# Timid problems and hardwired protecting instinct in the GSD



## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

Basically, my dog has been timid ever since a pup. She's 3 now BUT you would think a purebred German Shepherd (whether timid or not) would have NATURAL instinct to protect their owners from harm. It's just hardwired in these breeds. 
Well, today, I got in an argument with an EX boyfriend that was over my house, he grabbed me hard and hit me and I was screaming. My dog, didn't even bark at him or try to nip him to get him to stop. She just sat there watching... I'm very upset she didn't do anything, and I'm surprised. 

She also doesn't have an aloof personality that shepherds should have. She'll bark when strangers are in the house, run from them when they try to pet her, but once she gets comfortable, she'll then look for attention from them. If I wanted a dog like that I would of gotten a Labrador. All of the shepherds I grew up with, had no protection training and were just naturally obedient, reserved with strangers and would protect our family if threatened. 

The breeder that I got her from was obviously looking to make quick cash she was $200 and I just saw her as a rescued dog because she was covered in fleas and she had an ear infection. 
I don't know what to do but I definitely don't feel comfortable at home alone anymore after seeing that she didn't protect me. 

When she was a puppy, I did take her to a Schutzhund class and they had told me that she didn't have the right personality to be a protection dog. I was kinda iffy about it because she was only 16 weeks old. The trainer did tell me however, that she would probably protect me in a situation when threatened, that it'll just naturally "come" to her.
That day came today and she just wasn't feeling it! 

I know that a trained dog can't protect you unless they were trained to do so, however GSD's are just born to protect their owners trained or not...right?

I need some advice about her behavior and how I could help make her become more confident. :help: I believe it's never to late to teach an old dog new tricks.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Irresponsible breeders/BYB's don't pay attention to those instincts in their dogs. They don't know what there is to their dogs because they don't know how to read those things in a dog. 
Those are her genetics at play. Training would not fix that either.


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## Sir Bear (Mar 9, 2012)

I am by no means an expert... but it seems you can't really expect any dog to have the qualities that GSDs are "supposed" to have unless you purchase from an amazing breeder that can match you well. Even then, sometimes its a crap-shoot...you get the traits that you get. 


If you need that type of protection, buy a gun; the most I would expect of any dog is to look intimidating; which is a very valuable quality. I think offensive action towards a threat is more of a learned skill in most dogs. But just my two cents. 

I'm so sorry you even have reason to start this thread though...men that hit women have no dignity.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

yep, definitely a product of genetics. i wouldn't expect a fearful shy dog to protect me or even come forward at non threats. some fearful dogs might come forward and look like they are protecting but are really doing it out of fear to get the thing or person that they think is a threat, its not protecting you but itself. i think some people mistake that. since you have a fearful shy dog. if i had a choice i would rather have a shy fearful dog not react, since some of them react and are unpredictable to non threats. you didn't get a stable solid dog so i wouldn't expect her to protect you. and i certainly wouldn;t teach her to protect you since she is lacking in nerve. looks like its your job to protect her and yourself. no, its not the way a stable gsd should be, but there are many gsd's out there like yours unfortunatly. don't expect this from her, except her for what she is.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Um. . . your dog aside, it's really _really_ disturbing that your boyfriend grabbed you and hit you. Have you called the police? Are you working on a plan to get out? Do you need help?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

If I'm not mistaken there has been threads on here before and the general idea is that if a dog is not trained to protect most won't.....You said it was an ex? How long did your dog know him before this incident? Has he hit you before with your dog present? I don't think its a stranger coming into your house and this is confusing for even a dog. Most people would say that their dog isn't going to intervene and they don't want them to when humans are arguing, because lets face it, humans argue and dogs don't always know what level thats on if its done repeatedly. You also stated that after a while she becomes friendly with strangers in the house....well after a while they aren't strangers anymore to her. If they are in her house and you let them in, then they must be okay. From what you said you knew your dog didn't qualify for schutzhund pretty early on, if they don't qualify at that young age, then now a couple years later is no different. There are lots of dogs that don't. I can understand that your upset, but the behaviors that you explained you don't like were probably reenforced by you as she grew up. How much training and socialization did she have? That is where I would start with her. Good Luck.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think your under the misconception that all gsd's will "protect" their persons. So not true.

It's actually very disturbing to me (1. that your BF did such a thing and 2. that your so disappointed in your dog.

Your first clue should have been when you paid 200$ , what did you think you were getting for 200? You don't have to go bankrupt finding a good dog, and it does sound more like you "rescued" her from a not so great breeder, but it sounds like you know that already. 

I'm sorry but from the way you talk about her in your post, maybe she'd be better off in another home where she's appreciated for what she is, not what you "think" she should be.

If you want a dog to protect you, buy one from someone who sells protection dogs and then pay to have it trained..

You will get out of a dog what you put into it.


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

Yikes, call the cops and get your ex arrested.
--glad you are ok
-- to build up her confidence..just to be a balanced dog, not a protector...have you tried regular classes? even agility?
-- dont be upset with her, you cant expect a insecure dog to jump in with something like that, she probably was more afraid then you were.


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## kateydog (Aug 1, 2012)

First let me say I am glad you are ok and I hope that boyfriend is in jail right now. 

A few things here. If the dog knew the ex and the ex knew the dog, it could have seen the ex as part of the pack, or perhaps even the leader of the pack. Dogs are much harsher with each other then people. If this is someone that was always around the house or lived with you, and yelled at you often? The dog could have seen it as "normal behavior".

As far as personality of ANY dog, the first 16 weeks are crucial for confidence. I am not saying you can't get past that, but it it going to take a lot of patience and hard work, praising, treats.

The GSD is probably the most protective dog genetically I have ever owned (this is my second). That said? You could take the best genetic lines and combine it with a traumatic "fear/socialization" period and get a dog that is timid or scared. My last dog was not the most expensive dog and was the most protective dog I have ever owned, especially of children (my niece LOVED her). My friend had two 3000 dollar dogs from Germany (litter mates) and the MASSIVE male was a gentle giant and followed the 70 pound female around. He was timid. This often happens when you get litter mates and people recommend against it. These dogs kept their "roles" their whole life. You can get past that by training them separate, walking them separate etc, but this is a LOT of work.

As far as the people who make videos saying a GSD won't protect you unless trained? That is false imo. Why? In the videos where they show the experiments? They use one handler and those dogs aren't theirs. A GSD won't protect random strangers unless it is trained, but they will often protect their owner without protection training.

I am NOT saying you didn't train it right etc. As you said the dog had fleas and a ear infection when you first got it. You CAN build up her confidence. It IS going to take awhile. It is wonderful that you gave her a good home, and as you said "rescued it". 

As far as desensitizing a dog?

This guy does a FANTASTIC job.






You have to be creative and most of all patient. It is easier to start young, but that doesn't mean you can't give that lovable companion of yours more confidence.

You are in my prayers and I hope that you have success in giving that girl some more confidence. I am sure she will not only be a happier dog, but you will have great joy in seeing her more confident.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

kindhearted said:


> I need some advice about her behavior and how I could help make her become more confident. :help: I believe it's never to late to teach an old dog new tricks.


You are right, it's never to late to teach an old dog new tricks. HOWEVER, what you are asking about isn't about tricks. If you were asking about helping your dog become more confident simply because it would be best for your dog and as your companion, that can be done with work. What you are wanting is beyond what your dog is wired for. IF you were able to train her where she would 'protect', it would be from a fear perspective, she would be unpredictable at best and worse case, become another dog bite statistic.

Yes, this is harsh...... it is what it is



JakodaCD OA said:


> I think your under the misconception that all gsd's will "protect" their persons. So not true.
> 
> It's actually very disturbing to me (1. that your BF did such a thing and 2. that your so disappointed in your dog.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## mamasalvo (Jan 17, 2012)

*Timid problems and hard wired protecting Instinct in the GSD*

First, I am sorry to hear of this attack. I hope you are ok. I am on my second shepherd and we got both to be pets and in between we had a flat nose retriever. I don't pretend to be experienced but I have had wonderful loyal dogs for over 35 years. They all had similar personalities and aimed to please. Husband is laid back pack leader but they have always obeyed us .
We rescued our current Sofi from a questionable breeder and she seems timid but I think more and more she just doesn't care too much beyond us.
Shepherds are very smart as you all know but I am getting caught up in a few comments about this dog and poor breeding and that's why she didn't defend.
I may be missing something here( apologies to this group of very knowledgable people that offer me so much insight) but do most of you really know what your dog would do in this situation? I for one hope to never find out.


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I'm sorry but from the way you talk about her in your post, maybe she'd be better off in another home where she's appreciated for what she is, not what you "think" she should be.


So you're saying I should just give her to a shelter for the way she behaves? I'm certainly not like half the people out there who give their dogs up because of a behavioral problem. I've had her since she was a pup, and I am VERY bonded with her. And I do as a matter of fact appreciate her. She has her flaws yes, not everyone is perfect I just thought maybe she would of stepped up and did something, that's all... I couldn't EVER give her away. H e l l, she even killed one of my beloved bunnies about a month ago who was 6 years old and was here BEFORE the dog. Did I give her away? No. I thought about it, yes, but I honestly couldn't ever do that to her. It's my job to take care of her for the rest of her life, that's the reason why I got her. Dogs aren't just disposable/replaceable, if anyone wants to get a dog, you'd better have the time and patience for them or else don't get one at all. 

Also, I'm not on here asking for advice on protection training... I'm asking for advice on what I can do to make her more confident.
I'm sorry but what you've just said has really offended me!


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

Emoore said:


> Um. . . your dog aside, it's really _really_ disturbing that your boyfriend grabbed you and hit you. Have you called the police? Are you working on a plan to get out? Do you need help?


Yes I got a restraining order on him and everything is fine now, thank you for asking I appreciate it


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

llombardo said:


> If I'm not mistaken there has been threads on here before and the general idea is that if a dog is not trained to protect most won't.....You said it was an ex? How long did your dog know him before this incident? Has he hit you before with your dog present? I don't think its a stranger coming into your house and this is confusing for even a dog. Most people would say that their dog isn't going to intervene and they don't want them to when humans are arguing, because lets face it, humans argue and dogs don't always know what level thats on if its done repeatedly. You also stated that after a while she becomes friendly with strangers in the house....well after a while they aren't strangers anymore to her. If they are in her house and you let them in, then they must be okay. From what you said you knew your dog didn't qualify for schutzhund pretty early on, if they don't qualify at that young age, then now a couple years later is no different. There are lots of dogs that don't. I can understand that your upset, but the behaviors that you explained you don't like were probably reenforced by you as she grew up. How much training and socialization did she have? That is where I would start with her. Good Luck.


I was with the guy for about 3 months so it wasn't even a long relationship, his true colors came out and ended up being a violent person. I work at home, so I'm obviously home a lot of the time. And if I'm with someone it's nice to get out of the house for a little while. He was only over at my house a handful of times, no more than 10 times honestly. Because we were always out doing something. So it's not like she spent quality time with him or anything. He wasn't a big fan of dogs either, he never gave her attention. She had a good amount of training and socialization as a pup, I took her to the dog parks, walked her around the neighborhood to socialize with people. Of course she was a cute puppy back then so everyone wanted to pet her. Now that she is an adult and when I'm walking her, no one wants to go near her.


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

iloveshepherds said:


> Yikes, call the cops and get your ex arrested.
> --glad you are ok
> -- to build up her confidence..just to be a balanced dog, not a protector...have you tried regular classes? even agility?
> -- dont be upset with her, you cant expect a insecure dog to jump in with something like that, she probably was more afraid then you were.


Got a restraining order against him everything is okay now, thank you  Yes that's what I'm looking for just to boost her confidence since I know she's not Schutzhund quality LOL. I think she would actually like agility, I'm doing some research for classes. Whenever I take her hiking in the woods, she always jumps over all the big logs with me, so she'd excel with all the hurdles involved in agility.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

sorry you were offended but you are the one who wrote



> She just sat there watching... I'm very upset she didn't do anything, and I'm surprised.
> 
> She also doesn't have an aloof personality that shepherds should have. She'll bark when strangers are in the house, run from them when they try to pet her, but once she gets comfortable, she'll then look for attention from them. If I wanted a dog like that I would of gotten a Labrador


Which made it sound like you were quite disappointed in her 'lack' of protecting you.

I did NOT say to give her to a shelter or dump her on the street, I said the above that you quoted me on since YOU sounded like it was 'her' fault she didn't do anything and you were 'mad' at her. 

I'm sure she knows your ex, and with her being timid/fearful she most likely is not going to protect you physically, she is going to protect herself first.

Sometimes you have to accept dogs for what they are and learn to deal with their quirks/behaviors, you can also just work on socializing her more and yes it's up to you to protect her vs her protect you. There aren't many dogs that will protect their owners without training for it, they are about self preservation. 

And it's a good thing you got a restraining order on the x BF.


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

kateydog said:


> First let me say I am glad you are ok and I hope that boyfriend is in jail right now.
> 
> A few things here. If the dog knew the ex and the ex knew the dog, it could have seen the ex as part of the pack, or perhaps even the leader of the pack. Dogs are much harsher with each other then people. If this is someone that was always around the house or lived with you, and yelled at you often? The dog could have seen it as "normal behavior".
> 
> ...


Everything is fine now, thanks I appreciate it  I mentioned above in one of the replies that the guy has only been over a handful of times, not more than 10 within 3 months, he never gave her attention (he wasn't a big fan of dogs) She would come over for attention but he never gave it to her so she just walked away pretty much.

I have a female yorkie who is 13 years old and is very dominant with the GSD and always keeps her in check for me..LOL. She is a very smart little yorkie.

I remember seeing a video on youtube it was a 6th grader doing an experiment of trained GSD's and ones that weren't trained to see if they would protect. If that's the same video you're talking about too. 
You're right about the one handler thing and that they wouldn't protect a stranger.
So that's what I figured, my dog is bonded with me and vice versa so that's why I thought she would of did something without protection training. 
And I accept that she'll never be Schutzhund quality and all I can do is make it my job to boost up her confidence. Thank you I appreciate it, she has a very good home and I couldn't ever just give her away, like someone in the thread mentioned to find her a new home and that I don't appreciate her...


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

Twyla said:


> You are right, it's never to late to teach an old dog new tricks. HOWEVER, what you are asking about isn't about tricks. If you were asking about helping your dog become more confident simply because it would be best for your dog and as your companion, that can be done with work. What you are wanting is beyond what your dog is wired for. IF you were able to train her where she would 'protect', it would be from a fear perspective, she would be unpredictable at best and worse case, become another dog bite statistic.
> 
> Yes, this is harsh...... it is what it is
> 
> ...


Thanks and yeah that's what I want to work towards, making her more confident not necessarily being a protection dog I know she wouldn't fit in that category.


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## kindhearted (Jun 25, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> sorry you were offended but you are the one who wrote
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to make it that I was disappointed or mad at her, I was surprised that she didn't do anything, that's all. I was explaining her personality traits too.
But when you said she would be better off in another home with someone to appreciate her...to me that's just like dumping her because she's not a perfect dog. I'm not into that and I couldn't ever just give her away because she has some flaws. I do accept her and I;m asking advice what I can do as her leader to bring out her confidence.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm not sure if there really is anything you can do to get her confidence up to the level she would need to act out protectively. She's a fearful dog genetically so she'll be intimidated by most things bigger than her. You can take her to class and just see what happens. Agility or obedience would be great. Just so that she can get that feeling from you that she's doing something amazing.

Sorry to hear about what happened but it is just naturally in the dog. My dog will try to split me up with my girlfriend (his mom) we've been together ever since we got him and he doesn't like it when we hug. Or if we're just playing around he has no problems trying to grab my arms in his mouth and pull me off. He is extremely obedient and knows that I am the boss, but in that situation he will still protect her from me. We find it cute and funny since we know he won't do anything bad, but it does make me feel good that if anyone else is messing with her and he's there there will be problems for the other person.

This really is a genetic thing, some have it and some don't. We think all GSDs have it because you only hear about the heroic ones that do something like that, you never really hear about the scared one in the house that allows the robbery to happen.


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## kateydog (Aug 1, 2012)

kindhearted said:


> Everything is fine now, thanks I appreciate it  I mentioned above in one of the replies that the guy has only been over a handful of times, not more than 10 within 3 months, he never gave her attention (he wasn't a big fan of dogs) She would come over for attention but he never gave it to her so she just walked away pretty much.
> 
> I have a female yorkie who is 13 years old and is very dominant with the GSD and always keeps her in check for me..LOL. She is a very smart little yorkie.
> 
> ...


That is good to hear. Don't let people get you down. People love this breed and that is why they are on this forum , so just ignore them if they come off as a little insensitive and I am sure it was all a misunderstanding. We are here because we absolutely LOVE our GSD's, and I am sure you love yours as well.

The whole Schutzhund thing? Yes that has to do with prey drive and genetics, but as you said your GSD killed a bunny. I don't think that is the issue (lack of drive). 

The thing to remember about Schutzhund is that breeders start EARLY preparing these dogs and I am not talking about post 8 weeks. Many people don't realize this, and think these dogs just come out of the womb Schutzhund ready. 

You can watch videos of good Schutzhund/Police breeders. They take cans with rocks in them and throw them near the puppies, they hang them upside down for short periods, they play loud musical and classical music. They use LCD tv's to get them used to distractions. Basically? They do a TON of things, BEFORE you get that expensive dog at 8 weeks. All of this adds up and I would say as long as the prey drive is there? Those things matter more. I am not saying breeding isn't important, but this is training that usually starts VERY early.

Before 16 weeks for instance. If a puppy has a bad experience, or fight with another dog it can affect them their whole life if you don't also have a ton of positive experiences.

If you look at protection dogs, they aren't exactly cuddly lovable social dogs with people either. They have a 4 foot ring of "don't get near my policeman, or I will bark my head off". They can settle down at home with "their pack", but when they are on the job? They are working. If you talk to a policeman K9 person they will tell you that if someone is running in the subway, because they are late? The dog (trained) will react and bark their head off, and want to chase the person. The bite is on a command, but they instill these dogs to follow the prey drive, and someone running by can easily set it off. They also don't discourage biting at an early age. A LOT of work goes into these dogs.

When you accept someone in the home and they are used to that person (even a few times) or if they met that person when they were little, during a socialization period, they will remember that person their entire life. 

So it was a very hard situation for any GSD to be in. Now if that person was a stranger and yelled/charged/hit you? Your dog may have acted completely different.

In the video I linked he has older dogs (GSD's), and before their protection training, he works very hard to desensitize them to things.

My new pup? Has a VERY high prey drive. She is freakin nuts lol. I wanted that type of dog though because I am a very active person and will be spending a ton of time with her. I am NOT encouraging biting though (she would do very well at Schutzhund), so training her at a later date would be very hard, if not impossible. 

Many people think German Shepherds are braver then other dogs. That is hogwash. They are curious more then anything else and cautious before they are sure of something. The thing that makes this breed special is versatility. They can do ANYTHING provided you start early enough. 

The bravest dog (and that can be just as bad)I ever had was a lab (dog I grew up with as a kid). Not saying it was a good protection dog. It would have jumped up and kissed someone as they robbed my house lol. But that dog probably would have charged a bear to play with it. It literally didn't care or fear anything. It climbed ladders, even when it had no way down (my dad was a carpenter and took her to work, and had to carry her down from the roof). It walked floor joists/roofs and had no fear of falling. No training whatsoever. That is just that breed (and why they aren't very versatile and make poor protection dogs).

My dad was terrified that it followed him up a ladder and would do these things, but it was a "work dog" during the day and LOVED it.

What am I saying and I am a bit long winded and I apologize. There is NOTHING wrong with the beautiful GSD you have. As someone else mentioned, agility would be fantastic. It is also awesome that you take her for nature hikes.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

kindhearted said:


> Thanks and yeah that's what I want to work towards, making her more confident not necessarily being a protection dog I know she wouldn't fit in that category.


Thanks for clarifying that, it really did sound different.

Along with the agility that others have mentioned, look into nose work as well. It can be done with classes or as I do with Woolf, on your own. You set the dog up for success, but the dog ultimately succeeds on his own - confidence boost.

Getting Started in Nose Work | Dog Star Daily

K9 NOSE WORK®

Nose Work 1 an Introduction to Nose Games

Harnessing the Power of Your Dog?s Nose: An Introduction to K9 Nose Work | Karen Pryor Clickertraining

If you find that you and she really enjoys it, there are competitions as well.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

no man should hit a woman, no woman should put up with this. if you haven't filed a complaint with your pd, you might get really hurt next time. 

our first gsd, mine and wife, was from an ok breeder. typical american show lines from the early eighties. only training was basic obedience. when my wife would go for walks i always noticed how strangers were kept at bay and gsd was between stranger and wife. growled once when stranger got to close for his liking and just enough to send stranger on his way. i can assure you this non trained in protection dog would have never allowed any one to hurt my wife. he was not timid, but was overly friendly with all unless they got to close. i would expect this from any gsd.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

to work on building confidence I like the suggestion of agility..I also think if YOU act confident it will rub off on her,,'feelings' travel down the leash..Don't coddle her, and if you have another dog or a friends dog that yours gets along with that is confident, that can help build confidence as well, by walking them together for instance.

I wouldn't put her in situations that will overly stress her out, but getting out there in the real world , maybe take her for a walk in a quiet area that type of thing cant hurt.

She may never be a really confident dog, but you can always work on new things to atleast gain 'some' confidence.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

the first thing to do is except your dog for what she is and work on her limitations. you cannot change hard wiring, but you sure can take steps to help build confidence. some really come along well with the right training, with the wrong training things can get worse. maybe you could find a professional trainer to eval and help you learn how to work with her issues. trying to figure things out for yourself can get frustrating and may not get you to where you could go with an objective eye.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

kindhearted said:


> Now that she is an adult and when I'm walking her, no one wants to go near her.


I understand this part oh to well...its sad that because they are GSD's they are looked at differently I hope everything works out for you and your dog. Get her into the agility...it will be good for both of you


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i would hold off on the agility until you get an eval and learn to work with her. an agility setting can be over whelming for some shy dogs. you need to work up to that. you might be able to find a private trainer who can introduce agility privately build her and your confidence working the equipment. but, its important that you first learn how to handle her other issues as well. tracking is a better sport for now if you want to work her. a very laid back sport and less activity going on around you.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'd like to play out the scene the way YOU wanted it to play:

BF hits you, dog attacks BF.
BF either retaliates, and hurts dog with baseball bat or something else.
Authorities take your dog, thinking it could be aggressive.
BF will make sure you never see dog again.

I say hug your dog, and congratulate him for having such good judgement to let the humans work out their own problems.

Now that you have BF out, you can continue to enjoy the unconditional love, and affection that ONLY your dog could give you.


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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> I'd like to play out the scene the way YOU wanted it to play:
> 
> BF hits you, dog attacks BF.
> BF either retaliates, and hurts dog with baseball bat or something else.
> ...


 
Yes, my thoughts exactly.


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## GSD2 (Jan 27, 2012)

kindhearted said:


> Basically,  She just sat there watching... I'm very upset she didn't do anything, and I'm surprised.


On a forum or on the internet in general, it can be difficult to convey what you are feeling, I imagine you were still pretty upset when you posted, but reading this sentence it did sound very much like you were upset and disappointed in your dog. That is what I thought you meant, as well. No need to feel offended by the poster that suggusted you find a home that will apprieciate him, as you have assured us that you do appriciate and love your dog.

I'm glad BF is gone and that you and your dog are ok.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

some GDS's are protective and some aren't. if you want a protective
dog i suggest you by from a reputable breeder and train with a
professional in the arena you want.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

This sounds like the second GSD I got. Was fearful as a very young pup, which turned into a sharp/shy totally aggressive dog that could never be trusted. You can work with the dog, but a genetic fault is a genetic fault. 

As far as a GSD 'naturally' protecting a family member from another family member... it can and does happen. My first GSD (which, BTW I paid $325 for) DID protect me from a violent ex-spouse. He stood in front of me (between me and my ex) and barked and bared teeth (no hackles) when yelling. When they moved a step closer, my male took another step forward also and threatened more. Then he got to the point that my ex could NOT touch me while I was sleeping. Jerk got bit reaching for me while I was asleep. This wasn't an "aggressive" dog, either. He was extremely smart, and very protective. I do believe he'd have died to keep me and my kids safe. So, yes, with a good temperament and good genetics a confident GSD can make the decision to intervene (even with other family members) to protect their handler. It is what I'd expect from a well bred dog. There are some smaller breeders out there who don't charge you $1000 for a decent dog... BUT.. they are few and far between. However, the last GSD I bought (not my new pup) was expensive, from imported parents and was a mental mess. Weak head, poor decision making, and attacked randomly without any warning at all. She was about $1200. 

If you want to make *sure* you'll be protected, then an already trained adult would be good (but expensive), or a pup that you send to be trained (will be expensive). A shy/fearful pup (I'm talking at 8 weeks, even) is a bright red flag. Please get some serious trainer help to keep this dog from being a fear biter. I'm glad you're OK. Having gone through a similar situation I know how traumatic it can be. Oh, my dog paid the ultimate price for protecting me, too. My ex took him behind my back and lied to a hick-ville shelter about him attacking children (which never happened!) and had him put down. People can be absolutely evil and vindictive. So in all reality, he really did give his life to protect mine.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

thank god you filed a police report you seem tough you dont need a gsd to protect you lol you met a scum bag and tossed him out of your life quick.

now hes got a nice record also for any stupid things he trys in the future


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I understand what you are trying to say here.

You were in trouble, potentially scared for your life, and you wanted your dog to help you. It's a natural feeling, one I have felt before. If I were in true danger, perhaps about to die or get seriously hurt, I would really love for my dog to come to my aid. I would put my life at risk to protect Hunter, and I hope and feel he would do the same for me. We are a partnership, best friends and working partners. The protectiveness, the hardness, the working temperament, what the German Shepherd was bred for - I love it all.

You see the breed standard for the German Shepherd: aloof, naturally protective of family and home, obedient, etc etc... This is part of why you love the breed. I think it's part of why we all love the breed. This is what you wanted. It's okay to feel this way.

Unfortunately, she simply may not have it in her. That doesn't make her any less of a dog, and it doesn't make her a bad or unworthy dog, but if this is reality you'll have to accept it. You can better her, help build her confidence, try to do obedience training - but the dogs either have it or they don't. Most of them won't know what to do unless they are taught, even if the drives and instincts are there! How do wolves learn how to hunt? The instinct is there, but they watch and learn from their pack. My cat for example had strong hunting instincts. He caught a mouse one day but couldn't kill it - didn't know what to do. Why? Because his mother never taught him how to successfully fulfill that instinct - locate, hunt, catch, kill, eat.

Genetics plays a huge role - we breed selectively for certain traits, so it you go with a "backyard" breeder that pays no mind to genetics or pedigrees - they aren't breeding for anything but looks or money. 

Take my boy for example. Hunter comes from a pedigree that promises strong defense drives in terms of genetics. I didn't learn this until recently, but now that I've been told by several people I respect I can see it. Before Hunter was even a year old, he protected me from someone outside. We had been doing our potty walk a little after midnight, we walked into the park and I allowed Hunter to sniff along the fence. He kept stopping and looking behind me, over and over. Finally I looked back to see a man following me with a hood up. He was getting quite close. I was following along the fence, far from the exit of the park. I got very scared fast, and Hunter read my anxiety somehow. Hunter stepped out of the shadows, He turned and began lunging/barking at the end of the leash. It was a hint of those defense drives from a genetic level - a shadow of what will be there when he fully matures and I work him in protection. The guy got startled, turned and ran. I then put Hunter into a sit and he was himself again, except he stayed very alert for the walk home. I loved him so much for what he did. I feel so safe with him now. He intimidates people, but I know he has *it* if push comes to shove. It is there, part of him, because of selective breeding.

What I am trying to say is; you cannot expect her to have those instinct and drives if she was not bred for it. I know that may be hard to hear in the wake of this event, but don't blame her. I'm sure you both love each other, but you can't light a fire that isn't there. She is a wonderful companion, and she'll be loyal to you until her last breath. If you want a dog with protective instincts, you'll have to find a dog bred for it. THEN, you'll need to shape that behaviour, those drives, that instinct by doing PSA, protection or Schutzhund training on a foundation of obedience.

Hope I offered some good advice, and hoping nobody attacks me for liking protective dogs. Haha.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

im pretty sure aggression/protection has been bred out of a lot breeds including gsds 

Thats why so many are so dull you punch their owner in the face they wont even know whats going on

Many breeders have done this on purpose

This is what society wants have you seen other threads? They want a gsd with the personality of a pug, did you guys read the thread where the mans dog found a purse dog in his house? 

it is time people just accept it. If you want a dog that has it in them to protect for real you need to get an older puppy that has already been tested by a professional. '

German shepherds havent been affected as bad as rotties and dobies because we still have some good lines out there, well lots of good dogs and lines out there producing great personal protection and police dogs. BUt this doesnt mean you can just go to a byb or just any breeder. Most breeders here have dogs that had it bred out of them.

I just met a dobie breeder of german bred dobes. I asked her what the diff between the american bred and german bred oens. SHe told me "not much" German bred ones are suppose to have more "aggression" But we breed that out of them "anyway"


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