# For or Against: Raw Meat Feeding



## GSD Fan

Do you believe in feeding your dog or dogs raw meat? 

I'm in the middle, I could go either way.

I understand that dogs are really just domesticated wolves, but does that really mean they should be fed like wolves?


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## Jax08

I feed my dogs a RAW diet. Feeding dogs RAW really has little to do with domesticated dogs descending from wolves. IMO, it's about feeding an unprocessed, species appropriate diet.


I also feed my cat a RAW diet. Do you know that cat's are obligate carnivores? They can NOT survive without eating meat because of their body does not produce the necessary components to survive so they have to get it from meat. Primarily taurine.

Do you know that most cat food is primarily made up of corn and by-product meal? So an animal that can not survive without meat is being fed corn and ground up, dehydrated chicken feet...doesn't make alot of sense, does it?

The animal foods of today are made of the cheapest ingredients and then supplemented with the necessary vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. Why buy crap when I can buy the real thing for 1/2 the price? That's not including the grain free foods. That's a whole different topic.


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## Liesje

For.

I don't raw feed myself because of cost and space but I'm all for it.


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## DanielleOttoMom

I agree with Jax... RAW is best for you dog. Even though I feed my dog a cup of TOTW in the AM and RAW in the eveing just so he gets every thing he needs.


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## mssandslinger

im for it, i also dont feed my dogs that, im actually scared a little because i have never done it and i dont want to make them sick, but i would like to eventually


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## onyx'girl

I'm for raw feeding, and have been feeding raw for almost 4 yrs. Never have had a problem with the diet, I only see the benefits!


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## Syaoransbear

Definitely for it. I used to feed it, but the horrible farts were too much >_<.


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## Lilie

I feed both, and I since I have, I've noticed that Hondo (who is normally a picky eater) eats his kibble like he is starving. I've had to back off the amount of kibble because he is packing on the pounds. And I enjoy the look on Hondo's face when he is eating it. He loves it!


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## Castlemaid

For.

Have been feeding raw for a few years now. Switched to all raw, and a medical issue that one of my dogs had that was not responding to medication went away.


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## LaRen616

I am not against RAW, I think that it is great for dogs and I love that people feed it to them. I am just not smart enough to figure all of the stuff out, balancing the ingredients and what not so I feed both of my dogs TOTW.


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## Chris Wild

100% for, but only provided the owner puts the effort into ensuring a correct and balanced raw diet with plenty of variety. If someone doesn't have the time, energy or inclination to research well and feed appropriately, a pre-made raw or commercial food is the way to go. A good raw diet is IMO the best way of feeding. A bad raw diet could be worse than Ol' Roy.


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## bianca

100% for! I have been feeding my girl RAW for approx 6 weeks now and apart from the fact that she became a little porker (my fault and have adjusted) I will never go back! She used to be sick all the time with various issues but touch wood....nothing since the change and she LOVES mealtimes now


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## mjbgsd

Certainly for as I feed raw.


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## sagelfn

Liesje said:


> For.
> 
> I don't raw feed myself because of cost and space but I'm all for it.


Ditto, I'm feeding Orijen until I can make the switch to raw. I do give raw bones.


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## KZoppa

i'm a kibble owner. The cost for RAW and researching and attempting to correctly balance is a lot more than i honestly care to deal with between diaper changes and figuring out the human family meals. Plus we lack the space for RAW for the dogs. personal choice. props for those who feed and vote for it though.


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## Jessiewessie99

I am for it. I don't feed my dogs it, but will in the future. I also like to mix it up.


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## Honeybee1999

I voted for in the middle. I feed commercial food because I feel it is convenient, and having small children I am all for anything that makes my life more convenient. Plus it is less expensive than feeding raw. 

I did feed raw for a time during all of those pet food recalls in 2007 because I didn't trust any pet food companies. But it wasn't something I could sustain long term.


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## Shepherdmom02

I'm all for it. Once I learned that kibe and vaccines are the two main causes of canine cancer I switched!


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## elisabeth_00117

All of my animals are fed raw the moment they step foot in my home.

My 13.5 year old female GSD was raw fed, my 18 month old male GSD is as well and the same goes for my three cats.


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## Konotashi

For, all the way. 

I've never heard the term used on here, but in the ferret world, it's often referred to as BARF, which stands for either "bones and raw food," or more appropriately, "Biologically Appropriate Raw Food." 

Ozzy is fed kibble, (commercial) raw, and canned. His favorite meal, BY FAR, is raw. My ferret is fed ONLY raw and he's by far the healthiest ferret I've ever met. As someone mentioned cats being obligate carnivores, so are ferrets. Can't digest fruits or veggies and they can cause intestinal blockages.


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## Deuce

I'm OK with it. We add some in to Deuce's dinner at night with his dry food. I'm not someone who thinks you should only do a raw diet but I don't have a problem adding SOME in.


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## jakeandrenee

I am for it, I feed somewhere in the middle. I would say 50% of the time he eats RAW and the half grain free kibble. I would love to male the switch completely over but lack of knowledge has deterred me.


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## AgileGSD

LaRen616 said:


> I am not against RAW, I think that it is great for dogs and I love that people feed it to them. I am just not smart enough to figure all of the stuff out, balancing the ingredients and what not so I feed both of my dogs TOTW.


 Really, dog food companies love when owners buy into the idea that average people are too dumb to feed their dogs. It's not true though, raw feeding is really pretty easy. Getting started is the hardest part but once you're doing it, you see how simple it is.

If you are concerned about balance, feeding the same processed food every day is actually more likely to create an imbalance of certain things than a diet containing variety. It took dog food companies until the 90s to realize that dogs need taurine in their food and by feeding a diet that lacked taurine day in and day out, dogs developed heart problems. Had there been more variety in those dog's diets, it would have balanced out the issue with the kibble. Since dogs foods are trying to nutritionally recreate what dogs naturally need in their diet there is always a risk of too much or too little of some nutrients creating an imbalance over time because most people choose a brand and stick with it (dog food companies love this too). 

I'm not telling you to feed raw food but if you truly feel that the only reason you don't is because you are too dumb to do it, you're not giving yourself enough credit. 

The base of my dog's diet is chicken backs because they are cheap, easy to find and all of my dogs do well on chicken. From there, I will use other meats either with or without bone usually turkey, beef or pork for variety depending on what is a good price when I go grocery shopping. Sometimes I buy them green tripe, smelts or canned salmon. They also get whole eggs 1-3 times a week. I save any veggie leftovers from when we cook such as carrot tops, broccoli stems, lettuce parts, etc and occasionally buy discounted produce (it's ok to use veggies or fruit that's a bit overripe). About once or twice a month I put the veggies into a blender and puree them then add organic apple cider vinegar, garlic, extra virgin olive oil, yogurt and a supplement, either a general one such as Springtime's Longevity or norwegian kelp. Sometimes I skip the supplement stuff though and just do veggies and yogurt. Mix it all up and freeze it. I have been freezing it in ice cube trays and when I give veggies I just give a couple cubes. They sometimes go quite a while without veggies and sometimes they get them nearly every day. Sometimes they get only chicken backs for a week or two, other than training treats. 

For treats I try to keep it healthy, as when you're doing a lot of training the treats make up a portion of your dog's diet too. I use dried meat jerky of a variety of proteins often with some high quality kibble in the same bag (right now it's Nature's Variety Rabbit). I also cook organ meats for training and dry them out (the broth can be used in veggie mixes!). The dogs get to eat any healthy cooked leftovers we have too. That's pretty much it. Not as easy as scooping food from a bag but nothing terribly tricky or complicated either.


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## SARAHSMITH

Why must the food be raw? Is it because they need to eat the chicken bones and can only eat that raw? Why not cooked food without the spices?


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## kiwilrdg

I do worry about the quality of some meat. I use dried food for the main diets of all my dogs.

If I will eat it raw I will also use it as a treat for the dogs.


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## CaseysGSD

As much as I would love to I don't really for safe doing it with a 3 year old and 5 year old who love helping feed the puppy.


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## Konotashi

SARAHSMITH said:


> Why must the food be raw? Is it because they need to eat the chicken bones and can only eat that raw? Why not cooked food without the spices?


It doesn't 'have' to be raw, but it's better if it is, typically. Cooking the meat will change the nutritional value of the food, and it's not known by how much. So by feeding it raw, you know what you're dog's getting rather than changing everything up just by cooking it.


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## lhczth

I have fed raw for more than 11 years so I guess you can figure out my answer.


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## mssandslinger

does anyone know of a good website that can explain how to make a raw meal? Like can i make a weeks worth at once? or every meal time do i have to make it? i would love to switch over but it scares me, i dont want to hurt my dogs from me being ill informed.


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## GSDElsa

Konotashi said:


> It doesn't 'have' to be raw, but it's better if it is, typically. Cooking the meat will change the nutritional value of the food, and it's not known by how much. So by feeding it raw, you know what you're dog's getting rather than changing everything up just by cooking it.


 
Well, not only that but cooked bones splinter and are VERY dangerous.


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## AgileGSD

kiwilrdg said:


> I do worry about the quality of some meat. I use dried food for the main diets of all my dogs.
> 
> If I will eat it raw I will also use it as a treat for the dogs.


 I always have to wonder when people say they feed kibble instead of raw because of the quality of the meat. Unless the kibble you're feeding guarantees that all of their products are 100% human grade, the ingredients in your dog's food are not fit for human consumption. This means they are a much lower quality than anything you would buy at your grocery store (meat not approved for human use can not be purchased without a rendering license). And your dog's kibble is probably not safe for you to eat either...

I'm not suggesting you feed raw, as it obviously doesn't matter to me what your dogs eat. I am suggesting that if you truly believe that your dogs are getting higher quality food with kibble than with a home prepared diet made of human grade food, you probably need to give that subject more thought.



CaseysGSD said:


> As much as I would love to I don't really for safe doing it with a 3 year old and 5 year old who love helping feed the puppy.


"Pet food companies and veterinarians warn pet owners against feeding their modified house wolves and cats a raw diet, saying “raw meat” is rife with salmonella that the risk of the bacteria being transferred to humans from canine saliva and fecal matter is high.
“_If salmonella really is a problem, then we should be just as concerned with processed pet food. Salmonella has been found in commercial pet foods, something the public never learns._” – Dr Donald Strombeck, PhD, DVM, Professor Emeritus"

"“_36% of (_*ALL*_) healthy dogs, _*regardless of diet*_, have s__almonella__ in their digestive tract”_ – (2000) Small Animal Clinical Nutrition.
With this fact in mind it is important to remember that when discussing the risk of salmonella infection from dogs or cats, regardless of diet (kibble or raw meaty bones), practicing good hygiene is key in reducing the risk of infection." 



"Common sense examples of good hygiene practices when handling dog food; 

Store raw food in the freezer and thaw in the refrigerator
Store kibble in a sealed container out of reach of children
Don’t allow children to handle your dog’s food, if they do, make sure they wash their hands after
Properly wash hands, all bowls, utensils and contact surfaces after handling your dog’s food (kibble or raw)
Limit time raw food is held at room temperature during feeding to less than 2 hours and dispose of food left out for periods longer than this
Pick up your dog’s poop and always wash your hands with soap and warm water afterwards"
http://doggybytes.ca/kibble-side-salmonella/5692/


"CHICAGO — Fido's food may be making kids sick, a government report warns, detailing the first known salmonella outbreak in humans, mostly young children, linked to pet food.
The outbreak sickened 79 people in 21 mostly eastern states, between 2006 and 2008. Almost half of the victims were children aged 2 and younger.
Dry pet foods are an under-recognized source of salmonella infections in humans, and it's likely other illnesses since then were unknowingly caused by tainted pet food, said Casey Barton Behravesh, the report's lead author and a researcher at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/09/dog-food-could-be-making_n_675408.html
 



GSDElsa said:


> Well, not only that but cooked bones splinter and are VERY dangerous.


 Actually it depends on how they are cooked. Boiled bones tend to be softer than raw bones and IMO are pretty safe. However, friend or baked bones become more brittle. 



mssandslinger said:


> does anyone know of a good website that can explain how to make a raw meal? Like can i make a weeks worth at once? or every meal time do i have to make it? i would love to switch over but it scares me, i dont want to hurt my dogs from me being ill informed.


 I don't totally agree with everything in this but it gives you a basic outline:
http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/User_Friendly_Diet.pdf

They suggest more supplementation than I could ever do but they are a company that makes/sells supplements  I never use frozen veggies. I disagree about their opinion on feeding poultry leg bones. IME knuckle bones are bad for some dog's teeth (if you have a strong chewer or a dog with more easily worn teeth, avoid knuckle bones). If you are afraid to feed bones though, they sell a product intended to be used for a calcium source with raw meat and tell you how much to give. They have some good general supplements too, if you feel more comfortable adding those.


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## mssandslinger

thank you!!


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## CaseysGSD

"Pet food companies and veterinarians warn pet owners against feeding their modified house wolves and cats a raw diet, saying “raw meat” is rife with salmonella that the risk of the bacteria being transferred to humans from canine saliva and fecal matter is high.
“_If salmonella really is a problem, then we should be just as concerned with processed pet food. Salmonella has been found in commercial pet foods, something the public never learns._” – Dr Donald Strombeck, PhD, DVM, Professor Emeritus"


I am very good with our dry food as well, we wash hands after feeding, I wash food and water bowls after every meal. I really do think raw is better but for me I don't even like touching raw chicken for our dinner, you should see me cleaning before the meal is even finished cooking! So I couldn't imagine having to deal with it twice a day everyday.

Do you know anything about dehydrated raw dog foods (I found one called Sojos)? I have been looking into it as an option but have not really heard many people talking about it as well as don't get any responces when I post on it.....


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## Ruthie

Chris Wild said:


> 100% for, but only provided the owner puts the effort into ensuring a correct and balanced raw diet with plenty of variety. If someone doesn't have the time, energy or inclination to research well and feed appropriately, a pre-made raw or commercial food is the way to go. A good raw diet is IMO the best way of feeding. A bad raw diet could be worse than Ol' Roy.


 
This is exaclty why I don't feed raw. I haven't had the time or inclination to research it yet. It wasn't an option for so long because Moose refused to eat raw meat.

I think it is great for people who can manage it and I will probably make the switch at some point now that he is gone. We will have to get a freezer first.


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## AgileGSD

CaseysGSD said:


> I am very good with our dry food as well, we wash hands after feeding, I wash food and water bowls after every meal. I really do think raw is better but for me I don't even like touching raw chicken for our dinner, you should see me cleaning before the meal is even finished cooking! So I couldn't imagine having to deal with it twice a day everyday.


 I only feed once a day and generally don't use bowls for the food. Many eat outdoors or they eat in their crates and I wipe the tray out with a clorox Clean Up. I used to use newspaper for a very messy eater I had - just roll the paper up and throw it away. A friend of mine who also dislikes handling raw meat of any kind feeds her dogs their chicken backs frozen, which makes a lot less clean up. There is also the option of feeding cooked, you could actually follow the same diet outlined in the guide I posted and just cook the meat. 



CaseysGSD said:


> Do you know anything about dehydrated raw dog foods (I found one called Sojos)? I have been looking into it as an option but have not really heard many people talking about it as well as don't get any responces when I post on it.....


 I really don't know much about them - don't know many people who have used them or use them regularly (some raw feeders use them for travel). Those foods are pricey and if you are considering that as an option, Nature's Variety Raw is worth looking into as well. They pasteurize their raw food mixes as well as taking other precautions, such as batch testing for salmonella to ensure th foods are free of bacterial and pathological contamination. This is definitely a more processed version of the raw diet and I don't feel it is as good as feeding fresh, locally bought human grade food. However, it's a good option for those who want to feed raw food but worry about bacteria. It also comes in frozen medallions, which make feeding it easy and mess free. This diet is also becoming more and more widely available in stores.
Nature's Variety: Learn about Raw: Raw Diet Questions & Answers | Nature's Variety


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## kiwilrdg

When I posted 



> I do worry about the quality of some meat.


I was really only referring to if the meat should be eaten raw. I am sure they put some pretty bad stuff into kibbles. I like scrapple and souse so I guess I will eat just about anything that is cooked.


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## AgileGSD

kiwilrdg said:


> When I posted
> 
> 
> I was really only referring to if the meat should be eaten raw. I am sure they put some pretty bad stuff into kibbles. I like scrapple and souse so I guess I will eat just about anything that is cooked.


 Did you know about the concern of things such as salmonella with kibble and dog treats?


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## goatdude

Been feeding a mix of 70% raw (RMB, MM, OM) and 30% grain-free kibble with great success. I am wondering about substituting cooked veggies and a little more meat for the kibble?


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## vicky2200

I dont know enough about it to reccommend that YOU should or shouldnt give YOUR dog raw meat. However, personally, it just grosses me out. Generally I try to only feed my dogs things I would eat, therefore the meat should be cooked. However raw vegetables and safe fruit is fine. I know Im weird about it, but it just bothers me.


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## Zoeys mom

My dogs get kibble twice a day, but often I will feed off raw meat we stupidly thawed and didn't cook for one reason or the other before it spoils. They also get knuckle bones just for their teeth once a month and raw ground beef in place of wet food just to mix things up. I haven't done the research to claim one is definitely better than the other though there is a multitude of research that shows before kibble home cooked meals produced healthier dogs with lower cancer rates, lower rates of obesity, and longer life spans. Since cooking definitely kills off a lot of important nutrients I can only say common sense tells me raw is probably better than kibble, but DH would NEVER do for it,lol


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## selzer

I voted for it, but I feed mostly kibble, and supplement some of the time with raw meats. 

I think that dogs get a lot more nutrients from uncooked meats.


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## tintallie

I feed Miya a raw diet but have also fed kibble in the past. Miya always gets complements about her pearly white teeth because she eats her share of chicken quarters (back and organs attached), bison and elk bones, eggs, yogurt, salmon oil, some times sardines, etc. Too much organ meat throws her off balance so feeding her a quarter carcass of chicken is nice because it contains the meat, bone and organ all in one  Luckily, we can go to the Asian supermarket and get stuff by the case.


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## Catu

Liesje said:


> For.
> 
> I don't raw feed myself because of cost and space but I'm all for it.


Same here.

But I don't like when people start to talk about feeding or training methods in terms of "believing" like it were a religion.


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