# For the "smaller" GSD owners out there



## Rua

I'm just back from my walk with Juno. We encountered a lady in the park who told me she has a GSD as well and she asked how old mine was. When I told her Juno is four months, she and her friends nearly fell over and exclaimed, "WHAT? Only four months! But she's so small! Are you sure? Why is she so small? Blah blah blah blah small small small." This woman tells me that her four month old boy GSD is double the size of mine and so on and so forth.

Juno will be 4 months old tomorrow and weighs in at nearly 26lbs. I had difficulty measuring her, but I believe she's about 16.5 inches at the shoulder. She has a glorious shiny coat and overall seems to be in good health. (Although, she's gone "off" her food the past couple days. She's still active and playful, and she does eat, but not as much as normal. She seems to be going through a phase. At least I hope that's all it is. After speaking to this woman in the park, I'm feeling rather paranoid about Juno now and worried that something is wrong.)

Juno's granny and father were both rather large. Her mum was on the delicate side. She wasn't a massive GSD, which is partially why we opted for Juno over her sister. We felt a non-giant GSD would be good choice for a first dog for our kids. And Juno seemed to be most like her mum both in appearance and temperament.

I know these dogs can vary a lot in size. But I'm just looking for a bit of reassurance that she's growing the way she should, and if there is anything else I should be doing to facilitate healthy growth in her. 

For all you "small" GSD owners out there: Did you get reactions like this from people? Is my dog normal?


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## bianca

Yes x2! Lucky me!!!! 

Molly (2 years) is 27kgs/59# and compared to almost all others I see around here, she is small. I get asked often if she is a puppy  It used to bother me but now I just think meh.

Cooper (15 weeks old) came home at 8 weeks and was even smaller than Molly at the same age. When I first took him to training I had so many comments saying he was the size of a 4 week old.

Cooper's weight so far to compare (although he is obviously a male!) and he has been sick from a vaccine reaction.

Cooper
8 weeks 3.8kgs / 8.3#
9 weeks 5.0kgs / 11#
11 weeks 8.2kgs/18#
12 weeks 9.6kgs/21.1#
14 weeks 11.2kgs/24.6# (was unwell for a week)
15 1/2 weekw 13.7kgs/30.2#


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## Rua

That makes me feel a bit better. On this forum, I know there are heaps of people that have very large GSDs. At first I thought it was more of an American trend, but then when this lady over here in Ireland started on at me today about how much bigger her dog was than mine, it got me wondering if my girl is unusually small.

But when you look on Wiki, it says the standard breed weight of the female GSD is 22-32kg (49-71lbs), so your Molly is spot on with her weight. 

Maybe we aren't the weird ones after all. Maybe we're the normal ones! haha


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## Anthony8858

My Kira is a West German Show line. Not being too familiar with the "breed standard", I was also concerned like you.
AT 3 months, she was a tiny 13 lbs, 4 months, 20 lbs, 5 months 33 lbs, 6 months 43 lbs, and at 7 months, she now weighs 55 lbs. The breed standard is 49-69 lbs for a female west german show line, so I feel she's right on target. I expect her to be about 68 lbs, just like her mother.

I wouldn't worry, don't let the uneducated get you down.


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## NancyJ

My little female WGWL is 52lbs at 9 years old and even with her HD is surprisingly agile and fit. Small can have its benefits! 

I keep worrying about Beau being such a huge tank (23 inches 65lbs at 7 months) but then realize my current adults are simply on the small end of the standard (Grim is 23 inches and 75lbs, all bone and muscle though, no fat)


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## Castlemaid

LOL, don't worry, even if you have a dog on the upper side of the standard, to the general public your dog is going to be small, unless it is 30 inches and 125 lbs!


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## LaRen616

Malice was 23 pounds at 12.5 weeks old.

She's almost 8 months old now, she is 22' at the shoulder and about 50 pounds. She seems very small to me but that's because my male is 28' at the shoulder.


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## Acejin

I've had these thoughts also when my puppy weight 26 lbs at 4 month old, I was sure something was wrong in his development but now at 9 month old he weight 81 lbs! 
I guess like humans dogs have different growth rate, He developed drastically between 6-8 months.


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## counter

Nara is 4 years old, 25.5" and 88 lbs and we're still told how small she is. Just ignore their ignorance. The larger a dog is, the shorter its average lifespan. So be happy knowing you should hopefully get some extra years of love and life out of your dog. Bigger isn't always better, especially when it comes to the size of a dog. I'd take a few extra years over a few extra lbs and inches any day. They can keep their oversized, beyond-the-standard dogs. Haha! Nara is just perfect in my eyes! We've been told that she must be a mutt because she is too small to be a pure GSD. I used to get offended, but now I just laugh at them and their ignorance.


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## Anthony8858

Oh, I forgot....

Just yesterday, someone commented how they used to have MIXED BREED SHEPHERDS LIKE MINE!!! 

Does Kira look like a mixed breed to you? 
People just don't know what they're talking about.


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## MaggieRoseLee

Bigger is NOT better! And since more than 1/2 the dogs in the USA are fat fat fat, anytime everyone compares WEIGHT I'm not going to care that your 'fat' dog is bigger than mine!

GSD's are not Great Danes or St Bernards. The same as I wouldn't be making fun of my GSD being 'bigger' than a Beagle puppy. They are different breeds and SUPPOSED to be a different size BASED ON THE STANDARD written for the breed.

So for everyone you meet bragging about their huge over 100 pound GSD just remember there not is either 1) fat or 2) being purposely bred too large for what the breed is SUPPOSED to be or 3) just a genetic fluke within a litter of other more normal sized puppies. 

So clearly there are huge GSD's out there. But they are the ones that are 'wrong' not the ones in the written standard!

Some great comparison charts are http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/development-socialization/85894-pup-growth-log-chart.html


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## Rua

Anthony8858 said:


> Oh, I forgot....
> 
> Just yesterday, someone commented how they used to have MIXED BREED SHEPHERDS LIKE MINE!!!
> 
> Does Kira look like a mixed breed to you?
> People just don't know what they're talking about.


LOL! No, she certainly does NOT look like a mixed breed. WTH? Was that person blind? Kira's gorgeous. :wub:

And Acejin, That's interesting your pup had such a growth boost at 6-8 months. I hear of some people's pups having their boost at 4-5 months and others much later. Every dog is an individual in themselves, I suppose, and what happens with one dog doesn't mean it will happen with another.


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## Dr. Teeth

The overly large dog thing is always annoying no matter how many times you hear it. My aunt the self appointed gsd expert who owns a crippled, large Am. dog from so called champion lines, and the "sire was a police dog", (I wish I had a nickle for that line), blah, blah, blah, took real offense when she asked what size my puppy would get. I answered that he'll be the correct size, and there has been a feud ever since. oh well. 

Next time just tell the large dog afficianados: If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand anyway.


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## Mrs.K

17 month old, 61 pound light bundle of drive and energy











Absolutely happy with that. It's not about the size but what's in the dog. 
Now look what that_* sub-standard*_ rolleyes:) GSD can do:

Don't mess with the Nala Monster  - YouTube

I take that tiny little, sub-standard German Shepherd over a huge, big ol' Couch Potato anytime. 

Don't even worry about what people say. You'll come across these kind of people more often. Just smile, nod and brush them off.


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## Rua

Beautiful dog, Mrs. K. Absolutely perfect.


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## TaraM1285

Tara is almost 4 years old, 23.5" at the withers and 68 pounds and people still think she is a puppy because she's so "small".


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## Mrs.K

TaraM1285 said:


> Tara is almost 4 years old, 23.5" at the withers and 68 pounds and people still think she is a puppy because she's so "small".


Indra is on the large end of the standard. One more centimeter and she'd be outside the standard and I'm asked "When does she stop growing, her paws are so huge." :help:

She's large, long and 74 pounds, which is not small or light for a female and my vet said she's "slightly thin". :help:


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## NewbieShepherdGirl

People always think that a normal sized shepherd is small. I just got told yesterday by a friend of mine that when I get my working line shepherd it will be bigger than Sasha because working line shepherds are big....:headbang: I politely explained that no, they aren't and that since I am hoping to get a male, yet it may be a little bigger than Sasha, but that Sasha was right in the breed standard. I can't remember how tall Sasha is I wanna say somewhere between 22-24inches, and she's roughly 70lbs and could probably stand to lose a few. Like others have said, they aren't supposed to be Great Danes.


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## Furricane

Anthony8858 said:


> Oh, I forgot....
> 
> Just yesterday, someone commented how they used to have MIXED BREED SHEPHERDS LIKE MINE!!!
> 
> Does Kira look like a mixed breed to you?
> People just don't know what they're talking about.


:spittingcoffee: Yeah she looks like she's part dalmation part retriever! Can't you see it? 

Haha Kendra is 4 years old and only weighs 63 pounds. Her being small and still having giant bat ears apparently makes her a mixed breed according to strangers as well. I just smile, laugh, and say "trust me, she has the energy of a GSD!" Oh and because of how petite she is and how huge her ears are, people are always telling me that she still has to grow into her ears! :laugh: I just laugh and say "at 4 she's pretty much stuck with them now!" It used to bother me, but now I laugh it off. I know what my girl is so why let what other people say get to me.


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## LoveEcho

Echo is 26" and about 85 lbs. At 18 months  I STILL get told how small he is. We were hiking the other day with our trainer and his dog (retired MWD...the dog he had with him in Iraq)...met a girl who raved about her parent's 150 lb shepherd, and who was telling the trainer that there's no way his dog could be a purebred because he's so small (he's about 65 lbs). The trainer looked horrified and said "oh my gosh, the military spent way too much money on this dog then!"... the girl was confused....

bottom line: idiots are a dime a dozen. 


Usually I got comments on how small Echo is, but I was in Petco and met an employee with a very thick Polish accent who was raving about how nice it is to see a dog within breed standards, and how sick he is of seeing fat shepherds. Turns out his parents are breeders in Germany :wild:


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## Mrs.K

Not sure where it is coming from but I have to say that everything in the US is bigger. Meal sizes are bigger, Orange Juice, Milk doesn't matter what it is, it all comes in Jumbo Size. Cars are bigger, Malls, Supermarkets, streets, parking lots, everything is bigger than in Europe. 

I don't know if it is just a culture thing that everything seems to be bigger and naturally people want a bigger dog too, then or what it is with the "Bigger is Better" way of life. 

You can see that with several breeds. A friend has a huge Shiloh, he is one of the biggest out there, yet there are always people that have yet an even bigger Shiloh than hers as if they'd win something for having a yet even bigger dog. 

It's like a contest: "My house, my car, my dog, my wife, my yacht."
"My house, my vacation house, my RV, my dog, my wife, my girlfriend and two yachts."


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## TrickyShepherd

Zira was 25lbs at 3.5 months... when I got her to a healthy weight and not skin and bones, she was about 32lbs. She was a rescue and a bit skinny at first.

She is actually over standard though. Currently she's around 28" at the shoulder and at about 65-70lbs (still needs a lot of muscle tone). She is a year old.

I think your pup is just fine! Don't let the ignorant make you feel any less about your dog.


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## Rua

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> *People always think that a normal sized shepherd is small*. I just got told yesterday by a friend of mine that when I get my working line shepherd it will be bigger than Sasha because working line shepherds are big....:headbang: I politely explained that no, they aren't and that since I am hoping to get a male, yet it may be a little bigger than Sasha, but that Sasha was right in the breed standard. I can't remember how tall Sasha is I wanna say somewhere between 22-24inches, and she's roughly 70lbs and could probably stand to lose a few. Like others have said, they aren't supposed to be Great Danes.



How has this happened do you think? What's bred this idea in peoples minds that it isn't a real Shepherd unless it's a horse?

I know everything in the US is "super sized", and that you encounter a lot of this attitude regarding GSDs over there, but I live across the globe, where culturally it's completely different and that idea seems to be permeating here as well. (Although as the years go by, Ireland is becoming more and more influenced by the US.)


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## Bluemoose

Castlemaid said:


> LOL, don't worry, even if you have a dog on the upper side of the standard, to the general public your dog is going to be small, unless it is 30 inches and 125 lbs!


Yup, exactly this. When Onyx was a couple months younger I would always get the, "Omg look at those paws! He's gonna be HUGE!" Then when I would say I expect him to be around 85 lbs, they would get all disappointed and go, "Oh. That's not that big".

One guy saw Onyx when he was about 4 months old and goes, "My dog was that big when he was born." Or the man who asked me if Onyx was a "miniature German Shepherd".

All this and I don't even consider him small for a GSD!


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## SophieGSD

Hahaha I get the "Is she a mix?" too, but mainly because she's "old school" breeding. (She doesn't have the sloped hips, which I'm very happy about.) They also ask because, like yours, she's a little small. =P She's 11 months and.. isn't "dainty" by any means, but her brothers were almost three times her size.

I also get the automatic question from those who don't realize that these are PETS as well.. "How do you enjoy being a canine unit?" XD


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## Angelina03

I think the idea of GSDs being big comes from the notion they are "guard" dogs and therefore, fearful and mean and "big".


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## doggiedad

your pup is fine. don't do anything to make her taller,
bigger, older, more GSD, etc.


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## Zisso

I am not sure how tall Z is but he weighs in a 60lbs and that is light for a 4 year old male in my opinion. If he gets up to 65 he looks fat. 

Nadia is just a couple inches taller than he is and she looks her best at 73lbs-she is definitely fat if she gets over 75.


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## BlackJack

I think a lot of people like to over estimate the size of their dogs. I know I constently get people talking about how Molly is the biggest GSD they have ever seen, she is 67 lbs, and about 7 lbs over weight in my opinion. But she is a LSC, so her coat makes her look much larger than she really is. Immo is 63 lbs and same height as her at 6 months, but look much smaller do to his standard coat.


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## JanaeUlva

This is from the United Schutzhund Clubs of America Breed Standard information that you can find here - 
USCA - German Shepherd Breed Standard

Here is the range in height and weight:

*Males:* Height at the wither 60 cm to 65 cm
Weight 30 kg to 40 kg.

*Females:* Height at the wither 55 cm to 60 cm
Weight 22 kg - 32 kg

Length of torso exceeds height at the withers by 10 - 17%.

*Conversion of CM to IN for height*:
Male: 60 cm = 23.6 in. . . . . 65 cm = 25.6 in
Female: 55cm = 21.7 in. . . . 60 cm = 23.6 in

*Conversion of KG to LBS for weight*:
Male: 30 kg = 66 lbs. . . . . . . 40 kg = 88 lbs
Female: 22 kg = 48.4 lbs. . . . 32 kg = 70.4 lbs

Minka is just 22 inches tall and a muscular lithe weight of 52 lbs and she is black. That means many people ask "what breed is she?" But that is OK because she is agile, fast and performing great in both agility and Schutzhund! I give her pep talks all the time - "Show them that little females can kick some a**"


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## sashadog

JanaeUlva said:


> This is from the United Schutzhund Clubs of America Breed Standard information that you can find here -
> USCA - German Shepherd Breed Standard
> 
> Here is the range in height and weight:
> 
> *Males:* Height at the wither 60 cm to 65 cm
> Weight 30 kg to 40 kg.
> 
> *Females:* Height at the wither 55 cm to 60 cm
> Weight 22 kg - 32 kg
> 
> Length of torso exceeds height at the withers by 10 - 17%.
> 
> *Conversion of CM to IN for height*:
> Male: 60 cm = 23.6 in. . . . . 65 cm = 25.6 in
> Female: 55cm = 21.7 in. . . . 60 cm = 23.6 in
> 
> *Conversion of KG to LBS for weight*:
> Male: 30 kg = 66 lbs. . . . . . . 40 kg = 88 lbs
> Female: 22 kg = 48.4 lbs. . . . 32 kg = 70.4 lbs
> 
> Minka is just 22 inches tall and a muscular lithe weight of 52 lbs and she is black. That means many people ask "what breed is she?" But that is OK because she is agile, fast and performing great in both agility and Schutzhund! I give her pep talks all the time - "Show them that little females can kick some a**"


Holy smokes! Here all along I thought Sasha was "small" but really she's only half a pound away from exceeding the standard! And she's not fat by any means... I get the comment all the time about how small she is. Now I can rub the facts in their faces


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## Mrs.K

sashadog said:


> Holy smokes! Here all along I thought Sasha was "small" but really she's only half a pound away from exceeding the standard! And she's not fat by any means... I get the comment all the time about how small she is. Now I can rub the facts in their faces


The weight standard can actually fluctuate. Indra is 60 cm but she's got 72 pounds. So technically she's outside the standard weight wise yet she's by no means fat. She's athletic and it's really not a big of a deal that she's got 72 pounds and is one and a half pounds above.


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## sashadog

Mrs.K said:


> The weight standard can actually fluctuate. Indra is 60 cm but she's got 72 pounds. So technically she's outside the standard weight wise yet she's by no means fat. She's athletic and it's really not a big of a deal that she's got 72 pounds and is one and a half pounds above.


Huh... learn something new everyday  So it is the height standard more important and a healthy weight just goes along with it?


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## Mrs.K

sashadog said:


> Huh... learn something new everyday  So it is the height standard more important and a healthy weight just goes along with it?


Yes. If you have an 65 cm female with 79 pounds that would absolutely be out of the standard.


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