# Labradoodle creator regrets his mix



## KZoppa

Can't say I blame him any. Personally, I've yet to see or meet one that showed any kind of intelligence. I would describe them as happy go lucky to the point of utterly stupid and oblivious. JMO of them


Man cross-Bred Labrador and Poodle into Labradoodle, Regret | Global Animal


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## Lucy Dog

I was actually just reading an article about popular breeds and it talked about the doodle "breed" and how popular it is in my area. 

Trending: Which Dog Breeds Rule Southwestern Connecticut - Trending

They really are all over the place around here. I definitely see more of these doodle mixes than shepherds. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.


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## KZoppa

Lucy Dog said:


> I was actually just reading an article about popular breeds and it talked about the doodle "breed" and how popular it is in my area.
> 
> Trending: Which Dog Breeds Rule Southwestern Connecticut - Trending
> 
> They really are all over the place around here. I definitely see more of these doodle mixes than shepherds. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.


 
Personally, I'm not thrilled with doodles. There is one that is about a year old in Dax's obedience class on Saturdays and that dog.... so not his biggest fan. Dax is still really young and loves everyone but he see's Tucker for group play time which is MAYBE 15 minutes and he's started trying to stay away from Tucker. He doesn't like him very much anymore. And I'm convinced a rock is smarter than Tucker is. He just does not get it. It's like the wires in his head are crossed to a whole other planet. He's basically just as poorly behaved as all the other doodles I've encountered which kills me because usually their owners brag about how well behaved and obedient they are. Their behavior says otherwise!

Tucker's owners paid $5k for him as a puppy. He's a year old now. He's freaking huge too. For that price, they could have gotten a smarter dog.


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## Lucy Dog

It mentioned in the article I posted that they're going for more money than most purebreds, but $5k?! That's crazy to spend that for a mutt. That's crazy to spend that for any dog that's not trained, purebred or mixed breed. 

I've never looked into it because I have zero interest in doodles, but I can't believe that they go for so much money.


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## sparra

Isn't it just the same old story?? 

If done right it could have worked.....but too many people who didn't know what they were doing saw a buck.....not much different to what we have in the majority of breeds around the world.....the dogs aren't stupid......the people are.


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## KZoppa

Lucy Dog said:


> It mentioned in the article I posted that they're going for more money than most purebreds, but $5k?! That's crazy to spend that for a mutt. That's crazy to spend that for any dog that's not trained, purebred or mixed breed.
> 
> I've never looked into it because I have zero interest in doodles, but I can't believe that they go for so much money.


 
yup! and that doesn't include initial vet costs. According to his owner, he was REALLY sick the first 4-5 months after he came home. He wracked up another $7k in vet bills and then once he was "healthy" he's been in OB classes since at anywhere from $100-$200 a pop lasting 6-8 weeks at a time. For what they've paid for that dog, I could have paid off my Xterra and my van! (traded in the Xterra for a Tundra so back to payments for a couple years lol). 

Mutts can be some great dogs but there's absolutely no way in heck I'd EVER even consider paying more than $100 for a mutt. but they asked how much I'd paid for Dax and I said $1500 + shipping. He mentioned Tucker was $5k + shipping but $5K?!?!?!!?! NO! Way too much for an untrained puppy. Not to mention he was telling me he wanted the smaller toy like version of the breed and they ended up with this almost 80lb dog. There's no standard! It doesn't matter whether they breed a smaller poodle with a smaller lab. Its mind blowing. 

For rarer breeds, I can understand spending a bit more but doodles are not only mutts but they are practically everywhere being bred. Just nope!


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## KZoppa

sparra said:


> Isn't it just the same old story??
> 
> If done right it could have worked.....but too many people who didn't know what they were doing saw a buck.....not much different to what we have in the majority of breeds around the world.....the dogs aren't stupid......the people are.


 
that's true but the dogs I've met (unfortunately way more than I cared to meet) are incredibly dumb. I always think of Carlos Mencia's "he was a di da di!" when I see a doodle. When I meet an intelligent well behaved one, I'll ease up on my opinion of them but until that day happens, they are dumb. The people aren't the brightest either but I'm not a huge fan of people so I won't comment further on that one lol.


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## Lucy Dog

$5,000 a pop and if there's 8 to the litter. That's $40,000 right there for 8 week old mixed breed pups. That's just insane.


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## wolfy dog

KZoppa said:


> Can't say I blame him any. Personally, I've yet to see or meet one that showed any kind of intelligence. I would describe them as happy go lucky to the point of utterly stupid and oblivious. JMO of them
> 
> 
> Man cross-Bred Labrador and Poodle into Labradoodle, Regret | Global Animal


Completely agree. I get a lot of business out of them (as trainer).


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## KZoppa

Lucy Dog said:


> $5,000 a pop and if there's 8 to the litter. That's $40,000 right there for 8 week old mixed breed pups. That's just insane.


 
that's more than enough for cover costs of breeding and whelping too. 




wolfy dog said:


> Completely agree. I get a lot of business out of them (as trainer).


 
I did a private lesson for an officer on base year before last with one. Sweet dog.... I've seen smarter fence posts. They'd had her since she was a puppy and she was about a year and a half by the time I was sent to work with them. They were consistent with potty training, had a posted schedule for feeding and everything and the dog STILL wasn't house trained. She had AWESOME recall but didn't grasp anything else. Ask for a sit and try to lure her into position and I swear, the dumb expression on her face spread further. Lights were on but the hamster in the wheel was dead. 

My mentor told me one time she's all but refused to work with doodles because there is really no working with them. You want to benefits of a poodle get a poodle. You want the lab personality, get the lab. Don't get a mix of the two.


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## Freestep

Don't get me started on 'doodles, 'doodle breeders, and 'doodle owners.

I groom several of them, and I just don't understand the attraction. While I've never met a mean 'doodle, they seem to inherit the worst of both Lab and Poodle, and their coats are a nightmare to work with. Some 'doodle breeders are going around telling their puppy buyers that their dogs don't shed and don't need to be groomed. ?!? So I get these 'doodles in that are a year old and have never been groomed, and the dog's coat is mangled and tangled and matted beyond belief, requiring me to shave the whole dog down short and start over, and of course the owners "don't want their dog to look like a Poodle".

These breeders charge $2000 and up for MUTT puppies, which automatically weeds out anyone who is the least bit dog-savvy. They tell people the dogs don't shed and are hypoallergenic, which everyone who knows dogs knows is impossible. So they get a lot of first-time dog owners who believe anything the breeder tells them. Then you get this hyperactive, high-maintenance dog with a clueless owner, and it's a recipe for a spoiled, untrained, undisciplined dog with a horribly unkempt, matted coat.

See, I told you not to get me started.


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## Carriesue

I agree with you on the issues these dogs have created but don't lump all of them and their owners in one group. I have a 'goldendoodle' who was a rescue, I did not pay big bucks for him nor was I seeking a 'designer' breed. Yes he has some behavior issues with other dogs but he's certainly not stupid, has the best recall on any dog I've ever owned, knows all the basic commands and obeys them 100%... He is phenomenal with children too. He doesn't have GSD smarts but hey not many dogs do!

Do I think doodle crosses are a good idea? No, will I ever buy one intentionally? **** no. These threads still get under my skin though... I guess I'm just feeling sensitive and this came at a bad time because mine has an intestinal obstruction right now and may need surgery.


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## sparra

It has more to do with the "type" of people who go for a dog like this than the dogs being dumb IMO. Most people who own these sorts of dogs do so for the "designer" feel rather than truly wanting a dog to train. Of course not every doodle owner falls into this category but many do......like I said.....the dogs are more than likely very smart......the owners......not so much 

Carriesue......hoping your fella is going to be OK......you definitely don't fall into the "dumb" owner category.


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## Rangers_mom

My friend has an adorable 6 year old labradoodle. Maggie is a sweetie and my dogs love her. I don't have a clue how smart she is. Seems to me that she basically does what is wanted of her and since she isn't a working dog I am not sure what more they would need. Another friend just got a labradoodle. Her daughter is severly allergic, would have real problems over my house in a short period of time. They have had their doodle for 5 months and so far no problems with their daughter's allergies. I think they paid about $2,000 for the dog, which is way more than I would pay, but that is their business. Their pup is adorable, but not really my style of dog. 

I wasn't aware that there was such dislike of doodles. The ones I have met were sweeties - not my cup of tea, but sweeties.


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## gsdraven

I'm going to have to defend some of the doodles. While I do agree that they are mixed breeds and not worth thousands, they aren't all dumb. 

I've worked with a bunch that a very smart, easy to train, have drive and are down right funny. That's not to say there aren't a hundred that aren't those things.

I do notice other dogs often have a hard time reading doodles, especially black ones so I can see why our GSDs who tend to be more serious when mature wouldn't get along with a doodle.


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## Rangers_mom

Sparra, the stereotype of the type of owners could be extended to GSD owners. I find that some people assume that I am that I am training my GSD for personal protection and they are afraid of him. That is certainly not a fair assumption and not at all true.


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## Shade

My parents have a labradoodle which they bought it from a nearby hobby breeder, not BYB. I grew up with labs; my parents had three labs, a lab mix, and a golden retriever. We met both of Samson’s parents; both had their health clearances and very nice temperaments

Samson's a great dog, hard headed but good health and trainable. The only issue is his coat, it is very hard to groom as Freestep has already mentioned because it's the poodle hair with the lab thickness so it can destroy clippers. Thankfully he only really requires grooming twice a year, he gets shaved in the summer and brushed out for the winter and he's ok.

Temperament wise he's a gem, my parents just started fostering for a rescue a few months ago and he's been great with all three foster dogs they've had so far from a small Lhasa to a fearful Dobie/lab mix. He takes the new foster dog under his wing and his steady temperament brought the fearful dog to the point she was playing with him and his patience was fantastic with their last foster who was a mix and high energy and just not quite right in the head. He's gentle with the small dogs but steady with the large dogs, from never being properly socialized as he lives on a farm he takes everything in stride.

Personally, I try to look at the individual dog rather than the breed itself before judging. I'm not a huge fan of the doodles but some really are good dogs

Edit: Just wanted to add that before my first visit to Stalworth I had never in my life met a good representation of a GSD. They were either fearful, bullies, and stubborn to the point of being untrained and ignored their owners commands. If I went by the stereotypes and the ones I had met I never would have gone to Stalworth and met their dogs and gotten Delgado. I never regret taking that leap of faith


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## JanaeUlva

KZoppa said:


> The people aren't the brightest either but I'm not a huge fan of people so I won't comment further on that one lol.


LOL!! That sounds like me!

A relative paid $500.00 for an AussieDoodle because they want a "hypoallergenic" dog. So now they have a 70lb nerve bag that has to be sent to the groomer, I suspect every 6 weeks, for a "teddy bear" cut because the hair is long, thick and fine. This was not what they anticipated - nervous, big, expensive.




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## carmspack

this is so spooky that goldendoodles became a topic on a GSD thread. Yesterday I was visiting with a friend that I knew since highschool days . Our plans for the afternoon together were interrupted by her getting a call to come in to work to fill in for someone who had a family emergency to look after. So our time was spent by my driving her around so that she could do her errands , then back home for a change of outfit , then to her place of work -- one of my book store haunts . My friend had her drivers licence pulled a few years back because she has a retinal detachment in her right eye , with no peripheral vision . When she asked me to drive , which her husband normally would do, she joked and said -- you better save one of your dogs for me . If I ever need a dog it better not be a goldendoodle--- they're so stooopid . So we then got into a brief history of the goldendoodle and the Australian guide institute. There was another reason that the poodle genetics were put to use , as explained to me by one of the organizers of the acquisitions and breeding program at Canine Vision Canada , pretty well back when the "goldendoodle" was just starting out --- and that was the poodle was used to improve the chances of good orthopedics (hips). Labs are at higher risk than the GSD.


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## Rangers_mom

Carmspack that is really interesting. When we would go to Seeing Eye club meetings there were no doodles. I wonder why. There were GSDs, labs, goldens, and a few lab/golden mixes. I always wondered why they didn't try to breed one of the non-shedding breeds as there must be blind people that would like/need a non shedding dog. Since the Seeing Eye has a very careful breeding program I have to assume that doodles just didn't work out or perhaps they never even tried them because they figure that they won't work out.


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## FlyAway

Around here they run about $2,000 from a "doodle" kennel, unless you buy them from a farmer. They are very popular in my area, so I guess everywhere. I think a nice purebred alternative would be the Barbet. Barbet Page


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## Discoetheque

I have met only one Doodle that I would allow into my house to eat my food and take up space. When I worked at Petsmart grooming, one of the groomers there had one...pretty little petite apricot girl. Smart, fully trained, extremely polite and a just plain nice dog. I don't know what her percentages were...she looked like a small, underangulated standard poodle to the point that I had no idea that she even was a Doodle until her owner told me.

Unfortunately, she was where my love for the Doodle ends.
There is zero uniformity within the "breed". This is a major issue with me even outside my personal preferences because Petsmart generalizes their pricing by breed, and I had quotas that I had to reach weekly. A 50# Goldendoodle with the wavy, wiry coat that takes me two, maybe two and a half hours of my three-hour cutoff. No big deal. But the 104# Goldendoodle with the airtight poodle coat that just won't dry...kills half of my shift, making it impossible for me to take other dogs.
There seems to be a wide range for coat type, size, weight, build. I've seen stumpy Doodles, I've seen stringy Doodles. At best, they've been energetic and derpy-happy-go-lucky (that was the 104# Doodle I had to bathe and brush...happiest dog ever. would try to hug you while you were brushing him). At worst, I've had to send one or two home for aggression during brushing or for even touching their feet. 
I regret his mix, also. I see where he was going, but unfortunately, that's not what the public got, and now we're up to our armpits in loopy neurotic with crazy hair.


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## KZoppa

As I said, if I ever meet a good example of the mix, I will ease up on my opinion of them but so far, it's been more along the lines of extreme disappointment that two intelligent breeds got mixed and now fail in smarts. It's always going to be a topic of varying opinions as it is with all things. 

Carmen, that's pretty funny your friend said that. Sorry she's dealing with the eye problem though.


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## Sunflowers

Given that the Poodle is supposedly smarter than the German Shepherd, I'm surprised that the mutt didn't get at least get some brains. Bizarre.


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## Freestep

Carriesue said:


> I agree with you on the issues these dogs have created but don't lump all of them and their owners in one group. I have a 'goldendoodle' who was a rescue, I did not pay big bucks for him nor was I seeking a 'designer' breed.


You're clearly not the kind of owner I'm talking about. I'm not talking about people who rescue 'doodles or get them second-hand, I'm talking about people who seek out and pay thousands to the breeder for a mixed-breed puppy that they think is going to be hypoallergenic and non-shedding, or some sort of status symbol as the hot new fad that will put them ahead of everyone else on the cul-de-sac.

I guess I have to hand it to the breeders, they sure seem to have a good marketing campaign going on. By weeding out dog-savvy puppy buyers with their mutts' price, they ensure that interested parties will be fairly ignorant in all things canine. With this pre-selected group, the breeder knows they can tell the buyers anything they want to hear, and the buyers will believe it, and gleefully hand over $2000-5000 for this cute pup that "doesn't shed, doesn't need grooming, and is hypoallergenic".

Sometimes I wish I didn't have ethics. I could make a mint breeding these things. No breed standard, so it doesn't matter what the dogs look like. No shows, no judges, no championships? I just saved myself a ton of money right there. My pre-screened buyers probably won't know anything about hips or health testing, so they probably won't ask, and since my dogs have "hybrid vigor" they don't suffer from things that purebreds do anyway. So no x-rays, no health testing--no expense there. As a mixed-breed, I can't do AKC obedience, so no titles? I saved myself a ton more money. Plus that, I can farm out my breeding females to "guardian homes" so that other people pay for their food, vet care, and upkeep, and I just take them back when they're ready to give me more puppies. Look at that, there's hardly anything left for me to pay for. It's all income and hardly any outgo. Smart!

See, look at that, I got started. 

Don't be thinking I hate the dogs themselves, because I don't. It's not the dog's fault he was born and bred for the wrong reasons, and that he has a nightmare of a coat to deal with. Like I said, I've never seen a mean or aggressive 'doodle--mostly, they're just doofy, happy-go-lucky, hyperactive, stubborn, and spoiled. But then, since the 'doodle phenomenon is relatively new, most of the 'doodles I see are young, so that could account for the behavior. I do groom a couple of older 'doodles that are reasonably calm and well-behaved. Now if I can just get their owners to understand that these dogs have the most high-maintenance coat you can possibly imagine, maybe I can actually get them on a grooming schedule, instead of having them come in when the dog is a year old and shelled with mats and say "The breeder told me that brushing will ruin his coat, so he might have some tangles, but don't shave him! I don't want him to look like a Poodle!"

Some 'doodle owners are very nice people, don't get me wrong. They are mostly just naïve victims of the breeders' scam, and they know very little about dogs--many are first-time dog owners. Everything they "know" has been spoonfed to them by the breeders. I actually feel a little sorry for these people, as they have no idea what they are getting into in terms of grooming.

The owners that test my patience are the owners that spout off the breeder's marketing hype as though it were truth, and then think *I* am stupid because I tell them otherwise. I actually had a client say "I keep getting hair in the brush when I brush her, but it can't be from shedding, since these dogs don't shed." I said "That's because they DO shed. Everything with hair will shed to some degree". He looked at me like *I* was the ignorant one.


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## skier16

Their is a lady at my dog park with two of them and to me they just seem to have the demeanor of labs with the ugly looks of poodles (sorry poodle people). I guess the non-shedding part can be nice but I dont think they are desirable at all.


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## carmspack

the other experimental breed was "labernese" . this was to input some of the sobriety and sense of duty or responsibility that a "herding" breed would provide . Bernese and not GSD in this case because the Bernese has virtually no suspicion and is low on aggression .

the Labradors and especially Golden Retrievers were much too distracted by admiring attention from people in the common environment when at work. I saw it first hand. When I was putting dogs into the guide program I was able to shadow their excursions into the busiest parts of downtown Toronto. The trainer , who had invited me , was on one side of the street, and I was the observer along with a person from the foundation who was evaluating, possibly selecting "cuts" . The golden retrievers were overtly friendly seeking attention. All it took was some passerby to make a comment , and the dog would swing away from the course to get the attention - or actively seek it. The GSD were blinkered - ploughed through distractions .
So yesterday when I dropped my friend off , of course I had to go see what was fresh for August in the magazine rack.

Okay -- so I found a magazine that tickles the brain ! 
Mental_floss -- and on page 18 is an article accompanied by a picture of a very elegantly dressed gentleman circa 1920's , hat and cane looking like a monopoly game character in person.

This article recounts Dorothy Harrison Eustis astonishment of seeing specialized training of dogs , training to guide blinded German WW 1 veterans. So impressed at the independence they gained that she wrote a piece for 
The Saturday Evening Post extolling the virtues of these German Shepherd Dogs .

Her words "Called from his play , a dog advanced in his work is ridiculously like a business man called to his office".

that is what I am talking about in the GSD being so sober - blinkered to extraneous stimulation . 

From this newspaper entry a connection of Eustis was made to Frank Morris , who took up a challenge posed by Eustis , and coming back from Europe was true to his end of the bargain and did public relations showing the value of the dog as a guide dog.

that picture then is of Frank Morris and his steel gray GSD Buddy. 

Now there is something to aim for !


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## Merciel

Rangers_mom said:


> Since the Seeing Eye has a very careful breeding program I have to assume that doodles just didn't work out or perhaps they never even tried them because they figure that they won't work out.


I would imagine it's incredibly difficult to get the consistency a service program needs from F1 crosses, which virtually all doodles are.

There are service poodles. I've met a couple, including one really phenomenal black Standard Poodle who was a dual psychiatric service dog and Seeing Eye dog. They do a good job filling the need for non-shedding service dogs. I've heard anecdotally of Portuguese Water Dogs working as service dogs too, although I have never personally met any. But I'm told they can do a good job.


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## carmspack

a hunting bred (working) poodle can be an amazing dog - too many are bred pet only by hobby breeders . 

"The Standard Poodle _was originally_ bred for use as a *hunting dog*
much like the Labrador Retriever still is used today. We were 
disappointed to discover that most breeders were only interested in 
breeding 'show dogs' and had no interest in the Poodle as working, 
hunting or any type of athletic sporting dog

We believe the Standard Poodle should be structurally and mentally 
able to perform the tasks it was originally bred to do!"

does that have a familiar ring to it ?


I absolutely love the poodles here Paris Poodles- Standard Poodle breeder, Labradoodle looking and acting Poodles in red, apricot, silver, black standard Poodles in Vancouver Fraser Valley British Columbia BC B.C. Canada


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## Merciel

It's telling that they have to advertise working poodles as "Labradoodle looking and acting," though, isn't it?

What a topsy-turvy world we live in when a purebred designed to be consistent has to be marketed as "similar" to a crossbreed that's anything but.


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## DaniFani

Lucy Dog said:


> $5,000 a pop and if there's 8 to the litter. That's $40,000 right there for 8 week old mixed breed pups. That's just insane.


Gosh, that's insane!!! Especially since we see SO many in rescue. Just craziness!!


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## fuzzybunny

The ones I've met have all been lovely dogs. Perhaps I didn't spend enough time with them to assess their intelligence but I'm not sure why I really need an intelligent dog. Unless it's going to get a job, drive me to work, or run my errands for me, I'm o.k. with a not so bright dog. In fact, sometimes I think my dogs are too smart and wish they were a little dumber. 

As for bad behaviour, in the words of DoggieDad, train and socialize your dog


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## Gharrissc

I guess I haven't run into some of the problems that some of you have seen with Doodles because I haven't met a bunch of them. I've had a GoldenDoodle and a LabraDoodle come through my rescue who were hyper and didn't listen initially because they weren't trained, but neither of them had any problems with grasping the idea of learning. Just like anything else, there will be bad representations, but I don't think that every Doodle is stupid either. That's just like saying all GSD have nasty temperaments.


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## KZoppa

See there obviously are good examples out there but for me they're few and far between. I'd honestly like to meet a good example of a doodle. Still wouldn't make me ever desire one in my family but it would be nice to meet one or two that don't make me think "wow... stupidity should hurt!" They're friendly and goofy but I really don't go for the dumb dumb personality types. I like intelligent dogs. I like intelligent dogs who actually act and show their intelligence. I would consider a standard poodle but never a doodle. I'd have to really search for the perfect breeder for a poodle though. I want the intelligence.


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## Freestep

I don't think 'doodles are stupid. I think they ACT stupid. Their owners don't train them and allow them to get away with rude and boisterous behavior; basically, the dog trains the human. 

Doodles tend to be hyperactive like a Lab, and bouncy like a Poodle. Some of them are sensitive like a Poodle, yet stubborn at the same time. Many do not seem to inherit the Lab's desire to please people, but have the manipulative powers of the Poodle, which is not a good combination for a naive dog owner. All of this could be downright dangerous if the "breed" was aggressive, but thankfully, they don't seem to have a mean bone in their bodies. I hope and pray that it remains so, but I don't think it will, as this "breed" lends itself extremely well to the worst of the backyard breeders/puppymills.


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## KZoppa

Freestep said:


> I don't think 'doodles are stupid. I think they ACT stupid. Their owners don't train them and allow them to get away with rude and boisterous behavior; basically, the dog trains the human.
> 
> Doodles tend to be hyperactive like a Lab, and bouncy like a Poodle. Some of them are sensitive like a Poodle, yet stubborn at the same time. Many do not seem to inherit the Lab's desire to please people, but have the manipulative powers of the Poodle, which is not a good combination for a naive dog owner. All of this could be downright dangerous if the "breed" was aggressive, but thankfully, they don't seem to have a mean bone in their bodies. *I hope and pray that it remains so, but I don't think it will, as this "breed" lends itself extremely well to the worst of the backyard breeders/puppymills*.


 
this is true. I can definitely see it getting worse. Puggles are an example. Or Pugshunds. Chiweenie, I'm like really?! You get a naïve owner and any dog will walk all over them.


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## Anubis_Star

KZoppa said:


> Personally, I'm not thrilled with doodles. There is one that is about a year old in Dax's obedience class on Saturdays and that dog.... so not his biggest fan. Dax is still really young and loves everyone but he see's Tucker for group play time which is MAYBE 15 minutes and he's started trying to stay away from Tucker. He doesn't like him very much anymore. And I'm convinced a rock is smarter than Tucker is. He just does not get it. It's like the wires in his head are crossed to a whole other planet. He's basically just as poorly behaved as all the other doodles I've encountered which kills me because usually their owners brag about how well behaved and obedient they are. Their behavior says otherwise!
> 
> Tucker's owners paid $5k for him as a puppy. He's a year old now. He's freaking huge too. For that price, they could have gotten a smarter dog.


Doodles have to be some of the STUPIDEST dogs I have ever worked with. Not even joking. Just no common sense. In their defense most of them tend to be very friendly and happy-go-lucky, so I guess if you're in to that kind of pet more power to you. Just very little intelligence. I know there's always that doodle that's an exception, but I see them ALL the time, they are very popular in my area, and what I say holds true to most of them. And I know, that's really mean of me to say  It can just get so FRUSTRATING working with them because they stand there and give you that big derpy smile and don't do a single thing you ask them to - I like german shepherds for a reason! lol at least I know what is and is NOT a good fit for me.

My aunt has one that's a few months older than Berlin, and he's the biggest brat ever. Plus he eats EVERYTHING, which is very common in the breed. I see them all the time because they have GI obstructions and need surgery. My aunt's dog is a farm dog, and eats all their rugs. I'm just waiting for him to need surgery. Not a question of if, but when.


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## Anubis_Star

carmspack said:


> this is so spooky that goldendoodles became a topic on a GSD thread. Yesterday I was visiting with a friend that I knew since highschool days . Our plans for the afternoon together were interrupted by her getting a call to come in to work to fill in for someone who had a family emergency to look after. So our time was spent by my driving her around so that she could do her errands , then back home for a change of outfit , then to her place of work -- one of my book store haunts . My friend had her drivers licence pulled a few years back because she has a retinal detachment in her right eye , with no peripheral vision . When she asked me to drive , which her husband normally would do, she joked and said -- you better save one of your dogs for me . If I ever need a dog it better not be a goldendoodle--- they're so stooopid . So we then got into a brief history of the goldendoodle and the Australian guide institute. There was another reason that the poodle genetics were put to use , as explained to me by one of the organizers of the acquisitions and breeding program at Canine Vision Canada , pretty well back when the "goldendoodle" was just starting out --- and that was the poodle was used to improve the chances of good orthopedics (hips). Labs are at higher risk than the GSD.





Rangers_mom said:


> Carmspack that is really interesting. When we would go to Seeing Eye club meetings there were no doodles. I wonder why. There were GSDs, labs, goldens, and a few lab/golden mixes. I always wondered why they didn't try to breed one of the non-shedding breeds as there must be blind people that would like/need a non shedding dog. Since the Seeing Eye has a very careful breeding program I have to assume that doodles just didn't work out or perhaps they never even tried them because they figure that they won't work out.



Labradoodles started in Australia over 20 years. A guide school's top breeder received a request from a blind woman in Hawaii - it was her husband that had allergies to canine FUR specifically so they were hoping for a guide dog that had a low level of shedding. They originally tried to train poodles to be guide dogs for her request because the tight curl in their coat traps hair that has shed (so yes, tight coated dogs are good for people with allergies to dog fur) but they just did not train well for it - odd considering their intelligence. He tried training 33 poodles over several years, NONE of them successful. So he bred a poodle to his top labrador bitch hoping for a pup that would not shed like a poodle but would train well like a labrador.

3 pups were produced by this breeding, but when he tried to foster them for the training program no one wanted to take a mixed dog, so he told the PR team to call them "labradoodles". Saliva samples and fur clippings were sent to the man and there was indeed 1 pup that he was not allergic to. When the two dogs were bred again 10 pups were produced, but only 3 had low-shedding coats and did not produce an allergic response. 

So THAT is the true creation of the "breed". And everyone jumped on the bandwagon because HEY, here's a great new "hypoallergenic" breed!

So in the end, he DID produce what he was aiming for. But results were so hit and miss it was not worth it, and he indeed HATES how every back yard breeder and their mother is producing these dogs with no testing and no concern. There was a very real and good reason in the beginning, but when it failed attempts ceased as they should. Too bad it had already gotten out to the world.


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## RocketDog

Freestep said:


> I don't think 'doodles are stupid. I think they ACT stupid. Their owners don't train them and allow them to get away with rude and boisterous behavior; basically, the dog trains the human.
> 
> Doodles tend to be hyperactive like a Lab, and bouncy like a Poodle. Some of them are sensitive like a Poodle, yet stubborn at the same time. Many do not seem to inherit the Lab's desire to please people, but have the manipulative powers of the Poodle, which is not a good combination for a naive dog owner. All of this could be downright dangerous if the "breed" was aggressive, but thankfully, they don't seem to have a mean bone in their bodies. I hope and pray that it remains so, but I don't think it will, as this "breed" lends itself extremely well to the worst of the backyard breeders/puppymills.


There is a man who lives a couple houses away from me, who was in a terrible car accident and suffered multiple strokes after that. He is fairly incapacitated, especially in terms of memory, but takes daily walks with his two goldendoodles. They are exactly like you describe--not a mean bone in his body, but not a brain cell anywhere. It is amazing to me that they stay with him and come when he calls because they have no training at all---the other neighbor tells me they knock her garden fence over all the time, trample and eat her plants, etc. They break out and come down to my property all the time, but as you say, they don't have a mean bone in their body, so it's fairly easy to collect them and take them home.


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## KZoppa

Anubis_Star said:


> Doodles have to be some of the STUPIDEST dogs I have ever worked with. Not even joking. Just no common sense. In their defense most of them tend to be very friendly and happy-go-lucky, so I guess if you're in to that kind of pet more power to you. Just very little intelligence. I know there's always that doodle that's an exception, but I see them ALL the time, they are very popular in my area, and what I say holds true to most of them. And I know, that's really mean of me to say  It can just get so FRUSTRATING working with them because they stand there and give you that big derpy smile and don't do a single thing you ask them to - I like german shepherds for a reason! lol at least I know what is and is NOT a good fit for me.
> 
> My aunt has one that's a few months older than Berlin, and he's the biggest brat ever. Plus he eats EVERYTHING, which is very common in the breed. I see them all the time because they have GI obstructions and need surgery. My aunt's dog is a farm dog, and eats all their rugs. I'm just waiting for him to need surgery. Not a question of if, but when.


 
YES! The one in class, Tucker, had surgery not long before class started for an obstruction! He ate a flip flop and a sock. and when he got home tried to go back for more! 

I'll stick with the smart dogs. Agree completely: I know what fits for me and what doesn't. Doodles are sweet but no brain, no deal.


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## CelticGlory

My neighbor who recently moved had a medium one who was really sweet but hyperactive. I met another one at Starbucks who growled at other dogs and people. Would I ever own one? Yes, if it came from a shelter or was an owner rehome for a reasonable amount; however, I would never spend thousands of dollars on one.


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## lorihd

Well I have only known 2 doodles. both were sweet and a little hyper, although both of them were young. would I own one, probably not, but I really like standard poodles


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## brembo

I've been around many standard poodles and they are great. Smart, athletic and generally attentive. I've also hunted with real WORKING Labs. Dogs that vibrate with the expectation to jump in the water and bring me a dead duck. Smart, hyper-athletic and focused on work.

Now what shocks me is that the combo of these two very well thought out breeds is a moronic nerve bag. I would have guessed a mid to large frame with medium bone structure, mid fine fur with some curl and smart as the dickens. Standard poodles are tri-athletes really, bred for water and land retrieve, they can hustle with the best of them. Sport Labs are tanks, heavily muscled and have amazing stamina. Not the fastest, but they can go and go and go.


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## ODINsFREKI

There's a shady old dude who owns a liquor store and pawn shop in Columbia Falls Montana. He, on several occasions, had labORdoodle mutt puppies in a pen at the center of the pawn shop floor. Not only were the puppies ugly, they smelled like piss and showed no indication of having any intelligence whatsoever. 

God only knows what two poor examples were used to make this creation. They were asking 300 bucks for a poorly bred mutt. The third time I went into this pawn shop to look at guns, the puppies had poor water, terrible saw dust flooring with crap all over an their coats were not groomed and dirty.

That was the last time I went in that shop. Scumbag trying to profit off of something he knows jack about. 

This fancy, posh trend needs to be shunned and forgotten.

I had a real poodle as a child and they are a loyal and awesome dog. The SUV of the dog world. It protected me and my brother, hunted and kept us out and about. I guess all the show dogs and their haircuts made them appear like a stupid weak dog to people who don't know how sharp they are.


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