# *Gulp*



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately and I just wanted to let you guys know that I am considering getting a german shepherd puppy in the near future again. It is due to the fact that I am starting to believe that a GSD would be a better fit for me at this time than a siberian. Really, I'd be happy with either, but I am beginning to think that just maybe a gsd could better suit me than a siberian. 

I love both breeds and becoming a siberian breeder and getting my foundation female has been put on hold, for some years at least. Really, I want a pet. If I get a GSD puppy, it will be definitely and absolutely a pet. I will keep you guys updated. I hope no one gets angry with me and chomps my head off. *Closes her eyes and readies head to get chomped off*


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

I must be missing some history. Why would people be upset?


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

fuzzybunny said:


> I must be missing some history. Why would people be upset?


Because I've switched back and forth before. Really, siberian or gsd, I'd be happy.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Well I think it's great that your getting a pup!


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

fuzzybunny said:


> Well I think it's great that your getting a pup!


It's 50/50 at this moment. I'm close to getting a good rental and everything and if everything goes well, hopefully I will finally have a dog again.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

fuzzybunny said:


> I must be missing some history. Why would people be upset?


Because she's told us repeatedly to talk her out of it if she starts talking about getting a pup right now while in school. :nono:


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## MicheleMarie (Mar 29, 2011)

i think everyone should have a dog  whether siberian or GSD or a pound mutt


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

MicheleMarie said:


> i think everyone should have a dog  whether siberian or GSD or a pound mutt


No, not everyone should have a dog. Only people who are in a position to care for the dog's physical, mental, and emotional needs should have a dog. 

I'm not saying GSDFan can't, I'm just saying not everybody should have a dog. Last I heard GSDFan was moving out of her parents' house, going to college, trying to get into vet school and she said she didn't feel it was the best situation for a dog.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

think you ought to make up your mind and have a good, delineated reason why a GSD vs a Sibe...

Why choose the GSD?

If you are not in a position to spend a ton of time with a pup, don't get either one.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

zyppi said:


> think you ought to make up your mind and have a good, delineated reason why a GSD vs a Sibe...


I agree. You have gone back and forth and back and forth between the two breeds. You've clearly been trying to learn what you can and have been asking lots of questions about both. But the best advice you have gotten is to get out and meet the dogs. Several dogs of both breeds and different lines within those breeds to really get a feel for them and decide what will be right for you. And you have repeatedly said that you do not have the time or resources to do that at this point in your life. If you cannot put the effort into really learning about the breeds in real life (the internet is not sufficient research) to decide which is right for you, then the only responsible thing to do is to wait until after you can do that before considering a puppy. 

And given you are in school, aspiring to vet school which will suck up pretty much every waking moment of your life for 4 years if you get in, meaning time and resources are limited, it would not be fair to you or the puppy to be getting a dog anytime soon. If you can't find the opportunity to get out and meet the dogs to decide what you really want before jumping into a 12-14 year committment, how are you going to find the time and resources to properly raise, train and socialize a puppy?


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> I agree. You have gone back and forth and back and forth between the two breeds. You've clearly been trying to learn what you can and have been asking lots of questions about both. But the best advice you have gotten is to get out and meet the dogs. Several dogs of both breeds and different lines within those breeds to really get a feel for them and decide what will be right for you. And you have repeatedly said that you do not have the time or resources to do that at this point in your life. If you cannot put the effort into really learning about the breeds in real life (the internet is not sufficient research) to decide which is right for you, then the only responsible thing to do is to wait until after you can do that before considering a puppy.
> 
> And given you are in school, aspiring to vet school which will suck up pretty much every waking moment of your life for 4 years if you get in, meaning time and resources are limited, it would not be fair to you or the puppy to be getting a dog anytime soon. If you can't find the opportunity to get out and meet the dogs to decide what you really want before jumping into a 12-14 year committment, how are you going to find the time and resources to properly raise, train and socialize a puppy?


:thumbup:


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

If it was anything but vet school/med school/law school I would say you can definately raise a dog while doing your undergrad. I just got out a year ago and I had a lot of free time. The only reason I bought a dog now is that I had a job and the SO was still in school so had a lot of time during the day to spend with the pup. As for your decision on the breed, I guess its up to you, I've always wanted a Siberian Husky, but after reading about the exercise requirements realized that it wasn't a dog for me. I'm just not that active, and I have the time to be active. I'd try a year of vet school before jumping in and getting a puppy. I can't really tell you what the time commitment will be, but I'd hope (for our dogs sake) that it is quite the tough thing to go through.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

But I may not become a vet. I am strongly considering changing my concentration, it's another decision to decide. 

If I change my concentration, I am looking at least two more years of college instead of 2+4. 

But you know, either way, two years isn't a long time to wait. I know you guys are sick and tired of me going back and forth, so am I. 

What has me considering getting a dog is I feel like I can afford it and I feel like it can be done and done well, especially if I change my concentration.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Sounds like _that's_ what you need to decide first though.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Well, I'm not in school - just a regular 8 hrs a day job. Other than my dogs, I have no life. I've been leaving for work at 7 am in the morning (after exercising the dogs - means I'm up at 5am). I take them to work with me during the cooler spring and fall weather. My lunch time is dogs. My work breaks is dogs. After work we go training or hiking, or both. All this week I've been home around 9 or 10 pm. 

Up next morning at 5 am to do it all over again. I live on my own. No one is cooking for me, cleaning for me, doing laundry for me, doing my shopping for me. I find time here and there to these things, but my #1 priority is looking after my dogs' needs. I love it and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not saying that everyone needs to do this, but people new to dog ownership need to know how much of a commitment dogs are. I'm with others in saying that vet school, and being on your own for the first time will be enough of a life-style change that throwing in high-energy dogs like a GSD or a Siberian might be too overwhelming. 

Get more settled, know what your schedule will be, then think about it some more.


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

In terms of finances, I would ask yourself if you can afford it if your dog has a health problem. If so, then that's good. We all assume when we get pups from a reputable breeder that they are going to be in good health. My guy has had a lot of digestive issues and I can say with certainty that I would not have been able to care for him financially and physically if I were in school. If you can then that's great. This is something I tend to bring to everyone's attention when they are considering a new dog due to my experience. I'm not saying you shouldn't get a dog. I'm just raising a point of consideration in case you haven't thought of it already. Good luck in whatever you decide


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

What I'm going to do is:

wait.

Yeah, whether in the vet or dietian career, I think I'm going to go with what I first intended: waiting.

I hate to wait, especially since I miss having a dog and that one of the breeder I like is about to have a beautiful breeding, but someday I will get an excellent puppy. But what's the point in getting a good puppy if I don't have time to do the extra doggy activities?

Thank you emoore, and if you guys want, you can remind me to wait every time I consider getting a dog.

Thank you.

Oh, and by the way, I got A's in every single one of my classes this semester. Yay, go me!


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## fuzzybunny (Apr 29, 2011)

Have you ever considered fostering? It's a shorter term commitment and would allow you to see how a dog would fit into your current lifestyle.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

IMO you shouldn't get a puppy/dog until:

1) You have a stable job and enough money to properly take care of a puppy/dog, meaning money for a good quality kibble, Vet care and training if necessary. 

2) You are out of your parents house, have your own place and can afford all of your bills and a puppy/dog.

3) You have at least 4 hours each day (not including when you are sleeping) to dedicate time to bonding, training, exercising and playing with your puppy/dog.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

fuzzybunny said:


> Have you ever considered fostering? It's a shorter term commitment and would allow you to see how a dog would fit into your current lifestyle.


Yes, I have. However, since I have decided to wait I will be living in the dorms. I think that would be best. I could help a shelter by evaluating dogs or something of that nature. There are ways to get involved, but I can't foster in the dorms.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSD Fan said:


> Oh, and by the way, I got A's in every single one of my classes this semester. Yay, go me!


Yaaaaay! Me too! Yay for A's! :toasting::toasting:


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

GSD Fan said:


> Yes, I have. However, since I have decided to wait I will be living in the dorms. I think that would be best. I could help a shelter by evaluating dogs or something of that nature. There are ways to get involved, but I can't foster in the dorms.


:thumbup::thumbup:
I wanted to mention as a consideration the fact that at this point in your life you may still have multiple moves in a relatively short period of time---and sometimes it is difficult to find a place that will allow a GSD. When I was in college I changed my major and schools a couple of times. I lived on and off campus in various rental places that sometimes changed with each semester! I wanted a fuzzy pet, so I got a rat! (great little pet, BTW).
Just something to think about...


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> IMO you shouldn't get a puppy/dog until:
> 
> 1) You have a stable job and enough money to properly take care of a puppy/dog, meaning money for a good quality kibble, Vet care and training if necessary.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

My friend in vet school just took her cat with her. No way does she have time for a dog. And with internships and such..lots of being a way!

PS. I have a siberian rescue and he is sweet, but tends to want to run away. In my mind, he is sorta the opposite of a GSD. A siberian is not similiar to a GSD. 

Maybe just image a puppy for now. much easier!


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> I agree. You have gone back and forth and back and forth between the two breeds. You've clearly been trying to learn what you can and have been asking lots of questions about both. But the best advice you have gotten is to get out and meet the dogs. Several dogs of both breeds and different lines within those breeds to really get a feel for them and decide what will be right for you. And you have repeatedly said that you do not have the time or resources to do that at this point in your life. If you cannot put the effort into really learning about the breeds in real life (the internet is not sufficient research) to decide which is right for you, then the only responsible thing to do is to wait until after you can do that before considering a puppy.


Chris Wild, or anyone willing to answer, I have a question. So you go out and meet the dogs whether you're breeding or just looking for a pet, right? What if you're looking for this and that and you see that the breeder you're interested in breeds that and is consistent about it? Do you still absolutely need to go to that breeder and meet their dogs or does that cross out that part of looking for that in that breeder?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSD Fan said:


> Chris Wild, or anyone willing to answer, I have a question. So you go out and meet the dogs whether you're breeding or just looking for a pet, right? What if you're looking for this and that and you see that the breeder you're interested in breeds that and is consistent about it? Do you still absolutely need to go to that breeder and meet their dogs or does that cross out that part of looking for that in that breeder?


I'm sorry, can you re-phrase the question?


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Emoore said:


> I'm sorry, can you re-phrase the question?


Okay, let's say you like a breeder. You see that this breeder breeds what you are looking for in a dog and in a german shepherd and you see she or he does this consistently. Like, let's say you're looking for a sports dog and you see that this breeder has sport stock and they produce sport puppies and dogs, you see that people with their puppies title these pups and everything. 


My question is, is meeting the dogs still a absolute must? Do you absolutely have to drive to this breeder and meet their dogs? It's your choice, yes, but is it a big gamble if you purchase from this breeder in the future?


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I think she's asking, "If you know exactly what you want and you know a breeder is breeding for that, should you still go meet the dogs?"

To which I would answer "yes" and "no."

I would say it's still a REALLY good idea to get to know the dogs, as one breeder's definition of high drive may be different from another, etc. AND, how do you know that's what you want unless you meet dogs? You can't just say you want a dog with low drive until you meet dogs like that and decide that you like the temperment, personality, and drive of that type of dog, kwim?


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

DJEtzel said:


> I think she's asking, "If you know exactly what you want and you know a breeder is breeding for that, should you still go meet the dogs?"
> 
> To which I would answer "yes" and "no."
> 
> I would say it's still a REALLY good idea to get to know the dogs, as one breeder's definition of high drive may be different from another, etc. AND, how do you know that's what you want unless you meet dogs? You can't just say you want a dog with low drive until you meet dogs like that and decide that you like the temperment, personality, and drive of that type of dog, kwim?


Yeah, that's what I was asking. :thumbup:


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## nasus858 (Oct 11, 2010)

While you are waiting to get a dog and going to school you could volunteer at your local shelters and rescues. They always need help and that way you get to be around the animals and it might help with the wanting a dog now.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

nasus858 said:


> While you are waiting to get a dog and going to school you could volunteer at your local shelters and rescues. They always need help and that way you get to be around the animals and it might help with the wanting a dog now.


She already did that.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

My answer is that you absolutely cannot know what you want without having first hand experience with dogs. Period. One can categorize dogs until the cows come home, but not all DDR dogs are alike, or "sport" dogs are alike, or German show line dogs are alike. There is a vast amount of individual character and personality differences not just between the dogs in those categories, but individual bloodlines and dogs within those categories. You only get a feel for that by meeting the dogs. And you only attain comprehension of what all the buzzwords like drive, threshold, hardness, biddability, etc... actually mean and what they translate to in terms of what that dog is like, what it is like to work with, and what it is like to live with by getting out and seeing dogs with those traits.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

GSD Fan said:


> Okay, let's say you like a breeder. You see that this breeder breeds what you are looking for in a dog and in a german shepherd and you see she or he does this consistently. Like, let's say you're looking for a sports dog and you see that this breeder has sport stock and they produce sport puppies and dogs, you see that people with their puppies title these pups and everything.
> 
> My question is, is meeting the dogs still a absolute must? Do you absolutely have to drive to this breeder and meet their dogs? It's your choice, yes, but is it a big gamble if you purchase from this breeder in the future?


Depends on how much you are generalizing. My last two GSDs were both from breeders. I love them both. One is from a show line breeder, the other from a working line breeder. Both kennels have multiple breeding dogs, but in both cases, I was only interested in a puppy from a particular breeding male or female. I don't generalize as much as "sport puppies" and such, I am looking for a specific combination of traits/temperament. In both cases, I am not interested in puppies from other litters from the same breeder. That's not to slam them or the other dogs, but I picked the *litters* I picked for a reason.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> My answer is that you absolutely cannot know what you want without having first hand experience with dogs. Period. One can categorize dogs until the cows come home, but not all DDR dogs are alike, or "sport" dogs are alike, or German show line dogs are alike. There is a vast amount of individual character and personality differences not just between the dogs in those categories, but individual bloodlines and dogs within those categories. You only get a feel for that by meeting the dogs. And you only attain comprehension of what all the buzzwords like drive, threshold, hardness, biddability, etc... actually mean and what they translate to in terms of what that dog is like, what it is like to work with, and what it is like to live with by getting out and seeing dogs with those traits.


I'm sorry, I just do not understand. I don't see a person looking for a pet german shepherd looking for any of that, unless they plan to do more than just companionship. I don't get it, why does that matter if you're just looking for a pet puppy whose medical bills won't be as high as a unethical breeder?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

GSD Fan said:


> I'm sorry, I just do not understand. I don't see a person looking for a pet german shepherd looking for any of that, unless they plan to do more than just companionship. I don't get it, why does that matter if you're just looking for a pet puppy whose medical bills won't be as high as a unethical breeder?


You don't understand why somebody would want balanced drives, biddability, and a high threshold for aggression in a pet? :thinking: 

(I don't know if that's what Chris meant by "threshold;" it's an example of a type of threshold you would definitely want in a pet)


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Emoore said:


> You don't understand why somebody would want balanced drives, biddability, and a high threshold for aggression in a pet? :thinking:
> 
> (I don't know if that's what Chris meant by "threshold;" it's an example of a type of threshold you would definitely want in a pet)


Okay, I understand now or at least I think I do.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Are you sure? It might be a great discussion.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Well for starters, you used the example of someone supposedly wanting a "sport" dog, not a pet.

But beyond that, temperament is as viatally important in "just a pet" as it is for anyone else. Often moreso as many pet homes involve lots of children and visitors, wanting to do lots of social excursions with the dog, combined with typically often much less knowledge about proper training and management, much less training overall, and fewer resources for help if something does go wrong. Proper temperament is important.

The problem is, "proper temperament" varies from one person and situation to another. Certainly there are things like solid nerves that go across the board. But temperament is not just one thing, it is a combination of many different personality characteristics. And someone cannot know what the desired temperament is for them, much less go and shop for it, without understanding what those different factors are and deciding which ones do and do not fit the individual's personality and lifestyle. What level of drive is appropriate for you? What level of hardness? What thresholds for different drives and reactions? You cannot learn these things on the internet. Certainly you can find a definition of drive and hardness and threshold, but you cannot learn what they MEAN. One doesn't understand the difference between low drive, high drive and moderate drive without seeing dogs of all 3 types. 

A real life example that I encounter all the time is the plethora of people who think their dog is "high drive" when really in the grand scheme of things it isn't. It might be for that person, but not compared to the dog population as a whole. If they go to a breeder saying they want a "high drive" dog like theirs, they may find they end up with too much dog because what is "high drive" to them is not high drive to the rest of the world. What they were really looking for was moderate drive, but they didn't know that because they hadn't seen truly high drive dogs to give them a standard of comparison. 

The same would go for any other trait. Someone might think they want a "hard" dog because it sounds cool on the internet. But they've never seen a really hard dog, nor do they have the personality to really manage a hard dog properly. If they got away from the computer and out into the dog world to meet lots of different dogs, so they could see softer dogs and hard dogs and dogs in between they would have a much better understanding of what those traits translate into in terms of the dog's personality and behavior and how they need to be managed and trained, and a better basis for comparing that to their own desires and experience and personality to decide what is a good fit.

I could go on and on with every other aspect of temperament imagineable, and how often what people think they have or think they want isn't really what they have or want, but they do not have the basis of comparison to realize that. And if they go shopping using buzzwords to describe what they think is their ideal dog, they may get something completely different. But I'll stop here and hope my point has finally been made. Though I will say that as with many things, the importance of seeing dogs and gaining and understanding of what those traits really mean is frequently never understood until the person does it. Once you see the dogs, the differences tend to be quite obvious.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

GSD Fan said:


> medical bills won't be as high as a unethical breeder?


One last thing. While health is important, I'd much rather deal with health issues than temperament issues any day. Most health issues can be managed or fixed, though yes it can cost some significant cash to do so. Temperament issues can NOT be fixed no matter how much one tries to. Managed with training and a lot of vigilance, maybe. But never cured. And seeking professional help to try to manage them can easily cost more than medical bills. And a dog with HD or EPI or SIBO or allergies or PF is not a potential danger to others and liability to own, whereas a dog with temperament issues is.

The first priority should always been sound temperament. But again, one cannot understand what sound temperament is, and all the traits that go into it, much less determine which aspects are a good fit for them and their lifestyle, without meeting and interacting with dogs in real life.


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## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

So not only is it better go out and meet the dogs to get a feel of what I am looking for, but I'll also learn about what is proper and the termnology and how it is used and what it means. Okay, I think I do indeed understand better. That wasn't so bad, thank you Miss Chris Wild! 

Summer is here, so maybe I can visit a breeder or a show or two before starting back in August.  That leads to another question, can I visit breeders and visit with their dogs or should I do shows and breeders both?

Once I do enough research along with getting out and meeting dogs, I'll know when I know what I am looking for, right?


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## MegansGrace (Apr 27, 2011)

Just wanted to add my 2 cents since I just recently graduated undergraduate, which is when I got my labrador as a puppy, and I'm headed off to vet school this fall. I wanted a GSD at the time, but finding housing with a dog is hard enough, finding it with a GSD is even harder. I knew I'd be moving around a lot so I played it safe and got a Lab. 

I'm a really intense student and every single thing I did in and out of the classroom was to get in to vet school. I had a great GPA, thousands of hours of experience, etc etc and only got into 1 out of the 4 vet schools I applied to. That's kind of the way it is. 

That being said, I went ahead and got a puppy my junior year. It worked for me because I walked home between classes to let him out and pretty much dropped most of my social life for him. For me, because I a.) studied and get the best grades I could b.) did everything possible for my dog (obedience classes, exercise, etc) c.) slept when possible d.) worked at the vet clinic (and brought my dog with me). A lot of my friends had dogs, but their idea of raising them was barely giving them any exercise, leaving them for 10+ hours, and even bringing them to huge parties where it wasn't uncommon for people to try and get them high or give them beer. I'm sure dropping your social life isn't necessary to have a dog in college, but for me to get into vet school, work, and raise a puppy the right way, there was no way you were going to find me out at the bars all the time. 

I can't wait to get a GSD puppy but I'm waiting to see what vet school is like. If your dog is your hobby and you make time *no matter what* it can work. It kind of feels like I have a kid and I'm trying to go to school at the same time. My whole schedule revolves around my dog since I'm the only one who takes care of him. Even when I had roommates, I didn't really ask for their help since he was my dog and honestly I didn't really trust them. 

All that being said, I'd wait. I'd wait til you're in school, see what it's like. Figure out if your housing situation is going to remain the same or constantly change. Mine changed every single year. My first year with the puppy, I wasn't suppose to have any animals so I hid him, but it was extremely stressful and I knew he'd have to go home to my parents if I got caught (my agreed upon backup plan before I got the puppy). It's really hard to wait, but it your best interests and the dogs, its probably the best idea. It sounds like you need to decide what you want to do for college, get started in it and settled, make sure you have the money for a dog and the housing, and then start considering.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

GSD Fan said:


> Summer is here, so maybe I can visit a breeder or a show or two before starting back in August.  That leads to another question, can I visit breeders and visit with their dogs or should I do shows and breeders both?


This will be great if with summer coming you can do this. While breeders and shows aren't bad, I think visiting training clubs is really the most enlightening. At any club you're likely to see several different dogs of different types and bloodlines and personalities. There will be more variety there than at any given breeder, and unlike at a show/trial you'll get to see them training and working with their handlers and their handlers will be much more able to let you interact with the dogs and to talk with you about them than they would be if they're busy competing. 




GSD Fan said:


> Once I do enough research along with getting out and meeting dogs, I'll know when I know what I am looking for, right?


Probably. If nothing else you'll at least have eliminated some possible breeds/types/lines/breeders from contention and have developed a short list of ones you are interested in researching further, and have a much better idea of what questions to ask, what further research to do, and where best to obtain that information.


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