# Consistent diarrhea in 15wk pup.



## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

Hi everyone!
Apologies for the long post but I thought detail would be best. 

My pup is currently 15 weeks. 
I brought him home at 9 weeks and he was on a half raw/half dry diet (royal canin German shepherd junior with the breeder so I bought a bag of that to eventually switch him into a better food)

Always had perfect poops until one day, At 13 weeks he started getting a bad case of diarrhea, out of no where. No diet change. vet check was clear and said it could have just been a sensitive puppy stomach thing. After a week+ on bland chicken and rice, his stools started to firm up so I reintroduced him onto his kibble very slowly. We had a 5 day success of good solid poops. 
He is now 15 weeks and two days ago, his poop was solid in the morning and suddenly in the afternoon it was half solid and half diarrhea, soft with mucous. I gave him plain chicken and rice no kibble that night. 
The next morning, he again had a solid stool and then in the afternoon he had half solid and half diarrhea. Then later that afternoon it was just liquid diarrhea. 

I've also given him some pure pumpkin to help firm up his stools but the diarrhea is continuing. The vet has said he is fine, he is also wormed and fully vaccinated. She suggested I put him on royal canin low fat gastrointestinal food, but I don't believe that will help very much... It's ingredients are incredibly similar to the GSD junior food that I have. 
He is acting lively and happy, drinking and staying hydrated. Nothing out of the norm. 
Also I do not recall him eating anything funny off the floor. 
I am at a lost as to what to do. I don't want him to keep having to stay on this bland low fat diet for so long as I worry it's not nutritious enough for his growing age. It's also very hard to fatten him up on as he has been thinner than before from the first round of diarrhea. 

Any advice would be great, please no negativity  
Thank you in advanced! 
(Also posted in 'health issues')


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Sounds like giardia, it's very hard to get a positive on a normal fecal because it only sheds at certain times, ask for the Eliza exam instead, it will test for antibodies... In the mean time order some kocci free from Amber technology, it is a herbal remedy that does wonders for giardia.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

_VAChospitals: "Giardia_ is a simple one-celled parasitic species; it is not a "worm", bacteria or virus. 

These microscopic parasites attach themselves to the intestinal wall and the damage causes an acute (sudden-onset) foul-smelling diarrhea. The stool may range from soft to watery, often has a greenish tinge to it, and occasionally contains blood. Infected dogs tend to have excess mucus in the feces. Vomiting may occur in some cases. The signs may persist for several weeks and gradual weight loss may become apparent."The disease is not usually life threatening unless the dogs' immune system is immature or immunocompromised."​"The majority of giardia infections are asymptomatic, meaning there are no obvious signs your pet is infected.
When symptoms are present, the most common is diarrhea, which can be acute, chronic or fluctuant.
Many dog owners don't consult the veterinarian about their pet's soft, mushy stool because often the stool improves on its own. About the time you're ready to call your vet for an appointment, the stool firms up and all seems well again.
Because of the on-again, off-again nature of loose stools associated with giardia, many pet owners assume the dog got into something he shouldn't have, or had a meal that didn't agree with him. That's why so many cases of giardia go undiagnosed. 

some parasites, and giardia is one of them, aren't consistently shed in every stool sample. So if a cyst-free stool sample is collected for analysis, it might not show any evidence of giardia infection, even though the animal is indeed infected.
This is why I recommend any patient with a history of bowel problems be tested for giardia with an ELISA test (as Wick said). A fecal ELISA test is different from a fecal flotation test in that it checks for giardia antigens present in the animal's body. A fecal float test only checks for evidence of giardia cysts in a stool sample.
Many vets don't routinely run this test and put all their faith in stool sample results, which may or may not show positive for giardia, even when there's an infection. Remember giardia cysts aren't passed in every single stool sample, which is why multiple fecal float tests are necessary to insure the infection is completely resolved.
It's also zoonotic, meaning that if the family dog has it or a human family member has it, the entire rest of the family – humans and animals – can be infected." Giardia | Don't Let This Parasite Ruin Your Pet's Health


I also recommend including Kocci Free along with the meds the vet will give you for this. [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Amber-Technology-Kocci-Free/dp/B002MV9UDS[/ame] 


Remember to get a good quality ProBiotic to administer 1 to 2 hours before or after giving antibiotic. The antibiotics kill the good bacteria in the gut. The ProBiotic replenishes them. Here are 2 excellent Human Grade ones:


Sunday Sundae: to purchase in USAhttp://animalnature.net/animal-nature-product-listing.htmlphone: 412 723 2194 Jason @ Animal Nature (he can over-night this for you). to purchase in Canada: 
http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Sunday-Sundae.html


*Digest All Plus*http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/digestive-support/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html
(can also be purchased at some Pet Supply Plus stores) at Amazon: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Wholistic-Pet-Organics-Digest-All-Plus/dp/B001LNMYY0/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1443788232&sr=1-1&keywords=digest+all+plus+for+dogs[/ame]


Good luck!
Moms


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

Agree with giardia posts. If the eliza test doesn't pick it up, and kocci free doesn't improve anything I would look into a nutriscan test (I think that is the name of it). It will tell you want he is intolerant to, and what to avoid. I had this same issue, 4 negative giardia tests and I finally switched him to raw, once adding some probiotics his GI is back to normal, no diarrhea. I'm assuming he had an intolerance to something in the kibble.


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

Momto2GSDs said:


> _VAChospitals: "Giardia_ is a simple one-celled parasitic species; it is not a "worm", bacteria or virus.
> 
> These microscopic parasites attach themselves to the intestinal wall and the damage causes an acute (sudden-onset) foul-smelling diarrhea. The stool may range from soft to watery, often has a greenish tinge to it, and occasionally contains blood. Infected dogs tend to have excess mucus in the feces. Vomiting may occur in some cases. The signs may persist for several weeks and gradual weight loss may become apparent."The disease is not usually life threatening unless the dogs' immune system is immature or immunocompromised."​"The majority of giardia infections are asymptomatic, meaning there are no obvious signs your pet is infected.
> When symptoms are present, the most common is diarrhea, which can be acute, chronic or fluctuant.
> ...


Thanks sooo much for your detailed reply! I really appreciate it and the suggestions  I'll definitely look into those products
Also thanks to wick for the reply too! (I havent quite figured out how to reply properly on these forums yet)
do you think that it could possibly be coccidia? I was suggested this by someone else 

Does anyone have any suggestions on a good multivitamin to supplement him with while hes on the chicken and rice diet? I worry he isn't being supplemented with enough on this bland combo.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

fortam said:


> Thanks sooo much for your detailed reply! I really appreciate it and the suggestions  I'll definitely look into those products
> Also thanks to wick for the reply too! (I havent quite figured out how to reply properly on these forums yet)
> do you think that it could possibly be coccidia? I was suggested this by someone else
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on a good multivitamin to supplement him with while hes on the chicken and rice diet? I worry he isn't being supplemented with enough on this bland combo.


I agree!

FANTASTIC Human Ingredient products you can keep your dog on even after this problem!
*Sunday Sundae* (Digestive Enzyme & Pro-Biotic Combo): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Sunday-Sundae.html
*Feed-Sentials – K9 Nutrients*( Multi Vitamins – combination of whole foods which provides a full spectrum vitamins with co-factors which amplify benefits): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/FEED-SENTIALS.html START WITH THIS ONE & SUNDAY SUNDAE if you choose to purchase these. 
*Sh-emp Oil* (Combination of Herring Oil, Coconut Oil and Hemp Oil): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/SH-EMP-OIL.html
*Phyt-n-Chance* (superfoods, which includes cleansing/detoxification, anti inflammation, and phyto nutrition supporting immune health): http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Phyt-n-Chance-K9-A-Highly-Concentrated-Antioxidant-Blend.html
*Power Of EA’s* (a unique blend of natural, health enriching oils that are high in omega 3. It also provides a rich source of beta carotene, another anti inflammatory and complete, natural vitamin E from two separate ingredients which provide four tocopherols.) http://ineedthat.corecommerce.com/Power-of-3EA-s.html

You can order these from Animal Nature in the States. http://animalnature.net/animal-nature-product-listing.html
phone: 412 723 2194 Jason @ Animal Nature (he can over-night this for you).

Coccidia can also be treated with the Kocci Free!

You may want to try a higher quality kibble such as Fromm's or Acana. Royal Canin contains BY- Products!

*ACANA REGIONALS (grain free):* Acana Regionals | Acana Store locator: Store Locator | Acana
*
FROMM'S FOUR STAR (grain free): *Four-Star Gourmet Recipes for dogs - Fromm Family Foods locator: 

Find a store that carries Fromm

Always wean a dog on to a new food slowly taking a week or two. 

Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

Sorry, but I missed that you were from Australia! Although I believe the ones I posted can be shipped from Canada.

You need to be careful of where supplements are sourced from. 
These are organic vit/min available in your country: Value Plus Organic Vitamin & Mineral Powder

Probiotic: DigestiCare 60 Multistrain Probiotic 150g

Moms


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

Momto2GSDs said:


> Sorry, but I missed that you were from Australia! Although I believe the ones I posted can be shipped from Canada.
> 
> You need to be careful of where supplements are sourced from.
> These are organic vit/min available in your country: Value Plus Organic Vitamin & Mineral Powder
> ...


Thank you a million times over! I'm sending you a private message to discuss it further ) please check that


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## wick (Mar 7, 2015)

Mom2gsds is amazing, she always has correct and thorough information, always default to mom!


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

wick said:


> Mom2gsds is amazing, she always has correct and thorough information, always default to mom!


Awwwww! Thank you Wick!

There are many knowledgeable people on this blog with great info!

Moms


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

fortam said:


> Thank you a million times over! I'm sending you a private message to discuss it further ) please check that


I would be happy to help!

Moms


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

fortam said:


> Thank you a million times over! I'm sending you a private message to discuss it further ) please check that


Nevermind, I'm too new a member, I can't send PMs yet!

The digesticare you linked me, which is by 'paws blackmores' has a multivitamin too which is this:
Paw Wellness And Vitality Multivitamin Chews 300g - Dog Health & Wellbeing - Dog

but i also found this:
Vets All Natural Health Chews Multivitamin With Prebiotic 270g - Dog Health & Wellbeing - Dog

What do you think of those?

I love the look of the sunday sundae and the feed-sentials but i think ill need something i can get asap from the store, while waiting for those ones to arrive from canada!
I cant find the kocci free in australia, and they wont ship to aus


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

Momto2GSDs said:


> I would be happy to help!
> 
> Moms


I can't PM because I haven't reached enough posts 
I've replied via here though


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

wick said:


> Mom2gsds is amazing, she always has correct and thorough information, always default to mom!


I agree, she's absolutely lovely!


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

amburger16 said:


> Agree with giardia posts. If the eliza test doesn't pick it up, and kocci free doesn't improve anything I would look into a nutriscan test (I think that is the name of it). It will tell you want he is intolerant to, and what to avoid. I had this same issue, 4 negative giardia tests and I finally switched him to raw, once adding some probiotics his GI is back to normal, no diarrhea. I'm assuming he had an intolerance to something in the kibble.


I can't get kocci free in australia 
Problem is, his diarrhea started when he was consuming a raw diet mixed with kibble at the time. So I haven't been able to reintroduce his raw food yet due to the persistent diarrhea.


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## amburger16 (May 22, 2015)

fortam said:


> I can't get kocci free in australia
> Problem is, his diarrhea started when he was consuming a raw diet mixed with kibble at the time. So I haven't been able to reintroduce his raw food yet due to the persistent diarrhea.


I don't know if this is sound advice, but I switched Bear cold turkey, he already had diarrhea, his GI was already angry. He lost alot of weight eating chicken and rice, he wouldnt eat the rice, and if i mixed it together he wouldnt eat it. It was my last shot before going through intolerance tests, then finding a food, then wasting money and time trying to figure out if it agreed with him, the more switches the more damage done.. It firmed up immediately, with the odd diarrhea in the first couple weeks. A few knowdlegable people on here suggested pro biotics and I haven't had an issue since. I hope something works out soon, it's such a painful process.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

fortam said:


> Nevermind, I'm too new a member, I can't send PMs yet!
> _*I've answered in colored text within your quote.*_
> The digesticare you linked me, which is by 'paws blackmores' has a multivitamin too which is this:
> Paw Wellness And Vitality Multivitamin Chews 300g - Dog Health & Wellbeing - Dog
> ...


 *The Hampl company in Australia is excellent! They can provide the following for Giardia:*
http://www.holisticanimalmedicines.com/store/heat_pad.html 
*Home page:* Dog & Pet Medications | Herbs For Horses | Animal Medicines 
*Expert Advise: *Contact Details - Natural animal medicine supplier 

*Black Hawk Kibble* made in Australia - suitable for All Life Stages:
Dog Food | BlackHawk Pet Care (copy and paste into browser)
Find a retailer: Retailers | BlackHawk Pet Care 

*K9 Natural Freeze Dried: *https://www.foodiepooch.com.au/product/k9-natural-freeze-dried-venison-2/ 
*
Barf:* Australian BARF Distributors

Hope this helps! 
Moms


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## fortam (Aug 20, 2015)

amburger16 said:


> I don't know if this is sound advice, but I switched Bear cold turkey, he already had diarrhea, his GI was already angry. He lost alot of weight eating chicken and rice, he wouldnt eat the rice, and if i mixed it together he wouldnt eat it. It was my last shot before going through intolerance tests, then finding a food, then wasting money and time trying to figure out if it agreed with him, the more switches the more damage done.. It firmed up immediately, with the odd diarrhea in the first couple weeks. A few knowdlegable people on here suggested pro biotics and I haven't had an issue since. I hope something works out soon, it's such a painful process.


yeah i have been struggling to put weight on forest since he got the diarrhea with chicken and rice 
But hes a pig so hes eating it all up like its the most high value food ever hahaha. I will get a test done soon, and if its not any of that, i may just do the cold turkey approach too if i can't find a good dry kibble that works for him 
its such a painful process, its killing me that hes so young.


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

Check for coccidia too. That does not come up on a normal fecal. There is a test for it if your vet did not already do that.


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## Maligator76 (Aug 31, 2015)

I would continue moving toward fully raw. I chased belly problems for almost 6 months before I switched. As soon as I did, his stools have been perfect ever since. The 50/50 raw/dry may be giving you the problems. Raw food digests much more quickly than dry, and that differential can cause problems. As long as the parasite tests come up normal, I would get off the fence and move to full raw. Raw is best! And Moms is the expert.. No doubt about it. She's a great resource.


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