# schutzhund and tracking?



## Murphy59 (Sep 9, 2021)

I want to start tracking with my mal pup. He is about 7 months. He does go to schutzhund training once a week and I was told by my local search and rescue team that its very hard to do both. Id love to here some insight. I can see how it could be confusing but I know of guite a few people that have done is successfully. Thoughts will be greatly appriciated!!
sarkari naukri daily


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## Holde (Aug 21, 2021)

If you are not experienced I can see it being quite a challenge. Keep in mind that SchH tracking is often where people struggle and fail. So it depends on how many dogs have you trained for SchH? 

If you are not experienced then it may be best for you to decide what is more enjoyable for you AND your dog. If it is SchH then my suggestion is stick with that. If you think the other type of tracking is what you want and your dog can do it with enthusiasm then go do that.

SchH tracking is like a duck on the water, looks quiet and simple from the outside but underneath there is a lot going on. You cannot afford a lot of confusion or conflict. 

If you are experienced then you can train the dog to know the difference between SchH tracking and man trailing/SAR type tracking. It will have to be very clear to the dog though and I bet some experienced trainers have done this.

Hope this helps and good luck on your journey.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Murphy59 said:


> I want to start tracking with my mal pup. He is about 7 months. He does go to schutzhund training once a week and I was told by my local search and rescue team that its very hard to do both. Id love to here some insight. I can see how it could be confusing but I know of guite a few people that have done is successfully. Thoughts will be greatly appriciated!!


People successful in both IGP tracking and tracking with air scenting do a couple different things.

1. They do IGP tracking first which is footstep to footstep tracking where the dog is not allowed to air scent. This foundation can then be built on to do other tracking.
2. They are good enough, and experienced enough, to create two different behaviors in tracking with different commands. One for IPG and one for SAR.

Your SAR group is correct. This is very hard to do. If you are inexperienced, and your goal is IGP rather than SAR, I suggest you stick with IGP. SAR is not a joke. I would NOT want an IGP dog responsible for finding me if I were lost.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I tried, it is very hard and exhausting to do both! Pick one, what is your dog more suited to? Is your dog happy to find people or would it rather bite a sleeve? Which discipline in SAR? A lot of SAR County teams won't take a dog that's done protection work.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Jax08 said:


> People successful in both IGP tracking and tracking with air scenting do a couple different things.
> 
> 1. They do IGP tracking first which is footstep to footstep tracking where the dog is not allowed to air scent. This foundation can then be built on to do other tracking.
> 2. They are good enough, and experienced enough, to create two different behaviors in tracking with different commands. One for IPG and one for SAR.
> ...


I train with a nice IPO1 boy who's a fantastic area dog but it took a while to train the bark and hold out of him in the search context. At first we were a little nervous when he found us  But agreed


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Are you just wanting to to IGP style tracking or all 3 phases? It would be easier if u want to fo just the tracking portion. 
There is a women in our club that has a SAR Mal and just got her IGP a couple months ago. Her Mal is older and already certified in SAR. Granted she has been in the sport for many years so having experienced people help you it can be done. 
Starting SAR with a young dog and doing IGP will be very challenging. I would wait to get the SAR or IGP foundation before doing both at the same time


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

My dog does IGP style tracking and search work to find my son. I wouldn’t call us SAR level by any means. 
But @Jax08 nailed in saying that the two activities need to look very different to the dog. IGP is basically obedience. Search work (for us) is a pumped up free for all. So especially the process before the release is very different for each. 
Balancing the two has been challenging, especially helping him keep his head during IGP tracking. IGP has helped as it teaches him nose down if lost.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

The main questions you need to ask, and we cannot answer them for you. 
1. Is your dog able to do both, and be successful. 
2. How much time do you have to devote to training. SAR in itself is a LOT. IGP in itself is a LOT. Are you able to make training your life. 
I've seen dogs succeed in both. But the handlers were experienced, and training was their life. I know I would not have the time for both.


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## Bentwings1 (May 29, 2017)

CeraDean said:


> My dog does IGP style tracking and search work to find my son. I wouldn’t call us SAR level by any means.
> But @Jax08 nailed in saying that the two activities need to look very different to the dog. IGP is basically obedience. Search work (for us) is a pumped up free for all. So especially the process before the release is very different for each.
> Balancing the two has been challenging, especially helping him keep his head during IGP tracking. IGP has helped as it teaches him nose down if lost.


I think eventually the SAR groups will not like Schutzhund dogs because of protection training. I our own training I never allowed a bite to be given for a find reward. I still was not welcome at the loSAR. M GSD Had all his SCH. Titles plus AKC tracking And distance title as well as good dog. Award. He was not the best area search as we didn’t realt train for this however he still was a certified area search K9 dog. He never failed a tracking or search test and we won a lot of dog food in bets. Once he was about 12 weeks old we began tracking training. As he progressed tracks became more difficult and longer. Some times three or more long tracks per day. Essentially a whole day of various tracks regardless of weather. When he saw me come out with his harness and long line it was all I do to keep him from jumping the home fence to get in the car. We didn’t get into narc trading much as I was working with other K9 dogs but he still was able to find unfamiliar items hidden virtually anywhere. If I were to do this today I’d have some k8nd of mapping software so I would not have to either mare or not way points. I think I’d use a radio tracking collar or locator so he could work off leash. Some SARS want this some do not. Tracking involves learning how the dog really uses his nose. We really don’t know exactly how this works but once the dog knows that he needs to use his nose for a purpose he will work very hard for a reward. On occasion I gave fresh raw hamburger and even fresh beef. It’s really hard to do thi. As the dog will know it’s there before you start. Your job is to teach the dog he is to find a track and follow it relentlessly. When he makes the find be it a kid or person the tasty reward is given. Dogs don’t forget. They even seem disappointed if there is only a small reward. You need to work hard to teach the dog that sometimes just “ good boy” is his reward. Seems cruel. But some of this come from obedience training. Not every move gets a reward but an occasional pet and praise works wonders for a dog that loves you. He wants you to love him back and he recognizes pets and pats as affection. It’s just that sometimes the reward is greater. I get lots of challenges over this but it worked in obedience tracking and protection. Each event had rewards not always food. Sometimes just chasing a ball then bringing it back to you I’d perfect.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

If you really want to do both, start with footstep first. Don't start trailing until the OB in footstep is solid. If you try and transition to trailing or do a mix of both, you well get a dog that tries to cheat in footstep because of the mixed messages.

And the 2 activities need to look very different to the dog. Different gear, commands, set up, everything looks different before the search.


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