# Searching for a German shepherd



## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

I decided to get a German shepherd in 2015. My parents agreed, so that I become less anxious. I am considering rescue, also considering to get a puppy from breeder first. Here are a list of breeders: 

Five Peaks GSD
Rocky Mountain
OttoGSD
Vom HausReid
True Haus (although have a long list)
Reds Above The Rest 
German Shepherd breeder Kansas City - Vertrauen German Shepherds
Waldhimmel

List more if any new ones come to mind. 

Rescues: 
Coastal GSD
Bay Area GS rescue (volunteer with them)
Orange County GS rescue
Northern CA Rescue


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## Skywalkers Mom (Oct 26, 2012)

Rescue for the kindest of heart and need for soul. Breeder if you plan to breed or show, of course get paperwork.
My guy I adopted. He is "predominately GSD" he has a little something else in his lines, curled tail and ears have small curl down at tips. Though I think they add character.And I call his tail curl "my handle" he turns and wants to play if I grab it and say "theres' my handle". He is a patterened sable and adorable.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

Skywalkers Mom said:


> *Rescue for the kindest of heart and need for soul. Breeder if you plan to breed or show, of course get paperwork.*
> My guy I adopted. He is "predominately GSD" he has a little something else in his lines, curled tail and ears have small curl down at tips. Though I think they add character.And I call his tail curl "my handle" he turns and wants to play if I grab it and say "theres' my handle". He is a patterened sable and adorable.


 I do not agree with this. Just because one doesn't plan to breed or show, doesn't mean they can't go the breeder route. I have both a rescue and a puppy from a breeder. Several things you can get from a GOOD breeder are :

1. history of parents
2. health guarentee
3. Breeder support
4. sound temperament from seeing the parents. 

I have also had three GSD's from a shelter. Two we adopted, one fostered. They are all great dogs, but my male we have now came with baggage. The OP is young, so even if choosing to go the rescue route, just be sure to really temperament test the dog. My boy we adopted went through a grace period of being an angel and then the little bad habits started. I'm not saying not to adopt, but to think thoroughly before you decide on whether to adopt or go the breeder route. There are pro's and con's to both.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

d4lilbitz said:


> I do not agree with this. Just because one doesn't plan to breed or show, doesn't mean they can't go the breeder route. I have both a rescue and a puppy from a breeder. Several things you can get from a GOOD breeder are :
> 
> 1. history of parents
> 2. health guarentee
> ...


Guess there are pros and cons to everything. Decisions aren't easy to make either.


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## LoveSea (Aug 21, 2011)

I agree about some rescue GSD's & questionable temperments. My dog in my avatar I adopted through a rescue group, but he was an owner referral & he came with his papers from his breeder. He was 8 when we adopted him & the owner clearly loved him, but unable to keep him because he had 2 small kids (who Rocky loved & was very gentle with). One of the kids had serious special needs & it was too much for them having a large dog as well. The thing I liked about the owner referral was that he was able to let us in on the dog's temperment, personality, etc. Rocky was only with us for 2 short years, but turned out to be the best dog ever, the one we could never top if we tried. Solid temperment, loved all kids. Oh & Rocky had a tail that curled up at the end - it was like a letter "j" or a question mark shape! When we grabbed it, he would do a fast playful turnaround, it was so cute.

Then, 2 years ago we adopted Henry through the same rescue group. He came with an amputated tail (first red flag). He came from a kill shelter & apparently was either locked in a basement & left outside & was turned in in filthy neglected condition. Of course that made me feel like I just NEED to rescue him & save him. Boy, was he the most tiring, challenging dog! I worked very hard with him & in the past year he turned out to be so worth it, BUT, he was a fear biter. Not with anyone in my family, just did not feel comfortable around kids, especially small kids. So I had to keep him with me all the time when my kids (who are teens) friends were over. He was also an anxious tail chaser & would circle & chase his stub of a tail. He sadly passed a few weeks ago of kidney disease. I would rescue again, but only if I knew the dogs history & temperment, especially since I have a busy household with kids & friends coming in & out.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

How's the puppy you got awhile ago? I think an aussie mix?


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## LoveSea (Aug 21, 2011)

Jakoda, not sure if you were referring to me or OP but I have an Aussie mix. We adopted her as an adult dog 2 & 1/2 years ago. She was buddies with my GSD that passed. So sad for her, she misses him.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I was asking the OP, but Lovesea I'm sorry about your gsd and sorry your aussie is lonely((

And actually it wasn't lobo, it was someone else, I confused him with...


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I was asking the OP, but Lovesea I'm sorry about your gsd and sorry your aussie is lonely((
> 
> And actually it wasn't lobo, it was someone else, I confused him with...


I don't know what you are talking about. Might get a German shepherd between West Coast and Vom HausReid. Tell me info on them please.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I was asking the OP, but Lovesea I'm sorry about your gsd and sorry your aussie is lonely((
> 
> And actually it wasn't lobo, it was someone else, I confused him with...


I think West Coast doesn't require to give puppy. Back, according to guarantee.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Since this will happen in the future,my suggestion is, to go meet with the breeders your interested in , go meet their dogs, NOW, get an idea of what they are about and they can get an idea of what "you" are about as well..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

..and as has been mentioned many times before....figure out what type of GSD you want.....and what you are going to do with it...and knowing that not all GSDs are equally as easy to live with. 

Since you have said that you want to do search and rescue (is that still happening? have you met with the team?) then I would just find out where folks on the team get THEIR dogs and follow their lead . I can guarantee you that folks on my team are getting the best working dogs THAT way! 

But wait until you are very involved in the team before you do. Just because a dog is a GSD does not mean it is suitable for that type of work.............

If that was a passing fancy, well, then the comments in the first paragraph still apply.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

West coast is show lines and Haus Reid has show and working. What type are you looking for?


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Liesje said:


> West coast is show lines and Haus Reid has show and working. What type are you looking for?


European lines or west lines or German lines. Just a family companion maybe make him a service dog, go for tons if hikes across America and BC.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Since this will happen in the future,my suggestion is, to go meet with the breeders your interested in , go meet their dogs, NOW, get an idea of what they are about and they can get an idea of what "you" are about as well..


Be nice to go meet the breeders in person, but isn't that out of my way? It's expensive to go to CO or another state. I'm in SF, CA by the way. Then drive to OR, then to Southern CA. Then make my final decision go get the dog from one of those places meaning flying all the way back an driving all the way back.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Isn't a 12 year investment worth going "out of your way". Of course you can probably see dogs from these breeders at venues near you (shows, competitions) and meet the breeder that way and ask for references.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

True Haus is not too far away for you to visit. 3 hour drive tops.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

I would try and attend some dog events and see who you meet. You still have your labradoodle, right? You could try signing up for Rally Novice or something easy. You meet lots of people that way and GSDs are prominent in obedience. Also see if anyone in your local training club or SAR group has GSDs and talk with them. With the breeders I am currently looking at, I have had the opportunity to see some of their dogs at work. This has been very very useful. 

I don't have any experience with the breeders you have mentioned.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with Nancy, since you are really rather undecided on 'what' you want, it pays to go meet whatever breeder your interested in..If you don't want to travel, look up breeders in your area and go meet them, meet their dogs..

Your just picking random breeders, so let me ask you this, WHY are you listing those specific breeders? What made YOU choose them?


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> European lines or west lines *or *German lines. ...


Not sure if you know, but Germany is in Europe... 

And what are the 'west' lines?


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Maybe you can volunteer at a local GSD rescue for awhile. You could get a sense of what you want, plus you could - if you want to be sneaky - get in good with the rescue group so that if you want to adopt a gsd later they already know you and what you can offer. So...sneaky but useful. 

Jelpy


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I agree with Nancy, since you are really rather undecided on 'what' you want, it pays to go meet whatever breeder your interested in..If you don't want to travel, look up breeders in your area and go meet them, meet their dogs..
> 
> Your just picking random breeders, so let me ask you this, WHY are you listing those specific breeders? What made YOU choose them?


I'm fine with traveling. I'm certain what I want in a German shepherd. Plus because the German shepherd is a strong dog physically and mentally. A large male German shepherd 85-90lbs+.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Jelpy said:


> Maybe you can volunteer at a local GSD rescue for awhile. You could get a sense of what you want, plus you could - if you want to be sneaky - get in good with the rescue group so that if you want to adopt a gsd later they already know you and what you can offer. So...sneaky but useful.
> 
> Jelpy


I already volunteer at Bay Area german shepherd rescue! They are amazing.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

alexg said:


> Not sure if you know, but Germany is in Europe...
> 
> And what are the 'west' lines?


Of course I know. Not stupid.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Other options are TeMar, Bullinger, Von Rief, Five Peaks, HausReid, Otto, Rocky Mountain, and True Haus. True Haus list is really long though not ready to fill in a new client until a year. My rescue list: Bay Area GS rescue, Orange County, and Coastal Rescue. I asked to be put on a list for True Haus, but they said ok, but be awhile. So not sure of that. I'm looked for a family companion, one who is outgoing and active, loyal, strong, fearless.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

So you didn't answer my question, WHY have you picked these particular breeders? 

Your going from working lines/ show lines/ whatever lines..You may know what you want in a dog, but what is it for YOU that makes me these breeders stand out? Just because they have nice looking dogs? (I"m just asking here)..or something else?


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

Also, I might be wrong, but don't you have to sort of 'earn' the right to train a SAR pup by working with a SAR Team, learning how to train the pups, and then when one dog is going to be retired a new one is brought in? Or is that just in the one book I read about a SAR team?

jelpy


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

He's not going to do SAR. He's not willing to drive 3 hours to see a breeder, how in the world would he do SAR where you have to drice for hours to train and sometimes drop everything you're doing and drive for hours to actually search and rescue someone. If someone won't put in the work to do their own research for the right dog, you think they'll put in the work to actually train a dog in that type of venue?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Now you want the dog to be a service dog? I'm confused.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> So you didn't answer my question, WHY have you picked these particular breeders?
> 
> Your going from working lines/ show lines/ whatever lines..You may know what you want in a dog, but what is it for YOU that makes me these breeders stand out? Just because they have nice looking dogs? (I"m just asking here)..or something else?


I told you many times. I choose these breeders because they might be responsible breeders. There dogs seem really strong, stable, fearless, large males, protective, and active. Probably more the working lines. Although some of these breeders are working lines. My Aunts dog Swat is the kind of German shepherd I want. Although, Swat is a King Shepherd, an amazing dog loyalty, cuddly, strength, protective, outgoing, active, and an amazing hiking dog. Although feel sorry for him because he doesn't goes out for exercise much he is 7 feel sorry for him. He also runs off for 30 minutes on hikes which freaks me out, could get run over by car truck, or eaten by a cougar. I'm going to knock some since into her.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Can you define King Shepherd for me?


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Saphire said:


> Can you define King Shepherd for me?


Lol. According to a family friends daughter,

The oldest, most pure German German shepherd ever created. 

And for 400.00 and some kijiji skills you can certainly find a breeder of these fine tuned German German sheps.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

MY definition is simply an over sized GSD.


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## angierose (Apr 20, 2009)

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what you are looking for in a dog. The breeders you posted about you describe as having "really strong, stable, fearless, large males, protective, and active" dogs, but I have to say that's pretty generic. It's basically the breed description of a GSD. 

If you're not looking for something specific for sport or showing, but just need a healthy companion, are you simply asking us to tell you if the breeders you picked seem to be "responsible"?


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Saphire said:


> Can you define King Shepherd for me?


Swat is mostly German shepherd with a bit of Great Pyrenees. Mostly German shepherd, the strongest, fearless, most loyal, most protective dog I ever met. More amazing than any other dogs I know. He has that aura presence of a unique dog, reminds me of the dog in Radio Flyer.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

angierose said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what you are looking for in a dog. The breeders you posted about you describe as having "really strong, stable, fearless, large males, protective, and active" dogs, but I have to say that's pretty generic. It's basically the breed description of a GSD.
> 
> If you're not looking for something specific for sport or showing, but just need a healthy companion, are you simply asking us to tell you if the breeders you picked seem to be "responsible"?


Yes, as I'm quite nervous making a decision right now. My parents say they will get me a German shepherd, looking them up, something in my gut is telling me something.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

So Swat is a mixed breed dog, not a German nor "king" shepherd.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Saphire said:


> So Swat is a mixed breed dog, not a German nor "king" shepherd.


King shepherd, he is mixed. Although, I would like him particularly, we would make a perfect match we been friends for 5-years. Only see him once a year, this year is a little more than usual. We would be even have a stronger bond than Lobo and I, if I saw him as frequently. Swat is the majority of the time by my side when I visit.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

Lobobear44 said:


> Yes, as I'm quite nervous making a decision right now. My parents say they will get me a German shepherd, looking them up, something in my gut is telling me something.


If you are just looking for a pet and your parents are asking you where to get one from, why not go with the rescue you already volunteer for? All the characteristics you listed (strong, stable, fearless, active) can be found in a rescue GSD since that is what the breed is ideally supposed to be like. Not all of the rescue dogs will be right for you, so it will take patience. But for your first dog, not having any experience in working or showing your dog, it could help you learn a lot to get a rescue.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> If you are just looking for a pet and your parents are asking you where to get one from, why not go with the rescue you already volunteer for? All the characteristics you listed (strong, stable, fearless, active) can be found in a rescue GSD since that is what the breed is ideally supposed to be like.


That definitely sounds like the way to go... :thumbup:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

It even looks like they have some very nice dogs there!

Burgi's Roman


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I'm in agreement with the rescue,,since you volunteer there, I'm sure you have first dibs/see what's coming in before the public and could really end up with a NICE dog that needs a home..


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

You probably also need to understand a properly bred GSD may not bond immediately with you. The breed tends to be aloof at first, and, over time, forms an exceptionally strong bond with its "owner". So don't write off a dog that is not cuddly lovey dovey right away, some never are. It is all in the eyes. JMO. GSD eyes..I think you will understand if you have had THAT connection. It is powerful.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

jocoyn said:


> You probably also need to understand a properly bred GSD may not bond immediately with you. The breed tends to be aloof at first, and, over time, forms an exceptionally strong bond with its "owner". So don't write off a dog that is not cuddly lovey dovey right away, some never are. It is all in the eyes. JMO. GSD eyes..I think you will understand if you have had THAT connection. It is powerful.


That is your experience getting German shepherds as pups or rescues?


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Lobobear44 said:


> That is your experience getting German shepherds as pups or rescues?



Not Nancy, but as someone who has fostered and rehabilitated and rehomed GSD, and as someone who has bought puppies. I agree. It may take a bit, but the bond will happen regardless of age.


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## Nikitta (Nov 10, 2011)

I got both mine at Five peaks German Shepherds. They are german breds. Strictly pets but both are great dogs. I wish they were more aloof. I take them both to dog classes constantly and part of the exercise is to trade dogs with someone so they get used to being handled by other people and they both drag people around trying to get back to me, the big babies.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Can breeders get mad easily? What are their nerve gear points?


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Nikitta said:


> I got both mine at Five peaks German Shepherds. They are german breds. Strictly pets but both are great dogs. I wish they were more aloof. I take them both to dog classes constantly and part of the exercise is to trade dogs with someone so they get used to being handled by other people and they both drag people around trying to get back to me, the big babies.


How big are they? I want a large male German shepherd.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Probably should listen to what my gut has to say.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

breeders don't have all the time in the world to answer questions. IF they feel you aren't seriously considering them, they probably are not going to waste their time with constant emails/questions. 

You asked about this breeder in another post, there you go, nikitta has two dogs from one of them and that should be a good enough answer for you.

As for size, sometimes bigger isn't better, if you want a BIG german shepherd get a Shiloh or King shepherd..German shepherds bred to standard size may appear huge, but in reality aren't that heavy or aren't supposed to be anyhow..Size should be last on your list of "wants".


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Lobobear44 said:


> That is your experience getting German shepherds as pups or rescues?


I got Grim at 2 years old. Of all the dogs I have had, I have to admit the bond between us was quick and strong; he was "my dog" within a few hours of meeting him. I have to admit though as much as Beau makes me want to pull his hair out, we have a very strong bond as well; one so strong other people notice it. I got Beau as a puppy but did not really have a strong bond with him until 15-18 months. He is very independent.

But there was always physical affection between me and Grim who would delight in putting his head on my knee and leaning on me - no so much with Beau who can't sit still for long and does not crave physical contact (other than playing tug). But Beau has the deep gaze connection, no so a physical one. 

You have to figure that military handlers, police handlers......those dogs get handed off from one handler to another (particularly military)....but the bond between either of these handlers and their dogs who share life and death challenges is probably the strongest there is. I think ability to switch to new allegiances people is "in the breed"

I have to agree with Diane on the size. It may be that a Shiloh or a King really IS the best dog for YOU and that is ok...Lots of folks who work dogs want smaller, not bigger for many reasons.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Lobobear44 said:


> How big are they? I want a large male German shepherd.


Breeding Oversized, Large German Shepherds. big dogs in the mid-west family.
This is large.. is this what you want ? sounds like you just want a big male GSD more than anything


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> Breeding Oversized, Large German Shepherds. big dogs in the mid-west family.
> This is large.. is this what you want ? sounds like you just want a big male GSD more than anything


That whole write up doest not seem right. 
I cant imagine a giant GSD being as efficient as a compact dog that can search small spaces.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> That whole write up doest not seem right.
> I cant imagine a giant GSD being as efficient as a compact dog that can search small spaces.


Just wondering if that is what op looking for


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> Just wondering if that is what op looking for


I know! Just making a comment on her write up


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I know! Just making a comment on her write up


Oh um... The website is too much for me to read hahaha no offense to the breeder but my eyes bleed from all the color and flashings...


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

jocoyn said:


> GSD eyes..I think you will understand if you have had THAT connection. It is powerful.


Oh yeah, it's an amazing feeling seeing your dog looking at you with that powerful intellect and knowing gaze. I've had two that could speak volumes with their eyes, one would even take cues from my eye direction. Banjo was a weird one tho, an incredible combination of brawn and brains. He was a rescue BTW.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Lobobear44 said:


> That is your experience getting German shepherds as pups or rescues?


Lobo, my "heart" dog is a silly, lazy rescue mutt that we adopted as an adult. He was born in a rescue, adopted, and then returned, fostered, and adopted by us. He barely passed his CGC (which he took the obedience class for, twice) and does no other competition or training but he is my heart dog.

I've also adopted a female working line GSD at 3.5 years of age (she is now deceased) and trained her to earn 12 more titles. She would not even eat without me around, the bond was there (and actually a hindrance for her, she had weak nerves).

Right now I have a pit bull that was probably a year old, maybe a little older, when I adopted her (after being take into animal control several times until the owner stopped reclaiming her, then on the euthanasia list, then pulled and fostered) and she is the smartest dog I've ever owned. She learns even faster than my GSDs. She is also the sweetest dog, very cuddly, almost cat-like.

My 6 year old male GSD is my best example of high quality breeding, training, and success (he has about 25 titles). I have owned him since he was 7 weeks but he was a challenge as a young dog and I would say we bonded more when he was 3 years old until now than when he was younger. Nancy is totally right about the eyes. This dog is not cuddly at all. He likes to be near me at all times and will often sit on the other end of the couch or lie at my feet, but unlike the two dogs mentioned above he will not sit on my lap. The other night he lied down next to me in bed and rested his head on my shoulder. I thought this was really cute, he doesn't normally do that, but then I realized it was because I was eating a snack and he begs by acting as cute and loveable as possible. He is not touchy-feely but when you look into his eyes, it's like looking into a soul.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

JakodaCD OA said:


> breeders don't have all the time in the world to answer questions. IF they feel you aren't seriously considering them, they probably are not going to waste their time with constant emails/questions.
> 
> You asked about this breeder in another post, there you go, nikitta has two dogs from one of them and that should be a good enough answer for you.
> 
> As for size, sometimes bigger isn't better, if you want a BIG german shepherd get a Shiloh or King shepherd..German shepherds bred to standard size may appear huge, but in reality aren't that heavy or aren't supposed to be anyhow..Size should be last on your list of "wants".


I think wants depends, I know what I want in a German shepherd. perhaps I'm disorganized on this breeder and rescue thing. Have any suggestions to get better organized to choosing dogs between breeders?


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

You need to formulate a clearer list of requirements other than Big Male Hiking buddy. 

Then when you have been able to identify and verbalize what you want (lines, energy level, drive level, sociability level, aloofness, suspicion level, etc, etc, etc ), then you find two or three breeders that fit that criteria and introduce yourself. 

Filling in application form after application form and contacting dozens of breeders means you are just looking superficailly, and not seriously.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Ace GSD said:


> Breeding Oversized, Large German Shepherds. big dogs in the mid-west family.
> This is large.. is this what you want ? sounds like you just want a big male GSD more than anything



If you want big, go Royalair. Her dogs may not be standard but she has stood the test of time and is doing everything right. She titles and works her dogs, and does health testing. She is breeding on her own line several generations in. I do like big, but not oversized since I like the work ability of the breed. But if I was going to go for the huge thing, Royalair would be my only choice.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Sabis mom said:


> If you want big, go Royalair. Her dogs may not be standard but she has stood the test of time and is doing everything right. She titles and works her dogs, and does health testing. She is breeding on her own line several generations in. I do like big, but not oversized since I like the work ability of the breed. But if I was going to go for the huge thing, Royalair would be my only choice.


O yeah o agree i like how her dog looks too compare to other large GSD breeders hers look better. Im a big fan of Duke hehe


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Lucia gave you good advice on how to formulate a plan,,write it down..

I want XXXX
I don't want XXX


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

I think more than what kind of dog do you want, you should be asking yourself what kind of dog YOU are best suited for. Seriously. In my humble 68 years of experience ( yup, I was born into a family of three generations of shepherd breeders, both in the US and Germany), I will tell you...you have no experience with a shepherd, get a "shelter favorite" easy going, bombproof temperment, young adult. Stop worrying about bonding and size. I can tell from your posts that most reputable breeders would question your situation and requirements, of course the ones interested in $$$ will just hand you a puppy and pocket the cash. And...about health and temperment being better from a breeder...well...guarantees mean not much and are truthfully mostly just a marketing thing.
Seriously...get a shelter favorite, you will never be sorry. And hopefully, the dog won't be either. You seem a bit all over the place.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

katie also excellent advice


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

katieliz said:


> I think more than what kind of dog do you want, you should be asking yourself what kind of dog YOU are best suited for. Seriously. In my humble 68 years of experience ( yup, I was born into a family of three generations of shepherd breeders, both in the US and Germany), I will tell you...you have no experience with a shepherd, get a "shelter favorite" easy going, bombproof temperment, young adult. Stop worrying about bonding and size. I can tell from your posts that most reputable breeders would question your situation and requirements, of course the ones interested in $$$ will just hand you a puppy and pocket the cash. And...about health and temperment being better from a breeder...well...guarantees mean not much and are truthfully mostly just a marketing thing.
> Seriously...get a shelter favorite, you will never be sorry. And hopefully, the dog won't be either. You seem a bit all over the place.


Your words aren't a perfect match are they. I spend a lot of times with German shepherds European lines and German lines. Lobo and Dante, then their is Nico a working dog meant for military then King shepherd Swat. Even if I do get a German shepherd I will be happy who I got. On the pro side I will be learning a ton more since I will be with a GS 24/7.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> You need to formulate a clearer list of requirements other than Big Male Hiking buddy.
> 
> Then when you have been able to identify and verbalize what you want (lines, energy level, drive level, sociability level, aloofness, suspicion level, etc, etc, etc ), then you find two or three breeders that fit that criteria and introduce yourself.
> 
> Filling in application form after application form and contacting dozens of breeders means you are just looking superficailly, and not seriously.


Thank you for the great advice, I will take that in. Drive levels, energy lines, sociability, aloofness, suspicion level, etc are all important. I understand my energy level will, could hike for 10 miles and still up for another one next day. Yesterday with Swat I hiked him all around Thetis Lake along family, he and I were always ahead. Playing fetch, tug o war, with sticks, throwing sticks in lake, plus jogging stamina did not slow down at all. Swat doesn't have aloofness compared to Lobo, plus I only see Swat once a year since family lives in Canada. I'm in CA. this year is more than usual, still our bond would be stronger if we saw each other as much as Lobo. Way stronger, healthier bond, plus would be closer with my cousins too. 

Superficially, I don't know what you mean. As for seriously, making sure these breeders are responsible, along side learning, figuring things out, conclusions, see deep inside if life is right. Life is about choices. I'm hesitant calling breeders for some reason. Contacting dozens of breeders is probably overwhelming too.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

Not sure what my words were supposed to "match" but what I am sure of is that they were good, solid, sound advice from someone with a whole lotta experience in the subject being discussed and a whole lotta good common sense. If I do say so myself, lolol...

Ps...and also please, please realize that spending time with other people's shepherds does not make an "experienced" shepherd owner. Having a big, powerful dog will not help with your anxiety either. I have some personal experience with that issue too.


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

katieliz said:


> Not sure what my words were supposed to "match" but what I am sure of is that they were good, solid, sound advice from someone with a whole lotta experience in the subject being discussed and a whole lotta good common sense. If I do say so myself, lolol...
> 
> Ps...and also please, please realize that spending time with other people's shepherds does not make an "experienced" shepherd owner. Having a big, powerful dog will not help with your anxiety either. I have some personal experience with that issue too.


I'm sure spending time with shepherds, even though they are not mine does not mean I'm "not experienced" with the breed. We always get more experience, even better quality rather than just reading articles and books. On the contrary reading material does support knowledge, it's better quality to have actual experience. 5-years-ago I wouldn't have had control over Swat, Lobo, Dante as I do now. Although didn't know either Lobo or Dante at that time of course.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Well, you can baby sit and baby sit...but it's a whole different world when you have your _own _kids. Dogs really aren't that much different in terms of responsibility and commitment. Suddenly, you don't get to give them back to someone.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I meant, what energy level do you want in a dog? You could be high energy, but wanting a low energy dog that doesn't require much, or you could be low energy, but looking for a high energy dog to match your training goals. 





> Yesterday with Swat I hiked him all around Thetis Lake


Thetis Lake? In Victoria? I'm sure both you and Swat enjoyed it, but it's not that big a walk. Less than an hour, if I remember right? I used to do that walk on a regular basis with my Spaniel mix. If you are looking for more of a stamina challenge, try the 10km loop around Beaver/Elk lake and see how you manage that. No stopping!


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> I meant, what energy level do you want in a dog? You could be high energy, but wanting a low energy dog that doesn't require much, or you could be low energy, but looking for a high energy dog to match your training goals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thetis Lake, the one and only!  Swat and I had the best times of our lives there. So much energy went into us both, played, jogged, threw sticks the whole time, getting wet, and acting like fun life maniacs. We were actually at Thetis for 3-4 hours. Beaver Lake is also a favorite of mine. Haven't been to Beaver Lake in 4-years! I miss that lake! Unfortunately, aunt doesn't go there anymore due to something infectious. Poor Swat got an infected eye from swimming in that lake. He's better now thank goodness! 

Don't get to go to Victoria much only once a year since I live in CA. Quite sad, since cousins are almost all moved away home. :-(


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## Lobobear44 (Jan 28, 2013)

RocketDog said:


> Well, you can baby sit and baby sit...but it's a whole different world when you have your _own _kids. Dogs really aren't that much different in terms of responsibility and commitment. Suddenly, you don't get to give them back to someone.


Your right about that, however being an owner of a German shepherd. This will help me learn and grow. Maybe I will change from this shepherd. Still young 19, so much is changing in front of my eyes currently in life due to so many events at once. 2014 has been crazy this year for senioritis.


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## Kaimeju (Feb 2, 2013)

So, when people talk about energy level and drives, these are not "more is better." They are a spectrum and you want to think about your daily life with the dog and how that would match up. You aren't going to have time to hike ten miles a day. What exercise and training do you have time for on a *daily* basis? What training classes are *realistic* for you to go to? Nosework is great but stuff like schutzhund and SAR is way too much of a commitment right now.

When people talk about having experience, they are talking about taking responsibility for the dog as your own, not just being familiar with the breed. From your new dog you will learn a lot no matter where they come from. For example, you will learn how to troubleshoot behavior problems and you will understand more deeply your dog's strengths and weaknesses. You will have to figure out long-term, big picture things like socialization and healthcare. You learn these things by starting with a dog that challenges you but doesn't completely overwhelm you.

I agree shelter favorite would be good. Although please ask them about temperament testing and history-ask to see documents. My dog had two sets of conflicting documents and I took her home not realizing she was dog aggressive.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Lobobear44 said:


> Your right about that, however being an owner of a German shepherd. This will help me learn and grow. Maybe I will change from this shepherd. Still young 19, so much is changing in front of my eyes currently in life due to so many events at once. 2014 has been crazy this year for senioritis.


That is why it is a great time to WAIT. Keep volunteering at the shelter and going to dog events and meeting people and dogs. For most people, this is the wrong age/stage of their life to get a new dog.


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