# Rescue breeding personal dog?



## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

I never agreed with this the second I found out about it and its one of the reasons I left volunteering at this rescue. 

She rescues dogs and complains when people dont spay/neuter. I found out she wanted to breed her "pure bred" Shepherd (reason why pure bred is in quotes is the dog isnt papered so I say pure bred lightly). The dog has no titles nothing. When I emailed her as an interested poster from my account she doesnt know to ask a few basic questions I was able to find out the dog has had no x rays, was from a BYB, wasnt papered or titled. Basically the dog wasnt breed worthy. 

I found out she went ahead and bred the dog not once but twice. She had 2 litters, each litter she went bat crazy when it was taken from her. Her reason was my friends and family wanted a pup from her. I told her perhaps her family should go adopt a Shepherd pup from a rescue or shelter and save its life rather then buy one from you. 

My question is, the reason I was so bothered was this person runs a rescue. She rescues and trains dogs and all that. Was it ethical to breed her unpapered Shepherd when she sings the spay neuter song to every one else? I can understand if the dog was papered, health cleared and the whole bit, but she wasnt. Here she is rescuing dogs, complaining about people who breed unregistered dogs that have no health tests and here she is doing it herself. She thinks because shes a rescue its okay she breeds her dog. 

Thoughts? I know a few people who stopped fostering for her because of this. She was needing more foster homes to get down to the legal limit of dogs our city wants in rescues. Where these foster homes could of been used for more rescues instead of clearing up space for her puppies.


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## RogueRed26 (Jul 15, 2010)

Unfortunately, in our world, there are many hypocrites, and she just happens to be one. I don't think there is much to do, since it is not illegal to breed your dog. The fact that you brought her behavior to question is as far as you can go. We can only hope one day, she will realize of the many lives she helped bring into this world has been added to great population of dogs, and that there is a percentage statistically they may end up abandoned at shelters or rescues, or worst yet, overbred.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Well I dont think shes licensed under the city by law to run a rescue. I would have to find out somehow. Breeders and rescues must run under a kennel license which costs I think $500 a year. This fee includes the licensing of any dogs you get in. 

I also do not think shes a registered not for profit and she asks for donations. 

so maybe I could look into these to see. This isn the only things shes done I have witnessed. 

Two other things were she claimed dogs had vasectomies when they really didnt, adopted them out charging the owner for this so called vasectomy and this adopted dog that shouldnt be able to produce has sired a litter or two.

The other think was she buys puppies from people who want them gone and turns around and sells them for $350-$450 and the ONLY thing shes done was de worm them herself. She pays like $20 a pup from litters like these. 

So shes not an honest rescue. So maybe I will make a call to the city bylaw Tuesday and find out if theres anything that could be done.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

If a person meets the requirements for being ethical and responsible in their breeding practices I do not see why it would be a horrible thing to breed if they rescue. In fact, for me to consider someone responsible on the breeding side, they also have to be active on the rescue side at least as far as taking their own pups back. They get far and above kudos if they are active with a rescue group.

From what is posted, breeding an unregistered, untested, untitled dog, the breeder already would not make it onto my list of responsible & ethical breeders. If she is working with a group and not independently I might make sure they are aware of these breedings.

With the new info, she doesn't even sound like a reputable rescue either. Fail.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

She works for herself, but has volunteers for fostering and she pulls dogs from shelters in the US and takes dogs other rescues cant place or dont have room for. 

How would I go about making these people aware of whats up?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I believe there is a site, a Do Not Adopt maybe? that you can list such things on, or maybe it's just rescues that can list..

If she's supposed to be licensed, I'd turn her butt in with the complaints you have posted..unfortunately there are people who do this it's all about money


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

I wouldn't even call her a rescue. She is just a hypocritical BYB out for money.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I guess I would not agree with this particular person breeding this particular dog, but in general I do not see breeding and rescue as mutually exclusive. There are many great breeders that also help with rescue (and not just taking back dogs from their own breedings). Knowledgeable, purpose-driven breeding and rescue serve two different purposed. I have acquired animals both from rescues and from breeders. To me it would be hypocritical to hold breeders to a different standard than myself. JMHO


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

Jessiewessie99 said:


> I wouldn't even call her a rescue. She is just a hypocritical BYB out for money.


I also want to add that I am all for a good breeder helping with rescue. But if this person is breeding their rescue, that is not right.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Her dog isnt a rescue. She bought her Shepherd from a BYB and bred it. No health tests, no titles..nothing. 

But she complains when other people breed their pets. 

I think I may give a tip to the local by law department on Tuesday. I cant Monday as its the Civic Holiday. 

The breeder I bought my Rottie from actively rescues Rotties and Rottie mixes and she breeds her own two once a year but her dog are shown, titled and pass OFA etc.So I am fine with that. But not someone like the rescue I mentioned


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Are you turning her in because you believe she is hypocritical or because she is not a responsible rescue?


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

BowWowMeow said:


> Are you turning her in because you believe she is hypocritical or because she is not a responsible rescue?



Both. I believe her being hypocritical makes her a bad rescue. Shes not breeding her dog responsibly. Had she of bred a papered, titled, health checked dog and wasnt trying to profit off her adopters and didnt lie about a dog having a vasectomy then I wouldnt bother. 

But people adopt from her every day. She works with other rescues who I am sure are not aware of her breeding her dog. 

She gave me crap because Gunner was intact...and he was papered, was going to be titled and health checked.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I see a lot more red flags here than her breeding her byb bred dog. Shocked this is what "sent you over the edge"considering all the other things you are alluding too. This is rather insignificant imo when she is doing things like taking money for "donations"from people under the auspices of being a non profit when she isn't.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

and I have no problems with a rescue breeding their own dogs either, this particular person just seems to have red flags going off all over the place, I agree with Justine, it isn't just about the breeding part


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

See I didnt notice the other stuff until after she mentioned breeding her dog. Thats when I started to pay more attention. The more I was there the more she trusted me and started taking me along with her to pick rescues up. Thats when I noticed odd stuff like how a Basset Hound still had balls. When I asked why he had them if he was neutered, she claimed he had a vasectomy but there was no papers to prove it. So I thought it was possible, then I heard from the adopter he got her dog pregnant a week after bringing him home. She had a show dog, wanted a dog that couldnt inpregnate her. 

Then the other stuff like how much she paid for a litter of pups and why she was asking so much for them when they havent even been to a vet. 

Then I was like, oh..maybe I should get out of here. So I left. Then someone else posted an add on kijiji asking if anyone had any issues with her. I replied and she also was a foster there who told me pretty much the same stuff I already knew. 

Then I left it because I didnt want to get involved. But now shes adopting dogs out that still have their balls, claiming they have had a vasectomy and no papers to prove it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If she is breaking a law, and you feel strongly about it, turn her in. 

If she has bred a dog that is not breedworthy in YOUR opinion, and does not have the proper paperwork, licenses, and you do not have proof of this, then maybe what you should do, is mind your own business. 

Someone can be angry with people breeding their pets and not finding homes for them, dumping them at shelters, or on rescues. And actually participate in finding those dogs homes. It does not necessarily make her a hypocrite. She just has not bought into our generalized list of what it takes to be a responsible/ethical breeder.

Taking a bitch from a shelter or rescue with the agreement that it not be bred, and breeding it, that would make her a hypocrite, yes, or maybe someone who does not follow through on their promises. 

But just because she helps to home other people's dogs, does not mean she should not breed dogs. 

She SHOULD NOT breed dogs in the opinion of this forum because they are not x-rayed, do not have titles, do not have papers, and the whole nine yards, but she may have never visited this forum. 

We say over and over from a breeder's perspective that it is not the breeding of dogs, but the irresponsibility of people to care properly for the dogs they own. If a breeder dumps a litter or older breeding dogs, they are being irresponsible, crucify them, fine. Otherwise it is the people who buy dogs and dump them. Now, so far, you are not saying that this lady has dumped any dogs on any pounds, or shelters, or rescues. 

So she is not a hypocrite. She is just not the type of breeder that most of us want to go to. 

Please turn her in ONLY if you have evidence that she is committing a crime. Do not turn her in if she is doing something that is in your opinion, morally wrong.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, let's say, Chris Wild and Robin Huerta, both of whom are breeders, take on a group of dogs from a hoarder. There are a hundred dogs that need help: 70 puppies, 30 dogs. Each try to place half of these, most of which need some extensive vet care. 

Should they NOT help these dogs, because they are breeders? 

Should they NOT accept donations to provide food and veterinary care for these dogs?

Many, many breeders rescue dogs and find them homes. Most of us, just suck up the cost if it is one or two dogs here or there. But if a breeder were rescuing dogs on a regular basis and could get help to cover some of their expenses, I think that they could find some way to separate the businesses in the paperwork, trusting that the amount donated and charged for a rescued dog at the end of the day is less than or equal to the cost of rescuing the dog.


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

I think the issue here is that this rescuer is pulling some shady stuff. 
Way too many grey areas here, but sad to say, not uncommon. 

Annette


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that there is an awful lot of thinking going on, but not so much knowing. Do we KNOW that she does not have a license to run a kennel? A lot of kennel laws are set up for people who deal with more than a set number of dogs. I have a kennel license. It costs $50 and provides 5 licenses with additional licenses at 1$ each. Our licenses cost 10$ so the kennel license saves me money. 

Now, do we know that everyone who breeds even one litter needs to buy a $500 license? 

I read through this pretty fast, but it seemed that there is a person that most of us would consider a BYB, also rescuing dogs. That sounds a little better than a rescue that is breeding dogs that are turned over to them. 

There are disreputable rescues -- those that snag highly adoptable dogs, put little to nothing in them and turn them around for a healthy fee. But I do not know that this is happening here.

I think that once someone suggests someone is breeding outside of the acceptable range, they are open to attack on all fronts. Breeding irresponsibly is not shady it is ignorant, but it does not mean that her efforts on the part of abandoned dogs are null and void. 

For that matter, I was in a class with a lady who works at the county shelter who bought her GSD at a pet store in the Millcreek Mall in PA! Does the fact that she just supported a puppy mill, nullify everything she has ever done for the shelter?


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

Selzer, your missing the point.

She complains when people breed dogs without health checks and papers. Yet she bred her un papered un health checked dog for money. She added to the overpopulation issue. Had her dog of been health checked, papered and titled I wouldnt of cared. I dont even really care for papers either, just health checks and something to make the dog breed worthy. 

The law states you must purchase a kennel license if you own more then 3 dogs at one time which she does. She runs a rescue she has up to 10 dogs at once. Rescued must run under a kennel license and it must be displayed inside the main doorway or office which she has not. 

I dont like being told my papered, health checked and titled dog shouldnt be bred because theres enough puppies in the world then have this person breed her dog who might not even be pure. She thinks because shes a rescue she is the only one who does it right. 

I think I will report her, have them at least check on things. If somethings not legal she will be forced to make it legal or be shut down. 

I also do not like how her rescues live in crates in her basement either. They are ONLY let out to pee/poo and when a potential adopter comes in.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I did miss that in your original post. But I have never heard of anyone doing rescue be concerned about health certificates or papers. In fact, I find most of them to be a bit irritable about the whole papers thing, as papers should not give one dog the right to life and lack of them the right to death. 

There are some people involved with rescue with a more healthy attitude about breeds and breeders though. But these would NEVER breed a dog without the minimum qualifications better that satisfied.

So if she is preaching health screenings prior to breeding, and titles, and registration papers; and then is breeding outside of what she is preaching, yupp, she is a hypocrite. 

Ok, BUT just because she is saying there is an over-population problem, she, like so many others might not consider it to be so much the pure-bred dogs and especially puppies as the problem. So while she might not want people breeding their rotty to their shepherd, she may not see the same problem with herself breeding a shepherd to a shepherd. 

There is always the possibility that she has many inquiries for puppies, and is figuring on supplying the demand. She can always say that someone dumped their pregnant bitch. She can even say that the people she homed the bitch with did not follow through with the spay, and dumped her when she got pregnant again. The problem with shady people is that you cannot trust anything they say about anything.


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## malinois_16 (Aug 8, 2010)

If there is such demand for puppies she should of told them to go to a Shepherd rescue. Thats just my opinion. She also had an add on kijiji for her bitch to. So...that says a lot.


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## MustLoveGSDs (Oct 31, 2008)

That's pretty bad. Why the heck would she knowingly line the pockets of a backyard greeder and then go on to further perpetuate the cycle by breeding her own crapshoot dogs when she is supposed to be combating the BYB epidemic by by rescuing dogs. I don't understand that logic but there are some pretty interesting and crazy characters in the rescue world so can't say I am too surprised anymore.


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