# Price of a pup/dog



## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

What should be a minimum price of a 18month GSD with SchHA or SchH1or IPO1 title, assuming that I am not interested in seiger type titled dogs in its pedigree (I am purely interested in working titles) ?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

A trained dog? I would guess around $5k


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

And that is "IF" you can get such a dog. Very good dogs are rarely for sale.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Titled dogs are sold for a reason.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Smithie86 said:


> Titled dogs are sold for a reason.


Can you explore this statement some more?


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## scarfish (Apr 9, 2013)

why would anyone other than a government agency want to dish out the cash for an already working trained dog. i have no interest in any working titles but if i did i would want to do the training myself with a pro there to work my bond up with the dog. maybe i'm wrong. IDK, i don't have a hot rod but would think building a hot rod would be much more enjoyable than simply buying one.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

They are sold for two reasons: The dog isn't good enough or so much money was offered that the owner decided it was worth it, usually the former is the main reason.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Scarfish, not everyone wants puppies. Puppies involve risk. A young dog, a dog around 18 months, maybe with an IPO1 (though at that age it was most likely thrown on the dog), can be tested. The joint health will be known and there will be less risk that the dog doesn't grow up to have what one wants for sport, breeding, other areas of work, etc.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

*Price of a young*

Ok gaving trained (what ever little i could) my young pup Duke I agree that one may not may not easily sell a Trained, Titled dog unless offered a very high price.

So can I expect to get a young gsd pup above nine months, with parents having basic working titles? I do not expect the parents to be great seiger type show winners. 

I have seen a few adds in pedigree.com. But I just want to know has any one here procured such a dog as i mentioned above? Will USD 1200 be a reasonable prize?

Best Santanu


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

$1200 is low for a puppy, 8-10 weeks, from titled/health tested parents. You may be able to find one from working lines for that price, but you'll have to do some serious hunting and research to do so. $1500-$2000 is more the average price range for such pups. Show lines tend to be significantly more than working lines, even at the puppy stage.

An older pup, 9 months or over, and assuming the pup has been socialized, started some basic training, has hip/elbow prelims done is going to cost more. Up to double the puppy price. Unless there is something wrong with the pup, such as x-rays reveal it won't pass certification when old enough, the prices on adolescent/green dogs go up as the dog gets older and more work is put into it. They don't go down.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

The dog you’ve described…I’d expect to be less than $1200. I expect an 8 week old puppy to cost about that much, and at that point, I’m able to train it exactly how I want and do what I want with it. A 9 month old puppy…should have basic obedience/manners, but I’m not sure what kind and how they were taught. You can very quickly ruin a dog by putting a lot of pressure on that dog in order to get it to “behave” and I wouldn’t trust someone not to do that. At that age…temperament and health is still an unknown, so I see no reason to pay a premium for that lack of information. And I really don’t think I need to compensate a breeder/trainer for potty training/teaching simple manners because it’s something most people can do fairly easily.

You also risk that this dog was a kennel dog his/her whole life and might not have any manners or be house broken. If a dog wasn’t house broken by this point, it won’t be the easiest thing to train because it has just went whenever it needed to in the kennel.

If this is a "green dog" and has had more advanced skills taught to it (started in protection/tracking/competitive obedience) it might be worth that much if not more.


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thank u all for the fruitful discussion. So I guess following is the summary

Either a 8 week or so pup from working titled parents (which I may get close to USD 1200) OR adult (18 month or above) hip/elbow cleared and basic obedience trained dog. The later will cost more, but safer. Nothing in between.

Also another problem in importing a 8 week pup from a foreign breeder is that I do not get to pick the pup from the litter or meet its parents personally.

Also I wonder how safe/risky is it to have the pup in a plane for 12 to 20 hours more (depending on whether it is flying from US or EU)?

So it is not just money but there are several other hassles in getting a pup from a oversea breeder.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

martemchik said:


> The dog you’ve described…I’d expect to be less than $1200. I expect an 8 week old puppy to cost about that much, and at that point, I’m able to train it exactly how I want and do what I want with it. A 9 month old puppy…should have basic obedience/manners, but I’m not sure what kind and how they were taught. You can very quickly ruin a dog by putting a lot of pressure on that dog in order to get it to “behave” and I wouldn’t trust someone not to do that. At that age…temperament and health is still an unknown, so I see no reason to pay a premium for that lack of information. And I really don’t think I need to compensate a breeder/trainer for potty training/teaching simple manners because it’s something most people can do fairly easily.
> 
> You also risk that this dog was a kennel dog his/her whole life and might not have any manners or be house broken. If a dog wasn’t house broken by this point, it won’t be the easiest thing to train because it has just went whenever it needed to in the kennel.
> 
> If this is a "green dog" and has had more advanced skills taught to it (started in protection/tracking/competitive obedience) it might be worth that much if not more.


Well, what you may "expect" and reality are 2 very different things. At the 9+ month old stage that the OP mentioned, temperament and health are far more easily and accurately evaluated than as a young pup. Hip/elbow prelims will typically be done. And usually some sort of basic socialization/training. And you WILL pay more for that than for a puppy. At least when dealing with legitimate breeders/trainers/brokers. To you, Max, such a dog may not be worth more than a puppy, but to many people it is and the market price reflects that. The prelims, which may have cost several hundred dollars, and can answer that huge "crap shoot" issue of younger puppies, alone demands a significantly higher price.

Also, the definition of a "green dog" is one that has had some basic foundation/imprinting only. Not real training. A green dog certainly does not have "advanced skills". That would be a trained dog, not a green one. 

Bottom line is that the more time and money that someone puts into the dog, the more the dog costs. So a titled dog costs more than a trained but not yet titled one, a trained one costs more than a green one, an older pup/young adolescent costs more than a young pup. Provided there is nothing truly wrong with the dog of course. If there is something wrong with the dog, then yes one can find an older dog for a low price. This shouldn't be discounted as often what is "wrong" for the seller may be a non issue for many buyers.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Chris, I know what you're saying. But I see a lot more "returned" pups of that age than dogs that were held back by breeders in order to train and see what they turned into. Most of the older dogs I have known about, are breeder returns that need a new home.

I think that OP needs to provide a lot more information to truly get better advice on if the dog is worth it or not.

OP, you also have to really trust the breeder/trainer. I have seen too many shifty breeders that market returned dogs, or failed dogs as something that they aren't. So...saying the dog would make a great "such and such prospect" when in reality it is just a dog that didn't work out for one reason or another. Importing a puppy from overseas is very risky. If you don’t have connections, don’t have someone you can trust, there is a very big chance of getting a subpar dog. I’ve heard it on more than one occasion that the Germans don’t typically send their “pick of the litter” puppies to the United States. They keep their best breeding stock for themselves. So unless you know someone that can help you, the risks are much higher.

I also suggest having someone that knows really try to evaluate the dog. If you can get videos that would work. The thing you have to understand is that even the most basic “competitive obedience” or basic bite work, will look very good/cool to the novice eye. People that know what to look for, can easily see beyond the flash and the “cool” that a novice person looking at a simple protection video will focus on.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I guess after seeing and hearing stories of how "novice" people that don't really know what they're looking for get taken advantage of...my thought is that a person like OP is more likely to get taken advantage of rather than run into a breeder that is truthful with them and does deserve to get more money for the older dog.

Unfortunately, even the slightest bit of obedience that many people involved in dog sport can reach, totally impresses people that don't believe they are capable of such a thing and will pay more for that then they probably should.

Or a bigger thing is showing a young dog working in total prey, clearly barking/biting in prey, and passing it off as the world's greatest protection dog...well, of course the barking/biting looks amazing if you've never seen it before or have any idea of how to get that out of a dog...so why wouldn't the people pay a premium for that?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Buyer beware as in everything. That has nothing to do with what Chris is saying and does not change the fact that young dogs/older puppies generally bring more because there is more invested in them, less unknowns, than 8 week old puppies.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Ironically, the two dogs I've got as young adults and sought out specifically for training/sport ended up being given to me for free, but yeah, plenty of reasons to not get a puppy!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

lies, why were they given away ?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

TEZPUR1976 said:


> Thank u all for the fruitful discussion. So I guess following is the summary
> 
> Either a 8 week or so pup from working titled parents (which I may get close to USD 1200) OR adult (18 month or above) hip/elbow cleared and basic obedience trained dog. The later will cost more, but safer. Nothing in between.
> 
> ...



You can get a working line pup for 1200 where only one parent is titled....rarely from a pair with full (IPO3, KKL) credentials....that is going to be 1800 - 2000 pretty much. A 'green' dog with promise is probably 4-6 K, a titled dog 5-15K depending on if the dog is really any good or was just pushed through a title so she could be sold....quite common on the PDB IMO....

As far as picking your pup....most knowledgeable breeders here do NOT let you pick pups....unless all they care about is collecting money and not particularly concerned about where the pup ends up or how appropriate a match you are to the pup. It is also very common for breeders to use "outside" males, thus even if you pick up the puppy, you will only see the mother, not the father.

Flying in a European pup is going to cost 2x the price of the pup.

Flying a pup/dog from Europe is very very common....few have problems....no guarantees - but no guarantees that you won't get hit by a car 2 miles from home either.

A novice buying from Europe is really taking a higher risk....I can think of quite a few on here who got sold problem pups - from coats that they were told were NOT - to major temperament issues from supposedly "good" litters/lines in Europe....and have seen some real problem pups arrive from good kennels....one friend imported a pup from a super litter...in the photos, there was a runt that was always last/on bottom/getting picked on...she told the breeder she did NOT want that pup...guess what pup she got? Yepper - runt who ended up badly dysplastic....replacement pup had one of the weakest temperaments I ever saw.

Look around in the US, find a few breeders who seem to be successful and then initiate a relationship to see if you can get a pup that is suitable for your needs from someone you feel comfortable with.

Lee


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## TEZPUR1976 (Jun 29, 2014)

Thank you for the detailed guidance.

Best

Santanu


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## Guy9999 (Aug 25, 2014)

wolfstraum said:


> You can get a working line pup for 1200 where only one parent is titled....rarely from a pair with full (IPO3, KKL) credentials....that is going to be 1800 - 2000 pretty much. A 'green' dog with promise is probably 4-6 K, a titled dog 5-15K depending on if the dog is really any good or was just pushed through a title so she could be sold....quite common on the PDB IMO....
> 
> As far as picking your pup....most knowledgeable breeders here do NOT let you pick pups....unless all they care about is collecting money and not particularly concerned about where the pup ends up or how appropriate a match you are to the pup. It is also very common for breeders to use "outside" males, thus even if you pick up the puppy, you will only see the mother, not the father.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Yr information is very helpful. There is a risk to buying a puppy but there are no 'International Puppy Lemon Laws' so buying from Europe no doubt has way more risk.


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## Tiffseagles (May 12, 2010)

I think it totally depends on your area and the breeder you are looking at. Our dog is out of Sch III parents (sire and dam). He cost $1000 as an 8 week old.

However, he was a risk and despite having clear parents, he developed HD. That's why puppies, generally, cost less.


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

why are west german showline pups more expensive then ?


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

From a non-professional opinion, it's because for working line there is no conformation show. If the dog is built to work, it competes. Even if there are faults in the dog's structure it can still compete. It is up to the individual dog and trainer. it also is more a temperament level for working line.

For conformation showing, every little detail counts literally from head to toe, and from tail to nose. They have to be born and grow up like that. No amount of training is going to change the structure of a dog for conformation. And as far as temperament goes, as long as it doesn't bite the judge, it's in.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

It is very rare for a WGSL breeder to train and title their own dogs, they usually get sent to Germany. That is costly, actually, might be cheaper than if you add up what someone spends to get their own dog trained and titled, but it hurts more when you are paying for it all at once. It's possibly they arbitrarily cost more because of the prestige.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

They are, for the most part, in demand and people are willing to pay crazy high prices for them. VA (German Sieger) can bring well over 6 figures when sold to China, Japan, USA. I have a friend that breeds show lines and those deep red plushy huge pups sell for big money to pet homes even out of untitled dogs. She has considered doing a breeding but is hesitant because while the temperaments will be outstanding the pups will be more tan and not red enough. She is afraid she won't be able to sell them. Crazy.


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## Guy9999 (Aug 25, 2014)

' a titled dog 5-15K depending on if the dog is really any good or was just pushed through a title so she could be sold' [Wolfstraum].

What does 'pushed' mean?
You see plenty of them at Pedigree Database?


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