# What type of line would be appropriate for me?



## DoggieDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

Hi all, I've been looking into breeders for GSD for a little while now and I just wanted some opinions on what line/drive dog would be best suited for me.

I'm a veterinary student, and yes I do have the time (this is the question that I am constantly asked, but many of my fellow classmates have young dogs/puppies and I after some thought I do feel that with the right timing such as getting the pup over the summer when I am off from school and other factors that I do have the time). I'm looking primarily for a companion animal and may one day go into schutzhund. I also jog daily and have a ton of friends to take the puppy out on doggie playdates with. Any suggestions on what lines? Good breeders of those lines? Thanks all!


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

A good German showline might do you nicely! A working line might be a bit too much but a German showline that has been bred for ability and the breeder works their dogs and trains/titles their own dogs would be perfect. Just make sure you really DO have the time, not just now but in the future. Can you say that you'll have the same time two months from now, a year from now, five years from now? If you rent, it'll be more difficult, and I know you've heard it a million times before but don't just do it because your classmates can. How do you know that they also have thought it through and will have time months from now?

Good luck! Make sure to ask about any prospective breeders on here as we have a great network of owners and breeders.


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## GSDOwner2008 (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, when you mentioned Schutzhund, I thought workinglines because that's what they are bred for, sports, such as shutzhund. But you also want a companion, and you might do schutzund. Some workinglines may be a bit too drivey for just a companion. Have you had any experience with this breed?

It is in my opinion that you can find what you are looking for in a West German showline. They are great companion dogs, and also are able to compete in schutzhund. My boys are West German showlines and their father is a Schutzund 3. If you go West German showline, make sure the parents are titled in Schutzund. (if you want to pursue it) I think they make lovely companions, and I prefer their look. I will be fair and say that you will find a lot of workinglines on here who are excellent companions.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

My personal opinion based on experience: West German Showline, with low drive. Yup, I said it-- LOW drive. Even with Schutzhund as a possibility. 

You may have the ideal possibility of bringing your dog to work with you.. lucky you! A dog who can settle easily, doesn't regularly have the urge to ( fill in just about any overwhelming drive-y urge here), has a handler-focused, slightls softer temperament, not impulse to chase the office cat-- even with training, it isn't your OWN cat, so.... I would suggest that IF you are even asking, go with a less high-octane model. Later on, if sport becomes a real priority, that's time to bring out those drive fruther within what you can work with.. but unless you are a dogsports enthusiast, if you are new, if this is your first GSD, if you want a dog who isn't ignited easily, if you want a dog who can settle for a good stretch at a time-- I would go with German Showlines.

Please wait on any jogging until the pup is 18 months - 2 years, though.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Is getting an older pup or young adult not an option for you?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

And since you have lots of time until you get a dog you should keep an eye on your area gsd rescues. Lots of amazing dogs come into rescue and one might be the perfect match for you!


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## DoggieDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

Yeah...I have a former co-worker who has an Eastern European working line dog and he's amazing (the reason why I feel in love with GSD's) but at the same time is always "on". I've owned dogs in the past (small breeds) but this would be my first large breed dog and my first GSD and while I am very interested in getting into schutzhund, but I am a total novice when it comes to that sport and that is not my priority in getting a GSD now. 

Thanks so much for the great advice...are there any good Western German showline breeders you guys can recommend?


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## DoggieDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

I've actually looked at older dogs and even applied for um "non graduated" service dogs, but they have a 2-3 year wait list and the only GSD rescue in my area is Brightstar (which I've heard had some issues recently?? Not sure what they are but I doubt they would adopt out to me regardless as I go to school out of NY state). 

The NYC pounds are also incredibly depressing and I found a difficult finding GSD (most of them were pits) and the only one that I found was this poor thing that had been raised and confined in a backyard his whole life. He was a nervous wreck and in my years working with animals I don't think I've ever seen a dog as fearful of being out of a small space as this =(. So I'm trying the breeder route once again...


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Howzabout TeMar Shepherds? Or, also any showline breeder using Kirschental lines.. they tend to often have wonderful biddability!

I have a workingline dog myself. Incredibly affectionate, and can settle in the home wonderfully! But reactive. I need to WATCH guests if they are especially unpredictable/high energy, so that their behavior doesn't flip his ON switch. A guest can totally snuggle the heck outta my pooch, but if they watch a hockey game, leap up and yell "SCOOOOORE!!!"... that might be a problem. Reactivity in workinglines is like weak nerves in show lines: something often excused away, the result of breeding for extremes. We gotta look carefully in either type of lines.

I second the rescue idea-- getting an adult dog lets you see best what will be sharing your home and heart.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

What "look" do you prefer? While looks aren't everything, and some folks go so far as to say they shouldn't matter, it is human nature to find a certain "look" more attractive than others. As for color, if you like the "black and "red", "plush" coated look go with showlines. If you like sables or solid blacks, you will be hard pressed to find them in the showlines and should look at working lines. 

If you truely don't care about the looks or color, then you should be able to find what you are looking for in the WG showlines OR working lines if you look hard enough and find the right breeder that is very good at matching puppy temperment up with the buyers wants and needs.

Do you like this "type"?: 

* Aron vom Poppitz*










Or this:
*Blacky vom Neuen Lande*










Or maybe this:

*Quenn vom Löher Weg*










The above were coppied and pasted from the Pedigreedatabase.


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## TRITON (May 10, 2005)

For showlines, I'd recommend Tim and Kathy Wilmoth. Both are K9 handlers, breed showlines that that are certified working police dogs. They have many progeny titled also in schutzhund and also do well in conformation. Their website is http://www.wilmothdogs.com/WK9/


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

What about an older pup or young adult from a breeder? Or do you just want a little puppy. (If that is the case, there is nothing wrong with that, I'm just curious.)


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sorry - but I think a well balanced working line who is in the middle of the litter for more medium drive pup would be equally appropriate for your situation! I also concur that contacting the Wilmoths might be a good source as they have both show lines and working lines and have worked both on the street as LE K9s.

Lee


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

I would think that either a well bred well placed working line Shepherd from a breeder who is going to evlauate their dogs and place them appropriately would work. As would a well researched German Show Line breeding from a responsible breeder that will also evaluate and place their pups in appropriate homes. 

I know the head person of Bright Star had some issues but I would not rule them out. You can check the rescue boards here there is also the option of a rescue transport that could help to get a dog to you.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumSorry - but I think a well balanced working line who is in the middle of the litter for more medium drive pup would be equally appropriate for your situation!
> 
> Lee











My 5 month old DDR/Czech pup is sleeping on the floor behind me as I type this. She hasn't been outside(we were up late and she hasn't even asked to go out for a "break" yet.) or had any exercise since yesterday, and she isn't bouncing off of the walls.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My Lucy is low energy as well- but very high drive. If I had it to do over again I think I'd go for a dog with a lower drive. She's a handful for this novice handler- especially now at nine months. Before this period she was easy. I was lulled into a false sense of security







Luckily I hang out here enough to know that this is to be expected.
BUT she'll excel on the field, and she forces me to step up my learning and my effort. That's going to pay off later.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

That's the thing that a well bred working line is not always on the go as some people say. They settle easily and they are ready to work and play non stop until they drop (or you drop) the moment you put your hand on the door knob. Well, that's my experience with Anton, anyway.


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## shepherdbydesign (Mar 7, 2007)

What Tracy said is very true. Not all working line GSD's have that non stop drive. you would be happy with a low to medium drive GSD's not one that is extreme


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## DoggieDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

Hah, yeah I do see what you mean about young GSD pups lulling you into a false sense of security. Usually all the GSD pups I've meet at the clinic under the age of 5 months are so calm and pretty laid back. 

I do prefer sables and the darker pigmentation of the working lines (plus their big blocky heads ^_^), but for me temperament and drive are the most important. I think dogs with a higher drive or super high drive would not be a good fit for me. Thanks for all the suggestions, I will send an inquiry over to the Wilmoth kennels and let them know they came highly recommended.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

First and formost for me is temperament, I have less concern what line a dog comes from but I want the BEST nerve that I can find. I believe that a well balanced dog can adjust to almost any circumstance. I don't like dogs that have lots of energy but not enough drive and focus. To me there is a large difference in drive and energy. You can have a high drive dog, but with the correct amount a nerve this dog will be able to settle down. I personally would not own a dog that didn't have an off switch, meaning that no matter how much excercise physical and mental the dog can't settle. That is not a balanced dog to me.

With doing your homework and lots of looking at dogs and bloodlines you should come up with a list of what you want and what you like.

I have a variety of lines in my house and each one is different, some of it is contributed to the bloodlines and some of it is just dogs are all individuals.

There are a few nice American line dogs that are not as angulated and have nice nerve. There are German Showlines that are good and some not so good. The same with working lines, some breeders are breeding to extremes, these dogs are too hard, not balanced, can be hectic (no off switch, no settle, 24/7 movement), but there are breeders who have SchH3 dogs living in their house, that is balance.

Val


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## aaron.whitney (Oct 7, 2007)

I think that your best choice now would be to just get a companion dog, and when you are ready to have a working dog get a second puppy for that. There are differences in raising a puppy for a pet and a puppy for SchH. If you decide what is most important to you now and go with that you could save yourself a lot of frustration in the future. I have met many SchH3 dogs that are great companions now but were holy terrors as a puppy (from the companion perspective).


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Find a breeder you like and feel comfortable with and go from there. I have always owned working lines. Some were more laid back and some were/are not. All had/have off buttons. All are/were great pets.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree going with temperament/health and a good breeder is key to finding a puppy/dog that will fit into your lifestyle.

I also agree with working lines as Lisa has said, some are more laid back than others. 

I love my working line dogs, my 4.5 mth old puppy, is slovakian (eurosport) and ddr/czech,,while she is definately a bundle of energy, she is not hard to live with and has an "off" button. 

My ddr/american line male has always been VERY easy to live with, but ready to jump in and do whatever it may be, he is very middle of the road.

My deceased czech girl was an energizer bunny her entire life, even full of arthritis, she never ever walked, we always said she "flitted" )

Finding a good breeder who can match a dog to your lifestyle and the rest will fall into place )

Good luck in your search
Diane


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

If you were serious about SchH at this point, I would definitely recommend working lines. However, since that is more up in the air and you're looking primarily for a good companion, and SchH is secondary, German show lines where the breeder puts some focus on working ability and the dogs have real titles, or a more pet quality/middle of the road pup from working lines. Either would work out great for your situation. It comes down to finding a breeder of either type that you feel comfortable with, and then discussing things in detail with the breeder to make sure you get the right breeding/pup.


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## DoggieDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

Hmm...is there any online database (website) of the schutzhund titled dogs for the last few years? Or the german showlines? So that I can understand all the titles and pedigrees these pups and breeders have? I realize that that is probably pretty broad, but as I've said I'm a total novice when it comes to schutzhund and I know even less about German showing.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

You mean a list of all the dogs in the past several years who earned SchH titles? No. No such thing exists.

What sort of info are you hoping to glean from such a list if it did exist? Knowing what you're looking for might help give us ideas on what resources to recommend to help answer your questions.

For looking up info on Euro lines (show and working), PDB is a good place to start. Titles and show ratings are also usually listed. Though the information there isn't always accurate as it's user entered and not verified through any official source. But it's a good place to start.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd

Probably the best place to start your search is going to be to check out the dog training clubs in your area, including the SchH clubs. This should allow you to see GSDs of all types first hand to get a better idea of what best suits you, and asking them for recomendations is also a good place to start putting together a list of possible breeders in your area you might want to investigate further, or want to avoid.


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## TRITON (May 10, 2005)

Here are a couple of schutzhund organizations also. There you will be able to find some trials hopefully near you so you can get an idea of the sport and the dogs. I think that's the best way to get a better idea of the lines you may find you prefer. 
USA-www.germanshepherddog.com
WDA-www.gsdca-wda.org/


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## catbest (Apr 3, 2001)

Hey Doggie Doc,
Where do you live?? Do you want to find something close to you that you can go visit or are you comfortable shipping? That will help you set a territory guideline. I would suggest a lower drive dog myself for a beginner especially since you are positive about the companion aspect and thinking about the Schutzhund. You will enjoy your first GSD a ton if you do not have to work harder to train him/her then you are to complete your education. After you get one GSD trained your will learn more then you can ever imagine about what you wan to do differently.

Just make sure!! you get a breeder who has complete documentation on health in their breeding dogs, will answer ALL your questions patiently and helps you understand the type of dogs they are breeding for. Here is a link that might help you with your first questions. 
http://www.cluebus.com/holly/breeder.html
You must be prepared to answer your breeders questions as well since this is a relationship between the two of you and almost as important as the puppy you choose.

After all of this, the type of GSD you choose will be clear. 
Good Luck,
Cathie Best
WA State


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## DoggieDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

I just want to get a better understanding of what all the titles and ratings in GSD working and European show lines represet so that I can have a better understanding of the type of dogs, lines and pedigrees some breeders that I'm interested in have. For example if I were interested in an American show line I could just go to the AKC site and see their top dogs for whatever breed I'm interested in and start looking for a good breeder there...All those pedigree lines get a little overwhelming ^_^;


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

I think catbest said it all. 
You should really see what a high drive dog looks like- as a novice I would not go that route. I am speaking from experience. My girl has a wonderful temperment, she's I think a model working line pup-nerves of steel from what we see and very confident but she is a lot for me. It's not at all that she's go go go all the time because she's not at all- it's that when she is focussed on something I could hit her upside the head with a frypan and her focus would not waver. That can be difficult to manage, especially for a novice like myself.
You talk about the top dogs you could look up on the AKC- but the top dog might be totally inappropriate for you. There are so many facets to their personality that what wins might not be what you want. And what wins in AKC is not what wins in Schutzhund, or tracking, or agility......so it's all about the dog that will be right for you. Find a club and talk talk talk and learn. And watch.
My trainer breeds Malinois and Bouviers and she loves Lucy. Says she will sail through her schutzhund titles. Question is, will I be able to take her there? And if I can't, will she go nuts without that mental stimulation? I think she will, and that's why I do it. I think it's as important to her well being as feeding her.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Check out http://jagenstadt.com/

German showlines - Schutzhund titled..

I think Andrew may have a litter on the ground... not sure if they're all promised. He does a great job and pups are hand raised.

I may be a bit prejudiced since my Jack came from Jagenstadt.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Andrew is one of the FEW showline breeders that I feel really solid about giving a recommendation to. He knows his stuff, he knows his dod and bloodlines. There are a couple hobby breeders that have a litter every year or two that I like what they are doing also.

Val


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

3rd Andrew if you're looking for a showline


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## Jagenstadt (Feb 1, 2004)

> Quote: I think Andrew may have a litter on the ground... not sure if they're all promised.


*I have a litter of 5 boys (12 days old), there are 2 boys available. 
Here's a few pics of the litter from a couple of days ago.
The boys are VERY big and strong (no runts) and VERY active for their age.*

*Here's the links to a coupe of short videos also from a couple of days ago.
*
*Puppy Video 1* 
*Puppy Video 2*


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

Both Euro lines, are the good places to look.
But #1 should be Health & Temperament (GOOD Nerve & workability).
*Without Health & Temperament you will have nothing but trouble.*
Look for a Breeder that tests both the breeding stock(*HEALTH & WORK*) & most of all the Puppies.
Testing the puppies for placement is very important, should not be based on the length of the backhand.

A lot of *line-breeding & money *in the Show-lines, and things like DM, EPI, etc. are very present.
Go for a Breeder that is open and has gone the extra mile & done DNA testing. 

When I looking for a pup for my Daughter, it was VERY nice to find a stud that followed the SV & also did DNA testing, 
and it didn't hurt that he was the only V-rated protection performance (97) of the 2007 North American Championships.


As for Drive, have one from both lines, Show-line has high Prey drive, Working-line has high Civil drive both have Solid Nerve .
*The Show-line can PLAY SchH, but the Working-line WILL excel at it!!*

Good Luck


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## nathalie1977 (Sep 4, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: GSD07That's the thing that a well bred working line is not always on the go as some people say. They settle easily and they are ready to work and play non stop until they drop (or you drop) the moment you put your hand on the door knob. Well, that's my experience with Anton, anyway.


That's my experience with Freyja too. Right now she's sleeping by the door. All I have to do to change that is grab her ball. She'll be jumping to 6 feet in 5 seconds. And when I put it away, she'll go back to being Ms. Lazy Bones.


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## firefightrsflame (Jul 27, 2008)

LOL Nat- your Freyja sounds like my son! All I need to do is say, "Hey Nathan want to go out back?" Woohooo my 2 yr old son has gone from chilling on the couch, grabbing his sandles and hat in 0.2 seconds LOL!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

There are definitely pups in a working litter which make great companion dogs! Yesterday I had 2 pups out at club - one female just adored the kids - including a 3 year old who was hugging her and pulling her and generally being a 3 year old with her. The pup rolled over for belly rubs - but she has nice ball/toy drive and is not one to take any grief from another pup in the litter. She would make a nice novice dog and would be fine in a pet home...and two other pups are just that as well.

You can find what you are looking for within the various types - it is finding the right individual dog.

Lee


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## firefightrsflame (Jul 27, 2008)

Lee- I tried to PM you just now and it said you were maxed out lol. 

I will try to email you..


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