# 2 Dogs, only 1 doing schutzhund... Help!



## PrinceJames (Jun 15, 2015)

Hi everyone, I will be getting a male GSD at 8 weeks of age in a month exactly from today. I plan on training him at the local schutzhund club to my home. My question is that I have a female GSD at home who is not trained in schutzhund. I have been told that I should keep them apart in the home and have them not spend too much time together. Is this correct, I feel like that might be excessive and will add alot of unnecessary trouble to my plate, exercise, socializing, feeding, training, etc... If anyone can help me out with this as well as give me any pointers as this will be my first time actually participating in this great adventure of a sport. Thank you all in advance!


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

If you leave your new pup out with your older dog he will bind closer to your other dog than you. I've raised a few puppies and have done SchH / IPO with them. I keep my puppies away from my older and only have "supervised" visits for a few minutes at a time. I do this until my puppy gets too be around 6 -7 months. Then they can have more time together. The puppy spends the bulk of it's time with me. I interact with the pup, imprinting, foundation work and the fundamentals. I become the center of my pup's universe, not my other dogs. As the dog gets older he can spend the whole day in the yard with my other dogs, but not as a young puppy.

Just my opinion, FWIW. I'm sure others may disagree.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I never separated mine and had no issues. But Jim has raised far more puppies and IPO dogs than I!


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## PrinceJames (Jun 15, 2015)

Slamdunc said:


> If you leave your new pup out with your older dog he will bind closer to your other dog than you. I've raised a few puppies and have done SchH / IPO with them. I keep my puppies away from my older and only have "supervised" visits for a few minutes at a time. I do this until my puppy gets too be around 6 -7 months. Then they can have more time together. The puppy spends the bulk of it's time with me. I interact with the pup, imprinting, foundation work and the fundamentals. I become the center of my pup's universe, not my other dogs. As the dog gets older he can spend the whole day in the yard with my other dogs, but not as a young puppy.
> 
> Just my opinion, FWIW. I'm sure others may disagree.


What do you do with your older dog? Don't want to neglect her and cause any type of emotional damage or anything that'll cause her to start acting out negatively....


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

PrinceJames said:


> What do you do with your older dog? Don't want to neglect her and cause any type of emotional damage or anything that'll cause her to start acting out negatively....


I work and spend time with all my dogs. None of them have ever had any emotional damage or act out and certainly are not neglected.  

I do not want my puppies being dominated by older dogs, I do not want them having to submit to older dogs or any dogs. I also do not let anyone dominate my pups. If someone wants to play with my puppy it is under my rules. The big rule is that the puppy always wins. No one ever corrects my young dogs or even tells them no. Once they get older that is no longer an issue, especially with the males that I have owned. 

Remember, to think about each exercise in IPO and break them down into there most fundamental components. Once you understand the basics, you can start imprinting your puppy. I start 7 - 8 week old puppies tracking from day one. I teach a super fast recall and out motivationally right off the bat. There are a lot of things that you can do with a pup t lay a foundation for IPO down the road. 

Check out the book, Purely Positive training by Sheila Booth. One of the best books written on raising a working a dog for IPO.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

When I got Gryffon, I spent the first year keeping him separated from Keeta, my older dog. Also did the same with another puppy that I was raising for IPO, and had him for about a year. As others have said, spending too much time with another dog can make them really doggy so that they are always wanting to interact with other dogs, and they ignore you. 

Keeta and Gryffon would be allowed approximately one hour of supervised outside play a day. In the house, I often left them out loose, but I had a rule about no rough-housing, so they had to be calm, and busy with their own things, like a bone or a kong. With the other puppy I had, he wouldn't stop easily, so there was some crating and baby-gates set up to ensure separation. 

I did walk the two dogs together, but again, I expect impeccable leash manners, so not rough housing or playing during walks. I often took the pup out for walks on his own so we could play and interact and do a bit of training during our walks. 

For the first year I had Gryff, I took him to work with me, and he stayed in the car, getting walks and play-time during my breaks and lunch. As a matter of fact, I'm still doing this on a daily basis, 9 years later . 

I'd take my two dog to obedience class, taking two classes, one after another, each class with one dog. Training for IPO, did lots and lots of engagement, one-on-one tug playing. The extra effort paid off. Keeta and Gryff could be out in a huge empty field, chasing each other full tilt involved in the game (Keeta had a crazy energy that scared many dogs, but Gryff just fed on it), and I could call Gryffon and he would instantly break away and come running to me. If going for an off-leash walk on the trails, Gryff would spend the first five minutes pestering me to play tug with a stick he found, and only after I won't engage him did he turn to Keeta and try to engage her in play. 

We often have people come to our club, who are not willing to separate their new IPO pup from the other household dogs, and are very discouraged when the pup shows a lack of interest in chasing the rag, playing with the helper, or focusing on the handler. They we hear: "I don't understand why my dog is so remote and low energy here - he runs all day like a maniac with my other dogs, I never thought he would show a lack of drive and energy."

Not a lack of drive or energy, just not interested in anything else but playing with the packmates.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

PrinceJames said:


> What do you do with your older dog? Don't want to neglect her and cause any type of emotional damage or anything that'll cause her to start acting out negatively....


If you act like everything is normal, your dog will pick up on this and adapt. 

If you act stressed and guilty, she will know that something is up.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree with Slamdunc. Although I am sure there are exceptions. I think it is wise to limit a young pup"s exposure to your other dogs since you are planning on training seriously. I also feel, it is important for any type of training you want to do, whether IPO, or another discipline. It is desirable to have your pup bonded well with you, and those early months are important for imprinting.

I know some who have multiple dogs and"let the older ones raise the others", or so they say. For serious training, this is not desirable. The pup learns to look to his elder pack for learning more than you.

JMHO?


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

@;


Slamdunc said:


> If you leave your new pup out with your older dog he will bind closer to your other dog than you. I've raised a few puppies and have done SchH / IPO with them. I keep my puppies away from my older and only have "supervised" visits for a few minutes at a time. I do this until my puppy gets too be around 6 -7 months. Then they can have more time together. The puppy spends the bulk of it's time with me. I interact with the pup, imprinting, foundation work and the fundamentals. I become the center of my pup's universe, not my other dogs. As the dog gets older he can spend the whole day in the yard with my other dogs, but not as a young puppy.
> 
> Just my opinion, FWIW. I'm sure others may disagree.


That sounds like sound advice to me, as I am recovering from doing the opposite. Brought in a GSD pup- 5 months old, to my house that had an 8 month old rather anxious pit puppy. They bonded which I naively thought was great for both of them. Well, it was great for the pit who had someone to share in the constant vigil of the sky, lest it start falling. I started to notice some anxiety out of the younger GSD pup when he was separated from the little pit. When we were out he was always paying attention to what the pit was doing and were he was. That was a few weeks ago and I have now been keeping them separate and breaking up training, trip out, etc. I'm working on regaining his driven attention. Already seeing a difference. 

I'm an active pet home, not a working or sport home, but even I started to notice on my own the downside of too much bonding too young and too quickly. And being a pet home, yes I felt guilty having one crated or leaving one behind. They were/are fine with it, I'm the one who had to get over it lol


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

I am more with Jax. My life is just not set up to separate the dogs all the time. If I am home - all the dogs are out (unless the pup at the time needed a time out). My current two (now 3 and 4) had plenty of activities/walks/training separated from the older dogs (I had three total when TJ was a puppy). They are both bonded more to me than each other, even with only a year age difference. Even now - they do different activities (training, hikes, walks, etc) without the other multiple times a week.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I look at 2 things. The size difference, because the play can be pretty wild with 2 shepherds and like what Slam said, I don't want the puppy looking to have all his fun with another dog when I'm using play to create a foundation. I don't keep them away from each other so much as just supervise so I avoid any problems.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Anyone notice a dog that just naturally prefers people to playing with other dogs and No cautionary steps needed?


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I have always allowed my dogs to run and play with adult dogs as long as the adult dog isn't a bully. I don't want the puppy hurt. I can even ask for obedience and end up with two dogs trying to get into position. They want to work with me despite the fun with the other dogs. I have never had an issue with this through 7 IPO dogs and 2 AKC obedience only dogs.

Want to add that I do tend to handle females with very strong personalities and desires to work. No mushy soft dogs that might be overly influenced by a stronger playmate.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

The most number of dogs I have had simultaneously was 3: 2 males and 1 female. The 2 males had free access to each other when out of their kennels or crates when one was a puppy and the other an adult. Of course, once the puppy's testosterone kicked in, two dominant males had to be separated and rotated. They both trained in IPO and I had no problem getting each one's attention since the other one was always in a crate or kennel when one was being worked. The female always had free access to each one of the males at a time, she didn't train in IPO, but in herding. Again no problems getting her attention when being worked. These dogs were always naturally much more interested in me than in each other even though I didn't feel like I did anything special for that. They were just born to be focused on their handler. I did spend a lot of one-on-one time with each but they also spent a lot of time with each other and played constantly when together. They had a very fun life.


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## Shepdad (Oct 24, 2017)

I remember that when I went to visit these puppies at their breeders before they were ready to be picked up, they always left their litter mates to come to me. Even when they were playing with their litter mates they just seemed more interested to be with a human. So maybe this is something you can see in puppies. Experienced breeders may be able to tell.


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## gsdluvr (Jun 26, 2012)

Nigel said:


> Anyone notice a dog that just naturally prefers people to playing with other dogs and No cautionary steps needed?


Yes I definitely notice that! I assumed it was because of the way I raised them?


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I have prepared Deja for a long time now to spend time in her outdoor kennel every day for just this purpose. She enjoys it there, is able to sniff the forest scene around her but only once she has been exercised and worked with. I am planning to intro her to protection as well, along with the pup, who I also get in a month.


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## BoTaBe (May 2, 2013)

I guess everyone has their own opinion on that topic, but I wouldn't even think about separating my puppy from my older dogs because I plan on doing IPO?! No matter which sport you have in mind later, for me personally it is more important to have a well socialized dog... Only exception that someone mentioned before: In case the older dog was a bully - I definitely wouldn't want the puppy to be bullied at an early age.

But maybe just to illustrate. That's my puppy 3 days after I got her with my other dog:






3 years later - she has done her IPO3 several times, always with a very good Schutzdienst (is it the right word in English? Or is it protection work? Not quite sure... But you know what I mean - hopefully :wink2.

So yeah, I really don't see the point in separating my puppy from my other dog(s)! I would never do it! :smile2:


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