# Devastated:dog attack



## noelle (Jun 26, 2009)

I am heartbroken and just sick right now! My boy attacked and seriously hurt another dog tonight! He has for awhile now been showing some very concerning dog aggression, particuairly towards small dogs and increasing when he or another dog is on leash. I did do an OB course with a 1:1 trainer & wasn't satisfied so I have been looking into behaviourists and, courses, trainers, etc in our area. I have had numerous consults with our vet as well. In the meantime we have built a secure dog run in our yard when we can't be with him directly and don't let him in the yard unsupervised,etc. Tonight I was in the yard with the kids & the dog & my husband was at work, well he came home & didn't know & he didn't realize Ruger was in the yard. He opened the garage door (we have a garage off the back of our property & it opens into an alley/park area) and Ruger ran out to say hi to my husband. My husband says at that point a family walked by with their small dog on leash & Ruger ran out (I wasn't there so I didn't see what happened) but my husband believes he went after the dog and maybe was even trying to play and the litle one snapped and Ruger lunged. He says then the owner panicked & tryed pulling her dog away, when my husband yelled Ruger stopped & returned to the yard, but the damage was done! At this point I heard the yelling & ran out. Her kids & my kids were hysterical and she yelled that she needed a vet so I brought Ruger in & kennelled him and called my Emerg vet. I told the woman to take her dog & I would follow, she said not to bother & I responded I am responsible & she said yes you are so whatever. So I met them at the vet who checked the dog & explained treatment, etc and I said please do whatever is neccessary & I will cover all costs & the woman said yeah she'll be paying everything.... anyways I apologized over and over again, but I just had an update from the vet, the little guy needed lots of stitches but will likely make a full recovery. She wanted me to be prepared though that the other family is asking about the "laws" and insisting my boy be PTS and I am guessing we are facing a lawsuit. My vet is advocating for advanced work with a behaviourist,etc but they are adament at this point. I have gone so far as to look into a reputabl trainer/breeder who might be willing to take my boy train him & re-home(because I would rather give him up to something better then see him PTS)!! I am at a loss, I fully acknowledge our responsibility but there is no comprimise seeming to come from them, I'm hoping when they get their dog back & realize he'll be okay they'll come around a bit & I have honestly tried to stay calm, be sincere & as I said, I have willing offered to cover any & all costs! I just don't know what will or even should happen at this point! Her dad had come to the clinic & was yelling at me that he attacked his grandkids, I was crying & trying to explain he wasn't trying to attack the people, kids, etc & my own 3 little ones were right there but they seem determined to believe he is a vicious attack dog.
Sorry for the novel, but I just needed to get it out I suppose. My poor guy is currently laying at my feet without a care in the world & very concerned about mom's distress.....


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

First of all I am so sorry this happened to you and hope the best comes out of this for you and your family your dog and the other dog's family.

I also want to condone you for taking responsibility for what your dog did and trying to work his DA issues. Your dog didn't attack anyone and shouldn't be put to sleep.

I hope all turns out for the best for everyone.


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## noelle (Jun 26, 2009)

Thank you Jessie...
I'm praying now that everything works out for us all as well! My poor boy, he's such a sweetie & I can barely look at him without crying...mainly because I fully know that none of this is his fault, but all ours!
I just hope they can move past their anger & fear & we can at least reach some amnicable agreement that would spare my boy his life!!


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## R3C0NWARR10R (Mar 26, 2010)

Sorry to hear that this happend. In most states unless the dog attacks a person they will not harmed. You will not likley need to re-locate the dog either as this is usually only an option for people who have repeat problems. Small dogs are usually reactive. My Sh-it-zu is snappy at my one pup and causes him to get excited. My fiance's grandmother has a chiuahua (or however that is spelled) and it is really reactive to other dogs and caused Akira (my white mutt) to attack her. Who knows they may have even over reacted and caused an even bigger problem. If you are paying for the bills for the dog they shouldnt have any reason to sue you, but im sure they will try to find somthing. 

Either way do not let it keep upsetting you and do things to correct it such as the behavoral classes and enroll as soon as possible to help mitigate any repructions should there be any. aw:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Sorry this happened,,if I were you , I would check into the laws and such asap in your immediate area to get some good knowledge of what possibly could and could not happen.

Hope things turn out ok,,please keep us updated.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I also think that as far as the law coming in and saying your dog needs to be PTS, this happens more for dog on PEOPLE aggression rather than dog/dog. So you may be ok with that.

Most vets are generally useless on behavioral issues, though they won't say so. You really need to step up and be able to work on this. What does your breeder recommend?


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## goatdude (Mar 3, 2009)

That's a big concern with a reactive large dog. I'm in the same boat and even though my dog has not seriously bit another dog I'm concerned some day she will. She already nipped a toy Poodle and left marks. Naturally, the Poodles owner was not amused. You won't have to worry about the PTS issue and anyone can file a suit. May or may not be thrown out and they may cool off too. You're really going to have to be extra vigilant, 24/7/365 - I am with my dog.

Good luck with a behaviorist, I've been to two of them so far and have seen little change.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I would contact an attorney, someone who deals with this and is familiar with local laws. Does your area have a leash law? Was the family in a private alleyway or a public area? etc etc

In some places, the argument could be made that your dog attacked livestock. Unlikely, but depends on if they have a lawyer. In many rural areas, dogs with more than one livestock report can be put down. Since this is his first offense, then you are probably ok.

Does your vet know that you have been working on aggression issues? More importantly, does this family know it?? If so, they have some serious ammo to use against you. You knew that he had potential problems, still let him out in a public place unrestrained and he injured another dog. Again, doesn't mean that you will have to put him down, but it could leave you with a hefty fine and a declaration of a dangerous dog.

In some areas, that means muzzle any time he is not confined. Even if he is walking from your front door and straight into the car. Special fencing designed that NOTHING can get close to him. Not just a pen in the back yard, but heavy gauge, fully roofed, completely escape proof. That includes muzzled when he is walking from your back door and to the special kennel. Even one provable instance of you not following the rules can get him taken away.

Not trying to scare you, but this is very serious even without the worry of him being put down. So, I would contact an attorney and find out what you are looking at. I wouldn't just sit around and hope that they decide not to go through with it.


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## brucebourdon (Jun 2, 2010)

Noelle,

I think it's good advice to find out the laws in your area, And keep talking with other GSD owners, especially those who may have some insight / experience (I don't, but I doubt you'll have to face the difficult choices of PTS or finding another home for him). In any case, clearing up some of the uncertainty will help ease your mind.

We share your concerns and sorrow, and pray it will work out okay.
Bruce.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

I agree you should become familiar with your local laws and probably contact an attorney. 

The county I live in has the most insane law - if a dog kills something off his property he will be PTS ... NO IF'S, AND'S OR BUT'S! It's my understanding the law is currently being tested in court, I hope they find it illegal.


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## noelle (Jun 26, 2009)

Thank you all for your support & encouragement!

As it is Sunday there is little I can do as far as contacting a lawyer, etc. I have been researching the by-laws in our area & well I am sure anyone can file a civil suit for any reason it does not appear that he would be legally PTS because the other dog was not killed and there was no human aggression. I have begun emailing behaviourists and I am trying to find one who is reputable & could become involved ASAP. As for our breeder, that's another story. Lets just say I have had some issues and have come to believe that although she appears credible at first, she's really not.

I believe the little dog is going to be released to his family today and I will follow up with the vet on Monday. She wasn't sure if Ruger would be required to be quaratined, from my research I don't think that will have to happen (again the other dog wasn't killed & no human aggression).

Again, thank you all for your support and the information you have provided.


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## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

Check your laws. Get documentation that you paid the bills and try to get a statement from the emergency vet that you were concerned enough to meet them there. Get pictures of your containment, show the weak spot and then show how you have made sure that that will not occur again.

Look long and hard for any other weak spots and shore them up. Document what you did.

Give thanks to your God or the Universe that none of the people involved, especially the children got a scratch on them. 

While all is still fresh in your mind, write everything down including the conversations with the woman and the grandfather. As close to word for word as you can. Write down the names of anyone that may of witnessed any of it.

And hopefully you will never need any of it.


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## BadLieutenant (May 9, 2010)

just returned from a long walk and 5 minutes into it, a large mixed Chow /Shepherd charged out of a house and attacked my 9 month old....i dumped my 20 OZ coffee on the charging dog and was screamed at by the owner. I do carry a gun when on walks (Middle of a large city) Owners of dogs that may charge out of a front door or backyard should be careful because of several states having CCW carry laws. A legal CCW holder would only have to say he was "in fear of his life". Especially if the dog is a GSD...Rott...apbt.


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## tatiana (Feb 3, 2010)

noelle said:


> I am heartbroken and just sick right now! My boy attacked and seriously hurt another dog tonight! He has for awhile now been showing some very concerning dog aggression, particuairly towards small dogs and increasing when he or another dog is on leash. I did do an OB course with a 1:1 trainer & wasn't satisfied so I have been looking into behaviourists and, courses, trainers, etc in our area. I have had numerous consults with our vet as well. In the meantime we have built a secure dog run in our yard when we can't be with him directly and don't let him in the yard unsupervised,etc. Tonight I was in the yard with the kids & the dog & my husband was at work, well he came home & didn't know & he didn't realize Ruger was in the yard. He opened the garage door (we have a garage off the back of our property & it opens into an alley/park area) and Ruger ran out to say hi to my husband. My husband says at that point a family walked by with their small dog on leash & Ruger ran out (I wasn't there so I didn't see what happened) but my husband believes he went after the dog and maybe was even trying to play and the litle one snapped and Ruger lunged. He says then the owner panicked & tryed pulling her dog away, when my husband yelled Ruger stopped & returned to the yard, but the damage was done! At this point I heard the yelling & ran out. Her kids & my kids were hysterical and she yelled that she needed a vet so I brought Ruger in & kennelled him and called my Emerg vet. I told the woman to take her dog & I would follow, she said not to bother & I responded I am responsible & she said yes you are so whatever. So I met them at the vet who checked the dog & explained treatment, etc and I said please do whatever is neccessary & I will cover all costs & the woman said yeah she'll be paying everything.... anyways I apologized over and over again, but I just had an update from the vet, the little guy needed lots of stitches but will likely make a full recovery. She wanted me to be prepared though that the other family is asking about the "laws" and insisting my boy be PTS and I am guessing we are facing a lawsuit. My vet is advocating for advanced work with a behaviourist,etc but they are adament at this point. I have gone so far as to look into a reputabl trainer/breeder who might be willing to take my boy train him & re-home(because I would rather give him up to something better then see him PTS)!! I am at a loss, I fully acknowledge our responsibility but there is no comprimise seeming to come from them, I'm hoping when they get their dog back & realize he'll be okay they'll come around a bit & I have honestly tried to stay calm, be sincere & as I said, I have willing offered to cover any & all costs! I just don't know what will or even should happen at this point! Her dad had come to the clinic & was yelling at me that he attacked his grandkids, I was crying & trying to explain he wasn't trying to attack the people, kids, etc & my own 3 little ones were right there but they seem determined to believe he is a vicious attack dog.
> Sorry for the novel, but I just needed to get it out I suppose. My poor guy is currently laying at my feet without a care in the world & very concerned about mom's distress.....



No sense in recapping what you did right, which was almost EVERYTHING! Document, document, document!! Listen to the advice you've received.

The only sentence in your story I see as problematic is "husband believes he went after the dog and maybe was even trying to play." No, he wasn't trying to "play." With an established history of dog aggression, particularly toward small dogs, there was no way in he!! your dog was initiating play. For your sake, DON'T EVER MENTION PLAY. It will only further enrage the other owners, and may do the same to a judge if this ends up in court.

You will calm down after you've spoken to an attorney and found a behaviorist. This was a true accident, but now ALL expectation to correct any possibility of it happening again is on you. 

Good luck with finding someone to help you right away.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Absolutely contact an attourney who is familar with the animal control laws in your state! Might also try to find out all you can about the other dog - any complaints etc. about that dog. Even check with their neighbors. get ready to defend yourself as it sounds like it might be needed! But get to an attourney asap!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Thinking of it, you might also want to detail with your hubby what actually happened - where in detail did the attack take place - i.e. was it on your property (hopefully!) or in the public property as sometimes this can make a difference depending on the laws in your area. What did the other dog do? etc. etc.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

So sorry this has happened to you.

Where abouts in Canada are you? I can recommend a name of a good behaviourist in Guelph, Ontario.


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## onyxboy (Jun 6, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Sorry this happened,,if I were you , I would check into the laws and such asap in your immediate area to get some good knowledge of what possibly could and could not happen.
> 
> Hope things turn out ok,,please keep us updated.


I so agree with you. You did the right thing by offering to pay for the vet, but that is all I would agree to, Don't say you are willing to pay for everything because that word everything mean everything including law suit. Just be careful with your wording. You can go back to the vet and say look, I was upset and what I would like to do is pay for the dogs vet expenses. Be very careful with your wording. I'm sure then things will work out ok for you and your dog.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

First, sorry to hear what happen.

I think it's not your fault, we can't always prevent what could happen. You did very well by proposing compromises, proposing to pay for any costs etc.

For sure, they were terrified and on the moment, they may have say things they didn't really think (I hope!).

I'm not sure they have the right to force you to PTS your dog for a dog attack! They have no proof that your dog wanted to attack them.

You should consult the law and even, an attorney. If they come back to you, maybe you can propose them to take a obedience course with you and your dog so they could see he is not human agressive, but maybe have serious issues with other dogs.

I know how you feel. Phenix was acting this way. He once attacked a little puppy and I felt so bad. Hopefully, the owner did understand and told me it was OK. I know how hard it is to feel the other persons thinking your dog is crazy when you know he is the best friend you could have. It is VERY heartbraking.

But, I know how hard it is to feel unsecure about you dog's attitude with other one.

I think you did all right, you did try a lot of things and obviously you are a responsible owner.

Continue to search for a good behaviorist. If you want, do not hesitate to contacte me by PM if you want more information on how I do with my boy and its agressivity toward other dogs.

Hope everything will be all right!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

To the OP:
As this thread is common public information, I would not post on it any longer. 
You will probably have a suit against your dog, unfortunately from the sounds of the comments made by the other dogs owner. 
This is my _worst_ nightmare as both Kacie and Onyx hate the next door neighbor dog, if they got out and got to him, I know they would seriously injure him. Not his fault~ he is a sheltie that circles and barks constantly when loose. He doesn't wander off his property, to his credit.

I feel for you and your family, the family of the injured dog as well. I hope they can forgive and he heals without complications.
Another member recently had this happen TO her dog, and the owner is not acting responsible at all, blaming his child for letting the dog out, etc...you are stepping up to the responisiblility which says alot about your character.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sorry this happened. 

The other people were probably terribly upset, and saying so at the time. I hope that they come around, as you have done your best to appologize and pay for the damages.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> To the OP:
> As this thread is common public information, I would not post on it any longer.
> You will probably have a suit against your dog, unfortunately from the sounds of the comments made by the other dogs owner.
> This is my _worst_ nightmare as both Kacie and Onyx hate the next door neighbor dog, if they got out and got to him, I know they would seriously injure him.


 Likewise, posting that you know your dogs are likely to "seriously injure" your neighbor's dog can be incriminating.


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## acrburg (Jun 27, 2010)

Everyone please realize that the 'victims' here are the dog that was attacked and its poor family. 

Sounds like the attacking dog has real issues. Sounds like a living liability.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

acrburg said:


> Everyone please realize that the 'victims' here are the dog that was attacked and its poor family.
> 
> Sounds like the attacking dog has real issues. Sounds like a living liability.


Sounds like YOU might be involved in some way. :thinking:


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Jax08 said:


> Sounds like YOU might be involved in some way. :thinking:


I was thinking that exact same thing..


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

acrburg said:


> Everyone please realize that the 'victims' here are the dog that was attacked and its poor family.
> 
> Sounds like the attacking dog has real issues. Sounds like a living liability.



The OP feels bad enough as it is and is doing everything possible to resolve the situation. Pays for the bills and truly cares about the dog that got bit. What else is she supposed to do?


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

everybody knows who the victums are. i think
everybody is concerned about both dogs and the families.

everybody wants the situation to work out for the best
for all involved.

the OP truly stepped up to the plate and did the right thing.

you know acrburg i feel like your comments are unnecessary
and snarky and so does my dog that's why he just gave
you "the paw". "good boy Loki, good boy".



acrburg said:


> Everyone please realize that the 'victims' here are the dog that was attacked and its poor family.
> 
> Sounds like the attacking dog has real issues. Sounds like a living liability.


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## goatdude (Mar 3, 2009)

acrburg said:


> Everyone please realize that the 'victims' here are the dog that was attacked and its poor family.
> 
> Sounds like the attacking dog has real issues. Sounds like a living liability.


yea sounds like sounds like a nice first post.


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

I am sorry to hear of this just like any post I have read similar. I can't imagine how upset you must be. Each time I read something like this I stare at my puppy Jake and wonder what our future holds...you do the best you can to do the right thing....that's all you can do.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

acrburg said:


> Everyone please realize that the 'victims' here are the dog that was attacked and its poor family.
> 
> Sounds like the attacking dog has real issues. Sounds like a living liability.


This story is called "accident" = unwanted situation.

I think she did try a lot of things to manage her dog's issues and that she was very aware of her dog's issues. She tried hard to find a solution to it. It is not like if she did nothing and was irresponsable.

She felt so sorry and she did what ever is posible to help the poor little dog and his family, what else could she do? An accident is an accident, you can't always prevent them, especially in this case.

When you have nothing interesting or intelligent to wrote, just close the Internet window and come back later.


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## noelle (Jun 26, 2009)

I just wanted to post a quick update & also to say Thank you & goodbye.......

The little guy who was hurt is recovering well, he had his first emergency surgery & then needed a follow up surgery as the wound was not healing right. We covered the costs of both surgeries as well as follow up care. I have spoken with the family a few times to check on their dog & see how they are doing , it has certainly remained strained but at least civil. I have been involved with the police & the by-law in our area and it was decided that we would not be charged & the family decided not to pursue a civil suit. We were advised that we could no longer keep our in town, this was after a long week fighting for his life! Initially, the other family & the by-law wanted him PTS; however, there really was no legal grounds for this (it was also determined by the vet & by-law after investigation that he was reactive versus aggressive.....as in he is not out to attack & hurt, but unfortunately that was still the outcome). We found him an amazing home far out in the country on a large acreage. He has gone to live with a couple & another Shepherd. They are GSD people and they will work with him & focus on the training & time he needs and deserves. They were wonderful, willing to sign a letter acknowledging his histyory & risk and accepting all future responsibility & liability for him. I miss my boy & am still heartbroken, but I am so happy the other dog will recover & my boy has a second chance at a great life he deserves!!
Thank you again to all of you who previously offered your knowledge, understanding & guidance on thesse forums, and later to those who offered your compassion & support here. 
I will always love the GSD!!!!!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sounds like as good an outcome as good be hoped for!


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

oh my im sorry that happend, shilo was attacked alot at parks.. i always knew i was at blame but it never helps when others tell you its all your fault, so i also see it the other way, it isnt your fault itd the other owners for bringing in an agressive or reactive dog :/ i hope your baby is alright, shilo turned out pretty darn good after some dog attacks


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm so sorry you had to give him up, but am glad he was not PTS..


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I am sorry too...sounds like you found him a good home


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I am so sorry that you had to give him up. It just doesnt seem fair. It's very good that he has a good home to go to, and that he wasn't pts.


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## brucebourdon (Jun 2, 2010)

You certainly went the extra mile for everyone Noelle, and because of your efforts your dog has the best chance possible for a good and happy life.

Please take comfort in that, as your hearts heal.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I'm so sorry, you must be heartbroken...but it sounds like the best possible outcome under the circumstances. He'll have a wonderful life!


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Sorry about the outcome, but it sounds as if he went to a good home.


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## mazza (Jun 11, 2010)

Glad to hear that the other dog will make a full recovery, but its out of order trying to blame him for something he hasn't done (accusations of trying to attack the kids)


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## White German Shepherd (Jun 8, 2010)

you said what your problem was yourself, when you 1 on 1 private train him, he is missing out on the socialization that he would get during group obedience.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I am sorry that you could not keep him, but hopefully his new owners will be able to give him the extra training he needs. 

Not a big fan of all that acreage because too many people let dogs run without keeping them from running off the property. But whatever. 

It sounds like you went the extra mile. I am glad the other party did not persue legal action against you.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I can imagine giving up a dog because of an attack on a human, but an isolated attack that is questionable on another dog? I think the OP went well above and beyond. What happens between dogs is just that. I'm not judging in any way, just think that this is incredibly sad. People suck sometimes!!


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## Cluemanti (Jun 25, 2010)

Sorry to hear but sounds like he went to another good home.


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## trish07 (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear.....that is sad....but hopefully, he can have a second chance in what seems a wonderful place. All my best wishes.


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## Eva von Selah (May 7, 2010)

Just terrible you had to give him up. You did all you should and then more! 

My two-year old, Eva, loves every one and every dog. Babies, kids, puppies, senior dogs - she is wonderful with all of them, but my new girlfriend brought her nine-year old female Husky, Luna, over for a walk and they seemed fine together at first and Eva got close to say "hi" and Luna went "rahrahrahrahrah" in Eva's face and Eva took that as aggression got into a little snarl with Luna. We pulled them apart, zero damage to either, and they haven't seen each other since. Her dog was never socialized as Eva was and Eva 'reacted' to Luna's agression.


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## noelle (Jun 26, 2009)

I understand those who think I went wrong with the 1:1 classes, I only did this later, after doing basic group OB. Unfortunately, after Roo demonstrated such severe dog reactivity no group classses were willing to take him further.....
As for being placed on an acreage.....he is going to be going under further training, and the owners use a undergound fence/collar system. Well, it may not be ideal I still feel that at least he has a chance at a good life & a future, where if he stayed with us he was really sentenced to death! 
I still take full responsibility, it is our fault & not his....therefore, I will do what I can to ensure he has a loving future!!! I love my boy & only hope for the best for his future!! I hope others posting here & new to the breed/forum learn from my mistakes & do better by their GSD's, they desreve sooooo much more!!!!.....GOOOD LUCK!!! They are an awesome breed and amazing dogs!!!!


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## noelle (Jun 26, 2009)

The good & bad aside........Roo was the most amazing dog we have ever owned!! Please listen & learn from those here...for us it was too little too late....
They are wonderful & amazing and most deserve more then we give!! 
They are not your average dog & they deserve the love, respect & training they need to be all they can be!!!!!


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