# Fear aggression? Territorial aggression? I really don't know. Looking for advice.



## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I've had my rescue for over a month now. He is a 2-3 year old neutered male white German Shepherd. He was very fearful from the start... when we went to pick him up from his foster home he hid in his crate and his foster mother had to coax him out and leash him for us.

He was very head shy at first and would cower and yelp when my boyfriend tried to pet him, sometimes pee in submission. He took to me very quickly and has bonded well. I can tell he 100% trusts me. He has also been warming up to my boyfriend over the past month but is still fearful. All in all though, when it comes down to it, I am his person.

I know this dog wasn't properly socialized as a pup because he was found tied in a yard, underweight with scratches. We believe he might have been physically abused as well. I knew this would take a lot of hard work and was surprised how quickly he warmed up to me. He is also very hyper/excitable.

I have been taking the "nothing in life is free" approach with him. I have him sit before meals, sit before I leash him, sit every few blocks when walking him and will not continue until he listens. He definitely needed work with manners but is getting better. We do a lot of obedience training and he is very clever and quick to learn... I've already taught him sit, paw, lay down, dead, stay, and focus in the short time he's been with us. I take him on a long walk every day and we play a lot together. Overall I believe I've been consistent with him and he listens to me well... unless there are other people around, mostly in the home.

It's like he goes into some sort of blind rage and won't stop barking/lunging towards our guests! He will listen when I call and calm down for only a few seconds until they make a sudden movement and it starts all over again. At first I thought maybe it was territorial aggression now that he is established in our home, but I'm starting to have my doubts after reading up on it. He is not stiff or rigid, he does not growl. He just does this constant high-pitched bark while pulling towards the person. The closer the person gets, the more desperate he sounds, although his tail is not tucked. His hackles are not raised. My guests are actually scared of my dog. I am afraid he might bite someone because he has already tried to nip.

Some notes/things I have tried:

1) Keeping him on a leash in the same room and having my guests ignore him. He will calm down and lay with me but as soon as they make a sudden movement he will start with the barking/suddenly lunge towards them. It doesn't matter how many times this specific person has been over. It's like it's the first time every time. It is not an option to keep him off leash with this approach because he will run at them as if he is going to bite. If they are SITTING DOWN he will remain calm for the most part but as soon as they reach for a drink or stand up the madness ensues.

2) Having my guests feed him treats and calmly approach him. He will take the treat and calm down for a while but just like in the first scenario, he freaks out if they come close or make any sudden movements. It's like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I can never be sure if he is actually calm or if he's going to start with the barking/lunging. There seems to be no warning at all. If the person stays a safe distance from him he won't bark but you can tell he is on edge and nervous.

3) Being firm with him and calling him over, giving a firm "no." It will work for a minute and he will come to me and sit but as soon as they move again he forgets I am there. I was skeptical about this because I have a feeling it is a fear based aggression and I've read the last thing you want to do is upset an already frightened dog.

5) He does this sometimes outside of the house as well. If he sees a person or dog coming from a distance he is completely fine but if they surprise him/come suddenly he freaks out just like he does at home. When I have him out with the leash I do the firm sideways tug on the leash and it calms him down long enough for us to get away from the person. He seems to dislike people holding things (fisherman at the lake) and people with hats. Mostly though he is okay in public, just nervous. I take him to the pet store with me and I've never had an issue.

We have worked tirelessly trying to get him socialized but it seems as if nothing we do works. My mother was over yesterday for Mother's Day and I had no option but to crate him where he continued to bark his head off. If he can see the person from his crate it doesn't stop. If I let him out of the crate he will quiet down but I feel as if I can't trust him to be let off leash and should not have to ask my guests to sit calmly on the couch and not move! He seems to feel more comfortable around certain people.

I do not have the money right now for a personal trainer. I am just looking for advice from those who might be experienced in the aggression field. I know it is hard to give advice online without seeing the dog but it couldn't hurt to try. I want to be able to have guests come in my home without the dog freaking out.

He is very attached to his crate and will run there when anything at all frightens him. If my boyfriend stands suddenly, he runs to the crate. Do you think I should try shutting or removing it so he doesn't have that safety net? Would this make it better or worse?

I've looked into correctional collars but I do not want it to have to come to that.

Any advice at all is appreciated. Giving my dog up is not an option, he is my best friend, I couldn't ask for a better dog. Loyal as ****, smart, affectionate. I just want him to feel at ease around people and be able to enjoy having friends over.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Did he act like this in his foster home? How did his foster home handle it and did they warn you that he has aggression issues? To me it sounds like fear aggression but I'm no expert. I know you said you couldn't afford a private trainer but that is the best way to have his behavior evaluated because that will change how you work with him.


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

sashadog said:


> Did he act like this in his foster home? How did his foster home handle it and did they warn you that he has aggression issues? To me it sounds like fear aggression but I'm no expert. I know you said you couldn't afford a private trainer but that is the best way to have his behavior evaluated because that will change how you work with him.


He was not like this in his foster home because they only had him for about a week. He was just extremely frightened and shy. This behaviour didn't start in our home until we had him for about 2 weeks.

I will make it work and find a way to hire a trainer if I can not fix this on my own. Just looking for advice for now from others who might be experienced.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

It sounds like fear aggression. My German Shepherd is the exact same way. I got him at 4 months old un-socialized (4 months is the deadline for socialization), and I think it's in his genetics too (he is now 2 years old and doing much better!). 
When people come to our house, he barks a big, deep bark and growls (though when he is doing this, the hair on his back rises, but his tail is raised high in the air). After a couple minutes, he stops barking and walks around like he doesn't notice them (ONLY if the people ignore him completely. If they look, touch, or talk to him, he starts barking and growling again). 
No matter how many times a person comes over, he never trusts them and seems to think they are a total stranger all over again, so he barks and growls. 

Like you are already doing, don't let people look at him, touch him, or talk to him; this will make the situation worse. 
Try holding him on a leash when guests are present (with the guests ignoring your dog). Give him commands in public places or when there are people around, and have training sessions in places where there are people present (don't go into a croud of people, just on the outskirts of them). 
Keep giving your guests food to feed to your dog, this also builds trust. 
If your dog is ever scared, never make him face his fears. Don't pull on the leash to get him closer to what he's afraid of, let him approach by himself.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

You are almost describing Woolf at one point in his life, now only occasionally.

Please plan on getting a behaviorist involved as soon as you are able to. Be sure they are experienced with GSD and large working breeds. Check past and current clientele. You have to be comfortable with them as well as they will actually be training you to work with your dog.

In the meantime, it is a serious case of management. When guests come in, be sure your dog is leashed or crated. Your guests do not look, talk to him or attempt to touch him. You can give your guests treats to toss to him, again just with an indirect look to toss. I would not encourage any further contact then this until after he is evaluated and work has begun.

When we began our adventure with Woolf, it seemed he would just explode without warning. With time and training, we recognized the smaller indications he was giving. Tightening of the facial muscles around the eyes, mouth. Hard focus on the person or dog. Standing up tall, ultra alert. This would happen in sometimes just seconds. Then would come what seems like an explosion. Try watching for those physical changes as well so you can redirect his attention before he reacts.

The fear your guests are feeling may be affecting your dog also. If you have a guest over that is obviously fearful and just isn't able to settle down with you, the best and safest move to make is crate your dog. My 2 are spoiled dogs  , we actually gave them their own bedroom lol. It's much easier on Woolf when we do have to crate him, if he is separated from the activity instead being in the middle of it and crated.

Training collars such as prongs and ecollars only ramped up Woolf's reaction. What we use with him is a martingale and in some cases, a Canny Collar.

BAT 

NILIF

LAT

Dog Body Language Diagrams 

Mind Games

Protocol for Relaxation

BAT Blog

Also check into BowWowFlix. A DVD rental source similar to Netflix. Many good DVDs available there on behavioral issues.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I would also suggest a muzzle while doing this just as extra security. A basket muzzle so that he can still pant, drink, and take treats but won't be able to bite anyone. 

Also, another thing that is often suggested on here but I haven't done myself as I haven't had a new rescue in years, is the two week shut down. It basically gives dogs a chance to chill out and take in their surroundings after such a tumultuous time, like being bounced around from home to home. It also helps build trust and gives dogs a chance to adapt at their speed. I would search for "two week shutdown" on here and implement it right away. This won't solve his problems but it will probably help and at the very least give you some time to figure out how to handle his fear before jumping into a bunch of different methods. Good luck! I know it can be stressful


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> It sounds like fear aggression. My German Shepherd is the exact same way. I got him at 4 months old un-socialized (4 months is the deadline for socialization), and I think it's in his genetics too (he is now 2 years old and doing much better!).
> When people come to our house, he barks a big, deep bark and growls (though when he is doing this, the hair on his back rises, but his tail is raised high in the air). After a couple minutes, he stops barking and walks around like he doesn't notice them (ONLY if the people ignore him completely. If they look, touch, or talk to him, he starts barking and growling again).
> No matter how many times a person comes over, he never trusts them and seems to think they are a total stranger all over again, so he barks and growls.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advice! It is reassuring to know that I'm at least on the right track. Like you said, the approach that seems to work best is having my guests ignore him and casually handing him a treat if he gets curious and comes over on his own. This is impossible with certain people that he seems to really dislike though (my friend Dave and my mother... he can't stand them!) and will bark regardless. My mother naturally has a very nervous energy and he can most likely sense that.

Thinking of everything the poor boy has been through, I don't blame him for not trusting people. I'm amazed that he is already so trusting of me. He lets me wrap my arms around him for hugs and cuddles up to me on the couch which is something my father's GSD that I grew up with would never allow me to do. I am grateful for this.

I can accept the fact that he will never be that way with strangers (I wouldn't want him to be) but seeing how upset he gets upsets me! I try not to show it and remain calm and confident but it breaks my heart. The way he behaves reminds me of a dog version of a panic attack... like seeing certain people triggers bad memories and sets him into a blind panic/rage. You would think he was being murdered if you were to hear him from outside when (certain) people come up to him. Others, not so much.

I hope with continued training he can at least get to the point where he will tolerate people and be able to recognize when someone is obviously not a threat.


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

sashadog said:


> I would also suggest a muzzle while doing this just as extra security. A basket muzzle so that he can still pant, drink, and take treats but won't be able to bite anyone.
> 
> Also, another thing that is often suggested on here but I haven't done myself as I haven't had a new rescue in years, is the two week shut down. It basically gives dogs a chance to chill out and take in their surroundings after such a tumultuous time, like being bounced around from home to home. It also helps build trust and gives dogs a chance to adapt at their speed. I would search for "two week shutdown" on here and implement it right away. This won't solve his problems but it will probably help and at the very least give you some time to figure out how to handle his fear before jumping into a bunch of different methods. Good luck! I know it can be stressful


Thank you so much! I will definitely look into the two week shutdown. I'm willing to try anything at this point.


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

Twyla said:


> You are almost describing Woolf at one point in his life, now only occasionally.
> 
> Please plan on getting a behaviorist involved as soon as you are able to. Be sure they are experienced with GSD and large working breeds. Check past and current clientele. You have to be comfortable with them as well as they will actually be training you to work with your dog.
> 
> ...


Thank you! THIS is what I was looking for. I've been having a hard time finding someone who has gone through the same thing with their dog. I will definitely be checking these links out thoroughly when I get home from work.

I've been keeping his crate in the dining room which connects to the living room; he is not in direct contact with our guests when crated but can still see/hear them. Maybe I should try moving it upstairs and removing him completely when I have my more nervous guests over and only bring him out to work with my more relaxed guests. I can usually tell if I will be able to calm him down enough to leave him out (and by "out" I mean on the leash at all times, just out of his crate).

I know we have a lot of hard work ahead of us and it has only been a few weeks. I will definitely be looking into a behaviorist as soon as I possibly can.

Thank you again, I appreciate this so much.


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## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

May I suggest that among other things you look at the Yahoo group ShyK9
shy-k9s : shy-k9s

We found it very helpful for our wonderful, fearful, adopted GSD.

Good luck.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

wester1031 said:


> I've been keeping his crate in the dining room which connects to the living room; he is not in direct contact with our guests when crated but can still see/hear them. Maybe I should try moving it upstairs and removing him completely when I have my more nervous guests over and only bring him out to work with my more relaxed guests. I can usually tell if I will be able to calm him down enough to leave him out (and by "out" I mean on the leash at all times, just out of his crate).
> 
> I know we have a lot of hard work ahead of us and it has only been a few weeks. I will definitely be looking into a behaviorist as soon as I possibly can.
> 
> Thank you again, I appreciate this so much.


The dining room is where the crates were to begin with, we thought separate but still there so it's good. Just by moving them made a huge difference. Woolf is no longer staying in a high state of tension the entire time someone is here, it gives the guest a time to relax enough so that we are able to bring him out with some of them that in an earlier time it just wouldn't be possible. 

Here's another link  We used Crate Games for the self control it teaches. Also here's the first of a multi-part


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

Mary Jane said:


> May I suggest that among other things you look at the Yahoo group ShyK9
> shy-k9s : shy-k9s
> 
> We found it very helpful for our wonderful, fearful, adopted GSD.
> ...


I will definitely check this out. Thank you!


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

Twyla said:


> The dining room is where the crates were to begin with, we thought separate but still there so it's good. Just by moving them made a huge difference. Woolf is no longer staying in a high state of tension the entire time someone is here, it gives the guest a time to relax enough so that we are able to bring him out with some of them that in an earlier time it just wouldn't be possible.
> 
> Here's another link  We used Crate Games for the self control it teaches. Also here's the first of a multi-part YouTube


Yay! I will definitely try moving his crate upstairs. He seems to get worse if people walk through that area because they're invading his safe spot and he feels cornered. If it is upstairs it will give him time to calm down while our guests settle and once we have him downstairs it is one less thing for him to worry about... now that I think of it, he is constantly glancing back towards that darn crate. Can't believe I held off trying this for so long  I guess I was worried since he is most content in that room and so used to it being in there. He will just have to adjust to it being upstairs. I have an extra bedroom I can use just for him.

So excited to check out all of these links later. You're great.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

You've been given some great advice. I would put the crate so that no-one has to walk past it - in a corner is a good place. 

Don't let anyone approach him - and let guests toss treats behind him - so that he has to move away from them to fetch them -that will make him feel more relaxed, and not tempted to go closer than he or your guests can handle. 

Perhaps try covering the crate if he's too stressed.
___________
Sue


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## wester1031 (Apr 5, 2012)

jakes mom said:


> You've been given some great advice. I would put the crate so that no-one has to walk past it - in a corner is a good place.
> 
> Don't let anyone approach him - and let guests toss treats behind him - so that he has to move away from them to fetch them -that will make him feel more relaxed, and not tempted to go closer than he or your guests can handle.
> 
> ...


Definitely! Everyone here has been so helpful. I'm going to try keeping his crate upstairs in our spare bedroom and see if that helps. I've been wanting to try it for a while now but was skeptical... now feeling more confident that I've been taking the right approach after seeing everyone's responses.

My mother was determined to "get him to like her" and kept trying to force herself on him when they first met. No wonder he seems to dislike her more than anyone else that comes over.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i have a dog like this. took lots of work and good training help for him. he was very uncomfortable with people. he is a fearful unsure dog, which is the worst to deal with. lots of time and commitment for sure.
first of all inside smaller spaces are very hard for these dogs. they feel they can't get away, so they react.
i started working obedience, and focus outside with people. i would have people line up spaced apart and i would have him heal as i carried his tug (high value toy) and i made it fun. we would weave in and out of the people healing, giving some space as we passed them, constantly keeping his attention on me. eventually once he was confortable with that i would heal him and come stand beside a person, and make him sit, then move on to the next person and repeat. once he was comfortable with that i would walk up to within a few feet of a person, make him sit and focus. if he looked at the person and then back at me i would reward. then eventuallu i would walk up to a person make him down stay beside the person and walk away, his attention was totally on me. then i would come back and reward. eventually since he has a high value toy, his tug, people were able to enteract with him by throwing his toy for him. he would at first bring the toy back to me no matter who threw it, and i ignored him, and he then would take it to the person to throw again. this all took alot of time and slow stages. he is alot more comfortable outside than inside and i used that to start the training process with people.
the rule inside is people come in and sit down, i tell them to ignore him, he will go sniff them and then go lay down. he did bark at them in the beginning when anyone moved, but i would call him to me make him sit and distract him. he also had a foot fetish, which i have No idea where it came from. if someone would move their feet or cross and uncross their legs, he would go attack their feet. he has never even looked at our feet, its other peoples feet. not sure if he thought they were going to kick him or what, and he has never been kicked. So, i would start tossing chicken his favorite around peoples feet. after time he has associated feet with yummie chicken and doesn't seem to have any issues now. once in a while if i see him focusing on anyones feet i will redirect. all in all, he has become much better with people, he will never be the type of dog that will allow someone to get touchy feely with him, but will tolerate a quick pat on the back or a touch on the side of his head. not crazy about someone standing over him and patting head on. you just have to watch them, figure out what works, and it takes trial and error to get there.
if we see a stranger outside and they are approaching us, i will take charge and finish the approach within a few feet, make him sit immediately and focus on me, stand and talk to the stranger, etc. my recommendation would be to get with a really good private trainer and progress to some of these exercises. he needs to be able to trust that you will hande things and you are in charge. you can get to a better place if you are persistant with the right help. working with a trainer can give you the knowledge and confidence to handle things better.


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## jade_14 (Sep 21, 2011)

My boy is similar to this as well. I think it is a combination of territorial and fear aggression. He was a very shy pup, and while I did a ton of socialization outside of the home, I didn't do as much inside the home, which I really regret now! He is very territorial, in the yard and in the house, though he is fine in public for the most part as I lived downtown in a busy city with him while he was young which did wonders for him. 
If he heard someone knock or ring the doorbell he goes crazy, barking viciously. What I usually do is remove him from the room. Make him sit and be quiet(using a high desirable treat - like cheese or hotdog pieces), and then once they're inside sitting down, he is allowed to go in and greet them. This works well, he is trusted without a leash once they're inside. It's the whole getting him to be quiet and not charging the door when they're coming in the house. 
I actually have recently met with a trainer who recommended I take a class she is offering in a couple weeks that is for dogs with anxiety. He finds it very hard to settle down and relax when he hears people come to the door. He also needs to learn to listen to me no matter what, and be quiet when I tell him to. I'm hoping these classes will help me. She did recommend putting him in the crate before meeting people, but unfortunately my house isn't set up well enough to have the crate by the door or in the living room. But it's good that you are doing that! 
I would definitely recommend atleast an obedience class for him, it would help you and him to create a better bond (not saying you dont already have one!), but it would help him trust and listen to you. If that's too much excitement for him, then maybe saving up for a personal trainer is what would be the best thing to do.
Good luck, I know how you feel and it's very stressful. I am envious of people who can answer the door to a stranger and have their dog behave lol.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

How are the changes you have made so far working out?


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## KentuckyGSDLover (Nov 17, 2011)

Just read this entire thread and it is invaluable. This describes Rey as well. It appears more than a few of us are in the same boat, so we're not as alone as we sometimes feel. It's hopeful to read from others that it can get better and our work with our dogs is not in vain.


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