# Cryptorchidism - any alternatives to neutering



## Grimm02

Just found out my 1.5 year old has cryptorchidism. I knew he had only one testicle descended when I got him but I didn't know what it meant and I should've looked into it sooner. And I hate that I've gone this long without addressing it. We had a vets visit the other day that went absolutely horrible. But from what I understand the only way to help him is to get him neutered. I wanted to explore other options before taking that plunge. We werent able to do much at the vet Because he was uncomfortable and the vet kept pushing him to do things he was uncomfortable with. So we wound up leaving and I didn't get much information. I'm currently looking it's a holistic vet but I wanted to know if you guys could provide me with anymore information. Thanks!


----------



## Jax08

What do you mean the visit went horrible and the vet was pushing him to do things he was uncomfortable with? Making him physically uncomfortable? Did the undescended testicle cause an immediate health problem? Why do you not want to get him neutered?

Just an FYI...I do know of one person whose vet retrieved the testicle and left the dog intact with the descended one. Neutering is not hte only option unless it caused some kind of health issue.


----------



## wolfy dog

At 2 years you could have the retained one removed and a vasectomy on the descended one. I had a GSD male in the past like that and it worked well.
Currently my Collie pup of 4 months still has a retained one. If it remains that way, I will have it monitored and decide then if I have it removed or not. IMO we think way to easy about all these invasive procedures.


----------



## Grimm02

Jax08 said:


> What do you mean the visit went horrible and the vet was pushing him to do things he was uncomfortable with? Making him physically uncomfortable? Did the undescended testicle cause an immediate health problem? Why do you not want to get him neutered?
> 
> Just an FYI...I do know of one person whose vet retrieved the testicle and left the dog intact with the descended one. Neutering is not hte only option unless it caused some kind of health issue.



Thanks for the input! It went horrible because he's not very socialized, we currently have him in behavior classes and we are working hard to get him there. I warned them on the phone that he had these issues. They told me it was fine. When the vet saw us she kept trying to check out his back-end. He did not like it and he growled. She put a muzzle on him which I totally understand and I was ok with her doing. But he's never worn one and he became really stressed out and she kept saying how bad he was and he was a naughty dog. She was relentless on feeling back there which I can appreciate to some degree but it's really hard watching your baby in that kind of state. She had 3 vet techs trying to hold him down with no avail. She decided to stop but told me she couldn't continue the exam because my dog was so bad. 
This is my first dog, my first vet visit with Grimm, I don't know what's "normal" and I was very co operative but she was not. She made passive aggressive remarks to me instead of being more patient and understanding. And she kept asking me about vaccinations after I told her he wasn't getting any without a titer test , which she couldn't do because "I can't control my dog". so I paid $40 to have him weighed and watch the vet have a power struggle with him.


----------



## Grimm02

wolfy dog said:


> At 2 years you could have the retained one removed and a vasectomy on the descended one. I had a GSD male in the past like that and it worked well.
> Currently my Collie pup of 4 months still has a retained one. If it remains that way, I will have it monitored and decide then if I have it removed or not. IMO we think way to easy about all these invasive procedures.


That is very helpful information thank you! I prefer keeping things the natural way but I'm worried about the cancer risks associated with it.


----------



## selzer

You can have him neutered, you can have the retained one removed, you can leave him be. 

The vets will tell you the dog will be more likely to get testicular cancer with a retained testicle. This is not necessarily so. You have to kind of look at the facts on that one. The thing is, the way people realize their dog has testicular cancer is by observing a change in the testicle. You can't do that if it is retained. So, if he is one of the 1% that has that issue, then you will not know when it develops. 

So, the typical thing to do is just to go ahead and neuter, or take the retained one. Since it is a disqualifying fault, most people do not want to breed a dog with a retained testicle, so they may just do the complete neuter and find the dog a pet home. 

There is no hurry. It doesn't hurt the dog. You can allow the dog to reach maturity and then neuter him. That way he has the hormones longer. Or, you can neuter just the retained testicle, and he will do fine with just one.


----------



## NancyJ

I have a friend who is having a very hard time finding a vet who will do anything but a complete neuter. Same thing with vasectomy; it can be terribly hard to find


----------



## Jax08

Grimm02 said:


> Thanks for the input! It went horrible because he's not very socialized, we currently have him in behavior classes and we are working hard to get him there. I warned them on the phone that he had these issues. They told me it was fine. When the vet saw us she kept trying to check out his back-end. He did not like it and he growled. She put a muzzle on him which I totally understand and I was ok with her doing. But he's never worn one and he became really stressed out and she kept saying how bad he was and he was a naughty dog. She was relentless on feeling back there which I can appreciate to some degree but it's really hard watching your baby in that kind of state. She had 3 vet techs trying to hold him down with no avail. She decided to stop but told me she couldn't continue the exam because my dog was so bad.
> This is my first dog, my first vet visit with Grimm, I don't know what's "normal" and I was very co operative but she was not. She made passive aggressive remarks to me instead of being more patient and understanding. And she kept asking me about vaccinations after I told her he wasn't getting any without a titer test , which she couldn't do because "I can't control my dog". so I paid $40 to have him weighed and watch the vet have a power struggle with him.


ah yeah. Some vets, and techs, aren't to savvy with dogs. First, you don't know what other dogs behaved that way she may have encountered that day or week. Does not excuse her lack of professional tact with you but you might want to give them a little slack. I'm on pretty good terms with my vet and the techs there so I get to hear some of the stories.

Second, muzzle train your dog. I've muzzled a dog at the vet, usually she was to worried about the muzzle and we easily go thru the exam. It sounds like yours has quite a bit if anxiety during an exam? I'll shoot Jane a note and maybe she can give you tips on how to deal with it. She has a girl that has high anxiety at the vets as well.

How long have you had Grimm if this is your first vet visit? Do you have proof of previous vaccinations? What about his rabies? That is due at 1 yr for most states.



> She was relentless on feeling back there which I can appreciate to some degree but it's really hard watching your baby in that kind of state


I get what you are saying here. I really do. Mine had an infected anal gland and screamed when the vet expressed it. I felt horrible but you need to take yourself out of the mentality. The techs and vets have a job to do. Don't put your dog in the "baby" category. They are dogs. Respect them for the species they are. Don't humanize him. *After all, they are pretty amazing creatures all on their own*.  

If you were uptight over the handling, he is going to be even more anxious about it. I have one dog that I can not handle at the vet. Not because I can't physically but because she will hide behind us and it's a struggle. I leave the room. Vet and tech do their thing. I come back in and she's getting her belly rubbed with the vet on the floor with her. You have to have a vet you can trust, you need to know when to step aside and you need to learn how to tell your dog to cut the crap and he IS going to do this.  So be confident and your dog will pick up on that. ( and that goes for the vet's frame of mind as well. if she was so busy telling him he was "naughty" then she was giving off all sorts of vibes as well)

In the meantime, find a vet that you like. Start taking him in just to get weighed and have the techs give him treats and then you leave. No stress, happy, happy, 5 minutes and out. Once you have control of him, have people start touching him (if that is safe to do!). 

Learn how to hold your own dog for the vet. Mine has me hold my own dogs. And learn how to do it without letting sympathy get in the way. That hold on your dog is keeping the people safe and the dog safe. You can't have him jerking around biting someone and ripping a vein because they were drawing blood on him.

BTW...when my vets come into the room, they don't even pay attention to the dog. They don't make eye contact, they do nothing but talk to me. Even after all these years, that is still the routine. They let the dog sniff them. They'll quietly say hi to them. My previous vet did not do this and I can tell you it makes the world of difference, especially with a breed that has natural suspicion. Can you imagine being in a strange place and having someone charge at you, grab you and manhandle you? Vs. someone who talks to you first and puts you at ease?

You are already on the right track if you are doing classes Yay for you! You got this!


----------



## Grimm02

Jax08 said:


> ah yeah. Some vets, and techs, aren't to savvy with dogs. First, you don't know what other dogs behaved that way she may have encountered that day or week. Does not excuse her lack of professional tact with you but you might want to give them a little slack. I'm on pretty good terms with my vet and the techs there so I get to hear some of the stories.
> 
> Second, muzzle train your dog. I've muzzled a dog at the vet, usually she was to worried about the muzzle and we easily go thru the exam. It sounds like yours has quite a bit if anxiety during an exam? I'll shoot Jane a note and maybe she can give you tips on how to deal with it. She has a girl that has high anxiety at the vets as well.
> 
> How long have you had Grimm if this is your first vet visit? Do you have proof of previous vaccinations? What about his rabies? That is due at 1 yr for most states.
> 
> 
> 
> I get what you are saying here. I really do. Mine had an infected anal gland and screamed when the vet expressed it. I felt horrible but you need to take yourself out of the mentality. The techs and vets have a job to do. Don't put your dog in the "baby" category. They are dogs. Respect them for the species they are. Don't humanize him. *After all, they are pretty amazing creatures all on their own*.
> 
> If you were uptight over the handling, he is going to be even more anxious about it. I have one dog that I can not handle at the vet. Not because I can't physically but because she will hide behind us and it's a struggle. I leave the room. Vet and tech do their thing. I come back in and she's getting her belly rubbed with the vet on the floor with her. You have to have a vet you can trust, you need to know when to step aside and you need to learn how to tell your dog to cut the crap and he IS going to do this. So be confident and your dog will pick up on that. ( and that goes for the vet's frame of mind as well. if she was so busy telling him he was "naughty" then she was giving off all sorts of vibes as well)
> 
> In the meantime, find a vet that you like. Start taking him in just to get weighed and have the techs give him treats and then you leave. No stress, happy, happy, 5 minutes and out. Once you have control of him, have people start touching him (if that is safe to do!).
> 
> Learn how to hold your own dog for the vet. Mine has me hold my own dogs. And learn how to do it without letting sympathy get in the way. That hold on your dog is keeping the people safe and the dog safe. You can't have him jerking around biting someone and ripping a vein because they were drawing blood on him.
> 
> BTW...when my vets come into the room, they don't even pay attention to the dog. They don't make eye contact, they do nothing but talk to me. Even after all these years, that is still the routine. They let the dog sniff them. They'll quietly say hi to them. My previous vet did not do this and I can tell you it makes the world of difference, especially with a breed that has natural suspicion. Can you imagine being in a strange place and having someone charge at you, grab you and manhandle you? Vs. someone who talks to you first and puts you at ease?
> 
> You are already on the right track if you are doing classes Yay for you! You got this!


It's amazing that you mentioned the eye contact because you are SO right about it. Grimm and I went to another vet clinic in the area and she never made eye contact with him and it went beautifully! 

I totally agree with him picking up on how I'm feeling. I was so anxious before we went to the new vet- a mixture of lack of sleep and grimm was being testy that morning lol- I sat myself down for a few minutes and said THIS WILL GO GOOD. Don't stress out if he barks, because he will, relax your body be happy cheerful and the good leader Grimm needs you to be. I had previously spoken to the clinic and explained how our previous appointment went and my concerns, etc. They were accommodating, understanding, and made me feel comfortable.They gained his trust with lots of treats and he let them pick, probe, inject, and scrape him without issue. 
I'm so glad our second visit went well because those kind of interactions will help him become the wonderful social pup I know he can and will be. 

But he is UTD on shots, I do have past vet records, and he got another one while we were there. The vet prescribed antibiotics for his skin, and a medicated shampoo. She said it's probably food allergies but that was all she suggested as far as eliminating his skin condition. Typical, treat the symptoms not the cause. I switched his food to natural balance venison & sweet potato so hopefully that will help. The antibiotic prescribed is cephalexin 750mg a day. I only gave him 250mg this morning and after doing some research I decided to not give anymore to him. 
She recommended neutering him and that it needed to be done soon as he is over a year old. I plan on traveling to a larger city nearby to be able to discuss it with a holistic vet.

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful and informative responses. You guys are wonderful and have really helped me be a better mother to my grimm!


----------



## trcy

I took Kaleb to a reproductive specialist vet. She gave me several options. I think they were all mentioned here. She did say they could remove the retained testicle and give him a vasectomy. We opted to just have him neutered though.


----------



## Jax08

Grimm02 said:


> It's amazing that you mentioned the eye contact because you are SO right about it. Grimm and I went to another vet clinic in the area and she never made eye contact with him and it went beautifully!
> 
> I totally agree with him picking up on how I'm feeling. I was so anxious before we went to the new vet- a mixture of lack of sleep and grimm was being testy that morning lol- I sat myself down for a few minutes and said THIS WILL GO GOOD. Don't stress out if he barks, because he will, relax your body be happy cheerful and the good leader Grimm needs you to be. I had previously spoken to the clinic and explained how our previous appointment went and my concerns, etc. They were accommodating, understanding, and made me feel comfortable.They gained his trust with lots of treats and he let them pick, probe, inject, and scrape him without issue.
> I'm so glad our second visit went well because those kind of interactions will help him become the wonderful social pup I know he can and will be.
> 
> But he is UTD on shots, I do have past vet records, and he got another one while we were there. The vet prescribed antibiotics for his skin, and a medicated shampoo. She said it's probably food allergies but that was all she suggested as far as eliminating his skin condition. Typical, treat the symptoms not the cause. I switched his food to natural balance venison & sweet potato so hopefully that will help. The antibiotic prescribed is cephalexin 750mg a day. I only gave him 250mg this morning and after doing some research I decided to not give anymore to him.
> She recommended neutering him and that it needed to be done soon as he is over a year old. I plan on traveling to a larger city nearby to be able to discuss it with a holistic vet.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's thoughtful and informative responses. You guys are wonderful and have really helped me be a better mother to my grimm!


Super! Looks like you found your vet!

First, giving the abx and a possible reason without expanding on it, IMO, is not out of line. Give the abx a whirl. why would you NOT give the abx? That makes no sense. If he has a skin infection he needs it! And if the symptoms come back then work with the vet to find the allergy. And give probiotics 2 hours after the abx.

Second, neutering is what they do. I don't know why she feels it needs to be done soon if he's over a year? did she give a reason? BUT...get the information on just removing the retained testicle and take it to her. There is no reason this can't be done that way if that is what you choose.


----------



## Apexk9

wolfy dog said:


> At 2 years you could have the retained one removed and a vasectomy on the descended one. I had a GSD male in the past like that and it worked well.
> Currently my Collie pup of 4 months still has a retained one. If it remains that way, I will have it monitored and decide then if I have it removed or not. IMO we think way to easy about all these invasive procedures.


Mines got both balls up in his body and what I worry about the most is Testicle torsion.


----------



## Grimm02

Jax08 said:


> Super! Looks like you found your vet!
> 
> First, giving the abx and a possible reason without expanding on it, IMO, is not out of line. Give the abx a whirl. why would you NOT give the abx? That makes no sense. If he has a skin infection he needs it! And if the symptoms come back then work with the vet to find the allergy. And give probiotics 2 hours after the abx.
> 
> Second, neutering is what they do. I don't know why she feels it needs to be done soon if he's over a year? did she give a reason? BUT...get the information on just removing the retained testicle and take it to her. There is no reason this can't be done that way if that is what you choose.



I appreciate your opinion on the antibiotic, and my vet's as well. However, I personally do not believe he needs them. I feel like there are other alternatives and I am thankful for the vets advice and guidance on his skin issues. As I was not sure what exactly it was and what I needed to do.
He has hotspots most likely from food allergy. But of course they gave me little verbal information on that and give me meds to treat the symptoms not the cause.
I am observing it closely, and helping it to heal naturally before I decide to give him more medicine. Please know that If he TRULY needs medicine, I will provide it. I switched his food to natures balance venison & sweet potato, he gets yogurt daily, and I've stopped giving him treats, bones, etc. Until I can determine if this is helping.

My significant other is currently deployed and we would like to wait until he returns to have any kind of operation done. So next time I see the vet I will ask about how immediate it needs to be done. But as for Grimm he seems ok, gave him a bath in the medicated shampoo he seemed much happier after he got out, I'm assuming it felt nice on his irritated skin. I'm making sure he gets plenty of exercise that way he's not bored and decides to start scratching!


----------

