# Too Busy to Train



## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

OK, don't flame me for being too busy to train. But I actually am. I usually repeat and name the good behavior and Rasa did and Nimai picks up on it FAST. It took 3 repeats of "treat" and 5 repeat sessions of "elevator" or "lets go" to get what I want.

So Nimai is a fairly fast learner, WHEN HE WANTS TO BE. He has not learned (rather applied) "Stay" nor "Come back" "leash", etc, especially when he has something better to do, such as sniffing new territory, chasing, acting stupid on walks. (after all he is 12 months old).

I need to teach these things to save his life from cars and other dangers, quickly. There are almost no cars around here, but my track record shows that there are just enough.

So, do electronic collars work? Or should I start clicker? Again don't chastise me too hard as I really need to get these commands down and fast, with little effort. 
He is with me 24/7 so I have a lot of undedicated time with him. Walks 3-5 times a day, up and down around the shop 10+ times a day, etc.

Suggestions?

francis


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm confused as to why you have time for up to 5 walks a day, going to a shop 10 plus times a day, and lots of undedicated time (by this I take it to mean time that isn't devoted to something in particular) but you don't have "time" to train.

Keep your dog on a leash until you find time to train him, so he doesn't get hit by a car (which seems to be your concern, as would be mine with an untrained dog in an unfenced area).


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

Rerun said:


> I'm confused as to why you have time for up to 5 walks a day, going to a shop 10 plus times a day, and lots of undedicated time (by this I take it to mean time that isn't devoted to something in particular) but you don't have "time" to train.
> 
> Keep your dog on a leash until you find time to train him, so he doesn't get hit by a car (which seems to be your concern, as would be mine with an untrained dog in an unfenced area).


I'm confused too. Maybe you mean that you do not have the desire to train. And if thats true, then I suggest hiring a trainer. Many will argue that effects the bond, but its certainly a better alternative to ...


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

The 5 walks a day are not dedicated to Nimai. It is time that i need to go and do business so I combine walks/exercise. (walk to post office 2 blocks away, Supervise activities in the shop a few times a day.) These may not be quality times, but he is not locked in a crate all day. 

He is on a leash every time we go down the street, cars or no cars and there is no opportunity to run out on the road as he is always with me. 

My question is more, "what is the fastest and most effective way to train". 

Francis


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

also in my experience, electronic collars do work. But you will have to be out there with your dog.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I think your post is a little confusing. Did you just adopt Nimai, and because he is with you 24/7 you need him trained quickly for his safety within the environment you work in?


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

if your dog is with you that much, you definitely have time to train. training sessions don't need to be "formal" you can use any time to teach things to your dog. if you walk him a lot he shouldn't act "stupid" use that time to teach him leash manners. when i walk with my dog, we work on the "look" command or when i stop walking, he stops walking and sits. before we cross the street, i tell him "wait" and he waits until i say it's ok to go. that's huge for keeping a dog out of the street! all these things can be taught while out for walks. and even if you dedicate 10 minutes to working with him in your home (surely you can spare that) he will learn. you have already said he's smart, the fastest and easiest way to train him is to actually DO it!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

adas said:


> He is with me 24/7 so I have a lot of undedicated time with him. Walks 3-5 times a day, up and down around the shop 10+ times a day, etc.


Is there any reason you can't train him during this "undedicated" time? Or is the issue that you don't have a place to train?


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Electronics collars are a tool for training, not a quick fix. You still need to train and reinforce with an e-collar. You're not going to be able to just put it on and expect your dog to be "fixed".


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

adas said:


> My question is more, "what is the fastest and most effective way to train".


Train WHAT? What are the specific behaviors you want? Coming when called and walking nicely on the leash?

The clicker is excellent for teaching and reinforcing good behaviors in young pups. Once they figure out the system, it's very effective and they can learn quickly with this method.

Since your pup is 12 weeks old, don't even starting thinking about e-collars yet. The fastest and most effective way is not always the best way, IMO. For example, if you put an e-collar on a 12 week old pup and shock him when he runs toward the street, he'll learn to avoid the street right quick, but he'll also learn to avoid other things... like the sidewalk, or going for walks at all.


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## Mac's Mom (Jun 7, 2010)

I think I understand. You're a nice person with a good dog. You're busy running around living life with your dog by your side. Thats awesome. You don't feel like you have the time to train. I've been there. My advice again is hire a trainer.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks everyone, your suggestions are appreciated. I know you are a bit confused that if I have time to go out 10 times a day then I should have time to train. But it is not like that. My work day starts at 6am and ends at 8pm and between running 3 businesses, instructing 15 workers, meeting with my sales staff, dealing with new and current military customers, and dispatching 3 trucks and usually having over 75 phone calls a day, I really do not have spare time to dedicate training time.

I am looking to train during my "outings" but I have found just naming a behavior is slow and not guaranteed. For example Nimai, knows "leash" means to come and sit beside me and he does it everytime when we are preparing to go out on longer morning walks. But he totally ignores "leash" when it is time to go home and i have to trick him into coming near me to leash him when we are leaving the fields and going along the roads. He knows "stop" when we are walking along or in my case is pulling me in my wheelchair, but will he "stop" for sure if there is a dog on the other side of the street and a truck is coming along, and actually pulls ME into the path of the truck?

What are the guaranteed methods of training to obey ME, if he hits his "instinctive drive mode"?

francis


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Get a trainer. 

I have felt that as great as the forum has been for giving me background information and for learning from the experiences of fellow members, I still feel INCREDIBLY lost without someone's professional opinion. 

The way that everyone on here likes to recommend is getting in a class, or doing private sessions with a trainer. Both are good, but you'll still need to dedicate some time to them. But honestly, if you are THAT busy, training isn't a hobby for you, and you just want a well-behaved pet, I would research board and train. I know TONS of people are against this idea, but look at it from the other side, well-behaved and safe pet versus walking hazard.


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## cta (May 24, 2011)

thank you for clarifying...it was a little confusing. if you feel like you can't do it yourself, you should invest in a trainer like the others said. you need that dog to be spot on for your safety, which is incredibly important, so seeking professional help might just be in order.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

adas said:


> I am looking to train during my "outings" but I have found just naming a behavior is slow and not guaranteed. For example Nimai, knows "leash" means to come and sit beside me and he does it everytime when we are preparing to go out on longer morning walks. But he totally ignores "leash" when it is time to go home and i have to trick him into coming near me to leash him when we are leaving the fields and going along the roads.


So you are taking him to a place where he runs off-leash, then you call him to you when you are ready to go back? DON'T do that until his recall is solid. If he gets it into his mind that he doesn't want to come to you, you can't MAKE him come to you, so that is a dangerous situation. As you know, and is why you're asking us the quickest most foolproof way to train him.



> He knows "stop" when we are walking along or in my case is pulling me in my wheelchair, but will he "stop" for sure if there is a dog on the other side of the street and a truck is coming along, and actually pulls ME into the path of the trucks?


Honestly, in your situation, I would go a professional trainer and have them train for you. Your days are busy enough and there are only so many hours in a day--the "come" command and the "stop" command need to be absolutely solid for this dog and will require time and work; you are not in a position to do that yourself and there's no shame in that. You could do a board-and-train type situation for a few weeks, and then the trainer will work with you and show you how to continue reinforcing the commands.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

make time to train. get up an hour early in the am and train.take several 5 to 10 minutes breaks during the day to train. the fastest and the most
effective way to train is to train. train everyday, several times
a day. train indoors and outside. your dog is with you all day.
take time out for your dog and don't look for gadgets to help
you to get out of training.



adas said:


> The 5 walks a day are not dedicated to Nimai. It is time that i need to go and do business so I combine walks/exercise. (walk to post office 2 blocks away, Supervise activities in the shop a few times a day.) These may not be quality times, but he is not locked in a crate all day.
> 
> He is on a leash every time we go down the street, cars or no cars and there is no opportunity to run out on the road as he is always with me.
> 
> ...


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> make time to train. get up an hour early in the am and train.take several 5 to 10 minutes breaks during the day to train. the fastest and the most
> effective way to train is to train. train everyday, several times
> a day. train indoors and outside. your dog is with you all day.
> take time out for your dog and don't look for gadgets to help
> you to get out of training.


I would have to agree whole-heartedly with doggiedad. I have seen many dogs ruined because their owners are looking for a "quick fix" in an e-collar, pinch collar, or other tools. Tools are just that, tools. And they don't work unless you know how to use them properly and put the effort into the training. If you truly do not have the time and cannot make the time, hire a trainer. Puppies take time and to be honest that probably should have been thought of before you took on a puppy. A good trainer is priceless and is probably the quickest way to get where you want your dog to be behavior wise. Also, Freestep is spot on with the recall advice. Don't let him off leash until your recall is solid. Too much of a risk especially with cars around.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> make time to train. get up an hour early in the am and train.take several 5 to 10 minutes breaks during the day to train. the fastest and the most
> effective way to train is to train. train everyday, several times
> a day. train indoors and outside. your dog is with you all day.
> take time out for your dog and don't look for gadgets to help
> you to get out of training.


Really? The guy's in a wheelchair and works 14 hour days. Remember, he also has to eat and sleep somewhere in there... IMO his situation really warrants a professional to help him out.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

12 months, not 12 weeks old.

I cringe when I hear someone say "I have a busy life or I am a busy person" I rarely use this expression and when people say that of me I always say I have time for you. So I took my chances here.

I am near military housing and a few military wives of MP K-9's so I have been inquiring as to who has time to help train. I went to Petco to an introductory class where I was the only person there and the trainer was quite a knowledgeable person and she said I was on the right track and basically could not teach me anything. I think she has to deal a lot with owners who dogs will not "come" and when they do come the owners give the dog a whack. Duhhh.

Anyway, I will organize my lifestyle to put in some dedicated structured time to do some formal training and keep up my search for a trainer/helper.

Further concerns:
Yes, when Nimai, picks up a bad habit it is very hard to break him of it. 
For instance, he is a nervous dog and barks and snaps at one of my workers. I cannot figure out what he dislikes about him, other than he is now maybe doing it out of habit. At 6:00 am when the worker is 2 blocks or so away he will start barking when Nimai hears his truck and when the worker comes to clock in, I have to restrain Nimai as he will go after him. The worker went on vacation for 2 weeks at Christmas and Nimai did not know what was happening. He would stare at the parking lot at 6am and mumble/growl and not bark, as if disappointed at not having someone to hasstle. 
During the day the worker will pet him and all is well, then maybe when my back is turned, Nimai will threaten the worker again. The worker has tried to make peace with Nimai, but I just have to keep Nimai under supervision when they are together. I am trying to figure it out, but it is a mistery to us. 
Francis


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i missed the wheelchair part. this is a case that warrants
being trained by a professional even if he has to send him away.



Freestep said:


> Really? The guy's in a wheelchair and works 14 hour days. Remember, he also has to eat and sleep somewhere in there... IMO his situation really warrants a professional to help him out.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

Freestep said:


> Really? The guy's in a wheelchair and works 14 hour days. Remember, he also has to eat and sleep somewhere in there... IMO his situation really warrants a professional to help him out.


Yes I work, but I do not at all need to work. I totally love what i do and that is why work the 12-14 hours. I am single and eat and sleep on site, have friends over, have a pool and since I am in Hawaii, I do not need to hibernate for the winter
. 
Nimai's disposition is not really troubling as there are 4 homeless shelters, a US vets and a US vets "crazy house" nearby so the area always seems to have issues around me. There are no police patrols, or city electrical, water sewer and no MP's anymore as it is a former military base that has been de-commissioned and the military is backing out fast. It is known that I have a German Shep that is quite protective and I have had no theft problems at all. And 750 mostly vacant acres around me. 

But I really need to be in control of Nimai as the threat of him biting and me being sued is certainly there as well as protecting the punk from cars and other dangers.

So all your suggestions and training methods are very welcome. 

Francis


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## Holmeshx2 (Apr 25, 2010)

Just a few things. While I can fully appreciate an actual class might be difficult for you right now I do believe a trainer would be of great use.. HOWEVER, some people think training takes so much time but honestly if you can set aside 10 minutes a day to train you will see a huge difference in the dog. People think training takes so much time but honestly if you set aside just a few minutes even 5 minutes twice a day which every single person should be able to make work will go a long way in teaching a dog. Also you have a huge advantage that you have the dog with you all day. Does the dog like treats? If so keep a treat pouch with you all day when you go to the mail box have dog sit reward have him stay while you put mail in or take mail out "good stay" and reward. You have all day to reinforce the behaviors you are looking for and putting a name and reward with the action that is HUGE if you utilize it. Things like have already been recommended don't just let him offleash then call him to you when you go to take him away he will learn not to come because it means something bad (play ends) so you just don't do it until his recall is solid. When he comes to you tell him "good come" reward then tell him "go play" or whatever you want so he can continue playing. One time he gets to you hook his leash then let him play another minute longer and keep doing it so he learns not every time he comes to you he's going to have to leave.

Oh almost forgot an E-collar will not make a difference because you still have to train the behaviors with the E collar its just a tool not a trainer. So if you use a prong, an E collar, a favorite toy, a clicker, treats and marker word etc.. all will do basically the same because it all still takes effort on your part and kind of the same time if you find what works best for the dog. So no an E collar will not train him if you dont put the time into training but like I said you can do it with a trivial amount of time spent each day you dont need hours just 5 minutes in the morning and evening maybe 1 more during lunch time and you would be golden plus little quick reinforcements during the day when he does something good. Don't worry about correcting bad worry about reinforcing the good behavior.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Holmeshx2 said:


> don't just let him offleash then call him to you when you go to take him away he will learn not to come because it means something bad (play ends) so you just don't do it until his recall is solid. When he comes to you tell him "good come" reward then tell him "go play" or whatever you want so he can continue playing. One time he gets to you hook his leash then let him play another minute longer and keep doing it so he learns not every time he comes to you he's going to have to leave.


Yes. He needs to only have good things come to him when he comes to you. Treats, play, whatever he loves most. You probably know this already, but never, EVER punish or scold a dog after he's come to you, even if he was doing something bad right before. His doggie mind will remember getting punished because he came to you, not because of what he was doing just before. Coming when called should always carry asylum.

Sorry I misread how old he is (I was just talking to someone with a 12 week old). At 12 months you could use an e-collar, but let a professional trainer show you how. Doing it wrong can have the opposite effect of what you intend.


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## adas (Nov 22, 2008)

Seems to be a new group of GSD buddies here, so I will give u a bit of Nimai history. I got him from a breeder who had him as the pick of the litter from imported German Parents. He has a long German name, (but who cares). He developed an out-turned left leg and paw and was not judged any good as breeding stock, so he became the yard dog at the breeders farm. I saw him being offered on Craigs for a couple hundred about 3 months ago and had him flown over from another island. His did not limp on his leg, but it only looked weird. About 2 months ago when we were coming into our compound I let him off leash and he bolted to the neighbors dog to play, but just then the neighbors worker ran him over with the dual back wheels of his truck, (right over his head, like a speed bump). Nimai was not expected to live and it was thought he had brain damage and or had broken his spine, but after great Vet workmanship in 3 days of intensive care and $3500.00 later I was able to take him home and play nurse for him for a month. In the last month, he has become "normal" and puppy-like, but will have a bad limp. He can gallop OK, but his cantor and walk where he must put all his weight on the leg produces a bad limp. 

He really remembers the neighbors yard and every time we go by the neighbor, Nimai goes into warp speed to get out of that area. 

I got Nimai, right after Rasa, who was killed 3 1/2 months ago. We were coming home down the road on a walk and Rasa was on leash, by my side and a hit and run driver killed her and almost got me. 

One very important thing i will need to discipline myself is to never give a command that I think Nimai will not carry out. Such as the "come", stay, etc. He picks up routines or body language or thinks some commands are optional Very Very, quickly.

francis


francis


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