# I cant seem to normalize Ava's poo's on RAW



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

It's me again..I know I drive ya'll crazy. 

Ava's been on Raw for 1 week today. She Loves it...i love it. Everythings great except that I can't get her poo's to normalize. Sometimes she squirts out what looks like water, other times she strains and squirts of chocolate pudding. She is only doing this twice a day so that's good but the consistency is all wrong. At no time has she had a solid poo. 

I am feeding her twice a day...RMB is either a chicken winglette or chicken wing. and the MM is either ground beef or hearts/gizzards. I added OM of liver the first day or two and then decided to hold off on that as it may have been too rich for her. I give her a dollup of yogurt once a day and her salmon oil and vit e. Oh I am feeding 50/50 RMB & MM. Should I change it to more RMB??

I cannot find canned pumpkin anywhere!! I have been to 4 different grocery stores with no luck!! 

Any suggestions are appreciated as always!! I need tootsie rolls in my yard not choc. pudding!!


----------



## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

I think the rule of thumb is: Runny stool, pudding = add more bone.
Constipation, straining = add more MM, OM.

Start slowly, do not add new ingredient, till poo is ok.

Also, I made sure to add digestive enzymes, before starting raw, & during in the beginning. & probiotics.

Also, my pup had to have a round of Metronidazole after I brought her home at 7 weeks. I pretty much had to insist on it at vets; they didn't seem as concerned with pudding poo as I was, as she checked out healthy every other way!; after couple doses, poo was fine.

I am raw feeder just over a year, lots here with more experience!!!


----------



## mtmarabianz (Jan 7, 2010)

Wanted to add, small meals, ie, if pudding add a wing next feeding with no mm, or less mm; you will probably need some muscle meat as wings are bonier; see how that go's (sorry for pun). Adjust for poo!!

I am thinking though, with a young puppy, a vet is in order & probably the metronidazole


----------



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

mtmarabianz said:


> Wanted to add, small meals, ie, if pudding add a wing next feeding with no mm, or less mm; you will probably need some muscle meat as wings are bonier; see how that go's (sorry for pun). Adjust for poo!!
> 
> I am thinking though, with a young puppy, a vet is in order & probably the metronidazole


I hate to just put her on metronidazole. Seems to me to just be feeding drugs for really no good reason when all I probably need to do is adjust what I am feeding. Any particular reason you suggest metronidazole?? She's not dehydrated and her puddings (lol) aren't multiple times a day. 

yogurt is considered a digestive enzyme right? what is considered a probiatic?


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

If she has only been on raw a week - it may be too much variety at once. Pick one protein source and forget the liver for now. Get poo normal and then start adding more variety.


----------



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

mspiker03 said:


> If she has only been on raw a week - it may be too much variety at once. Pick one protein source and forget the liver for now. Get poo normal and then start adding more variety.


good point. I will stick with chicken and ground beef. The breeder already had her on ground beef so I know she is ok with that. I will leave out the gizzards/hearts and the liver and see if that works. I guess I have her system on overload right now.


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

hearts and gizzards are MM, so I wouldn't worry too much about those - I would worry more about the liver. Personally, if she is having poop issues sticking with one protein source (ie just chicken - chicken RMB's and chicken MM) will help you figure out what is going instead of having to guess - is it beef or is it chicken. I would also forget the salmon oil for now as well. I find keeping it super simple is the easiest way to figure out what is causing the problems. Also, it could be the amount of fat in the chicken. It could be that you are over feeding. It could be you don't have the right ratio of bone:meat. 

Also, it would help to know how much (as in ounces/lbs) you are feeding of each item. Different RMB's have different amounts of bone in them. If I were using wings as my RMB, I usually do about 40% RMB and the rest MM (and that varies depending on what else they are eating and which dog I am feeding as Levi needs more MM than Leyna).


----------



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

mspiker03 said:


> hearts and gizzards are MM, so I wouldn't worry too much about those - I would worry more about the liver. Personally, if she is having poop issues sticking with one protein source (ie just chicken - chicken RMB's and chicken MM) will help you figure out what is going instead of having to guess - is it beef or is it chicken. I would also forget the salmon oil for now as well. I find keeping it super simple is the easiest way to figure out what is causing the problems. Also, it could be the amount of fat in the chicken. It could be that you are over feeding. It could be you don't have the right ratio of bone:meat.
> 
> Also, it would help to know how much (as in ounces/lbs) you are feeding of each item. Different RMB's have different amounts of bone in them. If I were using wings as my RMB, I usually do about 40% RMB and the rest MM (and that varies depending on what else they are eating and which dog I am feeding as Levi needs more MM than Leyna).


 
AHHHHHHHHHHH. different amounts of bone in the different RMB's???? I didnt read that ANYWHERE!!! OMG I am SSOOOOOOO about ready to quit!!!!


----------



## kearanentalo (Nov 2, 2009)

Things I Have found that help are:
1. probiotics, I use Prozyme
2. Kelp
3. Pumpkin
4. More bone
5. Honest Kitchen carries a product called "Perfect Form" which I like very well.


----------



## tatiana (Feb 3, 2010)

I had a similar problem with my puppy when I started her on raw. We began with chicken, like you're doing. Anyway, it took me about a week of reading about raw to realize that the fatty skin was probably too much for her.

I carefully removed ALL the chicken skin I could and in a few days her poop firmed up. She is still very sensitive to fat so I cut out everything I can. She still gets some, but if I slip up and give her a leg quarter with skin, it's ishy poop again.

Of course, if your pup has some bug, then medication or other remedies are in order. This was just my experience with my puppy.


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

Dakota also can't handle chicken with the skin on... I know its great but unless he gets it all cut off, we get yucky poops.  So right now, Stick with one thing.... one rmb and one mm and then after 2 weeks, you can worry about slowly incorporating OM and other proteins (one by one).

For MM I would either get ground chicken, or chicken breasts to start. and then for RMB ( I know you said she was inhaling the necks, so those are out) are going to be drumsticks or wings. Since you haven't described her poops as even being firm or too firm. Don't do the 50/50. I would go with a 65/35 RMB/MM ratio for now. Also wait on anymore yogurt, probiotics are ok, but you don't know if she is lactose intolerant and it wouldn't help her at this point if she is. 

Also, pumpkin is having shortage problems because something like 90% of their crop failed last year due to rain. So I have used sweet potatoes to help Dakota. it is pretty high in sugar (compared to pumpkin), but it has a lot of fiber, like pumpkin and is easily found.

When you feed the 65/35 ratio, if you find that her poops become too hard and she becomes constipated, then you can reduce the rmb/mm to 60/40..... if she still is having problems after a few day on the 65/35 with runny poop, then it might just be too much fat on the chicken, and you can try removing the skin from the wing/ drumstick.


----------



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

Thats GSDSunshine!! Very good point about the yogurt. I will for sure cut that out. It never even dawned on me that there could be a lactose problem. I was just thinking probiotics!! 

Pumpkin shortage?!?! First I heard of that. Certainly does explain alot though. I know I can find sweet potatoes. Do you get canned or just the regular sweet potatoe itself and cook and mash it?

Thanks for the advice. I got ahead of myself and already packaged and froze the next 2 weeks worth of her meals so I am going to have to thaw out a couple days worth and change up my percentages. Hopefully that will work. I so dont want to give up on raw as she and I are both loving it!


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

GSDSunshine said:


> Since you haven't described her poops as even being firm or too firm.


The original post did mention some straining. I personally think 60% wings and 40% MM is going to be a bit much on the bone aspect. Now if you were going to feed a different RMB, I would probably change up the percentages, depending on what RMB you were going to feed.

ETA: You will find each dogs needs a slightly different ratio of RMB:MM and you will just have to figure out what your dogs needs (taking into consideration that each RMB has different amounts of bone, your percentage of RMB:MM will vary depending on what RMB you feed)


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

> Sometimes she squirts out what looks like water, other times she strains and squirts of chocolate pudding.


From this it sounds like they have never been solid. Dogs will also strain when they have runny poop, so really it depends on what the OP meant. 

Leigh, the sweet potato needs to be the fresh kind. The canned has a ton of sugar and salt in ti, both not good. What I do when I make sweet potatoes is fork the whole sweet potatoes and nuke them until well done. lol then I peel and mush. Not hard. And you can through the extra in the fridge.


----------



## lrodptl (Nov 12, 2009)

Farmer's Market Organic Foods

Just got a dozen cans of organic pumpkin via Amazon.


----------



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

mspiker03 said:


> The original post did mention some straining. I personally think 60% wings and 40% MM is going to be a bit much on the bone aspect. Now if you were going to feed a different RMB, I would probably change up the percentages, depending on what RMB you were going to feed.
> 
> ETA: You will find each dogs needs a slightly different ratio of RMB:MM and you will just have to figure out what your dogs needs (taking into consideration that each RMB has different amounts of bone, your percentage of RMB:MM will vary depending on what RMB you feed)


Is there somewhere that I can find the different amounts of bones in the different RMB's? I mean, obviously to me, wings have more bones than thighs but I could be off. I have about a week and a half of raw food still...if I can't regulate her poo's by then, I am going to have to switch her over to Orijin LBP.


----------



## AvaLaRue (Apr 4, 2010)

GSDSunshine said:


> From this it sounds like they have never been solid. Dogs will also strain when they have runny poop, so really it depends on what the OP meant.
> 
> Leigh, the sweet potato needs to be the fresh kind. The canned has a ton of sugar and salt in ti, both not good. What I do when I make sweet potatoes is fork the whole sweet potatoes and nuke them until well done. lol then I peel and mush. Not hard. And you can through the extra in the fridge.


They were more like soft serve icecream when she first came home from the breeder but she was on TOTW and she would have to go 6-7 times per day. So that's why I took her off of TOTW. Now with the choc. pudding poo's, she strains and gets just a tiny bit out. She has put on almost 4 pounds in over a week but I'm wondering if its just poo wieght that she's not getting out of her system. LOL.

Thanks for the info on the sweet potatoes. Going to get her some tonite.


----------



## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl

According to this database a wing has 46% refuse(from bone).
A chicken drumstick has 33% bone.

You can search them on this website. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/


----------



## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

My dogs take a while to get used to raw liver. Even a tablespoon amount was enough to send my adult GSD into diarrhea. I had to build it up very gradually.


----------

