# Curious about Halo's pedigree



## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Anyone care to comment? 6 gen. pedigree for Halo von Rokanhaus - German shepherd dog

Good or bad, I've love some input - she's my first working line shepherd.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Alrighty then.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Sorry, Debbie. Not my line of knowledge. Now...if you want to know about ASL, I could help you.


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## GSDGunner (Feb 22, 2011)

I'd love to, but that stuff goes right over my head.

But from a novice like me, it's looks pretty darn impressive. 
I'm sure someone else will be more helpful.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm a novice on reading pedigrees too, but I know we do have many experienced working line people here. I'd love to know what they would expect to see based on the dogs in her pedigree. 

I'm wondering if it's a situation of "can't say anything nice so I won't say anything at all"!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I would just like to say that I think she is beautiful. :wub:


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Well, if you search here for Hannes, there's been some good info about him. 

I have trouble being impartial b/c I know the breeder personally and have met Doc and am considering breeding a bitch to him in the next year or so.

I've seen some differing things out of Doc, including slow to mature dogs and some really big pups (all out of the same litter). But other of his pups are dynamite. So might depend strongly on the mother.

Hanuta has very strong dogs in her pedigree. From her father's side she gets some very strong dogs, hard dogs with a lot of attitude, and from her mother's side she gets low thresholds (Nick) and high prey (Nick and Jago); from Jago, you also get dogs who are known for huge grips in bitework and for handler hardness.

I like this combination and would expect the pups to be a handful--lots of attitude and potential, with a nice balance of (high) drives. Not likely to be couch potatoes and not likely to be good "beginner" dogs. (Although every litter will have a range of pups, of course, and some may have shown themselves to be mellower, calmer, as pups.)


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Thank you Christine! Impartiality is not particularly important to me, I'm looking for opinions, and the fact that you've met Doc actually gives you a better perspective than someone who hasn't, IMO. 

Much of what you've said is spot on regarding Halo. I think she has been slower to mature, she's definitely not large at 60 pounds, but at least one of her littermates was much bigger, she has tons of attitude and lower thresholds than I'm used to with my previous GSDs (two Amline and two German showline). She can be a handful at times but I'm not finding her prey drive to be extremely high, certainly not as high as Keefer's. Or maybe it's just that it's been easy to direct it appropriately so it hasn't become a problem. She will try to herd the cats, but she won't hurt them. 

Halo is definitely not a couch potato but she does has a good off switch and does not drive us crazy around the house. She plays hard and then sleeps hard. Since we've never had a working line dog before she's been a challenge, but I think that she's going to end up being an awesome dog, I'm just having to work at it harder than I would normally do!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Anyone else?

I did do a search on her grand-sire Hannes, and saw that both Chris Wild and Lisa Clark had bred to him.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Christine knows a heck of a lot more about pedigrees than I do.....

I like the pedigree, at least the names I recognize. Have a Jago daughter here, she'll be 13 next month and she's still very active, still bugging us to throw the ball. If I could clone her I would! She's such a wonderful dog, and beautiful too.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i think if you were just looking for mostly a pet, and doing some activities like agility, rally, stuff like that that its a decent pedigree, if you were looking to do SchH probably not so good........she is a beautiful girl!


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

debbiebrown said:


> i think if you were just looking for mostly a pet, and doing some activities like agility, rally, stuff like that that its a decent pedigree, if you were looking to do SchH probably not so good........she is a beautiful girl!


Why do you say that?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

debbiebrown said:


> i think if you were just looking for mostly a pet, and doing some activities like agility, rally, stuff like that that its a decent pedigree, if you were looking to do SchH probably not so good........she is a beautiful girl!


I don't understand this comment at all. This pedigree is just fine for doing SchH, and most anything else, including being an active companion as Halo is.

We had a litter out of Hannes. Though with just 2 females, and them only 5 months old, only limited info to go by at this point. I will say that physically they are on the large side, with lots of bone and big heads, especially for girls. Though the size might be just faster growth rates, hopefully it is!

Nerves are absolutely incredible. Nothing phases them at all. They were sending baby gates crashing down at 4 weeks old and trotting right over them, no reaction to the noise or hesitation whatsoever and that trend of unflappability has continued no matter what they have been exposed to. Bold, confident, cocky, very focused and persistent, showing protective instinct very young. Also quite calm and settled dogs, especially for their age, but they turn on easily and when they turn on watch out. Very strong drives with very, very much intensity and a lot of seriousness and the beginnings of strong active aggression/fight drive even at a very young age. Then they turn right off again. Excellent judgement and modulation of behavior. If an adult gets them ramped up or doesn't get the tug in the way when playing, a very full and hard bite drawing blood and causing brusining is a likely outcome. But totally sweet, gentle and restrained with small children. Thus far my only complaint about the litter is that there were only 2 pups!

But that's only part of Halo's pedigree. Her dam also has a strong working pedigree though as I don't know her dam I prefer to refrain from commenting just based on names on paper. As for Doc, he's a very strong dog who seems to also be producing very well, though "on paper" I don't like his pedigree as much as Hannes as his dam's side brings in some areas of weakness IMO whereas one would be hard pressed to find any sort of weakness in his sire's. This being why we chose to go to Hannes, even though Doc would have been a whole lot cheaper, easier and more convenient, and probably would have produced a bigger litter. But that's personal preference.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

For me the large size would really be a turn off I much prefer a dog on the smaller size especially females-you know the german shepherd wasn't bred to be a large dog-if you want that get a newf or a saint bernard -saw the cutest one the other day but his breeder was keeping him


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

Chris Wild said:


> as his dam's side brings in some areas of weakness IMO


Just to bug you...what do you think are the weaknesses on the dam's side?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

The females in my Hannes litter were not large, but Vala is not a big bitch (thick, but not tall).  Deja is almost 2 and maybe her mother's height and around 60#. The males, were, for the most part, large. Xander was the small male and he was in the 70's the last time she weighed him. Donovan (my male) is the next size up and is yet 90#, though he is close. He is not a huge dog, well within standard, but big bone, big head, longer in body like his mom. The other males are all bigger and well over 90#. Hannes gave me improved structure and balance, but slow maturing dogs for the most part. The females maturing much faster than the males. 

Your puppy is linebred on the excellent W litter wannaer Höhen (these dogs seem to be pretty biddable) and brings in some good genetics for aggression (Nick) and hardness (Jago, though he didn't produce it as much as his black/tan littermates Jenni and Jalk; Crok and Xando Karthago). 

I have never seen her parents, but just looking quickly at her pedigree, she should be fun.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Chris Wild said:


> As for Doc, he's a very strong dog who seems to also be producing very well, though "on paper" I don't like his pedigree as much as Hannes as his dam's side brings in some areas of weakness IMO whereas one would be hard pressed to find any sort of weakness in his sire's. This being why we chose to go to Hannes, even though Doc would have been a whole lot cheaper, easier and more convenient, and probably would have produced a bigger litter. But that's personal preference.


Not to put you on the spot, but would the kind of weakness you're talking about on Doc's dam's side be more of a general thing, or specifically with regards to dogs competing in Schutzhund and the kind of drives you'd want to see. 



> Bold, confident, cocky, very focused and persistent, showing protective instinct very young. Also quite calm and settled dogs, especially for their age, but they turn on easily and when they turn on watch out. Very strong drives with very, very much intensity and a lot of seriousness and the beginnings of strong active aggression/fight drive even at a very young age. Then they turn right off again.


This describes Halo very well. Obviously the way that I've raised and trained her as a companion dog hasn't really tested her protective instincts and fight drive, but she is definitely bold, confident, cocky, focused, and intense. And also very patient and persistent about getting what she wants - she is a plotter and a schemer! But an easy keeper around the house too, not hyper at all. 

Although she's more dog than I'm used to, she's also a ton of fun with a really big personality that makes us laugh all the time. :wub:


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

holland said:


> For me the large size would really be a turn off I much prefer a dog on the smaller size especially females-you know the german shepherd wasn't bred to be a large dog-if you want that get a newf or a saint bernard -saw the cutest one the other day but his breeder was keeping him


Holland, Halo is only 60 pounds, so certainly not all the females are large. ETA: She is extremely athletic - agile and VERY fast!!!


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I was referring to the Hannes litter- Mr.Perfect with no weaknesses


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

holland said:


> For me the large size would really be a turn off I much prefer a dog on the smaller size especially females-you know the german shepherd wasn't bred to be a large dog-if you want that get a newf or a saint bernard -saw the cutest one the other day but his breeder was keeping him


Large size does not equal oversize, just toward the upper end of the standard rather than lower end. Big difference. And hardly a Newf.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Not to put you on the spot, but would the kind of weakness you're talking about on Doc's dam's side be more of a general thing, or specifically with regards to dogs competing in Schutzhund and the kind of drives you'd want to see.


Again, just personal preference. There are some show lines in there which I don't really care to see. Also while I love Mink, Crok is one of my least favorite routes to Mink due to lower trigger thresholds and aggression that could manifest as what one could call "anger management issues". Not saying there is anything inherently wrong there, just for my own purposes with the particular bitches and bloodlines I have that makes portions of Doc's pedigree less favorable for my own breeding than that of his sire.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I still don't like large size and if I wanted that I would get a newf


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Are they making mini Newf's now that are in the 85-90lb range for a male, 65-70lb range for a female that is being discussed?


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> you know the german shepherd wasn't bred to be a large dog-if you want that get a newf or a saint bernard


IF I wanted the Newfie or St Bernard temperament & personality that's what I'd get. But it's not. And while I adore Irish Wolfhounds, & will have them again, I also very much love & enjoy the unique character & temperament of my GSD. The unsolicited & gratuitous 'advice' on what others should get is rarely correct, nor is it helpful.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't think I suggested that she get a newf or a saint bernard and if you don't like my posts don't read them which apparently you didn't anyway -


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Hey I agree with Holland on this, I also think that Hannes is about as close to perfect as any stud dog in the states. Definitely would be my first choice if I had a female to breed to.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

cliffson1 said:


> Hey I agree with Holland on this, I also think that Hannes is about as close to perfect as any stud dog in the states.


Good to know! Do you have any comments about the other dogs in her pedigree?


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I saw Doc at a show/breed survey last year. He's nice to look at and from what I saw he has a solid temperament. 

We had a different Hannes son at my Schh club a couple years ago...he was small for a male (about 65 lbs) but really good looking...he had absolutely crazy drive, he was super intense. He may not be typical of Hannes progeny since he was so over the top in every way, but he was an extremely powerful dog.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

So you SAW a Hannes son and it was small!! Interesting.....Guess that means the female bred to him would have some impact on the size of the dogs!...Interesting.


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## Daisy (Jan 4, 2009)

Halo is BEAUTIFUL!! (Sorry, no help on the pedigree.)


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Holland, the part of your post that I quoted clearly suggested that those who like large dogs should get Newfs or St Bernards. This assumes those who like large dogs actually like the temperament, personality, looks & build of News & St Bernards, which is not necessarily true.

IF my opinions of your posts are unwelcome, please feel free to follow your own advice and refrain from reading them.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Cliff..yes, I trained with the Hannes son many times, was told he's about 65 lbs, definitely no more than 70. I believe he is in AZ now. Here is the pedigree if you're interested... 
Nik Von Haus Frommann - German shepherd dog


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Thanks, with Datsy Hainpark coming through Neck in addition to Hannes I see where this dog would get the off the charts drive. I love Hannes genetically, and am glad he has been here in states for our benefit.


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## Saxtonhill (Jan 9, 2007)

Hi Cassidy's Mom:

Definitely get into agility with your girl...if she's anything like her speedy brother RayRay who runs schutzhund blinds like the wind, she'll do just fine.  And she'll probably track too. Her breeder is also a good source of info.

One thing though, try and find agility folks to train with who are familiar with working dogs and drive..other working line GSD folks or Border collie folks as they'll have good positive strategies for channeling all that drivey enthusiasm into productive training sessions. You and Halo will have more fun and be less frustrated---I learned about this the hard way and have many schutzhund and agility folks to thank for helping me with my enthusiastic high drive girl. My girl's breeder was also a great help to me.

Hope this helps. Have fun and happy training! 

Cathy


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Saxtonhill said:


> Hi Cassidy's Mom:
> 
> Definitely get into agility with your girl...if she's anything like her speedy brother RayRay who runs schutzhund blinds like the wind, she'll do just fine.  And she'll probably track too. Her breeder is also a good source of info.
> 
> ...


Wow, I happened to come across this old thread while doing a search for one of my posts that was unrelated to this discussion. I see that Saxtonhill is still active on the board, so I wanted to update - I never got around to taking agility classes with Halo, but I've been racing her in flyball for a little less than 2 years, and she absolutely LOVES it. We have a Terv, a Malinois, and several Border Collies in our flyball club, so I did end up with a great bunch of folks who understand drivey working dogs. I know she'd probably do great in agility, and she has very strong tracking genes through Doc, but I ended up going in a different direction and we're having the best time together.


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