# Please help - I'm in over my head.



## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Please help - I'm in over my head.*

On Sunday I brought home a 2 yr old neutered male long haired gs who was going to be pts due to "slight changes in his x-rays." All he has known is kennel living - his owners didn't make a pet out of him. He doesn't even know what a toy is.
He has gone through 8 months of training, I was told it was guard dog & search training. He does know the basic commands also.
He is very people friendly, we rode in the cab of my truck over 3 hours to home with his head on my lap. He won't eat unless I am sitting next to him. Sunday night, he broke a nylon collar to get loose (I had him tied in a dog yard, and he knocked open the gate) and came to my back door, barking until I let him in. Yes, he BROKE the nylon itself!
He has been socialized somewhat with other dogs, but my puppy (5 mts) Sam isn't very happy with my spending time with the new boy, and when I am with Sam, Adonis paces back & forth looking pretty unhappy. I am terrified of them getting together and having a horrible fight.
I am in over my head here. I want to do right for Adonis, so if there is someone who is capable of giving him a safe loving home, please email me.
[email protected]
Adonis was imported from Austria - his papers are being sent to me, so as soon as I get them, they will go to his new owner.


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## Kay13411 (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Have you tried to introduce them at all? I would at least get them close enough, through a fence or something to see how they react, you will need to watch their body language.... If that apprears to go well I would try to introduce them.. I would not want to do this alone, get someone to help, just incase it doesn't go so well


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## mpfsmf573 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Vicki Don't give up I took in two outdoor kennel dogs and when introductions happened they were great with the other dogs. I am working with the 2 to change them to family pets and indoor dogs as well. I respect that you may think you are in to deep but keep trying this breed is amazing and only want to please there owners.
I just recently went from 2 to 4 dogs in my home.


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## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I am more than willing to try - I just don't know if they will accept each other. I'm not sure, but they both act like they are jealous of the time I spend with the other. Is that possible with Adonis as I just picked him up on Sunday?
My son & I made 2 dog yards (16x20 each) where they have their pools & dog houses - they are about 3 feet apart. I take Adonis into his and keep him on a lead rope so he can play in his pool as I am too nervous to let him in there for good yet. He usually lays or sits right next to my chair while Sam barks and yelps and whines in his. Today when Sam was acting out, Adonis tried to climb into my lap! 
I wish I knew exactly what guard training he has had - I am worried about giving him a command without knowing it, and I don't know any of his release commands.
So far he has been very lovable to me, and tries to be with my son, but the son doesn't like dogs - he is a cat person.
Any suggestions are greatly welcomed. I want what is best for Adonis.


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## mpfsmf573 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Vicki, Kay is right get another set of strong hands and try to introduce the 2 as quickly as possible as far as commands go stick to the basics and the word NO is universal if he is trying to cuddle with you just after 4 days I think you might be amazed (I hope). I will keep watching your posting if I were in Illinois I would help you my self.


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## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I will have a friend come out later today, and we can give it a try. Hopefully Adonis can tell that Sam is a puppy and be more tolerant of him.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

This sounds like very normal behavior, they both would like to be with you and they think they are lap dogs. Can somebody help you to take them for a walk together, first at a safe distance and then closer.
It sounds like this dog is a gem.
Do you plan to keep them in the house or in the yard. GSDs don't do well as backyard dogs.


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## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

My house isn't big enough for them to be inside, and my husband will not allow it. Our house dog of 14 years passed away in 2002, and after that he said never again.
Sam has to be outside due to his kidney problems. When he has to go, it's right now, and I am a very sound sleeper, so it wouldn't be fair to him. 
When I let Adonis in on Sunday night for the few minutes it took to set up a stall for him for the rest of the night, it was like having a bull in a china shop! He is a massive boy - my son said he looks like a small bear.


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## kathryndhinkle (Feb 24, 2006)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Just my opinion here, but it sounds like Adonis is making it very clear he does not want to be kept outside all the time. He wants to be inside with his pack. So probably a household that accommodate him inside would be better for him. Good luck.

Kathryn


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Your 5 month old GSD has kidney problems?









GSD's don't do well living outside...they want to be with their pack. I also think a 5 month old can get into alot of trouble left unsupervised in a backyard









Your house is never too small for a GSD









Can you post Adonis's pictures and write up - it will help finding him a home. 
Thanks!


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## canineresq (May 20, 2004)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Vicki, if it does not work out, please do not bring him to the pound or place him with the wrong people ( alot of people may want him for the wrong reasons) . I am out here in Eastern Pennsylvania, but if you can give me a couple of days notice I will come out and get him. As several people on the board here can attest to, I have driven all over the eastern half of the country to do rescues of GSD's. I have alot of experience with working GSD's .Regardless of what type of training he has had, this does not change their basic instinct for need of a pack structure, and seeking an Alpha leader. Chances are if the dog was imported, he was probably trained in German commands. You can try some of the safe basics to see if he responds such as ( and these are not spelled correctly, just spelling them phonetically for proper pronunciation sake) SEETZ for sit , OFF for down, HAIR PLOT for come ( or sometimes just the word come) , VOLG for heel , APPORT for fetch , BLAYIF for stay . Just because a dog has received protection training does not mean he is a time bomb waiting to explode when he hears a certain word. Not every GSD is cut out for this type of work, in fact most are not, and dogs that are trained ( at least by a reputable trainer) are some of the most stable , even tempered dogs you will come across. If you think about it, they have to be, alot of police departments use their K-9's as public relations tools, and they certainly could not afford the risk of having an unstable or bad tempered dog out on the streets or meeting children in schools .


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## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Thanks everybody for responding. Let me try to clear some things up. First Sam was born with smaller than normal kidneys. I've had him to the vet, and while all his bloodwork looks good, the fact is that he has to urinate alot more often than normal. 
He sometimes goes without warning - it isn't feasable to have him inside.
I've had him since the beginning of June, outside, and he hasn't suffered any ill effects from it. We live on a farm, and he has a 16x 20 foot square yard that we made for him, with his own pool and doghouse & toys. He is safe in a shady area. I spend as much time with him out of his yard as possible.
As for Adonis - he actually doesn't like to be in the house. He was whining at the door Sunday night until I was able to make him a temp area in a stall. I think he was upset because it was a new situation for him. Now he appears to be doing fine out in his yard.
Plain and simple - my husband will not have a dog in the house. Ever. 
I would never even think of sending any animal to a pound. That is not an option!
Adonis has a yard we made him exactly like Sams, with his own pool, house, and a coffee mug of mine that he likes to carry around.
When I spend time with him, it is like he is joined at my hip. I did find out that he was not taught any commands in German. Only English. I am hoping to get to talk with the trainer soon so I can get first hand knowledge of what he was taught. Eight months seems like a long time to be in training. He was imported as a little guy and sent to training after he was recieved by his former owners.
I wasn't able to introduce the boys today - we has a heck of a storm come through here, then I had to go help a friend put up hay, but I am planning to give it a try tomorrow.
Thank you all of your imput.


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## mpfsmf573 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Hi Vicki, I am sorry to hear that the dogs are not allowed into the house except to visit etc. they by far do better when they are close to there owners. Please remember and I have experienced this as well, No one on here knows your situation or you so even though it sounds as if people are not happy with your set up you are still doing wonderful things to help the lives of your dogs. Hope you find success in your introductions today. Adonis sounds great I am sure with your continued love and working with him he will be a great addition to your family. Does the husband enjoy the dogs outside maybe he will give as he spends more time with them.


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## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

He is an OTR trucker, so he is gone alot. He spends some time with Sam when he is home, but he didn't get to meet Adonis yet. He will this weekend.
It isn't a matter of him giving - this house is too small to have a large dog in it, let alone two.
The people who had Adonis before had him in a kennel at their barn because he barked too much. Not a lot of interaction there. He is used to being outside, alone. Here yes, he is outside, not in a small kennel, but in a nice grassy large yard. He gets a lot of attention, we spend time together out of his yard, and then he gets to go back into his place.
I'm really sorry to upset anyone who doesn't like this, but the alternative was he would have been pts. Today - 8/1.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I appreciate that having a dog indoors is not part of your husband's culture, but the fact that your dog is "used to being alone" is unnatural. Dogs are pack animals, they make their people their pack. 

I hope you will find an appropriate placement for Adonis with people who are able to incorporate him completely into their lives.


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## kathryndhinkle (Feb 24, 2006)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I'm always saying my kids are getting too big and causing us to outgrow our house, but I don't suppose I'll be setting their bedroom furniture up outside anytime soon! Seriously..the only way your large dog couldn't "fit" in your house is if he can't fit through the front door or stand up and turn around once he is inside. Good grief. And I have never ever met a dog who doesn't "like" being inside..and I have had hundreds in my homes over the years.

Kathryn


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## Brightelf (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

The OP as well as her hubby, BOTH prefer these dogs to be outdoors. Are the dogs being fostered there until someone can take them, or the recently adopted dog?

To the OP-- thank you for saving this dog's life! Hopefully, the adopter that is found will bring the dog to live indoors within the family unit. I hope you find someone soon, for your own sake as well as the dog's. Sorry the whole issue is causing you stress.

By the way, I have always lived in a 1-bedroom apartment with my GSD. It takes WAY more involvement than most wish to give-- tons and tons of walking, 4 - 6 times per day, appointments at an off-lead area for 2 hours of free running per day, doggy classes, socialization, etc etc.. but he does get to snuggle beside me watching telly, and lay beside my bed at night, feeling a part of our family. For those who are newbies to GSDs here reading, that's why I bring this up--a large dog inside a small home can be done.


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## dd (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

No - I think only one is a foster, the other is the resident dog.

One thing you might consider, Vicki - IF you husband could be convinced to bring the dog in - is to teach him to ring a bell when he needs to go potty. This is easily taught and would avoid accidents indoors.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

And doggy doors-I don't believe in them because
A. I control access in and out 
B. I am paranoid about a dog being outside unsupervised 
but know a lot of people who use them. 

Vicky-we just want to put information out on these threads for anyone who is lurking/reading, so that they can learn that GSDs are really pack dogs who love to be with their people, and that there are often ways to work things to have this happen. 

I read some past posts on your kidney puppy-that is a sad thing-puppy mills really do a number on dogs.


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## SunCzarina (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

C: any door big enough for an adult GSD will also allow a teenage burgler in your house.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

It sounds like there is an excellent offer out there for Adonis. The rescue will evaluate him and place him into a home that can handle a working dog.
It sounds like you have your hands full with the sick puppy and, without being able to bring him into your home, this can be a very stressful situation for everybody involved.


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## Sams Mom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I wasn't going to respond anymore after reading the last few post, but I can't let it go on. 
First of all - it is NOT because of my "husbands culture" - it is HIS CHOICE. No dogs in the house. Plain and simple.
You guys need to all take a step back and realize that not everyone thinks, nor lives like you might.
I also have 20 horses that are *gasp* outside in their pastures 24/7. Horrors!!! 
I have requested that my membership/ account or whatever you call it be cancelled. The sooner the better.
To those of you who offered suggestions on introducing the boys, I thank you.
We will be leaving here now. 
BTW - Sam isn't sick. He has a medical condition that will take his life sooner, rather than later. There isn't anything I can do. Any of you want to second guess my vet too???
Stress - I got most of it from here. Sorry I ever posted.
Good -bye.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I really don't understand why you are this nasty to the people who gave you good advice and offered to take in the dog that you wanted to get rid of in your original post only days after you got him. 
Can you specify the difference between "sick" and "having a medical condition that will take his life sooner rather than later"?


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Well, since the OP has probably left for good, this thread will hang around as education for others who happen by. 

IMO, here's the lesson to be learned: If you bring home a dog, decide the next day you're in over your head, then go to a web board and ask for advice...expect to get some. 

You may like some of what's offered, you may not. Whether or not you choose to think about it, act on it, allow it to upset you, get defensive, or quit--that's entirely up to you. Nobody here can make you do anything at all, including get angry. 

Thanks for trying to help this dog. I hope he finds a good forever home.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*



> Originally Posted By: Luca_stlWell, since the OP has probably left for good, this thread will hang around as education for others who happen by.
> 
> IMO, here's the lesson to be learned: If you bring home a dog, decide the next day you're in over your head, then go to a web board and ask for advice...expect to get some.
> 
> ...


Great post.


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## mpfsmf573 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

This would not be the first time I have seen so called advice chase good people from this site. I was told most on here had big hearts and were open minded BUT I am reading a lot of one track request not open minded suggestions. Sorry Vicki good luck with Adonis.


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## tracyc (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I've read every post in this thread, and I don't see a single one that is anything but helpful--including several from you, marcandsusan. There are a number of different thoughts on what the OP could or should do--but nobody in this thread got nasty except the OP on her way out. 

It seems to me that the "open-mindededness" that you're alluding to has to first come from the person asking for advice. One must be open-minded enough to realize that they may hear opinions or suggestions they hadn't already thought of, and may not like.


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## Myamom (Oct 10, 2005)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Amen Tracy


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## Avamom (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I understand the need to keep a welcoming atmosphere on this board and I agree with that but I think it is irresponsible not to speak up when you see a dangerous post just to spare the feelings of someone. I have a hard time accepting and not speaking out when someone explains that their dog has kidney issues caused by a genetic defect and they state that nothing can be done. And yes, if your vet told you that I am questioning your vet. Its 2008 and ALOT can be done for a dog with malformed kidneys and NEEDS to be done other than having them outside because that is the most convienent for the owner to not have to clean up messes. And if someone doesn't see the difference between horses being outside but dogs should be inside then I don't think I can explain that one. 

Dogs with compromised kidneys need to be on special diets, supplements and sometimes need fluid therapy. Having smaller kidneys, depending on the specific defect, usually means the kidneys have decreased ability to process and flush toxins...so they need their owners to make sure they are getting a diet that is easiest for their kidneys to process. They also need their condition monitored with blood tests and urine tests. I hope these things are being done and it just wasn't explained to us by the OP....but if anyone else is reading this I don't want them to get the wrong idea that a dog with kidney issues is just doomed and you can't do anything about it. 

Yes, kidney disease isn't curable but it is managable and supportable. 

Please don't do nothing and think its just the way they were born and they will just die sooner....that is NOT acceptable!


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## daniella5574 (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I dont understand why she got so upset. I think it is wonderful that she saved this dog from being PTS- but, if I wasnt going to have a dog as a companion, part of my family, (living indoors, interacting with my skin family everyday) I would not get one at all. However, she did ask for advice and help placing the dog, so, I guess all in all the focus needs to be on getting the dog rescue help, before any hope of helping is gone... like it seems to be now. What a sad situation.


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## Sampson's girl (Mar 22, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

There is a delicate balance to achieve between the rescue of the dog, the education of the owner, and the specific facts which pertain to each situation. People can get defensive for a myriad of reasons - and when they get defensive and shut-down - unfortunately, it is the dog who may end up suffering even more. 

I believe it is helpful to state things in terms of your own personal experience "I have found . . . " as opposed to "You have to . . ." - that way it may be experienced as less of a personal attack.

I just hope that the OP can view the advice in the spirit it was given - not as a condemnation of her - but rather, a sincere attempt to help her dogs as much as possible and get them into an indoor, family situation where they can live out long, happy lives.


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## TNGSD (Feb 15, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I do a lot of mentoring as part of my job and one thing I know for sure is that if I was completely up front with all of my opinions I would scare away or discourage a lot of students. Change occurs as we develop a relationship and gain their trust. When you are dealing with human learners you can predict human nature and the way humans learn. You all know a lot more than me about dog training but when it comes to giving advice to people I think that you can only try to give suggestions and give advice- being judgemental is only going to turn them off. I know its hard not to be judgemental or sound judgemental but if you could try to tell the poster you understand what they are asking and why and then make a suggestions of how to try new ideas in small steps..... some people are better at mentoring than others and although many of you are not here to "mentor" and feel like it's your right to be able to post what ever you want (and it is your right) I hope that some of you can also take adult learning styles into considertion and help a few people/dogs that might otherwise be scared away! You guys are awesome so I know many of you can and do.


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## daniella5574 (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Great posts. I agree, same thing I deal with in counseling people. If I gave my opinion or said what I wanted to or what *I* would of done differently to some- I would not be developing a good counseling relationship. People do get defensive and when that happens, they no longer listen to you or value your opinion.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

My feeling is that if you don't want suggestions then don't post issues you're having on a public forum. 
That's what it's for.
The title of this thread started with "Please help". That's a pretty clear indication the OP was looking for suggestions in my mind. 
If there was nastiness on this thread as there has been on too many others then I'd feel differently. I think everyone tried to help, and pretty respectfully as well.


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## mpfsmf573 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

TNGSD said it there is a differance between judgemnetal and advice I simply felt the advice for this poor women was to judgemental instead of advice which we should of waited and see what the outcome. I agree and have learned from the past that the pack is better next to and with there owners but like I said every one has a different circumstance and maybe you don't like what you hear it can be a two way street.


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## scannergirl (Feb 17, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

And I absolutely will not argue that point. Being judgemental accomplishes nothing. I have jumped in here when I DID see it because I do not feel it has any functional purpose at all. It just hurts feelings. 
I just fail to see it here. I know the OP felt attacked, but that does not mean anyone who posted was out of line, it just means the OP felt attacked. It could just as easily be a serious oversensitivity on the OP's part. And I do not mean that to be judgemental- Lord knows I've had my moments........
Truthfully I did not see any judgement, attacking or other maliciousness in any of the replies. I saw a lot of support, a lot of thanking for rescuing the dog, a lot of suggestions for continued help for the dog so he could live a good life..........
I guess I just fail to see the problem that caused the OP to feel so badly about things. And just because the OP feels bad does not mean anybody did anything wrong.

BTW- If I ask any of you for your opinion please give it. Don't worry about my feelings, or offending me. If I ask it's because I want to do right by my dog, and my feelings come SECOND to the welfare of my dog. If I didn't want to know I wouldn't ask, and if I feel any response is harsh or judgemental I'll address it. We'll hash it out, and hopefully everybody will learn something.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I pm'd the op and asked that she give this great forum another chance, I have read opinions (over the year + I have been here)that I don't agree with and just take it as that...but for the most part, the people here are for the dogs and our love for them is more important than someones hurt feelings. They don't want to hear criticism, take it personally and leave without giving the dogs interest a thought.


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## barbprzyby (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

I want to thank everyone who posts or has posted an answer on this forum. It is the knowledge I have gained from those who know what they are talking about that makes this a worthwhile place to spend my time. I have six grown human kids, and I know the timing of information can make or break it's being recieved. However when someone needs vital and accurate solutions, there aren't a whole lot of options that will resolve the issues. Feelings are not information and preventing more damage to an already confused/abused dog is obviously what you guys have as priority. Everyone has their own way of saying things, and I appreciate all the comments I read here. Some make me laugh and some make me cry. Some people that get angry- should be crying instead. I say fire away!


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## bpierce (Aug 10, 2007)

*Re: Please help - I'm in over my head.*

Great post Sinclair! I have horses and dogs and my horses are outside but do have constant shelter but they also don't have that desire and need to be with us. I used to make my dogs stay out unless the weather was adverse because my husband didn't like them in the house. I started letting them in more and more against his wishes until he realized how very much they just wanted to give him that wonderful unconditional love they have and their desire to be near him. Now all five are inside when we are but outside when we are as well. I too have taken offense at some of the posts here but have also learned an enormous amount from most of them, not just the ones on this thread. I think most people on this board realize that these animals are a life long committment, good or bad, but we also know that many people don't feel the same way. I hope the OP is able to find someone to adopt Adonis because it does sound like he really wants to be close to his person. I can understand how emotions run deep on these boards but I do hope we all can remember to keep sarcasm in check and offer advice in a positive manner because like it or not, many people will never see their dogs in the light most of us do,.


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