# SchH Sleeve 1976



## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Thought I'd share a couple of pictures. This is the sleeve we used in the club I started at. (These pictures are of a seminar in Mexico City).

Just in case anyone was taking for granted the feather weight equipment we use now. I don't think many have experienced what it is like to work an 85 lbs dog using a sleeve that weighs about 30 lbs but it did have a way of separating the weaker helpers from the rest. hehehe. 
We didn't use lots of prey attractions back then and maybe that was a good thing, since doing so, might have resulted in back strains, muscle pulls and a severe case of carpal tunnel syndrome. 

Of course, those sleeves kind of looked a little like a dead animal so, I guess there was an element of prey work to it. Training in the rain was reallly not a good idea while wearing that thing. It weighed about 50 lbs when it was wet. In fact, I remember training was canceled once when it was left outside during a rain storm.


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## SchHGSD (Dec 20, 2001)

WOW. That is really something. What was the material on the bite section, it looks very fuzzy, but at first I was almost thinking carpet...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I can't imagine the dog carrying that around either! Thanks for sharing those pics, would love to see others if you have more!!


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## SchHGSD (Dec 20, 2001)

That is a good question. At that time, was it common procedure for the dogs to carry the sleeve as we do today, or did Raiser come along after?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

That is the mother of all sleeves!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

It does look like an animal!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Wow! Even with the sleeves now, my non-SchH friends are always on my Flickr asking, "why is the dog carrying/biting a carpet?" This one reminds me of that hairy monster in the bad credit score commercial, lol.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

The sleeve was jute but not the same texture as what we see now. That was not a sleeve cover, it was the sleeve. There were no covers for that beast, everything was connected. The picture above is about as close as I can come to what it looked like, only weaved.

No, the dog's did not carry it, the helper would slip it and the dog was expected to go back after the helper. Those pants were not for wimps either. I think they weighed about ten pounds because there was so much padding, but back then, the dogs just might bite you somewhere else, so, it was probably a good idea at the time. About five years later they had started to come up with sleeves that look more like what we have now and then the dogs were starting to carry them, because that is about when that training philosophy was introduced.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

That is crazy!

Thanks for sharing that!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

John still has a lot of those sleeves, under the arms sleeves,(both leather and canvas), and an old suit that looks like a space suit. We never had dogs carrying sleeves in those days, dogs were focused on the threat and the threat came from the person.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Liesje said:


> Wow! Even with the sleeves now, my non-SchH friends are always on my Flickr asking, "why is the dog carrying/biting a carpet?" This one reminds me of that hairy monster in the bad credit score commercial, lol.


:blush: My helper and I are culprit of repairing old sleeves with bedside rugs.


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## Shavy (Feb 12, 2009)

cliffson1 said:


> . We never had dogs carrying sleeves in those days, dogs were focused on the threat and the threat came from the person.


When/why did this change?


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

Vandal said:


> Those pants were not for wimps either. I think they weighed about ten pounds because there was so much padding,....


I still have my first pair of scratch pants, 1981 vintage, and they weigh 14 pounds. Are there still any companies that make scratch pants from real leather?

I was just looking at an old equipment catalog from the early 90's and the prices rally haven't changed that much. Sleeves were only about $30 less than they are now. But that might be do to more competition in the equipment business.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Shavy said:


> When/why did this change?


 They changed as sch moved more toward a sport endeavor and away from a breed evaluation tool. Part of this has been training methods, some has been rule changes, some has been deletion of some exercises, some has been emphasis on scoring from judges on detailed execution, some have been desire for political correctness, all of which have brought about a new approach to Sch that incorporates some different training methods. Not saying whether this is good or bad, so waiting opportunist can pounce on that. Just staing some factual changes that have occurred. This has evolved over the past 25 years and has had a profound impact on the breed in my honest opinion. If you read some previous posts from Anne you will find this beautifully articulated.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Fast said:


> I still have my first pair of scratch pants, 1981 vintage, and they weigh 14 pounds. Are there still any companies that make scratch pants from real leather?


Someone from my club just gave me an old pair of scratch pants last night. It's made from real, thick leather and weighs 10 pounds! I wonder how old those pants were. I'm excited though. Woohoo my first pair of scratch pants!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Woah.. those are crazy!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

And the thing is I am not the fastest, most agile guy to begin with! At least now I can blame it on the scratch pants!

Looking forward to wearing these in 95 degree weather in this weekend :laugh:


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Hmm, reminds me of doing gymnastics routines or conditioning with weights on the ankles! Just think, when you get more...contemporary scratch pants, you will be so quick and polished!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Just pray for no rain, though the sweat will soak them thru... Wow, they look like a workout just laying unstuffed. Better get someone to vid this...we need to see it too!


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## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Love the old pictures and would love to see more and hear more.

I think the training director at the club I go to wears a pair of those old leather scratch pants. I'm going to have to check and see if they are this weekend. He also told me before he has many old sleeves at home. Out of curiosity I'm going to have to ask him how old they are and if they have that shag carpet thing going on.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> Just pray for no rain, though the sweat will soak them thru... Wow, they look like a workout just laying unstuffed. Better get someone to vid this...we need to see it too!


Hmm ... I didn't think about rain! On the other hand, the thick leather does gives me a slight sense of security - although I am not sure what good it will do if a dog does bite me.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

There was a reason for scratch pants like that back in the day. Many more dogs were more serious and those pants made sense. Today, 3/4 of the dogs I work, I will just pick up the sleeve or jacket and work them. They are mostly interested in the sleeve or moving part and I'm comfortable with that. BUT, there are still a few dogs that before I work them I put on pants or apron, not because they are dirty necessarily but because they are serious and I'm told old for accidents.:wub:


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

That's really interesting, Cliff. It makes a lot of sense. The person who gave me the pants is a K9 Officer but they were not his pants.The pants most likely came from the archive of his department.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There is a guy that I know, retired k9 officer, he said he has some sleeves and old training equipment, I asked if he'd like to donate it...He didn't reply to me, just smiled

I'd love to get a look at what he has.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Those are cool - thanks for sharing. Always love to see some of the older equipment.


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## Fast (Oct 13, 2004)

cliffson1 said:


> There was a reason for scratch pants like that back in the day.


Yeah, the technology wasn't there to make tough, durable, light and cool pants. And the dogs were more likly to bite you in the leg because the training wasn't as good.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

So my pants have this odd feature. Someone at some point had cut a hole in the ... err ... buttock area. Of course everyone at training had a good laugh about it and then 20 minutes in training I discovered why the cut was there. VENTILATION!!! 40 minutes in to it and I was bloody grateful that at least my behind was getting some fresh air


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