# How protective?



## Kenny1988 (Apr 19, 2012)

How protective do you like your gsd to be? Any specific actions or behaviors that you like to see? I have a 5 month old and I'm waiting to see if she starts getting any protective instincts and what not... Just curious to what everyone else likes


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

I like a dog that alerts me when someone comes on my property and barks when someone knocks or rings the doorbell. As far as attacking, I would prefer a dog trained to take someone down and intimidate them until help arrives or until I give the release command without biting hard enough to break the skin or without biting at all. That way if the dog ever does misinterpret a situation, the chance of legal hassles is greatly reduced.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

How would you suggest that a dog "take someone down" without "breaking their skin"? That sounds like quite a good way to do it.

Esp. if the potential bad guy has a weapon.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> As far as attacking, I would prefer a dog trained to take someone down and intimidate them until help arrives or until I give the release command without biting hard enough to break the skin or without biting at all. That way if the dog ever does misinterpret a situation, the chance of legal hassles is greatly reduced.


I wonder how you go about training for this? Do you have a plan in place and a trainer lined up? 

Also, whether the dog bites hard enough to break skin or not, that is moot. If a dog is trained to bite and does attack when not warrented, you are still help liable for damages, physical or psychological, because you have not trained your dog well enough to not cause uncalled-for harm. 

It is also counter-productive to teach a dog to "not bite hard". With a soft bite, the perpetrator can easily shake off and use his/her hands to beat the dog - if a dog comes off the bite the person can run away, or attack you, or whatever else. 

What most of us need, is the deterrent factor of a big dog, and if said dog barks on command, all the better for the intimidation factor. No one should attempt to bite-train a dog and think that their dog won't do any real damage, and thus feel safer about liability. It just doesn't work that way.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

+1 to Castlemaid. 

I met a couple today hiking with Rocket that live in my neighborhood. They were amazed at how friendly Rocket actually was when they met him with me. The guy said "We've watched you walk him since he was just a wee pup. And believe me, we certainly never thought he looked friendly or approachable in ANY WAY. My wife used to comment on how safe you must feel with him!"

I actually am training a bark-loudly-on-command- with him, just for fun.


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

codmaster said:


> How would you suggest that a dog "take someone down" without "breaking their skin?


Run at them and jump, using weight and momentum to knock them over. Stay on top of them barking and snarling so they're too afraid to try to move. Or back them in a corner instead and keep them there through intimidation. I just know misunderstandings do occur. For example what if a dog owner doesn't hear a friend or family member that lives elsewhere knock and the they stupidly decide to open the door and enter. Better the friend or family is pinned to the ground or backed in a corner than torn and bleeding or dead.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I would prefer my GSD to be aloof with strangers, which she is. She notices them, watches them for a minute, then goes about her business--she doesn't bark, pull, or lunge to get to them at all. When my family comes to visit, she accepts them, plays with the kids, and gives lots of kisses. I like that she can be affectionate too. If there is something out side and its nothing serious she doesn't make a peep, the other two dogs are barking away and she keeps quiet. I like the idea that she barks only when needed and its not continuous, its a warning and when she barks I know there is something there that shouldn't be. I'm happy with her looking intimidating, it has worked on more then one occasion. As she gets older, I feel even more proud and sure of her abilities to sense when something isn't right. I trust her instincts and she trusts mine. Once she is full grown I don't believe she would ever let anyone hurt me or anyone in our family...No training, just lots of love and loyalty


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

1>>>> you've never had a dog trained that could take someone down
without breaking the skin.

2>>>> if your dog knocks someone over accidentally (no biting,
no aggression, etc) you can be sued.



Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> I like a dog that alerts me when someone comes on my property and barks when someone knocks or rings the doorbell. As far as attacking,
> 
> 1 >>>> I would prefer a dog trained to take someone down and intimidate them until help arrives or until I give the release command without biting hard enough to break the skin or without biting at all.
> 
> 2 >>>> That way if the dog ever does misinterpret a situation, the chance of legal hassles is greatly reduced.<<<<


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog is my pet/companion. i protect my dog. i don't
depend on my dog for protection.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Mr & Mrs. K: Well, make sure you have an excellent trainer and that your dog has 110% perfect obedience in all situations. But for what you want, you should have gone with a mastiff, as that is more the type of protection and intimidation that they were bred for. 

Have you ever trained a dog for anything similar? I'm worried that your pup may not have the correct temperament for this, and that setting him up for the kind of above scenario will only make him more into a fear biter, and everything you don't want him to be. I don't want to discount his temperament, nor your ability to do this, but it all sounds very naive. If an experienced person was talking about protection training (whether to bark aggressively, or train to bite), they would know how to find and select a dog with the proper temperament, they would know how to read the puppy and raise it to be confident and not mistake puppy fear reactions as protectiveness, and they would be working with a trainer, from day one, to put in place the basic ground work to bring out wanted behaviours for later, and basic obedience work that will be needed later on. 

If you are interested in protection training, please find an experienced trainer and work with them, this is not something that people with no experience can do themselves. 

But again, just the physical presence of your dog should be enough deterrent to make you feel safe. My GSD is calm and friendly, very reliable in all kinds of situations. I took him to an obedience trial, and one of the organizers took one look at him and said: "Boy, I'd hate to come face-to-face with him in a dark alley at night!" His sheer presence was intimidating, he didn't have to do anything at all.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> my dog is my pet/companion. i protect my dog. i don't
> depend on my dog for protection.


And I can almost bet that because of your relationship with your dog that your dog would protect you if needed.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I protect my dog with my life, and he protects me with his. We protect each other, and I enjoy this breed for many, many reasons and the protection and intimidation factor is one of those reasons.

I like my dog(s) to be entirely aloof with people, unconcerned and watchful... vigilant, if you will. I want them social, well-mannered and just a tad suspicious in general. I train in Schutzhund for solid obedience and protection work if I need protection. I also expect to be alerted to people on my property, especially at the door, windows or around the house. I expect my dog(s) to defend me if commanded, or if they see me being beaten. 

I like the protectiveness of the breed, but I don't want to see instability and ill temperament. I want solid nerves and solid obedience.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Kenny1988 said:


> How protective do you like your gsd to be? Any specific actions or behaviors that you like to see? I have a 5 month old and I'm waiting to see if she starts getting any protective instincts and what not... Just curious to what everyone else likes


I like my GSD to bark when someone knocks on the door and when someone walks past my house. And if someone is being rough with me, I like when he barks/growls, bares his teeth, and if necessary, nips. But of course this is not good if there is no posed threat. My GSD happens to be very scared of people and has a case of fear aggression, and he barks and growls even if there is so sign of a threat. Though this is the case, he knows when I'm in a bad situation and he steps in and puts them in their place; he NEVER EVER lunges or nips when people aren't doing anything threatening. I keep him safe and in return, he keeps me safe. 
And he doesn't even have to bark/growl, he just looks intimidating! He might have even saved me on a few occasions.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i don't have a protective dog. i might set up a situation
one day to see if he'll protect. my bet is he won't.
llombardo when it comes to betting never bet on something
you know nothing about and never bet with your heart.



doggiedad said:


> my dog is my pet/companion. i protect my dog. i don't depend on my dog for protection.





llombardo said:


> And I can almost bet that because of your relationship with your dog that your dog would protect you if needed.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i don't have a protective dog. i might set up a situation
> one day to see if he'll protect. my bet is he won't.
> llombardo when it comes to betting never bet on something
> you know nothing about and never bet with your heart.


Thats why I said *almost* bet


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Mr & Mrs Kirkley said:


> Run at them and jump, using weight and momentum to knock them over. Stay on top of them barking and snarling so they're too afraid to try to move. Or back them in a corner instead and keep them there through intimidation. I just know misunderstandings do occur. For example what if a dog owner doesn't hear a friend or family member that lives elsewhere knock and the they stupidly decide to open the door and enter. Better the friend or family is pinned to the ground or backed in a corner than torn and bleeding or dead.


Unrealistic of an untrained dog. Castlemaid said it best.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

To answer the OP -- how protective? I expect nothing more than barking/alerting. He is intimidating when he is barking. It is deep and the vast majority of people would be extremely intimidated. Anyone who knows him, knows they can come right in the yard and he'll wag his tail and do nothing... but someone trying to rob me doesn't know that and it is very likely they'd go on to the next house, rather than deal with him. Add to that that I now have his brother, who also has the same deep, no-nonsense bark. When they're both going? Oh no. They present quite a front. No one that didn't know them would dare keep coming unless they planned to shoot them. 

Now of course *I* know you could come right in the yard and they'd maybe jump on the person because they'd be happy to have some new human to play with, but strangers don't know that. I'll keep it that way. That's enough for me.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I like my GSD to bark when someone knocks on the door and *when someone walks past my house*. *Why?*
> 
> And if someone is being rough with me, I like when he barks/growls, bares his teeth, and if necessary, nips. But of course this is not good if there is no posed threat. My GSD happens to be very scared of people and has a case of fear aggression, and *he barks and growls even if there is so sign of a threat.* Though this is the case, he knows when I'm in a bad situation and *he steps in and puts them in their place; he NEVER EVER lunges or nips when people aren't doing anything threatening.* I keep him safe and in return, he keeps me safe. *Are you kidding here?*
> And he doesn't even have to bark/growl, he just looks intimidating! He *might *have even saved me on a few occasions.


 
*Might?*

*If he is so FA, don't you think that your dog might run away from the scary thing?*


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## Mr & Mrs Kirkley (Mar 9, 2012)

Castlemaid said:


> Mr & Mrs. K: Well, make sure you have an excellent trainer and that your dog has 110% perfect obedience in all situations. But for what you want, you should have gone with a mastiff, as that is more the type of protection and intimidation that they were bred for.
> 
> Have you ever trained a dog for anything similar? I'm worried that your pup may not have the correct temperament for this


If she has the right temperament once she's fully grown, I might have her protection trained. If not, she will continue to be an alert barker and that by itself is often a deterrent.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Good luck to you and your dog!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I just read an interesting article a few minutes ago about German Shepherds....

_People often purchase GSDs for their keen watchdog abilites:alerting family members to the presence of danger. The problem is that many owners think that encouraging the dog to bark and lunge at the front door and the fence line will make a more protective dog. Big mistake.
The best watchdog is one who is well-socialized. The reason is simple: A socialized GSD can recognize friend from foe; an unsocialized GSD can't, she explains If your grandmother rings the bell, the dog who isn't people friendly will alert in the same manner as when a shifty character is lurking in your hedge. "Everyone is suspect." Additionally, if your dog is antisocial, you'll need to crate her when friends come over because your GSD will not tolerate any visitors.
So if you want an accurate alarm system, buy a mechanized one and have it installed. If you want a great dog who will alert you to someone strange coming on your property, take the time to teach your GSD that people are generally good and come bearing treats. Rest assured that the well-socialized dog--and only the well-socialized dog--will easily be able to read a person's bad intentions, and the dog will alert you._


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## jakes mom (Feb 29, 2012)

I'll tell you an interesting story. When I first met my OH he had a GSD bitch, Gemma - wonderful dog, never on leash, not specially trained, just perfect. Sit and wait outside shops etc. -loved kids - went down park slides on her own accord with them- very special dog. I used to say I was sure she undertood english. 

Anyway whenever a strange cat, fox or whatever was in the yard - my OH would open the door - let Gemma out and tell her to 'see them off' and she's race down the yard barking and chase them off. Fine - no problem.

One day we were out walking and a group of my grandsons friends were on the common playing kick about with the football. They came over to us and we were having a chat and stoking Gemma. Anyway they started to get a bit cheeky - not rude - just playing us up. John (OH) said jokingly I'll set Gemma on you - which they all found very amusing as they knew and loved her. So my OH said 'Gem see them off ' and she did just that, barked and chased them away. 

No real harm done - but lesson learned, never said it again inappropriately.

She left us with no doubt what she was capable of .....
____________________
Sue


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## Kenny1988 (Apr 19, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I just read an interesting article a few minutes ago about German Shepherds....
> 
> _People often purchase GSDs for their keen watchdog abilites:alerting family members to the presence of danger. The problem is that many owners think that encouraging the dog to bark and lunge at the front door and the fence line will make a more protective dog. Big mistake.
> The best watchdog is one who is well-socialized. The reason is simple: A socialized GSD can recognize friend from foe; an unsocialized GSD can't, she explains If your grandmother rings the bell, the dog who isn't people friendly will alert in the same manner as when a shifty character is lurking in your hedge. "Everyone is suspect." Additionally, if your dog is antisocial, you'll need to crate her when friends come over because your GSD will not tolerate any visitors.
> So if you want an accurate alarm system, buy a mechanized one and have it installed. If you want a great dog who will alert you to someone strange coming on your property, take the time to teach your GSD that people are generally good and come bearing treats. Rest assured that the well-socialized dog--and only the well-socialized dog--will easily be able to read a person's bad intentions, and the dog will alert you._



This makes the most sense in my mind.. I plan on simply socializing her as much and best as possible so she knows people are generally good. Im confindent this breed will know if something is wrong or someones is hurting our family. Seems the safest for the dog the friendly visitors


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## catz (Dec 10, 2010)

Rio gives a few barks when she hears the doorbell and that is it. Once the door is opened she is a wriggling ball of fur who just wants a rub. I never encouraged the barking (I actually had to teach her to shut up after 1 or 2) and am satisfied with that level of protection. I do not want a dog that is unfriendly or suspicious of strangers, I want a dog that is happy to meet anyone that I allow into my home or talk to on the street.


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## Whisper (Mar 24, 2012)

Fable is still a little puppy so I have no idea how strong her protective instincts will be.
Even with the future GSDs I plan on doing SchH with, what I want most is a visual deterrent. Most people aren't stupid enough to want to get into a tangle with an unknown dog, especially with a breed like a GSD.
I've had dogs that have risked their lives for me, including, and especially, my little border collie/lab mix. It's not something I demand or expect from any dog, though. Even the best protection dog can be stopped tragically and quickly with a bullet. Using a dog as a primary weapon is, IMO, irresponsible and asking for trouble.

*llombardo*, good post. A lot of people think the best protection dog is a dog that's unsocialized and wary of everyone. It's quite the opposite. The best are those who are well socialized and know the difference between normal and suspicious behavior. Of course I'm not talking about dogs who are trained to attack on command. I'm talking about instinct.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I have never expected my dogs to 'protect' me, and I've never been in a situation where I've needed any protecting

Right now with one gsd (and 2 aussies), Masi (gsd), isn't a huge alert barker, she's more the silent watchful type She will let anyone in the house, check them out and she's usually quite disinterested after that, so I would say extremely 'aloof' with anyone she isn't familiar with. Now what she'd do when I'm not here, no idea, hasn't happened. 

My male aussie is another story, nothing gets by him, and he will let you know it, he's also not real social with men especially, and out of all the dogs I've ever owned (all gsd's except two), he is one I would say would nail an intruder/trespasser whatever you want to call it, probably not out of protecting his owner, more like protecting himself..

They are what they are, and their personalities and temperaments are fine by me.

I hope I would never be in a situation where Masi would 'have' to protect me, because I'm not sure what she would do, altho I do know she is quite possessive of me..


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

codmaster said:


> *Might?*
> 
> *If he is so FA, don't you think that your dog might run away from the scary thing?*


-I want him to bark at people that go past my house, because I want to make sure stupid teens don't get the idea to break in. There are plenty of them around where I live. (Go ahead. Think it's rediculous.)
-I don't know what you are referring to when you said "*Are you kidding here?"*, so if it was the bold blue letters, no. It souds bad when you put it like that, but I assure you, he's not viscous at all or so cowardly to where he won't go near strangers (just to sniff them out of curiosity. Not to go bite them. Jeeze). 
If it was "I keep him safe and in return, he keeps me safe", uhh no. He feels safe around me, which is why he isn't viscous. He knows that I'm in control of any situation. Yeah, he barks in non-threatening situations, but only for a short while until I greet the guest and let Harley know they are not a threat. If a stranger is being rough with me, he growls or nips, he doesn't completely attack. 
-"*Might*?" Yeah. Might. There was one occasion where 2 guys in a pickup stopped me on the sidewalk (they asked me my name, where I went to school, age, etc.), and they started to walk towards me and stopped and went back to their truck when Harley started freaking out (yeah he was scared, but that probably just made those guys nervous). 

BTW: I know the best protective dog is a well socialized dog, because they know how to tell a calm situation from a tense, dangerous situation. I know mine is FA, but that doesn't mean he won't stick up for the one that looks out for him. I also don't EXPECT him to protect me (I don't need protecting, I'm tough ). I make sure people don't mess with him, and he watches my back.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> -I want him to bark at people that go past my house, because I want to make sure stupid teens don't get the idea to break in. There are plenty of them around where I live. (Go ahead. Think it's rediculous.)
> -I don't know what you are referring to when you said "*Are you kidding here?"*, so if it was the bold blue letters, no. It souds bad when you put it like that, but I assure you, he's not viscous at all or so cowardly to where he won't go near strangers (just to sniff them out of curiosity. Not to go bite them. Jeeze).
> If it was "I keep him safe and in return, he keeps me safe", uhh no. He feels safe around me, which is why he isn't viscous. He knows that I'm in control of any situation. Yeah, he barks in non-threatening situations, but only for a short while until I greet the guest and let Harley know they are not a threat. If a stranger is being rough with me, he growls or nips, he doesn't completely attack.
> -"*Might*?" Yeah. Might. There was one occasion where 2 guys in a pickup stopped me on the sidewalk (they asked me my name, where I went to school, age, etc.), and they started to walk towards me and stopped and went back to their truck when Harley started freaking out (yeah he was scared, but that probably just made those guys nervous).
> ...


It is great that you have such good feeling about your dog!


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Whisper said:


> The best are those who are well socialized and know the difference between normal and suspicious behavior.


What is the difference between normal and suspicious behavior? Normal or suspicious for who?



HarleyTheGSD said:


> I know the best protective dog is a well socialized dog, because they know how to tell a calm situation from a tense, dangerous situation.


What is the difference between a calm situation and a tense, dangerous situation? 

How does a dog determine this?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Fear aggression is the absolute opposite of a confident dog. Your posts are full of contradictions "but that doesn't mean he won't stick up for the one that looks out for him. I also don't EXPECT him to protect me "

Nip is as good as a bite by the way --- .


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

carmspack said:


> Fear aggression is the absolute opposite of a confident dog. Your posts are full of contradictions "but that doesn't mean he won't stick up for the one that looks out for him. I also don't EXPECT him to protect me "
> 
> Nip is as good as a bite by the way --- .


I know that fear aggression is the exact opposite of a confident dog. I don't remember saying it wasn't. All I said was that even though a dog may be fearful, that doesn't mean it can't be protective, even though it may not be as reliable. I don't see how this: *"but that doesn't mean he won't stick up for the one that looks out for him. I also don't EXPECT him to protect me " *is a contradiction. But hey, what do I know of contradictions? (Not a lot actually.) When I said this, all I meant was that he protects me, but I don't expect him to. I can handle myself, and I am usually the one protecting HIM. 

I agree that a nip is as good as a bite (but he never broke skin, so it must have been a "soft" bite). And he isn't just biting everybody that walks through my door. He isn't anywhere near mean. I call it protective. I would consider it odd for a Shepherd to not protect their owner in a dangerous situation. It is a natural instinct in them as well as most breeds. 

(Sorry if none of that made any sense)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I know that fear aggression is the exact opposite of a confident dog. I don't remember saying it wasn't. All I said was that even though a dog may be fearful, that doesn't mean it can't be protective, even though it may not be as reliable. I don't see how this: *"but that doesn't mean he won't stick up for the one that looks out for him. I also don't EXPECT him to protect me " *is a contradiction. But hey, what do I know of contradictions? (Not a lot actually.) When I said this, all I meant was that he protects me, but I don't expect him to. I can handle myself, and I am usually the one protecting HIM.
> 
> *IF the occasion really did call for a bite (it didn't seem to) then a "nip" can be seen as the reaction of a fearful dog!*
> 
> ...





*You are forgiven (It doesn't to me either!)*

*Most breeds are NOT protective! And a well bred GSD and socialized properly seems to usually be able to judge a situation and peopoe pretty good regarding "danger". *


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Falkosmom said:


> What is the difference between a calm situation and a tense, dangerous situation?
> 
> How does a dog determine this?


I would consider a calm situation a situation where there are people talking, moving around, joking, laughing, etc...and the dog can relax or play with someone. 
I would consider a tense/dangerous situation a situation where there are raised/tense voices or violent physical contact. Then I think it would be normal for the dog to become tense or alert.
I would think a dog would determine this by hearing the differences in people's voices and seeing the differences in body posture. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I would consider a calm situation a situation where there are people talking, moving around, joking, laughing, etc...and the dog can relax or play with someone.
> I would consider a tense/dangerous situation a situation where there are raised/tense voices or violent physical contact. Then I think it would be normal for the dog to become tense or alert.
> I would think a dog would determine this by hearing the differences in people's voices and seeing the differences in body posture.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong!


Don't forget that a LOT of dogs will take their real cues from the handler - nervous handler = a more alert reactive dog.

But would you want a dog who would be apt to bite just because of raised voices? Got to have more control than this - maybe barking but not an attack to bite.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

codmaster said:


> [/COLOR][/B]*You are forgiven (It doesn't to me either!)*
> 
> *Most breeds are NOT protective! And a well bred GSD and socialized properly seems to usually be able to judge a situation and peopoe pretty good regarding "danger". *


They aren't? Maybe I'm thinking of something completely different. What I mean is that most breeds would protect their owner in a *real* dangerous situation. 
Ex: If the owner was being brutally beaten by a mugger, the dog would protect them. 

Yes, a well bred GSD _should_ be able to judge a situation well. But sadly, my GSD's breeder wasn't focusing on temperament and he turned out very fearful. The breeder also failed to socialize him before 4 months old (when I got him), so his fear stuck with him, no matter how much I socialized him (I still am socializing him at 2 years old!). But I don't care, I still love him and he's still the greatest dog I could have asked for, no matter how messed up he is.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

codmaster said:


> But would you want a dog who would be apt to bite just because of raised voices? Got to have more control than this - maybe barking but not an attack to bite.


I agree, I wouldn't want my dog to bite because of raised voices, but the dog would become tense and possibly bark, or possibly just become more alert.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> I would consider a calm situation a situation where there are people talking, moving around, joking, laughing, etc...and the dog can relax or play with someone.


I dropped my car off at the auto repair shop the other night and walked home. I do not live in a savory neighborhood. It was a cold night. At one point as we approached an intersection, two young men appeared, acting as you described above. The one young man had nothing but a t shirt and jeans on, and both of them were a little unsteady on their feet. The intersection we neared was well known for drugs, alcohol and a host of other illegal activities. What did they want? Where were they going? How high were they? Were they looking to rob somebody? Were they armed? If they were up to no good, it would only make sense to me that they would act calmly to lure me into a false sense of security, wouldn't it? Maybe, maybe not.

One night as I sat on my porch, I saw a man come running up the street holding up his oversized pants. I ignored him as he ran somewhere down the street, or so I thought. The next thing I know here comes two police officers running with a police car pulling up to them yelling which way did he go? At that very instant my Falko did a growl and lunge followed by an untrained bark and hold at my fence trying to get into the walkway separating my and the neighbor's house. Long story short, this man had escaped from police custody at a nearby hospital where he had been taken for his drug and alcohol induced altered mental status. I never did learn of the original reason for his arrest. Oddly, the man, unbeknownst to me, was only about 3 feet away from me in the dark, laying on the ground, not moving, silent, and I had originally chosen to view him as a non threat. Was I wrong? 



HarleyTheGSD said:


> I would consider a tense/dangerous situation a situation where there are raised/tense voices or violent physical contact. Then I think it would be normal for the dog to become tense or alert.


On the other hand, there was a tense situation the other day at a neighbor's between a man and his ex's new beau regarding the man's child as the beau came to retrieve the child from a visit. There was a lot of yelling and posturing. It sounded frightening. It was a very intense situation.



HarleyTheGSD said:


> I would think a dog would determine this by hearing the differences in people's voices and seeing the differences in body posture.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong!


I am by no means a rocket scientist, but in each situation above, things could have easily been viewed as a threat or a non threat. I initially viewed each one as a nonthreat. But surely one must see where expecting a dog to determine whether these situations were threats or not, is really expecting way too much from a dog. It is difficult for a person to make that determination.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

llombardo said:


> I just read an interesting article a few minutes ago about German Shepherds....
> 
> _People often purchase GSDs for their keen watchdog abilites:alerting family members to the presence of danger. The problem is that many owners think that encouraging the dog to bark and lunge at the front door and the fence line will make a more protective dog. Big mistake.
> The best watchdog is one who is well-socialized. The reason is simple: A socialized GSD can recognize friend from foe; an unsocialized GSD can't, she explains If your grandmother rings the bell, the dog who isn't people friendly will alert in the same manner as when a shifty character is lurking in your hedge. "Everyone is suspect." Additionally, if your dog is antisocial, you'll need to crate her when friends come over because your GSD will not tolerate any visitors.
> So if you want an accurate alarm system, buy a mechanized one and have it installed. If you want a great dog who will alert you to someone strange coming on your property, take the time to teach your GSD that people are generally good and come bearing treats. Rest assured that the well-socialized dog--and only the well-socialized dog--will easily be able to read a person's bad intentions, and the dog will alert you._


While I pretty much agree with what is said here I would also add genetics to socialization. If a dog has weak nerve, no amount of socialization is going to fix that, if a dog has good genetics and nerve behind it, it should do all of these things *WITHOUT* extensive socialization.
Socialization is not the be all and end all.......genetics are pretty important too. JMO


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> They aren't? Maybe I'm thinking of something completely different. What I mean is that most breeds would protect their owner in a *real* dangerous situation.
> Ex: If the owner was being brutally beaten by a mugger, the dog would protect them.


There are a lot of people that believe most dogs would not protect even in these situations.



HarleyTheGSD said:


> Yes, a well bred GSD _should_ be able to judge a situation well. But sadly, my GSD's breeder wasn't focusing on temperament and he turned out very fearful. The breeder also failed to socialize him before 4 months old (when I got him), so his fear stuck with him, no matter how much I socialized him (I still am socializing him at 2 years old!). But I don't care, I still love him and he's still the greatest dog I could have asked for, no matter how messed up he is.


I think you can find a lot of good help on this site regarding your dog and his issues. People on here can be very helpful, and so many are very knowledgable.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I also tend to think that most dogs would not protect their owner in a real dangerous situation.

Dogs that are fearful are unpredictable, they could run, they could nail a person and run, if cornered they are going to fight because their is no place to go, and to end, most dogs are self serving, they are going to save themselves before they will their owner. Certainly exceptions to the rule, and a trained dog/a dog with good genetics/balanced is going to be more predictable than a dog that is FA.

Just my opinion


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I also tend to think that most dogs would not protect their owner in a real dangerous situation.
> 
> Dogs that are fearful are unpredictable, they could run, they could nail a person and run, if cornered they are going to fight because their is no place to go, and to end, most dogs are self serving, they are going to save themselves before they will their owner. Certainly exceptions to the rule, and a trained dog/a dog with good genetics/balanced is going to be more predictable than a dog that is FA.
> 
> Just my opinion


Really? I am so astonished. So many people are saying that most dogs won't protect their owners in dangerous situations. Maybe things have changed, but I read that German Shepherds (along with many other breeds) have an instinct to protect. Would somebody like to varify that most dogs are not protective? Where did you see/hear/read this? I'm not trying to be rude, I just want to know how I've apparently gotton this wrong my whole life.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Falkosmom said:


> I dropped my car off at the auto repair shop the other night and walked home. I do not live in a savory neighborhood. It was a cold night. At one point as we approached an intersection, two young men appeared, acting as you described above. The one young man had nothing but a t shirt and jeans on, and both of them were a little unsteady on their feet. The intersection we neared was well known for drugs, alcohol and a host of other illegal activities. What did they want? Where were they going? How high were they? Were they looking to rob somebody? Were they armed? If they were up to no good, it would only make sense to me that they would act calmly to lure me into a false sense of security, wouldn't it? Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> One night as I sat on my porch, I saw a man come running up the street holding up his oversized pants. I ignored him as he ran somewhere down the street, or so I thought. The next thing I know here comes two police officers running with a police car pulling up to them yelling which way did he go? At that very instant my Falko did a growl and lunge followed by an untrained bark and hold at my fence trying to get into the walkway separating my and the neighbor's house. Long story short, this man had escaped from police custody at a nearby hospital where he had been taken for his drug and alcohol induced altered mental status. I never did learn of the original reason for his arrest. Oddly, the man, unbeknownst to me, was only about 3 feet away from me in the dark, laying on the ground, not moving, silent, and I had originally chosen to view him as a non threat. Was I wrong?
> 
> ...


Are you saying that I'm wrong? 
That's fine, thank you for correcting me. 
I would just like to know then, what would a calm/dangerous situation be? Is it unknown or undecided?


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> Really? I am so astonished. So many people are saying that most dogs won't protect their owners in dangerous situations. Maybe things have changed, but I read that German Shepherds (along with many other breeds) have an instinct to protect. Would somebody like to varify that most dogs are not protective? Where did you see/hear/read this? I'm not trying to be rude, I just want to know how I've apparently gotton this wrong my whole life.


 
Easy way to find out! - go to a local ScH or similar type club (or a pro trainer with the right experience). get a decoy with a full bite suit on, walk your dog along there and have the guy(woman) come running at you firing a blank pistol with a liitle ScH stick and have him (or her!) whack YOU with the stick and threaten your dog. My guess is that you will soon find out if your dog would protect you.

maybe yes, maybe no!

I wouldn't advise most people to try it with an untrained dog.

As many have stated here and elsewhere, the temperament of the average GSD is probably not what it used to be (or should be!).


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Easy way to find out! - go to a local ScH or similar type club (or a pro trainer with the right experience). get a decoy with a full bite suit on, walk your dog along there and have the guy(woman) come running at you firing a blank pistol with a liitle ScH stick and have him (or her!) whack YOU with the stick and threaten your dog. My guess is that you will soon find out if your dog would protect you.
> 
> maybe yes, maybe no!
> 
> ...


Codmaster, I understand your point but is the above scenario really a valid way to test this? I am thinking of myself and my boy in the above situation and me knowing it's "fake" and not reacting as I would in a real life danger/threat situation.

I also would not rely on my dog to protect me, I like they he will alert bark (he let us know when our 14 yr old neighbor was trying to sneak back in his house in the middle of the night, it was summer and the windows were open & what he heard sounded out of place I guess, my husband went outside and saw him trying to go through his bedroom window) anyway, alert bark, "good boy" my husband or I will take over from there.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Courtney said:


> Codmaster, I understand your point but is the above scenario really a valid way to test this? I am thinking of myself and my boy in the above situation and me knowing it's "fake" and not reacting as I would in a real life danger/threat situation. *Good test of courage and instinct of my GSD!*
> 
> I also would not rely on my dog to protect me, I like they he will alert bark (he let us know when our 14 yr old neighbor was trying to sneak back in his house in the middle of the night, it was summer and the windows were open & what he heard sounded out of place I guess, my husband went outside and saw him trying to go through his bedroom window) anyway, alert bark, "good boy" my husband or I will take over from there.


 
Yes, it is for the most part a very valid scenario (little exagerated but very true). In fact, the 2 ScH clubs that I have been a member of both insisted on a courage test of my untrained dogs to see if they would protect themselves in the face of a threatening stranger at least before they were admitted to the training.

What would you expect your dog to do if the neighbor was coming into YOUR house and you were asleep upstairs? Dog bark and come running upstairs to get you and hubby? Or bark and stay away from the "intruder' or go into defense mode and bite the heck out of the intruder?

The way that someone answers such a question wilol describe what they want and expect in a GSD.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Yes, it is for the most part a very valid scenario (little exagerated but very true). In fact, the 2 ScH clubs that I have been a member of both insisted on a courage test of my untrained dogs to see if they would protect themselves in the face of a threatening stranger at least before they were admitted to the training.
> 
> What would you expect your dog to do if the neighbor was coming into YOUR house and you were asleep upstairs? Dog bark and come running upstairs to get you and hubby? Or bark and stay away from the "intruder' or go into defense mode and bite the heck out of the intruder?
> 
> The way that someone answers such a question wilol describe what they want and expect in a GSD.


Valid point imo. I expected my past shepherds, expect Dakoda, and expect any future shepherds to defend the house against an intruder. As well as defend me in any situation.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> Valid point imo. I expected my past shepherds, expect Dakoda, and expect any future shepherds to defend the house against an intruder. As well as defend me in any situation.


 
Sounds like what we all do.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

codmaster said:


> Yes, it is for the most part a very valid scenario (little exagerated but very true). In fact, the 2 ScH clubs that I have been a member of both insisted on a courage test of my untrained dogs to see if they would protect themselves in the face of a threatening stranger at least before they were admitted to the training.
> 
> What would you expect your dog to do if the neighbor was coming into YOUR house and you were asleep upstairs? Dog bark and come running upstairs to get you and hubby? Or bark and stay away from the "intruder' or go into defense mode and bite the heck out of the intruder?
> 
> The way that someone answers such a question wilol describe what they want and expect in a GSD.


Ok, I can buy that w/ no issue. I do not partcipate in ScH and don't connect the dots like those who do. I like the idea of a courage test, I guess it all starts there with a dog training in protection. Interesting, I would like to see how my boy would react.

What would I expect my dog to do if someone was attempting to come into our home or in our home while we were sleeping upstairs? This scenerio is really bad because this person knows the house is occupied and still wants to enter, they mean my family harm. Honestly, I hope like h*ll my boy rises to the occasion and confronts the intruder. The demise of the intruder by my husband would be swift and quick, lights out for him. I would imagine being attacked by a dog would be very painful, he would wish for my husbands way, over for him fast, less pain.


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## OriginalWacky (Dec 21, 2011)

codmaster said:


> > Originally Posted by *GsdLoverr729*
> > _Valid point imo. I expected my past shepherds, expect Dakoda, and expect any future shepherds to defend the house against an intruder. As well as defend me in any situation._
> 
> 
> Sounds like what we all do.


Actually, I'm looking for a dog that will alert bark, and then stay clear of the intruder or come and bark at me to take care of it. Bonus if I can have a dog that's trained to hold etc on command, but really I don't expect that from Koshka at all since he'll be a service dog and won't get any bitework training.


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## Whisper (Mar 24, 2012)

Falkosmom said:


> What is the difference between normal and suspicious behavior? Normal or suspicious for who?


Good questions that I honestly don't really know how to answer. To go to the extreme examples, a friendly hug vs. a grab from behind and attempt at strangulation. Similar physical appearance, very different situations. "Suspicious" situations are situations that evoke wary emotional reactions. It's more of a "I know it when I see it" thing.

In another post you said something along the lines of us expecting too much from our dogs in regards to judging dangerous situations, since we aren't always good at noticing them, either. I disagree. I think dogs have a much keener instinct than ours. My dog, Millie, usually ignores people on our walks. However, there was one man who used to jog, and we ran into every once in a while. She would get her hackles up and bark and growl at him. Every single time we ran into him she would do that. I was wondering what on earth was wrong with my dog and why she would react like that to a stranger. One day I was looking at sex offenders in my area. On the map one was awfully close to me so I clicked on it. That man's face, clear as day. Repeat offender. You might disagree, but I don't think Millie's response and his disgusting record were a coincidence.
I know you're looking for a concrete answer, but I can't get my head straight at the moment on the topic. 

On another note, nope, I don't think most dogs will protect. I think many will put on a good show, but when it comes to an intruder inflicting bodily injury I think most will back down.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

OriginalWacky said:


> Actually, I'm looking for a dog that will alert bark, and then stay clear of the intruder or come and bark at me to take care of it. Bonus if I can have a dog that's trained to hold etc on command, but really I don't expect that from Koshka at all since he'll be a service dog and won't get any bitework training.


Good alert dog, then. Little terriers are great at this as well!


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> Are you saying that I'm wrong?
> That's fine, thank you for correcting me.
> I would just like to know then, what would a calm/dangerous situation be? Is it unknown or undecided?


No, I am not saying that you are wrong. What I am saying is that real life situations are not necessarily cut and dried, as the examples I posted. I am just saying that if you are on here asking questions, and I am, and so many others, and we can't decide, how can one truly expect a dog to decide what is threatening and what is not with any true degree of accuracy?



codmaster said:


> Easy way to find out! - go to a local ScH or similar type club (or a pro trainer with the right experience). get a decoy with a full bite suit on, walk your dog along there and have the guy(woman) come running at you firing a blank pistol with a liitle ScH stick and have him (or her!) whack YOU with the stick and threaten your dog. My guess is that you will soon find out if your dog would protect you.
> 
> maybe yes, maybe no!
> 
> ...


Codmaster, at what age should one expect to see protective behavior in this situation?



Whisper said:


> Good questions that I honestly don't really know how to answer. To go to the extreme examples, a friendly hug vs. a grab from behind and attempt at strangulation. Similar physical appearance, very different situations. "Suspicious" situations are situations that evoke wary emotional reactions. It's more of a "I know it when I see it" thing.
> 
> In another post you said something along the lines of us expecting too much from our dogs in regards to judging dangerous situations, since we aren't always good at noticing them, either. I disagree. I think dogs have a much keener instinct than ours. My dog, Millie, usually ignores people on our walks. However, there was one man who used to jog, and we ran into every once in a while. She would get her hackles up and bark and growl at him. Every single time we ran into him she would do that. I was wondering what on earth was wrong with my dog and why she would react like that to a stranger. One day I was looking at sex offenders in my area. On the map one was awfully close to me so I clicked on it. That man's face, clear as day. Repeat offender. You might disagree, but I don't think Millie's response and his disgusting record were a coincidence.
> I know you're looking for a concrete answer, but I can't get my head straight at the moment on the topic.
> ...


Ex husband had a Rottie. Step son had friends over on a daily basis that all played with the dog and knew him well. Boys were wrestling, Rottie bit one of the boys. The Rottie saw friendly horseplay as an attack. In essence, he saw a grab from behind when he should have seen a hug.

In the situatioin with the sex offender, IMO, there was no threat. You saw a man jogging and so did your dog. There was no other reason for you or her to view him as a threat. Your dog viewed it differently. Now if you see the man as a threat, and I don't, and your dog does, what do you think my dogs will think? 

I will stand by what I said earlier, I don't think dogs can reliably determine a threat from a nonthreat especially if people have such difficulty figuring it out.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

"Codmaster, at what age should one expect to see protective behavior in this situation?"

Could vary considerably - I had one male GSD who was a star in our local ScH club at 9mo. Hard as a rock with the decoy - never a backward (or even sideways step) - also never backed down from another dog that I saw. Just one tough dog!

Most of my others were anywhere from 18mo-2yo before they were really protective and were serious. The male above had an advantage of breeding - he was from an imported mother and his sire was top protection scoring protection dog in the Seiger show one year! I actually had one person in the club ask me "How do you get them to do that?" - my answer was "Breeding!"!


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I do not expect my dogs to defend the house. I don't know about the rest of you, but my "stuff" isn't all that great. My dogs are the most precious things I own. I couldn't stand it if they got hurt or killed defending my Regan-era television. 

As far as defending me, I expect my dogs to let me know when someone is on my property. I expect them to bark big loud scary barks that will scare of 99% of intruders. That's all. It would be nice if they could give me time to draw my gun.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I love the instincts my Ari shows. 
If someone walks down the street, he glances and then continues what he was doing.
If they walk near the house, he starts to patrol the fence line, just watching.
If they come up in the grass, he will bark. 
I imagine he might just bite an univited guest.

I can also tell "who" is here by his bark. Threatening stranger=vicious energetic barking. Friend/family=happy bark.

Now Akina, she barks at just about anything, but I doubt that she would ever engage someone.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

I just need her bark and she does so only during play or when someone's at the door. It's enough to scare someone away.

Honestly, I see too many people looking for those protective qualities when really, it's fear. I would prefer my dog to be the friendliest they can be. You can take them anywhere without worrying about biting a person who just wanted to carry a casual conversation. People get this misconception that FA is protection... :crazy:


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Dakoda is openly protective of our yard and me, and I know it isn't FA. I can take her anywhere and she is fine unless I let her know I am not comfortable or someone seems sketchy. I can also have people over and she is fine.
But she has attacked someone breaking into my home while I was sleeping (I woke up to it). It's not ALWAYS just FA. Depends on the dog.


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> It's not ALWAYS just FA. Depends on the dog.


Strongly agree.

Kids can go get my Ari out of the car at club training. He can hang out with people and be fine. Kissed by a toddler at Petsmart. But be a threat and it is another ballgame.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

If I've spent the dog's entire life time teaching him to follow my lead, why would it be so hard to believe that if I stayed to fight, so will my dog? Or if I fled the scene, so would my dog?

In my youth I had a GSD who was very friendly, rarely barked, never met a stranger, came with me everywhere, came on family vacations, was always in our pocket. One day at the neighborhood swimming pool I was jumped by a strange man who held me under the water attempting to remove my bathing suit bottoms. He didn't see my friend and GSD laying out on the other side of the pool house. My friend jumped into the pool to defend me, and the dog jumped into the pool and bit the man's face. Not a nip. She bit him. We fled leaving the screaming man holding his blood soaked face. 

How would this GSD who never showed she had an aggressive hair on her body, know to defend me? I was in the water (actually under the water). Could she have responded to my friend's fear? Could she have spotted the man lurking and we never saw him? She had no reason to react until there was a threat? I don't know. I'm glad she did. But it taught me that there is no correct answer to the question of will my dog protect me. I would hope nobody would ever have to find out.


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## LaneyB (Feb 5, 2012)

_So many people are saying that most dogs won't protect their owners in dangerous situations._

I can only speak for my yellow lab, and I know he would NOT protect us in dangerous situations. We had somebody break in back in January and take the TV right from the room he sleeps in, and he didn't bark or anything. In fact, if I know him, he probably licked the guy as he carried the TV away. I was just thankful the guy didn't leave the front door open, since it's a new house and Kipper isn't trained to not go out the door. 

I am hoping that my new german shepherd will bark if a stranger comes in the house during the night. That would be great. But I don't want or need the dog to protect us by attacking anyone (unless my teenage daughter is home alone, then it would be nice if the dog protects her). In fact, I would rather the dog bark and then we will handle it because I wouldn't want the dog hurt.


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I know there are alot of people that put all of their security in their dog to save the day and I am not of this mindset. I'm not a paranoid person and live my life but am aware that some people will do harm, the extent of that is endless unfortunately and really bad things happen to good people.

I'm married to someone who takes security very seriously and safeguards are in place. Some peoples own life experiences, occupation, etc. can dictate how they protect themselves whether it's at their own home or walking in a public parking lot. 

We got a dog because we are dog people, we got a GSD because we admire the breed and their characteristics. If he's a deterrent to someone who does not have good will towards our family and makes them think twice, this is an absolute plus. If he let's us know that something is not right and needs to be checked out by alert barking (which this I am confident he will do) another plus, if he physically engages someone who comes into our home uninvited and gives us time to react, outstanding. But I don't expect the last one from him and would not count on it, that's all.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I expect the dog to be what the standard say it should be.....standard says ears should stand....I expect them to stand....standard says how a GS show handle itself behavoirally....I expect it to be that way.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

I want a dog I do NOT have to worry about in public. We should be able to go to outdoor markets, fairs, trials, shops, parties, and he should be politely aloof. He should be accepting and tolerant of kids. He should THINK before reacting. He will be alert and watchful without fixating or triggering for no reason. He should watch and bark when requested and also stop on command. He should stand his ground and "fight" by carrying himself confidently and with purpose, communicating with very clear body language that he has nothing to prove and he will fight if called upon. Presence goes a long way. He will not be a snarling dervish on a leash, ears pinned back and every tooth showing and hackles bristling. 

So long as he is all that, I won't have to worry about the dog protecting me. So long as I do my best in finding a good combination of genetics, good training and socialization will take care of the rest. I never again want a dog that I cannot take in public without being ridiculously vigilant.


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## Pepper311 (Sep 11, 2011)

Kenny1988 said:


> How protective do you like your gsd to be? Any specific actions or behaviors that you like to see? I have a 5 month old and I'm waiting to see if she starts getting any protective instincts and what not... Just curious to what everyone else likes


My pit bull is pretty good. 99% of the time he loves everyone everyone is a friend. But if a stranger comes to the house he barks. If I feel scared he seances it and will be on guard. Yet he has never bit any human. 

My shep mix she is very shepherd. She is wary of strangers but warms up in no time. If someone she does not know starts to rough house with a kid she is on guard. The other day we had a friend over with his 3 year old son. Cookie had been sitting with Matt letting him hug her and being great. When Matt started rough housing with his 3 Yr old son cookie jumps up and did a bark growl. They stopped rough housing and cookie was fine. It was like she said "HEY don't you mess with that little boy." she looks out for kids and I love that since we have a 3 Yr old daughter. She barks at the door barks at the fence. She is a watch dog. If she gets to sniff them she is fine. 

My first dog was the kind of dog that never thought anyone was bad she was part lab. She would not even bark at the doorbell. But if I felt scared she would react. 

To me as long as my dog can tell if I am scared and has my back I am happy.


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## missmyrexy29 (Oct 19, 2011)

This is my storey and my Rex's storey.We got rex from a breeder in November 7,2009 not my idea my husband wanted a purebred german shepherd from a breeder atleast one time in his life since i'm the rescue friendly person in our family.there was a german shepherd mix at the spca that I wanted but it wasn't my husbands ideal shepherd dog, rex was.when we first brought him home our intentions was a family dog,a dog who got along with our kids and our kids friends which rex did he was always protecive with them.our ideal dog would let us know also if someone was coming in our house or yard and wasnt supposed to be there, he also did that for us.We wanted a dog who would grow up with our children and be there best friend,he was very close with my daughter!!.we did every thing right with him:trained him,gave him love and tough love my husband would give him he was the dog trainer in our house,we socialized him every day anytime we had parties he would be outside with us enjoying the bbq's and of coarse getting hotdogs too,we had him neutered,up to date with shots,his license.on October 7,2011 a neighbor 10 houses down stuck her head in my fence trying to give my dog a hug and kiss even though she didn't know him and he growled at first for her to back off of him I went running as soon as I heard him growl I was on my deck on the phone for a few min.trying to tell her to back up and grab my rexy about time I got to my fence which was 10 sec later he grabbed her by the throat,didn't kill her but she was rushed to the hospital and had 6 stiches because of what he did the animal control facility destroyed my rexy they wanted to sweep our case under the rug and move on.he had no bite history and never showed aggression before October 7,2011.my 3 year old daughter was next to rex when this happend so were assuming he was trying to protect his baby.The lady was in the process of suing us but ever since rexy's vet had to go to court she dropped the case.and now my family and I are in the process of researching suing the animal control facility for just sweeping him under the carpet maybe to them he was just a dog to us he was a family member who is missed by everyone.So please everyone keep your dog close and never say never it could happen that your baby bites too!!!.
Thanks Jenn


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

missmyrexy29 said:


> This is my storey and my Rex's storey.We got rex from a breeder in November 7,2009 not my idea my husband wanted a purebred german shepherd from a breeder atleast one time in his life since i'm the rescue friendly person in our family.there was a german shepherd mix at the spca that I wanted but it wasn't my husbands ideal shepherd dog, rex was.when we first brought him home our intentions was a family dog,a dog who got along with our kids and our kids friends which rex did he was always protecive with them.our ideal dog would let us know also if someone was coming in our house or yard and wasnt supposed to be there, he also did that for us.We wanted a dog who would grow up with our children and be there best friend,he was very close with my daughter!!.we did every thing right with him:trained him,gave him love and tough love my husband would give him he was the dog trainer in our house,we socialized him every day anytime we had parties he would be outside with us enjoying the bbq's and of coarse getting hotdogs too,we had him neutered,up to date with shots,his license.on October 7,2011 a neighbor 10 houses down stuck her head in my fence trying to give my dog a hug and kiss even though she didn't know him and he growled at first for her to back off of him I went running as soon as I heard him growl I was on my deck on the phone for a few min.trying to tell her to back up and grab my rexy about time I got to my fence which was 10 sec later he grabbed her by the throat,didn't kill her but she was rushed to the hospital and had 6 stiches because of what he did the animal control facility destroyed my rexy they wanted to sweep our case under the rug and move on.he had no bite history and never showed aggression before October 7,2011.my 3 year old daughter was next to rex when this happend so were assuming he was trying to protect his baby.The lady was in the process of suing us but ever since rexy's vet had to go to court she dropped the case.and now my family and I are in the process of researching suing the animal control facility for just sweeping him under the carpet maybe to them he was just a dog to us he was a family member who is missed by everyone.So please everyone keep your dog close and never say never it could happen that your baby bites too!!!.
> Thanks Jenn


I'm so sorry for your loss This story makes my stomach turn.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

codmaster said:


> Easy way to find out! - go to a local ScH or similar type club (or a pro trainer with the right experience). get a decoy with a full bite suit on, walk your dog along there and have the guy(woman) come running at you firing a blank pistol with a liitle ScH stick and have him (or her!) whack YOU with the stick and threaten your dog. My guess is that you will soon find out if your dog would protect you.
> 
> maybe yes, maybe no!
> 
> ...


That sounds like a very good way to test a dog's protective instincts. I wouldn't do this with my dog though, he is too uncomfortable with the outside world. 
I believe that his FA leads to his over protective manner, because he sees every "roudy" situation as a "dangerous" one. He is a completely different dog in the house than outside of the house; If I was being attacked ouside of my house and yard, I don't think Harley would protect me (I think he would either run away or bark from a distance). But for other GSDs with solid temperaments, I would like to think that they would protect their owner. 
I think it's sad that the GSD's temperament has changed (only if it was from being protective to not at all).


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Falkosmom said:


> No, I am not saying that you are wrong. What I am saying is that real life situations are not necessarily cut and dried, as the examples I posted. I am just saying that if you are on here asking questions, and I am, and so many others, and we can't decide, how can one truly expect a dog to decide what is threatening and what is not with any true degree of accuracy?


I don't know for a fact that the situations I posted were the exact situations in which a dog should be calm or alert. I just though that those sounded like pretty good examples. Of course, it would be different for different dogs. 
I, also, am asking these questions. I just gave my opinion.


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## vicky2200 (Oct 29, 2010)

I want Ditto to bark ( not a sissy bark, a real GSD bark) if she hears something close to the house or somebody comes to the door. I also want her to stop barking when I tell her enough. She has the first part down but still will bark a bit longer than I'd like if she isn't sure what the noise was or who is at the door. I would like to think that she would protect me but the only way to know is for her to need to protect me and I'd rather not have that happen


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## Shrap (Mar 4, 2011)

From around 5-6 months old Dino started being vigilant when outside. At the park he will watch the groups of hoodies and will change his position to stand directly between them and me. By around 8 months he became territorial, started barking when people come up the driveway etc. He's never shown aggression because I've never been in a dangerous situation. He shows promise at SchH though


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