# Reactive



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Still working with this issue with our 3 yr old Storm.

Can others share books, dvds, etc that has been a big help for you ?

Also any methods you have tried or did ?

Anyone have a reactive dog that's now fine (doesn't need to be a GSD) ?

Storm is fine with some & just goes off at others. I have tried to relax, but hard when you know something might happen so you feel on guard all the time, not good I know.









It's mainly just a loud sound, slight lundge forward & it's over. I don't see any hackels up, hear growling before, etc., just more like a nervous type focus & as the dog comes closer is when it happens.



Just fishing for some more advice..............



~Thanks~


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## victoria_warfel (Nov 29, 2007)

Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt


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## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: Victoria & JediControl Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt


Yep. Exactly what I was going to recommend, too. Find a trainer who is familiar with the protocol so you can get guidance on how to do each exercise.

I had some pretty good results with my fearfully reactive GSD.
Sheilah


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks

Good book stores or places online (links) to find used or new ? Tried eBay & couldn't find on there.

I'm just not sure if he's scared of certain other dogs or what it is ? This has racked my brain so bad as in why he does this. 

Hard to find a trainer that will help you with this kind of situation. I'm sometimes unsure how to handle it, get at him when he does, be more positive, etc ! So confused on how to go about it. He has been out in public since a pup, no other issues other than this. I didn't dog socialize him (didn't have friends or places like that then).


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## victoria_warfel (Nov 29, 2007)

dogwise.com is a good place to find the book -- http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB943

She has an exercise in the book, where the dog looks at what triggers him (from a distance where it doesn't set him off) and you click/treat. He learns that what he used to fear is no big deal. This works WONDERFUL for many dogs - if your dog is too friendly and wants to maul other dogs, if you dog is reactive/fearful to other dogs/people/noises/etc.


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## BucksMom (Aug 13, 2007)

Try your library.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: BucksMomTry your library.


Smart butt.............LOL









I was wanting to find used if possible. I'm so bad about libraries as I hate to remember to take back ! I don't think I have used a library since high schools days ! I'm bad about reading so DVDs would be great !


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## BucksMom (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm serious, maybe they can get a DVD for you to use until you can find and buy one for yourself. Or the book.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: LuvourGSsStill working with this issue with our 3 yr old Storm.
> 
> Can others share books, dvds, etc that has been a big help for you ?
> 
> ...


Might help to find someone who can go watch this and try to see what about some dogs sets him off and show you how to spot it.

Some body language, visible breed trait, sounds like he's fine with some and not with others which suggests a reason for those he goes off at.

Some dogs go off on insecure dogs, some go off on dominating dogs, dogs of on sex or the other, or other reasons. At least if you learned what to look for it might be easier to work with.

What you describe sounds like what my new rescue does when dogs get too close to me, and she wants them to back off, she's a little fearful and possessive. A little forward lunge and a warning bark/nip not an attack.

I'm curing her by putting her behind me and greeting the dogs myself and showing her it's not her choice to make. Correcting her if she does it to a dog and making sure I greet that dog and overtly accept it with overt petting and rubbing. She's getting the point very quickly.

My other girl Hope did the same at first, and I used the same method, she's way past this now.

I pushed her back behind me and made a very obvious display of affection and petting on the other dog.

Basically showing them it's not their job to guard me and decide who we greet and who we don't. I'm the leader and that's my choice to make.

Getting to the reason your dog does this seems to be the path to take to me.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Books:
<u>Control Unleashed</u> by Leslie McDevitt
<u>Scaredy Dog</u> by Ali Brown
<u>Focus, Not Fear</u> by Ali Brown
<u>Feisty Fido</u> by Patricia McConnell
<u>Click to Calm</u> by Emma Parsons
<u>Fight!</u> by Jean Donaldson

DVDs:
<u>Scaredy Dog</u> by Ali Brown (I own this DVD but haven't watched it yet. However, I did attend the 'Scaredy Dog' seminar with Ali Brown and she said the DVD is basically everything we covered in the seminar.)

Risa is dog reactive. I first realized it was a problem almost 2 years ago. Though it took me several long months before I realized it all stemmed from her fear. These days, she is SO much better. It's almost like night and day. I can bring her out and around other dogs and she will go up and check them out (if I give her permission to do so). Or she'll just ignore them as we walk on by. She's not 'cured' yet as a medium or large dog barking at her will still set her off. However her reactions are much smaller and it's easier to get her calm if she does go off.

The "look at that" exercise mentioned in <u>Control Unleashed</u> has really helped a LOT. You basically start out clicking (or marking if you don't use a clicker) when your dog looks at the thing that scares them (make sure you're subthreshold--this won't work if your dog is reacting). When they hear the click, they will turn back to you for a treat. Eventually, they connect that looking at another dog = a treat. So they will look and look back at you. You can now start clicking the look back.







It's a wonderful behavior. Risa is to the point now that when she is nervous because another dog is a bit too close, she will turn her head back to me both to get a reward and to check in with me and make sure everything is okay.

I also did a lot of classical conditioning with Risa when we most recently moved. We saw dogs EVERY DAY and there was no way around it. So I started bringing tons of treats with me on walks. Whenever we saw a dog, I just started shoveling treats in her mouth. Ideally, you want to keep your dog subthreshold so they don't react. But, even if they do, you just keep moving and giving them treats. Once the dog is out of view, the treats go away. By doing this, you make the sight of another dog a predictor of something good happening. You're not rewarding the dog's behavior. Just teaching them that good things happen when other dogs are around!

What has also helped Risa isn't really a training thing at all. When we're on walks, she does not greet other dogs. Period. This takes a LOT of pressure off of her because she knows that she will not have to interact with another dog while we're out. Sure, that means sometimes I have to walk off the path to avoid an oncoming dog. And sometimes it means being short with people who insist upon letting their dog rush up to yours. There are also some days when we get rushed by off-leash dogs. All I can do those days is hope for the best and try and keep the dog away from Ris. Since she's had more experiences just walking calmly past dogs, being rushed doesn't set us back nearly as much as it used to. There are also a few dogs we see every day who I have judged 'safe' and occasionally Risa gets to say "Hi" to them. But, for the most part, we do NOT meet other dogs while we're out.

If Ris does get over threshold and reacts, I just get her out of there as fast as I can. I do not correct her. I do not yell at her. I just calmly and happily tell her "Let's go" and keep moving her away from the other dog. 

Ris is still a work in progress but she's made amazing strides. Even a year ago I would not have been able to take her to a meetup with many strange dogs. But we were at the NE GSD meetup just last weekend (with at least 15 other dogs) and Ris only had ONE reactive moment.

Good luck!


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i have tried alot of things with my reactive female. seems that a pinch collar or a halti do not work well for her in dog situations. when we pass another dog walking. meet/greet another dog etc. after experimenting i discovered that an actual hands on contact work better for her than training collars etc. meaning when i know she is in the beginning stages of reacting i simply grab onto the side of her neck, sort of like what a dog nip would be, and say "no" this immediately gets her attention and she does not react at all. i think all dogs are different and you have to experiment with all kinds of things before you find the right one.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Hey all, thanks so much for your inputs & advice !









I have begged the only good trainer in our area to help me with this issue, but haven't really got the help I need or would have liked so, trying to do on my own & really unsure about if I'm doing right or not ???

Not sure to have him on a buckle type collar, pronge, or what ? Have tried both. 

I have got to the point when he does react, I grab/pinch side of face & say *NO*. Maybe this is wrong ?

I know when he has did the meet/greet, if when I go to move him away first & by putting a slight pull on the lead, this has caused a reaction. So not sure on the meet/greets & needs to be with people/dogs I know so they understand the situation IMO. Just don't have that either. Dogs he knows, he's fine with, I would like to be able to meet new dogs. 

I'm just not sure which way to go about how to really handle & not make dogs a bad thing. I probably have b/c when I see them, I have been saying *Leave It*. He has done everything with me but be mega dog socialized........bad mistake. He first started to do slight barks (when younger) when we would see dogs out b/c we live out & never see dogs so, when out, he barked, I thought I have an aggressive male (1st male we owned) so, I advoided dogs........we just went the other way.

I do like the idea of you always being in front & petting other dogs while he stays back & watches. Will take work b/c he does like/try to be in/out front.

I just see him get so nervous acting in certain situations & not sure if it's fear or what ? I think so, but some that has seen him react says, not fear. He don't get aggressive as he is a big baby, but he makes his point.

Yesterday while at work, there's a dog next to the shop that runs on a cable & gets so worked up when I bring the dogs out to potty. He whines, barks, & runs back & fourth on his cable, Storm was so nervous acting yesterday while this was going on that I just couldn't get his focus. He wanted to go get in the Jeep (safe zone) asap. I have used the dogs in this not so good of neighborhood for dogs for him to see. He seems to get so nervous b/c many are tied, barking & such. Not a calm walk but more of a looking back, nervous walk, with some slight pulling forward.

I thank you all again for your help & links to the books. If I do buy 1, which would be the #1 to get for this issue ? I'm such a bad book reader, can't get my butt to sit down to read !









~Thanks again~


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

basically training dogs is not much different than bringing up children, teaching right from wrong, whats appropriate and whats not.

not sure if you have had him in classes haven't read all your info, but if not i would find an OB class and have him around dogs on a regular basis. this way he can learn alot from other dogs, and you can correct any ill behaviors with the help of a good trainer.

i think reactiveness is a bahvior that can stem from being fearful, and unsure, or from not being properly socialized from an early age.

i am sure its been mentioned about how you react in these situations, which can add to the response of your dog. if you are the least bit nervous or apprehensive about oncoming meetings with dogs, your dog will pick up on it. so, tightening leash, or your body lauguage is so important. this is why i use hands on correction instead of tightening leash or training collar corrections, for my dog it works. by grasping her fur on the side of her neck firmly enough to get her attention and saying "no" being calm, but asasertive enough so she knows its not appropriate to do this. dogs seem to understand the grab and hold concept because its more like what dogs do with each other.

good luck!
debbie


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Thanks Debbie !









I would love to be able to go meet/greet other dogs, but fear this b/c of what he might do ? Sometimes good meetings & sometimes he reacts so, I get kinda nervous ! I also hate to try this in pulic with reg pet people b/c feel they aren't sure b/c many have no basic training or understand when he does do.

He is in classes, has been in many & still going, but don't do the meet/greet stuff & I am wanting to do this b/c I feel he needs to learn, know, dogs are ok.

Thanks again & your info has been a huge help !


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: LuvourGSsI thank you all again for your help & links to the books. If I do buy 1, which would be the #1 to get for this issue ? I'm such a bad book reader, can't get my butt to sit down to read !


On Jamie's list I've only read Control Unleashed and Feisty Fido so I can't comment on the others. I think Control Unleashed would be perfect - Leslie is an agility trainer and competitor so although the exercises could be used with any dog, they are especially good for dogs who will be around lots of other dogs at trials and need to learn to focus and work under those highly distracting circumstances. 

If you're not much of a reader, she has a DVD out too, that demonstrates everything in the book. I don't have it yet but will probably buy it at some point. The reviews have been excellent, high production values and very easy to navigate. You can buy it from her publisher Clean Run.


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## TxRider (Apr 15, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: Cassidys Mom
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted By: LuvourGSsI thank you all again for your help & links to the books. If I do buy 1, which would be the #1 to get for this issue ? I'm such a bad book reader, can't get my butt to sit down to read !
> ...


I have the book, it's a hard read for me as I don't necessarily agree with everything in it or find it all useful, and I just have a hard time staying in it and not putting it down. And I'm a pretty avid reader.

A DVD might be a much better format for many to use than the book.

I guess my point with my dogs is I try to relieve them of any responsibility of deciding about other dogs. That's my job. 

If I accept the dog as a friend, they should always do so as well, if I do not, they do not have to.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

how old is he? some dogs need Alot of socialization for the first few years because of unsure issues. if you have a good trainer in your classes, she should be able to help you with meet/greets with other dogs. have an understanding that gsd's typically like to dominate other dogs, so probably your dog is kind of going through the confusion stage of domination and fearish feelings. i have one a year and a half old. he has learned alot from the dogs in my agility class. his first response is nervousness when we go into the group every week, and his first response is to charge other dogs. he has learned from other dogs, some will simpley roll over and be still some will face up to him. i have been rewarding him for doing the proper "go up and sniff" other dogs because that is correct dog to dog behavior. if he gets nasty i say "be nice" loudly, and he knows what that means now. i am lucky that most of the dogs in my class are low to mild in temperments so, we know things won't escalate. again, if you have a good trainer that is on top of body lauguage you should be able to socialize supervised in a class. another thing i do if he gets nasty with other dogs is say "bye" and walk away. 99 percent of the time the gsd does not like the owner leaving them, its their source of security and they will most likely stop what they are doing and follow their person. another thing i have done in class if he's onleash and is being vocal and barking at the other dogs while we are waiting our turn is i will tie him to the fence and walk to the other side of the fence in area. he is more concerned about where i am than anything at that point. basically, mom leaves if i start acting like a bone head. all these things can work, but definitely a good trainer should be able to set things up for you in an OB class, etc, and work on things. its just a matter of trying different stuff until something works.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: TxRiderI have the book, it's a hard read for me as I don't necessarily agree with everything in it or find it all useful, and I just have a hard time staying in it and not putting it down.


I'm curious what you don't agree with or find useful. Have you tried any of the exercises?


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

i am sure you can sift through most training information and get something out of it. i know i always find something i can use in both training books and dvd's. where each idividual dog is different it may take combinations a a few different tecniques in order to come up with a solution.


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## DancingCavy (Feb 19, 2001)

Of the books, I would say <u>Control Unleashed</u> and <u>Scaredy Dog</u> are the best bets if you need to narrow it down.









Personally, I would not advise any type of correction for a dog reacting out of fear. Oftentimes, a correction can backfire and your dog can associate the correction with the presence of another dog instead of what you were hoping to correct (the lunge/bark/growl). And then you just make things worse! I find it's better to change the association (make seeing another dog a happy thing) rather than just suppress the behavior (as it can often manifest itself in other ways). 

It's really hard to work with a reactive dog without a trainer's help. Your best bet, really, is to get a qualified trainer who is willing to work with you on desensitizing your dog to the presence of other dogs and work on focusing on you and looking to you for 'advice' on how to behave. I have worked on rehabbing Risa pretty much alone (with just books and the advice of online friends to assist me) so I know exactly how hard it can be. It can take a LOT longer when you go it alone because you're bound to make errors along the way. It's easier when you have a trainer's advice to fall back on. Especially since they can watch you and catch what you're doing wrong.

If you're worried about him meeting other dogs, it's simple. Don't let him meet other dogs. John Q. Dogowner is not usually well-versed in dog communication and will often label your dog 'mean' if it reacts to their dog. Your best bet is to just avoid them. It keeps you calm (you don't have to worry about your dog 'exploding') and it teaches your dog that he don't have to meet every dog he sees. And that has been really important to Risa. She likes to know that just because she sees a dog doesn't mean she has to deal with it at all. I do let her meet other dogs. But they are ones I've screened before hand. And ones whose owners I know and trust to not 'flip out' if Risa gets scared and reacts. It is SO much easier to keep my cool if she reacts when I know both the owner and other dog will remain calm as well and realize it's no big deal.

JMHO.


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## BJDimock (Sep 14, 2008)

Nice advice Jaime!
Mr.Frodo







Risa!
Tasha and Risa did very well on this thought too!


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Hey all, thanks so very much for taking your time to offer some help here.









I am trying & doing this alone is a pain b/c you don't see/catch things your dog/other dogs/ or you are doing ! I do have a trainer local that I have asked & asked to help me with this issue & really feel it just isn't happening like I would like it to happen, as in allowing meet ups with other dogs, etc......

I'm lost as in how to find another trainer to help with this issue, don't like the idea of jumping from one to another to find that right one.









I want to learn how to correct it before it happens, why it's happening to some dogs & not others, etc !

I feel at this point I am on my own to try & solve this issue, but feel I need to know how to go about it better.









I do compete with him & for the most part, he has done good at trials. Hard part is, you just never know. I want to allow him to go see a dog b/c with some he acts curious, but afraid to let him b/c IF he decides to go off, I feel 1" high...............

I thank you all for the advice/info so far, has really helped alot.


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## debbiebrown (Apr 13, 2002)

why don't you go observe some trainers/classes to see how you like these people. nothing wrong with moving onto another trainer if its not working for you. 

i think trying to solve this problem alone is going to frustrate the heck out of you, you don't want to give your dog any negative energy which will come out trying to work this problem out alone.

do you have a local SchH club? sometimes you can get evals and training help there. all depends on what kind of club etc. i mostly prefer to work with these people since they are huge gsd people.

debbie


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: LuvourGSsGood book stores or places online (links) to find used or new ? Tried eBay & couldn't find on there.


http://www.amazon.com


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## Riley's Mom (Jun 7, 2007)

Riley was very reactive for a long time. Went through a TON of money and trainers, and he got some better. But we finally figured out the biggest trigger and that was me. I was not calm, not relaxed when walking him etc ... my bad vibes were travelling right down the leash. Once I started getting my own self straightened out, things started getting better. We can walk by just about any dog now and he pretty much doesn't react. He WILL react to defend himself if another dog lunges at him or jumps in his face. He still protects his house and his yard which we figure is territorial.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

> Originally Posted By: Riley's MomRiley was very reactive for a long time. Went through a TON of money and trainers, and he got some better. But we finally figured out the biggest trigger and that was me. I was not calm, not relaxed when walking him etc ... my bad vibes were travelling right down the leash. Once I started getting my own self straightened out, things started getting better. We can walk by just about any dog now and he pretty much doesn't react. He WILL react to defend himself if another dog lunges at him or jumps in his face. He still protects his house and his yard which we figure is territorial.


Yes, I know most was me feeding the lead throughout his life so far & I have tried to be more calm anymore. He has done this once w/o me holding the lead & not sure there ? I was right there though.

I just gets me it's certain dogs it seems to.

I feel alone, but determined to keep at it. I will buy the book control unleashed & hope that I can get him over this hump. Trainer wise, not sure ! I need to keep searching, I want one that will help me head on 1 on 1 with this issue & gonna be hard to fine IMO.









Anyone know OH wise............ we aren't too far from the Columbus/Newark/Granville/Canton areas. 

~Thanks~


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