# Thoughts on this small scale Breeder? Euro Deja MD



## mcullins91101 (Jan 2, 2015)

I came across this breeder, pretty local to me. Seems to be newer to breeding shepherds, but they seem to be going about it the right away.

what do you guys think? She used a stud, that sired the mother of a friends puppy. The sire is also 9 years old. Is that too old?

Euro Deja - Home

The puppy she has now is 11 weeks old stock coat, I will meet her this friday. Shes not potty trained, uses a wood chip area in their climate controled kennel. Im guessing this wont be to hard to break if i create a similiar wood chip area in my back yard?

as always thanks for the input, im really learning alot from you guys!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

What exactly did you mean by "seem to be doing it right"?

I don't see any working titles on the females, they're basically breeding family pets.


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## mcullins91101 (Jan 2, 2015)

your right the mother has no working title. The father seems to be well titled, most importantly both are hip and elbow certified and dm clear. 

its not easy to find a show line pup in my area from ceftified parents for under 2k. most want 2,500 + 

I understand this is no top breeder, but to me it seems they are not just some byb breeding poor quality shepherds. I wanted some honest opinions from someone who has more experience reading linage and so on


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

mcullins91101 said:


> your right the mother has no working title. The father seems to be well titled, most importantly both are hip and elbow certified and dm clear.
> 
> its not easy to find a show line pup in my area from ceftified parents for under 2k. most want 2,500 +
> 
> I understand this is no top breeder, but to me it seems they are not just some byb breeding poor quality shepherds. I wanted some honest opinions from someone who has more experience reading linage and so on


The reason they're cheaper, is because the breeder understand they're "not doing it right." People that sell for under the market generally do this because they know that the only reason you'd go with them over someone that's "doing it right" is the price.

To me...health checks aren't the most important thing. It's the easiest thing to do, doesn't take any time, training, don't have to prove anything. You just pay a vet and get your answer. 

The male is an outside stud. Someone else put in the work, they just picked him and wrote a check.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

there is nothing wrong with using outside males - In this case, with the untitled females, it is at least feasibly improvement...my issue is that the "foundation" female is untitled, her parents APPARENTLY untitled, and using an untitled female out of that original female....the "foundation" female is not imported, but from another kennel who breeds for pets, is coated, and while is apparently a nice family dog, has nothing to commend her as a "FOUNDATION" dog...

In some European countries, untitled females are not uncommon in breeding programs, but they work them, are established breeders, and the females have titled littermates, are health tested etc. I can understand an occassional untitled female in a program - but this is a program loosely termed with no real foundation of knowledge - it is someone who has enough knowledge to use those titled males, emphasize the males accomplishments and put irrelevant info that is designed to give you warm fuzzies on the info pages for their females.....also - buying a pup in Florida is NOT IMPORTING! Buying a dog from Europe is importing....

A breeder who is looking to produce inexpensive pets from pets using a male who has some credentials to justify more than sunday newspaper price.

Lee


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

My comment is that the contract is wordy and designed to fully protect the breeder and not the buyer at all - too restrictive, JMO. For one thing she gives you a hip warranty for 26 months, you can only take OFA x-rays after 24 months and there is a lag time in getting the results back from the OFA of SEVERAL weeks but you may not x-ray at 24 months if a female is coming into heat or going out of heat because of her restrictions...it looks like plenty of "outs" for the breeder.....

And that there is misinformation in listing just European dogs and American Dogs because there are plenty of European dogs (working line) that do not meet her criteria.


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