# starting RAW feeding



## smithie (Aug 25, 2011)

So today we decided to start Ranger on a raw diet. I've been looking for a good quality dry food for the last few weeks, and every single one of them had a high quantity of grains and cereals. Those that didn't were very expensive and prohibitive to long term feeding (on my budget anyway).

We started with good old chicken wings, he had one for lunch and another for tea followed by an egg lol. You'd have thought it was Christmas by how he reacted. Took it straight to his crate and spent a good 10 mins crunching and slurping to hi hearts content  hubby and I were rather green, and as for my vegetarian daughter . We've decided to go cold turkey (no pun intended ) and switch straight over and bin the kibble. When my hubby took him for his evening walk a short time ago, he said his poo was the best it's been since we got him!! So looks like we may be onto a winner  Tomorrows breakfast is turkey strips


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Good luck! keep us posted on how it goes. I am switching my boy over slow, Right now 1/4 raw 3/4 kibble. So far so good. probably in a few days will switch to 50/50. My goal is to get to 100% raw with in a month. No problems yet. I am also still working out what I plan to feed once totally raw so that is another reason we are going slow.


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## smithie (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks  We were going to do it slowly, but tbh his stools haven't been so great since we got him at all, although they are better on the food we were giving him rather than the rubbish he was on when we got him. So we decided it wouldn't make much difference that way, and when he got his kibble he had finished it in less than 30 seconds, whereas with the chicken wing he took 10 mins and it was sheer enjoyment  I am currently looking at a couple of suppliers online as I have a spare freezer and can buy in bulk, so hopefully that should work out more cost effective.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Look at www.rawdogranch for information on feeding raw correctly. 
I switched my dogs over 'cold turkey' and it was fine. A few days where their stools had to adjust, but it was not a problem. I started with chicken leg 1/4's as they were perfectly balanced and portion size was right. Even my senior mix breed transferred over easily.
I read up as much as possible before changing them over and while I researched, put them on a grain free kibble~ their last bag.


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## dazedtrucker (May 2, 2011)

I switched a 3 YO adult "cold turkey", no problems. He loves his food, and stools have been just as good, no problems


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

My pup was switched cold turkey at eight weeks, and does INCREDIBLE on raw!


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

Please be sure to do your research and talk to a vet nutritionist to ensure you are feeding a balanced raw diet, not just whatever meat you can get your hands on. Remember dogs evolved along with humans, a few "grains and cereals" aren't that bad for them.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Very few vets are versed in nutrition...far and few between. I would do my own research, of course, but to consult a vet on raw is usually a bad idea. Most of them are against it, and will recommend Hills products.


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> Very few vets are versed in nutrition...far and few between. I would do my own research, of course, but to consult a vet on raw is usually a bad idea. Most of them are against it, and will recommend Hills products.



There are reasons they are against it. As vets, they have to be responsible for human health as well, and if they don't warn against the salmonellosis that humans can contract by being in contact with fecal matter associated with BARF diets, then I am sure many lawsuits will ensue. Diet drift is also an issue.

I understand that some vets aren't versed in nutrition, that is why I specified a vet nutritionist. Also I am sure not all the websites about raw diets are good sources of information. I think it would be best to get as much information from many sources as possible, including vets.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

How many vets are nutritionists? That was my point in the post above. I don't think I even have one in my area of about 80 vets. My vet is fine with the diet, because _she knows I know_ what I am doing. My old vet was so against it without the knowledge to back up her opinion, I had to leave that practice...
Kibble can contain salmonella too


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

I think its great that you know what you are doing. My concern is for all the people who take on these diets that don't know what they are doing. I am sure if someone was dedicated enough, they could find a vet who is willing to consult on a raw diet with them within reasonable distance. As younger vets come up, I am sure attitudes will change.

And yes, kibble can have salmonella in it, but when it does it gets recalled and the company takes responsibility for it. With raw, it is assumed to have salmonella.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Dogs can handle it, obviously. Using proper handling practices and clean up(common sense).....E-coli on the other hand....I do take precautions when handling raw meat, but I do that when I cook for my family as well. 
Feeding a raw diet that isn't balanced is just as bad as feeding the poorest kibble on the market, research is very important.


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

Yes! Thank you. That was just the point I was getting too. I just hope people don't go in to RAW feeding with the attitude that they can just feed a bunch of meat that is raw and assume they are getting a balanced diet. 

I am studying vet medicine right now, and I totally agree, it is really sad what little nutrition training we do get (I am actually pretty angry about it), so I am doing my best to educate myself on it so that clients can feel confident to talk to me about various diets. I don't have a lot of spare time, so it is a slow going process, but I feel its worth it.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think if you specialize in nutrition, you will have a booming practice. Especially when dealing with allergies and other nutritional related issues(SIBO, perianal fistula's)
I wish the schools would spend a bit more time on that, instead of going with what the Hills company suggests for managing certain problems.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

sharkey19 said:


> Yes! Thank you. That was just the point I was getting too. I just hope people don't go in to RAW feeding with the attitude that they can just feed a bunch of meat that is raw and assume they are getting a balanced diet.
> 
> I am studying vet medicine right now, and I totally agree, it is really sad what little nutrition training we do get (I am actually pretty angry about it), so I am doing my best to educate myself on it so that clients can feel confident to talk to me about various diets. I don't have a lot of spare time, so it is a slow going process, but I feel its worth it.



I am very glad to hear that you are a future veterinarian, educating yourself on diets. I am a certified Animal Care technician working at an animal hospital. I cannot count how many times veterinarians have been rude, disrespectful and arrogant when it comes to diet. I am very familiar with a raw diet, and my belief that carnivores should eat raw meat, bones and organs is VERY strong. Nothing disgusts me more than vets telling me that I have no idea what I am talking about, and should feed their strange Medi-Cal diets that contain little or no meat and chemicals I can't even pronounce.

I spent YEARS learning about canines, both wild and domesticated, their biology, and nutritional habits (and needs). And yet here I am, the client, and I better not pretend I know better than my almighty vet. (Sorry, I am a little bitter. No offense to you whatsoever.)


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## smithie (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks all for your responses, definitely food for thought. I am going with the 80:10:10 approach and from what I have read this is one of the best ways of feeding. he also gets whole carrots a couple of times a week, and while there's probably very little nutritional value it, he enjoys crunching away. He LOVED his turkey chunks this morning.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> How many vets are nutritionists? ....


The worst diet ever put together for either of my dogs was by a vet nutritionist. I have consulted a non-vet nutritionist for Max with good results though.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Do we as humans over complicate Raw Diets? This is just for discussion only. What would we feed if there was no commercial dog food? I have been wanting to go totally raw for a while now but have been intimidated by everything I read, especially on this board. Do we really need to be nutritional experts to give our dogs a healthy natural meal? I did not worry about what I was going to feed my son when he was born. We just nursed him till he was weaned and then winged it ever since. He is now 13 and growing into a strong healthy young man who challenges me in arm wrestling every day. Why does it have to be SO much different for our pets. I admit that I have been moving slow with the raw feeding because I am not sure exactly what is the best route over time but does it really have to be that complicated?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

robk...feeding raw should have some thought to it, not just feed a piece of meat. The dog needs proper balance of meat/bone/organ to digest and absorb. Too much bone=constipation, too much of the other two=runny poop. 
A balance of all three will keep the calcium and phosphorus at perfect ratio too. 
After you get the balance figured out portion wise, it isn't all that complicated. 
BUT you should never just toss the dog a few wings and call it a good meal, because it isn't.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> robk...feeding raw should have some thought to it, not just feed a piece of meat. The dog needs proper balance of meat/bone/organ to digest and absorb. Too much bone=constipation, too much of the other two=runny poop.
> A balance of all three will keep the calcium and phosphorus at perfect ratio too.
> After you get the balance figured out portion wise, it isn't all that complicated.
> BUT you should never just toss the dog a few wings and call it a good meal, because it isn't.


Believe me I give it a lot of thought. Just not a lot of commitment yet. I have read about how important getting the ratios right are that I have been intimidated of the idea of going all in.


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