# Police Dogs "Bite Anything"



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

Quite some time ago, I had a conversation with a DDR breeder I was considering. They are not a kennel that works their dogs (they purchase breeding stock already titled or send them out to be titled). I asked this breeder if any of her pups go to work in the police force and they said,

"oh NO. None of them! Those people want a dog who will bite ANYTHING and I won't breed for that!"

Thoughts on this statement?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

"Thoughts on this statement":

:rolleyes2::spittingcoffee::rofl:


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

What Tracy said.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I agree it is crazy. I had no response to it. But why on earth would a breeder even say this?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

"Why would a breeder even say this?":

Because they're STUPID!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is a big issue with many breeders who don't work their own dogs: they do NOT understand temperament and drives.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

and I assume their dogs won't bite anything.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Samba said:


> and I assume their dogs won't bite anything.


Probably the type that wouldn't bite a helper if he had a steak tied to his arm.


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

BlackGSD said:


> "Why would a breeder even say this?":
> 
> Because they're STUPID!


 
HAHAHA!!!! I dont think there's any better way to say it!


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is like a "breeder" website I saw. They were saying that they maintain the working drives of the dogs they breed by evaluating their tug play. 

No, they won't do Schutzhund or any bite-training because they have a young child, and teaching their dogs to bit is to much of a risk - but they can tell everyting they need to know about their dogs by playing tug with them. 

In other words - they just admited that their dogs are are too unstable for bite work.

How very reassuring!


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Bahahahahahahaah!!!!!! Omg!!!!!! Hahahahahaha!!!!!


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

_Some_ of them do "bite anything". 

I've heard the stories where the police dog bit the bystander instead of chasing the perp.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

True, but often dogs like that don't last long on the street.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

LOL!! You guys are good


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The people who have the strongest opinions about working dogs like police, are usually the ones that don't work dogs or somebody told them something.....gives a whole new meaning to opinions are_____ ______, !


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

*Cough*

Ummm....


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> The people who have the strongest opinions about working dogs like police, are usually the ones that don't work dogs or somebody told them something.....gives a whole new meaning to opinions are_____ ______, !


This. One training group I used to hang with gave the impression that they thought Schutzhund people spend all their time discussing which brand of rubber hose was best for beating your dog.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Hunther's Dad said:


> This. One training group I used to hang with gave the impression that they thought Schutzhund people spend all their time discussing which brand of rubber hose was best for beating your dog.


Well, how ELSE are ya gonna get that high level of Obedience? 

Personally, I recommend the heavy duty rubber hoses - they stay flexible even in very cold weather. :smirk:


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

How about a coat hanger??? lighter and easier on the arms....lol


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## mygermanshepherdkiba (Nov 20, 2010)

............................................. :-S...............hmmmm


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> Well, how ELSE are ya gonna get that high level of Obedience?
> 
> Personally, I recommend the heavy duty rubber hoses - they stay flexible even in very cold weather. :smirk:


It really was a shame about their attitude, because they showed me how to modify Hunther's behavior from "exploding" at another dog at 50 feet, to being able to report in and out of the obedience phase with no reaction. Some days that was the _only_ thing he did well.


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## lcht2 (Jan 8, 2008)

Castlemaid said:


> This is a big issue with many breeders who don't work their own dogs: they do NOT understand temperament and drives.


 
couldnt agree more. i get so tired of the nieve thoughts of people on working dogs. it just drives me NUTS!


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## EJQ (May 13, 2003)

Castlemaid said:


> Well, how ELSE are ya gonna get that high level of Obedience?
> 
> Personally, I recommend the heavy duty rubber hoses - they stay flexible even in very cold weather. :smirk:


I say get a copy of the Wall Street Journal, roll it up very tightly, then take the nummies that don't know squat about Schutzhund or Police dogs and beat the crap out of them with the newspaper!!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I don't begrudge a person for not being knowledgable about working dogs and the temperaments and drives necessary to be effective. But when they venture opinions like its gospel with no idea of what they are talking from firsthand experience.....then how can you respect their assertions on other things.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Well, I feel compelled to chime in on this discussion. I guess my thoughts are as follows.

My brother is a sheriff, and he and I know numerous K-9 officers in different departments, and they all take their dogs home with them everyday.

If these police dogs will bite and attack anything, then how do these police officers have families around their dogs....and heck, how does the homeowners insurance cover such viscious, viscious dogs? And the neighbors, they all must be down at city hall trying to change the ordinances on allowing these vicious dogs in their neighborhoods.

I guess I've never once heard of a police dog biting anyone outside of the line of duty, and the people I know say that the aggressive behavior starts the minute the uniform goes on and they go out the door to work. Once home, the dogs change their demeanor to the change in circumstance.

That's my thoughts, for what that's worth


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## DanielleOttoMom (May 11, 2010)

Sounds like the person is just not well educated on the breed (which she is breeding????) and training of the GSD. If you ask me I would skip that breeder....


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

cassadee7 said:


> Quite some time ago, I had a conversation with a DDR breeder I was considering. They are not a kennel that works their dogs (they purchase breeding stock already titled or send them out to be titled). I asked this breeder if any of her pups go to work in the police force and they said,
> 
> "oh NO. None of them! Those people want a dog who will bite ANYTHING and I won't breed for that!"
> 
> Thoughts on this statement?


 Do you leave the puppy with it's mother for a few weeks so it learns from the mother or to be feed by the mother or to be feed the information it needs. Who becomes the parent after that can make or break.


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## Ace952 (Aug 5, 2010)

ST33L3R said:


> I guess I've never once heard of a police dog biting anyone outside of the line of duty, and the people I know say that the aggressive behavior starts the minute the uniform goes on and they go out the door to work. Once home, the dogs change their demeanor to the change in circumstance.


Police dogs do bite people outside of the line of duty. I think it would be crazy tto not think it doesn't happen. I think a GOOGLE search can help you find plenty of stories.

I don't condone what the breeder says but to say K0's dont bite on accident is totally false. Here is a prime example.

Auburn reviewing security process after K9 bit football player<img src="/policeone/data/images/videoicon_new.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle" hspace="5">


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

Ace952 said:


> Police dogs do bite people outside of the line of duty. I think it would be crazy tto not think it doesn't happen. I think a GOOGLE search can help you find plenty of stories.
> 
> I don't condone what the breeder says but to say K0's dont bite on accident is totally false. Here is a prime example.


I agree that it happens. I know of a police officer that got bit by a K9 because he go in between the dog and the bad guy the dog had just taken down. Dog lunged, tragging his handler with him, and got the cop on the forearm instead of the criminal. 
But I don't think it happens often, and definately not often enough to warrent a comment like "police dogs wil bite anything". Those dogs do thier jobs the right way every day, take down alot of bad guys. The vast majority are very well-trained and reliable. Mistakes do happen. But that kind of attitude is just ignorant.


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## Jessiewessie99 (Mar 6, 2009)

My friend has K9 officers that live near her and they both have trained police dogs that live with them at home. I guess you just have to be careful. But the lady who told you this obviously doesn't know very much.


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Oh those police dogs are very dangerous. They will bite your flipping face off!

Graphic Warning


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## vdsauk (Jan 3, 2009)

SSDD...

Goldren Retrievers Bite Too  

I did get a good laugh. Sadly most K9 bites are by mistake or irresponsibility of the handler.

The dogs I've placed had to be so social because they'd be handled by lots of people.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

I agree with the "rolled up newspaper" and whacking them with it!!!....THEN...take them by the back of their heads and push their noses in the poop......*NO WAIT..?!:thinking:*
_That's not right.....that comment goes to another STUPID statement and training advice!!_


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

DanielleOttoMom said:


> Sounds like the person is just not well educated on the breed (which she is breeding????) and training of the GSD. If you ask me I would skip that breeder....


 I think it is not fair to label someone we don't even know anything about just based on a fragment of a conversation taken out of context. Imagine for a second that just before that sentence in question the poor breeder and the OP were discussing the differences between the Czech lines. DDRs and malinois, and that the breeder tried to explain that DDRs do not have as much prey drive and sharpness as PD K9 units may normally want. The breeder had a private conversation, maybe did not choose the correct way to deliver the message but hey, he or she also had no idea that their private conversation will be taken apart and examined on an online board. If they knew that everything they say would be used against them then I am sure they would prepare a proper speech 

I like those who walk the walk and not only talk the talk. If the breeder from the original post can offer sound dogs then yeah, I would get a puppy from that kennel. 

I'm that bad! :wild:

:lurking:


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## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

Ace952 said:


> Police dogs do bite people outside of the line of duty. I think it would be crazy tto not think it doesn't happen. I think a GOOGLE search can help you find plenty of stories.
> 
> I don't condone what the breeder says but to say K0's dont bite on accident is totally false. Here is a prime example.
> 
> ...


This is so clearly the handlers fault, not the dogs. To have a dog in such a highly charged atmosphere and then have people charging right at it, then seeing it reacting and not controlling it. Welcome to poorly trained police handlers.


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## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

Samba said:


> Oh those police dogs are very dangerous. They will bite your flipping face off!
> 
> Graphic Warning
> 
> YouTube - Dog Bites Man In The Face!



This is a dog far out of its depth. You can see from the beginning of the clip that the dog is afraid of whatever is going on. All it took was for the reporter? to loom a little bit to push this dog into a fear based bite. Frankly this dog had better not be on any police team, it lacks the nerve. I'd like to hear the rest of the story.

If someone bold confronted this dog I doubt it would bit them at all.


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## Wildtim (Dec 13, 2001)

I'm not defending the breeder in the Op's post. Their statement was idiotic.

But, a police dog should bit anyone, anyone it is told to. 

Of course even this won't prevent police dogs from biting someone other than the criminal in question. Think about what often happens. A criminal runs away from police, officers immediately follow, the K-9 officer reaches to loose their dog. The K-9 is then sent with an attack command. It now has several officers and one bad guy all running away from it to choose from as possible targets. This is why police officers get bit. Add in a whole bunch of civilians fleeing as well and now the dog has to guess who to bite, the one bad guy, any of several cops, or one of a dozen civilians all running around.

The handler has to be the smarter of the pair but often under stress this doesn't seem to be the case. Most often it would be best for the k-9 team to wait and not loose, it's not like the guy is getting away, the tracking dog is right there and has a fresh track to work on if the guy isn't run down.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

GSD07 said:


> The breeder had a private conversation, maybe did not choose the correct way to deliver the message but hey, he or she also had no idea that their private conversation will be taken apart and examined on an online board. If they knew that everything they say would be used against them then I am sure they would prepare a proper speech


This is true, and I did not post this comment to put down the breeder (nor have I disclosed to anyone what breeder it was) because I think this breeder does have a lot of good points. I just found it a very curious thing to say and, since asking the breeder for clarification did not get me any answers, thought I may gain some insight into this statement here, from people who know more about "police dogs" than I do. For the record the conversation was about where dogs from this breeder end up: working homes, pet homes, police force, etc. but not about lines or temperament.


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, the insight was that the breeder was an uneducated stupid idiot who's clueless about his or her own worthless dogs... It's not about your question, Shawn, it's about the readily served 'insight', just makes me sad. Temperament and lines are always connected with the types of home the pups go to. DDR dogs will not normally go to SchH people or K9 handlers here. 

I enjoyed the little sidetrack about the police dogs, though


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

yeah, I've been enjoying this too....it's interesting to hear the views considering we all have GSD's and obviously love them. I honestly didn't expect to hear any negative posts about it, that surprised me.

As far as accidental attacks by police dogs, I agree totally that more often than not, they can be avoided. Perhaps the people I know in the business are better trained to handle their dogs, which may be why I don't hear about these accidents...who knows.

With regards to the face video, I agree with WildTim that this particular dog has no business doing police work. There's no confidence there at all, nor does that handler have a clue how to manage that dog. I would think any dominant person would be able to intimidate that dog as well.

But in the football video, idk if that dog had any aggression...at least not that I saw anyway. If he wanted to get him, I think he would have gotten him. I'm not a pro with this, but can anyone offer some insight as to what they feel happened there? Was that truly an aggressive bite?


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Some of my best friends are police dogs. There are good ones and there are not so good ones. There are good handlers and there are poor handlers. I have found this situation in many a profession also.

The dog in the football video was a Malinois, correct? I have heard they will bite anything!


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## Klamari (Aug 6, 2010)

ST33L3R said:


> With regards to the face video, I agree with WildTim that this particular dog has no business doing police work. There's no confidence there at all, nor does that handler have a clue how to manage that dog. I would think any dominant person would be able to intimidate that dog as well.
> 
> But in the football video, idk if that dog had any aggression...at least not that I saw anyway. If he wanted to get him, I think he would have gotten him. I'm not a pro with this, but can anyone offer some insight as to what they feel happened there? Was that truly an aggressive bite?


Ok this is just me, very novice in recognizing what drive a dog is in when it bites but here's by two cents.

That bite to the face by the GSD looked very defensive to me. Not the good defensive (that trainers sometimes want in SchH), but a very reactive, "youre scaring me!" and then bite. And then the reaction afterwards just solidified that. The dog was scared, cowering, and intimidated.

The Mal at the football game was different. He was trying to get at the player as soon as he got close. Almost straining to get at him, like you see dogs do at the end of a leash when theyre doing protection work. In the very beginning of the video you can see him lunge once, and then lunge twice and nip the player. Seemed more excited to me. And then as the player was walking away, you can see the Mal in the background wagging his tail and barking. 

I agree with Tim on both dogs. I think the GSD had some nerve problems AND a bad handler. The Mal definately had a bad handler with him being so close to the field and players waving their hands around and running by and everyone so excited. 

Just my opinion


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## Tim Connell (Nov 19, 2010)

This is the stuff that would make Capt. von Stephanitz roll over in his grave, wondering what has happened to his breed...I wish we could roll back the clock. Gee, sometimes when justified, police dogs are actually SUPPOSED to bite. What a concept!

Stable dogs with good handlers certainly fare better than others...and like stated by an earlier post...all professions have good and bad..but let's not blame what may be good dogs for bad handling...hey, at least they bite,  unlike some of the dogs and training that are out there.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

was the bite at the game aggressive though? That seemed like play to me....that didn't appear anything like the newscast video. I'm asking because if I were to see that instance from my dog, I can't say that I'd recognize that as aggressive behavior...and I'm not sure what the response should be for an incident like that.


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I don't know if this has been addressed yet, and if it has forgive me for repeating it. I think maybe what the breeder was talking about is the idea that a police dog will bite a person regardless of the presence of a bite sleeve or other body protection. "They'll bite anything, even a person not making an overt threat, waving a stick and advancing in a bite suit/sleeve".

I sometimes run into the training officer for a local police department. I have heard him say more than once that most schutzhund trained dogs are often dependent on the bite sleeve or bite suit and won't go in for a bite unless the person is wearing one. Protection work in schutzhund is fairly stylized, so maybe he has a point? 

A police dog is trained to respond regardless, and will go after whoever they are directed at by the handler. The person could be in a bite suit, or they could be naked as a jaybird. The dog will still take the bite. Or should.

Maybe the breeder's comment was just an offshoot of this somewhat back and forth commentary between the "hobby" protection work in schutzhund and the "working" protection seen in police dogs?
Sheilah


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

sit said:


> I don't know if this has been addressed yet, and if it has forgive me for repeating it. I think maybe what the breeder was talking about is the idea that a police dog will bite a person regardless of the presence of a bite sleeve or other body protection. "They'll bite anything, even a person not making an overt threat, waving a stick and advancing in a bite suit/sleeve".
> 
> I sometimes run into the training officer for a local police department. I have heard him say more than once that most schutzhund trained dogs are often dependent on the bite sleeve or bite suit and won't go in for a bite unless the person is wearing one. Protection work in schutzhund is fairly stylized, so maybe he has a point?
> 
> ...


Very interesting and this could be a valid explanation!


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

Wonder why the breeder would not be interested in breeding for a dog who would do real police type work?


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

Samba said:


> Wonder why the breeder would not be interested in breeding for a dog who would do real police type work?


Good question. I can't answer for the breeder who made the comment, but I have always thought that these types of attitudes most often come down to a lack of basic understanding. Even within the dog community there are misconceptions.
Sheilah


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## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I am good with discussing the comment as a hypothetical situation and not about a specific breeder. It would not be that unusual to hear.
It does seem there is a lot of misunderstanding or lack of knowledge in the world of dogs and breeding regarding working temperament.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

ST33L3R said:


> Well, I feel compelled to chime in on this discussion. I guess my thoughts are as follows.
> 
> My brother is a sheriff, and he and I know numerous K-9 officers in different departments, and they all take their dogs home with them everyday.
> 
> ...


A few years ago, a local policeman decided to give a demonstration to a local grade school with his K9 partner. While showing them how they work and attack the sleeve, the dog kept going and actually killed his handler ... in front of the kids. A very sad, but true, story.


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## novarobin (Oct 4, 2007)

PaddyD said:


> A few years ago, a local policeman decided to give a demonstration to a local grade school with his K9 partner. While showing them how they work and attack the sleeve, the dog kept going and actually killed his handler ... in front of the kids. A very sad, but true, story.


I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on this. Do you have a link or more info? I would be interested in this. The trainer at our department prefers not to do bitework in situations like this because they prefer not to show the "scary" side of the dog. He does do obedience and drug detection and such. He may be interested in this incident. 

I just wanted to point out that Police officers are still humans and Police dogs are still dogs. 
Like in anything else, you have good ones and bad ones, in both dogs and handlers. 
Yes, there are Police dogs out there that should never be on the street. 
And yes, there are handlers that shouldn't be handling a dog. 

But these are not representative as a whole. 
The statement made was ignorant. 

Our toughest K9 here lives with two young children and plays very gently with a Golden retriever puppy. He can also take a 230lb man off his feet. 

Our recently retired K9 who had many successful street bites was famous in the schools. 


I didn't watch the videos, but I have seen the face bite before. Again, not what you want to see in a good Police dog, and the handler should have seen what was going on.


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## ST33L3R (Nov 17, 2010)

Can anyone offer any insight on the game video though? Was that an aggressive bite?


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> A few years ago, a local policeman decided to give a demonstration to a local grade school with his K9 partner. While showing them how they work and attack the sleeve, the dog kept going and actually killed his handler ... in front of the kids. A very sad, but true, story.


News article link?


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