# Can you tell me anything about this lineage/breeder



## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I was offered a puppy from Taylor Made German Shepherds in CA. Wondering what you think of them?

Sire is V Gordon vom Fuchsgraben
and Dam is Mara vom Adelhertz

I can't find anything on Mara.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Taylor Made Working Dogs

Here's Mara





 
Interesting that none of the 'm' litter from adelhertz is on pedigreedatabase, though many other litters are well represented.

m vom adelhertz - German Shepherd Dog pedigree search results

or

m vom adelhertz - German Shepherd Dog pedigree search results


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I wasn't sure if I was allowed to post links. He offered 
Me a pup for very cheap. Said because I wanted to work the dog it's good for him to have his dogs progeny working. I know nothing about the pedigrees, what it all means and what's normal. I'm wondering if maybe they are newer and that's why the low price. I dont want to buy from a back yard breeder. I want to make sure these are good, healthy legitimate working german shepherds.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Puppies | those are some very puny skinny pups for 9 weeks ?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

carmspack said:


> Puppies | those are some very puny skinny pups for 9 weeks ?


Hm. They don't look right at all...?? Not for 9 weeks...but what do I know?


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok thank you. I was feeling the same way. I looked up other 9 week old GSD puppies and they just don't look right. Something in my gut was saying something isn't right. But I wanted to ask.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Gordon is a great dog--I think I'd go visit and see if you like the pups in person. I'm not seeing a pedigree or picture of mom, so maybe you could get a chance to meet her, too.


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## ristakrat (Jun 10, 2010)

Definitely not typical 9 week old pups. It could be a possibility they were all runts or had a severe case of parasites? 
A friend of mine breeds huskies. He had a parvo outbreak with his first litter and the pups that got it and survived looked very similar (small and shrimpy but precious) compared to the rest of their litter. They are adorable but if you really want to know what you are getting, pay a visit to the breeder and check out their dogs and watch them work.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

They may just have updated the info and NOT the photos. I agree with Christine from Blackthorn that you may want to go look at the parent dogs and puppies. 

If you have bothered to read up on Welcome to the GSD/FAQ's for the first time owner - German Shepherd Dog Forums and more specifically http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html you'll be able to determine the type of breeder they are and if you support their program. Just going to see them and talk to them is not a commitment. 

It does appear they raise the 'working' type GSD which can take a ton more time and $$$ to take to training, socialize and exercise then some other lines. But I'm sure you've been looking into all that and have all the extra time and money for the next year or so.

aw:


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

carmspack said:


> Puppies | those are some very puny skinny pups for 9 weeks ?


I have seen some Shepherds recently that could have looked like that as puppies. I saw them on facebook, mainly czech line. They had weird eyes, pointy heads, very light, almost no angulation and eyes that looked like they were about to pop out of the head. Very small, light but super driven and they were imported from Czech, never seen Shepherds like that before. They were mainly sold as police dogs. Some people were like "Oooh gorgeous" and I was like "WTH, is that supposed to be a Shepherd? Really?"


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Mrs.K said:


> I have seen some Shepherds recently that could have looked like that as puppies. I saw them on facebook, mainly czech line. They had weird eyes, pointy heads, very light, almost no angulation and *eyes that looked like they were about to pop out of the head.* Very small, light but super driven and they were imported from Czech, never seen Shepherds like that before. They were mainly sold as police dogs. Some people were like "Oooh gorgeous" and I was like "WTH, is that supposed to be a Shepherd? Really?"


I was wondering if that's what I was looking at actually, because I've seen some of them in some Sch vids.

BTW I have a question about that Sch. vid.
Can someone explain why, in the vid, the man is calling for the dog to come attack, and when she runs out, she runs far to the right of the man?
He actually runs to the right to intercept her!

How's that going to stop a "bad guy" escaping?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Gordon is a very nice dog from his photos, videos and accomplishments....go see the pups.....talk to the owner and then decide

Lee


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

That wasn't an "attack". It was a dog going for the toy he's waving around. Most likely she was headed to the wooded spot because that's where she'd been getting to play previous to when the camera came out.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

He asked me to come down and look at the pups and adults last week. I could probably go this weekend. 
Thank you for the links Maggie!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Chris Wild said:


> That wasn't an "attack". It was a dog going for the toy he's waving around. Most likely she was headed to the wooded spot because that's where she'd been getting to play previous to when the camera came out.


Oh, okay...I was confused because it was like she didn't even see him.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

msvette2u said:


> BTW I have a question about that Sch. vid.
> Can someone explain why, in the vid, the man is calling for the dog to come attack, and when she runs out, she runs far to the right of the man?
> He actually runs to the right to intercept her!
> 
> How's that going to stop a "bad guy" escaping?


the man makes "attraction" - gets the dogs attention

when the dog is released and en route UPHILL to the man, he retreats into woods - the dog is only midway up hill at that point...

the camera man follows the dog into the woods where the man is concealed - the dog engages the man

Nice video - nothing wrong with this dog as per the way they set this scenerio up

This is not an "escape" scenerio...it is a modificaton on a courage test element of the IPO test

Lee


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I would go look if you're interested. I don't see the big deal with the puppies? Other than being a bit darker they remind me of Pan when he was 7 weeks old. He was 9lbs when I got him and he was NOT sick or anything wrong. Now he is 2 and correct size (he has two show cards, highest ratings for his age, hips and elbows a-stamped, SV dental notation). They might not be puppies with big bones and blocky heads at that age but just based on that site I don't see enough to make assumptions about their health or breeding.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

msvette2u said:


> Oh, okay...I was confused because it was like she didn't even see him.


You can see a blind lying there on the ground where the bite was given, so that may well be the place she's used to being worked.

Or for all we know there may have been another person over in the wooded area she was focused on that we don't see on the camera.

Also given the camera angle and the dog running up hill it's hard to tell what her true path was and who started going to the woods first, dog or helper.

Any number of possible reasons... but regardless that was just playing around, nothing serious and no "bad guy" just a playmate.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> They may just have updated the info and NOT the photos.


That's what I wondered about, those pups are adorable but they definitely don't look like they're 9 weeks old, more like 6 or 7 weeks tops. But they may not be current pictures either.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Thank you everyone. I am going to look tomorrow morning!!


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Let us know how it went. I'm curious.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> They may just have updated the info and NOT the photos.
> aw:


That was exactly what I thought when I started looking at the pictures.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I will let you know as soon as I am done! and if we take her home, will include pictures!


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Well we picked her up. But she is insanely small. I couldn't leave her. She was so thin. BUT I didn't even realize HOW thin until I really held her and petted her in the car. Then weighed her when I got home. She is 8.2 pounds! at 10-11 weeks old. She is skin and bones. I just emailed the breeder. They gave her, the 4th dose of panacur before we took her. I asked if she had worms or had them in the past and they assured me she didn't. but she had to have had something. Her and the other puppy there were equally underweight. She is energized and spunky and so sweet and ate like she was starving when I fed her. I am just so lost because we saw both parents. Both were nice and friendly and in good condition, beautiful actually. Mom was petite/thin but not unhealthy. It was an accidental breeding, I was told. They had other dogs there that were all in good condition. Clean cages etc. Also got a contract, everything sounded good in the contract too. I probably shouldn't have taken her home. I basically looked at her, my daughter instantly fell in love and I thought to myself, she may not be a schutzhund dog, but I can't leave her here. She was basically free. So now she's here, and I am praying whatever was wrong with her is over now and we can move on to gaining weight and getting healthy. I will post pictures asap. No name yet. I was thinking Karma or Pandora but no one else likes them haha.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Here you can see how thin she is-


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

She's adorable.  I hope she grows up strong and healthy. Will you be taking her to your vet on Monday?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If she was basically free, I would have taken both pups off the breeders hands and found a good home for the other one. What were they feeding the pups?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> They gave her, the 4th dose of panacur before we took her. I asked if she had worms or had them in the past and they assured me she didn't.


All puppies have worms.
They get them from nursing on mom. Maybe they didn't see them but _all_ puppies have worms.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

By looking at the pups I would have guessed that Roxie the dutch shepherd was the mother instead of Mara.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

robk said:


> By looking at the pups I would have guessed that Roxie the dutch shepherd was the mother instead of Mara.


That crossed my mind as well!


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

They were 300 each. Which is cheap but unfortunately we couldn't afford 600 plus the other had an umbilical hernia and I wasn't sure what all that entails, surgery/cost 
wise. It crossed my mind though. I talked to him some more via email,he said the people who took the other pups have said they gained considerable amount of weight quickly and that he thinks it may have had something to do with competition with food? But that they were born about half the size of normal. And the papers say Mara is the mom but who freakin knows. She seems healthy now, alert and active. Yelling at me from her crate as we speak. It's going to be a long night lol. But anyways I am feeding her 4 xs a day for now. She eats really well, super fast. And I am def taking her to the vet on Monday!
What are your thoughts on that high calorie nutrition supplement stuff? Is it crap? Or should I use that with her? I have her on merrick grain free right now. Tried to go raw because I thought it would be the best nutrition but she literally tried inhaling it and when I tried taking it away she just swallowed a big chunk all fast so I couldn't get it. So no more of the til she can have larger pieces to chew into. 

She just pooped. Diarrhea, but he said that would probably happen from the medicine. No worms in it.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh and he said it was 300 because it was an accidental breeding. Mara is only 18 months with no titles or anything.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

She looks like a GSD pup to me--just small and skinny. Last time I saw pups like that, the breeder said he'd been fighting giardia in the litter and they'd had trouble gaining weight. 

Take a stool sample to your vet on Monday, just to check. Panacur treats coccidia and giardia, which is good. 

I think I would try to feed her 4 times a day, about 3/4 cups each time. Don't add anything too rich--that will be hard on her stomach. Add a small amount of yogurt or some probiotics/enzymes to each meal.

If her diarrhea is liquid/watery, then don't feed her anything but rice with maybe a bit of boiled chicken or scrambled eggs added until you can talk to the vet (which should be Monday). 

If it's just pasty/loose stools, then that's not unusual for a puppy going into a new home and the panacur should help--just make sure not to give her a ton of different, rich foods that will be hard on her stomach.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

That pup is adorable! She does seem a bit skinny but I bet that she'll gain quickly and catch up in no time. Don't feed her too much too soon--it can cause digestive upset. The best way to get a pup to gain weight is several smaller meals a day. What was the breeder feeding? You might want to get a small bag of that and switch her over to the new food gradually. I wouldn't bother with supplements at this point, just good food should do the trick, since her appetite is voracious.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> Don't feed her too much too soon--it can cause digestive upset. The best way to get a pup to gain weight is several smaller meals a day.


:thumbup:
It's tempting to toss everything down them but the kitchen sink but slow is best.
A puppy won't take long to lose weight or gain, either one.
I'm concerned they do have a gut issue, though, as blackthorn said, take a stool sample in ASAP.


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok got it. I'll cook up a bath of rice in the morning. My other dog had giardia as a pup, after we rescued him. Awful awful awful! The diarrhea didn't look like that to me. But I will take a sample with me Monday. 

Thank you for all of your help!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

awwww poor little thing, but she is CUTE!,,and every puppy deserves a good home..I agree with Christine's suggestions, and definitely a vet visit on Monday. I also hope she grows up strong and healthy

Ok did I miss it? What did you name her?


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

No name yet. I forgot how hard naming is lol


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