# Looking for working dog



## shmoab (Dec 11, 2008)

Real close to purchasing from http://www.HausBrezel.com or http://www.cqbk9.com (only if progeny of Hard Policia). Have any of you opinions of these two breeders or suggestions of another breeder producing large working dogs? TIA


BTW Hello to all, you can call me Sandy.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Aside from a working dog what TYPE of work (or sport) are you looking for? 

What individual qualities are you looking for in a dog?


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## shmoab (Dec 11, 2008)

A loyal, protective, athletic, active, family dog that likes to wrestle and that doesn't smoke or drink. lol Really though, a friend of mine has two GSDs from cqbk9.com that I love the heck out of. I've only had Siberian Huskies. My Husky girl died over a year ago and now I'm ready for another dog. One that's bigger, easier to take off leash, more protective, playful, etc. basically my friend's dog, Boreck http://www.cqbk9.com/mpg/boreck.html , for myself.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Well, I'm no expert and will not comment on the breeders because I'm not qualified to do that. 

I would just like to say that GSD's are natually protective about their families. I don't have to "hire protection" as I feel very confident that should the need ever arise, my not-trained-for-protection GSD (a rescue!) would just do what comes naturally. The only reason I lock my doors anymore when we're all home is that an intruder might have a gun and shoot my dog. Any fool that tries to get into my house will find a furball with teeth coming at him. 

You might find exactly what you're looking for by going through a rescue.


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## shmoab (Dec 11, 2008)

A rescue is where I got my two Sibe's, my mother got her two and where I volunteered for 3 years. I know rescues, believe me. This time, however, I want a puppy where I know it's pedigree and can mold it from the earliest possible..


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## shmoab (Dec 11, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: shmoabA loyal, protective, athletic, active, family dog that likes to wrestle and that doesn't smoke or drink. lol Really though, a friend of mine has two GSDs from cqbk9.com that I love the heck out of. I've only had Siberian Huskies. My Husky girl died over a year ago and now I'm ready for another dog. One that's bigger, easier to take off leash, more protective, playful, etc. basically my friend's dog, Boreck http://www.cqbk9.com/mpg/boreck.html , for myself.


By bigger I mean ~100lbs.


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## DrDoom (Nov 7, 2007)

Well, I certainly understand that. I absolutely adore Bear. He's my best friend, and the best dog I've ever had. I don't know if he would protect us or not, but I lean towards not. That's ok though. He's seriously scary looking, which is good enough for me. He does bark when he thinks something isn't where it's supposed to be, which is also cool.
Still, as I said, I certainly understand wanting a puppy. PART of me wants to go that route on the next one too. Preferably while Bear is still around. Another part of me thinks we have had it SO easy with Bear though, that maybe I'm fooling myself to think I'm ready for a puppy. With bear, a crate has NEVER been necessary, even keeping the house clean hasn't. He doesn't mess with anything, and he's at a stage in his life where he is completely happy with a two mile walk everyday. A puppy, I know, is going to be far more work, lol.


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## Keegan62 (Aug 17, 2008)

Riely's Mom

So well said


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: shmoab
> By bigger I mean ~100lbs.


Be careful with that one. 100lb can be quite a bit out of the standard. A GSD is a medium-large dog. I think males are about 70-90 tops, females slightly smaller. My female is purebred working lines, standard height, and 55lbs. No one has ever made a move towards me or my house!

I believe the DDR/Czech dogs are heaver in bone and have massive heads. They should *look* a lot larger and more formidable than they actually weigh. 

Breeders breeding dogs in excess of 100lbs are breeding outside of the standard which is not good because what other things are they being lazy abot? Poor temperament? Bad hips?....


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: shmoabReal close to purchasing from http://www.HausBrezel.com or http://www.cqbk9.com (only if progeny of Hard Policia). Have any of you opinions of these two breeders or suggestions of another breeder producing large working dogs? TIA
> 
> 
> BTW Hello to all, you can call me Sandy.


Don't have time right now to look at the second website, but Haus Brezel is highlines or showlines....

Lee


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## Branca's Mom (Mar 26, 2003)

Are you getting a puppy or a trained adult?

I've seen a lot of haus bezel dogs. They are probably great family pets but I, personally, wouldn't be looking for a pup out of them to do much protection work.

If you get an adult, you will have a much better shot of knowing what you are getting if you have the funds to do that.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm off to work but it sounds from a post above that the OP isn't looking for a working dog in the sense of it would be SAR, K9, Schutzhund, etc


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Beside what Lies said about dogs over 100lbs, also be aware that a LOT of the GSDS that are over 100 lbs are FAT. Especially those that are within the standard for size.


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## shmoab (Dec 11, 2008)

You are correct. 
Like I said I want my friends dog. He won't give him to me so I'm trying to find one very similar to him. There will be no competitions, shows etc. only training.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Clearly not an expert, but those 2 kennels look like 2 different kettles of fish to me...West German Show and Czech Working lines. With 2 options like that you really need to consider what kind of work you want to put into the dog and what your expected outcome is. People are forever commenting on how wonderful my 2 are...but we put ALOT of work into them very early on. I've seen litter mates that went to less experienced people that became very challenging to handle. 

Also, 100 lbs is a VERY large GSD if it's in working shape. 

The biggest working shepherd I've ever seen was 95 pounds and he was an enormous DDR dog with legs like a Mastiff. I think a dog around 85 lbs is closer to where you want to be and generally more structurally sound.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Why don't you check out the breeder of the dog you like? Are the dog's parents still being bred? A full sib would be your best chance of a similar dog.



> Quote:Breeders breeding dogs in excess of 100lbs are breeding outside of the standard which is not good because what other things are they being lazy abot? Poor temperament? Bad hips?....


Liesje, many breeders of large GSDs aren't 'lazy breeders'. They're deliberately selecting for large size. IF they're conscientious, knowledgeable breeders, they're also selecting for healthy, long lived, stable, easily trained dogs with excellent temperaments & loads of personality.

Any GSD breeder being considered s/b thoroughly & carefully assessed as to the dogs s/he's produces, & the support that will be provided. This is as true of working or show lines as it is of companion lines. Health & temperament problems aren't restricted to a particular type. Nor are ignorant & greedy breeders.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I wouldn't call ANY breeder that deliberately selects for large size conscientious. 

And there is no such thing as "companion lines" in a working dog, though many working dogs that have been responsibly bred for correct size, temperament, health, and working ability will make outstanding companions. No need for breeders to "dumb down" a working breed breed to appeal to the lowest denominator in the general public.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesday
> 
> 
> > Quote:Breeders breeding dogs in excess of 100lbs are breeding outside of the standard which is not good because what other things are they being lazy abot? Poor temperament? Bad hips?....
> ...


Well, most of the oversized dogs I've seen advertised as breeding dogs are fat and/or out of condition. Hardly in working condition as a breeding GSD should be. How can they prove they are fine, healthy working dogs if they are so large? There's a difference between a dog of substance and a dog that is obviously over standard and/or fat. Heavier bone and strong heads for example. Many people have looked at my Nikon and are convinced he's going to be HUGE. Yet his dam and sire are within the standard and his sire is actually medium sized, but has a masculine head and heavy bone. With a breed as popular as the GSD, I simply do not see ANY reason why a good breeder would intentionally breed a dog not within the standard. Which good breeders are selecting 100lb+ dogs? I would like to know.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

There are GSDs bred to provide families with outstanding companions. They are not suited to schutzhund or show, although many excel as therapy dogs & some do well in S&R or as assistance dogs. IMO, they're neither working lines, nor show lines so I consider them companion lines. IF there's better terminology I'll be happy to employ it.



> Quote:I wouldn't call ANY breeder that deliberately selects for large size conscientious.


We'll have to agree to disagree. IMO breeders working to improve health, longevity & temperament are conscientious, especially considering the health problems rampant in the breed.




> Quote:No need for breeders to "dumb down" a working breed breed to appeal to the lowest denominator in the general public.


Again, we need to agree to disagree. IMO, companion GSD skills can be different, but they're not 'dumbed down' or lesser dogs.

Liesje, I agree that many dogs advertized as over sized, are in fact fat. That's neither healthy, nor desirable, however it doesn't equate to the hip & temperament problems you alluded to in your initial post.

Many people prefer a GSD within the standard. Mine is for one considerably taller. Fortunately, healthy, sound GSDs are available that suit both preferences.


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

I would think there would be some breeders breeding for larger size GSD's without them breeding poor quality dogs. I think some people just like very large dogs. After all, say for example some of the smaller breeds like Yorkies used to be bred for like 13-15lbs but over the years they really downsized them. To my knowledge this did not make for any more inferiority than what you get through general breeding of any breed anyway. Some good quality, some not so good. I do know that 100lbs is way more GSD than I would ever want! LOL!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesday
> 
> Liesje, I agree that many dogs advertized as over sized, are in fact fat. That's neither healthy, nor desirable, however it doesn't equate to the hip & temperament problems you alluded to in your initial post.


Nope, but they too often go hand in hand. The breeders advertising over sized dogs are the ones that give you a blank stare when you ask about OFAs, or what titles they've put on their dogs. A dog does not have good hips and solid temperament just because THAT person thinks so. Too often these breeders don't have a clue how to acurately judge these things in the first place. As someone else already pointed out, the largest dogs I've seen being titled and bred were maybe 90-95 lbs and to me that's stretching it but it would depend on the condition and bone of the dog. There was a few larger dogs at NASS and everyone was making comments about it under their breath, I believe the judge also noted that we need to keep size in check. These dogs were still nothing in size compared to some dogs I've seen breeders use as breeding dogs. Size IS very important for a working dog who can reasonably be expected to work/gait for hours on end every day. 



> Quote:There are GSDs bred to provide families with outstanding companions. They are not suited to schutzhund or show, although many excel as therapy dogs & some do well in S&R or as assistance dogs. IMO, they're neither working lines, nor show lines so I consider them companion lines. IF there's better terminology I'll be happy to employ it.


Quite frankly, my term would be backyard breeding. The GSD is a working/herding dog, not intended to be bred solely for companionship. There are other breeds better suited and bred for that purpose.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I agree with Lies on this.

If someone wants a 100lb plus dog, there are many breeds to choose from that are supposed to be that way. If someone wants a 100lb long coated dog (two traits often bred together) again there are many breeds to choose from. If someone wants a laid back, soft, submissive, couch potato, with low drive, low aggression, no work ethic, etc... again, many breeds to choose from that are supposed to exhibit those characteristics. 

Nothing wrong with someone wanting those traits in a dog. Such a dog is indeed more suited for the lifestyle, experience, knowledge and expectations of most companion homes. There are many breeds that do fit those criteria. Heck, the Shiloh Shepherd was created just for that purpose... for people who want those traits, in a package with a GSD type appearance.

I would much rather see people going to breeds that fit those criteria, than supporting breeders who are breeding GSDs that go against everything this breed is *supposed* to be, and thus are obviously breeding for reasons other than preservation and improvement of the GSD breed or respect for it's standard and heritage. IMO, yes that is watering down the GSD breed to fit the masses and it's not a good thing.


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## gsdlove212 (Feb 3, 2006)

very well said chris.


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## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Very well said indeed!


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## shmoab (Dec 11, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: RubyTuesdayWhy don't you check out the breeder of the dog you like? Are the dog's parents still being bred? A full sib would be your best chance of a similar dog.


I did. I was all set up to take a 6 hour drive to check a male pup out. Then when I questioned him on the quality of his dog's litter, nothing serious, just asked if he considered his dog's progeny to be the betterment of the breed, he emailed back stating that all the pups have been sold. That's cqbk9.com It's a shame too because in my amateur opinion I thought they were some good GSD's. 
BTW to the person asking why I was choosing such different breeders. I didn't think I was. I asked Haus Brezel about working dogs and they said, yes.

The type of GSD I want in my family is of DDR/Czech/Slovakian breed.


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: shmoabI asked Haus Brezel about working dogs and they said, yes.
> 
> The type of GSD I want in my family is of DDR/Czech/Slovakian breed.


While their dogs may be titled in SCH the Haus Brezel dogs are not working lines. There is a difference. They are not DDR/Czech/Slovak lines.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

Toni(haus brezel) owns Isa's aunt, V Evita vom Haus Brezel, Sch. 3 and Isa's mom is from Haus Brezel. Nice dogs too if you're looking for German Showlines. IMO, they can work but they don't have that extra "oomf" when you need it, which is why I'm waiting to get my DDR male once I'm settled in.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Although there are some litters on the site, this looks to be a broker who imports and resells dogs as a main activity. It is puzzeling that there is no location for this business. Also, the majority of the photos are showline dogs, not working, yet they are promoting themselves as a provider of seemingly very high end fully trained protection dogs of all sorts.

There are breeders here who can provide you with a terrific working line companion pup. I personally like the DDR/Czech look, but combined with WGR/European working lines for balance in trainability and drives. I have a primarily DDR female and found that her daughter from a WGR male kept the "look" but had more biddability. That female will be bred back to a male who will keep balance in drives, biddabiity and appearance. Those characteristics should be what a puppy buyer considers in their companion and training dogs.

Lee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have an 8mth old slovakian/ddr/czech,,she's pictured around here on the board I'm sure ))

I'm not sure why you want that particular breeding,,but Masi's mother is a Eurosport dog imported from slovakia (pohracini lines) 
narcotics certified,,her dad is ddr/czech is sar certified, and has a kazillion titles) The breeder is a member of this board
kleinenhain . http://www.freewebs.com/kleinenhain 

I've had Masi since she was 9 weeks,,I don't plan on doing shutzhund with her, but she will be doing "something"..She is no couch potatoe for sure, and requires ALOT of physical as well as mental exercise DAILY,,if she doesn't get it,,she can be a bear to live with ))) Let's put it this way,,I love her to death, she is exactly what I wanted,,but she is not for the faint of heart ))

I have the luxury of having alot of time to spend with her, (altho this getting dark early is gonna make it a long winter)..

I would get another dog from wanda in a heartbeat.


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## darylehret (Mar 19, 2006)

I don't think Hard Policia could be much more than 85 lbs, about what my Faro Policia weighs. They just seem large, having thick bone and wide heads. Hard seems like a nice enough dog to me, find out what future litters are in store for him. Just skip the "betterment of the breed" stuff, because it's difficult to interpret that question; there are so many right and simultaneously, wrong answers.

http://www.cqbk9.com/hard.html


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Good to see you Daryl, haven't seen you about much of late!!


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

I have to agree with Daryl, As he used Faro as a example thick bone, big blocky head and having a Faro son here Narys Policia, he seems to carry all of Faro's boning and head size.


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## darylehret (Mar 19, 2006)

Freezing temperatures today, so no training


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## darylehret (Mar 19, 2006)

Here's a fella that's crossed with a sibling of Hard over a daughter of Faro. His name is Erdo Policia-Slovakia, with an excellent breed survey of 5KV5/55P 1tr.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and I forgot to address the op's desire for a 100lb dog,,mine will never be 100lb's (thank god) and her breeder's dogs are not that size either..

Daryl,,he is gorgeous ))) I've become quite partial to those dark sables)


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

No sick wife so I have kennel duty instead


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