# Pets and kids: so much to consider



## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I've posted about this before (I think?) because it's a recurrent and pressing theme in our household. It's personal I know and I'm sorry...

My husband wants to have kids. We recently made a couple of big purchases (laminate in place of the carpet and a TRD Tacoma (Yosemite ATV time) so hopefully those will keep his mind off of it. But I'm vehemently against it. I'm terrified of a few things: 

Pets:
1) the shifting dynamics in terms of the pets. How will I make time for 8 fur babies? Will I have to rehome some (which for me is out of the question). But will my priorities change so much that rehoming will become a dreadful possibility? How will the dogs react: aggression? fear? submission? negatively? 

2) Splitting up; wt* does a kid go through during that part of life? And the pets?

General:
3)I had this dream a while back. That I had two kids; two boys. And in that dream I felt this compassion and love that I've never experienced before. It was so consuming that when I think about it, it makes me nauseous. Why would I want to feel like that for someone that may never make any kind of impact in this world?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Think of it this way: kids are 1000 times the work, expense, anxiety, frustration, lack of freedom, that you experience with pets. You also love them in an indescribable way that is mixed with worry. 

They are humans that you bring into the world and you are completely responsible for, at least for 18 years.
I could go on and on about this, but it's really late. I will say I am glad that I waited until I was old enough and stable enough to have them. And even so, it is the hardest thing I've ever done.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It doesn't matter if they make an impact in this world but they will impact your world. The one thing I regret is not having more kids. I miss not having small kids around all the time My dogs and cats love having the kids around and they get excited when they are here. You can still do the stuff you do with your dogs, that can be your time away and daddy can take care of the baby Cats don't require as much time or work. I'm not married, but marriage is full of compromises and I think your husband has done his part as far as the animals go, so maybe it's something you can consider. I was a young mom(my son and I are 20 yrs apart) and I'm happy that I was a young mom. I didn't consider raising my son hard work and I did it alone. I would do if over in a heartbeat. Raising my son has been my biggest accomplishment.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

All I can say is you cannot predict the outcome. There was recently some beautiful photos posted here of an infant baby girl placed on a female GSD that looked like it adored the baby. Other people I know say their dogs just kind of ignore the baby.

I only had two cats when my children were born, anything more than that would have been too much work, but then I had to work and help out with my husband's business from home. If you have a yard and don't have to work it may be possible.

I used to listen to the Dr. Laura radio show, and when people would call in with the question of one wanting kids and the other did not, she would recommend waiting until they both wanted children. You have a lot to consider...


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

And yes, 8 pets will become the least of your priorities.
In the first year, sleep and a shower will seem like gold. 

And later, of course, there is this lol:

https://my.news.yahoo.com/video/really-kids-164106567.html


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Since this is the shepherd board.... What makes you breedworthy? Your husband? What titles and certifications do you have? Have you both had your health checked? 

Ok seriously... I really wish I had thought about it a little more before I brought kids into this world. There is hereditary stuff from both our families that I wish we hadn't passed along. 

As far as pets go we had Nakita the white shepherd mix pictured in my avatar when my kids were born. She absolutely adored them and they adored her. We lucked out. This was also back in the 80's when temperament problems weren't as common as today.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> Since this is the shepherd board.... What makes you breedworthy? Your husband? What titles and certifications do you have? Have you both had your health checked?


LOL! 

Titles/certifications: I've a Masters and husband is a physician. 

Health: Meh. Pleading the 5th on that one.

Hips: Poor/bad for me. Turns into a kick the heels off can barely walk straight type of crawl when I get too drunk.

Remember, we're backyard breeders so be GENTLE!!!


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

I never thought I wanted kids. Until about 6 months before I found out that it's never going to be an option for me. Not naturally, not through adoption, not at all. Please don't overthink this situation or spend too much time "waiting". It's natural to have fears. Why not just let nature take over? If it's meant to be, it will happen. I had a friend that wanted kids but being pregnant could possibly kill her. She stopped taking her birth control and they did not try. Now she is pregnant. Do what's right for you and your family. But don't overthink it. Because if that option is EVER taken away from you, you will deeply miss what you never had. Best of luck and love to you, I feel you will be guided to make the right decision.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> I've posted about this before (I think?) because it's a recurrent and pressing theme in our household. It's personal I know and I'm sorry...
> 
> My husband wants to have kids. We recently made a couple of big purchases (laminate in place of the carpet and a TRD Tacoma (Yosemite ATV time) so hopefully those will keep his mind off of it. But I'm vehemently against it. I'm terrified of a few things:
> 
> ...


Here's my two cents. Take it or leave it. Any amount of anxiety over this probably indicates that you are not ready. 
Pets are always doable, it just depends on the pet how much work and effort is involved. I personally just sort of rolled with it. Kid and pets all survived, I did what I needed to do and never really gave it much thought.
Some kids really struggle with break ups, some don't. It depends on the child and the parents. But again if you are hesitating because of the possibility you need to examine that.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

We plan to have kids and my mentality regarding the pets is "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it." Most people I know my age having kids also have pets and everyone has/had a different experience. I won't let some "what ifs" scare me out of something as important as having a family (since that is what I want). In the past few years, the thought of having kids has informed which new pets I've taken in (or not). The past two dogs I've had, I chose dogs that erred on the side of being more open and social. The type of GSD I idealize is not necessarily the one that fits in my house or my hypothetical family. But I'm also not sitting here stressing about my older dogs and how the dynamics will change. Of course they will, but they've changed every time we've got a new dog or even a foster or board-and-train dog. 

We had a couple stay with us for an extended period while they were adopting a newborn infant (also living with us) so it was a good chance to see how my dogs did around that sort of change and having a newborn in the house.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> LOL!
> 
> Remember, we're backyard breeders so be GENTLE!!!


:rofl: I'll be gentle, can't say the same for others around here. 



> Hips: Poor/bad for me. Turns into a kick the heels off can barely walk straight type of crawl when I get too drunk.


BTW, I'm not sure if that is a hip problem or a poor diet problem. Have you considered switching to non-alcoholic kibble?


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Zeeva, If you do not want kids do not have kids. 

My mothers mom shot herself in the nursery when my mom was 5 days old. Grandpa raised her ON HIS OWN which was so weird for back then (my moms 66) he ran a farm and had way more then 8 animals, he never remarried and he did not ask for help. He wanted kids, i do not know if my grandma did  maybe post pardom ? but he did find time for everything from milking the cows to actually stitching her halloween costumes. That is inspiration right there if you need confidence boost, but again he wanted kids, his heart was in it..if your heart is not in it then you are being unfair to yourself and your offspring.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Ellimaybel said:


> I never thought I wanted kids. Until about 6 months before I found out that it's never going to be an option for me. Not naturally, not through adoption, not at all. Please don't overthink this situation or spend too much time "waiting". It's natural to have fears. Why not just let nature take over? If it's meant to be, it will happen. I had a friend that wanted kids but being pregnant could possibly kill her. She stopped taking her birth control and they did not try. Now she is pregnant. Do what's right for you and your family. But don't overthink it. Because if that option is EVER taken away from you, you will deeply miss what you never had. Best of luck and love to you, I feel you will be guided to make the right decision.


Is it really natural to have over 7 billion people in this world? We humans are held up by such artificial means in terms of our population count...why push it even if it is just one person at a time?


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Zeeva, If you do not want kids do not have kids.
> 
> My mothers mom shot herself in the nursery when my mom was 5 days old. Grandpa raised her ON HIS OWN which was so weird for back then (my moms 66) he ran a farm and had way more then 8 animals, he never remarried and he did not ask for help. He wanted kids, i do not know if my grandma did  maybe post pardom ? but he did find time for everything from milking the cows to actually stitching her halloween costumes. That is inspiration right there if you need confidence boost, but again he wanted kids, his heart was in it..if your heart is not in it then you are being unfair to yourself and your offspring.


Thank you for sharing this. I can't even fathom how much love your grandfather must've had for your mom...


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

A couple of years ago i lost a baby, my birth control failed. My partners response to my pregnancy was "why dont you fall down the stairs or go play in traffic" it was the most hurtful brutal thing ever said to me. He obviously did not want another child. I cannot imagine what it would have been like if i went to term, being with someone who was so mean about it? i have already played the single struggling working mother game and frankly tho rewarding it was hard and i am not up for it again.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Zeeva said:


> Is it really natural to have over 7 billion people in this world? We humans are held up by such artificial means in terms of our population count...why push it even if it is just one person at a time?


 Not to try and influence you, but I saw these numbers a while back and found it interesting enough to save:



Texas=268,820 sq miles
268,820 sq miles=172,044,800 acres
8 houses per acre=1,376,358,400 houses
5 people per house=6,881,792,000 people


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

If you think you will want kids at some point but just not right now, don't rush it.

I think 9 times out of 10 no one is prepared for a kid or what they will do to your lifestyle, even when the pregnancy is planned. Just know that if it were to happen, things will work themselves out, somehow someway. 

I'm sure you weren't prepared for the repercussions of adding each dog, but you managed and adjusted and can't see life any other way.

That being said, I'm one of those people born knowing I not only want kids, but I need them. However I'm 26 and currently don't see children in the near future.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I didn't want children. I was gifted with one. When she was born I had two dogs. When she was two, I had two dogs, a cat and two horses. When she was eight, I had 7 dogs, three horses, four feral cats and three goats. 

She loved animals as much as I did.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I had 5 dogs when my daughter was born....18 months later I had her brother. Was it hard work? YES!! We all managed.

Carmspack Gus


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I have three grown kids and they have been, and still are, a joy. It was a lot of work, of course but they turned out great and I have always had a lot of animals (dogs, cats, horse, guinea pigs, pet mice, chickens) and time for these as well because it was my relaxation. The kids were part of their lives as well. 
Most people I know now are overwhelmed by even the toddlers because they don't parent them but try to be their friend, which takes up all their energy to the point that they can only handle one kid. If you don't turn yourself in a helicopter mom you'll be OK. I also do birth work (for humans) and you can PM me for more info.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> If you don't turn yourself in a helicopter mom you'll be OK.



If by helicopter mom you mean caring involved engaged parent. I 100% disagree. I wish every single kid out there had at least one helicopter parent. the world would be a much better place. 



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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

whats a helicopter mom


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> whats a helicopter mom



From Wikipedia "A helicopter parent (also called a cosseting parent or simply a cosseter) is a parent who pays extremely close attention to a child's or children's experiences and problems, particularly at educational institutions. Helicopter parents are so named because, like helicopters, they hover overhead."

In my experience it is a derogatory term used by some to put down those of us who were lucky enough to be able to stay at home and make our kids a priority. 

I find it highly offensive. 


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

As a teacher, there is a difference between a caring, involved parent with a healthy attachment to their child and a heliparent.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

I have never heard of that! In my town we have cougs they are old stay at homers that have faces of leather and can drink wine like water, usually jobless and divorced they drive nice cars on their husbands dimes and get alot of botox. 

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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

glowingtoadfly said:


> As a teacher, there is a difference between a caring, involved parent with a healthy attachment to their child and a heliparent.


That is what I meant ( I am a teacher too). A helicopter parent will prevent self sufficiency in their kids and doesn't trust the kids' own judgement and thus limiting their freedom in an perfectly scheduled life with parents cheering them on for every little thing they do. Children need to make their own mistakes without being neglected of course (disclaimer for the internet) to learn. It is tough to be a teacher from helicoptered kids.
The term is not meant to degrade people, more to describe this form of parenting.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Over here a helicopter parent is one who restricts normal freedoms on a child. ......like not allowing tree climbing or playing in dirt because of the parents fears of harm coming to the child.....it has nothing to do with stay at home mothers and everything to do with over attentive parents who won't allow kids to be kids.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I have never heard of that! In my town we have cougs they are old stay at homers that have faces of leather and can drink wine like water, usually jobless and divorced they drive nice cars on their husbands dimes and get alot of botox.
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Wow I've never heard that one... But we don't have many parents around here that can afford botox. 

This is something totally different and unless you work in and around education at a high-school to college level you probably won't hear it a lot. 



> As a teacher, there is a difference between a caring, involved parent with a healthy attachment to their child and a heliparent.


I'd be curious as to your definition of the difference. I've heard the same parent be called by one teacher, a great help and wonderful parent and had another teacher be ticked off and call that same parent an interfering helicopter mom. One person I know starts whistling the M*A*S*H theme whenever any parent shows up. 

I've never once heard it used nicely.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I agree it is a "put down".......nobody would like being described this way IMO.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'll bite. I work in higher ed, in IT at a college. We hire student workers every year. One time, a mom came to our front desk to turn in a job app for her son. Then she asked if they could just interview her in his place. That's a helicopter parent.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Yup.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

sparra said:


> Over here a helicopter parent is one who restricts normal freedoms on a child. ......like not allowing tree climbing or playing in dirt because of the parents fears of harm coming to the child.....it has nothing to do with stay at home mothers and everything to do with over attentive parents who won't allow kids to be kids.


Oooh okay I have seen this, I was at a park with my guy and there was a little girl that wanted to play and the parent yanked her away going on about bacteria and dangerous falls. 


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> That is what I meant ( I am a teacher too). A helicopter parent will prevent self sufficiency in their kids and doesn't trust the kids' own judgement and thus limiting their freedom in an perfectly scheduled life with parents cheering them on for every little thing they do. Children need to make their own mistakes without being neglected of course (disclaimer for the internet) to learn. It is tough to be a teacher from helicoptered kids.
> The term is not meant to degrade people, more to describe this form of parenting.


I would much rather, any day, take a class of helicoptered kids then one full of parents who don't care, who don't show up and who have never once been to to a parent/teacher conference.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> I'll bite. I work in higher ed, in IT at a college. We hire student workers every year. One time, a mom came to our front desk to turn in a job app for her son. Then she asked if they could just interview her in his place. That's a helicopter parent.


That is a psyco parent. Not all involved parents are psyco but they all get lumped under that same "helicopter" term.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think of "helicopter" parents mostly in terms of kids 16+, not so much germaphobes or parents that worry about every little thing with their toddler. It more refers to parents who can't cut the cord, so to speak, as their kids move on from high school to college and become a legal adult. They try to be involved in or control aspects of their kids' lives that a normal adult doesn't need to share or defer to a parent. Since I work for a college, I see it all the time, both the parents and the results :/

For example, we get parents that call us EVERY day and want to get help with their child's login information. Sorry we just can't do that, there is HIPAA and FERPA protected information that their "child" (an adult) has access to as a student of our college. Some parents think this is normal, that they would call us with their child sitting right there and ask why when we say we need to speak to their child if they want help accessing that sort of information. They don't think it's weird to want 24/7 access to their child's grades, health records, student financial account info, etc. To normal people that is weird. Adults deal with these things on their own, not ask their mom to call.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Oooh okay I have seen this, I was at a park with my guy and there was a little girl that wanted to play and the parent yanked her away going on about bacteria and dangerous falls.
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


See that's where this whole thing gets sticky. Everyone has a little bit different definition. My mom did that to me as a kid. She was a nurse. She was not however a helicopter parent in any way shape or form other than trying to keep me away from germs when I was very little. She gave up by the time I was around 10 or so. I was a little stinker.  Me I'd tell my kids to shake it off and rub some dirt in it when they fell. OTOH at a high school level to some extent I was a helicopter parent in that I made sure to keep control of the internet and cell phones and such. Its such an iffy definition and one that will set a parent off like none other if they hear it. I try really hard to not use it.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Well I never heard of that until today and frankly I thought a helicopter mom was someone who was fast moving and busy minded when I first read it. Lol

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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> For example, we get parents that call us EVERY day and want to get help with their child's login information. Sorry we just can't do that, there is HIPAA and FERPA protected information that their "child" (an adult) has access to as a student of our college. Some parents think this is normal, that they would call us with their child sitting right there and ask why when we say we need to speak to their child if they want help accessing that sort of information. They don't think it's weird to want 24/7 access to their child's grades, health records, student financial account info, etc. To normal people that is weird. Adults deal with these things on their own, not ask their mom to call.


and what about the high school students taking college classes? Those are the kids I work with most. Parents want and deserve to be involved at that age. Then there are the freshmen. Just coming out of high school. Those parents don't know what to expect they are just trying to work their way through the system. They should be ridiculed or made fun of for trying to help. Many of the kids are freshly graduated from highschool are only 17 and still not legal adults.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> I would much rather, any day, take a class of helicoptered kids then one full of parents who don't care, who don't show up and who have never once been to to a parent/teacher conference.


I am sure you know what I meant. It's not one or the other. There is happy medium: caring parents who....and the rest has already been explained.
This is how threads get taken out of context and heated discussions start.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Liesje said:


> Since I work for a college, I see it all the time, both the parents and the results :/
> 
> For example, we get parents that call us EVERY day and want to get help with their child's login information. Sorry we just can't do that, there is HIPAA and FERPA protected information that their "child" (an adult) has access to as a student of our college. Some parents think this is normal, that they would call us with their child sitting right there and ask why when we say we need to speak to their child if they want help accessing that sort of information. They don't think it's weird to want 24/7 access to their child's grades, health records, student financial account info, etc. To normal people that is weird. Adults deal with these things on their own, not ask their mom to call.


Now I disagree with this to an extent. My child can't get financial aid without me and my name is on the loans, so if I have questions I expect an answer. The same goes for health records to an extent, I'm paying a good amount of money to insure my child and the insurance is in my name, so I expect answers. Yes they are adults but I have had my son ask me questions about the financial aid that I couldn't answer and he was way overloaded with school finals, fraternity stuff and a job so he came to me and it couldn't help. Same thing happened when he was studying abroad. Don't even get me started on how they disperse the money to my son that is from a loan with my name on it and was checked off to go to our home....


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

llombardo said:


> Now I disagree with this to an extent. My child can't get financial aid without me and my name is on the loans, so if I have questions I expect an answer. The same goes for health records to an extent, I'm paying a good amount of money to insure my child and the insurance is in my name, so I expect answers. Yes they are adults but I have had my son ask me questions about the financial aid that I couldn't answer and he was way overloaded with school finals, fraternity stuff and a job so he came to me and it couldn't help. Same thing happened when he was studying abroad. Don't even get me started on how they disperse the money to my son that is from a loan with my name on it and was checked off to go to our home....


I don't call that helicoptering. You supported him well as a mom. It would be different if you had gone to his professor and demanding a higher grade for your student kid because he failed in managing his time efficiently.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

llombardo said:


> Now I disagree with this to an extent. My child can't get financial aid without me and my name is on the loans, so if I have questions I expect an answer. The same goes for health records to an extent, I'm paying a good amount of money to insure my child and the insurance is in my name, so I expect answers. Yes they are adults but I have had my son ask me questions about the financial aid that I couldn't answer and he was way overloaded with school finals, fraternity stuff and a job so he came to me and it couldn't help. Same thing happened when he was studying abroad. Don't even get me started on how they disperse the money to my son that is from a loan with my name on it and was checked off to go to our home....


This :thumbup: I totally see it from both sides working for the college but also having two college kids myself and it just sets me off to hear parents with legitimate concerns called helicopter parents. 

Zeeva I'm sorry for derailing your thread. I hope this doesn't scare you off having kids.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

shepherdmom said:


> and what about the high school students taking college classes? Those are the kids I work with most. Parents want and deserve to be involved at that age. Then there are the freshmen. Just coming out of high school. Those parents don't know what to expect they are just trying to work their way through the system. They should be ridiculed or made fun of for trying to help. Many of the kids are freshly graduated from highschool are only 17 and still not legal adults.


I'm a year younger than everyone in my class and my mom did not follow me around during college or make calls on my behalf. 

The information is privileged and protected by federal laws whether they like it or not.

They have parent presentations, heck parent sleepovers and weekends for parents and family.

Dually enrolled students (high school students) are setup differently and are easy to identify.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

shepherdmom, calling and demanding that someone give you someone else's password is not a "legitimate concern". It's just not allowed and would get someone like me fired. If a child wants to share that information, we cannot stop them, but in the end it's the STUDENT that is our customer and it's their information and records that we are legally obligated to protect. They can share their grades or health records with their parents if they choose to.

I'm sure the Financial Aid office will answer any questions about financial aid (I personally handled all of mine and took on about $100K in student dept which I was already paying off myself at age 17 so I can write a book about financial aid in this country).


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> This :thumbup: I totally see it from both sides working for the college but also having two college kids myself and it just sets me off to hear parents with legitimate concerns called helicopter parents.
> 
> Zeeva I'm sorry for derailing your thread. I hope this doesn't scare you off having kids.


Lol poor zeeva I can hear the tubes tying from here. 

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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Bwahaha


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> I am sure you know what I meant. It's not one or the other. There is happy medium: caring parents who....and the rest has already been explained.
> This is how threads get taken out of context and heated discussions start.


Yup.....


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> shepherdmom, calling and demanding that someone give you someone else's password is not a "legitimate concern". It's just not allowed and would get someone like me fired. If a child wants to share that information, we cannot stop them, but in the end it's the STUDENT that is our customer and it's their information and records that we are legally obligated to protect. They can share their grades or health records with their parents if they choose to.


I see it from your side, but I also see it from the parent side. The parent is trying to make a payment before 5 so their student doesn't get dropped from classes and the password gets screwed up. Its frustrating to a parent and it is a legitimate concern to that parent. That doesn't make them a helicopter parent it just makes them frustrated. 

and BTW Financial Aid does not answer questions to parents, they are also bound under Hippa and Ferpa.


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## hchorney1 (Mar 5, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> LOL!
> 
> Titles/certifications: I've a Masters and husband is a physician.
> 
> ...


Bwahaha!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

shepherdmom said:


> I see it from your side, but I also see it from the parent side. The parent is trying to make a payment before 5 so their student doesn't get dropped from classes and the password gets screwed up. Its frustrating to a parent and it is a legitimate concern to that parent. That doesn't make them a helicopter parent it just makes them frustrated.
> 
> and BTW Financial Aid does not answer questions to parents, they are also bound under Hippa and Ferpa.


At our school, parents can make online payments 24/7 through a third party vendor. If an account is not paid, there may be a financial hold (kid cannot charge books, food, etc to a misc. account, must pay up front) but you basically have to commit a crime to get dropped from a class. My husband is working on his masters and takes 3 classes a year (1 at a time, year round) and we make ONE tuition payment a year, in September, despite being billed 3x per semester. Trust me the way everything is setup here you have to be completely ignorant or procrastinate for months before there is any real consequence to not paying on time, not signing a form, etc.

I see it from the side of someone that never had a parent reminding me to make payments on time let alone paying 1 cent for anything, so I know it can be done and it's not that difficult, even for a 16 or 17 year old. There are oodles of help and services available for students here, all free, if they just put forth the effort to use them and keep track of time management.


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Your definition of psycho parent is mine of a heliparent. And that's all I'm going to say. I could tell a few stories that would burn your ears.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

sparra said:


> Over here a helicopter parent is one who restricts normal freedoms on a child. ......like not allowing tree climbing or playing in dirt because of the parents fears of harm coming to the child.....it has nothing to do with stay at home mothers and everything to do with over attentive parents who won't allow kids to be kids.


Pretty cool, you learn something new everyday! Guess I am not a helicopter parent


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Liesje said:


> At our school, parents can make online payments 24/7 through a third party vendor. If an account is not paid, there may be a financial hold (kid cannot charge books, food, etc to a misc. account, must pay up front) but you basically have to commit a crime to get dropped from a class. My husband is working on his masters and takes 3 classes a year (1 at a time, year round) and we make ONE tuition payment a year, in September, despite being billed 3x per semester. Trust me the way everything is setup here you have to be completely ignorant or procrastinate for months before there is any real consequence to not paying on time, not signing a form, etc.


It is completely different here. Each semester we have 3 drop dates, if you miss any payment you will be dropped and good luck getting back in and getting the class you need. Students can never charge books or food etc. its pay as you go.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

glowingtoadfly said:


> As a teacher, there is a difference between a caring, involved parent with a healthy attachment to their child and a heliparent.


Yep. I am a teacher, too, and there is a world of difference between the two types of parents.
Sheilah


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

Raising children brings a depth to your life that you can never understand until you do it. I cannot explain it. Its pride and joy and love and fear and worry and hope all at the same time.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

robk said:


> Raising children brings a depth to your life that you can never understand until you do it. I cannot explain it. Its pride and joy and love and fear and worry and hope all at the same time.


It's like a roller coaster: ups and downs but so worth it.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Lol poor zeeva I can hear the tubes tying from here.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


)))))))))))))))))))))


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Zeeva, in response to the bringing a new child into the world... If you feel you do want to raise children one day but still have this argument, consider the idea of adoption. In my opinion (I am adopted and so are 4 of my siblings) you are then not bringing another life into the world but instead providing a better future for a child who may not have much of a future at all. Completely not telling you what to do, just offering another perspective


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Ellimaybel said:


> Zeeva, in response to the bringing a new child into the world... If you feel you do want to raise children one day but still have this argument, consider the idea of adoption. In my opinion (I am adopted and so are 4 of my siblings) you are then not bringing another life into the world but instead providing a better future for a child who may not have much of a future at all. Completely not telling you what to do, just offering another perspective


It's so expensive to adopt...I'd do it in a heartbeat...


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Foster mama?


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

glowingtoadfly said:


> Foster mama?


How could I watch children leave my life? Or come in and out of my life based on a whim of someone else's decisions? I'd be too selfish to let go of people that I actually love even if it might be for their good.

I'm not trying to be difficult. I do love kids very much. Maybe just not right now for me. 

It's selfish to not want to be alone when you're old; to make that a reason or THE only reason to have kids. 

Or to give in because of family pressure. My parents are getting old and need a 'reason' to live...this could be it.

The problem is I'm getting old too and the chances of having a baby with defects grows as both parents age, right...? So it feels like now or never and that pressure is what may put me over the fence. On which side, I dunno.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> It's so expensive to adopt...I'd do it in a heartbeat...


I feel like I'm trying to talk you into something, but I promise I'm not. Just trying to inform. I don't know what your state rules are but sometimes if you foster through the state and decide you want to adopt a child in your care that becomes available, it doesn't cost money. Of course, when my parents did that many years ago that was the case. I'm sure it's changed by now anyways.

I did get pregnant twice, lost the baby both times. The first time kind of sucked, but the second time hurt. I knew what was going on and I spent a week lying in bed only waking up to drink a beer and smoke a joint. That was a whole different time of my life. I only came out of it because a friend and coworker made me. He would have bashed in my window at that point to get me out of my apartment.

Both times, it was a blessing. Come to find out if I were to carry a baby to term (which is extremely unlikely) the baby would probably be born with birth defects. This is not hereditary or lifestyle, something I was exposed to in the army. 

So I truly understand where you are coming from right now. The fear of what could happen can be very daunting.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

Packen said:


> Pretty cool, you learn something new everyday! Guess I am not a helicopter parent


Great pictures......no helicopter there......as it should be


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> How could I watch children leave my life? Or come in and out of my life based on a whim of someone else's decisions? I'd be too selfish to let go of people that I actually love even if it might be for their good.
> 
> I'm not trying to be difficult. I do love kids very much. Maybe just not right now for me.
> 
> ...


Have kids because you want them more than anything in the world.
Have kids because you love life, think life is a miracle, and want to give someone else a chance to experience it.
Have kids because you have things to teach another person, and because you believe you and your husband would create a human who would bring good into the world.

Have kids because you want to give of yourself to a fragile, impressionable little being who looks up to you for guidance, morals, how to behave, how to live, how to perceive life, how to control yourself, and how to look at and treat others.

Have kids because you know that you can birth them, raise them, nurture them, teach them, and love them enough to set them free into the world one day to be on their own, and be okay with them leaving and even going far away to have a life apart from you. Know that you gave them the resources, tools, character education to make it and be a decent an upstanding human being.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> How could I watch children leave my life? Or come in and out of my life based on a whim of someone else's decisions? I'd be too selfish to let go of people that I actually love even if it might be for their good.
> 
> I'm not trying to be difficult. I do love kids very much. Maybe just not right now for me.
> 
> ...



If it's meant to be it will be.

Too old?? Lol my moms good friend, just had a healthy baby girl at 49 (not that I'd recommend waiting that long, her parents will be 70ish when she graduates high school, and it's not easy to keep up with a 4 year old when you're in your 50's)... But just sayin' ya never know what you can truely handle until you have no other choice!



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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> If it's meant to be it will be.
> But just sayin' ya never know what you can truely handle until you have no other choice!
> 
> 
> ...


Zeeva is wanting to have a choice and trying to make the most important decision she will ever make.

That is the point of this thread.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> Have kids because you want them more than anything in the world.
> Have kids because you love life, think life is a miracle, and want to give someone else a chance to experience it.
> Have kids because you have things to teach another person, and because you believe you and your husband would create a human who would bring good into the world.
> 
> ...


This ^^ :thumbup: I don't often agree with Sunflowers but I have to agree with this 100%. 



> Too old?? Lol my moms good friend, just had a healthy baby girl at 49 (not that I'd recommend waiting that long, her parents will be 70ish when she graduates high school, and it's not easy to keep up with a 4 year old when you're in your 50's)... But just sayin' ya never know what you can truely handle until you have no other choice!


Oh no no no.... Please don't do this. As a only child of way older parents (my dad was 53 when I was born) I can tell you it was miserable. I can't tell you how many times I was told oh its nice you brought your grandparents. It's lonely. You don't get to do the fun things your friends do like camping and hiking etc. Even places like Disneyland you don't get to be a child. You have to wait patiently while your parents rest up between rides. You don't get to be spoiled by grandparents because they are not around anymore. You do get to spend a lot of time in doctors offices. Then you lose them way to young and you are on your own in dealing with it. No no no.... Please don't do this to a kid. It is really not fair to them. If you chose to have them, have them, do it at an age where you can really enjoy them.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Shepherdmom, it was interesting to read a perspective of a child to older parents


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

lalachka said:


> Shepherdmom, it was interesting to read a perspective of a child to older parents


I'm glad. I thought about not saying anything but I really feel that if you are older and thinking about having kids, you should consider how it will impact them. I know medical science has come a long way and people are able to have kids older and older.... But I don't necessarily think its a good thing.


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

shepherdmom said:


> This ^^ :thumbup: I don't often agree with Sunflowers but I have to agree with this 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was only kidding. It's just proof you do have time. And I think 40 is def different than 50...and we all joke about how they will be in wheelchairs at her high school graduation but it's a real possibility and honestly not very funny. Her one benefit is that this persons daughter had a baby 4 months prior (so aunt and niece are very close in age). The girls see each other daily, so she won't grow up as a singleton. 



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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> This ^^ :thumbup: I don't often agree with Sunflowers but I have to agree with this 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no no no.... Please don't do this. As a only child of way older parents (my dad was 53 when I was born) I can tell you it was miserable. I can't tell you how many times I was told oh its nice you brought your grandparents. It's lonely. You don't get to do the fun things your friends do like camping and hiking etc. Even places like Disneyland you don't get to be a child. You have to wait patiently while your parents rest up between rides. You don't get to be spoiled by grandparents because they are not around anymore. You do get to spend a lot of time in doctors offices. Then you lose them way to young and you are on your own in dealing with it. No no no.... Please don't do this to a kid. It is really not fair to them. If you chose to have them , have them, do it at an age where you can really enjoy them.


What are counting as too old to enjoy your kids? Different people have differing levels of health, I don't think you can say only age should be a limiting factor. My own father is 78 and still flys airplanes, and that requires having an aviation medical. I also know someone who dropped dead of a heart attack at 39, leaving a toddler. I also know several people who had kids in their early 20s but did not have the mental maturity nor financial resources to care for their children.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Ellimaybel said:


> *Why not just let nature take over? * If it's meant to be, it will happen.


I strongly disagree with this. Consider that approximately 10% of couples have fertility issues - that means 90% do not. That 90% WILL conceive unless they're actively using BC to prevent pregnancy. Unless you're absolutely certain you want kids, stopping BC to let nature takes its course means more than likely, you'll get pregnant. As I've always said, if you're not actively trying NOT to get pregnant you're trying TO get pregnant, even if that's not how you think of it. Barring known fertility issues, of course.

If you do know you want kids but are just not sure this is the right time, or you're concerned about your pets, that's different. IMO, having children is too important a decision to leave to chance.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I strongly disagree with this. Consider that approximately 10% of couples have fertility issues - that means 90% do not. That 90% WILL conceive unless they're actively using BC to prevent pregnancy. Unless you're absolutely certain you want kids, stopping BC to let nature takes its course means more than likely, you'll get pregnant. As I've always said, if you're not actively trying NOT to get pregnant you're trying TO get pregnant, even if that's not how you think of it. Barring known fertility issues, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do know you want kids but are just not sure this is the right time, or you're concerned about your pets, that's different. IMO, having children is too important a decision to leave to chance.



My daughter wasn't planned, I was 19. I'm very glad I kept her. If I didn't I wouldn't make the decision. It's not an easy one to make. Not for me. People are diff


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> Have kids because you want them more than anything in the world.
> Have kids because you love life, think life is a miracle, and want to give someone else a chance to experience it.
> Have kids because you have things to teach another person, and because you believe you and your husband would create a human who would bring good into the world.
> 
> ...


This is sweet.

Ideally everyone would feel like this before they decided to have kids.

Did you?

I'm preparing myself to consider it. Started prenatals and am attempting to come off of all my meds. It's been a month since I've been trying to taper off of everything with the help of my psychiatrist. The withdrawal in my mind is so excruciating that I end up double dosing. It's disheartening and discouraging...

Is this how it feels to quit smoking...?


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Oh! Sending much support. I can't even imagine life without meds.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> This is sweet.
> 
> Ideally everyone would feel like this before they decided to have kids.
> 
> ...


Yes, I did. 
Both of us did, that is why I wrote it.

But for the longest time, I did not, so we waited.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I am not a fan of 2 legged children. They just are not for me.

I love my dogs, to me they are my children. I feed them, I buy them toys, beds, treats, I care for them when they are sick, I keep them safe, I love them and I spend all of my time with them. I don't want that to ever change. I have seen people that love their animals, get rid of them when they have kids or they start to neglect their animals even though they don't mean to. They no longer take their dogs for car rides or take them to Grandma's house or spend all of their time with them, the dog ends up fat from lack of exercise and the owner feels bad so they feed them more treats. That makes me so incredibly sad. Sinister is my #1 priority, he comes before anything else and the other animals come 2nd. I don't even want to imagine what life would be like for Sin if I end up having a child. I would try my absolute best to keep his and my other pets lives the same as they are now.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I also saw my sisters get pregnant at very early ages and I remember the disappointment from my parents and the struggles my one sister went through and I don't think I can handle it even as an adult.

My oldest sister got pregnant at 14 but died shortly before her 15th birthday from a pulmonary embolisim, they could not save the baby.

My other sister got pregnant at 17. 

I am 26 and still without kids. 

I am a big worry wart over my dogs, kids would only send me into panic mode and add way too much stress to my already stressful life. Also, I can't imagine the pain of losing a child, my mom is still grieving, in pain and heartbroken 21 years later after the death of my sister. I wouldn't be able to recover over something like that.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

My husband and I will not have children. We would not make great parents (and he would make an especially terrible father, not going to lie), and the substance abuse/mental health issues that run in his family are not something he wants to pass on. I have never, ever in my life felt the urge that women so frequently describe. It's not that I want to avoid the responsibility, or am too selfish, or anything like that- it's just not something that I feel like I need to do. 

When we found out a pregnancy could kill me (and at the very least would cause serious problems), we figured maybe all this time of not feeling the "biological clock" was probably my body's way of telling me it wasn't going to happen for us. Or something like that.

My brother and his wife had kids for all the wrong reasons. She always wanted to be a mother- had no career goals beyond that (and I do not at ALL say that in a derogatory way). My brother wasn't ready, but she kept insisting...so that was the first thing they did when they got married, and they weren't ready financially, personally, or in terms of their relationship. It has caused major, major problems in their relationship (the baby is almost two now) and think that having ANOTHER one will fix everything.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

asja said:


> What are counting as too old to enjoy your kids? Different people have differing levels of health, I don't think you can say only age should be a limiting factor. My own father is 78 and still flys airplanes, and that requires having an aviation medical. I also know someone who dropped dead of a heart attack at 39, leaving a toddler. I also know several people who had kids in their early 20s but did not have the mental maturity nor financial resources to care for their children.


Great your dad is 78 now... How old was he when you were growing up? My parents were in their 70's when I was graduating high school. I don't care what kind of shape a 70 year old is in (my dad was in great health and lived to 86) is still to old to have kids. When my friends were out there camping, going to malls, and generally having a good time with their families.. I was sitting at home reading a book. I had to be good, I had to be quiet. A family vacation was to take a drive up the coast and stare at the ocean or drive to the grand canyon and stare at the scenery. I was never allowed out of the car to go play in the water or hike in the canyon. I got to look at it. Gee what fun for a kid. 

I personally would not have kids over 35. I think its too old. I had my kids young and then I got fixed. 

Re the financially ready we probably weren't but we made do. First we bought a tent and later a travel trailer. My kids got to explore one end of Arizona to the other. We hiked the pained desert/petrified forest... We walked down the several hundred steps to the bottom of walnut canyon. We visited Toombstone and went through all the museums. We walked through Kartcherner cavern. We camped at least once a month in the white mountains, the mugollon rim, etc. The dogs loved it. We spent Thanksgiving one year camping outside of tuscon in a place with a natural hot spring. Then as we got more financially secure we spent a week at Pismo beach, we went to Sequoia and rode horses through Zion and visited Disneyland. We climbed through Carlsbad and then later that evening we watched the bats fly. There wasn't a lot of money but being young and healthy we didn't need it. There was food on the table and a roof over our heads and each other. 

We were there for every swim meet, every softball game every band concert. and the best part of it all is now when my kids have kids (if they do) I'm young enough to enjoy being a grandma too. We are gonna be those grandparents who take the kids to Disneyland for a week to give the parents a break.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I strongly disagree with this. Consider that approximately 10% of couples have fertility issues - that means 90% do not. That 90% WILL conceive unless they're actively using BC to prevent pregnancy. Unless you're absolutely certain you want kids, stopping BC to let nature takes its course means more than likely, you'll get pregnant. As I've always said, if you're not actively trying NOT to get pregnant you're trying TO get pregnant, even if that's not how you think of it. Barring known fertility issues, of course.
> 
> If you do know you want kids but are just not sure this is the right time, or you're concerned about your pets, that's different. IMO, having children is too important a decision to leave to chance.


While that is true.. in 2 perfectly fertle and capable partners, at the perfect time and all the ducks lined up in a row, there is still only a 20% chance that they wil concieve. 

I also believe if you are leaving it to chance.. then you have already made up your mind and want a child, or you wouldn't be willing to risk the possibility.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> I personally would not have kids over 35. I think its too old. I had my kids young and then I got fixed.


I always said if I were to have children, I would have them before 30, after 30, no children.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I always said if I were to have children, I would have them before 30, after 30, no children.


:thumbup:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> :thumbup:


Only 4 more years to go, lol, I can do this! :laugh:


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

This was a cool thread to read...


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

...was that a real crocodile ...so typically Texas


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

LaRen616 said:


> I always said if I were to have children, I would have them before 30, after 30, no children.


If I could do it over again, I would not have had any BEFORE 30.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Im good with 1 plus 2 that are not mine.

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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

You said the magic words...that you are vehemently against it. Not that you're unsure or afraid, but VEHEMENTLY against it. Exactly how I felt. Stayed true to myself, never let anyone talk (or shame), me into it. And oh did they try, be ready for that and be strong and true to yourself in the face of it. I am now older than dirt, lolol...and...I. Have. Never. Not. Even. Once. Been. Sorry. I knew from the time I was given a baby doll (and the whole layette shebang, tiny baby bottles, everything) for Christmas when I was six years old...I was SO disappointed...I wanted a ballerina doll, or a bride doll, or another german shepherd puppy. Now when I hear all my friends, young and old it seems, talking about their children, a large majority of what I hear is negative. Particularly with the world so chaotic and dangerous, and especially with the ever worsening socioeconomic class division in our country, now I find it a HUGE relief that I only have to worry about these things in my lifetime. I do know people who are born mothers and caretakers...let those people do it. People like us VEHEMENTLY don't want to. I expect your dream had more to do with things you've been told about motherhood. Oh my GOD, I even had someone tell me..."oh, just go ahead and have one, you'll love it no matter what." Ah, no, spent the first nine years of my career working (administrative capacity) in child psychiatry, and learned first hand that that is not true. Also learned that we could likely empty our prison system in a decade, if no more unwanted children were brought into the world. And...DO NOT take any chances or have any accidents. If your partner in life wants children, you are in a no win situation.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

katieliz said:


> You said the magic words...that you are vehemently against it. Not that you're unsure or afraid, but VEHEMENTLY against it. Exactly how I felt. Stayed true to myself, never let anyone talk (or shame), me into it. And oh did they try, be ready for that and be strong and true to yourself in the face of it. I am now older than dirt, lolol...and...I. Have. Never. Not. Even. Once. Been. Sorry. I knew from the time I was given a baby doll (and the whole layette shebang, tiny baby bottles, everything) for Christmas when I was six years old...I was SO disappointed...I wanted a ballerina doll, or a bride doll, or another german shepherd puppy. Now when I hear all my friends, young and old it seems, talking about their children, a large majority of what I hear is negative. Particularly with the world so chaotic and dangerous, and especially with the ever worsening socioeconomic class division in our country, now I find it a HUGE relief that I only have to worry about these things in my lifetime. I do know people who are born mothers and caretakers...let those people do it. People like us VEHEMENTLY don't want to. I expect your dream had more to do with things you've been told about motherhood. Oh my GOD, I even had someone tell me..."oh, just go ahead and have one, you'll love it no matter what." Ah, no, spent the first nine years of my career working (administrative capacity) in child psychiatry, and learned first hand that that is not true. Also learned that we could likely empty our prison system in a decade, if no more unwanted children were brought into the world. And...DO NOT take any chances or have any accidents. If your partner in life wants children, you are in a no win situation.


I love this, thank you. 

Family pressure is what kills me. I hate taking the opportunity for my parents to be grandparents away especially because they want/need it...

Don't know if you ever felt that pressure or guilt? For me, it's probably THE most important and only thing that drives me to second guess my decision. Parents have done a lot for me...don't they deserve it...?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> I love this, thank you.
> 
> Family pressure is what kills me. I hate taking the opportunity for my parents to be grandparents away especially because they want/need it...
> 
> Don't know if you ever felt that pressure or guilt? For me, it's probably THE most important and only thing that drives me to second guess my decision. Parents have done a lot for me...don't they deserve it...?


I totally understand this mentality... but in making one set of people happy, you're being unfair to two sets (you and your child). My husband was raised by a mother who didn't really want him. It's worse than having no parent at all.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> If I could do it over again, I would not have had any BEFORE 30.


I have heard this one actually more and more recently, a lot to do with being as ready as you can when bringing kids in the world, and more able to provide a better life for your children with the experience and hopefully more stable finances. I can get behind that. My mom had me at 27.. 5 more years would not have made a difference in her abilities.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Zeeva said:


> I love this, thank you.
> 
> Family pressure is what kills me. I hate taking the opportunity for my parents to be grandparents away especially because they want/need it...
> 
> Don't know if you ever felt that pressure or guilt? For me, it's probably THE most important and only thing that drives me to second guess my decision. Parents have done a lot for me...don't they deserve it...?


Have you had the serious talk about that with your parents?


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Zeeva, we are different in one important respect, i don't really like kids. At all. I like puppies, lolol...

I was an only child, born to a 42 year old mom married to my 27 year old dad (not a typo). I LOVED having an old mom and being an only child. She had almost unlimited time for me and the dogs, we were very close, she did not work outside the home. The young dad part gave me a particular fondness for good looking, charming men, lol, but things kinda went south in that department when (at age 13), dad left for a woman five years older. Than me.

My mom died when I was 36, and I simply do not know how I would have had the energy to care for her in her later years, if she'd been younger when I was born and I was having to do it now.

Everybody's story is different. But anytime anybody uses the word "vehemently" coupled with the words "don't want to"...well, their story should only go one way in my book.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Don't know if you ever felt that pressure or guilt? For me, it's probably THE most important and only thing that drives me to second guess my decision. Parents have done a lot for me...don't they deserve it...?


One of my daughters doesn't want kids. It is 100 percent her choice it is not my place to say she has to have them so I can be a grandma. That would be selfish of me. 



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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I think there's a lot more to consider to being a parent than whether it will interfere with animals. Like whether you are in a position where you feel mentally able to be a parent. Kids are a lot of work, even though they are 100 percent worth it. I know from your posts you have a lot of things you are dealing with right now, so maybe your feeling like this is not the right time.
Keep an open mind, Just don't close your self off to the option, you may feel different 5 years from now, you may not. But its your choice. My kids 25 and 21 and both say they don't want to have kids. It's their choice not mine as they will be the primary caretaker. Even though as a parent I would love to have grandkids(I personally love kids and wished I had had more) I'm okay with whatever decisions they make. Your parents would understand if your not ready to have kids.

I would much rather be a helicopter mom than one who was too busy with her own concerns to worry about her kids. There's worse things to be called in the world than a helicopter mom..lol


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Zeeva...My mother was different in that respect. She knew, I suppose, when she saw the reaction to the baby doll (I am telling you, it was my worst Christmas ever, and I can still, at age 67, remember it like it was yesterday), that having children was not gonna be something I was interested in doing. She always supported my life decisions, and had had an exciting and fulfilling life as an entertainer before she had me, so I never had to deal with a parent pressuring me to reproduce. She also used to say that the world was changing in a way that would give women more choices, and that having kids wouldn't be the "be all-end all" in every woman's life, in the future. She was WAY ahead of her time. When my father left it destroyed her. I took care of her essentially from when I was 13 years old until she died at age 79. She instilled in me a great sense of self esteem, and the circumstances gave me great self sufficiency. Having a young, handsome, charming dad gave me a whole other set of issues, however (I smile, shake my head, and say thank GOODNESS for great insurance and years of therapy, lolol). But that's another book.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

LoveEcho said:


> I have never, ever in my life felt the urge that women so frequently describe. It's not that I want to avoid the responsibility, or am too selfish, or anything like that- it's just not something that I feel like I need to do.


Me either. It wasn't even that I made a decision at some point that I definitely did not want kids, it was more that I just never felt like I _did_ want them. As time went on, that didn't change. I just feel like parenting is something you need to fully commit yourself to, and if you can't, for whatever reason or no particular reason at all, you probably shouldn't do it.



wyoung2153 said:


> I also believe if you are leaving it to chance.. then you have already made up your mind and want a child, or you wouldn't be willing to risk the possibility.


Agreed. Well, unless you're an idiot, or so young and naive that you didn't think things through that far. (General "you", not YOU. )


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Zeeva said:


> Family pressure is what kills me. I hate taking the opportunity for my parents to be grandparents away especially because they want/need it...
> 
> Don't know if you ever felt that pressure or guilt? For me, it's probably THE most important and only thing that drives me to second guess my decision. Parents have done a lot for me...don't they deserve it...?


Your parents wanted children, and they had them. You do not owe them grandchildren, no matter how much they want them. Your children, if you have them, will be your responsibility - yours and your husband's, not your parents, and it's not fair of them to pressure you into doing something you do not want to do. 

Having kids to please your parents and pay them back for all they've done for you isn't the _stupidest_ reason to procreate, but it's not a GOOD reason either!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

lacking the mom gene here too. have never wanted the responsibility and am way, way too selfish...lolol...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I don't think not wanting kids has the slightest thing to do with selfishness. :shrug:


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I don't think not wanting kids has the slightest thing to do with selfishness. :shrug:


Yet oddly enough, the people who criticize us for NOT wanting kids usually say it's because we're selfish. Yes, not wanting to bring an unwanted child into the world is totally selfish...


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

LoveEcho said:


> Yet oddly enough, the people who criticize us for NOT wanting kids usually say it's because we're selfish. Yes, not wanting to bring an unwanted child into the world is totally selfish...


:thumbup:


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

When I was little I didn't play with barbies, I played with The Littlest Pet Shop, Care Bears and My Little Pony. I always had at least 10 stuffed animals that I slept with every night. No dolls. 

I have said that I didn't want any kids since I was 11 or 12 and people used to tell me that I would change my mind back then and they still tell me that now. NOPE.

I told my mom that she won't be getting any grandbabies from me and she said she is perfectly fine having granddogs and she calls them that when she talks about them to her customers, friends and coworkers. LOL.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

LoveEcho said:


> Yet oddly enough, the people who criticize us for NOT wanting kids usually say it's because we're selfish. Yes, not wanting to bring an unwanted child into the world is totally selfish...


Yeah, fulfilling your desire _not_ to have children is totally selfish and yet fulfilling your desire _to_ have children is somehow _un_selfish??? I've never understood that logic!


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> When I was little I didn't play with barbies, I played with The Littlest Pet Shop, Care Bears and My Little Pony. I always had at least 10 stuffed animals that I slept with every night. No dolls.
> 
> I have said that I didn't want any kids since I was 11 or 12 and people used to tell me that I would change my mind back then and they still tell me that now. NOPE.
> 
> I told my mom that she won't be getting any grandbabies from me and she said she is perfectly fine having granddogs and she calls them that when she talks about them to her customers, friends and coworkers. LOL.


I can't STAND the "you'll change your mind" argument... there's such an implication of immaturity with that sentence. It's not something that I feel because I'm immature, just the opposite... I'm mature enough and know myself well enough to know that it isn't for me... rather than being like so many women who have kids because "they're supposed to" or whatever, and deep down regret it (and that happens more than people think).


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

Jax08 said:


> If I could do it over again, I would not have had any BEFORE 30.



I like being an older Mom, not so much when I showed a picture of my daughter to my boss's Mom and she asked if that was my granddaughter... I wasn't ready until I was older. However choosing not to have children is not a selfish thing - at all. 
Age of bearing children has advantages and disadvantages - like going to bed when your child goes to bed, I appreciate that LOL I was able to stay home three years and I took a contract I didn't like for three months, but it opened the door to three jobs I love. It didn't adversely affect my career, I love doing the stuff my daughter loves and I feel like she keeps me younger.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I had my two when I was 32 and 35. I wish I'd had them when I was a bit younger ....I never wanted kids though when I was in my 20's! 
I don't think anyone has to justify why they choose to NOT be a parent. I wish people would be more discerning and controlled in that choice, instead of having kids that don't get the nurturing and discipline they need to grow up to be self supporting adults. And even then it may not be enough!


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm old, I doubt I have any viable eggs left, I never had a child, and I've never regretted it. I always knew I didn't want children, so there wasn't a bit of uncertainty there. I did figure that, down the road, if I wanted to raise a child badly enough, then I'd adopt one. Ok, I didn't know how hard adoptions are, lol, but that was my answer to all those people who seemed to know me better than I know myself. Geez, it's unbelievable how many people told me I'd change my mind, or regret my decision. Ha! Where are they now? I have friends whose children won't speak to them, who are only interested in visiting when they want money - or drop by to use them as babysitters...yuck.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Great your dad is 78 now... How old was he when you were growing up? My parents were in their 70's when I was graduating high school. I don't care what kind of shape a 70 year old is in (my dad was in great health and lived to 86) is still to old to have kids. When my friends were out there camping, going to malls, and generally having a good time with their families.. I was sitting at home reading a book. I had to be good, I had to be quiet. A family vacation was to take a drive up the coast and stare at the ocean or drive to the grand canyon and stare at the scenery. I was never allowed out of the car to go play in the water or hike in the canyon. I got to look at it. Gee what fun for a kid.
> 
> I personally would not have kids over 35. I think its too old. I had my kids young and then I got fixed.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear you think your childhood sucked, but would you rather have not been born? 

After years of infertility, I finally got my daughter when I was 40. . I have all the time in the world to spend with her and do things, and am financially comfortable. We just came back from several weeks in Germany visiting family, her third trip to Europe before the age of 3. We do plenty with her.


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

My friend was adopted by a 48 year old. They went hiking, camping, swimming, and they ran a marathon together when she was in high school. Her mother is now 85 and ran a 5K last week and swims the mile length of the pond she lives on every morning before watching her 3 year old granddaughter. It so, so depends on the person and their lifestyle and personality... not their necessarily their age. But, I also think for her mother, children were never an afterthought- she had always wanted them, and it just never happened biologically (and this was before fertility treatments were as widely used and accessible as they are now).


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

asja said:


> Sorry to hear you think your childhood sucked, but would you rather have not been born?
> 
> After years of infertility, I finally got my daughter when I was 40. . I have all the time in the world to spend with her and do things, and am financially comfortable. We just came back from several weeks in Germany visiting family, her third trip to Europe before the age of 3. We do plenty with her.



Yes there were times growing up when I would rather not have been born! 

Hopefully your daughter doesn't feel the same some day. Also hopefully she will never face some of the health problems that I have today due to having OLD parents.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

I am so sick of hearing people complain about their parents. Parents do the best they can. My life, my choice.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I can, will and do complain about my dad. He's an alcoholic, he won't get help and he can't get his crap together. I barely have a relationship with him because I can't talk to him like a normal person because he's inappropriate, creepy and almost always drunk. When my sister and I went to his house on Father's Day he was already drunk at 1pm. Thank goodness we didn't bring his little grandkids or my dogs to his house.

Sometimes parents really do suck and they don't try to be good parents or they simply do not care.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

I forgot to mention that you clearly missed my comment "years of infertility". I wish I could have had a child ten years ago, but I couldn't. So your comment that now I am too old is extremely hurtful.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> I can, will and do complain about my dad. He's an alcoholic, he won't get help and he can't get his crap together. I barely have a relationship with him because I can't talk to him like a normal person because he's inappropriate, creepy and almost always drunk. When my sister and I went to his house on Father's Day he was already drunk at 1pm. Thank goodness we didn't bring his little grandkids or my dogs to his house.
> 
> Sometimes parents really do suck and they don't try to be good parents or they simply do not care.


And yet somehow people like this have children, while those who desperately want them cannot.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

asja said:


> And yet somehow people like this have children, while those who desperately want them cannot.


That's because it takes 2 to tango. 

My mom wanted kids and my dad wanted to make my mom happy. My mom is an amazing mother, my best friend and the person that I love more than anything in this world. I don't need a dad, I have a mom. :wub:


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

asja said:


> And yet somehow people like this have children, while those who desperately want them cannot.


This is always the saddest thing to think about.

I know a guy who's wife badly wanted children. They went through round after round of fertility treatment and almost gave up. Then she ended up getting pregnant with twins. He dropped a bombshell on her- he didn't actually want kids, he was just going through the motions (because he's a pretty terrible person) and he didn't think the IVF would actually work. That poor woman and those poor babies will deal with that for the rest of their lives. 

My husband's father sounds a lot like your dad, Lauren. He's an alcoholic and a heroin and crack addict. He was pretty absent during his childhood and showed up again when he was about 25 or so. His mother was... well... not the nicest person in the world. She was extremely selfish and was never, ever home- she'd go out with one of her boyfriends after work and come back at 2-3 AM (if at all). She rented rooms in their house out to sketchy tenants and one of them started giving my husband booze when he was a child. He's been an alcoholic since he was 15 (not exaggerating) and his mother didn't notice or care. When we met, he had never had a Christmas tree... neither parent was present for his high school or boot camp graduation, his deployments...nothing. He is such a kind, strong man but has major, major attachment issues from being so blatantly unwanted as a child. He wasn't a "mistake" per se, he was a child who was born because "people get married and have kids." 

My mother always wanted four kids. She could only have two- when she was pregnant with me she developed cervical cancer and ended up needing a hysterectomy when I was born. Now she has my husband (and my brother's wife)- she has her four kids, and she mothers the heck out of every one of us. My husband has battled with addiction and mental health issues, and my mom has been his biggest cheerleader every step of the way. It's funny how the universe can sort of right itself like that. Asja, I'm so glad you were finally able to have your daughter.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

asja said:


> My life, my choice.


No its not just your life, its the life of your kid too. 

Whatever you made your bed. You and your kid are gonna have to live with it and hey these days a lot of old people are having kids so at least your kid won't stand out as the only one bringing grandama and grandpa to parents day. 

BTW I wasn't attacking you or anyone else, just sharing my own story and if don't want to hear it from the kids perspective then don't read it.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

***************** moderator stepping in.................... original posting deleted entirely**********************

ASJA, you are taking this too personally and so clearly the one rule breaking with cursing, personal attacks and inciting others to reply. 

We have rules on the board and *everyone* needs to follow them. If you need to do a Moderator Notification, then do so and then let us deal with the situation rather then stirring the pot and responding in a way to escalate the situation.

If this thread doesn't calm down, it will just be closed/deleted.

MaggieRoseLee


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

asja said:


> ************ Original post deleted ************ .


usually with teen pregnancies and what nowtit is the older, established parental unit that steps up to take on the responsibility of their childs oops. There are plenty of teens that grow up real fast and take responsibility but alot of the time they are back with older mom and dad hoping they step up for them.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

Asja, it's a very personal decision. Personal, meaning nobody else's business. FWIW, the cut-off age for IVF is over 50, so it's quite possible that you could become a grandparent while someone else your age is giving birth, lol.


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## CoraGirl (Jun 15, 2014)

I highly doubt that I will ever have kids. My bf and I have talked about it and have decided that it's a no go for us. We came from completely different lifestyles... I had a wonderful family with great examples of how a healthy relationship should... he came from a family with addiction problems and lots of personal problems. I honestly could probably go either way on having kids, but I lean more towards not having them bc my bf does not want them, in part bc of how his childhood was. 

I am almost 25 and my bf is 31 so I honestly don't think we're going to change our mind. But he has heard the "oh you'll change your mind" and "it'll be different when their yours" arguement. But our 2 cats and and shepherd test his patience enough :crazy: .. I don't think adding a kid to mix would be too good. But his patience has gotten better over the years  He teaches me to slow down and be more rational and I teach him to calm down and actually have emotions lol


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Asja - I am so sorry for all the grief you've gone through. I haven't read this thread to see what started this but find it unbelievable that a person would attack you based on your age of when you had your first child, especially under the conditions. But some people are determined to make it all about them and be obnoxious so just blow it off. While I have never had infertility issues, my sister miscarried 3x (after having 2 kids from a previous marriage) before finally carrying our new Miss to term. My older sister had a daughter at 42. My youngest sister was born when my mom was 38. My sister and my niece have no issue with "older" parents.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Asja, because of your circumstances you are taking this WAY too personal and you are also WAY outa line and bordering on breaking board rules if you have not already. If you continue, you'll cause the thread to be locked, and deprive us of what was a pretty cool discussion before you became so offended and insulting. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT YOU. Okay?


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> usually with teen pregnancies and what nowtit is the older, established parental unit that steps up to take on the responsibility of their childs oops. There are plenty of teens that grow up real fast and take responsibility but alot of the time they are back with older mom and dad hoping they step up for them.


YUP! I had a cousin who was a teen Mom and her parents raised the baby. But they aren't quite baking cookies, staying home kinda grandparents, one year they took her ziplining in Costa Rica, they have a very large, very beautiful cottage, she loves taking her friends - especially the ones whose parents just have trailers. There are seadoos, a small yacht... She has it better than her own mother!

When I was having an ultrasound during my pregnancy, the technician was also pregnant, so of course, the fact we were both "old" and pregnant was discussed, she said, the majority of Mom's she sees are either our age, or the really young. The fact of the matter is, unless you have a stable financial plan, children isn't necessarily a reality for most parents in their 20's. A mortgage, student loans, vehicle loans, you are in a hole, that it takes years to climb out of. That is unfair to bring a child into. Plus, a woman has to build a career. One she can go back to if she chooses. 

My Grandmother had her last child in her 40's - no IVF, just good ole farm lovin LOL... She was there for her son, her grandchildren and had a hand in babysitting and looking after her great-grandchildren. Age is a number and 90% of that number is in ones own mind. 

It's sad this thread took this turn. However, this "Grandma" will rock her parent teacher days in sky-high Louis's, real diamonds in her daily jewellery collection and a suit that costs more than her teacher's car and if my kid complains I'm too old, I'll show her the college fund - because Mama had 20 years before she was even born to save money. We recently had the distinct pleasure of telling dh's son, my step-son, pick whatever school you want, the money is there.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My sister had her first in her teens and her last of 4 in her late 30's...talk about generational gap! Yet she was 11 yrs younger than me. 
My dad had my sister when he was almost 50(different wife). 
Family dynamics can be whatever, age, parents gender should not be so scrutinized, or the lack of having children.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Ozzymama is my hero for this evening. 

My son has no relationship with his father, not my choice. My father who I was never close taught my son the dude things in life and totally stepped up to be grandpa dad, my current SO is great also. I really lucked out.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

asja said:


> I forgot to mention that you clearly missed my comment "years of infertility". I wish I could have had a child ten years ago, but I couldn't. So your comment that now I am too old is extremely hurtful.


You aren't too old.......I had my first at 31.....second at 35 and we are now wanting number 3 God willing........ and I am 37 .......
My parents were 40 when I was born .....I had a wonderful upbringing.
My parents were always fit and healthy......still are...now they are awesome grand parents.
I was having way too much fun in my 20s to have kids.......I am loving being a mum now.
My SIL just had her 10th at 40.......she is amazing.
Enjoy your little one.....she is a miracle


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> No its not just your life, its the life of your kid too.
> 
> Whatever you made your bed. You and your kid are gonna have to live with it and hey these days a lot of old people are having kids so at least your kid won't stand out as the only one bringing grandama and grandpa to parents day.
> 
> BTW I wasn't attacking you or anyone else, just sharing my own story and if don't want to hear it from the kids perspective then don't read it.


Yeah well you are only ONE kid........it's not doom and gloom for everyone of older parents.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> No its not just your life, its the life of your kid too.
> 
> Whatever you made your bed. You and your kid are gonna have to live with it and hey these days a lot of old people are having kids so at least your kid won't stand out as the only one bringing grandama and grandpa to parents day.
> 
> BTW I wasn't attacking you or anyone else, just sharing my own story and if don't want to hear it from the kids perspective then don't read it.


Dear moderators, I don't see why this insulting post is allowed to remain, while mine was deleted. This poster is personally calling me too old and a grandma to my kid. Yes she was attacking me. So I don't see why her insults are okay to you and mine are not.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

katieliz said:


> THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT YOU. Okay?


No.....shepherdmom already took that prize......


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

ozzymama said:


> YUP! I had a cousin who was a teen Mom and her parents raised the baby. But they aren't quite baking cookies, staying home kinda grandparents, one year they took her ziplining in Costa Rica, they have a very large, very beautiful cottage, she loves taking her friends - especially the ones whose parents just have trailers. There are seadoos, a small yacht... She has it better than her own mother!
> 
> When I was having an ultrasound during my pregnancy, the technician was also pregnant, so of course, the fact we were both "old" and pregnant was discussed, she said, the majority of Mom's she sees are either our age, or the really young. The fact of the matter is, unless you have a stable financial plan, children isn't necessarily a reality for most parents in their 20's. A mortgage, student loans, vehicle loans, you are in a hole, that it takes years to climb out of. That is unfair to bring a child into. Plus, a woman has to build a career. One she can go back to if she chooses.
> 
> ...


Thanks, yes we have money to pay for college, and I'd love my daughter to go to my private high school. Plus we go to Europe every year to visit my husband's family, and next year we are moving back for a year. So my daughter will have the benefit of both countries and languages.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

katieliz said:


> Asja, because of your circumstances you are taking this WAY too personal and you are also WAY outa line and bordering on breaking board rules if you have not already. If you continue, you'll cause the thread to be locked, and deprive us of what was a pretty cool discussion before you became so offended and insulting. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT YOU. Okay?


Why is it just me who you think is insulting? What about shepherdmom and her insulting posts?


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

shepherdmoms' posts were not directed personally at you (until you responded), they were relating her personal experience. your responses to her were directed explicitly to her. like, if she insulted you it was because your circumstances fit and made it so (insulting) to you...you responded directly to her.

i think. it's friday. let's call a truce, 'kay? interesting thread.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

shepmom...i do take exception to the statement "*the* kid's perspective" and think it should be "*a* kid's perspective". because the experiences are going to be as different as there are kids and parents. i'm one of those kids of an old mother and found it to be a great advantage. and i surely have no health issues which stem from my mom's age when she had me. i personally see lots of advantages and never once experienced a negative from being an only child, late in life baby. 

but, as i said earlier in the thread, having a much younger, handsome, very charming father brought with it a *whole* other set of issues, lol...


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

I shared a very personal story with Zeeva of growing up an only child with older parents. This is what happened to me. This is what it was like for me! It had nothing to do with you it was not about you. Someone, maybe you, asked me point blank what I thought was too old. I said that 35 was my own personal cut off. Again this is not about you but comes from my own experiences growing up. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but it is what it is.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

katieliz said:


> shepmom...i do take exception to the statement "*the* kid's perspective" and think it should be "*a* kid's perspective". because the experiences are going to be as different as there are kids and parents. i'm one of those kids of an old mother and found it to be a great advantage. and i surely have no health issues which stem from my mom's age when she had me. i personally see lots of advantages and never once experienced a negative from being an only child, late in life baby.
> 
> but, as i said earlier in the thread, having a much younger, handsome, very charming father brought with it a *whole* other set of issues, lol...


Ok I will go along with "a" kids perspective. I'd even go further and say it was *"my" *perspective as a kid.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

sparra said:


> No.....shepherdmom already took that prize......


Its always about me. :laugh: :groovy: cause I'm just cool like that.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

well you and me will vie for that prize, shepmom...i am unbelievably all about me, lolol...always have been, always will be. because my old mom was constantly telling me how i was *all that*. age has softened me a little, and made me a bit more aware that there are other people who matter in the world, lolol...


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Its always about me. :laugh: :groovy: cause I'm just cool like that.


I never doubted it......


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> I shared a very personal story with Zeeva of growing up an only child with older parents. This is what happened to me. This is what it was like for me! It had nothing to do with you it was not about you. Someone, maybe you, asked me point blank what I thought was too old. I said that 35 was my own personal cut off. Again this is not about you but comes from my own experiences growing up. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but it is what it is.


I really appreciate the perspective shepmom...thank you!

Everyone's perspective actually...


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

katieliz said:


> well you and me will vie for that prize, shepmom...i am unbelievably all about me, lolol...always have been, always will be. because my old mom was constantly telling me how i was *all that*. age has softened me a little, and made me a bit more aware that there are other people who matter in the world, lolol...


It's that only child syndrome  The world revolves around us. Its kind of like helicopter mom magnified.  Plus we grew up in a different world. Student Loans? We were sent to school only long enough to get our MRS degree.



> I really appreciate the perspective shepmom...thank you!


You're welcome. Sorry for hijacking the thread. It wasn't intentional.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

asja said:


> Thanks, yes we have money to pay for college, and I'd love my daughter to go to my private high school. Plus we go to Europe every year to visit my husband's family, and next year we are moving back for a year. So my daughter will have the benefit of both countries and languages.


You sound prepared.
And europe! Whaaa lol I wish! 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Heres my birds. 

My mom had me at 16. She is irresponsible and immature and lazy. I love her, but in terms of my upbringing, I learned what not to do from her. I spent the majority of my time at my grandparents house anyway, when we weren't all living under the same roof, which was the vast majority of my life growing up. 

My biological father is a loser who was not in my life until I contacted him because I needed answers, which I've still not gotten because he landed himself in prison for sexual assault on a minor. Yeah, real winner that one. 

My step dad was the only dad I knew growing up and much as I loved him, he was a pushover who allowed my mother to walk all over him. Both he and my mom are immature and irresponsible. I haven't spoken to my step dad more than 3 times since my mom divorced him two years ago. Not my doing. His. He knows I'm angry about a lot of things he and mom pulled while I was growing up but he's not mature enough to actually talk to me about them. 

Here's where it gets fun. I was 18 when my first baby brother was born. Until that point, I was an only child. Not something you want to hear when you're already stressing about how to pay for college because your parents credit history is so horrible nobody will give you a student loan. I married my boyfriend, now husband when I was 19. My second baby brother was born when I was 20. My daughter was born 6 months after my second baby brother was born. My baby sister was born when I was 22. My son was born 5 months after my baby sister was born. There is an 18 year gap between my first baby brother and I, a 20 year gap between my second baby brother and I and a 22 year gap between my baby sister and I. 

My children and my baby brothers and sister all fall VERY close in age. 

I do not like other peoples children. I just don't. They get on my nerves and I lack patience. I love my kids with all my heart but there's not a chance I'd have a 3rd child. 2 is my limit both physically and personally. I would move mountains for my kids. You don't have to like other peoples kids to love your own. There's no rule on it just like there's no rule saying you automatically have to have kids. 

You have kids because you wants kids. Not because someone pressured you into it. It's your body that has to go through everything that comes with being pregnant. It's likely you who has to be there the majority of the time. Mom's don't get time off. There's no vacations. We're on 24/7/365. 

Yes, I'm a selfish person because I demand my space and get downright mean if I'm not able to get it but my husband respects that I need a break and he'll take the kids to the park or send me out to do something on my own. I'm also selfless because my kids are my world and no matter how frustrated I am with not getting a break away from constant questions or the "mommy.mom mom mom" routine, I'm still there for hugs and cuddling on the couch watching a movie times. 

We've had animals since before we had kids and we have animals now. It's extra work but not impossible and you do develop a routine. It all depends on you.

My husband's parents were older when they had kids. He lost his mom right before he left for a deployment in 2012. She was in her mid 60s. He loves his parents to no end but he also doesn't agree with them being older when they had kids because a lot of the stuff they were able to do, they were able to do only because there was the option to take a break or take a nap. His dad is still alive and active but he is slowing down. I'm 27, my husband is 28. His dad is late 50s. 

There's always 2 sides to every coin. My parents were young, his parents were older. It all depends on YOU and what will work for you.


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