# Not Grooming Certain Breeds



## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

My friend who's a groomer was telling that she won't take certain breeds because she doesn't like them. Do any groomers up here have this policy or if you were a groomer would you have it? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the policy because it's her shop, I just don't quite understand why someone would be a dog groomer if they had a hangup with certain breeds of dogs.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

The groomer who works at the vet office with me only works there Tues, Wed, and Friday. On Mon and Thurs, she works at a shop. At the office she has to take any breed simply because we're a vet. But when she works at the shop she refuses:

Chows
Chow Mixes
Goldendoodles
Labradoodles
Bichon Frise

She has her reservations not because she hates the breeds, but because 9 out of 10 dogs that come in are insane. They bite, spazz out, scream when you touch their feet, etc. So she just no longer deals with them if she's at the shop.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

If I was a dog groomer, and I was afraid of a specific dog breed, like an Akita or a Cane Corso, it would be much better for me to not accept them, then to try and work on them and possibly have a serious accident. I mean, I think we have all seen people try to bravely pet our dogs when they are scared of them. They offer a hand and then jerk it back because they are scared. And the dog is a lot more likely to bite a fearful person. 

And, if I was a dog groomer for a number of years, but do not have the proper equipment to lift large dogs, 200 pound dogs, I think I would probably put a restriction on dogs above a certain weight. Groomers, especially if they have their own shop, may not have decent health insurance, and getting a serious injury might cause you to lose time and clients as well as pain and suffering. So I can understand it.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

I take most dogs under 50 pounds and a few reasonably well behaved larger dogs, but nothing larger than 90 pounds. I work by myself and I'm not getting any younger!

And yes, I do have breed bias. I don't take chows and take very few lhasas. Cocker Spaniels aren't my favorites. If every appointment is a "reclamation project" and the owner doesn't want to schedule more regularly or do maintenance at home then I charge a lot. I don't have to give an appointment to everyone who wants one....that's one of the perks of being self-employed!


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

I guess I have a lot of rules after grooming for over 35 years. 

I'm so swamped that I haven't taken any new clients in well over 6 months. But when I _do_ take new dogs again, there'll be no bichons or cockers booked. I've about had it with those two breeds. Of course, my attitude might have something to do with every bichon and cocker that I groom is at least 13 years old. Some days I feel like I'm a geriatric specialist.

And no more "doodles". 

No more big dogs period. When the existing ones die off, then I'm just doing small dogs. Right now I'm down to one Boxer, one Standard Poodle, 2 big labradoodles.

And I don't do biting dogs. I'll muzzle a snarky schnauzer over toenails, but that's it. 

If I had my way, apparently I'd only be doing super easy dogs that were never matted. And no fat dogs.

Okay, I'll stop.


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

dogfaeries said:


> I guess I have a lot of rules after grooming for over 35 years.
> 
> I'm so swamped that I haven't taken any new clients in well over 6 months. But when I _do_ take new dogs again, there'll be no bichons or cockers booked. I've about had it with those two breeds. Of course, my attitude might have something to do with every bichon and cocker that I groom is at least 13 years old. Some days I feel like I'm a geriatric specialist.
> 
> ...


Don't stop, you are right on the money! Some breeds are not worth the money unless you charge outrageously. 

I can't stand Bouviers and Old English Sheepdogs. Nasty temperaments with owners who usually don't care for them properly. Don't cry because I have to shave the extremely matted coat of your OES and tell me how much you hate him shaved...the dog has maggots lady due to gross neglect. Oh your bouvier has been kicked out of 6 groom shops for biting and you can't brush him or he bites you? Yeah guess what, I'm not interested either. 

I will take on certain breeds depending on the owner attitude but its case by case. Standard poodles, afghans, and any type of large poodle mix (I refuse to give mutts stupid, cutesy names like they are a breed) get accepted with restrictions and rules. You want it long, I either see it every other week or you brush it religiously. I will only demat "areas", not entire dogs. Its cruel to the dogs and not their fault. If they don't brush the dog and its one giant mat ball, they can cry all they want, its getting shaved. Maybe next time they'll remember how traumatized they were seeing the naked dog and they will brush it regularly. Don't like it, find another groomer.

Strangely enough, I have always had a knack with chows and cats. Other groomers happily send them to me.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Ronda said:


> (I refuse to give mutts stupid, cutesy names like they are a breed)



hehehehe I talked to a new client on the phone yesterday and she got a little miffed that when she said her dog was a "shorkie" I was thinkng Schnauzer x Yorkie. No, it's a shih tzu x yorkie, YUCK. 

Guess that's better than my response the last time someone called about getting their DORKIE groomed. Yes really.....you can use your imagination on that one.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I've never understood why people get high maintanence breeds of dogs,but don't want to keep up with the in between maintanence. This is a major complaint with my friend who has several Standard Poodles who come in always matted,but the owners don't want them shaved because the long coat 'looks pretty and they always complain about the higher price. 


Ronda said:


> I can't stand Bouviers and Old English Sheepdogs. Nasty temperaments with owners who usually don't care for them properly. Don't cry because I have to shave the extremely matted coat of your OES and tell me how much you hate him shaved...the dog has maggots lady due to gross neglect. Oh your bouvier has been kicked out of 6 groom shops for biting and you can't brush him or he bites you? Yeah guess what, I'm not interested either.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

I don't groom Chows or wolfdogs. Chows are reliable biters, and I saw enough of them when I worked in the veterinary hosptial to know I don't ever want to lay a hand on one.

I'm sure there are exceptions, there must be nice Chows out there. Every single Chow owner I talk to say THEIR dog is the exception, but I'm not falling for it. 


I've had fairly good luck with Chow crosses, so I won't automatically turn them away. They are accepted on a case-by-case basis.

With wolfdogs, there is no approved rabies vaccine for them. So if I am bitten by a wolfdog, I must legally proceed as though the dog were not vaccinated. That means the dog has to be quarantined and I have to go through rabies prophylaxis, if what I hear is correct. I just don't ever want to deal with something like that if I can avoid it.


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## Powell (Oct 13, 2006)

Um, freestep the rabies thing for wolfdogs is just politics. It works. Now that said, if you want to be technically correct, the only dog the vaccine is approve for is a a Beagle. That's right, the vaccine was tested on 7 beagles. IF I were to be working with dogs full time, I would get the pre exposure rabies vaccine for humans. It's 3 shots, and not that inexpensive, but it's better than post exposure.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

GsdLoverr729 said:


> The groomer who works at the vet office with me only works there Tues, Wed, and Friday. On Mon and Thurs, she works at a shop. At the office she has to take any breed simply because we're a vet. But when she works at the shop she refuses:
> 
> Chows
> Chow Mixes
> ...



I can understand Chows, but I'm a little surprised at the rest on the list.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

So if a muzzle can be used during dematting, why not just take all dogs?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Powell said:


> Um, freestep the rabies thing for wolfdogs is just politics. It works.


Politics or not, I don't care to deal with the legal fallout.

And I'm not going to pay for rabies prophylaxis just so I can groom a dog I don't want to groom anyway. It's very expensive and I don't think my health insurance covers it. If I were working in a veterinary hospital, AC or shelter, I would probably have it done, but as a groomer it's just not necessary.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

llombardo said:


> So if a muzzle can be used during dematting, why not just take all dogs?


A dog can do a lot of damage even with a muzzle on, and muzzles are not foolproof. Often times a very determined dog can remove a muzzle, and then where are you? Plus that, you have to take the muzzle on and off to groom around the face, head and neck.

I have no problem muzzling a dog for toenails or what have you, but if it's a dog that wants to kill me right from the get-go, I'm too old and I can't risk getting hurt. If I get hurt and can't work, I don't get paid.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

freestep is right. It's similar to giving your own rabies vaccine. yes, the dog would be just as vaccinated as having the vet give the shot, but legally the dog will be impounded. 
If a wolf-dog was to bite someone, there is a chance that they could oder it killed to check for rabies the same as they would a wild animal.


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## GsdLoverr729 (Jun 20, 2010)

llombardo said:


> I can understand Chows, but I'm a little surprised at the rest on the list.


 I was surprised at first. But honestly, the dogs on that list along with dachshunds and bassets are the worst behaved at the office period. Most are insaneee! 
And of the Goldens that come in, only the overweight ones (and my boss's young female), behave well. The leaner ones we have come in tend to be on the psycho side. I suppose, though, that it is because it's a veterinary office. 
The dobes, pits, rotties, shepherds, etc. that come in are all very well-behaved and trained. CRAZY!


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

llombardo said:


> So if a muzzle can be used during dematting, why not just take all dogs?


There has already been mention of muzzle-failure......

It's not just the biting, or threat of biting....it's the whole stressful experience of working on a dog that doesn't want to be groomed. They kick they fuss they SCREAM....they pee and poop, and express their anals. They don't stand still. Can you imagine what your own haircut would look like if you constantly moved your head in unpredictable ways? Yet some people think we have a magic wand we can take out and make the mats disappear. OK I tell them yes I have a magic wand, it's called a CLIPPER! 

I only do dematting in special situations. It is EXTREMELY hard on your hands, wrists, elbows, and back. After a big dematting session my thumbs wrists and elbows BURN. It is also extremely hard on the dogs! Plus the hair is never the same afterward....think very split ends. Now imagine you spend extra time and muscle on a reclamation project...you make the dog look wonderful, then you don't see them again for 5 or 6 months, or longer, and when you DO see them again the hair is as bad or worse than the last time, and the dog is more wary of the process.

Here's an example....I only do this because I LIKE the dog and she has learned to go with the groom: 




















Why would anyone choose to have the dog look like the "before" pic most of the time? beats me.....


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

You did a great job on that dog-looks like a sweet dog too


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Thanks! 

Every 4-6 months it's the same thing....I can't tell when I put her on the table if she's dreading the groom, or if she's just miserable about being such a mess, or both. Sometimes I find twigs and stuff in her hair. Sometimes hard candy or gum. Some times her ears are starting to mat to her neck. I give up on the owners, they're hopeless.

BUT she is always smiling by the time we are done, I guess she feels good!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

DunRingill said:


> It's not just the biting, or threat of biting....it's the whole stressful experience of working on a dog that doesn't want to be groomed. They kick they fuss they SCREAM....they pee and poop, and express their anals. They don't stand still.


Yeah, biting isn't even the biggest of my concerns with a dog that doesn't want to be groomed. The thrashing, the screaming, the pooping, the going limp on the table and refusing to stand... I've paid my dues with those kind of dogs and I'm too dang old to get into a wrestling match with a Chow.



> I only do dematting in special situations. It is EXTREMELY hard on your hands, wrists, elbows, and back. After a big dematting session my thumbs wrists and elbows BURN. It is also extremely hard on the dogs!


Same here. If the dog tolerates it, I'll do spot-dematting, but that's about it. Though I have to say, I did a Schnauzer mix recently that allowed me to demat his entire body, without a blink of his eye. But that was an unusual case. Most dogs do not appreciate having tangles combed out of their hair, as you might imagine.



> Why would anyone choose to have the dog look like the "before" pic most of the time? beats me.....


Yeah, I can't figure it out either. These people "love" their little dogs to death and yet fail to notice that the dog can't poo because there is hair matted over its anus. Just figured the dog must be due for grooming because she's starting to smell bad...  it boggles my mind. I could post some pretty dramatic before-and-afters myself! Don't get us groomers started!!


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

As a pet trainer I don't waste my time with Shar-peis. And the very one reason I've never became a groomer is because I dislike most of the yappy fluffy breeds that require grooming often.

I've refused owners (not based on breed, LOL). When I'm doing the evaluation I'm very clear that if after 4 classes I see no improvement between classes and proof they have been working on their own, I'll stop working with them.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Catu said:


> As a pet trainer I don't waste my time with Shar-peis. And the very one reason I've never became a groomer is because I dislike most of the yappy fluffy breeds that require grooming often.
> 
> I've refused owners (not based on breed, LOL). When I'm doing the evaluation I'm very clear that if after 4 classes I see no improvement between classes and proof they have been working on their own, I'll stop working with them.


Where's the "LIKE" button?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

If I may hijack this thread for a minute, maybe some of the groomers here can give me some advice on the best cut for my dog Coke? He is possible a Chow or Shar Pei mix (the entire inside of his mouth and tongue is purple) but he seems to do great a the groomers, at least they all dote on him and send us promo cards inviting him back. He's NOT aggressive at all, has never needed a muzzle (he can be a softy but will just go into avoidance rather than fight). Last time he went I was worried what they would think of me because he was in bad shape. He had at least three hotspots. We had yet another hot (90-100), very humid summer and when we are on vacation there is no AC anywhere (not that we use it at home either). I only let him swim *once* the whole two weeks and he still had hotspots and itchies all over. I said enough and told DH to bring him to the groomer's and get a "lion" shave. I figured I would pay about the same going to a vet and just getting the spots cleaned as I would going to a pro groomer and getting the whole area shaved. They did exactly as I asked despite it being kind of a drastic cut and Coke not being any identifiable breed with a "standard" cut, but Coke seemed very happy to have some air on his skin, though he looked ridiculous. It kind of grew on me and I'll probably go with this cut from now on May-Sept. Once his coat was gone his hotspots dried up overnight and he didn't get anymore since then. He has a coat like putting a Malamute or Chow underneath a long coat GSD. His undercoat is so thick it stands up straight off his body. He's only 65lbs but looks like a bear (he's bigger than my GSDs) - all coat! I'm hoping to get the tools I need to groom him myself for Christmas. I normally do his ears, feathering, and pants/sani-trim myself with the scissors I use on my own hair and thinning shears, but I've asked for a good clippers so I can do the shave. This fall I won a dog dryer in a raffle so now I can blow him out more regularly and hopefully keep the moisture off his skin.

The day of the cut, you can see the worst of his hotspots at the time


















A few days later


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

This thread makes me kinda sad. I know I am the kind of person who is scatter brained and would very likely forget to get her dog groomed on a regular basis (not like what's pictured. I would NEVER let a dog have those kind of problems because that has to be painful. More like I would have a very shaggy looking dog. Think instead of getting groomed when they're supposed to, possibly going over by a week or so.) so I didn't go for a breed that I would have to get clipped on a regular basis. At one point I almost took in a toy/miniature poodle, but that was only because she was my grandma's dog and I knew my grandma wouldn't want her to go to the pound. Luckily a family member took her, so I didn't have to, but I would have taken her to get groomed because that's just what you do when you have a dog like that. Why in the world would you get a dog and then just neglect it like that??? Some of you groomers are saying that you only see these dogs every 4-6 months...aren't you supposed to get dogs like those groomed every 6 weeks or so? Ridiculous.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

Liesje said:


> A few days later


I like his haircut.....he looks very handsome, and quite pleased with himself!


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## Ronda (Aug 23, 2010)

Liesje said:


> If I may hijack this thread for a minute, maybe some of the groomers here can give me some advice on the best cut for my dog Coke? He is possible a Chow or Shar Pei mix (the entire inside of his mouth and tongue is purple) but he seems to do great a the groomers, at least they all dote on him and send us promo cards inviting him back. He's NOT aggressive at all, has never needed a muzzle (he can be a softy but will just go into avoidance rather than fight). Last time he went I was worried what they would think of me because he was in bad shape. He had at least three hotspots. We had yet another hot (90-100), very humid summer and when we are on vacation there is no AC anywhere (not that we use it at home either). I only let him swim *once* the whole two weeks and he still had hotspots and itchies all over. I said enough and told DH to bring him to the groomer's and get a "lion" shave. I figured I would pay about the same going to a vet and just getting the spots cleaned as I would going to a pro groomer and getting the whole area shaved. They did exactly as I asked despite it being kind of a drastic cut and Coke not being any identifiable breed with a "standard" cut, but Coke seemed very happy
> 
> I'm hoping to get the tools I need to groom him myself for Christmas. I normally do his ears, feathering, and pants/sani-trim myself with the scissors I use on my own hair and thinning shears, but I've asked for a good clippers so I can do the shave.


Coke is adorable. 

For clippers, I personally love the Andis brand. I have tried Oster and Laube and just didn't like them as much so I always go back to my Andis' clippers. I have the Ultras but I think these would do a good job for you and coke Wholesale Pet & Grooming Supplies - Ryan's Pet Supplies - Andis 2-Speed AGC Clipper w/ #10 Blade
They come with a #10 blade that will be helpful for sanitary trims and knots behind ears. Its pretty short for an all over look.

For the body I would probably go with a #7F blade, it will get under the thickest part of the undercoat and will leave the hair approximately 1/8 of an inch long...short but not where you should see skin Wholesale Pet & Grooming Supplies - Ryan's Pet Supplies - Andis UltraEdge Blade (#7F) Full Tooth 1/8" Cut

For a slightly longer, more plush clip you could try the next longest blade, a #5F which leaves the hair a 1/4 of an inch long or a #4F which leaves it 3/8 of an inch long. These may be a little harder to get through his coat if it is really thick but you could use them if you really want to. I think the #7F will give you a smoother look though.

You will need straight shears (sounds like you already have these) to scissor the long hair on the backs of his front legs and tip his tail up so it looks neat and nice.

If you want to take a little more coat off, you can also move the clip up a little higher and follow the natural ruff he has...you can see it in the pics, it would come down to right where his brown starts in front of his front legs. It will not be a "true" lion clip but I have clients that prefer that, especially since some dogs will get hot spots in the arm pit area.

Forgot to add, with a really thick coat, sometimes I like to clip in "reverse". With dogs you normally shave in the direction the hair grows but you can get a really nice clip on some dogs by shaving against the grain...it will leave them shorter than the regular length of the blade so go up to a #5F if you do this. It looks especially nice on dogs/cats that are getting a "mane" of any kind left as you can shave backwards up to where the natural ruff ends and when the hair falls back into place you don't see the exact line you stopped shaving at.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I am glad I am not the only one who has trouble with the ------doodles. In my training experiences I have not met a normal behaving ----doodle.
Poodles are OK, but when you hybridize them with other breeds you get something crazy.
Don't have a clue. I am waiting to meet a good exception. Anyone can counter this?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Liesje said:


> He has a coat like putting a Malamute or Chow underneath a long coat GSD.


If this is the case, I would NOT try to clip him at home. That type of hair is insanely difficult and tedious to work with even for a professional groomer with all of our tools and equipment; I can't imagine trying to deal with it at home. If you can just keep him brushed out really well, to the best of your ability, and have the groomer handle his clip, I think that would be the best solution--the time and effort that would be required for you to clip him at home would be prohibitive, and he still wouldn't look as good as does from the groomers', unless you have a bathing system, a powerful force dryer, and a professional set of tools, clippers and blades.

I think the haircut he has looks good on him! When I do a "lion" type clip on dogs, I usually just leave a ruff around the neck, down to the shoulders, rather than leaving the hair all the way back over the ribs. That's simply a personal thing. We have hot summers here too, so I clip a lot of Coke-type dogs short like that.



wolfy dog said:


> Poodles are OK, but when you hybridize them with other breeds you get something crazy.
> Don't have a clue. I am waiting to meet a good exception. Anyone can counter this?


There is some weird, evil genetic synergy that happens when you cross Poodles with other breeds. I don't know why, but it seems to bring out the worst of both breeds, no matter what it is.

I have a few nice 'doodles, but most of them are just plain crazy. Happy and friendly and goofy and waaaaay too much energy, and the owners aren't usually the type to do much training with their dogs, so they are often spoiled brats as well. There are exceptions; I can think of one Labradoodle, a 5 or 6 year old female, who is calm, cooperative and obedient. This family owns two other 'doodles, and those two are nutty as fruitcakes.

On the plus side, I haven't yet met a mean one.


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## SueDoNimm (Jul 3, 2012)

Freestep said:


> There is some weird, evil genetic synergy that happens when you cross Poodles with other breeds. I don't know why, but it seems to bring out the worst of both breeds, no matter what it is.
> 
> I have a few nice 'doodles, but most of them are just plain crazy. Happy and friendly and goofy and waaaaay too much energy, and the owners aren't usually the type to do much training with their dogs, so they are often spoiled brats as well. There are exceptions; I can think of one Labradoodle, a 5 or 6 year old female, who is calm, cooperative and obedient. This family owns two other 'doodles, and those two are nutty as fruitcakes.
> 
> On the plus side, I haven't yet met a mean one.


There was a black Labradoodle in our obedience class and that dog was so weird. She really stood out from the other dogs because her behavior was just different. She was stubborn and showed that she had no interest in doing what was asked of her and her body language consistently showed she wanted nothing to do with the class. She would walk around with her tail all tucked up underneath her and of course we couldn't see her face because of all the fluff. She was also very, very slow to react and even though you got the idea that she knew what to do, she just wouldn't out of stubbornness. 

I didn't like those doodle dogs before and she certainly didn't change my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## GrammaD (Jan 1, 2012)

Think about the quality of the dogs being thrown together to make "doodles" and you have your answer. Well bred poodles and labs/goldens are not being used. Any BYB dog is likely to have a wide nutter streak running through it.

Personally I loathe them. Bad temperaments, really odd physiques, and funky hair coats.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

One trainer told me it is partly the combining the prey drive of the Standard Poodle, with the size of a Lab/Golden and their drives not really matching up. At that moment, I was trying to stay away from one in Bella's obedience class so never asked any follow up questions. That dog was a real nasty actor. I think I've met one nice one though!

I always make sure to tell groomers about my Chow mixes - they always want to see how they do and I don't blame them. There is a groomer who shows Chows and she is the "Chow Groomer" because everyone else does refuse them.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

I've only met one Labradoodle and he has an amazing temperment. The lady who got him really did her research and made sure she was purchasing from a reputable breeder,not just someone who wanted to get in on the doodle fad.


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## gmcwife1 (Apr 5, 2012)

Great thread  Thank you groomers for reminding me I have to make our groomer a Christmas card!

We are lucky that she grooms both our Samoyed's and now loves our GSD


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