# Arko Honest



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Can anyone give me any info on him? I have been researching him for a while and the information I am finding is scarce and mostly about his offspring


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so many years ago I spoke with Jan Hrouda , a Canadian who owned Arko Honest . Jan Hrouda - German Shepherd Dog Club of Calgary that would be your best source for information .

My experience with Arko would be through progeny of his son Stormfront's Brawnson.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Send me a pm


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

I have a girl whose grandmother was linebred 2-2on brawnson- carlie vom haus fleming. My girl is Macro. Her pedigree is in my signature. I too, am curious.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

carmspack said:


> so many years ago I spoke with Jan Hrouda , a Canadian who owned Arko Honest . Jan Hrouda - German Shepherd Dog Club of Calgary that would be your best source for information .
> 
> My experience with Arko would be through progeny of his son Stormfront's Brawnson.


Another one of his sons, Bill Bethme, is my dogs grandsire.

I know the dogs several generations back on his dams side, but other then his sire, I never saw the dogs from his sires side. Now that he is getting old, I'm curious about the dogs that produced him. Since this line, to the best of my knowledge, dies with him I thought it would interesting research. 
Bud has never and will never produced any pups, I am not a breeder and he's now almost 12. 
But it would be interesting to know if it was possible to get a pup from similar lineage someday.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Arko would be the great grand sire of your dog?

why not post the pedigree of your Bud


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

carmspack said:


> so many years ago I spoke with Jan Hrouda , a Canadian who owned Arko Honest . Jan Hrouda - German Shepherd Dog Club of Calgary that would be your best source for information .
> 
> My experience with Arko would be through progeny of his son Stormfront's Brawnson.


Was he the breeder of Brawnson-that is such a great pic of Brawnson


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

His breeder passed away before the papers were ever transferred. I never got them.
I only know as much as I do because I worked for him for many years and handled most of pups he bred.
The agreement was that I would never sell, or give away the dog. I did not know when he gave me Bud that he was dying, he did. 
When I tried to get the ownership transfer completed his children threatened to take the dog, so I dropped it. But I have now had him for 11 years, it's doubtful they want him still, or that any court would take him from me.


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## GSDNVR (Sep 13, 2013)

I don't know about Arko but I would love to know what you find out. I had a dog out of Arko on the sire side. I will never have another dog that had the natural discernment and balance that this dog had. He spoiled me in everyway. 

Not sure what he got from Arko but maybe the more I learn about Arko, the more I could tell. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2002366-kane-bethmezstimson



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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

This is what I don't really understand. This dog appears in pedigrees from everywhere, yet no one talks about him. Was he horrible? 

To clarify, Bud was with me for almost 3 years as a foster/rehab placement. He had been horrifically abused and was initially scheduled to be PTS until I intervened on his behalf and begged my boss to give me a shot at rehabbing him. It was a long and sometimes scary road. He was prone to turning on me and everyone else who got near him, he was in utterly terrible condition and had injuries we weren't sure he would recover from. 
I would guess that it was when my boss was diagnosed that he made the decision to turn Bud over to me permanently. He had been the father figure in my life for many years and we were very close. Sadly he had not as much time as he thought and left many things unfinished, the transfer of ownership included.
Since Bud was a pet only, I was not concerned. I only started asking when I got curious about Hunters lineage. But at the first hint of 'we want the dog', I backed off. I had had Bud for over 5 years at that point, and no one was taking him from me. Not to mention that this was the last litter and the only thing I had left of the man who taught me so very much. 
Buddy was a gift and a legacy, and he is mine. His breeder intended it to be so, and I let him down in so many ways. He wanted the last of his breeding with someone who loved the dogs as much as he did. Not with someone who would use him for an easy paycheck.
I would love to someday be able to get another pup from similar lines. Last fall I lost my beloved Saboteur and Bud is no youngster. But it seemed odd to me that a stud that appears so frequently in pedigrees is so little mentioned, I thought maybe there was some problem with him. But it seems he was solid in temperament and structure, just a bit of a knothead to train.
So, a lot like my Buddy.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Not a great pic, been a mucky spring. But this is Bud, 3 days ago or so


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## GSDNVR (Sep 13, 2013)

Looking at Arko pedigree

Ingo - one of the best producing studs ever 


Xanto


Astor -underrated/under appreciated by the "pedigree experts" in my opinion 


All 3 were well known studs who produced some good dogs (especially ingo) 


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## GSDNVR (Sep 13, 2013)

Although Arko had sport titles
His lines are the old style non prey crazy gSD I yearn for today 


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

He wasn't horrible at all !

His temperament was right up there , easy going "normal" dog --- then 100 points in protection -- he always made an impression there.
*Arko Honest, CKSP 70844, SchH 3, IPO 3, FH, T: 5CV5/55, velmi dobrý, HD-B (Imp. Czech Republic)*

His temperament was good natured & easily manageable, brave, and hard against threat with very good sharpness and hardness.

There are always things to consider . 

Always risks versus benefits.

Arko was himself a fast normal coming out of a female line similar or with unknown.
I think he produced on average an "average" set of hips . Some good , some not passable . He did produce great temperament and work ability .
Perhaps a bit earlier or in the same "era" there was Uran Wildsteiger Land who produced some pretty severe bad hips - as reported in Das Schaferhund Magazin . The temperament was not equal to Arko's though.

There is no comparison to the number of litters that Uran to Arko's smaller number. Uran has much greater gene pool presence than Arko will ever have .

Now, if you are interested in his lines, the thing to do would be to look at his best combinations. Who is producing what you want in the greatest amount with the least or minimized risk for hips or other .

I see that Brawnson's ZW is creeping up and is over the 100 range .
Leerburg Webboard | Stormfront's Brawnson
Take the good ones and breed them carefully.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

All this information is great, thanks Carmen for that thread on Brawnson.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I truly appreciate all of the information. 
Carmen thank you for that link.

Buds sire, Hunter, was a wonderful dog. He was a good natured, easy going bear of a dog with a hard hit and a solid bite. People were deceived by his size and nature, but he was quick to gauge a threat and act on it. He did show great judgement, and was always sweet when it was needed. I had a real soft spot for him, which is why I got curious.
Bud on the other hand, has a head like a rock, took forever to mature and is generally a tough dog to work with. But, he took to obedience like a star and is one of the happiest dogs I have ever seen, with family. And once you actually manage to drill something into his little brain, he looks really good doing it. He was long ago ruled out for work, he's a bit unstable, but I have no doubt that he could have with a different start. Both Bud and Hunter had good hips, although I don't recall the exact results, I believe Hunters were 'normal' and Buds were 'normal' as well. I can tell you that at nearly 12 Bud can still go over a six foot fence in a blink, so I don't think his hips bother him much.


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

Jan purchased Arko (Alco was his call name) from a young man after seeing the dog trial. The young man had to give up his dog sport because of family business commmitments. "Alco" was substanial in body, big head, but medium size. We were spectators at the trial he recieved his first 100 in protection. If memory is correct it was at the GSDC of Edmonton and I think Frank Mensing was the judge? Although I could be wrong and it may have been at the GSDC of Calgary, (sorry folks, that was a long time ago). We also saw Brawnson's mother get her SchH1. Back to Alco. The dog was a tough one, super tracker, really nice obedience on him, everything quick and snappy. Protection he was about 60-65% prey and the rest defense/fight. He would bark all the way around each blind during the search. Super intense barking in the blind, but again, a little more prey oriented. Blind search was always lightening fast and precise. Test of courage was always fast and hard. Overall a nice strong dog, perhaps these days he would have been trained a little different, but those were the times back then. He handled a tremendous amount of pressure both from the handler as well as in the rigorous training schedule he maintained.

When the breeder (Dave Grant) bred his bitch Maya to Alco, the agreement was that she was to be titled to SchH1 before the end of the year, which she was (not pretty, but more due to training than dog), Rudi Meitzner was the judge for that trial at the GSDC of Edmonton. Jan was to get a pick puppy from the litter, which he did, "Stormfront's Bobby". There was some animosity over the fact Jan was not allowed to use his own kennel name on his puppy. Brawnson was sold to a very nice man named Gary, Gary was green to schutzhund but put his time in prior to getting a pup, and was already a dedicated member of the GSDC of Calgary when Brawnson became his. He was instructed to let him be a pup, no manners, no control etc. Brawnson capitalized on that and as he grew and matured he began to fight the handler about any manners/discipline. It wasn't long and Gary could no longer handle Brawnson, he was afraid of him, having been bit more than once. Brawnson went back to the breeder. Dave had many rounds with him but could never break through. Brawnson ended up at Ken Lichlider's kennel in IN, where Mike Diehl eventually ended up with him. Incidentally, Mike also ended up with Gary's male "Kutter v Landesberg" (from Peter Tse's breeding to Brawnson) when Gary passed away. Peter bred his bitch from Jan's breeding "Iska Ergebirge" to Alco as well, but ended up selling the bitch he had kept for himself, "Diva" (?). The most common complaint about Alco as a producer was inconsistency in size and temperment. You could line up almost all the littermates from Iska's breeding in fact and not see any similarities. That seemed to be the rule for most of his progeny. Many had crazy high prey drive though. If memory is correct the hip production from Alco wasn't that hot either. But again, that was many years ago, so I may be fuzzy on that. 
One day we'll get around to sorting through old video tapes and find footage of some of these now "legendary" dogs and upload them, but time isn't plentiful for that just now. Actually, a very good friend of ours was on the field with Peter Tse as the helper, and Jan sent Alco for a long bite, the video showed a fantastic side to the dog coming at the helper. She also went in the blind behind Peter and got some great footage of his machine gun style barking in the blind. I hope this provides you with some of the info you were seeking.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Thank you! That is exactly what I was looking for. Hearing that description, Bud has taken a lot more from his sires side then we thought. I would love to hear any other stories you may have. Anytime. Feel free to PM me.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Me too.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

coldwetnose , excellent post .

Wasn't Dave Grant a CKC show type breeder . I believe Linda Shaw knew him and I seem to think this is what she had said. 
Seemed to me that the "working breeding" he did with Arko was a big deviation . No other dogs registered under Stormfront's ? 

I am curious about Jan's dog Stormfront's Bobby . Any knowledge there.
Jan had some pretty good dogs . Also asked him about his Lork .
Western Canada had much more vigorous working dog activity than out east .


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## coldwetnose (Jan 22, 2010)

Incorrect, Dave & his wife (Susan?) were very involved in schutzhund. In fact Dave was(is?) a schutzhund judge. 

I don't believe they did much breeding, if memory is correct they sold the Maya bitch after that litter. No idea what became of Bobby, obviously he didn't turn out to be a good caliber of working dog or Jan would have kept him.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

oh , thanks for letting me know this. Must have him confused with someone else. The conversation goes way back to when my female Kohl was bred to Brawnson . That is over 10 years ago now.


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