# Tracking /trailing dogs: working negatives



## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hey everyone just was curious how many people work their scent discriminate dogs on negatives? I know it is important and have started my girl on short bouts of negative tracks. Cast her the length of her 30ft line, allow her to range a circle. When she questions where the trail/scent is I ask her to sit, praise her and then walk her to close to the actual trail, cast her again and let her take the actual trail and her find of the subject. 

She isn't fully aware what negative space is or at least she isn't comfortable in it, yet. She is still green. But boy is it obvious when she hits the scent trail, lol her tail goes in a circle and she like bunny hops in the backend (especially if it is someone she likes). 

I am just curious how many train negatives and if so, what variations do you use?


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Forgot to mention this is for SAR, but for those that do tracking for IPO, or other titles I'm curious how or if you do it


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Bump.... I find it hard to believe nobody in tracking or trailing doesn't work negatives... I'm really interested in others experience and methods... Speaking up!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

So I just finished a negative with Areli. She took the scent article and pulled hard but her normal tail pop and bunny hop in the hind end when she has the track was missing. She pulled and I let her cast about 45ft either way. Once I knew she did not have a track (she couldn't as my subject will lay the track down later today) and she was pulling hard to find it. I told her to sit and rewarded her. She was very confused and frustrated when told to go back in the car. I was going to work the negative with my other dog who I am working with as an area search dog but currently is scent discriminate, but she wouldn't load and he was amped to try....... So all I need to do is launch him in the wrong direction a bit and let him work some negative space. Once he comes back to me I will redeploy him on the correct path and let him have the find... Not quite what my plan is, as a negative should not have a find at the end, but next time I will just do one at a time Korea have help, lol) 

I noticed a marked confusion in Areli. She is clingy right now, and directly after the negative exercise, I noticed she searched everywhere for a scent trail when we got home. So when she finds her subject later today, she should be pretty berserk about it finding her 'lost' subject, haha.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

An interesting thing happened working the positive... Normally, Areli hits the track so hard and fast I can barely keep up (until I get a harness for her I can't check her). After working the negative and having a 2hr break, when she worked the actual subject track ( the positive) she slowed about half as fast, meaning I jogged or jogged fast rather then a break neck sprint, lol! She took the scent and I could see a maturity coming... Very cool!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

A funny hung happened after the last practice session with the pups. Areli had worked a negative earlier then several hours later a positive and found her subject quickly. I had her 'find' the car back (she long trotted pretty much straight to it and sat by it looking smug and proud, lol). I put her in and had Akivah work the track. Although I had the subject walk out another 4 minutes from previous spot. He is scent specific area search (and learning to be not discriminate as well). He did his search and outside of a quick potty break found his subject and even did a refund alert with my having to call him (good boy!). 

So I walk back to car and let Areli out (who unbeknownst to me had decided my seat belt need not be in one piece any longer  ) and let the two play. Areli IMMEDIATELY took the trail Akivah had just done and followed the old trail she had done (same subject) earlier and broke off where the new trail had been laid (for Akivah) and went to the tree my subject had hid behind for Akivah's turn!! I praised her and she kind of gave a shrug and a goofy smile then went and played with Akivah. It was like she was saying "I could have found her too. You can't trick me, ya know... Oh, by the way, your seat belt needs repair." 

I am continually impressed with dogs sense of smell and humor!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have been gone for a week and there are not too many here. I do not work a trailing dog but know they do work negative trails. Some ask for a "negative indication" and others read the dog and accept that they did not commit as the negative. Working negatives are a big part of HRD and airscent work and we always try to have a positive to end the day.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hi jocoyn. Did you mean not a lot of SAR trailing dogs? Yes, area search dogs work a lot negative space, but since they usually aren't scent specific (just scenting for any human) they can't really get into too much trouble (unless they start 'crittering' or dinking around, lol). Trailing dogs that don't learn to work negatives can get unsure and take a person on a path of any scent if they can't find the scent they are after. 

You are right about an alert or just being able to read if the dog is I'm negatives. This is the first few times I have worked negatives purposely and I am really liking the confidence and focus it brings to my pup. 

Today, when I cast her away from the hot trail, she confidently cast herself about a 45ft circle until she ran into the track. I am lucky, she tends to be pretty easy to read when on the trail compared to working negatives.... Just wish she would slow down, haha!


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## DinoBlue (Apr 11, 2007)

We only work air scent dogs so I have very limited exposure to trailing. I did some work with a blood hound handler, which was very interesting especially in urban settings, but most groups around this area (MD, VA, DC) are all air scent units. But I do read you thread


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Dinoblue, thanks for your reply  I'm kind of surprised that your area would have mostly area search dogs as I would think urban/suburban areas would be pretty profuse (although I bet you have some GORGEOUS wilderness areas!). My gsd/malamute Akivah is working area (although I started him scent discriminate, so he is having to learn to find non specific too) and it is neat to watch the difference between the two dogs work. Areli (full GSD) works with her nose down (occasionally up if wind/scent requires it), Akivah works with head up (down on occasion if scent/wind requires it). Both find their subjects with purpose and joy, but watching Akivah range and cover so much territory (tongue lolling out in joy) and Areli staying so close to the path taken (tail twirling and butt bouncing hot on the trail) is amazing.... Different techniques accomplishing the same thing.. So cool! 

Using the negatives I've noticed has already started to lock Areli down on a path. She always has been confident on a scent, but seeing her gain the confidence off the scent (knowing it is OK if she doesn't have a trail yet) makes her even easier to read when she finds the track. Akivah will 'run out' of the scent plume /cone and range to find it again, so i guess I could say (and please correct me if I'm wrong) area dogs tend to handle negatives a bit better naturally then a trailing/tracking dog due to the nature of how they work... So cool! Dogs are amazing


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

We work all our Aricent dogs scent specific...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Ohhh, that's cool... Shows you how different locations use different techniques... So if only scent specific (please forgive my ignorance on this), you would always need a scent article? Or are your dogs cross trained to locate any human and if a scent article is available, hone in on that scent? Basically a dual purpose trail/area dog?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Those dogs always use a scent article. It does appear to be more of a regional thing.... Theoretically they could work without a scent article just like a trailing dog can do a missing man line up and work without one but it is not something we have encountered a need to do nor do we train for that so if you don't train for it you don't do it. We have access to nonspecific dogs from other teams that we can use on mutual aid


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

That's cool  Really is interesting to see the difference location necessity brings to the training. What type of call outs do you get mostly (if you don't mind my asking)? Wilderness or urban? Lost hiker or lost kid/dementia patients? Just curious as to geographical trends in missing people ; if there is a difference


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

More lost kid or dementia....contaminated search areas...homes in area...people in vicinity...fewer true wilderness calls with gps and cellular technologies


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Same in our area... Makes a scent discriminate dog highly valuable (and oh so much fun, lol)... On a side note... I was reading through a thread about SAR training, and you had mentioned the loss of your mother. I know it has been several months since that time, and I don't mean to resurrect any pain, but I did want to express my thoughts and prayers are for you and your family.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Thank you. We were and are at peace with her passing. We know it was a relief to her to be freed from her failing body and we feel blessed that we were able to keep her home with us and well cared for and loved for the 7 years after her stroke.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Worked the pups at the ski resort today. Most of the snow was gone. I had Akivah work first (he does scent specific area search) and changed things about a bit. While my subject was hiding I walked the pups in the opposite direction and let them explore and tried to calm them down as soon as they know they are going to 'find', they go ballistic. 

I tied Areli outside of the car (my seat belt won't last if I have another shark attack from a pup) and as soon as I pulled the scent article out all appearance of calm was shattered, lol. Akivah practically climbed my arm to get to it and was off.. He ranged really well and worked negative space on his own (the subject was hiding up a logging rode and a sharp 120° angle to the right and up a steep hill behind a tree, mountains all around (ski resort). The scent pooled in a Grove of trees and he ranged quite a bit and seemed perplexed. Once I knew he had covered the area well I sent him the opposite direction (towards the subject, although I didn't know where she was hiding) and he ranged beautifully covering back behind me and back up, he bypassed her by about 30ft,but the wind was to my back and I know he was on the scent. He doubled back and elatedly found her. He forgot to remind alert, so I called him and he alerted and then returned for his reward. Good boy Akivah! 

Areli was going bananas at the car and thankfully behaved herself and no claw marks were found (whew!). My subject walked back with me and then descended the main road down and to an open field of about 10acres with trees surrounding the whole perimeter. Due to shoes worn, she didn't want to traverse the acreage (which I asked she do), but walked a good length of the tree line and hid. I once again walked the dogs opposite and Areli tried to hit the old trail Akivah had just done. I called her off (3x) and she finally let go of it.... For the moment. 

After about 10 minutes, I tied Akivah (who now is having a fit) and Areli is ready to hit the trail again. I gave her the scent article and sent her the opposite direction in order to work some negative space and get my reading of her down well (although she is pretty darn obvious when she is on the scent). Prior, the wind was blowing upwind of the victim (which I wanted as I was hoping to see how she reacted to a challenge), however, while working negative scent area the wind shifted and she caught her scent about 40ft from where the trail would have picked up, so down the hill we went, hit the road and she cast herself side to side until she picked up the trail... After that, 90 miles an hour (have got to get her harness,!) over logs, around trees, tail wagging and butt hopping and we found her subject. I had her sit, as this will probably be her alert from now on... She got her reward and I may have found (cross fingers) a reward other than just food (and new smells, sometimes I think she is a bloodhound in a Shepherd coat) that really makes her feel special : her 'baby' a stuffed bear. GOOD GIRL ARELI! 

Both pups were happy... Oh... And the old trail that the subject took earlier, well on the walk back, as soon as Areli was close, she started off on it, again, not nose down like she is on the hunt, but kind of like she wants to see what Akivah got to do and prove that she could have done it too... This is becoming a ritual for her... Jealousy? Who knows...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Funny thing : took the pups for a walk today in a place I've had subjects hide (once, but it was a favorite person). As we near the places she hid the pups are looking in and around the place, bouncing around the tree like "BOO" but no one was there. Haha they seemed so sad that it was 'just' a walk... Good lord I've created search monsters...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Today we worked at the airport:

I had my subject walk a previously unused side so there would be not tainting of old trails (both pups have worked over old trails before, but I wanted to work her in negative space and allow her to find the trail...wanted to...). I did know her final placing but not the path she would take (outside of the side of forest). I aged the trail for 10 minutes... The trail ended up being over 3/10ths of a mile, although that was not on purpose.. just how she walked it

I tied Akivah outside of car and gave Areli the scent article.. I worked her away from where the trailhead was and over old trailheads to see what she would do.. I did restrict her going any further then a 45ft cast either direction. She quickly picked up the fresh trail and away we went... The trail began on asphalt and dived into downed brush, trees and deadfall (what fun..ugh). Areli was thoroughly hot on the trail when a black dog that looked awfully familiar darted onto the path.. AKIVAH!!!! The turkey busted his rope and decided he would 'help out' I don't think I was the most Christian (sorry Lord!) when I saw him bolt through.. I snagged him and trying to maintain my cool (which was not easy) walked him back to the car...practically dragging Areli who started to cast herself in front of me in thinking she had the wrong trail.. I threw him in the car (well not really, he weighs 82lbs) and tried to refocus myself. Areli was a bit doubtful at first when I recast her, she started the trailhead a bit early and cast herself through the underbrush for a bit, air scented a bit more, then BAM hit the scent trail again and once again we were off at 90mph (God is so good, I swear I managed to miss (most) of the downed logs and broken trees with my shins)... She worked back onto the asphalt (whichI thought might be air scenting although her nose was on the ground, but later found out after talking to the subject that she did walk back onto the asphalt then back into the woods, then across the asphalt to the opposite side - just like Areli did,yay!), back through the brush, back onto the asphalt to cross it to the other side, then right to the picnic table behind a group of trees to the subject.. YAY ARELI!!!

Akivah was let out of the car a bit shagrined for being so naughty earlier... Didn't take long to amp him up and lauch him.. Subject had moved 4 minute walk from her previous location; unknown to me where she was... Akivah quickly ranged air scenting, he went deep into the forest, back out, onto the asphalt, ranged midway through the forest, back onto the asphalt, caught the new scent of the new location and set off to find her on the new side (good boy Akivah). He found her quickly, and started to come to me for a refind alert, however, I did still have to call him to make sure he committed to it. He gave his alert (minus the bark, oops) and 'found her' again.... GOOD PUPPIES!!!!! I'm tired...lol


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sounds like you had quite an adventure. Training two at once. ow.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Lol! Yes indeed! I will focus on one at group trainings, but will continue to progress the other as well. They both LOVE the game. Thankfully I don't have to run as much with Akivah being area search, lol! Don't know what I would do if both were trail and wanted to run! YIKES!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Areli received her new harness today! Yay! Now I won't be choking her while she is hot on the trail! It needs to be broken in a bit and adjusted perhaps ; will know more when she has her head down sniffing a trail... Sure wish she weren't such a sour puss about pictures, lol!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Had a new subject today (a student) and before her lesson she was willing to hide. Went to airport and she had a 7 minute walk out. This would be Areli's first chance to use her harness... 

Both dogs were having breakdowns wanting to be first... Areli went first and started off strong, although I noticed she wanted to air scent (probably due to the start stop situation a couple days prior) first which is highly abnormal for her. She went about 50ft and dropped her nose and started tracking. Several times she air scented when I knew she could have been trailing, but went into a deep culvert and the scent got trapped there... She did work her way out of the pooled scent and got up and out of the (steep and deep) gulley. She was obviously on track when she suddenly lost it.. I could tell she still had vague swirls of scent but was walking out of it... I decided to work her back to where the scent was strong as we were on a time limit (poor decision making on my side... Bad owner bad owner)... About 30 yards from car, Akivah honked the horn! Turkey! I knew that my subject would think I was calling her in, so I quickly threw Areli in the car and sent Akivah out as he could run faster than me and hopefully catch her before she made her way back.... Sure enough they met midway.... Due to time I wrapped up the session.. 

Feeling terrible for setting my dogs up so poorly and pulling Areli off early, I set up another scenario a couple of hours later - with no time limits! I had my subject do a 4 minute walk out on unknown territory with steep Hills. I cast Areli out on negative trail about 10 yards from the trail.. I could tell she was a bit insecure and wanted to air scent (bad owner bad owner). I wouldn't let her follow the air scent path and cast her towards the know trail. She dropped her nose and followed it up a steep steep hill at her usual run (good Lord I'm getting in good shape!) and found her subject in quick order.. She was happy, confident and content (whew! Dodged a stupid bullet on that one... Lesson learned) 

Akivah was ready to go when we got back and I loaded Areli (who spring loaded back out the moment she knew Akivah was going out), again... Akivah took the scent and ranged up the road and past the trailhead (which makes sense as the subject was high against a hill, the wind blowing into the hill) he doubled back and caught a scent and loved on up the trail. He ranged to the left of where the subject was then to the right, a quick head pop and whip around told me he had run into a strong plume and he raced up the hill. I could tell he didn't want to run back up the hill, as he cast a look at me like "I know you can see her! She's found! Do I really have to refind?" I called him to me and he muttered a "woof" and dragged his tired body up the steep hill again for his treats... Both pups were happy and are contentedly sleeping... Team training tomorrow..


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Pups have worked everyday since Friday, but I will post on the two most interesting...

Saturday we trained at the Sheriff's TrainingFacility.. After we had done some interesting and fun group work I had Areli do a track. My brother was the subject. He started from the parking lot which was right by the building and walked the sidewalk along the building to the end of it (the building) turne to the right along the building and then crossed onto the huge field and hid behind a shed about 500ft from the building behind a large debris pile. My brother had entered the building prior, and there was a portico for the entrance.... I launched Areli in a mild way as I wasn't really sure how she would handle the concrete, car exhaust, scent pool along the building etc... I figured I would really amp her up at the end of the building if she was lost.... She wasn't.. She pulled close to the building and tracked to the portico/entrance, she circled a few times and I did semi lead her (took two steps in the direction of the trail) after about 15 seconds (people were stilll coming in and out and I didn't want extra confusion) and she continued her path, nose down with occassional lifts (it was windy) down the building to the chain link fence and edge of building. A young man who looked like my brother was walking towards us along the chain link fence on the outside of the field (basically to our left) she air scented and dismissed him, dropped her nose and went through the opening of the gate across the asphalt to the grass of the field and hit a run. She went straight to the shed, over the debris and right to the subject... YAY ARELI!!!

Afterwards, we walked into the building and to the gym... I had my brother enter the gym and hide down the end behind the bleachers and a trash can... We entered and Areli got unsteady on the slippery floor (she also was nervous about crossing the lines)... I had released her from her line, but put it back on and asked her to walk with me, she immediately did, caught his scent and forgot about any slippery floor... she found him (I was trying to grid her a bit as it was a sizeable gym and I figured she could get used to the footing better, but she went straight to the source) and chased her 'baby' with delight... I did the same exercise in the gym with Akivah - he had no issues with the floor and found my brother - he gave a moderate alert as we were only feet from the subject and enjoyed his treat... Good boy Akivah!

Today I had 2 subjects walk side by side on a trail with numerous paths, switchbacks and a dense forest all around.. They walked to a fork and then walked circles (unbeknownst to me) before each taking a different path.. Both subjects are loved by the pups and one is used often as a subject... I launched Areli and she quickly found the path and set off at a fast jog.. I did know which subject took which path but not where they finished or were hidden... Areli bypassed the fork of her subject and continued on the path of the subject she normally works... I noted that while strong on the scent, she did not do her normal tail twirl or bunny hop bounce with her butt... She followed the track of the (wrong) subject right to her, taking several switchbacks and turns (about a 1/5 of a mile). She found the subject and wiggled with delight but received no joy from the subject or me... She looked a bit confused, I said "there is more, find her" and shestarted back down the path we had come.. She did want to cut off the path and drop down a different way, but I had her retrace her steps - she led the way nose down (basically, I just prevented her from cutting off to a new path "air scent to the path") to the fork and immediately took the correct fork, bunny hop and tail twirl obvious.. she followed this path (at her fast trot me gasping behind her... hey, there werehills!) and stopped suddely and alerted in the dense part of the forest, a large tree with a dark overhang of branches.. She seemed like she was on the scent, but she was so cautious about entering i started to wonder if she saw an animal... I encouraged her to find her subject and she would take a half step forward and stop... I asked her to work down the trail a bit and approach the area from the opposite side (her choice when to stop), again she alerted and cautiously moved a step forward... I then saw a flash of blue, the jacket of the subject, and knew it was safe.. I undid the line and told her to 'find her' and she moved with confidence and delight to her subject... I wonder now if she was cautious about the line being tangled, or just needed to be absolutely sure that the sound/scent/movement whatever that concerned her was what she wanted to find... YAY ARELI!!!

Akivah was then set loose for the other subject and quickly took the correct path (the subject most familiar with) and found her... He crittered twice... but gave a strong refind alert..... Quick note on a subjects job... Yesterday, this same subject was used... Akivah found her extremely quickly... HOWEVER, she did not let me know with a 'dog in' or 'he found me' and when I saw him run back to me with his tongue lolling out, and then took the other switchback, I figured he had eliminated that trail... WRONG! We'found' her again 15 minutes later when he wanted to find her.. the turkey! He had found her to quickly and blew through his alert... The second time he found her I heard her say 'dog in' and he gave a strong refind alert.. so I am pretty sure the little brat wanted to play longer.....hmmm.... learning curve, lol


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Had a new subject the pups hadn't ever seen before. I had the subject walk a specific path along a fence line, into a pasture, double back midway through the pasture follow along another fence and finally hunker down behind a much pile facing a barn. I set her off on a semi negative cast and allowed her to circle and find her way. Once she found the track, her cute little tail twirl and bunny hop occurred and she was off at a steady trot... 

As we passed along the fence line, a family member came into view and saw her and yelled a 'Go Areli!' this disturbance of a beloved family member caused her to veer off the track. I quickly stopped her and told her to get to work and she quickly picked up the trail and continued on... Once in the pasture she ran out of trail (where the subject had doubled back over her tracks) and she paused a split second turned around and continued on the path, reacquired the path along the fence and followed it to the mulch pile and her subject... Very proud of baby girl! At 11 months old and having been only doing this for a couple of months she has passed my expectations and she thoroughly loves it... 

I had Akivah work a familiar scent but the first time working it. This subject wandered all over and finally hid behind a bunch of tractor tires.. Akivah took the scent and in his usual exuberance bounced around a bit before finally taking off.. He hunkered down to his task and ranged beautifully, eliminating directions and finding his plume.. Once he caught a strong scent he turned and saw her through a rim of a tire and trotted over realized he needed to do a refind alert and came to me... I think he might want to do a jump alert over bark (ugh) as he is getting closer and closer to jumping on me and only muttering his bark... We will see... Anyhow he re found his subject and received his reward... A goofy smile and a proud pup... For having malamute in him, I'm very pleased with his work ethic... Having a bit of focus issues at times, but he just turned a year and has been doing this only a very short time.. I think it is just a stage as he never quits and so I'm pretty sure he will move through it.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Was at a friend's house today and after they had a lesson their daughter hid for the pups. Since it was there home, this girl scent was everywhere and I knew it would be a challenge. 

I told her to head up and out of the pasture (where the arena was) and towards the house, then down their dirt/gravel driveway to the other pasture, through it and down to the creek and hide somewhere in the dense brush. I had the subject mark a spot in the grass where the track would begin... (a quick note, before laying this track she had to head the same direction to the house to the stable area to out her horse up... Not sure how either pup was able to know that a track was being laid, but Areli started sniffing around including the jacket laid on the post to be used as a scent article.. The mom who is NOT a do person commented on how Areli especially seemed to suddenly start sniffing and acting like she was looking for a track... Interesting how sensitive dogs can be!) 

I tried Akivah and put Areli's harness on and led her to the start of the track as the contamination of her scent was everywhere.. Areli immediately cast herself forward and side to side to isolate the path she wanted to follow and started up the hill towards the house. The subjects brother was walking towards us on the path (not planned but great for seeing a distraction) to talk to the mom, Areli air scented to be sure he wasn't her target and contined on up to the stable area. She cast herself the length of the line (I didn't allow more as the area was so polluted with recent scent of the subject) around cars and down towards the other pasture... She entered the pasture then came back out and debated the scent trail on the outside of the pasture (possibly wind, but could have been heavily traversed scent of subject from previous walks) but opted for the pasture (good girl  ), she trotted through the pasture and under the hot wire (which I had asked to be turned off but am not sure if it was... I rolled under it like a ninja... Sort of) and air scented the subject (her nose had been to the track up until then) and her pace went to a run.. She ducked into the heavy brush and found her quarry and goodies... Everyone (including me) was impressed with her focus... Their noses are so freaking amazing!!! 

I tied Areli and let Akivah loose.. I brought him to the start of the track and gave him the scent article.. He jumped on me a few times in excitement (ugh) and began to range beautifully up the pasture to the stables, he quickly eliminated the stables, cars, house area and moved towards the pasture... He ranged through the pasture under the hot wire (I ducked this time - no ninja moves) and down to the left of where the subject was.. However, I know he caught her scent because his nose went up with typical head pop and he eye lined the spot but decided to do a quick crittering to the left.. I called him on it and he found the subject, I called him and he gave his refind alert with less than what I want in enthusiasm and took me to the subject.. The subject unfortunately would not give a good excited reward... She didn't with Areli either, but Areli is highly driven by the scent and the challenge... Akivah is gaining a better work ethic but is still immature in his confidence.. I tried to bolster him some and he enjoyed his treats... Good boy Akivah! 

Quick note (and anyone reading please feel free to join in With your experiences and thoughts! This is why I post these in the hopes for feedback  ) : Akivah needs to be done first as he frys himself barking and fretting when Areli goes first.. Much much better refind alerts when he is done first... I need to spend some one on one time with him and try to build his confidence. His ability is there and usually his focus... Just recently when he has consistently gone last have I noticed his desire to critter or less enthusiasm in his alerts...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Worked Akivah alone today... Took him for a walk and a car ride solo.. Had a favorite subject (boy do I need new subjects, lol) come along to a new area and do a fairly easy hide - no scent article (he knew her scent but also want him working without scent articles too). He got out of the car ready to work... 

It was at a church with a large pasture, some burn piles (not burned yet), and a stream behind it. He ranged to the building, around it and through the different halls and portico... He then took to the pasture and ranged nicely there.. As we neared the creek I could see the subject hunkered down in a low section of land and a Grove of trees. Akivah passed her by about 30 yards and ranged a little beyond, turned around and came back caught her scent and ran to her... He gave a decent refind alert and got his goodies... Since he was being rebuilt from yesterday's less than enthusiastic reward, I did a couple of runaways... He was delighted and it helped get his refind alert a bit more solid... He got extra goodies and an obvious bounce in his step was back.. 

Areli was worked with another group and one member from my team. There were 3 new members who had Shepherds and were doing runaways for air scent. Areli and my team member and the gentleman from the other team were working trail problems
... We worked his dog (of which I was the subject) and the two Shepherds on runaways all around the area Areli would be set to work in - which was fine as it taught me a valuable lesson.. 

When it was time for Areli, the subject of whom she had never met, or seen before went to hide and the gentleman from the other team helped her get placed. I honestly was nervous as this would be the first time Areli worked in front of a team member in trailing, along with having 3 other people I didn't know at all following behind (and worse, Areli had liquid diarrhea all morning do to eating something out of the trash! She was looking a bit peeked but her appetite was fine (chicken and rice) and while tired she wasn't acting crampy))... Anyhow I harnessed her up and gave her the scent article... BUT, rather than cast her in a circle and let her take in the scents, I let her pull forward into a scent, but one of the older tracks her subject had inadvertently laid while wandering around and doing runaways... I was told she was off, and recast her on the path, she took to the opposite side where the subject had been also, and while on the scent she didn't give me her usual tail pop and bunny hop tells... So I don't know if she knew something wasn't right or if I was telegraphing nerves.... Anyhow, I was told again she was off... Normally I would have let her work through the scent trail as it would have ended and she would have found the correct track, but I felt pressured to perform and so cast her to the other side where she picked up the scent again... This time the most recent track, and followed it to her subject... 

Because I screwed up and set my dog up so badly (very good learning experience!) it was suggested to give her another track with just one big turn. The advice and comments given had already helped me know if needed to be a better partner for my dog so I put her harness on near the PLS and per a suggestion, had her eliminate the enteraouge following as their tracks were everywhere too... I did and then cast her towards the scent article and she hit the trail hot and solid (always helps to have a good start) and overshot her turn which I'm fine with as it as allowed in ttd (tracking through drive) because the dog is moving fast - before the comment could be finished about the overshot Areli had doubled back and corrected herself and was hot on the path again quickly finding her subject (good eyes on reading my dog on the gentleman's part.. He is not familiar with ttd training but he had good advice and experience I will utilize... Same with my team members)... Proud of my girl... If she can work well with my failings then she can go far! As long as I catch up, lol


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Worked the pups at a friends house... Windy, about 50°. I worked Akivah first... The subject was on a hill up wind of us... I used a grid type pattern so he could work some negatives around the house, backyard, pasture and ultimately up the hill... He stayed on task and while the winds were playing some weird games and became really still when he was near the subject (behind a burn pile) he found her and gave a good refind alert... Good boy Akivah! 

The same subject moved back to the backyard and started her track for Areli... She walked behind the house, by the road to the hill just walked and down the pasture fence line, turned left and walked the fence line to the marshy area at end of pasture...she ducked under fence and hid in the reeds... This time, I prepped Areli near the PLS and cast her the opposite way, she ranged a bit to the gloves (scent article) and found her track.. She took off at a steady jog and came to the hull, she trotted a few feet up and ran into a negative and turned around and started back on the track... The wind was to our back, so when she opted to duck under the barbed wire fence I knew the scent had probably pooled in the Grove of trees... I told her that she was off, but she was determined so I ducked under and let her run into the negative or out of scent.... She cast herself back under the fence (told her so, lol... One time I'm right) and found her trail and wanted to go... Unfortunately, I am now stuck in three places and hung up in barbed wire... Ouch! 2 minutes of dislodging myself while an impatient dog wants to find her subject... Freed, we moved forward fairly rapidly as she took her turns and headed to the marshy area, she really knew she was close and ran to her subject and sat for her treats and praise (forgot her toy again, darn it)... Considering she was still a bit under the weather and had a day before playing in the country with Akivah I was happy with her focus and performance... I learned a few things too... Although I need to work through how to apply them.. Lol..


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

The day I get it all together (consistently) we will be a rocking team! 

So I worked the pups at the airport today.. Variable winds about 55°F Akivah was first and he as his usual self, ranged nicely had a momentary 'must chase deer!' but a hard 'out!' had him stop and refocus.. He was obvious when he caught scent, gave a good refind alert (although I did still have to remind him to come to me) and nonchalantly took me back to his subject (a family member)... Was about a 1/3 of a mile - we didn't grid too much as he was a bit off his feed the other day and looked tired.. 

Poor Areli, if she could just get a handler that could work her as good as she is.... So I had the subject lay a trail that ended up being about 3/4 of a mile. She (barely) marked her turns and dropped two scent articles.. I cast Areli and she settled on the trail... MY BAD came when she tried to take a turn (could not see the marker) which was where I had initially let Akivah go for his search. Normally, Areli wants to find the subject Akivah just did - which in this case was the same subject, same location, but she was doing a track and Akivah was area - so I stopped her.... Grrrrrr... I will learn to trust my dog.. I will learn to trust my dog... I will learn to trust my dog.... The scent articles had been dropped I this turn and it's path so we missed those... Anyhow, my amazing dog was able to circle and pick up the trail a bit further up and gave her usual tells that she is on the scent... She lost it at a turn and circled the opposite direction back across the road back to the turn and worked her way up to the road again back to the turn and back to the road and settled on the direction - both were correct, the subject had (barely) marked her turn and had taken the road Areli chose... She continued at her steady trot and out onto the runway (wind was blowing at our backs, trail behind us so scent probably plumed that way). I circled her and she took herself back to the track and continued on.. She circled on or two other times and there was one moment I knew she was not really on the tracks scent (I believe it was to the right of us, however, the wind very well may have kept her in the scent cone), she did drift back to a strong scent alert and before I knew it, we were at the subject...  Now if I can just get better at my job... On a plus I know I handled my line better


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Am I really the only person doing tracking /trailing or works negatives?? Huh...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

No... A lot of folks don't post a lot about their training but are still doing it


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Probably, but I can't learn from anyone if they don't respond, lol! I was hoping people would be willing to share some of their experiences so I and others can learn too...


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## glowingtoadfly (Feb 28, 2014)

Am interested to read, following


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I've done enough trailing to be able to mess someone else up. I know the basics but have done nothing but HRD for the past 7 years. But for any discipline I would want to physically be there to watch the dog and the handler to really give any advice.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Lol! Well any experience can be a learning one! Not to mention the negative work done doing HRD... True, the thread title has to do with trailing, however working negatives is a HRD and area search dogs job as well.. Reading a dog and learning - be it trailing or otherwise is a never ending journey and I KNOW I could learn from your experience


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

About all I would say is (1) make sure you are working plenty of unknowns flanked by someone who understand scent movement and the problem set up and (2) as you increase negative time / problem size / trail length etc. mix it up so the dog never knows when to expect a quick find vs hard work....keeps up motivation


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thank you! Excellent advice! Especially as my track layers aren't really good at laying tracks I specifically request (following directions)... Having experienced eyes aid in catching my mistakes or helping me understand what may be happening will help keep me and my pups on track


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Went to a new area today and had my mom hide.... Unfortunately, she isn't the best at following directions (sigh) and so how close to the track Areli followed is unknown.. Both pups found her..

Akivah - Light breeze and about 50F Akivah gets so amped that getting him going (he wants to jump on me in anticipation) takes a few seconds... He took off and ranged a bit as expected... he then wanted to critter in two spots (really need to talk to my team and find out if it is lack of maturity/drive or just a plateau and how to move past this; open to suggestions from those with experience here too ) but with a quick 'get to work!' comlied and began ranging again. I did not know where my subject was, but the wind was to our face so I knew he had ample opportunity to catch the scent which he did... He bounded in to her (took about 7 minutes of searching about a 1/5 of a mile... It was a 10 minute walk out for my mom) and gave a good refind alert BUT, then he dinked around about taking me back to her!!! I really need to find out what is up with him... He had an enormous amount of drive just a few weeks ago so I don't know if he is at a plateau or what... team training this Saturday and a small group training tomorrow so I will ask and get help...

I had my mom walk another few minutes from her spot as I took Akivah back and got Areli ready... Areli, once released from her tie out, immediately raced to the track and started without me!!!!!! LOL! I had to call her back.. so much for working negatives haha...I harnessed her and tried to cast her the opposite direction several feet away from the track but she already had selected the track and was more than ready to get going.. She took off... Now, I had requested my subject (mom) to kick in hotspots and markers for up to 5 turns - none of which happened... I also asked her to drop a clue/scent article, which thankfully she did, although I requested it to be about 10-20paces after a turn and marker... Anyhow, Areli had several areas where she started one direction and doubled back - not negatives in the sense that she was off track, but a track that ran out of scent (later found out my mom started on a course then opted out of it- backtracked in a sense) - I cast Areli in a circle to see if she could find the track since there were no markers!! grr... She did go down one track that I was pretty sure was all negative - and I was correct... so I am reading her negatives better, yay! I doubled her back up that leg of the negative track and cast her circles until she picked up the correct path, my mom had marked one corner with neat little arrow which Areli in her speed past by about 5ft, but as is expected in ttd style of tracking/trailing, she neatly doubled back and continued on, about5ft past this turn a scent article was found and promptly picked up and proudly carried by Areli for about 15ft (a sock - yuck). I praised her and she was obviously quite pleased with herself (amazing how a clue/scent article perked her up - like a little assurance she was on the correct path), a few minutes later she passed my mom by about 5ft and whipped around with a jolly smile and wagging tail.. she did sit for alert and received her much due praise and treats... Mom was kindly but dogmatically asked to PLEASE remember to mark the turns... Putting word out to my church, and the school that I need subjects, lol!!!! GOOD PUPPIES!!!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Haven't posted in a few months but have been steadily working both pups. Akivah is about 16mos old and Areli is almost 15mos (14 mos and 2 wks or so). Both have started HRD. Akivah desperately needs to mature as he is such a fun loving boy he often prolongs an area search (not good).. So he will do HRD which he seems really good at and see if he matures further.. 

My focus is Areli though and wow, she is freaking AWESOME! She has been trailing /tracking since mid March and has done up to mile long urban, all sorts of suburban, distances of 2 mile + wilderness, up to 12hr aged problems, worked in the 104°f heat, worked across water (didn't have to swim or cross further than 30ft), been on a helicopter (loved it) been on a boat 2x and loved it (the most recent she even alerted (her first water alert) on a bubbly HRD), and is such a determined pup on the scent she astounds me sometimes.... Thankfully, my failings haven't hindered her too much, I hope, lol... 

I will try to keep posting as we are going to an ASCT conference in Oct and will potentially test for level I, II and perhaps III in trailing /tracking (there are 5 levels). Areli will be certified via NSDA and Shekinah K9 after I finish the academy in the fall (who says dogs aren't smarter then humans? She will be certified before me, lol!) and will test sometime thereafter. We are working mile long lightly aged (30 minutes to an hour or so usually as it is hard to get subjects willing to devote a whole day, lol), and once or twice a month a 12hr aged mile or so long track. We throw in some urban for distractions and different scents surroundings. 

Today was a mile+ wilderness with several water crossings a ton of hills and the contamination that comes from a CMO ride yesterday (tons of horses and other dogs, people and atv's traipsed all over the track). She had an article to find and ended up finding the subjects glasses she dropped as well (good girl Areli th eyes were prescription and half buried in fine dirt). She rocked it, even when the girls (had her sister hide with for protection out in them bad woods, ya know) crossed the river and got caught in a Glenn of low hanging branches (ugh and ouch... Sucked going through that, got snagged repeatedly) thinking a trail would magically appear.. Polluted the area with their scent, so Areli and I worked circles in that wonderful spot (ouch, ugh, grrr) for 20 minutes (most of that was me trying to untangle or not get an eye poked out while trying to keep Areli from pulling me through the branches. She got tired of 'wait' waaiitt' 'WAIT!' as I ducked, dived and scurried through the tangled mess). 

She knew they were on that side of the road and while we worked back up to a main path (which they took), helicopters flew overhead to try and gather water to put out the many MANY fires we have going (the air was brown and hard to breathe - not the best choice for working a problem but I take my opportunity when I get them as subjects are few and far between). I opted to take the articles back to the car as the glasses were in my back pocket and we were offroading it alot and I didn't want them broken. We took the same path (uphill alot, Yay, not) and went a bit further the wind was to our back, then our side, then our front, so lots of fun. She started several different paths but about 50ft in she would look at me like, "sorry, that's all the scent offered" and we would double back and continue on heading the correct direction. As we hit a lower portion and an open area she hit a huge scent plume and we hit the fire road again for about 10ft,dropped back down (figured it was time to get tangled again), crossed a foot depth of water and about 30ft across and up on a rise we found our subject.. Yay! 

I had the girls take the GPS, but they didn't mark the coordinates (really?) so the post track review was all via memory. Thankfully they are getting more observant. Areli was about 95%on until I pulled her off to deposit articles at car. She then went to about 80% as we skirted a couple different trails (about 50ft in) they didn't take. But I was proud as this was a double blind track and I had to have complete faith in my dog...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Figured I should a couple of pix of them as they are maturing nicely


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Areli during helicopter training loading and unloading hot. She loved it.. Jumped in bed with was even ready (she wanted a window seat, lol)


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Cool photos and congrats on the hot load!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sounds like you guys are having a great time!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks guys.. We are having a great time... Prepping for our testing in Oct.. Doing double blind, mile plus long lightly aged (20 minutes to 3 or so hrs) to medium aged (6-12hrs), with water crossings and or urban suburban tails... Can't wait until it is cooler though, lol... Ugh!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

The fires here are HORRIFIC and the smoke and ash in the air males it extremely hard to breathe let alone see... But training needs to continue... So we have done some training go in the Colville National Forest, usually a mile plus long with a half hour aging (don't want to leave my subject alone for too long with the fires and bad air), several water crossings etc.. Yesterday though, we (are) at the fair so an urban search was in order... 

Tons of contamination due to animals, people, cars and the horrid smoke.. Helicopters in the air constantly, etc... Did my girl care? Nope (outside of probably wanting to ride the helicopter, lol).. She hunkered down and moved purposely and methodically through the gates, parking lot, up the streets, down the street around Les Schwab to the backside of their building and to her subject... Yay Areli! 

Thank you to all firefighters!!! Especially those helping our state in dire need.. Your hard work and risk is super appreciated!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Extremely smokey here still, but a mile long blind close to 2hr aged track. SSW wind at 9mph with 15mph gusts. 20% humidity, dew point at 37°f... 

I harnessed/scented her and cast her and let her find the track. She found odor and moved steadily down a path next to the river and about 30ft from a fire road. She selected her course with confidence and when she ran out of odor and wanted to move forward we had a barbed wire fence to battle... She faired better then I, lol (I tend to wear a 8-10lb pack for conditioning purposes and water which doesn't like barbed wire fences). We moved up to the road and jogged on the main road for awhile, she veered to the west (left) and sniffed up the hill, she thought about going up bit opted to continue along the fire road... She paused and checked a couple of paths that led to the riverboat never committed.. A quarter mile further and she veered hard down a path and through some trees, and towards the river.. I'm snagged again by low branches (yay for trailing... Think area search people are smarter, lol) when I hear the praise coming from my subject, Areli dutifully sitting for her reward... 

Turns out, subject had taken the fire road a good distance (about 30ft from the river, lower, shaded and into the wind) before going West (left) up to 50ft from the road. A barbed wire fence prevented further climbing and the fence dropped closer to the road at different points. She then came down, crossed the fire road and down towards the river where she found her spot.. All in all, while not being dead on her tracks, for the conditions and weather I was well pleased. I think if my girl had taken the actual track (not the blown scent pooled track) she would have found the track that led up the hill. I was visually able to see the fence, she gave indication that odor was there, so I'm confident if someone had been lost we would have found them..yay Areli!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Worked an 8hr old aged urban trail yesterday... This one wasn't blind, but I was extra careful to allow her to follow the scent anywhere she needed to and not lead her in a direction... Smoke was still horrid (Lord we need rain!), 87f, 9mph saw, 29f dew point, 30%humidity... Areli located her track start after being cast and about 2 minutes worth of confirming the direction, she was off at a jog.. Hugged the buildings and made her first turn beautifully, jogged up the sidewalk past the next intersection and turn... I sooooo wanted to stop and cast her, but I applied pressure and then a little more, she learned into the harness so I was confident she was in odor... At the corner she stopped and.... Pooped... Nice.. Had a group of people watching her progress and smile only to have one of those jaw drop moments... My fault, I hadn't let her out to relieve herself before the track.. Thankfully I had a baggie and scooped it up and jogged to the trash can with said baggie (ewww) 

One block up from the actual track she turned left (north) and crossed the street, we progressed to an alley way where she turned left and dropped down to the street of the actual track (yay!! Was very glad I let her work it out as it confirmed she was in odor and working the scent on her own... Without my assistance - which is usually a hindrance, lol). We continued down the street and made a right (east) and up to the next Street. Crossed the intersection and left (north) over to the hospital, she again hugged the buildings and driveways turned right (east) and up to the gravel road behind the school. Here we jogged for a bit (north) before she wanted to investigate the 1/2acre lot of weeds and trees. As much as I didn't want to let her, I did.. She worked in about 15ft and gave clear negatives, but obvious odor was there, she worked around the area for about 2 minutes. When I applied a little line pressure in the direction of the road she turned and willingly moved out and reaquired the track... As we neared the front of the school she pulled to the right (east) and wanted to investigate.. Once again I allowed her the opportunity. She came to the first building and veered back to the open grass. A kid that was about the size of my subject was sitting 20yrds away and she intently starred at him... It took a couple of 'focus' for her to let go of the idea that this kid despite not smelling like her subject wasn't her subject.. She did let it go and jogged back to the gravel road onto the asphalt across the street and (east) up to the next road where she went left (North) and wanted to check out some odors behind an open pasture behind a building... Clear negative once she ran out of odor... She was getting hot but I knew we were getting close to the creek and she opted for the steady jog.. Back to the road and a left (west) down a long road and left again (south) own to her subject.. Yay! 

She encountered dogs, bikes, people, cars, cows (in pasture) and it was a solid mile long.. She got to play in the creek and share a vanilla ice cream with Akivah (who kept my subject safe during her wait)...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

35-40mph winds (up to 60mph gusts), smoke, haze and a few teasing drops of rain was what greeted us today for our track... Team training... I got lost getting there (oops) so my hour long aged track would have been a half hour later... But the winds had other plans. My subject was busy working area search problem and the winds blowing in no particular sustained direction was reeking havoc on the poor dogs nose and the smoke was making her GPS do some wonky things... So my now hour and a half track became a 3hr aged track... Hmm, a challenge.. 

We came to the PLS and I harnessed, and cast Areli who came to the glove scent article. She scented it and cast herself again.. She started down a lane at a jog only to stop 50ft in, reversed and chose another track an atv worn path.. We travelled that for about 100ft when my navigator said we were off track (also had 5 people from ESAR following and one other team member). Areli is pulling to go down hill but I restrain her and cast her around the area... She wants to go downhill... But I know she is air scenting, the wind is blowing everywhere... She tries several directions going about 15ft in before throwing clear negatives... My navigator suggests restarting and I agree (she gives some good advice reminding that this isn't a test but training).. I take her back, recast and she takes the earlier path she started but stopped on and continues (it is the correct track).. This track weaves everywhere and the wind has her following scent off track for awhile strong in the scent only to shoot out a negative and go another way... My navigator did a great job in saying little but giving well timed walks trying to see if direction of travel is akin to the GPS... Areli finds the track that has dipped into a gully, she hits it hard and strong (we lose our entrouge) the second article is found and she is confident.. I visually see our subject but Areli continues all the way to the atv road... Stops and reverses into the brush and back 175ft to our subject... 

I comment to the subject (a wonderful team member) about how horrible the winds are and she comments on how bad the smoke is messing with the GPS.. She couldn't find her way back to the tree she had marked and had to go down the atv road!!!! GOOD GIRL ARELI!

So, my girl had to work the aged track because she was made to, but she wanted to take the freshest track (as she should) to the subject... Whew! What a day!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I again encourage anyone who does tracking or trailing (very it competition or 'real world') to post their practices or learned happenings etc on this thread.. I post so others may (or may not) learn or be encouraged with the trials and triumphs that come with tracking /trailing.. I need to read about others too!!


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Am I following this right Hineni7. Is the idea of the negative to draw a clear picture you can recognize when your dog actually works the correct trail?


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Yes, essentially... As I'm sure you know (I enjoy reading your educational posts alot) reading your dog during tracking /trailing is imperative to knowing if they are in or out of odor/scent. Some dogs if encouraged to keep tracking when they pause or start casting themselves to locate stronger odor, or odor at all, get worried and start leading you off on a wild goose chase. By working negatives (or casting your dog in areas out of odor off track) and watching when your dog sends a 'negative' an indication that (s) /he has lost scent (usually the dog looks at you, head pops up looks around, etc) you praise them. Let them know it is OK if they run out of scent and to keep looking and acuire/require it.. Hopefully, the dog then is comfortable when a scent is lost and can stay focused in reaquiring it and not just pull in the harness and Forge ahead out of fear. 

Hope that makes sense, lol..


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I wonder how it would apply to footstep tracking, like in sport. The only thing I can think of that's similar is with flags. Putting a bunch of them out so he doesn't focus in on the one at the scent pad and try to drag right to it. Thats probably not even very close. So much of it is obedience, I can't really figure out how to make a comparison. When mine casts about with wind or something, I generally just stop and look for him to do what you mentioned, re- aquire it.

Its just so structured from the beginning on scent pads to going forward on a track. Even with cross tracks and different covers, it just doesnt have the variables. But the recognizable indication of on scent and off scent is something I always wondered about. I've never seen anyone explain the training of it like this.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hmm.. As I haven't done competition tracking and only know about it from a read about standpoint, I am not sure... I mean both scenarios (real world and competitive) require a dog to be read correctly. In real world tracking (I will call it trailing from here on out for ease of typing off my phone, lol) the dog is allowed to follow the strongest point of scent be it on or off the actual track. 'smooth negatives', or negatives where the dog runs out of scent but double back a few feet and continues on barely interrupting the forward flow, happens often. When a strong negative occurs it is usually due to the dog working fringe scent and missing a turn, or a broken chain in scent (as often it is very aged trails or over asphalt variable surface). In that case, knowing your dog is comfortable letting you know they have lost scent is crucial to not being pulled further down the wrong way due to fear of not having scent. The dog who alerts a negative allows us to post (stand still and allow the dog to cast themselves back over previously covered areas) until they reaquire the track. 

In competitive tracking I believe you are FST solely. So the dog is slow, methodical and probably doesn't cast much outside of the first initial cast to start.. Is that correct? You get points for how closely they stay on the exact track and the dogs nose staying on the ground... If I'm not mistaken. I can see how the negative might indirectly affect a score as I don't know how you direct a dog if they lose the track, unless you do cast at turns... If AKC tracking, I believe this would be very applicable as it is allowed to trail giving leeway for the dog to lift nose, overshoot, etc... Please educate me on the tracking for IPO or other titles... And please feel free to post about your tracks you run. My thread had become more about each track/trail I had done with or without negatives as I wasn't getting any responses and I want to learn


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, IPO is footstep to footstep. The beginning is at a scent pad that you want them to work, but not cast around. If they raise their head you'll lose points. The first two minutes of this is a little rough start. Yellow Jackets on the scent pad that he followed, and there's so many deer tracks, tire tracks, turkeys are always in there, you can see when he loses the track, I just stop, but I know pretty closely where the track is. If he was to quit working it, I would take him to where he left it and restart him there. Maybe even lightly correct him forward on it. Most of the time I'm only 6-12 feet behind him too. I go back to 33' once in a while, but for training, I'm mostly close enough to give him some input if I have to. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itKeLRYbJgY

I'm no where near an expert on tracking. Its something I'm always looking for help with.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

That was a great video to see exactly what and how you train  What was the distance the track length was? I also see you know the direction of travel, is this just in practice or also in competition (knowing the direction of travel?)? I would think you would have mild contamination in competition (deer, squirrels, turkey, etc.). Do you have human crosstracks as well? 

(we) don't tend to correct the dog for going off track unless it is purposely dinking around. Even then it is usually a mild correction as we don't want to kill the drive. Being able to recast a dog if they somehow lost the track is an asset.. But I can thoroughly see how much work and dedication it takes to train a good tracking dog. Your dog was so purposeful in each step (was he eating food on occasion as well, or just clacking his jaws? Couldn't tell for sure from the distance) and so good on the articles.. I haven't been good at teaching an alert (specific) for articles, Areli basically noses it and usually moves on or if it is a favorite person carries it (not good if in a criminal setting) for a bit.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks. It was 300 paces. Yeah, there's food here and there, usually after something like a change in the terrain or a corner. Its partially buried too, most of the time. You know the direction of the track on a 1 because you lay it and its one of 2 patterns. There's probably always going to be some contamination, but in that one area, there's a lot. 

Tracking's a lot of work, that's for sure. I'm always interested in hearing exactly how you guys train specific things in the real work. Its all pretty cool.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Yes the dogs nose and their ability to interpret what they smell is astonishing... Well, real world tracking/trailing is usually geared towards a purpose :locating a human, drugs, bombs, game etc... I've personally enjoyed TTD which allows the dog to move at the speed they are comfortable with (dogs can smell well in advance of their stride so jogging, even running is possible) and allows, even expects the dog to overshoot a corner or turn, BUT the dog will course correct in a few strides (smooth negatives). For me, food is only given when the subject is found. The dogs desire to track is never inhibited by speed or forced (otherwise it would become inconsistent, and for SAR work that would be life ending potentially). 

In ttd (tracking through drive to out a 'name' on it) the dog starts off with longer tracks then with FST, again, encouraging the dogs forward movement into the scent and channeling their prey and hunt drive into finding a given subject. We do start with known tracks and progress to blind tracks, no known direction of travel, contamination and of course urban and variable surfaces (although I introduced VST early on, like the first day, lol. Not asphalt, but grass to packed dirt to gravel)... Gradually the aging of the trails/tracks and combinations of aged, contamination, blind, distance, VST, etc to represent what will be crossed in an actual search... Hope that helps  at least how I train..


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Worked a 17hr old close to 2 mile aged track this morning.... Definitely learned I can not drive my subject back to the hiding spot and drive back to start my track... And expect my girl to start on the aged track and ignore the freshest scent that spilled out of the open window while placing my subject, lol... 

Anyhow, I cast her and she found the aged track start and moved forward on it with more pace than I expected. We crossed over the primitive road and since there was only one path I figured my subject took (the easiest) I was surprised when my girl stayed on the primitive road... I stopped her and cast her over the path.. She sniffed it and then jogged right back to the road... 'ok'.. Every once and awhile I would see other paths and cast her over them to see if we could acquire the older track as I was suspicious that she was on the spilled scent from the car (still would've been over a mile just on the primitive road but distance was only to build endurance, I wanted the aging)... Finally, about a half mile up I can't her over a path and she opted to take it; we were finally on the aged track... She flushed a turkey and would've chased it if she hadn't been reminded to focus, she did and continued well on the track... As we got to the river, she wanted to go side to side, we'll that wasn't going to work because it was deep in most places...she works off of a 33' line so I could allow her to work across the river a ways and be sure the scent continued that way instead of just spilling into the water way... She finally selected a spot across the river that had a solid scent trail, of course it had 2 large stones about 5' apart I had to leapfrog across... I did.. Yay... As I jogged up the hill and ducked under a tree I felt smug that I hadn't gotten wet (hey, age robs you of athleticism - and your confidence in yourself that you can do it)... Next thing I know I am knee deep in a muddy bog!! ARGH!! Survived not having it be a facial by an inch.. Fun... Areli didn't have any dirt on her, she must've jumped over it the little $#@t could have at least warned me, lol.. Outside of one low scent up a Ridge she wanted to investigate and I began to follow and whacked me knee on a limb ("no really, Areli, go ahead, make sure the scent doesn't continue... I'm just going to throw up right her" man that hurt!) there was no further instance.. We found our subject safe and secure, I left Areli to get praise and treats and went to the river for a bath! 

Not quite how I planned it, but I was pleased she did so well in both fresh and aged scent... Not to nurse my knee and take a shower...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Omgosh... Such a funny thing happened!.. So we did another close to 2mile blind track today.. Wind was 11mph from the south and cool (67f).. It was a hot track and Areli began well, she followed some fringe scent for about 10ft and immediately doubled back and found the off trail path taken...it was all UPHILL ugh, and she wanted to fast jog it... We compromised... Jog 30yrds then walk 30yrds..she selected every path correctly and we found our subject in record time.... On the way back I had coiled the 33'ft line and was walking back my arms swinging back and forth as we descended on the track... Akivah had gone with my subject to help her feel safe and both Areli and Akivah were running around having fun... Areli raced by my right side Akivah to her right and somehow she (and he partly) got her (their) head in the coils, I flew forward 5' or so my sunglasses flew the other direction about 2'... To say it hurt is an understatement as I think I got whiplash... I landed on my right side (good thing too as my left arm is messed up) and pack.. I just lay there and had Areli lassoed standing and looking at me very concerned (probably hurt her too)... My subject and sister had started to laugh after the shock of what happened passed but realized 911 was probably the next step, lol... To her credit she didn't finish the laugh until later when I could laugh... I sure wish I had had it videos because my feet were parallel to the ground.. I FLEW! lol! I picked up quite a few bruises and will now be sure to keep my coils small and bunched....


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Worked Areli again and she was wonderful. Figure I would try Akivah again (he has been being worked on HRD as his maturity for area search wasn't there... I think insecurity) on trail. It is what I started him in the first place.... My subject laid a half mile blind track. I had 2 people following behind me... I scented him and cast him.. He barked and turned circles and it took about 30 seconds for him to focus, but when he did he dropped his nose and found and followed the track... She had crossed the river a couple of times and worked her way back into the woods and Akivah was pretty much dead on.. He was easy to read and stayed focused (even when a bird taunted him and flew close enough for him to chase - one of his favorite things to do).. I noticed he had lost scent and started walking him back about 100ft when he pulled and crossed the river again.. I watched him (I let go of the line as crossing the river in that spot wasn't going to happen for a practice  ) he continued to work and a few moments later I heard the praise from the subject.. We all joined in and he was one proud puppy!! So I'm going to start to include him into the trailing calender as well  YAY AKIVAH!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Have a conference and certification coming up so have been practicing some specifics with a teammate. Did a 20hr aged double blind track (hers was 18hrs old) and our dogs did awesome and found their subjects in great time and with little difficulty. Thankfully the weather has been cooler which I am sure helped keep odor viable despite the fairly heavy contamination. 

Worked the high school today during a football game and my girl was awesome! I however cannot believe I pulled her off of odor 20yrds from the subject!! I had sudden abdominal pain and guess I had a brain infarction too... I am so mad at myself! The wind was blowing into us and she had been dead on the track layers tracks (it was blind but the debrief and gps showed we were isn't on top of her path) until the wind change. She air scented and hesitated a moment, I thought she threw me a negative and for whatever reason my patience was gone and I did the stupidest of things ever! I pulled her from the spot and recast... She was disgusted, lol.. I broke the blind (was still having some intestinal cramping and wanted to finish before something bad happened, sorry if TMI) and found out we were a stones throw away before I became a moron... So I cast her over known scent and let her work her way back up to the spot and to her subject... Normally, she eats her treats and has a look of ultimate pride - the praise is just affirmation of what she knows: she is awesome... This time though, she ate her treats and when I praised her too she lowered her head and wagged her tail sheepishly... Uh oh... I screwed up... She is a medium dog, easy in some things to correct but solid on the line, a jerk on the line on accident doesn't phase her, especially if she knows she is right.. To suddenly duck her head.... 

So after some rest and thought, I went back out and had a small (less than half mile) track laid. Double blind. She was eager to go and so I scented her and cast her and we were off, we weaved through trees and crossed paths and found our subject much to her delight.. She ate up the praise and had her swag back ... I undid her harness and the little punk took off after some deer!! Argh! This was at an airport (rural but busy) and she ran down the runway like she was taking off... Could have killed her... She came back grinning ear to ear... I didn't reprimand this time as I wanted the solid finish.. But next time I will have the ecology on and remind her that her recall has been solid and will remain that way, lol...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

OK.. Haven't posted in a long time so here are some updates... Areli is certified Level 3 ASCT trailing (basically 12hr (ours was 16hrs)aged, 1.5miles,2hr time limit (we did it well under an hour) double blind, water crossings, intersections etc) and Akivah is trailing now and I'm trying to set up the date for his certification.. I will recertify Areli probably in Sept and maybe test for a level 4 and Akivah will test for level 3.

Both dogs are working on cadaver now as well.. Areli has had her first deployment and got direction of travel on an 8hr old urban trail.. Subject was found by police though, so while 'yay' she did her job, we didn't really have much of a hand(paw) in it.. We are on five teams :O and are the only dog teams on three of them.. 

Most recent aha moments was on a 20hr aged double blind trail.. Scent article was left at PLS so I could start when ready. Well, when trail was laid there were no campers.. When I cam the next day the area was populated, and right by the exposed scent article.. Uh oh.. Yup, my girl took the freshest scent and about a mile out she started giving a proximity alert, but we were deep (deep deep) in the forest and my subject was not one to do this, especially when having to go back to be in place for the find.. So I radioed.. Yep, wrong scent.. I was seeing footprints and totally thought we were on! So we recast at the PLS and this time I used the subject name and new direction of travel to start.. She hit the trail and was excellent, found her subject and all was good.. So now, all scent articles are baggied..well,then the next week the baggies scent article was picked up and run off with by an animal, so I had to scent the dogs off of just casting in the area and pray the aged track was the freshest track.. Akivah found that one and I scented my girl off the car seat instead.. Found the scent article 100ft away in the trees, teeth marks in it.. So all scent articles are baggied, marked (so people don't pick them up) and kept with me until I deploy the dog(s), lol... 

Trust your dog... Trust your dog... Trust your dog... Trust your dog is a mantra I have to say often as my subjects seem to be horrible at following simple directions... I swear, I want to do a technical trail for training purposes and ask for a left, right, left, right type urban trail and I guarantee I will get anything but! So I end up pulling my dog off expecting it to be the way I asked, and nope, my doggies are right, I suck! 

Seriously though, I am very proud of them.. We work several miles of trails (usually both dogs one after the other, so I get a freaking awesome workout, lol) a couple of times a week.. Can't wait until summer when we can do it most everyday again.. Hard to stay sharp with only a couple a week (each dog).. 

Our negatives are getting really good.. Both dogs know to come back to me and or, sit if they don't find the specific odor... Gives me confidence when they are on track and things seem hinky.. I've learned their body language and tells much much better and can usually tell if they are mildly crittering while working the scent... Proximity alerts are well recognized and I am super proud of Akivah who has really matured alot.. He is still goofy and the malamute part won't ever allow the German Shepherd in him to fully take over, but that also makes him endearing.. 

Areli is freaking amazing.. She is so dedicated to her job and comes out of the car with her nose glued to the ground... Once I get Akivah certified and Areli recertified, I might be looking for a new pup, lol! Then I can not do all the oops I learned with these two and do what I know I should do with the pup as it grows.. We will see.. Still have to certify in cadaver and maybe area, so plenty, plenty plenty of work left to do.. But trailing is truly my favorite (and the dogs, they get giddy when the harness comes out)


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Just a reminder, this thread is open to ANY track /trailers.. I am hungry for feedback from others.. It is how we learn... So, post away, if there are any others doing tracking (IPO, AKC, fun) mantrailing (SAR, LE, etc)..


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Just popping in to say that I love this thread and am drinking it up. I just started tracking with my boy and we love it. You cast a wonderful narrative that is enjoyable to read


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

We are planning and excited to tracking in the near future. I'm sure then this thread will be very helpful. When I was a little kid I used to have my little brother hide in the woods and have our dog find him - I always had an interest in this.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thank you Chai  Are you tracking for sport (IPO, AKC,..?) or 'just' for fun? It is really addictive I think.. 

Jenny, same question for you  eager to read both of your progress


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

The trainer that I will be training with is the same I'm training with in nose works and obedience she has has titled many dogs in iPo and and will be taught iPo style tracking. It will be introducing us to tracking and we will have an option to go further in either direction in akc tracking or iPo tracking if chosen. I am doing this for fun and knowing I have a dog that can track and learn so much more about it to me is a very good thing to have. I'm not really sure where it else it will lead as of now. Right now we are learning nose works and max loves it. The other day my sister and nephew were coming over. I was in the backyard with max and he lifted his big head up sniffing the air. I knew what he was doing and who must be here. He happily/excitingly ran across the yard to the front gate to greet them and I saw my sister just pulling in our driveway. Nose works and tracking is really what I planned to do even before we got max so I'm very happy he really enjoys it. He has relatives that are cadaver dogs I just find the whole thing so exciting and really respect the dogs and handlers that are out there doing this kind of work for real.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> The trainer that I will be training with is the same I'm training with in nose works and obedience she has has titled many dogs in iPo and and will be taught iPo style tracking. It will be introducing us to tracking and we will have an option to go further in either direction in akc tracking or iPo tracking if chosen. I am doing this for fun and knowing I have a dog that can track and learn so much more about it to me is a very good thing to have. I'm not really sure where it else it will lead as of now. Right now we are learning nose works and max loves it. The other day my sister and nephew were coming over. I was in the backyard with max and he lifted his big head up sniffing the air. I knew what he was doing and who must be here. He happily/excitingly ran across the yard to the front gate to greet them and I saw my sister just pulling in our driveway. Nose works and tracking is really what I planned to do even before we got max so I'm very happy he really enjoys it. He has relatives that are cadaver dogs I just find the whole thing so exciting and really respect the dogs and handlers that are out there doing this kind of work for real.


 so very addicting just happy to have something that we both enjoy together!!!!!!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

That is awesome Jenny! It is so cool when we learn how to read our dogs, especially when distinguishing between a human scent and another.. Watching them work and seeing all the nuances of body language, breathing.. It is beautiful to watch and addictive to participate in.. Not to mention the bonding that comes from such close teamwork.. Very cool! Can't wait to hear your updates as you progress..


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Hineni7 said:


> That is awesome Jenny! It is so cool when we learn how to read our dogs, especially when distinguishing between a human scent and another.. Watching them work and seeing all the nuances of body language, breathing.. It is beautiful to watch and addictive to participate in.. Not to mention the bonding that comes from such close teamwork.. Very cool! Can't wait to hear your updates as you progress..


Yes and it is very much an enjoyable and addicting journey!!!!


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Hineni7 said:


> Thank you Chai  Are you tracking for sport (IPO, AKC,..?) or 'just' for fun? It is really addictive I think..
> 
> Jenny, same question for you  eager to read both of your progress


We have joined a tracking club where you compete for titles, but it follows the SAR style of tracking. We've just started IPO but may not take part in tracking component since my dog already loves he other style of tracking so much.

We mostly do it for fun


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

We have joined a tracking club where you compete for titles, but it follows the SAR style of tracking. We've just started IPO but may not take part in tracking component since my dog already loves he other style of tracking so much. We mostly do it for fun 


So true, once the dog gets a taste of Trailing, which is natural for the dog, there isn't any real easy way to go back to disciplined, methodical, slow tracking.. Usually the handler's feel the same way (No slam meant for IPO tracking, there is an art to IPO tracking)


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Hineni7 said:


> So true, once the dog gets a taste of Trailing, which is natural for the dog, there isn't any real easy way to go back to disciplined, methodical, slow tracking.. Usually the handler's feel the same way (No slam meant for IPO tracking, there is an art to IPO tracking)


Some of my dog's siblings are in SAR and so maybe trailing is in his blood  he just loves it and I love being out there with him. I am hoping to get into IPO seriously in a few years with a WL and so I know I'll get my chance to get into IPO tracking soon. It looks very interesting!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

After trailing you might find it difficult to be so technical with tracking.. I would definitely teach tracking to the IPO dog before trailing, though.. You can teach a tracking dog to trail easily but training a trailing dog to track, IPO style, is next to insane... IPO is mostly FST and not scent discrimination. Dog is scenting ground disturbance and crushed vegetation over human scent... Very methodical and strict adherence to the exact track is expected for good points.. So definitely teach tracking before trailing  

Yes, trailing is for me, like watching a house be built from scratch (in high speed, lol).. You get to see snippets of what the ultimate shape and look of the place will be at certain points.. Sometimes, you are clueless as to when 'the bigger picture' will come and then suddenly, bam! The house is done and the subject is found... Watching the dog work is like poetry, flowing wherever the scent has fallen, wagging tails at moments of intense odor or when they solved a scent pool, head pops as odor tickles their nose and lures them to shortcut the trail - or not, just an elusive snippet of scent that tempts them, but their dedication to the odor and the strength of that odor keeps them on the path.. The picture of what the tracklayer did is laid out with wags, snuffle, head pops, excited sniffs and full body pull in the harness.. Just awesome imho, lol


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Since my subject abandoned me and won't be here this weekend (boo) I worked the dogs on HR. My girl was super focused and got all 3 (stomach blood, teeth and placenta) with excellent indications (often she would tail wag so I knew she was in odor but she wasn't 100% on her passive alert) and clean alerts.. Yay progress.. My boy, who normally is really really good, was off. He found his sources, but seemed unsure and hesitant to alert.. Not sure why, but it isn't his norm so I will see if something is changing or it was just an off day... 

Hoping and praying I can bribe someone to lay some trails for me over the weekend.. One of the worst aspects of SAR is the absolute necessity to train alot and the requirements that takes (other people, new settings, etc).. I personally love it but it is a pita trying to get everything together as often as is needed...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Hmm.. Soo, let me see, in June my girl and I were deployed on a 74hr aged search for a 73yr old hiking the PNWT... Pouring rain, fog, unbelievable rugged terrain, and she worked so beautifully! Had never worked aging that old and the weather, as much as it was wet and cold (44f) was beneficial (and hindrance)... She got DOT and we confirmed direction of travel (DOT) over 30 miles (she trailed about 5miles in separate spots we reached by car) before confirming some boot prints and hiking pole marks were the subjects... She trailed right to the women's restroom... Subject was later 'found' at the containment area predicted by my team alive and well... My girl and our team ROCKED! 

Have learned a few new things NOT to do... One is: don't assume your indestructible phone is waterproof when you fall into a 6' deep creek hidden by tall grass... Because it is not! Expensive lesson.. Life proof case on new phone.. 
Two: be REALLLLY REALLY CAREFUL when you casting your dog after scenting her when you say 'good girl' or 'find' em' especially if dog is sniffing open window of a car, because she just might switch on you and drag your sorry behind up the freaking ski Hill for a half mile before you realize something is not right... Go back to PLS and see her sniff the car and realize she has taken the wrong odor due to my ill timed 'find' em'... That was fun, not! 
Three: hornets can crawl down your shirt and sting the beejippities out of you before you can find a way to get them out of your shirt... OUCH! 
Four: and this is obvious.. TRUST YOUR FREAKING DOG!!!! Man, if I can ever learn to stop 'outhinking' myself and my dog we will be an unstoppable team(s)... 
Five: just because you put your scent article in a baggie (last time I didn't, someone touched the scent article (why? Who knows why someone would pick up someone else sock, but they did) and we went and found them ((eyeroll)) and not our subject) doesn't mean the wildlife won't muck with your scent article! Some coyote took it for a run for about 50yds!
Six: the unfortunates of life is that not all people (including teammates) will be happy that you are being successful.. In fact, they may try to make life a living hot place.. But if you (I) remember why you (I) do this : to save people lives, well then those naysayers aren't so important in the grand scheme of things... 

There are more lessons and a few other cool trails run, but typing on my phone sucks and so, I sign off for now.. Keep on trailing peeps!!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Sounds like a pretty amazing experience. That is pretty far out for catching parts of a trail. Great teamwork. 

I had my cell phone survive being fully immersed in the Catawba River in Rock Hill SC only to be killed by blackwater in the gum swamp in Aiken SC. Yeah. My phone has a seidio obex waterproof case (they did not have life proof for my model).


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Hineni,Just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading this thread though I don't do SAR myself.Living vicariously through you guys I guess
Your above experiences had me both laughing and shivering as I pictured your adventures.Looking forward to more!


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks Nancy.. Yes, it was well out of the range of time I thought she could get odor.. I think the moisture, whilst 'washed' the scent downhill, also kept it alive and 'active' for her... Definitely was proud (and shocked) of her... I was very upfront with the statistics of the aging and success... But prayer, weather and an awesome dog worked well  

I think the sandy grainy water of the creek is what killed my phone too.. Took it a day before it died, but then it died a sad death... I'm tempted to put my phone in a baggie even with the life proof case on, lol! Don't want it happening again! 

How is your ankle doing? Amazing how long it takes to get some body parts back to a 'safe' functioning level..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I have worked with a baggie and the touchscreen still works! My obex screen is very scratched from a couple of years of use-did not work well with a cover over the case but has taken some nasty falls and dunks just fine-if you get a good case, the plastic is not as scratch resistant as the gorilla glass

Ankle is there--did 3 miles off trail the other day just fine and then did boatwork and shoreline the next day. The shoreline was tough as it was steep and rocky and I was watching every step because walking sideways on steep terrain is the worst. It did hurt but the PT said that is ok as long as I don't let it overstretch. It was fine the next day. Compression socks and lacing the boots up tight help a lot.

Yes that direction of travel with the trailing dogs. We had one live find where trailing dog head pops (they were not on the track) were marked on the map, checked the wind and place the air scent dogs. So we tell folks to ALWAYS mark a waypoint for head pops and check wind direction.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Glad the ankle is getting better ... Slow and steady keeps ya moving forward  

Yes, head pops ate important to read on a trailing dog as much as an air scent dog.. Both dogs are needed and have excellent qualities to make a search a success.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

As usual I haven't posted for a long time.. Mostly because I run so many trails each week I would spend more time posting then my fingers want to type, lol.. But, I had two fun trails today I will share.. 

24hr + aged urban trail.. 0°F, 5mph North wind, 53% humidity,1.09mile... Akivah was harnessed and scented at the PLS which I was told was outside the restrooms at the park... He got DOT the moment I cast him and off we went... It was a single blind trail as I had to have my subject move her end spot to a Safeway so she could be inside and not freeze... Akivah moved confidently East up two streets towards the high school.. He gave a proximity alert there and got all jazzed up... What happened was the snow banked around the parking lot and created a large scent pool and held it there.. He worked through it and reaquired DOT and headed south to the hospital.. He checked the portico and loading docks, both of which seem to have buildings that 'breathe' alot due to their fans.. He headed west to the library which would have been the end spot.. He checked the door handle and bounced around revving up to the hot track that now lay before him due to the moved end spot.. He checked the municipal door that my subject had handled to see if it opened and she could hide there (nope, it was locked) and headed for the hwy, turned north parallel to the hwy and jogged up the business streets to the pharmacy where he smiled at me and wanted to dart across the street to Safeway.. Thankfully I know my boy and had his line short... We waited until safe to cross and then up the walkway and into the shopping cart first entrance of the store, behind the carts to his subject.... Very proud of him as he worked beautifully and precisely.. 

24+ hr aged track, urban, 0°F,5mph North wind, 53%humidity 1.07mile..Areli was harnessed and scented... A block from the PLS (my bad, I thought the crematorium was the church, oops)... So really had to cast her to find the trail, she did and off we went.. I was watching my girl big time due to the allergic reactions she was just getting over.. But when she knew I was going out with Akivah she got so excited (and was not swollen, hives, or any other symptoms) I could see trying her.. She worked the side of the church to the parking lot where she encountered what Akivah had~a scent pool.. She worked through that quickly and headed west towards the bank.. She stopped and looked at me and I wonder if the benadryl hangover made my normally studious and focused girl to lose her concentration.. I asked 'where is she?' and she seemed to suddenly remember she was working a trail, she headed down an alley, turned north a block then west again to the hwy, turned north once more and jogged up to a block from where the hot trail to Akivah's trail began (same subject)... She head popped, revved up and we were off to the library (east).. She detailed the door and the entrance and all around the area before doubling back to the west.. I wondered if she was following Akivah trail (always a concern if you run over a known dogs path) but she opted to take a circuitous route around a church, over the river via bridge and back to the business section... She jogged up to the pharmacy where she cast herself in the parking lot and since no cars were coming straight across the hwy and into Safeway (somebody almost ran her over with the shopping cart ~talking on their phone and we were in obvious view~they apologized and Areli ignored them, lol) where she found her subject and got her praise and goodies... 

Winter urban trails always teach me something new... Like chasing the stupid snow plows as they move my subjects scent to a snow heap... Or snow blowers casting odor all over the place... To frozen odor and the dogs being super clean on a trail 24hr old when usually the winds blow the odor (as well as traffic and the river wind) all over... Good day, dogs are content and I am proud of them.. Got back to the car and my girl was lifting hind feet.. Probably due to the salts so they got rubbed clean...


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

As always, anyone is welcome to respond or post their own trailing /tracking stories, observations, thoughts etc


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Hineni7

How long did you do tracking before you started trailing? I'm assuming AKC TD type tracking?
I've been training with a SAR trailing group for a few months and am still tracking. My sponsor wants to transition to trailing soon, but I'm not satisfied with my pup's tracking.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I have always trailed... I don't compete at all and my goals are to save people's lives, so my focus has always been on helping the dog work real situations and learn scent pools, air currents etc by running the trail... Since my two certified dogs were started at 10mos on trailing I haven't had the need to 'slow down' and track.. That being said, my next puppy I will probably start with more specific tracking mixed with trailing to help the learning process and preserve the growing body.. 

If you are doing SAR, I am confused on how you are restricting your dog to tracks vs trail (strongest source of odor)? Are you having someone flank who knows the track and only allow the dog so much for margin of error? I am of the personal opinion that allowing the dog to discover how to follow scent is imperative to improvement.. But I am always curious about how others train and am always learning and adapting .. How old is your dog?


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

I am very fortunate to be training with an excellent CARDA trailing group. Most of the teams in the group started with TD type tracking. That was suggested to me by the 'go to' handler in the group. I don't know how well it's going. It seems to be mostly visual to my pup even though we're using scent articles. I've slowed her down by asking her to down at the articles but when the visual isn't readily clear she gets off track. Yes, the track layer follows. She works a track away from and before or after everyone else works trails. She's 16-17 months old and slowly maturing/calming.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

It is wonderful you have a great group to work with.. I started with CARDA when I lived in CA in early 90's... Having not seen your dog and how she works I can't really advise anything, however, I do know that some dogs get bored with the slow tedious tracking.. Don't get me wrong, tracking builds precision and is important.. However, it is very demanding of focus and slow... It is possible that your dog is actually bored and needs the freedom to follow the scent where it flows... See, tracking, and I am not knocking its validity, is very human oriented.. We know where the footfall is and thus assume that is where the scent is, or should be... Reality often differs from this humanistic view point of what scent should /does do... So a dog who is being slowed to be methodical may actually have fast forwarded (their noses are soo much more powerful and capable then we can often imagine) the problem and know where her subject is and thus is bored... Just a thought... 

She may also appreciate a fire trail where the subject runs away from her a decent a distance as she is experienced in the game, and is allowed the excitement of 'chasing' her subject.. Yes, it is visual at first, but once a few turns are thrown in it is all nose.. In this style of trailing, don't worry about a blown turn, by that I mean if she overshoot s a turn she will double back to it... She is just moving faster and she has to 'catch' back up to the scent.. I've found this happens often in the beginning but quickly the dog learns the pace I which they can smell the turns and they rate their speed for this... These are just thoughts and suggestions, I know you have some very capable and experienced people guiding you and that is awesome ... With this style of teaching, and running trails almost every day, my girl certified on 12hr aged,double blind 1.5mile,water crossing etc in 6mos...she was just under a year and half old.. She just recertified in urban, same criteria available, and is 2.5yrs...my gsd/malamute did as well...


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

You sound experienced. I'm not :smile2: first gsd pup and first attempt at any of this. Didn't plan for it. She is definately a working dog and I've always found locating missing ppl rewarding so hopefully we'll be mission ready in 1.5-2 years. 
My question was how long did you train strictly tracking before transitioning to trailing.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

I did not train tracking at all... I trained with the method commonly known as tracking through drive (ttd) but is actually a trailing method utilizing the dogs natural forward drive and motivation to pursue prey.... In a strict sense I understand tracking and agree with the idea of it building precision in the dog... That being said and without any disrespect towards tracking and it's purpose, I don't believe it is the best method for search and rescue... It seems to trap the dog in the humans belief of where odor is, and not where the dog is actually finding it... The dog gets restricted to and slowed down more than needed and someti5that affects the drive of the dog... If you know math and are stuck doing simple arithmetic it gets boring and you might begin hating math... Or get simple answers wrong to entertain yourself or beaise you weren't focusing... TTD engages the dogs natural drive and abilities and allows the dog to discover how to find odor, wherever it may lay.. So trailing is my forte


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Well I guess every trail is a learning process... Sometimes it means checking internally and making sure that you are operating as your partners best partner... I kinda screwed that up on this trail... 

So the set up is this: 48hr aged track.. It is semi known in that I know of the big freaking hill (read mtn) that my subjects climbed and their general end point.. But it is a 2.59 mile track, I begin it in - 4°F and it in 4°F..there is about 9-12" of fresh snow that have muted any footprints to depressions that could be deer, etc... So I am relying on my girl... Oh, and I have snow boots on that are 2 sizes to big.. Warm as all get out but they feel like bowling balls on my feet and I am clumsy with them on.. But I don't miss the opportunity to run trails, especially when my subjects have given my distance and age.. It is in a wilderness setting.. 

OK, so my girl is scented and gets DOT without any problems, she seems confident and while she initially gave me the 'hot (cold) foot routine, I knew she would warm up as she worked the trail and she did... (she got a wonderful foot massage afterwards, one of her favorite things) she found a spot where the river brought fish blasts of subjects odor and considered taking the sir scent.. Because I wanted to know how she would run older aged trails in the condition we were in, I asked her to cast herself and require the trail vs the air scent (note, my boy had done just this when the trail was 24hrs old and I let him as it was a blind trail at the time, we'll, this one was too, but I knew up to this point).. She fund the turn that went over a barbed wire fence and she was back on task.. Up the freaking huge and long man we went... And her is where things start to go south.. For me... She wants to follow the odor, which I encourage normally, except when it is Billy grating along the edge of this freaking steep hill.. She is in odor obviously, and when she runs out, she doubles back to what I assume is the footfall (later confirmed by gps, which at the end, she was extremely close to except when I pulled her off because I am human and thus 'know better' NOT).. But I have gone from chilly to hot Hot hot.. I am in pretty darn good shape, but the bowling balls on my feet, new snow, and ascension is taxing my strength, let alone the side tracks where scent has pooled... So I am becoming less patient (so embarrassed) and yelling at her (shame)... What am I saying? Uh, well, stuff like, "if you want to go sherpa the mountains go ahead, I will wait here.. Tell me if you find anything because I KNOW they wouldn't do that (of course they did later on)".. This is said in a less than kind voice...my girl, well Shepherds have a great ability at perception and she knew I was hot and this blowing off some steam.. Literally.. She ignored me like a good girl and continued her job... Once we made up the stupid men, she gets DOT again and continues at her typical jog (ugh)... Once again we come to a summit but all evidence of any type of trail system is gone, and of course she wants to go down hill, then back up (which they did)... Me? I am mad at myself for being mad at her... I know she is doing her job and I believe she is doing it well, she shows all signs of being in odor and on task.. But I have been trippingon every buried branch, twig, and gopher hole with my sideshow bob size boots and I am less then zealous to yoyo up and down the mtnside... So my attitude is less than supportive... I am so embarrassed.. My girl deserves SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more than that... 

Anyhow, we sherpa the side of the man for what seems like forever.. Me slipping, sliding, tripping, and turning the air a little blue with my bad attitude (sorry Lord)... I have my moments of absolute control and restabilize my attitude.. And then trip, bash a shin, and there it goes over the hillside.. My girl takes it Liora trooper, occasionally looking at me like I have horns growing out my head (probably did) and then shrugs it off and continues... So in my infinite wisdom, I feel she has lost the track (she hadn't) because no normal person would do what I am doing let alone my subjects (they had like 2" snow when track was laid).. So I generously tell my girl she has 5 minutes and then we are heading down... Well she keeps going sideways, up and down, me just sideways and occasionally uncontrollably down... I work 10 minutes and then start heading down.. Oh, and to add insult to injury, the line is snagging constantly... Making me have to go up and down the min more than I cared to... Finalized take the line off and she works well ahead of me.. Anyhow, we head down, me positive we have overshot the trail by a mile.... My girl wants to keep going sideways.. I'm in a sour mood... And then, to the good Lord remains me I am an idiot and she trust my dog... We cross the trail.. Footsteps that have to be human (because no other animal would be so stupid as to be doing what we were doing) coming from the direction my girl wants to go, and heading the way I think they should go ultimately... My girl trots up to me and the look was 'told you so' I pet her, tell her good girl hook her up again and we continue.. Me shagrined and berating myself for being such a jerk, my girl happily following the odor of her subjects... 

We ended up doing a mile over, mostly due to my doubling back to untangle her and her scent pools, then doubling back.. When looking at the GPS she is almost dead on the whole time, until I drop her down and we run into the track again... Thankfully my dogs are used to me talking during the trail, so even my embarrassing attitude didn't phase her... She was rewarded well and I have been extremely careful to watch my attitude (and got a pair of boots that fit)... Each trail is a time to learn.. Sometimes frustration is possible... I never thought I would get so mad over something so stupid... So unfair and not cool... I learned a lot about myself and what I need to work on as a human and a handler... My boy probably would have continued working, but he is more sensitive and might have shut down due to my stupidity... Also, I learned I need to trust my dog more... Even when I 'think' I know best, I don't.... I was deep in the wilderness and had no clue they would have done what they did... Lots for me to continue to mull over and learn from... And change.. 
.


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

So no hiders today so we worked on HRD... My girl is awesome.. She has learned the game thoroughly and loves it.. She gives her passive trained response, although if you know what to look for her normal body language tells the story, and she holds her sit well... My boy used to be phenomenal but went through some immature air head moments and totally changed his trained alert on his own (used to be a sit, then nothing) now it is a refind alert and a down and nose on source... He is back to thoroughly enjoying it and knowing his job, although I have to occasionally remind him to finish the refind alert... Since he changed it of his own accord I don't want to change it yet again... 

Anyhow, we have a couple feet of snow on the ground and watching them bound through it, ranging and then trying to sit in it (my girl had such funny looks as the snow froze her bumper and went places no lady wants it to go)... They both did great and then ramped and played in the white oasis... Now they rest warming up and content.. Good.. Maybe they will leave me alone for a bit, lol... They love the games so much that if they don't do it for a day or so they hound me everywhere in anticipation... If I get a text or alert on my phone, watch out, they know it has to be a mission, haha.. Love it... Sort of ;0)


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

A fun day for the dogs today.. Took them on a walk in the forest, which I often do.. They romp and play and wrestle but when they venture far off, I hide... When I first started doing this I could see the concern and they only used their eyes looking everywhere.. Of course this was when they first were learning to use their noses this was common, but as they got better they learned how to think and follow the scent trail and pools... Now it is a fun game they enjoy (although my girl 'cheats' often and doubles back early)... They have gotten so good in this and I've seen it has helped in their trailing... Tired pups and fun.. Awesome


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Did a fun trail(s) at Wal-Mart today.. About 12F and the parking lot was icy! I hid for my sister and she worked Akivah.. She is learning a lot and this was a hot trail... The wind was blowing about 14mph from SW and scared across the lot.. She was good handling him but missed some obvious tells and went around the pharmacy before reading him better... Once she got on track she read him well and he found me.. It was about a 1/2mile trail... 

Areli started her track like the hotrod she is... I managed to keep her at a slow jog for me praying I didn't die on the ice.. Her trail was what my sister laid finding me and then she disappeared and we had to find her... Most of it was blind as I couldn't see what she had done except for the trail I laid.. Seems my girl was right on top and had the good backtrack solved quickly.. Avoiding shopping cards, people and cars while skating on ice is no fun, but it was a cool track.. Once we got close to my end spot my girl head popped and I knew she was in fresh odor (the other was about an hour aged).. She ripped through the rest of the trail ~about 3/4mile total in blinding speed.. Fun trails


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