# 4health puppy food diarrhea



## jessielou34

We got our puppy Axel when he was 5 weeks 4 days old. ( I know too young to be away from his mommy but the guy was ready to get rid of him) He's been on 4 health puppy food ever since. He's 9 weeks 3 days old and he still has puppy diarrhea. It's like water and shoots out of him like a fountain. (gross i know) I'm thinking about maybe trying a different food, hes already been wormed and had his first round of puppy shots. He goes to the vet tomorrow for his second round and another fecal test and possible worming. Any advice on a better puppy food? He's very active and healthy weighs about 20 lbs or so.


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## selzer

How much are you feeding him?


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## onyx'girl

Welcome to the site!
Spend more for a few months and put him on some good nutrition while he needs it. If I fed kibble, I'd go with Wellness super 5mix large breed puppy or Fromm. 
You need to get that diarrhea stopped or he'll dehydrate. Not to mention his digestive tract is highly irritated. Be sure you talk with your vet about this(they will probably recommend Hills products for nutrition) I hope he smooths out soon, poor little baby! Would love to see pics too!


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## jessielou34

he eats roughly about 2 cups 3 times a day. 
Axel and Tasha now 9weeks


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## jessielou34

*Axel's pictures at 5 weeks when we first got him*

the other shepherd is my parents 5 year old female Tasha


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## JakodaCD OA

that is WAY to much food. My adult dogs don't get that, 

IF he's 9 weeks old, I would be feeding about 3/4 of a cup of food 3x a day..You are feeding him way to much, now whether that is the reason for his diarhea, it very well could be, but it could also be worms/giardia/coccidiosis..a number of things..


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## jessielou34

We have an appointment tomorrow for his vet , I was just wondering peoples opinions on 4health and if anyone else has experienced puppy diarrhea while using 4health.


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## selzer

4Health is fine food, but I agree, that is way too much food. Cut it in half at least, and I think you will probably see the stools form.


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## jessielou34

*Update after vet visit*

Just got back from the vet he said Axel is doing great. Suggested switching his food from 4health to science diet. He also said 2 cups 3 times a day is great for Axels size. He weighs 22 LBS. They gave him his shots and another round of wormer.


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## JakodaCD OA

he's 9 weeks old and weighs 22 lbs?? if so, he's way to hefty for my tastes.

Science Diet is crud food, full of corn and fillers, of course the vet wants you to change, they SELL it...and 2 cups 3x a day is WAY to much food for a 9 week old puppy,, I'm thinking you need to change vets


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## onyx'girl

LOL! How did we know that was going to happen....all vets push Hill's. Don't buy into it!!!


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## KAISER073012

Onyx'girl saw that coming hahaha!  I believe that Diane is correct, too much weight might cause structural damage to your dog. You can browse this wonderful website to learn more about dog food. Always look on the first three ingredients, more meat, much better. Avoid corn.


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## jessielou34

Thank you all for your opinions and suggestions they are very helpful.


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## msvette2u

I agree with the others - 22lb. is way too large for a 9 week old puppy...and Science Diet is horrible food.
Please pick up your bag of SD food and read the label. Keeping in mind we (in our rescue) recommend folks avoid corn, wheat, soy and by-products, what do you see on the label of Science Diet?

Now look at the label on the bag of 4health and what do you see there?

Also - I don't know if your puppy is fat or what, but a puppy that age should not be eating 6 c. of food per day. Puppies don't have the digestive enzymes to handle and process that much food which would cause diarrhea. As others said, 2-3 cups is more than sufficient for the puppy - and 2 feedings per day is also enough for a 9 week old, IMO.


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## jessielou34

*Axel is NOT fat*

Axel is not fat by any means. You can feel his ribs but not see them. He was the biggest in his litter. I read the ingredients in the science diet and decided against it. I DO still want to switch him from 4health because it obviously does not agree with him. The vet said for a puppy his size what i am feeding him is the right amount. For some reason I came on this forum for advise on dog foods and all people seem to keep saying is i am feeding him too much. (which i am not) I guess while people want to jump down my throat for saying the vet suggested science diet instead or people asking me if i am feeding it to Axel or trying to suggest a better brand I will just continue googleing food reviews and try different ones.  VERY disappointed in this forum.


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## onyx'girl

I suggested a couple foods that I'd feed(If I fed kibble) And personally, I would feed a 9 week old pup three times a day until about 16 weeks old, then drop that mid day meal.
Are Axel's stools firming up some today? There is a canned supplement from the Honest Kitchen called Perfectform. It will help firm up and contains slippery elm and other digestive aids to heal the gut. Hard to find it sometimes, though!


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## Zookeep

jessielou34 said:


> Axel is not fat by any means. You can feel his ribs but not see them. He was the biggest in his litter. I read the ingredients in the science diet and decided against it. I DO still want to switch him from 4health because it obviously does not agree with him. The vet said for a puppy his size what i am feeding him is the right amount. For some reason I came on this forum for advise on dog foods and all people seem to keep saying is i am feeding him too much. (which i am not) I guess while people want to jump down my throat for saying the vet suggested science diet instead or people asking me if i am feeding it to Axel or trying to suggest a better brand I will just continue googleing food reviews and try different ones.  VERY disappointed in this forum.


Every bag of dog food has a feeding guide on it which tells you how much you should be feeding. What does it say on the 4Health bag for a puppy of you dog's weight?


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## jessielou34

Thank you Onyx yes they are firming up today but hes been getting into the 5 year old GSD Tasha's food (purina one). I think I am going to go to redbird tomorrow and check out different foods.


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## jessielou34

Zookeep said:


> Every bag of dog food has a feeding guide on it which tells you how much you should be feeding. What does it say on the 4Health bag for a puppy of you dog's weight?


3 1/2 - 4 2/3 cups a day. I feed him roughly 2 cups 3 times a day.


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## Zookeep

Do you mean that you are feeding him 2 cups at each meal for a total of 6 cups a day?


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## jessielou34

roughly 2 cups three times a day he gets between 4-6 cups a day


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## Zookeep

I have a measuring cup in each of my dog food containers. I measure out the amount I want for each feeding. That way I know exactly how much each dog is getting. If I see a weight problem, I can adjust. To state the obvious, according to the bag, if you are feeding 4 cups you are within the range. If you are feeding 6 cups you are feeding almost 30 percent too much. That would be like me eating 3800 calories each day instead of 3000 calories.


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## onyx'girl

Don't forget to add in the training treats!


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## jessielou34

Zookeep said:


> I have a measuring cup in each of my dog food containers. I measure out the amount I want for each feeding. That way I know exactly how much each dog is getting. If I see a weight problem, I can adjust. To state the obvious, according to the bag, if you are feeding 4 cups you are within the range. If you are feeding 6 cups you are feeding almost 30 percent too much. That would be like me eating 3800 calories each day instead of 3000 calories.



I too have a measuring cup in the bag. I give him 2 cups with each feeding sometimes he eats it all sometimes he doesn't. I know he gets at least 4 cups but no more than 6. I did not come on here for advice on his weight he is healthy I came on here for brand of food advice. Axel is a big puppy bigger than our Tasha was at 9 weeks. He is tall and wide. So yes I adjust his food intake.


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## msvette2u

> 3 1/2 - 4 2/3 cups a day. I feed him roughly 2 cups 3 times a day.


So the bag of food suggests just over 4c. but you're feeding him 6c. per day? Even according to your bag that's too much.

Trust me, it is too much - our mature (17mo.) GSD eats 4c. per day, 2c. AM and 2c. PM.

That alone can cause diarrhea, it's not the food. Please cut back his food before you switch. 
If you switch to an extremely high quality food like Acana (a lot of protein), and continue to feed such huge amounts of food, your puppy _will_ be sick and also will probably grow too fast, which is bad for his skeleton.


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## msvette2u

jessielou34 said:


> the other shepherd is my parents 5 year old female Tasha


These photos do not look like a 22lb. puppy


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## Zookeep

You came here for advice, and some very experienced people are giving it to you. Msvette2u, Diane and Selzer know what they are talking about. Please listen to their advice.


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## msvette2u

Leerburg | Diarrhea in Puppies From leerburg--

_Pudding diarrhea can be caused from:

changing the food our dogs eat can cause diarrhea

*over feeding the dog can cause diarrehea *

eating garbage can cause diarrhea

stress can cause diarrhea

exercise or excitement can cause diarrhea_


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## BWilson

I think JESSIELOU34 understands that 6 cups is too much, and perhaps that picture of her pup is a week or two old, but some of you are downright aggressive in your replies. Like the moderator Jakoda suggesting coccidia or giardia. Don't you think her vet checked for that stuff? She said she had a vet appointment and a previous appointment with a fecal exam. Some of you did indeed offer the advice she requested- and thank you for that. However; I have seen some new members get treated very rudely by the GSD snobs here, so let's watch our manners and welcome this new member, as well as others that come here looking for advice.


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## selzer

BWilson said:


> I think JESSIELOU34 understands that 6 cups is too much, and perhaps that picture of her pup is a week or two old, but some of you are downright aggressive in your replies. Like the moderator Jakoda suggesting coccidia or giardia. Don't you think her vet checked for that stuff? She said she had a vet appointment and a previous appointment with a fecal exam. Some of you did indeed offer the advice she requested- and thank you for that. However; I have seen some new members get treated very rudely by the GSD snobs here, so let's watch our manners and welcome this new member, as well as others that come here looking for advice.


Ok, talk about being rude, we are GSD snobs. 

First off, I asked how much she is feeding because feeding too much WILL CAUSE diarrhea. That is the first thing I think of for that complaint. Usually, the bag wants you to feed TOO MUCH, so that you throw some away every day, and buy more food. So 3-4 cups per day, may already be a bit high. But, I actually agree with it if you are feeling ribs -- the 3-4 cups. 

First, knock down what you are feeding to 1 1/3 cup, three times a day and add a tablespoon of canned pumpkin. I think that will help a LOT on the stools.

Also, when the dog is over-eating, and producing liquid poo, the nutrients are going right through him. And he can actually LOSE weight. By reducing the amount he is eating, and getting a firmer stool, the digestive process will have removed more nutrients, and the dog will slowly gain some weight. 

4health puppy formula:
*Ingredients: *
Lamb, lamb meal, egg product, rice, millet, cracked pearled barley, pea protein, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, oatmeal, tomato pomace, ocean fish meal, flaxseed, natural flavor, salmon oil (source of DHA), potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, dried kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. *Guaranteed Analysis: *
Crude Protein 27.0% (min.), Crude Fat 15.0% (min.), Crude Fiber 3.0% (max.), Moisture 10.0% (max.), Calcium 1.2% (min.), Phosphorus 1.2% (max.), Phosphorus 1.0% (min.), Zinc 150 mg/kg (min.), Selenium 0.4 mg/kg (min.), Vitamin E 150 IU/kg (min.), L-Carnitine* 30 mg/kg (min.), Omega-6 Fatty Acids* 2.2% (min.), Omega-3 Fatty Acids* 0.3% (min.), DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid)* 0.05% (min.), 
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profile. 
*Caloric Content: *
3,656 kcal/kg (342 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy 

This stuff is not junk food, it is actually pretty good, Diamond Naturals large breed puppy: (made by the same company, pretty much the same formula, is another you can buy, and you can buy it anywhere -- not just at TSC. 

Diamond® Naturals™ Large Breed Puppy Lamb Meal & Rice Formula contains DHA for brain and eye development. 


Antioxidant Formulation
Omega Fatty Acids for Skin and Coat
Large Kibble Optimized for Large Breed Puppies
Ideal Protein and Fat Levels for Optimal Nutrition
No Wheat, No Corn, No Soy
Proper levels of protein, fat, calories and minerals will help your large breed puppy grow and thrive. Calcium and phosphorus provide ideal bone and joint development, and the addition of L-Carnitine helps convert fat to energy and develop lean body condition and strong bones. Also contains DHA for optimal brain and eye development. *Ingredients: *
Lamb, lamb meal, egg product, cracked pearled barley, millet, ground rice, pea protein, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, potatoes, tomato pomace, flaxseed, natural flavor, ocean fish meal, salmon oil (source of DHA), potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, dried kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. 
*Guaranteed Analysis: *
Protein: 27% Fat: 15% 
*Caloric Content: *
3,656 kcal/kg (342 kcal/cup) Calculated ME Sizes Available: 6 lb., 20 lb., 40 lb.


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## BWilson

Selzer- I wasn't talking about you. You offered the advice requested without being mean or judgmental. Gracious would be the word I'd use. Some others though, wow, they could be a little more polite. :thumbup:


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## msvette2u

BWilson said:


> I think JESSIELOU34 *understands that 6 cups is too much,* and perhaps that picture of her pup is a week or two old, but some of you are downright aggressive in your replies. * Like the moderator Jakoda suggesting coccidia or giardia. Don't you think her vet checked for that stuff? * She said she had a vet appointment and a previous appointment with a fecal exam. Some of you did indeed offer the advice she requested- and thank you for that. However; I have seen some new members get treated very rudely by the GSD snobs here, so let's watch our manners and welcome this new member, as well as others that come here looking for advice.


Actually, no I wasn't getting that impression at all; from the posts, I thought the OP believed that 6cups of food a day was fine for this puppy. 

As for Jakoda, many vets don't test stool, and even if they do or did, coccidia and giardia can cause issues without "shedding" in the stool. You'd see these type symptoms with either of those, and they can occur separately or together. The op never said the stool was tested, so it's assumed it may not have happened. Puppies can pick up cocci or giardia from rescues, pounds, backyard or "good" breeders. It's not really rude to suggest that testing.

I also don't think saying a puppy may in fact be getting too much to eat is "rude", and just because someone asks for one type of advice, doesn't mean that's the right advice and the OP may need to head down another path than the one they were thinking of going down; or at the very least, contemplate that path :shrug:


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## mebully21

if the puppy has loose stool on 4health, and ate some of the adult dogs purina and had firm stool, then its simple, switch the pup to a middle of the road food since the 4health is probably too rich for the pup, and also definitely cut down from 6 cups a day to at least 3 cups total instead... and if the pup eats the purina one and has solid stools then by all means feed the pup purina one.. sometimes the best food isnt the best for some dogs.... some dogs /pups cant handle a richer food ...
and to the OP, vets only take 1 semester of food courses in vet school, so they really have no clue about nutrition and will sell the foods the companies give to them (science diet, eukaneuba etc)

and NEVER follow the feeding guidelines on bags of dog food lol... if i followed the feeding guidelines on the merrick food i feed my 2 they would both be grossly obese.


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## GSDGunner

BWilson said:


> I think JESSIELOU34 understands that 6 cups is too much, and perhaps that picture of her pup is a week or two old, but some of you are downright aggressive in your replies. Like the moderator Jakoda suggesting coccidia or giardia. Don't you think her vet checked for that stuff? She said she had a vet appointment and a previous appointment with a fecal exam. Some of you did indeed offer the advice she requested- and thank you for that. However; I have seen some new members get treated very rudely by the GSD snobs here, so let's watch our manners and welcome this new member, as well as others that come here looking for advice.


First off, I saw no one being rude. There were genuinely trying to help. The amount of food she was feeding IS too much and the diarrhea is not the result of the food, just the amount.
So she changes food based on suggestions and is right back here with the same problem. Then what?
If anything I think everyone here bent over backwards to help this newbie. They are concerned for this puppy and it showed in the advice.
Food snobs? That's a shot below the belt. 

Note to the OP, the people here giving you advice have YEARS of experience with GSD's. I would give it some thought. You have a problem, they are giving you advice to help. Whether you want to hear it or not, the advice is there. Give it some thought please. 
By the way BWilson, you're both from MI, friends are ya?

Edit: Never mind, I see your her parent. 



BWilson said:


> *Selzer- I wasn't talking about you.* You offered the advice requested without being mean or judgmental. Gracious would be the word I'd use. Some others though, wow, they could be a little more polite. :thumbup:


Selzer gave the same advice about overfeeding as the others?


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## BWilson

to GSDGunner and MSvette-
OP's 1st post- "...hes already been wormed and had his first round of puppy shots. He goes to the vet tomorrow for his second round and *another fecal test*..."

Rude and/or Unsolicited comment:

*JakodaCD OA* "he's 9 weeks old and weighs 22 lbs?? if so, he's way to hefty for my tastes...I'm thinking you need to change vets"

msvette2u: "...22lb. is way too large for a 9 week old puppy..."
"These photos do not look like a 22lb. puppy "
"The op never said the stool was tested, so it's assumed"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You know, I recommended this forum to her becuase of the wealth of information contained in the thousands of posts, and after her first posting she asks me "Why did you want me to go on that site? Those people are just mean. I asked about one thing and they all started up on me about other stuff..." 

Just so you all know, both of Axel's parents are over 100#. He was the largest male in the litter. The vet thought he was actually a little underweight. She was over feeding and has since adjusted the amount down a little.

And yes, she is my daughter- so what! I've seen other new members get treated very badly by some of the "old heads" of this forum- I call them snobs. Heck, they even went after me for the way I introduced a new dog into the home. That just taught me to not post questions or statements about me or my pets on this board. I simply "troll" around and and search the various topics for the answer myself. And BTW, I am no newbie with the GSD, since I was a kid (I'm 54) I've had a total of 5, Axel being number 6. He is my daughter's family dog but they live in my house, so technically he's not mine. And as a retired Security Police Instructor, I've worked with a lot of the MWD's in the Air Force.

perhaps some of you could keep the "personal comments" out of the answer when answering THE QUESTION that was asked. That would go a long way to making people feel more welcomed. Rant complete.


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## JakodaCD OA

sorry your not liking my "unsolicited/rude" comment, I don't think I was rude, and this board is about voicing one's opinions.

The fact is, an 8 week old puppy shouldn't be weighing 22lbs unless he's a st bernard, fact is, it shouldn't be fed 6 cups of food a day. 

I think the OP got some good answers, and I don't see (maybe I missed it) if the vet did test for giardia/coccidia. 

Some people come here with questions, (not saying this was the op), and are looking for answers and when they don't hear what they want to hear, they don't like it. 

Since your friends with this person and have had gsd's for years, why not give her your opinion on her questions?


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## GSDGunner

BWilson said:


> to GSDGunner and MSvette-
> OP's 1st post- "...hes already been wormed and had his first round of puppy shots. He goes to the vet tomorrow for his second round and *another fecal test*..."
> 
> Rude and/or Unsolicited comment:
> 
> *JakodaCD OA* "he's 9 weeks old and weighs 22 lbs?? if so, he's way to hefty for my tastes...I'm thinking you need to change vets"
> 
> msvette2u: "...22lb. is way too large for a 9 week old puppy..."
> "These photos do not look like a 22lb. puppy "
> "The op never said the stool was tested, so it's assumed"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You know, I recommended this forum to her becuase of the wealth of information contained in the thousands of posts, and after her first posting she asks me "Why did you want me to go on that site? Those people are just mean. I asked about one thing and they all started up on me about other stuff..."
> 
> Just so you all know, both of Axel's parents are over 100#. He was the largest male in the litter. The vet thought he was actually a little underweight. She was over feeding and has since adjusted the amount down a little.
> 
> And yes, she is my daughter- so what! I've seen other new members get treated very badly by some of the "old heads" of this forum- I call them snobs. Heck, they even went after me for the way I introduced a new dog into the home. That just taught me to not post questions or statements about me or my pets on this board. I simply "troll" around and and search the various topics for the answer myself. And BTW, I am no newbie with the GSD, since I was a kid (I'm 54) I've had a total of 5, Axel being number 6. He is my daughter's family dog but they live in my house, so technically he's not mine. And as a retired Security Police Instructor, I've worked with a lot of the MWD's in the Air Force.
> 
> perhaps some of you could keep the "personal comments" out of the answer when answering THE QUESTION that was asked. That would go a long way to making people feel more welcomed. Rant complete.


Wow! 


> I asked about one thing and they all started up on me about other stuff..."


Everything I read was related, not "other stuff". Maybe next time you/she asks a question you'll get a good one liner. Or nothing at all. If you thought any of that was rude, I suggest you take a second look. 
The comments you quoted were rude? They were anything but!

I know you're being protective of your daughter, but calling people rude because of their opinions is just plain wrong. 
You may have experience in this breed, but so do all the people who offered advice.


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## GSDGunner

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think the OP got some good answers, and I don't see (maybe I missed it) if the vet did test for giardia/coccidia.


It was asked but the OP never answered.


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## msvette2u

> Since your friends with this person and have had gsd's for years, why not give her your opinion on her questions?


This was my question as well...especially after the "intros gone bad" in another thread, which apparently wasn't what BW wanted to hear, either. 

I don't think the puppy in the photo in post 4 is underweight, and if any vet thinks so, they have a skewed view of ideal weight. Perhaps, as folks often do, a current photo could be posted to get a better idea of his body score, as it can be difficult to judge it on a photo where a dog is lying down.

My own dogs are kept very slender and many folks believe they are "skinny" yet at the vet they get perfect body score ratings ("3" which is ideal body weight).

22lbs. is very chunky for a 9 week old puppy and at that rate of growth, and/or being overweight is going to take it's toll on that puppy's joints.

Our GSD pup at 18mos., has had elbow dysplasia since he was approximately 6mos. of age. 
As much of it can be (and probably is) genetic I don't think there's a day goes by that I don't wish we'd slowed his growth somehow a little bit but we'll never know now, will we? He was never overweight, but did grow quickly once placed on a quality diet; his diet was bad when we got him, we could tell from his body score and also his hair coat. 

Your daughter has the chance now to feed the puppy less, and make sure he's not overweight, or keep doing what she's doing and keep having a puppy with diarrhea and potential joint issues down the road from too rapid of growth.

We would be remiss to not mention to her that she's feeding too much to the puppy, and simply advise about foods; as Linda mentioned, if we don't say something about it, the puppy may continue to have diarrhea on any food he's given, not to mention, the joint issues and other health issues that can arise from being too fat.


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## jessielou34

Axel is eating 1 cup 4Health and 1/3 cup purina 1 , 3 times a day now his stools have formed and hes doing fine. Just to state one more thing before i am done with this forum FOREVER The OP said roughly 2 cups three time a day Roughly meaning not a full 2 cups you people are the most rude people i have ever had the displeasure of talking to I also did previously state he had a fecal done and was getting another. Thank you all for making this forum a very disappointing experiance for me if i have any further questions about MY puppy I waill ask my dad, vet, or google. Good Day!


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## Castlemaid

Well, I'm glad to see that all the unsolicited advice has helped your puppy. Good for you for paying attention and taking it into consideration. Now since the problem is solved, we can lock the thread.


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