# Very thin dog gave birth - need help



## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

We rescued a very thin Aussie a week ago and in the process of taking her to the vet found out she was full of tapeworms/hookworms and anemic. She was also very pregnant. Although the vet thought it would be 2 - 3 more weeks. Well she gave birth tonight. She has not really been interested in eating for the past several days. I have not had much experience with an almost emaciated dog giving birth. Actually I have only experience one litter in my life. How can I get her to eat and eat enough to support the babies? So far she has 5. Also, should I wait until tomorrow to even try to feed her? Would it be helpful if I try to supplement the babies? They seem to be in good health. Thank you for your time. Oh- the vet did worm her and put her on iron for 21 days.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

whewwww...I'd call the vet. The vet has a better handle on her physical condition.


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

What is important right now is to get her liquids and some energy.

Do you have any Vanilla Ice Cream (not diet stuff). Give her about 1/4 cup of that, if she still has babies to birth that will give her some energy, the calcium helps with contractions and it will get some fluid in her. The calcium also helps with getting her to produce milk.

Make this now but Wait a few hours to offer it to her, make her a nice pot of stew or soup, beef or chicken or turkey, maybe some carotts. She needs her fluids and some good stuff. 

I would be tempted since she is in rough shape to either put her on puppy food or dog food with a side helping of home cooked.

Val


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would be concerned with her calcium level. At this point I agree to start with the vet. But feeding her high quality kibble, chicken, yougurt or cottage cheese with every meal, and a hard boiled egg once per day worked for Jenna, she gained weight supporting ten puppies. 

Also a vitamin. I do not know the brand name though, something a friend of mine gets in special. Not specifically for calcium though. 

I also fed Jenna a dish of ice cream several times a week. 

I think the important thing to do is to jump start the appetite. Is she cleaning the pups and eating the nasty placentas? It is natural and will provide her with nourishment. It will help the milk come down and give her black tarry poos, possibly diahrrea. 

Offer fresh water regularly, but I have learned not to leave even a small bowl in the box with her -- a two day old pup figured out a way to land in it. 

So to jump start the appetite, offer ANYTHING that she might be interested in. Your dinner's leftovers. Potato soup, beef stew, roast beef hash -- something that she will eat. After she is eating, the extras in the food, cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt or egg will help make her want to eat. 

Good luck.


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## gbocrafty (Apr 2, 2009)

At least she is in a safe place to give birth. Thanks for being there for her. I have no recommendations- leave that for the experts.


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## Alto (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes call the vet that saw her! these pups may be premature or grossly under weight etc.
Until you hear back, call every local vet/rescue/kennel/breeder - hopefully you'll find someone local that can come as soon as possible or help you source the items you'll need - also call any aussie or border collie rescues that are in your time zone.
Plan on "bottle" feeding (hopefully your vet is experienced or can direct you to someone locally that can help out).

Hopefully the mum will at least be able to produce some colostrum - if not, there is an antiobiotic series that the vet can give to lessen the chance of _Fading Puppy Syndrome_.
These pups need to be fed as soon as possible as they are ve susceptible to dehydration (may already be born in this state given the mother's history). 

A how to e-book
http://leerburg.com/pdf/bottlefeedingpuppies.pdf

Video series (by a vet)
http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_1376_care-newborn-puppies.html


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## BMD0123 (Oct 15, 2008)

Baby food such as turkey or beef might also help to jump start her appetite. Make sure it doesn't have onions though!


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

We are up to 6 - we had 7 but I lost one. She had two very close together and that one was not moving in the sack and I couldnt get it going after whe cleaned it all off either. Tried mouth to mouth but that didnt work either. All the other pups seem to be doing well, and she is producing milk. They are suckling. I am more concerned with her. I grew up on a farm and have raised foals, pigs, kittens and one litter of pups. I just never got into breeding dogs and have always been lucky not to rescue a pregnant one before. The vet said to keep her on the iron, give her a tums for calcium and give her anything she would eat. that is my problem. She just deosnt seem to want to eat. I even tried raw hamburger. I got stuff tonight to make satin balls. and I got canned dog food. I feed premium food and am giving her puppy food. I free feed. (I have ratties and they are hard to keep weight on due to activity level so I leave the food out and that seemed to solve my issue with them) I will give her some ice cream tonight if she will eat it. Keep your fingers crossed. thanks for all your quick replies. I will pick up some baby food tomorrow too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Some warm left overs from your dinner will sometimes tempt her to eat it.

Make sure she is warm but not overheated. 

Offer her something to drink, if she will not drink water, try a few ice cubes. 

Check her temperature. She may need antibiotics - ammoxicilin or clavamox if she is running a fever. 

I have never had a bitch whelp that was way underweight. It may be hard to get her to eat much. You can make a hard boiled egg and cottage cheese mixture that will give her protein and calcium. 

Good luck and thanks for helping the girlie out.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Can you force feed her by putting food into her mouth? It seems essential that she eats right now...


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

OK, looks like she had the last two a little over an hour ago. Yes it is important that she eat, but since you don't know how many pups she had in the oven she might not be done OR she is just tired and resting. The litter I helped whelp when the female was done she drank a little water and settled in with her pups and took a nap. The breeder went to take a shower, I watched the bitch and pups, we chatted for a while offered some home cooked, bitch not interested. I went home to take a shower, told breeder I would call when I got home took care of my crew and took a shower. By the time I got that done the bitch woke up and ate some food.

As long as she will take some thing to drink or some ice cream, don't panic for a few hours. They are just really tired and not feeling like eating just yet.

If she hasn't eaten by morning I would take her into the vet. She might need a clean out shot, she might need a B-12 shot to kick in her interest to eat.

Val


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I wouldn't force food into her unless your vet recommends that. Dogs, like people, can get amazingly skinny, really realllly bone thin skinny & still be pretty healthy. That her pups look healthy is an excellent sign. While they were literally devouring the flesh from her bones, their general good health indicates she had it to give. 

Continue to offer unsalted broth, yogurt, vanilla ice cream, cottage cheese, cooked chicken & hamburger. Given her depleted health & malnourished state, feeding raw, especially raw ground meat, might not be a good idea until she's regained strength & vigor. Between the pregnancy & starvation her immune system could be seriously weakened at this time.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

You may try NutiCal. It is a sticky syrupy type product that is high in nutrients and dogs/pups like it. Put some on your finger and let her smell it/lick it. Then follow the directions. DYNE (Revival Health, or Lambert Vet. Supply on-line) also makes a liquid vanilla tasting product that is full of vitamns and sugars that usually helps in this situation. Mixing GatorAid in her drinking water will help also.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

How are things today?

I have been watching this thread and would love to have an update. I am sure you are very busy.. what an experience this has been for you (and doggy mom).

I wish everyone in this situation all the best... great work so far!


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

I was hoping for an update also. Unless momma isn't feeding the pups, human momma's work isn't too bad until 4 - 5 weeks of age. Then you really want to pull your hari out because the cute little pooping/peeing machines are getting more mobile and vocal.


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

we have 6 healthy puppies today. 4 girls and 2 boys. mostly merles. Mommy is doing a lot better about eating. I am supplementing her with satin balls and mixing canned in with dry puppy food. she is eaing and drinking very well. I am a bit worried about the runt. I bought some goat milk to make the formula I found on leersburg site in case I think the runt needs it. she is an excellent mom and I am very proud of her. thank you all for being there. I promise to keep you posted. I wont be on tomorrowas I have to work very late. Thank you again.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Good job and good luck Brenda. Definately keep us updated on how momma and babies (and you!) are doing.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Glad to hear everyone is doing well.

You sound like you are coping well and doing everything for this girl and her babies.

It is nice to see that even when someone is thrown something like this they still stay committed, good for you!

I am looking forward to updates and pictures of everyone (notice I how snuck that in there) soon.

Good luck!!!


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I wanted to sneak the pic request in but waited for someone else to do it, lol


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

Good job moms. Does doggie mom have a name, I hate to just keep calling her momma. I am glad she is eating and drinking. Keep an eye on the runt, if there is a decent weight gain I wouldn't worry too much. Some times those ruts are just slow weight gainers, by the time they are adults they are usually the same size as their sibblings.

Get some rest how for in a few weeks you are going to have your hands full.

Val


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

I am sneaking this in while I am supposed to be working. anyway, Sad to say I lost the runt during the night. I did supplement her last night but it just didnt make a difference. I am depressed. The good news is the others are very fat and healthy. Momma dogs name is Mikayla. My daughter has wanted an Aussie for a long time since she lost hers and she is buying a house. So I had decided when I rescued her I would give her to my daughter as a gift. That is on hold now until pups are older. Mikayla is a great mom and is protective of her babies. I drove her crazy last night when I moved them so I could clean out her crate. I will get pictures soon.


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## sclark1795 (Jul 2, 2004)

So sorry to hear about the little runt. What a great job you have done taking this all on. I hope things keep looking up for momma and babies.

Best of luck
Sue


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Aww.. I am so sorry to hear about the little ones passing...

Although I am happy that Momma Mikayla and the rest of the puppies are doing well.

You are doing an amazing job!!!


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## GSDBESTK9 (Mar 26, 2002)

Glad they are doing well. Do you think the pups are purebred? Can't wait to see the pictures.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Sometimes there is something wrong with a little one. It just wasn't meant to be. But the six other pups are doing well, that is great. Try not to stress mom too much, but you should be able to handle the puppies, and weigh them, etc. 

Good luck.


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

There are only 5 now since the runt passed. I do believe they are purebred although it is very hard to tell at this stage of the game. 4 of them are merle color and that cant tell me for sure because she is a red merle. I think I will know more around 5 weeks old. I still wish Mikayla would eat better. She will only eat the satin balls or canned food alone. I am going to sink to the level of buying her a bag of purina puppy chow to see if she will eat that. She obviously doesnt like the other food I have and I have tried both chicken and lamb variety. I am not sure what else to do and she needs to eat something. I honestly can not afford to feed her enough raw as I just spent a lot of money on HOmer (I posted him on another thread about him having seizures after I put Adams spot on flea & tick) Any ideas. She wouldt eat ice cream.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Brenda, are you concerned that the satin balls & canned are nutritionally inadequate or are they too expensive with your other responsibilities? 

I'm sorry about the runt. Perhaps there was something wrong with the pup or perhaps the poor thing was weakened by Mikayla's situation. As painful as this is, there will be less stress & demand on Mikayla, which will benefit both Mikayla & her surviving pups. 

How is Mikayla's fluid intake?


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

RubyTuesday - the expense more than anything. I just spent $400 at the vet on the other dog, $100 on her and $300 on hay for the horses. Of course that is just the extra - not counting the normal amounts for flea/tick, heartworm etc. I can do it if I have to but would be much easier if these were supplements vs. full food amount. If that makes sense. Her fluid intake is very good. I keep water in with her and then when she goes in and out she also drinks out of the one in the kitchen. She likes that dish better but I dont want to keep a dish in the crate the pups can get into so I only have a plastic one that is screwed up high. When I first brough her home I fed her a less quality food and she ate that fine (any rescue I bring home that is in her state I usually start out with that and then start mixing the higher quality in over time until they are all ont he high quality - I have had better digest with that way of going) but as I mixed the other and then got only to the higher quality she didnt wqant to eat anymore. So I thought I may need to just put her back on the lower quality but make it puppy food. At least then she will be eating more. they are going to the vets today for a checkup and to get the dew claws removed from the pups so we will see what the vet says. She is on vitamins and iron daily.


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## ellen366 (Nov 2, 2007)

i have a friend who does rescue and does primarily pregnant dogs and young pups; she's got lots of experience w/this situation and has raised abandoned pups and pups whose moms have died

she swears by calf formula that you can get at the tractor supply company (TSC) store; she says just be sure that the packaging says ok for dogs/pups...apparently there are different types

good luck w/mom and the pups

ellen


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## WiscTiger (Sep 25, 2002)

She may need to eat several times a day. I think their stomach shrinks and they can only take in X amount of food. 

So small quanitys of quality food and protein is better than larger amounts of less quality.

Sorry to hear about the runt, some times things just aren't meant to be.

Val


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Brenda, how are Mikayla and the pups today?


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

Hi everyone. Mikayla and the pups are doing well. The 5 are fat little piggies. Mamma is still being a little picky about eating. That bothers me. I wish she would eat better. I leave hard food in with her and then supplement with the other. That way she can eat whenver she wants too. I know how much I put in the dish so I can measure her intake. I swear I will get pictures but this weekend has been very busy already.


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Glad to hear everything is going well. Hopefully she starts eating better.. poor girl. You are doing a fantastic job!


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

How do I post pictures.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

Brenda,
If you want to email them to me, I'll be glad to post them. [email protected]


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

It's so good to hear Mikayla and the babies are doing well. Hopefully she starts eating better soon.


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## kshort (Jun 4, 2004)

What a beautiful family! They all look great Brenda!


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## Julie'somom (Jun 13, 2004)

They all look very healthy. I think you are going to have a lot of fun raising this litter. It will be fun watching mom bond with you in the mean time.

julie'somom


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## ellen366 (Nov 2, 2007)

aaahhhh; they're adorable; i do love puppies
mom looks really good too
keep up the good work
ellen


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

Wow. They look great! It will be interesting to see if they are PB or not. The babies are too cute.


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

I had a huge scare when I came home today. One of the puppies was missing. Turns out the little bugger escaped out the side of the wire crate. I thought i had those secured but she pushed through. Trying duck tape and towels now. Does anyone have any better ideas? I have to keep in a crate as I do not have any other area for her as she is a little dog aggressive (understanadably) and I have a toy rat terrier 5lbs and a chihuahua pup that is only 2 lbs. so I have to be very careful and she is only out when I am home. The crate is secured in our bathroom so the other dots do not have access to her when I am not around.


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

I don't know. Maybe plywood? I would be careful with the towels though. If the baby could push through what can happen if it pushes through and gets stuck in the towels? The breeders will probably have better answers than me.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

A lot of people keep a litter in a child's swimming pool. 

I would crate the other dogs not a bitch with pups. I would find a room where she could have plenty of space. I cannot imagine making her wait to potty or potty right where the litter is. 

Also, without a pig rail, you run the risk of her lying on and squishing one. If they can get their heads through the bars of the crate, then that is also risky. 

I understand this is a rescue, and you probably do not have everything on hand or the funds available to set up a good area for her. I guess you do what you can. 

Please do not label her dog aggressive because she went for a dog while pregnant or lactating. It IS understandable. But protecting the other dogs is still important. Having a new mom and pups, the new mom takes precedence always. If she is stressed, she can hemmorrage, or she can pass the stress onto the pups, or she can even kill the puppies. 

At the very least the bitch should have room enough to move away from the puppies if she wants to, if she gets too hot, that can be a serious issue. pups should be able to move away from the pile when hot, and pile together for warmth. I cannot imagine doing this in a crate. 

I would get an ex-pen and set it up, use one by fours around the bottom of each side, and if possible set up a pig rail. Put this is a room and leave the door open so that the mother can step in and out of it. As the puppies get bigger, you may have to Adjust the gate area to make it higher, not sure how you can do that.

Good luck with the puppies.


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## tnwlkr (Oct 17, 2002)

Sorry I should have made it clear. She is not in there all the time. She is lose but I put the pups in a crate and put a blanket over it because when she first had them she wanted to hide them. The crate is in our bathroom behind closed doors. She is only locked in if we have to leave the house - normally my husband is home all day as he is retired. I lock her in then only as a safety precaution to keep her from chewing through a door. She gets a little stressed when she is enclosed and wants out. We try not to leave her at all but sometimes it is necessary but we keep it short. I didnt mean she was dog aggressive all the time, I meant she would go after them and understandably as she doesnt feel good. But when you are dealing with a 5lb and 2lb dog, a little snap can be a deadly thing. That is why I never allow them alone together. The only place I have totally set up woudl be a nice kennel outside, but I cant do that as it is getting a little too cold at night right now so the pups need to stay in the house. I fixed my issue as I got a crate that has very tight wires that they cant go in between. The crate door is open and she has access to the bathroom which is actually bigger than my bedroom is. She has started spending time out with us during the day & night, about a half hour to hour at a time and then she goes back to the door and asks to be let in. Almost 2 weeks - 6 more to go. Hopefully....... then the real job of finding good people to take the pups will ensue. 

What is everyone's opinion about fixing them before they go to new homes? I have never had one fixed that young and dont know if it is ok or if it would create problems with the females? I have heard spaying that young can cause incontinence issues?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you think that these puppies are going to local homes, is there anyway that you can purchase a spay or neuter certificate from your local vet? 

Instead of speutering them early which is really contraversial, if you provide the speuter certificate and have it set up so that it must be used within 12 months of the purchase date and not transferrable, then you can set it up with your vet so that you will know how many of the purchasers actually made use of this. Those that did not, you should be refunded that money. 

I know you do not want the puppies to reproduce, but I do not know that the possible problems associated with early spay/neuter are worth the risk. I mean, if you found out that one of the pups had to be euthanised at age 5 from osteosarcoma and it suffered, and you knew that there is a link between osteosarcoma snd early spay/neuter, would that be better or worse than finding out that one of your pups sired or whelped a litter?


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't buy the link between osteosarc and early spay or neuter. I think it's a lot of hooey. Greyhounds are rarely spayed or neutered before the age of two and frequently much later between five and seven years of age and yet they still have an extremely high occurrence of this terrible cancer.

Have these puppies spayed or neutered as early as possible. Our local humane society does this as early as 8 weeks and I haven't heard of any real long term problems with it that would be worse than not doing it. The general public is generally stupid and can't be trusted to have this done and prevent unwanted litters.

As far as spay incontinence, again back to greyhounds who are routinely done at a later age, they still occasionally get this. Spaying can cause this, but it doesn't seem to matter what age it's done. Even some of the brood bitches that are spayed between 8 and 10 sometimes get it. It seems to be a more individual dog thing and no way to predict it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do buy the osteosarcoma link. I also think that a lot of immune difficiency stuff cropping up now adays has something to do with the lack of hormones. 

If you look at the thyroid gland and all the stuff it affects, is it not possbile that estrogen and testosterone play more of a part in overall health than what we are claiming. 

My vet tells me all the time, that this thing or that thing is so common. I wonder if the increase in a lot of these things corresponds to the increase in people speutering their pets. And I wonder if the age that we speuter is so much a factor as whether or not we speuter. 

Greyhounds may be genetically predisposed to the disease. That means nothing really. 

I agree about spay incontinance. However, spaying a female later in life means less possible years of spay incontinence. 

Not every dog that has parts will be bred. However, I can see that fostering this litter can make you feel even more pro-speuter with good cause. I tried to offer an alternative to hacking up a puppy this young. I still have some of my ten week old pups, and I just cannot imagine putting them at this point under the knife. I would rather none of them have the surgery ever. But I do not discourage my people from spay/neuter, I just encourage them to wait.


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## GSD4LIFE21 (Mar 8, 2007)

omg they are precious. I am glad the momma is ok and the surviving puppies are good. Too, oh man I would love an agility bud.....


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## jaggirl47 (Jul 18, 2009)

How is the family doing? We haven't had an update in a while!!!


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

How adorable! Yes, more updates


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