# Trainer Warning in Blackforest Colorado



## EllZuni (May 31, 2019)

On one of my Colorado GSD groups we were talking about trainers, so I thought I should put a warning up here too. Do NOT take your gsd to (name removed) if you live in or around the Black Forest area. This trainer has extreme biases against German Shepherds. My gsd is mine and my family’s very first dog, so we looked to a trainer to guide us. When we asked about other German Shepherds she’s worked with, the trainer told us that you can almost never have a stable German Shepherd, that they are rare, maybe 2 in every thirty dogs will have a manageable temperament

Looking back now, there was a lot of flaws in her philosophy (her own dog listened to her commands only half the time, and was obese), but it scared us at the time. In reality, any dog that isn’t guided by half a bag of treats to do things is labeled as untrainable there. This trainer simply cannot provide what a German Shepherd requires, but honestly, I’d discourage all breeds from going to (name removed).
Edited: _for details please message privately_


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Yes, FBI clue is when a, trainer's dogs are not obedient. I've never been, and never will be, a fan of training with treats. I have to admit, I did use treats when Oskar was about 8 weeks to 14 weeks, but after that I nixed it. Never used treats to train any dogs I've trained in the past, and they were all rock solid.


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

I think the problem lies with the different definitions of 'stable'. None of my dogs would have ever been termed 'stable'. They all came with personality 'quirks'. Not all dogs are the same and it's not possible to change them into some model of 'trained' as defined by one trainer. I think some folks just cannot accept that they cannot control dogs. I think that no matter what I do Duke will find great joy in dancing and singing.around the house with my shoe. Bad habit, yes. But take it away from him? why? At some point it becomes, not about the dog's behavior but about the trainer's need for control. 
If you are going to use a trainer, you have to watch them carefully, not so much to learn from them but to protect your dog from them.


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Buckelke said:


> I think the problem lies with the different definitions of 'stable'. None of my dogs would have ever been termed 'stable'. They all came with personality 'quirks'. Not all dogs are the same and it's not possible to change them into some model of 'trained' as defined by one trainer. I think some folks just cannot accept that they cannot control dogs. I think that no matter what I do Duke will find great joy in dancing and singing.around the house with my shoe. Bad habit, yes. But take it away from him? why? At some point it becomes, not about the dog's behavior but about the trainer's need for control.
> If you are going to use a trainer, you have to watch them carefully, not so much to learn from them but to protect your dog from them.


Funny, my Oskar does the same thing, not my shoe, but my slipper, every single time he's let out of his kennel in the morning, or brought inside from outside, in the daytime.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Everyone has to find out for themselves. A trainer told me all black German Shepherds are crazy. He watched my puppy in a group of puppies and said he was aggressive. I said, you can’t tell he’s trying to herd them and he is playing? No, it was aggression. He also said my WL’s drive was really bad and I had to train it out of him. This is a well respected and popular local trainer. I had used him before for rescues and he was relatively good. I found a new trainer who said it was typical herding dog behavior, which I already knew, then we worked on acceptable alternatives using his drive in the way it’s supposed to be used.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

EllZuni said:


> On one of my Colorado GSD groups we were talking about trainers, so I thought I should put a warning up here too. Do NOT take your gsd to (name removed) if you live in or around the Black Forest area. This trainer has extreme biases against German Shepherds. My gsd is mine and my family’s very first dog, so we looked to a trainer to guide us. When we asked about other German Shepherds she’s worked with, the trainer told us that you can almost never have a stable German Shepherd, that they are rare, maybe 2 in every thirty dogs will have a manageable temperament
> 
> Looking back now, there was a lot of flaws in her philosophy (her own dog listened to her commands only half the time, and was obese), but it scared us at the time. In reality, any dog that isn’t guided by half a bag of treats to do things is labeled as untrainable there. This trainer simply cannot provide what a German Shepherd requires, but honestly, I’d discourage all breeds from going to (name removed).
> Edited: _for details please message privately_


Why is it you were looking for a trainer? What were your expectations of the trainer? What was your ultimate goal from working with this trainer? These are just questions or you. I’m not telling you the trainer was good.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I see why there’s a problem training with treats or a lot of other things for that matter. I think what’s important is you find what works for the dog in front of you and use that. If a trainers only answer is treats or they only have one solution, then they are probably not someone worth paying. I believe that the trainer should be able to tell you what they see and what steps they believe you should take.


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## EllZuni (May 31, 2019)

Bearshandler said:


> Why is it you were looking for a trainer? What were your expectations of the trainer? What was your ultimate goal from working with this trainer? These are just questions or you. I’m not telling you the trainer was good.


We were looking for a trainer simply because we were told that is what you do when you get a puppy, you find a trainer, my goals were to solidify obedience and attention, as well as recall, stay, and other essential commands, this is what the program’s graduation requirements, so we thought it would be a good fit . My dog stopped going to that trainer, and she stays like a statue now, and has very good recall in a five-acre park we go to.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

EllZuni said:


> We were looking for a trainer simply because we were told that is what you do when you get a puppy, you find a trainer, my goals were to solidify obedience and attention, as well as recall, stay, and other essential commands, this is what the program’s graduation requirements, so we thought it would be a good fit . She stays like a statue now, and has very good recall in a five-acre park we go to.


You don’t need some 8 week boot camp program that promises some results in a certain time frame. What you need is a trainer to asses you, your dog and your goals and then to offer you guidance on how to get there. Most of the work is going to be done by you anyway. I wouldn’t look for that marketing garbage. I would find someone that has a good track record for results with a training philosophy I believe in and work with them. While I think it’s good to have a trainer available if issues pop up, I think most things can be figured out on your own.


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## Cigar (Feb 19, 2021)

I like the open-mindedness. I run into people who think of themselves as experts, and the advice they give may be valuable, but sometimes is not helpful. I may be old-fashioned, but I think that adopting and supporting a pet is a 2-way relationship. 
One important thing that we as owners know - and which others including experts or trainers cannot know - is our own limitations as owners. It may be money, it may be health, it may be family dynamics - none of us has endless resources and that doesn't mean we love our pet less than others, or that our pet doesn't love & appreciate the relationship that we are able to provide.
I always find that when I come to this site. There seem to be a lot of healthy adults here & I appreciate it esp when I read threads like this which could be snarky in other hands.


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## EllZuni (May 31, 2019)

Bearshandler said:


> You don’t need some 8 week boot camp program that promises some results in a certain time frame. What you need is a trainer to asses you, your dog and your goals and then to offer you guidance on how to get there. Most of the work is going to be done by you anyway. I wouldn’t look for that marketing garbage. I would find someone that has a good track record for results with a training philosophy I believe in and work with them. While I think it’s good to have a trainer available if issues pop up, I think most things can be figured out on your own.


I agree with you completely. At the time, I was just really inexperienced, I knew almost nothing about owning a dog other than what articles I read beforehand.We moved, and then covid hit, so I really had to just work with my dog myself. All of her training ended up being done by me, and I’m happy with how she is, since she is a companion dog and doesn’t do any sports, she really knows everything she needs to now. And to be honest a lot of her recall training stemmed from just my girl not wanting to be that far from me anyways. I also think that that the person who owns their dog knows them a lot better than a trainer. It’s great to work with a trainer, just you can definitely achieve your goals with your dog yourself with the right knowledge and attitude.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

It sounds like you are doing well in spite of a bad trainer experience. I’m sorry you had to deal with that, but we can learn something from every encounter. You learned that you have been a good trainer and handler for your own dog all along.


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## EllZuni (May 31, 2019)

LuvShepherds said:


> It sounds like you are doing well in spite of a bad trainer experience. I’m sorry you had to deal with that, but we can learn something from every encounter. You learned that you have been a good trainer and handler for your own dog all along


Thank you! It definitely was a learning experience, and in the end everything worked out fine, I’d like to warn others too though because there was a period that I was very unsure and nervously due to this trainer.


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## Catrinka (Aug 6, 2020)

Buckelke said:


> I think that no matter what I do Duke will find great joy in dancing and singing.around the house with my shoe. Bad habit, yes. But take it away from him? why?


Having previously seen pics of enormous Duke's sweet, happy face, I'm pretty sure I'd let him dance through the house with any of my shoes. 😂


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

EllZuni said:


> Thank you! It definitely was a learning experience, and in the end everything worked out fine, I’d like to warn others too though because there was a period that I was very unsure and nervously due to this trainer.


People can message you if they want to know. I am in a similar position with my previous trainer. He is a go-to person locally and even had German Shepherds before. I saw that he could not understand my WL dog and kicked him at the training session. He claimed it was an accident and his foot slipped. When I found a private trainer, and then went to a small group class he ran, I mentioned the previous trainer. Every single person in my group class had either been to him or knew about him and none of it was good. So he is both well known and popular with the pet crowd, but also not respected within the dog community. My trainer didn’t say anything negative, then admitted he’s heard nothing but complaints about that other trainer, and his business has benefitted from it.


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