# How do you tell your mother she is a BYB?



## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Thankfully she has moved on from believing she knows *all* about GSDs, and is selling non-lethal Maltese nowadays. But even tiny poodles don't deserve that fate. Aargh. It breaks my heart. I'm starting to broach the subject, but she really is a sweet lady, and has no idea what harm she's causing. 

I need to diplomatic. I mean, this is my own mother. But it's a heart breaking situation, nonetheless. Advice?


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Start taking her to shows/clubs? Get her deeply involved in the doggy world so that she sees how things are done by reputable people. But that might also make her think she's the savior for the ones that can't afford $1000 dogs and is giving less fortunate people a loving companion.

I don't think there's anyway to point out this fact to someone without making them angry and making it seem like they're doing something wrong. Generally people don't like to know they're doing something wrong.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

martemchik said:


> Start taking her to shows/clubs? Get her deeply involved in the doggy world so that she sees how things are done by reputable people. But that might also make her think she's the savior for the ones that can't afford $1000 dogs and is giving less fortunate people a loving companion.
> 
> I don't think there's anyway to point out this fact to someone without making them angry and making it seem like they're doing something wrong. Generally people don't like to know they're doing something wrong.


Yeah. While a part of me wants her to understand, most of me doesn't want to hurt my Mama. Maybe I can just can just increase her allowance, so she doesn't need to "breed" her poodle 

But I only have so much money to send her. She lives in Mexico. You'd think that would make it easier, but no. Makes it more difficult 


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Wait...is she breeding Poodles, or Maltese?

On top of that, is the care she is giving her animal sub par?


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

JackandMattie said:


> Thankfully she has moved on from believing she knows *all* about GSDs, and is selling non-lethal Maltese nowadays. But even tiny poodles don't deserve that fate. Aargh. It breaks my heart. I'm starting to broach the subject, but she really is a sweet lady, and has no idea what harm she's causing.
> 
> I need to diplomatic. I mean, this is my own mother. But it's a heart breaking situation, nonetheless. Advice?
> 
> ...


What harm is she causing??


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## MadLab (Jan 7, 2013)

> Start taking her to shows/clubs? Get her deeply involved in the doggy world


That could make her worse lol


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

Ok...this is a hard one.

Moms generally don't care for criticism from their children.

Honestly, I think you can mention it but, it probably won't change things.
Based on the info you've posted, she apparently has buyers for the dogs AND needs the money?

Also, it may not be JUST about the money...breeding for her may be a hobby and/or enjoyable. 

(Not knowing her age, I would guess that she's an 'empty nester'?
Breeding her dog(s) is possibly filling a lot of her needs?)

JMO.
 Kat


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if my mom was a byb'er i would call her 8 hours after leaving town
and say "mom, i can't take it anymore. you're a back yard breeder."
then i would hang up and never be heard from again.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> if my mom was a byb'er i would call her 8 hours after leaving town
> and say "mom, i can't take it anymore. you're a back yard breeder."
> then i would hang up and *never be heard from again*.


 ...lol!

OR...she could buy her mom some really good quality pups and let her breed them?

 Kat


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## Chantald (Jul 23, 2013)

I think this is hard all around. I don't think I'd want to have that talk with my mother either. 

I had an aunt that used to breed Daschunds and then later Rottweilers. I was a kid when she was breeding and never thought much of it at the time, but do I know if she was considered reputable or not? No. 

I don't even know even know if I'd want to ask her what her breeding program looked like, because that could open up a huge can of worms I don't know I'd want to broach with a family member LOL. 




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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Personally I wouldn't discuss this with her.


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## Jaythethird (Jul 1, 2013)

Or you can have her breed in the front yard.... I guess I just have a hard time understanding people that just breed to breed. Tell her bob Barker said to remember to spay your pets... I Donno 

P. S. You did help me come up with a pretty decent new Yo mama joke.. So thanks for that.. 

I tapped yo mama so good, she became a reputable breeder  


Hope you figure it out and good luck! 

Howdy from Idaho! 
Oliver Kahn der Fasan Suchenden 
08/03/13


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> if my mom was a byb'er i would call her 8 hours after leaving town
> and say "mom, i can't take it anymore. you're a back yard breeder."
> then i would hang up and never be heard from again.


If doggiedad cant tell his mom, I dont think any of us can lol.

In my family its the opposite. My 24 yr old son didnt want me to neuter our byb gsd, so he could breed him later. Since im the mom, I got to put my foot down and determined he will be neutered. Lol


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JackandMattie said:


> Thankfully she has moved on from believing she knows *all* about GSDs, and is selling non-lethal Maltese nowadays. *But even tiny poodles don't deserve that fate.* Aargh. It breaks my heart. I'm starting to broach the subject, but she really is a sweet lady, and *has no idea what harm she's causing*.
> 
> I need to diplomatic. I mean, this is my own mother. But it's a heart breaking situation, nonetheless. Advice?
> 
> ...


Could you elaborate please. What fate are we talking about. Lots of females are not just good mothers, they are awesome at having babies and enjoy their babies immensely. There is a rough 24 hour period where they are actually being whelped, but unless your mother is keeping more dogs than she can care for, and they are not being properly fed, groomed, cleaned up after, treated when required, then the dogs are not suffering.

Poodles or maltese should be bred responsibly too, with regards to pedigrees, and health checks for the breeds. Do you think that the puppies she is producing are having issues? 

Is your mom a hoarder? Lots of hoarders really do not know what harm they are causing and the dogs are suffering. They sometimes breed too, but that is not necessary in the picture. 
If your mom is a hoarder, than I think you need to try to encourage her to seek help, as it is unhealthy for her as well as her pets. It probably will not be an easy conversation. Having a number of dogs does not make her a hoarder. If the dogs are filthy and/or are living in filthy conditions, are showing signs of neglect, and she is unable to get them veterinary care, then she may be a hoarder.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Xeph said:


> Wait...is she breeding Poodles, or Maltese?
> 
> On top of that, is the care she is giving her animal sub par?


Goes to show what I know about toy dogs. I thought the breed was Maltese Poodle, but it's simply Maltese 

Goodness no, not sub par. Angel is her little baby, and very well cared for. She adores that dog to no end.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

sparra said:


> What harm is she causing??


That's actually a really good question. Maybe I spend too much time in the GSD forums, reading about the potential harm caused by GSD BYBs, and I'm transferring that concern unduly 

I wonder whether there's a Maltese forum out there where people would point out the dangers to the breed standard, etc.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

KatsMuse said:


> Ok...this is a hard one.
> 
> Moms generally don't care for criticism from their children.
> 
> ...


I'd say you're right on track there. She is retirement age, and lonely (kids and grandkids scattered to the winds), and her dogs fill an emotional void for her. And that's not something I want to criticize. It keeps her going.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> if my mom was a byb'er i would call her 8 hours after leaving town
> and say "mom, i can't take it anymore. you're a back yard breeder."
> then i would hang up and never be heard from again.


 
LOL! Well, I reckon I love her too much to do that


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

KatsMuse said:


> ...lol!
> 
> OR...she could buy her mom some really good quality pups and let her breed them?
> 
> Kat


This HAS crossed my mind a time or two. I like the way you're thinking  Ease her transition from BYB to hobby breeder... I wonder whether she would be receptive to that. Probably so! She loves to do her research. Maybe I can just start asking her more about Maltese breed standards, breeding history, etc., and gauge her interest that way.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

fuzzybunny said:


> Personally I wouldn't discuss this with her.


I don't think I will. At least not directly or critically.

But I do think I'll show more of a positive interest. I bet she'd like that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

JackandMattie said:


> Goes to show what I know about toy dogs. I thought the breed was Maltese Poodle, but it's simply Maltese
> 
> Goodness no, not sub par. Angel is her little baby, and very well cared for. She adores that dog to no end.


My brother's wife's kid is breeding American Bulldogs, no papers. He says the people can get papers through some junk registry he named to me and I cannot remember. He says the sire is 1/4 pit bull. 

The young man is schizophrenic, and I am not about to argue with him about what he does. He is not going to ruin the pit breed, not the American Bulldog breed by what he is doing. It is simply not my business. 

A few years ago when he was living with his dad, his dad got carted off to prison, and he was caring for his father's 40+ pits. One got loose and the dog warden came, and they came and shut him down. 

Now my brother's wife is selling springer spaniels. She is finding homes for the puppies, and my brother is actually allowing them in the house -- amazing, really, for him. It simply isn't my business. They are not doing anything illegal. I like to think they do better with dogs than they do with horses, but then I remember Merlin -- rough collie killed when given horse wormer, and Dixie -- didn't fix the broken hip, and the mutt puppy they got from the shelter, who landed in the road and is no more, and Dusty the chow mix they had that attacked the HS Principle's wife when it chewed its way out of the basement window when they were on vacation. 

I am sure they have their opinions about me and my dogs. 

I guess I figure if the dogs seem to be in good condition, we should probably keep our opinions to ourselves when it comes to family. If someone comes on here and asks about it, we should educate, and hopefully not run them off. But people who aren't asking, well, they probably aren't going to take your unsolicited advice very positively.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Or you can read on the maltese forum where someone lost her pregnant bitch and puppies, and you can mention that to your mom. If it is her little princess, she might not want to risk it again. But if her bitch had no trouble the first time, she probably won't worry too much about the risk.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

selzer said:


> Could you elaborate please. What fate are we talking about. Lots of females are not just good mothers, they are awesome at having babies and enjoy their babies immensely. There is a rough 24 hour period where they are actually being whelped, but unless your mother is keeping more dogs than she can care for, and they are not being properly fed, groomed, cleaned up after, treated when required, then the dogs are not suffering.
> 
> *Poodles or maltese should be bred responsibly too, with regards to pedigrees, and health checks for the breeds. Do you think that the puppies she is producing are having issues?*
> 
> ...


No, she's definitely not a hoarder  She has the Maltese, and recently rescued a little stray puppy (teacup size mixed breed) off the streets and has nursed it back to health. So, she owns two dogs that I would guess total about 6-7 lbs soaking wet, lol! She's just a sweet little dog-loving lady.

As for any puppies she produces having issues, idk. Her dog is cute, and I'm no expert in Maltese, but I'm pretty sure she couldn't afford the type of investment it would have taken to purchase a good breeding bitch when she bought her. The dog is fed well and vetted, etc. When Mom can't afford that, I cover the expenses for her. As for health testing for breeding, though, I doubt it's something she has even considered. She mentioned that she met someone at the store or somewhere who has a male and that they are discussing breeding the two. It just reminded me of all the YIKES stories I see here in the forum about people being approached in the park and asked to provide stud services, etc. I guess that's what sparked my concern. It's not like she has a breeding plan, etc. Hmmm...maybe that's somewhere to start. I could look for some books on Amazon about breeding Maltese and send them maybe? I think she would probably love that. She STILL has a copy of one book published in the 1980s that mentioned one of our GSDs (her very first SchH dog) by name and she is sooo proud to show it to people.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If she hasn't bred her bitch yet, then definitely go and find out about Maltese and the health problems they have as a breed -- what checks should be done. Hip dysplasia is probably not one of them, but blindness or other issues crop up in little dogs, and those that are more popular are more likely to have more health concerns to test for.

Also a good book on breeding. Breeding little dogs has its own set of issues. often little dogs have singletons or small litters, she needs to be prepared for this. the chances of needing a c-section are far greater for very small litters -- pup is bigger than usual and can get stuck easier. Also when a litter is small, labor may not start, or it may stop before a pup is born, or the last pup is born. 

Also small dogs can die from calcium deficiency quite easy. The pups grow pretty fast and take a LOT from mom. Her body produces the calcium, the they scarf it out of her. If she was supplemented with calcium during pregnancy, then her body might not try to make/convert whatever enough to support her and the puppies, after they start to be 2-3 weeks old. Your mother needs to know about this and the signs that she is having eclampsia. 

And, litters for small dogs need to be kept very warm. Maybe 90 or higher with no drafts in the welping box. A GSD has more body heat, and a small heat lamp is usually sufficient to keep her pups warm, while she is spending most of her time in there with them. But with a small dog it is not necessarily so. 

I have never had anything but GSDs but I have a friend who raises Yorkies, and I hear things and read things.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

selzer said:


> If she hasn't bred her bitch yet, then definitely go and find out about Maltese and the health problems they have as a breed -- what checks should be done. Hip dysplasia is probably not one of them, but blindness or other issues crop up in little dogs, and those that are more popular are more likely to have more health concerns to test for.
> 
> Also a good book on breeding. Breeding little dogs has its own set of issues. often little dogs have singletons or small litters, she needs to be prepared for this. the chances of needing a c-section are far greater for very small litters -- pup is bigger than usual and can get stuck easier. Also when a litter is small, labor may not start, or it may stop before a pup is born, or the last pup is born.
> 
> ...


Thank you, selzer. This is very helpful, and I will find a way to share with her 


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## Blitzkrieg1 (Jul 31, 2012)

Meh its a toy breed, if she is looking after the bitch well whats the harm? Iv owned Byb toy breeds before they didnt seem to have any more issues then registered dogs. Its not like you have to worry about workability..haha.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I once told my mother that all my problems where her fault, because it's the duty of the female to choose the best genes for her progeny and she chose... my dad and his crappy genes 

But I suspect it's not what you are talking about...


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Catu said:


> I once told my mother that all my problems where her fault, because it's the duty of the female to choose the best genes for her progeny and she chose... my dad and his crappy genes
> 
> But I suspect it's not what you are talking about...


Hehe, no, but it is amusing and put a smile on my face near the end of a long and grueling work day


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

leave town and take your mother with you.



doggiedad said:


> if my mom was a byb'er i would call her 8 hours after leaving town and say "mom, i can't take it anymore. you're a back yard breeder." then i would hang up and never be heard from again.





JackandMattie said:


> LOL! Well, I reckon I love her too much to do that


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> leave town and take your mother with you.


Lol!! Did that once before. We drive each other nuts in the same house. She's still got too much spunk to hunker down with her boring workaholic daughter  I will bring her home when the time is right. Til then, I'm going to get on board and share her tiny dog adventure, from 6 hours away!


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