# Some Raw Questions After 1st Vet Visit



## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

I recently got a puppy and she was weaned with a raw diet. I am feeding her the same as what her breeder was feeding her. My question is: the breeder advised the frozen raw should be thawed for her to eat. A good friend of mine lets her dogs eat them frozen. They seem to really enjoy this when teething according to her.

My question: is it better to let the frozen patties thaw for a pup? Is there a time limit on the patties once they thawed so they don't go bad? And, if they are thawed, can they be safely stored in my family's refrigerator (bag closed)? I noticed the bag bled some, so I threw the meat in a Tupperware. 

I asked the vet yesterday at the puppy's first appointment and I was lectured about feeding her raw. Something about getting worms, dying, potentially voiding the warrantee on her heartworm medication... how Iams is better because of regulation (hello… wasn't there a massive recall on kibble … and Iams included?? She didn't like that statement). She also said it was unsafe to keep in my refrigerator with my own food.

Anyway, I have read the benefits of the diet for close to a year, have seen the results in dogs and cats, and am sold on it. I do; however, want to ensure I am doing it right. Advice appreciated.

Thanks!


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

Iams better, lol.

Most vets unfortunately get a 1 day seminar about dog food. Guess from who? Dealer reps. 

My vet doesn't believe in raw, but she doesn't berate me for it. She has the science diet crap for the ones that need it, but also sells Orijen. So at least we've gotten her more to our side of thinking and she's at least willing to listen. 

Even when Oxana got her only ear infection after putting her on chicken/rice Canidae, my vet asked me what I was feeding before. Told her, she said go back to doing it then. 

If I thaw meat out for my family, it's in my refrigerator. Thanksgiving turkeys, thawed in the fridge. how is that unsafe? Now if were dripping all over the rest of the food, ok. 

Sometimes it's best to know what your vet has a clue about and what they don't. Feeding is normally don't have a clue.

I suppose you could do frozen since I give ice cubes when they're teething. I thaw out 10lb chubs of beef at a time, put it in a pan, stick it in the fridge. I normally try to use within a couple days.


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

I don't give them a full raw diet, they are given half kibble and half raw meat. I do thaw the meat for them before giving it to them, but I also give them marrow bones covered in meat from the store and I give those to them frozen, they LOVE it!


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## ldpeterson (Feb 13, 2005)

I don't know if my opinion counts because I only supplement with raw, but I have fed it frozen many times before. I try to thaw it out first because it just seems it would be more pleasent to eat that way, but sometimes don't have time.

I could see how feeding it frozen might be beneficial to a teething pup though. 

It's ironic that if you want advice on diet and nutrition, some of the last people that will have any knowledge for you are the veterinarians. I've consulted with three canine nutritionist within the past 2 months and it's so funny how different their opinions are from the vets.


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## KCandMace (Apr 8, 2008)

The boys started raw as pups... and sometimes their meals were halfway frozen. They are still alive.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

My vet said to me: "I got 11 hours of nurtition education-- provided for us vet studenty BY A DOGFOOD COMPANY." She then urged me to feed raw if possible. She had done her own research.

I have fed half-frozen on very, very *rare* occasion, but I would reccomend that you thaw the patties!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I have fed straight from the freezer, half-frozen, thawed from the fridge, and thawed room temperature. I have yet to see any ill effects from doing so. I have also given the patties frozen. I prefer to feed thawed from the fridge, however.









I think as long as you're practicing safe meat handling skills, you should be just fine. I always find it amazing that vets (and other people) freak out when they hear you're handling raw meat. As if none of us handle raw meat for our own meals!


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

My question is: the breeder advised the frozen raw should be thawed for her to eat. A good friend of mine lets her dogs eat them frozen. They seem to really enjoy this when teething according to her.

<span style="color: #000066">I feed frozen alot, mostly because I can't handle the smell of fish.</span>

My question: is it better to let the frozen patties thaw for a pup? Is there a time limit on the patties once they thawed so they don't go bad? And, if they are thawed, can they be safely stored in my family's refrigerator (bag closed)? I noticed the bag bled some, so I threw the meat in a Tupperware. 

<span style="color: #3333FF">Dogs are different than people for how long meat can last. I would throw out for humans 1 day after fully thawed, dogs I'll let it go two or three, infact that's how I sometimes get rid of food we haven't cooked.</span>


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## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks everybody! I have a better handle on this now and appreciate your comments/guidance.  

I think the vet was a little too gung-ho about freaking me out to get her Iames kick-back. That was just one of many concerns I had about her -- my other fav for your ca ca and giggles was this conversation:

Vet: "Why did you decide to get an attack dog?" 
Me: "Huh?" _*Looking at the puppy asleep in the corner, head on paws* _"Her? She isn't an attack dog. She is a GSD."
Vet: "I disagree. Her paperwork shows she from a European working line - those are attack dogs. I don't think you know what you are in for. I hope you don't have or live near kids."

The food, plus the "attack dog" conversation, and the rec to not train/socialize (even one-on-one in the home to avoid disease) until 15-16 weeks was a little over the top for me. 

After the initial visits and shots, I will most-likely be using a different vet. Till then, I appreciate all the help you all provide!


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: NC_PetMommaVet: "Why did you decide to get an attack dog?"
> Me: "Huh?" _*Looking at the puppy asleep in the corner, head on paws* _"Her? She isn't an attack dog. She is a GSD."
> Vet: "I disagree. Her paperwork shows she from a European working line - those are attack dogs. I don't think you know what you are in for. I hope you don't have or live near kids."



Yep, new vet, this one's an idiot.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Wow, a new level of ignorance in veterinary care.









I feed the raw patties to my cat and to my dogs and have been doing so for 5 years. They will stay fresh after defrosted in the refrigerator for at least 3 days. I do feed them defrosted. I either keep them in stainless steel bowls or I also have a special tupperwear that I use just for the patties.


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## emjworks05 (May 30, 2008)

YES! i agree with Angela, maybe its time to find a new vet?


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## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Emjworks05maybe its time to find a new vet?


Oh, yeah, I was just trying to be nice in my post saying "most-likely." I love my pets too much to take them to a vet with that kinda attitude. Makes me want to just get in the car and drive up to where I moved from (MD) to take them to our old vet! I loved them. They saw animals as extensions of the family, loved people like me with Pet Insurance, etc. Our old vet was actually on my list of "reasons to not relocate"!!! Ha ha!


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Wow. Puts a whole new spin on 'ignorance' methinks.


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

My "attack dog" is squeaking his pink piggy in the other room. Run for your lives!







Yes, time for a new vet. 

I could have respected the vet more if he or she had said" Many dogs from these lines need experienced owners or for the first-time owner to be supported by a training club."

But... attack dog? Gacckk.. new vet time.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

Here is my European working line attack dog....careful...he is a sneak attack dog


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## Tetley's Mom (Dec 1, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Axxelcareful...he is a sneak attack dog


Yeah, I read about those. I will keep sleep with one eye open just in case mine is one of those...


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

What a cute pic!!


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## KCandMace (Apr 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: AxxelHere is my European working line attack dog....careful...he is a sneak attack dog










Oh so scary!!!!

I agree. Time for a new vet!


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## JulieAG (Nov 9, 2008)

haha the chihuahua in this house is more of an attack dog than the gsd... and the last time we brought it to the vet we had to muzzle him! I highly doubt we'll have to touch the shepherd with a muzzle... as he's licking hand... and the computer keys, as I type this...


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: Humm3rJhaha the chihuahua in this house is more of an attack dog than the gsd...


Same here! Haha. My parents Chihuahua/Dachshund is also more of an attack dog than my GSD. 

God, as a first time dog owner I think I would be SO upset by a vet that treated me like that. Ugh.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

> Quote:Vet: "Why did you decide to get an attack dog?"
> Me: "Huh?" *Looking at the puppy asleep in the corner, head on paws* "Her? She isn't an attack dog. She is a GSD."
> Vet: "I disagree. Her paperwork shows she from a European working line - those are attack dogs. I don't think you know what you are in for. I hope you don't have or live near kids."


Now this, class, is what we call an "ignorant quack." Please take note of this. And now, class, pop quiz:

What should the OP do with this "vet?"

A) Get a new vet
B) Dump this vet
C) Drop this vet like a bad habit


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

D. all of the above. 
E. All of the above and go visit Lori's nice European Working Lines service dog on vacation; take pictures and email them back to the vet to show him what a moron he is.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What about printing out some good information on the benefits of RAW feeding and educating the vet? I am tempted to do this myself as I had the same experience, almost word for word as the op. I am switching to a vet that is closer, and though I don't know her thoughts on raw feeding, she is at least more open minded than the practice I have been going to for 30 years. I think when vets get their kibble education, they probably get one on the horrors of feeding raw, by the Iams, and Hills reps- where would the kibble manufacturers be if we all switched to raw? They would need a bail-out, too!


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: onyx'girlWhat about printing out some good information on the benefits of RAW feeding and educating the vet? ....


I think it depends. Some vets you just can't work with. Their attitude bleeds into vaccination schedules and all sorts of things. Other vets you might be able to disagree about the food and still get the kind of care for your animals that you would like.

I've had both vets -- the vet I have now, will brag to everyone in the office how great my dogs look, but if I ever try "dog food", she is so happy. Of course, it has never lasted for more than a week....


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## DanL (Jun 30, 2005)

I think if you try to educate most vets, especially one who touts the dangers of a raw diet and owning attack dogs, you'll be faced with nothing but ego. After all, they spent years studying this stuff, how can the average pet owner know more than them? There are open minded vets out there, who accept raw, and believe it or not, attack dogs. I hope you can find one!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I wouldn't confront a vet with the raw info, just mail it and let them go over it. You are right about the ego thing, the vet practice that I am now leaving made such a big deal that I fed raw~first thing out of her mouth was "I went to school for 6 years, so I know what I am talking about" She couldn't look past the diet to see what the cause of Kacies diarrhea was. All tests came back neg, so she blamed her diet~Tunnel vision...she was so rude w/ me about all the negatives, even was talking with the staff while tests were being run, I could hear them in the back going on and on.


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## rjvamp (Aug 23, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: NC_PetMommaThanks everybody! I have a better handle on this now and appreciate your comments/guidance.
> 
> I think the vet was a little too gung-ho about freaking me out to get her Iames kick-back. That was just one of many concerns I had about her -- my other fav for your ca ca and giggles was this conversation:
> 
> ...


Get a new Vet


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## LisaT (Feb 7, 2005)

> Quote:.....and the rec to not train/socialize (even one-on-one in the home to avoid disease) until 15-16 weeks was a little over the top for me.


Wow


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

Don't panic. Raw-endorsing vets ARE out there. I had one in USA, and have had two here in Germany that thought raw was the BEST way to feed a dog. Search for a vet that is okay with raw, even if she doesn't endorse it. 

Use words like "an all natural diet" and "species-appropriate." How great that the vitamins, enzymes, amino acids and minerals in your dog's food are all _bioavailable_ and not reduced greatly by cooking and over-processing.


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