# Finding reputable breeder, classic GSD



## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Hello all, first post...
I am searching for a reputable breeder(s) that have what I'm looking for. I am not ready to purchase now, but will be in 9-12 mos. I'm just starting research.

The GSD has always been my favorite dog, as long as I can remember. I grew up watching reruns of run tin tin and lassie but I always favored the GSD. I loved every GSD I ever met. They are the ideal dog for me.
8 years ago I had a chance to buy the dog of my choice, and after countless days and weeks of research I chose another breed. German Pinscher. Not because I didn't favor the GSD, but because the GP was a better fit at that time since I was moving on my own... healthier (no real health problems at all), smaller (not as much food, space), cost, etc. In hindsight I could have gone for a GSD and I did pay $1500 for the GP, but all the concerns about health and type turned me off. I didnt want to invest so much time and money on a crapshoot. It was much easier to find a reputable and affordable GP than GSD. I love my GP, but I will always be a GSD guy.

So, I still have Heinz, my GP, but I want to start looking for GSD breeders.

What I want:
Male puppy
Black and red (prefer blanket/saddle markings)
Classic confirmation (1920's to 1960's GSD)
Mixed bloodlines (show/working, West/Ddr/Czech/American/etc)
Basically a breeder that breeds for breed standard rather than show or lines, but still retains appearance and workability (herding, sport, schtz)...well balanced, jack of all...

Not really interested in high profile breeders with premium prices...I'm not a cheapo, but I can't see going past $2000 MAX for a pup.
Location doesn't matter much, I live in Florida but my GP was shipped from canada.
Am I asking for too much, or do these hobby, breed first breeders exist?


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Any help would be appreciated, thanks...


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

You've thrown a very large net for yourself. There are some things I can point out to you like the fact that most responsibly bred GSD's can do both show or work. Which one they excel at will depend on what breeder you go to and what they focus on. A show line breeder will be looking for confirmation while a working breeder will be looking for drive (in extremely simplistic terms, but basically they have different goals for their dogs). Most that I have seen don't do much mixing of so called "show lines" and working lines. They're usually either working or show. I do know that black and red is rather rare in working line, so if you're set on the color you might want to look into show lines. 

But much of your description is just that - description. You're describing what you want the dog to look like based on your own belief of what a "classic" GSD should be. What would help you much more is to think about what you want your dog to be like as far as temperament, personality, drive, etc. And what do you want to do with your dog? Are you looking for a companion? A dog for schutzhund, agility, or maybe just hiking? It is important to think more along these lines because knowing these traits are what will help best in steering you towards the right breeder with the right dogs for you. 

You also want to know what you're looking for because if you go to a breeder just telling them you want a black and red male, they're probably going to turn you down as ignorant. Breeders will keep preferences in mind, but they will choose a puppy they feel will fit in best with you no matter what color or gender it is. Many breeders don't allow you to choose your own puppy. So they may have a black and red male in a litter, but feel that it is not a good match for you. Open up your options, think about what you really want from your dog beyond what it looks like and think about how you want it to fit into your life. If you come back with answers to those, you're much more likely to get suggestions.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Pax8, thank you for your reply!
I admit, what I presented was more of a very general guide as to what I would like a dog to look like.Ã‚Â* I have plenty of time before I'm ready to get a GSD so I know I can get both the appearance and character traits in one package if I look hard enough.
I am looking for a dog that might not be the BEST schutzhund, show, or work prospect but could hold its own if trained for any discipline.
I am looking for a family dog first.Ã‚Â* Temperment, health, and intelligence is #1.Ã‚Â* I might be interested in sport and Schutzhund in the future and want a dog that has the ability to do these things.Ã‚Â* I like dogs with good drive and my GP has a very high prey drive.
I've done a lot of research these past few days and also 8 yrs ago when I was looking so I wouldn't consider myself ignorant on most of these issues considering I've never owned a GSD.Ã‚Â* I know there are show lines that can produce what I'm looking for (Kirschental) but that many have health, temperment, and workability issues.Ã‚Â* It's more likely to not get the whole package.Ã‚Â* I know working lines would get me closer to what I'm looking for in temp and drive, but there is a good chance of getting a dog that is just too much for a normal life.Ã‚Â* Besides, if I can only have one GSD at a time, I'd rather get one that fits me aesthetically.Ã‚Â* That is also harder in working lines.
I know there have been breeders with success in combining the show/work lines but I don't remember which ones they were and haven't done extensive research yet this time around.Ã‚Â* I wanted to start here since from what I've seen most posters are knowledgeable about the GSD.


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

Pax8 said:


> You've thrown a very large net for yourself. There are some things I can point out to you like the fact that most responsibly bred GSD's can do both show or work. Which one they excel at will depend on what breeder you go to and what they focus on. A show line breeder will be looking for confirmation while a working breeder will be looking for drive (in extremely simplistic terms, but basically they have different goals for their dogs). Most that I have seen don't do much mixing of so called "show lines" and working lines. They're usually either working or show. I do know that black and red is rather rare in working line, so if you're set on the color you might want to look into show lines.
> 
> But much of your description is just that - description. You're describing what you want the dog to look like based on your own belief of what a "classic" GSD should be. What would help you much more is to think about what you want your dog to be like as far as temperament, personality, drive, etc. And what do you want to do with your dog? Are you looking for a companion? A dog for schutzhund, agility, or maybe just hiking? It is important to think more along these lines because knowing these traits are what will help best in steering you towards the right breeder with the right dogs for you.
> 
> *You also want to know what you're looking for because if you go to a breeder just telling them you want a black and red male, they're probably going to turn you down as ignorant. Breeders will keep preferences in mind, but they will choose a puppy they feel will fit in best with you no matter what color or gender it is. Many breeders don't allow you to choose your own puppy. So they may have a black and red male in a litter, but feel that it is not a good match for you. Open up your options, think about what you really want from your dog beyond what it looks like and think about how you want it to fit into your life. If you come back with answers to those, you're much more likely to get suggestions.*




I don't completely agree with this part. I also knew I wanted a red and black male. Of course I had other things I wanted, but I went to a reputable breeder and was able to get what I wanted. Also, I am not convinced that there is one puppy from the litter that is a clear match for the buyer. I'm sure that is the case sometimes, but often I would think there would be a few puppies that were a match. At least in my situation the breeder had a group of puppies I could choose from, and told what the differences were between pups. So she and I both had a say in the decision. She did encourage me to consider a female, but was fine when I decided on male.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Pax8, thank you for your reply!
I admit, what I presented was more of a very general guide as to what I would like a dog to look like.Ã‚Â* I have plenty of time before I'm ready to get a GSD so I know I can get both the appearance and character traits in one package if I look hard enough.
I am looking for a dog that might not be the BEST schutzhund, show, or work prospect but could hold its own if trained for any discipline. A


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Btw, is anyone seeing my replies? I can't see them off of my phone so I don't know if they are showing up...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes; they are posting MULTIPLE times. You have 4 different posts starting with "Pax 8, t hank you for your reply!"


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

What is this all about, Ã‚Â* before a sentence?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Welcome to the forum and great news that you are doing your research so far ahead.

Any puppy can be a bit of a crap shoot with genetics always being involved, but finding a good 'responsible' breeder who is educated in both their dogs and the breeds is a huge help.

Were you able to look at --> http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/welcome-gsd-faqs-first-time-owner/162231-how-find-puppy.html as well as ---> http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...nk-how-tell-good-breeder-website-bad-one.html ?

I know the links and information on those threads are always great tips and reminders for me.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks for the welcome, and for the links. I've been able to review this info and I think for the most part I'm well informed on that stuff.

So now, is there any breeders that you would recommend based on what I'm looking for??


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Great you reviewed the site I posted. The more you know when you talk to the better breeders, the more they will be impressed you know the breed and will be seriously considered for one of their pups. 

If you just start wandering around this forum, you'll see many of us have our dogs names in our signature lines, that give you a start to look up breeder links based on the names you see (the better breeders name the pups before we get them so the names you see go back to the breeder, not just stopping at the owners). Also, go back in the threads and you'll see other people looking for pups and other breeders recommended. 

You should have NO trouble staying under the $2000 for what you are looking for. But the wait may be up to 6 m (more or less) so good to get on the list(s) and then see how the breedings go.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks again for your help, I am learning as much as I can about this breed so I feel confident about my knowledge. 
Do you, or does anyone have any specific breeders in mind? I'd rather not search every GSD breeder especially since most don't fit the description I'm looking for. But i did find one breeder that mixes bloodlines and has some impressive dogs.

Eichenluft
http://workinggermanshepherd.com/index.htm

Does anyone have info about this breeder? Any other recommendations on breeders like this?


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Some of the 'better breeders' name the pups prior to placing them. Others don't. That's among the very last things I'd concern myself with. Truly 'better breeders' produce structurally sound, physically healthy, athletic, robust, intelligent, biddable, long lived GSDs with exemplary temperaments that are an absolute pleasure to live with.


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## HuskyMal89 (May 19, 2013)

I would say that from the posts you have and the description you've given a west german show line would give you the best chance of getting a dog that best suits you. Like you have stated...a working line may have too much drive for what your looking for...they make a great dog (I have a Czech border line male and a Czech/west german cross male) but not for everyone. I am no expert on show lines so I cannot recommend any breeders to you. I do know that a well balanced and bred west german show line can have the ability to participate in IPO and still have the confirmation and coat color ( if that is important to you) that your looking for. Good luck in your search!! I will say the black/reds make a great looking dog.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

At times.....setting a "limit" on anything might impede upon your desire to come to fruition.

As some others have mentioned...a WGSL might fulfill the superficial requirements you have....

However, as you stated " concerns about health and type turned me off."...I think you put a premium on the proper criteria. Once you have found through your due diligence a GSD breeder which has a history of healthy GSDs to fulfill this requirement.....then start to eliminate using your other desires in a GSD. Most likely, the GSD you end with, will win your heart over many times....longevity....name of the game.... at the top of the "list".

SuperG


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

I just wanted to add the color black and red is not at all rare in working lines!!


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## mharrisonjr26 (Feb 10, 2011)

Eichen luft is owned by molly graff


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

HuskyMal89, this is what I started to conclude a few days ago, but then I started looking for breeders had what I was looking for and found next to none...too many frog dogs and emphasis on show/looks. Not that all were like this, but I'm weary of any breeder that uses frog dogs in their program. Plus there is the health concerns and working lines are generally considered healthier.
However, I was able to find more breeders that do these types of crosses and I have high hopes again...

Eichenluft
Mathausen
Hausbrezel
HausMiller
HausVianden

Anyone care to give their opinion on these breeders, either here or by PM?

ALSO, is anyone able to compare the temperament of GSD's to German Pinschers? My GP is very much like what you read a GP is supposed to be like. He is 8.5 y/o and just recently started to show his age, slightly. This is also why i'm not concerned on getting a GSD with some working drive.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

mharrisonjr26, I have seen this but could you point me to some examples that you know of, thanks.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

SuperG, thanks, that is what I'm trying to do and since I am in no hurry I won't settle until I find what I'm looking for.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=39-dingo-vom-haus-gero

This is as near perfect in conformation in my very untrained eyes as I've seen...I came across this dog in a pedigree search while researching a random kennel. This dog just caught my eye, and I hadn't even noticed the VA1 or anything else, just the picture and the name. After a google search I realized this was the same dog from the famous GSD gait video.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Just a note on working ability. You need to actually see the dogs working in action. Breeders of show lines tend to overstate the fact their dogs have working ability. ASL dogs don't need to be titled and you may not know how good they are at work and WGSL dogs, while needing to be titled, there are cases where breeders have "bought" the titles.

Also of note, not all breeders work their dogs, they just buy show winners and add them to their breeding stock. So be wary of that too.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up! As far as ASL, I just included that in my OP to make a point about breeding for a standard not a specific line...I'm not actually considering any ASL lines as I haven't heard of a breeder that has successfully used them in crosses to improve the breed.

Yes I read that the Schz titles can be bought so that's part of why I'm staying away from pure WGSL breeders. I will make sure to look for breeders that have proof of working dogs.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Try Helen Gleason at Nocturn Acres. She mixes German Show and American show lines. Her Navigator is a Sch3, and many of her dogs do well in all sorts of dog sports. She is located in Florida.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

Andaka said:


> Try Helen Gleason at Nocturn Acres. She mixes German Show and American show lines. Her Navigator is a Sch3, and many of her dogs do well in all sorts of dog sports. She is located in Florida.


Thanks for the info! But the way I see it I don't think a ASL/WGSL will be any healthier, better drive, or better conformation than a WGSL/WL cross or even a pure WGSL. That'd be going the opposite way of what I'm looking for.
However, her website does look pretty nice as well as her dogs.


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## JAVez1983 (Oct 8, 2014)

So I'm still doing my research and looking around and I am also considering looking for a certain WGSL bloodline that I've read good things about. Supposedly this breeder used to breed with the same ideal that i posted in my first post. I remember this name even when I was looking 9 years ago.

Anyone have more info on the Kirschental lines?
I know the founder is gone, but I also know that several of his dogs are being bread here...


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