# Orijen vs Eukanuba 30/20



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Sexiness aside, it does not appear that Orijen has much on a food costing less than half the cost. 

Orijen Caloric Distribution:

Protein: 45%
Fat: 30%
Carbs: 25% (Orijen call this "fruits & vegetables")

Eukanuba 30/20

Protein: 27.08%
Fat: 44.47%
Carbohydrate: 28.44%

So basically this shows that the overall level of carbohydrates are about the same. The difference is in the fat, which is what fuels a dog, not protein.

This explains why dogs fed foods like Orijen have a hard time in working situations and why they lose weight so fast, even just normally active dogs.

Protein is not a valuable or efficient source of calories so this protein is wasted so to speak and the dog winds up consuming its fat stores.

Clearly if you have a thin dog, use a traditional 30/20 food.


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## WarrantsWifey (Dec 18, 2010)

Wow, I have a feeling your going to have a few people with something to say about this. I feed NEITHER, so I'm gonna keep my mouth closed since I have no experience! Thanks for the statistics/info though!


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

ALWAYS fed a food higher in fat content, and higher in calories.
My dogs "spend" their energy, so they need to be able to replenish properly.
I'm not against grain....even though I feed a "grain free food also".....
My dogs eat what I offer them, including meats, pasta, rice & leftovers......very little food in my home goes to waste....and no problems with food intolerance. *Thank goodness!*


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

WarrantsWifey said:


> Wow, I have a feeling your going to have a few people with something to say about this. I feed NEITHER, so I'm gonna keep my mouth closed since I have no experience! Thanks for the statistics/info though!


Orijen is a lap-dog food.

This data is fact. People that have a hard time with fact have issues.

I stuck that up to show why young, active dogs that look like crap should be eating a food designed to support their energy needs and not a designer food.

Some other grain frees would look even worse compared to that Euk.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have fed Orijen but I am no test as our kibble diets are supplemented and usually with fats and carbs. I can see active dogs doing well on a 30/20 formulation. 

I am looking for such a formula that does not contain chicken. Any ideas?

One without corn?


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Samba said:


> I have fed Orijen but I am no test as our kibble diets are supplemented and usually with fats and carbs. I can see active dogs doing well on a 30/20 formulation.
> 
> I am looking for such a formula that does not contain chicken. Any ideas?
> 
> One without corn?


I can't think of one without chicken. I would like to see one with all beef & pork personally. As for one without corn, there are several. Healthwise, Precise Endurance, Dr. Tim's.

Dr. Tim's also has a 35/25% but is chicken-based.

Sportmix makes that Black Bag 24/20 with beef & pork but it has corn.

Does your dog really have a corn issue? I can see chicken because it is common.

That Sportmix formula is very high in calories, very palatable and quite a good simple diet. 

And at 50 cents lb it is hard to argue.


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## JPrice (Feb 19, 2011)

I feed Orijen LBP to my 4 1/2 month old pup, and she is very active...she seems to love it, and I supplement a little salmon oil on top in the morning for her skin.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I feed grain-free (rotating through several brands one of which is Orijen), although the homemade treats I give my dogs are make with ww flour. Niko and I run four to six miles a day (which is only part of his daily exercise). I think he's doing just fine on it in spite of not being a lap dog.  I would be happy to post a few pictures of him if you do not believe me.

I think it's nice that you are so passionate about wanting people to feed their dogs well. I don't happen to agree with you on the need for grains in a diet, but I am sure your dogs are doing well on what you are feeding them too. I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to convince everyone to feed what you consider to be the best foods. Can you explain it? I am not trying to be confrontational, merely trying to see where you are coming from so that I may have more empathy for you.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sable 123 wowee . Orijen for lap dogs . I don't think so . It is not unusual for dogs being moved from one kibble to Orijen or too RAW to loose weight . When you are supply a good source of protein you build muscle. The very nature of muscle requires more energy to maintain that muscle - so weight loss , fat burning. Any guy that does work outs knows this . Fact in many a book , magazine, e site .
Back up your statements with validation from experts -- Lew Olson is one example , PhD in natural health , with a specialization in canine digestion. 
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs 

C


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## PupperLove (Apr 10, 2010)

Eukanuba IMO is way too expensive for what is in it. Also, doesn't Eukanuba use ethoxyquin to preserve their fish meal, or their supplier uses it?


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm sorry, can you site specific examples of a plethora of performance and lap dogs rapidly losing weight on Orijen?

I know people who feed it with "active family" dogs. And I know people who feed it who have sport dogs. Unless Orijen is just playing havok with a dogs system (NO food is going to work for every dog), I know no one saying their dogs are losing weight on it. And most feed a very small amount.


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## spidermilk (Mar 18, 2010)

I'm not a dog nutritionist or anything, but don't body builders and other athletes try to eat fairly high protein/low fat diets?

I feed Orijen and Acana, I have tried TOTW but Dax didn't really like it. He does great on Orijen so that is what I am feeding.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I think people should feed _"what their dog's need"..._if that means they do *better* on a *grain free* food...then feed it....if they *need* the *benefits* of some added *grains*...then feed it.
Not all dogs benefit from the same foods and feeding regimens.....look *closely* at your animals, KNOW when something _isn't_ working or benefiting them (no matter what the masses do).....*popularity* of dog food brands *means nothing*...if YOUR dog doesn't flourish on it.
JMO


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Sexiness aside, it does not appear that Orijen has much on a food costing less than half the cost.
> 
> Orijen Caloric Distribution:
> 
> ...





All of my dogs are fed Acana & Orijen or Raw... I would genuinely like to know which of my dogs you feel is not muscled enough, is too thin, or is eating too much to make up for the lack in diet.

















-eating 2 1/2 lbs of raw a day
-weighs 85lbs 

























-eating 1lb of raw a day 
-weighs 50lbs

















-eating 1.2lbs of raw a day
-weighs 70lbs

















-eating 4 cups of Acana (or Orijen depending on month) a day
-Weighs 67lbs

Here is my friends dog








-eats 3 cups of Orijen
-Weighs 80lbs

All of the dogs above are working in schutzhund, play 1-2 hours of fetch a day, go for bike rides and hikes, swim, run on treadmill with backpack etc.

None have any problems keeping on weight. 


here is a quote taken from a website describing how our bodies get energy and use it


> Just keep in mind that it takes all three macronutrients (carbohydrates, protein and fat) in the proper amounts to keep energy levels at there best. Always be sure to take in some carbohydrates and protein an hour before exercise and some more thirty minutes after, taking in your fats well before and well after exercise


Energy, How Does My Body Get It And How Does It Use It?


here is a website discussing k9 conditioning
K9 Conditioning- Canine Fitness at the Highest Level

This quote really stands out to me


> 2. The source of the protein
> 
> Not all types of protein in dog food are the same. Some dog foods contain protein that is not highly digestible. Ingredients in certain dry product may be sourced from by-product such as; chicken feathers, feet, cartilage, undesirable animal tissues. These are proteins (loosely defined) but pass through the gut with little benefit. A manufacturer may list the protein as 26%, however when consumed, the digestible protein percentage reduces to only 15%, maybe less. *Easily digestible proteins, such as fresh, raw animal flesh are required.* *Dry dog food contains important nutrients, however raw flesh supplies higher digestibility and assimilates into the blood stream faster than dry product.*


I think that basically covers what everyone has been getting at in this thread as well as the other thread that this one stemmed from.



That website discusses the importance of fat in a diet, but does not cover how much fat is required. the 30% that Orijen supplies might be more than enough to supply an active performance dog. And judging by the way all of the dogs I have seen on Orijen who are very active, I would say that its plenty.

Feeding raw is more in the air, It requires more of the owners direct influence of adding fat into the diet to supply the dog for high activity levels. However for active dogs it is more desirable because as stated above from the k9 conditioning website, it is easily digestible, assimilates into the blood stream faster, supplies more water to the dog which is even more important than food.


> Keeping your dog adequately hydrated is critical in any exercise program; it is more important than food!



If I am trying to condition my dog and have a performance dog who must be able to keep going all day, then I am going to pay close attention to the diet. Close attention to the diet means I am not going to feed my dog the less than desirable grains. 



> Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal (natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), *Corn Meal*, *Brewers Rice*, Fish Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), *Natural Chicken Flavor*, *Dried Beet Pulp* (sugar removed), Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, *Salt*, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid], Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Fructooligosaccharides, Choline Chloride, Minerals [Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate], Calcium Carbonate, Dried Chicken Cartilage (natural source


To discuss the items in bold above 
*-Corn Meal*- Why are you putting corn in a dogs diet other than to help fill them up with cheap ingredients? Also a common allergen in dogs
*-Brewers Rice*- one of the grains the k9 conditioning website says is a second hand carbohydrate and what remains after processing is a less than desirable quality. Also a common allergen in dogs (whole rice is always preferred, this is not actually rice, but rather the hulls leftover after processing)
*-Natural Chicken Flavor* -What exactly are they using for flavor? This is often unnamed meat sources 
*-Dried Beet Pulp* - A useless filler. This is commonly used to help the dog keep firm stools because the other ingredients in the food cannot 
*-Salt*- what is SALT doing in a dogs food?

Also if I care so much about my dogs diet to get this into it. Why would I choose a food that has ethoxyquin in it....


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

One of the dogs appears to have a chicken issue. In the elimination process now. I have been lucky that I have not had many with food deals, but so far this one is looking real.

It is a different dog with the corn deal. His ears will gunk up when on corn. It is very predictable as I has tested it several times. 

So separate dogs on the two deals. The chicken girl is off of corn right now though and it has not been re-introduced so don't know for sure.

I have some Orijen and Acana right now. Also, TOTW. Many of the dogs do fine on it. Get one of those buggers who is thin and difficult to put an ounce on and I have some difficulty achieving gain with those foods.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You will puke but my dog who had a chicken allergy did well on Purina ONE sensitive systems. May want to look at the ingredient list and see if you can check out something similar only without the mendadione. ....... Not saying it was a great food but he did gain on it and he was a rangy boy with all kinds of allergies and hard to keep weight on.


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## Mika140 (Jan 8, 2011)

So Sable, since you're such an expert on working dogs, how many TRUE working dogs do you have? Not just sport dogs or active dogs, but working dogs that are actually assigned a job to do?

I ask because I do actually have a working dog....a dog that works and earns more for me on my paycheck because of the job he does. He thrived while on Orijen - much better muscle tone than other working dogs on other "performance" formulas. I also know a number of other true working dogs that are currently being fed Orijen. They are also thriving on it and they do not get supplemented with other foods, so it is strictly the Orijen going into them. They don't just work when they feel like it - they work when they are needed. They train hard and work hard in a field that is very demanding on them. 

Maybe you should get better acquainted with actual working dogs before you decide what is best for the worldwide existence of all working dogs.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree that everyone has to go with works best for their dogs. I have all 4 of mine on a mixture of Orijen and raw and they are thriving as well. I've never used Eukanuba, but I've used brands whose ingredient list is very similar. Kaiya has strong allergies to grain and would get nasty patches of scabby, dried skin, terrible itchies, and **** buildup in her ears. My yorkie's breath was horrid, and I never understood why. Since switching them all to grain free, we have had no more problems. I've used TOTW and Wellness Core, but they seem to enjoy the Orijen most. All are at normal weights and very healthy.

Just to add...the only thing I find "sexy" about Orijen is it's ingredient list!


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Mika140 said:


> So Sable, since you're such an expert on working dogs, how many TRUE working dogs do you have? Not just sport dogs or active dogs, but working dogs that are actually assigned a job to do?
> 
> I ask because I do actually have a working dog....a dog that works and earns more for me on my paycheck because of the job he does. He thrived while on Orijen - much better muscle tone than other working dogs on other "performance" formulas. I also know a number of other true working dogs that are currently being fed Orijen. They are also thriving on it and they do not get supplemented with other foods, so it is strictly the Orijen going into them. They don't just work when they feel like it - they work when they are needed. They train hard and work hard in a field that is very demanding on them.
> 
> Maybe you should get better acquainted with actual working dogs before you decide what is best for the worldwide existence of all working dogs.


I have 13 dogs, 12 hunting dogs (3 GSP's, 6 GWP's & 3 Spinoni). Except for two older GSP's, the dogs train all year, 3 times a week at a 12,000 acre preserve. They all wear Garmins. I have one GSD which has been staying with me since a friend and his wife are overseas. 3 of my dogs went to North Dakota this winter. Hunted 7 days straight in temps below 10 degrees.

There is not a chance in the world a modern GSD would be exposed to the physical stress these dogs are. I have been to so faux herding events and pretty much any well trained herding dog could do well. Physically not demanding.

None of these dog's would be able to keep up on a grain-free food. The "calories" are too skewed to protein and that just does not work for dogs in an aerobic state. 

I know border collies that eat the food from Sam's Club and do quite well.

Do you know what Fat Adaptation is? How about Exertional Hypoglycemia? Well that is what happens to dogs that eat grain-free foods.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Samba said:


> One of the dogs appears to have a chicken issue. In the elimination process now. I have been lucky that I have not had many with food deals, but so far this one is looking real.
> 
> It is a different dog with the corn deal. His ears will gunk up when on corn. It is very predictable as I has tested it several times.
> 
> ...


I do wish someone would sell a 30/20 pork diet. Pork is just a great meat for this application.

You are all losing sight of the thread. This is about a dog that needs to gain about 10lbs. I am just telling you the best way to deal with a dog like this. Metabolically, only a diet where a very large portion of the calories comes from fat and carbs will help, especially a young active dog. Protein is not the answer.


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

sable123 said:


> I have 13 dogs, 12 hunting dogs (3 GSP's, 6 GWP's & 3 Spinoni). Except for two older GSP's, the dogs train all year, 3 times a week at a 12,000 acre preserve. They all wear Garmins. I have one GSD which has been staying with me since a friend and his wife are overseas. 3 of my dogs went to North Dakota this winter. Hunted 7 days straight in temps below 10 degrees.
> 
> There is not a chance in the world a modern GSD would be exposed to the physical stress these dogs are. I have been to so faux herding events and pretty much any well trained herding dog could do well. Physically not demanding.
> 
> ...


So, again. You're a food snob yourself on a GSD forum. Yet you do not work a GSD.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Sable....could it be because a 30/20 pork (protein) food, would be too expensive to create for the general public?


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Samba said:


> One of the dogs appears to have a chicken issue. In the elimination process now. I have been lucky that I have not had many with food deals, but so far this one is looking real.
> 
> It is a different dog with the corn deal. His ears will gunk up when on corn. It is very predictable as I has tested it several times.
> 
> ...


Try By Nature Pork & Sweet Potato, no chicken or chicken fat and no corn. It does have Barley.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

robinhuerta said:


> Sable....could it be because a 30/20 pork (protein) food, would be too expensive to create for the general public?


Yes exactly. The successful pork diets are marketed like Sunday dinner and are pricey. I think also low ash chicken products are just too available to bother with pork except as a novel protein. The pork diets that are out there are really good for most dogs. The best value is Blue Seal by a country mile. By Nature is made by Blue Seal as well, just more money.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

GSDElsa said:


> So, again. You're a food snob yourself on a GSD forum. Yet you do not work a GSD.


Have any of your dogs run, not trotted, in front of a horse for 10 miles in 90 degree heat?

Working dog stuff even on a working farm is nothing compared to that.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I believe I've heard this same song and dance from sable before... any idea when we can expect some new material?


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## GSD_Xander (Nov 27, 2010)

sable123 said:


> Try By Nature Pork & Sweet Potato, no chicken or chicken fat and no corn. It does have Barley.


Orijen Regional Red is a formula based off wild boar and lamb with some additional pork added after the russet potatoes. 

Dog Food Reviews - Orijen Regional Red - Powered by ReviewPost

Overall as a food I don't personally like Eukanuba because of the chicken by-product meal and then the corn meal. The rice I don't really have a big issue with but I hate seeing corn in dog food. For my dogs, corn in the food, causes loose, large, under-digested stools. 

I think it's important though to feed your dog whatever your dog will thrive on. So, if that means grain free, raw, eukanuba, or orijen I think it's best to choose what each individual dog will do best on. 

Something I would like to see in future dog foods is a usage of goat meat. It's very lean and, obviously, high in protein. All dogs and dog foods need fat but that means with a leaner meat that you can add in the best fats to the dog food like those from fish sources. 
====

Eukanuba Premium Performance 30/20

Ingredients 
Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal (natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), Corn Meal, Brewers Rice, Fish Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid], Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Fructooligosaccharides, Choline Chloride, Minerals [Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate], Calcium Carbonate, Dried Chicken Cartilage (natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), DL-Methionine, L-Carnitine, Rosemary Extract.



Calories: 
431 kcal/cup

Nutrient	(percent)
Crude Protein not less than	30.00 %
Crude Fat not less than	20.00 %
Crude Fiber not more than	4.00 %
Moisture not more than	10.00 %
Vitamin E not less than	140 IU/kg
L-Carnitine not less than	40 mg/kg*
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) not less than	0.1 %*
Omega-6 Fatty Acids not less than	2.9 %*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids not less than	0.50 %*
Glucosamine not less than	375 mg/kg*
Chondroitin Sulfate not less than	35 mg/kg*
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Sable.....you have Pointers?
Are they German Wire Hair Pointers or Drahthaars?
*I know they are pretty much genetically indistinguishable*.
Draht is a term for hunting....that is why I ask?
My husband LOVES the breed!! It was the first breed he owned and trained in protection work.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Hunted 7 days straight in temps below 10 degrees.

There is not a chance in the world a modern GSD would be exposed to the physical stress these dogs are. 


What stresses are you talking about? Temperature exposure -- mine are and they are fed raw -- Physically active , I would say so , My dogs are fed raw . 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

sable123 said:


> You are all losing sight of the thread. This is about a dog that needs to gain about 10lbs. I am just telling you the best way to deal with a dog like this. Metabolically, only a diet where a very large portion of the calories comes from fat and carbs will help, especially a young active dog. Protein is not the answer.


Did I miss something?? Is this from an earlier thread? Who is the dog that needs to gain 10 lbs.?

This was kinda weird. Like coming into the middle of a debate with no beginning...


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

sable123 said:


> Orijen is a lap-dog food.
> 
> This data is fact.


Please cite your source. Without verification your "fact" looks a lot like opinion.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Please cite your source. Without verification your "fact" looks a lot like opinion.


How are your lap-dogs doin, Deb? They looking a bit skinny!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

sable123 said:


> Have any of your dogs run, not trotted, in front of a horse for 10 miles in 90 degree heat?
> 
> Working dog stuff even on a working farm is nothing compared to that.


 
Easy peasy. The AD , endurance test, is 20 kms or 12.5 miles done in a prescribed time , any dog showing difficulty or inability to freely keep up or injury to feet will be pulled . SchraderhausK9.com - +1.253.843.1123 PST - German Shepherd Working Dogs The last one I did was with my male Kilo , although I had done 5 other certificates prior to him with other dogs. The temperature of that test was so blazingly hot that we got phone calls around 6 in the morning to move the test forward , get it done before the excessive heat necessitated cancellation of the event. We were there and ready (more or less) at 7 to go . The event was over by 10 -- At noon the temperatures were 103 or 105 . 

If you keep your dog in condition they should be able to work in all conditions.

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Is there actually a point to this thread other than to irritate people? 

I don't care if somebody else feeds their dog rocks.

This thread was not even to help someone with a question about a special problem it was just to stir the pot and inflame people.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

sable123 said:


> I have 13 dogs, 12 hunting dogs (3 GSP's, 6 GWP's & 3 Spinoni). Except for two older GSP's, the dogs train all year, 3 times a week at a 12,000 acre preserve. They all wear Garmins. I have one GSD which has been staying with me since a friend and his wife are overseas. 3 of my dogs went to North Dakota this winter. Hunted 7 days straight in temps below 10 degrees.


Good for you. So every dog that doesn't do all that is a "lap dog"? 



> There is not a chance in the world a modern GSD would be exposed to the physical stress these dogs are. I have been to so faux herding events and pretty much any well trained herding dog could do well. Physically not demanding.


Sounds like there's a lot more going on here than food snobbiness - looks like there's some anti-GSD breed snobbiness too. 



> None of these dog's would be able to keep up on a grain-free food. The "calories" are too skewed to protein and that just does not work for dogs in an aerobic state.


Great. Then don't feed them grain free. The vast majority of dogs don't spend 7 days hunting in temps below 10 degrees, so how would the kind of food that you believe is optimum for that activity level be at all relevant on this forum? I don't have 12,000 acres at my disposal to run my dogs to exhaustion 24/7, and they are doing beautifully on Orijen.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Tihannah said:


> How are your lap-dogs doin, Deb? They looking a bit skinny!


:rofl: Actually I was thinking I should cut back their food a bit, lol!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

sable123 said:


> Have any of your dogs run, not trotted, in front of a horse for 10 miles in 90 degree heat?


Nope, and they never will. I live in a major metropolitan area, so no horse, no 10 miles of open space. So why should I care what you feed YOUR dogs? How is that relevant to MY dogs?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Good_Karma said:


> I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to convince everyone to feed what you consider to be the best foods.


Me either. Unless it's this:



jocoyn said:


> Is there actually a point to this thread other than to irritate people? (snip)
> 
> This thread was not even to help someone with a question about a special problem it was just to stir the pot and inflame people.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I think each dog will benefit from different percentages of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. However, I cant say that protein isn't important since protein is important for muscle mass. I feed neither of these foods; mine is 30% protein 20% fat (minimum), strangely enough it doesn't mention carbohydrates. The fact that you said orijen is a sexy food tells me that you probably aren't very educated so your not very convincing that I should get a higher fat food. I looked up the ingredients for eukanuba 30/20 and the 3rd ingredient (so third highest content in the food) is corn meal. You couldn't pay me to feed my dogs food with any corn product in it, especially not that high of a content of it. But hey, if it works for your dogs...


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

sable123 said:


> Have any of your dogs run, not trotted, in front of a horse for 10 miles in 90 degree heat?
> 
> Working dog stuff even on a working farm is nothing compared to that.


The GSD is a trotting breed. So they are meant to trot, and you can't compare them running against a breed that runs. 

And yes, my GSD has done 10+ mile trails with my horse and me in the past, RAW FED. When we got back she was still full of energy, as was the horse, I'd be the only one tired.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

jocoyn said:


> Is there actually a point to this thread other than to irritate people?
> 
> I don't care if somebody else feeds their dog rocks.
> 
> This thread was not even to help someone with a question about a special problem it was just to stir the pot and inflame people.


He creates this same thread at least once every couple months. Orijen is overpriced "potatoes from canada" and the 30/20 eukanuba/royal canin/pro plan/pet plan/ planned pet whatever is superior. Why you ask... because he said speaks to people with 30+ years of experience.

It's like ground hogs day, over and over.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Ah so we play the game like they do at chuck-e-cheese
You can never win that game. They keep popping up.


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## Tihannah (Dec 27, 2009)

Commenting and advising on dog food seems to be his main, if not only, participation on the forum... I find it a little odd...


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## Mika140 (Jan 8, 2011)

> I have 13 dogs, 12 hunting dogs (3 GSP's, 6 GWP's & 3 Spinoni). Except for two older GSP's, the dogs train all year, 3 times a week at a 12,000 acre preserve. They all wear Garmins. I have one GSD which has been staying with me since a friend and his wife are overseas. 3 of my dogs went to North Dakota this winter. Hunted 7 days straight in temps below 10 degrees.
> 
> There is not a chance in the world a modern GSD would be exposed to the physical stress these dogs are. I have been to so faux herding events and pretty much any well trained herding dog could do well. Physically not demanding.
> 
> None of these dog's would be able to keep up on a grain-free food. The "calories" are too skewed to protein and that just does not work for dogs in an aerobic state.


Soooooo....you don't even own a GSD and you're trying to tell me that all the GSD's I know of who do great on Orijen are what, fake?

And the dogs I was talking about are not herding dogs. They are working police dogs. So yes, they go through the demanding physical stress you talk of. The only difference is that your dogs don't have to do it if they're having a bad day, whereas mine do. Mine don't get a day off because they don't feel well or it's too hot or too cold, or they're too tired. And we don't always keep track of exact miles they run because the dogs run until they catch the person they're after - it's more important that the stats that are created for dog food rants 

So I guess your "opinions" may hold for hunting dogs similar to yours, but as far as I can tell....you have no real experience with working GSD's. So please stop spewing out false information about food products that have been shown by actual GSD owners to be very beneficial for their actual working GSD dogs. Of course the food won't be perfect for every dog, but clearly it works very well for numerous working GSD's. That's a fact.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

My vet has working hunting dogs (GSP) and she uses grain-free foods including Orijen for her dogs. No weight issues at all; actually her newer GSP was too skinny when she got him, he is up to condition now and got there by being fed grain-free foods like Orijen, NOW Grain Free, Instinct, or similar.


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