# dermal hemangiosarcoma



## GSD4LIFE21

Anyone here experience this with a dog or know a lot about it? I have a few questions...


----------



## LisaT

I haven't seen it on the board, but maybe someone reading will have input?


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

thats what im hoping for. I just aquired a dog that has some very suspicious tumor-like cysts on his belly area. Hes an all white pit 5 years old, and from what I was told the first one developed about a year ago. Im biting my nails here because it looks like cancer...I am going to the vets in the morning but I cant help but look up and find out everything I can about it.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Hemangiosarcoma, Skin

BASICS


OVERVIEW 
Skin hemangiosarcoma is a malignant tumor arising from endothelial cells. It is referred to as angiosarcoma or malignant hemangioendothelioma. Primary cutaneous hemangiosarcoma develops within dermal or subcutaneous tissues. 

SIGNALMENT 
• Prevalence in dogs is 0.3-2.0% 
• Median age 9 years (range, <span style="color: #FF0000">4.5</span>-15 years) 
• Cutaneous hemangiosarcoma accounts for 14% of all hemangiosarcoma in dogs. 
• <span style="color: #FF0000">Pit bull</span>, boxer, and German shepherd dog affected more commonly than other breeds 
• Rare in cats 

SIGNS 
• A solitary tumor is commonly noticed, although patient with cutaneous hemangiosarcoma can have<span style="color: #FF0000"> multiple nodules clustered in one area. </span>• Dermal hemangiosarcoma appears as <span style="color: #FF6600">small, firm, raised, dark nodules </span>located primarily on the <span style="color: #FF0000">prepuce</span> and ventral abdomen. 
• Subcutaneous hemangiosarcoma appears as firm or soft, fluctuant masses with associated bruising. These tumors are typically larger than dermal hemangiosarcoma and, although commonly located on the pelvic limbs, can arise in any location. 
• Ulceration is frequent. 

CAUSES AND RISK FACTORS 
• Vascular stasis, radio therapy, trauma and <span style="color: #FF0000">sun exposure </span>are predisposing factors in people and may be risk factors in dogs. 
• Genetic predisposition in<span style="color: #FF0000"> pit bull</span>, boxer, and German shepherd dog


----------



## GSD4LIFE21




----------



## GSD4LIFE21

well I guess I will just have to wait and see what the vet says..


----------



## LisaT

Indy had a solitary nodule that looked like that red angry type. It did change it's appearance, but she was biting at it. It took me awhile to find the thread:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1104239&page=0&fpart=1


----------



## Myamom

This is what they thought my Mya had. She had a suspicious bump (that she was chewing at...and was raw)...and had a needle aspirate that came back positive for hemangiosarcoma. 

We were referred to a surgeon for resection with WIDE margins (so they could determine spread) and biopsy. We were told if after resection..the margins were clean...most likely it would mean that they had been successful in removing the tumor completely and that it had not spread.. If margins were "dirty" it would indicate spread...and we would have then been referred to an Oncologist for further treatment. I did ask IF there was spread...and we had to go to an Oncologist...what her prospects were...and we were told they were still very good. Apparently...of all the types of hemangiosarcoma...dermal has the best chance of a good outcome. 

In our case...we had an amazing outcome...the biopsy came back negative. 

(her spot looked nothing like the picture above)


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

So they can diagnose this with just aspirating some of the fluids from the tumor and test it?


----------



## LisaT

With indy, I had it removed and they sent the whole thing away. With that type of growthan I'm not sure they can stick a needle and get a good sample. 

Good luck at the vet's - let us know what they say.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Thanks I am about to head out now, crossing my fingers!


----------



## M&J

Same here. Needle aspirate of Lilly's came back suspicious for cancer. Had two removed, sent to pathology. Benign!

Best of luck!


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Just got back home... the first thing that came out of the vets mouth was hemangiosarcoma...i had a sinking feeling even though I had a feeling it could be...

hes there now still, and he will be getting them removed and then sent off for testing...his previous owners said hes had the first one about a year ago...so if thats true then it most likely has spread internally right?


----------



## LisaT

The skin ones may act differently, but definitely prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and start googling to get a plan of action


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Median survival time in dogs with complete surgical excision of a dermal
hemangiosarcoma is 780 days.

What I am finding is that this is the better form of hemangiosarcoma to get, but I guess even if they remove it all he still has about 2 years left...the previous owners though it was just a blood blister and their vet lead them to believe it was nothing since it ruptured and apeared to go away. And thats why that other bigger lesion doesnt look filled, its been there for a year or so. ey ey ey...


----------



## LisaT

I believe that a lot can be done with cancer by choosing the right diet and supplements. At minimum, quality of life issues, at best, life extension. LOTS of info about that stuff on this board.


----------



## Myamom

See...I don't understand that. According to my surgeon...if the margins were clean when he resected - meaning no spread - he said this would all be over...that the cancer would be removed...end of story. Now...if when he resected, the margins were dirty, meaning spread...next step would have been oncologist and treatment...and he still indicated that we would have a good chance with fighting it. 

I would highly recomend getting on a good cancer fighting regime if this IS cancer via diet and natural supplements. 

watch out with the internet searching...it will make you crazy


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Just got him back from the vets. Surgery went fine. He said he sees lots of pits with the cancer and said that it normally comes back in the same spots or around it after the removal and its normally around the penis. I should get the results of the biopsy by wed of next week, its going to be a long weekend!


----------



## Myamom

"The dermal form can potentially be cured with surgery alone, and many dogs may have a fair to excellent long-term prognosis. Dermal and Hypodermal Hemangiosarcoma account for 14% of all reported"

"Dermal Hemangiosarcoma often appears as a dark to purple skin lesion, which may be raised and appear on non-haired areas like the abdomen. 30% of all dogs with dermal Hemangiosarcoma develop metastatic disease."


Sounds like good odds to me.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

even tho the tumors were notice a year ago and ignored? thats my main concern and what im trying to figure out. since this was not treated as soon as it was noticed, that maybe it spread to his organs.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

And what I am trying to find out is that 30% that spreads internally, what makes that number? Is that percentage because those dogs were never treated, they never had the dermal tumors removed and so it spread internally? Were those the cases? Or does it not matter?


----------



## LisaT

I'm with you Marie. And good odds or not, if your dog is the one that doesn't have the favorable outcome, then the odds are meaningless. It reminds me a bit of mast cell tumors, so variable. 

I would start on a supplement program this weekend. Maybe essaic tea to start. 

ETA: essaic tea=Flor-Essence, because this is a blood disease. There are other supps, but this one seems like a good one, if you are just going to start with one thing.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Yeah I am researching holistic ways to increase his chances, I agree they are just odds and there so much stats on the web I guess I will just have to do what I can and not worry so much about a number. He is such a sweet dog, he loves everyone and even likes my cat. He does not deserve this. Hes the type of dog that puts his head on your lap when you are having a bad day and he just knows it...


----------



## LisaT




----------



## Myamom

I was trying to help her think positively









you can make yourself crazy on the internet....been there done that.......

Take a deep breath and take it one step at a time...


----------



## LisaT

No, I absolutely agree - sorry if my response was short!


----------



## M&J

I had a dog with mast cell cancer, they said he had about 1500 days. He lived 7.5 more years and the cancer had never returned.
That was before I knew about good food, supplements, etc.
Best of luck!


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Oh wow, thats awesome. I hate that I have to wait through the weekend for the results, adds two more days to how long i have to wait for the results..he seems extremely lazy though. Not sure if its because hes in a new place or if its because hes feeling icky.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

So I just got the report back from the vet and the results are in...The biopsies tested positive for the dermal hemangiosarcomas.. I can honestly say I am not suprised. i suppose the next step would be to have the xrays done on his organs to see if it spread internally, but I am sure those wont be cheap. I am already on a tight budget, is there any other way to find out if its spread? Would a blood panel tell me?


----------



## middleofnowhere

They did an ultrasound with Barker the Younger to see if her hemangiosarcoma had spread. Maybe that would work? But it may be more expensive than xrays. I think it's a couple hundred.


----------



## LisaT

I am so sorry that you weren't wrong










Blood test won't tell you where it's spread, unless maybe very advanced.

Cancers tend to have "favored" places where they spread first. You might want to price the difference between xrays and/or ultrasound, depending on where the spread is inclined to go.


----------



## LJsMom

I'm sorry.

I just paid $120 for 2 x-rays (chest and abdomen). They were clear, so now we're moving on to the ultrasound just to be sure. Money wise - I probably should have skipped the x-rays and just had the ultrasound.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Well the thing is, what would it matter where the cancer would be? I just want to know if its internal or not. I know I cant afford chemo or surgery and even if I could I dont know if I would want to put my dog through that just so he could live an extra few months. 

I just dont even know what to think right now. I am sure I will be up all night again searching the internet. I might go with xrays or an ultrasound I am just not sure yet. I do want to know if its spread though, maybe it would help to know where its spread to I am just not sure. Woud it matter to know where it has spread to if it has gone internal if I dont plan to do chemo?


----------



## GSD4LIFE21




----------



## Myamom

So...did they remove the growth/tumor completely and take wide margins? (that's what they did with Mya). If so...what did the tissue AROUND the tumor show? Was it clean - meaning no spread? or "dirty" meaning spread?


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

It says it was clean margins and it was completely removed. GOOD NEWS! I just dont know how it will affect him since it was on there for over a year. Hopefully since its been that long it means it wont spread further.


----------



## LisaT

Great news, what a relief









I would still follow this with something like essaic tea/flor-essence, or cottage cheese and flaxseed oil.


----------



## Myamom

THAT particular tumor...is GONE









Gone!! Completely removed..clean margins








...so can't spread









Just be diligent and watch for any other tumors that may show up in the future (not saying any will) 

I would also research and get on a good cancer fighting diet and use supplements such as Lisa is suggesting.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

It is GREAT news, but what no one is answering me on is hes lived with this for over a year. Is it possible it has spread even though it was fully removed? Or would the pathology report would have told that? my vet said in most cases new ones regrow.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

right now hes on a high protien/low carb diet. I have been giving vit e since its a great antioxident and salmon oil to his food....


----------



## WiscTiger

Reading MaryAnn's post about clean margins, I would say the chance that it spread internally if you had clean margin is minimal, not impossible because I don't think there is such a think as impossible with cancer. 

Val


----------



## LisaT

You're right Val, about the no such impossible.I think it also depends on the ability to spread via blodd and lymph. 

Dad's colon cancer was clean margins, no lymph nodes, but spread via blood to liver. I guess an oncologist *might* be familiar with possible behaviors, I dunno.


----------



## GSD4LIFE21

Ah I understand. Ok I didnt know cancer could spread through the blood. Thats sort of the answer I was looking for. I am quite honestly scared to find out ifit has but I guess its got to be done..


----------



## LisaT

That's one of the reasons I was thinking of the essaic tea - I believe it is a blood cleanser too.


----------



## RebelGSD

Hemangio is a cancer of blood vessels and spreads through the blood. The dermal version is much less aggreesive than the one that develops on internal organs. Chances for cure with surgery are quite good for the dermal version.


----------

