# Growling / snapping when woken up..



## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

I was a active member here before, but lost my account after I switched jobs.

I purchased my last shepherd about 7 years ago he is my first Czech, and definitely my most people friendly one. 










Were active, and go on walks almost every day, this is him tonight 7 years later










Overall he is great, but has one behavior that has surfaced in the last year that I have been unable to detour.

If he is sleeping at night, and I wake him up. he goes into a weird phase for about 30 seconds to a minute where he will growl and sometimes snap. I have completely ignored the threats, and he always backs off and acts normal about a minute later. He has gone as far as snapping and mouthing my hand, but has never clamped down.

I just don't know what it is that I am doing wrong. What should I do to prevent this behavior?


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm 49 and grew up along side this breed. This is my third, and the others never once behaved this way.


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## Jen84 (Oct 19, 2020)

MKshep said:


> I was a active member here before, but lost my account after I switched jobs.
> 
> I purchased my last shepherd about 7 years ago he is my first Czech, and definitely my most people friendly one.
> 
> ...





MKshep said:


> I just don't know what it is that I am doing wrong. What should I do to prevent this behavior?


Don't wake him up anymore


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

MKshep said:


> I'm 49 and grew up along side this breed. This is my third, and the others never once behaved this way.


At 49, I behaved exactly this way. But my last and final wife trained me not to snap by giving me a treat first, before I woke up.


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## Biscuit (Mar 24, 2020)

Just to be clear; are you actually phyically waking the dog and he comes at you, or is the dog waking in your vicinity and come after you?


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## eddie1976E (Nov 7, 2010)

At 7 for a behavior like to surface is very strange and not likely a training issue or something behavior modification can address. Your dog hasn't presented this before, I would get a vet to look at him. Dogs don't wake up one day after 7 years and do something totally out of character like this.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

There’s a member here who ran into almost this exact same thing, but she doesn’t post anymore. 

Her male basically started “sundowning” around age 5 or so (to use the human term). He had to go back to sleeping in a crate.

Obviously you can try and avoid provoking the response, but If someone in the family accidentally tripped over the dog in the dark, it very likely would have ended in a bite. Extensive tests revealed zero medical changes in the dog.


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## Cat Mom Adopts German Boy (Jan 4, 2021)

herojig said:


> At 49, I behaved exactly this way. But my last and final wife trained me not to snap by giving me a treat first, before I woke up.


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## Kazel (Nov 29, 2016)

Definitely sounds like something genetic/health based. I do know there is something in several breeds they believe is linked to seizures (not sure if that is the confirmed cause or not) that causes very similar behavior. I've heard about it in malinois and GSDs, I think they're working on pinning down a genetic test in mals. Could also be some other things


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## Honey Maid (Dec 25, 2020)

Are you physically touching him to wake him, or are you using your voice? Sounds like you may be using your hand, shaking him awake? Just use your voice, maybe he's in pain wherever you touch him to wake him.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Are you physically waking him (touch) or just calling him if it's time to go out etc?
I don't physically wake my dogs ever but to be honest, it's rare to see them sleep deeply enough to be able to even approach them


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Brilliant minds and all that lol


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

I did not describe this as well as I should have. It only happens in the late evening, and when He gets woke up and asked to move. It does not happen most the time, but occasionally (Maybe a few times a month).

It sometimes happens if he is sleeping on the couch, and Is told to move. If he ignores the command I will pull on his collar to get him off. It has also happened a few times if he is sleeping on the floor, and I call him over or ask him to move.

Its like he wakes up and is in a weird phase, for about 30 seconds. Once he comes out of it he behaves completely normal.

When he is in this phase, he will fist growl after a command, and then when I grab his collar, he will either growl louder, and occasionally snap. When He does snap, he has never bit down hard, but will mouth my hand while growling after I grab his collar.

I haven't tried a treat. My guess is that would snap him out of the mindset right away, but I do not want to reward this behavior.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

I also wanted to add, is he never shows possessive behavior when awake. He will glady give me his toys, and I can even move his food bowl when he is eating. It only happens occasionally immediately after he is woken up.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Do you call his name before you touch him? It's a weird behavior change. I would try to wake him by calling his name and when he looks at you, reward him with a Good Boy! Then leave him alone. I personally would not start with treats in order not to make it a big deal for him. If it happens more frequently or with more intensity I would have his brain checked out by a veterinary behaviorist (Dog psychiatrist). I had a 7 year old dog change to aggression in fast progression and looking back he had several symptoms of Rabies vaccinosis. Story is too long to post here.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

wolfy dog said:


> Do you call his name before you touch him? It's a weird behavior change.


Yes I have tried that, and let him know its ok by saying he is a good boy. It doesn't matter what I say until he snaps out of it.

He is generally very passive, and not a dominate dog. My parents have a terrier that is 1/2 his size that I sometimes watch when they are out of town. He defers to the smaller dog, and will even give up his toys. 

If I play fetch with the two of them, he will run up to the toy, but always let the terrier bring it back to me.

Another time, a neighbors 8 month old male retriever pup ran into the back yard a few months ago. He never met the dog before, and instantly started playing with it.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I never touch my dogs when they are sleeping. My first dog as an adult was a different herding breed and he always woke up grouchy and snappy. I learned to always wake them by voice first. If you don’t want him on the couch, don’t let him get up there at all. It seems unfair and arbitrary to let him up sometimes at his discretion and then change your mind.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

Two best friends got to hang out tonight. They don't get to see each other every Friday night, but tonight I have them both. They each behaved on the nightly walk.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

The little guy has always been dominate, and 14 years old despite looking younger in this photo.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> I never touch my dogs when they are sleeping. My first dog as an adult was a different herding breed and he always woke up grouchy and snappy. I learned to always wake them by voice first. If you don’t want him on the couch, don’t let him get up there at all. It seems unfair and arbitrary to let him up sometimes at his discretion and then change your mind.


Lots of these snapping/growling/biting incidents seem to start with the dog on the couch or bed. 
Not judging or anything


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

WNGD said:


> Lots of these snapping/growling/biting incidents seem to start with the dog on the couch or bed.
> Not judging or anything


Yes, or messing with their food.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

LuvShepherds said:


> Yes, or messing with their food.


Yup.

All good things come from me because (surprise!) I own them all


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm making some headway.here on this issue.

I got more aggressive myself in trying to detour the behavior, and stopped being so nice. The instant he acts up, I started making him move immediately.

If he is on the floor and even growls, I make him move instantly, If he is on the couch, the instant he does not listen I grab his collar and pull him off.

I have not experienced this type of behavior before, and think I was just being too nice to him.

His behavior is getting better. I'm not being threatening or causing any harm. I'm just correcting the undesirable behavior much quicker than I have in the past.

Before I think he thought it was a negotiation, Now he starting to learn its not.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Congrats, you're getting it.
But it's not a matter of being too nice, it's setting fair expectations for him being a dog and you being the not-a-dog. Correct dog behavior or the appropriate consequences.

If more people would understand this from 8 weeks on instead of trying to be a littermate, we'd see far less issues with adolescent dogs imo.

Keep it up and other training will become easier too!


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

A more affirmative stance has defiantly made a quick change in behavior. I see my mistake now. He used to growl, and I tried to assure him it was okay and he was a good boy. That did not work.

It sent a mix message, and I understand that now. 

My previous shepherds never challenged my authority like this, and this was a new behavior for me to tackle. Instant response correction is best if anyone one else experiences this issue. 

No more "Good Boy", "Its Okay". If he growls, it gets corrected immediately, and It seems he understands that, and did not understand how I was handling it before.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

I thought I was doing the right thing by not showing fear, and talking nicely. But that did not work. He needed me to get in his face and physically move him the instant he rebelled.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Congrats, it doesn't have to be that difficult does it?
Dog just needs to know that you're serious once fair and reasonable expectations are established....but you determine what's fair and reasonable.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

In just a few weeks, I have now pretty much eliminated this behavior that became a concern of mine. I think I just got to lackluster in my discipline since he has been pretty good since he was a pup and never needed me to be as firm. 

My previous Shepherds never once challenged me like this and were very obedient.

This one challenged me, and I did not know immediately how to respond.

Just a note: I do allow him on the couch, and the others did not have the same rules. My slack in rules as I got older may have been the cause of the problem that developed.

He is still allowed on the couch, but if he is in my way and I want to watch a TV show he gets booted off immediately. No questions. 

He has also stopped growling at me when he is on the floor when "I tell him / not ask him to move". 

The two problems started occurring at the same time, and I did not recognize immediately that he was challenging my authority, and thought at first it was a sleep type thing.

The change in behavior showed up pretty fast, and was solved even faster though instant correction.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

He comes from working lines, and I made him a pet.

Here is one job he really likes and took it upon himself to pick up. This photo was taken last weekend. He is a avid almost obsest fisher-dog, and a fishermans best friend. When a line is out in the water, he watches it very intensely. As soon as there is a bite, he is he first to notice.

I never trained him to do this, its just something he figured out all by himself.










There is literally nothing else he would rather do!. If there is a line in the water, he wont leave it's side.

If a fishing bell is rung, he will find me in the yard and squeel with excitement and dash back to the rod. to let me know we have a fish.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

My last girl loved to go fishing. Kids would drop rock bass in a big laundry tub bucket and she would stick her head under water and take them out 

She loved when the kids fished off the dock and really loved going fishing in the Zodiac


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

MKshep said:


> He comes from working lines, and I made him a pet.
> 
> Here is one job he really likes and took it upon himself to pick up. This photo was taken last weekend. He is a avid almost obsest fisher-dog, and a fishermans best friend. When a line is out in the water, he watches it very intensely. As soon as there is a bite, he is he first to notice.
> 
> ...


LOL That is quite a job!


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

Just a little update.

The problem is now cured. A change in my behavior, directly impacted a change in his response. I have now gone over a month without this aggression showing up.

When it started, it was a fast change. Once I took the correct measures, it was also a fast response.

They are all different, and can challenge us handlers in different ways.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

He is going though some changes himself. In the past he was always submissive to my my dads pitbull mix. Now that that my fathers dog is getting older, he has stopped being submissive.

That's going to my next challenge. He used to always turn his head away, and about two weeks ago he stood up for himself, and the two got in a fight that needed to be separated. He pinned my dads dog to the ground, but did not cause much damage, just a small cut near its ear.

They have only fought once before, and that was when my dog was still a puppy probably under a year old.

I'm not yet sure if this just a natural progression of dominance,

With my last Shepard, In his older years my sister bought a Malinois pup, and once asked me to watch it while she went on vacation. I was really surprised that my older shepard backed off from what must have been a young 35 pound pup, and gave up his dominance without ever fighting.

More advice needed please.


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

On a side note: My sister had to re-home the Malinois at about 7 months of age, She purchased it at the pound as a young pup, and they told her it was a German Shepard like the dogs she also grew up with. The first time I saw it I told her I don't think its a Shepard. As it got older it was very clear what it was.

She had two young children, and it was just too much for her children to handle. So unfortunately she had to find a new home for it. She offered to give it to me for free, and was hoping I would accept. But I had two large dogs before about 10-20 years ago, (A German Shepard, and a Rottweiler) and did not want to take on that huge responsibility.

Her Malinois, was the biggest bundle of energy I have ever seen, (So Fast, So Agile). It was on a different level of activity than I'm used to.

The one time I watched it, it slipped out of the choke chain, and I chased that guy around town for well over a hour as a middle age man. It just took off in all directions and ran across a busy street three times. The only way I finally caught it, is a stranger gave me a granola bar to tempt it within reach. Once I got my hands on it I had 3/4mile walk back home. That loose dog almost killed me with a heart attack.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Any chance his hearing has deteriorated and is startled out of a deep sleep when you grab his collar?


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## MKshep (Apr 7, 2021)

Saphire, thanks for the reply. In further posts I responded on how that original issue was solved.


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## herojig (Apr 3, 2013)

MKshep said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> The problem is now cured. A change in my behavior, directly impacted a change in his response. I have now gone over a month without this aggression showing up.
> 
> ...


Always great to hear of success stories! what did u do different? 

Here is a strange one, just lasted an hour, after my wife gave Bernie a duck decoy toy, supposedly for chewing-type dogs, which he gutted within minutes. No surprise there, I keep tellin the wife. But the surprising behavior: he wasn't letting anyone near his tent without a low growl. Then he started howling and yipping for 30 minutes or so, like he was announcing his kill to the jungle. I don't think this half retriever would make a good bird dog...


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