# Finding a Breeder



## lechampion (Dec 2, 2013)

I'm starting to look for a puppy, possibly a female with full papers. Can anyone recommend a good breeder. My first choice would be in Northern California but I'm willing to look anywhere in the US for the right one. 
I do like the SL with their great temperaments but not their extreme angles behind. I also like the WL for their drive. So if anyone knows a breeder that might have puppy’s like that in the near future, maybe next year I would appreciate any and all information. You can always PM me if you prefer not to post here. Thank you so much for your help!


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

What do you plan to do with the puppy once you have it? Is the puppy going to be purely pet, or do you plan to do a sport or showing? That will help us give you better recommendations


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## lechampion (Dec 2, 2013)

I'd like to do some herding trials and maybe a little showing. I am very open to getting a professional opinion on the best avenue for the new puppy. Currently I have a 8 year old bitch that is just a pet.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Make sure you take hours to go thru ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html BEFORE you call anyone up and decide. The best breeders won't even consider us unless we have some knowledge about the breed and they can tell during a short phone conversation.

Wander around this forum also. Look at all our brags and photos. Many of us have information/links about our pups in our signature lines. And you can also PM us for more info when you like the looks/temperament.


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## lechampion (Dec 2, 2013)

Thank you for your advice, I will look at that.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

If you are wanting to do herding and possibly showing (this would be the German Show ring, not AKC), you might want to look into anyone breeding Kirschental lines - that would be Alta-Tollhaus (my friend is herding with a dog from there) or Traumhof (I have no input on their dogs or them or their breeding program, but I do own a Sherry vom Kirschental grandkid and Sherry is now their dog). 

I am herding with my pup in Nor Cal too  I also herded with my older female and her brother (who passed away) and they are from Grunenfeld in San Diego. There is another member here herding with a pup from that kennel as well.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

mspiker03 said:


> If you are wanting to do herding and possibly showing (this would be the German Show ring, not AKC), you might want to look into anyone breeding Kirschental lines - that would be Alta-Tollhaus (my friend is herding with a dog from there) or Traumhof (I have no input on their dogs or them or their breeding program, but I do own a Sherry vom Kirschental grandkid and Sherry is now their dog).
> 
> I am herding with my pup in Nor Cal too  I also herded with my older female and her brother (who passed away) and they are from Grunenfeld in San Diego. There is another member here herding with a pup from that kennel as well.


I looked at the Traumhof kennel (next state to me) and one thing made me a bit concerned - they list 19 females(!!!) and 6 males. That seems like a production line to me, but I would like to hear other people's opinion before jumping to any conclusion.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Here is an article I wrote on how to select a good, reputable breeder:

How to Select a Breeder - German Shepherd Guide


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

The number of dogs a person has does not denote how good of a breeder they are (or are not). There are people with only two dogs that are crappy breeders, and people with a dozen that are great.

Also, just because they LIST 25 dogs does not mean all those dogs LIVE with them. Some of the dogs listed may be retired, or passed on, some may be co owned and live elsewhere.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Xeph said:


> The number of dogs a person has does not denote how good of a breeder they are (or are not). There are people with only two dogs that are crappy breeders, and people with a dozen that are great.
> 
> Also, just because they LIST 25 dogs does not mean all those dogs LIVE with them. Some of the dogs listed may be retired, or passed on, some may be co owned and live elsewhere.


Oh I don't know. If there are 24 hours in a day, 8 spent sleeping. That means 16 hours a day to spend with dogs. If they don't work outside the home. So if a breeder has 25 dogs, 8 of which do not live with them, they have 17 dogs to excersise, train, socialize, be with in 16 hours. That's less than 1 hour, per dog per day. I don't like that. This is contingent on their dogs being the ONLY thing they do, no eating, no shower, no training clubs, no giving obedience lessons. Just does not seem like enough time. 

I guess if they have staff, and the staff excersised the dogs. I don't know. It would be a turn off to me as well. 

That said. There are plenty if breeders with 2 dogs that turn me off as well. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

alexg said:


> I looked at the Traumhof kennel (next state to me) and one thing made me a bit concerned - they list 19 females(!!!) and 6 males. That seems like a production line to me, but I would like to hear other people's opinion before jumping to any conclusion.


Like I said, I have no knowledge of the breeder and it wasn't my intention to start a "how many dogs should a breeder own" discussion. I mentioned them because they have Sherry (and other Kirschental females) and if someone (like the OP) wanted a herding dog, I would certainly look at them.


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## Markobytes (Sep 11, 2012)

A well bred West German Conformation Line will have more than enough drive for the average owner, enough to do IPO or herding and are not as angulated in the rear as an ASL due to the AKC's interpretation of the breed standard. A well bred working line will have a good temperament, the secret of of any line is getting it from a person that knows what they are doing and is honest. There are a lot of breeders that don't recognize poor temperaments when they see them and they will breed two dogs together that don't compliment each other and in fact magnify the bad temperaments.


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## Markobytes (Sep 11, 2012)

Good post Zeph, one advantage that the larger kennels have is they can more easily remove a dog from their breeding program if they see a problem, smaller hobby breeders will sometimes be too emotionally and financially attached and may be unwilling to stop the cash flow even if it means breeding problem dogs. A larger kennel will often have volunteers as well as paid staff and multiple trainers and facilities for training and conditioning. The owners of larger kennels will often have the knowledge and experience that comes with doing the job full time for many years.But beware of puppy mills of any size.


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