# Has anyone here used/uses the Einstein Ecollars?



## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi, I was curious if anyone here uses the Ecollars from Ecollar Technologies, the Einstein models? What I've read about them on their site and Leerburg's (not sure how much faith to put into that) was pretty good, and their stopwatch style transmitter seems more intuitive to me than the other styles, but they're a new player so very few people seem to have them, and I'm a bit doubtful getting one because of that.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Einstein stands for "a brilliant brain". To me that is not what these collars represent. Your dog is not even a year old so she still needs to learn to adapt to the crazy human ways. There are more positives ways to teach your dog without having to hurt her. Of course this is my personal opinion and this matter has already been discussed extensively on the forum. It is not my intention to re-start this again.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I would go with Dogtra.


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## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

Wolfy, not sure how you calculated her age, but she's a year and 9 months old now. 

qbchottu, I'd have hoped you could give some more details as to your choice, and perhaps some pros and cons. Dogtra was my second choice, maybe the 280NCP.

On paper, the Einstein sounds better, vs. the Dogtra. It's got a waterproof transmitter, lockable stim level (or is it really hard to accidentally change it on the Dogtra?), a boost button (it stims your set level plus 25), and a few nice features like a light on the collar.

Their website (I realize it's biased) says good stuff about their technology being the newest and most advanced, for what it's worth: www.ecollar.com


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

I like Dogtra. Same way I like a certain lead or a certain collar. Personal preference. Use it, try it, and find what works for you. The features are all basically standard. Some bells and whistles thrown in to draw you in. But in the end, you won't know what works for you until you are out on the field. Do you have a trainer or club? Ask to try their models out. See what fits.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Lotus99 said:


> Wolfy, not sure how you calculated her age, but she's a year and 9 months old now.
> http://www.ecollar.com


From your signature


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## ShenzisMom (Apr 27, 2010)

I think you've forgotten your coffee wolfy, it says 
'Working line female born Feb. 2011' 
for her signature. =P


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> From your signature



It's almost 2013.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I use a Dogtra advance 2300ncp...it charges in two hours and that charge lasts a long time. I bought it here(free shipping) Waterproof and durable....
Dogtra 2300 NCP Advance. $299.99. FREE Shipping US48


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## Debbieg (Jun 7, 2009)

DH and I have use the Dogtra 1900 on our guys on off leash activities for two years and are still very happy with them.

Dogtra 1900 NCP Field Star Dog Training Collar. $249.99. FREE Shipping US48


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

ShenzisMom said:


> I think you've forgotten your coffee wolfy, it says
> 'Working line female born Feb. 2011'
> for her signature. =P


Yes, it actually was before I had coffee :laugh::laugh: 
Sorry !


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

We have an Einstein. Primarily for off leash recall on our younger dog. It's the first time we have ever used an e-collar so I'm not much of an expert. 
I have the 700 model. It has no light but does have a tone function.
Our trainer tried them and liked them but is used to the Dogtra.
The Einstein is more like a stop watch.
We like that it is made in America and is less expensive than the other name brands.
It is very easy to use, especially because we weren't used to any different type.
One mild negative is that it doesn't tell you when it's fully charged but I don't really care. I leave it on a few hours and that does it.


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## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for the input. Good to hear. I guess some of the features Einstein has, like the fact you can lock in your stim level, are not that big of a deal, in that I'm guessing on the Dogtra models, you don't end up accidentally changing your stim level, so it's just a nice feature on paper.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

I've used an Einstein for several months. I have a two dog model and it's from before they had the "jump up" feature. I think that 25 is too big a jump but I'm told that the newest ones can be programmed to any level that you like. 

I don't think that the ability to lock the stim is a big deal. When I first tested the Dogtras I complained that the dial was too easy to turn. Just brushing your sleeve against it could do it. But they have since changed the "stiffness" of the dial and it's much stiffer now. It's still easy to move with your fingers, but won't be moved by brushing clothing against it without a lot of pressure. If you work at it, even a model that has click stops, can be moved like that. 

Mine has the light feature which I think is handy for those who go training after sunset. It makes it easy to find your dog in the dark. But I like to be able to see the dog so I can gauge his response to the stim and set the level based on that. If it's so dark that I need a light to find my dog, I can no longer see him. 

I have an 802A (two dog model) and find that the TX is too big for my hand, and I have large hands. It just doesn't feel right. 

I'm also very put off by the negative advertising on the Einstein site. It's one thing to say that you make the best Ecollars in the world. It's quite another to "warn" other people not to buy your competitor's products, as they do. 

I prefer the Dogtras, the 2300 is my favorite.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Lotus99 said:


> Thanks for the input. Good to hear. I guess some of the features Einstein has, like the fact you can lock in your stim level, are not that big of a deal, in that I'm guessing on the Dogtra models, you don't end up accidentally changing your stim level, so it's just a nice feature on paper.


Actually the lock feature was important to me. No risk of going higher than you want. Just push a button and that feature is deactivated and you can use it like all the others.

Lou doesn't need the lock feature because he is a pro and I'm just learning. 
We are using his methods though.


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## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Lou, you've got some good points too, and you're right, the way they've written things up on their homepage isn't the most professional way to bring up those points...

If I was to get a Dogtra, do you think the 280NCP might be enough stim? It's classified as a low/medium one, vs. the 2300 that says it's a low/high model (or the 1900).


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Lotus99 said:


> If I was to get a Dogtra, do you think the 280NCP might be enough stim? It's classified as a low/medium one, vs. the 2300 that says it's a low/high model (or the 1900).


It depends on how you're using the Ecollar. If you're using my methods than it will probably be OK. If you're using the Ecollar for corrections after having trained the behaviors with some other methods, then "it depends." It depends on how highly driven your dog is, prey drive is usually the main problem because it can take the dog into danger and, at the same time, make him very resistant to discomfort. 

I never recommend the low to medium range collars. (We're talking about power here, not distance that the collar can reach). In the Dogtra line they're about 2/3 of the power of the low to high range collars. If your dog ever gets into a chase you may find that the lower power unit is not getting through the dog's level of distraction, he's not feeling it at all, in his excited state. I've never come across a dog that's been trained with the Ecollar using my methods, that does not break off a chase if a low to high power unit is in use. 

Think of it in the same way as purchasing a car that only goes 85 MPH, (a suggestion from a legislator during the gas crisis of several years back.) You'll probably never need to drive that fast, but if you need to tomorrow, and you can't ... 

ALSO, check Amazon.com before you buy, especially if you're looking at the 1900. They've had that collar at a ridiculously low price that even I can't beat. It comes and goes, so take a few days checking. It's around $187. I prefer the 2300 because I like the quick-charge batteries it uses, but their price is nowhere near the 1900's on Amazon.


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## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

Lou, thanks for chiming in, and your tips. I appreciate that. Good points, as always.  I'm just starting to read up on all the training methods, so I haven't yet put it all together, but I do like your approach from what I've read.

One thing about Dogtra, if I've understood correctly, they don't have this +25 boost type button like the Einstein. So in a situation like you describe above, where the dog's in a chase, it would sound like you need to use a higher than regular level of stim, where a boost button would come in handy.

So with your Dogtra, how do you do so quickly? You rotate the dial manually and press the button? It would seem like a lot to do, and hard to do accurately (dial in a specific level you're thinking of), in a second's reaction.


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

Lotus99 said:


> One thing about Dogtra, if I've understood correctly, they don't have this +25 boost type button like the Einstein. So in a situation like you describe above, where the dog's in a chase, it would sound like you need to use a higher than regular level of stim, where a boost button would come in handy.


Thanks for the kind words. 

You're correct, Dogtra does not have this boost feature, I don't think any other brand does. The problem I have with it is this. It's a guess as to what the dog may need in the emergency situation. If your guess is accurate, you're good. If it's too high, you may create a problem that you can't fix. I have no doubt that I could fix it, but I'm not there, with you. If it's too low, it won't stop the behavior. If you've got your setting locked, as many people will, you have to first unlock it and then turn the dial, while holding down the button. This goes against the nature of an emergency. It's going to take too long and by then (in my worst case scenario, a dog chasing a cat towards a busy street) he's going to be in the street. 



Lotus99 said:


> So with your Dogtra, how do you do so quickly? You rotate the dial manually and press the button? It would seem like a lot to do, and hard to do accurately (dial in a specific level you're thinking of), in a second's reaction.


With the Dogtra, or even with the Einstein, if you go that way, you do the same thing. Press and hold the continuous button down and turn the dial. It takes both hands, but since your dog is not on a leash, you have both hands free. That way, with either system you have the entire range of stim immediately available. You turn the dial until you see some sign from the dog that he's feeling the stim and then you can decide to go higher if necessary, to interrupt the behavior, or go lower to guide him into the desired behavior, once (in the example I've used) he's veering away from the cat. 

I doubt that I'd ever use the lock feature. I didn't use it during my trial with the system, except to test to make sure that it worked.


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## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

I see. Thanks for the practical examples. You don't think of those when researching this stuff...


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## la_nausee (Dec 28, 2011)

I use the double receiver einstein setup up, which was purchased from the leerburg site, but shipped directly from the company. The most important feature that I like about it is the size. You can choose between small or large I believe, I ordered the small. The delivery of stim is the same. I was using the dogtra 7100h 2 receiver setup, which now looks like a brick in comparison. I use the nepopo system, where the stimulation can be delivered for activation, negative feedback, or severe correction. The +25 boost feature is nice, but +25 is too large, so I reprogrammed it to my preference of +10 to +15. It won't be in the manual, and you will need to call the company for directions. Already, there are advantages over the dogtra. The size, the boost feature, and the lock and set, which was a real problem with the dogtra. The dogtra dial was too sensitive. You may find the einstein dial to be sensitive as well, if you don't use the lock and set feature. Another advantage of the einstein is the battery. It isn't memory based like the dogtra was. You just need to charge full and deplete full, the first 3 times you use the remote and the receiver. Then you no longer have to wait until it is fully depleted before recharging to preserve the battery life. 

The dogtra 7100h, from what I experienced by stimulating myself, is that the deliveries seemed to be inconsistent and volatile at times. Sometimes the deliveries were sharp or "bitey", sometimes the deliveries were dull/blunt (I prefer dull/blunt). Consistency is important in communicating with the dog. The einstein 400ts+ that I have doesn't quite have this problem. Actually, the only problem I see in the einstein unit that I have, is that the initial delivery comes at a higher intensity than the actual setting. For example, when I turn on the ecollar for the first time, and stim myself the first 2 or 3 deliveries are higher than what I set, perhaps 10 levels higher and the delivery is very sharp/bitey. In order to work around this, I deliver the first stimulations upon turning the device on, to myself or if the collar is already on the dog, I set it at level 1 and stim to get rid of the initial surges. I can't tell you if this is a problem in the design, or if it is just my unit. It's a non-issue really. I'm sure if it were a wide problem, quality control would have picked it up. 

I stimulated myself on max level, and it is comparable to level 75 out of 120 on the dogtra 7100h. I honestly don't like the stopwatch style, I feel the remote is too big. Maybe I have small hands. Another thing I don't like about the remote is that there is no feeling of distinction between the momentary and continuous button. The dogtra does have this, therefore I did not have to look at the remote. However, I suppose the designers overlooked this because you can program the 2nd button to be the emergency boost button as continuous or momentary. Still, some kind of physical distinction based on touch, between the 1st and 2nd button would have been nice. I, also, don't like the existence of the pager feature. I never use the pager, and so my dog gets confused when I hit the pager button. The stopwatch design makes it such that my thumb is always resting on that pager button, and as a consequence there are unintentional deliveries (rare). If the pager button could be reprogrammed as an extra 3rd button, that would have been excellent. For example, I primarily use continuous, so the 1st button is normal level continuous, the 2nd button is emergency, and the 3rd would have been nice for momentary. Which would have been super for protection, as continuous is information for control to my dog and nick is information to block avoidance while engaged with helper. 

I find the feature of the bright white led lights useless for the purposes of my training which is IPO and IPO only. I accidentally turn them on sometimes without knowing it because the same button is used to power on and off the remote. This is problem in daylight, when I don't notice the led lights being on, and although I don't know at which rate it drains the battery, it unnecessarily drains it nonetheless. The battery life seems to be okay, once you can get past the initial 3 full depletion/full charging phase. The first 3 attempts can be a pain as it requires 13 hours to charge both the remote and receiver to full from complete depletion before use. After the first 3, you can charge and use it at any time and at any length. Finally, the customer service is excellent. I have no experience with dogtra's.

In the end, there are no major design flaws, and I feel I am more efficient in communicating with my dog in contrast to using the dogtra, simply because of the features that are available. It will take a little getting used to if you are switching over.


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## Lotus99 (Apr 22, 2011)

la_nausee, thanks for the awesome feedback and detailed review. :thumbup:

Interesting, I hadn't heard of a two receiver collar before. From what I can see, the Dogtra 7100H is the older model name of the SureStim H, described as coming "with higher stimulation levels for stubborn dogs". It seems to have a 3" wide receiver on the collar, vs. the Einstein 400's 2" wide receiver (the same as on their 300/mini model). So when you say you find the stim on your 400 at about 2/3 of your Dogtra, that would seem to make sense, if the receiver size is an indication. The Einstein 800 has the 3" receiver, so I'd expect it to be stronger and more comparable to your 7100H, and hence the higher cost I suppose.

From what you say, even though the Einstein isn't as strong as your Dogtra, it still seems sufficient in terms of the highest level of stim you think you would use. And you're doing IPO work too... If that's the case, I doubt I'd need to go to an 800 model Einstein for my purposes, if I get one of theirs. Would you agree?

Our girl is 70 pounds, and I won't be doing any IPO type work with her. Just trying to proof off leash recalls and other obedience stuff. I hope the fact that yours has two receivers and you're feeling the stim at 2/3 levels of your Dogtra won't mean that a single receiver model will be half of that!


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## LouCastle (Sep 25, 2006)

la_nausee said:


> I use the double receiver einstein setup up, The most important feature that I like about it is the size. You can choose between small or large I believe, I ordered the small. The delivery of stim is the same. I was using the dogtra 7100h 2 receiver setup, which now looks like a brick in comparison.


The method of stim delivery is the same, "you press the button and the dog is stimulated" and the other features are the same, but it's a low−to−medium power unit. As with the Dogtra units, the highest level of stim is about 2/3 of the low−to−high power units. As expected, it's smaller than the full power units. I've never understood the importance that some people place on the size of the receiver. You should see the size of the Ecollars from years past, some of them were twice the size of today's units. The dogs never seemed to mind, unless you were dealing with a toy breed. 



la_nausee said:


> Already, there are advantages over the dogtra. The size, the boost feature, and the lock and set, which was a real problem with the dogtra. The dogtra dial was too sensitive.


If you're using the lock on the Einstein, you can't quickly change the level if the dog needs just a bit more stim, as would be the case with a low level distraction that suddenly appeared. If he's VERY distracted, the boost may be enough, but as I pointed out in my previous post, it may be enough, or it may be too much, it's impossible to predict with any certainty. If you're just using the Ecollar in place of a leash, for corrections when the dog does not comply, this isn't as important. But then you're just scratching the surface of what an Ecollar can be used for. 



la_nausee said:


> Another advantage of the einstein is the battery. It isn't memory based like the dogtra was. You just need to charge full and deplete full, the first 3 times you use the remote and the receiver. Then you no longer have to wait until it is fully depleted before recharging to preserve the battery life.


Sorry, but you got this a bit wrong. The earliest NiCad (Nickel Cadmium) batteries suffered from this problem. Later models of these batteries reduced, but did not eliminate it. But NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride) batteries, the kind used in the Dogtra 7100H, do not suffer from it. You can "top off" the batteries at any stage of use. You do not have to charge and deplete them the first three times you use them, although ANY type of rechargeable battery will do better with this treatment. And Dogtra offers fast charging LiPo (Lithium Polymer) batteries in the 2300 and the 3500 units. 



la_nausee said:


> The dogtra 7100h, from what I experienced is that the deliveries seemed to be inconsistent and volatile at times. Sometimes the deliveries were sharp or "bitey", sometimes the deliveries were dull/blunt . Consistency is important in communicating with the dog. The einstein 400ts+ doesn't quite have this problem. Actually, the only problem I see in the einstein unit that I have, is that the initial delivery comes at a higher intensity than the actual setting.


With either unit, if the stim is not consistent from first to last, there's a problem with the unit and it should be sent in for repairs. 



la_nausee said:


> I stimulated myself on max level, and it is comparable to level 75 out of 120 on the dogtra 7100h.


Yep, that's about right. On the full power units you have a lot more at the high end. Some dogs may not need this for everyday use but some may and there's no way to predict beforehand. The level of stim that a dog needs is NOT related to any other characteristic that he has. Some people think that because there dog is sensitive to their voice or to leash corrections that he won't need a full power unit. They're often wrong. 



la_nausee said:


> I honestly don't like the stopwatch style, I feel the remote is too big. Maybe I have small hands. Another thing I don't like about the remote is that there is no feeling of distinction between the momentary and continuous button. The dogtra does have this, therefore I did not have to look at the remote.


I guess my fingers are numb or that I've worn down the bumps on the buttons, but I can't tell the buttons apart on my units that have this feature. You might try putting a few dabs of superglue on one of the buttons. You can build them up, so they're as tall as you like. 



la_nausee said:


> I find the feature of the bright white led lights useless for the purposes of my training which is IPO and IPO only. I accidentally turn them on sometimes without knowing it because the same button is used to power on and off the remote. This is problem in daylight, when I don't notice the led lights being on, and although I don't know at which rate it drains the battery, it unnecessarily drains it nonetheless.


I hadn't considered this to be an issue since I'm out training at all hours, but now that you mention it, unnecessarily draining the battery would be a PITA. In a perfect world, you'd always start each training session with a full charge, so it wouldn’t really be an issue, but I don't know anyone who lives there. 



la_nausee said:


> Finally, the customer service is excellent. I have no experience with dogtra's.


I always get excellent customer service from Dogtra, but then they know me. But I know people who have gotten misinformation from both companies about their products at times. It's rare but just about all companies suffer from this. 

A lot of these criticisms are personal opinion and there really aren't any black and white answers. Every Ecollar is a compromise, no matter what brand you're looking at. If possible, I suggest that people handle several brands of Ecollar before buying. That way you'll be able to tell of the ergonomics is right for you. Each of them has advantages and disadvantages. Some users will need a feature that others will find useless, or worse, detrimental.


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## mulhollandca (Aug 19, 2015)

I have been using the Einstein waterfowler, 2 dog collar for a while. I love it, its been very reliable, has lasted for 2 yrs and holds a charge for days. They have a light on the collar you can turn on and off with the remote, A mile range which we tested, and tapping mode. We use it for our deaf doberman to communicate with him off leash and a very reactive husky. We've had such success with him using the collar we can walk him off leash and socialize him now. We don't even use the higher frequency. Its a training collar so can be used very humanely.


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