# Salmonella, dog kisses & kitchen clean up. Help!



## looneygirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Ok I am in my 1st month feeding raw (chicken only for now). I have a 24 week ok GS and 34 week old pomchi mix. Both love the raw chicken and bones and are doing well so far. I am feeding once a day, with can & kibble. I have read lots opinions spoken with my vet and am getting educated from BARF sites. My problem is the fear of salmonella, this is also why my vet does not like raw. I hate the clean up and I feel I spend so much time cleaning up with bleach, my hands are raw from washing with bleach. I am disinfecting the sink counter and other items every day . I am kind of a germ freak and usually take caution but I have never exposed my self daily to raw chicken like I am now. I have also tried to make up prepared frozen bags for a days meal for about 10 days thinking it would cut down on kitchen cleaning but after feeding them I still need to disinfect the sink/counters etc.. It is wearing me out. Then I worry when they come in the house after they eat, they are on the furniture & beds and giving us kisses and I know that they both use their fron paws to hold the meat/bones. My husband wants me to switch to dog food because of the hassle I am doing to feed raw. Any help on clean up or similar experiences with a salmonella worry to help me make up my mind. 

Thanks.
Looneygirl


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Great questions. The ONLY reason I only do limited raw feeding is because of the big mess. I often wonder if raw feeders have a special tile lined room with a big drain in the middle... ya know?


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

My wife is kinda a germaphobe also and feeding raw was stressing her out!! That one of the reasons we went to a high quality dry food mixed with canned food. Unless you feed your pup outside its very messy!!


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## looneygirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Ok so far you all agree with the germ mess clean up. I feed them outside but I have to prepare and wash everthing we touch or contacts the chicken, so I just bleach it all. I thought someone was going to give some good news that would help us germ freaks continue with raw feeding. I may go to high quality pet food, but after eating raw chicken for a month they stick up their nose at cooked (boiled chicken breasts) and may eat a few bites of left over grilled chicken breast. I guess they will eat cooked if they get hungry, they are eating some of the puppy chow before cooked chicken or store brand can food. I will be changing to higher quaility dog food for other meals because I am gettting more educated about common store dog food. Well time to give the kids their samonella for the noon meal. Yuk!! Thanks for the help.


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

That is exactly why I don't feed raw. I am a germaphobe I guess you could say. Any time I cut meat you can see me with the bleach water for about a half hour afterwards. There is no reason that the dog could not transmit salmonella from its body to yours, like from it's paws or face. In food safety classes people learn about cross contamination all the time and it would be exactly that. And wouldn't they be able to pass that in their poop? My cousin just had salmonella and had a fever for 2 weeks and was throwing up for 2 weeks after that until they found out what it was! It was terrible.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

My "remedy" is partial raw.

I posted this on another thread a few minutes ago:

I feed Orijen grain free and supplement a bit of raw most days. I find that raw is manageable (for me) given in smaller quantities, smaller pieces while the main food remains the good kibble. We get great poops and very shiny coats on that program.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Don't come to my house. I'll get out the ground turkey, hand feed some to the dogs for a snack and not wash my hand before openning another cabinet, and wipe my hands off on a towel. I guess I'm just going to die.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

BlackPuppy said:


> Don't come to my house. I'll get out the ground turkey, hand feed some to the dogs for a snack and not wash my hand before openning another cabinet, and wipe my hands off on a towel. I guess I'm just going to die.


 
You must get the sqwirts pretty often!!:rofl:


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

BlackPuppy said:


> Don't come to my house. I'll get out the ground turkey, hand feed some to the dogs for a snack and not wash my hand before openning another cabinet, and wipe my hands off on a towel. I guess I'm just going to die.


ROFLMAO... Too funny! The germphobes won't like this, but I truly believe that we need some exposure to germs so that we have strong immune systems. My fiance is a germ/clean freak and I'm not. Seen too many healthy people all over Europe and other countries that hang their meat out all day, etc.  Btw, I almost never get ill.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

We are seriously considering switching to raw in Sept. when Bella turns a year. We had ordered green tripe when we first got Mia and we were surprised that is a) had a horrific smell and b) drew a zillion flies and some yellow jackets. I like the BARF diet better-I can't foresee a bad smell-but if there are the flies and bees like we saw with the green tripe we will go back to our homemade food (which they both are doing well on). As for disinfecting, I planned to buy placemats and feed in thier bowls.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

BlackPuppy said:


> Don't come to my house. I'll get out the ground turkey, hand feed some to the dogs for a snack and not wash my hand before openning another cabinet, and wipe my hands off on a towel. I guess I'm just going to die.


LOL, I'd feel right at home. 

The fear of germs is quite cultural. It has been hyped out of proportion by the media and used as an advertising and marketing tool for all those anti-bacterial products being sold on TV. 

Salmonella is everywhere in our environment (as are a host of other germs). In the air, in the ground. Our immune systems, and that of the dogs, can deal with it just fine. Over-use of bleach and other cleaners and anti-bacterial products can cause a lot of issues with killing good bacteria in our environment that protect us from bad bacteria. 

Germaphobes: relax!!! When was the last time anyone actually knew of someone who got salmonella poisonning from handling raw meat? Most probably a very rare event. 

In our society, there is often a large gap between perceived dangers and real risks - ie: people are deadly afraid of some natural bacteria in that is harmless in 99.9999% of the cases, and marketers will really play up the risk as minimal as it is, just to sell a product. Commercials are designed to prey on people's fears and re-inforce them. 

I feed raw. I do not go nuts on the cleaning and the disinfecting - so far, I'm still alive  !


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

I had a friend who would not eat cookie dough because it had raw egg in it. Actually she said, "IT HAS RAW EGG IN IT!!!!!!!!!!" LOL! As children we always licked the bowl and the beaters.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Relayer said:


> I truly believe that we need some exposure to germs so that we have strong immune systems.


I also believe this. I rarely get sick. 

Actually, I wish I could find this, but a study showed that lower socio-economic children get sick much less often and with lesser severity that the more well off children for this very reason.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2490589/proof_that_early_exposure_to_germs.html?cat=5


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

lol. Relayer. I also agree that we need some exposure to germs to build up our immunity. I feed raw, and he eats in his crate. I clean up the crate after he eats.... most nights.... with soap and water. I too make every meal into a bag at one time and then only defrost them one at a time. I also feed them partially frozen to make him take a longer time to eat, but when I take them out they go from the bag to his tray and then out to his eating crate. Never hits the counter. 

Someone that cooks for their family would be handling the same amount, or more of raw meat daily. So exposure from preparation of food is not any greater than when handling any other raw foods for human consumption. 

The food on the paws and on the mouths it true.... but think of this.... what else do those paws and mouth touch?

Paw walk on poop, on dirt, mud, bugs, pee (mine actually hits his front legs when he pees...yuk). His mouth will hold raw bones and meat sure, but also, he cleans him bum, he clean his man parts, he puts his nose up to other dogs butts.


So in the grand scheme of things.... raw chicken is the least of your worries. Also if you google it there has been numerous cases of kibble being recalled due to salmonella. So if you are worried about him getting salmonella, then well.... if I am feeding in the same quality of meat (or close), then I think I have better odds of staying healthy than if I didn't.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

Good grief! You people would die within seconds of coming in my house! I think there's a bottle of bleach near my washer in the basement for clothes that's been there for years and I never use. Other than just some general wiping down the counters with soapy water when I'm done, I don't do anything special for cleanup, just like food prep for people. 

You never hear of anyone that feeds raw coming down with salmonella. If I or a family member were immuno-suppressed, it could be possible, but otherwise, you would really have to try and get sick.

If you really can't deal with the thought of germs, don't feed raw. It's not the end of the world if you can't. You can always feed home-cooked or a very good kibble and your dog will do just as well.


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## dianefbarfield (Apr 12, 2010)

I don't feed raw but if I did I would use the Clorox Anywhere surface spray. It is safe even if it gets on food. Of course, you can make your own. Just a spray bottle of water with a teaspoon of bleach. 

I too am very careful with germs. My son runs a restaurant kitchen and they have separate knife racks for meat and vegetables and separate cutting surfaces.

One idea is to get one of those inexpensive outdoor sinks that you sit on a deck and they hook up to your garden hose. If you had a "beer fridge" too then you could store your meat there and wash up without going into your kitchen.


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## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

Elaine said:


> Good grief! You people would die within seconds of coming in my house! I think there's a bottle of bleach near my washer in the basement for clothes that's been there for years and I never use. Other than just some general wiping down the counters with soapy water when I'm done, I don't do anything special for cleanup, just like food prep for people.


 
I agree. I don't even own bleach! I consider myself a mild germaphobe but with everything else those cute little paws and noses touch....raw food germs is the least of my worries.

I feed raw. I just spray my counters with 409 like I do when I prepare my own food. Heavens....I don't even wash Ava's dish but every other day!!!


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm with GSDSunshine. If you prepare chicken and other meats for your family and/or self, what's the difference in your kitchen??? I can see issues with the actual feeding area, possibly. I don't know, the chicken we humans eat here starts out raw.


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## looneygirl (Jun 9, 2010)

JudnRichGood luck on the bowls, my two eat dog food in the house from a bowl - but chicken with bones is different they both drag their lunch off the patio and out to the grass/dirt in my yard. They revert back to the natural state and it is all over their face and they really get into the food use their paws to hold while they chew & eat and they will not bring it back on the patio. Tell me if you can get it to work. 

Hey Relayer, I do agree about exposer and really do not mind most nature germs. I think nothing of picking up a earth worm or holding our pet parakeet or when my children had mice/rats/hamsters etc.. But in my old age I am maybe I am just getting paranoid. 

My father in law has made fun of me for 20 years because I will not drink after anyone, but I will let my dog kiss me on the mouth. He just loves to tell me when he see me love them or they lick my face -“Hey they licked their privates!” So really I am just as bad as Black Puppy just receive my germs in a different manner.


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## Konozis1 (Jun 17, 2010)

1.4 million cases in the USA, thats .51%...a very high number.

The quality of meat (mainly chicken) is very low in the U.S.

Zoonosis actually occurs more than most people think, a couple of years ago when there was a recall on kibble b/c salmonella 65 people got infected.

If you feed raw, I believe, if you are clean you will be fine... unless you are an infant, very old, or have a weak immune system.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Lol gsdsunshine!!!!


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

GSDSunshine said:


> Someone that cooks for their family would be handling the same amount, or more of raw meat daily. So exposure from preparation of food is not any greater than when handling any other raw foods for human consumption.
> 
> The food on the paws and on the mouths it true.... but think of this.... what else do those paws and mouth touch?


As a raw feeder I just wanted to add support to what all the other BARFers said....If restaurant's cleaned their kitchens as well as the OP does, we wouldn't have health inspectors closing them down all the time!!!....most people don't clean up that much after their own family meals....lol....

OP, you may want to become a member of the freezer brigade and get urself a doggie freezer....only prepping for 10 days or so is one heck of a lot of work to under take....I feed my 80 pounder raw, but only package every few months.....I also am not a fan of bleach, I do use vinegar and water. Mine is trained to eat only on his towel, his AM is MM so in his bowl. You pick up the towel, put it in the wash....cleaned up!.....I think it is a matter of getting urself into a routine, I know when I first started it seemed overwhelming.....

Good luck to you, I hope you stick with it....


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Feeding the meat partially frozen will cut down on the juices.
I have a fridge in the garage for the dog food, and DH's beer. He makes me keep it clean or I don't get to use it. 
I have a tray on the bottom shelf to catch all drips and clean it regularly. Most everything is in plastic containers and of course the tripe is just plain stinky, even sealed.
I thaw the "day before" portions in a tote, put in the fridge after a few hours of thawing. 
I use clorox clean up on the counters after cutting up necks or big meat pieces, and soap/water after I feed. Paper towels instead of towels for wiping down the floor(spritz with the Cl. Cl-up) where Onyx eats in the kitchen. 
Because I have teenagers in the house that are grossed out by everything, I try to be considerate to the other household members feelings. 
Today, Kacie wouldn't eat her sirloin steak, because a piece of tilapia was in her dish. 
I told my daughter to just dump the meat in the river rock, so she'd eat it. No big deal, Kacie eats outside and prefers to not eat from a bowl. She ate the sirloin, left the fish for Karlo...he's the only fish eater here(for now til his tastebuds mature)


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

BlackPuppy said:


> Don't come to my house. I'll get out the ground turkey, hand feed some to the dogs for a snack and not wash my hand before openning another cabinet, and wipe my hands off on a towel. I guess I'm just going to die.


Mine either! :rofl:

Why do you need to wash everything down so vigorously? do you do that when you cook a meal for your family? 

Keep a bottle of bleach water, a separate cutting board used only for meat (scrub the cutting board with salt and lemon juice), and a good hand sanitizer.

If it is truly a hassle that is causing alot of stress in your life then go back to kibble. This is supposed to be better for you dog but you aren't supposed to have a nervous breakdown in the process!


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## looneygirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks for all the help. You all made me laugh too. I will keep trying and hope to get over my phobia!! Looneygirl


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

use gloves when handling the bleach.
we eat a lot of chicken and fish.
the fish and chicken is on our counter
tops and cutiing boards. 

i wipe the counter tops down with
a sponge or scrubby. i use the scrubby
on the cutiing board. occassionally
we'll bleach the cutting board and sink.

if our food and our dogs food 
isn't contaminated when it comes
from the store i'm not worried
that it will become contaminated
while in our house.


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## Whitedog404 (Mar 25, 2010)

I can't handle the idea of all of that raw meat being slung around, either. And I always keep a spray bottle of bleach at the ready. I would do that even if I didn't have dogs. However, I wanted my dogs to have great food, especially my senior girl who started ignoring her kibble. I'd always add treats to her food and not always something I'd want the puppy or the three-year-old to eat. But she's about 13 (a rescue, so we don't have an exact birth year), so I let her have what she wants, within reason. And after the puppy came along a couple of months ago, I decided to do some research and cook their food. Well, I still do kibble, but rather than adding canned food, I add my homemade. I usually made a big 12-quart pot and freeze it. All three love it and their coats are nice and shiny. Plus, the house smells like Thanksgiving. I do several versions, but there's plenty of chicken, usually with extra hearts and gizzards, sometimes beef, and I'll start some lamb soon. I cook the meat with some brown rice, sweet potatoes, carrots, kale and garlic. I also add other items such as lentils and green peas. I don't cook it to death and the dogs seem really happy. My senior girl actually gets a bit excited at meal times, and she's always been finicky. I give the puppy raw meaty beef bones a couple times a week and will stop that in a few months. Overall, I'm happy with what I'm feeding them.


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## looneygirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks again for all the advice. Wanted to update everyone on my situation with . I really got a scare last week. My husband of 22 years was sick either with food poising or some flu/virus. All I can tell you is he was sicker that I have ever seen anyone and at both ends. (I will be in trouble if he reads this) I had to stay with him non stop because if is potassium gets low he has heart problems and has been hospitalized for heart/ palps due to low/no potassium in the past. He also felt like he was going to pass out most of the time. He missed 2 days of work and a major project bid so everyone that knows him knows he was really ill. There is no way to tell what the cause was but he did run a fever and get a fever blister after the illness passed so I am thinking it was a flu or virus, a few of his coworkers kids had something very similar. 
I decided to stick with the raw diet for now - found some really cheap cut up chicken marked down for 50 cents lb. so I made up enough baggies for 10 days (I only do this once a day for lunch or evening depending on our schedule) Soper some of the advice you all were so kind to give me I take it from freezer to a bowl in the fridge to thaw then straight out to the yard. I am actually getting a little better about handling the raw chicken it did not gross me out as much to chop some of the bones for my little 7lb mix and remove most of the skin. I guess the more I do this raw meat I will become less germ phobic. Must be like the quote - “What does not kill you makes you stronger”
I am posting a new question about raw port neck bones I found on sales really cheap on new thread. Thanks again for your help and kind words - I don’t feel so alone on the feeding issue now. 

Looneygirl


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Here's my typical daily feed-the-dogs routine.

Grab the plastic containers of food out of the dog fridge (one of those little once).

Pick up all the dog bowls from the floor (or where ever the dogs licked them to).

Place bowl on scale, grab food from container, cut into bowl until have desired amount then switch bowls. Continue until all bowls are filled.

Place bowls in each dogs spot in the kitchen. Dogs have been trained where to eat and they do not (are not allowed to) remove food from their spot.

While the dogs eat (and I watch for any attempts at stealing), I wash my hands with cold water and soap, put leftovers back in fridge and then wipe up any spills (there usually aren't any since I go from container right to bowl).

I use hot water on a towel to wipe up any spills.

I then go grab more frozen stuff from the basement, place it in tubs and set the tubs in our downstairs bathroom shower. Dogs and cats are not allowed in there (door is kept shut) so I don't have to worry about anyone stealing stuff while it defrosts.

Stuff sits in the bathroom for 24 hours, usually, and then I feed it and package the leftovers for the fridge.

I think I've washed the dogs bowls ONCE in the past 30 days ... maybe. My gang each spend time licking out every bowl so I really doubt there's a molecule of ANYTHING left in them.

They only time I was more cautious with handling stuff was when I was going through chemo. My DH did most of the work during the main chemo and I tried to avoid letting the dogs lick my face right after eating.


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## goatdude (Mar 3, 2009)

I usually feed my girl in her crate so that contains any mess to there.
As far as cleaning up the kitchen what's the difference between preparing
chicken for the dog and cutting up one to cook for ourselves?
Steak too for that matter
Only difference is we cook our food and not hers
Never tried the green tripe but heard it smells god awful
Need to buy a separate freezer for the dog though... so I'm searching through 
craigslist


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm also going to die. I just use everyday kitchen counter cleaner. Even if I hack up 50lbs of beefheart and turkey or whatever, it's papertowels and kitchen cleaner. Like 409 or whatever. 

I wash my hands after handling the meat...usually AFTER I've already touched the fridge or whatever. Everyone is still alive. I usually wait like 5-10 mins after they eat before I let Anna give me a puppy kiss, but I don't freak out.


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## CaliBoy (Jun 22, 2010)

Looneygirl:

My friends who feed raw tell me they have never had a problem with bones, which is great. For 15 years I had two GSD's who never had an issue with bones. However, my third GSD LittleGuy got into the kitchen trash in spite of how secure I usually have it, and found some bones from cooked chicken. 

Unfortunately, some of the pieces were swallowed without being chewed well, and I spent 2 days in doggie emergency with him, with the fluids IV and the vet having to clean out the shards by hand as he was passing them. Thank God none of the pieces punctured his intestine, just irritated him badly though. Since then, I am paranoid about chicken bones, whether cooked or raw. It is so horrible to see your dog in excruciating pain and drugged up while he is passing pieces of bone.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

There's a big difference between cooked and raw chicken bones. Cooked bones lose all their moisture, become brittle and sharp. Raw chicken bones retain their moisture and are much softer than those that have been cooked. 

I don't give my dogs any cooked bones, including those that are sold at petstores...they split as well. The only bones they get are raw and the only chews they get are bully sticks, cow ears and trachea.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I think that salmonella has evolved to have a proclivity towards people that are paranoid about it.


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## DangerousBeauty (Jul 8, 2010)

I work in a chemistry lab so it is almost habit to wipe things down with bleach. I do feed outside since baron likes to take pieces out of his dish and lay in the yard with them. I agree that some germs are good for the immune system.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Relayer said:


> I think that salmonella has evolved to have a proclivity towards people that are paranoid about it.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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