# Another Canidae Rant...



## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

Well, I just got a new bag of Canidae. Both my dogs have been doing really well on Canidae - but this new bag is the new formula. 

Both dogs now have really loose stools and even though I have read the threads where people have related this same experience, I am not happy at ALL! How can a company change a food so much - without warning its customers - that it would cause digestive upset! 

Someone on a previous thread mentioned getting cans of Canidae that smelled "off". I did, too. I no longer trust this company, am very annoyed, and am open to suggestions for a new food. 

We are feeding a 1+ year old GSD/Pit mix and a five-month-old GSD puppy. Any recomendations?

Martie


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

did you mix food from the old bag and new bag gradually?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Good luck, I am beyond frustrated. Every morning I have started complementing firm poos and disappointed with the nasty ones, almost like it is the poor dogs' fault. 

My four year old is not doing well with the new formula at all. We have a solid poo maybe once a week with him. He gets no extras, only the dry dog food in hopes that he will come around. I am losing patience. 

Everyone else is doing fair on it. My girl Jenna is getting boney, so is Tori and Heidi. If I up the amount, the stools get loose again. But I cannot allow them to get boney. 

My other major concern is that I have finally completed the last of the old stuff and Babsy had her litter on Thursday. I have been giving her some of the new lamb and rice to ease her into the adjusted formula, but NOW is just not the time to be changing foods!!! 

To top it off, I sent my sixty 40# bag UPC symbols with copies of the receipts off to Canidae hoping for 12 new bag coupons. They gave me eight. Eight 35 # bags!!! So yeah, I am a little PO'd with the company. 

I did not get bad cans, because I do not feed it. I feed Evanger's organic chicken or the organic turkey meal, when I have a sick or lactating bitch. 

Once this litter is weaned and in their new homes, if my crew isn't back to normal, I am going to be seriously concidering new food too. I like Wellness Core, but it is expensive. I like Barking at the Moon too but that is expensive as well. Oh yeah, Canidae is expensive too now. 

Errghh!!! 

Ok, enough! I guess that is my way of saying I feel your pain. Good luck. One more thought -- changing two dogs is a pain, but finding something that ten dogs all do well on is no picnic.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ya know, if you are switching from lamb and rice to salmon and potato, I would expect that one would mix the food and switch gradually over five to seven days. 

If you generally go between chicken/rice, four meat source/rice and lamb and rice without mixing food gradually, one would think that you could go from Canidae lamb and rice to the new Canidae lamb and rice that has added way down the list of ingredients, barley, peas, mullet, and fresh lamb. Guess not. 

Also, you can screw around with one or two dogs food remembering to give them a cup of this and a half a cup of that, but when you are feeding a bunch of dogs, it is a little more irritating.


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## lar07 (Dec 10, 2007)

blue buffalo is a good choice for you and your dogs--good stuff! You can find it at Petsmart.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm feeding All Life Stages -not changing flavors- and am probably just as mad at myself for not anticipating the change and saving enough of the old food to switch gradually. I still think, however, that the company should have put something on the package saying it is a new formula and would be better to change their formula more gradually. Sue, I agree - can't imagine having this happen with 10 dogs and a litter on the way!


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

I feel really bad for you guy's that have been using Canidae for years. But this company has made a decision that profits are more important than producing the high quality food that the Canidae used to stand for. As you guy's can attest quality has been slipping for some time now.

But the decision to have Diamond Pet Foods now manufacture their food should be the last straw for you guy's. No matter what they say Canidae will now be a roll of the dice. How long will it be before Canidae will be involved in their first recall. Unfortunitly not long with Diamond now manufacturing their food.


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## BrennasMom (Mar 2, 2008)

I switched from ALS to Merrick Before Grain. Brenna is doing very well on it, nice small, solid turds. The only thing I have noticed is her coat isn't quite as nice/soft as it was on ALS but I am guessing that can be fixed with some salmon oil, or I might try the salmon BG. I didn't like that there are 3 or 4 grains/starches and figured it would be too much variety for her sensitive tummy.


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## willag (May 25, 2008)

I switched to Innova Adult (Dry) because it appears to be very close to Canidae's old formula. Hans is doing really well on it and I have noticed that he poops less. The Innova has 557 calories per cup so I feed a little less than I did with the Canidae which had 468.


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## sprzybyl (May 15, 2008)

I switched from ALS to Natural Balance (she stopped eating the Canidae for whatever reason so I switched). I'm still having soft stools, but they have gotten much smaller and MAN she has more energy on the NB! 

I wanted to try Innova but my local pet store didn't carry it, so we had to "settle" for the NB. I'm kind of annoyed because I recently found the Innova at another store just further down the street. Thats the last time I send my fiance out to look for something!


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: I_LOVE_MY_MIKKOdid you mix food from the old bag and new bag gradually?


I do not think this is an issue, I read all the Canidae posts and my conclusion is they either tolerate it or they don't. I did have old to mix with my new, it did not help one little bit. Soft mush from the start and got work till I quit feeding it. I am having a hard time finding a suitable replacement. 

Also, as stated, this was not a change in food. Why would a company feel the need to change a food so much you would even have to contemplate mixing old with new? The new bags were out on shelves before the info was released on the website! So, I really wish people would quit throwing this comment out about not mixing old with new. This is flat out a drastic change in formula that most dogs are not tolerating well.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Blue Buffalo makes some nice foods that you might consider as a replacement for Canidae. It's reasonably priced and they even have a grain free, Blue Buffalo Wilderness.

Merricks' Before Grain is another nice brand. Abby ate this once we moved down here and realized we'd have to drive about an hour to get anything close to the variety of raw she used to get. She did well on it, but had soft (not loose, but soft) stools. We recently changed to Taste of the Wild and her poops are better on that. The TOTW is a little cheaper than the Merrick's, too.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: bmass01
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: I_LOVE_MY_MIKKOdid you mix food from the old bag and new bag gradually?
> ...


I agree!! We shouldn't have to do a gradual changeover to a new formula of the same food. ...and if we did - why not say something - anything - on the bag!! It doesn't even say "New Formula". After a few days, my pup is not even wanting to eat it and both dogs continue with mushy, off-colored stool. Innova, here we come!

Martie


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## Heather (Mar 4, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: larrydee33... this company has made a decision that profits are more important than producing the high quality food that the Canidae used to stand for.


The price of rice went up over 250% in the past year. The older Canidae formulas contained a lot of rice... more rice than meat, I believe. Simply put, they had three options: raise the price so high that they would lose a lot of customers, change the formula and lose some customers, or keep charging the same price for the same formula and go out of business.

I think they are doing the best they can with current market situations and I wish them well. _(Edited to add: I do agree that the fast change with no warning was a bad decision on their part.)_

I don't feed it, BTW... I feed Orijen.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Heather
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: larrydee33... this company has made a decision that profits are more important than producing the high quality food that the Canidae used to stand for.
> ...


I can sure understand business pressures - am just bitterly disappointed that a food my dogs were doing SO well on is no longer available to them - and quite annoyed with the way this was handled.

I would love to feed Orijen and will - once my puppy is an adult - as I understand it is not good for growing puppies. For now, we will try Innova and hope it works!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Martie, 

If you really want to feed Orijen, they DO make a Large Breed Puppy formula that has less cal/phos than the "regular" formulas. (The high cal/phos levels are the reason most folks and some grain free makers say that the rain free kibbles aren't good for puppies.)


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDMartie,
> 
> If you really want to feed Orijen, they DO make a Large Breed Puppy formula that has less cal/phos than the "regular" formulas. (The high cal/phos levels are the reason most folks and some grain free makers say that the rain free kibbles aren't good for puppies.)


Thank you, Tracy. I will look into availability here!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

You're welcome.


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## shets114 (Dec 31, 2006)

Take a look at the VF Complete products from Arkat Nutrition, Human Grade Facility and they make all there food. No co packing.
http://www.arkat.com


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

After opening my first new bag of lamb and rice -- I had no warning, but the kibble looked so different that I looked at the bag and it did say something like, now with Fresh lamb, on the front. I did not look deeper until I had the loose stools and saw this on the net. 

I mean, feeding L&R, and offering lamb lung as treats without issue, who would think "fresh lamb" would cause a problem. After loose stools, noticing barley in there, I kind of went off the deep end. 

It is hard to switch though at this point. I may just switch Dubya.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I dont like the fact that they use by-products in their food. (this is in response to the website posted) Ava had problems with products that had beets in them as well. I had to give up on kibble, my girl has too many food related issues. I'm actually relieved that I dont spend as much time out here searching for a decent kibble anymore. I am just reading up on nutrition so I can provide it myself and not worry about any more recalls with dog food.

I do use Blue Buffalo for my cats, they have done very well on it.


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## gretasgifttome (Jul 26, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: selzerGood luck, I am beyond frustrated. Every morning I have started complementing firm poos and disappointed with the nasty ones, almost like it is the poor dogs' fault.


Sue and all,

I am so so frustrated also!! I have fed my dogs Canidae ALS for about 4 years. I do rescue and at the present time have 16 dogs at my house and four of them are gsd puppies about 14 weeks of age. I have recommended Canidae to everyone I know for years. The rescue just stopped feeding another brand and switched to Canidae based on my experience with the food and the company and then this change of formula. One of the adopters for one of the pups has already bought a 40# bag that I may very well have to buy from her since I recommended the food. 

It's just too drastic of a change and the reps are feeding everyone their sales pitch to persuade them to keep trying it. And sending out coupons. Also, Sue, I got a letter about the Frequent buyer program because I do that also and the letter states that even if the weights don't match up to the new bag sizes that we will get more rather than less for the bar codes we turn in. Guess that isn't true either. 

It's just so inconvenient!! And when my dog food dealer told me who was manufacturing Canidae (Diamond) I couldn't believe my ears. He actually told me that Solid Gold is manufactured there also and that Diamond is trying to corner the market on producing dog food for other companies. No matter what Canidae tells me about the new formula I am not going to be able to forget who makes it. 

Right now, I have two puppies getting adopted on Saturday (after spays are done) and I have struggled with soft poops for 3 weeks since they have been on the new ALS. At times I thought it might be getting better only to see it again. So, I stopped the Canidae and did boiled chicken and rice for 24 hours. Guess what... formed poo. I can't keep them on that forever so I decided two of the puppies would try Innova puppy and two would try Canidae Chicken and Rice. (I am still not wanting to give up Canidae. Not many other holistic companies offer a frequent buyer program and with as many dogs as I feed - its 9 - 16 generally I have to have a break somewhere). 

The first 24 hours they are back on kibble. The Innova group has stool that is soft and the Canidae Chicken and Rice group had stool that came out mostly formed. I'm following puppies around with a flashlight in the rain to see who does what. Yes it is frustrating when I used to count on Canidae ALS sitting well with all my dogs. 
Having said all that, all my adults eating the new formula are doing ok except one is a little soft but she is nervous anyway (Mandy). 

*I am glad the subject line of this topic has "Rant" in it because that is what I have just done.*


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

I'm disappointed too. After 7 or so years of happily feeding Wellness, I switched Morgan to Canidae because our puppy's breeder recommended it. I didn't want any competition with food, been there, not going again.

Morgan has not had any problems with the formula change, but she can eat anything, her favorite breakfast is a bowl of left over milk.

The puppy, I have to say is NOT doing well on the new formula. The first few days he was here, we were finishing a sack of old formula. Now it's loose poop 5/6 times a day. While he doesn't poop in the house anymore, he isn't 100% on where in the yard he's supposed to go. 

My kids forget they need to wear shoes and I'm going nuts with the shovel and hose. 

After reading all this, I think the next sack of food is going to be wellness puppy!


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## shets114 (Dec 31, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: BetsyI dont like the fact that they use by-products in their food. (this is in response to the website posted) Ava had problems with products that had beets in them as well. I had to give up on kibble, my girl has too many food related issues. I'm actually relieved that I dont spend as much time out here searching for a decent kibble anymore. I am just reading up on nutrition so I can provide it myself and not worry about any more recalls with dog food.
> 
> I do use Blue Buffalo for my cats, they have done very well on it.


If you are referring to Arkat.com they no longer use Chicken By Product in the formulas. The VF doesn't have it either. 
Enhance switched to Chicken Meal in March, the website is being updated at this time..


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification shets. It is really hard these days to keep up with changes in the formula for so many kibble manufacturers. I would think that they would have updated their website with the current information, do the new bags have the updated information? I would think that changing to a higher quality meat (meal vs. by-product) would be a positive the company would want to advertise immediately.


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## gretasgifttome (Jul 26, 2003)

I'd like to add that today I noticed Maxx's ears. Losing hair on them. He's never done that before. I'll take him to the vet for a scrape but I suspect it's the Canidae.

In my Food Trials here, Innova puppies have firm poop and so does Canidae Chicken and Rice puppies. Fecals were negative.<sigh> It's about time!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mom and Dad started Pippy and Cujo on the new chicken and rice formula a few days ago. Pippy is 14. He has smelled so bad that they have been leaving the poor guy in the back hallway. Also, the poos are terribly tarry and they are having trouble. 

I am at a loss. 

Frankly, I do not have time for this. I keep hoping that Dubya will straighten out. A couple of my other dogs have. But it is touch and go. Some days we are mushy, some days tarry, and some days formed. Errrghh!!!! 

They think that we are going to go after their grain free formula when it comes out, but I feel like going with Wellness Core if I am going that route.


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## IsisUnselke (Mar 30, 2008)

I just wanted to say that I feel so bad for all dogs (and people) that are going through this headache of a transition with Canidae's new formula.









I used to feed Canidae when it first came on the market, but not since. It's been many, many years...

I applaud everyone's loyalty and perserverence! However, I don't think it should take weeks or more to get your dogs accustomed to a new diet! It just doesn't seem right to me.

I doubt that I'd be still trying after a week of mushy poop! There are so many great dog foods available to us, now. Luckily! 

Best of luck to everyone and I hope everything settles for you quickly!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Wow, someone should send Canidae this thread. This really is terrible--something's obviously very wrong with their new formula!!!!!!









Sorry, everyone. It was a good, affordable, available food. 

I too used to feed it about 7 years ago when I first figured out Basu had allergies and I thought it was a decent food.


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowWow, someone should send Canidae this thread. This really is terrible--something's obviously very wrong with their new formula!!!!!!


That of course would be <u>assuming</u> they cared!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Hmmm...just noticed Canidae is on sale at petfooddirect...wonder why????


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowHmmm...just noticed Canidae is on sale at petfooddirect...wonder why????


It's on sale everywhere this month. At least it is SUPPOSED to be. When I bought food a week or so ago, they tried to charge me the "regular price, I told THEM it was supposed to be on sale per the Canidae website. So they called the distributor and sure enough, $2 off. The woman that owns the place I buy it said they USUALLY tell her when there is a sale, but this time she had NO clue until I told her.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

Well to add fuel to the fire just got a Czech female pup about 6 weeks ago The breeder had her on Canidae ALS at 9 weeks she was 13.7 pounds and real skinny bones showing her coat was really dull and dry and really not much energy.
First thing I did was get her off of Canidae the very first day completely cold turkey.
I put her on Urban Wolf http://www.urbanwolf.cc it's not a kibble but granular you add water to it then you add fresh meat and fish oil I also supplement it with Canine Complete
It took around 3 weeks to really see the difference and the difference is dramatic. Her coat now shines and is nice and fluffy and soft to touch she has endless energy and is very fiesty. Six weeks after I got her she is now 35 pounds in great shape and looks like a million dollars.
It's diet it's all about the diet we are feeding our dogs. This is proof positive Canidae once a pround company has turned to the almighty dollar instead of striving for quality.
Everyone asks what do you feed her she is the best looking pup I have ever seen. They didn't say that six weeks ago when she was on Canidae just how cute she was.


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## kr_egan (Jul 19, 2007)

We fed Athena Canidae for almost a year. In early June, we bought a new bag that I "thought" looked funny. Told myself it was all in my head and just fed it to her. Mushy poop (and golden in color) right a way. A couple of weeks later I hear that they had already started changing the formulas over without telling anyone.







Lightbulb went off in my head! We fed her the entire bag because I kept telling myself "THe poop will get better...it will!" Never did.

A couple of weeks ago we had to buy more food and we switched to Solid Gold Wolf something or other. Did the gradual change and all and as soon as the Canidae was gone, solid poop. I asked the lady at the store and she said that they've gotten about half of their sales of Canidae returned since the new formula because so many dogs are just not doing well on it. If I had known I could return dog food I would have.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

And my pup has grown well, has plenty of energy and a great coat and she eats.....................Canidae and has since 9 weeks.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My dogs are thin, but not boney for the most part, and their coats look good, so I do not have a complaint there. In fact, Cujo's skin problems cleared up on the food. 

And I want to correct my former post where I said they gave me only eight bags of food when I should have gotten 12. Well, the coupons were in three bags and two bags. I got to the store today and pulled out the coupons and noticed that one of the coupons (for the two bags was for 15 pound bags!!! I was furious. But when I was walking down the aisle, the coupon slipped a little and I noticed that there were two there. After redeeming the one, that I intended to redeem, I went back to my car and pulled out the envelope and carefully examined the content. 

They gave me six 35# bags each of lamb and rice and ALS, and they gave me two 15 # bags of each kind. So I got 40# for each 200# and appologize for the angry accusation that they were cheating me. 

PetSupplies Plus's receipts fade quickly until they are practically unreadable, then you have to copy that, and some of these were nearly a year old, so I figured they just decided I deserved a different amount.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I bought Cujo and Pippy one bag each of Wellness Core, and Taste of the Wild Bison/Venison and told Dad to start with one, but to mix it with the other stuff for a little while. If they do not do well on the one, they can try the other. 

Whatever their dogs do not use, I will feed to Dubya.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDAnd my pup has grown well, has plenty of energy and a great coat and she eats.....................Canidae and has since 9 weeks.


Tracy, have you been through the new formula? My dogs did beautifully on Canidae until the new formula. After getting out on the internet and reading the myriad complaints - I am hearing yellow mushy poop almost always and right away. Some people are reporting skin and ear issues - bad breath - general bad body odor - vomiting - bloody diarrhea. Those who report trying to stick it out - report it doesn't go away. I am becoming afraid of a bad batch out there somewhere. Yellow poop spells liver issues to me. Of course, those who are not having problems are not writing in - but there's enough of it out there to make me really concerned. 

I checked around my area and Orijen is not available enough to feel confident that I'll always be able to find it when I need it, so I bought a bag of Wellness. DH pointed out that since they have loose stools already - and I have concerns about a potential bad batch - that I should go cold turkey and just get them off the Canidae altogether. That makes sense and I am going to start this tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes. 

It would be interesting to know, however, if you have started on the new formula? You will notice - the kibble is much larger and quite a bit lighter in color.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Yes, they are eating the new food. All 3 dogs are doing fine, at least so far, and poops are still good. (Poops are a lighter color which isn't a surprise since the food is a lighter color, but not "yellow".) I knew I was buying the new kibble as the bag is different. (And 5lbs lighter.)


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

Martie, I do not believe it is a bad batch. I got my bag at the end of June and people a month and a half later are all having the same problems. I believe it is something new they put in the food. Also people who are having problems are having it on both the ALS and Lamb and Rice. I just hope that others are telling Canidae how they feel and not just complaining about it. I for one will never say another good thing about Canidae.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I sent more than one e-mail to Canidea telling them how I "feel." I get the impression that they do not care. Their reply was defensive rather than empathetic. 

A lot of people have returned the dog food saying their dogs do not do well on it. I think that speaks volumes over e-mails. But as I have some dogs that do ok on it, I am not willing to drag the bags back. 

And as I still have free bags coming, I am not going to turn them down, and switch everyone because a few of my dogs do not do well on it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

from somepup: "I applaud everyone's loyalty and perserverence! However, I don't think it should take weeks or more to get your dogs accustomed to a new diet! It just doesn't seem right to me.

I doubt that I'd be still trying after a week of mushy poop! There are so many great dog foods available to us, now. Luckily!"

Well, it is not so easy a decision to just change because of some mushy or tarry poo. If mushy or tarry was bloody, that would be another matter altogether. 

Currently, this is where I stand with the dogs I am feeding and why changing is not necessarily what I want to do:

Pip is fourteen. I hate doing anything to upset his system.

Cujo had battled skin aliments (food changes) for nearly two years before starting on the Canidae and has been much improved. 

Dubya cannot do wheat or wheat products. 

Arwen gets recurring ear infections and I think that it has something to do with any corn in her diet, because when I remove corn, it gets a whole lot better. She has also been recently pregnant and recently spayed so I finally have her back to her ideal weight, and have figured out her ideal feeding size which at seven seems significantly less than it used to be.

Jenna is in heat and I plan to breed her and I do not want to be introducing serious food changes at this point. 

Babsy is raising seven puppies who are now 10 days old, I hate stressing her system.

Heidi, Whitney, Tori, and Rushie do not have any special reason except that shortly after the last change I made in dog food (to Canidae), my lot came down with this creeping crud, where they were intermittently spewing massive amounts of bloody diarreah. This went on for a couple of months, and my lot were like skeletons, and my vet bills were out of this world before we had everyone healing. 

So arbitrarily changing foods, just because the poo is gushy or tarry or yellow (all true) is difficult to agree to. 

However, we have started Pippy and Cujo on grain free foods now. And whichever kind they use, I will use the other on Dubya as I hope that will start to solidify his poo. 

And when I went to buy the food for Pip and Cujo -- was looking for Innova, not necessarily grain free food. So I read a bazillion labels, and just about all of them had barley or oatmeal or oatmeal AND barley. I think it will be very difficult to find food without barley or oatmeal. Not sure about oatmeal at all, but I have been staying away from it. No corn, wheat, barley, soy, or oatmeal, but I will do rice, brown rice, and potato as starches/fillers/carbs. 

What a poopy problem!!!


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

I also sent another e-mail the other day and got the defensive response about their quality control. I am sure Canidae believes they have optimal quality control, unfortunatly I do not believe Diamond does.


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## larrydee33 (Feb 25, 2007)

selzer
You have quite a family there!!


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## BrennasMom (Mar 2, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzer
> And when I went to buy the food for Pip and Cujo -- was looking for Innova, not necessarily grain free food. So I read a bazillion labels, and just about all of them had barley or oatmeal or oatmeal AND barley. I think it will be very difficult to find food without barley or oatmeal. Not sure about oatmeal at all, but I have been staying away from it. No corn, wheat, barley, soy, or oatmeal, but I will do rice, brown rice, and potato as starches/fillers/carbs.


This is why I broke down and got grain free instead of even trying the new canidae formula. One reason I got canidae in the first place was because it had only rice in it (as far as grains go). While I'm not sure if barley, etc. has affected mine in the past, I'd rather avoid it if I can but it is in almost every food I looked at other than fish/potato and grain free formulas.


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## IsisUnselke (Mar 30, 2008)

Selzer,

I didn't mean that everyone should stop feeding Canidae because of mushy poop. I understand that there are circumstances that would require someone to continue with the same brand. Like yours!

I am lucky to have a dog that handles switches in feed very well. If I had been feeding her the original Canidae, she would probably be one the ones that has an easy transition to the new Canidae.

I do know how hard it is to find dog foods that don't contain wheat, corn, barley or oatmeal! Almost impossible!

However, the changes Canidae made to their formulas were pretty dramatic. Almost as though it were a new food.

Maybe, when the new, NEW Canidae formulas hit the shelves you'll find one that works like magic for your pack!


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

We bought a 44lb. bag of the new formula ALS on Saturday. We've been using the older Canidae for some time and have had good luck with it, but our dogs turn their noses up at the new stuff. They'll eat a small amount and that's it. So we have about 40lbs. left and don't know what to do with it now. Might try and return it for a refund at the store. We went and got 20lbs. of raw chicken and fed them that yesterday and today. The dogs loved the chicken, so we are considering changing to a raw diet for them. 

It's a shame that Canidae went and changed their food. They had a good product and should have just stayed with it. Best of luck to those having good luck with the new stuff, but I believe our days of buying Canidae are over.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

It's funny that your dogs don't like it. I did a "taste test" with Siren and gave her some old and some new is seperate bowls. She ate the new. (My older dogs will eat pretty much anything.) I agreee though, I wish they would have just stayed with the "old" formula. What ever happened to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

If I were you, I would definately try to get your money back.


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

Canidae does have a 100 % satisfaction guarantee. Take it back if you are not happy with it.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I wonder why such strong reactions?!? The barley? 

http://www.canidae.com/new-formulas.html

We need more GSDs with Siren's gut I think!


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

I started my new bag (new formula) 3 days ago...and so far...no ill effects. Weird because my dogs get diarrhea if they look at something besides their regular food...lol...they are extremely sensitive. I was not prepared and did not have old to mix with the new. We went cold turkey. But...due to reading all this...I have been adding some pumpkin..........


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

fyi - The store manager at Pet Supply Plus where I shop did tell me that they have been overwhelmed with returns.......


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI wonder why such strong reactions?!? The barley?


I wish I could say I believe that it is the Barley, but Dallas has had Barley before and never had stools like he did on the new formula. 



> Quote: fyi - The store manager at Pet Supply Plus where I shop did tell me that they have been overwhelmed with returns.......


Does not surprise me. Think Canidae has a clue? Think they care?


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## heidis_parents (Jul 22, 2006)

Also we've noticed our dogs are scratching a lot since being on the new stuff. With the old we didn't have all the scratching. Even our iron stomach puppy is starting to scratch now. Also anyone notice if their dogs are getting more eye boogers than normal? Could be allergies, but it seemed to be more common with the new stuff we were feeding. Well I'm with some of you on switching again to another food. It's hard because with the older Canidae we could feed it to the adults and the pupper. Now I guess we will have to buy two different formulas. We are considering TOTW as a better choice, but have read it might be bad for our puppy. Anyone know if this is true??? Something about the calcium is too high for a puppy??? 

I'm returning the unused stuff to the store this weekend. The pet store owner told me he's had numerous returns with the new stuff. I guess Canidae has kinda left a bad taste in peoples mouths since they switched formulas. Wish they would have stuck with the good product they produced before.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

This morning I had solid poo all around. I am ecstatic!


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: selzerThis morning I had solid poo all around. I am ecstatic!


Yay, Sue!!! We are in the process of switching to Wellness and had to laugh at our "bad" fortune when I read that the Wellness company has been sold to a large conglomerate! Hope there won't be a formula change! I am thinking seriously about just switching to raw. I fed both dogs a raw chicken wing this evening and they LOVED them! I'll keep you posted.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Same thing happened years ago with Canidae. So it doesn't appear to me like they care. If they did, they would've learned from their mistake 5 yrs ago when people's dog suddenly developed the itches, owners redoing flea meds thinking major flea outbreaks, sudden new allergies, NOPE. All due to their changes. Alot of returns done then too. 

I currently feed Nature's Variety chicken/rice to some of mine, others get TOTW Pacific Stream. I've even weaned puppies on to it. (I don't use the other 2 formulas because of the protein levels being too high for puppies, imo, though I guess if you feed raw, you're even higher on protein) Xrayed a few older pups and they're looking good, so I'll keep feeding the pacific stream. 

I will say this, canidae is supposed to be in "acceptable" ranges for puppies to eat the food. The only time I've ever had pano (so bad the 2 pups on it couldn't even stand up) is when on canidae. How do I know it was related to diet? I immediately put them on a raw diet, within 1 wk all symptoms were gone. If I tried putting them back on canidae, it would flare up. I never gave it to puppies again. 

JMO, but I've tried it numerous times since they changed it on me years ago, always the same lousy results. Cheaper food, but crappy (literally) results.


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## agilegsds (Dec 31, 2003)

Here's my experience with Canidae. And this is the 'old' formula, we haven't tried the new one yet (and won't). 

I had everyone on Solid Gold for about 3 years, mostly Wolfking. I wasn't crazy about the stools with Wolfking but everything else was really good. I buy from a distributor and they also carry Canidae, so in April I decided to swich to save a few bucks and to hopefully improve the stools. Well, at first I was happy with it because the stools were better but now, I have two GSDs with anal gland infections and have lousy coats to the point where Cooper and Grace haven't stopped blowing. There are huge clumps of fur coming out constantly. And Kayto, my Sibe, who normally has a gorgeous coat has had a coat for the past two months that is dry to the point that it feels and looks like straw.







Do I know for a certainty that it's the food - no. But why take the chance that it is.

So my new order from the distributor came today and it's Solid Gold Hund-n-Flocken for everyone. I'm expecting better stools on it than the Wolfking because I had a foster on it and her stools improved. If not, I'll be looking again. But right now I do regret the Canidae.


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

Just picked up my first new bag of Canidae last week and Larka is having diarreah (sp?) so bad that I hurt for her. Lacy has such foul smelling gas that I had to banish her from the bedroom. I haven't heard this mentioned before but I also noticed that not only do they clean up there bowls in a hurry, but they always seem to still be hungry. Anyone else notice that they don't seemed satisfied on the same amount?
I do still have some of the old formula left and I am still mixing in the new at a rate of 1 cup new to every 2 1/2 cup old and I'm quickly running out of the old formula. 
I just got home from Tenn. where I went down to adopt a @ 1 yr old male GSD on death row, they feed entirely on donations just mix it all together so who knows what they were feeding him at the shelter. I did find that pedigree and ol Roy







was the base of it so I'm feeding him the Pedigree for now. I was hoping to switch him over to Canidae when I got back home but now that I see the situation with the girls I will be out looking for an old bag of food so I can have time to find something to switch them to. 
I've been using Canidae for over 4 yrs and have recommended it to people. Not anymore!


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## Rügen (Mar 19, 2008)

Sick Puppies!!! I can’t believe how bad this is. I thought I would check on here to see if you guys have been seeing anything wrong too. I was overwhelmed by how many dogs are having the same reactions as mine. 

I got the new formula on Saturday not knowing that they had changed it. My boys are so sick! My 1.5 yr old golden has never had an allergic reaction to food and he has been scratching like crazy! He licked his front leg raw in two days. Poor Rugen has had diarrhea since the new bag and once had BLOOD in his stool. I have watched ever since and have not seen it again. I immediately switched them to solid gold and called their vet. 

I really liked Canidae, Rugen has been on it since he was able to eat solid food at the breeders… I’m really disappointed. I used to recommend it to people, not any more.









I read further up in this thread that both Solid Gold and Canidae are made by Diamond foods??? Tell me it’s not true! 

I’m so mad- this stupid convoluted guessing game- WHAT is really in my dogs food. You research the different foods on the market, make what you believe is an educated decision on your pets nutrition, go out of your way every time to acquire the food and this happens.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear so many people continue to have problems. Seems like Canidae needs to be x-ed off the list of good foods. This is a nightmare and I can't believe heads aren't rolling at their hq. 

Diamond IS the manufacturing plant but they have nothing to do with the ingredients (recipes--I'm sure they do purchase the ingredients per the instructions of different companies) for foods they don't own. They simply manufacture them. 

And the blood is probably from straining. I know it's shocking the first time you see it but unless it's lots of big globs I wouldn't be too concerned. 

I hope your dogs do better on Solid Gold. I'm in the I Love Orijen camp personally.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Some of mine are back to nasty semi-solid, semi-formed poo. No one is sick otherwise though and no blood. 

It seems that the lamb is particularly offensive to the ones of mine that have issues. 

But the chicken wasn't much better for mine. And gave my parents' dogs gass so bad that they had to banish the old one as well. 

Sincerely, 

Still Furious


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## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

We stopped using the Canidae a few weeks ago. The pups both had runny poo and just seemed to go an awful lot, were itchy all the time (especially Shya), and never "full" after eating. Poor pups. Visits to the vet turned up nothing so I had no other choice but to switch the food. I took the bag back to the feed store and explained the situation and they had no problem taking it back. They said that Canidae used to be a pretty big seller but not so much anymore and they've gotten quite a few bags returned to them. It was just so frustrating that something like this happened...you trust a brand and then they change and cause problems. But the pups are now doing very well on the new food.


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## gretasgifttome (Jul 26, 2003)

The chicken and rice flavor seemed to be better on my puppies digestion but on Mandy, who is nervous anyway, she has yellow smelly poo puddles and hair loss. I just got another bag ALS (a 44 lb bag as my distributor had lots of them this time) and all poos seem to be much better. Can every bag be different? I hope not! My dogs don't seem any hungerier that usual and I am still feeding the same amount. You would think a company with as much to lose as Canidae would hear our complaints and work toward a solution.


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: ChristiThe chicken and rice flavor seemed to be better on my puppies digestion but on Mandy, who is nervous anyway, she has yellow smelly poo puddles and hair loss. I just got another bag ALS (a 44 lb bag as my distributor had lots of them this time) and all poos seem to be much better. Can every bag be different? I hope not! My dogs don't seem any hungerier that usual and I am still feeding the same amount. You would think a company with as much to lose as Canidae would hear our complaints and work toward a solution.


I'm amazed that you got a 44 lb bag. Up here I could only get a 35 lb bag at the price of the old 40 lb bag.
I'm not having much luck at finding anyone who has the old bags left and we are going away tonight till next Tuesday. I'm not looking forward to traveling in a minivn for 5 hrs with 4 GSD's with smelly gas!


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

I had already switched a couple of months before the change, but I've told my mom to switch her dog and I made sure that my sister knew about the change. Hmmm, better call her and see if her dogs are doing okay or not...

~Kristin


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: balakai but I've told my mom to switch her dog...... ~Kristin


I wonder how many other folks changed BEFORE they even gave it a chance? I can understand if a dog has a KNOWN issue with one of the "new" ingredients. But if the dog/dogs were doing fine on the origional formula, and DON'T have a known allergy, why "jump ship" before giving the new formula a chance? 

Everyone comes on and says how their dogs aren't doing well on the new, but HOW LONG were they on it BEFORE the owner decided it wasn't working?

My 3 have been eating the new for a little while and none have any "issues" yet. I think I am on the 3rd bag of new.

By all means, it something isn't working for a dog after they have been on it long enough to get used to it, then change. But I KNOW some folks change dog food more often than I change socks and don't give the dogs time to get used to the food. (This applies to new "formulas" as well as a whole new brand.)


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## chevysmom (Feb 15, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD Everyone comes on and says how their dogs aren't doing well on the new, but HOW LONG were they on it BEFORE the owner decided it wasn't working?


We went through an entire bag of "new" and started on another bag before we switched. My pups were looking so skinny, runny and stinky poo, itchy skin, etc. which was all caused by the new formula of Canidae. They had tests run at the vet and everything came back fine. As soon as we switched, they've been doing sooo much better!


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## bmass01 (Apr 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDEveryone comes on and says how their dogs aren't doing well on the new, but HOW LONG were they on it BEFORE the owner decided it wasn't working?
> 
> My 3 have been eating the new for a little while and none have any "issues" yet. I think I am on the 3rd bag of new.


I am glad your 3 are doing well! unfortunately, you are (IMO) in the minority. Dallas was on the new for a week with no improvement in sight. Mushy poos the day after I opened the bag. I understand giving it a chance, but I refuse to make my dog suffer unnecessarily. If your dog was visibly uncomfortable, how long do you think is appropriate to give it a fair chance? I think Canidae screwed up! There is no reason for a formula change to give sooooo many dogs runny or mushy poos for an extended period of time. Couple of days, sure, a few dogs, sure, weeks? months? Hundreds? Thousands of dogs? Who knows how many dogs are affected! Totally Unacceptable! JMO!


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Sam has broken out on the insides of his front legs and under his "armpits". He has bumps and the skin is really pink, as are the insides of his ears. I've bought dog food at the same store for years and according to her, they've had many, many returns of the food. Sam started having really mushy, yellow poo a few days after starting the new bag. I've been feeding ALS Chicken & Rice. We're on the search for a new food. Just to rule out things he might be allergic to, they'll be testing him on Friday. They have some kind of machine that can compare the ingredients of what they're eating to their bloodwork and can identify what ingredients he'll do best on. This should be interesting...

But then again, my 16-1/2 year old Sheltie mix is doing fine on it.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

My guy always messed up within 1 wk of starting a bag with changes in it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My eight have been on the new stuff for about two months now. Dubya is still mustard mushy or tar poopy six days out of seven. If I cut his food down the poo looks better, but he is already skinny. 

Most of the others are ok. 

Babsy is now having the mush poo, but that could be from the puppies. And the toad she ate did not help matters....YUCK!!! 
I was just about to pitch Canidae completely after the stink that Babsy was making, but she passed the toad yesterday, and is feeling a whole lot better. Puppies seem to be fine. 

Whitney and Jenna are a little mushy most days. Then I get a day when everyone has a solid formed poo and think things are getting better. Then I am back to three with mush poo. 

My parents were on the new stuff for three days. They banished Pippy and switched him to some old grain free solid gold that they were hoarding. When I came over, my dad instructed pip to sit near me as it was MY fault! 

Oh well, I DID buy the stuff.


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## Martie (Jun 3, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: balakai but I've told my mom to switch her dog...... ~Kristin
> ...


Tracy, I appreciate what you're saying - I really do. You - and others - have not had this experience. I really believe that if a company is going to change a formula, it should not be to the extent that it causes problems - it should be an improvement. My dogs had immediate, alarmingly yellow, mushy poop. 

You are suggesting that those of us who have had problems should have weaned our dogs to the new improved formula or stuck it out longer. But - it didn't say it was a new formula on the bag - it just looked different. I am absolutely not a person who changes food like I change my outfits. I HATE changing food. I am a person who fed her dogs Pro Plan for years and years. Both dogs died of different cancers during the holidays last year. I am starting all over again and in doing so, have researched and want to give these new dogs the best chance I can of having good long lives (my GSD died at 7!). I chose a premium food and was very happy with the results. Suddenly - this change. I would not have been overly concerned with a little mushy poop - but I found the color of it very alarming. I lost faith in Canidae. I have friends who lost dogs two years ago. I am not as trusting as I once was. I am weaning over to Wellness and am not pleased to learn that Mother Hubbard has just been sold to another conglomerate.

I don't mean any animosity - please believe that - e-mail is such a bad medium - but how long would you wait if you saw yellow mushy poop? I am still not entirely convinced that some of the new Canidae was tainted. It's so strange that some people have had problems and others haven't.

I hope you will take this in the spirit intended. I don't want to be argumentative, but I want to make the point that I firmly believe an "improved" formula should be just that and should not cause alarming changes at all.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Martie,

I believe I "feel" the way your post is intended.









I don't feel that you are being argumentative at all. I also definately wasn't talking about you when I said some people change kibble constantly. But I DO know from reading all of the previous "dog food" realted posts that some folks will change foods after only feeding it for a few days, then decideing(sp) that quickly, that is "isn't working".

I personally don't see the changes as an "improvement" either and wish they had just left the food alone. What ever happened to "if it ain't borke, don't "fix" it"?

The yellowish poops really don't alarm me, as the kibble itself is more "yellow" where as it used to be brown.

I'm just glad that my crew seems to be doing fine as I am in a rural area. As it is I have to drive 40 miles one way to buy kibble and all that is decent and readily available is Canidae, Chix Soup, and Natural Balance. Anything else I would have to special order which is a real b!tch and very unreliable. Because when I was having to order cat food, about half the time, the distributor would either send the WRONG thing, or nothig at all! (And I won't feed Chix Soup again!)

I hope the Wellness is working for your dogs.


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## balakai (Feb 9, 2005)

Tracy, I get what you're saying, but my mom is in her 60s, has pretty bad knee/back problems and doesn't move as quickly as she used to--if Duncan has to go out NOW because of intestinal upset, they aren't going to make it outside quickly. I'd prefer to avoid that. 

I too am not one to switch constantly, but I have several friends/club members that have reported major problems and combined with what I've heard/read on this board and on some other email lists, I am concerned.

~Kristin


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## derby98 (Feb 9, 2008)

Just a side note.......I paid $35.99 last month for a 44 lb bag of Canidae ALS Chicken & Rice. Today I paid $40.99.
They said the price went up due to a manufacturer's price increase.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Um, not so much as that, but it was on sale last month. Canidae cat food dry is on sale starting 9/1

Here are some upcoming price increases:
SAFE PAW - 8/18/08
MARSHALL PET PRODUCTS - 9/1/08
PETCUREAN - 9/1/08
SNACK 21 TREATS - 9/1/08
ULTRAPET - 9/1/08
VARIETY PET FOODS - 9/1/08
WARE MANUFACTURING - 9/1/08
KAYTEE PRODUCTS - 9/2/08
NESTLE PURINA PRO PLAN - 9/2/08
AKZO SALT PRODUCTS - 9/8/08
TRIPLE CROWN DOG ACADEMY - 9/15/08
OLD MOTHER HUBBARD - 10/1/08
C & S PRODUCTS - 10/15/08
ZUKES PERFORMANCE PET NUTRITION - 10/15/08
THE BRAMTON COMPANY - 10/26/08

Some midwest wire crats are on sale this month. Maybe has something to do with the price increase 3 months ago?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

That is still cheap, though I have to ask, is it ALS OR Chix and Rice, they aren't the same thing. As far as I have ever seen on the Canidae sight, only the ALS comes in 44 lb bags, the chix and rice doesn't.

Here the 35lb ALS is $42.05. We can't get the 44lb bags. (Though at least the 35lb bags of ALS were on sale {$2 off} during August.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not know if it is tainted or not. But some of my dogs have a problem, others do not. What is worse is that I finish a bag in less than a week, and when the new bag is opened, my sensitive dogs sometimes have a problem with the new bag, and sometimes they do not. Is this a quality control problem???


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

i consider under $1/pound very cheap these days for any food, and i still consider canidae infinitely bettter than many in that price range. im feeding orijen for now as i can get it locally. i love the results, but it runs $2/lb. the fish is even worse.


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## Rügen (Mar 19, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> Diamond IS the manufacturing plant but they have nothing to do with the ingredients (recipes--I'm sure they do purchase the ingredients per the instructions of different companies) for foods they don't own. They simply manufacture them.
> 
> ...


Thanks







I had the same thought about the blood- it was really light in color so hadn't been digested. 

It is a nightmare that so many of our fur kids are going through this. I'm taking my itchy (now bald in several places) golden to the vet in an hour. We went back to solid gold because it has been the only other food I have ever fed in the past 8 years or so (when I saw the premium dog food light). I cringe about changing food too. If it works why rock the boat... but when they change the formulation... good luck...

I am so sick of kibble! Maybe it's time to *Kick the Kibble to the Curb *and start researching a RAW diet. I just don't want to trust anyone else with my precious dogs health. 

Take care to all the sick pups out there!


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Canidae here is over/approximately a dollar a pound. But I think it is better than most of the other stuff in its price range. 

Going to find the grain free stuff and start Dubya and Whitney on it. Everyone else is doing pretty good on the other stuff. 

Parents dogs are switched.


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## ladyluck (Jan 28, 2004)

we have been feeding Canidae for 7 months to my 9month gsd male pup along with raw diet. since they are changing the formula and have heard such problems with new formulas we are going 100% raw we have slowly eliminated canidae from the diet. so far so good. we were feeding 2 cups a day which took him all day to eat anyway. hes been eating alot better since we stopped canidae. last bag cost us $51.00 for 37 lb bag. Cant believe how many stools he was having a day on the Canidae and how they have decreased on the raw.


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## sheesh101 (Nov 24, 2005)

Another complaint for Canidae- 
I was looking here to see if there were suggestions for other foods and found this thread. I had my 9 yr old boy on ALS for about 6 months and he was doiong great! Coat, muscle/weight, energy and stool all great. After the first bag of the new formula he was dropping weight and his coat looked dull. His stools were softer too. I am switching in the next day or so. I tried a second bag just to make sure, and he still looks rough. I will not be back on Canidae. There is a food locally made here called "Versa" or "Versas" that the food store said was very close to the old Formula of Canidae. Anyone ever heard of that food?


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## gretasgifttome (Jul 26, 2003)

I need to say this for the record. Roxie, my last adoptable 15 week old pup has been on Canidae ALS for the past week after transitioning off Innova Puppy and has PERFECT poo at this point. I don't know if the batch of 'new' ALS before was different or if as she has matured, her system is handling the food better. I am pleased with the stool consistency in all but Mandy and she is on Chicken and Rice. I'll be phasing in ALS to see if she improves as well. 

It shouldn't be this difficult for what we pay for a bag of food, but I am encouraged at this point and will continue Canidae while watching all my guys closely.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

You mean I'm NOT the only one whose dogs AREN'T having "issues"? I can't believe that!


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDYou mean I'm NOT the only one whose dogs AREN'T having "issues"? I can't believe that!


Funny you say that because I had JUST started feeding Canidae as an adjunct to RAW for the first time ever, when all this stuff started popping up on the board!! I was thinking, "oh great as soon as I finally try this well recommended food look what happens!" 

Well we had 2 bags of it and they did fine. No change from feeding Orijen (which is what they were getting before) I was looking for a less expensive kibble to feed with RAW and Canidae looked good and heard good things about it around here.
So ours did great on it as well!

We did change just because I finally found TOTW in our area and it is a good price, but had no problem with the Canidae ALS.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Amazing, there are actually 3 of us in the world that it works for.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: sheesh101 There is a food locally made here called "Versa" or "Versas" that the food store said was very close to the old Formula of Canidae. Anyone ever heard of that food?


Verus maybe? It's been around for a few years. I thought about trying it yet in order to get it, I'd have to order a whole pallet of the stuff. Just decided not to get it since if I ever ran out, there was no place to buy locally


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSDAmazing, there are actually 3 of us in the world that it works for.


make it 4. ive been rotating the new canidae als with orijen. believe it or not. kimba's coat looks a bit shinier on the canidae, but she does poop a bit more (to be expected).

ill certainly be giving the grain free als a try when it shows up at a local retailer.


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## kutzro357 (Jan 15, 2002)

I don`t have any problems with the food. I`m PO`d that the price is up and bag is down to 35 pounds.


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## Apollo (Jan 11, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: BlackGSD
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: balakai but I've told my mom to switch her dog...... ~Kristin
> ...


Had to jump in on this one! I really tried to wait, hoped that the RUNS would pass...that the mustard poop woul go away. Needless to say, I just made the switch....after 2 months.... I got replacement bags from the dealer, replacment coupons from Canidae.... Was lectured by a Canidae rep on gradual mixing..... blah blah blah. I talked to a Canidae rep and he sent me another coupon for yet another replacement bag. I found a dealer with a couple of small bagsof the old formula left and used it to continue the gradual mixing. DIDN'T WORK. I put my dogs through to much stress....almost three months worth. Mushy, yellow poops for 3 months. Sometimes it was ok, and firm...for like one STOOL. I did not make the switch until today. I was hopeful the the food would be ok. I tried to wait...the final straw was when all of my dogs turned there noses up and walkd away from there bowl. MY DOGS NEVER WALK AWAY FROM A MEAL....NEVER! That was yesterday! Today I went out and bought eagle pack.... Switched them all cold turkey and WALLA! Firm poops after one feeding!

When I started feeding them Canidae several years ago...i switched cold turkey and they were fine. They used to scarf down this food.....now i can't even get them to sniff the bowl. So now i have 75lbs worth of food I can't use. 

Funny thing...I was in the store and there was another Gent in there...switching his dogs off canidae as well....Working Pointers. Said he will never use it again. We all know that GSD's can have sensitve Digestive Sytems.... and it is hard to find one food that all of your dogs can do well on! When you do...you want to keep them on it as long as possible. Well i just ran out of time...waiting to see if the YELLOW COW PATTIES that are scattered throughout, my property, WOULD FIRM UP. NADA! 

Goodluck everyone!


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

Okay, silly question - 

It seems like the majority of Canidae feeders are seeing major issues with their dogs on the new formula. I've seen long lists of complaints not just on this board, but other forums, consumer websites, blogs, etc.

I'm curious whether those whose dogs are doing fine with the new formula have dogs who usually have a cast-iron stomach, or whether their dogs often have trouble with foods?

Reason I'm asking is this: I had two fosters previously who could eat literally anything. Switching cold turkey - no issues. Different foods - no issues. Getting into the cat food - no issues. And then I've had fosters whom I had to be very careful with, introducing foods slowly, making sure cat and people food was put away, because they would get the runs at the drop of a hat. I think more dogs are like the latter than the former?


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## kelso (Jan 22, 2007)

I mentioned that mine did fine with the new formula, but you are right they would probably be considered to have "cast iron stomachs" I guess. Hope saying that doesnt jinx us!
I can switch them around with foods and they seem to do well, no itching, or other changes. 

The only thing I have seen give both of them the runs was a bag of beggin strips.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have a question too: Do others that feed different "flavors" depending on availability find that the four meat source seems to be easier to get them used to than the Lamb and Rice or the Chicken and Rice? 

I ask because I have several who do terrible on the lamb, but practically overnight they seem better on the four meat source. And my parents' dogs did terrible on the chicken. The dogs that do awful on Lamb did not do as well on the chicken, but better than the lamb. 

Arwen if anything has better poo on the new stuff -- go figure. Dubya is mush, Whitney and Jenna are off again on again mush/tar, Tori is tarry, Heidi is great. Rushie is fine. Babsy is awful right now, but that may have mitigating circumstances. 

I still have coupons for 3-5 bags of the lamb, and I cannot turn down free food. So now I have to decide whether I feed Arwen, Rushie, and Heidi Lamb while the rest of them ALS. What a total pain this is.


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

I totaly understand that you have your hands full but you have been going through the ringer with Canidae poo problems for well over a month that I'm aware of.
I understand you have new pups and I also wouldn't be in a position to turn down free food.
Putting all of the aside, when you do get all the coupons used up, the pups are older..... Do you think you might switch to a different food or are you going to keep plugging away and hope they get used to it?
I'm asking because I've had 4 dogs with diarreah for almost 2 weeks and I'm ging crazy! My heart really goes out to you.


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## frenchie27 (Jan 12, 2008)

Just out of curiousity....has anyone who's had problems contacted Canidae to let them know?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Yep, contacted Canidae twice. Got the total spiel about how good this is for my dogs and that people need the rice so the dogs are out of luck -- of course not in those words. 

Dubya has been on the four meat source for nearly a week now and I have had three days of solid poo out of him. I have a bag of wellness core that I was going to switch him to, but I may try the new Canidae grain free or I may just insist on the four meat source. 

I am not having diarreah or blood, just mush or tar. I can manage mush or tar. Also, cutting back on Dubya's intake seems to improve poos. So maybe I am over-feeding. The problem is I feel his bones and feel awful giving him less, even if it is true he may digest more nutrients out of less food that is better tolerated.


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## johnrm (Feb 17, 2007)

I was a canidae user and changed when I heard of the changes. Switched to california natural and Zeus is doing great on it, no more itching, and loves the taste better. Hopefully Natura foods doesn't change.


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## ZeusofBillyJo (Feb 9, 2006)

I agree with everyones comments...This is something they should have let there customers know. We have fed our dogs off and on again Canidae for the last 5yrs now. Our Electra, she adamantly refuses to eat. We thought she was going through a faze with being a picky eater. Zeus and Cesar will eat no problem but Electra...its like we have to stand and watch over her to eat.

The other thing that I really didn't like was that they decided to go down to a 35# bag and keep the costs the same. I liked that it did come in 40#'s being that we have 3 dogs it's more economical that more food in the bag is better. Spending 160+ dollars a month on dog food that I would like to feed is a little taxing on the wallet when you have 3 dogs plus 3 humans to feed as well.

Has anyone written the company to complain of the distrust and lack of integrity the company has shown its loyal customers? Maybe we should start an online petition to voice our concern with the way the company has treated its clients.

Well looks like we will be trying to search for some decent food for a decent price (which is really hard in the City we live in)

Glad to see this post.


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## gretasgifttome (Jul 26, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: selzerI have a question too: Do others that feed different "flavors" depending on availability find that the four meat source seems to be easier to get them used to than the Lamb and Rice or the Chicken and Rice?


I think this is a very good question and has much merit. I am no dog food or dog poo expert but* in my experience *with Canidae - puppies under 3 months did not do well with the new formula 80% of the time. However, I knew about the changes but didn't think it would warrant a mixing in with previous food and I had run out of the old before I bought the new, so they didn't get transitioned properly (as Canidae advises). My personal belief is when I feed the same Brand of food, I should have the liberty to switch flavors without huge upset. 

I have never fed Canidae Lamb. When I fed my dogs Nutro Natural Choice Lamb it was not a pretty site so I have steered away from the Lamb, but if I was given it, I would try to use it because I can't turn away free food either (unless its a horrible food like, Dog Chow or Alpo and then I give it to my local shelter).

I was totally suprised at the affect the Chicken and Rice had on the stools, in color and consistency but mostly color. YUCK. The two puppies I had on it did OK but that was after they were pulled off solid food, fed boiled chicken and rice for a day or two then C/R Canidae phased in. I threw away the last portion of the C/R because Mandy quit eating it. And it started to smell bad to me too. Soon as I got her on the ALS 4 meat, the stool turned brown and formed overnight. 

MOST of my dogs don't have food allergies or sensitive stomachs. I have two with allergies and Mandy has a nervous stomach. As of right now, they stools are good on Canidae ALS even the 4 month old puppy. 

The bottom scarey line for me is not so much the cost and size of bag but that they claim to control and manufacture their products when they are made at Diamond. I don't trust Diamond. Maybe Diamond learned their lesson from years ago. Maybe I am being unrealistic. Can we really control or influence WHERE our foods are made if we don't make it ourselves? 

You can bet your bottom dollar though, I'll be checking labels even on brands I trust with a lot more scrutiny.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Today I took my coupons (for free bags of dog food) to PetSuppliesPlus. I told them that my dogs tolerated the four meat source much better than the lamb and rice and asked if I could substitute the ALS for the L&R, they let me. And the woman did not seem a bit surprised that my dogs were having a bad reaction. She must be seeing plenty of problems, but that is a guess as I did not ask. 

Thanks Chris for helping me to believe my eyes on the types of food. Now I am going to be even more adamant about going with the one type of food. It makes sense that the chicken and the lamb will have more of that ingredient and maybe more of the barley or mullett or whatever has them so screwed up.


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

*Consumer Reports on Canidae*

I have been a die hard Canidae user. Last week Nandi had horrible yellow diarrhea. I was feeding one meal raw and one meal Canidae. I ran out of raw--too busy and didn't have enough prepared so I had to have Nandi eat the Canidae for six straight meals. This happens, every few months or so, but never with the new product--then the diarhea came. However, we also had gone out on a hike for 5 hours in a local state park. Hard for me to conclude exclusively. He has been on boiled hamburger and rice and now is back to just raw. I hate to say it but I think it is the Canidae.
This is a link to Consumer Affairs. They have been receiving a large volume of complaints.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/canidae.html

****, both my dogs did so so so well on the old formula. I am now trying California Natural to begin supplementing his raw. His stools are now normal. I can't do raw 100% due to, well, I get busy and ...blah blah blah, life happens ( I restocked my turkey thighs and chicken back and necks to last a while!!)


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

oops I accidently changed the subject line. Back now. I meant to start just an informational new thread sorry.


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## Clare (Feb 6, 2005)

I haven't read this entire thread but I had to add "Iron Gut" Sasha is doing fine! However Wolfgang has the mushy poo and it STINKS! Looks like I am going to be looking into switching their food. It's ashame they did so well on it before...


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## jesmagmisty (Jul 13, 2001)

A friend of mine breeds labs. He switched to Canidae a year or so ago because I said how well my dogs did on it. His dogs all did wonderful on it. Now with the new formula, out of 12 dogs, only four are ok, all the others have varying issues. Two vomiting and diarrhea, all the other different hot spots, lick granulomas, losing hair, digging their feet etc. He called Canidae yesterday. They said there was NOTHING in the change to make them dig and itch. Possible the two with vomiting etc could be related to the change due to the higher protein. They did offer him some coupons.
Just an fyi.
Robbie


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