# a dog's grip is it's grip is it's grip...



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i witnessed a young elluitte monwhiese (spelling??)...grandson doing bite work, wow the sleeve looked like it was growing out of the dogs rear molars. very impressive, the dog did have good bite development with good handlers so i would just like to ask is the bite determined in a dog at the point of conception and thats pretty much it.

i know any dog can be ruined and a weaker dog can be well trained to look better than what it is but is the bite basically all other things equal just how it is and basically will always be.


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I have always believed it to be genetics, but I imagine it can be improved with work. Hunter always bit right back to the back of his mouth without any real development from me - very natural deep, full mouth bite and hard hard grip down.


----------



## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I think a dog can bite as hard as it wants to. The question to me is why do some dogs want to bite hard and some are inhibited for some reason. Here is Ruger carrying a huge chunk of firewood that is very heavy. I would say that this takes a good grip.


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i was more referring to full calm grip but yes bite pressure is part of it.


----------



## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I know. Hunter's grip is described as full and calm.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

This is purely conjecture, but I believe when a dog bites, it tries to get as much of the object it is biting behind the incisors and as much into the molars as possible.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

x11 said:


> i witnessed a young elluitte monwhiese (spelling??)...grandson doing bite work, wow the sleeve looked like it was growing out of the dogs rear molars. very impressive, the dog did have good bite development with good handlers so i would just like to ask is the bite determined in a dog at the point of conception and thats pretty much it.
> 
> i know any dog can be ruined and *a weaker dog can be well trained to look better than what it is but is the bite basically all other things equal just how it is and basically will always be.*


A young dog that bites shallow should be encouraged to counter for a deeper grip before rewarding. 
I see dogs in training biting shallow, then thrash the rag/tug. Cradling, running the dog in circles after the grip is set is key to them learning to grip calmer and keep the tug in the mouth. Some dogs get it easily, some never do. 

I believe genetics are the reason for the frontal shallow biting...though if you aren't training the foundation grips right, bad habits can be formed. 

Seldom if the dog has 'it' genetically, do you need to teach that calm deep grip.
This was the first time my dog was on a puppy sleeve. He was almost 5 months.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the shepherd wanted a dog that would grip fully and calmly , no nipping , cheap bites that annoy the sheep . Control so that he could push back or hold the sheep from moving.
-- genetics , confidence


----------



## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

What Carmen says. Gentics backed by good nerves. 

Grip can be improved through training, but under pressure genetics will usually come forth.


----------



## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Is that in front of, or behind the incisors?


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

keep in mind that outside of schuts calm full grip is not even considered as i understand, eg ring, knpv, etc. just throwing it in there.


----------



## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

x11 said:


> keep in mind that outside of schuts calm full grip is not even considered as i understand, eg ring, knpv, etc. just throwing it in there.


 
That's not 100% true. Grips are still important and they strive for the best grip possible, but the grip is not judged because in those sports the decoy is not "catching" the dog but actively trying to escape. It would be unfair to judge a grip because every dog would be different depending on how the decoy escaped.


----------



## slade (Jan 14, 2008)

x11 said:


> i witnessed a young elluitte monwhiese (spelling??)...grandson doing bite work, wow the sleeve looked like it was growing out of the dogs rear molars. very impressive, the dog did have good bite development with good handlers so i would just like to ask is the bite determined in a dog at the point of conception and thats pretty much it.
> 
> i know any dog can be ruined and a weaker dog can be well trained to look better than what it is but is the bite basically all other things equal just how it is and basically will always be.


Cool! My new puppy is an Ellute grandson too!  Did you like the puppy overall?


----------



## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

i thought the puppy was spectacular, nice looking to. this pup had good bone, is that typical?

if i had to say one negative the pup seemed to lack suspicion but it might just have super good nerves is my guess. 

post a pic slade.


----------



## slade (Jan 14, 2008)

x11 said:


> i thought the puppy was spectacular, nice looking to. this pup had good bone, is that typical?
> 
> if i had to say one negative the pup seemed to lack suspicion but it might just have super good nerves is my guess.
> 
> post a pic slade.


Hey was the pup in Boston? Maybe it was my boy's littermate! Sire is Wum v d Adelegg.


----------



## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Mycobraracr.....your correction is right....grips are judged in those other venues.


----------

