# Head petting



## dhaney81 (Nov 5, 2014)

I know some dogs are uncomfortable with people petting their head. I'm not sure if it's a dominance thing or what but I'd like to get my puppy more comfortable with it, if possible. My 6 month old will let me pet his head, but sometimes he'll roll over on his back or tilt his head back sometimes basically saying "pet me somewhere else". 

My brothers dog an Australian shepherd, will lure people in with his head and then immediately turn around once you start petting him so you can only scratch his butt/back. What is it with the head petting, and how can I get my dog more comfortable with it?


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## nb1422 (Dec 23, 2014)

dhaney81 said:


> I know some dogs are uncomfortable with people petting their head. I'm not sure if it's a dominance thing or what but I'd like to get my puppy more comfortable with it, if possible. My 6 month old will let me pet his head, but sometimes he'll roll over on his back or tilt his head back sometimes basically saying "pet me somewhere else".
> 
> My brothers dog an Australian shepherd, will lure people in with his head and then immediately turn around once you start petting him so you can only scratch his butt/back. What is it with the head petting, and how can I get my dog more comfortable with it?


nah i don't believe all that dominance stuff, i have 6 and half month old GSD, he lets me do whatever i want to him, he even lets me give him a kiss on his little nose. I think its more about the dog's personality. My dog doesn't let anyone else touch him, regardless of how much i socialize, my point is there are some things that are just ingrained into a dogs personality and you can't change it. He's rolling on his back because he feels comfortable around you! that's a good thing!


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I think he is trying to direct you to other spots. My girl loves to have her chin scratched and will lift her head for me to get to it. Of course she loves the butt scratch as all dogs do as well. She will roll over on her back when she wants her belly rubbed. As long as nothing has happened to scare the pup so he is afraid of hands over his head, I think it is just a stage he is going through. Has nothing to do with dominance, just a puppy that knows where it would feel good to get scratched at the time.


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

pyratemom said:


> I think he is trying to direct you to other spots........As long as nothing has happened to scare the pup so he is afraid of hands over his head, I think it is just a stage he is going through. Has nothing to do with dominance, just a puppy that knows where it would feel good to get scratched at the time.


I agree. Some dogs do not feel comfortable with hands going over their head... Scratch your dog under the mouth instead. Enjoy


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

So do you like it when someone stands over you and pats the top of your head? I'm not sure why we expect dogs to like this. Cheeks and beneath the ears, under the chin, the chest -- all better locations according to my two.


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## dhaney81 (Nov 5, 2014)

I get it. I just like petting the top of his head for some reason and I was curious if it could be a dominance or trust thing. I was just hoping to break that in him and maybe make him more comfortable with it, but he's still really young and not that worried about getting pets. Maybe he'll come around.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

dhaney81 said:


> I know some dogs are uncomfortable with people petting their head. I'm not sure if it's a dominance thing or what but I'd like to get my puppy more comfortable with it, if possible. My 6 month old will let me pet his head, but sometimes he'll roll over on his back or tilt his head back sometimes basically saying "pet me somewhere else".
> 
> My brothers dog an Australian shepherd, will lure people in with his head and then immediately turn around once you start petting him so you can only scratch his butt/back. What is it with the head petting, and how can I get my dog more comfortable with it?


I hope to volunteer with my dog doing therapy dog work someday, so I did work on her with both head petting and hugs (she didn't like either, but she might need to tolerate them). I didn't force the issue by doing it all the time, but I tried to gradually get her more comfortable with it.

For the head petting, I didn't let strangers reach over the head and would give them the same, "Uhhh-uh!" I would give the dog if she was nosing around the trash can. I had pretty rigid instructions for how they approached her: Wait for me to put her in a sit, approach calmly, let her sniff you, and then don't reach over her head. If they couldn't follow those instructions, we just walked away. (I know I hurt at least one little kid's feelings but oh well. If you can't follow directions, you're out of luck.)

When I petted her, I was careful to watch her signals and not push too hard. I would slowly migrate from the side to the top from behind and got her used to that first. Lots of praise when she allowed it. As she got more comfortable, I'd pair a head-on reach by one hand with a treat given by the other hand. This was all taking place from ages 2-7 months or so. My husband and I were the only people allowed to reach over her head EVER, and we didn't even do it as a rule. We still don't default to that.

It took time and patience to get her accustomed to it, but now at nearly 11 months old, she will tolerate it for the most part. I've only see her deny one person recently, and this was the first person in about 6 months I've seen her seem to dislike. She quietly backed away from the woman and sat a little back from heel position, out of reach. I made the "she doesn't like head petting" the excuse to try and spare the lady's feelings (she seemed like a nice person), but the dog just really didn't take to her.


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

dhaney81 said:


> My brothers dog an Australian shepherd, will lure people in with his head and then immediately turn around once you start petting him so you can only scratch his butt/back. What is it with the head petting, and how can I get my dog more comfortable with it?


This made me laugh. Maybe this is an australian shepherd thing. My Aussie used to nudge us with his nose and then immediately give us his butt.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Rangers_mom said:


> This made me laugh. Maybe this is an australian shepherd thing. My Aussie used to nudge us with his nose and then immediately give us his butt.


My Australian cattle dog does the same. He would also sleep with his butt backed into my face. The Aussie gene, I guess.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Everyone who owns or is around dogs should read this article:

http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/sites/default/files/Bark 2005 Winter The Right Touch.pdf


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

I think if you're serious about doing therapy dog work in the future, it might be a good idea to consult a good trainer. I'm just thinking a professional could give you ideas as to how to get your dog to tolerate head petting. Or even let you know if your dog has the temperament for that job.
I really don't know for sure but it makes sense that a therapy dog should be ok with being petted on the head.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> I hope to volunteer with my dog doing therapy dog work someday, so I did work on her with both head petting and hugs (she didn't like either, but she might need to tolerate them). I didn't force the issue by doing it all the time, but I tried to gradually get her more comfortable with it.


Well with the expectation that I will tick off the folks with the "mythical" people loving GSD's!  A GSD would be my last choice for a therapy dog?? 

The same qualities that make them the go to dog for protection work, K9, LE,also make them "problematic" for therapy work "in my view."

Times change people change dogs change...you no longer routinely see, seeing eye dog GSD's, yes they are out there for blind people that can handle them but by and large that job goes to labs and goldens!

Every GSD I've met has been like my guy..."great to see you..when are you leaving??" Not saying you can't do what you want with the dog you have...just saying he doesn't sound like the best candidate for this job?


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Sunflowers said:


> Everyone who owns or is around dogs should read this article:
> 
> http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/sites/default/files/Bark 2005 Winter The Right Touch.pdf


I just read the article.
And you are right, "everyone" should read it.
My pup allows head petting and SEEMS ok with it. But he's very laid back and tolerant.
After reading the article, I'm 100% sure he'd prefer not to be petted/patted on his head. It's probably a natural human reaction to pat a dog on the head.
But it HAS to be unsettling to dogs. 
Thanks for the heads-up and for the link.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Findlay said:


> I just read the article.
> And you are right, "everyone" should read it.
> My pup allows head petting and SEEMS ok with it. But he's very laid back and tolerant.
> After reading the article, I'm 100% sure he'd prefer not to be petted/patted on his head. It's probably a natural human reaction to pat a dog on the head.
> ...


You are very welcome. I learned this from our breeder, who immediately redirected my son when the first thing he wanted to do was pat Hans on the head as soon as he saw him.

Very few people know this, I think, and yes, our first instinct is to pat them on the head. Several veterinarians have done this to Hans, as I cringed. He is stressed enough at the vet's office, without having to endure pats on the head, on top of everything else. They, of all people, should know not to do that to their patients.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Findlay said:


> I think if you're serious about doing therapy dog work in the future, it might be a good idea to consult a good trainer. I'm just thinking a professional could give you ideas as to how to get your dog to tolerate head petting. Or even let you know if your dog has the temperament for that job.
> I really don't know for sure but it makes sense that a therapy dog should be ok with being petted on the head.


That's me, not the OP, and my dog has learned to be fine with it.

I won't have her evaluated until she's 18-24 months old. The clubs I've researched for those classes won't evaluate a dog until 18 months of age. I'm just trying to "domesticate" and socialize her while keeping some of those things in mind.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Well with the expectation that I will tick off the folks with the "mythical" people loving GSD's!  A GSD would be my last choice for a therapy dog??
> 
> The same qualities that make them the go to dog for protection work, K9, LE,also make them "problematic" for therapy work "in my view."
> 
> ...


Again, I'm not the OP. My dog is very calm and great with kids and tends to be pretty friendly. I'm just laughing at your post. My dog isn't super empathic so far and that's the one yellow flag I'm seeing but she's also young and I'll wait to see how her personality develops. She is also an American show line dog so I'm guessing that the K9 and LE point is moot here. You're funny.


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## Findlay (Jan 8, 2015)

Even if a dog's not a good fit to be a therapy dog, there are a lot of other fun training options out there for dogs and their people.
The MSPCA near Boston offers beginner programs in Nose Work, Obility (learning the pre- skills for agility), Rally Obedience...so many options.
Their programs begin with puppy socialization, all levels of obedience...all the way to Agility Competition.
Also Canine Good Citizen which is (i think) a pre-req to Therapy Dog Traning.
So. the local SPCA seems to be a good resource in finding what discipline best fits your dog.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> Again, I'm not the OP..


I understood your not the OP. I just wanted more info 'the people friendly GSD' theme is actually a subject that does not get a lot of discussion here.

Most folks that have such a GSD, just pass of it off Like "oh yes they are "all" like that!

My Boxer (Struddell) would have been an excellent Therapy dog...once she was taught that "no you can't be licking people!" 

And as to your underlying "assumption"... good call! 


I have a WL OSD GSD his people theory "work" was me teaching him not to bite the crap out of JQP!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Chip, you are making me want a boxer. LOL.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Chip18 said:


> I understood your not the OP. I just wanted more info 'the people friendly GSD' theme is actually a subject that does not get a lot of discussion here.
> 
> Most folks that have such a GSD, just pass of it off Like "oh yes they are "all" like that!
> 
> ...


Guess "I" did not understand oops! :blush:

But I like my questions nontheless.


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## dmom (Jul 2, 2009)

I have a 15 month old while he very social when I give him the okay and enjoys attention from people I have noticed that when people go to pet him on top his head he often will follow their hand with his mouth. I direct people to pet him under the chin behind his ears or on his side. He loves it when my husband and I rub his head, face and ears and does the buffalo moan when we cuddle in.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> Chip, you are making me want a boxer. LOL.


 Oh I love my Boxers! Different level of challenge than a GSD! Not a dog in the top of the doggie IQ charts! 

American Boxers tend to be verysoft dogs! A harsh "voice command" can crush there spirit! But you develope the "touch" and your Golden!
Basically a very "goofy" dog!


The "Clown of the Dog World" they earn that title...they keep you on your toes! That is pretty much the appeal ..."life is a cabaret my friends" is how they live! Your job if you own a Boxer...is to keep up! But...also a lot of health problems and that can lead to "soul crushing heartbreak!!!"

If your luck...you can have a Boxer for 10 years! My Struddell barely made it to that point! DM struck at year 8 and it was 24/7 care for two years until finally I had to let her go! 

Many of them drop dead in the 3 to 7 year range (heart problems)! But, DM is rampant in Boxers, 70% of breeding pairs carry the DM gene! It takes two pairs for the disease to develop! I have only found one breeder that has two clear breeding pairs!

I asked a breeder,why breed dogs that carry the DM gene at all?? They said if you eliminate the Boxers with the DM gene you eliminate 70% of the available dogs??

Despite that I am on the hunt for my next (White Boxeranother issue in itself!) once you have had a Boxer in your life...you get it!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I seem to be in the minority, but Newlie like it! Well, he likes what I do which may not really be petting. I think of petting like small pats on the head whereas what I do is make little circles on the top of his head with my fingers. He butts his head against me to get me to do it. I also use my fingers to stroke the underside of his legs and he just zones out. The largest majority of this is at before he goes to sleep, he mostly wants to play during the day.

What Newlie doesn't like is to be thumped on his sides. When I am out with him, he is such a pretty dog, alot of times guys will come over to ineract with him. That's OK, he likes people and is fine with their attention. But as a typical guy thing they sometimes do something like "How you doing, buddy?" and thump him on the side and he lets out a big loud bark to let them know he doesn't like it. I don't know maybe he's gotten used to my gentler touch...


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

dhaney81 said:


> My brothers dog an Australian shepherd, will lure people in with his head and then immediately turn around once you start petting him so you can only scratch his butt/back.


Just saw it! Went to visit friends who have a herder dog I have know for years now. It's an ingrained trait! 

That is exactly what she does!(Dominant dog)  It's odd but I'm pretty sure it's just a breed characteristic!


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

newlie said:


> I seem to be in the minority, but Newlie like it! Well, he likes what I do which may not really be petting. I think of petting like small pats on the head whereas what I do is make little circles on the top of his head with my fingers. .


Nah, that is not patting the head. You're doing it the right way, little circles.

Google Tellington touch. When I use that technique on Hans, he relaxes so much that his eyes roll in the back of his head LOL.


If people insist on going for the head, massage the base of the ears. That is much better than the dreaded head pats.


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## brembo (Jun 30, 2009)

Mine like my hands on them, pretty much in any way. I massage the top of their heads, working my way up there from the chin. Allie likes for me to rub the orbit of her eyes with an open palm, I have to hold her head up with my other hand or she flops over, utterly relaxed. 

I don't pat their heads tho, unless it's to annoy them while playing rough.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Chip18 said:


> Well with the expectation that I will tick off the folks with the "mythical" people loving GSD's!  A GSD would be my last choice for a therapy dog??
> 
> The same qualities that make them the go to dog for protection work, K9, LE,also make them "problematic" for therapy work "in my view."
> 
> ...


One of the best therapy dogs I know was a long coated German Shepherd named Sagwu (means chosen one in Cherokee). He went to all the major hospitals in Virginia and was welcomed by so many. He was trained by my trainer and his owner lived in the Keys part time. He was also trained to do guard work and scent work for fun. Sagwu sadly died one week after my Pyrate did. They were good friends too. The owner now has Rosie, whom he hopes will follow in Sagwu's paw prints as she gets older.


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## WolfsOwner (Jan 16, 2015)

Hmm I've never heard of the dominance issue. My girl, almost 9 months, lets me and my fiancé touch her anywhere, but she lets me kiss her all over her face. In fact, when I get home she hops on the bed so I can love on her for 5 minutes, haha. When my fiancé or someone else tries that she isn't into it.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

WolfsOwner said:


> Hmm I've never heard of the dominance issue. My girl, almost 9 months, lets me and my fiancé touch her anywhere, but she lets me kiss her all over her face. In fact, when I get home she hops on the bed so I can love on her for 5 minutes, haha. When my fiancé or someone else tries that she isn't into it.


You've done well and most likely you have a balanced dog and you have good management skills! Dominated dogs are pretty easy to identify, after the fact not so much as puppies for most...except to breeders all and those that know what to look for! For most folks... the puppies all seem to be the same!

Also if you aren't adding a Dominant high rank drive GSD to a two pack that already has a Dominant Dog...you can "kinda skate!

Couple of links:
(Elements of Temperament, by Joy Tiz )
Leerburg | Dealing with the Dominant Dog

Dominant dog I understood but the high rank drive was news to me??? Added a whole new" element of ferocity!!!

Two puppies here...also a bad idea:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-owners-more-than-one-shepherd-household.html


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

pyratemom said:


> One of the best therapy dogs I know was a long coated German Shepherd named Sagwu (means chosen one in Cherokee). He went to all the major hospitals in Virginia and was welcomed by so many. He was trained by my trainer and his owner lived in the Keys part time. He was also trained to do guard work and scent work for fun. Sagwu sadly died one week after my Pyrate did. They were good friends too. The owner now has Rosie, whom he hopes will follow in Sagwu's paw prints as she gets older.


Thanks for sharing and for posting! I knew the "good" dogs were out there and yes the GSD is the..do everything dog!

But the numbers seem to go the other way for "service" dogs! GSD's just aren't worth the "hassle" when it comes to certain categories of service dogs. The protection thing... handler gets tense, so does the dog! Some people with disabilities can still handle a GSD...most cannot hence, Labs and Goldens are pushing them out!

But by and large there are not a lot of "my dog loves people and other dogs so I have no issues threads" the folks without issues...don't need our help!


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## gsforever (Apr 16, 2013)

The other day had a woman say that if strangers want to pet your dog, they should pet on side of head and not stand overtop of dog, my dog does not mind but reading the link posted has made me re think about it, good article...great forum !


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## Rangers_mom (May 16, 2013)

Okay, better late than never. So I tried petting Ranger on the head and he seemed to like it, but maybe that is because it was a new thing that I don't usually do. I stroked the top of his head and he just looked up at me with those "puss in Boots" eyes (the big saucer eyes of the cat in Shrek).


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## misterW (Jan 25, 2011)

Just pet him somewhere else. My girl occasionally likes the head, but mostly elsewhere.


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## Cobe914 (Sep 29, 2014)

Head pets are pretty unnatural for dogs. If a dog is making contact with the top of another dog's head, or the back of their neck, it's in most cases dominant or threatening, such as a "T" greeting (when a dog places their head over top another dog). Instinctually it makes sense for a dog to be uncomfortable.
I worked for a facility that ran a "how to say hello to a dog" program for children, to teach them how to properly approach and greet a dog. In this course, they were taught to give dogs a short, gentle pet on the chest. Most dogs are just more comfortable that way.


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

Scratching them right between the eyes seems to have always been a favorite of my GSDs over the years. I have certainly seen head shy dogs but never had one.

SuperG


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