# Who should protect who?



## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Ok, I have a question that I would like to see a number of responses to and see if we can come up with a consensus.

I have seen a number of folks posting messages on here indicating that it is their job to protect their dog from all of the scarey things out in the world. not everyone but a lot of GSD owners seem to feel that way.

Now realize I am not referring to puppies in my question but fully adult dogs.

My question is this - Isn't one of the reasons that many people get GSD's in the first place is that they are a protective breed - willing and able to put themselves in peril to protect their owners and their families?

That is - who should protect who against the perils of the world? I realize that there are of course certain kinds of threats that people are better at handling. I am talking here about physical threats - typically from other people and/or animals?

Ok, lets hear some reasoned reactions.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I got my GSD so I would feel safer in my house. I live in the ghetto and alot of people around here are scared of GSD's. He warns me of any shinanigans going on outside my house and he people are aware that he lives in the house with me. But if a dog were attacking my boy I would do anything to get that other dog to stop. If another human was attacking my dog, you better believe that I will come to his rescue. My dog and I are a team, I would do anything to keep him safe and I know he would do the same for me. If my house were on fire and he were still in the house I would be back in there in a heartbeat looking for him. He is like my child.


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## Andy-jr. (Mar 1, 2010)

What she said ^^^^^^ except I don't live in the ghetto.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Here's how I see it:

Your dog is essentially a dependent. He turns to you for just about everything he needs in life, including security. It is your (the owner's) job to protect your dog from as many potentially dangerous things as possible.

Many of these things are obvious. Don't take him to places where he's at a high risk of something happening. Don't knowingly bring him around aggressive dogs, or people who would hurt him. 

Keep in mind that most dogs are not K9s. For every dog that actually WOULD engage in a fight to protect you, there are dozen who would not. Such is the state of the breed today. 

SHOULD your dog protect you when you're in trouble? Yes, I believe he should, provided you are actually worth protecting (meaning you've been good to the dog, and actually have a relationship with him). 

But even the most hard-core protection trainer will tell you they never WANT their dogs to engage. A dog risking his life for you is a last resort, and if you can avoid trouble, you should. If you can protect your dog from ever having to be in such a situation to begin with, you should.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

I feel it is my responsibility to protect him as much as I can and not put him in a situation where he would need to protect me. But if push came to shove, and I needed him to, I would expect him to and I believe he would.

I was just thinking about this today. We were tracking at the park and there was a guy sitting at a table back in the brush. Frankly, he was a scary looking guy. After seeing how Bison reacts with the "bad guy" in SchH training, I noticed some of the same behaviors with how he looked at this guy. He stopped what he was doing and stared at him similar to how he stares at the helper before starting to bark. It makes me think that if the guy did present a treat, that Bison would have protected me. I don't think the guy would have bothered me, but we went the other way just the same.

In a home invasion situation, I feel it is his job to alert me in time to be able to protect myself. (911, weapon...)


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## aubie (Dec 22, 2008)

I think of it this way...while I like having a GSD for "protection" I define that protection as being an alert system to danger allowing me, the "rational" thinking member of the pack, to then step in and act appropriately, keeping EVERYONE in my pack, or family including all fuzzy members, safe. 

My dogs are no match for a bullet, I wouldn't want them to danger themselves not knowing fully what they're up against. They don't know what a gun is. I do. They can't call 911, I can. They can't shoot a gun. I can. So therefore I have more resources at my disposal to solve the problem, so I should be the responsible one for their safety. 

Just how I look at it.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

our job to protect them. many things can harm them besides humans or other animals. they often do not have "good sense" and get into things that they shouldn't, eat things, do things, go places that they shouldn't because it could be harmful or dangerous. it's our job to protect them from all that. most of them, because they are a naturally protective breed, would return the favor if they "sensed" their guardian was truly in danger.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

Sage is a deterrent but its my job to protect him...it might be different if he were a trained personal protection dog. If I needed help I'm sure Sage would protect me but as long as I'm capable he won't and shouldn't have to.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Interesting responses!

I once had a Sch instructor who used to tell me (and everyone else) that many people used to think their dogs would protect them if they were physically attacked by another person but his belief was that many people would be very disappointed in their dog as he thought that many if not most dogs even from the "Guard' dog breeds including our own would be more likely to turn tail and get away,esp.if they were not trained in protection.

I can add that I am in a group(10-12 dogs) of folks that own GSD's and we meet every Saturday and I would guess (purely speculation based on what I have seen of these dogs) that the majority of these would back down if challenged by a "bad guy". These dogs are out of American show lines,BTW. Working dog line dogs might (should?) have a better percentage of dogs that would fight if challenged.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

codmaster said:


> These dogs are out of American show lines,BTW. Working dog line dogs might (should?) have a better percentage of dogs that would fight if challenged.


Don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I wouldn't count on it.

Many lines have become so sporty, that the only thing they're interested in biting is a sleeve.

Real man fighters seem to becoming less and less common.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

my dog is my pet/companion. i don't count
on him for protection, i protect him from
all things.

if i wanted a dog for protection he would be trained for such.


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## BuoyantDog (Aug 21, 2009)

atravis said:


> Here's how I see it:
> 
> Your dog is essentially a dependent. He turns to you for just about everything he needs in life, including security. It is your (the owner's) job to protect your dog from as many potentially dangerous things as possible.
> 
> ...


See above.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

doggiedad said:


> my dog is my pet/companion. i don't count
> on him for protection, i protect him from
> all things.
> 
> if i wanted a dog for protection he would be trained for such.


Well said except for the i protect him from all things part. I'll protect him/her from all potential things that can cause harm (aggressive dogs, bad people, etc), but i think dogs should experience as many people and situations as possible (as long as i know theyre 100% safe) as part of the whole socialization and life growing process.

I do agree with everything else though. If i wanted a protection dog, i'd have her trained to be a protection dog. 

People respect the shepherd though. If they see me walking down the street with my shepherd, i'm fairly confident no ones going to try anything just from seeing one i have by my side. The site of a GSD is enough protection i think and hope i'll ever need.


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## charlie319 (Apr 6, 2009)

My dogs (22 month old male & 5 month old female) do provide a factor of protection by the use of their instinct and superior hearing & scent, as well as a detriment by their barking and impressive appearance. That being said, a determined intruder will neutralize them as would a determined assailant. Once alerted to a threat, it is still my responsibility to be the alpha in the pack and provide the protection.

When we do go out, it is my job to fend off overly dominant and aggressive dogs, as well as to intervene in conflict that may have started due to the fact that two unaltered males will have one thing in mind when they meet. It is also my job to ensure that my young female's temperament is not squelched by some idiot's overly dominant dog which the aforementioned idiot is too ignorant to control. If you want to be protected by your dog, you simply want a pack leader and not a dog.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

I feel my dog will protect me by just being a German Shepherd. Most people will find a target with a less feared dog. I believe the average criminal when looking for a home to rob, a woman to attack, a purse to grab, etc, will skip the one with the GS hanging around. Especially the Gs who is obviously well trained and obedient and WITH the person. Maybe a bullet is worse but what criminal knows if there is a weapon available. I trust my dog to look like a GS.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I am the pack leader. It is my responsibility to keep my pack safe. In the event that someone is determined to do harm to me or my pack, I have taken steps to make sure that I am well 'equipped & trained' to take care of the situation. 

I was at a deer lease one time with hubby and our Aussie. He was a well behaved dog, that would stand by my side no matter what the situation. He would stand his ground with any livestock, fearless. But this day at the lease we came on a trap that had a litter of feral hog babies. I couldn't stand the thought of them in there starving to death. Against my hubby's better judgement he released them. The entire litter attacked me - I ran for the nearest tree, screaming like a baby. My fearless dog....ran the other way. It took us the better part of an hour to find him. I was over joyed that he ran, the litter would have killed him. But, if you'd have asked me, I would have said he would have stood between me and them, with absolute no doubt!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Lilie said:


> I am the pack leader. It is my responsibility to keep my pack safe. In the event that someone is determined to do harm to me or my pack, I have taken steps to make sure that I am well 'equipped & trained' to take care of the situation.
> 
> *What if you are out walking your dog and a drug addict (for example) accosts you and asks for money and when you refuse whacks you in the head. What would you expect your dog to do? Hide behind you or tear into the addict and protect you?*
> 
> I was at a deer lease one time with hubby and our Aussie. He was a well behaved dog, that would stand by my side no matter what the situation. He would stand his ground with any livestock, fearless. But this day at the lease we came on a trap that had a litter of feral hog babies. I couldn't stand the thought of them in there starving to death. Against my hubby's better judgement he released them. The entire litter attacked me - I ran for the nearest tree, screaming like a baby. My fearless dog....ran the other way. It took us the better part of an hour to find him. I was over joyed that he ran, the litter would have killed him. But, if you'd have asked me, I would have said he would have stood between me and them, with absolute no doubt!


*That is exactly what many more dogs than we think would do. I would hope a higher percentage of GSD's would at least try to protect their owners than most other breeds.*


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## IllinoisNative (Feb 2, 2010)

Well, I have a shep/rottie mix. I rescued him as a puppy when my Golden died. I was a female living alone and I wanted to feel safe. I knew I wanted something with Shepherd in it. It's not that I think he will protect me but I wanted that physical deterrent. I wanted a dog more prone to "alert" and to be physically intimidating. I don't mind people who cross the street when they see me coming. I'm okay with that. They don't need to know he's a Golden in disguise...lol. I feel safe walking in parks alone when I have him with me. I want to feel like they won't find my body floating in the river if I'm walking alone.

However, I also socialized the heck out of him so he'd be great with everyone. He's good with dogs, cats, kids, water, etc. You can trip over him, hug him when he's sleeping, put your hand in his dish (not that I recommend people doing this with strange dogs). But I have a large family, I go camping, I go to parks, etc. I wanted a dog that I could take anywhere and that is what I created.

So I get the best of both worlds. I have a dog that looks physically threatening but who is a mush at heart. I love it! 

In fact, a woman brought her 12 week old kitten to the pet store. The kitten was shivering when she saw my dog. My big, scary dog laid down on the ground, lowered his head, and avoided eye contact so the kitten would feel not feel threatened. And then he let the kitten check him out. It was SO cute.:wub:

IMO, if they have a good temperament (I lucked out at the shelter but you increase your odds by going to a good breeder) and you socialize them well, they should be EXCELLENT family dogs. You can literally do anything to my dog and he will not snap. In all of his seven years, he never has...with anyone. It's also why I like to start with puppies. I want to socialize them myself.

But it did take time and effort to get the desired result. GS's aren't dogs that you can tie up in the back yard or leave by themselves. They crave to be with their pack and they really do need to be well socialized. And it's my job to set him up for success by not putting him in situations that harm him.

I'm not sure my dog would protect me since he's never really showed any inclination to do so aside from alerting/protecting me from flying plastic bags outside. Heh. But I'm happy enough with the physical aspect of what he presents to others. I also don't think he'd run away if things got out of hand. A stranger came out and yelled at my dog thinking he was a coyote. My dog didn't run away but got between me and the stranger. He barked at the man until the man went away. He wouldn't let the man approach him which is what the man wanted when he saw it was a dog. But my dog also didn't leave me, run away, or allow the man to get near him or me. However, he also didn't attack. I'm not sure what that means.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

atravis said:


> Don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I wouldn't count on it.
> 
> Many lines have become so sporty, that the only thing they're interested in biting is a sleeve.
> 
> Real man fighters seem to becoming less and less common.


Thats because they don't want them anymore. 

However, I've got a manfighter in the house. When I walk my dogs at night and there is a man walking towards us... my female would attack if I would allow her to. 
BUT I know that she doesn't really protect me because of me, she protects me because I am her resource for food, water, shelter and love. 

I am not sure about my male though, he might actually gang up with her. They gang up on everything. 

But yeah... my female is definitely a manfighter.



> *What if you are out walking your dog and a drug addict (for example) accosts you and asks for money and when you refuse whacks you in the head. What would you expect your dog to do? Hide behind you or tear into the addict and protect you?*


That guy wouldn't even get near me in the first place. 
She builds herself up. When she sees somebody that is potentially dangerous she makes herself bigger, stares at him, stands still, walks, makes herself even more bigger and never loses eye contact. That's enough for most people and they will change the road side. IF that person continues to walk towards us in that kind of manner she'll start growl and bark. Yet one word from me and she stops because I take her focus away from the man.


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## mjbgsd (Jun 29, 2004)

Honestly, I did not get the shepherd for their protective nature. I'm a GSD owner/lover because I love the breed, the loyalness, the obedience, and lastly their looks. If my dogs can protect me that's an added bonus but I don't expect them too do it but it is nice to know that most people are not going to harm you if you have a German Shepherd by your side. 

I do believe that it is my duty to protect my dogs from all harm. I'm their leader and they are dependant on me for their resources.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Mrs.K said:


> However, I've got a manfighter in the house. When I walk my dogs at night and there is a man walking towards us... my female would attack if I would allow her to. ..........Yet one word from me and she stops because I take her focus away from the man.


That is the real tough part to get an "ideal" GSD - one who is courageous enough to fight and protect it's owner and yet discriminating enough to know when to fight and when to be "aloof" and just stand there without overt aggression. Tough for a dog to know! But the best ones do seem to know!

By the way, if your dog is barking and growling in defensive aggression and you can turn her completely off with one word - THAT is outstanding training and control. You are to be congratulated!


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## Jelpy (Nov 8, 2009)

I had this great plan when I got Xe that she was going to be my great protector. Then I discovered that she was afraid of the dark. She has done what I really needed her to do: Simply by being a large dog in the Back yard the burglers who came back to my house fled once they saw her. As far as the Rin Tin Tin factor....well, I got a nasty Virus, I mean fever of 104, this winter and got up to give Allie her walk, opened the door...and my legs gave out from under me. I didn't faint, because I remember being 
A:surprised and 
B: Relieved that Allie was there since she could now go for help. I was still thinking this when she hopped over my prone body and started on the usual walk route alone. 


Jelpy


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

codmaster said:


> That is the real tough part to get an "ideal" GSD - one who is courageous enough to fight and protect it's owner and yet discriminating enough to know when to fight and when to be "aloof" and just stand there without overt aggression. Tough for a dog to know! But the best ones do seem to know!
> 
> By the way, if your dog is barking and growling in defensive aggression and you can turn her completely off with one word - THAT is outstanding training and control. You are to be congratulated!


Thanks. 
All it takes is to get her focus off the person and all it takes is to call her name in a sharp tone. Another thing I do is to let her sit in attention right in front of me and maker her have eye contact to me. 

She isn't easy, very independent and one of the most stubborn dogs I have ever had though... she's one wild dog but she loves kids. :wub:


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Mrs.K said:


> Thats because they don't want them anymore.


And I think that's a shame. 

In my very humble opinion, the "ideal" GSD should be willing to lay its life on the line for its owner. Of course, again, that is an absolute last resort. 

What I respect so much about this breed is that they CAN be manfighters, tough as nails, gritty personal protection dogs that would literally tear the head off a man if that's what was required... yet can still come home to the family, and be a loving, wonderful pet. 

There's just some beautiful about that.


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## KITTIEG (Feb 28, 2010)

We got a GS for a pet & ended w/ a family member.:wub: 
We adopted her thinking protection & but knew she was shy. I love seeing her making progress. We've only heard her bark 2-3 x. But she will growl, A growling dog is far more scarer than a barking dog, IMHO.
As far as protection time will tell, but hopefully the need will never happen.
As a child, I was raised w/ a Alaskian Huskie, beautiful dog. Some say, too close to the wolf, some say too friendly. I know for a fact this dog save my little sister from an attacking sow, (mother hog) He kept the sow pinned to a corner until my folks heard the noise & investigated. My sister had climbed into the pen, she was 2. This dog love everyone & never show an agressive bone in it's body. But it was there when needed. 
Onna may never need to bodily protect me, but she hears better than me & I can be armed & dangerous when needed.


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## fightin14 (Feb 18, 2010)

protect each other. I hope that when I am on shift I can count on her to protect, or at least prevent by barking and being seen. when I am home i will protect her like i protect the rest of my family with training, knowledge, and weapons.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

atravis said:


> And I think that's a shame.
> 
> In my very humble opinion, the "ideal" GSD should be willing to lay its life on the line for its owner. Of course, again, that is an absolute last resort.
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you are talking about. I love those type of dogs too. Strong characters with their own mind, hard like a rock yet loving, affectionate and true companions.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

codmaster said:


> Ok, I have a question that I would like to see a number of responses to and see if we can come up with a consensus.
> 
> I have seen a number of folks posting messages on here indicating that it is their job to protect their dog from all of the scarey things out in the world. not everyone but a lot of GSD owners seem to feel that way.
> 
> ...


I am bigger and meaner than my dog. My dogs are companions not protectors.

Watch dog is expected, and I wouldn't object to them joining in a fray if needed, but protection? nope.

Hope is only 75lbs, and not aggressive at all, but a lot of drive. When she decides she wants to do something she's full on it and quite hard when she's in drive. If she did decide someone needed to be hurt I don't doubt she would do a decent job of hurting them.

But it's too much of a liability these days, so I try to teach her protection is my job.


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

i origalaly wanted a gsd to protect me and bond to me and be focased on only me but it went in every other direction. she is fearful. very nice and wouldnt do anything i was being attacked. if our house was robed she would say or think "oh boy oh boy!! a human! a friend! oh goodi!! the flash lights in the second droor in the kitchen! i can show it to you!! oh boy oh boy!!"


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## shilorio (Mar 21, 2010)

i origalaly wanted a gsd to protect me and bond to me and be focased on only me but it went in every other direction. she is fearful. very nice and wouldnt do anything i was being attacked. if our house was robed she would say or think "oh boy oh boy!! a human! a friend! oh goodie!! the flash lights in the second droor in the kitchen! i can show it to you!! oh boy oh boy!!"


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

Honestly, I CAN'T protect my dog physically better than he could protect himself. He has a huge advantage over me. He weighs more than me, and has natural weapons that I don't have. The only protection I can give him is preemptively avoiding situations where we would be threatened, like not walking alone at night, or I could try intimidating the threat. If it came down to fighting, I'd be useless. While he is a deterrent, I'm small, young, and female, so I am a lure. I fully expect him to stand around and watch me get slaughtered. He'd probably even try to initiate play with my attacker. He's a deterrent, not a weapon, and he's about as effective as me walking around with a large, unloaded gun. If someone gets brave enough to call my bluff, I'm doomed, and I don't expect him to protect me.

I don't think he's a coward, and I don't think he could be intimidated. At night, he's fully alert and watches everyone cautiously. If someone approaches me while I am standing still(signally that I am not inviting their company), he will pull on the leash, bark, and growl. But I don't think he would understand the situation if I was being assaulted. My trainer was answering a question for someone in our class and walked up to Chrono in a very intimidating/threatening way. Chrono stood up, play bowed, and smacked him in the groin with his paw. The trainer bent over in pain, and Chrono licked him all over the face while the trainer tried to push him away. I really don't think he understands human body language, or what a human 'attack' would look like on another human. I also don't think he would understand me being in pain.


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## Kamahi (Feb 27, 2010)

Alot of good answers, just thought I should throw my 2 cents in here.

I would protect any of my dogs with my life. I know it's probably supposed to be the other way around, but I see it as,
I'm their pack leader, and so basically I'm responsible for their safety. 

I know my springers, and my little dogs would run from anyone trying to "attack" me, lol.
:thinking: I don't expect that much as far as Kamahi protecting me, because he was from a BYB.(and he probably could protect me, but I wouldn't take a chance on that)

I do believe that his size, and his breed will deter a 'bad guy'.(and I guess just this once breed discrimination is ok )

When we're hiking, if he sees someone coming up the trail(usually we can't even see them) he'll start barking. I don't know if that means he'll protect me or not, but at least it's 'scary' enough to deter most people.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I know that Rayden is protective. He's demonstrated it a million times over. but, it's also my job to back him up. He can bark and bite, but I have a shotgun. LOL

and I DO expect it of him. It's his job to watch over things, esp the kids. freya, on the other hand, is an "every girl for herself" kind of dog and just doesn't care. She'll save her own butt and to heck with everyone else!

So, I don't expect him to save the world single-handed, but I do expect him to be out in the middle of it. He's always the first to know that something is going on anyway!


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

*What if you are out walking your dog and a drug addict (for example) accosts you and asks for money and when you refuse whacks you in the head. What would you expect your dog to do? Hide behind you or tear into the addict and protect you?*

Codmaster, One of the reasons I own a GSD is because he looks like a lethal weapon. If I'm walking down that street and a drug addict approaches, it would be assumed the addict feels no threat by my dog. At that point, we are in trouble. I would hope the dog would protect me, as any pack member would protect the pack. However, I will not count on it. Therefore, I have a CHL. I carry a weapon. 

My very first GSD saved my life. She did attack a man who was attempting to rape me while in the deep end of a community swimming pool. He held me under the water while attempting to remove my bathing suit. I was there with my best friend (who he didn't see). My GSD hit the water before my best friend could. My GSD bit the man in the face, who in turn let me go. I was only 14 at the time. My GSD didn't have an aggressive bone in her body. She rarely barked. She knew no strangers, everyone was her friend. How did she know that this man meant me harm? 

So yes, I think that it is in the nature of our dogs to protect us. But, I have no intention of placing my bets on it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Oh Lilie 
Thank goodness you had a wonderful dog to protect you! Your dog was clearly an Angel sent to protect you:halogsd: 

Hopefully that man is scarred from that well deserved bite to the face! :angryfire:


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Lilie said:


> My very first GSD saved my life. She did attack a man who was attempting to rape me while in the deep end of a community swimming pool. He held me under the water while attempting to remove my bathing suit. I was there with my best friend (who he didn't see). My GSD hit the water before my best friend could. My GSD bit the man in the face, who in turn let me go. I was only 14 at the time. My GSD didn't have an aggressive bone in her body. She rarely barked. She knew no strangers, everyone was her friend. How did she know that this man meant me harm?


Now THAT is what a good GSD is all about!

What a horrifying experience for you, and I'm glad your dog was able to take care of the situation. 

Another beautiful thing about this breed, which goes along with what I said before, is their threat discrimination. A dog CAN be a loving family pet, "never meets a stranger" kind of dog, but still realize who the bad guy is when danger pops up. I just find it so curious that most people _don't_ expect their dog to protect them in a hairy situation. I'm tempted to look at that as a breed issue, rather than a personal/individual one. That's just what the breed has become, it would seem.

Because so many dogs _wouldn't_, people have become accepting that they _shouldn't_. Again, what a shame.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

LaRen616 said:


> Oh Lilie
> Thank goodness you had a wonderful dog to protect you! Your dog was clearly an Angel sent to protect you:halogsd:
> 
> Hopefully that man is scarred from that well deserved bite to the face! :angryfire:


 
And this is the same dog that romped around the floor with my daughter when she was learning to crawl. Truly broke my heart when she passed, which was one of the reasons I couldn't get another GSD until Hondo. I still get teary when I think of her. Great dog, great dog.


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

atravis said:


> Now THAT is what a good GSD is all about!
> 
> What a horrifying experience for you, and I'm glad your dog was able to take care of the situation.
> 
> ...


 
I completely agree that a GSD should be able to be both a loving pet and aggressive when danger pops up. I also agree that too many would turn tail and run and it is a shame that people accept that. But, I think there is something else at play here.

Those who’s GSDs are pets and loved family members rarely see them in dangerous situations and don’t know how they would react. They see them as the cuddly companions that they are around home and can’t fathom them ever being aggressive toward a person. This is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. Three months ago if you would ask me if Bison would protect me from someone if I was in danger I would probably have said “No, probably not.” Now that I see him face the helper every Saturday, I would say “probably yes”. (One never knows FOR SURE until they are in the situation.) 

Since we have been training for SchH, I see Bison through different eyes. I have a much deeper respect for his bravery, strength and athleticism, his even temperament that allows him to be my lap dog companion and still try to kick the helper’s butt. Prime example was training this past Saturday. We were working on drive transitions with Bison and I was having a difficult time seeing the switch from prey drive to fight drive, so someone posted him while I stood directly behind the helper and looked over his shoulder. I watched the transition then gave him the bite command. I was amazed! I had never seen him like this before. Most of the time, when you are working your dog in protecting you pretty much just see the butt end. Looking him in the face was a whole new experience, and it is hard to recon that aggressive expression with the one that greets me with sloppy kisses each morning.

It is not surprising to me that those who have never seen their dog in this type of situation, or a real life one like Lillie’s (thank God she was there for you, thanks for sharing the story) don’t picture their dog as a protector. 

This is also why I think SchH works well as a breed test. You don’t really have an idea if a dog is going to fight or flight unless you test it. I know others don’t agree, and that is ok. For me, it is important and will always be a critical factor in my puppy selection process.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Kamahi said:


> ......:thinking: I don't expect that much as far as Kamahi protecting me, because he was from a BYB.(and he probably could protect me, but I wouldn't take a chance on that)....


 
The fact that your dog came from a BYB would have no significance in my oopinion. My first GSD came from the same place and she had a VERY protective temoperament (although she was also very friendly and outgoing).


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## APBTLove (Feb 23, 2009)

J has proved he will attack someone who attacks ME. If someone goes for him he's out of there lol
He's my boy and I will not intentionally put him in danger, we protect each other in a sense. He is mostly a deterrent, people tend to not mess with him or me while I have him, and his presence in the home, coupled with the neighborhood thinking he's a vicious wolf or something, is protection by deterrent. 

However, J can be killed just as easily by knives, guns, fists, a bat, ect as I can. 

I don't rely on him to protect me. I do take him with me as much as I can because I'm a 5'3 female who's not a ninja or anything :crazy: And just his looks tend to put people off. I would be more than willing to put myself in harm's way to protect him.

It IS our job to protect our pets. However, an adult German Shepherd is not defenseless. This doesn't mean your dog wouldn't run off if someone jumped you... but they might just as well fight for you. Every one of my dogs except a mini schnauzer proved they'd put themselves the way of physical harm to 'protect me'.


And honestly, looks alone from him are good protection.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

My reason for not expecting my dog to protect me is that the majority of people on this forum have said that, unless your dog is trained to protect you, it probably won't.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

*APBTLove*
*"I would be more than willing to put myself in harm's way to protect him."*


I would do the same for not just my dog but for my cats as well. They are like my children. I love them more than anything.

*Syaoransbear*
*"My reason for not expecting my dog to protect me is that the majority of people on this forum have said that, unless your dog is trained to protect you, it probably won't."*

My boy has never been trained to protect me, I have no doubt that he would protect me if I needed it.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Ruthie said:


> You don’t really have an idea if a dog is going to fight or flight unless you test it. I know others don’t agree, and that is ok. For me, it is important and will always be a critical factor in my puppy selection process.


I completely agree with you here, as that is an important part of my puppy-picking too. 

I love knowing that my dog comes from a line marked for its good civil aggression. I like having the odds stacked in favor of him fighting to defend me, rather than running away. I of course have no way of knowing if Mulder would ever actually BITE someone, as I've never tested it, but I've seen him confront a threat. Lord help the person if he ever DID figure out he could bite... as he isn't a dog who likes backing down.


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## Kamahi (Feb 27, 2010)

codmaster said:


> The fact that your dog came from a BYB would have no significance in my oopinion. My first GSD came from the same place and she had a VERY protective temoperament (although she was also very friendly and outgoing).


This is very true. Maybe he would protect me, maybe not. I'd hate to find out the hard way that he falls under the "maybe not" category though.
I'm just not sure I would be willing to place my bets on it.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

I have two GSD's currently - one is trained to a SchH3, one has basic OB. Would I count on them to protect me? Well, I'd like to think that if something really bad were going on they would give a good account of themselves. The fact is though I don't really know - I, like the majority of people, spend a lot of time (especially when they are young) inhibiting their bite. SchH is now essentially a sport, and while many people (including me) get excited seeing their dog sock it to the bad guy every week, the truth is they (the dogs) are simply following (and repeating over and over) a highly stylized routine which is in a controlled setting and bears very little resemblance to what might go on in real life. I believe that in order for a dog to do some real damage off the sport field it needs to have what is called civil drive/aggression - and most of us don't want that in our family companions because it can result in a dog that is more dominant, suspicious, and less friendly/social than we would be comfortable with. So I suppose the answer to the question is I expect to protect myself, and if my dogs are there to provide some valuable back-up I shall be pleased.
________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## Kamahi (Feb 27, 2010)

Syaoransbear said:


> My reason for not expecting my dog to protect me is that the majority of people on this forum have said that, unless your dog is trained to protect you, it probably won't.


That's what I've heard too...

I've also heard that the long coats are more docile, and less likely to protect you. :hammer: :headbang:
And that's one of the main reasons I chose a GSD, to protect me. I guess I just love the long coats too much. :wub:


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Kamahi said:


> That's what I've heard too...
> 
> I've also heard that the long coats are more docile, and less likely to protect you. :hammer: :headbang:
> And that's one of the main reasons I chose a GSD, to protect me. I guess I just love the long coats too much. :wub:


I think that's a rumor (probably started by someone who didn't like long coats LOL) Our late GSD was a LH - when I took him home from the breeder (Susan Barwig, she was one of the people instrumental in getting SchH going in the US back in the 70's and really knew the breed) I asked her that question - she said it was rubbish. (And she was right.) So I wouldn't give it another thought if I were you..........
______________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Anja1Blue said:


> I believe that in order for a dog to do some real damage off the sport field it needs to have what is called civil drive/aggression - and most of us don't want that in our family companions because it can result in a dog that is more dominant, suspicious, and less friendly/social than we would be comfortable with.


Now I don't agree with this at all. 

CAN it? Sure, but then, ANY dog could be like this. Even an Am bred dog can be "dominant" and aloof.

There are plenty (plenty plenty plenty) of PPD dogs that ARE beloved family companions, who are EXTREMELY safe around children and other pets. Probably even more so than your typical "family pet" type dog, BECAUSE they have such fabulous discrimination. 

And saying a dog that is more protective and more civil will blow off his family in favor of being less social is _compeltey_ untrue. These dogs are so incredibly great as PPDs BECAUSE of the extremely close bond they have with their families. A dog isn't going to protect you if he doesn't give a rat's patooky about you. That's why you can't just run out to the nearest trainer, buy a PPD, and expect him to be affective. 

You go through rigorous training WITH the dog, work WITH the dog, and forge a bond. Its that bond more than anything that makes a good PPD. A dog fighting for himself, or simply because he is told to, is nowhere NEAR as affective as a dog that's fighting to keep his family safe.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

I thought it might be interesting to see an example of a family pet (BYB female GSD) that showed off it's capability to protect.

I was umpiring a young kids baseball game one day. Princess, (3yo GSD, clever name heh?) was showing her friendly nature by acting as our local team's mascot, meaning they dressed her up and she sat on the bench with all the kids who spent most of the game petting and playing with her.

During the game there were a couple of very close controversial calls that I had to make. Some of the parents got somewhat irate with the calls. Evidently at least one father of one of the kids really got upset because as soon as the game ended he started walking toward me shouting obsentities and seemingly very very upset. I thought I was in for at the least a very unplesant confrontation. BUT, all of a sudden Princess, still dressed as the mascot, very quickly inserted herself between me and the irate parent. She started a very low, but loud enough to hear a few feet away, growl and had her hackles straight up and looked like a completely different dog than the one who had been rolling around with a bunch of 8-12 yo kids a minute before.

Needless to say, the gentleman changed his mind and simply walked away still yaking about the game; but suddenly not all that interested in coming too close to me.

An interesting evening and a great demonstration of a protective, but discriminating GSD. BTW, there is absolutely no doubt in mind that if he had continued to advance toward me, at some point she would have bit him! And one minute after he left, she was back playing with the kids again. (Although a few of the kids parents were looking at Princess with a new look of respect!) None stopped their kids from playing with her however, which was very heartwarming to me about their faith in our dog.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

With an untested/untrained dog the owner must keep in mind that there is a big difference in standing up to and protecting against an oncoming danger and a danger that is inflicting pain.

Not to put human thoughts in a dog, but when your dog stands between you and a "bad guy" does the dog think that it can be hurt or does it go on the belief that a big bad dog look can scare bad people away?

If the "bad guy" kept advancing toward your dog and yelled at the dog, if he pulled out a big stick and started waving it within inches of your dog, if he kicked your dog in the ribs and caused pain, if the bad guy hurt your dog in any manner, or if there was a gun shot close to your dog would your dog remain to protect you or would its own instinct to protect itself kick in and the dog take off to safety?

If your dog can deter someone by its looks (by being a GSD) that is a benefit.
If your dog can deter someone by its manner (standing/barking/growling - at least until the first pain - that is a benefit.
None of us can know for sure until it happens if our dog would be willing to stay to continue to fight for us.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

I agree that one can really never know unless its been tested. However, I also believe that some dogs are more predicable than others.

When I took Mulder to Sch club (as a guest mind you, I'd never trained in it before), they were doing distraction work with the starter pistol. When the helper fired the gun, Mulder immediately hackled and charged forward towards the man (we were nearly 40 ft away from him, helper didn't even notice). Mulder never took his eyes off of him, and when that same helper walked past us a few moments later to put the equipment away, Mulder (still hackled and now growling) tried to move in on him. Obviously i didn't let him.

But I made it a special note to go up to this man after the equipment was put away, and introduce Mulder to him. Mulder enjoyed the pets and attention :thumbup:

So I wager to say that he isn't gun shy


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

A GSD isn't supposed to react to gunshot, they should be neutral or at least immediately recover when exposed to it.
I would guess to say Mulders reaction wasn't of "protecting" but flight or fight kicked in, and because he couldn't flea, he chose to act big and scary(hackles/growls).
Did you talk with the helper afterward about Mulders reaction?


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

I have two male shepherds. One upon hearing a starter pistol the first time at about 6 months old stood up and looked at the person firing it. Didn't react other than trying to get a better look. When the person walked by later he never even gave her a second glance. When he was older I had him out around people target practicing and he didn't pay them any attention. 

My other boy would have been standing next to me for reassurance that all was okay. Now my poodle would be barking her silly head off and daring someone to come closer and then expect one of the family to handle the situation.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

onyx'girl said:


> A GSD isn't supposed to react to gunshot, they should be neutral or at least immediately recover when exposed to it.
> I would guess to say Mulders reaction wasn't of "protecting" but flight or fight kicked in, and because he couldn't flea, he chose to act big and scary(hackles/growls).
> Did you talk with the helper afterward about Mulders reaction?



I love how these things always get taken back to a "fight or flight"/fear response issue, without knowing anything about the dog in question. Because EVERYTHING a dog does is based in fear, right? 

I think I know my dog well enough to know that he wasn't lashing out because he was scared, and just couldn't get away. He's been around cars backfiring, heavy machinery at work, power tools, drills, nail guns... lordy, the list of loud, obnoxious, potentially frightening sounds could go on forever. Never so much as budged. Not even a flinch. And yet when the man pulls out the gun and starts firing, ALL OF A SUDDEN he gets scared? Sorry, I don't buy it. I've been a part of every single aspect of this dog's socialization since the day he came home at 9 weeks of age. I think I know how he thinks a _little_ bit better than someone who's never even seen him 

And yes, I mentioned it when I told the helper what I was doing. He didn't think anything of it. 

But I must just be ignorant. I must just not know enough about dog behavior. Because I don't think dogs should cower behind their owners in threatening situation, but actually engage a threat, I must just be crazy :laugh:

So much for all that good civil aggression and defensive drive the DDR/Czech dogs are born with! Its all been a lie!


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## Kamahi (Feb 27, 2010)

Anja1Blue said:


> I think that's a rumor (probably started by someone who didn't like long coats LOL) Our late GSD was a LH - when I took him home from the breeder (Susan Barwig, she was one of the people instrumental in getting SchH going in the US back in the 70's and really knew the breed) I asked her that question - she said it was rubbish. (And she was right.) So I wouldn't give it another thought if I were you..........


That's great news! 
I did believe it at first.(which really shows how much I know about the breed LOL, I'm still learning) I'm just glad it's not true.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Atravis, why so defensive? 
I stated that a GSD should be neutral to gunshot, not reactive. That was my point. 

You're right, I wasn't there, don't know your dog, or the situation~only how it was described by you. He had never been to that club before...

Fight or flight is a natural response, not everything is based in it, but it is an instinct that is naturally there.
Sorry you took offense at my comments...eace:


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## Sigurd's Mom (May 12, 2009)

We bring Sigurd to our gun club very frequently, and he's never had a problem with gun shots. He's been in the car / walked in a field when shots were going off of all kinds.

But as far as protection, I'd protect him to my best ability. I'd hope that if someone were rough-housing or acting suspicious, he'd try to defend his turf/me. I believe he would as he seems to be rather protective and watchful.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm not trying to be defensive, and I'm sorry if it sounded that way.

I just get sick of EVERYTHING being taken back to a fear response. 

I was actually once told by someone that dogs ONLY bite out of fear, and that K9s/PPDs are just fearful reactive dogs. That's the kind of ignorance I have to put up with. Sometimes it just gets old.

Sorry if I snapped at you :blush:


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

ILGHAUS said:


> With an untested/untrained dog the owner must keep in mind that there is a big difference in standing up to and protecting against an oncoming danger and a danger that is inflicting pain.
> 
> Not to put human thoughts in a dog, but when your dog stands between you and a "bad guy" does the dog think that it can be hurt or does it go on the belief that a big bad dog look can scare bad people away?
> 
> ...


I agree with what you have said here. We don't know how they will react until they are in the situation. But, I also think it is important to recognize that they SHOULD do this naturally.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

ILGHAUS said:


> With an untested/untrained dog the owner must keep in mind that there is a big difference in standing up to and protecting against an oncoming danger and a danger that is inflicting pain.
> 
> Not to put human thoughts in a dog, but when your dog stands between you and a "bad guy" does the dog think that it can be hurt or does it go on the belief that a big bad dog look can scare bad people away?
> 
> ...


Very true! Sounds like a Sch advocate! It is what the folks I used to train with would always repeat.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

atravis said:


> I love how these things always get taken back to a "fight or flight"/fear response issue, without knowing anything about the dog in question. Because EVERYTHING a dog does is based in fear, right?
> *You are right, it seems like some "experts" seem to think so, anyway. *
> 
> But I must just be ignorant. I must just not know enough about dog behavior. Because I don't think dogs should cower behind their owners in threatening situation, but actually engage a threat, I must just be crazy :laugh:
> ...


*Only those lines?*


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> A GSD isn't supposed to react to gunshot, they should be neutral or at least immediately recover when exposed to it.
> I would guess to say Mulders reaction wasn't of "protecting" but flight or fight kicked in, and because he couldn't flea, he chose to act big and scary(hackles/growls).
> Did you talk with the helper afterward about Mulders reaction?


Actually I have had a number of Sch and K9 trainers indicate that a GSD should react to the noise and be curious about it and want to go and investigate.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

codmaster said:


> *Only those lines?*


No no, I was speaking more in regards to my dog's lines.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

atravis said:


> ...I don't think dogs should cower behind their owners in threatening situation, but actually engage a threat, I must just be crazy :laugh:...


I have to be picky here. As dog owners WE need to be the ones deciding what is a threat and what isn't not the dog


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

sagelfn said:


> I have to be picky here. As dog owners WE need to be the ones deciding what is a threat and what isn't not the dog


We must disagree with that - sometimes the dog can make the decision. We do need the ability to override the dog however, and settle him down (turn him off!).

How would you send the message to the untrained dog that he/she must be protective? Remember we are talking about just that - a not trained in protection dog, not a PPD or a Sch dog or any other protection trained animal.


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

codmaster said:


> We must disagree with that - sometimes the dog can make the decision. We do need the ability to override the dog however, and settle him down (turn him off!).


by we decide what is a threat I mean what you are saying. No matter what the dogs reaction is WE decide if it is in fact a threat and the dog should obey.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

ILGHAUS said:


> With an untested/untrained dog the owner must keep in mind that there is a big difference in standing up to and protecting against an oncoming danger and a danger that is inflicting pain.
> 
> Not to put human thoughts in a dog, but when your dog stands between you and a "bad guy" does the dog think that it can be hurt or does it go on the belief that a big bad dog look can scare bad people away?
> 
> ...


And that is the very question I hope I never have to find the answer to.

Kaya would not fight for me, I would be totally shocked if she did.

Hope on the other hand is not fearful, she rarely ever barks, (maybe 2-3 single barks a month if that) and usually only a single warning bark at an approaching stranger at night time or something. More of test for a reaction and a message to slow down your approach kind of thing.

She also gets quite hard when her drive is up. I could see her taking a beating and only getting more riled up if she was as much in drive to bite a person as she gets when in prey drive.

For Hope a gun shot would be something she would be immediately driven to go straight to it and check out what it is to her satisfaction. Kaya would be in the next county and still running.

If Hope was to defend and bite, it would not be due to fear, but due to an internal desire or need she felt to attack and do harm. She would likely not be doing a lot of barking, just biting. I have no desire to find out what, if anything, would trigger that response in her.


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## trudy (Aug 25, 2008)

Since I am very new to GS I will talk about Belgian Sheepdogs and Belgian Tervuerens. I think most of you would agree that GS should be as good a protective dog as these breeds, well let em say I have been in several situations were the dogs have reacted and driven off intruders, cornered a possible rapist, bitten a potential threat to my child. Never trained for any attack work, only obedience and being part of the family. I have to believe these GS would not be less than that. And yes I do have many stories.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

See now, I just don't get it. If our training meathods are based on the "pack attitude", why would we question if a member of our pack would not fight to protect the pack? They may not be good fighters - perhaps only nipping on the ankle and not going for the neck for a kill shot, but if every thing we do to instill their behavior to accept us as the leader of the pack (one dog or 10 dogs) why would we doubt that once danger approaches they jump ship and swim to shore?

I could question if Hondo has the capability to take down an intruder (when he grows up), but I don't think I should question if he would attempt to protect the pack.


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

I consider it my job to protect him. If I felt that I needed that level of protection, I'd carry a gun. 
I wouldn't expect my dog to risk his life for me. He's a family member and I guess I look at it the same way I would if the question were asked of any _other_ family member. Would I want them risking their lives to protect me? No. So I don't see it any differently with Gunner.

That said, I didn't choose to have GSDs because of their protective streak. If that had been a factor, I might feel differently. 
Do I dislike the fact that they look pretty intimidating and will usually serve as a pretty good deterrent for the 'bad guys'? Nope. I don't mind it one bit, but I see it as a bonus more than anything. If push came to shove, I would want Gunner behind me. (Which is a good thing, because that's probably exactly where he would be! )


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

While I don't expect Jax to protect me, I do know that she senses "weirdness" and does react to it. I did not correct her barking and lunging at the guy because it was a really strange situation and the guy did act funny by freezing as soon as he saw the two GSDs. Would she follow thru if there was immediate danger to me? I don't know and hope I never have to find out.


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## crs996 (Sep 19, 2001)

I would expect my dog to protect me, but NOT merely because it is a GSD. I have seen many skittish, timid, adult GSD's that would turn tail at a human threat.

I chose my pup because he is from working K9 lines, and has several older brothers currently on active duty. These dogs work in tough neighborhoods and have multiple real life bites, and the breeder was a K9 handler as well. Although not a guarantee, I have confidence that with proper training and handling, my pup once mature will have the confidence to face a threatening situation AND be able to deescalate on command. 

I am not anticipating being attacked, nor do I want my dog to intimidate everyone, but I feel that the above are reasonable expectations of a properly bred GSD. 

I protect my dog from environmental things that all dogs should be protected from: traffic, poisons, physical harm, etc.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GunnersMom said:


> I wouldn't expect my dog to risk his life for me. He's a family member and I guess I look at it the same way I would if the question were asked of any _other_ family member. Would I want them risking their lives to protect me? No. So I don't see it any differently with Gunner........
> ....If push came to shove, I would want Gunner behind me. (Which is a good thing, because that's probably exactly where he would be! )


Wouldn't most people expect their husband/wife/significant other to try to protect them? How about the well known mother flying to the defense of their offspring? I think that most family members WOULD do their best to fend off an attack.

I would be terribly dissappointed in Baron if he did not do his best to protect myself and/or my wife! And we would do likewise for him.

I think the reputation and folklore of the GSD is that most people would expect this reaction, even for an untrained dog.

Certainly I would say that any adult GSD who does not display a protective of his "pack" is not a likely candidate for breeding. (likely to get a harsh reaction from some)


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Jax08 said:


> ..... Would she follow thru if there was immediate danger to me? I don't know and hope I never have to find out.


A big AMEN to that!


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Wouldn't most people expect their husband/wife/significant other to try to protect them? How about the well known mother flying to the defense of their offspring? I think that most family members WOULD do their best to fend off an attack.
> 
> I would be terribly dissappointed in Baron if he did not do his best to protect myself and/or my wife! And we would do likewise for him.
> 
> ...


Hm... I don't know. I guess most people probably would expect a family member to protect them. I probably have an odd view of it. I imagine if I had a husband or significant other I might be content to hide behind him and let him do the protecting. But it's been just mom and I for so long now that I guess I see myself as the protector - I look out for everyone else. I have no doubt that if I were in danger, mom would get more vicious than any GSD (lol) but the thought terrifies me. She knows I don't want that and if something were to happen, she's to get herself first (and the dogs second) to safety and let me handle it.

I certainly wouldn't be disappointed in Gunner if he didn't try to protect us. And I honestly don't know if he would, or not. He'll warn someone if he senses that something is "off", but I don't know what he would do if they kept coming. Honestly, I think he'd back down very quickly. And I can't even really say that he "will" warn someone -- I've seen him do it exactly once in almost 7 1/2 years. I don't know if that's been the only time he sensed a serious threat, or if it was just a fluke, or what. He puts on a good show when people come to the door, usually to the point where they're afraid to come in, but once we tell him it's okay, he's fine. And honestly, that's fine with me. 
But again, protection was never a factor in my having GSDs. If it had been, I'm sure I'd feel differently and Gunner wouldn't be the only GSD in the house!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

GunnersMom said:


> Hm... I don't know.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't be disappointed in Gunner if he didn't try to protect us. And I honestly don't know if he would, or not. He'll warn someone if he senses that something is "off", but I don't know what he would do if they kept coming. Honestly, I think he'd back down very quickly. .......He puts on a good show when people come to the door, usually to the point where they're afraid to come in, but once we tell him it's okay, he's fine.


Sounds to me like he might surprise you if it ever comes to that (And of course we all hope that it never does!)


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## GunnersMom (Jan 25, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Sounds to me like he might surprise you if it ever comes to that (And of course we all hope that it never does!)


Yeah, it's possible. I've never seen him as being the protective type, but thankfully we haven't had occasion to really find out! (I never thought he'd warn someone off, either... until he did.) So it could just be that he doesn't bother with all the posturing when there's no need to.

And surprising me IS what Gunner does best. lol. Just when I think I have him completely figured out, he throws me a curve. :crazy:


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I'd certainly protect my dogs. I'm also willing to have them protect me, though I don't require it, nor do I train for it.

As far as they're concerned I'm Queen*Bitch of the universe. As such, defense is my priority before it's theirs. Prevention is our primary, & I think best, safety measure. For starters I'm careful about who I let into my home & my life. I make it generally known that we have nothing worth stealing. My dogs, who are big, athletic, fearless & utterly reliable are an excellent deterrent. Why take on big GS in a house that doesn't even have a tv?

People rarely know what a dog will do until its faced a real life challenge. Even then, if the aggressor backed off, one doesn't know what the dog would do if the aggressor amped up rather than backed off & came at the dog with blades, bullets or clubs. Even many 'protective dogs' will retreat if their bluff is seriously called & the threatening person continues to attack, causing real pain, real harm & posing a serious threat to life & limb.

Atravis, I agree that not everything is fear aggression. I used to wonder why that response seemed to invariably pop up & then I slooowly came to understand that it *is* a major, major problem in many GS today, including some that are 'well bred'. This poses a problem with some 'protective' dogs...FA dogs tend to see the world as a threatening place. These dogs, if protective, are likely to respond inappropriately, endangering themselves as well as others. Another problem is that I see as much fear aggression in humans as in dogs & I shudder to think of the messages sent down those leashes.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

RubyTuesday said:


> ..........
> People rarely know what a dog will do until its faced a real life challenge. ..........
> Atravis, I agree that not everything is fear aggression. I used to wonder why that response seemed to invariably pop up & then I slooowly came to understand that it *is* a major, major problem in many GS today, including some that are 'well bred'. .....


Very well put! 

Fear Agression and/or shyness is a major problem in GSD's today. I meet with a group of GSD owners every week on Saturday and I doubt if more than 2 out of 10/12 has the tru temperament that one would like in the breed. That is, even just looking for an outgoing friendly approachable dog, much less one that would protect it's owner with it's life.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

codmaster said:


> Very well put!
> 
> Fear Agression and/or shyness is a major problem in GSD's today. I meet with a group of GSD owners every week on Saturday and I doubt if more than 2 out of 10/12 has the tru temperament that one would like in the breed. That is, even just looking for an outgoing friendly approachable dog, much less one that would protect it's owner with it's life.


And I got lucky and got one from a rescue.. 

Not shy, not fearful, but stable and friendly and approachable. She will sound off occasionally with a serious low single bark or two at someone acting scetchy, followed by checking them out personally not avoiding them. If something startles her, she seems driven to get to it and check it out and face it.

Dunno if she would protect me, but if she did it would be serious business to her, not fear. And I can trust her completely around people and kids, though she can take em or leave em, she's always gonna give a wet sloppy kiss if they let her, never a hint of aggression that I have seen to any child. She's not a pretty dog, and has her scars, but she has a great temperment.

As I said though I hope I never find out.


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