# Sloppy Sit. Why? and is it a big deal?



## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi all,

So I met on Saturday with a new trainer. Our 1st private lesson is on Wednesday night. Anyhow, right away she commented on Cody's sit.

He has gotten sloppy. Sometimes he takes like a step or two back when sitting. and sometimes after he sits, he just starts to slouch a bit...like he has bad posture. His sits used to be cleaner.

So, I this a big deal? Why did Cody get sloppy? Is this something I should spend time on? or is my new trainer getting hung up on something silly?

thanks!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you are planning on competing then it is a big deal.  I have the same problem.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi jax,

i'd like to do agility with him, but really just for fun and "job" purposes, not competetion. after learning maybe just buy some stuff and set it up in the backyard...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

they don't sit in agility.  

But if you ever want to do obedience, rally then you'll want him to have a nice sit. It's much easier to teach them correctly the first time than to redo and possibly have to use a new word.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

gotcha...lol. yeah i hightly doubt i'll get into sch or rally. dock dog could be cool too, but anyway.

he learned it right, then overtime he's just gotten sloppy ya know? maybe he's being a lazy a s $ lol


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think it depends entirely on if it's a big deal to _you_. If you're planning to compete then you'll need to demand a straight sit, and now is the best time to work on it. If he's just going to be a companion and you're only worried that he sits when you say so, then don't worry about the sloppiness. 

When I was doing agility with Cash, I taught him two different sit commands because he liked to sit sideways on one hip. "Siddown" meant, "just go ahead and sit however you want," whereas "Cash, sit," meant, "I need you to sit straight right now." 

Similarly, I teach two different down commands. "Lay down" means, I don't care what you do or where you do it so long as you're laying down. Go take a nap on the couch for all I care." "Platz" means a more "jackrabbit" style obedience down.


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## fatmit1 (Nov 1, 2010)

Emoore, was it very difficult for Cash to learn the difference between the two commands for similar movements?


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi emoore, thanks for the thoughts. yeah he's just my buddy haha, don't plan on winning any titles with him, so honestly im somewhat indifferent about his sit as long as he does sit when i say.

BUT, i hired this trainer to help me, so part of me also feels why hire an expert if im going to tell her "oh, i don't think thats a big deal so move on"...


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

fatmit1 said:


> Emoore, was it very difficult for Cash to learn the difference between the two commands for similar movements?


good question...


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

fatmit1 said:


> Emoore, was it very difficult for Cash to learn the difference between the two commands for similar movements?


Not at all. He was extremely motivated to please so he was a joy to train. *Oh Lord I'm tearing up again* 

I made a distinction between training the more formal obedience commands and the casual around the house ones. I didn't use them interchangeably in one training session. Dogs know when it's time to _work_ and when you just want them to go lay on the couch.

Josh, what did you hire the private trainer for? If it's not for help with formal obedience, I don't see anything wrong with letting her know you don't need a formal obedience sit.


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## Stogey (Jun 29, 2010)

DJ will sometimes sit with both legs off to one side, effectively putting his weight all on his butt. Then other times he does his " I'm a German Shepherd and **** proud sit " it's very random with him. 

Opps sorry I didn't know we couldn't say **** on this site .....


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If you hired a private trainer for specific things and you have no intention of ever competing then I would work on the things you want too. No sense paying for an entire session on the proper sit when you need help with reactivity or focus.


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Emoore,

Otto is taught the same way. Platz is the "jackrabbit" with the "what's next face". Very quick clean and fast Platz. Then the lay down... just like you said go lay down were ever.  

I would tell the trainer your goals that you have for your dog. What you would like accomplish as a team. There are different training methods to different sports. Good luck with your pup.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Lakota has a sloppy sit too. Some day I would like to get to the next level and perhaps compete so I continue to go to classes, we are considered in a performance obedience class. It was really easy to get her to sit "up" straight. Just by holding the treat above her nose a little. Now she'll sit straight when I tell her "straighten up". Same for when we heel and I stop, I tell her "get in" if she sits too far out.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> If you hired a private trainer for specific things and you have no intention of ever competing then I would work on the things you want too. No sense paying for an entire session on the proper sit when you need help with reactivity or focus.


 
that is another good thought. I hired her for 2 reasons. 1 is for being dog reactive on lead, and 2 is general obediance and getting to advanced.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

DanielleOttoMom said:


> Emoore,
> 
> Otto is taught the same way. Platz is the "jackrabbit" with the "what's next face". Very quick clean and fast Platz. Then the lay down... just like you said go lay down were ever.
> 
> I would tell the trainer your goals that you have for your dog. What you would like accomplish as a team. There are different training methods to different sports. Good luck with your pup.


Thanks Danielle, I'll see what she thinks about a 2nd sit command.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

thanks kiya, so the one question unanswered is...does anyone know why a perfectly good sit would get sloppy?


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

Stogey said:


> DJ will sometimes sit with both legs off to one side, effectively putting his weight all on his butt. Then other times he does his " I'm a German Shepherd and **** proud sit " it's very random with him.
> 
> Opps sorry I didn't know we couldn't say **** on this site .....


haha, Cody still does the perfect sit sometimes, but more oftent than not lately he's doing the backpeddle into the sit


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about the sit at all right now, I'd ask that trainer to focus and help you and Cody with the reactivity FIRST.....cleaning up a sit second...


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

my thoughts exactly Renee


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

chicagojosh said:


> Hi all,
> 
> and sometimes after he sits, he just starts to slouch a bit...like he has bad posture.


Whenever a trainer (or other industry professional) points out to me that something isn't quite right with my dogs, I take that seriously. If it's not what I hired her to do, that's ok. She may be sounding an alarm that I didn't even realize needed to be sounded. I don't simply ignore it. And often, with behavioral issues, I'll look and see if there's a medical reason for its existence FIRST. 

With your dog, the first thing that popped into my head is that there could be something wrong with his back or rear end. Could he have injured himself, jumping off a deck or out of a vehicle? Does he play with dogs bigger than him and maybe he got body-slammed too hard? Our dogs often don't ever show us when they're physically hurt, even though they are. 

The obvious questions is, have you xrayed his hips? He's a year old, right? This could simply be a lack of follow-up in training (that you haven't insisted that he remain in a true sit). But it could mean that he doesn't have the orthopedic structure to remain in a formal sit for very long too. Dogs with HD often have a hard time remaining in a solid sit position. 

If xrays are clean, I'd take my dog to a certified chiropractor just to be absolutely sure that I can rule out pain issues before I put him through training (my own or working with the trainer) for this issue. Then I'd work with him on this. Be more consistent with him. You can also build up his core. You teach him tricks like rollover and especially "sit pretty" which causes him to use his core muscles. You can even work with a rehab specialist to learn to use exercise balls to build up core and rear end muscles. 

But if this were my dog, I'd make sure that that everything is as it should be -- a dog with bad hips will need assistance learning/doing these exercises, for example -- starting with xrays and a physical exam.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

hi 3k9 mom,

he's had hip xrays before when he got pano. that was a few months ago, but everything looked good then, and he is not lame in any way. very active, plays fetch, takes long walks etc...

do you still think i should re-xray? thanks again!


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

oh, and yes, he is exactly 1 year as of yesterday


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

His hips shouldn't change in a few months (depending where they started from) based on genetics. But that doesn't rule out injuries (I was adding to my post when you were responding). I think it's worth having him looked at again, at least for a good physical exam.

My guy (who has severe HD) is a running, jumping maniac. But he can't sit in proper sit for more than a couple of seconds. I have him evaluated for pain issues regularly by an orthopedist and a chiropractor. There's pain and then there's having the orthopedic structure to maintain that sort of sit. My guy flops to the side into a "puppy sit." 

You may want to check this out. Animal Chiropractic - Find an AVCA certified doctor to adjust your horse, dog, cat or exotic.

My beagle also tears it up around the yard, wrestles with my GSD who outweighs her by 50 lbs, but she has that short beagle back and it gets tender (and hurts if I touch certain places) after all that rambunctiousness. She goes to the chiro once every 6 weeks. 

Behavior isn't necessarily a great guide for whether our kids are in pain much less whether their bodies are functioning exactly the way they should be.

My preference is always to rule out veterinary issues first. The last thing I want is to start a new training program if my dog has any unaddressed physical issues.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

gotcha...i should add shame on the new trainer for not asking about his hips. glad your pups are still having fun with HD and a bad back. thanks


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

Eh, a lot of owners get testy if trainers venture outside of their "specialty." 

After all, there was a tiny bit of push-back here: telling her not to worry about the sit at all when you hired her for behavioral (not obedience) issues. And that IS within her specialty. It's like she can't win, you know? 


I'd cut her a break.


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## chicagojosh (Jun 22, 2010)

oh, i haven't told her not to move on from sit... i was just wondering what everyones thoughts were on the sloppy sit and if i should "bother" to fix his sit or not.

i've already got a new prong that she recommended, and a new lead. she suggested i get a leather one...so she knows i'm open minded and listening to her


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I agree that it's only a problem (obedience wise) if it's a problem for you, or that it might be someday based on your future goals. But 3K9Mom is right, it's a good idea to rule out any physical reason, especially if this is new behavior.

I have several less formal commands too, and my dogs don't have a problem understanding the difference between those and the more formal commands that have very specific meanings. The reason is that dogs don't generalize well - so to us, it's very similar, but to the dog it isn't. In fact, we need to teach a dog that the sit command doesn't just mean sit in front of us while we're standing toe to toe with them, it means sit at your side, or when they're across the room, or with your back turned. It mean sit when you're in a chair, or laying on the floor or in bed, or when they're in the car, or at the vet's office. 

So when you're teaching more than one way to sit, or down, or come to you, or walk with you, only mark and reward what you want that command to mean exactly. I don't use the heel command when my dog just needs to walk next to me on a loose leash, I don't use the come command when I want my dog to move towards me, but not necessarily run at full speed into a sit in front, when I just want my dog to go lay down somewhere and hang out for awhile but I don't really care where, we use "find a spot". "Down" means to drop immediately to the ground/floor and stay there till I release you, and "relax" means to roll onto a hip and get comfy once you're in a down.


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