# Black Sable, show quality?



## Mocha Joe (Jan 3, 2014)

Hi guys, I'm new to this site and I've browsed posting rules and believe I'm allowed to post such thread. If not please let me know where I should be posting!

Anyways, I have two sable GSDs. I've always assumed they were not a qualified color. But as my 5 month old eastern line shepherd is beautiful in color and structure, I've begun a little more research. According to the AKC, only white is an instant disqualification, and that rich colors are the most preferred. My female is a light sable so I know she is not of show color, however I'm having a hard time making the call on my puppy. I'm going to try and upload his picture and am looking for some opinions! Thanks in advance!


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Are you talking AKC, UKC or SV show?


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## Mocha Joe (Jan 3, 2014)

Akc


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sable dogs tend to be working lines and, while there is no disqualification, working line structure is not typical of what the "show" crowd wants. Handsome pup. The older one appears to be German Showlines. Once again not the AKC cup of tea. But it is hard to tell from such a small picture. 

If you look at the critique my dog section you can pose your dog in a stack and ask opinions. What is the pedigree? You could probably get involved with schutzhund and show under SV rules but, once again, for show there, black and red is favored. A lot of us on the forum love the working lines though.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

My goodness he is gorgeous! :wub:

I would LOVE to see a sable in the show ring!


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## Mocha Joe (Jan 3, 2014)

Thank you for the information, I'll be sure to check that thread out now!


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## Mocha Joe (Jan 3, 2014)

LaRen616 said:


> My goodness he is gorgeous! :wub:
> 
> I would LOVE to see a sable in the show ring!



Thank you! I adore his color!


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I’m going to be pretty blunt…

Looks like you have a working line male. It’s highly likely that although he does have good structure, it is not AKC quality structure. Since you’re asking this question and basing it off of color, I’ll assume that you don’t know much about the structure the AKC judges like to see. Sadly, “good structure” is a very subjective term and not objective like it should be. Yes, you can enter your boy into any AKC show you want (given that he is AKC registered and intact), but the likelihood that you’ll actually win anything, is slim to none. If you post a stacked picture of your dog, from a straight on angle (not above or below him) we’d be able to go into more detail of why your dog will probably not do very well in the AKC ring, at the moment I’m just going off of the pictures you posted and the understanding that a dark-sable like that is unlikely to have come from American Show Lines.

If you want to give it a go, I suggest an all-breed show. At a specialty show…99% of the time you’ll probably end up dead last.

I’m not saying this because I think your dog is bad, I’m basing it off of my knowledge of the AKC show ring. The same would go for the SV ring. You could probably have some success in UKC.


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## Mocha Joe (Jan 3, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> If you look at the critique my dog section you can pose your dog in a stack and ask opinions. What is the pedigree? You could probably get involved with schutzhund and show under SV rules but, once again, for show there, black and red is favored. A lot of us on the forum love the working lines though.


His father is a Sch3 Slovakian Military K9, and he has definitely inherited his drive. His mother is from DDR working lines, but was kept as a family protector only. Unfortunately for me the only Schutzhund trainer in my area is moving soon and no longer taking new clients. However I've been researching a few clubs and started his basic obedience, tracking etc with a different trainer. Hopefully when I am ready to move I will find a trainer close by.


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## Mocha Joe (Jan 3, 2014)

Martemchik, Since I've never actually shown a dog, what I know of the AKC standard is only what I've been able to read from their website and the books I've been able to get my hands on. What I know of his structure is what I am able to measure with my vet and since he is young I can only make estimates. I'm only asking about his color first because I couldn't really gather if it was frowned upon, and didn't want to waste any more of my time furthering my research if he was an automatic no.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Mocha Joe said:


> Martemchik, Since I've never actually shown a dog, what I know of the AKC standard is only what I've been able to read from their website and the books I've been able to get my hands on. What I know of his structure is what I am able to measure with my vet and since he is young I can only make estimates. I'm only asking about his color first because I couldn't really gather if it was frowned upon, and didn't want to waste any more of my time furthering my research if he was an automatic no.


Absolutely! And a great place to start. If you're really interested in showing, try to find your closest GSDCA club or a kennel club that has conformation classes. People will be able to tell you exactly what they see in your dog and you'll figure out exactly what the AKC is looking for.

Look up some videos of AKC shows, the GSDCA nationals, the breed competition at Westminster and you'll quickly notice the differences between your dog and the top competitors in the world of AKC.

I believe your dog has fantastic structure for life and work. Probably has some fantastic drive for obedience/bite work. But, the AKC conformation ring is a different animal.

It's not an automatic no, they'll let you show, but the likelihood of success is very little. I know someone that has a V rated sable working dog (German system), and was in an all breed show all by herself and was still given a 2nd place ribbon in order to keep her out of the group competition and not give her a win.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Do spend some time. The standards are not at issue but how people interpret them and what they desire for that purpose. A lot of us would prefer the actual working line structure over the showline.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

For AKC, while he's not an automatic no, he's realistically a probably not gonna do well. Personally, if showing appeals to you apart from winning, get him out there b/c he'll most likely be a winner with the general public even if the judges reject him. In my experience the public at large often finds showlines to be the least attractive GSD & welcome exposure to the other types.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

I will be showing my working line male this June - he is Solid Black, with a nice working line structure.

I really don't care if he wins. But last year I was appalled to see what was passing as a Shepherd in the ring at my local show. Not only was their overexaggerated angles, but the most fearful Shepherds I have ever seen. Had to be forced to be examined, trying to hide behind the handlers from the Judges. When they were out of the ring, they all cowered in their crates.

My reason for showing my dog this year is just to show what a true working dog should LOOK and ACT like. I am certain he will be passed over, but everyone standing outside of the ring will be able to see the difference in temperament alone.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Sable is an allowed color under all standards, SV, AKC, whatever. It is not a disqualification or fault. And it is actually genetically the most dominant color so will be the one most represented unless specifically selected away from (as it has been in Euro show lines, but not due to any reason based on the standard).

Whether his structure would do well in either show venue, AKC or SV, is another matter. But color alone wouldn't preclude showing him.


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## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

Can't answer your question, but will say you have a pretty baby! 


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why do you have two accounts? Mocha and Mocha Joe?


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## Mocha (Dec 3, 2013)

That's a good question LOL. When I went to login, it told me I had no account, so I made a new one figuring it was on a different site (I've checked out a couple dog sites) that I had "Mocha Joe". Now I realize (since you've pointed out) that I must have just used the wrong password or email. I wonder if there is a way to delete an account? I've been using this one ever since. 

And that also leads to why I haven't been responding ! I really don't care to win much either, and if what you say is true about the general public then if his body structure checks out then I'll just go for it! I think it would be a good experience for the both of us. The training it will take would really help our bond, and let's face it he LOVES having a job to do  !

I've been looking for local clubs around here, and the closest I have found is two hours away  However, if I make it a weekly thing and make the trip Sat-Sun each week I think it is manageable. That way I could get some hands on learning with some people there. Hopefully they can give me a real feel for things (instead of just reading). However, this forum still has been incredibly insightful. 




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