# Fear Aggressive Bailey - Part 2



## GSDLove (Dec 6, 2007)

I don't post a lot due to work and life but I thought I would come and ask the folks that have had a fear aggressive dog that they decided to put to sleep how you dealt with the guilt of doing so.

Bailey has been fear aggressive his entire life but I got with an excellent behavior/trainer and had made progress with Bailey and was able to keep him out of situations he could not handle and that I had gained control over him.

Well I was mistaken! I had been taking him out in my Pathfinder, with windows up when I went to get gas, or drive through What a Burger he was fine ever time. Until yesterday day, the clerk at What a burger came to get the money from me and Bailey tried to bite him and got me instead because my wrist was blocking him from getting his head passed my headrest to drivers side window. I know I should have had him in his crate, so it is my fault. 

Below is the last thread about him.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...gressive-gsd-4-years-old-pedigree-posted.html

Thank you.


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## CeCe (Jun 1, 2011)

I've never had to put a dog down for aggression but it looks like you've given it %100 to try to help him. I know it isn't easy and I wish you the best.


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

did he realize it was your wrist once he bit you? honestly just keep him crated in your vehicle or leave him home, my last gsd was very dangerous out in public, so when i took her to get gas etc i made sure to not roll down my windows and just opened them a crack to hand out the money to the gas attendant.. 

its a management issue, which if the dog is fine with your family can be worked out, BUT you need to know the dogs limitations.

honestly to euth a dog that is good with your family and just doesnt like other dogs or strangers is not a good excuse.. now if the dog was biting you and all your family then yes, euth the dog.. but if the dog is good with your family then just know his limitations and work around it.. you know he will go after a hand if the car window is open, so either keep him crated in the car, or get one of the car barrier bars and keep him behind that, or leave him home

my last female was great with family in the house, just bad outside the house, so i managed and improvised for her accordingly.... 

no need to euth for dog aggressiion either, unless your dog is sneaking out of the house killing all the dogs in the neighborhood...

only you can decide what you can and cant manage.. i did it for 9 years... once you do it its like a routine , when i wanted to take her out i did it before it got light out so that no one was out, or after dark. i made sure no one was around and kept my eyes open. i always had her on leash, and was very aware of my surroundings. ( her aggression was actually good when i was out at night alone with her i knew she would protect me should something happen )


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> its a management issue, which if the dog is fine with your family can be worked out, BUT you need to know the dogs limitations.


I completely agree. I have a FA female and know when and when NOT to let her have her freedom. Sadly she is confined to home more often than not, but she is a happy well adjusted dog at home. She gets exercise and we walk the trails behind the house, she also gets out in the neighborhood, but any dog running up to us will bring her aggression up. She is fine with my kids friends. If I have people come over I tell them to 'own the house and ignore her' & she's fine after she makes the first intro/sniff. But I won't allow her around small children whatsoever or people who aren't in to dogs....she'd take the advantage and it wouldn't be pretty.
I just manage her and deal with her as she is. I can't change her genetics.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

you are probably never going to have a 'perfect' dog, however, it sounds like you've made progress with him and you know what sets him off, how to manage situations and him.

THere will probably always be slip ups, if you love him, and want to continue to manage him, chalk this up as a slip up and learn from it.

If you don't think you want to continue on this path,well there is always euthanization.

I had a fear biter years ago, I managed him, yes he nipped a few people, (not his fault, people can be stupid),,nothing serious at all, but it was a 24/7 life style . Its not easy, but I stuck it out.

Only YOU can answer how to proceed we can't do that for you


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I do understand the stress but I can't answer your question b/c I was able to manage my two FA dogs and never considered pts. Was it stressful? Absolutely? Did I change my life for them? Yes! Did they get better with time and training (and a lot of learning on my part)? Yes! Were they ever "normal" dogs? No! Basu almost got there when he was older but I still had to watch him like a hawk. As others have said, careful management is key. 

And he did still have an excellent life. I was able to get him to a point where he could hike, go to dog parks, etc. and he did just fine with people. In the home or the back of the truck was another story but we managed. 

Is he muzzle trained? That seems like a very easy solution to your current problem.


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## GSDLove (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes, he is muzzle trained, which I have used.

Thank you all for the replies. Lots to think about.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Woolf is FA. Not an easy life for him or me, but we are succeeding and pushing ahead. There have been slip ups. Mistakes I've learned from and moved on. I've taken my share of redirected bites. Those no longer happen and are simply called my battle scars now 

He is great with us, nothing but a cuddle bug. Now with strangers, still very stand offish but eventually warms up to the majority, and we understand which ones will set him off. Dogs...... <sigh> work in progress. 

He will always be a dog that has to be managed and allowed no decisions of his own. He has a good life. While we have had to change ours to work with his limits, we've benefited as well. Learning to work with him has brought to the front some flaws in myself that I am forced to work on.

There is one line that CM has used (others as well maybe) that I now fully agree with - 'You get the dog you need, not the dog you want'


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

GSDLove, I'm sorry I don't have anything to add as far as your original question goes. My first GSD was a notorious air snapper, and I'm forever grateful that he was able to convey his discomfort in this way, without taking things any further. If he hadn't, this would have been my heartbreaking decision as well.

Your case is entirely different, and you've put alot of effort into trying to modify the behavior. Only you know your dog. I'm sure there are many people who, if they could turn back the clock, would have chosen another path. If you feel that he is a danger, it's not even really a decision per se, it's making the right choice. 

In the end, we're all riddled with guilt anyway. If our dogs go during their sleep, we wonder if we could have caught something sooner. Sometimes we lose them during an operation, and we don't have a chance to say goodbye. We choose to end their time sooner, to spare them suffering, but we feel badly about that too. We love them so much, no wonder we just can't bear losing them, under any circumstances. I don't think you can avoid feeling that guilt, no matter what you choose to do.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm so sorry you are going through this. My GSD was dog aggressive. She was an only dog. We had a large yard and it was manageable, without being a hardship.

Aggressive to humans is another story. I understand others are willing to manage this and do a great job. They also readily admit that it isn't easy. I would not be willing to take on this type of dog. There are so many really great dogs out there - Dogs that don't need to be managed and can go places with you. 

It is entirely your decision to continue managing or to PTS. You need to do whatever is best for "YOU".


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## lostangl (Jul 15, 2002)

I also have a FA GSD. He was a rescue. We have learned to deal with it and don't put him into situations that set him off. I agree, either leave your dog at home or muzzle him when you are out. Good luck!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

First of all, I am NOT suggesting you put your dog down. 

But if this is about how to manage the guilt of putting a dog down, well, I can tell you my experience with Frodo. 

Frodo was my first GSD. The neighbors/landlords had this cute puppy out of their lab and something else, and I watched it be weaned and I wanted it, but was still in college, and wanted a GSD, and decided I should wait. I let it go. Then my friend at work's GSD had puppies. I had 1-2 quarters left before finishing my degree. I wanted that dog so bad. She asked me several times. Finally, I asked my landlord, they said ok, and I went to work the next day to tell her, and she told me they were all spoken for. 

Instead of deciding it wasn't meant to be at this point, I got out the newspaper, and 24 hours later and one hundred and fifty dollars poorer, I was the proud owner of Frodo, a ten week old AKC German Shepherd puppy that I had waited for for 18 years. He was almost all black, turned out to be a bi-color. His ears never stood. Everyone asked what my lab was mixed with. He was mixed all right, but all GSD. He was every bad thing from American and German Showlines, and German working lines. But, I loved him. I did everything in the book wrong with him. I didn't have the time or the money or the experience to handle him. I created a monster.

The monster shattered his leg at 18 months old, and I did not have the money to put a rod in it. I should have had them amputate it, but, well, he was able to use it after a fashion, as it did heal, but it caused him pain for the rest of his life. He would hold it up when it was damp or cold, and when he ran, it flew out wildly. Besides its pain, it is significant because this very energetic dog really could not be walked or run to release energy, and formal training really wasn't an option, and back then I did not know about most of this stuff, and did not know of GSD communities that would help people work with their dogs.

When he was about 2, I let my friend show the dog to his babies -- about 2 and 3. Frodo growled low in his throat and stood stiff. I put him back in his crate (after the leg was shattered, crates weren't such a terrible thing). I labeled him "not good with kids", and that was the end of that. 

As the years marched onward. I learned a lot from Frodo, much more than I would have ever learned from a dog with a stable temperament. I could take him to my parents, but they really did not like him. My sister loved him, but he was a bit scary with her too. He really wasn't a problem at the vets. I had taught him the boundaries of the yard when I moved, and he would generally stay within them. If he didn't I got his leash and walked the boundaries, jerking him when he stepped across. He would growl at me. 

My sister once saw him in the kennel and offered a kissy noise to him, and he attacked the kennel fence like he would kill her. I would use harsh commands, compulsion, and yelling at him to get him to do what I wanted, and my younger GSD, did not like that at all. 

One day he bullied the girl, and refused to let her eat, and stormed over there, grabbed him, yelling and went to put him in a crate. He bit me. Looking backwards, I deserved it. He grabbed my hand first, and I about blew my stack, and then he closed in on my hand, it caused blood on three fingers. But he could have done real damage if he wanted to. It was not a bad bite. I got a much worse bite years later putting my hand into the middle of a dog fight. But at the time, Frodo was seven, and I was his only owner, and I fed him, and the idea that he would bite me, actually scared me. 

I thought about the kids next door. One day the boy told me he had to climb a tree to get away from Frodo. I thought about my sister, who Frodo acted like he would kill. I thought about some other close calls, like the little girls. I thought about how he would growl at me when I showed him the boundaries. I thought about how he always held his leg up and was in pain. I talked it over with my folks and the vet. The vet suggested I might try some behavior modification. But I made up my mind to put him down. 

I am not proud of that. Frodo would have been a good dog with a good owner. You might not be in that position. I did not do everything in my power, as I let myself be afraid of him, and I let myself be afraid of the liability in the event that he bit someone else. I was there when they put him down, I held him. It was hard, but at the time I thought I was doing the right thing. And perhaps, it was the right thing. But I learned a lot from him. 

I have made sure that my other dogs have gone through training. I don't let my puppies destroy my stuff and then go berzerk about it now. I do not chain them outside after I have finally had it after he ate the couch. I am not afraid of any of them, I have full confidence that none of them will ever bite me deliberately, without something extraordinary going on. I have suffered serious bites on a few occasions when there were fights, and realize what worm-bites he actually did. But I am not afraid. I understand about socializing and training now. I have fences and kennels, and I don't let them get loose and chase neighbor children up trees. I don't expect my dogs to have human attributes and morals now, and respect them as canines, and love them as canines. 

All of my dogs have been different since Frodo. The Lord of the Rings was my favorite book, and Frodo was brave and loyal and good, and that is what I expected of my Frodo. I did not expect a dog who was disobedient, stubborn, energetic, aggressive, and irritable. I was very disappointed with Frodo, with his physical looks, his temperament, his injury and inability to really do anything with him. I had an ideal of a dog that I certainly did not have. 

Since Frodo, I have raised 14 GSDs, 15 if you add Odie who I got as an adult. 16 if you add Jazzy who I took care of for 2 years for my brother, and she was crazy enough to get an honerable mention. And I have never had another dog with the problems that Frodo had, at least in part because I used what he taught me. I learned to train and bond with the dog, and figure out who they are and what they are good with, what they need work on, what they like, what makes them tick. 

If I had a ten week old Frodo today, I know that the outcome would be different. I have worked with a couple of dogs that others had trouble with, and have had no trouble managing them, and making progress with them. 

Personally, I don't think guilt is very helpful. If you let yourself wallow in guilt about a decision like this, you will not grow. I think that I failed Frodo, but I have turned that failure to good in some ways. It doesn't bring Frodo back. But Frodo's life was not hideous, nor was his death. I loved him. I cared for him. He lived in my house, and he ran in my yard, he played with toys, and got treats, he slept in my bed. 

This was Frodo: All of my dogs teach me about dogs, but he taught me the most:


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

I've made the decision to put a dog down due to aggression issues. It was a 6ish year old bullmastiff/rottie/lab type mix. Pound dog with no history. Came in nearly dead. I was working at a in home rescue when he came in. I worked with him for 6 months there, then owned him for 6 months. He made tremendous progress in that year but he was unpredictable. There were 3 people in his life he could be trusted with. A few family members he was fine with 90% of the time but would lunge to attack randomly every once in a while. And one family member he would want to kill every time he saw her. With training, he went from an out of control, lunging animal to a dog who could do a downstay in the presence of a 'threat'. IMO this did not make him safe. I did not live in a situation where I could make it safe for him. Never ever was he aggressive with me. So to have someone that lives in the house, that he sees daily and has never caused him harm but he still wants to kill them. Yes we could sit in the same room together and he would not lunge. He could be relaxed and have a snooze at my feet. But he would always watch her out of the corner of his eye. All it would take was one mistake for him to attack. He was also like this with other animals and when he did make contact it was to kill - no little nip.
The way I looked at it was: I know sooner or later this dog is going to make contact with someone. He is serious when he gets it into his mind to attack. Do I wait for an accident to happen and have to put him down under bad and stressful circumstances or do I be proactive about it and do something now? He had the best year of his life with me, learned to be a housepet and be loved. Learned to have a dog friend. Slept on a bed, made friends. So I made the decision to euthanize him. It was so hard, this was 6 years ago and I still cannot look at a picture of him without crying. I still feel so guilty. But I imagine I would feel even worse if I hadn't put him down, he did attack someone and I had to deal with a court order to have him destroyed. 
That being said I have a dog right now that I could think the same thing of. He has made contact with one person. But I feel I am in a better living situation to keep him safe, he has no other option of where to live and we just strongly manage him. There is differences in the types of aggression between the dog I had pts and the dog I have now, but similar situation. But this dog will live out his life with me.
It is a hard decision and not one to be taken lightly but euthanasia sometimes is the kindest answer.
RIP Chedda'


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