# 3 puppies in Mass



## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

Not Sure where to post please move if in wrong area.

I recieved an email from my breeder she is beside herself. She has 3 puppies with Megaesophagus and doesn't have the heart to PTS.
If anyone is isnterested in maybe taking a pup or know someone 
that could handle dealing with one please pm me.

She says they are all happy and thriving if that helps


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Wow, I hope someone around here can find a place for these little babies.


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## JakesDogs (Jun 4, 2008)

Would she agree to let you post maybe a little more info here about the pups? It might enhance the possibilities. ID


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm wonder how sever their cases are because, from what I've been reading on the board lately, there is a pretty wide range... although, I guess it would be hard to tell in puppies. I bet some pictures would help.


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## fourdogsrule (May 10, 2007)

Have her contact Orphan Animals in Michigan and see if they would be interested. Just a back up plan in case there are no bites here.
I hope they can find forever homes. I know someone that has a dog with mega e and she is thriving.
Or maybe she would give you some pics. to post here. Just a thought.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I will ask for pics and info
thanks


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

It's times like this I wish I wasn't a student and had an actual income!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

It kills me


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

I can only imagine...







So, is the big thing with these puppies that they need food that has been made into liquid so they can more easily swallow it? I'm still trying to understand MegaE from the posts that have been up lately.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Another question (sorry if I'm pestering) but has the breeder had the puppies checked for any of the illnesses that go along with MegaE? I found this from a website:

"Since megaesophagus may be associated with many different conditions, the diagnostic work-up should include CBC, biochemical profile, urinalysis and survey thoracic radiographs in all cases."

and was just wondering if it was known if the puppies have any of these illness that are commonly paired with MegaE of if it's only MegaE.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

I'll email her


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

pics of the pups








Female 

male









male









she said she may have homes for 2 not positive yet


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*



> Originally Posted By: JerzeyGSDAnother question (sorry if I'm pestering) but has the breeder had the puppies checked for any of the illnesses that go along with MegaE? I found this from a website:
> 
> "Since megaesophagus may be associated with many different conditions, the diagnostic work-up should include CBC, biochemical profile, urinalysis and survey thoracic radiographs in all cases."
> 
> and was just wondering if it was known if the puppies have any of these illness that are commonly paired with MegaE of if it's only MegaE.


she said just x-rays were done


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

Do they know how bad the megaE is and what kind of special care do they require right now? What did the vet say in terms of the prognosis, same cases are worse than others.


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## JerzeyGSD (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*



> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDDo they know how bad the megaE is and what kind of special care do they require right now? What did the vet say in terms of the prognosis, same cases are worse than others.


I'm wondering the same thing. They're ADORABLE and definitely deserve a home. I feel like if the cases were mild it would be very doable (and more affordable than if the cases were more extreme...)


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

I am not sure 
I'll email her


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

From my Breeder:

Sorry to put you in the middle, you can give them my number, It's easier to tell them in a phone conversation than long email. 
The green male xrayed the worst, but he is happy & playful and is a big boy. He sounds like a bag of water when he runs around I've nick named him Mr. Jiggles. The Lt.Blue's xray was not as bad, but he is starting to sound like Mr. Jiggles, but not as bad. Purple's xray was not as bad as Green's either, she does not sound bad. Not of them do any wrenching when (if) they regurgatate. I have been taking them aside 3 times a day and feeding them fresh goats milk (yes, from a goat farm) with Wellness white fish & sweet potatoe canned food, mix it real well so its very soupy and they lick it our of a bowl. I raise it a bit, sometimes they eat it from floor level. I watch them for about 20-30 min, and all seem to hold it down. Green will sometimes throw up a small amount after he eats. They are all a good weight and love to play.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

I am familiar with the the litter--purple collar girl was supposed to be coming home this weekend and frankly I am agonizing over whether I am able to take her. In talking to the breeder and gathering info, these pups are likely to have congenital ME, which is, if I understand correctly, not associated with the illnesses mentioned, that happens in adult onset Mega-e.

The pups have been seen by the vet, wormed, given immunizations. I saw the pups and they were happy, lovely little guys in a great environment.

The condition requires management and can be managed well by folks who are resourceful and paitent. Sometimes it just means elevating feeing positions with a stool so that the dogs eat and drink at a 45 degree angle. Some dogs need more care, some less and some trial and error is needed to figure out what "goes down the hatch" best.

Mega-e dogs have been known to thrive and become successul at agility, obedience, tracking, etc. They don't *know* that they are not perfect and adapt to feeding and watering techniques.

There are some risks to be managed and that is where I am hesitating. I live in a place surrounded by water and swimming is an intergral part of my and my dogs' lives. It is the single greatest joy in my life (eek, does that sound pathetic???)

Some mega e dogs CAN swim and ingest salt or fresh water and be just fine. Some can not. It would break my heart to have a dog who was unable to join us on our frequent summer outings.

The breeder is heartbroken. The dam of this litter is a lovely sweetheart and the sire is a handsome boy with a great temperament. 

For folks who want lovingly bred and raised puppies who have some special needs, these guys would be great.

Jennifer


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

Well said Jennifer


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

It is true that this breeder will pts if she doesn't find homes? 

And I assume that the neither dog will be bred again?

Also, I am concerned that she is feeding kibble. They would do much better and it would be much safer for them to eat homemade food. Tell her to buy Pitcairn's book http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health/dp/157954973X and use the recipe for puppies who need to gain weight. I pureed it once I finished cooking it.


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## GSD2LADY (Mar 13, 2009)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

Have these pups found homes? I lost my mega-e GSD almost two years ago at 5 years old. It is a manageable condition. It is allot of work but well worth it. My Timber was a wonderful dog. He was a TDI certified therapy dog, titled in obedience, rally and agility. That dog loved everything and everyone. Maybe his life would have been longer had I have know he had mega-e when he was younger. I went to vet after vet after vet and did not find out about his mega-e until he was almost four and losing so much weight and energy. Please don't pts those pups - they can have wonderful close to normal lives.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

I don't think so I am just a middle person
I can send you her number if you want more info


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## GSD2LADY (Mar 13, 2009)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

If you could PM me her number and/or email that would be great. Thanks!


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

Doing it now


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

I think that there is really no need to put these little dolls to sleep.
MegaE dogs show up in rescue and they do find homes. It takes longer than with healthy dogs, but they can be placed. I am hoping the breeder is willing to hold them until the right home shows up. Maybe some area rescues would be willing to crosspost. The right adopter might be easier to find through rescue as people who go to a breeder usually want the perfect puppy.


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## Meb (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

I hope they all find loving homes


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

She doesn't want to, she wants to find a home for all of them


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

Dawn,

The fact that the pups are sounding funny is not good and means a food change needs to be made b/c they are risk for aspiration pneumonia! Can you give her the info I posted about food. That book is easy to find and I just made the recipe and put the food in a food processor and then fed it when it was a slurry consistency. My little foster guy really thrived on it and he's still alive at age 8!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

What are the weights of these pups? I think I remember from Jennifer's other post that one was only around 6lbs at 7 weeks or so? That is very small and would concern me since being undersized and failing to thrive as compared to other (non MegaE) puppies can indicate a more serious problem in terms of long term prognosis. MegaE pups who keep up with the others in growth are the ones with the best long term outcomes.

Also the gurgling sounds are not normal and should be checked out. Lungs need to be listened to as if there is fluid or food getting into the lungs, aspiration pneumonia is likely.


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

I can pm her number if you want 

I am doing what she asked me to
she wants to find them homes 
just the middle person here


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

The boy pups were pretty big guys, their weight was, I think at the time, 10-12 pounds. The little girl is putting on weight well right now, and loving the yummy slurry the breeder is giving them with fresh goat's milk in it. All the pups are running and playing.

There *may* be a rescue who can help one or two of the pups---more on that as I learn, but the breeder and rescue have each other's contact info to work on this possibility, but that is NOT a definate and that may leave at least one pup still needing a loving and skilled home. 

The x-rays, as of earlier this week, were not indicative of pneumonia at that time.

These are great pups, parents have wonderful temperaments.


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## lucymom (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

To go back to answer some of the questions, to my knowledge, which is also second-hand. The dam, a lovely, sweet, very engaging dark sable girl is being spayed. I do not know the plan for the male or what the vet recommended for him.

She does NOT want to PTS these guys and is working hard to meet all their special feeding and watering needs and then carefully observe them afterward for indications of regurge. It can take some trial and error initially to find out what works best for each puppy and she's researching information to best do this.

There is nothing solid in place yet that I'm aware of, so please continue to spread the word. It is a manageable condition but having three at a time is a lot.

I have determined that I can not take purple girl as I live alone and work full time and would be unable to best meet her needs, as well as the swimming issue I mentioned earlier. She would be alone for hours after work and all day Saturdays and Sundays while my other dog was off lounging at the waterside. A Mega-E dog can do very normal, active things, but swimming does present a specific risk and I'm surrounded by water.

J


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## littledmc17 (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

tHANKS jENNIFER


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## LadyHawk (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

dAWN - tHE LAST ONE (all black male) HAS MY HEART STRINGS.... (oops caps) if I could only talk the DH into another................ 
~~~**SIGH**~~~~


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## MaineLady (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: 3 puppies in Mass w/pics*

These pictures break my heart! I feel terrible that this happened to these cuties.....

I did a little research on this condition and this is what I've found.

Here is a ton of info for your friend. from Fred Lanting's studies. Cathy might be interested in it also

Most surgical procedures to correct megaesophagus are not satisfactory. It is a very involved operation, with very low rates of success, and is highly expensive. Some dogs appear to outgrow the disorder, while others show no improvement, and owners must manage their feeding life long. In a review of cases of dogs with megaesophagus with no identifiable cause, owners had 65 percent of them euthanized.

Feeding: it is very helpful to have the dog in an "upright" position, during feeding. There the bowl height is less important than the orientation of the esophagus. A vertical drop, small soft/liquid portions, and not feeding in the evening are good ideas. Feed small, wet/mushy portions throughout the morning and early afternoon, but not in the evening.

A Tufts University bulletin in May, 2003 had a picture that illustrated feeding in a sitting-up position like that a dog uses when taught to sit up and beg. The owner of the case reported on for purposes of illustration made a special chair so the dog could eat in that position, which used gravity to help move food to the stomach. Keeping the dog in a vertical position for 15-30 minutes after each meal was most effective.

(There is a youtube of this chair. Here it is!.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjQtYI3q4lc
*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjQtYI3q4lc*

The disorder usually is detected at or slightly after the commencement of weaning. As food slightly stretches the esophagus on the way down, an affected pup’s muscles apparently fail to contract enough to prevent the food bolus from staying in a pouch just in front of the entrance to the stomach. In time, the muscles become progressively weaker and less able to squeeze the food ball, and even liquid food remains in a hanging pelican pouch forward of and below the stomach entrance. The pup becomes emaciated and listless, often dying of starvation.

The worst cases starve to death by 8-9 weeks, others might have to be euthanized before 7-8 months. These represent the juvenile-onset, inherited type, not the adult-onset acquired type. GSDs, Goldens, and Irish Setters seem most at risk, and if a pup survives to adulthood, the condition often causes or is associated with other esophagus problems, peripheral neuropathies, gastric dilation (bloat) with or without torsion, and especially myasthenia gravis.

Even in adults, many are euthanized because of progressive malnutrition and owner frustration over the regurgitation. Or they asphyxiate (die from lack of air) due to aspiration pneumonia, or vomit obstructing the air passage.

Genetics: in order for puppies to have Mega Espohagus, *both parents* need to be carriers. It is a recessive gene and therefore, unless both parents carry it, it doesn't show up. Fred Lanting tells us that 75% of the pups, on average, will inherit the defective gene;----50% of the offspring would be expected to be carriers but not show symptoms and 25% would have a double dose and therefore clearly show the symptoms. The other 25% would be normal in both phenotype and genotype"

So whatever male was used must also be a carrier of the defective gene and should not be bred again either. Even if the puppies don't show an issue (like the parents) they can be carrying the gene and pass it on.

Chris


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