# Racial Purity of GSD/Lab Mix?



## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

Two days ago I got a new puppy. His name is "The King" Dogmeat. I really love him, and he is a wonderful dog.

Only problem is, he wasn't exactly planned. He's not from a breeder, and I have no paperwork for him. I actually just found him abandoned, and we took him home (he was in fairly rough shape).

After doing some research, I have determined that he is a GSD/Lab mix. He fits the pictures and descriptions of other GSD/lab puppies. 

I was just wondering, how much GSD do you think he has in him? I am a GSD lover, and have wanted one for years. My parents never let me get one because of their size, but since he kinda just dropped in, I decided to keep him.

Also, could some other GSD/lab owners show me some pictures of their adult dogs? I'm looking out for what to expect?

As you can see from these photos, he is a small puppy. I believe he is teething, but I'm not really sure. He seems to be about 16-20 weeks old though.

Anyway, do you guys have any ideas about what percentage lab he might be and what percentage shepherd?

Also, ears. His ears aren't up and I know that mixed often do not come up. Do any GSD/lab owners have any advice? Implants are out of the question, since my uncle (helping me take care of him) thinks that it's morally wrong.


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

I've never seen a GSD/lab but he looks like he has quite a bit of GSD in him. Do some research on temperment of both breeds and you're most likely going to get a mix of the two. I think its hard to tell what kind of personality you're going to get with a mix breed. But on the plus side they usually seem to be healthier (or free of more genetic/breed issues)


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

GusGus said:


> I've never seen a GSD/lab but he looks like he has quite a bit of GSD in him. Do some research on temperment of both breeds and you're most likely going to get a mix of the two. I think its hard to tell what kind of personality you're going to get with a mix breed. But on the plus side they usually seem to be healthier (or free of more genetic/breed issues)


He is a very well behaved dog, and very cute, I just am a bit worried is all. Freaking out a bit! As I said, I've wanted a GSD for years. I really want those erect ears and long snout. The regal Shepherd shape.


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## NorCalGSD (Oct 15, 2012)

Almost looks like a GSD/Aussie mix with the white paw, very cute dog though


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

NorCalGSD said:


> Almost looks like a GSD/Aussie mix with the white paw, very cute dog though


I was thinking that.... or maybe a hound mix like a beagle? 

Very cute puppy either way


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

Well, the reason I went with lab was because of a few other photos I saw of GSD/lab mixes.

























These are just images I found on google images, and they look extremely similar to King. 

Does anybody have an adult GSD/lab? I would like to see pictures, see what he might end up growing up to look like.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

What you have there is a genuine, purebred Heinz 57 mutt. No telling if there is any German Shepherd in there at all, there might be, but there could be any number of breeds including Lab, Rott, Pit Bull, Beagle, Aussie, etc. etc. etc.... no telling how much of which. Just for fun, you could try one of those DNA tests through the mail, but they are notoriously unreliable.

I once had a GSD/Lab cross and she looked nothing like your puppy.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

Freestep said:


> What you have there is a genuine, purebred Heinz 57 mutt. No telling if there is any German Shepherd in there at all, there might be, but there could be any number of breeds including Lab, Rott, Pit Bull, Beagle, Aussie, etc. etc. etc.... no telling how much of which. Just for fun, you could try one of those DNA tests through the mail, but they are notoriously unreliable.
> 
> I once had a GSD/Lab cross and she looked nothing like your puppy.


Huh, that's a shame. I am going to be consulting an expert, but thank you for your opinion.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

He has white feet and chest, indicating something else, like Aussie. In fact I'd guess Aussie x Lab if he was in my rescue, but I would list him as "Australian Shepherd mix" and not guess the 2nd breed since I can only really make out "Aussie" (Australian Shepherd)
How this is going to affect him is he may be sensitive to certain drugs like ivermectin.
You'll want to discuss that with your vet.
Thank you for giving him a good home 

PS. Is his left eye blue?? If so that's further evidence he's got Aussie in him. (I can't tell from the pics)


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

WDC said:


> Huh, that's a shame. I am going to be consulting an expert, but thank you for your opinion.


It's not a shame at all, he looks like a great puppy and should grow up to be a first-rate companion dog. Don't get too hung up over what breed he is, he will love you regardless of what's in the woodpile!

Curious, what kind of "expert" can tell you what breeds he might be?


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

Freestep said:


> It's not a shame at all, he looks like a great puppy and should grow up to be a first-rate companion dog. Don't get too hung up over what breed he is, he will love you regardless of what's in the woodpile!
> 
> Curious, what kind of "expert" can tell you what breeds he might be?


I meant an expert in animal care, a vet. I don't mean literally a DNA sequencer. I had a vetrenarians assistant tell me that he was likely at least part German Shepherd based on his facial markings, leg coloration, fur distribution, eye structure, cheekbones, snout, teeth, etc, but she could have been mistaken.

He is a sweet dog, but I guess if he isn't a GSD then my dreams and hopes will go unanswered a few years. Can't help but feel a bit disappointed since my number one dream in the world was to own a Shepherd. I still love King though, and as he grows, I am pretty sure his breed will become clear.



msvette2u said:


> He has white feet and chest, indicating something else, like Aussie. In fact I'd guess Aussie x Lab if he was in my rescue, but I would list him as "Australian Shepherd mix" and not guess the 2nd breed since I can only really make out "Aussie" (Australian Shepherd)
> How this is going to affect him is he may be sensitive to certain drugs like ivermectin.
> You'll want to discuss that with your vet.
> Thank you for giving him a good home
> ...


Eye is pure blue. I have known a lot of Aussie puppies in my life, and he does not look like one to me. He has GSD markings, but maybe he is a few generations too impure.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't get the "pure" vs. "impure" statements...while you could describe a dog as "purebred", the reverse "impure" seems to be a strange way to describe a dog.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=EFq1UMObAoP-iQLU_IHQDQ

2nd row down is a dog that strongly resembles the dog in your photo. It is said to be Aussie x Lab.

Neither Labs nor GSDs have white feet and white chests, so that rules out GSDs, and the white feet come from something else like the Aussie.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I don't get the "pure" vs. "impure" statements...while you could describe a dog as "purebred", the reverse "impure" seems to be a strange way to describe a dog.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=EFq1UMObAoP-iQLU_IHQDQ
> 
> ...


I thought that GSDs had a rare chance of receiving white paws and white chest spots?


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

google "blue eyed tri Aussie" 

between the eyes and that front right paw I am pretty convinced you have an Auusie mix there


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

His eyes are brown mate, I'm telling you. No blue in his eyes. I'm not denying that he may not be GSD, but the eyes are brown.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Rare, I believe, and in a mixed GSD it wouldn't likely show up. You have to look around and go "what breed do I see a lot of?" For instance, an adopter of ours did a DNA test and got Saluki mix...but we've never even seen one except on TV or the 'net, and their vet said the same. It's unlikely that dog has Saluki because they are just too rare.

If you have a lot of Aussies in your area (our area is rife with them) then it's a good bet that dog is part Aussie. Statistically speaking, he'd get the white paws/chest from that side of his family tree 



> Eye is pure blue.


 Did you mean "brown" or "blue"?


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

I meant brown, sorry, mistyped.

Well, all this is pretty hard to read. Sucks to have dreams die.

Well, I will go talk to the vet and see what he thinks, maybe make a post when it's over.


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

WDC said:


> His eyes are brown mate, I'm telling you. No blue in his eyes. I'm not denying that he may not be GSD, but the eyes are brown.


Well I am confused because you said this:



> Eye is pure blue


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The dog is awesome.
Where are you located?
State...? Or general Area?


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

WDC said:


> I meant brown, sorry, mistyped.
> 
> Well, all this is pretty hard to read. Sucks to have dreams die.
> 
> Well, I will go talk to the vet and see what he thinks, maybe make a post when it's over.


Hey Aussies are fantastic dogs! You could have a nice agility dog there


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

WDC said:


> Eye is pure blue.





WDC said:


> His eyes are brown mate, I'm telling you. No blue in his eyes. I'm not denying that he may not be GSD, but the eyes are brown.


So which is it??

Aussies can have brown eyes, too. 

If you found this guy abandoned, he's likely to be a mix of whatever dogs you commonly see roaming the streets in your neighborhood... and those are probably not purebreds, either!


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> The dog is awesome.
> Where are you located?
> State...? Or general Area?


Tucson AZ. Not the greatest state, but it's alright.



GrammaD said:


> Hey Aussies are fantastic dogs! You could have a nice agility dog there


Yeah, I've met some pretty nice Aussies. His temperament just doesn't strike me as Aussie though. He is still a puppy, but every Aussie I've known acts like spaz on coffee and cocaine. 

I think I might get DNA testing run when I can save up the cash, even if there is a chance of inaccuracy.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would not get caught up in what the mix is. Unless you have papers on the parents you can't know for sure. I've had multiple people tell me my mutt (and he's a true mutt, his mother was a mix) is a purebred Hovawart. Everyone likes to have their "expert" opinion on what type of dog he is. I don't really care because there's no way of knowing so just taking guesses doesn't really help me predict temperament.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

He's a really cute dog and it sounds like he has a great personality. Enjoy him for who he is--it doesn't matter what his mix is and you will never know for certain because the DNA testing is still far from accurate (and he could be a mix of many breeds). Honestly, I have had quite a few dogs and the mixes were just as wonderful as the purebreds.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Just to point out the obvious: If it is so disappointing to not get a German Shepherd from the random dog you picked up, why not take the opportunity to research great breeders on the board and start saving?


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## NWHeather (Oct 29, 2010)

I would say there's a *possibility* of GSD in there, but GSD's are not the only ones with those black & brown markings, Rotties do too.

I see Aussie, more than anything, possibly mixed with Lab or *maybe* GSD.

Aussie's are great dogs, I've had Aussie mixes. Very smart.

Here's my GSD/Lab mix. (She's the one on the left in the pic of the two.)


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

WDC said:


> Tucson AZ. Not the greatest state, but it's alright.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My GSD puppy acts like a spaz on coffee and cocaine! lol But maybe he is Aussie/shep mix :wub: I am sure he will be a great dog! You will know more as he grows. For example my childhood dog was a mutt and I figured out she had some beagle/hound in there because of her bark. She was a herder also and had GSD coloring. She was an awesome dog!! Very protective, athletic and smart! Can't wait to watch this guy grow!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Call a friend and read the title of this thread to them on the phone...my boyfriend and I just laughed for five minutes. I couldn't even say it! Sounds like something Hitler would say...."racial purity"

I KNOW the OP didn't mean it that way (sorry OP!) but I was in history class today and it just hit the spot


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Just to point out the obvious: If it is so disappointing to not get a German Shepherd from the random dog you picked up, why not take the opportunity to research great breeders on the board and start saving?



I'm 15, I live with my parents and they HATE German Shepherds. The only reason they let us keep King is because nobody else would help him, and my uncle wanted a dog too. Since my grandma and uncle live directly across the street from me, he lives at my grandmas.

When he matures, I will post more pictures. Wouldn't he be identifyable as an adult? GSDs have some pretty specific features.

Do I get banned from the forum for having too impure a dog, or can I stick around? I love Shepherds, so I wouldn't mind sticking around.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Of course you won't get banned.  

Trust me-- this dog will grow up to be everything you want, especially if you put good training into him. You know how I know this? Because I've been there. Especially when the dog matures in a few years, and becomes your constant companion, and you live a long and happy life together-- you will find yourself saying in the end, "I will never have another dog like him!" 

Such is the way it works.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

RocketDog said:


> Of course you won't get banned.
> 
> Trust me-- this dog will grow up to be everything you want, especially if you put good training into him. You know how I know this? Because I've been there. Especially when the dog matures in a few years, and becomes your constant companion, and you live a long and happy life together-- you will find yourself saying in the end, "I will never have another dog like him!"
> 
> Such is the way it works.


Thanks mate, you're right. It is nice to have a dog I can train. Our family's first dog was taken over by my dog, and my second dog was too old (and slightly disabled) to train.

Thanks guys!


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

WDC said:


> I'm 15, I live with my parents and they HATE German Shepherds. The only reason they let us keep King is because nobody else would help him, and my uncle wanted a dog too. Since my grandma and uncle live directly across the street from me, he lives at my grandmas.
> 
> When he matures, I will post more pictures. Wouldn't he be identifyable as an adult? GSDs have some pretty specific features.
> 
> Do I get banned from the forum for having too impure a dog, or can I stick around? I love Shepherds, so I wouldn't mind sticking around.



Wow! You have way better grammar than most of the older people on here LOL.... Had no idea! 

Your best bet would be to keep your pup, learn how to train it, learn more about good breeders, and get a german shepherd when you move out! Otherwise your parents may make you get rid of it 

We have many great breeders on here, I hope you find one in the future that you love!

(And your title honestly was hilarious!)


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Welcome WDC! I would have your pup tested for the mdr1 gene, just in case....some Aussie's carry the gene and you'll want to be careful when it comes to vaccines, ivermectin~topical flea/tick/heartworm preventatives and sedation.
you can google for many links, here is just one: Veterinary Clinical Pharmacology Lab at the College of Veterinary Medicine 
Congrats on your new pup! I hope you have many years of learning together!!
My first dog when I moved on my own was a black GSD with soft ears...this was early '80's and his mom was a b&t GSD...but daddy possibly could have been a lab(he was the only black pup in the litter). He had everything GSD in him but his ears never stood unless he was excited. Stomper was a great dog regardless!


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## Freddy (Apr 23, 2009)

When I was 16 years ago (long, long ago) I fell in love with a pup, the pup of a white GSD and a black lab. Absolutely brilliant dog, did some bite work with her, and she was wonderfully behaved after she got through the (lab) extreme chewing phase. Almost nothing was off limits. Her ears came up too. 

I don't know enough to comment on that which others have said regarding the "purity" but if it's a lab/gsd mix, I hope he is as much a joy for you as mine was for me.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

That dog is totally ADORABLE! I love him. I could see GSD and Lab and who knows what else - could be a Beagle white paw, a herding dog white paw, who knows! 

Because he does have white paws, there is something called an MDR1 mutation you should know about: busteralert.org and busteralert.org for info

I have a dog that I think (no idea) is maybe GSD/Lab or Rottweiler (the ears never grew - so I say he has Shrek ears). He is so sweet. Very patient - here he is at Mardi Gras:









Just do things that all dogs benefit from - good food, lots of love and fun, and excellent training that builds upon their strengths! I bet he would love a clicker!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

WDC said:


> I'm 15, I live with my parents and they HATE German Shepherds. The only reason they let us keep King is because nobody else would help him, and my uncle wanted a dog too. Since my grandma and uncle live directly across the street from me, he lives at my grandmas.
> 
> When he matures, I will post more pictures. Wouldn't he be identifyable as an adult? GSDs have some pretty specific features.
> 
> Do I get banned from the forum for having too impure a dog, or can I stick around? I love Shepherds, so I wouldn't mind sticking around.


Oh no you won't get banned. Lots of people here don't have GSDs or have other dogs too. My "heart dog" is my Heinz 57 mutt! He usually gets more "fans" than my pure GSD.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

:wub: Coke! I am a fan.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> That dog is totally ADORABLE! I love him. I could see GSD and Lab and who knows what else - could be a Beagle white paw, a herding dog white paw, who knows!
> 
> Because he does have white paws, there is something called an MDR1 mutation you should know about: busteralert.org and busteralert.org for info
> 
> ...


Aww, that's a cute dog! Also, thanks for a more positive tone, really need that tonight as I'm feeling a bit well. Thursday is the vet appointment, to get his shots, and schedule him from neutering. We haven't used a clicker (not exactly sure how clicker training works, actually), we've been training him through a more classic conditioning method of scheduling and routine, as well as subliminal suggestion. 



Liesje said:


> Oh no you won't get banned. Lots of people here don't have GSDs or have other dogs too. My "heart dog" is my Heinz 57 mutt! He usually gets more "fans" than my pure GSD.


Cute! He's got a really unique figure!


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey there. I understand. My husband and I wanted a purebred GSD for years. Imagine our delight when we found what appeared to be two GSDS at our local shelter a few weeks before our wedding! We brought them home and waited for the ears to come up and waited... the older they got the more clear it became that our pups were not German Shepherds.

I loved them for the fourteen years that I owned them. I learned a lot from having them and they were perhaps more forgiving of rookie mistakes than the formidably intelligent German Shepherd. Havoc, our very fancy WGSL, has benefited from my experience with Troi and Crusher. I used to tell people that they were "Lehmannhunds."


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Here was my first "very own" dog: I got him at the Humane Society at the ripe old age of 6 1/2 weeks--(too young, but they were over-full)




















I will never, ever, replace him. But, the way it seems to work, is you can't ever replace _any _of them. ♥♥♥


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

blehmannwa said:


> Hey there. I understand. My husband and I wanted a purebred GSD for years. Imagine our delight when we found what appeared to be two GSDS at our local shelter a few weeks before our wedding! We brought them home and waited for the ears to come up and waited... the older they got the more clear it became that our pups were not German Shepherds.
> 
> I loved them for the fourteen years that I owned them. I learned a lot from having them and they were perhaps more forgiving of rookie mistakes than the formidably intelligent German Shepherd. Havoc, our very fancy WGSL, has benefited from my experience with Troi and Crusher. I used to tell people that they were "Lehmannhunds."


Troi and Crusher? Is that a reference to what I think it is? Omigod are you a trekkie too?


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I understand the OPs hope that his dream was realized. Whatever we get as a pup, I think we all have preconcieved ideas about what it is, what it will be, how it will be. If the dog has chosen us carefully enough, we come to realize that what they are is perfect for us.

My old geezer dog was proclaimed a GSD mix by a vet (for the previous owner). He has no GSD temperment, he howls like a northern breed, he barks like a northern breed, he looks like a black northern breed with GSD tan "spots" for eyebrows and as socks. I see very little GSD in him. (So don't put too much stock in what the vet declares his breed to be - down here anything with black and tan and an ear that isn't the classic hound ear is proclaimed GSD mix.)

My first dog as an adult was a GSD Elkhound cross. Smarter'n all get out, kinda awkward looking but I loved that dog. Third dog as an adult was a GSD mix. She was lovely, totally different than the first. Following five were GSDs - one of which at 3 yo continues to share my home with me & the geezer.

Each dog has been different. Each has given me a lot and taught me a lot. 

Enjoy your pup. Tell your folks he's probably an Ausie X, tell yourself whatever you want regarding his breeding (I like the "certified street stray" designation myself). Whatever you call him, enjoy him.


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

WDC, that pup looks like a keeper to me. as the resident gsd expert here (having owned my first one) i says he is a at least 75% GSD. can anyone prove me wrong??

so quit asking what he is and just say hi folks check out my gsd/lab mix, he will most definately have police dogs, and high level schutshund dogs in his genes. 

join a sporty type club and see what he likes; agility, tracking, flyball....what you will learn with yr guy will be an excellent base for training and caring for yr "pure" gsd when the time is right.

get over over on the training sub-forums and start checking out marker training and RAW feeding. 

you know if it's not a wolf it is a mutt anyway.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

WDC said:


> I thought that GSDs had a rare chance of receiving white paws and white chest spots?


GSD's do have white spotting...and it can be as much as your pup is showing. My females dam carried the gene for it and she produced a pup with four white sox as much as your pup has. She was bred to a Czech male in that litter(so obviously the dam carried that gene)
Onyx has white spotting but it isn't as much, her sire was an AKC Am line male. Onyx's ears were up by 10 weeks but looked very heavy when she was 7 weeks. Her ears now are 'bat' ears, way too big for her head! I still love her regardless! Here is her puppy pic:








and now at 6:


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> GSD's do have white spotting...and it can be as much as your pup is showing. My females dam carried the gene for it and she produced a pup with four white sox as much as your pup has. She was bred to a Czech male in that litter(so obviously the dam carried that gene)
> Onyx has white spotting but it isn't as much, her sire was an AKC Am line male. Onyx's ears were up by 10 weeks but looked very heavy when she was 7 weeks. Her ears now are 'bat' ears, way too big for her head! I still love her regardless! Here is her puppy pic:
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, looks a lot like King! That actually gives me a bit of hope, but not holding my breath. Only time will tell. You have a beautiful dog!

I forgot to mention that the camera I used to take pictures of King distorts the image a bit. I tried to take pictures with my other cam, but I think its busted. I will try to get better shots of his markings and facial structure next chance I get.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

A lady in rescue told me one that thing that helps when I look at mixes - that it is unlikely to get/find a 50/50 mix. That a lot of times mom is 2-3 breeds, dad is the same - there can be overlap or not. So you may have a pup with 2-4 different breeds for sure. I really do see the GSD/Lab in the picture where he's smiling. ETA - people that adopted a Lab mix from me/rescue have a dog that they got for flyball that is a mix of French Bulldog, Jack Russell Terrier and Malinois. When I saw him I thought he was a Boxer or bully mix (he's brindle). Never would have guessed those breeds! 

The thing I like about mixes is that while there are similarities, you get such a wide variation in terms of look and behavior. That can be good when it's a great dog and not so good when it's a challenging combo! I think your dog really looks like he is going to be one of those great dogs. 

What Is Clicker Training? | Karen Pryor Clicker Training


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

So far he is. We have him trained to sit and lay down. He knows come, but not yet stay. He is pretty good about heeling.

I'm hoping he grows BIG. I spent a lot of time with 90 pound shepherds over my life (a friend owned them) and the are absolutely the most cuddly and soft dogs around. I'm pretty good with dogs, even got a GSD abused by kids to love me. There were three, a big Belgian looking fella (pretty sure he was GSD, just a real showlike and lean long haired), a short haired bulky female (the abused), and one of their 24 puppies that was kept (girl managed to squeeze out 24 in under a year, one died after she sat on it). The pup was really cute. He was actually the biggest, and he had these tiny floppy ears. He was so soft that he had to wear a spiked collar because he would not bite other dogs back even in play. We used to just bring the three together (300 pounds of shepherd) and cuddle. I haven't seen them in over a year, but I miss em.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

So, I just got back from the vet.

In line to see the vet, I actually ran into a former show shepherd breeder who said that he was definitely part shepherd. She told me that I should start taping his ears soon if they don't rise on their own. 

The vet and nurse both agreed, also saying that he may be part rotty, lab, or even doberman.

He got his vacs, and we scheduled his neutering. We are also starting him on heartworm prevention, and switched his food. Beneful is apparently like poison for dogs.

This was good reassuring news. It was nice to hear from a breeder that he was part GSD. The vet even said that he is probably mostly shepherd based on what she can see.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

WDC said:


> I meant brown, sorry, mistyped.
> 
> Well, all this is pretty hard to read. Sucks to have dreams die.
> 
> Well, I will go talk to the vet and see what he thinks, maybe make a post when it's over.


Many vets have no clue. Many of them think my purebred East German bloodline German Shepherd is some sort of wolf or coyote mix. They have no idea, but they sure would like you to think they do.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

Honestly, he could have other breeds in him. With mixed breeds it is impossible to tell. He could be mostly shepherd, or he could barely have any and just came out looking more like a shepherd. He may not even be part Lab. When he is older, it MAY be easier to tell. There is DNA testing you could do, but I'm not sure about the accuracy of it.

Expect: A high energy dog for at least the first 7 years. Possible health issues since he is a large breed (look at GSD/Lab common health issues for an idea of what to look for). Smart dog, but possibly stubborn. Friend for life.

If you expect what is above, you will either be happy when you get something better, or informed when his high energy and possible stubborn streak shows up.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

WDC said:


> So, I just got back from the vet.
> 
> In line to see the vet, I actually ran into a former show shepherd breeder who said that he was definitely part shepherd. She told me that I should start taping his ears soon if they don't rise on their own.
> 
> ...


I hope you aren't neutering him due to pressure from your vet? Males need to have intact hormones to grow properly. I'd wait til he's a year if you are responsible enough to prevent oops litters.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

Emoore said:


> Many vets have no clue. Many of them think my purebred East German bloodline German Shepherd is some sort of wolf or coyote mix. They have no idea, but they sure would like you to think they do.


Well of course I am sure he is not a pure bred Shepherd, but I think a testimony from both a vet and a retired breeder is pretty good to get a sense of things. I didn't take very good pictures because my camera is busted, so you may not have the full idea of what he looks like.



vicky2200 said:


> Honestly, he could have other breeds in him. With mixed breeds it is impossible to tell. He could be mostly shepherd, or he could barely have any and just came out looking more like a shepherd. He may not even be part Lab. When he is older, it MAY be easier to tell. There is DNA testing you could do, but I'm not sure about the accuracy of it.
> 
> Expect: A high energy dog for at least the first 7 years. Possible health issues since he is a large breed (look at GSD/Lab common health issues for an idea of what to look for). Smart dog, but possibly stubborn. Friend for life.
> 
> If you expect what is above, you will either be happy when you get something better, or informed when his high energy and possible stubborn streak shows up.


He definitely has a few breeds in him, for sure. Either way, he's still a good dog and I am happy to have him. When he matures, he will either get the Shepherd face structure, or not. It should be fairly clear.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> I hope you aren't neutering him due to pressure from your vet? Males need to have intact hormones to grow properly. I'd wait til he's a year if you are responsible enough to prevent oops litters.


It's not a pressure thing, it's more about the typical growth patterns that show through when neutered and un-neutered. From what I have gathered from this site and others, neutered puppies typically grow taller, and un-neutered puppies typically grow beefier and wider.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Yes, males don't grow up to be "male" in structure when they are neutered early...their heads stay smaller as well.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

onyx'girl said:


> Yes, males don't grow up to be "male" in structure when they are neutered early...their heads stay smaller as well.


We keep a close eye on him, so it really is not about the risk of puppies. He may be a bit more feminine, but it is the decision that my uncle, grandmother, and I have reached. At first I was against neutering as well, but I am a fan of more regal and tall looking dogs.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

The world has a funny way of sending you the right dog at the right time, even when you would have never in a million years thought that would end up being the right dog. 

I've had several GSDs over the years. Our regal, gorgeous female passed away of old age last year, and I _thought _we would replace her with another classic GSD. While volunteering a shelter, I took home a puppy to foster that had a purebred dam, and the family who surrendered the dogs said that sire was too. She was too young to tell if she was really purebred. I ended up adopting her -- even though she stopped growing at 45 pounds. We fell in love with her--I like to joke that she's mixed with "angel." She's the smallest dog I've had in years -- and she's the _wisest _dog too (even as a youngster). She's magical, wonderful, and _exactly the dog I needed. _No, she's not the athletic, powerful dog she replaced, and her bark is shrill because she's small, and her ears will always wiggle, and she'll always be a tiny squirt -- but she's _perfect, for me._ I know in my heart we were meant to be together. 

Open your heart to the reason King was sent to you -- as that reason slowly unfolds, your bond and friendship will become very special. What he's mixed with doesn't matter, as long as you love him and he loves you.


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

Magwart said:


> The world has a funny way of sending you the right dog at the right time, even when you would have never in a million years thought that would end up being the right dog.
> 
> I've had several GSDs over the years. Our regal, gorgeous female passed away of old age last year, and I _thought _we would replace her with another classic GSD. While volunteering a shelter, I took home a puppy to foster that had a purebred dam, and the family who surrendered the dogs said that sire was too. She was too young to tell if she was really purebred. I ended up adopting her -- even though she stopped growing at 45 pounds. We fell in love with her--I like to joke that she's mixed with "angel." She's the smallest dog I've had in years -- and she's the _wisest _dog too (even as a youngster). She's magical, wonderful, and _exactly the dog I needed. _No, she's not the athletic, powerful dog she replaced, and her bark is shrill because she's small, and her ears will always wiggle, and she'll always be a tiny squirt -- but she's _perfect, for me._ I know in my heart we were meant to be together.
> 
> Open your heart to the reason King was sent to you -- as that reason slowly unfolds, your bond and friendship will become very special. What he's mixed with doesn't matter, as long as you love him and he loves you.


That's a very cute puppy, and some wise words.


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## longhairshepmom (Apr 7, 2003)

I absolutely see German Shepherd in him. And I've grown up in Germany where you would see shepherds on every street corner, also having had a few and fostered a few more.
There is something about the shape and placement of the eyes in relation to the skull/face. Now I'm sure there are some that will say I'm wrong and how would I know, etc. But IMHO there is a high percentage of german shepherd in this pup.
Very attractive pup by the way !!


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## WDC (Nov 27, 2012)

longhairshepmom said:


> I absolutely see German Shepherd in him. And I've grown up in Germany where you would see shepherds on every street corner, also having had a few and fostered a few more.
> There is something about the shape and placement of the eyes in relation to the skull/face. Now I'm sure there are some that will say I'm wrong and how would I know, etc. But IMHO there is a high percentage of german shepherd in this pup.
> Very attractive pup by the way !!


Yeah, I've definitely noticed the eye placement in every pup I've seen. They seem to be fairly consistent across the board!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> Yes, males don't grow up to be "male" in structure when they are neutered early...their heads stay smaller as well.


This is not always, or even often, the case. Basu was neutered at 6 months (4 years before I adopted him). He had a very large WG gsd head and a very masculine structure. No one mistook him for a female. That's just one example but I have seen many others. 

If you can 100% guarantee you can keep your dog from impregnating a female then I think leaving them intact until they've had the full benefit of hormones is ok. However, if you can't give that 100% guarantee then I think the responsible thing is to speuter them once they're sexually mature.


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## Earthgal (Feb 9, 2015)

To Original poster

Your puppy looks exactly like my Conan when he was a pup. Yes GSD/Lab mix. He was a genuine guard dog for our small children. Even so much that If my kid needed a swat on the behind, I had to put Conan in another room. But I considered that a Good thing and therefore Rarely ever swatted my children after that. He grew to be around 6ft tall on his hinds and loved to give hugs!!

He played hide n seek with my kids like he was one of the children. lol You could look into his eyes and know what he was trying to tell you. Or at least I could.  lol We miss him oh so much! You have a True Jewel right there!!! I'm always on the look out for another just like him. I won't settle for anything less.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Before it continues.
Post over 2 years old.
OP has not posted since.


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