# What to expect from a 'shy' pup?



## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

Last night we visited with the litter where we're getting a pup. We played each pup individually. One pup confused us so we wanted to take some time to think about it. I would appreciate any insight on this behavior. Let me describe him the best I can:

Playing with him individually was great. He willingly came and followed us running around the room with his tail up, sometimes getting underfoot and nipping at my pants. He liked to climb on us and lick faces. He struggled when put on his back but calmed down in a few seconds. He wasn't scared when we dropped a book near him, he just sniffed it and forgot it. When we threw toys, he watched where they went but did not follow unless we walked over there too. Of all the pups he was the most content to be with us and least interested in going to the door where he heard his littermates. 

However, his interactions in the group setting were somewhat different. When someone made a chair squeak on the floor, he backed up to me while the other pups looked up and one went to investigate. The same thing happened when someone came to the door. He didn't look at who is was like the rest of the pups. When he did show interest in noises, he was the last puppy to follow the group. At times he noticeably strayed from the group into a corner but remained watchful and would come out if called over. When the pups were getting tired he chose to sleep near one of us instead of the other pups. 

The breeder has never seen him get picked on by the others. We saw him pin his sister and then get pinned by her, and then he pounced the face of an adult dog who then walked away.

We were told he may or may not be hard to train because of his shyness, that he may be 'less forgiving' with mistakes in training, but I don't understand what that means. And he's not shy at all with people, just sometimes other dogs and noises it seems. He really seems to love people, so I'm sure he'll bond well to us.

I'm wondering if his behavior is telling as to how he'll be with other dogs in the future, with new people, with noises, and with being left alone. Will he bark if someone comes to the door, or run to me hiding? Would he be a complete failure if we tried protection training? Would he become aggressive if scared?

Thanks for any input. We're leaning towards this pup based on his attentiveness to us, and his calm attitude... but any further thoughts or concerns would help us decide.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Rocky was a shy pup. 

He has always been _very_ slow to warm up to strangers. Usually the first two or three times he meets someone he doesn't want them to pet him. He'll actively try to avoid letting them touch him. 
He spooks at loud noises
He's afraid of children.
He won't take food or treats from people he doesn't consider part of his family.
He's an _excellent_ watchdog because he's a little paranoid and notices things that are a little out of the ordinary before the other dogs do. 

We spent the first 4 or 5 years trying to socialize him and get him used to kids and strangers and I'm sure it did some good in his early years-- I'd hate to think of what he'd be like without the socialization! But since he's getting older we kind of let him be who he is and don't force him to meet kids or be petted by strangers anymore.

Now, Rocky was a byb puppy. If you're talking about the shyest pup from a litter that comes from a reputable breeder who works and titles their dogs, your experience will probably be completely different.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Or not! You never know, and if you aren't used to a shyer dog, then get one that is not. It's better for the puppy/future dog in the long run too. At the bottom of this it gives a really oversimplified summary of the attributes of a puppy and potential home. 
 Puppy Aptitude Test​


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would rather have a pup with a bit more confidence, and want to be with the littermates. Pack instinct carries over when we take them home. It also depends on what you want to do with your pup. Family companion, but no sportwork? If you are going to get into anything competitive, I would go with a more confident type.
The breeder should help you in your choice when you explain what you want in your next companion.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Zoe was a shy pup with strangers and still is. She's been a charm to train basics, is great with my kids,and other dog. She often slept alone at the breeders, but not always and was picked on, and she's not into people approaching her which is why no one picked her- she's quite aloof. However, she's not aloof with us at all, very protective already, and a calm girl compared to many of her siblings. 

If you really like the pup pick him!! Socialization can be taught and Zoe will now take treats from strangers outside though she still barks at them while doing so but is improving. She loves to play, walk, run, and explore everywhere and isn't afraid of anything. Maybe your pup is just shy in his pack and won't be in your home without other dogs to compete with?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I don't know if I would categorize your pup as shy. Being so confident and outgoing around people is great! Whether he would bark or hide if someone came to the door, I don't know. A pup that ran and hid would concern me.

About him being scared of chair making noise, how fast did he recover from his fear? That is telling. Normal for young pups to startle and be afraid of one thing, but not something else, but if they react with fear, what to watch for is how they recover from their fear: Did they stay afraid, or did they quickly realize that no pup-eating monster was coming at them, and decided to go and invetigate whatever made that noise? Did they react with the same fear each time they heard the noise, or did they ignore it now, because they know it is nothing? 

That little pup sounds great for a pet and companion, but if you are seriously interested in protection training, you need a pup that is over-the-top in self-confidence and pushy-ness (LOL, I know that isn't really a word!). 

The best bet to find a puppy suitable for that kind of training is to find a breeder that works and trains dogs for police and personal protection and protection sports. One that has sold dogs for these activities, and has a record of producing dogs with the correct temperament and drives for it. One that can give you references of happy customers, professional trainers, and experienced owners who have gotten dogs from the trainer, and the dogs did indeed turn out to be what the breeder claims. A breeder who has the experience in training dogs and evaluating dogs for working positions will usually be very experienced in evaluating the puppies, evaluating the new owners' level of experience and expectations, and will choose a pup that they feel is the correct match.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

WynterCote said:


> We were told he may or may not be hard to train because of his shyness, that he may be 'less forgiving' with mistakes in training, but I don't understand what that means...
> 
> I'm wondering if his behavior is telling as to how he'll be with other dogs in the future, with new people, with noises, and with being left alone. Will he bark if someone comes to the door, or run to me hiding? Would he be a complete failure if we tried protection training? Would he become aggressive if scared?
> 
> Thanks for any input. We're leaning towards this pup based on his attentiveness to us, and his calm attitude... but any further thoughts or concerns would help us decide.


Less forgiving- If you make a mistake, then you will have to spend more time fixing it because your dog will not forget. A correction that is too hard could set you back seriously and shut your dog down. 

A less forgiving dog is also sometimes described as one that has difficulty changing a behavior once it has learned it. So if you teach something wrong, (you've inadvertently always rewarded crooked heeling, etc.) it harder to get the dog to change it. Bitches are more often characterized as less forgiving. A dog that really is less forgiving can be difficult for a new trainer, but can also teach you more. You know what they say about how challenging animals make you progress? 

If you're planning on training protection, calm isn't really an attribute I would look for. You generally want a confident and outgoing pup that shows little if any fear that shows drive and enthusiasm. However a calmer puppy can be as asset for someone looking for a pet. And his focus on people is commendable, as he would probably be more biddable. 

It's the whole nature/nuture thing. I think pups are born with personalities and tendencies, but proper training and socialization are extremely important in determining the end product. Plenty of breeders have seen puppies they didn't think would amount to much grow up to be very different, and likewise I'm sure they've seen many a bright prospect that didn't turn out. Your pup will have his natural inclinations, but largely his behavior will be up to you and what you reinforce. A more sensitive dog will need more careful thought and consideration to his raising. Be honest with yourself about your abilities as a trainer, the time you are realistically able to put in, and your expectations for this pup and see how it all matches up.


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> I don't know if I would categorize your pup as shy. Being so confident and outgoing around people is great!
> 
> About him being scared of chair making noise, how fast did he recover from his fear?


I agree, although the breeder calls him 'shy', he's very social with people and with the breeder's two-year old daughter. But, two people already passed him over because he hid behind the stove. We saw him do this too, but one-on-one he was terrific. No tail tucking at all.

I guess at this point, we have to decide if protection training is necessary to us. The breeder does not recommend this pup for that purpose. There were some others in the litter that would be much better. Our last GSD was protection trained, but in the end, we had the most fun just hiking and camping with him.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> But, two people already passed him over because he hid behind the stove.


That would concern me . . . you are right that this pup's behaviour is a bit odd, I really don't know what to think about it. I think a pup like this may either grow and gain confidence and turn out confident and solid, or may retain some of this unpredictable hot/cold behaviour. 

How old are the puppies now? Have they been taken outside of the breeder's home and evaluated in a new surrounding with new people, without the security of the pack and other people they know close by? A shy pup can act confident when in the home they have always known.


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> How old are the puppies now? Have they been taken outside of the breeder's home and evaluated in a new surrounding with new people, without the security of the pack and other people they know close by?


The pups are 8-weeks old. No one officially evaluated them. They've been to the vet, so I'll ask the breeder how this pup behaved there. To the best of our ability, we followed the Volhard test. This was done in an unfamiliar room and we were new people to him. The pup was happy and confident with us when away from the pack. Tail up, licking, following, would go from person to person when called. He didn't chase things when we tried to get him to retrieve. He looked at where the object went but remained next to us instead of going after it. I wonder if this is just because we're new people and he was more interested in us, or if he's using us for security in the unfamiliar room?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I honestly can't comment on the puppy itself, a short amount of time spent with one can be deceiving in the end.

What I would do, is rely on the breeder to pick the right dog for your family and expectations and go with it )


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I agree with Diane, but you need to know what you are looking for. 

A pushy, super confident pup can be a nightmare to train or not. If that is your kind of dog, then you know what to expect and deal with it from the get go and do not have any _problem._

A dog for protection, etc, needs to be this kind of dog. So you need to know that this is what you want. 

A dog who is a little less confident, who comes to you and lies next to you might be a dream dog to train, or not. This is the type of dog I prefer to train. I do not have to raise my voice, I do not have to jerk or pull or practice NILIF. They pretty much are keyed into pleasing me. If I show them how to do something, they will do it, they get praised, they become more confident and the next time they do it quicker. 

But if this is not how you are used to training, a harsh correction can actually shut this kind of dog down. Like if the dog is on a stay, and the person next to your dog rushes over to correct her dog, and your dog shies away or sits up, or otherwise breaks his stay, and you are harsh with the dog for this, and the dog stays, good. Then you call the dog and it hesitates. You call again with frustration curling in your voice, and the dog starts to step forward and just stops. The dog has completely lost confidence and fixing this will take patience. 

In either case, you will be fine, if you are accustomed to that type of dog. For most people, a dog who is more in the middle of the road is best. 

The pup you have here seems to have done well in a puppy aptitude test that you gave it, dropping something, holding it, taking it away from littermates and into a strange environment. In the testing I did with my last litter, NONE of it was done in the litter setting, all of it was done in a strange room with a stranger. And your dog passed with flying colors at least by what you wrote.

If you had dropped the book and the pup ran and hid, that would have been bad. 

So I do not know that your dog is exactly shy, but it may be one of the lower pups in the puppy pecking order. This is often tough to gage, because one day the red pup is jumping on top of all the others and pinning them to the ground, and the next day the red pup has been pinned by half the litter. If the red pup is consistantly first out of the box, first outside, first to investigate a new toy, first to grab the plastic bottle and bring it back. Than you probably have a pup that is likely to be VERY confident, intelligent, and a good prospect for any type of canine sport and possibly working. 

If it is not clear which one is the leader of the pack and it changes. Then you should really go back a couple of times. Two others passed this pup up for hiding behind the stove. That suggests it is rather consistant. Maybe this would rate a pass from me too. The pup seems to do ok when it is on its own with one or two people, but in a crowd it seems a bit flakey. 

Normally dogs go through fear stages, but eight week olds are usually not there yet. My guess is this little guy will be a great addition to your family and good with you and your kids, but it is possible that without careful socialization, visitors and dogs may pose a real problem for this dog.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I agree with Diana and selzer  . There are no magic mirrors that will show what the pup will be like, but by being clear with your expectations, the breeder can help steer you towards the right pup for you.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

my last pup was picked for me by the breeder.........he was supposidly a very confident pup with her i didn't see him then because i am in Me the breeder in Ct........I got him at 11-12 weeks old he remained with the breeder because we had vacation plans around the time he was ready to go.........when we got him it was mid-summer he was kinda lathargic not real playful, one reason being he was loaded with roundworms..........around 4 months old he was Very timid/unsure nervous etc......he had been in puppy classes from the time we got him went to work with me met all kinds of people with treats, all good experiences.......i first thought he was in a fear/shy stage but it never went away even with steady classes ongoing socialization etc..........he is now a very unpredicatable dog, has nipped people etc, etc...........i have been counter-conditioning.....steadily working on things.......i am still amazed i could have gotten a puppy like this out of the breeder and the genetic line..........what i am getting at is this pup was supposidly confident when the breeder had him then he changed and went the complete opposite..........his inviroment was nothing but positive. bascially, he does not follow his genetic line..........So, just looking for a confident pup at that age doesn't necessarily mean thats always the way they will be............

i have ALWAYS had better luck picking my own puppy out........if that pup was responsive to me when i visited several times, played with me, interacted with me, things just clicked.........if this pup is responsive and comes to you wants to hang out with you, likes people, etc................i think thats a good thing.........if this pup isn't spending all the time in the corner, running away and hiding, if its coming out to investigate, being social with you and you feel you have a connection i would get the pup..........minor shynesses can be overcome with training and socialization. So, if you feel you have that connection i would go for it..........in my experience if the connection/bond is there you can overcome anything............

debbie


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

while I definately would rely on the breeder, (and is knowledge of what you want to live with) I also can think of worse red flags for me, than what this puppy exhibited.
The PLUS was that he was very into you guys, but whether that would continue, no one can predict..

Good luck with your decision !!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i would go and interact quite a few more times see what happens........hopefully the breeder can help..........puppies are a crap shoot and can change for better or worse.....

debbie


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I would say that picking the most confident pup in the litter can also be "interesting" to say the least. We did that with our pup (2+yo male GSD) and to say he is a handful is a mouthfull! I don't think he was ever afraid of anything - cautious sometimes as a baby but not afraid - of dogs or other things. very confident, pushy dog. His breeder says he has a "stud dog" temperament although he has never been bred.


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

After reading all your posts, and talking at length with the breeder, we decided to go with another pup. We didn't feel that we're experienced enough for an unpredictable pup, one that we could make permanently damaging mistakes with. While it was sad to leave the one we felt we connected with, we knew we'd connect with any pup after some time, and we already have. The breeder recommended a pup for us based on what we wanted to do with our dog. We're now getting to know our little girl 

Thanks to everyone who commented. Your advice was heavily considered, and I feel that we made the right choice.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Congrats. I think that's a good decision. When do you get the pup?


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## WynterCote (Feb 15, 2010)

We got her on Saturday after our 3rd visit with the litter. It's been a fun and tiring weekend! She's a good dog. She's noticeably picking up on some training already. I'll post a pic of her later.


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