# Working line breeders in Arizona



## KohnentheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

Hey,


I'm planning to get a working line GSD in 2020, and I am trying to find the perfect breeder. If anyone knows of any good breeders in AZ, please let me know.


I have my eye on this breeder, and I would love to know everyone's thoughts.

I can't link it, but it is Alpine K9 Kennels in Arizona.



Thank you, Willow


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Do you mean this kennel?

Czech German Shepherd Dogs from Alpine K9

I do not like that they sell puppies on a first come/first served basis. How do they know that that puppy would be a good fit for that specific home based purely on a deposit? They wouldn't. That sounds like a selling point for them and not them worrying about the best homes for their dogs.

Their dam, Cindy vom AlpineK9, has hips but is missing elbows. How did that happen? Those are done at the same time, so I would be worried that she failed for elbows. I would definitely triple check on that and other clearances done by them before you get a puppy. I am certainly not the best at figuring this stuff out, and I don't know bloodlines too well, but some others should come along and comment with suggestions.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Are you planing on working in IPO wiht the puppy?

There is a well regarded breeder in AZ - but it would depend on your level of experience and goals as to whether he would have a suitable puppy for you.

Lee


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## KohnentheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

Oh, I see that. I will definitely do a lot more digging, I do have a while before I need to get onto a waitlist. I will also hopefully visit Alpine K9. Yes, he will be doing IPO and possibly dock diving. I didn't notice the missing elbows, but that is worrying. I want a completely transparent breeder. I may contact him about it.
Thank you all, Willow


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

Actually, if I were you, I would be getting in touch with breeders soon. You want to have a good relationship built with your breeder, and a lot of the good breeders have really long waiting lists. I have been speaking with a breeder since August last year and might not have a puppy until next June. Most of our conversations have been about my home, what I expect from my dog, what kinds of things I like to do, how I plan on training, how she raises her puppies, etc. Those are all really good things to have discussed in detail in advance. You are more likely to get a dog from a breeder that way!

Of course, sometimes you can get lucky and get a puppy from great breeder within a month, but that is pretty uncommon. If you are looking for a sport puppy, I would be talking to breeders sooner than I would be if I was looking for "just a pet," but I would be talking with them months in advance for sure.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

KohnentheGSD said:


> Oh, I see that. I will definitely do a lot more digging, I do have a while before I need to get onto a waitlist. I will also hopefully visit Alpine K9. Yes, he will be doing IPO and possibly dock diving. I didn't notice the missing elbows, but that is worrying. I want a completely transparent breeder. I may contact him about it.
> Thank you all, Willow


Please do some more research and be very careful of falling for the "hype" and stories that some vendors / brokers / breeders tell. If your looking for a dog for IPO then there are some excellent breeders that will provide you with a solid dog for sport or work. I'd keep looking if I were you. There are no top IPO competitors that have dogs from the breeder you mentioned. There are many reasons for that.


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Don’t limit yourself to AZ. I drove from CA to Illinois for my pup.


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## KohnentheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

I will be contacting any breeders I find within the next two to three months and I will ask those questions and more. Thank you. I will continue looking until I find the right breeder for me, and I unfortunately may not be able to go out of state. If I could, I would. If I can't find a good breeder in AZ, I will absolutely go out of state/


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

You can always have a puppy shipped to you from another state if the breeder is willing. My puppy will likely be shipped to Colorado all the way from Michigan. I can't handle an 18-20 hour road trip with a puppy very easily, so shipping is the best option for me.


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## KohnentheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

Agreed. Heck, what are some of the best breeders in the USA?


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## KohnentheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

KohnentheGSD said:


> Hey,
> 
> 
> I'm planning to get a working line GSD in 2020, and I am trying to find the perfect breeder. If anyone knows of any good breeders in AZ, please let me know.
> ...





Pytheis said:


> Do you mean this kennel?
> 
> Czech German Shepherd Dogs from Alpine K9
> 
> ...





Pytheis said:


> You can always have a puppy shipped to you from another state if the breeder is willing. My puppy will likely be shipped to Colorado all the way from Michigan. I can't handle an 18-20 hour road trip with a puppy very easily, so shipping is the best option for me.



Thank you for this, it has helped me decide to look out of state. I'm a mess with this forum since I can't quite figure everything out, but I am currently looking at two breeders in California. I will try to drive if possible but he may need to be shipped.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

KohnentheGSD said:


> Thank you for this, it has helped me decide to look out of state. I'm a mess with this forum since I can't quite figure everything out, but I am currently looking at two breeders in California. I will try to drive if possible but he may need to be shipped.


You also have a great breeder just over in Kansas.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

KohnentheGSD said:


> Agreed. Heck, what are some of the best breeders in the USA?



AGAIN! What are your plans, goals and experience....you may have a great litter in CO or NE to suit you...or the other breeder in AZ might be great....what is suitable for you is a 2 sided equation....!!! Someone who has been driving 2 months does not need a Ferrari and someone who has years of experience can handle more than a Ford Focus!


Lee


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## KohnentheGSD (Aug 30, 2018)

wolfstraum said:


> AGAIN! What are your plans, goals and experience....you may have a great litter in CO or NE to suit you...or the other breeder in AZ might be great....what is suitable for you is a 2 sided equation....!!! Someone who has been driving 2 months does not need a Ferrari and someone who has years of experience can handle more than a Ford Focus!
> 
> 
> Lee


 This is my first GSD. I have a GSD mix and I am aware that he is, in no way, even close to the energy and drive levels that a working line GSD has. My plans are to do Schutzhund and possibly dock diving with him when he is old enough. I want a dog that is healthy and has good hips and elbows, as well as good temperament that will work well for schutzhund. His breeder and the schutzhund trainer I'll be working with will determine a pup with the best temperament for what I need.


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## Rana (Dec 30, 2015)

If you don't mind going out of AZ, check out Van Den Heuvel K9. They are in Washington state and Dari, the owner, is very knowledgeable and wonderful to work with. She has this unique talent of matching up a puppy with your needs but be prepared to be quite thoroughly interrogated about you experience level with WL GSD dogs and what your goals are. I got my first WL GSD from her and he has turned out to be exactly what I wanted. If a current littler is not right for you she will let you know and will try to match up a puppy more suitable to your needs and experience level.

Good luck in your search!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

KohnentheGSD said:


> This is my first GSD. I have a GSD mix and I am aware that he is, in no way, even close to the energy and drive levels that a working line GSD has. My plans are to do Schutzhund and possibly dock diving with him when he is old enough. I want a dog that is healthy and has good hips and elbows, as well as good temperament that will work well for schutzhund. His breeder and the schutzhund trainer I'll be working with will determine a pup with the best temperament for what I need.



OK - first off - I see breeders cited here who breed for nice looking pets who most often are not going to be able to be titled who will frustrate you if you really get the bug to train. And others who are a bit sketchy in reputation....

There are no guarantees on hips and elbows...no matter what is in the pedigree, there is always a chance to get bad hips on a percentage basis. I bred 19 litters without a failing elbow...and then got one...the sire did not have elbow certs (I was told he had) and I think there are a few that other people got with failing elbows...

de lupus alpha is a kennel in AZ who know what they are doing for working dogs....I am not on a machine I can look him up on right now...but if you are serious about doing IPO, then contact him....if you are already associated with a club and trainer, then go to him for guidance....recommendations here are often from people who have little knowledge or experience and only know they saw a nice dog somewhere....


Lee


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

I've seen some beauties here. https://www.facebook.com/DDRGermanShepherds/timeline They are in my area but I am currently full here...Good luck.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

crittersitter said:


> I've seen some beauties here. https://www.facebook.com/DDRGermanShepherds/timeline They are in my area but I am currently full here...Good luck.


I would go with a working line breeder that actually works and trains dogs. While a puppy is cute and dogs can be beautiful looking, the OP has stated they want a dog they can possibly do Schutzhund or IPO with. If that is the goal or even a desire, then the best bet is to look for breeders that actually do IPO with their dogs. 

DDR or Czech dogs sound great from an advertising or "hype" on the internet. All that glitters is not gold and just because a dog has a few ancestors that were titled does not mean these breeders actually produce dogs that can work or are truly health dogs with excellent nerves and temperament. Again, people who are actually working dogs in IPO are not seeking these breeders out. 

As mentioned previously, there is nothing wrong with wanting a certain type of dog because you like the looks of a dog. But, the OP wants to do IPO and may very well be disappointed by getting "the old school" Czech or DDR GSD that looks formidable but simply doesn't work well. I've done Schutzhund for years and actually work dogs. I have had GSD puppies that I have raised, trained and titled in IPO and other real world work venues. Puppies can be a crap shoot, I don't like to gamble so I select breeders that have proven their dogs can do the work that I want to do. I look at their results with their own dogs, not hyperbole on what the dogs "should" be able to do. Or what the dogs great grandfather did or accomplished. If a breeder only trains in their own back yard, has never titled a dog, but discusses how "real" their dogs are, those are red flags to me. 

If you have an interest in doing Schutzhund or IPO then get a dog from a breeder where both parents are titled, have hips and elbows OFA'd to start. Ask the breeder if they have kept any dogs back from their breeding and actually worked and titled those dogs themselves. Ask how many dogs that they have bred have been titled in IPO? Ignore all the excuses of not being able to title a working dog, if that is what they claim they are breeding. Also, completely avoid any breeder that immediately knocks or bashes "sport" dogs. Because the next word out of their mouth will be the number of IPO titled dogs there are generations back. Then they will brag about the dog from 20-30 years ago in the pedigree that was titled in SchH or IPO. 

It is very frustrating for someone to research and get a puppy with the hope of doing IPO only to invest months and maybe years to find out the dog just doesn't have the desire, ability, nerves or drive to do the work. I've seen this many times at IPO clubs. When you asked a serious, successful person doing the sport about the breeder they got the dog from, the response will be "Yea, their dogs don't work well, or you will never see any of their dogs titled." 

The last 4 GSD's that I have raised from puppies have all excelled at IPO and LE work. All had good hips and elbows with strong, stable temperaments and high drive. I simply hedged my bets and went with proven breeders where both parents had been titled and high level sport dogs. I like serious, high drive male GSD's and social, high drive female GSD's. I've never had an issue finding a reputable breeder with GSD's capable of doing any type of work. With strong nerves, a good off switch and driven to work, and they have been "real" dogs as well. 

Bottom line is that if you want a dog that can do IPO or anything else, go with a breeder that is successful in that venue with their own dogs. Not a breeder that imports a titled dog and then is unable to even title the dog again and just uses it for a back yard ATM machine. Avoid breeders that knock the sport that you want to do or make claims that they can do it. I would say the proof is in the pudding, simply show me that you can do it and not talk just talk about it. And I don't mean in their back yard, _there are a lot of 300 point IPO dogs in breeders back yards_ that would fall apart on a real trial field. Which is why they never leave their back yard.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Marco
delupussaevus.com: Home
https://www.proteck9.com/about-us/

I don't think you can go wrong here.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

crittersitter said:


> I've seen some beauties here. https://www.facebook.com/DDRGermanShepherds/timeline They are in my area but I am currently full here...Good luck.




What is the criteria you use to recommend this breeder for a potential IPO dog? Have you a dog you are training from them? Do you have dogs in your IPO club from this kennel? Do you see these breeders training and trialing dogs from their 2nd - 5th or 6th generations?

People come here with specific needs and questions.....there are lots of gorgeous websites with pretty puppies....I don't even need to look at the link to know this is not going to be a breeder that is breeding for solid IPO titlable puppies.......

I don't have a problem with DDR lines, given you use them appropriately, wisely and have experience with them.....but when recommending a breeder - look at the criteria the poster has cited.


Lee


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Probably the best thing to do is visit the IPO club, watch the dogs work, and ask about where people bought their puppies. Visit a few clubs if you can. If you like what you see, pursue that breeder or lines. Lots of dogs who look great on video are not for me at all- I like a thinking dog that is not frantic, too twitchy, and is social. For females, males can be harder, but I like the female to be open, confident, and friendly. It's hard to discern what the dog is like to live with and to train if all you watch are the breeder's IPO trial videos. 

I followed the breeder of my current pup for several years, and was in contact for a long time before I asked about a pup from a breeding. At that point, I knew what I was getting, and have been very happy with my pup, and her potential for work/sport. So far, she's been nothing but excellent and surpassed my expectations (with a wee bit of puppy stubborness, but let's face it like owner like dog). 

Make doubly sure you are clear on the breeder's definitions of things like "social" and "clear-headed". The catch-phrases might mean one thing on the sport field, and another on the hiking trail. 

Also, decide what kind of dog you want and what you really want to do with your dog. IPO is a ton of work, I finally am in a place where I can afford the time and money to title my pup. It's a lot of work and time and thoughtful training- every day from puppyhood. If you don't want to do IPO that is totally fine, by far most GSD owners do not even know what IPO is, let alone title in it, but I'd still get the BEST quality pup you can find, out of a good breeder who raises her pups with love and thoughtful socialization and has produced dogs that you like and could live with. It's hopefully a 10-15 year long investment, choose wisely! 

There is nothing wrong with choosing a dog partly on appearance- if you like a certain coloring, that's fine just make sure you check all the other boxes as well. I personally like a pretty dog, with a certain look and markings, and that did factor into the breeding I selected. But I made sure everything else was in place, first.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Muskeg said:


> Probably the best thing to do is visit the IPO club, watch the dogs work, and ask about where people bought their puppies. Visit a few clubs if you can. If you like what you see, pursue that breeder or lines. Lots of dogs who look great on video are not for me at all- I like a thinking dog that is not frantic, too twitchy, and is social. For females, males can be harder, but I like the female to be open, confident, and friendly. It's hard to discern what the dog is like to live with and to train if all you watch are the breeder's IPO trial videos.


This advice is given on here a lot, and it's solid. See the dogs in person, determine what type of dog a given breeder is actually producing. I will just add one caution, I recently visited a PSA club here because I wanted to learn more about the sport. What I found was a club that for all intents and purposes was A breeder blatantly flogging HER dogs. Less about the sport, or dogs in general, then her specific dogs and when I asked about a particular dog that I really did like it was totally brushed off because it wasn't her dog. So make sure that you aren't seeing just one breeders dogs. If you are find another club.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Jax08 said:


> Marco
> delupussaevus.com: Home
> https://www.proteck9.com/about-us/
> 
> I don't think you can go wrong here.


Cassidy's Mom has a female from one of Marco's males (bred from a different breeder).

I don't know Marco, but am very good friends with his business partner.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Sabis mom said:


> What I found was a club that for all intents and purposes was A breeder blatantly flogging HER dogs. Less about the sport, or dogs in general, then her specific dogs and when I asked about a particular dog that I really did like it was totally brushed off because it wasn't her dog. So make sure that you aren't seeing just one breeders dogs. If you are find another club.



that's everywhere. I see it online all the time too.


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