# Color??



## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

Doesn't there have to be blk/tan or red present in both parents for you to have a black/tan or red pup??


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

Could you have a black/tan pup if only one parent has it and not the other?


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

My puppy has one black & tan parent and one sable parent and he is black & tan.


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

I understand that. Your sable probably carries blk/ tan recessively.


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

What I'm trying to find out....I have a sable female who has 4 puppies. 3 sables and one blk/ tan. I never saw her bred but I do have a blk/red male. However there are other dogs in the neighborhood(pointer, labs, mostly hunting dogs, no other German shepherds around here). For there to be a blk/tan in the litter, doesn't it have to be my male that got her??


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

The parents do not have to be black/tan to produce black/tan offspring. They could be sable, but carrying black/tan as a recessive. Or they could be white, carrying black/tan which is masked by white.

The only color they couldn't be would be one that is recessive to black/tan, which would be black or bi-color.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

How old are the pups? They could be those colors, but not purebred. It could take a few weeks to determine if they are purebred or not. If they are, then I suppose if there are no other GSDs in the area then your male is probably the sire. It is also possible for a litter to have multiple sires, so some pups may be purebred and some may not.


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

They are now 4 days old. But doesn't the other dog have to carry the blk/ tan gene for there to be a blk/tan pup? I wouldn't think a German shorthair or a lab would carry that. I would question it more if they were all sables.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Your sable female could carry black/tan as her recessive, and the pups got it from her. You can't be sure based just on color at this age that they are purebred.


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

Do you know when you can start doing DNA testing?? Can you do it right away??


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Why don't you just wait and see how the puppies develop? DNA tests are notoriously unreliable...


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

You could DNA test anytime.

The tests for determining what breeds a mixed breed dog is can be unreliable.

Parentage DNA tests are a different story though, and are very accurate. If you want to know if your male is the sire you would need to have a DNA profile done on him, and then on all of the puppies, and compare the two. That would tell you for certain if he is the sire.


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

I really don't doubt that they aren't my males puppies. My dog doesn't ever leave the yard and when they are in heat I'm always outside with them to make sure no other dogs come around. And I really think the puppies have their dads head and short body. They have wide short muzzles like him. Really nice stop like him. Big foreheads. I just seems like I have to prove something to others I know. Ya know?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Was this an accidental litter or something you planned to do?
Who do you need to prove the litter to?


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## aspurrier87 (Aug 10, 2012)

It was not planned...she is so close to her SchH1 and I didnt want anything to happen until she got it. I would have done the breeding later down the road


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

In GSD sable is a dominant gene , which means that in order to have sable pups ONE of the parents must be sable. Two black and tan can not produce a sable pup.

Black and tan is recessive to sable - so yes you can have a sable do producing black and tan pups . 

I've had a few litters , where one was clearly black and tan and the other sable and the litter may have been 50/50 more or less , or only one of a particular colour . No pattern.

Example , here is a male I used , without question black and tan Asko vom Schloß Zweibrüggen - German Shepherd Dog 
Asko vom Schloss Zweibruggen 

bred to a female that I owned Elona Kuhnhof - sable , daughter of Brix Laimbachtal (sable) and Fonda vh Santa Loma (sable) .

In the Asko breeding I had a litter that was right down the middle , half black and tans , the other clearly sable.
One of the females resulting from that litter was Carmspack Faya , a replica of her sire Asko . Faya was bred to a sable , and that resulted in sable female , Samba, owned by a forum member .

One of the offspring Asko produced , nicely shown here Jenta von der Verstecktes Tal - German Shepherd Dog is clearly sable .

Carmspack Kilo -- Carmspack Kilo - German Shepherd Dog bred to the same Elona , produced sable and black and tan dogs - in this litter I believe only one of the 4 was a black and tan , the rest sable.

Black is recessive to black and tan .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

If you aren't sure who the father is, or you need to prove parentage, get the DNA tests done. And yes a sable bitch can have black/tan offspring if the father is black/tan (or carries black/tan). 

I am not sure how coat color genetics work when other breeds get into the mix, though. I had a GSDx once upon a time; the mother was a registered black/tan GSD, and the father was unknown to me, but my dog was a black/tan saddleback.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Does AKC require DNA from imports to have them recognized for registration. I was told this was the case . How would you go about this , provide what ? hair , bucal swabs , blood . Where to send ? 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Yes Carmen...AKC does require it.
It is a mouth & cheeck swab/brush.....you send it back to AKC, in a pre-addressed envelope.
The lab sends you back a genetic DNA profile to keep for your records.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Robin would you be so kind to give me the address please. I have a pup going to Detroit and would like to get this done to make dual registration easier.
Do they require the sire and dam swabs .
Carmen


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Carmspack, here you go:

American Kennel Club - DNA and the AKC

American Kennel Club - DNA and the AKC

American Kennel Club - Contact AKC DNA Operations


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Carmen....you can find the information on the AKC website...you can order and pre-pay for the DNA envelope right there on the site. They will mail it out to you within a few days.
They do not require the parent's DNA. This is individual DNA profiles. Stud dogs having bred more than 3 litters now....must also provide and pay for DNA testing.

www.akc.org


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