# Puppy Food and Pricing



## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Hi,

After having my puppy reject Blue Buffalo by diarrhea, many of you recommended I switch to feeding Fromm Heartland Gold LBP. This prompted me to do a price comparison list of attractive dog food brands as reviewed by dogfoodadvisor.com

I found Fromm Heartland Gold to be a little on the expensive side and was wondering if you guys have had good experiences with other cheaper brands that has also been rated 4 stars by that website... (Better than Purina, anyway!) I will list the brands I am considering, please give me your thoughts and opinions!

- Chicken Soup for the Soul LBP
- Eukanuba LBP
- Fromm Gold LBP
- Hill's Science Diet LBP
- Nutro Max LBP
- Premium Edge LBP
- Pro Pac Ultimates LBP
- Simply Nourish LBP

(Slightly more expensive than those listed above, but still cheaper than Fromm HG)

- Horizon Complete LBP (4.5 Stars)
- Wellness Complete LBP (4.5 Stars)
- NutriSource LBP
- Nutro Ultra LBP
- Taste of the Wild Puppy Formula (Both flavors seem to have the same price per lbs)

That said, if Fromm Heartland Gold LBP is the ONLY way to go, then I will buy it...


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

I feed my dogs Sport Dog Food. I choose it because they have grain free varieties that don't have potatoes or peas which a lot of other grain free foods seem to contain. They also have a grain free puppy variety you can take a look at:

https://www.sportdogfood.com/elite-grain-free-active-dog-puppy-30-18/


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Feathers said:


> Hi,
> 
> After having my puppy reject Blue Buffalo by diarrhea, many of you recommended I switch to feeding Fromm Heartland Gold LBP. This prompted me to do a price comparison list of attractive dog food brands as reviewed by dogfoodadvisor.com
> 
> ...


 How fast are you going thru the bag of food? Unless it's really cost prohibitive I'd stick with whats working for you. It's a good food and your pup tolerates it well so I wouldn't be in a rush to switch it up, unless like I said it's really cost prohibitive.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Bramble, thanks for the link. I will look at it tomorrow morning on my computer. 



thegooseman90 said:


> How fast are you going thru the bag of food? Unless it's really cost prohibitive I'd stick with whats working for you. It's a good food and your pup tolerates it well so I wouldn't be in a rush to switch it up, unless like I said it's really cost prohibitive.


Not very quickly atm because she is still below 4 months old. I am only feeding her about 3+ cups of food a day. Neither of the food we currently have for her is working for me. The Blue Buffalo will be returned to petco soon because it has been giving her diarrhea non stop. The Purina is not just bad quality, it is making her have horse sized poop and she is starving ALL the time because it is not keeping her full... 

Heck, I have a feeling she's not even full after finishing a whole bowl of food as she continues to beg for more when her bowl is empty. Not forgetting how she scarfs down the purina as if she hadn't seen food since being separated from her mother's milk... I'm also suspecting the purina is making her grow a bit too fast... Not sure if that's just normal puppy growth spurts or the food, but she is just sprouting like a weed atm. 

I have no idea what made you think purina is good food or that my puppy is tolerating it well...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Fromm LBPG worked very well for us. Great company. Good food. If you do price comparisons, however, you do have to take into account calories because a food with less calories per cup may actually be more expensive to feed than a more expensive food with more calories per cup.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Sorry I thought the Fromm heartland was working for you. I use the Fromm gold lbp and haven't had any issues. I switched my pup to that from verus lbp, which is what the breeder was using. I feed him the kibble twice a day with a raw feeding in between. 

For me, the Fromm is under $60 shipped for a 33 pound bag and I think the heartland was about the same price but for a 26 lb bag. You're probably going to have to just experiment with different foods til you find something that works but switching from the purina to a higher quality kibble can't hurt. 

As for the growth spurts, they do grow really fast and I doubt it's the purina making her grow too fast. Good luck finding a food that's good for you and your pup


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## BigHemi45 (May 10, 2016)

My guy does amazing with Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy, Large Breed Puppy Food, Chicken, Rice Formula, NutriSource. We can find it for around $42. It is the only food he has ever eaten, but his coat is nice and shiny and we have had zero digestive issues.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

NancyJ, how does calories per cup affect the food/puppy?

thegooseman90, ah no, I have not yet switched her. Was actually planning to just get the Fromm HGLBP last weekend, but I fell sick and I don't trust my hubby to buy it because he doesn't look at pricing or understand the need for a better food than those sold at Krogers x.x And from what I found out, it is about $50 for the Gold and $58 for the Heartland. So... quite a bit more expensive than the Gold heh.

Thanks, BigHemi45.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

I know you asked Nancy J but I can answer that. Say your pup needs 1000 calories per day. Cheap food gives it 200 calories per cup, more expensive food gives it 350 calories per cup. In this example your pup would need 5 cups of the cheap food and just under 3 cups of the expensive brand. So over time you'd go thru the bag of cheap food quicker. The difference would honestly be negligible tho because you could buy 150 lbs of old Roy for the price of 30 lbs of Fromm. 

I'd vote to try the Fromm. I really like their ingredients and my pup does well on it. You could even just get the 12 lbs or whatever to try it out. Save a little money and less waste if your pup doesn't tolerate it. Even the 12 lbs would last a little bit at 3 cups a day.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Can't figure out how to edit on mobile, but I forgot to mention the above is just an example. I have no idea how many calories your pup needs or how many calories he'd get from a cup of cheapo depot kibble.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Gooseman is right. I can look at the two choices you mentioned though. Fromm helps us with giving calories by weight too!

Fromm Heartland puppy gold is 26lbs/bag and 1815kcal/lb = 47,190 Calories/bag
Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold is 33lbs/bag and 1731kcal/lb = 57,123 Calories/bag

So in this case, since the LBPG is less expensive per Calorie it actually WOULD be a better buy. It is not always the case, but Fromm compensated by giving you a bigger bag with the LBPG. It comes down to whether or not it is important to you to feed grain free puppy food. It never was to me and many dogs have done very well on the LBPG. 

You would just take the cost of each bag and divide by number of calories/bag to get the cost per calorie but you don't need to here because it is clear just from looking at the numbers.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Interesting. I have no idea how many calories she needs either LOL! Honestly, I'm not sure why exactly grain-free is so important. I do know that corn being the main ingredient is just downright bad, but then, dogfoodadvisor.com wouldn't rate a non-grain-free food as a 4 star if a 100% grain-free diet was the only diet dogs require.

So being naive, no, it's not important to me, though I wouldn't mind knowing why grain-free was a big deal.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You can get into a big long discussion on grain free but some claim you are more likely to have allergies with grains and ignore the fact that the major allergens are actually the meat proteins. ....... If you are going to feed a kibble you are going to wind up with some form of carbohydrate as it is necessary for the manufacturing process be it grains, or potatoes, or beans/peas. Pick your poison . If you have the time and money a raw or a natural cooked diet could be the most nutritious but many dogs have good long lives on kibble. Dogs evolved over time to live with humans and our grain eating ways but they still do not have the kind of enzymes we do to properly process carbs.

Dogs do not need carbohydrates in their diet. Manufacturing does. 

While corn is the hallmark of cheap food I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with corn other than the fact field corn is highly treated with various insecticides and herbicides during growth...........I think grain free is "such a big deal" because someone figured they could make a lot of money that way and because most grain based dog foods used to have more grain in them than meat. 

Dog food advisor is some dentist who came up with a rating scale based on his opinions. JMO. There is good info there but look for good quality ingredients. The lower the calcium/phosphorus/ash relative to protein numbers usually indicates a higher quality protein source. Then look at how your dog does on it.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I would second the recommendation for Sport Dog Food. I feed mosly raw, but have used it for training and tracking, also for supplemental feeding when my bitch is in heat. I think the price is pretty great considering the ingredients. Other than that, I've heard good things about Victor, though have never tried that with any of my dogs (was going to, but then found Sport Dog Food). I like Fromm as a company, and their safety record is great. But I think you are paying a lot of money for fillers with that food. That said, if it works for your dog, great!


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## Ken Clean-Air System (Feb 27, 2012)

For what it's worth, I actually prefer the ingredient composition of the regular Fromm LBP Gold to the Heartland Gold. Unless your dog has problems with grains, grain-free doesn't necessarily mean better. Notice that the grain ingredients in a good quality food will differ from a lesser quality non-grain-free food. No corn or wheat in Fromm's regular Gold LBP formula.

When feeding a good quality food like Fromm, remember that if your dog doesn't have allergies to grains, then grain-free isn't really necessary. You'll get more food for your money that way as well, which is always nice


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I currently feed and am happy with Victor hi pro (which is only a 30/20 food) but would rather have less calcium and phophorus and ash for a puppy to have to process.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Well, seeing as how my puppy is not having allergic reactions to Purina, I'd say she's not allergic to grain lol. Infact, the Blue Buffalo was grain-FREE! xD 

We just bought the Fromm Gold LBP and just gave her lunch. Thankfully, she's not fussy about food and gobbled everything up. The kibble size is sooooo cute too LOL! We shall know tonight if she has diarrhea again... Hopefully not...

I'm wondering though, am I reading the feeding recommendations right? At 3-4 months old, I feed her 6+ cups a day? And that's assuming she will be a 60lbs dog full grown? What if she'll be 70-80lbs? 10 cups? 

So feeding her just 3 cups a day is UNDER-feeding? I'm so confused! D:


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

Puppies aren't born with allergies, they develop over time. 

Feeding guidelines are just that guidelines. They give you someplace to start at. If she is a good weight on 3 cups a day don't worry. I adjusted how much I feed my puppy based on how they look and feel. Getting a bit ribby feed a little more. Try to avoid her getting pudgy as the extra weight means added stress on growing joints, lean is best for large breed dogs.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

She is actually very ribby right now. She puts on a pot belly after meals, but once she poops, her stomach shrinks in until she looks emancipated and just ugly. I'm hoping it's only because she's not actually absorbing much from the purina and because of her growth spurts, but looking at the feeding recommendations, maybe I was indeed under-feeding immensely!


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

What is her weight now? On my bag guidelines are based on puppies current weight and he's at just under 3 cups for his 15-20 pounds. 6 cups sounds way high. 

How often are you feeding her? I split mine up 3x a day but usually his afternoon feeding is a raw feeding. His weight in my opinion is ideal. Could be the purina still working it's way thru but I'd cut back from 6 cups a day to Fromm recommended feeding of about 3 cups per day - depending on her current weight - and give that a week or two. Adjust up or down according to what you're seeing with her weight.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

She was 25 lbs at last vet visit, which was a few weeks ago. We're guessing she is around 25 to 30 right now. We'll weigh her again tomorrow. I was told that the feeding recommendations on dog food bags are usually based on the dog's guesstimated final weight as an adult. So I was shocked to see 6 cups for 60 lbs and no recommendation for 75lbs. If it's current weight, then that makes so much more sense! 

I was feeding her a cup 3 times a day but switched to a cup and a half twice a day because of how voraciously she started attacking the food. I'm gonna go back to 3 times a day though, now that I'm giving her Fromm. I'm hoping that once she finds out she no longer constantly feels hungry that she'll slow down... My golden did lol... 

Ok, so it is 3 cups a day, phew! I thought for a moment I made a mistake buying Fromm because I'm not sure her bowl can fit 3 cups at once let alone 6 lol!


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Hopefully this image attaches. It said something about resizing but I'm on my phone and idk how to. In case it doesn't, at 3-4 months and 30 pounds you'd feed 3.5 cups per day. As a starting point of course. I'd stick with that at least 2 weeks and then start adjusting up and down until you get her where you want her to be


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Okay, thank you! Yesterday's and this morning's poops were all quite nicely shaped, no mess in the cage and so far no water coming out of where it shouldn't! We shall see today! If she's good today too, then Fromm was a success!


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## Juanita M (Mar 30, 2017)

Feathers said:


> Hi,
> 
> After having my puppy reject Blue Buffalo by diarrhea, many of you recommended I switch to feeding Fromm Heartland Gold LBP. This prompted me to do a price comparison list of attractive dog food brands as reviewed by dogfoodadvisor.com
> 
> ...


I fee my male GS puppy Taste of the wild puppy formula. He loves it!!! It's helped him stop having issues with diarrhea and out on some much needed weight, after getting parvo? He will only eat this food!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Feathers said:


> Interesting. I have no idea how many calories she needs either LOL! Honestly, I'm not sure why exactly grain-free is so important.


You really don't need to know how many calories she needs, but comparing the kcals per cup of various brands is helpful when switching between brands with varying calories. And also, as Nancy pointed out, to see that one food delivers more nutrition than another, offsetting the higher price. The more calorie dense, the less you feed and the less waste produced, so if you're only comparing price per pound that's not the complete picture. 

If I want to switch my dogs to a different food, I multiply the number of cups they eat per day by the kcals of that food. Then, I divide that daily calorie total by the number of kcals of the new food. For example, 2 cups a day of a 350 calorie food = 700 calories a day. If the new food is 450 kcals per cup, I divide 700 x 450 and get 1.56. So, just over 1-1/2 cups of the new food is equivalent to 2 cups of the old food. And I'll adjust from there, based on the condition of the dog. I do a rib check frequently and either feed a bit more or a bit less if they feel a little thick or are too skinny. 

I switched to grain free foods after the problem about 10 years ago with dogs dying from food tainted with melamine. The problem ingredients were wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate, so I decided that going grain free to completely avoid any grain products would be safest. I already wasn't going to feed a corn based food because they're typically low quality and full of other questionable ingredients. That being said, I don't think grains are evil and many dogs do quite well on foods that include grain. If your dog does fine with grains and you stick with quality brands with good ingredients it shouldn't be an issue.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Juanita M, I've had dogs who previously did well on TotW too! That's why I considered them! Good to know your puppy is doing great on it!

Cassidy's Mom, ooooh, thanks for the example! I was always taught to calculate based on weight alone, I suppose because my parents never really cared about calorie counts haha. This makes sense though. As for grain-free, I'll stick to normal for now just because she isn't doing badly on non-grain-free. That may change as she grows older, never know.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I've seen people get all caught up in complicated equations to figure out how many calories a day their dog needs and I just don't think that's necessary. The dog's condition is going to tell me that anyway. But knowing calorie counts of various foods is very useful in determining how much to feed, which may or may not correspond to the feeding guide on the bag. That's an okay starting point, but it's going to vary from dog to dog, so I always feed to condition rather than some arbitrary number of cups.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I feed Canidae ALS and have been happy. My dogs are high energy but seem to do well on the basic formula. 

I normally pay about $54 for 44 lbs, but with a recent sale bought 20 bags for just $46 a 44 lb bag, stocked up.

So far, I've been happy withe the company and the product and they offer a terrific frequent buyer program.

If I could, I'd buy a higher pro-fat food, but at the moment, this is by far the best quality food I can buy at this price.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Cassidy's Mom, I've seen people get caught up in complicated equations for their OWN calorie counts! LOL! I honestly don't care about numbers either... except when it comes to pricing... Must be the asian in me, but I know how expensive random buying can be when stacked up. So far, still no diarrhea from my puppy and her tummy no longer shrinks into her ribs after poops! That's the first thing I noticed after feeding her 5 meals with Fromm! I no longer have to worry about neighbours calling authorities because she looked starved! I am already a very happy mum!

Muskeg, I heard Canidae wasn't a very good brand and like the Blue Buffalo, kept giving puppies diarrhea...

Btw, what would be the appropriate waistline when viewed from above? Does anyone have pictures or something? Her last ribs still stick out a little, though she seems full enough after a meal of 1 cup. I know ribs should be able to be felt, but how should it be seen?


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Nope, no diarrhea here. In fact, my husky mix had diarrhea on every other food we tried until Canidae. 

Been happy with it. But each dog is different. For me the price and quality is right.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Feathers said:


> Btw, what would be the appropriate waistline when viewed from above? Does anyone have pictures or something? Her last ribs still stick out a little, though she seems full enough after a meal of 1 cup. I know ribs should be able to be felt, but how should it be seen?


 I tried uploading a pic but it's telling me it needs to be resized. I'll try to get another one later but the little rascal is so hyper that it's hard to get a good top down pic. But basically, in my opinion, that last rib should poke out just a little and then his waistline should have a slight taper towards his hips. Nothing too exaggerated, just a nice taper. For pups I think it's better to be a little on the chubby side than to be thin. As an adult I'd shy more towards the lean/thin side rather than being overweight.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Yeah, my puppy is too wiggly and bouncy to get a pic for you guys to tell me if that's good or feed more too. She came to us literally a skeleton, tbh. And she's never been chubby since we got her. I feared overfeeding due to accelerated growth and bone problems, so she constantly stayed skinny. Not forgetting how she's just been getting bigger and bigger...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am glad the Fromm is working out.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Me too! The prolonged diarrhea was stressing me out! 

I managed to get a couple pics of her waist while she was eating, I feel like that's too much rib, what do you guys think?


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

She's a little thin IMO BUT I wouldn't go feeding her too much in an attempt to fatten her up quickly. Remember you just switched her to a quality kibble so give it time. If she's not putting on a little weight in a week or two then bump up her feeding a little. Finally got a pic of mine that will attach. You'll notice his taper towards the hips isn't as exaggerated. IMO, this is ideal. This is how I want my pups to look. Maybe even a little chubbier than this too for pups


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## Lexi GSD (Jan 22, 2017)

Feathers said:


> Well, seeing as how my puppy is not having allergic reactions to Purina, I'd say she's not allergic to grain lol. Infact, the Blue Buffalo was grain-FREE! xD
> 
> We just bought the Fromm Gold LBP and just gave her lunch. Thankfully, she's not fussy about food and gobbled everything up. The kibble size is sooooo cute too LOL! We shall know tonight if she has diarrhea again... Hopefully not...
> 
> ...


Definitely not read the back of the bag and go by those guidelines. Make sure you know her weight and feed by month/weight


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Thanks, thegooseman90! I will wait till we are feeding her 100% Fromm for a couple weeks. Hopefully, she won't be so ribby by then! Hubby actually suggested we do a few days of food in her bowl 24/7 just to force her to feel satisfied and not inhale her bowl like a vacuum cleaner as she is acting like she is starved for weeks. I feel like that's more of a quick fix and not a good idea, though... 

Lexi, yes, I know that now. I DID read the back of the bag. I got confused due to other brands listing their recommendations as "estimated weight of full grown adult", which probably means about 75-90 lbs. Imo, if a dog food was made FOR puppies, they should list their recommendations based on puppy's current weight! **** idjits. Fromm is obviously very considerate!


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Definitely don't do that lol she'll just overeat and/or become a picky eater. Inhaling her food is good. You want them to eat quickly rather than eat a bite or two and wonder around. What you could do to give her a little extra food is do some training a couple times a day and use her kibble or training treats as rewards. Thats some extra calories and it's good to work on some basic obedience anyway.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

It's not good if she chokes on them! She didn't use to eat this fast or wander around either. She just ate at a steady pace until she finished. That was when we fed her Purina Smartblend One or something like that. Second bag of Purina was Puppy Chow because hubby went grocery shopping without me and Smartblend was out of stock. The moment we started feeding her Puppy Chow was when she started inhaling and then choking. Since then, I've been soaking her food in water so it went down easier, but she still chomps, and now she's showing signs of food aggression -_- I've seen this behaviour before, in my golden. It took him MONTHS before he slowed down because he realised he was getting fed anyway and it made him super full. That's what I'm hoping Fromm would do to her. I only worry about the choking and food aggression...

We kinda stopped training with treats since her diarrhea started, tbh. And she's been a pain in the ass behaviour-wise lately. Why would people say puppies are easier to train when all they do is disobey lol! Now that I know the Fromm is doing well though, I will start her training again.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

You could try some high value rewards for her to help with the food aggression. Maybe a chunk or two of chicken, or something better than kibble. Show her that good things come from you instead of her thinking she has to protect her food from you. 

I've personally never seen a dog choke and die on kibble so maybe I'm just more laid back about the eating speeds. Mine varies but he always finishes in a reasonable time. But I only give him 15 mins. Sometimes he'll come check in with me to see if I have something better then go back to chomping. Definitely easier to teach a pup new things than it is to break an adult dog of bad habits. I'd say get back to the training asap. Maybe even use the kibble to reward for a short session then give her the rest. That'll show her that you are where her food comes from and you can control the pace she eats. I do 3-4 pieces of kibble each time I reward instead of just one. Fromm is very small bits so not much incentive to work for one piece


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

Oh, that's a good idea! Yeah, I'll try that! Thanks!


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

You can easily slow down any dog with a no-spill stainless steel bowl that's been flipped upside down -- you put the food in the outer ring, and they have to dig it out:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DOP5L4...bowl+large&pd_rd_r=7QBT8NMD839E3D7K7HF0&psc=1


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Actually Fromm was one of the foods I would soak for at least 30 minutes before feeding because it does swell up (at least the Fromm LBPG did) ; I forgot about that but then I realized I always soak my dog food because I would rather any swelling occur in the bowl and not their stomachs. FWIW, been doing it for years. No tartar issues.

I started soaking to keep the dogs from choking on the food because of wolfing it down.


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## Feathers (May 30, 2017)

I don't soak that long, just enough to soften them. Good to know my idea of soaking to prevent choking is not new and has been done for years with no problems! Only thing is, like a human baby, I have to wipe up her snout because she gets so messy from it lol. 

Magwart, we have tried blocking her from having easy access to the food with our fists and tennis balls... Honestly, I think that was what caused her to start showing signs of food aggression... The blockage made her even more frantic to get the food. Now, everytime we touch her while she's eating, she'll pause for a couple seconds, breathe hard, (she growled and snarled at me before) then start scooping as much food into her mouth as she possibly can *just in case* the food gets taken away. It's weird, we've never taken her food away without letting her finish eating before. I've now been letting her inhale this way while constantly rubbing her head until she finished. She is SO afraid of not getting to eat


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