# Vet thinks my puppy is aggressive



## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Hi again,

We just brought Fanta back from her first vet visit (first with us that is). I am pretty concerned and need your help.
Here is the story:
Vet (man in his 50s maybe 60s) comes in to the room and she goes over to him with no problem. licking his hands and checking him out in general. He tells me to put her up on the table so he can examine her. I am not sure what he was trying to do with her but she started to complain and was trying to escape. so he then tried to grab her on the sides of her neck to hold her back and it only got worse then he proceeded to try to pin her down on her back and she just kept fighting.
First of all I was a little







off that he was getting a bit rough with her and was raising his voice but didnt say anything to him. He started to lecture me how this is how GSDs are nowadays, skittish and aggressive and that I have a real problem on my hands. Well, I have no problem handling her at home and I think that she might have been afraid of the new situation. after I held her she was fine and he could examine her a little more and after he gave her treats she just laid down on the table and was the best puppy ever (she is always anyway







). In my opinion he should have started with treats to break the ice.
He told me he hasnt seen a puppy fight like that in a long time. that they usually just fall asleep on the table. 
I didnt take her to the vet before because I was waiting till her 12th week to vaccinate and didnt want to go in to the germ factory before that. Catch 22 if you ask me.
I know we haven't been "practicing" holding her down on her back to dominate her but otherwise have no issues when cleaning her belly or clipping nails. She is not ecstatic about it but definitely not fighting it tooth and nail.
I definitely dont want her behaving that way in the future and hope it will go smoother next time but it definitely gave me something to think about.
What do you all think?

I definitely have to work with her on it but what is the best way to do it?

Thank you all in advance.


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## shilohsmom (Jul 14, 2003)

I would run, not walk, to another Vet.


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## lilysmom (Dec 27, 2000)

I'd find a new vet, real quick


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I'd get a new vet. scared and trying to escape doesn't = aggressive for one thing. also, was the table slippery? has she ever had to stand on one before or up on any height? you get the idea.. him getting rough with my dog would have had me walking out, esp if he tried to pin her down on the table. 

also, I've never held a dog down on his back to "practice" dominating. 

first, continue getting her used to having people handle her ears, feet, nails, etc etc

second, take her to the vets office just for treats and maybe a quick hop on the scale (after vaccines)

socialize socialize socialize...


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## FuryanGoddess (Dec 26, 2009)

What is the best way to go? 

Find a new vet! 

That's what it sounds like you need to dog. No do is gonna like being grabbed and pinned down by a stranger, esp one that is raising his voice and becoming tense. Dogs sense that. I'm sure she was like [censored] is going on here, you know? 

She's just a baby still and vets like him are the kind that are going to give GSD's even more of a bad rap. 

My puppy barked at another dog? does that make her aggressive? I don't think so. I think she needs time to adjust and I think she might have wanted to play. I know I sure the [heck] wouldn't want one of my kids pinned down on the table and told that *I* had a problem on my hands when the dr has no idea who they really are. Who wouldn't fight that? Name one animal on this planet that wouldn't be scared or mad to be dominated like that? 

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I feel about it.

I'm sorry you and your pup had to go through this today. Give her extra squeezes to make up for it.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well I think, and I'm no expert, that if that vet continues to man handle her like that then SHE will continue to act like that at the vets...99% of vets know squat about dog behavior. 

You were right on being PO'd, I would have been livid, he went about the initial exam ALL WRONG..

You don't have to practice holding her down on her back, it is NOT necessary at all .. Alpha rolling is old school, and can make a dog much more defensive/scared and could result in the 'roller' getting bit good.

I find the majority of vets if they don't own gsd's, they don't particularly like them and they aren't great about treating them properly. (not health wise)

I hope you find another vet that isn't of the 'old school' mentality and has a better attitude towards your puppy..

If not, I would NOT let him pin her like that again...


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## Virginia (Oct 2, 2008)

I think you should find a different vet. One that doesn't have a bias against GSDs, because this will become a recurring problem in the future.

The pinning a puppy down on their back thing used to be a test of the puppy's temperament. Whether or not they fought back, and how hard they fought back was supposed to tell you if your puppy was dominant or submissive, or something like that. I don't know if this is still a commonly used temperament test for puppies (I would think that it's not since there are better ways to test for it through extensive interaction with the breeder), the dogma was that the most appropriate reaction for a puppy was to fight back for a bit and then give up after a while. If the puppy didn't fight back at all, it was said to be submissive and have bad nerves or something. 

So given that, I don't think there's anything wrong with your puppy, and I certainly don't think she's aggressive. She's just doing what her little puppy brain tells her to do


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## Mandalay (Apr 21, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: smyke I know we haven't been "practicing" holding her down on her back to dominate


and please don't start practicing this. 

I agree with the others, I would advance to the next vet, do not pass go and go and do not collect $200.







I, myself, would have scooped my puppy up and left the vets office. Wow.


Oh, and I doubt your 12 wk old puppy is agressive, I think she is a normal puppy. He'd have probably suggested I put down my land shark, Mandalay, had he seen her at that age.


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## cjauch (Jul 2, 2009)

I agree with many of the other posters...Get a new vet.


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## mysablegsd (Aug 7, 2009)

New vet.
Be more forceful, don't let anyone treat you or your dog like that.
I would have told him off and left.


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## smerry (Dec 5, 2009)

run ... dont walk to another vet ....


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## pamela berger (Jun 19, 2008)

Listen to your instincts --- NEW VET!


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## Metalsmith (Mar 25, 2009)

Yeesh-What an awful experience for you both! I'll echo the other opinions here and say it's time to find a new vet! I have no idea why he felt he had to use that kind of force with your little puppy. 

I'm hoping you can find a much friendlier and gentle vet. Someone who is calm and low-key in the way they handle their patients. 

If your dog is past the vulnerable age of needing her puppy vaccine boosters, talk to your new vet about bringing her in every week or so to get a treat from the receptionist. See if you can ask for one of the vet techs to come out and pet her and maybe weigh her or otherwise interact with her. This will help her to view the vet's office as a positive place that you both visit often enough to make it a hum-drum, normal experience.

Good luck to you and your puppy!


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh yea Mike, time for a change. Vet was way off line there. And I don't blame Fanta one bit for how she reacted. Shows the girl knows how to stand up for herself. What's even nicer is how quickly she recovered. Good pup!


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

No Alpha Roll! I agree, find a new vet!


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## Amaruq (Aug 29, 2001)

Run do not walk to another vet. *I* would have reamed the vet out for mishandling a young pup in such a manner. I also would have picked up my dog and gone to my vehicle and left. Probably uttering rather loudly to the clients in the waiting room about how the vet was manhandling a BABY puppy!

I also would recommend NOT trying to pin your dog down. It is a good way to ruin a relationship with a young pup. There are much more positive ways for you to EARN your pups respect by being a FAIR leader, not by manhandling your pup into "submission".


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## allieg (Nov 4, 2008)

Yup new vet for sure...He sounds like a real peach and I don't mean a sweet one..Try to find one that has GSD experience.I lucked out knowing someone who is an K9 officer so I use his vet even though I have one 5 minutes away from me and this one is a half hour away.
Do not take your pup back to that jerk unless you want a fearful pup.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

New Vet. 

After all, if a vet and his staff aren't going to be nice to a PUPPY, do we really think they're going to be nice to a full size adult GSD? 

Your dog should LOVE going to your vet's office. I bring my kids in for weigh-ins and they walk in like they own the place. None of the vets in my vet's office own GSDs by the way.... neither do any of the specialists I use... but from when they're pups, I bring them in, and everyone (from the receptionist to the office manager to the techs to the kennel workers to the vets) meets the pups and plays with them a bit, handling them, giving them treats, etc.

You want a vet like that, who thinks that clients should be welcome, valued and treated like family. 

When my dogs go in for unpleasant procedures, they aren't thrilled, but they don't freak out because it's one bad experience out of 10 good ones. 

You and Fanta deserve that sort of treatment, even if you have to drive a bit longer to get it. Start looking around now. Drop by vet offices with Fanta and see how they respond to you. Also, watch to see how other clients are treated. If the receptionist is friendly, ask if you can speak with the office manager or one of the vets. If they're not available, ask if they can call you so you can chat further. In the meantime, drop by another one or two clinics as well and do the same. See which is friendliest. Then when you speak with the manager or vet, tell them about your experience and see what they say. 

They shouldn't necessarily attack the other vet (that would be unprofessional), but they shouldn't defend him either. 

When you've done all of this, pick the clinic you feel most comfortable with and try it out. Obviously, you need to then tune in to whether the vets there are knowledgeable. Do they push vaccines? Are they open minded about nutritional options? Etc. 

But I wouldn't take my dog back to that other guy. You may need to if it's an emergency and he's the closest vet to your home. But otherwise, go elsewhere. 

And go back frequently. Drop by just to weigh Fanta every week or two. Let the staff get to know you a bit, and let them get to know Fanta and see her grow up. They'll have a bond with her that will be invaluable. She won't be just another dog that comes in once or twice a year. She'll be their little Fanta.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Get a new vet right away!!!


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## doggonefool (Apr 15, 2004)

> Originally Posted By: shilohsmomI would run, not walk, to another Vet.


I totally agree! I have had 9 dogs in the last 30 years and worked with several vets in several counties...only one vet who I didn't think was in sync with me. Even he never tried anything like that with any of my pups!

That is truly appalling!


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## Quirinus (Dec 13, 2008)

I agree - get another vet!


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## Doubleminttwin (Aug 21, 2009)

I am going to go against the crowd here and say Fanta is just vicious and aggressive by nature....sooo aggressive in fact you should problably send her to me for indefinate rehab


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## Kayla's Dad (Jul 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: smyke
> I definitely have to work with her on it but what is the best way to do it?


Well you got a pretty fast, universal and unanimous answer for that one. And I'm pretty sure not many went past the first paragraph before making it. I surely didn't.

So on to the next part of your question:

First off it doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong and you shouldn't draw that from whatever your (old) vet said or how Fanta reacted to that kind of treatment.

Make sure you are handling her all over her body. Rubbing, massaging, examining etc. and praising her for allowing it. squeezing (lightly!) feet, nails. 

When (not if) you find your new vet, do a few visits just to socialize and have the staff treat and praise and make a fuss. Go in just to make and chart her weight during her early months.

And be proactive with your new vet. Ask to hold and assist while she is being examined. Participate in the examination and ask the vet what you should be looking at and for between the vet visits (even if you know!) 

Good luck in your vet search!

edit to add: Okay Jen beat me to post so it's no longer unanimous!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

So the more I read and the more I learn I have to wonder....aren't vets required to take some sort of class to learn how to approach animals? It's not just the older vets as in this case. It's the younger ones and vet techs also. It's crazy they way they charge a dog and then complain that they are aggressive! And a puppy? Come on already!


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you all for your replies. Once again this forum proves to be invaluable to me.

I knew something was not right when he got into it with her but never owning a puppy that young before I truly didnt know what to think.

There are few other vets in the area so leaving that one will not be a problem.

Luckily they had a "free initial exam" coupon so at least I didnt have to pay for that treatment. I paid for the vaccine though, but would have regardless where I went.


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

no one man handles my dog, get a new vet.


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## GranvilleGSD (Mar 28, 2007)

I have to agree with what everybody else here has said. I've worked at a few vet offices, one sticks out in my mind. This vet handled dogs in the room exactly like you described. You don't even want to imagine how he handled the dogs when they went into the back for any kind of treatment! I'm not even gonna get into that, but I was outta there pretty quickly.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

how do these people get thru veterinary school? long time ago i guess. what an air brain. ugh. so glad it was free, he should have had to pay you.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted By: Everett54 Okay Jen beat me to post so it's no longer unanimous!


Ah, See? Samuel didn't read MY post.







I said that my pups go to my vet's office and get played with and HANDLED a lot.

The more *trustworthy* people that handle Fanta, the more she'll be willing to accept handling -- not just from you but from others. You need to do handle her, but you should find others whom you can trust to hold her, pick up and play with her paws, lightly touch her ears and tail, etc.

But in order to do that, you need to have a vet/staff that you can trust, which this guy ain't it. 

And then, puppy classes, specifically ones that encourage pups to interact with other owners as well as the other pups.










But that's a different thread.


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## AK GSD (Feb 27, 2008)

New Vet! If you know other folk in the area with dogs ask them about their vets and maybe you will get some good feedback on one. A good vet should be relaxed handling all breeds because the dog will sense it. Spending the time to research and find a good vet and establishing a relationship with them is just as important as the research put into finding a good breeder and so often overlooked. If/when a pup gets sick a good vet is worth their weight in gold and if/when the time comes to make that final one way journey a good vet is priceless. 


Ditto these earlier comments -



> Quote:And go back frequently. Drop by just to weigh Fanta every week or two. Let the staff get to know you a bit, and let them get to know Fanta and see her grow up. They'll have a bond with her that will be invaluable. She won't be just another dog that comes in once or twice a year. She'll be their little Fanta.





> Quote: Make sure you are handling her all over her body. Rubbing, massaging, examining etc. and praising her for allowing it. squeezing (lightly!) feet, nails.
> 
> When (not if) you find your new vet, do a few visits just to socialize and have the staff treat and praise and make a fuss. Go in just to make and chart her weight during her early months.
> 
> And be proactive with your new vet. Ask to hold and assist while she is being examined. Participate in the examination and ask the vet what you should be looking at and for between the vet visits (even if you know!)


Good Luck


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Sorry came in late 
Vet is a Jackass find a new one!!


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

When my vet met each of my dogs she spoke softly to them, she showed them(and does this every time) the stethiscope(sp?) and shows them other 'tools' like the thingy she looks in their ears with. She also gets down on their level and does not stare into their eyes. Very sensible, dog savvy ladies at my vet office. I have to agree that you need a new one as quick as you can find one.


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## kess&ellie (Jan 14, 2008)

When I took Kessler for his first vet visit (new vet), I got the same treatment as you did.

I didn't feel comfortable from the very start and although I stayed for that visit for his age appropriate shots, I never went back. I wasn't going to subject either of us to treatment like that and the attitude that I had a problem dog.

Find another vet. You won't be sorry.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I would go farther than that and write a note to the vet, explaining to him your concerns...it can't hurt and maybe will help him see the way he is handling pups is negative to his business. Maybe give him some links to sites about body language and calming signals!


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Sadly, a trip to my office would take you about 45 minutes. But since we live in the same county, PM me, and I'll be glad to suggest some good vets in you area!!!!
If driving isn't an issue, Fanta could come see me and the vets I work for!


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## Raziel (Sep 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: BJDimockSadly, a trip to my office would take you about 45 minutes. But since we live in the same county, PM me, and I'll be glad to suggest some good vets in you area!!!!
> If driving isn't an issue, Fanta could come see me and the vets I work for!



YOUR A VET?


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

No! 
I'm a CVT!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

My vet gets down on the dogs level every visit. He is not afraid but still careful. He never manhandles a dog in exam! I have a female whose chart was labelled muzzle only by her first vet. Funny she actually crawls into the lap of this vet every time.

We have a vet in town who has little regard for dog social behavior. He almost always swoops down or treats the dogs roughly. He just is not a star and he gets no business or recommendation from me. I would have to use him in an emergency situation as he does share call.

I am so hoping you can find a practitioner with better instincts and who is more caring for your pup'w psyche!


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## Toffifay (Feb 10, 2007)

My rescued GSD was man-handled by a Vet before I got her and thus had a deep mistrust for Vets. I found one nearby, that has no fear of the "power" breeds and makes it very clear that gaining my dogs trust of utmost importance to her. She and the Tech spend lots of time cooing, praising and giving treats when I take my dogs there. I am so happy with the improvements Toffee has made regarding her acceptance of veterinarians, because of these ladies!

Don't listen to the dumb-







Vet that thinks your pup is aggressive..he's callous and prejudice, imo! Your pup needs confidence not dominance!! 

Find another Vet asap!!


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

> Quote:after I held her she was fine and he could examine her a little more and after he gave her treats she just laid down on the table and was the best puppy ever (she is always anyway ).


staying around at that clinic to finish off on this note was well done of you & Fanta 
- MORE PICTURES REQUIRED NOW NOW NOW!!!!! - at the moment I keep picturing a long slender glass bottle full of orange liquid (with 20% <u>real</u> juice)


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

Poor pup!

Vet is an idiot.

Ask around for vets that are familiar with big dogs and GSDs.


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

I'd ask how the pup reacts to restraint in general... If when you try to hold her against her will she panics... starts struggling, yelping, snapping perhaps even biting... they you have an issue to address. If she doesn't like it, but tolerates if, they the vet MAY have over reacted. 

HOWEVER!! I worked for a vet for 25 years, and had one pup, an 8 week old Rottie who went absolutely insane when he was mildly and carefully restrained. Tried to bite, and actually lunged for my face. We did advise the owner to work on him with tolerating restraint. This doesn't mean doing Alpha rolls, but a normal level of restraint while having ears, eyes, teeth and nails checked. He went home all jacked up because of the advice, but was told by his dad to LISTEN to the advice. Thor came back @ 4 months a total gentleman, happy, healthy and well adjusted... meanwhile his litter sister had to be Euthanized before a year of age for uncontrollable aggression. 

There's not really enough info to say which is your case... you need to be honest with yourself about the level of aggression and the situation. I've been to Vets who had no business handling a GSD, like the one who told their assistant to be VERY careful taking our ole marshmallow WGSD gal back to be spayed cause "All GSD's are nasty, especially those white ones!!"


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: BJDimockSadly, a trip to my office would take you about 45 minutes. If driving isn't an issue, Fanta could come see me and the vets I work for!


A 45 minute drive is really not bad, I have driven that far. 

Something to consider Smyke.

So sorry for Fanta. Vets often mistake fear and struggle for aggression. I would heed the great advice here.

New vet.

No alpha roll, PLEASE don't roll her and play dominance games with her. Just be a leader and you never have an issue.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

find another Vet. <

i've never held a dog down to dominate them. <

i got my puppy when he was 9 weeks old.
we went to the Vet 2 or 3 times a week
for handling, treats, mock exams and socializing. <

now when we go to the Vet my dog
just lays down and waits his turn. there's no 
reaction to the other animals. <

is your puppy enrolled in any classes? <


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I work on holding them, but not on their backs. As puppies I hold them calmly and I remain calm. They struggle a bit or throw a fit even. As soon as the pup calms, say good and let it go. They learn that getting quiet is the quickest way to praise and freedom. This is done gradually and consistently. Makes it nicer on them for exams and nail clipping etc.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: SambaI work on holding them, but not on their backs. As puppies I hold them calmly and I remain calm. They struggle a bit or throw a fit even. As soon as the pup calms, say good and let it go. They learn that getting quiet is the quickest way to praise and freedom. This is done gradually and consistently. Makes it nicer on them for exams and nail clipping etc.


I do this too. It's good to get a pup accustomed to gentle restraint and desensitize them to handling. We did this exercise in Halo's puppy class, cradling the pups in our arms and giving treats while handling their ears, feet, tail, tummies, faces... I practiced for a few minutes every day.


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## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I LOVE this PHOTO!!!!

I bet Fanta is thinking the Vet has agression issues and needs someone to get him under control quick



> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: SambaI work on holding them, but not on their backs. As puppies I hold them calmly and I remain calm. They struggle a bit or throw a fit even. As soon as the pup calms, say good and let it go. They learn that getting quiet is the quickest way to praise and freedom. This is done gradually and consistently. Makes it nicer on them for exams and nail clipping etc.
> ...


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

> Originally Posted By: Betsy
> I bet Fanta is thinking the Vet has agression issues and needs someone to get him under control quick


That would probably be a true statement. The poor pup probably thought the guy had lost his mind.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

I'm with what everyone already has told you...find a new vet now. If he treats little Fanta like this in front of you can you imagine how he would treat her when you are not there









I could tell you some stories that I have been told as to what goes on behind the scenes at veterinary clinics. It is very important that you find a veterinarian that you are comfortable with and trust. If you get a bad feeling, trust your gut instinct.

I also always check to see if the veterinarian had any disciplinary action against them: http://www.ct.gov/dph/cwp/view.asp?a=3143&q=435274&dphNav_GID=1830

Michaela


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

That is a good site to have.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

it is a great site. thank you.

Windwalker, I will work more with her on it, but honestly she does fine with us. she lets me hold her, put her on my lap, I can hold her down when needed. Like I said we brush her, clip her nails and clean her ears on regular basis and its never an issue. she had some rash on her tummy and we would roll her over and my wife would clean it and she would never fight it.

I feel that she basically freaked out in a new situation. new place, new person trying to dominate her. he could have told me what he wanted to do and I would have helped him but he let the situation get out of hand and next thing I know he is slamming her down on the table. 
thinking back I should have let him have a piece of my mind right there and then.

one positive thing: I was very pleased to see her calm down very quickly at the end. right before he vaccinated her he gave her treats and she didnt even notice he pricked her. she just laid there on the table eating as if nothing ever happened. 
then he praised her so I know it could have been done differently.

I promise to post pictures later tonight.







she is gorgeous.

on a different note:
is 14lbs a lot of weight for a pup to gain in 4.5 weeks? we picked her up on 12/12 she weighed 11.7 and yesterday she was 24.8.
she looks great and not fat at all.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Karlo gained an average of 3# per week til he hit about 6-7 months.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you, Jane. we are right on schedule then.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

OMG I would have seriously lost my







if a vet treated my puppy like that. I probably would have made the news: " 5'4 Redhead loses her







at local vet office, one vet injured, woman quoted as saying "no body man handles my puppy!" more at 5 o'clock"

Just think, if he thinks that THAT was aggressive, what's he going to do when a 65lb dog walks in? His bias will be insane. We got Anna at 12 weeks, our vet sat on the floor and played with her while he talked to us for about 10-15 mins, then put her on the table and did everything and we were out. 

The relationship you have with your vet is one of the most important things you can do for your dog, and a good vet is worth their weight in gold. Poor little Fanta!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

let this be a warning to all of us-if you feel uncomfortable then stop the action, complain and leave.Do not let someone proceed roughly with your dog-ever. I have a very special vet who handles Paige. Never ever accept anyone man handling your dog.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Ditto ^^^^^^^

And I think I woudl drive that 45 minutes for the great vet too. 

It is good she calmed down and forgave quickly. Sounds like she has an overall great temperament.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Well, I should have looked few miles further from home.









There is a 24 hour facility ( Bolton Veterinary Hospital ) 15 minutes from me where I actually had to take my boxer for emergency surgery years back. I checked their website and found that few doctors and techs actually own GSDs. their prices are a bit higher and they are a HUGE practice (19 doctors - it was suggested that I may possibly not get the "personal service" there) but I am willing to try them.


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

Our vets office has five vets on staff and countless techs. We still get personal service. They are a little more expensive than other vets in the area, but they do a lot of new stuff and have top of the line technology and equipment. They will also serve as an ER vet after hours with a phone call.

And with five vets in there with experience ranging from 50 years to graduating vet school in 2006, they all work together to find solutions to problems.

It's not a personal as having a one vet office, but it's not horrible and the care is pretty dang good.


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## tintallie (Aug 6, 2008)

I take Miya to the Fish Creek 24 Hour Pet Hospital and regularly see a couple of their vets there and they are fantastic, so just because it is a large practice doesn't mean you won't get personal service. With the exception of maybe a couple of vets (out of 8), the vets will approach the dog at their level (they don't normally elevate a large dog to the examination table, but work with the dog on the floor instead).

If it is a normal routine procedure like an annual exam or vaccine, I try to book my appointments for when a specific vet (one of the partners of the practice) is in. Any time that I have had to bring a dog in during after hours, they don't charge exorbant prices either which is nice.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Definitely try the new vet. Large practices can be excellent & might provide services & expertise smaller practices can't.

Windwalker raises a valid concern. IF Fanta has fear/nerve issues, even mild ones, those are better addressed now when your baby is young & malleable than later when behavioral patterns have become ingrained. IF she doesn't, then no harm done by keeping an open mind & an eagle eye on the possibility.

The fact that Fanta does fine with <u>you</u> means very little. Fanta loves & trusts you. She knows she's safe & secure even when you do mildly unpleasant things to her. What happens when she leaves her comfort zone is important as well as how wide & deep that zone actually is. Note, she's a baby now & truly an act in progress. Her zones & behaviors are being developed & shaped. Rushing to judge & label, such as the vet did, is unnecessary & counter productive.

This is not to say Fanta has any temperament issues, just that it's better to be alert, aware & proactive. Nor does it excuse the vet's actions which were appalling. Many pups go through squirrelly fear stages at several ages (can't remember when they are). Regardless of why the pup (or dog) is upset, finesse & sensitivity are needed, <u>not</u> manhandling & macho posturing.

Congrats on your pup, btw. It's obvious what a loving, caring & devoted owner you are.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Mike, I know a couple of people with gsd's that go to Bolton and they rave about the service there. It is pricier from what they've told me, but they like the 24 hour service and have always had good luck with them..


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

I absolutely dont want to ignore the problem if there is one. being so new to this I may not be the best judge of that. I will try a new vet and see how that goes. i strongly believe that with a different approach from the vet that fist visit would turn out a bit differently, but like you said there may be an issue.
I am also signing her up for puppy K so that may also help me figure stuff out.
Diane, do you know anything about Alice Anderson that trains at Bolton Vet?

We took her to PetSmart and to an "outdoor mall" today (Evergreen Walk for those from CT







) and she did great. met all kinds of people and dogs and she was perfect. We will continue to do that with her as it seems to be a perfect spot for socializing.

Here are couple of the latest photos of our "monster".


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## Jason L (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh she is a cutie!!!!


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

What a vicious looking little beast you have there!









She's a cutie!


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## SuzyE (Apr 22, 2005)

she is stunning and serious! THIS is the dog you were referring to? LOLOLOLOL ok, now I am not one to hold back and I would have told your vet to his/her face that they were an idiot and that I would nevr ever recommend them to anyone. that is totally unacceptable. Yes, GSDs are rough puppies, yes yes yes but anyone in the field should know that.
how about this? It was my vet that told me Paige was a GSD. I was told she was a sheltie/shepherd pup. she was also VERY shy. So he says to me "what do you think this is?" and I tell him and he says "no, this is 100% German Shepherd and a shy one at that." Now I had really no idea the implications of all that. I was a novice dog owner who thought she had a mutt...


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm a little late to this thread but honestly the pups reaction is no surprise to me. My pup HATED restraint. However we worked hard on restraint exercises (NOT alpha rolling or pinning the dog!!!) and after a few months, he became my BEST dog as far as being able to bathe him, trim nails, keep him still, etc.

There are several good exercises you can do with little pups that help them not only accept but begin to enjoy being restrained and holding still. I'm not sure I'm comfortable describing them here since they can be misinterpreted and misused, but I would find a good trainer or behaviorist who is experienced working with puppies on restraint, calming, self-control, etc.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

yeah, I am hoping that the puppy K class we most likely will be attending will help me figure some things out.

This is the trainer:
A. Anderson, PhD, CPDT-KA*., Behavior & Training Department Director
Companion Animal Behavior Consultant, AKC Authorized Canine Good Citizen Evaluator, Certified Therapy Dog Evaluator, Member A.P.D.T.**, Member International Association of Companion Animal Behavior Counselors, Member Bright & Beautiful Therapy Dogs, Inc.

Hopefully with all those titles (whether they mean anything or not) she knows what she is doing.









I am hoping to check out one of her classes before I commit.


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Mike,
Check out Tails U Win in Manchester too! 
As training goes, they are the best we have in this side of the state, and 5 minutes from Evergreen!
Next time you want to go to Evergreen, let me know!!!!
Tasha could use some get out time, and learn to work with someone walking with us!


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Diane recommended them too but their schedule does not fit mine too well.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Mike are you near glastonbury? I'm not quite sure where vernon is in regards to glastonbury...but another place you might want to check out (tho I think Bolton sounds great!) is Central K9..
http://centralk9.com/index.html

Jessica (the owner) is a good friend of mine, and she's a good trainer as well ))


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm 20 minutes from there.
I like Bolton's schedule since they have a kindergarden class on Saturdays. it would work perfectly for us. 

Vernon is between Manchester, Ellington, South Windsor and Coventry.


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## AK GSD (Feb 27, 2008)

Fanta is growing into one fine looking young lady!


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm a little late to this thread too, but yeah - I'd say you have a vicious killer on your hands, there.







(And a very pretty one at that.)

It sounds to me like this vet is the one who's skittish and aggressive. I've been through some lousy vets, but I think that one would have actually surprised me. I've never seen one quite so incapable of handling a puppy.
Your girl sounds like a perfectly normal GSD pup to me. Gunner was... uh... a little strongheaded when he was that age and he, too, hated to be restrained. If they tried to hold him down, he'd struggle for everything he was worth. When they stopped trying to hold him and just let me stand in front of him and distract him with a treat in my hand, he was a perfect angel and they could do whatever they needed to, with no trouble at all. They did make some notation on his records about his "attitude", which is pretty funny now. Our current vet has said that he's one of the easiest, most agreeable patients she's ever seen. 
I'm glad you're trying a new vet.


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## Miss Molly May (Feb 19, 2010)

You should have grabbed him(the vet) and held him down. That is your puppy don't let anyone treat him like that. Get a new vet.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

already did 

with the new vet Fanta wasnt too thrilled about the exam either, but he was calm, gave her treats and asked me for help. we got through it.
when booking an appointment I asked for a vet who owns a GSD. 

totally different experience.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Awesome! :thumbup:


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## Bama4us (Oct 24, 2009)

Last visit with Bear, the vet tried to look at his rash on his under belly so he tried to roll him over and had me and the assistant keep him still and he stated we need to work on holding him down because right now Bear reaction is panic but later it would turn to biting when he got older. What did he expect, flopped him on his side and started pulling his legs apart, I'd kick and bite too.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

Hopefully you are doing some handling exercises at home so that he can lay on his side and be examined easily.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

**** that guy... find a new vet. 

Lets see him try that with an adult dog who really is aggressive and see what happens. He won't be getting rough with too many dogs after that.


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## smyke (Sep 24, 2009)

Kayos and Havoc said:


> Hopefully you are doing some handling exercises at home so that he can lay on his side and be examined easily.


yes we are and she lets us do it with no problems (unless she is fired up and just wants to play LOL)

she has a problem with strangers handling her in general so we have to work on that. but I already noticed the difference between the two vet visits.


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## jay d (Nov 28, 2009)

Somebody should pin that idiot that calls himself a vet,down and check his reaction!!!!!!!!!!! You need a new vet,who can do their job without abusing your dog!!!


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