# Dallas Indoor Dog Park bans Pit Bulls



## Smith3 (May 12, 2008)

- Link -



> Quote: A doggie dream park is opening up in Dallas, but not all tails are wagging.
> 
> Unleashed, a 50,000-square-foot indoor dog park that will offer a café and grooming services, is opening its facilities to all breeds but one: pit bulls.
> 
> ...


Can't say I quite agree with them as GSD's have been painted with the "aggressive breed" brush before (and who hasn't had someone "avoid" you when walking your GSD!)

I'd prefer a temperment test myself, as doesn't quite matter the breed, bad dogs are BAD DOGS.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I kind of disagree. A pit bull bite on a dog or a human may require significant repair -- same is true about a GSD. But pit bulls are bred to fight with other dogs. Dog parks where everyone is off lead, may not be the best place for untrained dogs, dogs bred to fight with other dogs, and owners who bring more than one dog per adult. 

A pit who gets into a fight with another pit is not necessarily a "bad dog." He is just not a good candidate for a dog park. Idiot owner. Idiot owner for bringing three dogs in training, and pulling the leashes and collars off against his better judgement. He should have left if he did not like the rule -- it is up to him to protect his dog and to protect the breed.


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## Papanapa (Mar 1, 2008)

Temp testing before ANY dog is allowed in is definitely a safer way to go about this. My mutt Nike would take on ANY other dog in a second, but Marley (GSD) would run the other way as fast as she could.

The breed is not the main factor, it's the personality of the dog in general.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

So how do you regulate TTing? That would cost money. It is much easier to say pitties and pit mixes, not welcome. Sad, but people who buy pits and who get pit mixes, know what their dogs were bred for. 

I know there are those of you who have great, well socialized dogs that would never have a problem. But you have to look at this from the perpective of the owner of the park. People WILL sue her. I see where she is coming from.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

My GSD as well as pretty much every other dog at the park got attacked by a 20 pound beagle yesterday while the owner just sat and watched. Every time a dog crossed paths with this beagle it charged the closest dog it could get to. Maybe they should consider banning all beagles from the park as well.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Why don't they just require that these dogs wear a muzzle?

In Mississauga all Pit Bull have to wear a muzzle. At one dog park that I used to go to I saw a pair of greyhouds that their owner had muzzled them. She said it is because they nip when chacing something. Didn't bother them at all, nor did the other dogs even notice.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

This is an ongoing discussion among responsible Pit Bull owners: to dog park or not to dog park? I am in agreement with the overall consensus that while it is our job, as responsible Pit Bull owners, to educate the public on the Pit Bull breed, it is not always the wisest move to bring your Pit Bull to an off-leash dog park. 

While your Pit Bull may be well-trained and get along with all dogs, not all dogs get along with other dogs. All it takes is one person to see your Pit Bull play-chasing or play-tackling another dog before “aggressive dog” is applied to your Pit Bull.

I think if you read some National Breed Rescues on bringing pitties to dog parks, you will find the same thing.

We have been working on training and socializing Cash since Day 1. Cash is the sweetest pup in the world, loves everyone, and loves going to Petsmart, but I would not bring him to the dog park – on or off leash. - not knowing how the OTHER dogs act. Unfortunately, I know how peoples’ mentality it when it comes to Pit Bulls down here. 

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

http://www.ourpack.org/dogparks.html

http://www.pbrc.net/misc/DogParks.pdf

http://www.happypitbull.com/ownermanual/leashes.html

RE:


> Originally Posted By: MaryWAt one dog park that I used to go to I saw a pair of greyhouds that their owner had muzzled them. She said it is because they nip when chacing something.


In the first link, I think they address Greyhounds and Dog Parks.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Quote:John Boeglin, 49, went to Unleashed with his three rescue dogs -- a pit bull mix, a golden Shepherd and a Shar-Pei. Boeglin says his dogs are in training, and wanted to keep them on their leashes.
> 
> “Once we were inside they insisted leashes and collars come off,” Boeglin said. “We had a problem with the policy.”


*Then why didn't he LEAVE?!?!?* Instead, he goes ahead and unleashes his dogs - against _HIS_ better judgement.

I'm sorry but that's just one more STUPID dog (let alone Pit Bull) owner.


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## Nerrej (Jun 23, 2008)

How is it not their call? Find an insurance company that will insure pit bulls. the end. and yah tempermant test all dogs. the end


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted By: SouthernThistle
> 
> We have been working on training and socializing Cash since Day 1. Cash is the sweetest pup in the world, loves everyone, and loves going to Petsmart, but I would not bring him to the dog park – on or off leash. - not knowing how the OTHER dogs act. Unfortunately, I know how peoples’ mentality it when it comes to Pit Bulls down here.


What about your doberman and gsd? Does this only apply to you pit or to all of your dogs? I would assume people would have the same mentality towards gsd's and dobermans that they do towards pits.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> Originally Posted By: NerrejHow is it not their call? Find an insurance company that will insure pit bulls. the end.


And what if there aren't any?

Or what if you DO find one but the cost is SO great you would have to triple the fees you charge people?

It comes down to simple economics for the business owner.


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## Grims (Jul 3, 2008)

What I don't get is why would the park require you to unleash and collar your dog? I would feel very uncomfortable with that...i would want to ease my dog into a situation like that...not just toss him in and hope for the best.


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## LadyHawk (Jan 19, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: ShellyGTemp testing before ANY dog is allowed in is definitely a safer way to go about this. My mutt Nike would take on ANY other dog in a second, but Marley (GSD) would run the other way as fast as she could.
> 
> The breed is not the main factor, it's the personality of the dog in general.


I agree with Shelly- 

Unfortunately some one should also temp test some of the owners that go in there- stupid is as stupid does (as so eloquently put by Forrest Gump) 
I have more bite attempts from Chihuahuas than PB's as a matter of fact........but some of the owners?? WELL????


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Why did you assume this specific Pit Bull was trained to fight. I have three in my neighborhood and they are winderful dogs.

As for dog parks, most good trainers and breeders will highly recommend you avoid them with large dogs, be it a Pit, A GSD or a Dobie. 

And yes, the owner was stupid. Bringing three dogs in at once was a big mistake.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Did I say trained? I don't think I did. I said bred. There is a difference. This is also why the attitude is not the same for dobermans and GSDs. Neither of these dogs were bred specifically to fight other dogs. A well-socialized GSD would not see the other dogs at a dog park as predators after its herd. 

When staffies are shown, they will often square them up against other staffies. This is not to have a dog fight. This is to ensure that the proper temperament is displayed by the dog. That temperament is no shirking, pulling back, but fearlessly standing up to the other staffie. 

If you love beagles and you love rabbits, you would not put rabbits and beagles together in a dog park and just hope they all got along. Beagles are bred to go after small game. It is not fair to expect them display a sweet disposition toward a prey animal. 

Pit bulls, and many of the other bully breeds not mentioned, have been bred, not trained, to fight other dogs. This means they would be highly unlikely to back down if challenged by another dog. 

I am not saying that people should not be allowed to own pitts. I am saying that if a privately owned dog-business chooses to disallow an breed of dog for whatever reason, that is their right. 

I talked to a Corgi owner tonight. She was exiting from Milla's class when a maniacal GSD from Ninja's class lunged and barked and scared the daylight out of her as the GSD was entering and she was exiting the class. She was ticked. I agreed. She said that is why GSDs have such a bad reputation. I listened. She then said it was the same with pitts. Her pitt plays with her Corgi all the time, but people are afraid of it. 

So I found someone who owns a pitt and a corgi and asked her the question. Would you take the pitt to a dog park. She said no way. Her dog is great with her corgi, but it would be a mistake turning her loose in a dog park. This is a well-socialized, trained pitt with good, responsible owners, and who is a sweetheart with people and plays regularly with her own dog.


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## L_Dan (Mar 8, 2006)

I agree with selzer all the way. If the business so chooses (for whatever reason) so be it.

I have the same question as Axxel. Why require unleashing? What is that about? It's opposite of what I'm used to. Some parks we camp in require leashes for all dogs whether they are in your hand or on a stake. I don't think anyone would "make" me unleash my dog...I would leave as some have suggested.

So, I think I'll open a bar and "require" anyone who comes in to smoke cigarettes or cigars...if you are not smoking, you must start or leave.


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## Remo (Sep 8, 2004)

Actually most fenced in dog parks do not want you to have your dog on a leash once you are inside. I have never heard of taking the collar off - most dog parks I have been to require your dog to be wearing a collar with the county and rabies tags attached to it. 

I think it is because it is too easy for your dog to feel ganged up on by the other dogs who are off leash. A lot of dogs who have leash aggression are just fine as soon as they are unclipped from the lead.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: Lucy Dog
> 
> What about your doberman and gsd? Does this only apply to you pit or to all of your dogs? I would assume people would have the same mentality towards gsd's and dobermans that they do towards pits.


Both my Doberman (Uno) and my older German Shepherd (Tobey), of which I've spoken before, have passed away (see signature line), but your assumption is incorrect.

Cash is also being socialized...with various people at our home and our yard. As he is still young and doesn't have all of his vaccinations, we don't take him many places in the "outside world." 

However, you take a German Shepherd out in public, and you take a Pit Bull out in public....which one is pet more/complimented on? I can tell you, and it's not the Pit Bull. When we do take them both out, it is usually to Bruster's for a Puppy Cup Sundae. I am sure it is no surprise that while both pups are well-mannered, patient, quiet, and sit nicely, the parents will still jerk their kids by the arm away from us....even if they were never near us to begin with....because Cash is a Pit Bull. I know this because they specifically say, "Stay away from the Pit Bull." (Then they see him eat his ice cream....and a few of them change their mind







)



> Originally Posted By: selzer
> Pit bulls, and many of the other bully breeds not mentioned, have been bred, not trained, to fight other dogs. This means they would be highly unlikely to back down if challenged by another dog.


Actually, they were bred to bring down large bulls, etc. for butchers and farmers. It wasn't until people thought it was "fun" for the dogs to do so....that they started making bull baiting sport. I guess when bull baiting lost its pizazz is when they started being bred and trained to fight dogs (but not all Pit Bulls, etc. were bred and trained to fight dogs). Some bloodlines are specifically known to be that of "fighters."


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I would say no leash because, God forbid, two dogs DO start fighting... if one is attached to a leash you'd be much closer (although, at the same time you would be able to pull your dog away.) I think it's just too sticky. Plus, the leash could get tangled and injury someone or a dog. Collars, too. There are plenty of people on this board who have had their dogs get tangled in each other collars. This can cause a dog to choke and potentially suffocate if the problem is not noticed soon enough. Plus, if your dog got tangled with a stranger's dog you don't know how that dog will react to your help.

I think that, obviously, temp testing would be best but I can see how it would be impractical. It's unfortunate that this has happened but I have to agree with selzer. No matter how a pit bull is currently trained somewhere in its history its ancestors were bred because of their aggression toward other dogs. While I know they were not bred to attack humans (quite the opposite in fact), somewhere in their brain there is still a high possibility for the dog to attack when it is threatened or bullied or whatever. It's awful, but its the truth.

This is a private business and they do legally have the right to refuse service if they feel it is in the best interest of their clients. While I wish there was another day to evaluate by individual dog, rather than breed, it's not that simple and it cannot be cheap... otherwise I feel as though that option would have been considered.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Pit Bulls that were trained to fight, were only trained by the low lifes on this planet. If I was more direct, althought factually correct, I would be advised to leave this board. That is unfortunate.

As for dog parks, do you even realize that most good breeders and trainers advise their dogs never visit a dog park.

Why, lord knows you can figure that out for yourself. But when a Jack Russell bites a GSD on the ankle; guess what, the GSD might react.


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## george1990 (Nov 24, 2008)

Pit bulls were in fact bred to fight and they have a long history of doing so. Yeah, they bull-baited, but far and above, their purpose was to kill other dogs. Although that trait is being watered down, that aspect persists and many responsible pit bull owners know this. No responsible pit bull owner, who knows of the pit bull past, would bring their dogs to an offleash dog park. 

The main criticism I have, however, is how they will classify what a pit bull is. Other dogs do resemble pit bulls, but are not as DA.


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

You mean "pit bull" in lowercase letters pertaining to any dog bred to fight/bring down a bull in the "pit"? Can be a mastiff or any mongrel breed. Funny thing is, "real" Pit Bulls were never the huge ugly over-sized beasts being bred today by BYBers.


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## george1990 (Nov 24, 2008)

APBT is the only "pit bull" to a dogman, it's the same thing as Pit Bull. Only with recent media and legislation has multiple breeds been classified as a "pit bull." 

An American Bully should never be called a pit bull, IMO. Two completely different dogs.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

From what I have read bull dog used to be a fairly big dog and was used to work with cattle. In England, they decided that bulls killed when "excited" would have better meat so they started bull baiting. It was considered a sport and a dog's worth was measured by how well he faced the bull, and when thrown whether he got back up and went back to the bull. 

At some point dogs were put in a pit with the bull. I cannot even imagine that. Whether dog fighting had started or not by the time they banned bull baiting I do not know. 

Pit bull dogs originated when they took the power of a bull dog and mixed it with the tenacity of a terrier. They called them pit bull terriers. I have always understood that these dogs were deliberately bred as dog fighters, but I could be wrong. I have never owned the breeds and I never will, so I have not spent a lot of time researching them. 

There is a whole group of dogs I would never take to a dog park. Pit bull dogs or American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Akitas, Cane Corsos, Dogo Argentina, and several others. 

Dogs fight. Shepherds fight. They react. A shepherd though, unless specifically tought to continue until told to stop, is unlikely to continue tearing into another dog or person. The dogs bred for fighting, are bred specifically for that tenacity that will keep them going and going and going like an energizer bunny. Who wants to see that? The only exception to this is bitches living in the same household. I do not know if they will ever stop until someone is dead in some instances. 

I know people who have pitties and think they are the cat's meow. I am sure they are great dogs. Unfortunately, they have an awful reputation that goes before them wherever they go. The owner of the dog park is not going to care whether the dogs are likely to fight because of the breeding, their breed, or their environment. He/She is not going to give each owner an IQ and dog ownership test before letting them into their park. She is simply goint to ban the breed and kick out anything she thinks looks like one to her. If she if footing the bill for insurance, and runs the risk of being sued, its her call. 

If pitt owners want to show the world they can be trusted, they need to do something differently than what they are currently doing. Unfortunately, the breed is so popular that so many creepy crawlers own them. It is an uphill battle. Trying to force the issue with a dog park is extremely premature at this point. The chances of an irresponsible owner bringing a reactive or aggressive dog in are too great. And it will set you all back even farther.


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## george1990 (Nov 24, 2008)

Good post, I pretty much agree with all said. Again, dog aggression is pretty much in a APBT's blood. Many owners have a hard time crate-rotating their pit bulls and other dogs because they simply can't risk them being together unsupervised. Cruise some APBT forums for a couple minutes and you'll see how they have a hard time letting their dogs around others... where these forums look down on dog parks, a lot of responsible APBT owners abhor them. Again, they're GREAT with humans of all kinds, but animals? Not so much. A park FULL of them, with small dogs running around and bonehead owners and energetic dogs who go to the park FOR exercise and to let off steam? **** no.


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## lucinde (Oct 13, 2008)

Here in Denmark Pit Bulls are illegal..


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## Donald Bessey (Feb 21, 2009)

Its not that pit bulls are bad dogs its that they have a much higher potential to do harm. There bite force is higher and so is there strength. Pit bulls have gotten a bad name because of some of the people who own them who shouldnt.


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## Timber1 (May 19, 2007)

Your comments I do agree with. My Ex brought home a pit bull many years ago when my daughter was about three years old. She would get up on the couch and jump on the dog. The dog was great and never as much as growled; however, one bite could have been serious.

So the dog was returned to the breeder.


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## L_Dan (Mar 8, 2006)

Whether bred for fighting or for size and strength of another purpose, I will keep my German Shepherd on leash if there are other loose dogs around. I will protect my dog as I believe he would protect me depending on the situation.

Having him on a leash gives me control to get between him and the approaching dog. In doing so, I have time to determine the intent of the approaching dog. I will protect my dog, I might need to protect the other dog, and potentially, I will severely hurt the attacking dog to whatever extent is necessary.

I don't like dog parks. I am happy I live where I can walk my dog anywhere and turn him loose to exercise off-leash without other dogs in confined places.


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