# Are high priced dog foods all hype?



## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

My pup is 18 weeks old now. I've been feeding her a mix of Purina dog chow with about 25% Iams super puppy dry mixed in. This is what I can afford and what is readily available. I put a little 2% no flavor active culture yogurt on her morning meal (as recommended by my vet) and she gets about 1/2 lb cooked chicken per week. 

Reading all the hype about the very expensive dog foods and raw diets etc - I feel a little negligent with my pups diet, however her health is great, lots of energy and super shiny coat. 

I have fed all my dogs a similar diet thru the decades. My last GSD lived to 14.5, previous ones 13.5 and 13 years.

Why should I change? I know I have been blessed with healthy GSD's no allergies, no sensitive stomach, EPI etc, so unless there's something I'm missing - the special higher priced dog foods may benefit a dog with genetic defects but otherwise, regular food is fine. Is it all just hype?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I have two dogs on Victor. Check out their prices. Better food for about $1/lb.

Some of it is hype. Some of it is not. Just like everything else, you have to find the happy medium.

Purina and Iams is garbage as far as I'm concerned.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Jax08 said:


> I have two dogs on Victor. Check out their prices. Better food for about $1/lb.
> 
> Some of it is hype. Some of it is not. Just like everything else, you have to find the happy medium.
> 
> Purina and Iams is garbage as far as I'm concerned.


I understand that many think that these brands are garbage, I also see my dogs doing well on them. I was hoping for something a little more specific, such as any studies or personal experiences that those brands make dogs sick, shorten their lives or cause poor health as opposed to the specialty brands. This would be excluding dogs that do have genetic issues or allergies and must have special diets.

I have read all the articles I could find, but I see none that actually refer to studies that have documented any proof. They say the ingredients are crap but it ends there....


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

This is and has been a tough decision for me. I prefer to feed raw for their general diet and a good kibble once in a while. But then on the other hand: a friend of mine has a malinois who is 15 years old and has always been fed Iams. Never had major health issues and still goes on walks. I recently met a Bassett Hound of 18 years!!!! He was fed Purina all of his life. Another friend who had champion racing Whippets in the past had fed them Eukanuba. So go figure.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> Purina and Iams is garbage as far as I'm concerned.


I agree with this. 

I look at the ingredients for Iams, Purina, Eukanuba, Old Roy, Kibbles n Bits, etc. and compare them to ingredients in Fromm, Wellness CORE, Orijen, Evo, Acana, etc. I think about which one *I* would rather eat. 

I would definitely much rather eat the Fromm, Evo, etc. the ingredients are of higher quality and they are healthy ingredients.

I don't know what my dogs would look like if they ate crappy food because they have both been raised on a good quality kibble. They have gorgeous coats, no dandruff, not dull fur, their eyes are bright, they are healthy. They will always be fed high quality dog food.


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## Waldi (Jun 14, 2013)

One simple way is to see what comes out after feeding, I have noticed after started uisng Acana, the size of the poop has decresed (no corn fillers), coat looks pretty good and shiny. Bottom line is, check the ingredients and where ist is made.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I have five dogs. I feed Diamond High Energy. All my dogs get a raw chicken leg in the morning (except my Miniature Dachshund). At night, I feed the following amounts of kibble:

Golden Retriever: 1 1/2 cup
GSD: 2 Cups
Lacy: 1 Cup
Beagle: 1 Cup
Mini Doxie: 1/2 Cup

All of my dogs are in very good shape. All are healthy. No skin problems. No itching. Their waste is very minimal, and hardly no stench. 

So, I pay a little more. I feed less. I have healthy dogs. I clean up less poop. 
Win/Win


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

You must also look at the quality of the company. 

When people like Diamond, Nestle, P&G KEEP making the same mistakes over, and over again, constantly having to recall products... why trust them? Most food companies will have a recall, its a part of being in the food industry. But look at the way they handle them, the number they've had and what the causes are... and perhaps most importantly, how they deal with them once they've happened. 

Purina's got to be one of the worst in that respect, while I could say P&G, despite numerous recalls, has always been relatively responsible about them. Its all relative.

Or, besides the point entirely, why not just feed a food like Fromm Classic or Victor, which net about the same cost as either, come from vastly better companies, and don't use as many crappy ingredients.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

You also feed less with the better foods. That makes the cost not as high as just looking at the price of the bag.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

atravis said:


> You must also look at the quality of the company.
> 
> When people like Diamond, Nestle, P&G KEEP making the same mistakes over, and over again, constantly having to recall products... why trust them? Most food companies will have a recall, its a part of being in the food industry. But look at the way they handle them, the number they've had and what the causes are... and perhaps most importantly, how they deal with them once they've happened.
> 
> ...


That's a good point on the recalls however, I just checked the petfoodadvisor website. Many were "natural recipies", Diamond or Iams. Out of 96 recall listings Purina had 1 and Blue Buffalo had 1. Where are you getting your #'s on the excessive recalls on Purina?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Waldi said:


> One simple way is to see what comes out after feeding, I have noticed after started uisng Acana, the size of the poop has decresed (no corn fillers), coat looks pretty good and shiny. Bottom line is, check the ingredients and where ist is made.


Isn't this mostly a reduction of fiber which they need and does not harm them?


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

wolfy dog said:


> This is and has been a tough decision for me. I prefer to feed raw for their general diet and a good kibble once in a while. But then on the other hand: a friend of mine has a malinois who is 15 years old and has always been fed Iams. Never had major health issues and still goes on walks. I recently met a Bassett Hound of 18 years!!!! He was fed Purina all of his life. Another friend who had champion racing Whippets in the past had fed them Eukanuba. So go figure.


I've seen the same. So far, it sounds like a personal preference. Like the difference between having a burrito or a steak for people. I understand less volume and less bulk with dog food, but that is just a convenience.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> I've seen the same. So far, it sounds like a personal preference. Like the difference between having a burrito or a steak for people. I understand less volume and less bulk with dog food, but that is just a convenience.


Do you know anything about nutrition?

Bioavailability ?

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...nd-healthiest-diet-for-pet-cats-and-dogs.aspx
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/karen-becker-choose-dog-food-1/


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> Do you know anything about nutrition?
> 
> Bioavailability ?
> 
> ...


I see that you are a fan of Dr Becker, thank you for the links to her site. I have seen them before. How do you explain the millions of healthy dogs that live long lives that are not on a RAW diet?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think you can choose to feed your dog the Purina and Iams, but why try to push buttons belonging to the people that choose to feed RAW and "premium" brands? 

Some of the low-end companies have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into producing better quality foods based on public education and outcry (like rancid meats, euthanized dogs and cats being used in the feed [not a current practice], dead and down animals etc.) 

Some of us don't want to feed our dog some of the ingredients in these foods. That is not hype, that is making an informed choice. If you are happy, that is fine.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

I know that I'll never feed Purina to my dogs. My mom bought Purina and fed it to our beagle when I was growing up. It caused her to go blind from SARDS at the age of 3.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

Stonevintage said:


> I understand that many think that these brands are garbage, I also see my dogs doing well on them. I was hoping for something a little more specific, such as any studies or personal experiences that those brands make dogs sick, shorten their lives or cause poor health as opposed to the specialty brands. This would be excluding dogs that do have genetic issues or allergies and must have special diets.
> 
> I have read all the articles I could find, but I see none that actually refer to studies that have documented any proof. They say the ingredients are crap but it ends there....


Iams and Eukanuba used to be a decent food, I fed it to my Siberian Huskies for 10 years. Proctor and Gamble purchased the company and shortky after all 5 of my dogs fell apart. I used to sled my dogs in the winter months and during that time I would feed Eukanuba, changing to Iams in spring/summer. 
Proctor and Gamble wanted more profit, changed formulas by reducing quality ingredients and replacing with fillers such as Sorghum. My dogs coats became dull, stools large and energy levels dropped to the point they could not run a full 4 mile trail....no energy. All this with a breed that tends to do well on most foods.

Crap food!!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

jocoyn said:


> I think you can choose to feed your dog the Purina and Iams, but why try to push buttons belonging to the people that choose to feed RAW and "premium" brands?
> 
> Some of the low-end companies have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into producing better quality foods based on public education and outcry (like rancid meats, euthanized dogs and cats being used in the feed [not a current practice], dead and down animals etc.)
> 
> Some of us don't want to feed our dog some of the ingredients in these foods. That is not hype, that is making an informed choice. If you are happy, that is fine.


I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons. All of the comments thus far are questions I raised myself when trying to decide what to feed this pup. If you read my original post, you will see that I was asking for information from anyone that could point me to comparative nutritional studies or personal experiences with the higher and lower quality dog foods. 

My pup will be 6 months old soon and I need to do as much nutritional research as possible to decide what her regular diet will be. I am not sure which comment upset you. This is a controversial subject to be sure and I am not trying to upset anyone. 

RAW is one of the first diets I looked at. That's why I became familiar with the Dr Becker videos. It is not possible for me to provide a RAW diet to my pup. I am not against upgrading her food if I can read a study (by a neutral 3rd party) that shows it is superior for the health of the dog. I want to read the studies and trials so I can discuss them with my vet on our next visit in 2 weeks.

As the moderator, are you aware of any sites that I could look at that do comparative studies of the different foods as to long term health? Have the ingredients changed a lot in the Purina products in the last few years? (That would negate the fact that my previous dogs did well on their product)


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> This is and has been a tough decision for me. I prefer to feed raw for their general diet and a good kibble once in a while. But then on the other hand: a friend of mine has a malinois who is 15 years old and has always been fed Iams. Never had major health issues and still goes on walks. I recently met a Bassett Hound of 18 years!!!! He was fed Purina all of his life. Another friend who had champion racing Whippets in the past had fed them Eukanuba. So go figure.


Stonevintage, I want to add that I would not use this as a reason to ever, even consider going to these crappy brands.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you. This is the kind of info I need. I was not aware that Iams changed their recipe. I feed only the "Iams super puppy" and none of their other products. I found it on the petfoodadvisor site and they actually scored just this specific Iams product with a "B". Even they were suprised at the quality according to their review.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Stonevintage said:


> That's a good point on the recalls however, I just checked the petfoodadvisor website. Many were "natural recipies", Diamond or Iams. Out of 96 recall listings Purina had 1 and Blue Buffalo had 1. Where are you getting your #'s on the excessive recalls on Purina?


I'm not talking about just their kibble... though do keep in mind, Nestle owns quite a bit more than just "Purina" branded foods, and yes, there has been more than one recall from them on that front too.

I'm talking about what an absolute pile of garbage they were over the chicken jerky business that cycled through recently. How many YEARS did it take them to pull those products, after a multitude of deaths and illnesses? And then REFUSED to recall them in other countries because, simply put, regulations did not mandate they "had to".

They are disgusting, a repugnant company.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Every owner feeds their dog according to affordability and convenience of the food, and how well the dog does on it.
I'll tell you why I don't find those studies helpful: each dog is different. 
For example, Fromm is considered to be a fantastic food. For my dog, it was a disaster, because chicken makes him sick. Even raw chicken and other poultry caused bad stools, itchy skin, and vomiting.

One dog can live a long time on Purina but the dog being "fine" is in the eye of the beholder. 
My mom fed kibble, I don't know what kind. Her dogs smelled terrible and had bad breath, and one constantly licked his paws, but she thought they were healthy and fine. To this day she doesn't admit they smelled bad. Could be that when you live with an animal, you get used to it and he doesn't seem smelly to your nose. 

Ultimately, the best food is the one you are happy with, and the one you consider to be keeping your dog healthy and full of energy, whatever your definition of that is.

PS-- When I tried to feed freeze-dried raw for two weeks, my dog's hair started falling out at an alarming rate, and I understood then why people think German Shepherds shed.
He also acted as if he were starving all the time, probably because he was used to eating meat that fills his stomach.

When I switched back to raw, he stopped shedding and was no longer acting as if he hadn't eaten in weeks.

That is my experience. 
Your mileage may vary.


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## volcano (Jan 14, 2013)

one pup from my girls litter ws fed a garbage diet and too much of it. At 10 months old it was basically unrecognizeable from the rest of the litter. It probably weighed 75 lbs and my girl is 56.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for the information. I missed reading about Purina's negligence on a problem product.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Stonevintage said:


> As the moderator, are you aware of any sites that I could look at that do comparative studies of the different foods as to long term health? Have the ingredients changed a lot in the Purina products in the last few years? (That would negate the fact that my previous dogs did well on their product)


Unfortunately the only long term studies I am aware of are the input by the end user. The typical feeding trial is like 6 months and only tests for a minimum of values and that the dogs did not die. The current AAFCO standards are, however, based on a grain based diet so feeding dogs premium foods with AAFCO ingredient levels (to avoid having to do the worthless feeding trial) may have unintended consequences......

On the ingredients, I know many of the companies has phenobarbital from euthanized pets / cattle years ago and that has now ended due to public uproar. When a food contains meat digest you really don't have a clue what that means and can vary wildly. But lets look at purina dog chow:

Whole grain corn, [Feed corn meaning it is a GMO product which has been sprayed with herbicides and that is relatively new]

meat and bone meal, [your guess-I used to buy meat from a poultry plant and the sweepings were what was going to rendering for pet food, plastic bags and all?]

corn gluten meal, [major source of protein and can cause allergies but so can meat]

animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols,[your guess?]

soybean meal, [another GMO product]

poultry by-product meal, [beaks, feet, feathers, offal]

egg and chicken flavor,{?}

whole grain wheat, [wheat can be an allergen, one of the more common ones]

animal digest, [rendered scraps of whatever]

salt, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Yellow 6, Vitamin E supplement, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, ferrous sulfate, Yellow 5, Red 40, manganese sulfate, niacin, Blue 2, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. B-4101


My apologies for commenting on what seemed to be the tone of your post.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Reasonably priced food for a puppy. Look at the reviews on Fromm. Excellent company with log solid history. nothing radical. No recalls and excellent HACCP program.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

jocoyn said:


> Reasonably priced food for a puppy. Look at the reviews on Fromm. Excellent company with log solid history. nothing radical. No recalls and excellent HACCP program.


:thumbup:


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks for the info. You certainly have been aware and switched foods accordingly. 

I cannot drive (seizures) and am limited to where I can travel routinely to get dog food without an expensive taxi fee. Safeway is right across the street from where I live. 

My pups sire and dam are 80lbs & 120lbs and the breeder recommended I put the pup on adult food as a precaution to growth issues. I am only adding 25% Iams super puppy to her diet, just as a precaution in case the purina dog chow is lacking in minerals and other essentials. The yogurt is recommended by the vet (for now) and the lean chicken pieces are his "treats".

My vet has ok'd this diet, but I am looking forward a few months to try to find something that will work for the long term.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Whenever people talk diet, most of the evidence is going to be anecdotal. It's hard to quantify the long-term impact of eating one type of food versus another. For example, have we been able to answer whether organic food is definitively better than none? 
Organic foods: Are they safer? More nutritious? - Mayo Clinic
According to Mayo, which I consider reputable, we have not.
This is in human food, which I would argue most of the world cares more about. 

My own anecdotal evidence is here:

I fed Puppy Orijen Large Breed Puppy growing up. Friend with puppy fresh from the shelter fed Blue Buffalo (or Buffalo Blue?). Both dogs get together, and my dog's body smells GREAT. Her dog had a distinct doggy scent. That dog went on to be a raw-fed dog, and now the scent on that dog is gone too. 

2. Puppy was fed Orijen. I noticed her dental health was not what I was comfortable with. I switched her to raw. Her overall condition is comparable, but her teeth are much better.

In my mind, kibble is a convenient way to replace having to assemble a nutritionally balanced meal every day for your dog. So, in an ideal world, the ingredients list should read that way. If you would naturally not feed your dog alot of corn, or only chicken, then maybe it doesn't have a place in your kibble either.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

Stonevintage said:


> Thanks for the info. You certainly have been aware and switched foods accordingly.
> 
> I cannot drive (seizures) and am limited to where I can travel routinely to get dog food without an expensive taxi fee. Safeway is right across the street from where I live.
> 
> ...



Is the Iams large breed puppy? I understand GSDs need to be on specific LBP formulas. 

Most places online can deliver food to your house if you are in the US. That might be an option if you're looking to switch it up.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you for your post. I could not find any trials either. Plenty of info by the pet food companies on both sides. You would think that by now there would be an independent study done.

I always knew that dog food (and hot dogs pretty much) was primarily grain (fillers) and disgusting animal parts. I've been trying to keep up on GMO results in humans but it still sounds inconclusive to me. 

The preservatives used concern me, but have they been there all along? Or are they using types now that are of greater concern than in the past 20 years or so. I don't even know how to query a search for preservative changes in dog food in the last 20 years.

Several good points, making a list for my vet!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

marshies said:


> Is the Iams large breed puppy? I understand GSDs need to be on specific LBP formulas.
> 
> Most places online can deliver food to your house if you are in the US. That might be an option if you're looking to switch it up.


The Iams is "Super puppy". I believe it's fairly new. Only 25 percent of her dry food is this, the balance is purina dog chow. I plan on taking her off the super puppy at 6-7 months. 

I have been looking at online delivery and it is an option if I get my research done and decide I need to change. That option will surely be more costly from what I have seen on Amazon, in fact it's comparable to just paying the 50.00 per month in taxi fares to get to the places that have it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Stonevintage said:


> The Iams is "Super puppy". I believe it's fairly new. Only 25 percent of her dry food is this, the balance is purina dog chow. I plan on taking her off the super puppy at 6-7 months.
> 
> I have been looking at online delivery and it is an option if I get my research done and decide I need to change. That option will surely be more costly from what I have seen on Amazon, in fact it's comparable to just paying the 50.00 per month in taxi fares to get to the places that have it.


Chewy might be cheaper for you

Dog and Cat Food, Treats, and Supplies | Free Shipping at Chewy.com


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Stonevintage said:


> I cannot drive (seizures) and am limited to where I can travel routinely to get dog food without an expensive taxi fee.


There are so many great options for ordering food online that local availability and transportation issues needn't be a factor. 

I've been very happy with both the prices and customer service from Chewy.com, and the selection is excellent too. Shipping is free for orders over $49. You can even order online from Petco, and they often have sales or special deals if you sign up and create an account.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

cheap shipping thru Fedex
Dog Food for Highly Active Dogs | Free Shipping at SportDogFood.com


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

From what I can see, just as an example; Blue Buffalo 15 lb 32.99 - Purina dog chow 15 lb 12.99.

I will probably use that method if I need to. I still have to see something that definitively shows that her health will be damaged if I don't use another brand. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks for the link. 54.99 for 30 lbs of Victor. That's a better price. Added to my list of resources.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I hope you don't find out AFTER she develops health problems.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

My pup will not be a sled dog. She won't be running a 4 mile trail as a sled dog. She is not high drive. I live in the city. I understand that you are commenting based on your experience. I am commenting on my experience. This is not my first GSD. Your comment "I hope you don't find out after she has health problems" is not useful in any way.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I no longer have sled dogs but I do have a GSD that can easily run 5 miles a day, work and train and still have energy to spare. This is a working breed.
The problem with your way of thinking is, the damage may very well be done before your aware. 
A good diet supports your dog's Immune system, a weakened immune system allows alot of problems to take hold. Some may not be reversable thus IMO makes this information useful and important..
It makes no difference to me should you choose to feed your pup crappy food. Perhaps it is all you can afford but I would like other members who are looking for feeding options, see what promotes good health.
I believe a dogs diet is the foundation to a healthy life. 

When you pay $12.99 for a large bag of dog food, common sense tells you it's crap, after all they are still making a profit on that.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Anecdotally, dogs smell better and need fewer baths and have better breath on good quality food. I personally have seen dogs go from needing frequent baths to almost never needing baths when their food was changed from Purina dog Chow or Beneful to Solid Gold or Victor. I have witnessed this with my own eyes multiple times after convincing friends and family to give it a try. I live in a one bedroom apartment with two adult German Shepherds and I have had non-dog-owning friends tell me that if they didn't see the dogs they'd never know they were there. There's nothing proven one way or the other as far as long-term health but for me, living in an apartment with 2 large dogs, the easy to pick up poops and the lack of doggie odor is enough.

My dogs eat Victor Grain-Free which I buy from my local feed store: $45 for a 30lb bag.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

As I said in my original post. My last GSD lived to be 14.5 years old. The 2 prior to that lived to be 13.5 and 13 years old. All fed on Purina. They were healthy and happy.

It is very apparent that you believe in a RAW diet. I'm glad your dogs are doing well. There are many others who do not feed RAW and still have healthy dogs. You can read their comments and what they feed.

This is how the thread started, we have moved on from there.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks. Your the 2nd person to recommend Victor. It certainly is more affordable than some of the other brands. My dogs never had body odor but I have petted GSD's and my hand just reeked. 

Victor will be the one I discuss with my vet if I decide I need to change.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If your dog doesn't have a problem with grains you can do the regular Victor instead of grain-free. It comes in a 40lb bag for the same price as the 30lb bag of grain-free. I was feeding that, but my younger dog has some digestive issues which cause him to do better on grain-free.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Chewy is excellent! They have wonderful customer service Food and supplies have always arrived fresh and in excellent shape and prices are good

Honestly, I don't know.......I know long lived dogs on the cheap foods and short lived ones on good foods and vice versa. To me, it is knowing just what some of those ingredients are and the fact that much of the pet food industry basically a way to profit from food waste leads me to be skeptical. I have not had a dog make 14 for a number of years though, but Linus who lived to 15 was fed premium foods all his life. 

My daughter's dog was fed beneful (Purina) and had awful stools and terrible oily dandruffy coat until I got her to switch to kirkland, yet I know some dogs with horrible allergies that thrived on it. Really? Who knows? I am sure I am not the only one who has rotated around foods to give my dog variety....so I don't even know how I could sort out which was best (other than I run yearly blood panels and look for issues - right now I have a healthy allergy free dog with lots of energy, good coat, no body odor, good temperament)

Victor would be a good choice. I understand they have a high quality milling operation, use top quality ingredients and have a variety of options. Grains are not necessarily bad if the dog tolerates them well. Any dry food is going to have carbohydrates either as grains or beans or potatoes for the extrusion process. Corn, wheat, and soy tend to be the most likely to give dogs problems...


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Thanks! Great post. It is up in the air to me too. That's why I was hoping for some kind of neutral 3rd party comparison data by now. Apparently, there's nothing out there yet. Thanks for the Victor thumbs too.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

*Which one sounds better to you? Which one would you rather eat? Which one sounds more healthy?*

Whole grain corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), barley, dried beet pulp, animal digest, dicalcium phosphate, fish oil, calcium carbonate, dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. Q-4035

OR

Boneless Angus beef*, boneless wild boar*, boneless lamb*, beef liver*, boneless pork*, pork liver*, whole herring*, lamb liver*, beef meal, lamb meal, herring meal, salmon meal, Pollock meal, beef tripe*, bison*, lamb fat, whole egg*, red lentils, chickpeas, green peas, yellow peas, green lentils, herring oil, pea fibre, yams*, sun-cured alfalfa, pumpkin, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, Red Delicious apples*, Bartlett pears*, cranberries*, blueberries*, kelp, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, Enterococcus faecium


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

To be fair, it would be nice if everyone could feed Orijen (the second food being compared above)... its what I feed mine, and I love it.

But its understandable that $90 a bag is a bit much for most people to spend on dog food. IF you can afford it, then I absolutely think one should be feeding their animals the best, but that's a big "if" for a lot of people.

FYI, a large bag of Fromm Classic (which is an "all life stages" food with perfectly acceptable cal/phos levels for a growing large breed), is only $37 for a 33lb bag on Chewy.com

The local feed store where I get my food from sells it for only $33 a bag. That's only $1 a lb, which is literally right in line with foods like Purina One or Iams.

There's hardly any reason NOT to feed something better, especially considering which companies you'll be supporting. I'd rather support someone like Fromm, a company with an exceptional record of quality, vs someone like Nestle (Purina) who likely is STILL killing dogs with their immoral business practices.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

atravis said:


> To be fair, it would be nice if everyone could feed Orijen (the second food being compared above)... its what I feed mine, and I love it.
> 
> But its understandable that $90 a bag is a bit much for most people to spend on dog food. IF you can afford it, then I absolutely think one should be feeding their animals the best, but that's a big "if" for a lot of people.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is Orijen that I listed. I was just trying to show the difference between a low quality kibble and a high quality kibble.

I feed Fromm to both of my dogs and I am very happy with it.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

I think people overlook the economical benefits of switching to a better food.

I used to feed Eukanuba Large Puppy to my girl before I made the switch to Orijen Large Puppy. Don't get me wrong, she did not have any problem with the Eukanuba and it did cost cheaper than Orijen. I did the switch only because I found a source of Orijen real cheap.

As I recall it was $70 for 9kg for Eukanuba or $7.80 per kg
Orijen was $125 for 13kg or $9.6 per kg.
Orijen is 23% more expensive

If you look at the nutrient analysis
Eukanuba is 26% protein
Orijen is 38% protein or 46% more protein than Eukanuba, this alone should justify paying more

I could read out the indgredients list too and you would see the difference between the two but that would be unnecessary.

It may be more expensive per kg, but because Orijen did not have any fillers I actualy fed my girl lesser than Eukanuba to achieve the same amount of nutrition. So all in, I probably paid as much or even lesser for my Orijen than I did Eukanuba and I've been feeding her better quality food at the same time. 

If I could have steak instead of McDonalds everyday, why not?


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

Nothing reads quite like an Orijen label- and with good reason, Orijen, despite any flaws it might have, really does push it to that extra level to make a very different, very good product. 

But, you are paying for that innovation. They'll be launching Tundra kibble here soon, and word on the street is that's its going to retail over $100 a bag. That's rich, even for my blood... literally "it would be cheaper to do pre-made raw" rich. No thanks, even if it does sound amazing.

Still, Fromm is a very solid product from a very solid company. And with prices like what they charge for Classic, every bit as affordable. 

Until someone can give me a reason why corn/wheat/soy gluten meals are a BETTER source of proteins/etc for your dog than just about any meat-based meal... I'll be sticking with foods like Fromm or Orijen.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

https://store.petango.com/category.aspx?zcid=1206

I use them. Look at all the discounts today, stock up. They have discounts like this every week. They had 40% on Orijen a few months ago. That's when I buy 4 bags

30% Off EVO

30% off The Honest Kitchen

25% off Natural Balance

25% off Fromm

20% off Blue Buffalo20% off Orijen


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## Mikelia (Aug 29, 2012)

jocoyn said:


> Honestly, I don't know.......I know long lived dogs on the cheap foods and short lived ones on good foods and vice versa. To me, it is knowing just what some of those ingredients are and the fact that much of the pet food industry basically a way to profit from food waste leads me to be skeptical.


This. Some of the ingredients are downright scary when you think about it, and I am just not comfortable feeding that long term. 
I don't know that there are any studies proving one style of feeding is better than another. I've worked in pet supply stores for 15 years, and have been grooming for the same amount of time. I have seen enough sick, gross, unhealthy dogs that are fed crap food, and just as many who became much healthier when switched to a higher quality food. I rarely see a vibrantly healthy eight year old large breed dog who has been fed grocery food all of its life. 
15 years ago when I started learning about what is put into my dogs food and switched my overly large male gsd from dog chow to fromm (the basic one in the maroon bag) and he went from eating 10 cups of food a day to no more than 6 cups of food a day, I was sold. I own 5 dogs and obviously see the changes in them from food to food. I feel I have watched it enough and have made my own decisions over the years. Dogs survive on just about any food, they thrive on higher quality. And the higher quality the food the better they thrive. 
This being said, I cannot disagree that many, many dogs do extremely well when fed lower quality food all of their lives. I think it was 2011 and 2012 that all the group placement and best in show dogs at the westiminster were fed Purina pro plan. Two years in a row the top seven dogs in the country were fed 'crap food'. A breeder friend feeds pro plan exclusively and their gsds live to 14 years old. Many of my friends have dogs that live well into their teens on ol roy, dog chow, pedigree. You will always be able to find animals that seem to do just fine being fed grocery foods, that's one of the wonderful thing about dogs - they are so adaptable.
But no matter how amazed I am that my friends rottweilerxpit bull lived to be 17 eating ol roy all of her life and having poops 4 times the size of my pit bull, I just can't bring myself to feed unknown ingredients. 
I do feed raw now, for almost two years. And my dogs do better on it than they did on even super premium kibble. I don't think I can ever go back to kibble - they are just so healthy. I currently am raising a puppy on it, have 2 middle aged dogs, 1 senior and 1 geriatric. All of them are in great shape and thriving. No allergies, no digestive issues, clean teeth, great weights and muscle tone. It is not the 'cure all' everyone claims it to be; my mutt still gets ear infections. But they are healthy and I'm comfortable feeding them what they eat so I'm happy.


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## kburrow11 (Jan 31, 2014)

Just so you know, it's probably a better idea to trust other owners'/breeders' recommendations for food brands than it is to trust your vets'. Most veterinary canine nutrition classes are sponsored, paid for, and taught by the "big" dog food companies like Iams, Purina, and Science Diet. Because of that, most vets are likely to be skewed in favor of recommending those food brands.

Student Research | University of Chicago Law School
Veterinary Nutrition Indoctrination | Dr. Doug


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

This will be a personal anecdote, but when I think back to all the dogs that have been in my family for the past 20 some odd years what I find is that it isn't so much the LENGTH of the dog's life that seems to be affected, but the QUALITY of the dog's life. And this is where it comes down to SURVIVING vs. THRIVING. 

We had several dogs when I was a young kid and they were always stinky, oily, smelly and pooped tons. I just assumed that was what a dog was. On top of that, we always had thyroid issues, fatty tumors, digestive issues, skin allergies, organ issues, often sickly, cancers etc. It was common for any dog we had to have something wrong with them. When I got older, I researched into dog foods and pestered my parents into switching from what we had been using before (Beneful, Purina, Kibbles n Bits) to a higher quality food (Victor and later Blue Buffalo). Much of the arthritis in our older dog started clearing up, her cataracts slowed down from their aggressive spread over her eyes, her previously unstable hormones became significantly more manageable, the fatty tumors stopped popping up on our other dog, his constant bowel irritation faded. Many of the health issues they had been having slowly dissipated on the higher quality food. Of course, things weren't perfect, but it was obvious that they felt notably better. After I moved out and my parents went back to the crap food, all the dogs' health issues came back full storm and continue to grow worse.

Kaiju will be my first raised on high quality food (raw) and while I don't have the whole story yet, I can say he is already remarkably different from previous dogs in that he does not have a "doggy" odor, no horrible dog breath, no buildup on his teeth, shiny coat, way less shedding, lots of energy, no excessive oil, no eye/ear/nose gunk, less poop, and no built up crusts in mucus membrane areas. I am hoping he will continue in a positive direction, but I will feed him high quality food his entire life based on the differences I have seen in previous dogs and the differences I see in him now.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

*Purina Large Breed Puppy*
Whole grain corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), barley, dried beet pulp, animal digest, dicalcium phosphate, fish oil, calcium carbonate, dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite. Q-4035

*Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy*
Duck, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Brown Rice, Menhaden Fish Meal, Lamb, Potatoes, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Whole Egg, Chicken Fat, Salmon Oil, Cheese, Flaxseed, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal, Carrots, Lettuce, Celery, Chicken Cartilage, Calcium Sulfate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Monocalcium Phosphate, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Sodium Selenite, Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics

There is a big difference between the quality of these 2 kibbles


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

atravis said:


> To be fair, it would be nice if everyone could feed Orijen (the second food being compared above)... its what I feed mine, and I love it.


Well, here is the rub. Not all foods work with all dogs. I don't like Orijen/Acana My dog had loose stools on it and even after several weeks did not adjust to it. Tried it several times and wound up giving it away. Also, the added canola oil in some formulas, the ingredient splitting with peas/beans which are probably more of a protein source than it appears etc. That said, like anything else, a lot of people swear by it. I have been feeding a rotation of Nature's Logic, Nutrisource, Nutrisca, Fromm and a few others. I try to keep warming foods in the winter and cooling foods in the summer and I think changing things up is good to ensure that if some manufacturer has too much or too little of one ingredient it balances out.

The labeling is not everything on most of these foods. Meat is mostly water so having a meat listed first looks good but may not mean much (I know Orijen is high on the meat protein though). Ingredients are routinely split so that the added carbs may actually make up the bulk of the food, etc. The dogfoodadvisor.com site has some good articles, so does the nature's logic "information" page and I am sure there are many others.

EDIT-I would add Victor to the mix but it is not available through Chewy. FWIW Victor manufactures Nature's Logic though it is not their formula. Many many many pet foods are manufactured by only a few manufacturers. One reason I refuse to feed Blue Buffalo is that the manufacturing sites are some big secret you can't find out. I want more transparency than that in any company I deal with.


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## marshies (May 18, 2011)

atravis said:


> Nothing reads quite like an Orijen label- and with good reason, Orijen, despite any flaws it might have, really does push it to that extra level to make a very different, very good product.
> 
> But, you are paying for that innovation. They'll be launching Tundra kibble here soon, and word on the street is that's its going to retail over $100 a bag. That's rich, even for my blood... literally "it would be cheaper to do pre-made raw" rich. No thanks, even if it does sound amazing.
> 
> ...


Orijen in Canada is over 100 a bag currently with tax. (Some types)
Part of the reason I switched to raw...
But when I board her she is still on Orijen.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Emoore said:


> If your dog doesn't have a problem with grains you can do the regular Victor instead of grain-free. It comes in a 40lb bag for the same price as the 30lb bag of grain-free. I was feeding that, but my younger dog has some digestive issues which cause him to do better on grain-free.


My dogs eat the beef (not grain-free) and have done very well on it. It's slightly over $1/lb. Shipping is fast. Customer service is great.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Victor, like Nature's Logic ( you can see a lot of similarities in igredients list  ) uses millet and sorghum as the grain in some of its foods. Millet is a seed not a grain and is very low allergy causing and gluten-free. It is one of the oldest "grains" in the world. Sorghum is also gluten free. I think it is high glycemic but dogs have a different glycemic response than humans. More to total carbs not type of carbs as we do.

The beef GF formula looks pretty good! I don't exclusively feed NL as I would rather keep protein levels closer to 30% max than 40%. Enough protein is enough. The best source of calories for energy burn for dogs is FAT.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

jocoyn said:


> Well, here is the rub. Not all foods work with all dogs. I don't like Orijen/Acana My dog had loose stools on it and even after several weeks did not adjust to it. Tried it several times and wound up giving it away. Also, the added canola oil in some formulas, the ingredient splitting with peas/beans which are probably more of a protein source than it appears etc. That said, like anything else, a lot of people swear by it. I have been feeding a rotation of Nature's Logic, Nutrisource, Nutrisca, Fromm and a few others. I try to keep warming foods in the winter and cooling foods in the summer and I think changing things up is good to ensure that if some manufacturer has too much or too little of one ingredient it balances out.
> 
> The labeling is not everything on most of these foods. Meat is mostly water so having a meat listed first looks good but may not mean much (I know Orijen is high on the meat protein though). Ingredients are routinely split so that the added carbs may actually make up the bulk of the food, etc. The dogfoodadvisor.com site has some good articles, so does the nature's logic "information" page and I am sure there are many others.


I have to laugh when people talk about the pea splitting thing. No, it really doesn't have that large of an affect on the product, by weight, peas/lentals make up vastly less of the food than actual animal proteins, including meals, so whatever % they are contributing to the protein is fairly minimal (they DO contribute... but how some make it sound, they might as well be making up half the product, which they most certainly do now). Also keep in mind that many of the ingredients use besides the meats are also "whole", therefor inclusive of their water content as well. 

Keep in mind that Orijen's extrusion process is different, the temperatures at which it processes the kibble is different, it does NOT follow the same "rules" so to speak, as a product like, lets say, EVO or Instinct, despite both also claiming very high meat inclusion.

Which isn't to say Orijen is best for every dog. You missed the point of what I was saying in that post, the implication wasn't that Orijen was the ONLY food that should be fed if you could afford it, but that when one has the means to do better for their animals, I personally believe that they should.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

atravis said:


> Which isn't to say Orijen is best for every dog. You missed the point of what I was saying in that post, the implication wasn't that Orijen was the ONLY food that should be fed if you could afford it, but that when one has the means to do better for their animals, I personally believe that they should.


Atravis, I was simply responding to this quote as I did not have a good experience with it even though I wanted to and tried several times. The statements about meat/meat meal, and splitting ingredients apply to many foods. I could never get a straight answer on just how much the peas add to the protein other than "they are not counted" though protein content is usually assayed and does not discriminate plant from animal protein. 

"To be fair, it would be nice if everyone could feed Orijen (the second food being compared above)... its what I feed mine, and I love it."


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Stonevintage said:


> My pup will not be a sled dog. She won't be running a 4 mile trail as a sled dog. She is not high drive. I live in the city. I understand that you are commenting based on your experience. I am commenting on my experience. This is not my first GSD. Your comment "I hope you don't find out after she has health problems" is not useful in any way.


I honestly don't understand this.

Just because your dog is not a sled dog and lives in the city does not mean he doesn't need nutrition.

Same as with humans. Just because you are not an athlete does not mean it will be healthy for you to eat all junk, every day.


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

Every feed thread I've ever read here always turns into a pissing match and a Purina bashing thread.

Just feed your dogs.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

MichaelE said:


> Every feed thread I've ever read here always turns into a pissing match and a Purina bashing thread.
> 
> Just feed your dogs.


If you eat McDonalds all day for every meal, I'm pretty sure you won't be living a very healthy life. Sure you're surviving but its not a pretty existence.

Same goes for your pet if you give it junk food with fillers.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

nezzz said:


> If you eat McDonalds all day for every meal, I'm pretty sure you won't be living a very healthy life. Sure you're surviving but its not a pretty existence.
> 
> Same goes for your pet if you give it junk food with fillers.


:thumbup:


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## MichaelE (Dec 15, 2012)

I haven't eaten at McDonald's or any other fast-food crappola place in over four years.

And no, I didn't miss the point of your post.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

One of my dogs was given a Purina diet by the vet for digestive issues. I read the label and couldn't believe that it would be helpful. I decided to give it a shot and it did work and she did get better but after she healed she was back on her healthy diet and fine ever since.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Instead of looking for a study on the "whole food", break down the ingredients. 

Corn is the primary ingredient in cheaper foods. It's used as a cheap source of protein. However, it's also high in carbohydrates that turn to sugar. Foods high in carbs/sugars lead to obesity and then to diabetes. It's been theorized that this is causing the increase in diabetes in cats. If you look at an animal fed a corn based food and then compare them after switching to a higher meat based food, you'll see that they've lost their 'corn belly' because of lower carbs and a food that their bodies are more able to process efficiently.

https://www.aahanet.org/Library/DiabetesMgmt.aspx

Look at the increase of Omega 6 in foods with corn/wheat. O6 is a good thing. It causes inflammation to occur at sights of injury. To much causes inflammation system wide and many cancers are now associated with chronic inflammation. 

Break down the food and look at the ingredients. I'm sure you can find studies, even if they are on humans, that can be associated with dogs and dietary concerns.


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## Girl_Loves_Hydraulics (Apr 13, 2014)

Sunflowers said:


> Every owner feeds their dog according to affordability and convenience of the food, and how well the dog does on it.
> I'll tell you why I don't find those studies helpful: each dog is different.
> For example, Fromm is considered to be a fantastic food. For my dog, it was a disaster, because chicken makes him sick. Even raw chicken and other poultry caused bad stools, itchy skin, and vomiting.
> 
> ...


Agreed, I think it's something you have to make a decision on yourself. Don't let anyone force their opinion on you, as there is no one who is the final authority on how you should go about your life. I think the best food any dog I grew up with had was Hill's Science Diet. Our Aussie had allergies, and it was the only brand that did not make her chew all the hair off her butt. It's also got to depend on what your dog will eat. I currently feed dry food (nothing against raw, just don't have the time or the space to keep a good supply going, plus the quality of the meat can be questionable in my area). My girls are on TOTW Pacific Puppy formula. They love it. I wanted to try Fromm's, but I'm not going to pay more for the small bag of food that I will have to go and replace in less than a week (they only sell the little bags of puppy food around me ugh). They do not like Blue Buffalo and neither do my cats. So far, TOTW has worked for MY pets, but this may not be the case for yours. I would experiment more, but my girls stools are nice, and I also notice I don't overfeed as much with the dry since I can measure it out. Will try raw at some point, but waiting until my stock pond is more established, or I can find a better local supply of quality meat.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I spent more time this morning looking at sites that are discussing dog food ingredients who don't appear to be biased.

One article that I found this morning contains information that concerns me much more than corn or grain. It was reporting on labeling requirements for dog food. High concentrations of steroids were addressed. Apparently for meat to be qualified to be labeled "natural" steroid use must be withheld from the animal 6 weeks prior to slaughter. Also steroid use is allowed in much higher quantities in meat animals intended as non-human feed products. 

I would like to find a dog food that is steroid free, not just one that qualifies to be called "natural" because the massive steroid use was with held the last 6 weeks prior to slaughter. I wasn't as concerned about the corn or grain factor as my dog has no allergies. I had however planned on supplementing the dry dog food with chicken. So, the steroid issue would be present with the chicken also. That may wipe out my plans because the certified organic chickens are very costly.

Does anyone know a dog food brand that will not use animals that have been on steroids most of their lives?


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Steroids in chickens? I don't think they are allowed by law in the US, only antibiotics are allowed and big manufacturers losing market share are going away from that. They are allowed in beef.


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

jocoyn said:


> Steroids in chickens? I don't think they are allowed by law in the US, only antibiotics are allowed and big manufacturers losing market share are going away from that. They are allowed in beef.


This is pathetic. Good old USA and max profits. Pork and chicken, do they still have antibiotics in them?

Steroid Hormone Implants Used for Growth in Food-Producing Animals


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Your correct, sorry. That's what I get for trying to read stuff like that at 5:00am. Beef not chicken.


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## Waldi (Jun 14, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> Isn't this mostly a reduction of fiber which they need and does not harm them?


 
Not really, dog do not digest corn, so it is chep way to bring food volume.


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

Dogs digest corn but it has to be cooked and processed. They are not designed by nature to digest any grains. I recall a study though where domestic dogs did, indeed, have more genes coding for pancreatic amylases to digest starch than wolves. They do not have salivary amylase though. 

Many a hunting dog in the south used to survive primarily on cornmeal mush.

There is a difference between survive and thrive, though.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

I don't know. My first shepherd back in 1971 was actually 1/2 wolf. His sire was pure timber wolf, his mom a GSD. We got him at 18 days old. (had to be there at 20-23 days old for the eyes opening and bonding to take place).

Per instructions, he was fed baby formula with pounded chicken necks for the first 12 weeks Eventually, and until he was at the end of his life at 13.5 years he was fed Purina dog chow.....

Yes, I was written up in Dog World magazine back then for having the longest living hybrid. We were the right people to own one at the right time.

I don't know why it worked out so well, no one does. But the dog food I used was fine.


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## Stonevintage (Aug 26, 2014)

Sorry, correction - we got him in 1979, not 1971.


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## nezzz (Jan 20, 2013)

Stonevintage said:


> I don't know. My first shepherd back in 1971 was actually 1/2 wolf. His sire was pure timber wolf, his mom a GSD. We got him at 18 days old. (had to be there at 20-23 days old for the eyes opening and bonding to take place).
> 
> Per instructions, he was fed baby formula with pounded chicken necks for the first 12 weeks Eventually, and until he was at the end of his life at 13.5 years he was fed Purina dog chow.....
> 
> ...


Wolves are genetically superior to dogs in all ways. They are mainly hunters and scavengers so their anatomy reflects that. They are build to digest every single thing they eat quickly and efficiently. This is passed down to hybrids too. 

Dogs on the other hand through generations of selective breeding have introduced faulty and defective genes into the gene pool, they simply do not have the resilience of wolves.

Thats why you can give a hybrid, Purina everyday and he'll scoff it down and survive till 13, their digestive and immune system allows them that. Most dogs won't be so lucky even if there are cases out there.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think dog food is a racket. 

A lot of the more expensive foods have worse ingredients by their ingredient list than food that cost less. 

Purina and Iams spend a LOT of money on advertising. That money isn't going into their product. If you turn over a 40$ bag of purina and a 40$ bag of diamond that weigh the same, it is pretty much a guaranty that the ingredient list of the diamond food will have fewer red flags. 

I avoid foods that have molasses in them. They do feeding trials, and if the dogs won't eat it, they up the sugar content, and re-submit it. In my experience dogs eat food that have meat in it. The molasses is hiding the lack of meat or rancid fat. 

The bottom line though, is how your dog does on the food. Some dogs just seem to do better on mid-range dog food, rather than the high end stuff. If it is working for you, and your dogs are healthy and long-lived, then you have your answer.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Is anyone else hoping sable123 makes his return with this thread? He would have been all over this one.


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Like some of the others, I feed Fromm because it's a small company dedicated to dog and cat food only, use ingredients from the US. My dog is on the pork and applesauce because he seems to be sensitive to the beef and chicken based foods that most companies have. It's more expensive but he eats less and doesn't have the digestive problems he was having. You just have to find what works best for your dog


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