# Prong use for life?



## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

This might sound silly. I know a prong is meant to be used as a tool for training loose leash walking, but can it be used for life as a flat collar? Is there negatives associated with using it this way? I just feel so much more in control with it on them. They don't really pull any more...just if they see a rabbit or something dart in front of them...

Also, I've the prong that doesn't have a hook (the full circle round one). I worry that when I take it off Smokey, his ears will break? Can this happen? Or will his ears get soft and fall over from taking it off and putting it on several times a day?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't understand what the full circle round one is.
Are you asking if you can leave it on 24/7?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You can not leave the prong on them all day like a flat collar. However, if you want to use it to walk them for the rest of their lives then there isn't really a problem with that. How do you take the prong off? It should come apart so you don't put it over their heads. If it's fitted properly, it shouldn't fit over their heads since it's suppose to sit high on their necks.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

No no. For walks only...

The type of prong that doesn't have a hook. It's slips on rather than having to attach the chain to the snap.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I've never seen a prong collar where you couldn't take it off by unhooking the links. If you're sliding it over his head to get it on and off, it's too loose.

And no, I would not leave it on him all the time. If it gets caught on something it could choke him to death.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Zeeva said:


> The type of prong that doesn't have a hook. It's slips on rather than having to attach the chain to the snap.


Could you post a picture, or a link to the kind you're talking about?


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Could you post a picture, or a link to the kind you're talking about?


Ditto. I know there is the slip-on Secret Power kind and the Herm Sprenger kind.


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## Pooky44 (Feb 10, 2013)

Never used a prong. Hope they go the way of the choke chain (which hasn't really gone away). JMHO


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Here's a picture I just took...

The links come undone. But I was told by someone at Petsmart to simply slip it over his ears and head...


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Petsmart is wrong...

Unhook the prong about half way and put it on. Readjust the fit so it's on right.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Ok...saves me the worry about his ears...

Thanks c:


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here you go, Amina! This will help you 

Leerburg Dog Training | How to Fit a Prong Collar


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> The links come undone. But I was told by someone at Petsmart to simply slip it over his ears and head...


OMG.
I actually wish Petsmart would go away.



Since Leerburg has already been linked, I would like to recommend a Herm Sprenger collar, with a rolled leather one as backup. They explain all of that on the site.

Prongs do come undone, and that could be a disaster.

http://leerburg.com/5131.htm#!vidpopup/0/


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Pooky44 said:


> Never used a prong. Hope they go the way of the choke chain (which hasn't really gone away). JMHO


You're entitled to your opinion. 

Some of us are 5 foot tall, have arthritic hands, and are a lot less powerful than the dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Agreed with Sunflower. Make sure it's a good quality and Herm Sprenger is. You can buy tabs with hooks on both sides to hook from the prong to the flat collar so you still have control to correct if need be


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## katdog5911 (Sep 24, 2011)

I use the Herm Sprenger prong with a flat collar as a back up. If we are walking in a dog free area I reverse it to a flat collar with the prong backup. They are connected by a leather tab. 

I don't really see a day in the future where I won't use the prong on Stella. It gives me the control I need. 

And a prong should not slip over a dog's head! It took me a little while to get used to opening and closing the links, but practice makes perfect!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Here's a picture I just took...
> 
> The links come undone. But I was told by someone at Petsmart to simply slip it over his ears and head...


I have this one for my golden and the one that clips(doesn't go over the head). It(the one that slips on) works fine for my golden, but he has floppy ears. I was in a hurry the other day and went to put the one on with the clips on the GSD, but it was way to tight and I didn't have time to find the links. I decided to use the one that slips on for the GSD, BAD idea, it came off as soon as we got outside and it was not easy to put on, because of the eyes. I will not be using that one again I went online and got the secret power one for her(GSD), so I know her eyes are safe. The other one that you clip on works well because you can put the leash on both the flat and the prong collar.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

I always use the prong for walks. In the house he doesn't wear a collar.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I have this one for my golden and the one that clips(doesn't go over the head). It(the one that slips on) works fine for my golden, but he has floppy ears. I was in a hurry the other day and went to put the one on with the clips on the GSD, but it was way to tight and I didn't have time to find the links. I decided to use the one that slips on for the GSD, BAD idea, it came off as soon as we got outside and it was not easy to put on, because of the eyes. I will not be using that one again I went online and got the secret power one for her(GSD), so I know her eyes are safe. The other one that you clip on works well because you can put the leash on both the flat and the prong collar.


I was told to put it on inside out (prongs facing you) to protect the eyes. And then flip it once it's on. Is that how you put it on? But I'd rather unclip it c:


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I have this one for my golden. It(the one that slips on) works fine for my golden, but he has floppy ears. .


I don't understand how any regular prong can be slip on. It still needs to be fitted under the chin.
How can it fit properly if it has large enough to fit over ears?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> I was told to put it on inside out (prongs facing you) to protect the eyes. And then flip it once it's on. Is that how you put it on? But I'd rather unclip it c:


It didn't work well for me...I tried and I still didn't feel comfortable. So I did end up unclipping it and it ended up falling off her Thank God she listens when I call her.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> I was told to put it on inside out (prongs facing you) to protect the eyes. And then flip it once it's on. Is that how you put it on? But I'd rather unclip it c:


No, that is not how it's put on. Did you look at the Leerburg link?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> I don't understand how any regular prong can be slip on. It still needs to be fitted under the chin.
> How can it fit properly if it has large enough to fit over ears?


I got it on him with no problem I used it once and it worked fine. I really don't use the prong as a correction because both dogs correct themselves, so I'm guessing it wasn't on as tight as it should be?? I see dogs with these kind all the time. I do prefer the ones that can be clipped better personally.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

Sunflowers said:


> No, that is not how it's put on. Did you look at the Leerburg link?


Don't worry I did look at the sight. I need to remove a link and unclip it. Otherwise I'll get the one you suggested. I can't believe I've been so silly worrying about his ears when I can unclip it and put it on


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

i just got herm sprenger prong collar with quick release so no need for sliping it over head or try to separate hook whitch i couldn't do easy anyway.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Zeeva said:


> Don't worry I did look at the sight. I need to remove a link and unclip it. Otherwise I'll get the one you suggested. I can't believe I've been so silly worrying about his ears when I can unclip it and put it on


Make sure that you hook that link back up good, that is how mine got out of hers. My son didn't do a to great of a job snapping it back on


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I got it on him with no problem I used it once and it worked fine. I really don't use the prong as a correction because both dogs correct themselves, so I'm guessing it wasn't on as tight as it should be?? I see dogs with these kind all the time. I do prefer the ones that can be clipped better personally.


I'm talking about where it sits on the neck of the dog. 
The correct position for a prong collar is to sit right behind the ears and up under the jaw line.
I am thinking if it can slip over the head, it's not positioned properly.

Also, I just saw today that the rings are supposed to be on the right side of the neck, so you can attach the leash. I never knew that one.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

andreaB said:


> i just got herm sprenger prong collar with quick release so no need for sliping it over head or try to separate hook whitch i couldn't do easy anyway.


Which one did you get? Certain quick release ones are notorious for breaking.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I got it on him with no problem I used it once and it worked fine. I really don't use the prong as a correction because both dogs correct themselves, so I'm guessing it wasn't on as tight as it should be?? I see dogs with these kind all the time. I do prefer the ones that can be clipped better personally.





Sunflowers said:


> I don't understand how any regular prong can be slip on. It still needs to be fitted under the chin.
> How can it fit properly if it has large enough to fit over ears?


This type of prong has slack in the chain where the D ring is...and in my case at least it is a very tight squeeze around the ears. That's why I'm afraid the ears will 'break'. It actually isn't fitted on the neck because of the slack but becomes fitted when you 'pop' the leash. It's definitely not fitted the way it's suggested in that link :c so it's incorrectly on...at least in my case...


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

Sunflowers this is the link
Amazon.com: Pet Supply Imports Herm Spreger Chrome Plated Training Collar with Quick Release Snap, Medium, 3.0-Mm: Pet Supplies


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> This type of prong has slack in the chain where the D ring is...and in my case at least it is a very tight squeeze around the ears. That's why I'm afraid the ears will 'break'. It actually isn't fitted on the neck because of the slack but becomes fitted when you 'pop' the leash. It's definitely not fitted the way it's suggested in that link :c so it's incorrectly on...at least in my case...


They all have slack in the chain. It is so that when you yank, it squeezes the neck but then it releases immediately. It doesn't keep constant, hard pinch on the neck.

There is a live ring and a dead ring. 

Live one provides a harsher correction and should only be used if the dog doesn't respond with the dead one.

That site has a really good description of how it's supposed to work.


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

Zeeva said:


> I was told to put it on inside out (prongs facing you) to protect the eyes. And then flip it once it's on. Is that how you put it on? But I'd rather unclip it c:



As was already said, if you can slip it over the head, it's not fitted properly. See the Leerburg link.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

andreaB said:


> Sunflowers this is the link
> Amazon.com: Pet Supply Imports Herm Spreger Chrome Plated Training Collar with Quick Release Snap, Medium, 3.0-Mm: Pet Supplies


This is the kind the trainer told me might snap off.
Gosh, I hate to be Debbie Downer. 
But even a regular prong can break off, and this one has a weak spot that's even more vulnerable.
When you received it, did it have a blue Herm Sprenger tag?


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> This is the kind the trainer told me might snap off.
> Gosh, I hate to be Debbie Downer.
> But even a regular prong can break off, and this one has a weak spot that's even more vulnerable.
> When you received it, did it have a blue Herm Sprenger tag?


I think i got it month ego but do no remember the tag. do you think i should return it? I was quite happy with it, but would hate to have problem it it.


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

andreaB said:


> I think i got it month ego but do no remember the tag. do you think i should return it? I was quite happy with it, but would hate to have problem it it.


The Herm Sprenger collars are easy to identify, they have a triangular yoke where the martingale meets the pongs with "Sprenger HS" stamped into it. It'll have a D ring or O ring at the top where the lead connects, that'll also have "HS Germany" stamped into it. Very easy to identify.

The majority of other collars will be made in China and just rebranded for whatever petshop group or "manufacturer" who cares to put there name on it. They'll have a huge wire loop where the martingale meets the prongs and that's a terrible weak point where it's very likely to pop open, not saying every one will, but a lot of them do it because of the leverage and angle of the prongs through the loop which isn't particularly well spaced or sprung.

As for the quick release catches just popping open, the easiest way to reduce that probability is to avoid the collar being too tight as you'll see on a popular site that many people reference to!!! If you have the collar too tight the martingale chain interferes with the quick release, it's not a mechanical defect but a fitting error that's the cause 99% of the time. We don't tend to have that problem and we sell a huge number of the quick release collars with the advice of letting the martingale triangulate slightly so the quick release doesn't come into contact with the chain, and it makes a massive difference.


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## keiko (Dec 4, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I've never seen a prong collar where you couldn't take it off by unhooking the links. If you're sliding it over his head to get it on and off, it's too loose.
> 
> And no, I would not leave it on him all the time. If it gets caught on something it could choke him to death.


+1

Make sure you unhook, don't ever slip it on.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

OK I'm still confused, there aren't different types of prongs like the one Zeeva pictured. There are "Neck-tech" collars and modified prong collars that use nylon covers, but when people say a "prong collar" they mean the chain martingale style. These are NOT meant to be put on over the head. If you can do that, it's way too loose. If your prong is fitted too loose, you risk the links popping apart. They stay together because there is some tension on them even when you are not correcting your dog. I've had a prong break apart on me once while walking a dog and it was my uncle's dog who wore a prong that was way too loose (he also slipped it on over her head). There is NO type of prong that is mean to be used this way. They all go on/off either by unhooking one link or with a quick release if it has one (most don't and honestly the QR is more complicated than just using a link). I have used multiple QR prongs and I've never had one fail or come apart, but again these prongs were fitted properly. You don't HAVE to have a Herm Sprenger prong as long as the prongs themselves are smooth and rounded. I've used more than one pet store brand prong and they work just fine and go on/off the same way. In fact my pet store brand prongs have links that fit together tighter so are less likely to pop apart.

This is how a prong looks when fitted


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

It should be quite snug. More snug than you think. Also you don't use the dead ring. The safety of a prong is the pinching in the correction. It puts even pressure all around when closing. By using the dead ring you take that away. All your doing is pulling on the dogs neck. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

I don't have a herm sprenger, but I would like one. 

We have pet store cheap prongs for both Frag and Sir. 

We NEVER slip the collar over their head, always snug behind the ears/jaw. There should be no loose area in the collar to get your hands under, etc. 

As for how much we use them; any time we're going to be walking on a leash for a prolonged period of time Sir is on one. He will probably be walked on one regularly for a good portion of his life. Frag only wears his prong now when I don't really want to deal with making sure he's behaving; large dog events, quick trips to the pet store, etc. and I don't have to put any pressure on it anymore, he just stays close. 

Here's a good picture of my pit bull with his collar on so that you can see exactly where it's supposed to be and how tight with no hair in the way. You'll notice it's a good 3-4 inches higher than his collar. Sometimes they slip down a little because you can't take an extra prong out... I readjust prongs a few times per outing to make sure they are high on the neck.

** photo removed - max size 800 x 600 **


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

*sigh*

Prong collars don't pinch. It's impossible to get the links close enough together to physically pinch. There is no 'bite' and there is no 'pinch'!!

Think about this..... if it 'pinched' then it would need to be breed specific, because different breeds have different sized dewlaps, how would the collar 'pinch' consistantly? In fact, how would you control the amount of 'pinch' with any accuracy?

As for it being very snug and high on the neck.... well, if you don't want it to slide around while using a 6 foot lead and the dog running out in front of you the answer is.....get this.... change your technique and setup! The collar can be used in a variety of ways that doesn't need to be high up the neck and tight to work, I don't know why that's put forward as 'the only way'.

As for dead rings and live rings, the one at the top of the martingale is the usual one to use, that's the one that does all the work. If you link the two rings together it removes the play from the martingale (i.e. the on/off) and becomes an immediate correction, probably too immediate for most dogs in most circumstances, have the collar too snug and you've got a collar correcting permanently and it loses the effect unless you stop and put a link back in first, which no-one ever does.

I always love how people quote 'the correct way to use the collar is.....', when the correct way is what works with the least amount of pressure, and if that means a collar slightly loser than snug and on the top half of the neck rather than right behind the ears then that's the correct way for that dog.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

The problem with a loose prong is that this is how they pop apart and dogs get loose. It is not *designed* to be used that way. Yes, anyone can use any training collar any way they please but there is still a way it is optimally designed to be used. If the dog getting loose is not an issue than this point is moot. The collar does not "correct permanently", again it's not designed to do that and that would totally defeat the purpose (of any collar).


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

Liesje said:


> The problem with a loose prong is that this is how they pop apart and dogs get loose....


No, that's a design flaw in the cheaper collars with the big wire loop sides. It's also an indication that a collar hasn't been maintained, it only takes a few minutes every so often to unclip any loose links and splay the prongs outwards a bit more to tighten the collar back up.

It's rare anyone points this out, the immediate advice usually without any questions being asked first is "make sure the collar is tighter and high up behind the ears", utter nonsense.....


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> No, that's a design flaw in the cheaper collars with the big wire loop sides. It's also an indication that a collar hasn't been maintained, it only takes a few minutes every so often to unclip any loose links and splay the prongs outwards a bit more to tighten the collar back up.
> 
> It's rare anyone points this out, the immediate advice usually without any questions being asked first is "make sure the collar is tighter and high up behind the ears", utter nonsense.....


I try every day to get the prong to fit below the ears on my husky but he has too much fur and I think his build is such that he doesn't have the space? there. He's very sensitive to a very very gentl tug (I won't even call it a pop) of the leash. I've removed a link from his prong so that it no longer slips over his ears and head. I don't feel comfortable with it this way (I'd rather it be a little loose) but I don't want to cause an injury due to incorrect use.

Why do you say it's rubbish to fit a prong tightly below the ears ?


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## LuvMyDog_Worldwide (Jul 23, 2011)

If the collar is high up and so snug it won't move then there's already a degree of pressure on it permanently, it's always correcting so how do you apply a correction?

If you want it to be looser so it maintains an on/off action and stay high up on the neck then use a shorter lead and raise your hand up a little to alter the angle and the collar won't move.....


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## mego (Jan 27, 2013)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> If the collar is high up and so snug it won't move then there's already a degree of pressure on it permanently, it's always correcting so how do you apply a correction?
> 
> If you want it to be looser so it maintains an on/off action and stay high up on the neck then use a shorter lead and raise your hand up a little to alter the angle and the collar won't move.....


I dont think that snug pressure is correcting. You can have the collar be snug but still be able to move the links a little, often mine is snug on top of a little bit of hair, won't move, but she does not feel a correction unless I correct because they need to go deeper though the hair. If I tried I can lift up the links and stick a finger or two under them, but it's still very snug on her.


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## Clyde (Feb 13, 2011)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> As for dead rings and live rings, the one at the top of the martingale is the usual one to use, that's the one that does all the work. If you link the two rings together it removes the play from the martingale (i.e. the on/off) and becomes an immediate correction, probably too immediate for most dogs in most circumstances, have the collar too snug and you've got a collar correcting permanently and it loses the effect unless you stop and put a link back in first, which no-one ever does.


The correction is too immediate???? How, when timing is everything when it comes to communicating with our dogs whether through correction or positive reinforcement can you say that the timing of a correction can possibly be to "immediate"


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## DJEtzel (Feb 11, 2010)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> If the collar is high up and so snug it won't move then there's already a degree of pressure on it permanently, it's always correcting so how do you apply a correction?
> 
> If you want it to be looser so it maintains an on/off action and stay high up on the neck then use a shorter lead and raise your hand up a little to alter the angle and the collar won't move.....


I'm not sure you have any idea what you're talking about. Lies is correct it how prong collars work.

Zeeva, if you don't feel comfortable fitting them properly, you may want to opt for a harness or gentle leader to control pulling; wearing a loose prong is not safe or accurate.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

LuvMyDog_Worldwide said:


> If the collar is high up and so snug it won't move then there's already a degree of pressure on it permanently, it's always correcting so how do you apply a correction?
> 
> If you want it to be looser so it maintains an on/off action and stay high up on the neck then use a shorter lead and raise your hand up a little to alter the angle and the collar won't move.....


How the heck are you using a prong collar?


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## G-burg (Nov 10, 2002)

> If the collar is high up and so snug it won't move then there's already a degree of pressure on it permanently, it's always correcting so how do you apply a correction?


Interesting as I've heard this too from a couple of trainers from over seas.


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## ksotto333 (Aug 3, 2011)

The Secret Power is tightened by they outside nylon cover after being slipped over the head. When I walk work in public areas or near roads I always have the prong. I thinks it's more a security to me in case some extreme distraction happens. I don't remember the last time she needed a correction.


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