# I decided :)



## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Hello Folks' been a 8 year+ lurker.

I have a male ghost who is 8 now, and I am so scared of losing him. The fear of losing him and me being alone which is driving me to get him a brother, so that when its time for my baby boy to pass, that I won't do anything stupid -- I am that attached to my dog.

I live in montana, and I have reached out to quite a few folks on twitter/instagram/facebook for advice.

I do have a deposit FORM with Christina from Wendelin shepherds, they seem to be great. I just wish she was a bit more responsive, but I imagine running a farm can be tedious. Just waiting to get the pay-pal link for deposit.

*I was also recommended Woodwolf Kennels and Feurgarten shepherds and Faserglen Kennels, and Henac German Shepherds.*


I am bummed because my first go-around with my three shepherds which I've lost 2/3 before 7 makes me want to do this right the first time.

My first breeder and only breeder who won't be named didn't do her due diligence and lied about papers.

I got three puppies with my ex and I the first go around which was the worst idea ever.

Ember was my first: she was born with base narrow canine, cups disease, hip dysplasia and died of a liver cancer at 7.

Gus which was the litter mate to my boy ghost: was born with three legs and died of congenital heart failure at 5 months old.

Ghost has had "weird" peeing issues where he essentially forgets to pee and then explodes pee everywhere (no doctors or specialist have figured out why) he was also born with no enamel on 5 of his teeth and diagnosed hip dysplasia at two.

Going forward I want a reputable breeder that takes the time to look at pedigree/lineage of the dogs and make pairings that make sense for drive but also health.

What I love about ghost:


He is absolutely, magnificently and undeniably sweet. He TRULY cares about his interactions with people, but most importantly me.
He loves hiking, biking (following), swimming, staying active as much as I do, but when its time to go home he loves to relax or keep himself occupied
He is protective over his home
He gets along very well with other dogs and other creatures

So I would like a great pairing as ghosts new buddy. However, out of the breeders listed, who can deliver a healthy puppy or I guess a track record of a healthy dog.

I would like a male sable that is either working or showline. So who out of the ones Ive selected would be the best bet?
*Wendelin, Woodwolf Kennels and Feurgarten shepherds and Faserglen Kennels, and Henac German Shepherds.*

Thank you

Ghost & Clint


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

You already put down a deposit but this breeder is not the definite decision then?


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

wolfy dog said:


> You already put down a deposit but this breeder is not the definite decision then?


Sorry, I need to re-word that -- I filled out all the information needed, just waiting on the paypal. Wendelin has been recommended by alot of members, but just wanted any additional input to make an informed decision.


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## Apex1 (May 19, 2017)

Just a thought. I adopted a dog from someone who was giving him away. He was just shy of a year old. I got to meet him see what he was all about. I knew right away he was a great dog. It's been about 6 months and he is even better than I thought he would be.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

I know nothing of Woodwolf and Henac.There are multiple members here with dogs from the other three. As far as health you can't go wrong with any of those. The owners past and present all seem to be extremely pleased.The right temperment and energy level for your needs is an important discussion to have with the breeders.Good luck with your search


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

This one.... hands down. 

*Feurgarten shepherds* 

She just posted a female puppy for sale from her male, kennel is Jacob Pope's. Should be a really nice breeding. Many members own her dogs. I've seen a few work and really like them, including hte brother to the sire. and I think she has a litter happening soon too.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

dogma13 said:


> I know nothing of Woodwolf and Henac.There are multiple members here with dogs from the other three. As far as health you can't go wrong with any of those. The owners past and present all seem to be extremely pleased.The right temperment and energy level for your needs is an important discussion to have with the breeders.Good luck with your search


What one would you suggest of the three so far wendelin has been the most recommended so far, any other


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

i wouldn’t hesitate to get a dog from Feurgarten - i feel like they fit many bills.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

What do you like about Wendelin other than the fact other forum members have recommended them? Have you spoken with Christina about what you are looking for and if one of her dog would be a good fit? Have you visited her facility and met her dogs?


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Bramble said:


> What do you like about Wendelin other than the fact other forum members have recommended them? Have you spoken with Christina about what you are looking for and if one of her dog would be a good fit? Have you visited her facility and met her dogs?


I spoke with her for 30 minutes yesterday! Very informative knowledgeable.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

What Bramble said ^^^^.Healthy pups from these kennels are a given.The pups in the individual litters that will be the best fit is always between you and the breeder.


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## Bramble (Oct 23, 2011)

GhostnDemon said:


> I spoke with her for 30 minutes yesterday! Very informative knowledgeable.


That's good. If you feel good about getting a puppy from Wendelin and it checks all your boxes then go for it. 

My personal preference is to buy from a breeder who lives with their dogs vs keeping them kenneled. Since my dogs live with me in my home I like to know that the breeder is also selecting for dogs who can settling in the house and aren't exhibiting behaviors such are barking and/or spinning when crated/kenneled, pacing, or inability to settle unless they are physically exhausted.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Bramble said:


> That's good. If you feel good about getting a puppy from Wendelin and it checks all your boxes then go for it.
> 
> My personal preference is to buy from a breeder who lives with their dogs vs keeping them kenneled. Since my dogs live with me in my home I like to know that the breeder is also selecting for dogs who can settling in the house and aren't exhibiting behaviors such are barking and/or spinning when crated/kenneled, pacing, or inability to settle unless they are physically exhausted.


I talked with her told her what temprement and she gave me the two breedings, then I talked to Ava and her two wendelins it seems itd be a good pairing. based off the daddy Egon


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If you like dogs from each breeder, I would go with the one who is the most responsive amd available to you. If you need something it’s nice to know they will reply when you reach out.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

LuvShepherds said:


> If you like dogs from each breeder, I would go with the one who is the most responsive amd available to you. If you need something it’s nice to know they will reply when you reach out.


The daughter has been helpful. I know shes probably busy with the farm.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

I wouldn't hesitate to get a dog from Wendelin.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

gsdsteve said:


> I wouldn't hesitate to get a dog from Wendelin.


Her daughter has been great, I wish they responded more -- but out of all the breeders only two responded lol


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Im so confused its been a couple days, trying to get in touch with Christina and her daughter… which has been challeging. 

Taylor made got back to me.

Feurergarten has not responded at all.

I seen a lot of people are happy with their wendelin — it’s bothersome she doesn’t respond, but I do want a dog that they actually take time into breeding them.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Decided these two: but can't decide which route to go Wendelin or WoodWolf Kennels

Both of these folks' have been great and recommended by both. Christina definitely has a passion so does woodwolf.

I just want my dog to have the best CHANCE at a HEALTHY life unlike my boy and girl I had from a back-yard breeder.

It is important that the breeder knows the pedigree, lineage, and time invested into their dogs.

I do want a dog that has the get-up-and-go attitude to go hike, bike, swim but can also be intelligent, listen, and want to be with their human and brother (Ghost).

Any suggestions as I am driving myself nuts over this!


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

GhostnDemon said:


> Both of these folks' have been great and recommended by both. Christina definitely has a passion so does woodwolf.
> 
> I just want my dog to have the best CHANCE at a HEALTHY life unlike my boy and girl I had from a back-yard breeder.
> 
> ...


You're driving yourself nuts!!


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

gsdsteve said:


> You're driving yourself nuts!!


Well that is helpful towards what direction to move forward to


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

You started this thread yesterday. Why don't you give people time to respond. This isn't a full time job for most breeders. I don't Alexis has even seen your message yet, depending on the format you sent it.


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## HollandN (Aug 12, 2020)

I wouldn’t pick either Think it would make sense to take time and explore other options


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

I'm with HollandN, I really like the Wendelin dogs I've seen, but for reasons that you're not looking for in an active pet. Too much Czech in the Sires and Dams of both upcoming litters (which I'm assuming is what you're considering). I don't know Woodwolf kennels or dogs personally, but the same holds true. Their upcoming litters are primarily Czech lines. Their dogs look great, just maybe not for a pet.

They can be great dogs, Czech dogs, but IME can be a bit sharper and drivier than most people want in their companion dog...

Aside from healthy, you want a dog you can live with comfortably for both you and the dog. Given your description of Ghost, I'd seriously recommend a pet/WGWL cross, or a pet/WGSL cross.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

You should probably give these people a few days... When I emailed one breeder I assumed she would respond in 1-2 weeks. What Jax08 said is right. Most breeders have a full time job, train their dogs and breed them too. It's super easy to get excited and time feels like it's going slow. I would chill out and find a series to binge watch.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

So apologize for numerous threads.

Both christina and Melinda know about my dogs bad history.

So you’re all aware my three shepherds from a breeder I will never mention but my three dogs had the following:

Ember: base narrow canine, severe overbite, lost both canines, lupus, hip dysplasia and cups disease diagnosed at 2. She died at seven three months ago.

Gus which is my boy ghosts litter mate: died at four months old, congenital heart failure plus born with 3 legs

Ghost: my angel and my boy ,will make it to 8 this year ❤ He was born without his enamel on his teeth and hip dysplasia.

So this was where my anxiety of doing my homework will yield a healthier dog.

Both of them based off my need of a medium working line both that can do sport work but also chill out have been decided which paring.

Wendelin: Hakova and Egon
Weberhaus: zzTop and Gracie

I read over 35 threads and over 200 pages of varying opinions and these two were constantly messaged.

I just want to decide right this time so my pups have the life they deserve.
I would appreciate any sincere feedback in which route to go.

Both the gals I talked to were amazing, positive, helpful and intuitive. I trust both of them.


Thank you, a very nervous clint


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

Topics merged. All related. Same audience.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Alexis is on my personal list of breeders to consider and programs to watch.


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## Hexenrudel (Feb 26, 2018)

GhostnDemon said:


> Hello Folks' been a 8 year+ lurker.
> 
> I have a male ghost who is 8 now, and I am so scared of losing him. The fear of losing him and me being alone which is driving me to get him a brother, so that when its time for my baby boy to pass, that I won't do anything stupid -- I am that attached to my dog.
> 
> ...


It's not normal for a dog to die of liver cancer at 7. My oldest GSD here is turning 15 years old in 2 months and is on no medication at all. Remarkably healthy for his age. I also have an 8 year-old and she's acting like a 3 year old. Cancer at such a young age, I would look at what has been innapropriate in your dog's diet, environment or the medications she's had.

In regards to hip dysplasia, if I was to get a puppy, I would make sure the parents have both hips and elbows certifications (I would ask for proof!) and I would also look at the littermates hips and elbows results of these dogs and same for the second generation.

I'm going to say this. Take the time to educate yourself more so that YOU know why you're getting a puppy from a specific litter. If you constantly have to rely on other people's opinions, you did not do your homework and will get very random results.

Sincerely,
Myriam
www.hexenrudel.com


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

GhostnDemon said:


> So apologize for numerous threads.
> 
> Both christina and Melinda know about my dogs bad history.
> 
> ...


Just curious if either suggested you get a female since you have a male?


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Fodder said:


> Topics merged. All related. Same audience.


thank you


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Bearshandler said:


> Alexis is on my personal list of breeders to consider and programs to watch.


Who is alexis?


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

gsdsteve said:


> Just curious if either suggested you get a female since you have a male?


None that I have talked to so far


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Bearshandler said:


> Alexis is on my personal list of breeders to consider and programs to watch.


Ive contacted her 3-4 times without any response I'll try again.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Wendelin has been very helpful to me, Christina isnt the best at getting back but when she does you can see she really cares.
Melinda and I have texted back and fourth, I've heard good about her.
Alexis I've messed for the past 4 days, Im sure she is really busy! 

Ultimately it seems like all three would be a great choice but I want to make the right choice, which is hard -- how do we ever know? If I could be to a certain degree of certainty like 90% that would make me happy becuase no one really ever knows.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Decided on two males (after talking to many breeders) last advice before I decide today!

I have spoken with Christina (Wendelin), Malinda (Weberhaus), Maris (Bauerhof), and MelloDee (GermelHaus)

All have been lovely, but I got the best vibes from

1.) Maris (Bauerhof) SG-XS Vom Ottilienstein and V Knox Vom EisernenKreuz
2.) Mellodee (GremelHaus) Lucian Von Huerta Hof TKN and Yoni Vom Germelhaus

They both have 9 week old sable males medium-high drive. Both are what I'm looking for, but I can't determine between these two what is the best way to go?

These two breeders felt very knowledgeable to me, respectful, answered all of my questions to the enth degree. Maris definitely took the most time with me


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Whichever breeder has the dogs live in the house or an environment other than a kennel and actually trains/titles her own dogs


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

ausdland said:


> Whichever breeder has the dogs live in the house or an environment other than a kennel and actually trains/titles her own dogs


That’s mellodee


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## Buckelke (Sep 4, 2019)

waiting anxiously for pictures.....


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

I am thinking I’m leading more towards Mellodee with her OFA/2 year guarantee / embark


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

GhostnDemon said:


> I am thinking I’m leading more towards Mellodee with her OFA/2 year guarantee / embark


What happens if your dog would have bad hips/elbows before the two year guarantee period is up? Does the breeder give you your money back, or does she trade your old dog back in for a new pup? That's a question you might want to ask. I don't see it in the thread, so I hope it's not a repeat question. A lot of so called "guarantees" are meaningless for pups, since most people bond pretty closely with their dogs, and would never give their sick dog back to a breeder for another pup (which might also have the same issues). Breeders often bank on that, so unless they are guaranteeing your full refund, and to also allow you to keep the dog, is it really a guarantee? I don't know the breeders you list, but wanted to throw that out there in the ether.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Rionel said:


> What happens if your dog would have bad hips/elbows before the two year guarantee period is up? Does the breeder give you your money back, or does she trade your old dog back in for a new pup? That's a question you might want to ask. I don't see it in the thread, so I hope it's not a repeat question. A lot of so called "guarantees" are meaningless for pups, since most people bond pretty closely with their dogs, and would never give their sick dog back to a breeder for another pup (which might also have the same issues). Breeders often bank on that, so unless they are guaranteeing your full refund, and to also allow you to keep the dog, is it really a guarantee? I don't know the breeders you list, but wanted to throw that out there in the ether.


I think for OP, the health guarantee is more of a security thing rather than looking forward to swapping his dog out.


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

Hopps said:


> I think for OP, the health guarantee is more of a security thing rather than looking forward to swapping his dog out.


That's the point. That's the guarantee that a lot of breeders will offer - "give me your sick dog back and I'll give you another pup". They know that owners aren't apt to part with a dog they've grown close to, so they won't actually have to perform any kind of guarantee. It's a hollow type of security. Either a breeder will refund your money, or it's not a guarantee. It's more of that fuzzy marketing we see. Not sure I said an owner looks forward to swapping a dog back anyway.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Rionel said:


> That's the point. That's the guarantee that a lot of breeders will offer - "give me your sick dog back and I'll give you another pup". They know that owners aren't apt to part with a dog they've grown close to, so they won't actually have to perform any kind of guarantee. It's a hollow type of security. Either a breeder will refund your money, or it's not a guarantee. It's more of that fuzzy marketing we see. Not sure I said an owner looks forward to swapping a dog back anyway.


Yes and I'm saying that OP has no intentions of actually returning a dog. They're just seeing it as reassurance for their own personal insecurity rather than actively shopping for a breeder with a health guarantee. I believe they mentioned in one of their threads that they had a bunch of puppies that died fairly young. They're definitely more worried about the health of the dog rather than the guarantee. 

And you're right, you did not say the owner is wanting to swap dogs. I brought it up as them not really caring about it regardless. 

I really hope OP ends up with a nice healthy pup to help them get through all the heartache they've been facing!


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## Rionel (Jun 17, 2020)

If your look at post #5, the OP mentions that as the reason to go with that particular breeder. That's all I was pointing out because there are some really good people who breed and DO refund money in severe situations. I'm just encouraging people to ask questions up front, because the guarantee is usually presented as part of the justification of higher prices. The answer is always "no" if the buyer doesn't ask : )


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Rionel said:


> If your look at post #5, the OP mentions that as the reason to go with that particular breeder. That's all I was pointing out because there are some really good people who breed and DO refund money in severe situations. I'm just encouraging people to ask questions up front, because the guarantee is usually presented as part of the justification of higher prices. The answer is always "no" if the buyer doesn't ask : )


My brain is probably scrambled from reading the two other threads and reading about if skunk pee is dangerous since Fern decided to pick up a stick soaked in skunk and pee 

Your point is great too, I was definitely honed in on something else lol! Good for future readers


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

To Rionel's point....

So guarantees are just feel good pieces of paper that Americans seem to demand. I know one breeder that will give you half your money back if the dog has HD. That's useful. Or some might require you to neuter/spay the dog and then replace when you are ready. That's useful. But if the contract says "return the dog". it's a worthless piece of paper.

I immediately toss out any that requires you to feed some supplement or the contract of void. 

I give zero cares about a guarantee. If my dog ends up with a genetic disease then...
1. I'm not giving my dog back
2. I don't want another from those lines.

A buyer needs to decide if a specific contract is something that will actually protect them. If they aren't going to use it ever, as in what I just posted above, then it's not worth it.

A buyer needs to do their due diligence and look at the OFA database or the SV database if they know someone with an account. Look at the parents, the parents siblings, the progeny, look at the whole line. The chances of having an issue with dysplasia in a line that has very few cases is pretty small. These are living, breathing, creatures and sometimes crap goes wrong even when the breeder does everything right.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Rionel said:


> What happens if your dog would have bad hips/elbows before the two year guarantee period is up? Does the breeder give you your money back, or does she trade your old dog back in for a new pup? That's a question you might want to ask. I don't see it in the thread, so I hope it's not a repeat question. A lot of so called "guarantees" are meaningless for pups, since most people bond pretty closely with their dogs, and would never give their sick dog back to a breeder for another pup (which might also have the same issues). Breeders often bank on that, so unless they are guaranteeing your full refund, and to also allow you to keep the dog, is it really a guarantee? I don't know the breeders you list, but wanted to throw that out there in the ether.


I agree — most have been, keep pup get another dog free of charge from similar litter. I haven’t found one that offers a refund yet


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

GhostnDemon said:


> I agree — most have been, keep pup get another dog free of charge from similar litter. I haven’t found one that offers a refund yet


Avi Cohen offers a full refund.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Bearshandler said:


> Avi Cohen offers a full refund.


I can’t find any information about him or kennel other than YouTube videos talking about the dog


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Bearshandler said:


> Avi Cohen offers a full refund.


Avi is a stand up guy.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

Jax08 said:


> Avi is a stand up guy.


Where’s his website or Facebook for info


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

The pups will be born April 5th. I selected a breeder I felt most comfortable with, and what my goals are. Most importantly this breeder took the time to send me over all pedigree, embark, SV, and other requested documents. She does 1-3 breedings an entire year. I’ve reached out to the majority of her dogs, and they all have been impressed with her ability of pairing, sound dogs, and good temperaments. I was able to speak freely with her, candidly and she made me feel confident about her versus annoying her or just another customer. Her puppy question aide was lengthy and oferwall we talked 4,5 hours today. She even took time as a dog trainer to get my current male and the new boy when he arrives set up for success. Her dogs live with her inside and not kennel dogs.

so thank you for all the support and feedback I can’t wait to post photos when he arrives.

bis name will be demon .)


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

And who is the breeder?


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

A suggestion for the future: having 8 different threads about the same topic is confusing and counterproductive as the original threads, with pertinent information, fall off the new posts list. Try and keep to one thread concerning a particular topic.


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## GhostnDemon (11 mo ago)

David Winners said:


> A suggestion for the future: having 8 different threads about the same topic is confusing and counterproductive as the original threads, with pertinent information, fall off the new posts list. Try and keep to one thread concerning a particular topic.


Thanks for your winning personality David winners


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## BigOzzy2018 (Jan 27, 2018)

Congratulations I hope the pup is everything you are looking for and have the resources for a great foundation.


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## Hopps (Dec 5, 2021)

Congrats! I'm glad you were able to make a decision. Like Sunflower asked, who's the breeder!? Very excited for you, hope the little pup is everything you wanted.


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