# ~Lines~



## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Hello....... This goes out to all you agility people that compete or have competed.  Just wondering what lines you have felt do best in this sport ? Not wanting to get a dog to win, win, win, (It tis nice though ) just to have great focus, enjoy to work, have the drive, etc. Not sure when it comes to DDR, are they to heavy bodied, blocky, etc for this sport ? I know the Czech dogs are more streamline & seem very fit for it, but I also don't want a crazy, over the top, BC type either. I am a go, go person, just not 24/7.  Not into the very high drives that bark at ya, nip at ya, hard to focus because ready to go, BC mode, etc.......... 

I know German WL for sure needed for this sport. I just see............100% DDR, 100% Czech, West Working mixed with either, etc, East Working mixed, DDR/Czech combo, etc......................

Thanks for any info..........


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

BTW, What line do you have or had ? Their weights at adults ? Did 1 line you had do better than currect or vice versa ?

~Thanks~


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

I just wanted to say that all lines can have different drives in their litters. They can have super drivey/sport pups and they can have medium drive family pups.


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## Kayos and Havoc (Oct 17, 2002)

I do not think the line matters so much as how each pup is built physically and mentally. Shyne at Guardyan kennels competes very succesfully with WGSL. MaggieRoseLee has working lines that she is very successful with.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

I have a WGWL dog and he's a blast! He's doing very well in agility and we're well on our way to his MACH.

If you want an agility dog and you want to do well, you are going to want a drivey, well built, structurally sound, agile dog.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

And there are people who do very well with American Show Lines. Julie Degen for one.


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## LuvourGSDs (Jan 14, 2007)

Not saying any line can not do this work.  I have a West German SL boy that does fairly well, just a big boy. 

When looking into the world of sables per say, seems many are DDR & Czech. Just wondered I guess of the build on DDR dogs, if too heavy bodied ? I get ya on drives.  Me not into very high/high crazy................ 

~Thanks~


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## GSD07 (Feb 23, 2007)

I think it's a myth that DDR are heavy bodied big headed dump trucks. Sure there are some like that but many are not. My dog is 25.5in/76lb at his 3yo, and as agile as it gets.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

I have done agility with two Amlines and a West German showline (predominantly WGSL anyway). My Amline girl liked it but wasn't real drivey. My Amline boy was fairly drivey and enjoyed it but was big and had a lot of rear so something were awkward for him. My WGSL was outstanding in terms of drive and ability. She had a much more compact body than either of the Amlines and was absolutely loved agility. People were always surprised by her speed when they first saw her run. I probably would go for a German working line the next time around because I think it would be easier to find what I want in that but the right dog from any line can do well in agility. Just be sure to avoid exaggerations in structure that are common in some lines of show dogs (both American and German). Excessive length and agulation of the rear legs causes jumping and turning issues. Exaggerated roached backs can cause all around awkward movement. Being "down" in the pasterns and/or hocks will also affect the dog's athletic ability. 

FWIW there is a recent thread in another section about this topic. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/151922-if-i-want-agility-dog.html


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## GSDElsa (Jul 22, 2009)

I would say small working line female.

Elsa LOVES agility, but she isn't super quick. She's about 68 pounds and is built kind of masculine. If I was to ever really want to trial in agility I'd probably go with something a litle finer boned and smaller.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Demons from my Pike daughter out of a Yoshey son is an agility wizard - wins stuff and has so many letters after her name I am clueless to what they are! She is a medium sized female, not extremely heavy bones and just an agile dog - one of my E pups, Errow, who is big and Fyurie, who is even bigger are both competing sucessfully in Flyball...agian, lots of letters that I really don't know....it is a combo of drive, social/environmental soundness and athletic ability more than bloodlines IMO - have seen tiny little dogs and huge dogs with similar pedigrees...so look at the dog and the temperament...

Lee


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

I'm getting ready to start with my West German Working line Boy. 
Cade vom Eisernen Loewen - German shepherd dog

He's about 66lbs and not particularly angulated and more on the square side. A couple of the trainers I've worked with said they thought he woudl do well in agility because he's built for that kind of work. (I defer to their expertise) IME I've found him to be much more agile than the dogs with more leg and rear- like AgileGSD said. However, his much larger brother would be a disaster in agility I think...too long. 

A friend of mine has a WGWL male that I believe is in the top 10 for German Shepherds in Agility. He's a BIG dog, but from what I understand he may not be the fastest but he's very consistent. MACH Felix von der Eisenkaute - German shepherd dog


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think you will see from the postings so far, it's not necessarily one line over the other that does well in agility, it's more the individual dog. 

My heavy bodied "dump truck" (I Love that description oksana LOL) male (ddr)was not a great candidate for agility, tho I loved him to death He was a big 'doofus" and agility just was not his thing.

My female Sami, was czech/am lines rescue, my first agility dog and a dream to run, unfortunately her career was cut short because of OCD(knee probs)..However, I liked her structure. She was leggy, longer bodied, finer boned and weighed around 70lbs at her heaviest. She had no problems clearing jumps of any height.

I LOVE the compact and bouncy size/structure of my aussie, but alas, she is not "into" agility either

Masi, well I've still not determined whether agility is her thing..She has no problem doing it, but I can tell she just isn't into it prefering track/obed to it. I try to see what my dogs enjoy and do well at and go from there.

But I digress, for me for agility, I like a leggier gsd, not particularly long in body, and not a heavy bodied dog. I look for good focus, biddability, and a daring attitude 
I tend to gravitate towards the czech/ddr/ dogs just because I like them

Looking for one, I can only suggest to go to a breeder who's doing well IN agility or producing dogs doing well in agility, as they can most likely peg those puppies that would fit you..


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GSDElsa said:


> I would say small working line female.


That's what I have and I can't wait to find a good agility class for her! She's around 60 pounds and extremely fast, agile, and athletic.

Keefer is not DDR, but he IS a big boned huge headed dump truck.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I really think it's about working with a breeder to match what you want/need. Course STRUCTURALLY is makes sense to stay on the smaller side. One of the reasons many of us stick with the females in the hope to stay out of the 90 pound boy dog range...


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I think you will see from the postings so far, it's not necessarily one line over the other that does well in agility, it's more the individual dog.
> 
> Looking for one, I can only suggest to go to a breeder who's doing well IN agility or producing dogs doing well in agility, as they can most likely peg those puppies that would fit you..


I agree on both counts. I certainly don't have the experience to say quite yet how well my dog will do in agility, but so far she is showing truly remarkable promise. And guess what line she is... ummm.... yeah, it would be total a guess. I got her from a pet store, so she's about as "pet quality" as they come. Yet she is so far progressing quite well. She's 26" tall, 28" long, 74lbs, relatively light boned, not overly angulated, square in the hips, and medium-low drive (I think- honestly I've never seen a high drive GSD in person). So, all in all, she's hardly what you might expect to be a "great" agility dog physicially- but like I said- so far she is doing great!

I also think talking to a breeder producing dogs doing well in agility is obviously great advice. With my next dog, I will pursue this route.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Sheli Rhodes competes with a W.Ger. working line girl, Deva--she won the GSDCA Agility Victrix title with her in 2009.

Her new young dog is a Jimbeam daughter--with this pedigree.

I think that the individual dog is going to be more important than bloodlines for competitive agility with a GSD. You do want to make sure to go to parents that have the body type you're looking for--and then look for the puppy in the litter that also isn't the biggest or most heavyset.


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## TaraM1285 (Sep 24, 2009)

I am not trialing yet, but my rescue (probably BYB) girl is amazing to work with and I think she's going to do quite well!  She is 23.5" at the withers and about 68 pounds. She is very quick and agile, turns easily and loves to jump. I didn't start her until she was about 2 years old (adopted at 1.5), but she took to it like a fish to water.


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

GSDElsa said:


> I would say small working line female.
> 
> Elsa LOVES agility, but she isn't super quick. She's about 68 pounds and is built kind of masculine. If I was to ever really want to trial in agility I'd probably go with something a litle finer boned and smaller.


 My 23", 60-65lb girl was pretty fast. Still running courses 20 seconds+ under course time at 9 years old. She was compact but average build for a female. In her younger years, she was sometimes the fastest dog running in her class of all heights/breeds but always one of the fastest. My other GSD girk was not very fast and of a similar size but bit longer bodied. While very large dogs, very heavy boned dogs or very tall dogs do have limitations in agility, one shouldn't need to find an undersized GSD to do well in the sport. I would suggest looking for a dog who is not very long bodied, which is a common fault in GSDs. They should be a bit longer than tall but not way longer than tall.

The biggest issue I have see in GSDs in agility over the years isn't so much size. It's somewhat build (very long bodies, excessive rears, heavy bone, weak pasterns/hocks, very roached backs and/or long bodies) that prevents them from being as agile as they they should be but more than that, it's motivation issues. My GSD boy did not have the best build for agility and he was quite tall but he tried his best every time. He might not have ever been the fastest or have the tightest turns but he did run on course, not walk or trot. My good agility GSD was not the one with the best structure between my girls - she was east/west in the front and slightly roach backed. She was the one with the best drive and best work ethic though. She wanted to do stuff and wanted to do stuff with me. Once she was trained to the obstacles, doing agility was the reward and there was no real need for treats and toys. This is a blessing and curse though, as from a very young age she could hardly stand to see other dogs doing agility when she had to wait her turn LOL

A lot of GSDs I see in agility really seem like they are only doing it because it's what their owner is asking them to do. Regardless of the dog's size or their lack of ideal structure they should be able to run  Most GSDs I see doing agility don't run. If I were training another GSD for agility, I would first buy from a puppy from breeder who has dogs titled in things which require they have decent drive and biddability. I'd look for the things I always look for in a puppy - environmental soundness, retrieve drive, tug drive and being human oriented. Then I would be sure to do drive building exercises, lots of work on teaching the puppy to run with me, prioritize building value for agility and always practice with speed in mind instead of hoping to build speed later. Once you create the want to, the rest is easy (as long as you also teach a solid contact behavior LOL).


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I wouldn't look so much to a specific line , I would look to absolute confidence and trust , no hesitation. I would look to a lean hard dry muscle type , opposite of the pillowy soft "wet" dogs so popular as teddy bear pets. I would look for a good shoulder placement that allows the front to open up , grab the earth , collapse so that the dog can crawl and get up quickly. Look for good focus and ability to direct. The dog that gets distracted takes up time. Look for foot sureness . 
Carmen


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