# SchH 1-No Stick Hits?



## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Anyone else hear this or know a judge who can confirm if this is true?


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I will ask Gabor to call Gyapi and ask. Just saw that on the USA list.

No posting on the USA site?


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## hudak004 (Aug 3, 2006)

Whaaat? Come on! I sure hope not. Ya know, I kind of understood taking the gunshot out of the BH, for, it really is just a BH, and several breeds can participate, someone told me that in Germany your dog license (any breed) is reduced $ if you have a B on your dog... so that makes sense, not all mixed breeds have the best of nerves, but the SchH1!!?!? This IS a breed test still isn't it?? How many breeding dogs get anything more than ScHh1? I know, there ARE several, but there are several that DONT either! This would be terrible!! What could POSSIBBLY be the rationale for this? I hope it's just a rumour of some sort.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I sure hope this is not true.


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## KJenkins (Aug 29, 2005)

Nathaniel Roque DOJ for USA just clarified there will be no changes to the current rules for 2010. 2011 may bring changes but nothing specified as of yet.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I am still checking, as Gabor competes in Europe this spring and need to know if it is being implemented there.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

This was discussed, but there was no change.


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

Any ideas about what was discussed for 2011?


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I will ask tonight. It was all in Hungarian....


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## luvsables (May 7, 2007)

If they take out the stick hits in the SchH1 god only knows what else they will take out. I may have to find another sport if they do take out the stick hits in SchH1.


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## Bullet (Dec 14, 2000)

Hi guys,

I was at the 2009 FCI judges meeting at the DVG HQ, in Hemer, where we discussed the coming rule changes to an extent.

Where the confussion might be happening is that we, as judges will no longer to use the term 'stick hit' . We are to use 'pressure test' It's like calling a 'bite' a 'grip'. This is being implimented right now, and when I originally reported this on our AWDF conference call, there were actually people that thought the same thing, that the stick hits were being removed. 

The stick hit thing, along with a better clarification of the rules will be the biggest changes in this next rule update. So look for a few more PC ways of saying things once we get the updated rules.

The other big verbage thing that was discussed, is that SchH, & VPG will officially go away. Everyone will have the same rulebook, and we will all call our sport IPO. 

Al Govednik


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Thank you, Al, for the clarification.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I have to say that I'm glad IPO and SchH becomes the same, those slight rule changes were more confusing for us the handlers than for the dogs.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes and its nice to know that schutzhund is going away...maybe it will be better if they call it something else


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

They already did that with the VPG change... For me, that can trail once or twice at most every year it's nice not to worry if the trial will be held by the GSD club or the Kennel Club.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

So sad the pressures that have come to bear in society.

We do an activity (schutzhund, VPG,IPO) on a grassy expanse (field) with a canid mammal (dog) which grips (bites) and is tested (stick hits). 

We take our dog on a trip to the park where it takes a little test. That is my story and I am attaching (sticking) to it!


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

Yeah, pretty soon it will be "dog? What dog?" He doesn't bite the decoy/"bad guy" but grips it? BS euphemisms. Where is a good dog to go to get tested? Is this from pressure of the non-working end of the SV? Bahhh. How about RSV2000.....


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

I thought you can't say "packen" anymore. How come "grip" is okay then?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: Jason LinI thought you can't say "packen" anymore. How come "grip" is okay then?


We can't say packen anymore because we can't tell our dogs to bite or attack like we used to, even though they're performing the same exercise. That was actually an official rule change a few years ago. Somehow it's better and safer and more PC if you tell your dog "go" or "free" or "peanuts" and he runs downfield to bite the helper, than if you tell him to do just that.









In recent years "grip" has replaced bite in the lingo, lest someone be offended or frightened by such a nasty, scary word as "bite". 

Who knows what PC verbage they'll come up with next...


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Maybe we should just all train our dogs with the word "cuddle"...


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

But doesn't Packen just mean "grab" in German? Maybe they should just have the dogs simulate the act of biting from now on ...

Ike will be trained to attack on the command "potato".


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

What do the letters IPO stand for again? I'm Politically Obnoxious?

Jokes aside, what does it mean again?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

IPO = Internationale Prüfungsordnung

???


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

or.... "Ike, Potato...OUT"


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## DorianGrayFFM (Apr 24, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Jason LinBut doesn't Packen just mean "grab" in German?


On the offbeat chance that you're not asking a rhetorical question, you are correct.


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Not entirely rhetorical. Thought maybe there might be a more colloquial meaning to the word that has a more "violent" undertone to it.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I was wondering if it was because it was traditionally used and people came to associate it with "bite". If that is the case, we will need to change the word every so often, because folks is gonna figure out the new word means "bite" before too long....


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have always been tempted to use "Kisses".


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I always did wonder if there was a idomatic meaning that was more violent. Or why the traditional command wasn't "bissen", since that does mean bite. I do remember being specifically told we could not say "packen" when the rule change happend. It was on the new banned word list.

Maybe I'll train my next dog in Klingon or Elvish or some other made up langauge and see how that goes. Can I get in trouble if they don't know what any of the words mean?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I wonder that too, Chris. I saw someone who the judge didn't seem too happy with for using traditional english commands. I don't know if it is written any where...."the command shall be this, and this shall be the command..."


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh really? People pay attention to what language you use in trial?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Actually, there was talk of a rule change out of Germany a few years ago about requiring that all commands be in the same language (you couldn't mix German and English in a trial) AND faulting handlers for improper pronunciation.

Needless to say it didn't fly, but it's scary to even think about an SV judge taking points because you didn't have flawless German, or you used some English commands. 

It's not written anywhere (yet) what the commands must be, but after that I wouldn't be surprised if one day it is.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I've known people to train in English, French and one guy who used Japanese with one dog and actually did use Klingon with another, and like Carla also saw them get dirty looks from judges for the commands they used. But no points off. So long as it's consistent (same word is always used for sit, same for heel, etc...) it's not against the rules.

Yet......

If they want to get obsessed over language, how about focusing on the critiques (sure would have been nice to be able to understand them at the WUSV in KY) rather than the commands.


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

I think it is a rule that you have to use the same language throughout the routine..

I only say that because last time I trialed Chaos under USA the judge did make a comment during our critique, because I use "stand" instead of "steh". He told me the language has to be consistent can't mix german and english..


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

This people have too much free time, I think.

I'll train my next dog in Mapudungun


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

> Originally Posted By: G-burg He told me the language has to be consistent can't mix german and english..


I never understood what this has to do with evaluating dogs and SchH.


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## SchHGSD (Dec 20, 2001)

Yep I lost points once for that also- English stand command and German everything else. 

However, at a Regional trial, same words, I did not. I'm not changing my stand command.


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## Bullet (Dec 14, 2000)

I believe the attempt to have the handler use the same language/command comes not from obedience, but is more geared toward the protection side of things. There are exercizes where a handler will be dismissed if he/she trys to keep the dog on the field or next to the helper. It's hard for the judge to know all the normal language combinations for our sport. I have judged large trials where dogs have come from 10 or more countries, and it makes things that much harder when multiple languages are used. I mean the idea is to reward the top handler/dog ie team performance, rather than the slickest handler move.

For example if I was to encourage my dog to continue to guard after an out, I would certainly loose points, but could continue. On the other hand if I gave some kind of a command to keep the dog next to or with the helper (like Platz) then that would be reason for dismissal. 

We're not talking championship level stuff here either in most cases. The dogs we're looking at would be those that needed help to pass trials, and potentially those animals that get a quick title and sold. Then this becomes another topic for the discussion.

Al Govednik


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Same language thorough the routine.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

It is sad to see what "IPO" is becoming... Wait, so I can't say schutzhund anymore?? ugh


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