# Help! 7 month old, dog aggression.



## jennyjenn (Dec 6, 2013)

I have a 7 month old female GSD (Yazzie) that I have had since she was 8 weeks old and have had a trainer at my house weekly since she was 12 weeks old. Since she was 4 months old she has been lunging at cars. I have tried every kind of collar except for a prong or E collar. I have tried BAT training, rewarding, flooding, and NOTHING works. Recently she has started barking excessively at kids, started off just with toddler age, now its all kids, and I have a 9 year old. She is pretty good with her, but I am too afraid to bring any of her friends to my house. She also bites us (not aggressively but it hurts when she wants to play. I know this is a lot of issues, but I need help. I feel like she is out of control and I have tried everything to no avail??? I am working now with the breeder, but Yazzie is an angel when I bring her there. Is this normal?? HELP!!!!!!!!! My trainer is a positive reward/redirectional type and I'm starting to think that isn't what Yaz needs???


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

This is more of a general response/I went through a similar situation. Paisley went to puppy classes for 2 6 week sessions. By the middle of the second session, it was becoming clear that things were not working. She was reactive to so many things and I was overwhelmed. I switched trainers (she was approx 5 months at the time), had a new plan, and things slowly got better. Her reactive phase only lasted 4.5-7.5 months at most. My suggestion is, if you feel you are not making any progress, it may be time to look at a new trainer.

Good luck - I certainly know what you are going through and with the right trainer, your life will be a lot easier!


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Sounds like Yazzie is exhibiting some of the same behaviors my gal did at those ages. 

1.) I hired a trainer and the use of a prong collar was suggested and implemented. If a prong collar is fitted and used correctly, the results are impressive....perhaps you might research or be trained how to use one effectively.

2.) Teaching your dog, while on walks to walk in a position ( beside or slightly behind ) which allows you to cut off and/or physically block the dog from engaging the trigger will have benefits. If your dog is walking out in front of you and a correction needs to be made, you are in a poor position to make such corrections. Creating an imaginary line which your dog is not allowed to cross while on walks will benefit your ability to control the dog when the time comes when you need to keep your pooch in check. I have had good success with a simple verbal " Back", then pop the leash/prong collar immediately followed by a pivot of my body to place myself in front of the dog...face to face. While walking your dog, change directions and if your dog continues on the previous direction a gentle pop on the leash will get the dog to follow you while you change directions. You might want to do complete circles or just 180's but if you do this many times, the dog will start to pay more attention to you and stay in a position so it can follow you whenever you make course changes. Distractions away from the trigger once the dog has capitulated...treats, asking for the dog to look at you, a "what's this" perhaps waving a favorite toy in it's vision etc will make it easier to keep the dog in place. Using your body as a shield of sorts to block the dog from the distraction has merit as well. All too many people feel they must always have their dog on their left side but if the lure is on your left side, change the side your dog is walking on temporarily. 

3.) " I am working now with the breeder, but Yazzie is an angel when I bring her there." Well, maybe Yazzie knows, what Yazzie knows...and Yazzie has you figured out much better than your breeder. I have seen individuals who are savvy with dogs interact with 'problem" dogs and make it seem as if the dog is perfectly behaved. I believe this happens simply due to the lack of any previous relationship or the dog not "knowing" this person's status and while the dog discovers this individual's status, the individual exercises an aura of leadership hence the dog follows rather than leads.

4.) The age old " She also bites us (not aggressively but it hurts when she wants to play." This seems to be such a common theme with many dog owners especially shepherds. I have seen techniques such as a startling loud utterance from the human when the dog nips, followed by a vocal reprimand and if it happens again, the dog spends some time by themselves. Supposedly, the dog will learn what behavior results in playtime versus solitary confinement. With the 3 GSDs which I have had, I started with the covering of the upper muzzle and pressing their jowls onto their upper teeth, letting them know, we humans also have pain receptors. I have at times returned in kind when my dog's playful nips became a bit more than "cute". Many folks would think this is incorrect and accuse me of being a bit too rough on the dog but I have found successful results using this method. I'm certain there will be plenty of other good advice which has yielded positive results regarding the nipping which is so prevalent in younger dogs. 

5.) Overall, in order for any of what I have mentioned to be effective there is a common denominator which must be established and that simply is...you must gain the status of "leader" in your dog's mind. The beauty of establishing this status is your dog craves for it but you have to earn it....not by being mean or rough but by being smart and judicious when it comes to reprimand. GSD's are smart...very smart and one has to respect this and use it to their advantage during the building of the relationship. I have found by being at the very least, one step ahead of your dog at all times is a great start to mastering this pursuit of status as leader. 

6.) My current shepherd has most certainly testing my wits and I always need to remind myself, patience, consistency and evenhanded treatment. If I become frustrated I have lost the moment and no good will come of it.
She has a much stronger prey drive than her food drive, so the use of treats when she is triggered has little if any benefit as a distraction to curtail her focus on the "prey". 

7.) One last thought, before any walks, play times out in the yard or getting out of the car, use the imaginary line drill until your Yazzie is calmed down. Having your dog on a sit/wait with you between Yazzie and an open door is a good place to do this..whether on leash or not. As you move to the side, allowing an opening for your dog to exit and your dog breaks, give the back command and physically block her from going out the door and put Yazzie back in a sit/wait and then slowly move aside to allow the opening again....repeat and repeat and repeat. Once Yazzie will sit/wait with an opening to the outside and not break, invite her to go outside or exit the vehicle ...calm and assured..now you are halfway home. This technique enforces the 'imaginary line" discipline and can be used most anywhere AND gives your pooch the opportunity to mellow out a bit before it engages in whatever is on the other side of the "line". PLUS, it sets the tempo. Starting off your walk or journey with a dog all hyped up sets a tempo that is not desirable 99% of the time.

Hang in there and be the leader your dog is insisting on, you just need to try and see it through Yazzie's "eyes" rather than your own "eyes". You have a wonderful opportunity to seize the moment as Yazzie matures and when Yazzie does it properly.....flood her with kindness and cheers..Yazzie will figure it out.

SuperG


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I'm getting this moved out of aggression section and into the puppy section.

Because though it seems like 'aggression' in such a young dog what you are describing is just over excited inappropriate behavior. And not uncommon in our breed. Your situation is EXACTLY why I pretty much never recommend a GSD to people cause they can be so much harder to raise then other pups (you aren't crazy, it's not easy  ).

I'd definitely change trainers, and that's also normal  . If things not only don't get better but worse then they aren't teaching US (we btw) are the problem, not the dog) what we need. So we actually need to find a trainer that is able to explain and teach us so we practice during the week, improve, then move on with more training the following week. A good trainer will take you out and about to see where the problems are, come up with solutions that work, and not just be taking your money to hear things are getting worse.

The biting is so normal we made a sticky for it --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...wner/188549-puppy-biting-hints-tips-help.html

Generally it sounds like you aren't able to exercise your pup enough either. By 6 months I could have my dogs walking miles and miles for hours OFF LEASH to take the edge off. So if you are very busy and your dog only exercises in the yard by itself or on leashed walks (that sound like they are a nightmare) then that's absolutely making this harder for you.

Are you able to contact the breeder for help/tips/suggestions?

If you go up to the narrow black strip along the top of the forum, click on User CP, and then put your GENERAL location in, it will show up to the left of each post like my Poconos stuff and maybe someone lives in your area who can help or have suggestions.

Have you tried the Gentle Leader Harness? Since it's something most positive trainers should have recommended immediately in your situation it makes me question the person you are using.


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## jennyjenn (Dec 6, 2013)

I have tried the gentle leader and she is on edge more then any other collar. So while I have more control over her, she has a lot more triggers.

I will do the imaginary line before we go on walks, but no way can I do off leash. I wish I could because I think she would be much better if she could run free other than in backyard. I don't do dog parks anymore because she was knocked down and pinned by a pit at one and now I can't relax enough to try again. We play hours of fetch every day.

Any suggestions how to handle the kid aspect? Thanks again for all the suggestions.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Just wanted to make sure you tried the Gentle Leader HARNESS, I know many dogs hate the head collar.

For the kids, time will fix this WHILE YOU TEACH 

For the time being, I'd let kids come to your house but just before they come have her in the crate. So she can see and get used to them being around, but while you continue the training (and she learns to stay calmer) she can't actually explode and accidentally injure any of them. And/or you can start working on her sit/stay/treat with the leash on and with the kids in the house. They can be great distraction training.

How many hours of engagement training have you gotten under your belt at this time? Will be a huge help.

click this ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html


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## jennyjenn (Dec 6, 2013)

*Training*

I work with on walking two times a day for 30 minutes, we do basic sit wait etc every day as we'll. Plus we play fetch several times a day, are there other games, training we should try for obedience? I will do imaginary line I like that idea. I think she needs more mental stimulation and I am just not creative enough to come up with games to do that?


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

jennyjenn said:


> I have a 7 month old female GSD (Yazzie) that I have had since she was 8 weeks old and have had a trainer at my house weekly since she was 12 weeks old. Since she was 4 months old she has been lunging at cars. I have tried every kind of collar except for a prong or E collar. I have tried BAT training, rewarding, flooding, and NOTHING works. Recently she has started barking excessively at kids, started off just with toddler age, now its all kids, and I have a 9 year old. She is pretty good with her, but I am too afraid to bring any of her friends to my house. She also bites us (not aggressively but it hurts when she wants to play. I know this is a lot of issues, but I need help. I feel like she is out of control and I have tried everything to no avail??? I am working now with the breeder, but Yazzie is an angel when I bring her there. Is this normal?? HELP!!!!!!!!! My trainer is a positive reward/redirectional type and I'm starting to think that isn't what Yaz needs???


 
Cruz was much like this. I still am having trouble with my ankle that I sprained on the edge of a sidewalk when he decided to lunge at a truck going by. It's frustrating. He still will try to lunge every now and then, but for the most part he's gotten alot better.

You have to realise that with high prey drive dogs, everything is a potential target and overriding instinct with training is not going to happen overnight. There is no magic training session that will make it stop immediatley. 

Here is what I've been working on with Cruz to help with lunging at cars. It's a command that can be used in many different situations. It's called the "leave it" command and your trainer may have worked with you on it already. It can be taught a few different ways. My trainer uses a toy of his during class. My former trainer used a high value treat. I prefer using the toy. 

The toy method is easy. You just have to constantly train this method. What you do is get in an area where you can walk your dog in a semi-large circle. You start practicing your loose leash walking around in a circle. Have someone introduce the toy at one point in the circle your walking. Not directly in your walking path, but just outside of your walking path. Have a treat ready in hand, have someone introduce the toy, when the dog goes for the toy redirect saying "leave it" in a commanding voice and keep him walking past that point. Do not let him stop to get the toy. This will make him also lunge at the toy to get it. Keep him walking past the toy and this is important, as soon as his eye contact breaks from the toy to where he's walking, treat him and praise praise praise. Just keep going in circles like that, doing it over and over. He should eventually start to stop lunging, and will walk on past. He'll still make eye contact with the toy but as soon as he redirects his focus off the toy, treat and praise. Here is the other very important thing. Never let him have that toy! Ever! It may set your training back and it may neutralize all your hard work.

So how do I use this when walking and car lunging? Same way as I did when walking him in training. I see a car comming, he see's the car comming. I command leave it just as the car gets to us and he makes eye contact but does not lunge. As soon as his focus "eye contact" is directed back to walking, he gets treated and praised for not lunging. Usually with Cruz, I do this with the first few cars and after that, I can just command leave it and sometimes he won't even look at the car going by. But this as I've mentioned is over a period of time. It didn't happen overnight. You have to be persistant. Don't give up on it. The important part is treating and praising just as soon as his eye contact breaks off the item he's trying to get and walking him through it. Make sure you always have ahold of his leader or leash firmly. He may go ahead and lunge but just work through it like you did with the toy. 

Cruz and I still work on this. It's a slower progression than say learning to sit or down. Your teaching against his instinct to chase. I'd work him on the command in an area with minimal distraction where it's just you the dog and the toy before every walk. Hopefuly, the training will translate to the walk. This can also translate over to other things you don't want him to mess with. We use it in situations with anything from shoes to strangers. We're working our way up to Cruz leaving the cat alone.:laugh:


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## jafo220 (Mar 16, 2013)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> Just wanted to make sure you tried the Gentle Leader HARNESS, I know many dogs hate the head collar.
> 
> For the kids, time will fix this WHILE YOU TEACH
> 
> ...


The gentle leader works great. But make sure you have it fitted properly. I used one on Cruz and he did great with it. But...... I didn't get it fitted properly for a walk and he fought it hard and eventally he got some scaring from it. It was an after dark walk and he just really fought it hard that night and I didn't see what it and he was doing to himself. His fur is growing back but just be careful and make sure it's properly fitted before heading out.

Another thing is put it on him while in the house for a few minutes at a time several times a day. No leash, just the harness. It may help him become accustom to it and less likely to fight and pick at it.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Did you get a chance to look thru ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...191183-top-training-expectations-puppies.html

If you click on that there is tons of information about the 'engagement' training. Plus if you go to the clicker training links, and other links/info/youtube videos associated you'll see more tricks than you can believe.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

jennyjenn said:


> I work with on walking two times a day for 30 minutes, we do basic sit wait etc every day as we'll. Plus we play fetch several times a day, are there other games, training we should try for obedience? I will do imaginary line I like that idea. I think she needs more mental stimulation and I am just not creative enough to come up with games to do that?


Training classes like agility or nosework (lots of other options too). In addition to our behavior trainer, Paisley goes herding and we start nosework in another week. I am excited to start nosework because I know we can take what we learn in classes and set up finds outside of class. 



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