# Training - You just HAVE to teach tugging..



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

http://susangarrett.wordpress.com/2009/02/

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Monday, February 16, 2009

this is Susan Garrett, and there's even a video.



> Quote:This is more work for the ‘food-only’ trainer, so it sometimes times gets skipped and the dogs that should be having the shortest training sessions (lower drive dogs), often get the longest! I firmly believe this is a major contributing factor to the reason that most dogs that are trained exclusively with food are less driven in competition than dogs that are toy motivated.


And I agree with 



> Quote:My point is, if you where to do a poll of all of the slow moving dogs in the ring and asked the owners if their dog enjoys a game of tug with them, I bet the answer would be “no” and if you ask the owners of the really fast dog the answer would be “yes.”


Comments?


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## OllieGSD (Feb 21, 2007)

My dog as a pup loved to play tug, but I did not know how to train any other way but w/ food. (I didn't want to force the obedience). Anyway I only got slow responces w/ food training until I learned how to use the tug for training and what a difference it made. Not only did I get faster sits and downs, I also got a bit of flash in the heeling. So I would definately agree that dogs that like to play tug or are ball crazy that the obedience is faster...


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## Aster (May 17, 2008)

I love reading her blog. I very much agree with her on this. Aster is very toy motivated (and hardly food motivated at all) whereas Bryce is way more food motivated than toy motivated. I have found 1 toy that I can fairly reliably get her excited about and we are working on building toy drive. In my experience, it is sooo much easier to train and motivate the toy driven dog than the food motivated dog! And I am even starting to see a difference in Bryce's drive, focus, and learning speed now that she's getting interested in toys.

Off topic, but there is a quote that Susan Garrett has used several times in her blog now from Zig Ziglar that I absolutely love (and Im not a quote person!). It goes “The main reason for people’s lack of success in life is their willingness to give up what they want most of all, for what they want right now.” So true. I find it running through my head whenever I am tempted to release from a 2o2o early to make up those couple seconds that occasionally cost us our Q. It also applies to so many other areas of life! (I sound like a total dork now!)


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: “The main reason for people’s lack of success in life is their willingness to give up what they want most of all, for what they want right now.”


That's a great quote for life in general and agility in specific! 

It breaks my heart when I see pretty much 100% of newbies NOT realize that speed/motivation and drive matters in agility. So either refuse to use the toy or under-use it in training. But they sure do end up with accurate dogs....

That tend to not make course time at the higher levels.

And it's amazing how many of these SAME people are dog-toy-tugging FOOLS with their next puppy! (hey, stupid humans can learn new things!!!!







)


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

I think I'm going to have the exact opposite problem when I start agility with my GSD (hopefully in the next couple of months)!
Her prey drive is pretty crazy and I think between her prey drive and the excitement of me running, I am going to have to work hard to keep her CALM so neither of us get hurt - and will probably use food so she doesn't get too nuts. It's going to be a huge challenge though! But I have always worked dogs that were lacking in drive and focus so it'll be nice to deal with the opposite problem for a change!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

phgsd, the point is we really want to use both. So you are in good shape. Seems like ALL our dogs will eat treats, which is why that easier and we tend to under (or not?) develop the tugging skills at all. 

I use the treats in exactly the same situations you are thinking about. My dog is a bit calmer and able to think with the treats. As well as giving out a teeny treat my dog immediately swallows, makes the training session go alot faster and progress quicker. A rousing game of tug puts a huge break in the session!

But as soon as she's learned the 'whatever' I'm teaching, I want it at speed! Fast fast fast.... and food won't give me that. But the toy. OH THE TOY! I can leave it in place. Throw it if the reward needs to be away from me. Or have it with me for the game of tug. 

The more 'tools' in our tugging bag of trick to keep motivation going and prevent boredom, the better.


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## Aster (May 17, 2008)

I just have a tiny brag on the topic of this thread...

Bryce and I just got back from her Beginners class tonight and she was tugging! On the actual tug toy, not just her goose that she loves. Very proud of the baby dog, her focus was much improved because of it.

Then she and the border collie pup that she loves realized that they were both off leash decided it would be fun to herd each other. *sigh* at least it was towards the end of class


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote:Bryce and I just got back from her Beginners class tonight and she was tugging! On the actual tug toy, not just her goose that she loves. Very proud of the baby dog, her focus was much improved because of it.


Once this gets started, as long as you keep on 'working' on this and making yourself so much tugging fun............you'll gradually see YOU will be more fun to play with than any other pup that runs past! Currently (sigh) the puppies find each other more fun, but you CAN turn this around, and already are!!!


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## JayneA (Jun 11, 2002)

Yup I echo that.

Kai wouldn't tug at all at agility - too much going on and too mad but would love it at home. We worked with the Tug It toy and now (about 6 months later granted!) he will tug on the Tug-It or his lead. Not quite onto a ball on a rope but we may get there.

As you say it makes a huge difference to focus.

My girl has always been the slow and steady type and wouldn't tug due to nerves. We've done masses of work with her and she now tugs like a demon in the queue and in the ring and has speeded up slightly - inteesting!


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## mygsds (Jan 7, 2007)

Good luck. I am training and starting to compete with a very high drive girl. No way can I ever keep up with her ) My previous dog was trained late in life and was slow but steady - and he hated to tug with me. I tried to get him interested a sa pup when I did schutzhund as using the toy gets more flashy heeling too but he was a 100% food driven dog.
Kahlua is both - crazy wild to play tug with me but will work for food so I use what I need at that time. If she gets too high and focusing too much on the tug I use food for a while.
It is more challenging to train this one (also my first dog I trained as a pup for agility) but she is a blast to run.

The other advantage of the tugging is that the dog is more likely to come to you when they get the zoomies. Kahlua had it big time when I put her in a trial last fall. But I kept her out for a while, worked on recalls for the tug and now I can toss it away after a jump or weaves and she is desperate to bring it to me to play.
Bad part is I have multiple bruises where she hits me when she comes back as I encourage her to jump into me to play.
Pat


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

I'm thankful Risa is finally comfortable and confident enough to play tug with me (vigorously) pretty much anywhere.







I have found that, when I use toy rewards with her, she is much more animated and high-energy. Which is a good thing. I just need to work with her a bit more on control as she tends to get a bit wild.


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## 3K9Mom (Jun 12, 2006)

This makes complete sense to me. And I'd tie it in with Garrett's entry about shaping behaviors (tricks). The more fun things we do with our dogs, the more they assume that being with us is fun, or should be fun, even when it may not appear to be (like, attempting the teeter for the first time). 

I've seen food motivated dogs essentially say "you've got to be kidding" when they're unstable and nervous on a piece of new equipment. But a toy motivated dog, even if unstable -- even if he struggles or falls off the equipment the first time -- is usually a lot more likely to give it another try. Why? I'm not sure, but I suspect it's because that when you play tug with a dog, it's a game of partners. Stop tugging, and the dog comes back to you and "asks" you to resume tugging. We have to do this together; otherwise it doesn't work. The dog gets it. 

I have a senior beagle/spaniel, my adult GSD, and my 10 month old beagle pup. All of them have taken agility classes and we have most of the equipment in our backyard. 

My dogs love to run their courses. I have to lock the other two up in an X-pen, where they watch impatiently. We rarely work with treats -- not even with the beagles who are always up for a snack. They just love the "game." It's what we do together. 

Tricks teach dogs that they can do unusual (within context) behaviors when we ask and that makes us happy (and get treats now and then, or better yet, a game of something they really like). Playing a *wide* assortment of games teaches dogs that they don't just "do fetch" with their humans. They do almost "everything fun" with their humans. Even obedience training can be fun when it's combined with play as the reward. It's give and take. Teamwork. 

So then, when we ask them to sprint across a high dog walk or weave through poles, they go. They don't hesitate, or ask for payment. They just do it, because you asked. Because you're a team, and that's what teammates do.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

We just completed our fifth class with Ty my now 11 month old, and last night he was so into his toys. Everyone kept asking are you sure he hasn't done this before? The difference I found was the first classes he was too busy looking and no focus, new dogs, different things I was asking and of course treats. Then classes 3 and 4 he was kind of getting it, he knew the dogs and the equipment was familiar but still treats. He would not pay attention to tug or ball. Last night, between equipment while waiting our turn he tugged and played catch. He was up the whole hour, his focus was right on, he was sharp. A new dog was there with hackles up and he ignored it even when it barked and jumped, (it was the training assistant's dog and was tied to a pole)

The other students wanted to know what had I done, and I said bring a toy and it praises and relieves stress. He hit the weaves perfect, only 6 but he got them, he did 3 jumps, 10 inches, tunnel and then chute in sequence no stopping for treats. He was the only one who did that and I think it was because we had been playing earlier and he wasn't so tired, this was the last thing after almost an hour and half class.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

> Quote: The other students wanted to know what had I done, and I said bring a toy and it praises and relieves stress. He hit the weaves perfect, only 6 but he got them, he did 3 jumps, 10 inches, tunnel and then chute in sequence no stopping for treats. He was the only one who did that and I think it was because we had been playing earlier and he wasn't so tired, this was the last thing after almost an hour and half class.


Well that sounds just about a perfect a class as you can have! Good work!


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