# Puppy that feeds off of fear?



## TheMutleyCrue (Jan 30, 2015)

I own a male German shepherd dog puppy... His name is Sniper.
He is a super puppy with us. Affectionate, playful, (sometimes!) obedient and a bucket full of wonders and loves... he is 65 pounds of fun, and is 6 months old on Feb. 1st. With us, you'd think he couldn't hurt a fly.


But with other people- who show fear, he doesn't react very well to that...
Most people who meet him are instantly fearful because I can tell how he reacts to them. He has piercing yellow eyes which can be menacing to most people and black fur with a 'fluffy wolf face,' I'm assuming... anyways, I know of several people who admitted to me they are scared of him (including my friends) because he always growls at them and we need to keep him locked up when people are around. Keep in mind it's all the people who show fear; even if they don't admit it. I can tell by how HE reacts, and if they hesitate or ask if he's aggressive.
He doesn't show any aggressive behaviors with us at all, so he isn't dominant with us...

Here's an experience that happened a couple of days ago;
There were two ladies working at the pet store. When Erika(first worker) first saw him, her eyes lite up and he instantly liked her and did tricks with her. He was friendly, playful... he didn't pay too much mind to the other girl until...
Tammy(other girl) came out from behind the counter, she went down to touch him but she hesitated and moved her hand back a bit- she said 'Does he bite?'
I can see the fear in her eyes, and his hackles just began to spike up and he started growling at her. We corrected him, but now that he knows she's scared of him, he watches her whenever she moves.



Can somebody help us? Our other Shepherd is fine, expect for with strange dogs(she doesn't fight, but is challenging) but him... he just seems to feed off of fear of people? Why is this? How do we stop this behavior?
We're looking for trainers right now, but for the time being, we'll try to stop it as much as we can. Any tips?
Thanks!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

hopefully others that know far more than i will give you some advice. if i had this problem i would be hiring a trainer that specializes in gsd training. this is something you need to stop.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

So, dogs are very in tune to social cues. It sounds like he is a bit naturally reactive and suspicious. I don't think he "feeds off fear." I think what is going on is that when he senses fearful behavior, he suspects something is odd or wrong with the person. Kind of like how if you saw someone in a normal social situation suddenly acting frightened, you would worry they were unpredictable. He can't possibly know that he looks scary because he's big and black. Think about how confusing it would be if people were scared of you and you didn't know why.

I do think you should seek out a trainer who specializes in working with fearful/reactive dogs, and has experience with GSDs. This is the sort of thing that takes a long time to work through, can be complicated, and is hard to really give advice on without seeing the dog.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I went through something very similar with my dog. I worked with a behaviorist who recommended a program very similar to NILF. after a 2 week removal from people who seemed to initiate his behavior. It helped allow my dog to defer to me to make decisions on who is good and who is not. In my case it was people who stare at him and act nervous or hesitant. I agree with post below that ur dog is picking up on the suspicious behavior. I would recommend a behaviorist or at the very least do a search on NILF, Nothing in life is free . Dont give up hope it is something u can work on. My 2 yr old currently has his CGC and CGCA. If u have any questions regarding my dogs issues please feel free to pm me.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

My previous dog, Stella didn't like strangers..but, she never growled, just circled. We used to put her away until friends were inside and seated, then she could come out, but we asked that Stella be ignored, no eye contact, no touch... It worked. As she got older, we stopped putting her away, but the instructions were the same 'ignore her, no touch, no eye contact'.. I wish you luck with your boy.


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## TheMutleyCrue (Jan 30, 2015)

Where I live, trainers are hard to find but we believe we did find one that lives 25 minutes away, but we need to wait until her classes now are over. While we're waiting, we want ways to 'discourage' this behavior for the time being.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

Kaimeju said:


> So, dogs are very in tune to social cues. It sounds like he is a bit naturally reactive and suspicious. I don't think he "feeds off fear." I think what is going on is that when he senses fearful behavior, he suspects something is odd or wrong with the person. Kind of like how if you saw someone in a normal social situation suddenly acting frightened, you would worry they were unpredictable. He can't possibly know that he looks scary because he's big and black. Think about how confusing it would be if people were scared of you and you didn't know why.
> 
> I do think you should seek out a trainer who specializes in working with fearful/reactive dogs, and has experience with GSDs. This is the sort of thing that takes a long time to work through, can be complicated, and is hard to really give advice on without seeing the dog.


Completely agree. I've had two dogs that have done this. It's not normal to them, there is something off about the person. I'd work with a positive reinforcement trainer on look at that and counter conditioning methods.

I would NOT correct this behavior. He is concerned, and obviously not of the strongest nerves (or IMO, he wouldn't be doing this regularly) so if you correct his growling and warning signals, it's very possible that he will go straight to a bite. I would prevent people from approaching him unless you know they are completely comfortable with him, ask them to avoid eye contact, and work on Look At That training with him to teach him that ALL people are actually ok and he doesn't need to make a big deal out of them.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

TheMutleyCrue said:


> Where I live, trainers are hard to find but we believe we did find one that lives 25 minutes away, but we need to wait until her classes now are over. While we're waiting, we want ways to 'discourage' this behavior for the time being.


Gosh, yay, it doesn't sound like something you want to wait to fix. I don't have any advice because you don't want to do the wrong thing and inadvertently make the situation worse. Yikes! Can the trainer give you any advice about what to do in the meanwhile?


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## TheMutleyCrue (Jan 30, 2015)

Rangers_mom said:


> Gosh, yay, it doesn't sound like something you want to wait to fix. I don't have any advice because you don't want to do the wrong thing and inadvertently make the situation worse. Yikes! Can the trainer give you any advice about what to do in the meanwhile?


Her classes are over soon, I think in about two weeks. We take him to the pet stores to socialize and he has actually improved quite a bit. He used to growl at everyone, even if they didn't even notice him, but now it's only if people get to close or show fear towards him.
So, it's good he has maybe some progress with us, but yes... we're trying to get to the trainer A.S.A.P!


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

I hope you get help quickly. I would not be taking him to the pet store and around folks until you have some help. If he is growling at people who get close or "show fear" towards him, the next thing is a probable bite, since he is unpredictable towards certain people.


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## TheMutleyCrue (Jan 30, 2015)

wyominggrandma said:


> I hope you get help quickly. I would not be taking him to the pet store and around folks until you have some help. If he is growling at people who get close or "show fear" towards him, the next thing is a probable bite, since he is unpredictable towards certain people.


I don't think he has the courage to bite to be honest


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

TheMutleyCrue said:


> I don't think he has the courage to bite to be honest


If he's growling, that means he's aggravated and threatened by something. If he's pushed past his threshold, which EVERY dog has, he will bite. I would not be letting strangers come near him unless you are certain he is comfortable.

I have a dog that used to be selectively growly around strangers petting him. He never bit anyone because I was proactive and stopped letting strangers pet him, period, and did a ton of counter conditioning/LAT training. Now on the random occasion someone new greets him, he is totally fine.


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## TheMutleyCrue (Jan 30, 2015)

DJEtzel said:


> If he's growling, that means he's aggravated and threatened by something. If he's pushed past his threshold, which EVERY dog has, he will bite. I would not be letting strangers come near him unless you are certain he is comfortable.
> 
> I have a dog that used to be selectively growly around strangers petting him. He never bit anyone because I was proactive and stopped letting strangers pet him, period, and did a ton of counter conditioning/LAT training. Now on the random occasion someone new greets him, he is totally fine.


Don't worry, we don't let people pet him. What is good about him though that he has the capability to be friendly (super friendly, actually) with people, and isn't 100% vicious but as I said, if someone hesitates to pet him or shows fear, he gets mean. I've had people pet him before and he was all over them, excited, whining... other times, not so great!

But I'll get working on that trainer in the next few days! Do I stop letting people pet him, even if he is being friendly with them and excited?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

TheMutleyCrue said:


> Don't worry, we don't let people pet him. What is good about him though that he has the capability to be friendly (super friendly, actually) with people, and isn't 100% vicious but as I said, if someone hesitates to pet him or shows fear, he gets mean. I've had people pet him before and he was all over them, excited, whining... other times, not so great!
> 
> But I'll get working on that trainer in the next few days! Do I stop letting people pet him, even if he is being friendly with them and excited?


I will repeat what I said previously.... 

"I would NOT correct this behavior. He is concerned, and obviously not of the strongest nerves (or IMO, he wouldn't be doing this regularly) so if you correct his growling and warning signals, it's very possible that he will go straight to a bite. I would prevent people from approaching him unless you know they are completely comfortable with him, ask them to avoid eye contact, and work on Look At That training with him to teach him that ALL people are actually ok and he doesn't need to make a big deal out of them."


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## Bebe56 (Dec 8, 2014)

TheMutleyCrue said:


> We take him to the pet stores to socialize and he has actually improved quite a bit.


I believe that what he needs, lots of socialization... not necessarily direct interaction with other people/dogs, just walking him on a busy street, without stopping, or sitting on a park bench and let him watch people passing by. Talk and praise him all the time, builds confidence. If another dog growl at him (or the other way around) distract him with treat - that works also if you're talking to someone (he might feel ignored or jealous).


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## Big Brown Eyes (Jan 11, 2015)

Bebe56 said:


> I believe that what he needs, lots of socialization...



^

You don't need a trainer for this. Just get him around people, and establish your leadership over him. 

Small steps, one at a time... things like teaching him NO, the value of praise, loose leash walking etc, establish your leadership.

And when a dog gets exposed to things when young, he will never be scared of it when older.

So socialize him a lot.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> My previous dog, Stella didn't like strangers..but, she never growled, just circled. We used to put her away until friends were inside and seated, then she could come out, but we asked that Stella be ignored, no eye contact, no touch... It worked. As she got older, we stopped putting her away, but the instructions were the same 'ignore her, no touch, no eye contact'.. I wish you luck with your boy.


This worked with our pit mix, too. She was very fearful of strangers after we adopted her, but making sure people didn't make eye contact with her and letting her suss out the situation without fear of being touched got her over it. I know GSD's are very different than pitties, but hopefully this can at least be a starting point for you while waiting on the trainer. Good luck!


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

TheMutleyCrue said:


> I don't think he has the courage to bite to be honest


 Well, that will be an interesting thing to tell the police or animal control when he has taken a chunk out of someone.
This is an accident waiting to happen, and as long as he is around folks in public, it will happen.


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## TheMutleyCrue (Jan 30, 2015)

We found him a reputable trainer now who has dealt with aggressive dogs for 30 years. She's coming on Saturday  Don't worry!


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## Zeusthegsd143 (Nov 24, 2014)

wyominggrandma said:


> Well, that will be an interesting thing to tell the police or animal control when he has taken a chunk out of someone.
> This is an accident waiting to happen, and as long as he is around folks in public, it will happen.


She got a trainer. Trust me she'd never put him in a bad situation like that.


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