# HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver



## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

Help!

I had to take Bravo to the vet this morning as he was drinking lot's of water, not urinating anywhere near as much as he was taking in and was very, very lethargic.

The vet just called me to say that Bravo is anaemic and his kidney values are elavated; behind butting him on IV fluids the vet doesn't seem to know what is going on.

Does anyone have any ideas? Bravo was fine yesterday afternoon, a little off last night and very down this AM. 

I'm very, very worried.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

How old is Bravo? I have to run right now but there is a post on here about a gsd called Wolfie and he is a puppy who has kidney disease. Here is the thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=864219&page=1&fpart=1


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## kaylesraven (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Have they done any xrays or an abdominal ultrasound? I would insist that this be done asap to see if there is anything overt in his abdomen that might be causing blood loss.


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Did they do a urinaylsis....to check for antifreeze poisioning, any crystals in his urine...could be kidney stones, blocked urethra, etc.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowHow old is Bravo? I have to run right now but there is a post on here about a gsd called Wolfie and he is a puppy who has kidney disease. Here is the thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=864219&page=1&fpart=


Bravo is 7. He has no history of this type of problem at all. My concern is that they have an idea of what but not why. To add to this they don't have the facility to keep him overnight, which came as a surprise to me- bloody Banfield!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*



> Originally Posted By: Pedders.....The vet just called me to say that Bravo is anaemic and his kidney values are elavated;


Have tick diseases been ruled out? Lyme, ehrlichia, anaplasmosa, babesia?


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

What tests have they run? They need to do a CBC, full chem panel, tick panel and UA, not just a dipstick test but full UA, with specific gravity measured and urine spun down and looked at under microscope for any crystals, stones, etc.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

I would take him to an internist/critical care facility asap. There is a lot that can be done, but you have to know exactly what you're dealing with. If it's something toxic, then dialysis may be necessary. An ultrasound may show if there is something physiological (as in, there's something wrong with the structure of the body, as opposed to the chemistry or "system" of the body). An ultrasound can also reveal the overall health of the kidneys/bladder/urinary tract right now. 

This may need to be dealt with quickly as well and an internist/critical care facility should be able to do that, or refer you to someone who can.

If you live near a university with a veterinary school, that's where I'd go. Otherwise, you can search here: 

http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3

If you're dealing with early or moderate renal failure, we have tools to potentially slow the process -- lots of tools in fact, but we have to know exactly what we're dealing with. 

What are Bravo's BUN and creatinine levels, by the way? 

Keep a close eye on Bravo's gums. Touch them often with your finger. If they feel even slightly sticky, he is (or is getting) dehydrated and needs to get to a vet for more (injected) fluids. That is your very first priority right now, keeping him hydrated while you figure out what's going wrong. 

At this point, even if you can't get to a critical care facility or vet hospital, with a weekend coming up, you might want to find yourself a local veterinarian other than Banfield, who could admit him for hospitalization if necessary, while tests are being run. If everything is being done in the community, you may not be able to get a radiologist for an ultrasound asap. Xrays and a complete blood panel, urinalysis, AND a culture (via cystocentisis) would be minimum I would expect to start. 

Keep us posted.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Heading back to the vet know to get some answers to some of these questions. Closest vet school is Texas A&M, about 1.5 hours away.

Been told that he is on if fluids and "is the same". Like I said I'm going over now to get specifics


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Any news?


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

He's undergoing surgery at Texas A&M right now. He has a tumour of some kind on his spleen and it's bleeding into his stomach; they are going to remove it and hope it's benign. 

Truthfully I fully expect the worst.

What truly torques me off is that the original vet I took him to a) ignored what I told him with regards to Bravos distended belly and b) didn't X-ray him.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Well crap that isn't what I was hoping for - _*Fingers and paws crossed in the E house for benign*_


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Glad you took him to Texas A&M but so sorry the original vet didn't know what they were doing! 

I hope he pulls through ok and you get more time with him.


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Fingers crossed for you...I know the immediate thought with spleen masses is hermangiosarcoma but we have had two dogs come through the rescue that had to have spleens removed due to masses that we thought would be HS but turned out benign! So there is hope, please don't expect the worst!! Dodger on our site had to have a leg removed and then his spleen a year later (unrelated) and is still going strong...dogs are resilient and you have him in good hands with Texas A&M!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

I'm keeping Bravo in my thoughts and prayers...









Please keep us updated.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

My prayers are with you and Bravo. You're fortunate to be so close to a good school like Texas A&M.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Not looking good









He spent around 3 hours in surgery last night and they removed his spleen, with one mass one it, and removed 2 masses from his liver. Althought they haven't confirmed it in the lab, the view is that it's hermangiosarcoma.

When I spoke with the hospital at 0015 they told me his blood pressure was low and they had concerns about his recovery from the surgery as they had to push blood and plasma. They _did_ say that they would call if the worst happened and I haven't had that call, but then again when I called an hour ago I was told that they were doing rounds and would call me back, which hasn't happened yet.

Right now all I want to know is that my boy is alive and at least has a chance of coming home!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

<span style="color: #000099">Praying for the best for Bravo and you.







</span>


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## kaylesraven (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Oh no...I was afraid of something like this. Keeping our paws crossed for you and Bravo...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Hoping for the best here too.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

Out of surgery and awake. BP, heart and resp rate looking good but lots of other "worries" from the surgeon (clotting, anemea, bleeding from the liver, more masses we don't know about).

Apparently he doesn't want to get up at the moment, but frankly if I'd spent 24hrs with blood sloshing around in my abdomen and then 3 hours in surgery I probably wouldn't want to get up and run around either!

Now I'm not a hugs and prayers sort of guy, but in this case all positive vibes, thoughts etc are much appreciated.


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## kaylesraven (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems*

I am thinking of you and Bravo and sending healing energy your way.

We lost our heartdog Kayle to HS April 19th of last year after she fought with all she had. Unfortunately I know all too well what you are going thru as she had a similar surgery to remove her kidney, which had a tumor that ruptured and formed a huge blood clot in her abdomen. Everytime I read about another GSD (or any dog) with possible HS it makes me MAD and makes my heart ache. 

Kayle spent three nights in ICU after her surgery. The first day she wasn't walking either, likely because of pain, soreness, and all the pain medicines she had on board (they kept her on a morphine drip). The next day she was on her feet but doing a wierd bunny hop thing, as she could not control her RR leg. I wondered if it wasn't the central line in her leg, but we never knew for sure. That went away the fourth day and she was walking ok...just slowly as she was still sore and woozy from the drugs. A week after the surgery she was trying to get me to throw her frisbee for her.

It was a major surgery and takes some time for them to get enough strength back to make those baby steps toward feeling better. Especially with the dramatic blood loss. Visit if they will let you. I still think that my visiting encouraged Kayle to get over the wierd bunny hopping thing. And remember that they are incredibly resilient....

Many







...keep us posted and remember that we are here for you.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Quote:Visit if they will let you.


Yes. It will do both of you more good than you can possibly realize. 

While our cyber hugs may not be very helpful, hugging Bravo may be exactly what both of you need right now. Even if you can only lightly stroke his face or a paw, the connection is what matters. Give him something to hold on to. I saw this myself this week with one of my dogs who was terribly ill and could have gone either way. When my mom whom she loves dearly specifically flew up here to visit her, a new life was breathed into her. 

If you can, see your boy. Just hearing your voice will help him.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Hang in there Bravo, sending healing thoughts your way!


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Sending healing thoughts out to Bravo!


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## ninhar (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Sending positive thoughts that Bravo will make it through this ok.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am very sorry. 
This is what happened to my dog on February 13.
This is his thread

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1032885&page=0&fpart=1

BoBo and I, we are sending healing thoughts to Bravo.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Just spoke with the hospital and apparently Bravo is up and about and went outside for a peepee! He had a second transfusion and it seems to have worked wonders.

We are heading off in the morning to see him (a gentle 1.5 hour drive up to Texas A&M) and hopefully lots of kisses. 

Then, assuming he remains stable, we need to talk options for the future. I'll be PMing a number of you for advice; I hope that's OK?

Oh, and thanks to all for the positive vibes.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I wish you the best with this. Barker the Younger came down with a similar condition in November. Again, I'm hoping these things turn out to be benign.


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## kaylesraven (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Great news! Give Bravo hugs and kisses from all of us...and PM away!


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Quick update.

Went to see Bravo this morning. He walked from the ICU to the exam room and apparently was tugging (as best he could being drugged to the eyeballs) at the leash to get into the room.

Spoke with the surgeon in charge of his case who informed us that Bravo was well ahead of the curve on their expected recovery timeframe from this kind of surgery, so I'm taking that as a good thing! Here's hoping it continues. 

He's not eating, but they are putting that down to nausea from the painkillers. They are feeding him nutrients intravenously and are switching him to a different painkiller to see if that helps.

No visiting on Sundays (unless bad things happen, so I don't want to be going tomorrow) so Monday should be the next visit.

Keep 'em crossed for a successful completion of stage 1!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I would recommend getting in contact with Marina Zacharias over at http://www.naturalrearing.com if you are looking for ways to support Bravo. You can pm myamom and also I think jes,mag,misty that have consulted with her. Also, there is a cancer sticky at the top of Health, and in the health index sticky, there may be some links, but I'm not sure about that, or if they are working.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Pedders, your PM box is full.

BoBo started eating the second day after surgery, he did not eat either while he was on pain meds and IV fluids. Then suddenly he discovered that he was very hungry.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Good energy, healing vibes, prayers all being sent to Bravo. I second what Lisa said about contacting Marina Zacharias. More prayers heading Bravo's way... Grimmi's paws are crossed, too.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Some afterthoughts,

Regarding, Marina, I've known the dogs that she has worked with, and consulted on, in cancer cases, and they have all done better than any other dogs I have seen in those cases. She will consult with you and spend as much time as you need. 

A really critical time, and an important one to act, is now, after surgery, when the cancer cells have been disturbed and you have some remaining that are floating through the body. A couple of no-brainer things to do would be IP6 and a mushroom product. There are also products that affect the blood vessel growth, and certain ones shouldn't be used together, etc.

You can go the chemo route (I think), the alternative route, or some mix of the two.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDPedders, your PM box is full.
> 
> BoBo started eating the second day after surgery, he did not eat either while he was on pain meds and IV fluids. Then suddenly he discovered that he was very hungry.


Thanks for the heads up; PM box has had some room made in it (I hope!).


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: BrightelfGood energy, healing vibes, prayers all being sent to Bravo. I second what Lisa said about contacting Marina Zacharias. More prayers heading Bravo's way... Grimmi's paws are crossed, too.


Patti, thank you so much. 

You are quite frankly one of the most amazing human beings I have ever "met". With all that you are going through, you still have time to think about others. If only there were more like you


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I have dealt with Marina Zacharias when my dog got sick - after reading the praises on this board. I have to admit that I was very disappointed. I talked to others involved in supplements who gave me much better and thorough information than she did. Since it is a custom not to post negative information on this board, just praises, you can contact me privately for information regaring my experiences. I don't have many patients of Marina to compare, the other one I know got the same supplements for a completely different cancer - which I don't think will do harm to either of the dogs.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSD....the same supplements for a completely different cancer


Just an fyi on this....

Most cancers have certain things in common -- cancer cells aren't programed to die like regular cells are, cancer cells create a particular type of blood supply, most cancer cells create p-glycoprotein to help move toxic things away from the cancer cells, which protects the cancer cells (this is related to p-glycoprotein and the mdr1 mutation btw), etc.

Soooo, many of the same supplements do work for different cancers. There are some cancers that are a bit different -- those that have spread to the brain, I believe that the mast cell tumors have some additional properties (related to histamine).

Different cancers do behave differently, and I would have to look at this more carefully, but solid tumor cancers, versus blood cancers, should have a different protocol (I'm not completely sure about that though). However, solid tumors, probably all share many of the same characteristics. I believe that there are 4 main categories, and I would have to look them up though, I don't know them precisely enough off the top of my head.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I agree, it may be possible that those very different cancers require the same supplements, it may also be possible that the same 6 supplements are prescribed to every cancer dog and that the approach is not as individualized as advertised (claims on this board about the individualized approach - and also Marina's claims - was one of the reasons I picked her).

I am professionally involved in cancer research and there are MANY resources available on line on natural healing. It has become a big, lucrative business. 

I suggest everyone to look around talk to DIFFERENT people as the quality of information these individuals provide varies widely and then make a decision. Also, do some comparison-shopping in terms of prices, the price for the same product by the same manufacturer
can vary 60-100%, depending om who sells it to you.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I will also say that I got the same combo for diffuse advanced GI lymphoma (rare) as others have gotten for different cancers.

I am glad that Bravo is up and at 'em and have great hopes that he will be home with you soon!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSD....I am professionally involved in cancer research and there are MANY resources available on line on natural healing. It has become a big, lucrative business....


I agree, it's a huge business out there. And it's also hard to navigate that jungle out there, for a variety of reasons.

I would like to add that I know for a fact that Marina has been doing this over 10 years, when I first learned of her. When I first heard about her, the online resources weren't there, and you couldn't get those products easily, and for some products that she carries that probably still holds. When I consulted with her that many years ago (not for cancer), she did explain all the supplements to me, and spoke to me at length on the phone, and we would have continued that process if I had continued treatment. We didn't continue treatment because at that time, we still hadn't figured out what Indy's issues were. My experience from dealing with, and knowledge of a small number of dogs that I know that followed her protocol strictly, is what makes me continue to recommend her. I should probably add, those success stories were not dogs that went through chemo or radiation, so I cannot address how the addition of chemo affects this protocol. However, nowadays, there is all sorts of information about what things can be used with chemo, which most conventional docs don't know a lot about, and even discount.

Everyone will have different experiences and the OP will have to make the decisions that. It makes sense to me that not everyone will have a positive or successful interaction with any person.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI will also say that I got the same combo for diffuse advanced GI lymphoma (rare) as others have gotten for different cancers.


I was wondering about that Jean, particularly after Max's ultrasound. I don't know as much about those cancers.

It is difficult to find folks that have actually followed the protocol once they have obtained it. I think that you put together your own, or did you use that combination? I only know of a few that committed to it. Maybe folks just haven't posted about it? What I would like to know, is how that protocol changes over time. Of the one dog that I knew long-term, there were changes.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I've found these two books extremely informative; I think they are accessible to "civilians" who don't have much, if anything, in the way of medical/veterinary background. 

You can get both at amazon.com. They're very reasonably priced, unlike most veterinary books. 

_The Natural Vet's Guide to Preventing and Treating Cancer in Dogs _ by Shawn Messonnier: In this easy-to-use guide, Dr. Shawn Messonnier offers the latest research on both treating new diagnoses of cancer and preventing the disease before it takes the life of a beloved family pet. He details a program that includes complementary therapies such as antioxidants, herbal preparations, homeopathic remedies, raw food, glandular supplements, and acupuncture.

_Help Your Dog Fight Cancer: An Overview Of Home Care Options _ by Laurie Kaplan. A crash course on canine cancer, for all dog lovers. Covers prevention, diagnosis, treatment options, side effects, diet, supplements and home care. Medical animal writer Kaplan shares journey with her own lymphoma survivor, Bullet. A must read for those who have a dog with cancer.


I read the Kaplan book while waiting hours and hours in the lobby of the critical care facility for my dog. This also houses an oncology department. I presume they put the book there for THEIR patients' owners. 

I suggest these to supplement what's been recommended above. As a pet owner, I believe the more information I have and the more educated I am, the better. 

Glad you were able to see Bravo.









Take care.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Through PMs we have found four dogs with very different cancers on the same "individualized" cancer protocol.

To return to the original thread, BoBo hopes that his cancer survivor friend is recovering well after the surgery and he has his paws crossed for Bravo. Prayers going to Bravo from everybody here.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Thanks to you all for your input and good wishes. Right now I have two things on my mind.

1) Keeping my







for a speedy recovery from the surgery so I at least need to worry about further treatments!

2) Finding out as much information as possible about treatments, support, care, nutrition and anything else that is going to help us deal with this as best we can.

So keep up the suggestions and I won't say no to the positive vibes either.

Again, thanks to you all.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDThrough PMs we have found four dogs with very different cancers on the same "individualized" cancer protocol.


I guess I don't have the problem with that as you do. 

Now if that protocol, with the recommended brands, etc. doesn't work -- doesn't give increased quality of life and/or survival, then I would like to know that, and I would also like to know if the dogs are also on chemo or radiation. That information would affect my recommendation down the road.

As for starting with the same protocol, again, I'm okay with that -- if it saves the life of my dog, or makes my dog have a better quality of life, I consider that complaint more of a superficial one.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom_The Natural Vet's Guide to Preventing and Treating Cancer in Dogs _ by Shawn Messonnier: In this easy-to-use guide, Dr. Shawn Messonnier offers the latest research on both treating new diagnoses of cancer and preventing the disease before it takes the life of a beloved family pet. He details a program that includes complementary therapies such as antioxidants, herbal preparations, homeopathic remedies, raw food, glandular supplements, and acupuncture.
> 
> _Help Your Dog Fight Cancer: An Overview Of Home Care Options _ by Laurie Kaplan. A crash course on canine cancer, for all dog lovers. Covers prevention, diagnosis, treatment options, side effects, diet, supplements and home care. Medical animal writer Kaplan shares journey with her own lymphoma survivor, Bullet. A must read for those who have a dog with cancer.
> 
> ...


I have the Messonnier book, and I've wondered about the Kaplan book. Interesting about where you found the Kaplan book. I looked at that, but it seemed very conventional to me in its alternative methods (if that makes any sense) -- but I couldn't tell.

I'm a bit interested in the book that this guy is selling: http://www.dogcancerblog.com/problem-solving-while-having-a-dog-with-cancer/ but I don't want to spend $50, since I'm probably only interested in a small portion of the book. From what I can tell, this is a vet that was turned on to natural therapies later in his career, from a search I found that he does have a product that is going through the patent process, and the ingredients of that product look promising from what i know. But at his clinic, he practices what he preaches, from what I can find. http://www.dogcancersurvival.com/everything/


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: Pedders1) Keeping my
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definite positive vibes sent your way -- Bravo is a trooper, and a very lucky boy that you caught this and he made it this far









Any idea on when he might be able to come home?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I think your next step is to decide whether to do chemo or not.
Statistics show that chemo doubles the life expectancy. 
Supplements are great either as supportive therapy along with the chemo or without the chemo.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDI think your next step is to decide whether to do chemo or not.
> Statistics show that chemo doubles the life expectancy.
> Supplements are great either as supportive therapy along with the chemo or without the chemo.


I don't think there are any valid statistics that address the alternative versus the chemo issue, and that really is a fact. 

Conventional medicine regards alternative treatment as a supplement to chemo, though not everyone makes that decision.

I do agree that the question is to do chemo or not. To me, the decision to address the diet and use supplements, at least as an adjunct, is a given, but that's me.

Rebel, do you have any statistics on expectancy with chemo? From the sites below, it looks to be 4-9 months? I think with the supplements, that should be able to be extended.

http://www.caninecancerawareness.org/html/CanineCancerHemangiosarcoma.html
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1638&aid=441
http://www.vet.uga.edu/VPP/clerk/frankhauser/index.php
http://www.caninecancer.com/Hemangiosarcoma.html
http://www.eattheapple.com/ginger/ (6 1/2 years with no chemo!!)


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: Pedders1) Keeping my
> ...


Well, these dogs don't seem to know the meaning of quit do they; I guess that's why we love them so much.

I'm still being guarded on recovery from surgery and coming home as there are still things that could go wrong, post-operatively speaking. That said, I would imagine that the further removed from the surgery we are without incident, the better the chances of at least getting him home.

From our conversation with the surgeon on Saturday, they are looking at Wednesday/Thursday, barring any nasties.

Sorry to seem so cautious, but I don't want to jinx anything!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I was surprised to see how quickly BoBo recovered after the surgery. He had his surgery on Saturday at 3AM and the photos I posted on his thread, him leaving the calling card on the bushes, were taken Sunday noon. He was his old self 3 days after surgery. Before surgery he was so weak that he could barely get up. BoBo only had his spleen removed, so his surgery was less complicated than Bravo's. Hopefully Bravo will heal as quickly as my boy.

Praying for a speedy recovery for Bravo, BoBo sends healing thoughts to his pal.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Good news/bad news:

Just got off the phone with A&M.

Good news - all blood, protein etc values are up and holding in the normal range.

Bad news - he has esophagitis (esentially acid reflux) which is inhibiting his feeding. They say this is more an annoyance than a serious worry, but right now anything that isn't a positive is a worry to me!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

LisaT-what is that stuff that is supposed to be anti-cancer that is also anti-reflux? Tagamet? 

At least he's where they can supplement his eating easily with fluids, etc. 

SO glad all that other stuff is holding up well. 

The great thing is that our dogs don't read their charts so just try to do their best without being nervous (like we are of course). 

One thing I like for healing after surgeries-any-is VetriScience DMG. I have no idea-does it work-is it as great as I think? Perhaps not! But it was the only extra thing I gave to two seniors-one after surgery, one with a giant abcess-and the rate of skin healing was awesome to me. Again-I don't know, but wanted to throw that out to you. 

Lisa-I did not follow any protocol-Nina passed 5 days after diagnosis, Kramer's prognosis was hours to perhaps days (which of course he disagreed with) and I had decided with him because of that timeline not to spend it trying to force anything into him other than his regular pills. Of course when we hit the 6 week mark, I started looking around again-but he refused anything extra so I didn't force it! Pedders-neither had hemangiosarcoma or an operable tumor-so you won't worry. 

Continued best wishes!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Jean, thanks for the feedback on Nina and Kramer. I remembered there was a reason with Kramer, but couldn't remember what it was and didn't want to say something that wasn't right. He certainly was amazing







I now remember how fast it was with Nina









Yes, Tagamet has some powerful anti-cancer properties. There are some links in Chama's thread in the senior section. I would ask the vet to use that, and I would guess the vet doesn't know much about it. We showed the studies to my Dad's colon cancer doctor and he completely discounted them







I know they work to some extent - I had to pull Indy off of it because it boosted her bad vaccine issues. 

Pedders, here's hoping that this is a super minor annoyance for your boy!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am so glad to hear that he made it through the surgery and is recovering so well! I hope he will be able to come home soon.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Here are two tagamet-related posts:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...t=4#Post1035761

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...t=4#Post1036138


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

I would ask if they're giving a ppi inhibitor (Pepcid or Prilosec) for the reflux. As an option (or in addition), he might take Carafate, which is nice and soothing to the whole GI tract, including the esophagus. 

Carafate: http://www.drugs.com/pdr/carafate.html
Prilosec: http://www.rxlist.com/prilosec-drug.htm
Pepcid: http://www.drugs.com/pepcid.html

Each of these is better at controlling gastric reflux than tagamet. The vet can tell you (and I wouldn't do this on my own), but there likely isn't any reason not to overlap them. I've seen dogs Pepcid and Prilosec given together for example, because they work slightly differently. 

We don't want any GI issues to inhibit eating. Once dogs stop eating, it can be hard to get them started. I'm sure his internist is all over this. But sometimes, when our dogs start taking a big list of meds, it's easy to overlook or forget one. 

So, I'll ask "hey, are we using this? Can we?" If we can't, the vet will explain why not (and that's fine. I'm all about learning as I go). But often we can and the vet hasn't thought about adding it yet. Perhaps they're waiting to see if the body handles an issue on its own. Or perhaps the specialist has been busy and hasn't considered it yet (or hasn't been consulted by the attending vet). They have a lot of patients. I have just one. 

My job is to be my dog's advocate. That's my only job. So I ask. I toss ideas out there. If it's a bad idea, they'll tell me. But at least we considered it.


----------



## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9MomI would ask if they're giving a ppi inhibitor (Pepcid or Prilosec) for the reflux. As an option (or in addition), he might take Carafate, which is nice and soothing to the whole GI tract, including the esophagus.
> 
> Carafate: http://www.drugs.com/pdr/carafate.html
> Prilosec: http://www.rxlist.com/prilosec-drug.htm
> ...


In my conversation with the student I was told that they were giving him something to control the acid reflux and something to sooth his esophagus. I'm fairly confident that they have most of the bases covered as his care team consists of 2 students, a surgeon, an oncologist and a internal medicine specialist.

That said, I'll be sure to check on the specifics during my next chat with them. 

I feel like I'm back in the Army; we've been hit with a sneek attack which we've just about (I hope!) managed to repulse and now we need to regroup and counter attack. Frankly I'd feel better if this _was_ an enemy I could just just call in an airstrike on!!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

The PPI inhibitors don't have the anti-cancer effects as the histamine blockers. You are right though, the ppi's block the acid, whereas the histamine blockers only block the side effect from acid. The ppi's made my mom terribly ill, but I think most dogs tolerate them. I think the Carafate is a great idea.

The bottom line is that when the dog is in the hospital, the vet is typically going to follow their own protocol. I agree, you can ask, they'll consider it, and then do what they think is best.


----------



## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: Pedders....I feel like I'm back in the Army; we've been hit with a sneek attack which we've just about (I hope!) managed to repulse and now we need to regroup and counter attack. Frankly I'd feel better if this _was_ an enemy I could just just call in an airstrike on!!!


I think that's a great analogy.


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## kaylesraven (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Just quickly checking in to see how Bravo is... glad for the good news

I recall reading about a new study using nitric oxide attached to B12, which fits in the receptors on the cancer cells and destroys the cells. The researchers are reporting great results. I haven't had time to dig deeper and don't know if Bravo might benefit it the lab confirms HS, but below is the link. Fascinating stuff.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090323143856.htm


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Quick update: Bravo is coming home tomorrow morning! Apparently he is way ahead of his projected recovery from the surgery. I saw him this morning and he wanted to trot around rather than just walk. He also ate adair volume of fresh chicken, so it seems like the esophagitis is nothing to worry about.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

















Great news!! Very happy to hear this


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Yay for Bravo!


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. Now we just have worry ourselves sick waiting for the lab reports on the tumours and what follows that!!!


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: PeddersQuick update: Bravo is coming home tomorrow morning!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

So very glad to hear it. Pedders







Bravo


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*








What fantastic news - way to go Bravo!!!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: Pedders
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LisaT
> ...


I would start an anti-cancer diet and a few supplements asap, but that's just what I would do.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

That's great that he's coming home tomorrow!









When do the test results come back?


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Preliminary test results confirm that it is hermangiosarcoma.

When I pick Bravo up today I will be having a conversation about what we do next.

Lisa, it is our intention to do just as you suggested, assuming that the anti-cancer diet generally lines up with the post-operative recovery diet that the vets say they will be giving us.

Does anyone have a particular diet structure that they can recommend (sorry if I missed the same somewhere earlier)?


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

<span style="color: #000099"> Check out the cancer links above.</span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: PeddersLisa, it is our intention to do just as you suggested, assuming that the anti-cancer diet generally lines up with the post-operative recovery diet that the vets say they will be giving us.
> 
> Does anyone have a particular diet structure that they can recommend (sorry if I missed the same somewhere earlier)?


I'm sorry that the hemangiosarcoma was confirmed









Yep, there are a *ton* of links in the sticky that Jazzstorm posted above!
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=907326&page=1#Post907326

Anti-cancer diets are high protein, high amounts of "good fats", and low carb, low starch, preferably no grain.

There are a boat load of different supplements that can help -- I'm sure that you've had all sorts of pm's about them. 

The easy things to start with would be something like IP6 (Enzymatic Therapy, at local health food stores and here: http://tinyurl.com/cxhlt6 ) and a good mushroom product. Here's a mushroom product that my vet used when my dog had a tumor: http://www.wellvet.com/powermushrooms.html but I think RebelGSD has a powder she likes, and there are other products out there. I think it was GSD 10 (?) that mentioned that DHA (from algae) was the better source of O-3 to use when fighting cancer. I have more info in my files somewhere if needed.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

UPenn has an ongoing clinical trial with the Turkey Tail mushroom (Coriolus Versicolor) in the management of hemangiosarcoma. They sent me a list of references from peer reviewed medical and biology journals, which suggest that it makes sense trying it. I get mine from Mushroom Harvest in powder form - it is easier to feed it to the dog than 10-15 different capsules per meal. They also carry combinations of different mushrooms. The powder form is reasonably priced compared to capsules.

My cancer research colleagues also recommend ginger and cumin.
A colleague I work with discovered the cancer fighting properties of broccoli sprouts.

I also give BoBo the Transfer Factor, somone's HS dog lived with it 6 months without chemo. It can be just a fluke, it may be the supplement.

UPenn also gave us a Chinese herbal supplement that is very popular and widely used in China. I have to look up the name.

There are a few rare dogs that live longer with HS.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Uuurgh!

So Bravo's home and that's great! He's eaten a little boiled chicken (maybe 5oz) and drunk some water and is asleep at my feet at the moment.

The prognosis from A&M is not exactly great; he could still have any number of post-operative problems plus he has some fluid in his pericardiam (sp) and he has a small shadow on the right side of his heart which is most likely a tumour.

The surgeon seems to have his doubts as to whether chemo should even be attempted, which is a real downer, although he has no problem with us having an oncology consult and going ahead if they think that there is any value to it.

Worst of all is that I'm just so paranoid about everything now; his food and fluid intake (then his output!), is his breathing laboured, gum colour, his he dreaming of having some sort of seizure, etc etc.

I'm even frightened to go to sleep in case I wake up and he's gone. 

I've never been this concerned about any human!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I understand completely how you feel. I lost my boy Basu to hemangiosarcoma 2 years ago. I did not do the surgery. He initially slowed down and wouldn't eat and then bounced back for a few days and then crashed. At that point I opted to pts b/c they didn't recommend surgery since the cancer is so aggressive. 

Right now I'm living with 14 yo Chama who has a large tumor on her leg and probably a tumor inside too (she bloated 6 weeks ago but we got through it without surgical intervention). 

I am doing different supplements but most of all concentrating on making each day the best possible for her. We are doing special outings and I am allowing her to live her life as if each day were the last. That way I know she's had the best life possible and went out with style. 

I have also been through something similar with a younger dog (6.5) and lymphoma. It is a huge shock, very stressful and difficult to know how to proceed. 

If I were you I would pursue the mushroom stuff that Rebel lists above. I've heard great things. 

Best of luck to you and Bravo. I will keep you in my thoughts.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I know how you feel. I went and am going through the same with BoBo. I am getting better at it and cherish every moment we are together. He comes to work with me whenever possible, and I give him many hugs. I am very focused on keeping everything upbeat and positive as I don't want him to be upset over me being upset. Most of the time we are doing well and are happy.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDUPenn has an ongoing clinical trial with the Turkey Tail mushroom (Coriolus Versicolor) in the management of hemangiosarcoma.


There are lots of mushroom products out there -- so if you use a mixed product, that might also get the benefit of several different types. They have been used in Chinese Medicine for years with success -- western medicine is taking quite awhile to catch up







. But if you are comfortable using one that others on the board are using, then definitely get started with it!! 




> Quote:My cancer research colleagues also recommend ginger and cumin. A colleague I work with discovered the cancer fighting properties of broccoli sprouts.


Careful with ginger and curcumin if your dog has shown signs of heat in the past - such as being quick to pant, seeking out cool floors to lay on, etc. Ginger in particular will heat the body and he may be very uncomfortable. 

I'm not sure about the ginger, but one action that the curcumin does is act as a Cox-2 inhibitor, which helps in the cancer fight. If you decide to give it, give it with meals. I give my dog curcumin, but not ginger. Even though she seeks out warmth, she didn't do great with the ginger.

And yes, you *can* get broccoli in pill form!! But you can also get a steamer, and steam some up, chop it, and feed with dinner.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

K9 Immunity (seven mushrooms) is very expensive, I also got the 14 mushroom combination from mushroom harvest.

I would suggest to get the oncology consult to make an educated decision. Penn is not encouraging regarding survival either. They told me 3-6 months with chemo. We hope to be the rare ones that break the rules.

We started chemo 14 days after surgery and we are on a 12-day protocol. Due for chemo number 5 this Friday.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Great resource: http://www.mushroomharvest.com/catalog/index.php

Regarding chemo -- it does take it's toll on the body. Even though they use lower doses for dogs, which makes dogs tolerate it better, it is not without its side effects. There are dogs that don't do well on it, some side effects we can't see, and yes, there are those that even die on the infusion table (I met an owner online







). There are serious questions to weigh.

I agree that a consult with an oncologist is important if there is the slightest chance you are considering chemo. My hunch is that most oncologists will opt for the chemo, because that is what they do. Just like if you go to a surgeon, they cut.

No matter what you decide to do, it's so good that you have Bravo there with you now


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

The chemo for HS is Adriamycin, which is a tough drug. it is cardiotoxic, so the dogs can get 6 rounds max. It is also toxic if the needle moves out of the vein, so it needs careful supervision. BoBo is doing quite well on it. He has appetite loss and some diarrhea dring days 2-5 after treatment. He did not have problems during administration. Overall, he kept his weight and he is in a good mood.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Rebel, I think with all the extra stuff that you are doing, it's countering many of the effects too.

The cardio part of the Adriamycin might be tough of Bravo if they think there is a tumor near the heart. That might be a question at the top of my list.

Rebel, are you giving CoQ-10?
http://cancer.ucsd.edu/outreach/publiceducation/CAMs/coenzymeQ10.asp


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am actually not giving all of this to him, this was just a review of what I found and potentially long-term plan. I plan to rotate as it is impossible to evaluate what is working or not - unless one can do a quality ulrasound daily. HS is not like other cancers where the dog is feeling sick and then improves as the cancer shrinks. These dogs feel OK (normal) until they crash, and then it is too late. With rotating the likelihood that some of it will help is higher - maybe. 

Right now I am happy to be able to get food into him between chemos. Whatever he eats of the supplements is a bonus.

CoQ-10 is a good idea, I will add it to the rotation. 

How is Bravo doing today?
It seems that these dogs bounce back really quickly after the surgery and they act normal. Yesterday we celebrated two months post surgery for BoBo.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

There is a human medication that counteracts the cardiotoxic effects of the adriamycin, it is very expensive though. Maybe $1000 per round.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Bravo is doing OK. He's eaten again this morning, although not as much as I would like but it seems to be heading in the right direction. 

He's very tired and weak, but then again he didn't eat for 3-4 days. At least he's getting up and following us around if we move around the house. He's got a bunch of medications to take:

Aspirin, Prilosec, Sucralfate, Mirtazapine, Tramadol and Cisapride

and trying to get the pattern right is giving me a headache!

Assuming nothing negative happens in the next 2 weeks, we definitely plan on having the oncology consult and we will take it from there.

Rebel, bigs hugs to BoBo on his 2 month anniversary


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

<span style="color: #3333FF"> Make a schedule for the meds.








</span>


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Glad to hear the Bravo is doing well, considering what he has been through. A whey protein powder mix (with no sugars or fake sugars, preferably plain, vanilla if you can't find it) can help get some nutrition in him, and it is a mild cancer fighter. 

Hang in there - this day-by-day stuff is really hard with them









Rebel, congratulations on the anniversary.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

We use this drug as part of Rainer's chemo protocol for lymphoma. It is the "big gun" in cancer fighting! I pay around $550 per dose. I pay a little less because I sit with Rainer for the 45 minutes to an hour it takes to administer the fluids. Otherwise one of the nurses do it so it costs more. Rainer has tolerated this drug very well and has had no side effects from it. The one thing I would do is check your dog for the MDR1 mutation through WSU. If your dog has this or carries the mutation they might need to use a lower dose. 

Rainer has had 7 doses of it to date and will be having his 8th dose in 3 weeks. My oncologist has reviewed data that indicates that children can tolerate more doses than previously thought especially if there is a gap between some of the treatments. Rainer had a year between his 4th and 5th dose so I feel comfortable finishing his MW protocol with all the rounds of Adriamycin. 

Usually in the single protocol, they administer the drug for 5 doses spaced 3 weeks apart, but I have heard of them doing it two weeks as well. Some studies show that this protocol can be as effective as the multidrug ones, but this is the best course recommended for your dogs cancer.

This drug has strict handling and administering precautions. It needs to be prepared in a ventilated area. As far as administration goes, they give a liter of fluids IV prior to administering the Adriamycin (also called Doxorubicin). There is a catheter in the leg and they then use this to administer the drug so there is less chance of the drug getting outside the tissue. I would no have it administered by a regular vet, I would go to an oncologist where this is a routine administration to avoid problems.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Touch wood, Bravo seems to be doing pretty well although he's not eating as much as I would like him to; he only wants to eat boiled chicken and some ANF holistic wet food. He doesn't want to eat any of his dry food.

His intake of chicken is about 12oz per day and about 1/2 can of the wet, which I'm not sure is enough. That said, he does seem better than he was.

He seems more interested in things, wanting to go outside (although he's not allowed of leash, per Dr's orders) and he had a wail along with the firetruck that went past yesterday; he also felt well enough to bark when the UPS guy rang the doorbell to deliver his IP6 supplement!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I would suggest getting him some nutrical. It is a gel high calorie vitamin supplement that most dogs like and will help with his calorie intake. I am on a lymphoma yahoo group and the general consensus is feed them whatever they will eat. 

Here is a link to a homemade cancer diet http://www.cvsangelcare.com/html/ac_cancerdiet.htm . This is the Specialty Hospital where I take Rainer. His Oncologist Dr. Ogilvie is one of the top in the field!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Glad that Bravo is perking up. I would ditch the kibble for now, it's not that nutritional anyway. Can you make food for him or get the preprepared raw patties or chubs?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

BoBo is on the 5 rounds of Adriamycin protocol and he is getting it every 12 days. The normal frequency at Penn is every 14 days so he is on an accelerated regimen. We were told that he (none of the dogs treated at Penn) can get more than 6 rounds (in a lifetime) - my understandig was that this was because of the overall and cardiotoxicity. Obviously the treatments for HS are more frequent than for lymphoma as the HS dogs very rarely live over 6 months.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: PeddersTouch wood, Bravo seems to be doing pretty well although he's not eating as much as I would like him to; he only wants to eat boiled chicken and some ANF holistic wet food. He doesn't want to eat any of his dry food.
> 
> His intake of chicken is about 12oz per day and about 1/2 can of the wet, which I'm not sure is enough. That said, he does seem better than he was.
> 
> He seems more interested in things, wanting to go outside (although he's not allowed of leash, per Dr's orders) and he had a wail along with the firetruck that went past yesterday; he also felt well enough to bark when the UPS guy rang the doorbell to deliver his IP6 supplement!


How is Bravo doing?


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Lisa

He seems to be doing OK. We have him eating little and often as he doesn't want to eat a lot at one sitting. He's getting a mix of the Canine Cancer diet (homemade version of Hills Canine n/d) and boiled chicken and some of his Nutro Natural dry food and he seems to be putting some weight back on.

We have him on an IP-6 supplement and other vitamins to generally perk his system up. I'm waiting for his mushroom powder to arrive (hopefully today).

Frankly I think it's tougher on us than on him! He gets fussed, loved and fed and we get to watch him like a pair of hawks just waiting for something to go wrong, as it eventually will but who knows when; today, tomorrow, a week, a month......?


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Yes on an accelerated protocol the body wouldn't have time to "repair" itself so That is why the protocol calls for 5 rounds and keeps one in "reserve" for future use. Hopefully your dog will be one of the ones who beats the averages! Miracles happen every day.

A lot of people use the "Power Mushrooms" in their cancer treatments. We are using a different mushroom treatment, but I may try these.

I personally wouldn't give the kibble with the grain in it. I would frind a grain-free kibble if you want to go that route. You might want to add beef or pork to his diet as they have a higher calorie count (leaner is better). During Rainer's treatment, he will stop eating lamb for a while and one of the only things he will eat is pork brisket. He has done this at the same stage of his chemo both rounds. I found it very interesting.

Living with the cloud of "cancer" is tough. You have to really push it from your head because the dogs really cue off you. And frankly, worrying and being overly concerned aren't going to change the general out come! I try to keep the "knowledge" of the fact he has cancer in it's own compartment in my brain so it doesn't get overwhelming. I find the joy in each day I have with him and "forgive" the things that before I might have made an issue of. I also try to focus on fighting and winning the battle - I now try to focus on kicking the cancer to the curb! Works for me and has helped me cope over the past 2 years! Infact it was 2 years ago this month when the vet suspected that Rainer had lymphoma and after over 3 weeks of waiting, we got the dreaded diagnosis. Good news is he is still here and feeling great 2 years later!

We will keep Bravo and your family in out thoughts and prayers. I hope he continues to do well and gets stronger each day. May you have lots of quality time together! Here's to winning the battle!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: PeddersFrankly I think it's tougher on us than on him! He gets fussed, loved and fed and we get to watch him like a pair of hawks just waiting for something to go wrong, as it eventually will but who knows when; today, tomorrow, a week, a month......?


Yep, I agree, it's tough because we are aware







He's being _very _well taken care of though!!! Great job on the supplements, though I agree with GS Mom, I wouldn't give any kibble with grains in it at a minimum. 

GS Mom, do you have a link to the mushrooms that you are using? At the time that the vet had me put Indy on them, she said that the Power Mushrooms weren't the most powerful ones that she knows of, but because Indy is a very sensitive and reactive dog, she thought that Indy would do best on those particular ones.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: LisaT
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: PeddersFrankly I think it's tougher on us than on him! He gets fussed, loved and fed and we get to watch him like a pair of hawks just waiting for something to go wrong, as it eventually will but who knows when; today, tomorrow, a week, a month......?
> ...


Re the dry food, is there a good alternative? He doesn't really like rice, although he will eat it with ground beef. I guess I can just up the "cancer diet" and chicken







. I just want to be sure that he is getting the right volume and type of food to a) help him recover from the surgery and b) fight the cancer as best as we are able.

The mushroom powder just arrived and is this:

http://www.mushroomharvest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36_39&products_id=165


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

To the Turkey Tail mushroom (or any other powdered mushroom givers) how much should I be giving him?


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I think you should nix the grains. I think grains are a cancer feeder. Can you feed raw? I think I asked this already but I don't think I got an answer. Raw is often the best option for dogs with cancer. The preprepared raw takes all the guessing out of the picture.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowI think you should nix the grains. I think grains are a cancer feeder. Can you feed raw? I think I asked this already but I don't think I got an answer. Raw is often the best option for dogs with cancer. The preprepared raw takes all the guessing out of the picture.


No we do not feed raw. I don't want to change his diet so dramatically that he goes of his food. Right now the "cancer diet" and chicken seems to be going well so I'll just pull back on the dry.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

You could add a bit of raw. Most dogs go nuts for it. You might also looked for some canned green tripe. Disgusting stuff but they love it and it's incredibly healthy.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Don't know about the Turkey Tail, the others will be on board soon I'm sure. Thank you for the link!!

As for the kibble, if you can swing it, I would go homemade. If you can't, I would see if you can find a small amount of some of the grain free and sample it. Do you have a feed store or something around that sells quality kibble that might have samples? Some sell very small sample size bags. I was going to recommend EVO until I remembered that now there are a bunch of grain free out there. I would also look for the ones highest in protein, lowest in starches, carbs, etc. 

So the rice doesn't work the best (but better than kibble). I buy the big vags of green beans at Sam's Club and the Normandy mix (broccoli, cauliflower and others) and Costco instead of feeding stuff like rice or potatoes. 

Sugar does feed cancer. Cancer cells use glucose at a faster rate than normal cells as part of their feeding. In fact, my Dad is getting a PET scan today and following a glucose trail is essentially how the PET scan works. LOL, this after the nurse in the chemo class told everyone that sugar is okay and watch out for the wackos on the internet that tell you that sugar feeds cancer. LOL, turned to Dad and told him I wasn't a wacko, but I suspect that he knew better anyway, all things considered.









Anyway, do what you can, and don't feel guilty for what you can't.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Forgot to mention, Oster has a veggie steamer (used to be about $30) that will make your life a lot easier if you steam veggies or even hardboil a lot of eggs. I got mine at Amazon, though they had the wrong color at Target. I have the one with the mechanical dial. 

I haven't found a different steamer that has a big enough resevoir (other than that one), so I can steam up a few days at a time, chop them up, and put them in the fridge.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Anyone have views on Wellness CORE or Solid Gold Barking at the Moon grain free kibble?

With regards to feeding eggs; how much and how often? Same with veggies.

The rice is recommended as part of the cancer diet and he eats it well enough with the ground beef so I'm OK with that unless someone tells me that's a cancer feeder too!!!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

I feed BoBo 1/2 tsp of the turkey tail mushroom a day.

How is Bravo feeling today?


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Had good results with Solid Gold Barking at the Moon.


----------



## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDI feed BoBo 1/2 tsp of the turkey tail mushroom a day.
> 
> How is Bravo feeling today?


Touch wood, pretty good. Getting excited when I break out the collar and leash to take him out to the toilet, but disappointed when he realises it's not walkies, just potty!!

Energy levels are not his usual and that's where the diet comes in. Otherwisw, we seem to be heading in the right direction with regards to the surgery recovery. As for the rest, one day at a time.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I started walking BoBo pretty quickly after surgery. He bounced back in no time, but I did not allow running and jumping for some time.
What did the vet recommend for Bravo?


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I think very short walks would be okay for Bravo and slowly build up, and healthy for him, in addition to his mental outlook. First a bit out front, just a couple of houses away for a bit, and then build on that if you can.



> Originally Posted By: PeddersWith regards to feeding eggs; how much and how often? Same with veggies.
> 
> The rice is recommended as part of the cancer diet and he eats it well enough with the ground beef so I'm OK with that unless someone tells me that's a cancer feeder too!!!


I feed the veggies at every meal (I feed no rice, etc.) -- protein and veggies is essentially what I feed my dogs on a daily basis. In the evenings they get the ground flax. One morning a week I have been trying to go primarily veggie with just a bit of sardines, but Indy won't doesn't like the texture, ugh.

Eggs will depend on how Bravo does on them. Indy gets them about 4 days a week (33 lbs, gets 2 eggs for breakfast). Max will pee too much with them in the diet (weird, eh?), so he gets them once a week (5 eggs with veggies), and occasionally I can throw one in for filler when I'm low on his other food.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I think short walks would be excellent for his spirit and mental health--it's vitally important to keep those up!


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Regarding exercise; A&Ms instructions are walking on leash in the yard for elimination purposes only 4-5 times a day. No running, playing or jumping and no off leash until his 2 week check up.

I'll probably go that little bit furher on his elimination walks a couple of times a day. He's still not too steady on his rear legs (or so it seems to me) but I don't know if that is his arthritis/HD or post-operative.

Thanks for all the help.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

How is Bravo doing today? BoBo is asking about his pal...


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDHow is Bravo doing today? BoBo is asking about his pal...


Touch wood, pretty good. Eating well (chicken, beef, rice, sardines, his nice new grain free kibble plus his supplements) wanting to go out but not allowed under vets orders, although I have been extending his toilet breaks a bit! He's paying attention to what's going on but he's not back to his old self yet.

I need to make his follow appointment and oncology consult sometime this week, but I'm scared of jinxing him by doing it - stupid I know, but with this you just don't know.

Knowing that he most likely has a tumour on his heart is keeping our nerves on edge. We're trying to keep happy vibes going for his sake, but it's difficult (I've lost about an inch and a half of my waist line in the last week and a bit!!!)

How about Bobo? Still doing OK?


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

BoBo would like to know how his friend Bravo is doing today?


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDBoBo would like to know how his friend Bravo is doing today?


Eating like the proverbial horse and wondering why he's not allowed out to roam around his garden except on leash! His energy levels are not back up to normal, but he's getting there. We're also stuffing him full of supplements and mushrooms........

Knowing that he almost certainly has a tumour on his heart and more on his liver that they couldn't remove during sugery is an absolute nightmare as he seems to be recovering well but any of these could kill him in no time at all and there is nothing we can do about it.

That said, we're trying to be optimistic and making his follow up/oncology consult for next week in the hope that he can buck the odds.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: Pedders
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: RebelGSDBoBo would like to know how his friend Bravo is doing today?
> ...


I know this goes against the vet's advice but if you know his time is limited, why not take him on walks, outings, etc. and let him enjoy the remainder of his life? That's just my opinion and I know others have different opinions. Big hugs to you and to Bravo!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I would second that. You know your dog and his limitations best.
If he is happy doing what he likes he will heal faster. I am not saying that he should engage in wild exercise, of course.
Hugs to Bravo.


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I agree.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I'm torn on this. On the one hand I want him to enjoy what time is left but on the other I don't want to do anything to shorten that time.

I have taken to giving him short walks rather than just potty trips and we just sit outside for a while so he can take in the sun and fresh air.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

The activity restrictions are because of the surgery, not the cancer. It seems that the hospital is very conservative with activity restriction, but they have not seen Bravo's progress for quite a while.

I know of a Golden that lived 6 months with the HS tumor on the heart. They regularly tapped the fluid around the heart, but the dog was relatively comfortable during that time.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Just thought I'd post a pic of Bravo so you know who we're talking about!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Stunning man...
Does he also have a mohawk?
How is Bravo feeling today?


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDStunning man...
> Does he also have a mohawk?
> How is Bravo feeling today?


Thanks; not bad for a shelter boy! 

Yep, he has the mohawk following surgery. Actually he looks like he has a french poodle cut because they shaved all 4 legs for catheters, monitor pads etc










Bravo's feeling a little tired today. His energy levels seem very low. He's eating and drinking OK and his tongue and gums seem alright as well, so I don't think he's aneamic, but he's just not interested in doing much. He doesn'r seem to be in any distress, just really tired. He did just perk up to a cat meowing on the TV!

I was thinking of taking him to a local vet just in case but A&M said just to wait until his check up on Monday unless he's in obvious distress.

This is all very new to me; I've never had a pet that wasn't either right on or obviously ill.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

He is just gorgeous! The best ones come from the shelters, didn't you know that?









Do you have him on the mushrooms and the Transfer Factor? The Transfer Factor seems to have really increased Chama's energy. I also put her on this Immune Blend stuff from Bertie's Naturals. I don't know if that would be ok for Bravo though. 

Could you take him on some little outings to parks and stuff? Just to do something special? Chama really loves that, even if we only spend 15 or 20 minutes outside.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Quote:
> This is all very new to me; I've never had a pet that wasn't either right on or obviously ill.


Follow your heart. You'll know what's right. 

People ask me -- quite often -- how I know so much about veterinary medicine, what to do in crises, that sort of stuff. I tell them, I learned it all the hard way, in the middle of the night, day by day, holding a paw when there were tubes coming out of my beloved dog, and I couldn't snuggle her any other way. 

Your heart will guide you on the hard stuff. It's not easy. It never is. But you'll figure it out.









For whatever it's worth, there's no reason that I can think of (besides cost) not to take him to a local vet if it will make you feel better. The A&M vets aren't there with Bravo. You are. I know when there's something up with my dog. I have the best specialists available, and I know when I need to do something and even question something the specialists are telling me. 

A second set of eyes (even a tenth set of eyes) never hurts. As long as all of the vets communicate with each other, another set of eyes never hurts. Sometimes, it really helps. Usually, it gives us peace of mind. 

And you can't put a price on that.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Urgh! At the vet right now. Bravo didn't eat last night or this AM. His surgeon at TAMU suggested going to the vet so here we are!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Sending positive thoughts your way...
Hang in there, Bravo!


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

<span style="color: #000099"> Prayers for Bravo...get better boy!!!







</span>


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

So sorry to hear that Bravo is not doing well. Will be sending positive thoughts your way!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Hang in there Bravo. You two Pedders


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

We just brought Bravo back from the local vet. It seems his bloodwork is OK; some things are are little high and some things are a little low but most things are mid-range - there's nothing that seems to have given her any cause for concern from that point of view. His electrolyres also seem to be OK. 

They took 2 films of his chest and could find nothing wrong with his lungs and whilst there was still, obviously, the mass on his heart there didn't appear to be too much fluid there. They have passed the films on to the radiographer at Gulf Coast for a double check.

He did have an elimination whilst we were there that was quite loose.

He was a little dehydrated so he received subcutaneous fluids. He also received a Cerenia injection and a prescription for Mirtazapine, although I haven't given him any yet.

He just ate a little chicken so here's hoping it's just a good old fashioned upset stomach!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

BoBo and I - we are sending many positive thoughts to Bravo.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Sounds like good news overall. Maybe too many changes so soon?

Give him some extra snuggles from the pack here.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTSounds like good news overall. Maybe too many changes so soon?
> 
> Give him some extra snuggles from the pack here.


That's what we are hoping; meds, completely new diet, supplements etc causing an upset stomach. It sucks having him dehydrated but if that's the least of it I'll take it.

We'll see what he's like in the morning!

Bravo says thanks for the hugs


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Ii hope Bravo is feeling better today. This unfortunately is a side effect of the chemo. I pretreat Rainer with Cerenia prior to his chemo and then give it for a few days after to keep him from getting nauseous. He will sometimes get liquidy diarrhea which is the guts reaction to the chemo. I don't worry about this if he is drinking ok and his energy is good as it usually clears in a couple days. 

I have found that if you can prevent the nausea the dogs will at least drink even if they don't want to eat. Our oncologists recommends pretreating and they send home meds for diarrhea and nausea with all their patients. Standard protocol and they also recommend bringing the dog in if you are concerned, better safe than sorry.

Rainer had one "bad" couple of days during his first round of chemo. He was getting reglan at the time which he had a reaction to so. I think it was like 5 days after his treatment, he wouldn't eat or drink, was vomiting, had diarrhea and was lethargic. It was really hot here which made it worse. I brought him into the clinic and they gave him a Cerenia shot, and he was on fluids for most of the day. I picked him up that night and he preceded to vomit a ton of water on the way out the door. By the next moring he was feeling much better and was able to hold water and food down. He was switched to Cerenia tablets for nausea after that and knock wood hasn't had a problem this round.

Hugs to Bravo and we are sending prayers and good thoughts your way!


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

GS Mom, Bravo isn't having chemo yet. We are due to visit the oncology dept at TAMU on monday morning to discuss our options.

I'll be honest and say the way he is at the moment they will say that the trade off of discomfort versus effectiveness isn't going to be worth it. 

He's eating and drinking a little but not as much as I would like. As I said, we really hope everything this last couple of days has just been a regular upset tummy.

He does seem to have some fluid under the flesh on his chest - they gave him subQ fluids on Friday so I wonder if this is some of that floating around, but I just don't know!


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I would be worried about the fluid and would call the vet. One of the reasons for the strict rest orders are because he has been through a major surgery and his body is very susceptible to infection and other complications from the surgery. Any stress on the system at this point can cause failure of any component of the immune system. I would be worried that he may be developing a bleeding disorder.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Bravo's now at the emergency vet







. They are keeping him in over the rest of the weekend; he seems OK except for the shallow breathing and the feel of fluid in his chest. His blood is 100% oxygenated and his blood work seems OK as well (if a wee bit aneamic). They are thinking maybe something with his lymph gland.

This sucks and blows in the worst way.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Oh crap. I am so sorry. I will be sending extra healing thoughts for him today.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am really sorry. I hope he rallies again. Big hugs to you guys!


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I'm so sorry to hear this. Have they done an ultrasound of his heart?


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Sending lots of positive thoughts to Bravo.


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

<span style="color: #000099"> Oh no....prayers for Bravo Boy.







</span>


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Bravo is a beautiful boy. I am so sorry you all are going through this but I wish all dogs were so well loved.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Just spoke with the vets. Bravo had a comfortable night and ate breakfast, which is good. 

The fluid in his chest seems to have decreased (they are giving him a drug that re-absorbs fluid into tissue, if that makes any sense).

They say he is alert (not chipper, but alert) when they come to check up on him and is paying a lot of attention to the hawk in the cage net door - yep you read that correctly, there is a hawk in the cage at 90 degrees to Bravo; a farmer found it in injured his field and bless him he brought it into the emergency vet. 

The plan is for them to keep him stable up to us taking him to TAMU for his follow up at TAMU on Monday morning.


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am glad he seems to be stabilizing. The recovery from this surgery is very hard, which is why the vets issue "strict" orders about exercise and confinement. I know a lot of the board members mean well, but I have found when a vet issues very restrictive orders regarding exercise there is a reason for it and it is in your dogs best interest to follow the instructions to the letter - meaning walk out to potty and walk back in. I take it he had cardiac involvement which makes everything that happens more critical. 
Hopefully this was just a "bump" in his road to recovery. Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

With respect to the extended "walks" that Bravo got, I can't imagine that they contributed to this, as they were a couple of blocks, because Pedders was very careful and knew the limits of Bravo.

While we encouraged him to let Bravo have a bit more exercise, I noticed that Pedders was wise in how he did that, and only a few extra steps were allowed. 

I am wondering if this isn't somehow related to the heart. Pedders, did they say anything about that? Did they mention how or why this happens?


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Lisa, apart from the mass on the heart that was already there, there doesn't appear to be anything else going on there or with his lungs; it's very confusing. 

It's always possible that he has an infection and what is going on has nothing to do with the HS per se. The emergency clinic are treating the symptoms as nothing is blindingly obvious from bloodwork etc.

As I think I said, his blood oygentation is at 100% and whilst his WBC is elevated, it's still below the level at discharge from TAMU.

We are due at TAMU 1000hrs Monday, so I guess we'll find out then. Please keep







that it's something controllable and we get a little longer with our big boy!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

Fingers, toes and paws crossed (we need smilies for all of those!)


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

He's gone









Just got a call from the emergency clinic and long story short he went into respiritory distress and despite their best efforts he passed.

Add to this to the fact that my father died 2 months ago and my world is not the best at the moment.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am so very sorry. What an awful double hit you have taken. Know we are all here for you guys.


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## pupresq (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am so very sorry for both your losses. Seven is way too young to go. RIP brave sweet Bravo.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

OMG, I'm so very sorry. This happening such a short time after losing your father is such a tradgedy. My condolences to you and all who loved him.








Rest in peace Bravo, run free at the Bridge.


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: tumors - spleen & liver/I'm so sorry*

Oh no. I am so very sorry









You did everything that you possibly could for him







pupresq is right, seven is way too young.







Bravo


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: tumors - spleen & liver/I'm so sorry*

I am so very sorry. What a tragic loss. You loved Bravo so much and he knew it and you did everything you possibly could for him.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: tumors - spleen & liver/I'm so sorry*

Oh my gosh - what a terrible loss. Bravo fought a good fight and so did you. I am so sorry. And I'm also so sorry about your dad. I can't imagine having those two losses within a few months of each other.

Run free and healthy sweet Bravo...


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## LJsMom (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: tumors - spleen & liver/I'm so sorry*

Oh no. I am very sorry. Such an awful loss.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Oh my, I am so sorry. Both about Bravo and your father


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I'm SO sorry.







We lost Dena at a young age in a very short period of time back in October - I know just how hard this is for you. She went from perfectly fine to gone in 3 weeks.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: Cassidys MomI'm SO sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty much what happened. Took him for a walk, played in the garden for a while and then he went for a lie down. Couple of hours later he doesn't want to get up. Next day to the vet (whole other story, already told) then to TAMU and we learn about a disease I'd never hear of and less than 3 weeks later he's gone.

This sucks so badly; when I have to go back to the UK in a couple of weeks Cindy will be left in the house all on her own, with no Bravo to come home to or guard her at night. She's taking it badly now; it's goning to hit her even harder then


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## Jazzstorm (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

<span style="color: #000099">Oh my gosh...I am so very sorry. My deepest sympathies to you and your family.








Bravo </span>


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am so sorry for your loss


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## djpohn (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am sorry to hear you lost Bravo to this silent killer! You tried everything you could for him and in the end that is what counts. He knew he was loved every day he was with you and that was the greatest gift you could give him. I hope time will ease the pain of your loss!


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Oh gosh, I was gone this weekend and just saw this post. 

I know entirely too well the anguish of losing a bright vibrant boy so fast that you're just stunned. How can this be? He was fine just a few weeks ago. "This can NOT be true!" Your heart cries. 

I'm so sorry. I wish some way we could make it stop being true for you and Cindy. You did EVERYTHING you were supposed to do. You acted so fast. Your love was so obvious even through through the internet. I'm heartbroken for you. 

I'm just so terribly sorry.
















Lori


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

OMG, I am so sorry...

My internet was down over the weekend I just saw this. I know how you feel, I lost my previous dog Lady to hemangiosarcoma within three days. She was too sick even for surgery. After Lady I got BoBo who came down with hemangiosarcoma at the age of 9.
It is a terrible disease that kills so quickly.

It may comfort you a little that Bravo had a wonderful life with you and he did not suffer at the end. Even though you could not be with him, he even had a hawk to entertain him during those hours at the ER.

Take care of yourself and Bravo will be watching over you.

Run free handsome Bravo...


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## kaylesraven (Jul 2, 2008)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

Oh no.....I am so sorry.

Many hugs to you.

Run free sweet Bravo


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## natalie559 (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

So sorry to hear of this awful news! Sending you strength!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I am sorry about your loss of Bravo. I can't imagine how lonely Cindy is going to be. 

RIP Bravo.


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## Pedders (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*



> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerI am sorry about your loss of Bravo. I can't imagine how lonely Cindy is going to be.
> 
> RIP Bravo.


The good thing is that after initially stating that there will never be another pet in our house, she stopped me packing up Bravo's leads, collars, bowls etc to give to the humane society because we will need them when we eventually get another dog! 

So yes, she will be lonely but at some point it looks like we will get another pup. Will he be another Bravo? very unlikely as I believe he was a once in a lifetime dog. Cindy is adamant that it will be a another black male GSD, but we will see....


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: HELP - Kidney Problems/tumors - spleen & liver*

I think you need some time yet. Of course it isn't going to be antoher Bravo. GSD's have different and great personalities. I have 4 currently they are all different and I love them all dearly. Are they like my first GSD, nope, but they are each their own personality. 

MY DH gets sad when he see's my oldest female acting more like our first GSD. I don't, I am just happy that I have them for as long as I can have them. They have taught me to live a more in the present than in the past.

Val


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