# How did the established/reputable breeders get started?



## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

I've read a LOT here about how not to get started breeding eek, and a lot about how to properly start working to that end - it's fascinating, and I honestly thank my lucky stars I got the dog I have because I didn't know a fraction of what I should have when I got a puppy. I find the discussions and the underlying science about reading and combining pedigrees fascinating as well. But, enough about me, I am curious how those of you who are successful breeders actually took the leap to your first litter. After completing the titles you wanted and all the health checks, did you have a mentor that advised, "Ok, it's time!"? How did you know you had the right parents to proceed? And how did that first breeding work out? 

(I've been searching through the other threads, and I couldn't find it if this has been asked and answered before - apologies if so!)

No worries, I have no intention of breeding my girl, or any other animal on the planet! I may be asking for trade secrets here, and I don't even realize it! But, if anybody feels like answering, I would love to hear the backstory!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Not being funny, but it definitely wasn't from the Internet or books. Is this question directed to actual breeders or is it directed to breeding experts.?


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## FoxyMom (Feb 9, 2013)

Me too! I also have *zero* plans of ever breeding any animal, but it would be interesting to hear how our resident reputable breeders got started. 


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

cliffson1 said:


> Not being funny, but it definitely wasn't from the Internet or books. Is this question directed to actual breeders or is it directed to breeding experts.?


 
HeeHee Mr. Cliffson, are you implying someone could be a breeding expert without actually being a breeder ?! I'm basically just being nosy, and I guess I could start by asking my own breeder this question! And no, I wouldn't imagine the knowledge that should be required could be obtained any other way than personal experience. But, it seems so daunting to me, all that knowledge one should have before embarking on creating a litter, how did you know it was right to proceed? And, did you "get" what you were expecting? Thanks!


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## VickyHilton (Apr 5, 2013)

(Also not breeding mine)

But...I am interested as well.

I love good stories, the plain honest, dirty truth.


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## Cunningham GSDs (Sep 21, 2011)

opcorn:


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Not a breeder but.... 

GET OUT AND WORK DOGS, BE AROUND DOGS, WATCH DOGS, WORK MORE DOGS, BE AROUND MORE DOGS, WATCH MORE DOGS, TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE WORKING AND BEING AROUND DOGS.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I spent a lot of years working dogs.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'm neither a breeder or a "breeding expert", but most breeders I know got their start from immersing themselves into the dog world. Raising, training, trialing, showing, working their dogs. Being around lots of other dog people. Having a mentor. Being active in the breed club and training clubs. Some people were born into it; their parents were breeders and they grew up doing it.

Also, some started in dog-related jobs when they were young: working for a kennel, veterinary hospital, groomer, show handler, police/military K9 handler, etc.

As Cliff mentioned, none of the accomplished breeders I know got their start from books, dvds, or the Internet, but that's because they didn't have the Internet back then. Certainly, successful breeders are well-read in dog and breed-related matters, breed history, etc. and some are active online, but that is only one part of being a well-rounded expert, IMO.

Nowadays there are a LOT of people learning how to breed dogs with books and the Internet, but I don't think those are going to be the best kind of breeders.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

> Nowadays there are a LOT of people learning how to breed dogs with books and the Internet, but I don't think those are going to be the best kind of breeders.


I have seen locally, quite a few "young" people breeding GSD's and other breeds within their kennel in the past year or two. I don't know if they have enough experience to truly know what they are doing. They are in their 20's. They have enthusiasm and the freedom to focus on dogs, not family. But I don't know if the decision making with breeding is well thought out or just a convenient way to make some $ and boost the ego.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

onyx'girl said:


> I don't know if they have enough experience to truly know what they are doing. They are in their 20's.


This is my opinion: Unless they were born into dog breeding, very few people are experienced and knowledgeable enough to be competent breeders while still in their twenties. I wouldn't buy from a breeder that young unless they were working with a mentor.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I know a few people in their 20s who have bred their dogs.

The fact pattern is usually: person buys dog from breeder, person goes out and titles/shows their dog, dog has stellar career, person breeds dog with original breeder's guidance (often to the point of choosing the mate(s) and talking them through the whelping).

I think that's a pretty solid way to get started. I wouldn't have any hesitation about buying a dog from one of those people. Sadly, the only ones I know aren't in the breeds I like.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

The ones I see(locally) aren't really titling, but have titles as goals...They breed because their female comes into heat and they feel rushed for her health's safety to breed her. Then of course the puppies take up the time that training to title would have...so titles aren't really achieved.
And a couple of these breeders are either using their own males out of convenience or choosing a well known male to help sell puppies. Don't hold pups back for personally evaluating what they produced or to keep for their program.
Not that it is a bad thing, but is it a way to get a strong kennel foundation established? 
Though, a couple of the breeders are working very hard training and gaining knowledge, so hopefully in 10 yrs will have a reputation for being responsible. The future does rely on the young passionate breeders. I just hope they understand they do carry a responsibility to keep the breed going in a positive way(whatever breed they are breeding!)


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

lhczth said:


> I spent a lot of years working dogs.


Clarification: You spent a lot of years working dogs, training dogs, working on different fields, different helpers and titling dogs.....


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Freestep said:


> This is my opinion: Unless they were born into dog breeding, very few people are experienced and knowledgeable enough to be competent breeders while still in their twenties. I wouldn't buy from a breeder that young unless they were working with a mentor.


It is not an age thing. Same could be said for people in their 30s,40s, 50s, etc. 
And depends who the mentor is.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Very true Sue.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Smithie86 said:


> It is not an age thing. Same could be said for people in their 30s,40s, 50s, etc.
> And depends who the mentor is.


I knew someone would be upset by that. 

What I mean is, most of the "breeders" I know that are in their twenties are backyard breeders. 

It's entirely possible that you could be a good breeder in your twenties, but there is a certain amount of knowledge and experience you need to be good at it, so you'd have to get a really early start in the breed to gain the needed experience. People who are born into it, or have a good mentor, as I mentioned, could be good breeders while they are still in their twenties. It's just that I don't see it very often.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Freestep.

Not upset at all. Just wanted to clarify that someone in their 40's could jump into breeding with no experience just like someone in their 20s. See it all the time for all ages. No experience, no work, a dog and boom!


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

For us, it was by demand. 
As many of you know, we live on a farm. We use our dogs on the farm, and any GSD we have is expected to work. That is first priority. If the dog won't or can't work, it's not for us. We've always taken great pride in our dog's ability to perform their herding duties, yet still be a fun, member of the family and that is something that has been noticed by other farmers and local GSD enthusiast. 

We were asked a LOT if we were going to breed, but had no intention of doing so, until the farmer/breeder we had gotten dogs from through the years and worked with often contacted us about it. He was going to retire, sell off his herd and get out of the business all together, including raising dogs. He asked us if we'd consider breeding and if so, could he send clients our way, because even though he wasn't going to be breeding, there was still a high demand for working dogs and he knew and trusted the dogs we had and our ability to raise honest pups. 
It was still another year, a lot of learning and researching and countless calls and emails from people wanting puppies, before we took the leap. 
We decided on one litter, just to satisfy the demand. But the demand has remained steady. We've raised one litter a year, from two separate bitches, for the past five years. So, we've successfully bred, whelped, raised and placed five litters of puppies without once having to actually look for a home for a pup. When the time comes that we end up actually having to LOOK for homes for our puppies, that will be when we stop breeding.

We've kept our nose clean, and protected our reputation, and don't have a problem cutting ties with shady breeders and people who don't stand for what the GSD is or with people who's values change.

We've done things the "right" way, and it's paid off for us. We don't make a lot of money off our pups, but they've led people our way, that have helped in other areas of our farm. 

We the demand for our dogs isn't there, we'll not breed. We've stayed successful, stayed small, most of our dogs are kept locally... and we're just fine with that.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Mary, you keep back pups for the future of your program?
And do you have your own stud dogs?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Smithie86 said:


> Just wanted to clarify that someone in their 40's could jump into breeding with no experience just like someone in their 20s. See it all the time for all ages. No experience, no work, a dog and boom!


Oh yes, you're right about that! In fact, I know a woman who, in her 50's, decided she would breed Chihuahuas to make extra money. So she acquired three unrelated dogs from I don't know where, they were clearly BYB, didn't even look like Chihuahuas. She's kind of a nutty lady anyway so I wasn't terribly surprised. She's also bred litters of cats, just regular random-bred cats.


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> Mary, you keep back pups for the future of your program?
> And do you have your own stud dogs?


I haven't kept any to this point, as they've all been spoken for, and honestly I just haven't had the need for a pup. 
I do have a bitch I'm planning on retiring from the farm and move her into something less strenuous, like maybe Rally,  within the next year or so, so I'll be looking to replace her then. I haven't decided if I'll go with one of my own, or get a pup from an outside kennel that I've dealt with before, though. Either way would be a win-win for me and the farm. It'd be cheaper, for me, to keep one of my own, but I've got my eye on a line from this other kennel and have gotten dogs from them before and love their drive and tenacity.... so who knows. I've got time to decide. 

And yes, I do have my own stud dog. All the dogs I breed are on my farm, I interact with them daily, and I know them very well. 
I'm not comfortable breeding dogs I don't know, and would only stud my male to a bitch I know and have seen work and interact with her people and know well enough to know there's nothing "off" hidden in her somewhere. I've been called a snob, but eh, it is what it is. There's enough "pretty" dogs out there already.


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## kjdreyer (Feb 7, 2013)

Mary, thanks for the reply, I appreciate your taking the time. Nice story, too, and just what I was interested in knowing more about!


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

If I'm not mistaken, cliff did you post once that you started at 17? I can't remember.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Gabor started training in his early teens competively. Did not start breeding until maybe 10 years ago.

So, he had over 45 years of training dogs for sport, military and police prior to breeding.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

kjdreyer said:


> Mary, thanks for the reply, I appreciate your taking the time. Nice story, too, and just what I was interested in knowing more about!


Yes, thank you! I'm interested in the pedigree of the lines you are breeding, are they old herding lines? Or are they just good dogs that know instinctively what their job is and no paper trail.


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

Both. Out of my five dogs, three are from true herding lines, two from old Helgenhohe lines, which I love, love, love, and two actually came from dogs with Schutzhund backgrounds.


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## bellske (Jul 30, 2013)

Merciel said:


> I know a few people in their 20s who have bred their dogs.
> 
> The fact pattern is usually: person buys dog from breeder, person goes out and titles/shows their dog, dog has stellar career, person breeds dog with original breeder's guidance (often to the point of choosing the mate(s) and talking them through the whelping).
> 
> I think that's a pretty solid way to get started. I wouldn't have any hesitation about buying a dog from one of those people. Sadly, the only ones I know aren't in the breeds I like.



exactly how would do it, I spoke to her breeder about this and they said I could lease her back to them and go from there, and I'd be more then happy to do that and learn that way, providing the dog is breed worthy when shes of age. mind you im not in my 20's im in my 30's lol


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