# Dog to Dog Aggression - Help Please :(



## geissap (Sep 7, 2010)

We have a 2 year old female GSD that we've raised from 8 weeks. She's been through obedience school, knows alot of commands, we socialized her well with other dogs, people, kids you name it, and we finally decided to get her a playmate. We got a terrier mix. He's a spunky guy we think Jack Russell Terrier and something else. We've had him for about 2 weeks. The 1st week went well. They played together NONSTOP, our GSD is very gentle and they love on each other. Just great...

About a week ago I noticed she was very protective of her crate area, her food and sometimes even the water bowl. She'd let our a warning growl if our terrier got to close and that was that. It's getting worse though ALOT WORSE. Now she growls and sometimes lunges. Today she actually full out attacked our little guy and I had to pull her off. 

We took her to the vet about 5 days ago because she had an ear ache. She's on steroids, and antibiotics so my hope is that the medicines and sickness have caused her to get more aggressive and it'll die down when she begins to feel better. But I don't know what to do right now?

We had her crate in a common area (the office) on our first floor which i spend a good amount of time in. Our terrier likes to come where I'm at and of course that doesn't work because than our GSD gets mad when he comes in the same room as her crate. So our thoughts are to move the crate out of common area and up into the rec room, but now our GSD is still protective of the office and now the rec room. Were just not sure what to do? I'm looking for any help. We love both the dogs, and I wanna do everything I can to keep em both, but at the same time I don't want to jeopardize the safety of our terrier or turn our GSD into a beast.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

If I were you, I would crate and rotate or rehome one. 
If you are determined to make it work, consult a behaviorist or trainer that will come to your home to make an evaluation. 

How old is the terrier mix? Was it a shelter dog? If you don't know his background, it wasn't a great idea to give him full access immediately upon arrival. I would have been more careful with the introductions and possibly used a shutdown type method when integrating the new one into the home.

The GSD needs to have her resource guarding corrected and managed immediately. This can get out of control.


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## geissap (Sep 7, 2010)

I've never heard the crate and rotate term before? Can you explain that?

I agree it could get out of control which is why i've come to this lovely forum for suggestions. The terrier mix hasn't shown any aggression towards her. I know that the terrier mix had a owner previously and they surrendered him cause they moved or some garbage excuse. He knows some basic commands and was crate trained when we got him. He was around 3 years old. 

And all though I appreciate your feedback, I can't do much about the past. I can only push forward. I won't jeopardize the terrier's safety, but I'm not just going to throw in the towel either like you're basically suggesting. She's never shown aggression towards a human EVER. I can still reach into her food bowl freely etc. It's just with the new dog.

Do you know of a good website I can find a good local behaviorist? I definitely don't mind forking out some money for that option.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

geissap said:


> *And all though I appreciate your feedback, I can't do much about the past. I can only push forward.* I won't jeopardize the terrier's safety, but I'm not just going to throw in the towel either like you're basically suggesting. She's never shown aggression towards a human EVER. I can still reach into her food bowl freely etc. It's just with the new dog.


I am not suggesting that you dwell on the past to fix your current issues, but your dog's history plays a large part in how he should be managed and trained. My point is that when you bring a new dog into your household that already has animals in it, you have to be very careful with how you introduce the animals. It is not as simple as tossing them together and hoping they work it out. Prematurely letting a new dog assimilate into a new environment with new dogs, people and routine is not a good idea. Many rescue and foster people will recommend that you do something called the "two week shutdown" or something similar where you slowly let the dog decompress and adjust itself to your household. 2 weeks is hardly any time and it's no wonder that you are having issues with them getting along. 

I don't think I suggested throwing in the towel. I gave you several options:
-crate/rotate. One dog is free in the home while the other is crated and vice versa. The two dogs are not allowed free roam together. Good way to manage multiple dogs if you are able to stay diligent and don't mind the adjustment to your lifestyle. Many pet homes are not set up for this and are not willing to do this. 
-get a trainer/behaviorist. They might help change the dynamics and help them adjust to each other. The GSD needs training and management in regards to her resource guarding. This can be done with the help of a trainer. 
-rehome the terrier. You've had him two weeks and not all dogs will get along in certain households. 

I think you should take it slower, contain the two dogs well at this time and get professional help. It can work or it can not. There are definitely many options for you to consider. I have hope that this will be repaired with a trainer because it is a male/female pair. I would not be so optimistic about two of the same gender.


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## geissap (Sep 7, 2010)

Ok that makes me feel a little better. When you say crate and rotate are you talking like forever? Or just as a break in period until they get used to each other? I found a good behavorist and in fact she use to be one of the trainers at the place we originally took Jada (our GSD too) i've already emailed her. We will be bringing her in I don't care what costs at this point.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Your GSD is resource guarding you, the office, her food, her water, etc. This could either be because she's not happy about the new dog or because she's being a butt. Either way, the crate and rotate could be forever or not... depending on how successful you are with stopping the resource guarding. There are many threads here about resource guarding. However, having a trainer to work with you on it is the very best you can do! You may or may not be able to keep the terrier. The issue is, do you want the terrier to be hurt by your dog or becoming dog aggressive? If not stopped soon, you may have 2 dogs with issues on your hands. I think that's where the idea of re-homing is coming from. Some dogs will just NOT accept other dogs into their homes. If the new dog was given too much freedom too soon, this may have 'set off' your GSD. Your dog may be totally different with another dog or another breed. No way to know. It's great that you're able and willing to get a trainer involved to work out this issue!! Nice to see people who are willing to do the right thing right away to sort things out.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Take her off the steroids!!! what is wrong that she needs anyhow, may be able to help w/alternative. Steroids caused my dad major issues too...to the point after 30 yrs. his wife threatened to divorce if he didn't stop them.

Although this may be an indicatation of something else that the steroids are bringing out (my father ended up having cancer between his lungs that spread to the brain and the liver).

But ween down asap and off.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

The guarding was already there, but the steroids may be escalating the behavior. You may want to speak to the vet about decreasing the dosage until she is off of them if they aren't absolutely needed. 

A couple of links for locating a behaviorist:

Directory of Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists — Animal Behavior Society: Applied Animal Behavior

International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC)

Locate one that has verifiable experience with GSD, talk with past and current clients about their experience and results. Be sure you are comfortable with them as well, they will be training you to work with your dogs.

If you will add your location to your personal details, there may be someone on the forum who can recommend one in your area.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Why is she on steroids for an ear ache? First, do NOT just stop the steroids. You have to wean them off or it can shut down the adrenal gland. Discuss this with your vet.

The steroids could be making her irritable but my guess is she is just a resource guarder. This is behavioral and needs to be dealt with. Plus add in that she doesn't feel well and they are working out a pack hierarchy. She now has to learn to share.

Personally, when I put down the food, the other dogs are not allowed to bother each other and the bowls are picked up when done eating. The crate and the water you'll have to work on. That will be a little harder.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Medications that may cause dog aggression | K9aggression.com


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just a thought...we have a dog on a maintenance dosage of pred. At the "loading" dose of 20 mg 2x daily and then 20 mg 1x daily, she was very restless in the evening. Panting heavily, couldn't settle. My personal opinion is that it somehow messes with the natural rhythm of the body.

Is the resource guarding worse at night?


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Jax08 said:


> Just a thought...we have a dog on a maintenance dosage of pred. At the "loading" dose of 20 mg 2x daily and then 20 mg 1x daily, she was very restless in the evening. Panting heavily, couldn't settle. My personal opinion is that it somehow messes with the natural rhythm of the body.
> 
> Is the resource guarding worse at night?


It does. When I have to increase my pred., I can't sleep...even with a sleeping pill. Feel very restless, can't settle, and very agitated. I can only imagine what a poor dog goes through with this!


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> At the "loading" dose of 20 mg 2x daily and then 20 mg 1x daily, she was very restless in the evening.


Yup. On the heavy loading dose, my male was "off". Loopy and just acting so odd. And pred causes extreme thirst and speeds/warms the body up so the panting could be related to that.


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## geissap (Sep 7, 2010)

So she started on two pills a day and now is down to 1 a day. How do I wean her off from one pill? Do I just give her half a pill for the next two days maybe? and then cut her off entirely?

The vet told me that pret is used to cure infection. At this point though I think her ears are fine. SHe hasn't bothered them in a while. I'm really hoping the medication is what caused alot of this. I expect her to be protective of her food and crate towards the other but when it comes down to it that's pretty easy to control. We have a large house. There crates can be in completely separate areas. They both already eat there food inside of there crates, so there's really no need for either of them to interact with each others crates or food. They share toys and other common areas just fine. They even play together fine.

Once again cause I think some of you are still misunderstanding. She has no resource guarding issues towards humans. I hand fed her some of her food in her crate out of her bowl last night just to make sure. She was totally fine with it.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You wean her off by following the vet's instructions!!!! Not by what anyone tells you online.

Prednisone is NOT used to cure infection. It is an anti-inflammatory. 

Nobody is misunderstanding...you have a resource guarding issue happening. Resource guarding between dogs is common and can escalate into bad fights. I think you are misunderstanding this. A dog can guard a resource from anything. Mine guards toys against a cat that has no desire to have them or one of the other dogs walking by. But she never guards something from a person. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with people.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Jax08 said:


> You wean her off by following the vet's instructions!!!! Not by what anyone tells you online.


Agree!!!!! Please do not take a stranger's medical advice! 
Please read this: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/189233-advice-giving-taking-advice.html

"When you are dealing with a medical issue, especially an urgent one, SEE A VET. When you are dealing with a serious temperament issue, GET TO A TRAINER. Use the board to help you get ideas and suggestions for selecting these folks and for questions to raise as you talk with them, but go to someone who can actually see your dog, diagnose the problem and help you fix it."


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

I think a good trainer can help you. My DH's dog started out guarding her food dish, but then she started guarding the couch too. It's easier to stop something small than wait until it's a bigger problem.

I agree not to mess with the drugs without talking to your vet. On the off-chance that the ear desn't heal properly, your vet needs to know exactly what did or didn't help in the past, and messing with his instructions will throw this off.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

geissap said:


> Once again cause I think some of you are still misunderstanding. *She has no resource guarding issues towards humans*. I hand fed her some of her food in her crate out of her bowl last night just to make sure. She was totally fine with it.


My girl Lakota has no resource guarding issues with humans either, but other animals is a whole different game. 
Unfortunatley it doesn't go away and very difficult to correct. Management and prevention is one of the best ways to deal with it.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Yes, PLEASE only do what your vet tells you with the medication! I was an RN for a decade, and you have to be careful stopping prednisone! Call your vet and talk to them about weaning it off. When on prednisone, your adrenal glands decrease their 'work' and in high enough doses will 'shut off'. If you stop prednisone or decrease too quickly, the adrenal glands don't have a chance to start working at full speed again and all kinds of nasty things can happen.


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## geissap (Sep 7, 2010)

Ok I will call the vet and ask. The vet instructed us to give her two pills a day for 3 days then drop it to one pill a day until the bottle is gone. On day 3 we ran into some really bad digestive issues. She actually broke out of her crate during the day and we had mess everywhere, so we called our vet. He had us stop the prednisone for two days and gave us some sort of antibiotic to calm her stomach (I can't remember the name of it). Now we've resumed prednisone and are continuing the stomach pill. So it's been quite the confusing endeavor.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, the dynamics of the household has changed. It is never a good idea to get a play-mate for your dog. You get another dog because you want a second dog, you are willing an able to exercise, feed, care for, train, play with two dogs. And, to be ideal, you have something specific you want to do with the second dog that the first dog cannot do. 

The thing is, we tend to look at dogs through a human thought process. We are humans, how else can we think for them? We think of them as playful, fun, happy little personalities that would LOVE to have a sibling to romp and play with. And some do. And some don't. 

Furthermore, GSDs tend to be the fun-police anyway. _They_ can act like doofusses, clowns, have the zoomies, jump on their owners for pets, but if some other dog acts like that, sometimes they want to stop it and quick. 

Terriers on the other hand tend to be high energy and don't seem to realize how much smaller they and their teeth are. They tend to hold themselves like they own the block. 

Also, many GSDs (and sorry girls, but females seem worse afflicted then males on this) have what I call the green gene. They can make human jealousy pale in comparison. 

In short, your dog's world has been turned upside down. And now this little upstart has come in acting like he owns the place. And YOU are so excited about him, you are petting him and playing with him, which is wounding her. She does not think of him at all as a good playmate. She sees him as a threat. 

It is kind of like asking your girlfriend or boyfriend to let your ex move in for a few years while they finish college. That generally won't go over well. And for some dogs it doesn't go over well either.

My first advice would be if you got the dog from a no-kill shelter or good rescue, to contact them and return the dog as it is just not working out. If you want a second dog down the line, bringing in a puppy at 8 weeks is generally tolerated better by a resident dog, even if it did not tolerate a dog brought in as an adult. But you would still have to be ready for her not to accept the pup, and be willing to crate-rotate. 

However, it sounds like you want both dogs at this point. Frankly, I don't know if this is best for you or either dog, but we are encouraged to feel guilty if we choose to rehome or return the new dog, and I think this causes a lot of unnecessary problems. If you are set on this path though, what I would do is have two crates, a little apart from each other. Both dogs will sleep and eat in their crates. Both dogs should be taken to separate obedience classes. Both dogs should be given some access to you. If you have a spouse, then it might make sense to walk both dogs together, else, walk them individually -- you do not want to be a mile away from home and have a dog fight to deal with. 

Next, you need to up your leadership. Look up NILIF or google mind games. Going to classes is not enough to address the resource guarding that wasn't an issue before you added a second dog into the mix. You are going to have to change how your dogs view you. I have never dealt with a behaviorist, and I am guessing you really have to know quite a bit to recognize whether you have a good one or one that is not so good. I'd like to say it can't hurt, but that is not necessarily so. If you can find someone with a good reputation who has experience with both breeds, you might want to give it a try.

Sadly, bitches can be sneaky and they have long memories, whatever they tell you in training classes. Yes, a correction or reward has to be given within seconds, but that doesn't mean dogs do not remember vital information. They do. And right now it is vital to your bitch to take out the userper. Some bitches will wait for an opportunity. And you might think that you have things under control, everything is going really well, and you take a shower, or go out to get the mail, and she may jump him. If this was indeed an all out attack on the terrier, I would crate your bitch or the dog every time I went anywhere, probably forever. 

Sometimes it doesn't work out between two dogs, wrong chemistry, wrong combination. The longer you keep the smaller dog, the more opportunity for serious injury, and the harder it will be/the more attached you will be to the smaller dog. Ask yourself an important question. If your GSD kills the terrier, what will this do to your relationship with her?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Excellent post, Sue.


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## geissap (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the long post. I read it all and took it very much to heart. We're definitely evaluating the situation. I do want to see our dog not sick and off the medicine before we make a decision, but I've begun mentally preparing myself for getting rid of the terrier. 

It's going to be very tough. We didn't get him as just a play mate. We also wanted a smaller dog. We wanted a lap dog a smaller size dog as a companion for us as well. 

I'd rather rehome the dog then do the whole crate and rotate thing. I just think that negatively would impact both dogs by keeping them in that situation.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I'd just start doing a lot of obedience. Get them both into classes and work them daily for 30-60 minutes a day if possible. Whenever I read "my dog went through classes" it means it got to a level you were comfortable with but its never really reinforced. What you need to do is show them both that you make decisions around the house and that listening to you will get them love/treats/whatever else they want.

Crate and rotate for their own safety, but start training much more. Not just NILF but just regular stuff.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The post from Selzer is the best advice at this point. You are not experienced enough at this point to manage this situation without a lot of unforeseen incidents occurring that could injure you, or either of the dogs. As you get more knowledgable, you will be in much better position for success.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

antibiotics are not to settle stomach issues, in fact they can aggravate them. prednisone is not for infections but, as someone has already pointed out, is an anti-inflammatory. you may be misunderstanding your vet. if you're not misunderstanding, and this is, in fact, what your vet has told you, you might want to get a new vet. i can tell you from experience that living by gate, crate, and rotate is a full-time job. i have two separate packs, each with a female who has the "green gene", had to build my rescue pack their own room. love them all like they were children, had no other option. if you have another option that you can live with, i'd say take it...gate, crate, and rotate is incredibly demanding. jmho.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Your dog was likely put on flagyl, which IS an antibiotic for gastrointestinal infections. I've seen it used in dogs with GI upsets from other antibiotics (and also in humans with C-diff resulting from other antibiotic use). The GI flora gets out of whack from antibiotics, so another type of infection sets in. Flagyl kills the secondary infection and returns the GI flora to more of its normal state.


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

we took my sons pitbull in when he had moved and couldnt have a pitbull there, he is a very gentle and friendly boy, with my 2 shepherds it took a little time to get them used to having him there, one thing that bothered them was he'd want to jump on the bed and sleep with me, they werent able to do that anymore(older) so i dont know if the right thing but started shutting my door at nite, the shepherds slept in my room anyway. also didnt let them run outside together by themselves for a while unsupervised. another thing i dont know is right, but passed out treats in a kind of order, the shepherds first, it was their home first kind of thing. the food bowls never was a problem cause it seemed like they kind of waited their turn!


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

oh, as far as the sleeping arrangement, the little pittbull sleeps with my daughter! it did take some time, and did keep them seperated when i wasnt there until i knew them to get along. now that my cody is gone, i think clipper would have had a harder time of the loss if it hadnt been for hooch being there.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

jag, op said antibiotic to "calm" her stomach, i was addressing that issue, because the op didn't say anything about a stomach "infection".


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