# To Vaccinate or Not? - Leptospirosis/Bordetella



## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

From what I have researched so far, these 2 vaccines are completely optional, and both are generally recommended against.

Our vet is consistently asking us if we have decided on these, as they'd like to see Jazmyn receive both. We received another call this morning asking us to book Jazmyn is for the shot.

I've heard horror stories about reactions to the Lepto vaccine, and I know the Bordetella vaccine only covers a few strains (2 out of 8 I believe?).

My gut feelings are to say no to both at this time. We'll do Bordetella if we ever have to board Jazmyn, or if obedience school requires it. They highly recommend both shots, especially Bordetella if we'll be visiting the dog park (I don't think we will be anytime soon).

I live just outside of Toronto, Ontario and am not sure if Lepto is a big issue in my area.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You don't need Bordetella (kennel cough) unless you are boarding. How bad is Lepto in your area? What are the chances of your dogs getting it? I won't give it to my dogs, to many allergic reactions from it.


----------



## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

Molly got sick after getting the lepto shot she had a bad reaction to it! No more lepto shot for this girl!


----------



## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

Kaos had neither Lepto or Bordetella and will not unless she is boarded and they insist on the Bordetella.

The place where we are doing classes at no longer requires Bordetella which I found very interesting and was thankful for. 

They also no longer require vaccinations with the exception of Rabies for adult dogs that train there!

I had a long email conversation with the owner when I was looking into classes. She breeds Giant Schnauzers and said that when they quit using the puppy vaccines that included Lepto she no longer had her "quiet puppy day" the day after vaccines.


----------



## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i only ever get the shots legally required in our area and that's rabies every 3yrs for the young guys. once they're 7yrs old they don't get anything at all. i've never had any other problems. they always get too sick from the innoculations. 

dw


----------



## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

It also depends on what your dog is exposed to. If you go to dog parks, I would lean towards the shots, if not, evaluate your risk factors and base your decision on that. I know in CT there is a horrible fungal/viral infection that's starting to spread in Eastern dog parks, causing multiple warts to grow in the dog's mouth until surgery is needed. Our veterinarian said these are the first cases of the disease he's seen in the 30+ years of practice, outside of school.


----------



## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

I don't think that we'll be attending the dog parks (Jazmyn is dog reactive, so probably not the best) BUT she will interact with dogs that do attend the parks (my sisters lab, neighbours GSD, etc).

We do live near a ravine, and will be taking her for hikes on trails/in the woods now that the weather is warmer.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

My dog is exposed to lots of other dogs and he has never been vaccinated for bordetella or lepto. Lepto is very prevalent around here (because of the large rat population) but I know the symptoms and am vigilant in watching for it.


----------



## kiya (May 3, 2010)

Since I live in the "country" with a lot of critters passing thru my yard, raccoons, opossum, deer, woodchucks you name it we have it. I do give the Lepto shot. One of the highest risks for lepto is if your dog drinks from contaminated water source from wildlife. 
I don't board my dogs so I don't do the other shot.


----------



## kiya (May 3, 2010)

*Lisa* said:


> We do live near a ravine, and will be taking her for hikes on trails/in the woods now that the weather is warmer.


In the trails by me there are puddles never go away, I used to let my other dogs off lead but I always put them on leash when we were getting near them so they wouldn't drink. I don't let these 3 off lead.


----------



## GregK (Sep 4, 2006)

Lepto for sure!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Info on Bordatella: Kennel Cough

Some info on Lepto: CanineLeptospirosis

Just so you can see what you are potentially getting into. 

Personally, if I have a healthy adult dog, I don't worry about kennel cough. Of course, mine are exposed to sick fosters all the time and are super immune by now. I still don't let them drink out of shared water bowls outside the home, and they don't have a lot of close contact with dogs other than the ones I bring in. 

I also do not use the kennel cough vaccine on the puppies I foster, because generally, coming from a shelter or bad situation at their "breeder" their immunity is low already and I try to boost it. Healthy puppies, I don't know! However, KC can get worse...so you have to consider that. If you vet your dog well and quickly, and have a vet that understands KC, then...still your decision! 

Lepto concerns me greatly. It is deadly and can be passed on to humans. It is in the ground and water. My dogs are not allowed to drink from puddles (I always think giardia too - not sure about that) and I try to stay away from places with a lot of standing water. 

Lepto is also something you can ask your vet about incidence. I was just talking about the vaccine with one of the vets my dogs see last week. About - should you do it 2x a year if you do it? Is it safe? (the one they use, she says, has lower reaction rates than others) All of that being said, I still do not use it HOWEVER - any time any of my dogs are sick, the first thing I tell the vet is that I do not do Lepto vaccines so that they are aware of, and look for that, right off the bat.


----------



## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

Thank you for that information!

We're comfortable with our decision to not do the Bordetella vaccine. If in the event we ever need to kennel, or school requires it, we will, but right now our training school doesn't need it so we'll wait.

Lepto is concerning to me. We want to enjoy being outside/hiking/at the cottage, so the thought of the vaccine to help prevent a potential problem is making me want to have the vaccine done, however, the reactions to the vaccines are also very daunting. So far, Jazmyn hasn't had any reactions to her 8, 12 or 16 week DHPP or her rabies shot, but you just never know. (She had her 16 week shots + rabies on March 3rd).


----------



## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

We give both these shots ( I think they might be combined actually.) Our dogs (any dog really) is notorious for drinking out of puddles. We have had no reactions and would rather be safe than sorry. Never vaccinate if your dog has an infection, is worn down with allergies, or has a compromised immune system.


----------



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I give my dogs both of the vaccines as they go to work with me and see other dogs frequently. I think the bordatella vaccination is one of the more iffy ones, as I have seen maaaany dogs catch KC with the vaccine and all it does is throw owners in an uproar about how they got sick WITH the vaccine. However, if an emergency came up and I needed to board, it is a good thing to have anyway as most places will not board your dog unless the bordatella vaccine has been given 3-5 days prior (my work, a week prior).

The lepto I would give personally. It is a scary illness and if you will be out with wildlife, which it sounds like you are, I'd rather take the risk with the vaccination.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Lepto definitely scary and I have known dogs who have died from it. You cannot always tell they have it until it is too late. ........ I struggle too because we have plenty of muck, rodents, and wildlife in areas where we have to search so keeping the dogs out of it is NOT an option. Thins is, it is only good for 6 months and only has a few of the known strains in it...........it is not a particularly effective vaccine.

Tasting the water is one way scent dogs locate odor too so it is not as simple as not letting them drink (though I do stop if the dog is driking as opposed to sampling (there is a distinct difference but it is still in their mouth.)

Beau has had his first lepto shot but I am not sure what I wll do going forward......we cannot avoid those areas. Some so bad I carry dawn in my truck and am planning on packing some lawn sprayers just for dog cleanup after working.

In any event my vets have though me sill for spacing out my vaccines by about a month each. You want to get lepto locally to get the right servovars. It is a regional blend.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

And you can also pick up lepto through a cut or a scratch like if you go through infected muck.


----------



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

I am a tad confused. I use the DHLPP vaccination which includes Lepto.. and I don't booster just the lepto after 6 months and have never been told to do so. Is it still only a 6 month vaccine if combined in the 5 or 7 way shot?


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Some of these threads are a real eye opener for me. I worked for a vet 20+ years ago. We gave DHLPP to our dogs every 6 months. When I stopped working for the vet we continued to give them once a year. As the years have gone by the shots are named differently. My local feed store has the 7 and 1 shot. I have no idea what is in it but every year I troop down to the store and get it and give it to the dogs so they are covered. Now I read only 3 years and some older dogs don't need at all. :shocked: I thought I was being a good doggie mama. 

My new puppy had his first shot from the shelter and she said to bring him back next week and she would give him the second one also. I think after that I'm going to take him to my regular vet and find out what she thinks and does with her own dogs. Rabies of course in mandated by local laws. Yearly for the first shot then every 3 years after.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

There is a lot of good info here.
https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf

And Dr Dodds who a lot of people follow
Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

Is lepto a problem in Arizona?
Most of the viral vaccinnes are coming up with 5 to 7 year to lifetime immunity.
When was the last time YOU had a measles shot or a diptheria shot?


----------



## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

All my dogs have the Lepto vaccine. My vet told me, years ago, that my dogs can be infected by coming in contact with infected urine from another dog. Plus, we live in the woods and I have all kinds of critters that come into my yard and a small stream that runs behind my property.


----------



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

Im not sure if it is a problem here, I just moved out in January. I upped my dogs vaccines when we got here because in Colorado during the winter we didn't see much parvo/distemper.. out here is a totally different story. 

We give the DHLPP vaccination every three years in adult dogs at my vet office. That's why I was curious about the lepto only being good for 6 months.


----------



## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

I spoke with my vets office and the receptionist/tech advised that they hadn't seen a case of Lepto in their office in quite a while. It doesn't seem to be a major issue in my immediate area, but considering the places we want to take Jazmyn, those risks may increase.

She had the DHPP vaccine at 8, 12 & 16 weeks, and rabies at 16 weeks (Lepto isn't included and is an option vaccine at our vets). After the initial set of puppy shots, DHPP & Lepto vaccines are annually and Rabies is every 3 years (or annually depending on the vaccine your vet offers).


----------



## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> There is a lot of good info here.
> https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf
> 
> And Dr Dodds who a lot of people follow
> ...


Thanks for the links. I did just learn about this the other day when it was posted in another thread.  

As far as I know it is not a huge problem, but we lived in rural Arizona and were always dragging the dogs off camping and to 4-h events at the county fairs and such. 

Now we are in nevada I don't think I have to worry much anymore. Nothing much lives here. No ticks, no flea's or so I've been told. I haven't seen any. High altitude combined with crazy weather apparently make it a not so good place to be for pests. Or humans IMO .


----------



## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

Bordetella is a worthless vaccine, IMO. My dogs have never been vaccinated for it and have never gotten kennel cough even though they interact with other dogs and go to the dog park all the time. From what I've observed working in a vet clinic, you're dog is more likely to get kennel cough from the vaccine then anything else.

I live in Arizona and I dont give lepto. It isn't really a problem here. If the risks of getting lepto outweigh the risk of possible vax reactions then I'd do it. Is lepto a viral or bacterial vaccine?


----------



## *Lisa* (Nov 20, 2011)

It's caused by the bacteria Leptospira


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

The lepto vaccine does not cover all strains of leptosporosis. The dog across the street got lepto and she had been vaccinated. The vaccine has a high rate of adverse reactions although I think the vaccine is now much better than it used to be. 

Like Jean's dogs, Rafi is trained never to drink standing water. He also isn't allowed to swim without my permission or eat things off of the ground. I think this kind of training as well as keeping a very close eye on your dogs is as important as vaccinating. 

Also, over-vaccinating can be very dangerous for your dog's health because it can cause a lot of health problems.  Vaccinating more frequently does not necessarily offer your dog more protection from diseases!


----------



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> Also, over-vaccinating can be very dangerous for your dog's health because it can cause a lot of health problems.  Vaccinating more frequently does not necessarily offer your dog more protection from diseases!



I am going to guess that this is in response to my post about re-vaccinating my dogs out here. I redid theirs as in Colorado I had bought my vaccines from a feed store and did them myself. Working out here at a vets office, I learned that you should not rely on products in pets stores, bought online, or through feed stores and that the manufacturer does not actually guarantee their product bought from such. Learning that plus knowing parvo and distemper are very common out here, I took the chance of redoing my vaccs. I had no adverse side effects.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think the current vaccine covers 4 of the 8 strains dogs are susceptible to while the old version covered 2. If you look a the AAHA guidelines though it recommends TWO doses 2 to 4 weeks apart and (1) I do not know if the 5 or 7 way has the new 4 servovar strain or the old one and (2) I have never had a vet do it that way. So is the one time shot any good for what worth it does have.

It is not just driking the water though. If they get a nick or a scratch and STEP in infected water they can get it.


----------



## Gilly1331 (Apr 16, 2011)

You need to look at your environment and your lifestyle. If you are not an avid outdoors person spending tons of time in the woods, swimming in public water holes, dog parks, or any place where your dog can come into contact with urine or standing water then you may not need the Lepto vaccine. If you are like me and hike 5+ miles a day in woods, swim my dogs in lakes, rivers etc, and have all kinds of crazy wild animals grazing in my yard then yes I would vaccinate for Lepto.

** We nearly lost our 2yr old male Zeus this past Christmas 2011 to Lepto. Apparently my "old" vet vaccinated my two girls but never vaccinated Zeus for Lepto and he was fighting for his life to the point my husband and I were called to come say goodbye bc they didn't think he would make it through the night. After several weeks in ICU Emergency Clinic with 24/7 nurse staff tending to him he started to improve and actually fight the Lepto. He blood counts for creatinine and BUN were both nearly triple their normal healthy levels. It was a terrible time and he is still recovering from this as we have to do blood pulls every other month. He is still 1 number above normal both BUN and Creatnine levels. He is now on a blood pressure med as well. He isnt able to be vaccinated for a year after his clean bill of health as his body had nearly shut down and introducing any vaccines during his recovery could be deadly right now. We had to do xrays, ultrasounds, ivs, iv meds, and so many other medical procedures while he was there. We had to open a carecredit card just to have a place to put all his expenses.

If it means paying for the vaccine and having a small reaction that can be handled by easy meds I would do it then go through **** again loosing my soul dog.


----------



## JeepHound (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi all! Just joined. Great topic!

Our pup came to us already having received the bordetella and the leptospirosis vaccines, so we didn't have much choice.

As others have mentioned, leptospirosis can affect humans (BTW bordetella can affect small children and those with compromised immune systems as well). We have 2 small children and thus all recommended vaccines are what our pup is going to get.

Luckily, other than the "fatigue" the following day, he has shown no significant reactions to any vaccines.

The argument that "my dog never had the vaccine and he/she has never gotten sick" is not a reason to forgo vaccinations. Polio is not something most people would become inflicted with nowadays yet we still give the vaccine. Same with influenza. Vaccines for our dogs really aren't that different. Vaccines are preventative, not re-active, measures. Vaccines aren't used to treat diseases, rather to prevent them.

The decision to vaccinate is a personal one, confounded by multiple variables (ie inside or outside dog? children in the home? urban or rural dog? etc etc)

Bordetella is not just for boarding your dog. If your dog is going to be around other dogs that may have it your dog could develop it just as well without ever having been in a kennel. Since I never know the status of other dogs my guy interacts with, its a preventative measure.

leptospirosis is just nasty stuff. I don't think any area is actual immune from it, though I believe it to be hard to find in colder climates.

In the end, I don't think there really is a definitive answer. Its what you think is best.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Hey JeepHound...where in PA are you?


----------



## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm all for vaccination against things worth vaccinating for. Giving the bordetella vaccine is like vaccinating against the common cold; pointless and not likely to cover enough strains to be effective. Not to mention since bordetella is a bacterial vaccine it likely won't even be effective for the full year.

I also think vaccinating every year for viral vaccines like DAPP/rabies is pointless and potentially dangerous when even AAHA states that it's been proven the DAPP vaccine is effective at least 5 years. Better to do your research then take the word of your vet all the time. If I listened to my vet I'd be vaccinating for DAPP and bordetella every year.


----------



## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

JeepHound said:


> The argument that "my dog never had the vaccine and he/she has never gotten sick" is not a reason to forgo vaccinations. Polio is not something most people would become inflicted with nowadays yet we still give the vaccine. Same with influenza. Vaccines for our dogs really aren't that different. Vaccines are preventative, not re-active, measures. Vaccines aren't used to treat diseases, rather to prevent them.
> 
> The decision to vaccinate is a personal one, confounded by multiple variables (ie inside or outside dog? children in the home? urban or rural dog? etc etc)
> 
> ...


For the record, unfortunately lepto is prevalent in many cold climates. 

Many people forgo the vaccine for the flu for the very same reason we choose not to vaccinate our dogs for bordatella. The flu vaccine is limited in the strains it covers and many people end up with a mild (and occasionally severe) case of the flu after receiving the vaccine. The same is true for bordetella. That particular vaccine is simply not very effective and the actual disease is usually quite mild. The vaccine often brings on symptoms of the disease. My dogs have been exposed to other dogs with bordetella and have not come down with it. If they did I would worry about the overall health of their immune system. 

The decision to vaccinate should be an educated one. I personally like to keep up with the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) Canine Vaccination Task Force guidelines as well as to have an in depth conversation with my veterinarian about particular risks in my area and risks from specific vaccines as well as cumulative effects of vaccines on the immune system, etc. 

In case it hasn't already been posted, here are the AAHA's Canine Vaccination Guidelines for 2011: https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf


----------



## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I only get the Lepto for Wolfie. He hasn't had a reaction, but I do make sure not to get a bunch of shots together. I get the rabies shot, or whatever he needs at the time, and then come back for the Lepto a month later.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

phone calls urging vaccinations are the veterinary clinic's way of "marketing" their services.

i'm another one who only gives vaccinations required by law (other than the original series).


----------



## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

katieliz said:


> phone calls urging vaccinations are the veterinary clinic's way of "marketing" their services.
> 
> i'm another one who only gives vaccinations required by law (other than the original series).



Working at a vets office, you have no idea how frustrating it is dealing with parvo cases that could have been prevented. A woman bred her dog and parvo came in - 5 puppies and two of her adults are now on IV fluids and not doing well. It is more than just marketing.. parvo and distemper particularly are very real threats to dogs.


----------



## CelticGlory (Jan 19, 2006)

jocoyn said:


> There is a lot of good info here.
> https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/CanineVaccineGuidelines.pdf
> 
> And Dr Dodds who a lot of people follow
> ...


Thank you for the link, I admit I was confused on what to give. I plan on doing a lot of training when I get my pup with the local club I found a couple of months ago.


----------



## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

I haven't read the entire thread so this may have been said already. Bordatella is a waste and that's according to my vet. She wishes boarders would stop requiring it because it is worthless.

I haven't done lepto in years. I had a maltese years ago that had a bad reaction and haven't used it since though I think you have to evualuate your risk to make that decision.


----------



## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have heard that small dog breeds are Way more susceptible to lepto vaccine problems but then who knows the long term damage.....it is really a fine line with risks on either side.


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

"this kind of training as well as keeping a very close eye on your dogs is as important as vaccinating"

totally agree ruth.

ps...shaina, i'm not talking about initial inoculations, i'm talking about the constant pressure by vet clinics to vaccinate yearly, for every vaccine. everyone (just about), now knows that's totally not necessary, and just a money-maker for the clinics...not to mention potentially harmful for our dogs.


----------



## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

katieliz said:


> "this kind of training as well as keeping a very close eye on your dogs is as important as vaccinating"
> 
> totally agree ruth.
> 
> ps...shaina, i'm not talking about initial inoculations, i'm talking about the constant pressure by vet clinics to vaccinate yearly, for every vaccine. everyone (just about), now knows that's totally not necessary, and just a money-maker for the clinics...not to mention potentially harmful for our dogs.


You'd be surprised how few people really know anything about vaccines. I'd say over 95%, if not more, of our clients vaccinate for everything minus rabies yearly. They never even ask about it being necessary. And of course I can't tell them anything.


----------



## Gigglymom (Mar 18, 2012)

"If it means paying for the vaccine and having a small reaction that can be handled by easy meds I would do it then go through **** again loosing my soul dog."

Hi am new here and found this board out of an unfortunate reaction my dog had to the Lepto Vaccine. We were talked into giving the Vaccine because of where we live and because we have children. Within 5 minutes of giving the Vaccine my dog went into anaphylactic shock. The Vet rushed him into the back gave him a steroid injection. He tested his blood and his levels were all over the board. The Vet couldn't make sense of any of it. My dog was not responsive for several hours. Finally after his bowles gave way and he threw up he started to show signs of coming around. We are on day three of recovery and he still won't eat. He is however drinking water and going to the bathroom normally but he is not the same dog we brought in for Arthritus check up. I wouldn't call this a "small" reaction! If you google common reactions to the vaccine you will find that Anaphylactic shock is very common. One thing we are watching for now is reneal failure. 

There is a lot good information posted pn this string. However one peice missing is that even if you do vaccinate your dog he can still be a carrier and can still infect other dogs as well as you. 

Trust your gut and inform yourself before you vaccinate. I wish we would have but we were pushed into it and trusted our vet.

Pet vaccination warning. Severe adverse reaction to immunization


----------



## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

I personally have always gotten the Lepto shot for my dogs, I take my dogs everywhere I go which includes outdoor areas where multiple wild animals frequent

I never did the KC because I never board my dogs, but after going to the dog park for several months I decided to go ahead and include it with her yearly visit. It was a good thing I did, less then two weeks later both of my sister and brother in law's dogs came down with KC, they were visiting a different dog park then the one I usually went to. They ended up spreading it to my parents two dogs as well after just one visit, all four dogs were sick for weeks. Never again will I NOT do it, I like going to the dog park way too much to chance it again


----------



## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

Caitydid255 said:


> It also depends on what your dog is exposed to. If you go to dog parks, I would lean towards the shots, if not, evaluate your risk factors and base your decision on that. I know in CT there is a horrible fungal/viral infection that's starting to spread in Eastern dog parks, causing multiple warts to grow in the dog's mouth until surgery is needed. Our veterinarian said these are the first cases of the disease he's seen in the 30+ years of practice, outside of school.


Have not heard anything about this. Where in CT? I am in the northwest corner..... is it just in eastern CT?


----------



## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i have never liked the idea of dog parks. all i see are accidents (of many different kinds), waiting to happen. to each his own.


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I don't ever do the lepto or bordatella. I will obviously always have to do the rabies because its the law, but sometimes I wonder about the distemper. I really believe that both the rabies and distemper shots build up in the system and after a few years, neither are probably needed. I think its important to get the puppies the series of distemper shots and initially that is where the protection begins. Well it really doesn't matter what the opinion is because without the shots the dog can't have any surgeries, go to dog parks, school, doggie daycare, etc.


----------



## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I don't ever do the lepto or bordatella. I will obviously always have to do the rabies because its the law, but sometimes I wonder about the distemper. I really believe that both the rabies and distemper shots build up in the system and after a few years, neither are probably needed. I think its important to get the puppies the series of distemper shots and initially that is where the protection begins. Well it really doesn't matter what the opinion is because without the shots the dog can't have any surgeries, go to dog parks, school, doggie daycare, etc.



there are titer tests that can be done that checks the level of efficacy of the current blood immunity. if the immunity level is w/in the required percentages then the license can be renewed for up to three years, legally w/in some states. Texas is one of them, i'm not sure how many others are like that. below is a link that discusses this titer test. 

The Vaccine Controversy

dw


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Dragonwyke said:


> there are titer tests that can be done that checks the level of efficacy of the current blood immunity. if the immunity level is w/in the required percentages then the license can be renewed for up to three years, legally w/in some states. Texas is one of them, i'm not sure how many others are like that. below is a link that discusses this titer test.
> 
> The Vaccine Controversy
> 
> dw



I haven't read the link yet, but that is interesting..is it for rabies and distemper or just rabies. Thank you


----------



## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I haven't read the link yet, but that is interesting..is it for rabies and distemper or just rabies. Thank you


this particular one is for rabies. 

dw


----------



## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Dragonwyke said:


> there are titer tests that can be done that checks the level of efficacy of the current blood immunity. if the immunity level is w/in the required percentages then the license can be renewed for up to three years, legally w/in some states. Texas is one of them, i'm not sure how many others are like that. below is a link that discusses this titer test.
> 
> The Vaccine Controversy
> 
> dw



So this is actually very interesting and not something that many people know about and I will be researching this.


----------



## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

i don't know if alot of ppl know about it or not. but they should. vaccines are very dangerous things. both for our children and for our animals. both of them have no one but us to protect them. there are alot of reasons doctors and vets want people to bring in their children and animals for vaccination. and it doesn't have anything to do w/their physical well being. 

there are many people involved in trying to make known the dangers of vaccination toxicity. both from the vaccine itself, the medium the vaccine is grown in, and the solution the vaccine is liquified into in order to inject/inhale/swallow. but there are also a great many people w/alot more money keeping the vaccines on the market and popping us all w/alot more toxins than we can keep track of. so it IS up to us become responsible caretakers and patients and know for ourselves what we are putting into our bodies and those of the ones we are responsible. 

dw


----------

