# Dose your Schutz dog play with other dogs???



## nysirk (Apr 15, 2008)

A few weeks ago I took Dexter 15 months out with a few people who do shutz, to see what it was all about, and if it might be something Dexter would like. Its not a club, just a click of a few people, some working towards BH and the two main guys have shutz titles, on their Shepherds. I know its prob not the best place to train, if we were serious about titles and stuff, but a good place to maybe get a start, and get an idea of what its all about. 

Well we had a BLAST!! I love how people who know nothing about this sport are all warning you of how mean they are to the dogs. I loved how everyone was using toys and treats and prongs, verbal motivation very fair and fun to the dogs. Obiendence went okay we got some work if we do plan on doing this sport. We also go to do Agitation training, and WOW. Dexter loved it he went wildly into Prey drive and thought it was awesome, the trainers really were impressed with him one was even jelious of how good he would be for the protection part, and this was only our first time. I had a feeling this dog would be good for this sport but I thought i knew dogs well until i got him then realized i know NOTHING about working lines, but im learning now. 

So we really had a great time, Dexter seemed to Love it, I enjoyed it too he was having fun, but were not sure this is the right sport for us.
The other shutz guys don't allow their dogs to play with other dogs EVER they call them "working dogs" I am not okay with this Dexter is my kid, its important we do whats fun for him and playing with other dogs is a big part of his life, and I will not take that away from him. I also enjoy teaching him stupid pet tricks, and other nonsense thats just fun for us. Ive read many other post where many of you have a working dog that also is a great family dog, so I know there is a way to balance it all somehow. If my dog is biting completely out of prey and not defense I don't see how that would affect playing with other dogs, we had some doggie play time shortly after we trained and he played normal like he always dose. So Im just not sure if this is the right thing for us, or maybe not the right time we are also working out some barrier frustration issues (coming along great). I don't care that much about titles it would be nice but Its most important to me that i have a Happy dog, and do what right for him by giving him a job keeping his brain and body active, Also to keep him safe and that he have Decent manners when out in public. 

So I was wondering if your shutz dog is allowed to play with other dogs? or why they aren't allowed to


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

At the club I go to, NO. The dogs are put up while we train and only out 1 at a time, unless we are doing obedience, then they are out together, but no interaction and we keep them spaced apart.
If you want your dog to focus on the exercise, they should have no distractions or be tired out(mentally/physically). 
At home, my pup does interact with my other dogs, there are differing opinions on this for SchH dogs. I am also socializing my pup as much as possible with anything/everything safe. 
What you do with your own dog, depends on YOUR goals. Everyone has different goals so do what you think is best. 
Some clubs are not very tolerant of members who are not into serious competition.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Our SchH dogs play with other dogs, yes. However, only dogs we know very well so we can be assured the dogs they play with are healthy, and are also good with other dogs. So their doggy play is restricted to playing amongst themselves (and with 6 dogs there's plenty of that) and to the dogs of friends and family members. We do not allow our dogs to play and socialize with strange dogs. This would be the rule whether we did SchH or not as I feel a bunch of strange dogs playing together is unwise and dangerous, not to mention completely unnecessary in most cases. 

We also do not let our dogs socialize with other dogs, not even our own dogs or dogs they normally do play with, at training and trials. To do so would be very counterproductive. Dogs must be able to differentiate between play/social time and work time and if we allowed our dogs to mix dog play with training/work that would countermand that. This is true not only of SchH, but of any competitive venue. All sorts of problems can arise if a dog shows up at training or a trial thinking it's social hour and being fixated on the other dogs there as potential play mates. So it's important to balance things and set the dog up to succeed by removing any mixed signals or confusion of expectations and making sure the dog knows the difference between when it's ok to play with other dogs and when it's not.


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## sungmina (Jul 28, 2008)

I have two dogs that are training in schutzhund and they rarely play with other dogs and like Chris said about her dogs, it is restricted to dogs we own or know well...

So no, I guess I don't really let my dogs play with other dogs often, but really,* I *play with my dog, and he likes playing with me more than he likes playing with other dogs because of it, and I am fine with that. My dog is a "working dog" or puppy rather, but that doesn't mean he has no fun, because that is very much not the case. He has tons of fun, everyday and all the time, it is just not with other dogs.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Basically what Chris said!! My dogs do socialize with each other and every once in a while will meet dogs I know well on MY terms - which basically means they should just ignore each other, lol. 
My girls are dominant with other dogs - not aggressive but they won't tolerate any posturing etc so it's best just to avoid that.

Also schutzhund dogs ARE usually more dominant, it's just in their nature, so they may try to bully other dogs. And a more submissive dog will be dominated by other dogs and from what I've seen will not be as "up" in the work. 
I am sure others will disagree, but at our Schh club several new people have come with dogs that were used to being pushed around by other dogs. They were told to stop those interactions and before too long the dogs perked right up. One person even started "cheating" and you could see the attitude change again.

You may also see a change in Dexter as he gets a little older. A lot of GSD's are very puppylike and playful until they grow up mentally and then they start taking their interactions more seriously.

Although I don't agree with it, I wouldn't decide against schutzhund just because people don't allow their dogs to play with others, especially if you're not serious about titling your dog. As long as you keep your dogs at a respectable distance from other club members' dogs, I don't know if they should be able to dictate what you do at home.


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## Mark B (Feb 3, 2009)

I have two intact male GSD's (8 1/2yrs and 19 months), one spayed female GSD(21 months), one nuetured Boston terrier male (8yrs)and they all run together. 

Mark 

http://www.ultimatekanine.com

http://www.kampkanine.com


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Home and training are two different things. At home, my dogs have a LOT of freedom, even compared to many "pet" dogs that will never do SchH. First and foremost, my dogs are my companions. I am not against kennels and dog runs - heck I would build some if I owned the property! - but I am against kenneling a dog simply _because_ he is supposed to be a SchH dog, or allowing very limited play/interaction b/c of SchH. The way I see it, the dog either has what it takes or he doesn't. I don't want to kennel my dog, only let him have toys when I am there, and only let him play with other dogs for a few minutes a day just for SchH. My dogs interact nonstop. SchH or not I don't allow one dog to constantly bully or one dog to constantly be bullied. I have toys strewn about my home and yard. However there are certain toys that belong explicitly to *me* and are used in the context of SchH (namely tugs and special balls). 

Now for training, it is one dog at a time. At home I will take one dog somewhere to train, or make sure the other dogs are out of the way. At club we train one at a time, except in ob sometimes we are intentionally training to work near other dogs. Protection is *always* one at a time with the exception of the baby puppies. 

I teach my dogs tricks too. I was embarrassed by this once, when Nikon was younger we went to a different club for a workshop and when it was my turn to show what Nikon could do, I told him to "platz" and then looked at the trainer to see what he wanted next and Nikon decided to show off his roll over.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

My dogs play within their own pack plus a few specific dogs that I know well. Vala still loves her brother and they play a little on leash and she also will play with her son Varick. Nike will play with her grandson, but hates being body slammed so that play is limited. I do allow my puppies to play a bit with other puppies and visit with specific older dogs. 

Playing and socializing with dogs outside of their pack is not natural to dogs. Some dogs tolerate it well. Others do not. 

At training we are there to work and not play. As others have said, to allow playing would be counter productive.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Diabla doesn't play often with other dogs, she doesn't like it that much and even when she may play with some dogs she thinks are nice, in general she ignores most of them. And I know it is because of how I raised her. When she was a small pup she met dozen of dogs (I work with dogs) and we participated in this Show GSD Club but I never let Diabla to play freely more than a copuple of times. She sees a dog and do not think "fun", she see me as the origin of all fun and that is how I like it. It was very frustrating with my Border Collie that tought everything was more fun than me.

I don't think she even misses play opportunities, she just carries the aloofness of the breed not only to people, but to dogs too. I do not feel I'm privating her of anything.

If I were you, I'd keep letting my pup playing with other dogs, after all is a fun thing to see even for us, but I'd limit those play sesion anywere but the training field.


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## bergwanderkennels (Mar 26, 2009)

Agreed that at VPG (Schutzhund) practice, we do not play with dogs outside our pack. (The club I go to now has a fenced in area where the dogs go potty and run a bit before practice)

But as I also conduct dog training group classes yes my dogs do play with dogs from my classes. These are usually smaller groups of 5 to 6 including my own. 

I use my dogs to teach my students also how to read dog body language when playing to know when they should step in and when play is just play. So yes you can balance it all if you really wanted to.


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## nysirk (Apr 15, 2008)

Thank you everyone! 



> Originally Posted By: phgsd
> Also schutzhund dogs ARE usually more dominant, it's just in their nature, so they may try to bully other dogs. And a more submissive dog will be dominated by other dogs and from what I've seen will not be as "up" in the work.


Hes 70lbs neutered, juvenile, strong minded boy. I think its safe to say now he is a former (or almost) on leash reactive dog New male dogs he meets off leash that is his size or smaller Beware!! He will greet friendly then into the whole head over their backs, body slams their sides, bites on the back of their necks and from time to time mounts them. Any male bigger then him he gos into defense (on leash/behind barrier) or off leash he goes into Flight. He tends to have better manners with the females (cuz hes smart) I feel Dex can be social akward, which is why i feel some group play of some sort is important in some part of our life. 


I see how play time at training is a bad idea. Honestly I don't think I would want Dex to play with the other dogs at training, They don't ever play with dogs anywhere, anytime, anyplace so not good play mates. I also got a bully on my hands. 

The main reason we wanted to go out to ScH training was to have to tolerate dogs on leash and not be able to play. To build his confidence's up on leash around other dogs, and he seems to LOVE the protection part. I think if we keep at it, its going to help all that in the long run. This is also my first dominant working type pup, learning alot, Libby was a breeze compared to him. 

I haven't really been able to let him play at a dog park or anything, not since he had the Free puppy pass. His barrier frustration and dominant rude manners got in the way. Ive learned alot from him about when you have to step in you can't always just let dogs work it out. 

You guys are very right I don;t need him to play with a bunch of strange dogs with owners I don;t know. All I need is for him to tolerate new dogs. We took him across town to the big "dog park" last week kept him on- leash, passed many dogs, some dogs even charged him to meet and he did amazing. That was something we could never do before, but were getting there. 


So maybe we can pursue this sport with him, the trainers seem to see alot in him. We are both having fun with it, hes all into the prey drive none of the game was out of defense, which is important to me that its a FUN thing, he is still a puppy. I think its fun to!

Never my intention to get a dog for this, but i think this and herding are the only sports hes really going to really thrive at and enjoy, He needs a job Im enjoying working with him, and its fun so why not, if we do get serious maybe we will get a title but i wont be disappointed if we don't. Its kinda like taking your kid to soccer practice, Im there being the coach. So even if its more work im going to work on a good balance of some playtime with dogs at home and for fun, and then a little serious on- leash no b.s. with other dogs work time.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: nysirkHe will greet friendly then into the whole head over their backs, body slams their sides, bites on the back of their necks and from time to time mounts them.


With a dog like that I wouldn't let him play with unknown dogs outside the pack. That's exactly the sort of play that can cause problems at off leash parks. If MY dog were to act like that I'd put a stop to it immediately, but I do know that Schutzhund dogs are raised in a very different manner than I raise my dogs, and behavior that I would consider unacceptable from a companion dog standpoint isn't necessarily a bad thing when you're competing in a sport where, as phgsd pointed out, a certain amount of dominance is to be expected.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree but I also wouldn't let SchH be an excuse for unwanted behavior. I have my rules and expectations for my dogs and that does not change regardless of whether it's Coke the Couch Warmer (no training beyond CGC) or Nikon the Insane (SchH training and more). 

I was at a different club than my regular club once and when Nikon came out he saw some other dogs in the distance and reacted a bit. I rolled my eyes and told him to hush but the others were smiling and saying they liked that sort of thing, he's a serious working dog and he's allowed to say his piece at the other dogs. I just said "erm, no he's not as long as he's my dog!" and redirected Nikon to something else. His reactivity is not something I'm overly concerned with at this point, but I'm not using SchH as an excuse either, or encouraging that behavior. Most of the time, I think it's the dog being fearful or unsure of himself anyway, and you definitely don't want that in a SchH dog!

Regardless of titles or training, I don't usually let my dogs play with dogs I don't know. I use training classes to sort of pre-screen dogs and owners. Sometimes we find one that just fits in our pack, so we arrange play dates with the dogs. All of my dogs have friends' dogs they love and friends' dogs they just don't get along with.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Lies, I agree with how you feel (in your second paragraph). One thing to react to the excitement of another dog working in protection (that can be used in helpful ways), but a totally different thing to just react to the presence of another dog.


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## gmcenroe (Oct 23, 2007)

People who bring their dogs to our local club always keep their dogs separated and crated from other dogs. If they are puppies owners sometimes allow them to interact with other dogs of the same size and age with both owners consent. Some Schutzhund people at my club can be a bit touchy about letting their dogs near any other dogs. I can't call my dog a Schutzhund dog yet since I am still training her in a lot of basics. The trainer I work with does not recommend letting my dog play with unknown dogs. When she was younger I took her to dog parks for socialization and so she is not so "dog stupid" but I would not take her in if I saw some bad dog/owner behavior. Now I don't take her to dog parks at all since I want her to focus more on training and the trainer instead of being distracted by other dogs. If I could wind back the clock I probably would not have taken her to any dog parks at all. I think letting her play with other dogs has made it more difficult to train her away from home, because she was always on alert for other dogs.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

while we train..no, no dog contact.


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## big_dog7777 (Apr 6, 2004)

In my opinion you can have different rules for your dog in different settings provided you are consistent in your expectations and training. On the field, the focus is YOU or the helper. Not other people, dogs, or anything else at all for that matter. You train that by making sure you are 100% more interesting than other dogs and spectators on the field and correcting for lack of focus while making sure everything else on the field except the helper is completely neutral. Along these same lines, I don't like prey drive work (tie outs or high drive OB) at my home. I may teach excercises using food in my yard, but the ball or tug never comes out at home because that sends mixed signals. For me, behavior on the field is 100% different than behavior in our yard or home. Always use the same routine when "working" and they will always know what they are coming out of the truck to do and will act accordingly. With good genetics and training a dog can absolutely be social with other dogs and people around your home and out about town during "family pet time" but still be a drivey land shark on the field.


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