# Two Females



## Digiulio286 (Sep 4, 2020)

I have a 10 month old and 4 month (half sisters).. the older one is constantly going after the baby. Most recently it got worse, with a puncture wound to the face. The vet said spaying the almost 1 year old will hopefully help, what are your thoughts on this. Any suggestions on what I can do ? I work from home so I’m constantly with them, and I never leave them alone together .. this is tough. thanks !


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Here are some search results from past discussions worth checking out...

In my experience, no, spaying will not help. If it’s already this bad (typically happens later, at maturity), sadly, you’re likely looking at a permanent crate-and-rotate situation or rehoming one of the dogs. To your advantage if you decide to rehome, it will be much easier now, while your puppy is young and hopefully before any emotional scarring.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Just want to add if the vet thinks that spaying the older dog will help, what does he think is going to happen when the younger one hits that age?


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Statistics and personal experience tell me that spaying will increase aggressive tendencies, not the other way around.


----------



## Digiulio286 (Sep 4, 2020)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Just want to add if the vet thinks that spaying the older dog will help, what does he think is going to happen when the younger one hits that age?


Don’t you just spay the other one before it gets to that point?


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Spaying doesn’t help.
Once females begin to fight, they will continue.
You have two choices: crate and rotate
Rehome one.
Males fight for breeding rights, but females fight for breathing rights. They call them bitches for a reason.


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Digiulio286 said:


> Don’t you just spay the other one before it gets to that point?


That's awful young to be spaying either one of them especially if that does not resolve your problem.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

The only time I saw spaying help with this involved a bitch that had increasingly worse false pregnancies. About x weeks after her heat cycle, she felt no other dog belonged on earth. This was when her buddy was a neutered male - but it pertained to other dogs off the property. Spaying ended the false pregnancies and gave me back my even tempered dog.

I've had several female pairs (never closely related) usually introduced when the older dog was 3 or older. I'd say with this starting with the pup so young, you are in for a crate and rotate or rehome the younger dog. You do not want to supervise a bitch fight so "never unsupervised" isn't really going to cut it. "Never together" is likely more hopeful.


----------



## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Editing this doesnt seem to work... So let me just add that the bitch was about 4 yo when she was spayed.


----------



## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

Please take this advice seriously, it comes from decades of experience, from people who know what they're talking about.


----------



## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

I know 2 females don't always get along but is the immediate advice to crate and rotate or re-home the dog really necessary/mandatory? Haven't two females ever got along long term? I had 4 females before the current two males and only one was ever remotely dog-aggressive and I just couldn't see that change just by adding a f pup to the household.

Isn't this a recommendation/warning not a rule?


----------



## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

WNGD said:


> I know 2 females don't always get along but is the immediate advice to crate and rotate or re-home the dog really necessary/mandatory? Haven't two females ever got along long term? I had 4 females before the current two males and only one was ever remotely dog-aggressive and I just couldn't see that change just by adding a f pup to the household.
> 
> Isn't this a recommendation/warning not a rule?


These aren’t two females who are best buds. They have had a fight involving a pup and required a vet visit.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Stop with the crate rotate crate rotate crate rotate. The usual answer. Put one in a cage, while it’s stress level soars, because the other is out. That’s the expert advice? 

I’ve had multiples for 26 years. I had two sisters for better than ten 1/2 years. They fought twice. I posted about it.

The first time I chalked it up to life w German Shepherds. The second time I felt that it might be on-going.

Candidly, the third instance when I noticed the aggression starting, I engaged in a little butt cracking. (Ok. Maybe more than a little).

My position is and always has been that I dole out the discipline and I’m the one who gets pissed off at my dogs. They do not discipline (fight) each other.

My thoughts are that you step up, monitor intensely and should it happen again, make SURE they understand that fighting is just not going to happen in YOUR household. 

I would also think that if you’re home with them as often as you claim, your situation is fixable. Recognizing their age, it’s fixable fast.

Do the best that you can. Be hugely diligent. Don’t buy into the re-home or the crate and rotate scenario. My God.

Don’t buy into the spay argument from your vet, either. Too nebulous. Might help. Might not. You’ll never prove it, either way.

Stay on top of this for a long while and you’ll fix it.

YOU are the solution. Not a cage. Not a re-home. Not a vet. YOU.

Continued success to you and best of luck moving forward with your girls.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

WNGD said:


> I know 2 females don't always get along but is the immediate advice to crate and rotate or re-home the dog really necessary/mandatory? Haven't two females ever got along long term? I had 4 females before the current two males and only one was ever remotely dog-aggressive and I just couldn't see that change just by adding a f pup to the household.
> 
> Isn't this a recommendation/warning not a rule?


as i’ve said before... of course it can work, but typically those with the knowledge and skillset to be successful at it, don’t need to ask. so yes, i default to that _strong_ recommendation for inexperienced owners.

edit to add: crate-and-rotate is generic lingo... what you describe @Damicodric is not how it’s ever looked in my house. no stress when the house is divided by a baby gate or two. there are many possibilities but it’s impossible to go into every detail without having more info about a persons set up. is this a 300sq ft bachelor apartment, a 3000sq ft house, a farm... are they (broad they) home all day, gone 10hrs a day...


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

How is your older one around other dogs?


----------



## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Dami- I think your advice is sound, and I have followed it myself with success.

The thing is, it takes a very observant and determined owner, and some harsh corrections to make this work. I think that is why people are jumping to rehoming or rotating dogs so quick.

Bitch fights- as you know- are tricky and breaking them up can be dangerous for everyone.

OP- if you want to address this, spaying is not the answer. You need to locate an experienced, no nonsense trainer who will guide you on some major lifestyle changes and corrections you will need to make if this is going to have a chance of working. This is really early for fights- usually they happen at 18 mos to 2 years. I've successfully gotten fighters together again after a fight- but it's not walk in the park! 

Either resign to rotating your dogs, or do a lot of research and locate a trainer and give what he/she says a serious shot. But be careful! This isn't something you want to take chances with... dogs could die, you could get mangled or injured for life (hands are delicate).


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> Dami- I think your advice is sound, and I have followed it myself with success.
> 
> The thing is, it takes a very observant and determined owner, and some harsh corrections to make this work. I think that is why people are jumping to rehoming or rotating dogs so quick.
> 
> ...


Musky.

Agreed. It’s not easy .....

But at ten months and four months, I’d fix it fast. Nobody’s getting hurt at those ages.

My two sisters were about three when it started. The first fight, of course, I had just left out of town, was pretty nasty. Thankfully, my bride broke it up fairly easily.

The second was not too bad..... more of a serious squabble.

When the third had just started ..... I ended it. The details aren’t important, but it never happened again.

I put the one down last year at 10.5 y/o and her sister last month at 11.5 y/o.

They were a joy.


----------



## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Agree- it's not easy- and also they are very young so now is the time to put a stop to it. 

But, you've got to be willing to be very physical and I'm not sure most people these days are up to it. 

Another issue is sometimes a dog fights once and decides that was a really great time- so she'll seek to do it again- and that's a bigger challenge. 

But yes, I stick by my advice to find a very experienced training immediately and address this now, while they are still very young.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Muskeg said:


> Agree- it's not easy- and also they are very young so now is the time to put a stop to it.
> 
> But, you've got to be willing to be very physical and I'm not sure most people these days are up to it.


Very very good!


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

The advice is crate and rotate or rehome for multiple reasons. 
Mostly because very few owners will actually train, supervise and discipline as needed. 
In this case you have a young female attacking a pup, actually a pup attacking a pup. I do not see this ending well.
I cannot think that a good breeder would have placed these dogs and the behaviour speaks to temperament flaws or severe mismanagement.
OP you have a new pup that you must have just gotten recently. My advice would be return it to the breeder for appropriate rehoming and train the dog you have before thinking of adding a second.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> The advice is crate and rotate or rehome for multiple reasons.
> Mostly because very few owners will actually train, supervise and discipline as needed.
> In this case you have a young female attacking a pup, actually a pup attacking a pup. I do not see this ending well.
> I cannot think that a good breeder would have placed these dogs and the behaviour speaks to temperament flaws or severe mismanagement.
> OP you have a new pup that you must have just gotten recently. My advice would be return it to the breeder for appropriate rehoming and train the dog you have before thinking of adding a second.


Throw in the towel. Cop out - on ten and four month old dogs?

Somebody needs to get off their a.. and make it work, assuming they truly love their dogs and haven’t done any of this outta impulse.

Wow.

Next.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Damicodric said:


> Throw in the towel. Cop out - on ten and four month old dogs?
> 
> Somebody needs to get off their a.. and make it work, assuming they truly love their dogs and haven’t done any of this outta impulse.
> 
> ...


Your kind of rude and I really don't get why.
Work in rescue for a while and you will maybe understand how few people are going to do what needs to be done and what the end result is for these dogs in another few months.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Digiulio286 said:


> I have a 10 month old and 4 month (half sisters).. the older one is constantly going after the baby. Most recently it got worse, with a puncture wound to the face. The vet said spaying the almost 1 year old will hopefully help, what are your thoughts on this. Any suggestions on what I can do ? I work from home so I’m constantly with them, and I never leave them alone together .. this is tough. thanks !





Sabis mom said:


> Your kind of rude and I really don't get why.
> Work in rescue for a while and you will maybe understand how few people are going to do what needs to be done and what the end result is for these dogs in another few months.


(You’re)

I’ll work on my rudeness.

I won’t work on copping out on German Shepherds under one year of age.

I’d fix that situation in two weeks ..... keeping those dogs out of the very shelters at which you think I need to work.

Stay on topic. I’ll never buy into the emotional BS.


----------



## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Damicodric said:


> I’d fix that situation in two weeks, keeping those dogs out of shelters.


You might, most won't. No BS, just the facts. 
Two females together is buying a potential issue, two pups together is buying another potential issue, inexperienced owner adds to both issues. Those are facts.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sabis mom said:


> You might, most won't. No BS, just the facts.
> Two females together is buying a potential issue, two pups together is buying another potential issue, inexperienced owner adds to both issues. Those are facts.


You’re not wrong!

Would be neat if the OP actually chimed in and gave us a little more specifics about space, talent, experience and what’s bringing two VERY young dogs to fight ..... while home with them a TON of time.

I’ve got a sable, two year old (badass) WGWL male who is slowly challenging my six year old AL (black - in my Avatar) male.

I know the fight is coming and I’m primed to make sure it’s a one and done.

I’m not an “alpha” buy in, but exert a little (ok - that’s a lie - a bunch) of disciplinary intensity, where appropriate, and these dogs get it.


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Damicodric said:


> You’re not wrong!
> 
> Would be neat if the OP actually chimed in and gave us a little more specifics about space, talent, experience and what’s bringing two VERY young dogs to fight ..... while home with them a TON of time


yes, that would be nice... 
quite a bit of passion going on over so few details.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

@Damicodric,
Very few of us are as capable as you are in handling this. Judging by the questions in the OP I doubt that this owner is as talented and experienced as you are.
I tend to give advice tailored to the person asking the question.
I, for one, would not even want to handle the stress of a female trying to attack another female, especially after a bite on the younger one’s face. 
A dog is supposed to enhance your life, not make it more stressful.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Fodder said:


> yes, that would be nice...
> quite a bit of passion going on over so few details.





Fodder said:


> yes, that would be nice...
> quite a bit of passion going on over so few details.





Fodder said:


> yes, that would be nice...
> quite a bit of passion going on over so few details.


You’re right.

Scratch the record, your honor!

🙂


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> @Damicodric,
> Very few of us are as capable as you are in handling this. Judging by the questions in the OP I doubt that this owner is as talented and experienced as you are.
> I tend to give advice tailored to the person asking the question.
> I, for one, would not even want to handle the stress of a female trying to attack another female, especially after a bite on the younger one’s face.
> A dog is supposed to enhance your life, not make it more stressful.


Understood.

BUT - they’re babies! C’mon!


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Babies, maybe, but the 10-month-old now has those formidable adult teeth, and is about the size of an adult already. The amount of damage done to a human hands can be permanent. I wouldn’t even want to begin to break up a fight.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Sunflowers said:


> Babies, maybe, but the 10-month-old now has those formidable adult teeth, and is about the size of an adult already. The amount of damage done to a human hands can be permanent. I wouldn’t even want to begin to break up a fight.


Where’s the OP?

I’m out.


----------



## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

I had two females they got a long for quite a while till the younger one was around 3 maybe other options would have worked and I did try but in the end it was crate and rotateI also think to try other options you need a trainer


----------



## clbuchanan (Mar 24, 2020)

Damicodric said:


> Stop with the crate rotate crate rotate crate rotate. The usual answer. Put one in a cage, while it’s stress level soars, because the other is out. That’s the expert advice?
> 
> I’ve had multiples for 26 years. I had two sisters for better than ten 1/2 years. They fought twice. I posted about it.
> 
> ...


The BEST advice given! I completely agree. YOU are the alpha. Make no question about it. Set your laws in place and do NOT let this alpha wanna be bitch step into your role.
I have siblings (brother & sister) since birth. We have had a scuffles. But I make it clear, in no uncertain terms, that I run this house. Period. No question. 

You can do this!


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

C.

I thought Muskeg’s comment here was not without merit. Pretty good insight. Some folks just might not want to “deal” with it. 

My point was, when young enough, it’s not difficult to handle. This does not have to be a lifelong ordeal, but that’s often the perspective offered here.

Anyway. I don’t think the OP ever circled back, so I’m not sure who we’re actually helping.

“Muskeg said:
Agree- it's not easy- and also they are very young so now is the time to put a stop to it.

But, you've got to be willing to be very physical and I'm not sure most people these days are up to it”.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Damicodric said:


> I’ve got a sable, two year old (badass) WGWL male who is slowly challenging my six year old AL (black - in my Avatar) male.
> I know the fight is coming and I’m primed to make sure it’s a one and done.


I would correct that challenging behavior now and prevent that "one and only fight". Once a fight breaks out, it will change them and you will be set back.
I have an 7 month old ES. I correct him with "Leave It" when he gives Deja the "looks" or when he inserts himself when I am interacting with her.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> I would correct that challenging behavior now and prevent that "one and only fight". Once a fight breaks out, it will change them and you will be set back.
> I have an 7 month old ES. I correct him with "Leave It" when he gives Deja the "looks" or when he inserts himself when I am interacting with him


Of course.

I’ve got it covered, but thank you.


----------



## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I think when it comes to same sex pairings, there is a very high chance for problems that only get worse over time, compared to opposite sexes. These can be managed by some more experienced owners or newer ones willing to put in the work. That work isn't always easy. It can require diligence and firm leadership. Even with the best trainers, it oftentimes can be a situation waiting to explode at the smallest misstep. It can be done. I would never recommend it to a novice. Typically, people who are asking these questions,or who are already having issues, aren't equipped to deal with these situations. They require an ability to closely read a dogs body language and deliver corrections that are strong enough to end the behavior, as well as break up a full blown fight if it comes to that. A respected person on this forum said they would never recommend a shepherd in an inner city apartment. While i make it work with working lines, I can understand his position based on the amount on work it takes me. I think oftentimes once we figure out how to do things, we can minimize how much work it took us to get there, because to starts to seem easy.


----------



## Leatherandlace (Jan 28, 2020)

Gotta love Littermate syndrome!
We purchased our one female from a breeder we learned about through my other halfs son... When we picked her up from him, her sister was with her, in route to her new home as well...2 months later we got a call, saying her sister needed to be re-homed, due to her dogs and the new puppy weren't getting along, so we aquirred her sister...first few months, things were fine, but soon afterwards, we started seeing the dominance issues, and aggressive behavior start with the one we aquirred later...
They have had a few fights, but here lately things have toned down a bit...
I spoke to several experienced and reputable trainers, and we've had one come to our home, and they all say the same thing, either spay both, or re-home one of them, or keep them separate....Now, here's what we are doing, and so far it's working...
They both have their own crates, that they sleep in, (in our bedroom), we do not allow free roam of the house, and any play time is monitored by us, the first sign of any aggressive behavior and the playtime ends...
We purchased 3 Gappay balls, so work or playtime isn't competitive, and it's working great...We give them 2-4 hard play/work sessions a day, and it's calmed them down, and is working great on their attitudes...
It can be done, but it is work, and you need to be consistent and devoted


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Feral dogs or dogs just simply from an ethologist's point of view are an area of interest of mine. One of the things that strikes me is the lack of female to female aggression in free roaming dogs. This also applies to bitches with puppies. They protect their pups from other animals and people but only from the immediate area around the pups. The females cohabitate peacefully in packs or in sheltered areas without fighting. The only real difference are that the dogs are not confined. Even a human caregiver amongst them does not trigger an attack.

I will not dispute the experiences of others but my research tells me that there is far more to female female aggression than simply two dogs being female.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Makes sense. Our dogs live in an unnatural environment; confined and bored (no matter how much time you give them). I also think that it is impossible to communicate 100% effectively with them.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Makes sense. Our dogs live in an unnatural environment; confined and bored (no matter how much time you give them). I also think that it is impossible to communicate 100% effectively with them.


Wolfy......

Dogs have been domesticated, living side by side with humans, for almost 40,000 years. I’m curious what’s unnatural to them?

My parrot’s “grandparents” could’ve come over here in the trunk of a car or in sock inside a cardboard box on a boat. They are absolutely still in an unnatural environment, inside my home, despite the level of care that I think I offer them.

I’m beyond this post, but if you’re claiming anything unnatural exists to a dog in a healthy environment, inside or outside good home - man, I ain’t buyin’!


----------



## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Damicodric said:


> Wolfy......
> 
> Dogs have been domesticated, living side by side with humans, for almost 40,000 years. I’m curious what’s unnatural to them?
> 
> ...


I am with Wolfydog on this one. There are a lot of unnatural things to be found in dogs especially if you look at individual breeds. Such things as truncated, missing or suppressed segments of the predatory motor pattern are some things that come to mind. Some dogs view apex predators (man) as prey. Other dogs lack self preservation and will kill their own kind for an adrenaline like high and then you have dogs that refuse to breed naturally, it's more common than you think. Dogs have even abandoned hunting in favor of foraging unless in a food crisis. Animals are all about self preservation and survival of the species. The majority of dogs today are medium to low drive. Man has bred them that way to be good pets. They would be the first to die off if left to their own devices as they have deviated that far from natural survival skills.


----------



## jakubnovotny (Aug 1, 2020)

clbuchanan said:


> The BEST advice given! I completely agree. YOU are the alpha. Make no question about it. Set your laws in place and do NOT let this alpha wanna be bitch step into your role.
> I have siblings (brother & sister) since birth. We have had a scuffles. But I make it clear, in no uncertain terms, that I run this house. Period. No question.
> 
> You can do this!


Strong dogs recognize poor leadership.

Sometimes circus tricks can only get you so far.

Pictures 11-15 show momma wolf laying the law down, via swift hard muzzle bite correction, with two lower ranking female pack members:





__





Wolf Ethology, a pictorial study on Wolf behaviour – by Maria Ferguson






www.everythingwolf.com


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> I am with Wolfydog on this one. There are a lot of unnatural things to be found in dogs especially if you look at individual breeds. Such things as truncated, missing or suppressed segments of the predatory motor pattern are some things that come to mind. Some dogs view apex predators (man) as prey. Other dogs lack self preservation and will kill their own kind for an adrenaline like high and then you have dogs that refuse to breed naturally, it's more common than you think. Dogs have even abandoned hunting in favor of foraging unless in a food crisis. Animals are all about self preservation and survival of the species. The majority of dogs today are medium to low drive. Man has bred them that way to be good pets. They would be the first to die off if left to their own devices as they have deviated that far from natural survival skills.


Mine.

Unnatural relative to wolves? Dogs have abandon hunting? Man as prey?

That cord’s been cut for thousands of years. I get your arguments, but I think we’re talking passed each other.

Agree to disagree.


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Being domesticated (as in dogs) doesn't mean their needs are met. Many spend hours a day in a crate, are not allowed to dig, steal food from the counter or trash can, roll in filth. Many have to share toys with another dog, cannot growl at another dog etc, etc. This also goes for my own dogs and I do realize they live in an artificial world (mine!) and in which they have adjusted very nicely. We have a good thing going between the three of us.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

Crates are gasoline on a fire here. I’m done with that engagement. Suffice to say, I have zero experience.

Anyway. Football this weekend!


----------



## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Damicodric said:


> Crates are gasoline on a fire here. I’m done with that engagement. Suffice to say, I have zero experience.
> 
> Anyway. Football this weekend!


Forget that I even tried to make sense.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Forget that I even tried to make sense.


Forgotten.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Damicodric said:


> Stop with the crate rotate crate rotate crate rotate. The usual answer. Put one in a cage, while it’s stress level soars, because the other is out. That’s the expert advice?
> 
> I’ve had multiples for 26 years. I had two sisters for better than ten 1/2 years. They fought twice. I posted about it.
> 
> ...


The thing you are missing in your description, and you may not even think about it, is your relationship with the dogs. The work you put into placing yourself in a leadership role through constant, consistent, persistent, fair training means that they have a habit of following you. They also know and understand consequences. 

How many average pet homes have this?


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

David Winners said:


> The thing you are missing in your description, and you may not even think about it, is your relationship with the dogs. The work you put into placing yourself in a leadership role through constant, consistent, persistent, fair training means that they have a habit of following you. They also know and understand consequences.
> 
> How many average pet homes have this?


I don’t know, so I wouldn’t comment on what I don’t know.

I know a lot about MGB’s, old classic English sports cars. If asked advice or to comment on them, I don’t respond on what other “average” enthusiasts might know; I answer on my own experiences and how I got through something, so that I might help get them out of their predicament.

This forum often rails against same sex and / or same sex litter mates.

Am I to empathize with that, if it’s just not my experience or am I to offer what I think might be a better avenue?

I offered a solution .... step up.

If that takes effort that an owner can’t or won’t offer, then I have little else, because I don’t have any experience with the other advice offered.

The OP asked how to handle two very young dogs from potential fighting issues. I answered how I’ve handled it.


----------



## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Damicodric said:


> I don’t know, so I wouldn’t comment on what I don’t know.
> 
> I know a lot about MGB’s, old classic English sports cars. If asked advice or to comment on them, I don’t respond on what other “average” enthusiasts might know; I answer on my own experiences and how I got through something, so that I might help get them out of their predicament.
> 
> ...


I would handle it the same way. I understand and appreciate your perspective. 

I have a now 15 yo PB X Lab that was crazy animal aggressive. He's never harmed another dog in my home. That wasn't accomplished with a clicker.

Thanks for your post.


----------



## Damicodric (Apr 13, 2013)

David Winners said:


> I would handle it the same way. I understand and appreciate your perspective.
> 
> I have a now 15 yo PB X Lab that was crazy animal aggressive. He's never harmed another dog in my home. That wasn't accomplished with a clicker.
> 
> Thanks for your post.


Understood!


----------

