# DDR breeder around NY?



## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

I had posted about a year or two ago looking for suggestions for breeders. I was in the middle of some life moves, and didn't think it would be the right time. Things are all in order now.. and i'm ready to pick up my first German Shepherd pup this summer. I've been in touch with a few breeders, and am looking for some more suggestions if possible.

A little background first, single male, home owner, no children, medium yard. I've owned a number of dogs in the past, including my latest, an akita. I have some history in training dogs, but nothing competitive.

I am a law enforcement officer who fell in love with the drive and spirit of our K9 dogs, whom are ddr dogs.

1) This is a companion dog first. I'm a very outdoorsy / adventurous person. I've got bikes and gear and an SUV and I like to explore. Myself (like many people I imagine) are looking for a k9 partner. He would also need to "turn off" so to speak, at home.

2) First and foremost the dog must have no social aggression. Must not be a risk around children or other animals. I'd like to be able to take him to a dog park without issue. Temperament is key. 

3) I intend to train the dog and socialize it immensely. I will be enrolling in multiple classes for obedience and protection and whatever else strikes my fancy. This is not because I intend to compete with the dog, but to make it a nice well rounded dog, and to help bond with it. So i'd need a dog with the drive to participate.

4) I know people don't necessarily agree with this, but it's how I feel - i want a dark sable male. Majority of DDR dogs look like this, so it's not a big deal, but just putting that out there.

I've looked up a number of breeders. True Haus is just about perfect for what i'm looking for, however both of their litters are already reserved. I'm looking for any suggestions / people I can speak to, or even insight.

Thank you!


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

Your #2 and #3 contradict themselves. If protection strikes your fancy you will want social aggression which actually is not the definition you have in mind. DDR dogs usually not social butterflies and dog park frequenters so you may want to look into dark sable West German working line.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

Sent you a PM. 


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## GSDTrain (Apr 21, 2008)

Sent you a PM


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I don't see how #2 and #3 contradict themselves at all. 
Here they are as the OP stated them.

2) First and foremost the dog must have no social aggression. Must not be a risk around children or other animals. I'd like to be able to take him to a dog park without issue. Temperament is key. 

3) I intend to train the dog and socialize it immensely. I will be enrolling in multiple classes for obedience and protection and whatever else strikes my fancy. This is not because I intend to compete with the dog, but to make it a nice well rounded dog, and to help bond with it. So i'd need a dog with the drive to participate


A sound stable dog is not a risk , is not randomly or inappropriately aggressive - not reactive , not dog aggressive . Now dog parks are just a plain bad idea .
Stability and balance does not mean the dog has no drives . Temperament and stability is at the core of a clear headed able to sail through training , deal with life, respond with courage when needed, be a lively and interested participant in all sorts of activities and the be calm and restful at home .

All dogs need direction .


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

My Csabre (apx half DDR) is a very strong female, alot of social aggression - but also a naturally stable dog who absolutely adores children. She has not ever been inappropriately aggressive, but it is very evident on the field what is there. 

Agree with Carmen - no reason to go to dog parks. GSDs really do not need 'dog friends' and dog parks are just not a good idea. Worms, illnesses, and dog pack interactions too risky. Even taking a dog social GSD to a dog park is just not the best idea. If YOU have social reasons to go to a dog park, think about another breed...

Personally I like the physical DDR type - but prefer it blended with the other lines for versatility. Have done and am going to do a DDR cross again.

Lee


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> My Csabre (apx half DDR) is a very strong female, alot of social aggression - but also a naturally stable dog who absolutely adores children. She has not ever been inappropriately aggressive, but it is very evident on the field what is there.


 That's what I meant just didn't elaborate. The dog has to have social aggression to excel on the field and in protection, and social aggression doesn't mean eating children and cats. Social aggression does not equal instability as the OP implied. Social aggression doesn't equal inappropriate aggression. I wrote my response to what was written.


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

Old thread with same topic http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...01-reputable-ddr-working-line-breeder-ny.html

Btw, does anyone ever use the search engines on this forum? I see the same questions being asked over and over, people seem to be unaware that there are old threads or there is a search engine. There is a gold mine of information in old threads. Sure, it is great to get new input but perhaps people can just revive an old thread that way people looking for the same information can get it all from one thread.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I am also hunting for my next puppy. I have a list of breeders but I think it's really important to go out and watch the dogs. There are several good Schutzhund clubs in the NYS/PA area. I would recommend getting out there and watching/meeting the dogs and THEN ask who the breeders are when you find dogs you like.

We can recommend breeders on here all day long but that doesn't mean the dogs are a suitable match for you.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

wolfstraum said:


> Agree with Carmen - no reason to go to dog parks. GSDs really do not need 'dog friends' and dog parks are just not a good idea. Worms, illnesses, and dog pack interactions too risky. Even taking a dog social GSD to a dog park is just not the best idea. If YOU have social reasons to go to a dog park, think about another breed...


Sometimes you have to.

I'm not saying it's the OP's situation, but it is mine. I live in Center City Philadelphia. I don't have a yard. If I want to exercise my dog off-leash, or proof off-leash exercises, I have to do it at the dog park (or set up guerrilla pop-up courses in parking lots and city parks, which we also do, but for obvious reasons I'd rather have my dog practice jumps on the thick soft mulch of the dog park than an asphalt parking lot).

I'm lucky in that our local dog park has a pretty educated and committed group of core owners who keep everyone else more or less in line. We do continuing education and outreach about appropriate dog interactions (as opposed to bullying or outright aggressive behavior), and we seldom have problems with inappropriate dogs at the park (unlike some other city parks that have a very high percentage of dog-aggressive pitties and pit mixes with novice owners and, unsurprisingly, have a very high percentage of fights).

Even with that, though, it's a mixed bag. I tend to go late at night when no one else is likely to be using the park, partly so that I'm not inconveniencing anyone else when I set up my practice jumps, and partly because my Akita mix is prone to bullying and can get himself into trouble with smaller/weaker dogs. He's just not an appropriate playmate for most dogs anymore.

And I agree completely about the risk of worms and parasites. Even with a very healthy local dog population, we often have outbreaks of coccidia and giardia linked to the park. I wince when I see people bringing their 8-week-old puppies there (but, of course, people get personally offended when you tell them that they shouldn't have their dogs there...).

So I guess what I'd say is: you might have to use dog parks because it may be your best or only option for off-leash work. But there are definite risks to using them, and I wouldn't expect a working GSD to be a doggie social butterfly. If you ARE going to do it, it's very important to educate yourself about potential trouble signs and be honest about when your own dog is causing problems (sometimes easier said than done -- this was pretty humbling and painful when I had to admit to myself that one of my own dogs was becoming a problem. Socialization does not always trump genetics on this front).

If you really want to get way too into it, Cheryl Smith has a booklet called "Visiting the Dog Park" that is a pretty good overview of pros and cons. You can find it through Dogwise for five bucks right now: Welcome to Dogwise.com

(sorry about the tangent!)


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

you can find what you are looking for easy i am sure in czech/ddr mixes or mixed lines also.

Not sure about pure ddr dogs these days but for the color you want you will get it in many lines and for the temperament you are looking for. A social gsd. I met a big huge quiet male ddr dog that liked protection work and was a social butterfly though. He did not ever bark instead he would scream. God that noise was HORRIBLE! LOL


When people think DDR they have the misconception I think and think of the DDR dogs before the wall fell. THe ddr dogs of today aren't like that anymore from what I have seen at least... Many are social calm dogs. JMHO Breeders who see more of them would know more though. I have met some west german with extreme social aggression.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Have you done any research on breeders who might have the dog you're looking for? I know there are several on this board alone that might be able to fit what you're looking for or at the very least point you in the direction of what you're looking for. Are you opposed to shipping a puppy?


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

If you are in upstate new york you can drive into Canada. You have carmspack who I consider an amazing breeder. I am not sure if she uses ddr in her current breedings anymore? If she did she sounds like the perfect place.

Best thing not limit yourself to your exact location that way you can find the best dog for your situation. Remember this will be with you for 10 plus years.

When looking for my do I made a few trips into new york myself from Ontario lol To look at some dogs.


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## thinkrevolutionx (Sep 11, 2011)

Ocean said:


> Old thread with same topic http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...01-reputable-ddr-working-line-breeder-ny.html
> 
> Btw, does anyone ever use the search engines on this forum? I see the same questions being asked over and over, people seem to be unaware that there are old threads or there is a search engine. There is a gold mine of information in old threads. Sure, it is great to get new input but perhaps people can just revive an old thread that way people looking for the same information can get it all from one thread.


I did search, and that thread you link is from 2009.. things do change. I don't think a new thread four years later is too uncalled for.

I've been in touch with about eight breeders so far. I've narrowed it down to this point to about three, kind of going back and forth with them now. All of the suggestions came from this site as well :happyboogie:

Mercial: Thanks for the suggestion on the book, i'll check it out.

As far as the dog parks thing goes; as I mentioned i'm a big outdoors guy. There are quite a few lakes / parks and such nearby (not necessarily dog parks) where i'd like to take my dog, probably daily. I'm not the only person with such a notion. I don't want a dog that every time I walk past another dog is going to give me a problem. I suppose I considered it easier to just say "dog park" when really I mean "population centers" with a number of other owners walking their dogs /// high social contact. My akita could just not be a part of something like that. No matter how much I tried to train her, she could not be around other dogs, people were ok - but as someone mentioned, genetics wins. I'd like not to have that as a problem if possible.

jax08 - you're correct, and not a bad suggestion. That's also why I attempt to be open and honest not only on the forum, but in my interaction with breeders, that way as best as we both can - we are able to determine if their dogs would indeed be a match.


For those who pm'd me , thanks! Great suggestions / info, and I believe I responded toe veryone.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This isn't strictly NYS but it's where I started my search at. Lots of good breeders listed. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/185707-east-coast-working-line-breeders.html


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Also whatever you do,, dont take a working dog to a dog park, sure it may start off good but eventually it will end bad I can promise you that. For a while it will go well but then it will start go bad and when it goes bad it will go really bad. You have friends with dogs i am sure (I dont mean police k9s) and can make your own mini dog parks with people you know at each others houses. Me and a couple of friends will hang out and have a bbq at someones house sometimes in the summer and just take our dogs to one of the persons house.


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## pets4life (Feb 22, 2011)

Hey sorry I just read your dog park comment now, dont worry for what you want any well bred balanced shepherd will be great and quiet. Even my dominant bitch is very good and quiet in public when other dogs are foaming at the mouth and showing teeth as we walk by. As long as they dont touch her she could care less. ALl well bred confidant balanced gsds seem to be like this. Whether they have very strong aggression or none at all I dont think it matters when it comes to that part. Its more how confidant the dog is I think. However when your dog is young he may be more reactive towards other dogs but he will grow out of it with with exposure. Like walking him by dogs on the street. (does not mean you meet other dogs with your pup on the street i would never do that)

Akita i think are more known to be a very dog aggressive dog aren't they? GSD's are not dog aggressive. They are a more dominant dog usually and smarter so they seem to get there way and tend to rule over most dogs. But they arent dog aggressive. Or they shouldn't be thats not a gsd trait like i oftend see with true northern malamutes, akitas, pits etc...


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

I apologize thinkrevol. if you did use the search engine.

Check out the Xita x Sumo litter of Blackthorn Blackthorn Working German Shepherds -- Available Puppies

Christine is a member of this forum and always posts with knowledge and intelligence. The videos of Sumo on her site are quite impressive. If I was on the market for a puppy I would be very tempted by this litter myself. I am also partial to DDR lines as you are.
She mentions that Sumo is training for a SchH 3, you might want to contact her and see if you can drive down to VA and watch Sumo train. There is nothing like seeing a working dog in the flesh and you can learn so much about a dog's temperament from watching it in training (and also how they behave in the parking lot, crate, toward strangers, other dogs, etc.)

Good luck in your search and enjoy the pup.


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## manoof1 (Dec 19, 2019)

Hello everyone, looking to restart this thread. If anyone can help find a reputable DDR breeder in NY or close by, I would really appreciate it.

I’ve been reading this forum for a while now, and it’s been amazing. Thank you all!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

manoof1 said:


> Hello everyone, looking to restart this thread. If anyone can help find a reputable DDR breeder in NY or close by, I would really appreciate it.
> 
> I’ve been reading this forum for a while now, and it’s been amazing. Thank you all!


Can I ask what it is about the DDR dogs that appeals to you?


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## manoof1 (Dec 19, 2019)

I want a line that can handle the cold really well, and a line that isn’t breed for it’s looks, like the show lines. Yes I know the DDR’s are breed for their looks as well, and that’s why I requested a reputable breeder. I’m also looking for the dog to be able to stay calm around my two children. 

And selfishly, I think the ddr line looks tougher. ( I know that’s subjective ).
Thank you.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

? I don't think any of what you said makes sense. You want a tough looking dog that will stay calm around your children so you are asking for DDR??

Handle the cold? The dogs have double coats. No line will handle the cold better than another. 

DDR's were bred to hunt down people. Hunt being the key word. They were not bred for their looks. Czech dogs (sometimes lumped in with DDR's) were bred to guard the boarder. They have a high level of aggression. Neither of these lines is particularly biddable. West German have higher prey and are typically more social than DDR or Czech. Over and over we see threads of people getting "DDR" dogs and then the dogs can't be handled, are growling at the people in the home, or people coming over. 

What you will get with DDR and Czech are high suspicious and high aggression. You would be better off looking for a working line breeder that breeds for temperament instead of just a DDR breeder. The better dogs, IMO, are the dogs that are a combination of all the lines. Those seem to have a better balance. 

So be careful what breeder you end up with.


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## manoof1 (Dec 19, 2019)

Jax just decided to take me to school!
Thanks for the input.

so to sum it up, don’t get a ddr, get a working line? And are all GSD’s double coated? I heard the long haired ones are not. 

Do all DDR’s line still have the original high prey drive even today. Because from reading diff threads, I see ppl saying a whole lot of diff stuff.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DDR's are working lines. If you don't want showlines then just look for a good working line breeder that can give you a family dog. It's rare to even find full DDR dogs anymore. I think Blackthorne might have some that are appropriate for families.

Believe me - my male makes people back off and he is not DDR. Any GSD is going to "look tough". 

DDR are NOT known for high prey. They are known for their hunt drive. They are not biddable dogs.

GSD's are double coated. Some long coats do not have a double coat.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

There are lots of good breeders in NY. Instead of looking for DDR, ask for a dog with the qualities you need. Make a list starting with....
1. good with kids.

Now...I just made 13 dozen ginger snaps and, though I didn't think I ate that many while baking, I need to go work thru this sugar coma and nausea.


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## CeraDean (Jul 9, 2019)

Jax summed it up pretty great. I only want to add that you might want to consider visiting clubs and seeing these dogs in action. Ask questions and talk to the club members about their dogs. Talk to them about their first working line dog. Dogs at club are pretty pumped to have fun but the type of effort you see at club will crop up in several aspects of regular home life.

You also might want to consider posting your own thread about your location and needs in a dog. Maybe even asking what clubs to visit (if you want to visit). Then you might get a really nice list of breeders to start with.


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## tc68 (May 31, 2006)

manoof1 said:


> I want a line that can handle the cold really well, and a line that isn’t breed for it’s looks, like the show lines. Yes I know the DDR’s are breed for their looks as well, and that’s why I requested a reputable breeder. I’m also looking for the dog to be able to stay calm around my two children.
> 
> And selfishly, I think the ddr line looks tougher. ( I know that’s subjective ).
> Thank you.


What @Jax08 said pertains to my dog. I've got a 1/2 DDR, 1/2 Czech Working line sable. *He's a lot of dog*. Like Jax mentioned, he is highly suspicious and has high aggression. With _his_ people, he is very protective. I have been very cautious introducing him to new people. With some people he is ok. Others...he will stiffen up and his hackles will come up. He has very strong prey drive. Always wants to chase down the deer, squirrel, foxes, birds, etc. He once got loose and chased a deer throughout the neighborhood. Was gone for about 15 mins. I honestly thought I lost the dog or something was going to happen. Luckily I had an ecollar on him and I had to turn it up to the highest setting and he came back. I also noticed he's very territorial. He will show aggression with anyone, any dog, any animal that crosses his "imaginary" border. Outside of that imaginary border line, he is more calm. He does everything at full speed. He doesn't do anything half-assed.

My experience...GSDs are cold weather dogs. The 2 I've had/have love the cold. So you don't have to worry about the cold. Yes, most GSDs have double coats. Not all, but definitely most. And yes, some long hairs don't have double coats. Again, not all.

Again, these dogs are a lot of dog. My breeder wouldn't even sell his litter to just anyone. She only sold mine to me because I've had a GSD before.

I just want you to be sure you know what you're getting, if you're determined to get a DDR sable. Because we don't want to read another case of someone having to give up or rehome their dog because it's too bitey around the children or has shown aggression in the house or they don't have enough time to give a working line dog the attention/time it needs. Please give it a lot of thought. One last thing...here's the disclaimer: every dog is different. What I said above and others say are generalizations. There are exceptions to the rule.



manoof1 said:


> Jax just decided to take me to school!
> Thanks for the input.
> 
> so to sum it up, don’t get a ddr, get a working line? And are all GSD’s double coated? I heard the long haired ones are not.
> ...


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## OldStyleSavage (Dec 17, 2019)

manoof1 said:


> Hello everyone, looking to restart this thread. If anyone can help find a reputable DDR breeder in NY or close by, I would really appreciate it.
> 
> I’ve been reading this forum for a while now, and it’s been amazing. Thank you all!


I don't know if there are any reputable DDR breeders near NY.

If you seriously want a DDR pup from a quality breeder that can match the pup to your lifestyle, I would have one shipped via airplane

I would contact Jean at Shraderhaus, as she has a very good reputation, and talk to her to see if she can produce something compatible for you: http://www.schraderhausk9.com/

I know Christine from Blackthorne is also highly recommended, and very knowledgeable, but not sure if she is still breeding DDR pups: https://blackthornkennel.com/

Also: http://www.justk9s.com/ is very reputable

Just be completely honest with the breeder in what you are looking for, your lifestyle, and the experience you have

From everything I understand, these newer DDR lines can make great pets if you have a reputable breeder that produces solid nerves; and is trustworthy to select the correct breeding, and the right puppy from the litter, to match your lifestyle


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## OldStyleSavage (Dec 17, 2019)

manoof1 said:


> Do all DDR’s line still have the original high prey drive even today. Because from reading diff threads, I see ppl saying a whole lot of diff stuff.


Here is what @cliffson1 had to say:

"_Let me preface this by saying this is just my personal opinion so it may not be of much value to some. I generally look at the DDR dogs since the curtain opened,( around 1990), as the older lines and the more current lines. The older lines were heavily influenced bu Held v Ritterberg, Barutherland,Lord, Artus v Westholhe,Zorro Lagerwall,etc. *I found them to be high in defense, somewhat sharp, excellent nerve, very moderate in prey drive, somewhat handler sensitive, very slow developing in some traits*. I have a 13 year old female under my feet that is 3,4-4,5 on Held and 4-5 on Artus. 

The newer lines pretty much are derived from Alf v Kornersee, the Haus Iris line, and Mittelhauser Flur dogs. They usually come over Sven Grafental, Queick v Ludwigseck, Don v Haus Irsis and others. 
This breeding falls into that group. *These dogs generally are very balanced in drives( defense/prey) usually on the low to moderate range. Good nerve, but not high fight. Not usually sharp, but can be defensive. Very good in discernerment and intuitiveness.* I have also owned a very nice female from Linmarc kennels that had these lines. Also, these dogs are slow to mature and do not respond well to early protection training. These are my experiences, I hope it helps_" - Cliff


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## Gwyllgi (Aug 16, 2017)

I have a DDR line bred on 4 - 5 SG Lissy vom Haus Iris 5 - 5 SG Gabi von der Alten Wassermühle 5 - 5 V Tino vom Felsenschloß.

Her dam was bred by Werner Schultz of Parchimer Land.

She has little to no prey drive but high defence drive. She is territorial and suspicious and aloof with strangers but very good with children (socialised from a pup with children in different schools).

She is good with my little dog but doesn't do well with other dogs unless carefully introduced.

She is very independent and would rather do her own thing. She is not ball driven at all, I can throw a ball and she will hunt and retrieve it and then once I have the ball back she will go about her business; never excited for the ball to be thrown again. She loves to track out in the open.

Her obedience is average, she will sit, down and walk to heel but she is always interested in what is around her, getting her to focus on me is a challenge, she has no food drive either.

Slow to mature, she was around 10 months before her defence drive kicked in. 

Her temperament is outstanding, good nerves and very relaxed in the house.

She is my first working line, my previous dogs over 35 years were rescue and show lines. 

My advice is to the OP is to go and research all the different lines and visit clubs and breeders and tell them what you want. A good and reputable breeder will not sell you a pup or adult that does not fit your requirements or theirs.



Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Katsugsd (Jul 7, 2018)

Adding on to @OldStyleSavage 's post - Christine with Blackthorn does currently have a full DDR litter on the ground - at a co-owner's home in Buffalo, NY no less - Freki v Eintze x Arek vd Wedeme. I think all pups are reserved except a female they prefer to go to a sport/working home, but she should have more pups in the future. I'd recommend emailing her (her email is on the website) and joining the Facebook group page for Blackthorn Working GSDs to get a feel for her dogs. She breeds for temperament first. Freki, Voodoo and Vida (daughter\ mother ), and Journey (Sojourner v Huerta Hof) are her full DDR females. If she doesn't have something coming up, she could point you to someone who might.

Kistha Haus has puppies now, I believe. I don't know about them personally, though. Schraderhaus - the dogs I've met I've liked.

I have a female that is 50% DDR, and 50% Czech/WGWL. She's high prey, high food/moderate toy drive and eager to please. She has high hunt and pack drive, and a decent amount of suspicion. She settles easy in the house -great with kids and neutral/friendly people and is on the smaller side (60lbs and 22"). She'll chase outside cats, squirrels, etc if she's noticed them and not on leash. If I could get another like her, I would hands down.
She's 5-4 on Iran vom Tannenkrug and Lissy vom Haus Iris 5-5 on Sven


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I'm confused, are we still looking for DDR? Where in NY, its a big state. Going to local clubs is always a good idea, if I knew where abouts you are, I could point you to some.


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## manoof1 (Dec 19, 2019)

@vomlittlehaus, I’m in Albany NY.
I have contacted a few breeders. Melinda at Weberhaus and Kelly at Boeselager. Both were kind enough to talk to and educate me. I haven’t found any DDR breeders in my area, and any suggestion would be great. Would love to interact with these dog to get to know them better.
Thank you!


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

Reach out to these guys and see if you can meet up and meet some dogs. Home - Liberty Working Dog Club


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