# Jimmy's Ears!!..



## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Hello everybody,​


I got Jimmy my GSD when he was 3 months and 10 days and his ears were just fine standing up as in the first pic. Then when he started teething all of a sudden when he became 4 months exactly both his ears came down!!.. I didn't worry at the beginning knowing that this could happen when teething but they stayed down like this without any ups for about 20 days which made me worry!.. ​


A friend of mine advised me to tape them immediately as there was no need to wait more but the exact day I was going to tape them (about 10 days ago) Jimmy raised one of his ears up for few seconds.. So I saw this as a good sign not to tape his ears and to wait and see.. During the last 10 days his ears have been down all the time as in the second pic. But when he eats/runs/pays his attention to something one of them (sometimes the left and sometimes the right one) goes up then comes down again immediately after he stops whatever he does!!.. and sometimes both of them go up together.. Sometimes also he stretch them backward when he moves quickly.. as in the rest of the pics..​


I read before that if the ears were up before teething they will definitely go up after he finishes teething when he is 6 months or so.. ​


Plz let me know your opinions and experience with this matter.. is it normal to be in this phase (down all the time and up only for few seconds when doing something) till he finishes teething??.. he is exactly 5 months now,.. shall I tape them now or it's better to wait for one more month??.. plz note that I feed him 2 good meals a day with a lot of calcium in them..​


Sorry for being long and awaiting your comments..​


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

If they were up once, they'll go back up once he's done teething. Make sure you give him plenty of things to chew on, that strengthens the muscles in that area. I wouldn't bother taping them.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I noticed in the first pic with them up, they look like they were leaning on each other. They weren't completely standing on their own. My other GSd did this with his ears, and they flopped back down and all over the place.They eventually came up on their own and were perfect. I would wait a while before considering taping them. I think once the teethig eases up, his ears will stand.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

Wolfiesmom said:


> I think once the teethig eases up, his ears will stand.


I don't understand the connection between teething and his ears standing up?


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

squerly said:


> I don't understand the connection between teething and his ears standing up?


Teething and the growth of new teeth need calcium, so does cartilage (which is what makes the ears stand up). So initially before teething, the calcium is going around the body, to the ears, etc. but during teething it really heads to the teeth and the ears soften again. Once teething is over, the calcium is again available to finish u the ears.

We do use yogurt and Ester C for our pups. Yogurt has calcium and the Ester C helps properly distribute it through the body and absorb right.


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## GROVEBEAUTY (Oct 23, 2008)

i would leave them alone. They will probably go up on their own. My puppies ears are usually up and stay up long before this. The big thing is to leave them alone. don't pet the dog on the head or ears until the ears "set".


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## LARHAGE (Jul 24, 2006)

I think those ears look pretty soft though, and being a plushy coat the hair may be a factor. If that was my puppy, I would glue them up with tear mender.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Tear mender works great for just a little bit of "help" for the ears. I wouldn't hesitate to assist them a bit either.


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## squerly (Aug 3, 2008)

VegasResident said:


> Teething and the growth of new teeth need calcium, so does cartilage (which is what makes the ears stand up). So initially before teething, the calcium is going around the body, to the ears, etc. but during teething it really heads to the teeth and the ears soften again. Once teething is over, the calcium is again available to finish u the ears.


Makes sense, thank you. :thumbup:


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

many thx guys for all your replies.. i will wait 2 more weeks or so and if they are still the same i will tape/glue them.. i feel that gluing is better than taping and more comfortable for the dog but can i use the same glue i use for leather,.. wood ..etc or it may be harmful??.. i am not sure i can find this "tear mender" in my country (egypt)..

as for being plush coat yes i read before that this may affect his ears.. shall i shave them or it will be useless??..


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

First, I love that your dogs name is Jimmy and he's very cute.

I personally would wait a couple more weeks, then seriously look at taping if they are not up.

My boys ears were all over the place, but are up and very firm at 5 months now. They did drop during teething.

Make sure he has plenty of safe chew toys. Mine chews on a elk antler and he also gets yogurt daily.


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## VegasResident (Oct 4, 2006)

Sherief Shalaby said:


> many thx guys for all your replies.. i will wait 2 more weeks or so and if they are still the same i will tape/glue them.. i feel that gluing is better than taping and more comfortable for the dog but can i use the same glue i use for leather,.. wood ..etc or it may be harmful??.. i am not sure i can find this "tear mender" in my country (egypt)..
> 
> as for being plush coat yes i read before that this may affect his ears.. shall i shave them or it will be useless??..


I have had long coats and the ears did not require glue or taping, though they did take a bit longer to go up, but boy are they strong when they go up! Do not really look at the hair, look at the thickness of the ear, the overall weight, the size, the head size etc. Oddly the hair on the ears weighs close to nothing.


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Courtney said:


> First, I love that your dogs name is Jimmy and he's very cute.
> 
> I personally would wait a couple more weeks, then seriously look at taping if they are not up.
> 
> ...


thx courtney 

plz tell me,.. when your dogs were teething were their ears down all the time or they were going up and down all the time??.. what makes me worry about jimmy is that even when he raises his ears up now this lasts for few seconds only then they go down again!!..

i give him a cup of milk and one egg with dry food in the morning meal.. i also give him a calcium tablet!!.. also in his evening meal i put some chicken well boiled small bones so i dont think he needs more calcium!!..


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

VegasResident said:


> I have had long coats and the ears did not require glue or taping, though they did take a bit longer to go up, but boy are they strong when they go up! Do not really look at the hair, look at the thickness of the ear, the overall weight, the size, the head size etc. Oddly the hair on the ears weighs close to nothing.


yes when he raises them or one of them up it's fully erect but again what makes me worry is that this erection phase lasts only for few seconds!!..


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

No do not use that glue. You need to use a surgical glue. You can get it online. ALso only use surgical glue remover if you have to remove but generally they will come out on their own.


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> No do not use that glue. You need to use a surgical glue. You can get it online. ALso only use surgical glue remover if you have to remove but generally they will come out on their own.


many thx and let's hope i dont need to glue at all!!.. i will wait for 2 more weeks and observe them,.. if they are still the exact same i will tape them or glue them (if i find a safe glue) but if they improve in any way like seeing an real increase in the erection phase or so i will give them another 2 weeks and see!!..


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I use Perma Type - Perma-Type Products
It's inexpensive and you can buy the remover from them too. If you end up deciding to use it send me a PM and I'll walk you through it. But we will plan on you not needing to!


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

GSDAlphaMom said:


> I use Perma Type - Perma-Type Products
> It's inexpensive and you can buy the remover from them too. If you end up deciding to use it send me a PM and I'll walk you through it. But we will plan on you not needing to!


let's hope and see and many thx for your cooperation


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

VegasResident said:


> Teething and the growth of new teeth need calcium, so does cartilage (which is what makes the ears stand up). So initially before teething, the calcium is going around the body, to the ears, etc. but during teething it really heads to the teeth and the ears soften again. Once teething is over, the calcium is again available to finish u the ears.


The calcium thing is a myth, bone need calcium (or more properly, a good calcium/phosphorus rate) but cartilage is made of protein and doesn't need calcium at all.

If a pup is in a good food to add calcium is a very, very bad idea. You definitely do not want ossification before the growth plates stop growing and the cartilaginous mould is complete.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Do NOT boil the bones! Bones should only bed fed RAW!!!!


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Catu said:


> The calcium thing is a myth, bone need calcium (or more properly, a good calcium/phosphorus rate) but cartilage is made of protein and doesn't need calcium at all.
> 
> If a pup is in a good food to add calcium is a very, very bad idea. You definitely do not want ossification before the growth plates stop growing and the cartilaginous mould is complete.


so why many GSDs ears go down when they start teething??..


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Do NOT boil the bones! Bones should only bed fed RAW!!!!


i am talking about the small bones in the chicken wings and neck!.. it's better to boil them to kill any bacteria in the meat around them,.. right??.. i normally dont like to give him any raw food!!..


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

No, do not boil bones.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

If you do not like to do any RAW then some sardines, plain yogart and cottage cheese. You can give cooked meat but never ever cooked bones.


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> If you do not like to do any RAW then some sardines, plain yogart and cottage cheese. You can give cooked meat but never ever cooked bones.


yes i give him raw tuna once a week.. also milk, yogort and cheese.. but why are cooked bones bad??.. do you mean they can be harmful or just useless??..


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Harmful....they dry out and splinter.


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Harmful....they dry out and splinter.


thx for the info jakea i will give him them raw from now on


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Do a bit of research on Raw even though you aren't interested in feeding that diet. There is tons of great information on how/what to feed. I give Jake Raw a few days a week for one of his meals. He loves partially frozen turkey necks and chicken backs. If they are a bit frozen it takes them longer to eat AND is good for those teething mouths!!!!


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Do a bit of research on Raw even though you aren't interested in feeding that diet. There is tons of great information on how/what to feed. I give Jake Raw a few days a week for one of his meals. He loves partially frozen turkey necks and chicken backs. If they are a bit frozen it takes them longer to eat AND is good for those teething mouths!!!!


do you think freezing is enough to kill bacterica in raw meals??..


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

No, I don't think freezing will kill all bacteria in raw meals.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Sherief Shalaby said:


> do you think freezing is enough to kill bacterica in raw meals??..


Freezing doesn't kill bacteria, but does kills parasites, that is the main purpose of freezing. It is specially important in the case of fish.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Sherief Shalaby said:


> thx courtney
> 
> plz tell me,.. when your dogs were teething were their ears down all the time or they were going up and down all the time??.. what makes me worry about jimmy is that even when he raises his ears up now this lasts for few seconds only then they go down again!!..
> 
> i give him a cup of milk and one egg with dry food in the morning meal.. i also give him a calcium tablet!!.. also in his evening meal i put some chicken well boiled small bones so i dont think he needs more calcium!!..


I copy and pasted this from a previous thread a few weeks ago of my dogs ears timeline. So stressful, I know!:crazy:

When we got our male at 8 weeks-he had one up & one down. Within 3 days both ears were down. About 3 weeks later one ear went back up, followed by the other ear up 3 days later. Both ears were up for about a month-then one dropped (you see where I'm going with this!) for about 2 weeks and now both are up again (19 weeks currently) and very firm.

Our breeder said some ears drop during teething-which I'm pretty sure happened when his flopped, but will go back up.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Sherief Shalaby said:


> so why many GSDs ears go down when they start teething??..


The local pain in the mouth cause the muscles that control ears not to work properly. While all the muscles we use are in the jaw area, dogs have big temporal muscles up in the head and when he feels pain for something, even if the cause is not muscular, he tends to relax that area to avoid further pain.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Catu said:


> The local pain in the mouth cause the muscles that control ears not to work properly. While all the muscles we use are in the jaw area, dogs have big temporal muscles up in the head and when he feels pain for something, even if the cause is not muscular, he tends to relax that area to avoid further pain.


So why is it a pup can have his ears up, then have them go down during teething, and they either don't come back up or only come partially up (what I call airplane ears)? Does the muscle get weak while it's relaxed or what?


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

arycrest said:


> So why is it a pup can have his ears up, then have them go down during teething, and they either don't come back up or only come partially up (what I call airplane ears)? Does the muscle get weak while it's relaxed or what?


Honestly, all the dogs I've seen with ears not going up after teething had them weak before teething anyway, ears resting one on each other, ears that would go down if dog was too relaxed, ears that you could see bending when the pup was playing or running, etc. So I think that those had more to do with being weak in the first place and then growing to much to support their own weight than with teething. Some airplane ears seems to be implanted too low also, I've never seen a GSD with ears up in the head and airplane ears, as collies have.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

If ears are going wonky and are not strong, then I don't hesitate to support them some. Sometimes you can just tell they are not strong leather or are extra thick heavy leather.

Calcium shifts during teething can affect the ears. Cartilage is not bone but that does not mean that calcium is not an important element in building cartilage. Supplementing calcium won't help and can harm the pup.

Ears that were weak before may not be improved after teething. After having to help so many people who were late to the game on taping ears, I don't worry about acting on them for some support.


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Samba said:


> No, I don't think freezing will kill all bacteria in raw meals.


and do you think any bacteria in raw chicken may harm the dog or not to that extent??.. 

yesterday and for the first time i gave him raw chicken wing!!.. i just but it in the hot water i had boild the meat and vegitable in..


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Catu said:


> Freezing doesn't kill bacteria, but does kills parasites, that is the main purpose of freezing. It is specially important in the case of fish.


so the question is do bacteria harm dogs as they harm us or it's a different story??..


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

No, here is a sticky from the Raw/BARF area of this forum. Please do not cook anything with bones in it.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/85902-our-dogs-menus.html


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Courtney said:


> I copy and pasted this from a previous thread a few weeks ago of my dogs ears timeline. So stressful, I know!:crazy:
> 
> When we got our male at 8 weeks-he had one up & one down. Within 3 days both ears were down. About 3 weeks later one ear went back up, followed by the other ear up 3 days later. Both ears were up for about a month-then one dropped (you see where I'm going with this!) for about 2 weeks and now both are up again (19 weeks currently) and very firm.
> 
> Our breeder said some ears drop during teething-which I'm pretty sure happened when his flopped, but will go back up.


i hope this will be the case with my dog.. yesterday he kept his ears ups for much longer period (minutes instead of seconds) when we were playing and running in the backyard but again when he was resting or just sitting they were down again!!..


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

Catu said:


> Honestly, all the dogs I've seen with ears not going up after teething had them weak before teething anyway, ears resting one on each other, ears that would go down if dog was too relaxed, ears that you could see bending when the pup was playing or running, etc. So I think that those had more to do with being weak in the first place and then growing to much to support their own weight than with teething. Some airplane ears seems to be implanted too low also, I've never seen a GSD with ears up in the head and airplane ears, as collies have.


here are some pics of my dog when he was about 3 months and 10 days (before teething),.. do you think his ears were kinda weak??..


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

He is gorgeous!!!!!!


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

bianca said:


> He is gorgeous!!!!!!


thx bianca but if i fail to get his ears up again he will be less gorgeous


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Sherief Shalaby said:


> thx bianca but if i fail to get his ears up again he will be less gorgeous


Well I am no expert so I will leave that up to other's but to me, they looked good before! (Also my 9 month old has soft ears and she is still beautiful!!  )


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

Sherief Shalaby said:


> thx bianca but if i fail to get his ears up again he will be less gorgeous


 
im one of those who would say, no, he wouldnt be any less gorgeous at all. (i do understand wanting the ears up, but i always hope people wont get too disappointed if they end up with a floppy eared gsd)


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Having both ears up I guess is a matter of choice. If you do a search I was freaking out before Jake started teething because his left ear was down. I was ready to glue right then and there. I ordered Tear Mender and had it on stand by. Turns out the ear did come up and both are still up at 6 months. For me YES if that ear didn't come up last month I would have glued. No if's ands or buts about it. I say give it a few more weeks, lots of good things to chew on....and if nothing I would glue.


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

roxy84 said:


> im one of those who would say, no, he wouldnt be any less gorgeous at all. (i do understand wanting the ears up, but i always hope people wont get too disappointed if they end up with a floppy eared gsd)


sure i will keep loving him the exact same even if his ears dont go up but i cant deny i hope this doesnt happen!!..


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## Sherief Shalaby (Aug 24, 2010)

jakeandrenee said:


> Having both ears up I guess is a matter of choice. If you do a search I was freaking out before Jake started teething because his left ear was down. I was ready to glue right then and there. I ordered Tear Mender and had it on stand by. Turns out the ear did come up and both are still up at 6 months. For me YES if that ear didn't come up last month I would have glued. No if's ands or buts about it. I say give it a few more weeks, lots of good things to chew on....and if nothing I would glue.


yes this is my current plan now.. he is 5 months now if after 2 weeks he is still the exact same i will take an action..


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I know one breeder that tells her puppy owners if the ears aren't up at 4.5 months to add Solid Gold Seameal to their food.

If they aren't up by 5.5 months it's definitely time to give them some support with forms.


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