# How to recognize an "Alpha Male"?



## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

May seem lilke an amateurish question, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.

I keep reading, and hearing the term "alpha male". I know what it means, but how can you look at a GSD and determine if he's Alpha?

I'd like to hear about some of the signs and sgnals.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

And don't forget the "Alpha female"? They might have a different look!




BTW, it is not the "look" it is more their action and general temperament that determines an "alpha" animal of any species.


Ever been in a group of people and someone walks in and everyone (almost) defers to them and waits to see what they do?

THAT is the alpha!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

They are (generally) confident, and nobody tends to challenge them. They stand with head high and tail erect.

Now - alpha status is fluid and depends on who they are with. You may have an alpha with all the other dogs but submits to another dog, say an older dog.
Plus you have a lot of alpha wanna-bes who muddy the waters, you think you've spotted it but he may be just not confident and acting alpha to avoid conflicts with other dogs.

Pack order is anything but static.



> Ever been in a group of people and someone walks in and everyone (almost) defers to them and waits to see what they do?
> THAT is the alpha!


No, that's the _boss_ - he pays your wages so everyone defers to him!!


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> They are (generally) confident, and nobody tends to challenge them. They stand with head high and tail erect.
> 
> Now - alpha status is fluid and depends on who they are with. You may have an alpha with all the other dogs but submits to another dog, say an older dog.
> Plus you have a lot of alpha wanna-bes who muddy the waters, you think you've spotted it but he may be just not confident and acting alpha to avoid conflicts with other dogs.
> ...


 
*Absolutely NOT! *

*First, I wan't referring ONLY to business settings - I assume that you have also been in social settings where there may be NO "boss"?*

*Second, even IN a business setting, there are many instances where the official manager is not the "alpha" that the others listen to more and defer to.*

*I am sure that you have heard of the description "A Natural Leader" that *= *"Alpha".*


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

err . . . I think that the little winking smiley means that it was a joke . . . (and a good one too, LOL!).


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

Castlemaid said:


> err . . . I think that the little winking smiley means that it was a joke . . . (and a good one too, LOL!).


 That's what I was thinking lmao!


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Castlemaid said:


> err . . . I think that the little winking smiley means that it was a joke . . . (and a good one too, LOL!).


Thank you for "getting" it 

LOL


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

I think you'll hear that term being used most often by people who have no clue what they're talking about.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm not quite sure either, I imagine the dog being like a Sean Connery James Bond - cool, calm, and collected. My husband's friend has a 125lb black, male, GSD, he is this way, he just has a presence about him, even though he's older and a bit arthritic. When he was younger, the owner but him in training "boot camp" for two weeks with an ex-police K9 officer. He is the only dog my Molly never reacted to one way or the other. She is very calm around him and has then wanted to leave and go back in the car.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

the Alpha male has a dark A shape in it's chest curling
and the Alpha female has a lighter A shape in her chest curling.
the A is very hard to see on Alpha pups.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

doggiedad said:


> the Alpha male has a dark A shape in it's chest curling
> and the Alpha female has a lighter A shape in her chest curling.
> the A is very hard to see on Alpha pups.


:wild: Do they sometimes wear capes?


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Based on the answers, it seems that there's no such thing as an alpha.
Maybe wanna be's. nothing more.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

doggiedad said:


> the Alpha male has a dark A shape in it's chest curling
> and the Alpha female has a lighter A shape in her chest curling.
> the A is very hard to see on Alpha pups.


I LOVE IT!

Now I know what all those As are!

Of course Babs has a little Omega on her chest -- that means she likes to sit on the easy chair or couch or bed meditating all the time. Ohm, Ohm, Ohm.


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## Loneforce (Feb 12, 2012)

I wonder how many people looked for the A on the chest :laugh:


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Son of a gun....

Never noticed it.

Thanks.
Bunch o' smartasses


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

LOL very cute. 

But then she's always cute!


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

Add "dominant" to alpha and it makes a very interesting combination, not for the faint hearted.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

Wait, I thought only the dogs who had an unplanned, oops litter had to wear the "A", at least that's the story I read.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

How about a dog who never backs down from any other dog? Would that make them an "Alpha" type?


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

No that'd make them a butt-head type...! Or a Dachshund


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Also keep in mind that with domestic dogs, a female is just as likely to be "alpha" or "dominant" as a male. It's not at all unusual for males to back down from females.


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## Mrs.K (Jul 14, 2009)

Especially when there are two buttheaded females in the house and only one male. 


But what if YOU are not Alpha enough?

I watched a friends dog for a couple of days and decided it's just not worth the hazzle and brought him back into his outdoor kennel. While he got along very well with mine on walks it just didn't work in the house. Constant humping the girls (he did not stop), marking the house and trying to put down my male. It was just way to stressful, he digged himself out of the fence, destroyed a basement window, tried to chew himself out of the crate, howling, barking... and somebody said that I am not Alpha enough to handle him. 

Honestly, I did not want to be "Alpha" enough. If I have learned one thing it's just not worth it. Especially when I was only supposed to watch him for two weeks. I don't have the time for a dog like that. So another friend of my friend who told me that I am not Alpha enough basically said that she will care for him since I can't handle him... 

Honestly, I don't want to handle him. If I am supposed to watch a dog I don't want to spend 3/4 of the day to put manners on that dog. Don't have time for that!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Emoore said:


> Also keep in mind that with domestic dogs, a female is just as likely to be "alpha" or "dominant" as a male. It's not at all unusual for males to back down from females.


:thumbup: 

In my parents old pack of two labs and a lab mix the middle female was alpha to the other two

As for the rest of the thread :rofl: You all made my day


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Many people mistake a social bully for an Alpha. Today a lady explained her dog's lunging and barking on leash behavior as "oh, she is an Alpha!" BS.
I for sure once had an Alpha dog, a Whippet (!) He never picked a fight, he was just there. Dog size/breed doesn't matter. All dogs he met, (honestly) in his life deferred to him, someone at the most would have had a lip curl or a quick air snap but then they got it. Sometimes I held my breath like the one time when a Giant Schnauzer ran up to him, looking for trouble but stopped in his track when he got the shark eye.
He raised numerous foster dogs and my own pups and they fitted in within two days. Dogs are such awesome teachers, if you have the right one.
Now he is gone, I can never have that many dogs without his help. It would be too much work. 
I thought that you can call this Alpha but I still don't like the word; it is too confusing too many.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

wolfy dog said:


> Many people mistake a social bully for an Alpha.


Exactly. A true alpha doesn't have to go around telling everyone he's king; other dogs seem to sense it, and naturally defer. A true alpha doesn't have to be aggressive, or pick fights, or assert his dominance all the time. He's confident and assertive, usually calm, and has a sort of "presence" about him that other dogs immediately respect.

Those dogs that bully others are "wanna-be" alphas, are usually insecure in their position, and have probably never met a true alpha. When there is a true alpha in the midst of a pack, you don't see a lot of bickering or aggressive display. In fact, an alpha dog will often defuse fights.

A good example is a dog I used to know, an intact pit bull mix named Odis. He exuded confidence, and was the least dog-aggressive dog I ever knew. When running in off-leash areas, he would approach other dogs in a friendly, confident manner, sniff them out, then move on. Every once in a while, some wanna-be alpha dog would try to pick a fight with him. He'd simply turn and body-block them, trot off with head and tail high, pee on the nearest bush, then go about his business. It always left the wanna-be dog a bit confounded; they'd sniff his pee, then leave him alone.

Odis was a remarkable dog. Unstoppable drive, would fetch for hours, go anywhere and do anything asked of him, would jump off a cliff if you told him to. Yet so extremely gentle, he could do hospital visits, and twice he cured small children of their fear of dogs. Always seemed to know exactly how to behave. This is what I think of when I think of a true alpha, a natural leader.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

wolfy dog said:


> He never picked a fight, he was just there. Dog size/breed doesn't matter. All dogs he met, (honestly) in his life deferred to him


I think if dogs can be alpha, this explains it really well. They command a certain respect just by their body language and it's usually really subtle. 
There's a Besenji at the trainers we go to that stops dogs dead in their tracks and I swear he doesn't move a muscle that I can see. He's an old dog (with barely any teeth left) but truthfully one of the only dogs I've seen that commands so much respect from other dogs. I think alpha's are very, very confident. They don't start fights, they aren't pushy. It's hard to explain, but once you see it you don't forget it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The barking, lunging, nutters are usually scared out of their wits. Constantly in a state of fight or flight when in public, and with a leash on, flight is simply not an option. Jenna is my Alpha bitch here (has the A on the chest to prove it, lol). She doesn't bark or lunge or fence fight with the other dogs. They just all know by the way she walks and acts that she is the Queen B.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

My Libby is just like that. Nobody messes with her or they regret it!


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

i saw a special about dogs and they were testing a litter of 6 puppies. they threw in a raw bone with a little meat on it to see what would happen. well they started with 2 of them (lots of growling and stealing the bone) then they added another puppy, and the same thing, until they got to the 5th puppy, this one took the bone, ran off and half of them didnt follow, the other one tried to get it and the puppy growled and that was the end of it, it didnt follow the bone anymore. thats how they concluded this was the alpha of the litter. very interesting no muss, no fuss and no more turmoil, they all left the alpha alone. the alpha was a female.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

That vid is on Leerburg.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Exactly. A true alpha doesn't have to go around telling everyone he's king; other dogs seem to sense it, and naturally defer. A true alpha doesn't have to be aggressive, or pick fights, or assert his dominance all the time. He's confident and assertive, usually calm, and has a sort of "presence" about him that other dogs immediately respect.


Pretty much what I was told. I was also told that the alpha was harder to train because he didn't have to work for anything-- he just was the alpha, and the others knew it, so he did not have to be biddable.

This was explained to me after a trainer told me he was pretty sure Hans was the alpha in the litter. 
You could have knocked me over with a feather.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

.True Alpha dogs are hard to find when they are pups. And in the shelters they don't get a chance to show who they are. Most likely you may be able to recognize them by their calm demeanor and confident posture in the kennel.
I asked the breeder of my Whippet what he was like in the litter and she told me that he was a loner, not very interested in playing with the others and always had possession of toys.
I just took to him when I first met him but I wish how to pick out a pup like that instead of relying on "meant to be".
I am not sure if the meaty bone test is reliable. Lots of bullies get their way too. Some trainers call these "social climbers". I had one those too. 
Sometimes Alpha dogs don't care about that stuff because they know that they can take possession whenever they want. The Whippet often let the bully go first to whatever he wanted but in the end he owned all the bones. At end of his life he lost that status and I think it was harder for me than for him as he had accepted the new role. But to my surprise there was not a new leader who stood up. I had now the task to keep the peace and that was hard work for a while.
We'll see how my wolfy dog pup turns out. (He is a GSD btw )


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Sunflowers said:


> Pretty much what I was told. I was also told that the alpha was harder to train because he didn't have to work for anything-- he just was the alpha, and the others knew it, so he did not have to be biddable.
> 
> This was explained to me after a trainer told me he was pretty sure Hans was the alpha in the litter.
> You could have knocked me over with a feather.


I believe this to be true. My first GSD was this way. Was informed by the trainer/behaviorist that he was with for a couple of months that I had an "alpha dog". Hardest dog I've ever worked with. However, I LOVED his nerves of steel and his over all character.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

Jag said:


> I believe this to be true. My first GSD was this way. Was informed by the trainer/behaviorist that he was with for a couple of months that I had an "alpha dog". Hardest dog I've ever worked with. However, I LOVED his nerves of steel and his over all character.


Which training method did you use? I used the clicker and it was a breeze but the breed might also come into play here.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

wolfy dog said:


> Which training method did you use? I used the clicker and it was a breeze but the breed might also come into play here.


I used the "let the dog walk all over you" combined with "mess it up every way possible"...  This was my first GSD. I trained him the way I'd trained every other dog I'd ever had (non-GSD) which was primarily reward based training. However, once he was "running the house" it was an issue. Due to my ex being a complete violent creep, he also became aggressive to all men. Sooo... he had to go board to "undo" my mistakes. He was naturally protective of me (but only when warranted until he decided all men must be evil). He came back to me as he 'started out'. A calm dog who didn't become aggressive unless it was totally warranted. Unfortunately, his life was cut short by my ex. He was "taken out" by him so I'd have no protection from him. He gave his life to protect mine. I have to tell you, also, that the microchip with only my name and info. didn't protect him because they never even checked for a chip. Anyone could have walked in off the street with him and made the same false claims and they'd have put the dog down. I do believe he came back to me in the last male I had. The similarities were so great that I kept calling him by my first dog's name...so that's what he ended up being named.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Jag said:


> Unfortunately, his life was cut short by my ex. He was "taken out" by him so I'd have no protection from him. He gave his life to protect mine. I have to tell you, also, that the microchip with only my name and info. didn't protect him because they never even checked for a chip. Anyone could have walked in off the street with him and made the same false claims and they'd have put the dog down.


Wait... are you saying that your ex took the dog to the pound and had him pts?  I hope that creep is in jail for the rest of his life. To kill an animal just to hurt another person is just about as low as you can get. 

I'm sorry that this happened.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Freestep said:


> Wait... are you saying that your ex took the dog to the pound and had him pts?  I hope that creep is in jail for the rest of his life. To kill an animal just to hurt another person is just about as low as you can get.
> 
> I'm sorry that this happened.


Yes, he did. He was 2 years old at the time. I loved that dog. He was my first GSD. I found out just how evil someone can be. I went to the pound and found out what happened. I yelled at them... told them they should have not just taken someone's word for it but scanned him for a chip. They didn't have the equipment. My vet was mortified. This dog defended me with his life, and paid the ultimate price for it. He used to sleep *on* me when I was sleeping between shifts to keep me safe. I'd never loved a dog so much, and became a GSD person for life. This was nearly 15 years ago, but I can't talk about him without tearing up. Nothing was done... and believe me, I tried. A judge was even aware of what happened. Although he was disgusted in the behavior, no charges were ever brought against him for it.


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## billsharp (May 3, 2011)

This thread is so funny! It reminds me of an "alpha male" story from when I was young(er).

We lived in the country and one day an older, dark brown mottled Cattahoula Cur walked up to our yard. My sisters and I were playing and let him into the fenced yard, and he was very calm and affectionate, had no collar, played gently with us, etc. Dad said we could keep him while he asked around to see if he could locate the owner. We called him "Duke."

Next door to us lived a family with some type of Heinz57 mutt that immediately went on a tear (through the chain link fence), barking, hackles up, rushing the fence, barring his teeth, etc. He looked like Cerberus, minus a head or two.

Duke ambled over to the fence slowly, his tail wagging gently to and fro and looked at the crazy dog for a few seconds. He then ambled slowly out the gate and down the fence line about 30 yards to where it joined a barbed wire fence--crossed the wire fence, and began to amble directly toward the barking fiend. 

As Duke got closer the other dog began to get more hesitant. His ears went from being laid back to upright, and his barking changed to a low growl, and his tail went down between his legs. Duke never broke stride (or a sweat) and just kept ambling up to the now shaking dog. To his credit the dog stood his ground, but he was visibly trembling as Duke approached. Duke walked right up to him and sniffed his nose a few times, then slowly turned around and ambled back to our house. The other dog just wandered back to his house. 

That, my friends, is an alpha male.


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## Anthony8858 (Sep 18, 2011)

Jag said:


> Yes, he did. He was 2 years old at the time. I loved that dog. He was my first GSD. I found out just how evil someone can be. I went to the pound and found out what happened. I yelled at them... told them they should have not just taken someone's word for it but scanned him for a chip. They didn't have the equipment. My vet was mortified. This dog defended me with his life, and paid the ultimate price for it. He used to sleep *on* me when I was sleeping between shifts to keep me safe. I'd never loved a dog so much, and became a GSD person for life. This was nearly 15 years ago, but I can't talk about him without tearing up. Nothing was done... and believe me, I tried. A judge was even aware of what happened. Although he was disgusted in the behavior, no charges were ever brought against him for it.


This is so sad.

What an animal.


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