# The fine line between animal hoarding



## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

I was watching Cesar Milan's new show today. I don't always agree with his methods, but do agree with some, and generally find it interesting to watch regardless of my opinion on him. On his show he has to find a home for a dog that comes from a shelter. He has three families to pick from. This one particular episode I was watching one of the fAmilies. There was ONE woman, with 4 dogs. Single woman. No man, no children, just her and her dogs. 

I was thinking, why does she need to take on. A 5th dog? Then throughout the show we get to learn more about each individual family's life. Turns out this woman lives by herself, has 4 dogs, 11 cats, 2 horses, and I'm not sure how many chickens. In my head I was thinking... This woman has issues. How does she do this all on her own? She has to split her energy and affection between all of these animals, wouldn't they be better suited in homes where they are the main focus? Than having to live in squalor and filfth, fighting for attention from this one woman?

I have a friend (personal story) who has 5 dogs. She travels for work. She is home on weekends. The other days she is flying in airplanes going to the next job site. It never ends. Her house smells, the dogs are not potty trained, the dogs are miserable, don't get what they need from her, pretty much spend their whole life in a cage, occasionally let out and fed by her "dog nanny". Why do some people feel the need to have sooo many animals? Unless your running a dairy farm or something. Is this animal hoarding? Is there something psychologically wrong with those people? Or is this simply an animal lover/ someone who rescues animals? Your opinions please.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

zOMGG!!! He freaking chose the darn animal hoarder!!! She now has 5 dogs, 11 cats, 2 horses, a barn of chickens, and a few more screws loose. Arghhh that's it! I'm boycotting the show! Hahah


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I am not one to judge and really since I have a huge pack, cats and fish I suppose someone like you _might_ think that of me. I usually don't get offended and I've learned to brush stuff off, but your post really is very judgemental as a whole. I am a single woman, I own my own home with land, and my house is always clean. All my dogs are well behaved and potty trained. They eat high quality food, get lots of exercise, and the best vet care when needed. I understand your watching a show, but in that 1/2 hour or even 1 hour you would never be able to get to know the person that you seem so disgusted by. If the house is a mess, is it because of the animals or is the person just a messy person? My sister doesn't have any animals and her house is just plain messy and awful, so what does that make her besides a slob?

I have pets, my dogs are not working dogs, but that doesn't mean I don't do stuff with each of them that they enjoy. I'm always looking for new things to try with them. I can take 3-4 dogs with me to events without issue. I take a couple at a time swimming or hiking, sometimes its just one at a time so that I can spend time with that dog. All my dogs have a favorite thing to do..Robyn loves agility and hiking, Midnite enjoys his therapy work, working on that dock diving and hiking, Tannor loves swimming and rally, Brennan is my all time rock star swimmer, but he loves going for walks, Batman is going to test out Barnhunts in the next couple weeks and maybe even lure coursing, Apollo is soley working on obedience, but loves going hiking(we work on obedience and he doesn't know it, shhhh) and Misty the senior goes with me everyday for a car ride to get coffee and that makes her happy.

I love nothing more then spending time with my dogs, whether its one on one or all together. I can spend hours watching them play and be happy.
I find it relaxing and after a long day they are wonderful stress relievers.

At the end of the day my dogs lack nothing. They get everything they need and really that is evident by how content they are. They don't destroy or chew stuff and they enjoy life, really enjoy life..they get to be dogs and they never have to worry about not having food, getting abused, or not having a comfy place to lay their heads at night...

So what you might see as animal hoarding for one person is not so for all and its not our place to judge. As long as the animal is being taken care of and obviously happy, they are where they belong. Obviously Cesar had an open mind and took everything into account before he made his choice, I think I like him more now


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

Well put Llombardo!! Cudo's to you, and, your house is lovely!

Now, Barbie, you are so judgemental, how can you look at yourself in the mirror.. Were you in the lady's house..did you smell anything..are any of her pets mistreated? So what, she is single, so what..none of your business! You know nothing of what she does, she may be a 'secret millionaire', who knows. 
She may have rescued the horses, saved the chickens from the fryer! Get off your pedestal! 

Now, you say you have a 'friend' who has 5 dogs who spend most of their times in cages not potty trained, house smells, she 
doesn't have time, works..works. Do something about that.

Sorry if I upset you, but sometimes you just have to step back, look at life from a different angle, be nice to people..not so condescending.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

We've had a recent string of people that think they're god's gift to dog ownership lately. Most of these people have never seen how other types of owners handle/raise dogs and have this belief that because they're better than the guy on the corner that chains his dog up all day, they must be the only ones doing it right. It's amazing really that a lot of the members havent caught on to the types of owners there are on this forum and still believe their way is the greatest way possible.

The fact that this lady has 2 horses, makes me think she probably owns a farm or has a decent amount of acreage. The more space you have, the easier it usually gets to handle a lot of animals. Cats...probably farm cats and not the house cats we usually think of when we grow up in the city. Dogs, much easier when you can just let them off lead everywhere you are around your property and not really worry about other people. If you have enough space, you don't really ever have to take your dogs anywhere to exercise or run in a large field. So a lot of the things those of us that live in cities do, people out in the middle of no where don't have to and so it gets easier having dogs.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have a friend who has a pack of no less than 9 Berners, Newfs, and Great Pyr's. She fosters, usually the hard medical cases, fosters rabbits, works full time at her regular job, part time as a bartender and owns a catering business. 

Her house is clean, her dogs are clean, well cared for and happy. The pack dynamics in her house is incredible to watch, especially when there is a puppy involved.

Just because one person would be considered a hoarder does not mean the next person can not handle it all with ease.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

I did not read all the response so excuse me if I am repeating. 

I volunteer for an Aussie rescue group. I used to foster but now I mainly do home inspections for potential adopters. A few years ago I was asked to inspect a house with a woman and her 4 dogs. She wanted to adopt a deaf aussie. Before going there I thought this is nuts. Why does she want another dog? So I went to the house with a preconceived notion and it was not a good one. I brought my daughter (then about 10) with me to the house visit figuring this would be a real test. Well those were the friendliest, happiest most well behaved dogs I have met. The woman worked 10 minutes away and came home at lunch each day. The dogs were her life. Much to my surprise I ended up approving her for another dog. I know I could not and would not want that many dogs but who am I to judge if the dogs are well cared for and happy?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Rangers_mom said:


> I did not read all the response so excuse me if I am repeating.
> 
> The woman worked 10 minutes away and came home at lunch each day. The dogs were her life.


 
I do this everyday at lunch. I bought my house based on distance from my job, so I can completely understand this person


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

llombardo said:


> I am not one to judge and really since I have a huge pack, cats and fish I suppose someone like you _might_ think that of me. I usually don't get offended and I've learned to brush stuff off, but your post really is very judgemental as a whole. I am a single woman, I own my own home with land, and my house is always clean. All my dogs are well behaved and potty trained. They eat high quality food, get lots of exercise, and the best vet care when needed. I understand your watching a show, but in that 1/2 hour or even 1 hour you would never be able to get to know the person that you seem so disgusted by. If the house is a mess, is it because of the animals or is the person just a messy person? My sister doesn't have any animals and her house is just plain messy and awful, so what does that make her besides a slob?
> 
> I have pets, my dogs are not working dogs, but that doesn't mean I don't do stuff with each of them that they enjoy. I'm always looking for new things to try with them. I can take 3-4 dogs with me to events without issue. I take a couple at a time swimming or hiking, sometimes its just one at a time so that I can spend time with that dog. All my dogs have a favorite thing to do..Robyn loves agility and hiking, Midnite enjoys his therapy work, working on that dock diving and hiking, Tannor loves swimming and rally, Brennan is my all time rock star swimmer, but he loves going for walks, Batman is going to test out Barnhunts in the next couple weeks and maybe even lure coursing, Apollo is soley working on obedience, but loves going hiking(we work on obedience and he doesn't know it, shhhh) and Misty the senior goes with me everyday for a car ride to get coffee and that makes her happy.
> 
> ...


I am so happy to read this post. If you read my post below you will know that I approved a woman who owned 4 dogs to adopt another. Reading your post made me even more confident that I made the right decision. And by the way, her house was spotlessly clean as well - much cleaner than my own, lol.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I have to say, I am a bit envious of some members in this forum who have a pack of dogs and have taken on the responsibility to care for them accordingly. Since llombardo replied to this thread, I will use her as a prime example...I could be wrong but I get a very strong sense that her pack is better taken care of and all of them have lives which is probably better than many households with one dog. My only critique of llombardo comes from one picture she posted of her crew lounging in the living room...I suggested she needs to get one more couch 

Anyway, my brother in law keeps pushing me to get another dog....he has 4 currently. I am resistant to the idea for one main reason...I don't want to shortchange the dogs and most likely never would....but...I have to be honest about my own shortcomings as I have to imagine it takes a real disciplined individual who will commit to the well being of multiple dogs...once again llombardo strikes me as a master of this discipline and responsibility. 

Barbie...for what it is worth...your question *"Why do some people feel the need to have sooo many animals? Unless your running a dairy farm or something. Is this animal hoarding? Is there something psychologically wrong with those people?....*" probably was destined to piss some people off in here...if that was your intent...you succeeded. However, I do believe if you look at members in here such as llombardo, you would have found the answers to your question without ever pissing some people off....Those who have numerous dogs and other animals such as llombardo, simply have a discipline, a mentality, a sharing, a caring, a way about life in general which most likely escapes you....


SuperG


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## Hineni7 (Nov 8, 2014)

Well stated SuperG!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words SuperG 

Just so you know I have 3 couches, one loveseat, two chairs and 4 dog beds they can lay on. They choose the two you seen because that is where I am


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Hmmm. In the past I've had 5 dogs and a cat at one time. Four Italian Greyhounds and one Doberman. Now I'm down to just the 3 GSDs. And the two show Siamese cats. It's a lot of work sometimes (when it's rainy - stupid mud), but most of the time it's pretty easy. As I'm sure llombardo knows very well, you just get a routine going.

If I didn't live in such a darn small house with a teeny yard, I'd get another GSD (there's a possible breeding that I'm going to be kicking myself that I can't have a puppy from). Oh and I would so love to have a Doberman again. 

Why have multiple dogs/animals? Why have multiple children? Why have any at all, lol?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> Why have multiple children? Why have any at all, lol?


I'm number 2 of 9 kids. We were always clean.


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I have a single friend who has 6 dogs- border collie/aussie/ACDs... He takes better care of his dogs than most people I know and also has the cleanest house I've ever seen. Lol.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

IMAGINE the temerity of this woman, living on her own, without a man (that's insane - how does she open jars!) with the animals she chooses to take in and care for. 

Take a look around at some of the papers Tuft's has written on hoarding. That will help to inform your judgments. Not having seen the show, interviewed her, etc, I can't form any kind of thought about her mental state, so it's possible she is, but it's also possible she isn't.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I have 3 dogs, 2 cats and 4 fish tanks. I am single, own my home. I foster, so sometimes I have 4 dogs. I am a horrible housekeeper. My house can often be a disaster area. But my animals are well taken care(except at the moment all my fish tanks need huge water changes), they get out, trained, hiked, loved, fed well. They get medical care when needed. 

It's not our place to judge others and how they live. 

I have done home visits to homes that were not immaculate. I don't care. I actually tell people not to put on a show for me. I don't care if you have dirty dishes on the sink, hair on the couch, dust bunnies under the tables and papers and bills piled on your dining room table. I care that you provide a loving and happy home for the dog you want to adopt. 

If I had land, I would have more dogs. I live in a townhome, so my limit is 3 permanent dogs. But I know people with the same amount if space that have more dogs. Again. I don't care. 

There is a huge difference between having lots of pets and being a hoarder. Hoarding is a mental illness and often the animals are not well cared for.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Yeah,it really depends on the individual.For me,three dogs is ideal.I had four for about a year and it was too much for me.
I have a niece who is an animal hoarder,with ten pit bulls and twenty some cats.She provides them food and shelter but they are basically just "warehoused" with very little human interaction except for one dog and a couple of cats she keeps inside.She claims she's running a "rescue" but to me it's more like a prison.Her immediate family enables her and I can't convince them to help her get counselling.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I'd say her being single with no children is an added bonus, not something negative like you claim. Instead of needing to give her spouse attention and then having to take care of children, she gets to focus ALL of her love, money, and passion on her animals. 

And beyond your friend being single, the situation isn't the same at all. She wouldn't be able to care for even one dog if no one is home 5 days a week.

A person in the province next to mine just had 201 dogs seized by the spca. Many kept on chains with no shelter. Emaciated, missing limbs, wounded, and some dead. *That* is hoarding.


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I am not one to judge and really since I have a huge pack, cats and fish I suppose someone like you _might_ think that of me. I usually don't get offended and I've learned to brush stuff off, but your post really is very judgemental as a whole. I am a single woman, I own my own home with land, and my house is always clean. All my dogs are well behaved and potty trained. They eat high quality food, get lots of exercise, and the best vet care when needed. I understand your watching a show, but in that 1/2 hour or even 1 hour you would never be able to get to know the person that you seem so disgusted by. If the house is a mess, is it because of the animals or is the person just a messy person? My sister doesn't have any animals and her house is just plain messy and awful, so what does that make her besides a slob?
> 
> I have pets, my dogs are not working dogs, but that doesn't mean I don't do stuff with each of them that they enjoy. I'm always looking for new things to try with them. I can take 3-4 dogs with me to events without issue. I take a couple at a time swimming or hiking, sometimes its just one at a time so that I can spend time with that dog. All my dogs have a favorite thing to do..Robyn loves agility and hiking, Midnite enjoys his therapy work, working on that dock diving and hiking, Tannor loves swimming and rally, Brennan is my all time rock star swimmer, but he loves going for walks, Batman is going to test out Barnhunts in the next couple weeks and maybe even lure coursing, Apollo is soley working on obedience, but loves going hiking(we work on obedience and he doesn't know it, shhhh) and Misty the senior goes with me everyday for a car ride to get coffee and that makes her happy.
> 
> ...


Thank you for responding I have four dogs: 2 chihuahuas, a min pin, and my GSD who is one year old on Tuesday. One cat. One parrot. I am single, own my own home with fencing in front and back, I work 7 minutes from home, and my animals are my life.

Like many of you I don't take vacations unless I take the dogs. My vet knows how much I value my "family" and will fit me in after hours or go the extra mile on testing to be sure of diagnosis.

One of my best friends is not an animal lover. She comments often how clean my house is and how it never smells like animals.

I think it is an individual case by case issue. Thanks, llombardo.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Debanneball said:


> Well put Llombardo!! Cudo's to you, and, your house is lovely!
> 
> Now, Barbie, you are so judgemental, how can you look at yourself in the mirror.. Were you in the lady's house..did you smell anything..are any of her pets mistreated? So what, she is single, so what..none of your business! You know nothing of what she does, she may be a 'secret millionaire', who knows.
> She may have rescued the horses, saved the chickens from the fryer! Get off your pedestal!
> ...


The lady said you should never walk barefoot in her home, you never know what you might step in... I think that shows the house is dirty. As far as my friend with the 5 dogs, house is dirty too. Llombardo, this is exactly why I needed people's opinions. Thank you for sharing with us.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Looking through my own narrow perspective, besides the obvious about not being able to take care of them, I look at the things I enjoy about, and what i want to do with my dogs and its impossible with too many dogs. What is too many, I guess depends on the person.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Okay people, thank you for all your responses.mi have heard that that lady, possibly has nothing wrong with her, and you all have multiple animals you can take care of fine, and do well with. In that case... What DOES define animal hoarding? Is there a number of animals you have before it gets out of control? Is it situational? Dependent on condition of the house? What makes a hoarder? Of animals that is...


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I'm number 2 of 9 kids. We were always clean.


I only have one sibling, and wish I had more. My son is an only child and I wish it had worked out differently, and that he could've had siblings.  

I used to have a friend years ago that was a hoarder. She got her animals taken away from her on two different occasions. It was pretty sad. She had a good heart and was well meaning, but just didn't know when to stop. 

As far as having a bunch of animals and cleanliness goes, well, my living room is calling me right now. It's raining and I have a dog door, and you get the picture...


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Well the animal hoarding shows I've seen are people that have 20+ dogs/cats and are poorly taken care of.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

It completely depends on the individual. Like others have said, there are people that own one pet and can't care for it properly. I have always had many animals, I couldn't imagine life any other way. Currently I own five large dogs, four cats, two boa constrictors, a small fish tank and three goats. For many years I was single living in a one bedroom basement apartment (picked for the animals, my bedroom was a postage stamp but the livingroom/dining room was open concept) with four large dogs, five cats, a bunch of pet rats and my big snake. It was snug but cozy and we were all happy. 

It really doesn't matter how many animals you have, what matters is your mentality. Every animal I have ever owned has been cared for in the best way that is appropriate for that species. I happen to believe that my dogs have it pretty **** good and I don't see any way in which they could be 'suffering'. 

I think many one dog homes feel they are the best thing ever but still they miss out on the basics of dog care. I work pet retail and it saddens me the amount of dogs that can't be handled for regular care. My dogs are perfectly fine to trim nails/clean ears/medicate/pull ticks from etc... I can put boots on them, they behave at the vets, they are safe to be in public with no worries about what is going on around them. 

Ones dog may be spoiled, eat the best food, have their special spot on the couch, have a fancy food bowl. But so many of them can't be handled, can't be walked without freaking on people/dogs going by. And these same owners think I am cruel to own so many dogs, and that I expect them to behave, and that I do competitive obedience with them. How dare I expect my dog to do something. They don't get that the dogs love it! I may own a lot of dogs but they are all very well adjusted, happy dogs that enjoy their lives and don't have much of a care in the world. They love going to training class, to trials, for runs in the woods, to visit their dog friends. They love to relax at home while we watch a movie. Right now they are all asleep at my feet with the pit bull sleeping in her $100 bowser bed wearing her $50 hand knit moosie sweater complete with antlers. Because you know, she has such little hair and it's so cold lol.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> Okay people, thank you for all your responses.mi have heard that that lady, possibly has nothing wrong with her, and you all have multiple animals you can take care of fine, and do well with. In that case... What DOES define animal hoarding? Is there a number of animals you have before it gets out of control? Is it situational? Dependent on condition of the house? What makes a hoarder? Of animals that is...


Again, google Tuft's hoarding papers and get a ton of information on it that has been researched and looked at by experts. I can't imagine that anyone can offer more comprehensive informed replies than what you will find there.

ETA-then people can have conversation on good, solid information instead of feelings and incorrect suppositions.


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

What I find to be a common mentality of true hoarders is the belief that they are saving the animals and no one else could possibly care for them better than the hoarder does. Many times it starts with 'rescued' animals and the hoarder keeps taking in more, but none ever get to leave. Or they start with a few animals, those animals breed, whole litters stay, more dogs get added and you end up with a whole lot of animals and a whole lot of mess. 
I know of situations where there are only a few animals but I would still consider them hoarders.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

From what I am seeing it sounds as... It's irrelevant the # of animals to a certain extent yes?

You could have one dog, and live filfthy and dog be not taken care of

You CAN have one dog, clean house, dog well trained and taken care of yes?

You can have many animals like 10+ and house be clean! animals taken care of

You can have many animals 10+ and house be dirty! animals not getting needs met. 

So really anything goes? Just depends on the person? But for the person who said mentality matters, I actually disagree. Animal hoarders, DO believe they are rescuing the animals and think that they are helping them and caring for them. Animal hoarders have good intentions. Therefore, I don't think mentality matters. Animal hoarding should be based off of something else. Perhaps at what point they get enough animals that they can no longer care for the house or animals as they should be cared for. A true animal hoarder I believe would of course never admit that they have gotten past this point. Animal hoarders in my experience sometimes don't even realize how dirty the house is, or how poorly animals are taken care of. They believe their animals have the best life, or their house is okay, just needs to be cleaned. My friend for ex: thinks her dogs are better off with her than someone else. I don't see how kenneling 5 dogs in a house with no central air for 5 days at a time for their whole lives is better than them being with someone else.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

My philosophy about a clean house whether it's kids or dogs is that the cleaning can wait. My house stays pretty clean but if I had to choose between washing dishes or dusting versus spending the day outside in good weather with said kids or dogs the cleaning can wait...the dishes and dust aren't going anywhere. 

So here is something real crazy...

I've been up since 3am for work, but, there is always a but..the rescue I am connected with had posted a dog that caught my attention, enough so I inquired but he was adopted. Then life happened and I found Apollo. Fast forward to two days ago and I see him posted again but as needing a surgery to save his leg. I was bothered by this and inquired about him again. After several vet visits they determined surgery wasn't needed but he would always be lame and require glucosamine forever. I also found out that he was adopted out and returned twice because of this. Needless to say here is George Jones(they named him), he is from down south and was most likely hit by a car and not taken care of. He has a real good disposition, enough that the high kill shelter reached out on his behalf...I don't know what his future holds but he is safe as of now. 

I already explained to my pack he was coming, not sure if they understood

So here is the foster dog...

And no I'm not crazy, really I'm not. I just truly love dogs...


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

llombardo said:


> My philosophy about a clean house whether it's kids or dogs is that the cleaning can wait. My house stays pretty clean but if I had to choose between washing dishes or dusting versus spending the day outside in good weather with said kids or dogs the cleaning can wait...the dishes and dust aren't going anywhere.
> 
> So here is something real crazy...
> 
> ...


He is cute llombardo. You do have a lot of dogs already but seen as how people don't want him... I guess you could bring him home haha! Hopefully your dogs will accept him with no problem. 

As far as the cleaning, I just realized after reading what you posted that this is probably my source of where I differ. For me a clean house is king. I loved Sailor with all my heart, but would clean up after him like it was my last day on earth. I feel like if my house isn't clean, something is wrong, I can't relax, I can't go out, house needs to be clean,a THEN I can go out and do whatever I need to. This is probably why I will be a one dog household for a long time. It runs in the family. Mom is a neat freak, dad is a neat freak, grandmothers too. Grandfather was a perfectionist , all his drawers where organized and alphabetical, everything was done perfectly. This is probably why I am the way I am. Haha it's okay though, I love a clean house and wouldn't have it any other way. This is why I asked u a while back what vacuum you use to manage the pack of dogs you haven whatever vacuum works for 7+ dogs would definitely work for my one dog haha!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

With that being said, I need to go clean my house before Captain comes today!!


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## Kahrg4 (Dec 19, 2012)

llombardo said:


> My philosophy about a clean house whether it's kids or dogs is that the cleaning can wait. My house stays pretty clean but if I had to choose between washing dishes or dusting versus spending the day outside in good weather with said kids or dogs the cleaning can wait...the dishes and dust aren't going anywhere.
> 
> So here is something real crazy...
> 
> ...


 LOL!!! Lombardo, God bless you! You might have to talk to the mods though about upping the allowable character count in the signature line if you keep going at this rate.  Good on you for taking him in. I'm sure the pups on your street all think yours is the fun house.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> . I was thinking, why does she need to take on. A 5th dog? Then throughout the show we get to learn more about each individual family's life. Turns out this woman lives by herself, has 4 dogs, 11 cats, 2 horses, and I'm not sure how many chickens. In my head I was thinking... This woman has issues. How does she do this all on her own? She has to split her energy and affection between all of these animals, wouldn't they be better suited in homes where they are the main focus? Than having to live in squalor and filfth, fighting for attention from this one woman?
> 
> 
> > That's rude, and presumptuous. I have two dogs, will be adding a third. My house may get untidy but I would hardly call it filthy, and my dogs are well loved. I used to foster, mostly pups and behavioral issues. Sometimes I had 6-8 dogs, in a small house. Sometimes I had to work and time was short, but we played and cuddled and spent what time we could. My dogs are better treated and loved then half of the children I have met.
> ...


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Phase one...going good


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)




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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The whole crew...


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Llombardo!

You live in a dog park. Lol. I love it, I wanna be you.


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## peppsmom (Oct 4, 2014)

There are so many factors to define hoarding. It depends on space too. I mean a person with 10 dogs in a tiny one bedroom apartment is certainly different a person with 10 dogs on a huge piece of property!

In the end, hoarding is a mental disorder. Loving and caring for pets is not! Someone who is compulsively collecting animals <i> beyond their means </i> is guilty of hoarding. I don't believe there is a "limit" if their care is within your means and happening properly.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sabis mom said:


> Llombardo!
> 
> You live in a dog park. Lol. I love it, I wanna be you.


I've decided that I love being me and I wouldn't change a thing


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

llombardo said:


> I've decided that I love being me and I wouldn't change a thing


Don't change! You have a huge heart, and a wonderful pack! Congratulations on your new addition/foster!

PS, as SuperG said.. Maybe you need another couch...


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have 5 siblings. When we were growing up, it was common to have 2-3 kids. 6 was a large family, and people with one or two, or no kids would comment on how awful it was, because the parents have to split themselves between so many. 

I wouldn't have it any other way. I expect many families that are larger or smaller feel the same way about how they were raised. And some actually were in situations where the parents were overwhelmed, regardless to how many kids they had. 

I think it is true of dogs too. Some people shouldn't own 1. Sorry. They haven't a clue how to read them, how to love them, how to be responsible for them, and the dog always suffer. Some people do have too many critters, and are hoarders. I think that you have to look at the behavior and health and physical condition of the critters in question, and possibly the state of their environment as well. Just because dogs are kept outdoors, or are crated part of the day does not make a hoarder or an evil owner. But, if there are dead critters decaying in the house, if no one is cleaning urine and fecies, then there is a serious problem.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

dogfaeries said:


> As far as having a bunch of animals and cleanliness goes, well, my living room is calling me right now. It's raining and I have a dog door, and you get the picture...


I said the **** with my living room and went to a handling lesson.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

The dogs have been outside most of the day, well running in and out and I've mopped several times, I'm done. I will mop later when they are done running in and out. Right now they are all passed out and I'm going to just relax. I love that all 8 are sleeping


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Are many of your dogs close in age llombardo? You've probably mentioned it, I just don't remember. I know a couple times we've had dogs very close in age, which meant they got old at the same time, and in something similar to two puppies doubling the work, two older dogs led to double the bills and losing them both close together. I'm not leading this anywhere, but it is something I always think about as far as the ages of my dogs.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Steve Strom said:


> Are many of your dogs close in age llombardo? You've probably mentioned it, I just don't remember. I know a couple times we've had dogs very close in age, which meant they got old at the same time, and in something similar to two puppies doubling the work, two older dogs led to double the bills and losing them both close together. I'm not leading this anywhere, but it is something I always think about as far as the ages of my dogs.


I'm in for a world of heart ache with mine and I know it. That is why the time I spend with them is so precious. They are my world and even though they don't live long enough I am determine to enjoy them to the fullest and make as many memories as possible. They are my life. Each one has a piece of my heart:wub:


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

OMG...he is so beautiful. I truly admire how you do what you do. When do you sleep?

He looks like a dog an acquaintance had/has...Mix of few breeds but adorable and gorgeous. He had all shades of grey and beige patches, blue eyes. His name was Smudge. 
I don't think this guy suits George...IMO...you should change it to Smudge...pleeease




llombardo said:


> My philosophy about a clean house whether it's kids or dogs is that the cleaning can wait. My house stays pretty clean but if I had to choose between washing dishes or dusting versus spending the day outside in good weather with said kids or dogs the cleaning can wait...the dishes and dust aren't going anywhere.
> 
> So here is something real crazy...
> 
> ...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree it certainly depends on the person (family) who could be a hoarder or not 

At one point I had 4 gsd's , an aussie, and was adopting one from ARPH, I was approved They all live(d) in my house, got on furniture, slept in my bed, sure I cleaned alot, but I wouldn't trade those days for anything. I also had 3 BIG birds, and 4 cats at the time (indoor cats)..

Now, my house is a little quieter and life isn't as hectic with two dogs, 3 cats, and 17 chickens..I miss those days of having a housefull


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GatorBytes said:


> OMG...he is so beautiful. I truly admire how you do what you do. When do you sleep?
> 
> He looks like a dog an acquaintance had/has...Mix of few breeds but adorable and gorgeous. He had all shades of grey and beige patches, blue eyes. His name was Smudge.
> I don't think this guy suits George...IMO...you should change it to Smudge...pleeease


George is the name of an ex boyfriend, so that has to go. I think he looks like a Hunter. I like the name Hunter.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

llombardo said:


> George is the name of an ex boyfriend, so that has to go. I think he looks like a Hunter. I like the name Hunter.


  sigh.

I can't have another dog. G won't have it. So I have to live vicariously through others.

Try saying here Smudgy
come Smudgy...sit Smudgy

Ohhh kayyy.
At least run it past your son


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GatorBytes said:


> sigh.
> 
> I can't have another dog. G won't have it. So I have to live vicariously through others.
> 
> ...


My son has no clue about this one...surprise that's what he gets for going away to college and not calling very often because he is busy. He is still stuck on Batman finding a home, that was 2 dogs ago We've had a cat for several years now that he thinks will eventually find a home. I just let him keep thinking...

And
Bribing him with two tickets to a three day concert with a stay at a nice hotel will help...


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

This is an interesting topic for me. I tend to do some things to excess- I raised 6 kids (4 adopted and 2 by birth). We have had 5 cats, 9 dogs, 5 tropical fish tanks, and 3 tortoises at one point. We now have one cat, no fish tanks, 7 dogs, and the 3 tortoises. Several of our dogs are elderly and close in age, so we know that a world of hurt awaits us! We do not intend to replace the dogs as they pass away. I will probably rehome my tortoises shortly, although I hate to give them up. We are nearing retirement, and realized that we would be better off with less pets. Ultimately, we will just have the 7 dogs (4 of which are age 10 and over  unfortunately). I recently lost my sweet heart dog, a Chinese Crested, so I MAY get another from my breeder. My pets have always been loved, well vetted, fed premium foods, the whole 9 yards. I think the distinction between an animal lover and a hoarder is that the hoarder claims to love animals, but their animals are frequently ill, suffering with no vet care, and when watching the tv shows about animal hoarders, there are dead animals found in the homes.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> I said the **** with my living room and went to a handling lesson.


I said the same thing, and went to the training center to a handling class too. Didn't bring a dog. Instead I took a friend's dachshund around the ring, after putting her on the table. I've never shown a little dog, so the table scared the crap out of me, LOL. I still haven't cleaned the living room.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

maxtmill said:


> This is an interesting topic for me. I tend to do some things to excess- I raised 6 kids (4 adopted and 2 by birth). We have had 5 cats, 9 dogs, 5 tropical fish tanks, and 3 tortoises at one point. We now have one cat, no fish tanks, 7 dogs, and the 3 tortoises. Several of our dogs are elderly and close in age, so we know that a world of hurt awaits us! We do not intend to replace the dogs as they pass away. I will probably rehome my tortoises shortly, although I hate to give them up. We are nearing retirement, and realized that we would be better off with less pets. Ultimately, we will just have the 7 dogs (4 of which are age 10 and over  unfortunately). I recently lost my sweet heart dog, a Chinese Crested, so I MAY get another from my breeder. My pets have always been loved, well vetted, fed premium foods, the whole 9 yards. I think the distinction between an animal lover and a hoarder is that the hoarder claims to love animals, but their animals are frequently ill, suffering with no vet care, and when watching the tv shows about animal hoarders, there are dead animals found in the homes.



Great answer..you've had herds of everything and all because of your choosing....

I will say..your opening sentences could be lyrics for the song 12 Days of Christmas


SuperG


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

SuperG said:


> Great answer..you've had herds of everything and all because of your choosing....
> 
> I will say..your opening sentences could be lyrics for the song 12 Days of Christmas
> 
> ...


Haha! Yes, we have had all kinds of pets, and have enjoyed every minute! If I had not been a nurse, I would have been a veterinarian!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I feel like an animal hoarder with 4 cats and 2 dogs. 

My dogs do not overwhelm me, I could easily care for 3 or 4 large dogs by myself. I love my dogs, they are well behaved, non destructive and living with them is wonderful and easy.

My cats overwhelm me, I will never again get another cat. When these 4 are gone THAT IS IT! My cats are destructive, they scratch paint off the walls, they scratch my base boards, my furniture, they knock stuff off the counters and break them, they chew on everything. I am trying to buy a bigger and better house this year and I am trying to think of where I can keep these cats in an area where they can't get out because I am tired of having my things destroyed and I want to live in a nice house.

In the future, I will never again have more than 4 animals (only 4 dogs and no other animals.)

I personally think that 1 person taking on more than 5 dogs is questionable. I don't know how 1 person could give enough attention to more than 5 dogs. I also have to wonder about people with more than 5 cats, I clean my litterbox daily, I have Glade plug-ins everywhere in my house and people that do not have cats can tell that I have cats when they walk into my house, now my house is only 720 sq feet so that could be the reason why but I just can't imagine having more than 5 cats.

I don't think of "farm folks" as being hoarders, they have more land, usually cats are outside cats, the dogs usually work or get lots of energy, horses usually work or people ride them, chickens lay eggs for the farmers, etc. 

But when I hear about people that have more than 5 dogs and 10 cats, rabbits, ferrets, hamsters, etc. I do think "animal hoarder."

I forgot to mention that I have a hard time keeping my 720 sq foot house clean with my 6 animals and I clean every day. So I don't believe you people with 4+ dogs keep your homes spotless.


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## Pawsed (May 24, 2014)

llombardo, how about naming your newest Camo? It even fits with the Hunter theme.

I admire your ability to care for so many. I would love to add more dogs, but at this point I think we have as many as we need and can handle. Best of luck with the new addition and I hope he's really not going to be lame for his entire life.


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Pawsed said:


> llombardo, how about naming your newest Camo? It even fits with the Hunter theme.
> 
> I admire your ability to care for so many. I would love to add more dogs, but at this point I think we have as many as we need and can handle. Best of luck with the new addition and I hope he's really not going to be lame for his entire life.


Oooo that is such a good name. LLombardo u should!


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

Thank you, *sigh* I knew I wasn't the only one who thought this. It can be done, just how lolmbardo does it with her pack, I'm sure she does a good job... But there is no denying it is a lot of work and takes a special person. Most people it would be too much for them. That's all I can say.



LaRen616 said:


> I feel like an animal hoarder with 4 cats and 2 dogs.
> 
> My dogs do not overwhelm me, I could easily care for 3 or 4 large dogs by myself. I love my dogs, they are well behaved, non destructive and living with them is wonderful and easy.
> 
> ...


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

I think hoarding is like any other addiction and identifying one as a hoarder would follow the same basic rules for identifying any addict. 

A clean home is such a subjective thing. Everyone thinks their house is clean and someone else is thinking, I wouldn't take a cup of boiling water if offered unless I brought my own cup and water and kettle.  My hat is off to anyone who does it successfully. I know for us, there's always something being remodeled or redone, by the time I work 8 hours, drive 2 commuting, dd, two dogs, a cat, and a fish, good night! Add in the fact I work on average a couple hours a night from home, dd has ballet and swimming and music, dh, he might be home... I can't do it to the point that I feel my home is clean and organized, like I once did. 

However, when it's been a few days since I last saw dh, a guaranteed way to get him home is to steam mop the floors, guaranteed before the last tile is mopped he'll walk through the door. Men and children have the uncanny knack of coming in as soon as the house is half-way decent.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I do agree about the cats. They are way more work then the dogs, they get into everything. I will not be getting any more cats. Having the cat room is a huge help. The cats pretty much stay upstairs and the dogs downstairs. My house is about 2500 sq ft and I have a little more then a 1/2 acre fenced. If I need more running room for the dogs my neighbor has given me an open invitation to use his land as my dogs dog park and they love it. It is also true that with more land exercising is easier, they run and play hard. I have a whole agility course, right down to the A-frame, teeter and tunnels. When I get home the door is open and they go in and out for hours weather permitting. In the summer we have pools and sprinklers set up too. I did buy the house with animals in mind. No stairs for when they get older to go outside and thousands of dollars on a secure fence with locks. The leather couches are a dream to keep clean. Is my house spotless? No, but it's clean and acceptable to have visitors and for them not to have a clue how many animals are here.

We are in a midst of a blizzard and I was so excited, couldn't wait for them to play. They have been outside for like three hours going non-stop. Now they sleep until the next round....


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

I stopped reading after page 1.

"Turns out this woman lives by herself, has 4 dogs, 11 cats, 2 horses, and I'm not sure how many chickens. In my head I was thinking... This woman has issues. How does she do this all on her own? She has to split her energy and affection between all of these animals, wouldn't they be better suited in homes where they are the main focus? Than having to live in squalor and filfth, fighting for attention from this one woman?"

So we all need to have a SO messing up our lives? Because I live alone and have animals they must be living in squalor and filth and fight for attention??? 

Don't dump your choices on those of us who choose differently.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

LaRen616 said:


> I feel like an animal hoarder with 4 cats and 2 dogs.
> 
> My dogs do not overwhelm me, I could easily care for 3 or 4 large dogs by myself. I love my dogs, they are well behaved, non destructive and living with them is wonderful and easy.
> 
> ...


Cats are worse than dogs, and when my indoor cat died, I chose not to have another indoor cat. They bother my asthma. I took out all the carpets, and put new flooring in, with carpet only in my living room. No more cat. Haven't had to take asthma meds since. 

My house is not spotless. I hate cleaning. I have cob webs, and since my hands are terrible with cracks and bleeding, I find that doing dishes daily isn't my friend. So you will generally find some dirty dishes on the counter and stove in my kitchen. You will also find hair -- dog hair. It is part of the package, and while you can groom them when they start to blow their coat and brush them regular, there will still be hair. 

There is no urine or fecies left in my home. My older dogs are house trained, puppies are kept clean and learn that outside is where to go, early on. It is not hard. I keep them on papers in a small area, until I can put them outside on cedar chips. After a short period (weather permitting), I bring them back in, after putting cedar chips in the outside part of the puppy area. They automatically figure it out that is the right place to potty. And they take themselves out there without me EVER saying eh-eh outside to pee pee. I am talking puppies. If you limit access to the doggy door, you have to watch for their attempts to get there else, they will pee on your rug. 

If that happens it gets cleaned immediately with enzymes. 

Perfect is in heaven. People can have a group of dogs without being hoarders. Not spending a fortune on each, and taking each one everywhere with you does not make you a hoarder. Not running them to the vet every time they sniffle or break a toenail does not make you a hoarder. Many of us can treat an ear infection or diahrrea or make a decision about whether to take a gimp in and when, without being hoarders. Lots of people with just one or two dogs never take them to training classes or shows, or take your dog to work day, or to the church to be blessed, or to PetsMart -- they are not hoarders. 

A hoarder learns to ignore suffering, disgusting filth, and even the death of their animals, while acquiring more and more. They are like an anorexic who thinks they are fat even when they are nothing but bones and skin. They see themselves as helping dogs, and loving dogs or cats or animals in general while their critters are suffering. I truly think that some of them do not take them in for care because of money or comments, or fear of people making inquiries, maybe it starts that way, but I think as it progresses, they just fail to see anything going on with them, wounds, emaciation, and finally death. How can you let an animal decay where you are living. 

Everyone who does not provide the kind of care we expect people to give critters on this site does not mean they are sick or breaking any laws. Yes, maybe a dog of theirs would be better off in a home where it can be the center of attention, and shelters maybe should take it into consideration before adopting pets out to people with multiple pets. But while there are dogs being put down in shelters for no other reason than not enough homes, dogs should not be removed from people who are providing care, shelter, and food regardless to how many they currently own. Those dogs being put down daily can go to those homes and be the center of attention.

Not all hoarders start by allowing their critters to reproduce. Some of them do. Some of them start by rescuing, just one more, just one more, no one will give this one the care, they will put her down, no one can take care of this one but me. And then if they suffer a personal loss they can transfer needs to their critters that they should meet by having meaningful relationships with friends, family, work maybe a church, etc. When people type here that they have no friends, that their dogs fill that gap, it makes me sad and worried. I think those people are most at risk of becoming one of these people.

Hoarding is a serious mental condition, and the people are to be pitied, whether they hoard things or critters. But if they hoard critters or have children, hoarding also becomes a danger to the dependents. And something has to be done. I don't have the answers though. It is not a job I would want to go into a hoarder's home and try to convince them to give some up, or to take them from them through legal means. I think that while we can have compassion and respect for the individual, we can't ignore suffering. 

Suffering is not dogs not getting as much training or attention as your dog gets, that is too subjective. A dog sharing the attention with a group of 5 or 10 is still better off than being euthanized because there isn't space in the shelter, so long as the owner is providing basic care and not shutting them up in a home full of excrement. There are things worse than death.


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## misslesleedavis1 (Dec 5, 2013)

If she can afford it, and likely she can ( I assume she was checked out thoroughly by the shows producers as a potential adopter would) then I would assume that she likes animals and likes to rescue. Good on her.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

When I was into breeding parrots, I know I was thought to be a hoarder. I had several cages, breeding pairs were in individual flight cages, and we were in the midst of selling our home. It was more than the 'normal' people would ever see, but if you breed parrots, having multiple cages/flights it was the norm. 
I downsized after moving, there was such a huge responsibility to find good homes for birds who live much longer lifespans than a cat or dog. 
Bird breeding consumed my life, constant 24/7 care for all the birds, handfeeding chicks. I loved it, but knew I was getting over my head...and if something happened to me, the care was left to my husband, which he didn't want. I now have two parrots. I miss having multiple types of birds, but I never want to get into the amount I had previously.
I was clean, the birds were healthy and I had no problem rehoming them as long as the home was on par with my standards. So I wasn't a hoarder, just someone that had more than the normal amount of birds...and at that time, I had 2 dogs, 2 cats and a 75gallon fish tank. Oh, and a human infant! He's the reason I decided to downsize on the birds.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

BARBIElovesSAILOR said:


> He is cute llombardo. You do have a lot of dogs already but seen as how people don't want him... I guess you could bring him home haha! Hopefully your dogs will accept him with no problem.
> 
> As far as the cleaning, I just realized after reading what you posted that this is probably my source of where I differ. For me a clean house is king. I loved Sailor with all my heart, but would clean up after him like it was my last day on earth. I feel like if my house isn't clean, something is wrong, I can't relax, I can't go out, house needs to be clean,a THEN I can go out and do whatever I need to. This is probably why I will be a one dog household for a long time. It runs in the family. Mom is a neat freak, dad is a neat freak, grandmothers too. Grandfather was a perfectionist , all his drawers where organized and alphabetical, everything was done perfectly. This is probably why I am the way I am. Haha it's okay though, I love a clean house and wouldn't have it any other way. This is why I asked u a while back what vacuum you use to manage the pack of dogs you haven whatever vacuum works for 7+ dogs would definitely work for my one dog haha!


Can you come to my house? Haha!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I haven't read most of the responses, but I don't think the line is all that fine. It doesn't really have to do with numbers, although many hoarders will have animals in the dozens. A hoarder will make excuses and justify things like having piles of feces and pools of urine inside their home or finding half dead or even deceased animals in their home that they will admit they didn't realize were sick because they haven't seen the animal in over a week. Hoarders often have mental or emotional issues and tend to project their emotional baggage onto their animal or possessions ("I HAVE to have 500 pet rats because they all need me and will die of loneliness if they have to live with someone else!"). 

You can have too many animals and not be a hoarder. Everyone has their own financial, physical, and emotional limits. I can't handle more than 3-4 dogs but I know people that have ten dogs and they are all happy, healthy dogs that are training and competing (typically these people have jobs that revolve around dogs).


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## Blondi's Revenge (Jan 31, 2015)

I have 2 cats, 2 dogs and a bird


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## BARBIElovesSAILOR (Aug 11, 2014)

maxtmill said:


> Can you come to my house? Haha!




Haha !!


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