# Urgent (need advice)



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

I am facing the following situation where I look forward to the opinion of the boarders.

I am in talk with a breeder regarding a showline female gsd to be sent to me at 4.5 years of age on March 2015.

1. What is her child bearing prospects beyond 5 years of age?

2. The breeder today informed me that she will be coming to heat this november 2014. So he want to have litter before sending it to me on March 2015.

What should I do?


Looking forward to seggestions

SD


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

How many litters has she had already?

What is your goal with this female? Do you plan to have litters out of her?


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Two litters till now. This will be her third (if at all in November 2014)

I will breed her. I want to know whether it will be possible to get two litters out her in future?

Thanks

SD


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I was hoping they would only be selling her to you spayed as a great pet. 

As you've been learning over the past many months, finding a good breeder is difficult because actually BEING a great responsible breeder is so hard. 

I know here in the USA, the best breeders have their puppies sold before they are even born! Because they have such a good relationship in the 'dog world' and can really pick and choose to get the best new owners for each precious puppy that is born. It's not about the money. It's about bettering the breed and having specific goals PLUS the knowledge/skills/abilities to do this. 

While clearly everyone has to start somewhere, and having a good foundation bitch is important. There is SO much more (in my eyes) to make sure the best thing is being done for each and every puppy that may result from each and every breeding.

There's reason I'll never breed, too much for me. But if I did, it would start with maybe co-owning a bitch so I'd still have the help and support of my breeder. 

Do they have co-owning opportunities in your country?

Breeders Contracts

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070116144720AAfGUXU

Tips for Show Dog Co-Ownership Contract Agreements

From the Irish Wolfhound Club


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Yes, she should be able to have 2 more litters, BUT I would be highly suspicious of any proven brood bitch being for sale. Seen far too many people be screwed with females that are difficult breeders, kill their pups, need C-sections, producing joint issues, temperament issues, etc. This is one of the reasons why I raised my foundation bitch from a puppy and it took so long to find her. I didn't want to spend money on someone else's problem. Unless you have some very trusted contacts I, personally, would not take the risk.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks guys.

How much should a bitch that is spayed and sold as a pet only at 4 to 5 years should cost (It is from german import parents, father India champion several times, mother SZ, grand paretns Shh 3 and 1, and the bitch itself has been shown before breeding) ?

Can it still work as a watch dog at 5 to 8 years ?

This will important for my final decision. If I go for it I will assume worst case scenario.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

why are you buying her , what are your motives ?

look "How much should a bitch that is spayed and sold as a pet only at 4 to 5 years should cost "
and you also said 
"I will breed her. I want to know whether it will be possible to get two litters out her in future"

Seems like the current owner already has 2 litters , wants a third from her . Then sell and deliver her to you in March .
If she is bred this Nov . since we have arrived in Nov say she is bred Nov 20. Gestation then would be 2 months so Dec 20 , Jan 20 -- week of Jan 20 delivery date . Pups require her 7 weeks so that is Feb 20 , March 20 -- 

The poor dog is not given any consideration . Commodity .
Squeezing her for her ability to generate income . 

How do they care for her ?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

carmspack said:


> The poor dog is not given any consideration . Commodity .
> Squeezing her for her ability to generate income .


Used as commodity from both sides it seems like, poor dog.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

The breeder is asking for USD1800/- TO USD 2000/-

Given the parameters mentioned in my last post, is it a fair value of the dog?

Thats my query. I mentioned to him that this seems to be high price for me given her age.

Then the breeder mentioned that she can deliver two more litters and that has been factored into the price.

All I wanted to know whether these are technically correct arguments.

Breeding any dog right now is out of question for me at least for next semester.

But I do not want to pay for a prospect that is not there 

I hope this makes my is clear


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

It's a fair price. 

You never mentioned before that your goal was breeding. I think most would have given you different responses. 

Not sure you have the needed experiences yet to start breeding.

The older the bitch, the more issues arise. She, herself, is not titled or shown. So they are selling her based on ancestry. Ok I guess. 

I know you are in a different part of the world from me, So I can't judge what's available. 

But it's a fair price.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

It seems very clear to me: you are just talking about the money and that is not what a dog should be about. This is a living being and she should be adopted because you love her and want to give her a good life. This is not a savings plan to make money out of. You may think: 2 (litters) X 10 puppies, that will give me 20 X $1200. That's not how this goes. You will have to deal with vet bills, possible C section, losing this poor old mother dog, raising orphans, cost of feeding a pregnant and lactating female dog and the pups for at least 5 weeks. Then see how profitable your business is. 
I hope this thread gets closed.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

My aim is not to become breeder. I am aware of the cost and risks involved in ethical breeding. But while buying pup or a dog the price and factors involved in pricing are important for me. 

Thanks for the clarification the pricing issue.

Best 
SD


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## sehrgutcsg (Feb 7, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> It seems very clear to me: you are just talking about the money and that is not what a dog should be about. This is a living being and she should be adopted because you love her and want to give her a good life. This is not a savings plan to make money out of. You may think: 2 (litters) X 10 puppies, that will give me 20 X $1200. That's not how this goes. You will have to deal with vet bills, possible C section, losing this poor old mother dog, raising orphans, cost of feeding a pregnant and lactating female dog and the pups for at least 5 weeks. Then see how profitable your business is.
> I hope this thread gets closed.


+1

Get a Pup for the same amount. Train, train, train for 5 years. Forget about breeding, it's a heartbreak situation from day one to day 120 @ 4 months old on the litter. Who sells a quality breeding female based on the future value of potential litters. How does this 5 yr. old. dog fit into your present life. Sorry, I just don't see the logic behind the potential seller or the potential buyer except in dollars and sense.. SGCSG

Sehr Gut Isabella is doing great @ nearly 11 months.. Training like the wind and lovin' it!!


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

To your question about price:
Can't be determined unless you discover what her background is (not heritage but what she herself has done.) What performance titles has she earned? What conformation titles has she earned? What are here hip and elbow ratings?
What have the two litters done? Are they showing or trialing? How have they fared?

This is stuff that I would want to know whether I bought the dog spayed or intact. It would matter the most if I hadn't known the dog and fallen in love with her. I was under the impression that retired brood bitches were much cheaper.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

middleofnowhere said:


> I was under the impression that retired brood bitches were much cheaper.


Correct, but only from ethical breeders and then they spay them before selling them so they won't run the risk of their dog being breeding-abused.
Which breeder in their right mind would sell an intact breeding female that has produced valuable, healthy pups?
This dog is just being used like dairy cattle as in "Yeah, you can still get some money out of her". What are your plans with her after getting rich?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

The price seems a bit steep to me for a bit older dog that you do NOT want to use for breeding. I was initially just thinking they were letting her have her last litter, then were going to spay her and give you the opportunity to own her. With their goal to just find a great home for this bitch that gave them great puppies but now would be retired to be a good dog for someone.

That said, I have no idea what GSD's run for (price wise) in your country. If the price you mentioned is the same as a puppy then I know it's too much....


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