# If they were drowning - your dog or a stranger?



## APBTLove

Interesting topic I saw on game-dog. 

If your dog and a complete stranger were drowning, who would you go after first? 

Now, before anyone says it, it's not fair to say "What if the stranger is a child?".
This stranger is an adult, that you do not know in any way, shape, or form.


Now.. My answer.
I would go for my dog, my family, first. 
Nor do I think I could handle a human in full-blown panic. I'm a small person and am not a strong swimmer.


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## Cassidy's Mom

Where is the poll to vote?


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## Zoeys mom

Oh I feel like a terrible person because I'm not sure exactly. I want to say I'd go for the human, but I think if put in the situation I'd probably grab Zoe first and then the human. I feel like a bad person admitting that though...


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## Miss Molly May

Family first!!! So Molly would be saved first then the stranger unless it was a child


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## Linzi

I would save my dog first.If i was drowning i'm sure my dog would save me,the stranger proberbly wouldn't want to get their feet wet.Linzi


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## Veronica1

I can say that when my pup got into a tift at the dog park and a pack of dogs ran into my 5-year-old niece, knocking her down, I ran after my dog to make sure he was ok. And when a consoling woman came over afterwards to say, "What a good baby," I patted Panzer on the head and commended him - she was really speaking to my niece. 

Not an auntie's finest moment. . . all I can do is hope that if it were a more serious situation, I would have taken more appropriate action.

So in answer to the question, my head says save the drowning stranger.


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## Jax's Mom

I treat others as they have treated me. (if I were a better person I'd treat them as I'd like to be treated )
My dog would save me first, do I'd do the same for them. They regularly risk their own safety to defend me, whether it's out of loyalty or stupidity, doesn't matter to me. Unless the stranger has saved my life before (I guess they wouldn't be a stranger then?)... A life is a life, canine or human, I prioritize my resources.


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## Iletthedogout

What a question!!! 

Save the human and hope that the dogs natural ability to swim keeps it alive until you and the person you saved can get it out of the water. A human life over a dogs... come on! Really!!!

A good dog owner wouldn't allow his or her dog to be in the water without protection from drowning. 

I worry to the degree that people care more for their dogs in some cases than their own children or relatives. 

Here's a question - would you spend $5,000 to pay for an operation for your dog or would you loan the money to a close family member for the same reason?

And if you treat your dog on par or better than the children and people in your life... then heaven help us all.


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## APBTLove

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Where is the poll to vote?


My dumb self tried, but it's not showing up...


And remember, it doesn't matter how they got there, if a good owner would let their dog be in that situation to start with, they are both drowning at the time, not swimming.


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## PaddyD

Amen, Ilet. I hope I'm never drowning near a stranger's dog, sheeeesh !!


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## DharmasMom

Sorry. I hate to say it but I really do like my dog better than quite a few of the humans that I _DO_ know. So I would have to say since this person is a stranger and I have no ties to them I would save my dog first.

But I would certainly yell for help as I went in so that maybe someone would hear and come save the stranger as well!


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## AvaLaRue

Definatly my dog first! My dogs are my life. I can not stand most people....even most of my family members. So I would save my dog first and I would totally understand if I were the one drowning and someone chose to save their dog instead of me.


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## KZoppa

Iletthedogout said:


> What a question!!!
> 
> Save the human and hope that the dogs natural ability to swim keeps it alive until you and the person you saved can get it out of the water. A human life over a dogs... come on! Really!!!
> 
> A good dog owner wouldn't allow his or her dog to be in the water without protection from drowning.
> 
> I worry to the degree that people care more for their dogs in some cases than their own children or relatives.
> 
> Here's a question - would you spend $5,000 to pay for an operation for your dog or would you loan the money to a close family member for the same reason?
> 
> And if you treat your dog on par or better than the children and people in your life... then heaven help us all.


*considering most of my family have serious issues paying back debt of any kind, i would go with the operation for my dog. *



AvaLaRue said:


> Definatly my dog first! My dogs are my life. I can not stand most people....even most of my family members. So I would save my dog first and I would totally understand if I were the one drowning and someone chose to save their dog instead of me.


 
*now thinking on the fact both are drowing and the stranger is NOT a child, i would choose my dog first. I have no connections to the stranger and my dogs are a part of my family. The fact that i dont like most people to begin with.... my dog. Then MAYBE if the stranger was still managing to not die when i got my dog safe, i would go in after them. But i'm not a strong swimmer so we'd probably all die anyway. *


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## BernBaby

Jeez, what a bunch of sociopaths we have here.

I love my pups, all three. Losing one of them would hurt. But I could not be pleased with a decision that allowed a human to die if I had the power to prevent it, stranger or not.

Now, if I knew that the person were an a-hole, that might be different.


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## DCluver33

hum tough question. I really don't know what I'd do. I would probably end up going after my dog first especially since I don't know the person. Then if the person is still alive I've go after the person, But i'm not the best swimmer so we'd probably all drown in the process of me trying to save them.


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## vat

I would try to save both and then I would drown in the process, lol. If I didn't drown and saved the stranger then with my luck they would probably sue me because I cracked a rib or something.


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## Shavy

BernBaby said:


> Jeez, what a bunch of sociopaths we have here.
> 
> I love my pups, all three. Losing one of them would hurt. But I could not be pleased with a decision that allowed a human to die if I had the power to prevent it, stranger or not.


Agreed. I'm totally floored that people could realistically say they would let another human being die when they had the power to save them. You may love your dog (and I have loved mine), but they're dogs, not people. That person you allowed to drown because you were saving your "family" has a family of their own. They may have a spouse, and children. They could be someone's brother or daughter or granddaughter. No matter who they are, someone loves them, and someone probably depends on them. And you would let them die because your dog is more important than someone's wife or grandfather.

I'm totally disgusted.


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## PaddyD

Shavy said it best.


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## SchHGSD

I dislike people. Hate most of them. But I would save the human being first, then my dog. I would be heartbroken, said and cry a lot if I lost my dog. If I was responsible for the death of a person, though, I would have a hard time sleeping at night.

Really surprised most of you would not! I think you all might be what I do NOT like about humans.


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## GSDOwner2008

I would save the human first. Hopefully my dog being a GSD would be able to swim and if he couldn't, he wouldn't be going anywhere near a huge body of water without being on a lead. To me a human life is way more valuable. While it would hurt me deeply to lose Zeus or a future dog, the guilt of letting someone die because I chose an animal over them is something I could not bear. That stranger is someone's child and for a parent to lose a child is one of the most horrible things in the world. That stranger could also be someone else's only means of money and food on the table not to mention someone's wife or husband or parent.


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## Liesje

The human, if for no other reason that I couldn't live with the consequences. I don't think I could ever look at my dog, or look at myself in the mirror again letting another human die. My dog, he would not die in vain, he would die to save another person.

Honestly though, it would depend on conditions, for both the dog OR the human. I grew up on Lake Michigan and in most situations where someone is drowning, there's a good reason and it's not safe for other people to be heroic. We've had multiple drownings this year that were people trying to save other people. Also I'm not a very good swimmer.

I guess the question is could I risk *my* life for either?...


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## Miikkas mom

This reminds me of an assignment I had in high school (a long, long time ago). If I remember correctly I had to pick from a list of people – all with different backgrounds - who should be selected, and why they should be selected, to go to a secured bomb shelter because there was a pending nuclear attack. Everyone outside of the bomb shelter would die. 

Now, to answer the question about drowning human vs drowning dog.....I guess it would depend on which dog....... 


Just kidding


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## Hercules

Well I am a fairly strong swimmer and I would have to say, I would try to save both at once, I've had to carry pretty heavy loads in the water before, if I was not able to do that, then DEFINITELY I would go after my dog first.


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## Lorelei

I like questions like these. Of course, I am not sure how accurately we can predict our own behavior.

In my opinion, I feel like my dog is my responsibility. It is my job to keep him/her safe, and therefore I should do what I can to keep up my end of the agreement to look out for one another, which I feel that I agreed to when I brought that dog into my life. I've never understood how one life can be more 'valuable' than another, unless you go by what an individual does with that life, but truthfully, most people cause more destruction and damage to the world than a dog does, so does that mean a dog's life is more valuable? So, I can't try and judge a soul based on 'value', so I would think I would save my dog, just because I feel that it is my job. Maybe that is horrible? Perhaps. Of course, as I learned in Social psych., what we say we'll do and what we do are often totally different!

Also, I should say, I don't feel I can judge others based on their replies, because we all form bonds differently. There are many types of people that form connections with other animals much more easily than with other people, and I feel that is okay. (Of course, I might be a bit displeased if I was the one flailing around in the water, watching someone rushing in, only to shove me aside so they can get to their pup!)


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## Liesje

No, we cannot judge (and I don't judge anyone's responses here), but you also cannot say that what one chooses depends on their "bond" with their dog, as if choosing a human means there is not a bond with the dog or it's any less of a bond than anyone else has, or that it is more difficult for one to bond with a dog.


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## Marissa

I would of course try to save both but I would have to try and save the human first if I couldn't get both. My dogs are my best friends but I couldn't live with letting a human die. Im very sad that so many people dont even have to think too deeply about this decision and disregard the human!! I just hope that I never have to be in this position!!!!!


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## bianca

This is a good question. I love my dog more than life itself (obsessed much?) but in all honesty I would do everything possible to save the human first. I am a strong swimmer (used to play water polo years ago). I think for me, how would I feel if that stranger was my mum or dad and somebody didn't try to help because they tried to save their dog? No doubt in my mind, human first. I should also say that in general I don't really like 'people'.


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## Iletthedogout

Here's an option - 
Save the dog and then use a treat and clicker in hopes that positive training will encourage the human to learn to swim before he or she drowns!!!

But don't yell at the human because you only want him or her to have positive associations with you prior to visiting Davey Jone's locker!!!


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## Marissa

Iletthedogout said:


> Here's an option -
> Save the dog and then use a treat and clicker in hopes that positive training will encourage the human to learn to swim before he or she drowns!!!
> 
> But don't yell at the human because you only want him or her to have positive associations with you prior to visiting Davey Jone's locker!!!


LOL!!! Now it doesn't say what kind of water we are dealing with. What if they were drowing in rapids and even Michael Phelps couldn't get himself out of the situation...


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## VitaBene

*Thank you*



Shavy said:


> Agreed. I'm totally floored that people could realistically say they would let another human being die when they had the power to save them. You may love your dog (and I have loved mine), but they're dogs, not people. That person you allowed to drown because you were saving your "family" has a family of their own. They may have a spouse, and children. They could be someone's brother or daughter or granddaughter. No matter who they are, someone loves them, and someone probably depends on them. And you would let them die because your dog is more important than someone's wife or grandfather.
> 
> I'm totally disgusted.


Thank you Shavy


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## Good_Karma

Okay, I've been guilted into saying I'd save the stranger, but he'd better buy me a new dog!


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## KZoppa

Good_Karma said:


> Okay, I've been guilted into saying I'd save the stranger, but he'd better buy me a new dog!


 
i think i'm with you on this one. BUT since i'm not a water person and tend to avoid it i honestly have nothing to worry about. My dogs hate water more than i do.


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## Cassidy's Mom

My dogs are saving ME. They're much better swimmers than I am.


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## IllinoisNative

Liesje said:


> No, we cannot judge (and I don't judge anyone's responses here), but you also cannot say that what one chooses depends on their "bond" with their dog, as if choosing a human means there is not a bond with the dog or it's any less of a bond than anyone else has, or that it is more difficult for one to bond with a dog.


Completely agree. 

I would do everything I could to save the human first (I would hope that someone would chose to save me instead of their dog if I was the stranger...lol). That has no bearing on my love/bond with my dog. It would break my heart to let my dog die. I love my dog more than anything...including most humans. But I couldn't live with myself if I let another person die.

The good news is that I most likely will never encounter this scenario. But I don't think saving a person reflects on my love for my dog, or that someone who choses their dog over a human means they love their dog more. I honestly don't get that thinking...at all.


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## Elaine

I would swim past the drowning person to get to my dog if needed and I don't care who they were. I would certainly start yelling for help for the human so someone else can save them then go get them after my dog if needed.


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## Iletthedogout

IllinoisNative said:


> But I don't think saving a person reflects on my love for my dog, or that someone who choses their dog over a human means they love their dog more. I honestly don't get that thinking...at all.


I'll be honest I am probably somewhat judgmental on this question. I think the question undermines the value of life in general. Picking and choosing who or what lives shouldn't be taken lightly. 

But quite frankly, I personally think that human life is more important than a dog's. In everything that we do. 

I love my dog and I want to to do all that I can to make sure that he is a good companion for the family. It takes a lot of time. But if I have to choose between the hours I spend training my dog and monitoring its' every itch, poop or limp versus spending time providing guidance for my children, helping them with their homework, making sure that they are exercising and eating healthy then its a no brainer for me... I chose my children. 

I know this is a GSD Forum so the subject matter is based on our loved animals so the content and value placed on our pets is skewed. But the question and some of the responses makes me wonder if we have the right perspective when weighing our dogs against everything or everyone else. 

Sorry for the rant. But if you ever see me drowning please throw me a rope not a bone!!!


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## CNTLOSE

I would save the stranger first and hope to get back to my dog. I understand our dogs are our family, but that stranger has a family too. He/She may have kids and how could I ever live with myself knowing I let someones daddy/mommy drown.


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## Gib Laut

Shavy said:


> Agreed. I'm totally floored that people could realistically say they would let another human being die when they had the power to save them. You may love your dog (and I have loved mine), but they're dogs, not people. That person you allowed to drown because you were saving your "family" has a family of their own. They may have a spouse, and children. They could be someone's brother or daughter or granddaughter. No matter who they are, someone loves them, and someone probably depends on them. And you would let them die because your dog is more important than someone's wife or grandfather.
> 
> I'm totally disgusted.


Easy, MY DOG. What disgusts me more is the "throw away society" we have become when it comes to animals. He was brought into MY family by ME....hence, he is MY responsibility. Of all the animals I do or have known, all of them are better the vast majority of strangers I encounter daily. Besides, reality is, my dog has been trained by me go to someone if they are drowning to help them. Now, if the human was drowning him as he tried to do his rescue, easy save my dog....if that disgusts anyone, that's ok, I can live with that....and in the end, that is what matters and that is what makes decisions for people; their own ability to live with their individual decisions.


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## crisp

I would save my dog, treat, and then have her save the person, then treat again....Good Girl!!!


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## Liesje

I guess I now consider myself blessed I am not constantly meeting strangers that are better off drowned!


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## Zoeys mom

I think everyone would want to save both- it's kinda of an unfair question. A human life is more important sure- but when it's your own dog? If I knew the human that would change things, but honestly my dogs to me mean more than a stranger right or wrong. Of course who really knows because in the situation instincts may be different than what I think now. I know as a medical student I may chose human over dog just in practice but either way if either were injured or killed I would feel like I made the wrong choice.


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## KZoppa

Zoeys mom said:


> I think everyone would want to save both- it's kinda of an unfair question. A human life is more important sure- but when it's your own dog? If I knew the human that would change things, but honestly my dogs to me mean more than a stranger right or wrong. Of course who really knows because in the situation instincts may be different than what I think now. I know as a medical student I may chose human over dog just in practice but either way if either were injured or killed I would feel like I made the wrong choice.


 
well said. i agree its an unfair question. 

in all honesty i would probably choose the person despite my extreme dislike of other people in general and hope my dog learned how to swim quick!


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## Shavy

Gib Laut said:


> Easy, MY DOG. What disgusts me more is the "throw away society" we have become when it comes to animals. He was brought into MY family by ME....hence, he is MY responsibility.


I wish this forum had the wtf emoticon so I could throw it up right now. Choosing to save a human in danger of DYING does NOT make you an irresponsible, "throw away" owner. What. The. Eff.


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## Gib Laut

Shavy said:


> I wish this forum had the wtf emoticon so I could throw it up right now. Choosing to save a human in danger of DYING does NOT make you an irresponsible, "throw away" owner. What. The. Eff.


actually you added "irresponsible"....I choose to save my responsibility.


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## selzer

I would save the person if I could. If not I would die and the person would die and my dog would die, and the three of us would not be worried about survivor's guilt.

I could wake up and look at myself in the mirror if I knew that I let my dog die in order to save a person. I do not think I could do that if I let a person die in order to save my dog. My dog is only here for a number of years, no one is dependent on him/her. Her sire/dam may already be dead and if not, they get over not seeing their pack members. Her puppies are my responsibility. 

But the stranger is someone's son/daughter, sister/brother, grand parent, parent. There are few people out there that have no connection with anyone. I love my dogs like my kin, but humans are more important.


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## Zoeys mom

I get both arguments and don't think anyone should be chastised here. Who here really wants a person to die? Who here wants their dog to die? Okay no one- so obviously we would all try our best to save both. I hope I would save a human first. but what if I didn't? What if my dog were 5 ft. away and the human 10ft? What if I was a bad swimmer and couldn't save either? The truth is unless put in the situation no one knows what they would do for sure


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## Elaine

I know for sure I would go for my dog first. In reality, my dog is a great swimmer and if he was in trouble, I would probably drown too. 

Any human stupid enough to get into the position of drowning, is not my problem. My dog is my responsibility and is my concern. Let someone else save the stupid human who either didn't learn to swim before going in the water without a life preserver on or is drunk and I just don't care about what happens to drunks.


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## Shavy

Elaine said:


> Any human stupid enough to get into the position of drowning, is not my problem. My dog is my responsibility and is my concern. Let someone else save the stupid human who either didn't learn to swim before going in the water without a life preserver on or is drunk and I just don't care about what happens to drunks.


I hope your loved ones are never in a position where someone like you feels their life isn't worth saving because they miscalculated risks, weren't aware of specific factors, or had a fluke accident.


I'm appalled that so many people seem not to value human life at all, simply because they don't know that person. It has been said that those who don't get on well with people often turn to bonding with animals, but this is totally ridiculous.

What about if your friend is drowning? Would you not save them? After all, they're "not your responsibility", right? Who tops priority then, the dog or your friend? or your parent? or your child?


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## Syaoransbear

I don't think I'd save either, I can't swim very well even with a life-jacket on, and I panic if I'm in water higher than 4 feet.

If I could, I'd try to save my dog. I would feel like I betrayed him if I saved the person instead of him.


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## Zoeys mom

I think if we knew the person that would be different. If it were my friend. child, or parent I would be right there dog or not without question. Human life is more important than the life of another mammal. The question in itself is kinda unfair. Haven't you watched those shows "what would you do"? Most people don't do what they think they would do outside of the situation once in it. I hope I would save the human first but I can't say what I'd do for sure because the situation has not presented itself to me in real life.


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## Catu

[LEFT said:


> Shavy[/LEFT];1903210]
> I'm appalled that so many people seem not to value human life at all, simply because they don't know that person. It has been said that those who don't get on well with people often turn to bonding with animals, but this is totally ridiculous.


I feel the same too. 
I'd go for the human. 

You don't only have to take decisions in the moment, you have to live with them afterwards.

Hey! I put my SAR dogs at risk for the chance of saving a human life every mission I go.


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## selzer

Wow. One day in february, my neighbor had a litter of puppies less than a month old. It was outside in straw under an igloo dog house. 

We are talking NE Ohio, so there is snow and ice and yuck. 

Well, I noticed the igloo had been blown over the ravine. I walked over there, and the puppies were exposed. I knocked on their door. No answer. I did not have a cell at the time. I looked over the ravine and saw that the river was up and moving fast, but I also saw the igloo and thought I could get it. 

I started down the ravine. BTW, I live alone out in the boonies, no one would know I was missing for a day or two. 

Suddenly the mud that appeared solid slid and it was just me, and this huge tree between the roaring river. I could not climb back up. I was down there for hours hanging on to that tree. I may have been stupid, but not drunk. 

I heard the Amish neighbor in his timber. I yelled and yelled. I got all the dogs barking. The sound was NOT rising. But eventually, he did holler over the cliff toward me. He let down a rope and I pulled myself out. He then rescued the igloo. And I put it over the puppies in the straw. 

I was one small slip from being in the river and requiring rescue. 

What would you do, Elaine if you saw your neighbor's puppies without shelter? Would you go and gather their shelter and put it back over top of them? It is not your responsiblity, surely not your concern. 

Years earlier, I had saved my dogs from that river once. Frodo went over on the ice and then could not get back. I ended up having to go into the river, grab him, and push him out. While trying to climb up, Arwen my other neighbor's property who had a bridge. The water was lapping over the bridge and Arwen who was a pup at the time, slid into the water, I had to grab her and haul her out as well. Arwen ended up with a slight case of hypothermia, but recovered completely. 

I can certainly see needing to help my dog out of a situation that included water, or help a human.


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## KZoppa

Zoeys mom said:


> I think if we knew the person that would be different. If it were my friend. child, or parent I would be right there dog or not without question. Human life is more important than the life of another mammal. The question in itself is kinda unfair. Haven't you watched those shows "what would you do"? Most people don't do what they think they would do outside of the situation once in it. I hope I would save the human first but I can't say what I'd do for sure because the situation has not presented itself to me in real life.


 

and i for one pray it never does!!! 

I have a fear of water and my dogs arent exactly thrilled with it either. I can swim but not strongly. I should actually rephrase that. I have a fear of wild water. Swimming pools i'm fine. i dont like the idea of not knowing or being able to see whats going to get me until its too late. Too many Jaws movies i guess but still. I guess in all realty if my dog really couldnt swim, i'd be kicking myself anyway for not putting a life jacket on him (for dogs of course before someone snaps) but it would depend on who was closest. Yes, i understand the STRANGER would have family who would miss them but going with the stranger mentality, werent we all taught as kids not to talk to strangers? What if that person was actually a murderer? YOU NEVER KNOW! And with the way things are these days, i'm not sure i would want to take that risk. not to mention if they're drowning they're panicking anyway and could very possibly kill you in their attempt to save themselves. I wouldnt know for sure what i would do unless actually put in that situation but i think i would still probably save my dog. again, until i'm put in the situation and act differently from what i've said about saving my dog, i cant be sure. Everyone has made valid points but it really does depend on the person and whether it actually were to happen.


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## Ruthie

I am so deeply disturbed that people place the value of a dog no matter how loved over another human life. 

In reality, I wouldn't have to figure this one out. Bison doesn't like water too much and I am not a good enough swimmer to try to rescue anyone from drowning. 

But as much as it would hurt, I would always choose the human over him. I don't care who it is. Maybe it is my world view, but no matter how bad a person is, they still have value.


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## selzer

Catu said:


> I feel the same too.
> I'd go for the human.
> 
> You don't only have to take decisions in the moment, you have to live with them afterwards.
> 
> Hey! I put my SAR dogs at risk for the chance of saving a human life every mission I go.


And SAR dogs are often injured in the field. Thanks for doing this. It is a lot to ask.

I have stopped to help strangers. Strangers have stopped to help me. I have not been in many life threatening situations, but I would do what I could for a stranger, and hope that one would for me.


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## KZoppa

perhaps its just my severe distrust in people that makes me say i would choose my dog. but as i've stated, unless i were actually put in the situation, i would never truly know for sure. All i can do is pray i'm never in the situation it would require me to decide. I'll pull over and help people but never by myself. i have multiple flashlights in my car just in case i should ever need to use them in a darkened place. I make sure to park under a lit streetlamp at night, i keep my keys in my hand in case i should need to use them as a weapon. It could also be that i didnt grow up in the greatest of places that gives me the mentality i have. I like to think of myself as a good person but i'm not ALWAYS a good person. Now that i think deeper into it, i'd probably save the stranger just to smack them for getting themselves in that situation to begin with.


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## selzer

And I have stopped and picked up a drunk guy in the middle of the night who ditched his car and drove him to the hospital to meet his wife who was a nurse there. Absolutely stupid really, but it was raining, and my road is long and lonely walking it -- been there and done that. I have picked up more than one person on that section of road. 

Normally, I do not pick up people hitching. But sometimes the situation is just so, and I do it. Maybe some day I will be sorry. I guess I cannot stop living because someone might do something bad. I park by streetlights and have my keys in my hand too, but I have been known to help people out now and again.


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## Ruthie

Lorelei said:


> ...Also, I should say, I don't feel I can judge others based on their replies...


What does that even mean? Judge if they are right or wrong? Judge if they are good or bad?

To "judge" merely means to form an opinion. I can certainly form an opinion about some of these responses. But it is just that, an opinion.


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## selzer

I think it is true that unless we are facing the situation we really will not know what we will do.


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## KZoppa

selzer said:


> And I have stopped and picked up a drunk guy in the middle of the night who ditched his car and drove him to the hospital to meet his wife who was a nurse there. Absolutely stupid really, but it was raining, and my road is long and lonely walking it -- been there and done that. I have picked up more than one person on that section of road.
> 
> Normally, I do not pick up people hitching. But sometimes the situation is just so, and I do it. Maybe some day I will be sorry. I guess I cannot stop living because someone might do something bad. I park by streetlights and have my keys in my hand too, but I have been known to help people out now and again.


 
i'm not saying i dont help people out. I'm just saying i dont trust easily and therefore usually dont unless someone is with me. I wont go through a drive thru window at night unless i have someone with me or one of my dogs simply because i've been robbed at gunpoint while i was at a drivethru after dark. having had bad experiences tends to put people on edge and i've always been very suspicious of people until they prove they're trustworthy. Thats just me. I respect that you help people. thats great. it takes someone special to help total strangers even rarely despite the possibilities. perhaps i've just experienced too much bad in such a short amount of time to make me the way i am.


----------



## Shavy

selzer said:


> And SAR dogs are often injured in the field. Thanks for doing this. It is a lot to ask.


I'd like to second this.


----------



## Elaine

Shavy said:


> I'm appalled that so many people seem not to value human life at all, simply because they don't know that person. It has been said that those who don't get on well with people often turn to bonding with animals, but this is totally ridiculous.
> 
> What about if your friend is drowning? Would you not save them? After all, they're "not your responsibility", right? Who tops priority then, the dog or your friend? or your parent? or your child?


Like I said, my dog comes first and just don't care how appalled you are. There is nothing like the holier than thou attitude to rub me the wrong way and further my bad impression of the general public. 

My friends aren't stupid enough to get in a situation where they were in danger of drowning and if they did, they would head for my dog knowing I would go for him first and hope I would get both of them out.


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## Syaoransbear

Meh, I don't see the problem with someone choosing their dog over a person. If you are putting your life at risk to save something, you'll probably want to save the one that you love. And you didn't really have to save either of them. If I was drowning with someone's dog and they saved the dog instead of me, I'd understand. For some people, that is their friends and family.


----------



## codmaster

Tough interesting question! And one that we all hope that we never really have to answer!


----------



## Lorelei

Ruthie said:


> What does that even mean? Judge if they are right or wrong? Judge if they are good or bad?
> 
> To "judge" merely means to form an opinion. I can certainly form an opinion about some of these responses. But it is just that, an opinion.


I'm obviously not in a position to judge the right/wrong and good/bads!

I just felt bad that some people were being called out on their choices, especially the ones who decided to save their dog, (which is what I believe I would do). I am probably 'overly-sensitive, and no one minds being called out, but I felt horrible about myself each time someone said how wrong it was to pick your dog, so I wanted to put in the part about everyone feeling differently about the situation, and that I think it is impossible to say how other people 'should or shouldn't' react

Basically I can undertand both sides, have my own opinions and emotions on the topic, but I wanted to add that even though I maybe see it one way, I don't look at anyone differently if they see it a different way... That's all! Sorry if it came out different! I don't usually get on forums, so I am not real savvy at getting my point across without coming across differently! (hence, I don't get on forums very often. Its like a vicious circle!)


----------



## frillint1

I would have to say I would try and save both. I am a small girl, but I am a strong swimmer.I would try and save the human 1st, because I always have smokey on a lead or if we are by water I have his lifejacket on. If for some reason he didn't have it on I would probably save him either way if i was in the situation. After all he has saved me 3 times! I couldn't let him die and he is 13 I wouldn't be able to live knowing he saved my life, but I didn't save his.


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## doggiedad

the right thing to do is to save the human, ummm!!!!


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## LaRen616

Syaoransbear said:


> Meh, I don't see the problem with someone choosing their dog over a person. If you are putting your life at risk to save something, you'll probably want to save the one that you love. And you didn't really have to save either of them. If I was drowning with someone's dog and they saved the dog instead of me, I'd understand. For some people, that is their friends and family.


I agree with this post.

I would save my dog before I would save someone that I dont even know.

I dont have kids, I dont have a boyfriend or a husband, my dogs and my cats are my family, there is nothing that I wouldn't do for them. I love them to death. They are the only thing that matters to me.


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## Ruthie

Lorelei said:


> I'm obviously not in a position to judge the right/wrong and good/bads!
> 
> I just felt bad that some people were being called out on their choices, especially the ones who decided to save their dog, (which is what I believe I would do). I am probably 'overly-sensitive, and no one minds being called out, but I felt horrible about myself each time someone said how wrong it was to pick your dog, so I wanted to put in the part about everyone feeling differently about the situation, and that I think it is impossible to say how other people 'should or shouldn't' react
> 
> Basically I can undertand both sides, have my own opinions and emotions on the topic, but I wanted to add that even though I maybe see it one way, I don't look at anyone differently if they see it a different way... That's all! Sorry if it came out different! I don't usually get on forums, so I am not real savvy at getting my point across without coming across differently! (hence, I don't get on forums very often. Its like a vicious circle!)


 
I guess that phrase just rubs me the wrong way. It is a pet peive of mine. I don't mean to single you out just because you are the one that posted it first. I just strongly disagree.

In society today, people are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that no one will say something is right or something is wrong. I would even bend to quailfying that with a "I think it is wrong", because I understand that we don't draw our values from the same place. 

It bothers me that if you say that you think something is wrong that suddenly YOU are the bad guy. Makes me want to state it even more clearly than before. If you don't want to agree with me, fine, but putting the life of an animal above a human is wrong and it is selfish.


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## Mrs.K

Honestly, if my dogs ever get into the situation of drowning I'd probably be right next to them drowning too.


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## cuttingedge

Being that I am new here and don't want to have people think negatively about me I am going to answer this truthfully and hope that people understand my position.
Being a Volunteer Firefighter I have had the pleasure of saving a few people in bad situations. Most of them have expressed gratitude and Some even said thank you. I have never had to save a Dog but am sure that after the panic that they went through they would be more appreciative and grateful than there human counterparts. 
Also I think that it would be easier to resuscitate a human.
So I am gonna say my Dog would be first on the list.

Jason


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## DFrost

Very interesting question, the answers even more so. It would be interesting to also know; how many that responded they would save the dog first are folks involved with SAR. My answer; easy peasy, like the firefighter stated; the living human always comes first. We've taken an oath.

DFrost


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## Tarheel

The dog comes first, no question.


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## cuttingedge

DFrost said:


> like the firefighter stated; the living human always comes first. We've taken an oath.
> 
> DFrost


Um I said my dog comes first. I took an oath when they became a part of my family.


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## LaRen616

cuttingedge said:


> Um I said my dog comes first. I took an oath when they became a part of my family.


:thumbup:


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## Elaine

DFrost said:


> the living human always comes first. We've taken an oath.DFrost


I'm curious, what oath would that be? I was in EMS for years and there was no oath that I was ever aware of. Police have to uphold the law, but that's about it. Other than making a phone call or telling someone else to get help, you are not obligated to help anyone when off duty.


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## Lilie

I would save the human first. I wouldn't think twice about it. I couldn't bare to see the pain in the human's family's face if thier loved one died and they knew I could have prevented it. The pain that I would feel loosing my much loved dog would be mine to bare alone. I would accept that. But I would know that my dog made the ultimate sacrifice for me, and I would love him deeply forever for it. 

I can honestly say that I have no idea what I would do if my baby girl drowned and I found out that she could have been rescued, but they saved thier dog instead. That they put more value on their dog, then my baby girl. I truly, have no idea what I would do...and that scares me just a little bit.


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## paulag1955

Good God, I hope neither my dog nor a total stranger ever needs to count on me in a possible drowning situation. We'd all three end up dead.


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## Goofy

As much as I love goofy, I would save the human life...first and then probably drown trying to save goofy.


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## Narny

Lorelei said:


> *In my opinion, I feel like my dog is my responsibility. It is my job to keep him/her safe, and therefore I should do what I can to keep up my end of the agreement to look out for one another, which I feel that I agreed to when I brought that dog into my life*.



I agree with this for the most part. I feel strongly that I would be able to save both... there are life saving devises called pants and most people have them. In the water they can easily be turned into flotation devises. I have been trained in this type of water rescue and I hope *cross fingers* that I would be able to save them both. 

Mind you, drowning people are more likely to kill the person trying to save them then a dog would, so watch yourself cause it would suck for you to die in the process. I am a strong swimmer but I would definitely be putting myself my husband and kids lives at risk if I tried to save someone who was much bigger than me if I didnt have a vest. 

If it were a child I feel confidant in saying I would be able to save them both being that its less likely that a child would drown me in the process.


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## selzer

This thread kind of bothers me. 

Maybe we haven't come so far after all when it comes to dog ownership. I mean, when I was a kid, thirty - forty years ago, and dogs were mostly living outside tied to dog houses, and came in only when it was too cold for man or beast, and then they were regulated to a back hallway, kitchen, garage, or basement, this would not even have been a question. 

No one would have bothered who you would save first. People often helped/rescued people they did not know at all. When my friend and I were mugged, we ran right up onto a stranger's porch and through their door without knocking, and the people called our parents -- no problem. People did that and much much more for complete strangers. 

Nowadays, there are rescuers, SAR people, police officers who will put their dogs in danger to save complete strangers. These are dogs that are expensive, have awesome bonds with their handlers, and are very well trained. I would say these dogs are VERY loved by their people. 

And everyone thinks that is ok. That those people can and should put their dogs out there and risk injury and even death for complete strangers. 

But we, we would let a person burn in a building or drown in a lake because we were busy fishing our dog out??? Think about this being a burning building. Elevator broken, your dog is on the third floor in a crate. You rush in to save him. And you see a person in a wheel chair unable to get down the stairs. Do you rush past him for your dog???


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## Shavy

Ruthie said:


> I guess that phrase just rubs me the wrong way. It is a pet peive of mine. I don't mean to single you out just because you are the one that posted it first. I just strongly disagree.
> 
> In society today, people are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that no one will say something is right or something is wrong. I would even bend to quailfying that with a "I think it is wrong", because I understand that we don't draw our values from the same place.
> 
> It bothers me that if you say that you think something is wrong that suddenly YOU are the bad guy. Makes me want to state it even more clearly than before. If you don't want to agree with me, fine, but putting the life of an animal above a human is wrong and it is selfish.


Yes. Thank you. There are some things (like crating versus not) that are a matter of opinion. And then there are those things that tell what kind of a person you are, clear rights and wrongs.

I was reminded of this thread today when I was on the bus on the way home from work. It was just after school gets out and many people get off of work, and in true NYC rush hour fashion, the bus was full to the capacity where you literally could not cram anymore people inside and they stopped picking up passengers. Two substantially (but not debilitatingly) overweight women in their 30's were sitting at the front of the bus, in the seats designated for the "elderly and disabled" (there's even a sign above the seats stating such). Now, an elderly asian man with a cane boarded the bus and attempted to sit in the middle seat that these two women were spilling into with their flab. He was at least in his 70's and shaky on his feet. No other seat on the bus was available. He tried to squeeze between these women and couldn't fit all the way into the seat. What did these women do? Instead of jumping up and offering him the extra room, or even trying to move over a bit to give the poor man some space to sit properly, instead they shot him dirty looks and told each other "well I AIN'T gettin' up!". That's not a difference of opinion. You're a pile of dog poo wrapped in skin. Some things just ARE a reflection on one's poor morals, lack of etiquette/manners, or lack of any common decency and basic humanity. 

Now, I'm not saying the "save the dog first" people are piles of dog poo (unless you are one of the aforementioned ladies, in which case I hope you never procreate and pass on such a disgusting and repulsive attitude to your children). But I AM saying that someone who doesn't value a human life over the life of a dog - any human, over any dog - is showing that they have a seriously skewed moral compass. That's not a valid, acceptable choice, anymore than murdering people is a valid, acceptable choice, or torturing animals for fun is a valid, acceptable choice, or stealing from others is a valid, acceptable choice. It's a basic moral tenet that human life has more intrinsic value than the life of an animal. Thinking otherwise is a deviation from the morals of our society at large and an abnormality because of it.

That said, I think, as was mentioned several times, that people may ACT very differently than what they THINK when the idea is purely hypothetical. I also think that someone who opts not to put their own lives in danger in order to save another (while also not saving their dog) is not selfish - and in some cases it may be supremely selfish to do so (such as someone who is the sole provider or caregiver for their family). 



paulag1955 said:


> Good God, I hope neither my dog nor a total stranger ever needs to count on me in a possible drowning situation. We'd all three end up dead.


:lol: Thanks for the laugh. 




selzer said:


> This thread kind of bothers me.
> 
> Maybe we haven't come so far after all when it comes to dog ownership. I mean, when I was a kid, thirty - forty years ago, and dogs were mostly living outside tied to dog houses, and came in only when it was too cold for man or beast, and then they were regulated to a back hallway, kitchen, garage, or basement, this would not even have been a question.
> 
> No one would have bothered who you would save first. People often helped/rescued people they did not know at all. When my friend and I were mugged, we ran right up onto a stranger's porch and through their door without knocking, and the people called our parents -- no problem. People did that and much much more for complete strangers.
> 
> Nowadays, there are rescuers, SAR people, police officers who will put their dogs in danger to save complete strangers. These are dogs that are expensive, have awesome bonds with their handlers, and are very well trained. I would say these dogs are VERY loved by their people.
> 
> And everyone thinks that is ok. That those people can and should put their dogs out there and risk injury and even death for complete strangers.
> 
> But we, we would let a person burn in a building or drown in a lake because we were busy fishing our dog out??? Think about this being a burning building. Elevator broken, your dog is on the third floor in a crate. You rush in to save him. And you see a person in a wheel chair unable to get down the stairs. Do you rush past him for your dog???


Good post.


----------



## Ruthie

selzer said:


> This thread kind of bothers me.
> 
> Maybe we haven't come so far after all when it comes to dog ownership. I mean, when I was a kid, thirty - forty years ago, and dogs were mostly living outside tied to dog houses, and came in only when it was too cold for man or beast, and then they were regulated to a back hallway, kitchen, garage, or basement, this would not even have been a question.
> 
> No one would have bothered who you would save first. People often helped/rescued people they did not know at all. When my friend and I were mugged, we ran right up onto a stranger's porch and through their door without knocking, and the people called our parents -- no problem. People did that and much much more for complete strangers.
> 
> Nowadays, there are rescuers, SAR people, police officers who will put their dogs in danger to save complete strangers. These are dogs that are expensive, have awesome bonds with their handlers, and are very well trained. I would say these dogs are VERY loved by their people.
> 
> And everyone thinks that is ok. That those people can and should put their dogs out there and risk injury and even death for complete strangers.
> 
> But we, we would let a person burn in a building or drown in a lake because we were busy fishing our dog out??? Think about this being a burning building. Elevator broken, your dog is on the third floor in a crate. You rush in to save him. And you see a person in a wheel chair unable to get down the stairs. Do you rush past him for your dog???


:thumbup:


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## jakeandrenee

Can someone explain the nature of such a post???


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## selzer

I dunno. When I talked to my father about it last night, he said we all had too much time on our hands.


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## jakeandrenee

It just seems odd and depressing.....certainly not about GSD's.


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## Zoeys mom

I'm all for giving my seat to the elderly, volunteer at our local homeless with my children, volunteer at my kids school, run 5k's for autism, cancer, and lou gehrig's, and mow my elderly neighbors lawn even though I'm allergic to everything outside and spend the next week covered in hives and sneezing everywhere. I also believe in human life being more important than an animals and still can't say for sure what I'd do. I assume I'd go for the human if they were closer, but I know no matter where my dog was drowning I'd go for them whether or not their was another human drowning, and no matter how far out they were. My dog whether animal or not is MY family and loved only beneath my own children and spouse. Just like with my family there would NEVER be a situation I didn't go out of my way to ensure they were safe with everything I have. The bond we all share with our dogs is certainly stronger than the bond we share with a stranger so I can't say I am appalled when people say my dog first.


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## Shavy

Zoeys mom said:


> My dog whether animal or not is MY family and loved only beneath my own children and spouse.


So if Grandma is drowning a few meters away from Zoey, you'll make it up to her with a really nice eulogy?


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## selzer

I think it might depend on whether it was her mother or her mother in law???


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## Jax08

Is it the stranger's fault my dog is drowning? That might make a difference.

Honestly, I want to say the person but I tend to panic and am not a strong swimmer so I would probably start by screaming for help and hoping someone better than me comes along if I didn't completely freeze and just go for my dog. 

It's hard to say what someone would really do in a moment like this.
21186D94-1EF4-3154-BA72-E2EDDD512D52
1.03.01


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## Shavy

selzer said:


> I think it might depend on whether it was her mother or her mother in law???


OMG, i seriously LOL'd...shame on you, I have a horrible sore throat.


----------



## Zoeys mom

Shavy said:


> So if Grandma is drowning a few meters away from Zoey, you'll make it up to her with a really nice eulogy?


Grandma died of Lou Gehrig's 4 years ago- but if it were my Grandmother there would be no question. Granny would definitely be coming with me. I said in a past post my family and friends would be saved first. I even assume I'd go for the stranger first- but seriously if the stranger is half way across the bay and my dog 15ft. out common sense would probably prevail. 

If it were my MIL I'd even go for her first- she's pretty cool


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## KZoppa

Zoeys mom said:


> Grandma died of Lou Gehrig's 4 years ago- but if it were my Grandmother there would be no question. Granny would definitely be coming with me. I said in a past post my family and friends would be saved first. I even assume I'd go for the stranger first- but seriously if the stranger is half way across the bay and my dog 15ft. out common sense would probably prevail.
> 
> If it were my MIL I'd even go for her first- she's pretty cool


 
i like my MIL but she's a big woman.... no way would i even consider trying to save her. flat out truth of the matter. I'm not a strong swimmer despite being able to swim but trying to save my MIL would only get us both killed. Common sense would dictate my actions most likely.


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## Zoeys mom

LOL my MIL is still fit and a great swimmer, but all the same if I lost her I'd have no one else to sit on the deck with and sip wine.


----------



## Shavy

Zoeys mom said:


> Grandma died of Lou Gehrig's 4 years ago- but if it were my Grandmother there would be no question. Granny would definitely be coming with me. I said in a past post my family and friends would be saved first. I even assume I'd go for the stranger first- but seriously if the stranger is half way across the bay and my dog 15ft. out common sense would probably prevail.
> 
> If it were my MIL I'd even go for her first- she's pretty cool


Hmmm, I'd have to say it's a toss up with my MIL even without a dog in the water.


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## Zoeys mom

I figure they gave us our husbands partially trained and 99% housebroken....they truly deserve it


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## selzer

Is 99% house trained, leaving the toilet seat up, AND dribbling or one or the other?


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## Konotashi

My dog. I have more faith in dogs than people. Plus I'm sure if I was drowning, any of my dogs would try to save me if they could. Who's to say if I was drowning that person would try to save me? How do I know I'd be saving a pedophile or a murderer, or a husband and father of four? I don't. But I know exactly who I'm saving when I'm saving my dog.


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## selzer

From a Christian viewpoint, you might "save" and "unsaved" person allowing him more time and possibly the opportunity to be "saved." Not knowing whether the individual was saved or not would mean you would have to go after the person because he might not be. 

Dogs on the other hand have less to worry about when they meet their maker.


----------



## DharmasMom

Shavy said:


> Yes. Thank you. There are some things (like crating versus not) that are a matter of opinion. And then there are those things that tell what kind of a person you are, clear rights and wrongs.
> 
> I was reminded of this thread today when I was on the bus on the way home from work. It was just after school gets out and many people get off of work, and in true NYC rush hour fashion, the bus was full to the capacity where you literally could not cram anymore people inside and they stopped picking up passengers. Two substantially (but not debilitatingly) overweight women in their 30's were sitting at the front of the bus, in the seats designated for the "elderly and disabled" (there's even a sign above the seats stating such). Now, an elderly asian man with a cane boarded the bus and attempted to sit in the middle seat that these two women were spilling into with their flab. He was at least in his 70's and shaky on his feet. No other seat on the bus was available. He tried to squeeze between these women and couldn't fit all the way into the seat. What did these women do? Instead of jumping up and offering him the extra room, or even trying to move over a bit to give the poor man some space to sit properly, instead they shot him dirty looks and told each other "well I AIN'T gettin' up!". That's not a difference of opinion. You're a pile of dog poo wrapped in skin. Some things just ARE a reflection on one's poor morals, lack of etiquette/manners, or lack of any common decency and basic humanity.
> 
> Now, I'm not saying the "save the dog first" people are piles of dog poo (unless you are one of the aforementioned ladies, in which case I hope you never procreate and pass on such a disgusting and repulsive attitude to your children). But I AM saying that someone who doesn't value a human life over the life of a dog - any human, over any dog - is showing that they have a seriously skewed moral compass. That's not a valid, acceptable choice, anymore than murdering people is a valid, acceptable choice, or torturing animals for fun is a valid, acceptable choice, or stealing from others is a valid, acceptable choice. It's a basic moral tenet that human life has more intrinsic value than the life of an animal. Thinking otherwise is a deviation from the morals of our society at large and an abnormality because of it.
> 
> That said, I think, as was mentioned several times, that people may ACT very differently than what they THINK when the idea is purely hypothetical. I also think that someone who opts not to put their own lives in danger in order to save another (while also not saving their dog) is not selfish - and in some cases it may be supremely selfish to do so (such as someone who is the sole provider or caregiver for their family).
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: Thanks for the laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good post.




To say that those of us that would choose our dogs first are wrong or morally skewed is your opinion. And one you are certainly entitled to have. If you would allow your dog to drown to save a complete stranger then more power to you. I admire your selflessness. But I don't feel that way. And that doesn't make me or anyone else who feels the way I do wrong.

It has been stated earlier in this thread how that stranger could be someone's mother/father, son/daughter, sister/brother, etc. Yes, that is true. Everyone is someone's somebody. But in my dog's case, she is my somebody. I am no longer married and I can't have kids. She is my family. And I made a commitment to her the day I brought her home and I have a responsibility to her. And as such she comes first.


----------



## KZoppa

DharmasMom said:


> To say that those of us that would choose our dogs first are wrong or morally skewed is your opinion. And one you are certainly entitled to have. If you would allow your dog to drown to save a complete stranger then more power to you. I admire your selflessness. But I don't feel that way. And that doesn't make me or anyone else who feels the way I do wrong.
> 
> It has been stated earlier in this thread how that stranger could be someone's mother/father, son/daughter, sister/brother, etc. Yes, that is true. Everyone is someone's somebody. But in my dog's case, she is my somebody. I am no longer married and I can't have kids. She is my family. And I made a commitment to her the day I brought her home and I have a responsibility to her. And as such she comes first.


 
thank you. i think you just said what we seemed to be having great difficulty saying. I would probably still choose my dog but without being in the situation i'll never know until i have to make that choice if ever. If its a choice between my kids, which my dogs and cats count as after my kids themselves, or a stranger, i choose my family.


----------



## LaRen616

DharmasMom said:


> To say that those of us that would choose our dogs first are wrong or morally skewed is your opinion. And one you are certainly entitled to have. If you would allow your dog to drown to save a complete stranger then more power to you. I admire your selflessness. But I don't feel that way. And that doesn't make me or anyone else who feels the way I do wrong.
> 
> It has been stated earlier in this thread how that stranger could be someone's mother/father, son/daughter, sister/brother, etc. Yes, that is true. Everyone is someone's somebody. But in my dog's case, she is my somebody. I am no longer married and I can't have kids. She is my family. And I made a commitment to her the day I brought her home and I have a responsibility to her. And as such she comes first.


 
This is exactly the way I feel.


----------



## Mrs.K

Okay, 

let's all calm down a little, shall we?

First of all, it's a situation thats probably never going to happen. 

Secondly, IF a dog can't rescue himself, why is that? Dogs are strong swimmer and if they are in a situation where they can't get out themselves than more likely we, the owners, will be right there with them and probably drowning too. 

On another note, nobody knows what he/she is going to do until they actually get in the situation. 

Those that say that they'd rescue the dog might actually go for the human and those who say human might actually go for the dog. 

It all depends on the circumstances anyway.


----------



## jakeandrenee

Can a mod close this thread? Seems like a pointless topic that just feeds controversy.


----------



## APBTLove

No need to close it. It's an interesting topic and discussion.. People just need to keep a level head about themselves. If certain posts are rude and overboard, I can see removing THEM, but not closing the discussion.


I personally have owned three dogs who could barely swim to save their lives. One that just outright sunk when he hit the water lol

My dogs are my life. And as I've stated I personally couldn't handle an adult human in full-blown panic, I can barely keep myself afloat. Another fellow on the other forum said he came very close to drowning, and the only time he calmed enough to be freed was when he gave up and accepted that he was going to die.

My mother was a lifeguard. In her training they always told them not to TOUCH the drowning people unless they HAD to, otherwise use tools like a float because panicking people tend to pull you under to get out themselves.


----------



## Jax08

selzer said:


> I think it might depend on whether it was her mother or her mother in law???


:rofl: That would make the decision much easier!


----------



## Konotashi

Some dog breeds can't swim, period. Like our Frenchie. He likes the water and goes in as far as he can, but he is physically unable to swim.


----------



## Caledon

My husband saved a friend from drowning. If this were a stranger, he would have done the same thing. If it were a stranger and our dog, the stranger would be safe. I would not want him to save my dog over a person.

I would do my best to save the person first in any way safely possible, but bottom line I would not risk my life to save either my dog or a stranger. I am not a strong swimmer and am not comfortable in water. I don't think I could save either. If another stranger was present who had the skills and I had the power to determine who he/she should save first, the person would be my choice. 

This does not mean that I do not love my dog, I do. I would not love myself if I picked her life over a person's life.


----------



## Miikkas mom

Honestly, I have no idea what I would do. I guess there are SO many variables. Is the drowning person a small child, medium sized women, a large man? If it were a large man, I don’t think I would be able to help him as we would probably both drown. 

I did LEARN something here, though. And that would be to teach my dog to swim so I don’t have to ever make that decision!!


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## Iletthedogout

jakeandrenee said:


> Can a mod close this thread? Seems like a pointless topic that just feeds controversy.


I agree that pondering this question isn't going to make me a better dog owner. This is why my initial reaction was incredulous. Just putting dogs on par with humans just doesn't fit with my values. 

And trust me I am not a "People Person."


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## Miikkas mom

I for one, hope this thread does not get closed. Do we really need that type of censorship on a dog message board? If there are individuals that cannot deal with controversy, then they don’t need to respond to the thread. Period. :rolleyes2:

The thread consists of an opinion-oriented question. There really is NO right or wrong answer. Everyone has his or hers own view on the matter. We may not like - or agree with - some of the answers but that is no reason to close the entire thread. Good lord.


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## LaRen616

Miikkas mom said:


> I for one, hope this thread does not get closed. Do we really need that type of censorship on a dog message board? If there are individuals that cannot deal with controversy, then they don’t need to respond to the thread. Period. :rolleyes2:
> 
> The thread consists of an opinion-oriented question. There really is NO right or wrong answer. Everyone has his or hers own view on the matter. We may not like - or agree with - some of the answers but that is no reason to close the entire thread. Good lord.


:thumbup:


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## DharmasMom

Miikkas mom said:


> I for one, hope this thread does not get closed. Do we really need that type of censorship on a dog message board? If there are individuals that cannot deal with controversy, then they don’t need to respond to the thread. Period. :rolleyes2:
> 
> The thread consists of an opinion-oriented question. There really is NO right or wrong answer. Everyone has his or hers own view on the matter. We may not like - or agree with - some of the answers but that is no reason to close the entire thread. Good lord.




Exactly. No one opinion is right or wrong. Every one has their own feelings and opinion on the subject and whichever side of the fence they land on--THAT IS OK. Just because someone feels one way that doesn't make them a bad person. Just because someone else feels the other way that doesn't mean they don't love their dog. 

It is a "what if" scenario about a situation that the odds of any one actually ever encountering are probably astronomical. But I do think it makes for an interesting topic.


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## APBTLove

Miikkas mom said:


> I for one, hope this thread does not get closed. Do we really need that type of censorship on a dog message board? If there are individuals that cannot deal with controversy, then they don’t need to respond to the thread. Period. :rolleyes2:
> 
> The thread consists of an opinion-oriented question. There really is NO right or wrong answer. Everyone has his or hers own view on the matter. We may not like - or agree with - some of the answers but that is no reason to close the entire thread. Good lord.


Yep. 

I did say in the original post, I think, or one after it maybe? That the stranger in question is NOT a child. I would say goodbye to any of my dogs for the life of a child - which is why I said it isn't a child! lol I don't think anyone would choose their dog over a child's life.


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## Jax08

Seriously, Folks...this is a purely hypothetical question...

What are the chances that you are out on the water when your boat sinks with your dog and a stranger in it while you are standing on shore? Or what is the chance that the stranger decides to race your dog to the kong you've just thrown into the lake?

You have a better chance of hitting the lottery...

We can have discussion questions such as this just to make you think without a brawl and without people getting into a tizzy over another answer.


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## Good_Karma

I love questions like these. After reading the first post, my gut reaction said "Save my dog!" But in reading everyone's replies ( pro and con ), I did have to look a bit deeper into my psyche. What does it say about me as a person that I would save my dog over a stranger? Is it something I need to work on?

Keep those crazy questions coming. I believe self-examination is good for us.


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## PADR1NH0

Romeo would be first... hes part of the family...


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## ILGHAUS

Hummm.... it might make interesting reading if this thread could be linked to the other time or two it was run in the past. I don't have time to read it now but wonder if the opinions, pros & cons, and debate have changed any over the years?


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## perseuslove

Being a lifeguard I would hope that I could save the two of them. Dog first and if all else fails I know human CPR so hopefully I could revive the victim if they were not breathing. We shouldn't panic in water situations only think of the more reasonable way to handle the whole situation!


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## IllinoisNative

jakeandrenee said:


> Can a mod close this thread? Seems like a pointless topic that just feeds controversy.


There is nothing inherently wrong with controversy. That's what happens when people disagree. That's what happens when people have opinions which is the purpose of this board.

I will never get the "this thread should be closed" mentality just because there is disagreement. That's par for the course on a public message board where different views can and should be expressed. If this is that upsetting to some, there is a scroll bar. Nobody needs to read anything they aren't comfortable with. IMO, people shouldn't infringe on other's rights to discuss a certain topic.



Miikkas mom said:


> I for one, hope this thread does not get closed. Do we really need that type of censorship on a dog message board? If there are individuals that cannot deal with controversy, then they don’t need to respond to the thread. Period. :rolleyes2:
> 
> The thread consists of an opinion-oriented question. There really is NO right or wrong answer. Everyone has his or hers own view on the matter. We may not like - or agree with - some of the answers but that is no reason to close the entire thread. Good lord.


This.

I happen to agree with both sides...or, rather, I understand both sides. While I would chose the human life, I love my dogs more than anything. I get the desire to save your pet/family member over a stranger. I don't think there is anything wrong with either response.

FOR ME, I'm just not sure I could live with myself if I let a person die to save my dog. I put myself in the place of a stranger. If I were drowning, would I want someone to save me or their pet. LOL!


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## selzer

I do not think this is so far fetched. There are floods and swolen rivers, and storms, and situations where the bank falls away leaving people in trouble. They do not need to be enjoying a fishing trip with their dog and a stranger to be in trouble. 

My dogs have been in water where I had to go in the icy water to save them. 

I have also been in a situation where I could have easily slid a little farther and been within a swollen river. 

A lot more people drown each year than die from dog related deaths. 

But what about fire. What if your dog was on the third floor in a crate. You come home from work to find the building on fire. You get in to rescue your dog, and you see a person unable to get themselves down a flight of stairs because of their disability. You do not know the person. 

Do you let them die so you can get your dog out??? 

It is the same story. Yes, you put the dog in the crate. The dog IS your responsibility. But do you let a human die to save your dog?

And APBTLove, why are children so much more important than adults? Adults may have chilren, and they may still have parents that love them. We might have a better chance of rescuing a child, but I do not put the life a child higher than the life of an adult. In my opinion, the two are only separated by a number of years. Maybe a child is more innocent than an adult, and maybe a child should not be held as accountable for their circumstances as an adult. 

I have given money to beggars. My sister admonished me and told me I should never give them money, they will probably use it for alcohol or drugs. No doubt she is right. But when we give of ourselves to someone else, we should not judge them. We should not be concerned if they are worthy of our help or not. If a man is drowning in a river, we cannot try him of possibly being a serial killer before deciding to help him or not. 

So if it is a homeless guy drowning, let him go. If it is an ex-con, let him die. If it is a little girl with pig tails, save her. If it is an older boy with a drug problem, let him die. What if it was a rapist or serial killer??? Is it now OUR fault for saving him if he has another victim??? How in the world would we know that that was the case.

We help people regardless to who they are, how old they are, how bad they might be, how valuable they are to society because it is the right thing to do. And for me personally, it is the right thing to do to help even a stranger before my dog, given all things equal.


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## bianca

selzer said:


> I do not think this is so far fetched. There are floods and swolen rivers, and storms, and situations where the bank falls away leaving people in trouble. They do not need to be enjoying a fishing trip with their dog and a stranger to be in trouble.
> 
> My dogs have been in water where I had to go in the icy water to save them.
> 
> I have also been in a situation where I could have easily slid a little farther and been within a swollen river.
> 
> A lot more people drown each year than die from dog related deaths.
> 
> But what about fire. What if your dog was on the third floor in a crate. You come home from work to find the building on fire. You get in to rescue your dog, and you see a person unable to get themselves down a flight of stairs because of their disability. You do not know the person.
> 
> Do you let them die so you can get your dog out???
> 
> It is the same story. Yes, you put the dog in the crate. The dog IS your responsibility. But do you let a human die to save your dog?
> 
> And APBTLove, why are children so much more important than adults? Adults may have chilren, and they may still have parents that love them. We might have a better chance of rescuing a child, but I do not put the life a child higher than the life of an adult. In my opinion, the two are only separated by a number of years. Maybe a child is more innocent than an adult, and maybe a child should not be held as accountable for their circumstances as an adult.
> 
> I have given money to beggars. My sister admonished me and told me I should never give them money, they will probably use it for alcohol or drugs. No doubt she is right. But when we give of ourselves to someone else, we should not judge them. We should not be concerned if they are worthy of our help or not. If a man is drowning in a river, we cannot try him of possibly being a serial killer before deciding to help him or not.
> 
> So if it is a homeless guy drowning, let him go. If it is an ex-con, let him die. If it is a little girl with pig tails, save her. If it is an older boy with a drug problem, let him die. What if it was a rapist or serial killer??? Is it now OUR fault for saving him if he has another victim??? How in the world would we know that that was the case.
> 
> We help people regardless to who they are, how old they are, how bad they might be, how valuable they are to society because it is the right thing to do. And for me personally, it is the right thing to do to help even a stranger before my dog, given all things equal.


:thumbup:


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## Liesje

I don't have a problem with someone saying "I love my dog, I feel my highest responsibility is to my dog, I'd save him first" but to be honest it is kind of weird to me to read people saying that most of the strangers they encounter haven't been people worth saving so they'd save the dog. This situation would be a snap decision for me based on which decision I could live with, not a judgment on whether a stranger deserves to be saved or is better off dead.


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## DharmasMom

I guess everyone has their own reason for their answer. For me personally, my answer has nothing to do with the stranger and whether or not they "deserve" to be saved. Truthfully, it wouldn't matter to me if they were a nun who ran an orphanage or serial child rapist and murderer. My first allegiance is to my dog. 
One day not to long ago when some recent personal and health issues got to be too much to bare and I was crying in my garage she sat next to me and proceeded to lick my face as if to say "Mom, don't cry. It's going to be okay." She then curled up at my feet. She saved my life that day because I was actually considering doing the unthinkable when I realized if something happened to me then her future would be very uncertain. I couldn't stand the thought that she could end up in the pound, wondering what happened to me and why I wasn't coming to get her. And then possibly getting PTS all because I was to selfish to pull myself up and go on. So I did, for her. She saved me that day and I would do no less for her. No matter who that stranger was.


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## Lorelei

The thing that truly blows my mind about this thread, is that no matter how opposed we can be to one another's answers, many of us are making our choices for exactly the same reasons! Namely, responsibility (to our dog or to our species), and empathy (My dog would do the same for me, or if it was my mom drowning, I'd want someone to rescue her!) and being able to live with ourselves afterward ( I couldn't betray my dog/fellow humans)

I think that is incredibly interesting!

I wish I could get more in depth in this... (For instance, If a big thing is selfishness, would it be selfish to save your child over a stranger? Both your dog and your child depend on you, so is it only selfish to save your dog over a stranger, but not your child?)

So interesting. Right now I am double-majoring in Psychobiology and cellular-molecular biology, and I may have to do a thesis, and I'd love to make my psychology-based thesis pertain to something like this... but how to tie it into biology?? Maybe looking at the different terms of 'morality' for our own species vs. another, human vs. dog....)

And, I keep reminding myself, what we 'philosophize' about right and wrong and what we 'do' are generally totally different and due to different reasons!


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## Matetus

reaaaally though decision
i can't live if i abandoned my dog,and i can't live if i abandoned someone,even if its a murderer or something,it doesn't deserve to die in a fire.The best answer:
give the dog to the stranger to hold it and took the stranger with the dog out or let the dog out of the crate and say to it to go out of the building and i'll save the stranger,so both good in both scenarios,but if I really need to choose,Dog


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## Kamahi

I would have to save my dog, no question about it. For all I know, the stranger could drown me... If I have no emotional ties to this person, then I'm sorry, but I have a commitment to my family, and my dogs are part of my family.


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## Lilie

.....and if on the bank a child was screaming for his mother who was drowning? Would you still save your dog instead of the child's mother?

I wonder how much an outside source would influeance our split second decision. If (for what ever reason) you were the only person who was capable of saving one of the two, but you knew that you would have witnesses to your ultimate choice. You would therefore, be held accountable to others for your decision, not just yourself. 

Hmmmm, something to ponder.....


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## LaRen616

I could only physically lift my dog, a small child or an anorexic girl.

But I would save Sin over anyone. He is my life.


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## VomBlack

Like some have said I looove questions like this, it's fascinating to see what other people consider right/wrong or good/bad.

All things considered I really don't know what i'd do.. the human race certainly hasn't burned me badly enough for me to say that no stranger is worth saving, but my dogs mean as much to me as my human family. I made the commitment to take care of them and keep them safe, but I can't imagine signing another person's death sentence just because on first sight I can't tell if they're a sociopath or a philanthropist. 

I also don't underestimate the power of adrenaline and how people react to panic. Last fall Odin and I were hiking at a local park that had a large creek that is deep enough, with high banks. He got a little too excited and he ended up slipping and falling in. Before I could even process what happened I was in the freezing water pulling him out. My brain didn't even get time to weigh the options and I was throwing myself in to help him. So if faced with one of my dogs or a stranger drowning in front of me, I may out of instinct go for my dog based on the emotional attachment I have for them. Does it make me a horrible person? I wouldn't be acting out of contempt for the drowning stranger, but sometimes it's only human to want to do whatever you can for the ones you love.


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## Caledon

People act differently in an emergency situation than they would when thinking about a question such as this.

I'm now turning it around,

I can tell you honestly that if my adult child was drowning along side someone elses dog and they were capable of safely only saving one and they let my adult child drown because they saved their dog I would not be a forgiving person (only applies to saving a dog).

Further more, I believe it is a legal responsibility that an individual offers aid to people in need. Not sure of the defination of aid.


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## Lilie

VomBlack said:


> I also don't underestimate the power of adrenaline and how people react to panic.


 
Years ago, I had just lost my #1 Aussie after 13 years. The breeder found out about it and wanted me to come get another puppy (same lineage). I wasn't ready and said thanks but no thanks. She came by the office on a friday afternoon and brought a puppy. She told me to keep it for the weekend and if I changed my mind, I could bring it back. (She wouldn't take a dime for him). 

Because it was month end, we were all at the office fairly late. A co-worker and I stepped outside so the puppy could use the potty. I worked in a warehouse/office type building and was set on acreage. As we stood there the puppy was romping around and walked right over the cover of the sewage tank....it broke (it was plastic) and the puppy fell in. 

With out thinking, I dove in after it. My coworker actually grabbed by lower legs as she feared I was going to go all the way in. I felt around, grabbed the puppy and my coworked helped haul us back up. The puppy and I were covered in filth. I was taking my shirt off as I re-entered the office. I had never in my life felt more disgusting. Obviously, we left the office and headed for home...covered in filth and half naked. 

When I walked into the house holding a new puppy, covered in poop, half naked and heading for the shower, my husband could only say "You'll have to tell me later"...The puppy and I stayed in the shower till the water ran cold......and I decided to keep him. You can only guess what we called him........


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## LaRen616

Lilie said:


> Years ago, I had just lost my #1 Aussie after 13 years. The breeder found out about it and wanted me to come get another puppy (same lineage). I wasn't ready and said thanks but no thanks. She came by the office on a friday afternoon and brought a puppy. She told me to keep it for the weekend and if I changed my mind, I could bring it back. (She wouldn't take a dime for him).
> 
> Because it was month end, we were all at the office fairly late. A co-worker and I stepped outside so the puppy could use the potty. I worked in a warehouse/office type building and was set on acreage. As we stood there the puppy was romping around and walked right over the cover of the sewage tank....it broke (it was plastic) and the puppy fell in.
> 
> With out thinking, I dove in after it. My coworker actually grabbed by lower legs as she feared I was going to go all the way in. I felt around, grabbed the puppy and my coworked helped haul us back up. The puppy and I were covered in filth. I was taking my shirt off as I re-entered the office. I had never in my life felt more disgusting. Obviously, we left the office and headed for home...covered in filth and half naked.
> 
> When I walked into the house holding a new puppy, covered in poop, half naked and heading for the shower, my husband could only say "You'll have to tell me later"...The puppy and I stayed in the shower till the water ran cold......and I decided to keep him. *You can only guess what we called him........*


Ah! That was like a cliff hanger to my favorite movie!!! What did you name him!!!!!!!!! I need to know!


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## APBTLove

selzer said:


> And APBTLove, why are children so much more important than adults? Adults may have chilren, and they may still have parents that love them. We might have a better chance of rescuing a child, but I do not put the life a child higher than the life of an adult. In my opinion, the two are only separated by a number of years. Maybe a child is more innocent than an adult, and maybe a child should not be held as accountable for their circumstances as an adult.


For me personally - a child is just more precious than an adult. They have not had a chance to live their life, the innocence factor, and in this situation I could probably handle a child.
And I do not like children lol


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## Miikkas mom

LaRen616 said:


> Ah! That was like a cliff hanger to my favorite movie!!! What did you name him!!!!!!!!! I need to know!


LOL!! I was wondering the same thing...Tank? Stinky? Poopers? Sludge? I give up.


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## LaRen616

APBTLove said:


> For me personally - a child is just more precious than an adult. They have not had a chance to live their life, the innocence factor, and in this situation I could probably handle a child.
> *And I do not like children* lol


Me neither!


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## DharmasMom

Caledon said:


> Further more, I believe it is a legal responsibility that an individual offers aid to people in need. Not sure of the defination of aid.



No there is no _legal_ responsibility. I volunteered for my local rescue squad for for many years and even then if I passed a wreck on the side of the road I was not legally bound to stop. One would have to have a "duty to act" and a lay person or a volunteer or even a professional who is off duty does not have that. 

Now granted in today litigious society I'm sure the family would sue the pants off of you but there is no legal basis for them to win. At least not in my state. Of course the person drowning would probably try to sue you as well for breaking a rib or spraining their neck dragging them to shore.

Now that isn't to say the press wouldn't make you look bad. But as long as you didn't throw the person in the water or instead of throwing them a life preserver throw them an anchor, legally you are off the hook.


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## Good_Karma

How about if you and your dog were drowning, would you want a stranger to save you or your dog?


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## APBTLove

Good_Karma said:


> How about if you and your dog were drowning, would you want a stranger to save you or your dog?


Well that's a way to turn it around! lol

Unfortunately, I say 'me'. Because my dog cannot be in the hands of anyone else. He is a temperamental mess and simply will not bond with another human... Not to mention if they got him out of the water he'd either attack or run off and never be seen again, or would be shot/caught and put down by AC.

So in my case, it's a lose lose for my dog.


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## Caledon

DharmasMom said:


> No there is no _legal_ responsibility. I volunteered for my local rescue squad for for many years and even then if I passed a wreck on the side of the road I was not legally bound to stop. One would have to have a "duty to act" and a lay person or a volunteer or even a professional who is off duty does not have that.
> 
> Now granted in today litigious society I'm sure the family would sue the pants off of you but there is no legal basis for them to win. At least not in my state. Of course the person drowning would probably try to sue you as well for breaking a rib or spraining their neck dragging them to shore.
> 
> Now that isn't to say the press wouldn't make you look bad. But as long as you didn't throw the person in the water or instead of throwing them a life preserver throw them an anchor, legally you are off the hook.


 
I'm in Canada. I'm going to confirm that because I read a news article about someone that was charged because they did not assist another person who was in need. Can't remember the details or the exact charge, but the article went on to say that individuals have a legal responsiblity to assist. Assisting can be calling 911.


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## DharmasMom

Wow. Interesting question. I say me but only because like I stated in my earlier post I don't know what would happen to my dog without me. I know I can survive without my dog. Although I would be devastated and it would take me a long time to get over her loss. OTOH I hate the thought that she could end up in a shelter, esp a kill shelter. She would be stuck in cage wondering where I am and why I left her there. She would end up being euthanized. Or what if she was adopted out by people who mistreated her? People who didn't know she likes to go for car rides even if it is just to go with you to the store. Or that she likes McDonald's cheeseburgers plain and considers this a great treat. Or that keep away is her favorite game but if she gets something she is not supposed to have if you sit on the floor and tell her to bring it she will look at you with those big brown eyes and walk slowly over, drop the object then flop over for belly rubs. And so many other little idiosyncrasies.


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## Lilie

LaRen616 said:


> Ah! That was like a cliff hanger to my favorite movie!!! What did you name him!!!!!!!!! I need to know!


His formal name was Cutter, cuz he could really work. But we always called him 'Lil Turd'. As he got older he was 'Old Turd'. For weeks hubby would look at me and say, "Hey, is that something in your hair?" Argh. 

I had to endure years of jokes because of that last second decision which I never regretted. However, you should have seem me attempting to explain it to the vet when I brought him in (I was afraid he could have caught something). And I went to my personal doctor and had to explain to her what happened (I was afraid I caught something) .


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## LaRen616

Lilie said:


> His formal name was Cutter, cuz he could really work. But we always called him 'Lil Turd'. As he got older he was 'Old Turd'. For weeks hubby would look at me and say, "Hey, is that something in your hair?" Argh.
> 
> I had to endure years of jokes because of that last second decision which I never regretted. However, you should have seem me attempting to explain it to the vet when I brought him in (I was afraid he could have caught something). And I went to my personal doctor and had to explain to her what happened (I was afraid I caught something) .


:rofl:


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## DharmasMom

Caledon said:


> I'm in Canada. I'm going to confirm that because I read a news article about someone that was charged because they did not assist another person who was in need. Can't remember the details or the exact charge, but the article went on to say that individuals have a legal responsiblity to assist. Assisting can be calling 911.



Then you guys have different laws. That isn't the way it is here. A public servant IE: police officer, EMT, nurse who is _on duty_ has a duty to act failure to do so can result in civil or even criminal liability. But if they are off duty there is no such obligation. Esp if this will put the individual in harms way. And no there is not even a legal obligation to call 911. IMHO at least no calling for help is really s*****

I was an volunteer at my local rescue squad for almost 20 years and have been a nurse for 18 years. I can count on one hand the number of accidents I have stopped mostly because I stopped carrying a first responder's kit in my car years ago. I have always called 911 if emergency personnel wasn't on scene however. And that is just because that is the right thing to do. Although 100% of the time they had already been notified. I have even called for disabled vehicles at night.

That said, I would call for help but I would still rescue my dog first.


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## DharmasMom

Lilie said:


> His formal name was Cutter, cuz he could really work. But we always called him 'Lil Turd'. As he got older he was 'Old Turd'. For weeks hubby would look at me and say, "Hey, is that something in your hair?" Argh.
> 
> I had to endure years of jokes because of that last second decision which I never regretted. However, you should have seem me attempting to explain it to the vet when I brought him in (I was afraid he could have caught something). And I went to my personal doctor and had to explain to her what happened (I was afraid I caught something) .


I would jump into a sewer for my dog. Without hesitation. She and I can always take a bath (it may be a really long bath) but I can't replace her. 

I say good for you and I admire you for doing it!


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## Lilie

DharmasMom said:


> I would jump into a sewer for my dog. Without hesitation. She and I can always take a bath (it may be a really long bath) but I can't replace her.
> 
> I say good for you and I admire you for doing it!


True, but like this thread, you never really know what you would do until the time comes. When repeating the story of my pup, people would say the could NEVER have done it.


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## Moonlight

I'll be quite honest. I'd be petrified, rooted to the spot, knowing I can't swim let alone conjure up the strength to pull dog nor human out. And I'd probably experience the worst event in my entire life watching them both drown. Here's hoping it never EVER happens in my life.


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## selzer

A four year old hasn't experienced life because it hasn't gone to school and learned to read.

A ten year old hasn't experienced life because it hasn't experience the changes of puberty.

A 13 year old hasn't lived because she hasn't experienced heart break.

A 17 year old hasn't lived because he has not had his first job.

A 21 year old hasn't lived because he has not yet been married.

A 25 year old hasn't lived because she has not held her newborn baby.

A 35 year old hasn't lived because she has not yet seen her child off on the school bus for his first day in kindergarten.

A 45 year old hasn't lived because he has yet to hold his grand child in his arms and coo at her.

A 55 year old hasn't lived because she has not seen her grandchild marry. 

A 65 year old hasn't lived because she has not yet held her great grandchild in her arms, or experienced her retirement party, or gotten a letter from the president for 50 years of marriage, or had an opportunity to see the grand canyon, or.....

I do not put the lives of children over the lives of adults because "they have not lived." Until we have experienced death, we have not lived. 

I might save a child first because he is the best candidate for survival, or because he has the least chance for survival if not helped quickly, or because adults facing death put him forward to be the one to live. But I would not consider a person's age when considering whether or not I should try to help them.


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## shannonrae

I have read every post on this thread, this is all I have to say. . .
-I am not a good swimmer.
-I am not a large person so the human would have to be smaller than me.
-My dog is 1/2 my weight.
-As an L.V.T., it is my JOB to help animals. Plus its more likely I will know what to do with an unconscious dog.
-My dog is my responsibility, if he is in the water it is my fault.


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## tonkatuff81

After 0.5 seconds of thought, my dog first.

After he's safe, Id go back for the "stranger".


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## Blitz Burgh Steeler

My DOG --No Question about it :wub:for the other guy:help:


----------



## Dawn

I would have to say...I would save my dog first, than the human.
( and I would pay $5,000 for my dogs operation but I doubt I would loan money out)
hmmmmmmm so many things to think about!


----------



## bunchoberrys

I have been around animals all my life. Got my first job on a horse farm at 11. Worked at an veterinary clinic for 10 years, worked at a humane society, and now am a groomer. Animals, especially dogs are my heart. But, in good conscience I cannot choose an animal over a human life. I couldn't live with that choice. I respect the other half of the argument. I am sure that if you asked me the same question twenty years ago, I would have said "save the dog!". But I have grown up, I guess you could say. I got married, have children, and almost losing my child made me respect human life even more than I did in my youth. It humbled me. It saddens me that there is so little respect for human life now in this day and age.


----------



## BernBaby

selzer said:


> From a Christian viewpoint, you might "save" and "unsaved" person allowing him more time and possibly the opportunity to be "saved."


OMFG.

To clarify my previous post: (Taken from Dictionary.com.)

so·ci·o·path
   /ˈsoʊ







si







əˌpæθ, ˈsoʊ







ʃi-/  Show Spelled[*soh*-see-_uh_-path, *soh*-shee-]  Show IPA 
*–noun *_Psychiatry _. a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.





selzer said:


> I dunno. When I talked to my father about it last night, he said we all had too much time on our hands.


Nice!



Syaoransbear said:


> If I was drowning with someone's dog and they saved the dog instead of me, I'd understand.


Spoken like someone who has never drowned.



Zoeys mom said:


> The bond we all share with our dogs is certainly stronger than the bond we share with a stranger so I can't say I am appalled when people say my dog first.


ZM, you're great and all, but please don't presume for all of us. I love my dog more than I love a stranger, but I am not a dog and do not feel more bonded to a dog, even to my own dogs, than to your average human being. After all, humans and I have a lot in common!  



selzer said:


> Until we have experienced death, we have not lived.


Now that is deep. Seriously.



jakeandrenee said:


> Can a mod close this thread? Seems like a pointless topic that just feeds controversy.


I was going to comment on this post, but decided that doing so would likely get me banned. :angel:


----------



## selzer

Did I notice across the board a lot more abreviations that would violate board rules lately, or have I just been reading too many posts. 

What does OMFG stand for anyway???


----------



## PupperLove

Ya'all hear someone screaming for help and see their head disappear. They pop back up, gurgle and yell for help again. You see you dog in the opposite direction and his head is popping up and the under the water. You are going to swim to the dog?!!?

Growing up loving my parents, having a husband I love very much, and experiencing the pure love of having a child, there is no price on a human life. Having my son gave me a whole new appreciation for everyone's life...everybody on this earth is somebody's baby...grown up or not. I would save the human first. It's sad that others have not gained the appreciation for human lives and I truly hope in my heart you can all feel that appreciation and love someday because we all deserve it.

I'm sure the Big Man would require some sort of explination when my number is called if I saved a dog first. Plus, can you imagine how amazing you would feel if you SAVED SOMEONE'S LIFE?!?! I would be happy forever knowing I impacted SO MANY lives.

I give my dogs hugs and kisses every day, I want what's best for them, and I love them very much. But this question to me is a no-brainer.


----------



## PupperLove

selzer said:


> Did I notice across the board a lot more abreviations that would violate board rules lately, or have I just been reading too many posts.
> 
> What does OMFG stand for anyway???


It's the same as OMG, but the F stands for a bad word that we can't say on here. I'm sure you get the point... opcorn:


----------



## Shavy

PupperLove said:


> Ya'all hear someone screaming for help and see their head disappear. They pop back up, gurgle and yell for help again. You see you dog in the opposite direction and his head is popping up and the under the water. You are going to swim to the dog?!!?
> 
> Growing up loving my parents, having a husband I love very much, and experiencing the pure love of having a child, there is no price on a human life. Having my son gave me a whole new appreciation for everyone's life...everybody on this earth is somebody's baby...grown up or not. I would save the human first. It's sad that others have not gained the appreciation for human lives and I truly hope in my heart you can all feel that appreciation and love someday because we all deserve it.
> 
> I'm sure the Big Man would require some sort of explination when my number is called if I saved a dog first. Plus, can you imagine how amazing you would feel if you SAVED SOMEONE'S LIFE?!?! I would be happy forever knowing I impacted SO MANY lives.
> 
> I give my dogs hugs and kisses every day, I want what's best for them, and I love them very much. But this question to me is a no-brainer.


Yes; I too have noticed the impact of having a child. I thought, but did not voice, that there seem to be a lot of "dog people" who do not have children, and that this child-surrogate type of attachment could be why they feel the way they do. I used to think I loved my pets "like children", until I had a child. There is NO love in the world like that you feel for the tiny human life you bring into the world (or adopt as your own). Having a child changed much of who I was and how I saw the world.





BernBaby said:


> OMFG.
> Spoken like someone who has never drowned.







bunchoberrys said:


> I have been around animals all my life. Got my first job on a horse farm at 11. Worked at an veterinary clinic for 10 years, worked at a humane society, and now am a groomer. Animals, especially dogs are my heart. But, in good conscience I cannot choose an animal over a human life. I couldn't live with that choice. I respect the other half of the argument. I am sure that if you asked me the same question twenty years ago, I would have said "save the dog!". But I have grown up, I guess you could say. I got married, have children, and almost losing my child made me respect human life even more than I did in my youth. It humbled me. It saddens me that there is so little respect for human life now in this day and age.


I could've written this post (save for a few technical details, such as working at a stable in my later teens and never, G-d forbid, having been put through such a terrifying experience as you were with your child). I so agree with everything you've said here.


----------



## selzer

There are many people I would love to sell a dog to on this thread, but few I would want to go on a cruise with.


----------



## Syaoransbear

BernBaby said:


> Spoken like someone who has never drowned.


Well of course. If one has drowned, one is dead.

I have no responsibility to the person who is drowning. It is not my fault they are drowning, and if I wouldn't have came along they would have drowned anyway. However, I have a responsibility to my dog, and it would be my fault that they were drowning. The dog wouldn't be drowning if it weren't for me.

But in all likeliness it would come to who was the easiest to save, which would be the dog unless he was farther out than the person. I'm a small person who is scared of deep water, and failed my 3rd level swimming class because I couldn't float. The most likely situation would be that I didn't save either, or we'd all drown.

However, I would save the person if they were drowning _because_ they went to save my dog. Because then their death would be my fault.


----------



## selzer

Actually, I have been all for saving the person in this thread. I am not a people person and I have no kids. 

I do have family, parents, siblings, in laws, nieces, nephews, and extended family an friends. 

Ah the twists and the turns this thread has made. 

Let's say the stranger is known to you, and the dog is unknown. Who would you all save. Would it depend on whether the person was on the Good List?

If they were both strangers, do you stand on the bank and holler help and point?

It it was only some stranger dog out there struggling for shore, would you go out and try to help it?


----------



## PupperLove

Shavy said:


> Yes; I too have noticed the impact of having a child. I thought, but did not voice,* that there seem to be a lot of "dog people" who do not have children, and that this child-surrogate type of attachment could be why they feel the way they do.* I used to think I loved my pets "like children", until I had a child. There is NO love in the world like that you feel for the tiny human life you bring into the world (or adopt as your own). Having a child changed much of who I was and how I saw the world.


That is true. Maybe I should not have been so blunt since I'm sure for alot of people, that's how it is. Don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings  . No two lives are the same and nobody really knows the attachment that one has for another, dog or human. But it's scary to think that if my husband was drowning, or another family member, several people would save their dog first if it was somehow also out there!

Having a child changed me too. People I thought I HATED, I realized they were someone's child, and they were LOVED, and that changed my outlook on them. Never thought that was possible...


----------



## Dennq

As I value human life more than anything I would help the stranger as he may have children, a wife, parents ect.

Saving my dog would be a selfish act. 

I know my dogs would give their lives for me!


----------



## Chicagocanine

I don't know what I'd do if actually faced with that (probably stand on the bank and yell for help, since I'm not a good swimmer myself) but dogs tend to be much stronger swimmers (mine definitely are) than most people so the stranger is probably is more immediate danger and so I might go for them first due to that reason.
If my dog had any potential problems with swimming, they would either be wearing a life vest or would not be anywhere near the water.


----------



## Ruthie

I think what the difference boils down to is where we think that value of life comes from. 

Some feel that the value of the life is based on their own feelings toward said being. I love it, therefore it has value. It is a self centric viewpoint.

The other side believes that human life itself has intrinsic value higher than animal regardless of what relationship they have to either. It is an altruistic viewpoint.

I subscribe to the later. As a Christian who looks to the Bible as the authority for morality, I can have no other viewpoint. A human life has the ultimate value because of the price paid for it. I don't think that this concept is unique to Christian philosophy or world view, but I that is the one with which I am most familiar.


----------



## Syaoransbear

Ruthie said:


> A human life has the ultimate value because of the price paid for it.


What price is that?


----------



## selzer

I think she is referring to Jesus dying on the cross to pay for all the sins of humankind. 

Animals are not under this law as they from a Christian viewpoint were not given free-choice and are driven by instinct. Therefore, they are not sinful, and did not need a blood sacrifice. Whether dogs have a life after death is a debate I am not going to try to go into, certainly Christians do not all agree on that.


----------



## Whiteshepherds

This is a really interesting discussion...kind of makes me wish I knew how to swim.


----------



## selzer

Don't let any of your dog owner acquaintences lure you out on a boat.


----------



## Konotashi

Let's just hope that the dog involved is a Newfie. Problem solved, seeing as how they're bred to save people from water.


----------



## Shavy

Whiteshepherds said:


> This is a really interesting discussion...kind of makes me wish I knew how to swim.


Ha!

Makes me wonder if my longing to have "dog people friends" is really a bright idea after all...


----------



## Whiteshepherds

Shavy said:


> Ha!
> Makes me wonder if my longing to have "dog people friends" is really a bright idea after all...


Just be sure that when you go out with them you bring two lifevests. One for you and one for your dog.


----------



## Good_Karma

Ruthie said:


> The other side believes that human life itself has intrinsic value higher than animal regardless of what relationship they have to either. It is an altruistic viewpoint.


True altruism does not exist. Any "altruistic" act can be boiled down to being an act to preserve a set of genes.

Save the human, perpetuate the species. We live in an interdependent society, thus saving the stranger helps ensure your own survival.

Unless you both drown. Natural selection at work.


----------



## shannonrae

O.k., I lied I have something else to say. Please keep in mind that if you "rescue" a human and something goes wrong (they stub their toe on a rock, you poke them in the eye trying to rescue, etc.) they CAN sue you! I feel many people would because they are out to get what they can. This statement may disappoint and appall some. I was not born this way, life experiences have made me this way. I do not believe ALL people are bad. . . but I feel helping the human could come back to bite me in the rear. But, if I saved the dog I would still have my best friend/child/guardian. Being a single woman living by myself in the wild woods of Maine that's important! Birbo is all I've got! 
It may be selfish, but many people have made statements regarding how good they would feel if they saved the human. My point is people are selfish, people help others because it benefits them in some way (something learned in college psych class, trust me I tried to find and example of a completely unselfish act unsuccessfully). In this case it would make the person saver feel good, whether it be the smiles and "thank yous" from the victims family or the article in the local paper. The dog saver feels good because they have their dog. Every person here is entitled to their own opinion, nobody is wrong or deserves to be made to feel bad about saving person or dog.


----------



## bianca

Shavy said:


> Yes; I too have noticed the impact of having a child. I thought, but did not voice, that there seem to be a lot of "dog people" who do not have children, and that this child-surrogate type of attachment could be why they feel the way they do. I used to think I loved my pets "like children", until I had a child. There is NO love in the world like that you feel for the tiny human life you bring into the world (or adopt as your own). Having a child changed much of who I was and how I saw the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could've written this post (save for a few technical details, such as working at a stable in my later teens and never, G-d forbid, having been put through such a terrifying experience as you were with your child). I so agree with everything you've said here.


I am 35, have no children and love my dog more than anything but I said earlier and still do that I would try and save the person first. I am not religious so do not have any beliefs to guide me in that sense, but it is just how I feel.


----------



## bianca

selzer said:


> Actually, I have been all for saving the person in this thread. I am not a people person and I have no kids.
> 
> I do have family, parents, siblings, in laws, nieces, nephews, and extended family an friends.
> 
> Ah the twists and the turns this thread has made.
> 
> Let's say the stranger is known to you, and the dog is unknown. Who would you all save. Would it depend on whether the person was on the Good List?
> 
> If they were both strangers, do you stand on the bank and holler help and point?
> 
> It it was only some stranger dog out there struggling for shore, would you go out and try to help it?


I would go for the person first. If I saw a dog (no human drowning) I would definitely go out and try to save it. And I would hope like anything, that if for some reason it was my dog (not that she can ever escape) that somebody would do the same for her.


----------



## BernBaby

selzer said:


> What does OMFG stand for anyway???


Oh, My French Girlfriend.

:smirk:


----------



## IllinoisNative

shannonrae said:


> It may be selfish, but many people have made statements regarding how good they would feel if they saved the human.


Not good...but couldn't live with myself if I didn't save the person. There is a difference. I wouldn't feel good about it since my dog would be dead. But I couldn't live with myself letting a human die. I don't think that is the same thing at all.



> My point is people are selfish, people help others because it benefits them in some way (something learned in college psych class, trust me I tried to find and example of a completely unselfish act unsuccessfully). In this case it would make the person saver feel good, whether it be the smiles and "thank yous" from the victims family or the article in the local paper.


Feeling good about it doesn't mean it isn't unselfish especially if I'm not doing what is in my best interest (which would be saving my dog). If I'm letting my dog die (whom I love), to save a stranger, darn skippy it's unselfish because I don't care a hoot about the stranger. And I sure as heck wouldn't feel good about saving them at my dog's expense...but I would still do it.

But feel good about it? I don't think so. I would be devastated.


----------



## BernBaby

> My point is people are selfish, people help others because it benefits them in some way (something learned in college psych class, trust me I tried to find and example of a completely unselfish act unsuccessfully). In this case it would make the person saver feel good, whether it be the smiles and "thank yous" from the victims family or the article in the local paper.


Umm, okay. You're saying that someone who goes into a fairly deep body of water to pull a panicked, thrashing stranger - not friend or loved one, but _stranger _- out of said water, an activity which could reasonably result in injury to or death of the rescuer, is only doing it because of the praise and thanks that person will get later? Who the $#!! thinks like that?!? :crazy:


----------



## PaddyD

German Shepherds are usually pretty strong swimmers, maybe you can get yours to save the stranger.


----------



## APBTLove

PaddyD said:


> German Shepherds are usually pretty strong swimmers, maybe you can get yours to save the stranger.


You've never seen my boy floundering like a toddler :crazy: He just SUCKS when it comes to water... My poor special pup.


Selz, I think you asked it.. If it were a human I know/have a bond with? And a dog I didn't. There is no choice - I would have to try for the human, but I would need some kind of tool (rope/float) because I cannot handle a person who is in full-blown panic in the water. I am a very weak swimmer. 

If I happened to spot a dog I didn't know drowning(no human involved), I would certainly do my best to save it.

I guess I think differently than a lot because I am not making decisions based on religion at this time.. 

I do see human life in general as higher than a dog's. I have killed one of my dogs before to keep people safe.

So I do believe my decision, or what I've said I'd do in that situation, boils down to my physical abilities and selfishness. To me, no stranger is more important than my family members.


----------



## Kris10

The drowning person or dog that is NOT saved will not be concerned with the outcome of the decision (for obvious reasons). Those who would be concerned with the outcome would be: you (if your dog lives or dies) or the person's mother, father, daughter, son, etc... So look at the question from that perspective. Would you understand and forgive someone else if they allowed your loved one to die and chose to save their dog instead?


----------



## Hunther's Dad

shannonrae said:


> O.k., I lied I have something else to say. Please keep in mind that if you "rescue" a human and something goes wrong (they stub their toe on a rock, you poke them in the eye trying to rescue, etc.) they CAN sue you! I feel many people would because they are out to get what they can. This statement may disappoint and appall some. I was not born this way, life experiences have made me this way. I do not believe ALL people are bad. . . but I feel helping the human could come back to bite me in the rear. But, if I saved the dog I would still have my best friend/child/guardian. Being a single woman living by myself in the wild woods of Maine that's important! Birbo is all I've got!
> It may be selfish, but many people have made statements regarding how good they would feel if they saved the human. My point is people are selfish, people help others because it benefits them in some way (something learned in college psych class, trust me *I tried to find and example of a completely unselfish act unsuccessfully*). In this case it would make the person saver feel good, whether it be the smiles and "thank yous" from the victims family or the article in the local paper. The dog saver feels good because they have their dog. Every person here is entitled to their own opinion, nobody is wrong or deserves to be made to feel bad about saving person or dog.


The soldier who falls on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, and is killed for it, gains nothing and loses everything. Of course, he could have just picked it up and thrown it back, so I'm not sure what the motivation is there. But I agree with your point. Some people who act out of true altruism soon find themselves getting taken advantage of by those who don't.

Back on topic - I would save the human, then go back for my dog. But that human had better remember to say "Thank you," or he might need rescuing again. Just kidding...sorta. Like shannonrae, I am a product of my experiences.


----------



## Good_Karma

Hunther's Dad said:


> The soldier who falls on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, and is killed for it, gains nothing and loses everything. Of course, he could have just picked it up and thrown it back, so I'm not sure what the motivation is there. But I agree with your point. Some people who act out of true altruism soon find themselves getting taken advantage of by those who don't.


The soldier jumped on the grenade to save his fellow soldiers, who therefore remain alive and able to fight to defend the dead soldier's family and home. 

If you think long enough you can get around just about any argument for true altruism.

But you're right, that's kind of off-topic.


----------



## Syaoransbear

Actually now that I think about it, if I saved my dog first and then went to save the person I think my dog would just follow me back into the water and drown again lol.

So if a person has no family and no friends and no one to mourn them, is their life worth less than someone who has many family and friends? Why is it that a human life is automatically more valuable than any other life?


----------



## Lilie

selzer said:


> There are many people I would love to sell a dog to on this thread, but few I would want to go on a cruise with.


Sell me a pup and then we can go on a cruise and celebrate! But I'd have to take the new pup with me!


----------



## IllinoisNative

Syaoransbear said:


> Why is it that a human life is automatically more valuable than any other life?


Well, if that is the case and all life is equal, why do we eat animals and not other people? I don't see many humans on menus...at least in my neck of the woods...lol. Why is it okay to eat a cow? Or a pig? Don't we inherently place people above animals? We own dogs. They don't own us. If you're the one drowning, do you want someone to chose their dog over you?

I love my dogs. In fact, I prefer them to most people. But that doesn't change the fact that I would save the person first. And I'm not particularly religious so that has no bearing on my decision.

But I would hope someone would save my sister/mother/brother/grandmother over their dog. I don't just apply this decision to myself. I look at from the point of the stranger's family...and the fact that *I* may be that stranger.


----------



## DogGone

This is one of those things that might be hard to know for sure how you would react until you’re in the actual situation.


In combat there have been brave men that have froze and/or became fearful when they were first faced with true danger. The opposite is also sometimes true; sometimes there are timid poor performers that will suddenly become brave smart and efficient heroes when put under the pressure of dangerous combat. I like the story of the “red badge of carriage”; I think it shows that were not always predictable but sometimes we can learn from our mistakes and shortcomings.


Normally I would put humans above a dog; but my reaction would probably still depend on the circumstances and the person.


----------



## Ruthie

Good_Karma said:


> True altruism does not exist. Any "altruistic" act can be boiled down to being an act to preserve a set of genes.
> 
> Save the human, perpetuate the species. We live in an interdependent society, thus saving the stranger helps ensure your own survival.
> 
> Unless you both drown. Natural selection at work.


 
I disagree. There is never a transaction that is completely altruistic, but motives certainly can be.


----------



## shannonrae

IllinoisNative said:


> Not good...but couldn't live with myself if I didn't save the person. There is a difference. I wouldn't feel good about it since my dog would be dead. But I couldn't live with myself letting a human die. I don't think that is the same thing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling good about it doesn't mean it isn't unselfish especially if I'm not doing what is in my best interest (which would be saving my dog). If I'm letting my dog die (whom I love), to save a stranger, darn skippy it's unselfish because I don't care a hoot about the stranger. And I sure as heck wouldn't feel good about saving them at my dog's expense...but I would still do it.
> 
> But feel good about it? I don't think so. I would be devastated.


 Valid points indeed. I would think that feeling satisfied with your decision would be a reward in itself. . . a "reward" is something that makes you feel good. You choose to let the person live because you don't want to live with yourself if you let the person die, benefiting you. 

The point that *I* was trying to make (maybe not effectively) was that everybody has reasons for making the decision they make. Nobody's answer is "wrong", and we might be a little more considerate of others when making posts.  Sorry if I offended anyone!


----------



## shannonrae

BernBaby said:


> Umm, okay. You're saying that someone who goes into a fairly deep body of water to pull a panicked, thrashing stranger - not friend or loved one, but _stranger _- out of said water, an activity which could reasonably result in injury to or death of the rescuer, is only doing it because of the praise and thanks that person will get later? Who the $#!! thinks like that?!? :crazy:





That is NOT what I was trying to say at all. That was just an example, saving the people would evoke good feelings or some. While, saving the dog evokes good feelings for others. By "good" I mean "better than the alternative". 
And I am glad that at least few have gotten the point I was trying to make. I'm new to this forum business and not sure of proper "manners" (and sometimes lack people skills in general), Please be patient with me.


----------



## selzer

shannonrae said:


> O.k., I lied I have something else to say. Please keep in mind that if you "rescue" a human and something goes wrong (they stub their toe on a rock, you poke them in the eye trying to rescue, etc.) they CAN sue you! I feel many people would because they are out to get what they can. This statement may disappoint and appall some. I was not born this way, life experiences have made me this way. I do not believe ALL people are bad. . . but I feel helping the human could come back to bite me in the rear. But, if I saved the dog I would still have my best friend/child/guardian. Being a single woman living by myself in the wild woods of Maine that's important! Birbo is all I've got!
> It may be selfish, but many people have made statements regarding how good they would feel if they saved the human. My point is people are selfish, people help others because it benefits them in some way (something learned in college psych class, trust me I tried to find and example of a completely unselfish act unsuccessfully). In this case it would make the person saver feel good, whether it be the smiles and "thank yous" from the victims family or the article in the local paper. The dog saver feels good because they have their dog. Every person here is entitled to their own opinion, nobody is wrong or deserves to be made to feel bad about saving person or dog.


No, they cannot. There is something called the Good Semaritan law. You can help someone to a certain point and not be subject to lawsuit. For example, if you broke some ribls doing CPR, then you are ok.

However, if you try to do something you are completely unqualified for, like a trache, then you could be sued. Putting a hole in someone's windpipe on purpose is a far cry from trying to drag someone out of the drink. 

I have had a college phych class or two in my time. I can only say that not EVERYTHING they said was a load of tosh. 

Jumping in to a risky situation to save a fellow human from death has absolutely nothing to do with someone saying thank you. For me, and it has happened a few times -- not that I was in serious danger, but helping people that needed it -- I just did it. I was there, I saw a serious issue and felt I could help, and just did. I could have walked on by while an elderly lady sunk unconscious onto the snowy ground while the other old lady could not possibly keep her from falling. I did not think, boy are these people going to thank me when this is over. It is not even a consideration.

You do not even think, if this was my mother or grandmother, I would hope someone does for her what I am doing. No. You see what is needed and go to it without any thoughts of preserving the species or rewards in the after life. 

Afterwards, you may feel glad, glad that you were in a position to help someone, that you were there and had what it was they needed at the time. Who cares who they are or what they could do for you. It DOES feel good to know that you made a difference in someone's life today. It is not WHY you did it, but it might be an out come of it.


----------



## shannonrae

selzer said:


> No, they cannot. There is something called the Good Semaritan law. You can help someone to a certain point and not be subject to lawsuit. For example, if you broke some ribls doing CPR, then you are ok.


If you are a terrible swimmer doesn't that alone make you unqualified to go in to save anyone? Correct me if I am wrong but don't lifeguards need training and certification too? I think CPR is near "general knowledge" in this day and age, but saving a drowning person may not be (I am sure it requires some kind of skill/knowledge). There has got to be a lawyer somewhere that could twist that around. McDonalds can get sued for selling "HOT" coffee, people/businesses get sued for ridiculous reasons all the time. 

Again, the "thank yous" were not the point I was trying to make. . .


----------



## Good_Karma

Ruthie said:


> I disagree. There is never a transaction that is completely altruistic, but motives certainly can be.


I think we're saying the same thing. Motives can certainly be altruistic, I mean who really is going to stand on the edge of the water contemplating which choice would most benefit his DNA? You're jumping in that water in an instant, regardless of who you're going after.

But I think we're ultimately influenced by that reptile part of our brain we that pretend doesn't exist.


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## Dainerra

one thing to be aware of - not all states have "Good Samaritan" laws. In fact, I would guess that it is at best 50/50.


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## APBTLove

Now, I would save most anyone in need of it... But there are definitely some I would not risk myself for at all.. Sorry, but I can honestly say I know of a few people I'd wave at from the shore. 

But no, the thought of wanting a reward or thank you for saving someone never entered my mind. I think I'd go for my dog, my family, because I know them best, we're bonded. And that is selfish.


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## IllinoisNative

shannonrae said:


> Valid points indeed. I would think that feeling satisfied with your decision would be a reward in itself. . . a "reward" is something that makes you feel good. You choose to let the person live because you don't want to live with yourself if you let the person die, benefiting you.


Yeah, but I'm not doing it to feel good. I may feel good later, but that isn't why I would save them. My motive isn't to feel good about my decision. It's based on what I think is right. And I'm not sure I'd feel too good about it because my dog would be dead.

It's like brussel sprouts. I eat them because I know they are good for me. But I sure as heck don't feel good about it or enjoy it. It's something I do because I know it's the right thing to do.



> The point that *I* was trying to make (maybe not effectively) was that everybody has reasons for making the decision they make. Nobody's answer is "wrong",


I agree that everyone has their own reasons. My only quibble is that I would be saving the person for some sort of reward...meaning that is what my motivation would be. My motivation isn't based on feeling good about doing it. I would feel good saving my dog...lol. My decision is based on what I think is right and that is saving the human.

P.S. - you didn't offend me. I find this conversation fascinating.


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## Dainerra

It doesn't have to be a "reward" as avoiding a negative that would make it un-alturistic. IE you couldn't live with yourself if you didn't try to save someone. Why, though??


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## IllinoisNative

Dainerra said:


> It doesn't have to be a "reward" as avoiding a negative that would make it un-alturistic. IE you couldn't live with yourself if you didn't try to save someone. Why, though??


Because I place people ahead of animals. We eat animals. We don't eat people. (Keep in mind I was a vegetarian, I love my dogs more than most people, I volunteer at an animal shelter, am an animal rights activist - won't watch/support dolphin shows after watching _The Cove, _won't buy products that test on animals, don't wear fur, won't buy leather, don't hunt).

I would place my children above my dogs. Why? I mean, if humans and dogs were equal, why pick the child? If they are techinically both family and all...

In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to chose. Heck, in reality, I most likely won't have to chose...lol...thank God. But if push comes to shove and I could only chose ONE, I would chose the human. But it would break my heart to let my dog die. And I'm not sure I would get over it.

My heart would want to save my dog.


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## selzer

Good Samaritan law or not, lifeguard training or not, if you see someone out there floundering in the water and do nothing, and no one else is there to help, that person WILL die. If you try to help him, he might live, or he might die, or you both might die. 

While I sit comfortably miles away from a body of water, I have to say that I would have to at least try. **** the torpedos! I would take my chances in court if someone were to sue me for trying to help. I would rather try to help and fail, than to stand back and KNOW I did nothing.


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## ahazra

IllinoisNative said:


> In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to chose. Heck, in reality, I most likely won't have to chose...lol...thank God. But if push comes to shove and I could only chose ONE, I would chose the human. But it would break my heart to let my dog die. And I'm not sure I would get over it.
> 
> My heart would want to save my dog.


I couldn't agree more. I would do the same thing.


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## mssandslinger

perseuslove said:


> Being a lifeguard I would hope that I could save the two of them. Dog first and if all else fails I know human CPR so hopefully I could revive the victim if they were not breathing. We shouldn't panic in water situations only think of the more reasonable way to handle the whole situation!



i would do the same! go back for the person at least but my pups come first! CPR would be easier on a human then a dog, i would imagine anyways, i have never personally done it to either.


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## GregK

Neither. I can't swim.


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## PaddyD

What a sorry lot we humans are.


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## novarobin

I think some people miss the point (or are just trying to avoid answering it ), it is assuming that you have the ability to save the person or the dog. If you can't swim, pretend you can, it is hypothetical. LOL. 

The answers to this question (I have seen it before) never fail to astound me. 

In my job, I see the worst of people. I come into contact with literally the worst of the human species. Sometimes, its gets to the point I wonder if there ARE normal people, if only my small circle of friends and family are the exception and not the rule. But I still feel that there are only a few people who genuinely don't deserve to live. 

I love my dogs, I do. They have a huge impact on my life. But if they were to die, it would affect my DH and I only. 
When a human dies, it affects so many more people. This person is drowning is someone's loved one, a father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, best friend, whatever to someone. Losing a child or a parent is something one never gets over, losing one is such a tragic way would be worse. 
Maybe its because I deal with death in my job as well, I see the impact that it has on people. 

I have a friend who lost her fiance to drowning this summer. I cannot even begin to compare her loss to the loss of my dogs, no matter how tragic. 
They had a life, they had a house. She planned to marry this man, to have children with him. He was her best friend, and now he is gone. How does a bond with a dog compare to that?
That is aside from the dozen or so other people I know who were directly affected by his death. 



I didn't want to hijack the thread, but for those who chose their dog, what would your reaction be if someone chose to save their dog over your loved one? Can you honestly say that you could accept that?



selzer said:


> There are many people I would love to sell a dog to on this thread, but few I would want to go on a cruise with.


LOL. Hilarious. But I just wanted to say I agreed with all of your posts.


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## Panda

I would save the person. I couldn't live with myself if that person died and I could have changed that. What about their family, their wife or husband or their children. I also know my dog knows how to swim so he would be able to at least stay afoat until I got back.

I don't see why I couldn't do both at the same time though.  In life rescue classes we did at school we were taught to be able to savet wo drowning people at a time if absolutely neccesary.


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## codmaster

Panda said:


> I would save the person. I couldn't live with myself if that person died and I could have changed that. What about their family, their wife or husband or their children. I also know my dog knows how to swim so he would be able to at least stay afoat until I got back.
> 
> I don't see why I couldn't do both at the same time though.  In life rescue classes we did at school we were taught to be able to savet wo drowning people at a time if absolutely neccesary.


 
Begs the question to say you would save both at once - still have to pick - "Who do you go to first?"


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## Sunstreaked

Read through this entire thread - some really interesting thoughts and some great writers here!

I, too, have loved and do love my dogs. 

But, without hesitation I would save the life of a person over a dog. 

I can't say what I would do to the person who saved their dog over someone in my family - but I would probably spend the rest of my life in jail.


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## Shadow's mum

I love my dogs they are like my family, however I would save the stranger first. I am the mother of two children, one being an adult. I would like to think that most people would save the person first. All strangers are someones child it makes no difference if they are younger or older. Who's to say that stranger wasn't in the water trying to save your dog because you were irresponsible or in fact that your dog wasn't in the water trying to save the human. As much as I love my dogs and it would haunt me for ever to let one go, as a fellow human I think there is an unspoken responsibility to keep one another safe. The question alone makes me sick even thinking about the decision, but it is a worry that so many have left a person to drown to save their dog. I would not be a very forgiving mother if that were my adult child that was left to drown so that you could save your dog.


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## Deuce

My dog...people suck


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## Xeph

My dog. Needs no thought.



> The question alone makes me sick even thinking about the decision, but it is a worry that so many have left a person to drown to save their dog.


Why? Why wouldn't I save something that I've nurtured, loved, and bonded with over somebody I have no connection to?


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## CaseysGSD

Shadow's mum said:


> I love my dogs they are like my family, however I would save the stranger first. I am the mother of two children, one being an adult. I would like to think that most people would save the person first. All strangers are someones child it makes no difference if they are younger or older. Who's to say that stranger wasn't in the water trying to save your dog because you were irresponsible or in fact that your dog wasn't in the water trying to save the human. As much as I love my dogs and it would haunt me for ever to let one go, as a fellow human I think there is an unspoken responsibility to keep one another safe. The question alone makes me sick even thinking about the decision, but it is a worry that so many have left a person to drown to save their dog. I would not be a very forgiving mother if that were my adult child that was left to drown so that you could save your dog.


Well said, Personally I don't like many people (sounds harsh but that's the way is) I can't stand drama and avoid it or people riddled with it at all costs. That being said, if I let my dog drown I would feel bad about it for the rest of my life but if I let a person drown I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH MYSELF! Here's to hoping none of us EVER have to make that call!


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## Montana Scout

i would go for my dog... humans know how to hold their breath, and if a full grown adult don't know how to swim then i don't know what to tell them.. plus depending on the situation (lets say someone in the middle of a lake) im not going to go swimming way the **** out there because someones going to have to save 2 people... now if i had a boat then i would save my dog and then help the person.
last fall we had a sheriff who drown in a culvert saving his dog, from what i could gather his feet sunk into the silt and couldn't get out... or maybe it was a drain that he got stuck in.. dog was fine


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## Panda

codmaster said:


> Begs the question to say you would save both at once - still have to pick - "Who do you go to first?"


I said I would save the human first.


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## adamdude04

Stranger.


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## adamdude04

Montana Scout said:


> i would go for my dog... humans know how to hold their breath, and if a full grown adult don't know how to swim then i don't know what to tell them.. plus depending on the situation (lets say someone in the middle of a lake) im not going to go swimming way the **** out there because someones going to have to save 2 people... now if i had a boat then i would save my dog and then help the person.
> last fall we had a sheriff who drown in a culvert saving his dog, from what i could gather his feet sunk into the silt and couldn't get out... or maybe it was a drain that he got stuck in.. dog was fine


That is an ignorant way to look at things..

But I guess I must be the only one who doesn't know how to swim because I have never really been in water. But according to you I'm all right


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## Syaoransbear

Is the life of a human automatically and without question worth more than the life of a dog?

What if your dog had saved _your_ life before and was drowning with a stranger, and that stranger was a known serial killer. Would you save the serial killer, because just for being a human, their life has more value? Or, in that case, would your dog have more value?


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## JessWelsch

My Dog. 

My dogs are my children. My dogs dont judge me, or give me nasty looks, they dont over look me because they are in too big of a hurry to glance down. 

Im not saying all strangers are like that but when tallied up my dogs have been there far more for me, in more ways, no questions asked, then all the strangers put together. I would risk my life for my dogs; they mean that much to me. 

If I had the ability to go back in to the water, I would try to save the other person. 

It might make me sound like a bad person but I am being honest.


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## PDXDeutschhund

I didn't want to sift through 22 pages, so I'm not sure if someone already offered this prospective...

I'm a trained lifeguard. I can tell you right now that saving another human, especially if they are an "active drowner" can be very hazardous to you. If you do not have the proper training or equipment, you might kill yourself in the process, and the first thing we learn in LG training is that YOU are the most important person to save.

With that said, I'm not even sure how I would go about saving my dog from drowning if they were in a deep water environment. We are taught to approach from behind and put them in a full nelson with our flotation device between them and us. With a dog I'm not even sure how you would do that.

Would I save my dog or a person? I would probably save the person because I know what to expect in that situation. Once I have the person in my grip and they are no longer drowning, I can hopefully calm them down so they aren't fighting me. A dog might not calm so easily. The objective is to stay alive while making the save.


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## APBTLove

PDX, yep, it was brought up before... even trained people like yourself can struggle to save an adult human in full-blown panic.. I am not a strong enough swimmer to gain control over an adult who is panicked and then swim myself and them to safety. 

I HAVE had to handle dogs in the water before, though. My bulldog and shepherd got in a fight out in the water once and were trying to drown each other. I had to go out and get them BOTH and separate them in the water, then bring them both back. I've had to get my old, elderly shepherd once before, she swam way too far out and started going under... With a dog I was just able to scruff her and hold her head up out to my side, because she WAS trying to climbs on me to get out of the water.


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## LaRen616

JessWelsch said:


> My Dog.
> 
> My dogs are my children. My dogs dont judge me, or give me nasty looks, they dont over look me because they are in too big of a hurry to glance down.
> 
> Im not saying all strangers are like that but when tallied up my dogs have been there far more for me, in more ways, no questions asked, then all the strangers put together. I would risk my life for my dogs; they mean that much to me.
> 
> If I had the ability to go back in to the water, I would try to save the other person.
> 
> It might make me sound like a bad person but I am being honest.


I feel the exact same way. My dog first.

I dont know if I would be able to save a person, I can do a mean Doggie Paddle and that's about it.


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## Harleys Momma

Well right off Id say my dog. As others mentioned theres no way I could save a drowning adult. Id have a hard enough time with my 63lb dog (I weigh 100lbs on a good day lol). I can only imagine a paniced human trying to use me as a floataion device, Id be the one drowining.

But then when I put some thought into it (Im one to over think things, sorry) I guess it would really depend on who the strager is. Is it a parent with kids nearby? Is it someone my size who I have a chance to help without drowning myself? Is there anyone bigger than me to help with the stranger so I can go after my dog? If I think I can save the person (they are closer to land/safty)I would think I would at least try until I got someone to help so I could go after my dog. So many things cross my mind making a simple decision isnt easy for me haha


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## novarobin

PDXDeutschhund said:


> I didn't want to sift through 22 pages, so I'm not sure if someone already offered this prospective...


Then you missed my answer 

I had mentioned that the point of the question really doesn't have anything to do with whether it is feasible or if you can. It is a hypothetical situation where you have to choose one or the other. Many people would not be able to save either in real life, but it is assumed that we have the ability to save either one.


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## Montana Scout

adamdude04 said:


> That is an ignorant way to look at things..
> 
> But I guess I must be the only one who doesn't know how to swim because I have never really been in water. But according to you I'm all right


there were 3 teenagers that drown (i think it was in Missouri) and one by-stander that could only watch as their kid and friends drown because not one of the 4 could swim... and it was a small but deep pond... sorry but i believe everyone should at least learn how to doggy paddle


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## Xeph

Something I don't understand...how could somebody NOT know how to swim? It doesn't seem like such a hard concept?


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## Montana Scout

Xeph said:


> Something I don't understand...how could somebody NOT know how to swim? It doesn't seem like such a hard concept?


thats exactly what im thinking... even if you don't occasionally swim, at least take a quick lesson or two for the basics, even my 3yo knows how to keep her head above water


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## codmaster

Not everyone is privileged enough to have access to a place for swimming or the opportunity to do so.


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## roxy84

i wonder if it would change anyones response if your dog had previously saved your life. could you live with yourself letting the one who had saved your life die?


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## Sunstreaked

I'm wondering what the response is if there is a witness - who cannot swim and also doesn't know stranger in water - who is watching you save either your dog or the stranger. 

1. What do you do then? 

2. How do you feel after the video of whomever you don't save is viraled on youtube?

3. What do you say to the family of the human you let drown - if that is your choice - when they confront you afterwards?


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## Montana Scout

Montana Scout said:


> there were 3 teenagers that drown (i think it was in Missouri) and one by-stander that could only watch as their kid and friends drown because not one of the 4 could swim... and it was a small but deep pond... sorry but i believe everyone should at least learn how to doggy paddle


sorry i was semi wrong in this post, i found this online...

Six Louisiana teens drown in Red River - USATODAY.com


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## DharmasMom

Sunstreaked said:


> I'm wondering what the response is if there is a witness - who cannot swim and also doesn't know stranger in water - who is watching you save either your dog or the stranger.
> 
> 1. What do you do then?
> 
> 2. How do you feel after the video of whomever you don't save is viraled on youtube?
> 
> 3. What do you say to the family of the human you let drown - if that is your choice - when they confront you afterwards?



I tell them I am really sorry about their family member but that my dog IS my family and as such she is my responsibility.


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## Xeph

> 3. What do you say to the family of the human you let drown - if that is your choice - when they confront you afterwards?


Why respond to them at all? They certainly wouldn't like what I had to say.


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## selzer

If the dog saved my life first, weeks ago, years ago, whatever, and now it is drowning and a stranger is drowning, and I may be able to save one or the other, and the stranger might be a serial killer? 

I still have to go with the stranger. 

It does not MEAN that I do not love the dog. It means that I put a higher value on human life.


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## DharmasMom

And I will be honest about something else. I wouldn't risk my life that way for a stranger. I would call for help, shout for a lifeguard, or throw them a life preserver if I was in reach. But I wouldn't risk my life by going in after someone I don't know. Sorry, just wouldn't. 

My dog OTOH, I would risk my life for. She saved my life a couple of months ago. I got fired from my job and that first week I was SOOOO depressed I seriously considered suicide. Seriously considered it, like made a plan and everything. However, when I was crying uncontrollably in the garage one day, Dharma licked my face and then buried her head in my lap. I realized I could never leave her. Who would take care of her?? Would she end up in a kill shelter, scared and alone? How long would she be with my body, wondering why I smelled different and wouldn't get up to play or feed her? I held on and I am really glad I did. I now have a much better job that I like more and pays much better. But she got me through those darkest days and there is no way I would let her down for a stranger.


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## Montana Scout

DharmasMom said:


> And I will be honest about something else. I wouldn't risk my life that way for a stranger. I would call for help, shout for a lifeguard, or throw them a life preserver if I was in reach. But I wouldn't risk my life by going in after someone I don't know. Sorry, just wouldn't.
> 
> My dog OTOH, I would risk my life for. She saved my life a couple of months ago. I got fired from my job and that first week I was SOOOO depressed I seriously considered suicide. Seriously considered it, like made a plan and everything. However, when I was crying uncontrollably in the garage one day, Dharma licked my face and then buried her head in my lap. I realized I could never leave her. Who would take care of her?? Would she end up in a kill shelter, scared and alone? How long would she be with my body, wondering why I smelled different and wouldn't get up to play or feed her? I held on and I am really glad I did. I now have a much better job that I like more and pays much better. But she got me through those darkest days and there is no way I would let her down for a stranger.


i applaud you for not going through with this... there are terrible things in life that happen to people, but taking your own life is extremely selfish to your friends and family... im happy that your pup help you reconsider your poor judgement.. if you ever feel like that again you can even contact me or im sure anyone else to reconcile with...


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## selzer

If I died trying to save someone else, my parents and siblings would be very sad, but they would also be proud of me. They would not think that I was selfish not to think of them and throwing my life away.


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## selzer

On the other hand, I would have a hard time facing my family if they knew that I let someone drown while I was trying to get my dog out of trouble.


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## Xeph

> but taking your own life is extremely selfish to your friends and family


I completely disagree, but that's another thread entirely


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## Montana Scout

Xeph said:


> I completely disagree, but that's another thread entirely


how so?


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## Lesley1905

I would definitly have to save my babies first. I have no children of my own yet, so therefore these dogs are my world and my heart. Even with kids, they would still be in the same place they are now. My husband is on the SWAT team with his police department and makes fun of me because whenever there is a search warrant, or hostage situation...I always ask first..."were there any dogs, are they ok''? Or if we are watching a movie and a horse falls down because the guy got shot, I say "Oh no...poor horse!!"


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## selzer

I wonder what the percentage is of people with no kids who would save their dog first or instead of a stranger, as opposed with people with kids.


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## Larien

I would save my dog. And probably take flack for it later, but so be it. Bottom line is, a stranger means nothing to me and my dog means everything to me. My dog is my family, I value my dogs ABOVE most people I know, including family members, and I would not hesitate to rescue my dog first.


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## DharmasMom

Montana Scout said:


> i applaud you for not going through with this... there are terrible things in life that happen to people, but taking your own life is extremely selfish to your friends and family... im happy that your pup help you reconsider your poor judgement.. if you ever feel like that again you can even contact me or im sure anyone else to reconcile with...



Thank you. It was a rough time but I got through it. It is true that "if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger".



Also, as for the selfish part, I think that depends on the situation. In my situation, yes, it would have been. But there are people out there that struggle with severe depression, every day for years. Also people who have severe medical problems that won't necessary kill them but give them a very poor quality of life. For these people, I understand that their psychological pain or physical pain is too great for them to go on and if that is the road they choose then I think families should try to understand.


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## lish91883

I'd save my dog first. My dog is my family, as much as anyone's child. A life is a life.


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## CB54

No brainer, family, my dog. From personal experience an adult drowning is in full blown panic and will crawl right on top of you to save his life. I was taught as a Boy Scout, unless you're absolute sure you can overpower the person drowning, you'll liable to be drowned also. Alsways use something they can grab onto and not you.


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## Kris10

This thread has been up a while and is very interesting-but maybe it needs to be pointed out again that the drowning scenario is part of a hypothetical situation. Replace drowning with "your dog and a stranger are on railroad tracks and you only have time to push one out of the way of the train" for example.


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## lish91883

I will always chose to save my dog's life over a stranger's. Doesn't matter the situation. Selfish or not, I'm going to chose what I love, in this case my dog, over someone/something that I have no connection too.


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## seyffertc

My DOG over and over every time!!


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## fireal

as cocky as this may sound, i think i could take both at the same time.
im only 18 years old, but im 6'1'' and 200 pounds, and cuz of hockey i am in great shape and working out is one of my hobbies. not to mention my girlfriend was a great swimmer and a life guard and taught me how to save a drowning person.
but for the sake of the question, i'd go for my dog first. i obviously dont know how having a child feels, but my dog is the closest thing toa child to me and i love him more than any of my family, he is probabaly just as loved from as much as i love my baby sisters


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## Akk578

I would have to say my dog. I am not a good swimmer, I would be afaid a person in panic would pull me under with them. I would do my best to help them but I wouldn't retrieve them less I could do it with a rope or something I would just call for help and pray they make it. It is a very serious situation, I don't think anyone really knows for sure what they would do unless they are faced with it.


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## CaseysGSD

selzer said:


> I wonder what the percentage is of people with no kids who would save their dog first or instead of a stranger, as opposed with people with kids.


Good question...before I had kids My dogs were like my children. After my kids were born it's a so much more intense love that my dogs took a back seat. Don't get me wrong, I love my dog a lot and now that my kids are in school, I am enjoying free time to spend with my now dog and the amount of bonding is diffrent again but hands down the love for my children is 10 fold that of my dog.


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## selzer

Does it give you a different perspective of human life though? Would you save a stranger because you understand as a parent how hard it would be to lose a child of whatever age? 

I love my dogs, I would rather spend time with my dogs than any people (including my family most of the time). My pictures are ALL of my dogs, I have a couple of pictures of small family members WITH MY DOGS. From about ten years old, I wanted to be a veterinarian because I wanted to help animals. I have no kids and never have.

But I would put a human stranger first. In fact, I would hope that my veterinarian would also. Because with a critter, I can take that critter in and tell her that it is time. A veterinarian who thinks a life is a life, might not agree with my decision about the dog's state of deteriorization/quality of life/amount of discomfort. Maybe the two questions are unrelated.

But in fact, I WISH my vet was my doctor. My vet will look at the condition and without running a bajilion tests, will treat it with the averages of what it might be, and treat the symptoms, and 98% of the time be dead on. And when I am terminal, and I am hurting, my vet will pump the purple kool aid into my veins and then wait for my heart to stop beating before calling the undertaker to come and collect the remains. My doctor won't do that.


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