# Amazing GSD Agility video runs (not my dogs!)



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Wow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NecBT2e29hA

Catch the blind cross after the teeter on the first run, gutsy move!!!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Nice! Found myself smiling!








Thanks for posting the link to that!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Really nice!!!

Dottie and I are pump up for her class tonite now!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Nice to see a 'regular' person running the GSD too, not a 20 year old Olympic athlete!


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

Wow, the first third or so of that last run looked quite tricky!

I am really looking forward to the day that India is running USDAA, but I think that I will run her in performance so that she only has to jump 22"--I don't know that I want her jumping 26".

~Kristin


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

This is a personal gripe of mine, so don't take it to heart (I have to realize I'm not always right







)

But as long as our GSD, our WORKING type of breed, is healthy and fit....................... then it drives me CRAZY when I see them run under their measured height! Different if a GSD is massive (over 100 pounds) or fat (probably shouldn't be running at all) or older and you just want to have fun with them still...

But otherwise, I've seen how easily a healthy fit GSD can jump 26" ( and since I mostly run AKC it's the GSD's running 20" not 24" that frustrate me







). To expect less from our dogs isn't giving them the credit that they deserve.

Now if I had a Bassett hound? Or a dauchsund (sp?) or some breed that really wasn't structually normal, THAT I understand. But our GSD's!!!

Think we need to give our dogs the credit that the good breeders are trying to give them structurally and athletically!

That said, I will back pedal a bit on some of the REALLY breed AKC GSD's that walk on their hocks. I'm not sure if they are as structually fit, so maybe jumping them lower would be better for their long term health.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I have to agree with MRL on this one..


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Come on..........can't believe no one disagrees! 

I love to discuss!


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Haha.. When your good, your good MRL!









I want to see my dogs reach their maximun potential - to accomplish that you have to give them a chance to do it. Don't limit them.


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

Problem is, you can't say only well bred GSDs have to jump at 26 and the poorly bred are at 22. To TPTB a GSD is a GSD.

Personally, I think a GSD jumping at appropriate height is just gorgeous. No need to take it down. Afterall, most scale the SchH jump with no problem!

So regardless of what we like or think of our well-bred dogs, we'll just have to stay lumped in with the breed as a whole







so as not to have those that aren't so well-bred able to still compete/play.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I personally, think that a GSD is a GSD, working line or show line, they should all be able to do what they were meant too - work!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: elisabeth_00117I personally, think that a GSD is a GSD, working line or show line, they should all be able to do what they were meant too - work!


Sounds good to me! But I know there are many people jumping under their measured heights, come on, feel free to chime in. I know you have your reasons.

HEY, how high is a Schutzhund jump? I know the jump is higher AND the aframe angle steeper...


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, if someone rescued a GSD, or bought from a BYB because they just didn't know any different, with just the idea of wanting a pet, and later on discovered agility and decided to have some fun and try it out, I can understand that some dogs may not have the structure, the health or the physical ability to do what a GSD was meant to do, but still wanted to enjoy different activities with their dog, and enjoyed the involvement with them. Nothing wrong with that, and to the owner's credit for doing SOMETHING with their dog. (But this is a good example of why the mindset of "I only want a nice pet, why should I go to a breeder that works and titles their dogs" show its flaws). 

The Schutzhund jump is a meter high (39 inches!) Gryffie could sailed over that with room to spare at six months!! (that was my attempt at boosting the baby-gate up to keep him in one part of the house - didn't work!)

Keeta can do 33 inches ridiculously easy, but she struggles mightely at clearing 39 inches - highlights the need for breeding for soundness and good structure (as opposed to a dog that just ended up with whatever structure the gods decreed







), and another good example as to why we need a breed-worthiness test - let it be agility (with full-sized jumps, or Schutzhund, or some other venue.)


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

But how often do dogs in Schutzhund perform that jump? If I'm running at the highest levels in agility, my dog might have to perform 16-20 jumps in a single run (NADAC Elite Jumpers). Even though other courses have fewer jumps, that's still many, many jumps over a two-day trial, not to mention how many jumping efforts over a lifetime of training.

In NADAC, 20" is the only option. USDAA would be 26" or 22" in performance. CPE would be 24" or 20" as an "early vet". AKC would be 24", I guess (don't plan on doing AKC). I don't know that going back and forth between 20, 22, 24, and/or 26 is a good thing.

Won't jumping lower potentially keep a dog sounder for longer?

India is very tall, 27", and although quite lean, she's very long in body too. I'm also concerned about weave poles, and will be looking for venues/clubs that offer 24" pole spacing.

~Kristin


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## Achielles UD (May 26, 2001)

Granted they don't take the meter jump several times, however, I am not saying raise the agility jumps to a meter! lol Even just 26 is fine. 

I am just still dabbling in agility but have already decided to jump higher in obedience with Moxie. She is right on the 3 or 4 boards for the broad jump and I want 4 boards lol. So instead of jumping her at 22 which she would qualify/measure at I'll be doing 24 with her to get the 4 boards on the broad.

I think that the slightly higher jumps shouldn't be an issue for a dog, IF the dog is well built. Not to mention, serious agility folks really work on the dogs conditioning and stretching and warm ups to prevent or at least ward off any potential forseeable injuries. 

Now if these trials were consistantly on concrete, I'd say lower the jumps. But in grass and the new giving rubber floors... don't think it would harm as much as some fear.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: Won't jumping lower potentially keep a dog sounder for longer?


If your dog is STRUCTURALLY not ideal for agility, by either standard calling for something like dwarfism (Corgi? Dauchsund ? Bassett Hound? etc) or some other body type that clearly isn't a normal 'dog' structure (and my mental picture of that is a wolf/coyote/fox type thing that clearly works or they would be extinct







) then I would agree. 

Truthfully, really big dogs also I would question. Because they are also alot larger than what a normal higher level course in agility would easily be able to go thru. I've seen wolfhounds (really tall and long) and St Bernards (really heavy set for size) that I have to say PHYSICALLY aren't built well for an agility course. There is so much more weight put on their bones/joints when a 100+ pound dog is coming down hard and trying to turn tight.

But for a normal sized GSD that is FIT and a good weight, they are meant to herd/run all day. Turn tight and run fast. I can hike for MILES and MILES with my dogs in the woods and they tear thru the woods faster, turn tighter when chasing each other, and jump over higher obstacles with trees over the trail, then I EVER ask on an agility course.

Now if I had a Bassett Hound, I wouldn't have the same expectations of jumping, running and tight turns. But they STRUCTUALLY are built much differently.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I see alot of people take advantage(?) of the lower jump option for a number of reasons..older dog, dog may be on the borderline of height, and depending on the fitness/breed of dog.

Also, I have noticed alot of taller dogs (in good shape) can do a course faster jumping lower/less effort. 

I see very very few dogs jumping 24" anymore(akc, nadac, cpe) 
I loved doing 24 inch with my female, she was 26" at the shoulders so clearing 24 inches was no problem for her, at the time, there were no other options unless you were running vets.

Nadac at one point, upped their height, my aussie was shorter than her jump height and I chose to drop her down to 20, which was her jump height prior to the change. When she went in as a vet , I said what the heck, and dropped her to 16,,She definately had alot more fun, zooming around the courses. 

I also am of the mind, if your going to jump, stick with the same height (unless your a vet and wish to drop) in all venues, when you start messing around (or do alot of runs on a wknd) some dogs tend to get sloppy and bar knocking occurs.

I think for the less competetive, people who just want to go out and have some fun with their dog, the lower jump height is a good option they can take advantage of if they choose to.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i have to agree with Diane...the general public that just wants to do agility for fun a lower height would be doable.

we have a HUGE mountain dog in our agility class.....i remember the first time i saw her she must go 120 plus pounds. i wondered if she was even going to fit through the tire...............but, i also noticed because of her size the weave poles were a struggle..........

for more competitive people i do agree a higher appropriate jump is more challenging..........


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Good comments!



> Quote:for more competitive people i do agree a higher appropriate jump is more challenging..........


For me, it's not about how competitive the handler is, it's about the dogs. I don't think it's allowing our dogs to show their talents and abilities as well if you 'dummy' down the heights for them (as long as they PHYSICALLY are able). The course is different for the dogs with take off/landing and muscles. But, to me, it's certainly not more than we could ask of our particular breed. 

I know some people start out in the lower heights cause they think it's easier for the handler to not have to worry about the higher jumps. But that I really don't get, cause they are planning to move up to their proper height at a later date when THEY are more confident.

The reason I don't get it, is because THE COURSE is the same. And how we as handlers need to think of that course and how to get our dogs thru it, is exactly the same. So while we are getting better at OUR part of handling, we aren't at the same time giving our dogs the same chance to learn to tear thru a course at speed, watching us, and putting that bit extra effort in to get over the jumps!

Comments???


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think starting off (as in training) at lower heights is definately a 'must',,but I agree in the end, when trialing, especially the different venues, to keep the dog at one height is the way to go. And continued training at 'said' height as well. 

I also agree with your last paragraph, however if a dog is jumping at 24/26" they shouldn't 'have' to put extra effort into it, it should just become a natural effortless obstacle. When it becomes to much of an effort, (most likely for physical reasons) then I recommend dropping back.

Tho we have a breed, that I think is one of the easiest to train in just about anything, and the ones doing agility tend to love it, unfortunately we have a breed that doesn't have a real long 'shelf' life when it comes to agility.


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

I don't do much NADAC, but I do some (1 or 2 trials per year) and India would jump 20" there. It shouldn't be an issue to jump lower just a couple of trials per year, should it?

She is perfectly capable of jumping up to 26", but I thought that jumping her lower would benefit her long-term health. It sounds like most of you don't think that it's an issue.

But I still have a disparity between CPE and USDAA--24" vs. 26". Close enough to not cause issues?

~Kristin


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

agree that its mainly the people who are the competitive ones..........although if you watch some dogs.....especially my dog when he sees the others run through the course you can see how much he wants to be out there doing it.....so, maybe dogs aren't outwardly competitive as in a people sense, but in a dog sense i think there is something there in the excitment that tells us this..........may sound odd to some, but i see it in my agility dog............or maybe i got it all wrong and i am seeing his prey drive and not competitive drive.............LOL


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think if you (or anyone) is a weekend warrior, where your out every weekend doing 4plus courses a day, training a couple times a week,,I think it will definately end up 'wearing' on the dog..maybe not so much when they are young,,but as they age, those 2 -3 day wknds of all those courses are going to catch up with them(


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: But I still have a disparity between CPE and USDAA--24" vs. 26". Close enough to not cause issues?


I've found if you train at both 24" and 26", a dog that has learned to think while jumping, picks up the difference and 2" doesn't seem to physically be a big deal.


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## mygsds (Jan 7, 2007)

There are sometimes valid reasons for not jumping higher. I started Kahlua at 24" in CPE but we were having a bark knocking problem so I dropped her to her measured jump height of 20". In AAC she measures to jump 26"/ As we sometimes will have AAC in the morning of our club trial and CPE in the afternoon it was too much of a change to move from jumping 20-26 or vice versa so I started her in AAC at 22" Specials.
I can move her up at any time once in her career but I have not yet decided if I am going to do so. 

She can jump 26" and clear the bars and I sometimes set them up for training but honestly I am comfortable with her at 22" in AAC. We don't do much NADAC but again she will be at 20" when she does and I started her in AKC 20" also. 

Maybe when we are more of a team I will enter her again at 24" in CPE for a trial and see how she does. 

Pat


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## mygsds (Jan 7, 2007)

HMMM I would think that if I jumped Kahlua at a higher height I would have an easier time handling - it should take her longer to clear the jump and allow me some catch up time )

Pat


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