# "Bad" behavior all of a sudden?



## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

Quick background, we got Ali about a month ago now. She's been the best sweetest dog I could ever ask for. She's 18 months, on the smaller side at 55 pounds. Listens great and just an overall amazing addition to the family!

A few days ago I walked in the front door and found her on the couch jumping up at me all excited to see me as usual. Well I've never seen her on the couch before and don't want her on there, and it totally caught me off guard. So I grabbed her and yelled at her a bit, more than Ive ever done. She instantly crouched down on the couch knowing she did soemthing wrong and when I pulled her off I saw she had peed a big puddle on my couch. That just infuriated me more so I yelled more and threw her on to her bed where she laid there shaking pretty bad. Anyway it kills me to discpline her but I dont want her on the couch and I've read if you're going to yell at a dog you need to do it while they're in the act so they can put 2 and 2 together. 

Anyway, the next day I walked in and she was on the couch! She instantly crouched down, ears down, tail down all low, ON THE COUCH, as if she KNEW she was doing bad! Well I didnt want to clean up a pile of pee again so I didnt yell, I just called her off the couch, without any idea what to do!

Well today I came home after being gone for 8 hours but I came in the side door from the garage. She greets me at the door but instantly crouches down all low, shaking, and pees right on my floor! I'm 90% sure she was on the couch cause the blanket was knocked off the back of it (it MIGHT have been the cat, but I doubt it).

Now a few things have changed. First and foremost, she was spayed a little over a week ago. And a few days before that my fiance brought her cat into the house. She seems to just be overall more timid around me lately. When I call her she comes to me as if she's in trouble. 

Any ideas? I love her more than anything but I dont want her constantly acting like a wuss when I call her, and I definitely dont want her on the couch, especially since she seems to understand its bad. Please help!


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## DellaDog (Jan 16, 2011)

*not right*

I am sorry to say this, but you have caused the problem to escalate. I agree that if you don't want the dog on the couch, it shouldn't, but you should never discipline your dog the way you described. The problem you have now is your dog fears you and you will have to work on this quickly before it gets worse. Treat her with respect by not yelling and never being physical like throwing her on the bed. Discipline with firm tones, and if you must a tap on the butt with the firm NO. For now I would go out of your way to love on the dog, speak gentle, and reach towards it slowly so she knows she is not being hit and hopefully she will not crouch or pee. Some of this may just be my opinion, but it also comes from the experience of owning a abused/neglected rescue, so sorry if some of it came out wrong or if I insulted you, that was not my intention.


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## 1sttimeforgsd (Jul 29, 2010)

If you are going to be gone for an extended period of time you should put her in a room that she can be confined in like a bathroom or utility room so that she does not have full run of the house. If not a room then maybe you should put her in a large crate.

The reason she is cowering down to you is because of your reaction to her for being on the couch. The reason she peed is because you screamed at her and manhandled her and she did it out of fear. So now every time you come home she thinks back to the experience of that day and that is why she is being sulky.

It is just my opinion and I am no way an expert on anything gsd for I am learning also, but I think she would be better off confined when you are not home.


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## BOHICA Bay (Jan 26, 2011)

Well, now you have even bigger issues to deal with than a dog who gets on the couch. Honestly, I'd put that issue on the back burner and address the much larger and more serious issues you have facing you which is the fact that you have created a very unstable, fearful situation for your dog. 
Her reaction the second time wasn't a sign that she understands that being on the couch is bad - it is a sign that she associates being on the couch in front of you as bringing violence -- she is reacting fearfully to the anticipation of you becoming violent to her again, not to being on the couch.
If you don't want her on the couch, confine her when you aren't home. 
Overall, you need to work on YOUR impulse control before you can even begin to think of trying to teach her the same.


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

Wow I feel like such a terrible person now! I honestly felt awful afterwards, it just caught me off guard and I yelled before I really thought about it. I didnt hit her or anything, just yelled at pulled her towards her bed with her collar. Poor girl, she really is a great dog! I definitely see what you're all saying now though, maybe she associates me "coming home" with "being yelled at" more than "being on the couch = being yelled at". Ugh this is awful, I hope I can fix this....

Will just being overly nice with her when I first come home fix it over time?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Blstr88 said:


> A few days ago I walked in the front door and found her on the couch jumping up at me all excited to see me as usual. Well I've never seen her on the couch before and don't want her on there, and it totally caught me off guard. So I grabbed her and yelled at her a bit, more than Ive ever done. She instantly crouched down on the couch knowing she did soemthing wrong and when I pulled her off I saw she had peed a big puddle on my couch. That just infuriated me more so I yelled more and threw her on to her bed where she laid there shaking pretty bad.


Are you serious? Your reaction to her being on the couch (have you ever trained her _not_ to get on the couch?) was totally over the top which obviously scared her badly, hence the submissive urination. 

Look at it from her point of view: You come home, she's happy and excited to see you and suddenly you grab her and start yelling at her. Her reaction the second day when you came home and she's on the couch again did not mean that she "KNEW she was doing bad", it was because she was anticipating you coming home and flipping out again, like you did the day before. 

Yelling at a dog, especially for doing something they've never been trained not to do, shouldn't be done, period. No wonder she comes to you as if she's in trouble! Poor girl is associating the punishment with YOU, not with being on the couch. 

How about you confine her - crate? x-pen? dog proof room?, so she can't get on the couch when you're gone, and in the meantime train her not to get on the couch when you're there. But know that even if she's perfect when you're around that doesn't mean she will never get up there again when you're gone. If it's that important to you, you need to make sure that she can't.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Blstr88 said:


> Will just being overly nice with her when I first come home fix it over time?


Being "overly nice" (what does that even MEAN?!?!) won't teach her not to get on the couch when you're gone any more than yelling at her will. Be calm and matter of fact. Teach her an "off" command, and practice it in a variety of situations. Leaders don't rant and rave, scream and shout - they don't have to.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Another thought - if you've got a really nice couch and don't want her to ruin it (and I get that, I've got nice furniture too), in addition to teaching her to get off you could also just cover the couch with something during the day when you're gone so if she does get up there she won't damage the fabric. 

Confining her when you're not around would be the best option IMO, but this would be a reasonable alternative if you don't want to do that. It's not that hard to train dogs what to do and what not to do _in our presence_, but it can be very difficult to teach them to behave a certain way when we're not there. Pick your battles!


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

I know I screwed up guys, thats why Im here asking for advice! Shes a great dog and I made a mistake.

The couch isnt even the issue Im concerned about as much anymore, I just want to get past this fear first and then I'll move on to other things. I did crate her the first few weeks I had her but then slowly started leaving her out as I left the house and she's done wonderfully, never touches anything that isnt a toy. I'll start keeping her a bit more confined when I leave for longer stretches though.

But as for the "fear" part, anything in particular? It seems to only be when I initially come home, she doesnt exhibit signs of it when Im home with her for hours at a time and she's still her normal playful self when we're outside in the snow. 

Like I said, I know I messed up or else I wouldnt be asking for advice, just looking for what to do now. Thanks guys!


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## westallkennel (Feb 3, 2011)

There is a difference between disapline and punishment. What you did was a very harsh punishment. She did not understand that you don't want her on the couch. Dogs are not mind readers. All she under stands is is that she was on the couch and you attacked her. She now pees because she asking you not to hurt her. It is submission peeing. It is going to take a lot on your part to regain her trust in you. From now on if you are angry walk away until you can control yourself. Disapline must never be done with anger. When you come home do not pay any attention to her, put your things away and go sit in your usual spot and let her come to you quitely,this way it is her choice to come to you, keep everything low keyed for now soon she will trust you again. Next is to teach her not to get on the couch. Do this by when she gets on the couch tell her OFF (not down, down means to lay down, off means four feet on the floor) Since she is now afraid and to keep her from peeing throw a treat or toy on the floor, when she gets off the couch to get the treat praise her. Good Girl in a happy voice. If she does not get off the couch gently reach for her collar and guide her off, then praise her for being on the floor. Soon she will get the idea that you do not want her on the couch and will stay off. Untill then put her in a crate when your are gone. Many people don't like the idea of crates I put it to you this way. You would not leave a baby in a roon by its self unless you had it in a crib or play pen. a crate is your dogs crib. I have 11 dogs and they love their crates and will go into them when they want quite time. Good luck and keep your cool.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

First thing is, you can never yell at your dog again, ever.....EVER! What's the point. When you yell at your dog it starts thinking you are unstable, crazy and unpredictable. 

Second...your dog doesn't know she's not supposed to be on the sofa. I'll get to that later. 

Most importantly, you have to reestablish yourself as a fair leader, and help her stop her submissive urination. When you come home from work, totally ignore her, put your things away, let her outside. When she potties outside, tell her "good girl" and give her a kiss. Okay, you don't have to give her a kiss, but praise her. Being overly nice is not being a leader. Dogs worry about this, too. The submissive dogs are the nice ones. Leaders don't suck up to subordinates, so be kind, but not overly gushy. You don't want her worrying about your leadership qualities in this way, also. She'll be one messed up dog. Dogs want to follow and you need to demonstrate that you are a good person to follow.

You will never be able to teach her to stay off the sofa when you are not home. She's not stupid. But you can easily teach her to stay off the sofa when you ARE home. If she gets on the sofa, gently take her collar, say "get off", and lead her down. Then say "Good girl" and praise. You don't punish for the deed, you praise for change. Keep that in mind when you are training anything. 

Also, once you let her on the sofa, just once, that's it. She'll never understand if she's supposed to be on the sofa or off the sofa. 

Hope this helps.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

We've had GSDs since 1986 and we don't allow our dogs on the couch either. You can see how well that's worked out since we got Halo:










At least he INVITED her up there, lol! 

I agree with westallkennel, teaching her "off" by throwing a treat or toy is a good idea, especially now that she's fearful when you come home. Even reaching for her collar to pull her off might be too much at this point. 

And try to remember that she's only doing it because it's a nice soft comfortable place to be and she doesn't understand that she's not supposed to be there - maybe that will help you control your anger and show you what areas need further training.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Ahh geez...

Guess you can see from the above posts that it wasn't the right way to go, but looking ahead, you need to be patient and consistent.

18 months old? 

Makes is a bit harder since you may not know her history. She may have legitimately formed some behavior you'll have to slowly modify.

She won't understand you 'feeling badly,' or trying to make up to her. In a dog's case L O V E is an action verb. 

Feeding, fairness and learning one step at a time with lots of praise for correct behavior and no consequences for something she hasn't proven she knows.. repetition, repetition, repetition.

My guess is that after a month she was just beginning to feel 'at home' and trusting.

Find ways for her to succeed and reinforce with calm praise and a treat or two.

Show her she can trust you.


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

Thanks guys. She has never even TRIED to get on the couch while I am home. She seems to totally understand she isnt allowed on it. Like I said though, the couch is the least of my worries now! I'll begin to crate her again when Im gone, she's got a nice crate and likes it anywhere even when I dont tell her to get in, so thats not an issue.

Her being afraid of me is what Im more worried about now. I'll do what you said above though, about ignoring her when I first walk in, etc etc. I feel terrible about the whole thing I really do, she's a super sweet dog.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Dogs are kind of situational thinkers. It may be that she "knows" to stay off the couch when you are home because your presence is an essential part of the equation--owner, couch==no dog on couch. When you aren't home there is no deterrent to lay on the comfy couch.

When people say that their dog acted "guilty", it usually means that the dog is scared. For instance, when my guys were young, one would raid the garbage. When I'd come home I'd yell and both would cower. Eventually we realized that only one dog was responsible for the mess but garbage on the floor plus owner equals bad things for dogs. I got a better garbage can.

Just be calm. Crate her again and keep your greetings low-key and away from the couch.


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

It makes sense what you're all saying. If I could go back in time I would have handled it differently but unfortunately I cant. As far as the couch thing goes its tough because she never goes near it when Im home, so how do I teach her not to do it when Im gone? I'm not there to tell her no haha. I'll start crating her when I leave for now though, she does great in the crate anyway so that will solve that problem.


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Our lab is the same way... We got her at 3 and don't know a lot of her history... Every once in a while she'll start shaking if I raise my voice (not even at her) or drop something. We've had her for about 2 years now and she's totally changed form when we first got her, she's come out of her shell I guess, but I don't think the random skiing will ever stop. 
For the first year we had her, I was convinced she was de-barked... Then one day she just started barking at the door. We've trained her to come 99% of the time but every once in a while I say it "wrong" and she runs the other way with her tail between her legs... I've just learned to ignore it and move on until she comes back to me which seems to work the best.


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## xenos56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Neither of our dogs have ever been on the couch, nor have they ever tried. Fortunate about this, but we have a host of other issues lol. To yell and grab your dog is just... horrible. What's worse, is that you didn't even recognize you were wrong enough not to post it here to publicize it. Not to mention, having a GSD cower like that must have been pretty harsh. Really, if the worst your pup does is get on the coach, then how will you act when he/she does something more serious? The trust between you and your pup is crucial and you may have just nixed it


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Xenos56 -
I think that was an unnecessary post!

The OP has said they were wrong and is trying to learn.

The very fact the post was made shows Blstr88 really didn't know the extent of the wrong.

Don't you think it's better to help than to blame?


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## xenos56 (Jan 30, 2011)

I think the image of the dog cowering resulted in my reply. Losing one's temper once, twice, is a snippet of other issues in the home. 1. She grabbed the dog and yelled to the point where he/she cowered. 2. She grabbed the dog and threw him/her on the bed while yelling. If she can go to this extent over the dog sitting on the couch, then what will she do when the dog ruins a shoe? Eats out of the trash? Am I the only one who finds it offensive and worrying to read that someone has physically picked up a young dog and threw him/her on the bed while shouting? 

Look, I am not upset about your reply zyppi, because I understand where you're coming from. I really do. It's just a bit worrying to read a post where an animal is obviously abused (the least abuse is abuse, no matter the level). Surely you can see why I had to say something here.

Even if she understands her wrongs now it doesn't take away the anger issue. Maybe I'm just too laid back with our dogs, but I cannot relate to this extreme.


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## xenos56 (Jan 30, 2011)

PS the dog is now timid near the OP, and the OP called the dog a wuss. Red flags.


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

Let me clarify here, I did not physically pick her up and THROW her into her bed. I took her collar and led her over to it. There was no PHYSICAL discipline involved. She's a relatively timid dog as it is, so all it took was me yelling to get her to cower and shake. 

I walked in after a long day and got greeted with her on my $3000 couch, never before seeing her on it. I over-reacted and I've clearly acknowledged that I did and posted this here for advice on where to go from here. I know I was wrong, and to be honest it amazes me how many people have pretty much said "theres no going back from here, she's ruined for life". I cant believe how far this dog has come in 4 weeks and I wont take "no going back from here" as an option at all.

I do NOT abuse her, I took her from a breeder with god knows how many dogs into a beautiful cabin in New Hampshire with a ton of room to run and play, and with 2 loving owners who feed and care for her the best we can. I DID overreact and Im acknowledging that here, and hoping to get some advice on how to move on past this. She's 18 months old, are you honestly trying to tell me that for the next 10+ years she'll be like this? Umm no, she wont. I learned my lesson and won't make the same mistake I did and want to continue training with her to make her the best dog she can be.

For all of you who actually gave me constructive responses I truly appreciate it. To those of you who just try to tell me Im a terrible person - I understand where you're coming from...I would be just as angry with someone who abuses dogs too but I promise I am NOT an abusive owner! I somehow doubt abusive owners come to dog forums to ask for advice. 

Thanks again to anyone who offered advice, I'm taking it all very seriously and will continue to practice good training with Ali!


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

In my experience with both people in abusive relationships (victims and abusers) it is the norm to "hide" the abuse, not get on a public forum and admit a mistake and ask for help. 
Especially in a forum like this where some people are quick to judge and make harsh or cutting comments. (A generalization, not directed at any one specific)

I beleive the OP generally feels bad about what happened and is trying to make things right and fix the problem. IMHO, if the OP was a serial abuser, they would just ignore the problem or get rid of the dog. In a lot of cases, the fear and dominance is what the abuser is looking for.

Is it right to be concerned........yes. Is it right to judge or attack the OP, I don't think so.

To keep from being judged here, I'll say that I have 25 years experience in law enforcement in both patrol and supervision. I have received well over 200 hours of training in domestic abuse dynamics and intervention. I have even received training about children from an abusive relationship and have attended a 4 hour seminar about animals that live in an environment of ongoing domestic/family abuse.

Without having personally witnessed the surroundings and any interaction between the OP and their dog, no one can make a judgement about the environment, but their actions by coming here and admitting a mistake and asking for help do not fit any pattern of abuse that I'm aware of.


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

Wow I really didnt think this would turn into people accusing me of being abusive! Has nobody ever just gotten frustrated and yelled at their dog? After reading all this I re-read my original post and I may have worded it a bit wrong. I promise there was no ABUSE at all. I simply got frustrated after a long day and yelled at her, then after she peed on my couch got more mad and yelled some more. About 30 seconds after it happened I completely regretted it, but theres no taking it back and you cant really just apologize to a dog...which is why Im here asking for what I CAN do now.

I promise I do NOT beat my dog, I love her a ton and only want the best for her. As some of you have mentioned I would NOT have posted this on a public forum if I was trying to beat or abuse her.

Anyway it kills me to read accusations of abuse here, so please only post again if you have legitimate advice on particular things I can do in the next few weeks/months to move past it.


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## xenos56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Blstr88 said:


> That just infuriated me more so I yelled more and threw her on to her bed where she laid there shaking pretty bad.


Why would you ever get to the point where your dog would be "shaking pretty bad." And let's be clear, I am not judging you - I am judging the very words you posted here. If you find me at fault for defending a dog, then what else can I say.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

I think you've gotten some great advice here and you have a handle on correcting the problem and it sounds like you're already taking some steps.

Keep on working with the dog and I'm sure you'll be able to correct any damage. A lot of people here have adopted dogs with the same type of problems and they can be overcome with hard work.


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## Blstr88 (Dec 30, 2010)

Well every dog is different of course. She "shakes pretty bad" when my fiances cat walks by...it isnt like I yelled at her for 3 minutes straight, the entire thing happened over a few seconds and she was shaking. As soon as I saw that I knew I went over the top. 

I see where you're coming from really and its completely understandable, and although Ill never meet you in real life and don't care really what you think - believe me when I say this is NOT a case of abuse and your concerns are noted. I should probably have worded the original post a bit differently to make it sound less like abuse and more like a particular dog that reacted badly to scolding. Im sure there are lots of dogs that would have just moved on and not let a yelling bother them but unfortunately Ali has reacted negatively to it - therefore Im on a forum asking if anyone knows if theres specific ways to move past it.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I've read all your posts on this thread and I don't think you're abusing your dog, nor do I think she's now ruined forever. You will need to earn back her trust, but I think you can, and it's clear that you want to. You haven't had her very long so you're still getting to know each other and developing a relationship. She may be a sensitive girl too, who will always need a softer hand. I'd keep training positive and motivational by focusing on what she's doing right (sometimes that will require managing her environment to maximize success and minimize failure, such as confining her to keep her off the couch when you're gone) rather than correcting her for doing something wrong. 

Learning to look at situations from the dog's viewpoint often requires a major shift in thinking as it just doesn't come naturally to us humans. WE know exactly what we mean, and we don't always realize that the dog doesn't too, (it's obvious, how can they not?!?! :thinking so we assign motives to their behavior - they're being stubborn or defying us, rather than recognizing that they don't understand what we expect from them and are confused. We don't realize that what we think we're teaching is not always what the dog is learning, as you discovered with the couch incident - you knew you were mad because she was on the couch, but she just knew you were mad when you came home, not what she did that caused your anger, and that frightened her. 

A great book for learning how to think like a dog is Jean Donaldson's The Culture Clash. Not really a "how to" book, but it will help you understand things from your dog's perspective, which is very useful in training. 

Amazon.com: The Culture Clash: A Revolutionary New Way to Understanding the Relationship Between Humans and Domestic Dogs (9781888047059): Jean Donaldson: Books


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## smdaigle (Mar 14, 2008)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I've read all your posts on this thread and I don't think you're abusing your dog, nor do I think she's now ruined forever. You will need to earn back her trust, but I think you can, and it's clear that you want to. You haven't had her very long so you're still getting to know each other and developing a relationship. She may be a sensitive girl too, who will always need a softer hand. I'd keep training positive and motivational by focusing on what she's doing right (sometimes that will require managing her environment to maximize success and minimize failure, such as confining her to keep her off the couch when you're gone) rather than correcting her for doing something wrong.


I am far from being an expert here but I absolutely agree with Debbie on this. Our Rennie is a very sensitive girl and her reaction to a mild scolding would make you think she'd just been beaten. Regardless, she always gets over it and we continue with as much positive reinforcement as we can. I think your dog will be fine - just keep working at it. Coming here to ask for help is a very positive step in working through the problem!

I've been converted into looking at each situation from the perspective of what did I do or can I do to avoid a problem or get success instead of just hoping the dog will do everything I want and not do things I don't want. By slowly evolving my thinking that way I think I've had more success with training my dogs (and better experiences with them as housemates!).



Cassidy's Mom said:


> Learning to look at situations from the dog's viewpoint often requires a major shift in thinking as it just doesn't come naturally to us humans. WE know exactly what we mean, and we don't always realize that the dog doesn't too, (it's obvious, how can they not?!?! :thinking so we assign motives to their behavior - they're being stubborn or defying us, rather than recognizing that they don't understand what we expect from them and are confused. We don't realize that what we think we're teaching is not always what the dog is learning, as you discovered with the couch incident - you knew you were mad because she was on the couch, but she just knew you were mad when you came home, not what she did that caused your anger, and that frightened her.


Wow, I never thought about it like that. Very interesting!



Cassidy's Mom said:


> A great book for learning how to think like a dog is Jean Donaldson's The Culture Clash. Not really a "how to" book, but it will help you understand things from your dog's perspective, which is very useful in training.
> 
> Amazon.com: The Culture Clash: A Revolutionary New Way to Understanding the Relationship Between Humans and Domestic Dogs (9781888047059): Jean Donaldson: Books


I may need to look for this one too!


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## xenos56 (Jan 30, 2011)

Blstr88 said:


> Well every dog is different of course. She "shakes pretty bad" when my fiances cat walks by...it isnt like I yelled at her for 3 minutes straight, the entire thing happened over a few seconds and she was shaking. As soon as I saw that I knew I went over the top.
> 
> I see where you're coming from really and its completely understandable, and although Ill never meet you in real life and don't care really what you think - believe me when I say this is NOT a case of abuse and your concerns are noted. I should probably have worded the original post a bit differently to make it sound less like abuse and more like a particular dog that reacted badly to scolding. Im sure there are lots of dogs that would have just moved on and not let a yelling bother them but unfortunately Ali has reacted negatively to it - therefore Im on a forum asking if anyone knows if theres specific ways to move past it.


Thank you for being specific, it helps see things more clearly. I think the grabbing and throwing sparked things off. I know expression in text can be misconstrued and lost. Thank you for understanding why I would have reacted as I did - and yes, we will never meet in person, but you handled it well, so I appreciate it.

Back to why you're here. GSDs go through fear stages, and the final one typically surfaces around 18 months. Some might say your pup is "soft" or whatever sad term people like to use to describe more timid, skittish temperaments. You will need to examine if your pup had a history or being shy or nervous, if she has, then her extreme reaction may be due to genetics. Of course, yelling or grabbing any dog is wrong to begin with, but their actual temperament dictates how well they handle a stressful moment/situation. Most GSDs are fearless, but nowadays are bred so poorly that skittish behavior is common.

Can you offer some insight on what her temperament is normally like? Did you obtain her through a breeder or shelter (if shelter, what did they tell you about her history, if any?).


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I honestly think there are too many "old school" people in the world that still believe intimidation tactics work with dogs or any animal for that fact. Its the same idea of sticking a pup's nose in it's pee or poop. Years ago I thought that was what you are supposed to do, until Apache's breeder ripped me a new you know what. I had no idea how bad that was. So in the last 8 years I have learned so much about training and dealing with behavioral issues. I made a lot of mistakes before I became "enlightened" about positive training. At least this woman is seeking the proper way to deal with this. 
Lakota has a brother who's owner has instilled such fear in him its really sad. And when he says something to me like "he knows he was bad, when I came home he ran and hid" DUH!!!!! It truely makes my blood boil. But I can't bash him, I can make suggestions and hope he listens. I have learned that being confrontational to people doesn't get results, specially when it comes to training dogs. 
Good luck with your dog, you should be fine just give it time and lots of kindness.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I've read all your posts on this thread and I don't think you're abusing your dog, nor do I think she's now ruined forever. You will need to earn back her trust, but I think you can, and it's clear that you want to. You haven't had her very long so you're still getting to know each other and developing a relationship. She may be a sensitive girl too, who will always need a softer hand. I'd keep training positive and motivational by focusing on what she's doing right (sometimes that will require managing her environment to maximize success and minimize failure, such as confining her to keep her off the couch when you're gone) rather than correcting her for doing something wrong.
> 
> Learning to look at situations from the dog's viewpoint often requires a major shift in thinking as it just doesn't come naturally to us humans. WE know exactly what we mean, and we don't always realize that the dog doesn't too, (it's obvious, how can they not?!?! :thinking so we assign motives to their behavior - they're being stubborn or defying us, rather than recognizing that they don't understand what we expect from them and are confused. We don't realize that what we think we're teaching is not always what the dog is learning, as you discovered with the couch incident - you knew you were mad because she was on the couch, but she just knew you were mad when you came home, not what she did that caused your anger, and that frightened her.
> 
> ...


It's funny you mention that book. My wife just picked it up on Monday and is reading it. I get it next.

I also use the example of teething puppies when people get upset about that. Puppies aren't chewing your shoes (or tv remote, or couch or whatever) to be "bad". Their face hurts and chewing helps releive the discomfort. It's up to the human to provide safe things to chew on and to make sure to keep everything "unsafe" away from the puppy. Teething puppies are the human equivalent of young kids. You know, as soon as you tell them something is off limits, you know that's the first place they're gonna head for when your back is turned.

I spoke with a good friend of mine earlier this morning and he said that he has fostered very fearful dogs that have peed of you come in a room too fast. They can be worked with to deal with the problem.
According to him, it takes lots of treats/time and patience.

If I came across last night as thinking you abused your dog, I didn't mean that. I meant to come across as being on your side and trying to explain why I didn't think that was the case.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I read Culture Clash many years ago, probably back when we had Cassidy, and I remember it being a revelation in many ways. What I've discovered is that the more I can try to put myself in the dog's shoes (paws? ) the easier it becomes, to where it's almost second nature now. Like I said, it's just a shift in thinking - would you know what you mean if you didn't already know what you mean? Is it as clear to the dog as it could be? With chewing, for example, WE know what items on the floor or within reach of a puppy are ours and which are theirs. But how would they know that until we teach them? It's so simple really, but we're just not used to thinking that way.

Housebreaking is one example from Donaldson's book that I remember striking me immediately. She explains why punishing a puppy for eliminating in the house can backfire, as they can learn to associate the punishment with us and not their behavior. And if we don't take them outside, watch them pee and poop, and reinforce that appropriate behavior somehow (treats, happy praise), they're not learning that that's the appropriate place to do their business. Nothing good happens when they do what you want (eliminate outdoors), but bad things happen whenever they eliminate in in your presence, which is always indoors because you're just letting the puppy out to do it on his/her own rather than going with. So you end up with a puppy who won't pee in front of you (it's dangerous!), but sneaks off and pees in another room in the house, or goes behind the couch (s/he's not here - it's safe!). Believe me, I had MANY arguments with my husband when I was potty training Halo ("just put her outside!"), and I had paused the movie for the 6th time so I could take her out and watch her pee, lol! I tried to explain that if I did that she was just peeing and pooping when she needed to, wherever she happened to be at the time, and not learning anything. I understood his frustration (and hey, *I* was the one going out in the rain every freakin' half hour!), but his way wouldn't have facilitated housebreaking. 

The thing about dog training is that it's not always easy, and often it can be very hard. But the basic concepts are actually pretty simple. Dogs do what works to get what they want. If they try something and it doesn't work, they will eventually stop doing it. So it's up to us to maximize opportunities to reinforce appropriate behavior, and figure out ways to make the things we don't want them to do to stop working for them. 

Another great book is Patricia McConnell's The Other End of the Leash. It's about how our tone of voice, body language, and behavior (the person at the other end of the leash) affects our dogs' behavior. Truly insightful, and very readable: Amazon.com: The Other End of the Leash (9780345446794): Patricia McConnell: Books



> The Other End of the Leash begins with an eloquently simple premise: "All dogs are brilliant at perceiving the slightest movement that we make, and they assume each tiny movement has meaning." With that in mind, all of Dr. Patricia McConnell's recommendations for communicating with your canine make immediate sense. Don't we all automatically bend forward when coaxing a dog to come and play? Break eye contact when we wish to avoid a confrontation? While these instinctive behaviors are right on target, a number of other habits aren't so positive, and McConnell helps us break them with both humor and common sense.


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