# Horrible Rash - Vet Clueless...help?



## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

This morning, I went to rub my hand over her back while she was eating and she yelped. I was shocked, so I attempted to find out what was going on. She would not let me touch her back. She was very sensitive. I was able to feel a lump on her back. 

Let's backtrack... we have three dogs - she's our only GSD. They play in a small lake or reservoirs out back with trees and shrubs that surround it. Houses surround the lake. We do have brown recluse, black widows, water snakes, copperheads, etc. I cut down a lot of the brush in a localized area behind our house. There is a common area, we do not sit right on the lake.

Each day, I take them out about three times a day. They play and swim. Saturday, she was bathed... no signs of pain or swelling. Sunday, they played with some friend's dogs while we chatted. Although the dogs were near, she did go under some brush whereas normally she's right next to me. 

So, we go to the vet, she was so sensitive that they sedated her to shave her back. I was in shock at how badly her back looked. The vet has no idea what may have caused it. She has little holes all over her back. They were oozing from the scabs being torn off from shaving her. All this to ask... do you have any idea what it could possibly be?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Flea allergy? Though the top of the back is kind of a weird spot for fleas, but that's my first guess.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Oh. gosh, poor baby. Many GSDs have such sensitive skin. Those to me look like infected bites of some sort. 
Chigger bites, maybe?

What worked for us on Hans's multiple and constant skin sores was the iodine regimen, plus putting Penaten cream on the sores. Penaten is like a miracle. Zinc accelerates healing and has been a Godsend to us. 


The iodine regimen:

A Simple Remedy to Treat Dog Skin Infection

Penaten:

Amazon.com: Penaten Cream ( 150 ml )(Packing Maybe Vary): Health & Personal Care

Penaten goes a very long way. All you need is a very tiny bit, otherwise it gets really sticky.


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## use2b (Jul 7, 2013)

this will sound crazy but I am an old man who has cured dogs the vet could not cure with " very used motor oil " new oil will not help or work at all.
very old burnt oil from a terrible running car has stuff in that old oil that will kill anything on a dog. I know it sounds crazy but it has always worked for me. good luck


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Thank you... I'll have to look into those medications. She's on Sentinel - no sign of fleas. I posted some close-up pictures. They almost look like pencil stab wounds. My other dogs swim in the same water, but no reaction like this. The vet speculates a follicle reaction. ?


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

use2b said:


> this will sound crazy but I am an old man who has cured dogs the vet could not cure with " very used motor oil " new oil will not help or work at all.
> very old burnt oil from a terrible running car has stuff in that old oil that will kill anything on a dog. I know it sounds crazy but it has always worked for me. good luck


 That's a new one! I don't have really old motor oil. I don't change it myself... I take it to the dealership. I'll have to remember that one! Maybe Coca-Cola... hey, it cleans batteries. Okay, perhaps a bad joke.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Ow, ow, ow...oh, my heart goes out to that poor dog. 

What did the vet say to do? Those need to be disinfected, otherwise it will be awful


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> Oh. gosh, poor baby. Many GSDs have such sensitive skin. Those to me look like infected bites of some sort.
> Chigger bites, maybe?
> 
> What worked for us on Hans's multiple and constant skin sores was the iodine regimen, plus putting Penaten cream on the sores. Penaten is like a miracle. Zinc accelerates healing and has been a Godsend to us.
> ...


Awesome...I'm ordering it now!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Great. You can get the iodine at the drug store.
If her back is that raw, it may sting, so I would get a muzzle. If she can tolerate an ice pack, that might help. too.

I have had that tin of Penaten since December 1 and still have 3/4 of it.


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> Ow, ow, ow...oh, my heart goes out to that poor dog.
> 
> What did the vet say to do? Those need to be disinfected, otherwise it will be awful


They gave me no topical to treat it. Just antibiotics, analgesic, and pain med.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Normally I avoid antibiotics, but I would give them in this case. The area is very large and the bacteria need to be controlled. 

Please be sure to purchase a probiotic so as to replace the gut bacteria the antibiotic will kill. Otherwise you will add diarrhea to her problems. 

The iodine is wonderful to have in the house and is great for any skin things that crop up. 
Is it still bleeding as in the above pics?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

use2b said:


> this will sound crazy but I am an old man who has cured dogs the vet could not cure with " very used motor oil " new oil will not help or work at all.
> very old burnt oil from a terrible running car has stuff in that old oil that will kill anything on a dog. I know it sounds crazy but it has always worked for me. good luck


Burnt motor oil is an old regimen........we would mix it with flowers of sulfur from the drug store. Yes, it helped. Of course they gave kids sulfur and cod liver oil to kill worms when my grandmother was little. Every spring. The dog we used it on ultimately developed skin cancer. I am a big fan of old time/natural methods but burnt motor oil is full of all kinds of cancer causing stuff. Not sure what she got into though.

When Grim got a staph infection on his paw the vet had us soak him twice a day in provodone-iodine in addition to the antibiotics.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> When Grim got a staph infection on his paw the vet had us soak him twice a day in provodone-iodine in addition to the antibiotics.


Works wonders, that stuff! Should be in everyone's medicine cabinet! I thought it would stain, but diluted as per the above video to look like iced tea, it does not stain.


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> Normally I avoid antibiotics, but I would give them in this case. The area is very large and the bacteria need to be controlled.
> 
> Please be sure to purchase a probiotic so as to replace the gut bacteria the antibiotic will kill. Otherwise you will add diarrhea to her problems.
> 
> ...


 Yes, she's still oozing. I have iodine...should I put it on now, or wait?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Silver Shield Gel (collodial silver)
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Nataures-Sunshyine-Silver-Shield-tube/dp/B0055O8N4G/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1400012945&sr=8-8&keywords=silver+shield+gel[/ame]

Worked wonders on Jax when she has infected elbow callouses. Provided instant relief from the itching


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> Silver Shield Gel (collodial silver)
> Amazon.com: Nataure's Sunshyine Silver Shield Gel 3 oz. tube: Everything Else
> 
> Worked wonders on Jax when she has infected elbow callouses. Provided instant relief from the itching


Thank you!


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

HARTMYRESCUES said:


> Yes, she's still oozing. I have iodine...should I put it on now, or wait?


I would talk with the vet. The iodine I used was a dilute solution and I soaked him in it for 10 minutes at a time. What I did was soak towels and hold them on his paw. ........... But ask the vet!


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

You can put coconut oil on the rash. It is very soothing. Calendula cream would also be helpful. 

I would keep him out of that water until the rash has healed. AFter that he should be thoroughly rinsed when he comes out. 

Last summer Rafi got a horrible rash in his groin from something in the lake. It spread and spread. I tried everything but it wouldn't completely go away. The vet finally sold me Chlorhexidine pads and I treated him for two days and the rash was gone!


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## Oliver'smom (Aug 15, 2013)

You may want to get a shirt for her to wear for the next little while as well. It will help with sunburn, ensuring she doesn't get any oozing or antibiotics on furniture and help the wounds heal. 

I'm at a loss on a cause. Any poison ivy or poison oak in your area. My brother got it bad with blisters once.


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## GSDAlphaMom (Jul 20, 2010)

Could it be a hotspot? Moses had one a few years ago that went from the size of a dime to the entire side of his face over night. Do a search on here for Moses hotspot and you can see pics and treatment recommendations. 

Vertericyn is handy to keep on hand.

Something else to consider:

*Pythiosis of the skin* (or cutaneous pythiosis) results in the development of swollen, non-healing wounds, and invasive masses of ulcerated pus-filled nodules and draining tracts. Tissue death (necrosis) follows, with the affected skin eventually turning black and wasting.

*Causes*


This infection is caused by direct contact with water that accommodates _Pythium insidiosum_, a water borne fungal parasite. It is usually swallowed or inhaled by the dog, and from there makes its way to the animal's intestinal tract.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> I would talk with the vet. The iodine I used was a dilute solution and I soaked him in it for 10 minutes at a time. What I did was soak towels and hold them on his paw. ........... But ask the vet!


Absolutely. I would check with the vet first.


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## Msmaria (Mar 2, 2013)

Most dogs don't get poison ivy in that location because of the hair but very possible if they are under it in a brush where it is brushing through the hair and touching the skin. Something worth checking out as it does cause blisters. I hope what ever it is your girl gets better soon, that looks painful.


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

BowWowMeow said:


> You can put coconut oil on the rash. It is very soothing. Calendula cream would also be helpful.
> 
> I would keep him out of that water until the rash has healed. AFter that he should be thoroughly rinsed when he comes out.
> 
> Last summer Rafi got a horrible rash in his groin from something in the lake. It spread and spread. I tried everything but it wouldn't completely go away. The vet finally sold me Chlorhexidine pads and I treated him for two days and the rash was gone!


Thank you. It looks like a great topical. I'll give it a shot.


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Oliver'smom said:


> You may want to get a shirt for her to wear for the next little while as well. It will help with sunburn, ensuring she doesn't get any oozing or antibiotics on furniture and help the wounds heal.
> 
> I'm at a loss on a cause. Any poison ivy or poison oak in your area. My brother got it bad with blisters once.


That's a great idea! I noticed the sun was irritating it when we went out.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I take it there is no skin reaction anywhere else on her body?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

May be a reaction to the Sentinal


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Did the vet do a skin scaping?


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

You need to see a veterinary dermatologist if it does not clear up. Looks like some kind of reaction to me

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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

GatorBytes said:


> May be a reaction to the Sentinal


This! Do you put that stuff on his back?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

BowWowMeow said:


> This! Do you put that stuff on his back?


No.

Sentinel for Dogs - Heartworm & Flea Prevention - 1800PetMeds


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

honestly i would try calamine lotion but i would ask the vet first
it looks painful


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## BahCan (May 29, 2010)

You could ask your vet about Flamazine cream to rub on it, it will help soothe and is anti bacterial.


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## blackshep (Aug 3, 2012)

pyoderma? 

I don't think it's a venomous bite, that would be more localized, and with a snake bite, extreme swelling at the location. It would have been very apparent almost immediately that something was seriously wrong. 

If it's just one spot, could she have gone through something like poison oak/ivy/sumac/giant hogweed?

Or, could your shampoo have not been rinsed off thoroughly and caused irritation?

Your poor pup! Hope it heals up quickly and it's just a one-off incident!


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## HARTMYRESCUES (Mar 21, 2014)

Thank you all for your responses. It definitely looks like a reaction to something. They did not do a scraping, which would have been very insightful. They said if it doesn't clear from the antibiotics, then a scraping will be the next step. 

She seems better today, and is back to her playful self with swiping shoes or clothes to play a game of chase. The sores are scabbing over and the vet's office said to not allow hard scabs to form. She suggested using a water hose to try to detach any hard scabs. Seems a bit too painful to me.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't know if this thread will be of any help http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/384578-severe-itchiness-baffles-vet-12.html


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

HARTMYRESCUES said:


> . The sores are scabbing over and the vet's office said to not allow hard scabs to form. She suggested using a water hose to try to detach any hard scabs. Seems a bit too painful to me.


The cream should help with this. 
A friend didn't order the Penaten from Amazon, but she had success getting rid of a sore with zinc cream she found at WalMart.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

question: what are you feeding. 

I have a couple of girls with boils right now, and I am wondering if it might be food-related as the girls are not related.


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

use a water hose to detach the scabs!???
no do not do that
antibacterial ointment would work to keep them soft or that cream you got from amazon or wherever
but gosh we dont get in the shower and try to scrape off our scabs 
that would only delay healing so why would anyone do it to a dog??
smh


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

You don't always want to rub antibiotic cream on wounds as it can prematurely heal surface openings while leaving deep wounds open. 

You also sometimes want to leave wounds open to promote drainage and prevent infection. I don't think they meant run the garden hose over the dog. But we often tell owners to soak with a warm compress (wet wash cloth, which I would recommend in this case) and rub off or remove any forming scabs after softening and soaking them.

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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

my boy diesel said:


> use a water hose to detach the scabs!???
> no do not do that
> antibacterial ointment would work to keep them soft or that cream you got from amazon or wherever
> but gosh we dont get in the shower and try to scrape off our scabs
> ...


This allows the wound to basically heal from the inside out and prevent trapped bacteria. It's the same thing I do to my boy when his staph infection on his nose flares up. 

Delayed healing often leads to clean healing when done properly

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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

a warm saline compress i could see 
*She suggested using a water hose to try to detach any hard scabs.*
but this?
no way
and even plain water will cause temporary softening but scabbing and drying over again when the water dries


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

my boy diesel said:


> a warm saline compress i could see
> *She suggested using a water hose to try to detach any hard scabs.*
> but this?
> no way
> and even plain water will cause temporary softening but scabbing and drying over again when the water dries


Warm saline will harden as well. I've never done a warm saline compress. Simple warm washcloth held on for 10-15 minutes.

Unless a wet to dry bandage is used scabbing will return no matter what which is why repeat compress 4-5 times throughout the day until sufficient healing has occured, which is when scabbing will no longer occur and you'll simply have a soft pink tissue over the wound

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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

Vet dermatologist asap. https://www.acvd.org/tools/locator/locator.asp?id=16


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## Anubis_Star (Jul 25, 2012)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Vet dermatologist asap. https://www.acvd.org/tools/locator/locator.asp?id=16



:thumbup:

I would not go back to your vet if it does not clear up. Obviously they have no idea what it is and you'll just be throwing your money away and potentially throwing useless treatments and drugs at your dog. Just like in huamns, specialists should be seen for the things they specialize in


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

GatorBytes said:


> May be a reaction to the Sentinal


 
Side Effects of Sentinel for Dogs

*Key Ingredients in Sentinel for Dogs*

Sentinel contains lufenuron and milbemycin oxime. *The active ingredients enter the dog's pores* and are stored in the fat cells. When a parasite ingests blood, they receive a dose of the medications that alter their health, leading to death. 


Sentinel is an oral medication, *it may cause itchy skin, oily skin and hives.* Shampooing your dog with an oatmeal-based pet-safe shampoo can help relieve the irritation. If the condition continues, contact your veterinarian.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

The Side Effects of Sentinel for Dogs | eHow


This itching is often uncontrollable and irritating or painful. Pruritis may result from the accumulation of dead or dying fleas, flea excrement or a sensitivity to Sentinel. Observe your dog and ensure that the itching does not become unbearable to the point of self-injury





 *Urticaria*


 *Urticaria, or hives, are indicators of an allergic reaction. They present as itchy, red welts and may be restricted to one area of the dog's body or the entirety of it.* Hives are a rare side effect of Sentinel that did not manifest during clinical trials. If you observe hives on your dog, keep an eye out for other signs of an allergic reaction such as trouble breathing, swelling of the face, lips or tongue, biting at the paws, weakness and lethargy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> Vet dermatologist asap. https://www.acvd.org/tools/locator/locator.asp?id=16





Anubis_Star said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I would not go back to your vet if it does not clear up. Obviously they have no idea what it is and you'll just be throwing your money away and potentially throwing useless treatments and drugs at your dog. Just like in huamns, specialists should be seen for the things they specialize in


I didn't look closely at the pictures when I suggested the Silver Shield. I would be headed for a specialist. That looks horribly painful and has a high risk of infection with all that damaged skin.


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