# what is "too sharp?"



## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

there's no wrong answer so please don't be shy (no pun intended)


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I like my dogs to be traffic safe, able to be trusted in public places. An example, if I took them to a restaurant, I would expect them to be comfortable with the waiter taking our order, bringing food, and the general going’s on around them. I don’t think it’s necessary for them to be ok if the waiter goes to pet them. I wouldn’t want to see a bite, but I’d be ok with a warning. Sharper dogs do serve a purpose, but that’s generally where I draw my line. I do like my dogs to be good with kids.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Thinner nerves, more reactive to their surroundings. Can’t be trusted in every situation.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

thanks for the replies

the reason I ask. Well firstly I’m really into *VPAT#7* because I’ve found correlation between it and, for lack of a better term, like “agility?” I guess? High pain threshold individuals just naturally “dive in headfirst” because they don’t worry about getting hurt. Whereas more sensitive individuals just naturally learn to proceed with caution. A lot of people like to criticize the VPAT but I’m tellin’ ya, it don’t do a bit of harm… But anyways there’s correlation between high pain threshold and sharpness as well… and too sharp has a lot of downsides in my venue…

I’m trying to make up my mind about an incident that just happened here. Little mookie is 4 months old today. In order to keep him hanging around the back door overnight I randomly reward the behavior with food. Some nights it’s just a little bite thrown, other nights it’s a whole extra meal served on the roof. Might happen @ 11PM, or maybe not until 2:30AM? I like to keep him guessing. It keeps him close.

So last night he’s on the roof eating a whole scoop, and I’m shining my flashlight on him kinda horizontal beam, just looking him over. And all of a sudden he flips out. You know that very first “big booming bark” moment we all look forward to? That was our moment… and he barked at his own shadow on a wall about 20 feet away…. Luckily I was right there within arms reach when it happened and I didn’t let him get himself all wound up.

It was just dumbluck that I neither rewarded nor corrected. I might just as easily have mistakenly done either or as I wasn’t quite awake myself. But fortunately I didn’t startle myself. All I said was, calmly, “mookie, it’s ok” and he went right back to his kibble without a peep.

I just wonder if it’s an omen of things to come? I sure don’t need no shadowbarker here. Nor do I need a dog so sharp that it requires more containment than livestock.

Now, I know a lot of people do, and I’m certainly not criticizing them.

I’m really only trying to guess what the future may hold for this dog?

Any thoughts?


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I mean I wouldn't go so far as to dismiss it as "forward aggression," but he definitely wasn't backing away from his midnight snack...


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

A couple of my dogs have done the same except it was the first couple of times they caught their reflection in the windows.When it's dark outside and light inside so the window glass becomes a mirror, they expect to see landscape but there's a dog looking back at them.
I think Mookie saw his weird looking shadow movement from the corner of his eye. You should try it again and see if he goes to investigate or attacks the wall.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

We’re his hackles up?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> thanks for the replies
> 
> the reason I ask. Well firstly I’m really into *VPAT#7* because I’ve found correlation between it and, for lack of a better term, like “agility?” I guess? High pain threshold individuals just naturally “dive in headfirst” because they don’t worry about getting hurt. Whereas more sensitive individuals just naturally learn to proceed with caution. A lot of people like to criticize the VPAT but I’m tellin’ ya, it don’t do a bit of harm… But anyways there’s correlation between high pain threshold and sharpness as well… and too sharp has a lot of downsides in my venue…
> 
> ...


I wouldn’t put to much stock in one incident. Depending on what you want to do, the strong defensive responses can be the start of a good thing.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

I was standing there with my thumb right on the button. No exterior lights here. Just the stars. Normally I'm careful to conserve my batteries, but it was like 2AM and I wasn't completely conscious. In other words it may well have been the first time he's ever really seen his own shadow?

He woofed. I looked up and saw his much larger silhouette on the wall, cut the light and sleepily muttered "mookie, it's ok." To be honest I don't even know if he has hackles yet? He's still pretty well downy all over.

Had I been all jacked up on coffee and in the mood to play, I might have encouraged it? "Watch 'em, mookie! Get him boy!" Had I been startled I might have corrected him? It was just one of those real life moments that catches you unprepared and leaves you to ponder.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

berno von der seeweise said:


> I was standing there with my thumb right on the button. No exterior lights here. Just the stars. Normally I'm careful to conserve my batteries, but it was like 2AM and I wasn't completely conscious. In other words it may well have been the first time he's ever really seen his own shadow?
> 
> He woofed. I looked up and saw his much larger silhouette on the wall, cut the light and sleepily muttered "mookie, it's ok." To be honest I don't even know if he has hackles yet? He's still pretty well downy all over.
> 
> Had I been all jacked up on coffee and in the mood to play, I might have encouraged it? "Watch 'em, mookie! Get him boy!" Had I been startled I might have corrected him? It was just one of those real life moments that catches you unprepared and leaves you to ponder.


It’s not something that you correct. With that I would let him figure it out on his own.


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

It’s pretty normal for a pup to react to its own image in the mirror for the first time but not enough to say he’s too sharp. Fear period kicks in as well. All depends on the dogs recovery, was it quick to check out what affected him is important.
How is he in public? New places, people walking toward him, plastic bags blowing loud noises etc.


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## berno von der seeweise (Mar 8, 2020)

This is the only incident I have to report. He was born in the wind and stuff blows through here all the time without issue. No sound sensitivity, and he’s outgoing enough with my delivery people. He doesn’t want to go home with them, but he comes right up to the gate and checks everything out. My mail carrier is a gsd person, so that’s helpful.

Had I been a little more or a little less awake and startled by an inappropriate bark, I may have issued a correction? Like I say, it was only dumbluck that I didn’t, and that certainly gives me pause to think. Had I been on the ball, I would have afforded him the opportunity to investigate.

Really I guess, whats so noteworthy about the incident in my mind, I’m very familiar with prey driven dogs that readily train to behave suspiciously, and I don’t remember ever seeing one bark at it’s own shadow. But as mentioned above, I have seen a young dog bark at it’s own reflection early on, so maybe that’s all it was? Time will tell...


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

When my cat was young, and first noticed his shadow, he tried to play with it. Didn't last long - he soon either realized what it was or go tired of the lack of response! 

So, I'm thinking, not something at all abnormal for a young animal, who was probably seeing this for the first time. And the fact he was suspicious of something new is, IMO, a good thing.


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