# Building tug and bite drive



## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I just got tugs, and would love if my boy paid attention to them. He obviously loves tearing at things, bites cardboard, bones, the flying squirrel; he takes his sheepskin pillow to town, but that's too large (1/3 his length!) to even consider playing with it.

He will tug on a rolled up towel, stuffed animal, or bandana for a while until he gives up; Maybe I am doing something wrong here, but if we are tugging with what ever, and I reward him by giving it to him, then he'll gnaw it like a bone to get to the center! So I don't want to reward him like that, because he will and does eat anything he can gnaw off.

He is only mildly interested in the jute, or linen even, and would rather bite at the handles (he also likes his leash for this reason) he's already torn one handle in half, and I got them last night! 

Do I let him play with it first? But, then the gnawing issue arises again. Or that this should be strictly 1 on 1 reward for being engaged with training? He doesn't even seem to want to do that. Take away all other toys and then out come the tug? 

I'm watching Leerburg videos on bite drive, and I can't wait until I can apply some of these principles tonight. But I'd like to hear your methods, as well. How do you build tug drive?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Tugs are for playing with you -- you bring them out, you play, then they get put away. They are not made or intended to be chew toys.
If he needs to be tempted, drag the tug along the ground.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

jeliya said:


> I just got tugs, and would love if my boy paid attention to them. He obviously loves tearing at things, bites the **** out of cardboard, bones, the flying squirrel; he takes his sheepskin pillow to town, but that's too large (1/3 his length!) to even consider playing with it.
> 
> He will tug on a rolled up towel, stuffed animal, or bandana for a while until he gives up; Maybe I am doing something wrong here, but if we are tugging with what ever, and I reward him by giving it to him, then he'll gnaw it like a bone to get to the center! So I don't want to reward him like that, because he will and does eat anything he can gnaw off.
> 
> ...



You might be trying too much too soon. 

A couple of things to start a young puppy:
1. You can attach the tug to a leash or flirt pole, and wiggle it around on the ground - if the pup has some drive, that'll drive him wild
2. Let him win, a lot. At least until he enjoys it. At first you can tease him with it, shaking it around and moving it fast, and when he grabs onto it just let him win, let him have it and encourage him to come back to play some more. Later, you can really tug with him. If he starts chewing on it take it away, and try to tug again. 
3. How old is the pup? It could be that he's teething - so be careful bc his gums might be sore and biting hard and pulling might hurt
4. Does he fetch? you can start by playing fetch with the tug and when he's really excited tug for a little bit, out him (if you can), and fetch again
5. BEST ADVICE I CAN GIVE YOU RIGHT HERE: find a trainer, someone who is involved in some dog sports - be it schutzhund, flyball, agility, any kind of dog sport where drive and excitement for the work is encouraged. They can show you how to play with your dog correctly.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

Oh, he is 6 months and seems to be past his major teething. A few canines haven't fallen out, but other than that...
He does not fetch naturally at all, but I am slowly building this up. Ignores most balls, he goes nuts over frisbees and the flying squirrel, and will absolutely destroy them. So I've got to take them away fairly quick (or do I?) , but treated when I do, or when he brings it back, but he loses interest after a few throws.

Still working on basic obedience, but will absolutely look into dog sports further down the line, like winter.


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## gaia_bear (May 24, 2012)

Our pups are about the same age, she'll be 6 months on Sunday. I started taking her to schutzhund when she was about 3 months and at the time had 0 interest in tugging etc, after some drive building exercises she will try to play tug with just about any toy so getting into a sport at this point if it's what you have in mind for the future may be benefical. 

As others have mentioned bring the tug to life..as my the TD at schutzhund put it "a dead bunny is no fun"..either by dragging it on the group or attaching it to a flirt pole.. if jute are linen aren't successful, try something different, Gaia goes nuts for leather. 

I also keep my tugs away so they aren't confused w/ chew toys.

Edit: If he keeps giving up, keep the sessions short at first and end on a happy note. Don't let him take the tug to chew, let him "win" by taking the tug from you and then reclaim it. This is also a great way for teaching the "out" command.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

jeliya said:


> Oh, he is 6 months and seems to be past his major teething. A few canines haven't fallen out, but other than that...
> He does not fetch naturally at all, but I am slowly building this up. Ignores most balls, he goes nuts over frisbees and the flying squirrel, and will absolutely destroy them. So I've got to take them away fairly quick (or do I?) , but treated when I do, or when he brings it back, but he loses interest after a few throws.
> 
> Still working on basic obedience, but will absolutely look into dog sports further down the line, like winter.


In that case, 2 throws is enough. 2 throws, then take it away. Finish the session when he's still into it


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Then wait until all the adult teeth are in and established. Tug while teething can mess up the alignment.


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## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

jeliya said:


> Oh, he is 6 months and seems to be past his major teething. A few canines haven't fallen out, but other than that...
> He does not fetch naturally at all, but I am slowly building this up. Ignores most balls, he goes nuts over frisbees and the flying squirrel, and will absolutely destroy them. So I've got to take them away fairly quick (or do I?) , but treated when I do, or when he brings it back, but he loses interest after a few throws.
> 
> Still working on basic obedience, but will absolutely look into dog sports further down the line, like winter.


IMO, you should join a SchH club...they will be of more help. if you're interested in doing the sport now is a good time to join.
In addition to OB, a good trainer will also instruct you how to properly play with tug toys, etc. for your pup at this young age.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I spoke *way *too soon. He goes nuts for tug when he is feeling it:wild:

Even started introducing obedience already... mostly to slow him down!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)




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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I like those Ellis videos a lot, but they are a little vague, just wanted to clear the air on some things, maybe some of concern? I absolutely want him to think this is play time and nothing serious. I am not certain if he has the sensibilities to do real bite work.

So, he seems to enjoy the the french linen and jute, and especially when he is very excited; 

He seems to go straight for the handles a lot of the time, and unless I specifically direct his bite towards the actual tug, he'll happily take the handle. I have a two-handled french linen, and I roll up the second handle to the tug, to give him a little more motivation. I hope that's not a problem going forward... He's nipped my hand a few times going for the handles... 

Some times, he will get growly about tugging, could be when I'm trying to get him "out" (i say ENOUGH! :laugh, or could be during a tug. I usually have a treat ready for outs, but if he starts growling, should I just DROP EVERYTHING and turn away, and not reward him even if he does out? Or wait stationary until he lets go? I don't think it's a real "back off" growl, but then again, he's very quiet in general, except for a lot of whining.

On that note, his "out" isn't 100%. Same thing with his fetch, he'll grab it and want to play with it (tears and chews the crap outta it, really), I think that's normal - please correct me if I am wrong. I am using treats especially for fetch and out. But how can I tell the threshold of "THATS MINE!" versus "LETS PLAY!"? How can I control the toy in the best way without frustrating him to the point that he'd think I am taking it from him? In general, he allows me to take really anything without protest, even food, bones, squeeks etc.

I don't want to raise a biter, hoarder, or selfish dog here.  One trainer I use is pretty anti-schutzhund as well, and isn't this the basis of SH?

ETA: the only SH club around, they want me to board him for 3 weeks - $800 on top of that! - and sounds like only basic training - "no", basic ob, housebreaking... not sure what they are going for. I won't be using them any time soon, unless they change their tone.


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

Hopefully on topic here about Tugs... are they a good thing or a bad thing? My father is very old school... and he says Tugs are BAD.... because a full grown male is goign to win Tug ALOT.

And that teaches him he's more dominant than you.

But I read all this stuff that tugs are fantastic rewards and playing for accomplishing things.

(And OP if I'm derailing your thread about Tugs tell me I'll take it else where!)


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

TrentL said:


> Hopefully on topic here about Tugs... are they a good thing or a bad thing? My father is very old school... and he says Tugs are BAD.... because a full grown male is goign to win Tug ALOT.
> 
> And that teaches him he's more dominant than you.
> 
> ...


Not derailing, in fact I support your input. I have heard this plenty plenty PLENTY! But, given everyone else here does it... and so do many great trainers... I do think it's all how you teach it. What I have guessed from what I've researched, tug, isn't a "win" thing, it's a play between us, much like fetch. I am interested in knowing how to know the gray area, if it approaches. I think you're supposed to let them win win and then come back for more tug with you then end at your call?

This is why I wasn't too keen on getting tugs, I'd rather not toe that line if I don't know what's up. But he seems to enjoy it. I do limit his time tugging.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

tug brings in opposition - dog is allowed to win to get confidence. 
your relationship based on other posts is dominating the dog -- 
so the entire relationship needs to be relaxed and reworked , both for giving the dog some praise , and for taking some yof your control out . You can't force him to win . It has nothing to do with any equipment .


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

jeliya said:


> Not derailing, in fact I support your input. I have heard this plenty plenty PLENTY! But, given everyone else here does it... and so do many great trainers... I do think it's all how you teach it. What I have guessed from what I've researched, tug, isn't a "win" thing, it's a play between us, much like fetch. I am interested in knowing how to know the gray area, if it approaches. I think you're supposed to let them win win and then come back for more tug with you then end at your call?
> 
> This is why I wasn't too keen on getting tugs, I'd rather not toe that line if I don't know what's up. But he seems to enjoy it. I do limit his time tugging.


Cool thanks I love reading these things and see how people are doing things. 

I agree that so many people think its a fun game to play and helps builds the dogs confidence. I do know that there will be some issues if I Tug around my father  

Please keep posting on how your tug is going! I get my puppy in 9 days I won't tug much with those little baby teeth but I plan on buying one.

I did do some googling and I'm in the middle of reading some articles (Not sayign they are the best just the first ones I found)

http://www.squidoo.com/playing-tug-with-dogs

http://www.dogtrainingblogger.com/does-tug-of-war-teach-aggression.html


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

carmspack, I do not "force" him to win. How is that even possible? _ *** Removed by MOD *** ) _I lead my dog and expect him to behave the way I lead him, anything else does not get rewarded.

( *** Removed by MOD *** ) 

BACK TO TUGS.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so far the dog is playing with things by himself , prey drive -- when the dog is playing with you there is so much control - seems he just gets into it and then you cut the game short - dog is "growly" OUT , dog puts energy into the game and you want to stop the game turn your back and walk away. You have no faith in the dog's ability so how can you promote "not certain if he has the sensibilities to do real bite work." then on the other hand you don't want a dog " don't want to raise a biter, hoarder, or selfish dog here". Micro managed.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

I am really not sure how those aren't actual concerns. Hoarding, biting, sensibilities... This is a GSD we are talking about here, not a yorkie, and a GSD that I may even consider as a rescue; I have NO basis on his background, his parents, how his future may be, or what his thought process is in thinking during tug when he growls.

Why would I play with a growly dog? Why would I reward that behavior? You reward growling? Is that okay? You reward barking at his convenience, too? I want to know how you and what you reward for. Maybe I could learn a thing or two rather than get called out on what you conceive as my faults as a trainer.

And I never said OUT when he growls, I am asking FEEDBACK on "out" *when* he growls. Seems like you aren't ever reading my posts and just defer back to my so-called "dominance" over him.


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

GoughnutsFLV.flv - YouTube

If you watch the above (A video for those goughnaughts or whatever they are called) a K9 police officer is playing tug with his dog. 

The dog is not growling you can hear him tugging and see his effort but no amount of growling is in there.

Generally what I've done on these boards is post questions, and question the people who answer me with sensible answers or critiques on my thoughts.

The ones who jump to conclusions, or insert their beliefs by "Reading Between" lines (That sometimes don't exist) I just gloss over. 

When it comes to Dogs every trainer out there has an opinion and a method, and alot of them aren't the same! Take what you like from each person and become a good trainer yourself!

In the end its YOUR dog... as long as your not doing weird things or harmful things to your dog, you train him and guide him to what you want out of him. If you don't want him showing agressive behavior (Growling and Barking) then you work on that. I've seen dogs growl in play and dogs growl in fear / aggression, and there is a difference in facial features and body language.

I find here + Google = Some fun answers  And I like to do these googles even though I'm a complete idiot with dogs. 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_stop_your_dog_from_growling
http://3lostdogs.com/no-need-to-overreact-growling-dogs/

Hope those bring some insight  I'll keep checking in to see how the Tug is working out for ya


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Tug play for my male dog is fun( two of my dogs won't tug, they are too inhibited). 

I control the game yet let the dog win often during the session. I only reward a deep bite, the dog should counter if it is a shallow bite. Teaching the out comes a bit later, but it is something to do with out conflict. Either have another toy to tug right after outing or ask firmly for an out and give it back as a reward quickly.
My dog sometimes won't out, so I make him platz to out him if he won't do it on the first command. I don't raise him up by his collar to out him now that he knows what is expected.

As far as chewing or trying to eat the tug/thrash or kill it, have him on a line, prance him around with the tug in his mouth after he's won. Then cradle him under his chin and stroke him down his side. This will create a calmer hold and teach the dog to hold. This is where the lifting the dog from the collar comes in if the dog doesn't out. It isn't conflicting, the dog will eventually let go. I never really did that much with my pup as he outed easily knowing game on was coming if he outed. As he matured, outing was optional for him, so I started commanding platz/outs and it works for us. I never let the dog carry the tug away, if you prance him around, he'll strut his reward, not try to hoard it away.
Growling is usually a sign of insecurity/young dog. work thru it and give your dog more confidence(act like he is really winning when you are tugging with him, then let him win after some back and forth, but let the dog feel he is winning as he backs/ up gaining space)


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

I have a question on the "growling" is it aggressive growling or is it just a GSD being vocal. They're very vocal (especially when playing/excited) and it can be rather shocking (I thought Sasha was being mean when she first did it) if you aren't used to it.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

My dog gets growly when she's really into the tug. I thought that was good? She does it often. I just keep going and sometimes ask her to "out" during those times just to train her to "out" any time I say "out." My dog doesn't hoard or bite as a result of those tug sessions. In fact, because I can get her so excited about it, it becomes a great training tool. I thought GSDs can get growly or vocal when they are high in drive. If I tease her with the tug toy and not let her have it, she can scream.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"Even started introducing obedience already... mostly to slow him down! "
"I wasn't too keen on getting tugs"
"This is a GSD we are talking about here, not a yorkie, "
and dog is growly and basically quiet except that he whines a lot (paraphrased).

statements show dog is inhibited , just gets going and then is stopped - whining is stress response -- your trainer is not comfortable with SchH , are you? (or comfortable with the "breed")


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Genetics win 100% of the time. Building drive is the same, if the dog has it then you can improve it by maybe 10-15% or so by raising him/her the correct way. If the dog does not have it then no matter what you do the dog will still not have it.

So essentially the key is to recognize what the dog brings with him/her genetically then you can work to enhance it a lil bit.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Packen said:


> Genetics win 100% of the time. Building drive is the same, if the dog has it then you can improve it by maybe 10-15% or so by raising him/her the correct way. If the dog does not have it then no matter what you do the dog will still not have it.
> 
> So essentially the key is to recognize what the dog brings with him/her genetically then you can work to enhance it a lil bit.


This.

Prime example - I have been trying to "build/improve" Stark's drive from puppyhood and still to this day (3.5 years old) he doesn't have it.

With Zefra, I have been trying to 'cap' her drive from the beginning.... still, to this day (17 months) it's a battle.... LOL.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> I have a question on the "growling" is it aggressive growling or is it just a GSD being vocal. They're very vocal (especially when playing/excited) and it can be rather shocking (I thought Sasha was being mean when she first did it) if you aren't used to it.


Honestly can't say, he doesn't growl - barely barks too - much at all, so that's why I hesitated when he first did. I don't have much to base it on, can count the times he has growled in my head... but was a quick one, I guess I'll have to hear him out next time.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

carmspack, I do not "force" him to win. How is that even possible? I don't appreciate your input when thinking I "dominate" my dog

yes I did say that -- emphasis on taking some of the control out so that the dog can be more relaxed , so that the dog will dare to win 

"
Genetics win 100% of the time. Building drive is the same, if the dog has it then you can improve it by maybe 10-15% or so by raising him/her the correct way. If the dog does not have it then no matter what you do the dog will still not have it.

So essentially the key is to recognize what the dog brings with him/her genetically then you can work to enhance it a lil bit. " thank you Packen.

with tug it is about winning -- with schutzhund prey drive it is about winning 

minor moves where the dog committs a bit more get rewarded by allowing the dog to win - you always end on a positive high note --


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## TrentL (May 10, 2011)

carmspack said:


> with tug it is about winning --
> 
> minor moves where the dog committs a bit more get rewarded by allowing the dog to win - you always end on a positive high note --


Interesting so reward the more the dog is "into" the game. As long as its not agressive (Hording & Agressive body language) reward it with winning.

I know I do that with my Daughters and my Nephew ALL the time, let them win constantly when we wrestle and play tug of war, I never thought about doing the same with the puppy. (I was more worried about dominance and making sure that tug wasn't used negatively)

BTW Carmspack ... your lack of using quotes makes it really hard to read


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Personally I like to build the retrieve with balls and some folks don't like two ball but I am not sure why exactly but I love it and can play all day with one ball now ..... If you plan on doing bitework, I would think you would already be started with a club even if you have to drive a ways and THAT would be the best option

With the tug...the flirt pole is great. I never had growlies but did / do have a problem with the out. Mainly what was shown to me was make the tug dead (just hold it) if he wont let go and give it back to him as a reward for letting it go. Where it is harder for us is the more intense the tugging the more the dog wants to keep it. I hold the tug, not by the handles because the dog can still make it fight back unless you hold it tight right up by his mouth so he can't thrash it around. Police trainer also taught me a rule of the game - if I hold tug vertical it is off limits, if I present horizontal and give release word, game is on.

Holding him up by the collar until he drops makes him want it even more. I don't like doing that just because I don't like that kind of pressure on the neck.

You also can't be scared of the accidental bite. Everyone I know has had some good ones (not frequent but every once in a while)


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm also going to suggest the flirt pole. This is what my puppy enjoys the most. It's great exercise, it challenges the mind, and it's a good tool for reinforcing learned commands. And is it ever FUN!

A few other ideas I have, relating to this thread:

I don't let my puppy destroy things. I know many others do, so I'm not saying that I'm 'right', but I find that it's a very simple thing to trade up, in terms of sturdiness. A toy being torn apart can be trade for a kong (put some peanut butter in it if your dog doesn't want it at first) and if your dog is tearing at the kong like he's going to chew it up, trade the kong for a real bone. 

As far as growling goes, it's the same as barking - there's so many different barks that mean so many different things. One of my dogs never snarled or lifted his lip, but when we played tug he had a throaty groan that sounded very ferocious. I always wished I could put that sound on cue, it sounded way worse that a bark, lol!

Lastly, don't hold it against someone if they don't understand that tugging is just a game. Even Cesar Milan is holding on to the idea that it makes a dog aggressive - it's in one of his books anyway.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

One thing I am learning is they like the soft squishy things first and at 6 months the gums are still a bit tender. .. we are slowly progressing to harder and smaller tugs but I am not doing bitework and don't have much mentoring in that discipline....for me i just want tug for a reward toy because it is so motivating to the dog (he kept trying to solicit a tug game wiht his balls on string by jumping on me and pushing them at me, so I figured if he wants to tug that bad it would make a great reward)


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Just a general warning about taking things personally and lashing out aggressively at other posters - this is a great thread and would hate to lock it, there is so much good information in here. I think the experienced people here that have and are raising working dogs and IPO/SchH dogs hit the nail on the head about tugging and about certain behaviours while on the tug.

TrentL posted some good articles and videos too - should take some of people's worry about tugging and play growling away (Trent, you are right about tugging with your dog - your Father is wrong - don't tell him that! LOL).

Tugging is a GREAT interactive game for dogs to build confidence and build the bond between owner and dog, but only if done right. The way the OP is doing it, there are too many controls and rules, and the OP is too worried about a six month old puppy becoming 'dominant' and agressive, and takes all the fun out of it for the dog. No wonder pup is not really interested in tugging. Really important if a person is interested in pursuing sport and working venues where drive and bite development is important to do the tugging right, and get guidance from a club or trainer. 

Growling on the tug can be play growl, can be a leakage of prey drive, can be a show of fear (dog is overwhelmed and intimidated by the presence of the handler and growls to appear big and bad). If playing tug for fun, I wouldn't worry about about it, but let the dog win more. If working on bite development - get an expert to observe and give you pointers on what the issue is. 

Biting the tug handle vs. the tug itself: This is common with young dogs - it can be a targeting issue, where the dog just doesn't aim right, or it can be a confidence issue. They can be uncomfortable biting the tug itself, they might not like the size, shape, texture. They might find it too big and intimidating, needing a hard bite to hold (opening the mouth and biting properly is exactly what we try to teach during bite-work foundation work with tugs and playing tug). If you find that your dog is purposely aiming for the handle, and obviously avoiding the tug itself, you will need to set yourself up so that taking the tug is easier and more rewarding than biting the handle. Use your body and the way you hold the tug so that the handle is hard to get, the tug an obvious target. If he gets the tug itself, he wins. If he gets the handle, you out him. 

Reading through the thread though, I strongly urge you to get together with a club, or an experienced trainer and get some guidance, and to pay attention to the insight of experienced working dog people - because there is a lot to doing this properly for bite and drive development - the way you are approaching tugging (your whole philosophy of growling/outing/being in control) is counter-productive to what you are trying to achieve (so agree with Carmen on many points there). 

Also agree with Packen - a lot of it comes down to genetics of the dog, and sometimes no amount of tug play, tug work and prey drive development can turn a dog with no desire to bite and tug into one that does.

And in general for all the posters who play tug just for fun: Don't worry about the growling, and let the dog win: that makes it so much more fun and rewarding for them, and no, it won't turn your dog into a dominant monster - Gryffon is still a sweet, easy dog that defers to my older dog and is very respectful of my wants and wishes, yet tugging (and winning) is his favorite game.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I've also deleted some content and some posts that where childish snipping back and forth - kept the instructive stuff.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Castlemaid said:


> Tugging is a GREAT interactive game for dogs to build confidence and build the bond between owner and dog, but only if done right. *The way the OP is doing it, there are too many controls and rules, and the OP is too worried about a six month old puppy becoming 'dominant' and agressive, and takes all the fun out of it for the dog.* No wonder pup is not really interested in tugging. Really important if a person is interested in pursuing sport and working venues where drive and bite development is important to do the tugging right, and get guidance from a club or trainer.
> 
> Reading through the thread though, I strongly urge you to get together with a club, or an experienced trainer and get some guidance, and to pay attention to the insight of experienced working dog people - because there is a lot to doing this properly for bite and drive development - the way you are approaching tugging (your whole philosophy of growling/outing/being in control) is counter-productive to what you are trying to achieve (so agree with Carmen on many points there).
> 
> And in general for all the posters who play tug just for fun: *Don't worry about the growling, and let the dog win: that makes it so much more fun and rewarding for them, and no, it won't turn your dog into a dominant monster - *Gryffon is still a sweet, easy dog that defers to my older dog and is very respectful of my wants and wishes, yet tugging (and winning) is his favorite game.


What a great response and along with my experiences. All my GSD's growl when they play tug with me (heck, my yellow Lab would growl) and it was never a dominance or aggression situation the way we played. 

Raising and training dogs is not natural to most of us humans (heck, raising a human child is a challenge). Add to that the natural dog behaviors and 'language' which is NOT ours to the mix it's natural that we misunderstand and then end up confusing and mucking up the situation. 

This is why we try to find and attend the best dog classes we can as much as we can. I'd much rather learn from someone that's raised/trained HUNDREDS of dogs than just fumble along doing the best I can and what I think is right......... To start on the right foot and continue on the right foot for training just makes things so much easier and my love for my dog so much more.

We WANT our dogs to tug. We want them to LOVE tugging. But there are rules we can slip in that continues to have them stay in the game.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I am not sure what you mean by hoarding . I think you mean "possession" the dog catches the tug and he claims it as his own - may prance around , tease you with it by running a circle around you or back and forth, lay down just outside of "area of influence" . This is good . Use it to benefit , let the dog think he is some big old strong thing . Walk away and the dog realizes it takes two to play and he will come prancing beside you with the tug . Then you playfully get an end and immediately engage in tug again . While you are doing this you are friendly with the dog -- expression , tone , body language , let the dog drag you forward a bit when it does the pumping action yanking -- let him gain some ground. Then when he thinks he has you , surprise him and pull back with resistance . Little gains, little losses. 
You can't do any training with a pre formated expectation. Now you will and then I will and then you will. Be sensitive to what is happening (not what should be happening) respond to that spontaneously . These are your best training opportunities . You have to be in synch with the dog.
When there is stress you take a step back and operate at the level where most comfort was seen.

OP if you want to do schutzhund then get involved in a club nearby . I can not believe that the club you looked in to wanted you to board the dog for 3 weeks. I have never heard of that ever -- and I've belonged to several clubs in my time . Even if you just find someone at the club who will assist you on a one on one basis. Have someone else play with the tug with your dog. The dog may show another side , less concerned . Then you will see how to do it . 

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

The problem with allowing him to prance around with it, he will usually just thrash, chew and gnaw at it, then when I walk away he'll just continue gnawing, he'll even try to gnaw in the middle of tugging. So now I just keep a hold of a handle and follow him as he walks around , but he will usually lose interest when I do that... but same with fetch, unless I have treats ready for him to come right back, he will destroy the fetch, though he's getting way better at coming right back, not always giving it up even with treats (he'll stand on it, or nip at my hand if I go for it, if I get it, he's all about it), but he will come back - maybe I should tug with his fetch? Also if I introduce food reward during tug for out, he's all "FOOD? NO TUG", so that's now become our cue for an end. His food drive is out of this world. ALWAYS hungry :wild:

Trainer I usually use is all about CGC, AKC, agility and therapy dogs, so that's why she isn't keen on recommending SH, I suppose. I'm still waiting reply from the SH club, but I guess I will need to look elsewhere and at other sports for now. And into flirtpoles for sure, he likes wavey towels. 

Side note: last night he gnawed his squeeky open, tried to "eat" the center, right behind my back; he's had that thing for 3 weeks and now he decides to eat it ... he's getting plenty of bones and non-destructible toys for this behavior. But I'm certain that's what he'll do to the tug if I'm not on top of him - take it away, gnaw it and eat it. Funny thing is, he won't chew at his kong, even the dental stick! Just licks at it and pushes it around, and if he can't get to the treat he'll just give up. It's too funny.


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## jae (Jul 17, 2012)

Just wanted to say, this thread has all the information, and then some, that I'm looking for. Thanks to all!

J


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