# Using Reconcile?



## joshbalt (Aug 12, 2012)

Hi, I have a 5 year old male German Shepherd (had him from 8 weeks old) that has problems with aggression that seem both territorial and fear based. The fear based aggression has been evident since puppyhood as he has always had fear of pretty much anyone outside a select group of people (reacted to stranger approach with fierce barking) even though he has undergone extensive training and socialization. He has actually been in lavish dog daycare situations since I have owned him without any problems, the most recent of which tried helping him by taking him out in dense public situations. Despite all this his basic character has not changed and he continues to lunge at people in public at times (they are acting friendly but invade his "personal space") even if they are offering treats. He has a history of two human bites (one on a trainer I took him to for the aggression issues) and is a large dog, about 105lb. He is pretty much unsocializable with other dogs in public (which is ironic since in the dog daycare situations he is perfectly fine).

Now I am strongly considering putting him on an SSRI, probably Reconcile because it is a chewable once a day tablet, to see if it helps reduce his tendency to trigger and also more generally with his fear based issues.

Does anyone have experience with using SSRIs like Reconcile? I also welcome any comments or questions.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

joshbalt said:


> Hi, I have a 5 year old male German Shepherd (had him from 8 weeks old) that has problems with aggression that seem both territorial and fear based. The fear based aggression has been evident since puppyhood as he has always had fear of pretty much anyone outside a select group of people (reacted to stranger approach with fierce barking) even though he has undergone extensive training and socialization. He has actually been in lavish dog daycare situations since I have owned him without any problems, the most recent of which tried helping him by taking him out in dense public situations. This was far beyond his threshold and should never have happened. A HA dog in dense public situations could have ended so badly.
> 
> 
> Despite all this his basic character has not changed and he continues to lunge at people in public at times (they are acting friendly but invade his "personal space") even if they are offering treats. He has a history of two human bites (one on a trainer I took him to for the aggression issues) and is a large dog, about 105lb. Has your dog been conditioned to a muzzle? If not, a basket muzzle would allow him good air flow, room to pant, drink and take treats. Your dog should always be on the other side of you away from the person, placing you as the barrier. Train him to sit to the back of you, again you as the barrier. His threshold is low, so even a hand raising to offer a treat can cross his line. With 2 bites, your goal is to protect your dog and keep him safe from himself.
> ...


Woolf is on 1/2 the recommended dose of Reconcile for his weight. He is a FA DA/ha dog, ultra alert, complete inability to relax. Using Reconcile allowed his brain to slow down enough so he could process the training. Then with the training he is receiving, the improvement is amazing. People that he has lunged at with full intent before, he now goes to for scratches, laid his head in their lap for ear scratches etc. This next week we are reducing the dose amount more. 

Side effects can be appetite (lack of), nausea, in some cases it can have the complete opposite effect - increased aggression. Regular blood work has to be done, some cases it can affect the thyroid.

The key ingredient is still training, Reconcile without the training isn't going to help. I wouldn't recommend it being used without a behaviorist involved. I'm lucky that Woolf's vet and the behaviorist stay in good contact and keep each other updated on his progress. 

The training method we found that worked best with Woolf is BAT. BAT Ahimsa Dog Blog Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA and on BowWowFlix


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## joshbalt (Aug 12, 2012)

I do have a basket muzzle for him though he is not really conditioned to use it. One of the trainers had me buy it so he could have it on during training (which didn't go well). I manage him in public by simply avoiding close contact with strangers or dogs. He doesn't lunge at people in public unless he is being forced to interact with them somehow, since fear is the driving issue with him, trying to drive people that seem threatening to him away is his goal. 

With other dogs (as opposed to people) he is on high alert with every dog he sees (outside his daycare walking experience) and I am forced to avoid all interactions.

I have a vet appt for him this week and will likely start him on Reconcile, I hope for a positive experience like yours. I understand that training is required as well but so far the many many hours of training have been largely ineffective.


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## Twyla (Sep 18, 2011)

joshbalt said:


> I do have a basket muzzle for him though he is not really conditioned to use it. One of the trainers had me buy it so he could have it on during training (which didn't go well). I manage him in public by simply avoiding close contact with strangers or dogs. He doesn't lunge at people in public unless he is being forced to interact with them somehow, since fear is the driving issue with him, trying to drive people that seem threatening to him away is his goal. At this point in his life, it is your job to protect him, including having him wear a muzzle when there is the smallest chance of interactions with humans and/or dogs. FA dogs are unpredictable as you know. What has been triggering him - 'being forced to interact somehow' - could change tomorrow and include scents, types of clothing. When Woolf was at this stage, yes he had to be worked in the vicinity of people but it was always on the boundaries with distance. If it was an event that was quick changing, someone was with us to be another set of eyes and keep the area we were working in clear of people just accidentally walking through.
> 
> With other dogs (as opposed to people) he is on high alert with every dog he sees (outside his daycare walking experience) and I am forced to avoid all interactions.
> 
> I have a vet appt for him this week and will likely start him on Reconcile, I hope for a positive experience like yours. I understand that training is required as well but so far the many many hours of training have been largely ineffective.


Woolf and I went through 2 trainers with no results. The 2nd one has an excellent reputation of working with aggressive dogs, but still without results. The behaviorist we go to now went through varying methods of training with us including BAT that I referenced in earlier post and we were getting no where. Once he started on Reconcile, he wasn't in a constant state of alert and able to relax some, but given the opportunity he would still bark and lunge for the same reasons as before. The earlier training didn't make a difference, he wasn't able to process it at the time. We started over with BAT, from the first session the difference could be seen. He was able to process what he was learning and it stuck.

I could just leave it with him on Reconcile and no further training, but then I would have a dog just as dangerous as before. He will always have to be managed, but I am not having to wonder if the next person will be a trigger all the time now. 

Good luck with what you decide to do.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

You have a large dog that has bitten a human not once but twice and you take this dog out the door without a muzzle on?? I'm sorry, but this is VERY irresponsible. You CANNOT control every facet of this dog's interaction in the world and when someone gets seriously hurt it's too late. Not to mention it's likely you'll be sued and the dog will be PTS. It's your decision to have a dog that has bitten people. No one else needs to pay for that decision so please, please muzzle your dog before it goes out the door! If the dog is OK during doggie daycare then that's great... but everywhere other than home and there your dog should be muzzled for the protection of everyone else. (I've had a dog that bit, and I realize it's not fun but you have to consider everyone else first)


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## joshbalt (Aug 12, 2012)

Jag said:


> You have a large dog that has bitten a human not once but twice and you take this dog out the door without a muzzle on?? I'm sorry, but this is VERY irresponsible. You CANNOT control every facet of this dog's interaction in the world and when someone gets seriously hurt it's too late. Not to mention it's likely you'll be sued and the dog will be PTS. It's your decision to have a dog that has bitten people. No one else needs to pay for that decision so please, please muzzle your dog before it goes out the door! If the dog is OK during doggie daycare then that's great... but everywhere other than home and there your dog should be muzzled for the protection of everyone else. (I've had a dog that bit, and I realize it's not fun but you have to consider everyone else first)


I hear what you're saying about the biting risk and I do take pains to make sure he never has the opportunity. The biting situations (both of which occurred more than 3 years ago) were not public interaction issues but one with a trainer who purposely tested his demeanor in his initial training session and made a really bad choice to then take him from without any restraints on, and the second was with a drunk person in a yard who also made some really stupid choices which I won't go into. The second trainer he saw has worked with him extensively in public situations and he has never had an issue in 2 years of daily public work. In fact when he has stayed with the trainer (who also has a dog walking/boarding service) he never displays any issues whatsoever (with dogs or humans) they only seem to occur with me.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

joshbalt said:


> I manage him in public by simply avoiding close contact with strangers or dogs. He doesn't lunge at people in public unless he is being forced to interact with them somehow, since fear is the driving issue with him, trying to drive people that seem threatening to him away is his goal.
> 
> With other dogs (as opposed to people) he is on high alert with every dog he sees (outside his daycare walking experience) and I am forced to avoid all interactions.


*This* is why I said that. This paired with 2 people already bitten. I really *thought* I had "good control" of my dog, also. I thought I had controlled every opportunity. I really, really did. Until she bit *again*. I could blame the woman who I told not to pet her (she did anyway) or the teen who didn't listen to me when I told her my dog would bite... or any other person she attempted to take out but luckily *only* lunged at. However, it's not their fault. It's not their problem. You simply cannot be 100% sure that a child won't suddenly run up or that a dog won't suddenly run up. I feel like I'm talking to me way back when... *So far* your dog has only bit under certain circumstances. However, a successful bite builds confidence... and your dog could change its game plan without notifying you. Are you really willing to risk everything you have, your dog's life and possibly the life of a child or someone else's dog? We can't see into their minds. All we have to go on is what they show us and past behaviors. No one likes to muzzle their dogs. I think I hated it more than my dog! Please reconsider. I'd hate for something awful to happen and then you're left holding all the responsibility and the guilt. It's a terrible feeling... and any 'accident' is totally preventable. I understand people wanting to go to any lengths to try to rehab a dog that bites. However, the reality is that you have a dog that's good with you... that loves you... that is a danger to everyone but you each time you step out your front door. You're working with this dog so it has a shot at a good life. One attack on the "wrong" person or person's dog, and it would all be for nothing. Even if you don't believe anything else you ever read, believe this. It's not to upset you... I'm simply worried that the denial will lead to some awful consequences. I spent years in blissful denial. My girl was so sweet in the house with us. I couldn't rectify that with the behaviors that came on suddenly and without rhyme or reason toward (select) others. Keeping her away did not work all of the time. I wish you good luck. I hope this med will help!


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

I noticed you're in Emeryville. Have you tried training with Lisa Maze? She's my dog's trainer and helped my dog a whole lot with her fear issues, though she is not at the scale of fear as your dog.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

At this point, since you've tried everything else, I'd definitely try putting him on an SSRI. I have seen them work wonders on some animals.


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