# At wits end with Apollo



## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

Apollo, my 7 month old is driving my wife and I INSANE. He has been nothing but trouble starting about a month ago for no reason. He has completely forgotten all his house training, he chews on everything, fights with my other dog, screams when he is in his crate, etc etc etc etc etc etc asdlkfjasdlgkjasdlk.

We are loosing our minds and are about to put him up for adoption. We just don't get it. He used to be well trained and a joy to be around. Now we can't do anything because we have to babysit him 24/7. When he is out of his crate he drools water everywhere and chews EVERYTHING. When he is in his crate he immediately pees on himself. I think it has something to do with his actual crate because just now he was out walking around and instead of peeing in front of the door (like he always does now, doesn't even try to wait for us to put the leash on him) he walked INTO his crate and pissed everywhere, then walked right out and started playing with my other dog. Makes ZERO sense because he only pees in his crate when we are home. When he sees us both leave out the door he has held it for up to 12 hours! He knows he is doing something wrong because I will yell NO! and he will immediately stop peeing and lay down with the saddest look on his face.

We have tried saying NO! and taking him outside, rubbing his nose in it and saying NO!, keeping him out of his crate for longer, lowering his water intake. NOTHING WORKS. We have to mop the entire house and wash his toys and box daily bc he soaks them with pee. He will even pee and then LAY IN IT. It's so nasty.

When we bring out the treats for his training sessions he will pay 100% attention and do the sit/down/stand dance for as long as he gets food, but as soon as we are done he goes frakking insane and destroys everything like he was a month old again! He is so much better than this but something has happened and he just doesn't try to be a good dog anymore and it breaks our hearts. We know he can do so much better. 

Anyone with similar experiences?


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Take him to the vet and check for urinary infection.

Also - and some of this you may be doing -
give him plenty of exercise
when you are watching tv or working at your desk, put him on lead and have him lie down near you
also teach him a "place" like a special towel in your tv room or kitchen.
play games in the house like hiding a favorite toy and teaching him to "find it"

Sounds like he needs more physical and mental stimulation. He's at that 'awkward' stage.

hang in there.. this too will pass.


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## Micky (Jan 1, 2011)

I feel for you, I really do, but just try to hang in there, our Stella will be 1 year this month, but I assure you that we also had extreemly trying times with her, the behaviours were different than yours except the chewing, she chewed everything, walls (they are made from cement) furniture when no one was looking, stole things for fun and attention, it was so frutstraing, she spazed out every evening like a tazmanion devil we were ready to move out and leave her the house!!! We faithfully tried it all, exercise, treats, time outs etc, and then one day she seemed over it, now she still does things to get attention but easy enought to fix, she does not pee, but maybe yours is attentin seeking, and like a kid any attention is good attention. I would not rub the nose in pee, that does not work, I am sure you will get lots of suggestions from forum members here, all I can say is hang in there it will get better, eventually you will wonder what happened and hopefully laugh a bit.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Sounds like you need to get a good trainer involved. 7 months is a difficult age, kinda like doggy teen angst, but this sounds deeper than that.

IMO opinion you should not give up on your dog...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

first I'd do a vet workup, second, how much EXERCISE physically and mentally is he getting?? Obedience classes??? 

Behaviors like this , especially the chewing , sounds like boredom to me..


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

He is getting pretty good exercise. He and my other dog chase each other around 24/7. Enough to where they both take a breather every 10-15 mins. We take him to the dog park several times a week and we recently bought them a 10' play pen in the back yard for days we don't make it to the park.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well it sounds like maybe he is getting more interaction with dog(s) than with his humans?? 

I would "up" my one on one time with him, start an obedience class, and work on your relationship with him vs his with other dogs..


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Sandman0077 said:


> He is getting pretty good exercise. He and my other dog chase each other around 24/7. Enough to where they both take a breather every 10-15 mins. We take him to the dog park several times a week and we recently bought them a 10' play pen in the back yard for days we don't make it to the park.


Not enough exercise.

He should go for a long walk every day. Does he play fetch, if so then he should also play fetch daily, does he like to swim, then take him swimming a couple of times a week.

He needs to have physical and mental exercise on a daily basis, what you are doing for him is not enough. 

GSDs are active breeds, they need active owners.


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## hps (Jul 18, 2011)

Ritz seems to get more "worn out" with mental exercise more so than physical exercise.


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

I would get a trainer involved. They all go through a bratty stage. You need to be patient and consistent. Limit his water, put down the bowl to let him drink then put it away. Take him out 30mins later. Do not take him back inside until he pees.

And DO NOT rub his nose in his pee! That does nothing! Would you do that to a child who had an accident in the house? No, because it makes no sense. If they are having accidents in the house, it is completely your fault. You are doing something wrong. Not them. Never punish for urinary accidents.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

second Jakoda .
why is he only peeing in the crate when you are there?
You did say when you are out he can hold it for 12 hours.
So maybe the training wasn't so good. The relationship has gone south. Too much dog on dog action , at the park , and poor and conflict laden relationship with the other dog. 
This young dog is just coming into his own. He is brow beaten , challenged by the older dog.
Then along comes "you" telegraphing being annoyed and frustrated, rubbing his nose in urine, which is totally useless , teaches nothing at all.

Maybe finding him a different home is a good solution.

If you choose to keep him, separate the two dogs. 
Get a better association with the crate .
Put him in and take him out every 15 to 20 minutes . Each time you bring him out be positive even if he did pee because that peeing may be anxiety -- don't pay attention. One person take the dog out , be pleasant. Meanwhile the remaining person in the house removes the wet newspaper (good absorbent material). Clean the crate with some enzyme cleaner which takes away the urine smell. Bring the dog in and be relaxed when you ask him back in. 

This way he won't feel locked up .
He does not anticipate drama when you look at him in the crate , or when he comes out . He doesn't mind going in because he knows he will come out soon.

How much of an age difference is there with the other dog?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Sandman0077 said:


> He is getting pretty good exercise. He and my other dog chase each other around 24/7. Enough to where they both take a breather every 10-15 mins. We take him to the dog park several times a week and we recently bought them a 10' play pen in the back yard for days we don't make it to the park.


I would hardly call that enough exercise for a GSD. We have 4 other dogs that Ozzy loves to play with all day long. They chase each other around the yard and all kinds of fun doggy things. Still, if I don't take him out to play fetch for at least 45 minutes (but usually an hour or more), he's a pain in the butt. And he's a Pomeranian. 
Mental exercise is also a must. If I don't give Ozzy something to do, or at least work on commands he already knows, he bugs me and everyone else. Haha. 

More exercise, for sure.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> rubbing his nose in it and saying NO!,


Curious what you feel you're "teaching" him by doing this??

Leash the dog to you, and take him outside, not letting him stop along the way.
Is this dog neutered? If not, he's reaching sexual maturity and may begin marking behavior.

None of these are his fault but just being a dog. If you feel you must do these things to him, perhaps another home would be a good idea. 
But neuter him first.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

put the other dog into a crate also . Make it fair . Let the younger dog have exclusive one on one time with you.
Carmen


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Too much dog on dog action , at the park , and poor and conflict laden relationship with the other dog.
> 
> How much of an age difference is there with the other dog?


Our vet suggested we get another dog to keep him from getting bored, and it's worked so far until the other dog gets tired and lays down. Then he's roaming around picking fights with paper towel rolls lol.

The other dog is a 6 month old German Shepherd/Terrier mix.



msvette2u said:


> Curious what you feel you're "teaching" him by doing this??


Same as any other training. Bad to pee indoors, praise for when they pee outdoors. Not saying its the best method by any means but it has worked on other dogs in the past. We don't want to train him this way though, he is a good hearted dog and is smart as ****, we just can't wrap our heads around his behavior.



carmspack said:


> put the other dog into a crate also . Make it fair . Let the younger dog have exclusive one on one time with you.
> Carmen


Apollo is the older one, and to be quite honest, its the younger one that stays in the crate longer. She has never had an accident in her box either. Apollo just wants out I think. When we let him out he just goes and lays down elsewhere in the house, usually at our feet or nearby. Is it possible he just can't be crate trained?


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> Same as any other training. Bad to pee indoors, praise for when they pee outdoors. Worked on other dogs in the past. Not saying its the best method by any means though.


I don't see how that shows them its bad to pee indoors. If anything its only going to make him start peeing in other places and hiding it from you.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I never even addressed the 'peeing' issue, but again, I would do a vet check up to rule out UTI...and sorry the reason for getting another dog to keep the existing one busy is not a reason to get another dog..( It's YOUR job to keep the dog busy, train them, again obedience class is a great plus it's not your other dogs responsibility to keep him busy..

Ruling out a med condition, he's a male, he could be marking his territory, he could be doing it because he hasn't been trained to do otherwise,,you may 'think' he 's trained but maybe he's not..Rubbing noses in it, smacking them with a paper, is OLD SCHOOL, obviously it ain't working if he' still is doing it, so why keep doing it?

When a dog potties in the house, it's usually because we as humans aren't supervising as closely as we should...what your doing isn't working, keep him tethered to you at all times while in the house, take him out ALOT, ignore the bad, reward the good.

Again, to me, it just sounds like he doesn't get enough HUMAN time, and I'm not talking about sitting or laying around the house,,it's about getting out and doing something with him one on one, work on your relationship..just my 2 cents


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Your Vet's advice to help his energy level was to get another dog? Find a new vet. He should have told you to train and exercise your dog more. The only thing he did was convince you to get another dog so that you could now have 2 dogs that dont get enough exercise.

Never put a puppy or dogs face in their own pee. When the puppy/dog makes a mistake say no and take the dog outside (do not stop to clean the mess, just take him immediately outside) when the dog pottys outside then praise him!​


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

We love both of the dogs. We were planning on getting other dogs anyways, and as a way to interact with something other than our two cats we got our other dog. We train him and such, so saying that we aren't doing it enough isn't the issue. I was asking about why he might be peeing indoors all the time, not if I am a good dog owner.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Your dog is entering the age bracket where most dogs get dumped into shelters. My dog Kopper is that age too. You can see why-- they're not cute puppies anymore, they're teenagers, they seem to have forgotten their training, hormones are running amok, they don't feel the need to listen to you the way they once did, and their exercise and training needs go through the roof.

Your solution is to train more and exercise more, and in that order. You should spend AT LEAST an hour one-on-one with your dog daily, training and exercising him. Also hire a trainer and/or get into some classes.

As others have said, get the vet to check for a urinary tract or bladder infection. If your vet doesn't find any medical issues, it's time to re-housebreak him by tethering him to you.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I almost gave up on my GSD when he was a puppy, but I strongly encourage not to give up-I decided to keep my dog on the day his new owner was coming to get him, and I have never regretted it and that was over 2 years ago now.

GSD's need lots of attention and exercise. I can't stress the exercise part enough because that makes a big difference in how my dog behaves. A tired dog is a happy dog. Romping around in the yard with your other dog isn't the same mentally as you taking your dogs out on a nice long pack walk, at least once a day. And of course training is extremely important.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Emoore said:


> Your dog is entering the age bracket where most dogs get dumped into shelters. My dog Kopper is that age too. You can see why-- they're not cute puppies anymore, they're teenagers, they seem to have forgotten their training, hormones are running amok, they don't feel the need to listen to you the way they once did, and their exercise and training needs go through the roof.
> 
> Your solution is to train more and exercise more, and in that order. You should spend AT LEAST an hour one-on-one with your dog daily, training and exercising him. Also hire a trainer and/or get into some classes.
> 
> As others have said, get the vet to check for a urinary tract or bladder infection. If your vet doesn't find any medical issues, it's time to re-housebreak him by tethering him to you.


Yep, the dog is in that rebellious teenager stage right now, much like human teenagers go through!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

LaRen616 said:


> *Your Vet's advice to help his energy level was to get another dog? Find a new vet. He should have told you to train and exercise your dog more. The only thing he did was convince you to get another dog so that you could now have 2 dogs that dont get enough exercise.*
> 
> 
> 
> Never put a puppy or dogs face in their own pee. When the puppy/dog makes a mistake say no and take the dog outside (do not stop to clean the mess, just take him immediately outside) when the dog pottys outside then praise him!​


I agree, that is crazy advice. Just adding another dog may be why your GSD is acting up...

Take a deep breath, and come up with a plan that WORKS and involves you (not getting another puppy/dog). All our dogs change a ton in the first year. And they ALL require tons more exercise and training WITH their human. Not amongst themselves.

And if you are really overwhelmed, contact your breeder. I'm sure you went with a responsible one and when you signed the agreement/warranty it goes with the 'call the breeder' if there are any issues clause.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

My pup is only 4 months old, and my first purebred GSD. That said, he is not my first pup, nor my first experience with shepherds. My first was a shep/malamute mix that was 30" at the withers and 120lbs. I got him from a shelter at 7 weeks. 

The big red flag for me was the "rubbing his nose in it". I don't mean to sound unkind--I have already experienced angst over my pup and he hasn't even hit the teen stage yet. But this is a huge sign to me--why would you want to treat your dog that way? I thought everyone knew all you do is come across mean and terrible to your dog, and you damage your relationship, possibly irreparably. 

I agree--running around with another puppy is NOT nearly enough exercise. I take Rocket for walks of at least two miles, twice a day. Some days we only do one walk/hike than a play session (45 mins or so) with another dog, or a shorter walk, or a trip to a regular park and walk around in it, socializing and training. I train him CONSTANTLY all day, little bits here and there. At LEAST once a day, we have "formal" training sessions of about 15 mins, broken into 5 min segments, with some affection inbetween. And he's ONLY 4 MONTHS OLD. At your dogs age, you should be spending at least 30 mins twice a day (or more, maybe) working with him. You mentioned sit/down/stand---please please tell me you're working on more than that with him? We've already started the stays...the recall...the heeling (more just very good manners and walking next to my leg, alternating legs so depending on situation he will walk where ever I want him to). He can rollover, shake, and is learning how to catch a treat on his nose. 

Also, I wonder if introducing another puppy has caused him to "forget" his training and manners. I've always thought two pups at the same time is extremely difficult, as they reinforce bad manners in each other, and it's difficult to find enough time for one, let alone two. It's possible, but should be left to the few who can truly do it and have the time. 

I find myself frequently exhausted, and my house definitely is not as taken care of as it was this summer before pup. LOL. My family all pitches in with the pup, and are all greatly affected by him, but we know it's only a short time comparatively speaking to the 10-13 years (hopefully) we will spend loving him. Please don't give up, and take all these suggestions to heart and truly ask yourself if you're tiring him out fully, mentally and physically. And if you re-home someone, please don't let it be him. He was there first.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> *I find myself frequently exhausted, and my house definitely is not as taken care of as it was this summer before pup. LOL.*
> 
> _And if you re-home someone, please don't let it be him. He was there first_.


LOL! my house has gone to the dogs!!!!

i also agree with the italics.

anyways...my dog is 9 months. he is with me 24/7 and never had an accident in the house since 2 weeks after i got him (i think it's because he IS with my 24/7. literally. even when im on the toilet lol..actually im just fortunate enough to bring my dogs to work with me). my point is....as this age he is running around with my other dog (who tires quickly as she's older) from 7am-11pm at night. he's out of the crate. greeting my customers, playing with snickers, playing with toys, chewing the kong, taking cat naps once in awhile. I ALSO run him 2.5 miles 4-5 days a week and play fetch with him for 30 minutes at night. HE NEVER SLOWS DOWN!!! even after our run you can't tell he just went on a 2.5 mile run. it blows my mind!!! but with all this exercise he does have an off switch. if i need him to be quiet i can tether him, put him in his crate and he'll lay down and be quiet.
if it means getting up a few hours earlier before work then i really think you should do it. it will be hard at first...but after a week or so you will start to see results, and you will feel better because it's healthy for you too! (and don't complain to me about time, i am up at 6:45 to get dogs fed, let them hang out an approprirate amount of time before we go running, in the mean time i clean my house somehwat, make and pack my lunch, get my clothes together, pack the car, then run to work, work from 9am-10pm, go home, feed dogs and feed myself and in bed at midnight to do it all over again the next day. i've beend oing this for a year! the joys of owning your own business lol)
i would also get him double checked for a UTI-my female dog would only pee on her blanket when she had one.
also-maybe change the diet?? some foods give dogs more energy then they need


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If you cannot parent one child and are having issues, the doctor never says "get pregnant and have another kid!" 
Why would an animal medical professional give this advice? 
:smh:


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sandman0077 said:


> We love both of the dogs. We were planning on getting other dogs anyways, and as a way to interact with something other than our two cats we got our other dog. *We train him and such*, _so saying that we aren't doing it enough isn't the issue_. I was asking about why he might be peeing indoors all the time, not if I am a good dog owner.


I don't think anyone is doubting you love your dogs. :wub: 

"Train him and such" means ?? And actually, that you may not be doing it "enough" could play into things. Sounds like he thinks he's the king of the house and acting out. It really could be that he's not expending the mental and physical energy he's needing to. Additional, professional training might be what you should add much more of. It may also help you go reassert the dominant role that it seems you've lost. 

As for the chewing, let me ask a dumb question -- does he have lots of things that are for him to chew on?

First, though, please do rule out the medical issue. That's a lot of peeing. Also sounds behavioral, though, since you say he's only doing it when you're home? As though he's figured out that's the fastest way out of the crate. These dogs aren't dumb!

As for rubbing their nose in pee,,,, Nah. That's really old school and long proven to be foolish and not help a thing.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

By "reassert your dominance", I think what is meant is to just take over leadership role.

Mind Games (version 1.0) by M. Shirley Chong

and 

Nothing in Life is Free

are two excellent ways. Other than that, get him in to the vet for a check up. A different vet, lest this one advise to get yet another dog...


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

RocketDog said:


> You mentioned sit/down/stand---please please tell me you're working on more than that with him? We've already started the stays...the recall...the heeling (more just very good manners and walking next to my leg, alternating legs so depending on situation he will walk where ever I want him to). He can rollover, shake, and is learning how to catch a treat on his nose.


We have just mastered the sit and lay down, and he only does it when there is food involved. He doesn't do it freely. Only just began the standing, as it's taken us 5 months to get sit/down. I have been working with loose-leash walking though. He has adapted well to that.



MicheleMarie said:


> (and don't complain to me about time, i am up at 6:45


I wake up at 0445 and work 0530-1800 every weekday. I'm in the Army so I know about lack of sleep lol. The problem is that my wife works nights so the only real play time we have is when I get home at night before she works and I go to sleep.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sandman, are you taking him to training classes or trying to do it on your own only?


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

chelle said:


> "Train him and such" means ?? And actually, that you may not be doing it "enough" could play into things. Sounds like he thinks he's the king of the house and acting out.


He is well behaved, he just doesn't care to listen to us unless it's something he knows is wrong like jumping on the couch or chewing on the cat.



chelle said:


> Also sounds behavioral, though, since you say he's only doing it when you're home? As though he's figured out that's the fastest way out of the crate. These dogs aren't dumb!


Exactly! So how do we get away from that? We can't let him run around all night by himself.


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> I wake up at 0445 and work 0530-1800 every weekday. I'm in the Army so I know about lack of sleep lol. The problem is that my wife works nights so the only real play time we have is when I get home at night before she works and I go to sleep.


 
don't make me do math!!!!!
do you have a friend that could exercise them durring the day?


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

MicheleMarie said:


> don't make me do math!!!!!
> do you have a friend that could exercise them durring the day?


1800 is 6PM


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sandman0077 said:


> He is well behaved, he just doesn't care to listen to us *unless it's something he knows is wrong* like jumping on the couch or chewing on the cat.
> 
> Exactly! So how do we get away from that? We can't let him run around all night by himself.


I'm no professional, just want to start with that.  Here's my .02, worth about a hay penny most likely.

Anything YOU think is unacceptable, should be "wrong." If he doesn't "know" it's wrong, he must be taught it is wrong and corrected accordingly.

Bottom line, it doesn't seem he accepts you as the leader of the house. The links posted earlier about NILIF is a great start. He's coming thru the teen years and testing his boundaries and has discovered they're bendable. 

You need a firm, consistent hand here. By that, I do NOT mean physical abuse in any way. Yelling, intimidating, etc to get your way will possibly make him do as you wish, but he won't respect you or your rules and in the long run, may create a neurotic, even viscious dog. Fair, consistent handling is, IMHO, the only way to go.

Eat a little slice of humble pie and sign up for some professional help before it goes any farther. Please don't be offended, but taking five months to teach "sit" indicates there is very likely a training issue. Dog training has really changed over the years. I signed up for a second dog class when the first wasn't quite what I was after and at first I was like, ohhhkay, this is silly.. (we started with "sit." We've had that one figured out since week 11.) But as the class went on, the trainer taught me a couple new strategies on other things I wouldn't have just known on my own. She taught ME how to better teach my dog, for which I will become a better owner/handler. 

I know first issue of concern for you is the peeing.. I understand that must be a major drag to deal with. Who likes to clean up pee. But I don't believe you can address THAT issue without addressing the underlying, bigger issue of what I see as him manipulating you because he doesn't see you as the top dog.

Definitely begin the "mind games" that the link was posted for above asap. Make sure he has good chews and sign up for a class as soon as you can.

Bottom line, I guess, is ditch what you *think* you know about dog training. I am often surprised by suggestions people offer here that are really good, creative and effective! I thought I knew a few things, having raised four puppies over my life... but there's always a little tidbit here and there that makes me say OH YEAH, that's a good way to do that! I'm not fond of the taste of humble pie, but I'd rather eat it and correct my issue than let the problem turn into a nightmare.

Sorry for the long post.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> He is well behaved, he just doesn't care to listen to us unless it's something he knows is wrong like jumping on the couch or chewing on the cat.
> 
> and more from Sandman -- driving my wife and I INSANE. He has been nothing but trouble starting about a month ago for no reason. He has completely forgotten all his house training, he chews on everything, fights with my other dog, screams when he is in his crate, etc etc etc etc etc etc asdlkfjasdlgkjasdlk.
> 
> ...


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

what Chelle said is very true. A good trainer doesn't actually train dogs. They teach YOU to train your dog. 
NILIF is a very good start to re-establishing a relationship with your dog


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

chelle said:


> Sandman, are you taking him to training classes or trying to do it on your own only?


My wife and I are attempting this on our own.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

carmspack said:


> Sandman0077 said:
> 
> 
> > He is well behaved, he just doesn't care to listen to us unless it's something he knows is wrong like jumping on the couch or chewing on the cat.
> ...


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Sandman0077 said:


> carmspack said:
> 
> 
> > I meant that as an overall. He IS well behaved most of the time, but he has his moments of complete terrorism.
> ...


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm going to try to break things down a little bit? And btw, I love the name Apollo. I almost named my guy that name.  I sometimes regret I didn't.



Sandman0077 said:


> Apollo, my 7 month old is driving my wife and I INSANE. He has been nothing but trouble starting about a month ago for *no reason*. He has completely forgotten all his house training, he chews on everything, fights with my other dog, screams when he is in his crate, etc etc etc etc etc etc asdlkfjasdlgkjasdlk.


Don't think it's a matter of "no reason." I'd say he's figured out he CAN push the boundaries and now he's an adolescent and to heck with what you want. Before, he was just a pup and more easily controlled. Again, he has learned he can do *what he wants* and life goes on fine for him. Maybe you yell at him - but hey, bad attention is still attention so he'll take that in a pinch.

Again, are you giving him good chews? It burns off some steam. No replacement for good, solid exercise, but important. If he does have chews, what kind?

What do you do when he "fights" with the other dog? Is it really a "fight" or is he trying to play when the other isn't receptive? I control this with mine by a good squirt of water on the pup when he's trying to play too hard/too much with the other dog. That may not be enough of a deterrent for many dogs, but works here.

Did he ever accept his crate? You might have to go back to beginning crate training 101. 



Sandman0077 said:


> ....he walked INTO his crate and pissed everywhere, then walked right out and started playing with my other dog. Makes ZERO sense because he only pees in his crate when we are home. When he sees us both leave out the door he has held it for up to 12 hours! He knows he is doing something wrong because I will yell NO! and he will immediately stop peeing and lay down with the saddest look on his face.


Let's go back to basics here. When you were initially potty training, did you reward heavily for elimination outside? I'd say to start doing that again. Really high value rewards. LOTS and LOTS of praise. Leave the crate door shut. 12 hours is a looooong time in a crate, is that a regular thing he has to deal with? You could go buy the sprays they sell that are supposed to discourage elimination in whatever area. I don't really know about their effectiveness, though. Is there anything soft in the crate? Some dogs, including mine, will be more likely to pee on something soft. 



Sandman0077 said:


> We have tried saying NO! and taking him outside, rubbing his nose in it and saying NO!, keeping him out of his crate for longer, lowering his water intake. NOTHING WORKS. We have to mop the entire house and wash his toys and box daily bc he soaks them with pee. He will even pee and then LAY IN IT. It's so nasty.


Cease to rub his nose in it. Totally ineffective. If you do not catch the dog IN THE ACT, do not correct in any way. By rubbing his nose in it, you may be defeating your purpose by conditioning him to almost accept his own elimination. I"m not saying that quite right, but bottom line, stop that.



Sandman0077 said:


> When we bring out the treats for his training sessions he will pay 100% attention and do the sit/down/stand dance for as long as he gets food, but as soon as we are done he goes frakking insane and destroys everything like he was a month old again! He is so much better than this but *something has happened* and he just *doesn't try to be a good dog anymore* and it breaks our hearts. We know he can do so much better.


He probably doesn't care about being a "good dog" because you're not *making* him be a good dog. Not making him work for anything. That's where the NILIF will potentially change A LOT for you and him. I really can't stress the importance of NILIF enough. (Nothing in life is free.)

Change it up. Start with using treat rewards 100%, then lower it. In other words, do a sit, treat, sit, treat, sit, shake, treat, sit, shake, high five, treat... until he's being forced to do more and more for that treat. 


I hope something there is helpful to you. Dogs are SO MUCH WORK! My entire LIFE is devoted to doggy this, doggy that. My main goal is ensuring enough exercise, and training following directly behind. If you're not tired with a young dog, you probably aren't doing it right.  But then again, I'm 41 and no young pup myself.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

chelle said:


> My main goal is ensuring enough exercise, and training following directly behind. If you're not tired with a young dog, you probably aren't doing it right.  But then again, I'm 41 and no young pup myself.


I'm going to turn 41 next month, and I run (or used to prior to pup, really) 20+ miles a week, and lift weights 3x weekly. Most of the time I feel like it's a whirlwind of doggie stuff and am EXHAUSTED. I FELT young before I got him--now I feel like I have a newborn, colicky baby, I swear.  LOL


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

chelle said:


> Again, are you giving him good chews? It burns off some steam. No replacement for good, solid exercise, but important. If he does have chews, what kind?


We have Kongs and squeaky toys, and calcium bones.



chelle said:


> What do you do when he "fights" with the other dog? Is it really a "fight" or is he trying to play when the other isn't receptive?


It looks like rough playing to us. They are very loud when they play but they don't whimper like being hurt in anyway. When they get to loud we separate them into their boxes for a cool down.



chelle said:


> Let's go back to basics here. When you were initially potty training, did you reward heavily for elimination outside?


We praised him heavily when went but no food praising when he would go outside. 



chelle said:


> 12 hours is a looooong time in a crate, is that a regular thing he has to deal with? Is there anything soft in the crate?


No, That is not a regular thing he has to deal with. It is maybe once a month. He tends to pee more whenever there is nothing but a bone and a toy in his crate. When his bed is in it he would rarely pee but would tell us when he needed to go out but we took his bed out to wash it and it got ruined so we haven't gotten a new one yet.




chelle said:


> Cease to rub his nose in it. Totally ineffective. If you do not catch the dog IN THE ACT, do not correct in any way. By rubbing his nose in it, you may be defeating your purpose by conditioning him to almost accept his own elimination. I"m not saying that quite right, but bottom line, stop that.


My husband wouldn't do that randomly when he saw pee in his box. It would be right after catching him in the act. But I made him stop doing it once he told me he was doing it. 


I would like to add something. We are first time owners of shepherds we have never dealt with this before. That is why we come to this forum for help. NOT for people to gloat about their puppy being better than ours. I took that very offensive. We are new to this game, we need advice not criticism.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

It looks to me like you've been given advice, but you have an answer for everything. I would suggest more and better chew toys. Nature's Instinct makes some awesome raw frozen bison bones that I bet your pup would LOVE. Also, Bully Sticks. Pig ears. Canyon Creek Ranch makes some awesome jerkies and dehydrated yams that can be rotated into the mix. 

No one is gloating about their dogs, but taking 5 months to learn to sit suggests something is not working in the training dept. Please please please google some clicker training methods, I feel like they would definitely help for you. Also, if you could find a trainer in your area that is CPDT/Clicker training they would be such a great reference. Please research it.


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

I don't think people are "gloating" about their dogs, but rather offering comparisons. You have hit the teenage phase and it is very difficult and very frustrating ESPECIALLY if it is your first. People are doing their best to give you advice, try not to take it to personally. Some people are just a bit more "abrasive" but they do mean the best (usually) you've been given advice try it all and find what works for you. It is hit and miss with me and Dooney some things work, some things don't but I try anything and everything offered there are some VERY knowledgable people on here. Hang in there!


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Sandman,

Putting NILIF into practice will amaze you with it's results if it's done consistently. Print out the page at Nothing in Life is Free and tape it to the fridge door.

I am by no means an expert, just going by the results so far with my 13 mth pup. It took the trainer drilling it into my head to show me how valuable this tool is. Your pup may protest, sometimes loudly until he learns this is how it will be. This can be started before the visit to the vet for the exam for UTI.

If you are unable to walk him on a particular day. Play ball with him. Have 2 balls, throw one, have him drop it and as soon as he is dropping it, throw the other. A few rounds of sprints such as that will use up some of his energy, put him in a better frame of mind for training. You decide when the game ends, not when he decides he has had enough and is to worn out to play any longer. Be careful how long he plays or how hard he sprints, he's still a growing pup.

Find a good trainer and if possible in your area, one specializing in GSD. Your trainer will be able to point out different methods that may work better or point out some things that you can correct about how you are handling your pup. 

As far as the pup destroying things, look at your home as if you were planning for a baby/toddler to move in. Look at everything at that level and remove it. I can't blame my pup for something because *I* left it out. Our pups know better, but they are still pups.

I'm with the others about sticking his nose in the urine, please don't. That sad look he is giving you is fear.

Our dogs are so freaking smart it's scary. They'll read your emotions, see what buttons they can push just like a teenager. And just like with a teenager, you have to be the one to stay calm and in control.

Good luck, you really can survive this and not go insane


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

I think our 'answer for everything' is just my wife and I explaining exactly what we are doing so you have a better idea of what's going on.

He doesn't care for the training as much as we do, he would much rather just run around and chew of stuff. He stays focused for about 5 minutes at a time, so maybe he is just a slow learner and will take him longer to perform commands. We have been clicker training him for awhile and he still loses interest sometimes. He just doesn't care about training. All we are really looking for is the basics. He's not a trick/show dog.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sandman0077 said:


> We have Kongs and squeaky toys, and calcium bones.


My dogs have never given a hoot about kongs. Boogers. (Well, unless there was something stuffed in there and as soon as that was gone, to heck with the kong. )

Squeakies, great fun.  But don't burn off the steam like a nice, good bone will do. Not sure about calcium bones.? Do they go at them like they're yummy? There will be differences of opinion on what is right/safe/smart to let dogs chew. Knucklebones & kneebones have been quite successful here. Antlers as well. (Thanks to the poster who told me about those.!) A bullystick is like manna from heaven, but can't let them go too crazy for too long and whoa does their breath STINK to high heaven afterwards. Also you have to be careful about guarding once they get such high value stuff. Better off to seperate the dogs when they have such awesome things... 



Sandman0077 said:


> It looks like rough playing to us. They are very loud when they play but they don't whimper like being hurt in anyway. When they get to loud we separate them into their boxes for a cool down.


Could you post a vid? I've done that before when I just couldn't decide if it was normal dog play or dog "fight." Dogs do tend to be loud and obnoxious when they play.



Sandman0077 said:


> We praised him heavily when went but no food praising when he would go outside.


I think you mean you did praise outside, just not without food? Start the praise the second the stuff hits the ground.  Good potty! Good poopy! Repeat.  And I would praise with treats immediately after -- as soon as he's done - the second he's done - so he can associate. From what you've said, he's quite treat-driven; capitalize on that! Thankfully I live pretty far from neighbors, anyone watching me with puppies would think I was the CRAZY DOG LADY. 



Sandman0077 said:


> No, That is not a regular thing he has to deal with. It is maybe once a month. He tends to pee more whenever there is nothing but a bone and a toy in his crate. When his bed is in it he would rarely pee but would tell us when he needed to go out but we took his bed out to wash it and it got ruined so we haven't gotten a new one yet.


Ok... maybe get a new bed...? Quite the opposite of my goofy pup but if it's a deterrent, I'd use it. 



Sandman0077 said:


> My husband wouldn't do that randomly when he saw pee in his box. It would be right after catching him in the act. But I made him stop doing it once he told me he was doing it.


The thing is, a dog's memory is quite short when it comes to this. They need immediate reaction in order to tie things together. Immediate correction, or immediate praise, whichever the case may be. Once the action is over, it's over. The window of opportunity is simply closed. I've heard countless people say, "Well I came home and my dog pooped on the carpet and he looked at me all guilty because he knew what he did!" No. Not the case at all. The dog reacted to the human, who became upset, agitated, etc and so on. The dog was picking up on the human emotion, not the poop on the carpet. The dog done forgot about that two seconds after it was out of his butt. 



Sandman0077 said:


> I would like to add something. We are first time owners of shepherds we have never dealt with this before. That is why we come to this forum for help. NOT for people to gloat about their puppy being better than ours. I took that very offensive. We are new to this game, we need advice not criticism.


Wellll yes I know. There are a lot of perfect dogs here.  Mine is one of them... buahahhaa Just Kidding!!!!!!!!! But people here take things really seriously. Some are a lil grumpy and some very straight forward. You have to sort of weed thru the various personalities. :laugh: But seriously, most work hard to help others. They WILL point out your failures, and that doesn't feel too good. I would know. 

Honestly, I would NOT try to continue to do this on your own. My attitude with my puppy has been that I MUST train properly, because I will end up with a large, powerful dog that I MUST be able to control. My others are smallish. They've been thru various training as well, but I am putting more emphasis on my pup's due to what he WILL be. You'll be there, too. I hope I haven't come across as condescending and all-knowing to you. I mean no such thing. But seriously, trying to do this on your own, with limited knowledge, is something of a recipe for disaster. Not saying it can't be done, but for the first time owner of a dog that *requires* strong leadership, it's A LOT.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sandman0077 said:


> He doesn't care for the training as much as we do, he would much rather just run around and chew of stuff. He stays focused for about 5 minutes at a time, so maybe he is just a slow learner and will take him longer to perform commands. We have been clicker training him for awhile and he still loses interest sometimes. He just doesn't care about training. All we are really looking for is the basics. He's not a trick/show dog.


Haha, heck yes!!!!!!!! I'd rather run around and chew on stuff, too!!!  If I was a dog, anyway. Slow learner, I doubt it. Stubborn, probably.  Don't baby this guy anymore and don't underestimate him. I mean, the guy has figured out if he pees in the crate, he immediately gets out. Not a stupid dog, IMO. Wear him out a bit before training sessions. Make him work harder for what he's getting. 

*Immediately start NILIF.* For example, is he required to sit/stay before he's allowed to eat? Is he required to sit/stay/shake/high five, whatever! before earning a treat or chewie? Doing this establishes your leadership role. YOU are in charge of all the good things; food, chewies, toys, etc. This might sound difficult, but it really is not that hard. Google on how to train certain commands. (Better yet, do enroll in a class or get a pro.) 

You can do this thing if you're willing to put the time and energy into it!


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Sandman0077 said:


> I think our 'answer for everything' is just my wife and I explaining exactly what we are doing so you have a better idea of what's going on.
> 
> He doesn't care for the training as much as we do, he would much rather just run around and chew of stuff. He stays focused for about 5 minutes at a time, so maybe he is just a slow learner and will take him longer to perform commands. We have been clicker training him for awhile and he still loses interest sometimes. He just doesn't care about training. All we are really looking for is the basics. He's not a trick/show dog.


Dooney has severe "focus" issues as well. Does your pup have a fav treat? Get a handful of those and play the "look at me" game. Have the treats in your hand, have him sit in front of you and as soon as he makes eye contact with you treat/clicker him. at first the look at you will be VERY quick- so be ready to treat/click, eventually you work on the lenght of time he looks at you. 

YOU should determine the length of training- not the dog- leash him if you have to in order to keep him with you. You need to take back your leadership role. I think it is the colder weather coming too- even my horse is acting up right now and we are back to basics! (you think a GSD pup is bad... try a high strung 1200 pound animal!! lOL) You can incorporate the Look at Me with the NILF- he wants out- he has to sit and make eye contact, he wants his food, he sits and makes eye contact. NILF is helping us immensley, and she is getting much quicker on her sit and down lately too. Also I bring her to PetCo and work on it in there as well as well as her sit stay.


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## Sandman0077 (Jun 5, 2011)

I have been reading the NILIF page and it all seems easy to perform. Thinking about it, they both have a dozen toys laying around and usually drink water and play whenever they want. I currently have him leashed to my foot laying next to me and he is being quiet and calm.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Sandman0077 said:


> I have been reading the NILIF page and it all seems easy to perform. Thinking about it, they both have a dozen toys laying around and usually drink water and play whenever they want. I currently have him leashed to my foot laying next to me and he is being quiet and calm.


It really isn't that hard, but the benefits are really great! I just can't recommend it enough. Basically, making the dog DO something for everything they get. Sure, my dogs have turned their nose up at me, but then they simply don't get whatever-it-is. They do the command within a very short time, or I quit and walk away. I won't beg, I won't repeat the command, I just walk away. They soon learn that mama means business  and if they want whatever, they'll do what mama says.

Try it, really. You'll be posting back here in a week? or so saying, I am so glad I started doing this. (I mean, a week is the start, I'd continue to do it forever. Even my eight year old gets nothing for free. Nothing.)


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Great!! It is easy, the hard part sometimes is being consistent. 

Like when he darts out the door instead of waiting till he released to go outside, having to call him back and redo it.

Or when he comes up pushing at you or nudging your hand to be petted, you automatically want to pet him but instead have to ignore till he walks away then call him back and pet or have him follow sit command before petting. That was a tough one for me especially since it took a while before we could pet him.

He's hungry and yet he has to be in a calm sit before he gets his food, and that is after the puppy dog eyes while he is in a down stay during our meal.

The neighbors thought I was crazy, going up and down the stairs multiple times until he got it that he had to wait for me instead of running up ahead of me.

Just be happy that in a couple of years he won't be asking for the keys to the car


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

train and socialize a lot more. crate
your pup when you can't watch him.
are you and your wife actively invloved
in the pups training and socializing?
you don't give up you get up and train
and socialize more.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

Sandman0077 said:


> I have been reading the NILIF page and it all seems easy to perform. Thinking about it, they both have a dozen toys laying around and usually drink water and play whenever they want. I currently have him leashed to my foot laying next to me and he is being quiet and calm.


Can I please just add that I was feeling way over my head when my girl was about the same age as yours! I remember writing a thread here, about how much of a little rat-bag she was! I had large dogs before, 1 was a GSDx but nothing compared to Miss Molly!

I think you have lots of good advice already, and NILIF is great, I had slacked off over the last while but on advice, I have re-introduced it with my almost 2 year old, and it does make a difference.

It probably would be a really good idea to look into training classes, it helps bonding between you and pup. And also when you do training at home, keep it really short..a few minutes a time.

And please believe me, I am not being condescending ; Molly is a work in progress still


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

Sandman, I sure understand 100% how you feel. GSD's at that age are butt-holes. It's almost like having a 2/3 year old toddler around. BUT trust me, it will get better. They will get out of that stage.

When mine were that age....I limited the amount of toys they had. Just a couple, then the next day I would rotate with other toys. I just made my own homemade treats for the dog. You can check some of the threads here and find some wonderful, cheap, homemade treats you can make yourself.

I'm not sure about the peeing in the crate.....but I would def. get him checked by a vet to make sure he didn't have a infection. If he was potty trained before....but suddenly started peeing for no known reason....it could be something medically wrong with him.

GSD's are very loud and can be scary when they are playing with other dogs. I know mine sound like they are killing each other. There are youtube video's that some of the people on here have posted of their dogs playing. Check those out. Shepherd's are LOUD dogs.

My dog's are trained....but at that age, they all liked to test my limits. 

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

agreed, people aren't saying their pup is better than yours. They are saying that you need to re-evaluate your training methods.
GSD pups are super smart and will make up their own way of doing things. That is where a good trainer comes in. They will show YOU how to engage your dog. A good trainer is going to have more than one trick in their bag because they know that different dogs need different methods.

Apollo is just entering his teenage phase. Singe is 10months old. Believe me, he seems to delight in finding new and exciting ways to disobey. I know that he will grow out of it, so I just batten down the hatches and keep plugging on.

Lots and lots of exercise. Instead of trying to do one long session, do several small sessions. Stop before he gets bored and tired, but gradually increase the time you expect him to be attentive. You want him to find training fun and exciting. Don't do the rote and drill method. Change things up and keep him guessing.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sandman0077 said:


> I think our 'answer for everything' is just my wife and I explaining exactly what we are doing so you have a better idea of what's going on.
> 
> He doesn't care for the training as much as we do, he would much rather just run around and chew of stuff. He stays focused for about 5 minutes at a time, so maybe he is just a slow learner and will take him longer to perform commands. We have been clicker training him for awhile and he still loses interest sometimes. He just doesn't care about training. All we are really looking for is the basics. He's not a trick/show dog.


I think it sounds as if training is no fun because he has a higher value time with the other dog. IF he is good for 5 minutes at a time you train 5 minutes at a time a bunch of times a day. I have raised several GSDs so the butt hole stage is something I am familiar with but soiling himself - maybe you do need some help. I had a terrier like that who was raised as a kennel dog before I got him and this is very hard to overcome. I am thinking if he can stay out in the excercise pen and then you slowly build his time inside the crate.maybe you can elimiate it. ...white vinegar is good throughout the house for areas where they enzyme stuff may not be suitable...you need to get rid of ALL odor.....does he eat in the crate? That would be good. 

I have two dogs and one puppy (12 weeks, attention span of a gnat) and while I can take them out together for potty breaks I am the source of all play. My morning starts out with potty for everyone, then I take out Beau the puppy and play two ball with scented throws and some tug and a little motivational obedience.

Then Grim (Beau is still out then but Grim ignores him)...and Grim chases balls for me....and for now little Beau can't keep up but he tries to chase the ball too and every once and awhile he gets it 

Then Cyra after Grim and Beau are put up. She is too possesive and Grim is used to her dive bombing for the ball and ignores it but I don't want the puppy bombed.

Then we come in. Before breakfast each dog gets a walk and some obedience. Settle in crates rotating dogs in and out to have one on one time with me-every hour or so Beau comes out and we do something fun for a short time with the clicker. 
Then at lunch (I work from home) Grim, Beau and I for a walk in the woods

Evening is learning house manners for Beau (exasperating with a puppy into everything) or a field trip to a new area

Multiple dogs are a LOT and more dogs is more work than having one dog.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Sandman0077 said:


> I would like to add something. We are first time owners of shepherds we have never dealt with this before. That is why we come to this forum for help. NOT for people to gloat about their puppy being better than ours. I took that very offensive. We are new to this game, we need advice not criticism.


I think that it is exactly the contrary!! You are the one that at first put all the blame on the pup and people is telling you that the real problem is not the pup itself, but the way he has been raised, your training methods and your relationship with him. When they speak about their own dogs they don't mean theirs are better than yours, only what has worked for them to get there.

But hey! You love your pup and I can't blame you for become defensive, we all become a little bit when it comes to our babies. I like to read too how you re willing to learn and do the best for your pup, not everyone coming here with post as your first one are as open to advice.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I agree with Catu - I went back and looked at my post and the intent was to clarify the amount of work needed to do it right not to say how good it all is It just takes a lot of work to wind up with a good dog.

Even if your dog is "only a pet" he may still have working drives and energy and it is up to you to focus them for the good not the bad. It is a breed that needs a drive outlet and mental stimulation. Too many dogs his age wind up in shelters because people are not prepared for the experience.


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## S19977 (Feb 19, 2011)

I just want to say I feel your pain Sandman. I think most people on this board have felt the way you feel at some point. Raising a GSD puppy is not an easy task. You have to get through this toughtime by being consistent. Mine calmed down around 10 months old, but I exercise the crap out of him and do a lot of obedience at night. The suggestions you've received from the more experienced members, are good ones. NILIF took me a few months to see a real difference in his overall behavior. Just don't get angry with the dog, that usually makes things worst.


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## S19977 (Feb 19, 2011)

jetscarbie said:


> Sandman, I sure understand 100% how you feel. GSD's at that age are butt-holes. It's almost like having a 2/3 year old toddler around. BUT trust me, it will get better. They will get out of that stage.


Agreed. I am raising a toddler and a GSD by myself. It's "fun". :wild:
The similarities are amazing. I guess this is what it feels like to raise twins


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

No real advice to add just want to wish you luck. GSD puppies are difficult when they hit the teenage stage, they really are the worst lol.. 
My girl Rio is a year and few months old and she has turned into a sweet gentle dog loved by all but if you had seen us at 6 months of age 
bite marks on my arms, bits missing of all the furniture in our house and constant caos lol! I wanted to just hand her off to the first person that seemed willing to take her but we stuck it out and she really is my best friend. My partner loves to make fun of me now when I cuddle with her in the evenings saying "Do you remember when you cried every night and said she just didnt like you and didnt want to learn? Aint you glad we didn't give up??" and I can honestly say YES I AM!


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## WhiteShepherdSlave (Oct 8, 2011)

hi, 
i am new to the forum and i do not have a GSD yet I have to wait till nov 12th but I will say please don't give up. Me and my husband adopted a mistreated husky who was already 8mo old and who also came from a puppy mill before the family we got her from. 
She was overly obsessed with my husband and hated me. Then my husband got bored with her and I couldn't do anything with her because she didnt like me. My husband then left for Poland for a month and Ezra was so sad and acted out. She would run away every chance she got even bringing the police to my door because she had been on the highway. I had a newborn alone and her not to mention i was on bed rest and couldn't exercise her like she needed. I found an air force sgt to adopt her and she bonded with him right away which was different because of her abused past she would bark at males and hide. I thought I had found the perfect place for her but I still worried and wasnt sure I was doing the right thing. 
My worries later were confirmed when we were told the owner i gave her to didnt register her (so she was still ours) and she had run away and was in a tierheim (pound). It took me 28 days to find where she was and rescue her. They were trying to keep her to breed her to one of the male huskies they had by asking me if i really wanted to pay 550 euros for her (736.50). I paid and got her out... she wasnt the same though. I feel horrible about it too. I eventually found the guy and cussed him for what happened and he reimbursed us and registered her with the vet but then he would email me about all the problems she was having after and told me he was going to rehome her again..

I know this is a long story but I think it is worth trying to work it out. Though there is a chance you could find a good experience family for your pup it might end up to be a nightmare like what happened with her. I will never give up another animal again.
I am no way a dog expert but animals can feel your stress too maybe that is why he gets scared and pees.


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## Justin0406 (Jun 18, 2010)

Hang in there... They go through the normal butthead stage. My wife was so fed she gave me one month to get his problems fixed. I enrolled him in obedience class @ 7 months. He was so out of control we almost got kicked out the first day of class. Now he's 17 months and he the best thing since the departure of our beloved Jordan back in 07. I have not post in 6 months but I will get some up to date pics posted. He loves to play - No more biting, still some chewing but he's easily diverted to proper chewing toys. Trust me it will pass. Just keep working with him.


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## Witz (Feb 28, 2011)

Lots of solid advice from those who have choosen this breed. All puppies are a challenge, they are all similar and yet all different. My 8 month old can be a major pain in the arse, as well as looking at me, at times, with that, "you talk'in to me" look.

As some one mentioned, mental stimulation can help as much as the exercise. I have a decent sized yard and will drop a few balls around and ask him to find them. It's the same as when we practice tracking, 5-10 minutes of using there nose with a reward at the end seems to take the edge off. He's just being a busy GSD pup that is temporaily sucking the life out of you, just like a child. Hang in there, it usually gets better.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Agree part of it is the age. Saber was driving me nuts at 8-9 months but suddenly at 11 months remembered all her training and manners and is just the nicest dog I could imagine! Hang in there, and I do agree with a lot of the advice here. Maybe a basic OB class, more time working on trust and a bond, more one on one time.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

Great advice from everyone in this topic already but the main thing is to really show that you love them. Praise them so much to the point that they know whats good and bad. IMHO, you're not giving the dog enough attention. Running around with the other dog is not exercise. That's just running around with the zoomies. Dogs are the most chaotic when they get the zoomies. On rainy days, she doesn't get to go out. She runs all over the house and it's scratching up my carpet but just try channeling that to something else like toys. My dog loves the rope. 

I've never had to deal with this teenage rebellion thing with my girl because she trusts in me. If she pees, as many has stated, I don't punish her for it because in most cases, she was trying to give me signs but I just didn't notice. 

Instead of asking, whats wrong with my dog. Ask yourself, how can I (as an owner/parent) better train my dog to be a good modeled citizen? A dog is only as good as it's trainer. Start from the basics again if you have to. Build a better foundation.


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