# BIS Manhattan 1987



## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

I had never seen Manhattan, who took Best in Show at Westminister in 1987, in anything other than still photos before.

Here he is being gaited to victory by Jimmy Moses! :grin2:

I know he's not the perfect dog conformation-wise, but he sure was a handsome boy!

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=Westminster%20Kennel%20Club%20Dog%20Show%20Manhattan

Maybe Carmen would like to comment on his strengths/weaknesses?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I’m no expert but I really like him. I remember watching the Westminster show on tv- I was 14.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

not bad - not ideal --- movement is loose 

but - what is very important to a GSD , who by the breeds very reason to be needs to have a grip -
necessary for control of sheep if needed and for bite work -- ?

this dog has a very poor , weak lower jaw --- 




can't be all fixated on side movement

did he make any impact on the "specialty" crowd ? NO

Westminster is all-breed . Specialty crowd gives a fist pump because GSD are in the public eye 
generating a brief increase in interest 

Other than that it was a shrug.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I saw Hatter in person. Super temperament, gorgeous dog, could have had a stronger head, but what stood out to me were his weak pasterns. 



I also loved Mystique and was upset that she never won BIS at Westminster.


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## Soldes (May 15, 2018)

You asked for their expert opinion Sunsilver…..:surprise:


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I loved Mystique too! I think she is still ranked the top winning show dog of all time. I like Hatter, but I agree about his pasterns.


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

Yes, pasterns and feet are weak (flat footed). And Carmen is right: he barely made a blip when it came to breeding. And of course, Mystique was infertile. Many people blamed Cheque drops, which were used to keep a female from coming into season when she's being campaigned for the show ring. 

Many ASL dogs had/have weak heads. It is sometimes hard to tell the bitches from the dogs without checking the hind end! That's not the way things are supposed to be according to the breed standard.

My favourite ASL dog is Dallas (Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes.) He actually got a herding degree, as well as being very successful in the show ring and at stud. He's the grandfather of my female, Star.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Yeah, well, Dallas is in a lot of pedigrees. All of mine have Dallas. 

My favorite current day male is Fritz. GV Ch Wolf Creek Galaxy of Merivern. Grand Victor from the veterans class at the 2016 National. He’s a pretty cool dog. Masculine. Carly’s mother is a full sibling to Fritz.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> Yeah, well, Dallas is in a lot of pedigrees. All of mine have Dallas.
> 
> My favorite current day male is Fritz. GV Ch Wolf Creek Galaxy of Merivern. Grand Victor from the veterans class at the 2016 National. He’s a pretty cool dog. Masculine. Carly’s mother is a full sibling to Fritz.


Right, everyone has Dallas. As far as pedigrees go, having Dallas is nothing special. If someone bragged about their dog having Dallas, I'd be hard pressed to keep a straight face. If their American show line dog DIDN'T have Dallas, then I'd be duly impressed.

How are the temperaments in the Wolf Creek lines? I've heard/read stuff about a "Phoenix" but I don't know if it was Wolf Creek Phoenix of Merivern. Not enough information to know that it was that dog.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I don’t know anything about Phoenix, but Fritz has a great temperament. Carly’s dam and Carly both have that same even disposition. I know several people with Fritz “kids” and they love them. I was at ringside one time with Sage, and Fritz was rolling around on the ground, playing with Scott’s wife, lol.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

dogfaeries said:


> I don’t know anything about Phoenix, but Fritz has a great temperament. Carly’s dam and Carly both have that same even disposition. I know several people with Fritz “kids” and they love them. I was at ringside one time with Sage, and Fritz was rolling around on the ground, playing with Scott’s wife, lol.


That solid even keel is so important IMO. There are a lot of Fritz progeny out there, so hopefully he's throwing it!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I like Dallas yes he is in a lot of pedigrees. I like megabucks to me he is moderate in structure - who looks masculine. Max has some Canadian blood and is grandson of megabucks. Dallas is Megabucks grand sire. I was hoping he won the Westminster that year!!!
https://youtu.be/1MiDDL2Pm6s


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

WateryTart said:


> Right, everyone has Dallas. As far as pedigrees go, having Dallas is nothing special. If someone bragged about their dog having Dallas, I'd be hard pressed to keep a straight face. If their American show line dog DIDN'T have Dallas, then I'd be duly impressed.
> 
> How are the temperaments in the Wolf Creek lines? I've heard/read stuff about a "Phoenix" but I don't know if it was Wolf Creek Phoenix of Merivern. Not enough information to know that it was that dog.


My dogs are Dallas free


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Xeph said:


> My dogs are Dallas free


And I am accordingly duly impressed.

He’s pretty ubiquitous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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