# age GSD calm down and listen better?



## Bernadette

Is there a round about age when GSD start to calm down and relax ? I have noticed my dog slowly getting better with things but he still wants to protect and BARK at people.He just turned a year old last month.I shush him and tap him on the neck all the time but it does not faze him.(Like Cesar Millan says to do)He loves to ride.I drop my daughter off at school,soccer practice etc. and he will bark at the people walking by. Should he be past this at his age or will it come in time? I have read that they say GSD are in their puppy stage till about 2-3 years old. Would you agree with that? I just don't want to push him to must and I don't want him to be behind either. He sits, comes,stays,(most of the time)swims,lays down and is now learning Pull.When he gets excited /or people come he is reluctant to listen as much and I don't know if that is a age thing.How do I get him to stop barking at people and is it to early for him to realize it is not an immediate threat?


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## BJDimock

I find that Fidelco perfers to leave Fosters in our care untill they are around 1 1/2 years old. They don't even want to attempt training guide dogs until they are about this age. Please be careful using Ceasar techniques. I'm not saying that all of his techniques are bad, but really bad cases make really good TV. Try positive reinforcement first! Have really great treats with you at all times, and when he barks, distract him with the treat. Make him do something he knows how to do, and then reward him as if he just created the world. It will get better, but he won't grow out of it unless you help him learn a different response. Good luck! Feel free to ask more questions


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## onyx'girl

I think the maturity level depends on the line. Do you have him in any obedience classes? Redirect him to you when he is barking, if it is in the car use a command "Quiet" and be stern. When he is quiet, give him high value treats, along with praise.
He needs to know that you and your family are the ones in control and he doesn't have to alert you to everyone he sees.
I am still working on this with my rescue Kacie who is now 3. She barks when my 16 yr old son comes down the stairs. We have had her over a yr and she still barks at him, and DH sometimes when he comes inside...
I am never home during the day, but ran home today for a minute, and UPS guy was dropping off stuff for my DH's business(daily occurance). The dogs were barking and hitting the door as I am sure they do everytime he delivers. I am now putting the pieces together as why Onyx is reactive to men in hats and sunglasses! Poor UPS guy, probably hates the dogs...I told DH to leave him a note to put the deliveries on the side of his shop, not on the bench near the breezeway door.


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## Bernadette

He is doing very well.I have a in home daycare and he is great with the children and their parents. He loves to run and play with them. He sits and lays down during lunch . He is coming along very nicely I think.The barking is the worst things he does (except for one new thing that happened the other day) I tell him(sometimes) to lay down in the van and that works for a few minute. I will just have to be more consistent(I think that is my fault). Ok ,here goes and I can hear it already.... I had a father come to pick up a child the other day and when he came in Vader (my dog) started barking then growling at him.I said NO,took him by the collar and told him to be nice. He stopped growling for a second.I told him to sniff(that's how we introduce him to new people)he sniffed for about 3 seconds and started growling and attempted to pull closer to him as I pulled him back. I then put him in my bedroom until the father left. He has not done this before(except to a stray dog in our yard). This father has never in a year come into my house.The father always stands outside at the bottom of the steps and the child rings the bell and I let him in.Also we(me and this father ) have had exchanged words before so we do not like each other and have as little contact with each other as possible. I am torn about my dogs behavior. On one hand I think he did his job,he did not know this man,he was protecting me and the other 5 children behind me, and I think he might of sensed a bad feeling from the father . It maybe he needs to be socialized with more different people, something I have not thought about till just now.He is socialize with a lot of people but it is the same people since he was a pup.The people at church,the daycare kids and their family and my friends and relatives.. I guess I should have him meet and greet a stranger often. ok But then I think no,I told him No,and he should have listened.


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## onyx'girl

Have the father give him a really tasty treat and not make any eye contact, just treat and ignore your boy.
A friend of mine had a daycare, and one guy that her GSD did not like she later found out was having an affair! Funny that sometimes our dogs can sense what we can't...
maybe your pup saw this guy, and only from afar, made him leary when the father finally was within touching distance. 
My friends dog will go on "patrol" whenever anyone says "stranger danger" she never taught her this and it is funny to see Zoey's reaction when you say this. She is from Am showlines, btw. Zoey's owner is now married to my Church's pastor, so she is socialized that same way, church, kids, but she will bark fiercely when someone she doesn't know approaches. 
You should maybe take Vader to OB classes for socialization more than anything, you will both get your relationship stronger in the time you have one on one.


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## scannergirl

I think you are so right about the bad feelings between you and this man being a factor! The only time my dog has ever barked at a person, other than to let us know someone was in the yard or at the door, was a man on the beach I was afraid of. But it was one bark, no growling and no hackles. She had been lying beside me, sat up, stared at him, let out this bark, I asked her to lie back down and that was it. But she watched him pretty intently.
I would also ask if you are doing any formal training with him. It seems he might feel it is his job to decide what is a threat or not. Do you practice NILIF? That for us has established who calls the shots in the house. I am amazed at how much it helps in establishing that I am the leader of my dog. And without any battles about it- very easy.
Keep up the great work with him.


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## BJDimock

There has never been someone I didn't like that my girls have!!! No matter how hard I tried to covered my feelings. Even if I had the person act nicely to my dogs, I guess I've never been able to control my feelings enough for them!


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## Cassidy's Mom

When? Six months, to a couple of years, to never.







Dena was more calm and mature at 6 months old than Keefer is at 3 years old! She's always been a really good dog, and he's STILL a wild and crazy boy!







He's a lot of fun because he's full of energy and enthusiasm, but he can be a trial at times. I'm hoping he'll get there eventually, but seriously, it so depends on the dog and their inherent personality, and also the time and training that you're willing to put in. 

The more work you do with him and the earlier, the better, so keep training, be consistent, and as Lucina said, NILIF really helps create structure and teach manners. http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm I start this immediately with my pups as soon as they come home. I got both Dena & Keefer at 9 weeks old, and at first I kept it very easy, and only made it more challenging as they matured and developed mentally.

Have you taken any obedience classes?


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## Bernadette

I have never heard of NILIF until this site.I am looking in to it.I read and own lots of books.My mother is a wild life animal rehabilitater and has been as long as I can remember.We have had so, so, many animals.She use to raise ferret's,a few different breeds of dogs(mostly Bostons) and lots of birds.She is great for resources. I do not take him to any classes. I don't think a lot of the trainers around here teach anything I don't already know. I have spoke with a trainer in my area on the phone for about an hour and I was NOT impressed with her even though she has trained for several years and is also a groomer.I guess for the social part of it would be good.I do reward him with treats,lots of praise and his ball. Mostly the ball(he loves balls)and petting. I try and save the treats for new things or trouble areas.


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## Cassidy's Mom

NILIF is great! It's totally hands off, in that the dog always has the choice to comply....but there are consequences if he doesn't - he doesn't get what he wants. It's based on the simple premise that the leader of the pack gets to control the resources, so dogs totally get it. No punishment, no force. But there is discipline in the form of rules that he needs to comply with to get what he wants.


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## Emoore

This topic made me think of the "so you think you want a puppy" FAQ that a lot of rescues post on their websites. 

Myth 5: German Shepherds stop being puppies around a year old.

BUUUUZZZZZ! I’m sorry. Try 2 or 3. Many shepherds don’t calm down and hit their stride until they’re 4 or 5. And you know that wonderful mental image you have of the stoic and noble shepherd sitting on the hill surveying his domain? He’s 9.


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## IliamnasQuest

The age GSDs calm down varies from dog to dog - my first GSD was earning obedience titles at 12 months old (had his second obedience title before he was two) and my current young GSD is 15 months and is not even close to being settled enough to be in a trial.

NILIF is wonderful, but I also really encourage classes because you need to have that distraction with other people and dogs. You may think he's socialized a lot because of all the kids that come through your home, but in all reality it's very hard to properly train when your attention is split between your dog and other things going on. In a class, you can 100% focus on your dog and you'll be able to reward the good, calm behaviors without being distracted.

His barking at people is not going to just go away with age. He's developing a habit that will probably stay with him unless you find a way to teach him an alternative behavior. Shushing and tapping on the neck obviously isn't working (and I'm NOT a fan of Millan's methods - he's eons behind in understanding dog behavior). You need to first teach him a command/behavior in a calm, non-distractive area and then gradually add in the distractions (this is where a class would help). Trying to train him not to bark while you're driving is like trying to hold back the tide with a teaspoon. You're just going to get frustrated and the tide will come in anyhow.

In the meantime, have you considered a crate in the car that you can cover, so he can't see people to bark at? Allowing the barking to just go on is going to make it much more difficult to stop.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## AllisonS

Greta's 3 years 7 months and I JUST noticed a change in her. She's still puppy-ish but I can see light at the end of the tunnel now...FINALLY.

My Panzer was so calm compared to her. Different breeder though.


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## Bernadette

I do train him after hours when I have one on one time with him.(I involve all my family members ,so they to are the pack leader.I also from time to time have my own children and their guests (ages 15 & 20) be a distraction while I'm training him.As I said before I just realized that even thought he is socialized with 100+ people he has come to know them so I should socialize him in new places,often. He does do a command.I put him in a down stay.(he just gets so excited an does not want to listen very well in the van in these areas)He does the same thing when I go to places he knows well.Like my mother in -laws,or home,or school.(he kinda wines) What do you think his excitement or anxiety is from? Or I should say why? I'm assuming (and know what they say about assuming)its because of the people. I will have to work on it with him more.(That's my fault ,not his) I do not like the crate idea for the van. We are way past crate training and I don't want him to go backwards.He rides very well except for the barking in these larger population areas.I will just have to work him up to much larger size crowds of people.I am having trouble finding a good class in my area.Know how I can find one?I have asked my Vet and called around with no luck .Just the one lady I 3was not impressed with.But I guess just fr the socialization part of it I might go their anyway.


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## MaggieRoseLee

> Quote: I do train him after hours when I have one on one time with him.(I involve all my family members ,so they to are the pack leader.I also from time to time have my own children and their guests (ages 15 & 20) be a distraction while I'm training him


While that is all an excellent start, and good for you for doing all that training......

It's NOT the same as a NEW class, with NEW dogs, and NEW people with a car ride. With the addition I've always noticed for me of the 'I don't know what I don't know'. So when I train on my own I do what I DO know (whether it works or not). The way I usually change that up if it doesn't work is get louder and angrier and impatient cause what I am teaching is crystal clear to me, what the heck is wrong with my dog and WHY WON'T SHE LISTEN.

So I have found I can take away all my anger/frustration, and my dog's IQ seems to go up phenominally as soon as we start up with the dog classes and I start gaining the skills and abilities to teach my dog to learn and listen with 'real' distractions.


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## onyx'girl

> Originally Posted By: Bernadette I do not like the crate idea for the van. We are way past crate training. I am having trouble finding a good class in my area.Know how I can find one?I have asked my Vet and called around with no luck .Just the one lady I 3was not impressed with.But I guess just fr the socialization part of it I might go their anyway.


The crate in the car is a safety issue, and he wouldn't necessarily be injured if you were in an accident. Call other vets around and see if they know of a reputable training place. Sometimes we have to drive an hour to go to the right place for training. I just found out about another one an hour south of me, would love to try it! 
Do you use a target(hand), use a clicker or practice foundation conditioning when you train? There are many little tricks that good trainers can show you on managing an excited dog. The book _Control Unleashed_ by Leslie McDevitt is wonderful and helps dog who are reactive. Google it and you can find a place that may have it in stock.


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## IliamnasQuest

The problem you seem to have is that you haven't trained a behavior that can be transferred to the van - a down stay is about impossible to enforce when you're driving, and every time you tell him "down" and he pops back up you've just showed him that he doesn't have to listen (assuming you're trying to do the down-stay in the van).

You're better off teaching him a "no bark" or "calm" command which tells him that if he is quiet, he will get a treat. It's a lot easier to toss a treat to him than to try to correct a behavior while you're driving. But first it has to be taught when you CAN have control, because every time you give a command and he gets to do something else, you're just working against yourself.

You also need to read your dog well enough to know when he's going to bark, BEFORE he actually makes a sound. This is the time to distract him and show him what the reward will be. Once he's started barking you've already allowed him to self-reinforce, and stopping the barking is much more difficult than distracting him before it starts. When I drive down the road and see someone walking with a dog, I know my dogs will react - so as soon as I see the dog, I start talking to mine. I tell them "be quiet now .. gooood dogs .. you'll get your cookie if you're quiet" (I'm not afraid to bribe at these times .. *L*) and then as soon as we pass the dog I toss biscuits back and they happily munch away. If I don't see the dog and I don't distract beforehand, then I'M the one to blame if they bark. I usually have 2-4 dogs in the van so it's a lot more difficult to manage than one dog, but it can (and is) managed.

There's really no such thing as being "way past crate training". Dogs should understand and accept the crate throughout their entire lives. If he's acting uncontrolled in the van, then he's not anywhere past crate training (the crate is more than just a means to teach potty control). You need to find a way to control his actions, and obviously it's not working the way you're doing it.

Now, if you're going to specifically work on his barking then you may want to leave him out of the crate while you go to an area with minimal distraction and work on rewarding quiet behavior. But if you're running errands and you know that you're going to go to a place where he will have lots to bark at, then allowing him to just bark is going to continue to teach him that barking is not only okay, but fun! Using a crate is a sensible thing to do and will allow you to control the behaviors that are a problem.

You might try calling groomers in your area and see if they know of any classes. I've been training forever and still take my dogs to classes so that I can train with the distractions. Classes are valuable training experiences even if I don't specifically do everything the class offers (and I tell the instructor what I am working on so that they know if I choose not to do something - I get away with it because they all know me, may be a bit harder for you).

Melanie and the gang in Alaska


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## Bernadette

I use both hand and verbal signals,I did use a clicker for awhile( I have to get another one).He does not ride loose.He has a harness he uses for car riding.I also have a heavy duty gate for my van (it is from my last van) but I have not decided if I want to install it in this van.I would probably have to travel and hour + in any direction.That's what we have to do to do any major shopping. Their are just little country towns around here. I love dog books,they let you take in everybody's opinion and then you can try different things,because dogs are like kids sometimes you can teach a child one way but have to teach it a different way for a DIFFERENT child.Thanks for the book info.


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## sume747

Duece, 8 months, has started barking at EVERYTHING. I taught him "quiet" and now just watch for the signs. If at home he barks at everything that he sees out the window and I am not to the point where I can just yell out "QUIET" from the other room, I have to physically get up and make eye contact with him before he will stop, and when in the car I watch his body language and catch him before he starts like " qeiet, quiet" then as the people are passing or whatever I tell him "good quiet, good quiet" and if he makes it I reward. I always have treats on me. It is slowly but surely working.


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