# You need to train your dog!!!!



## HOBY (Aug 12, 2013)

This was recently said to me about my boy pup Hoby by a person that has never owned a dog. I found myself a little offended by it as I have owned, trained, help people train many dogs. I am sure this type of thing has happened to most of us at least once. Allow me to explain.

I have a 20'W x 40'L X 6'H pen with various agility equipment. A great place for a pup to train and play. There is a young boy, 12 years of age that comes over to play with Hoby quite often. The two are all over each other playing hard, both making happy play time noise. It is nice to watch them in the kennel as my kids are grown and away from home. The boys father who has watched me work with Hoby was all in favor of the set up. In the early visits the father would go in and watch and even participate in the action, although he didn't know what he was doing. This had been going on for months. Hoby was nutz to see the young man. The boy enjoys Hoby so much he has asked if Hoby and I could come over for dinner. "I gotta ask my Mom first." Cute I thought. 

Hoby has gotten bigger, stronger with a good off button and has been doing fine in advanced obedience and novice rally. A while back we had a January thaw. The ground was muddy every where. Timmy showed up at my door and asked if he could play with Hoby. I told Timmy the way you two play you will be full of mud in no time. Timmy didn't care. I would always go out and ask Timmy if he had enough, he always wanted to stay. They played for over an hour and yes they were both covered in mud. Holy mud bath I thought. In the mean time the father came over to get Timmy. The father who looked stunned at the sight of Timmy would not go in the pen. 

He was obviously perturbed so I had Hoby WAIT as I opened the gate and let Timmy out. As Dad grabbed his son he said to me "YOU NEED TO TRAIN YOUR DOG!!!". Totally surprised by this comment my reply, "your son and my dog have a connection you don't get". As they walked away Timmy turned to say "Bye Hoby". As they made distance from me I heard the father say " you are not getting in my car like that, did you step in dog poop", bla bla bla bla bla [my pen is clean as a whistle]. I have not seen them since. They are good neighbors and a fine family. I am sure the parents let Timmy come over not realizing the ground conditions. I feel Hoby loses as the relationship with Timmy was good for the both of them.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Aww I'm sorry, you and Hoby did nothing wrong, Some people are just anal! Hopefully dad will calm the heck down. Obviously his car is more important then his sons happiness!

But on a good note you most likely made a future GSD owner out of the young man!


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Aww...poor Hoby and Timmy. What ever happened to the days the parents sent their kids out to play knowing they would come home dirty. 
When my kids went out to play, if they didn't come home dirty, I asked what went wrong....lol! 
Today's germ-a-phobes....jeez!


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## havery (Jan 1, 2014)

Poor kids :-/

Dirt never hurt anything! It drives me nuts that people don't let their kids play outside anymore :-(

~*~*~*~
Furbabies:
Sofie Rose born 08/2012
Yann von Erzengel born 02/2006


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

How sad for both Hoby and Timmy, poor Timmy imagine growing up and not being allowed to play in the mud, gosh when I was a kid in New Zealand we were waist high in mud and swamp, was so much fun (I was a bit of a tomboy, not a girly girl)

If you feel it is good for Hoby, take the high ground and go around and see the parents and Timmy, maybe you could say something like you haven't seen Timmy for a while and was wondering if everything was ok? If dirt and mud are an issue for them, then they should explain this to you so that you can not put Timmy in this position - you are not a mind reader after all.

Otherwise, with Timmy being 12, come 13/14 he will be busy with his friends and girls etc, so it might not be such a bad thing to break off their interaction now.


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## mcdanfam (Aug 27, 2013)

So sorry to hear this story...:-( So sad! My mother in law....is like this kids dad. She never understood why I allowed my kids to get dirty and never understood why I would take pictures of them filthy and display them. :-/ my girls are now teens and LOVE rolling around with our two GSD puppy's....none of us are clean when we hike, swim with the dogs....my girls love reflecting back on the pics as kids with messy hair, dirty faces and big smiles.....I can't imagine kids not having memories like that. I don't want it in my car or house....but that is why I carry blankets and extra clothes in the floor compartment of the honda pilot so we are always prepared and they can change if they get to wet or muddy. 

Maybe the parents will wake up and see the damage they are doing by keeping the kid away from your dog! Dogs are better therapy for kids and adults a like! Hopefully your pup is not to sad....:-( 
People need to learn to enjoy the all things in life! They are not kids forever.....:-/


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you may want to reconsider this altogether.

You could be setting yourself up for grief and suffer losses.
I don't think it is a good idea to have a 12 year old and a dog , that is not his, engage in rambunctious play because the dog can go over the top . 
All it takes is one accidental knockdown, one accidental scratch, grabbing of clothing , a grip on the hand, a nip -- and there you go , trouble for you and your dog. 

The father now has it in his mind that your dog needs training.
The experience is no longer the same.

A boy in a pen with an adult dog playing roughly , without someone to in control of the dog is just a recipe for disaster.

Even just having the young child "alone" at the house , is giving potential for allegations. Every teacher knows they have to be careful .

Berkshires , UK? You know you have some severe legislation on "aggressive" breeds. 

Your neighbour is of the impression that the dog needs training -- hope this doesn't ferment into some bad neighbour relation.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't think it's a good idea to let a child play with your
dog in it's kennel unsupervised. the father probably thinks
your dog needs training because it jumped on his son and his
son got muddy. if your friends with the father go and have a 
talk with him.

i'm not sure what good you see in loss of friendship with the father
and the between the boy and your dog playing together or was
that a defensive statement on your behave?



HOBY said:


> This was recently said to me about my boy pup Hoby by a person that has never owned a dog. I found myself a little offended by it as I have owned, trained, help people train many dogs. I am sure this type of thing has happened to most of us at least once. Allow me to explain.
> 
> I have a 20'W x 40'L X 6'H pen with various agility equipment. A great place for a pup to train and play. There is a young boy, 12 years of age that comes over to play with Hoby quite often. The two are all over each other playing hard, both making happy play time noise. It is nice to watch them in the kennel as my kids are grown and away from home. The boys father who has watched me work with Hoby was all in favor of the set up. In the early visits the father would go in and watch and even participate in the action, although he didn't know what he was doing. This had been going on for months. Hoby was nutz to see the young man. The boy enjoys Hoby so much he has asked if Hoby and I could come over for dinner. "I gotta ask my Mom first." Cute I thought.
> 
> ...


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## Sp00ks (Nov 8, 2013)

I'd be willing to bet the mother was the issue. They probably both got in trouble for the boy coming home all muddy. Why else would the father come up with this statement out of the blue? I would imagine the boy is just as upset. 

I'd also be willing to bet they don't have a dog for this reason. 

Harry and Lola are probably correct in saying that he will likely get caught up in friends and girls in the coming years and not be around as much if at all. 

The way the parents acted, I'm not sure they should be around each other anymore. What would happen if the boy got a scratch or cut. If they over reacted to mud..... However, I would consider going to check on the boy, but thats just me.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

would you let your kid go over to a neighbours' by themselves with no other children accompanying your child , and no children at the house to visit. distance requiring a car ride . Just this .

then to add to it , to be "locked" into a pen with a wild play session with an adult dog , that is not responsive to controls by the child .

a bit Christians to the Lions .


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

A nice solution for all might be group walks with the dog, the boy holding the lead, and the owner going along. Bring a tug, and if there is a safe place to do so, a ball for fetch after. Need not be a dull walk - some interval type running can keep things going.

I am going to guess the Berkshires are NY/MA area.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I was placing the Berkshires in Britain based on this turn of phrase "As they made distance from me " very "English"
Jean you made a really good suggestion. A group walk . Show that the dog is "trained" . Teach the dog an appropriate way to play and greet children. The dog is accustomed to being very physical with Timmy . The next child might be horrified at the dogs brashness.
This all goes to proper socializing , which protects the dog in the end.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

It did read that way! Well, New "England"  

Thanks! It is all about protecting kids and dogs from adults.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

OMG, mud. It must be the end of the world.


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## KathrynApril (Oct 3, 2013)

I would of probably looked at him and said. "Train the dog to do what? Heat the mud up with a hair dryer before he plays in his pen? Or maybe learn how to stop it from raining so as not to get muddy?" So sorry for your dog & the boy.


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## cwmia (Jul 6, 2011)

I agree with Carmen 100%.

I never allowed rough housing, period. Dogs and kids get stronger, bigger and don't always think first. Things get out of hand fast when you are present never mind when you're not there to supervise. I had a very serious female (with a serious bark) and with a swimming pool and a skating rink we were the house kids came to all of the time. I wouldn't dream of leaving her out alone with the kids. Too much liability. I would never risk people or dogs getting injured...not necessary. Dogs loved the kids and kids loved the dogs, parents were mostly unsure and some afraid, some not. All these years and many dogs later I have never compromised on those two rules and it has served us all well.

Catherine


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but maybe the father was going to take the boy somewhere and was a little upset he was covered in dirt. It could be just as simple as talking to the parents and finding out what would be acceptable as far as play on what days.if he's come over before and gotten muddy I'm sure at least one of the parents is aware of it and it didnt stop them from letting him come over then.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

what is the fixation on the mud? 
what it did do is reveal what KIND of play there is , a lot of physical contact , jumping , pushing, knocking down.

you do NOT leave a dog alone with a CHILD .

this is such poor judgement on all parties - father, and dog owner .


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

OP means well but I'm with Carmen. Not a good idea and not something I'd ever permit.

If dad gets mad over mud, imagine what would happen over a little scratch?

Even though my dogs are kid friendly, I don't even let them pet my dogs any longer. One of the neighborhood kids wanted to pet our sweet little Aussie. I said O.K. Little girl (who has a boxer at home & had petted Autumn before) petted Autumn's head, Autumn gently licked her hand, little girl SCREECHED like she'd been attacked by a lion and ran away at top speed. Poor little Autumn tried to take off in the opposite direction thinking 'lion attack' as well I'm sure (I had her on leash).

Anyhoo, that day I decided no more kids allowed to mess with my dogs in any way. Period, end of story. It's just not worth the aggravation and possible misunderstanding with unpredictable bizzarro kid behavior not to mention kid's parents. :crazy:


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

carmspack said:


> would you let your kid go over to a neighbours' by themselves with no other children accompanying your child , and no children at the house to visit. distance requiring a car ride . Just this .
> 
> then to add to it , to be "locked" into a pen with a wild play session with an adult dog , that is not responsive to controls by the child .
> 
> a bit Christians to the Lions .


I used to play with the neighbor's husky all the time when I was 12. I would just walk over to their yard even if they weren't home. It was just sort of understood that dogs jump and nip and scratch sometimes. It's up to the parents and dog owner to set boundaries for everyone and clearly there was not enough communication in the OP's situation.


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## HOBY (Aug 12, 2013)

*Times have changed*

Thank you all for your responses, thoughts and advise. I guess some times one can get tunnel vision when feeling offended, so I thought I would bring it here. People with good intentions and knowledge can help one sort things out. Hoby is 8 months old. Timmy has known Hoby for over 5 of those months. At the beginning I stayed with Tim and his Dad to supervise. All went well. I would watch Tim and Hoby play through the back windows of my house and go out frequently to check on them. The play was active but no pushing or knocking down ever happened. That would have been an instant game over. Mud flies all over the place when over a frosted base and the ensuing play magnified it. Timmy took my instructions very well and by the way was never locked in the pen. He was taught how to let himself out and to keep the dog in; just let me know when you leave. Cell phones were also in use. His family is across the street and they can see my pen. I do agree that perhaps as Timmy matures and the nice puppy turns into an adult the relationship will probably fizzle. I like the idea of a group walk. I have known the Mom's family for years and they had dogs. Perhaps the risk does out way the good intentions. In all my years of dog ownership and training I have never had a mishap with a child, but I guess there is always a first time. I think I will pop over when I see the Dads mud free car on a dry day. The Berkshires of Massachusetts is my location [I guess being a British Sports Car nut all my life came through] where my home is backed up to a forest......By the way when I was 12 I use to take care of dogs as a part time job regardless of the weather conditions. People were away for a day, days or a week. I loved doing it. I was given keys to homes and instructions for care. My K9 clients were 2 standard French Poodles, a Siberian Husky, a GSD and a miniature poodle. All in different homes. Never had a problem with the dogs or the people. I guess times have really changed.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If the dad was only participating in the playing 5 months ago, he was playing with a different dog. A 12 week old GSD is a world away from an 8 month old. 

It might be time for Timmy to do some other activity with Hoby that is more appropriate, now that the dog is quickly turning into a powerful adult. He may like to get on YouTube and learn how to teach your dog some very nifty tricks. 

Win-win all around.


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## GSDolch (May 15, 2006)

I have four children, when there are other kids involved I have ALWAYS asked for permission to let the other children do something. Even if it has been done before. I expect the same in return.

Children don't always give all the details, they can be sneaky, and also their attention spans aren't very long. Their thinking processes also leaves something to be desired.

My son is 13, (he is also high functioning aspie) we were getting ready to some someplace nice. He went outside, which was fine as long as he didn't get dirty. The neighbor boy and his dad came outside with water guns and gave my son one to play with. He didn't think about it of course and joined in. Needless to say I was pretty mad.

I'd probably be mad about both the mud and the rough play (more so the rough play, maybe the mud depending on what we had going on) and the fact that you did not ask for the OK from the parents first. (granted I wouldn't let my child in that situation.)

Your dog five months ago and your dog now (and in between) isn't always the same dog. I don't mean that your dog would hurt the boy, but if you allow rough play like that then the chances of an accident happening just keep getting better and better.


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