# blood lines of service dogs?



## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I have a friend, a young mom ( 38) of three children that had her arm amputated last year for cancer and is having surgery on Monday to deal with a recurrence. If she were interested in a GSD service dog who could be her "right arm," be bomb proof in public, and maybe even be trained to detect a cancer recurrence, what bloodlines , breeders should she consider?

She is a girl scout leader, a marathon runner and really needs dog who has energy, can handle kids and pass a public access test.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Any bloodine would work, given the right set of circumstances. You need a breeder that understands what she needs, and is willing to be honest about what they produce. All of my service dogs (4 total) have been American Show Line. She might also look into rescue, as that way she could get an adult dog now for training.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

any line can be trained to be a service dog. there's
probably a dog out there that's trained to fit her needs
and wants.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I agree that any line can be trained to do service work but not any line can actually have the good nerve to handle being out in public as a service dog.

I have taught Benny some service tasks. He picks up items I drop and brings them to me ( even when I pretend not to know I dropped them) He opens the fridge, ( only when asked ) He finds my keys. He will brace me when I get up.

But he is too reactive to be a service dog in the real world. He will react inappropriately when startled or when people approach him in what he deems a suspicious manner.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

1 >>>> any line can be trained to be a service dog. any line
can be trained to perform in public or private.

2 >>>> your dog doesn't set the standard for
service or performance. the way your dog
performs could be a reflection of his training
not his line.



Debbieg said:


> 1 >>>>> I agree that any line can be trained to do service work but not any line can actually have the good nerve to handle being out in public as a service dog.
> 
> I have taught Benny some service tasks. He picks up items I drop and brings them to me ( even when I pretend not to know I dropped them) He opens the fridge, ( only when asked ) He finds my keys. He will brace me when I get up.
> 
> 2 >>>> But he is too reactive to be a service dog in the real world. He will react inappropriately when startled or when people approach him in what he deems a suspicious manner.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Debbie.
Why not start with the service dog organizations and work backwards? They probably know individuals who breed for these characteristics.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I would look for a bloodline known for solid nerves, genetic obedience (pack drive), high thresholds, and a moderate energy level. Some are just too easily exciteable for service work, IMO.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

You want a dog with nerves of steel, a very slow to anger dog that does not show any signs of biting in stressful situations. Your best bet is to find a dog with a predominant Swabian bloodline - which is very hard to find because these are the dogs that have been pushed aside and forgotten by the show and sport crowd. You would benefit tremendously by contacting khawk on this form.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

Doc said:


> You want a dog with nerves of steel, a very slow to anger dog that does not show any signs of biting in stressful situations. Your best bet is to find a dog with a predominant Swabian bloodline - which is very hard to find because these are the dogs that have been pushed aside and forgotten by the show and sport crowd. You would benefit tremendously by contacting khawk on this form.



Forget the dog! I want a husband like that!  

Actually have talked with Kay, spent time with her and two of her dogs and loved them. Don't think she is breeding . She like a few others on this site have forgotten more about the GSD's than most will ever know

How when looking at a pedigree can you tell if the dogs are from Swabian bloodlines?

My friend currently was given a Golden retriever that washed out of Guide Dog School because he was afraid of traffic. He is trained and does some service tasks, but is more of companion to her children than a service dog. She has been told that GSD's are too aggressive and ti risky to be service dogs and I want to show her otherwise.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

got it -- look to Bernd and Bodo Lierberg as recognizable names.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Doggie Dad...I beg to differ with you along these lines, so to speak. I have owned and trained dogs from different lines and how they performed that training was often very reflective of their breeding and lines. You can not train all of the aspects of the dog involved in the performance of tasks. Some of it is genetic. That is what makes breeding decisions so important because of how they impact training and performance of tasks.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

German Shepherds, versatility.



Samba said:


> Doggie Dad...I beg to differ with you along these lines, so to speak. I have owned and trained dogs from different lines and how they performed that training was often very reflective of their breeding and lines. You can not train all of the aspects of the dog involved in the performance of tasks. Some of it is genetic. That is what makes breeding decisions so important because of how they impact training and performance of tasks.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

German shepherds, versatility , does not cover it . 
That is like saying every GSD is a guide dog waiting for the opportunity , or every GSD is a herding dog or a police dog or a detection/SAR ..... waiting for the opportunity. 
Did we not have information that the German police had difficulty finding suitable candidates for service and had to resort to other breeds.
Reason for that is that ALL these things must be deliberately bred for, tested , selected and trained for. 
This afternoon there was a pbs type show about dogs , and they had a portion dedicated to the Russian silver fox experiments for "tameness". After 50 years there are now strains of beautiful foxes which are tame and actually seek out the company of humans - apparently excellent candidates for pets. So the experiment was to see what part was nature and what part was nurture. They placed a "wild" fox kit with a tame mother and litter , with exposure to human socialization in the critical time periods - still the wild kit remained , fearful - aggressive (defensive) against humans. Next they took a kit from a family that had been deliberately bred for tameness for 50 years and placed it in the nest of a "wild" mother and litter . Once again nature prevailed and the tame kit , remained true and domestic "tame". Then they impregnated ova from each representative and transplanted it into the other for the gestational term and raising (identity confirmed by dna) and each specimen was true to its genetics , not the nurture aspect.
So in dogs. There are things which are genetic - you can not train all the aspects for the performance of tasks . Breeding decisions are important. Very important .
The failure rate in randomly sourced dogs for service is high . That is why so many working dog end users have in-house closed breeding programs, whether it be guide dogs, or police - border - etc. 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

carmspack said:


> This afternoon there was a pbs type show about dogs , and they had a portion dedicated to the Russian silver fox experiments for "tameness".
> Carmen
> 
> I think the show was Dogs Decoded. I saw it on PBS and ordered the DVD.It is excellent. You can also see it here in 3 parts.
> ...


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

carmspack said:


> got it -- look to Bernd and Bodo Lierberg as recognizable names.


Are those dogs with the bloodline Doc was talking about? What years would I find those listed in my dogs pedigree? I'm curious because I know Frank has siblings that are now service dogs and those are not the first pups my breeder has had turn out to be service dogs.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Bernd and Bodo; von Bern; Blasienberg; Alex von der Deininghauserheide; Alderpass


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Bodo was Sieger in 1967, then brought to the USA. So, late 60's to early 70's.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

Andaka said:


> Bodo was Sieger in 1967, then brought to the USA. So, late 60's to early 70's.


Thanks!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

yes , that would make it the late 60's very early 70's - Many ddr dogs with haus Himpel have a healthy dose of these lines .


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Late 60s - the golden age of German shepherds in the US - according to Fred Lanting. Long Woth; San Rafael; Rocky River, Hessin ...


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Notice the structure - something you rarely see anymore when one talks about German shepherds


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

Doc said:


> Bernd and Bodo; von Bern; Blasienberg; Alex von der Deininghauserheide; Alderpass


Thanks just found Bernd and Bodo both in Frank's lines.


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