# Search the house.



## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

I've always wanted to have a dog that I could send into the house and have it search for anybody that doesn't belong there.

I think Izzy will be that dog, but I'm not real sure how to go about it. We've started off by having her sit/stay in the livingroom, then place a milkbone on the floor, around the corner into another room, then release her by telling her to "search", then she goes to get the milkbone.

Does anyone have any advice on transferring that behavior to searching for people?

Thanks.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Why would you want to put her in danger that way? Somebody could kill her and her not make a sound. You'd be better off with a monitored alarm system. 

it's one thing that she alert if someone comes into the house while your there and you have time to get to a weapon, but to send her in? She's not a police k9 and even those dogs get killed by criminals. 

I'm just trying to understand why someone (non LEO) would need that?


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

I'd need it if we were all at the park, come back home and something doesn't feel right. Send in Izzy to find any intruders that may be inside.

I don't feel about this the same way you do apparently.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I could see if if you lived near the projects somewhere and had drug dealers and gangs hanging out of your front porch step, but other wise, I guess not.

If that were the case, I'd try to get the heck outta dodge instead


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## marksteven (Aug 2, 2008)

I thought in texas you could carry and conceal? maybe i was wrong. if so, i would be entering the house locked and loaded long before the dog!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SiNNiKI'd need it if we were all at the park, come back home and something doesn't feel right.


Any cop will tell you the smart thing to do is get OUT of the house and call 911. That's THEIR job.



> Quote:Send in Izzy to find any intruders that may be inside.


And do what? If you want the dog to engage the intruders you are talking about personal protection training. Expensive and a very serious commitment.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I think GSD's are a good deterent for people approaching the house, alerting you to their presence.

What you are talking about by just sending your untrained dog in is very dangerous for the dog. If you come home and things don't feel right, take the dog and get out of the house and dial 911.

If that is what you want to do then you need to spend time finding a good trainer who trains in Personal Protection. You will need to spend a lot of time doing training and not the protection part. The OB part is very very important with a PPD, there can be no question when you give a command the dog HAS to obey. PPD's can be some what IMHO a bit of a liability.

Val


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Wouldn't a good GSD know right away if somebody was in the house that didn't belong? 

My friend has Airedales (for years and years). One day they came home and the house had been broken into. The dog knew right away something was wrong and ran around the whole house looking for the intruder. 

Anyway, there are people that train GSDs for this purpose and sell them for $50,000+.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

It would probably be better to train her to bark furiously on command, scaring away anyone near the house, rather than send her into an empty house where she can face the barrel of a sawed-off shotgun. Also, have a good security system and pay the subscription fee. 



> Quote:If that is what you want to do then you need to spend time finding a good trainer who trains in Personal Protection. You will need to spend a lot of time doing training and not the protection part. The OB part is very very important with a PPD, there can be no question when you give a command the dog HAS to obey. PPD's can be some what IMHO a bit of a liability.


Good post. At the very least, visit a schutzhund club to see if your dog has what it takes for any sort of PPD training. After all, what will your dog do if she DOES find someone? Will she bark, run away, engage? If she doesn't have the temperament for real PPD work, she could be mentally scarred for life or could have no life left.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

I do live in an area where there are bad elements hanging around, so I guess I pass that test. As for what she'd do when she found someone, I'm fairly certain she'd alert and hold them at bay. She's only 6 and a half months old at this point and already standing up to Mexican contractors who give her the stink eye by our back fence.

I think she'll have a lot of heart and will have no problem moving forward in the face of danger.

I work nights and the main reason we got her was to provide protection for my wife and daughters when I'm not at home.

So far I've read that I could train her for PP, which is a great idea, or train her to bark exuberantly. I appreciate the info, any other ideas?

Currently working toward a handgun purchase since my firearms are all long guns, then will work toward my CHL.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

What if she tries to hold someone "at bay" who has a gun (which I hear a lot of criminals are using nowadays) and they shoot her??

I admit, I love having that extra "alarm" system of the dogs, but if anything looked odd and they start freaking out, that's enough for me to get them out and call the cops. I _guess_ I consider them as an alarm, not as the actual pain inflicting device. That's what we have guns and cell phones for (for like calling the cops).

Once when we did have someone try to break in the house, Duncan alerted me. Gave me time to get the gun and warn whoever it was that I had a gun and to get the F out. I wouldn't have turned him loose to god knows what was out there. I'm there to protect them more so than they are there to protect me. I have opposable thumbs and guns. That's my role.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: SiNNiK She's only 6 and a half months old at this point and already standing up to Mexican contractors who give her the stink eye by our back fence.


Being able to "stand up to" someone behind a fence and being able to stand up to someone actually threatening and advancing on her are two VERY different things.



> Quote:So far I've read that I could train her for PP, which is a great idea, or train her to bark exuberantly. I appreciate the info, any other ideas?


Just want to clarify. *YOU* cannot train her for PP. You need to take her to a trainer (a PP experienced trainer) for training.

*You* will need to do all the follow-up training.

Currently working toward a handgun purchase since my firearms are all long guns, then will work toward my CHL.[/quote]


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SiNNiK She's only 6 and a half months old at this point and already standing up to Mexican contractors who give her the stink eye by our back fence.
> ...


I understand, believe me. Going on information about her breed traits, I have no doubt she will be willing to get in it. My WGSD, god rest his soul, had no qualms about facing down 8 thugs with no fence or anything else to make him feel "safe", but he didn't reach that level of confidence until he was around 5 years old.

This puppy is alot more serious than he was at the same age.



> Originally Posted By: Lauri & The Gang
> 
> 
> > Quote:So far I've read that I could train her for PP, which is a great idea, or train her to bark exuberantly. I appreciate the info, any other ideas?
> ...


I apologize if I inferred that I would be doing the training, it was not my intention to mislead you. I don't think that I did, however I apologize that you took it that way.

I understand the need for a professional trainer, and I do not entertain any sort of fantasy that I am qualified, which is why I came here.

I know there are alot of people on this board that have good advice to give.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I would put my time and effort into moving to a better neighborhood instead of putting my dog in harms way. If I was out with the dogs and suspected someone in my house I would be calling 911 not sending my dog in to their possible death.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

If something does not feel right when you return home from the park, walk around the outside of the house to see if anything is amiss. If anything looks out of the ordinary, enter your home, and loudly ask if anyone is in the home. If you hear anything weird, call the police on your cell phone.

There's no point putting your pup in harm's way, particularly not at a young age and not if you treasure her as a companion rather than a tool to be used to clear your home.

If you live in a bad neighborhood, you may want to consider moving to a better neighborhood, or protecting yourself in other manners. Bars that keep your windows from being pried open (installed in the window jams on the inside) are a good start. A solid door lock and plate around the door will be helpful as well. Reinforce your door frames if they are not solid enough to stand up to someone trying to kick the door in. Secure your valuables and don't leave things where people can see them from the outside. Purchase an inexpensive shotgun for home defense and learn how to use it. Make sure your family members know how to use it as well. Know where it is and where the ammunition is. Know where your phones are, if you use only cell phones, so you don't have to go looking for them when they're most needed.

The majority of crimes are crimes of opportunity - people seeing you've got something worth taking, unsecured windows, unsecured doors. It takes little effort to kick in the average front or back door, or get in through a window, grab what is in the open, and leave. It's that kind of crime you should be most worried about and protect against. And a dog will be a deterrent if you're often seen outside with your dog, and if you're seen TRAINING with your dog. If the dog will sit/down/come/heel on command, what else will the dog do?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqI would put my time and effort into moving to a better neighborhood instead of putting my dog in harms way. If I was out with the dogs and suspected someone in my house I would be calling 911 not sending my dog in to their possible death.










Do you really care so little about the safety of your dog? I realize your own safety is paramount, but you'd BOTH be safer if neither of you went into the house if things seemed "off". If there's someone in your house with a gun and your protection trained dog gets shot and killed you're no better off than if you didn't have a dog at all.

An alarm system would be a better investment.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I understand people can't just up and move, but there are some things you can do other than put your pupper in danger...on purpose.

1. Alarm system
2. Form a neighborhood watch group
3. Talk to your local police dept about the hooligans in your neighborhood and ask them to increase patrols

There are many actions we can take to take back our neighborhoods if we can't move.


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## ituneyou (Dec 20, 2008)

A few weeks ago i took My Max to the vet for a check up and left Lizzie and Lola home to roam around freely in the house which i rarely do.
When i came back home i heard the 2 dogs in the house barking up a storm , Max was going crazy while i had him on the leash and he wanted to run towards the back yard, well i went back to my truck and got Mr. Springfield 45 cal. out and went and searched in the backyard with Max on the leash by my side as soon has i turned the corner of the house there was this guy climbing back onto my blockwall going into my neighbors yard, i quickly called 911 and the police caught the guy they had been looking for him for beating up his girlfriend across the street from me in the shopping center, he must have been trying to break in into the house to hide out, yes i do live in a not too good neighbourhood and thats why i didnt send Max in by himself, i would never do that i love my dogs too much to put them at risk, yes the dogs are good to have to scare bad people away but i would not put them in any danger.

Steve


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

A simple alarm system will be a lot cheaper and more reliable.

Then if you come home and the alarm has been tripped, at least your family will feel better with the dog right by your side.

Safety in numbers.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

Aloha, although I feel as you do about PPD but there are many things nowadays that would deter me from using a dog to do all the work.

If you have wimpy thieves all you need is a GSD barking up a storm and the thieves will scatter ---but--- more than likely thieves may be crack heads not caring for life or death and carrying guns and will shoot at anything, including your dog (while your dog is attacking one thief the other thief is pulling out his Uzi.). If your dog attacks and the court may think the attack is unwarranted or over the top, you will be facing criminal charges and lawsuits. If you don't think the courts are crazy, what about the that guy that was 2x drunk and laid on the train tracks and had his leg severed and got awarded 2.5 million? 
Better to invest in a good security system and use your dog as a warning system and get the **** out of there and call 911. 
(forget about the Hollywood movies that glamorize dog protection, It does not happen this real world). One more example of crazy courts. I rented out some property to a tow truck company and it was fenced in. There was a locked gate and a sign out "beware of dog". A customer of the tow company climbed the fence and got nipped by the dog. The tow company got sued, I got sued, and the actual owner of the master lease of the property got sued. The tow company was slimy and slipped away, I was left holding the bag (even though I never saw a dog on the property and had nothing to do with the tow company other than collect rent once a month) and I had to pay the master lease land owner legal fees as well. and pay medical bills and damages to the person who trespassed. I would think twice about your dog idea. 

frank


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I wouldn't have to teach my dogs to do that. It's natural for my dogs to kind of do a house check when we've all been gone and return. First thing they always seem to do is kind of run thru the house/rooms. 

I especially see this when there IS someone in the house and we return. Whether it's a family member or friend visiting. Dogs seem to know and charge in the door and away. Now my friends get a rousing greeting. Not sure what a freaked out stranger would think when the 2 GSD's rounded the corner......


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## Nerrej (Jun 23, 2008)

Just to beat the proverbial horse.

We have the monitored alarm and guns. Hopefully a criminal wouldn't make it to my dog.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

I understand the ones who say they wouldn't do what I'm planning on, but I expect my dog to be the first one in the mix, I'll be there just as soon as I get my hands on my shotgun. Not any time soon of course since she's only 6 and a half months old.

From two years old on up though, she's got point.

I appreciate everyone's input, we had a little time to train a couple hours ago when I went home for lunch and she did great, we even took it to the first bedroom instead of just the hallway.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

But for her to "engage" an intruder she will need formal training and LOTS of it. This type of training to be done CORRECTLY is very expensive. Cheaper to move or buy an alarm or add safeguards to your home. Apparently your dog is an expendable tool.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

Not so much an expendable tool, but a part of the family with an important job.

I have no aversion to paying money for the good stuff, no matter if it's training for the dog or shotguns, so the fact that the training costs alot does not give me pause.

We are currently renting so a move is a sure thing in the future however it's not this particular area that has me interested in a dog that will clear a house on command. I've had that desire for a couple of decades now, and this is the first dog that I think can really pull that off.

Some dogs will do it automatically, and Izzy will too, but I'm trying to teach her to do it when I want her to do it.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SiNNiKI work nights and the main reason we got her was to provide protection for my wife and daughters when I'm not at home.


I work mids and my husband is gone all week driving truck. One of the reasons we have dogs is so they can alert me when I'm home that something is amiss outside. Alert to me is bark, growl, go to the window etc. in a way that tells me " sumpin' ain't right Mom" so that I have time to grab my phone and call the Police. That's really all a person needs.

My dogs are not protection trained but I feel sorry for any fool that tries to get into my house with Riley in it because I honestly do not think I could stop my boy. I don't think the bad guy would even try once they so much as heard him from the outside because he would scare the living daylights out of the most staunch person with his bark & behavior. I swear there are dead people that wake up when he barks. From a dead sleep, this dog can hear people walking near our house within several houses in any direction and he's "on the job" without being asked. Believe me, I have plenty of time to call the Police. He didn't come to us this way either, he grew into it about a year old.

Please seriously consider listening to the people that are telling you that the Police are the ones that should handle these things, not your dog. Burglers and bad guys these days carry, your dog could be dead in the blink of an eye and then the bad guy may go after your family. Remember that people entering other people's houses are not of a sane balanced mind or they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. If they are willing to risk their lives to enter a home, what else do you think they may do if they get busted? Desperation breeds desperate action. Some may just try to get out, others may just figure "what the heck do I have to lose" and do something. The possibilities are endless and totally unpredictable. Also, please remember that it's not always the bad guy that gets shot during a home invasion or whatever. Please think of all the children that are shot by accident. 

The best thing you can do is if you come home and feel something is amiss, GET OUT IMMEDIATELY to a safe place and call the police. It's helpful if your safe place has a good visual on your home but so YOU can see THEM and not the other way around.

Your dog is a pup, I feel certain that she will grow to be a good alert dog and that is all a person needs, that and a phone to call the Police. I wasn't afraid to be home alone before I got my dogs, but I was a bit jumpier when hearing something outside. I have them now so I don't worry about things outside unless the dogs are telling me to pay attention. 

It's actually our responsibility to protect our dogs, not the other way around. A GSD has protection in it's genes, which is one reason I feel they have a bad rep whether yours is trained in protection or not, many people automatically consider them vicious or dangerous.


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## akgriffin (Feb 5, 2008)

God i love how some of yall ppl say 'put your money into moving into a better neighborhood, or by cleaning up your neighborhood".
Lets put this into real life please, i agree, if u can if you can start working to clean up your area others might help. now to moving, we got meth makers living in 200k houses and dealing out of them. I like sinnic, do not see a dog just as a pet, but also a tool, like a horses, mules, cattle. I have also had a dealer house across the street and have paid some prices for running them out, car tires flattened, windows broken, ppl tryin to break in. I say, teach her to bark, teach her to look, but also get your chl and go with her, protect her and your property and family. i would also suggest getting a house alarm too. I got one and 2 months later someone jimmied our basement door tryin to get in and the alarm went off, granted if i would of had a good gsd dog that would alert me to someone, i would of been there at the top of the stair with a shotgun full of 000. I also have to state, that trying to type your meaning without nuances is hard. I now have a 3yr old gsd, will she attack, naw she would probly run, will she alert me by making a little noise to let me know that someone is moving in the house, yea, cause she is catching my 14yr old son tryin to sneek out the house now.


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## RSXTSX (Mar 11, 2008)

My father had gotten Isabella when I was younger as a protection dog. He was in the Navy and would be gone a year at a time.She was great with the family and when people entered our house (friends, family, etc). I have nothing but fond memories of her. Granted I am 26yrs old now. She was great at keeping us protected on off base housing. We had an incident where she did have to protect us when someone broke in our home while we were all asleep and my father was away. We were located right outside the Naval Base in Florida.

From my personal childhood experience with living with a GSD that had pp training and used for pp purposes, there is nothing wrong with that at all. I plan to do the same with my "Isis". Everyone knows that when you train a dog for such a task that it costs money and time. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out and it seems that this man is smart enough to know that. If he wants to protect his family at night while he is away at work, then that's a great idea. I commend him for doing so. Too many times on here I see people giving there "negative" opinions on things they know very little little to nothing about. Why dont' people on here give him some references to some trainers in his area who can work with him so he can acheive his goal with his GSD? Telling him to get an alarm, gun, etc. is fine but that's not what he asked. There is nothing wrong with HAVING A GSD FOR PP. A GSD doesn't need to only work for police to provide protection for the family.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Well V-Shepherd the dog (non GSD) I had that was a PPD wasn't trained by a trainer, he was trained by himself basically to protect me. So I guess I have some experience with PPD's and I will stand by my statement that I think that they can be liability. I worked and worked hard on his OB work, he was fine as long as I was there to tell him to settle and it was a friend. I could tell him to attack my DH and he would, I could tell him to go find my DH and bring him to me and he would. That type of training takes time and time bonding.

Since I haven't worked with any PPD trainers I will not recommend one, nor will I encourage anyone to train their own PPD. The majority of people don't know how to train for every day obedience let alone the OB level needed with a PPD.

SiNNiK, no offense since I don't know you but I think people should really evaluate if they really need a PPD or if it just a cool replacement for an alarm system and cell phone. 

Val


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## RSXTSX (Mar 11, 2008)

I am not asking anybody to "Jump on the BandWagon" here and obviously your GSD wasn't correctly trained so there is a Huge behaviour difference between my Isabella (r.i.p) and your dog. I actually find it disturbing that your dog would attack your dh since he is a part of your pack right? Also you obviously didn't understand anything I said in the previous post. I did say that people do give negative "opinions" on things they understand very little or nothing about. If you don't want to help the guy out, then that's your business, but before you try to shoot something down that someone is looking answers for, you should either give him some information so he can be the best owner of a "properly" trained pp GSD or don't bother answering the question at all.

- having a ppd is NOT a cool replacement for anything. This shows me your immaturity to this subject.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

V-Shepherd as I stated it wasn't a GSD, and he wasn't trained. My dog would attck my DH on MY command, foud out by my careless use of the word. The god put him down on the ground and I called him off. This dog was MY protector and it didn't make a difference to him where it was family or not, if he was given the command he obeyed. The dog never had a problem with DH before or after that, it was my mistake.

So V-Shepherd can you tell me why you are so qualified to judge a dog you had never seen and why you are the expert at PPD.

Thanks for calling me immature I appreciate it at my age. By the way name calling is against board rules.

Val


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

There are so many people that I see DAILY and read about on various web boards such as this that they seem to honestly think they understand and can read dogs, their subtle body language, temperament, nerve and such and really have very little clue on what they are REALLY seeing. Whether it is a fearful dog that they deem is "being protective" or whatever but it makes me very skeptical. Many of these owners have been around so few dogs and they compare the dogs to "what they know". But when they take their dogs to a trainer who has had hundreds or THOUSANDS of different dogs that they have worked with and YEARS of training and experience to draw from and the trainer tells them the opposite is the truth, the trainer is usually never seen again because "the owner knew more". 

Seem very apparent in this thread. Some people just do not think they could possibly be wrong or that other people who have "been around the block" more times might have any type of clue about "their unique situation". I believe there is a term for this, close mindedness.


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## RSXTSX (Mar 11, 2008)

Where in this thread did he say he saw a trainer and he never seen the trainer again? I didn't see that at all. Once again, no one pays attention to what I wrote, Obviously. As far as me saying kudos to a man that wants to have his GSD doing pp for him and mainly his family because I have had "GREAT" experiences with one then saying I don't think I could possibly be wrong about that is just silly. (that's not name calling, that's the idea to me being silly). 
- I was just called being closed minded, yet I'm not going to say she called me a bad name. I know she feels that way about what I am writing. 
Who are you to say that this man will do that. How do you know? Are you a trainer? Then you should be giving HIM advice. 

and Wisc.Tiger, I know your dog wasn't a GSD. Typo obviously (read what i wrote after the hyphen). As far as the immaturity that you were showing me about the subject, that's how I felt you were being on the SUBJECT. I don't feel that I was calling you anything negative. It was geared to what you wrote.

SiNNiK - You do what you feel is best for your family. There are plenty trainer's out there who will be availabe when you are ready. I think you are a smart man and an responsible owner who will do whats best for you and your family. After all, it's YOUR GSD. With proper training you will have a wonderful pp GSD. Now back to your original post (before everyone got off subject for what you were asking), I think having Izzy find the milkbone is a wonderful game for her. Training her to search people is a whole different type of training and I would have fun now with the milk bones. When you are ready to start her "additional" training, then I'm sure you can work up to that.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

V-Shepherd,

Since you have taken so much time to respond. Why don't you take the time to tell us all what makes you so qualified when it come to PPD's?

Or again is that question me being to immature???

Val


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: V-ShepherdWhere in this thread did he say he saw a trainer and he never seen the trainer again? I didn't see that at all. Once again, no one pays attention to what I wrote, Obviously. As far as me saying kudos to a man that wants to have his GSD doing pp for him and mainly his family because I have had "GREAT" experiences with one then saying I don't think I could possibly be wrong about that is just silly. (that's not name calling, that's the idea to me being silly).
> - I was just called being closed minded, yet I'm not going to say she called me a bad name. I know she feels that way about what I am writing.
> Who are you to say that this man will do that. How do you know? Are you a trainer? Then you should be giving HIM advice.


If any of your post was to me directly- I was not speaking to or about any SPECIFIC person. I was speaking in broad, GENERAL terms. Perhaps you need to take your time to read and comprehend what is being written. Nothing of what I wrote was directed at you. 

However, since you brought up about not reading what YOU write you have done the same with other members posts. Reference above when a poster mentioned their _non professionally trained NON GSD dog who took the initiative to become a PPD_ and you made several references to that person's PPD GSD not being trained properly. This is a PERFECT example of what I was referring to in my GENERAL post- many people would have thought the dog mentioned was being "protective, courageous" or any other description and would have been wrong. This dog's reaction was more than likely fear based or possibly weak nerves or combination. Most "normal pet owners" would have been boasting about how wonderful and protective this dog was acting. As I mentioned in my GENERAL post- they would be wrong.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A six month old dog that shows protective tendencies would be a very rare thing indeed. So the potential for PPD _should_ be developed. 

Most likely, barking at the fence at strangers is fear aggression. A balanced, well-socialized six month old puppy should love every person he or she sees.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)




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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

A six month old acting protective would send me flying into an obedience class for intensive socialization and work. GSDs just aren't mentally developed enough to handle the stress of being a PPD and that means it's often fear-based. A good six month old would still be puppy-social. I would expect the natural suspicion to come out a few months later but not expect anything serious until around 18 months of age or so, depending on the lines. 



> Quote:Most likely, barking at the fence at strangers is fear aggression.


At this age, very likely.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomI work mids and my husband is gone all week driving truck...


Thank you for your post, it was a pleasure to read.




> Originally Posted By: akgriffinGod i love how some of yall ppl say 'put your money into moving into a better neighborhood...


Yeah, I'm working on getting that CHL at the moment. Glad to hear that the alrm worked well for you and that you are all safe.












> Originally Posted By: V-ShepherdMy father had gotten Isabella when I was younger as a protection dog.


Cool, thanks for the kind words and stickin up for me!












> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerSiNNiK, no offense since I don't know you but I think people should really evaluate if they really need a PPD or if it just a cool replacement for an alarm system and cell phone.
> 
> Val


Certainly no offense taken, and no, I also have a cell phone but no alarm since we are renting at the moment. Once we purchase a house, that will definately be corrected.




> Originally Posted By: V-ShepherdSiNNiK - You do what you feel is best for your family. There are plenty trainer's out there who will be availabe when you are ready. I think you are a smart man and an responsible owner who will do whats best for you and your family. After all, it's YOUR GSD. With proper training you will have a wonderful pp GSD. Now back to your original post (before everyone got off subject for what you were asking), I think having Izzy find the milkbone is a wonderful game for her. Training her to search people is a whole different type of training and I would have fun now with the milk bones. When you are ready to start her "additional" training, then I'm sure you can work up to that.


Thanks, I'll be sure to do that.




> Originally Posted By: Amaruq...many people would have thought the dog mentioned was being "protective, courageous" or any other description and would have been wrong. This dog's reaction was more than likely fear based or possibly weak nerves or combination...





> Originally Posted By: CastlemaidA six month old dog that shows protective tendencies would be a very rare thing indeed. So the potential for PPD _should_ be developed.
> 
> Most likely, barking at the fence at strangers is fear aggression. A balanced, well-socialized six month old puppy should love every person he or she sees.





> Originally Posted By: DianaMA six month old acting protective would send me flying into an obedience class for intensive socialization and work. GSDs just aren't mentally developed enough to handle the stress of being a PPD and that means it's often fear-based. A good six month old would still be puppy-social. I would expect the natural suspicion to come out a few months later but not expect anything serious until around 18 months of age or so, depending on the lines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I was relating the point that Izzy faced down some Mexican construction workers, I'd like to clarify a little.

There are some new apartments being built directly behind our house, I mean within 15 feet of our back fence. Last week there were 5 of them picking up trash and extra bits of 2x4's and they routinely got within 5 feet of our fence.

My neighbor to the left has three dogs, a Lab, a WGSD, and a Bull Terrier, all of which were barking their heads off. The Lab was barking to hear himself bark, the WGSD was spastic since he's afraid of trees, and the Bull Terrier, despite being only a few months old himself was barking like he meant it.

The neighbor to the right has a Great Dane that looks more like a giant Pitbull, and he was barking halfway between liking the sound of his voice and actually warning the construction workers to keep away from his yard.

Izzy stood in the middle between the neighbors yards and about 5 feet away from the back fence, just staring at the guys. One stopped and turned towards her and stared back at her over his sunglasses.

I was watching all this through the kitchen window and as I was about to go intervene, Izzy took two slow steps towards the guy then wham! hit the fence with her front paws and gave the fence two more shoves with her paws while staring at the guy. And she didn’t bark the entire time. Not a sound.

She just didn’t seem frightened of the guys. We go to the park and I ask people to come pet my dog, we meet other dogs and everybody has a good time, so I’m working pretty hard at socializing her and feel that she’s doing well.

Now for the hard part. I’ve mislead you by omission. I realize that by merely posting on this board I’ve alluded to Izzy being a GSD, but she is not. I came to this board after finding that there are no boards for her, and figured that the training wouldn’t be all that different. After all, when I had Chance with me, I came here a lot and there are several people who’s opinions I value and I have indeed heard from a couple of them on this thread, thank you for responding.

She is in fact a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I wanted another GSD, but the wife won because, well, “if the wife ain’t happy…. ain’t nobody happy.” I’ll have another GSD someday so I hope the mods won’t ban me from the forum for this breach of etiquette.

Like I said, I’ll get another GSD someday, but Wow! says it all about Izzy and the Ridgeback breed.

If I offended anyone here, I apologize.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

What I find offensive is that you feel it is neccessary to highlight the nationality of the construction workers . . . like in some ways, the fact that the workers were Mexican made Izzie's actions seem . . . more courageous? Justified?


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

If they were black, I'd call them black, if they were white, I'd call them white. They were Mexican, so I called them Mexican.

I feel sorry that you would be offended by a mere description of a group of people, however I am not sorry for calling them what they are.

I'm certain that they are not as offended as you seem to be.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SiNNiKIf they were black, I'd call them black, if they were white, I'd call them white. They were Mexican, so I called them Mexican.


or if they're contractors, you call them contractors


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

I wonder if this response from people whenever color is brought up is what Attorney General Eric Holder was refferring to when he said we were a "Nation of cowards". I'm not calling anyone a coward here, nor am I one, but those were his words.

Here are some more of his words:

"Eric Holder, the nation's first black attorney general, said Wednesday the United States was "a nation of cowards" on matters of race, with most Americans avoiding candid discussions of racial issues. 

In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said the workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives. 

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said. " /end quote.

I don't feel as though I'm putting them down when I acknowledge their heritage, but the last two posts indicate that I'm not being a good American because I don't pretend not to notice the color of people's skin.

I wish you wouldn't treat me like that.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: SiNNiK
> I don't feel as though I'm putting them down when I acknowledge their heritage, but the last two posts indicate that I'm not being a good American because I don't pretend not to notice the color of people's skin.
> 
> I wish you wouldn't treat me like that.


me = not offended. just to clear that up!

i believe that the point i was making, was a bit different than the point castlemaid was making (which she elaborated on). so i can only speak for myself and ask you first not to 'group me' with another poster who may or may not have had the same intentions or motivations as me... and second, not to put words in my mouth... "a good American"? really?









i'm not color blind, nor do i pretend to be, however - i mention race, ethnicity or nationality when its _relevant_. i'll repeat... relevant... which i didnt see in either of the post in which you made reference to the workers being Mexican (assuming that you've had a conversation with these workers to in fact verify that they are from Mexico and not Guatemala, El Salvador, etc or *gasp* America).

if they're the same race as you... would you really have pointed that out?

if you can explain the relevance, then my argument ends there. thats all i'm saying.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

*Camerafodder*, you cracked me up! How perfect and right on!









*SiNNiK*: As far as the action your dog took, to me was a DOG action, doesn't matter if it's a GSD or a toy poodle. The fact that no one on this board saw the scenario even though you've described what happened - not being there is always a disadvantage when trying to figure out what actually went on w/any dog. All anyone can give is their best guess. Being that there were so many other dogs reacting around your dog plus the strangers on the other side of the fence, my best guess is your dog reacted in fear. 

When they are fearful, many will make the first move in an attempt to make what's feared go away - scare it off. They puff themselves up and act tough when the're really terrified inside. It sounds like there was quite a bit of noise and ongoing commotion - *plenty* to scare a young pup, especially since she was out there by herself without you (her pack leader) by her side. I am no expert but someone mentioned that finding a pup that was truly reacting as a protector would be a rare find. She's a baby yet. 

It's very very VERY easy to mistake fear based aggression for protection. Dogs that are scared out of their wits wind up labeled as aggressive, vicious etc ... when they're not. 

Anyway, I digress ... the point is you want to keep your family safe which is commendable and the right thing to do. My personal opinion is that to use your dog to do this, is the wrong way to go about accomplishing your goal. You could very well wind up with more problems than good out of the whole thing. And someone mentioned liability - consider how sue-happy our society is ... if your dog misinterprets a friend or aquaintance and bites that person ... take it from one who's been there, it's not something you want to happen. Dogs interpret things differently than humans do.

Consider that there are people who can't get homeowners insurance just because they have a certain breed of dog. Their dog may be the biggest wimp walking the face of the earth but if it's a protective dog breed, they can't get insurance. Some insurance companies will insure you, but it costs so much that people can't afford to take out the rider. Then they have to make a choice, their house or their dog which is a whole 'nother topic.

I have worked in law enforcement for 24 years. I don't want to see you, your family OR your dog pay the price for some dufus decides he's gonna burgle your house one night. What he takes, what he destroys in your house is property and can all be replaced. None of that is worth the lives of your family OR your dog. I've been told by police officers and others in law enforcement that if a burglar hears even a small dog barking inside a house, they'll go find another house to burgle. Any dog is a deterrant just by it's presence and it's bark.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I was trying to edit my post above but got locked out - I was referring to Camerafodder's comment on calling contractors contractors --- that's what I found amusing and an appropriate comment.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom...that's what I found *amusing* and an *appropriate* comment.


and thats exactly what i was going for! unfortunate that it was misinterpreted.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SiNNiK
> ...


Great, me neither.










> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> i believe that the point i was making, was a bit different than the point castlemaid was making (which she elaborated on). so i can only speak for myself and ask you first not to 'group me' with another poster who may or may not have had the same intentions or motivations as me... and second, not to put words in my mouth... "a good American"? really?


I re-read my post and don't see where I inferred that you said anything at all, so we don't have a problem there either.



> Originally Posted By: Camerafodderi'm not color blind, nor do i pretend to be, however - i mention race, ethnicity or nationality when its _relevant_. i'll repeat... relevant... which i didnt see in either of the post in which you made reference to the workers being Mexican (assuming that you've had a conversation with these workers to in fact verify that they are from Mexico and not Guatemala, El Salvador, etc or *gasp* America).


You and I have a different take on things i guess, but I appreciate the opportunity to see things from your perspective. Thanks.



> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> if they're the same race as you... would you really have pointed that out?


Yuppers.



> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> if you can explain the relevance, then my argument ends there. thats all i'm saying.


We share differing views, thank you for sharing yours.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Camerafodder
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Riley's Mom...that's what I found *amusing* and an *appropriate* comment.
> ...


Just wanted to let you know the value of this statement hasn't escaped unnoticed, I just forgot to humor hat on.









Sorry.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

Aloha, All, Here is my 2cents

THIS IS SILLY

Frank


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## Rhoades (Nov 17, 2008)

Ok I will admit I have not read all of the replies yet just thought I would toss my two cents in. I work for a large metro PD and have done numerous searches with our K9 dept. They will NOT search without the handler and at least one extra cop alongside, and very often in front of the handler, in order to provide lethal cover for the dog and handler. If they wont search without the ability to apply instant lethal force I dont think its wise for you to do it either. 

Teach the dog to bark, and call the cops.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

Thank you Rhoades, that's something to consider.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I think my dogs would know if something were wrong in the house from the door, If they started growling, hackling, or showed any unusual reaction at the door I would call them out and leave, I have a regular size house and they seem to find any smell,(cat puked in the bedroom) etc, from the door so the noses are pretty strong and a stranger's smell they would notice, or hopefully a gas or smoke smell too. Just my 2 cents.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

Ok, so I'm new and I really don't have a lot to add to what has already been said, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I've read through the posts and have one comment to make:

I highly suggest renting the 1989 movie K-9. I watched it as a child it broke my heart. I understand that GSDs are protective dogs. I think as a general breed characteristic, with enough bonding they will be more protective than many of us prefer them to be. I know Bella alerts over anything remotely threatening, and I can only pray that I have trained her well enough to come even in the case of an intruder, because I can't imagine how I would feel if our time together was cut short because she was concerned for my safety (especially when I have guns and ammo that would protect us both).


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: trudyI think my dogs would know if something were wrong in the house from the door, If they started growling, hackling, or showed any unusual reaction at the door I would call them out and leave, I have a regular size house and they seem to find any smell,(cat puked in the bedroom) etc, from the door so the noses are pretty strong and a stranger's smell they would notice, or hopefully a gas or smoke smell too. Just my 2 cents.


Thanks trudy.












> Originally Posted By: mmarieOk, so I'm new and I really don't have a lot to add to what has already been said, and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I've read through the posts and have one comment to make:
> 
> I highly suggest renting the 1989 movie K-9. I watched it as a child it broke my heart. I understand that GSDs are protective dogs. I think as a general breed characteristic, with enough bonding they will be more protective than many of us prefer them to be. I know Bella alerts over anything remotely threatening, and I can only pray that I have trained her well enough to come even in the case of an intruder, because I can't imagine how I would feel if our time together was cut short because she was concerned for my safety (especially when I have guns and ammo that would protect us both).


Well I appreciate your input. Also something for me to think about. I've kept the training up and we're up to two rooms now, not so much for 'house clearing' training but I figure I can turn into a different behaviour later if I want.

Thanks for all the info.

Izzy


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

Well I appreciate your input. Also something for me to think about. I've kept the training up and we're up to two rooms now, not so much for 'house clearing' training but I figure I can turn into a different behaviour later if I want.

Thanks for all the info.
[/quote]

If you're looking for something else to turn the behavior into, it would probably be good exercise for the dog when no one is home. Put your dog outside and hide some treats around (places that aren't obvious, like the center of the floor, but aren't so hidden that she'll make a mess getting to it) and then when you leave you can give her the command to search for her treats. It could be a fun way to keep her mind off the fact that you are not home and keep her mind active so she's not bursting with energy when you walk back in.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

what's LEO? i had a trainer that taught her dog to go upstairs and go under the bed if someone broke in her house. her thinking was if you hear this dog barking and you continue to enter the house then you must be able to over power the dog.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you don't have to live near the projects to be robbed or murdered
or whatever else? you hear about things happening in the trailer parks, the suburbs and the country.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

you don't have to spend $50,000 for a protection trained dog.


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## mmarie (Feb 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: doggiedadwhat's LEO? i had a trainer that taught her dog to go upstairs and go under the bed if someone broke in her house. her thinking was if you hear this dog barking and you continue to enter the house then you must be able to over power the dog.


LEO = Law Enforecement Officer

and i LOVE that idea, because its true--if someone is willing to break in when they can hear/see an angry GSD barking, they obviously have something that makes them think they will win that battle.


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## SiNNiK (Sep 10, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: mmarie ...(especially when I have guns and ammo that would protect us both).


And kudos for being armed and willing to defend yourself. IMO, Everyone should.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I can't believe so many people are beating you with a stick over this. I'm pretty sure that I don't think more practically than the next person, because those posts AGAINST what you proposed don't make sense to me. I must be misunderstanding your OP, because I think you'd be WAY better off teaching her to sniff out house, because at least she'd be prepared. Much safer for you AND her. Let me try putting this in a real life context here, so someone can correct what I seem to misunderstand about your OP:

Scenario 1 - Your Dog as a Typical Pet

You come home and, unbeknownst to you and your dog when you walk in, someone's in your house. Possible Result: You could get harmed and so could your dog.

Scenario 2 - Your Dog Trained to "Sniff Out"

You come home and, unbeknownst to you and your dog when you walk in, someone's in your house. Your dog quickly sniffs out the intruder. Possible Result: You could get harmed and so could your dog.

I don't see the difference in reference to it being more of a risk to you or your dog, if she were trained to sniff out your house.

I do, however, see that in Scenario 2, your dog would know to check things out instead of just plopping itself down in front of the fireplace without a care in the world, then you and your dog becoming blind-sided by an intruder.

Additionally, if your dog knew to look around, it would be able to alert you to danger SOONER than if she didn't know to check things out, so you would be safer, as much as "safe" can be in such a situation.

Granted, alot of GSDs would detect something amiss naturally, but I think that to be able to do so on command, or you teaching yours to sniff out your house every time you come home with them could only be a benefit to you both, because you would know sooner rather than later that something's amiss, so how could Scenario 2 NOT be better? I don't get it.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

I should add that what Rhoades describes above is a K9 going into a house with a job in mind, typically searching for an alleged perpetrator of some kind. The dog is placed on high alert, the officer/handler is prepared to use deadly force, etc., and that's a significant difference from your dog sniffing out your house when you come home.

I think what you're talking about is a lower-stress situation where you're NOT placing undue stress upon your dog EVERY SINGLE TIME you come home. The hiding the treat thing might be a good way to go initially, just to get the dog to go into each and every room. I mean, let's face it, like some have said above, if your GSD goes into, say, your bedroom looking for a treat (or later out of habit without a treat), and discovers someone in there, your dog is sure to alert you in some way, even if it were a chicken and ran to you for safety. You would know something's amiss, and be better off.

So, your dog does not necessarily need to be protection trained for you to get some form of "sniffing out" accomplished. Use your imagination to get the sniffing trained. Heck, this way, even the trigger-happy folks can still have the opportunity to shoot someone themselves, if that's what they prefer.


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## Blacryan (Feb 11, 2009)

I havent read the whole thread, quite a number of post but not all of them.

Im not quite sure where everybody is getting this idea that a alarm system is going to save them...

First off alarm systems are a joke. I had a alarm system before... I came home it was set off no police... I go inside not quite sure why it went off, find everything fine. I call up my alarm people, why is my alarm going off? They said they saw it and were in the process of notifing the police they would be on there way. about 35 minutes later police show up. 

All I have ever read is bad things about alarms, mainly because they provide a false sense of security. 

I feel too many people rely on '911', they feel that is going to protect them.

New's flash the average response time in the US is what 6-7mintues but that can VARY between some huge numbers depending on your loction. but that is the ideal average number from my understanding. 

6-7 minutes is a longggg time when you are in a life or death situation. Ever heard the saying, "When seconds count, police are only minutes away?" Consider it.

The police are not there to protect you, in fact they have no duty to protect. They are there to solive crimes after the fact, and if they happen to get there or intercept while a crime is happening to bring it to a halt for the 'community' not you. They write crime reports. Sometimes they solve crimes.

You cant rely on anybody for your own safety and the safety of your family. You need to take the initiative and do it yourself. If you can train your dog in some way shape or form to assist you in keeping yourself and your family safe, then by all means... have at it. But dont live in this alternate reality where you believe your cellphone, police and alarm system are going to save you. 

Im not talking to anybody specifically, just in general. This is probably the pro gun side of me speaking... but it is reality... 

Also it doesnt matter where you live, how low the crime statistics are in your area... crimes happen and criminals are there. Dont rely on the, "It will never happen to me".

"Far better to carry a gun your whole life, and not need one. 
Then to need one and not have one!"

"Far better to teach your dog a skill and not need to use it. Then to need him to know it, and not be able to use it."


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## FredD (Jul 5, 2009)

"Barking". It's the same as a siren or alarm. Best way to show danger. Do not send the dog in. Protect yourself and the dog. Call 911, they are the "Best" in that situation. GSD's will try their best to protect you or their property, and may "Die" for it. Do you want that? The old saying, "Be safe, not sorry". I love my dogs to much to send them into danger, knowing they would do anything for me...


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: FredD"Barking". It's the same as a siren or alarm. Best way to show danger. Do not send the dog in. Protect yourself and the dog. Call 911, they are the "Best" in that situation. GSD's will try their best to protect you or their property, and may "Die" for it. Do you want that? The old saying, "Be safe, not sorry". I love my dogs to much to send them into danger, knowing they would do anything for me...


Especially since the type of training the OP was looking for months ago when this topic started is more than the "average" dog owner can do on their own. It takes professional training and LOTS of followup. I would never send my dog into a house to clear it. If I suspect something I WOULD call 911 and wait in my RUNNING vehicle until they arrived or drive away and wait for them to come.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I know it has been said so many times NOT to do this, but I thought I'd add:

If you were to send her in because you sensed a presence, she gallops in thinking she's doing her game again, comes around a corner and startles a burglar, he doesn't have a gun, but takes it onto himself to beat and strangle your dog, you, outside presumably, hear your dog's screeches, what are you going to do? Sit there and let her die? Call the police? Yell into the house? What? 
Or better yet, she dashes in, catches the 14 year old idiot or 200lb grown man who broke into your home and attacks... Now what...? Call the police? Call her off - but wait, she's not trained, she might not be called off. Do you think she'd bark a few times and he'd run away? Maybe nip or tear him a new one and he'd leave peacefully ?

If you feel something is wrong, call the police and let them know you think there is someone in your home, they will rush out and take care of it while you go a safe distance away. 

BTW, what kind of pup is she? Very pretty..


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

Problem with barking is that the dog needs to first discover that someone is in the house. Would you rather that happen while you're sitting on the couch watching TV, with your dog asleep at your feet? He, and possibly you, would be in a world of danger by then.

Trouble is with alot of opinions is that they come from people that have probably never had an intruder on their property before, so a lot of "If it happened to me, I would..." scenarios are pulled out of the air. Thinking about it is a good idea, but practical thinking should be employed, too, IMHO.

I love my dogs, too, but when push comes to shove, I want my dogs to try to protect me as much as I try to protect them. In fact, that's one reason I get GSDs, not lap dogs and not mutts. And, just because I am a PPD trainer, I don't necessarily train my personal dogs for protection, either, because IMHO a GSD has had that trait bred into its very core since its beginning.

I don't view my dogs as children, either; I view them as partners in my life. And, I spend alot of energy caring for them. They live a good life. So, when a time of danger arises, I EXPECT them to help, because THEY AND I could easily be in peril, if we don't do SOMETHING.

I've also had a real experience, and I believe my dogs helped save us all. They're smarter than most people think. I mean, they're not like police dogs that are trained to bite and hold even if the intruder is whacking them with a bat. They would surely be hurt or killed then. 

Most naturally protective dogs will smartly at least try to dodge an item being swung at them, similar to what a human does. In my eyes, they are better at protecting me than I am, so I want them to help, because I know firsthand from a real life experience that they can indeed be more effective than humans, and in my case they prevented the use of firearms, so there was no legal aftermath.

But, if I had had to use my gun, I guess I could've just buried the body.









So, I like your initial idea of teaching your dog to search and alert you.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

[Continued from above]

And, by the very fact that you'd be training the dog, it would be trained, so you can have it do whatever you wanted if it did find someone. And, you can indeed only train it using a game with treats, or whatever. They are NOT stupid, and they'll know when they happen upon an intruder. They'll know it's not part of the game, and react accordingly. In all likelihood, she will alert you quite well. When you hear her bark, just call her to come back to you. You can then call 911... or use your gun if you want.









The more I think about what you were initially thinking, even if she ran in fright upon discovering something amoss, she would come to you and you'd know that something was wrong ust by the way she came running to you, you know what I mean?


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Hey Sinnik,

I can see both sides here and when I started Kye in his PPT the trainer tested his prey drive and temperment. After he evaluated Kye he told me he would be extremely good for the training because not all GSD's have the right temperment for it. Immediately after this he pulled me to the side and made it very clear to me that in protection if you send your dog out you have to be willing to accept the reality that your dog might not return. When he said that to me it hit me like a ton of bricks as I was looking at Kye. He told me in a home invasion scenario the dog is giving your family those few critical seconds to remove themselves from harms way. But he told me thats the spirit of a German Shepherd they can and will lay down their life for their pack. Personally, I wouldnt leave my dogs side. If someone broke in and Kye nailed em you better believe I am right there punching and kicking. I pray and hope it never comes to that. I never ever want to see Kye bite someone.

I completely understand how everyone here is telling you to not put your dog in danger by teaching it to search the house. But I would rather have my dog find a hiding intruder than my youngster. The dog has a better fighting chance. But you can have your dog trained to search the house just make sure you do your homework on the trainer.

A few other things that would prolly help you is make sure you advertise that you have a GSD by having him outside with your children in the yard playing. Anyone looking to break in will most likely watch your house and when they know you have a GSD that might be all you need. Also never underestimate the sound of racking a 12 gauge, thats enough to make a thief think twice as well. I call my 12 gauge The Hall Cleaner lol.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

I love how the comments "If there isnt something right with the house then leave." It's not like a thief is going to be in the house with all the lights on, clean shaven with a grin on his face greeting you at the door. I mean if your precognitive senses are tip top then call the cops from the park on the way home. Unless the obvious signs are there a busted in door, broken window etc. Then call the cops.

The most likely situation is you will not know whats going on when you get home, you will have most likely already passed a few rooms on your way in before your spidey senses tingle.

The whole reason I picked a GSD is because 4 months ago I was up late, coping with just losing my father to lung cancer. And at 130am my doorbell goes crazy. I go to the door and no one is there. Five minutes later someone is outside my house banging on my windows, I look outside and I see someone running in my backyard. I bolted to the back doorwall to make sure it was locked. When I got there I came face to face with someone wearing a halloween mask staring at me through the glass less than 3 feet from me. Those seconds felt like a lifetime. And its an eery feeling I will never forget. I reached in my pocket and grabbed my phone and called the cops as the fella outside stands there staring at me. Then he starts screaming and banging on the glass. It took the police 8 minutes to get to my house, by then he was long gone.

The next day I took off work and bought Kye. Yes I have guns and I can use them, however my Girlfriend wouldnt even think to grab one and properly load it, I know she would panic. If I am not there I have peice of mind knowing Kye is there with her.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

It's interesting to see that you and I both have the same perspective, presumably because we both had face-to-face encounters, although mine was a bit different due to the fact that I actually engaged the intruder and had a 12 gauge riot gun leveled at him. Imagine my surprise when that didn't seem to phase him, but when not one, but TWO of my PPDs came out to "greet" him, he then backed off.

I'm sure you can agree that the real point here is that people without an unfortunate experience can suppose all kinds of things, but experience is really the only teacher. And, for me, the lesson was that GSDs are indeed something no one really wants to reckon with, and while some may not agree, I think you put it best when you said that a GSD is better-equipped to confront an intruder than a child, or even an adult, because in my hair-raising experience, even though I was prepared with a loaded firearm pointed directly at the intruder, it seemed that my dogs were more of a deterrent than I was.

Today, I own a different GSD who is NOT trained yet for protection. And, even though I am a protection trainer myself, I am not sure I am going to go down that path with her, either, because I'm quite confident that she will indeed protect my family regardless of if she's specifically trained to do so or not. With that said, she is very solid on obedience, and I have no doubt that she will come to me when called, even under a circumstance as stressful as facing an intruder.

And, that is why I think the OP is onto something regarding having the dog go check things out upon returning home. I, personally, don't think the dog needs to be protection-trained, either, to accomplish what the OP wants, because you can be sure that nearly ANY sound dog would offer up some sign, if not a full-blown alert, if it found something amiss when going through the house, even if it were only going through the house as a game. And, as I said before, it's better to find someone in the house upon your return, rather than find him later, after you've already settled inside the house! Yikes! You and your dog are probably more likely to get hurt, or worse, at that point, because when an intruder comes upon you then, he could easily be worried for his own sake and do whatever it takes to escape.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Exactly, in my case I just sprinted to the back door to make sure no one was getting inside because I was on the patio about 2 hours earlier. Even in that state I didnt grab my gun which now that I think of it I wish I would have taken the 10 steps to grab it. I have a Spaz 12 and it looks insanely mean. 

I think some people think that if you pull a gun they will try to call your bluff on if you will use it. Personally I think people watch too many movies and think they have a chance against a firearm. I dunno, but I also have extra peice of mind because I am a heavy sleeper, Kye is not.


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## MrLeadFoot (Jan 4, 2009)

In my case the person followed us home and cornered us up against the house in our driveway. At the time I happened to have contract work at a private airport deterring drug drops, and always kept a Remington 3000 riot gun under the seat during that stint.

But, you know what? All the time I stood there with it aimed at the guy, the thought of me actually having to pull the trigger was a haunting and daunting thought, which threw me for a loop, because prior to that I always told myself that I would never hesitate to protect myself. Thoughts of taking another person's life coursed through me, and probably even caused me to hesitate, and it was in those moments that my girlfriend let the dogs out of the house, and of course, dogs are primal, and they would've had no hesitation or regard for that intruder had they been allowed to use THEIR weapons. I always thought I'd have to back them up, but they ended up backing ME up!









So, I think it was a GOOD thing you didn't take those extra steps to get your weapon. Anything could've happened then. You could've been shot when going for your gun, and you could've shot tthem, and they could've been a neighbor's kid pulling prank while high on drugs. Right or wrong, I think ANY "normal" human would be traumatically affected after a shoot, whether it was justified or not, but I bet there would be little remorse if the dog did the work for them.


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## slaen (Apr 27, 2009)

Yeah, I agree. I am glad nothing happened. But I hope there isnt a repeat encounter either. I hear you on the thoughts that enter your mind. The entire time it was going on my mind was racing and I had always told myself that I would be ready for a situation like that when it happens. But my mind wasnt coherent. I was actually 100% scared, I mean it wasnt as escalated as your encounter but there was only a plane of glass seperating me from what appeared to be someone with serious issues.

Glad to hear you walked away from that one.
I once heard a K9 officer say if I make the decision to use my firearm I cant call my bullet back, the dog I can.


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## Lomax Anderson (Jul 17, 2009)

My GSD Mason searches naturally and is protective of our pack...I would not knowingly put him in harms way...But I won't be the one calling the police either ,my wife can handle that but the dogs stay with the rest of my family ...If I am not able to stop them the next layer will be a 85# GSD and my wife with her friends ,Mr Smith and Mr Wesson. This is MY choice and it is how it is.
Now if some litle kid gets lost then he will be on the frontl ine cause he will find them.But that is his place in Life ,protect the weaker members and find those who need it.My granddaughter plays hide and seek all the time and it wears them both out
A lot people seem to be very sensitive ... to each there own


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I know my dog will protect from intruders. why? because we've had someone try to break in our house before.

I was sleeping (have you ever woke up because something didnt feel right??) the dog was awake, standing at the end of the bed, head up hackles raised. He looked at me, then walked into the kitchen, stopping every couple steps to listen. I realized later that what he heard was someone jiggling the door handle in the kitchen.

He calmly walked over shoved the blind aside and did this bark/growl that Ive never really heard before from him. Guy hit the glass of the door with his fist and I thought the dog was going to tear the door off trying to get to him. I was on the phone with 911, so I saw the car peeling out of my driveway. Hubby was at the time working nights. Cops finally showed up almost an hour later. 500sq mile county, only 3 officers on duty at night. Now there are only 2. 

If someone were in the house when we came home would we know it? absolutely. would I let my dog go in the house? not on your life. It's not his job to catch bad guys. It's his job to alert me that something is wrong. I don't have anything in there that can't be replaced. 

Now, if my kids were in danger? I wouldn't be able to stop Rayden from protecting them. Well, unless I wanted to shoot him myself. My youngest was scared by a snake; Rayden was about 9 months old at the time. He tore the screen door off it's hinges when she started screaming. Our girls aren't allowed to go outside without him because there is a *censored* that lives in the neighborhood. I know that I can't keep them locked in the house and I can't keep them in sight 24/7. 

My husband is ex-LEO. 99% of the time, thieves/perverts/rapists are looking for an easy target. They don't want to put THEMSELVES in any danger. A barking dog, an alarm that the neighbors can hear, motion-triggered lights are all some of the best deterrents that there are. The other 1%?? they will kill you, your dog, your family just because. they might be psychopaths, crack heads, mentally ill. In the last case, then YOU are the one facing the liability if your dog bites them.


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## Lomax Anderson (Jul 17, 2009)

Well said ...my grandkids don't go outside without Mason...but when he starts fussing we come running..


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