# Breeder puts prospective puppy buyer into tears



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Let's say you know someone who needs or wants your help. They contacted a well known and reputable breeder. They wanted to update the breeder on their situation and ask some questions. Well, the breeder is so mean and nasty to them, that they come to you crying and very upset.

What would you tell this person? Is it their fault and they got what they deserved, or is the breeder wrong for being so mean and ugly? Should they still buy from the breeder?


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

ummmmm.....what is the WHOLE story? To many facts missing to form any kind of opinion.

If the person is uncomfortable with the breeder then they need to look elsewhere for everyone's sake, regardless of "who" might be at fault.


----------



## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

there's a few holes in the story. I"ve met a few that would start crying if their dog farted funny and others you'd have to berate and steal a child from to get to start to shed a tear. The fact that someone cried doesn't say much about what happened.


----------



## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

Even if we aren't hearing the whole story, the breeder and this puppy buyer are obviously not a match. For whatever reason, the breeder has taken a dislike to these people. My advise would be to tell your friend to keep looking.


----------



## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

I agree with Marnie- there should be a good, or at least comfortable, relationship between buyer and breeder. If I were the buyer I would go elsewhere, unless it's a misunderstanding that can be cleared up on both sides


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I guess I'd want to hear the whole conversation. I could never make an assumption off of the little information you provided


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Huh?


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Just find another breeder already!


----------



## iloveshepherds (Jul 10, 2012)

and not to sound mean, but if a breeder brought them to tears, maybe they should think of owning a golden retriever.  
a german shepherd needs a confident owner.


----------



## TaZoR (Jan 26, 2012)

No one should be mean, avoid contact is my best advice. Advice can be sought eleswhere by informed reputable breeders. If a situation has occurred that prohibits tgeir ability to properly care for a pup, it can be handled with tact and consideration.


----------



## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

Stosh said:


> I agree with Marnie- there should be a good, or at least comfortable, relationship between buyer and breeder. If I were the buyer I would go elsewhere, unless it's a misunderstanding that can be cleared up on both sides


Based on the info you have given us...or lack of it, I agree with this.
IMO, a breeder and buyer should be comfortable enough to discuss things...At the very least _for the sake of the dog_. 

Sure, people have differences of opinions and don't always agree on everything. 

BUT, if something comes up concerning the dog ( health or behavior issues, etc)...can your friend talk to the breeder? If not, OP should walk away. I've been there...not a good thing.


----------



## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

There is no where near enough information provided here to say who in the conversation may have been "right" and who may have been "wrong".

It is possible the breeder was truly mean and nasty. It is just as possible that the breeder was merely telling the buyer something that the buyer didn't want to hear and as happens often, including here on this board, the buyer preferred to interpret it as mean and nasty rather than accept hearing something that they didn't want to.

As a breeder myself, my perspective is that my responsibility is first to my puppies. Responsiblity to my buyers is secondary. And if the two are at odds with one another, the puppies trump the buyer. That means if I feel the buyer is doing something against the welfare of the pups, I'm going to say so. And while I will do it as tactfully as possible, the buyer's feelings about it aren't the major concern. The puppy is. And there are some people on whom tact doesn't work, and one has to be brutally honest and blunt to get the message across. I would never be intentionally "mean and nasty" but I'm not going to molly coddle someone at the expense of the pup. Sometimes that may mean upsetting a buyer, not because it's intended to but because as the saying goes, the truth hurts sometimes. 

Not saying that was the case here. With no information we cannot know what actually transpired. Just sharing a breeder's perspective about where priorities lie, and pointing out that what may be seen as mean and nasty by some people is often nothing more than something that needed to be said but the person didn't want to hear.

I do agree that there should be if not a close relationship, at least a cordial and respectful one, between buyer and breeder. If that cannot exist in this situation, than the buyer should seek out another breeder where it can. But at the same time, if similar things occur with other breeders it would behove the buyer to step back and consider things closely because it is more likely that the fault may lie with the buyer than it is that multiple breeders are mean and nasty.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Okay, here it is:

1. Person messages me and we get to talking. She's looking to buy a reputable GSD breeder. I recommend the breeder to her. Note: I've spoken to the breeder myself. She came across as okay, not overly friendly. 

2. Person keeps me updated with communication with breeder. Person is in college and has years before buying a puppy. Person takes my recommendation of contacting the breeder every so often with updates on her situation.

3. Person calls me months or year later and tells me breeder is ignoring her phone calls and emails. Says she doesn't understand why.

4. Maybe 4 months ago, manages to get in touch with the breeder to have the breeder acting strange. Breeder is cold and distant toward person. 

*5. Recently, person comes to me in tears and tells about a conversation. Person contacted the breeder to inform breeder of updates, have a general convo and ask questions. Breeder is just plain nasty, even yells at her. Breeder says she found out person has talked to other breeders. Breeder doesn't elaborate why talking to other breeders would make her cold and distant. Person, almost in tears, tries to ask some questions, and breeder yells the answer into the phone. Person and breeder end convo.*

6. Person comes to me in tears asking about how reputable breeders are. I ask what happened, why so many questions? Person explains it to me. I have no idea what to say. My thoughts are what is the problem? Do breeders have a problem with a prospective puppy buyer looking around?
Or is there something else going on here?

I have no idea.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

It sounds to me like your "friend" is just a bit emotional. Even though the breeder might have been out of line for yelling, I also don't know if it was truly yelling (you're getting the story from the person that feels wronged). I know that on this forum a lot of people suggest contacting the breeders you would like months and sometimes years in advance, but a lot of times I just think that's wrong. At the base of the breeder/puppy buyer relationship is just a producer/consumer relationship. To invest that much time and effort into that kind of relationship is sometimes overkill. Many breeders have day jobs, have to train their dogs, they don't really care to talk to a puppy buyer every month for a year before they purchase a dog. These people might produce 10-20 puppies a year, that's 20 customers (and if they're a good reputable breeder there isn't a shortage of customers), that's also a customer that might repeat in 5, 10, or no years at all, so a relationship with that person isn't like a friend, its a business relationship at its core.

Should someone ever make another person cry? No, but I also don't understand why your friend was so upset. Just go find another breeder. This is the second most popular breed in the United States. There are good breeders everywhere. One bad experience shouldn't lead anyone to think all breeders are like that, its like going to a car dealership and having a bad experience and thinking all the rest are just as bad.

Always remember, you as a puppy buyer aren't the last one they'll ever see, and they are also not the only breeder that's producing good dogs. If you don't really have a goal in mind for the dog, and aren't knowledgeable enough to demand a certain line, or really want a certain mix of lines, it really shouldn't matter what breeder the dog comes from as long as they have a reputation of producing good quality dogs.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Two things immediately strike me as odd.

1. Why would a breeder be mad that a person has talked to other breeders? Sounds like the breeder just wants to make a sale and is mad that your "friend" has been talking to the "competition"... not a good sign. Reputable breeders respect one another, refer to one another, and are generally supportive of one another.

2. Why would your "friend" wind up in tears over this? The breeder sounds like a horse's patoot, but that's no reason to get overly emotional. Another poster mentioned that it takes a strong, emotionally stable person to own a GSD and I tend to agree. A person this "soft" in temperament probably wouldn't be suited to a big, strong, potentially aggressive breed. Maybe she should get a toy poodle.


----------



## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

Freestep said:


> 2. Why would your "friend" wind up in tears over this? The breeder sounds like a horse's patoot, but that's no reason to get overly emotional. Another poster mentioned that it takes a strong, emotionally stable person to own a GSD and I tend to agree. A person this "soft" in temperament probably wouldn't be suited to a big, strong, potentially aggressive breed. Maybe she should get a toy poodle.


:thumbup:


----------



## Marnie (Oct 11, 2011)

martemchik said:


> It sounds to me like your "friend" is just a bit emotional. Even though the breeder might have been out of line for yelling, I also don't know if it was truly yelling (you're getting the story from the person that feels wronged).


It's hard to take this seriously. If you call someone and they are cold and distant, that means they don't want to talk to you. She should have taken the hint and left the breeder alone before he got hostile. And she does sound overly emotional, really. Who knows what the breeder thought. The questions she asked might have annoyed him. In any case, she probably couldn't buy a pup from that breeder if she wanted to so why all the analysis. Lots more breeders to choose from. 

I refused to sell a horse to a lady once and she sicked a lawyer on me. Lookers think others owe them a lot of personal time because they may or may not be a potential buyer. She needs to respect the breeders and in return look for a breeder who is friendly and likes to chit chat about dogs with novices. I have been on the other end of situations like this. I often call 'breeders' who advertise locally and inquire about their 'championship bloodlines' and 'imported lines'. I enjoy pressuring them until they admit that they can't even show me a pedigree let alone point out the champion ancestry. Imported means one parent was from Caledonia, 20 mile down the road. I've never had one cry but it wouldn't bother me.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Okay, I'll tell her. Hopefully she'll continue her search.


----------



## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

How exactly is it that you got involved in this? Was this a person you blindly contacted to recommend a breeder? or is this actually a friend you know in person?


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is another good example as to why one should not make recommendations willy-nilly about breeders one does not have personal experience with. You may have heard good things about them, you may be impressed by their website, they may score high on your checklist of things to look for in a responsible breeder, but bottom line, you don't really know them, their personality, their business ethics, their motivation for breeding and selling, and it can all come crashing down. 

So when people ask for recommendations, be clear that you like some of the things that you have read or seen on their website, but do not know them personally and had never had any dealing with them, so you cannot in good conscience recommend them, but are interested in finding out more about them.


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Excellent advice, Lucia!! I caught myself just today almost recommending a couple local-ish breeders on the "Breeders in Indiana" thread. But I stopped myself when I realized I've neither met them in person nor talked to the breeders on the phone. I know their reputation, but that's about it. I definitely agree that people do need to be careful about willy-nilly recommendations. And you also give a lot of _practical_ examples of how one can share a breeder they only know by reputation/website/etc. Nice post!


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, you should never make someone cry. But I really don't know what a stranger, who really wants to sell her puppies could say to a prospective buyer that would make them cry, except maybe, "I will not sell you a puppy, sorry." And why should they say that when they could say, $3,500. Non-refundable deposit of $1800. If someone still wants to commit to that, well, you can always tell them that the puppy didn't make it. I am talking about someone you really do not want to sell a puppy to for some reason.

On the other hand you can have a lot of situations where someone can become emotional and it is no fault of the breeder:

Caller: Hi, remember me?
Breeder: Yes, you are the college student that wants to buy a puppy in 2015, after you finish school, get a job, and buy a house. 

Caller: Yeah! I just wanted to let you know I was still interested.
Breeder: I have you on my list of possible owners.

Caller: I checked into puppy training like you said.
Breeder: Good what did you find out?

[After twenty minutes of varied conversation about puppy training]

Caller: I am not sure I want a puppy. I mean, maybe I should get a dog who is beyond the puppy stage.
Breeder: Mmmm, Maybe that would be a good idea, what are you thinking about?

Caller: Well, I really want a puppy but I am afraid I will not do something right. 
Breeder: Sometimes it does make sense to start with an adult dog and get your feet wet.

Caller: But what if the dog is aggressive?
Breeder: Where are you wanting to get an adult dog from?

Caller: I don't know. 
Breeder: Have you considered walking the dogs at the pound near your school?

Caller: No, they don't like me.
Breeder: Who doesn't? The dogs?

Caller: No the people at the pound, they won't let me walk them.
Breeder: (scratching head) Oh. 

Caller: Well, I just wanted to let you know that I am still interested.
Breeder: In a puppy? 

Caller: Well, yes a puppy, in a couple of years. Well, it might be longer, maybe 2016, 
Breeder: Ok.

Caller: Yeah, I had to change my major.
Breeder: Ok. What are you changing to?

Caller: Well, I still have to decide that.
Breeder: Ok. 

Caller: Do you think I should do anything more before getting a puppy.
Breeder: You might want to read books about the breed.

Caller: Oh, I do. 
Breeder: Well, I have to leave for dog-class.

Caller: Oh, ok. You don't want to talk to me?
Breeder: No, I just have dog classes starting in 35 minutes and I have to get my dog there.

Caller: Ok. I understand. 
Breeder: Ok, Good luck this semester.

Caller: Good bye.
Breeder: Good bye.

[Breeder goes to dog class, Caller thinks about the call]

Caller thinks: The breeder doesn't want to talk to me. She doesn't think I will do ok with a puppy. She doesn't think I should have a dog. She wants me to go get a dog from the pound. What does she know anyway? READ BOOKS! I probably read more books about this breed that she has! She won't sell me a dog. She doesn't like me. I can tell. 


I have talked to a LOT of people, and some of them I do not want to sell a dog. I have spent hours on the phone with people convincing them NOT to get a puppy, and least not yet. I have talked to people that have told me horror stories about their past dogs, and I don't mean problems with the dog, but methods they have used on the dogs to train them, and how they lost their last seven dogs. 

Yes, most of the people I talk to, are perfectly fine people and will probably be great owners. And I love to hear updates from people on how they are doing with their pups. But there are people who have called, over and over and over again, give people enough rope and they will hang themselves. When people are on the fence as to whether to get a dog or a puppy, whether to get a GSD or a dachsund, whether to get one sooner or later, whether to get a male or a female, whether they should not get a dog at all. There comes a time, when you have dogs that want to eat, or need to go to class, or other people calling or a day job, and sometimes you are not in the best mood. Shouting at them? Well, I suppose there are probably crazy breeders as well as crazy callers. But why shout when you can just say calmly, "please do not call again."


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

GSD Fan said:


> Okay, here it is:
> 
> 1. Person messages me and we get to talking. She's looking to buy a reputable GSD breeder. I recommend the breeder to her. Note: I've spoken to the breeder myself. She came across as okay, not overly friendly.
> 
> ...


my first question would be - how often have they been "updating" the breeder? Honestly unless she is looking at getting a pup from a litter that is currently planned, I'd say once a year is more than enough. And not to update on her situation but to just say hello and give some info on what you like about her breeding program in the last year. IE "I've seen some of the pups from your Blah and Blah Blah litter at a local show. I'm very impressed with how they have grown. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes from your kennel in the future." And not necessarily a phone call. Maybe an email. Or even just a post on her facebook wall. For me, anymore contact than that (for someone looking to buy in more than 12 months or so) is going to get annoying fast.

Yes, keeping in touch with the breeder and letting them now if things change in your situation is good. Too much contact, though, is going to backfire. 

To me, it sounds like she has been contacting this breeder for at least a year on numerous occasions. I'd say that it was less that your friend was talking to other breeders than that her actions said "I have chosen you as my breeder" and the breeder spent a LOT of time on the phone or in communication with them. 

To your point #1. How friendly do you expect them to be? It takes time for a relationship to develop. How many conversations did you base your opinion on? As someone said, breeders are very busy people. Sometimes they have too much going on to have a long friendly chat with someone who is window shopping. 

I don't see any reason to fault the breeder. There seems to be too much of a difference in expectations. For me, I would tell your friend to start hanging around in German Shepherd forums, groups, clubs. Perhaps check to see if there is a local kennel club that she can volunteer with. I know that our club is always looking for people to help with projects and shows. 
If she wants to keep in contact with a breeder then become friends with them outside the shopping itself. Be knowledgeable about their breeding program. What are their dogs producing and what does she like about them. Be up front with saying "I am learning what I want in a GSD. This is what I like about your dog Blah Blah. I see that you have a litter planned for her this spring. I won't be ready for a dog then but I can't wait to see how they grow out."


----------



## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

wildo said:


> Excellent advice, Lucia!! I caught myself just today almost recommending a couple local-ish breeders on the "Breeders in Indiana" thread. But I stopped myself when I realized I've neither met them in person nor talked to the breeders on the phone. I know their reputation, but that's about it. I definitely agree that people do need to be careful about willy-nilly recommendations. And you also give a lot of _practical_ examples of how one can share a breeder they only know by reputation/website/etc. Nice post!


Now that we've heard more of the story...I gather that she/he ( your friend) isn't even ready to buy a puppy for awhile!? 

(based on your earlier post, I believed this person had already put down a deposit and was buying immediately. Not so, I see.)

It's possible the breeder came across as rude...I don't know that for sure. Breeders are busy. I can understand that the breeder is probably concerned with CURRENT buyers more so than a potential one in two years.

If the breeder got annoyed that she was contacting other breeders...that's a sign to walk away. I don't know many people who don't look around before they buy. 

I do believe MOST breeders are interested and available to their buyers. They may not be 'friends' but should be available in case the buyer or new owner has questions/ concerns...after all, those pups carry their kennel name and they know the history of Dam/Sire better. (Having said that, there are a FEW breeders who end the relationship/ contact altogether once the $ changes hands...only seen that twice though)

As for how YOU should react or say to your friend. What's to say? It's not your fault things went the way they did. 
Is she/ he is BLAMING you for this interaction?
IMO, That's just silly.
If thats the case, I wouldn't make any future references to them...about anything.


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Dainerra said:


> To me, it sounds like she has been contacting this breeder for at least a year on numerous occasions. I'd say that it was less that your friend was talking to other breeders than that her actions said "I have chosen you as my breeder" and the breeder spent a LOT of time on the phone or in communication with them.


That's a good point. It may in fact be the case that the breeder has spent hours of valuable time on this person, only to have her turn around and say something to the effect of "I haven't decided if I'm going to get a puppy from YOU, or from someone else" ....and the breeder had just had enough, and lost their temper.

I have to admit, I get annoyed when I get people calling me who won't let me off the dang phone, asking a ton of questions, telling me about their personal life, etc., in the middle of the workday when I have a LOT to do... and THEN they say "Oh, I've been calling around to other groomers and I'll let you know what I decide." 

It's a waste of my time, and time is money. I don't mind answering questions and giving advice on my own time, but if someone is taking time away from my day and giving nothing back but grief, it's not cool.


----------



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

KatsMuse, I think you quoted the wrong person... I am not the OP.


----------



## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

wildo said:


> KatsMuse, I think you quoted the wrong person... I am not the OP.


OMG! I did...so sorry!!! . I was trying to quote the agreement about not recommending breeders sometimes.... It was Lucia who made a good point. 
Please Forgive me, wildo.


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

If I was a breeder it would drive me insane to get continual updates from someone who may or may not be interested in buying a pup. A few calls in the beginning to see if it's a breeder you like, and then a call to reserve a pup or to say you're interested in knowing if they'll have pups available next fall etc. because you're ready to buy one seems like enough. Okay...maybe a few calls after the pups are born because you can't contain your excitement.  

I agree with the person that said it takes time to build a relationship with a breeder and truthfully, I think it's more likely to happen after you own one of their dogs rather than before. Breeders on forums are real good about giving advice and answering questions but it's on their time. I think your friend might have called that breeder one too many times.


----------



## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

there's 4 parts to this story, the OP's story, the buyers story, the
breeders story and the what really happened story.



Marnie said:


> Even if we aren't hearing the whole story, the breeder and this puppy buyer are obviously not a match. For whatever reason, the breeder has taken a dislike to these people. My advise would be to tell your friend to keep looking.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Whiteshepherds said:


> I agree with the person that said it takes time to build a relationship with a breeder and truthfully, I think it's more likely to happen after you own one of their dogs rather than before. Breeders on forums are real good about giving advice and answering questions but it's on their time. I think your friend might have called that breeder one too many times.


I think it is possible to develop a relationship with a breeder before you are ready to get on a waiting list. However, it is a different relationship than one would have with someone who are buying from. If that makes sense?

I met Chuck here on the forum. We developed a relationship long before I was even thinking of getting a puppy. BUT I was a member of the same groups and had a relationship outside the "puppy process". We discussed training tactics and dogs in general. He offered advice and we were just friends. 
When I was ready to shop, then our relationship changed a bit. I talked with him about what I was looking for in a puppy in more depth. He made recommendations on what would be a good match for me. Still friends but with another aspect to our friendship.
Now that I own a dog of his breeding, our relationship is again a bit different. We are, of course, still friends. I get training advice and share brags. Again, just another aspect to our relationship.

However, the friendship came first and on its own. Perhaps your friend could join a forum or club as I said earlier? It's a great way to network and meet breeders while learning a lot about the breed.


----------



## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Whiteshepherds said:


> If I was a breeder it would drive me insane to get continual updates from someone who may or may not be interested in buying a pup. A few calls in the beginning to see if it's a breeder you like, and then a call to reserve a pup or to say you're interested in knowing if they'll have pups available next fall etc. because you're ready to buy one seems like enough. Okay...maybe a few calls after the pups are born because you can't contain your excitement.
> 
> I agree with the person that said it takes time to build a relationship with a breeder and truthfully, I think it's more likely to happen after you own one of their dogs rather than before. Breeders on forums are real good about giving advice and answering questions but it's on their time. I think your friend might have called that breeder one too many times.


I agree.

I think the buyer here has some unrealistic expectations. We live in a busy world and spending hours and hours over years talking to someone who is window shopping may not be everybody's idea of fun. Why would the breeder be interested in updates from someone who may or may not buy a puppy in several years. Avoiding conversations and being distant were clear signs that the buyer was overstepping and invading someone's space. When the more subtle signs did not work, apparently the person lost his patience. Cannot say I blame them.

The OP'a friend comes across as needy, insecure and emotional. Not everybody enjoys that. I think most breeders are dedicated to their puppies, but they are not necessarily required to form a deep friendship with the buyer.


----------



## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

RebelGSD said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think the buyer here has some unrealistic expectations. We live in a busy world and spending hours and hours over years talking to someone who is window shopping may not be everybody's idea of fun. Why would the breeder be interested in updates from someone who may or may not buy a puppy in several years. Avoiding conversations and being distant were clear signs that the buyer was overstepping and invading someone's space. When the more subtle signs did not work, apparently the person lost his patience. Cannot say I blame them.
> 
> The OP'a friend comes across as needy, insecure and emotional. Not everybody enjoys that. I think most breeders are dedicated to their puppies, but they are not necessarily required to form a deep friendship with the buyer.


Yup. Makes a lot of sense to me. The breeder is only going to answer so many questions when you're nothing more than a possible, potential future buyer. It could/would get annoying when it went on long-term with no plan/commitment.

I had a lot of contact with Dolly's breeder, (non-gsd) prior to making the commitment and placing the deposit, but I was also ready to make the move. I was ready to go once she and I had talked and agreed on terms. She put me thru the ringer, haha -- and I'm glad she did. She cared. She wasn't just letting her pups go "anywhere." She was gracious, and answered every question I had prior to my placing a deposit, but I can't imagine I could've drug that out for years? and expected her continued communication. 

I'm not a breeder, of course, nor do I ever wish to try to be one, but if I were, I can see eventually losing my patience with someone who didn't seem to be ready to move ahead. This breeder's bedside manner might be pretty poor, but I'm just as concerned about your friend's seemingly easily hurt feelings. I think this breed requires a stronger personality.

Maybe it is a blessing in disguise for all.


----------



## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Personally, when I was breeding I didn't really want to spend years getting to know a buyer. I mean I wanted to know a lot about them, their goals, their skills, what training is available in their area, etc, but did I want regular updates from them, uhmmmm, no. 
An email every now and then would be good, but I don't have time to chat on the phone to hear about how their life is going. I have a husband, kids, a kennel, my friends (many of them aren't' even dog people :0), and don't really have the time to add to that. Don't get me wrong, I have made some great friends through the dog world, but I don't need a blow by blow account of someone's life. If someone is not thinking they will be ready for a pup for a few years and we've spoken a few times and I know you are in limbo (which is fine) then leave it be until you get a bit closer. 
I have these people who are "interested" in Schutzhund. First their other dog was too old, now they have a new pup and keep checking in with me about "coming by". The new pup is now about 7-8 months old and is sitting around doing nothing I'm sure. I don't really care, it's not like I'm just dying for them to come out to our club (with 2-3 helpers that can't come every practice, it gets tight). I have gotten to the point that all my answers to her are now one word or even nothing. It's like they think I'm all excited to think that they might bring their dog out. When they're interested they will, until then, leave me the _*** Edited by MOD *** _ alone about it .


----------



## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Oh, Mylanta. I've had several of these. I guess I'm too open and willing to talk about dogs at first because a few have kept calling...and emailing....for YEARS. Then, they send a deposit, the breeding didn't work out, I forward it to the next breeding (one heat cycle away) and they decide they don't want to wait and want their deposit back, pronto. I'm thinking, exCUSE me??? You have harassed me continually for TWO YEARS, I have spent HOURS of my life on the phone with you, trying to guide you properly, not to mention email upon email upon email, and now when I have a bit of bad luck, you're not willing to give me 4 months on a dog you've been anticipating for 2 years?! 

So, I sent an email, saying if we were no longer in a buyer/seller relationship, since I was refunding their deposit, I had figured what they owe me in personal counseling/consulting and I would settle for half, which was just over $7000 at my hourly rate.  Of course, they realized I was joking but it at least made them think twice. I did refund their money, but holy cow...I'm a breeder, a busy one at that, I work full time, I have a toddler...and I care not to provide free counseling to the general public who thinks nothing of anyone but themselves. I would be humiliated to pull something like that, personally, but in this "breeders are evil and people to be suspicious of," it's just assumed that there must be something wrong with us if we grow weary of entertaining you after a few YEARS. Get a freaking life, and get a shrink.


----------



## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah I guess I'm a little more "heartless" when it comes to this kind of stuff. A dog is a product and although I keep contact with my breeder, its through facebook and we'll send each other updates and they get to see my posts/updates about what I'm doing with Rooney. I don't really believe I need to establish a relationship with a future breeder, at least not that far in advance, I'll call, tell them what I want, my previous history with the breed, and that should be enough. Sorry if this hurts some breeder's feelings, but if you don't believe my "qualifications" are good enough to get a puppy from you, I'll call the one next door to you and see if they'll give me a pup. Luckily, this market is extremely well balanced, especially for us companion homes + a little bit of work homes.

Funny enough, I already have my next breeder picked out. And I have a relationship with them through my dog club. We have trained together and are currently on the same team obedience team. So that's the only reason I really have a relationship that's more than the one I had with my first breeder.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Jax08 said:


> How exactly is it that you got involved in this? Was this a person you blindly contacted to recommend a breeder? or is this actually a friend you know in person?


Blind contact that I somewhat got to know, she contacted me, not me contacting her.

This thread is disturbing. 

First, we got people who are saying, "Well then the GSD breed may not be for her. GSDs are aggressive dogs." I've never read GSDs are aggressive. Never. I've seen and read cases of bites and all, but if a breed IS aggressive, *I *don't even want one. I am around young children and I myself don't want to be on guard all the time so I won't get bit. Dominant breed is one thing, aggressive is another. I don't know anyone who needs an aggressive dog. 

Secondly, the most disturbing thing about this thread. I believe her. She came to me crying for comfort and asking are these so called reputable breeders I praise all like this. Yes, that's passing judgement, but first impressions are important. Now, the GSD breeder she talked to is a GSD person, just like you guys. So she may think like you guys. Therefore, that tells me that a number of people in the breed I may not prefer. I've been on this forum 2 years and you've got so many GSD people on here who just start drama. I believe her. She is a very sweet person and kind hearted. Now, she's not perfect and had the breeder started treating me like that, I'd marked her off my list and wouldn't even consider her, regardless of how good her dogs are. 

This thread is discouraging. Heck, maybe I should get out of the GSD breed since they're aggressive. I don't need an aggressive dog and don't know anyone who does. Before you jump in and say, "Well, maybe you have soft temperment too." Really? So I guess siberian huskies are an easy breed for soft temperment people.


----------



## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

For whatever reason she didn't click with the breeder-its not the end of the world-there are lots of other breeders out there and other breeds too-the people who posted on here don't know her-their opinions shouldn't matter much


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> I've never read GSDs are aggressive. Never.


Uhhhh.....

Aggression is supposed to be part of this breed. It shouldn't be inappropriate (Biting just to bite), but they should possess a natural desire/need to guard and protect.

I have a dog in my house that has done bite work and he takes such work very seriously. Just last week, he was walking across my lawn, a 2 year old child T boned him (ran right into his ribcage). She fell down, he kept walking. He didn't even acknowledge he had been slammed into.

This same dog has saved my life.



> So I guess siberian huskies are an easy breed for soft temperment people.


Comparatively? Heck yes. Sibes require a completely different kind of owner. Namely, one who enjoys being made a fool out of, and one who enjoys trying to out think their dog.

I despise doing both those things, and enjoy my "aggressive" "pushbutton" GSDs.

Sibes do not do well with strong willed owners, as it becomes a battle of the wills. GSDs NEED a strong willed owner, not to dominate them, but to give them VERY clear boundaries and rules so they understand how the game of life must be played.

I have friends that have thought they wanted a GSD. I've handed them Strauss, and within 10 minutes to an hour, they decide that a GSD is not for them.

There's nothing wrong with Strauss. He's a normal GSD. He's pushy, he is intelligent, and he is a HUGE opportunist. You show that dog a weakness, and he will exploit it to the best of his ability while making you a laughing stock. And then he'll look at you, almost smug, and say "So there!" while daring you to try and make him comply with your wishes.

He won't pull that crap with me or my husband, or people he knows really well, but he will test his limits with EVERY new person in his life. He can manipulate situations like nobody's business.

Is he a hard dog? No. Is he a dog that should be owned/raised by a person with a soft, permissive, meek personality? HECK NO! He'd take over the house and never give up his position.

Just food for thought.


----------



## lemans (Jun 18, 2005)

opcorn:


----------



## Lakl (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't think this thread is disturbing at all. Everyone says, "get out there, talk to breeders, get a feel for them and their dogs. I agree that breeders are very busy people, and anything past the initial contact to learn about them, their dogs, and their goals are unnecessary unless you are inquiring about a specific breeding. Why keep calling a breeder to update them on your situation if you have no firm intention of getting a pup from them? 

The breeder was probably harsh, but they were probably was also under the impression that they were your friend's choice for a pup, since she continued to call. Past the initial contact, unless a breeder is added to the top of my list AND I have specific breedings I want to inquire about, I see no reason to keep calling or emailing. I don't think this makes the breeder a bad choice because they got annoyed that they spent a lot of time talking to your friend and taking her calls only to find out she was still shopping elsewhere. I think I would be annoyed too if I were a breeder.


----------



## KatsMuse (Jun 5, 2012)

GSD Fan said:


> Blind contact that I somewhat got to know, she contacted me, not me contacting her.
> 
> This thread is disturbing.
> 
> ...



IMO, you just answered the initial question you had beginning in this thread. 

_Now we're getting completely off topic..._

(You asked us what we'd do and what we thought...)

Wishing you and your friend good luck.


----------



## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

As someone who doesn't plan on getting a GSD for a year or two, I can see why your friend probably wants to call all the time. It's exciting, even if it's just going to be a fantasy for the next couple of years. I'll sit there and stare at a breeder's website forever. 

One breeder, I took an interest in. Had awesome dogs, I recognized some of the dogs in the pedigree (which is amazing for me, since I don't actually KNOW the dogs like some people on here do). I sent her an e-mail telling her what I was looking for in a dog, asked some questions about her dogs, etc. etc. I also made it very clear I wasn't looking for a dog anytime soon. 

After we sent a few e-mails back and forth, I thanked her and left her alone for a while. Then when mine and my boyfriend's anniversary was coming up, we requested that day off and asked the breeder if we could come meet her dogs. A couple more e-mails, we ended up going to visit. We were there for a few hours talking to the breeder and watching the dogs, and I enjoyed every second of it. Though the breeder wasn't seeping with friendliness, she was CLEARLY passionate about the breed and took pride in her dogs. 

I sent her an e-mail, thanking her for showing me her dogs, blah blah blah. 
I haven't bugged her since then, because I know she has a lot more important things to do and has other, more current buyers she needs to focus on. Surely, she wouldn't want to be pestered by someone who doesn't plan on getting a GSD in upwards of two years. When the time comes and I'm ready to get a puppy, then yes - I will likely be a priority to her as a potential buyer. But now? No way. 

I will admit, it's difficult to restrain myself from sending her e-mails sometimes, but I don't want to become a nuisance. Instead, I'll just drool over the dogs on her website and reminisce on our visit.


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

i agree with Ozzy's moms post on how she is handling things.

I am not a breeder, I do think the breeder in this case could have maybe handled things a little better by not yelling at the person, (tho again, I don't have specifics of the conversation!) . However, I think the person interested in their puppies doesn't need to continually call/email them with their "life" updates.

People have busy lives and I know IF I were a breeder, I wouldn't need nor desire updates on a potential buyers 'life' years in advance of them getting a puppy. 

As for gsd's being aggressive..Again, aggression is part of the breed, appropriate aggression. 

I know you (OP) have wanted a gsd for a long time, but they may not be the breed for you. They are a STRONG breed and most need a STRONG person to handle them. I know quite some time ago, people suggested you go out and meet these dogs, if I recall correctly you went to one show..You need much more exposure to get an idea of what your potentially dealing with. 

I also think referring people via the net on 'breeders' that your unfamiliar with is not a 'good' thing especially since you are more book educated than real life educated when it comes to breeders/these dogs.

Advising people on what to LOOK for in a breeder is one thing and I think valuable, and I don't mean to sound harsh at all, it's not my intent, just some friendly advice.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

KatsMuse said:


> IMO, you just answered the initial question you had beginning in this thread.
> 
> _Now we're getting completely off topic..._
> 
> ...


That's just what I would do, but I wanted thoughts and to hear tendencies of breeders from objective people.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Xeph said:


> *Sibes do not do well with strong willed owners*, as it becomes a battle of the wills. GSDs NEED a strong willed owner, not to dominate them, but to give them VERY clear boundaries and rules so they understand how the game of life must be played.


I call BS.

One of the guys who used to mentor me and still has a good relationship with me, he knew sibes in and out. Siberians do well WITH a strong willed owner. You can ask him, ask any siberian breeder out there, and ask even siberian owners, including me, a former owner.

Meh, it's whatever you'd like to think. 

From everything I've read, German Shepherds are dominant but not bad aggressive dogs. Like Jack said, there's good and bad aggression. It's bad aggression I'm talking about. However, maybe the person who said GSDs were aggressive was talking about the aggression needed to do work.


----------



## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Tendencies of breeders... What is that ? They are people. They have different goals and personalities.
I think people expect something other than a professional transaction from breeders because they sell dogs. But buyers need to understand that at the end of the day, this is not much different from buying anything else. People would not dream of doing this at a car dealership, calling and updating on their life years before they are ready to buy. Why on earth would anyone do this to a breeder?


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I guess everyone's point is - you are recommending breeders to people, yet you have no real knowledge of the breed. Your friend might be a great home for a more laid-back GSD but probably not for a dog from a breeder who shoots for a more civil dog. Both dogs can be found from good responsible breeders but the chances are much better with certain lines. There is much more to the GSD than just finding a breeder who fits the guidelines of "responsible". You also have to choose a breeder who fits your lifestyle. At one point in my life, a dog like Singe would have been too much for me. When I was ready, I sought out a breeder who fit my criteria in the dog I wanted first, then a responsible breeder. After all, it would have done no good to find a responsible showline breeder when that is not the type of dog I was interested in. Doesn't mean that those breeders aren't responsible, just not what I was looking for at the time.

No one is taking a bad view of your friend. It just seems that her contact with the breeder is a bit excessive. Why did you tell her to keep in contact with the breeder? What KIND of contact was it? It sounds like she was making regular phone calls of "just wanted to say hi. I'm still not ready for a dog, going to be a couple years. Just wanted to let you know my life updates....." Honestly, that would get old after a couple of phone calls. Think of the elderly lady who lives alone and stops by to chat 3-4 days a week. Yes, you like talking to her but dang, sometimes you have other things to do!

As I and others have suggested, a phone call of initial interest "Hey I'm thinking about a GSD in a few years. I like the looks of your dogs but I want to know if they would be a good match for me. This is my experience with dogs. This is what I want to achieve. Give me your honest opinion."
Get more involved with dogs in general and GSDs in particular. If you do contact the breeder, make it a significant update preferably by email so that they can read it and respond at their leisure. Something like "I started volunteering with my local club. I am learning a lot and am more in love with the breed than ever. What I am looking for in a dog is changing a bit as I learn. I still really admire your dogs and would like your opinion on how they would do if I plan to show/schutzhund/obedience/agility." If you don't hear back from them, it's no big deal. At this point, neither of you have anything invested and it's nothing personal.
Then, when the time comes closer you email or call with the announcement that you are ready for a dog. You have more in-depth discussions about exact needs and wants. You exact living situation at the moment and plans for the future. What do you want from the dog. Then you wait for the puppy. Maybe emails are a bit more frequent but don't try to push into the breeders life. (I know it gets hard especially once YOUR litter is born!)

The goal is to develop a working relationship with someone who is a responsible breeder. That doesn't mean that the breeder will be your friend or that they will spend time on the phone chatting about your life. It means that the two of you will work together to provide a pup with the best life possible.

I think you are mis-understanding what people mean by a strong-willed owner with a GSD vs a Sibe.

Most GSDs will accept that you are the boss if you are confident and fair in your treatment of the dogs. Some you might have to earn their respect first, but a GSD is bred to take orders. 

Sibes, on the other hand, are NOT interested in taking orders. They are bred to pull and run. Yes they are very intelligent but they also don't necessarily need to work with a person. Take a lead sled dog. That dog is THE boss. The human? They are just the means to the end of getting to pull the sled. I know more than a couple Sibe breeders from my kennel club and they all say the same thing. 
You can't just get a Sibe and say "Obey me" and expect the dog to comply. It takes finesse and ability to work with them.

A GSD however, needs a take charge kind of owner. Someone who comes in and says "these are the rules. you will follow them." with the attitude to back it up. I don't mean someone that is harsh or offers punishment at a whim, of course. Just a confident personality (hate to invoke Cesear because many don't like his methods. But no one can say that he doesn't have an aura that dogs respect.) Try that with any of the Sibes I've met and the dog would laugh and say "who do you think you are?" and yes, it becomes a battle of wills because a Sibe isn't bred to obey just because you happen to walk on 2 legs.

And yes, in the wrong hands (like a weak owner) a GSD can become an aggressive dog. Give them an inch and they will take a mile (Sibes will too I know). I just don't see what the breeder did as something to cry over and I think many here feel the same way. If she is the type of person who needs to be everyone's friend (she might not be), then perhaps a GSD isn't the dog for her. Again, that is something we can't tell third-hand.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

oops. deleted part of my post.

It's nothing personal against you and I know that you are trying to help your friend. However, in the end, your advice wasn't the best. Yes, it's good to start contacting breeders before you are ready. And I've given that advice myself. 
HOWEVER, it's generally understood to be more of a casual contact until you have made a decision on a breeder and an exact time to add a dog. Nothing wrong with keeping up with what a breeder is producing if you are several years out from purchasing. And definitely nothing wrong with an email that says you've been watching and like what you see and that, when you are ready, you would love to own a dog from their kennel. Even better if you have been learning about the venue that you are interested in and that you hope to perform in in the future and can ask questions relevant to that.
But phone calls and chats about how your life is going are a bit over the top, especially if you are not looking to buy a dog in the immediate future. 

Then again, that is where being experienced in the breed is vital when it comes to recommending a breeder. You need to have an idea of what your friend needs in a dog and what breeders are likely to have that type. The first step is to narrow down the TYPE of breeder that you need (show, working, a laid-back dog, yes even color). You don't want to waste the time of a breeder who just isn't going to have a dog that is what you need. IE if you have your heart set on a sable, there is nothing wrong with that and you can find a good responsible breeder but chances are that a showline isn't in your future. If the breeder, no matter how responsible and good, is invested in the conformation ring they aren't likely to be a good match. Or at least not the best match.


----------



## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

GSD Fan said:


> Heck, maybe I should get out of the GSD breed since they're aggressive. I don't need an aggressive dog and don't know anyone who does.


If you aren't sure you want a German Shepherd, and don't understand the breed, I agree it would be wise to look into other breeds. A person who is wondering if they should "get out" of the breed probably should, IMO. I hear Goldens are nice! Pomeranians are cute too


----------



## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Recommending breeders is a slippery slope GSD Fan. I learned the hard way after recommending a WS breeder (more than once ) who was later shut down. (for very good reasons) I knew a LOT about the dogs and the breeder had a good reputation. There was no reason to think anything was wrong. Big mistake. So tread lightly. You aren't just recommending dogs, you're recommending the people who breed the dogs. 


Someday you'll make a great dog owner if passion is any indication of future actions, but for now you might want to step back from helping people looking for GSD's. I'm not saying that to hurt your feelings, I just don't think you have enough experience at this point. It's a big responsibility and you would feel bad if you sent someone to a breeder and they ended up with a dog they hated, yes?


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Meh, it's whatever you'd like to think.


----------



## sitstay (Jan 20, 2003)

I have a feeling that this "friend" is actually someone who responded to GSDFan's Craigslist ad offering to recommend specific breeders to folks looking to buy a "well bred" puppy or dog. 

GSDFan, this situation is exactly why you shouldn't be doing this. I feel sorry for the "friend" and the breeder, since they have both had to deal with your faulty advice. 
Sheilah


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It goes two ways too, when you recommend a breeder, you are recommending the buyer. Now a breeder still needs to ask important questions and make a decision, but if they _know_ you and you recommended them to this person, then they may calm some of their weirdow-radar because this is someone who comes from a trusted source.

I understand that this isn't the case.

But, when you get a dog, and you work through the process of waiting, selecting a breeding, waiting for puppies, having a puppy selected, purchasing, going through puppy-stuff, etc, it is possible that you _will _have a working relationship of sorts with your breeder. I have many people who have my puppies, some have been to my home several times, some I have visited in their homes, some I train with, some I show with, some I have gone to see work, some we send e-mails back and forth, some call. All but one of these I met _after _there were puppies on the ground.

One though, I met through training classes, and she was interested in a puppy but not quite ready when I had a litter, she took one of my puppies for six weeks and took it through puppy class for me. She evaluated the litter that had her pup in it and was spot on with all ten puppies. She had previously bred shepherds, and had shepherds. We went together to the show in the beginning of August right after her pup was born, so she got to see the pups when they were days old. When the pups got their first shots, she came and helped with them. (With ten pups to cart in there, it can be a huge help.) When at six months she rushed her pup to the vet, I met her there. When our pups were a year and a half old, we showed them together, and got the exact same scores. 

It is just not possible to have _that_ kind of friendship with every puppy buyer. We met in training class because training and showing our dogs was where we were at at the time. 

But most of the time, I talk on the phone to people, often a couple of times. I want to know the person who is taking the puppy isn't a rummy. So, I spend a LOT of time on the phone with perspective buyers. But like most breeders, selling puppies isn't paying the house payment and the car payment, so we have to fit in all the work and all the calls around our life. I want people to call me with updates on their puppy, but even then, sometimes I have to tell them, this is really not a good time. 

I have been working with my trainer for almost seven years now. You would think some of that obedience would have sunk in by now. I have trained Dubya, Arwen, Rush, Jenna, Babs, Heidi, Whitney, Tori, Milla, Ninja, Joy, Bear, Dolly, and Gretta with her. Most of them multiple classes for each dog. So you can say, I know my trainer pretty well, at least as it pertains to dogs. We train outside now at her home, and the Thursday night group has a coffee hour afterwards in her home, and we discuss mostly dogs, occasionally other stuff. 

I recommend her left and right. I recommend her to my puppy buyers if they are close enough. Out of my first litter, the pup went to a relative of my sister's friend. And I suggested my trainer as a good place to go. The guy was having all kinds of trouble in his marriage, and he started taxing my trainer with problems that were more about the wife and kids than the pup. And, the guy could talk the ear off a mule. Ugh. 

My trainer changed her first lesson speech to include that if we are having problems -- DOG PROBLEMS -- feel free to call her, that's part of it. That was my fault, for sending her crazy-man. 

Of course I really do not try to ensure that someone needing to train their dog is not crazy before recommending them to my trainer. By then, they have a puppy and the puppy needs training. But if I wouldn't sell someone a puppy for personal reasons, I would not refer them to another breeder that I know either. In fact, there are people that we have a do-not-sell-to list. It is a business, but it is also dogs, it is also puppies, and if someone is a scumbag that keeps 30 dogs in 13 filthy fecies-filled pens, then we don't even want dogs from people we don't care for to land there. Sometimes we refer to other breeders because we don't have what they are looking for, that's ok, but then we tell the breeder whether the person is a repeat customer, a trusted friend/dog person, or someone we talked to on the phone once.


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

So, I read through this WHOLE thread again. GSDFan, where, in ANY part of this thread, did anybody mention the GSD being an aggressive breed? Because I am not seeing it anywhere.

Maybe you should stick with the idea of Sibes, because the more you say, the more it sounds like a GSD will not suit you.


----------



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Xeph said:


> So, I read through this WHOLE thread again. GSDFan, where, in ANY part of this thread, did anybody mention the GSD being an aggressive breed? Because I am not seeing it anywhere.
> 
> Maybe you should stick with the idea of Sibes, because the more you say, the more it sounds like a GSD will not suit you.


I think that someone suggested that if the prospective buyer is going to cry about an exchange with someone she may buy a dog from, maybe her temperament is not well-suited for a GSD.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Xeph said:


> So, I read through this WHOLE thread again. GSDFan, where, in ANY part of this thread, did anybody mention the GSD being an aggressive breed? Because I am not seeing it anywhere.
> 
> Maybe you should stick with the idea of Sibes, because the more you say, the more it sounds like a GSD will not suit you.


I see it. I can tell you the member and the exact page. 

You say a GSD would not suit me, but yet you won't even defend your false statement about sibes. You don't even know enough about sibes, but you come in here on your high horse. 

Do you have a problem with me? Because obviously these statements and your attitude are flame bait instead of contributing to the thread.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

sit said:


> I have a feeling that this "friend" is actually someone who responded to GSDFan's Craigslist ad offering to recommend specific breeders to folks looking to buy a "well bred" puppy or dog.
> 
> GSDFan, this situation is exactly why you shouldn't be doing this. I feel sorry for the "friend" and the breeder, since they have both had to deal with your faulty advice.
> Sheilah


I'm not even doing it anymore. I took the ad down.


----------



## Betty (Aug 11, 2002)

For whatever reason the breeder and the buyer are not a good match. Just time to move on...


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Xeph said:


> So, I read through this WHOLE thread again. GSDFan, where, in ANY part of this thread, did anybody mention the GSD being an aggressive breed? Because I am not seeing it anywhere.


I said "potentially aggressive".


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSD Fan said:


> Do you have a problem with me? Because obviously these statements and your attitude are flame bait instead of contributing to the thread.


I don't have a problem with you, but I agree with her.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I also second-ed Freestep on that. In the wrong hands, a GSD has the potential to be aggressive. It's just a fact.

It just sounds like a simple case of unequal expectations. With all of the phone calls and updates, I wouldn't fault the breeder for assuming that she was the final choice. It was probably upsetting to find out that after all of this hassle and phone calls that the buyer hadn't made ANY decision on who she would buy from. Feeling like someone had wasted your time can be upsetting.

And I will stand by the statements made about Sibes. They are NOT anything like GSDs. Someone who is perfectly suited for one might not be a good match for the other. Sibes, in general, will not do well with the same type of training/attitude that is best for a GSD. GSD needs a calm, take-charge, no-nonsense type of person. Someone who will just step up and say "I'm the boss. You will do this because I say so." 
That type of attitude with a Sibe will usually get the opposite reaction - "oh yeah? well who are you?" and if you aren't careful to adjust your techniques it WILL dissolve into a battle of wills. It's just a simple fact that the 2 breeds have been selected for different purposes. 
I'm not sure why you are taking it so personally?


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> You don't even know enough about sibes, but you come in here on your high horse.


ROFL! I WORKED in a show Sibe kennel!!! And I have VERY close friends with Sibes AND Alaskan Huskies!

I have worked with MANY over the last few years, and very much stand behind what I said!

Sibes do not obey just because you said so. In fact, they are bred to be "intelligently disobedient"! If a musher is on a trail and tells his team to cross a frozen lake, and the lead dogs says "Heck no!" that musher darn well better get off his sled and see WHY the dog is saying NO!

If you ask a team of GSD to cross that SAME lake, and the lake has a HUGE fissure in it....the GSDs are going to go, because you told them to. Our breed is not stupid, but they aren't bred for "Sibe Smarts".



> GSD needs a calm, take-charge, no-nonsense type of person. Someone who will just step up and say "I'm the boss. You will do this because I say so."
> That type of attitude with a Sibe will usually get the opposite reaction - "oh yeah? well who are you?" and if you aren't careful to adjust your techniques it WILL dissolve into a battle of wills. It's just a simple fact that the 2 breeds have been selected for different purposes.
> I'm not sure why you are taking it so personally?


THANK YOU!


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Because obviously these statements and your attitude are flame bait instead of contributing to the thread.


This is absolutely ridiculous. I made a statement you apparently vehemently disagree with, and so it's flame bait?

Please.


----------



## GSD Fan (Sep 20, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> I'm not sure why you are taking it so personally?


You're right, I shouldn't take it personally. This person doesn't know me personally, she's just on a high horse on the internet.

I think I'm just going to leave. This forum isn't like it used to be, not at all. 

So with that, I say goodbye to GSD forums. I enjoyed the time I was on here and the members I talked to. 

I wish everyone well and happy lives, even the people on this forum who don't like me or can't stand me.

This thread can go whereever it wants to go, I'm not even going to try to defend anything or anyone.

God Bless.


----------



## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

GSD Fan said:


> You're right, I shouldn't take it personally. This person doesn't know me personally, she's just on a high horse on the internet.


I don't see anyone being on a high horse. You were told honest facts that you apparently don't like because they differ from your view. If you honestly want to eventually own a GSD then stay around and actually listen to what is being said.


----------



## Furricane (Feb 18, 2010)

Dainerra said:


> I also second-ed Freestep on that. In the wrong hands, a GSD has the potential to be aggressive. It's just a fact.
> 
> It just sounds like a simple case of unequal expectations. With all of the phone calls and updates, I wouldn't fault the breeder for assuming that she was the final choice. It was probably upsetting to find out that after all of this hassle and phone calls that the buyer hadn't made ANY decision on who she would buy from. Feeling like someone had wasted your time can be upsetting.
> 
> ...



Where's that "like" button? This is so true and spot on! :thumbup:


----------



## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

GSD Fan said:


> You're right, I shouldn't take it personally. This person doesn't know me personally, she's just on a high horse on the internet.
> 
> I think I'm just going to leave. This forum isn't like it used to be, not at all.
> 
> ...




Here we go again.

See ya later!


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> she's just on a high horse on the internet.


You certainly didn't seem to feel that way when you wanted my help to get a permaban reversed from another forum.

Newsflash. People disagreeing with you is not flame bait. It's simple disagreement.

Ciao.


----------



## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

This is getting personal, and drama from other forums is being dragged on here. 
Thread closed - some great info on here for you friend GSD Fan. Hope it helps her out.


----------

