# Underweight GSD



## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

I have an underweight GSD, to be short and to the point. She is just over 2 yrs old and weighs about 52-55 lbs. Her ribs and spine stick out just a little more than comfortable with. I understand that a slight showing of ribs is ok, but this is beyond that. The vet only suggested switching her over to puppy food and adding Linoleic Fatty Acid, via Linatone Shed Relief, but that hasnt helped over the last 3-4 months.

She is currently eating 3.25 cups a night of Royal Canin GSD Puppy Food. Adding any more food and she has leftovers, so adding food for her is out of the question. I started giving her a cup in the morning and keeping her food the same at night and it still had no effect.

I was looking into Blue Wilderness Natural diet but I'm iffy on giving it to her. I am trying to find a food source she will enjoy with a slightly higher crude fat percentage and hope that adds on size. I'd like her to gain about another 10-12 bs, especially considering we just added another healthy GSD into the house that weighs about 75 lbs.

I can post pics later for her size.

Any advice is greatly appreciated you guys!

-Kyle


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

If the quantity is too much, then perhaps you should try to find a food that is more calorie dense than your current food. That way she can ingest more calories without having to eat more 'bulk'. My old senior shih tzu eats BB Wilderness Senior (a bit lower in fat and slightly less protein than Wilderness regular) and, although he is still quite active, I still have to monitor his intake closely as too much and he will gain weight on this food.


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## barnyard (Jun 21, 2012)

Has she been tested for EPI? That might be something I would consider asking the vet. If all is ok otherwise, look for a higher calorie food. 
Dr Tim's pursuit, Horizon Legacy, Wellness, etc.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I feed Tuke, 2 yr old 95lb female, 3.5 cups of NV Instict. She is moderately active, if I feed her any more she starts looking tubby. Zoey her litter mate eats 4+ cups of the same. She's 85 lbs and very active. We add a little canned, about 2 tbsp each meal. I'm not sure if I've got the correct Royal canine, but the Royal canine GSD 24 claims 343 kilocalories per cup and the NV is 464, so there is quite a difference. Here's the links I used
Home Royal Canin USA / Products / Products / Dog Products / BREED HEALTH NUTRITION? / German Shepherd 24? - Royal Canin
Instinct: Duck Meal & Turkey Meal Formula: Grain-Free Kibble for Dogs | Nature's Variety

You may want to look into Raw as well and there is plenty of info on that in the food section.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

barnyard said:


> Has she been tested for EPI? That might be something I would consider asking the vet. If all is ok otherwise, look for a higher calorie food.
> Dr Tim's pursuit, Horizon Legacy, Wellness, etc.


Thought about this as well, probably worth checking.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

Nigel you have the right Royal Canin.

Raw food was something I looked into and was quite interested in until we just adopted our 4 y/o female who is about 75 lbs. Once I switch her off the puppy food I probably will look for a more calorie dense food, but I want the the calories to be nutrient dense (hence the higher crude fat) instead of just empty calories.

EPI, I'm not really sure of what that is. Aside from the google search I'm about to do, can anyone shed any more specific light on it?

Thanks!


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm not experienced with epi, but there are several members who are. You can use the search block at the top center of the page and may find some helpful information from past threads. Enough of the threads I've read, the dog will have other signs like diarrhea/soft stool, sometimes huge appetite. You mention wanting to add a food with higher crude fat, can't remember why, but I though that higher fat content has some negative effect on epi dogs, I'll have to see if I can find it.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

*Photos Of Ziva*

Here are some photos of Ziva.

I took Peyton, our newest addition, to Petsmart last night and had some time to kill so I nutritionally compared food choices as some suggested and was shocked to see that Royal Canin was giving about 80-100 calories less a cup (240-300 cal a meal) than the Blue Buffalo Wilderness. So I picked up a bag of the duck recipe and am gonna start blending her on it. Hopefully it helps out.

Let me know what you guys think of her photos. Like I said, shes about 2 (she's a pound dog) and weighs 54 -56 lbs and has NOT put on any size in last 4-6 months.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

The pics are kind of dark, she definitely has a waist, but too dark to see much else.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

*Photos*

Heres some better photos hopefully.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Those pictures aren't any better. Can't you take the dog outside in that California sun so we can actually see her?


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

Marine Corps doesnt always allow for daytime walks. Heres some pics from our walk this morning.

Hopefully these are better!


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

She actually looks fine in the pictures. Some dogs are just slender. Give her some raw chicken with all the fat and skin intact, and raw eggs. Few healthy dogs will refuse that. If for whatever reason you're simply against feeding some raw, then pick out the high calorie kibble and add some canned food on top for palatability. If you have a Petco there, I find they have more high calorie high protein grain free selections than Petsmart.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

I've been wondering about the "raw egg" feeding I've seen mentioned on here
What's the purpose to that? And do you just crack the egg and toss it and the shell into the food bowl? I upped the calorie intake about 225 calories a feeding. Hopefully it helps her add on some.

Unfortunately raw feeding is out the door right now, wish it wasn't but the blue buffalo wilderness duck recipe will have to do for now


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## Ocean (May 3, 2004)

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/b-r-f-raw-feeding/150803-raw-feeding-faqs.html

Just break the egg and toss it on top of the kibble. Don't feed the shell because it'll just pass through. Egg shells are actually a good calcium supplement but they need to be ground up into powder for the dog to digest so there's no use in giving them otherwise.

You can also supplement the blue buffalo kibble with any kind of raw meat preferably on different meal times. It just adds protein, fat and healthy calories that help a dog gain weight especially meat that has quite a bit of fat. For example, we often take the skin and fat out of chicken before cooking it for ourselves to eat and give it to the dogs raw. You can also give beef or chicken or pork broth that is left over whenever you stew or boil any meat for yourself to eat. Broth with quite a bit of fat is good for weight gain. The nice thing is we try to avoid fat in meat for our food due to cholesterol so it is convenient that you can cut out or boil out the fat and give it to the dog to make it gain weight. It's like killing two birds with one stone. Treats can also make a dog gain weight but they're not healthy.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

She actually doesn't look too bad to me--she is on the lean side, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Her coat is glossy and she appears to have decent muscle tone. But I see what you mean about the prominent ribs and spine.

As a pound puppy, I assume she is spayed? If not, consider spaying her as soon as you are able. This will slow her metabolism down a bit and allow her to hold weight better.

You can try adding some animal fat to her kibble. Lard, tallow, hamburger or bacon drippings, salmon oil. Not too much at first--add maybe a tablespoon or two to each meal, much more may cause soft stools. 

If you can get your hands on some whole raw goat's milk, you could try adding a bit of that. There's something about whole raw goat's milk that really puts weight on, both animals and people! The first summer I was milking my goats and making yogurt, cheese, and ice cream, I gained about 15 pounds.  Most animals tolerate goat's milk better than cow's milk, but if it is raw, it is tolerated even better if you let it sour before feeding. To sour it, simply let it sit at room temperature for 2-3 days (or less if your weather is very warm). When the curd and whey begin to separate, it is ready. Don't try to sour the milk if it has been pastuerized; it will simply spoil rather than sour.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

Ocean, thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll try it on their kibble tonite... Let me restate that, I'll try it tonite lol.

Freestep, her weight was never a huge issue but we just added another GSD to the household who is about 20 lbs heavier. She is spayed and used to get Wild Alaska Salmon Oil on her food but I never saw a difference in her weight pick up. Could it be cause I didnt supplement it with Vit E? I wouldnt think that failure to provide her any supplemented Vit E would completely negate the Salmon Oil.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Nigel said:


> I'm not experienced with epi, but there are several members who are. You can use the search block at the top center of the page and may find some helpful information from past threads. Enough of the threads I've read, the dog will have other signs like diarrhea/soft stool, sometimes huge appetite. You mention wanting to add a food with higher crude fat, can't remember why, but I though that higher fat content has some negative effect on epi dogs, I'll have to see if I can find it.


My dog has EPI. He was thin to the point of starvation and his coat looked terrible before we finally figured out what was wrong. Basically with EPI they eat and eat and eat but are starving because their bodies don't make the enzymes they need to digest their food. His symptoms were extreme thinness, ravenous appetite, pudding poops, frequent pooping, and frequent drinking. Once he was diagnosed I started adding supplemental enzymes to his food and he gained back the weight he lost. He went from a starving 55lb to a lean and healthy 75lb. 

He eats a normal 30/20 protein/fat food with rice, all I have to do is add the enzymes.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

Emoore, how did you diagnose him? Blood test at the vet?


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## Lilac (Apr 9, 2013)

I just got here - your baby looks exactly like mine. I keep worrying over his weight, thinking he's too skinny. His coat is beautiful and glossy and he has tons of energy, so maybe he is just built like that. He's only 22 weeks.


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## kagarcia (Feb 18, 2013)

Well I switched her over to blue buffalo wilderness and I'm glad to say has visibly put on weight, maybe 3-4 lbs. I haven't weighed her yet but to the naked eye she looks better. She's getting about 250 calories more a meal and has no problem finishing her 3.5 scoops a nite. 
Hopefully this keeps up!


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

be careful when giving the dog a lot of rendered fats. Once an animal fat has been heated it becomes very difficult to digest . 

Linatone --- this is OMEGA 6 , the very thing you want to reduce , not bring in , especially to a dog getting food with grain , which is higher in omega 6 .

Soybean oil, oleic acid, lecithin, meat flavor, polyethylene glycol 400, food coloring, dl-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), vitamin A palmitate, beta carotene, polysorbate 80, anise oil, cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), dimethyl polysiloxane

most soybean is GMO. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/27/soybean-oil.aspx and others Oil Pharm Soybean Oil based Pest Killer 

I bet this would work for tick removal -- 

at my organic market this past Saturday as the annual excitement begins with heirloom varieties being sold , the conversation also turned to weed control. Soybean , which I will try , is apparently a good weed control "
*Bite Blocker EcoBlender Weed Killer*

Bite Blocker EcoBlender Weed Killer uses soybean oil, citric acids and cedar oil as the main ingredients in their child- and pet-friendly weed killer. Using a formula that features fatty acids of plant oils, the product will work in one to seven days. Safe to use, the product will break down weeds into a compost. The product is suitable for use on agricultural gardens, as well as flower gardens.


Read more: Top 5 Pet-Safe Weed Killers | Garden Guides Top 5 Pet-Safe Weed Killers | Garden Guides "

Oleic acid and soybean oil are components of natural insecticides -- 96% soybean oil . This year I am going to spritz some vicious red ant homes with it to see if we can't e-"Raid"dicate them . 

dl-alpha tocopherol is a synthetic isomer , inferior to the natural form d alpha tocopherol and less bio available .

polyethylene glycol is used as a thickener in cosmetic formulas --- it is also used as a laxative .


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