# Multiple breeders lists



## willw (Aug 27, 2011)

Hello! First time post here. I have been reading on this great forum for a while now and I have a question. My wife and I are thinking of getting a German Shephers puppy this coming Spring or Summer time frame and was wondering if its cool to contact multiple breeders and get on their contact lists if they except us as a puppy customer? We are on two contact lists now and I was thinking that we should get on a couple more to have a better chance to obtain a puppy next year. Two af the breeders are closely associated here in Ohio and I just want to make sure we don't upset a breeder cause we are on more that one contact list. Thanks, Will


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Usually being in contact with multiple breeders is fine. If you put deposits down on a prospective litter, just remember most deposits are non-refundable if you decide to go with a different breeder due to timing or distance. Also, if you do place deposits with breeders, make sure the deposit has a time limit on your behalf, ie, you get the deposit back if breeder hasn't produced a puppy within your parameters within 1 year (or whatever time the breeder is comfortable with). 
If you are so inclined, you could post with a bit about you and your wife and what your aspirations for your new pup are (family pet, agility, schutzhund, whatever). There are many folks on this forum that can help steer you in a productive direction.

Annette


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If you have contracted to purchase a puppy, that is given them your word or a deposit that you will buy a puppy from them, then you should honor that if they have a litter. This is why many of us do not wait for deposits to breed, we do not take deposits until puppies are on the ground. That way we know we can deliver and can be justifiably annoyed if a customer tells us they already got a puppy elsewhere when ours are between six and eight weeks old. 

However, contacting many breeders and getting an understanding about them and their breeding policies and being on their contact list is fine in my opinion. Then when each of these breeders contacts you, you can go and look at the litter, or decide whether you want to put down a deposit to hold a puppy.


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

We were on the list for two breeders (Grand Canyon and Sequoyah). I made it clear to Sequoyah when we contacted them that Grand Canyon had been contacted first and that we would be going with GC if there were enough puppies. They understood and were cool with that...

Just be upfront and let the breeders know that you are on more than one list. Most will understand that being on a list is no guarantee (especially if you are not in the first two or three on the list), and will understand your reason for being on more than one...

However, once you put a deposit down you've made a binding arrangement...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

When you contact a breeder, there is more to buying a pup than getting your name on a "list" IMO....I want to develop a relationship with potential buyer and make sure they will be successful in their goals for a pup - no matter if it is a companion pup or a competition pup....playing off several breeders by being on a waiting list is a bit deceptive - asking to be on a waiting list is a commitment and the breeders can end up losing other homes because they are assuming you want a pup if you ask to be 'on the waiting list'....People have been known to put deposits down on several litters....I refuse to take deposits - if I don't have pups, that way I am not holding someone's money ransom until I do! IF I did have a deposit, and someone backed out when the pup was a few weeks old and got a pup elsewhere I would probably not think too kindly about them because at that point, I would have invested a lot of time and energy and consideration of their goals and the litter....

Lee


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the name on the list of multiple breeders sort of reminded me of some reality game show, the Bachelor or what ever else they have in the type.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

I agree with Lee. 

If it were me, and I knew that the person was on more than one " list", personally I would pretty much forget about them. I want customers that want to buy from ME, not that just want to maybe buy from me, IF it is convenient and they don't find something better, cheaper ect.... When you say you are on their "contact list" what EXACTLY do you mean? That you want to be contacted when a breeding happens, when there are puppies on the ground, or what?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If someone loses their house because you did not buy a puppy from them, then they probably shouldn't be breeding dogs. So much can happen between now, and when my litter is due to be ready to go home in both my life and prospective puppy buyer's lives, not to mention that just because the bitch was bred does not mean that there will be puppies. I really do not count on the sale until the money is in the bank. 

But if people are making breeding decisions on how many people they have waiting for their puppies and then people back out, the puppies can take longer to sell, and it an overall pain in the butt. People shouldn't ought to do that. So, on both sides, I am interested, let me know when you have a litter -- should not mean I am going to buy one of them for sure. And, I am looking at three different litters at this point, I am very interested in yours for this reason, should not be a total turn off either.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

selzer said:


> If someone loses their house because you did not buy a puppy from them, then they probably shouldn't be breeding dogs.


 Where did that come from?


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## willw (Aug 27, 2011)

*Thanks*

I just wanted to say thanks for all your input and I have my answer to my question. We have not put a deposit down on a puppy yet with either breeder. I will contact breeder number 2 and explain that we are already on another breeders contact list and see what she says. It was good to hear the opinions from some of the breeders here on this forum. Thanks much. Will


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

My dog's breeder didn't want any deposit until they did an interview with me and was certain that I was serious about getting a pup. They also had to be sure they wanted one of their pups to be placed with me.... 
They were also up front to the fact that there may _not_ be a pup for me in the planned litter. 
Stated that they would rather refund the deposit, than hold it over for another litter. 

I would not want to be placed on 'multiple lists' and when I was sure I wanted a pup from a certain breeder, then I contacted them about being placed on a reserve list for a particular upcoming breeding. 
It is only fair to the breeder to be serious about committing. That way the breeder can be fair to prospective owners.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

BlackGSD said:


> Where did that come from?


A kind of bazaar statement I read in Lee's post. Only, I read it as, "and the breeders can end up losing their homes because..." So instead of a type-o, it was a read-o -- sorry, should have known Lee wasn't saying that:

Quote "When you contact a breeder, there is more to buying a pup than getting your name on a "list" IMO....I want to develop a relationship with potential buyer and make sure they will be successful in their goals for a pup - no matter if it is a companion pup or a competition pup....playing off several breeders by being on a waiting list is a bit deceptive - *asking to be on a waiting list is a commitment and the breeders can end up losing other homes because they are assuming you want a pup if you ask to be 'on the waiting list'*....People have been known to put deposits down on several litters....I refuse to take deposits - if I don't have pups, that way I am not holding someone's money ransom until I do! IF I did have a deposit, and someone backed out when the pup was a few weeks old and got a pup elsewhere I would probably not think too kindly about them because at that point, I would have invested a lot of time and energy and consideration of their goals and the litter....

Lee"
_______


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

you can look at it from a slightly different angle.
I have had pups which I had promised to someone . Along comes another interested party and they love one of the pups and bribe me with privileges (breeding) , extra cash . 
Out right flat no.
I have integrity . My word is my bond . 

But as a prospective buyer wouldn't you want that security that the breeder was really interested in you , interested in long term relation to make sure that you and the pup have the best possible future. 
It wouldn't be right to have multiple claims on a dog and then have some competition as to who offers the best perks.

When a litter is still very young - say up to 5 weeks of age I welcome people to come as often as they want , as often as they can to see the pups , ask questions, see the pups in action as they develop , and generally interact . It gives me the opportunity to understand the potential new owner and the pups and make best decisions possible for making the right choice . 

I challenge them to go look elsewhere to make sure that they do want a pup from my litter. Go see and compare.
I want to make sure that they have their mind made up .

"IF" they choose at that point to get a pup from somewhere else, then they have to go back to that breeder for service. 

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Alot depends on what you mean by "on a list". In my example above, there was two very different levels of commitment, but in both cases we were "on a list". 

With Grand Canyon we had expressed very firm interest and commitment, and had said so to her. However, we were like 6 on the list (and 4th for a male), so it wasn't like it was for sure. Barbara does not take deposits until pups are on the ground. We knew we really liked her program, and wanted a pup from her if possible.

With Sequoyah however, it was more a matter of wanting to find out about her program. We were open and honest with Sherle that Grand Canyon was our first choice. The breeding was not happening until Nov, and our status with GCK9 would be clear long before that happened.

"On a list" does not necessarily mean having made a commitment, reservation, or placed a deposit... Once a firm commitment is made it needs to honored, and that goes both ways.

ETA: I suppose one could argue that we were not actually "on the list" with Sequoyah. But again, that goes back to my first sentence. It all depends on what is meant by "on a list"


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

BTW I see you're interested in breeders in Ohio and while I'm sure there's a plethora of good ones out there, there's a huge puppy mill industry in that state as well.
Why not post for opinions here if you haven't already, on some of the breeders, to makes sure you'll not be supporting a BYB or puppy mill?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Breeders can do things differently and still be ethical. When I was breeding Beaucerons I would not even contemplate the breeding until I had 3-4 deposits. Since it was a rare breed there was a very real likelihood that you would get 10 puppies and be left with half to raise into adulthood and place. Luckily that never happened to me, but I was pretty firm about not producing a litter unless I had a number of good homes locked in. I waited over a year for my first Beauceron, and that was the average wait period for a pup(sometimes twice that long!). The funny part was that most of the people breeding at that time knew each other (we had to, it was the only way to expand the gene pool) and would know right away if a buyer was putting out multiple deposits. With our breed, just being able to keep the deposit wasn't a good thing, being left with a puppy that may take months to sell was an issue.
Now being in contact with multiple breeders strikes me as completely normal and wise. We tell everyone here to research before buying, how are they supposed to do that without contacting multiple breeders? Signing contracts with multiple breeders is a totally different thing, but the OP said contact. 
Personally I could think of a dozen or more breeders right now that I would happily purchase a puppy from (quite a few on this forum) and if I were in the market right now I would contact as many as I could and ask them their breeding plans for the future. Asking them to contact me if a breeding I was interested in occurred seems perfectly logical and above board. If breeder 1 had a planned litter in November and breeder 2 had a planned breeding in March, I would ask each to let me know if they did the breeding and whether it took. I don't see anything wrong with that. Plus it depends on how many other buyers they have lined up ahead of you, that will change whether I keep looking or not.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

The thing is now with websites, breeders get tons of inquiries from people who are basically window shopping....and all seem to want to be contacted when you have a litter...have spent hours and hours with people who want to be contacted and then find that they bought a pup from the Sunday paper a week later! So I don't keep a list for "just contact me when you do a breeding" At the same time, I have 2 people (lol MAYBE 3! ) who I have been communicating with for several years waiting for pups....one almost bought the G litter female, could not decide, and then was too late...and has been waiting for a year now (got back in touch after the I's were sold) and the other has been waiting for a pup for flyball and OB for over 2 years as well - she knows a couple of mine and wants one from the same family. I have a folder just full of inquiries - some contacts are just one or two emails, some never respond after the first contact and some are so extensive, they get subfolders....If someone is really interested in a pup, they need to stay in touch periodically and let the breeder know that they are serious about getting a puppy.

Lee


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

I just bought a puppy from a breeder.

Here's my take on this:

The web makes anyone look like a good breeder. You can look at a well done website, and think that you're talking to the best in the world.
When we shopping, we spoke to some very nice breeders. Looking back, we now realize how many of them were back yard breeders, with a shared litter with the next door neighbor.

I will say that EVERYONE we spoke to was very informative, and in their defense, could wind up spending a lot of the talking to people, who will never buy from them.

Not sure what you're looking for, but speak to people around the country. Many breeders know of other breeders from shows, that have current litters to offer.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

When people call me I generally tell them who and when I intend to breed, and when puppies are likely to arrive, and ask them to contact me if that is good timing for them. I used to say I would contact them when I have a litter. Now I say, give me a call in the end of November and I will let you know what will be available, etc. if I am expecting a litter to be whelped in the middle of November.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

That's true too. A lot of good breeders will promote another breeder's puppies and give you their name and contact information. A lot of people will not wait, if you cannot offer anything until January, the sale is lost. But if you have a friend who has puppies that will be ready in October, then she maybe gets a sale, and in December maybe she sends someone your way. Also I give our club's contact information to people looking for puppies if I have none. It is not a sure-fire way to get a puppy from an excellent breeder, but I think that breeders involved in a breed club, either showing or performance or working, have some level of accountability.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

We have never had a problem with referring potential puppy homes to other breeders.....especially when we do not have a puppy that can fit their criteria or time span.
But...I do frown when prospects continually contact me for a puppy, and I *do* hold them on a "specific" list....just to find out at the last minute that they have chosen to go elsewhere, or have changed their minds......since, I will not hold a puppy for one person...and then sell it to another. Instead, I just pass on a potential home and refer them elsewhere......_that bothers me._
I've also "held on to" a puppy in the past for about 5 xtra weeks (instead of selling it) because the person was *serious* about the pup....just to have them change their mind at the last minute......_that bothers me too._
I would never mind "holding on to" a pup for a potential great home.....but PLEASE be serious about the puppy....now...I will require a larger deposit for such a situation. Money aside.....it will always be about the best home for the puppy.*.....so I will always work with my puppy people.


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## boeselager (Feb 26, 2008)

I pretty much agree with what Lee and Robin have stated. For me as a breeder it would be dishearten to have the right pup for the person/family and then at the last minute was told that they went with someone else (cheaper pup change of mind, etc), or I don't hear from them at all. I invest a lot of my time, etc in every puppy as well as potential puppy clients and then to find out their on another list. That's kind of saying that I'm their 2nd or 3rd choice and no one wants to hear that. IMO, I would not put myself on mulitple waiting lists for 1 puppy. I would do my research on all the breeders I was interested in, and pick 1 that I'm more comfortable talking with etc, and 1 that I feel I can trust.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

I have contacted a breeder with a verbal commitment to buy a puppy from her litter and have life situations change on me that require me to pass on the current litter of have the puppy be held for a longer period of time.

For me, I felt really bad contacting the breeder when the puppies were 4 weeks old and telling her I don't think I could make the original "puppy drop off" date. From my perspective, I was already a "sold" customer, and now she might have to find another home for a 4 week old puppy. That doesn't give the breeder a lot of time. 

I think once the puppies are on the ground and the breeder has contacted you saying one of them is yours, it's incredibly awful to not be at that point in the sales process and say "oh by the way, we're looking at another one as well". So from my perspective, I can understand how the breeders wouldn't think seriously of someone who was in close contact with 2 breeders who were interchangeable in terms of which breeder to buy the puppy from.


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## Barb E (Jun 6, 2004)

wolfstraum said:


> At the same time, I have 2 people (lol MAYBE 3! ) who I have been communicating with for several years waiting for pups....Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Barb E said:


>



Hexe is enormous gigundous.....Oct 4 - 7???????

LOL LOL LOL


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

BR870 said:


> Alot depends on what you mean by "on a list". In my example above, there was two very different levels of commitment, but in both cases we were "on a list".
> 
> With Grand Canyon we had expressed very firm interest and commitment, and had said so to her. However, we were like 6 on the list (and 4th for a male), so it wasn't like it was for sure. Barbara does not take deposits until pups are on the ground. We knew we really liked her program, and wanted a pup from her if possible.
> 
> ...


I know its weird I am quoting myself, but anyway...

We are getting a pup from Grand Canyon, btw... Pups are 5 weeks as of writing this, and we can't wait. 

The breeding for Sequoyah is not for another month or more, so personally I don't see how we put her in a bad position. We were upfront with her that Grand Canyon was our first choice. We think both breeders were spectacular though. But its not like we put Sequoyah in a position where the breeding has already happened and then she found out we were going with Grand Canyon. We told her upfront that was a possibility, and that we could give her a solid yes/no well in advance of the breeding, which we did...


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

BR870, I don't think any of the comments made were directed at you or what you did. You were completely upfront & honest with both breeders which is what I think the issue is with other potential buyers that 'want to be on a list'. As some breeders here noted, there are people who act not only interested, but actually committed to buying a pup from 'em, only to renege when the pup is ready to go to its forever home. 

It's definitely a 2 way street. I expect honesty & integrity from breeders & I give them that same respect. I knew I wanted a pup from Djibouti's breeder & I wasn't in a hurry. I waited some months longer than I would have had to b/c one breeding I especially liked didn't have enough pups & other breedings didn't resonate with me as strongly. Every day he proves well worth the wait!


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> BR870, I don't think any of the comments made were directed at you or what you did. You were completely upfront & honest with both breeders which is what I think the issue is with other potential buyers that 'want to be on a list'. As some breeders here noted, there are people who act not only interested, but actually committed to buying a pup from 'em, only to renege when the pup is ready to go to its forever home.
> 
> It's definitely a 2 way street. I expect honesty & integrity from breeders & I give them that same respect. I knew I wanted a pup from Djibouti's breeder & I wasn't in a hurry. I waited some months longer than I would have had to b/c one breeding I especially liked didn't have enough pups & other breedings didn't resonate with me as strongly. Every day he proves well worth the wait!


Yeah, I know they weren't directed at me. However, since the general consensus is that its bad form, I was just trying to make our situation clear. I did not feel that we had done anything wrong, and did not want to get lumped in with those who had...

BTW, your dog has the best name ever bar none...


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

There is nothing wrong with _talking_ about your plans to two or more breeders, getting to know them, them getting to know you, letting them know that you have not yet made up your mind and are in the information gathering phase of your search. Scenarios like yours, BR870, where you are looking at available timeframes, and are clear to the breeders about it, are normal, and any breeder will understand. 

The 'bad form' is when people pretend to be committed to a breeder on a certain litter, hide the fact that they are so worried about not getting a pup that they are also pretending to be committed to a number of other breeders for certain litters (because then the chances of getting one is higher), but feel completely justified in being deceiving from the beginning and changing their mind and backing out at the last second because they got a better price, or nicer colour, or whatever reason. That's just being dishonest, and that is bad form no matter the context.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Marshies...you know that I love you!!
I would never think that a person _like yourself_.....would be less than honest about their situation or intentions.. You're a good cookie in my bag!! LOL!


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> Marshies...you know that I love you!!
> I would never think that a person _like yourself_.....would be less than honest about their situation or intentions.. You're a good cookie in my bag!! LOL!



Haha! I didn't see your response until after I posted. And I was like, now Robin'll think I'm fishing for compliments! 

I'm glad you think I'm still a good cookie.  I think you're a good cookie too. 

But I wanted to use my example and apply it to the OP's original queries. I think the OP is within their rights to contact and seek information from more than 1 breeder. However, if they were as far in the process as I am, I think 2 breeders would be too many.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Not gonna lie, I "window shopped" a bit for Pan. I had committed to a different breeding. My TD/helper was getting a puppy and said it was a good litter so he contacted his friend (doing the breeding) and put me down for another male. Well the breeding didn't "take". The breeder does not have websites, is not blogging, not someone on their e-mail on a smartphone 24/7 so by the time I learned for certain that the breeding didn't take I had already made the major adjustments that go along with bringing home a new working line puppy and I'd saved up the money. Because I work full time I like to get pups in the fall when it is cooler so I can have them at work with me and let them out several times a day, plus train and socialized on breaks so the timing was right but no pregnancy. So, I did shop around for a puppy. I had contacted Bill and Jenn a few years ago, before I got Nikon so I looked at their current litter and also contacted Rinus in Belgium about his litters, Nate Harves, Claudia Romard, Pia Blackwell, etc and admittedly I was mostly interested in current or upcoming litters because of the timing. I ended up getting Pan from Bill because his pedigree is almost a reverse of the dog I would have gotten if the original breeding took and I have always been a fan of Boy von Zorra.


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## willw (Aug 27, 2011)

I have contacted the 2nd breeder and explained to her that I had already been in contact with a breeder previously and was to be contacted when female had concieved. She had no problem with that and said that she would still contact me with pictures and info. just because we had shown intrest. Breeder number 1 Trish, who owns Locherie German Shepherds is letting us visit her home next week to see her dogs. We are very excited to be going. Will


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Lies, committing to a particular litter (& time) isn't the same as committing to a particular breeder, IMO. The breeder you'd initially selected wasn't able to deliver as needed & under those circumstances it's reasonable & fair to look elsewhere. 

Buyers & breeders circumstances vary. I think we all agree that both sides are entitled to open, honest communication. Those buyers that put deposits on multiple litters & then howl when they don't get the deposit back are both foolish & underhanded. I don't think anyone here has much sympathy for them.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

But I don't really "select" breeders, I select dogs. I don't see anything wrong with shopping around or "window shopping" litters I guess. If someone's motivation is just to get a puppy - any puppy - as fast as possible I doubt there's much I can do to convince them otherwise so instead of trying to convince people to wait months or years to get a dog I'd rather suggest some breeders that have nice litters on the ground or upcoming. Not saying this is the case w/ the OP but we've seen it here before and generally that person doesn't respond anymore and gets a dog anyway.

As for deposits I can't comment, I don't really do that and wouldn't put any money at all toward a dog I didn't fully intend to buy. If a breeder had a non-refundable deposit I'd walk away no hard feelings, not put down a deposit and then complain I can't get it back if I change my mind.


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