# Help me decide



## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

Alittle background first, single male in process of closing on a home with a medium sized fenced yard. I've owned a number of dogs in the past, including my latest, an akita. I have some history in training dogs, but nothing competitive.

I am a law enforcement officer who fell in love with the drive and spirit of our K9 dogs, whom are ddr dogs. I always wanted a shepherd, and now that i'm done with school and have the actual time to dedicate to it, i'm interested in picking one up.

Now, cost is not a concern for me, that being said - i've been reading here for a few weeks now, and have a couple of books, but i'd like to give you guys what i'm looking for and hopefully you can tell me some breeder(s) to look at, as well as what line(s). I understand that alot of things depend on the dog, but i'll give overarching things.


1) First and foremost the dog must have no social aggression. Must not be a risk around children or other animals. Timidness around strangers is fine, but I don't want my dog to bite or be fearful. Family dog first. Everything else second.

2) I intend to train the dog and socialize it immensely. I will be enrolling in multiple classes for obedience and protection and whatever else strikes my fancy. This is not because I intend to compete with the dog, but to make it a nice well rounded dog, and to help bond with it. So i'd need a dog with the drive to participate.

3) I will be going to dog parks, beaches, hiking - the whole nine, probably with other dogs and people and as with #1 I need it to be trustworthy in these environments.

4) Sue me, but looks are important. I do NOT like the sloped back of any show line dogs, i think it's very unnatural and unattractive. I do very much enjoy the dark sable dogs, but not solid black. The dark sable czech dogs seem to be the most handsome dog, but I've heard that they are less inclined to be as good family dogs as the west german working lines. Brown / Black standard is also beautiful, but once again I enjoy the more streamlined, almost "wolf" look of the DDR / Czech dogs rather then the blockiness of the american and west german lines. My research ultimately leads me to believe a slightly more mellow west german working line dog would be what would suit me most though.

Anyway, sorry for the essay but it's obviously a big decision. Any help or insight would be much appreciated!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Sounds like you could do well with either a West or East German working. What area of the world/country are you in? Easier to recommend a breeder that way.


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

Agree, what area are you in?


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

you pretty much stated everything that i was looking for in a dog  i ended up with a west german working lined dog. he looks very wolfish at the moment.. he is a medium sable and he gets darker some weeks and then gets lighter the next  his temperment is absolutely supurb, we do protection work and he's a hard hitter with a crazy bite and you can cuddle with him after lol. he loves water and other dogs, loves car rides LOVES people and attention. very smart-i had him house trained in 2.5 weeks of getting him. ddr/czech dog should be fine for you too. they just tend to have more energy and drive and if you are willing to spend the time for them to direct their drive and mind then you should be good to go!
if your dog is from a reputable breeder with good balanced nerves then the outcome of him being safe and friendly around other people and dogs is UP TO YOU. it's YOUR job to socialize him to other people and dogs and busy places when he's a puppy and make it a good experience. you can read ALL about that on here later though 

i agree with emoore-i have three breeders i can recomend to you in Colorado..but there are great breeders everywhere so I'd have to know what state/region you are in and if you can travel


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## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

Michele, that is exactly what i'm looking for.

I am located in the new york area, by the city.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

You gotta at least take a walk over to MA and check out Wildhaus: (Wildhaus Kennels, Working German Shepherd Breeder in Michigan)


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

thinkrevolutionx said:


> Michele, that is exactly what i'm looking for.
> 
> I am located in the new york area, by the city.


 
DEFINATELY goto wildhaus (link below) i will be getting my next dog there! lol

my breeder doesn't update her website...but i am sure she ships. the dog i got my pup from-she will be breeding to the same stud. This will be the 3rd time she does it-she does it because the pups are out of this world!! really-they are perfect (okay i am a LITTLE biased). one from the first litter just got qualified k9 for Oakland, CA police 
Kennel Dogs Schutzhund Home protection SAR Police Dogs Mondio French Ring

i unfortuntaley don't know the north east too well-even though i grew up in vermont  people on here are very knowledgeable and will give you fantastic advice!!

there's also a great thread under "choosing a breeder" titled "what to look for in a breeder" so if you find a place by where you live you will know what to look for and what questions to ask.

dog hunting is half the fun


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Whatever you do, get the opposite sex to your Akita.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

you mean wolf like this 









or this?









or maybe this?









or last one I promise)









Sorry couldn't resist


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

thinkrevolutionx said:


> 1) Timidness around strangers is fine, but I don't want my dog to bite or be fearful.


Just to be clear, I don't think "timid" is the word you are looking for... "timid" implies shyness/fearfulness. Did you mean "aloof"? Because a dog that is timid with strangers is not a good sign for what you are looking for.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

***steals***



jakodacd oa said:


> you mean wolf like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

okay let me address a few things that are important.

clearly said you want a dog with rock solid stability.

you do not want timidness around strangers -- this is the dog that is difficult to socialize , because timid is an avoidance , stressed response . The thresholds may be quite low and the timid or shy dog is the one who will suddenly feel overwhelmed and bite . Timid and confident don't reside in the same dog. Believe me you want confident . 

point two , you want a dog with some potential -- once again a timid dog would be limiting , can't handle the stimulation of all the environments and situations you want to put the dog into. You want the dog to be trainable . A secure dog learns better because it has no issues and no worries to distract it . 

Especially if you want to do protection, you need a confident dog that will have judgement in responding appropriately and not out of fear for its life. A confident maintains its equilibrium, recovers, forgives , can carry on and cope and adjust to the situation without prolonged shut down or lingering anxiety. Quick recovery. 

Please what ever you do do not select a timid dog .

I agree with you about the roach backs. As I was saying to someone today that had an encounter with a coyote, there are no wild canids that have a roach back, only the hyaena . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

Yea, not timid. Wrong word usage.

My akita is a non factor at this point really. She is in retirement. Getting older, hip problems, residing with mom and dad now lounging away. 

I guess it's just natural for dogs to be weary around strangers. I just don't want it to manifest into problems. My akita never liked strangers, but it was never an issue, and if someone got too friendly her she would give a warning growl but never bit her whole life, which is good.

Jakoda - is that all the same dog? Beautiful. Almost exactly what I would be looking for. What line?

I checked out wildhaus already actually, and really like what I see there. I notice that they have a litter due in november which is a czech / west german mix, which also should be the coloring that I desire. Anyone here have a dog from them that can comment?


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

I have a Wildhaus dog she is in my avatar (picture next to my name) Completely in love with her and of course her breeder. Would gladly answer any and all questions you have feel free to pm me if you'd like. She is a dark sable long stock coat have tons of pictures of her. Eris is the litter due in November and she is the mother of my girl and she is an AMAZING girl. There are a number here on this board with dogs from Wildhaus.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I have a G pup from Wildhaus...at 2.5 he is maturing very nicely. 
You can read from their website all the accomplishments of their past litters. 
My G boy is of great temperament, higher threshold, not reactive to people or other dogs, and has an off switch. I feel fortunate to have been able to get a pup from this breeding~every day with him is a joy! He is a Czech/WG blending. A very happy, goofy, cuddly dog, but can be serious when the situation arises.
I suggest you go to some clubs in your area and see dogs in person, in the venues you possibly will be training.
Here is a picture of my 'pup' Karlo when he was 10 months:









And at 1.5 yrs:








and now~this was his first time on the suit:


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

Jakoda ( Diane ) the pictures she posted are of Masi, one of my breeding she is out of my stud dog Max. Masi is of Czech/DDR breeding. I have her brother on my website, his name is Enzo.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> I checked out wildhaus already actually, and really like what I see there. I notice that they have a litter due in november which is a czech / west german mix, which also should be the coloring that I desire. Anyone here have a dog from them that can comment?


Be aware that when breeding a sable dog to a black and tan, you are likely to get patterned sables in the litter too. When a patterned sable grows up, they can look like a badly pigmented black and tan dog. PLEASE do NOT, take the above as me bashing that breeder.. As that is NOT what I am doing AT ALL. I would take a pup from them in a HEARTBEAT! Just wanted to make you aware that this is a possibility with this sire and dam color combination.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Jinx was from a sable and a black/tan the entire litter so far has gorgeous coloring and pigment so while it may very well be possible it doesn't mean that it's going to happen. I won't go any further on it because I definitely DO NOT know when it comes to genetics and how they play into colors etc.. Is it something thats possible for a breeder with experience to pick up on and let you know a pup that has the potential to "turn"??


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Yes, Masi is from kleinenhain She has her 'quirks' but I am perfectly happy with her

I think Chris also produces some really nice dogs,,,Cliff here on the board is another I would take a dog in a heartbeat from..and yes I'd get another dog from wanda (kleinenhain) as well


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

I agree with Diane I would check out Cliff and Chris. They both have some awesome dogs.

Thanks Diane, you know now much I love your Masi girl


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Yes, Masi is from kleinenhain
> I think Chris also produces some really nice dogs,,,Cliff here on the board is another I would take a dog in a heartbeat from..and yes I'd get another dog from wanda (kleinenhain) as well


Yup, would take a dog from any of those, but I have no idea where Cliff lives. He's a man of mystery. aranoid:


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

I believe Cliff lives in NJ but could be wrong


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

thinkrevolutionx said:


> I guess it's just natural for dogs to be weary around strangers. I just don't want it to manifest into problems. My akita never liked strangers, but it was never an issue, and if someone got too friendly her she would give a warning growl but never bit her whole life, which is good.


Aloof is fine--it's even in the standard--but a dog that growls at friendly strangers is showing stress, and you never know when that dog will feel stressed enough to bite. Believe me, that is a liability you do not want. You want a dog that is confident enough to *ignore* strangers unless they present a true threat. Growling at a stranger that is "too friendly" is a risky state of affairs. You got lucky with your Akita; don't encourage it with a GSD.

Make sure to socialize the pup. While growing up, IMO puppies should learn that everyone is their friend--they should not know about bad people until they are a little older. Many puppies who are friendly, goofy, or solicitous with strangers will mature to be naturally aloof. However, a dog that is not socialized may not know how to tell a true threat from an imagined one, and may be overly wary or timid of strangers. A socialized dog will be no less protective than an unsocialized one, and is much safer.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I love Wildhaus dogs! There are a bunch of them on this forum. They are all beautiful, drivey, and social. I want a dog from that breeding due in Nov so badly!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

thinkrevolutionx said:


> Alittle background first, single male in process of closing on a home with a medium sized fenced yard. I've owned a number of dogs in the past, including my latest, an akita. I have some history in training dogs, but nothing competitive.
> 
> I am a law enforcement officer who fell in love with the drive and spirit of our K9 dogs, whom are ddr dogs. I always wanted a shepherd, and now that i'm done with school and have the actual time to dedicate to it, i'm interested in picking one up.
> 
> ...


 
One thing - you mentioned timidness around strangers is fine with you but this can be a BIG problem if you want to do stuff with the dog so i would recommend against a timid puppy!


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## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

Thank you very much for the advice so far. I also stumbled upon tru haus as well, which has a litter growing out right now. It seems ( and by all means correct me if i'm wrong ) that the wild haus dogs are more accomplished then tru haus (and more expensive as a result) but both dogs are probably way above what i'd ever be able to accomplish with them. I really think the two dogs that tru haus has bred are absolutely stunning, and they are west german working line (male has some slight DDR blood)

For what I have put out there, which would you guys go with? 

(German Shepherd Puppies For Sale in Michigan, by Wildhaus Kennels )

German Shepherd Dog, True Haus Kennels

anyone have links to the other two you had mentioned? I am in no rush. Both of the above would be 6 weeks / 4 months respectively. So there is time. Tru haus has one male available from that litter still.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Cliff doesn't have a website. You'd want to contact him through the board to get ahold of him, and his username is Cliffson1. 

Kleinen Hain is the person who was talking to you above; her website is in her signature. 

I know there are some people on this forum who have True Haus dogs, you might do a search or post a new topic if you're curious about them. Aren't they in California? Me personally, I'd prefer to buy a pup from a breeder I can visit and actually meet the mom and maybe the dad and definitely meet the breeder and shake their hand, rather than buy a pup from across country and have it shipped. Nothing against True Haus at all, but I'd personally go with a breeder nearby rather than one on the opposite coast, all things being equal. The cost of a True Haus pup and a Wildhaus pup will end up being about the same once you pay $300 to ship your True Haus puppy.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

thinkrevolutionx said:


> Thank you very much for the advice so far. I also stumbled upon tru haus as well, which has a litter growing out right now. It seems ( and by all means correct me if i'm wrong ) that the wild haus dogs are more accomplished then tru haus (and more expensive as a result) but both dogs are probably way above what i'd ever be able to accomplish with them. I really think the two dogs that tru haus has bred are absolutely stunning, and they are west german working line (male has some slight DDR blood)
> 
> For what I have put out there, which would you guys go with?
> 
> ...


WHOOAAAA BACK UP!!

lesson one: just because a dog is major accomplished does not mean it's too good for you!!!! it all depends on what YOU want to do with your dog  people that breed these dogs...this is their passion and their life. they LOVE to train and show....this does not make a dog "too good" for being a protection companion.
you may be like me-i got a WL dog with the intention of companion and protection and after going to classes and seeing my trainers dogs i ended up training for mondio ring!! please do not think that they will pressure you into training your dog for schutzhund or ring sport or whatever...you may like it as a hobby later on 

in germany a german shepherd is not eligible to breed until they HAVE a sch1 title. every german shepherd should be capable of completely a schutz 1-even show line dogs...that's the breed standard 


that being said i am biases to the first one. i want my next dog to be from there lol


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Just to add a couple things since we're being thrown out as a possible breeder for the OP....

We're in Michigan, not Mass. So a good distance from the OP.

The fall litter is not likely to produce the coloration the OP wants. We should have solid blacks, black and tans, and sables but the sables are not going to be super dark, and certainly not "black sable". I'd expect they'll look like their dam.

On the color preference thing, not that there is anything inherently wrong with that provided temperament and health are prioritized above color, but be aware that dark sables and "black sables" seem to be the new fad that everyone and their brother is wanting to purchase. And therefore there are more and more people who have no business breeding dogs of any kind that are getting some dogs, getting a website, and breeding puppies specifically for the color market. Be careful, especially of any breeders you come across who use color as a primary advertiser.

Cliff is in NJ, and would definitely be a good resource to contact about dogs in that area. Particularly if you're looking at eastern European lines.

To the OP, there are several good breeders of the type of dog you are looking for on the east coast. My suggestion would be to go visit clubs and meet some dogs and breeders in person. This will give you a MUCH better feel for what the dogs and breeders are like than any website or internet research. Not that there is anything wrong with surfing sites and asking for feedback on message boards, but it's just a place to start and is best followed up by seeing the dogs themselves.

P.S. Elizabeth... Jinx's sire, Tobi, is a patterned sable. Not a black and tan.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Chris Wild said:


> We're in Michigan, not Mass. So a good distance from the OP.


Eh Michigan, Massachusetts, what's the difference? They both start with M and they both have snow. :silly:


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Emoore that is too funny :rofl: 

See why I had my disclaimer on I dont know about the colors genetics etc.. I have only seen the one main pic of Tobi and thought he was a black and tan but theres my point hes a patterned sable and regardless has great coloration lol. Thanks for my lesson of the day Chris  lol


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

thinkrevolutionx said:


> It seems ( and by all means correct me if i'm wrong ) that the wild haus dogs are more accomplished then tru haus (and more expensive as a result) but both dogs are probably way above what i'd ever be able to accomplish with them.


True Haus is affiliated with SDA, and they do AKC obedience, but for some reason they don't compete in SchH. Not that it really matters, IMO, as long as the dogs are competing in *some* venue that tests the character of the dog. That doesn't mean YOU have to compete in such endeavors if you're not interested in breeding.

Which True Haus litter are you interested in?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Wanted to mention to the OP that when you start talking to breeders, be sure to ask then if they let you choose the color of the pup. MANY do NOT. Meaning if you put a deposit on a litter, and there are multiple colors of puppies born,( for example dark sables, light sables and solid blacks.) if the one that is the best fit for you isn't a dark sable but instead is solid black, you are either required to take the pup that is the "wrong" color, our you get nothing. But there ARE some breeders that will let you move your deposit to a different litter.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think after the OP gets out there and looks at dogs, color will not be the most important thing!


> I have only seen the one main pic of Tobi and thought he was a black and tan but theres my point hes a patterned sable and regardless has great coloration lol


Tobi does look like a B&T from afar but up close he is a gorgeous sable! His facial markings also gives him more of a B&T look than a sable.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Jane, that may be, but a lot of folks still have preferences. The OP already stated they didn't like solid black. That may never change. I personally can't stand the looks of patterned sables, and that will NEVER change. But I know how to go about it so I don''t have to worry about possibly ending up with one.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Obviously you haven't met Tobi? :wub:


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

BlackGSD said:


> Jane, that may be, but a lot of folks still have preferences. The OP already stated they didn't like solid black. That may never change. I personally can't stand the looks of patterned sables, and that will NEVER change. But I know how to go about it so I don''t have to worry about possibly ending up with one.


 
sorry to hijak-what's the difference between a sable and a patterened sable?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

_I wanna black boy I wanna black boy)_


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

MicheleMarie said:


> sorry to hijak-what's the difference between a sable and a patterened sable?


Just what it sounds like. The hairs are sable, but the pattern of light and dark hairs makes them look like a black and tan. So according to Chris, this dog Tobi is a patterned sable. 

Tobi von den Wölfen - German Shepherd Dog


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## idahospud49 (Jan 28, 2011)

I agree, pretty much all of the breeders listed here are ones I would love to get a puppy from someday. I will put a little plug in for my breeder, but she is way out here in Arizona.  She is awesome and really knows her stuff. Even if you didn't get a puppy from her, you could call her up and just talk dogs with her. Czech German Shepherds Import Working Line
She has two litters on the ground right now, and I believe has 3 males available out of those puppies. Good luck and let us know who you go with.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Here are a few more of Tobi at last yrs Regionals:

** oversized photos removed by Admin. Please resize to no larger than 800X600 and repost**








This one is from training, but you can see he is a sable


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## kleinenHain (Sep 20, 2007)

Nice looking dog 

Diane I got your black boy coming


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Freestep said:


> Just to be clear, I don't think "timid" is the word you are looking for... "timid" implies shyness/fearfulness. Did you mean "aloof"? Because a dog that is timid with strangers is not a good sign for what you are looking for.


Was just going to say this...but will just second it now.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

kleinenHain said:


> I believe Cliff lives in NJ but could be wrong


You are correct


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

onyx'girl said:


> Obviously you haven't met Tobi? :wub:


Yeah to be fair that PDB pic does not do him justice. 










ETA: I see you have regional pics too


As far as patterned sables go, I think my Kenya is a decent example



























What's interesting to me though is her sister looks basically black and tan. Both parents were sables. Does that work?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

onyx'girl said:


> Obviously you haven't met Tobi? :wub:


I don't have to meet them know I don't like the color! That said, I'm sure he is a perfectly nice dog. I don't like bright yellow on a car either, doesn't mean the car is a junker, I just prefer a different colored "wrapper".


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

WOO HOO, its Kenya. I was wondering were her pics were on your thread what had pics of all 3 boys. Her sister looks B&T me. Isn't it entirely possible that she is? Even though both parents are sable obviously at least one is a patterned sable. She could have gotten the b& t gene and NOT the sable couldn't she?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

"She" Kenya or "she" Kenya's sister in the pic? Kenya always looked sable to me (brush her hair backwards and it is cream, all of her undercoat is cream unlike Nikon and Coke who have black/charcoal undercoat where they are black, Pan is a normal sable and has cream undercoat). I've never seen a puppy pic of Kenya but the breeder always called her sable and just based on looking at her in person I never thought otherwise. Her sire died just before I adopted her so I never met him but have several pics of him and he looked sable. Her dam I had seen in person on several occasions and was sable. I haven't ever met any of her siblings. Kenya was bred to a black and tan (red) male and the two progeny I have seen on occasion are black and tan.

Anyway, I also have color preferences and aren't ashamed of them. There are so many great dogs and litters and breeders. I just pick breedings that will produce what I want. The same is true for the temperament, drives, overall conformation....


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Welcome to Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

I would definitely also take a look at her if I were looking for a puppy. Actually I am winding up with a puppy from a friend's breeding but really like Christine's breeding goals, philosophy, and what she is doing with her dogs and she is both on the forum and the East Coast, in VA.

LOL as to the sable - yeah - gotta love them and, ironically, my next pup is the one sable in a litter of 4 but it really did not matter to me; I was even ready for a change......

--------

Some things you said I have to comment on. I have one West German Working female and one Czech male. Next dog will be a blend but of Czech and West German (with some old herding lines and dogs known for biddability)

I went into the female (West German) as a puppy based on my preconceived notions about Czech dogs and found her to be too high in prey drive, no off switch, and a PITA to live with while my Czech male (with some DDR) wound up being very calm in the house yet a tireless and focused worker. His breeding was pretty typical for police work, but he does not really appear to have the fighting drives to be a great patrol dog (though he is great for detection) So I would look to the individual dogs and expand on your "requirements" instead of worrying too much about which subdivision.

My two cents which is worth a quarter or a plugged nickel deciding on how you take it.

I, honestly, have found it much more of a dream to live with a dog that is dog neutral than one raised to play with other dogs. He plays with ME and completely ignores other dogs. Much easier to live with. Of course it puts it on me to provide relationship and entertainment. So I am one that says forget the dog parks. Dogs don't need to play with each other; they need to play with you.

I guess that came home to me again when we were at a SAR team event this weekend and I was thinking about which team adult dogs to socialize my new puppy with. I realized some dogs are allowed to play with other dogs after hours and others are not. Honestly, the ones who don't do doggy play don't seem to miss it one bit and are some of our most driven dogs for the work. 

Social Aggression - well I think that comes with the breed - I think the goal is to get a dog with a high enough trigger (threshold) that only a grevious imposition will cause it to truly engage with defense. I think this may not make the sportiest sport dog but may make one more stable. I have grandkids and my dog is a SAR dog who must be impeccible around people and animals.....Would he fight? Yes I think so. Has he ever felt threatened? The ONLY time I have ever seen this dog rattled was when he put himself between me and a bear and his hackles went up and he moved slow and stiff neither charging nor retreating. So I don't think agression is a bad thing in its proper place as long as the trigger is not too loose.


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks Jane for the pics I can definitely tell he's sable in those pics and quite a handsome one.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Kenya's sister looks black/tan to me. Parents being sable doesn't mean they didn't carry another color, in this case black/tan, as recessive. So producing black/tan is entirely possible. If Kenya herself had black/tan pups, they obviously at least one of her parents did carry the black/tan gene and she inherited one sable gene, which she expresses herself, and one black/tan gene that she doesn't express because it's recessive to her sable gene, but is still there to be passed on.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Liesje said:


> "She" Kenya or "she" Kenya's sister in the pic? Kenya always looked sable to me (brush her hair backwards and it is cream, all of her undercoat is cream unlike Nikon and Coke who have black/charcoal undercoat where they are black, Pan is a normal sable and has cream undercoat). I've never seen a puppy pic of Kenya but the breeder always called her sable and just based on looking at her in person I never thought otherwise. Her sire died just before I adopted her so I never met him but have several pics of him and he looked sable. Her dam I had seen in person on several occasions and was sable. I haven't ever met any of her siblings. Kenya was bred to a black and tan (red) male and the two progeny I have seen on occasion are black and tan.
> 
> Anyway, I also have color preferences and aren't ashamed of them. There are so many great dogs and litters and breeders. I just pick breedings that will produce what I want. The same is true for the temperament, drives, overall conformation....


OOPS, sorry I wasn't more clear. I ment "she" Kenyas sister looks b&t to me. I knew that Kenya herself is a patterned sable.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

To the OP......there are several, really outstanding WL breeders on this forum.
Not only being reflected in their "quality"of breedings, but also in their "quality" as good people.
They offer honest and educated help to others, while remaining respectful and non condescending in their opinions.
You would do well in contacting them....*Chris, Sue, Carolina, Christine, Cliff, Diane, Melinda & Carmen....are just a few that come to mind, and I know there are others that I am forgetting.* (not intentionally).
FWIW...I always find myself draw to Chris & Christine's posts....I love their ability to "write" so that everyone (including myself) can easily understand.
Good luck on your search...& best wishes!


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I tried to edit my post...but because my computer had a "meltdown & froze up"...it wouldn't let me.
I forgot to mention Lee also as a breeder to contact.
Also wanted to say that even though "many" breeders on this forum do not share the same opinions as others (myself included)...it would not stop me from recommending them as ethical & honest people. Opinions are as individual as the people who have them...
No one breeder/trainer or enthusiast.. knows everything...no matter what "they" believe.
@ OP...decide *what you want* in your dog.....a well bred GSD dog (no matter what bloodline you choose) should be able to fill the requirement.
JMO


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I just looked at your website and your breeding males/females....Wow! Most of them, including your females, have Schutzhund titles!    

Beautiful dogs too....




robinhuerta said:


> I tried to edit my post...but because my computer had a "meltdown & froze up"...it wouldn't let me.
> I forgot to mention Lee also as a breeder to contact.
> Also wanted to say that even though "many" breeders on this forum do not share the same opinions as others (myself included)...it would not stop me from recommending them as ethical & honest people. Opinions are as individual as the people who have them...
> No one breeder/trainer or enthusiast.. knows everything...no matter what "they" believe.
> ...


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## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

wow! this thread got a little nuts. Thank you so much for all the replies, and I have to give a large thumbs up to the forum for having very helpful and friendly people. My observations of many other forums are they are much more critical and less .. inclusive i'd say of new people. So , hats off.

Freestep: As far as what true haus litter; 

German Shepherd Dogs, True Haus Kennels DDR
German Shepherd Dogs, True Haus Kennels DDR

6 males one female in the litter. One male still available. I'd have to say tommy is one of the most beautiful dogs i've ever seen. I've been in contact with cindy reed from true haus and she has been very helpful, entertaining my essay long emails of questions. What I really like is that they are West german dogs with (at least the male) the look which I favor, of the east german lines. 

I also dropped a PM to cliff, because it never hurts.

Any thoughts on the above? She had said that the puppies are not bred to be extremely high drive, which should be easier for novice trainer like myself. (I do have experience training my akita, but nothing on the level of these dogs)

I've also, as an aside been reading over all the stickies, watching all the videos, and reading the linked articles on the puppy forum here. Very helpful there as well. Makes me feel much more prepared.

MicheleMarie - Thanks. Your kind attitude is exactly what I was commenting on above. I'm hoping that getting the dog involved in activities will in turn spark my interest in getting even more involved. Who knows.

jocoyn - Thank you for the link, it seems all but the solid blacks have been reserved, which I unfortunately do not desire =( I will keep my eye out though. More resources the better.

I'm still torn between getting a west vs czech dog. People seem so split between "It's a dog by dog basis" and "west german better companions easier to socialize" I do know that my searches do turn up more social issues with the DDR / Czech working lines.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I responded to your pm.


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