# Staph Infection? Nina



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Nina is my 10.5 yo black female GSD foster failure. Let me start by saying we are hoping Nina has a staph infection and I feel like maybe it really is that. 

Nina has never been as healthy as the rest of the pack. She was a puppy maker and was with her breeder (grandma's her mom type pedigree) for 7 years, they were no good and then with the family that took her to the shelter-also obviously not good. I got her at 8 and have never felt she has achieved the health level that I see in the others. Today the vet said it even looked like she had a torn ACL way back that was never addressed and allowed to heal improperly. Jeesh.

She's got a good appetite, been as sweet as always (she is painfully sweet) but I noticed a sore on her leg Sunday and took her in to the vet today.

I thought it was possibly a lick thing, but it was open. And scary looking-she had gotten or all the hair had come off of it. And the smell was different.

She got her leg shaved-it's on her hock/ankle-dime sized maybe. She got her butt shaved to see if there was anything there (we had legs/hips and butt checked and even sniffed on 6/11). And she has what we really, really hope is a staph infection on that leg and along the bones that hurt when you ride a bike-if a dog rode a bike. And when I was waiting for him after the girls shaved her-I checked her out more and found some bumps on her lips.









I had her bloodwork run-the one machine is broken but the results they got back were good, so that's a plus and tomorrow or Wednesday I will get a blood count back.

She got 750 mg of cephalexin to take 2x/day (1500 mg/day). Recheck in two weeks. If not improved a culture or biopsy- can't remember what he said there. I feel SO bad for her. She must have been uncomfortable but she is stoic and sweet-so never a snap or a growl at me or any of the other dogs. 

I am going to call and ask if she should have anything for comfort. She has a soft cone on and is doing well with it. Maybe not well though-okay-I may need to get a better collar for her-like the bite not. 

So I am really hoping that it gets better fast. He said it seemed a little too patterned-more like staph.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## butterfingers

Sorry I don't have anything good to offer you other than I hope Nina gets better soon!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Awwww, thank you. 

She did pretty well last night. I am trying to keep the other dogs out of her business (so to speak) as much as possible. I am trying to think of some good things to get for her. She is the sweetest thing and was SUCH a good girl at the vet last night. She has the caution sticker but likes her vet (the tech girls she thought maybe she could let them have it?). 

I took her to Wendy's with her vet buddy, Bruno (he goes with the nervous dogs because he looooooves to be at the vet office) after for a plain cheeseburger.


----------



## angelaw

I'm hoping that a staph infection is all it is and that she gets better!!


----------



## elysianhunter

My girls are twisted, and in a good way. All three LOVE the Vet's office. What's a little needle stick (and not even that every time) compared to a nice long car ride, dogs and people to meet, and all kinds of attention, and a bit of vanilla ice-cream for good girlies, when we get home? It's party time for my dogs! I was absolutely elated when Heidi enjoyed her first trip and was even compliant for a blood draw. I know now that Heidi's very laid back and just sort of goes with the flow. She's mellow no matter where I take her which is a beautiful quality. I only wish my cats were so easy.

I really hope that all you're dealing with here is staph- if that's what's going on cephalexin should clear that up in no time. Poor baby. Skin problems seem to be so frustrating!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Thanks, Angela!

Tonya-Your dogs sound like Bruno-weeeee, vet office! The rest aren't quite so enthusiastic. I crack up at vet happy dogs though-it's so sweet. 

My #^&[email protected] cell phone didn't ring and put my vet straight to voice mail tonight at 7:40 (and their phones are off there). Her bloodwork all came back normal? Her RBC was lower, but in the normal range.


----------



## Tula

hmmm... no high WBC? I would think that if it was a staph infection, the WBC would be high for sure. Unless staph works differently for some reason??


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

That's what I would think-which scares me. My vet is at a different clinic today so I think I am going to make up a list of questions for him about Nina and Kramer and fax it over for when he gets back tomorrow.


----------



## LisaT

You know, Indy has had infection off and on over the last 8 years -- her last one resulted in a bone infection -- she has to go on abx for 6 months at a time when she does do abx, and her WBC sits at the bottom of the range. Max, who also has something that is helped by abx, has a WBC that has been decreasing over the last couple of years.

I would think for an acute infection, you would have an increased WBC, but apparently sometimes it doesn't work that way?

Lower RBC -- a bit anemic? If it's the percentages the vet was talking about, then there are more white blood cells now than red, which might indiciate something. If it's the absolute numbers on the CBC and not the percentage count, then it doesn't mean that. Did that make sense?

How do the gums and the tongue look? pale or nicely colored?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I think it's the absolute numbers. I am glad to hear (well, not glad, but you know) that there can be cases of regular WBC and infection. 

Anemia scares me with her right now-I really hope this is staph. The RBC is normal, just on the lower end of the range. Her tongue looks fine. Her gums are black-so hard to tell with her.


----------



## LisaT

Sounds like there isn't an anemia problem -- hopefully the abx will clear everything up!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

YES!

Here she is with her soft e-collar (that seems to be helping a bit). 

I have pictures of the areas but don't want to post them-gross. I can PM them if anyone wants to take a look and give me an idea of what you see. 

Here's my sweet Nina!


----------



## Skye'sMom

Poor Nina.







Get better, Sweetie.


----------



## LisaT

What a pretty girl


----------



## arycrest

What a beautiful girl - hope she's back to normal soon!!!


----------



## Qyn

> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI have pictures of the areas but don't want to post them-gross. I can PM them if anyone wants to take a look and give me an idea of what you see.


Please PM them to me ... I have seen quite a few gross things on dogs and maybe it might be familiar - if not, no harm done.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Awww, thanks everyone. She asks for NOTHING in life-everything is a bonus to her. When she was my foster I actually lied (YES-LIED) to a very nice lady who asked about her. I was like...hmmm...Nina? Nina? Not sure who has her...don't know much about her. That kind of told me that I was a little too attached to Nina. Melinda busted me! I had to confess and the woman was actually very sweet about it. Nina isn't a family-type pet though but works well here. 

ANYWAY-Alison, I'll send to you. 

And good news!!! I faxed my question list to the vet last night and he called this morning and told me it is not uncommon to have a normal WBC in a skin infection. YAY! Made my day-I think my jaw unclenched for the first time in two days! 

She goes back August 6th for a re-check. 

Today less limping and she even wanted to walk around a bit. 

She goes in tomorrow to get her nails trimmed and I am sure he'll check things out then. 

Thanks again.


----------



## SunCzarina

NIna has a lovely face. I"m sorry she's not well and hope your vet gets it figured out tomorrow.


----------



## Tula

Jean, that is good news!! I'm assuming she has already started meds. Keep us posted on her progress!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I will-thanks, Tula!

She is getting 1500 mg of Keflex/Cephalexin a day (2/750 doses). 

Thanks to Lenny's thread I am giving her the yogurt and probiotic pills at different times from the antibiotics. 

BTW-her appetite is great, so that's good too. 

Jenn-thank you-I too think Nina's such a pretty girl. She has a very stocky build which I like-she's kind of like a bear.







Nothing dainty about her but she is so kind.


----------



## LisaT

Glad to hear of the improvement!


----------



## sunnygirl272

Yay on Nina....


----------



## WiscTiger

Jean, the Chephalexin seems to be the best choice for Staph infections and the 750 mg twice a day sounds about right for her size. How many total days is the perscription for?

If she is really itchy what worked good with Lakota was 3 days of Cortisone. I am not a big fan of Cortisone, but the few days really gave Lakota some relief, until the abx started to really kick in.

Nina looks like such a sweet loving gal, give her a hug from me and my gang.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

We are doing 30 days for the Cephelexin. I am glad to hear others have used it or know of it being used for staph. 

It seems like it was just POOF here all of a sudden. I found a couple of other sores on her chin today-the vet had seen them the other day though. She has her new inflatable donut thing around her neck and that is really working well. Hard to get in the car-but Kramer barked and scared her up and in. 

She got her nails trimmed and he checked her out-they don't look worse, so that's good. I gave him pictures of the infected areas I took on Tuesday for her file so that the vet she sees on August 6 (while he's on vacation) has something to compare. 

If they aren't clearing up/improving they will biopsy. I am very hopeful they will get better. 

Thanks too, Val-she loves the hugs-she is a very sweet girl-I wish I would have had her from when she was a puppy.


----------



## elviraglass

Sending good thoughts toward Nina

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## WiscTiger

Good glad to hear she is on the Abx for 30 days. Staph is very drug resistant and by not doing long enough treatments the first time around it just makes it that much more resistant.

Lakota had a biopsy and a bunch of blood tests. So I knew with him I could rule out both forms of Lupus and thyroid problems. His biopsy came back as a contact allergy. So I know his is a seasonal thing, by charting. I made logs and wrote down every thing, from treats to chews to foods to any change in the house to weather. 

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

Thanks, Elvi and Val. I am glad she's on the long-term abx. I am taking her back in on Monday for the re-check. I am not sure if that is when they will decide on the biopsy or not. 

Val-for the biopsy, do they have to be under or what? Do they do the skin punch type? Or is it like a needle or a scraping? I am nervous!

Also, was looking at what kind of things that might help in supplementing her, like salmon oil or flax seed oil or what? I read that thread on vitamins E&C and was way more confused after reading that than when I started thinking about supplements for this! 

link: http://www.nelsonvet.com/dog_allergies.html

Thanks!


----------



## bearlasmom

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

poor angel
she is such a beauty! She deserves only the best and it sounds like although it took her a few 'trials' with other families, she found her real life momma in you. You were meant to be together. Have you ever tried giving her slump when she doesnt feel well?

i make it for bearla and our Pit if they do not feel well. i mix, beef, chicken, broths, etc and cook them together and then cool it and give it too them. it helps raise their spirits i think and chicken soup has always done well for us, right?

i hope she feels better soon. does the vet think it could be caused by an alergy?


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

When Lakota had his biopsy, they did know him out. They cut a section of skin and Lakota had stitches where they took the sample. They sampled I think 3 areas.

I give Lakota Vit.E. I think I will try introducing some EsterC, when I have time to go read the how much E to C ratio.

I wouldn't try Flax, it is good if you dog can tolerate, but I think I have seen more itching with Flax. Never tried Salmon oil.

I would wait until done with the ABX before introducing anything new. Are you doing Probioitics?

Val


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

I see people talk abou probiotics and I know what they are in theory, but where to you get them specifically...i.e. at a pet store or are they human stuff from a Healthfood store. 

Any particular name brand...is it pills, powder, liquid?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*



> Originally Posted By: AvamomI see people talk abou probiotics and I know what they are in theory, but where to you get them specifically...i.e. at a pet store or are they human stuff from a Healthfood store.
> 
> Any particular name brand...is it pills, powder, liquid?


Your local good animal supply store would likely carry Prozyme. Dogzymes are good and less expensive. You can find them here: http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/DOGzyme.htm


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

I use a human grade capsule for the dogs, LOL and the humans.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

Bearlasmom-thank you for your very sweet post. I do believe I will make her some soup-that is such a great idea. Who doesn't feel better with soup-and it might even make some nice ice cubes for her to lick on. 

Val-thanks for the info. on the biopsy. At least she just got her bloodwork done already if they need to do one. 

I am using the probiotics. Our local grocery store had a bunch of them in the organic refrigerated section-I got one that has a few different -ophilluses! The one I got was a capsule. Thanks for the link, Ruth. I need to check that out. 

Question-can anyone see any reason why a staph infection would make a dog limpy/gimpy? She's having trouble today and I have a call in to the vet office, and gave her a buffered aspirin in the meantime. I am hoping to pick something up for her tomorrow-maybe tramadol. Poor Nina.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: AvamomI see people talk abou probiotics and I know what they are in theory, but where to you get them specifically...i.e. at a pet store or are they human stuff from a Healthfood store.
> 
> Any particular name brand...is it pills, powder, liquid?
> 
> 
> 
> Your local good animal supply store would likely carry Prozyme. Dogzymes are good and less expensive. You can find them here: http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/DOGzyme.htm
Click to expand...

Enzymes (like prozyme) are different from probiotics. For probiotics, I get them from the refrigerated section from the health food store. My dogs do best on ones that contain acidophilous, bifidus and bulgaricus. There might be some specifically for pets, but I've never seen them refrigerated, and I prefer to buy the refrigerated ones. 

edit: btw, my mutts also get enzymes for humans rather than dogs


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

Both Prozyme and Dogzymes contain probiotics. 
http://ladyr.danebytes.com/PROBIOTICS.htm


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*

Oh, one of the vets called back and if Nina's limp isn't better tomorrow, she'll go on some Tramadol. The fact that I gave her buffered aspirin tonight made it so she couldn't get a NSAID. Darn!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Staph Infection? Nina/probioti*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowBoth Prozyme and Dogzymes contain probiotics.


They may contain probiotics, but if someone is looking for probiotics after an infection or abx, then I certainly wouldn't want to also add enzymes because you are adding something that you might not be able to stop later. 

Additionally, prozyme really is an enzyme product, not so much a probiotic product -- I can't seem to find a decent prozyme ingredient list -- do you have one that lists the probiotics in it? I can only find one that lists enzymes.

Dogzymes is a mix of enzymes and probiotics and I wouldn't recommend it for the same reason. I've never been a fan of the danelady products, but that's more of a personal thing.

Following an infection or abx, I would look for a pure probiotic, unless I wanted to started my dog on long-term enzymes -- that's a different question all together.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Supplements for Staph Infection? Nina*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> Question-can anyone see any reason why a staph infection would make a dog limpy/gimpy? She's having trouble today and I have a call in to the vet office, and gave her a buffered aspirin in the meantime. I am hoping to pick something up for her tomorrow-maybe tramadol. Poor Nina.


Is she limping on the affected leg or elsewhere?? If so, that could just be the skin pulling together as it is healing and it hurts to put pressure so she is easing that pressure. Poor pup - I hope she will soon be fully well.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*NSAID or Tramadol?*

I think it's mostly on that injured leg. It's hard to tell-she just looks so uncomfortable. 

Plus we have a problem with the Tramadol. Nina's on Elavil (every other day-low dose) just to help her-she was actually having night terrors at one point, and there CAN be the chance of an interaction. So the vet is printing out the possible side effects for me to watch and we are going to do a very low dose of the Tramadol. The offer was made for NSAIDS, but they worry me more with her (even though her bloodwork was good). 

POOR NINA! 

Now I am reading more and am confused re. tramadol vs. a nsaid.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

For any muscle pain, limp, bruising, etc. , you could try the homeopathic Arnica pellets (I like using the 30c potency). You can find them at any health food store.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

That's a good idea-can she have that with the other stuff too? I am thinking it might be good for the tissue too? Also can you use colloidal silver at the same time as you use antibiotics? Trying not to over or under do things. 

I decided to get the Tramadol anyway. The vet gave me information on serotinin reactions which was actually really interesting. The Tramadol seems to be helping her! I am so excited-Nina's been scaring me by isolating and just not moving unless she is made to go out to the potty. She hasn't even been seeking out affection. Just incredibly sad. Last night she was playing a teeny bit, and this morning she walked all over the yard and was wagging her tail. I think she may be a little buzzed with the serotonin cocktail she's getting, but it is so good to see her moving (not great-but with less discomfort) and with her silly face again. 

Very happy! She goes to the vet tomorrow.


----------



## Tula

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

oh, good news, Jean!! please continue to keep us posted! YAY for Nina!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

The Tramadol is helping a lot. She went to the vet with her donut on (I have to get the pictures off the camera-she's cute) and had a new vet (to her). He's this kind of gruff sounding older man and she's got the big orange stickers all over her file (will bite) and he gets down and starts combing her-LOL-boy did she fall for that. She was great with him. Made my day too to see her enjoying herself and getting loved. 

He thinks her infection is improving-from what the other vet told him and from what he saw/saw with the old pictures. It's likely going to be slow going. I think that's partly due to her overall general health never being "robust" like the other dogs. I'd like to try to add some things to help out with the infection if I can. 

He gave me a gentimyacin spray for her chin. It should help make it more comfortable for her. 

Her abx is up in 2 weeks, he said a re-check in 3, but I am thinking of asking for an extra week of the abx then (if not resolved) so if they need to keep her on it, she won't have an on and off thing with it. 

So after we were done I took her for an extra ride to Tim Horton's for a cookie. She was like "What the heck is this crap?" So Mariele got her cookie and Nina and Mariele got to split a burger. I am pretty well trained.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

That's fantastic that the Tramadol is working for her. And, it sounds like a sucessful trip to the doctors and a great "date" afterwards!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

I need to call the vet tomorrow to ask this question-

The staph infection appears to be improving *YAY* but is still visible-do you keep on abx until it is totally clear/resolved? Her recheck is not for one week after her Rx runs out. 

Update-
The Tramadol is still helping-I think she's got a monkey on her back.







She's been wanting to sit outside more and been trotting around the yard, which is great. 

I was thinking if they said no abx I'd get the colloidal silver going on her for that week...

Her chin is still ucky. That came on like gangbusters-from one little sore to a big chain. Sorry-gross!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

Sorry Jean but I am not a fan of Colloidal Silver.

I am a firm beliver in LONG term ABX for the Staph infection, even if things look better, the little bug can still be there and it will come back again in a short period of time. If you have a quick reoccurance, then the ABX were either not giving long enough or the wrong ABX.

I HATE anitbioitics, but have come to realize with the Staph infection I put my personal feeling on the back burner and do the treatment because it is best for the dog.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

That's what I was thinking, too. I figure as long as I can see it, it's there...I would rather have her on it for a couple of months. I will see if I can either get her in next week (a week early) or get an additional week of abx. 

Does anyone ever get their abx in liquid form? She's getting SO sick of the pills. 

Thanks!


----------



## Heidigsd

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*



> Quoteoes anyone ever get their abx in liquid form? She's getting SO sick of the pills.


I know what you mean, a few weeks back Heidi just refused to take anymore pills and I can't blame her









I never had this done but what about a pharmacy like this one, they can make flavored treats.

http://www.animalpharmacy.net/about_us.asp

Michaela


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Staph infection*

That's a good idea. There is a compounding pharmacy nearby, too! And I can use my Rx discount card...I will ask about this. Thanks. 

And the cat food worked this morning-duh-canned cat food is like ambrosia.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Staph infection*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANAnd the cat food worked this morning-duh-canned cat food is like ambrosia.


But is the reverse true, i.e. is dog food ambrosia for cats?







Seriously Jean, that's great news and I'd love to see new pics when you get them off your camera.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANThat's what I was thinking, too. I figure as long as I can see it, it's there...I would rather have her on it for a couple of months. I will see if I can either get her in next week (a week early) or get an additional week of abx.
> 
> Does anyone ever get their abx in liquid form? She's getting SO sick of the pills.
> 
> Thanks!


Right now, the Hooligans take 23 pills daily - 3 are chewable, one has to be "melted" in a little broth. 








Pill Pockets are a much loved treat with them and it makes my life easier EXCEPT for Mr. Ringer who will spit them out if he even thinks he detects that any type of medication is in one. So today, he chewed up and spit out most of his AM meds - so the boy had a flagyl and two amoxcillian capsules shoved down his throat, yet he took his Tramadol pills like a champ.

Kelly is another story. He's great about taking his meds - he gobbles up his pill pockets in a split second.







BUT, if for some reason he can't have pill pockets, it's impossible to force him to take his meds. I'd rather stuff a pill down a 'gators throat than try to give him one. He clamps his mouth shut and I can't force it open - he has jaws of iron. He's the only dog I've ever owned that I can't open his mouth.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> Does anyone ever get their abx in liquid form? She's getting SO sick of the pills.


Does dipping them in yogurt, or even mayonnaise help?


----------



## Avamom

*Re: NSAID or Tramadol?*

I put Apollo's staph pills inside his spoon full of pumpkin on top of his food....he gulps down the pumpkin before he even realized there are pills in there!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Marlene-my one cat likes to eat the canned dog food. Little Mikko used to eat their Nupro.







So for weird cats, I guess the answer is yes! LOL!

Gayle-23 pills a day! WOW! I couldn't even get past that statement! 

Lisa and Sinclair-Nina is picky, picky, picky. She will do cat food one dose, then the next won't eat it. I think the capsules are really bitter. But she can find a pill in anything. And she hides them in her bed. For a dog who doesn't always present as especially quick witted, she's no dummy! 

I had called the vet office previously and no one knew about liquid Keflex. So I got her an appt. for today and don't you know her vet goes and gets a sheet off the internet and is ordering her abx BEEF CHEWS! YAY! Keep your fingers crossed. 

She did very well at the vet today-she was with Mariele and Bruno and was working off their happy to be at the vet vibe. She's lost 3# and I think that's from her bland diet (she was having stomach problems with all those meds). She won't eat rice, so she gets a little potato/bean mash with her meat. She was okay with the rice at first but then started picking it out-so gross looked like maggots in her crate-blech! She is too much! If she can lose about 5# more I think she'll feel a lot better arthritis wise-her one knee is a total mess he said. I (sort of jokingly) asked about arthroscopic surgery to vaccum it out and he said it wouldn't even touch it. I'd like to get her to 66# and see if that looks as good as I remember it looking (I sometimes get them a little too thin). 

ANYWAY (sorry-thinking out loud here) this was her 1 month follow up appt. 

The right hind side is almost resolved. YAY! 

The exposed ankle area is looking better but not as good as the right hind buttock. 

The left side is not resolved but has improved. 

Strangely, the chin/mouth really looks no better. 

As for the limping, she looks like she's limping on both sides in the back. The left probably because of the arthritis and the right because of the ankle. 

I said that of course I am concerned about bone cancer. He said gutwise, he is not getting that, because the one side is almost healed. (I just thought what if it is staph AND cancer-okay, need to take a breath), 

So she's got yet another whole month of the Keflex. I got her some Fancy Feast to see if that will get her week's worth of the capsules down better. A little more "tasty" than the other cat food. 

Recheck in a month unless it gets any worse of course. But there is improvement. If it hasn't resolved in that month, punch biopsies. And more Tramadol to help her with the two leg limping thing. She's also getting the Synovi G3 stuff. 

I talked to one of the IMOM people who sees a homeopathic vet and she said that they view staph infections as a good thing (think detox type thing). It all ties in with the homeopathic view of toxins and bad stuff coming out and resolving. If Nina is in a "healing crisis" (homeopathic term for the worsening of a condition just prior to a cure), it would make sense that the resolution of the condition would come from the back (hips) to the front (mouth); from the bottom up and less dominant side to dominant side. So if Nina's right side is less dominant, then the healing is progressing appropriately in holistic terms. The mouth on the left side should be the last to heal, if she's left side dominant.

I have no idea exactly what that means, but it made me feel better! 

She got a bath on Sunday and is looking very pretty. This was before the bath, but here is my big black bear! 









With her second vet Mario who is telling her that her chin still concerns him:









So that was a lot of writing but I thought the homeopathic information was too interesting to leave out.


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Actually it's front to back, top to bottom. From a homeopathic view you do want to see the "dis-ease" working it's way from the inside out. The body is trying to heal itself - when you supress the symptoms you drive them inward causing damage to the internal organs. The skin is the largest organ in the body and this one way the body has of ridding itself of toxins. Hopefully she will get this all cleared up. Is it possible she has something in her teeth or gums that is aggrevating her face? Or possibly something she is eating that is causing a reaction? Often times when a dogs face itches they rub their chins.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Very interesting! I have never even looked at homeopathic information so this is all very new to me. 

I asked if it's possible that it is taking her this long to clear out toxins-I got her at age 8, 2.5 years ago. She was not in good hands for those first 8 years from my understanding. Bred a lot, abused/ignored and then sold to a family that did not do right by her (but I got a great friend out of it). 

It is possible-she's never had a dental-she has very poor teeth (nubbins). I will check in her mouth. We tend not to do a lot in her mouth either at the vet now that I think of it because she will bite there. But I can look-she's fine at home and with me. 

She's been eating Timberwolf, now the bland diet. Stainless dishes. Synovi? Her probiotics? I asked if the moist environment made it oogier. I do have a topical spray to use and will up that a bit. 

THANKS!


You can see her teeth here-


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

It is entirely possible that she has perialdontal disease or something else going on in her mouth. This can cause internal problems. If you have access to a canine dentist I would suggest sceduling her for x-rays and a teeth cleaning. It is possible that she has something going on in her mouth that is causing or contributing to her problems.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Yeah, her teeth are very worn down. It's entirely possible she could have an infection in the gums there. I've had several older dogs who have had that. Does it look swollen around the gum area? Are any of the teeth cracked or dead?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Wouldn't a month of antibiotics work something out of there? 
(1500 mgs of cephalexin a day)

She's sound asleep. I'll have to look around in there tomorrow. At her last exam we talked a bit about how her teeth were worn down, but other than that, looked "good". 

People have surmised she chewed her kennel to get those nubs?


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Not if you have decay, plaque, possible root infection, those sources need to be removed. The front teeth especially wear with age, but ball chewing, kennel chew, rocks all can cause wear and damage. 

My male recently had a runin with a wire crate. I knew he had chip a tooth and a week later the face of a p3 sheared off. He went to the dentist and the x-rays revealed anoth 2 cracked premolars. we elected to pull 2 and fix the others which were less severely cracked. 

If the surface is worn through the dentin you can get an infection in the root. they can also get periodontal disease and gingivitis, especially if she has had poor care in the past.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

My first gsd had little nubs and cracked teeth from chewing rocks (her favorite toy!) and bones. Basu had them from chewing on his cage (and yes, I mean cage). 

Anyway, as GS Mom said, if the infection is in the root then the tooth needs to come out. Chama had that and so did one of my other dogs.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Well, I know she doesn't have any teeth in her butt, so there is a lot going on with her system beyond the head.









There is nothing in her mouth near her teeth that can be seen with the naked eye. The infection is on her chin-it goes chin, right ankle, buttocks. 

Are you saying an infection in a tooth could cause the whole shebang? Though I do believe 2 months of cephalexin is going to take care of any infection anywhere, I would like to get at the "root" of the problem if I can.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

I can't speak for dogs and staph infections, but in humans, tooth/gum problems can cause infections in other parts of the body. I have a friend whose adult brother almost died from an infection in his heart that was traced back to a dental procedure he had that introduced the bacteria into his blood stream.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

YES! I know that dentists now give abx before procedures. Kramer got abx when he had his dental. That is really scary though-yikes. For work we are trying to do more with dental wellness...for people. 

IF they have to do a punch biopsy I will definitely have a dental done at the same time (if that is allowed). I think my worry about anesthesia for an older, not so vigorous dog is always a problem for me. I'd have them use the propofol anyway, but still...

I'll work on getting her weight down more, too, before anything else happens (more stress on the body).


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Chama was 11 when she had to go under for that tooth pull. I had them give rescue remedy before the anesthesia and after as well as another Bach Flower Remedy that helps them come out from under it. I also had them give Arnica. I continued giving the Arnica for the next few days as well as Ester-C and Oreganol. She had no pain pills or antibiotics and she did really well--no problems whatsoever. The vet tech said she had NEVER seen a dog come out of anesthesia as well as Chama did.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN...
> IF they have to do a punch biopsy I will definitely have a dental done at the same time (if that is allowed). I think my worry about anesthesia for an older, not so vigorous dog is always a problem for me. I'd have them use the propofol anyway, but still...










I'm very paranoid. I agree 100% about putting an older puppster under for nothing more than a dental if there are no glaring dental problems. I would only do it as a last resort. Like if Kel had needed a dental, I would have asked for it to have been done Friday when he had the liver biopsy.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

I am not yet totally sold on all natural stuff, Ruth! HA! Meanwhile I am a believer in Reiki...go figure!

Yeah, Gayle, I figured if they have to do a punch biopsy, they can do a dental, some x-rays, nail clip, foot fur trim, facial, whatever!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Reiki--ha! That's as woo-woo as it comes!









If you do have to put her under I really would recommend that Bach Flower remedy to help her come out. I got turned onto that one when i had a cat I rescued spayed and she wasn't coming out of the anesthesia well at all--even after a day! I gave her one dose of that stuff and she was good as gold. And Chama was a happy camper and not too wobbly and I got to pick her up early from her dental surgery! 

I myself haven't had antibiotics in over 30 years (I'm allergic to all the major ones) but I do give it to my animals if necessary. Just so you know I'm not a total whack job...


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

I know-the Reiki-but it has really worked for me on my lungs! Bruno liked it. It seemed to help Kramer a little. 

So poor Nina has diarrhea. I thought the tramadol might help keep her firm, but my thinking is all this abx is doing it? Plus maybe the bit of kibble she's gotten with her bland diet. Or maybe too much ground beef for a while? She doesn't do well on chicken but I think the bland is good for her for now. 

And just a note for anyone considering getting beef (or liver) chews of the Keflex. I was afraid that she wasn't getting all her abx because she's not a good pill taker. I told my vet I didn't care how much it cost (thinking about $1 a pill) I just wanted her to get her meds. Whoops! I picked it up yesterday and 84 pills was $176.90 I almost fell over. I never would have guessed that price. And she doesn't like them.














BUT they will be easier to get in her, right? Good thing I had a little biopsy fund for Kramer set aside that I didn't need to use.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Jean are you giver her Probioitics? If yes, when in relationship to the ABX, time wise? If you think she is getting to much beef, up the rice. I have also use Oatmeal bran as a filler and fiber.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Yep, giving her the probiotics and thanks to this forum, apart a couple of hours from the abx. I was giving them at the same time. OOPS!

Oatmeal bran might work. She's getting potato instead of rice because she picks out all the rice-she's a character. Well, actually potato flakes made up. 

If she doesn't stop the liquidy poop I will call the vet in the am. Right? yeah. 

THANKS, VAL!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

When Indy was on Clavamox, it was 42 pills for $80. That was a 3 week supply, and we had her on it for 6 months. Yikes. I preferred to get them in smaller increments because it didn't seem so expensive.....aaaargh.

good luck with the loose stools.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Jean I really try to get 3 hours between the Probioitics and the ABX. Also make sure there is some food either in the tummy or with the ABX. These ABX are killers on tummies. How much Probioitics are you giving?

I have never tried Pepto, but it might help in coating the tummy ask the Vet on that one.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Six months-ooof, of clavamox! I would also be buying them in smaller quantities!

She gets 4 of those pills a day and they are going down much better. 

I've been doing lunch for her so that I could time things out better with all of that! Thanks, Val. 

Since she's been on those pills her stomach is doing better. She's still on bland with a little kibble because she likes it. 

Had a little panic as I saw black in the one infection on her ankle and called the vet. Then I decided to take pictures of it to send to them so they could see what I was talking about and realized it was hair. Whoops! I was so afraid it was something else. He looked at the pictures though, so that was good and saved me an appt.

She goes back on the 17th for her two month appt. Through all of this, she has never gotten nasty or been anything but sweet. 

Oh-is it okay to give her another bath-is that good? I use an oatmeal shampoo on her.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

If it was me, I would not be bathing her just yet - is there a reason you want to bath her? It is not meant to be a motile bacterium, but it is opportunistic and I would avoid any chance of allowing any spread, even if remote. There is nothing wrong with most oatmeal shampoos, they are usually very mild - it is more the fact of wetting her coat and then getting the coat dry again. 

However, if your vet okays it, ignore my advice. I'm just so glad she is starting to grow hair back, that is a very good sign.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

She likes it-LOL-I could do the dry bath stuff and massage with the curry comb. That's my only reason-I hadn't thought of spreading it. Uck! Thanks! 

Her butt hair is growing in too, but I am not sure if that's good or bad.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANHer butt hair is growing in too, but I am not sure if that's good or bad.


No, that is good!! Just like men, the more hair the better!!!







hehehe


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Yea she is growing hair... That is a great sign. Jean sometimes just a littel information and a bit of a change on the schedule works so much better for the dog. Give sweet Nina a hug. 

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Coconut Oil? Staph Infection-Nina 1 month Update*

Oh good-the hair is good. I want to be able to see the sores on her hiney though! I am sure they will shave it if that's necessary (and you know I will ask them repeatedly about it-I must be a nightmare). 

I gave her a big hug, Val. She likes the three meals a day.









http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_detail.aspx?item_guid=c89db8e9-3de0-407e-a89a-5135ea070a47
Is the coconut oil. I don't know if it's a good idea, if it's cheaper elsewhere (not sure if she'd eat actual coconut-she's not into fruit like Bruno) or anything, but I am just trying to boost her as much as I can. 

Thanks!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Update*

Nina went back to the vet today for a check-up of her infection and it's not going away well or quickly enough so she's going in tomorrow morning for biopsies of the areas involved. 

Chin/mouth, badonkadonk, and ankle. I'm going to have some other stuff done while she's under-teeth checked, pelvic x-rays to check out how bad her knees are (and hips-but that one knee is a mess from what he can feel). 

I've never had Nina go under anesthesia while I've had her, so I am a little extra nervous. She was spayed at 7 maybe, I am not sure, I got her when she was 8. I am asking for the old dawg anesthesia. 

So I will feel much better when she's back home tomorrow late afternoon.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Update*

I'll keep you both in my thoughts tomorrow!!


----------



## karlabythec

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Update*

Oh no...let me know how it goes. Poor Maggie is still struggling too...it is much better, but if she manages to get to something...which she has with the broken collar...she gets it all raw again. 
Please let us know hos Miss Nina does....poor thing.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Oh--just read this. Good luck tomorrow, Nina!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

I am working on my list for tomorrow and then going to get some rest! I would love to be able to sit in and observe in one way, but realistically, having almost tossed my cookies seeing Mariele's leg 2 days after surgery...probably not the place for me to be. 

Thank you all so much for your kindness.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Jean I just saw you post this morning. Some times Biopsy is needed to get the right Meds, she may need two different meds or just a different one, she may have a secondary infection that needs a different med. 

I will be thinking about you and sweet Nina.

Val


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Only just saw this. I'm looking forward to a favourable report. Hugs to you and the lovely Nina.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Thanks Val and Alison. 

I am hoping that's what it is, Val. I even made up a list of everything I coudld think of that it could be that isn't the thing we don't want to think of! If you know what I mean. 

I can call after 3 and pick up later after that. They let Bruno and I take her back to the kennels because Bruno makes a scene if they walk the other dog away from the lobby. But he has to see where they are going or he is nervous all day. She's so darn cute, she was trying to make friends with the Berner in the next kennel. Happy sweet Nina!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*






















Jean & Nina























Good luck, best wishes and my thoughts and prayers are with both of you today. It's so nerve wracking when seniors have these medical procedures that require anesthesia.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

I understand Jean, once you get sweet Nina home, then the hard part is to wait for the results of the biospy. But it will narrow things down, might not give you a definative answer but will rule out a lot of things. If an infection then they can do some cultures to see which drug it will respond to the best. We won't think about any thing bad right now.

Waiting to hear that you got sweetie home.

Val


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Just saw this....will be thinking of you and Nina!!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

How's Nina doing??????????????


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

I picked her up about 5:30 and she's doing really well considering she was busy today while she was under anesthesia!

Like we've all said, while you have a senior under, do everything you can and get it done with-I had x-rays done of her hind end and she has bad arthritis of the hip in one leg, bad arthritis of the knee (an unrepaired and not well taken care of ruptured ACL) in the other. So, if I can sell some plasma







I'm considering Adequan for her once I get the biopsy results back and can plan. 

She had her mouth all checked and cleaned. Her teeth are worn but in good shape and now plaque free. Anal glands-good, nails-trimmed short (yay!), and ears good, too. Some hair in her ear-I asked like other dogs' hair or her own-like something Ed Asner might have? And that was it-the hair growing out of the ears down in the canal which is okay. 

Bloodwork is perfect-so that's really good. 

He took biopsy samples (or whatever they're called) from her chin, hind end, and stifle. That he actually just fixed up. The chin bled a lot. The results should be back in ten days-which would put us at Kramer, Anna and Bella's appt. on the 28th so that would be really good if they came that day so I can talk in person (either in writing or in person is better for me-not a great phone listener). Stitches out in 14 days. 

She was so good all day they said so that was nice-you never know how they are going to come out of anesthesia! She's on some pain meds right now and is in her crate with her donut on just kind of looking around and sleeping. 

What was sweet was that Kramer was crying all day. Kramer's pretty dramatic (Chow-Shep mix-two Oscar winners) so at first I thought it was just regular nerves-the door moving in the breeze or something-but then I realized, HE was upset about Nina not being home. (I think they are wondering if I just pick random dogs to have surgically mutilated!) But he was worried and when I got home he pushed through the baby gate to see not me, but Nina. Which is so neat because he can be a jerk-I call them Archie and Edith Bunker-but it was nice to see that she really is one of his pack. 

So, I'll just keep an eye on her incisions and try not to think of the ten day thing!

THANK YOU all for your good thoughts and kindness.


----------



## M&J

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Ed Asner, Archie & Edith.








Jean, you always crack me up.
Prayers to St. Frances for Nina.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Holy cow, Miss Nina had quite a day. Glad you got her all checked out. 

Ringer started Adequan shots Friday - today he had his second one, I know they helped Too when she had them. 

That's so sweet about Kramer missing her. Give her a couple extra hugs from us!!!


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Thanks for the update on a very thorough set of tests but to me it seems they are either better than good results or treatable conditions (discomfort wise anyway). I always feel it is better to know what you are dealing with any health issues. I hope the rest is also sorted out and fixed up asap. 

I loved the description of Kramer but I'm sorry he was upset - what a sweetheart. Hugs to you Jean, it was a longer day for you than Nina in many ways - not only including the stress. Take care!!


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Glad to hear she is resting comfortably at home.

Give her a big hug from me and one to Kramer for being such a sweetie.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Thanks, everyone!

Nina is resting pretty comfortably today. She got to eat and was happy to do so. She didn't want to potty last night-wouldn't go off the deck and wouldn't go when I took her out front (not a leash-for crying out loud)! But she has peed and had a small BM this morning. All systems are go! 

She looks pretty good too-still tired-that was a rough day-you are right, Qyn, on that one, for both of us. I love the look on her face when I give her a hug. She's like those sweet old ladies in the nursing homes. So she loved the hugs people sent. 

I always really wish Kramer and I had her from when she was a puppy-I think she's one of the nicest dogs I've ever met and think with a few less hits to the head







her temperament would have been great. It's really good as it is with a less than great life. 

I am relieved to know that we will soon know what is going on with her. I gave my vet a list of things I was thinking it could be-that were not cancer-thankfully he was nice about it! 

And Kramer feels much better today having his older girlfriend home with him.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

<span style="color: #000099"> Sending {{{HUGS}}} to you and the pack!







</span>


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

Glad to hear Nina in on the mend. Sounds like her body has a lot to deal with! I hope you are ok too, Jean! I don't know how you do it--keeping on top of all these health problems. My three are hard enough to keep on top of and you've got lots of cats too! Tell your animals that they are very lucky to have such a great mom!


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Biopsy tmrw-Staph Infection-Nina 2 month Updat*

SO glad to hear Nina is doing well....Jean you really do crack me up with your descriptions. Its so much fun to have misfits in your pack, some have medical issues, some behavioral, its a never ending fun rollercoaster.....mine too! LOL


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

First, thanks everyone for all the help, info, and support. 

It IS fun to have a mixed bag of nuts. I always say I am the girl Herbie the Dentist on the Island of Misfit Pets (thankfully no one is squirting grape jelly out of any orifices-yet-never say never). 

So I got a VM from the vet that Nina has benign cutaneous histiocytosis. 

I need to ask if he wants to try to remove any more of them or if the steroid treatment alone will be enough. 

I found this website-it doesn't have pictures: http://www.histiocytosis.ucdavis.edu/faq.html

Some sites with pictures really didn't look like what she has, so I am going to ask about that (







to the internet from my vet I am sure). I think though that may be why it didn't click with anyone who has seen her there. 

But it is from the biopsy result...soooo...they also want to do one other test to rule out a (rare I guess) atypical microbacterial infection and on the voice mail I swear I heard him say TB. So we'll do that just to make sure there is nothing else going on. 

They say that these often spontaneously resolve, and I know with my autoimmune thing that it comes and goes, but I have found that it's much easier to say that things resolve when it isn't you with the problem! I don't know if this is something considered autoimmune or not. That will be important if I want to supplement, I am sure. 

So I am pretty excited and happy about this-I don't like steroids and will have to check on her other meds to see if they will all work together. I am thinking she might not need the Tramadol with the steroid since they always make me feel like I am pretty well pain free. 

I think we'll have some "it's benign ice cream" tonight.


----------



## Shandril2

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*













(I thought Herbie was a boy?)


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

YES! Very happy!

Herbie is a boy, so I would be what? Herbette? Herbalina?









I talked to the vet a minute ago. 

We are going to run that test for the atypical microbacterial infection and not going to start her on the steroids until those results are in. 

Also he stressed that this is an -osis and not an -oma, which would more likely occur in a young dog. 

This may just end up being a chronic condition-they don't always totally resolve with the steroids-but let's hope she does. I asked about removal-I didn't get a good read on his reaction to that. I'll see him tomorrow with the other dogs, so will have time to read and have more questions for then.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Wow, there is a lot of conflicting information out there about this. I'm glad it has not been diagnosed as anything worse - although I didn't believe it would be anyway.

Multi hugs to both of you and I hope there is an effective treatment without too much reliance on steroids.

All the best.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Oh-about the different kinds of histiocytosis? The systemic, and whatever? Or is there other conflicting information?

I am just so relieved that the word benign is involved that I haven't had a chance to look beyond that. Tell me what I am missing! That it might be chronic? I do feel like I am missing something on this anyway-it's a totally new thing to learn about. 

I know-I dislike steroids immensely. Thankful that her bloodwork is so good-and she's probably never been on them before. 

She was so cute this morning-she came running to me with her donut on her head and I said NinaAhmadinejad (her new topical nickname) and she was just so happy, and I am very thankful for that. Maybe someday she can lose that donut-she's hilarious because it does not bother her at all. 

I don't want to go to my meeting this afternoon. I want to read up on this.









PS-that might be mycobacteria infection-I don't know now!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Well, benign is definitely good. 

In that website you sent out it seems to imply that this is a chronic condition because it says that "early on" the lesions resolve themselves and this implies that something else happens later. 

Hmmm, I wonder how you might avoid steroids. Steroids never make me comfortable but especially when dealing with an auto-immune disorder. Notice the website says immuno-suppressants are needed to *control the symptoms* which, of course, leaves out the underlying issue altogether. 

I'll call my friends at the natural health animal supply store and ask them to look this up in their books.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*








It sounds like you're narrowing the problem down pretty good now!!! Can't wait for you to get to the last test!!!

For what it's worth, Tex had numerous health issues including juvenile arthritis and very serious skin problems (today they'd probably be easy to diagnose and treat). When he was 8, the vet said he'd never live to celebrate his 9th birthday. We agreed to put him on whatever dosage Pred he needed and give him injections of another steroid (forget name) as needed. I knew it would shorten his life, but I felt he needed a quality life for whatever time he had.

Fortunately for him, he didn't have any of the more common side effects of Pred - no uncontrollable urination, no panting all the time, no temperament problems, etc.

And yes, it did kill him - he was put down due to a complete system shutdown brought on by the Pred - it happened fast - one day he was "running" around, jumping on the furniture - less than two days later he was running and playing at the Bridge. 

BUT he would have celebrated his 13th birthday if he had lived two months longer. So yes, despite the nasty side effects of steroids, he not only had a comfortable life (he also took pain meds), but he lived to a ripe old age for a GSD.

Good luck!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Here's a simple article: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/72232.htm

Halfway down the page:
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2004&PID=8600&O=Generic

In reading, this sounds like it's kind of rare. Huh. 

The early on thing makes me wonder-maybe younger dogs that may happen with? She's had this since July. 

I don't know if it's auto-immune or not. But it seems like that is the idea in terms of suppressing her response to something. But first we have to wait for the other test to come back-getting close! 

I am having a hard time finding information that I "get" about this! Reading about the human version: http://www.histio.org/site/c.kiKTL4PQLvF/b.1810505/k.F16D/Disease_Information.htm but I am not sure how much matches. 

Wow, Tex was on the pred for a LONG time. That's pretty amazing. I would like her to be clear of these sores-so that they don't get the secondary staph infection again. 

I figure I'm close enough to Cornell that is a back-up in my mind-but I am jumping way ahead I think. 

I was reading about some Terramin? clay stuff...

Anyway, she enjoyed her ice cream (and poor Kramer got diarrhea-I forgot how sensitive he is to ice cream)!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Those links are interesting, but I cannot tell a lie, the last one was the only one that I actually understood everything that they said.

That's great she enjoyed her ice cream - sorry poor Kramer got an upset tummy from it. 

I looked the Terramin clay up. The link I looked at had a picture of a glass of the stuff that kind of made me sick to my stomach - I assume it was muddy water and not chocolate.
http://www.terramin.com/


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Sorry Jean, I did not mean to alarm you at all. I just read a lot of information and some is related to humans but I got the impression it was subject to misdiagnosis in some cases. 

The more I read, I feel the internet is really subject to the "garbage in - garbage out" metaphor and it is sometimes hard to distinguish the accurate info from the inaccurate. You have seen an improvement in Nina's behaviour and that carries more weight than any article posted with no real backup.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

That Terramin clay site is neat. They have Nutramin for dogs. Whether or not that would be good for her, I have no idea. But it's pretty cool-I think Nature's Variety food has some of that clay in it. 

Qyn-this is a new one for me so any information and input is appreciated-I want to hear it all!!!! I will not be a thread stopper if you say something that makes my brain hurt! HA!!!! Because frankly, it is cramping on this disorder. Anna's heart stuff was easier to understand!

Looks like Berners are big on the malignant, systemic types.









That first article was from UC-Davis so it had better be accurate! And you are right-I think it can be misdiagnosed. The biopsy said that it is the benign, cutaneous version but we are going to do the rule out of the mycobacteria thing-can you imagine getting this far and not doing that? I can go over stuff with my vet today though (if there is time and energey left-it's Bella, Anna, and Kramer all going together). 

But I literally still do not know what to ask or what I am and am not clear on. Yikes. 

And of course I am being optimistic that she will be easily treated no matter what it is. 

She's waiting for lunch right now-how cute is she? 

Thanks again for the help and support!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Here's Nina today-she was full of beans!

You can see where her fur is flattened from wearing that donut so long. 









This was after she got done playing with orange guy.









Just a sweet beautiful girl.









I'll let you know what they say next week.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Gosh she's a BEAUTIFUL girl!!!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

She is a pretty girl, and you can tell she has a sweet personality.

On another site, I read where someone soaked their dog's tumors using a warm cloth with green tea and it helped it drain and then heal?


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

I echo everyone else, Nina looks wonderful. 

Hey, I just googled the diagnosis and I read about 15 pages of links and some I followed other links - I can't give you any better info that you already have read yourself. 

For me, I read as much as I can and if anything strikes me that might be relevant, I write a question on a piece of paper, attach it to the calendar and take it with me to the appointment. 

I also look up any medical term I don't understand and do the same - it's awful of me but I sometimes question the vet about something I (think I) know the answer to and see what answer I get. It's great when I get the answer I expect and also when the vet is willing to research something they may not be totally knowledgeable about. I don't mind getting a different answer as long as it is backed up ...... but I do check it out. The vet's I respect never have a problem with my questions.

I have a need to know about these things and I apologise if my questioning things ever causes additional stress.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean, I'm late in reading this, (just got home from Parents Weekend at my daugher's college), and apologize in advance because I did not read every post. Lisa T. was kind enough to send me a pm and inform me about the histiocytosis diagnosis. As you know Sean was diagnosed 6 yrs. ago with Reactive Cutaneous Histiocytosis. He is under the loving care of a dermatology specialist. And he must be doing something right as Sean has had his fair share of ups and downs but going strong for 6 more years. Please send me a pm and fill me in on everything so we can talk. Best wishes and special thoughts being sent your way from Sean and me.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thanks! I have been in PM contact with SRM so that's helpful for sure! I couldn't find better help! 

Qyn, Lisa and Gayle-thank you so much for all of this. I feel a lot better bouncing ideas off of people. It makes a huge difference. 

I'll talk to my vet about the green tea. I could do it for her face. We don't do a lot of hiney butt touching on Nina without someone to hold her head-and that person has to be me! HA! 

I like that system, Qyn-I actually kind of use this site for that-all these links and ideas-I review and put them on my list. Is that bad?









On a lighter note, I chased Miss Nina across the yard because I caught her with a piece of poop-so she was running looking back at me with this poo hanging from her mouth.







So good to see her run, and to be SO bad!









(she's on enzymes-her GI bloodwork came back okay-I think it's a former mom/kennel dog thing)


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN Is that bad?


Not at all, at all, at all <said in a bad irish accent>










So Nina is not the road-runner beep beep .... she's the poop-runner bleep, bleep. LOL 



> Quoteshe's on enzymes-her GI bloodwork came back okay-I think it's a former mom/kennel dog thing)


You could be right!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*










The poop runner! 

She's so darn cute-like a full grown puppy. I need to take her somewhere (if it cools off) for an outing. 

I am still worried though about doing that! Her mycobacteria test (or whatever they call it-the stain) won't be done until next week. Her vet called to check on it today. That's for stuff like TB, leprosy (HUH?) and osteomyletis I GUESS-not sure and stopped looking stuff up about it because I didn't want to know until I knew anything. 

And I got back the results from her fecal IgA concentration/deficiency study that she and Bella did. Bella was in the normal range and Nina was in the low range where they recommend re-testing. I e-mailed the study and asked them how exactly to do that and also let them know about this new issue. 

Could they be in any way related I wonder? I am going to show it to her vet as well. 

Of course I never know the significance in the difference between numbers. Like the SATs-I could interpret the difference in scores for that-but what is the difference between her number and the low normal? ANYWAY! 

Nina mean mg/g 0.1725	

mean mg/g interpretation
< 0.06 very low/ undetectable fecal IgA*
0.06 - 0.22	low IgA/ questionable range*
0.22 - 3.24	within the reference range (normal)


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

From my understanding, the IgA is the body's defenses in the digestive tract, skin, and maybe mucous membrane type stuff? So it looks like Nina doesn't have very strong defenses. 


I think Max was somewhere at the lower end of normal.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Ahhhhh....I think you are right. Skin-makes sense. 

So the stain thing came back negative for mycobacteria! YAY! I think that's good. 

So now it's dealing with the other issue for sure. When he called today he talked about possibly trying a topical ointment (less invasive) or taking an oral steroid for an unspecified time. If her sores were small, he indicated the topical would be a good way to go. I have to get a good look. I am supposed to be on a Webcast right now-well, I am, but not able to concentrate fully on it! I do prefer to multi-task though! 

I am not quite sure what I am going to do yet-and am really in that hopeful phase where I am wanting this to be one of those cases where it's very simple and easy to treat and this very basic type treatment will resolve it. 

I also have to figure out what I should/could do regarding supplements to help her system out. 

Of course I am hoping for input here! But I am glad she doesn't have some kind of leprosy type thing!!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Glad to hear she doesn't have leprosy--that really would have been the weirdest thing ever. What kind of topical ointment are you supposed to be looking for? What about some sort of...ahem...herbal ointment? Would you consider that?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

You keep hiding Ruth!









I was at Lori's Natural Foods yesterday and found that I could "cure" Ilsa's barking with herbs and flowers.







I almost plunked down the $14 for it but was getting serious things for Kramer and didn't want to waste my money. 

There are things I believe could help and things I think are silly. I am right there on the milk thistle and stuff like that. I guess it would depend on how far on the silly scale I found it to be!

I don't want to do anything though to trigger her immune response. I have an autoimmune thing myself and try to avoid things that will trigger me-but I am learning what they are! And even though my vet has never admitted that this is what it is I just don't want to do something to make it get worse. She's doing really well now. So that is my fear. Using something off the beaten path that will set her body off. 

This webconference is going on and on and on...I wish the presenters would get a drink of water...


----------



## OrphanAnnie

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Hi Jean, gotta jump in on this one. I just went thru the same thing! My dog is only 2 yrs old, started licking his front leg, I thought it was a lick granuloma thing myself, if he hadnt started licking it, I never wouldve known it was there! It was about the size of quarter, slightly raised, but flat across the top, never saw it until he licked the hair off of it. my vet thought it was a tumor immediately, and thought it was a histocytomoa, but wasnt sure . after a biopsy, and having it confirmed, I had it removed.. mainly because depending on where its located, especially on the lower leg, if you dont remove it now, and it does keep growing, you run into the problem of not having enough skin to close the wound on down the road, since the skin on the legs is so thin.. (according to my vet) he had no problems with the surgery, I went ahead and got another hip xray while he was under. they are still good. (I always get one done if he is put under for any reason. nice to keep an eye on those babies) he did have stitches, and wore his ecollar, but he doesnt care about that thing at all, other than getting hung up on doorways, or chairs when passing, he just goes on about his business!

Keep us posted on this! its such a bizarre thing!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

So that's three! Your dog, Sean, and Nina. Nina's 10.5 and I am very thankful that this is the first that this has happened for her. Thankful because I don't think she'd be around if it had happened with her prior two homes. I hope it's not anything genetic, because who knows how many puppies she had. 

Now was your dog's a cytoma or a cytosis? Nina is a cytosis. 

She has one on her lip right now, the one he took off the chin from the biopsy looks great, same as the one on her leg. Her hind end is hard to see-between the hair and her bucking. 

I would like for them all to be removed, but he indicated that we would/could be doing that a lot. 

So I think I am going with the oral steroid for a period of time (not sure how long) and if no improvement will ask for a referral to Cornell. I did a trial run of an ointment today on her (not using an ointment, but just trying to simulate doing it) and basically I would have to smear a big gob on my hand and wipe her whole butt area with it in order for me to administer it that way.







I also don't want her to be so head shy with me as she was before when I was putting abx on her chin. 

I think I'll give her milk thistle during this time for her liver. Not sure what else to do. I am glad that this is the diagnosis and not something else, but at the same time, I am trying to figure out how best to take care of her and would like it to be more set in stone!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Okay, so I need a summary -- what kind of diagnosis do we have, and what are your goals in trying to treat it?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Benign cutaneous histiocytosis is it for sure now. 

I would like to see the sores resolve. I do not want them to develop that secondary staph infection again (which I guess is why they improved on the abx-some of it WAS on her hind end infected from her chewing on it-they were hidden by her fur). 

I would like to support her system when she goes on the steroid. 

I want the steroid to be short term. As short as possible. 

I would like to maintain/continue her weight loss. 

And I want to take her to the groomer!









Should I be wanting anything else!?!? 

Nina does look and seems to feel better than she has in months, so to me, that is already a success. Now, how much of that is a little serotonin high from the elavil and tramadol combo, or just the pain relief in the legs from the tramadol, or even her 4# weight loss, I don't know!


----------



## OrphanAnnie

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

My dogs was the cytoma. formed tumor, creepy looking joker after they shaved the hair away from it.. and he only had the one. said it shouldnt re occur.. it was way down on his leg, the super thin part of thier leg.. figures........
your girl is gorgous by the way. I think I have some photos somewhere of my dogs leg after the surgery. had to send them to my hubby at work, so he could see.. 

gotta say, my dog loved when his tennis ball was caught up in the e-collar.. right there for him whenever he wanted it!! rolling around in there! toooooo funny! here are some photos of him.. my ole meathead!! he is so funny!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

has she ever tried msm? would you consider trying it before trying the oral steroid?

orphan annie -- he's a handsome boy!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

WOW! That's a handsome dog! I am glad to hear it hasn't recurred. That is excellent. 

Like the msm in her Synovi? Or bigger doses? 
http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr.asp?...9B66043AF258A7C


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

I forgot that you already supplement with some -- probably won't help -- I couldn't tell from the page about how much you might be giving on a daily basis.

Is there enough zinc and vitamin A in the diet? 

Had to laugh about the leprosy line of thought -- with our dogs...who knows?????


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

I am just switching to the granules. I was giving her two chews a day. So when I get these she'll go to one scoop a day. 

Her food: http://timberwolforganics.com/pet-foods/...mula-33lbs-15kg

Yeah-I had asked him about a zinc deficiency because Bella had that and it looked like I had taken a little melon baller to her paw pads. It was uck! 








Leprosy-I know!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Both Indy and Max really responded to zinc way back when when they were on kibble...I don't know what that means, if anything.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

I think I was feeding Nutro (and she had just come from her foster home-not sure what she was eating there-hmmm...) when Bella had the zinc thing. 

Makes me wonder if a little Desitin would help?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Just a little update-Nina went to the groomer on Friday







and did great. She truly looks like she is enjoying herself there. I had the groomer shave her hind end where the ch is so we could keep an eye on it. Later that day we went to the vet for a quick checkup. I figure we'll go again in another month. Whether we're asked back or not!









Her chin looks terrific. The right hind and the ankle also looks good, the left hind is still a little iffy. 

She is on a VERY low dose of the steroid, so that could be bumped up if necessary. I am glad the results are good so far with two of the four areas showing great progress. 

She's doing well-switched back to kibble nicely, her weight is down and her mobility is better. She's also pretty playful and feels so pretty with her bath. I am going to do those every 2 months to keep her feeling good. I just think so much of Nina-she had a crappy life, kind of had that flat affect when I got her and is figuring out how to be a dog and enjoy life each day.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Did you ever try the zinc/desitin? Looks like I never saw your post.

I am so glad that she's doing well on a low dose. Hopefully you won't have to bump it.....maybe with a bit of longterm luck, you may be able to decrease it! (I know, I might be pushing that a bit.)

I love it when you start seeing the dog that they are meant to be. I have that with mine, due to the medical issues though. I can see how with the rescue issues, it's really nice to see them rebound -- I bet it gives ya goosebumps sometimes.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*








That's fantastic that she's showing so much improvement - good for her (and you too).

Give her a couple extra hugs from the Hooligans and me!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Glad to hear Nina's on the mend!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Ditto, double Ditto. So glad Nina is hopefully on the mend.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thank you so much!!!!

I wanted to have her checked again so I took her yesterday. Yesterday afternoon she was zooming around the yard with the younger dogs! I felt kind of silly, but was glad to have the appt. anyway. I made him smell her butt-to make sure there was no secondary infection brewing-I think that was a nice way to end his week.









All looks good-the chin looks great, the right butt is doing well, the left is better than it's looked since July-so slowly things are clearing up and improving! YAY! 

She's done with the steroid in December (she's on 1 every other day now) and we'll see how that left hind looks then to figure out what to do next. 

I realized yesterday that this has been a long-term weird thing that was probably bothering her for quite a while before it became visible. 

PS-She also met a tiny dog at the vet office-I've never seen her with such a small one and she was all mama dog with her. So sweet.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

I think that you just wanted this thread to rival the length of Kramer's thread?!?!???? (Just kidding!!))

I'm really glad to hear how well she is doing. It's good to hear encouraging news!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

HA! It's true! 

I was so excited that she's been running and playing so much. She gets 4 meals a day now like Kramer and I think that is making her even friskier (4 really great things to look forward to for her)! 

I should update Kramer's!







Actually he's lost some weight-I am guessing from that fish diet. But of course I'm worried-bloodwork at the end of the month.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

If there are less grains, carbs, or starches in the new diet, it can induce rapid weight loss, but typically not loss of muscle mass.

Keeping my fingers crossed for that bloodwork!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Nina Update-

Nina's got something going on with her eye so I needed to take her in. I also had "a feeling" about her skin issue.









Her eye needs to have continued ointment for 7-10 days. There seems to a possible "lesion" (not really but something) near her eye but not caused by anything that I can think of. She's just not that active. Also when he stained her eye, there is something there that may be that corneal dystrophy that Bella has. But we will...keep an eye on it. I am concerned that it will be related to the other stuff. Is that possible? The other thing I saw was a type of cancer-I am going to stop googling without access to the vet!!!!

The tech came in before the vet and shaved Nina's hiney butt. She was even good for that!!! But her histio is flaring up again. Even her chin is flaring-no pustule but open skin.







Very disappointing as we both thought (vet and I-maybe Nina) that it was under control. I am really glad I took her in before it got worse-I couldn't see through the butt hair on the one side, but saw what looked like growth on the shaved side. It had looked SO good. We are going to keep it shaved. I guess she can continue to go to the groomer too every other month-she likes that and I guess it will be okay for her skin. 

SO she's back on steroids with the tapering, for a couple of months. If this continues even with that, we'll have to go to the next level. Well, the steroids do give her that false sense of well-being!!! Can't beat that! 

She's calmed down a bit, but I am wondering if she flared up due to stress about the weather change. She really gets tweaky with changes. Maybe 7 years outside did that. 

OH! She's on a different version of the Pred, called Prednisolone. They said it works better in cats and is already converted-so the liver doesn't have to do it. So I guess that's better for her. 

But she was VERY good at the vet and her little buddy Bruno went with her so that made her really happy. Because Nina didn't get to be a dog or be around people for the first 7-8 years of her life, she literally takes on the personality of the dog she is with. So with Kramer at the vet office she gets nervous, and with Bruno she is social and takes treats. Really interesting!


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANSO she's back on steroids with the tapering, for a couple of months. If this continues even with that, we'll have to go to the next level.


Jean, check your pm's. Coincidental, I think not, Sean had a flare-up in his Reactive Histio. the end of this week. I had to call the derm. vet and pick up an additional supply of cyclosporine for him. It severely effects his sinus and nasal passge and one of his nostrils is totally blocked - it is red and swollen and he has difficulty breathing when this occurs. There must be something about this time of year weatherwise as it is about the time of year he was first diagnosed nearly 7 yrs. ago. If prednisolone helps her then go with it, you have to nip this insidious illness in the bud.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Darn, Nina seemed to be doing so much better recently. Hopefully the new meds will get her back under control!!!

Prayers and warm thougths along with lots of cyber-hugs and kisses







to Nina!!!


----------



## Tula

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

sorry to read this, Jean. but you're right... it's a good thing you caught it now! Keep us posted on how she is doing.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Drat!

Max had lipid deposits in one eye, and dystropy/degeneration in the other. I upped his vitamin A and E and that seems to have helped quite a bit.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thank you Marlene, I haven't responded to your PM yet, but I appreciate all you *unfortunately* know about this condition. I am so sorry his impacts his breathing-how scary. And thanks to everyone who is supporting Nina and me!

Pfffffffft...she's having a hard time. Wednesday she got stuck in her crate. That was scary. I am not sure what is going on with her back end. She's having trouble getting up and down the deck stairs after potties (if I put her leash on her she does better for whatever reason). Her legs are kind of shaky too. 

I don't know if it is-
A. Her hip/knee problems
B. The sores-imagine either a very small patch of 3rd degree burns or bedsores
C. The sores getting infected
D. Something else

Last night I tried to make a towel sling and made her cry using it. I felt so bad. I went in to get her collar and leash and she came up while I was getting them-I think she was like that crazy lady's gonna kill me, I better move on my own!

Wednesday I called and was going to take her in Thursday but she was better, we had bad roads and with the other two girls going, it would have been tight in the car/hard for her to get in and out. So she'll go in in a little bit this morning. 

They called me on Wednesday and said I could up her Tramadol and that helped. I would love for them to slap a patch on her until this heals up. Better would be figuring out what can be done to help her. 

I did get her a whole supply of treats she normally would never get to keep her busy in her crate. So that and the Tramadol is making her happier. Hopefully I'll have some good things to do with her soon.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANThank you Marlene, I haven't responded to your PM yet, but I appreciate all you *unfortunately* know about this condition. I am so sorry his impacts his breathing-how scary.


You're entirely welcome Jean, anything I can do to help even it's just listen. I can empathize along with you and yes, it is scary when the histio. impacts Sean's breathing. I'm going to the derm. vet tomorrow to pick up more meds. and will ask for that recommendation I mentioned. Hugs to Nina and you.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Hey Marlene! Thank you so much. 

So...we had a nice? two hour vet visit today. Poor Nina was doing terribly this morning. Which in a way is good so they could see it. She couldn't get into the car and when I got her in she just kind of layed there with her face on the seat and her hind end on the floor. It was so sad. I put her back up the whole way and she just stayed there for the ride-she loves to ride normally. 

They shaved her butt more. There is a bit of infection starting so she is going back on the Keflex-1500 mg a day. I actually think that this will help her in every way A LOT. I am glad she's on it-I think it will slow the flareups. 

So then on to the hind end weakness, etc. He had me walk her and I was still thinking hips/knees. Then in the exam room he started to do the hind foot flip thing with the knuckling. Wooo boy. Then it hit me-duh. So she may have DM. 

I am finally focusing enough to do the research. I've been looking at the supplements and trying to figure that out in terms of-how many pills can I realistically get into Nina without her gaining 50# on Pill Pockets, cat food, and McDonald's? Checking into this page: http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/DM_Web/DMofGS.htm

Melinda (Melinda & Jay) is helping me with a ramp. I think for right now that is my biggest "to do" to help her. She can go down stairs but cannot go up. So normally, not that big a deal-but on the steroids, she needs to go out more. I tell her to go potty on the deck, but that's for snow eating not potty!

She has been an absolute sweetheart through all of this. So many times I know I've done something to make her uncomfortable or even hurt her and she's so patient and kind. I know when I first got her, me or the vet, or techs or anyone would be missing some face, but she trusts us now, thank goodness for that in every way. She was so tired and feeling so bad today that she just layed there while she got shaved. 

So ramp first. Then back to the vet next week. In the meantime, research DM and also try to see about any cases of histio and DM. After that vet appt. I will look into the supplements more thoroughly. She's getting some of them sent to her by an IMOM lady. 

With the histio if the pred doesn't work we will switch to cyclosporine but we are holding off on that to see if the abx helps out (and she was on both before). 

It helps me to write this all out. It also helps because I can go back before a vet appt and say on this date she was running and on this date, she can't even get out of her crate! Which she just did and also just ate some cat food so good news!!! So thank you for letting me journal her illness here! 

She is also getting a Reiki session tonight. Her Reiki lady will e-mail me tomorrow to let me know where the energy went. 

Weird thing-Kramer looks so much younger now in comparison to Nina (I also think his dose of abx is helping him). But it's strange how she aged so quickly (and I think she will go back to normal as soon as that abx kicks in). 

Soooooooooo...that's the Nina report. I guess it was C and D.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean, went to the specialty vet this afternoon to pick up Sean's meds. and left a message for him to call with a referral for a derm. specialist in your area, one who is familiar with histio. Will let you know as soon as I hear back.
In the meantime, enjoy your weekend or should I say winter wonderland.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Poor Nina. It is one thing after another. Lucky Nina. She has you to look after her. Poor Jean ...... I wish I could look after you and your dogs. Lucky Alison ..... she gets to know all of you via this website!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thanks again Marlene! I am sure anyone who has dealt with Histio knows anyone else who has as well. My vet brought in a possible Cornell externship student to show Nina to her and said take a look at this because you may never see it again. Let's hope for other dogs' sake!

Thank you Alison-we would LOVE for your help-your support is just as important and we thank you for that. We are lucky too!

We have great news to report here-Nina made it up the stairs by herself this morning!







She walked a bit farther than she did last night even. 

I really do think it's the abx. If you think about it, could it work like this? A dog with 2 autoimmunes and an immune suppressing drug gets an infection. Even with the pred, the body is going to go nuts (unless she was on a much higher dose?) and start attacking itself even more. So it goes from the skin to the nerves. Abx come in and start to take care of the infection and the system can relax and it would start to leave the nerves and eventually the skin. If this could be true (LOL) then I would imagine having her on a maint. dose of abx might help?


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean,

Maint. dose of ABX for Nina might be something to look at. You have to weigh the good and the bad of the Abx. If it means a more comfortable life for her and you can balance the ABX killing the good tummy bacteria, then it is really something that needs to be considered.

I am glad that Nina made it up the stairs. Dogs are so smart some days I wish they could talk and tell us where it hurts.

Val


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean, Val has a great point. 

In fact, I was just thinking about this with respect to Indy today. We don't know if Indy responds to abx because of infection, or because they modulate her immune response to the vaccine damage, but we use abx much like others use steroids -- to knock down flare-ups. Our hope is to extend the time she can go without abx, but if she has to be on low-dose abx to keep things in check, there are a lot worse things that can happen.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina Pics! DM? Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

That's what I am thinking too. In fact, she doesn't mind the probiotic at all-so that helps. And bloodwork can be done regularly to keep an eye on anything going bonkers. Last time-September-hers was great. She and Indy can compare abx notes!

I really like this theory. It's making a lot of sense to me. I wonder if I should try it on myself. And I wonder if anyone with a dog with DM or other autoimmune has tried it? 

She's eating well today, gone up and down the stairs 3x, and even played with a squeaky outside. Just now she looked at me like where is the rest of my food and treats? Her eyes just look better. 

I took pictures of her new "condo." I got it in case she got stuck in her crate again-that was scary. 

First-I can fit four dogs without a problem (probably more if I had tried) and three dogs can fit (1 GSD/2 mixes) and stretch out. Check out Ava's face-she thought that Bruno was going to get a treat! EVIL! 









Nina thinking who she's going to invite for a sleepover! I have a double bed-wonder if that cute little Bruno wants to keep me company? 









Doesn't love the camera, but her eyes are clear and her head is up!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina Pics! DM? Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

You need more dogs Jean!!!!

Okay, here is my experience with the abx.

Indy has some sort of problem from her vaccines, and the abx have always helped her. She's always great for the first three months, by month 6 we have to take her off. But I've never gone with a low dose, just the normal dose. Abx are supposed to be immuno-suppressive, and in some case modulating. I believe that some dogs on the canine cancer list are on low level doxy because it has some anti-cancer benefits.

With Max, he's been on abx since about May -- alternating doxy and amoxy to see which is best. I think the doxy wins. I have no clue why the abx help him, but when I take him off, his pannus flares, as do his ears. We are working on getting him off, but no luck yet.

Max gets his pannus meds once every 4 days. However, sometimes the cornea starts growing stuff rapidly. Increasing the pannus meds don't help (they only increase the degeneration and spots on the cornea). To stop the corneal growths, and even make them recede and disappear, he needs either oral or eye abx. After I took him off of abx last time, his eye growths started up rabidly, so I had to kick them back with eye abx, then back to pannus meds every 4th day.

So, my dogs test negative for any infections. Eye doctor says the eyes aren't infected and it's typical pannus. So the abx must be doing some kind of mudulating. The abx for Max are things I've tried on my own -- I don't think most vets are willing to experiment the way that I have...I've a bit of mad scientist in me I guess....bwaa haa haa haa!!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

Lisa, I like what you are saying about the abx. I totally believe it. And I am thinking of experimenting on me! Abby Normal!

Oof. Kramer, Nina and I went to the vet this morning. He got his Adequan shot and a Christmas gift nail trim.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










But Nina-who is looking better-her sores are less red, her legs seem a little sturdier, we did well with the new harness she got from Handicapped Pets (and she looks snazzy in it), she got her nails done (for free too), we were all kind of happy until he started his exam and asked me...where did this lump come from? Was that there last week? And I said-you know how I am with lumps, of course not-she has a HUGE lump on the inside of her leg-you can't see it unless you flip her over-which of course I don't do and she can't do. It's like orange-grapefruit size. Unbelievable. Inside hind leg. He of course also knew that the lump was not there last week-he had felt every inch of her last week. I had noticed in the exam room, but then discounted as being crazy, that her one foot was bigger than the other. So what the heck is this??? Edema? Lymph stuff? An alien? If we had something like this we would go nuts. I can't believe, and neither can they, how good she is moving with it. 

He aspirated it. HIS look at it-which he said not to follow because he's a vet and not a pathologist, is that it is full of white blood cells. He sent it out to be seen by a pathology lab. Rush. We are at Orange Level Terror Alert, which is the highest I think we've ever been. 

He does not know what it is. I asked if it could pop and he said he could not say it wouldn't. Which might send me to the looney bin if it does. I am stunned. The dogs had been sniffing her again-Ava was all up in her business, but I discounted it because Nina had peed herself-she's been having incontinence issues. Nina's been going out every 2 hours to pee. Urine sample was normal. 

So she's switched to Baytril and then wait for the pathology report.

On a happy note she did well getting out of the car and then went for cheeseburgers which she thoroughly and completely enjoyed. 

And Kramer helped do the aspiration. He has been very close to her lately. 

I have work to do and want to do nothing but sit here as I am totally stunned by this thing. 

Anyone have any thoughts? Other than







or







or


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

how bizarre. I predict it's a green frog in it, waiting to bust out and sing "hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime gal...."


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

OMG, Melinda. I can't believe you actually posted that.









And Jean, what the







? I hope, hope, hope that it is just some crazy immune response. I remember someone else posted about some crazy lump that was the lymph nodes reacting to the immune system being over stimulated. Maybe that was you...I can't keep track. 

I just have to say that my dad had CLL (chronic lymphocite leukemia) and as he got worse and worse they put him on more and more meds and then all kinds of crazy things happened because the meds were interacting in weird ways. So maybe it's something like that? 

When will the rushed results return?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocytosis*

I will put that in the pool.

I just hope it's not a clown. 

I really don't know and my mind is incapable of even opening up to consider what it could be. 

I think he thought he was going to come back in with the stuff he looked at and know what it was. 

Re the results-I have no idea on that even! It was hard for him to predict because of the holidays. 

I was thinking that a little with the lymph-I know mine swell-I am always watching for that because then I know the tired will hit next...and she's been tired. I was going to try to get to that thought-good for bringing it forward!

And I am sorry about your dad.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

My point in bringing up my dad was that the docs didn't really know how all the meds interacted with individual patients. That's one of my beefs against allopathic medicine. 

Anyway, my vote is that her lymph node ballooned because her immune system is working over time to fight off all the different infections. And the needle happened to catch a bunch of white blood cells. Did he do one aspiration or multiple? Because it could be different depending on what got sucked up.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

He did at least 4, I think he sent 3 and kept the one for himself. 

Her body is really going apecrap on itself.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Poor girl. But at least she's feeling better! Chama has a GIANT lymphoma under her arm and it doesn't impair her movement at all. 

I still think it's the lymph node just doing it's job. 

Go out and take some pics of your pack in the snow before it starts raining!


----------



## M&J

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Son of a %^$#.

I vote for some sort of "lymph system --do your thing" response. Don't you remember when you were a kid not going to school if you had 'swollen glands"? The absence of them always foiled my plot to fake it, stay home from school to watch Bewitched. 
I also think the suspected DM is really the infection and going to respond to the antibiotics. I don't think with DM the lameness comes and goes like that, does it?

It makes perfect sense in the Jean and Mary zone. 

I have St. Francis and St. Jude working overtime for you guys. 
I wish I still had your phone number!!!!! 

Let us know if you hear anything, ragtime gal. Melinda, that was hilarious.

Prayers for good results. Maybe it will be the piece to the puzzle that ties it all together of what in **** is going on.

Love you, Jean.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Thank you so much, Mary. 

I also tried to stay home to watch some good TV like Bewitched! Or Match Game! Actually did you know that Nina most corresponds with the Aunt Clara character on Bewitched? Sweet, a little befuddled, and you want to hug her. 

I think you could also be right about the DM. This is all a big mystery. Where the heck is Nancy Drew! Maybe it will be the piece to the puzzle that ties it all together of what in **** is going on-I hope you are right. 

I've got to start in on St. Francis. 

I also called my vet office (Saints there too) to ask if she could be on both abx at the same time to really hit her hard. 

Thank you.


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

You know I can't offer medical advise, but I can send huge hugs from me and my gang for you and Nina.

I have been watching this thread and all the crazy things that have been happening to her, and it is such a nail biter.

St. Francis is being bombarded..


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Oh Jean.

Sorry to hear that Nina has this big whatever pocket. 

OK Guys, Sweet Nina needs our help.... Send out those good vibes. 

PS Jean could use a little comfort also.

Hang in there Ladies.....

Val


----------



## chjhu

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I am sorry to hear about Nina's problems.
I had two dogs of her age with DM. In my experience it progresses very slowly in older dogs. I would focus on taking care of the other health issues first and worry about DM later.
I had a dog that developed liquid filled lumps suddenly (several over her body). I hate to write this down, but it turned out that she had hemangiosarcoma and I guess the cells were leaking fluid. I sure hope this is not the case with Nina. They aspirated the lumps and could not identify anything.

Prayers going your way from the Baltimore crew.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Oh Jean, I am so sorry to hear this about Nina. I am no help with lumps.

Lots of hugs and prayers from my pack to you and Nina. 
You know that is alot of hugs and prayers from canine and feline with my huge pack.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Three, Val, Mom, Tammy and all-thank you so very much. I read these messages last night and it does give you comfort to know that so many people are pulling for Nina. Means a LOT. Don't worry posting something bad-I like to be well aware (obsessively so) of things it could be. Even singing frogs. 

Bella's biopsy (all good) came back from Tuesday-a simple one not during the holiday, so I am hoping that Nina's is equally speedy. He put a rush on it and sent her histio information. 

Her appetite is huge and that makes me happy. She stands up now waiting for her supper. She is eating the Baytril like I'd eat a Girl Scout Thin Mint cookie! (inhales it, in other words)

She is going for little walks when she goes out to potty-about every two hours to keep her from wetting herself. I get up 1-2 times at night and that is helping her make it through. I think I am going to get some nice washable pee pads I saw in the KV Vet catalog. 

Kramer watches over her until she goes to her ice eating spot, and then he does his business. Very sweet to see these two old babies together. 

The harness is incredible because all I have to do is hold the handle and she knows she is being supported to get up the stairs. I am leaving it on her if I am home-do you think that is okay? She has to lift her right leg to get it on and every 2 hours...that's a lot (that's why I am keeping it on-so you can see if there is a cost-benefit thing that I am missing)! 

I got some pictures of the lump but am not going to post them. I will PM them if anyone wants to see them. 

But here is a picture of her giving me the raspberry in her harness!


----------



## M&J

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

God Bless you, Jean. You must be exhausted-mentally and physically.
That is one snazzy harness! 
I vote for keeping it on her when you're home. Now I want some Girl Scout cookies...........


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Jean, As long as Nina is comfortable with the harness on I would leave it on. It might be acting like a body wrap and it could be giving her comfort.

The only draw back I could see with leaving the harness on is it might make her coat mat uner it so watch for those wonderful hair knots. It also might break some of the hair, but hey sweetie isn't a show dog, so big deal if she has some broken hair.

She also might get a little warm in the wrap, but with a senior that isn't ticking at 100% she would have to burn less energy to keep warm.

Give her a BIG hug from me and my hubby and sloppy face washes from my crew.

Val


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN Actually did you know that Nina most corresponds with the Aunt Clara character on Bewitched? Sweet, a little befuddled, and you want to hug her.


Ha, ha, Aunt Clara was my all time favorite character on Bewitched - what does that say about me?







I also liked Paul Lynde as Uncle Arthur on the show. 

Jean, sorry to hear Nina is having problems. Wish I could do more for you but I know she is in good hands. Hugs to both of you.


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

That picture got me all teary....


----------



## agilegsds

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Her huge appetite is, well, huge, for lack of better words. But that says a lot! And she looks really really good, her eyes are sparkling in that pic.

Jean, I first saw this thread yesterday and have been thinking about both of you since then. Sending you all of my thoughts and hugs, but I'm thinking you can bank most of it because you won't need it since she's looking so good!

You know I love ya and all your guys!!!


----------



## kelso

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Hey Jean

Just wanted to say many prayers and thoughts are with you and Nina







She looks so pretty in that harness

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view








Looks like Nina definately knows the saying "if life hands you a lemon make lemonade" what a sweet girl.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Thank you all so much. She's trying so hard. These posts mean a lot and I tell her lots of people want to see her get all better. 

We napped a LOT today. It was nice. All the dogs are tired too from getting up so much so they were napping right there with me. It must look like a bear den...It gives me a lot of appreciation for people who have had pets with chronic truly long-term illnesses who post here and on IMOM. 

Good points on the harness-I am going to take it off to brush her because she likes to be brushed, but will leave it on as long as I am home. I think it is like a wrap to her. In fact, Kramer wanted to try it on and he liked it, too.

She's still eating and now wants a treat each time she comes in (I was using them to get her to come to the stairs) so that's like 8 treats a day! I am using kibble now as a treat or I won't be able to pick her up. 

The frequency of her peeing continues, but since I am on a schedule with her, she's not wetting her bed. Very nice! I think she's clearing that edema out. Or trying to. 

Today she actually didn't go straight from out back to her crate, she walked around and even put a tiny piece of paper that fell on the floor in her crate, then went back out, got a toy and put that in there too. I was amazed! So then she can bark at the dogs from her crate to protect her treasures. Last summer she was doing that and I couldn't figure out why-I went looking and found a teeny tiny little glittery star (pinkie nail size) from 4th of July garland in her bed!







She's hilarious. 

I found a good site about histiocytosis that I think is new. It has a lot of good links. I am going to print a couple of the pages and drop it off at the vet office-Merry Christmas!







http://www.xs4all.nl/~gvdt57/usa/mh_histiocytosis.html

I have to do a lump check later to see what it looks like. I've been kind of putting it off because I am hoping that it is getting smaller and figure if I wait longer it will have more time to do that. 

Bewitched question-
Who was that other guy...with the white suit? Moustache maybe? Very cool acting...Dr. Bombay?

PS-Mary-Grasshoppers...


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Jean, remind me, what's she eating, what meds is she on?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Pork/burger and mashed potatoes, with Timberwolf Lamb/Apples. Transitioning back to the kibble afer some loose stools. Then will be switching to their Black Forest (Venison/fish) formula and just meat. 

She is on...
-Amilytriptiline for general anxiety-one every other day. We haven't wanted to take her off it in case stress would make her flare up. 
-Tramadol-one low dose 3x/day
-Prednisone every other day
-Baytril (from Keflex-switched Friday)

Plus Prozyme, liquid probiotic, Synovi G3 powder, hyaluronic acid and adding DMG soon-was afraid to after Friday! But want to!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I might think about trying to wean off the pred and use doxycycline to modulate the immune system?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I think we are going to wait until the lab results are back before doing any changes (other than that Baytril from Keflex switch). 

I have the list of meds that Sean takes for his histio from Marlene to show my vet. It is...a list! That's if that's what this lump is. I usually don't feel this impatient but wow-I just want to get moving here.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

My understanding is that the histeos don't contain all those white blood cells -- am i wrong?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I think the answer is in Q#9. I think! Forgot the link! http://www.histiocytosis.ucdavis.edu/faq.html

This scares me: 
"Neoplastic histiocytic disease (the histiocytic sarcoma complex) may involve the skin or subcutaneous tissues resulting in mass formation (masses are bigger than nodules). These masses are commonly on limbs, but they can occur in almost any surface location. In one form of histiocytic sarcoma, periarticular HS, the masses can encircle joints and cause lameness."

But I am not going to read much more of this stuff! Going to keep a positive outlook!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Oh, I had it completely backwards, didn't I?!?

If this was the reaction while on pred, then I still would want to try the doxy, but that's just me. I think a week and a half on pred really messed up Indy, and she has an autoimmune type of disease, so it shouldn't have been that way.

Sure wish we had a crystal ball.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I tell you, the very basic part of this disorder I don't understand! I have to look it up everytime!!!! 

She's been on the Prednisone-in looking at all those websites this weekend, they say it is not effective in a high percentage of dogs-however, it had worked on the first flareup pretty well-resolved in 3 of 4 places. This just seems to have taken off this time. And maybe that's all that lump is or maybe it's just a big infection. Or a frog...

I would try standing on my head and singing if it would work!







On the UPenn protocol they used tetracycline as their abx it looks like. 

That is really weird (but unfortunately for her not too surprising) that Indy would react oddly to the pred with an autoimmune type disease! 

Oh-and Nina just had the most delicious pill snack, was sitting up!!!







in her bed and had the most alert look in her eyes I've seen in a couple of weeks. I was going to check her lump but she looked so good and happy-I decided to leave her alone. I took a flashlight and shined it to see and the lump did not SEEM to be hanging like it was (seem-I couldn't see so well) and she was able to sit up so that would also SEEM like a good sign. She's been either laying down, standing or doing a poop crouch-so sitting is very nice to see!


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Where did she have an edema??? She may have started to develop a reaction to the keflex. That how I discovered Rainer had lymphoma indirectly. He was on keflex for a sore on his foot and his ear got swollen, then his head (one side of his face, his hind legs and he was having trouble walking - after alot of googling I found he was having symptoms of an allergic reaction to Keflex. Once the swelling subsided, his nodes were still large which lead to the diagnosis.

Another dog on our lymphoma list had a reaction to the keflex similar to Rainers, but the vet didn't believe the keflex was the problem - they realized it too late and the dog ended up having to be PTS the owner was really sad because her dog was still in remission.

I would really be careful with a dog with immune iisues and long term keflex use, especially in high does.

Hope she is feeling better, I would like to see the pictures of the lump, can you pm me???

Diana


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I will PM you. 

It's in her groin. I am calling it a groin goiter because it kind of looks like that. 

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=31&A=538&S=1 makes Keflex sound great doesn't it! Do you have a link to information on the Keflex? That would be something wouldn't it. 

Thank you Diana and Lisa!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view








It sounds like Ms. Nina is showing a lot of improvement - what a great Christmas gift!!!

I love the comparison to Aunt Clara - my favoite Bewitched character - does Nina collect door knobs too?


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

I'm afraid of a lot of the high powered abx. I know they are often necessary and work wonders, but many of them have loads of side effects that you never know about until you get good at googling.....

So UPenn uses tetracycline???? I had no clue that abx were a part of any protocal, but this makes me think even more strongly about the doxycycline.

I am so glad that you've seen some improvment...that is just about the best gift ever


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*



> Originally Posted By: Arycrest ....I love the comparison to Aunt Clara - my favoite Bewitched character - does Nina collect door knobs too?


Did she collect doorknobs??? Okay, does it show what a geek I am if I say that I do too?? Okay, I don't really, but when my grandmother passes away about 20 years ago, she had a bunch of glass doorknobs that had been taken off of doors in her house, and I kept those, cuz they were cool. Still haven't found a good use for them, but I can't seem to part with them either


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTStill haven't found a good use for them, but I can't seem to part with them either


Lisa, this is really off topic to Jean's thread but I saw old glass doorknobs in a magazine being used as hooks. They were attached to a board and had different items hanging from them. It actually looked pretty cool.

Now back on topic, Jean, one of the meds. on the list I sent you includes tetracycline which Sean's doctor prescribed based on his conversation with the vet at U. Penn.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Hey SRM, that sounds like a really clever idea -- thanks!


Hmmmm, I seem to remember somewhere that abx suppress the white blood cell counts? Is that why it's part of the protocal,?


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Just wanted to let you know I am reading this thread all the time but just don't have anything helpful to add. Definitely you are all in my thoughts!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

If there was a doorknob on the floor, Nina would collect it! I actually have a diamond doorknob from my Grandma's house-I thought they were diamonds when I was little. This is a nice little side topic!









I wish I knew more about antibiotics. Wonder if I could sneak into a class at Cornell sometime! I have a whole sheet to bring with me to the vet with information I got from that one website and the links there, plus from Marlene. I am going to stop reading things for my Christmas present to me (for now-I'll be right back at it when I have vet access)! 

Thanks for all the good thoughts-they seem to be helping.









Last night she ran! It was not pretty, I could have probably beaten her in a race (and that's not good). She was coming in and started to trot, then ran and of course I am saying Nina, slow, slow, but she just wagged her tail and kept on coming. Pretty impressive display of spirit. 

Then this morning, she went to her favorite poop spot, which is farther than she's gone to do that job in almost 2 weeks. 

We are still pretty regularly going out every two hours except at night and that's two potties instead. I keep forgetting to look at her foot/leg to see if it's swollen! Well, it's an hour to next potties so I will check then. 

I also sort of flipped her over and to me, her lump looks less like a giant swollen scrotum (goodsearch image epididymitis for pictures-if you want to-graphic of course) and now looks more like a breast implant (not implanted-just the actual implant sitting on a desk) so from round to flat. I think that's good? And how scary that these are the only references I could think of. Glad I am not going to the vet with her today! 

And the last time she was out she started barking-now there was nothing there, but still, she was making sure she could still keep that nothing away! I keep hugging and kissing her and I think it's getting annoying to her! 

So until that lab report comes back we are happy-and may still be after, knock wood.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Lump/Mass--Nina DM? Benign cutaneous histiocyt*

Well based on this report she is clearly feeling better! It sounds like she's getting a little better every day and that is the best Christmas present you could have! 

Maybe you could give her a special piece of something as her Christmas present. That is so funny that she picks up tiny little things to hoard! So cute!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histiocyt*

I think that's a good idea. I'll put a piece of cardboard (always a favorite of hers) down for her to get! I was thinking of giving her a stuffed toy for her bed-she'd prefer one of the cats in there with her...but that's not always possible.









Okay, so the vet just called-that was FAST!









I haven't had time to look up all them thar fancy words, and I need to take everyone out to try to give them some exercise (it is SO cold they don't want to go out) so that will have to wait, but I figured I would post before I did. I did do quick searches on them but nothing retained! 

Results-
What it is-lots of white blood cells, neutrophills, macrophages, debris
I believe the official diagnosis-necrotizing celluitis (a little concerned over the word necrotic) 
comment-culture it if no improvement
Then the crazy things-nochardia, rare bacterial infection from soil
or spider bites a possibility

So, still a mystery and I think we all want something more clear-cut than a huge infection that came about in a week! But we are all VERY happy that many other things did not come back. And I think what did come back is positive-like I said, I am not sure because I don't really "get" this the first few times I look at it. 

The whole cellutis thing is common in immunocompromised dogs, I guess. I am still giving him the information about SH-but I would have thought that would have showed up!









Well...so...good! Weird, but good. Happy Holidays!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histiocyt*

OH this is sounding good. What a nice Christmas Present for you and Nina.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Merry Merry Christmas Nina, and Jean, and the gang


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Boy, you said it! What a gift. 

Merry Christmas to everyone-you have all been so helpful. 

There's still stuff to think about, but today was so nice. Her appetite is still monstrous (Pred or no Pred), attitude is great and she is able to sit a little better still. 

She did 3 hour potty intervals today, so that was pretty good, though at the end of the night she has had to go more frequently, but I hope that is flushing all that bad stuff out. I see less swelling in that paw tonight. 

I think I want to have her blood work done-her urine test was good. I also want to ask for a tick test-she had the HW/Lyme/Something test done last January. What tick test do I ask for? Do they send it out? 

I would have liked a culture/sensitivity thing done, but I guess now that she's on abx that might not be accurate? Or will it show stuff the baytril won't cover? 

Then I have all the histio stuff I found/got from Marlene.









I feel like I am living on an episode of House, Veterinary Version with her but am so, so thankful for the results we are getting and just grateful for everything.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

There are a couple of tick panels that can be run. The problem with tick tests, is that there is not one of them that is full proof. The folks on the tick list use the protatek lab -- they have the vet draw the blood and send it themselves to protatek, because they specialize in tick diseases, and you can call the lab and talk to the director --- she can even give you an indication of what tick tests would be best to test for. You might want to call her (Cynthia Holland -- the protatek lab will be at the TBD info link in my signature).

I haven't a clue about the culture....I never have any luck getting positives on any of my dogs tests.....

Hopefully this is a House episode where it suddenly all comes together in the end and a miraculous recovery follows. Well, okay, we can hope


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

I am pretty sure (famous last words) that the tick thing is way out there-because Nina isn't exactly out and about! BUT, never say never. I will give them a call. And if they send it to Cornell from my vet that's not too bad either. 

I am seriously getting worred about a MRSA. I have no idea if my worrying makes sense/fits her situation and symptoms or if it's just my pointless worrying. 

She was doing better-less swelling, peeing often, but then last night and today, drinking more, peeing less and seems like the edema is back down in the paw even. 

I do think the lump looks smaller though. However she is having a harder time getting around today. It doesn't help that the yard has ice on it. 

I wonder if Cornell would take us as a teaching case at this point. She just seems like such an enigma. Where is House?!?!

I got an appt. for her for 4:40 today. I am starting to get back to that higher terror level again. She hasn't whined to go out at all.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

I guess not everything is tick related!


Gosh Jean, I so wish that you could get this thing under control -- I know that near-panic mode. Most of us have been there. Sure hope this afternoon brings some better news.


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean, I think it's probably a good idea you are taking Nina to Cornell. Did you mean your appt. today was there or at your regular vet? If you meant Cornell, hopefully they will be able to answer all your questions. That is unless you're like me and have 4 pages written back to back, LOL. Best of luck, please keep us updated.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean,

I just emailed you an article about MRSA. I thought of Nina immediately when I read it.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

There wasn't even supposed to be an appt. today-I got nervous that a phone call wouldn't be enough and brought her in. We just went to the regular vet (and they are SO busy-it's unbelievable). Nina had a fever of 105.3 (on Baytril) so that explains her laying around not doing a lot today. But one big sign I always look for is loss of appetite and she was eating like she was being paid to! 

He was listening to her lungs for quite a while and then did x-rays. He was concerned that the fever was from cancer. However, there were no visible tumors in her chest or abdomen. But only a partial







because who knows what is happening in that girl. 

Her bloodwork was wonderful.









She has not been going to the bathroom. I even let her loose in the front yard (because I know I can catch her), where there is less snow and it is flat, and she just headed right to the house. She is so sweet. And also full of urine and poop-could see it on the x-ray. I just don't know if she has the oomph to get it out or what. 

However, she just ate her supper. With much gusto. And she ate the burger I got her on the way home-after she fell off the back seat of the car and onto the floor-I didn't even know it and she didn't make a peep when it happened. I looked back and she was gone. I freaked out-Bruno looked at me like I had lost it-I got out to look for her and there she was with a "where did the window go?" look on her face. She rode like that til we got home and when I opened the door she just looked up with that sweet face-this isn't so bad! 

Anyway, they decided to do IV antibiotic and some fever reducing medicine. She has a port? whatever on her front leg all bandaged up. They were going to keep her overnight, but there's no one there (and I think they are nearly full with some bad cases) so they decided to give her the meds tonight, and then I have to go there between 6:30-7:30 (and I asked-in the morning?) to get her next dose. Not sure what happens after that. I am glad she got to come home. 

I need to ask about relieving her potty wise if necessary. 

I also need to ask how you can tell when the cutaneous histiocytosis has mutated (or whatever) into the malignant version. 

We did talk about a MRSA. They have tested and haven't seen one there yet, but hey...and they did say people are asking about them. 

I don't even know what those two meds were because I didn't get a bill tonight-I am starting a tab. The last tab I had was a heck of a lot more fun. 

Right now she's in her condo crate looking a little more alert and waiting for the next snack! 

Thank you all for the information and help. When do you know if your dog is not going to get better?


----------



## Tula

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean, I am recently lost in this thread. What have they/or have they not decided it is? You can give me the cliff notes version


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Well the pathology report said that her lump was an infection. 

So that is what I guess we are going on. 

That seems so short! If nervousness were words my Cliff notes would be unabridged. 

So I guess we don't know because it's not responding like an infection-I believe it may be responding like a malignancy. That is my GUESS. Or maybe MRSA. Why not? Like her lump-which is large but smaller than last Friday-should be WAAAAY smaller than it is. 

I probably shouldn't type when I am so confused-sorry Tula!


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Can they identify what type of infection that is causing the lump?

Is it a bunch of little things going on with her, or has the vet taken a look at the big picture? Any ideas as to what would cause all of the problems that she is having if they put all the symptoms together?

Definitely need Dr. House the vet..

Prayers for you guys are being said on a steady basis


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean,

Oh my god, I just read this entire thread!







(I'm a bit bug-eyed at the moment.)

POOR NINA!!!!! I had no idea all of this was going on. (Given the multitude of Bear's recent problems, I kinda lost track of things... I am SO sorry! PLEASE give Nina some major catch up hugs & kisses from me!!!!














)

I have a question... As I read about all of Nina's symptoms, all I kept thinking was SLE. (Sorry if this has already been discounted) Has the vet mentioned anything about lupus??!! The lesions, the occasional lameness, the kidney issues... it seems so textbook? *[From a "human" medical site: "Some call it the “great imitator,” because its symptoms vary so widely that it is often mistaken for other disorders. Systemic lupus erythematosus, often referred to simply as lupus, is a serious disease affecting the joints, kidneys, and skin...." 

<u>Canine Symptoms:</u>

These may include:

Fever

Lameness

Easy bruising

Skin lesions, such as scabs, sores on the paws and inside the mouth, crusted feet, excessive dandruff and hair loss 

Scabs on the tips of the ears and on the tip of tail 

Loss of appetite

Lethargy and reluctance to walk due to joint pain 

Enlarged liver (hepatomegaly)

Enlarged spleen (splenomegaly) 

Enlarged lymph nodes (lymphadenopathy)

Kidneys frequently are affected. The microscopic filters of the kidney (called glomeruli) are affected resulting in loss of large amounts of protein in the urine. Kidney failure also may contribute to the anemia observed in animals with systemic lupus erythematosus.*

Sorry to throw more confusion in the mix, but I couldn't help thinking about this. Here's a link: SLE Info 

Loves & hugs to Nina!!! The other sweetest big bear I know!!! xoxoxo


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Just read about Nina, hope the IV abx is working and she's now feeling better.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Aw Jean, so it continues! I can just imagine sweet Nina the way you described her falling off the back seat. You are a wonderful person in the way you care for these dogs.


----------



## Tula

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

that's ok, Jean. You have plenty going on... you don't need to worry about whether or not others understand!!! My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Amy brings up a real good suggestion. I can't believe none of us thought of this! Go Amy, go!!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*



> Originally Posted By: ThreeDogsCan they identify what type of infection that is causing the lump?


They have not yet done a culture. They send aspirate (fluid from the lump) for pathology, and got back a very generic report, basically amounted to it being an infection. But without a culture and sensitivity, the organism and the appropriate med cannot be identified.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

ThreeDogs-thanks for the prayers-they are appreciated. I think everyone is stumped. I know the other vets are looking at it too and I think everyone is having a hard time seeing the big picture. Yes, what is causing that infection-how is she having a fever while on antibiotics (the Baytril)? 

Amy-I will mention lupus today. That's kind of a joke with my vet because I see lupus everywhere I look.







You never know-her biopsy was in September and that is when we found out it was the cutaneous histiocytosis-but who knows what could be happening since September. Apparently quite a bit! And I think once you have one autoimmune happening the others may perk up and say oh, how can we help attack your body as well?!?

Gayle, Alison, and Tula-thank you so much. It helps to get feedback and support. 

Nina's Saturday Update:
She slept very soundly last night. I checked on her a couple of times and she was out. No messing with her bandage! This morning at 5:45 I heard her growl-or something-and when I went to check her she was just looking at me like hello! I guess she was groaning. I got her up and out and she did do pee, then I put her in the car with 8 packs of paper towels between the front and back seats so she couldn't fall. So there's a tip for anyone with a car! It worked. 

Her temp is 104 this morning.







Which IS 1.3 degrees lower, so that's good. But I let them keep her for the day so they could give her the abx more easily and also check that temp throughout the day. And also because instead of lifting her in and out of the car two more times it would be easier for her to stay. I went home and got all her stuff (and wrote out instructions like a maniac) and her bed and took it back over. Good thing they are close! I lurked in the lobby for a while...I brought them a big bag of fruit and Hershey's kisses so that they would remember to check on her often (eat a kiss, look in on Nina







). They are so busy today. The holiday too coming up-bad timing. 

They don't have anyone overnight or on Sundays so I am going to work out a deal to bring her home and then bring her back at their convenience on Sunday. 

I am going to ask today about Cornell. I always feel like you are saying-you are an idiot and I would like to see the REAL vets, please, but at this point, I think she's making us all look pretty dumb! The one vet came out and I said fix her and she said I haven't a clue (she's Canadian and speaks all polite







). I think it might be a localized histiocytic sarcoma. How do you test for that? I have no idea. 

As always, Nina was a good girl and does that little squinty thing when I smooch her. I am going to see if I have an extra St. Francis medal to put on her collar. Kramer's looking for her right now and didn't want his breakfast. 

I bought some chocolate pudding for me...I think I'll ask them to put in an IV line in for that...they refused to give me a fentanyl patch. 

I am just glad that she's okay with staying there-they are even calling her Aunt Clara. Kramer would have a nervous breakdown. Still-I can't wait to go pick her up! 

Thank you all again.


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

I guess I was just wondering if the cutaneous histiocytosis is also a symptom of SLE??? (And not a "disease" simply unto itself.) It seems like Nina has the classic flares: Lameness, fever, lesions, "potty" (kidney) problems, etc. 

When I read up on the cutaneous histiocytosis, it sounded like this is a common and isolated problem for many dogs, and is not associated with <u>all of her other</u> presentations.(?) And in one of the SLE articles that I read it said that skin issues (lesions, lumps, etc.) are usually the first noticed issues for SLE dogs and more often than not are misdiagnosed as some other problem. (Sorry, I think I am like you with the lupus... but we both have doggies with odd issues so I know we both research all these autoimmune things a lot!)

Good luck at the Vet!! And send Nina some more hugs & kisses from us!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

The cutaneous histiocytosis isn't common-that's more the cutaneous histiocytoma. I need to flowchart this stuff! It can spontaneously resolve, but that hasn't happened since it started in July. I am concerned that since September it has switched into the systemic type or histiocytic sarcoma, which can happen as it proresses. Or perhaps added Lupus to the mix!

The biopsy from September (from 4 areas) gave us the diagnosis of CH. I am guessing if Lupus was there THEN it would have shown up. But it is definitely CH. All these other things are new-like...really, really new (last 2-3 weeks).









So maybe her CH has made SLE flare up in her. It would make sense to me. I will talk to him today about it. Thank you!


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Ahh, okay.

Poor baby, good luck today!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Has an ANA test ever been run. That can test for lupus, right? It can also be elevated in tick diseases


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Update Nina Lump/Mass-Benign cutaneous histi*

I was so mind blasted when I called the vet I didn't even bring up Lupus. And am kicking myself-but have a feeling I will be talking to them again, of course. 

Nina is staying at the vet overnight. We will negotiate tomorrow, but may just be visitation-depending on how she's doing. 

She still has the fever, BUT, when they took her out for potties they noticed her leg looked wet. That big huge breast implant lump had begun to leak.







So he opened it up and said that the odor was just unbelievable and all sorts of "stuff" pinky w/pus, came out. He got some for a culture. So that lab was right about it being an infection, I guess. But he is not convinced that is all that it is and we are going to address that after her fever goes down and we see where she is at. All three vets there today were reviewing her case. We talked about Cornell-they are really open more for emergencies right now because during this part of the holiday, they kind of shut down. Duh-of course, it's a teaching hospital. But we can get to that later. 

So she's staying overnight, getting her IV antibiotics, and they will call tomorrow morning sometime. Cleverly







I only packed her supper and breakfast, so if she has to stay, I will have to go see her. Actually, I wasn't thinking so clearly and just did those meals. They didn't want me to bring her home because of the amount of "stuff" still coming out of her. I really am hoping her fever breaks. Right now that is my obssessive thought. 

I took her meals (and treats, and her head donut if needed) over and fluid is definitely still coming out. She looks good-I hate leaving her there overnight-but having seen her I feel more okay with it. She looks better than she has since Wednesday. She was just laying there calmly with her head up looking around and ate a whole snap biscuit, then waited for me to stop petting her so she could start licking her Chewlotta (hospital junk food time)! She ate throughout the day too, so she's not nervous and hasn't lost her appetite. Three years ago (almost) when I got her this would not have been possible-there would be a muzzle, orange stickers galore, diarrhea and she wouldn't have eaten. But now she knows that the people there are good and want to help her. 

They showed me the area and let me tell you the smell when they put her leg down (it was like a fireplace bellows blowing the odor at me) almost made me dry heave. I see why they wanted her to stay. Also, I am not good with that kind of thing. But the lump is so much smaller, it is unreal. Her leg is still swollen-I would guess last to fill, last to clear? 

I talked to wound care nurse Melinda-so I feel better about all of this-not great, not calm, but better. One day at a time! 

And funny-I saw a black and white dog in the kennel across from hers and it was HUGE. I thought that has to be the biggest Great Dane...it was...a calf.









Thank you Ruby-she will appreciate it. I know I do.


----------



## GSD10

*Re: Update Nina Lump/Mass-Benign cutaneous histi*

Oh Jean I had not realized that this was going on with Nina. Oh poor girl. Sending well wishes your way from me and the Mas


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTHas an ANA test ever been run. That can test for lupus, right? It can also be elevated in tick diseases


Lisa, Yes, you are correct that they can run an ANA test. In humans you have to match at least 4 out of 7 criteria for lupus and there are 3 different forms of lupus, (SLE being the most severe or life-threatening). However, cutaneous or reactive histiocytosis in of itself is not a form of lupus, different autoimmune illness. Unfortunately I have first-hand knowledge of both. And yes, Jean, the histio. can turn into malignant histio. It is much more common in the Bernese Mountain Dog. Do you think Sean and Nina are part Berner?


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean,

I am sorry that Nina has to spend the night at the vet (everyone at your house must be in a tizzy!) but glad that thing did not bust out the stinky frog when she was home! Guess that explains the fever! I hope you find her much improved tomorrow. We are sending our healing energy all the way from Cincinnati!


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Awww, Ninabadina at the vet overnight!









I'm sure Nina will be fine.... but poor Jean!!!!









I'm glad (?) the swelling-thing broke, but I hope you can get more answers asap about Nina's condition. 

Have a good night, and let us know how things go tomorrow!


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Thanks for the comprehensive update.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean I would ask about the Lupus. Also just a thought with the amount of jumk in the yuk pocket and I would guess that it was starting to leach out on the inside of poor Nina that might count for some of the other things going on. Apparently the Antibioitcs weren't the right ones or weren't strong enough.

Let's hope the sweet little Nina gal is feeling better now because she has Momma Jean and all of us so worried about her.

Hugs to you guys.


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Sorry Jean, I hadn't seen this either. Prayers being said!


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

Jean,

sorry to hear she is in the hospital, but glad that lump "burst". I am surprised they didn't "explore" it more before. Sounds like a major pus pocket - like cats get when they get a bite wound. We had a rabbit that developed mastitis and after hotpackiing her breast, it burst in a similar fashion - lots of "yuckie stuff" came out! She immediately felt better once the abscess released!

Keeping you both in our thoughts! Hoping for good news today!!!!!!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Results! Lump/Mass--NinaBenign cutaneous histi*

How's she doing today?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thank you all so very much! Yes-we are all glad that thing is gone. Last week it was not an abcess type lump-that's the weird thing-it was a mass. This week-pop. The bad thing is that there may be a lump (may be as in is it a real lump or another imposter lump) underneath where the infected lump was. So that is the one thing that is holding back my enthusiasm. Interesting about the rabbit!

But Nina's home-very nice to have her back! The two vets (two on a SUNDAY-when the clinic is closed-that's crazy) that were there were not her regular vet so I didn't talk about lupus or anything other than her discharge information. I take Bella in for stitch removal and maybe will get a chance tomorrow. At this point if there is more to deal with I kind of would like it to be lupus. 

Her temp was down (low actually a bit- 99.8). So yay to that! There is no drain because there is actually a hole there.







It's still leaking, too, which is good. Her lower hind leg is still swollen, but slightly less so. Her other hind leg is dragging more though-not sure what that is about-like the paw is made of rubber. But I do know she has to be exhausted from this and my butt would be dragging too after all she's gone through. It's just hard to watch. 

I am to put warm compresses on 2x a day and she is on abx 3x a day, waiting for the culture results to come back to see if there is a better abx for her. I am not even sure they think her skin will heal-I don't know what that means either. I usually am pretty good with having a system/idea of how to progress, but at this point I am not at all sure of anything. It just makes it harder to plan when you haven't any idea of what you are doing! Like if someone asked me to help program a submarine or something. It would be all on them and that would make me nervous!

Kramer is looking at her like a friend looking at someone who is really sick. Everyone else just wants to know what the heck happened to her. 

She ate, had a treat and went out to potty-she wouldn't let me help her down the stairs, but I used her suitcase harness to get her up. That suitcase harness is the best thing. And when I need to I supplement with a sling. She did 2 pees and a poop! YAY! She's resting now-lunch and pills were at 3! Of course she's been sweet and nice and her usual cute self. I am so glad I decided to foster her. And then lie about knowing who she was. And then kept her.









So, all in all a very good day because that is how we are going to roll-one day at a time and look for a plan to help that out. 

Thanks again everyone-Marlene-isn't it weird that at least some of this is something that generally does not effect GSDs (and that has to be a smaller list) but Berners and some of the retrievers sometimes? I just hope no one else needs to use this information anytime soon. 

Thanks.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN.....Kramer is looking at her like a friend looking at someone who is really sick. Everyone else just wants to know what the heck happened to her. .....


Awwww, that's just sweet.


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Quote:I am so glad I decided to foster her. And then lie about knowing who she was. And then kept her.












We're all glad too! Especially Nina!









Happy to hear that she's home. And I can kinda picture what you mean about the rubber paw thing--remember when that happened with the Bear?! And then after her meds it went away and has not come back.







Weird!

Tell Kramer to stop looking at her like that







and just be happy she's home! LOL

xoxo to Ms Nina!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean, with the skin not healing.... Possibly the Vet's are thinking with the mass possibly leaking for a while and draining now that it might have done or might now infect the skin, then it wouldn't heal. Then they would have to cut away from of the skin and find healthy edges to work with.

Glad she is home, I am sure you and Kramer were missing her.

Val


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean...have you told the story about lying about knowing who Nina was yet?!?!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: Melinda&JayJean...have you told the story about lying about knowing who Nina was yet?!?!


I have not heard that story and anxiously await its telling!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted By: Melinda&JayJean...have you told the story about lying about knowing who Nina was yet?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> I have not heard that story and anxiously await its telling!
Click to expand...

OH! It is FUNNNYYYY!!!!
"Nina? Hmmm...Not sure I know who that is..."


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*










Oh, this has got to be good.......


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Kramer also goes out with her and makes sure I am picking her up right.







It's like having a supervisor! Amy-I blanked on Bear's foot doing that-it would be great if that were the case. She actually does seem a little better. She had her supper, then when I did the compress, a treat. I think I need to find something else because she can't have a 5 minute long type treat 2x/day! You guys, that hole is like a crater. Blah! But she was great about the compress. 

Val, that makes a lot of sense what you just said. It was a new vet who didn't know how I would obsess about what she said all day until I got to ask Nina's regular vet. 

Okay, the big Nina lie story.









We were at this event at a pet food store called Dog Daze, in Syracuse. I was there with two puppy fosters, and Melinda and Jay were there and people were coming up to the BrightStar booth. A very nice lady named Phyllis came over and was talking to me. She'd been on the website and a pretty black dog named Nina had caught her eye. Nina was my foster. I really thought Phyllis was a great lady. But, when she asked me if I knew anything about Nina, I was like...Nina...Nina...which one is she again? I am not sure I know who that is. Then she told me an older black GSD-I said I think I know who you are talking about and I can see what I can find out about her and let you know (figuring she'd drop it and that would be it-forgetting that Melinda and Jay knew that I had Nina







). Meanwhile, I had started to tear up because I







Nina a lot. 

So then a little later, Melinda meanders over and we are all talking and I realized...uh oh...Phyllis is going to ask about Nina. I am not sure exactly what happened next because I started to feel a little like a cornered animal when I realized I was going to be caught in my lie, but eventually the truth came out and Phyllis was incredibly sweet about it. She ended up adopting a very lucky dog from BrightStar. 

That was pretty embarassing though! I mean-that was a flat out, running for office, 3 year old with the stolen peanut butter on the face kind of lie!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Ya know, though...Phyllis is soooo in lurve with Kelley, that she ended up adopting...It all worked out. Besides, the stairs in her hosue would have confused Aunt Clara.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

And at this point, the fewer stairs the better! 

It was embarassing having to admit to Melinda (foster coordinator-even better) that I had lied to a potential applicant. To her face. Yikes. 10 Hail Marys!


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

"God will get you for that, Walter".

I am so mad you were in Syracuse and we didn't meet up! 

That story is yet another reason why I think you need your own reality show.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

This is SO funny! I can just imagine you trying to talk your way out of that one! But all's well that ends well so Nina must have put you up to it!









Glad she is doing ok tonight.


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

It was FUNNY!
It took Jean until that point to realize what the rest of us knew- Nina wasn't going ANYWHERE!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








And I wondered if I was just being selfish or if it was best for Nina to stay with me--until the day my nephew came over to see the dogs. He was 3 and I let him give them treats through the fence-from the other side. Nina especially was hanging around and I was thinking maybe I screwed up-maybe she could have been a pet dog. Crap-selfish! Then she left the fence area to go potty and when she turned around and saw him she went ballistic-charging the fence, barking, snapping-who the heck was THAT kid?!?!?!? Poor Nina-and my nephew wasn't so sure he liked that bear dog anymore. Whoops. But that's when I knew-good choice in keeping her!









She's been doing really well with her potties. I am so happy to see her going regularly! She just kind of lurches down the stairs-and then I use her suitcase harness to carry her up. She actually played with a squeaky toy outside-very cute, so when I was out I picked her up a little hedgehog toy for her bed. She grabbed that and squeaked it and is keeping a very good eye on it. And of course Miss Nina is eating heartily. I think she's walking a little better too. 

I got a look at the hole yesterday and it is even bigger than I thought. I mean-I got lightheaded (which is not the same as a normal person maybe, but still bad even for me). I am glad dogs don't know how scary things like that are! The other dogs want to touch it and I have to herd them away. She likes to go out with them though. 

This morning she played for quite a while with the squeaky that she snuck out with her (which made me laugh). Then on the way in, I didn't have to totally lift her up the stairs, she was able to assist me with that to some extent. 

Waiting for the culture information. My vet is still thinking it is something that is malignant lurking in there and I think he could be right given what she has and how it works sometimes-I have to be realistic. BUT I'm not counting her out until I know for sure what her deal is...she's a tough old bird and I think it is just as realistic to think that this could be some wacko infection. And as long as there are squeakies to be squeaked and meals to be savored, she's a happy girl!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! It sounds like Ms Nina is feeling pretty peppy - what great news!!! I love the fact that the little stinker sneaked her toy outside to play with it!!!








New Year's cyberhugs to Ms Nina and Mr Kramer and your other guys too!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Thanks, Gayle!

That silly went down to her special snow/ice spot last night-her longest walk since she got home. At midnight of course-so I was calling her softly-and she wouldn't come back until she was done! Best disobedience ever.







When she was on her way back, she even trotted toward me for a few steps. Then went up the stairs with very little assistance. She's a very tough girl.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

OH Jean, Glad to hear that Nina is moving a little better and feeling just good enough to flip you the furry paw for a bit.









So let's hope that Nina knows her body better than the Vet's and it is just an infection or mult-organism infection that caused the mass.

Val


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Aww, that's so great to hear!! Love the toy-sneaking too!









I love the DIS-OB!! LOL "Hey, I'll come when I ready... jeez..." (Why is always the least opportune times that they choose to be such goofs??!!)


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

<span style="color: #3333FF"> Ok...I just got all caught up here. OY!









I don't have any advice...but wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and Nina.

{{{HUGS}}}}







and I am here if you want to talk!</span>


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

How is Nina doing? Has the wound stopped draining? How is it looking? When do you expect the results of the culture back?

So many questions but I keep checking back and nothing!


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: ThreeDogsHow is Nina doing? Has the wound stopped draining? How is it looking? When do you expect the results of the culture back?
> 
> So many questions but I keep checking back and nothing!


Yes, updates please.

(((hugs))) Nina and Jean.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thanks everyone! I was waiting for our appt. today to update.









She has flipped me the paw a few more times-sweetly of course. She just pretends she doesn't hear me. But since she can hear the turtle at the groomer's office moving in his aquarium, I am pretty sure she can hear me calling her name.







Good for her though!

Thank you all again. The difference between this week and last week is really almost shocking to me. In a GREAT way. Knock on wood-I am so afraid for some kind of relapse because this has been so up and down. 

The wound is still draining. According to my vet it is looking really good. I am still horrified by it, but am also a squeamish person. But if he and the tech like the looks of it, I am happy!

The culture-I am not sure-with the holiday that slows it down. I am not sure how long it usually takes just to run it-3 days? I hope it comes in soon. 

I smelled a little...odor...and figured let's get her in before the weekend-but the odor is okay. I'll keep a "nose" on it of course. 

We went in and she got right on the scale like a pro and when we went in the room she started hopping up to leave. HOPPING. That was something! She got a lot of petting from her receptionists friends too and compliments on how good she looked. She eats that stuff up.







They are also recommending that harness. 

Her tech came in and could not believe it. She gave Nina smooches on the head. We looked at Nina's hiney butt sores-improving, her chin-scabbed up, and her nicely uniform hind legs. No big leg o' lamb leg now! Temp was just high normal. 

Then the vet came in and looked at Nina, then at me, and of course I was smiling like...a total goof! We had quite a talk about the difference between last week and this week-in very good ways. I told him when he was talking to me last week, he sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher with the only identifiable word being cancer. He really was surprised at her. He thought she would be better (since I wasn't parked outside the clinic) but not this much better. I am so afraid of jinxing this of course! The lump under the lump-seems to be gone. I almost shook him when he said that. Probably not a typical response-I am not sure where my aggression is coming from! 

The hole is doing well too-it's going to be difficult to heal because it's in a high motion area. I am concerned about that-and don't understand the concepts of how things heal in areas like that. Keep up with the compresses (and the DMG-viva la DMG) for now and a recheck on her birthday January 14. I had told Nina that if she got better, I'd get her steak for her birthday and I hope I am going to be grilling that day. 

I appreciate all these positive thoughts for her. I am going to keep a very close eye on her from now til the 14th.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean,

That is WONDERFUL news!!!!!!! Rafi is doing the Snoopy dance for Nina and Chama is cheering him on!


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

So happy to hear she is improving so much!!! What a relief, you were not posting updates and I must admit to being a bit concerned for all of you. Perhaps if the wound is open that much, maybe they would consider stitching it up?

I will pray for the grill to be lighted!! We'll all light up our grills in celebration!


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

WOW Jean! This is great news. Nice to read she is improving. I really hope it all continues.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

January 14th will be Nina's Birthday Grill Day! Could it be the first Canadian-American shared Holiday? She will dance with Rafi! She actually is doing her dinner dance and even pushed her crate door open this morning to see what was taking me so long making her pill meatballs. 

I was afraid to post-I thought I was seeing things that I wanted to see. I still think that we'll be going to a dermatologist and will ask for that referral on the 14th, just to get a better handle on the histio, which I believe started this mess. 

But for tonight, after my meeting, we will celebrate. Catnip, pills and treats! Not sure what the pets will have.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Nina's birthday is the day before mine! What a special girl. We will all be celebrating with her, it will be a good grill day!.

Hang in there Jean, one day at a time.

Hugs


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

You said it Tammy. That is the way we go now. 

She's almost your birthday sister!







Close enough!!! 

I got her a little something for her birthday. http://www.2houndsdesign.com/A-Rose-is-a-Rose-is-a-Rose-pr-368.html I NEVER spend money on the dogs that isn't health/food/vet related anymore. Okay-93 cent toys-I will do that. The cats get their treats and then their toys are so much cheaper (the big twistie ties, tinfoil balls...LOL-love the kitties). 

When Nina was so sick last weekend I had a true moment of insanity. I think I was looking for an endorphin release from buying something. I mean-she was sick and I bought her a really expensive collar-so irrational. But I saw it and thought it looked like her and would match her harness and I am hoping it comes in time for her birthday (still not firing on all sanity pistons here). It's a side buckle martingale-so if she has any chin sores I can take it off more easily. So there is at least one practical point to it. 

Plus I wear plastic shoes most of the time.







So I guess it's not like I am splurging all over the place! I also wanted to share that website with you-they are really beautiful collars. I'll let you know about the quality. 

I did NOT get the velvet leash. Not because I was being smart, but because all I could picture was the hair sticking to it grossing me out and me walking around with a plastic covered velvet leash (HOW ITALIAN-my family would call me Aunt Mary)!


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Oh how pretty. That does look like Nina. She will wear that well!

She deserves to be splurged on a bit, with all she has gone and is going through.

I might have to splurge and get one of those for Jarie.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thank you Tammy! I wonder what Jarie would like for hers?

They have SO many patterns! Some have matching cloth leashes. It was a good distraction, too.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

OH Jean that is great news. I really hope Nina flips you the furry paw for several years. 

The healing in a high motion area is and will be very slow. Actually with the drainage still going on slow is good. You will start to see a difference in skin color and texture on the edges. Is it a circular type hole or elongated. I think enlongated heals a little faster, you will see at the narrowest points the skin starts to grow and mesh together, the skin will grow on the entire opening, but at the narrowest points you will see it meshing together and the wound closing. With a circular the skin starts growing on the edges and any area where it can touch another edge it will start to mesh.

As far as the drainage it is a good thing, her body is working to get rid of all the junk. I am going to assume that she is still taking Antibioitics, so the chance of new infection isn't there and the ABX are still working on the gems that came from the lump mass. I am sure it isn't pretty but that junk needs to be able to drain or you could end up with another mass. 

I am glad her body is starting to function better. I am still hoping that it was just a mass with infection in it that was leaking into her body and raising all kinds of havoc with her system. 

So give that sweet little girl a hug from me and sloppy kisses from my dogs. We are still on the positive thought train here for Nina.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Val, I really hope so! 

This is good information-thank you. The hole is a little on the elongated side. Kind of like a ghost's mouth in a cartoon, if that makes sense. 

She's still on abx 3x/day. I am glad it's still draining, too. I have layers in her bed to make it easier to keep clean. She doesn't seem to mind any of this. 

That mass w/infection idea-I also hope that's right. We lowered the terror warning considerably today, I believe. 

I will give her some XOXO from Wisconsin! THANKS!


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Hey Jean,

I think Jarie would like this one.
http://www.2houndsdesign.com/Cosmic-Purple-pr-144.html

Her Birthday is in February, so that will be her gift from me.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

THAT is so pretty-and cool. Perfect for a girl's birthday! I thought it was here today but the package was just drugs.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Aw Jean, what great news! I have watched this thread closely and now I feel bad that I wasn't a better cheerleader. Please know that you were both very close in my thoughts throughout. What a wonderful mom you are, but I'm sorry for all the stress it has caused. Every time Max stumbles or Murphy does something weird, my heart just stops, so I can just imagine what you've been through.

Love the collar and I think you both deserved a little splurge! Plastic shoes - had to laugh at that one. I bought myself some boots to walk in the snow this week and I felt so guilty. All I could think about was the 2 acupuncture treatments Max had the week before, his supplements I ordered, his new boots, etc. etc. Don't mind a bit spending the money on him, but I felt SO guilty because I bought boots. Geesh - what we put ourselves through!!!


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

I am so glad to hear this news, and that I am not the only one with plastic shoes.


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: KShort....Love the collar and I think you both deserved a little splurge! Plastic shoes - had to laugh at that one. I bought myself some boots to walk in the snow this week and I felt so guilty. All I could think about was the 2 acupuncture treatments Max had the week before, his supplements I ordered, his new boots, etc. etc. Don't mind a bit spending the money on him, but I felt SO guilty because I bought boots. Geesh - what we put ourselves through!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....


You guys are too funny -- I thought I was the only one that thought that way!!!!

The collars are absolutely lovely







. The red will look stunning on the black too!

Jean, that's pretty amazing about the sore. Did you start the DMG? How long ago? Do any of Nina's supplemnets have zinc in them?


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI had told Nina that if she got better, I'd get her steak for her birthday and I hope I am going to be grilling that day.


Jean, I hope it's filet mignon. Nina deserves the best.







We're rooting for her.


----------



## luvmysheps

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean I can't believe I missed this whole thing. I found it yesterday at work and had to read 13 pages before I had to get back to work before I got in trouble. I am so glad that Nina is doing better and I am sending lots of hugs and kisses and prayers for Nina and you.

Your love and devotion to your dogs is an inspiration to me. You are the best.


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

I think I'll have to get one of those as well!! They are gorgeous, made for a princess. 

I can't wait for you to post pictures of her wearing that collar..she is going to look so beautiful...

I am all for the First Annual American-Canadian Nina Grill Day!! 

Of course I really hope the weather co-operates!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








We should post pictures of our wonderful footwear in this thread! Remember when Jerry Seinfeld did that little bit about aliens watching us picking up dog poop and them assuming that the dogs were in charge...

Lisa-I started her on the DMG on Monday after deciding there wasn't too much that it could do to make things worse. I don't think she's on anything with zinc. I remember that helped Bella's paw pads a lot. Are there any supplements you know of or just a zinc pill or what? Trying to avoid more pills-looking always for powders and liquids! I was thinking of getting the Colloidal Silver for her (to put in her food) and have been asking if anyone has used it/had any experiences with it, but I think it scares people! I also read about coconut oil for the skin (taken internally). 

Thank you all for the kindness. I know I am doing what you do for your dogs, too-that whole Golden Rule thing. She is getting better because of so many things and I include your positive thoughts and prayers as one of those things. 

I am looking forward to our Nina's Birthday Grill Holiday! I'll try to get pictures of her eating her birthday steak on the 14th-I'll have to work fast-she's been SUCH a piggy girl-if she were a person I would be worried that she would malinger for the treats!









Her collar came today-it is beautiful. There's more gold than I thought-so kind of razzle dazzle-but stunning on the black coat. And the lining is so soft! I showed it to her and she tried to take it from me (in her mouth-to chew-LOL). I'll get a picture-I am not going to make her wait til her birthday







to wear it. Maybe now people will think she's a girl (probably not).









She is also not wearing her harness 24-7 as of today because she is coming up the stairs (with a homemade mini-ramp) on her own. Need a fingers crossed little graemlin! I'll be using it for the car and any time we go anywhere, but for today, she's nekkid! 

She's fairly cooperative with her compresses-she gets nervous-poor thing. I have a few girls here who love to air it out, so to speak, and unfortunately, she is not one of them. But she is doing well (knock wood)! THANKS!


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

I used a product called Nutrazinc . It is a powder and you use just a tiny bit.

I would stay away from Colliodal Silver. Google it, probably the warnings - it can build up in the body and cause heavy metal poisoning.

Coconut oil is great. My dogs will eat it right off the spoon. Here is a site with some good info - they even have coconut flour for those of you making dog treats!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

I have taken colloidal silver myself. Small doses, and short term. I have also used on the dogs when ill. (Sick-sick, not just a case of the oozypoops)


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

jean, thank you for the sweet words -- I too hope those thoughts are helping Nina!!

I just use a zinc pill for both the of the dogs. But before you add that, are you giving any type of multivitamin? Anything that has the complement of B vitamins? Biotin?

I've always been intrigued by colloidal silver, but have always hesitated using it.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

I love that collar and I'm so happy Nina is doing so well. 

My boss has used colloidal silver for herself and their dogs and has always had good results.

Happy New Year to Jean and your packmembers. This news has been a great start to this year.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Have any of you seen the "blue man" whose been appearing on the talk shows recently? He's been using colloidal silver for years - drinking it and rubbing it on his face. Under the article of the link below, is a blog where some bloggers feel his "blue" condition is not from the silver but from something else. They say if it were from the silver he'd be gray, not blue. 
http://www.healthbolt.net/2007/12/24/blue-man-exposed/


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

That's just wierd. Sounds like someone on that blog though knows a bit about colloidal silver?!?


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*










Waiting patiently here for an update.....









Don't leave us hangin!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thank you all again-I appreciate your concern for Nina. 

Thanks for the zinc and coconut links! That coconut looks great and all the sizes-very cool. I am not giving a vitamin. I only buy dog pills-flavored things, because she's a pill picker. Any good suggestions on those?







at these hard to pill dogs. 

I need to stop researching and start ordering. I have severe analysis paralysis. Is there a pill for that? (probably amphetamines would work)

I am officially going to avoid the colloidal silver after that blue man article.







Well, okay, that's not why-I am just still so unsure and want to make sure it doesn't do anything to the immune system-that's what I am concerned with-giving her anything to wake that baby up. I am all ears for suggestions of course!

So Nina has been going up and down stairs, wandering around the yard, playing a little and just seeming to be doing well in general and overall (knock wood of course). She is soaking up the attention and treats and is being so good for all the things she has to put up with. 

She is now on Baytril because that culture came back with two things that would respond to that and not the Keflex. The good news is that she actually likes the Baytril (it's liver flavored). I think her other sores from the histio are doing better, too. 

I had a little freak out last night because the...hole...(gack) looked very red and raw. After a hit of the smelling salts...I e-mailed Melinda and she talked me down. I think Nina was licking it. She's a sneaky licker (because I have bionic ears when it comes to licking-"who's licking" is like a call to attention here-everyone puts their heads up and says NOT ME!) so she got to wear her donut. Today it looks pink and firm. Can I tell you guys how deep it is though-you can see (please skip ahead if you don't want to get a little nauseous) down into her inner thigh-inside it. <shivers> 

ANYWAY! We go to the vet on Monday for a recheck. Her harness is all clean so I can help her in the car, but I am thinking Nina will have other thoughts about me helping her. I believe I will ask about seeing a dermatologist just to get a handle on the histio. I should also ask about lupus. And of course Monday is her 11th birthday (and Ava's closest guess 5th birthday). 

Here she is wearing her birthday present! Excuse the nose smears on the window. The maid is not good at daily cleaning of those.









What's a gal got to do to around here to get inside the house?


----------



## kelso

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

nice collar!! she looks very pretty







hope she continues to feel better! lots of good thoughts for Nina....


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Jean, don't let miss sneaky lick the wound, it will actually slow the healing process.. 

Love the Pretty collar. Give sweetie a hug for me.

Glad to hear the cultures finally came back. Bayril is one of the Antibioitics that has a pretty broad spectrum of things it works on.

Her nose sores may heal up now that she is on Baytril.

Val


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thank you!! I was just about to resort to begging.....felt like when I had to wait for the Soprano's finale...

She looks absolutely lovely in her collar.


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Ms Nina looks BEAUTIFUL in her new collar - what a pretty color!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

WOW, Nina! Be still my heart! She looks so gorgeous in that collar! 

And glad to hear she's still on the mend. Thanks for NOT posting a picture of the dreaded hole!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN.... I am not giving a vitamin. I only buy dog pills-flavored things, because she's a pill picker. Any good suggestions on those?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at these hard to pill dogs.


I'm sure that there is a better multi out there, but I give Canine Plus by vetriscience, that I get from kvvet. It's the only vitamin that Indy does okay on, but I temporarily took Max off of it to see if his ears clear up. Indy's been on it for probably 8 years now, and her health always declines when I try something else. It has some kind of liver flavor, so they think it's a treat.

And, yes, she looks stunning in her new collar --


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Mine do well on the Pet tabs plus. The dogs love the taste cause they are "flavored". I have tried the Canine Plus and those were ok, but we do best on the Pet tabs. I also tried the NuVet vitamins and mine shed something awful and a couple got very yeasty! Not worth the price in my book!


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Nina! SO pretty in her beautiful collar!!

Good to see that girl. I hope she has a wonderful birthday despite the vet visit!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Sopranos!

Thanks for the collar compliments-she got to wear it out for the first time today and people told her she looked very snazzy. She is actually enjoying going to the vet office-or isn't bothered by it-you would think after everything, she'd be nervous, but she is just getting so used to being there, I guess! 

So her vet was like...WOW, WOW...as he was laying under her looking at...the hole. He can't believe how good it looks. He also said she looks younger, moves quickly and well, her coat looks great, plus her other sores are looking way better. He cannot believe it. I was giddy-I mean absolutely asininely (is that an okay word to use?) happy to the point of wanting to shake someone (but did hold back on that) when he said that. The hole does look good. It's barely draining. Compresses only a couple of times a day now. Another week of baytril. I am so grateful. 

I thought she was looking better, but you know, is it my wishful thinking or is it real-but what he said confirmed what I thought and made me very happy. 

I went to the store and picked up steak for her and Ava http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=554961&page=0#Post554961
and the rest of them get some meat too (and they will be told to be thankful that Nina is doing well). I have to go to a meeting soon and will cook it up when I get home. 

I am so thankful. 

We are also going to set up a time for her to go to Cornell dermatology, probably in February, to see if this is something that can be prevented with any kind of protocol. 

PS-she wears her donut now to keep her from licking and that's been a lot better. 

Thanks again-I am going to check out those vitamins and get her (and Kramer) on them.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

You are COOKING the steak? Wow, is that ever mean!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Happy 11th birthday dear Nina!!!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Wow...that means Jean is handling raw meat!!!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN..... I was giddy-I mean absolutely asininely (is that an okay word to use?) happy to the point of wanting to shake someone (but did hold back on that) when he said that......


It probably would have been censored had you spelled it correctly







(ducking!!)

LOL -- I don't know how to spell it either, but I couldn't resist









The vet was probably glad that you didn't shake him.....but I know the feeling. What a great way to start the week with the news about Nina *and* Kramer. Great!!


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

She did spell it correctly, though, LOL...


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: Melinda&JayShe did spell it correctly, though, LOL...


REALLY?!?!? shows you what I know!!! Normally I look things up cuz I''m a terrible speller -- shoulda looked that one up. 

Too funny! Look who's feeling asinine now!!!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/asinine


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Yeah-gack-raw meat! There were no complaints though, that it was cooked. Anna's was even a little pink and I had to hand feed her because she would just let the other dogs take it from her. Nina and Ava wouldn't though! 








Now we know more about that word-I love that word!

Nina goes to Cornell on January 29 for a dermatology consultation. Just to see if we are on the right page, heading in the right direction and all that other stuff. I am sure she will enjoy a long ride! Hopefully it will be a good weather day. Our appt. isn't super early so that helps. I think once I do this I can relax a little more. I just don't want that frog to come back.









She's very perky so that's great to see. I am still kind of shocked at everything that's happened. But very happy that we are where we are right now!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Nina went for her re-check today (and shoot-I forgot to get the rabies certificate for Cornell because we didn't have to stop at the desk to pay-doh!) at the regular vet office. Her hind end looks good, her chin is beautiful, and best, the hole is SO much smaller. It's like pinky finger sized. From...very large. We are going to leave it for now and see if it needs a stitch in another couple of weeks. And right now I can't remember if he said there was or wasn't a little lump-that's a bad thing to forget. 

We are going to Cornell on Tuesday, so I'll ask then. I got her paperwork and chest films today. I have a form to bring that I fill out and then I am going to bring pictures of the lump and her sores during a flareup. Again, I will be the person trying to hide my photos at the Kodak picture maker machine! 

Here's Nina the other day-giving me the "put the camera down already" look. She still isn't a fan of the camera! I am trying to make sure she gets the proper attention because with Kramer she's gotten less and she will not demand it like the others.


----------



## kelso

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Ahh! She looks beautious! glad to here she is doing well


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thanks for the update - she does look beautiful!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Thanks! She chased Bruno across the yard tonight!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Give that sweet Nina a hug for me. Tell her that Auntie Val and the gang are happy that she is feeling better.

Just a heads up Jean, with the no stitches healing that Nina has been doing she will have a lot of scar tisse that is going to feel like a bump and she might be really twitchy and sensitive on that area for a while or a long time. 

Val


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*








Awww, now I get to look at TWO furry black faces before bed!

Wooohoo~chasin' the kids!! I'm so glad to hear she's doing well. Love the snow on the head!


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANWe are going to Cornell on Tuesday


Best of luck, keeping Nina and you in my thoughts. Please let us know what they say as soon as you can. Don't forget to bring some treats for the both of you on the ride.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thanks, Val, that's good to know. She's been good about the compresses, but doesn't want anyone checking that area out too closely. She got her hug-little cutie. I think her name should have been Gertie-she acts kind of like a Gertrude.









Thank, Amy-yes! She loves the Bruno-that's her favorite dog, I think. Of course I have to ask about lupus tomorrow! 

Marlene-get this-she's not to have food for 12 hours before her visit! I was totally planning on giving her a bone for the ride, and I was going to get something for me (probably not a bone) but now we'll have to snack on the way back! I am actually going to bring a meal with me for her because she likes to eat!!!! 

Thanks so much! I had the whole day blocked out for work, but now have a meeting at 7 pm, so I am not sure when I'll have a chance to update. ASAP though. 

How long does an initial dermatology appt. typically take?


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Best wishes to you and Nina, Queen of the North, at your appointment tomorrow!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Thanks Gayle! Nina did great at Cornell. They don't want them to eat for 12 hours before the appt. so on the drive down there she was restless! She has a good nose on her-she knew I had food in her bag as soon as she got in the car. 

She was such a good girl there. When we got there and were going to sit down we saw another GSD and thought we'd sit in their section, but she barked and lunged at Nina-from like 20 feet away-that's a big body bubble! And sweet Nina turned and ran. She got a lot of smiles from people for that. Everyone said how pretty she was.









I have to tell you I think I am more confused now than before! BUT, I got some good information on what to do if she has another flare-up. Two different medications for us to use for her, which we have mentioned here, are the tetracycline and niaciamine (or whatever) if the infection starts up again. The dermatologist isn't even sure it's that histio!!!! He is asking for some of the biopsy samples to look at himself. So that's good too-I really didn't know they kept them-or maybe PDFs of the slides or something? But he's seen histio so he'll know what he's looking at more than the pathology lab, I guess. 

Then I was reading tonight and found an article on GSD pyoderma. I had read it before the biopsy, but when the biopsy came back I dropped it. http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/dermatology/German%20shepherd%20pyoderma.htm That sounds familiar. 

It was the biopsy that said histio. So you go with the biopsy, ya know? And I feel like now there's more options for her and we can try to keep her healthy-and watch for those flare-ups. But that one in December-where she couldn't walk-that was just bizarre and I can't explain it and neither can a dermatologist with MANY years of experience (over 30). And that scares me because then how do you prevent it? He just said she was not typical-and it didn't seem like he could tell what it was? I am not sure! I did bring pictures of her sores. 

And I of course asked about lupus and he said no signs that it is that but understood when all the other stuff was going on why we would think it. 

I am thinking I'll ask to have her thyroid checked. Wouldn't that be something if it was that-and why haven't I asked about that before! Nina and I could share our meds!







I do think she has a bit of an IgA deficiency too-not sure what you do about that. Okay in people-nothing. http://www.primaryimmune.org/pubs/book_pats/e_ch04.pdf SO that would make sense with an IgA deficiency that she would be susceptible to infections... http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/immune%20disorders/selective%20IgA%20deficiency.htm Looks like I will be printing and bringing these two things to Kramer's stitch removal! 

Her results were: mean mg/g 0.1725	
Reference Range:
mean mg/g interpretation
< 0.06 very low/ undetectable fecal IgA*
0.06 - 0.22	low IgA/ questionable range*
0.22 - 3.24	within the reference range (normal)
I may need to do that test again. 

SO! That's the report. I wish I could say something better than that! She was outstanding in the exam room. She's so used to having everyone look at her butt now I guess. She's going on 10 more days of Baytril. The dermatologist was wonderful. He was actually one of my vet's professors. 

And Nina was hilarious about her food-I think that was her focus all morning-we stopped to get something to eat on the way home and I made her meal for her-once she got that she was able to sleep. Then I stopped at a Dunkin Donuts for some sugar for me and they gave her 3 donut holes-and since she was so good she got all three. She LOVED them-I'd never given her one of those before-now I know a special treat for her after vet visits. 

So I guess thats it for now. I am going to keep her butt shaved so we can see things as they happen. I may get DermCaps? And wait to hear that dermatologist's interpretation of her biopsies. 

Phew! Thanks!


----------



## amackinpitt

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Wow, that's a lot of info!!







I'm glad they seem to be ruling things out, but I guess it doesn't really help figure out what IS happening!! Oh well, Nina sounds like she's doing so well right now and enjoying herself, her fuzzy pals, and her special new treats! (Personally, I LOVE donut holes too!!!!! mmmm) 

You know, Bear had that weird bout of lameness and then it went away and never came back <knocks on wood>. ('course then we had the whole SLO thing...) Who the heck knows if sometimes they just pinch a nerve or something? Maybe her sores and lameness have no relation to one another at all. OR maybe our black beauties just have more problems than the other kids!! LOL

I thought that was cute that Nina ran away from the GSD bully in the waiting room--Bear would have been right there with her!!









Thanks for the report! Give Nina some big kisses from us!







xo Amy & The Bear


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*

Sending hugs to Nina-- not that she doesn't feel LOVED or nuffin'!







Such a great girl, and I am glad the biopsy is done and with info you can go forward. Cornell is a super place! Sending GOOD WISHES for you and Nina-sweetness!


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Nina's Home! Lump/Mass cutaneous histiocytosis*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI got some good information on what to do if she has another flare-up. Two different medications for us to use for her, which we have mentioned here, are the tetracycline and niaciamine (or whatever) if the infection starts up again.


Jean, that's two of the many meds. Sean is on for his Histio. BTW, it's niacinamide, (500 mg), just for the record.







Glad you were pleased with the dermatology specialist. It sounds like the appointment went well and I'm so glad for Ms. Nina. What a lucky girl to get not 1 but 3 donut holes on the way home, cinnamon or powdered sugar? Please keep us updated when you hear back from the derm. vet on the biopsies. Thinking about both of you.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

Thanks you guys for the good thoughts for Miss Nina. I felt a lot better after those couple of vet appts. 

You will not believe this, but the giant hole is actually closed up. 

Then, just got the call yesterday that Dr. Scott at Cornell read Nina's slides. He says...drumroll...it is NOT histiocytosis! Wow-how can one pathology report be so different from another? I am really confused but thankful because as SRM knows, histiocytosis is a rough, rough road.









I saved the voice mail I got from my vet because I was so excited I didn't really listen to what it WAS! 

I do believe he said pyoderma, deep furunculosis and deep folliculitis, probably bacterial in nature. I think it's the GSD Pyoderma. I'll be bringing her in for a thyroid test soon. So we have to have a Nina party after she gets that bloodwork done. 

http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/dermatology/German%20shepherd%20pyoderma.htm








Viva la Nina!

PS-her donut holes were the traditional hotcake type (plain)


----------



## kshort

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

Oh Jean, that's terrific news!!!







I can't imagine the relief you're feeling right now. So happy for you and Nina!!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

Oh Jean... Happy dance for Nina. I told you that giant hole would heal up. 

Oh I am happy for you and Nina.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*








Yeah, Nina! Glad you took her to Cornell! And glad that







hole closed up. What a relief for you!


----------



## arycrest

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*















Good girl Miss Nina - great news!


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

What an incredible relief!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy day


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHHHH,







GO NINA!!!!! Grimmi and I are dancing for sweetie Nina's FANTASTIC report-- yessss!!!! What a relief this must be for you, Jean.. you have been through so much lately with your Packistan. Sending Nina congratulations-- what super news!!


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*



> Originally Posted By: LisaTWhat an incredible relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## M&J

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

Fantastic news!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI am really confused but thankful because as SRM knows, histiocytosis is a rough, rough road.


Yes, it is. But I am so glad for Nina that she doesn't have to go on the litany of meds. that Sean takes. Give that girl all the donut holes her little heart desires. Doing the happy dance for you.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Update-Nina-Staph Infection*

Update on Nina-

After all that (PHEW) she leveled out and was doing really well. 

Then her fur started to fall out, so she's on thyroid meds. 

Then the other dogs started smelling her butt, so I took her to the vet and the pyoderma is back. Which I guess happens with this.(GSD pyoderma). 

She's been on Baytril for 5 weeks now and not a great improvement. Coconut oil, vitamins, food going to be switched next month from fish based to either duck or lamb. 

The new thing we are looking at adding is Immunoregulin. 
http://www.neogen.com/AnimalSafety/pdf/ProdInfo/Tech_Bulletins/08892.pdf

She is going to the groomer more frequently-she is putting Malaseb shampoo on the sores and using Earth Bath on the rest of her. Nina LOVES the groomer, so it's okay! 

Just thought I'd add to this thread in case others have a dog with this recurring issue. 

Thanks again, Marlene and everyone.


----------

