# 5 month old puppy.. Shock collar?



## Milkshakes00 (Jun 28, 2012)

Hi guys, I have a 5 month old Husky/GSD mix, and he is the most stubborn thing I've ever seen. I've had him for two months, tried training him every day with different routines and treats, and the most he's really learned is sit, and stay to a certain degree. I was surprised he learned stay before come, to be honest.

Multiple times I've tried to get him to learn to come. I've tried every method of teaching him, the only method that seems to work is if he's looking at me and I round a corner of the house or something so that he can't see me, so he freaks out and runs to try and find me.

If that were the only thing, I wouldn't be so bothered, but other than that, he becomes totally unruly on the leash sometimes. A lot of times he's perfectly normal and walks to my left really well. Other times he'll be curious and tug the leash to try and investigate/sniff around, which again, I understand. That's natural. He'll probably get over that and start walking with me more consistently. But often, he'll just lay down. Out of nowhere. Refuse to move, entirely. I've tried sharply tugging the leash and saying 'Come' to no avail. If he's walking slightly behind me and gets in this mode without me noticing, he'll literally fall over like he was paralyzed and refuse to move. He'll roll around, nip, put his paws on the leash and push them down. I've tried picking him up and placing him on all 4's, no dice. He just pretends to go limp and fall back over. I've tried coaxing him with a treat, and that made the situation into a 'I'll refuse to move ALL THE TIME, unless I get a treat.' We couldn't even get him to go outside to pee without it. Luckily when we stopped giving him treats, he stopped that. He starts to run and tug every time I say 'good boy!' I've tried heel, and everything. He just likes to literally choke himself, it seems.

The other thing is with our cat. Generally speaking he's pretty good around her, being a puppy and doing the whole 'I want to play!' stance and everything, she just obviously doesn't get it. The cat has swatted him multiple times, getting claws stuck in his snout and such, he still doesn't get the idea to leave her alone.

Also, puppy crazies, randomly, even though I exercise his body and mind, quite a bit. I give him 2-3 walks a day, I give him treats for training, I try to play games with him. He seems to generally be lazy with it. He'll chase the frisbee two or three times, and then he'll just watch you throw it and look at you like you have three heads. With that said, he'll go nuts, randomly. Running circles around the house, jumping on all the furniture, mouthing/scratching people.

So. With that said, anyone have any idea. A lot of people frown really badly on getting a shock collar. I got one and obviously keeping it low on settings (the model I have goes to 10, I've been leaving him on 1, always using the caution beep before using it, and he seems to react to the caution beep now after 2 shocks with it, so I mostly just use the beep.) He's stopped really jumping up on people after one shock with that, and he's stopped digging a lot around the yard since that shock, also. I've felt the shock myself, before I even put it on him, and it's hardly anything. He tilts his head at it. But I've seen him go all jumping dolphin on me before, but it was a split second thing, and I think it was mostly because he was caught off guard.

So, huge write up, short question: Dog misbehaves, like it's going out of style. Incredibly unruly, and acts like he's the big dog, after months of me trying to say otherwise, very sternly. Shock collar on bare minimum settings, used (in my opinion,) correctly, a bad idea?


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## apenn0006 (Jun 22, 2012)

I finally listened to everyone's advice on here and enrolled mine in obedience training. Apparently it's the best money you will ever spend.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Shock collar on a 5 month old puppy? No way would I ever do this. 

Your puppy is exhibiting normal puppy behavior and you need to deal with it in a more puppy-appropriate manner. I suggest enrolling in puppy classes or getting an appointment with a behaviorist if you are struggling to control your puppy. The dog isn't misbehaving. It's acting like a normal pup. It's up to you to teach your dog how to behave and to teach him in an appropriate way. Puppies don't come with inborn knowledge of how to behave according to your rules. 

I have nothing against correction devices. I use a pinch collar on my older dogs and have nothing against the shock collar when necessary. But for a puppy? No way. I think you are setting yourself up for some big headaches later on...


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I think he's too young. I agree with the other posters about getting involved in obedience classes.


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## Milkshakes00 (Jun 28, 2012)

I've looked into obedience classes around my area; Mostly speaking, I've heard all bad things, or they're grossly overpriced.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, a good e-collar is going to run you at least $250.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Where are you located? Maybe some people here could refer you to a good place.


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## Milkshakes00 (Jun 28, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> Where are you located? Maybe some people here could refer you to a good place.


There's a PetSmart, but I've heard poor things over and over about that specific place.



> Well, a good e-collar is going to run you at least $250.


I had purchased the Innotek IUC-5100, as far as I have seen, it's been rated really highly as an electric fence, and it comes with a training remote for the collar.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Milkshakes00 said:


> I live in Catskill, NY.
> 
> Mostly in my area obedience classes are in Hudson, NY. There's a PetSmart, but I've heard poor things over and over about that specific place.


How far are you willing to drive? Sometimes you have to make the sacrifice of a little extra driving for good classes.


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## Milkshakes00 (Jun 28, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> How far are you willing to drive? Sometimes you have to make the sacrifice of a little extra driving for good classes.


Really was hoping not to drive too far, Poughkeepsie is too far, Albany is pushing it to make multiple trips per week.

Locally, I know there is a woman that charges (I think,) $80 per hour. It makes my head spin.

I know there are the Monks of New Skete up near Albany, but they aren't a training program more than a 'Leave the puppy here for a few weeks, and we'll have him in tip top shape.' for I think it was $1,000.


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## San (Mar 22, 2012)

I am not against e-collar or prongs, but the puppy is too young for an e-collar. At this age, everything needs to be controlled via management. I agree with others, take him to a puppy class. At this stage in his life, it is your job to learn to interact with him in a way which makes him believe that you are the source of fun/joy in his life. Make him enjoy obedience training so he wants to work for you.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I could refer you to a good starter obedience course in Albany that is once a week.


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## Milkshakes00 (Jun 28, 2012)

San said:


> I am not against e-collar or prongs, but the puppy is too young for an e-collar. At this age, everything needs to be controlled via management. I agree with others, take him to a puppy class. At this stage in his life, it is your job to learn to interact with him in a way which makes him believe that you are the source of fun/joy in his life. Make him enjoy obedience training so he wants to work for you.


From everything I've read Huskies seem to be more 'I work for myself than you,' kind of dogs, which I guess is why I'm kind of forcing my hand on this one, since he's been nothing but a nightmare for over 3 months now.



> I could refer you to a good starter obedience course in Albany that is once a week.


What's the name of it?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

Milkshakes00 said:


> From everything I've read Huskies seem to be more 'I work for myself than you,' kind of dogs, which I guess is why I'm kind of forcing my hand on this one, since he's been nothing but a nightmare for over 3 months now.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the name of it?


I'll PM you.


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## apenn0006 (Jun 22, 2012)

Milkshakes00 said:


> Really was hoping not to drive too far, Poughkeepsie is too far, Albany is pushing it to make multiple trips per week.
> 
> Locally, I know there is a woman that charges (I think,) $80 per hour. It makes my head spin.
> 
> I know there are the Monks of New Skete up near Albany, but they aren't a training program more than a 'Leave the puppy here for a few weeks, and we'll have him in tip top shape.' for I think it was $1,000.



I mean it really comes down to how badly you want a well-behaved dog vs. and out-of-control dog that is not always reliable. Personally, I think $80 per hour is very reasonable. Most training sessions will last an hour, one day a week, for up to six weeks. Atleast those are what most are that I've looked in to. That is only $480 and more than likely you will be breaking the payments up between sessions. I bet there is something you can cut out of your budget for a while that will allow you to afford that.

I will be travelling about an hour, one day a week, starting tomorrow to take ours to private obedience classes. I also plan to seek further training than just basic obedience bc I know it will be worth every penny.


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## clearcreekranch (Mar 18, 2010)

Join BowWowFlix and rent some DVDs. No e-collar on a puppy that young.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Milkshakes00 said:


> Hi guys, I have a 5 month old Husky/GSD mix, and he is the most stubborn thing I've ever seen. I've had him for two months, tried training him every day with different routines and treats, and the most he's really learned is sit, and stay to a certain degree. I was surprised he learned stay before come, to be honest.
> 
> Multiple times I've tried to get him to learn to come. I've tried every method of teaching him, the only method that seems to work is if he's looking at me and I round a corner of the house or something so that he can't see me, so he freaks out and runs to try and find me.
> 
> ...


Yes, definitely use an e-collar. Crank it up to a high setting and put it around your neck. Every time you give your pup a command that you cannot immediately praise or help the dog get into the proper position, press the button and give yourself a good jolt. 

Every time you tell your pup to COME and you do not have a line on him and a treat in your hand, give yourself a good jolt. 

I think after a week or two, dependent on your ability to learn, you should see some very good results with your puppy.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Milkshakes00 said:


> I've looked into obedience classes around my area; Mostly speaking, I've heard all bad things, or they're grossly overpriced.


You need to try them and find out for yourself. They are all different and if you have had problems for 2 MONTHS and your puppy is only 5 months old, there is more going on here.

Teach a puppy isn't just natural for most of us. We all have problems and issues and the sooner we get real help the better. Waiting only leads (for me) to anger and frustration. When clearly all that's going on is the method you are using is not clear to your pup. Like you trying to teach me something in Russian and not understanding why I am not doing what you are asking.

We would be speaking different languages UNTIL you (  ) worked it out. 

Puppy class helps teach US how to bridge that gap. I also really like clicker training because it FORCES me to pay attention and figure out what works. USING positive. 

You want to build a relationship with your dog so they WANT to listen/learn and be with you. If at 5 months you are already resorting to a MAJOR correction for basic training, there is something wrong with that relationship and bond. You need to figure out how to fix that and then you'll be amazed how suddenly smart your puppy becomes. 

You read this ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html

and http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-time-owner/165774-gsd-puppy-primer-tips.html yet?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

oh boy!!!



selzer said:


> Yes, definitely use an e-collar. Crank it up to a high setting and put it around your neck. Every time you give your pup a command that you cannot immediately praise or help the dog get into the proper position, press the button and give yourself a good jolt.
> 
> Every time you tell your pup to COME and you do not have a line on him and a treat in your hand, give yourself a good jolt.
> 
> I think after a week or two, dependent on your ability to learn, you should see some very good results with your puppy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> You need to try them and find out for yourself. They are all different and if you have had problems for 2 MONTHS and your puppy is only 5 months old, there is more going on here.
> 
> Teach a puppy isn't just natural for most of us. We all have problems and issues and the sooner we get real help the better. Waiting only leads (for me) to anger and frustration. When clearly all that's going on is the method you are using is not clear to your pup. Like you trying to teach me something in Russian and not understanding why I am not doing what you are asking.
> 
> ...



^ What she said! Two months is not a very long time, especially when you started with a young puppy. 

Training him every day with a different method is probably just confusing him, and I highly doubt you've tried "every method" of teaching him to come - maybe every method you can think of, which is why finding a training class should help you. They're going to have great ideas that have never even occurred to you! 

Also, if you abandon a method after a couple of days you're really not giving it a chance to work.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

If you are failing at training then an e-collar isn't going to help you. Your biggest concern right now is going to be a good +R trainer. You have a puppy, who is exhibiting puppy behaviors! Now is the time to teach, not punish. Should punishment be necessary later on, you can address that when the time comes. 

Personally, I would NEVER put an e collar or prong on such a young puppy and I've used both tools very successfully. Though I think they can be useful if used correctly, they are abusive and inhumane when used in a negligent fashion (ie on a puppy who doesn't understand what you want and/or hasn't been properly trained ... and considering you are making a post about quick fixes and e collars, I'd say you have a ways to go with 'proper training' of your little guy)


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## Sir Bear (Mar 9, 2012)

My guy was heck on wheels until about 6 months...I felt very frustrated, we went to +R training every week and I was consistent as I could be, but nothing much changed his craziness until that age. 

I got a new trainer that recommended we start a prong collar, but he made a big point of it to say that 6 months is the absolute youngest he'll do since before that they usually just aren't old enough.

I feel your pain, I know it's frustrating! But if you can just wait a little longer, you may notice him calm down on his own (the "puppy" stage coming to a close) and then he may be ready for corrections. I do not regret using them and it's made a huge difference in our relationship...BUT if you're going to use a shock collar you need a good trainer to show you how to use it (timing is extremely important with training tools), so if price is a concern; that's not going to help you much. 

Tug or a flirt pole can be a lifesaver!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Timing is everything or almost, yes! That is why it is important to be able to follow through with a command immediately. If you say COME 14 times, you are just training your pup to ignore you. Don't give that command if you do not have a line on him. Have something yummy for him too. Make coming to you the best thing in the universe. If pieces of kibble are not exciting enough, use pieces of cheese, pieces of hot dog, pieces of beef liver. The ball or the tug can be a great incentive for the dog to WANT to come to you. If you call your pup to you and then yell at him for having an accident, or chewing something up. That is a major fail, on your part. He just came, he just did what you wanted, got to praise him, even if he did chew up a $130 pair of sandles -- that was your fault for giving him access and not supervising anyway. If you absolutely must curb your dog for something that is already over (yes totally useless, but whatever) go and get him, do not call him to you. 

Until your dog thinks that when you call him, beautiful special wonderfulness happens when he plunks his butt in front of you, every single time, don't use the command COME, unless he is connected to a leash or long line. Do not repeat the command. If you offer cheese, say COME and he is busy smelling the flowers, then give a tug on the lead. If he still doesn't come, go and get him and bring him where he should be, have him sit, and they say GOOD SIT. 

Make you exciting and lucrative, more exciting and lucrative that the hole to China he is digging, and he will come. Have him do something you want him to do, to play with the ball or the tug. Teach him to sit and then to down before you throw it. Put a lead on him and teach him to WAIT, and then FIND, make it a game. It is all a game. And when you want him to come, pull out that tug or ball and say, COME! Obedience training does not have to be serious, it is a game. A game with great rewards. Pretty soon you can phase out the treats, but you should still be fun, and praise is always available and it doesn't run out, it is free, no excuses. 

Learn to motivate your dog. So much better than punishing your dog. You will like it more too. And the best trainers, the ones whose dogs are UDX, etc, they know how to motivate the dog. That is what you need to learn.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-intro-clicker-training-perfect-puppies.html

I'd also be working on trick training --> Teaching a trick is the least important part of teaching a trick

Look how well it works but watch the interaction between pup/human NOT just the tricks. The focus and attention and puppy going what what what what what is what we want.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

What is +R training?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think positive reinforcement.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

selzer said:


> I think positive reinforcement.


That makes sense.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I introduced my pup to the e-collar when she was around 5 months, but I used it very sparingly and on vibrate only (have a dogtra, so it has that function). Even now, I only use it for training when I absolutely need to (which isn't common) and for off leash activities and interactions with other dogs since she is incredibly toy possessive. I think there's a time and a place and it all depends on how/when you use it.


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## robfromga (May 10, 2012)

At what point would you jolt him? Seriously, will you jolt him into sitting or peeing?

I'm not against e-collars or prongs. But if you need it for basic stuff, its your deal not the dogs.


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Surely putting a shock collar on a puppy this young is only going to create a dog who is collar savvy? 

Whats going to happen when you take it off if you have no control without it? Or are you expecting your puppy to wear it for the rest of its life? 

I really don't see a need for using such a tool at this age. If you are having problems then it is your responsibility to go the extra mile and find a good training group to join. 

I know how trying a puppy can be at this age, my girl was an unholy pain in the butt but at this stage you are still building a bond and establishing trust. You don't want to ruin that by confusing or scaring your dog. 

Instead of punishing the bad find out what makes your puppy tick and use that to reward the good. I promise you will get better results and faster if you make training fun. 

Here's a list of reinforcers to try out 
List of Reinforcers


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