# Zoey's training



## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

I wanted to dedicate a thread on Zoey's training and progression. If you don't know Zoey, she's my belgium mali/gsd mix rescue that was adopted on 4/29/12 It has been a loonnnngggg road with her and she's been doing great, until the past week or so. 

I would like to start by saying she's off to her consultation tomorrow for training, we've been having problems with her nipping and constantly mouthing. She got my buddy in the arm this weekend, i went out to get him during the evening, he was behind me and i bent down to grab her by the collar to push her back and she want right for his arm and ripped his shirt. No blood but it was a fairly hard bite and ripped his sweater, i had him give her two treats when they were both inside and she seemed fine, she's met him before and showered him with kisses in the past. I think this was more of a protective "hey, who the ef are you" type of bite but still, NOT OK to put her mouth on anyone unless i give it the ok.

Also my brother was playing catch with a football with his buddy outside, she was the monkey in the middle and she nipped him in the arse.... I understand how this would set her up to do something wrong in which I told my brother to keep her inside if your going to tease her, but still not ok. 

Her progress with dog socialization has stopped because my neighborhood has a few off leash dogs that like to bombard us during our walks.... now when she see's them she goes bezerk where-as before she would heel nicely and ignore most dogs. 

The fact that Zoey WILL bite is the scary part, I don't want these nips to get any worse. Even with all these quirks, I still love her to death... I just hope we can fix these issues...

She is set up for tomorrow with Steve @ K-9 Top Performance | The best performance your dog can give.
I plan to enroll her into "K9 camp" where you pay extra but you get more then regular daycare. "K-9 Camp is a more concentrated structured "daycare". Your dog will be trained and socialized with other dogs all throughout the day. We will work on the basic commands that you are working on in obedience, as well as walking on the leash. We spend a lot of time teaching them the proper manners needed for socialization with other dogs and people."

I think this would be a great way to start her road to progress because I just don't have the knowledge in training dogs like I thought I did. I think once a week at k9 camp will be great and then see how she is, whether she needs more training and socialization. I will keep this thread updated 
and your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

At the end of the day, I will never give this dog up. I gave her up once to try for a better life only to return in worse condition. She is mine forever and I will do what ever it takes.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the update. I was wondering how beautiful Zoey was coming along. It's great you have hired a professional trainer. For the loose dogs, I can sure understand and it is very annoying. Of course, my dog being lawfully walked on his leash wants to join in, and isn't allowed to. When I see loose dogs, I immediately turn - my dog is on heel - and go in the other direction. I reward my dog for obeying the heel. That action often stops the loose dogs from following because they see the other dog is with his human - heeling - and not free to play. For the monkey in the middle situation, Zoey has a high drive and will play to win, so those games are out, as you probably already have realized. For grabbing your friend by the arm, she is very protective and you don't know what trauma she went thru in the past. An animal behaviorist (maybe your trainer can recommend one) could help you with that. All I can suggest is to be very careful with her around other people so she cannot get into situtations that will trigger her aggression. The others who have experience with fear/people/aggression issues will be helpful in their replies.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thank you Mary Beth, I will definitely try your loose dog trick. We normally just stop dead in our tracks and it's usually to late to do anything since I have to be in my defensive state in case one of these dogs tries and grab's my leg or worse, Zoey. I do have a behaviorist nearby thats awesome so if he recommends it, I will see what they have to say. I'm going to put a muzzle on her for her consultation because I just don;t know how she's going to react with all the dogs there and what not. If the trainer was a woman, I wouldn't. I feel like Zoey will just snap sometimes with men but when it comes to ANY female person, she is an absolute doll and hasn't shown the slightest bit of discomfort let alone aggression with them.

If she has aggression issue's, it's ok. I just want to know exactly what will trigger them. We go to the consultation in a few hours so I'll be sure to post back on the outcome. Very excited.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Hope your consultation went well and they'll be able to help Zoey. Their website is certainly impressive and the home lessons working with Zoey in your home would also be very worthwhile in addition to their day training program. My Husky (adopted when she was 2) was afraid of men. The neighbor loved dogs, but I had so say, sorry, but please don't approach. I would watch her, she was not as overtly aggressive as Zoey, she didn't attack, but she would back up - hair rising on neck -ears back. I would quickly have her sit - stand in front of her - exchange a brief hello, then quickly turn and go. It took about a year and when she understood that men would not come up to her - she relaxed and to my surprise, one day when my dad was visiting - she went right up to him. A year from now, with the stability of a good home, training ,care, and love you are giving to Zoey, the same could happen. She loves you, so she has accepted one man - that's a start


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary Beth, that is certainly comforting to hear. The consultation yesterday went great. He explain how this breed is much different than a regular GSD and the fact that she was adopted, abused and neglected, he was surprised how good she actually was. He believes the bites were out of anxiety and sensing fear which explains ALOT, he demonstrated the proper ways to introduce Zoey to new people and if they have any bit of fear to not even try it.

He simulated himself being fearful and while Zoey was sitting on the floor, she glimpsed over at the fearful state and FED off of it, Mali mouth snaps and growling out of no where. I corrected her and she was fine. He then simulated why some of the bites happen because most people go up to her the wrong way, basically challenging her without knowing it. He puffed himself up and reached over and while she was minding her own business, listening to the other dogs doing head tilts, she caught a glimpse and again, FED off of it and started snapping and growling. It all started to become perfectly clear that she's not as bad as I thought it was.

He recommended the k9 camp and possible basic obedience but highly recommended protection work with her drive and energy... needless to say the old lady didnt agree with the protection part. He told me I could think it over and just let him know when we are ready and if we wanted to do any of this..... needless to say, I dropped Zoey off this morning


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks so much for the update. You have certainly found the most perfect trainer for Zoey. It is really impressive how the trainer could trigger her reactions and show there is a reason for her behavior. I did wonder about the protection training, as an outlet for her and she seems to be a natural, but at the same time, I agree with your hesitations, and I would hold off on that also. If you're not already doing it, a good outlet for her prey drive is to play tug with her. I use 2 tugs with Sting - they are on leashes and I scoot them along the ground -he has to wait on the down/stay until I give the release command. I do wear thick gloves. As soon as he grabs one tug - I tug it, then drop it, and grab the other one, and so one, until he wins. When he brings the tugs to me, he gets a reward. I use tug after his obedience practice. Zoey may enjoy it that way since I think she and you will be getting "homework." I am sure Zoey will be tired out tonight after her school day. I can well understand how relieved and happy you must be.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

:Update:
Day #1
I pulled into the parking lot only to see Steve walking Zoey in a perfect heel. Well that's a relief! I was worrying all day how she would do with Steve and his employee's and was praying everything went well. He had some good news and bad news for me so I'll do my best to describe it.

Good news: Steve said Zoey did awesome! She warmed right up to him and all his employees in NO TIME! He said she is such a sweetheart :wub: and with some socializing, he see's no serious issue's with people aggression. Steve also said he hasn't seen prey drive like Zoey has in a LONG time and was ecstatic about it, highly recommended protection training in the future. He also said if she was ever to much for me, he would take her in a second.... Nice to know that but sorry, Zoeys allllll mine 

Bad news: Steve believes Zoey has serious dog aggression issues but with time, he believes he can correct it. It will be a long road but he's optimistic about it. The crazy part is, I figured it would be the complete opposite. I have a theory that some may disagree with, but all-in-all, it is a theory. I think that Zoey's first encounter with all the new people, a day care with 20 dogs, and without her daddy being there was extremely stressful and acted defensively. I think once she gets used to it this whole k9 camp deal, she'll come around and show her true colors

I just dont how she could be aggressive, I mean look at these pictures.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow, It sounds like Zoey has made a lot of great progress. I'm glad that you found Steve and that he seems to know how to handle your girl. I know that you are on the fence about protection training but, maybe in time if you give Zoey a job, this will give her an outlet for some of the agression issues. 
Happy training!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Nicky B., I agree with you. I also would have thought the complete opposite: okay with other dogs, but touchy with the new people. I would also have thought like you, it was due to first day stress, then I got to thinking what Steve said, about the high drive and protection training, and how he would take her. On his website, I read that Steve had planned to be a K-9 handler. Dogs like Zoey are very hard to find. She is a natural at protection training. You are first in Zoey's heart, but Steve is her handler during the weekday. He is enamored of her and has formed a bond. If that hadn't happened, Zoey would not have been cooperative at all, and she needs training. So, just my thoughts, Zoey doesn't want to share, she is the only dog with you, so when Steve turns to another dog - that's it, instead of sulking, she goes into drive. If I were you I would put aside my hesitation and I would sign her up for the protection training, that would give Zoey the outlet and she would learn how to control her agression. The dog learns to stop the protection on the Out command as I know from my Dobe who was defense trained before I got her. Also, if you practice with her, you will keep that bond strong. I play tug with my Sting, not because I want to, but because he needs it as an outlet for his prey drive, and the tug satisfies that drive and he associates me with doing that. Cheer up - today is Friday - you'll have the whole weekend with her, make the most of it. Steve doesn't use treats in his training according to the website - so open up the high powered treats after a good game of tug that Zoey wins at the end. And most important, all weekend she will not have to share you with another dog


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Bear GSD said:


> Wow, It sounds like Zoey has made a lot of great progress. I'm glad that you found Steve and that he seems to know how to handle your girl. I know that you are on the fence about protection training but, maybe in time if you give Zoey a job, this will give her an outlet for some of the agression issues.
> Happy training!


It's a start to a long journey but I do feel like we jumped the highest hurdle so far. I am 100% about doing protection work, the wife is the one who wants no part in it. She believes that if you have and train your dog in protection work, our sweet loving Zoey will be no more! I tried to talk her out of it but hopefully I can persuade her that she won't change. Steve showed us a poster of his award wining Dutch Shepard (for protection work) laying down with his infant laying on his ribs. I turned and said "vicious dog huh"  I'll work on her more though.

I appreciate the input!


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Nicky B., I agree with you. I also would have thought the complete opposite: okay with other dogs, but touchy with the new people. I would also have thought like you, it was due to first day stress, then I got to thinking what Steve said, about the high drive and protection training, and how he would take her. On his website, I read that Steve had planned to be a K-9 handler. Dogs like Zoey are very hard to find. She is a natural at protection training. You are first in Zoey's heart, but Steve is her handler during the weekday. He is enamored of her and has formed a bond. If that hadn't happened, Zoey would not have been cooperative at all, and she needs training. So, just my thoughts, Zoey doesn't want to share, she is the only dog with you, so when Steve turns to another dog - that's it, instead of sulking, she goes into drive. If I were you I would put aside my hesitation and I would sign her up for the protection training, that would give Zoey the outlet and she would learn how to control her agression. The dog learns to stop the protection on the Out command as I know from my Dobe who was defense trained before I got her. Also, if you practice with her, you will keep that bond strong. I play tug with my Sting, not because I want to, but because he needs it as an outlet for his prey drive, and the tug satisfies that drive and he associates me with doing that. Cheer up - today is Friday - you'll have the whole weekend with her, make the most of it. Steve doesn't use treats in his training according to the website - so open up the high powered treats after a good game of tug that Zoey wins at the end. And most important, all weekend she will not have to share you with another dog


Thanks Mary Beth, your post made perfect sense! My main concern is Zoey training with other dogs, I want her focused on the sleeve and nothing else, ya'know? I will 100% be breaking out the secret treats for her and maybe get her a nice piece of chicken or steak this weekend... actually I might get her some after every training day/session as a reward, thoughts? 
Playing tug is a great idea, we got a few ropes around and we will be playing with them a lot this weekend. You're right about the weekend, Zoey and I will be doing some serious bonding, I was all bright eyed and bushy tailed this morning going to work knowing its Friday, only to get pulled over 10 minutes later  Oh well, no ticket... 

p.s. You have a Dober??:wub::wub: I was planning on buying a Dober puppy until Zoey's ad came up, then I planned on waiting a year or two and buying that puppy... now i cant have either  Any pics?!?!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I would bet Zoey will be so focused on the sleeve, a whole pack of dogs could run by her. When I am playing tug with my Sting in the backyard, he couldn't care less about the neighbor's dogs or even if the UPS man is coming - he is totally focused on me. Also the photos you posted showed her on a leash with another dog. If she was loose with other dogs in the play area at the trainers , well, that would be like a dog park situation, and assuming Steve was there observing - then competition for his attention. For the treats - you may want to have some (freeze dried chicken liver treats will keep) when you pick her up from day care - she'll smell them - then slip her one right when you both get out the door. For the treats after training, be sure it is after she has obeyed your command, whether it is to drop the ball after a retrieve, or sit, and so on. Alternate during the training session with praise (voice, touch - a gentle pat on her side, if she likes that) and treats, so she doesn't expect them everytime. You want her to focus and work on pleasing you. My GSD Sting was named after my Dobe who died. I've attached her photo - click to enlarge. I am only going to say this once and please don't take it the wrong way - but Zoey may not be suitable for a pet home - I am guessing that it why she was given up. She may always need to be managed and that can be very hard for you in the long run. She may always have issues with other people and now other dogs. Steve wants to work her and train her, she wants to do that work, she would be happy. You also deserve to be happy. That said. You both have a nice weekend.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Update: Day#2:

I picked Zoey up from K9 camp last night and Steve was nothing but happy with Zoey. She did tremendously well and she showed her goofy side to everyone. Steve captured a small video in which he had her in a room will a small wall in it, long story short he would go back and forth, call Zoey in each window and she would be bouncing back and forth over the wall. I'm glad they got to see the better side of Zoey instead of just the furious beast she portrayed the first visit.

I didn't get into to much detail with Steve on the training yet which I plan to over email but briefly he was very pleased. He had her outside in a sit with a neighboring dog that barks and lunges was on the other side of the fence. She was shaking but she stayed in a sit, focused on Steve which is AWESOME! 

I can already see the changes in Zoey, I was walking out of the kennel and its a small hall to the door. Going in, a woman walked past and Zoey sneaked a lick on her hand and on the way out, a man was walking in and she sniffed him and licked him on the arm. Before all this training, my uncle and Grampy came over for supper one day and was on the couch, Zoey was walking around and my uncle called her over, only for her to jump on his lap and lick his face for a good minute, she sat next to my Grampy and got lots of rubs, and she loves my mothers fiance. I honestly don't see the human aggression looking at everything. This was just a quick write up while I had a second at work, I'll try and post a more in depth analysis soon.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the update. Zoey has made amazing progress! Looking forward to reading how next week goes. Are you planning to take classes with her at some point?


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Zoeys been to k-9 camp twice since the last entry and has made some amazing progress so far. The last camp visit was the best experience yet, Zoey and I hop out the car to an open door and Steve and his employee shouting "ZOEYYYYY" They love her over there and she's getting used to them. They've been working with her getting used to the muzzle and being comfortable with it on, as have I at home and whenever we go for walks.

The best part is when I was walking in to pick her up, Steve was sitting at the desk just smiling. "Ugh, whats up dude?" and his response was "Zoey did amazing at camp today, we had her out in doggy day-camp most of the day (they also do a doggy daycamp there with about 15-20 other dogs) socializing her with the other dogs, she wore a muzzle and although she muzzle punched a couple of dogs, she did excellent!!!!" WOW, a complete 180 from when she first started there and now, I feel like my theory was correct and we're on the right road. Her biggest problem is when they put her in the kennel to calm down or after a walk or something, she poops, he says this was common with a lot of rescue dogs.

All and all, I'm happy thus far. I work with Zoey everyday on all of our basic commands (sit, down, roll over, pretty girl, paw, up, stay etc) and introducing her with new ones. This week we've been working on "focus" and she's catching on quick, just a little more work and she'll have it perfected. I plan on taking classes with her very soon, but I don't think shell need the beginner course (seems like a waste of money since she knows all commands) the thing we need to work on is focusing on me with other distractions around.

My biggest concern now is getting her used to other male humans. So far, she's bit my buddies father (rear of the leg), my buddy on the arm, my lil brothers friend (backpack ) and his other friend (just a ripped sweatshirt). Everyone who enters the house now needs a couple of treats so that she see's strangers as friends and not threats. This will be the hardest step I feel. On a side note, she loves my uncle, my nephew, brother in law, brother, mothers fiance, some of my brothers friends. It's just some certain people set her off.

PS heres Zoeys boyfriend, Steve's DS. He does this everytime Zoey walks in, he literally stayed in this exact position for the 10 minutes i was there.


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

Glad she's doing better, I've been waiting for an update. That pic is priceless.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

Sounds like Zoey is doing awesome! I took a class not too long ago with Bear, it was meant for reactive dogs, but I took it to gain more focus with Bear. It was based on the book "Control Unleashed" by Patricia McConell. 
They also taught other techniques in the class like Doggy Zen and the Relaxation Protocol. Here's a link to some of the techniques that you can work with Zoey at home if you like.
Articles - General Dog Training and Behavior - DOG WILLING Positive Dog Training Solutions

It really helped me with Bear and his lack of focus. I'm really glad that Zoey is doing so well and that you are putting in so much time and energy to getting her where she can definitely be!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Wow, Zoey is really an A+ student! And of course, school is more fun with a boyfriend - what a cute picture. I can understand why she poops in her kennel - she is probably so excited and busy that she keeps putting it off. As she relaxes around other dogs, I think the potty situation will improve. I sure Steve could recommend at which class level you both should start. Well, Zoey likes half the human population (women) and she is slowly but surely with your help learning to like some of the other half (men).


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the comments! I'd also like to add that Zoey has been doing great around other men so far! My mother had a dinner for thanksgiving and she had two new guys there (my older brother and half sister boyfriend) and Zoey did awesome! The crazy thing was my half sister AND her boyfriend were petrified of Zoey when they first came in, and Zoey laid her sweet baby persona down and they left loving her! 
Also my mothers fiance came in later on and (he loves dogs, actually brings his puppy to Steve as well) after a brief introduction, he had her doing tricks... IN GERMAN?!?!?! wtf didn't even know she knew that.. although when I tried the sayings she didn't know what I was talking about? Then again I don't know any German other than platz. I'll see what Steve says about this one lol.

So far so good, I'm hoping to socialize her more with my friends soon. It will be a bit harder now that its winter but would anyone happen to have any ideas how to just bring her around more men in general without being to close. I just don't want to set her up to fail, ya'know? 

In the next year, I plan to move into a new place closer to all my friends and family. That being said, I'm hoping we can get to the point where all my buddies can just walk in without having to worry about the Zohan!! Were on that level with my best friend, he'll just waltz right in, pat Zoey on the head and they'll be fine.

Also, Zoey's going to camp again tomorrow so I should have another update soon. Hopefully I get a chance to talk to Steve about future training and what not.

Another thing I forgot to mention that I found very odd.... Zoey and I were playing in my bed when she mouthed my leg, I then took a soft pillow and hit her with it lightly. The force wouldn't have hurt an infant but she stopped, ears down, head down and walked away. I had to go pick her up off her bed and carry her back to get her to lay with us again. Then she snuggled mom but not dad  I don't know why but she got really scared, something we ought to look into.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Wonderful update - I wondered how Zoey did with all the company over Thanksgiving. For the German commands - ask your friend to teach you or record him - you could take a video of him doing it with Zoey - so you could both practice. Now, I wonder if she would also like to hear some French being as she is part Malinois? For the men - you need to go where the men are. You could try outside of gyms, financial districts, garages. If you can take her when school is starting or getting out, or a college campus - that would help to socialize her and not just with men. For the pillow incident - well, now you know - no hitting no matter how playful . You will need to use only your voice (use the German word - say sharply "Nein" pronounced like the number nine - means "No"). So when she mouths - say sharply "Nein, mein" (pronounced nine, mine) means "no, mine" -let your hand or leg to limp - she will let you go- then praise. It also helps if you can give her a favorite toy and say cheerfully "this is yours" as she mouths that. Also if she acts real hurt - don't act contrite in return. She knows she got carried away. Don't try to make up - or she won't get the idea that her actions were not acceptable.


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## Bear GSD (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm so happy that Zoey is still progressing so well! I'm including a link for you on a list of German commands for you to have fun looking at and trying.
German Dog Training Command Words | German Shepherd Breed Training

Who knew that Zoey was bi-lingual


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Zoey did great at k9 camp yesterday and last Thursday! Basically, all the camp has been doing is socializing her with other dogs and work on her obedience. She's been out on the floor with the other dogs for most of the day while wearing a muzzle. The past two weeks, she's been doing better and Steve is still shocked as to how well she's been doing. Her biggest issue now is when a dog runs by her, she get's her drive going and gets all riled up. I wish I could give you more in depth updates, but this is really all the information i get. I get that she's been doing great but what are the specifics? The main question I have is will she ever be able to co-exist with other dogs and will she ever be a people person? I have a lot of friends and family and I would LOVE to have Zoey around them, but at the same time, I just don't trust her. She's usually fine after the fact but it's the initial introduction that either goes great, or horribly wrong. 

Zoey's met my old lady's parents once, she obviously loved her mom but only met her dad once, and he just walked by and she sniffed his hand. She jumped up on her brother (25y.o) and licked him in the face about 37 times. They have an AWESOME backyard and pool that their dog pretty much lives in the summer, so I really want to get her over there and swim without having to worry she's going to have a Jack Russel snack. My plan is to bring her over there in the summer, muzzled and on leash for the first few visits. They've gone for walks together and were fine, but when they get face to face, is when Zoey wants him to back off. 

Steve believes we should hop in a basic obedience class to start off. We'll start most likely after the holidays. I think the best part is that is a smaller class, between 2-8 dogs, and although it will be brutal at first trying to get her to concentrate on me, rather the other dogs, I think it will be best. I love the kennel and the staff there, I just wish I had more feedback, or is this normal? I know it will take time but how much longer? I don't mind spending the money if it's *going* to work. although $40 a pop doesn't seem like a whole lot, after 10 sessions, it's starting to add up.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I can understand your impatience. On the plus side, Zoey has made extraordinary progress. Steve is the perfect trainer for her. And just think how far she has come since you started taking her to him. On the otherside, my opinion is that perhaps your expectations of what training can achieve with Zoey may not be realistic. Yes, she needs classes and she needs lots of work. But will all this training make her the sociable dog you would like? IMO, I don't think so (I hope I'm wrong). Zoey is a great dog. She has a high drive and would do well in IPO. That alone would make her a perfect dog for a certain owner. IMO, this is the nitty gritty of having a dog. Can one accept the dog for what she is, love her, train her and still be happy? There are compromises in every area of life, and the tough question is can one accept the compromise. It will be interesting to read what other say.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Mary Beth, you really make me think outside of my normal thought process and that's a good thing!. I guess I needed another's perspective on the subject to clarify my vision. Deep down, I know Zoey will never be like Princess was on a social level, I took that dog everywhere with me, where as Zoey will always need to be managed. I was spoiled with princess and I accept it. Maeg and I LOVE Zoey, we accept her for who she is as a doggy, including her good and bad sides. She is literally the perfect dog when she's around people she knows, let alone me and Maegan. 

The more I think about it, the more I think she'll need to live in a 1 dog type of home  I'm willing to give her that, any care, training, anything... My dream was always to have a Doberman, after Princess passed away, I threw a deposit down on a doberman and was waiting for a litter. Maegan talked me into an older dog since we really didn't have time for a puppy just yet. I seen Zoey and immediately seen Princess in her, the way she acted (and acts when its just us) is just like Princess.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

That's a great perspective you both have. I agree what is most important is how Zoey is with you and Maegan- her family, and that you are both happy with her at home. For the only pet, well, I am a member of that club. I wasn't always - had cats too. When elderly Miss Mavis went to catnip heaven, I decided to wait. I always had to watch - she was good with my Sting - but would tease. Sting well, he has eliminated the rabbit population in my back yard. So, I thought if the cat or kitten would run by him... I didn't want to chance it. To my surprise, it has been great with only Sting. You may well find the same with Zoey. For the Dobe, that can be your next dog. And since I have had a Dobe, I really think you will realize how much Zoey has taught you. It worked that way in reverse for me - the Dobe was an excellent "training ground" for my having a GSD.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

UPDATE:
Zoey did good as usual on Thursday, she was out with the other dog's pretty much all day and only got excited twice when the other dogs were running past her. The more I think about it, the more I agree with only having 1 dog with us. Zoey is exhausting as is, and she's been costing me a fortune, I can only imagine the expenses with two! I'll admit, she's worth every penny.

Past two weeks have been up and down with Zoey, the past week she's been a sweet angel at home, but the week prior, she was out of her mind. When she's full of energy, she tends to nip if I try to ignore her but if I play, my leg will somehow end up in her mouth. It's not a bite, it's more like my legs in her mouth and she's applying a bite of pressure, although she doesn't realize her force sometimes lol I've done it all to prevent this though, I hold her mouth shut, yell AH AH AH AH AH, whimping like injured dog, and put her toy in her mouth instead. Nothing, she'd rather have my leg in her mouth. I don't mind a mouthy dog, but this is crossing the line. Any other idea's how to correct this?
The rescue recommended a shock collar for this and her snapping at your face. This is when she gives kisses and chomps real close to your face, it is pretty scary although she's never gotten anyone, it scares the crap out of other people and myself. I do correct her for it and she's been getting a lot better, I don't even move my head back anymore when she does it but I will correct it. I don't believe in shock collars nor do I want to use one, but I'm running out of options. The only thing I can think of is leave her prong collar on and when doe does either, snap it real quick.

Zoey is slowly molding into the right dog for me, it's a long journey but we will get there. I don't think Zoey was socialized with anything in her previous life, she's a hard learner and needs a strong correction or she won't stop the bad behavior. Some time's she the sweetest dog, and when she's hyper and full of energy, she's a nut case. I take her for daily walks and give her plenty of exercise when I get home from work, but sometime's its just not enough. She's been doing great around other people and we haven't had any incident's (knock on wood) for a while, although I'm still iffy about bringing my guy friends around her.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Thanks for the update. Zoey's holiday present can be more K9 time with Steve. Especially in winter when she gets frisky with the cold. Yes - I agree with you - one dog is plenty for me. Turgid Rugass the Norwegian trainer actually commented that having 2 dogs is 4 times as much work. You may want to look into her Calming Signals DVD or book. That might help with Zoey's overenthusiastic play. I would also ask Steve what he would recommend. What I would try for the leg biting is what I did with my cats when they would take grab my wrist or finger with their claws and then give the "love bites" as a cat like your Zoey can go fast from wanting affection to play - I let my hand go limp and just froze and turned away - big ignore. Since the "prey" was no longer playing - the cat would let you - then I would gently remove my wrist or finger - and then walk away. For the air snaps - I just wouldn't get in her face or allow her to get in mine. Stand up - turn your back. If I would pet Zoey - I would approach her from the side and stroke gently her side and chest - I wouldn't put my face next to her - I would always make sure I was above her and she would be sleeping on the floor on her bed.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary, I let my leg go limp a few times, she just bites down harder to be honest lol The air snap only happen when I say "kisses", she knows its just a lick but sometimes she just has to much energy. It's going to be hard to get Zoey off the bed, Zoey will do it fine, Maegan is the problem. Maegan always want's her on the bed and to snuggle with, and she's perfect with her. Maegan will even get Zoey riled up, play smack me and boom, Zoey takes her side and there's my leg in her mouth again. I honestly think the boss is my biggest problem since she see's it as fun and it makes her happy lol. Most of the time, Zoey enjoy's sleeping in her bed over my bed tbh, a lot cooler down there. I guess it's time to have a chat with the boss.......


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I am just concerned that Zoey will hurt you or someone else . Sure Maegan can goof around with her, but then it seems like she redirects on you. Since she bites down hard when you let your leg go limp, maybe the pillow trick would work - like when you pushed the pillow down on her. It seems drastic, but she did give up that time you did it . Only when you do it - don't make up to her. Ignore her for about a half hour and it would help if Maegan ignores her also so Zoey can't go to her for sympathy, then give a command - say come or sit - then praise her for doing that. She has to learn that her biting behavior isn't acceptable. Maegan doesn't see this side of Zoey but surely she doesn't want to risk you or anyone else getting hurt. What might help, is if you could discuss this with Steve - he has a family and knows how dogs like Zoey are. Maybe a family training session with just you, Maegan, and Zoey would help. What I wouldn't do is any of the "kissing" with her or any behavior that encourages her to snap. I would play lots of tug with her and after a good struggle let her win and be sure then to really praise her - that is an acceptable outlet for her prey drive. Also she will then associate you with fulfilling her prey drive and that will help her to look up to you.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary, I will go back to the pillow and ignore her when she jumps off the bed. It's easy for me but hard to get the ole ball and chain to follow the rules. Great idea to talk to Steve about this, I will try to tell him in detail what's going on and see what he has to say, he does do in home visits and he only lives a few minutes away from me! I'll be sure to report back after Thursday!

p.s. Just seen the part about tug, that's a great idea since it's been MISERABLE around here lately (freezing rain, slushy snow, torrential downpours) we haven't been getting the usual exercise and have been trying to figure out what to do with her! If only I looked in her bin lol


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes - tug has gotten me through many a blizzard with Sting. In home training visit with Steve - now that sounds great. Won't Zoey be surprised? Looking forward to the update. Good Luck!


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Update: 
Zoey did great at daycare, I was talking to Steve and he seemed overly excited about it. Further in the conversation, I find out why  Zoey was actually playing with the other dogs today!!! I think he was just as happy as I was!! He was saying how from the first day he had her, she is excelling extremely fast, faster than he expected and he feels like she'll be able to take the muzzle off soon. 

He was also talking about her obedience and how well and quickly she learns. I figured this since we work and practice this everyday, but nice to hear that she's good in other hands. 

We were walking out of the place and there was another dog that we were going to pass by, Zoey obviously got excited but I gave her a quick correction (she gets extremely excited when I first get there), looked up at me and we strolled on by, no issues. :wild: In the past, she would go bonkers, not necessarily being aggressive but needing to go to the other dog. 

The stress levels are going down tremendously, I think she's really starting to come around. The big test is how she'll do with everyone over the Holiday's. I have a lot of faith in her although I'll keep a close watch as well. Also figured I'd throw a couple of recent pictures of her that i finally got around to editing.

Happy Holidays!!!!

Snuggling with mom and dad



























This one came out pretty dark when I uploaded so it still needs some work. 










aaaaaand her and her momma! ... pillow in the background is torn since Zoey thought there was a dragon in there, crazy girl.:wild:













p.s......... We've been playing tug a TON since the weather has been crappy, and it's night and day with her energy level. She didn't really like it before but since I've been persuading her more, she can't get enough of it.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Lovely photos - especially the one of your 2 beautiful ladies. Wonderful Zoey did well at day care and is settling in with the other dogs. Yes - pillows and related items are irresistible. My Sting destroyed 2 cat beds but fortunately not the cat The holidays will be exciting and like kids, dogs can get hyper and overtired. You may want to give Zoey timeouts and quiet time in her crate with a favorite toy or chew bone. Hopefully the weather will break so she can go outside. My Sting likes to take a victory lap when he wins tug - then when he brings it to me, I give him a treat in exchange. Zoey has truly come a long way so with your care.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Zoey says Happy Holidays!!!!!









First we'll start with the family over for the Holidays. Zoey did fantastic, even with a 6 year old being a spaz. She's met everyone before that came over and was very sweet with everyone. My aunt loves dogs and she had Zoey lick her face for a good 5 minutes, my Grampy called her up on a couch (even though she knows not to) and she laid down and cuddled him with her head on his lap, and my uncle called her up and she petted her for a solid 15 minutes and she lick his face numerous times. Everything went great until she did her usual licking and then a teeth snap which made people go whoa. I love the fact that she showed her sweet side to everyone but I HATE HATE HATE when she does that she snaps her teeth, its not her being aggressive, its her licking your face, or going to lick your face and snap her teeth. I'm seriously considering an E-collar just for that. Thoughts?

Zoey did get a timeout because of my 6 year old cousin. I'll just say he's a bit of a spaz that doesn't listen and he brought his foam sword over. Even though I got Zoey used to foreign objects being waved over head, I still stressed out about him because he kept wanting to whack her with the foam sword. After telling him no a billion times, I put her in the mudroom with her bed because I didn't want to set her up to fail. After about 20 minutes, she came back in and he finally left her alone... phew.

Now onto k9-camp. When I walked in, I was immediately told to see one of the girls and ask for the video, hmm weird but ill bite. I walk over to her and she has Zoey on film............... playing with another dog!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO It was awesome to see this, Zoey's came a long way and to finally see some progression is awesome. It was a big male GSD and she would just get low, and bounce up and hop around him like a bunny rabbit, I've never seen that side of her but it was great. The leash was loose, she was relaxed just having fun like a dog should. I'll try to get them to send me the video to share.


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## skew12 (Aug 28, 2012)

Congrats on the progress! It should definitely make you feel a lot better about the future of Zoey!

I'm no trainer, but as far as the nipping while licking, try to find a way to let Zoey know that this brings us pain and is not an appropriate behavior. They don't quite understand that IMO. Dogs play differently than we do. I have a chocolate lab that went through this problem, and she was a BIG licker. Each time she would do it, I would stop the licking and tell her NO. If she persisted then I would roll her lip under her teeth and slightly apply pressure until she made the correlation between the nipping and the pain it caused. Much like getting a puppy to drop something they shouldn't have in their mouth. Just not too hard though. It took a week or two if I remember correctly.


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## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Do you have site or posting with lots of photos of Zoey? I'm really interested in what a GSD/Mal cross looks like. From the pix you posted here, she seems to have a more wedge shaped head, closer coat and maybe slightly smaller ears??? I'd really love to see more of her.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Zoey sure looks happy with all her presents. Wonderful she did well over the holidays. It seems to me with the licking then snap - it happens when she gets all wound up. I wouldn't use a shock collar or prong collar corrections for that as I doubt she would make the connection and may even relate it to the person she was licking. What I would do, is no licking and I would teach her to "shake hands" instead. Even then it would be just one shake. If you want to allow the licking, just let her give someone a quick lick - then right away that's enough - and have her sit by you and give her a chew toy to mouth. You could keep a squeaky toy in your pocket and use that especially if you make it squeak. It would be like redirecting her. When my Sting gets excited, he will go grab his bear and make it squeak.


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## tacticalseries (Dec 24, 2012)

Get a huge bone like the monster ones that are a few feet long or just a nice filled smoked bone she needs a replacement , and sounds like she likes things nearly her own size, when she bites on your leg say your "NO" command and redirect her toward the huge bone so she understands its ok to bite on something but has to know what is ok to bite on , that is not humans. Worked for me so I just figured I could share . Good luck


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the comments. I've been redirecting her with her new kong wubba and she seem's to be getting the hint. She's been mouthing ALOT less now that I've been spending more time with her and correcting her on her bad behavior immediately. 

Marnie- I find Zoey's look changes based on the expression on her face. It's crazy but at time's she looks 100% Mali, others 100% GSD and most time 50/50. You can find my flickr account here (which i've been using more often)
Flickr: NickyB21's Photostream

and some past photos here
luda42688's Library | Photobucket


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Update:

Zoey was unable to go to k9 camp on Thursday , simply because my alarm never went off at 5am and i had to rush out the door for work! No worries, we just got back from basic obedience class today and she did phenomenal. She hit all of her commands down perfectly which i figured would be the case, but the biggest thing Steve wanted me there was to practice with her around other dogs, this class had 8 others. He warned me that since it was basic, most people don't have 100% control of there dogs but for the most part, everyone was very nice and respectable around everyone else's dog. Steve recommended a few more classes just to practice her around other dogs, and then well go to the more advanced classes. Im thinking about continue the training, and do k9 camp every other week, or vise versa. Really havent decided yet.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Figured I'd add a recent picture of Zoey in the snow.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Lovely photo of Zoey. She is turning out to be an the A+ student Happy it went well for you and her in class. If you can, it might be better to continue the K9 camp as you've done and the also the classes. I know it seems like a lot, but at K9 camp she gets play time with other dogs and exercise. At class she needs to concentate on you and obey. It seems the two different activities work together to help her socialization.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary Beth, I do plan to continue with training her and have her in K9 camp. The only problem is that doing it twice a week will start to take its toll on my wallet when added to all my other bills. The good thing is that when she gets to the higher classes, they are actually cheaper 8 for $200 rather then 6 for $200, so 25 bucks per class rather then $35, doesn't seem like a lot but when added with her other costs such as her sensitive stomach blue buffalo, flea/tick meds etc etc etc... 

We did have a mis-hap Saturday night though  Let me know your thoughts, I have my own but I'll save them for after.

We had everyone over for dinner including my mothers fiance's family (his sister and his brother's family came over) I kept Zoey down stairs for most of the night since his brothers had small kids and although she's good around kids, I didn't want anything to happen since I couldn't supervise 100%. The situation happened after the kids left. Zoey came up and was completely fine with everyone, my mother, her fiance, his sister (We'll call her "The sister"), my best friend and his gf, my grampy and a few others. I was telling everybody about Zoey multiple times throughout the night about how she was and how far she's came, also including her air snaps when you want her to kiss your face. I said this at LEAST 15 times and some people just don't listen.
I turned my back to throw something away when i heard "ohhh Zoey up here come up" wait, what? I turn around to see Zoey up on "The sister's" chest licking her in the face, before I could say Zoey get down she air snapped her in the cheek. WTF you got to be F'kin kidding me. "The sister" didn't have a single mark on her face, nor a scratch but she kept saying "omg she just bite me in the face" "am I bleeding" "she just bite me" I'm going to go the bathroom to see how bad this is, ugh" 

Ok, I know Zoey was in the wrong but she was set up for failure, we've been trying to break her from this and she's been better, but she's not 100% I told this lady 100 times through out the night specifically about her doing that and she calls her up and ask's for it, and then freaks out when it happens? I'm trying to socialize Zoey around new people and strangers, and she's been doing fantastic! It's situations like this that make me feel when we take 1 step forward, we get pushed 10 steps back. 

About the "bite"- It was exactly how she does it to my gf and I when we ask for kisses, every single time she does indeed make teeth-to-skin contact, she doesn't press down and actually stops everything all together. I don't know if she freaked out about the contact or if it was the actual snap noise when she doesn't make contact with anything. 

Thoughts?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

That's a shame - and Zoey gets the blame instead of the human adult who should have known better. The Sister wasn't listening to you or thought she knew better, and nothing would happen. Unfortunately The Sister by her actions got the air bite. And The Sister is not going to admit that instead she will spread the story that Zoey tried to bite her face. This could have been much worse if The Sister were a child. So the way to prevent it from happening again because you have to protect Zoey is to be as careful with her around adults as you are around children. If I were you, I would start a "no kissing - no touching with Zoey " Rule (you could call it the NKNT Rule) with everyone (adults & children) who comes to visit you or when you go to visit. I would also keep Zoey by me - on her leash on heel and she can be on the down/stay or sit/stay. I would keep treats and her favorite toy in my pockets to reward her for her good behavior. I would explain that she is in training and this is part of her advanced obedience work. As you work on the heeling and as she sits whenever you stop that will look impressive. And I would use hand signals, that way you can talk with your guests at the same time. I would also limit the contact time - Zoey can greet the guests (sitting by your side) , but then she needs to have her crate time with a favorite chew toy. I would also be sure to exercise and play with Zoey before the guests arrive. I would also send some flowers to The Sister from Zoey with a note saying that she is very sorry and never meant to cause her distress.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary, that's exactly how I feel and I'm sure she'll be spreading the story around. That is a great idea and I'll be implementing that asap! The NKNT rule will be hard, Maegan LOVES when Zoey jumps up and kisses her, so does my mother and my brother, I admit I do too. It seems to only happen when we are standing up because when I call her up on my bed for a snuggle, she'll be nose to nose to me and only lick, never once air bit. From now on, she'll be on a leash when there's guests right by my side, her obedience is great so i have no worries and when she starts getting ancy, she has a bed in the mudroom with a couple of toys.


As a side note, my Grampy is her new best friend? From her first encounter, barking at the sight of him viciously, him being the perfect profile that triggered her aggression, even his voice, to now....It's just night and day! He'll even walk in the door unannounced, she'll get up and be just as excited to see him as she would after I got home from work lol


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

That's great she is doing so well with Grampy. It shows how much progress she has made. I know it is hard for Maegan as it was for The Sister to realize how wound up Zoey can get and then she either air bites or redirects against you. Would teaching Zoey tricks help? Like shake hands, roll over, speak, and so on. There are threads on that. At least that way Maegan could do other things with her and she could also show off for the guests.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Zoey does indeed know a lot of tricks and picks them up fairly quickly. She knows paw (shake hands) roll over, sit, down, pretty girl (she sits on her butt with her paws in the air) and a few others. We've been working on speak, she gets it but tries to air snap first lol. Running out of ideas but going to start doing some research on new ones.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

That's great - she has already learned some. It looks like the speak wouldn't work. But if she shakes hands without any air snapping and will do it with others, that may be a good trick to substitute for the kissing. If she likes to play fetch, there are soft type balls that can be used indoors. That way she has activities she can do with her guests that will show her at her best behavior and hopefully keep the guests on theirs


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

I tried to push speak a little bit and it back fired out me lol Now all zoey wants to do is yap yap yap, bark bark bark. WE'll nip that in the butt, no worries but I do need some help with something.

The car...... I've done a lot of work with her when it comes to her being in the car, she used to be extremely aggressive with any passer bys and especially dogs. Now she ignores anyone, of course unless they come to the car, and other dogs walking. So far so good. My biggest issue is when I leave the car she gets some serious anxiety. I have a pretty nice car with leather interior and when I left her once to run in the store real quick, all i could see is a ball of fur basically flyballing of my dash and back seat. I'd love to bring her everywhere with me and socialize her with the world! Even if it's just bringing her with me on a couple of errands, i still would much rather have her with me then home alone. I don't think a kong would be much help because she freaks out, I could just leave her there till she settles down but there goes my interior.

I'm going to start by just getting her used to being alone in the car and praising her when she's calm... start with 1 minute, 2 mins, 3 mins etc outside of the car, then maybe run inside for a second and make it longer. Any other tips or tricks?


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

My Husky who was wonderful in the car, except when I first got her, she wanted to be in the driver's seat. She was fine about staying in the backseat where I had it covered with towels when I was there - but left alone - she promptly climbed into the driver's seat - leaving all her husky fur and muddy paw prints for me to return sit on. So your idea of getting her used to it slowly for short periods of time sounds great. Be sure to leave the windows open a bit for air - in her seat area. What I did with my Husky, was to give her the down/stay command. I would leave the car and walk away, and go inside where I could see her - when she would promptly climb over - I would dash out and say "no - go down, now!" then I would go back inside - and when I saw she had settled - I would go back to the car and reward her - I was consistent, and she did learn about trying 6 times. Your other options that I can think of are : 1. to crate her - if the crate will fit 2. get a dog grate barrier that blocks access to the front seast 3. use a dog car harness - it attaches to the seat belt latch and keeps the dog in the back seat - I used one for my Aussie - who was terrible in the car - back and forth - and it did help settle him down.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary, I would love to put a crate in there, except I have a 4 door sedan and not only wouldn't it fit, it would damage my leather seats. My only concern with having her tethered to a seat, she would most likely hurt herself. I honestly don't mind if she's waiting for me in the drivers seat, as long as she's sitting or laying down and not tearing apart my car. Once we start taking her on errands with us, I'm going to bring Maegan and have her wait in the car with Zoey at first, so she can correct her if need be.

We have K9 camp scheduled for tomorrow and training on Saturday. Maegan will be coming with on Saturday so hopefully I can snap some decent pictures and maybe some video of Zoey in action!


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Update:

No video today, Zoey only played with a few dogs for a short time and mostly kept to herself just sniffing butts and just hanging out. She did however do something I'm very proud of. A fight broke out while she was being handled by one of the staff members (two different dogs, Zoey wasn't involved) and he rushed in to break it up as well as a few others. While this caused a lot of commotion among the other dogs, Zoey just sat and did nothing. I WILL have pictures and possibly some video on Saturday since Maegan will be joining me.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes, you have every right to be proud of Zoey! That is so wonderful - and what an achievement on her part. All the costs of training and camp is certainly money well spent. Looking forward to the video. Great that Maegan is going with you and Zoey on Saturday.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Today went great! I got some shots of Maegan and also some video. I will post the video once I upload it all but here are some pictures. Very proud of Zoey and Maegan, Maegan was scared to handle her at first so I took the lead for the first half of the morning. Once she seen how well behaved Zoey was, she took over. 

The personal protection class starts right after our obedience class, everyone in that class had an eye on Zoey the whole time  I got approached by a few people not only giving me pointers with Maegan and Zoey, but also asking if we were staying  i wanted to, and I almost did, but 80 bucks a week for training was enough. Steve was raving about Zoey to one of the guys there about how well she'd do in the protection class. Not yet, but I think it will be in our future.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Wow, Maegan did a great job handling Zoey -and Zoey behaved so well! All your hard work and expense is really paying off. Zoey is doing so well with the camp and the obedience lessons - I agree with you - I would hold off also on the protection lessons. She has settled down so well and as long as you continue tug with her - to give her that outlet - and since Maegan has reservations on the protection training (she certainly has a good point about it) - I would really hesitate also. The pictures really showed Zoey has got to be nearly if not all Malinois when you look at her next to the GSDs. And interesting I was reading on the Malinois rescue site that many Malinois end up in rescue because they really aren't suited to IPO and Schutzhund, instead Malinois (this reminded me what is often said of Dobes) are noted for their outstanding affection to their people, which Zoey has. I also often have wondered if her problems were due to to that type of training in the wrong hands. Lovely photos - thanks for posting.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks, I will get some video up once I figure out my Youtube account! Zoey's affection for us is crazy, and we've only had 9 months and that's including the time and trust we lost when we had to give her up, it would probably be even more if we never did that. I agree with her being all Mali, everyone either ask's if she's a Mali or what breed is that, everything about her to me screams Mali.

Our biggest problem with her now is her being alone with my brother and his friends, last night she strolled right in his room with his friends and hopped on the bed, they were petting her when one of them started to pet her neck, and she started barking and going off. This has happened before but it must be something about her neck that sets her off around other people. I tell the kid 1000 times how to handle her and introduce her around his friends, but the kids just an idiot. She'll stay with me from now on and just need to be managed around other people. I was really hoping this wouldn't be an issue but oh well.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

My guess is that she was pinched on her neck or by her jaw - the sensitive areas. So she doesn't know that your brother and his friends are only going to pet her not hurt her. Will she tolerate wearing a banadana around her neck? There are some real cute ones for dogs. Maybe when people see that, they won't pet her by the neck. Otherwise, I agree with you to be sure to keep Zoey with you.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Yes she actually likes wearing her bandanna. I'll try that as well, it could only help


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Video is up, should work. It's of Maegan handling her, yes she needs to relax her right arm but she was stressed since it was her first time. 

**Update for K9 camp**
Nothing new, just still socializing her with other dogs. Steve showed me another video of her playing with a few other dogs! He sent me the video on my phone but through sending it, the quality was drastically reduced so it wouldn't be worth posting. We'll be doing another training session this Saturday as well, her obedience is flawless, Steve just wants to get her ready around the other dogs with me handling her.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Maegan and Zoey did great together. A+ students! I see where Maegan had Zoey's complete attention, praised her and how happy Zoey looked when she was praised and yet Maegan knew when to insist and was able to get her in the proper sit position and then promptly praised and rewarded. What I am so impressed with is how fast and far Zoey has come. In class, she is calm with other dogs. Then at camp, she can enjoy playing with other dogs. Best of both worlds.


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## susanwrites (Jul 31, 2008)

I just read through your entire thread of your Zoey and her training. Thanks for posting it. I'm at the beginning of the training journey with my Zoey that I adopted last month. This thread reminds me to stick with it. Your Zoey is a beautiful girl.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Maegan and Zoey did great together. A+ students! I see where Maegan had Zoey's complete attention, praised her and how happy Zoey looked when she was praised and yet Maegan knew when to insist and was able to get her in the proper sit position and then promptly praised and rewarded. What I am so impressed with is how fast and far Zoey has come. In class, she is calm with other dogs. Then at camp, she can enjoy playing with other dogs. Best of both worlds.


Thanks Mary, I appreciate your responses throughout this whole thread, you made some key points that I'll share with Maegan to further her confidence in handling Zoey! The stress levels have gone down dramatically, I can finally breathe easy. I don't mention but on leash during our walks, we've encountered a few off leash dogs, some barking behind her fence, charging on leash etc etc and she has been progressing beautifully. My stress is now on my money situation, I'll be switching her off the Blue Buffalo sensitive stomach and putting her on Kirkland for the time being. She had hook worm so I put her on this food, cleared it up and just kept her on it but $60 for a 24lb bag is starting to burn a hole in my pocket when added with training. I will go back to normal BB once the training settles down though.



susanwrites said:


> I just read through your entire thread of your Zoey and her training. Thanks for posting it. I'm at the beginning of the training journey with my Zoey that I adopted last month. This thread reminds me to stick with it. Your Zoey is a beautiful girl.


Thanks for reading! WGSD's melt my heart, my last dog was a WGSD Princess and your dog is just beautiful, thanks for adopting also! The biggest thing I've learned is to stick with it. It's a constant battle but even though I've learned a ton so far, I still have a long ways to go.


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## Stroid (Nov 12, 2012)

Great posts Nickyb your Zoey looks so much like my boy Jake, also a Mali/GSD mix rescue. Your posts encourage me in my training. Good luck..here is my boy Jake


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Stroid for reading my thread and glad I could encourage you, your boy Jake looks ALOT like Zoey, maybe long lost siblings! HAH

Quick update:

Zoey did great last Saturday at training, Maegan handled her most of the day and Zoey did fairly well considering I left and watched somewhere where she couldn't see me. She had some anxiety and was constantly looking for me, even though she's attached to her mom  All and all a good day. K9 camp went great yesterday, Steve had her in the intermediate training class that they do on Thursday morning and although she did great, Steve thinks she could use another beginner class solely because of her dog issues and not obedience. 

We've stepped up our obedience/tricks at home also due to the freezing weather here, we can only play for so long in 0 degree weather! The biggest improvement is her focus, some major improvement in locking eyes with distractions around. Once it warms up, I'll take her to a mall parking lot to further our work.


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## Moshamoon (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello Nickyb,

I also just read your entire thread. I have a 2 year old gsd, and she used to "beat me up" when she was younger (mouthing, jumping, etc), and have seen slow but consistant improvement. I did have her since she was a pup, but your thread inspires me that there is hope as long as you keep on it. Love your details, and subsequent updates/improvements. Good luck with Zoey (I almost named my pup Zoey, and Mika's father was an all white gsd like your Princess).

Sarah from the Vineyard, MA


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Hey Moshamoon, thanks for reading! There is definitely hope, some dogs just take more time. Princess learned everything so fast she was basically human where as Zoey is a slower paced experience, but then again, I had a lot more time to train Princess when she was a puppy. Zoey's a good name too 


Update:

I'm very proud of Zoey and how she handled herself this weekend. Zoey and I were walking our normal route yesterday which we go through everyday that passes through a schoolyard. Were walking and we see these two jack russels chasing a ball around a corner off leash.. oh great so Zoey and I walk away in a different route then normal.... low and behold yap yap yap yap yap yap right behind us so I turn around and they are right there on both sides of us growling and snapping. At this point Zoey is in a sit showing no signs of aggression. That's when one of the dog goes for zoeys leg, I counter it with a light kick to the body... then the other one decides to growl and try and strike, that's when i kick it in the face/chest a little harder then the other one. That was enough for their owner to rile them up but WTF this is the second time the SAME STUPID JR's were off leash and tried to attack my dog, luckily for them, it was the owners son handling them so I didn't flip out on him... some people are just stupid.

Training went great on Saturday, I really tested her by getting closer to other dogs, having her lay down closer to them and etc.. She did great but there was a DR GSD in the class as well that we got a bit to close for his liking, he started to act up and Zoey did a bit for the most part but a quick correction and a step forward and back to a down, she was fine. He did this again to her in which case I simply called her name and she didn't even flinch.  

I stayed after class since the protection class is right after obedience..... I just wanted to watch, or so I thought  A few dogs go out and hit the sleeve while I'm talking to everyone and since it was free for the first time, I decided to give Zoey a shot at it. All we did was work with the bite pillow since it was her first time and the first time Steve swung it around Zoey just looked... next time SHE TURNED ON! The drive this dog has is a bit ridiculous and I felt like shes done it before. I don't think well continue with it just yet as I want to work her obedience and manners but I would LOVE to harness that energy and drive she has for some type of bite sport. 
Were also picking up a treadmill for her to drain out more of that energy she has


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Another quick update, finally ordered Zoey a decent muzzle https://www.bridgeportequipment.com/ProductDetail.aspx?productId=93
so we can do ALOT more socializing out of k9 camp rather then that being the only source. She did great again yesterday, apparently she gets along great with a very annoying GSD there. He was laying down for a couple minutes when she ran up and pounced on him which turned into nothing but play. Her prey drive still fires up when another dog runs by her but were working on that. Also measuring her for a X-harness so when spring hits, we can take out the long board and have her pull me


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Great Zoey is getting a social life outside of K9 camp. And the muzzle for now is a wise precaution. I don't know about the pulling the long board - Zoey may have ideas of her own. When I had my Husky, I got a harness for her and a sled. She loved pulling it when it was empty, but sat right down and refused to move when there was someone on it


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Nickyb said:


> Hey Moshamoon, thanks for reading! There is definitely hope, some dogs just take more time. Princess learned everything so fast she was basically human where as Zoey is a slower paced experience, but then again, I had a lot more time to train Princess when she was a puppy. Zoey's a good name too
> 
> 
> Update:
> ...


You mean that your dog just sat there while *you* were fighting off the attacking JRT's? Wow! That sounds like great control!

What do you think your dog would have done if you missed with your kick and a JRT (ortwo) latched onto your leg (could happen with a hyped up JRT!)? Would the dg have sat there while the dog was hanging onto your leg (or arm)?

I just don't think tht my guy would have sat around while another dog was that serious in their attack (and so close and also threatening me!).


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Great Zoey is getting a social life outside of K9 camp. And the muzzle for now is a wise precaution. I don't know about the pulling the long board - Zoey may have ideas of her own. When I had my Husky, I got a harness for her and a sled. She loved pulling it when it was empty, but sat right down and refused to move when there was someone on it


Well we have a flat school right down the street from my house which would be perfect for learning. I'm still debating whether I should get a mountain board instead since it has brakes!!!!! It will be a learning experience for both of us but I think it will be fun.



codmaster said:


> You mean that your dog just sat there while *you* were fighting off the attacking JRT's? Wow! That sounds like great control!
> 
> What do you think your dog would have done if you missed with your kick and a JRT (ortwo) latched onto your leg (could happen with a hyped up JRT!)? Would the dg have sat there while the dog was hanging onto your leg (or arm)?
> 
> I just don't think tht my guy would have sat around while another dog was that serious in their attack (and so close and also threatening me!).



Yes, I told her to sit and to leave it which she did. She didn't want to by any means though, when they swarmed us, her eyes were wide open, shaking and doing the typical Malinois teeth chatter. If I hadn't told her to sit and leave it, she would've bit and shook em because 1)they were viciously barking and running up on us and 2) it's the second time and boy did she remember them. 

I kicked the first one when he lunged for Zoey's leg, if i had missed, he probably would've got Zoey and she would've attacked. She is VERRRYYY protective no matter what size the dog is if another dog is threatening us. I did have some tension on the leash so I can't say she was 100% in my control, but she was obedient and trusted me to handle it. 

I hate the fact that it was a JRT since Maegan has a JRT and I want them to get along, this only sets us back. I honestly wouldn't mind if Zoey went after them, I like the protective traits in her but I also want her to realize what is a threat and what isn't, not just all dogs.

I've been going back and forth trying to think if I made the right choices then, a part of me says of course, she didn't attack them but another part of me says, Nick... it's the second time it's happened with the same pair of dogs, Zoey was on leash while they were running loose... maybe have her not attack but a fierce reaction would suffice as well, scare the living daylights out of the owner so he'll think again about having his 2 JRT's off leash.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

"Discretion is the better part of valor" so you acted accordingly - if you let Zoey settle it it will put her back because she will think you can't control 2 little dogs and that will make her unsure and anxious also Zoey due to her bigger size could very well kill or injure those dogs, which will then make Zoey the guilty party and potential liabilility issues for you. What I do is to first turn and shout at the approaching dogs : NO - STOP - GO BACK . Then I turn Sting fast on heel and got out of there and not look back - no contact. I have found it works with both big and little dogs . The loose dogs think at first - what fun another dog, but when the human turns and shouts - they are surprised and stop and that gives me the time to turn and to do the big ignore, the dogs might follow for a bit but the game is over - who wants to follow someone's back.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks, I feel as if I did but a part of me just wants to teach the owner a lesson. We have a very strict leash law here in MA, simply put, if yours dogs off leash no matter what the circumstances are, you are liable for it. Unfortunately we didn't see them coming up until they were at our heels, but i will be shouting in the future for a frontal approach.

I'm getting pretty excited for the spring/summer, there's a lake with a 3 mile walk around which attracts a TON of dogs which ALL are on leash since its next to a busy road. I think this will help tremendously since we can literally sit there all day long and just correct her on her re-activity. This will also save me some $$ for training since it's seriously starting to put a toll on me.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Congrats on not giving into that urge to teach the dogs a lesson. It would be winning the battle and losing the war. No matter how strict the leash laws he could lie and say his dogs were attacked by Zoey while they were adjusting the collar or whatever. I know it happened to me - though my Sting and the other lady's dog were off leash. She let her dog off the leash to come directly at mine, then reported it and said my dog had attacked hers while she was adjusting the harness. Fortunately, the sheriff believed me. 
I think it is great you are giving Zoey real life practice. My Dobe, who had a CD in obedience - her breeder had done all that before I got her. Well, she was fine with other dogs, but pulling - she was worse than my Husky ever was. It was like she was trained to do it in the ring but not outside of it. The class training is only preparation for real life. And you are giving her the much need real life practice.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Not sure what to say on this but I think the problem lies with Zoey being overly protective around me. We got back from K-9 camp today and Steve said Zoey did good, she was a little feisty today but good overall. We comeback I feed her and go to the gym. While I'm there, my older brother comes over and visits my mother and she was perfectly fine. His friend comes and picks him up, walks right in the door, Zoey is fine and does nothing. Now.... I come home and they are leaving, Zoey usually stays in the mudroom so this is were we are. They keep going on about how good she was, thats when Zoey jumps up on my brothers friend and I immediately correct her with an OFF! This is when she went around and tried to BITE HIM IN THE ASS!!!! This happened about 5 minutes ago so everything might not make sense as I haven't proof read this lol. It wasn't a vicious snarling attack bite, she just went around him and went for a cheek. Thoughts????? I don't get it.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

This has been the first incident in quite a while. Steve did notice she was a little feisty a camp today. It might not be the cause, but she did have a free protective training lesson - last week or so if I recall. And she was hesitant at first then got into it. It could be that triggered her overdrive . I still think she had that type of training that went wrong for her in the past and caused her overdrive and overprotectiveness. Or Zoey could just have been overtired and the end of her good behavior. She is doing remarkably well, considering how many different people she is interacting with. Perhaps, next time, when you come home, keep Zoey by your side on the sit/stay and hold her collar while the others leave.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Well I was petting her since i just walked through the door, and had her by the collar, they then said how good she was so I let go and this was the outcome. She didn't actually bite him but she was about 95% there. Time for more socialization i guess. I do think the prot class had something to do with it since when you hold a dog back at what it wants, it aggravates them thus causing this.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

That explains it. And yes, I agree with you about the prot class. You held her back, then released her, that for Zoey became the okay to attack. Since she was doing so well, I think it would be better to stay with the obedience classes - at least finish this session but then continue to do the real life practice like you have been doing. For bitework, I would only do tug with her and and let her win. I would not do any decoy work or sleeve work because it winds her up and that triggers her to overreact at home.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Update:
Zoey did great at K9 camp, much better then last week. Main reason why I'm writing is because she went after my brothers friend again (same one she always goes after). She got him pretty decent in the arm (no blood) but WTF, growing old of this reoccurring problem. I'll have a chat with Steve but of course this happened when I wasn't home. I brought her to my brothers room with him and the victim were, gave him a bunch of pieces of steak and just had him feed her while on leash. I'm at the point where I'm just going to bring over ALL of my brothers friends, put her in her muzzle and see how she does.

She's fine with some guys and hates others, but loves all females. She's gone after a couple of his friends and although he doesn't know the proper way to introduce her to them, she still shouldn't be attacking them. Thoughts
I honestly don't care if she ever progresses further with her dog socialization, I'm happy with where we are at, but I can't have this male aggression.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I can understand your frustration and yes, that is best to talk it over with Steve. My thoughts are that Zoey has come a long way but due to her past history will need to be carefully managed around men. I don't think putting a muzzle on her and having all your brothers friends over will help - I really think it will backfire and make her more aggressive. I think she is reacting out of fear and though your brother and his friends mean well, their harmless actions are being perceived by Zoey to be a threat. It can be their body language, goofing around, whatever. It is best if Zoey is not left alone with them.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

The thing that really makes me frustrated is that she does this right when they walk through the door. She likes a lot of my guy friends, but there's a certain few that she'll just snap on. There's no warning, they'll walk in and boom. I'm going to see what Steve says, but I'm sure he'll have to come over and see it first hand which will be even more money....


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Maybe not - why not take a video of it first?


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Maybe not - why not take a video of it first?


Mary, I'm glad you said that. I will capture a video of her in her element, with and without correcting her. Before I do this I just want to say, Anthony did this in the aggression subforum and got bombarded with useless comments that eventually caused him to leave this forum. I hope those "professionals" stay over there or if they choose to view this, then READ THIS COMMENT FIRST that I am allowing it for the sake of further viewing and help. I'll see if my brother will bring his buddy over tonight and I can film some.

Hmmmm maybe I should just show Steve and you the video instead haha I'll send you a link via PM when I work one up. Thanks!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I understand. I really had meant it just for Steve. I wanted to save you the cost of a private visit and I could see Zoey with Steve there behaving perfectly. If you want to pm me - that's fine too. Good luck with your filming.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Quick update.

Nothing really has been accomplished, with the past snow storms, it's hard to get all that pent up energy released. We've only done k-9 and haven't been back for the obedience yet. I've been super busy over the weekend so I just don't have the time but we still train basic obedience at the house.

My brothers friend hasn't been over and she hasn't gone after anybody, but that's because we've kept her afar from new comers. I just really don't trust her with anybody now.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Winter is really tough on training and dogs like kids are affected by the storms - they get "cabin fever" fast - probably why Zoey acted up - you're doing all you can -and I would be careful also with any visitors. You may want to end her in house obedience session with a game of tug as a reward.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm also seriously thinking about an e-collar. She like's to put our arms/legs in her mouth and bite down pretty hard, play bites are over excessive and she wont stop unless you smack her with a pillow or kick her out the room for a time out... let her back in and she's back at it, also the airbite's/air snaps aren't getting any better. Not being able to drain her energy, i feel like she does this more often because of that. I've tried every method I could find with no results, she's just a big puppy stuck in her ways.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

The e-collar could backfire in that it could either get Zoey more charged up or into fear/aggression issues if she identified the shock with coming from you. I have used an e-collar mainly for off leash work and to train my dog from running deer. I wouldn't use it for this type of situtation. What you may want to try is the pennies in a can - it is an older method, but may work. Put pennies in an empty pop can - tape over the hole. When she bites - shake the can. Also you could try a squirt bottle or a water pistol with lemon juice or vinegar mixed in water. Same idea - only squirt her mouth. I haven't used either of these, but they may be worth trying. From what I understand about malinois, the air bites are common - done when the dog is excited.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Air bites are very common in Malinois, and I don't mind it. The thing that I mind is when she's very passionate and want's to give you kisses, she lick your face and then SNAP right at your face. She rarely makes contact and if she does, it's nothing like a bite but still, I don't like it. Her play biting is the biggest thing, she was making great improvements on it before all the snow hit. Now I'll get a nice CHOMP on my thigh with her looking at me in a playful way like "Oh, what cha gunna do?" n then fly around the room 37 times jump up and latch on again. 

To be honest it's really funny now that I think of it but it's not acceptable. I'll try the penny's in a can method tonight. It's tough because I can't always have it in my pocket like an e-collar remote but i'll give it a shotl.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

I can understand that but she will also need to wear the e-collar and it has to be charged - so there are drawbacks to both. You could try with your voice alone. Say sharply when she acts up: No, Sit, Now! and if she doesn't, just gives you that look, grab her by the collar and force into the sit/stay - then praise and release. If she repeats her act, do the same again. If you have an e- collar and have used it, that is where you could use it because you would be using it to have respond to the sit command. You may want to pm Lou Castle because he is the expert on the e-collar training.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Full update as of 3/15/13:

Zoey has been doing good but there hasn't been any progression with K9 camp. She'll tolerate some dogs/ play with others/ and hate others. Small dogs that run by her, forget about it. I overheard that graduating from K9-camp basically means they can keep her out in Doggie daycare with no leash. IMHO $40 a week is a waste since she hasn't gotten any better or any worse, the same response I get each week is "She was awesome today, crazy girl but awesome."

Walking her around other dogs- She does awesome walking WITH another dog along side of her, always have. I walked her alongside a very dog-aggressive female GSD and she was fantastic as well alongside many other dogs. 

Walking- No problems with our walk unless we pass by a BARKING dog. If she can see the dog barking either behind the fence or on the street, she gets extremely riled up and is hard to control. Example- about a 5-10 lbs lap dog was on leash yapping at Zoey as we were passing, which got Zoey extremely riled up and vocal (not a bark, hard to explain). I got her in a down and I moved two inches, she army crawled 2 feet, move another inch and there's the army crawl again, she's nuts! If the dog is behind the fence or in the house, she is perfectly fine. She might get a little excited but a quick correction and shes fine. 
I'm not entirely concerned with this since spring is around the corner and I'll be doing lots of hiking/running in high dog concentrated areas.

Car rides- Horrible. If she see's a dog, she gets EXTREMELY aggressive, more then any other time. Very hard to control since I'm driving and a crate is out of the question. She jumps from front seat to back seat constantly and I plan on picking up a champion harness and strap her in. The aggression, I'm not so sure about. 

People in home- She's been doing pretty good in the house but we haven't had to many strangers besides my little brother and his friends. He's been bringing his friends in with no issues, the only issue is with his friend Tyler that she just hates, I don't know why either. This weekend is going to be either a HUGE stepping stone or a bust. My mother is getting married so a lot of people will be over the house this weekend, my step sisters flew up from NC although she has met them in the past, she's been good with them. My other step sister will be coming tonight and her boyfriend tomorrow which she's met and has been good with. Also my mother is having a bunch of her girlfriends over tonight which she's met some, so hopefully everything goes smoothly.
I'm praying she stays calm but I will have her on a leash and the slightest bit of aggression she's getting corrected and crated. I will do my best to introduce with treats outside of the house on leash but with the cold weather, some might get a little aggravated.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Your new avator photo of Zoey is really eye-catching. Thanks for the update and good luck this weekend - you seem to have a good game plan. Or you could relax and board her out with Steve this weekend - especially with the weather. For the car rides - well, my Aussie was terrible - his previous owner had let him and her other dogs in the cargo area of her SUV just bark and carry on - she had a grate and the noise didn't bother her. So I understand what you are going thru- the harness will contain her - I got the one that used the seat belt latch from Foster & Smith and my Aussie was 85 lbs. But the barking - well, my Aussie was the same way, and I tried everything - stopping the car, correcting him, so that is where I did use the e-collar (his previous owner had used it and she had told me he had a great respect for electricity) - it just took one time - he started his act - I said "quiet" - he blew it off - I pressed the remote - peaceful silence. You had mentioned before that Zoey's foster parents had used the e-collar, you may want to ask them how they trained her. Or you could try the head halter, it is supposed to have a calming affect. She still would have to wear the harness for the car seat restrainer. For the other dogs, well, my Sting would have flunked out also - he would end up being the oldest dog in K9 camp. I guess there comes to a point where one has to cut losses - know what the dog can do (walk side by side) and accept what the dog can't do - like little dogs coming straight at them, and being loose around all sorts of dogs.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Mary, I've been stressing out on what to do with her as you can see and it really helps getting a neutral perspective from someone, and for that I really appreciate it. 

As of right now, I REALLY want to get her to a point where not all my brothers friends/my friends/anyone who walks through the door are scared of her. In the beginning, I always said how if she didn't like other dogs, it really isn't a big deal to me, but I never agreed to any other aggression. The biggest thing that scares everyone is the look she gives you, she basically looks through your soul, I'll try to take a picture of it lol. She's SUCH a sweet dog when she's around people she likes, it's just the outbursts were so unexpected and unreadable. Once it gets a bit warmer, she'll be coming with me everywhere I go for socialization with humans and everything else, I'll just need to think of a way to leave her unattended in the car without tearing up my leather 

As for the seat belt, I've been looking at this and a few people on here recommended it
Champion Canine Seat Belt System
Probably will pick that up soon.

The foster used both, head halter and an E collar. Zoey HATED the head halter but responded nicely to the E-collar which is why I recommended it, I just don't want to use it at the wrong time. I'll write her an email after this.

I'm going to have a chat with Steve this coming Thursday, I've spent over $700 on her training in 5 months with little results, and I'm beginning to think I'm being played. I don't know exactly what they do with her, how long they have her out with other dogs or anything. If she's playing with dogs getting worn out all day long, its worth it. But if shes out there for a total of 2 hours and the rest in a kennel, it's not worth it IMO. They are all very nice at the kennel, LOVE LOVE LOVE Zoey and I like them all, but I can't be throwing money out the window neither.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

After writing that, I just bought the champion seat belt system.... Hopefully that will contain her enough where shes not trying to sit on my lap or put her butt on my shoulder


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

It will work - it looks just like the kind I used on my aussie. At first - he lunged and but still held and your Zoey isn't that big. After a while, he didn't even need it on. You may want to put an old rug or thick blanket on the seat and even the seat back, or there are dog cover seats that can be bought that will fit your car. Yes, I agree with you that is a lot of money and it is time to have a serious talk with Steve. He has done wonders with her, but no trainer is a miracle worker and there are some traits that cannot be changed. Zoey is a mali, and honestly, my Sting wouldn't be welcoming to anyone who comes in the door, even if he knows them. And a lot of people are afraid of him, that is natural, when I walked my dobe, people used to cross the street. It is possible that the people that Zoey has a bad reaction to, are afraid of malis and gsds, they can hide the fear from us humans, but a dog will pick up on it and that makes her insecure and fearful.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Well the wedding is done and the house has settled. Everyone has left and I couldn't be happier with Zoey. She did not display an ounce of aggression or even a bark. My step sister had some friends over and when I came home, they had Zoey upstairs in the living room and she was just hanging out like she knew them forever. She was lovey-dovey with everyone that came over including my step sisters boyfriend, even gave him a goodbye lick lol Zoey was the sweetest dog this weekend and acted a lot like my Princess did, extremely calm and compassionate towards everyone.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

That is wonderful! Your hard work has been rewarded. The Princess in Zoey is coming out at last!


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Hopefully this will continue, I first started her off on leash and noticed she wasn't focusing on anyone, really just me when she was around everyone. Once I seen her calm, I let her off leash and it helped a ton that everyone that came over loved dogs and listened to my rules with her. Just wanted to share a picture from the weekend, Zoey just wanted her hair done, that's all


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Such a sweet photo! Congrats to you - you had your game plan all thought out ahead of time and all the players cooperated. Yes - I agree - it takes teamwork -you and Zoey can't do it all alone if the guests won't follow your rules.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Just chiming back in, haven't updated in a while so here we go.

Took Zoey to the vet shortly after my last update with bad news which can be found here.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/247082-routine-vet-visit-gone-bad.html
She was diagnosed with Ehrlichiosis and is on Doxy until the end of the month. She hasn't shown any side effects but we have been taking it easy.

Yesterday, we went on a 3 mile walk around the lake which I talked about earlier that has TONS of people and dogs. She didn't growl once, even when there was a little yappy dog right in her face on a long leash yapping away. Very proud of her for that, although she was so excited or anxious that she was pulling quite a bit, add the new smells and the waves crashing against the shore, she had a lot to take in. I didn't take my camera with me but Maegan snapped a picture of Zoey sitting on a picnic table and I checking out a goose that wouldn't stop quacking lol She was very confused and gave it a couple of classic head tilts 









I'll be dropping her off Thursday @ K9 camp since she hasn't been in over two weeks, I'll have a talk with Steve as well as long as he is there. I don't plan on doing the obedience classes with her since 1) he's keeping us in beginner's when she is the best dog in there (even around the other dogs) and 2) I understand working her around other dogs but I can do that at home for free.

I also bought her this, Champion Canine Seat Belt System , a seat belt harness that keeps her confined  She tolerates it but still, when she see's another dog, she get's super aggressive while in the car. I talked to Steve about this and he said it's a typical shepherd/mali thing, and to crate her if possible.

Where getting there... it's slow, but it's progress.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Wonderful news! Zoey really did great on her first lake path walk. The next time you take her there, she won't be so excited and pull so much. The real life practice she is getting is so much better than just keeping her in classes. I agree with you and also she would probably get bored doing the same class. Glad the car harness is working out. I am sorry about her tick disease and I can imagine that you were pretty stressed but you did catch it in time by taking her in for her regular checkups. It could have been so much worse and costly otherwise. Maegan took a lovely photo of you and Zoey.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Nick,
Glad Zoey is feeling better. Keep up the great work.

Just want to comment on the "car aggression".

Kira used to do this. I couldn't pass another dog without her getting all puffed up, growling, and biting the window.

I can't stress how valuable the "leave it" command is.
What I did was set her up in a position to see a passing dog. This could be as simple as sitting near a park, where the there's a good chance a dog will walk by.

As each dog passed, I gave her a firm "leave it", distracted, and praise.
She eventually got the idea, and now just watches as they pass.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Wonderful news! Zoey really did great on her first lake path walk. The next time you take her there, she won't be so excited and pull so much. The real life practice she is getting is so much better than just keeping her in classes. I agree with you and also she would probably get bored doing the same class. Glad the car harness is working out. I am sorry about her tick disease and I can imagine that you were pretty stressed but you did catch it in time by taking her in for her regular checkups. It could have been so much worse and costly otherwise. Maegan took a lovely photo of you and Zoey.


Thank you, I'm really proud of Zoey now. I'll be working her around other dogs more often, very excited!



Anthony8858 said:


> Nick,
> Glad Zoey is feeling better. Keep up the great work.
> 
> Just want to comment on the "car aggression".
> ...


Thanks Anthony, I find that sometimes we will drive by a dog, and she'll be fine. She'll look at it and not a peep comes out. Other times, usually when we are parked, she wants to jump out of the car and tear its head off. We do incorporate the "leave it" command quite often, just when its in the car, it goes right out the window lol

Good idea btw! I think we will sit in the back seat at the lake and just watch everyone pass by. I'll bring some treats as well to take off the initial edge  She's such a hard headed dog, when it comes to try and snap her out of it, it can be a bit of a challenge. 

I forgot to mention that my neighbor with his 2 male intact Mali's invited us to walk with him and train on weekend's. Should be awesome for Zoey to walk side by side other dogs and get her used to odd objects like his wheelchair (He has MS and is bound to a electric scooter, all while training 2 Belgian Mali's lol). Plus it would make for a great photo 

Thanks!


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Nickyb said:


> Thank you, I'm really proud of Zoey now. I'll be working her around other dogs more often, very excited!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, and for the reasons highlighted above, I parked near a park. While driving, she didn't have a chance to "ramp up". If stopped at a light, or parked, she was "on guard" for a passing dog or cat.

So..... I parked and waited. When the opportunity presented itself, I stopped her BEFORE she made the first motion. As soon as got that "HUH!" -look, I poked her, and gave her a "leave it". I then made her watch me, and treated her.
Now, if another dog passes, she turns her head away.

*** Nick, Of course this may not be the proper way of correcting this, but it worked for me.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Well Zoey and I went on hikes both Saturday and Sunday with a few of my friends and Nikita, the bluenose pitbull. Decent weather and pleased with how she did overall. 

Saturday, we went to "Lynn Woods" which is infamous for mountain bikers, one of the best courses in New England. A lot of dogs were out but I was surprised at the amount of off leash dogs there were. I'd say at least 50% of the dogs were off leash and among those, 50% weren't the friendliest and even growled and came storming at us. Zoey did excellent, she obviously perked up but I put her in a sit and moved in front of her ready for anything. A lot of the friendly off leashed dogs ran right up to us, one even licked Zoey in the nose.

Sunday, we went to "Break-heart Reservation". Tons of dogs and almost all dogs were on leash which was a delight, Zoey didn't make any sort of aggressive movement at all! There were a couple off leash but they ran up to Zoey, sniffed her butt and then walked along side of us like we were all best friends haha. I was able to snap some pictures but it's pretty tough getting my camera out of my bag with Zoey on leash and try to snap a couple of pics but here they are!

The girls walking side by side, they pretty much walked an inch apart of eachother both days, side by side 









Me and Zoey









again









Us on Sunday









again, wish my buddy got all of her in the photo


















Annnndd Nikita


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## zoey's mom (Apr 11, 2013)

Good job zoey! Shes really pretty.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Also forgot to mention, my buddy who came with me was the one I went up to Maine with a year ago and Zoey went after his father.

my friends holding both girls haha
they refuse to look at the camera.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

zoey's mom said:


> Good job zoey! Shes really pretty.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Thank you, I see you picked your girl a great name!!!!


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

This is even better than the lake walk! Wow, Zoey did great! Congrats!


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> This is even better than the lake walk! Wow, Zoey did great! Congrats!


Thank you! Also she's starting to get used to the seat belt harness, still get aggressive when seeing other dogs but I've been taking her in the car more often. Now when I go on errands, I can take her with, without her destroying my car lol


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Another quick update because I'm proud of my girl. 

We went on another couple of hikes this week/weekend. First hike was with just me, Maegan and Zoey. Whenever we pass another dog, I'll put her in a heel and she'll walk nicely next to me. I don't let her go up to other dogs and sniff because I don't know what will happen, and when I did it in the past, 50% of the time, the other dog snap, growled, barked and lunged at Zoey. With that being said, she did amazing, there was a couple of dogs that growled lunged barked upon passing, Zoey didn't react AT ALL, not a flinch, not a huff or a puff, nothing.... Such a good baby.

Then we went for a hike with Nikita the pitbull and owner, and Maegan brought Toby the "Jug". She gets along GREAT with Nikita now, when they first met, they actually got into a fight, but now they walk side by side the entire time. Zoey isn't a fan of smaller dogs, especially those that bark, so I wanted her to get used to them so I had Maegan bring her sisters dog, a Jug. (JRT and pug mix) He's very submissive and was actually scared of both Zoey and Nikita, but they both went for a quick sniff and hello, and walked away for our hike. Zoey would sniff him every now and then to say hello throughout the hike and didn't show an ounce of aggression. At the end of the day I let them mingle a bit longer then normal and he got down in a play bow and wanted to play lol I put a hold on that because Zoey is ROUGH, especially with playing so next time, I'll bring her muzzle just in case. 

Just wanted to share a quick update 

Also today is the last day of the doxy... praying her test comes back clean.


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Zoey is doing so great! This is wonderful to read. And my Sting is now hearing when he sees another dog and wants to leave all his training behind "If Zoey can do it, you can" - magic words  I would do the same as you - the walking side by side - that is the best but free play that can get out of hand in a hurry and with the size difference the little dog can get very easily hurt and the big dog gets the blame. Hope Zoey's test results come back all cleared up.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Zoey is doing so great! This is wonderful to read. And my Sting is now hearing when he sees another dog and wants to leave all his training behind "If Zoey can do it, you can" - magic words  I would do the same as you - the walking side by side - that is the best but free play that can get out of hand in a hurry and with the size difference the little dog can get very easily hurt and the big dog gets the blame. Hope Zoey's test results come back all cleared up.


hahaha oh Sting, your better then that! Thanks, fingers are crossed.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

So, figured I'd give an update since I haven't in a while, hopefully it will be one of my last.

Zoey has been doing excellent. Saturday, we went for a hike again with friends and their pitbull. At the end of our hike, we were at the front of the trail when my friend wanted to pet a bulldog puppy, which lead to her dog meeting it, and then Zoey wanting to meet it. Zoey tried to play with the puppy but I stopped it since she is rough. Then comes an identical pitbull, mastiff and a husky walking up to all of us wanting to meet, they were friendly so I said why not. Zoey exchanged greetings with all and I couldn't be happier, I wish I got a picture of it but it felt amazing, seeing Zoey interacting with 4-5 dogs without an ounce of aggression. 

Sunday, i was thrown a surprise B-day party from my family. Again, Zoey did amazing. My uncle and brother in law were over and she was fine with them, my cousin who was 7 and my niece and nephew (3 and 2) played with her all day. She does have a soft side, because watching her interact with the children, she was much more delicate then usual. My nephew was running around with goldfish and even though she wanted it and seen/smelt it, she didn't even think about trying to snag one 

I love this dog more and more everyday, and I'm glad I'm seeing a change for the good.:wub: With continued socialization, we should continue in this direction. 

Here are a couple of pictures from the hike with the fish eye lens. 

D7K_4955 by NickyB210, on Flickr


Hike with a fish eye by NickyB210, on Flickr

The whole walk, side by side.

Hike with a fish eye by NickyB210, on Flickr

And a staring contest with my buddy

Hike with a fish eye by NickyB210, on Flickr

Annnd some new collar love

New collar by NickyB210, on Flickr


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## Mary Beth (Apr 17, 2010)

Congratulations! A happy ending! How wonderful. All your hard work and love has brought out the "princess" in Zoey.


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## Nickyb (Jul 11, 2011)

Mary Beth said:


> Congratulations! A happy ending! How wonderful. All your hard work and love has brought out the "princess" in Zoey.


Thanks Mary, I appreciate you following this thread and every comment you had made a difference and kept me going. Zoey and I thank you!


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