# Can SL gsd's make a good personal protection dog?



## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm not planning on training my gsd pup in personal protection but I was just wondering. I was doing some research on the topic and basically everybody out there is saying that on WL gsd's are good for personal protection and for working. And that SL gsd's are weaker, more shy and not good for protection at all. In fact there was one person who said that they wouldn't trust a SL gsd to protect any of his/her family members. Also that they will do nothing more than bark at strangers and that they are much friendlier with them. I really don't want to believe what these people said! I just found a wonderful SL gsd pup that I'm planning on getting in a week. (from a reputable breeder of coarse). 
Is what they said true? Please tell me your experiences with both lines. Thank you so much guys!


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## boomer11 (Jun 9, 2013)

Is there something you need protection from? If so get a gun. 

A well bred stable german Shepherd is a good deterrent no matter what line it's from. From my own experience i did find my show line to be much more friendly and would run up to people to sniff them etc. My working line is much more aloof and would just watch strangers. I never have to worry about him running up to people. 

Either way I wouldn't count on a dog with no training to protect you no matter which line it's from. If I had to choose a line to train in personal protection it would 110% be working line though. They are bred to train, not to look pretty.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

Heres something to consider- if the dog is kept in a cage at night it cant do much. I have a tough girl but shes crated.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes. If the dog has the right drives, instincts, temperament and nerves, the lines won't matter.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

lhczth said:


> Yes. If the dog has the right drives, instincts, temperament and nerves, the lines won't matter.


thank you so much! I was hoping that those people were wrong about them


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> thank you so much! I was hoping that those people were wrong about them


It's been said before, a good dog is a good dog regardless of lines.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

boomer11 said:


> Is there something you need protection from? If so get a gun.
> 
> A well bred stable german Shepherd is a good deterrent no matter what line it's from. From my own experience i did find my show line to be much more friendly and would run up to people to sniff them etc. My working line is much more aloof and would just watch strangers. I never have to worry about him running up to people.
> 
> Either way I wouldn't count on a dog with no training to protect you no matter which line it's from. If I had to choose a line to train in personal protection it would 110% be working line though. They are bred to train, not to look pretty.


Yup. Plus youre a human being. Youre smarter and more innovative than a dog. Why trust your protection and well being to an animal with a brain the size of a lemon?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Also in before david talks about how fama saved him in war time. Different set of circumstances. If youre going to kabul or something ok take a good dog but might want a gun too.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Baillif said:


> Yup. Plus youre a human being. Youre smarter and more innovative than a dog. Why trust your protection and well being to an animal with a brain the size of a lemon?


Hehe. If a GSD has a brain the size of a lemon, what does a Chihuahua have? 
Kumquat?


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Hehe. If a GSD has a brain the size of a lemon, what does a Chihuahua have?
> Kumquat?


Two lima beans pushed together


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

My WGSL Ilda is very aloof with strangers.

No growling or heckling but when approached by strangers she's not open mouthed, tongue lolling out tail wagging. 

She just does not invite or seek affection from strangers at all. Totally in love with her 'pack' though, affectionate and cuddly.

I don't know how much pressure she could take in an all out physical attack on one of her pack before breaking, but her aloof and direct watchful nature is enough deterrent for most.......

Agree with others, the deterrent effect is enough.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Baillif said:


> Also in before david talks about how fama saved him in war time. Different set of circumstances. If youre going to kabul or something ok take a good dog but might want a gun too.


Ha... And a platoon of armed battle buddies 

Yeah, different circumstances for sure. I would also add that, generally speaking, what a working dog accomplishes with it's nose is far more substantial than what it does with it's teeth. 

The right dog of any suitable breed or lines can be trained in personal protection. The challenge is finding the right dog IMHO.

David Winners


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

it depends on the dog and it depends on the genuine need .

it is never wise to expose yourself to a high risk situation .

Your level of personal protection is not "industrial grade" , probably more household deterent . 

You apparently have a pup picked out already , make very sure that the parents are stable , and not reactive . Make sure the pup you pick out is confident -- not the shy or inhibited pup.

Train the dog . A dog with great obedience always looks "scarier" because the person who may offend you has no idea how far the extent of that training has gone . 
A little disciplined heeling and bark on command looks much more impressive than the out of control dog . Why the person may think the dog has "movie" magical powers -- another Jerry Lee k9cop .

Part of the total picture . If I were to victimize I would move in on the out of control team --


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

David Winners said:


> Ha... And a platoon of armed battle buddies
> 
> Yeah, different circumstances for sure. I would also add that, generally speaking, what a working dog accomplishes with it's nose is far more substantial than what it does with it's teeth.
> 
> ...


Its an odds game and the odds are much better with WLs.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I believe that it is our responsibility to protect our dogs not the other way around. They need protection from themselves, from irresponsible neighbors, from other dogs, and from society in general. Although my dog would not hesitate to engage a threat, I would quickly step between him and the threat to protect him and the threat. His confidence and willingness to engage is all I need. I don't want him to ever actually have to bite someone for me or my family.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Wisdom that is being lost?......

:thumbup::thumbup:

As it was explained to me by a trainer who trains personal protection, property protection and LEO K9s.

Most people don't need a dog that will do 'offense'. A good defense is all that as needed, if that.



carmspack said:


> *it depends on the dog and it depends on the genuine need .
> *
> *it is never wise to expose yourself to a high risk situation .
> *
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

btw Often times I find myself driving after dark, by myself and Ilda rides with me.

Not because I think she's some rip roarin' man fightin' beast.

but because I think someone looking for an easy target is going to pass on this.... (click to enlarge the pic to see 'the watchful look' I was talking about) I don't even get a lot of people asking to pet her because she just has this 'look'...for lack of better explantion.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When I travel my dog rides crated so nobody sees him...he would not be a deterrant. He doesn't blow up when people walk past my vehicle either. So, even though he could easily pass as a protection trained dog, he wouldn't be able to deter anyone from whatever their crazy mind wanted to do.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Blk GSD in a car with tinted windows works out pretty well also`Rocky and I roll in stealth mode yo!


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

robk said:


> I believe that it is our responsibility to protect our dogs not the other way around. They need protection from themselves, from irresponsible neighbors, from other dogs, and from society in general. Although my dog would not hesitate to engage a threat, I would quickly step between him and the threat to protect him and the threat. His confidence and willingness to engage is all I need. I don't want him to ever actually have to bite someone for me or my family.


Well put! Thanks


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Ilda barks if someone gets close, but mostly it's just 'the look' depending on how close they get.

The thing is most crooks aren't crazy, most are opportunists looking for the easiest target. They'll pass by a barking dog in a car and if it's a barking German Shepherd so much the better.

If you're in a high drug use area then they can get a little crazy, I've seen it in parts of Miami personally.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

LOL!! 




Chip18 said:


> Blk GSD in a car with tinted windows works out pretty well also`Rocky and I roll in stealth mode yo!


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I had an interest in ring sport for awhile, and honestly much as I adore my golden, everyone wants to pet him/touch him, even if he's giving them a face that clearly says to me he thinks that we're going to die, he wouldn't work for it, nor did I feel particularly safe with just him when I had to go from my car to my work when I was called in late or getting off late. I'm a realist, I know that not even a dog could deter someone with enough motive, but we have plenty of strange people floating around when the hour gets later (in part since there's some drug activity in the area I work, regardless of the police station down the road - took 45 minutes with the panic button accidentally pressed to get police there). 

All I really was hoping for was a dog who would bark, bringing notice to me and the potential "threatening" thing. My golden only barks when playing or when really frustrated (however lately he also will bark at strangers if he has backup or a fence there because he has seen me working with the shepherds and knows I like the barking).

I admit my heart always will be set on white shepherds. My first dog, my best friend and heart dog, was a white shepherd rescue from the shelter I volunteered at for 3 years. She was the dog I finally got to save, and her spirit, her heart and her intelligence were some of the things I loved the most about her. That even with severe HD, she would still follow me everywhere, stay at my side when things were tough and would have gone to bat for me, even if she likely would have failed. Just knowing she'd try for me was always the thing I loved the most about her.

My older female Leia comes from what I think is WGSL background (I can list her pedigree for people who know more than I do lol) and at her instinct test you never would have seen the dog who drags me onto the field now. Her drives are all defense, she loves the fight and nothing makes her happier than telling people to stay away from her car and her mom. She's definitely still in training and I trust the decoy to keep us in the right direction, but even if she had some anxiety when I first got her, she was a friendly and confident dog. She had no problems meeting new people and generally ignores other dogs. She has a confidence and happiness about her now that is contagious. I am proud of her. I never really was sure we'd even get her to bark if people came near.

So it can take the right dog, but I figured I'd toss my voice into the lot who say it can be found. My male I got from similar lines is showing promise too. The trainer I work with thinks he will be a really nice balanced dog.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> I'm not planning on training my gsd pup in personal protection but I was just wondering. I was doing some research on the topic and basically everybody out there is saying that on WL gsd's are good for personal protection and for working. And that SL gsd's are weaker, more shy and not good for protection at all. In fact there was one person who said that they wouldn't trust a SL gsd to protect any of his/her family members. Also that they will do nothing more than bark at strangers and that they are much friendlier with them. I really don't want to believe what these people said! I just found a wonderful SL gsd pup that I'm planning on getting in a week. (from a reputable breeder of coarse).
> Is what they said true? Please tell me your experiences with both lines. Thank you so much guys!


Well if you pick the right numbers you can win the lotto but the odds are pretty slim.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

If you found a dog that you feel fits your family, I wouldn't listen to showline detractors.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Fitting into the family and meeting the requirements for responsible PPD training and service are vastly different things.

David Winners


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I believe Liesje has a WGSL dog that has some personal protection training. It can be done. I don't know anything about the genetics of your pup, but that's what will determine whether it's suited or not. Not the fact it's SL, regardless of what some posters here believe.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Yes, but the OP did not say that she wanted a PPD dog. Just that she'd been hearing negative things


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Germanshepherdlover2507 said:


> I'm not planning on training my gsd pup in personal protection but I was just wondering. I was doing some research on the topic and basically everybody out there is saying that on WL gsd's are good for personal protection and for working. And that SL gsd's are weaker, more shy and not good for protection at all. In fact there was one person who said that they wouldn't trust a SL gsd to protect any of his/her family members. Also that they will do nothing more than bark at strangers and that they are much friendlier with them. I really don't want to believe what these people said! I just found a wonderful SL gsd pup that I'm planning on getting in a week. (from a reputable breeder of coarse).
> Is what they said true? Please tell me your experiences with both lines. Thank you so much guys!


my take on the OP's question is that she wants reassurance that the negative comments are not true , which to me is signalling some reservation whether she has made a good decision , whether the dog will be adequate for her needs. 
"I really don't want to believe what these people said! "

again the answer depends on the nature of her needs .

maybe the OP wants to have the breeder or the pup checked out on the forum to discuss the potentials?


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Where there is enough smoke there may be fire..
Saw a 3yr old X Box son work today. He was actually quite decent, though definitely not in the same class as a good working line male. 
Pretty dog but the structure was much too heavy, nice ball drive though..


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

Carmen has the right idea more or less. If you get a good confident dog that can bark on command and heel and looks to be under control it will deter most threats. They don't know he's barking for a cookie.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I have a SL male. I've had a few working lines as well now and for PPD I would chose the SL every time. Each dog has had different strengths and weaknesses but he's always been higher threshold (important to me), very natural secondary obedience (I don't have to fight him to control him during protection work), more aloof and discerning type dog, more neutral and less social than my working lines. He's naturally protective of himself, me, our property, and even my other dogs to an extent, but has a high enough threshold where he is safe around other dogs not getting in his face and safe around my family and friends. Also he's easy for me to control. Even though he's by far my most serious dog, I don't worry about him because he typically just ignores guests (whereas my more social dogs are annoying with begging, soliciting people to play, being young and rowdy and bumping into people). He barks well and looks convincing (no squeaky barks or teeth snapping). He's also confident in alerting/showing aggression at the end of a leash with no biting. I see a lot of dogs with huge powerful bites but show more security in biting than they do in guarding and protecting and really, how often is a dog outside of sport/trialing actually supposed to bite someone? The older he gets the more I like his temperament and style. I do not consider him a PPD because that's not why I got him or how I tailor his training but I'd pick him over all the dogs I've owned, help train, or even come to know through training. I won't say "yes, SL dogs make fine PPDs" though. Totally depends on the dog, the lines, the training. You're probably more likely to find a really strong dog with sound nerves from good working lines. I would not bank on your puppy being suitable for PPD unless the bloodlines and/or the performance of other dogs in the pedigree gave you a good reason to think so. Maybe I got lucky with my particular dog, would clone him if I could!


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Lines don't matter as much as the individual dogs. All we can do from questions like this is speak in generalities. If that's the case then, a WL will most likely make a better PPD. That being said, I believe many WL out there wouldn't be right for the job either. So again it all comes down to the individual dogs. Unfortunately this is not something you can really know until the dog is about 10-20 months. That's why many go with green dogs. 

I don't know if you need a PPD or not. Not my place to say. What I can say is that I consider my GSD's PPD's. There are many advantages of using a dog vrs. only relying on a gun. People often say "if you're that worried about it get a gun". The way I see it, a gun is my last resort. A gun will escalate a situation. I would rather deescalate the situation. A dog can be turned on and off. A gun even with a ccw if drawn must be fired or you're in the wrong. A dog can be much more accurate than a person firing a gun in a high stress situation. Do I think a dog should be your only line of defense? Nope! But anyone who has ever been in a life or death situation can tell you, all you need is time. A PPD can provide you with a great distraction and buy you those valuable milliseconds. For the people that say they would die for their dogs. I find that silly! I wish no harm on my dogs but push come to shove, I would rather my dog get killed being a hero than my fiance or myself die or go to jail for killing someone. That's the cold truth of it.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

A gun can de-escalate a sitution faster than a dog. If youre really being threatened enough to deploy the dog drawing a gun is appropriate imo. If they truely mean you ill intent they probably wont be running to the cops about you drawing anyway.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

Baillif said:


> A gun can de-escalate a sitution faster than a dog. If youre really being threatened enough to deploy the dog drawing a gun is appropriate imo. If they truely mean you ill intent they probably wont be running to the cops about you drawing anyway.



My point is, you can't legally draw the gun and point it at someone to get them to leave you alone. If you draw you must shoot. Plus the time it takes to draw your gun and acquire the target. I doubt most people out there are experts in firearms and practice every day. A dog has many different threat levels other that just bite. If it comes down to the dog biting then now the dog is buying me that valuable time I need to draw, acquire and shoot.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

we should just agree that should you find yourself in that situation, there are a couple directions things can go. Some are good, some are bad and that is regardless of the dog, gun, knife, bible, mace or words you have in your possession. 

I think it's safe to say that nobody really has a clue what will happen until the **** goes down and by that time it doesn't matter anymore. Guns can de-escalate, they can also make things much much worse for either party. knowing you have them will keep people out of your house while you're there and make others case the joint to see when you're gone so they can come steal them. Which is better? Dogs are a deterrent or they bite the wrong person, or they just get shot or poisoned before they ever break in. Some people talk their way into or out of anything.

So what is best?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

If you can ever get the chance to...go see a SL and a WL that have been trained by the same helper and TD and hopefully handlers with "equal" skill levels. Doesn't have to be PPD work, you're more than likely going to find what I'm talking about at a Schutzhund club.

Go see the difference. And yes, genetics of each particular dog matter, but if you can see 5 WL and 5 SL worked like this, you'll understand why most people will tell you WL make for better PPD work. True PPDs are almost non-existent, so if you want to look at a larger population, look at K9s. WL dogs greatly outnumber SL dogs in that population. There are definitely some SL dogs that are K9s, but the great majority will be WL.

PPD work has A LOT of pressure. There aren't many dogs (including WL) that would be able to take the type of pressure truly fighting a human would place on a dog. Just imagine what a real life bite would look like...very unlikely that the person is just going to take a bite lying down. Punching, kicking, grabbing, the dog...all possible things. Very few dogs can actually stand up to that kind of pressure.

But anyways...just actually go watch the dogs work. You'll understand what many people are talking about.

If you're just looking for a deterrent...a SL would probably make a better deterrent because they tend to be larger, have larger heads, and a more bulky build. Most people judge the power of the dog by the size/weight.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:





crackem said:


> we should just agree that should you find yourself in that situation, there are a couple directions things can go. Some are good, some are bad and that is regardless of the dog, gun, knife, bible, mace or words you have in your possession.
> 
> I think it's safe to say that nobody really has a clue what will happen until the **** goes down and by that time it doesn't matter anymore. Guns can de-escalate, they can also make things much much worse for either party. knowing you have them will keep people out of your house while you're there and make others case the joint to see when you're gone so they can come steal them. Which is better? Dogs are a deterrent or they bite the wrong person, or they just get shot or poisoned before they ever break in. Some people talk their way into or out of anything.
> 
> So what is best?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Baillif said:


> A gun can de-escalate a sitution faster than a dog. If youre really being threatened enough to deploy the dog drawing a gun is appropriate imo. If they truely mean you ill intent they probably wont be running to the cops about you drawing anyway.


Personally, I prefer a GSD with protective instincts over a gun for several reasons. My dogs have way more training than I have experience handling a gun. I've spent a lot of time and money on good dogs and training, I'm not really willing or in a position to have that same commitment with using weapons. Dogs alert me to thing that I don't even hear. A gun won't wake me up with a bark or even a subtle "wff" and a hard stare at someone I didn't notice. There are times where I have appreciated the presence of my dog (not saying I asked him to alert or bite, but was glad to have him there...) where it would have been inappropriate if not illegal to pull a weapon on someone because I got a bad vibe. What I've been told from my concealed carry friends is that you do not draw and point a weapon if you aren't prepared to fire. My dog, I can take with me jogging after dark simply as a precaution and his presence can turn away people before there is even a real threat to draw a gun at. I do agree that drawing a gun and actually sending a dog to *bite* are similar if not the same but I don't have my dog because I can send him to bite someone, I have him because he makes a fantastic visual deterrent and there's a lot he can do legally on a 4' leash without making contact that would turn a lot of people away without there having to be a physical assault or guns being drawn. Lastly, I spend a lot of time at work, obviously, and also do tracking and training on the same campus where I work. It is a private campus and guns are banned, but my dog is allowed to be there.

Again I don't consider my dog a PPD, he's just a GSD with protection training (including some muzzle work and some double blind scenarios that prove to me as best we can in training that he's there and ready) and has some titles that include various types of protection, but his temperament is such that he is good at reading a threat and acting the way I would want him to act in threatening situations while also having the control. It's not why I got my dogs but it sure is a great bonus. The traits that I like in a dog as far as how I like them to behave at home and how I like to train and title also make him a good protector naturally. I guess a good GSD *should* be a PPD.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Liesje, that's it, the look I was trying to describe you mention "the hard stare". Ilda has that and you know she doesn't flinch a muscle, she doesn't raise a hair. She closes her mouth and stares and just that is a deterrent a lot of times.

There were some rednecky types picnicking in the park one day. I walked past and they stared at Ilda, who stared back, but we kept walking. I watched as a couple, man and woman walked by with a sweet happy looking Golden. Sure enough they literally hassled and followed that couple trying to feed their dog. Not criminal but really encroaching on their space.

I'm sure the thought fleeted across their minds as whether to mess with me and Ilda when we had walked by, hence the staring at her, but she stared back and they left us alone.

Good posts!!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Personally, I prefer a GSD with protective instincts over a gun for several reasons. My dogs have way more training than I have experience handling a gun. I've spent a lot of time and money on good dogs and training, I'm not really willing or in a position to have that same commitment with using weapons. Dogs alert me to thing that I don't even hear. A gun won't wake me up with a bark or even a subtle "wff" and a hard stare at someone I didn't notice. There are times where I have appreciated the presence of my dog (not saying I asked him to alert or bite, but was glad to have him there...) where it would have been inappropriate if not illegal to pull a weapon on someone because I got a bad vibe. What I've been told from my concealed carry friends is that you do not draw and point a weapon if you aren't prepared to fire. My dog, I can take with me jogging after dark simply as a precaution and his presence can turn away people before there is even a real threat to draw a gun at. I do agree that drawing a gun and actually sending a dog to *bite* are similar if not the same but I don't have my dog because I can send him to bite someone, I have him because he makes a fantastic visual deterrent and there's a lot he can do legally on a 4' leash without making contact that would turn a lot of people away without there having to be a physical assault or guns being drawn. Lastly, I spend a lot of time at work, obviously, and also do tracking and training on the same campus where I work. It is a private campus and guns are banned, but my dog is allowed to be there.
> 
> Again I don't consider my dog a PPD, he's just a GSD with protection training (including some muzzle work and some double blind scenarios that prove to me as best we can in training that he's there and ready) and has some titles that include various types of protection, but his temperament is such that he is good at reading a threat and acting the way I would want him to act in threatening situations while also having the control. It's not why I got my dogs but it sure is a great bonus. The traits that I like in a dog as far as how I like them to behave at home and how I like to train and title also make him a good protector naturally. I guess a good GSD *should* be a PPD.



This is an interesting POV. I am extremely comfortable with a weapon (I shoot daily and used to shoot competitively) and I carry wherever I go. I have unfortunately been in a situation where I did have to draw my weapon in self defense, and I would not be here today had I been unable to do that. However, I agree that my dog is still my best deterrent, if solely for the fact that his senses are much sharper than mine. 

As you said, he can alert me before I'd even know a threat was there. Most Joe Schmoe muggers, rapists will be deterred solely by a barking GSD... so I think in that sense, a dog does de-escalate the situation faster, because in 90% of cases, it stops the situation before it starts and buys you some time and space. If the attacker means business and is not deterred by a large shepherd who is alerting (and at that point, the attacker is probably very armed), the dog at least buys me time to think and prepare. 

Crackem, everything you said is spot-on... there are so many scenarios where a dog would be a deterrent, so many where a dog wouldn't... so many where a gun would be, and so many where a gun wouldn't...
In terms of REAL PPD's, the fine line where a dog has to know more than to bark/look scary, it's debatable how effective that is- especially because there are do few dogs who can appropriately perform that job. Day to day, though, some creep on the street isn't going to say, "that dog is a showline, I'll bet his handler is an easy target."


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

A good "hard stare" from Viktor, and most people cross the street. Then he looks up at me like, "wha'd I do???"


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Lol! 




gsknight said:


> a good "hard stare" from viktor, and most people cross the street. Then he looks up at me like, "wha'd i do???"


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## Jmoore728 (Oct 17, 2013)

mycobraracr said:


> Lines don't matter as much as the individual dogs. All we can do from questions like this is speak in generalities. If that's the case then, a WL will most likely make a better PPD. That being said, I believe many WL out there wouldn't be right for the job either. So again it all comes down to the individual dogs. Unfortunately this is not something you can really know until the dog is about 10-20 months. That's why many go with green dogs.
> 
> I don't know if you need a PPD or not. Not my place to say. What I can say is that I consider my GSD's PPD's. There are many advantages of using a dog vrs. only relying on a gun. People often say "if you're that worried about it get a gun". The way I see it, a gun is my last resort. A gun will escalate a situation. I would rather deescalate the situation. A dog can be turned on and off. A gun even with a ccw if drawn must be fired or you're in the wrong. A dog can be much more accurate than a person firing a gun in a high stress situation. Do I think a dog should be your only line of defense? Nope! But anyone who has ever been in a life or death situation can tell you, all you need is time. A PPD can provide you with a great distraction and buy you those valuable milliseconds. For the people that say they would die for their dogs. I find that silly! I wish no harm on my dogs but push come to shove, I would rather my dog get killed being a hero than my fiance or myself die or go to jail for killing someone. That's the cold truth of it.


I agree...I'm a firearms dealer and own many firearms...I work shift work...My wife handles firearms well, but having a dog with her at night gives her that additional security blanket. Even if it's just an alert in the middle of the night....Will my GSD be suitable for protection work? I don't know....Time will tell....Only 6 months old...We went to our first club yesterday and the director and additional helper said everything looked great with him...They really think he has what it takes. (SchH). Hopefully he will excel...He is showline on the top half of his pedigree and WL on the bottom half...Do I want a true WL GSD....Absolutely...A couple years down the road...hopefully....


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Dogs for me are an alarm and a deterrent. My gun is for saving my life. Most people do not open carry and brandishing a weapon is illegal. The nice thing about the dogs is that they are out in the open, visible making them a far greater deterrent.

I want to add. John Doe criminal most often does not know the difference between working and show lines. They see a GSD.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

I think my showline is a deterrent even though he is really pretty much a wuss. He looks impressive and when we are out walking/bike riding I really don't think people would mess with him. Also, he barks impressively at squirrels in the back yard so I bet the neighborhood thinks he is a watchdog. 

We are both goners if it gets to the point where he either has to back it up or I need to pull a gun (which I don't have anyway).


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Anecdotal story: Last summer, the dog and I were running down a country highway as usual. Big open fields on either side, there is a pass to the south, so high ridges on either side = lots of wild life. Suspicious truck decides to slow down as it passes us, then turn around, pass again going opposite direction. Tinted windows so I can't see who's driving, but to be stereotypical, it's a big, lifted black dodge with giant tires, so I'm guessing it's not a chick who wants to ask me about my running tights. 

Truck turns around again, goes by me slowly, then pulls off the road about 100 ft ahead, blocking my passing. I see the passenger door open. Rocket gets alert, but the movement of the door spooks a bunch of deer up from the meadow there, just beyond the truck (behind them, from our POV). They start bounding away, so Rocket starts this high prance, head high, tail out and up, and a big WOOF. It's almost dusk, the dudes don't see the deer. That door shut fast and the truck basically spun out and raced down the highway. 

*shrug* I'll take it. I've been shooting since I was 8 years old, I own a 10 gauge, a Winchester .30-30 my dad gave me, and a S&W .45. I'd go target shooting with anyone here.  I suppose I could get a thigh strap to carry it running, but I prefer the dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Thanks, LoveEcho. I really have nothing against weapons, I just don't care about them one way or the other. Like I said, the main issue with using one if I were to get into them is that I spend 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week (and often return evenings and weekends to train) on a campus where I'd never be able to carry a weapon, so for the majority of my waking life it would not be a reliable form of protection. I've thankfully never been in a position where a weapon would have helped or been necessary, and in contrast I have been shot at twice (one intentional, one a mistake that was very near deadly and had to involve the state police from two different states). So, anecdotally speaking, my dog has always been the more appropriate and effective form of protection. Ideally, I think both are best, I've just chosen not to have the responsibility of owning and learning to properly use a weapon.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Thanks, LoveEcho. I really have nothing against weapons, I just don't care about them one way or the other. Like I said, the main issue with using one if I were to get into them is that I spend 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week (and often return evenings and weekends to train) on a campus where I'd never be able to carry a weapon, so for the majority of my waking life it would not be a reliable form of protection. I've thankfully never been in a position where a weapon would have helped or been necessary, and in contrast I have been shot at twice (one intentional, one a mistake that was very near deadly and had to involve the state police from two different states). So, anecdotally speaking, my dog has always been the more appropriate and effective form of protection. Ideally, I think both are best, I've just chosen not to have the responsibility of owning and learning to properly use a weapon.


:thumbup: And too many people who shouldn't own them aren't as aware of that reality like you are... the most dangerous thing to do is carry a gun and not be comfortable with it. In that sense, for many people, a dog is 100% more effective. And, at that rate, it doesn't matter if the dog is WL or SL. There are freaky people out there who are crazy and a dog, or gun, won't matter- either way, you're screwed. But in general, for most "worst case" scenarios... a dog's presence will stop it before it begins. And, all that aside, there are plenty of examples of SL, SL/WL, etc who would kick butt and take names (including Nikon). 

If it ever gets to a point where a dog needs to do more than be a deterrent, the kind of dog required to be effective is not at all easy to come by...from any lines.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

lhczth said:


> Dogs for me are an alarm and a deterrent. My gun is for saving my life. Most people do not open carry and brandishing a weapon is illegal. The nice thing about the dogs is that they are out in the open, visible making them a far greater deterrent.
> 
> I want to add. * John Doe criminal most often does not know the difference between working and show lines. They see a GSD.*


 This is true, and I've witnessed certain people are very intimidated by the breed. They have no clue to the lineage, but do know that those 'police' dogs can detect drugs and weapons, so they take a wide berth or avoid the breed at all costs.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> This is true, and I've witnessed certain people are very intimidated by the breed. They have no clue to the lineage, but do know that those 'police' dogs can detect drugs and weapons, so they take a wide berth or avoid the breed at all costs.


LOL, good point!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

No kidding, people use to cross the street when they saw Kenya.....Kenya was 21" tall, 50lbs, not heavy-boned. Other than the pointy ears and black muzzle she's probably the most UNintimidating looking GSD ever! But most of the general public knows a GSD when they see one.


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## Germanshepherdlover2507 (Jan 8, 2013)

Wow thanks guys! You all gave me more information Than I expected to get. I loved all of your posts. Im so glad to hear that SL gsd's can be just as good as WL. 
love you all


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

LoveEcho said:


> This is an interesting POV. I am extremely comfortable with a weapon (I shoot daily and used to shoot competitively) and I carry wherever I go. I have unfortunately been in a situation where I did have to draw my weapon in self defense, and I would not be here today had I been unable to do that. However, I agree that my dog is still my best deterrent, if solely for the fact that his senses are much sharper than mine.
> 
> As you said, he can alert me before I'd even know a threat was there. Most Joe Schmoe muggers, rapists will be deterred solely by a barking GSD... so I think in that sense, a dog does de-escalate the situation faster, because in 90% of cases, it stops the situation before it starts and buys you some time and space. If the attacker means business and is not deterred by a large shepherd who is alerting (and at that point, the attacker is probably very armed), the dog at least buys me time to think and prepare.
> 
> ...




True! but picturing this made me laugh.


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Keep us updated on your puppy and how he develops.


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## Rexy (Jun 4, 2011)

Some show lines do have strong defence drive where defence hasn't been bred out of the line to the degree that it has in some working lines bred for extreme prey (sporting) drive. Show line dogs capable of protection are generally on the sharp side and over reactive which limits their user in protection roles.


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