# Newbie question about GSDs and biting vs nipping vs mouthing



## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

We just adopted a 1 year old GSD female and have been getting to know her over the past 11 days. She was very timid and low-energy when we first got her, but she is starting to feel more comfortable around us. When we first got her, she seemed like a very old dog with her energy level and interest in interaction.

Now that she is starting to relax, more of her playfulness is coming out...and so are her teeth! Should we be worried if she bites (sometime pretty hard) when playing (for example, when I was running across a park with her on the leash, she lept up and bit me on the arm pretty hard) and occasionally to get our attention? 

I was playing with one of her squeaky toys with her yesterday and she got excited, bit my husband in the calf, the butt, and his arm. 
She also came to us with pretty severe matting on parts of her coat, and when I groom her, she will go after my arm when I get to any of the mats, even if I am really really gentle. I've left my arm/hand/etc where it was when she bit and she never really clamped down, but she did bite the brush pretty hard!

None of these bites seemed like aggression to me- if she wanted to hurt us, those bites would have been way harder. However, she is 1 year old with a healthy set of teeth and perhaps she didn't have opportunities as a younger dog to learn bite inhibition, so they hurt! 
How should we work with this? So far we've tried stopping whatever game we are playing with her and ignoring her if she bites, and when she bites hard, yelping and ignoring her. When I'm grooming her, I don't want her to learn that when she bites, I'll stop, so I'm not sure what to do there.

Advice? I am most worried that she'll mouth/bite/nip someone who doesn't know dogs well and they'll assume she's vicious. She is definitely not vicious in any way, but we need to teach her not to use her teeth on people.


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm not an expert, but I would think by a year old they shouldn't be mouthing as much, considering baby teeth are all gone. 

It's possible the previous owner never taught any bite inhibition so the dog doesn't know when a bite is too hard. If the dog is accidentally biting when playing, that is one thing I wouldn't worry about. Get your hand out of there quicker is the best advice I can think. 

As far as jumping up and biting and going after skin or hands when a toy isn't involved, you will probably have to work to discourage that. There are several other threads on here that have come up in the last week. If you did a quick search there is great info. there about how to teach this bite inhibition.


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## milkmoney11 (Feb 11, 2010)

My post was a little vague so here are the other threads I was talking about to help you...

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/135368-need-help-biting.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/training-our-puppy-basic/134755-puppy-biting-hurts-help-me.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/133928-need-advice-stop-puppy-biting.html

Hope these help...


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

It sounds as if your girl has learned along the way that using her teeth is a) a good way to get what she wants, and b)acceptable when she is excited. Doesn't sound like aggression at this point, but definitely something you want to get a handle on ASAP. Correct her bites/nips etc as you would a 7 week old puppy: when she uses her mouth on you, make loud "ouch!" sound. When she startles and releases, praise her for the release. The goal here is not to over correct what has been a normal and acceptable behavior prior to now, but to reinforce the good behavior of _not_ using her teeth. Now is also a good time to introduce the "leave it" command, using whatever word flows easily from your mouth (ex: "leave it", "no bite" etc). When you see her getting excited or gearing up to use her teeth, give her the "leave it" command in firm, no-nonsense voice. Don't pull your hand away or she may try to instinctively capture it...just give the "leave it" command and turn sideways away from her so that she misses her "target". Once her attention has been redirected away from the mouthing/biting, praise her for her restraint. Adopting a one-year old dog will bring you many surprises for the next several months...adult dogs take an average of 4-8 months to truly settle in to their new homes and display their full personality. Along the way you will see all of the "baggage" she brought with her: all of the behaviors that she learned along the way (both good and not-so-good). Patience and consistency will help her learn to trust her new family as well as to get on board with the new pack rules.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

It's great she's coming out of her shell and wanting to play. And you WANT the play! So it's vital you don't correct her everytime she starts to play with you...

Course you are thinking about the pain....:wub:

Sounds like she is just like the 8 week old puppies we get in our house that ALSO don't know how to play with we poor, thin skinned, delicate blossom humans. So, just like with an 8 week old, instead of correcting and correcting and correcting.............we need to TEACH.

And I mean teach them how they CAN play with us. I personally have toys and tug toys all over the house. So it's easy to grab one and redirect to continue to play, only the right (and painfree) way. Playing with our dogs is a HUGE way to bond with them and is valuable as a tool for the rest of their lives.

Why do bomb dogs find bombs? For the toy/play with the handler.

Why do drug dogs find drugs? For the toy/play with the handler.

Why do most of the best agility dogs do agility? For the toy/play with handler.

Why do many of the best obedience dogs do obedience? (bet you can guess?).

If you can teach your dog to play appropriately with you, you are also well on your way to have one of the most valuable methods available to get a 'practically perfect' dog!

Treat your dog like a puppy because chances are many normal behaviors and training steps were missed... http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/puppy-behavior/85888-teaching-bite-inhibition.html


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

sounds like she hasn't been taught about
nipping.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Thanks you guys! We're working on "Leave it" anyway because we have cats that she needs to learn to get along with, so we'll try that.
Yesterday she was at doggie daycare and another dog started a play fight, and when one of the helpers went to move Regen, she bit her...not hard, but like she didn't get the boundary between dog and human. Good thing the helper was understanding and said she probably startled her by grabbing her quickly...but still.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

She is getting mouthier and mouthier each day. 
Today when walking she jumped up and nipped my arm, and I couldn't get her to stop jumping and biting. It was unsettling and a bit scary because she's 70 pounds and I am 5'3 and 110 pounds, so even body blocking wasn't very effective. 
She needs walks and runs to get out energy, but I'm not sure how to deal with this behavior on a walk. It would have looked to a passerby that my dog was attacking me.
She looked playful, not aggressive, but obviously this was not fun for me.
At home, I ignore her and leave the room, or give her a toy to chew. What to do on a walk?


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Bump...she had been doing much better with this until today, we were playing fetch in the back yard and when I turned to try to get her to come to me with the tennis ball (instead of lying down and chewing it), she decided that it would be more fun to jump up and bite me. She is as tall as I am when she is standing. I turned my back on her and she kept biting...back of my neck, my shoulder, back of my arms. I stood totally still and when it seemed she wasn't going to stop, I turned around...saw the look in her eye and knew she was going to jump up at me again, so I grabbed her collar and pushed her to the ground (mostly so she wouldn't jump on me) and said NO. After that I went inside for a few minutes and left her in the yard. I let her back in after she calmed down (and I calmed down, lol).

I am not happy with my response, but it was scary and her bites HURT! What I've been doing in the house is redirecting any mouthiness to a toy, and if she jumps and nips I'll leave the room and shut myself off from her. She is doing better with jumping in general unless someone greets her all excitedly and bends over.

She's about a year old and we've had her for 3 weeks. This type of behavior is "normal" for a dog who hasn't had consistent feedback on play behavior with humans, right? 

It's hard not to get emotional when she does this. I *think* she gets overexcited and is just playing, but it's hard to remember that she's not hurting me on purpose.


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

anyone? is this normal for GSDs?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Runswithdogs said:


> anyone? is this normal for GSDs?


It's hard for us to really comment on this without seeing it in person. May just be a young dog that never learned any rules and boundaries so is treating you just like it would another dog... or may be a bit more serious. 

You working with a trainer or anyone familiar with GSD's? They'd have a much better handle on what's going on. 

May want to back off on playing with your dog for a bit until you can work this out. We all like the games, but there have to be rules that YOU can make clear and the dog will follow. So until you work those out, may want to just avoid over-stimulating your dog.


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## HMV (May 17, 2010)

Reward the good behaviour, use the NO or LEAVE IT command at bad behaviour.

The dog has a years worth of bad habbits your not going to get rid of them over night. Practice and Patience.

Keep at it, you'll get there in the end.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

3 weeks is the first end of the honeymoon period, then again at 3 months...in new dogs/foster dogs. They are feeling a little more comfy, but still in that survival mode so not quite trusting and still thinking they need to be in charge, but looking to see if you will be in charge or if they will be. Not in a dominant way, but in a...if I need to get food, who here is going to do it. 

So we do NILIF from the minute they walk in the door, and start to teach an alternate behavior to the mouthiness. 

I teach "touch" where they touch their nose to my hand, and I teach "kissy kiss" where they stop biting to lick. 

In the meantime, while they are learning these things (which always amazes me at how quickly they get it - and honestly I cannot tell you how I teach them because it just seems to happen), we work on sit or down, taught positively so that when they do what she is doing, you can give this command and have her do it. 

5 minute training sessions at least 3 times a day, happy, upbeat, but depending on her drive not too much enthusiasm will help. 

Leashing her to you (yeah, great you think, leash a mouthing dog to me) may also help. Check into Flying Dog Press - Suzanne Clothier - Home (I think com) for some information on relationship based training thoughts. I use a good EH! noise with my dogs, but have the relationship to do so. My current foster was starting to chase my cat and all I said was EEEP (as in OMG I am not expecting this) and it worked - he's a bit of a softer touch apparently.  No demon voice needed. 

Finding a trainer of course is a better idea, because they can see the behavior. Just don't get a crank and yank type who will not teach her to inhibit her bite at all, but who will totally stop it. The goal is to have a dog who understands that their teeth and mouth need to be soft on people (unless you are training for something else - which you are not). 

I know when they are dong that mauling thing it's a bit disconcerting. And you don't want to push her into a worse behavior so finding a good trainer will help. Look on Karen Pryor's website, APDT, CPDT websites for trainers...

Good luck!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Well, I have a young male who can get physical with me in play. In him it is due to excitement and he tends to get pushy also.

What training are you doing with her? How much obedience training have you worked on? What behaviors has she learned so far?


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

We were working with a trainer (through Karen Pryor's academy) for a few sessions to address separation anxiety and work on getting her less reactive to our cats. She had only really started the mouthiness at our last session, and though this trainer was great, it was $150 for the first 4-hour session and $50 for another 1 hour session, so we couldn't afford to keep consulting with her unless we really needed it.
Regen is in a clicker-training obedience class and I do work with her daily. She knows sit, down, leave it (sometimes), come, and we are working on loose-leash walking, stay, and a more solid recall and leave-it command. 
She has to sit or lie down before she eats or goes through any doors, and I only pet her when I call her over to me or go over to her. She isn't allowed on any furniture (though that was one of the first times she got mouthy- she thought she should be).

I'll definitely avoid any games with her (except the hands-off ones like searching or puzzles) while we work on this. I was more nervous that she would react like this if a small child or dog-loving friend tried to "play"...so we'll definitely keep her on a leash around anyone new for now.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I would not let Regen near a small child or actually strangers at this point. This is not saying anything bad about Regen ... actually this says more about kids and people in general. Most of them don't know how to approach/handle a dog and then they act like the dog is trying to kill them when the dog does anything like jump up or bark ...


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I would keep on with the training. This can do a lot to establish your relationship. It can lead to control of the unwanted behaviors also. I start with a positive training basis as you are. Once your dog has a good attitude and lots "want to" for training, then I add a bit of compulsion so that the dog learns the "have to" part. This takes time. 

In the meantime, avoiding the situations where she is likely to get amped too high is good. I also keep a short tab on my dog's collar so that I can reach it and get him to stop pounding me and sit. He learns the jumping and mouthing lead to having to stop play and get calm and sit. It does help him to be less likely to do the thing that results in the stop and sit activity. Once he is sitting and calm, I resume the play. This seems to work better than just stopping altogether or having a "time out".


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## klgraf (May 2, 2010)

I'm no expert, only have my first ever dog, a female GSD (7 mos) adopted two months ago from our local shelter.

However, I've become a fan of Jolanta Benal's The Dog Trainer, Quick and Dirty Tips podcasts (available for free on iTunes). Each podcast addresses a specific issue/behavior. If you don't have an iPod, you can still just listen to these on any computer. She is definitely a knowledgeable gal. Everything I've tried that she has suggested has worked 100%. I just listened to a podcast on nipping, episode #2 "Little Shark Teeth." I also really liked episonde #10 "Tug of ....Peace." My dog loves to play tug and I'm teaching her Jolanta's way. It is working great!!

Good luck....I see you've gotten lots of great advice here on this forum.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i don't know how much excercise the dogs gets but some of it might be pent up energy, along with the excitement.........

i would learn how to play interact with your dog, with rules.........there is all kinds of info via yahoo on dog training/interacting etc..............honestly, dog training/trainers are expensive, but well worth the money.even if you can't afford to stay in training/classes, private or whatever, at least go to a professional a few times to get some ideas on how to properly handle your dog.............

i can't imagine how much money i have spent on training, but i always got alot out of it with each new dog i had.........a good trainer can teach you alot in a short time, if your willing to stick to things.....

best of luck...


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

We'll definitely need to do something.

She has started being mouthy with visitors. Yesterday a friend came over and she jumped up and then started nipping her. Today a friend came over and for whatever reason, when we were sitting at the kitchen table, Regen walked under the table and started biting at her knees and elbows. When I pulled her away, she just started barking at her, and then went back to nibble some more. I crated her for the rest of the time that the friend was over.

Ugh. This is bratty behavior and I'm not sure how to extinguish it. Hard to "ignore" sharp adult GSD teeth on your skin.

The strange part is she doesn't seem to have much energy for the exercise I'd like her to be doing. She doesn't want to go on long walks and tires out running very quickly.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think you should be able to control this nipping company through Obedience.........my young male was attacking and nipping peoples feet when they were sitting visiting, if they would move or shift their feet he would go after them, it wasn't really an aggressive thing, more of an impulse thing..........i set him up with several people had them move their feet and did "leave its" etc......teaching self control, impulse control helps alot with these issues..........the nipping stuff becomes an obsessive thing unless addressed..............alot of these behaviors can be removed, its a matter of teaching them appropriate behaviors just as you would a child........

just remember the more he nips people the more it becomes a normal behavior for the dog..........until you get a handle on it, i wouldn't put him in a position where he might do it......once you get the right guidence you can set things up and work on reversing the behavior....


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Working on down stay is a skill that can help with this. Of course she is a young dog and you need the knowledge and consistency to train the behaviors that can then be used to control lots of behaviors. Often we want to "stop" behaviors and find a way to extinguish them by acting on the behavior itself. This is not always the most effective. Teaching competing behaviors such as a stay or a "relax" can be very useful. Then the dog has something "to do" rather than something to "not do". When we ask dogs to not do something it can be more difficult. It is best to give them something to do. If she starts nipping at someone and you don't have a down stay traner as yet perhaps get treats out and do obedience things right by the person. Work on sit and down, anything where the she is given direction by you rather than just being told to stop doing something. They are not like us in thought process and can't always come up with the idea of what to do instead.

My young dogs work on their obedience behaviors throughout the day in all our interactions. It is a way of life.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Runswithdogs said:


> We'll definitely need to do something.
> 
> 
> The strange part is she doesn't seem to have much energy for the exercise I'd like her to be doing. She doesn't want to go on long walks and tires out running very quickly.


If she's vetted out fine, it may be she's just in poor shape right now and you'll have to build up to get her physically fit.

MENTALLY she's rarin' to go. I'd really sign up for some dog classes right now. You have any herding in your area? Clicker training would also be ideal....

Teaching a trick is the least important part of teaching a trick


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## Runswithdogs (May 8, 2010)

Thank you guys...I will definitely start working on her down-stay and leave it, she is very intelligent and loves training. This bratty episode happened right at the same time as a bout of diarrhea, so part of it might have been that she was bored/restless from not doing as much training and not feeling good.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Watch the videos and read about 'trick' training!


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## dak11 (Mar 12, 2010)

Samba said:


> I also keep a short tab on my dog's collar so that I can reach it and get him to stop pounding me and sit. He learns the jumping and mouthing lead to having to stop play and get calm and sit. It does help him to be less likely to do the thing that results in the stop and sit activity. Once he is sitting and calm, I resume the play. This seems to work better than just stopping altogether or having a "time out".


We started using a tab (we just cut an old leash into a 1' leash with a knot in it) along with her collar whenever we're in the house because our 9 month old pup still tends to get excitable and unruly. A quick correction along with some commands usually gets her back into a calmer state. She's still mouthy and nips here and there (usually not very hard) but the tab gives us a way to get control of her and the situation rather then allowing her to run away and continue with the behavior.

We're also going to try an ignore phase in her training starting this week. If she gets too out of control we're going to walk away and ignore her for a while to show her that if she continues to act badly she'll lose interaction with us.


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## simon_says (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm brand new here but this thread really struck a chord with me and I wanted to comment. I adopted a 1.5 yr old shepherd mix from the shelter a few months ago, and about 3 weeks in he too started this biting behavior. He got so rowdy with it that I had bruises and blood blisters all over my back, and he actually ripped my shirt from his worst 'episode'. That was the point where I seriously considered returning the dog. I also felt a huge liability over him possibly doing this to children or strangers.

So I wanted to sympathize with you that I know it is painful physically, but even more so emotionally. I could see that 'look' in his eye and could predict when he was about to do it. It moved from a playful behavior to like you said just downright bratty or defiant when I made him do something he didn't want to (like get off the couch). Not true aggression, but sort of a controlling/intimidating behavior. He would do it on walks too which made me feel powerless. 

However, there is hope!! I worked with a trainer and did all of the techniques already given to you in this thread - removing myself from him, beefing up my leadership and obedience training, holding his collar tight so that he couldn't turn his head to get his teeth on me (I did this on a few walks when I had no other option, also gave him a sit command and made him sit for a minute until we both felt calmer). Over several weeks he went from doing it multiple times a day to maybe once a day to now, where he has only done it once or twice in the past month. And now he stops instantly when I get eye contact. I attribute a lot of the progress to just developing my relationship with him, getting comfortable with each other and setting up lots of boundaries. NILIF has been central in our training too. Today he is a loving, loyal, playful, still BOISTEROUS but much more gentle doggy, and I'm so glad I was able to stick it out with him. In the past few months I have seen a lot of bad behaviors rise up and get extinguished, some quicker than others, and I assume there is only more yet to come.

Hopefully with time things will improve for you too. I'd love to hear an update and if anything worked especially well for you. If nothing else, I sympathize and completely understand how scared and sad this may make you feel.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm on my first GSD, but I've raised and trained 3 well behaved Rhodesian Ridgebacks over the last 25+ years. I find that the most important skill you can learn (you) is to "turn off the fun" as soon as the undesirable behavior occurs. You're playing, running, whatever and the dog start to get nippy... simply stop everything, use a firm and low toned "NO" and then immediately ignore her/him. There will likely be another couple of attempts to gain your attention (read: rough play), but be firm with the "no" and continue ignoring and no eye contact. This is a fairly clear sign that the behavior is unacceptable and will not gain any reward, such as more play, which is what they want. Keep repeating. By the way, this is half as effective if you have not established yourself as the clear alpha dog.


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