# Public Schools



## FlashSD (Oct 11, 2015)

Flash is my medical response service dog for my PTSD. Today, I went down to my son's school to discuss a situation with one of his classes. While waiting in the office, I was approached by someone who asked me to remove my dog from the premises and then told me that he can't be here. He is vested, laying in a relax at my feet. I took the time to explain that he is a service dog and was then told he was okay, but only after the assistant went off to check the rules with others. 

Sometimes, I wish that training would be more common with people.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

I am sorry you had that experience. I actually work inside our school system with student with disabilities. We have a student that has seizures and when she transferred to our system she brought her service dog with her. We had a lot of employees and parents complain at first but after a while of him being there everyone became comfortable and realized he was the most well mannered and attentive dog I have probably ever seen. It still amazes me how this child(a 12 yr. old) has such a bond with this dog. The only issue we have now is other people wanting to play and pet her dog, which she has learned to calmly explain that he is a service dog and it would not be in HER best interest if they did so.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

mjackson0902 said:


> I am sorry you had that experience. I actually work inside our school system with student with disabilities. We have a student that has seizures and when she transferred to our system she brought her service dog with her. We had a lot of employees and parents complain at first but after a while of him being there everyone became comfortable and realized he was the most well mannered and attentive dog I have probably ever seen. It still amazes me how this child(a 12 yr. old) has such a bond with this dog. The only issue we have now is other people wanting to play and pet her dog, which she has learned to calmly explain that he is a service dog and it would not be in HER best interest if they did so.


My neighbor has a daughter, "Jane", in 3rd grade. Jane is severely allergic to dogs. A child in Jane's class has a service dog. My neighbor did not complain but it is a problem for Jane. I really don't know what the answer is in a situation like that. The child needs his service dog but Jane has health problems as well. I guess I am wondering what people on this board would think about that situation.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

Rangers_mom said:


> My neighbor has a daughter, "Jane", in 3rd grade. Jane is severely allergic to dogs. A child in Jane's class has a service dog. My neighbor did not complain but it is a problem for Jane. I really don't know what the answer is in a situation like that. The child needs his service dog but Jane has health problems as well. I guess I am wondering what people on this board would think about that situation.


I don't know, that is a hard one. Could they place the two children in different classrooms?


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

FlashSD said:


> Flash is my medical response service dog for my PTSD. Today, I went down to my son's school to discuss a situation with one of his classes. While waiting in the office, I was approached by someone who asked me to remove my dog from the premises and then told me that he can't be here. He is vested, laying in a relax at my feet. I took the time to explain that he is a service dog and was then told he was okay, but only after the assistant went off to check the rules with others.
> 
> Sometimes, I wish that training would be more common with people.


That is frustrating, but at least they let you keep your service dog with you after they assessed the situation. I am sure that the deal with a lot of PIA parents all the time and are continually on alert. i am not trying to excuse their behavior just explain it.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

newlie said:


> I don't know, that is a hard one. Could they place the two children in different classrooms?


The problem is that the school never told the parents that there was a service dog in the classroom. I guess my neighbor only found out after school had been in session for a few weeks. At that point her daughter would have had to move out of a classroom she had settled into. So my neighbor is just trying to keep her daughter away from the dog. Sometimes I wonder if this Principal has any common sense. I am grateful that my kids are no longer in this school.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

Per Georgia State Law for our systems, we cannot deny a child or their service dog. That is setting the school system up for a lawsuit. The solution for that should be that the children are in separate classrooms. So it is not considered discriminative both parents/guardians should be present for a meeting to determine who is more comfortable leaving the classroom. The school itself cannot decide Jane Doe has to leave because of her allergies or Ally Mae should leave because of her service dog causing the reaction. The goal is for the parents of the two children to come together and decide what they are comfortable with. If that fails then the administrator will hold a tribunal with the superintendent and other board members to decide what appropriate placement is based upon each child's academic skill level and whether or not the said children have 504 or IEP plans. In which case those documents are legally binding. Sorry for the summary


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

Rangers_mom said:


> The problem is that the school never told the parents that there was a service dog in the classroom. I guess my neighbor only found out after school had been in session for a few weeks. At that point her daughter would have had to move out of a classroom she had settled into. So my neighbor is just trying to keep her daughter away from the dog. Sometimes I wonder if this Principal has any common sense. I am grateful that my kids are no longer in this school.


BTW...look up the united states department of education. If the parents of the child with allergies to the dog reported this to the school at the beginning of the school year and it is part of her permanent record (there is a space for allergies listed in the forms the parents fill out every year.) The parents of the child with allergies might actually have grounds for a lawsuit or official complaint. Children with allergies or medical conditions are automactically flagged in our system. The school should have been alerted by the system when the other child with a service dog entered the classroom.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

mjackson0902 said:


> Per Georgia State Law for our systems, we cannot deny a child or their service dog. That is setting the school system up for a lawsuit. The solution for that should be that the children are in separate classrooms. So it is not considered discriminative both parents/guardians should be present for a meeting to determine who is more comfortable leaving the classroom. The school itself cannot decide Jane Doe has to leave because of her allergies or Ally Mae should leave because of her service dog causing the reaction. The goal is for the parents of the two children to come together and decide what they are comfortable with. If that fails then the administrator will hold a tribunal with the superintendent and other board members to decide what appropriate placement is based upon each child's academic skill level and whether or not the said children have 504 or IEP plans. In which case those documents are legally binding. Sorry for the summary


Thanks. I get what your saying and I am familiar with the laws. Our Ranger was bred in the Seeing Eye facility and we were raising him as a Seeing Eye dog (before the stinker flunked out of the program.) i am more frustrated by the school for not telling everyone what was going on beforehand. Then the whole problem could have been avoided. My neighbor does not want to make a big deal about it and is just hoping that keeping Jane away from the dog will work out.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

FlashSD said:


> Flash is my medical response service dog for my PTSD. Today, I went down to my son's school to discuss a situation with one of his classes. While waiting in the office, I was approached by someone who asked me to remove my dog from the premises and then told me that he can't be here. He is vested, laying in a relax at my feet. I took the time to explain that he is a service dog and was then told he was okay, but only after the assistant went off to check the rules with others.
> 
> Sometimes, I wish that training would be more common with people.


Doesn't sound like a problem. You were able to educate them and they understood, which is nice I think.
The problem lies with people who pretend to have a service dog, only to bring their pets with them and the fact that service dog status is not regulated.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Rangers_mom said:


> Thanks. I get what your saying and I am familiar with the laws. Our Ranger was bred in the Seeing Eye facility and we were raising him as a Seeing Eye dog (before the stinker flunked out of the program.) i am more frustrated by the school for not telling everyone what was going on beforehand. Then the whole problem could have been avoided. My neighbor does not want to make a big deal about it and is just hoping that keeping Jane away from the dog will work out.


Has Jane had an allergic reaction to the dog?


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

At least today you gave someone the opportunity to learn more about service dogs. They probably have not been in this situation before.

As for the situation with "Jane" that Rangers Mom wrote about I feel the girl with the allergy should have priority. While in a school setting, there are other resources a child could use other than a service dog (aids, medically trained staff, teachers, special equip, etc)


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## MythicMut (May 22, 2015)

This was a good thread as it gave me an opportunity for thought. Although many people around here own dogs (98% on my block alone) they are basically pet dogs. So many kids constantly run up to, or bicycle up do dogs, to pet them, even with their parents around. I am hoping to start a program in our elementary school once my dog matures a little, where I can take my dog in (he is child friendly) and demonstrate to children, using my dog, how to meet and greet a dog and about why you can't disturb service dogs or dogs in training. I hope that kids will also pass that info on to their parents as so many adults also do not know the basics. We are learning some tricks to that end too. I think it will help them remember better.

I never really thought about the allergy part before. Maybe it could done where kids sign up for the Dog meet and greet seminar? That way kids, and teachers, that are allergic could take a pass on it?


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

Findlay said:


> Has Jane had an allergic reaction to the dog?


Not that I am aware of, but I haven't spoken to my neighbors in a few weeks. I think the mom was optimistic that it would work out she was just perturbed that she was not informed ahead of time. It would have been easier for everyone if students with dog allergies were not placed in that class to begin with. The whole incident just made me realize how complicated it is to meet everyones needs. I know I always felt awful when I brought Ranger to a store and someone there was afraid of dogs. I had a job to socialize Ranger but I empathized with those who were terrified of a GSD. I vividly remember the fear in one woman's face as I past her at Walmart. To make me feel worse she actually apologized to me. She saw the vest and felt bad that she was afraid.


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## mjackson0902 (Sep 14, 2015)

Your neighbor has every right to be upset. Ultimately, she has to do what is in the best interest for her child. I do hope that they are able to co exist in the classroom.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Many people have allergies of various degrees. If the second child had an allergy to dog dander that was of the level to be considered a disability than the principal, school staff and teacher legally would have had to be notified. 

If the child's allergy was considered a disability than her disability would be treated at the same level as the other other child's disability. There would have been plans put into action before allowing the dog into the same classroom as the child with the allergy. 

But for all of this to happen, the little girl's parents would have had to advise the school of the situation and her medical records would have to reflect this.
A verbal statement from a parent that a child is allergic probably will be noted as such on the child's health record, but unless there is some type of documentation that it is at a disability level then it will not be looked at as such. A child with an allergy to dog dander or saliva at a disability level would have some type of medical treatment at hand to be given by a designated person at the school. The two would be placed into separate classrooms and all seating arrangements would keep them apart from trips into the library, the cafeteria and riding school buses.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Just a couple of suggestions to try. In the classroom, the dog in the far back corner of the classroom (furthest from the door, less air circulation), the allergic child in the first desk by the front door. (more air circulation).

Immediately after class. *Teacher *wet wipes down desk and floor areas where the dog was (to get rid of the "dander" microscopic dead skin cells which get airborn and will spread thru time, THIS is what causes the allergies). It's micro fine stuff and gets into every crack and cervice if not cleaned from a hard surface right away. 

Open group areas with carpet - sorry, dog not allowed. 

I had severe allergies to cats when I was a child. I could enter a house that hadn't had a cat for 8 months and the reaction would take me out for the next 10 hours. 

Please understand, that even today - most of the allergy medications carry side effects that, used long term are not good for adult or child.


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## ODINsFREKI (Jul 30, 2013)

The child with allergies has priority over the service dog and would be kept separate from the student. Zones should be established as well in certain areas for allergy free similar to the peanut thing. Sorry you were discriminated against by an uneducated staff member. Your dog was in control and marked. No excuse for that kind of ignorance in a government facility. 

I deal with fake service dogs, unknowing guests on a dog free campus and occasionally a service dog that is not suited for the environment. If your dog is out of control, I dont care what service it performs, you're all out. Maybe a warning for some. The only thing I can ask a visitor is if their dog is service dog and what function it performs. I can legally deny emotional support dogs but wouldn't want to. 

The jerks who fake and abuse the system really do damage to the people who need working dogs. It's terribly gray law and a touchy and risky subject that sets you up for all sorts of liabilities. 

You can tell a service dog in 30 seconds or less. You can spot a fake as soon as they produce pet ID or some form of laminated facade. Real operators know the law and know the answers to the few questions we can ask.

I love dogs, respect and admire working dogs and their handlers, but have had it with the fakes abusing the system. I wish they could be fined thousands for fraudulent actions.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

ILGHAUS said:


> Many people have allergies of various degrees. If the second child had an allergy to dog dander that was of the level to be considered a disability than the principal, school staff and teacher legally would have had to be notified.
> 
> If the child's allergy was considered a disability than her disability would be treated at the same level as the other other child's disability. There would have been plans put into action before allowing the dog into the same classroom as the child with the allergy.
> 
> ...


I am covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act for chemical sensitivities. In WA state I have legal standing under a 504 plan. I am a teacher and letters are sent home before school starts in August. If the child in question had significant allergies with appropriate documentation, it is taken very seriously. I have seen situations where students had pencils with no erasers and took off their shoes and stored them in the hallway for someone with significant allergies to rubber/latex.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Still speaking for the U.S. only:

No, the child with allergies does not have priority over the service dog. There are pages of legal documentation / regulatory law / case law that deal with these issues. There are procedures that all sides must follow.

No, you can not tell a fake SD in a short span of time. A SD can slip in their training just as any other dog can do if not kept on track by the handler. You can have a legal SD with poor overall training to begin with or a SD that was trained to a high standard and then allowed to slide. This is why some organizations re-certify their client's dogs every year or two. 

Certification does not mean a fake SD. Yes, some certification comes via the Internet, but there are some organizations that certify "inhouse". The Dept. of Justice does not say that certification is not allowed -- per the DOJ certification is not required for making use of services offered by Public Entities (ADA, Title II) or for Public Access (ADA,Title III). The DOJ does give a heads up against the worthless certification purchased via the Internet.

If someone wishes to advise others on the laws then they need to make sure that they read the laws in depth and also understand the intent of the law. They must also be open to read seemingly contrary law and know in what circumstances each law is in effect. Reading and understanding law is not an easy thing to do. Laws are not always cut and dry. If they were there would be no need to verify with various agencies, there would be no need to have legal representation for each side, there would be no need to appear before a judge and then sometimes try to appeal previous court rulings at a higher level court.


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