# Ransacking and Mad Munchies



## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

OK Chimo is STILL getting into trouble when left home alone but ONLY when I am at work. I suspect the attacks on the desk are because the "desk" is also my "table". He was out this past Sunday and I came home to a suicidal Kayboard and mouse, both mysteriously hung themselves by their cords after JUMPING off the desk without any help according to the first paw reports I received. However, I suspect a cover up.







My friend and I just FINALLY got together for Christmas and the dogs received a Kitty Litter bucket full of goodies. A big kitty litter bucket. I figured it would be safe on my bed but somehow or another the lid on the bucket became separated from the rest of the bucket and many of the enclosed yummies were splattered over my bed.... the cow ear rawhides were everywhere but I have yet to find the package of three candy cane cookies.







There were three in a package, two dogs out so I hope they were kind enough to shove the extra one in someones crate. I doubt it. 

So why in the world would a senior develop the mad munchies and turn my handsome perfect little angel into the desctructive little devil? I want my angel back! My computer does too.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Because he is getting older and has been an angel and DESERVES to "loose his mind" occasionally!

My first female GSD NEVER ate food lift in the car with her. UNTIL she was 11yo and she decided to eat a Lemon fruit pie AND an entire LARGE package of Nutter Butters! All I could do was laugh. I figured after being SO good for 11 years, she DESERVED it.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I think it is his way of telling me I should be working from home.....Do you think my boss will buy that?

Boss: "So what would you like to work from home?"

Me: "Cuz my senior dog gets the mad munchies if I am gone for more than 4 or 5 hours and he ransacks the house."

Well that sounds perfectly logical to me but somehow I am thinking the boss will not understand.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Thyroid? 

When Zamboni was on too high of a dose of thyroxine, I caught her snooping through EVERYTHING for food and stealing anything she could get her paws on. She was a baaaaaad beagle! Her mood was also a little weird. 

Now that we have her dose where it should be, she's back to being stubbornly, regally, the Queen. She just demands her treats -- like a good senior should. All that training about not begging? Eh, that's for young dogs. We seniors do as we please!


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

He shows NO other signs of thyroid.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: AmaruqHe shows NO other signs of thyroid.


The thyroid can be deceptive. When was it last checked?


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Grace did this kind of thing before she got on thyroid meds - and she was the total opposite of what low thyroid should be - she was underweight, ravenously hungry, and very sharp tempered. Soloxine fixed her right up though. Go figure. Thyroid is weird. Definitely worth checking on.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

In fact, it has been said that, the thyroid is typically 70% deteriorated by the time all the "classic" signs show outwardly. I believe that this process, from the onset of disease, to the classic symptoms showing, can take about a year a half, roughly.

I also believe that it was Dodman, the behaviorist, that showed that many of the behavior and aggression issues with the thyroid show in "low normal" cases.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Lisa, do you have an article/citation for that info (the first part, about 70% deterioration, not the aggression part)?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

No reference, sorry. I heard it a Jean Dodds' seminar last Saturday. Just for you, I dug out my notes







....

"Early thyroid disease shows a strong behavior component -- moody, ADD, aggression, rage, pacificity, fear, etc.

It takes 1 year to 1 1/2 years of progression until you see the obvious signs of hypothyroidism. 70% or more of the gland to be damaged before you see the overweight, etc. "

"In the early inflammatory stage" where there is possibly thyroid swelling, you may see "nothing abnormal in the blood, may see swelling in an ultrasound"

There was also an earlier comment on how the thryoid controls the gastro-intestinal metabolism, which is why there are so many digestive disorders that accompany thyroid disease.

edit: a Dodds article that cites symptoms don't appear until more than 75% of the gland is destroyed: http://www.workingshelties.org/HypothyroidismSimplified.htm

similar info:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2008&PID=24065&O=Generic


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Thank you. Most informative.

I owe you one.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

I'm curious - in the seminar was there any more information about what kind of digestive disorders and can they still be a problem if the dog is getting medication (soloxine)?
I ask because my older dog is on soloxine for thyroid problems.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

No problem 3K9. 

I wasn't keeping track, I may having been paying back??









Woodreb, she didn't talk much about what continuing problems there might be once treatment starts. I know in humans, usually you never are quite right, even with meds. I do believe that even with meds, there are often problems with fatty acids and their transports, but that's just stuff that I know from before. 

I guess you can say for sure that if the dose isn't right and the levels are still off, then you will still see problems.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

All of her follow up blood work shows that we're at the correct dose. Your mention of digestive problems caught my eye because the one thing that can be a problem is room clearing gas. Doesn't matter what you feed her and I'm cautious about messing with her diet too much. Because of hip and back issues she has become fecal incontinent and I make changes very slowly so I don't have to deal with bad messes.

I was just wondering if that might be one of the gastric issues.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Have you ever tried a digestive enzyme? With our GSD, I've found that a bromelain capsule works best for him. For my other dog, we use pancreatic enzymes.


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## Woodreb (Oct 27, 2008)

No, but I'm willing to give it a try. Thanks.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Now I have another hunch. I noticed last night he was licking his knee. The same one that he hurt (hyper extended ligament but did not require surgery for it) almost a year ago. A little while later he was licking his wrist on the joint. I am thinking now joint discomfort. He had one of his pills for bone pain today and I have not seen him licking, in fact he has been snoozing all day. Well except for his wanting to go grocery shopping with me today. He is SUCH the perfect guy.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Sorry we kinda hijacked your thread there a bit.

You think the ransacking was a pain response then?


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I guess I do not really know and I won't know.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

I guess not then.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Now I have some other suspicions. <sigh> I will be calling the other vet tomorrow for an appointment. Who knows how long it will take to get in there but they have more diagnostic abilities.


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