# Drive and West German Working Line Breeder Questions - Ontario, Canada



## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

Hello all! 
New to the forum, I've been creeping around for a bit now and have already learned a lot!! 

I currently have a 5 year old GSD/Collie mix. We walk daily most days and he gets fed from food puzzles, snuffle mats, etc. We also typically have something we are working on together (at the moment I'm trying to teach him the basics of treibball so he's busy pushing doors closed with his nose haha). I've got a fenced yard for fetch and training games, we play searching games and he gets to run my parents acreage or on the trails a couple times a week. He's an active boy, but he's also a couch potato when it's time to relax and that's definitely important to me! 

I'd like to add a pup to the family and I'm thinking that a West German Working line with a lower drive may be the best fit for me. For those of you with these dogs, do you think my lifestyle would be a good fit? Are they able to relax when the time comes or is it a struggle to keep them mentally challenged?

My next question is... Where did you get your pups? Breeder recommendations in Ontario? I'm close to Windsor ON, so looking to keep it within 6 hrs because I'd like to visit the facility before deciding, although I did reach out to Wendelin. This will be my first dog from a breeder so I'm a little overwhelmed trying to find good breeders, there's so much information and things to look for!! 

Thanks in advance!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ask for medium drive. Balanced. With off switch. Wendelin can help you. I know a few dogs from her and they are all nice. I do not struggle to keep either of mine challenged. Even on busy days where I don't get to go out with them.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Here is an old thread that may help...
It doesn’t focus on any particular line, instead defines energy vs drive and what the author refers to as neurotic but i think hyperactive could also fit there as well.

An analogy:
My dad is an athlete and a coach... but also the most laid back, mellow and chill guy i know. I would say he’s an ambitious and determined person (think “drive”) and on the court he plays long and hard (think “energy”, stamina, proper outlet) but at home he is very content hanging out in the yard with a beer or on the couch watching tv... he’s not a busy body or always on the go (“off switch”). he also gets along with everyone despite not being incredibly social and is fun to be around (his individual personality).

he’s not working line or showline btw 😁

i find it’s more about balance/moderation and the right combination of energy, drive and personality...(and suitable outlets for that energy/drive).

despite what ppl say, i think more often than not, the highest drive dog in your average pet home is moderate at best.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I agree, Fodder. People mistake energy and drive. Low drive/ low energy is difficult to train. medium drive/medium energy is perfect for an active pet home. "off switch" is a key word for breeders telling them my dog needs to be able to chill. "Balanced" is another. Don't give me all prey and don't give me all aggression. Give me balanced so my dog isn't biting people and my dog isn't over the top chasing cats.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

YES! That makes so much more sense and is exactly what I've been trying to put into words. Drive is fine if it's not over the top and has an off switch. I've seen a lot of very "high-strung", anxious shepherds in my area and my biggest fear is ending up with a dog like that. I want something stable, with sound temperament that I can bond with the way I've bonded with my Whiskey boy. Thank you Fodder & Jax08!

Do you have any breeder suggestions other than Wendelin? Their dogs look beautiful, and from what I've heard I can't go wrong with them. But it's a far drive for me, something closer would make me feel much more comfortable as I can check out the facility easier and hopefully visit a couple of times before committing.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I like what the West German Working has to offer (I may be partial as that is what my foundation was for breeding). I have mixed my working line bitch, with show line sires. I like the results I am getting. Balanced with drives, can chill in the house, great work ethic (we train on sheep). My girls are social, without having to socialize (we dont 'play' with other dogs so much). I do make sure my girls are not always on the go, they learn to settle, and I think that is key. I see too many people think the dog needs stimulation constantly, and therefore, never learn how to settle on their own.


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

I'm getting mine from Von Rothhaus in Fordwich. You can check their website out. It's about a 3 and half hour drive for you. Her Google reviews and Facebook reviews were great. Give them a call (Dawn) was extremely helpful.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

vomlittlehaus said:


> I like what the West German Working has to offer (I may be partial as that is what my foundation was for breeding). I have mixed my working line bitch, with show line sires. I like the results I am getting. Balanced with drives, can chill in the house, great work ethic (we train on sheep). My girls are social, without having to socialize (we dont 'play' with other dogs so much). I do make sure my girls are not always on the go, they learn to settle, and I think that is key. I see too many people think the dog needs stimulation constantly, and therefore, never learn how to settle on their own.


That's a good point! They definitely learn what you teach. And I'd never thought of a mix of the two lines, that would probably actually be perfect for me. Thank you for your response!


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

AE316 said:


> I'm getting mine from Von Rothhaus in Fordwich. You can check their website out. It's about a 3 and half hour drive for you. Her Google reviews and Facebook reviews were great. Give them a call (Dawn) was extremely helpful.


That's too funny, I actually had their website open in a tab on my computer already! What made you choose them as your breeder? 

Has anyone else had experience with this breeder?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

AE316 said:


> I'm getting mine from Von Rothhaus in Fordwich. You can check their website out. It's about a 3 and half hour drive for you. Her Google reviews and Facebook reviews were great. Give them a call (Dawn) was extremely helpful.


Might want to read the fine print first.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

UnlimitedGSD


von Tighe Haus German Shepherd Dogs




www.unlimitedgsd.com









Fraserglen Kennels - Ontario German Shepherd Breeders


Fraserglen Kennels Reg’d has been breeding German Shepherds who are “ready” for over 25 years, offering German Shepherd puppies, studs, and females across Ontario & Canada.




fraserglenkennels.com









Foxfield K9 Services | German Shepherds | Importing | Ottawa Ontario


Foxfield K9 Services offers Custom Importing dogs for Police, Military, Sport, Detection & Search and Rescue (SAR). Breeders of Working German Shepherd Dogs.




www.foxfieldk9.com


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## AE316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Sabis mom said:


> Might want to read the fine print first.


What do you mean? I've read their website info. Something caught your attention?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sabis mom said:


> Might want to read the fine print first.


RE: Rothhaus

Wow. That's a lot of females. Doesn't look like they work their own dogs. Just buy and breed. 

And this....
"Puppies have 3 year health guarantee, as long as puppies are on Nu Vet Supplements (see below for info on Nu Vet) for the first yr."
"The Seller warrants that this puppy will be free of Hip/Elbow dysplasia until the puppy is 24 months old. Seller will extend this warranty to 36 months as long as the buyer keeps the puppy on the Nu Vet vitamins that the breeder has had the puppies on and supplied the seller with info. Puppies must remain in these vitamins for the at least the first year. "

Nuvets will NOT stop HD/ED and is unnecessary if the dog is on a good large breed puppy food. No reason to buy a supplement that disrupts that food nutrient balance so the breeder gets a kickback. OFA's can not be done before 24 months. Yuu can do prelims but why aren't they just doing the contract until 36 months anyways? Nothing is going to change between 24-36 months even with the supplement.

"X-rays must be taken with the dog NOT under sedation. " - Why?? the vet needs to be able to manipulate the dog to get proper alignment. It's easier sedated. In fact, the dog MUST be sedated for SV xrays.

"Conditions described as “Genetic Predispositions” are not passed from parents to offspring but are common throughout the entire breed. " HUH?? Exactly what do they think "genetic means" Genetic issues are genetic and often in that breeding pair.

"This puppy is being sold on a NON BREEDING contract, registered with CKC. " Where is the option to turn it to full registration if the dog is titled and proven breed worthy??

Just NO.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a pup out of Fraserglen and CarmsPack, not WGWL but DDR/Czech and I'm very happy with him so far. I have a thread going you should check out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you are in Windsor, maybe look in the Detroit MI area. Wildhaus is a great breeder. You just have to be creative to get him over the border. Or maybe by the time a puppy is available, this will be over.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

AE316 said:


> What do you mean? I've read their website info. Something caught your attention?


@Jax08 already summed it up. I have to go to work but will say this. I would not buy from anyone who imposed a supplement clause to maintain a health guarantee. Period.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> If you are in Windor, maybe look in the Detroit MI area. Wildhaus is a great breeder. You just have to be creative to get him over the border. Or maybe by the time a puppy is available, this will be over.


I'd definitely get a pup from Wildhaus. Is Lisa Clark still breeding?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs in Indiana



There is currently a young male available.

I thought she was in Michigan. Looks like Bloomington Indiana.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

David Winners said:


> I'd definitely get a pup from Wildhaus. Is Lisa Clark still breeding?


Lisa moved a few years ago.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

With the way the border is I think I'd rather stick to Ontario for now, but if things start to get better before I find my pup then I may expand my search to Michigan area. 

Fraserglen definitely looks like a good place to look into - I've read a lot about Carmspack dogs on this forum so if they are working with her that's awesome!


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

David Winners said:


> I have a pup out of Fraserglen and CarmsPack, not WGWL but DDR/Czech and I'm very happy with him so far. I have a thread going you should check out.


Can you point me in the right direction to find this thread? Still new to the forum, I think I'm missing something here haha


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

bchevs said:


> With the way the border is I think I'd rather stick to Ontario for now, but if things start to get better before I find my pup then I may expand my search to Michigan area.
> 
> Fraserglen definitely looks like a good place to look into - I've read a lot about Carmspack dogs on this forum so if they are working with her that's awesome!


Carmen and Sheena have been friends forever. I have a pup out of CarmsPack Gus and Elli Mae Vom Sucherquelle. I'm very impressed.

Here's a video from a couple days ago. The pup is Valor. 5.5 months.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

bchevs said:


> Can you point me in the right direction to find this thread? Still new to the forum, I think I'm missing something here haha











Carmspack puppy inbound!!!


Tentative name is Valor




www.germanshepherds.com


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why don't you contact Liz thru here








Kitchener-Waterloo German Shepherd Club


Kitchener-Waterloo German Shepherd Club. Отметки "Нравится": 861 · Обсуждают: 4. The K-W German Shepherd Club is dedicated to the German Shepherd Dog, promoting responsible GSD ownership, training...




www.facebook.com





She's pretty up on the breeders in the area and is training in IGP with a club. I feel we have a pretty narrow list of breeders here on this board and I know there are breeders in your area to avoid. Liz would have a handle on which ones.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

Thank you David! I'll definitely be following that one. The videos you post are great!

Jax08 I'll check that out! If I message that page does it reach out to her directly? Or I need to find her in the group? Is this a different Liz than the Lisa Clarke you had mentioned with Wildhaus? Thank you


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

bchevs said:


> Thank you David! I'll definitely be following that one. The videos you post are great!
> 
> Jax08 I'll check that out! If I message that page does it reach out to her directly? Or I need to find her in the group? Is this a different Liz than the Lisa Clarke you had mentioned with Wildhaus? Thank you


Liz is not Lisa Clark and Lisa Clark is not Wildhaus. just send a message and ask for Elisabeth.


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## bchevs (Oct 15, 2020)

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification!


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## Hexenrudel (Feb 26, 2018)

I'm a breeder of working-line German Shepherd Dogs. I own just a few dogs and breed not more than 1 to 2 litters a year. I know my dogs inside and out because they follow me everywhere and I train them for competitions. My puppies get outstanding care. Not matter which breeder you choose, my Instagram page and website might be really helpful.

[Links Removed...feel free to exchange via PM]
- Mod


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