# How do you handle it when your dogs scuffle? I need advice.



## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I need some advice. My lab is always starting trouble with my GSD. The lab will go underneath my GSD and bite his hotspot (he has skin troubles and has one hot spot after another) then the GSD will start to beat up the lab. My GSD pins the lab to the ground and bites his mouth until the lab whimpers. I always intervene at this point and tell my GSD to release him, only for the lab to go right back under him and bite him again. There is never blood drawn by either of them. I know it would be simple if I could get the lab to stop biting the GSD but he goes under him quick as a wink, before I can stop him.

I am now wondering if it would be terrible for me to just let it go and let them settle it between themselves. I am exhausted from breaking them up repeatedly and the last 2 days have been ridiculous. I am not sure if I fail to intervene if my GSD would seriously hurt my lab. Anybody who's dogs act like this please tell me how you handle it. As I type this I am having to break up yet another scuffle.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would intervene when your lab even "Thinks" of bugging the gsd. 

I would keep the lab on a long line or leash in the house, and control him with that.

I wouldn't let them duke it out, it sounds like the gsd is getting fed up with his behavior and yeah he may seriously hurt your lab.


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## N Smith (Aug 25, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I would intervene when your lab even "Thinks" of bugging the gsd.
> 
> I would keep the lab on a long line or leash in the house, and control him with that.
> 
> I wouldn't let them duke it out, it sounds like the gsd is getting fed up with his behavior and yeah he may seriously hurt your lab.


Agreed!

You are allowing a dog who is obviously in pain to be bullied - and he will only tolerate it for so long before he gets rid of the problem for good.

Be proactive and keep the lab away - if the lab even thinks about looking at the hot spot - he should be corrected/redirected by YOU, not the other dog.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I would intervene when your lab even "Thinks" of bugging the gsd.
> 
> I would keep the lab on a long line or leash in the house, and control him with that.
> 
> I wouldn't let them duke it out, it sounds like the gsd is getting fed up with his behavior and yeah he may seriously hurt your lab.


That is a good idea, to put the lab on a lead. I had my son take the lab into his room for an hour to separate them and just let him back out and he isn't bothering the GSD right now but I will try the leash on him if he starts up again-which I am sure that he will.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

When I first got Lucky we had Daisy and Dodger. Dodger hated male dogs but due to a variety of issues we felt we had to keep Lucky.Dodger and Lucky were kept seperated. I sucked at breaking them up and Daisy bc i was upset joined the fray. Dodger did stuff w/ us and Lucky outside b/c he was kept on a short leash. We survived. I have had to break up Lucky and Daisy over the years. As Daisy got older Lucky will bully so I supervise if Lucky wont move hes put into a down and Daisy can move I supervise feeding and watch them . Im lucky w/ Lucky as he redirects. No redirection worked w/ Dodger but if on leash he wouldnt attack. Sounds like the lab needs to learn doggy manners.Is he a young dog the lab? I think Jakoda's idea is a good one.Daisy atacked Lucky one day coming out of the groomers. Jon our friend took them and Lucky went into the van first and Daisy got in and went nuts ,Jon had to get a groomer out to get Lucky out of the car and Daisy lifted her lip at Jon . We made a trip that day to get the Lucky rather then take the chance on them in the car. That night everything was ok.I hate it when they get into it it always scares me.Good Luck


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

I know our situations are slightly different but when our GSD first started bugging our cattle dog we were given the advice (bad advice) that after a couple of scuffles you should just let them settle it and they'll work it out. We did, blood was drawn, and now they hate each other. They'll tolerate each other if both my boyfriend and I are present and can each control a dog but it's not a fun life. I sometimes wonder if we'd done things differently from the beginning if things would be different between them... I would take Jakoda's and N.Smith's advice.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> When I first got Lucky we had Daisy and Dodger. Dodger hated male dogs but due to a variety of issues we felt we had to keep Lucky.Dodger and Lucky were kept seperated. I sucked at breaking them up and Daisy bc i was upset joined the fray. Dodger did stuff w/ us and Lucky outside b/c he was kept on a short leash. We survived. I have had to break up Lucky and Daisy over the years. As Daisy got older Lucky will bully so I supervise if Lucky wont move hes put into a down and Daisy can move I supervise feeding and watch them . Im lucky w/ Lucky as he redirects. No redirection worked w/ Dodger but if on leash he wouldnt attack. Sounds like the lab needs to learn doggy manners.Is he a young dog the lab? I think Jakoda's idea is a good one.Daisy atacked Lucky one day coming out of the groomers. Jon our friend took them and Lucky went into the van first and Daisy got in and went nuts ,Jon had to get a groomer out to get Lucky out of the car and Daisy lifted her lip at Jon . We made a trip that day to get the Lucky rather then take the chance on them in the car. That night everything was ok.I hate it when they get into it it always scares me.Good Luck


The lab is 2 yo, which is a guestimate because he is a rescue dog and we got him a year and a half ago when he was about 6-8 months old according to our vets best guess. 

The dogs do like each other, they lay near each other-they spend a lot of time playing together so I am not sure why the lab has decided to bother him recently. I injured my back so getting up and down has been very difficult for me so I am not sure if this has anything to do with it but probably so because they haven't been exercised well in about a week because I simply can't get around right now.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> The lab is 2 yo, which is a guestimate because he is a rescue dog and we got him a year and a half ago when he was about 6-8months old according to our vets best guess.
> 
> The dogs do like each other, they lay near each other-they spend a lot of time playing together so I am not sure why the lab has decided to bother him recently. I injured my back so getting up and down has been very difficult for me so I am not sure if this has anything to do with it but probably so because they haven't been exercised well in about a week because I simply can't get around right now.


Your GSD has had some issues w/ pain could this be "I wanna be pack leader" on the labs part sensing weakness. Lucky as Daisy has gotten more sedate and less mobile is a often a bully. I stay on him. He has never drawn blood but Im almost positive he is leader of the pack now. Does your Lab play w/ any other adult dogs does he have issues with them? Labs also take forever to grow up so could this be adolescence extended version. I agree about the not letting them fight it out. sounds like no matter what is causing it the way to stop it is the leash and seperation like you did.Can your son excercise them while your off your feet ?


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Your GSD has had some issues w/ pain could this be "I wanna be pack leader" on the labs part sensing weakness. Lucky as Daisy has gotten more sedate and less mobile is a often a bully. I stay on him. He has never drawn blood but Im almost positive he is leader of the pack now. Does your Lab play w/ any other adult dogs does he have issues with them? Labs also take forever to grow up so could this be adolescence extended version. I agree about the not letting them fight it out. sounds like no matter what is causing it the way to stop it is the leash and seperation like you did.Can your son excercise them while your off your feet ?


My son takes the lab on some walks but he can't handle the GSD-the GSD is likes to chase cars and greatly out weighs my son so I don't want him dragging him out in front of a car.

IDK about the lab trying to be pack leader, my GSD has been to the vet about 10x this year for hotspots and just got off an antibiotic right now for them and is still on a steroid so this is an ongoing condition that he has. He doesn't act in pain from them either, he is his normal self. The only time he has pain is if they get infected. I don't think the lab is trying to be pack leader, my GSD is very dominant and always makes sure that he is first all the time so I don't think the lab would imagine to try to oust him. I think it may be just too much pent up energy. In addition to my back it has been raining for 3 days straight and my backyard is a mud pit so its pretty much been straight in and out for them.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Yea bored dogs w/ energy to burn that will do it. What's the saying Idle hands devils handiwork. I hope you feel better soon and it dries up for all of us in Ohio.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Daisy&Lucky's Mom said:


> Yea bored dogs w/ energy to burn that will do it. What's the saying Idle hands devils handiwork. I hope you feel better soon and it dries up for all of us in Ohio.


Thank you fellow Ohioan! Lets keep our fingers crossed for dry weather. I just noticed that I didn't answer your question. I had a dog over to play once but the lab wouldn't stop bothering him and since the other dog was much smaller it wasn't good. He (the lab) generally doesn't get along well with other dogs and will try to fight them but has always done pretty good with our GSD until now. Now the GSD has flipped the coin and is trying to start trouble with the lab. I guess it must be boredom and pent up energy.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Warning, this is probably too dumb to even bother with but it works like magic here. 

Bailey likes to grab the Shiba by her collar and he'll drag her if allowed. I can't STAND this behavior. Roughhousing, goofing off, ok -- but no collar grabbing.. no. 

So as soon as Bails tries it, he gets a strong squirt of water on his shoulder blades. Shuts him right down. He'll go back to playing, but he'll stay away from the collar. I've tried to be very consistent, even sneaky, in that I don't necessarily want him to know *I* delivered the squirt - just that it's gonna come hehe - and this is becoming less of an issue all the time.

I'm sure some dogs wouldn't even register a lousy water squirt, but Bails sure does.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

chelle said:


> Warning, this is probably too dumb to even bother with but it works like magic here.
> 
> Bailey likes to grab the Shiba by her collar and he'll drag her if allowed. I can't STAND this behavior. Roughhousing, goofing off, ok -- but no collar grabbing.. no.
> 
> ...


With my back problem this may also be an excellent solution, definitely worth a try. Thanks for the idea.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

We have employed squirt bottles in situations where our dogs would not quit barking, because they hate water. It works well and often I just have to show it to them.

I agree with others. Don't even let it get started and also they are probably bored so acting out, stop it before it starts, and prevent


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

My GSD and my Golden (both males) will get vocal and shoulder each other when they are both around me or hubby. This could easily escalate. We don't allow it...period. They both get into trouble. They get one warning, then _we_ become reactive. Now, all I have to do is hear them and I can say, "Boys!" and they both go lay down like they are in time out. 

The water might work, but I'd remember to give some type of command, like 'quit' before you provide a reaction from you. The moment your Lab hunts for the hot spot, I'd correct.


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## MamaTank (Nov 27, 2011)

Mine haven't really gotten to the point where they are *really* fighting. But my other dog is a 10 month old APBT. I live a life in which a "crate and rotate" life may become a reality. If Keira (APBT) were to become DA, then we would have no choice but to crate and rotate. For now, she is okay. 
But my point was this: occasionally, in a bout of puppyish exuberance, Keira will annoy Caesar to the point of him letting her know she's gone too far. He'll snap, and she'll think it's a game, and continue. I always separate them (usually Keira goes in her crate for a time out) until both have had some time to chill out, which can take anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes. Then they are allowed to play together again. 
Sometimes we don't even need to separate, just redirect. Offering a much loved toy is always a good way to distract the bully from the one being bullied.


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

Lilie said:


> My GSD and my Golden (both males) will get vocal and shoulder each other when they are both around me or hubby. This could easily escalate. We don't allow it...period. They both get into trouble. They get one warning, then _we_ become reactive. Now, all I have to do is hear them and I can say, "Boys!" and they both go lay down like they are in time out.
> 
> The water might work, but I'd remember to give some type of command, like 'quit' before you provide a reaction from you. The moment your Lab hunts for the hot spot, I'd correct.


Thanks for reminding me about associating a command with the squirt. I will make sure to do that.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't use the squirt for tiffs or fighting. A "That's ENOUGH!!" is about enough.
We keep triggers put up (plenty of toys so they don't feel like fighting over that) I only give treats when some are outside and I can control what's going on. If I hear a growl, it's the "THAT's ENOUGH!" and be done with it. If there's an instigator they may be removed for a few minutes (put in a crate or another room).


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

When we had two dogs in the home, and also when I've been watching friends' dogs, I would try to stop scuffles before they even started by making sure that one dog was not allowed to annoy the other. Play was fine, but if one was clearly not interested or not wanting to play, I would separate them.

When I had both Abby and Ronja, what helped a lot was that I trained them to go to their pillows, so if they started to fuss with each other, I would send them to their respective pillows and have them stay, usually with a chew toy of some sort so they'd have something to do besides annoy one another.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Germanshepherdlova said:


> Thanks for reminding me about associating a command with the squirt. I will make sure to do that.


I admit....sorta takes the fun out of the suprise attack! But I think in the long run teaching the dog to leave the other dog alone is the outcome you are looking for.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

The gsd is making the lab submit. That's why the lab allows it and whimpers. The whimpering is the labs aknowledgement of submission. That's also why the gsd isn't drawig blood. Also why the lab doesn't stop. One doesn't go underneath another dog it wants to fight. He's playing/harassing.

Dog fights you have to worry about are generally quiet (compared to most scuffles), bc they are too busy trying to kill each other to bother with scarey noises. It's past posturing at this point, and it's fighting.

Having two females that scuffle sometimes, and have fought twice, and a dominant male that does what you described to both, it's actually interesting to see the differences live


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## Ucdcrush (Mar 22, 2004)

If this is the same dog that wont release the ball/frisbee, then he needs more NILIF. Make sure everyone including your son is reinforcing the hierarchy around there.Maybe put him in a crate instead of your sons room (sons room doesn't sound like "punishment" to me).


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