# 18 month old attacked senior dog at dog park



## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

Hi All! 
The forum has always come through for me on good advice with my dog.
Tofu is almost 18 months old and was fixed at 6 months. He's playful, confident, social, alert, loves dog wrestling and goes nuts for chasing squirrels. So I was extremely surprised when he started a tussle at the dog park gate while entering. An elderly (13 years old) Labrador retriever was exiting through the gate on leash and suddenly Tofu lunges and bites the center of the back of the dog. He was easily pulled off but still wanted to get at the Lab and was barking. I made him do drills of sit and down before entering the dog park. He was totally fine inside the park. I wrote it off as a fluke at the entrance.
Then tonight, that same old Lab enters and Tofu makes a beeline to it. His owner pushes Tofu away but Tofu is barking, lunging and grumbling. I call him and he moves to me while hyper focused on the Lab and circles again to the Lab. Another friendly familiar pup comes by to play with Tofu and Tofu pushes it away roughly because he's still focused on the Lab and trying to figure out a way to get to it. To me, Tofu had a relaxed body language. Could he be playing??? Tofu is normally very good at reading dog body language. I give my "front" command and he executes and we leave the dog park. 

I'm thinking to avoid the dog park for a couple of weeks to re-focus on training. I know most of you are against the dog park but dog wrestling is Tofu's favourite activity, he plays fair even with the dogs 1/4 his size. Another friend says it can just be bad chemistry for Tofu and that this friend's own 11y.o. docile submissive dog barks only at 1 neighbourhood Great Pyrenees. I doubt the Lab's owner will allow me to use his dog as bait to correct my dog. 

What would you do?


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## Hatch (Jul 16, 2015)

If I were you, I would never set foot in a dog park ever again. I would not view this incident as an isolated encounter with a single dog, but rather accept that your dog is highly likely to attack others too. I would recommend finding another outlet to exercise your dog. Much like people, as dogs mature, they change.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I agree. Biting other dogs at a dog park = never going to a dog park again. 

How was the other dog? Did it need veterinary care from the first bite?

Your boy is old enough to run with - I'd start taking him out doing that (mind you I'm biased that way). Fetch in the yard. 

I've had an aggressive dog and it's management, management. It may seem like it sucks to manage but it's better than a serious attack or the liability that comes with it. My aggressive female (adopted by me as an adult with an unknown history) was muzzled when outside due to one incident where I screwed up (we were in our unfenced yard, she was tangled around me. Sitting nicely, I didn't see the other dog approaching so I dropped the leash to untangle. The second the leash hit the ground she took off, got to the other dog, and started to disembowel it. I paid for the vet bills and always had her muzzled from then on. A behaviourist I'd consult said she had experience in killing because only inexperienced dogs go for the throat.) She may be an extreme example, but rather than let your dog get to that point, stay away from dog parks. It's not fair on dogs Tofu may attack and you are setting him up for issues too.


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

jarn said:


> I agree. Biting other dogs at a dog park = never going to a dog park again.
> 
> How was the other dog? Did it need veterinary care from the first bite?


The old Lab didn't have any injury; other than a head turn, it didn't react when bitten in the center of the back and walked away with the owner. Perhaps the dog is too old to buck a dog off/turn around?

And on the second encounter yesterday, it also didn't move while the owner stepped in front to confront Tofu (there was no second bite).


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

“Dog wrestling” should only be allowed with a dog who knows yours, in a controlled environment.
Your dog repeatedly went for a senior.
A dog park is an unpredictable environment, none of the dogs are part of a pack. I would strongly suggest you find another outlet for your dog.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You and your dog are now the dreaded unit that we all worry about when going to a dog park. It's the reason I don't go there. Please stop going


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

You really need to get a bomb proof recall on this dog.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I could give you dozens of successful dog park stories and I could give you dozens of bad to horrifying dog park stories from personal experience (all breeds). End of the day your dog has shown that for whatever reason it will select dog/s to fight or show aggression toward. That in of itself should be enough for you to not go to a dog park with your dog. The environment has so many variables that are uncontrollable. Be thankful you had 18 months of good dog park experiences but...Do yourself and more importantly your dog a favor and leave the dog park behind. Find a new venue/outlet. Your dog just communicated to you that the dog park is not the place he should be. Listen to your dog.


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

What I am wondering is if I and the other owner are misinterpreting the events and Tofu was just being extremely pushy to play with the senior Lab. Obviously, I have a hard time recalling the minute details of his body positioning, posture and any vocalization.
a) When Tofu (on leash) bit him in the mid-back on Monday, the dog did not pull away or buck. The Lab just turned his head. Tofu often initiates play by placing his chin on a dog's back but he's never used his mouth to get a reaction out of a dog. Could the bite have been a way to provoke the Lab into play?
b) The Lab didn't move during both days of encounters (Monday & Wednesday). Could it be that it felt no threat from Tofu?
c) One of Tofu's familiar wrestlers tried to engage Tofu Wednesday in play (which was roughly rejected as Tofu was focused on the Lab). So did this other wrestling dog read a playful body language from Tofu that I'm misinterpreting?


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

wolfy dog said:


> You and your dog are now the dreaded unit that we all worry about when going to a dog park. It's the reason I don't go there. Please stop going


Yes, I don't want to be THAT duo at the park with an unstable dog, making dogs and owners fearful


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

At 18 months Tofu is strapping on his big boy pants. Stop going to the dog park.
He has matured beautifully btw.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

adora155 said:


> What I am wondering is if I and the other owner are misinterpreting the events and Tofu was just being extremely pushy to play with the senior Lab. Obviously, I have a hard time recalling the minute details of his body positioning, posture and any vocalization.
> a) When Tofu (on leash) bit him in the mid-back on Monday, the dog did not pull away or buck. The Lab just turned his head. Tofu often initiates play by placing his chin on a dog's back but he's never used his mouth to get a reaction out of a dog. Could the bite have been a way to provoke the Lab into play?
> b) The Lab didn't move during both days of encounters (Monday & Wednesday). Could it be that it felt no threat from Tofu?
> c) One of Tofu's familiar wrestlers tried to engage Tofu Wednesday in play (which was roughly rejected as Tofu was focused on the Lab). So did this other wrestling dog read a playful body language from Tofu that I'm misinterpreting?


You are making excuses for your dog's aggression. It didn't matter that the Lab didn't cry out in pain. You are lucky you are not being sued. You are the one to be your dog's playmate. Don't rely on other dogs. He has shown his true colors twice too often.


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## happyblond (Sep 14, 2012)

You said it right there in the title of your post

18 month old attacked senior dog at dog park

Please don't be the kind of owner who won't recognise what your dog did,
remember dog's don't always like every dog they meet and there's nothing wrong with that dogs aren't robots... it's what you do after that's what you need to focus on now set your beautiful boy up for success in life.


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

Hi Everyone!
Thanks for setting me straight and giving me your advice! As a few have pointed out, he's 18 months and maturing and possibly changing from the gregarious, playful pup that I know. Still another 18 more months of maturing to go... I ran into 2 other Swiss Shepherd owners who both told me that the most difficult time was at 2.5 years. Oh boy! 

No more dog park... Oh well... Dog parks aren't his only outlet; we survived when they closed for 2 months from the pandemic. At least I won't need to deal with a slimy, muddy dog anymore... Anyone have good video recommendations on teaching personal play (no toys) with a dog or how to wrestle between human and dog?


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## Pytheis (Sep 23, 2016)

It’s too late now, but I absolutely _would not_ have allowed Tofu into the dog park after he did that to another dog. That would have been an immediate correction and straight back to the car in a heel. He was basically rewarded for being aggressive and put into a high energy environment right after biting a dog, which was frankly welcoming another “attack.” I’m glad it didn’t happen that way for you guys.

Aside from that, if he does well with certain dogs regularly, why not get contact information from the owners of those dogs and set up private play dates in your backyard? Or you guys could go on hikes together. Just a thought.


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

Pytheis said:


> It’s too late now, but I absolutely _would not_ have allowed Tofu into the dog park after he did that to another dog. That would have been an immediate correction and straight back to the car in a heel. He was basically rewarded for being aggressive and put into a high energy environment right after biting a dog, which was frankly welcoming another “attack.” I’m glad it didn’t happen that way for you guys.
> 
> Aside from that, if he does well with certain dogs regularly, why not get contact information from the owners of those dogs and set up private play dates in your backyard? Or you guys could go on hikes together. Just a thought.


Yeah, I didn't have the reflexes to immediate discipline him as it never happened before and I was completely perplexed and processing it immediately afterwards.
I live downtown and sadly no one has a backyard. The dog park is like our "communal backyard." I'll just spend our time by tiring him out with training; I've been lax about teaching these past few months.

Playing with husky mix: 



Playing with corgi:


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

I don't know what city in Canada you're in (I live in Toronto) but do you have a car? You could leave the city to go hiking. Before I owned a car I used Zipcar to take Luc places, only downside is they need to be crated and GSDs use big crates. 

I've also run with all my dogs as a great way to get them and me into shape (I tend to need to get more in shape then them). With Agis, I will admit to sometimes walking to High Park and then VERY slowly running on the trails (3k, not far), then walking home (he's still young), and all the while, I'm teaching him mush/gee/haw/whoa as last winter I started skijoring with him and I'd like to do canicross too so he needs to know the commands. So he's working his brain and doing a very easy trot for the most part.

We don't have a backyard either - we're in a building - so I get that that kind of makes things more complicated.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

if you want more information about playing with dogs, try looking up Jay Jack and GRC Dogsports. He is not a German Shepherd guy but with it comes to bonding with your dog by playing with them, he can be a great source of information








Play as the Way: Social Responsibility PLUS Defensive Tactics with GRC Founder Jay Jack


2 full days dedicated to Play-Based Training and Social Responsibility, PLUS a full day dedicated to the critical skills of Defensive Tactics with GRC Founder and internationally renowned dog...




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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

car2ner said:


> if you want more information about playing with dogs, try looking up Jay Jack and GRC Dogsports. He is not a German Shepherd guy but with it comes to bonding with your dog by playing with them, he can be a great source of information
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that tip! GRC can be very helpful. He's still a puppy and likes playing and grabbing with his mouth. It's taken me so long to stop his onslaught on my forearms. I'm really looking forward to learning to play without toys and not end with him chewing on my arms!


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

Curious- why play without toys? Am I missing something? A good game of fetch especially if you insert some control commands will wear out any dog. I use a chuck-it and my fetch maniac loves it. She's careful. My other dog loves fetch but is a bit more extreme-reckless, so I have her wait until the ball stops moving before release. Swimming is also really great exercise in hot weather. 

Training kinda wears a dog out, but not really. Not unless you are really working that brain and body doing tug play or another high energy activity.Training is important, don't get me wrong, but it's not going to replace physical exercise. I hear people say that, and I disagree. 15 minute of obedience and heeling is great for many reasons, but it's not an actual workout for the dog.


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

Muskeg said:


> Curious- why play without toys? Am I missing something? A good game of fetch especially if you insert some control commands will wear out any dog. I use a chuck-it and my fetch maniac loves it. She's careful. My other dog loves fetch but is a bit more extreme-reckless, so I have her wait until the ball stops moving before release. Swimming is also really great exercise in hot weather.
> 
> Training kinda wears a dog out, but not really. Not unless you are really working that brain and body doing tug play or another high energy activity.Training is important, don't get me wrong, but it's not going to replace physical exercise. I hear people say that, and I disagree. 15 minute of obedience and heeling is great for many reasons, but it's not an actual workout for the dog.


Tofu isn't a maniac for fetch. He's of the type that stalk-chase-consume and loses interest in a ball relatively quickly. He hunkers down with toys and rips pieces off. Consuming anything he chases is his ultimate goal and he'll lose interest if I'm constantly asking him to drop it so that we can resume fetch. He is so-so for tug play and I can get at most 10 minutes out of him if adding a bit of wrestling at the same time.
He HATES water, will even skip over puddles and won't go into water even with geese nearby.

Michael Ellis says that it's best to work with the type of play that your dog enjoys the most. Wrestling is Tofu's favourite. Denise Fenzi says that learning to play without toys can be rewarding to the dog on the field where toys are not permitted (I don't plan on competing). It's also nice to go out without being encumbered with toys.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Muskeg said:


> Curious- why play without toys? Am I missing something? A good game of fetch especially if you insert some control commands will wear out any dog. I use a chuck-it and my fetch maniac loves it. She's careful. My other dog loves fetch but is a bit more extreme-reckless, so I have her wait until the ball stops moving before release. Swimming is also really great exercise in hot weather.
> 
> Training kinda wears a dog out, but not really. Not unless you are really working that brain and body doing tug play or another high energy activity.Training is important, don't get me wrong, but it's not going to replace physical exercise. I hear people say that, and I disagree. 15 minute of obedience and heeling is great for many reasons, but it's not an actual workout for the dog.


I agree. A physical workout provides positive chemical changes throughout the entire dog including his mind while also creating good physical conditioning and health. Exercising the mind cannot provide the same.


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## adora155 (Oct 16, 2019)

jarn said:


> I don't know what city in Canada you're in (I live in Toronto) but do you have a car? You could leave the city to go hiking. Before I owned a car I used Zipcar to take Luc places, only downside is they need to be crated and GSDs use big crates.
> 
> I've also run with all my dogs as a great way to get them and me into shape (I tend to need to get more in shape then them). With Agis, I will admit to sometimes walking to High Park and then VERY slowly running on the trails (3k, not far), then walking home (he's still young), and all the while, I'm teaching him mush/gee/haw/whoa as last winter I started skijoring with him and I'd like to do canicross too so he needs to know the commands. So he's working his brain and doing a very easy trot for the most part.
> 
> We don't have a backyard either - we're in a building - so I get that that kind of makes things more complicated.


I used to use a service like Zipcar in Montreal (no crate needed with them, just a towel in the car) but have since bought a car for the convenience. Now that he's 18 months, I might start easing him into some jogging but I have to be on alert as he likely can drag me down during forward momentum if he sees a critter (we're still working on his excitement about chasing animals). There are some canicross trails about 90 minutes away.


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## jarn (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes, there is a dryland in the NCR region I think it is, but on the Quebec side...Bristol? I don't know if it's happened the last couple of years. Not sure how close Montreal is but I don't think it's too bad.

Oh here we go - Bristol Dryland - Championship Dog Race: October 26-27, 2013

Edit - I just checked on Google Maps - ~3 hrs. So it's not at all close. Weirdly I went to Montreal once to watch some dogs do French Ring and stayed in Ontario and I did that drive there and back in one evening.


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## Stuckey (Feb 1, 2020)

Beautiful dog, to bad this happened. No more dog park if I were you. (Honestly even if your dog hadn’t done this, I think dog parks are overrated. but maybe it’s just me.)


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

How about nose-work and search games?


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

No more dog park until your dog can be trusted. I feel bad for the poor old lab.


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## Bebe (Apr 17, 2011)

Muskeg said:


> Curious- why play without toys? Am I missing something? A good game of fetch especially if you insert some control commands will wear out any dog. I use a chuck-it and my fetch maniac loves it. She's careful. My other dog loves fetch but is a bit more extreme-reckless, so I have her wait until the ball stops moving before release. Swimming is also really great exercise in hot weather.


My boy has a basket full of toys, none of which he is interested in. He will play tug but he is so strong that doesn't last long for me. He is as strong as a bull.

*He is very ball possessive*. I have a FETCH IT stick and must have to balls to play with him. I have tried and tried to train him but even when you immediately stop play and leave him he has never changed his behavior. If I have two balls, he immediately puts the other ball at my feel and is ready for the next throw.

I have 14 grandchildren and I don't let them play ball with them unless they are older and truly understands the two ball game.

Other than that he is as sweet as can be. He carefully walks around the little ones to not step on them. He puts up with a lot of hugging (and he not a hugger, weird) and brushing. I did find out in this forum that some dogs don't like to be hugged but they rather lean into you as their hug. I've never had a dog like this but do what you dog is comfortable with.


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## WNGD (Jan 15, 2005)

Dog park entrances and exits are the source of a huge number of dog park altercations. That and ball/throw possession altercations. 

And many dog altercations result in human/owner altercations; if your dog bit mine, we'd likely have words....many dog park people are extremely ....odd


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