to prevent attack.

if i fail to do that,it's my bad.

by the way,wolves aren't just hypothetical threat here,they are
one of reasons why i do not leave my dogs unattended.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hattifattener said:


> the same-it's natural.
> 
> that's wolf's right.
> 
> ...


I respect your feeling. 

I suspect that most folks who think it is ok or even cool for their dog to kill rabbits and other small prey will feel entirely different when their pet becomes prey (like as lot of my cat owning friends feel!).


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm with hatti. My job to keep my dogs safe.
My job to keep my other animals safe.
Of course, when it comes to my livestock, that has on more than one occasion involved killing predators - *****, foxes, and roaming dogs.
Yes, some people can't accept that there are dangers to allowing a domestic animal to roam around. That doesn't mean that most people feel that way.


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## hattifattener (Oct 7, 2011)

@ codmaster

no,it's neither something cool nor something very bad.
i am kind of neutral about this.

like Kurt Vonnegut used to say - so it goes.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

hattifattener said:


> the same-it's natural.
> 
> that's wolf's right.
> 
> ...


I agree with your post, however wolves are a very real threat to pets & livestock for many in the northern US & Canada as well. I don't like to address them as a threat, to me it sounds kind of villainous. They are one of many risks that come with living in their home range. For the record I'm very pro-wolf.


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

codmaster said:


> I respect your feeling.
> 
> I suspect that most folks who think it is ok or even cool for their dog to kill rabbits and other small prey will feel entirely different when their pet becomes prey (like as lot of my cat owning friends feel!).



But the reality is rabbits and mice and squirrels and rats are vermin, this isn't Snow Whites Village as a horse owner these vermin bring the real threat of disease and injury to my horses, my priority is them and their health and safety, this is precisely why certain breeds have been bred for centuries to hunt and kill them, if it's between filthy vermin and my valuable treasured horses , well , it's a no-brainer, now I don't take my terriers out into the desert just to hunt and kill them, but if they come onto my property, it's a done deal, and if my dogs got loose and were killed by Coyotes that too would be natural, just like I would kill them for coming on my property.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

I rather enjoy watching my dog hunt mice....especially in a foot of snow, it's amazing...stop, head caulk, then plows his head into a foot of snow - sometimes nails it sometimes requires some burrowing and digging...in the summer he does the coyote pounce....bong bong bong...

I think he only ate one once. He usually grabs it, spills it's intestines and then looses interest, while it squirms, I feel bad and say "oh Gator - kill it!", he then turns back and crushes it's head w/his incisors...then on to the next. They move like lightning through grass and snow tunnels...truely something to see.

But I don't let him go after other things...he has however nailed 2 opposums, a groundhog, caught a coyote on leash (right beside me in tall grass), too many mice to count, a couple birds (ground nests), 3 or 4 cats (but they got the better of him - never killed) stalked and tried to catch blue heron...

Raccon and deer are high on his wish list...and bunnies

A mouse did retaliate once...G flushed him out - got caught in the foot print as G went in for the kill it grabbed him by the nose (like a nose ring) - his head came up, mouse flayling side to side, managed to shake it off sending it about 5 ft. then a 1-2 pounce and dead mouse. G's nose started to gush blood...I couldn't see any cuts/bites (so I surmissed nose ring)...he continued to ram shnauze in the snow taking care of the bleeding...I ran some colloidal silver in and around his nostrals when got home.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Before








After much determination


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

selzer said:


> Some mouse got caught in my house that had a recent litter. The little ones came out a day or two later. Babs brought one up into the bed -- ick!!! I found another on the floor. It was moving. * I took it outside and flung it with the pooper scooper and it fell into the puppy yard* -- ick! I went and got it again, still moving, I know that's awful, but I flung it again. I figure some hawk or snake got a meal.


See, this I don't get. I understand you not wanting them. Fine, I get it. But to "fling" it into the yard, not once but twice? 
I get the whole food chain thing and I can live with that. I can live with my dog killing baby bunnies, he's a dog. But to fling a helpless animal like that just makes me sad. There was no reason that this poor animal had to suffer like that.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom killing or intentionally injuring another living being, regardless of what it is unless I (or Gunner) was in imminent danger.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

While I understand the food chain(bunnies at the bottom of course), nature, and the circle of life, etc...that doesn't mean I have to like it. I hear coyotes getting their dinner quite often and for days I hear that screaming If any of my dogs ate a rabbit I would be pretty upset. They might be the bottom of the food chain in the wild, but my dogs aren't wild, they are domesticated. If I wanted a dog that ate rabbits and other live things I would have a wolf or coyote as a pet. I have tons of rabbits running around where I am at, not one of my dogs even chase them, its not allowed ever period. My oldest dog has gone as far as saving several babies that were drowning in the hole the mama dug for them. She must have smelled them because it was pouring one day and she was anxious to get out(she usually hates going out in the rain), once I opened the door, she dragged me right to the hole. I was amazed that it was right out in the open, but that is what they do. Needless to say I ended up with a bunch of baby bunnies for a few days until I could find a place to take them. And she helped take care of them My dogs might be a little bit weird, I can put a raw meaty bone and yogurt down and all three will go for the yogurt over the bone


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I agree with your hubbie. I hate to see my dogs kill anything. When I had my old pack out some years ago they scared up a adult rabbit. Unfortunately, the rabbit made a bad choice and they cornered him at a fence. I will never forget that death scream. It was awful. I accept the balance of nature. I have a long time ago but I was mad at my dogs because they didn't kill to survive but if you own a dog with a strong prey drive, it happens. I couldn't punish them. But it was not a good memory.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Nikitta said:


> I agree with your hubbie. I hate to see my dogs kill anything. When I had my old pack out some years ago they scared up a adult rabbit. Unfortunately, the rabbit made a bad choice and they cornered him at a fence. I will never forget that death scream. It was awful. I accept the balance of nature. I have a long time ago but I was mad at my dogs because they didn't kill to survive but if you own a dog with a strong prey drive, it happens. I couldn't punish them. But it was not a good memory.


Just last week at about 2am, I was sound asleep when I heard that awful scream. It had to be really close, because I had the radio on and I still heard it. My dogs went nuts when they heard it. I think my oldest would attempt to take on a coyote in that situation...she doesn't like when anything gets hurt, she can be protective. It took her a few minutes to settle down after this event.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

I doubt the baby rabbit survived. I used to breed rabbits any kit below 4 weeks will most likely pass without their mothers milk. Rabbits produce a unique milk that not only nourishes the young but provides them with valuable antibodies and builds the immune system. Unless she has a lactating doe at her rescue the baby (especially injured) will just pass imo.
If you ever have to put down a hurt bunny a quick blow to the back of the head is the quickest way. 
I keep some rats and mice to feed my snakes, sometimes I have to knock them on the head before feeding. These animals are natural prey for so much of the eco system. Doesnt mean you can torture them or mistreat them, but I dont get too bent out of shape when they get offed by something. There will always be more.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

All this talk about not hurting some mice or bunny - do you guys eat meat? Do you know how your meat was raised and killed? Do you know where your dogs' meat come from and how it lived and died?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

hattifattener said:


> @ codmaster
> 
> no,it's neither something cool nor something very bad.
> i am kind of neutral about this.
> ...


 
As long as folks don't have a double standard, I am ok with it.

I.E no whining if their dog or cat gets attacked while outside - just like they allow their pet to attack other animals.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Bear L said:


> All this talk about not hurting some mice or bunny - do you guys eat meat? Do you know how your meat was raised and killed? Do you know where your dogs' meat come from and how it lived and died?


I can't remember the last time I ate meat...now it will be even longer since you brought this up My personal views are just that...my personal views...MY dogs aren't allowed to chase or eat anything that is living and breathing. If I can supply them with food there is no need for them to do so. If I want them to have meat, it will be from the store and not something that I seen alive. I can't even pick out a lobster and eat it when I go to a seafood restaurant....I can't even kill a spider....onto the paper towel and outside they go


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

codmaster said:


> As long as folks don't have a double standard, I am ok with it.
> 
> I.E no whining if their dog or cat gets attacked while outside - just like they allow their pet to attack other animals.


I feel allowing my dog his inherent right to hunt wild verman...verman that are not fed by man, nurtured by, groomed, cuddled or paid for is far from the simplicity of what goes around comes around, and should be alright with. Prey drive is natural, sometimes you have to work with instead of fight against...Man decided what dogs "should" and shouldn't do...


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Bear L said:


> All this talk about not hurting some mice or bunny - do you guys eat meat? Do you know how your meat was raised and killed? Do you know where your dogs' meat come from and how it lived and died?


That's not the point and not even the same thing. **I** am not the one hitting it over the head with a shovel. 
My point is, I can't kill another animal simply because I don't like it. If it's putting me or my dog in danger, so be it. If my my dog kills it, again, so be it. I might not like it, but I understand it.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> I doubt the baby rabbit survived. I used to breed rabbits any kit below 4 weeks will most likely pass without their mothers milk. Rabbits produce a unique milk that not only nourishes the young but provides them with valuable antibodies and builds the immune system. Unless she has a lactating doe at her rescue the baby (especially injured) will just pass imo.


Yeah, I know his odds are slim but the woman was very knowledgeable and she said she deals with bunnies all the time. So hopefully she was able to help him. He wasn't that badly injured. Gunner has pawed at it and caused some scratch marks and it took out some of the fur on its back.

We'll find out on Friday anyway. The lady gave hubby a list of needed items for donation. He's going to stop by and give her a case of rubber gloves from his truck (he's a tool distributor). He'll get an update then.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GatorBytes said:


> I feel allowing my dog his inherent right to hunt wild verman...verman that are not fed by man, nurtured by, groomed, cuddled or paid for is far from the simplicity of what goes around comes around, and should be alright with. Prey drive is natural, sometimes you have to work with instead of fight against...Man decided what dogs "should" and shouldn't do...


 
So you would be ok with your dog being killed by a bigger dog or wolf or mountain lion if it were running around outside? Pack of coyotes?

How about being shot by a hunter if spotted running through the woods? Human "prey drive", eh?


Yea, right!


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

codmaster said:


> So you would be ok with your dog being killed by a bigger dog or wolf or mountain lion if it were running around outside? Pack of coyotes?
> 
> How about being shot by a hunter if spotted running through the woods? Human "prey drive", eh?
> 
> ...


NO. that's my point, I have an emotional attachment to my dog, if it was between him and another dog at large and he was at risk, I'd have no problem assisting him in putting it down. If a hunter shot a dog running through the woods that wasn't a threat to him, then he'd simply be an a-hole. If the little tiny mice belonged to someone and was feeding and caring for, then...I would have a problem


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

They are animals. 

Our pets are animals. Getting mad at a dog or cat because it "didn't kill to survive" is putting human morals onto a dog -- that is far worse than letting a dog be a dog and kill a rabbit or mouse. 

I am not losing sleep over flinging the dying infant mouse. It was orphaned, I know, I trapped/killed its mother and then they staggered out. They were not going to make it, and good riddance. I did not waste shot or stomp on the little thing. One of them was dead (Babs maybe). One I did kill. One I flung outside. I flung it outside so it could be eaten by a bird or snake. 

Birds I really don't care for, but hunting birds, hawks, eagles, and owls are all right I guess. They take out small critters and rodents. Snakes I don't like, but they are good to have around. Again, they get rid of vermin. 

People keep mice alive so they can feed them, alive to their pet snakes. I expected the mouse to die when I flung it, but I could really care less that it did not. ALL wild critters are a threat to me and mine. They carry disease and have fleas and they are a threat. They got to go.

If a coyote pack or wolf or mountain lion killed my dog, because that is what they do, then I would go after them. Not to punish them for killing my dog, but because they are too close for comfort if they are breaking into my yard or home to get at my dogs. But I would not take it personally that they killed my dog. I did have my cat attacked a couple of times by a possom. She ended up dying from it. I did not take out the possom, I did not hold it against the possom for being a possom. My dog killed a raccoon. 

They are animals.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> They are animals.
> 
> ......................
> Birds I really don't care for, but hunting birds, hawks, eagles, and owls are all right I guess. They take out small critters and rodents. Snakes I don't like, but they are good to have around. Again, they get rid of vermin.
> ...


 
Your cat in all probability attacked the possum (possums are NOT predatory) and evidently just took on a little too much and quickly found out that true fact in the wild!. 

We can't blame the overmatched cat just blame the owners of outside cats attacking small wild life that they have absolutely no need to do so (unless maybe you weren't feeding the cat?!)

Sounds like you don't like mice so they are fair game for whatever you feel?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Your cat in all probability attacked the possum (possums are NOT predatory) and evidently just took on a little too much and quickly found out that true fact in the wild!.
> 
> We can't blame the overmatched cat just blame the owners of outside cats attacking small wild life that they have absolutely no need to do so (unless maybe you weren't feeding the cat?!)
> 
> Sounds like you don't like mice so they are fair game for whatever you feel?


Before I took in one of the many cats I have taken in and rehomed....I watched her do a dance with a skunk and a possum. She wasn't trying to hurt them or vice versa, she was definitely playing with their heads, more so the skunk then the possum. The possum and her actually got along pretty well..they ate together. She would approach the skunk, the skunk would put up its tail, the cat would run, then come back and do the same thing 10 times...it was kinda amusing to watch. But most wildlife won't attack unless it feels threatened(skunks, raccoons, possum), I would think that any of the animals mentioned could do serious damage to a cat.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

selzer said:


> They are animals.
> 
> Our pets are animals. Getting mad at a dog or cat because it "didn't kill to survive" is putting human morals onto a dog -- that is far worse than letting a dog be a dog and kill a rabbit or mouse.


I'm not sure who said anything regarding being mad and I'm not going to re-read each post. But I never said, nor was I ever mad at Gunner for killing the baby. I was upset because it was a living breathing animal, but mad? No!
I'm not as nonchalant about killing animals as you are apparently. To each their own.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

As humans we are predators whether we like killing or not. It's all about the "head in sand" thing". My dog kills and eats when he has the chance, I let it be. I kill and eat when I have the chance. When I do not have the chance I buy meat from someone else who has killed!


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Packen said:


> As humans we are predators whether we like killing or not. It's all about the "head in sand" thing". My dog kills and eats when he has the chance, I let it be. I kill and eat when I have the chance. When I do not have the chance I buy meat from someone else who has killed!


Hey there F1, nice to see you. 

I don't think anyone was talking about hunting for food. I was talking about killing just because you don't like "it". And it's not the killing so much as it is the method. 
I don't have a problem with my dog killing something. That is just the nature of the beast.  But I can't get a shovel and bash it's little skull in. If it can be saved, then that's what I'm going to try. And again, if push came to shove and I was being threatened, I wouldn't think twice about killing something. But I won't kill just "because".


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Killing mice is not just because. It is because mice are not good housemates. Sorry, they leave messages everywhere and they are dirty animals. I don't like killing animals, but we have to kill the vermin because they will come right back in. Why on earth ANYONE would try to save a litter of mice is beyond me, unless they have a snake and want the mice a bit bigger. 

Rabbits are delicate creatures and will generally not survive an attack. I would have killed the rabbit, not just because, but because it is more humane to kill something quick than to try and save it and let it suffer on for a day or two before it dies anyway. I find that more inhumane, than putting it out of its pain, and that goes for dogs or cats that are seriously injured, to the extent that the prognosis is very slim. If it is your pet, well I understand doing everything in your power before making the decision, but for dogs that are homeless, if they are seriously injured, I really think that it shouldn't be a question, they should be put down post haste. 

I know that somebody somewhere will say that they had a dog that was burnt badly or broken up by a car, and now it is the love of their life. Yes, yes, there are miracles that happen too. But for every dog that makes it, how many don't? How many had to suffer far longer than they should have in a vain attempt to make them stay alive?


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I live in suburbia - 1/4 acre fenced yard. I LOVE wildlife and have created a wildlife habitat in my little corner of the world. I put in native plants to attract native wildlife. I have a large garden pond with a stream and waterfall. My habitat attracts many birds that I would probably not normally see. I have lots of bees, butterflies and dragonflies. I have several species of frogs and toads. There is a fox family in our area. We have 'possums, rabbits, squirrels and raccoons. My yard brings me a lot of enjoyment.

Sure, nature is going to take its' course. The cycle has all the checks and balances. My dog, however, is not part of the cycle. Cats are not part of the cycle. I could always call my dog off of a rabbit and I always gave the squirrels a good head start, before releasing the dog. I would be very sad if my dog harmed the wildlife.

There is a cat leash law in my county, yet people think it is fine to allow their cats to roam. They complain when their cats are hit by cars, poisoned, or just disappear, but they never seem to blame themselves. It makes me angry when cats kill the wildlife in my yard. I don't blame the cat for being a cat. I blame the owner for being irresponsible. Below is a link to a story about cats killing. Interesting.

House cats kill more critters than thought | firstcoastnews.com

Bottom line for me - Cats and dogs are domesticated. They do not enhance, but only harm wildlife. Wildlife is more at risk from domestic animal diseases than pets from wildlife. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

One of the original primary roles of cats and dogs was vermin / wildlife control. When I was living on a farm there were outdoor cats that kept the barn mice / rats to a minimum and out of the animal feed. There was also a very aggressive american eskimo dog that lived outside 24/7 that kept the coyotes off the sheep and other larger vermin away. 
Vermin spread disease, kill live stock, destroy property and crops and can make your life a living ****.
You dont ever have to worry about running out of rabbits, mice, rats, possum or coyotes to name a few. 
Now I live in suburbia my animals stay inside but I do not condemn those who let their animals out either. Keeping the vermin under control is always a problem.. Just look at the coyote problem Toronto has!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I live in suburbia - 1/4 acre fenced yard. I LOVE wildlife and have created a wildlife habitat in my little corner of the world. I put in native plants to attract native wildlife. I have a large garden pond with a stream and waterfall. My habitat attracts many birds that I would probably not normally see. I have lots of bees, butterflies and dragonflies. I have several species of frogs and toads. There is a fox family in our area. We have 'possums, rabbits, squirrels and raccoons. My yard brings me a lot of enjoyment.
> 
> Sure, nature is going to take its' course. The cycle has all the checks and balances. My dog, however, is not part of the cycle. Cats are not part of the cycle. I could always call my dog off of a rabbit and I always gave the squirrels a good head start, before releasing the dog. I would be very sad if my dog harmed the wildlife.
> 
> ...


My parents have done the same thing. They have 15 acres and the area around their house is designed to attract wildlife, especially blue birds, my mom loves them. Unfortunately people from the city "dump" cats out where they live and the starving cats soon find the blue birds, swallows, and quail. The county doesn't want them and they leave the problem up to the land owner. nobody likes to use poison so they end up shooting them. Sad all the way around.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> One of the original primary roles of cats and dogs was vermin / wildlife control. Cats and dogs are invasive to the environment. When I was living on a farm there were outdoor cats that kept the barn mice / rats to a minimum and out of the animal feed. There was also a very aggressive american eskimo dog that lived outside 24/7 that kept the coyotes off the sheep and other larger vermin away.
> Vermin spread disease, kill live stock, destroy property and crops and can make your life a living ****.
> You dont ever have to worry about running out of rabbits, mice, rats, possum or coyotes to name a few. There was a thread posted here in January "Rabbit Shortage". Look it up. There may not be a shortage worldwide, but I can tell you that I currently have NO rabbits in my yard.
> Now I live in suburbia my animals stay inside but I do not condemn those who let their animals out either. Keeping the vermin under control is always a problem.. Just look at the coyote problem Toronto has!


 I do condemn those that allow their cats to roam. In my area, it is AGAINST the law. I think they have no respect for their neighbors and no concern for their pets.

If cats only killed mice and rats, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that. I am tired of finding dead rabbits, woodpeckers, and song birds on MY property. 

Here is another link about cats and wildlife. It includes diseases that cats carry. http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/positionstatements/28-Feral & Free Ranging Cats.pdf


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

GSDGunner said:


> I'm not sure who said anything regarding being mad and I'm not going to re-read each post. But I never said, nor was I ever mad at Gunner for killing the baby. I was upset because it was a living breathing animal, but mad? No!
> I'm not as nonchalant about killing animals as you are apparently. To each their own.


I understand that. I hate the fact that Lucky kills something he doesn't eat b/c his prey drive. However those cute little bunnies and those young deers have eaten my lettuce and cabbage a few times. Therefore I am ambivalent unless its the deer who ate my six beautiful cabbages last summer or the bunnies who got my lettuce.I also really try to stop Lucky from chasing bunnies. I felt angry w/ my husband who refused to burn a brush/wood pile and when he finally did he displaced alot of small critters.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I do condemn those that allow their cats to roam. In my area, it is AGAINST the law. I think they have no respect for their neighbors and no concern for their pets.
> 
> If cats only killed mice and rats, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that. I am tired of finding dead rabbits, woodpeckers, and song birds on MY property.
> 
> Here is another link about cats and wildlife. It includes diseases that cats carry. http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/positionstatements/28-Feral & Free Ranging Cats.pdf


My dog's face was clamshelled by a cat hiding in a culvert, my dog sniffing along, his head came up slightly - I don't allow him to stick his face in these things because of wild life...he is very prey drivin, but this day he was so casual (winds must have been behind - I know my dog and if sensed animal, he would have been more forthright and I would have tugged him away). Just as I paused before he could get too close to opening a black cat lunged out and latched onto his face...G snagged the cats belly, tearing it open (apparently), As I tried to get both to let go I saw my dogs mouth open, but the cat wouldn't let go...so, I had to step on it's chest...didn't know if had my dogs eyes...I applied pressure gradually until it did....it then ran up tree. I booted home to clean up my dog...spent the next two days finding punctures and aggrevating to bleed and let out bacteria...tokk me 45mins to clean him up and stop the bleeding. I had to start a new job theat very morning.

That night on my dogs walk the owner of cat tracked me down and threatened legal action if I didn't pay the $2000 vet bill....I told him it was unfortunate, but I was not responsible - the cat wasn't on his property and I had my dog on a legal 6ft. leash...he thought I was at fault...he terrorized me for an hour tried to follow me home to get address to serve me, had to get neighbours to call police. My dog was fine, but I wasn't...stupid at large cats.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

GatorBytes, How horrible for you and your dog. My community has a yahoo group and I am one of the most outspoken people regarding loose cats. Many people agree with me, but the people who allow their cats to run free just don't get it. You try to point out the dangers - dogs, poisoning, cars. They are clueless and the cats suffer.

Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. I am very passionate about wildlife AND rabbits. I have two domestic rabbits and beg to differ with the people who say they are stupid. I assure you they are not.

As to the OP, I am very sorry for your experience. You are obviously an animal lover and it hurt you to see your dog kill the bunny. It wasn't your fault, or your dogs'.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Bear L said:


> All this talk about not hurting some mice or bunny - do you guys eat meat? Do you know how your meat was raised and killed? Do you know where your dogs' meat come from and how it lived and died?


Well....your lamb probably came from our farm here in Australia  

Can't believe a wildlife rescue would waste resources on a rabbit....here most survive by donations....not sure people would be happy with them spending it on VERMIN.....


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I can't remember the last time I ate meat...now it will be even longer since you brought this up My personal views are just that...my personal views...MY dogs aren't allowed to chase or eat anything that is living and breathing. If I can supply them with food there is no need for them to do so. If I want them to have meat, it will be from the store and not something that I seen alive. I can't even pick out a lobster and eat it when I go to a seafood restaurant....I can't even kill a spider....onto the paper towel and outside they go


It is funny to read different views on things. I respect your view on this but it did make me chuckle a bit as our 4 year old is different due to where he is raised. When we get our lambs into tail/mark they are very small and cute but our son just talks about roast lamb with gravy. When we have piglets which are so so cute our son helps with all their care but really just sees them as little roasts walking around on four legs.....our city cousins are horrified but that is just how it is for him and we think that is just fine too.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> My dog's face was clamshelled by a cat hiding in a culvert, my dog sniffing along, his head came up slightly - I don't allow him to stick his face in these things because of wild life...he is very prey drivin, but this day he was so casual (winds must have been behind - I know my dog and if sensed animal, he would have been more forthright and I would have tugged him away). Just as I paused before he could get too close to opening a black cat lunged out and latched onto his face...G snagged the cats belly, tearing it open (apparently), As I tried to get both to let go I saw my dogs mouth open, but the cat wouldn't let go...so, I had to step on it's chest...didn't know if had my dogs eyes...I applied pressure gradually until it did....it then ran up tree. I booted home to clean up my dog...spent the next two days finding punctures and aggrevating to bleed and let out bacteria...tokk me 45mins to clean him up and stop the bleeding. I had to start a new job theat very morning.
> 
> That night on my dogs walk the owner of cat tracked me down and threatened legal action if I didn't pay the $2000 vet bill....I told him it was unfortunate, but I was not responsible - the cat wasn't on his property and I had my dog on a legal 6ft. leash...he thought I was at fault...he terrorized me for an hour tried to follow me home to get address to serve me, had to get neighbours to call police. My dog was fine, but I wasn't...stupid at large cats.


Did anything become of this (legal action)?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Nigel said:


> Did anything become of this (legal action)?


Not so far...It happened mid-may...he has to go through the freedom of information act to get my info to serve me. Perhaps once the cat was o.k. he calmed, or maybe talked to his lawyer and was told futile...I think he has 6 yrs to make a claim or not sure, if wins it's six yrs. to collect (???)

He told me the cat had emerg. surgery on it's belly and a punctured lung...a mutual aquaintance said...I don't understand how the cat got the injuries where it did...I said...because it clamshelled my dogs face...my dog didn't garb
it's back end while it tried to flee...or by the head or neck...don't know too many cats that lay on their back and allow a dog to grab it's belly

And....the cat is back at large again....I checked A.C. and they said he's at fault


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> Not so far...It happened mid-may...he has to go through the freedom of information act to get my info to serve me. Perhaps once the cat was o.k. he calmed, or maybe talked to his lawyer and was told futile...I think he has 6 yrs to make a claim or not sure, if wins it's six yrs. to collect (???)
> 
> He told me the cat had emerg. surgery on it's belly and a punctured lung...a mutual aquaintance said...I don't understand how the cat got the injuries where it did...I said...because it clamshelled my dogs face...my dog didn't garb
> it's back end while it tried to flee...or by the head or neck...don't know too many cats that lay on their back and allow a dog to grab it's belly
> ...


I would think so. You had your dog leashed and under your control and the cat was " at large" should be case closed imop.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

GSDGunner said:


> Hey there F1, nice to see you.
> 
> I don't think anyone was talking about hunting for food. I was talking about killing just because you don't like "it". And it's not the killing so much as it is the method.
> I don't have a problem with my dog killing something. That is just the nature of the beast.  But I can't get a shovel and bash it's little skull in. If it can be saved, then that's what I'm going to try. And again, if push came to shove and I was being threatened, I wouldn't think twice about killing something. But I won't kill just "because".


I can see that it is ok to eat baby back ribs at Chili's and get all upset about...


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Stevenzachsmom said:


> I do condemn those that allow their cats to roam. In my area, it is AGAINST the law. I think they have no respect for their neighbors and no concern for their pets.
> 
> If cats only killed mice and rats, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with that. I am tired of finding dead rabbits, woodpeckers, and song birds on MY property.
> 
> Here is another link about cats and wildlife. It includes diseases that cats carry. http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/positionstatements/28-Feral%20&%20Free%20Ranging%20Cats.pdf


 
Well you can have some of our rabbits, Im sorry rabbits are not at risk and we have plenty of cats around here that are on the loose. I dont see the local wildlife dropping dead from disease. Sure it can happen but is it a pervasive problem? I think not. There are many invasive species in North America, feral cats are not the only one. Nor is anyone suggesting that people should let their dogs out to run feral. This discussion is about how people feel when their dog kills wildlife, vermin specifically. I say the eco system can handle it..it has been for hundereds of years.

If you have a rabbit shortage transplant some it shouldnt be too hard...but careful what you wish for.

If the feral cat population is out of control in your area perhaps your local community should begin eliminating the surplus. 

Every community and region is different. I know we have a rabbit, deer and coyote problem but restrictions on hunters prevents these populations from being culled properly despite all the feral cats.. Slightly North of us the Black Bear problem is getting out of control as well.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sparra said:


> It is funny to read different views on things. I respect your view on this but it did make me chuckle a bit as our 4 year old is different due to where he is raised. When we get our lambs into tail/mark they are very small and cute but our son just talks about roast lamb with gravy. When we have piglets which are so so cute our son helps with all their care but really just sees them as little roasts walking around on four legs.....our city cousins are horrified but that is just how it is for him and we think that is just fine too.


 
How do you think that your son would feel about dog on his plate? Just a different type of roast?

A very popular dish in some cultures.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Blitzkrieg1 said:


> Well you can have some of our rabbits, Im sorry rabbits are not at risk and we have plenty of cats around here that are on the loose. I dont see the local wildlife dropping dead from disease. Sure it can happen but is it a pervasive problem? I think not. There are many invasive species in North America, feral cats are not the only one. Nor is anyone suggesting that people should let their dogs out to run feral. This discussion is about how people feel when their dog kills wildlife, vermin specifically. I say the eco system can handle it..it has been for hundereds of years.


Obviously you know much more than all of the wildlife experts. Birds aren't in danger of becoming extinct. Heck, that Eastern Screech owl expert I discussed nesting boxes with said he lost 12 owls last breeding season to CATS - some of which were breeding females. Why would he lie like that? Did you even read any of the links I posted or pull up the old thread about the rabbit shortage? That was due to disease that was wiping out rabbits. I disagree that the ecosystem can handle it or that it has been handling it for hundreds of years. We have lost MANY species over hundreds of years.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

codmaster said:


> How do you think that your son would feel about dog on his plate? Just a different type of roast?
> 
> A very popular dish in some cultures.


If it were a popular dish in our culture then he would have no problems eating it if mum and dad did just as those children in cultures who are served dog on a regular basis would have no problems with it. 
If you are raised in a culture where eating lamb. beef, pork, chicken etc is the norm then you eat it just like if you are raised in a culture where you eat dog, cat, horse etc you eat it. My 4yr old would only balk at dog because everyone around him would balk at dog.....it is learned.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Our animal control will do absolutely nothing about a cat because they say it is not a domestic animal. Yupp, so that is how I got my outside cat. It crawled through the chain link fence and started eating my dogs' food. I tried everything to get rid of the cat, but it was not a domestic animal, so I took it to the vet and got it its shots, and got in spayed, and kept it outside.

That I know about, it got two moles, two bats, two blue jays, and probably a whole lot more before the possom got it. 

Anyone who says a possom isn't about to fight, or isn't likely to start crap is out of their mind, sorry. The possom came and set up housekeeping in MY shed, where MY cat was fed. It took offense at MY cat coming into MY shed, and attacked her, not once, but twice.

I could not have the cat inside as I have asthma and cats are much worse than dogs for me. I removed all carpeting after the last inside cat and vowed no more inside cats, ever, and I have been a lot more healthy. I did not buy the cat, or bring the cat home. I did everything to try and get rid of the cat. It was my cat, because I did feed it and I did vet it, but I have to say, I really was more of a guardian of the cat rather than an owner. And not very good at that as the possom got her. 

Still, outside cats around here have an average lifespan of about 2 years, and Goblin lived 8. 

Wildlife do bring ticks, fleas, and diseases like Lepto and Giardia. Living out in the country, outside cats are the norm, they live in and around barns, and they do vermin control. That is their purpose. There is no leash law for cats around here. 

In fact there is a pretty extensive feral cat community in town. People put out bulk feed for them, and they spay and release, but there are still a lot of cats, no owners. 

Goblin was not feral. She was a domestic cat that someone dumped. But she lived outside, hunted, liked my dogs, liked me, and did really good when I did take her to the vet -- wasn't afraid, didn't scar the vet. 

There is no shortage of rabbits here, or deer, or groundhogs, mice, rats, bats, moles, raccoons, skunks, or possoms. Snakes, spiders, bees, wasps, hornets, fake lady bugs, frogs, toads, and turtles are abundant as well. There are a cajilian birds as well, Canadian geese and turkey vultures, wild turkeys which have pretty much removed the habitat for grouse. I am just not fussed about wildlife. They have somehow made it to this point without my interfering. The problem with interfering is that when you stack the deck in the favor of say the wild turkeys, you inadvertently murder off something like grouse. Now we have an abundance of turkeys and no grouse -- I haven't heard that cats had anything to do with that.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

selzer said:


> Our animal control will do absolutely nothing about a cat because they say it is not a domestic animal. Yupp, so that is how I got my outside cat. It crawled through the chain link fence and started eating my dogs' food. I tried everything to get rid of the cat, but it was not a domestic animal, so I took it to the vet and got it its shots, and got in spayed, and kept it outside.
> 
> That I know about, it got two moles, two bats, two blue jays, and probably a whole lot more before the possom got it.
> 
> ...


Wish more people thought in such logical terms, we would have more true conservationists and less tree huggers.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

Packen said:


> I can see that it is ok to eat baby back ribs at Chili's and get all upset about...


 What? This has nothing to do with killing for food. I've said that over and over. Why are you harping on that?
Did you even read my post that you quoted? Where am I getting all upset over killing for food?


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

sparra said:


> Can't believe a wildlife rescue would waste resources on a rabbit....here most survive by donations....not sure people would be happy with them spending it on VERMIN.....


A rabbit is "wildlife" is it not?
The rescue that took it is Wildlife Aid. I couldn't find a website for them, but here's one in the UK. Isn't that a rabbit on this page? 
Volunteers | Wildlife Aid


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## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

In response to the orig post. Tazor did the same thing but it was a fairly good size rabbit. I was surprised. He killed it in seconds and he kept moving from spot to spot so I couldnt get it. I feel really bad. I only walk him leashed now in our yard. Sometimes deer jump our 5' chainlink and eat in our yard. I cant imagine if he hurt a deer. They arent overly concerned with our presence.

The entire rabbit was consumed, but he seems fine. It was horrible to see..just keep a good thought for the baby rabbit.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

GSDGunner said:


> A rabbit is "wildlife" is it not?


In North America it is. But Australia has a terrible problem with them, which is why sparra called them vermin. Any time an animal doesn't have the natural predators it needs to keep the population under control, it's a bad situation. We have too many deer where I live. In the 'olden days' the cougars, bears and wolves would have taken care of them. Most people love them until they hit one with their car and have a change of heart.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Rabbits are invasive to Australia, which is my whole point. They have a problem with them, because they don't belong there. They are native in the US and have many natural predators. We have European Starlings, which are aggressive and take nesting sites from native birds. Invasive species can be devastating to native wildlife. I don't understand the denial.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

As for deer, I think I am on #6, all killed with one vehicle or another. They are giant rodents, and I would only keep my dogs from ripping them apart because a deer actually can do damage to a dog. In our area they are not so bad because people do hunt them, in my sister's area they are all over. we count them. Seventeen of them on her postage stamp lawn there were. Poop, you can't walk around the block with the kids without dodging deer droppings.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

GSDGunner said:


> A rabbit is "wildlife" is it not?
> The rescue that took it is Wildlife Aid. I couldn't find a website for them, but here's one in the UK. Isn't that a rabbit on this page?
> Volunteers | Wildlife Aid


Over here there is a difference between "wildlife" and "native wildlife". Rabbits are an introduced species and have a devastating effect on vegetation, soils etc which is why we have viruses which have been released into the populations to control them. We poison them here on our farm as they are just out of control at times. Hence why they would not have resources wasted on them at wildlife rescues......I am not 100% sure but I think it is actual against the law NOT to euthanase them if they are brought into vet clinics etc injured.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

sparra said:


> It is funny to read different views on things. I respect your view on this but it did make me chuckle a bit as our 4 year old is different due to where he is raised. When we get our lambs into tail/mark they are very small and cute but our son just talks about roast lamb with gravy. When we have piglets which are so so cute our son helps with all their care but really just sees them as little roasts walking around on four legs.....our city cousins are horrified but that is just how it is for him and we think that is just fine too.


I respect your view too, but to be honest I avoid most discussions like this, because I'm so against it My 20 year old son would be horrified if I went and got a baby pig, had him take care of it, then gave it to him for dinner. I think he would never speak to me again I consider myself lucky to be able to go to the store if I want a steak or a burger and I'd probably starve if I had to get it on my own I strongly believe that lots of animals that were able to roam free are losing their homes to houses being built,etc. In my mind, they were on that land first and I will respect them and their lives..I decided to build my home where theres was....I might not like what some of them eat, but its a part of nature when it happens that way. My favorite thing is when people build new homes, then complain that the deer are eating their flowers...well duh what do you think they are going to eat? I would love to wake up to find a family of deer in my yard...it sure beats living in the city and waking up to gunshots


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I live in the country and we have gunshots at night and during the day, but it is usually nothing to worry about. Just neighbors shooting squirrels, or neighbors drinking, partying, and shooting the gun off because they can. I don't like to waste my ammo; so I only shoot at living critters. 

I actually was here before the critters. I am older then they are and I have a right to live too. 

Kids out my way raise all sorts of critters for the county fair. The kids that raise beef name them stuff like T-bone, and Rib Eye. They hope that they win because the winners are generally bought by butcher shops for a good penny. 

And yes, they eat Moosey Burgers, when the critter is butchered for their own freezers. There is nothing disgusting with being raised to raise animals for the pot. They know when the animals are born that that is what they are for.

I take the girls to the farm park and we discuss chicken and pig and beef as well as milk and eggs. They understand that animals will become dinner. There is nothing wrong with that.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

selzer said:


> I live in the country and we have gunshots at night and during the day, but it is usually nothing to worry about. Just neighbors shooting squirrels, or neighbors drinking, partying, and shooting the gun off because they can. I don't like to waste my ammo; so I only shoot at living critters.
> 
> I actually was here before the critters. I am older then they are and I have a right to live too.
> 
> ...


I never said there was. It's just not my lifestyle or one I would choose...that is what makes the world go round Maybe its because I was born and raised in the city. But if you hear gunshots where I come from, you either duck or end up in the morgue. Before houses were built the land belonged to the critters, you are not older then them(that is a compliment) They were on this land way before we came along and starting building on it. There is no reason to shoot critters where I come from...in fact it will get someone thrown in jail. Its just a matter of where and how a person grew up...I can bet that if I came to where you lived and vice versa...it would be a learning experience for both of us


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I live in the country and when I hear gun shots at night it is usually someone protecting their livestock. Recently we've been able to add bear and cougar to the local wildlife. 

Down the road from me a bit where my parents live a lot of people from the city have bought and built a weekend house or a retirement home. First thing they seem to want to do is eradicate all wildlife, for some reason it seems squirrels are particularly threatening to them.

I don't understand this. You buy a few wooded acres that backs up or is near a river and you want to kill all squirrels? 

Last week a few of them were hunting down a rattler that was last seen escaping toward my property. (How a group of armed men did not manage to shoot a snake kind of scares the heck out of me) and one of them actually called me to warn me they thought it was on my back field. 

I thought it was a joke at first and then all I could say is well there's probably more then one in that field..... He asked if I was going to go back there and look for it and was quite surprised when I said no. (I'm going to check a few acres for a snake?) and then asked if they could come hunt him down. I think I offended him when I told him no......

Don't get me wrong I would dispatch any snake or animal in my fenced in area that I thought could be a threat to me or my dogs but a wide open field that I don't use?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Betty said:


> I live in the country and when I hear gun shots at night it is usually someone protecting their livestock. Recently we've been able to add bear and cougar to the local wildlife.
> 
> Down the road from me a bit where my parents live a lot of people from the city have bought and built a weekend house or a retirement home. First thing they seem to want to do is eradicate all wildlife, for some reason it seems squirrels are particularly threatening to them.
> 
> ...


 
Their behavior certainly must seem odd, doesn't it?

Wonder how odd a country person might seem to an inner city resident if they came to live in their neighborhood?

Different environments, heh?


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

I've been considered odd in most environments that I have lived in. Especially those where I struggled to learn the language.:crazy:

If by some cruel twist of fate I ended up in the inner city I would not jump on my bulldozer and start demo-ing tall buildings......No matter how much I wanted to. 

Shucks, now I'm going to have nightmares of being surrounded by buildings, concrete, traffic and noise. <shudder>


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## harmony (May 30, 2002)

I sometimes can't wait to get a beagle so I can have a garden. My kids get upset if they think a dog killed a rabbit, heck I just tell them I think it was a rat! further more I would raise my own beef and pork if I didn't think my kids would try and make it a pet..


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

harmony said:


> I would raise my own beef and pork if I didn't think my kids would try and make it a pet..



Haha....yes that is the challenge!!! Here our policy is if it has a name it doesn't get eaten!!!


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## harmony (May 30, 2002)

sparra said:


> Haha....yes that is the challenge!!! Here our policy is if it has a name it doesn't get eaten!!!


 That is really funny, around here we call squirrels/tree rats and I swear if my kids see one more then once it might have a name, lol. I hope the super market doesn't run out of meat


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## rockhead (Jul 8, 2007)

Read the OP and a few replies... you have nothing to worry about. Your GSD is a hunter and was just doing what he is programmed to do.

Reminds me of a funny story....

I was mowing around the big pine in my front yard and flushed out a small rabbit. It ran in to the middle of the yard. Eich saw it and immediately charged. There was no way I would have been able to intercept him. I cringed and watched as the 110-pound dog zeroed in on this helpless, cowering little baby bunny. As Eich got to within striking distance he suddenly stopped. The rabbit tried to disappear by folding its ears back and pressing itself low to the ground. The dog inched forward and sniffed it a few times. The rabbit bounded a few feet, then stopped. The dog pursued, the repeated the above behavior. This went on for a while before I figured it out; you see, every other rabbit Eich ever chased had gotten away. This one never ran. The dog was clearly confused. 

I walked over and took Eich by the collar as the bunny ran away. The dog watched and screamed as if I was skinning him alive. 

Screw him. He had his chance and blew it!


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

rockhead said:


> Read the OP and a few replies... you have nothing to worry about. Your GSD is a hunter and was just doing what he is programmed to do.


Oh, I know that and am not worried. I just don't like it. 

I had him at the vet yesterday. I ran out of his heartworm meds and he was due Sept 1st. But he needed his yearly heartworm test and they wouldn't refill the med until he was tested.
He had a full exam while there and everything was great. And he tested negative, which I expected anyway.

No ill effects from his "breakfast" either.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Betty said:


> I live in the country and when I hear gun shots at night it is usually someone protecting their livestock. Recently we've been able to add bear and cougar to the local wildlife.
> 
> Down the road from me a bit where my parents live a lot of people from the city have bought and built a weekend house or a retirement home. First thing they seem to want to do is eradicate all wildlife, for some reason it seems squirrels are particularly threatening to them.
> 
> ...


My neighbors on the one side have been there longer than me, about 20 years I think, they shoot squirrels, probably because they get into the house and chew the wiring. They lived in the village before they moved out there. The neighbors further down look at squirrel as a delicacy, and I think my neighbor takes them over there when he shoots them.

My neighbors on the other side are transplants from the city, I think. He is middle-aged but this is his first house. I hope shooting at 1:30 in the morning gets old soon. I am in no position to complain, as I come home between 12 and 2AM and then feed all my dogs who greet me continuously until their dishes are full. 

I had the little girls out there over labor day, and we slept in a tent in the front yard. They howled at the train and once or twice 1 or 2 started barking (probably at the neighbor's loose lab) but they certainly weren't bad.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

llombardo said:


> I never said there was. It's just not my lifestyle or one I would choose...that is what makes the world go round Maybe its because I was born and raised in the city. But if you hear gunshots where I come from, you either duck or end up in the morgue. *Before houses were built the land belonged to the critters, you are not older then them*(that is a compliment) They were on this land way before we came along and starting building on it. There is no reason to shoot critters where I come from...in fact it will get someone thrown in jail. Its just a matter of where and how a person grew up...I can bet that if I came to where you lived and vice versa...it would be a learning experience for both of us


No, I disagree. Critters are evolving and have gone extinct and new critters come into being and are discovered. Critters migrate to where food for them is more plentiful. We are a critter. I do not believe man should communally commit suicide because they have no right to do what most of the critters do. One type of critter will often cause another type of critter to move on or die out. Predators will often try and kill other predators. We are predators/omnivores, and there is nothing wrong with not wanting mice and rats, or spiders, or snakes where we are living.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

The saying "breed like rabbits" was made because rabbits are EXTREMELY prolific.

Females can get pregnant by 6 months of age.

Females ovulate every other day.

Mating season is usually 9 months long but rabbits can breed all year.

Litter size is usually somewhere between 6-12.

Gestation is 31 days.

Females can get pregnant 1 DAY after giving birth.

So, if a 6 month old rabbit gets pregnant on January first and all the stars aling and everything goes perfectly - allowing an average litter size of, let's say, 8 - she can produce 88 children. 

If half of those children are females and everything goes perfectly then that single female will also have produced 160 grand-children.

That's one rabbit in one season being responsible for producing over *TWO HUNDRED* new rabbits.


The only thing I wqrry about when it comes to rabbits is that my dogs make a quick kill (so the rabbit doesn't suffer much) and then I watch for evidence of tapeworms from the fleas that rabbits carry.

Which brings up another point - rabbits and squirrels are major carriers of fleas. For those that are constantly fighting the battle against the dreaded flea you can thank your local wildlife.


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