# Raging Pit owner: He's a good dog, just doesn't listen.



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Here we go again....

Walking in a isolated area of the woods. Been going there every other day, running Kira off leash, and not a soul in sight.

Yesterday, someone has their pit bull off leash, and here he comes charging from about 200 feet away.
The owner is SCREAMING for him to stop, but here he comes!

Taking a cue from the last confrontation, I decided to PROTECT my dog, as suggested.

Thinking quick, I pick up a tree branch, and put myself between Kira and the charging dog. Surer than sh*t the dog was in a maniacal state, and I put the stick basically in his mouth. Kira's hackles were up, but she was was stable and just deep growling, as I stayed between them.
I grabbed the pit by his collar, and yanked the SOB as high as I could until the owner caught up.

Owner's response:

Don't worry, he's a good dog. He just doesn't listen.

Amazing.

I'm not even gonna get into what I said. It may ruin my reputation around here.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm sure that the owner abuses the pit and leaves him chained up with no food and beats him regularly.

How rude of you to insinuate that a pitbull would attack another dog. They are the most loving dogs of ANY dog. They ALWAYS win the american temperament test and they are NANNY dogs. They love kids.

This was probably how he plays! And you hit him with a stick? 

Blame the owner that is in over his head with a DA dog, not the dog that is charging at your dog about to rip its face off.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I'm sure that the owner abuses the pit and leaves him chained up with no food and beats him regularly.
> 
> How rude of you to insinuate that a pitbull would attack another dog. They are the most loving dogs of ANY dog. They ALWAYS win the american temperament test and they are NANNY dogs. They love kids.
> 
> ...


Not sure how to take your response but....

1) I never said the owner abuses the pit. My brother owns a pit, and he's the most lovable, gentle dog he's ever owned.

2) Never insinuated the pit would attack the other dog. But a charging pit from 200' has to assumed the worse case scenario. Unless of course, I should have waited until the dog's jaws were around my dog's throat?

3) Never said I hit him with a stick. The dog was in "bite mode", and I said I put the stick in his mouth, instead of my dog's face.

Oh, and yes we could blame the owner, but I can assure you, that the majority of GS owners here on this board, will NOT wait until there dog get's their face ripped off, so they can confront the owner.

FWIW... I'm a dog lover in general, and am not biased towards any breed. However, I do feel that owner's need to spend more time training their "pets", and should always be concerned about their untrained dogs making life uncomfortable for some innocent passerby.

I spent hours and hours training a recall, specifically to avoid what that man, and his dog was doing.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I think you acted appropriately in protecting Kira. I would have done the same thing. I would have been terrified, but would have done everything in my power to protect my dog. You have taken everyone's advice and have worked hard at being a good owner and yes, it IS our job to protect our babies. 

That is not to assume the pit is bad, per say, but charging from that distance is not a good thing, no matter the breed. That is not to assume the pit's owner does anything bad to the dog, not to assume anything at all. If the pit doesn't listen to the owner, the guy has no business letting the dog off leash in public. I would say that about ANY dog, not just a Pit. 

I don't know if x0emiroxy0x is being serious in the post above, but I think that post is Rude! And in my honest opinion, you did right by Kira.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i'm glad you and Kira are ok. i think Kira is learning
not to react to charging dogs. when you put the stick
in the dogs mouth did the dog stay on the stick or try to
to charge Kira?


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I am afraid with any dog charging at us! I agree, you did what I would have...protect my dog & it's our responsibility to do so. Ugh...


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I'm sure that the owner abuses the pit and leaves him chained up with no food and beats him regularly.
> 
> How rude of you to insinuate that a pitbull would attack another dog. They are the most loving dogs of ANY dog. They ALWAYS win the american temperament test and they are NANNY dogs. They love kids.
> 
> ...


you ARE being sarcastic aren't you?

OP: I think u did the right thing... any strange dog charging at us to me is a danger to myself and my dog until proven otherwise,


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## Lmilr (Jan 12, 2011)

I sounds like you did great protecting Kira! Kudos for you quick thinking.

I dont understand why people that can't control their dog would let it off leash....that seems very unwise no matter if it's a Pomeranian, Pit type dog or Irish Wolfhound. 

And considering the things that ran through my head while reading your story, I agree with holding your tongue on it here


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

> And considering the things that ran through my head while reading your story, I agree with holding your tongue on it here


:thumbup:


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree that you did the right thing to protect yourself and your dog. Things could have gotten ugly fast but you stood your ground and you should be proud.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> Taking a cue from the last confrontation, I decided to PROTECT my dog, as suggested.


Good for you, that was quick thinking and I'd have done the same thing! And good girl Kira for keeping a cool head!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I'm sure that the owner abuses the pit and leaves him chained up with no food and beats him regularly.
> 
> How rude of you to insinuate that a pitbull would attack another dog. They are the most loving dogs of ANY dog. They ALWAYS win the american temperament test and they are NANNY dogs. They love kids.
> 
> ...


I really do hope you are being sarcastic.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

It's rude either way. Sarcasm in this case would = trolling/baiting.




Freestep said:


> I really do hope you are being sarcastic.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

To the OP, I agree that you handled this situation very well!

I did the same last year when two dogs (pittie and boxer) charged at me while walking Ilda (she was on leash).

I 'puffed' myself up, stood between Ilda and the dogs yelling "NO! STOP!" as loud as I could, thankfully it stopped them long enough for the owners to come running.

Had the dogs decided to challenge me -two against one - I would have been in trouble tho.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Anthony, that happened to Rocket and I on private property, by two Old English Sheepdogs. Irritating, to say the least. Glad you both are ok. 

Erm...maybe *x0emiroxy0x *was just trying to be funny, in light of recent threads; at least that's how I saw it.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i'm glad you and Kira are ok. i think Kira is learning
> not to react to charging dogs. *when you put the stick*
> *in the dogs mouth did the dog stay on the stick or try to*
> *to charge Kira*?


The dog kept trying to let go of the stick, and get at Kira. I was going in a circle keeping Kira behind me, and navigating the stick to make sure it stayed in the dogs' mouth.
Then when the dog was within arm's length, that's when I lifted it.
BTW... I can thank Cesar Milan for that one. A recent episode, he demonstrated how to break up a fighting dog.

In case anyone doesn't know....Grab the collar as high up to the jaw as possible, and pull straight up.





RocketDog said:


> Anthony, that happened to Rocket and I on private property, by two Old English Sheepdogs. Irritating, to say the least. Glad you both are ok.
> 
> Erm...maybe *x0emiroxy0x *was just trying to be funny, in light of recent threads; at least that's how I saw it.


Maybe..
That's why I answered with a bit of uncertainty.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Anthony8858 said:


> A recent episode, he demonstrated how to break up a fighting dog.
> 
> In case anyone doesn't know....Grab the collar as high up to the jaw as possible, and pull straight up.


In a full on dog fight, that's a good way to get yourself bit. Back legs is better. Grab them by the back legs, pull up and wait for one of them to release (trying to pull apart will cause tearing). When they release, whip them around and pull them out.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

When I've seen cesar do this it's usually with a leash attached. 

..just glad it worked for the OP, would be hard for a smaller person, like a petite women no matter the method tho.

Leerburg has info on how to break up a fight (warning graphic photos of people with bites on arms/legs) : Leerburg | How to Break Up a Dog Fight Without Getting Hurt!




gsdraven said:


> In a full on dog fight, that's a good way to get yourself bit. Back legs is better. Grab them by the back legs, pull up and wait for one of them to release (trying to pull apart will cause tearing). When they release, whip them around and pull them out.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> In a full on dog fight, that's a good way to get yourself bit. Back legs is better. Grab them by the back legs, pull up and wait for one of them to release (trying to pull apart will cause tearing). When they release, whip them around and pull them out.


 
YIKES!!


Unless I misunderstood the episode, he corrected the owners that were pulling the back legs.

Doesn't it seem that we would be more vulnerable, if we're holding the back legs, and they let go of the dog, and turn in my direction?

I'm in no way disagreeing with you. I respect your knowledge and experience. I'm just applying comon sense....at least mine, anyway 

I just read the Leerburg article.

I guess I should never grab a dog by its collar ...yikes.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Anthony8858 said:


> YIKES!!
> 
> 
> Unless I misunderstood the episode, he corrected the owners that were pulling the back legs.
> ...


They are more likely to redirect at you for grabbing the collar and your hands are closer to their teeth. Got some scars on my arm to prove it before I learned to think and then act. I have never had contact made when using the wheel barrel. 

I haven't watched the Dog Whisperer in a long time and don't have cable so I can't comment on that particular episode.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

When I see Lakota looking for trouble with one of the other dogs and I pull her away by her collar, it somehow triggers her to go off into gremlin mode. So I can definately say with some dogs it could be a bad move.
When I had Kiya out by herself one day and a loose Shepherd came up to us I kept him away by holding him by his collar, but he was not acting agressive.
Glad everything worked out ok.


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## Josie/Zeus (Nov 6, 2000)

You do what you have to do to protect your dog.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

ayoitzrimz said:


> you ARE being sarcastic aren't you?


Doubt it. I didn't see any  or :rolleyes2:


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I'm sure that the owner abuses the pit and leaves him chained up with no food and beats him regularly.
> 
> How rude of you to insinuate that a pitbull would attack another dog. They are the most loving dogs of ANY dog. They ALWAYS win the american temperament test and they are NANNY dogs. They love kids.
> 
> ...


Can you PLEASE quit bashing pit bulls? It's getting really old and you do not look mature in the least when you do so.  If you continue to needlessly and rudely bash other breeds, I will end up getting banned.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

ahhhh...ok, I see what's going on.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

she wasn't funny, she just has a very miguided view of the world around her and a severe bias against pitbulls. In her world no other kind of dog can charge another dog nor cause a fight. They don't realize that this scenerio happens thousands of times a day all across this country with probably almost every single breed of dog known to man.

anyway, before this gets derailed into another one of those threads you did the right thing. People can argue all day long about the best way to break up the fight, to me, get it broken up if you do and nobody gets hurt, you did it correctly.

If you grab their feet, yes, they can redirect on you, they can get away, they can spin around bite you and get away, all sorts of things can happen. you can also get a good grasp, be further away from the teeth and break it up successfully.

If you reach for a collar, you're reaching into snarling teeth, or at least very close. You can get bitten unintentionally by either dog or both. You can grab the collar and have good control over the dog. A lot can happen no matter what you do.

In an ideal world, they both have leashes, and there are two people and you each grab a leash and pull them back and they don't slip collars or turn back on you. 

I prefer to stay between my dog and the other, just like you did. Once most dogs realize they have to deal with me first, they leave.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

GregK said:


> ahhhh...ok, I see what's going on.


I don't get it. Call me slow. Call me something please! LOL 

Or at least enlighten me?


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Hi 'slow'. Nice to meet ya!! :greet:


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

Anthony, All I have to say is, "GREAT JOB!"


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## Rua (Jan 2, 2012)

Zisso said:


> I don't get it. Call me slow. Call me something please! LOL
> 
> Or at least enlighten me?


Lots and lots of sarcasm!!!
Don't worry! I didn't get it at first either. Sometimes it's hard to tell when people are being sarcastic and when they arent on these boards. 

Make plenty of use of these emoticons for us "slow" people, lads: 

LOL


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> YIKES!!
> 
> 
> Unless I misunderstood the episode, he corrected the owners that were pulling the back legs.
> ...


To break up a dogfight, the "wheelbarrow" is the safest way to do it. I have never had a dog turn around and try to bite me when doing this. You don't actually pull the dog backward, just lift it up by the hind legs. Of course, in your situation, you were *preventing* a fight by confronting the dog head-on, and I would have done the same thing... of course, there is a risk of being bitten but it was very smart to cram something into his mouth. 

Lifting a dog up by the collar is risky, but if you are strong enough to do it and you get the right grip (right behind the jaw), it's difficult for the dog to bite you. Still, it's not something I'd recommend but in the heat of the moment you do what you have to!


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

I don't blame you a bit. I would have whacked the heck out of the dog. And he should not have it off leash if he has no control over it. Was it going to hurt her? Probably not, or you wouldn't have been able to keep it at bay with a stick.. A bull-breed intent on attacking is not going to stop so easily. She was probably very dog-reactive and excitable. But why take the chance? I wouldn't. And I would have reamed the owner, that's dangerous and it could get his dog hurt or killed or someone else's.







gsdraven said:


> In a full on dog fight, that's a good way to get yourself bit. Back legs is better. Grab them by the back legs, pull up and wait for one of them to release (trying to pull apart will cause tearing). When they release, whip them around and pull them out.


With Pit Bull type dogs, this is not the case. They like to grip and shake and not let go until they have to. You lift the back end - so what? Their head, neck, and abdomen can still go to use shaking and tearing up the other dog. I'm willing to take a bite to save my dog from more serious injury.

One thing CM has ever done right is break up Pit dogs the correct way if you want to minimize the injuries. Choke them out, or use a breakstick.

With shepherds and such, I still grab scruff/collar to control the head but they are more prone to redirect on a human anyway, but I care more about helping my dog than I do getting a bite.. If that's not the case, yes, it's possible to get a bite breaking up a fight in any hands-on way, and you're probably safer getting a good grip on the hind legs and letting the dog rip yours up (or visa versa) until he lets go on his own free will. 

With a serious dogfight like this, where the dogs don't want to let go, do everything you can to control them shaking each other - that's where the most damage comes from. If you have enough people, this works..
*These dogs are also not Pit Bulls, maybe mixed, but that's what he's calling them. The blue looks like a straight American Bully. However, they fight pretty similarly. Don't listen to what he's saying, he's full of crap. But watch - they choke both dogs out and they release in an attempt to gasp for air. 





If not, this guy also demonstrates the use of a breakstick, which I think all overs should carry - can't tell you the damage I could have prevented if I had one a few years ago. 







There used to be a video showing an owner and an ACO trying to break up three pit bull type dogs, and they were pulling on the bag legs in some parts and you can see how freely the dog was able to move and cause more injury to the dog in it's grip. I looked, but it appears to have been removed from the web.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Sorry, there was supposed to be a goofy face at the end of the post.
YES I was 100% sarcastic. I saw the OP's post and decided to go ahead and say everything our Pit members post on every single thread about pits so I wouldn't have to read it later.

Don't care if you think sarcasm is rude...I'm tired of hearing about pit attacks then all the pit people blaming the owners.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I saw the OP's post and decided to go ahead and say everything our Pit members post on every single thread about pits so I wouldn't have to read it later.


Well thanks for that. :rolleyes2:


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

APBTLove said:


> With Pit Bull type dogs, this is not the case. They like to grip and shake and not let go until they have to. You lift the back end - so what? Their head, neck, and abdomen can still go to use shaking and tearing up the other dog. I'm willing to take a bite to save my dog from more serious injury.


Not turning this into another pit or break up a fight debate, there are plenty of threads for that. I have broken up fights with pits and getting them off their feet (as they did in the Milan video before they choked the dogs out to get them to release) is my prefered way. I definitely wouldn't be trying to pull apart like they did but as I've said before, even better than that is to be aware and prevent it from happening.

-----

Official Mod warning to keep this thread on track and not continue on with the pit vs non-pit bickering.


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## resterline (Feb 12, 2012)

This is one of my biggest fears when I am alone. I don't care what the breed is if I am being charged and the dog doesn't listen (unless it's a teacup chihuahua ) 

I think you did the right thing. 



Anthony8858 said:


> Here we go again....
> 
> Walking in a isolated area of the woods. Been going there every other day, running Kira off leash, and not a soul in sight.
> 
> ...


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

Never posting on a pitbull thread again, or even opening it. Waste of time. Denial is ignorance.


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

I never leave my house with my dogs unless I am carry a can or 2 of Citronella Spray. It sprays 10 feet out in front and just a squirt in the eyes or nose, the dog backs off. It is the most humane thing to use and you don't need a permit to carry it. 

Spray Sheild makes a great product. I've used it several times and has worked 100% of the time, even when the dog was latched onto my arm (Mastiff/boxer mix). The dog let go, instantly, and ran off to it's owners. The people let their dog off leash on purpose to start a fight with my big boy on the bike path. Chance wore a head halter so I forced him into a down on the end of the leash, and stood on it as hard as I could. I saw the couple grab their dog by the collar and lean in to say something to the dog and then released it from their leash. I know my boy would have torn that dog apart but at what cost? His own death? I took the brunt of the attack and kept him safe. He was not happy and was in the process of chewing through the halter in order to save me. I suffered several puncture wounds on my left forarm and had nerve pain for months. The teeth ended up chipping my radius and swelled up to the point I looked like Popeye. It was worth it as my wounds healed, they were arrested, prosecuted, paid heafty fines. Unfortunately that dog had the worst owners possible and paid the ultimate price for their owner's stupidity. I did try and get custody of the dog but the courts wouldn't allow it and ordered him PTS  I know some of you would say "rightfully so" but to me, it's not the dog's fault.


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

gsdraven said:


> Not turning this into another pit or break up a fight debate, there are plenty of threads for that. I have broken up fights with pits and getting them off their feet (as they did in the Milan video before they choked the dogs out to get them to release) is my prefered way. I definitely wouldn't be trying to pull apart like they did but as I've said before, even better than that is to be aware and prevent it from happening.
> 
> -----
> 
> Official Mod warning to keep this thread on track and not continue on with the pit vs non-pit bickering.


I was definitely not trying to debate. I was only posting what I find to be good info to have, especially for the OP as it sounds like this wasn't the first run-in with a loose bulldog and a stupid owner. I'll look for a thread outlining how to break up dog fights with gripping breeds next time, but I like to just type it out instead for he OP. 

The dog is never to blame, it's an animal. So yes, if it has an owner they are to blame - my own dog bit me by accident when trying to bite what he saw as a real threat, I blame myself now for it - I'm the one who controls his living situation and the ones he gets in, not him. Anthony, is there any way to file a complaint about this owner and his out-of-control dog?


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Never posting on a pitbull thread again, or even opening it. Waste of time. Denial is ignorance.


Still arguing with yourself? You open the thread each and every time looking for an argument. Time to grow up and move along. If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute and would rather post sarcastic comments, then don't write anything at all.


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

GatorDog said:


> Still arguing with yourself?


 
LOL!!! :crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Anthony8858 said:


> The dog kept trying to let go of the stick, and get at Kira. I was going in a circle keeping Kira behind me, and navigating the stick to make sure it stayed in the dogs' mouth.
> Then when the dog was within arm's length, that's when I lifted it.
> BTW... I can thank Cesar Milan for that one. A recent episode, he demonstrated how to break up a fighting dog.
> 
> ...


 
*Good job!*

Lucky you weren't bit!

Second - how the heck did you manage to keep in front of your dog? That sounds like a real feat itself! 

I somehow can not see how i could ever keep in front of my dog in an instance like that. (Unless he was trained to stay under unusual distraction!!!!!!!!!!)

Congrats at any rate!!!!!!


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> Still arguing with yourself? You open the thread each and every time looking for an argument. Time to grow up and move along. If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute and would rather post sarcastic comments, then don't write anything at all.


Agreed!

I love people who debate that certain people are ignorant but are ignorant themselves 

I am a huge fan of the bully breeds, especially pits. The only bad pits I've met have been because their owners suck. Pure and simple. Sheeple watch the news and believe everything they hear on t.v. and radio. That is what creates ignorance. They don't know how to form opinions for themselves.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Sorry, there was supposed to be a goofy face at the end of the post.
> YES I was 100% sarcastic. I saw the OP's post and decided to go ahead and say everything our Pit members post on every single thread about pits so I wouldn't have to read it later.
> 
> Don't care if you think sarcasm is rude...I'm tired of hearing about pit attacks then all the pit people blaming the owners.


 

*??????????????????????????????????? *


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Sorry, there was supposed to be a goofy face at the end of the post.
> YES I was 100% sarcastic. I saw the OP's post and decided to go ahead and say everything our Pit members post on every single thread about pits so I wouldn't have to read it later.
> 
> Don't care if you think sarcasm is rude...I'm tired of hearing about pit attacks then all the pit people blaming the owners.


I just don't get why there was any need for sarcasm. I felt it was rude and distasteful. Yes, I blame the owner for having the dog off leash and for not having it properly trained. 

To put the thread back on track- 

Anthony, thank you for sharing your experience! It is definitely something for us all to think about as we go on about our daily lives with our precious GSD's. Thank goodness you were aware of your surroundings and saw the dog coming and could react in a way to prevent anything horrible from happening. Keeping a level head about you was your best weapon


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

All that matters is that OP protected his dog from something that he perceived as a threat. It could have been any breed, even another GSD. That isn't the point of this thread.

I think you had some quick thinking Anthony! And it's a good thing that your girl is so well trained and didn't even really try to get confrontational with the other dog. Sounds like a crappy experience that happens all too often. I will typically use my legs first to ward off oncoming dogs. A nice kick can sometimes deter the dog and the owner from letting their dog get that close to the stranger again. May be a little harsh, but hey, it gets the job done.

P.S. I don't kick every dog that walks up to me. Just the ones that are clearly looking for trouble. Gotta love living in a crappy neighborhood..


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

GatorDog said:


> Still arguing with yourself? You open the thread each and every time looking for an argument. Time to grow up and move along. If you don't have anything intelligent to contribute and would rather post sarcastic comments, then don't write anything at all.


Never has there been a more fitting post on all of the internet. Congrats on nailing it. If this were the Olympics you'd get all 10's, even from the Russian and French Judges.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Chance&Reno said:


> *Sheeple *watch the news and believe everything they hear on t.v. and radio.


:rofl: At first I really thought you misspelled people on accident. Then I got it... 

:toasting:


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

crackem said:


> Never has there been a more fitting post on all of the internet. Congrats and nailing it. If this were the Olympics you'd get all 10's, even from the Russian and French Judges.


WOOO! Thanks!


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

wildo said:


> :rofl: At first I really thought you misspelled people on accident. Then I got it...
> 
> :toasting:












LOL!


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I did the same thing at a dog park with my shepherd. We walked in and a family's in tact labrador ran up on my dogs posturing and growling. I had a "chuck-it" in my hands and used it to try to separate the dogs, but it did not work. I grabbed the dog by the collar (all while the "dad" in the family kept telling the dog to come while it did nothing in return) and then it started snarling at me. I read the signals and reacted - in return I got a tongue lashing from the family "WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING MY DOG" and "YOU JUST STARTED HITTING HIM WITH A STICK!".

People are nuts.

I tried to show the guy how hard I hit the dog by doing it to my shepherd, who responded by trying to start a game of fetch. The guy told me to keep hitting her if I wanted an aggressive dog. LOL!

Good for you for protecting her. I would have done the same thing, no matter what breed.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I know how incredibly scary it is to be charged by an off-leash, aggressive dog, so kudos to your quick thinking and reflexes, and to Kira as well for letting you handle it for her. That shows trust on her part!

Hope you never experience anything like that again, but in case it does, pepper spray is very effective in preventing any contact if you can get to the approaching dog first (I don't know how it would work if two dogs were actively fighting). It has prevented a fight between my on-leash dog and aggressive off leash dogs in four separate instances, all different dogs. I use Sabre Red brand spray.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> BTW... I can thank Cesar Milan for that one. A recent episode, he demonstrated how to break up a fighting dog.
> 
> In case anyone doesn't know....Grab the collar as high up to the jaw as possible, and pull straight up.


Just a bit of input on this... Doing this during our first fight is how my Scarlett dog got her neck ripped open during a fight with our female GSD, Sasha. Sasha had Scarlett by the back of the neck, my boyfriend grabbed Sasha's collar and lifted her up. Unfortunately, Scarletts skin couldn't withstand the gravity and ripped open. He also got nailed by Scarlett in the process. Needless to say, we never did that again. All fights are now broken up by grabbing their back ends and waiting till they let go to pull them away from each other.

But I commend you for your quick thinking and protecting Kira! It's always hard to keep your cool when you're anticipating the worst.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

codmaster said:


> *Good job!*
> 
> Lucky you weren't bit!
> 
> ...


 
LOL... Pretty acrobatic on my part 

I had Kira on a tight lead in my left hand, and I kept her behind me. I kept saying "KIRA STAY", and in praise of her, she wasn't pushing forward. Even though she was standing, her tail was raised and curled, her hackles were up, she was grumbling, but she didn't move!!

In the other hand, I had the stick. I kept shoving in the dogs mouth, while moving around to make sure I stayed infront of Kira.
At the moment the dog had the stick, and the collar was in front of me, I grabbed and lifted the dog.
I didn't want to sound as if I abused the dog, but he was, in fact choking. It was at that moment, the owner caught up, and leashed the dog.

We had words, trust me. I blasted him for TRUSTING his dog, when he admitted that the dog didn't listen.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

gsdraven said:


> Not turning this into another pit or break up a fight debate, there are plenty of threads for that. I have broken up fights with pits and getting them off their feet (as they did in the Milan video before they choked the dogs out to get them to release) is my prefered way. I definitely wouldn't be trying to pull apart like they did but as I've said before, even better than that is to be aware and prevent it from happening.
> 
> -----
> 
> Official Mod warning to keep this thread on track and not continue on with the pit vs non-pit bickering.



In class we were told that if a pit bull grabs you to *not* break it's grip until you can do so permanently. 
Because of the way they bite/hang on, if they are to turn loose and "re-bite" it'll cause that much more damage.
Other dogs bite-bite-bite, pit bulls do tend to bite-hold on.
You did the right thing, Anthony, I have no doubt Kira would be in the hospital or worse had the dog gotten ahold of her. 

There are airhorns and sprays designed for this type situation but I have no personal experience with them.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I must have said this a thousand times on this forum, but still find myself saying it again. Just carry mace with you when you're out and random dogs can be off leash. 

OP... if that dog really wanted to attack and kill Kira, it would have. That dog would have easily went around you and that stick. Dogs are faster and maneuver much better than us. I obviously wasn't there, but most likely a stick is not going to stop a dog seeing red. You got lucky this time, but the next time you might not be.

Bring some kind of mace/pepper/deterrent spray with you and just put it in your pocket. 99.9999% of the time you're not going to need it, but there's always that one time. 

I'll take some mace to stop a charging and aggressive dog any day over a random twig on the ground. And what would you have done if there weren't any sticks near you? I'm sure you only had second to react... what if you couldn't find that stick?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> In class we were told that if a pit bull grabs you to *not* break it's grip until you can do so permanently.
> Because of the way they bite/hang on, if they are to turn loose and "re-bite" it'll cause that much more damage.
> Other dogs bite-bite-bite, pit bulls do tend to bite-hold on.
> You did the right thing, Anthony,* I have no doubt Kira would be in the hospital or worse had the dog gotten ahold of her. *
> ...


The hair on my arms stood up, just by reading this.
I can't imagine this happening.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> I must have said this a thousand times on this forum, but still find myself saying it again. Just carry mace with you when you're out and random dogs can be off leash.
> 
> OP... if that dog really wanted to attack and kill Kira, it would have. That dog would have easily went around you and that stick. Dogs are faster and maneuver much better than us. I obviously wasn't there, but most likely a stick is not going to stop a dog seeing red. You got lucky this time, but the next time you might not be.
> 
> ...


 
You are so right. I happen to notice the stick before the dog got there. I was looking for a large branch to give Kira some "work" to do. She likes to carry large sticks when we walk. It gives her a sense of accomplishment, and if I take it from her, it gives me a chance to make her work for it.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> OP... if that dog really wanted to attack and kill Kira, it would have. That dog would have easily went around you and that stick.


We really cannot say that since the stick was jammed down its throat or mouth from the OPs description. 
Often dogs are quite single minded but if something unexpected happens such as this, it can break the intention (or attention anyway) for precious moments necessary to deter the entire attack.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Never posting on a pitbull thread again, or even opening it. Waste of time. Denial is ignorance.


Thanks!



msvette2u said:


> We really cannot say that since the stick was jammed down its throat or mouth from the OPs description.
> Often dogs are quite single minded but if something unexpected happens such as this, it can break the intention (or attention anyway) for precious moments necessary to deter the entire attack.


It's extremely unlikely that a pit breed would get distracted by a stick it it's mouth. If they're trying to attack and you don't have extreme means to stop them, they do.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

Aloha all, if I was being charged like this, it would be a toss-up on who to use the stick on. OK, a bit of humor above, but being attacked I think a person can use any reasonable means necessary to protect himself and property. 

francis


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

A stick jammed down it's throat is not extreme??


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Anthony, great job! You protected your girl and she did not have to get involved. Awesome. I don't give a flying [input explicative of choice] about a dog that is charging toward me outside of any control whatsoever.

Whoever suggested mace, can't do, have asthma and can cause me more trouble. 

Gwh -- ok, not going to try and spell your user name, thanks for the Leerberg podcast. I sat here and listened to it all the way through. Some of it I learned the hard way and have the scars to prove it. And the idea of grabbing a leash and anchoring the one dog and going for the other is a good one. Now I have to keep a leash handy in the dog room.

I live alone if you don't count the mangeys, and they are all female and all intact. But I have not had a fight in years, and management is key. But this thread is not about that. This was an outside dog. It is unfortunate that even with an owner in the vicinity, we cannot count on them for taking up their half of the battle. The podcast had excellent suggestions for dealing with a potential dog fight and for dealing with a real dog fight. 

One of the things he said was if you're going to hit the dog with the stick, make it count. Hit it HARD. A dog in fight mode is not going to bother with a little slap here or there. Clobber it like you are trying to knock it out. The next time it sees you coming it will avoid. 

Anyhow, good podcast. He does not let the owner with the leashed dog off the hook, he tells owners they have to train their dogs, then when the unknown dog comes, the owner will be able to deal with the outsider. Having a berzerk nutso on the end of the lead dragging you into the on coming dog, would not have allowed you to get in there and clobber the dog, or put the stick into its mouth.

One thing though. My head can attest to how hard the average canine scull is. I think if I was dealing with the pitt, I would have probably gone for the mouth as well, I mean after yelling at the dog to try to get it to stop. I mean, you would have to have a pretty heavy cudgel to stop a determined dog, so depending on the available stick, I guess I would have to determine how best to use it. 

Don't get hurt, stay calm, think.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

If you have a stick and a dog is engaged (and you need to stop it now), there's only a few places to hit it that will cause it to disengage. 
One is the muzzle - right at the bridge, another is the front legs. You can break either the muzzle off or break the front legs so this is to be used only in extremely dangerous, life-or-death struggles.
Forget the top of the head or sides. It's all muscle there and bone on top so you're only going to waste time.
The third place is the spine _right behind the ribs._ Anywhere else on the spine is going to waste time and not harm the dog because of the muscle protection elsewhere.
Again that's only for life-or-death struggles (not your own dogs having a tiff).


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Anthony how freaking scarey! And yes I would say you did some great acrobatics! 

I know I probably couldnt have done what you did, I doubt I could have lifted a dog by it's collar and kept mine behind me, masi wouldn't have been so obedient at a dog charging us (been there done that!)

I really agree with carrying some pepper/mace / bear spray, whatever you can get your hands on.

I carry it all the time since we had a few incidents with a loose dog in an area I walk and stupid owners

Glad you are both safe, GET THAT SPRAY!!


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> A stick jammed down it's throat is not extreme??


You're putting words in the OPs mouth. He clearly stated that 



Anthony8858 said:


> Surer than sh*t the dog was in a maniacal state, and I *put the stick basically in his mouth.*


Basically putting a stick in a dogs mouth is not going to stop it from attacking a dog that it wants to attack. 30-90lbs of solid muscle can break a stick basically in it's mouth. 

Completely jammed down it's throat might be another matter entirely, but that's not what happened here.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> If they're trying to attack and you don't have extreme means to stop them, they do.


Djetz, you said (I quoted for your reference) that if you don't have extreme means to stop pit bulls that they'd attack and I asked you if a stick jammed in it's throat is extreme enough? I did not say the OP jammed the stick down this dog's throat, but he did use a stick somehow or another and deterred this dog. But since you've made a point out of this, which is it, are pit bulls harmless or are they such overpowering destructo-dogs that a stick in it's mouth/down it's throat/stuck wherever will not stop it?

We don't know exactly what the OP did without a further explanation but that really doesn't matter to me. 

What matters is that he stopped the attack. From the sounds of it, the dog _was_ going to engage his dog, and to say it wasn't when we were not there is ridiculous. 

I am very relieved that Kira's okay, no matter what the dog's intent with her was, I'd hate to see all that beauty harmed


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

WTG Anthony for protecting Kira! She's one of my favs (like you didn't know that) and I would have been heartbroken if this story had turned out differently...


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> What matters is that he stopped the attack. From the sounds of it, the dog _was_ going to engage his dog, and to say it wasn't when we were not there is ridiculous.


To say it WAS going to engage his dog when we were not there is just as rediculous. Common sense from anyone that has worked with pit bulls is that if the dog wants to hurt something and you are not physically restraining the dog or already killing it, it's going to hurt it. I never said that pit bulls were harmless or "destructo-dogs". You're great at putting words in everyone's mouth.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

From what I've read, Anthony WAS restraining the dog , he grabbed it's collar and was holding it off the ground, now from the way it sounded, if he hadn't done that, if he had stood there and done "nothing", I don't think it sounds like this dog wanted to come on up and just say "Hi, how ya doin?"

With that, can we keep to the topic vs the whole 'pitbull' debate,,if this dog was a poodle no one would be saying a darn thing about 'the breed'.


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

The Great Dane post was a good example.


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## Kaity (Nov 18, 2009)

Not like OP pulled out a gun and shot the dog..


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Is there a smiley who is sitting on its hands in front of the computer? 

I actually thought a few pages ago that Anthony would have had more reason to pull out a pistol and shoot than the guy who killed the husky in the dog park. 

ETA: Glad that the incident was resolved with no injuries to man or beast.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

In my opinion you did a great job! You prevented injury to your dog and yourself and you didn't injure the offending dog. That being said, I don't believe there is any good way to break up a dog fight. One way will work in some instances but fail in others. 

As to the owners response- They clearly are either just deluded or they were trying to make excuses as some owners do. My mom was walking our dogs with my brother and sister and a small lady was walking 2 large dogs (mixed breeds). She struggled and the smaller of the two got free and ran over, bit Daisy. Stopped and gnawed on Dakota's neck. The lady then lost control of the larger dog. He came running and my mom stepped in front of him and did the whole cesar milan "cht" noise and he stopped and rolled over on his back. The lady came up, took her dogs and just left. Said nothing. Luckily Dakota wasn't injured, likely due to having a huge undercoat.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

selzer said:


> Is there a smiley who is sitting on its hands in front of the computer?


No. I'd use it if there was. 

I'm very glad Kira is ok.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

This type of thing is why I always carry mace when walking the dogs and USE it if necessary. A dog fight no matter the breeds is always scary! I am so glad that Kira is OK!! 

When LoLa(who is an American Pit Bull Terrier), Judge and I were walking in the park a few months back, she was around 6 months old, 2 Siberian Huskies rushed us. I yelled at Judge to down which he did and stayed, I scooped LoLa up into my arms but 1 grabbed LoLa by her head,I maced the other Sibe and removed my puppies head from the offenders mouth while kicking at him. By that time the Sibes owner was there and leashed his dogs. She was left with 2 puncture holes in her head. All in all it was about 30 seconds. It was crazy and very scary. I am so glad that Judge never got involved in the whole thing. 

An unleashed dog rushing you and your dog is extremely scary. I think that owners should do everything possible to save their dog and themselves from harm. At any cost to the offending dogs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

VonKromeHaus said:


> This type of thing is why I always carry mace when walking the dogs and USE it if necessary. A dog fight no matter the breeds is always scary! I am so glad that Kira is OK!!
> 
> When LoLa(who is an American Pit Bull Terrier), Judge and I were walking in the park a few months back, she was around 6 months old, 2 Siberian Huskies rushed us. I yelled at Judge to down which he did and stayed, I scooped LoLa up into my arms but 1 grabbed LoLa by her head,I maced the other Sibe and removed my puppies head from the offenders mouth while kicking at him. By that time the Sibes owner was there and leashed his dogs. She was left with 2 puncture holes in her head. All in all it was about 30 seconds. It was crazy and very scary. *I am so glad that Judge never got involved in the whole thing.*
> 
> An unleashed dog rushing you and your dog is extremely scary. I think that owners should do everything possible to save their dog and themselves from harm. At any cost to the offending dogs.


*WOW! Your dog downed and stayed without moving while his pack mate puppy was bitten by the attacking dog and his owner was fighting with two attacking dogs!!!!!*

*That is amazing control!*

*OTOH, I am not sure that I would want my GSD to sit back and let his puppy playmate and his owner were under violent attack by two strange dogs?????*

*I think I would really expect my guy to fight like heck to protect his puppy and his owner - but that is just my thought.*

*I do congratulate you on such good training that would allow your dog to stay while that was happening all around him!*


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> A stick jammed down it's throat is not extreme??


 
Not extreme to me if me or my dog is under serious attack! Stick down the throat, whack on the head, foot in the ribs - all perfectly acceptable to protect you and yours.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

Anthony, I'm very glad you were able to deflect this dog and nobody got hurt. Although I'm not so sure the owner deserved to get off without injury (joke, joke), since he should have had his dog leashed (not joke). Quick thinking on your part, and yay Kira for not getting all up in trouble too much during the scuffle (I know how hard it can be to hold a dog back!).

As to the other stuff, I'm soooo not gonna get into debating, and the ways to break up fights have been covered better than I could do it anyway.


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## VonKromeHaus (Jun 17, 2009)

Cod- nothing amazing about it, he knows not to break downs. He would have gladly jumped in the fight if I would not have had control of him. I did NOT want him in a fight period, breaking that up would have been horrible. A down was the best thing I could do. I could not protect my puppy, and try and keep my other dog safe as well. 

I protect my own dogs at all costs.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

VonKromeHaus said:


> Cod- nothing amazing about it, he knows not to break downs. He would have gladly jumped in the fight if I would not have had control of him. I did NOT want him in a fight period, breaking that up would have been horrible. A down was the best thing I could do. I could not protect my puppy, and try and keep my other dog safe as well.
> 
> I protect my own dogs at all costs.


 
I will bet that not 1/100 dogs would hold a stay in that situation! So to me it is really amazing.

I know from experience that my 4yo male GSD would definetly not be able to stay down if he saw me getting attacked by man or beast!


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

lots of monday morning quarterbacking going on here. The important thing is that Kira and Anthony are both OK. 

As far as how he handled it, if it worked that time then he did well. Don't know what I would have done if I was in his situation.

So good job keeping Kira safe. Glad this thread wasn't "how do I make my dog stand up to strange dogs? [explain the story] ... So how do I make my dog stand up for himself next time?" LOL    -- just to make sure we are clear I am making a joke here


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## &RIGGS (Nov 30, 2011)

Kaity said:


> Not like OP pulled out a gun and shot the dog..


That actually happened here very recently. 

Shooting dogs not necessary say owners, advocates | ksl.com

Don't mind the shoddy/vague reporting. Our local news leaves a lot to be desired.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Just call me Gwen. 

Glad you and others found that link helpful. 

It's hard to do but you're right staying calm and thinking is most important..



selzer said:


> <snipped>
> 
> 
> Gwh -- ok, not going to try and spell your user name, thanks for the Leerberg podcast. I sat here and listened to it all the way through. Some of it I learned the hard way and have the scars to prove it. And the idea of grabbing a leash and anchoring the one dog and going for the other is a good one. Now I have to keep a leash handy in the dog room.
> ...


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## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

&RIGGS said:


> That actually happened here very recently.
> 
> Shooting dogs not necessary say owners, advocates | ksl.com


 
UGH!!!

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:


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