# Puppy Bobbing Head. Anyone Recognize?



## JAngelus (Aug 7, 2013)

Hello, I have an 18 week old GSD puppy, Myra. She has been exhibiting a strange behavior that I'm curious if anyone recognizes. When she's staring at something intently, she will start to bob her head up and down, as if she were nodding 'yes'. I don't believe she's losing consciousness, and the episode lasts between 0.5 and 2 seconds; it's instantaneous. Her pupils are not dilating or constricting. Afterward she resumes her normal behavior, doesn't seem tired, balance is fine. On 3 occasions now, she has actually lost her balance during one of these episodes, and fallen to one side.

From the research I've done, I don't believe it's seizures, because she is perfectly alert and seems un-phased by these episodes. She has done this while I was playing tug with her, and doesn't even lose the rope out of her mouth. She doesn't mess with her ears, which makes me think it's not an ear infection, or vestibular problem. To our knowledge, she has not had any traumatic blow to the head. All other behavior is normal except that she seems to be wearing her middle nails (particularly on her hind paws) much more than normal.

Our vet is not sure what the problem is, but said there's a possibility of a neurological problem. He has referred us to a neurologist. We have an appointment for her on Monday, but if anyone has any insight, or has seen any similar issues, we would love anything that may help us solve Myra's unknown behavior.

I have a few videos of this but I can't get the file type to upload on this website...

Thank you!


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

I know a dog that has this weird "tick" when he concentrates. He is a few years old, nothing is wrong, but he twitched weird on one side of his head when he is looking for something, concentrating on you holding a ball etc... It's so funny!


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## Trotter (Jan 16, 2013)

No personal experience with this (other than that one of my habituated raccoons does it), but ran across this link with some general info: Head bobbing in dogs

Note that the article purports to link low calcium levels to head-bobbing in puppies. Article also suggests it's no big deal.

Best to get the neuro's input and at least another vet's before letting it go, self-help, etc.


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## Xsan (Aug 8, 2013)

I haven't seen this with my german shepherds. However with my chihuahuas head bob when their sugar level gets low. I put some sugar in their water and they don't do it again. Seems to happen once every couple years in hot weather. 


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

Are her nostrils dilating? All mine do that when they're sniffing intently and focused. It might be something that simple.


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## JAngelus (Aug 7, 2013)

Here's a video of the worst episode she's had.

I haven't noticed whether her nostrils are dilating. I'll try and observe that. She's doing this in some form at least 5 times per day, so I've been able to get a good idea of what it looks like.

I haven't tried giving her sugar. She eats a lot right now, and very regularly. Lots of training treats as well. Worth a shot to try the sugar though!


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't see anything weird in that video, normal heavy puppy head and no balance. And I would not give my dog sugar...


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Really, nobody sees anything weird? I, kind of, did think that the part that started about 10-11 seconds into the video and ended with the dog kind of collapsing on his/her side was odd. 

Of course, I am not an expert on puppies. So, I will leave it to others to discuss.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I see the tick. Does she usually fall over like that? She hit the floor pretty hard. It sure looks neurological to me. Can you send that video to the vet?


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## MegRose (May 25, 2013)

It doesn't look normal to me. I'm no expert either, but I've never seen a puppy do that before. 

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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

I'd like to see more videos. If this falling sideways is a once thing, I'd say puppy being clumsy, but if you have seen it more than once, then I'd like to know more. I don't see head bobbing in the video, more like trying to keep balance, but she seems startled by her own falling.

You know her better than anyone else.


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

My pup did the same falling all the time, he was just being goofy. He grew out of it.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

I don't think that is normal.


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Neko said:


> My pup did the same falling all the time, he was just being goofy. He grew out of it.


same here, hes trying to figure out his large ears, dogs will move their ears to the direction of sounds, left, right, forward, it just look`s like hes trying to figure how to do that


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

Ken K, exactly! There are a million videos out there with puppies falling on their head. They are clumsy. Ours would also follow a fruit-fly, fuzz, sound or ceiling fan and fall on his head. He is fine. And the dog that we know with an actual "twitch" where he is more obviously moving his head when concentrating is also fine and will live a normal life. That dog is nothing like this, he actually looks like one of the bobble heads lol.

I agree with the ears up, might be off balance! If the vet did not see any issues, I would not worry unless the dog started running and randomly tipping over or running sideways, etc..


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I personally think the pup trying to look up at you way up there holding the camera, then getting tired and bored (normal pup) is what caused the falling over. Pups are clumsy. I didn't see anything weird. Of course, I know mothers who seems to pour over every inch of the kids' bodies every night, and are always "finding" something to take them to the doctor with. I never took my kids to the doc unless they were bleeding profusely for days or had a fever with spots for days. ::kidding::

I see nothing but a clumsy, happy pup. But I'm not an expert.


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## vickip9 (Mar 28, 2012)

I am not an expert, nor a vet, but there does appear to be something wrong. Right after the puppy yawns, it starts to do the short, quick bobs and then falls over. It appears to almost be "out of it" for a second during the head bob and fall. But then regains and starts to roll around on the floor. I would absolutely have a vet take a look at that video and maybe see about calling a neurologist.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

I should qualify my post by saying I agree with Catu--You know her better. We are not there to see her. If your gut is telling you that might be something to check out, then by all means keep an eye on it. Trust yourself.


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## JAngelus (Aug 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the feedback! We don't want to be over analyzing her behaviors, and we've had a lot of people tell us she'll probably grow out of it. The head bobbing itself probably wouldn't have concerned us as much if she hadn't actually fallen over three times. I've seen a puppy trip, but never tip over while it was sitting up. I think the majority of our concern stems from the vet being concerned.

The last two days, I haven't noticed her doing this 'head bobbing', for lack of a better term. She could definitely grow out of it, and we're hoping that is the case. She is growing very rapidly, 42 pounds at 18 weeks, so I'm crossing my fingers her body just needs to catch up with itself!

The vet mentioned when we were in for her second round of vaccines (around 2 months ago) that he was a little bit concerned that she may have decreased rear limb function because of how much she was wearing her hind (middle two) nails down. At that point he hinted that there could possibly be an underlying neurological issue, but at that young of an age it was hard to tell. Said what many of you have posted; could very well be a clumsy puppy that is disoriented and still learning how to manipulate her own body. He sent us home with instructions to watch her and try to determine whether she was dragging her back paws; I have noticed her doing this, but it's minor. However, the middle two nails are VERY short, which makes me think she may do it more than I can tell.

At her last vet appointment (Monday), when I showed him the video, he was concerned being that he had already noted a possible neuro problem; he said it was possible but unlikely to have two signs of neurological dysfunction that are completely unrelated and coincidental. So, off to the neurologist we go on Monday, just to be certain!

As I mentioned, the last two days have been head bob free, and she has been energetic and playful as ever. Hopefully the neurologist will send us away with a 'clumsy' puppy! I will keep updating and be sure to conclude the post with whatever information we receive. Thanks again for all the feedback!


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

BowWowMeow said:


> I see the tick. Does she usually fall over like that? She hit the floor pretty hard. It sure looks neurological to me. Can you send that video to the vet?


It took viewing the video the 2nd time to see it...it's sutble.

Keep the neuro appointment. Bring this video with any other episodes you can catch. 

No ear infections? Ears really been checked by the vet?

Can dogs get vertigo?


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

I kept watching it over and over with no sounds, was also wondering if there is a bug bite on the ears or tree sap, infection? Once when my pup was being funny with his head/ears is when i found a tick on his ear. He acted like that tick was 5 pounds attached to that ear. 

Lets hope you get some good news, keep us posted please =)


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

Dogs can get vertigo but it's almost always older dogs (unless it's caused by some sort of illness or a very bad inner ear infection which the vet would have caught) and it wouldn't come and go. 

I'm glad that she is no longer doing this but do thing it's prudent to see the neurologist, just in case. 

A chiro adjustment might resolve the back feet issue.


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## JAngelus (Aug 7, 2013)

We saw the neurologist on Monday, and Myra had gone four (4) consecutive days without one of these episodes. But as soon as the neurologist walked into the room, she did it twice right in front of him. Very helpful in determining what was going on! He diagnosed her as having ‘focal seizures,’ which as he explained are caused by a small piece of a pathway in the brain that is either scarred (genetic anomaly, head trauma, etc.) or has simply not finished developing. This causes a misfire resulting in what was shown in the video. He said he sees this in many large breeds as puppies primarily because of their rapid growth rate. If, in fact, it is merely a piece that hasn't yet developed, she will reasonably outgrow it (he said this is by far the most likely scenario). He did not recommend any clinical tests because he said the cause of this type of seizure is VERY difficult to isolate. We proceeded with a question and answer session:

*Is she in any pain/discomfort?* Absolutely not. She does not even know it’s happening.

*Will this get worse?* Very unlikely. Focal seizures generally ‘are what they are’ as far as severity is concerned. Rarely do they get worse, unless there is something to compound the issue (such as a major injury). But if they are caused by an undeveloped pathway, we do see them disappear with growth.

*Does she need medication?* No. Focal seizures are very minor. It’s infrequent that they occur during activity, but if they did, and for instance the dog was working/playing, it wouldn't even pause its play (basically would just work right through it). The nature of a focal seizure necessitates that it is primarily observed when the brain starts to relax and/or when the dog gets tired.

*Is this similar to epilepsy?* No. If so, it would require medication because epileptic seizures, over time, start incorporating more and more of the brain tissue. That is not the case with focal seizures and is why they rarely worsen.

*Are there any other health concerns linked or related to this issue that we need to look for/could this alter her behavior (aggression)?* No.

*Can we continue with training/classes as we normally would?* Yes, please treat her like a normal dog. She feels like a normal dog and will respond the same as a normal dog would to all environments.

*Are there foods and/or treats that will affect this condition positively or negatively?* No.

So overall, very good news! I tried to cover all my bases during the appointment and he was extremely knowledgeable, I would highly recommend him to anyone with an issue similar to this. Dr. Steve Skinner in Beaverton, OR (Oregon Veterinary Specialty Hospital).


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

Thank you so much for update. Very interesting, glad the neurologist was able to see it, makes a big difference.

I think your questions were really good. It looks like Myra will be fine *phew* 

It's always a relief just to know what's going on.


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks for the updates! I'm sure it will help many people thatmay come in the future to this thread.


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

Lol, I told you I have seen it before and it stopped! I wonder how many puppies experience this and it's just part of their development. Thanks so much for the update!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

so it was the extreme focus , attention


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## Marzidotes (Jun 18, 2015)

Hi, I'm new here and so nervous for my pup. He is new too! LOL. He is head bobbing from side-to-side, as in saying "no"....he does seem to do this more when he is concentrating or trying to hear something off in the distance. Can he outgrow this? I'm certain he is not seizuring as I have seen that before in another dog ...well, at least not yet. Can't get into the vet till Monday and I'm so worried. In viewing the posts, it looks like this can be a focus issue? Is that common? Just worried and hope for some success stories or any insight anyone can give. Thanks, sign me "The nervous Mama" ahaha..


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Can you post video?? How is his walking and balance??


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

There is nothing normal about that. Scary that people think that's normal. 

Neurologist, pronto. That doesn't even look hypoglycemic to me, more nervous system.

Not sure why this post has been resurrected from 2013, but if your dog is doing the same thing as in the video, see a neurologist. Very scary to me how many people shrugged that off.


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## DollBaby (Oct 31, 2012)

How is Myra doing now after all of this time?


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