# Vet Said No Raw Meat For Dogs?



## GhostBlood (Aug 6, 2014)

Hello, this is my first post. My name is Cody and we just got our FIRST German Shepherd on Saturday (08-02-2014). We named him Hunter and he is the best puppy a guy could ask for. I have always read online and been told by a few people that meat (raw or cooked) is better than anything made in a factory (dog food). I always agreed with this based on the fact that dogs are descendants of wolves. Why would a bag of dog food be BETTER than real meat?

I have done my research online before even buying my German Shepherd. When I took him to the vet yesterday for his check ups, I asked about feeding him meats. The vet told me that meats are not better than dry dog food. I do not wish to argue any points with the vet who clearly has studied this more than I have...But I was not entirely convinced. 

Would it not be MOST beneficial to give my GS pup some of the best dog food (dry food) and some meat as well? Would providing both meat and dry food be best nutritionally? In the wild I do not see many animals buying from a pet store, why would a dog differ? He is suppose to eat what I give him, and with that in mind I want to give him what ever is best for him. 

Any insight or advice is always appreciated. Hunter is 11 weeks old right now, I assume he is not to young to have a little red meat or chicken, bit I have not given him any as of yet. 


Thank You to anyone who helps me out with my newbie GSD questions. It is very much appreciated


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Most vets are against a raw diet. If you want him in a raw diet, do the research and feed him a raw diet. I have a 10 mth old who has never had kibble. I do feed him Bravo Balance because I'm to paranoid to feed a growing puppy a home made diet. If you are worried about that, then look into the commercial raw diets.

And your dog is not a wolf or a wild animal. They have evolved differently so look into the nutritional requirements for dogs, not wolves.


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## GhostBlood (Aug 6, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Most vets are against a raw diet. If you want him in a raw diet, do the research and feed him a raw diet. I have a 10 mth old who has never had kibble. I do feed him Bravo Balance because I'm to paranoid to feed a growing puppy a home made diet. If you are worried about that, then look into the commercial raw diets.
> 
> And your dog is not a wolf or a wild animal. They have evolved differently so look into the nutritional requirements for dogs, not wolves.


I want him on whatever diet is the most beneficial to him, that is all. It is not that I WANT him on a raw diet, personally, I want him as healthy as possible. I came here to ask questions, sorry if they seem stupid, but I am seeking information from others who have or had GSDs. Thank you for your input Jax08 I appreciate it.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Its not a stupid question at all Ghostblood. The problem is most vets don't study nutrition at all. If they're being honest with you, they'll tell you they spend about 15mins in school and then depend on what Purina and Hills are telling them.

I'm completely with Jax on the balance part for a young puppy. I use a commercial raw when they're little. At a certain point it's too expensive for me, but thats how I start them.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Take a look here for vets in your area with experience in nutrition:
FIND A HOLISTIC VETERINARIAN


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

OP said "I do not wish to argue any points with the vet who clearly has studied this more than I have..."

maybe not ! You may have studied this more than the vet .

Lots and lots of good information on diets and nutrition on this forum.

Personally, I have been feeding my dogs a raw diet for almost 30 years -- many generations , long lived , allergy free - good orthopedics .

What did your breeder suggest ?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Unless you do the research, and can properly balance the diet, a bag of dog food is in theory healthier because the maker has balanced the food with other nutrients. Raw food is better, but it has to be done right.

You can't just drop a chicken leg or a steak into your dog's bowl at night and expect him to get all the nutrition he needs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GhostBlood said:


> I came here to ask questions, sorry if they seem stupid, but I am seeking information from others who have or had GSDs.


NOT stupid questions at all! There are many books out there on raw diets to help you get started. rawdogranch.com has lots of information.

Personally, I feed a commercial raw to my puppy because I want to make sure it's balanced properly for a growing dog. My adult gets home made raw. But you still need to make sure it's balanced. 

And you won't know how to do that without asking questions. 

IMO, raw is the best. I see a big difference in my dogs fed kibble to the ones fed raw. And my vet thinks that my cat is healthier on his raw diet as well as thinking we gave our Boxer 4 extra good years by feeding her raw. So, like I said, most vets are against raw diets so you will get the push to feed kibble. But then there are ones who have their eyes open and are seeing the difference in the animals. Just make sure you gain the knowledge to make it a balanced diet.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Here is a list of veterinary specialists trained in animal nutrition: Frequently Asked Questions « American College of Veterinary Nutrition

You can also have a diet formulated by someone like Monica Segal (not a veterinarian). Monica handles Nikki's diet and I can recommend her. There are many others that offer this type of service but I have no personal experience with them.
Puppy Consultation

As far as feeding your dog raw meat there is a ton of information on the risks of bacteria/parasites that could make your dog sick. You have to do your own research and consider the source of your information


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the balance doesn't need to be calibrated per meal or per day , just overall making sure that you provide a source for vitamins , minerals , and essential fatty acids.

Orijen is a good kibble . I keep a bag in the freezer for emergency , like being snowed in , or ice-storm, or power failure where meat will spoil .


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

All the evidence you need on the benefits of a raw diet are right here in this thread.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/111711-changes-after-being-switched-raw.html

Look at the before and after photos, they don't lie.

I switched our dog from kibble to raw 2 months ago and will never ever go back. The changes in him are dramatic.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Dr. Becker has a very informative book out on diets with sample menus and recipes.
"Dr. Becker's Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats: Simple Homemade Food"


[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Beckers-Real-Food-Healthy-Dogs/dp/098253311X[/ame]


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

quote "As far as feeding your dog raw meat there is a ton of information on the risks of bacteria/parasites that could make your dog sick."

when you feed raw you are in control of the quality and ratios . You know what you are feeding.

there are more recalls of kibble for bacterial or mold problems -- including several deaths


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

In all fairness, animals can get sick from raw just like they are getting sick from kibble. Just like WE can get sick from bacteria on our food. I think illnesses that animals get from raw diets just aren't reported because it doesn't relate to a commercial company. I do think there are less sick animals on raw but I'm not a vet, nor do I play one on TV.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It's all about research and figuring out if it's something you want to commit time to. It takes time, people that tell you it doesn't take that much time...lying. You might not have to do it daily, but I've heard most people do it weekly, freeze the meals, defrost, give to the dog, ect.

I remember I did the prepackaged raw for a while because we didn't have the space to have a chest freezer and buy the meat in quantities where it would be cheap enough. There were more than a couple mornings when I work up and realized I hadn't defrosted another stick of raw for my dog to eat. It's just something to think about. That's why kibble is kibble and if you get a high quality one it's just fine to feed your dog.

Would I suggest raw to people? If you're willing to put in the work...of course. But you have to realize there is a lot more to it. I'm just giving the warning that if you're used to feeding kibble...it is a little bit of a change. And depending on your schedule, you'll definitely have to make time to do this right.

And as far as the sickness thing...it's a numbers game. Most dogs are on kibble so more dogs will get sick period.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Another long time, multi generation raw feeder like Carmen. 

Raw feeding is no more difficult than thinking about what to feed yourself. If you tend to eat fast food, processed food out of a box and rarely if ever prepare your own food, then, yes, raw feeding may seem to be time consuming and difficult. Kibble is easy. No thought required. Scoop some food into a bowl and you are done. 

Most vets have practically no knowledge of feeding dogs or any animals for that matter. What they do have they received from big kibble companies like Hills. There are vets out there that have gotten further education in canine nutrition, but many of them are also more involved in alternative medicine.

And just to add, no sick dogs from raw feeding in all those years either even when I had fed meat that would make a human sick. Dogs' digestive tracks are designed to handle raw meat/bones/organs/entrails/poop.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Raw is no where near as complicated to feed as it sounds on paper and it doesn't have to be a complete and balanced every meal, it balances out over time. I give mostly muscle meat(a wide variety but minimum 3-4 different proteins)during the week but then add bone in meals a few times per week along with organs about 3 times a week(the majority being liver but you also want to do kidney, pancreas, etc). I don't even weigh anymore... The biggest issue with raw is TIME.

I do a big bulk order every few months and spend a day thawing and portioning out meals so that I can just grab a bag, thaw and serve. I recently just did a big 130lb order, was very sweaty and exhausted after lol but it's worth it for the change I see in my dogs. 

This is my favorite starter guide, goes over everything including vets! Also if you're on Facebook do a search for the raw feeding community group, best raw group on Facebook full of wonderful helpful people. http://www.chanceslittlewebsite.com...nners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.7.pdf#page19


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you feed your dog raw food intelligently, then you will have a healthy pet.

However, it really doesn't mean that you should liken it to wild dogs or wolves. Are you going to fast your dog for days at a time? Are you going to make him run for miles maybe to bring down something, and then let him fight through the hair and hide to kill and eat it. And look at how long critters in the wild generally live. There are not a lot of aged wild dogs or wolves because their bodies will have trouble hunting and killing, and their teeth will have trouble eating stuff. 

Pets are pets. And we need to give them the diet that meets their individual needs. Raw meat, organs and bone can provide this. A cooked diet that we make with respect to the dog's system can also provide this. And then there is dog food, kibble. Well, kibble has been developed and manufactured to sustain canine life. It actually can do this. Probably moreso because a dog's system is that of a scavenger as much as anything else. 

I think that vets sometimes see the results of people choosing not to feed dog food, but also not feeding the dogs intelligently, and yes this can create problems. I think that vets will steer people away from this like the herd people in general to alter their animals. They do not have a working relationship with you yet, and do not know whether or not you will feed a raw or home-made diet intelligently.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

You can buy commercially prepared raw diets that are balanced. That is my preference with a growing pup.

With my GSD as an adult, I do my own, or will buy prepared sometimes too.

Your vet is right in that you need to make sure it's balanced over time, so you need to get a few things right, but you do not need a PhD in canine nutrition to feed your dog raw, just like you don't need one to feed a human toddler.

You just need to feed roughly the right amounts of the right types of meat (muscle, bone, organ meat) and offer variety. The problems come when you have a chronic deficiency or overage over a long period of time.

Vets don't actually have that much nutrition training, sadly. Just what the pet food manufacturers give them, which is a conflict of interest at best.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> I always agreed with this based on the fact that dogs are descendants of wolves. Why would a bag of dog food be BETTER than real meat?


when was the last time you saw a wolf in the grocery store buying packages of chicken quarters?
i thought not
until you can go and catch wild prey for your dog or let him or her do it 
you might be better off with a quality kibble




> Unless you do the research, and can properly balance the diet, a bag of dog food is in theory healthier because the maker has balanced the food with other nutrients. Raw food is better, but it has to be done right.
> 
> You can't just drop a chicken leg or a steak into your dog's bowl at night and expect him to get all the nutrition he needs.


good post martem
my thoughts exactly
the calcium and phosphorus ratios have to be exact or you risk growth issues in your puppy
you do not want growth issues because their skeleton has to carry them around for the next 12 yrs or so


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

*Cody:* The misinformation that gets repeated over and over about raw makes my head spin. Just because something gets repeated a million times doesn't make it true, just keep that in mind. Here is just one good article and I have many more if you need them to make an educated decision. 

Risks outweigh benefits of raw meat-based diets for pets | Tufts Now


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You can also consult with universities like Cornell that will analyze the diet you've formulated and make recommendations on what vitamins/minerals are lacking to ensure a balanced diet.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

keep in mind also that dogs have lived very long lives for generations while eating 'just" kibble


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Wow look how horribly sick and unhealthy my raw fed dog looks! So glad you enlightened me. 


Ollie boy by Carriesue82, on Flickr


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

my boy diesel said:


> keep in mind also that dogs have lived very long lives for generations while eating 'just" kibble


While this may be true, kibbles seem to be degrading in quality since the old days when they used horse flesh, and sourced the ingredients locally, because that was what was cost-efficient. Now they are sending out to China for everything, and I think we are seeing some really bad kibbles, even with some really healthy price tags.


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

How exactly is it misinformation? I'm sure there are just as many articles to back up their premise as you have for yours. *shrug*


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Heidigsd said:


> *Cody:* The misinformation that gets repeated over and over about raw makes my head spin.



Where is the misinformation?


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Galathiel said:


> How exactly is it misinformation? I'm sure there are just as many articles to back up their premise as you have for yours. *shrug*


Let's see some of those articles you are referring to, I would love to read them. 

This article takes apart some of the false claims that are repeated on message boards. 

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.co...-want-barf-proceedings?id=&pageID=1&sk=&date=


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

> Now they are sending out to China for everything,


do you actually have proof of this claim?
if so i would like to see it
many of the better companies get their ingredients here in the us

selzer do you feed raw?? i thought you always went to tsc to shop for your food??


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Carriesue said:


> Wow look how horribly sick and unhealthy my raw fed dog looks! So glad you enlightened me.


Who said anything about horribly sick and unhealthy on raw? Really don't get the point of this post.

Do you want me to post a picture of my two perfectly healthy and beautiful dogs that are on a kibble diet? I actually didn't see a single difference in coat/stool/energy level when we switched off of raw to a high quality kibble.

I'll agree that there are dogs that thrive on raw. Dogs that have allergies, or have other special needs. But for your average dog...I highly doubt you're going to see a huge difference. Most people probably won't even notice it.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

selzer said:


> While this may be true, kibbles seem to be degrading in quality since the old days when they used horse flesh, and sourced the ingredients locally, because that was what was cost-efficient. Now they are sending out to China for everything, and I think we are seeing some really bad kibbles, even with some really healthy price tags.


My kibble (Fromm) is made 20 minutes north of where I live. Let me know if anything you or your dogs eat comes from that close by.


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Heidigsd said:


> Let's see some of those articles you are referring to, I would love to read them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...nd-healthiest-diet-for-pet-cats-and-dogs.aspx 
http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/HealthyPets/DrBecker-RawMeatDiet.pdf


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There are obviously people very much for, and very much against, raw diets. You need to do your own research and weigh what risks you are willing to take per diet.

Personally, the feedback I get from my vets and the blood work I do on my animals has much more weight in my opinion than strangers on the internet. So when my vet tells me my cat is one of the healthiest (excluding the feline Leuk. he has) Himi's he's seen for his age and he attributes that to the raw diet. And the other vet tells me that he thinks the main reason our Boxer lived to be almost 14 when he rarely sees them past 10 is due to the change in diet from kibble to raw. I have to take their experience seriously. Not once have they told me stories of sick animals due to a raw diet (and believe me! The one vet is a little dramatic so he would have said something to me and been brutally honest like he always is).

So read ALL the information, including the studies against, and make the decision you are comfortable with. You don't need us pro-raw feeders harassing you anymore than the anti-raw feeders.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

my boy diesel said:


> do you actually have proof of this claim?
> if so i would like to see it
> many of the better companies get their ingredients here in the us


You want proof that the food is being processed in China? It seems that is common knowledge. Very few companies are sourced and made in the USA anymore. The higher end companies are, but not all of them. Victor is both source and made here with non-GMO ingredients (why I order it in!) But very few companies have ALL of their ingredients sourced here in the U.S. Just email any of them and ask. Do a search for kibble threads on this very board. Many ppl have already mailed, asked and posted replies.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

martemchik said:


> My kibble (Fromm) is made 20 minutes north of where I live. Let me know if anything you or your dogs eat comes from that close by.


I'm sitting 2 blocks from an Evo plant right now. I go back and forth between raw and Kibble for different reasons with different dogs, but my main concern with the kibble is WHERE are the ingredients sourced from. Fromm doesnt cover that as far as I can see, and it makes me a little nervous with the two foods I mainly do feed too. 

Food Safety - Fromm Family Foods


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

martemchik said:


> Who said anything about horribly sick and unhealthy on raw? Really don't get the point of this post.
> 
> Do you want me to post a picture of my two perfectly healthy and beautiful dogs that are on a kibble diet? I actually didn't see a single difference in coat/stool/energy level when we switched off of raw to a high quality kibble.
> 
> I'll agree that there are dogs that thrive on raw. Dogs that have allergies, or have other special needs. But for your average dog...I highly doubt you're going to see a huge difference. Most people probably won't even notice it.


That post wasn't directed towards you... It was mostly sarcasm because of all the misinformation on this thread. 3 of my 4 dogs are currently on 100% raw, they were all healthy and had no issues on kibble. Even then I still noticed big differences in them after switching to raw. I don't think kibble is poison or evil but someone who's never even fed a raw diet spreading misinformation about it, yes that does bother me.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

and yet there are two people right now in this thread who state their foods are made in the usa and the ingredients are also obtained in the us
hmmm 
btw many of the meats we buy in the stores are now being processed in china or other countries and i see more and more meats imported from other countries
many of the fish i shop for are farmed in other countries


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

martemchik said:


> It's all about research and figuring out if it's something you want to commit time to. It takes time, people that tell you it doesn't take that much time...lying. You might not have to do it daily, but I've heard most people do it weekly, freeze the meals, defrost, give to the dog, ect.
> 
> I remember I did the prepackaged raw for a while because we didn't have the space to have a chest freezer and buy the meat in quantities where it would be cheap enough. There were more than a couple mornings when I work up and realized I hadn't defrosted another stick of raw for my dog to eat. It's just something to think about. That's why kibble is kibble and if you get a high quality one it's just fine to feed your dog.
> 
> ...



I never thawed any food for my dog. He ate frozen nearly everyday. I don't think it mattered to him either way.





Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

my boy diesel said:


> and yet there are two people right now in this thread who state their foods are made in the usa and the ingredients are also obtained in the us
> hmmm
> btw many of the meats we buy in the stores are now being processed in china or other countries and i see more and more meats imported from other countries
> many of the fish i shop for are farmed in other countries


I get my meat from local farms, I never buy grocery store meat for them... way too expensive anyways.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

my boy diesel said:


> and yet there are two people right now in this thread who state their foods are made in the usa and the ingredients are also obtained in the us
> hmmm
> btw many of the meats we buy in the stores are now being processed in china or other countries and i see more and more meats imported from other countries
> many of the fish i shop for are farmed in other countries


FOOD. I stated ONE food. In fact, it's the only food I found when researching kibble that sourced all their ingredients here. MANY others are sourced in China, which is what Sue said and you argued with. So, by all means, list the foods that are sourced and made here for the OP instead of making vague, snide, remarks.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Carriesue said:


> I get my meat from local farms, I never buy grocery store meat for them... way too expensive anyways.


Local butcher. Then you know where it came from.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

You guys crack me up. How did this thread go from someone asking about feeding their dog the healthiest way possible to fighting about raw diets? LOL


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Nikitta said:


> You guys crack me up. How did this thread go from someone asking about feeding their dog the healthiest way possible to fighting about raw diets? LOL


That's what all the threads on this board do anymore.

Here's the bottom line...you can feed your dog well doing either IF you do your research. And you have to research kibbles as much as you need to research raw. The OP needs to make his own decision based on what he is comfortable with.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

Jax08 said:


> MANY others are sourced in China, which is what Sue said and you argued with. S.


no she said


> Now they are sending out to China for everything,


everything

and i can tell you that is not true
one should not make blanket statements about anything esp stating it as fact

i am sure many things come from china but everything does not come from china


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok..so instead of arguing semantics, which is in no way helping the OP...name some brands of food that are sourced and made here in the US.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Steve Strom said:


> I'm sitting 2 blocks from an Evo plant right now. I go back and forth between raw and Kibble for different reasons with different dogs, but my main concern with the kibble is WHERE are the ingredients sourced from. Fromm doesnt cover that as far as I can see, and it makes me a little nervous with the two foods I mainly do feed too.
> 
> Food Safety - Fromm Family Foods


You might want to investigate a little further, the answers are in the Q&A section

Questions And Answers (FAQ) - Fromm Family Foods

*Where it's made:*

Where is Fromm Made - Fromm Family Foods

*Ingredients from China specifically:*

Fromm does not contain any ingredients from China - Fromm Family Foods

*Even ethoxyquin is addressed:*

Fromm does not contain Ethoxyquin - Fromm Family Foods


As always, if you want to know - just ask. I've found Fromm to be extremely helpful and honest in their answers. It's one of the main reasons I don't mind paying the big bucks for their food


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Jax08 said:


> Ok..so instead of arguing semantics, which is in no way helping the OP...name some brands of food that are sourced and made here in the US.


 
Including the added synthetic vitamins and minerals, many, that can not be obtained in the USA at all anymore.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Shade said:


> You might want to investigate a little further, the answers are in the Q&A section
> 
> Questions And Answers (FAQ) - Fromm Family Foods
> 
> ...


Ahh, it was all cleverly hidden right in plain sight. Thanks Shade. Lol.


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## Heidigsd (Sep 4, 2004)

Mrs.P said:


> The Completely Healthy 'Pet' Food Your Vet Probably Vilifies
> http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/HealthyPets/DrBecker-RawMeatDiet.pdf


I know about Dr. Becker but have never read that second article...thank you for posting it. I am not a fan of hers and many veterinarians with some pretty impressive credentials don't seem to agree with her - she calls them "uneducated" 

I have only had one experience with a holistic veterinarian and it was horrible so I am not a fan but everyone has to do their own research and make their own decisions.


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## PoukieBear (Mar 25, 2014)

Carriesue said:


> Wow look how horribly sick and unhealthy my raw fed dog looks! So glad you enlightened me.
> 
> 
> Ollie boy by Carriesue82, on Flickr


And look at how horribly sick and unhealthy my kibble fed dog was before we switched him to raw.
It all depends on the dog. If your dog does great on kibble, then lucky you! If not, then you need to find alternative ways to feed your pet.


You can see his ribs, he's underweight, and his coat was coming out in clumps. He was scratching, itching, chewing himself obsessively. His eye booger were puke worthy.


And this is only 2 months after switching him to raw. Lucky for us, we found something that works.



Would I have switched him to a raw diet if he didn't have a laundry list of problems with Kibble? Probably not. If he looked as good as Carrisue's dog, then I would have no problems with a good quality kibble. 

Unfortunately for us, alternative nutrition had to be pursued.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

poukie, really? you posted this pic in a diff thread saying he was neglected. 

dogs thrive on good kibble as well. even the cheap stuff. heard many stories.

in the other thread you also said the second pic was after 4 months. 

any dog from a neglectful home will look bad. you can feed him Purina and he will bloom within a short time.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

poukie your dog was neglected in many more ways than kibble
and if the dog doesnt do well on one brand switch! dogs can be allergic to one kind and not another
raw feeding does not work for everyone and there are billions more dogs eating kibble than raw out there and they are doing just fine and living to ripe old ages

dogs are scavengers and can do well eating just about anything you throw at them :shrug:


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## Mrs.P (Nov 19, 2012)

Heidigsd said:


> I have only had one experience with a holistic veterinarian and it was horrible so I am not a fan but everyone has to do their own research and make their own decisions.



That is very unfortunate. And I have had some very bad experiences with traditional vets and some very good experiences with traditional vets  I wouldn't categorize based on one experience alone.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

Mrs.P said:


> That is very unfortunate. And I have had some very bad experiences with traditional vets and some very good experiences with traditional vets  I wouldn't categorize based on one experience alone.


Exactly... I had a bad experience with my traditional vet regarding my cats chronic renal failure, his misunderstanding of the disease and poor treatment protocol shortened my cats lifespan but I am not going to go painting all traditional vets with the same brush. My other vet who would be categorized as a traditional vet is totally onboard with me feeding raw and tells me to keep doing what I'm doing based off their health.


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## Sagan (Apr 27, 2013)

This article made a lot of sense and has cited sources. Dogs Are Carnivores

I began feeding raw at 10weeks and didnt think much about it. I feed a variety of different meat once a day (4-5 lbs), include bones and organ frequently, and also supplement with eggs and sardines. I also fast him a day each week when its more convenient. Dogs are considered the same species as wolves so I try to liken the diet as it would be in the wild excluding the extremes of a 14day fast and 15-20lbs meal.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Do I feed RAW? 

No, not entirely. I generally get my food at TSC. I thought we are talking about what is best for dogs. Personally, I think that if fed intelligently, a RAW diet or a Homemade diet would be best for dogs. 

I don't know that everyone out there is going to pay attention to the details, and ensure that if they are not feeding bones they are supplementing with calcium sourced by animal products like egg shells, and keeping the phosphorus properly balanced, paying attention to the ratio of MM to OM, and I do not even pretend to know what I am talking about. Nor do they all pay attention to where stuff is sourced, whether raw, cooked, or kibble. And I do think it does make a difference. If I win the publisher's clearing house, I will buy a farm and raise my own beef, chicken, sheep, rabbits, and goats to feed my dogs with. Then I will know what goes into them. Until then, I will need to buy food, either raw, raw to be cooked, or already kibbled. 

Because I don't know, I feed kibble. And yes, I feed a kibble that has crap from China in it. I don't like it. In fact, since the formula changed (without a price increase), to improve it (there ain't no Santa Claus), my dogs are not doing as well on it. I tried to call the company, but the phone is always busy. I think my dogs are likely to see changes to formulas quicker because I have a bunch of them, and I open another bag every 2 days. So, even minor changes from bag to bag can reek havoc to them, because they do not get an opportunity to get used to this bag's makeup, before the next bag is being fed. 

Whatever. I feed raw chicken on occasion. I will skip a meal and hand out chicken leg quarters instead. But I do this no more than once a week, and sometimes not that often. l have a dog that eats chicken based kibble fine, but tends to have digestive issue with raw chicken. She is not typical. Usually the dogs handle any people food, raw or cooked a whole lot better than even a minor adjustment with kibble.

Babs is primarily kibble fed. Her coat looks good and she is fit, and certainly does not look 9 years old. Some GSDs are definitely better at handling a scavenger diet than others. Babs would do great with RAW or Kibble. Only recently have I found that I had better not feed her any very fatty people foods. Whether that indicates an issue with her pancreas or not, I don't know. She's been to the vet, they did not run bloodwork. And she is doing better. Maybe her senior body just can't process the added fat as well now. 

If I came across as arguing against RAW, I didn't mean to. Nor did I mean to argue against kibble. I'll let the rest of you complain about how knowledgeable or not vets are on the subject, it's all been picked over, over and again, and I really do not think anyone is going to add anything constructive to that subject.


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