# What Characteristics/traits/etc



## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

do puppies get from their mother/father?

Example (do physical traits and looks come from mother?)

Basically what comes from mother, what comes from father?

Thanks


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## GunnerJones (Jul 30, 2005)

If ya got time I'd review the stuff they taught in high school http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendel 

the math is a real sleeping pill but genetics is genetics


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

Not a breeder but I can tell you what my pup got from where.

Sweetness - mom
Drive -dad
love of the ball - both

bone structure - dad. Mom is solid too but Otto's bone structure looks just like his sire as he was growing up.

coloring and markings is where it gets weird. Otto has 2 pure black grandsires and his granddams are both red sables. This produced his parents who look very much alike - very black faces with the dots over their eyes, both are blanket backs. 

Otto is growing a saddle, has a lot more red in his mask, doesn't have the dots but he does have black sunglasses.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Any traits can come from either parent, or even from a dog farther back in the pedigree.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Jack, a puppy can get some characteristics from each parent-- and sometimes, a puppy can even get NOTHING phenotypically from either parent that is aparrent to us! Some pups are dead ringers for a grandmother or grandfather physically... and behaviorally, act just like the other grandmother or grandfather. That happens sometimes!

Grimm:
Size: Father
Socially open nature: Mother (his father is very old style working border patrol, strongly civil)
Silly: *Maternal Grandfather *(he's a total clown, like Grimm)
Intuitive: Both Mother & Father
Warm character: Mother, Father, *Maternal Grandfather*
Ability to settle indoors: Father
Coat density: Mother
Talky/vocal: Father
Coat pattern(sable w/throat bib, chest butterfly & "socks"): Mother
Kissy: Father
Love of Retrieval: Mother


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I have always been told that you get type from the sire and temperament from the dam. 
Sheilah


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

That SOUNDS all well and fine, but it doesn't always work that way.

For instance, with my horses I have one mare that has had 7 foal by 7 different stallions. ALL of of the offspring, both male and female, look like the mare.

Though Dams can have an impact of the temperment to an extent because she RAISES the pups.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

And, sometimes it works weirdly, too:

We had a foal as a kid. Both parents tall, slender, elegant Thorobreds.

The father was slim, elegant, willow-y. 

EVERY baby fathered by him looked like a fat, broad, heavy draft horse with thick crest-y neck, double-wide butt, rounded full barrel, even feathers at the fetlocks.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There is no universal answer. 

Genetically, both contribute about 50/50 (though recent research in mitochondrial DNA would seem to indicate the dam may contribute more than just 50%).

How genes are expressed depends on what is dominant and what is recessive. Things like color and some health issues and such are very simple genetically. Other, more important things, like overall structure, general health, drive, temperament are not so simple. They are polygenic, with multiple genes working together to produce the results. Beyond that, they are multifactorial. There is no one gene or set of genes that makes for "high drive" or "weak nerves". These things are terms for a collection of several personality traits, each with it's own unique polygenic inheritance. And there appears to be no set list of what is dominant or what is recessive. One dog may consistently produce X regardless of who he is bred to, indicating that for HIM, those X genes are genetically dominant. But another dog may be X himself, but not produce it, indicating that for that dog, those X genes are not genetically dominant.

This is why it's important for breeders to really know their dogs but also their dog's relatives. A large preponderance of a certain trait within a closely related family indicates the genetics for that trait are very strong in that family, one could say more dominant, and thus more likely to carry on in future generations. Whereas if a dog has X trait, but a large percentage of his close relatives have Y instead, he may just be a fluke in having X and it's highly likely that he will produce Y in a good deal of his progeny.

Looking at the family of course provides good insight into what runs dominant or recessive in that family, but ultimately the only way to know what genes a dog will pass onto his progeny is to look at those progeny. Certain dogs become well known for consistently reproducing certain traits in their progeny, which would point to the genes for that trait being dominant in that dog, and more likely to be expressed in progeny. But for a different dog, exhibiting the same traits but consistently not producing them in his progeny would indicate that for that dog those genes are likely recessive, and thus overshadowed by the genes of the mate.

For breeders, consistency is an important part of making breeding decisions because it brings with it more predictability. A dam line that consistently produces certain traits is more valuable for breeding because of that predictability. Same for studs. Studs who have proven to consistently produce the same traits regardless of who they are bred to are the most logical choices for breeding. This is one of the things that makes for a good stud dog. It's why older, proven studs with lots of previous progeny to evaluate and who show consistency in their production are generally better choices for breeding when it comes to predicting the outcome, as opposed to a young stud who may be a fantastic dog himself but it's unknown what he produces. 

So the answer is that there is no answer.

Often by knowing families, traits of the individual dogs being bred and their previous progeny we can point to a certain set of traits in the progeny coming from the sire and others from the dam. But that only holds true for those individual dogs. We can't say because in this case traits A, B, C came from the sire and X, Y, Z came from the dam that is always the case of inheritance. Take a different sire and dam and the results may be the complete opposite. There is no list of traits that is regularly passed on by sires or dams in general.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

And within one litter, even though breeders may strove for uniformity, you get extremes at either ends of the spectrum. 

Grimm has two sisters from his litter that are non-stop, over-the-top, SERIOUS explosive powerhouses brimming with drive, civil, and extremely dominant like their sire.

Grimm himself is medium drive, medium energy, socially open, settles in the house, silly/clownlike personality.


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## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

Thank you everyone for answering my questions, and sharing your pups with me


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Slowly digest and read Chris Wild's reply about 5 times and things will clarify themselves...good info....info about dam giving one thing and sire giving another is the kind of folklore that breeding decisions are made on every day by responsible and irresponsible breeders that have decimated the breed!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Quote:Genetically, both contribute about 50/50 (though recent research in mitochondrial DNA would seem to indicate the dam may contribute more than just 50%)


In sexually reproducing organisms, mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the female. There are very few naturally occuring exceptions to this. Dogs aren't among the exceptions. While this means that the female contributes over 50% of the genetic material, mtDNA is minuscule compared to nuclear DNA, so the 50/50 ratio is realistic, if not exact. 

Of greater significance is the XY makeup of the male which means the X chromosome is always inherited from the female. The Y chromosome carries far less genetic info than the X which gives the dam a somewhat disproportionate influence on her sons. Canine examples include X linked SCID, X linked muscular dystrophy, & X linked PRA.


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