# My GSD killed my king charles



## heartbroken (Sep 21, 2013)

Been in tears all day, We have 5 dogs all rescue's. GSD, Pyraneese, Yorkie, Pomeranian and a King Charles. Today all the dogs where in the dog yard (a large gated piece of land and we found our King Charles laying in the middle of the yard bleeding to death from his neck. Our GSD (female) always bullied the that specific dog by "pouncing it" randomly never breaking skin but being a nuissance. Our King Charles died at the vet trying to save him didn't work and he was suffering. we have young kids and another on the way and we are scared that she may doe something to the new baby or to our current young kids... We dont know what to do we love her so much but are upset about what she did. We rescued her when we she was 1 years old and is about 3 now. We don't want her to get adopted by bad people that will treat her wrong and we are just scared for her unkown future.. What do we do this is very depressing and sad. Please help.


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## GSDLover2000 (Jul 9, 2013)

Oh my gosh... Let me first say I am SO sorry... I can not even begin to imagine what you are going through... I say take your dog to a trainer, and maybe have her be around more King Charles, maybe it is smaller dogs?? I don't think it will be a problem with your baby considering she will be supervised at all times, but I do think you should keep an eye on her until you can further examine the problem. Get her around some more king charles, and maybe just have a trainer see her. Just... please... get better... I am so so so sorry this has happened. I just am speechless right now... But let me please say do not put her down or send her away to a shelter... I know it is not my decision, but even though they do know better, she still probably did not mean it. I will be praying for you, and your dog who is now in Heaven. Once again, so sorry... May peace come to your passed dog, and may God help your German Shepherd. Truly sorry.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Dog aggression does not equal people aggression. 

I can't imagine leaving a Pyr, a yorkie, a pom, a GSD and a KCS unsupervised in a huge yard. That is a recipe for disaster, though considering the GPs I have known, I would have expected the problem to have come from that section -- I know that isn't fair, but just going on some nasty GPs I have known. 

You should not have left the dogs outside together, especially if two did not get along. I am sorry this happened, but are you 100% certain it was the GSD that did it? And if so, what are your intentions? Rescues are unlikely to take her from you, not impossible, but many rescues will not take a dog from an owner, and only take a dog that is in a kill shelter. 

You can contact a rescue and ask them to help you find an owner without other dogs, if you intend to give her up. You have a large pack -- five pet dogs is a lot if you want them to all run around together like the brady bunch. And with another skin-kid on the way, your time is short anyway. 

If you are going to blame the bitch for this, and will hold it against her in any way, finding her another home is probably your best bet.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I am so sorry for your loss. You must be devastated. I can't fathom. 

Let me reassure you that dog aggression and human aggression are entirely different things. So a dog aggressive dog can be perfect with people. 

Some GSD are very rough players. I know mine are. Often they don't know their own strength and accident happen with smaller dogs. 

I would keep her separate from the other smaller dogs unless under your direct supervision. You can stop her bad behavior, but only if you are there. 

Again. I am so sorry. King Charles are wonderful little dogs. So sweet, as I am sure your was. She did not deserve this. But you will see her again. 


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## heartbroken (Sep 21, 2013)

Thank you for the kind words. Everyone in the family is taking this hard because we love our GSD and feel horrible for the little guy that went a very bad a way. We know for a fact it was the GSD and not the Pyraneese because the GSD had all the saliva/ slime all over her which was all over the King Charles. the Pyraneese would never hurt anything hes a big and dopey and afraid of his shadow. We will NOT send her to a shelter or put her down that is not an option.


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## heartbroken (Sep 21, 2013)

We were afraid to tell the vet who attacked the dog because we thought they would send animal control or something. but the vet said "whatever did this was a wild animal with intent to kill"


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You did not witness this? So you don't know for sure if this was aggression or play gone bad?

I would not leave her out with any smaller dogs unsupervised. That is outside or in the house. Let her out with the larger dogs. 

Dog aggression does not mean the dog will be human aggressive. I have a HA dog that is great with other dogs and a DA dog that is great with people.

However, given your household with other small dogs, I would look to rehome her. You could contact rescues to see if they would courtesy post her and help check references for you.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. You must be heart broken right now. I feel for you 

Selzer gives good advice. So many different dogs can't be left alone unsupervised. You are such a sweet person to take in so many, and I'm sorry you have learned the hard way not to leave the big dogs unattended with the small dogs. 

When we take in rescues, though, we just want to give them a family... to feel included as quickly as possible. We forget that what dogs need is structure and an opportunity to earn their way into the pack. I say we, but I'm only admitting my personal experience, to sympathize with your loss. 

My heart goes out to your family 


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## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

I am sorry this happened to you. Like others have said, if the gsd did this. it does not mean she will be human aggressive. My rescue girls home before me turned her over to the rescue because she attacked their little dog. the rescue said it would better if she was in a home with no little dogs. She is great with all people. We have done a lot of training and I don.t take any chances around other dogs. It might be too much with a new baby on the way to make sure you manage all the dogs. My dogs last owner said she blamed herself because she knew they were not getting along . The little dog lost an eye. She did have to bring her from Kanas to Colorado. for a rescue that would take her. I found out that she had 3 homes total before I got her at the age of 2. So I think if you work at it you could find her a good home.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It kind of bothers me that the GSD attacked the male spaniel. Usually females will attack females to the death. But male/female usually works. This goes to show that usually still is not 100%

I would supervise her with your large dog too, if you choose to keep her. Dogs do not need to spend a lot of time outside together. If you go out for fifteen minutes with her and the GP, then you can bring her in, and let the little ones go out. I would definitely supervise her with all dogs, all the time. 

She can be an awesome pet. 

But she may be a better fit in a home with no other dogs, and be an awesome pet for someone else. Then you have fewer pets and she has a family that dotes on her. It could be the best of both worlds.


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## GSDLover2000 (Jul 9, 2013)

Many have said to re home her. I may be underaged, and inexperienced with situations such as these, but I do not believe she deserves to be re homed. Maybe, just maybe, it is the better choice, but I think she deserves a chance. Up until now it seems she has been an all around wonderful pet, and addition to this family, and so I do not believe this one mishap deserves a leaving from the family. This is my opinion. I think you should work with her, and until further notice, keep her away from the smaller dogs outside, but supervised inside. You said you were not even considering giving her up or putting her down, and I hope you still are feeling that way. Good luck on your decisions. I really do feel for you, and I am praying for you.


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## Crocky (Aug 16, 2013)

Oh my, this is so sad. i cannot imagine the grief you must be feeling. So sorry for your loss. This has brought the feeling of fear to the fore front for me as I am getting ready to introduce a male GS 8 week old pup into my family with three smaller dogs, 2 dachshund (one male and one female) and a male yorkie. We recently lost our female GS and although her and my female dachshund did not love each other they tolerated each other for the most part. They had a tangle about 6 yrs ago which resulted in some injuries to my little one but since then we were very cautious with the way we interact with them when they were together. This was a deciding factor for us picking a male this time.
as we all know, things happen in a second and sometimes far too fast to intervene.
What a feeling of helplessness you must have felt. Again my deepest condolences to you and your family.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Crocky said:


> Oh my, this is so sad. i cannot imagine the grief you must be feeling. So sorry for your loss. This has brought the feeling of fear to the fore front for me as I am getting ready to introduce a male GS 8 week old pup into my family with three smaller dogs, 2 dachshund (one male and one female) and a male yorkie. We recently lost our female GS and although her and my female dachshund did not love each other they tolerated each other for the most part. They had a tangle about 6 yrs ago which resulted in some injuries to my little one but since then we were very cautious with the way we interact with them when they were together. This was a deciding factor for us picking a male this time.
> as we all know, things happen in a second and sometimes far too fast to intervene.
> What a feeling of helplessness you must have felt. Again my deepest condolences to you and your family.


I'm not convinced you need to worry. Bringing a puppy, baby, GSD into a home full of small dogs is waay different than bringing an adult rescue. 


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Also, you didn't see what happened. 

More importantly, dog aggression does *not* translate to human aggression. I own a DA GSD. I can trust him with some small dogs, but definitely not all. So, I manage him until he proves himself. It's a lot of work, but way less painful than re-homing or euthanizing. 

I keep him contained around other dogs, but people are not an issue!


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## angryrainbow (Jul 1, 2012)

This happened because there was no one supervising the dogs.
you should always supervise kids and dogs ( dogs and dogs should be supervised too!), so unless you're planning on locking the dog and baby in a room together, you should not have a problem and rehoming is unnecessary.


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

If a dog is picking on another dog you have to nip it in the bud. 

This is why discipline and pack structure is so important

How is the dog around your children?

I feel sometimes having too many dogs means they don't get the right individual treatment and exercise. I've been minding 6-7 the last 6 weeks and have felt the stress of that. It is not easy.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree that dog aggression does not equal people aggression.

I'm really sorry you've had to go thru this, a really hard lesson to learn, to NOT leave a pack of dogs unsupervised. Things can go wrong in a second

With that, If she's been fine with people/your kids, I would'nt worry about that aspect of things, but I would worry about your other little dogs with the two big ones. Accidents happen, doing something by intent happens. Supervision is key.

IF you don't think you can supervise it may be best to find her a more appropriate home. Only you can make those decisions


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am so sorry for your loss, what happened is terrible and very sad.

You do not know for sure who it was that attacked your KC. You didn't see it so you don't know exactly what happened. Maybe the KC started it? There is no way of knowing. 

Pyraneese are big dogs, between 100-130 pounds, GSDs are about 55-90 pounds it's not a good idea to allow them to be unsupervised with 5-20 pound little dogs. GSDs play rough and could easily hurt a small dog without even meaning to do it.

I also agree with the others that dog aggression does not mean human aggression. I think you should keep her but she shouldn't be around the other dogs unsupervised. When she goes outside she goes out alone. I would also only let the little dogs out together, don't let the big dogs out with them unless you are out there too.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't have anything to add. I can only vouch for the "DA doesn't = HA". I had a German Shepherd who was dog aggressive her entire life. BUT.....She loved kids more than life itself.

I am so very sorry this happened to you.

Hugs!


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

So sorry for the loss of one of your furbabies, hope that you can get something worked out that will allow you to keep your pack together and all will be safe.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

selzer said:


> It kind of bothers me that the GSD attacked the male spaniel. Usually females will attack females to the death. But male/female usually works. This goes to show that usually still is not 100%
> 
> I would supervise her with your large dog too, if you choose to keep her. Dogs do not need to spend a lot of time outside together. If you go out for fifteen minutes with her and the GP, then you can bring her in, and let the little ones go out. I would definitely supervise her with all dogs, all the time.
> 
> ...



I thought so also but then I saw a female gsd try to kill a male husky by throat hold, she would have if people did not pull them apart. That really confused me. I asked a trainer who had a lot of experience with dog aggression. He said some bitches see and treat fixed malaes just like they would treat another female. He said it is not as common as I thought it would be. But it would be very rare with a bitch and a dog (intact) male. because she does not see him like a female. He also said that fixed males will give way to females more often and not push their limits so the fights just do not happen as much as inter female aggression. But the bitches don't care they will kill him or her it is the same to them.

I found it really strange. My female also does not show a diff between fixed males and females they are all the same to her. But an intact male had her acting all goofy. Really strange to me also.


I am so sorry to the OP I hope you can find a suitable home for her as a only dog? or maybe downsize a lil ? the smaller dogs are easier to place.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

selzer said:


> It kind of bothers me that the GSD attacked the male spaniel. Usually females will attack females to the death. But male/female usually works. This goes to show that usually still is not 100%


My friend's male and female Doberman used to get into terrible fights. They haven't had a fight in months but that's because my friends know the signs of when there could potentially be a fight and they can stop it from happening. 

Her male is good with other dogs both male and female.

Her female is good with other dogs too, but she got into a fight with my friend's mother's female Doberman.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

LaRen do you find dobies a bit less harsh on other dogs than gsds? I know its mostly individual the ones I know seem to be a lot better in groups. My dog use to be good friends with a female dobe.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

pets4life said:


> LaRen do you find dobies a bit less harsh on other dogs than gsds? I know its mostly individual the ones I know seem to be a lot better in groups. My dog use to be good friends with a female dobe.


Dobermans play very, very rough (at least the 4 I know do), they body slam and run into each other and can be pretty mouthy, I think they do best with breeds similar to their size, strength and play style. I think they are more rough than GSDs (from what I've seen) but GSDs can handle it.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I just wanted to say I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine how you feel right now. I'm sure what ever decision you make it will be the best for you. I'm so sorry


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm so sorry for your loss 

I have a small 12 lb mininature poodle and my sister has a 4 lb yorkie mix that live with my GSD, Delgado has been around them since he was 9 weeks old. My poodle does not enjoy other dogs trying to play with her and the yorkie is 13 years old and blind with other health issues (he's a rescue). I rarely leave them unsupervised, NOT because he has ever shown any signs of aggression but he could hurt either entirely unintentionally. He has been taught to respect them and not bug them, he knows the rules and a "leave it" or "knock it off" is more then enough to get him to settle if he's bouncing around them.

With you not witnessing the situation you have no idea what caused it, so I would not lay blame. If you choose to keep the GSD then I agree with everyone and the dog is never out of sight around the other dogs and get a good trainer involved, otherwise if you can't forgive her or wish to work with her then find her a good home with an experienced owner, or euthanize her (last resort). Those are pretty much your three options.


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