# Can anyone tell me...



## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Can anyone tell me what lines Piper might be? I'm not sure because I got her from a farmer but he told me that her dad who was a beautiful yet dirty long haired blk/red from Europe and I am not sure where her mom came from, but she was a almost faded looking pattern sable. But from her looks alone can anyone take some guesses? She's just over 11 months now and last time I weighed her she was 73lbs. That was just over month ago. Also how does she look in general? Is there anything about her you don't like in a shepherd and why? She's extremely laid back and I love it. She will play ball with you but never for very long before she gets bored of it. She lives to cuddle and go on long walks and looooves chasing my bfs quad around too.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

she's very pretty I can tell you that


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

there were supposed to be a few more pics. Please let me know if i need better pictures. I have a lot more in my albums too of her at all stages


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

My guess is that mom is a working/show line mix - seems that this mix often produces the faded patterned sable. And looking at these pictures of Piper, I see German Show lines in his coat fluffiness, heavy bone, dark red color, distinct saddle pattern, and working line in the longer limbs, the sable patterned saddle, and the intensity in his eyes and expression. 

But just a guess.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

She is a pretty girl. I agree probably a working/show line mix in there. You have a beautiful girl either way.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

she's definitely from the "I'm The Extremely Good Looking Line
And You're Not". is that wooded area near your house?


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## Ponypip123 (Apr 2, 2010)

If you get tired of her, send her to me! I love her looks!!! and her expression is so sweet...


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

She's beautiful! Did you get her at 8 weeks? THose pictures will help us tell you if she's sable.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> She's beautiful! Did you get her at 8 weeks? THose pictures will help us tell you if she's sable.


I got her at almost 12 weeks. I know for a fact shes a sable, her coat colour has changed since she was a pup. It wasn't a question of wondering if she was a sable or not that much I know. I was just curious as to what her lines might be.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Piper'sgrl said:


> I got her at almost 12 weeks. I know for a fact shes a sable, her coat colour has changed since she was a pup. It wasn't a question of wondering if she was a sable or not that much I know. I was just curious as to what her lines might be.


I'm thinking it's German working lines. There any chance you can get any paperwork on either parent dog? Cool to see and check out on pedigreedatabase.com


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I'd guess a mix of lines. Beautiful red pigment might come from German show lines, and sable could be from working lines or just random-bred mixed lines. She's very pretty. Did she have a litter recently?


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> I'm thinking it's German working lines. There any chance you can get any paperwork on either parent dog? Cool to see and check out on pedigreedatabase.com


I don't think either parent was papered


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Freestep said:


> I'd guess a mix of lines. Beautiful red pigment might come from German show lines, and sable could be from working lines or just random-bred mixed lines. She's very pretty. Did she have a litter recently?


Thanks for your input. And yes she did just have one. Her pups are 13 days old today and just starting to open their eyes


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> she's definitely from the "I'm The Extremely Good Looking Line
> And You're Not". is that wooded area near your house?


Thank you haha..yes my bf and I live on a large country property although most its farmed we do have a good area of woods and a river that runs through our property which is great in the summer the dogs love to go swimming. Here are a few more pics of Piper that I would like to add. 

The first one is one I got of her yesterday. jumping to catch a ball, which when I took the pic the ball was already in her mouth but you can see if it you look close. The 2nd pic is just a nice one of her sitting. 

Also ill add the only 4 pics I got of Piper's parents. The 3rd pic is her mom then 3-5 is her daddy and the last pic is of both of them just forget about the dog in the middle lol. I am happy that Piper seems to look more like her daddy then her momma.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

anyone else have any opinions?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

She's similar to my girl. Her coat is just a bit longer. My girl is a patterned sable. Her dad was German SL and her mom was a SL/working line. Beyond that, that's all I can tell you. Perhaps similar lines in your pup. 

This is my girl


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

just over 11 months old , pedigree unknown, pups that are 13 days old . How'd that happen?


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Piper'sgrl said:


> Can anyone tell me what lines Piper might be? I'm not sure because I got her from a farmer but he told me that her dad who was a beautiful yet dirty long haired blk/red from Europe and I am not sure where her mom came from. She's just over 11 months now





Piper'sgrl said:


> And yes she did just have one. Her pups are 13 days old today and just starting to open their eyes


Very sad...puppy that shouldn't have puppies is having puppies... :nono:


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

^^^ditto the above


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Her father looks just like my Raina. She is hard drive German working line so your girl could have some in there. Was she pregnant when you got her? If not maybe you can tell who the father is and guess at what the pups will look like. They will most likely go with the most dominant features of mom or dad. She is awful young to be having a planned litter so I'm assuming this was an accident.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

She is really pretty, that much is for certain.:wub:


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

Kind of interesting. I agree with many here who've posted that she's very pretty and looks like she might be some sort of mix of German show/working lines.

But then to me, the sire and dam just look like pretty much your average American pet line dogs. Which I'll then wager a guess is what she is. My guess is luck of the draw just handed you a very striking girl from a pretty ordinary background.


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## GusGus (Oct 24, 2012)

Super gorgeous.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

carmspack said:


> just over 11 months old , pedigree unknown, pups that are 13 days old . How'd that happen?


Yes, please tell us. Why was this puppy allowed to be bred?


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## Questforfire (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't really see working lines in your girl tbh. I would also have a guess that she is from pet lines. 

I am saddened to hear that she has already had a litter of pups when she is only a pup herself, and she is from, I am guessing, non health tested and non papered parents


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

carmspack said:


> just over 11 months old , pedigree unknown, pups that are 13 days old . How'd that happen?





qbchottu said:


> Very sad...puppy that shouldn't have puppies is having puppies... :nono:[/QUO
> 
> This isnt about her puppies. It's about what you think is her lines. Ive been in the veterinary field for years now. I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old. Unfortunately she got caught early by Zeus my bfs pure gsd. My dad (who is a DVM and has had his own small animal clinic Kitchener, Ontario since 1979) said we could spay her and abort the pups but he said she would be fine with the size of her to deliver pups. My bfs dog is from one of his parents litter of gsd pups that they have been breeding for 25 yrs. So papered or non papered these pups are beautiful and will all be going to good homes. Vet checked dewormed everything you can except being paperd.
> I agree with others that I think she is a German working/showline mix because we dont have dogs like her around where I am from. I appriciate the opinions but please dont think my situation is sad or I can't handle it. I think more showline though with the coat. Her dads coat was very thick and nice if he wasnt so dirty,
> ...


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

> I agree with others that I think she is a German working/showline mix because we dont have dogs like her around where I am from.


Well, um...Why'd you ask opinions if you've made up your mind?

However, just offhand, I'd say since you've posted pictures of the sire and the dam, then that statement doesn't make just a whole lot of sense. Unless you think she was switched into their litter at birth, those two dogs _are_ where she came from. And they both look pretty definitively like American pet line dogs to me.

There may be a German dog in one of their recent pasts to account for the red (if it didn't come from Photoshop) but a full on mix of German lines?

I just don't see it.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Typhoon said:


> Well, um...Why'd you ask opinions if you've made up your mind?
> 
> However, just offhand, I'd say since you've posted pictures of the sire and the dam, then that statement doesn't make just a whole lot of sense. Unless you think she was switched into their litter at birth, those two dogs _are_ where she came from. And they both look pretty definitively like American pet line dogs to me.
> 
> ...


 
well, umm..I didnt say I made up my mind, I said I agreed with the others. The guy told me his sister who originally owned Piper's dad came from Europe, weather thats true or not I don't know but I'll choose to go with him since I cant prove otherwise. Pipers mom i didnt think was anything special though I will admit. But I came on here because I know people would know more about that than me,


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

> The guy told me his sister who originally owned Piper's dad came from Europe, weather thats true or not I don't know but I'll choose to go with him since I cant prove otherwise.


Well, okay. But did he mean the sister, or the dog?

Because to me, the sire looks simply like a long coat black and tan. He definitely does not look like a sable to me. And that's not too typical of the working European working lines I'm accustomed to seeing. His build doesn't look much like a typical working line dog either.

I do know from taking pictures of Ranger (who is much redder in most light than he appears in any pictures I've posted of him here) that GSD red is hard to capture, and that your images look at least somewhat manipulated and the ones of the sire and dam don't...so maybe the sire is redder than he appears and is more or less the same color as her.

But even if so, he's not a sable, and since she is, I kind of doubt she got her coloring from him.

So my take is she's a very pretty dog, and almost all from pet line stock.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

she doesn't really have any lines so to say , because there wasn't really any intention in her breeding, no more than in the accidental breeding that took place .

"Ive been in the veterinary field for years now. I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old" question is WHY when you knew nothing about the female that you have ??? No background history for health , hip and elbow production, longevity, siezures , DM , and on and on . 
AND why buy a female with deliberate intentions to breed her two years down the line when you think her mother is nothing special "Pipers mom i didnt think was anything special though I will admit"

Your Dad approved ? -- " My dad (who is a DVM and has had his own small animal clinic Kitchener, Ontario " -- ??

"My bfs dog is from one of his parents litter of gsd pups that they have been breeding for 25 yrs" ---- and who knows how good they are - but they are purebred so that is $$$ value .

I don't agree that she is working / show line cross . She may not even be the progeny of the two dogs suspected - well okay , mother is known -- the old rhyme 
Mother-Baby , Father?-Maybe! . I would have a DNA done .
I do agree "And they both look pretty definitively like American pet line dogs to me"


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

She looks like she could be SL to me. I see no WL in this dog. She also looks very long in body. I also think the dam looks like a mix. 

I'm really disappointed to see that she's had a litter at under a year old..I've always been a fan of the pictures you've posted and of Piper, but I thought you would've known better than to breed your dog by now with this wealth of information available at your fingertips. 11 months or 2 years...Why do you feel the need to breed your dog? Because you like her temperament and she's pretty? I just don't understand it...


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Typhoon said:


> Well, okay. But did he mean the sister, or the dog?
> 
> Because to me, the sire looks simply like a long coat black and tan. He definitely does not look like a sable to me. And that's not too typical of the working European working lines I'm accustomed to seeing. His build doesn't look much like a typical working line dog either.
> 
> ...


The sister claims she got the dog from Europe and I never once said Pipers dad was a sable, I said her mom was. Dad is blk/red. Piper has a very red pigment..since those pics I have of her dad are crap from the owner i can't help you there although he WAS a red not a tan.



carmspack said:


> she doesn't really have any lines so to say , because there wasn't really any intention in her breeding, no more than in the accidental breeding that took place .
> 
> "Ive been in the veterinary field for years now. I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old" question is WHY when you knew nothing about the female that you have ??? No background history for health , hip and elbow production, longevity, siezures , DM , and on and on .
> AND why buy a female with deliberate intentions to breed her two years down the line when you think her mother is nothing special "Pipers mom i didnt think was anything special though I will admit"
> ...


She is the litter of the two dogs suspected. I find you quite rude and all because you have a screen for protection. Thanks for you input but This thread is NOT about her having a litter early which yes was unfortunate but no she isn' ruined and is very happy and healthy. Her pups are healthy and to be honest I dont want to talk about the early litter thing anymore. I get it how you see it, trust me.



GatorDog said:


> She looks like she could be SL to me. I see no WL in this dog. She also looks very long in body. I also think the dam looks like a mix.
> 
> I'm really disappointed to see that she's had a litter at under a year old..I've always been a fan of the pictures you've posted and of Piper, but I thought you would've known better than to breed your dog by now with this wealth of information available at your fingertips. 11 months or 2 years...Why do you feel the need to breed your dog? Because you like her temperament and she's pretty? I just don't understand it...


Mistakes happen but you know what, I'm just happy that she is fine and healthy and her pups are too. They will be beautiful pups because two beautiful well tempered dogs were bred. I want to discuss what people think she has in her and I've gotten enough info..This thread is going off topic about the litter thing and I didnt start a thread about what you guys think of my dog having pups too early did i? No.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Typhoon said:


> Well, okay. But did he mean the sister, or the dog?
> 
> Because to me, the sire looks simply like a long coat black and tan. He definitely does not look like a sable to me. And that's not too typical of the working European working lines I'm accustomed to seeing. His build doesn't look much like a typical working line dog either.
> 
> ...





carmspack said:


> she doesn't really have any lines so to say , because there wasn't really any intention in her breeding, no more than in the accidental breeding that took place .
> 
> "Ive been in the veterinary field for years now. I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old" question is WHY when you knew nothing about the female that you have ??? No background history for health , hip and elbow production, longevity, siezures , DM , and on and on .
> AND why buy a female with deliberate intentions to breed her two years down the line when you think her mother is nothing special "Pipers mom i didnt think was anything special though I will admit"
> ...


She is the litter of the two dogs suspected. I find you quite rude and all because you have a screen for protection. Thanks for you input but This thread is NOT about her having a litter early which yes was unfortunate but no she isn' ruined and is very happy and healthy. Her pups are healthy and to be honest I dont want to talk about the early litter thing anymore. I get it how you see it, trust me.



GatorDog said:


> She looks like she could be SL to me. I see no WL in this dog. She also looks very long in body. I also think the dam looks like a mix.
> 
> I'm really disappointed to see that she's had a litter at under a year old..I've always been a fan of the pictures you've posted and of Piper, but I thought you would've known better than to breed your dog by now with this wealth of information available at your fingertips. 11 months or 2 years...Why do you feel the need to breed your dog? Because you like her temperament and she's pretty? I just don't understand it...


The sister claims she got the dog from Europe and I never once said Pipers dad was a sable, I said her mom was. Dad is blk/red. Piper has a very red pigment..since those pics I have of her dad are crap from the owner i can't help you there although he WAS a red not a tan.



When I bought her no, I wasnt going to breed her, never had the intention. Did it happen earlier than i wanted and was I upset of course. Will they be hip and elbow cert no. But if she was 2 like was planned bopth her and the dad would have been tested at 1 and a half yrs old but it didnt work out that way.

Did my dad approve she got pregnant early not really,but he also knew her getting pregnant early was a possibility. did he have thoughts on my wanting to breed her eventually. Yes of course, did he give me his advice..of course he would, hes my vet. I didnt breed her to make any type of money since i know you certaintly dont make much if any money.


Mistakes happen but you know what, I'm just happy that she is fine and healthy and her pups are too. They will be beautiful pups because two beautiful well tempered dogs were bred. I want to discuss what people think she has in her and I've gotten enough info..This thread is going off topic about the litter thing and I didnt start a thread about what you guys think of my dog having pups too early did i? No.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't think you will ever know what lines she is and I think you are probably only asking so you can tell puppy buyers something that sounds legitimate.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

I was actually asking out of wanting to try and learn more about my dog and more on the breed in general and wasn't even thinking of the buyers...


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

Well, the point is then that if the male did indeed come from Germany, he probably is a showline. There's just nothing about him that says working line at all. Confirmation-wise, he doesn't really look like a showline to me, either, but maybe it's the way he's standing.

But even if that's the case, what you've got then is a mix of WGSL --the sire-- and American pet lines --the dam-- not a mix of German working and show lines.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Oh Gator dog I think you hit the nail on the head . 

" I've always grown up with dogs but always labs. She isn't papered but papers dont mean much to me as I don't plan on showing. My girl who I've named Piper, is just over 3 months. She was born on January 15th" (2012)

So the pups are 3 weeks (plus some) as we speak . The dog is 11 months . Gestation is 2 months . She was bred when she was 9 months of age.



I said what I thought . I would say the same thing over the phone and in person. If someone , out of the blue , were to call me and ask , "say, I've found this litter and here is the background information , I'm thinking of maybe getting one of the pups and I want your opinion " guess what? nothing would change , I would say the same thing. It's integrity. 

"I get it how you see it, trust me." here is how I see it . You bought a female and quoting you "
I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old. Unfortunately she got caught early by Zeus my bfs pure gsd. " Then on page 4 you contradict that statement with "When I bought her no, I wasnt going to breed her, never had the intention" and then you continue with the next sentence contradicting yourself - who was "never" going to breed with ". Did it happen earlier than i wanted and was I upset of course."

hey , at one time I was a reader of manuscripts before they were passed on for consideration for another read , possible publish -- I had to catch breaks in continuity -- so stuff like this glares.

"She's extremely laid back and I love it. She will play ball with you but never for very long before she gets bored of it. She lives to cuddle and go on long walks "

both Piper and Zeus hate the vaccuum " Piper hates it, so does Zeus..they both leave the room when I turn it on" so potentially the pups may have some noise/sound sensitivity.

Piper was the shy pup "It was my bf who got me to look at the shy girl in the back. A long coated sable pup female. The owners said first come first serve" , remember this
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...at-attracted-you-gsd-breed-4.html#post2596126

and - "Well than I'm sure one of her parents was sable but neither looked it to me." doubts about her being purebred
"I'm really excited to see the changes that she goes through! I got some pics of pipers parents. I must admit I wasn't impressed with the look of mom but dad was gorgeous. The pics are not that great but gives you an idea perhaps. The one pic the guy sent me of mom she's wet so I asked for one when she's dry but ill put up the ones I have of them. So dad is the blk and tan and mom is the light tan, I suppose she might be the "sable" one lol and then the one of the two of them together. Don't mind the hound in the middle. 
_Last edited by Piper'sgrl; 08-20-2012 at 09:51 AM. _







    
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 05-08-2012, 05:54 PM #*23* (*permalink*) *JakodaCD OA* 
Moderator

 

Join Date: May 2000
Location: Old Lyme, CT USA
Posts: 16,261 










a really gorgeous puppy,,but, I don't see sable in either parents? Is that mom in the 3rd picture? and again in the last picture (far right?) In the 3rd pic I , she looks like a mix, but may be cause she is wet? The last pic she looks like a purebred but I don't see sable in her at all.

Could mom have gotten hooked up with another male possibly??? 


​what else can I say but OMG , OMG " would never be able to shoot my dog and don't really think its right. For me too many emotions and love for my animals for it to ever feel right shooting an animal. But my bfs parents have raised n bred Shepherds for over 25 yrs and his dad has shot all of their dogs when the time comes. He says he will never let a vet do the job. As he says, a bullet is a lot less expensive... " 

here is Zeus , the sire of the baby pups   He looks pretty much the same age as the young Piper . I would speculate 3 or 4 months difference. He does not look like breeding material !



this is the history of your pups --


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

Well congratulations! You are a backyard breeder. That is always something to aspire too.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I do not believe mom is a sable either , actually far from it. Dad, still looks to me be a long haired black/tan. 

I can't fathom a guess on 'lines', but if I had to, I also would say american/canadian pet lines. All gsd's originate from germany/europe/ whatever, but it can be so far back in a pedigree that it's 'lost' on what's actually there.

You may have two temperamentally good dogs that got hooked up, but how healthy are they in the long run? Hips/elbows?? Are you going to give your new puppy owners a health guarantee? Are you going to INSIST they spay/neuter them?? If not, I would.

Accidents happen, but a vet tech who's dad is a vet, should really know better about heat cycles, keeping females intact away from intact males and not even thinking about breeding dogs with no papers/no knowledge of background. 

In the end, I'd be giving these puppies FREE to good homes, insist on spay/neuter, and I'd spay your female. Your just real lucky she came thru this ok at her age..


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I do not believe mom is a sable either , actually far from it. Dad, still looks to me be a long haired black/tan.
> 
> I can't fathom a guess on 'lines', but if I had to, I also would say american/canadian pet lines. All gsd's originate from germany/europe/ whatever, but it can be so far back in a pedigree that it's 'lost' on what's actually there.
> 
> ...


That is the best advice I've heard on this thread. Sorry to hear about the dog, but accidents (and accident breeding) do happen. It's a shame, people are still chasing $$$ instead of leaving the breeding to the professionals. 

I would spay the female though - breeding her is equivalent to breeding a mixed breed, except mixed breeds are hardier  without papers, information on the parents, health testing, temperament testing, etc etc there's really not much there in terms of bettering the breed or even predicting what the offspring might be like...


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

OP isn't going to spay the female. Her plans were to breed the dog at 2 years anyways..


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

GatorDog said:


> OP isn't going to spay the female. Her plans were to breed the dog at 2 years anyways..


Actually if you did a better job of readings what I wrote. I said I will be spaying her after 3 months. So in march. She was 8 and a half months when her and Zeus hooked up and yes he's about 3 months older than piper.


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## ayoitzrimz (Apr 14, 2010)

Piper'sgrl said:


> I got Piper at 12 weeks old..I wanted to breed Piper at 2 years old. Unfortunately she got caught early by Zeus my bfs pure gsd. My dad (who is a DVM and has had his own small animal clinic Kitchener, Ontario since 1979) said we could spay her and abort the pups but he said she would be fine with the size of her to deliver pups. My bfs dog is from one of his parents litter of gsd pups that they have been breeding for 25 yrs. So papered or non papered these pups are beautiful and will all be going to good homes. Vet checked dewormed everything you can except being paperd.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

You may have two temperamentally good dogs that got hooked up --- but they were not , are not . The mother , the most important was the shy dog that stayed at the back of the room against the wall. Both dogs run for cover when the vaccuum is in use so noise - sound sensitive , never mind gun fire test or conflict yelling . I am sure we have forum members whose dogs are a nuisance when they are trying to vaccuum because the dog will be actively engaged (in the way hampering progress) barking at the vaccuum and trying to catch the broom while it is going back and forth .

They are not tested in any way at all for temperament. 

The male, Zeus coming from a family that has breeding gsd for 25 years , should have produced "something" noteworthy. The picture of Zeus shows poor conformation, not even particularly nice pigment . How in the world do you expect people spending money on improvements in breeding stock , ELIMINATING dogs that don't fit the criteria , test for hips , give GOOD food , when they don't even want to give their ailing or older dogs a proper end to life , opting to shoot them , all of them, because a bullet is cheaper than a vet appointment .


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

First, Piper is a very pretty girl. 

I'm glad she came thru the delivery without any problems and I'm glad you are going to spay her after she has raised this litter. I'm sure you are aware that there are many facets of breeding including the pedigree, temperament, etc. Have you thought about contacting a rescue for the puppies? They often have contracts you could use and could help you with picking good homes. They may even have already approved home that are looking for puppies. Are you prepared to take the puppies back at any age and time to rehome them? If you can get the puppies into a good rescue, they will have back up for life.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

ayoitzrimz said:


>


Thanks. That's exactly what I was referring to.


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

Carmen,



> I don't see sable in either parents? Is that mom in the 3rd picture? and again in the last picture (far right?) In the 3rd pic I , she looks like a mix, but may be cause she is wet? The last pic she looks like a purebred but I don't see sable in her at all.


Just out of curiosity, are you sure?

In this picture...










...her back and tail look pretty similar to my last GSD, the late and much missed and beloved Harley, who I know was a sable...










Even her chest area is more the same than different.

Granted, I think Harley was a much more handsome GSD, but...am I missing something?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Typhoon , the quote you posted is not my words . Actually that was Jakoda 
"a really gorgeous puppy,,but, I don't see sable in either parents? Is that mom in the 3rd picture? and again in the last picture (far right?) In the 3rd pic I , she looks like a mix, but may be cause she is wet? The last pic she looks like a purebred but I don't see sable in her at all.

Could mom have gotten hooked up with another male possibly??? " ________________
Diane 
Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi"


But being a virtual "house o'sables" CARMSPACK.com I would question the female being sable but the pup sure is 
This is the best and first GSD I've ever had.
I got my girl Piper a few days before she turned 12 weeks old.

So here are some pics of her from 12 weeks to now at almost 11 months. 
Attached Thumbnails

she is a pretty dog .


regardless of whether the dam is sable or not , she has poor pigment - mask , nails , Your lovely female would be faulted on pigment , even sables can have fading pigment , nails should be hard and black not grey or brownish and not striped .

do you have pictures of your Harley's parents ?


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

> Your lovely female would be faulted on pigment , even sables can have fading pigment , nails should be hard and black not grey or brownish and not striped.


Actually, Harley was a male. He was the runt of the litter and always a little smallish and kind of feminine looking. And I know you're right about his pigment. He was AKC registered but completely American pet lines... and believe me, he had plenty of faults. But he was a sable. Pictures of him as a pup are all pre-digital, and I don't have a scanner, but he went through the typical sable pup transformation.



> do you have pictures of your Harley's parents ?


No. I think there's one of his sire online somewhere, but I'd have to go dig the name out of the safe. But again, I'm not claiming him as anything other than sable, and an absolute sweetheart.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> Accidents happen, but a vet tech who's dad is a vet, should really know better about heat cycles, keeping females intact away from intact males and not even thinking about breeding dogs with no papers/no knowledge of background.


That's what I was thinking.

Piper'sgirl, I know you only want to talk about what bloodlines your dog may be, but face it--without any papers, knowledge or proof of her bloodlines, what you have is tantamount to a mixed breeding. Why did you want to breed this shy, unknown, unregistered dog at 2 years of age? There are already too many people doing this. I hope you have all the puppies spayed/neutered before placing them so that this cycle does not continue.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I think maybe Daddy isn't too pleased with her -- the boyfriend said , hey move in with me and I'll get you the puppy , and she loved the boyfriend and was ready to move out anyway so there you have it .

any way lets hope there are good futures ahead .


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## Typhoon (Aug 16, 2012)

> the boyfriend said , hey move in with me and I'll get you the puppy...


Worked out for the boyfriend and Zeus, anyway.


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