# My 1 year old GS can't recognize me as me?! (vid included)



## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

I've always noticed that my 1 year old GS freaks out when I get home like he is unable to identify me. This really seemed to happen before when I didn't walk in making noise or just walked in without saying anything, he'd look right at me and just panic like I was a burglar.

More recently he's really started going nuts and last night I recorded it a couple of times, the first video just with him freaking out and in the second video I give him some commands which he happily does and then I tell him to stay, go to the door open and close it, walk back and he no longer knows who I am. It actually got so bad last night that at times I would be petting him he would walk 6 feet away turn his head back and AGAIN panic as if I were an intruder that just came in. 

He has good vision, it seems as he can fetch small balls, sticks in the water, goes for things in the air etc...





 
dog2 - YouTube

I should also mention that he recently is seems as though he is starring at me like he is trying to figure out who I am even when he is relaxed at times. (sort of like alert mode like he's on the fence about what to do) He's usually always at my feet but the other night I noticed he was at the foot my wife's bed and just starred at me like with the strangest look on his face. What could be happening here?!

Thanks,
-Will


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

That is really, really strange.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i wonder if you're bringing home the scent of
something he doesn't like? what kind of guitar
is that?


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## starburst (Jun 9, 2012)

Very strange, Can't wait to hear what the others have to say.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My first thought is a scent...he smells or senses something. Not to scare anyone or sound off the wall....when is the last time you went to the doctor and had a check up? He senses something about you, but I'm not sure what. Is it every time you walk in the door? Certain times when you come from certain places? Hoodie on? Someone help me out here


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Have you ever come home and 'had' to punish him for something? Like if he tore something up or had an accident?

*So you came home, he was happy and greeted you, and then immediately/soon after a huge punishment for something occurrs?*

Because it's not uncommon that we know why we punished the dog (pee spot on the floor) but what the dog thought is they were punished for greeting you happily at the door. 

Unless there is a medical issue going on... wouldn't hurt to get a vet check... this looks like a dog that's becoming timid and shy.

How is he when you are out in the public and on all the socialization trips? How is he in dog classes? How did his littermates turn out? What does the breeder recommend?


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## chloesmama2 (Feb 18, 2012)

My pup has done this. 
One instance is when my husband was wearing an undershirt only (which he usual is always wearing a full shirt.) It scared her for some reason.
We have noticed also that some people that come in the house she is automaticly scared of. My brother for one came over with his family and the other two dogs greeted him and were excited (which she is normally with everyone) but with them she was scared and had her tail between her legs and hid like your dog is doing in the video.) He has a wolf at home and we figure it was the scent. Most dogs love him. My other GSP mix was scared of him as well. The other thing that he does is work at a prison and maybe the scent of something their scares them. 
She also did this with a guy that came over that my daughter is dating. Now he has no animals at all, came in kind of apprehensive and met her. He was showing fear. I think she felt and smelt the fear on him and it scared her off. Not sure.
Everyone else she acts like they are her best friend even if she knows them or not.
Is it your work place scent that is scaring her?????? weird but possible I guess.


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## rooandtree (May 13, 2012)

does he only do with you and not your wife?


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Has he had a good check up recently along with blood work?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

He's obviously afraid or unsure of what he sees. Then as soon as you "identify yourself", he relaxes.

You say he fetches small objects, and fetches in water, but maybe he has difficulty seeing in subdued light.

Would he react this way, if he was outside on a deck, and you came out from behind a tree or a car or something?

I'm guessing that he sees you as a shadow, and is not clearly knowing it's you.

How about redoing that video.....
But instead of opening the door, and walking in.....
Open the door, stay at the entrance, and let him know it's you. Make a sound, call his name, anything.
Would he come to you at that point?

Another question:

Did he ever get destructive in the house, and you came home and got angry at him for it?

Another possibility is that you once walked through that door, and scolded the heck out of him for something.

Also, forgot to ask..... Is he a rescue?
Or did you raise him as a puppy?
Do you know his complete history?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would take him straight to a vet. That is just strange. Are you sure his vision is fine? I see anxiety, even as you were giving him commands (ears back) and the pacing is definitely anxiety.

Thyroid? Vision? Anything that would cause disorientation. If all that is cleared, then I would start working on FEAR and ANXIETY behavior modification. Because that is what I see in his actions.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Anthony8858 said:


> *He's obviously afraid or unsure of what he sees. Then as soon as you "identify yourself", he relaxes.*
> 
> 
> Another possibility is that you once walked through that door, and scolded the heck out of him for something.
> ...


The problem with the part I put in bold, is our dogs should be able to hear/smell/recognize my CAR when I drive up the road, let alone the sound of MY key/my smell when I am entering. My dogs are already jumping and barking and I'm losing paint on the inside of my door as I'm walking up to the house. 

So it doesn't make sense that they don't 'recognize' me until I'm in the house and chatting with them for a few sec. I'm seeing that dog in that video as not being sure of his owner UNTIL CHATTED UP AND REASSURED that everything is ok.

I'm not seeing recognition of a person as happening. I'm seeing reassurance that the situation is ok and Daddy loves me........................

Unless the dog is timid and behaves this way with everyone all the time in all situations. Because that would mean not only not 'seeing' Dad when he's right there and knowing it's ok, but being afraid of EVERYONE all the time until they are somehow reassured.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

IMHO, it looks like the dog is afraid of you. I think he recognizes you just fine, he just is afraid. I think, unaware, you've corrected him coming home, or walking in a room, or just plain corrected him in a manner that he has not forgotten. 

Good luck, I hope you can resolve this.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I would take him straight to a vet. That is just strange. Are you sure his vision is fine? I see anxiety, even as you were giving him commands (ears back) and the pacing is definitely anxiety.
> 
> Thyroid? Vision? Anything that would cause disorientation. If all that is cleared, then I would start working on FEAR and ANXIETY behavior modification. Because that is what I see in his actions.


Michelle,

I am thinking along the same lines as you and would want to rule out medical, thyroid & lyme disease come to mind which certainly could result in unusual behaviour (agression and fear).


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I want to add, that MANY GSD's are very very soft and hardly need any corrections or stern talking to when they have been 'wrong'. They love us and want to be 'right' and loved. They also need to really know that the world is a wonderful place and they are our shining lights in it! 

This CAN make training a bit of a challenge and why GSD owner need to be SMART trainers and immediately resorting to corrections and punishment (even mild) is overkill for our dogs. We think they are hearing 'I'm a bad dog and peed on the floor'. Not realizing all the dog KNOWS is 'MOM IS SUDDENLY A CRAZY PERSON AND CAN'T NOT BE RELIED ON TO BE A CALM CONFIDENT LEADER BECAUSE SHE SUDDENLY AND WITHOUT WARNING IS UNRELIABLE AND SCARY OH OH OH OH MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE I CAN'T THINK OH OH OH OH'.

One of the reasons I crate train, and keep my pups crated until they are reliable is for situations like this. I KNOW when I come home there is only love, hugs and kisses because my pup is in the crate and didn't get into trouble. So I am always delighted to drive up and arrive home. And my pup is always safe and delighted to see me.

Building back a relationship when my pup no longer trusts me to be a calm RELIABLE leader is tough. But can be done. Dog classes are a huge way to help me learn, but for this dog they would have to be all positive based with treats/toys/clicker/praise to rebuild the trust.

How is your 'engagement' training? Does your dog behave like these with you?

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ime-owner/162230-engagement-key-training.html

Clicker training would be a HUGE help, specially with tricks... http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...ick-least-important-part-teaching-tricks.html

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...0-intro-clicker-training-perfect-puppies.html


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## x0emiroxy0x (Nov 29, 2010)

This has happened with my boyfriend, twice.

He always wears the same things....workout clothes or blue jeans and tops.

When he went to an interview for the police department awhile back, he wore a nice suit and new shoes, as well as his "special" cologne. When he came home, Rocky barked and growled at him, until he said "its me buddy", and then Rocky ran up with his tail between his legs (weird)

Another time, my boyfriend came in dressed all in black with a hoodie over his head and face and Rocky barked at him then smelled him and ran up to cuddle.

I guess the cologne masked his smell? Do you wear the same 'scent' every day? Some of those male deodorant sprays are STRONG and can probably throw off a dogs scent?


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

I'll do my best to answer as many questions as I can recall here:

I bought him at 4 months from a breeder, I'm unsure of his litter-mates. He is destructive sometimes when we get home but at worst we just say 'kennel bomber' and he runs in his kennel for 15 minutes or so. 

If I stand at the door and yell, he'll come running. He did something similar with my wife (when we repeated the same thing) but didn't run around as much and seemed to pick up on her scent much faster, he turned sniffed walked two feet towards her sniffed again and ran right to her. (just reluctantly). He will also do the same thing outside middle of the day if I come around the house so I'm not sure its lighting or shadows. 

It almost seems like it has to be partially psychological to me as the other night he clearly identified me as me walked several paces away turned back and again thought I was a stranger.

If he knows it's me he's fine, we spend a ton of time together, I take him everywhere I go (I fish all the time and even have videos of him with me fishing on youtube) So we are together doing things outside several hours a day most days. It appears to be that what has been happening lately is that he can only maintain that it is me if he hasn't stopped looking at me. The minute he looks away he needs to re-identify me but his instinct to be scared of someone he hasn't identified prevents him from doing it. 

I also work on training a lot with him and even took him to Schutzhund training to see if that was something we could work on (glad he's not an attack dog now though!), we mostly work on jumping things, basic dog tricks, healing etc... He's a super smart dog in every other regard. 
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzhund*


*and it's a Washburn guitar


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

That is definitely different/weird to see. I have 2 dogs that seem to have some brain issues - one had a giant swelling on her head/big infection and it seemed to stick her at about 6 months with brain injury behavior, and another who was dead for a minute during a REALLY young (4 weeks? 5 weeks?) neuter from the anesthesia (2 littermates died completely). Anyway, they have some sensory difficulties and problems with different behaviors. The female my vet calls "Ground Hog Day" because every experience is new to her every time and the other has vision and movement issues/vertigo. So things like that can happen and I think vetting is a good idea. 

The first part looks like genuine fear/startle but then I am wondering if some of it is a behavior loop where there is a reward at the end and he thinks he has to do each of the repetitive behaviors (OCD-ish - any spinning, tail chasing, laser pointer play, light following, blanket sucking, other things like that?) to get the reward - which is you, the happy voice, praise and petting. He may not be able to separate which of those things you like and views the whole thing as the behavior that results in his reward (I am throwing that out there - not saying it's true). 

I would...start working w/a trainer and a clicker so you know how to run it if you don't already - both of you and the dog. Then I would leash him before you came in and break that greeting down with the clicker and trainer to shape a new one - this though has to come in conjunction with a vet workup, because I can do all sorts of good training to manage my dogs' behavior, but their basic underlying issues are still there - and I have to be aware of them so that I don't expect perfection. HOWEVER, if you met them, you might not be able to tell that they were off. Maybe.  I was lucky to know both those things about my dogs. 

But shaping a new greeting behavior would be what I would be thinking of doing, in a positive and fun way. 

Poor thing though - he definitely, at the beginning in particular, looks so freaked out.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> The problem with the part I put in bold, is our dogs should be able to hear/smell/recognize my CAR when I drive up the road, let alone the sound of MY key/my smell when I am entering. My dogs are already jumping and barking and I'm losing paint on the inside of my door as I'm walking up to the house.
> 
> .


That's how my dogs are also. My dogs know it's me or DH long before we get to the door. There is something very wrong here. Could be medical or it could be fear.

I can come and go and the only time I see a reaction even similar to this is with our 13 1/2 yr old Boxer who is starting to lose her senses and that is ONLY if she is sleeping and gets startled. But as soon as I say her name, she wiggles with her ears up and happy stance. Not ears back and shooting calming signals out her toenails.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Forgot! Tuft's Behavior Fax thing: Tufts Animal Behavior Clinic : Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine








VETFAX Behavioral Consultation







PETFAX Behavioral Consultation


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Either there is something different in the way you look, sound, or smell when you get home, or there is something going on with the dog. Is it possible he has limited vision? 

It almost seems like a neurological issue... if you had only gotten him a short time ago, I'd guess he's just going through a phase, but seeing as you've had him since 4 months of age, it's just weird. Are you in touch with the breeder?


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

I first thought that he couldn't see you... once he got close enough to smell/listen to you it was like he "woke up". I would have a full check up done, including eyes.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I would take him straight to a vet. That is just strange. Are you sure his vision is fine?


This is what I was thinking...keep us posted please. I would like to know what's up with your pup at least...


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Another thing you can do to quickly check his eyes (not professionally which I would do at the vet) is to snap your finger in front of him and see if he blinks....I'm no expert but I really think something must be wrong with his eyes  does he play normally with toys, and balls. Anything else that may suggest he has vision issues?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

absolutely not an expert, but vision seems to be a place to start.. but also maybe something with is nose and other senses. My Aunt had a blind chow and he would always know when they got home or if it was someone he knew by the sounds and smells, so yeah his vision may be impaired but what about another sensory failure? It would seem to me he would still be able to smell them. Like others have said, our dogs know we are home before we are actually in their sight..


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> T*he problem with the part I put in bold, is our dogs should be able to hear/smell/recognize my CAR when I drive up the road, let alone the sound of MY key/my smell when I am entering.* My dogs are already jumping and barking and I'm losing paint on the inside of my door as I'm walking up to the house.
> 
> So it doesn't make sense that they don't 'recognize' me until I'm in the house and chatting with them for a few sec. I'm seeing that dog in that video as not being sure of his owner UNTIL CHATTED UP AND REASSURED that everything is ok.
> 
> ...


This would be true of a dog with excellent sensory. However, this is obviously not the case.
This dog, may have have issues surrounding his eyes, nose, and possibly ears too.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

As far as his vision goes, he retrieves small balls sticks thrown way out in the water, tries to catch things out of the air, it appears to be fine. 


I could contact the breeder yes, might take some looking around but it could be done.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Williamevanl said:


> As far as his vision goes, he retrieves small balls sticks thrown way out in the water, tries to catch things out of the air, it appears to be fine.
> 
> 
> I could contact the breeder yes, might take some looking around but it could be done.


I need to know this....

Does he see you better in daylight?

Have you tried changing environments, and recreating his behavior outside your home?


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

he looks like he is afraid of getting "scolded"..and wants to run away but cant.
I had a dog once that if I raised my voice, or even just looked at her...she would coward down like i was gonna beat her or something. (never did, and I adopted her from KY when she was 4months...not sure if the foster did anything)
so with her...I had to always watch my tone in my voice...give her the high pitch happy voice to get her tail wagging...or the baby talk. when she would start to give me the "worried" look.
but even with her, she knew by my car door shutting that was me...and she would get excited that i was home.
but if there was something torn up on the floor....she would get quiet when I came in..and she had that look like she knew she did something wrong. she was always so cute looking I never yelled at her or anything....just picked it up and went about the day. (and then she would be happy again)
she was also very shy with certain men........took her 5 years before she sat on the couch next to my dad! he had that deep voice......she loved my brother...who always talked babytalk to her...


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't see a problem with his vision in that video. He has no problem getting inbetween the desk and the chair, several times. It looks like he is looking for a spot to hide. He is picking flight, then when you get closer he barks. He only relaxes when you call out to him.

I even looked at your fishing video when you caught the fish. It looked like he was moving out of your way. I didn't have the volume on so I don't know if you asked him to move away.

That 2nd video he goes right into barking. Your wife is sitting on the couch and he does not approach her for comfort.

I'm no way near an expert but looking at those videos I see a dog that wants to run from you. Something must have happened in that hallway to scare him. Maybe it is not you, but that area of your house. How is he entereing and exiting that area?

You should set up the same thing with your wife doing the entering. Is there another room that you could enter to observe his reaction?

How does he react when you enter the room and your wife is not there?

You said he is one year old. Don't they enter another fear period around then?

Wish you luck in solving this problem.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

Anthony8858 said:


> I need to know this....
> 
> Does he see you better in daylight?
> 
> Have you tried changing environments, and recreating his behavior outside your home?



He has done the same thing middle of the day under various conditions, one being when I walk around the side of the house but don't say anything, (He's been ten feet from the fence and just looked right at me like he had no idea who I was and then freaked. He's also done this once when I just poked my head out of the sliding back door (That goes to the backyard) he looked right up at my face and panicked. 

I've never tried recreating this at another place but he was at my parents other day and did something similar. I called him when I came in, he ran half way down the steps stopped got spooked and took off the other direction.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

Caledon said:


> I don't see a problem with his vision in that video. He has no problem getting inbetween the desk and the chair, several times. It looks like he is looking for a spot to hide. He is picking flight, then when you get closer he barks. He only relaxes when you call out to him.
> 
> I even looked at your fishing video when you caught the fish. It looked like he was moving out of your way. I didn't have the volume on so I don't know if you asked him to move away.
> 
> ...


He'll do this with or without my wife present. He doesn't react to my wife as strongly, more of a reluctant walk towards her while sniffing and then he's fine (But clearly spooked at first) 

He's done it with friends also but in general he doesn't normally care when people come over. I'd say this isn't a typical response as I said in my first post it seems to require that he spooks for one reason or another and then he exhibits this behavior. 

Ironically enough, my wife and I actually used to complain that he didn't stress enough when people came as he wouldn't start barking when someone knocked and didn't even leave the room when my wife's sister came over in the middle of the night, he basically didn't acknowledge her at all.

It's difficult to even set this up in another room without telling him he has to stay because he follows me all over the house, like right now he's laying right next to me, if I get up and go to the bedroom he'll follow and lay down in there. I could make him stay and then do it, not sure what would happen. * just did this, he didn't do anything out of the ordinary.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Williamevanl said:


> As far as his vision goes, he retrieves small balls sticks thrown way out in the water, tries to catch things out of the air, it appears to be fine.
> 
> 
> I could contact the breeder yes, might take some looking around but it could be done.


He uses his vision with his nose to retrieve those. hmm maybe he is having issues seeing far + maybe he is afraid of men (is he?) Will you take him to vet AND contact the breeder? Keep us posted. I am kind of concerned :c


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

I just took this video playing in the backyard with a ball and jumping something. I then come around the house and walked to the fence (I tried to do this calmly but without identifying myself verbally, he actually does pretty well, again though it's like he cant tell who I am but this didn't turn into a complete freak out. Sometimes he decides to bullet to the end of the yard and bark at me. 

102 1806 - YouTube


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I completely agree with everyone else- first you _must_ rule out a medical or psychological issue. After that- the frequency at which you can reproduce this (every time) allows you to easily start working on counter conditioning your entry. If this were my dog, I would break the behavior down like this:



While inside the house, bring the dog to the closed front door. Knock on the door. The instant that the dog looks at the door, click/treat. Do this multiple times a day (at least three or four times) for a couple days. When you knock on the door and the dog looks at you like "Hey man- where the heck is my treat!?" then it's time to move on.
While inside the house, bring the dog to the closed front door. Knock on the door. Open the door. The instant the dog looks outside the door, click/treat. (This will require the dog to have been trained to not bolt out through an open door, of course- probably will help if you have a screen door that you can leave closed.) Again, repeat for a few days.
While inside the house, bring the dog to the closed front door. Knock on the door. Open the door. Take a step outside the door. The instant the dog looks at you, click/treat. Again, repeat for a few days.
While inside the house, bring the dog to the closed front door. Knock on the door. Open the door. Take a step outside the door. Take a step back into the house. The instant the dog looks at you, click/treat. At this point, you should NOT be closing the door behind you prior to clicking/treating. You should be throwing such a massive party, play time, that the dog could no longer care about the state of the door. While partying, you can sneakily use your foot to get the door closed again with the dog noticing. Perhaps you would need to practice this without the dog for a few reps. Your mechanics will be critical to your success. Again, repeat for a few days.
Finally, while inside the house, bring the dog to the closed front door. Knock on the door. Open the door. Take a step outside the door. Take a step back into the house. Close the front door, turning away from the dog as you close it, and turning back to the dog after the door is completely closed. The instant the dog looks at you, click/treat.
Besides all of that, I'd ALSO be carrying around a treat back and a clicker any time I was home. EVERY SINGLE TIME the dog made a choice to look at me, I'd click/treat. Note that I would leave it up to the dog to look at me; I would _not_ ask the dog to look at me. This allows the dog to _choose_ to earn reinforcement.

Do that for two weeks- I'd be ultra curious to know the status at that point. It's imperative to split the behavior you are trying to accomplish into small achievable chunks that can be isolated and reinforced. You then start chaining those behaviors together. When you lump a bunch of behaviors together, you will be much less effective in your training strategy. Be a splitter, not a lumper.

And finally- keep a training journal and document every single session that you work with your dog. This will allow you to go back and refresh your memory about little nuances that you tried, and how effective they were.

Oh- and I should mention (though I think it's obvious) that this method can be taken on the road to new "habitats" to try out. I'd personally keep it to the front door at first. But once you start seeing really good responses to you walking in the front door, then I'd start thinking about taking it to another room in the house. Or the backyard. Or your parents house. Or any other place I could possibly think of.


[EDIT]- I meant to add this video in case you've never clicker trained before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1551HBaNwwk


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Williamevanl said:


> I just took this video playing in the backyard with a ball and jumping something. I then come around the house and walked to the fence (I tried to do this calmly but without identifying myself verbally, he actually does pretty well, again though it's like he cant tell who I am but this didn't turn into a complete freak out. Sometimes he decides to bullet to the end of the yard and bark at me.
> 
> 102 1806 - YouTube


He looks normal when he jumps the jumping thingy.

He got a bit anxious when he first noticed you before you got to the fence (head got low, walking away agitated). Is he afraid of men? Then he got excited again!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

One other thing I'd mention- 

I'm not sure myself how I feel about animal communicators. That said- I've read many, MANY amazing stories of people having success with communicators. In fact, I have a close friend who used an animal communicator, and the dog was able to identify a thyroid issue that was completely stumping the vets. After the communicator session, she took the dog to the vet and demanded a battery of thyroid tests- sure enough, they found the issue.

Regardless of what you think about it- it _definitely_ can't hurt to try, right?? Perhaps the dog might be able to simply tell you the problem.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

iloveshepherds said:


> he looks like he is afraid of getting "scolded"..and wants to run away but cant.
> I had a dog once that if I raised my voice, or even just looked at her...she would coward down like i was gonna beat her or something. (never did, and I adopted her from KY when she was 4months...not sure if the foster did anything)


That crossed my mind, as well--whether the OP's dog had abuse in his past, before OP got him. 

How long has this behavior been going on? Has he done it since you've had him, or is this new behavior?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I would like for you to re-enact that same scene

However, I would like to have your wife have him on a leash, and all the lights shining bright.
Make sure he's in a relaxed state before entering the room.

How do you think he'll react?

On another note..... After watching that last video, I have to say that he loves you, and is very close to you. 

Honestly, did you ever scold him in that room?
Or loudly reprimand him, after walking through that door?


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

I have to agree, the last video seems very normal to me. Maybe a little weary when he heard someone, then looked and "oh it's dad!" then excitement. Titan whines his butt off if he can see me fromt he yard and he's not out with me.. you would think someone was torturing him!

I think someone mentioned (after ensuring no health issues are present of course) to make entering the room a very very positive experience. Any time you or your wife comes home, instant praise and treats.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

wyoung2153 said:


> I have to agree, the last video seems very normal to me. Maybe a little weary when he heard someone, then looked and "oh it's dad!" then excitement. Titan whines his butt off if he can see me fromt he yard and he's not out with me.. you would think someone was torturing him!
> 
> I think someone mentioned (after ensuring no health issues are present of course) to make entering the room a very very positive experience. Any time you or your wife comes home, instant praise and treats.



That's kind of why I took the last video, it's not like he's actually scared of me in any way. He's super excited when he realizes it's me, it's just that he can't always seem to figure out that it is me. In that last video he again is looking right at me but can't quite identify me by just seeing me. 

Sometimes this results in an all out panic as seen in the earlier videos. 

To respond to the other poster, at most my wife usually yells, Kennel bomber! whenever he's chewed something up. He's so used to this that she doesn't even have to say anything, if he chewed something up he'll be laying in his kennel when we walk in.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

Freestep said:


> That crossed my mind, as well--whether the OP's dog had abuse in his past, before OP got him.
> 
> How long has this behavior been going on? Has he done it since you've had him, or is this new behavior?



He's always seemed to have the inability to identify me visually, but I'd say this has become more of a problem recently. (with situations where this is happening in the house moments after we are playing).

Also he was bought at 4 months by a very small private breeder who is a psychology professor at Drake University. She was a sweet old lady that also had his Dad and mom so I don't think he's ever suffered any kind of abuse. You can tell in that last video that he's bouncy, happy and he's basically always like that.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

When did the behavior actually start? have you had him since puppyhood? Sorry if this was answered.. but I have been reading everything..

EDIT: apparently we posted at the same time.. my bad.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm sorry, but I'm trying to get one answer.

Did anyone ever scold him as soon as they walked in the room?

I ask this because the room does have some chewable items, and we could very easily lose our temper if they destroy our personal belongings.


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Can you recall when you first noticed the behavior? You said recently, so maybe after a vacation or you both were gone and he was alone? Maybe after you got upset at something and kept storming in and out of that door?


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

To answer the one question below this post:
Yes he's been told to go to his kennel in every room in the house. He'll get scolded if he chews on something he isn't supposed to or pounces the cat etc.. He's pretty good about it we just say "kennel" and he runs to it and sleeps. 



wyoung2153 said:


> Can you recall when you first noticed the behavior? You said recently, so maybe after a vacation or you both were gone and he was alone? Maybe after you got upset at something and kept storming in and out of that door?


He stayed at my parents house when we were on vacation so he wasn't here. I've noticed this behavior almost as far back as I remember having him but it always just seemed kind of silly, I'd turn to friends and say "look he doesn't seem to be able to tell who I am, weird..." 

It wasn't much of a concern until he started losing track of me in the house or right after I petted him which just started happening recently. He's never even been so much as scolded in the backyard but still exhibits this behavior there, it seems clear to me that he just isn't recognizing me.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

That outside video looks like a perfectly adjusted happy dog to me. He was waiting for you to come back out when you went in the sliding door. He looked alert when he heard something at the fence but he recognized you immediately.

Something must have happened in that area of your house that he is reacting that way. Don't know if you will ever figure it what it was/is but I think you need to work on your entrances to the house. I have to wonder too if you or your wife scolded him when you came home and he is hanging on to that, maybe a potty accident, or he broke somethng while you were not home. Another thought, when you walk him do you return via the front door? How do you release him. Did he run off with muddy paws and you called him back?

One of the exercises I used with my dog when I was working on dog reactive issues was to just drop a handful of treats on the floor when I was walking by, don't say a word and don't be obvious in the treat throwing. Owner coming home = treats magically appearing. I don't make a big deal about my coming and going, but I think here you need to make arrivals a pleasant experience. Take baby steps.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

It's interesting you said that he recognized me immediately, I sort of thought that was a good example of in between reaction. He stares right at me for about 5 seconds, gets a little scared, doubles back to the house and then charges over because he realizes its me. As I said that can go either way, he decided to just come to the fence but other times he'll stare, double back, bark and take off. It likely helped that we were just playing seconds before that. 



Caledon said:


> That outside video looks like a perfectly adjusted happy dog to me. He was waiting for you to come back out when you went in the sliding door. He looked alert when he heard something at the fence but he recognized you immediately.
> 
> Something must have happened in that area of your house that he is reacting that way. Don't know if you will ever figure it what it was/is but I think you need to work on your entrances to the house. I have to wonder too if you or your wife scolded him when you came home and he is hanging on to that, maybe a potty accident, or he broke somethng while you were not home. Another thought, when you walk him do you return via the front door? How do you release him. Did he run off with muddy paws and you called him back?
> 
> One of the exercises I used with my dog when I was working on dog reactive issues was to just drop a handful of treats on the floor when I was walking by, don't say a word and don't be obvious in the treat throwing. Owner coming home = treats magically appearing. I don't make a big deal about my coming and going, but I think here you need to make arrivals a pleasant experience. Take baby steps.


(also he comes in and out of the front door. )


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## wyoung2153 (Feb 28, 2010)

Have you spoken with a trainer near by?


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Caledon said:


> That outside video looks like a perfectly adjusted happy dog to me. He was waiting for you to come back out when you went in the sliding door. He looked alert when he heard something at the fence but he recognized you immediately.
> 
> Something must have happened in that area of your house that he is reacting that way. Don't know if you will ever figure it what it was/is but I think you need to work on your entrances to the house. I have to wonder too if you or your wife scolded him when you came home and he is hanging on to that, maybe a potty accident, or he broke somethng while you were not home. Another thought, when you walk him do you return via the front door? How do you release him. Did he run off with muddy paws and you called him back?
> 
> One of the exercises I used with my dog when I was working on dog reactive issues was to just drop a handful of treats on the floor when I was walking by, don't say a word and don't be obvious in the treat throwing. Owner coming home = treats magically appearing. I don't make a big deal about my coming and going, but I think here you need to make arrivals a pleasant experience. Take baby steps.


Great feedback and suggestions :thumbup: Actually some other members are also adding great stuff too.

Unless this is a medical issue with a blind/deaf 1 yr old dog (and I'm not seeing that at all), you are probably dealing with a GSD that is soft (I have those also, just another training challenge  ) and a correction we think is appropriate and clear as a bell................. is overwhelming and has ZERO teaching in it for a dog like ours.

They brain explodes when they think they've disappointed or been bad. And a dog with an exploded brain has no ability to realize the WHY their human has becaome a crazy person (to them, not say it would be too much for another dog) they just no longer TRUST their human in that same situation.

To me, the setup and situation your dog no longer trust you is when you arrive home. They are now expecting something bad, and until they are quite quite quite quite sure (really sure) they are using avoidance to give distance to read the situation.

Have you purchased and viewed Turid Rugaas's DVD 'Calming Signals'? I'm betting this would open your world to alot of her behaviors early on, so they won't get this extreme.

You need the DVD, not just the book.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

With all the information I'm reading, I honestly have to think there is something going on with this dog... a neurological issue. He acts like he has no short-term memory, having to totally re-evaluate his situation every few minutes and re-learn who his master is. It's very interesting. Wonder if he might be one of those pups that got stuck in the birth canal and was deprived of oxygen for a short time, causing neurological damage. You probably don't have endless funds with which to do testing, but you might want to contact the nearest vet school and see if they'd be interested in studying him.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Freestep said:


> He acts like he has no short-term memory, having to totally re-evaluate his situation every few minutes and re-learn who his master is.


It seems like this could be tested fairly easily. Perhaps training the dog to perform a shell game trick. You could use three containers, with one container being of a different color. Train the dog to nose only the off-color container. Then bring in different colors and see if you can get the dog to remember to find the off-color container. As you make the game more complex, you discover if the dog can retain the information from the previous training- namely, that the color is important not the container's position. It might look something like this:

*Summary:
*To diagnose a potential lack of short term memory, an association will be made with a constant object. The association would be that of color, being careful to realize that dogs cannot see the entire color spectrum.

*Hypothesis:*
If the dog can be shown to associate a specific color with a constant object, then a second constant object can be added modifying only the color. The dog should be able to maintain the color association if short term memory is not failing in the dog.


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## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

watching the video...it seemed like you had a stare down with the dog at the fence, stare down is a sign of dominance...he was trying to "read" your gestures and was unsure if he was going to be scolded or not.....once he realized he was in the clear, he got happy.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm betting the farm that this dog got scolded. He doesn't like the initial meeting from his owners.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I'm thinking that saying the op must have caused this by scolding is perhaps shortsighted. OP at this point would Imho own up to this. Its really kind of queer behavior and the Op is spot on with his concern..I agree with others who have suggested outside help..What if this was my dog..Iwould know something was wrong..


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

The video of you outside and going to the fence. You were basically acting like a creep. When you change your body language and look like that, your dog is going to react. Especially considering what he knows of you is a more relaxed demeanor. Then all of a sudden you go stiff? And in a new location from where he originally saw you? My dogs bark at us if we act like that too. 
They actually use their eyesight for identification purposes more than we think. 

This was a funny experience we had. My boyfriend NEVER dresses in suits. One day he walks in the room and Nina our loving wiggable pitbull started growling at him. He goes "NEEEN BEEEN whats up?" and she instantly lowers her head and wiggles apologizing for her mix up. 

That being said the first two videos are vastly different. The dog is in a fearful state for an extended period of time and really panics. But now I want to know what YOU look like when the dog is freaking out like it does. Then I will make some comments on what I think the cause is. But I can see why in the fence video. 

If you would like I can go walk like a creep into my dog kennel right now. You will hear my dogs pipe up the minute they see me. We raise them to understand what is normal and what isn't. Then you go and walk in like a creep on your dog tricking him and you are confused why he is flipping out about you? Maybe he is really scared about you being "bipolar". Dogs don't trust instability. 

Not trying to be harsh, JMHO


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I'm sorry...That's just wrong...IMHO


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## freyalouiseb (Jul 3, 2012)

I just watched the first video you posted, the dog looks terrified, I would suggest he knows exactly who you are but when you enter the house due to a lack of confidence his natural guarding behaviours come to the surface and he has to vocalise the fact you have just walked in.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Here's my 2 cents and what I would do.

The in house videos, to me didn't seem as bright as being outside. He seems to react/panic when no one is saying anything. Your just standing there no talking (same with the outside video).

I would have his vision thoroughly tested, he may see 'better' in light because he looks pretty normal acting outside when you were throwing the ball.

The one where you came around the house, I would like to see what he'd do if you walked around the house, continued coming thru the gate and as soon as he saw you, start talking "HEY BOMBER WHATS UP"...yada yada..vs you coming around the house and just standing there without saying a word..

I would put my money on something with his vision, not saying he's 'blind', but maybe distance? dark? not well lighted?? Maybe he can 'smell' your wife better , as in perfume or something, that he can pick up on her faster than you.

That is where I would start and I wouldn't wait..if that's all ok (and I 'd see a doggie optamologist) I'd then move on to rule out any other medical issues..and so on.

Just throwing out my 2cents


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I don't see a terrified, previously-scolded dog. In rescues I've worked with, a dog that's been abused tends to cower in one spot. He doesn't run around frantically like this vid. I agree with others, vision would be my first speculation. The 'snap in front of the eye' test is not the best because the associated noise can cause a false reaction. Try a 'menace response' test, I think its called. Isolate one eye (cover the other one) and tap your finger at the eye like you're going to poke it. DON'T GO TOO CLOSE, obviously! If the dog blinks he can see shadows at the very least. Try this on both eyes and in different lights.

Good news: my crazy, SA labradoodle rescue had behavior like this as a 14-18 month old. He would wake up from a nap and stare at me like he had no idea who I was, then spring up and bark once or twice. He'd run away and hide, staring at me from under a table or something and a few minutes later he would come up to sniff me very tentatively. As soon as he'd sniffed it was all good and things were normal. He never did this when I returned home, however. 
If it's any consolation, he's five now and he hasn't experienced these issues since he was 18 months old. So there may be hope. I had his vision tested and passed, but if his mom was the mom also rescued in the puppymill bust he came from she was completely blind.

Let us know what you find out here, I'm really intrigued!


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

Just throwing this idea out there. This quote is from Patricia McConnell's blog:

*Earlier I mentioned* a possible correlation between reactivity and vision problems, which got many of us thinking about the relationship between eyesight and reactive and/or fearful behavior in dogs. I had remembered that a researcher at UW-Madison did a study on eyesight in dogs, in which GSDs had an especially high rate of myopia, or nearsightedness. That got my attention, given how many reactive GSDs I’d been seeing in my office at the time.
*We just found* the study, and here is a summary of it: (You can find the entire study in _Investigative Ophthalmology & Visual Science_, Vol 33, No 8, July ’92, by Murphy, Zadnik & Mannis). The researchers looked at the physical structure of the eye (no one asked the dogs if the marks on the wall were bones or dinner bowls!), to evaluate the eyesight of 240 dogs presented at the UW-Madison clinic, and in 53 GSDs in Guide Dogs for the Blind programs. In the general study, *they found 3 breeds in which over 50% of the dogs were myopic: 53% of GSDs,* 50% of Miniature Schnauzers (but note many of those dogs were in the same family), and 64% of Rottweilers. In contrast, only 19% of the GSDs in the Guide Dog program showed signs of myopia.

I found the original study online but it is too technical for non-medical types to follow. We thought our last girl might be nearsighted as she could not recognize me in our driveway from across the street and her body language would say "stranger danger". Once she got closer, or heard my voice, she would be OK, embarrassed actually. Definitely a referral to an eye specialist would be worth it.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Wow, Quinnsmom! Thanks for that, I had no idea!


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

An additional thought - I just watched the outdoors video. He didn't see you approach the fence because he was by the patio doors. You were just standing so he couldn't get any cues from the way you walked. As a long time glasses wearer for major nearsightedness, I can attest that one can see and follow movement ( i.e. people's body language, a rolling ball) but small facial features at a distance are just a blur, and that would include one room away in my case, lol!


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

It;s been 2 days since your initial post. Have you found an eye specialist yet to have your dog examined?

That should be your #1 priority.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Anthony8858 said:


> I'm betting the farm that this dog got scolded. He doesn't like the initial meeting from his owners.


I'm betting the farm that it *isn't* that. OP stated that their method of "scolding" him was nothing more than telling him to go to his crate, which he does. If you're implying that OP must have hurt or scared the dog out of his wits one time when he came home... I'm not seeing that. Another poster mentioned that abused dogs tend to lie in one spot and roll over, not run frantically from one side of the room to another, and that's been my experience as well. The dog honestly looks like he has no idea who just walked into the room and is trying desperately to flee... and once assured that it's his owner, the fear disappears and he seems to act normal and well-adjusted. If the behavior was caused by abuse, he wouldn't be so reassured. You might see appeasement signals like crouching, urinating, rolling over, etc. 

OP states the dog has been like this since he got him as a pup, so if this behavior was caused by abuse, it would have happened before OP got him, and the behavior should have diminished by now.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

My thoughts--
A dog that can't see can still smell. I do not think it is his eyes.
Can't hurt to have him looked at but I don't think it's that.

I DO see a previously scolded dog.


> To respond to the other poster, at most *my wife usually yells, Kennel bomber! *whenever he's chewed something up. He's so used to this that she doesn't even have to say anything, if he chewed something up he'll be laying in his kennel when we walk in.


Do you mean she literally YELLS at the dog? Like...shout/scream?
And sending him to his kennel/crate? Big no no. Crates are not for "time outs", they are for a "safe haven" for dogs. 
ANYthing the dog chews up - your fault! Why scold him for it? 

This appears to be a dog who is afraid of his owner coming home. I'm sorry but that's how I see it too and we too have a rescue. 
This dog does indeed recognize you and he doesn't like what he's seeing.

My 1st thought was, "he HATES that camera you are holding!"

I had this happen just two days ago. Dog was fine, I was bending over, petting, but the moment I got my camera, BOOM, she got shy and started backing up. 
I did not advance. My sound wasn't up (my dogs would go nuts) but it appeared you were advancing on this terrified dog! Why would you do so? I mean - the moment a dog shows fear, you change what you are doing!

Like Maris said - your body language is most likely the trigger whether or not you realize it. The dog is either very soft and afraid of being punished, and/or else very soft and just regular things you're doing triggers a panic response. 

Either way - change your own actions until your dog is not terrified of you. 

*ABOVE ALL!* Stop punishing him when you arrive back home! 
Put things away and/or crate him so he's not set up to fail while you are gone.
Or, when you arrive home to chewed items, go in the bathroom and look in the mirror and tell yourself what a bad girl/boy you've been, to leave your things down where the dog to chew them!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> My thoughts--
> A dog that can't see can still smell. I do not think it is his eyes.
> Can't hurt to have him looked at but I don't think it's that.
> 
> ...


Very much what I was thinking. 

The crate should be a good place, not "Kennel Bomber" time. If the first thing you did (and it only takes a few times) was act displeased with the dog when you got home, he may fear that, because I doubt he understood why he was being punished, since the chewing was not caught while he was doing it.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I did a little experiment last night....

Kira was in the back of the house, laying on her mat. Lighting was minimal to dark. I walked in my front door while holding my camera phone to my face.
Kira's initial reaction was to jump up from her mat, approach the gate that separates the living area. She jumped up on the gate, gave a low growl, and just stood there and studied me as I stood in the doorway with the camera blocking my face.
I said her name, and her tail started wagging, and she become very happy to know it was me.

Kira does not have any sensory issues. She can sniff a coin out of a laundry basket, yet she had a different sensory response. Her first reaction was confusion, and uncertainty.

I strongly feel that the OP's dog is afraid of being scolded, and wanted reassurance that it was going to be a friendly encounter.
As I said earlier, I think something was chewed, and "someone" went bonkers on this dog when they walked into it.
That dog didn't forget it either.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Anthony8858 said:


> I did a little experiment last night....


Zeeva doesn't recognize my husband in a baseball cap or his motorcycle helmet...


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Zeeva doesn't recognize my husband in a baseball cap or his motorcycle helmet...


Just curious...

What's Zeeva's reaction?


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Anthony8858 said:


> Just curious...
> 
> What's Zeeva's reaction?


Fearful I think. She backs up slowly, head down, body low, ears back...that's what I recall. I wouldn't try it again because I don't think she found it pleasant. Maybe with the baseball cap but the helmet is a ''no no".


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I am certainly no expert, but heres my thoughts...Did you ever have to tend to a wound on him, or give medicine? 
I've had Lakota since she was 8wks old, and I assure you she has never ever been abused, she had a few health problems where I had to tend to her, she wasn't very happy with me. Now, mostly at night, I can get up out of my chair go into the bathroom and when I come back she is all skiddish and fearful, like I am going to do something to her. She'll give me the hairy eyeball till I settle back down in my chair, of which she lays next to every night. So to me it just looks like a fear based behavior for whatever reason.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Op do you move the crate around your house? 

Could it be that your dog was trying to run into his crate in the first video because it used to be in that area?

Expanding on the poster above, Dakota will run away from me when she sees the dremel in my hand, and sometimes when I go to the cabinet to get it. I've never ever hurt her with it. 

Keep us informed of your findings.


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

I don't see a dog who is afraid of being scolded. He seems very relieved when he realizes it is you. I agree with Jeans post several pages back that there may be some type of neurological damage. We have a cat that has diminished sight, hearing and smell I think and has been that way since we adopted her at 4 months. He gets very frightened when picked up, seems confused at times and is a bit disoriented ( his whole body but the rear makes the cat box ) And he will start digging in the cat box to cover his leavings obsessively until we get him out. He is a very loving 10 year old cat.

Could not only his eyes, but also his sense of smell, and hearing be diminished? Definitely a neuro work up is in order. Maybe a vet school could do it just for the learning they would get?

Great ideas from people about breaking things down in steps and clicker training.

Boomer is blessed to have you.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I strongly feel that the OP's dog is afraid of being scolded, and wanted reassurance that it was going to be a friendly encounter.
> As I said earlier, I think something was chewed, and "someone" went bonkers on this dog when they walked into it.
> That dog didn't forget it either.


To the OP - do the same but instead of standing there, staring, taking video (which I presume means you're holding something), get all happy, get down on your knees, wiggle, do whatever. PUT THE CAMERA DOWN. Have it alongside the room or whatever- I noticed the dog was DEFINITELY less stressed when you were not holding the camera.

Now - do the same but change your body language and posture in response to his fear. With your body - make him less fearful. Change your posture until he relaxes. Once he begins to relax, reward that, GOOD BOY! Happy, upbeat voice, etc.

See if it changes his response. If that works, you can save your $$$ on all the vision and other tests. 

For all others - valuable lesson. If your dog is responding fearfully, change things until they aren't any longer. If you have to crouch, change tone of voice, etc.

I fully agree with Anthony - it's not a disability or neuro issue, it's a "been scolded too harshly for _this particular dog_" issue. 

Because here's the thing - what you and I could throw at our dog (yell at it, holler, whatever), may make the next dog cringe in fear and even wet itself.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Maybe this is a longshot but dogs rely a lot more on their sense of smell than vision. 

They can tell who we are through all the various perfumes and clothes etc we add without using their eyes at all. Is there any chance there could be some defect with the dog's sense or processing of smell. Most the brain stuff for smell is in the frontal lobe between the two eyes.

To imagine what the would be like, blindfold yourself and have someone come into a room and ID them without verbal cues. They actually have more detailed odor recognition than we have visual recognition. I guess the reason I say that was once he HEARD your voice, he seemed fine.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

But also when they can smell you and you _look_ different, that's a problem. 

If this guy had the camera held up and the dog was afraid of it - many dogs are, it's quite common - they somehow thing that thing is going to harm them - then it could explain this reaction. I'd say 6-7 out of 10 foster dogs are fine with us interacting with them, but pick up a camera and it's all over! We lure with food to get them to even LOOK at us when we're holding a camera! 

My son came in one cold evening with his hoody on and our dog had been teased by teen boys with hoodies. Well, when my son came in the door, our GSD at the time ran over, hackles up. He got closer and realized it was my son, plus my son whipped off his hoody and said something to the dog. 

Normal dog eyesight isn't that great, and yes they rely on smell but if you walk in the door holding a pizza box (for instance) your dog's going to be like, WTF is THAT??
And possibly freak out. In my Godfather delivery days, even my own dogs freaked out over my pizza boxes. 

We just adopted out a Doxie girl yesterday who drove me nuts because she knew us all (lived here 5mos) but if we walked through the room with laundry, or even a cup of coffee, if we stood there and she saw us drink out of a cup, for instance, she'd freak out. 
She knew us upright and walking with nothing in our hands. If anything changed (which is what dogs look for - changes) then we were "strangers" to her. And that could be walking in the kitchen and coming back with something we were not holding when we left the room. 

If I'd known this thread was going to pop up I'd have videoed it. 
It's not a medical mystery - it's just that some dogs are extremely sensitive to "changes". Temple Grandin speaks of things that are different in her books, and how animals react to that. 

In fact, she used a rain coat as an example. Cows would become afraid to walk by a door or a fence. It turned out someone had taken off their rain coat and left it on the fence or on a tack by the door. And the cows had never seen it so they were freaked out - you or I would be going, WTF? It's just a RAINCOAT!

But dogs are the same way. A dog who has never seen someone with a cane, will react and bark, etc. until it realizes everything is okay. But this is why they do those tests in shelters, exposing the dog to all kinds of things it may never have seen before.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> To the OP - do the same but instead of standing there, staring, taking video (which I presume means you're holding something), get all happy, get down on your knees, wiggle, do whatever. PUT THE CAMERA DOWN. Have it alongside the room or whatever- I noticed the dog was DEFINITELY less stressed when you were not holding the camera.
> 
> Now - do the same but change your body language and posture in response to his fear. With your body - make him less fearful. Change your posture until he relaxes. Once he begins to relax, reward that, GOOD BOY! Happy, upbeat voice, etc.
> 
> ...


Good post...


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Zeeva said:


> Zeeva doesn't recognize my husband in a baseball cap or his motorcycle helmet...


Exactly! 

Another example is, I locked myself out of the house once and had to climb in through the kitchen window. 
We had 2 GSDs at the time, and both knew me - could see fine, broad daylight - but at the same time, was like, "Okay, you're mom, but...wait...you're an intruder!"

So they'd bark as if protecting the house, knew it was me, but climbing in the window was completely out of the ordinary, a new/different behavior for me. 
They'd bark, then be quiet and happy/wag, then bark again. 

I'm just glad they could see and smell me - if it had been dark, God only knows what may have happened


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I once had neighbors who were alcoholics. One time, the woman had come home from the bar after a fight with her boyfriend, and had locked herself out. I had to help her break in through the window. They had a chow mix puppy, I think the dog was just shy of a year old at the time. Well, that dog did NOT like it when his owner was drunk, and barked and growled at her coming in the window. The dog knew it was his owner, she was talking to him the whole time trying to reassure him, but he kept growling at her.

I don't suppose OP's dog is reacting to him coming home smelling of alcohol, but it just goes to show that some dogs are very sensitive to certain changes.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I have a friend who's father has a mixed spaniel/hound cross. Unfortunately, he has done everything wrong from the beginning, especially with house-breaking. The dog has submissive peeing issues, and the dad used to yell and rub his nose in it. My friend, (his son), says whenever his dad gets home from work, the dog runs and hides under a bed for about 20 minutes. When he comes out, finally, it takes him another ten before he warms up to the dad. My friend has tried to talk to his dad, but he insists this is how he's always trained dogs, it's not mean, and this one is just dumb. I guess my point is, someone mentioned abused dogs --NOT SAYING THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE OP'S CASE--lay down and don't move. That is not always the case. 

Sigh. We all feel for that poor dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I guess my point is, someone mentioned abused dogs --NOT SAYING THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE OP'S CASE--lay down and don't move. That is not always the case.


Exactly. We have some 150-175 dogs a year through here, over the past 6yrs., and the abused ones will act just the way the OPs dog did. Not that you're abusive, but again, some dogs can barely tolerate a loud word spoken. That's pure fear. 
In my experience, too, we have a dog of our own who is like that - she's _extremely sensitive_ and becomes afraid of even us if we're having a verbal argument. They behave just that way, they don't all lay down/don't move.

What will set one off, another is "ho hum" about.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Exactly. We have some 150-175 dogs a year through here, over the past 6yrs., and the abused ones will act just the way the OPs dog did. Not that you're abusive, but again, some dogs can barely tolerate a loud word spoken. That's pure fear.
> In my experience, too, we have a dog of our own who is like that - she's _extremely sensitive_ and becomes afraid of even us if we're having a verbal argument. They behave just that way, they don't all lay down/don't move.
> 
> What will set one off, another is "ho hum" about.


I recall some months ago, I raised my voice to Kira for something (I forgot what it was). 
Anyway, she looked at me, and ran into her crate. At that time, I thought she was an obedient dog, but Carmen (and some others) were all over me for her actions. She picked up on her lack of nerve, etc...
It was at that point, I made it my business never to show that type of emotion to my dog again. It had an obvious, adverse effect on her, and I can assure you, that if I walked into a room, and did it again, the result would be the same.
Today, I shower her with praise, and the results couldn't be better.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

The worst dogs we've had come through - aggression wise- were the softest dogs ever but had learned their submissive signs did not work.
The worst two I can think of were Chi mixes - same home - there were out of control kids in the home, and these dogs had submitted, and were abused for it. I mean mangled, the kids were horrible to them. 

The dogs came here nipping, biting, fearful, tail tucked, etc. The 1st one I could not touch - at all! Opening her crate would get you bitten. The vet couldn't believe we had it and were adopting her out. We were half step away from euthing this poor 12 lb. dog.

However, I broke through her barrier and found a sweet submissive dog which went to the right home - no visitors, or rare ones, no kids, etc. 

Anyway my point is, all dogs react to being fearful differently. Some plaster themselves to the floor. Some become defensive - the 12lb. Chi's behavior would not have been tolerated in an 80lb. dog, I'm sorry to be that way but that's how rescue is sometimes. A 12lb. Chi can be picked up by the leash if necessary.

Anyway, other dogs run, a fear response is usually fight or flight. But some simply avoid and freeze. But all don't avoid/freeze, some do continue to "flight" until they injure themselves. You see this with livestock, they will injure themselves on fences, etc. while "flighting". You don't want a "fighter" in any instance, but fear can trigger that response as well. 
Dogs, as a rule, if raised with humans, will try flight instead of fight, and avoid if flight is not possible. It's when they can't avoid or flight that's an issue and they feel they must fight.

And when you see any dog acting this way you must change your tactics immediately.
When you work as an ACO and are called upon to get a dog that may in fact be extremely afraid or even injured, you learn quickly to change tactics midstream and work at changing them until something works and you can get close and work with the dog.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry I've been gone for a week so I haven't been able to respond to a lot of the recent posts. Bomber and I were on a wilderness adventure.  



















There have been a lot of interesting replies. Bomber actually exhibited the same behavior on the trip but instead of with me (as he never left my side) he kept doing it with my friend every time he walked off. Even after spending day after day with this guy and sleeping in the same tent as soon as he walked off Bomber clearly exhibited a similar response running away from him like he was a stranger. (friend was like "what's wrong with your dog?!" ) 

I was surprised by the response about walking around the house like a 'creep' ? creep as in not saying anything, that is what I was trying to illustrate, it's when I walk into/around the house without verbally identifying myself that he reacts this way. Previous to realizing he did this I would just run around the side of the house and he would bolt after seeing me. 

It's also unfortunate that all unusual behavior by a dog seems to suggest to people that he's been abused or scolded too much. It's hard to imagine my wife just yelling kennel bomber when he eats her shoes to have brought this on by itself. 

I spend a ton of time with this dog, I take him everywhere legally allowed and make it a point to try to get him outside doing something almost every day. He follows me from the minute I'm home until I leave (his head is on my foot as I type this), I don't think he is scared of me in any way, I think it is just difficult for him to recognize me as me (or anyone that he knows) right away.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

So what is his response when that happens?




> . It's hard to imagine my wife just yelling kennel bomber when he eats her shoes to have brought this on by itself.


If it is anything but standing there, panting happily and wagging his tail, yes she may have. 

Not all dogs have the same temperament and raising our voice causes one of ours to cower although the raised voice has nothing to do with her at all.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> So what is his response when that happens?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He goes in his kennel, I'm not even sure I understand the connection between the two. He reacts similarly when I tell him to sit or no. If he goes to chew on something and I say "no bomber" he's like a child, he won't chew on it but he still wants to so he becomes unhappy. He'll lay down next to it and just stare at it.

If there is a connection between my wife telling him to go in his kennel and him not recognizing a guy he's spent the last 6 days with that seems pretty unusual to me.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Did you ever take him to a specialist to have his eyes checked? Just because he can catch a ball, doesn't mean something else couldn't be wrong.


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Did you ever take him to a specialist to have his eyes checked? Just because he can catch a ball, doesn't mean something else couldn't be wrong.



I was just going to ask the vet next time we are in for shots. What would/could they do for something like this? Would they do anything? I feel like they would just ask if he gets along fine in everything else that he does and the answer to that is yes. Surely we aren't talking about corrective eye surgery or anything like that are we?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Williamevanl said:


> I was just going to ask the vet next time we are in for shots. What would/could they do for something like this? Would they do anything? I feel like they would just ask if he gets along fine in everything else that he does and the answer to that is yes. Surely we aren't talking about corrective eye surgery or anything like that are we?


I doubt it. But, if you can confirm that he does have a vision problem, it would explain the behavior and make it understandable.

FWIW, I don't think you or your wife "made" him this way by scolding him. 

I would say, try this: assume he has a problem with his vision, and whenever you come back after an absence (even if it's only a minute), announce your presence by simply speaking when you come into the room. You don't have to say his name or ask him to do anything, just get into the habit of speaking, so he knows it's you coming into the room. Either by talking to yourself, or singing, or whatever. It might make you seem sort of crazy, but it'll be interesting to see whether it has an effect on your dog's behavior.

I do it all the time even though none of my pets have vision problems--and yes, that probably seems crazy to most--I'm always singing to my dogs and cats, usually just a silly tune I make up. I don't know why. :crazy:


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## Quinnsmom (Dec 27, 2008)

There are several canine eye diseases that are progressive but can be treated with medication. One is pannus, which German Shepherds are susceptible to. I would be checking this out promptly if this was my dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We've had vision impaired dogs and they do not act like that. Being a rescue, we've seen all sorts of disabilities, including microphthalmia, and when they can smell the person they do not continue barking, etc.
That is, in the same house, even vision impaired, this dog should not be doing what he was doing which was being afraid and continuing to be very defensive.

To the OP, did you try any of my suggestions regarding approaching the dog? Turning sideways, kneeling down, etc.? Or do you stand facing the dog and leaning in?


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## Williamevanl (Aug 8, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> We've had vision impaired dogs and they do not act like that. Being a rescue, we've seen all sorts of disabilities, including microphthalmia, and when they can smell the person they do not continue barking, etc.
> That is, in the same house, even vision impaired, this dog should not be doing what he was doing which was being afraid and continuing to be very defensive.
> 
> To the OP, did you try any of my suggestions regarding approaching the dog? Turning sideways, kneeling down, etc.? Or do you stand facing the dog and leaning in?


I suppose I mostly face bomber and lean in. I might have missed your earlier post as I don't recall seeing that.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

Williamevanl said:


> I was just going to ask the vet next time we are in for shots. What would/could they do for something like this? Would they do anything? I feel like they would just ask if he gets along fine in everything else that he does and the answer to that is yes. Surely we aren't talking about corrective eye surgery or anything like that are we?


You may want to go in earlier then your regular check up date. Your vet can do an eye exam but if they feel the case needs an ophthalmologist involved it can take a while to get an appointment. It took about a month before an open appointment was available when we had to see one.

Shadow (our lab) has eye issues. Blind from birth on one side, if she was approached from that side, didn't matter if she knows us, could scent us, the surprise scares her. We learned early to just let her know we were there. She gets along fine in everyday life, just the approach she couldn't see startles her.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Based on the fact that OP and his dog seem to have a good relationship when the dog knows who he is, I honestly don't see the dog as "afraid" of the OP.

He *is* afraid when he doesn't recognize the OP.

If the dog were afraid of his owner due to scolding or perceived threat, he wouldn't relax once recognizing him. He'd continue to act afraid, or offer submissive/appeasement behaviors, or run away.

Of course, my opinion is only based on the videos, and what the OP has told us.

Dogs can be strange. I groom a little rescue dog that "forgets" who her foster parents are from time to time. She is extremely skittish and nervous--I don't know her history--but she will warm up to people and act more or less like a normal dog once convinced that she's safe.

However, some days she just gets a wild hair and acts afraid of everyone and everything, for no apparent reason. On those days, her fosters can't even touch her; it's like she forgets who they are and they have to start all over again with her. Once she gets spooked by something, it can take days for her to come around. It's like she's bipolar.

Thankfully, she doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body, and is always good for me when I groom her. I suspect she has some kind of neurological problem.


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## Scarlettsmom (Jul 12, 2011)

Don't know if this is relevant (probably not), but when Scarlett heard the particular bark from the video, she rushed to our front door, which is no where near where the speakers to my computer are. USUALLY, she comes directly to the computer to see/hear what I am watching when a dog barks. This time, she rushed to the front door and began barking herself...We asked her what the dog was saying and she just seemed really amped.

Like I said, it was a weird response of hers, based on what SHE heard. Odd...

I hope you can sort it out. The video seems to show a really agitated dog. That would make me nervous too. The ONLY time I have seen one of our dogs do that is what there was a major thunderstorm while we were at work and we came home to completely freaked out dogs...but that is the ONLY time.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I suppose I mostly face bomber and lean in


To dogs, this is a threatening posture.
In dog language, you quite possibly mean harm.
The response - to the dog freaking out - is to turn sideways, glance sideways- do not stare. Take a slight step away from the dog (half step or so) and maintain sideways posture. 

Don't lean into the dog or over it.
While turning sideways, and your dog is freaking out, gauge his response. Does he relax?
Now, as you're sideways, start crouching down.

Tell me - does the dog relax when you are doing that (if done while dog is freaking out).

Have g/f or wife hide somewhere to video it - whatever you do, don't stand there, leaning in, and have that video equipment or phone on or up to your face...cameras and vids scare dogs. 
They do not know what it means. Sunglasses can freak dogs out too. They can't see your eyes.

If you look back a few pages I explained this. As an ACO I had to modify my body language to help the dog relax.
It teaches you a lot.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> ...By using appropriate body language and calming signals, you could easily let this dog know that you are non-threatening and ease his tension. *Don't loom, hover or stare. Get low, turn sideways, use soft eye and quiet voice.*


Dog Body Language Diagrams

As you work with your dog, you should be moving and changing your posture to help the dog relax.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Well, I think this is a game changer. The fact that he's doing this away from home, and with a stranger might be indicative of something neurological. 
I believe someone mentioned this early on. 
I'm no expert, but from what I've learned, dogs live "in the now". Maybe he's legitimately forgetting you, until you remind him of who you are. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Anthony8858 said:


> I'm no expert, but from what I've learned, dogs live "in the now". Maybe he's legitimately forgetting you, until you remind him of who you are.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


Not quite what "living in the now" means. They shouldn't forget their owner. Just saw a foster dog for the first time since early May yesterday and she clearly remembered me the second she saw me.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm thinking short term memory. 

"living in the now" and not remembering much from yesterday. 


Sent from my iPhone using PG Free


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## bjbryant73 (Dec 2, 2006)

msvette2u said:


> My thoughts--
> A dog that can't see can still smell. I do not think it is his eyes.
> Can't hurt to have him looked at but I don't think it's that.
> 
> ...


Exactly - very well said - couldn't agree more, took the words right out of my mouth - if there was a rep system you'd be getting a green bar from me!!!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

In other words...by watching that vid we are only seeing half the picture.


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