# Sable - has anyone seen a coat like this?



## dranseth (Dec 31, 2015)

Title states it all


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

if it's the dog centered in the photo, doesn't look sable. more like a black/tan with a prominent bitch stripe


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## dranseth (Dec 31, 2015)

If it was a bitch strip, then the hairs would not be banded. Individual cream hairs would by integrated with the black hairs giving the illusion of a trickling effect. See attached an example of how thone hairs are banded.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Shadow is like that. She is not sable.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Here is a better shot of it. Not pleased that I interrupted her nap. Lol.


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## dranseth (Dec 31, 2015)

So the bitch stripe can be banded?????? I was told it couldn't.... here's my boy as a pup


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

The pup is a sable. So I would guess he would be a patterned sable. Do you have pics from the side as well? From the top he looks similar to my girl but sable puppies do not grow up to be tan and black.:smile2:


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## SuperG (May 11, 2013)

I'm easily confused......is your boy a bitch ????


SuperG


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

Banded hairs are associated with agouti genes, and black/tan is one of the agouti alleles so it's plausible. I've seen black/tans with some degree of banding on the hairs but it is typically a sable trait. While it is possible for her/him to be a patterned sable it doesn't really look it. But if you have puppy pictures that would prove it either way, as even patterned sables are born looking like normal sables, and B/Ts are always born black/tan.


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## dranseth (Dec 31, 2015)

Here you go


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

Mmm do you have any younger? Looks black/tan there, the long coat kind of throws it off but I'd be expecting a sable to be much lighter at that age and to be showing the black stripe down their back. Or do you have any pics a bit later? Did he ever go through a phase where he was nearly solid tan?


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

To show you what I mean, this is a sable long coat puppy at 7 weeks old. He was born very dark, and is dark now but they continue to lighten up noticeably until they lose their puppy coat.


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## dranseth (Dec 31, 2015)

There was no solid tan phase. However, I have heard that not all sables go through that drastic stage. Here are some shots of when we brought him home.

There has always been debate surrounding what coat he is; some say black and tan/red, others say pattern sable. I don't care either way.


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

There is always a lighter phase in agouti sables, that is a key marker for the color. A darker sable may not get totally tan but you'd still see notable lightening and the dark stripe down the back. IMO I'd definitely say black/tan just with earlier fading of the black. Not sure what they meant by tan/red. Tan and red are the same thing, just varying intensity of the same color.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Cschmidt88 said:


> Mmm do you have any younger? Looks black/tan there, the long coat kind of throws it off but I'd be expecting a sable to be much lighter at that age and to be showing the black stripe down their back. Or do you have any pics a bit later? Did he ever go through a phase where he was nearly solid tan?


So his dog is tan and black? I haven't spent much time with long coats and did not realize it could impact color appearance that much.


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## dranseth (Dec 31, 2015)

Interesting.....

Check out this thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum#/topics/662633?page=1&_k=jhzdfo

In it more people claim sable versus black and tan. 

Thanks for the information.


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

Sabis mom said:


> So his dog is tan and black? I haven't spent much time with long coats and did not realize it could impact color appearance that much.


More I think because with the longer coat you can see some of the color changing throughout the fur more than a tighter coat. Giving it an almost sable like appearance in the puppy picture. If that makes sense? Sorry words aren't coming to me to properly explain it.


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

dranseth said:


> Interesting.....
> 
> Check out this thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum#/topics/662633?page=1&_k=jhzdfo
> 
> ...


The link does not seem to work.


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## Cschmidt88 (Nov 24, 2010)

Cschmidt88 said:


> The link does not seem to work.


Nevermind I managed to piece it together. Just people 10 people out of 15 say something is what it is, doesn't make it so. The color change is how the sable pattern works, not a matter of opinion but genetics.

Here's an example of a patterned sable long coat, this is a friend's dog Sampson vom Haus Middleton, from a sable to black and tan breeding. Here he is as a puppy showing a clear sable pattern, lightening on the sides but the dark streak down the back.









And as an adult:


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Cschmidt88 said:


> More I think because with the longer coat you can see some of the color changing throughout the fur more than a tighter coat. Giving it an almost sable like appearance in the puppy picture. If that makes sense? Sorry words aren't coming to me to properly explain it.



Got it. Thank you. People ask all the time if Shadow is a sable and I know she isn't. She just has that really prominant bitch stripe across her shoulders and down her back.
She was clearly a black and tan pup. The ops pup looked a lot different so I thought I might be wrong about him.


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## Crunch Hardtack (Dec 22, 2016)

What a looker!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Gorgeous- pattern sable you can see the light under the coat near the lower back area. Max has this same spread of sable from the back of his neck /shoulders and goes all around his collar bone. Max is not a pattern sable.


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