# I think I'm the problem....



## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Most of you know I have been dealing with Zoe's aggression issues since she was 10 weeks old. We thought it was a fear phase, maybe weak nerves, fear aggression- well last night I definitively see it is me and I need help. On my many visits in and out of the hospital my DH had to take of her even though she isn't exactly nice to him. However, he reported he could walk her to the store where she received pets and hugs even from complete strangers, took treats, and never once barked or lunged. He could have guests over even with my kids around and again Zoe allowed people in and out of our home without trying to eat them.....no crate needed. 

Then over Thanksgiving she stayed with our breeder while we went away who had her own family over and Zoe was nothing but sweet, over-attentive and loving with the kids, less kissy with the adults but coming right up to them for pets. Mind you the house was loud and crowded, and no signs of fear or weak nerves. Now we did have a behaviorist come out 3 times to work with her who said Zoe seemed very confident and not fearful at all, but she didn't see me as a weak leader and felt Zoe clearly understood she was not head hauncho- she recommended crating like we had been doing. Zoe doesn't get overthreshold until someone comes inside the house....she is an angel outside though doesn't allow strangers to touch only with me....DH reports she is a social butterfly outside and strangers are all over her.

So I am the problem as I finally saw last night the strangest behavior with my own eyes. We had a play date and as always Zoe was crated. Her breeder's daughter was over to play as well and offered to take her to her house to play with her mom and brother so she wasn't stuck in the crate. A few hours later when I came to swap kids, lol well dog for kid we went in with our guest but I had forgot my breeders daughter's backpack and ran home real fast. Imagine my surprise when I went in to see Zoe licking all over my daughters friend while getting a head scratch. I have heard this but never seen it

I am a very confident person...maybe overconfident, Zoe is obedient to me without question, and I am her person. So why is she trying to kill people in only my presence?? Is she resource guarding me or am I a weak leader whom she doesn't respect??


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Its possible she feels its necessary to behave in such a way because of your health. Some dogs can get tempermental when their people are sick.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

If it makes you feel any better....there are no problems with Jax unless I am home.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Resource guarding and you are the resource?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Well it doesn't make me feel better, lol j/k but it's frustrating as heck to be the reason my dog sucks She's been like this from day one and to walk in while she gently took treats from a child she wants to eat in my house is too much to comprehend for me. She was fawning all over this little girl and when her Dad came to get her she was all over him....as friendly as can be. Had it been my house she would have barked and lunged without any thought. I assume then it's not that she's fearful or weak nerved since you can't turn that on or off so I guess I want to know what I need to do to change our relationship. I am the root of her evil side and I can't figure out how that happened.

Hubby did not want a second dog so her first year here I did ALL the training, feeding, walking, and vetting. Hubby would pet her, talk to her, and throw the occasional treat but she was my dog only. Then I got sick and she had to accept him...ish. They are actually buds now after two years of growling at him and refusing to listen to anything he said, but she doesn't get reactive when he's home alone with her and we have guests over. I say reactive instead of protective and aggressive, but what is she because reactivity is dealt with a lot differently than when working with actual aggression. If this is aggression I plan on this dog being tethered to me with either a pinch collar or e-collar to correct each and every growl, raised hackle, bark, or lunge in any of my guests direction. The behaviorist we dealt with won't use either as a training implement, but we really really really liked this lady


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Well the problem first is if you correct her for growling at people when she's around you, she wont even give a warning anymore. She'll just go for it. As for changing your relationship with her so she learns she doesnt need to behave the way she does... i'm really not sure where you would start.


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## Sevastra (Mar 19, 2012)

Sounds like to me that she feels the need to protect you or keep everyone in line when you are around. My pup was having an issues of being too protective of me when people touched me or walked past me too closely, it would make him growl or do a short lounge at them


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## mebully21 (Nov 18, 2011)

if you cant change the relationship and you see how she is with you not around then you should consider rehoming her. i know it sounds horrible, but sometimes the dog has the wrong owner, or vice versa.. sometimes its in the dogs best interest to seriously think of rehoming, especially in this instance, she is aggressive when with you yet when you are not around she shows NONE of those behaviors... sometimes dogs come into our lives for a short time, for a reason, and they are just not meant to stay.. it has nothing to do with the human, its just that sometimes it doesnt work and the dog is better off relaxed in a new home... it isnt fair to the dog to keep the dog if the dog is stressed out 24/7 in the original environment. you have to do whats best for THE DOG in question... you wouldnt be the first person to rehome a dog due to this reason after everything you have seen.. sometimes the fit just isnt right thats all...


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Zoeys mom said:


> Most of you know I have been dealing with Zoe's aggression issues since she was 10 weeks old. We thought it was a fear phase, maybe weak nerves, fear aggression- well last night I definitively see it is me and I need help. On my many visits in and out of the hospital my DH had to take of her even though she isn't exactly nice to him. However, he reported he could walk her to the store where she received pets and hugs even from complete strangers, took treats, and never once barked or lunged.


You didn't say what you were in and out of the hospital for. Could she be protective of you because she senses that you are ill?


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Just a wild guess. You say you are confident and you probably are.

Confidence doesn't always translate into relaxed and calm. If you are tense or nervous inside they will pick up on it.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

I have Crohn's and have had a few flares over the last year, but she was like this long before that. As to rehoming her....never I was there the day Zoe was born, and everyday day until she came home to me at 10 weeks. I am her breeders friend, best friend at that we grew up together and live 10 ft. from each other. Zoe was the pup that chose me...I don't like female dogs- males are my preference; but she just latched onto me. So instead of the male I had wanted she came home with me and has been my shadow ever since. She is also my autistic son's rock and important in his day to day functioning. Zoe get's him through his tantrums, sleeps with him, and let's the whole house know the minute his feet hit the stairs in the middle of the night without any formal training. This taught my son to play in the hall instead of trying to wander outside- so she is pretty much a keeper

I also believe Zoe is that dog that will bond with any one owner and with time exhibit the behavior I see now. Basically while I am her problem a new home and eventual trusted new owner wouldn't be the solution- she'd just rebond and become reactive once again. 

Jax08- you said jax is only a butthead around you so how do you manage him with company?? Zoe loves all dogs, cats, and birds...well birds to accidental death but is not in any way aggressive with other animals- she is actually submissive except she is queen of the dogs here at home. Only once has she ever seriously got into it with another dog and it was her crazy sister who turns out is DA with only her littermates, and attacked Zoe out of the blue.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Jack's Dad said:


> Just a wild guess. You say you are confident and you probably are.
> 
> Confidence doesn't always translate into relaxed and calm. If you are tense or nervous inside they will pick up on it.


I'm actually super laid back...I just don't take any crud on my terf I am not nervous when introducing her to new people I just will not introduce her to kids, and hand select these people carefully. She loves my brother in-law now so it is possible for her to accept those who come over frequently. She is also good with my friend Karen who is a long time dog lover and has a few of her own. She also loves her breeders and their four children, my neighbor Gabby and her pup Roxie the Rockstar, and a handful of other people who are now familiar to her. 

I don't think she is hopeless I just need a way to express my distaste for her protective behavior and all the positive reinforcement in the world hasn't been too effective


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Zoeys mom said:


> Jax08- you said jax is only a butthead around you so how do you manage him with company?? Zoe loves all dogs, cats, and birds...well birds to accidental death but is not in any way aggressive with other animals- she is actually submissive except she is queen of the dogs here at home.


Jax isn't aggressive towards people, only dogs. She's only reactive towards Sierra when I'm home. I'm curious to see if she's only reactive to dogs in general when I'm around.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

I hope this makes sense so here goes, Have you been directing her away from other dogs and people when she's with you, I dont' mean obviously pulling her way and telling her no. Just redirecting her when other people come up not realizing it.
I had a dog that was very dog aggressive, and when I started taking Frank to classes a friend of mine said to me "do you realize that you direct Frank away from other dogs when they come near, he's learning that other dogs are a NO NO when he's with you". I didn't realize I was even doing it, it was a guarding behavior I had learned with my first dog and I just did it without realizing it. It had nothing to do with confidence or me being the leader, but it was something I was teaching Frank without realizing it.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

She's great with dogs it's people inside my house so I'm not leading her anywhere really, lol.


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Zoeys mom

What do you actually do when people Zoey is not familar with and friendly to arrive?

Perhaps if you describe what you do, and what Zoey does, something may click with someone as to what the problem could be? 

Perhaps you could ask your DH the same questions.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Franksmom said:


> I hope this makes sense so here goes, Have you been directing her away from other dogs and people when she's with you, I dont' mean obviously pulling her way and telling her no. Just redirecting her when other people come up not realizing it.
> I had a dog that was very dog aggressive, and when I started taking Frank to classes a friend of mine said to me "do you realize that you direct Frank away from other dogs when they come near, he's learning that other dogs are a NO NO when he's with you". I didn't realize I was even doing it, it was a guarding behavior I had learned with my first dog and I just did it without realizing it. It had nothing to do with confidence or me being the leader, but it was something I was teaching Frank without realizing it.


I do this. I redirect whenever there's another dog around. What else can I do if my dog is a bit standoffish and I am anxious/nervous. 

But to keep this about Zoey's mom. I am glad you want to work on this problem with your pup. No real advice. Just praise and complements for your patience and insight.


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## stolibaby (Mar 6, 2011)

My dog is very similar in the behavioral aspect as Zoe but I have found a few things that really help us out and keep him from being a butthead and he is a lot more behaved now. When people come in the house I tell them flat out it is "his" house so they have to let him sniff them and give him time to figure them out...also they cannot stand in front of the door as it wigs him out for some reason but if they come in and sit on the couch or move away from the door he tends to sniff them and then either walk away or grab a toy because he thinks he can teach them how to play lol. When I am home Stoli will bark at anyone who comes in or to the door...my old roommates however told me when I am gone he couldn't care less and is usually sleeping in my room so I definately know he's more on edge while I am there. In the yard he will bark at the neighbors dog if I am home yet again my roommate was doing yardwork and Stoli was just out there hanging out and couldn't care less since I wasn't there. I don't quite get it; but again I am the only one who works with him; trains him feeds him etc so I figure it's some of a resource guarding issue. He also warms up to people after a bit like my parents he absolutely loves them although he will still bark and growl when they first walk in. We are continuing to work on him focusing more on me and not freaking out usually by grabbing his ball or a toy and making him come sit and redirecting his behavior. Not giing to lie it's an ongoing thing but maybe something like this would work for you?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Before our crate rule which is when a stranger enters before they even knock she is in the crate and our kitchen is sealed from them However, before this we would make both dogs sit an wait so they didn't trounce our guests, and once the guest got in, got their coat off, and settled in they get the release command to go sniff and get pets. On the command of release Zoe will rush them, sniff, hackle up , and viciously bark not allowing them to move. If I correct her and the guest sits down she is fine, but watchful and if they get up....- she rushes them sniffs, hackles, and barks. My guests can't move freely in my home


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Have you asked your OH if he did anything different to you, when you were in hospital ?

Btw does Zoey respond well to treats?

Sue


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Zoey's Mom - have you tried (you) making him work to earn a pat/head scratch/greeting? Showing Zoey that you are in control of the situation and he doesn't need to be?

Say you have a guest come in the house and Zoey is waiting in his kennel. He let him out, take him to your guest (by leash if that helps so he doesn't rush over) and then (you) put him in a down/stay before the guest can greet him? 

If he is only doing that around you, try changing up they situation (safely) and see if that changes his reaction.


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## Good_Karma (Jun 28, 2009)

I don't have any helpful advice, but I experience the same thing with Niko. When I take him for walks in town, he will tend to bark at anyone who gets close to us. When my husband takes Niko to town for a walk, he will let strangers PET HIM ON THE HEAD, lol! Completely unheard of in my experience with Niko. I have heard a theory from some forum members that dogs can be somewhat sexist in that, regardless of your leadership style, dogs will tend to be more reactive/protective around the female handler. Just a theory, but it makes sense to me based on my experience.


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Zoe loves treats...just not from strangers, lol. My DH doesn't do much different, but Zoe isn't his dog in her eyes. She won't listen to him if I'm home only when I'm gone, but he kept my schedule basically the same while I was sick


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi Zoeys mom

Jake had a problem with fear of people, following an unfortunate accident, and we built his confidence by doing the following: 

If possible place Zoey's crate where she can see visitors come in, but where they do not need to approach her or even walk passed her in order to enter the lounge? Perhaps in a corner maybe. 

When visitors arrive, open the door to the crate for Zoey to go in. Do not force her, as that will make her anxious. Throw a treat in for her or a filled kong or a chew toy, and close the door. 

As you let your guests in, give them some treats for Zoey, but tell them *not *to give them to her. Explain she is nervous and you're trying to build her confidence.

Tell your guests, in no uncertain terms, not to look at Zoey or attempt to approach her. Tell them to behave as if there is no dog in the house at all. Get all your guests settled in and relaxed. Under no circumstances must they make eye contact with Zoey, as this can come over as aggression to a dog. 

If Zoey looks relaxed open the door to the crate, but don't call her out - let her decide to come out on her own accord. Don't forget - insist your guests don't look at her - just ignore her completely. 

Unfortunately some people really don't want to listen - because "all dogs love them" :wub:. You need to insist they do as you ask, because you need to sort this for both you and Zoey. 

If Zoey decides to come out of her crate, let her wander around in her own time. The guests still need to ignore her. 

You can ask the guests (one at a time) to casually toss a treat on the floor for Zoey. Tell them to toss the treats well away from them - you don't want Zoey tempted to go closer to the guests than she's ready to. They must still ignore her though - no eye contact. 

If Zoey starts to eat the treats, you can slowly let the guests toss them closer to themselves. You should find that Zoey starts to be more and more comfortable with the guests. Eventually they will be able to place a treat on their legs - and even let Zoey take one from their hands. 

But you must take it slowly. Let Zoey go at her own pace.

Zoey is anxious, and that's why she growls - she's letting you know, and wants you to protect her. She need to discover for herself that guests are ok and they are not going to hurt her - far from it - they give her loads of goodies. 

If any of your guests want to get up, it's advisable for you to call Zoey out of the room with you, or get her back in her crate. Take it slowly - she'll soon get used to guests walking around the place. 



> If this is aggression I plan on this dog being tethered to me with either a pinch collar or e-collar to correct each and every growl, raised hackle, bark, or lunge in any of my guests direction. The behaviorist we dealt with won't use either as a training implement, but we really really really liked this lady


I'm sure you don't really mean this..... but under no circumstances do it. 
Put yourself in Zoey's shoes. Guests arrive, she feels nervous, she growls to tell them to go away..... and whoa, you either jerk her collar or shock her. Bearing in mind you know why you're doing it - and when - Zoey won't know why or when - or even what is causing the pain. If she is looking at the guests - she will think they have somehow caused it. How do you think she will feel about these guests? Happy to see them - I don't think so. It will just make the bad situation a whole lot worse. 

Zoey can't talk to you in your language - she can only speak in her own. A growl is saying - please go away. 

This is a good site for understanding dog's body language. 

Turid Rugaas - Calming Signals Community

Good Luck

Sue


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

We have her crate in the kitchen where she can see the front door and the living room where we sit. She loves her crate and goes willingly on her own so no tricking needed. With the people I trust to be around her and follow directions once they are settled and seated we hand them each treat bags, but they can only give a treat if SHE approaches nicely for one- no pulling out treats for growling, lol. Her normal is to sniff it and walk away, or sniff it, grab it, and spit it out on the floor. As long as these people do not want to get up, use the bathroom, or move Zoe tolerates them on the couch....it's when they move.

So our guests have to say hey I need to use the bathroom in which she is recrated until they are back and seated. The thing is we don't have a lot of adult company it's mostly kids who do not listen so honestly it is about once a month I get to bring her around strangers. On our walks she isn't reactive unless someone actually tries to touch her, but they can walk by us without incident 100% of the time so she gets whiffs of strange people twice a day. I need more local dog inclined friends, lol

My comment about a collar correction was actually serious. People don't make her nervous- she's just a jerk. Her go away isn't go away you scare me- it's go away that's MY owner and this is MY house...but it isn't We practice NILIF in our home with all animals, but somehow she is still confused. The thing that gets me is I can put her in a stay in the middle of the field behind my house where people, other dogs, and kids are walking, running, and screaming all around her. I can walk away and hide behind a tree and that dog does not bark, pant, hackle up, growl, look away, or show any reaction to the chaos. If it were nerves.....she would


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

Has your trainer witnessed her behaviour ?


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## Zoeys mom (Jan 23, 2010)

Yes, she has and with much work Zoe is better, but not trustworthy


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

and you're trying to fix this with PR?

when a puppy is being a jerk, the mom corrects the puppy for being a jerk.


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

Bismarck said:


> and you're trying to fix this with PR?
> 
> when a puppy is being a jerk, the mom corrects the puppy for being a jerk.


What type of correction are you suggesting?

Alpha Roll?
Pinning?
Biting the dog?
Dropping on all 4 and growling at the dog?
Static Correction?
Collar Correction?


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

sometimes PR works... sometimes it doesn't.

biting the dog...lmao yeah use that one


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

Bismarck said:


> sometimes PR works... sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> biting the dog...lmao yeah use that one


That was a joke. How about helping her and suggesting soemthing instead of being vague with your posts.


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## Bismarck (Oct 10, 2009)

> I also believe Zoe is that dog that will bond with any one owner and with time exhibit the behavior I see now.


how can you say this, when the dog was normal with your husband, breeder, breeders daughter etc...

imo, the dog is resource guarding you.

the dog bonded to you, and sees you as a resource that she is afraid of losing.
as far as the comment made that if you correct a growl/lunge, she'll learn to make no warning sounds at all... that's very possible, of course it's also possible the dog will learn that mom doesn't need you to guard her.

does the dog know "leave it"? how well does the dog know it? (only reason i ask is what does the dog do if it goes batsh*t and gets the leave it command?)
what happens when you bring a person in your home? does she stare at them? does she pay "extra" attention to them?
have you tried muzzling her and introducing her to people?

the dog may very well understand the relationship between you and the dog, but it also understands that it doesn't want anyone near you, and is trying to keep people from taking you.
can PR fix this issue? possibly.. really depends on the dogs temperment and the dogs "will" to protect the resource (IMO).

I like PR training, it's great for showing the dog what you want it to do. however when there are no repercussions for unwanted behavior...

if you can't remove the resource, remove the dog.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Can I join the "I am being resource-guarded, what do I do? club? 

I have been thinking about how best to address this because I know I have created an issue. After much pondering, reading, researching, observing, my best course of action will probably be to start from scratch. Renji will try to get in the way or elicit attention when my bf and I are cuddling or talking to each other. If he starts being a pest, he gets put in a down. If he breaks, he gets reprimanded for breaking the command as opposed to eliciting attention. This is clearer communication. I am also stepping up obedience in other areas where I have realized I've been slacking. It is humbling to realize you know so much and yet KNOW SO LITTLE. I'm done sulking in the corner with my dunce hat, time to fix.

Outside on walks, I'm really not sure what to do. I know that if we're out biking and we pass by, Renji looks but does not react. This is markedly different than walks. I realize that my redirections and instructions start earlier than on walks, I do stay calmer on the bike, I am clearer and firmer, and in general a much better leader on the bike than on foot. Why? Who knows, I have to ask Freud that one. But I have to channel my inner biker when I'm on foot with the dog. I'm also going to do Kathy Sdao's protocol of loading the dog up with treats if we're within sight of people or dogs. He can't be guarding me if he's busy chomping down on free snacks getting shoved in his face. I also have to learn to LEAVE while a meeting is GOOD as opposed to leaving when a good meeting goes sour. I have to read my dog and be better at allowing myself to control interactions rather than other people.

I have started to work on out-of-sight downs. I put Renji in a down and then leave, then come back and reward with a goodie and then leave again. I'm going to do this every day in the house. He needs to learn that I can be around and he does not need to follow me to protect me. It is a good way of practicing self control. I am also resolving to use tug of war more as a jackpot reward.

I'll follow up if it works or if I have furthered the trainwreck.


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## matthewm11 (Oct 18, 2011)

When I was a kid I could be a little rude or disrespectful with my parents but was very polite to all other adults. Its the familiarity and dynamics of the relationship- we are more comfortable around our parents so more apt to act out or speak our mind. My dog is like that with me sometimes, a very typical teenager who some days is affectionate, loving and attached to my hip but I swear some days she sees me as just the mean man holding the leash who never lets her have fun like chasing squirrels. She gets very frustrated with me and will act rudely, like biting the leash or barking at me, yet she is a 
complete sweetheart to everyone else, a total Eddy Haskell. I think dogs are like people in that they reserve both their love and frustrations to those closest to them


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