# I Think I Failed; Another Perspective on Giving My GSD the Best Life...



## Adelaide's_Dad (Jul 11, 2014)

I don't mean for such a dramatic subject line, but it is what it is. As I approach Adelaide's 4th month (I've had her for about 7 weeks now). I have to ask the question of whether or not she can get a better life with someone else.

I blame myself fully for not researching the particulars of raising a GSD. I should have come to this site BEFORE I got her, not after. I've had nothing but adult sighthounds and we all know how that's a completely different ballgame as they say...

So, here's what it boils down to given the recent change in my household: she can spend most her day in an x-pen and/or crate, with a newly hired dog walker to take her out for 1/2 hour around lunch while I'm at work. I'd probably spend a 1/2 hour with her before I head off to work, and about 2-3 hours when I get back. So that makes about 20 hours of confinement of some degree during weekdays.

I guess the question really is: what is a realistic expectation to get to the point I could leave her home to roam about most of the day like my other hounds? Six months, a year, two years?

My inclination is that this really isn't fair to her, or is that perfectly fine for a GSD for a few months/year? I've really no idea, I just need to do what's best for her before we really start bonding... 

For whatever it's worth, we do take her to weekly training classes at PetSmart, and I take her to the dog park mostly every evening to play ball with me and such, and to socialize.

Thank you,


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

20 hours per day confinement or 20 hours total for the week?

Either way I personally don't feel you're failing at all. Training classes (check) Socialization and exercise at the dog park (check) Walking/potty breaks with a dog walker (check). I don't see anything that a GSD needs missing. 

As far as crating IMO it depends on the dog whether it can be given free roam. My Zeeva didn't get roam till about 3 1/2 years old. Some dogs actually feel more comfortable (and are safer) in a crate so don't feel guilty about crating a GSD.

I'm curious though; what do you feel is so different about sighthounds when compared to GSDs?

I must also assure you from my experience that 4 months is really young. It gets so much easier after about 2 years TRUST me. I cried a lot after I got Zeeva because I felt like I was failing her and wanted to rehome. But she's turned into a fine young lady now and I'm happy I didn't find her a 'better' home.

As far as the bonding, it took us a while to develop that so don't let that bring you down...

Hang in there. I assure you, you sound like you're doing well. The only thing that I feel might be missing between your pup and you is a bond (and honestly that may not develop)...but be patient for at least a year? Then reassess...

That's my experience and opinion...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

People that own GSD's also work full time jobs Some don't even do the dog walker or middle of the day break, so you are ahead of the game. The training classes are great and help with training at home if you use what you learn. My female GSD was out of her crate permanently at 7 months. It all depends on the dog. I do come home at lunch to let my dogs out, so they never hold it more then 5 hrs at a time. Enjoy your dog, you are fine


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## Unforgiving (Jul 27, 2014)

Everyone else has already said it, I'm just gonna jump on the bandwagon and say that its good to see someone nervous about their dog. I havent got mine yet and I've done so much research that Im worried about researching too much, and not just enjoying the dog


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

I think the net makes it seem like these are super dogs and need extreme exercise and constant attention. When I was first interested in getting a puppy all I read made it seem like people didn't have jobs or lives and all they did was entertain their dogs. It didn't make sense to me, there must be people out there who have careers AND well adjusted, happy GSDs. I asked my breeder and she said not worry about it. 
Here I am with a 6.5 month old who is doing great when I'm at work and is happy to play with me when I'm here. I don't feel like he needs ridiculous amounts of exercise or play to be happy. My puppy slept in the crate, came out for about 2 hours in the morning, then back in the crate from 8-5 with a walker coming at noon. To us, being in a crate all day may seem cruel, I don't think the dog feels the same way. Not to down play your concerns, because I had the same concerns a few months ago. My boy graduated out of the crate at night, so he sleeps in our bedroom with the door shut. During the day he is in the crate and will continue to be in the crate I'm guessing till 12+ months. I will not rush it as I don't want to set him up to fail. 

Moral of the post is that you are fine.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Lisl was crated every day while I was at work until she was nearly 16 months and could prove she could act like a lady and not tear up my house. That training though, started when she was brought home at eight weeks.

Sometimes in poor weather during winter I couldn't get home for lunch so she had to be in her crate for up to nine hours. She was excited to see me when I arrived home, but she was none the worse for wear.

It's not always how much time you spend with them, but what you do when you are with them that matters more.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

it also depends on the puppy/dog,,Is your puppy otherwise happy? Doesn't seem to mind that 20 hours a day in the crate? If so, I wouldn't worry about it to much. 

I have the luxury of working part time, I will say, as puppies, and some as adults, if left to their own devices for 20 hours a day, only getting an hour in the morning and a couple hours at nite, mine would be going bonkers. I have/had some pretty high energy dogs that need more than that. 

I do agree it can be quality over quantity and it also depends on the individual dog/puppy.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

To make you feel better I also thought it was to much time in the crate with mine(she didn't potty train easy). I felt much better when I was able to let her sleep with me at night. In my mind that reduced her confinement and made me happy. She was 4 months when she could sleep with me at night.


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## Alice13 (Feb 21, 2014)

I understand how you feel. I get that feeling sometimes. Alice is my first gsd. When she was very young, although I was very very careful, she fell many times. Some places in my house were just more dangerous than I thought they were. Eventually, we learned and kept her away from this places. However she occasionally slips past us and would would fall again (she loves doing things that she knows very well she isn't allowed to) . Now as she matures I live in fear that she might have hip dysplasia due to all those falls. She never showed signs of injuries but then again you never know. So based on my story, yes keep him crated unless he is the kind of dog that doesn't go looking for trouble. They are more protected that way


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## Alice13 (Feb 21, 2014)

And as for your routine, it's fine. He will adjust to it.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

As I am not approaching saint hood, every animal I've had could have had a better life with someone else. They also could have had a much worse life with someone else. 

Sounds to me like you are doing fine. My youngest is in a crate right now. This is a "post breakfast" break for her (she eats in her crate.) I occassionally leave her out at night. She lost that privilege when she did not alert me in a way I understood and dumped on the floor. _When I was up and awake! _


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

20 hours a week in a pen? Oh man, that's fine, it's better than fine it's awesome. You hired a walker for your dog....do you know how rare that is? It's likely a fraction of a percentage of dog owners that go that extra mile. On this forum it's not so, but this IS a forum dedicated to the awesomeness of the GSD.

Also, a 4 month old GSD is a psychotic biting/shredding/needy ball of developing muscle. Get over the puppy-brain hump and your dog will reward you with a companion experience unrivaled by none. I have a 1.5 y/o now and she is a terror. Smart smart smart and loving to epic levels, she is just now beginning to even out a little into her adult personality. I'm seeing the potential for a real sweetheart, but I had/have to put up with a curious, athletic dog that has a sawzall for a mouth. I'd hate to add up all the stuff she has destroyed, it's pretty substantial. BUT, I will take my losses on the front end of the relationship because like I said I see the potential in her and I'm excited to live with her.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You don't have to feel guilty at all. I have had sight hounds for more than 20 years so I understand the difference you are experiencing. When the last sight hound died, I decided to get a GSD because of their involvement in their owners' lives, their loyalty and their energy. They are all I ever wanted in a dog but missed in the sight hounds in the end. Give it a good shot and it sounds like you are doing just that. But if you miss the easiness of sight hounds, miss them in general, and starting to regret getting this pup, then maybe a GSD is not for you. Be honest with yourself. I am sure many of us, incl. me, have taken on dogs that were not a good match.
The sight hounds were a good breed in that period of my life but as things changed, so did my choices for breeds


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

brembo said:


> 20 hours a week in a pen? .


No, 20 hours a day on weekdays.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Is your puppy confined at night while you are sleeping too?

If so, you might want to start letting her sleep with you. It will give her some feeling of closeness of her human. These dogs do need _some_ companionship on a regular basis.

20 hours a day is a long time.

I know your situation didn't start out like this, but where you are now with your dog is not ideal for her. She is, right now, in her formative time. She needs socialization and needs to see what the rest of the world is all about.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> No, 20 hours a day on weekdays.


OMG, I overlooked that number. That is way too long in solitary confinement. she does need regular training and socialization to become a well adjusted and content dog. Plus the discomfort of not being able to pee and poop when needed, which is not physically healthy.
You may get away with that with adult sighthounds but it will hurt the average GSD.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> It's not always how much time you spend with them, but what you do when you are with them that matters more.


Totally agree. My dog knows when I come home from work that we drive to the park, that he will spend the rest of the night going where I go--even if he waits in his crate in the truck (now that fall is coming), that we will play tug outside, and before we go to bed we will play ball with the glow in the dark ball outside. Somewhere in there we will practice some obedience.

You can be with a dog all day and ignore him. It's quality time that counts, even if it's limited. My dog gets to smell me all night and he's with me then, even if he is confined in a wire crate in my bedroom--he's still a precocious puppy at 6.5 months.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Not trying to be mean or bashing at all but if your puppy really spend 20 hrs a day in a crate then you should have not get one.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Phoey. Puppies spend 15 to 20 hours crated with lots of breaks. 8 hours at night, about 10 during the day is pretty standard for someone who works. Lets say you get up at 6:30, let the pup out & supervise, bring pup in, feed in crate while you have breakfast/shower etc, walk pup, crate pup, go to work. 8 hours work 1 hour lunch, 1 hour commute time. Home let pup out to toilet & maybe play. In & crate for dinner (yours & pups). Out for walk & play. Crate while you have a life, out to toilet and play. Crate for bed. It adds up folks. After all, one has to go to the store for groceries and dog treats at least. And one needs to shop to replace the clothes the dog has managed to destroy in it's time out of the crate...


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> Not trying to be mean or bashing at all but if your puppy really spend 20 hrs a day in a crate then you should have not get one.


Says who?


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

lalachka said:


> Says who?


Says me


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

As long as the crate is large enough for the pup to move around, exercise and training needs are met you should be fine. Is it ideal? No, but life rarely is.

My biggest issue with working full time and having a puppy, especially a GSD pup is making up for that time they spend away from you. So even when I've worked a full day and am exhausted I still had to come home to a extremely excited and raring to go pup and it was back out again for training and exercise. I survived it and you can to, and it will be well worth it.

Also hopefully you have more hours on weekends set aside for her, that will help as well with making up for that time lost during the week

Keep at it


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> Says me


There's always someone who thinks you aren't good enough to have a dog too.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

Well if you are one of those people then it doesnt bother me cause u go around thread talk smack


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Ace GSD said:


> Well if you are one of those people then it doesnt bother me cause u go around thread talk smack


I couldn't care less about you or who you get. My point is, if you're going to tell others they shouldn't own a dog then others (better dog owners than you) will do the same to you

ETA actually wasn't it you that got a dog without making sure you're allowed to have one. Everyone is so freaking quick to knock others.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

True that was my mistake so when someone made a mistake they cant have opinion ?


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...is what I believe she is trying to convey.

Sometimes the gene pool runs shallow around here.


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

MichaelE said:


> People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...is what I believe she is trying to convey.
> 
> Sometimes the gene pool runs shallow around here.


So i have no right to voice opinion cause i made a mistake ?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Please take this childish bickering over PM-ing. This is not helpful to the OP.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

It's not even about opinions, it's about the reality. The reality is that most people work 8 hours a day, travel an hour per day if they are lucky, and sleep 8 hours. That is 17 hours per day for the average person not including running errands, taking a shower and eating. So 20 hrs a day is pretty close to the time that a pup spends in the crate. That doesn't make people bad owners, it makes them normal. The goal is to hopefully get the dog out of the crate gradually and then permanently. It isn't forever and it's for safety of the pet.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

wolfy dog said:


> Please take this childish bickering over PM-ing. This is not helpful to the OP.


It's very helpful. The guy came here feeling like he's a bad owner. Some didn't miss a beat confirming his fears.

ETA in case it's not obvious what I'm saying. Op, 20 hours in a crate on weekdays won't kill her. As long as the 4 out of the crate are filled with fun and exercise. 
Also, I'd let her sleep with you. But you do what works for you. Some sport dogs live their lives like this and no one knocks them. Shelter dogs have it even worse


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## Ace GSD (May 30, 2014)

If the puppy house broken then i would try to see if she can be left uncrated at night but make sure its safe . Mine left uncrated whole night started at 4 months old. No accidents and he is gonna stay uncrated for now unless im at work.


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## Adelaide's_Dad (Jul 11, 2014)

Well, I have to really thank everyone for their responses, even the dissenting opinions. I think these responses successfully re-directed my chewing around the decision, into thinking harder about how to make it work, and taking control of a situation that seems to be relatively typical.

In that light, I sat around and thought, "Well, if she has to be confined while I'm at work, how can I make her environment better? Is there some way I can at least mix it up? What if I moved her into something other than a crate for the day? Perhaps an X-pen?". Well, how big of an X-pen? How do I magnify an X-pen?

The it hit me: I can build a kennel as big as I want really, right? 

So, I went out and bought a 10'x10'x6' kennel, and spent the rest of the day building it. I utilized my lower patio for such, so not only is it totally covered from the elements, she has her own ceiling fan! I figure this can be her "work-day resort?". So, at least I can change her scenery, give her a bunch of space, toys, and water.

Let's see how this goes, I hope I've done well....

Again, I can't thank you all enough for the encouraging perspectives. Never having anything other than sighthounds, I have almost zero perspective. I'm glad I came here. Already she's a better mammal than I; I contemplated giving her up, whereas I'm sure the thought never crossed her mind...










I've no idea why the image is upside down when it's right side up within every other context, apologies...


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

You are an *awesome* dog owner. Her trust in you is well deserved. Great problem solving


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## Adelaide's_Dad (Jul 11, 2014)

Thank you, much appreciated! Keeping my fingers crossed she'll do well in there tomorrow. My 90 year old Grandmother will certainly keep an eye on her, and let me know if something isn't right. I know she can at least hobble to the glass door to look out, she's just too frail to do anything else!


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

Wow


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Good for you, and good for your dog. That is a perfect compromise. Now, just teach your pup not to touch what you want left alone, and gradually you will be able to leave her in the house by herself.

Good job.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

What a good idea. An outdoor kennel somewhat indoors.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

What is really nice about this is that you can even eventually put a doggie door in when she gets older and can he trusted in the house. I thought you were scared away and instead you were building what seems to be a perfect spot for your puppy. May you guys enjoy many happy years together


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

that looks GREAT. Can I suggest a couple things? 1. Dont' leave any type of collar on her while she is unsupervised (dogs hanging themselves by accident or getting hung up on something is not uncommon) 2. Get some puppy appropriate chewy type things to keep her occupied (even a kong filled with something,etc)..

That's it, good luck, I'm sure she'll be happy having all that room


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

That's fantastic  Really great job!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

I hope she doesn't hurt herself falling on the fan.  That's pretty nice, I'd like to nap there myself!


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## lauren43 (Jun 14, 2014)

JakodaCD OA said:


> that looks GREAT. Can I suggest a couple things? 1. Dont' leave any type of collar on her while she is unsupervised (dogs hanging themselves by accident or getting hung up on something is not uncommon) 2. Get some puppy appropriate chewy type things to keep her occupied (even a kong filled with something,etc)..
> 
> That's it, good luck, I'm sure she'll be happy having all that room



I would like to add perhaps adding a relief mat or a bed she won't destroy could be helpful. Concrete/cement maybe a bit hard on her bones/joints/growing body...

I just bought some off amazon. They haven't arrived yet but they were like $22 for 6 snap together pieces...I'll let you know if they are any good!


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## Lark (Jan 27, 2014)

I agree that 20 hours a day in the crate is too long. I was in the same boat with my dog, and felt terrible every day. Now he is 2 and 1/2, and he is starting to stay out of the crate more. I have tried him many times before but he wasn't ready yet. Thankfully for you I have heard females mature faster! I felt such guilt on weekends when I would go to a movie, or shopping. Now if I am gone for a up to about 4 hours I just leave him out. This time will pass, and I think your dog sounds lucky to have you as an owner.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> I hope she doesn't hurt herself falling on the fan.  That's pretty nice, I'd like to nap there myself!


Lol))))))
And yeah I'd live there for sure


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## joneser (Jun 9, 2014)

I totally know how you feel OP! I got a 1 year old GSD and am completely overwhelmed. I can't teach him heel, he has so much potential and I feel like I'm ruining him. But...am I a good dog mom? **** straight. Is any parent, pet or human, perfect? Nope...
So like any new parent, do 2 things:
#1 let yourself off the hook. You're asking these questions because you care more for her than yourself. This inherently makes you an awesome dog owner.
#2 trust your gut. If you feel she is in the crate too much, assess her behavior. Does she sleep at night? Destroy things during the day? Does she resist going in the crate?

Puppies/dogs sleep A TON. Don't put so much pressure on yourself/her that you forget that she's a puppy, you're learning what works, and there WILL be failures (destroyed beds/toys, accidents, etc).

I'm only surviving because of doggy day care. And the chuck-it  
I recently discovered that he's highly allergic to pine trees and I'm learning to feed raw while transitioning to a new role at work, and leaving to hike the Inca Trail on Friday. Like I said...completely overwhelmed. 
But he looks at me like I'm the sun so I will keep doing right by him.


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## Adelaide's_Dad (Jul 11, 2014)

Thanks again folks for all the awesome replies! 

I just wanted to post an update to the kennel concept: It was a disaster...

...at least at this point in time.

I should have anticipated it: waste smeared everywhere, and the smell was atrocious. I felt even worse.

So, with little choice, I finally submitted to "playcare". I tell you, it's the best $18 a day I've spent in a long time. Drop her off on my way to work, pick her up on the way home. I guess she spends one hour outside with a similar set of dogs, an hour in, and so on throughout the day. 

When I picked her up, she was VERY relaxed. Didn't fuss nearly as much in the back seat, and let me pet her without her trying to mouth...

So I guess that is the answer for me really. I'm set on keeping her, even though it's going to cost me a pretty penny for the next few months. I just hope at some point, she can spend the day in the house, outside the crate, with a dog walker stopping by during lunch...


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