# email from TOTW...Help!



## JenniferH (Oct 9, 2007)

Okay, I emailed about the calcium. Been reading alot about this lately and I think I am more confused than ever now. You know how when you research the heck out of something that you start to go on overload? Thats where I am now...

My breeder has the pups started on TOTW wetlands. I bought TOTW prairie last week to start Bella on it. Then I realized that I had not researched the calcium on this food. Turns out its like 2 point something. So I emailed them cause I know many folks on this board feel its fine for pups and if the breeder has had success than maybe its okay??? It still concerns me though. Below is the email I got...


<span style='font-family: Century Gothic'><span style='font-size: 11pt'>The TOW formulas are approved by AAFCO to meet all the nutrient requirements for all life stages. AAFCO recognizes 3 life stages:
growth, maintenance, gestation/lactation. If a formula meets the nutrient requirements for all three of these stages it is given the "all life stage" approval.

The large/ giant breed puppies have different considerations. This population genetically maybe predisposed to juvenile orthopedic disorders, like hip/elbow dysplasia, osteochondrosis. These diseases have been found to be polygenic and multifactorial, meaning that several genes are involved and that other factors (like diet) affect the development. Clinical studies have shown that controlling the amount of calcium and energy in large breed puppy formulas will decrease the incidence of these diseases in that population. There are genetic registries, like the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and Penn Hip, that record pedigree information and tie it to hip dysplasia and other genetic disorders.

If a puppy is predisposed for the juvenile orthopedic disorders, then a large breed puppy formula might be a better choice. (We make several different product lines, with different features and there are several choices for a LB pup formula- just not a grain free formula, if that's what you need) Other product lines are: Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge, Chicken Soup.

Ca in the WL and HP is 2.1% and PS 1.9% (as fed). These are above what is recommended in the literature (.7-1.2%)

Hope this helps.

Janet L. Rettenmaier, DVM, MS
Director of Veterinary Services
Diamond Pet Foods
Meta, MO 65058
ph. 573-229-4203</span></span>

So, is she telling me that this is okay food? HD is genetic and food related? Or that I should try a large breed puppy food? 

Thanks for any help. Like I said, I have done so much reading that its all blending together now. I want one food for both dogs. Doesnt have to be grain free but cant be too rich either. Cant afford the top of the line but I can go better than average.


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## Jacobysma (Jun 17, 2009)

It appears she is telling you that if you have a lg breed puppy (gsd is definately that) then you should use a LB pup formula and if you need grain free that you should go with Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge or from the Chicken Soup line.

That's how I read it


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## DnP (Jul 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: JenniferHIf a puppy is predisposed for the juvenile orthopedic disorders, then a large breed puppy formula might be a better choice. (We make several different product lines, with different features and there are several choices for a LB pup formula- just not a grain free formula, if that's what you need) Other product lines are: Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge, Chicken Soup.
> 
> Ca in the WL and HP is 2.1% and PS 1.9% (as fed). These are above what is recommended in the literature (.7-1.2%)


Actually, what I got was that if you are looking for a grain-free food, they do not have one that fits the needs of a large breed puppy. If you are not looking for a grain-free food, then she is suggesting you might want to look at one of their other product lines that might fit your needs.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: JacobysmaIt appears she is telling you that if you have a lg breed puppy (gsd is definately that) then you should use a LB pup formula and if you need grain free that you should go with Diamond Naturals, Premium Edge or from the Chicken Soup line.
> 
> That's how I read it


That's what I'm getting too.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

And it also sounds a bit like CYA.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

TOTW has too much calcium for a growing GSD pup as do most grain free formulas. At least she's being honest and telling you not to use that exact product. Just like the lady said, stay away from that formula for now. You don't want any health problems like pano or HD.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

I've used it on a couple litters, no problems with HD. Pano either. The only time I've had pano is when I fed Canidae ALS, go figure. You'll have to decide what's best for you. I had no problem feeding as well as others, but some do.


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## GSD4LIFE21 (Mar 8, 2007)

I have my pup on Innova Large breed Adult formula. It has the right calcium ratio from what I was told for a growing german shep puppy..


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

+1 to the innova, but i feed the adult formula


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## JenniferH (Oct 9, 2007)

Thanks everyone! 

I guess its better safe than sorry. I've only had Bella on it for a week and only bought a small bag so I'll keep looking for another food that I like. I dont feel that I have to have large breed puppy food but the calcium has to be lower than what TOTW has. 

Like I said, I'm running on dog food info overload and its all getting confusing to me now.


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## VomBlack (May 23, 2009)

I had the same exact issue with the Merrick foods that I had been feeding since 8 weeks. In the process of switching over to Wellness Supermix Lamb, as the Innova my other dog is on gave him soft stool.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

im surprised with that email considering they make no mention of the (possible) lack of suitability of TOTW for large/giant breed puppies on their website or packaging. ive always said i wish they would at least acknowledge the issue, at the very least so consumers are aware and can give it some consideration.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

You might want to look into Blue Buffalo Wilderness. Calciumhos is 1:.9 so even though it's a huge protein food without a lot of grain, it'd be okay for puppies.


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## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: phgsdYou might want to look into Blue Buffalo Wilderness. Calciumhos is 1:.9 so even though it's a huge protein food without a lot of grain, it'd be okay for puppies.


those are minimums, not as fed. the calc as fed could be as high as 2% from a 1% minimum. some have a large spread between the min and max, others not so much. id contact them to find out if i was going to feed it.


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