# Trouble At The Vet - Was I Wrong?



## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

Today I took my baby girl to the vet to get an abscess re checked out, it was already healing just wanted to make sure all looked good. Upon arriving to the vet I weighed her and the scale said 52 lbs. She's 7 months old almost 8 months so this seemed off to me, previous weight before her abscess burst was 48, and 48 to 52 doesnt seem unnormal of a jump but during that initial visit she some how jumped from almost 60 lbs if not 60 to 48 in a matter of days (5 at the most) and this seemed extremely off and even the vet then agreed that there was a possibility the scale was off. Well jump back today and I weigh her and let them know my concern and the vet tech very rudely told me that their scales were very accurate and maybe my scale and home was off. So i told her that she hadnt weighed under 50lbs since she was 4 months nor had she weighed under 55 since she was 5 months. Again the women was very rude. Finally we got into the examination room and we waited and upon returning Yska (being a very vocal and protective dog) Barked loudly at the techs, not aggressively but loudly, I calmed her down and they spoke to me and asked if she was aggressive, in which I replied clearly "No, she's never hurt anyone" and they left and I waited another 5 minutes. it was obvious my girl was anxious and i could tell she was feeding off of my energy because the rudeness of the tech was stressing me out. As the two techs returned with the Vet Yska Again barked loudly at the women and the tech jumped (again) and they all stood in the corner of the room acting like she was a grizzly bear. I tried to calm her down but she wouldn't subside, occasionally she would look at the vet and not make a sound but then immediately return her attention to the tech and again start up. Then the tech flat out very rudely said "Your dog is aggressive, i would prefer to put a muzzle on her" in which i repiled "I would prefer you didn't she is not going to like it and its going to stress her out and cause more of a problem" Yska has never had to wear a muzzle not even once, she wears a head collar when we're out but even just the small band around her nose stresses her out. needless to say I picked up my seemingly "52" pound dog and held her on the vet (the techs job) as she stood in the corner acting like it was a snake ready to strike. My girl was shaking and was obviously uncomfortable with the situation but never once striked out at the Vet, he even gave her a treat in which she took very gently and ate. We have never had this problem at the vet not even once, and has never been aggressive towards any adults, teens, children, or dogs. Ive only ever seen her play gently with small dogs and is very careful with injured dogs. This girl is literally the sweetest dog i've ever owned. With that being said she is vocal and intimidating when she barks (she has a huge bark) and I'm aware not everyone can tell when a dog is agressive or just being protective/loud, But i expected a TRAINED vet tech to be able to tell the two apart (I can and I've only had a year of Veterinary Training). Was I wrong for not allowing them to muzzle my dog, even though I told this women she wasn't aggressive and it was obvious she wasnt? I have taken her to this vet office without problems 4-5 times already and never once did they feel they had to muzzle her. they all raved she was a good girl and as sweet as pie. I personally think it was the tech that was the problem not my dog and felt it wasnt right to put her under more stress then she already was because this women was untrained and ignorant.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

So I am going to answer this from a vet tech point of view. Being one for 20 years, have a bit of experience. 

Shepherds can be intimidating. Even as an owner, I can walk into a room and be intimidated. 

Your dog was "mouthing off" you admit that. This tech may have never met her before. And really did not want to be bit by a fearful nervous dog. I can't fault them. 

It sounds as if they prejudged though. And set you on edge from the get go. Your frustration lead down the leash. It happens. 

But I can't count, on all my digits, how many owners have said " oh he/she would never bite, they are just scared" I have the scars to prove they are wrong. 

I am an excellent tech. I am great at reading dogs. And good at reading owners. I am happy to try. But I am going to say, off the bat "maybe a party hat to take their mind off me". 

Just because she did not act out this time, does not mean she is incapable. You dealt with techs that were not experienced, and that's annoying. But as the owner of a breed that has the capability to be aggressive, it would have gone over better if you had been the least bit receptive to their concerns. They were not unfounded based on your story.


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## misfits (Jan 13, 2011)

Don't know if the tech was right or wrong, maybe she has been bitten before? But, situations like this are exzactly why both my dogs are very well muzzle trained. I've never to muzzle them at the vet's but if should have to, it's really no big deal to them. They know lots of treats are coming when their muzzle is put on.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

Yeah you're very right, I would be the same way, weary of a dog that was barking. I just felt it was inappropriate to flat out tell me "Your dog is aggressive" and then proceed to not do her job. I also know dogs can attack out of fear, mine has never and would rather run then fight, even when cornered. but it is true, acting out should never be ruled out especially in a situation as such.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Apollo is not fond of the vet techs either. He just don't like them. The vet is questionable but she ignores him and has a conversation with me and then he is fine. I told them to muzzle him if that was what they wanted to do. I think I even brought the muzzle with me. They declined and continued what they were there to do without issue. I was a vet tech and I think I would have taken me up on the offer to muzzle him. I'm sure your frustration didn't help. I think it's important for dogs to be comfortable at the vets. My vet is ok with me coming in every now and then for absolutely nothing to get Apollo used to it, he has been ok until he sees those techs(it's getting better).


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

I might find a new vet.

I know that sounds extreme, but I've never had a vet want to muzzle any of my GSDs.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

llombardo said:


> Apollo is not fond of the vet techs either. He just don't like them. The vet is questionable but she ignores him and has a conversation with me and then he is fine. I told them to muzzle him if that was what they wanted to do. I think I even brought the muzzle with me. They declined and continued what they were there to do without issue. I was a vet tech and I think I would have taken me up on the offer to muzzle him. I'm sure your frustration didn't help. I think it's important for dogs to be comfortable at the vets. My vet is ok with me coming in every now and then for absolutely nothing to get Apollo used to it, he has been ok until he sees those techs(it's getting better).


Yska has been okay with every other tech, so I'm thinking it may have been not only she was getting her energy from me, but also that fact that the tech was wearing glasses, she doesnt like things that reflect. She runs from packaged mushrooms. 
Do you think even with me knowing it would cause more of a problem to have one on then have one off, i still should have accepted? She's not head shy but if she has anything on her muzzle she flails her head and becomes like a fish out of water, kind of reminiscent of a horse trying to get away from a trainer. far worse then she would be just being contained in a headlock.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

ThroughYska'sEyes said:


> Yeah you're very right, I would be the same way, weary of a dog that was barking. I just felt it was inappropriate to flat out tell me "Your dog is aggressive" and then proceed to not do her job. I also know dogs can attack out of fear, mine has never and would rather run then fight, even when cornered. but it is true, acting out should never be ruled out especially in a situation as such.


So, again, from their POV. We know a fearful dog would rather run that fight. But we HAVE to handle them. We HAVE to stop them from running. Which leads to one other option, fight. I hate it. I really do. I wish I had an hour to get a dog to trust me, but I have 15 minutes. 

I am not saying you were wrong. If you think a tech is setting your dog off, ask for a different one. It's your right as an owner. As a tech, I have often said "let me get 'so and so' she loves Rottweilers!" I know I am not great with certain types of dogs. 

But don't pretend they don't have a reason to be on guard. If you get defensive from the get go, if they feel you are "block headed" to your dogs behavior, they will be on the offensive. 

No one wants to think their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue. It always goes easier if you acknowledge your dog is on edge and suggest something. "No offense, but my boy is super on edge around you, not sure why, you seem awesome, can we see if he is on edge with another tech?" Or " man my pup is crazy today! Not sure why he is acting up, do you think we should put a party hat on him, just to be safe?" Acknowledge, I guarantee most techs will respond with a bit more PC. 

But if a dog is lunging me, frothing at the mouth, crazy whale eyed, and the owner is in total denial " no missy froo froo Loves people" I will be on guard as well.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

zyppi said:


> I might find a new vet.
> 
> I know that sounds extreme, but I've never had a vet want to muzzle any of my GSDs.


That was what I was thinking of doing, I have personally worked at that vet a while back before any of the new techs came, and the Vets themselves are awesome, very understanding and helpful. and at the Time the techs were great too, also understanding and knew how to work with the animals and knew the animals well. Now coming back with my own dog years later I feel they may have lost a handle on stuff. Most of the techs are young and clearly undertrained or under educated ( They tried to over vaccinate my dog after i told them 3 times shes was UTD" , but the one we had a problem with was older, maybe in her late 40's. I just felt the situation was handled very poorly seeing as my dog clearly showed no sign of aggression and by the way she acted I felt she was also untrained, as she was the only one to jump and pretty much hide in the corner as well as stand over my dog, back her into a corner and reach her hand out and try to grab her. whereas the vet calmly stood and waited for me to pick her up and set her on the table. I want vet experiences to be a breeze for her, not anxiety and fear-ridden.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

ThroughYska'sEyes said:


> Yska has been okay with every other tech, so I'm thinking it may have been not only she was getting her energy from me, but also that fact that the tech was wearing glasses, she doesnt like things that reflect. She runs from packaged mushrooms.
> Do you think even with me knowing it would cause more of a problem to have one on then have one off, i still should have accepted? She's not head shy but if she has anything on her muzzle she flails her head and becomes like a fish out of water, kind of reminiscent of a horse trying to get away from a trainer. far worse then she would be just being contained in a headlock.


Think of it this way. How would she be if she had to spend the night at the vet or the techs had to work on her away from you? I don't think putting a muzzle on a dog is going to hurt the dog, it would actually be less stressful because everyone would feel safe and she would sense that. If the tech was afraid of her she probably sensed that. I've bern bit by a GSD, a fast split second bite and I should have had stitches. They have to protect themselves to. I do think they should have handled it differently.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> ThroughYska'sEyes said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah you're very right, I would be the same way, weary of a dog that was barking. I just felt it was inappropriate to flat out tell me "Your dog is aggressive" and then proceed to not do her job. I also know dogs can attack out of fear, mine has never and would rather run then fight, even when cornered. but it is true, acting out should never be ruled out especially in a situation as such.
> ...


Bella will run before fight. Which is scary for me. A little chihuahua charged at us two days ago she tried to run from him and almost dragged me to the grown (ears back tail tucked). It bothered me a little but then again I'm kind of thankful that she didn't react to him. He came from behind us we didn't hear or see him until he started snapping and barking at my ankles. It could've ended bad for the little nugget. I didn't know if I should praise her so I just ignored what happened and let walking.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

gsdsar said:


> So, again, from their POV. We know a fearful dog would rather run that fight. But we HAVE to handle them. We HAVE to stop them from running. Which leads to one other option, fight. I hate it. I really do. I wish I had an hour to get a dog to trust me, but I have 15 minutes.
> 
> I am not saying you were wrong. If you think a tech is setting your dog off, ask for a different one. It's your right as an owner. As a tech, I have often said "let me get 'so and so' she loves Rottweilers!" I know I am not great with certain types of dogs.
> 
> ...


Haha I wouldnt go as far as saying she was whale eyed and frothing nor was she lunging. She was Just barking loudly. No hackles were shown, no growling, No barring of teeth, just barking. I do agree on not having the same vet tech, as i put under in a respone i believe it may have had to do something with her glasses since Yska doesnt like reflective objects and it was only that one women she was barking at. as for being block headed, i try to keep a very open mind and when it comes to my dog and being at the vet because she is still young and unpredictable so i know anything could happen and working at the vet also makes me more compassionate to what they have to deal with on a daily basis, The tech I assume was having a bad day and was rude to me from the get go all the way until I left.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Bella will run before fight. Which is scary for me. A little chihuahua charged at us two days ago she tried to run from him and almost dragged me to the grown (ears back tail tucked). It bothered me a little but then again I'm kind of thankful that she didn't react to him. He came from behind us we didn't hear or see him until he started snapping and barking at my ankles. It could've ended bad for the little nugget. I didn't know if I should praise her so I just ignored what happened and let walking.


That is exactly how Yska is, she runs between my legs and looks to me for protection. She lets Corgi's beat her up. She's loud but a big baby. Most of the time she barks are fierce like and then people stick their hand out and start petting her and she becomes a puddle of dork from all the love. She just talks a big game.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I have a gsd who is a nervous wreck at the vet. Never any aggressive displays, just hiding and trying to run away. We had one tech who for some reason decided to stuff my dog in a corner, manhandled the **** out of her, scaredvthe crap out of her. I had to intervene and ask him to stop it. There was absolutely no need to stuff her in a corner like that, never seen anything like it.

My male who had made some threats was trained to wear a basket muzzle which I brought with me to every appt. They muzzled him with a cloth muzzle once and he panicked because he couldnt open his mouth, so I always brought his basket and offered to muzzle him. Some vets took me up on it, some didnt. Some men he liked and he wouldn't cause trouble, some men he didn't care for and I would muzzle him. If they took him from me to draw blood, I muzzled him. Such a simple preventative measure ...

Your dog made a threat. Muzzle train your dog. Some vet techs have horrible bedside manner, so i can relate. But what the other person said about people saying "my dog will never bite".....people are often way wrong about their dogs. Not saying you are. But if someone said that to me I wouldnt believe it.

So, do the best you can to foster a positive relationship between your dog and vet staff, be ready with a muzzle, they dont want to get bit and shouldnt have to.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

llombardo said:


> Think of it this way. How would she be if she had to spend the night at the vet or the techs had to work on her away from you? I don't think putting a muzzle on a dog is going to hurt the dog, it would actually be less stressful because everyone would feel safe and she would sense that. If the tech was afraid of her she probably sensed that. I've bern bit by a GSD, a fast split second bite and I should have had stitches. They have to protect themselves to. I do think they should have handled it differently.


Well seeing as she's a big baby she would cry. Not be aggressive in any way. when her abscess burst they had to take her in the back and i left and she did perfect. they raved about how good she was and how sweet of a girl she is. No complaints at all.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I have a gsd who is a nervous wreck at the vet. Never any aggressive displays, just hiding and trying to run away. We had one tech who for some reason decided to stuff my dog in a corner, manhandled the **** out of her, scaredvthe crap out of her. I had to intervene and ask him to stop it. There was absolutely no need to stuff her in a corner like that, never seen anything like it.
> 
> My male who had made some threats was trained to wear a basket muzzle which I brought with me to every appt. They muzzled him with a cloth muzzle once and he panicked because he couldnt open his mouth, so I always brought his basket and offered to muzzle him. Some vets took me up on it, some didnt. Some men he liked and he wouldn't cause trouble, some men he didn't care for and I would muzzle him. If they took him from me to draw blood, I muzzled him. Such a simple preventative measure ...
> 
> ...


Very true, I definitely agree on muzzle training her in case this ever happens again, God forbid it does. But definitely wasn't ready for such a situation since it's never happened before. I am completely all for bomb proofing a dog with pretty much everything that could come into their way.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ThroughYska'sEyes said:


> Yeah you're very right, I would be the same way, weary of a dog that was barking. I just felt it was inappropriate to flat out tell me "Your dog is aggressive" and then proceed to not do her job. I also know dogs can attack out of fear, mine has never and would rather run then fight, even when cornered. but it is true, acting out should never be ruled out especially in a situation as such.


Grammar Police: 

You can be _weary_ of the dog barking next door for hours on end; but you maybe should be _wary_ of a dog that is sick/injured, at a veterinary clinic, and acting stressed. 

It would be helpful to write a couple of sentences, a thought, and then add a return to put a blank line between your thoughts. It makes it easier for some of us to follow.

Ok, your pup is young enough to be a bit unpredictable, and old enough that it will hurt if she does something undesirable. Your dog may have been a sweet baby girl up to this point, but she also has it in her breeding to protect you and to protect herself if she feels that is necessary, if she is afraid enough.

My parents had a little old English Setter, known as the gentleman of dog breeds. Sweetest dog ever. Soft mouth. Excellent with kids and people of all types, and he was getting to be an older guy at this point, but not in pain, and not _elderly. _The vet made the dog bleed when she was doing something to him, and he snapped at her and surprised all of us. Never saw anything like that in this dog. He was about 9 years old. He did not bite her, but it was a clear warning. And it blindsided all of us. It was closer than any of my shepherds have ever been to biting the vet. 

And even so, you have no way of knowing what a pup might do if she feels hurt or scared enough. You want to be respected. But you should show some respect as well. It is far better for my dog to have worn a muzzle for a few minutes, that to have bitten someone. The tech would have been more at ease, and it is possible the dog would have been as well.

We know our dogs. We have lived with them, and we know they will never hurt a flea. The vet tech sees hundreds of dogs a week. She does not know the temperaments and history of every dog she meets. She has to look at the dog in front of her and determine whether she should suggest a muzzle or require a muzzle. And most pet owners who know their little Pookie-fuzzle-buttkin would never hurt anyone are not going to accept that lying down. 

Lastly, you chose to own a GSD. GSDs are bred with some aggression. They cannot do the work their breed was designed for without it. So, it really ought to be there. Aggression is not a bad trait. What is bad is when we cannot control and channel or defuse aggression -- properly manage the dog so that no one gets hurt. Sometimes it takes a relationship of a number of years for a vet clinics veterinarians and staff to trust a dog owner to be able keep everyone safe. 

Should staff immediately recognize our breed and hand us a muzzle? No. But if one questions the dog or owner's ability to manage the situation, then the muzzle should be put on. The dog will have less trouble with it than you will.


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

ThroughYska'sEyes said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > Bella will run before fight. Which is scary for me. A little chihuahua charged at us two days ago she tried to run from him and almost dragged me to the grown (ears back tail tucked). It bothered me a little but then again I'm kind of thankful that she didn't react to him. He came from behind us we didn't hear or see him until he started snapping and barking at my ankles. It could've ended bad for the little nugget. I didn't know if I should praise her so I just ignored what happened and let walking.
> ...


Yup exactly like Bella, around the house she sounds like scariest dog you could ever imagine. Soon as you start talking in that high pitch voice she's all yours. I will say this Bella has had one moment where she did snap at a dog. She had one moment when she did growl over a bowl but I think those were phases overall she's a teddy bear. I will be completely honest I was very upset at first because I wanted her to be that beast by nature but as the more I learned about the breed and the more I actually started spending tremendous amount of time with her I've learned a lot and I accept who she is. Every since then you can sense the positive energy between us two.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

ILoveBella478 said:


> Yup exactly like Bella, around the house she sounds like scariest dog you could ever imagine. Soon as you start talking in that high pitch voice she's all yours. I will say this Bella has had one moment where she did snap at a dog. She had one moment when she did growl over a bowl but I think those were phases overall she's a teddy bear. I will be completely honest I was very upset at first because I wanted her to be that beast by nature but as the more I learned about the breed and the more I actually started spending tremendous amount of time with her I've learned a lot and I accept who she is. Every since then you can sense the positive energy between us two.


That is exactly how I felt, I wanted her to be a force to be reckoned with but she's just a sack of potatoes. She's the type of dog that leaves the water bowl when our Papillion wants to have a drink. Though I have yet to see her snap at another dog she does growl... at nothing(She thinks she's a midnight Ghost Buster). But all and all she's pretty much a big loud pile of white taters.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

gsdsar said:


> So, again, from their POV. We know a fearful dog would rather run that fight. But we HAVE to handle them. We HAVE to stop them from running. Which leads to one other option, fight. I hate it. I really do. I wish I had an hour to get a dog to trust me, but I have 15 minutes.
> 
> I am not saying you were wrong. If you think a tech is setting your dog off, ask for a different one. It's your right as an owner. As a tech, I have often said "let me get 'so and so' she loves Rottweilers!" I know I am not great with certain types of dogs.
> 
> ...


 The only thing worse than thinking "their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue" is _knowing_ "their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue." 

If any doubt whatsoever, use a muzzle, so you never will have to know what your dog can actually do to someone in a pinch.


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## maxtmill (Dec 28, 2010)

I have always gotten our dogs use to having a muzzle on, just in case it is ever needed. Our first shepherd was one of the few our vet never had to muzzle, according to him. He said that our buying from a good breeder was obvious - most of his shepherd patients were from BYBs, and he found many of them to have unsteady nerves. I usually take my own muzzle to the vet,which our dogs are familiar with, even our little pug!


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## ILoveBella478 (Mar 13, 2015)

ThroughYska'sEyes said:


> ILoveBella478 said:
> 
> 
> > Yup exactly like Bella, around the house she sounds like scariest dog you could ever imagine. Soon as you start talking in that high pitch voice she's all yours. I will say this Bella has had one moment where she did snap at a dog. She had one moment when she did growl over a bowl but I think those were phases overall she's a teddy bear. I will be completely honest I was very upset at first because I wanted her to be that beast by nature but as the more I learned about the breed and the more I actually started spending tremendous amount of time with her I've learned a lot and I accept who she is. Every since then you can sense the positive energy between us two.
> ...


I believe it will kick in for Bella. Her mom has 0 tolerance and she's scary. It will come with age and time. She's only 1 year and 4 months. So I think around 2 she will have that I'm getting serious braveness in her hopefully. If not, it's ok I know my male I'm getting in July will.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

As someone who still bares the scars from a "super sweet awesome" 5 mo Bernese Mountain dog puppy who bit through my wrist, yeah.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

selzer said:


> The only thing worse than thinking "their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue" is _knowing_ "their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue."
> 
> If any doubt whatsoever, use a muzzle, so you never will have to know what your dog can actually do to someone in a pinch.



I know my "wonderful sweet amazing puppy" would generally not cause an issue because it's not in her nature. Even when provoked, and she has been provoked by dogs and humans, she's sadly not the kind of German Shepherd to react in an aggressive way. She will intimidate the **** out of you, but never go as far to actually attack. She is by nature a submissive dog. 

Will I say she will never attack? No, because that's pure ignorance to say "Oh my baby girl will never ever attack anyone" Because things happen and dogs are dogs. But to say "My dog has never attacked or bitten anyone" is the complete and utter truth. I know my dog is loud and intimidating but I also know she's never been one to act on that or be aggressive towards people or dogs. 

I think muzzle training is an excellent bit of training to work on to always have it to fall back on. But I also don't feel I should have to subject my dog to unneeded stress due to an Untrained vet tech. 

Would I ever allow her to harm anyone because of my ignorance? No. If I felt In any way she was putting out an aggressive vibe or that I thought she would attack/bite them if they tried to touch her I would have immediately stated so and allowed for a muzzle or handled her myself. 

But knowing her as I do, My job was to ensure the Tech knew she was an unaggressive dog as well as ensure my dog wasn't put under any other stress than they had already put on her. ie. Cornering her, Standing/hovering over her while in a corner and reach her hands out to the dogs face and retracting them swiftly in an intimidating manner (Though I know that was not her intention).

I 100% agree on "better safe than sorry" but sometimes the things we feel are safe, aren't the proper safety precautions.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

From a dog-owner's perspective who has ZERO experience being a vet tech:

I trust Gryffon 100% and I trusted Keeta 100% when going to the vet. However, a GSD, and an obvious Rottweiler mix ARE going to be intimidating, even to experienced dog people who work with them. My dogs loved the vets and the tech, and always think that going to the vet is fun and exciting! However, they may express some displeasure when being probed, examined, needled, and ouchies being cleaned and handled. Pain and "I don't like this" reactions may be a growl, or a sharp yip. 

If I see that the tech or the vet are even a LITTLE bit unsure about my dog's possible reaction, I offer to muzzle them. They don't need to be muzzled, but I don't want the vet or tech to feel unsafe around my dogs. I've had two vets tell me now that the only people they feel they can trust in their dog's temperament assessment are owners of working dogs who work them (police k9, Sch/IPO, SAR etc), and people who do high-level agility with their dogs. 

People who don't have that level of experience training, working, handling dogs are just not reliable in being able to assess their dogs temperament properly, and many many of them have the bite scars to prove it. They both told me that I'm one of those very few people whom they ask to stay with their dogs and help when they are doing procedures like put Gryff under for stitches, or x-rays, or when other procedures get done, because my presence actually calms him, and they know that I have control over him. 

That said, I did leave one vet clinic because I felt that the staff there did not respect my wishes about how my dogs should be handled, and I felt that they did not respect my input and knowledge about my dogs (like getting lectured about feeding raw, for example). So in that regard, I would consider finding some other place. But when working with a vet, I want the staff to feel safe and not worry about getting hurt, and don't take the muzzle thing personally. My dogs trust me enough that if I put a muzzle on them, and tell them "leave it", they just accept it.

And the staff trust me too - I have asked vets and techs to not bend over top of Gryff, to stand to the side when looking into his ears (instead of in front, etc). Stuff I can do no problem, but I could tell it made Gryff uncomfortable when someone else was doing it. Said in a normal, conversational voice, there is no defensiveness involved, and always had cooperation.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

selzer said:


> The only thing worse than thinking "their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue" is _knowing_ "their wonderful sweet amazing puppy could cause an issue."
> 
> If any doubt whatsoever, use a muzzle, so you never will have to know what your dog can actually do to someone in a pinch.



I know my "wonderful sweet amazing puppy" would generally not cause an issue because it's not in her nature. Even when provoked, and she has been provoked by dogs and humans, she's sadly not the kind of German Shepherd to react in an aggressive way. She will intimidate the **** out of you, but never go as far to actually attack. She is by nature a submissive dog. 

Will I say she will never attack? No, because that's pure ignorance to say "Oh my baby girl will never ever attack anyone" Because things happen and dogs are dogs. But to say "My dog has never attacked or bitten anyone" is the complete and utter truth. I know my dog is loud and intimidating but I also know she's never been one to act on that or be aggressive towards people or dogs. 

I think muzzle training is an excellent bit of training to work on to always have it to fall back on. But I also don't feel I should have to subject my dog to unneeded stress due to an Untrained vet tech. 

Would I ever allow her to harm anyone because of my ignorance? No. If I felt In any way she was putting out an aggressive vibe or that I thought she would attack/bite them if they tried to touch her I would have immediately stated so and allowed for a muzzle or handled her myself. 

But knowing her as I do, My job was to ensure the Tech knew she was an unaggressive dog as well as ensure my dog wasn't put under any other stress than they had already put on her. ie. Cornering her, Standing/hovering over her while in a corner and reach her hands out to the dogs face and retracting them swiftly in an intimidating manner (Though I know that was not her intention).

I 100% agree on "better safe than sorry" but sometimes the things we feel are safe, aren't the proper safety precautions. I initially stated to them that I was unable to move her up to the table, as she's a bag of bricks, and the vet said he'd be able to do the examination on the floor, but I luckily was able to pick her up and set her on the table. (Must have been all that weight training I was doing.. Not.) From there she was as quiet as ever, though she was shaking from fear and anxiety and she allowed him to check her no problem and even gently accepted two treats from him. 

By using the safety precaution of me holding her instead of a muzzle, in which she would have thrashed about and caused potential harm to herself, She had a better ending to a very intense experience.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

She's 7 months old, almost eight months old. Her adult temperament is not completely there yet. I am sorry, but no. Sorry. Maybe if this was a pup out of your third generation with the lines, and 20 years of experience, maybe. Maybe. But no way would I let the owner of a 7 or 8 month old puppy convince me that their dog would never bite in this situation.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

Castlemaid said:


> From a dog-owner's perspective who has ZERO experience being a vet tech:
> 
> I trust Gryffon 100% and I trusted Keeta 100% when going to the vet. However, a GSD, and an obvious Rottweiler mix ARE going to be intimidating, even to experienced dog people who work with them. My dogs loved the vets and the tech, and always think that going to the vet is fun and exciting! However, they may express some displeasure when being probed, examined, needled, and ouchies being cleaned and handled. Pain and "I don't like this" reactions may be a growl, or a sharp yip.
> 
> ...


This is great input, I've luckily have yet to have an experience where yska has snapped or yipped over a painful spot, and she just recently had something cause her leg to swell up and an abscess to burst. She's more of one to nudge your hand and lick you so you know that bothers her.

With Yska being so young, I definitely still have a lot of training to do with her and see small changes in her every day, and definitely, a long way to go until her personality settles. But knowing her as she is, and being very familiar with dog behaviour according to their breed, I feel I have a decently strong handle on her different temperaments and signs being shown. Though because I am young, that is often challenged and causes a bigger problem then If I looked like I had "Years of training" and this I'm well aware of. 

For the most part, I trust what they say, and follow accordingly unless I feel there is a better route to be taken. It has been a while since I've been to this vet and the staff is new so I'm slowly getting used to having to gain their trust once more, As the previous staff I had worked with and was very close with so just like you I was often asked to come back with my pets when they felt it would be best that I did. 

It is definitely hard not to step on toes when you know all of the procedures as well as going to school for Veterinary studies. You've learned one way, they say another and you it's a roadblock to decide on the best action to take.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

selzer said:


> She's 7 months old, almost eight months old. Her adult temperament is not completely there yet. I am sorry, but no. Sorry. Maybe if this was a pup out of your third generation with the lines, and 20 years of experience, maybe. Maybe. But no way would I let the owner of a 7 or 8 month old puppy convince me that their dog would never bite in this situation.


You are correct her Temperament isn't completely there yet. But if you want to go into the temperament of generations before her, Her father was a Panda Shepherd from an American working line with a docile demeanour. Her mother was from Europen show line with a docile, maternal demeanour. 

I also said she would never bite, I said she has not ever bitten. Though she is young, you shouldn't rule out a puppies initial personality to be their final one. Yes they are cuddly love balls at a few months but when they start to get to 5-8 months their personality starts to round its self out. 

I trained 2 Doberman brothers and by 8 months I knew which one had to be sent back due to aggression and which one was suitable for family/farm living. to completely rule out a dogs personality because their not yet an adult is bogus.
and to say that knowing a generational line is going to completely tell you how the dog will end up is also bogus. Both parents could be Docile working types and she could end up high strung and aggressive. Just like humans, dogs will take on their on personality. Breeding and knowing your dogs pedigree helps when trying to get a handle on how he may end, but shouldn't be relied on.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

maxtmill said:


> I have always gotten our dogs use to having a muzzle on, just in case it is ever needed. Our first shepherd was one of the few our vet never had to muzzle, according to him. He said that our buying from a good breeder was obvious - most of his shepherd patients were from BYBs, and he found many of them to have unsteady nerves. I usually take my own muzzle to the vet,which our dogs are familiar with, even our little pug!


Definitely after reading everyone's response that will be my next step! I hate seeing her in such a bad position because we weren't prepared.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

ILoveBella478 said:


> I believe it will kick in for Bella. Her mom has 0 tolerance and she's scary. It will come with age and time. She's only 1 year and 4 months. So I think around 2 she will have that I'm getting serious braveness in her hopefully. If not, it's ok I know my male I'm getting in July will.


Theres always hope when you think about how much more they have to grow mentally and physically!


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

The vet practice sounds like it is a bit rushed or stressed. About weighing in, the vet tech could have assisted you and/or made sure it was set at "zero". There are two scales at the vet practice we go to, if they had more than one they could have tried it.

Our vet and vet techs, even though they know Molly well now, still take a few moments to get down to her level and greet her, giver her a chance to get over the initial excitement, offer some treats. I am lucky in that a few vet techs have GSDs at the practice I go to and understand their behavior, and one knows us from meeting at a neighborhood park.

You may want to shop around if you live in an area with competitive vet practices and specifically ask them if they have staff familiar with GSDs. Then take your dog there for social visits, just have fun meet and greets with the staff so your dog learns it is not a scary, harsh place. Your recent visit seemed harsh.


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## ThroughYska'sEyes (Mar 9, 2016)

Gretchen said:


> The vet practice sounds like it is a bit rushed or stressed. About weighing in, the vet tech could have assisted you and/or made sure it was set at "zero". There are two scales at the vet practice we go to, if they had more than one they could have tried it.
> 
> Our vet and vet techs, even though they know Molly well now, still take a few moments to get down to her level and greet her, giver her a chance to get over the initial excitement, offer some treats. I am lucky in that a few vet techs have GSDs at the practice I go to, and knows me from meeting at a neighborhood park.
> 
> You may want to shop around if you live in an area with competitive vet practices and specifically ask them if they have staff familiar with GSDs. Then take your dog there for social visits, just have fun meet and greets with the staff so your dog learns it is not a scary, harsh place. Your recent visit seemed harsh.


That was what I was thinking I'd do exactly. It's sad that we both felt so uncomfortable at this place since I do know the vets who work there and they are very wonderful. Being gone for so long and then returning to a whole new staff was a surprise but no problem, we both love meeting new people. 

One of my biggest concerns was that I felt these new techs were uneducated in many different aspects, as they tried to forcefully revaccinate my dog when I kindly asked them not to as well as the situation I described. 

It's sad to remember a place just like you described, where the techs would meet the dog or cat and get to know them and come back to the same place and it seem rushed and caring more about making their appointments than they do the animals they care for. definitely a situation that could have been avoided if they would have just taken a minute.


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

It's not in my job description to tolerate an out of control dog who is capable of severely injuring me, whether the owner *thinks* they have the most stable dog in the world or not. A muzzle is for the safety of the people who are responsible for treating that pet. Feel free to treat her at home instead next time, if the dogs' comfort is more important than the safety of the people around you.


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## arycrest (Feb 28, 2006)

My sister had a friend with an out of control GSD. Whenever the dog went off her friend would say, "He's protecting me." Protecting her from what ... at an obedience class when he tried to go after someone? When the dog mauled a vet's arm? When you just looked at the dog. The dog was dangerous, a disaster waiting to happen and her friend remained clueless.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabi loved the vet, thought it was a social event. She was muzzled every time we went. The vet always took her muzzle off, but it was his choice. The senior tech never had any trouble, a couple of the younger girls were afraid.
Bud is indifferent, muzzled every time and he stays muzzled at my request.
Shadow is a fear biter and fast as ****, muzzled and stays muzzled, again at my request.

I love my dogs. I am intelligent enough to realize that even for the most stable of dogs such an environment can be stressful. Add to that techs who may have many years of experience or may still be in school and I say better safe then sorry. 
Keep in mind that not all people even in a vet clinic like or are experienced with dogs.
Teach your pup to wear a muzzle and if asked put it on her.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

If I was in your shoes, would I be upset at the tech's attitude and treatment absolutely. I am sensitive to people criticizing in that harsh of tones and I tend to snap back 

But at the other end if I saw my dog acting that way, I would muzzle her myself without hesitation. Much less stress for the humans involved and the lowered stress most likely would result in the dog being calmer

I LOVE my vet, I truly do. He is one of the kindest, gentlest, sweetest people you will ever meet in your life. My point is, find a vet you trust and then you can relax and be part of the team that is looking out for your dog's best interest no matter what they ask. I've had requests for the dog to be brought to the back for procedures? Do I like it, no I much prefer for them to stay with them but I trust the staff that if they asked I would say yes.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> Keep in mind that not all people even in a vet clinic like or are experienced with dogs.


Yes, I see myself as part of the team there, helping the younger, less experienced techs. One young lady tried to take Keeta's prong collar off by PULLING it over her head! Bless Keeta, she just bugged her eyes out and gave out an "OUMPH!" for being strangled as the tech was pulling the collar up. I quickly jumped in with "Let me show you how those come off" and showed her how to undo a link to take the collar off. The tech has never seen a prong collar before - I was surprised too, but it made me see that often the techs may not have as much experience in some areas as I do - 

I could have been rude: "Stop you idiot! You're strangling her!!", but that's just not my personality, and even under stress, I try to remember to treat people the way I would like to be treated if roles were reversed, so a helpful "here, let me show you" probably went a Looooonnnng way in establishing good client/vet relations.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I think is the way it was handled is the issue very unprofessional and would feel very uncomfortable there. The staff plays just as important role as the vet does as keeping clients happy and not to leave. Sounded like the technician took her anxiety out on you. On Muzzling to make everyone feel safe -absolutely.


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## Arlene/Archer (Mar 7, 2013)

I think it's better to muzzle train a dog in any event, good natured or not. An injured dog or a frightened dog can lash out- not out of badness- but just a split second reaction to stimulus. Better for dogs/owners/vets/ if no harm comes to anyone.
Archer hates the vets with a grand passion, he's muzzled in there and he's never show any aggression, it's just for peace of mind.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

maxtmill said:


> I have always gotten our dogs use to having a muzzle on, just in case it is ever needed. Our first shepherd was one of the few our vet never had to muzzle, according to him. He said that our buying from a good breeder was obvious - most of his shepherd patients were from BYBs, and he found many of them to have unsteady nerves. I usually take my own muzzle to the vet,which our dogs are familiar with, even our little pug!


Training to a muzzle, like training to a crate, is a good tool to have in that tool box. It isn't a bad thing at all. Will improve your training skills too. I like that I have that if needed, never needed yet. As a SAR dog, it may be that some of our transports (esp. helicopters) require a muzzle out of policy. Most dogs I have seen doing helicopter work are fine. BUT, I have no problem with the muzzle requirement if it makes the pilot more comfortable. The other time when I may need it is when a dog is injured. They do become unpredictable even if you have the best relationship with your fur baby.... I said that last word in jest. Creeps me out. hahah.

Writing this reminds me that I should pull that muzzle out of the pack and do some refresher training!


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## Moriah (May 20, 2014)

Arlene/Archer said:


> I think it's better to muzzle train a dog in any event, good natured or not. An injured dog or a frightened dog can lash out- not out of badness- but just a split second reaction to stimulus. Better for dogs/owners/vets/ if no harm comes to anyone.
> Archer hates the vets with a grand passion, he's muzzled in there and he's never show any aggression, it's just for peace of mind.


Peace of mind. It's my job to keep my GSD safe. GSDs are considered a defensive breed and will be in major trouble for an incident a golden or chihuahua could get away with. Muzzle training is a lot of positive reinforcement. My GSD is fine with putting on a muzzle and wearing one. He knows it is a Pez dispenser. The vet techs are relaxed--everyone wins.


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

I admit I didn't read every response but let me say that the only time Traveler gets muzzled is when I get his nails trimmed.:blush: He hates it that bad. He growls and pulls and cries like someone is torturing him. It is so bad and sooo embarrassing. The man charges $8 and I give him a $20. It's that bad.

Of course this shows that I did a lousy job training him to deal with nail trimming but my point is this: Why not muzzle? Everyone is safe and treats flow after the job is done. Do I feel they are mistreating him? Absolutely not. Do I feel he is being a jerk? Absolutely. 

Your dog was being a jerk to. It happens when they are in a perceived unfriendly environment either because we are anxious (I hate, hate, hate taking Traveler for nail trims) or they are anxious. A muzzle just insures that everyone can relax a little bit. 

Just my two cents.

Lynn & Traveler


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

We had one very aggressive GSD that had to be muzzled when he came in, the bad part? The owner never did it correctly and the dog got out of it. Finally the vet gave him a sedative and gave him his shot through the car window while the dog laid facing the other wsy--talk about moving fast!! The dog was eventually put to sleep due to his aggression. The only other dog that was super bad was a cocker spaniel. Oh and the husky that big the vet because she came up from behind him--a very stupid move.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

When I took Newlie in to see two different surgeons about his torn ACL, he wasn't barking or growling or anything, but he is a big dog and I am sure the manipulation of that knee hurts so they said "We are going to turn the teeth toward you." and I was fine with that. I held his collar and he hid his face in my lap and cried and fussed while they were working on him, but that was it.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Bottom line: if your dog is putting on a display at people who haven't touched it yet, you need to deal with it.

Saying "I know my dog isn't dangerous and you can't muzzle it" isn't fair to the people who have to handle your dog. If I were the tech I might have refused. The dog is making a threat. Or at least a statement of major discomfort. Either could result in a bite, since in this situation the dog can't retreat.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I know you are upset because you love your puppy. The tech was rude and out of line, but look at the situation from a different perspective. One of my dogs as a puppy about your dog's age put his teeth on a vet. She said He tried to bite me. No, actually, he didn't. That dog always expressed stress with teeth. So I knew right away he was stressed at the vet. But I didn't try to explain that because to her my dog put teeth on her, we are done. I ended up finding a different vet with a smaller practice and a less rushed office.

I have changed vets several times. I select a vet based on my dog's needs not convenience or whether I like them or not. Vets know that and accommodate. I would find a new vet that will allow you to bring in your dog when she isn't sick or needing something, to socialize and get to know them. I left one vet who had a high tech turnover rate, so we never knew who we were going to get when we walked in even though I loved the vet. I left another office when I saw they didn't seem to like my dogs very much and made anti GSD jokes when I came in. It was because the dogs made them nervous.

I hate muzzles, absolutely hate putting them on a dog because it's a symbol of my failure and it tells my dogs I can't protect them. But if I needed to use one, I would, for my dog's protection, not theirs. I don't want my dogs to be mishandled because a tech or vet is scared. A muzzle makes my dog safe. I would use a basket muzzle so they can breathe and take treats.


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

It is okay for your dog to growl because the vet tech is wearing glasses????????? Really???? Then you need to make your dog realize that there is a world out there and people will wear glasses, hats, baggy coats, walkers, carry purses, bags, etc and SHE needs to deal with everyday life.
I worked for vets for 35 plus years, was a vet tech before they even had vet techs and like others on here, have many scars from the dog/puppy whose owner said" my doggie won't bite". On my arms, on my face, legs, it happens when a dog is very capable of delivering a bite and the owner says it won't hurt anyone, then teeth connect with flesh. The vet techs job is to help the vet, and do minor things, not worry about a puppy who is barking because she wears glasses.
You need to realize your 48 or 52 or 60 lb puppy is capable of hurting someone. Don't have your blinders on and think it won't happen, because its a good possibility it will at some point if the reason she barks or growls is because someone is wearing glasses or whatever the excuse it. A 7 month old puppy can deliver a horrific bite and just because you don't feel she should have to wear a muzzle, it won't be your body taking the bite. If you don't like the way the vet or vet techs acted, then find a new vet, however you need to realize there is a problem and consider working on fixing it instead of denying it.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

ThroughYska'sEyes said:


> You are correct her Temperament isn't completely there yet. But if you want to go into the temperament of generations before her, Her father was a Panda Shepherd from an American working line with a docile demeanour. Her mother was from Europen show line with a docile, maternal demeanour.
> 
> I also said she would never bite, I said she has not ever bitten. Though she is young, you shouldn't rule out a puppies initial personality to be their final one. Yes they are cuddly love balls at a few months but when they start to get to 5-8 months their personality starts to round its self out.
> 
> ...


 I think my point was, if you had 30+ years of experience with the vet and generations of experience with the breed and with the specific lines, then maybe you could expect them to give you credit for knowing your dog won't need the muzzle. But, personally, I think the vet/vet tech is being responsible to ask for it. Not rude. 

You have a puppy and have some knowledge of the sire and dam, but you can't be certain the pup is not going to bite a tech who might have to do something invasive in the dog's opinion. 

You were wondering if you were wrong to be upset about it. I think you were. I think you are being kind of unreasonable when it comes to expecting other people to give your dog the benefit of the doubt, and put themselves at risk, when it doesn't appear that the owner has control of the dog nor much experience. 

Telling you that the dog is aggressive, well, maybe that crossed a line. I wouldn't know. I did not see how the dog was reacting.


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## MamaofLEO (Aug 8, 2014)

For both Leo and Shane, I ask if they want to muzzle. For Leo, just under 2 years old, we have gone to the vet (with no appt) to check it out, be comfy, walk around, weigh him, get the lay of the land--at both low and high times of the day--and it worked wonders; but add a petite dog with a Napoleon complex sitting right at the entrance at the time of our actual appointment, he barks and tries to get away from small dog. Our vet is such a sweetie (after our other vet moved, she was always our 2nd choice previously) we go straight to a room and I ask if they want to muzzle. They always decline. 

Shane, 14 and cantankerous, is another story. When we visit either of Shane's vets (general practice vet and Shane's dental surgeon vet), he is ALWAYS muzzled (for mouth issues, he can really act out, but they have a special muzzle that allows teeth observation). It has really escalated in the past 2-3 years, barking, hair up, curl lip..the works. And only at the vet. So we show up earlier and they bring us to a room to muzzle up-the vet techs have it down to a science!---and he is fine with it. He gets his nails done, gets groomed and washed at our puppy care place and I am always awed that when I ask if he is muzzled, as Shane is quite the curmudgeon, the man who grooms him (calls him "his best old fellow" and "loves that old pup") chuckles that anyone would have to muzzle Shane. Go figure.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Based on the original post, I would work on how I react to negative incidents/encounters. That's something you have direct control over and remaining calm may translate into Yska doing the same.


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## marbury (Apr 3, 2012)

I work in veterinary neurology and emergency. OP's reaction got my hackles up because it's somewhat common in clients with pets who have less than ideal (but totally understandable!) responses to the stress of a veterinary office. Granted, general practice is a very different environment than specialty, which is vastly different from emergency. Still- sounds like some front-end techs/receptionists were having a bad day and that got the 'vibes' out of whack. It also sounds like your appointment techs got a call from the front end with a warning about either you or your dog (or both!). Yes, we talk. Yes, how you treat your receptionist gets communicated to us in back. And yes, how you treat us is absolutely communicated to your vet. 

I have had the incredible fortune to avoid taking a significant bite in my time but some of my coworkers are not so fortunate. Most bites are avoidable by monitoring your patient and working with them. Sometimes we don't have that luxury (seizing or postical dog, one recovering from anesthesia, a patient making a bid for freedom). Sometimes it's a failure of equipment or failure of skill like a poor restraint, a snapped buckle, or a cone slipping off. But when we don't have time to spend 5-20 minutes developing a relationship with that animal it's often much less stressful to eliminate risk to the extent in which we can. Then the handler (the tech) is calm and, often, so is the dog as a result. The tension is gone even if the less-than-ideal behaviors are not. 

Your dog is young. Plenty of time to go through phases and change. Unless there's something horribly wrong, most puppies are super friendly. At some point that is likely to change as they mature. Once friendly is not always friendly, and German Shepherds are graced with standards as opposed to labs who would happily make friends with anything that may at some point provide food. You can certainly be miffed with the attitude of the techs at your vet, but it may be that you have some work to do with your dog as well. Try and find a hospital that has Low Stress Handling Certification- great indicator as to the overall handling goals of a hospital. But don't be 'that owner'... Realize that you contribute to your dog's experience. Realize that literally hundreds of people have told us 'she wouldn't hurt a fly' and refused a party hat request two minutes before we sent one of our techs to the ER for taking a bite from an obviously tense dog that we knew was a risk. Also understand that the vet field has super high turnover- very physically and mentally demanding for virtually no pay; quite a few general practice techs are pretty green. They may not yet feel comfortable safely restraining a large dog without a muzzle (nor should they have to do so if there is concern for a potential bite).

Ultimately, what's passed is past. Now it's building for the next visit, whether at your current practice or a new one. If you come in next time amped up and ready for confrontation your dog will feel it and escalate. If you come in clear-headed and armed with skills for both you and your dog everything will go much better. Also keep in mind techs and receptionists are simple creatures and respond well to treats. 

Getting friendly with a basket muzzle is a great practice no matter what temperament a dog has. It may be necessary one day and instead of fighting in the worst moment it's so much less stressful to condition in great situations with delicious treats and plenty of praise. It can be a very comforting/secure situation for some dogs. We had a working state patrol dog come through neurology for a spinal fracture and she was civil and proud of it. Sweet as pie, but if we had to do a treatment that was painful she'd snap first and ask questions later and would flail (terrible to do when recovering from spinal stabilization!). She was conditioned to a basket muzzle. Put one on easily and she would switch off. We could do the same treatments that would otherwise cause alligator rolling and snapping and she'd get peanut butter through the bars, happy as a clam. Then off came the muzzle, no harm to either party. A very useful tool. 

There are so many variables at a vet. Control what you can (your emotions, your reactions, your stress, your preparedness), assist where you can (train with your dog, communicate clearly with staff) and above all be honest if you try a new vet. I always appreciate an owner who hands me their leash and says 'Fluffy didn't do well at the last vet, they said she needed a muzzle to draw blood'. The best part is 90% of the time we get by fine without needing a muzzle because then it becomes my goal to give Fluffy a new, positive outcome this time around and keep my coworkers and my doctors safe doing it. If you have a training protocol you're using (like asking techs to ignore your dog or use side-approach etc) let the front desk know what you'd like to have happen and ask if we could help with your training- don't holler at a tech for saying a cheerful hi and making your dog skitter under a chair because they have no idea that there are special circumstances. 

TL,DR: asking to muzzle a dog is not in any way a critique of you as a person, nor is the oft-Ill-received 'your dog is overweight' comment. It is an assessment, the former of which directly affects our lives as providers. If we get bit it could end our careers. It could end our lives in some cases (cat mouths are cesspools). It certainly is no fun. A muzzle or a cone or an extra tech is just a tool- nothing personal, no judgement about you or your dogs lineage or your training accolades or your dreams for that Therapy Dog certification on the horizon. Simply 'we've identified a potential risk, lets minimize it'. Thresholds vary tremendously and finding a different practice may help.


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## stingeragent (Mar 23, 2016)

Jumping in late to the party here. I have a vet I've been going to the last several years for my weenie dog. We got our first shep last week and took her in. The vet was talking to us about her and was just kind of forewarning to be prepared. She said the dog they get bit by most are shep's. I personally on a small level will side with the vet tech on this one for one reason. I used to work for a cable company and would be in numerous customers homes daily, many of whom had dogs. The company policy was to request dogs be crated, but being a dog lover I rarely asked them to do that, and I did frequently hear the whole, my dog wouldn't hurt a fly. That being said, I was bit by more than 1 dog, and a co worker I was training was knocked to the ground and bit, and the owner assured us she was a friendly dog. That being said, I wouldn't object if a vet or a tech asked to put a muzzle on my dog. In the grand scheme of things it's easier to muzzle your dog for an hour than risk a lawsuit if your dog bites someone. I know we all love our dogs and assume the best, but you can honestly never discount instinct. If you dog has never fear bit in the last 10 years, doesn't mean a situation won't make that happen during the 11th year. I'm by no means saying we should all be fearful of our dogs or anything like that, but in all possibility, anything can happen. If you think about it, those techs are just trying to do their job (even if they are doing it poorly), and go home unscathed. I have lived around dogs my whole life, and I would be intimidated if a large dog was barking at me in a small confined exam room.It's easier to convince someone that is skeptical of your dog that they aren't aggressive if the pup is wagging it's tail and trying to lick them. If the same dog is barking and growling at you, it's a little bit harder to convince. Safety in these situations should be the highest priority, even if you know deep down your dog will never bite. The vet tech on the other end doesn't know your dog (unless you've been there a long time with them).


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## Sarah0407 (Oct 5, 2015)

My vet has never mentioned anything to me about Shepherds, they are no different to any other dog that bites. A mini poodle in our area has twice attacked my Shepherd for no reason whatsoever, but you won't hear the vet warning you about them. It's purely the size and the amount of damage a dog can do that makes people see them as a problem breed. I'm far more scared of Jack Russel terriers. However if someone wanted to muzzle my dog, I'd let them but he's never given me reason to think he'd bite anyone.
At the end of the day it's a guard dogs job to protect its territory, so naturally someone entering the house is a threat and to bite them is to do it's job. It's a fine line.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

What do you do with a dog that is vet phobic? Mine hates our vet and won't let them touch him, muzzled or not. He is scared out of his mind when the vet touches him and nothing I have tried helps.


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## Mudypoz (Mar 3, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> What do you do with a dog that is vet phobic? Mine hates our vet and won't let them touch him, muzzled or not. He is scared out of his mind when the vet touches him and nothing I have tried helps.


My Doberman was like that when she came to me as a 1-year-old. We went on almost daily trips to the vet office where we just hung out and chatted for about 30 mins each time. The vets, techs, and office personnel loved it and always would come out to pet her and give her a treat. She very quickly learned to love the place, and still loved going there until she passed away last December at 12 years old.

A little time spent on getting your dog comfortable at the vets can save you a lot of work later.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

We are testing out another office that uses fear free techniques. I have been there a few times to visit and he likes them so far. But the vet came out to meet and play with him and casually tried to touch his rear end, which is where shots happen, and he went kind of nuts. Our old vet had a lot of sick and injured dogs in the back and my dog is very sensitive to fear, so he associates the vet with being grabbed, being hurt, and the smell of fear. He is very sociable he just won't let anyone hold him still or do a procedure. He even hates having his temperature taken and will put his teeth on the tech. That has now transferred to home and he doesn't want me to take his temperature or even get close to him with a thermometer or clippers.


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