# Service Dog & Landlord Issues



## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

One of my fosters,Bella is a certified Seizure Alert Dog.I have a potential adopter for her,but her landlord will not let her have Bella even though she is a service dog,and I do have proof of that. This woman is epileptic and isn't just trying to get around the complexes' rule of 15 pounds and under. She has talked to the landlord,but the landlord is very adamant about the 15 pounds and under rule. 

The woman did say that she would move because she really wants Bella,but is there anything that she can do to convince her landlord otherwise? Has anyone else run into this situation. The potential adopter does know the laws pertaining to service dogs,but hasn't presented that to the complex yet. I have recommended that to her.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm pretty sure it's against the law what that guy is trying to do by not allowing the service dog. The dog isn't a pet... it's medical equipment. That's kind of like saying no wheel chairs allowed in the apartment. 

I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if this went to court, the landlord would lose.

Tell her to lawyer up or at least threaten the guy with potentially having to deal with her lawyer. The idea of a court battle might make him think a little clearer about what he's doing.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I'll mention that to her as well.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

Gharrissc said:


> One of my fosters,Bella is a certified Seizure Alert Dog.I have a potential adopter for her,but her landlord will not let her have Bella even though she is a service dog,and I do have proof of that. This woman is epileptic and isn't just trying to get around the complexes' rule of 15 pounds and under. She has talked to the landlord,but the landlord is very adamant about the 15 pounds and under rule.
> 
> The woman did say that she would move because she really wants Bella,but is there anything that she can do to convince her landlord otherwise? Has anyone else run into this situation. The potential adopter does know the laws pertaining to service dogs,but hasn't presented that to the complex yet. I have recommended that to her.


 
There is nothing you can do to convince the landlord except remind him that any adverse action towards the tennant over this issue is in clear violation of several federal laws including but not limited to : 

_Fair Housing Amendments Act_
_Americans with Disabilities Act_
_Rehab Act Section 504_

The best way to look at this is simply to accept the FACT that your adopter dosent need the landlords permission. Service animals are not pets. All your adopter needs to do is adopt the animal, and be smart enough not to give the landlord a different excuse to evict.
All that being said, its not really a good idea to make trouble with a landlord if your not ready for it, but this is a battle your potential "adopter" can win if they are willing to fight, should they decide its worth the trouble.


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## PatternDayTrader (Dec 1, 2011)

Lucy Dog said:


> I'm pretty sure it's against the law what that guy is trying to do by not allowing the service dog. The dog isn't a pet... it's medical equipment. That's kind of like saying no wheel chairs allowed in the apartment.
> 
> I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure if this went to court, the landlord would lose.
> 
> Tell her to lawyer up or at least threaten the guy with potentially having to deal with her lawyer. The idea of a court battle might make him think a little clearer about what he's doing.


Its alot worse than that. The landlord can be held liable for any "damages" suffered by the tennant, which could be pretty extensive should the tennant suffer a seizure without anyway to "alert" anyone of their emergency need for medical attention.

HA - therin lies the solution. The foster of Bella should just call the landlord and ask him/her what is their plan should the above actually occur !! 
Also ask for the landlords "address for service of process" and dont say why you need it, just say you need it, and remind them you are documenting the phone call.
I guarantee if they are professionals that will scare the everloving daylights out of them.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> The potential adopter does know the laws pertaining to service dogs,but hasn't presented that to the complex yet.


Make sure the potential adopter is aware that housing laws must be looked at in a different manner than say normal Public Access Rights. Different laws and different regulatory federal agencies.

The first thing a tenant needs to do is to determine what type of housing that is involved and then find the law that pertains to it. 

The Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 (FHAA)
The most common for rental units and condominiums
Exceptions:
* Buildings with four or fewer units where the landlord lives in one of the units
* Private owners who do not own more than three single family houses, do not use real estate brokers or agents, and do not use discriminatory advertisements.

Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 
Is the housing under any federal assistance? (Public or Subsidized Housing excluding Section 8)

Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Housing *owed* by Local or State Agencies. 

In various cases that have gone to court the ruling has been that the landlord may require documentation that the individual is disabled per the qualifications of the particular regulatory agency. 
* Having a certain medical condition does not always qualify as a disability under the regulating agency. The individual would need something from their treating doctor stating that in the doctor's medical opinion that the person meets *that agency's* disability level. 
* The landlord may be allowed to request documentation of training (not just an ID card purchased over the Internet stating the dog is *Certified*). 
* Landlord *may* be able to restrict size or breed of dog if their insurance company has placed those restrictions. 

Once the tenant knows which law they fall under they can use that information when writing a letter requesting a reasonable accommodation. (Tenant should not rely on a verbal request and a verbal answer from their landlord.)

If there are any problems or concerns after doing basic research, it is recommended that the tenant finds a qualified attorney (one who knows SD law) who can work with them. 

Even after a tenant receives a written accommodation from their landlord they may be subject to future legal actions from the landlord to remove the dog from the property. 

Also, if the property changes ownership and/or source of funding, the process may have to begin over again.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

As in any dispute or concern on SD matters it is always advisable to not automatically believe that a threat of involvement by a lawyer will end up to the handler's satisfaction. 

Any case going into litigation can be settled for either party. 

Housing litigation can drag on for a year or more. 

Once going into the court system information can be requested by the judge that the tenant may not want other parties to have access to. 
* Medical records may have to be made available (and yes the other side will be able to know what is in those records) showing that the level of the tenant's medical condition meets the regulatory agency's definition of disabled. 
* Training records (including any documents, video, statements by professional individuals or organizations) of the dog may be called for. 
*Again, this is not an ID or a piece of paper with "Certification" printed on it.*
* Judge may request that the handler *demonstrates* what the dog has been trained to do that will mitigate the handler's disability. It is likely that the Judge will not accept a statement that "the dog alerts to my medical condition".


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Jun 20, 2011)

ADA information line: 1-800-514-0301


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

ILGHAUS said:


> Make sure the potential adopter is aware that housing laws must be looked at in a different manner than say normal Public Access Rights. Different laws and different regulatory federal agencies.
> 
> The first thing a tenant needs to do is to determine what type of housing that is involved and then find the law that pertains to it.
> 
> ...


May request documentation of training? This seems to suggest that professional training isn't required. 

http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/brochures/ObtainingWaiversofNoPetPolicies.pdf

" A service animal need not have been professionally trained, Green v. Housing Authority of Clackamas County, 994 F.Supp. 1253 (D.Or.1998), and in fact many service animals are trained by their handlers"


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I know this may be difficult to do, but I hide my cats from my landlord. I've even had the pleasure *not so much* of him dropping by one day without me knowing. Luckily I was home and stuck my cats inside their taxis, into a cardboard box and into the car fairly quickly and discreetly (

If he shows up and inspects the house without me knowing, I will tell him I am babysitting...


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> v. Housing Authority of Clackamas County


This is a case in a particular county/state/type of housing.

Not all cases will be under the same regulatory agencies. Again, first thing is to know which laws your type of housing falls under and what the qualifications and restrictions are.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The biggest problem you will run into in court is that the tenant has lived without a seizure alert dog for the time being and all of the sudden needs one. I'm not saying that she isn't a candidate for one and this isn't a service dog but the landlord's lawyer (if it goes that far) will definitely point that out.

Make sure she studies those laws really well and figures out which one exactly she falls under.


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

ILGHAUS said:


> This is a case in a particular county/state/type of housing.
> 
> Not all cases will be under the same regulatory agencies. Again, first thing is to know which laws your type of housing falls under and what the qualifications and restrictions are.


And how do you find that out?


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> The biggest problem you will run into in court is that the tenant has lived without a seizure alert dog for the time being and all of the sudden needs one. I'm not saying that she isn't a candidate for one and this isn't a service dog but the landlord's lawyer (if it goes that far) will definitely point that out.
> 
> Make sure she studies those laws really well and figures out which one exactly she falls under.


Perhaps she never thought of it before? Perhaps she didn't have the means to afford an animal before? Just because she didn't get a service animal the second she started having seizures doesn't mean she doesn't need one now. 

I used to stress constantly about my son going to college and living on his own with type 1 diabetes. It never occurred to me until recently that having a service dog for him would benefit him greatly(and decrease my fears). It doesn't help him any less now just because we haven't had a service dog in the past


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

There isn't a quick or an easy answer to this one. Housing can be a bear to figure out. The first answer given to someone on a housing question by a member here may be the advice to "threaten to sue" as you have housing rights under the ADA (or other law). This advice may be the start of more headache if someone would attempt to follow it. My bottom line answer is research and speak with a qualified attorney. 

A general answer to help get someone started in research is to look at the laws that I already mentioned in this thread. Also remember that during court proceedings that a judge will be reviewing the rights of both parties under the appropriate law; court decisions can go for either party; and, the actual process can go on for over a year, during which time an individual may be subject to great stress and costly legal fees. During this time, an individual may be subject to invasive questioning on their medical condition and subject to extensive questioning on the training and qualifications of their dog. Any of the answers to this questioning may legally become available to the landlord and their legal representative.


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

ILGHAUS said:


> There isn't a quick or an easy answer to this one. Housing can be a bear to figure out. The first answer given to someone on a housing question by a member here may be the advice to "threaten to sue" as you have housing rights under the ADA (or other law). This advice may be the start of more headache if someone would attempt to follow it. My bottom line answer is research and speak with a qualified attorney.
> 
> A general answer to help get someone started in research is to look at the laws that I already mentioned in this thread. Also remember that during court proceedings that a judge will be reviewing the rights of both parties under the appropriate law; court decisions can go for either party; and, the actual process can go on for over a year, during which time an individual may be subject to great stress and costly legal fees. During this time, an individual may be subject to invasive questioning on their medical condition and subject to extensive questioning on the training and qualifications of their dog. Any of the answers to this questioning may legally become available to the landlord and their legal representative.


I have a seriously difficult time believing that anything would be drawn out to that extent over something like a service animal. Most laws are pretty cut and dry about it and the stipulations for owning a service animal is short and to the point. 1) does said person have a disability that would require a service animal 2) does the disability interfere with that persons ability to function on a daily or long term basis in which a service animal could assist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a judge that is interested in dragging anyone, let alone someone with a disability, through the mud and exploiting every detail of their life. 

Just as much of a headache as it would be for a person to go through court, it would be the same for a landlord. I would file a complaint with HUD at the very least. Most landlords don't want to be tied up in the courts either risking a possible settlement being owed.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> I have a seriously difficult time believing that anything would be drawn out to that extent over something like a service animal. Most laws are pretty cut and dry about it and the stipulations for owning a service animal is short and to the point. 1) does said person have a disability that would require a service animal 2) does the disability interfere with that persons ability to function on a daily or long term basis in which a service animal could assist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a judge that is interested in dragging anyone, let alone someone with a disability, through the mud and exploiting every detail of their life.


In this matter we are both of course entitled to our own opinions and advice. Mine are based on my personal reading and research through other sources, my contacts, and my time spent in advocacy matters. As in all such matters, each individual will decide their own plan on how to begin.


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

ILGHAUS said:


> In this matter we are both of course entitled to our own opinions and advice. Mine are based on my personal reading and research through other sources, my contacts, and my time spent in advocacy matters. As in all such matters, each individual will decide their own plan on how to begin.


I understand that. But some of what you said seemed off putting for someone that would want to pursue a discrimination suit. Your posts sound like there's way more hoops to jump trough than necessary. I don't think that's the case. You stated in a response to my post that my article referred to a particular county and state. Is that even relevant when federal law trumps any state or local laws?


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> You stated in a response to my post that my article referred to a particular county and state. Is that even relevant when federal law trumps any state or local laws?


I am posting advice on housing laws _in general_. 

An example of such is a quote from link that you gave.
"However, in some instances, federal, state and/or local laws require 
that no pet policies or limitations on the maximum weight of a resident's animal must be waived to allow persons suffering from disabilities to reside with an emotional support animal or service animal."
http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/brochu...etPolicies.pdf

If someone is not aware of a local (county) or state law on a particular topic then they are missing the chance to add that backing to their defense.

In the above part of the statement was based on different levels of the law dealing with the topic. Could a strong defense be based on just one level -- possibly -- but a good claim is going to be presented with as many facts of law as can be found to cover the situation. A good claim is going to be pro-active. 

What if one side presents a Federal Law or section thereof in a manner benefiting their rights while the other side presents a different section for their rights? Then one side might put state or local law on the table to help cover their position. 



> But some of what you said seemed off putting for someone that would want to pursue a discrimination suit.


I am not going to give the advice of "threaten to take to court" or "claim your rights under the ADA." That is not in the best interest of any one posting a question here. I am not going to sugar coat it and tell someone not to be concerned as they are entitled to certain rights. I am going to advise them to go into any claim with their eyes open to possible concerns and go prepared to defend their claim. I am going to advise them in a manner that I feel best protects their interests. 

Something as simple as a claim made based on a basic point such as definition of a SD could be the downfall of an individual's claim. Example ...
If someone gives a definition of a SD based on Title II or Title III of the ADA (Dept. of Justice) it can be dismissed by the court as not relevant as it is possible that the matter is legally addressed under 24 CFR Part 5 (Dept. of Housing and Urban Development).

When doing research and wanting to understand law on a particular situation it is in the best interest of an individual to know the background of any case law that they are referring and how that particular decision meshes with their particular concern or claim. And in part going back to a previous section of this post, in some cases - yes, could be very low probability but possible - a particular claim could have some basis on the location based on county. Not to derail in whole from OP but there have been decisions based on county BSL dealing with legality of SD. Being properly prepared on all relevant law will only strengthen a claim made by an individual or attorney.

As with any legal proceeding there can be many "hoops to jump through". If I believed the law was so clear cut I would not stress the need to seek legal advice from an attorney looking out for the individual's best interest. 

The advice that I am giving throughout this thread and will continue to give on this and like threads is research and speak with a qualified attorney. 

I would like to come back and add this disclaimer:
All my posts dealing with potential legal proceedings are based on my opinions based on personal education and experiences. I am not speaking as a professional legal advisor.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah...and then there is the problem of suing your landlord. That just doesn't seem like the relationship I'd like to have with the person that controls my living situation and also has to perform services for you when something breaks. So do you really want to be going through the courts every time your landlord delays fixing something in your apartment? There are a lot of things to consider when taking someone to court.

Like when it comes to a work discrimination suit...its usually for a monetary settlement/pay out...not for the job back. Doesn't seem very smart to keep working for a company because the law forced them to keep you on.

jlbjab...all the things that are being brought up are how the law works. Its not about what you or I think (you'd actually probably not be allowed to sit on a jury for this case as you are clearly emotionally connected to this subject). Federal law does not trump local law...federal law exists for the federal courts which deal with interstate relations (plaintiff and defendant are from different states so there is a question of what law to use) and even in those cases the law where the incident occurred will most likely be used.

Think of the drug laws...marijuana is now legal in some counties...and yet its highly illegal by federal law.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

jlbjab08 said:


> I have a seriously difficult time believing that anything would be drawn out to that extent over something like a service animal. Most laws are pretty cut and dry about it and the stipulations for owning a service animal is short and to the point. 1) does said person have a disability that would require a service animal 2) does the disability interfere with that persons ability to function on a daily or long term basis in which a service animal could assist. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a judge that is interested in dragging anyone, let alone someone with a disability, through the mud and exploiting every detail of their life.


Just wanted to add...look at how discriminatory this post is. You're stating that the judge wouldn't drag anyone, especially a disabled person, through the mud. First...the judge wouldn't be doing the dragging, it would be the defendant's lawyer. Second...and more importantly...you're saying the law should go easy on a person because they are disabled?


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Just wanted to add...look at how discriminatory this post is. You're stating that the judge wouldn't drag anyone, especially a disabled person, through the mud. First...the judge wouldn't be doing the dragging, it would be the defendant's lawyer. Second...and more importantly...you're saying the law should go easy on a person because they are disabled?


No I'm saying judges are able and do use discretion when it comes to exploiting someone's disability. These people wouldn't be on trial. Proving a service animal is just that is hardly a cause to advertise every details of a persons disability.


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Yeah...and then there is the problem of suing your landlord. That just doesn't seem like the relationship I'd like to have with the person that controls my living situation and also has to perform services for you when something breaks. So do you really want to be going through the courts every time your landlord delays fixing something in your apartment? There are a lot of things to consider when taking someone to court.
> 
> Like when it comes to a work discrimination suit...its usually for a monetary settlement/pay out...not for the job back. Doesn't seem very smart to keep working for a company because the law forced them to keep you on.
> 
> ...


wow...i don't think you posted one accurate thing. thats quite the feat to be wrong about everything. 

first of all, a service animal lawsuit would be a civil suit and there are no juries in civil suits so i won't have to worry about being emotionally connected to anything.

second of all, my landlord doesn't control my living situation. they are obligated to fix and maintain the unit in which i live. do i want to have a stressed relationship with my landlord? if it meant not being pushed/bullied around then yes, i'd call that a worthy fight. regarding your workplace analogy, i'd wager that most people WOULD want to keep their job. afterall, it's their livlihood.

and most importantly, if you're gonna google information you may want to verify that it's credible. federal law always supecedes local or state laws. state and local laws can only be more strict than federal laws, never more lenient. 

your analogy regarding marijuana is also quite misguided. marijuana is only legal in some areas with a prescription. no prescription? you get arrested. comparable to oxycodone. oxy with a Rx=legal, without a Rx=illegal. 

understand?


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## jlbjab08 (Aug 1, 2012)

allow me to add that the feds CAN and do raid many areas in california(in which the WHOLE state recognizes medical marijuana) and haul people off to jail and seize their property. there is no higher law than the feds. period

link:
The Feds Can't Stop Medical Marijuana, CA Activists Say [FEATURE] | StoptheDrugWar.org


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## JeaneneR (Aug 22, 2012)

jlbjab08 - Housing law is a great deal more difficult than one could imagine and yes lawyers Will drag the disabled through the mud. Partly it's their job and partly because of the rising number of people who try to face service dogs or emotional support animals to get in no pet housing. It has became a big problem in the past 5+ years. Service dog law is very complex and while several of the federal laws have a least restrictive clause that doesn't mean that federal law (or more importantly the ADA which most handlers want to drag out for everything) covers every situation. 

Original poster - First this is none of my business but I do need to advise you of a few things. First there is a question of is this dog a trained seizure alert dog or response dog. It's a fine hair to split but one that needs to be done. If the dog alerts to seizures there is no guarantee that the dog will alert to the New Handler's seizures. An alert for seizures can not be trained, and is difficult to hold up in court especially with a new placement. However a response Can be trained and is easier to hold up in court. 

In case of a court battle the new handler will need a not from their doctor detailing that a service dog is required for the client's disability ( the note need not state the actual disability) as well as training logs proving the dog has received an appropriate number of hours training both in task work And in public access training. You will also want to make sure that the new handler knows how to handle the dog because regular training is required to keep a dogs public access and task training sharp. 

As for the housing if the housing she is in falls under Fair housing act (which a good percentage of rentals do) then the steps she needs to take are fairly easy. Get a copy of the doctors not stating that the dog is required as a part of the regular medical treatment, and pick up dog and note. Drop by the landlord and bring the doctors note (I would also bring appropriate information on the Fair housing act) and give to the land lord. If landlord tries to cause trouble then she needs to contact HUD and have them start working on the case. Until the case goes to trial the landlord can't evict her and her service dog. It can be stressful, but ultimately if she doesn't fight it the landlord will think they can bully the next person to come along.


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