# Coyote Issues?



## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Anyone have coyote issues in their area? What are your thoughts on what a coyote will go after? I have heard so many things. Most say they won't mess with a large dog or anything bigger than them or close to it. I also have heard when they are hungry they just might and that they do this by sending out a bait coyote to get it's prey to chase them and lead them to a pack where they kill it collectively. 

I live and have lived in somewhat urban areas, my last house had 1.5 acres and 3/4 of it were woods. My last two dogs came face to face with one in the middle of the day and the coyote seemed not phased and just sat there while they barked at it. Of course I called them in. I really didn't worry too much back then but I am worried a bit now.

My new house is in a very densely populated area and the coyotes live nearby in a park or a leaf and grass town dump. I can hear the babies at night. There is one that cuts though my yard and it looks to be about 80lbs. Looks very much like a dog. I have installed motion lights everywhere because I read they don't like lights and they scare them off. This morning while making my coffee at 4AM I noticed my shed spot light in the way back was on. I didn't see what triggered it, but immediately looked out front and it was walking down the sidewalk in front of the house. I have a tough layout to completely fence in the yard, but I am thinking about it. It's 50% fenced in now. It's cold here and when he needs to go out for the last poop of the night, I stand on the deck and watch him Of course he likes to poop in the way back were this coyote cuts through. My yard is lit up like Fenway Park when I let him out. He does his business and I call him right back in.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on coyotes and GSD's. Any experiences with confrontation? Attacks? Face to face? I have thought about taking measures into my own hands (and it wouldn't be hard) but I think it is illegal and I also have a problem with it.

Thoughts?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Frisco you are in new england? These are most likely coywolves you are seeing.

I don't think they would hunt or deliberately take on a dog the size of a GSD but if your dog chased it that could be a problem. If I were you I'd probably go with your dog and do last toilet on a leash.

Also it's hunting season here, don't know about you. I saw some guys unloading a dead one they'd shot about the size of my smaller shepherd. Right now I'm way more scared of the guys with guns than the animals themselves


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Frisco you are in new england? These are most likely coywolves you are seeing.
> 
> I don't think they would hunt or deliberately take on a dog the size of a GSD but if your dog chased it that could be a problem. If I were you I'd probably go with your dog and do last toilet on a leash.
> 
> Also it's hunting season here, don't know about you. I saw some guys unloading a dead one they'd shot about the size of my smaller shepherd. Right now I'm way more scared of the guys with guns than the animals themselves


Thanks, yes I am in NE. I think you are right about the coywolve, it certainly looks more like a wolf than a coyote. I'll try and post a picture. Unfortunately, I can't be shooting up the neighborhood, hunting season or not.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

An 80 lb coyote!?Usually they are half that size.There are coyotes here where I live and I've read the same kinds of stories.In my experience they will go after cats,small dogs,chickens.They give our property a wide berth and don't tangle with large dogs.I see their tracks in the snow and they never set foot(paw) across the property line where the dogs have it thoroughly marked on all four sides.If we spot one when we're out in the woods they take off in the opposite direction.
Right now during deer season a lot of folks that butcher their own deer will toss the leftover parts out on a corner of their property to attract coyotes so they can shoot them.And then complain about coyotes,foxes,raccoons,opposums,even an occasional bear that they are deliberately attracting.Makes no sense to me:headbang:


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

dogma13 said:


> An 80 lb coyote!?Usually they are half that size.There are coyotes here where I live and I've read the same kinds of stories.In my experience they will go after cats,small dogs,chickens.They give our property a wide berth and don't tangle with large dogs.I see their tracks in the snow and they never set foot(paw) across the property line where the dogs have it thoroughly marked on all four sides.If we spot one when we're out in the woods they take off in the opposite direction.
> Right now during deer season a lot of folks that butcher their own deer will toss the leftover parts out on a corner of their property to attract coyotes so they can shoot them.And then complain about coyotes,foxes,raccoons,opposums,even an occasional bear that they are deliberately attracting.Makes no sense to me:headbang:


Maybe not 80 lbs, but definitely bigger than Frisco who is 62lbs. I'm trying to find the picture.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Frisco19 said:


> Thanks, yes I am in NE. I think you are right about the coywolve, it certainly looks more like a wolf than a coyote. I'll try and post a picture. Unfortunately, I can't be shooting up the neighborhood, hunting season or not.


No I mean it's a dangerous time for dogs because of the hunters....


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Well, Im in urban NENJ and we are having issues. We have had like 5 confirmed bites this year on people, and quite a few dog attacks. Most medium/smaller dogs, however there was a confirmed attack on a Doberman and a few larger breeds. 


Popular local little mountain. It's not surprising there were coyotes there, it is surprising they attacked. 
https://www.nj.com/bergen/2019/10/2...cks-reported-in-nj-park-over-the-weekend.html

This one was stunning. If you knew the park, the mere fact there was a coyote in the bushes is very odd. It's a small urban surrounded by brick and mortar town. Was trying to rip the 4 year old child out of the stroller. THAT is bold. Cops shot it with an M4. 
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/14/us/coyote-attack-new-jersey-trnd/index.html

And then this lady:
https://www.northjersey.com/story/n...mahwah-nj-woman-fought-off-animal/1917142001/

These are just a few of the stories. Yes it is becoming an issue here in NJ.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

dogma13 said:


> An 80 lb coyote!?Usually they are half that size.There are coyotes here where I live and I've read the same kinds of stories.In my experience they will go after cats,small dogs,chickens.They give our property a wide berth and don't tangle with large dogs.I see their tracks in the snow and they never set foot(paw) across the property line where the dogs have it thoroughly marked on all four sides.If we spot one when we're out in the woods they take off in the opposite direction.
> Right now during deer season a lot of folks that butcher their own deer will toss the leftover parts out on a corner of their property to attract coyotes so they can shoot them.And then complain about coyotes,foxes,raccoons,opposums,even an occasional bear that they are deliberately attracting.Makes no sense to me:headbang:


I'd guess the ones I see are in the neighborhood of 50lb. A little taller than my smallest shepherd but lankier so I suspect weighing less than her. They are definitely wolfy looking

I've never gotten a picture but the ones I have seen look very much like this: Reddish, a little wolfier and bigger than a traditional coyote. I believe they also hunt in packs which coyotes don't really do?

https://images.app.goo.gl/ZcSGb5b6J9WQdNhDA


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## Rocky B. (Nov 1, 2019)

I live in the DFW area in Texas and we had some incidents in Frisco, TX where people will go run through a certain area and got attacked, biting peoples legs. I have not heard of any incidents recent.

A while back ago I was walking my other two dogs, small and medium size at like 7AM and there was this HUGE coyote walking towards us. My dogs were barking like crazy but it did not phase it. I did yelled at it and made a lot of noise too. At first I thought it was a stray dog, with long legs and really tall, def over 50 lbs. I live in an apartment so luckily I was close to our building where i quickly ran upstairs and it did not follow us...It was a really scary moment.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Here is a picture. Zoom in and you can get a sense of the size. Broad daylight in my neighborhood.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I'd guess the ones I see are in the neighborhood of 50lb. A little taller than my smallest shepherd but lankier so I suspect weighing less than her. They are definitely wolfy looking
> 
> I've never gotten a picture but the ones I have seen look very much like this: Reddish, a little wolfier and bigger than a traditional coyote. I believe they also hunt in packs which coyotes don't really do?
> 
> https://images.app.goo.gl/ZcSGb5b6J9WQdNhDA


It really varies. I've seen several coyotes go after a herd of deer one year, they got their butts kicked but they sure tried. We saw 3-4 coyotes but not sure if there were any more we didn't spot. 

Coyotes will definitely go after dogs of all sizes and cats. A lot of people will say the coyotes luring dogs is fake but enough people have seen it happen up around here. I don't know what all the coyote behavior is like on the east coast but there is wolf and dog DNA in many of the coyote populations, albeit in general a limited amount usually as they'll preferentially breed with other coyotes. I'm wondering how much the dog addition has attributed to their lack of fear of people over that way. In Montana most coyotes are very fearful of people but they're also usually used to getting shot at and we're still pretty rural so not the same type of issues with urban coyotes I don't think.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

That is a coyote or coyote-wolf in case you think it's a dog. Trust me.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Hey! Since I'm a wildlife biologist I feel like I can actually contribute something here! 

Not many people know that coyotes are not native to the eastern United States---that area was the habitat of the eastern timberwolf (north) and the red wolf (south). Both tend to be smaller than the western gray wolf. When European settlers trapped and poisoned and shot out all the wolves, coyotes slowly spread east to take over the niche. And now you have relict or reintroduced populations of eastern wolves and red wolves, and the invading coyotes are hybridizing with them. It's the main conservation threat to endangered red wolves and also the reason coyotes in the NE are huge and wolfy. 

Honestly, if I were you, I'd carry bear spray. In Montana canids of all types aren't usually a problem because hunting has put the fear of God into them; out east, sounds like they're becoming pretty comfortable living around humans and preying on pets. Bear spray isn't terribly expensive ($30/canister) and if it's effective on grizzly bears (which it is), it's probably effective on coyotes/coywolves.


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## Aly (May 26, 2011)

I'm south of you (DC) with lots of wooded areas throughout the city. Lots of wildlife too (e.g., deer, raccoons, rabbits, raptors, etc). Every 6 months or so, someone hysterically posts to the neighborhood listserv about the latest coyote sighting in their backyard. I've seen several myself, usually in the early AM hours when somebody has insisted that they need a bio break. Never seen them during the day. 

I don't know if they're coydogs or coywolves that I've seen, but they're bigger than the coyote that I'd regularly see in Northern California. Also, they are NOT shy. They'll hang around and watch us in the yard until we go back inside -- which coincides with what hysterical neighbors also have said. It's a little unnerving. For lots of reasons, I don't let the dogs outside unless I'm going out with them. If it's late or really early, I'll take some wasp spray with me just in case. If we're going on walkies after dark, I take the spray and I don't go to the large fields nearby. They're not lit, so I can't see. No attacks that I've heard of locally, but I stay wary.

Shrugs. We're invading their habitat and they've adapted. Best to take precautions.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Well the "myth" of Coydogs is rampant around here. Fish and game maintains they have not crossbred though they have failed to show any documented DNAs on any of them, but we have packs of wild dogs in the meadowlands and in the large cemeteries in Newark, and coyotes in the same habitat (if you can call a burned out cemetery a habitat) so I am not so sure they have truly looked into it. Typical animal behavior in a typical habitat is one thing. But animals thrust together in an atypical environment will break typical habit. 

The dogs that use to chase us in the swaps while we rode dirtbikes- they all looked like cartoon junkyard dogs. These are genuine poacks of feral dogs. They den and everything. There are also a lot of coyotes in those same meadowlands. 

And the ones in Woodland Cemetery in Newark ..well, some of them looked way funny to be just a dog. There are confirmed coyotes and stray dogs that live in that cemetery. Once a year they have "Safe Day" at that cemetery. They go in and they round up the dogs and coyotes, pick up all the left drug paraphernalia, relocate the homeless who live there..and police it well for just one day so people who relatives there can visit without getting bitten, mugged, or worse. 

What the researchers and Fish and Game say and what is, is not always the same thing. I am trying to find an article of a resident that caught a mountain lion on their trail cam..after like a decade of tons of sightings being dismissed.

An article on the cemetery in case anyone is interested. 
https://www.nj.com/njv_barry_carter/2010/07/self-appointed_woodland_cemete.html


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Also in general Canis genetics are like....SUPER complicated and weird, and there's still debate about the origins of North American canid species. And debate about whether the red wolf deserves to be an endangered species or is just a locally adapted subspecies of coyote. 

Thus ends your pointless wildlife taxonomy lesson of the day.  Thanks for making me feel useful!


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> Here is a picture. Zoom in and you can get a sense of the size. Broad daylight in my neighborhood.


Wow! Right there in the middle of a dense neighborhood during day. The coyotes I dealt with in Texas were basically as shy as a fox. I only ever saw them slinking away though I did hear reports of attacks. I know they are here in Michigan but I haven’t seen one near my property. 

Regular coyotes, I would think wouldn’t be a problem for a GSD but that creature looks large and bold. Beautiful too. I would be concerned about that beast in my yard at night. Motion sensor lights sound like a good idea for coyotes but that beauty doesn’t seem concerned with light. I like the bear spray idea and stepping out with Frisco at night.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

CometDog said:


> Well the "myth" of Coydogs is rampant around here. Fish and game maintains they have not crossbred though they have failed to show any documented DNAs on any of them, but we have packs of wild dogs in the meadowlands and in the large cemeteries in Newark, and coyotes in the same habitat (if you can call a burned out cemetery a habitat) so I am not so sure they have truly looked into it. Typical animal behavior in a typical habitat is one thing. But animals thrust together in an atypical environment will break typical habit.
> 
> The dogs that use to chase us in the swaps while we rode dirtbikes- they all looked like cartoon junkyard dogs. These are genuine poacks of feral dogs. They den and everything. There are also a lot of coyotes in those same meadowlands.
> 
> ...


Yes that's very true, although they do have documented cases of dog DNA in some urban coyote populations and there are also some colors showing up that are pretty obviously introduced by the dogs. 

In Montana with the wolf re-introduction they have places where wolves are and places where they aren't. FWP will say there aren't wolves in areas that there are most definitely wolves as it seems that unless they've seen them then they aren't there officially.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

CeraDean said:


> Wow! Right there in the middle of a dense neighborhood during day. The coyotes I dealt with in Texas were basically as shy as a fox. I only ever saw them slinking away though I did hear reports of attacks. I know they are here in Michigan but I haven’t seen one near my property.
> 
> Regular coyotes, I would think wouldn’t be a problem for a GSD but that creature looks large and bold. Beautiful too. I would be concerned about that beast in my yard at night. Motion sensor lights sound like a good idea for coyotes but that beauty doesn’t seem concerned with light. I like the bear spray idea and stepping out with Frisco at night.


Right? This thing walks down the sidewalk like it owns it. Mostly at night. I'd like to take matters into my own hands but it would be an inhumane method.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

There's a ton of info in the forum archives about coyote and dog interactions -- we've had some good info posted in those past threads:



https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/640002-coyotes-vs-dogs.html


https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/723434-can-coyote-kill-grown-gsd.html


https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/141976-coyotes-vs-gsd.html


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

When the dominant female is killed, the other females within the group (that normally would not breed) all disperse, go into estrus during the next season, and the population skyrockets. Instead of one local litter (dominant breeding pair), there will be three or four or more. 

Every year in early winter I cross my fingers that none of our neighbors decide to off the pair that live along our property. They've long since given up trying to get into my animal pens, the indoor/outdoor cats avoid their space, and the coyotes stay the heck away from my dogs. I see them on our security cameras, their routines are predictable. Some day when this pair is broken up or gone, I expect we will see more of their young replacements for a while, until we reach respectful equilibrium again.

Statistically, one coyote gets killed every minute in the US. And their numbers are growing.... not declining.

They are fascinating animals. This book is worth a winter read.... https://www.amazon.com/Coyote-America-Natural-Supernatural-History/dp/0465052991 

Fencing (real fencing), hazing, carcass/trash control, and extremely careful containment of outdoor animals (poultry, cats, etc) are the time-tested solutions. We've had a few verified attacks on small dogs in our area, and the increase in public awareness seems to be a mixed blessing/curse.

Coydogs are a whole different ball of wax.... It doesn't seem like anyone really knows where that runaway train is heading, but I guess we'll be around to watch and see.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Anyone else want to weigh in on my picture? Not your average mangy coyote so must be some wolf in it.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Frisco19 said:


> Right? This thing walks down the sidewalk like it owns it. Mostly at night. I'd like to take matters into my own hands but it would be an inhumane method.


Or maybe one of those super loud boat horns. If Frisco gets close to the invader, I’d hate to have Frisco sprayed too. Maybe the loud noise would scare the invader away without risking Frisco.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Then this just popped in my news feed in my area. This is not typical lol
https://www.nj.com/essex/2019/11/fo...75BVkuvSDoMrJNugFzX6ltHGhY8TccpmAkk3vTI_6CzSo

It has been a weird weather/animal year around here. I have lived here my whole life and the cycles this year are just off. Other have noticed too. I'm sure it has to do with a weird weather pattern. Wildlife encounters are way up this year. Also insect population is "off" In all my life here the sugar ants show up in may and are gone by end of June. This year? End of October. Bizarre. They went away for like 3 weeks but then came back full force August until October. That has NEVER happened. And the cicadas that come out in late july and hang around until august were also in full force through October. What the heck? Latest I have even heard them around here was maybe 2nd week of September. And it was a dwindled few still singing. This year they were in force until beginning of October and didn't dwindle until like 3 weeks in. 

Also, this year..brand new types of rampant weeds in my yard, others have experienced same. They are like..vines and small trees. It's my 3rd summer that just past in the same house (but in town my whole life) and these weirdo weeds were NOT here the 1st two seasons.

And the stinkbugs didn't come this year. That has never happened either around these parts. 

But yeah, beware the jabberwocky (fox lol)


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

CometDog said:


> And the stinkbugs didn't come this year. That has never happened either around these parts.


It's because your stinkbugs are moving HERE....  They're following our interstate corridors, spreading north and taking over. 

It has absolutely been a bizarre year for insect & plant cycles. I'm kinda curious to see how everyone does during gun deer season this year... The wolf population is way up, so that has kind of overshadowed complaints about coyotes, recently.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Oh! We also are seeing a record number of "Stunned Sea Turtles" syndrome on our beaches. People are finding them every day along the NJ shore. Record year. I think the water stayed warmer than usual later than then suddenly got very cold. Instead of gradually. They basically wash up in a hibernation type shutdown because the cold catches them offguard. They can be saved if you get them to fish and game quickly enough.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Frisco19 said:


> Anyone else want to weigh in on my picture? Not your average mangy coyote so must be some wolf in it.


No way to tell without a DNA test.They do get larger when they are well fed and the cubs are larger.DNR or AC might be interested in trying to live trap it?
I've read about them and have seen a documentary on YouTube about urban coyotes.They regulate their own population depending on available prey to sustain a certain number of their population.Killing them has zero effect,just leaves more food for the other ones which results in more larger healthier cubs.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

canceled


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Frisco19 said:


> Here is a picture. Zoom in and you can get a sense of the size. Broad daylight in my neighborhood.


Are you sure this is not a buckskin horse?


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> Are you sure this is not a buckskin horse?


Yes and I don't even know what that is. It's a Coydog/wolf for sure. Been researching all morning. Very common here. I saw it up close this morning. It's a coyote/dog/wolf. It's really pretty.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

wolfy dog said:


> Are you sure this is not a buckskin horse?



:rofl: I see a buckskin too.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Given how heavy that animal is, no tummy tuck, no ribs showing, very heavy,solid structure, my guess is it's someone's pet. Wild animals are never overweight, and that thing, whatever it is, is!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

We have a pack of coy-wolves that live in the woods I run my dogs daily. They leave messages (scat and urine) for my pack but for the most part stay well out of our way. I have a "pack" of intact animals, and they seem to respect that. I have seen them several times- big beautiful animals abou the size of mine- 70 lbs or so probably. 

I leave them be. They've never bothered me, my dogs, or my chickens. They are incredible resilient creatures that I have deep respect for, and appreciate seeing around. Basically, wolves have moved back into New England, right into the cities, and few people realize it. The apex predator spot has to go to some critter, and coys-mixes have taken that spot up.


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## Koda'sMom (Feb 13, 2013)

We have large packs of coyotes around here but hardly ever see them. That said, the few I have seen were about the size of a border collie maybe a bit taller. We live very rural so if one becomes a problem we just "take care of it". Ours tend to range a lot. Will hear them nightly for a few days then nothing for a couple of weeks and then back again for a few days etc. They're shy creatures in these parts.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I've heard coyotes for years. And yes, they are coyotes in PA. In 30 years living there, we've only ever seen one near us.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Deja and the coyotes communicate with scat and pee. Deja licks the scat and pees over it when it's fresh and after that, checks it every day. I wish I could see them sometimes. Never hear them either, our elusive wild friends.


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## elf5 (Mar 31, 2019)

I have seen one in my backyard around 12 pm by itself. It was big, bigger than ones I've seen before. I was at the Wolf Hollow in Ipswich and they said exactly what someone mentioned above. They are a wolf/coyote hybrid, I did't want my shepherd running through the woods out back and didn't want coyotes killing my yorkie poos, so I installed a fence. People post them all day long on Ring walking in neighborhoods and yards. They definitely are not afraid to be around people.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Kazel said:


> In Montana with the wolf re-introduction they have places where wolves are and places where they aren't. FWP will say there aren't wolves in areas that there are most definitely wolves as it seems that unless they've seen them then they aren't there officially.


Hey now!  We're actually using a new method to estimate wolf populations using Patch Occupancy Modeling. And it's based on reports from the public, plus harvest reports and FWP monitoring, not JUST FWP monitoring. Used to be, we'd try to put at least one collar in every wolf pack and do periodic flights to get counts of pack size, plus pup counts and snowtracking of packs that didn't have a collar in them. All in all, pretty effective--but EXPENSIVE like whoa. Now that wolves aren't federally protected there's much less funding for FWP to manage them (i.e. determine pack sizes and locations), so they're going to POM. 

I know there's this stigma out there that FWP keeps things close to the chest but I can assure you, there's no reason we would lie about where wolves are or aren't. We just need data. I feel like we're super transparent about what data we have; we're not trying to hide anything. Like with grizzlies now, people accuse us all the time of denying grizzlies live in the Bitterroot and then when one was caught there last year, everyone was like "SEE?!" But really if we'd had any evidence, we would have publicized it. People "see" griz all the time but never bring us evidence (like a scat sample, hair, or a picture of a pawprint) that would help us confirm it, and as there are soooooo many brown colored black bears, I can't just take someone's word for it. 

My rule of thumb is that if you live in western Montana, anywhere you go you're likely within the home range of at least one mountain lion and a wolf pack, and that though many places don't have confirmed breeding griz populations, it doesn't mean individual griz don't come over from time to time (and so people should be careful...). 

Sorry for tangent....


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

banzai555 said:


> Hey now!  We're actually using a new method to estimate wolf populations using Patch Occupancy Modeling. And it's based on reports from the public, plus harvest reports and FWP monitoring, not JUST FWP monitoring. Used to be, we'd try to put at least one collar in every wolf pack and do periodic flights to get counts of pack size, plus pup counts and snowtracking of packs that didn't have a collar in them. All in all, pretty effective--but EXPENSIVE like whoa. Now that wolves aren't federally protected there's much less funding for FWP to manage them (i.e. determine pack sizes and locations), so they're going to POM.
> 
> I know there's this stigma out there that FWP keeps things close to the chest but I can assure you, there's no reason we would lie about where wolves are or aren't. We just need data. I feel like we're super transparent about what data we have; we're not trying to hide anything. Like with grizzlies now, people accuse us all the time of denying grizzlies live in the Bitterroot and then when one was caught there last year, everyone was like "SEE?!" But really if we'd had any evidence, we would have publicized it. People "see" griz all the time but never bring us evidence (like a scat sample, hair, or a picture of a pawprint) that would help us confirm it, and as there are soooooo many brown colored black bears, I can't just take someone's word for it.
> 
> ...


You can ID a griz from a picture of a footprint from that of a black bear?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Frisco19 said:


> Yes and I don't even know what that is. It's a Coydog/wolf for sure. Been researching all morning. Very common here. I saw it up close this morning. It's a coyote/dog/wolf. It's really pretty.


I watched a documentary on them, really fascinating. They live and thrive in urban areas and a lot of people don't even know they are there. And I know they said that they did have coyote, dog, and wolf DNA


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

banzai555 said:


> Hey now!  We're actually using a new method to estimate wolf populations using Patch Occupancy Modeling. And it's based on reports from the public, plus harvest reports and FWP monitoring, not JUST FWP monitoring. Used to be, we'd try to put at least one collar in every wolf pack and do periodic flights to get counts of pack size, plus pup counts and snowtracking of packs that didn't have a collar in them. All in all, pretty effective--but EXPENSIVE like whoa. Now that wolves aren't federally protected there's much less funding for FWP to manage them (i.e. determine pack sizes and locations), so they're going to POM.
> 
> I know there's this stigma out there that FWP keeps things close to the chest but I can assure you, there's no reason we would lie about where wolves are or aren't. We just need data. I feel like we're super transparent about what data we have; we're not trying to hide anything. Like with grizzlies now, people accuse us all the time of denying grizzlies live in the Bitterroot and then when one was caught there last year, everyone was like "SEE?!" But really if we'd had any evidence, we would have publicized it. People "see" griz all the time but never bring us evidence (like a scat sample, hair, or a picture of a pawprint) that would help us confirm it, and as there are soooooo many brown colored black bears, I can't just take someone's word for it.
> 
> ...



The wolves are over on the eastern side that I'm talking about, a couple people I know called and talked to FWP about it and were basically just told there aren't any wolves over there. I'm not trying to knock FWP per say or say you guys are trying to hide anything, but there are some odd things. Don't know if it's FWP or other organizations but when taking population counts of species some people have to do by area not by animal so the same animal may be counted several times. And yes I know you guys would need proof and I understand funding but people will get outright told no in some cases.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> You can ID a griz from a picture of a footprint from that of a black bear?


Usually, yes. The line of toes tends to curve around the heel pad for black bears, but grizzlies don't--for griz tracks, you can almost draw a straight line under all the toes. Lots of pics if you do a google image search.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

There were coyote attacks on people and dogs in my area this year around apr may june. So many stories I was afraid to walk my dog at 530am. as one attack on yorkie happened at 4am. Coyote ran off with...owner caught up at his house and dog was running around in shock. Coyote swooped in and grabbed again. His house mates ran to help..RR tracks friend sees coyote and starts throwing rocks at it. Coyote released 4lb yorkie...dog ran to friend. 1200 in vet bills.
He went around doing public service announcement tellin anyone with dogs and pets. He still has dog. It was off leash.


However there were a number of reported stories of being stalked chased etc. One couple were stalked on overpass, guy reported he could literally kick it in head was so close...this on an afternoon walk.


FF, I had to go to hospital one night as felt my back was going to spasm. 10 mins a girl comes in with her father and her friend. Bite marks to calf. Tissue hanging out, not terrible, but still.
She and friend had gone to taco bell and were crossing RR tracks (4 km approx. from other attack on yorkie)...holding food, 2 came up, 1 scared off but the other went right up to her and started sniffing. She froze. Then the bugger chomped her calf.
While doing her intake, her story to nurse, nurse replied...another coyote attack, this is the 10th one this month.
Small hospital, small town...10x in one month Wow 


I had to walk home at 2am, I was terrified


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

May need Ring to view this. 


Just saw this on Neighbors: https://neighbors.ring.com/n/PP2Er

This from my front door cam. Not great quality. Should have got the high def camera. 

https://ring.com/share/6761305867214035131

Very healthy looking animal. Coy-wolf. In my neighborhood.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

Second link from my cam was the wrong one. Here it is walking down the street at 12:15 AM. 

https://ring.com/share/6761253146490476731


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

Coyotes have always been around. The encroachment into urban areas (due to ours into their areas) has been escalating steadily over a long time. I guess the main topic is more their change of behavior. They seem to be shedding their typical shyness. Could just be habituation to people. But, it seems to be happening in more rural areas too. Either that or you just hear about it more due to internet sharing ability.


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## Arathorn II (Oct 7, 2017)

Rocky B. said:


> I live in the DFW area in Texas and we had some incidents in Frisco, TX where people will go run through a certain area and got attacked, biting peoples legs. I have not heard of any incidents recent.
> 
> A while back ago I was walking my other two dogs, small and medium size at like 7AM and there was this HUGE coyote walking towards us. My dogs were barking like crazy but it did not ph
> ase it. I did yelled at it and made a lot of noise too. At first I thought it was a stray dog, with long legs and really tall, def over 50 lbs. I live in an apartment so luckily I was close to our building where i quickly ran upstairs and it did not follow us...It was a really scary moment.


About two years ago when part of my shift included working on the weekends I saw 2 bobcats in Frisco - https://www.facebook.com/jarl.jackson.9/videos/10214301608075936/


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

My neighbors cat was carried off by a coyote while she watched from her window and couldn’t do a thing to get to it in time. She could hear her cat screaming. I saw one on the edge of a busy shopping parking lot when I was driving by. We were mainly worried it might be rabid to be so brazen in the middle of the day, but apparently that is common now. Then I was walking my older dog, who is on the small side for a GSD and has a coyote look about her, and another neighbor insisted she was part coyote. She said many neighbors who share a run off ditch behind their houses had lost cats to a coyote that runs along it at night and snatches them from backyards. I think I convinced her mine was a dog and was never running around loose at night.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

banzai555 said:


> Hey now!  We're actually using a new method to estimate wolf populations using Patch Occupancy Modeling. And it's based on reports from the public, plus harvest reports and FWP monitoring, not JUST FWP monitoring. Used to be, we'd try to put at least one collar in every wolf pack and do periodic flights to get counts of pack size, plus pup counts and snowtracking of packs that didn't have a collar in them. All in all, pretty effective--but EXPENSIVE like whoa. Now that wolves aren't federally protected there's much less funding for FWP to manage them (i.e. determine pack sizes and locations), so they're going to POM.
> 
> I know there's this stigma out there that FWP keeps things close to the chest but I can assure you, there's no reason we would lie about where wolves are or aren't. We just need data. I feel like we're super transparent about what data we have; we're not trying to hide anything. Like with grizzlies now, people accuse us all the time of denying grizzlies live in the Bitterroot and then when one was caught there last year, everyone was like "SEE?!" But really if we'd had any evidence, we would have publicized it.* People "see" griz all the time but never bring us evidence (like a scat sample, hair, or a picture of a pawprint) that would help us confirm it, and as there are soooooo many brown colored black bears, I can't just take someone's word for it*.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for others, but when I've come across grizzly in north Idaho I generally leave them them be and go about on my merry way. I'm not collecting poo or searching for photo worthy foot prints, lol! 

I tried once to report a grizzly close to a popular trail head only to be met with "you saw the cinnamon phase of a black bear". Yeah ok, signs posted at every trail head or dispersed camp site asking for sightings to be reported then instantly be dismissive? lesson learned, don't bother. Oddly enough the bear I saw was indeed a grizzly. It was darted/collared, should have named him too, Cinnamon has a nice ring to it.


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## banzai555 (Sep 2, 2019)

Nigel said:


> I can't speak for others, but when I've come across grizzly in north Idaho I generally leave them them be and go about on my merry way. I'm not collecting poo or searching for photo worthy foot prints, lol!
> 
> I tried once to report a grizzly close to a popular trail head only to be met with "you saw the cinnamon phase of a black bear". Yeah ok, signs posted at every trail head or dispersed camp site asking for sightings to be reported then instantly be dismissive? lesson learned, don't bother. Oddly enough the bear I saw was indeed a grizzly. It was darted/collared, should have named him too, Cinnamon has a nice ring to it.



My response when people tell me they've seen a grizzly is, I ask if they have evidence (usually no), I ask questions about the encounter. I say the odds are good it was a brown phase black bear (we have SOOOOOOOOOOO MANY) but that it's certainly possible it was a griz, and that it's a good rule of thumb for hunters/hikers to always be prepared for bear encounters of any kind. Then I go report the sighting to the bear management specialist, who has access to collar data and makes the decision whether to visit the site and look for evidence or put up a trail cam.


We also keep track of bear sightings at my check station. If I get 2-3 purported sightings in an area, then the odds are better that it was indeed a grizzly. So....please "bother"! It's not fair to those of us who are really trying to keep tabs on things.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

banzai555 said:


> My response when people tell me they've seen a grizzly is, I ask if they have evidence (usually no), I ask questions about the encounter. I say the odds are good it was a brown phase black bear (we have SOOOOOOOOOOO MANY) but that it's certainly possible it was a griz, and that it's a good rule of thumb for hunters/hikers to always be prepared for bear encounters of any kind. Then I go report the sighting to the bear management specialist, who has access to collar data and makes the decision whether to visit the site and look for evidence or put up a trail cam.
> 
> 
> We also keep track of bear sightings at my check station. If I get 2-3 purported sightings in an area, then the odds are better that it was indeed a grizzly. So....please "bother"! It's not fair to those of us who are really trying to keep tabs on things.


Glad you at least ask questions and collect the info. I spoke with two guys in a Idaho Fish/game truck, one was a warden who did ask the basics, the other a biologist based out of Utah, not sure why he was in N Idaho and didn't ask. It was the latter that was instantly dismissive. The warden at least acknowledged grizzlys were in the area. 

You're correct, most bears I've come across are black bears and at times some bears I cannot positively ID, but on a rare occasions I do see a grizzly with a high degree of certainty. 

I do make mistakes, last year I thought I saw a small black bear jumping from the river into dense brush, It happened quickly and my son thought the same. Short time later the black shape emerged again down stream from us only now we could clearly see it was a wolf, not even the same species so yup easy to mis-identify critters at a glimpse. That's not always the case though some bears don't run and are close enough to clearly ID.


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

Interesting tread! the pictures of the coyotes and the Bobcats, they all looked pretty comfortable in their surroundings! We live kinda rural and have seen coyotes and bobcats from time to time, not real often! About a week ago I saw in the police reports in the paper (small town newspaper!) that someone had called in on a bobcat in the woods behind our house, I put up my trail cam but nothing so far! Lol! But like said, we are pushing them out of their space with more building going on. Once I saw a bobcat crossing the road and swear it had a collar on! Would that be anything the wildlife department would have put on? I was thinking surely that's not a pet!


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## readaboutdogs (Jul 8, 2001)

Sorry for double post when I added the last two sentences!


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

We have coyotes around here. They do not bother anyone although they occasionally bother livestock. I went to let the dogs out one morning about 6 months ago and there was a cute little pup sitting in the back of the yard. As a puppy, I figure he was looking for someone to play with. Someone takes the tennis balls, freebees and other assorted toys and stashes them in the woods. I just waited until he left and haven't seen him since. About a year ago Elke was absolutely over the moon because a boy (presumably) was outside the bedroom window singing to her one night. I don't mind them, they keep the rodent population down and don't bother us. Now,cougars are another thing...


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I once called the coyotes with my Native American Flute, imitating their rhythm and they answered!! That was surreal and awesome. I admire them; the way they trot so lightly, so elusive and witty.


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

I’m a hunter and have been around lots of coyotes. They get pretty confident when in a pack. If hungry and presented the opportunity they would certainly kill a dog however I’d say in 95% of cases they wouldn’t try it due to the hassle


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

wolfy dog said:


> I once called the coyotes with my Native American Flute, imitating their rhythm and they answered!! That was surreal and awesome. I admire them; the way they trot so lightly, so elusive and witty.


I do an imitation howl and they howl back, they sure can be intimidating at night


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

CatMan900 said:


> I do an imitation howl and they howl back, they sure can be intimidating at night


I once woke up (window open) from a coyote howling right under the window. It is ear piercing and the best sound from the forest,


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

A couple of weeks ago heard them going at it in the woods. Sounded like they were killing something right in the backyard. Then went silent. Assume the thing died and they were feasting.


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

eddie1976E said:


> A couple of weeks ago heard them going at it in the woods. Sounded like they were killing something right in the backyard. Then went silent. Assume the thing died and they were feasting.


They usually do a celebratory howl and cackle right after a kill, coyotes and wolves are just so incredible to me. That’s really what drew me to want a gsd because this breed is about as close as you can get to a domesticated dog like that. Obviously the husky too but they have a different temperament


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

CatMan900 said:


> They usually do a celebratory howl and cackle right after a kill, coyotes and wolves are just so incredible to me. That’s really what drew me to want a gsd because this breed is about as close as you can get to a domesticated dog like that. Obviously the husky too but they have a different temperament


Didn't give all the details, it really sounded like they were killing a dog...but not sure. Sounded like a dog was screatching. but could have just been the coyotes


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## CatMan900 (May 24, 2018)

eddie1976E said:


> CatMan900 said:
> 
> 
> > They usually do a celebratory howl and cackle right after a kill, coyotes and wolves are just so incredible to me. That’s really what drew me to want a gsd because this breed is about as close as you can get to a domesticated dog like that. Obviously the husky too but they have a different temperament
> ...


Oh!!!! I hope it wasn’t someone’s dog! To the OP you have to think that coyotes in a pack can kill deer, bobcat, even young bears... so they could easily kill a dog if they wanted. The key is if they want to... it would likely be more a territorial thing or if your dog was off leash in the woods type of thing. I doubt they would try to eat your dog based on hunger unless it was mid winter and they were starving and your dog was unsupervised


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## Pet Watson (Oct 24, 2019)

I have been reading with interest. I am currently without and GSD, thought my desire to find one brought me to this site. I live in southern Ontario Canada. We bought a 40 acre farm a year ago and moved here to an area with a high population of Coywolves ( and I bet some of them are easily 80lbs or better). I have seen them here on the farm mid day only a short distance away (20 feet maybe, maybe less). We have shot 3 or 4, as they like to come right up to the house. I have a 90lb large male greyhound. His presence does not stop them coming round at all. Thought he marks high up on the trees and bushes, the coywolves don't seem to be swayed by it. I never leave the dog unattended outside at all, because of the coywolves. I am hoping if I get a GSD once it is grown I can walk the back of the farm which is all bush without the fear of the coywolves. I dunno though...so far they are bold and fearless...and I don't like them at all.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

We live five miles from downtown Cincinnati. Our neighborhood is bordered in part by a deep ravine. No creek, but it can get some water puddles when it is wet weather. Very wooded, and steep enough the neighborhood kids don't go in it. Lately, we have a large number of coyote sightings. Despite being in city limits, over 18 years, we have seen a few deer, countless rabbits until lately,, a couple of foxes, and occasional raccoons and possums. 
\
Around Thanksgiving, we saw a coyote cross a major street, and trot (he was not sprinting, as you often see with foxes) into a park in broad daylight. I never hear them, but when windows are open at night, the neighbors bordering the ravine say they hear them and their pups (higher pitch) howling and crying frequently. 

Sometime this week, a coyote took a small dog, about the size of a Pomeranian. The owner had let her two dogs out in an un-fenced yard to go pee around 6 AM. Other neighbors heard a ruckus in the ravine around that time. The owner went down into the ravine, which is not easy to get in and out of, and it would have been still pretty dark. Just earlier, I told another neighbor I thought the coyotes may have moved on, because after not seeing rabbits for months, I saw two rabbits in two days. Definitely keeping our 5 mo. old under supervision to go out. 

The ones we see are about the height of a normal sized GSD, but thinner.


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## wm97 (Dec 13, 2018)

It depends, but they will definitely attack and tgr


Frisco19 said:


> Anyone have coyote issues in their area?
> 
> Thoughts?


I have packs of coyotes all around my house (44 acres in the forest.) Coyotes tried to kill a smaller dog (40-50 pounds) in the front yard. They ran off when my daughter's bigger dog (80 pounds) ran over and quickly and casually snapped a coyote's neck and left him laying there dead. They will attack a larger dog if there are enough of them. There were five of them outside the fence the other day showing no particular fear of either of my larger than normal GSDs. 

They are often a pest and it is open season on them in my area any time of the year, in any place that is safe to shoot. They have their benefits in controlling vermin but they can be dangerous to small animals and there can be too many of them. Also, in suburban areas they often exhibit no fear of humans. 

You can't shoot them in town to give them proper respect for distance, but you can hit them with a pellet gun. I would suggest a .22 air rifle, with a scope, with a muzzle velocity around 1,000 FPS. Learn to use it well before you try. They have to learn that you are not a constant source for food and that humans are a danger. A pellet in the hind quarters will do it in a way that will give them pain but won't kill them and is legal in most areas. 

Expect to see your neighbors lose a cat or two and don't be surprised if a coyote ignores you when you tell it to leave. After living in the forest for several years I have seen that animals understand very well the areas where you can or cannot pull the trigger on them.


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## wm97 (Dec 13, 2018)

Pet Watson said:


> I have been reading with interest. I am currently without and GSD, thought my desire to find one brought me to this site. I live in southern Ontario Canada. We bought a 40 acre farm a year ago and moved here to an area with a high population of Coywolves ( and I bet some of them are easily 80lbs or better). I have seen them here on the farm mid day only a short distance away (20 feet maybe, maybe less). We have shot 3 or 4, as they like to come right up to the house. I have a 90lb large male greyhound. His presence does not stop them coming round at all. Thought he marks high up on the trees and bushes, the coywolves don't seem to be swayed by it. I never leave the dog unattended outside at all, because of the coywolves. I am hoping if I get a GSD once it is grown I can walk the back of the farm which is all bush without the fear of the coywolves. I dunno though...so far they are bold and fearless...and I don't like them at all.


If there are packs of coyotes, they will not respect your GSD. They can overwhelm other animals fairly easily. As bad as it sounds, the key is to kill enough of them that they tell their friends that it is a zone of death. That could be a number in the dozens. Otherwise, expect to see them on the front porch.


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## wm97 (Dec 13, 2018)

CeraDean said:


> Wow! Right there in the middle of a dense neighborhood during day. The coyotes I dealt with in Texas were basically as shy as a fox. I only ever saw them slinking away though I did hear reports of attacks. I know they are here in Michigan but I haven’t seen one near my property.
> 
> Regular coyotes, I would think wouldn’t be a problem for a GSD but that creature looks large and bold. Beautiful too. I would be concerned about that beast in my yard at night. Motion sensor lights sound like a good idea for coyotes but that beauty doesn’t seem concerned with light. I like the bear spray idea and stepping out with Frisco at night.


Coyotes in urban areas are pretty common in lots of places in Southern California. It doesn't get anyone's attention until there is a mountain lion laying out by the swimming pool.


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## wm97 (Dec 13, 2018)

Frisco19 said:


> Right? This thing walks down the sidewalk like it owns it. Mostly at night. I'd like to take matters into my own hands but it would be an inhumane method.


It's a choice between "inhumane" and "my dog or maybe some kid gets killed or seriously injured"? Hmmm, let me think this over. 

As Aretha Franklin said, everything needs to know R-E-S-P-E-C-T. .22 air rifle, scope, 1,000 FPS muzzle velocity or better. Not even really inhumane.


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## Kathrynil (Dec 2, 2019)

Yah, i totally agree with Banzai555 about carrying bear spray. It'll help a lot in case of trouble. I don't know if this will help, but here's a couple articles on coyotes in the neighborhood and what to do:





__





How to Protect Your Pet from Coyotes | PetMD


News headlines have highlighted the tragedy that can unfold if a hungry coyote crosses paths with a small, unattended pet. But how common are coyote attacks in urban and suburban areas? Find out whether coyotes are a danger to pets and how to keep your pets safe.



www.petmd.com













Urban Coyotes – Keeping Your Pets Safe


Attacks and bites wounds aren’t the only danger coyotes pose to your cats and dogs. Tips on how to coexist with the coyotes in your neighborhood.




www.preventivevet.com





Just in case you need some info.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Yesterday on our hike the wind was blowing 50 + mph as wife and I walked Zoe and Remi along the edge of a hill top. Not many trees obscuring the view, just long grass. I caught movement coming up the hillside to my left and spotted a very healthy coyote with his nose to the ground and no idea he was on a collision course with us. It looked like it was almost as big as Zoe and she's 70lbs, I'm sure it was mostly winter coat though. I tapped my wife on the shoulder and pointed it out which with the close proximity ended up surprising her more than I anticipated. The coyote caught on to our presence and chose another route while i got an earful about giving a proper heads up. Zoe and Remi did great though.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

Mostly through word of mouth from a reliable neighbor, and my knowledge of the dog that got taken, here's what appears to have happened in the Cincinnati attack mentioned above:
Owner is prone to leave their dogs off leash, and although she has a little circular pen for them, they were not in it when the attack occurred. The owner has two small dogs, and both will chase after other dogs when they are out. They usually don't stray from the sidewalk. Their house backs up to the wooded ravine where coyote activity (mostly howls and sounds a den with crying pups) has been detected. I'm a little unclear whether the little dog followed the coyote into the ravine, or if the coyote grabbed it. It is small enough that a coyote could easily grab it and run. These dogs o would always chase after dogs, and probably would chase after a coyote. So it may have chased first, then suffered an attack. This happened early AM, probably not quite first light. The owner went down into the ravine, and somehow confirmed her dog was killed. One neighbor told me the owner found remains, but whether that was a collar, or the actual little dog, I don't know. Interestingly enough, I have not heard any stories about housecats being taken. Nor have we seen any rifling of garbage, at least on my street.


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

My neighbor became interested in this topic since coyotes appeared in our neighborhood,sent me a link on a New Hampshire attack. A man suffocated a coyote with his bare hands after it attacked his young son and would not let go of him. I was skeptical, but the link checked out. It would have occurred in the last couple days. Same coyote may have followed a car, i.e. chased it, and bit a woman and her dogs. The dad who killed the coyote was also bitten on his chest and arm. Have not heard any result of rabies test.

On a separate note, this weekend we shopped for boots at a place called Field and Stream. They have quite the taxidermy menagerie, including some wolves and a coyote "overseeing" the boot department. The store is dog-friendly, and we took our 6 month old. She is about 48-50 ##, give or take. Assuming the taxidermy is pretty accurate as to actual size, and assuming that was an adult coyote, pup actually larger. The stuffed coyote had smaller snout,skinnier legs than even a typical juvenile 6 mo. to one year old GSD. 
I'm guessing it may be a western coyote, as the ones we've seen in Cincinnati seem bigger. 

No more small pets taken and for me and my wife, no more sightings lately either.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

House cat in California fights off 3 coyotes:


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## Squidwardp (Oct 15, 2019)

That's one tough cat!


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## Lexie’s mom (Oct 27, 2019)

I saw one standing on a top of the pile of branches after the landscaping crew was done. With a bun in his mouth. And also saw one watching someone on the bicycle driving by and the coyote was watching the person standing behind the tree next to the road.
Also some howling mostly in summer and Fozz can howl just as well as them.
We have fenced yards. Coyotes never got in. Only bears...Major pain.


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