# Sieger... confused.



## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Hi guys, this will probably sound like a silly question but I am totally confused.









I was wondering... what exactly is the Sieger? I googled it, and from the websites it brought me too, it looked more like show (conformation?) but on youtube it looked more like schutzhund.









Also, on one of those websites it had said in order to enter the sieger you must have schH1, but on Asta's german line it only shows sieger titles but no schutzund titles. 

I'm totally stumped. 

Thanks, 

Joleen


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## windwalker718 (Oct 9, 2008)

Sieger is the VA1 dog of a country's National show. I believe that's also the only show that VA ratings are given. It could be that the person entering info on the website didn't know, or didn't enter the working titles of the dogs in the pedigree. You might contact her breeder for a more complete pedigree, or one of the many advertised Pedigree sites (including AKC) that include foreign titles.


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## VALIUM (Nov 15, 2007)

As far as I know only german showlines can enter Sieger Show, right folks?.


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

No, but those are the only ones that would do well in it and probably even place.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Sieger actually is the German term for "Champion" or Championship

THE Sieger Show (BSZS) is the National (World) Championship for conformation in Germany.

At any local show, the V1 male is the show Sieger, and V1 female is the show Siegerin.

The Sieger show is entered by hundreds of dogs in Germany, the working class is the premier class, and the VA 1 is considered the World Champion of all GSDs that year. Working line dogs are often entered, but normally place in the lower rings/numbers. It is a very great accomplishment to get a V (Excellent) rating with a working dog at the Sieger show.


Lee


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## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks guys. I think I understand better now. I think I'll be giving her breeder a call now, I'm definitely curious to see her lineage's placing.









There are three showing V placings, and the others only have the name of the sieger (worldseiger) on them. Not sure if that means they placed anything in it? It must hey? (<---- there's my canadian coming out.







)

Not sure if I can post this here, it is a run-on of my original post? (I did post in the bloodlines & pedigree but no one has made a comment yet)

Here is what I have so far for her pedigree. Comments on deciphering sieger titles welcome. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/6/588827.html


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## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

> Originally Posted By: WolfstraumSieger actually is the German term for "Champion" or Championship
> 
> THE Sieger Show (BSZS) is the National (World) Championship for conformation in Germany.
> 
> ...


Lee, how would one know if the GSD was in the conformation sieger or the working class sieger? Other titles that come along with the GSD?


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## GSDextrodinaire (Dec 15, 2002)

Sieger or Siegerin (male/female) means that dog was #1 in that class, you will also see Vice Sieger or Vice Siegerin, means #2 in that class. The only ones that people really care about is the Sieger or Siegerin in the WORKING DOG class. That is just the class where the dog has a working title. In a local or regional show, the sieger is can be a SchH1,2 or 3. In the USA, NASS or German Sieger (the most popular ones) the dog has to be a SchH2 or SchH3, that is because the VA 1 placement is the sieger. In local and regional show, VA is NOT given, so the highest placement is V1.

In order to be a Sieger or Siegerin of a major show, (country show) the dog must have a working title of a SchH2 or SchH3. It doesn't matter if the dog is working lines, show lines or a combination or lines. Sieger is just the dog with the title that won.

Now if you really want to be confused, what about Universal Sieger? LOL


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## alaman (May 3, 2006)

OG-Zucht- und Nachwuchsschau OGZ Wuppertal-Barmen Nordrheinland 


Any idea what type of show this is?


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## Northof46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Dee, I'm not sure if I'm ready for that yet.







LOL


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Honestly when I read "Sieger" I just think the winner of the class. You can be Sieger of a regional show, a national show, a continental show, the huge shows in Germany....you can be the "youth sieger" which is the younger male not yet in the working dog class.... There is no single "Sieger". It's just the VA1, V1, or SG1 dog in the class at whatever show. I've also seen WUSV winners referred to as the Sieger.

Generally, THE *Sieger* is the VA1 dog at the huge world show in Germany. That's what people generally refer to as The Sieger Show.

But then there's NASS, the North American Sieger Show. So the VA1 dog at this show will likely want to claim the honor of the "Sieger". The Canadians have a Sieger Show, as does United Schutzhund Clubs of America (the USA Sieger Show).....

So yeah, I just look at the show. If it's a huge show like NASS or the BSZS, generally it will state so on the PDB because that's a bigger honor than being a Sieger at a regional show (where VAs aren't even awarded).


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## Deejays_Owner (Oct 5, 2005)

To me it should be as Windwalker18 has posted.



> Originally Posted By: Windwalker18Sieger is the VA1 dog of a country's National show. I believe that's also the only show that VA ratings are given.


We still have an Open Adult Class in the Canadian Sieger Show, I know that class has been dropped in the USA & NASS Shows in the last few years .

I would never call Deejay the "2007 Canadian Open Sieger", but my definition this would be correct.


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## Rügen (Mar 19, 2008)

Here's a link to the historical list of the VA1 Bundes Siegers from THE Sieger Show (BSZS), the National (World) Championship for conformation in Germany as stated in Lee's post. 

These are the world champions (with photos!) dating back to 1899 and include some of the foundation dogs of the breed.


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/siegershow_winners.html


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Brian is right that only VAs are given at a National Championship level - the class where the "Sieger" of the show is chosen is the "WORKING CLASS" - which means it is a conformation class in which all dogs must have a title. Only dogs with Schh2 are eligible for a VA rating. All dogs in every class get a rating, and a sequential numerical placement - ONLY titled dogs can get a "V" or Excellent conformation rating. The young dogs are called "Junghund Sieger" for example, or "Young dog Champion" - Each class has a winner/"sieger" but ONLY the titled working dog class in a conformation show produces "THE Sieger" of that show!(FWIW, I learned all this from a breeder who shows in Germany, and has had a US Sieger and 2 dogs who have been VA here - USA and NASS)....so I think I have a good grasp on it LOL LOL Just substitute the word winner or champion where you see Sieger, and it may make more sense.

From looking at the pedigree you link to, I do not recoginize the dogs at all. Or "Europasieger" as a recognized SV title. Is your dog a coated GSD? Or are one of his parents coated? The coats have their own show circuit in Europe, and I suspect that the sire may be from those lines.

Lee


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

I found three dogs from the kennel Castel-EOS in my WinSis software but not Munko. All three were born in the mid-sixties, early 70s. They were German lines.



> Quote:From looking at the pedigree you link to, I do not recoginize the dogs at all. Or "Europasieger" as a recognized SV title.


It may be possible that the dog was a Europasieger since the WUSV used to be known as the Europameister before it became known as the World Championship. I don't think this dog won that championship but perhaps there was a conformation event with that title.


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