# Major Horse Aggression - How to stop chasing???



## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Juno is about 5.5 months old now. And she's got a HUGE issue with horses. We don't own any, but we live in an unusual area that is very near the city but also around a lot of farmland. There's even an an equestrian centre right behind our house. No matter how much I have tried to get Juno used to horses from the moment we first brought her home at 8 weeks up to now, she goes APE when she sees one. 

The past two days, this issue has come to a head. There is a man who occasionally rides his horse (with him on a small two wheeled cart hitched to the back), quickly up and down our lane. Whenever Juno sees him go by, she runs up to the fence line, machine gun barking, hackles, the works. We keep our gate shut most of the time, but it is occasionally left open by visitors, etc. Our lane is quite busy, but she has never made any attempt to leave the property or chase after cars or people that pass by. That is, until this damned horse started flying by our house.

The minute I saw the guy come down the road and realised our gate was open, Juno saw him too and I shouted at her to "leave it". She paused for a moment and turned to briefly look at me. I said to leave it again, which she promptly ignored and she ran after him anyway. She chased the horse halfway up our road (which people drive down far too fast), and nearly got run over by the cart, AND an oncoming car, giving me a near heart attack in the process.

She's been behaving like a real snot lately in various ways and this incident was the icing on the cake. (Good Lord, is this what is the beginning of the teenage phase?? How will I cope??? )

Aside from the obvious solution of keeping the gate closed at all times, how can I make her less reactive to horses? I want to tackle this issue to make her more reliable, especially in the area that we live, but I don't know how. 

Any suggestions are much appreciated.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

I think it's going to take you proactively training this, now while she's young, probably by going to the equestrian centre near your house. Her current behavior is a combination of territorial response, fear aggression, and prey response--you need to help her change how she feels about horses in general and teach her what behavior is unacceptable in your yard.

What she's doing right now is very dangerous to her and also to the horse/rider(driver)--could cause some really scary problems later on.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Well, as you said, you need to make sure the gate is kept shut at all times. The open gate is going to be the cause of much heartache at some point.

I think you need to start training, if you haven't already. Find a good trainer and get started. Make her recall rock solid under all kinds of stimulating situations. Train her, and then keep training her. And then train some more. A reliable down, a reliable leave it. All that effort will pay off.

Good luck. 
Sheilah


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

keep introducing her to horses. train near some horses.
train often (daily, several times a day or more). stop the guy
on the cart and tell him you want to introduce your pup
to him and his horse. ask him would he mind stopping
every time he passes your house. people are quick to
blame a stage in the dogs life when the dog does something wrong.
i read somewhere " when your dog isn't doing what you want
you have to stop and ask yourself what am i doing wrong".


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Take her out on leash and when horses go by your house, correct her immediately when she reacts. She does not have to love horses, but she has to tolerate them, because of where you live. Allowing her to run free in the yard and react aggressively toward the horses, kind of fence fighting with them, is like a self-rewarding behavior. Do not give her the opportunity to do so when you are not in a position to correct it immediately. As you found today, this is a huge accident waiting to happen.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Has she been around horses away from her yard? She's only 5.5 months? Have you taken her to the stables, has she seen them, slowly from a distance and moving in, etc? 

First, give her the opportunity to succeed by training and shaping the behavior you do want. Like what doggiedad is saying. 

If after that, she just cannot deal, you can look at making it a correctable behavior. For her safety, like selzer is referring to. 

But for now, start way back at the beginning. 

And don't let her blow off a leave it - it is now not a leave it, and I would definitely look for another phrase that means leave it, and retrain.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> And don't let her blow off a leave it - it is now not a leave it, and I would definitely look for another phrase that means leave it, and retrain.


if she's so young, she may not have grasped the concept that "leave it" can apply towards anything........no?


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I have a concept of Leave It that it is a command never to be ignored - and a leave it item is anything I say it is. So I would retrain it. She may be too young to use it without having control over her or the item, so I wouldn't use it unless I knew that the dog could handle it. It's one command I am dead serious about - if I drop meds, or if there is a rabbit that made it into the yard - I want them to leave it without question.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Take her around horses. Jax's first sight of horses must have been horrifying for her. All she was was their heads sticking out of their stalls. She must have thought it was one huge monster with many heads. 

Chasing a horse is COMPLETELY unacceptable and dangerous for all parties involved. First, take her around the horses on leash. Let her see them, when she stops reacting to them, give her great rewards. I think Christine (Blackthorn) nailed what is going on with her. First, you need to get her over the fear, then work on teaching her to not chase...I think I would use a combination of LAT and Leave IT....teach her both of those commands.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I was at the vet once and people brought in a puppy that had been kicked in the head by a horse. It was one of the worst things I have ever seen.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I was at the vet once and people brought in a puppy that had been kicked in the head by a horse. It was one of the worst things I have ever seen.


And there is nothing like seeing your 62# dog getting chases out of a field by an 1100# horse while knowing you are to far away to do anything about it. 

Leash or contained at all times is the key to keeping both animals and all people safe until you teach your puppy to not chase them.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Eek. Yeah. 

Kramer had the opposite issue of this puppy - he loved horses. Would go to the fence, they would nuzzle him - he was a horse whisperer. I would always point horses out to him as we drove and he would watch them. One day I pulled over so he could see a group in this field and opened the window a bit for him to sniff. He jumped out the window and ran into the field with the horses. I was panicked - for a lot of reasons (and felt so bad - the owners!). However, again, that strange "eh" at the worst and :wub: at the most that horses had with him - they just kept grazing and I called him back, freaking out. Learned that he could fit through smaller openings than I thought!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jax loved horses too. The same horse that chased him out of his field (our Red) is the same horse that would stand perfectly still and let her race between his legs. Horses can become territorial over their "area". He also started chasing cats out of his field. I've read that happens sometimes when they are alone without another animal.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I have had dogs and horses together all of my adult life. There is no 100% magical training process to create a rock solid command to ever feel comfortable enough to leave your gate open to any outside distractions (horses). Even the best of dogs can meet up with a dog aggressive horse. Bad combination. 

My dogs are not allowed in stalls (even when empty), my dogs are not allowed off leash or out of the back yard if the horses are in the pasture. There is no reaction allowed towards the horses what so ever. No sniff, no woof, no alert, nothing. But when I'm not there...all bets are off. Fencing and hot wire helps ensure safety for both. 

Hondo has been raised with the horses. He sees them every day. They come to the fence and greet him....he still tries to bite their face off and they still try to kick his head in. 

I've raised Aussies that work livestock. They were wonderful with the horses. Quick with commands. My heart dog would actually help me train young horses to load in a trailer. He knew exactly what to do, when to put pressure on and when to take it off. He was amazing. But - let him get out with the horses when I wasn't home and he'd push a horse through the fence. 

And honestly, as a horse owner, I would not appreciate anyone bringing their dog to my fence so their dog can meet my horses. Dogs can be quick as lightning and a well aimed bite to the soft nose of a horse can cause a lot of damage. Also, I have a young filly who can strike out faster than you can move (you or your dog). If you elect to do that, make sure you have permission from the horse/ stable owner.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I also have had dogs around horses for 25+ years. Cheyenne was my only 100% dog when it came to horses. I had started taking him out with my horse when he was probably less than 6 months old. He was also the only dog I trusted off lead. 
When Apache & Kiya were young I had started them out on trails with the horse, until Kiya started having seizures then I had to retire my old horse.
Present day, my horse Reno is very flighty, I don't trust him around the dogs. Thru the fence they all sniff noses. I watch Lakota hang out by him in the far end of our yard. I also watch her try to charge him up & play run the fence. 
If I take Reno into the yard to graze (on lead) I have my lunge whip to keep the dogs away from his back legs. 
I regret not trying to take Lakota out on trail with him when she was younger. I took the 2 of them for a walk last week I don't think she was too happy, she was very nervous. 
Since you don't have your own horse to work with I would concentrate on getting his focus back to you and definately make sure he can never get the opportunity to chase a horse, it could be deadly.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

As someone who's been on a horse while the horse kicked and killed a dog, it is traumatic for all parties. It might be best to approach the stable and ask if they would help with your training as it will benefit all parties. If they are willing to help you should see if they have a non reactive/bombproof horse that can be used for training. Slowly introduce your pup and give corrections when she reacts. This process takes quite some time. Slowly work with your pup so she doesn't see the horse as a threat. Introduce her to the horse as you would with a new dog. First through a fence or stall door then slowly work up to face to face introductions. Your pup will probably never be 100% ok with horses but you can at least curb the barking and chasing. 

I did this with my old collie after my experience. He never loved horses but after almost a year of work he could lie down in the barn while I groomed the horses and didnt try to bite them or bark. It's a slow frustrating process but the end result is well worth it. 

Disturbing Story: I was riding a mare when the neighborhood terror came into the ring, through the fencing. My trainer and I had previously approached the owner and stated that their dog was harassing the horses. That day he attempted to bite the mare on her hind leg and she lashed out, connecting with the dog. At that moment I lost control of the mare and she spun and began to stomp the dog. I was almost thrown in the process and sustained injuries as a result. Once a horse goes into attack mode they will do so until they neutralize the threat, fight or flight. That mare could not be trusted around dogs after that incident and she would even challenge dogs on trails. It led to her being sold as she was too dangerous and we became worried that her aggression would transfer to children. I still have nightmares about this incident.


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

So sorry for the delay in responding. It's been a loooong day and I'm only getting to read through all of your great suggestions and tips now. Thank you all so much for this. I really do appreciate it.

To answer some of your questions:

As regards Juno's "leave it", she has always been really good about it. She actually learned that command before she learned anything else, and up until the horse incident, it was pretty reliable. She's just finished a basic obedience course that really focused on recall last week, and I plan to continue her training in May. 

The following situation happened today, and I'm not sure if what I did was the right thing or not, but at least it was something positive:

Today I went out to the front garden when I expected that the man on the horse would be passing by. This time, I was ready for it, and the gate was shut, but she was not on a lead. The minute Juno heard the clip clop clip clop of the hooves her ears perked and she immediately tensed and I could see was preparing to go after the man. I instantly firmly told her to leave it, then sit. Which she did. I told her to stay. Which she did. She didn't bark or run after the guy. She simply watched him go by, which really surprised me. I gave her loads and loads of praise. But then once she was released, she started to trot (not bolt like she usually would) up the drive, barking. I commanded "leave it" again, and she immediately turned around and came back. 

I really liked the suggestion to introduce her to the man and the horse, and may do that in the very near future. I have tried to introduce her to various horses in the past while on walks, but could never get her to relax enough to stop barking. And as another poster mentioned, I didn't want to annoy their owners by constantly bringing my obnoxiously barking dog to their fence to meet their horses. :blush:

Today has given me some hope of making some headway with this. If I can achieve at the very least some reliability with her reaction to horses I'd be happy. I don't expect Juno to love them, but I do want her to respect them. 

Again, thanks for all your suggestions. They've been invaluable.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you introduce her to the man and the horse, make sure you ask him if that is ok before taking her outside the gate so that he can dismount first.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How about an e-fence setup as a safety net incase your regular fence fails? 

I really have no experience with e-fences, but seems like it may be a good backup plan incase the fence is ever let open and while you work on the actual root of the problem.


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## pfitzpa1 (Apr 26, 2011)

We have a 100 acre leash free park close by, that horse owners sometimes use as well. About 8 mo ago a girl got thrown and suffered severe back injuries after her horse was attacked by 2 pitbulls. After I heard that, the next time I saw someone with horses there, I asked if I could bring my GSD up to their horses and let her sniff them. They were fine with it (they also had a dog). Maggie sniffed the horses but didn't act aggressively or playful towards them. We lay down near the horses for about 10 minutes chatting with the owners and she was comfortable there.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I teach the dogs the fence line is mine, I face into the yard, and cut off any and all charging at the fence or anything on the other side..I use the 2 parts of pooper scooper, or a water hose, and spray...I do this regularly, so when i call them off from the fence later, they listen..none of them runs the fence line, that tends to ramp them up..


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

I think it is easier if your dogs have been around horses since puppyhood.
I trim our horses feet here as we live too far out for a farrier. My hubby did them for me yesterday as I am about to have a baby and our GSD sits right there waiting for the bits of hoof to chew.....he doesn't know any different but introducing adults to horses is probably more of a challenge.


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## Pandora (Feb 29, 2012)

Having owned, worked with and trained horses for many decades I found that I was able to overcome my horses' fear of aggressive dogs by showing the horses how easily intimidated dogs can be. So, this is my suggestion:
Make a connection with some horse owner who is a confident, competent rider of a steady, seasoned horse. Have this pair chase Juno and scare the piss out of her. This will teach her that she is no match for a horse, instill some respect in her, and hopefully make her listen better to you.
Obviously she is hasn't learned reliable recall yet and needs more work on a long line. She is still a puppy, so don't be discouraged, but don't let her get away with disobedience opt it will just become a habit. If you can't enforce your commands (come, leave it, etc.), don't bother or she will think she doesn't have to mind.
For anyone who thinks my suggestion is cruel, you haven't seen the damage a horse kick can do to a dog. It's really horrible. Better to teach the dog respect for horses and avoid any harm to dog, horse, or rider.


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## JLOCKHART29 (Aug 23, 2009)

I live in the country on a farm with cows and two horses. Third day Auron was in the U.S he tried to bite my Arab and she stepped on his foot. When he pulled back he stretched the growth plate on one side of his front leg!! Great I have this pup hear three days and he's lame. Thankfully it all grew back with no permanent damage BUT for a Schutzhund prospect it could have been disastrous.
I have found recall and a quite command take care of most social problems like this.Recall gets him out of the situation and quite command keeps him from raising caine when he can't get his pray. I would teach the recall now. That is the one command I leave no wiggle room. When I say "hear" that means this second not two seconds. If he is walking into street and a car is coming two seconds more going in the same direction can get him killed. Charging stray dog could get him ripped up, ect. Once I know he understands the "hear" command it is enforced. This is one command that brings a strong instant correction. He is ecollar conditioned and have set him up as it were by letting him get ahead of me when I go get paper at 3AM knowing there will be deer in the field that will run. I don't nag him. If he disobeys the "hear", he gets burned. If he doesn't have the collar he gets strung. This is a strong dog and takes the correction like "oh you said hear!! I thought you were saying deer"lol Your dog may/probably want need that level of correction but the point is he understands this command is non negotiable. Until he is rock solid it is your responsibility to keep him out of situations. That's what locks and leashes are for.


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## JLOCKHART29 (Aug 23, 2009)

Pandora said:


> Having owned, worked with and trained horses for many decades I found that I was able to overcome my horses' fear of aggressive dogs by showing the horses how easily intimidated dogs can be. So, this is my suggestion:
> Make a connection with some horse owner who is a confident, competent rider of a steady, seasoned horse. Have this pair chase Juno and scare the piss out of her. This will teach her that she is no match for a horse, instill some respect in her, and hopefully make her listen better to you.
> Obviously she is hasn't learned reliable recall yet and needs more work on a long line. She is still a puppy, so don't be discouraged, but don't let her get away with disobedience opt it will just become a habit. If you can't enforce your commands (come, leave it, etc.), don't bother or she will think she doesn't have to mind.
> For anyone who thinks my suggestion is cruel, you haven't seen the damage a horse kick can do to a dog. It's really horrible. Better to teach the dog respect for horses and avoid any harm to dog, horse, or rider.



Pandora I would be carefull with some dogs doing that. Not that I think its cruel or anything but if you read my post above Auron got stomped as a pup. Wife's Walker is a stomper. My Arab will dance all around trying not to step on anyone or anything but the Walker at 16 hands will come at a dog. If she makes a pass at him all that does is put him in drive and he goes into pray. Makes no difference if she out weighs him 15 times he goes on the attack. Between the Walker and cows he has been kicked, stomped, rolled, you name it the first year. I managed to work out a simi peace agreement between them where they can be out together. He doesn't try to herd her and she doesn't actively try to stomp him. However when its the horses feeding time or I am calling them in I have to put him at heal or he will try to herd her up and the whole thing gets nasty. Just a thought.


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