# Osteosarcoma



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

This evening Kaiser was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his left humerus. To say we're devastated is an understatement.









He started occasionally limping a couple months ago, and x-rays showed some slight arthritis in his shoulder but nothing else was obvious, so we increased his joint supplements and started giving him rimadyl on bad days. In the past month, it's gotten worse and more chronic and the supplements and NSAIDs haven't been helping, so we were going to pursue acupuncture to see if that would help. He had x-rays tonight to see the state of the arthritis and get an idea of how much it had advanced compared to how quickly his symptoms have progressed, and we discovered it wasn't arthritis after all.

We'll be scheduling an appointment with a veterinary oncologist to discuss options early next week, but in the meantime I'm going to be researching what I can. I've not had much time to go Googling yet, though I will over the weekend, and I wanted to come here first to get ideas from other GSD folks who may have experienced this. 

There's 3 main things I'd love to hear opinions on, but any other info is very appreciated too.

Radiation... The vet suggested a radiation therapy to relieve the pain. Looking online, this appears to have a moderate success rate (about 2/3s). It is *extremely* expensive, and will be very difficult for us to handle in our current financial state, but we'll do it if it will help. If it won't, I'd rather put the time, energy and finances into something that will.

Amputation.... It would have a 100% success rate in terms of pain relief, and eliminating chances of fractures or other injuries to the damaged bone. It might also slow progression of the cancer to other organs. And I know dogs don't have the same mental hang ups over losing a limb that people do. I've known many tripods who got along just fine... but those were all younger dogs. Would an active 11yo dog be able to adjust to losing a front limb, and learn new motor patterns to get along ok? 

Chemo.... having watched many family members go through chemo I would never wish it on anyone and I would not want to make what little time he has left miserable. But reading online I see many statements that dogs don't seem to react as severely to it as humans, and it might not make him that miserable after all. Would love opinions on this from people who have had dogs go through chemo. We'd jump on the chance to buy him more time, so long as it can be quality time.


----------



## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I don't know anything abut it but I just wanted to say I'm sorry. It's so hard to make these decisions for our dogs, especially after 11 years. Hugs for Kaiser.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am very sorry Chris-that is a rough thing to hear and deal with to say the least. 

You are going to get a lot of information coming at you. And could go bonkers reading that cancer link thread. 

I never had the time to sort it out this way, but suggest you do some kind of excel sheet or something so you can categorize it, like treatments, supplements, supplements that are supposed to be treatments, foods, and then some kind of log to track his progress. There may be other categories. 

I know the IMOM people I always ask stuff of ask how the lungs look as a real basic way of starting the decision process. If there are mets (longer word not sure of spelling) in the lungs, they do hospice and big pain management. If not, it starts a new process. One of the questions that they asked me was can they guarantee remission and then that started a whole new decision making process. I found that this kind of logic made things easier but don't think that this is THE only way to make a decision. I just liked having a framework and went through similar with the vet. 

I have heard okay things about both amputation and chemo in terms of the effects on the dog compared to how we react to it, not as much in terms of effectiveness. Clarifying this-I haven't heard much in terms of effectiveness (remission rates etc-that would be something I'd want to research) as compared to the "better than in human" things I've heard about amputation and chemo. I hope that makes more sense now. 

Morris Animal Foundation sometimes has studies you can participate in. http://www.morrisanimalfoundation.org/ They also have a big thing on cancer-I think there is a video and I can't find it right now on their site. I'll keep searching. This may be it: http://www.morrisanimalfoundation.org/resources/ccexclusive/

The Magic Bullet Fund is the Help Your Dog Fight Cancer Lady-and that's another info source. http://www.helpyourdogfightcancer.com

You might find some more information on Rottie and Golden websites-I think those are two breeds with a lot of this type of cancer?

I am sorry-I am sure you will get some good information here and know everyone is going to be thinking of Kaiser and you all.


----------



## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I'm no help at all either but just wanted to say I'm so sorry. I know you'll do whats best for your boy. 
Hugs,


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am so sorry you are going through this. I know that whatever decision you make will be made out of concern for the well-being of this dog. 

I have read an artical in dog fancy or dog world about using a special diet and maybe homeopathic stuff to give the dog the best life, fight the cancer without surgery or chemo/radiation. 

Sending good thoughts your way.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Chris,

I'm very sorry to hear about Kaiser. I have known of older dogs who got an amputation and adjusted. I know a young boxer mix who had osteosarcoma in his front leg and had it amputated and had about 6 months of chemo. He did pretty well with the chemo except for one bad stint where he ended up in the hospital for a few days. He is being treated at Cornell. He is just finishing the chemo now. 

I know that SuzyE on this board had an older dog (Jazmin) who had cancer and her leg amputated. I remember that initially she had trouble adjusting but then she got along great. I can't remember if she got chemo or not but unfortunately she did succumb to the cancer. 

I hope that whatever treatment you choose that it gains you more quality time with Kaiser.


----------



## poohbearsdad (Mar 24, 2008)

So sorry to hear that your pup is going through this. Too many of our pups have had to join the osteosarcoma club. There is a bone cancer group on yahoo. Maybe they will let you in. There are also a avemar group, an artemisinin group, and other cancer related groups as well. 

Whichever way you go, its a tough choice. Poohbear ended up on basically pallitive treatment but she also had a mass in her chest by the time we found the osteo. Will pray for good things for you and your pup.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Oh Chris I am so sorry to hear about Kaiser.

I have had no direct experience with cancer but my good friend started her natural pet supply store after losing a dog to Osteosarcoma.

This is what they did and they were happy with their choices.

1) X-rayed for lung involvement with the decision that if the lungs were involved they would look at pain management (perhaps amputation) and quality of life.

2) Lungs were not involved so they did amputation and chemo. She's told me that Bear was usually off one meal only after chemo and then back to eating with gusto after the one meal. No vomiting and no diarrhea.

Bear adjusted very quickly to losing the front leg and she said she was amazed at how fast he learned to bring the remaining leg more under the center of his chest.

I don't remember how long Bear lived, but I do know he was an old dog and died at 14. Something in the back of my brain says that they had him another year.

She has told me that even to this day they don't question any of their choices.

Another friend had a Great Dane that got it in a front leg. He chose not to do the amputation and Lewis' leg broke one day when he was simply walking across the living room. He too was "old" (For a Great Dane) and after the leg break had the same treatments as Bear did. Again I don't remember how long Lewis lived but I remember thinking at the time that it was quite a while for a Great Dane with Osteosarcoma.

Again, I am so very sorry


----------



## rapnek74 (Mar 19, 2009)

Good luck with what ever you decide to do.


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Chris, I'm terribly sorry to read this.

Irish Wolfhound people that I know have opted against amputation but that's largely b/c they're such tall, leggy dogs & it's believed the recovery & adjustment will be overwhelmingly difficult.

Someone I know opted twice for amputation with his 2 Rotties. Both dogs had almost immediate recurrences of the cancer & I don't think either lived even 2mos. Despite that, perhaps he feels it was right & necessary. I'm not sure.

Your guy is considerably smaller & less massive. IF his other signs are good, amputation *might* be a reasonable option. His overall health, fitness, strength (mental & physical) & vigor are all factors that are very much in his favor, but there is his age.

I worked organ transplant for 13+ yrs. Something I saw over & over with bone marrow transplant recipients & chemo/radiology patients is that there is nothing, really nothing, which trumps youth. An overweight, flaccid, whiny, weak, needy, lazy 20yr old would time after time fare much MUCH better than even strong, vigorous, active, healthy, marathon runners in their 40s, 50s & 60s. I don't know if the same correlation is seen with dogs or not, particularly since dogs are largely spared the all out nuclear attacks humans subject themselves to when seeking a cure regardless of the cost to themselves.

_"I know the IMOM people I always ask stuff of ask how the lungs look as a real basic way of starting the decision process."_ My vet said this as well. He felt there was no point to anything but palliative care when Brighid, my last IW, had osteo b/c there were lung mets. A friend opted for chemo with her IW b/c the lungs were clear. More time & increased quality of life were the goals rather than a cure. Her girl lived an additional 18mos & her quality of life was very good. She was active, happy & involved until the very end. She lived with 6 other IWs, 5 of which were young adults, extremely active, always running, carousing & play fighting. She kept up with them until the last couple of months.

From what I know of dogs & chemo I'd definitely pursue it unless there's a good reason against it. When it was thought Cochise had cancer I'd planned on chemo if he was a good candidate. (He died of DIC a week after the removal of his spleen. In an ugly irony he was an excellent candidate for anything despite being 12.5+yrs old, & in an even uglier irony he didn't have cancer). I adored that guy, but dignity & quality of life were too important to him to risk losing. Chemo would never have been considered if I felt it would rob him of his zest for life.


----------



## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

Sorry to hear about your boy. From my experience at the Oncology hospital over 2 years, there were many dogs there having one or or a combo of these 3 treatments. The dogs that had amputations were all doing great all sizes very large to small. Biggest thing was the pain was gone and the dogs were able to go back to a normal life. Also my feeling if you catch it early and can cut it out, do so I would think this would give you a better prognosis.

Chemo is not as hard on the dogs in general as people as they are not try to cure, just treat it enough to maintain the highest quality of life. My boy did great and only had a few bad days in the course of 2 rounds of chemo. Aside from the cost, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again for another dog.

Diet for dogs with cancer no/low carbs if you feed raw that is great, stay away from grains if possible.

Omega 3's are great to help the body fight cancer. There is also a supplement called "ProtectaCell" that is for dogs with cancer you might want to check out.

I found a lump in one of my girls breasts on Wednesday giving her a bath which had bloodly fluid in it. I scheduled an appointment with the Oncologist the next day and it turned out she not only had that lump, but two small ones in the breast behind, deeper in the tissue. She had surgery today and they removed both breasts and hopefully the tumors are benign. With cancer, the sooner you act the better your prognosis usually is.


----------



## Muttman (Sep 16, 2009)

My heart goes out to you. I cannot offer anything except my sympathy for you and Kaiser.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

Oh Chris! I am SO sorry! Osteosarcoma is a hideous disease and having lost two dogs to it, I know only too well what devastating news that is. 

Our experiences were mixed, so I'll give you both - Kira was our first dog to get it. She was a Husky/GSD mix, 9 years old, almost 10 when diagnosed (rear leg) and otherwise in excellent health. She had been limping a bit and just seemed a bit off. We got the diagnosis via x-ray and the vet actually offered to euth her right there. I was practically lying on the floor sobbing. I had come in thinking she had a mild sprain and suddenly we're talking euthanasia. Needless to say I did NOT go back to that vet. One thing to know is that any kind of bone cancer looks more or less the same on x-ray and the only way to know absolutely for sure is biopsy but of course a bone biopsy is terribly invasive and painful. We decided to go with amputation followed by chemo, but we wanted to know for sure what we were dealing with - but we didn't want to put her under twice or increase the risk of mets with a biopsy. By having her treated at a vet school, we were able to work out an arrangement where they actually had an oncologist assess the tumor while she was under and proceed with the amputation when they confirmed the diagnosis. (but it's important to know that there ARE some benign types of bone tumors - they're not as common as cancer but they're out there, so that's something to hope for)

For Kira, who really did have osteosarcoma, amputation was ABSOLUTELY the right call. I hadn't realized just how much pain she'd been in - she was a pretty stoic dog, until she came hobbling out of the back 2 days post op with a huge smile on her face wagging her tail. I realized then just how incredibly painful these bone tumors must be if having your leg cut off feels better. 

She healed great following the amputation and proceeded to chemo with no issues. Like you, I've had close friends and family go through chemo and their suffering is nothing I'd ever wish on my dog, but with dogs they really do handle it better. Part of it is just being different animals, but a big part of it is that they don't dose dogs as high as they do people because dogs don't need to live as long. You're only trying to knock the cancer out for a few years not decades like you do with people. Kira would have some mild diarrhea on chemo days but other than that had no symptoms or side effects. No nausea, no hair loss, nothing. And that's been consistent with other pet owners I've talked to. So at least that part of it is something. It is awfully expensive but the dogs handle it well. 

Kira lived just over a year post diagnosis and it was a good year. I am glad we did what we did. She adjusted to being a tripod no problem and we had a lot of good times together before she passed. 

My next dog to get Chemo was my Golden Retriever Charlotte. In that case the outcome was different but I think that was largely due to two factors - 1. Charlotte was almost 13 at diagnosis and in basically good health but not nearly as youthful as Kira had been and 2. We didn't catch it until she had a pathological fracture. I'd noticed her limping and she'd even been to the vet but as in your case, she was an older dog and we put it down to arthritis. We were keeping an eye on it and giving her mild pain meds when one evening she got knocked into by one of the other dogs on their way to the backyard and her leg broke. That was horrible. She was a tremendously stoic and low affect dog and we had no idea how bad anything was until that happened. 

Having had the previous experience with Kira, we resolved to treat Charlotte the same way. We proceeded with the amputation and planned to do chemo, but before we ever got healed up from the amputation she was having mets all over her skin and interfering with her motor function. She never walked unassisted again after the night her leg broke. We spent 2 weeks trying to rehab her before it became obvious that things were only getting worse not better and we put her to sleep. I had her from when I was 14 years old until I was 27 and she was my sweetest girl and my rock. Losing her was terrible and my only consolation was that 13 is actually pretty old for a Golden and I was lucky to have her as long as I did. However, in retrospect, I very much wish we hadn't put her through those last couple weeks. 

SO... having now seen way more osteosarcoma than I ever hoped to, my perspective is the following - if the dog is in otherwise robust health and fairly active, I think amputation followed by chemo can be a very good option and one that will extend your time together, including some good quality time, even though with osteosarcoma the likelihood of a complete cure is not that great. Even if I wasn't going to do chemo, I would do the amputation purely for the pain relief. The lung mets are at least not painful and that's typically where the disease comes back, so you can enjoy your dog's company pain free for at least a few weeks or months.

For dogs who are otherwise infirm, or extremely old, then those options are not nearly as viable - because even if they did work, the chances of having a lot of time left with the dog are not great. 

It's been a couple years but somewhere I've got a bunch of files of research papers and literature about the disease that I'll try to locate for you. 

Again, my most heartfelt sympathy for what you're going through.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

A special







to Kaiser and your family.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Oh no.....I am so so sorry









I don't have much to add, except that Cancer Sucks.

I don't think that any of the options is easy, best of luck with your decisions


----------



## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I looked into everything I could find about osteosarc a few years ago when my 10 yr old got it. He had it in his front leg and I noticed it almost immediately as there was a painful bump which was the actual cancer eating out his bone. My dog had some other issues so I decided that putting him down was the right thing to do. At the end, it looked like there was golfball on his leg that was very painful to the touch. It never really bothered him to run around on it though and didn't need pain meds, but other dogs do need it; it seems to be very individual.

My research showed that the average time from first symptoms to fracture was 6 weeks so I waited 4 weeks. After hearing repeatedly how horribly painful the fracture is for the dog, I didn't want that to be the last thing my dog experienced and my last memory of him. I loved him too much for that.

From what else I found was that if the dog is younger and in good health, that amputation with chemo and radiation could extend the dog's life for about 2 years. Amputation alone, only about 6 months. The amputation can be extremely painful initially for a lot of dogs but then they are pain-free until the cancer returns. All of this is extremely expensive, so you have to consider that too.

This cancer is very prevalent in greyhounds and from the greyhound forums I did hear of some very young dogs that did the full treatment that lived up to 6 years post diagnosis.

I am so sorry your dog has this and can only suggest you decide quickly what you want to do.


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Chris, I am so sorry to hear this horrible news. I hope there is something out there to help Kaiser. Have you heard of Quadramet? I remember I've heard about this new anti-cancer drug for dogs not long time ago. http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/news/Cassie.aspx


----------



## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

First hugs for you and the boy ... it's a hard thing to adjust to the idea even. 

I would be tempted to go for the amputation with a GSD and as others have suggested follow up with chemo. The front limb doesn't carry a terrible amount of the body weight and as it's been bothering him he's most likely favoring it already. I have a Basset who is 11 with a large fatty tumor around her foreleg which causes a mechanical problem but she's still handling it. We discussed the option of amputation in her case, but with the build of a Basset we don't feel it would work out well as it would put a huge amount of the weight on her other foreleg.


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Chris, I'm so very sorry to hear about Kaiser's diagnosis of this dreadful form of cancer.

From what I've read, they've made progress with cancer treatments since the following happened to Niki.

My only experience with osteosarcoma was when Niki was diagnosed 8-1/2 years ago (February 2001) after what I initially thought was a sprained ankle. When it didn't get any better after a week of house arrest, an x-ray revealed what our vet was pretty sure was osteosarcoma. It took two bone biopsies to confirm the initial diagnosis. Head-to-toe x-rays revealed it had not spread.

Niki was much younger than Kaiser, 6 years old. My vet wanted to amputate his leg, I made the dreadful mistake of opting to control the pain thru medication. Even today I'm still kicking myself for making such a terrible mistake at one of the Hooligan's expense. I'll never forgive myself.

Anyway, I learned at Niki's expense, that you can't easily control the pain of osteosarcoma. Different common pain meds didn't touch it. The next step was Duragesic (fentanyl) patches. These were extremely expensive, left each spot where the patch was applied with weeping/bleeding dermatitis, and were ineffective against the pain. The last drug we tried was methadone; it was also not an effective pain medication for this form of cancer.

Amputation was the only pain control avenue left.

After another series of x-rays to confirm the cancer had not spread, his right front leg was amputated at the shoulder (no bones were cut, it was removed at the joint). He was on morphine the first couple days after the surgery. 

In less than 48 hours after the surgery, I was walking him in the front yard with a sling. I accidently dropped the sling, he hopped out, got his ball, and was ready to play. I was amazed. I had to stop walking him with the sling and just used a leash. It was all I could do to keep him under house arrest until the stitches were removed and he got the okay from the surgeon to resume a normal life. 

Normal life was just that. Normal. He was able to do everything on three legs he did on four including digging holes in the yard. He couldn't run as fast, but was able to keep up with the older Hooligans with ease. He didn't learn everything at once, but it didn't take long. He held his own in shoving matches with the other Hooligans, went up and down stairs with ease, got on and off the furniture, played ball until my arm was ready to fall off, etc, etc, etc.

He had been diagnosed with mild HD years before the cancer, something I didn't take into account when I had the surgery. Looking back I would have made the same decision, but would have certainly taken his hips into consideration. 

Around the end of November he began having some problems. I've always felt a lot of the problems were related to his hips - x-rays did not reveal the cancer had spread to his lungs. He was put on pred, pain meds, accupuncture, etc., but he was losing ground. I knew it wouldn't be long, but as long as I could keep him comfortable, and he was happy, I was happy.

On December 21, I put the Hooligans outdoors. Niki didn't come in and I found him laying in the side yard. He couldn't get up. My neighbor came over and we lifted him up in the van. He was in pain. I drove him to the vet's and held his head as he made the trip to the Bridge.

RIN TIN TIN'S NIKI - picture taken right before surgery
May 5, 1994 - December 21, 2001


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

OH Chris and Tim!!!! I am so very, very sorry to read this.









A friend's rotti, at age 9, was diagnosed. They chose no treatment and she lived a wonderful 6 more weeks with them making the decision when she was no longer comfortable. They worried she would fracture at the site and then not be able to do things on their terms while she was still fairly comfortable.

A lovely GSD at the vet where I worked was diagnosed and they chose radiation. I don't have all the details to memory unfortunately but I do recall she had a good quality of life for about 6 months. It was a long process, lots of visits to the specialist, lots of bloodwork, lots of worried moments.

While we all could give you our stories or stories of others, you know Kaiser the best and know how he'd handle it. I have no idea what I'd do if I were in your shoes and am not about to guess. I know that you and Tim will make the decision that is best for him.

I pray for strength for all of you, loving and happy times for all of you and peace for you for whatever decision you make.


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Chris, I am so sorry to hear this. I think Jean did have a good idea though. Call the Morris Foundation. They do not do the studies themselves, but I believe what they do is help fund different studies through different universities. Hopefully, they will be able to point you in the right direction for treatment. I do not have any personal experience with cancer in dogs so I don't really have any advice other than call Morris. Also, try calling around to the different vet schools to see what studies they are doing. Dr Clark (EPI genius) is now at Cornell. Maybe you could email her and see if she could help point you in the right direction as far as which school would help you best. She returns emails very quickly (within 12 hours is my experience). Zappa has a vet appointment this weekend and I will also bring it up to him and see if he may know any information. He keeps in close contact with Texas A&M so he may be able to give me something to go on.
My thoughts and prayers are with you Chris.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Chris I am sorry for Kaiser and you and Tim.

It seems to be a really tough call in terms of treatment. I haven't had to deal with it, so I don't have any information to share. Just wanted to say it sucks.

Val


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

It's a tough call. One thing I found helpful was asking my vets what they would do if it were their dog.

A friend's Elkhound was probably 12 or 13 when he was diagnosed with bone cancer in his jaw. She opted for surgery. He lived to be something like 16. His tongue hung out a little bit and he was a messier eater but that was all. I do not know if they did chemo or not.

With hemangio sarcoma discovered last winter in Barker the Younger, (10-11 yo at the time) we did surgery (no option there except euthanasia or letting her bleed out and die) followed by chemo. She had no bad effects from the chemo but I don't think it did any good. She died 3 months after she first showed what I considered symptoms, about 2 1/2 months after her spleenectomy. (Yes, the whole thing was expensive but my vet waived a huge amount of fees.)

Wishing you the best as you struggle with this decission. It would be so simple if we had a clear picture of do this = this result.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Thanks you everyone for the kind words, support, and valuable information. I'm feeling much better armed with info and options to discuss with the oncologist next week. It sounds like amputation is a very viable, and possibly advisable option, so we will certainly look seriously into that. 

He's so healthy, happy and active every other way, more so than most 11yo GSDs I've seen, that I think he'd have a good chance making it through that sort of surgery and recovering afterwards and having a high quality of life for the few months he'd have left.

Please keep Kais in your thoughts and prayers, and keep all this great info coming. We really appreciate it!


----------



## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

I'm sorry I have nothing to contribute in the way of information, as I've not had a dog with this type of cancer, but I just wanted to add that we'll be keeping you all in our thoughts and prayers. So sorry to hear


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerChris I am sorry for Kaiser and you and Tim.
> It seems to be a really tough call in terms of treatment. I haven't had to deal with it, so I don't have any information to share. Just wanted to say it sucks.
> Val


 x' 2
The Wildhaus family is in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

I am so sorry! Positive thoughts and prayers coming your way.


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

So saddened to read this news!


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Chris, so sorry to hear this. A good friend is going through this with her Rottweiler. I will pm you her email addy as she may have some input.
She has done tons of research into pain management and treatment options. 
Her boy was diagnosed in April (slight lameness noted last November) and is doing well right now.
You may even know her as they are/were pretty active in schutzhund.


----------



## sleachy (Aug 10, 2001)

Chris and Tim, 

I am so sorry you are going thru this with your dog Kaiser. I don't have much advice to add except that I personally know and helped rehab 2 older dogs who lost limbs due to osteosarcoma.

The first was an 11 yr old greyhound who had a front leg amputated. Before the vets decided to remove his leg, they put a sling on him that kept his front leg curled under his body to see if he would/could walk without it. After his leg was removed, he was like a puppy again! All of his pain was gone! He lived for a year without doing chemo/radiation. They went the herbal supplement route and monitored his lungs to see if the cancer was coming back. 

The second was a 9 yr old rotti who lost a rear leg. She had a tougher time adjusting but eventually she was able to get around. I remember my friend chosing to give her injections of some sort...not sure what it was but it was very costly and, in hindsight, didn't buy the dog much time (6-7mths). 

Our time with our friends is too short. What precious time you have with him, I know you will spoil him and love him. And he knows it too.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I am very sorry to hear about Kaiser.

I can answer some of the questions, unfortunately from personal experience.

I have recently done chemo with my BoBo and he did beautifully, it was worth every minute we gained together. The tests were more expensive than the chemo, I think a university hospital costs less than a specialist.

This is his thread and the chemo is and recovery from surgery& chemo is documented here

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1011175&page=6#Post1011175 

For both of us this time was precious as we had the opportunity to say goodbye. I would do it again, even knowing the outcome.

In Kaiser's case what I would consider is whether he has major lung metastases and whether his three remaining legs are strong enough to support him. If no metastases and other legs are in good shape, I would definitely do the amputation and probably the chemo after he recovers from the surgery.

I have no experience with radiation, I think amputation is better in terms of pain relief - if his remaining legs can handle the dog's weight.

Prayers going to you and Kaiser.


----------



## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Best wishes.








Anything I have read agrees with the information you have already been given above. I would also choose amputation if only for pain relief for an otherwise alert & active dog. 

I'm so sorry that Kaiser has had this diagnosis but it appears to be at an early stage and that is always an advantage. All the very best.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Kaiser had his oncology appointment today. X-rays showed no mets in the lungs or any other organs, and his blood work came back clear. So while we understand chances are the cancer is already in those organs, it's just microscopic at this point and too small to be detected, that was very good news as it means we have options and caught it early enough for treatment to make a big difference in the time he'll have left.

We're going to pursue amputation of his left front leg, followed up by chemo once he recovers from surgery. He's already been getting around quite well on 3 legs during his bad days the past couple of weeks, so I don't think he'll miss that leg too much. He'll no doubt be glad to have it gone since the pain will also be gone and he won't have that annoying hanging appendage bouncing off things.









Thanks again, everyone!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Good luck, I hope he makes a complete and speedy recovery.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Well that's good news, considering some of the other possible outcomes. 

All my best wishes to Kaiser and his Mom and Dad!


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Good luck with the surgery!


----------



## JasperLoki (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

I am so sorry to hear of this Chris, My thoughts/prayers are with you


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

At least there was some good news! I will be praying for you and Kaiser Chris. Keep us updated on how he does with his treatments.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Hoping for the best for you and Kaiser.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Sending good wishes for you and Kaiser.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Best of luck, and many many pain free days for your boy!


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

I have nothing to offer other than my heartfelt condolences to you Chris and Tim. What heartbreaking news.

I know that whatever you choose to do, Kaiser will enjoy whatever remaining time he has with you and your pack. *HUGS*


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

That is good news Chris, I hope you have many pain free days with Kaiser!!!


----------



## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Best of luck for a speedy recovery for Kaiser.


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

Sending sincere wishes for speedy recovery, freedom from pain, and quick adaptation for Kaiser and some peace of mind for Chris and Tim.

Mary Jane


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma... Kaiser Update*

The Hooligans and I are sending our love,







best wishes







and warmest thoughts to Kaiser!


----------



## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I did a lot of research on osteosarcoma a few years ago because my dog Ginger had suspected osteosarcoma at 11 years old. I have saved a list of website links which might be helpful. They're at the bottom of my post.
With Ginger I first noticed a swelling in her leg, and I was immediately worried about the "c" word... I took her to my vet who took x-rays. They were not totally conclusive but she suspected osteosarcoma. My vet recommended a bone biopsy, and referred us to an oncologist. The oncologist took more x-rays which were also not conclusive-- the appearance and location were not typical of osteosarcoma but she was still afraid that may be the cause so after doing chest x-rays which came back clear and bloodwork which came back normal we went ahead and did the bone biopsy. The bone biopsy came back inconclusive as well-- it showed reactive bone. The oncologist suggested waiting a month and then doing more x-rays and said we could still not rule out osteosarcoma but she was not convinced that was the cause. My regular vet suggested trying an antibiotic used for bone infections while we waited, and the swelling seemed to decrease a bit and later x-rays showed no growth so we were able to rule out osteosarcoma. However Ginger had some issues with lameness (limping after exercise) after that due to the bone biopsy.



Here are the links I have saved about osteosarcoma. They are various topics about canine osteosarcoma including information sites about osteosarcoma or treatments, cancer supplements, support sites, products for 3-legged-dogs, and info on cancer studies and trials currently available for dogs with osteosarcoma to participate in (most are chemotherapy trials.)

http://www.kateconnick.com/library/nealregret.html
http://www.bonecancerdogs.org/
http://tripawds.com/resources/
http://www.orthopets.com/
http://www.ihearttripods.com/
http://www.dogleggs.com/files/vest.cfm
http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/data/news/trials.html
http://www.dogmobility.com/harness.html
http://www.smdi.org/products.htm
http://www.dogcancer.net/immunity.html
http://www.k-9kitchen.com/essexcancerdiet.html
http://www.tammyandteddys.com/index.htm
http://www.tugnhug.com/page13.html
http://www.herbal-treatments.com/herbs_for_dogs.html
http://www.caninecancer.com/clinicaltrial.html


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The October issue of the Whole Dog Journal has an article on acupuncture and reducing the side effects of cancer treatment. It gives some hope in the benefits of acupuncture to control pain, return appetite, etc from chemo.


----------



## Fluffypants (Aug 31, 2003)

I'm so sorry to hear... but glad that it was caught early and you have some options! Saying prayers for your boy! 

Tanja


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Thanks again everyone! And Chicagocanine, thank you much for the big list of links. Lots of great info there.

Kaiser is at MSU's vet teaching hospital this morning getting his leg amputated. I'll be tied to the phone waiting for the call that he's done with surgery, and then we get to pick him up tomorrow. They want us to wait 7-10 days after surgery before starting chemo, so we'll be following up with that once we get the go ahead from MSU.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

You are in my thoughts today, stay strong!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Great place for a great dog! Will be thinking of you guys!!!!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

MSU just called. He made it through surgery fine and is in recovery now. They're going to keep him sleeping most of the day, then will let him wake up later this afternoon and if he does ok, which of course he will (it's Kaiser after all!), we can bring him home tomorrow morning.


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

Great news Chris!

Kaiser is on the road to recovery.

MJ


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Awesome!!! So glad to hear it all went went. Have been keeping a wish and a prayer for you and Kaiser in my heart.


----------



## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery for Kaiser. I bet you can't wait until tomorrow morning!

~Kristin


----------



## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

Glad Kais' surgery went well.. sending prayers and LOTS and LOTS of positive energy for a quick and healthy recovery. Hugs.


----------



## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

So happy for you guys and Kaiser that it went well. I'll bet he'll be glad to be home tomorrow! Thank goodness your dogs are all in such great shape, because it seems that it would make his adjustment much easier. Hoping for a very speedy recovery for Mr. Handsome!


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Thanks for the update Chris. (We're crossing our fingers for Kaiser to come home tomorrow morning!)


----------



## Annikas Mom (Jun 10, 2004)

Just saw this thread Chris...

Great news that he has no mets seen on x-ray! I think you have made the best decision for Kaiser, gettin' rid of that painful limb he will be back to his old self in no time. I am sending all my best to you, Tim and Kaiser for a speedy recovery and lots of joyful times together!!


----------



## gsdlove212 (Feb 3, 2006)

Hugs to you and Tim. And thoughts of adoration and healing being sent out to Kais!


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm so glad to hear that the surgery went well. Please keep us updated on his progress.

Sending him lots of cyberhugs, warm thoughts and prayers!


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

That is good news. I am sure he will be fine when they wake him up this afternoon and then he can go home tommorow am.

Thanks for the update.

Val


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Glad to hear the surgery went well, I'm continuing the thoughts your way!


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

and ear scritches to your pack!


----------



## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

MY Kaiser, Casey Gypsy and I, are all pullin' for you!
Positive thoughts and prayers coming your way.


----------



## meisha98 (Aug 27, 2008)

Kaiser is in our thoughts as you start down the path of options. Good luck and we wish nothing but the best possible outcome for him.


----------



## Qyn (Jan 28, 2005)

Thanks for the update.


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

That he comes home today!


----------



## jesmagmisty (Jul 13, 2001)

I am so glad to hear surgery went well. Chris, when Maggie had cancer we went with the Chinese mushrooms/treatments and they did extend her life more than what was expected. My thought was they certainly couldn't hurt. I'm not sure how it would affect radiation but I'm sure Kaiser's vert could tell you.
Give the handsome senior lots of hugs and spoil him rotten. Hope he comes home today.


----------



## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

Chris, I am so sorry you and Tim are going through this- just caught this thread and I'm glad Kaiser is doing well. 
I hope the chemo is easy on him and gives him a lot more comfortable time with you.








Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
For what it's worth, I would have readily made the same choice you did.


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

How is Kaiser doing today? Was he able to go home or does he have to stay in the hospital another day?


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Griffie is sending special kisses and hugs to Uncle Kaiser, and will even let him have his pink rope toy if it makes him feel better!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Yes, he was able to come home today. He's managing to get around amazingly well, though he's spent most of the day resting. His spirits and appetite aren't the best and it's obvious he's very uncomfortable even though we're giving him his pain killers as often as allowed. So hoping this won't last long and he'll be feeling better soon. It's still a shock every time I look at him... don't know what I was expecting but not this... a half shaved dog with a 14" incision stapled together. A big part of me is asking how could we put him through this.







So hopefully all the stories I've been told from others of it being well worth it in the end will hold true. Either way, he's very happy to be home, and we're very happy to have him back.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I'm glad to hear he is safe with his family, the best place!
I bet the pain med has his appetite and spirit in a fog. 
Sending healing thoughts for Kaiser.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I am sure it is a huge shock. Heck, it shocked me to see Mariele's chicken thigh for her knee surgery-so this must be a big adjustment mentally. 

I will say, Bella had a small alien removed from her face, a tiny cyst taken off her leg, and hips x-rayed on Thursday and today was the first day she wanted to go out with the others and is still kind of tired out-she asked to go in even. Just to give you something small to compare with his big surgery in terms of bounce back. 

I am sure by Thursday he will be perky!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Glad to hear he's home!
I wonder if dogs are like people and it takes time for the anesthesia (sp) to wear off - expecting him to feel more himself in the next couple of days.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

All in all, it sounds pretty good considering he just had such major, invasive surgery. Poor Kaiser being half shaved. And GSD fur doesn't grow back all that fast . . . he will look pretty weird for a while yet. 

Thank you for the update, and lots of good, caring thoughts to you and Tim also.


----------



## Northern GSDs (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks so much for taking the time to post an update - I've been thinking about how things have been going for you all.

I do know a few tripod dogs (all large breed) and once things heal up and the surgical site pain decreases, they usually do exceptionally well. I know right now it's very hard to watch him . Does he have a transdermal analgesic patch on or is he only on the oral meds for pain? If he seems to you to still be having a fair bit of pain, you might want to check into whether a pain patch might be an option for him. 

I'll be keeping you all in my thoughts and here's to hoping things heal up quickly!


----------



## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild A big part of me is asking how could we put him through this.


Because you knew it was the best option, and offered him the best chance for a comfortable life.

It was much easier making the decision to undergo surgery for myself for the splenic artery aneurysm than it was a much more minor surgery for my son, to correct his eye muscles. Maybe this is like that. The responsibility for decisions made on behalf of one you love is overwhelming at times, and far more difficult than those decisions made for yourself.
But you did right. In spite of what you see now, you absolutely did right. You gave him the chance to be comfortable for the rest of his life. How could that be a wrong decision?
Both my son and I are better off because of the decisions I made, but it got harder before it got better. Hang in there.


----------



## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

> Quote: The responsibility for decisions made on behalf of one you love is overwhelming at times, and far more difficult than those decisions made for yourself.


I completely agree with this! 

And I sympathize with the reaction to his new appearance. I had the same reaction to Kira. She stayed hospitalized for several days so I think I missed some of the pain and anesthesia after effects. She did come home with a fentanyl (sp?) patch which seemed to help. Initially looking at her was very horrifying - "what did I do? I maimed my dog!" but it was quickly clear that she actually felt SO much better than she had previously with that awful tumor in her leg. And it didn't take us too long to get used to her new look and for her hair to grow back. It really DOES get better. Hang in there!


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

Niki was on injectable morphine for the first 36 hours or so after his amputation. Then he had oral pain meds for a few more days. He was off all pain meds before his stitches were removed - 10 to 14 days if I recall. It was all I could do to keep him quiet 48 hours after his surgery - all the boy wanted to do was play ball.


----------



## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

I hope it turns out better for you than it did for me.I will never do that again and i still suffer great emotional pain from all that. sending prayers your way!


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

Well it's been a couple days now- how's Kaiser?


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

I agree. Chris have you got the time to give us an update? Pretty please!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Quick update... I'm supposed to be whelping pups at the moment, but Raven has decided to put a hold on things....

Overall he's doing well. He's still being pretty sedate compared to normal but we're seeing a bit more activity every day. I've had several folks say their dogs were running around like puppies within a day or two after the surgery and was really hoping for that though it was probably silly to do so. But he is getting a bit more active every day. Of course sedation is a side effect of the pain meds he's on, so hard to say if he's lacking energy because he doesn't feel well, the drugs, body is too busy healing, or a combo. Plus he is almost 11 so I imagine progress will be a bit slower than in a younger dog. 

His appetite is back to fully normal which is really good news since he's looking rather thin having not wanted to eat the first couple days. A bit of a downside to him being a fit and trim, not chubby, senior is he didn't have much weight to lose. He's getting around a bit better each day. 

Last night he finally figured out how to get on and off the couch tripod style without help from mom or dad, and was quite pleased with himself over that. And today he shocked us both by making it up and down the stairs to the second floor. His favorite afternoon snooze spot has always been the bed, but we figured his days of going up and down stairs unassisted were over. But somehow he did it. Going to try to put a stop to that for a while though, at least until his incision has healed as we don't want to risk him getting hurt or opening the incision should he lose his balance and fall. Though he did a great job of leaning on the wall for support as he came down.

He started running a fever Sunday afternoon, so yesterday we took him to the vet to get checked out. They ran a CBC and it came back normal. The incision looks great. So other than the fever there's no sign of infection, which has them thinking the fever isn't due to infection. They said a fever after this major of a surgery isn't unusual as the body is heating itself up just from working overtime to heal, plus it's taking more exertion on his part to do anything since he's still adjusting to getting around on 3 legs and that can add to a higher temperature as well. They don't want to put him on antibiotics and flood his system with even more drugs than necessary. So we're just going to monitor it for now. Temp was actually a bit lower this morning. Still technically a mild fever, but looks like no real worries.

And he has his short bursts of wanna play energy a few times a day. So definitely making progress.


----------



## sleachy (Aug 10, 2001)

Wow! I am so happy to hear how your boy is bouncing back. I hope he continues to mend quickly!


----------



## jake (Sep 11, 2004)

If he is eating and moving and has some sense of being happy within himself -count that as golden days!A day just sniffing the air while lying in the sun is enough for a dog to be content.


----------



## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Chris, I am glad he is taking his time and not overdoing it. He is a wise man for taking his time. In the mean time, you and Tim are moving your bed to the living room each after noon for him to take his nap, right! 









Best wishes for continued positive updates on Kaiser (and Ravens litter).


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

So glad to hear that Kaiser is doing better. I really think puppies will help. LOL.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: Chris WildLast night he finally figured out how to get on and off the couch tripod style without help from mom or dad, and was quite pleased with himself over that. And today he shocked us both by making it up and down the stairs to the second floor. His favorite afternoon snooze spot has always been the bed, but we figured his days of going up and down stairs unassisted were over. But somehow he did it.


This put a big








on my face.

Hope all continues to improve and I hope the whelp goes very smoothly


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

Sounds like recovery is going well for him.







Thanks for the update.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

checking in....I'm so glad how well things have been going


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

It so good to hear how well he's doing! Hugs from the jags family!


----------



## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Chris, it sounds like he's doing fantastic. I suspect he's smart enough to know when to conserve his energy & take the time to properly heal. Some animals seem as clueless about this as toddlers & others are just naturally wiser. Gotta admit I'm weak for a smart dog. I just love the thinkers.

Years ago I read that even extremely skinny people fared better while starving than overweight or obese people. It was counter intuitive (to me at least), but I remember it to this day b/c I <blush>lost a huge (& kinda stupid) argument having vehemently insisted on the latter. Sooo, it probably doesn't matter that he 'didn't have it to lose'. It's far more important that he's strong, fit & healthy apart from the osteo.


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

What great news to hear that Kaiser is adjusting so well to being a tripod!


----------



## Fluffypants (Aug 31, 2003)

So glad to hear Kaiser is doing well... I'm sure with every day you will see improving and adjusting. I have no experience with tripods, but have heard they are just remarkable as far adjusting. Wishing you both well! 

Tanja


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

Thanks for the update and I am so glad to hear that it is positive! Puppies plus Kaiser equals a very full plate so take care of yourself and hang in there.


----------



## csaiz (Dec 21, 2006)

Glad he is doing good









We will keep you all in out thoughts and prayers for a bit longer


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Chris, I'm glad to hear the good news about Kaiser. I hope he continues to make such good improvement and is back to his old self in no time.


----------



## jesmagmisty (Jul 13, 2001)

Chris, just checking in to see how Kaiser is doing. I think about him daily and hope and pray you get many more years with him.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Thank you *so much* everyone for the constant support, thoughts and prayers. It seems this may have suddently turned into a nightmare, and I am upset beyond words at the moment.

First the Kaiser update:
He's doing ok. Much more energetic since he got off his meds on Friday, so I do think the "sedation is a possible side effect" was influencing him being pretty quiet and mopey. Takes him a while to get moving well after he's been sleeping for a while. He's stiff and uncoordinated and a bit wobbly at first, but once he gets up and moving around he does fine. And he's much more happy in general, wanting to play, run the fence and bark at the horses (a favorite hobby of his), and of course go see "his" puppies. So all in all he's doing pretty well.

But I am angry beyond all imagining...... He was scheduled for his first chemo appointment at MSU today. I called this morning to make sure the pathology report was back, as they said they'd need that to confirm the type of cancer so they knew exactly what chemo protocol to follow. When I called, they told me the pathology report had just come back today and it's findings were "no cancer, just advanced degenerative joint disease". 

WHAT?!?!?!? Did I just chop my dog's leg off for nothing!?!?!?

Needless to say I immediately told the receptionist I needed to talk with someone else and got connected with the oncology surgeon who did his original consult and performed the amputation. She confirmed the pathology report said no cancer. She tried to spin it as good news (which sure, in a way it is) as it means he won't need $4000 worth of chemo and doesn't have the "even with chemo 8-12 months is the most he'll have" death sentance hanging over his head.

But what about the fact that we just amputated his leg??? And how did one very experienced vet, and TWO DIFFERENT oncology clinics misdiagnose this? When we went in for the consult she did say that we couldn't be sure of cancer without a biopsy and pathology report, but since osteosarcoma moves so quickly and with no treatment he could be dead in 2-4 months, time was of the essence. So she didn't want to do an expensive and painful biopsy, wait 2 weeks for the results to come back, and then schedule the amputation. She felt it was obvious on the x-rays and our description of his symptoms and onset were textbook osteosarcoma. So she wanted to schedule the amputation and if when she got him opened up it and could see the bone, if it seemed cancer was questionable she would just take some bone for a biopsy, sew him back up and not move forward with the amputation. We assumed that since she DID amputate his leg that upon seeing the bone the cancer was apparent. But now pathology is saying no cancer. 

When I asked her what she saw in surgery and if it looked like cancer on the bone, and could pathology maybe have made a mistake, she sort of dodged around that question and went on to say again that no cancer was good news and amputation would have been a solid course of action just for DJD since with the amount of pain he was in and his unwillingness to use that leg, to the point of quite a bit of muscle atrophy in that leg, removing the painful limb was a good option.

Um... NO! There are a TON of arthritis treatments we hadn't tried yet. Our original assumption was that it was arthritis in the first place, and we'd started pursuing additional things to help... like the acupuncture appointment that started this whole thing with a cancer diagnosis in the first place... If not for being told it was cancer, amputation would have been the last resort of things to try, not the first. We'd have done a whole lot of other things before chopping off his leg! Not to mention for what we're paying for cancer treatment that's now not needed, we probably could have had an orthopedic surgeon give him a whole new shoulder. 

I demanded that the pathologist check again and we are going to be sending them the original leg x-rays where the cancer was (supposedly to several vets) obvious to make sure they cut and tested the right part of the bone. If the second report comes back no cancer too, I don't know what we'll do. Though chatting with my lawyer friend will probably be on the list. My biggest worry is that if it's DJD, and we went to that extreme a measure to remove the pain from that, we've got an 11yo dog with only 3 limbs left, and if he had DJD bad enough in that leg how long is the rest of his body going to hold up before some other leg gets just as bad and now we have NO options. Probably not as long as that 8-12 months we expected for cancer! 

If the second report comes back that it is cancer and the first report was wrong, then we're back on the original plan though MSU is in some severely hot water. Especially since that will delay starting chemo by another 2 weeks, and in a case where "dog will be dead in 2-4 months without chemo, even after amputation" another 2 weeks to wait on top of the 2 weeks we've already waited for the first pathology report to come back is a very concerning waste of time.

How can this happen? Two different oncology clinics told us this is what it is, and this is what to do, and we trusted them and thought we were doing the best thing for Kaiser. And now they may be wrong? There is no way to undo what they've done!


----------



## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Oh Chris, what a nightmare! I completely understand your anger. Poor Kaiser. It's not even my dog and I'm angry.

~Kristin


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

oh Chris. I am so sorry this is happening to Kaiser, you and Tim. I don't even know what to say.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Chris,

I am so sorry. My mouth is just hanging open. You did everything right--getting multiple opinions, going with the experts, etc. 

I can't even imagine how upset I would be right now. 

Hang in there...


----------



## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

OMG Chris, I would be mad and upset beyond words. I too don't know what to say. Lots of unanswered questions that's for sure. I'm so sorry about all of this. Unbelievable really. Hugs.


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

What the fiddle. I can understand your anger. I guess I can't understand how this could have been misdiagnosed and I am sure that has you very very upset.

Just because one joint has DJD, it doesn't mean that the rest of the joints will be following suit. My male has had two Grade II DJD elbows since a very young age, but the hips are decent and OFA'ed at Fair. This shoulder problem could have been the result of an injury you weren't even aware of, tough dogs hide their pain. I think as they get older things that didn't hurt as much when they were younger are just more painful.

Would this have been my first choice of treatment for DJD, no, but is it a total mistake, maybe - maybe not. If it was that painful, it is possible that the other options may not have helped him as much as you would have hoped. You got your second opinions and went with that information. 

Val


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

I can't believe that! I am so sorry and angry for you. I hope you get some quick answers so you know how to proceed. That just sucks!


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*








{{{{{{{{{{{ Chris & Kaiser }}}}}}}}}}









First let me say I'm glad Kaiser is still doing well adjusting to being a tripod - sending him lots of cyberhugs!

What a nightmare, it's like your worst dream came true. I mean, I'm glad he doesn't have the death sentence of osteosarcoma hanging over his head, but to amputate the limb of an 11 year old boy only to find out he had DJD, it's just unfathomable that this type of mistake could happen! I'm in shock.


----------



## Fluffypants (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

I can't even imagine this.... I know Dr's can make mistakes, but we trust them and with a few different specialists making the same diagnosis. I'm happy that Kaiser is doing well, but so bothered that this kind of mistake was made. 

I'm glad you have your boy and he doesn't have osteosarcoma... bless both of you for all the stress in getting this kind of diagnosis. 

Tanja


----------



## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Unbelievable... I can't even imagine how upset and furious you must be. To have this mistake made by several specialists is beyond wrong -- and very frightening.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

I'm finding it hard to believe they could make this sort of mistake either. We are definitely demanding another pathology report. Not that we hope it really is osteosarcoma, but I just can't imagine how that many specialists could look at those x-rays, they could do the surgery, and come up with DJD? I think it more likely the pathology report was wrong. But we'll have to wait quite a while to find out.


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*








WHAT? Dang, that one really shocked me. I could see if it was just one vet. I'd be ....... I don't even know what to say Chris.







to you and the old guy.


----------



## Strana1 (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*















to Kaiser. I can't imagine the anger you are feeling right now. I think thevet should have the re-test made a priority so you don't lose any more time.


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Holy Cow!!! Wow, just don't know what to say other than I am glad for you and Kaiser that he is recovering.

A vet clinic I worked for once fixed a broken bone.... on the wrong leg.


----------



## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*



> Originally Posted By: gagsd_pup1Holy Cow!!! Wow, just don't know what to say other than I am glad for you and Kaiser that he is recovering.
> 
> A vet clinic I worked for once fixed a broken bone.... on the wrong leg.


WHAT? Are you JOKING?
I would be FURIOUS!!!!!!!


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

I am shocked. In light of this I would demand to talk to the pathology lab and demand immediate reevaluation because of the time constraints. If they refuse, I would have a lawyer talk to them about malpractice issues. There cases can be reported to the veterinary board as well. 

I think osteosarcoma is relatively easy to diagnose based on x-ray.

I have had some bad experiences with vets myself and they can be quite lax as their liability is much different than human doctors. My human doctor friend says they are the only profession where they can kill their patient after a mistake and then even feel good about it.


----------



## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

ALL I CAN SAY IS OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM SO SORRY!


----------



## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Chris and Tim,

My heart dropped when I read this. Thoughts are with you.


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Holy
















x 1,000,000,000.50


----------



## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDI think osteosarcoma is relatively easy to diagnose based on x-ray.


Not always.... my vet, and a 2nd vet in the same practice, proposed to amputate my dog Kenju's leg as they diagnosed him with osteosarcoma. 
I asked to have it sent to a radiologist for confirmation, and the radiologist said it was just a bone defect from an old injury. So we came pretty close to a 3-legged dog with no cancer as well.


----------



## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Very disturbing, that's for sure. Unfortunately, Vets can be wrong and over the years I have witnessed them being wrong more times than I would like to recall. I also knew someone with a dog diagnosed with cancer via x-ray. They did not treat it and the dog lived three more years and did not die of cancer. 
As for legal action, dogs are chattel and normally, the awards in those cases are quite small. I would still ask your attorney though. 

I am very sorry for what you are going through Chris, that is simply awful.


----------



## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

OMG Chris, I am so sorry.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*



> Originally Posted By: Barb E.Holy


What she said. How horrifying, I'm so sorry. There's really no "good" news here is there? Either he does have cancer, which is bad, or he doesn't have cancer, in which case he had a completely unnecessary amputation, which is REALLY bad.


----------



## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowChris,
> 
> I am so sorry. My mouth is just hanging open. You did everything right--getting multiple opinions, going with the experts, etc.
> 
> ...


I agree on all counts! I could not imagine if this had happened to Chimo (about Kaisers age). I would be absolutely LIVID!


----------



## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Chris and Tim, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. The news is just so horrible that I don't even know how the vet could spin it as a good one. Maybe, for her it's good because she makes money anyway and that's disgusting. 

So far the only vet place I have heard only the best experiences with curing cases deemed hopeless by other vets, and the place I have used myself (for Yana's surgery, her reg. vet wanted to amputate her leg as well) is WSU teaching vet hosp. in Pullman, WA. I know that people come there from all over the States, and I thought that it's something you may look into for another opinion. 

I'm just trying to suggest something to redirect your thoughts and efforts because I know how mad and still from anger you are inside. I am all frozen after just reading this...


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Thanks, everyone. This is just a nightmare.

Not the first occasion we've run into with vets screwing up, but we knew that going in so we really tried to make sure we covered all bases before making any decisions. I just can't imagine it's anything but a lab screw up. 

The first x-ray was done by a very reputable place. We thought it was arthritis and took him in for acupuncture, vet said she wasn't sure it was arthritis because it felt different and the bone was inflamed, so she did an x-ray of both front legs to be able to compare. She felt quite confident it was osteosarcoma. We then went to TWO different oncology specialists, who looked at the x-ray and confirmed that. And from what I've read on line it sounds like osteosarcoma is typically very easy to diagnose by x-ray. Plus even we were able to see what they were pointing at when they compared the x-ray of his right leg (no problems) to his left. The end of the humerus on his left looked weird. Not that we'd have known what we were looking at, but even our uneducated eyes said there was something different and it did NOT look like arthritis. I do know what arthritis looks like, and most of all it doesn't make a bone look like swiss cheese.

I couldn't imagine putting him in better hands than Michigan State University's vet teaching hospital, so that's where we went for surgery and follow up. And now they're saying that was all wrong and he's got DJD?

They are going to run another histopathology report. They say they need a copy of that original x-ray of the bone that everyone used to diagnose it before they can proceed, so they can make sure the lab tests the correct part of the bone. Which to me seems asanine. Anyone who doesn't know what "proximal end of humerus" means when told to biopsy something shouldn't be working in there. But whatever. We have that x-ray and can't find any of the vets around here who can make a copy of the x-ray. On our lawyer's advice we are not letting MSU have the original, and even if we could get a copy made wouldn't want to waste more time mailing it to them. So Tim is headed to Lansing right now, x-ray in hand, to make them make a copy of it and get on running the second histopathology report pronto. 

Mood he's in, I wouldn't be surprised if he demanded to walk someone over to the pathology lab and stand there and watch them do it *right now*. I would if I were the one going.









We inquired about doing a chemo treatment just in case. Figure if it ends up unnecessary one treatment won't hurt him, and not wanting to waste time if the second report comes back as cancer since if it is osteosarcoma just a week or two can make all the difference in whether it spreads to other organs and kills him in a couple months, or if we can buy him a year or so. But it turns out, not surprisingly I guess, that none of the cancer treatment places will do it without a definitive diagnosis from histopathology, so that isn't an option. 


I just really can't imagine all those people looking at an x-ray, two of them oncologists, saying it's osteosarcoma and it not being osteosarcoma. I'm more inclined to think the histopathology report was wrong and the new one will show it is indeed osteosarcoma. In which case we did the right thing. Even if it's not osteosarcoma, I know we can't beat ourselves up over it since we did what we thought was best given the information we had, and it's not like we jumped to a conclusion without a lot of research and expert opinions. But that won't help Kaiser live easier on 3 legs.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Kaiser is in the best hands, he is lucky to have you in his corner. I wouldn't want to be in Tims path today!


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

It's hard to even look at the monitor after reading all this.

Chris and Tim are so sound in their judgments, even now with even more uncertainty and anger about Kaiser. 

I can't find the silver lining here and I don't know which illness can be treated better in the long run.

You all have my most sincere concern.

Mary Jane


----------



## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

You might want to have them run a PCR test. They have to send the cells to Colorado State University where they grow the cells to see what they are. When Rainer was tested for Lymphoma the first result from the aspirit was inconclusive, the second was highly suspect for lymphoma, but could have also been from one of 3 tick diseases. We sent it to CSU for the PCR and the growth was B cell lymphoma - 100% sure!

You also may have caught it very early - our Saint Bernard had it in her upper leg - original diagnosed as a shoulder problem, it was quite a while before the tumor "blew up" (this was in the early 80's). She had leg pain and had quit using the lg long before the tumor was actually visable.

Sorry you have to go through this! Good luck.


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Whoa Chris, what a shocker! Know we all are here for you regardless of the outcome.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

I think you need to wait two weeks after surgery to start chemotherapy, at least that is what they told us with BoBo.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Oh Chris! I'm just sick to my stomach reading all this!!! 

How in the world could all this happen? I am so, so, so sorry! 

Being angry and Livid probably does not even come close to describe how you guys are feeling right now!!! 

A thousand hugs and prayer going your way!


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*































What a terrible thing to have to deal with. 

It sounds like, whatever the cause, the leg had a bone that looked like swiss cheese, was inflamed, swollen. The perfect set-up that would invite cancer, if it wasn't already there. If this isn't cancer, you may have just saved his life, from having cancer develop. I dunno, just trying to think out loud here, trying to make sense of things.

That doesn't excuse any mistakes that might have been made. Our vet has a radiologist that I have no confidence in, but you had more than a couple of folks look at those xrays! I'm so so sorry that everything is so ambiguous right now, what a roller coaster! 

I am glad that Kaiser is doing well!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Well, MSU now has copies of the x-ray so they can move forward. What they *think* happened is that the wrong part of the bone was tested. The lesions are apparently small and sporadic, it's not the entire end of the humerus that's affected yet, and therefore possible the histopathology lab tested the wrong part. So they're going to retest, this time with an oncologist looking over their shoulder to make sure they test the exact correct spot on the bone.

But it'll still be a few days before we have results back. Apparently there's a whole decalcification of bone process and other rigamarole that takes time and can't be rushed. 

I certainly wouldn't complain if it is NOT cancer. Would love to know he's got more than just a few months, maybe a year at the outside. And the bank account sure wouldn't mind not having to do chemo. But I'm sure it is. Everyone is sure it is. Just need to get the official lab report to tell us what we are pretty sure we already know so we can move forward with chemo and stop wasting valuable time.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Max's dew claw had to go through that decalcification process when we had it tested for cancer. It took *forever* -- hope yours moves quicker.

Cancer sucks


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

Chris - I just went and talked to my friend whose dog Bear had Osteo and this is how it went for them.

The xray showed what everyone felt pretty sure was Osteo. 
A bone biopsy was done (5 plugs) that were sent to Colorado for testing. 

The results came back negative for Osteo. 

A month went by and Bear was still limping so a MRI was done and a fine needle aspiration was done and was positive for Osteo.

On the MRI they could see the spots where the bone "plugs" had been taken from and each had missed the lesion by a hair.

It seems to me that it should be easier to get to the right spot on the bone, but I guess it isn't.

I continue to keep the thoughts coming your way!


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSD...
> I think osteosarcoma is relatively easy to diagnose based on x-ray.
> ...


With Niki my vet strongly felt it was osteosarcoma based on his x-rays, but it took two biopsies and an evaluation by the radiologist at the U of FL to confirm it.


----------



## JenM66 (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

OMG Chris!! I cannot believe this..... I hope Kai recovers quickly and is back to his ol' self, minus a leg, and that you have many wonderful years remaining with him.

And, I'd be looking for not only someone's job but their head if this was indeed a misdiagnosis.


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser Update and RANT*

There are just no words, Chris. My mouth was agape reading about the whole thing. I just hope everything works out for you guys. Will continue to think of you guys and hope for the best.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

After a bit of fit throwing and calling them on all their ball dropping, MSU is treating us like royalty now. They rushed the second histopathology report, making SURE they got the right spot of the bone to test, and the results are back. I just got a call with the details.

The did find the cancer this time around with the testing. But, we have good news. It is NOT Osteosarcoma. It is Myxosarcoma. This was explained to me as a very localized form of cancer which, unlike Osteo, is highly unlikely to spread anywhere else.

They are recommending no chemo, as it should not be necessary as the amputation removed all of the areas affected by the cancer. And instead put him on "tumor watch" doing chest x-rays and ultrasounds every few months to make sure he's not a rare case where it will spread, but it's highly unlikely.

Not had a chance to google myxosarcoma yet to see what I find and if I agree with this sort of plan moving forward, but at this point it sure sounds like good news. The amputation wasn't a mistake and the cancer should be gone.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

http://petcancercenter.org/Cancer_Types_soft_tissue_myxosarcoma.html

http://www.oncolink.org/experts/article.cfm?c=3&s=32&ss=86&id=1279

?? Is that it?

WOW!!! 

So we all saw lose-lose, but somehow there was a win!

Right?


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Oh Chris! That's wonderful news!


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Wow! What a relief! Congratulations!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANWOW!!!
> 
> So we all saw lose-lose, but somehow there was a win!
> 
> Right?


Excellent news, and I agree with Jean - it certainly does sound like a win situation!


----------



## Strana1 (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

AWESOME news!!!!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

























Primary Joint Tumors
Synovial cell sarcomas develop from the cells in joints, bursae and tendon sheaths. There are two types of synovial cell sarcomas: epithelioid and spindle. Other types of joint tumors include histiocytic sarcoma and malignant fibrous histiocytoma, synovial myxoma and myxosarcoma, OSA, FSA, CSA, HSA, liposarcoma, rhabdomyosarcoma, and undifferentiated sarcoma.

Typically, dogs will present with lameness, pain or swelling around the joint. Biopsy is required for a specific diagnosis. Joint fluid will only rarely show cancer cells. Amputation is the recommended treatment. There is no proven effect of either radiation or chemotherapy, although some studies suggest that doxorubicin-based chemotherapy protocols should be considered.
http://www.bonecancerdogs.org/main/document/64


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 3, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*



> Originally Posted By: Chris Wild The amputation wasn't a mistake and the cancer should be gone.


Huge sigh of relief heard throughout cyberspace.


----------



## LuvWorkingGSDs (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Woohoo!







Great news.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Oh Chris!! I am so HAPPY to hear this!!


----------



## Lynn_P (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

That's GREAT news Chris!! I'm sure you & Tim can relax a bit now. Hugs to Kaiser.


----------



## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Wonderful news!


----------



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

What a relief! After the long ordeal, I am glad you finally got some good news.


----------



## Vinnie (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*



> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANWOW!!!
> ...










yep, yep - I agree - great news!!!!


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Wow, stunning. Absolutely great and fanastic news.

I think that's the type of cancer that someone once said might be associated with the lyme vaccine, per the doc at the university this person went to, and can generally be associated with vaccination. I guess it doesn't have to be either.
http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/39/1/33

I would consider putting him on a good mushroom mix, or something like IP6 for a little bit, just in case??? Since the area was disturbed by surgery? Of course, with taking the leg, they probably got very wide margins and didn't disturb the actual site too much, if at all?

I am so so so relieved and happy for you!


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Yes, very good news. About as much of a win-win as is possible all things considered.

Interesting on the lyme vac. Kaiser has never had one, so it wouldn't be related in his case though.

Lisa, can you expound on the "mushroom mix". Not familiar with this, though I'm guessing it's not the happy type of mushroom.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

TCM uses mushrooms. Here is a supplement with mushrooms that I've given my dogs before: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Immune-Strengthener/999032.aspx


----------



## GSDLoverII (May 12, 2004)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*



> Originally Posted By: MaryJane
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Chris Wild The amputation wasn't a mistake and the cancer should be gone.
> ...


Ya, what she said!!


----------



## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Great news Chris! Hopefully, all will be well. I will be keeping you guys in my thoughts!


----------



## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

That is great news. 

Val


----------



## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

I'm so happy to hear that Kaiser's cancer isn't as serious as the osteosarcoma and all he'll need are x-rays for follow up.


----------



## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Wow. What a relief. I am SO glad everything worked out in the end. Give Kaiser some hugs from me.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

Chris, 

Mushrooms have documented anti-tumor action. 

There are a bunch of good products out there, like the one that CM posted. The folks with other cancer dogs may have other products. This is the product I ised after Indy's mast cell tumor, removal - her vet put her on it for awhile:
http://www.wellvet.com/powermushrooms.html


----------



## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: Osteosarcoma - Kaiser ANOTHER UPDATE*

That good news. Hopefully you can breathe a sigh of relief now.


----------

