# shepherd dont bark



## JLS55

I own an eight month old german shepherd. She barks at other dogs cats squerrels but not people I got her for a guard dog I really dont want her to bite but i need her to alert me of anyone coming on my property


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## Kittilicious

She's still a puppy... give her time!


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## TimberGSD2

Is she in the house?


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## ladylaw203

An 8month old female is a pup. Depending on the blood line she will be a pup for some time.give her time to mature


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## JLS55

no she stays in a fenced yard with a seven year old jack russell that wont bark at people either


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## carmspack

but that is a good thing . There is no need to bark at everything that moves . If that were the case it would loose its usefulness, like the boy that cried wolf , who got the response a couple of times and then that wore thin till he cried wolf and everyone was so sick and tired of being fooled when the real emergency happened nobody paid attention.
There is no threat , seems like she is discriminating and probably has good nerves -- (does she?) and that is good.

now your Jack Russell there is something seriously wrong JUST KIDDING.

Carmen


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## KZoppa

you got her to be a guard dog. First she is still a puppy and hasnt even come close to physical or mental maturity. Second, how can you expect her to alert if she's kept outside instead of inside where she can bond with the family and have a reason to guard? A dog who is allowed to bond with the family is more likely to alert when necessary. Also proper socialization is a big thing....


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## katieliz

she is still a very young dog. she does not live inside with you, is not developing a bond with you, does not and may not ever, living in your yard, feel the need to guard you or your property. so many people just do not understand that shepherds are not the kind of dog that does well or reaches full potential living "in the yard".


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## ladylaw203

Folks,with all due respect, a dog does NOT have to be kept inside to "bond" in order to show defensive behavior for the property. Most of my dogs are kenneled and trust me,walk onto the property and see what happens. A well bred German shepherd does this by genetics when the dog is mature. This is a pup


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## doggiedad

your dog is young and she stays in the yard.
what does she learn being in the yard?


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## doggiedad

some are protective some aren't.



ladylaw203 said:


> Folks,with all due respect, a dog does NOT have to be kept inside to "bond" in order to show defensive behavior for the property. Most of my dogs are kenneled and trust me,walk onto the property and see what happens.
> 
> >>>> A well bred German shepherd does this by genetics when the dog is mature. <<<<
> 
> This is a pup


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## PatternDayTrader

Because shes a puppy, she is assuming the behaviour of the older jack russel that dosent bark. 
Still, i dont think you need to worry, once shes a little older, i expect she will turn into the guard dog you are looking for.


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## ladylaw203

I am aware of the fact that not all are protective.that is why I used the terms well bred meaning it is genetic.the fact remains that the poster should not feel that the dog must be in the house to be effective. Just is not true
also this dog is young and rates of maturation vary


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## katieliz

and sending due respect back to you renee...i can only speak from my own experience of a long lifetime with these dogs. all the shepherds i've known who live in kennels barked and paced and spun more for entertainment or as habitual behaviors rather than to protect or guard. i can only share with others here what my observations have been, and that is that shepherds are family dogs who adjust and perform and develop the best when they live with their family, and usually adjust poorly to living outside or in a kennel. i know to every rule there are exceptions tho.

on another note, wishing you much safety throughout the new year, in your very difficult and dangerious job.


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## ladylaw203

And my knowledge is based on training police service dogs,breeding and importing for over twenty five years. My dogs do not exhibit bizarre unstable behaviors in a kennel. If dogs had to be house pets in order to bond with a handler and be protective a lot of vendors would have a problem. I fly dogs in from Europe and after a brief acclimation start training. A dog bonds to whomever feeds it and if bred with the proper temperament becomes protective of its environment.
And again,the OP's dog is a pup. And no they do not do best as a housedog. Sport dogs,police dogs etc live in kennels when they are not working and perform just fine.my working dogs stay outside to keep acclimated to the temperature not the AC unit and have down time


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## JLS55

thanks to all for your responces to my post. my dog is of a working bloodline but 3 or 4 generations back from being imported (not the show dogs bloodline) She has some drive likes to play ball likes to work with the sleeve, but she is not the kind of dog that i would call High Drive .


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## msvette2u

ladylaw203 said:


> Folks,with all due respect, a dog does NOT have to be kept inside to "bond" in order to show defensive behavior for the property. Most of my dogs are kenneled and trust me,walk onto the property and see what happens. A well bred German shepherd does this by genetics when the dog is mature. This is a pup


The problem is...unless this guy is training the dog, she doesn't even know the people in the house she's "supposed" to be protecting. Maybe it'll work but maybe not. Then again maybe she's not getting socialization either, and will turn into a fear biter as she matures.


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## CeCe

There is a huge difference between having a working dog, who is stimulated, trained, and exercised throughout the day in a kennel and a guard dog who is just stuck in the yard.


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## msvette2u

CeCe said:


> There is a huge difference between having a working dog, who is stimulated, trained, and exercised throughout the day in a kennel and a guard dog who is just stuck in the yard.


And left to grow up there


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## ladylaw203

You know some of you folks must have ESP. You are accusing this poor guy of leaving this dog to languish without stimulation,socialization etc. 
I did not get that from him.


(((((I own an eight month old german shepherd. She barks at other dogs cats squerrels but not people I got her for a guard dog I really dont want her to bite but i need her to alert me of anyone coming on my property )))))))))) THIS is what he wrote. Did he say he never interacts with the dog?????? NO. 

Dogs do not need to know WHO to protect. good grief people,get a grip. Guess how many dogs in the world are happy and healthy in the yard? And guess what folks, dogs without formal protection training are normally going to do nothing but bark. That is what he wants. 
OP your dog is fine. She is immature. Sir if you have any questions feel free to contact me privately. 
geez,sorry guy


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## onyx'girl

My male is higher threshold, he isn't one to go off barking at every movement. I'd rather have him that way than barking constantly.
My females(mature and lower threshold) alert to everyone coming and going and it gets to be a pain to shush them.
Your puppy will alert when she deems the situation necessary. Or not. 
I wouldn't worry about it, because when she matures she'll be more balanced in the why's to bark vs the bark to bark. My male is approaching 3yrs and he is now becoming more 'reactive'....I don't mind it, because he is still thinking and judging before he starts the bark.


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## ladylaw203

CeCe said:


> There is a huge difference between having a working dog, who is stimulated, trained, and exercised throughout the day in a kennel and a guard dog who is just stuck in the yard.


 
Please. You have no earthly idea what this man does with his dog. Again,dogs all over the world in the yard. His dog is not a "guard" dog. He has the dog for the same reasons tons of other folks have them and that is for home protection and to offer a deterence by barking. 
Folks ask questions for help,not to be slammed by folks who do not have enough information to form a complete opinion nor are professional dog trainers. Give folks a break when they post so they feel welcome


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## ladylaw203

onyx'girl said:


> Your puppy will alert when she deems the situation necessary. Or not.
> I wouldn't worry about it, because when she matures she'll be more balanced in they why's to bark vs the bark to bark. My male is approaching 3yrs and he is now becoming more 'reactive'....I don't mind it, because he is still thinking and judging before he starts the bark.


 
Exaclty  I have a Czech male who is approaching two. He is just now maturing to the point of showing a little defense. The line matures slowly. I have let him be a pup. all 95 pounds of him. He is not fat.
His looks alone are intimidating


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## DFrost

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around GSD that won't bond if they live in a kennels. AS I recall, in my 23 years in the Military working Dog Program, those dogs spent more time in the kennel than with the handler. As I recall, we had some pretty darn good and pretty well "bonded" handler dog teams. Bonded enough to see tough warriors cry when their dog was injured or killed. Another 20 plus years with Police Service Dogs, where some live in the house and some live in a kennel has also shown me, there just isn't a difference. Edited to add; if your counting that's over 45 years. This year I am entering my last full year of police canine work. 

DFrost


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## onyx'girl

My male is also 1/2 Czech. He is just now coming into his maturity. And I let him be a pup too! Still do He is so stable temperament wise that corrections are far and few between. Karlo is almost the same size as yours, too Renee.


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## ladylaw203

nice looking boy!!!


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## ladylaw203

DFrost said:


> I'm still trying to wrap my mind around GSD that won't bond if they live in a kennels. AS I recall, in my 23 years in the Military working Dog Program, those dogs spent more time in the kennel than with the handler. As I recall, we had some pretty darn good and pretty well "bonded" handler dog teams. Bonded enough to see tough warriors cry when their dog was injured or killed. Another 20 plus years with Police Service Dogs, where some live in the house and some live in a kennel has also shown me, there just isn't a difference. Edited to add; if your counting that's over 45 years. This year I am entering my last full year of police canine work.
> 
> DFrost


Yep. You going to retire?


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## carmspack

repeating my messsage , I think it is rather refreshing to have a dog that seems stable enough not to bark at every person that goes by that is not a threat .
Remember when people had their dogs lazing on the front porch watching the world go by?
My dogs are basically outside - and I can tell you they do not pace, whine, spin or bark at leaves or sounds of the young guys next door, or the lawn service , or the guests at my other neighbours tour bus loads of visitors when they have an open-doors garden tour (well known display garden). Come up the drive -- you won't have to knock - you will be announced. The moment they see me dealing with the person the dogs settle , sit and are intensely interested , but not acting like hyper idiots. 
I think we have a pretty good thing going , I like them, they like me . They love to work , are easy to work with , are good ambassadors in the public . The bond is good , they are never confused with who they are with . Visitors will try to get them to do "obedient" sit , come , sit , whatever , dog simply won't and then they doubt the dog has training . All I need to do is very quietly ask the dog to do it - instant response . Because they are my dogs, not the visitors -- this is the bond. Can't be bribed . 
The young dog in question has enough dog spirit to know to chase and bark at little fuzzy prey animals -- I don't have any worries about the dog -- it is young , seems to be a stable dog able to discriminate .
Carmen


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## vomlittlehaus

I am wondering too, if the pup isnt taking cue from the older dog that doesnt bark. The dog doesnt need to bond with a person to want to protect the enclosure it is in. Most dogs are not protecting their people as much as they are defending their territory against intruders. Depending on the breeding, the pup could be very social. Could be slow to mature (as most GSD's are). Could be very confident and not feel threatened by anyone enough to bark.


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## chelle

JLS55 said:


> I own an eight month old german shepherd. She barks at other dogs cats squerrels but not people I got her for a guard dog *I really dont want her to bite but i need her to alert me of anyone coming on my property*


Your post got de-railed.

You got her to be a guard dog, so *what* are you doing to make her that? Pure hope isn't going to do it. 

I am sorry if this comes across as defensive, but too often, these threads come up and people say, gee I want a guard dog and they chain them up outside and want the dog's purpose to be barking when someone approaches. How not fair to the dog.  You don't want to work with the dog, train the dog, you just want his deep bark? Yet THEN, without training, you want him to have the instant off switch that he won't bite?

Not realistic in my very novice mind.


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## ladylaw203

chelle said:


> Your post got de-railed.
> 
> You got her to be a guard dog, so *what* are you doing to make her that? Pure hope isn't going to do it.
> 
> I am sorry if this comes across as defensive, but too often, these threads come up and people say, gee I want a guard dog and they chain them up outside and want the dog's purpose to be barking when someone approaches. How not fair to the dog.  You don't want to work with the dog, train the dog, you just want his deep bark? Yet THEN, without training, you want him to have the instant off switch that he won't bite?
> 
> Not realistic in my very novice mind.


 
Did he say the dog was chained???????????????????

Good grief. And you are wrong. A well bred german shepherd will normally bark. They do not have to be trained to do that. And the average person's dog is not going to bite someone without training. Might nip/fear bite if other options are not available but folks who think their house pet is going to fully engage someone are wrong
Enough of slamming this guy. If folks cannot post logical comments,let it go. This is ridiculous


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## DFrost

ladylaw203 said:


> Yep. You going to retire?


Yes ma'am. I think my "fun meter" is about pegged out. ha ha

DFrost


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## ladylaw203

Hahaha. Well I will eventually retire for the second time:crazy:


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## doggiedad

there's well bred dogs that aren't protective. i thinktraining has a lot to do with bringing out the protectiveside and not bringing out the protective side.


ladylaw203 said:


> I am aware of the fact that not all are protective.that is why I used the terms >>>>well bred meaning it is genetic.


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## ladylaw203

Dogs do not have to be trained in order to bark at a stranger.my labs and Goldens do it. If one wants more than that,training is necessary. Even prey only dogs bark.


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## abakerrr

Its always refreshing to see the occasional response from those of you with some credibility and common sense.


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## Wolfgeist

My personal opinion is that dogs do not belong outside and separate from the family. After years of research and experience with wild canines and wolves, I strongly believe dogs (like their ancestors; the wolf) are pack animals that thrive indoors with the family.

The best 'guard dog' is the one that sleeps at the foot of your bed, watches over and plays with your children during the day, and eats his own meal at the other side of the room while the family sits down to eat. That is the dog that will die to protect you and your home.

The outdoor dog will defend it's territory because that is all it has and knows.


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## ladylaw203

I hate to burst your bubble but our police dogs and military dogs work just fine with regard to handler protection living in a kennel. Also the average house dog without training would haul it if truly confronted by someone serious.
Our patrol dogs engage a human because of extensive training in which they always win. They are taught proper grips,muzzle fighting etc. To say that a dog will not perform properly without being a house dog is ludicrous


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## Josie/Zeus

Koda is 9.5 months old and still won't bark, he does bark at our cat, but it's play bark. He does not bark during our PSA training either.

I'm sure our dogs will bark and protect when the right time comes, they are still puppies.


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## ladylaw203

Yep..still a pup. Once he starts throwing a leg up you will see a difference


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## Wolfgeist

ladylaw203 said:


> I hate to burst your bubble


You're not bursting my bubble. I still disagree with you entirely, regardless of what you say. I will not budge on my opinion on this, I have experienced and seen far too much.


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## msvette2u

I think what people are saying here is that you can't get a puppy, leave it in the yard and expect it to "know" somehow, instinctively(???) what to do when someone comes in the yard uninvited. 

And LL is right, we don't know the extent of this person's training and interacting with their dog. 
It is a general rule that a dog kept inside with it's people will bond better than a dog left outside all day and night and not worked with. If this dog is being worked with to the extent military dogs are worked (which is all their handler does, _all day_) then yes, it's bonded to it's handler/owner and will protect.

But dogs don't just know that if not worked with daily, but only left in a yard and expected to bark at appropriate things.


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## Wolfgeist

msvette2u said:


> I think what people are saying here is that you can't get a puppy, leave it in the yard and expect it to "know" somehow, instinctively(???) what to do when someone comes in the yard uninvited. .


That is the bottom line. If you want a guard dog, train in Schutzhund.


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## onyx'girl

SchH is a sport, it isn't personal protection training. This poster put the question in this forum for a reason.


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## ladylaw203

Wild Wolf said:


> You're not bursting my bubble. I still disagree with you entirely, regardless of what you say.
> 
> 
> And how many patrol dogs have you trained and handled on the street to give you this expertise in handler protection?


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## ladylaw203

Wild Wolf said:


> That is the bottom line. If you want a guard dog, train in Schutzhund.



Again theOP does not want a bite dog.


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## Wolfgeist

ladylaw203 said:


> Wild Wolf said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not bursting my bubble. I still disagree with you entirely, regardless of what you say.
> 
> 
> And how many patrol dogs have you trained and handled on the street to give you this expertise in handler protection?
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently not as many as you, almighty dog handler. How dare I claim to know anything in your omniscient presence.
> 
> My opinion is as follows:
> 
> Based on my extensive knowledge of in-depth canine behaviour the OP's dog will not be a good guard dog as an outside dog, especially if the OP doesn't interact with the dog enough. In my opinion, an outside dog is a waste of a dog. I would tell the OP to bring the dog inside and make it a part of his family and life.
> 
> Again, that is just my opinion. You post asking for advice on a forum, you get it.
> 
> That's all I have to contribute, I'm not looking in this thread anymore.
Click to expand...


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## DFrost

Wild Wolf says: "Apparently not as many as you, almighty dog handler. How dare I claim to know anything in your omniscient presence."

My opinion is as follows: 

Based on my extensive knowledge of in-depth canine behaviour the OP's dog will not be a good guard dog as an outside dog, especially if the OP doesn't interact with the dog enough. In my opinion, an outside dog is a waste of a dog. I would tell the OP to bring the dog inside and make it a part of his family and life."



Other than the uncalled for rudeness, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Opinions, are in fact, the basis of discussion forums such as this. A poster in this thread, asking for your experiences in an area you are giving advice is also fair. The statement: "Based on my extensive knowledge of in-depth canine behaviour" isn't really a explanation of experiences. I'm in disagreement with your comments and I've trained literally thousands of military and police working dogs over the past 45 years. What you say has not been my experience over many dogs and many years. Not pets or sport mind you, but dogs used on a near daily basis performing apprehensions, protecting their handlers and many other tasks. I too would like to know your specific experiences relative "guard" or protection dogs. Your comment about schutzhund alone, would make me question your experience level in protection dogs. That of course is my opinion.

DFrost


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## ladylaw203

Since I have been training,handling,teaching seminars and certifying police service dogs for twenty five years I am also an almighty dog trainer. Your sarcasm is not welcomed here and any more will be edited


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## ladylaw203

Ditto what dfrost said.


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## katieliz

can the OP post again please and tell us whether or not you're an experienced trainer with a well bred working line dog, with a kennel in your yard where your dog lives and where you interact and train with the dog every day, several times a day...

or whether you are just an average guy who's gotten a dog whose background you know not much about and wants the dog to just "live in the yard" with the terrier, where you feed and water them daily and want them there to alert you to anyone on your property.

please post more about exactly what your circumstances are so we don't have to spend time debating who has esp.

having spent a fair amount of time in the law enforcement "family", it's refreshing to see the old boys' network is still alive and well, lolol...

ps...renee, you'll be editing your own sarcasm as well, right? just askin' in a respectful and friendly way...


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## ladylaw203

I was not being sarcastic. I meant what I said. If someone is claiming knowledge with regard to patrol and protection dogs one should be willing to advise what expertise one has in that field as frost and I did. 
I think a lot of unfair assumptions have been made regarding the OP and I do not think that should be done
The old boy network as you so sarcastically put it has nothing to do with the fact that frost and I have have a lot of experience in this field. We do not know everything but what we know we have learned by years on the leash in the real world


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## onyx'girl

And another new member off the board


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## katieliz

yup jane, there goes another one. 

renee, and this is a very serious question...do you not see where the sarcasm and attitude on this thread began? do you not see how regardless of whose scenario is based in reality, you've made assumptions just as others have (which is why i asked the long-gone OP for clarification). do you not see that rather than being sarcastic i was trying to inject a bit of humor into the thread?

if you go back and re-read you will see exactly when this thread got sarcastic and if you have an open mind you will also see where the my-way-or-the-highway part originated.

as a moderator (and as a member of the law enforcement family), you have an obligation to set an example. * imho.*


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## ladylaw203

I was never being sarcastic. I was being honest. Folks who have not trained and handled numbers of protection dogs do not have the expertise to be advising a poster that basically he is being cruel by having his dog in a yard and that dogs will not become protective unless they live in a house. That is not my way or the highway but just incorrect and downright silly. If folks do not care for honesty I cannot help it. This ends this portion of the thread. Back to logical advice for this person based on reality.if you would like to continue this write me privately


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## katieliz

again i say that an opinion based upon the experience of handling and training well bred protection dogs, and an opinion based upon the experience regarding the suitability of a family pet with an inexperienced owner living in a yard and expected to guard property, can both be valid depending upon what the reality of the situation is. before anyone can give an opinion on any of this the reality of the situation needs to be known. renee, if you know this person and do know the situation, i surely apologize and defer to your expertise. 

again i ask the op, if you are still here, please can you let us know what your situation is so we can offer logical advice. thanks.


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## ladylaw203

The term "guarding" property can mean many things. His original post indicated that he was interested in the dog basically being an alarm and a deterent. Neither of those can be accomplished by having a dog sleeping in the house if his desire is to monitor the perimeter. A german shepherd in the yard can act as a very valid deterrent. At least down here it certainly does. The main problem is that the dog is female and a pup. None of this is particularly germaine until the dog matures.
Are you familiar with DDR, CZECH, or German lines,working and otherwise? I ask because these lines are bred for the temperament and drive to accomplish the task that the OP is interested in by genetics


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## katieliz

gosh i see that the op is currently on the board and i sure wish they'd post their circumstances.

i was gonna send a pm later and tell you that i do think part of our differences is that my background is completely in american show lines and old, old german imports (troll, axel, bernd, bill), my grandfather was an importer and part of the loeb, mann, brackett triad, parents were breeders in the 50-60's pre-lance, i was horrified when i first ran out of the family bloodline and saw what had happened to asl's. back in the day there were only american breds and imports...i had never heard of ddr, czech, the division of german working -vs- german show lines. the difference in the dogs i saw (as a child/young adult), who were kept in a kennel and those who were house dogs was astounding, whether it was american dogs at mr. mann's or mr. brackett's or german dogs at my grampa's or mr. loeb's. all the dogs i've owned and known in my adult life have been the same, family dogs who seem very unhappy when separated from their people. but i do recognize there are working dogs and military dogs who live a very different kind of life and who are bred specifically for the job they do, or for sport. as you correctly guessed, i have no experience with those kinds of dogs. don't think i even knew they existed until i learned what little i know about them from other's on this board. i was pretty insulated with sons of sons of sons of my family bloodline until the last one died and my frozen semen was not viable.

my burning question tho i guess is how you know with such certainty that the op, whose original question was about their dog not barking, has the kind of shepherd you have experience with, as opposed to the kind i've experienced, which truthfully seems much more likely to me. i can't imagine the op having the well bred lines with the genetics to accomplish the task the op is interested in by genetics. seems way more likely to me that they've just got a pet quality shepherd that they want to leave in the yard to hopefull bark. maybe i'm making a huge misjudgement and if so, i also apologize to the op. maybe it's just a holiday and i've got too much time on my hands, lololol...


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## abakerrr

ladylaw203 said:


> The main problem is that the dog is female and a pup.


I'm open to learn a thing or two from this so i'm hoping you are willing to elaborate. In what ways do you feel that gender plays a role in this particular situation?


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## JakodaCD OA

okaaaaaay

To the OP,,I think your dog is young yet, give her time, and honestly you don't want a constant big mouth barker,,very annoying

Masi is 3.5, working lines, I have two aussies that are BIG MOUTHS, Masi has been and is, a very silent dog for the most part. She never is out barking at "nothing" like the aussies, the only time I hear a bark out of her is if someone is at the door. Or if she is outside and "maybe" someone is coming up my driveway. Is she leaving the barking to the aussies? Heck I don't know, Is she thinking "why bark at this it's nothing" again, heck I don't know. I can just say I'm glad she isn't a random barker and you will be to

If you have working lines (I think you said you did), they mature at a slower rate, she may be taking the cue from your other dog who is quiet? I dont know..but just give her time.

And just to add, while my dogs do live in my house, when I was much younger living at home, I had two gsd's that lived in kennels outside (parents dogs what can I say), believe me, no one got in our driveway without them alerting, and if you let them out, hey it was cool, they were wonderful dogs and just as 'bonded' to the family as my dogs today..

To many 'assumption' threads lately


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## JLS55

OK I guess I did not tell everyone enough about myself and my dog. Here goes I am not a pro trainer as i suppose most GSD owners aren't. But this is not my first GSD. 
she is my second both females the first I had back in the 90's she was a well bred dog from a very good kennel I also owned (together with my brother) the last pup born from the last litter out of GENTO.I'm sure most of you know or at least heard of him. CRIP (my presant dog) is not as well bred as the other dogs were yet from a working line. She is not left in the yard and just fed and watered. I have taught her to heel sit down and backup. I am teaching her to track.She loves to bite the sleeve.
the other dogs just started quicker than Crip and I was just wandering if there was anything i should be doing to encourage her to not trust everyone. Please look at my album I added. thanks Renee for your kind advice and everyone who commented


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## katieliz

oh yeah diane, guilty as charged, lolol...whenever i see someone posting about their dog living in their yard (not so much i think if they'd have said living in a kennel), i automatically *assume* several things that i probably shouldn't. like, i'd never assume that any of carmen's or renee's dogs were neglected, but i frankly admit i'm od'd on irresponsible animal owners who just want a dog who can fill *their* needs without ever considering what the dog's needs might be.


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## onyx'girl

JLS55, Crip is pretty. I personally would track her more, train her daily so the bond is there, and if she has to be a perimeter dog, then she will instinctively know if you have intruders on your land. Her nose will scent first, and I think she'll decipher who to react to and when to alert. 

I love my dogs to be with _me_, and the inside of my home is where the valuables are. So my dogs are inside with me when I am and outside when I am. Other than the chickens in the yard, outside is not something I need to be protected. And once my dogs alert, then I am there for them to give protection to them. They shouldn't be anything more than a deterrent/time to get the weapon. 
If there is a problem with Crip not barking after she is mature, get with a good PP or K9 trainer in your area to show her to alert, but don't pressure her, she's still young and needs to mature to do so naturally. Most females are much more protective of their space and I think she'll do what you need, but don't expect her to be your total security system.


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## chelle

ladylaw203 said:


> You know some of you folks must have ESP. You are accusing this poor guy of leaving this dog to languish without stimulation,socialization etc. *I did not get that from him.*
> 
> *Did he say he never interacts with the dog?????? NO.*


But you know, he never said that he DID interact much, either! He didn't say either way, so I think it makes both sides guilty of making assumptions that really can't be made.

I don't think the OP was "accused" of leaving the dog to languish.... now granted, I think it got off course too quickly with it being turned into a "should a dog be left to live outside" argument, which wasn't the issue, nor should not have become the issue.



ladylaw203 said:


> Please. *You have no earthly idea what this man does with his dog.* Again,dogs all over the world in the yard. His dog is not a "guard" dog. He has the dog for the same reasons tons of other folks have them and that is for home protection and to offer a deterence by barking. Folks ask questions for help,not to be slammed by folks who do not have enough information to form a complete opinion nor are professional dog trainers. Give folks a break when they post so they feel welcome


But you don't know either! 



ladylaw203 said:


> Did he say the dog was chained???????????????????
> 
> Good grief. And you are wrong. A well bred german shepherd will normally bark. They do not have to be trained to do that. And the average person's dog is not going to bite someone without training. *Might nip/fear bite* if other options are not available but folks who think their house pet is going to fully engage someone are wrong. Enough of slamming this guy. If folks cannot post logical comments,let it go. This is ridiculous


This was what you'd responded to me... No, he didn't say the dog was chained, nor did I. I was making a reference to others who post here with a similar desire - how to make my dog alert me, etc. I used the third person. 



ladylaw203 said:


> Dogs do not have to be trained in order to bark at a stranger.my labs and Goldens do it. *If one wants more than that,training is necessary.* Even prey only dogs bark.


I didn't mean to say that a dog has to be trained to bark. It seems inherent to most dogs... But my exact point, is if one wants more than that, training is necessary..... In the above quote, you say the dog "may nip/fear bite" and that was exactly what I meant earlier. That's *exactly* what he may do...



msvette2u said:


> I think what people are saying here is that you can't get a puppy, leave it in the yard and expect it to "know" somehow, instinctively(???) what to do when someone comes in the yard uninvited........ But dogs don't just know that if not worked with daily, but only left in a yard and expected to bark at appropriate things.


:thumbup:



katieliz said:


> ps...renee, you'll be editing your own sarcasm as well, right? just askin' in a respectful and friendly way...


Valid. Renee, I mean no disrespect, but you have come across rather harsh and sarcastic through this post. It seems like you've gotten defensive because of peoples' comments about outdoor dogs. I don't give a hoot if people have their dog(s) outdoors if they're properly provided for. That never should've become the issue. It was more about the OP's lack of info and some people's beliefs (mine included) that is *seemed* the OP just wanted to dog to know, through osmosis, to bark at people, but never bite. A fear-bite isn't any better in the eyes of AC than a full fledged attack bite. Or maybe I'm wrong... seems there's enough law enforcement on this post to tell me.


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## abakerrr

JakodaCD OA said:


> give her time, and honestly you don't want a constant big mouth barker


Well... In the event that your pup doesn't work out as a steller alarm dog and you still want a single-purpose 'constant big mouth barker', I'll sell cheap . My neighbors will gladly pay for any and all shipping costs.


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## ladylaw203

the other dogs just started quicker than Crip and I was just wandering if there was anything i should be doing to encourage her to not trust everyone


Well, many lines mature slower than others and the females can be rather immature and downright silly until they get through their first heat cycle at least.  And that first heat cycle can create some out of character behavior as well. It will pass

There is a fine line between socializing a dog and letting the dog think that everyone is their buddy. I would not allow friends to just come into the yard without you escorting them. The dog will notice the difference eventually. I do not allow folks to walk up and pet my dogs in public. I dont want the dog to automatically assume that all folks are good guys. I teach my dogs the friend word. When folks come into my home I tell the dog ok,friend. Then they can interact. They do come to know the difference. One of my males is 110lb Czech shepherd. Not fat,a moose like his younger half brother. I had only had this dog a few days and he was out on the property airing. A guy drove up the drive to sell something. Blitz immediately got inbetween myself and the vehicle. Did not bark,just stood there,stiff,with the "look". The guy almost passed out and shut his door. That dog would not have let him approach me. This is what I mean by genetics. This dog is not protection trained in any way. Narc dog but he went into protection mode and was still getting to know me. Give your girl time to mature. She will rise to the occassion


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## ladylaw203

chelle said:


> Valid. Renee, I mean no disrespect, but you have come across rather harsh and sarcastic through this post. It seems like you've gotten defensive because of peoples' comments about outdoor dogs. I don't give a hoot if people have their dog(s) outdoors if they're properly provided for. That never should've become the issue. It was more about the OP's lack of info and some people's beliefs (mine included) that is *seemed* the OP just wanted to dog to know, through osmosis, to bark at people, but never bite. A fear-bite isn't any better in the eyes of AC than a full fledged attack bite. Or maybe I'm wrong... seems there's enough law enforcement on this post to tell me.


 
I am not harsh. I am blunt and honest. I have spent 35years as a cop and most of that time as a supervisor,k9 officer and instructor. Yes I am blunt. 
The dog will bark when it is mature and a stable dog does not fear bite. Nervy,defensive dogs will. A solid dog does not need to be trained to not fear bite.


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## katieliz

just looked at the pictures...yes, she's a completely different kind of dog than i've had experience with. glad you've come back op, lots of experience on this board in many different kinds of shepherds. looked at that fourth picture and now i don't need to ask you if she digs out of boredom, lolol...does she (and the terrier) sleep in the house?


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## chelle

ladylaw203 said:


> I am not harsh. I am blunt and honest. I have spent 35years as a cop and most of that time as a supervisor,k9 officer and instructor. Yes I am blunt.
> The dog will bark when it is mature and a stable dog does not fear bite. Nervy,defensive dogs will. A solid dog does not need to be trained to not fear bite.


I like blunt. I like honest even better. I'm also a pretty big fan of sarcasm. 

I certainly don't disagree in the slightest when you say "a stable dog does not fear bite." But no one had any idea if this dog was stable/solid vs nervy/defensive. THAT was where my "concern" kicked in. 

I think I spend too much time reading all the aggression posts. _ "Oh no, what do I do now, my dog has bitten twenty two people.. oh no... I only wanted him to bark when people came in, oh how do I fix this??"_ Ok, that was dramaticized, but it's almost daily, reading these things! And what do we usually hear in response? Put the dog down. 

People start with good intentions and they backfire. The dog, in the end, suffers. THAT is where I'm coming from. Not all of us have the solid/stable dogs that you do and we have to work, and work hard, with constant diligence so they don't become a "sad post" on this forum.


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## katieliz

chelle, i love honest. i can be up for blunt. don't like sarcasm and passive aggressive much. intensely dislike unkindness. i, of course, spend way too much time in the urgent rescue section, and see way too much neglect and abandonment. we all have those personal reasons which color our view of the world.


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## JLS55

Wow I didnt mean to start WW3 between you folks .OK lets get the story straight. she is not negelated she walks on and off lease every day she does come in the house for periods of time every day. We play fetch. She bites the sleeve everyday. But like most of you I have to work,still i spend a lot of time with her. She is AKC regestered I only have the regerstation on her not the 5 generation pedigree, not sure i will ever breed her so I figured I could get it if and when I ever decide to breed her.I did see the papers on her parents. (Working blood not show blood.) Some of you sure dont know anything about jack russell terriers they dig thats what terrier means (ground) the JRT digs not the GSD thats what their bred for.I have had several thru my life they all dig because the JRT people wont let the AKC turn them into show dogs. I was trying to show everyone where Crip stays in the pic so no one will think she is tied to a tree in the rain with no socialization. and yes she is very bonded with me. We walk across the powerline unleased everyday.She will only get 30 or 40 feet ahead of me and she will stop and look back to check on me, everytime.When I turn around she runs wide open to my side. She doesn't bark constantly. if a coyote or a strange dog comes close she does bark.I guess I might have give some of you the wrong impression about her. and I am sorry. I should have explained myself better on my first post. Keep in mind this is the first forum of anykind I have ever joined so I am new to this. and by the way if she never barks she is still at home till death do us part.But I think she will she IS still a puppy. And to the guy who posted get a gun.I have several. I'm betting you do too. To sum this all up I hate to see people breed the working blood out of any kind of dog. We should perserve any breed to do what it was bred for. If she don't I will not breed her.


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## ladylaw203

You do not owe anyone an explanation. Some folks think the worst sometimes for various reasons without getting the facts straight. You have no need to apologize. 
Hang around,it gets better..................hahahahaha


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## onyx'girl

Well if you look at several different forums, yes learning is all good~and it does get better. I'm not so sure I'd be putting up a thread on breeding or you'll see another WW. We on this site are very protective of this breed....everyone, including ladylaw is about the success and representation of the breed no matter the forum or venue you do or do not train in. Please stick around and add to it!


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## JLS55

Oh I will surely stick around And all I meant about the breeding is i personally have no disire to breed Crip if she dosent come up to my standards I trully beleive their are too many puppy mills out there and I think Renee will agree with me on the AKC breeding the working blood out of all breeds. Am I right Renee? the other shepard i had in the 90s would bark if someone came up but never bit anyone Crip idont alert when a car pulls in the drive or people come to the door yet she will alert if any animals come in the yard. I just find this a little odd. and o yeah Strawberry the JRT is the only one of severial that i've had thru the years that didnt bark at people I'll post some more pics of Crip in a few days. Thanks for all advice. God Bless


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## chelle

JLS55 said:


> i personally have no disire to breed Crip if she dosent come up to *my *standards


Just out of curiousity, what would those standards be?

I do wish you the best, but it may be recommended that you can spell the name of the breed before you go try to breed it.

Best of luck and God Bless to you as well.


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## JakodaCD OA

glad you stuck around, Crip is beautiful, and YES I'm familiar with JRT's, I have a good friend who rescues/shows/judges/breeds them, her yard looks like several bombs went off )) 

Looks like Crip has a NICE BIG YARD, and your doing a good job with her, as renee posted you don't owe anyone an explanation

I still say, give her time, as I said, my wl girlie, isn't a real barker, but has in the last 6 months or so, started to more alert bark,,I have the aussies for that)


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## ladylaw203

He is the thing on the breeding. If you look on my profile,I will be breeding Karo and Gabbi in a few days. An outcross. On top of all of the titles I have thoroughly evaluated both dogs for the working drives and temperament I desire as well as pigment,structure,hips etc etc. Excellent pedigrees etc. My goal is to produce working pups. Even with titled ,trained,evaled dogs etc etc,there are NO guarantees until they hit the ground and we take a look. DNA does not alway cooperate and my advice to you is enjoy your dog but do a heck of a lot of research before you even think about breeding. There are plenty pets in the world and we breed with a goal in mind. Just FYI


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## JLS55

*re: Shepherd wont bark*

Hello again everyone. someone asked me to send them Crips pedigree as they may see some late maturing dogs in her bloodline. This is why I wrote about her being an AKC reg. dog I will probally never breed her. this is not why i got her. If she turns out to be a GREAT dog I will surely want a pup from her later. If I was into breeding I would have paid $2000 or $3000 for a really good bloodline.Which with my experance two good dogs do not always produce all good pups and a lot of the time none as good as the parents. My JRT is 7 years old and has been bred two times she produced some excellant pups. and the only reason I bred her the second time was because the man who owned the father of the pups lost his puppy at 7 months old from feeding Diamond Dog Food when it killed many dogs across the country. His second pup is an excellant squirrel dog. so I hope everyone can see that I dont have a puppy mill. by the way Chelle what is your standard for breeding? And what do you do with the pups that are not up to your standards. This is why so many dogs end up homeless lots of people can't handle a high drive dog. so what happens to them I think we all know the answer. And Crip is a very stable dog she loves everyone. She will never be manshy and bite out of fear.I'll keep everyone updated on her. And be looking for more pics.


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## chelle

JLS55 said:


> ..... *by the way Chelle what is your standard for breeding?* And what do you do with the pups that are not up to your standards. This is why so many dogs end up homeless lots of people can't handle a high drive dog. so what happens to them I think we all know the answer. And Crip is a very stable dog she loves everyone. She will never be manshy and bite out of fear.I'll keep everyone updated on her. And be looking for more pics.


I don't have a standard because I've never bred a dog. I didn't have the knowledge and long ago decided to leave that up to the pros.

There have been many posts here by folks who say, "I want to breed my girl because she's such a nice dog." Those are literally all the standards they have.


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## Dainerra

katieliz said:


> oh yeah diane, guilty as charged, lolol...whenever i see someone posting about their dog living in their yard (not so much i think if they'd have said living in a kennel), i automatically *assume* several things that i probably shouldn't. like, i'd never assume that any of carmen's or renee's dogs were neglected, but i frankly admit i'm od'd on irresponsible animal owners who just want a dog who can fill *their* needs without ever considering what the dog's needs might be.


OH I agree with you there. I hear every day about "I got a dog to guard my yard" It's a 7 week or younger pup and lives outside alone. The dog has zero human interaction, maybe gets fed once a day.

This is a true story that just happened today. My co-worker who lived behind our factory moved and a new guy moved into the trailer. He got a young pit female right after moving in. She is about 5 months old now and her job is to "guard" his house. We have numerous times untangled her chain because she climbs over the fence into the pasture next door. She doesn't have a collar, only a leash tied in a knot around her neck.
Last Friday she got loose during the day. Her owner was gone and she kept running into the highway. Another co-worker left him a note and took her home. Today, she brought Jesse back and said that the guy had never called her. At lunch, she went over and knocked on the door. He hadn't even noticed that the dog was gone. 

He won't rehome her though because she's going to be a great watchdog.

ETA: this is the usual scenario for 99% of the general public when it comes to dog living outside to "guard" the property


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## RocketDog

Why did she bring the dog back?! I would've contacted a rescue. If she left him a note, she did all she could.


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## onyx'girl

So sad for that pup! I hope he doesn't find her hanging by her chain. Of course she probably has food, shelter, water so AC can't do anything? But if he didn't notice her missing since last friday, she must not be fed daily?


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## Dainerra

we feed her most days.
She brought her back because she doesn't want a dog. There are pretty much only 2 places to take her around here - 

county animal control - open 3 days a week for a few hours. don't accept owner turn-ins or any animal that has a collar 

Humane Society - doesn't accept strays. Must sign affidavit that you own the dog. Has a 3 month waiting list and a $75 fee

Of course, the main reason that she brought the dog back is that I'm the only person who thinks that it's sad that the girl lives outside all alone. She only took the dog home because she was running into the highway. 

He dumps out 3 or 4 days of food at a time. Most people around here use the big "vacation feeders" or autofeeders that only need to be filled once a week or so.


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## ladylaw203

ETA: this is the usual scenario for 99% of the general public when it comes to dog living outside to "guard" the property 
**********************************************.****

Maybe it is where YOU live,but no, the majority of the public have pets in their yard and they are not treated that way. The OP is the norm. Wants a good dog as a companion and also a deterent to thieves.


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## onyx'girl

I would be afraid that someone would toss tainted meat, or shoot my dog that was a deterrent in the yard. So along with training to bark, I'd need to train to not take any food tossed over the fence. 
They can have the lawnmower and garden gnomes! I'd still rather have the dog in my home where the valuables are as the deterrent/alert. 
Anyone crazy enough to go into a yard with a 'guard dog' is crazy enough to break into the house if they get that far. And my dogs still wouldn't be safe from a crazy.


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## Dainerra

I do agree that it depends on where you live. But, I am not the only poster here who has that scenario as the norm where they live. I have lived in 3 states, but rural areas in most of them. Even in downtown Orlando, the "dog in yard = see only at feeding time" was the norm. Of course, in Orlando most people kept their dogs inside, though not always because they wanted to but "the neighbors complain if I leave him outside"

I was just pointing out why many posters instantly say "bring the dog in" Because in their experience, dogs that are purchased to guard the property are left outside to fend for themselves.


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## onyx'girl

In my area, there are no laws against chaining, so there are many dogs that live that way too. I'd much rather see them in a kennel or fenced outside than on a chain tied to a dog house for life. Rural areas don't have to worry about neighbors complaining either/too far and few between.


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## ladylaw203

around here, even a fluffy little dog in the yard is a deterent. those little yappers are loud and persistent. very easy to just go somewhere else with nothing in the yard.


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## onyx'girl

But if a dog is always barking then the warning becomes nothing? Better to have a dog that only barks when the need arises than one that goes off at every blowing leaf or squirrel. Crip will hopefully do the job and be rewarded for her work!


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## JLS55

Everyone please see my new pics.I think this might clear up some of the confusion about Crip.I live in a small town in Cherokee County Ga. the law in this county does not permit you to chain up a dog it has to be in a fence. And you know she don't bark at everything that moves. My consern all alone was why does she alert if an animal comes in the yard but don't if a stranger comes up.And thanks again Renee for your comments' I'm sure you see the true picture.


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## DFrost

JLS55 said:


> has to be in a fence. And you know she don't bark at everything that moves. My consern all alone was why does she alert if an animal comes in the yard but don't if a stranger comes up.


The dog views the animal as prey. It doesn't view the human as prey and need to be taught to bark if a human enters the yard. It can be done.

DFrost


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## ladylaw203

onyx'girl said:


> But if a dog is always barking then the warning becomes nothing? Better to have a dog that only barks when the need arises than one that goes off at every blowing leaf or squirrel. Crip will hopefully do the job and be rewarded for her work!


 
My entire kennel goes ape over the armadillo. There is a large difference in the bark for a critter and the bark for a human. One can tell the difference


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## Catu

What a discouraging thread. This is the reason why I try to keep out of the "pet threads" yet sometimes you can run but not hide.

So many thread about people wanting only a guard dog... therefore this first time poster writes in the PPD section and a lot of people who has never trained a dog in protection jumps to assume this dog only a tool.

So many threads about people leaving their dogs outside unatended... therefore the poster leaves the dog chained to a try 24 hours and only interacts with her to feed and water... if.

So many threads about people breeding their dogs... so the sole mention this dog is AKC registered means he wants to breed her.

No people, you have no right to assume anything based on what you have seen, read or dreamed about. Horrible stories and previous experiences are no excuses to be rude, this one poster do not deserves them and I feel ashamed he feels the need to apologize for posting a valid question in the right question. If someones is not sure about something, they can ask, instead of inventing stories in their heads.

Crip looks like a great loved pup, and she will bark given time.


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## cliffson1

Same Stuff Different Day,


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## sparra

cliffson1 said:


> Same Stuff Different Day,


Yup.....

I have a 10month old male and he rarely barks at all.....I have only heard him bark a few times......and what a bark.....it is just so deep and "scary".
So when he does bark I take notice as I think it must be something to take notice of. He barked a couple nights ago in the middle of the night so I got up to take a look.....my goat had gotten out of his paddock and he wears a collar and he had the collar caught in a bush in the yard and was trying to get free......scared the **** out of me as it looked like someone was in the bush.....anyway glad Luther barked as he would have been stuck there all night.....but can't remember when he barked before that....I LOVE the sound of his bark.....wish I heard it more often.

As for the "kept outside"......so refreshing to see some posters who are really in the know talking about dogs outside.
It is such a heated topic on this board and some rather outlandish things are said about dogs who are not "living" in the house.
Many new members are run off the board when they mention they keep their dogs outside even if the dog has a warm, cosy place to sleep and spends hours with the family outside the house.
No help is given to such people unless they are willing to change their ways and step up to the "standards" of some on this board.....so usually they just leave rolling their eyes.....I have often read these threads and wondered about breeders and what they do......some have many dogs and surely some have to be kenneled at some time?? Surley this doesn't make them horrible people who shouldn't own a dog or mean they have no bond with their dogs.....but anyway.....


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## msvette2u

ladylaw203 said:


> ETA: this is the usual scenario for 99% of the general public when it comes to dog living outside to "guard" the property
> **********************************************.****
> 
> Maybe it is where YOU live,but no, the majority of the public have pets in their yard and they are not treated that way. The OP is the norm. Wants a good dog as a companion and also a deterent to thieves.


No, it's the usual scenario across America. 
I'd say the OP is *not* the norm. 

Why is there organizations such as "Dogs Deserve Better" (whom I don't always agree with) if the majority of owners who get "yard dogs" are such exemplary owners?

Here where I live, too, even tiny dogs are kept outside, rarely looked at, sometimes fed when their owner has enough scraps left over from dinner. I worked a/c for 3hrs. and saw it all. Yard dogs do not fare as well as "house dogs" by far. Most end up getting ran over and if not killed, live a lifetime of misery due to untreated injuries.
The lucky ones have a fenced yard, but many don't. 

My parents lived next door to some such owners, a big, very homely black lab mix female, she got fatter and fatter and soon gave birth to some 8-10 puppies, many died but I think 6-7 lived.
She was chained almost 24/7. She didn't even have a bowl. Her food was dumped on the ground for her. She would dig, bark, etc. The owners yard was fenced but unluckily, she'd jump the fence which is why they chained her. She was just lonely and wanted attention, is why she'd jump it, then she'd bark and carry on when the owners walked out to dump her food on the ground.
They ended up giving the puppies away despite my parents notifying them we had a rescue and could take the puppies. They told the owners we'd spay the mama, even. They never even asked us about it, but told my mom they couldn't afford to spay her. 

This dog didn't even bark and be a "guard dog". I have no idea what purpose she served. 
They lost their home eventually and moved away. We don't have to look at her all the time now.


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## ladylaw203

No, it's the usual scenario across America. 
I'd say the OP is *not* the norm. 
Yard dogs do not fare as well as "house dogs" by far. Most end up getting ran over and if not killed, live a lifetime of misery due to untreated injuries.


******************
That is totally incorrect and I doubt you can quote real statistics nationwide to back that up

And NO most do not wind up getting run over. Just because you want housedogs does not mean it is the only way and anything else renders a dog miserable. good grief


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## ladylaw203

sparra said:


> Yup.....
> 
> As for the "kept outside"......so refreshing to see some posters who are really in the know talking about dogs outside.
> It is such a heated topic on this board and some rather outlandish things are said about dogs who are not "living" in the house.
> Many new members are run off the board when they mention they keep their dogs outside even if the dog has a warm, cosy place to sleep and spends hours with the family outside the house.
> No help is given to such people unless they are willing to change their ways and step up to the "standards" of some on this board.....so usually they just leave rolling their eyes.....I have often read these threads and wondered about breeders and what they do......some have many dogs and surely some have to be kenneled at some time?? Surley this doesn't make them horrible people who shouldn't own a dog or mean they have no bond with their dogs.....but anyway.....


 
Glad your goat is ok I am a breeder and a trainer as well as a police k9 handler. I have nice Priefert kennels with houses and drum fans for summer. There is NOTHING wrong with dogs living outside just like there is nothing wrong with horses being stabled. Some of my dogs come in at night but certainly not all of them. Not all folks opinions are based in logic


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## msvette2u

ladylaw203 said:


> No, it's the usual scenario across America.
> I'd say the OP is *not* the norm.
> 
> ******************
> 
> Really? Please articulate the source and percentages of those statistics.


My eyeballs?? 
It's not like I am guessing. This is my own experience. 

I'll take a pic the next time a neighbor's dog is dead in the road, I guess. It happens almost monthly here. 
I'll go around our town and take pics of the dogs on chains, or just run up the road to all the dogs never allowed in the house, but allowed to roam all over, and chase cars.


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## ladylaw203

those are not statistics and you have no observations nationwide. that is enough


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## msvette2u

Enough? What, you want me to go dig up statistics? On what, exactly? Proving that dogs who live outdoors their whole lives are often neglected?
Seriously? 
Do you not have crappy owners in Texas? I'm pleased yet amazed...


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## chelle

I can't begin to offer statistics, but many dogs live outdoors in my area. Usually in a fenced yard with a dog house. That's very normal around here. Whether they're neglected or mistreated, I couldn't say, but they're out there in all kinds of temperature extremes. It's almost a game to me -- when I drive by the houses where the dog is always outdoors and alone, I always check that house, and yep, dog outside. Alone. -10 degrees or 100 degrees. I can't know if they own the dog as a "guard" dog or what their reasoning is, but what is the point of a dog in those cases.

So I do disagree withe the 99% as well. If this is "normal" dog ownership, I wish even more less people owned dogs.


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## ladylaw203

since I have spent 35yrs as a cop I have arrested folks for animal cruelty but I certainly do not think that the majority of owners of non house dogs in this entire country behave that way. Your opinion is based on what you have seen in a limited area therefore you cannot speak for the whole country. this is a police k9 and protection section. If you have anything to say referrence that,post away, if not. the end


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## msvette2u

I doubt statistics have ever been compiled. 
It's just good ol' America...sigh...


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## msvette2u

ladylaw203 said:


> since I have spent 35yrs as a cop I have arrested folks for animal cruelty but I certainly do not think that the majority of owners of non house dogs in this entire country behave that way. Your opinion is based on what you have seen in a limited area therefore you cannot speak for the whole country. this is a police k9 and protection section. If you have anything to say referrence that,post away, if not. the end


It's not a "limited area", it's ALL OVER AMERICA.
If not (again) agencies like Dogs Deserve Better would not be formed because there'd be nothing for them to do.


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## ladylaw203

Did not you understand? I said the end. move your discussion to some other section that pertains to this. this is gotten silly


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