# Talk me down from the bell tower



## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Niko got attacked by an off-leash dog this afternoon while my husband was walking him. All he heard was a growl from somewhere behind him and then the loose dog was tearing towards them. He tried to get in between the dog and Niko, but was unable to. Fortunately Niko's collar was loose enough that he pulled out of it and ran away towards home (unfortunately that was toward the main road). The loose dog was eventually contained and put in the back of a truck.

The owner of the dog is the college-aged son of the owner of the hunting camp where this occurred. He said "My dog doesn't like other dogs, sorry." DH retrieved Niko and wanted to continue on past the house and finish the walk. The people had let the dog out AGAIN and it was still loose. They were able to grab it before it charged.

DH finishes walk and turns toward home. Yes, the dog is still loose and the owner is unaware of DH standing there and he was bragging about how bad*** (macho) his dog is.

They made it home, Niko seems unhurt and is contentedly chewing his post-dinner bone. The thing is, I walk by this house with Niko EVERY day. How am I supposed to deal with this? What I want to do is bring a claw hammer with me tomorrow morning. Is that legal? My inner Kali-Ma is demanding vengeance... I would seriously kill to protect my dogs, without hesitation. What can I do to protect my dog?

Don retrieved Nik


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would call AC on him, asap.


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## tiffanyhansen (Aug 13, 2010)

You could call Animal Control. If the dog is biting he will be put down. Then we'll see how cool that guy thinks it is to have a "macho" dog.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Glad no one was hurt! I agree call the authorities and to be safe on walks until it is dealt with I would get some pepper spray or large stick like a baseball bat.


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## JudynRich (Apr 16, 2010)

I agree on pepper spray and a big stick. Call AC too.


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## Fuse (Feb 25, 2010)

Glad everyone is ok. I can't say I'd recommend walking around brandishing a baseball bat though. If these people are as stupid as they sound from your post 'threatening' thier dog with a bat (even if it is the one at fault) could easily escalate the situation with the owners into one that could put you at risk.

I'd call AC and find a different route to walk for the time being.

Good luck.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

tiffanyhansen said:


> You could call Animal Control. If the dog is biting he will be put down. Then we'll see how cool that guy thinks it is to have a "macho" dog.


I hope the dog won't be put down because his owner is negligent. I would file a report and hope the owner heeds the warning to contain his dog. 
If this had happened to me, I would probably type up something about NILIF and ways to train his dog. website links and give it to the owner in person. 
The poor dog probably isn't a "bad dog" when we all know it is the training that lacks and all the owners fault!! I hate that dogs get blamed when the owners are so clueless.


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## ChickenKitten (Sep 19, 2009)

I remember reading somewhere that someone had recommended wasp spray rather than pepper or bear spray (pepper spray is illegal in Canada...bear spray and dog spray is not). Apparently wasp spray has better aim from a further distance and the offending dog may have to go to the vet afterwards.
My dogs were 'attacked' (dog didn't bite but jumped on them) by a loose golden retriever earlier this year. I think it scarred me more than my dogs. I was constantly worried about walking in that direction out of fear we would encounter them again.
Hope that you never see the dog or the kid again.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I would call Animal Control myself thats extremely negligent behavior that could get your dog killed. I would approach the people as well and explain that it is ILLEGAL to let your dog roam loose outside of their yard and this put your dog in danger.


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## W.Oliver (Aug 26, 2007)

Good_Karma said:


> ....Yes, the dog is still loose and the owner is unaware of DH standing there and he was bragging about how bad*** (macho) his dog is........


I posted in the spirit of "love thy neighbor" on another thread of a similar nature....however, here, given what your DH overheard, I say protect yourself.

Reasonable fear for your life opens doors of opportunity regarding your actions in what you perceive as a threat against your person. You have little to no basis to act extremely to protect your dog, as most, if not all jurisdictions view dogs as nothing more than personal property.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would use wasp spray on a human, but on a dog, I do not know. The human would be blinded temporarily and have to go to the ER. Not sure the dog owner would do that even if you could let them know what you hit the dog with. So maybe pepper spray would be better for dogs if you are worried about the offending dog. 

Also, invest in a martingale. It can save your dog's life. Use the martingale with a leash and the collar for the tags. There is nothing worse than that feeling of standing there with a leash, collar, and tags, and your naked dog running away after a deer or dog or whatever. A martingale is NOT a correction collar, it simply prevents the dog from slipping out of it like they can a flat collar.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

speak with the boys father about the situation.
if nothing favorable happens call AC.

walk in another direction.

buy mace, pepper spray, etc. when
you're spraying the dog, accidentally
on purpose spray the owner.

a solid stick, yes. a bat, no.


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

Maybe a HOT SHOT? If it will move a cow it should stop a dog. Even jus by waveing it and yelling NO GO HOME. If he proveds to try or does attack your dog. A SHOT to the backend uhh ohhs the male dog should book it back home.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i'm all for calling animal control AND carrying the bat. Mainly because there are no "big" sticks in the area that would be solid enough. and considering the neighborhood i live in, my dogs are actually the smaller ones. sad i know. definitely animal control. pepper spray, mace, even breath spray would cause a think twice on the attacking dogs part. I hope things work out for you and you get this "angry" dog taken care of. You could even report them to the police as the "kid" was bragging about his macho dog and a loose dog attacking other dogs can be considered a dangerous weapon. The dog could become a threat to people as well.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Well, my husband is driving the truck down past the house to see if the kid's vehicle is still there. He is going to have a talk with the father. This was the first time we've ever seen this kid visit so maybe it won't ever happen again.

I had no idea that you could not legally physically (and with violence) protect your dog!!!! Would that stop anyone on this thread?

I will be buying pepper spray, probably wise to carry it since I did see a black bear last week. DH is planning on having a talk with the father to get a promise that it won't ever happen again.

The dog did actually growl at my husband too, so calling animal control might end in results, but that kid might be hard to track down since he doesn't live there. We'll see how the conversation with the father goes.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

Call animal control... 

And I highly suggest you get a concealed carry permit if your can in your area and use it. If it is an all-out attack, especially by a fighting breed, there is not much else you can do if nobody is around with breaksticks to help you control the other dog.. 

Carry a sturdy walking stick - to keep the dog at bay and hit if needed. 

Tighten your dog's collar... He'd be in much more trouble if the dog got to him while he was loose and you were a couple hundred feet away... Next time this happens hold him close to your side and stave off the other dog.

Mace is another option, but there is the chance of it wafting back at you or your dogs.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I already ordered a new collar, one with a buckle and holes punched in it so it won't loosen (we had a Lupine on him). 

I carried a stick today when we went by the house, and oh man did Niko think that was cool. Mommy brought a toy!!! After we passed the house he got to carry it.

In NYS you have to buy the pepper spray in person and sign something, so that will have to wait for our next trip into town. 

Niko seems far less traumatized than me and my husband. He was fine about seeing the road crew paving near our driveway even though we had to climb down into the ditch when the tar sprayer went by. He met one of the road crew guys and did not bark at him a single time, and after he sniffed the man's crotch  Niko decided he was okay and let him pet his head.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I've programmed the number for Animal Control into my phone. Since Niko was totally unscathed, it seems like we don't have much proof that the incident even happened. But if we see that dog again, we'll be better prepared.


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## crisp (Jun 23, 2010)

You should call, but instead of AC, call the Police. Most states and counties have laws that prohibit a dog running loose of the leash. Its very overlooked, as even I train my dog off lead, but I understand that if my dog attacked, I'd be in a world of trouble. 

I also agree with carrying a stick. You are establshing pack structure with your dog and when a threat comes its up to you to deal with it unless you want your dog to do it for you. Obviously hes young, but don't think that dogs don't see that. I've had situations like yours and so far was able to control the loose dog verbally. If it did, however, try to bite me or my dog, I'd crack it in the jaw, no questions asked. Thats called self defense, and here in Cook County, Illinois, its a lot more legal than letting your dog run loose.


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## JigPat (Aug 12, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> speak with the boys father about the situation.
> if nothing favorable happens call AC.
> 
> walk in another direction.
> ...



LOL!

I agree with calling the AC.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

An adjustable martingale fits loosely on the dog's neck, but has a chain that tightens when the leash is pulled. The chain section looks like the chain section of a prong collar, it prevents the dog from slipping the collar. To do that with a flat collar you would have to keep the collar fairly tight on the dog's neck.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

You know, about changing to walk in a different place. That's a sensible thing to do, but I've already avoided walking in both directions on the main road to avoid a rottweiler, a boxer, and a mixed breed dog. All but the boxer are unleashed and will follow us into the road, barking. Once the boxer broke through the screen door and got close to Niko (all barking, no contact). Once the dog broke his clothesline tie-out and jumped on me as I was jogging past (without dog). He scratched me pretty good. 

So I've already changed walking locations twice and I'm sick of it. Until now, the road I walk on never had a dog in residence. It is the best place to walk since it is only seasonally maintained (little traffic) and on its two mile length there are about five hunting camps and no permanent residents.

So is it better to call the police or AC? And what's the difference between pepper spray and bear spray? I'd rather use spray than a stick, I'm no Babe Ruth. I'm a skinny blonde chick.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

Just wondering, what happens when you throw hotdogs and bacon at an attacking dog?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm curious - what about one of those loud horn things that people bring to sport functions? I think it's an air horn. It might be enough to give the offending dog a run for it's money. It is supposed to help scare off bears. And then a big stick as a back up.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Ooh, but what will the big loud horn do to my dog? It might well work if I were alone. I don't think throwing treats would do a thing. From what I've seen, once the dogs see each other as threats, they don't think too much about snacks. I'd be willing to bet a parade of bunny rabbits could circle around them and they wouldn't notice.

Or would it...? Anyone know where I can get some trained bunny rabbits?


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> Ooh, but what will the big loud horn do to my dog? It might well work if I were alone. I don't think throwing treats would do a thing. From what I've seen, once the dogs see each other as threats, they don't think too much about snacks. I'd be willing to bet a parade of bunny rabbits could circle around them and they wouldn't notice.
> 
> Or would it...? Anyone know where I can get some trained bunny rabbits?


 
I suppose you're right, didn't think about your pup. Maybe you could get one of those trained bunnys on a leash and then bring the air horn. I just think I'd get a sick kick out of watching Mr. Macho dog run with his tail between his legs back to his moron owner.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would not want to throw treats. The neighbors might think you are trying to poison their dog. And dogs will often be food aggressive, it could make it even more heightened of a situation. 

What about calling them, do you have their number. Tell them that you intend to walk your dog, and if there dog is out again your are calling AC AND the police. You are not happy about what happened already and want to be able to walk your dog down the sidewalk. If you can get bear spray, that is what I would use.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

Yeah it's kind of messed up to be proud that your dog scares other dogs. I guess it was some mixed breed, about 60lbs. I suppose it made the guy feel good to know his dog could scare an 86 lb GSD...PUPPY!!!! What an a-hole. But that's kind of typical of the type of dog owners in this area. The way they allow their dogs to roam freely amazes me, but I suppose that's better than the way my own cousin treats his dogs - tying the dog up without enough length on the lead to even sit down. My mom had a long talk with his sister after that but it came to nothing.


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## JazzNScout (Aug 2, 2008)

Haven't read through all of the replies. I'd get mace and whatever else I might need to protect myself and my dog. I would also call the police in addition to Animal Control.

Your husband is calmer than I am. I would have threatened that you-know-what in NO uncertain terms that I would kill his dog if it ever happened again. I've said it to people before, and I would say it again.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

JazzNScout said:


> Haven't read through all of the replies. I'd get mace and whatever else I might need to protect myself and my dog. I would also call the police in addition to Animal Control.
> 
> Your husband is calmer than I am. I would have threatened that you-know-what in NO uncertain terms that I would kill his dog if it ever happened again. I've said it to people before, and I would say it again.


Oh, thank you for saying that!!!!!! I was beginning to think I was a complete freak because I was totally willing to kill this dog the next time I saw it come near mine. 

When my husband gets furious (and he was) he generally will just walk away and work through it on his own. I'm not sure what I would have done, I imagine there would have been cursing.

He's getting me pepper spray tomorrow.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Is that dog still there - is it feasible to drive past before a walk? I would definitely stop by and say that we like to walk our dogs, but would hate to have anything happen to their dog, or your dog because they would have to pay a lot in vet bills when you took them to Orchard Park for emergency care. I would also call AC, but if it's like here, no leash laws (GAH - my kingdom for a leash law), and then check with the State Troopers. 

I have this ultrasonic thing that I "saw on TV" and got to try to get some of the barking stopped (the boys...ack...the boys...). Unfortunately when I tried it, Mario cried, Bruno jumped a baby gate and wouldn't come out from under the bed, and Rocco refused to eat. So I can't use it in the house - ever - but was thinking it might work for walks. 

Definitely agree on the Martingale - all here have them and the rescue uses them for all transports because they are AKA no slip collars. 

I also think treats, and hindsight, using command and control voice to get the dog to stop and listen - but would never think of that as a dog came barreling at me and my dog. 

A riding crop might also work, the ones with the leather at the end that makes a cracking noise. 

And if he (owner, dog) even looks at Rosa, you let me know...because I will go Chow Chow crazy on his butt. 

PS: Rosa - GSD/Border Collie/Muppet mix, born April 2009
:rofl: Muppet!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Good_Karma said:


> Well, my husband is driving the truck down past the house to see if the kid's vehicle is still there. He is going to have a talk with the father. This was the first time we've ever seen this kid visit so maybe it won't ever happen again.
> 
> I had no idea that you could not legally physically (and with violence) protect your dog!!!! Would that stop anyone on this thread?
> 
> ...


You could claim (think) that if the dog comes after your dog, then you were afraid for your own health and life! I think that if a dog is actually attacking my leashed dog he really is close enough to me to be a real threat to me! Thus I can protect myself!


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

The only thing bad about the pepper spray is if it is windy, you don't have a chance. I had a similar problem with loose dogs. At first I carried a stick, then I carried pepper spray around, I tried to make sure I could aim it right. 
This may sound harsh, but we got a small hand held, low volt, cattle prod, I don't even remember why I got it but I still have it. If I were to have problems with loose dogs again, I would use it over sticks or sprays anyday. It's no worse than a zap from the electric fence.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

That's not harsh... However, do make sure you are allowed to have a cattle prod. It's a lot less harsh than one of our dogs getting ahold of some loose mutt who's too big for his pants, being maced - or a bullet. I've been shocked many times, it doesn't feel good! But it wear off much faster than mace and I think it's more humane than mace or hitting... Maybe you could use it on the owner, too lol


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Is that dog still there - is it feasible to drive past before a walk? I would definitely stop by and say that we like to walk our dogs, but would hate to have anything happen to their dog, or your dog because they would have to pay a lot in vet bills when you took them to Orchard Park for emergency care. I would also call AC, but if it's like here, no leash laws (GAH - my kingdom for a leash law), and then check with the State Troopers.
> 
> I have this ultrasonic thing that I "saw on TV" and got to try to get some of the barking stopped (the boys...ack...the boys...). Unfortunately when I tried it, Mario cried, Bruno jumped a baby gate and wouldn't come out from under the bed, and Rocco refused to eat. So I can't use it in the house - ever - but was thinking it might work for walks.
> 
> ...


Jean, the dog has not been there since, and curiously neither has the owner of the camp. I do not know if he has a phone there either, since it is just a hunting camp and not a permanent residence. But as soon as he comes back, we are going to have a talk about it. We will raise the points you mentioned, calmly (I hope).

I like the riding crop, as it has potential for other uses.:blush: Kidding!

And I totally am so grateful to whatever supreme being is up there that Rosa was not the one on that walk!!!! I would have gone right down there and torn that dog apart with my bare hands! She will not be going that way until the situation is resolved.

I can also see the house from far enough away to tell if there is that guy's car is there. From there I can cut into the woods and sneak by (I'll be trespassing but oh well).

Is there really no leash law???? I will have to look into that.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

kiya said:


> The only thing bad about the pepper spray is if it is windy, you don't have a chance. I had a similar problem with loose dogs. At first I carried a stick, then I carried pepper spray around, I tried to make sure I could aim it right.
> This may sound harsh, but we got a small hand held, low volt, cattle prod, I don't even remember why I got it but I still have it. If I were to have problems with loose dogs again, I would use it over sticks or sprays anyday. It's no worse than a zap from the electric fence.


Is it a battery operated cattle prod? How does that work? Just out of curiosity, and the potential for other uses.:blush: Still kidding!!!

That road is pretty sheltered by trees, and it's not often too windy.


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

I agree: call animal control, file a report (better a "almost got my dog" report now than a "he did get my dog" report next time!), and carry protection (dog/pepper spray, a baton of some sort, etc. I agree the dog was most likely encouraged to be aggressive or at the very least not _discouraged_, but that is rather a moot point when he is charging at you and your dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

codmaster said:


> You could claim (think) that if the dog comes after your dog, then you were afraid for your own health and life! I think that if a dog is actually attacking my leashed dog he really is close enough to me to be a real threat to me! Thus I can protect myself!


And you wonder why many of us do not believe the shooter of the husky??? How quick people are to SAY the dog was coming after them, or that THEY were afraid. 

I don't know, I think of this as a lie.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Good_Karma said:


> Is it a battery operated cattle prod? How does that work? Just out of curiosity, and the potential for other uses.:blush: Still kidding!!!
> .


 Yes it is, also called a hot shot. I got it about 10yrs ago, it was a gag gift for someone.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> And you wonder why many of us do not believe the shooter of the husky??? How quick people are to SAY the dog was coming after them, or that THEY were afraid.
> 
> I don't know, I think of this as a lie.


 
Lighten up! Enjoy a joke now and then.

A literary trick - ridicule by exaggeration. 

Also not meant to be serious!

And unless you can read someones mind how are you so sure that you know what the guy (or anybody) is really thinking inh a crisis?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Excuse me for not taking _that_ as a joke.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

selzer said:


> Excuse me for not taking _that_ as a joke.


 
Ok, you're forgiven!


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

That Husky thread is immensely looooooong. I've been avoiding it. Should I read it? Is there anything helpful or relevant to my situation in it?


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

kiya said:


> Yes it is, also called a hot shot. I got it about 10yrs ago, it was a gag gift for someone.


Wow it only runs on two nine volts? But it's so small... The dog would be so close to be able to use it. Wonder how many shocks it does before the juice runs out? Would it work on my husband when he snores at night?


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

I would still recomend the long cattle prod. The lil one looks to much like a tazer. I'm sure if u zapped him in the Butt or in the privets he would leave in a hurry. I would also turn it as high as it would go for extra insentive to leave you and your dog alone.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Good_Karma said:


> Wow it only runs on two nine volts? But it's so small... The dog would be so close to be able to use it. Wonder how many shocks it does before the juice runs out? Would it work on my husband when he snores at night?


 
Do you know anyone who has ever had to use it on a dog? I was thinking that maybe it might kill a dog if it were designed for cattle?


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## ChristenHolden (Jan 16, 2010)

When I was 18 I seen one used on a dog. I was having my tire changed when this old cow dog came up to me. I started to pet and love on him when his OWNER comes up to me yelling and curssing saying he's mean and can't be trusted and that the dog had jus Bit him. He pulled out a cow prod amd jus started ti zap him over and over saying he was taking the dog home to shoot. I called the cops and turned him in. Turns out he was afilliated some how and got off scot free. I'm sure he followed tro with his threat  I wish now I had took the dog and ran but I was to scared of the man to do anything at the time. The dog was not killed by the prod but he did yelp and you could tell he wanted to get away. I wold only use this on a attacking dog. Not like the old prick for revinge on a dog that bit him. Tho I can see why the dog bit. I know you won't do that tho and this is a bad example. But I have seen it used on a dog of about 45 to 50 pounds.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thanks!


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