# Would appreciate your opinion on this possible breeding



## Oldschool (Sep 23, 2011)

Could someone with knowledge of working bloodlines be kind enough to give their opinion on this planned breeding. Thanks.

Male
Trojan von der Staatsmacht ? working-dog

Female
Krone Jipo-Me ? working-dog


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## Oldschool (Sep 23, 2011)

Bump


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I can only speak towards the bottom/female line of this pedigree... but, it should being some nice biddable dogs with intensity and enthusiasm for work. This is coming from Tina's line through Dargo and of course then Grim. 

I also really like Kerry and have heard he produces large dogs but that he can also be known to reduce HD in his progeny.

I think this combination is nice, and would not hesitate to have a pup out of Kery and Gina... as for the combination you are asking about, I would need to know more about the top pedigree to predict what you would get.. will leave that to the experts.

ETA: The male's pedigree has some nice dogs, Nick, Orla, Gerry, Cliff, Hutch, etc.. To me, this looks like a nicely thought out pedigree and would ask the breeder what they are trying to accomplish with this breeding.


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## Oldschool (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks very much Elisabeth for your input.

The breeder is looking to produce versatile working dogs that fit well into families. 

OS


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

My opinion in regards to the bottom line only (because I am not too sure on the top to be perfectly honest, just know enough to know those dogs and basic information on each) is that this may be a bit more than what the average family may want as a family pet. I would think these would be higher energy dogs with pretty nice drives with the ability to be pretty intense if their drives are anything like what the pedigree represents on the bottom. Not saying it wouldn't work with the right family, just that I hope they are being placed accordingly.


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## Oldschool (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks again Elisabeth.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Not crazy about it - especially for family pets unless the dog is not expected to do much more than sit, down and walk on a leash....I would hope the DDR elements may balance out the elements of stupid sharpness - ie quick to retaliate, lack of biddability...but some combos there I would not want or would do....this is both in the sire and in the combo.

What you see is NOT always what you get in breeding. Two very nice individuals can produce pups that really surprise you as they grow up, and not always in a good way.

Lee


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Lee, can you elaborate on this and where you are seeing this come from (ie. which dogs or pairings in the pedigree).



> especially for family pets unless the dog is not expected to do much more than sit, down and walk on a leash....I would hope the DDR elements may balance out the elements of stupid sharpness - ie quick to retaliate, lack of biddability


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Elizabeth - the PROBLEM with pointing out a specific dog in any pedigree is that it starts a HOLY WAR - because people's dog HAVE that dog in their pedigrees and they love their dogs....

Some dogs are prepotent and some just fill a space in a pedigree.....dogs like Fero via Troll and Timmy....Troll via Aly and Yoshey....Mink via Crok and Lewis..Timmy via Nick...These dogs were prepotent and qualities carry down through generations...AND, at least one of these dogs is going to be in probably over half the dogs' pedigrees owned by posters here....make a less than admirable statement by NAME - and the uproar begins....

In this pedigree, I know the owner of the dam of one well known male....they got a beautiful V rated male from her, one to drool over, but his temperament is not what I would use in breeding, and the male in the pedigree therefore gets his temperament and resulting reputation from both sides. I have talked to people who bought pups from the dog, thought about breeding to the dog etc. So with that dog and a combination on the dam's side, I would be wary of having a happy social dog....it is a risk not a given, and depends on your acceptance of that risk.

When I KNOW a dog is severely human aggressive, or nervy, or dog aggressive or produces bad elbows or back problems and has passed it on to a large percentage of his pups - and there are 2 or more of those dogs in a pedigree or the litter is line bred on one of these dogs...then I am wary and will urge caution. I have known of some litters of two very very nice dogs who just did not "click"....going way back, before I ever bred a litter, there was a breeder who bred to a top competition male....Almost EVERY pup in the litter was PTS by 2 for hip/elbow issues. The female had had other litters with no issues, as had the male....the breeding was repeated and the breeder kept every pup to x-ray at 6 months old, and again, PTS most of the litter. I was a friend of someone with a pup from the first litter who had borderline hips and Gr2 elbows. I had seen a few of the littermates disappear off the grid....this was back in the days of dog.rec type lists, pre Yahoo groups and forums....so I know that those pedigrees do not mix! (disclaimer - example only - those dogs are NOT in this pedigree!)

Lee


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

It's a shame for those trying to learn that people put up such a fuss but totally understand what you mean. It can cause a war where a war shouldn't be... good/bad, things need to be discussed openly to help the progression of the breed, too bad we can't do it in a open forum specific to the breed without panties being in a bunch. 

Thanks for the reply though, always appreciated.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The other thing people do not take into consideration, is that in Germany/Europe, often competition and breeding
dogs are kept in kennels, let out for some exercise and training. They are not, for the MOST part, house dogs. Extolling the virtues of many dogs based on what they have done in competition, trained by experienced people with easy access to good helpers and clubs, when a buyer's level of experience and resources are very different is really not fair to the buyer or the dog. If the person has alot of experience and is in a club, he has the knowledge of his peers and contacts to draw upon. Many a dog will succeed in one person's hands and be a total failure in another ones.

Lee


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I STRONGLY agree with your post.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Lee, great info on so many levels which is very thought provoking.



> The other thing people do not take into consideration, is that in Germany/Europe, often competition and breeding
> dogs are kept in kennels, let out for some exercise and training. They are not, for the MOST part, house dogs. Extolling the virtues of many dogs based on what they have done in competition, trained by experienced people with easy access to good helpers and clubs, when a buyer's level of experience and resources are very different is really not fair to the buyer or the dog.


Yes! Anyone looking for a companion GSD should be certain to acquire the pup/dog from a breeder whose dogs & bitches have an extensive history of succeeding as pets. These GSDs might succeed in the show ring, IPO, LE, SAR, etc but they should also be loving, involved family dogs who are temperamentally well suited to the rigors & challenges of children, neighbors & other pets.


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