# Puppy with Underdeveloped Rear Legs



## Sarah28 (Jul 12, 2011)

Hello everyone,

My name is Sarah and my husband and I have owned 3 GSD's, we currently have a Great Dane (almost 7) and a Yorkie (5). I have been looking to adopt another GSD and came across a 7 week old puppy that is described to have "underdeveloped rear legs".

The whole scenario screams "RUN!" but I'm a softy for dogs that others may turn their backs on. All of my dogs have been adopted after their owners have pretty much given up on them. Anyway, I already know that 7 weeks is too soon for this little girl to leave her mama but I'm thinking the "breeder" is not too concerned with that. She has sent me photos and it does appear that her legs are just useless. The lady did tell me that she runs around and plays with her brothers but that she drags her legs too. She said that the vet has told her that they are underdeveloped and it is not hip dysplasia. She has also informed me that the mother is hip certified along with the father and she is baffled as to how this occured.

I am pretty much assuming that this little girl will never be able to walk normally and may require a set of wheels for her rear legs. I have never cared for a handicap dog so I'm wondering if anyone can offer any insight? Another concern of mine is if the legs are underdeveloped, is there anything else that may be life threatening that is also underdeveloped. That's something I won't know until I take her to my own vet and I'm ok with that.

This may sound silly but how in the world does a puppy or dog use the restroom when they're unable to lift their rear? I should also state that I am a stay-at-home military wife so I do have the necessary time to give to this puppy but I just want to get as much input as I can before taking the next step. Any info/tips anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Can you post pictures? Are her legs straight?


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## Sarah28 (Jul 12, 2011)

Yes, they look straight. I was trying to see if they were bowed because I know that issue can be corrected. I'm uploading the photos now, give me a minute and I'll post.


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## Sarah28 (Jul 12, 2011)




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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...legged-gsds-may-have-new-genetic-disease.html

This may be helpful to you.


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## nasus858 (Oct 11, 2010)

This site may be helpful. It helped me when we got our blind cat.Index page • For Caretakers of Elderly, Disabled, & Handicapped Pets. Dog Wheelschairs Products | Support


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

That is not just "underdeveloped". That looks like a serious issue to me - please read Jamie's link about genetic disease above.


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## Sarah28 (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks Jamie. The straight legged thread that I read was... scary. I almost think I'd rather her have no use of her legs than it being a neurological or genetic issue that becomes life threatening. Something to consider.

Thanks for the link nasus858.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Definitely something to consider. I'd pass the info along to the breeder too as she may not even be aware that this is not merely underdeveloped.

Maybe you can contact the OP of the thread I posted and check her website. The pup is going to need help and even if you aren't the one to help her (and there is no shame in that), you may be able to get resources from the website to find someone who can help.


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

The underdevelopment of the legs is a secondary condition due to either injury or birth defect (neurological perhaps). Mother dogs can step on puppies, puppies can be kept in unsafe conditions, puppies can fall, be dropped, etc...all of which would cause an injury resulting in (from the pictures) partial/full paralysis. 

Or, as I stated above, this puppy could have been born with a number of conditions that cause physical/neurological conditions causing full/partial paralysis. 

One question I would ask the breeder is "has the puppy been like this since birth"? Or, was it a seemingly "normal" puppy and then all of a sudden stopped walking/using it's legs? An honest answer to this question could give you a lot of insight as to whether this was an injury or a birth defect. 

Either way, this puppy could possibly be in A LOT of pain, depending on whether it still has full sensation. It will eventually rub sores on it's hind legs from dragging, that will quite possibly get infected and have to be treated. If the puppy has to be in a "wheelchair", it will more than likely develp early arthritis and joint damage due to overcompensating with it's front legs. 

Other problems, especially with going to the bathroom, revolve around whether or not it has the ability to relieve itself or not. The puppy may have no sensation, and may urinate/have bowel movements on itself requiring diapering it's whole life. 

There are so many factors that seemingly affect what the prognosis of this puppy could be...either way, if it were my decision, I would NOT take the puppy (possibly thousands and thousands of vet bills, other unknown heath problems, heartbreak from watching the pup possibly be in pain/struggling, etc.).


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

I have seen this issue a couple of times in my GSD experience and in both cases the pup was from great stock, well bred and cared for, was *normal* at birth and it was as if over a bit of time almost like the knees and hocks become locked in position. One of the pups I knew only had it in one leg which was later amputated. The other has been a great companion to her adopters and does get around on her unusual legs. I know this has been seen in GSD circles for a number of years but I have no clue what causes it and it does not appear to be reversable. I do know that life seems to find a way and the 2 GSDs and a couple other pups of various parentage I have seen seemed to just roll with it and learned to adapt and made great pets.

Cherri


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Part of being a breeder means making tough decisions. And it is really hard. Nobody talks much about it. No one wants to think about it. Hillary Plog kind of danced around it. I think that the breeder needs to do her job.

If you have a dog that you have owned for eight or nine years, and it ruptures a disk and is paralyzed in the back end, but otherwise seems to be in decent health, using a chair for a while will prolong life. It will be hard with possible incontinence and a whole lot of lifting, but it is hard to let them go when you have bonded with them over years. I can understand that.

For this baby, I am sorry, but there are two possibilities, that the problem is physical and as bad as it will get, or maybe complete paralysis; or it is a disease and the poor thing will get progressively worse. In either case you would be setting yourself up for heart break.


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## Sarah28 (Jul 12, 2011)

Thank you all. Too much is unknown for me to dive into this. Jamie, I will definitely share the website linked in the thread you sent me with the breeder.


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

selzer said:


> Part of being a breeder means making tough decisions. And it is really hard. Nobody talks much about it. No one wants to think about it. Hillary Plog kind of danced around it. I think that the breeder needs to do her job.
> 
> If you have a dog that you have owned for eight or nine years, and it ruptures a disk and is paralyzed in the back end, but otherwise seems to be in decent health, using a chair for a while will prolong life. It will be hard with possible incontinence and a whole lot of lifting, but it is hard to let them go when you have bonded with them over years. I can understand that.
> 
> For this baby, I am sorry, but there are two possibilities, that the problem is physical and as bad as it will get, or maybe complete paralysis; or it is a disease and the poor thing will get progressively worse. In either case you would be setting yourself up for heart break.


Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I am glad that a breeder contributed to this thread and gave their honest and objective opinion on what should be done.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

I also think it is important for breeders to deal with the "hard stuff" and make the hard decisions but, since I have seen this condition in a few dogs and have seen how they grew up with it and deal with it I think they still make great pets and have great quality of life. Caring for them is not easy of course, and takes a lot more work than your average dog but, many people seem to want to accept challenges like this. I am reluctant to feel that this pup should be put down if she has the same condition that I am familiar with (the photos look exactly the same, the legs have a very specific look to them.) Some breeders are no nonsense and will "cull" or "put down" any pup with a challenging problem and others seem to try every avenue in order to give the pup a life. I respect both, have known both types. It's not an easy situation and not an easy decision to make especially when the pup seems to not be in pain and is happy to see you.

Cherri

Cherri


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

EastGSD said:


> I also think it is important for breeders to deal with the "hard stuff" and make the hard decisions but, since I have seen this condition in a few dogs and have seen how they grew up with it and deal with it I think they still make great pets and have great quality of life. Caring for them is not easy of course, and takes a lot more work than your average dog but, many people seem to want to accept challenges like this. I am reluctant to feel that this pup should be put down if she has the same condition that I am familiar with (the photos look exactly the same, the legs have a very specific look to them.) Some breeders are no nonsense and will "cull" or "put down" any pup with a challenging problem and others seem to try every avenue in order to give the pup a life. I respect both, have known both types. It's not an easy situation and not an easy decision to make especially when the pup seems to not be in pain and is happy to see you.
> 
> Cherri
> 
> Cherri


Unfortunately, we have *NO IDEA* what is wrong with this puppy, which is why I posted so many of the different factors that could lead to the definitive prognosis of this puppy. This thread isn't about what the breeder should/should not do, as that is not our decision, but it certainly is important to see opinions from breeders so that the OP can see absolutely EVERY avenue and perspective.

First things first, it isn't even the responsibility of the OP to have to "figure out" what is wrong with this puppy...what a horrible position the breeder is putting her into. The OP should be equipped with all of the information possible from THE BREEDER, and unfortunately, she has little to none. This is a RED FLAG, as no reputable breeder should be "pawning" off sick/diseased/injured puppies to potential buyers without knowing exactly what is wrong and how it should be dealt with.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Hillary_Plog said:


> First things first, it isn't even the responsibility of the OP to have to "figure out" what is wrong with this puppy...what a horrible position the breeder is putting her into. The OP should be equipped with all of the information possible from THE BREEDER, and unfortunately, she has little to none. This is a RED FLAG, as no reputable breeder should be "pawning" off sick/diseased/injured puppies to potential buyers without knowing exactly what is wrong and how it should be dealt with.


Exactly. 

The breeder should be doing her job. If she's not going to euthanize the puppy, the breeder is the one that should be busting her butt trying to figure out what is going on and what to do about it... not leaving that in the hands of a potential buyer. That is a horrible position for the OP to be put into.

I've not seen this condition before, so I can't comment on it, except to say that if this is going to be a lifelong battle with pain, severely restricted mobility, and other possible neurological issues, it's a setup for heartbreak. Poor little puppy.


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## Sarah28 (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillary_Plog, you hit the nail on the head when you said, "pawning off".

I forwarded the information to the straight legged website as an avenue for her to explore. I also informed her that I was no longer interested but thanked her for sending photos. She responded with, "I DONT THINKS IS THE PARASITE BECAUSE THE REST OF THE LITTER IS FINE AND THE PARENTS* TOO. , I THINK THAT MOTHER STEP ON HER .." then this... "WHAT ABOUT IF YOU*GET HER FREE?"

First off, I thought it was absurd for her to be requesting any fee for this puppy. And now, she is wanting me to do her dirty work. A part of me just wants to go rescue this puppy from this woman and deal with any heartache that may come with it. At least then she will have a "mama" who cares for her and has her best interest in mind.

I just don't know what to do.


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

Hilary, I don't know why you commented as you did on my post? I never suggested a breeder should "pawn off" a puppy on anyone and I assumed there was of course communication between the breeder and the poster? I was just lending my opinion on the situation and my familiarity on the possible condition as I knew it. That's all.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Sarah28 said:


> I just don't know what to do.


Perhaps it would help if you sat down with your vet. Ask his/her opinion. With a pup like this your relationship with your vet will be extremely important. Maybe your vet has treated a pup like this and will have a good idea what it's future holds.

I really wish you the best.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Sarah28 said:


> First off, I thought it was absurd for her to be requesting any fee for this puppy. And now, she is wanting me to do her dirty work. A part of me just wants to go rescue this puppy from this woman and deal with any heartache that may come with it. At least then she will have a "mama" who cares for her and has her best interest in mind.
> 
> I just don't know what to do.


Check out the video at the bottom of Aoibhe's page on the Straight-legged GSD website:

Aoibhe Videos

She seems to have NO problems getting around!!

If you have the ability to foster her while she's listed on that website - maybe someone would adopt her.


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## Spiritsmam (Nov 10, 2007)

Hi sarah

I'm Joanne and I have 3 affected GSD's like this pup. Long story short we do not know what the cause of these hindlimb anomalies is as yet. We do know that pups like this have popped up in litters for years. It used to be that the pups were culled, but increasingly they are showing up in shelters or breeders are asking for help rehoming them.

Sadly a fourth affected GSD I had passed away (unrelated causes) earlier this year and his necropsy shows this is likely a motor neuron disease (neurological problem) that has never been reported in the literature before. I am working with vets at NC State vet school to investigate further and hopefully figure out the underlying genetics so we can eliminate the problem.

Let me tell you about these dogs as someone who owns them. Firstly they are NOT PAINFUL, despite what people who don't know them may think/say. My dogs run and play like any other dog and are not on any medications. My guys get up and down unaided, and easily manage steps and stairs. All are fully continent and can pee/poop unaided. 

This is NOT a progressive disease. My Spirit is 8 years old and is in perfect health apart from her hindlimb anomalies. I know of about 30 other affected dogs ranging in age from 1 - 8 years old and all are doing great.

It does take time for these guys to learn how to walk. The girls are much faster than the boys, Aoibhe walking by 5 weeks, Eli taking almost a year. I'm at an advantage as Spirit, my alpha female took time to teach the others how to walk.

These dogs CANNOT be "fixed" surgically. They have multipple deformmities in the bones of their hindlimbs. Surgery was tried a couple of times, including at the University of tennessee and was determined to be unsuccessful. Affected dogs adapt very well and can live great quality lives with straight legs.

One thing you do need to do if you take this girl and that is test for neospora and toxoplasmosis. It is very unlikely they will be positive, but the presentation of these dogs is the same as you would see in these diseases.

I'm more than happy to talk to you or the breeder if you would like.

regards
Joanne


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

EastGSD said:


> Hilary, I don't know why you commented as you did on my post? I never suggested a breeder should "pawn off" a puppy on anyone and I assumed there was of course communication between the breeder and the poster? I was just lending my opinion on the situation and my familiarity on the possible condition as I knew it. That's all.


EastGSD, sorry...the last paragragh of my post was not in comment to yours...I responded to yours and then had an afterthought which I included in the second paragraph. No worries...sorry to confuse you!


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

*Nobody*, not the breeder, not the OP, and not even the people commenting on this thread know what is wrong with this puppy. How can anyone just assume that this puppy has the "straight leg" hind limb abnormalities that Spiritsmam is describing that her dogs have? 

It is plainly obvious that this breeder has no intentions of taking responsibility for this dog and taking it to a specialist to narrow down whether this pup is suffering from an injury that caused paralysis or has a genetic (neurological) defect causing the paralysis, and it is even more obvious that she is trying to sluff off the responsibility to a person that feels "sorry" for the pup. What kind of a person does that?

I think that it is dangerous for us, as merely onlookers, to advise the OP that she assume this is the "straight leg" abnormality and that this pup will grow up to be a healthy pet. For all we know this could be any number of progresssive diseases or a serious injury requiring thousands of dollars of vet visits and accomodative measures and materials and surgeries. 

If the breeder took responsibility and got an official veterinarians report (specifically a neuro/ortho specialist) that said exactly what was wrong with this puppy, then the OP will be equipped with the knowledge to either assume ownership and take on the challenge or pass it up. 

Sarah, I know this is hard, but you have to think long and hard about how much you are willing to give up in this situation. First of all, you have two other dogs, do you have the money, energy, time and commitment to potentially commit your life to rehabilitating this dog (assuming she has a condition that can be rehabbed)? Can you deal with commiting all this money, energy, and time and still come to grips that this pup may die an early death or have to be put down after all?

If you decide to entertain the idea of taking the dog, in my opinion, you should demand that the breeder take the puppy to your vet of choice and have a thorough examination (including whether or not this dog has bladder/bowel control, loss of sensation, etc), x-rays, and bloodwork done. This way you can be prepared to make a completely informed decision and decide whether you can afford to manage whatever is wrong with this puppy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I don't think anyone is making assumptions. But the pictures of this puppy look very much like the pictures that Spiritsmam has posted of her dogs, so this is a possibility that the OP should be aware of before making any kind of decision about this puppy. I totally agree with having the puppy checked out by a vet of her choice. I would personally not take the word of the "breeder".


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I feel bad for this puppy as it does sound like the breeder is pawning her off and doesn't want to incur any vet bills((


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

No worries Hillary  I was just confused as to what I had done lol

On a side note I do know of the two pups I knew in depth with this issue they were seen by vets but the vets had no clue as to what the issue was. I do know it is being seen more and more so it is obviously just yet another "issue" with our beloved breed  It does not seem to matter what lines are used or how responsible the breeder is  I am going to check out the link posted. Hopefully this problem will get some more attention and maybe the problem can be identified.

Cherri


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## ChancetheGSD (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm glad Spiritsmam posted. I don't think it's a bad idea to get the vet to check it out but honestly it's such an unknown problem (If it is the same problem Spiritsmams dogs have, which is looks to be) I don't think a regular vet would have any good advice. I wouldn't just blow off the advice Spiritsmam gave because it would be some of the best you could take from a situation that is fairly unknown because she IS actively involved in GSD's with straight legs and has first hand experience which I don't think any of us other owners have. Nor do most vets.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

The puppy looks lovely and I hope someone takes it on to give it a wonderful chance of a full life.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you are going to take the pup, like they said take it to a specialist who will know the types of tests, toxmosis?, etc, that they should run to narrow down the problem. Go WITH the breeder, and you can both learn what you need to know. 

I hope I am never in this situation. My gut says to put down the puppy. But that would be incredibly hard to do if the puppy does not seem to be in pain. We do not know how much pain dogs endure. But still, it would be hard. 

I do not have a problem with a pet home raising such a puppy, so long as they are going in with full disclosure. Charging someone for such a puppy never crossed my mind. Not that the pup is not worth anything, but that the puppy is likely to incur vet charges because of the condition, and someone giving this pup a good home would be a blessing.


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## Linzi (Mar 23, 2010)

When i looked at the first picture of this puppy, the rear leg's do not look straight,or is it just me.
I had 2 foster untreated swimmer syndrome Shepherd puppies,one of them looked just like this pup..I agree with everyone else,the breeder should have done more for this poor pup.
Linzi


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Is the OP still around?


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## EastGSD (Jul 8, 2001)

If it is what many of us think it is there is nothing to be done if it is in both legs.....it is a permanent feature that many go one to learn to compensate for and lead good lives.

Cherri


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## Spiritsmam (Nov 10, 2007)

Turns out the OP didn't take this pup as she turned up as a "free" pup on Craigslist . Long story short she came to me yesterday and is a real pistol, clearly never socialized. Her name is now Sophie and she will be up for adoption in a short while when she has been evaluated by an orthopedist, taught some manner etc.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

I am so glad she is in good hands!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Joanne, you are such an angel she is sure a cutie


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

I'm glad this pup found you!


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## nitemares (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm so happy this pup is now in a safe place.
you are a wonderful person Joanne


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