# Looking for Opinions on spaying



## Miikkas mom (Dec 21, 2009)

Hi, 

We are going to have our female pup spayed. Although, she is a pb gsd (with pretty good pedigree, I might add) we are not at all interested in breeding her or showing her.

I know there are lots of varying opinions as to when the proper time is to spay a female. Our vet prefers to spay before they are 4 months old. However, he will leave her ovaries in if we want them left in. *What’s your opinion on leaving the ovaries in place and only removing the uterus and tubes? * 

Thanks!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

I don't neuter unless compelled to for some reason and have never been in any hurry to spay a female. I have no experience with hysterectomy only though.

http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/1...s-than-without/


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

This makes it so hard to decide. We had two shepherds before and both of them came to us from a shelter/rescue and we fixed both as adults after we're sure they had pups. Not too close to when we got them, but they were breeding dogs. 

Now we have Zeva. I'm worried about her going into heat because I have NO idea how to deal w/ it. They bleed, right? how bad? Do they need to wear pads? I'm just so lost. Ahhhhh!


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## HeidiW (Apr 9, 2009)

I have always spayed my females at 7 months old, and they all grew and were healthy afterward, no problems, did not know they had two types of spay.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Yes, bitches bleed when they go into heat. Some are VERY good at keeping themselves clean - some are not.

If I had white carpeting I would invest in the panties and pads. With wood floors throughout the house I don't bother.

I prefer to let my females get to at LEAST 12 months of age before I have them spayed - IF I have them spayed.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The breeder of Valkyrie strongly recommends waiting until more than 6 mos old, gone through at least one heat cycle minimum before spaying. Did I read it here or was it somewhere else that there is thought that leaving the ovaries = longer life for the dog. 

I had one female that I misjudged on and she went through one heat cycle. No big deal.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Spaying and/or neutering should be based on the owner's ability to maintain a dog in that condition first and foremost. 

FG: there is a post in health called Heat for Dummies that you might find helpful. 

However, the OP's question is this:
*<u>What’s your opinion on leaving the ovaries in place and only removing the uterus and tubes?</u> *


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

My first GSD died from a botched spay and I will never spay a bitch again. I have 3 intact bitches now (1GSD, 2 Poms) not even close to any oops litters.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

I'd recommend spaying her around 6 months. Spaying her before her first heat dramatically reduces her risk of mammary cancer which is a common cancer in female dogs. The benefits to waiting are not as clear cut. 

FYI, there are pros and cons either way but the canine sports article above is bunk. It has false citations and isn't accurate. 

I would not advocate removing the uterus and leaving the ovaries. You're incurring all the risks of surgery and won't reap any of the mammary cancer benefits.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: pupresqI'd recommend spaying her around 6 months. Spaying her before her first heat dramatically reduces her risk of mammary cancer which is a common cancer in female dogs. The benefits to waiting are not as clear cut.


this is my feeling as well until there is more compelling evidence showing the benefits of waiting.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

"Waters went on to report that the dogs in the study lived 30 percent longer if intact, and that dogs with ovaries until the age of 6 years were four times more likely to have “exceptional longevity” than those female dogs who were spayed the earliest."

from http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/1...s-than-without/ 


"A retrospective study of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed bitches than intact bitches and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males."

from http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/1...s-than-without/ 


I am beginning to find the health reasons to leave my animals intact or at least ovaries intact very, very compelling. This is why my animals are the status that they are. I have had to alter rescues that I want to compete with though. 

Funny this should come up as we were discussing this at my club this past weekend. Many people were noting the evidence coming to fore.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

It is of course each owners individual decision and I would never presume to make it for others. 

"For female dogs, the situation is more complex. The number of health benefits associated with spaying may
exceed the associated health problems in some (not all) cases. On balance, whether spaying improves the
odds of overall good health or degrades them probably depends on the age of the female dog and the
relative risk of various diseases in the different breeds."

from 
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

The laura Sanborn article is a much better source than that canine sports thing. 

My problems with a lot of the supposed "evidence" for waiting is that people are relying on other people's interpretation and rehashing of the source articles instead of reading them themselves or they only read the abstract and consequently come away misunderstanding the findings. That misunderstanding then gets repeated over and over on the web. The bone cancer article is a good example.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Samba"Waters went on to report that the dogs in the study lived 30 percent longer if intact, and that dogs with ovaries until the age of 6 years were four times more likely to have “exceptional longevity” than those female dogs who were spayed the earliest."
> 
> from http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/1...s-than-without/


if that is the study posted before, the sample size on the dogs is so tiny that i cannot consider it very valid. a similar study done on women has a sample size of 29,000 women, while the one on the dogs was well less than 1,000. there are too many things that can, and often do, skew a sample that small.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not spay without reason for a number of reasons. But it is your desire to spay, so...

I have never considered removing the uterine horns without the ovaries. My mom had a hysterectomy and they left an ovary which provided the hormones that she needed so that she would not have to supplement estrogen, etc. It has worked well. Not that humans and dogs are the same, but I believe the hormones are for more than just reproduction as in humans and believe the longevity stuff. 

Do dogs get ovarian cancer? If they do, then there is the risk of having a surgery and requiring a second surgery down the line. 

A spayed bitch's womb cannot become filled with pus (pyometra) which is life threatening. Leaving the ovaries would not contribute to this condition, and your bitch would never have this horrible disease. 

Spays are sometimes botched. The bladder and the uterine horns are connected and well, incontinance for life can happen. Leaving the ovaries will not impact this either way.

While a small percentage of dog die during the operation, a lot of those could have been avoided by going ahead with pre op testing. My vet is offering economical speuters which eliminates these things and does it the way they used to. I would not opt for this. 

Other complications can happen due to anesthetic and hemoraging. I would only go forward if you trust your vet as a surgeon. Unfortunately, people are not out there trumpeting about how well their vet spayed their bitch, but every person with a gripe is making it known. 

Good luck whatever you decide.


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