# Got a Prong Collar for 6m old, and didn't get the results...



## Adele (Sep 25, 2012)

Before I put it on, I allowed her to sniff it, see it & understand it in her own way.
We went for the walk... First few minutes she was dealing with the feel of it. During the
walk she was still forcing her ways, after 20 minutes she did one of her bolts only to squeel herself (she looked at me; as if I was the bad guy) than she did her explosive bolt of to the side and front 3 more times, squeeled again (must of hurt) she still kept on pulling just 30% less.... not to sure what to think of this...


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

would not have a clue as i have never had reason to use one but i would think that ANY new type of equipment requires a conditioning in phase for the dog. 

"...allowed her to sniff it, see it & understand it in her own way..."

then going on a merry walk and wondering why her first response after her first "bolt" was a "squeel" makes perfect sense to me, the dog has no idea what is going on or how it is supposed to respond imo you confused and scared yr dog and it is no further ahead in your solution to the problem, possibly further behind. 

i am guessing there is a correct way to introduce and condition yr dog to these gadgets, hopefully someone who knows the correct techniques will tell you.

good luck


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## Cstout (Mar 19, 2012)

If you are afraid of her having any pain from a prong, or worrying about her feeling like youre hurting her.. you could try a halti head harness. My pup pulled as he started getting older and it got to the point where i couldnt control him if he was too excited. I was looking hard into a prong, my only concern was if he still pulls with the prong on it seems like it would hurt his neck. I may be wrong, Ive never used one. And im sure there is a period where they need to get used to it. But, i ended up going with a halti. It fits around their snout and clips back behind their ears. It has a clip to go to the collar so if they slip it your still hooked to them. You clip the leash to a point under their muzzle. If they pull, it pulls their face down, and they cant see well ahead of them. So, its more of an annoyance to them. And my boy pulls WAY less. He is 80 lbs and I am 135 lbs, and I am definitely very in control when he is wearing his halti. I highly recommend looking into it.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I know using the prong seems basic, but you might want to consider a trainer for proper walking/heeling and using the prong. Did you placed the prong on correctly? High on the neck, below the ears, not tool loose and the prongs should not be placed under the neck, that where the rings should go so you don't damage trachea.

A quick "pop" is all you need. Are you encouraging your dog to heel or just letting it go wherever on a flexi leash? Although all dogs are different, I've used these on both my large dogs starting as puppies and they never showed any discomfort or made squealing noises. They do offer excellent control when used correctly.


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## Andrew Robert (Nov 19, 2010)

You just need to understand how it works. I think it would be best to start off with a loose leash walk. 

You need to get a 10ft or 12ft leash.

Obviously fit the prong collar correctly on the dog's neck and attach the leash. Pick a side for the dog to walk on. (i keep it the same every time i walk my dog so they won't get confused.) Throw almost all of the leash over your outside shoulder but keep enough for both hands to pull up on. (think of holding a baseball bat chest level.) Start to walk in a direction and has you feel your puppy stray make sure to correct with the collar at the precise moment. You need to be quick and on time so the dog understands who to follow. He/she will most likely yelp, but think of it as a cuss word from them. *&*# that hurts and i don't want it to happen again. Change directions slowly until you think your dog is getting it. walk in a "z" or a "square" or left, straight, left, straight... etc. once your pup understands he must follow you to avoid correction your walks will be much better. Once your pup understands what he needs to do you can try to bait him. Let him sniff the grass or look at whatever he wants to but change direction and correct right then for a good result. 

I'm not a trainer but learned how to do this from one. It worked for me. Be gentle with the correction but get your point across. Your pup is only six months but he is stronger than most dogs for his age so you need to make sure he feels it. You should probably hear a little yelp..

Hope this helps.
AR


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## Cstout (Mar 19, 2012)

Oh, forgot to say.... my pup HATED the halti at first. He still dislikes it, but its better. He would paw at it and rub on everything to get it off. He would rub his face on the ground and cry like a wuss becasue he didnt like the feel of it around his head and around his muzzle. But now he tolerates it because he knows when it comes out, it means its time for a walk.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

When I started any of mine on the prong it was properly fitted and I used the *dead ring, *not the live ring. That should be enough. No flexi leads if you are using one.

Robert has a good description of loose leash walking. Another one for me was to lock the lead in place on my body and not yank on the lead (for loose leash walking) but move my body and let the dog correct itself and learn to move on a loose lead relative to me. I would not go longer than a six foot lead, personally (leather or biothane)


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

I would also add, if you haven't taught your dog loose-leash walking at home or in an otherwise mostly distraction-free environment, start there first before moving onto a public street where there's going to be a lot of interesting stuff competing for your pup's attention. You need to make sure she really understands what you want before you start adding in distractions. You'll probably have to re-teach it out in public, but she'll be able to make the connection faster and with less confusion.

I'm not sure what you meant by "pulling," but if she was leaning into or consistently pulling against the collar (as opposed to hitting it and coming back to a loose leash), you weren't using it correctly. In that case, I'd definitely recommend a couple of sessions with a trainer to learn to time your corrections appropriately.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

A prong collar is not a magic tool. You need to work with someone who actually knows how to use one (preferably a trainer) to get the correct results.


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## julie87 (Aug 19, 2012)

I just started using prong collar since yesterday and my girl squeeled too, she pulled twice and didn't want to pull anymore and followed me every step. She paid attention to me for a change. Give it time sometimes just takes longer to learn, look up videos on how to and make sure you wear additional collar as the prongs can come off which happened to me!!!Good luck


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## Mooch (May 23, 2012)

This may help 
Leerburg On Demand | How to Fit a Prong Collar
Leerburg On Demand | See Why Leerburg Always Recommends a Backup Collar When Using a Prong Collar


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## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

Teaching the puppy on a prong collar takes time just like everything else. It's not a tool that you throw on and it just magically works. You and the dog need to learn how to use it and how it works. Proper fit just under the ears with the rings to the side. It shouldn't hurt your dog as you only give a short quick pop to correct the dog. Don't hang, constantly pull etc on the collar bc you will hurt your dog. Teach your puppy a heel command keeping her by your leg not I front of it and only pop the leash when she moves in front of your leg. I have also never started a puppy younger then a year on the prong. I have always laid a foundation first and then added in the prong from strong walkers pullers. I walk all 4 of my guys together 2 on each side so I added the prongs for the extra back up just incase it's needed and to slow down my 3yr old male who is a very fast heavy/strong walker. If you are also worried about the yelping they make little rubber covers for each of the prong sticks on the collar so it isn't as harsh of a correction you can add on until the puppy is older and then take them off.


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

It would help if your puppy understood leash pressure, as well. Go on leerburg.com and look for the leash pressure free video
If your pup doesnt understand directives from the leash, then all the pulling in the world will not help. Once a pup understands what the conversation is all about..then you will have more success.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

back to the drawing board . I wish people would develop a better relationship to the dog instead of relying on equipment.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

Saw a girl last night walking her lab, pulling her all over the sidewalk, and I mean absolutely dragging the poor girl everywhere. I noticed she was using a prong collar, too, which was way low on the neck, I did tell her to keep the prong up high but I don't think she took me seriously she told me it was high up, not so...

but I really don't think that has much to do with it if your dog does not understand loose leash walking and leash pressure. Wherever the prong sits on my pup, he still understands that pressure means to slow down or stop. Having it high up is just more effective.


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## Adele (Sep 25, 2012)

I really appreciate all your replies!
I have educated myself about the Prong collar: sized it properly & no longer put it
over her head but unhook the prongs and it stays right below and behind her ears and snout.
She's doing very well on it, 80% of her walk she walks at the heal straight as an arrow


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I would not use the dead ring. All your doing then is having the dog pull into the prongs when they are designed to close together equally for a "pinch" or "bite" feeling. 

Add rewards for her being in the position you like. Do some turns and stops so she gets small corrections to understand. If you stop and she hits the end of the leash and backs up to you praise her and continue on the walk. 


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Cstout said:


> Oh, forgot to say.... my pup HATED the halti at first. He still dislikes it, but its better. He would paw at it and rub on everything to get it off. He would rub his face on the ground and cry like a wuss becasue he didnt like the feel of it around his head and around his muzzle. But now he tolerates it because he knows when it comes out, it means its time for a walk.


If your pup HATES a tool that much than it is much more aversive than a prong or choke or whatever. If y dog hated wearing a prong I would not use it. Just because a tool looks "kind" or "cruel" to humans does not make it so for dogs. At least with a prong the dog had the power to shut it off by not pulling. If the dog doesn't like the halti on his nose, it's **** out of luck because he can't turn it off no matter what he does. 

Read this. http://funnycyde.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-does-dog-think.html?spref=fb&m=1


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Btw I'm not anti head collar or all about prong. I use whatever works for that individual dog, if it's needed at all. 


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

carmspack said:


> back to the drawing board . I wish people would develop a better relationship to the dog instead of relying on equipment.


This needs to be repeated.

Work on focus, work on your dog wanting to be with you, work on teaching your dog to release to pressure which you can do in your living room. A correction should come only if the dog fully understands what is expected and blows you off.


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## pancake (Oct 2, 2012)

I just got my prong collar in the mail today for my almost 6 month old puppy. She has well trained for various commands but she has problems with proofing and discipline. I hit a ceiling where I can only get so much response from her because the check choke/martingale type collar correction was having ZERO affect on her.
Anyway, my puppy pulled on the leash on walks. Constant corrections and she comes double force forward for each 1 leash correction back. I was throwing out my shoulder. This is with a check choke btw. She didn't really feel anything so I can't even label it as a correction. Just more of a tug. I can give her really hard corrections and she will not be phased, the tool was ineffective. I have done switching directions and marker training as marker training with food is part of the foundation for my training. It wasn't very successful. 
Today the prong collar came and I fitted it on her neck and just spent 3 minutes "testing" it to see how she reacts. To see if she would shrivel up and cry, her ability to rebound, etc. 
We have formal training class tomorrow so I needed to get some ideas before I throw her into a brand new environment with a new tool she isn't used to. Anyway, I can tell you I gave her zero corrections. I didn't tug on the leash as I felt that for her, it was pretty sensitive. She will try to pull on the leash and walk forward as she had done in the past and will yelp, then turn around and come back towards me. Luckily I am familiar with Michael Ellis' leash pressure work and saw the video about 4 times at least so I had my treats ready and the minute she turned around and "gave way" to the pressure, you mark YES! and follow with treat. Took about 3-5 times of her yelping then turning around to have her completely stop pulling and sticking close to my side. I felt no need to pull or yank or anything. It was self correcting. I find prong collars much more humane and less damaging even versus nylon collar corrections because it doesn't rely on brute force or forceful snaps and jerks that can hurt the cervical bones. It is a pain compliance tool and just like any compliance technique, it causes the dog to move voluntarily and out of its own volition then being forced into a physical movement. 

Here is the video on leash pressure with Michael Ellis. It's 3 or 4 parts and all are on youtube. It's only his seminar or class. if you want more you can buy the DVD - Focused Heeling with Michael Ellis at leerburg.com or rent it on Bowwowflix.com but I haven't gotten to watch it yet. Still waiting in queue at bowwowflix. It's very good. He's very level headed, concise and very knowledgeable.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

Cstout said:


> Oh, forgot to say.... my pup HATED the halti at first. He still dislikes it, but its better. He would paw at it and rub on everything to get it off. He would rub his face on the ground and cry like a wuss becasue he didnt like the feel of it around his head and around his muzzle. But now he tolerates it because he knows when it comes out, it means its time for a walk.





Capone22 said:


> If your pup HATES a tool that much than it is much more aversive than a prong or choke or whatever. If y dog hated wearing a prong I would not use it. Just because a tool looks "kind" or "cruel" to humans does not make it so for dogs. At least with a prong the dog had the power to shut it off by not pulling. If the dog doesn't like the halti on his nose, it's **** out of luck because he can't turn it off no matter what he does.
> 
> Read this. The Lighter Side of Darkness: What Does the Dog Think?
> 
> ...



Not tolerating it. Nice example, of that blog entry.


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## RowdyDogs (Nov 12, 2012)

Capone22 said:


> Btw I'm not anti head collar or all about prong. I use whatever works for that individual dog, if it's needed at all.


I agree, and I'll add that no-pull harnesses are often a better bet than a head collar because some dogs just really hate the head collar. I'll give the dog a short session or two to get used to a head collar, but if they continue to react strongly to it by crying, trying to get it off, etc. then I figure it's not really doing what I want anyway and will switch to another method.



pancake said:


> I hit a ceiling where I can only get so much response from her because the check choke/martingale type collar correction was having ZERO affect on her.


I've talked to some trainers who believe that choke collars can actually exacerbate pulling with some dogs, because of how dogs respond to generalized pressure like that, even when it is just applied as a short correction. I'm not sure though, as I've never used a regular choke myself (just prong collars in the past). Just thought I'd put it out there for discussion.


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