# She almost bit him



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Yesterday my daughter and family came over for awhile. This is rare because they are always so busy, but she needed to use my computer. 

While she was doing that, her DH and kids and I were on our way out to play with the dogs. Her DH was the 1st out the door, with the kids, and I was letting the dogs out of their crates. Zisso was fine-headed out with the rest of them. Nadi was the last to get out and I was right behind her headed to the door. She was trotting quickly and I honestly thought it was just to catch up to Z, but my SOL is slow and was in the doorway when I saw Nadi's head kind of tucked low-I kinda yelled to get her attention to stop her just as she started to grab my SOL's leg. She did not break skin, but I could see where she had gotten him. So we are back to square one I guess. I am devastated! This is so unacceptable and I had been working so hard to get her over this, but I rarely ever have company other than my friend John, so never know how she will be when others come here, until this. And they are going to be even more reluctant to come over if this continues too  I am just beside myself. Can't afford a trainer right now-praying for some kind of miracle here to get back on track financially so I can get her some help.


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

I dont know the story behind this one bite, but I wanted to extend my sympathies and I too hope that you can get a break here. ((hugs))


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I think there are some bright points right? That she didn't actually bite him and stopped when you told her to? So that's good!

Even without money, you can do daily obedience sessions, like 3x a day, 5-10 minutes each. Working on things that are listed in this forum in so many threads, and of course basics like sit, down, stay and working on heeling for short periods of time. That will help as will NILIF which I am sure you are doing. 

With a dog like this, who has a thing for moving legs, you have to be 100% aware, all the time. I am very careful with visitors and have dogs who cannot be uncrated, with some or all people who come here (good thing I am not social or have kids around). 

She may have to be leash walked from crate to door in situations like the above. She may have to be leashed in general when people are over. Since that's not often, it isn't going to offer great training opportunities, but that's kind of what it will be when people are over. Set her up to succeed at all times and she will! 

It will be okay, just remember that she's an animal and like all of us, can be a bit unpredictable at times - we just forget that because we are so good at controlling our impulses.  :rofl:


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Maybe you should only let one dog out at a time for a while. Dogs are sometimes funny about there being another pack member running around. 

I took Pip in for his bath and then went out and got Cujo, they did his nails. He walked around with me for two hours in the store with other dogs, etc. So when I picked Pip up, I still had Cujo with me. When I got Pippy, Cujo lunged at a Great Pyranese. I appologised. The dog turned Cujo. Every dog he saw, he was barking and lunging at, even the little Rottweiler puppy coming in. While I did not let him eat anyone, it was still embarrassing with people looking at me, like how could I bring such a beast out in public. The next time, Cujo was a solo act and a perfect angel. 

Just a thought about letting the dogs out, visitors, kids, all together.


----------



## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

Some dogs are MOUTHY!
My dog grabbed my brothers arms or legs (NOT ALLOWED TO)
once or twice. Kilo wasnt mad, just letting them know to move....
I dont know why he does taht. But whenever people are over or I go somewhere, HE MUST MUST HAVE A TOY. Or else he starts heerding everyone....I cant break him of it.

MAYBE, if you make sure she has a toy in her mouth she wont be tempted to use her mouth...
Im glad she did not hurt anyone! 
Good luck


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i know how embarrassed and discouraged you are, been there done that. excellent advice and opinions already posted here so i'll just second them all, and say always set her up for success (crating, leashes, one-at-a-time, etc.), and wish you much luck.


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

First I want to thank each and everyone of you for being here for me!! You are awesome to be so comforting right now-you all made me cry because I was really expecting a bashing-for not watching her closer. 

She normally always does grab a toy everywhere she goes, in the door, out the door, everywhere she goes she takes a toy. This time it was my SOL's leg. I am ever so grateful that she didn't hurt him. 

She is like Raziel's dog. I think she was just telling him to move, but the big problem is that everyone that sees her do this takes it as she is vicious. My SOL proceeded to tell me that I should do the Alpha Roll! Of course I tried to educate him on that theory/action but it fell on deaf ears! Earlier he had been sqeeking one of the toys and Nadi had nipped at him which I corrected right away too. As soon as she nipped him I took ahold of her collar and she laid right down and over on her side-she knew she messed up. Even if I was one to do the alpha roll, this would not have been neccessary because she automatically submitted.

Jean, Thank you! I do practice NILIF and at one time almost thought I did it too much. I make her sit for her toys before I will throw them. I work OB with them both daily. When it is raining, I work on perch training. I do some clicker training. I work on heel, come, sit, stay, down, roll over, speak, shake, leaveit/ I work on fence aggression and have that one just about beat! Normally, all I have to do when they are misbehaving is say 'eh' - even when they are 60-80 feet away out in the yard and even when they are having a loud, snarly spat. One "eh' and they stop and come right to me. 

Both dogs listen to me so much better than they did even 3 months ago. But by not having people over to visit on a regular basis, she is anti social. Much like the above post. She will be leashed when there are people around. Or crated. From now on. 

Oh, and I do seperate them frequently. I can only handle working OB one at a time. I take them for individual walks at the park. I take them to the vet on seperate trips. I believe that somehow she was over her threshold-probably because I had released my male from his crate first and she is the more dominate of the two, so him being first out the door set her up for reaching her threshold, and having my SOL blocking the door put her over-she did not Think- she acted.

I just talked to my behaviorist, and he said much the same thing-to leash her when there are people visiting and to be ever so vigilant about watching her. I am going to try to talk my family into coming over more to help me to work thru this, but after yesterday I doubt they will.

Again, thank you to all of you for being so kind and understanding!


----------



## ThorDog (Feb 12, 2010)

I am really sorry about what happened!
I was going to ask you if you think she was trying to heard?
I know exactly what you mean about people not understanding. I had another question though, wouldn't she be more agressive on a leash? My beloved GSD that passed away in March after 14 years was more agressive on leash but did great off leash. But when people came over we would keep him on the other side of a kid's gate for about 5 min until he calmed down and then came to visit with everyone. Maybe there is just too much excitment for her when everyone is going out to play...
Again, I am really sorry.


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

Thank you ThorDog! 

Nadi actually does very well on leash. She would probably prefer to be out in the yard with my other dog and playing with the kids, but I can't trust her to behave and not scare the kids. By having her on leash, I stand a good chance of preventing it from happening. I definitely will have the control and be able to correct her if she tries it again. 

My biigest regret is that I did not have the presence of mind yesterday to 1) have her on leash to begin with and 2) to say 'eh' rather than to scream her name. I think the sound of my voice when I hollered did slow her down and 'snap her mind out of it' in time, but it is also possible that it added more stress to the situation. 

This is such a difficult situation because I litterally have one person who comes over to my house to visit. She knows him so well that she does not do it to him. I NEED more people to come over often to get her better socialized! It is different when I take her out somewhere else too, mainly because away from home they are both already on leash. At least I know now that I will not be able to ever let my guard down unless we get major help.


----------



## Sashmom (Jun 5, 2002)

Zisso you have all my sympathy. My rescue gsd, wow, he turns into CUJO when people come to the door. My son came over to meet him, wow, so much barking, my hubs put leash on him but he still didnt calm down and since heis a rescue and I dont really know his background. Im afraid to take a chance. This leash or not leash thing is a touch one. Some people seem to think theyre better not on a leash but I feel more comfortable and can control him beter on a leash when he is acting so NUTS. 
All I can say is no, my son will NOT be around him it gets hard when theyre fully grown and you need people so you can train them not to act like this. I sure wish I lived around some tough GSD people but I dont. I have had a big GSD bark at me like this but I didnt really feel afraid and he did calm down when he saw I wasnt afraid but most people wont do this. :help: Who wants to be around a big barking dog?? That s the problem with our situation. I need a volunteer to just stand there and ignore him but cant get any volunteers. With my hubby and I he is fine! Its so frustrating isnt it?


----------



## MTAussie (Dec 9, 2007)

I am not sure about the past issues you were having, but this situation doesn't seem terrible. It sounds typical! Other dogs/people rushing out the door and then she is let out of her crate, overexcited and in pursuit! 
It's great you are doing NILIF. I am not sure if you are practicing at doorways, and coming in and out of their crates. I would start if you aren't. 
Also, I would establish rules about the dogs and make sure your daughter and her family are aware of them. 
Like you said, leashing her would help as well. That would be great to work into your NILIF crate/door exercises.

Hang in there! It sounds like you are working hard!


----------



## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i have a young male that will go after peoples feet........he can be laying down relaxed and someone is sitting visiting and if they just move their feet or change sitting positions he whines and goes after their feet....he also has grabbed peoples pantlegs when they are walking out the door...............i think alot of it is impulse control.

i have been setting him up on leash with people......doing "leave its" calling him to me making him sit and "good boy" its got to the point where when someone moves their feet he looks at me first.just takes time and consistancy and people to set things up with........


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

That is what I need....People!! I NEED people to come to my house and can't find a reliable and willing participant. I have one friend that says she is coming over but never shows. My daughter does the same thing most of the time. My son lives too far away. I have even thought about hiring high school kids, but that would not be a good idea in the long run. 

There is a path next to my yard so on the (now rare) occassion that someone comes by, I have used them to help me with the fence aggression and it has been perfect. But having anyone come inside my yard without having dog experience is asking for a lawsuit. 

So I will continue to work in this the best I can and take advantage of any scenario that does not put others at risk. 

MTAussie- you are sooo right! I DO needt o work and practice NILIF when it comes to releasing them from their crates! I am embarrassed to admit that the thought never occured to me to use it in that case too. I do make them wait at the door when we go out, but in this case the door was already open ... and to be honest, with my family here, I was not using my noggin :headbang: so in the long run I can say this is owner error!


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is a SOL?


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

codmaster said:


> Pardon my lack of knowledge but what is a SOL?


Son In Law  and dont feel bad cause i dont know them all either. I assume that DH means Dear Husband, I know BF means boyfriend, I Think DOL would be daughter in law, heck who knows..I normally spell them out so I apologize


----------



## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

SIL is Son In Law, DIL is Daughter In Law.

Zisso, I think you are doing great with these dogs, but I also think that the tips you have been given will give you a bit more control. It is difficult to socialise your animals if you are not socially oriented yourself (which is me). But I do go out of my "comfort zone" to make every walk an opportunity for Quynne to see other people and other dogs as being no threat. I greet everyone we meet with a "good morning" etc as appropriate. I compliment every dog we see to the dog's owner. I make Quynne sit, and treat her for it, anytime we see something she shows any indication she is wary about it and if possible go up to the suspect item and show her that it is nothing to worry about. I do use NILIF in a very mild way when necessary. All the best.


----------



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Zisso said:


> Son In Law  and dont feel bad cause i dont know them all either. I assume that DH means Dear Husband, I know BF means boyfriend, I Think DOL would be daughter in law, heck who knows..I normally spell them out so I apologize


I did consider that (from the text message) but figured that SIL would be Son In Law! 

Thanks all for the explanation.


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

just out of curiosity what is it for Sister in Law? LOL


----------



## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

Since I'm not sure exactly how the dog's body language was, I'm not sure if this might help. 

Isa loves all people, old, young, kids, toddlers, adults, you name it. When I was at my nana's(grandma) house a couple kids came over to visit, they're parents are friends to my nana, and they saw that I had the dogs and wanted to play with them. They started running out the door and suddenly Isa ran after them, almost nipped them. With Isa, it was her herding instincts kicking in, she wanted to herd them like she does with sheep. I'm not sure if this is similar to your experience but I thought it might comfort you.  Maybe Nadi was just so excited?


----------



## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

I think the best thiing you can do is look at this dog realistically. there are some dogs you have to keep a close watch on their whole lives.I am realistic about Paige, she wants to bite someone. It sucks but it is true so I have to be extra on top of her always.You have to get really strict with a dog like this to save it from itself.Yesterday I had a cable guy over and he almost walked into my yard and my kid and I both yelled "do not walk out there!" I accept Paige's unacceptable traits. I control her as much as possible. Yes, sometimes you have to be mean as well.You have to let that dog know that no matter how much it wants to do something it isn't allowed to.Don't get upset, get determined.


----------



## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

SuzyE, Very good points! I am so determined to make this work for us! So when I have other people over, she is either kenneled or crated, depending on the situation. My son is afraid of her, so she is not in contact with him. My computer tech was over twice this week and she was not allowed contact with him either. Better to safe than sorry. I refuse to set her up for failure, so total control is my best path, and so far it is working. I do however take her for walks at our local park, so now amd also having her take a Cuz to carry around in her mouth so she is more focued on that then on strangers walking by us. That seems to help greatly! I will always be aware of her and her surroundings since this episode with my son in law.


----------

