# GSD Hunting



## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

Hey guys,

My family and I are looking to add a companion for our 15 month old GSD. We got him exactly one year ago. We certainly did not know what we were doing at the time but lucked out with a dog whose parents are DM negative and no problems with hips in the pedigree. His parents were West German imports and Schutzhund trained but we bought him strictly as a family pet. He has turned out to be just the greatest dog that we could imagine. He is great with people and just loves other dogs. Now we would like a companion for him (and for us) that will also be a family pet. We can spend up to about $1500 and have been looking at various sites. We're in Louisiana near New Orleans and actually found a site called Top Notch German Shepherds. They are a hobby breeder and we'll be going to look at their dogs this weekend as they have a litter due in 2 weeks. The mom is a czech import and these are more DDR type dogs. However, my current boy has a very high drive and NEVER gets tired so I think that a high energy working dog wouldn't be a problem. So far, all that I know is that the parents both have OFA good hips and elbows but have not been DM tested but no known history of DM. I'm going to talk to the breeder that we got Kodi from tomorrow about the whole situation to get his opinion as he's been very helpful and always available over the past year, but I wanted to get some opinions from you guys as well. I'd be willing to have a dog shipped and would pay extra if that's what it took.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.


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## madis (Dec 21, 2013)

Coincidentally my breeder has a litter due in a few days that is very drivey and is a "proven combination" of dam and sire. I will PM you her info. No pressure just thought I might help out  


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

i wouldn't get another dog untill my 1st dog is well trained
and highly socialized. i wouldn't get a dog from a breeder
that only partially test their dogs. i also want to see titles.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

Nice pedigree on the bitch from Top Notch in my novice opinion. No titles on her, but bloodlines I like. Her sire is a Tom grandson, and dam is a Tom granddaughter.

I really don't know much about this stuff though. Just getting my feet wet.

David Winners


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

Madis,

Thanks for the info. Might nice of you. I'll check them out.

Doggiedad,

Appreciate the input. My boy has gone through a few obedience courses. He's really good at the house but can use more work when distracted. As for socialization, I don't think he could be any more socialized as he is around new people and dogs about 5 days a week and is great with both. And you're right, the fact that the dogs have not been tested for DM would likely be the deciding factor. Just want to do a lot of looking and research for our next pup as I realize now after hearing so many horror stories just how lucky we were to get Kodi with almost no prior knowledge other than my wife grew up with a GSD.
As for titles, I was not too worried about that because he's going to be a family pet (of a highly active family). But I can see where buying from a breeder with non-titled dogs could potentially but not necessarily promote breeding practices of less than stable dogs or perhaps dogs that don't fit the temperament standard even if they are proper in conformation. Our breeder may be doing a repeat breeding this spring and if so, we could get a sibling of Kodi which would be ideal (his parents are both kkl1). If not, any personal recs on breeders that might be right for us?

Thanks.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

When a breeder with experience breeds an untitled dog, they have a REASON for doing the breeding, and a reason why the dog is not titled....and a REASON for the pairing. The untitled dog is likely to have been trained and the breeder should be knowledgeable about the dog and it's background and be able to tell you why that dog is being bred.

When someone with an untitled male, who has an untitled parent/grandparents, is buying females and just breeding...that is not responsible or knowledgable - PARTICULARLY in working lines.....in show lines, it is not as risky IMO, but in working lines, it is not "responsible breeding"....there are WAY WAY too many ways to combine two apparently decent tempered dogs and come up with nervy, fearful, aggressive progeny!

I see alot of "red flags". That does not mean every pup in the litter will grow up to be a dangerous dog - but it does mean the potential is there, and IMO pretty risky, to get a apparently cute happy puppy who turns out to be way way more than you bargined for! No matter HOW NICE THE PARENTS ARE!!!!!! And the parents are probably very happy, pleasant dogs and that is the selling point for their puppies.

I have done 3 breedings with Tom sons...including ******....I have seen quite a few Vito Waldwinkle dogs, own progeny, and progeny of those dogs. I have seen pups from those litters go on and be bred - both as line breedings on Tom and with other prepotent dogs in the males pedigree. I would NOT line breed on Tom like this...I don't see high drive, and happy to settle in the house after some playing ball...add to those genetics, I would NEVER add several of the lines behind the male to a dog linebred on Tom.....I probably would not even want a puppy from this litter for a sport dog even if the parents were titled...now - this is not going to be true for EVERY puppy in the litter...but at 8 weeks - even 8 months, you do NOT see the total mature character that the dog will end up with.

Find a breeder who understands the genetics behind their dogs....not a "hobby" breeder who just buys some dogs with decent pedigrees and breeds them for pets.

Get another WG Showline dog.....you will be much happier!


JMHO

Lee


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> When a breeder with experience breeds an untitled dog, they have a REASON for doing the breeding, and a reason why the dog is not titled....and a REASON for the pairing. The untitled dog is likely to have been trained and the breeder should be knowledgeable about the dog and it's background and be able to tell you why that dog is being bred.
> 
> When someone with an untitled male, who has an untitled parent/grandparents, is buying females and just breeding...that is not responsible or knowledgable - PARTICULARLY in working lines.....in show lines, it is not as risky IMO, but in working lines, it is not "responsible breeding"....there are WAY WAY too many ways to combine two apparently decent tempered dogs and come up with nervy, fearful, aggressive progeny!
> 
> ...


Thanks for that explanation Lee!

David Winners


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

Hey David Winners,

Thanks for the reply. All input is appreciated as I'm also new to German Shepherds as of last year though I have been a dog owner throughout most of my life. We had our last 2 dogs for over 15 years so we have just been used to having 2 dogs. I know Kodi is probably fine with a companion or not but "his" companion will probably be fitting our needs more than his.
I'll look through the pedigrees more closely. I'm not really familiar with a lot of bloodlines so other than titles and ratings, not really sure what I'm looking at other than "hey, that dog looks cool." I suppose I might be able to find out if the grandparents were tested as if they are all dd then I wouldn't have to lose a lot of sleep about it. However, I would feel much more comfortable if the individual dogs being bred were tested. Thanks again.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why don't you go back to Kodi's breeder? He seems to be a great dog!


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

Onyx's Girl,

Yes, if he does a repeat breeding with Kodi's parents then that will be our first choice. However, he owns the female and anther breeder owns the male so not sure if he will be going that route. Just depends on what he wants to do with his lines.

Wolfstraum,

Very thoughtful reply of yours and much appreciated. And yeah, from what I've read, I think I'm probably more of a WGSL person though I've been around several DDR dogs over the past year that got along quite well with Kodi and my son and were a pleasure to be around. Anyway, their owners said that they were DDR and they looked it but I'm novice enough to be duped if they were just ignorant but more informed than myself.
Do you think that $1500 is reasonable for what I'm looking to get? Also, if I go with any other WGSL breeder, please PM me any breeders you would steer clear of if not too much trouble. And thanks again for a very informative reply.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

If you want to take a look at this breeders site. She breeds quality, healthy, sound temperament. Not everyone is on the DM testing band wagon yet. Still lots of controversy about the testing/results. 

Austerlitz German Shepherd Dogs


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## Cheyanna (Aug 18, 2012)

What is DM?


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

dawnandjr said:


> If you want to take a look at this breeders site. She breeds quality, healthy, sound temperament. Not everyone is on the DM testing band wagon yet. Still lots of controversy about the testing/results.
> 
> Austerlitz German Shepherd Dogs


dawnandjr,

Thanks for the link. Will check them out.


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

Cheyanna said:


> What is DM?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Hey Cheyanna,

DM is degenerative myelopathy. Myelo refers to the spinal cord and pathy in "med speak" means "something wrong." In truth, it can cause a myeloradiculopathy with radiculo referring to the nerve roots. This is kind of like a Lou Gehrig's Disease for dogs. Very very debilitating. It is a recessive trait so the dog needs to get a gene from each parent to have it. However, it is my understanding that there have been some dogs that have gotten this with only one gene which doesn't seem possible. However, I don't know much about these cases. If they are basing the diagnosis simply on clinical presentation (how the dog looks) then it could have been another similar condition from a different undiscovered cause such as a much rarer gene mutation that presents in a similar fashion. By the way, to dawnandjr, could you steer me in the right direction on some literature regarding the controversy. I'd like to research that as I was not aware of this. But I'm not an expert on dog genetics so I really haven't googled it all that much. Pretty interesting stuff though. Thanks in advance.


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

*New Question*

Hey folks,

So I talked to the breeder today and he is not going to be doing a repeat breeding between the parents of my current dog. He owns the female and will be breeding her with another WGSL dog that is an import and heavily titled (Sch3, IPO3, VA, kkl1) with great health background. The father is a very pretty dog and the mother should be coming into heat in early February so pup would be available likely in June.
Given that it won't be a repeat breeding, I'm just not as excited. I know that part of this is me wanting to replicate my current dog but I also know that isn't possible even with a sibling much less a half-sibling. The pros of getting a dog from this litter are that I know the breeder is a good guy who takes care of his dogs and is readily accessible. Also, I really love his female. I met her in person and she was slightly aloof but seemed very confident and opened up to us fairly quickly. I also find her very pretty (looks angulated in her stack photos like the WGSLs always do but totally different in person watching her move).
All that being said, I do love the black and red GSDs but I am also a fan of sable. After careful consideration, as Lee (wolfstraum) wrote, I definitely feel I will likely be happier with the temperament of a WGSL as opposed to a DDR. So even though I find the DDRs quite striking, I won't go with that line. So my new question is "any chance of finding a good dog with a WGSL temperament with sable markings?" Patterned sable is attractive as well. Again, just looking for a pet for a relatively high energy home that includes the dogs with most activities. Any breeder recs would be welcome. May just go with the original breeder even though the pups will be quite expensive but want to weigh all my options given how much this purchase will impact my family's life. Also, if anyone would like to offer any critique on the male that will be bred with my boy's mom, they can PM me and I'll send the link to them.
Thanks in advance.

Kodi-ak

P.S. By the way, nice to be here on the forum. What a great resource.


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## d4lilbitz (Dec 30, 2013)

Hi Kodi-ak, 

Just sent you a PM. I new to the forum as well. It's extremely helpful. I enjoy learning more about this amazing breed!


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## huntergreen (Jun 28, 2012)

op, sounds like your gsd is not fully trained yet. a new pup could set you back quite a bit training wise. just something to consider.


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## Kodi-ak (Oct 28, 2013)

huntergreen said:


> op, sounds like your gsd is not fully trained yet. a new pup could set you back quite a bit training wise. just something to consider.


Thanks,

Definitely something to consider. He knows all of his basic commands and follows them really well. The main thing I have a problem with is when he's playing with other dogs, his recall is almost non-existent (we frequent the dog park quite often. Yes, I'm one of "those guys"). However, we can be anywhere and if no other dogs are around, he is pretty sound. I guess I'm not sure just where he should be obedience-wise before we get another dog. Does he have to have rock-solid recall? He's never off-leash unless in an enclosed space. Any thoughts on goals for obedience before getting another dog?


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I dont think his recall needs to be solid before you get another puppy. Your at least 5 months out from getting one anyway (if the litter hasnt been bred yet). You can work on his recall with distractions. Go to the dog park, but stay out of the area that is fenced with the other dogs. Do you clicker train? You can work on redirecting his focus back to you when you call his name (doesnt have to come since you are just calling his name). This is on leash. Just start with the focus on you when you call his name. After this is mastered, with a longer leash, so he is farther away from you. Work on the focus on you when called. After that is solid. Work on the recall up close. Like right in front of you. Gradually extend this distance. Breaking down the exercises into tiny successes is how you get that solid training.


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