# Picking a pup; cutting through the noise



## Bobcat Sig (Aug 3, 2020)

I must say that I've been rather pleased to read all the great info here on GSD.com. It was fortuitous that I stumbled on to the forum.

If you caught my only other thread, the wife and I are weeks ago from welcoming another dog into the house.

As we work to select a puppy from the litter, I'm hoping to cut through the noise. We're both reading the Monks of New Skete's well-regarded book. I've also read _German Shepherds for Dummies_. Reading up on the Volhard Test and the subsequent PAT, which I know is still somewhat controversial. 

Where else can I turn for picking a pup out of a litter? Are there other books, articles, or resources that you've found helpful?


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

A good breeder knows the pups very well by 8 weeks. Let the breeder advise you as to which pups are the best fit for you!


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

How old are the munchkins?

Ideally someone experienced with litters should do this, but since you are winging it.
I'm not real smart and certainly no expert.
I'm really hoping someone else weighs in.
At about six weeks, I separate the pups so they have no littermates/mom with them and see how they react. Some flip right out some sort of roll with it. I check noise sensitivity and responses to basic handling, puppy should not panic at noise or violently object to normal handling. I move around and see if they will follow, then see if they respond to coaxing to follow. What you should be looking for is a pup that is willing to interact and submits to handling with minimal protest and one that eagerly responds to attention. Avoid pups that freak about being away from the litter, whine a lot, bolt from noises or ignore human attention.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

What are you looking for in a pup? Pet? Sport? Home protection? Active hiking companion?


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

This is a rescue litter, OP wants an active companion. They have an aging lab currently.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

So, given this new info, I suggest just spending some time observing the litter. Think about what you want from this puppy later on. Active companion to me would rule out the more laid back puppies. Personally I like to see some drive to, and independence. Are they followers only, or willing to lead the charge?

Also, how do they react to their siblings? My pup, at 10 weeks, was putting her much larger brother in check. But equally importantly showed no fear of meeting me, a complete stranger, eagerly!

She was a very gregarious animal until about 9 months of age. Then it was like a switch flipped and she became aloof as she can be. No fear, just no interest in saying hi to anyone either. 

Spend some hours just watching the puppies. And good luck on your pick!


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## Bobcat Sig (Aug 3, 2020)

Excellent points. Thank you! I'll respond to a few.



Sabis mom said:


> How old are the munchkins?
> 
> Ideally someone experienced with litters should do this, but since you are winging it.
> I'm not real smart and certainly no expert.
> ...


I believe the pups are about four, maybe five weeks old. We're working on nailing down a date when they'll be ready so we can back into a time to observe and pick a male pup. We've been told September 5th and the foster mom first said they'll be ready at 6 weeks, then later at 8 weeks. In any case, it looks like late next week will the window to pick based on what you're suggesting, all of which makes sense. Thank you.


MineAreWorkingline said:


> What are you looking for in a pup? Pet? Sport? Home protection? Active hiking companion?


Yes, below. But a good family companion that's loyal, up for an adventure, apt to train, and not so driven or high energy that it will destroy the house. We don't have any plans for sport, competition or show. After all, this is a rescue litter and not purebred, just mostly GSD.


Sabis mom said:


> This is a rescue litter, OP wants an active companion. They have an aging lab currently.


Correct.


tim_s_adams said:


> So, given this new info, I suggest just spending some time observing the litter. Think about what you want from this puppy later on. Active companion to me would rule out the more laid back puppies. Personally I like to see some drive to, and independence. Are they followers only, or willing to lead the charge?
> 
> Also, how do they react to their siblings? My pup, at 10 weeks, was putting her much larger brother in check. But equally importantly showed no fear of meeting me, a complete stranger, eagerly!
> 
> ...


Good stuff. Thank you.

A few clarifying questions. What sort of traits a puppy can I expect (loosely) as they mature?

I've always known that unless you want a really high drive and energetic puppy _do not_ pick the first pup that breaks away from the litter to come meet you and jumps in your lap. Is that still widely accepted? It's those sorts of things I'm working through.


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## drparker151 (Apr 10, 2020)

This good book for what to expect as they mature.

Your German Shepherd Puppy Month by Month, 2nd Edition: Everything You Need to Know at Each State to Ensure Your Cute and Playful Puppy Grows into a Happy, ... Companion (Your Puppy Month by Month) - Kindle edition by Palika, Liz, Albert, Terry, Eldredge, Debra, Olivier, Joanne. Crafts, Hobbies & Home Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Bobcat Sig said:


> Excellent points. Thank you! I'll respond to a few.
> 
> 
> I believe the pups are about four, maybe five weeks old. We're working on nailing down a date when they'll be ready so we can back into a time to observe and pick a male pup. We've been told September 5th and the foster mom first said they'll be ready at 6 weeks, then later at 8 weeks. In any case, it looks like late next week will the window to pick based on what you're suggesting, all of which makes sense. Thank you.
> ...


It all depends on what you personally want in a dog. I have yet to see a GSD that isn't easy to train. They all are loyal, up for any adventure, and will tear up your house if bored...

This latter point is on you. GSDs are big athletic dogs. They need lots of training, exercise, and adventure. If you leave them to their own devices they will likely wreck your stuff.

That being said, if you give them ample exercise and training you should be fine with any drive level.

I actually like a puppy that shows some tenacity, independence, and self confidence. I always like to learn all I can about the parents as well.

But again, all puppies are not equal, so it's really impossible to speak to any puppy's traits. Generalities, just off the top of my head are they all need house training, the all will be teething until 5 or 6 months, and many will be reactive to people and other dogs to some degree. They all go through growth spurts and appear awkward at times. And males tend to mature a bit slower than females. 

The main thing with a puppy is that it's up to you to manage their behavior and show them how to behave in any given situation. No such thing as a pre-programmed puppy.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Bobcat Sig said:


> I've always known that unless you want a really high drive and energetic puppy _do not_ pick the first pup that breaks away from the litter to come meet you and jumps in your lap. Is that still widely accepted? It's those sorts of things I'm working through.


 Not high drive necessarily. Outgoing, maybe. Keefer was that kind of pup, if you sat on the floor he’d be in your lap. He stayed the same as an adult - outgoing, super social, and extremely affectionate.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

ALL puppies come preprogrammed. There would be no such thing as a wash out in any venue if it weren't for the preprogramming. That is why we have breeds and reputable breeders. Even if we didn't have them, the puppies still come preprogrammed but there is a lot more guesswork involved regarding the behavioral traits as the blueprint is now missing. You can only enhance or suppress the preprogramming. And that's another problem with this litter. There are other unknown breeds involved and OP can be signing up for things that he never imagined.

What if a Beagle is in the mix? We all laughed at the Beagle that belted out some baying outbursts in the park the other day but the owner said it isn't funny when it happens at 2am. OP may have neighbors close by or sleeping kids. Or maybe there's some Collie in the mix. They are well known for epilepsy and horrible fear of loud noises. When there is a mix of breeds, you also open yourself up to not only the behavioral predispositions of the known breeds but also the unknown, the same with any health predispositions.


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## JunoVonNarnia (Apr 8, 2020)

Sunsilver said:


> A good breeder knows the pups very well by 8 weeks. Let the breeder advise you as to which pups are the best fit for you!


My breeder did an excellent job picking my puppy for me. I wanted working line, obedient, active but not over the top crazy. It was my first GSD and I wanted to make sure that I could handle it. I got Juno, who is extremely loyal and obedient. Medium energy puppy, I would say, and not at all destructive. She was an active and friendly puppy, followed me around at the breeder's. She fits in quite well with me and my neurotic rescue hound.


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## Bobcat Sig (Aug 3, 2020)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> ALL puppies come preprogrammed. There would be no such thing as a wash out in any venue if it weren't for the preprogramming. That is why we have breeds and reputable breeders. Even if we didn't have them, the puppies still come preprogrammed but there is a lot more guesswork involved regarding the behavioral traits as the blueprint is now missing. You can only enhance or suppress the preprogramming. And that's another problem with this litter. There are other unknown breeds involved and OP can be signing up for things that he never imagined.
> 
> What if a Beagle is in the mix? We all laughed at the Beagle that belted out some baying outbursts in the park the other day but the owner said it isn't funny when it happens at 2am. OP may have neighbors close by or sleeping kids. Or maybe there's some Collie in the mix. They are well known for epilepsy and horrible fear of loud noises. When there is a mix of breeds, you also open yourself up to not only the behavioral predispositions of the known breeds but also the unknown, the same with any health predispositions.


We know going into this litter that there are unknowns. It's a rescue. We do know that the sire is believed to be GSD. The dam is at least half GSD; her color and build show that, though she's a bit shorter and narrower than the breed standard. Her ears aren't up; a bit floppy. Mind you, she and the litter were found malnourished and she's since put on nearly twenty pounds to where she is now; around 55 pounds. In looking at her, I'd guess she's mixed with some sort of hound; narrower skull and slightly longer snout than GSD standard.

Her temperament is very caring and sweet. She's great around people and watching her with her pups shows that she's been a good mother thus far. She's not vocal in the least.

Like you said; the other breed(s) could be anything.

I will say I've been rather lucky with pound puppies and their health propositions. Those DNA pools getting mixed up seem to reduce health issues, which I'm all for.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

If you can swing the cost, I'd do an Embark DNA w/ the health testing also so you'll know more about the future health
and possibly temperament/personality of your pup. IMO they're really worth it to know more, if unknown.
Also I hope you have a good camera or phone to take pictures, cause we'll need to see this adorable puppy.


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## Bobcat Sig (Aug 3, 2020)

Orphan Heidi said:


> If you can swing the cost, I'd do an Embark DNA w/ the health testing also so you'll know more about the future health
> and possibly temperament/personality of your pup. IMO they're really worth it to know more, if unknown.
> Also I hope you have a good camera or phone to take pictures, cause we'll need to see this adorable puppy.


I appreciate the input and the suggestion of Embark. Is that particular kit regarded as better than others? More accurate?
The wife and I have discussed such a kit over the years for our current dog, Maverick, a lab-mix. The mix has always been a complete mystery; we've theorized wildly - Corgi, some manner of shepherd, hound, or maybe terrier.

But I digress... you say puppy pictures? You got it!

Bear, one of the three male pups we're considering. He's quite the fluffball. His appetite is unmatched by his littermates and he's a sleepy lil' guy.





























Sprite, the shortest coat of the bunch, and also the mellowest. He's often off by himself when he's not tugging on a blanket.





























And lastly, Mac. He's a bit more rambunctious than the other males. I'm anxious to see how he develops over the next week or two so I can make a guesstimate on his temperament and personality.




















Sprite and Mac











The three boys attempting some glamour shots, poorly.











And lastly, the dam, Sophie, with four of the five pups.


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## Orphan Heidi (Sep 21, 2018)

Whatever you do, don't post the address of those pups, a couple might go missing....just sayin..

Yeah, most breeders on other dog forums believe Embark is most accurate for testing. Not the cheapest but the best.
I was surprised so many had done multiple test w/ multiple companies just to test the different companies, but they all agree Embark is more thorough in testing.
You might enjoy going on Facebook to " Embark DNA Discussion" page and read what people say and see pictures of the crazy mixes that get tested. It's a fun way to kill some time, very entertaining. People try to guess the mixes before the test comes back.
Those pups are adorbs!!


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