# Vet told me I need to switch Bella food to Natural Balance help ??



## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Is there anyone in here who feeds their puppy natural balance ??? I read online that it's not great. Bella is having food allergies is there any food out there that would help her with that also with good protein ?


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Where did you hear that it isn't that great? I've heard it's very good dog food by many people including a professional dog trainer and a dog nutritionist.


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## sourdough44 (Oct 26, 2013)

I think there are a lot of 'upper mid' choices available. Many aren't found at Wal-Mart or the grocery store. It's mostly the ingredients, percentages, and the trace minerals and vitamins.

You can cross reference yourself. There are websites setup to rate dog food, and food for German Sheperds exclusively.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Nikitta said:


> Where did you hear that it isn't that great? I've heard it's very good dog food by many people including a professional dog trainer and a dog nutritionist.


It's just reviews online that I read


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient is another option. We tried both Nature's Variety and Natural Balance. 
Although Nature's variety is the better quality food our girl prefers Natural Balance when she doesn't eat RAW.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Would you consider feeding her a commercial raw diet that is balanced? If she improves you can either have her stay on raw or gradually test good quality kibble brands (start with the smallest bag so you don't waste any when she doesn't respond well to it).


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

wolfy dog said:


> Would you consider feeding her a commercial raw diet that is balanced? If she improves you can either have her stay on raw or gradually test good quality kibble brands (start with the smallest bag so you don't waste any when she doesn't respond well to it).


Honestly I don't know what a commercial raw diet is. I'm a first time owner so if you could explain to me what it is I would really appreciate it


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Springbrz said:


> Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient is another option. We tried both Nature's Variety and Natural Balance.
> Although Nature's variety is the better quality food our girl prefers Natural Balance when she doesn't eat RAW.


Thanks I'm going to look into it


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

What are Bella's symptoms? What is the protein source in her kibble?


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> What are Bella's symptoms? What is the protein source in her kibble?


She's starting to scratch her self a lot. I mean way more than the normal. The vet and I checked for fleas and ticks she has neither. This morning she didn't want to eat her food and the last time Bella turned down her food was when she just didn't want it anymore and that's when I was feeding her pedigree


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Chicken,chicken mean, turkey meal


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I have had great success with Natural Balance. I had a pup that was, we suspect, allergic to chicken, we switched her to Natural Balance, Sweet Potato and Bison, the protein was low but he allergy symptoms when away and she loved it. Did very well on it in the time we had her. 

Titan, my 5 year old has had food allergies all his life. We finally figured out which and found the only food on the planet (I'm sure of it,  ) other than raw or home made, that didn't have a single one of his allergens... with very goo nutritional balance.. Canine Caviar:

http://www.caninecaviar.com/

He has been on it for about a year now and we have no issues at all. We switch between Open Meadow and Free Spirit, again with no issues. What I like about them is that their ingredients are different than what I would normally see in other foods.. and at the bottom of the ingredients list is a link to take you to a page that goes into detail on each ingredient and why they use it in their food. 

We haven't found a retailer that sells it so we order online from www.chewy.com

Check it out


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

wyoung2153 said:


> I have had great success with Natural Balance. I had a pup that was, we suspect, allergic to chicken, we switched her to Natural Balance, Sweet Potato and Bison, the protein was low but he allergy symptoms when away and she loved it. Did very well on it in the time we had her.
> 
> Titan, my 5 year old has had food allergies all his life. We finally figured out which and found the only food on the planet (I'm sure of it,
> 
> ...



I'm definitely about to look into all those after I write this my only fear is she lose the nutrients that she gets now blue buffalo has done her so good until now


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Titan, too, was on Blue Buffalo and loved it. He loves Canine Caviar also  Just do a side by side comparison. Worst case scenario, you can always go back to what you were doing before. You'll never know until you try something else!


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

wyoung2153 said:


> Titan, too, was on Blue Buffalo and loved it. He loves Canine Caviar also
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm loving what I see about the canine caviar open meadow ! Has Titan gained weight off this ?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

ILoveBella478 said:


> I'm loving what I see about the canine caviar open meadow ! Has Titan gained weight off this ?


Yes actually, one of the reasons we started wondering about food allergies was because he was also losing a ton of weight.. like 15-20 lbs almost. He gained it all back. He's a healthy 90 lbs, lean and our perfect balance of food, is 1.5 cups in the morning and 1 full cup in the evening. During time when he is exerting more energy it's 2 cups in the morning, 1 at night. While he was gaining weight back, we had him and 4 cups total each day.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

wyoung2153 said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm loving what I see about the canine caviar open meadow ! Has Titan gained weight off this ?
> ...



Sounds great I'm going to call the local pet store see if they have it. I just don't want her to start losing weight either because she's taking in less protein


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Sounds great I'm going to call the local pet store see if they have it. I just don't want her to start losing weight either because she's taking in less protein


Less protein won't cause her to lose weight  Amount of food will. 

My girl that was on NB was on a 20% protein and she was 80 lbs at 6 months old.. she was Boerboel.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Pet store doesn't have it I'll have to go with something else for right now because she doesn't want any part of the blue buffalo but I definitely want her on the canine caviar


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

My pet store have natural balance so I'll have to go with that


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

You can order it online.. and it gets to my house within 5 days usually. I order off Chewy.com


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

Both of mine are on Natural Balance. They love it. I tried Blue Buffalo. Jas quit eating and Xerxes got sick. They don't sell it around here either. I order mine from Amazon.com. I have preferred membership so shipping is free.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Nikitta said:


> Both of mine are on Natural Balance. They love it. I tried Blue Buffalo. Jas quit eating and Xerxes got sick. They don't sell it around here either. I order mine from Amazon.com. I have preferred membership so shipping is free.


Online shipping for dog food is amazing.. LOL I didn't realize until I had no other choice.. I wouldn't go any other way. Lol.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Nikitta said:


> Both of mine are on Natural Balance. They love it. I tried Blue Buffalo. Jas quit eating and Xerxes got sick. They don't sell it around here either. I order mine from Amazon.com. I have preferred membership so shipping is free.


How is their weight and energy? I read it's low in protein ?


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Chicken is a common cause of allergies for dogs. If you're not sold on Natural Balance, find another food that doesn't have chicken in it and see what happens. 

You can look online and see what your pet store carries (I'm assuming your store is either Petco or Petsmart, if not, you can call them and ask what they carry), then check out the websites for the brands your interested. You'll be able to see the ingredients and the nutritional guarantees. You could also check out dogfoodadvisor.com. Good luck!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't know . Canine Caviar didn't impress me the way I expected to be impressed by wyoung's endorsement.

I found the blog hangout #14 dealing with salt and garlic very clumsy . 
Garlic --they said to use a plastic crusher because stainless steel absorbs the vital ingredient in garlic , which would be allicin , which they did not mention. It is the allicin which makes garlic the herbal penicillin antibacterial , antimicrobial.
Well stainless steel doesn't absorb much, if anything!?!
Plastic does . 
Anyone with even the most minimal kitchen experience knows this . Store a salami in plastic container and you will have scent ghosts in there for life .
The discussion about electrolytes - this is taken from their discussion " Electrolyte function is basically like when your brain tells your fingers to move, something has to send the message and you need to have proper electrolytes in your body for that message to move properly. So the same with your pet, you want him to get up, you want him to move his left leg, move his right leg, he needs something to move that message."
What?

Electrolytes , sodium and chloride are not the only source . You would include potassium, magnesium , and calcium. These are your major contributors .
When dissolved in water , you are making a solution wherein you have a separation into positively charged ions and negatively charged ions . You now have an electric current which allows for intracellular and extracellular movement . Waste out of the cell, nutrient into the cell. Proper (blood) pressure and balance in the cells' internal and external environment. Salt (sodium and chloride) aide digestion by maintaining hydrochloric acid . 
Electrolytes regulate heartbeat and muscle function through contraction and relaxation, maintain the pH levels. It is all about the balance. He goes on to rant about salt in treats - yet salt levels seem high in the Free Spirit ingredient list "Chicken Meal, Pearl Millet, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Coconut**, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Coconut Oil**, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Sun-Cured Kelp, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Sodium Chloride, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, FOS or Fructooligosaccharide (prebiotic), Fenugreek, Peppermint, Taurine, Zinc Proteinate, Papaya, Rose Hips, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Anise Oil**, Thyme Oil**, Manganese Proteinate, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Selenium, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid."

more salt than papaya or rosehips?

Garlic & Salt in Pet Food - Canine Caviar Blog

founded by people looking for a job? Holistic Approach to Pet Health - Canine Caviar Blog

this is puzzling -- Fermentation Culture And Results - Canine Caviar

the trial is poorly conducted and vague .

how are dogs housed in metabolic units?

Dogs were individually housed in metabolic units and ate one of two 26% protein, 16% fat diets over a 12-day period. One diet contained a popular brand of probiotic, and the other contained the Canine Caviar Probiotic Fermentation Culture. 

The results which were 
"While the nutrient absorption from the two diets was not different, the diet containing our probiotic fermentation culture produced notable improvements in the amount and consistency of the dog’s stools. These are improvements owners will appreciate."

Well..... since we don't know what the other product was do you think the stool might have been different because of other (different) ingredients, having nothing to do whatsoever with the "special" fermentation product , since nutrient absorption was not different?

If you were to run a trial you would have things as similar as possible with the exception of the one ingredient that you want to test. Difficult to do because your base , THE DOGS, will not be identical . How you would do this is to provide the company product -- one WITH the special fermentation product , the other WITHOUT , maybe using a probiotic/digestive enzyme commonly found in other products . The base ingredients would be the same. Only then can you judge the impact of the special fermentation process. 
I don't see "it" on their ingredient list . I see "Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product" . Is that the "it" ? That is the probiotic in yogurt and kefir , dairy products . One probiotic -- that is poor . Here is a randomly chosen competing product ", dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract"
that one rated 3 1/2 stars .

Which brings me to the alkalinity discussion.

I don't see anything contributing to alkalinity . I don't see greens , phytonutrients, fruits , with exception of some alafalfa , split peas and papaya . These are in other brand products . 

Caviar for whom?

did you ask the vet why they made this recommendation.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Carmen, I appreciate the extensive research  As always  

While I didn't go into detail like that when I did I chose based of a few reason... I LITERALLY could not find a single food that is recommended on here that did not have one of the 7 allergens that Titan is allergic too.. this one, honestly, was the only food I found, other than raw or homemade, that he could have without be allergic. I also met a few people that have used the food and their dogs were doing very well with it. I liked the % they offered for their food in regards to nutrition. So I figured what the heck.. let's try it. Titan is doing very well on it... great coat, skin, stool, smell, etc. he is really thriving with it, compared to all the other foods he has been on. That's more why I am a fan of it and endorse it, so to speak. 

I did recommended it, unfortunately without really knowing why the vet was asking to switch the dog food, I just assumed it was allergies and these ingredients differ greatly on what you can find in most other kibbles, that I have found.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Wonder how the dog would respond if faced with some challenge or stress. 
Think of a boat that can only ride on mirror like water , add a ripple or two or a good wave , then how good is that boat?

what are your 7 allergens?

by the way , I took the time to look at this product thoroughly because I had never seen it before and was curious .


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Frankly, upper range dog foods = runny stools when I tried it. 
If you want a run-down on dog food, check out Whole Dog Journal.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

this isn't good Topic: PET OWNERS BEWARE OF CANINE CAVIAR DOG FOOD


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Honestly I don't know what a commercial raw diet is. I'm a first time owner so if you could explain to me what it is I would really appreciate it


They're typically frozen, either in nuggets, chunks, or patties, and you buy them by the bag. Nature's Variety is one brand, there's Stella & Chewey, and a few others. The independent pet stores in my area are stocking more and more variety, as demand has definitely gone up in the last few years. Maybe you can find them in your area? 

You don't have to worry about mixing or ratios, you simply thaw & serve. The ingredient lists are pretty short. I came across them when I was fostering a red heeler with all kids of weird habits and digestive problems. She would try to hide/bury kibble, and was significantly underweight due to the amount of stress she'd recently been through. She was so enthusiastic about the raw "hockey pucks", she chowed down and didn't try to hoard it or hide it. She gained enough weight to make my vet happy, blew her entire coat, and it grew back sleek and healthy. I buy bags from time to time for my 6 year old GSD, to mix things up and because she enjoys them. Good luck!


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I would look into Zignature or Acana singles if you don't want to do raw, both of those are limited ingredient foods but higher quality than Natural balance.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

carmspack said:


> Wonder how the dog would respond if faced with some challenge or stress.
> Think of a boat that can only ride on mirror like water , add a ripple or two or a good wave , then how good is that boat?
> 
> what are your 7 allergens?
> ...


I did see that review after the fact, I suppose I have no other justification other than it is working well for him. 

Honestly, he has been on other foods his whole life. He did really well on Fromm with only one of his allergens, salmon oil. I just felt it was my duty to do my best to really research and find a food that he could have, itch free. Nothing drastic happens with his allergies, just itching A LOT. If all else failed and I couldn't find one, I was prepared to live with it and figure out how to handle his itching in another method. 

His allergens are in this order--Rice, Turkey, Venison, Salmon, Eggs, Peas, and Oats.. the last 3 are all the same level. The trouble I was having with foods were, grain free meant no rice, but 99.9% of the time they replaced the grain with peas. There was always some form of Salmon oil in all the foods. If a food said "chicken" as their protein, it almost always had turkey n there as well.. as well as almost all the foods that were grain free had eggs of some form in there.. At one point we were on Fromm and had salmon oil.. he was doing well on that, little itching. 

I had experimented with raw a couple years go and it just didn't work for us. He lost tons of weight and we were up to 4 lbs. I don't have a butcher here, we live in a tourist community. He WILL NOT eat raw chicken.. just absolutely refuses. The kinds of meat we were buying (beef, lamb and pork) were getting too expensive. He was on a premade raw for a while but it too got too expensive for how much we needed, he was dropping weight like I'd never seen, and he was perfectly healthy. Once we got him back to kibble, he was good to go.. then the search for his allergen free food began last year when he was tested. 

I'm all for trying other things, so if you have suggestions, please share. This was just all I could do and find and it took me weeks to research and I looked at MANY MANY foods. 

As far as being faced with challenge or stress, I'm not sure what you mean.... Can you explain. I get the comparison with the boat, but not so much with his food allergies.. His allergies don't seem to do anything other than make him itchy, but no other temperament or health changes. He does well in new environments and while he has certain triggers for tail chasing, none seem to affect his gut.. So I am a little confused, sorry. 

Sorry OP, didn't mean to hijack your thread!! It's educational for me too!!


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

WIBackpacker said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly I don't know what a commercial raw diet is. I'm a first time owner so if you could explain to me what it is I would really appreciate it
> ...


Is commercial raw better than typical kibble sorry if that's a dumb question ? I'm just not trying to miss any corners


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

If you believe raw diets are better for your dog, then yes, the commercial raw foods are better than kibble. We're trying to switch to raw right now, but it's suuuuuper expensive to buy commercially available raw.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

Okay I like Acana but the problem is the Large Breed food first ingredient is chicken I want to stay away from that. They don't have any other large breed flavors. So should i go ahead and switch her to adult food ??


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

We never fed our puppy actual puppy food. He came home from the breeder on Fromm Gold Adult. Be careful to pick a food that doesn't have high calcium, and that has a good calcium to phosphorus ratio.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> We never fed our puppy actual puppy food. He came home from the breeder on Fromm Gold Adult. Be careful to pick a food that doesn't have high calcium, and that has a good calcium to phosphorus ratio.


I just don't understand why it's a big deal if puppies switch to adult food my vet recommended that I do that. So I just might do that; Are you saying Acana has a high calcium to phosphorus or are you saying it's literally good ? Lol


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I checked out the Acana formulas... It looks like some of them have a higher calcium level. I would feel comfortable feeding the Acana Singles Duck and Bartlett Pear formula to my puppy, but I personally think all the other formulas are a bit high for a growing puppy. I'm not a vet, vet tech, nutritionist or anything of the like, though, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt!


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

GypsyGhost said:


> I checked out the Acana formulas... It looks like some of them have a higher calcium level. I would feel comfortable feeding the Acana Singles Duck and Bartlett Pear formula to my puppy, but I personally think all the other formulas are a bit high for a growing puppy. I'm not a vet, vet tech, nutritionist or anything of the like, though, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt!


Lmao I'm no expert either that's why I'm stressing over here. I'm trying to make this puppy healthy it's been a fight ever since I got her. It sucks because I'm a first time owner. I always wanted to feed orijen but I never ever gave effort to smh. I'm going to look at the duck and Bartlett pear ingredient and compare it to what she been getting


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Bash has been on three different kibbles (about to start the fourth tonight- Canine Caviar) since we brought him home. He had giardia, and his gut has never really recovered. I feel your pain with fighting to get your dog to be healthy! Good luck in whatever you choose!


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I will say this, though... getting him on a good probiotic has made a world of difference. Actually, it's tremendously helped both of our dogs. If Bella isn't on a good probiotic/digestive enzymes, I highly recommend getting her on one!


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Is commercial raw better than typical kibble sorry if that's a dumb question ? I'm just not trying to miss any corners


I'm not really qualified to say one is *better*. At the time, I did some research, tried the commercial raw with that particular dog, and it worked very well. I wasn't worried that I was omitting any major nutrients, which would have been my biggest concern with a home-made blend. The biggest criticism I've heard regarding commercial raw blends is that all of the bone is already ground up, so the dog doesn't get the gnawing, tooth cleaning benefits.

I also agree with what Gypsy said, it is very pricey.


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## Cobe914 (Sep 29, 2014)

GypsyGhost said:


> I checked out the Acana formulas... It looks like some of them have a higher calcium level. I would feel comfortable feeding the Acana Singles Duck and Bartlett Pear formula to my puppy, but I personally think all the other formulas are a bit high for a growing puppy. I'm not a vet, vet tech, nutritionist or anything of the like, though, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt!


You'd be correct there! The pork and squash, and lamb and apple have wildly inappropriate calcium/phosphorous ratios for a growing pup. The duck is good though. The Pacifica regionals line (all fish) or the Ranchlands (all red meat) might also be good, if you're just avoiding chicken at the moment. I'm pretty sure the dogfoodadvisor website has a good calculator to help people out with those ratios. 

Natural Balance isn't bad... I'm a little concerned about being a Del Monte brand, and it breaks one of the first rules people learn of pet nutrition, in that meat should be the #1 ingredient. The starch/carb that they use is the most dominant ingredient in the bag. On the other hand, it's readily available and at the end of the day you have to cater to what works best for your dog. However I typically recommend it most to people that have a very lengthy list of ingredients that they need to stay away from. Just avoiding chicken wouldn't be too difficult within most brands of food. A lot of brands have stepped up to the plate for L.I. diets. Blue Buffalo has a limited ingredient line, nature's variety instinct. Unfortunately most of the companies I know are Canadian and I'm not sure how many of them are where you are.


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## Colie CVT (Nov 10, 2013)

I am a huge fan of Zignature. They have many different options, it not only is a novel protein, but it also doesn't have potatoes in it. When my pups were growing up, I tended to feed them adult or all life stages foods. My girl who has a nasty allergy to chicken is on Zignature. It was actually the dermatologist who I work with that recommended it. She also tends to recommend Earthborn too. Which is another food that I like. They have a food that specifically has no yeast for dogs who tend to be prone to the yeastys.

Just for a few other ideas.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

I went with natural balance for right now. Now I know the protein level is low is there anything I could put in the food to increase her protein intake ?


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