# Child-Aggressive 3.5 yo Female



## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

Hello all! 
I am still new to the forum and to GSDs for that matter. We are adopting a retired female named Ezra from her. Ezra is an outstanding guard dog and according to the breeder, she doesn't like a lot of people but warmed up to us right away. She loves cats and other dogs, but the breeder thinks one of her dad's young neighbors may have done something to piss her off and since then she hates kids. According to the breeder, she is actively trying to "get at them" when kids come over. She said she has never tried to rehab her (she only has a high schooler and no other kids ever come over). We are also getting an 8 week old male pup from her also (Ezra loves them all so I'm not too worried) what does worry me is we are going to have a 5 year old living with us in about 6 months. 

What training advice do you guys have in introducing the two of them? We will not give up on Ezra, we are very calm and confident people and are ready for this challenge. We do plan on getting a professional behaviorist if we don't see improvements.

Thank you guys so much.






Ezra girl  (this was taken by Stoney Creek Farm)


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

I'm not an expert by any means but IMHO I wouldn't try to rehab a child-aggressive 3.5yo, if that means you want to trust her with children. 

I'd work on obedience diligently, and I wouldn't put her in any situation around children off-leash or up-close. She should be able to learn to control herself leashed when children are around, but I wouldn't count on making her kid-safe. Too much to risk for the child involved, not to mention the dog.

Personally, with a young child coming to live with you, I'd rehome with full disclosure. 

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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

Do not take this female if you are going to have a child live with you... Period. You are taking a serious risk if you do by putting a child in ahome with a dog who doesnt like kids..


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

We knew making her "kid safe" is an unrealistic goal but we would like for Ezra to at least tolerate the child (being 100% supervised of course) 


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

A 5 year old living with you and an aggressive dog that actively tries to get to children. Coming from a breeder that was aware of but never tried to correct the behavior. This seems like possibly one of the worse ideas I've ever heard of. Her behavior towards you may also change once she is settled in and feels comfortable in your home.


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

ksotto333 said:


> A 5 year old living with you and an aggressive dog that actively tries to get to children. Coming from a breeder that was aware of but never tried to correct the behavior. This seems like possibly one of the worse ideas I've ever heard of. Her behavior towards you may also change once she is settled in and feels comfortable in your home.


Very true thank you we will talk with her owner further and give it some more thought. Thank you all so much for your advice! 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I wouldn't do it. 

There are a LOT of dogs in need of homes out there. Leave this one for someone who doesn't have kids and has no intention of having kids. It's really a set up. And no five year old should have to pay for it. 

Also, it is unrealistic to live with a five year old and have no situation ever present itself where the dog and the child are in a room together alone. It's too much of a gamble.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

don't get the child aggressive dog. you have a 5 yr old child coming
to live with you and you have no experience with dogs. what sense 
does it make to get a child aggressive dog with a 5 year old coming to live
you and don't have any dog experience. don't do it. i wouldn't get
the puppy because the 3.5 yr old dog is untrained. you don't have
any dog experience. how are you going to manage a puppy and
3.5 yr old dog that's untrained? get the puppy. are you getting
your pup from a reputable breeder?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also would pass. The description of Ezra, off the owners site, describes her as a dog you don't want to walk into their house with.

She may be a nice dog, but do you really want the possible liability of a dog like this? Besides her not liking kids, (big red flag and no!), what about other people that may visit/enter your home? If she nailed someone, you could lose everything you own.

I'd pass.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

There is no chance I would recommend this dog to you even if you weren't having a child move in. As a first time GSD owner, I would steer clear of any PPD trained dogs until you get your feet wet by getting a young dog or puppy. You need to learn to train and take a dog through some bitework at a club so you understand what it's about before you have an adult PPD in your house.

JMHO


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> don't get the child aggressive dog. you have a 5 yr old child coming
> to live with you and you have no experience with dogs. what sense
> does it make to get a child aggressive dog with a 5 year old coming to live
> you and don't have any dog experience. don't do it. i wouldn't get
> ...


I do have dog experience and have trained many dogs (just not specifically GSDs) with behavior problems. My breeder is reputable I have visited her property and met all of her dogs. I also talk with her on an almost daily basis. Ezra IS trained and will not savagely break through a door to get to a child. I spoke to my breeder and she said that she just doesn't like kids to come near her (gives warning barks and backs away from them). I read back through some old emails and I had misinterpreted her behavior. I have six months to play with where we can TRY a few short (on-leash, pinch collar) introductions (from across a space). 

I didn't mean to make myself look like I didn't know what I was doing. 


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

Let's say this- 

the child in this scenario will be a tenant (with her mother) and there is nothing set in stone with them yet (they might not even end up moving in). I will have the option to return Ezra to the breeder if it doesn't work out. 



I have worked with kids and animals for over 8 years and would NEVER put a kid in immediate danger, as in I know when it's time to pull the plug on the whole thing. 

Let's just see. 


My big push for PPD is that I was attacked by a homeless man at a gas station a few years back and never really recovered. My boyfriend and I are CHL holders and really big into self defense. My boyfriend also had all his firearms stolen in a break in. 


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

They know about Ezra and said they had backup plans just in case 


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have had dozens of German Shepherds, years of experience. 

I have a couple of 7 year old nieces spend the night at my house a couple of times a year. Most of the dogs are kenneled, most of the time that they are there. 

I wouldn't go near this dog with a pole. Sorry. Kids are great, but they are also unpredictable, they sometimes do exactly what you tell them not to do. And dogs are attractive nuisances when it comes to kids. 

When I go to take care of the critters, when my sister's kids are there. I crate Babsy -- usually, and Jenna and Karma are in their pen/area behind the sofa. I tell them to stay away from the dogs. 

Usually, they listen. But I came in about a year ago, and Analisa was over there petting Jenna. Jenna is not afraid of kids. But I like to supervise interactions. You can do this when you don't have kids 24/7. When you do have kids 24/7 you do things like, sleep -- ok, crate the dog at night; go to the bathroom -- ok, take the dog with you; take a shower -- crate the dog. Answer the door, crate the dog. Something's burning on the stove, bring her with you. Straigning the spaghetti, dog is crated or with you. 

There are just so many possibilities. You want to be on top of any dog when you have a kid in the house. But a dog that is already showing a problem with children -- it is just too much to risk.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

madis said:


> Let's say this-
> 
> the child in this scenario will be a tenant (with her mother) and there is nothing set in stone with them yet (they might not even end up moving in). I will have the option to return Ezra to the breeder if it doesn't work out.
> 
> ...



A GSD that tries to get at kids or is afraid of kids IS not a good candidate for ANY type of personal protection. It isn't good character. I don't give a **** what happened in her past. It isn't indicative of good character. 

I would keep looking. You want your PPD to NOT bite anyone that doesn't deserve it. This dog is a ticking time bomb. And you will be MORE liable than me or others with an ordinary dog, not specifically trained to bite people. If my dog decides a kid looks tasty or is scary and snaps and bites one of them, then it will be bad, very bad. If it is a dog trained in protection it is a lot worse. I don't trust other people. Not at all. If I know I have an adult and a child coming to live with me, I can't trust either with the dog. It will be constant stress. 

I can't tell you what to do, only that I wouldn't do it. No way in the world would I do it. A scaredy dog trained to bite is a ticking time-bomb.


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

@selzer Thank you, I trust you know what your talking about  

it really sucks when Ezra and I had such a strong connection upon meeting. Ill talk to my boyfriend about it. 


Just curious: what makes you say "ticking time bomb" PM me please  thanks!


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

If she goes at a child and bites him are you prepared to deal with the aftermath?
A disfigured face?
Emotional trauma ?
I would not do this if i were you, let her go to someone that is not new to the breed, and is very well prepared to deal with her issues. 
She may be a lovely dog but she does not sound like the right dog for you given the info you provided


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

when you said your new to the forum and GSD's i took that
as being inexperienced. your experience should tell you not
to get a child aggressive dog with a 5 yr old child coming
to live with you. good luck if you decide to get the dog.

were


madis said:


> I do have dog experience and have trained many dogs (just not specifically GSDs) with behavior problems. My breeder is reputable I have visited her property and met all of her dogs. I also talk with her on an almost daily basis. Ezra IS trained and will not savagely break through a door to get to a child. I spoke to my breeder and she said that she just doesn't like kids to come near her (gives warning barks and backs away from them). I read back through some old emails and I had misinterpreted her behavior. I have six months to play with where we can TRY a few short (on-leash, pinch collar) introductions (from across a space).
> 
> I didn't mean to make myself look like I didn't know what I was doing.
> 
> ...


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

madis said:


> it really sucks when Ezra and I had such a strong connection upon meeting. Ill talk to my boyfriend about it.


Why don't you get her evaluated by a 3rd person (trainer, behaviorist) before making a decision. Maybe she isn't as bad, maybe she is worse, maybe she is bad in the breeders home only. Of course, the child's safety is #1 if the child moves in with you. I would want it written in a contract that the breeder will take her back if she remains not so great with kids and the child moves in with you. And if she remains as reactive as the breeder says (after you have worked with her and the child is going to live with you), then I would think it would be better for the dog to return her to the breeder before she reacts, bites a child, and then gets put to sleep. I think if you take her for a trial run and the child ends up living with you, you will have to put your emotions aside and do what is best for everyone - both the child and dog (no matter how hard it is for you personally).


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

mspiker03 said:


> Why don't you get her evaluated by a 3rd person (trainer, behaviorist) before making a decision. Maybe she isn't as bad, maybe she is worse, maybe she is bad in the breeders home only. Of course, the child's safety is #1 if the child moves in with you. I would want it written in a contract that the breeder will take her back if she remains not so great with kids and the child moves in with you. And if she remains as reactive as the breeder says (after you have worked with her and the child is going to live with you), then I would think it would be better for the dog to return her to the breeder before she reacts, bites a child, and then gets put to sleep. I think if you take her for a trial run and the child ends up living with you, you will have to put your emotions aside and do what is best for everyone - both the child and dog (no matter how hard it is for you personally).


Thank you! This was my plan from day one. We are signing a contract that includes what will happen if we can't keep her. Emotions aside we will to the right thing.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

After managing a gsd who hated children for 8 years no way would i even consider another one just because we connected..not only is it not fair to the dog to be uprooted, but it also isnt fair to the child either.


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## belladonnalily (May 24, 2013)

Keep in mind adding both a young child and a young puppy (I'm sure by now you've read volumes on how different GSD puppies are from other breeds...landshark is an understatement with some!) is a HUGE undertaking that will change your lifestyle considerably. No matter how commited and responsible you are, taking a known problem dog at the same time is a lot....even for a person that has tons of experience and nothing else to do.

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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

It sounds like you have made up you mind about getting Ezra


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

madis said:


> Thank you! This was my plan from day one. We are signing a contract that includes what will happen if we can't keep her. Emotions aside we will to the right thing.


Well, I think no one here can accurately assess the dog whom we have never seen and no one knows the severity of the case (and so many things get lost in translation on the internet). That is why a 3rd party would be able to give you a good (and unbiased) idea of her temperament, if it is fixable (or not) and also the severity of it.

But, I really think you need to keep in mind, that if the dog is bad and reactive and you have a child coming, that giving back the dog to the breeder is the best option (for you, the dog and the child). I would think that potential liability of having a child aggressive dog (and a child living with you) should be in the back of your mind when making the ultimate decision (after her behavior is assessed).


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

You can all rest assured that we will not be adopting Ezra. 

Thank you guys for your help. It's tough to do what you know is right when your heart is so involved.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My male GSD was brought to the shelter because he wasn't good with kids and I didn't learn that until a couple months later. When I brought him home, my young nephew was there, the dog followed him everywhere. He adores kids, so I'm not sure what his previous owners saw, but I trust him 100 percent around kids. I'm not saying its the same in your situation, I am saying that dogs act differently with different people and you might never see what they see in the dog. At the same time, it can be a risk. If the shelter told me Midnite wasn't good with kids, I might have walked away.


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