# Lunging at hand for treat for training



## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Zoe just turned 9 months and is a really good girl, but she has picked up a new habit since I returned from a one week vacation. I use a clicker with her and have been working on her down stays. I tell her down, stay, and then walk one step at a time away from her about 8 steps away for now. She stays like a good girl, I click, and then treat. Normally she would gently bump my closed fist holding the treat with her nose, I would open, and she would gently take it. Now she bites my closed fist, I say easy, and when she chills the biting she then gets the treat. This is happening with every treat I give her during our sessions. I am not clicking for easy because I don't want to confuse her, but then I wonder since she gets the treat after not biting is she learning the treat is for not biting anyway and not getting it is a reward for staying? Should I just work with easy, click, and treat until she goes back to taking her treats nicely and stop our other training? We are currently working on her down stay, heeling a bit nicer, and staying on my left side no matter how good the pee on the right smells. I am also just now starting to try and break her of her barking at strangers issue so I stop when we see a stranger, tell her leave it letting them pass, and click and treat when she is quiet. I'd hate to stop all of this since she is making great progress but I can't have her biting her treats away either


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Stosh has started doing this too, he's even taken my hand holding the clicker in his whole mouth! I'm working on the 'easy' command too- I use a cheese stick with just a bit of it out for him to nibble as I say it and click. I've also been putting little pieces of treat on a spoon- since dogs don't like the feel of metal he gently picks the treat off of the spoon while I say easy. Seems to be getting better


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I may have to add a spoon to my fanny pack with treats,lol I just don't want her to confuse her reward for staying with a reward for being easy and I don't want to stop my other training with her to relearn easy. She's really nicking my hand up though,lol maybe a day or two relearning easy isn't such a big deal.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Stosh said:


> ...since dogs don't like the feel of metal...


Seriously? Shasta loves to chew on metal!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

So you click and then you have the treat in the other hand but you hold it close so she can't get to it? How long do you wait before you open the hand? The way I do it, there is very very little delay between click and reward and I don't make the dog do anything extra to get the reward after the click. To me, that's breaking the rule of the game. Dog does something right, click, and BAM reward. Sometimes I would even just throw at the treat at him or toss it on the ground. Other time, I immediately stuff it in his face. It's kind of like if I ask a dog to heel nicely and his reward is the ball. Now when I want to reward, I don't go "click" and then say "sit, wait for your ball" and then give him the ball. I chuck it for him as soon as I click because that is his reward for doing a nice heel.

Now away from the regular stuff that you are training you can start working with her on being polite about taking treats. But treat that as a separate obedience exercise and train it that way. Don't combine the two right away.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

She used to get it immediately until she started getting too excited and lunging at my open hand with treat. Now I keep my hand closed to avoid losing a finger,lol So you think I should just drop her treat in front of her when she down stays, but work on easy with treat in hand?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I should have said MY dogs don't like the feel of metal in their mouth. One wouldn't even eat out of a metal bowl. Guess I just assumed it was most dogs


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, it depends on how you use the click. Is the click also her "release" or do you have a separate release? If the click doubles as the release (how I do it), then when I click, that means the dog can break position. In which case, yes, I just toss the treats. If the dog knows how to catch the treat in mid air, you can do that too. If the click is not her release, then you can give her her reward in front of her while she is still holding her down stay. It's a good way to reinforce the correct position anyway. And then away from that I would work with her on taking the treat nicely.

BTW, how are you holding the treat when you give it to her? Don't hold the treat out. Jam the treat between your thumb and index finger, turn your palm towards the dog, make a slight cup with your hand and let the dog come in your hand to take the treat. When the dog is being polite and good, open your thumb and let the dog get it. It's a lot safer then sticking your fingers out at the dog and hope she does not bite them!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

The click is not her release- we use the word release to allow her to move again so she does get the treat while actually down staying. I have tried your method of treating- it was what we always did, but all the sudden she literally lunges toward the treat and eats my whole hand- I could just drop it, but I don't want her to think when I drop it I did so because she lunged if that makes sense. Thats why I started closing the treat in my hand making a fist around it. Then she could lunge and bite the hand, but not get the reward until she was easy. I can work on easy separately, but what do I do about our other training where she is inhaling my hand with the treat in it? I just don't want her to think I am dropping the treat to not get bit or it is okay to snatch a treat like that from anyone since my kids give her treats as well.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, I would just devote 4-5 sessions working on "easy". No obedience. Just show her the treat and don't give it to her unless she takes it nicely and when she does, click/reward. By isolating the exercise, you will be making it very clear to her what it is she is supposed to do. And then when you feel that she has a good understanding of the command "easy or that she understand you expect her to be polite about taking treats, then you can integrate the criteria ("take treat nicely") back into the rest of training. 

Until then, either throw the treat or give it to her anyway that is the least painful lol. And if you want strangers to give her food, tell them you are working on "easy" right now but she is still a work in progress so beware


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I should upload pics of my right hand- it looks like raw hamburger right now from miss food excited,lol We have done 10 rounds of easy and let me tell you that click takes forever- she just really wants to swallow my hand with treat whole, but I will be dropping the treat when we are working on other things until this subsides. She whines, paws at, and bites my hand for a good 20 seconds before she relents and gently takes it easy.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Maybe I'm confused. 

So you're using a food reward for maintaining position, in sort of the same way as you would use a bridge before the release? To let your dog know she is doing a good job and to keep doing it? To my mind that would break concentration on the task...

I guess I only reward when I release, similar to Jason, in which case I will toss or shove much as described previously!

I agree also to separate the behavior and train your expectations similarly. Although I would also view it as a nice comment on her enthusiasm!


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

She's real enthusiastic I'll give her that,lol Maybe I should release her from her down stay and reward then instead, but will she think she's being rewarded for the release and not the pretty staying? I saw the video's of your awesomely trained dogs so if this is what you do I assume your dogs did get the difference and Zoe will too


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

For the down stay, what I do is stretch out the time that I ask them to stay. If they get up before I release then I say "No..." maybe give a collar correction, and put them back to where they were. When I give my release/marker I almost immediately reward...but I throw the treat/toy behind them. So it's almost simultaneous. OKAY!!Throw. (This will save your hands!) If I always release them and have them come to me for their treat they will start to break their down stay and come to me to get paid. 

You slowly build up the time they have to wait until they hear the click/release and get the reward and keep it variable. I'm starting the long down with Cade, and I might ask for 15seconds, then 30 seconds, then a full minute, then 20 seconds in one session. Over time I'll build it up but I will keep some short ones in there so he remains attentive during the static position and doesn't automatically go into Check out and wait mode. This way there is no reward during the down, and the reward is not actually for the down itself...but for holding the position.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Makes sense and my right hand will thank you I promise. Zoe loves to learn I swear only because she loves food and sticks for fetch as a reward. Works in my favor though her easy to motivate self is quick to pick things up


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