# Deramaxx no longer available - alternatives that work for your senior?



## Magwart

The problem with Novartis's shut-down of their canine pharma plant has become very inconvenient. I had a big supply of Deramaxx that is finally dwindling down to the last few doses. My senior guy is on a _very _low dose (just 50 mg, once a day), but it makes a big difference in his quality of life. He had been slowing down a lot, despite his glucosamine/chondroitin/msm and fish oil regiment, and he seemed increasingly stiff when he got up. With the Deramaxx, he's clearly feeling better. He's got a spring in his step, and he doesn't plod quite as slowly on his walks. He plays more and just seems to have a better quality of life. There's no doubt it's working, and he's _so _worth the cost. I also know he's tolerating it very well, as we do regular bloodwork to monitor liver response. The fact that such a low dose is effective for him is terrific....I'm thus very disheartened to have to switch to something else.

I am a bit leery about Rimadyl/Carprofen because it's less specific to Cox-2 and seems to have a higher incidence of adverse reactions. I've never used it with my dogs, though, so I can't compare it first-hand. 

Are there any former Deramaxx senior dogs here who have found substitute that compares favorably? (Maybe Previcox?) If so, I'd be very grateful to learn what drug you switched to, and why you are happy with it.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Tramadol is not a NSAID and is being used a lot, it seems. Will get a couple of links. . .it is definitely a different kind of drug.

Adequan for Dogs is a good article and then she has some at the bottom: 
Pain in Dogs and Cats: Introduction and Basics Pain in Dogs and Cats: Injuries, Mild Pain, Arthritis, First Aid Pain in Dogs and Cats: Post-Surgery, Severe Pain
Holistic Care for Pets

that I like. 

Also this: DogAware.com Health: Arthritis in Dogs

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tramadol.html

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/pain/ has some nice info. 

I have safely used Metacam, using that liquid to dose way down, weight wise, on one dog, once, but try to steer clear of NSAIDs - you are doing it well though.


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## Tatonkafamily

Like PP said, Tramadol is not an NSAID but it has worked wonders for London. We had him on both Carprofen and Tramadol for awhile (spinal issues) and as a test I took him off Carprofen for about 10 days. He does great with just the Tramadol - we figure he needs the pain control not the anti inflammatory control on a regular basis. I still keep the other on hand for when over does it on a hike or playing with the younger pups but daily he doesn't use it anymore. Tramadol is cheaper too!

Oh, and I switched back and forth between Deramaxx and Rimadyl with no issues before.


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## Magwart

Thanks for the links and suggestions.

I just made an appointment to talk to a vet about options later today. Adequan's never been offered or suggested by my usual vet, who has been pushing me to switch to Rimadyl. This morning, I made a couple of phone calls and located a different, younger, well-regarded vet who does use Adequan. I've scheduled a consultation to review all possible options to keep my old guy comfortable. I'll ask about Tramadol and Metacam, too.


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## Nikitta

I used cosequin on my old guy. He lived 14 years. I had him on suppliments too.


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## NancyJ

Metacam-expensive but it is easy to meter down the liquid. I had my 50lb dog on a 20 lb dose.


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## GatorBytes

Here's my suggestion that saved a dog (not mine) from euthinasia two months ago

A product by Genuine Health (may be a canadian company, there is .ca links and .com links so not sure if readily available or has to be shipped), anyhow...It's called "Fast Joint Plus Care" with claims of 5-10 days. Well...5 days my dog went from being completely immobile to getting up to greet me again, within 10 days he was voluntarily going on walks and was smiling again (was hand feeding him as he was in too much pain to go to his bowl)...(he had a knee injury, and was in very bad shape...a long story).

This product mad a huge difference in getting him going so his muscles didn't atrophied any further. I was also using a product called Wobenzyme (still do) for inflammation.
Eventually I couldn't maintain the expence of some suppliments including calcium so I dumped the F.J.P. and calcium and started making ground eggshells, by fluke I happened across a blurb about chicken stock (something I already knew, but...well it was just one more thing to do and I was beat)
I had been rehabilitating him for several months, and he had good days and bad, then Dec. hit and he was baaaad! I thought holy crap, my poor dog at 7 yrs. old and is walking like a 14 yr. old, I was sooo sad, he is too beautiful to have his life cut short.
SO, I grabbed some frozen chicken frames, my slow cooker, some vinigar...Made my first batch on Dec. 29th/2011 (most fat removed prior, and the rest skimmed off - strain bones)...On Jan. 30th/2012, I was preparing to take him on his final walk of the day...he headed into the bedroom (I had made a bed for him next to mine where he slept for 10 months)to "get ready", I went to brush my teeth...then went into my room expecting to kneal down to give him "bellies"...HE WAS ON MY BED!!! I nearly fainted...10 months he couldn't jump up, within 30 days of feeding him chicken stock he was on my bed. 
HE didn't go up there again (that I know of) for another month, but was tearing down the road on walks, had a spring in his step again, and now....I can't get the knucklhead off my bed  

The woman I met two months ago dog exhibited the exact same issues as mine, her vet suggested euthinasia.....within two weeks of FJP and chicken stock, her dog was walking a half an hour, she called me a couple nights ago...he is bounding and swimming and chasing stick and climbing stairs.

Try it, it can't hurt (NEM - on the website link stands for Natural Eggshell Membrane)...you only need 1 per day, and the chicken stock...1/2 cup to a cup...make a huge batch and freeze, but has to be chicken for the cartiledge...(type 11 collegen)

http://www.genuinehealth.com/fast-joint-care-1.html

Cheers


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## Jax08

Talk to your vet about laser therapy. It's made a huge difference in my friends lab with ED. It has no side affects. A vet I talked to had used it on herself and it worked for her. My chiropractor uses it on my herniated disk and on my foot and it works. You need a "loading" dose but then it's just once per month. So initially it will cost more but the monthly maintenance is less than any drugs and won't due damage to the body.


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## JakodaCD OA

metacam can be gotten much cheaper in the human form of meloxicalm.

I have also used Previcox which is on the same line as the deramaxx, worked great but was rather pricey.


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## Magwart

On Friday, I had a long consultation with a new vet, whom I like very much. He's used adequan with a lot of success in GSDs and is very enthusiastic about it. He did the best Ortho exam we've had yet, and he found diminished range of motion, and some pain in the right hip. Simon was such a good guy, just pressing his forehead gently into me to hide his eyes, and yipping when it hurt. 

We had a long talk about options. We have decided to try adequan -- Simon's play care is in the same building, so he'll get to go play on shot days, which will make him happy. This new vet's practice is actually in the process of buying a laser therapy machine, so in a few months, that will be an option, too. He's fully on board with trying to develop a comprehensive, multi-pronged approach that will keep Simon as comfortable as possible, as safely as possible, with the least reliance on NSAIDs. I'm _not _going to let Simon hurt (he's been too good a friend for too many years!), but we're going to try to phase the NSAIDs out as the adequan hopefully takes effect, perhaps with Tramadol or Gabipentin in the arsenal for "bad" days. 

This vet also wants me to increase the fish oil from the current 2000 mg to 3000 mg, and maybe higher as long as there's no digestive upset, to boost the natural anti-inflamamatory effect. He likes the other supplements I'm already using (gluc/chondroitin; Prozyme, which has bromelain, another inflammation fighter). 

We're doing a fresh, comprehensive set of x-rays today, under sedation. Simon's at the vet now. We'll know more this afternoon, once the vet evaluates the new images.

Gator, I looked up FJP, and I ordered a bottle from Drugstore.com to try. Do you have any articles or links you can point me to regarding the chicken stock (theories about how/why it works)? I'd like to read more about it; this is the first time I've heard of chicken stock being a treatment for joint pain, and I'm interested in learning more.


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## GatorBytes

Magwart said:


> On Friday, I had a long consultation with a new vet, whom I like very much. He's used adequan with a lot of success in GSDs and is very enthusiastic about it. He did the best Ortho exam we've had yet, and he found diminished range of motion, and some pain in the right hip. Simon was such a good guy, just pressing his forehead gently into me to hide his eyes, and yipping when it hurt.
> 
> We had a long talk about options. We have decided to try adequan -- Simon's play care is in the same building, so he'll get to go play on shot days, which will make him happy. This new vet's practice is actually in the process of buying a laser therapy machine, so in a few months, that will be an option, too. He's fully on board with trying to develop a comprehensive, multi-pronged approach that will keep Simon as comfortable as possible, as safely as possible, with the least reliance on NSAIDs. I'm _not _going to let Simon hurt (he's been too good a friend for too many years!), but we're going to try to phase the NSAIDs out as the adequan hopefully takes effect, perhaps with Tramadol or Gabipentin in the arsenal for "bad" days.
> 
> This vet also wants me to increase the fish oil from the current 2000 mg to 3000 mg, and maybe higher as long as there's no digestive upset, to boost the natural anti-inflamamatory effect. He likes the other supplements I'm already using (gluc/chondroitin; Prozyme, which has bromelain, another inflammation fighter).
> 
> We're doing a fresh, comprehensive set of x-rays today, under sedation. Simon's at the vet now. We'll know more this afternoon, once the vet evaluates the new images.
> 
> Gator, I looked up FJP, and I ordered a bottle from Drugstore.com to try. Do you have any articles or links you can point me to regarding the chicken stock (theories about how/why it works)? I'd like to read more about it; this is the first time I've heard of chicken stock being a treatment for joint pain, and I'm interested in learning more.


Excellent! I trust you read the Fast Joint Care + link, w/testimonials. You only need one per day, not specific as to with or away from food. It has broad spectrum coverage...the adjuvant of the chicken stock, will further assist in producing collagen - Type 1 in eggshell membraine and Type 11 in chicken cartilage...you can buy suppliments that contain or comprised of Type 11 from chicken sternum, or you can make chicken stock...at $0.02/day.

The theory with chicken stock and using vinigar, is the vinigar extracts all the nutrients - trace minerals from the bones as well as cartilage. The sternum is cartilage a nice big hunk of it. So if you combine the benefits of the Type 11 collagen + trace nutrients in the bones there is better uptake that is natural to the body to recognize and use and in a nice tastey food topping! I will post seperately.

I think w/adequin, FJP and stock, you'll have your poochie off NSAIDS within 5 days.


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## GatorBytes

Chicken Stock

Raw chicken frames - 2 or 3 or 4 depending on size of pot using and amount you want to make
Slow cooker or stock pot
White or raw apple cider vinigar
Strip as much fat as you can, use kitchen shears.
Toss in as many carcass's as you can fit based on pot you are using.
Add 1 Tablespoon vinigar per carcass

Fill with water to approx. 1 inch above bones
Cover and set slow cooker on high and let simmer for several hours (no hard and fast rule here), turn it to low when it looks like about 1/4" has reduced, continue cooking - go have fun with your dogs...Slow cooker method 24 hours.

Stock pot, same as above, but don't leave unattended, boil, reduce, simmer 8hrs (I prefer slow cooker).

let it cool a bit so as not to steam your face. 
Remove bones, strain 2 x at least. You don't want to loose all the sediment, just the bones, so collander is fine (not fine mesh - nutrients could be in the sediment.
Refidgerate overnight. 
Skim remaining lard type fat that has hardened to the surface.
If stock is all gelatinous (jelly)...then you cooked it the correct amount of time. If not who cares, it will still start to work.
Stir it up to bring sediment thru
Portion into containers and freeze
Feed 1/2 cup to a cup per day (split a.m/p.m.), in food (I used 1/2 cup on my 85lb. dog and that worked fine...actually...it worked miracles!

Side note here: My dog hurt his knee, suspected CCL tear, he never had surgery. I tried all kinds of things with moderate results. The end of Dec. I made this stock, he started showing improvement...30 days later, he jumped on my bed...he couldn't jump for 10 months. Now I can't get him off my bed, so it's back to sleeping with fur again...But I woouldn't have it any other way. 
I should also mention I started grinding eggshells then too for calcium as I couldn't afford the Fast Joint Plus anymore (had been off it for 2 months) had run out of glucosimine and calcium, so made do with what I had to work with...turns out, was the best thing that could have happened! 

Let food be your medicine and let your medicne be your food ~ Hippocretes

Bone Appetit


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## Magwart

Oh, dear. I've been vegetarian for over 20 years. I buy Fromm meat-based food and treats for the dogs, but I haven't handled an actual dead animal carcass in decades. I may end up vomiting to do this for him.  

By "chicken frame," do you mean a whole raw chicken from the grocery store? Or is it something different?


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## GatorBytes

Magwart said:


> Oh, dear. I've been vegetarian for over 20 years. I buy Fromm meat-based food and treats for the dogs, but I haven't handled an actual dead animal carcass in decades. I may end up vomiting to do this for him.
> 
> By "chicken frame," do you mean a whole raw chicken from the grocery store? Or is it something different?


LMAO!!!...vegetarian handling carcass's...I can see industrial strength rubber gloves on your x-mas wish list

Well I buy frames, they are stripped of the legs wings and muscle meat, so just the spine, back, neck ribs, and breast bone and shoulder flexers (I guess...I'm trying picture a chicken)...I can only get them in chinese grocery stores and get 3-4 to a bag for a buck...Butcher may have or discard, or sell for stock. Using a whole chicken could get pretty expensive


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## Magwart

I just had another long conversation with the vet. The good news is the new images confirm that he doesn't have dysplasia. The hips are not_ terrible._ There is a bit of arthritic degeneration, but they aren't the worst hips the vet has seen. Pretty much what I'd expected -- he's got some arthritis, and just like with people, the NSAID makes it feel better. There's no sign of spinal problems in the x-ray (though a bulging disk wouldn't show up anyway...).

The bad news is that the vet has a niggling suspicion that there may be a very early hint of DM (Simon's slow to return his foot when it's knuckled under, and there's some muscle atrophy, despite his daily exercise). The vet had Simon out walking around a while today, to observe movement and gait. There's no crossing over. Given Simon's responsiveness to Deramaxx, and the pain when his hip is manipulated, we're treating the arthritis with adequan . . . and watching and praying no other DM signals ever materialize, since there's just not enough to have more than a vague suspicion at this point. (My dad lost a wonderful GSD to DM, and it's a sad way for a dog to go, so this scares me...).


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## GatorBytes

Hi there...don't put the horse before the cart. He is also ana ging dog and reflexes slow. Was the test done prior to x-ray...re: anestesia?

It's hard to have that seed planted especially when it is something that has hit so close to home in past. But just so you know, it scares me too. Just reading up on it and you can almost determine that slight signs although many possiblities, you start going OMG!

However, you can slow the roll of progression, which in essence is treated the same as you would trying to slow aging. It is Degeneration. So you have to look at all the issues of the disease process, the triggers/causes and work from there. I.E. - nerve degeneration - Use B-comples AND extra B-12...Heavy metal toxicity, certain amino acids + apple pectin (binds and removes metal deposits) anti-oxidants, Chiro, smoothing out boney deposits as a result of inflammation - Bromalien/papaya...keeping the cushing strong between the compression of the discs - collagen...Exercise...massage...acupuncture...and NO more vaccinations!!!

Anyhow, here is an explaination of properties of bone stock...Type 11 collagen is only found in chicken however...this is not "clinical" evidence...but it's best I could find as to why it works, you'll get it

The Healing Power of Bone Broth Transition Now


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## huntergreen

Magwart said:


> I just had another long conversation with the vet. The good news is the new images confirm that he doesn't have dysplasia. The hips are not_ terrible._ There is a bit of arthritic degeneration, but they aren't the worst hips the vet has seen. Pretty much what I'd expected -- he's got some arthritis, and just like with people, the NSAID makes it feel better. There's no sign of spinal problems in the x-ray (though a bulging disk wouldn't show up anyway...).
> 
> The bad news is that the vet has a niggling suspicion that there may be a very early hint of DM (Simon's slow to return his foot when it's knuckled under, and there's some muscle atrophy, despite his daily exercise). The vet had Simon out walking around a while today, to observe movement and gait. There's no crossing over. Given Simon's responsiveness to Deramaxx, and the pain when his hip is manipulated, we're treating the arthritis with adequan . . . and watching and praying no other DM signals ever materialize, since there's just not enough to have more than a vague suspicion at this point. (My dad lost a wonderful GSD to DM, and it's a sad way for a dog to go, so this scares me...).


what is dm?


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## Magwart

huntergreen said:


> what is dm?


Degenerative Myelopathy


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## GatorBytes

Magwart said:


> Degenerative Myelopathy


Hey there...How is Simon doing??? any improvement?


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## Ilovealldogs

I have thought about using Adequan for my 15 year-old, but it is quite pricey. I have had her on Glyco Flex III and saw no side effects and good improvement in her joints.


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## Magwart

GatorBytes said:


> Hey there...How is Simon doing??? any improvement?


Thanks for asking! 

Simon is doing _great_. We're now 2.5 weeks into the Adequan, and we've added lots of supplements:
-Collagen II 
-NEM (Joint Care Plus) 
-50% more fish oil (from 2000 to 3000 mg, and we're probably headed for 4000)
-vit. E (mixed tocopherols, due to the high amount of fish oil)
-ester-C 
-extra Prozyme (bromelain)
-B-complex (just in case there's unmanifested DM...:/). 

His food bowl looks like a pharmacy, but he doesn't mind. The hope is that the supplements support the Adequan, to feed the body as it builds the new cartilage. 

Right now, he's on a super-low dose of Carprofen and Gabapentin while we let the loading dose of Adequan do it's thing. The doseage is at the very bottom of his weight range....eventually, I'll experiment with halving it, and then see if we can fade it away, while keeping a supply on hand for "bad" days (storms coming in during the winter, for example...). 

So far, he's had a good spring in his step (we've increased his walks back up to around 3 miles total per day, and he seems very happy with that, as he's got good "pep" now). I've let him set the pace on walks recently to see how fast he wants to go, and he wants to move at a fast clip--which I think shows he's feeling good (in the past, he was often a plodding slow-poke when we walked). He even recently asked politely if we could jog a little keep up with our younger dog and my husband (who were jogging ahead of us). Last night he also _jumped_ through the dog door when it was supper time, and he hasn't done that in a while. He also tried to climb up in our laps on the couch, another thing he hasn't done in a long time. All that is very, very good.

As we've thrown everything we can at this for the past three weeks, I can't say whether it's the Adequan, the supplements, or even the new two-medicine pain-relieving cocktail, that's responsible for the improvement, but it's clearly working for him. My impression is that it's probably all three (adequan, supplements, pain meds), since he's better now than when he was on a low dose of Deramaxx alone. 

Going down stairs still seems like it's uncomfortable and shaky, but the back stairs are a little steep (and slippery in the rain, since they just got a fresh coat of paint). We're going to put some rubber treads down this weekend to see if it helps him feel more secure.


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## GatorBytes

Yeah Simon!!

Have you thought about adding Coconut oil to the mix...I'll have to review some stuff I was looking at today that relates to the brain and mylein sheath and what not...

I was so excited reading your post I burnt my bagel:laugh:


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## Magwart

GatorBytes said:


> Have you thought about adding Coconut oil to the mix...I'll have to review some stuff I was looking at today that relates to the brain and mylein sheath and what not...


Funny thing...I actually just ordered some organic, unrefined coconut oil for my kitchen. If the article you were reviewing about it and the nervous system is online, I'd love to read it!

Last night, after I posted, Simon turned another corner in his progress. I wish we'd known about adequan years ago.

My DH kept laughing at how fast Simon wanted to go on our evening walk last night and how _bouncy _our old dog was. Simon was _trotting _with a big smile on his face, and we were race-walking.  After a bit of that, DH and Simon then decided to go for a short 3/4 mi. jog then finished it with a warm-down walk. DH said the leash felt like he had his old running buddy back--Simon was moving like it felt really, really good. There was no hesitation or slowness--just joy in the movement (like **wheee! I can run!**). He doesn't have much endurance since it's been a long time since he's done that, but it's fabulous to see that he _wants _to do it. I don't think Simon will be running a 5K with DH the way he used to, but he's definitely doing better than he's done in years. 

I'm a believer in Adequan now. We're at about the end of week 3. It's _so _worth the cost. 

It's like it's turned the clock back several years for him. The best part is seeing how _happy _my old friend seems to be lately. :happyboogie:


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## carmspack

sternum and condoyles are rich in chondroitin. Chicken necks and turkey necks -- extremely rich source , better than the carcass frame actually .
good coverage here in this discussion http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...zation/182706-correcting-down-pasterns-2.html


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## GatorBytes

Magwart said:


> Funny thing...I actually just ordered some organic, unrefined coconut oil for my kitchen. If the article you were reviewing about it and the nervous system is online, I'd love to read it!
> 
> 
> It's like it's turned the clock back several years for him. The best part is seeing how _happy _my old friend seems to be lately. :happyboogie:


I will send some links later today...may not be specific to "nervous system, but relates to disease that are neurological and specific the mylein sheath which you are supplimenting B's for...hopefully using a natural form (b-12 should be Methyl form)

There is direct link w/deficient cholesteral in the brain and degerative disorders inflammation and so on...this relates to "natural" alzheimers studies...here's a blur...
The most cutting-edge research suggests that Alzheimer's may stem from an inability of the brain to process glucose, *leading to cell death*. But the brain has another source of fuel: _ketones_, produced by the body from mid-chain triglycerides like those found in coconut oil.
Alzheimer's is really just 'type-3' diabetes, new research shows

Looking at Alzheimers' think about the degerative processes that go along with that....people start to loose cognitive function, muscles atropy, loose mobility, bodily functions, loss of motor skills...

Here is a link...that provides many many links of studies - look under Peer reviewed and scientific at top of page...
Coconutoil.com - Research on Coconut Oil's Health Benefits

So happy for you and your doggie


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## Jax08

carmspack said:


> sternum and condoyles are rich in chondroitin. Chicken necks and turkey necks -- extremely rich source , better than the carcass frame actually .
> good coverage here in this discussion http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...zation/182706-correcting-down-pasterns-2.html


Carmen - does cooking the necks, or other parts, degrade the chondroitin? Is it better to feed the items RAW vs a broth?


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## carmspack

when you give it in a broth you can provide the nutrients from many pounds of necks etc , an increased "therapeutic" dose because you are concentrating it.
The animal would be full and sated long before he could consume that much weight in necks or frames.

It's handy.

For a very good source of "cartilage" you can resort to shark cartilage -- pharmaceutical grade pure . Bell is a commercial supplier of this Nutritional Support for Soothing Joint Comfort with Bell Shark Cartilage. - made in USA

I have pharmaceutical grade shark cartilage in storage on stand by should I ever have to deal with a dire case , canine or equine.

there is another thread going on at the moment with a person feeding Orijen topped off with tablespoons of canned dog food. This gelatine from the bone broth would be so much better -- with benefits -- or for convalescing animals the bone broth blenderized with some warmed chicken liver --


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## Jax08

Thanks Carmen.


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## GatorBytes

carmspack said:


> sternum and condoyles are rich in chondroitin. Chicken necks and turkey necks -- extremely rich source , better than the carcass frame actually .
> good coverage here in this discussion http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...zation/182706-correcting-down-pasterns-2.html


Hey I read the link you provided...have you been to the link on HOD...poor little puppy - could use your knowledge...bone broth I am sure was the key ingredient that gave my dog back his ability to jump on my bed again (after 10 months of walking like a geriatric - he has slowed again of late, but another story)...Magwart posts she is a vegetarian, so thinking handling carcass's, necks etc. (carcass's I buy have a bit of neck - but my dog doesn't digest the forked bone in them so I don't feed raw) may be a bit too much, but some beef knuckle bones and femurs, necks would be easier...or perhap a pre-made broth from an organic food store???

Magwort - the properties of stock go way deep, serve the GI tract, trace minerals, so much...worth an investigation/trial.

Would aim to get off those anti-inflamms. though...toxic to the liver and when the liver doesn't function well, causes a whole host of other problems including removal of the drug deposits - drug deposits by the drugs used to help w/inflammation.

Natural anti-infl. Curcumin, yucca, devils claw, ginger...


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## carmspack

so my supplement has turmeric, ginger, yucca, msm, glucosamine , natural sources of Vit C , quercitin , rutin .. MINERALS - from spirulina , kelp ..............
others have bromelain, papain, amla , .............

I make bone broth in the winter and take to market to sell -- won't do it in the steamy summer when we are already wilting from heat and humidity.

PREVENTION is so much easier than repair . 

I'll look at the HOD later, going to be "absent" for a few days again --- in the meantime it would be interesting to find out if the diagnosis is true HOD or HOD-like in symptoms and whether there is a co-relation to vaccination . When I see knobbly knees on a growing pup I worry -- people like to get their dogs "BIG BONED" and this "knee" is promoted by high caloric feeding (much) and general over weight and under movement .

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com


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## Midnight351

Hi there,
I'm new here but your Simon sounds alot like my Midnight. He is 12 and a half and slowing down. He's healthy in all other respects but his vet visit last week shows moderate arthritic changes in his hips. We haven't had him on NSAIDs yet, but I've had him on a regimen of glucosamine, chondroitin msm. I also give him ester c, vit e and salmon oil. I also give him coconut oil on occasion as well. He is on a grain free diet as well. 
I've decided to switch to dasaquin with msm as I think my current glucosamine isn't cutting it. The vet also wants to start him on previcox and adequan injections next week. He is on tramadol right now as we are doing an NSAID washout before starting previcox. (I gave him a buffered aspirin as he was really bad the day before the vet visit.) 
Signs that were telling us he was slowing down is lagging on walks, even the routes he could do a month before are a challenge for him now. He hasn't jumped on my bed in months, he's stiff getting up from a laying down position, and the four stairs to our apartment are a chore for him. 
I'm super hopeful as you say Simon is doing so well. I'm hoping the adequan wiill help. I'm also going to look into doing that chicken stock. I have been afraid of NSAIDs as my old shepherd couldn't tolerate them. There was only rimadyl on the market when he was alive though. It's just so sad to see my once vibrant active dog having such difficulties with something as simple as a walk around the block. Especially when we used to go for 3 mile walks everyday. His blood work is textbook perfect with no signs of organ issues, it's just his joints. 
Like you I am also deathly afraid of dm as my previous shepherd ended up with it, though he passed from other causes before it got really bad. Midnight is a shepherd husky mix so I wonder if that makes a difference? The only thing that makes me think of dm is he occasionally scrapes his nails at the end of walks. The vet did the knuckle test and saw no deficit and said he doesn't have the range of motion that he used to so he isn't picking up his feet like normal. We aren't ruling it out and will continue to watch for signs but it is probably still just arthritis. I have started him on b complex and coenzyme q10 just in case. We also are going to possibly start acupuncture as my aunt is an acupuncturist. Seeing that your Simon is having such good progress is giving me hope. Ive known midnight is getting old, but I think it has really hit us after that vet visit. Seeing positive posts like this though are comforting. I hope that your Simon continues to improve!


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## Magwart

Just wanted to update that Simon's still doing _great. _

Simon sprawled across my lap this afternoon on the couch, with most of his weight on his hips and his forelegs over me to give kisses. He's been feeling very frisky lately. He has been playing with the younger dogs too. If I let him set the pace of the walk, I'm often race-walking as he wants to move at a really good clip now. It's really wonderful to see him with so much get-up-and go -- this is radically different than a year ago!

We're still doing Adequan every other week, and lots of supplements. 

I've come to believe that the natural eggshell membrane (NEM) is a very important supplement. I've shifted from the Fast Joint Care Plus brand to the Vitacost.com brand, as it's $20/mo instead of $30 and still seems to be very good quality. Gatorbytes' advice on using NEM as a supplement is spot on! It's a supplement that isn't talked about much, but I think it's valuable for arthritis. This video on Mercola's site talks about what's in the NEM that's so useful, and why it works:
Pet Joint Supplements | Healthy Joint Support - Mercola.com

We do the NEM in the AM, then a Collagen II/Hyaluronic acid [chicken sternum] supplement in the PM. They seem very similar in what the do, but from slightly different sources, so different biological profiles. 

Our next step will be adding some acupuncture sessions, now that I've finally found a well-regarded canine acupuncturist locally.

It isn't inexpensive. I think the Adequan administered at the vet's office (my preference), plus all the supplements, adds up to a total cost that's between $125 and $150/mo., and it's a cost that will continue indefinitely. This dog is so worth it...I hope we can do this for him for a long, long time. I do think the cost could likely be cut way down by doing the injections at home, making chicken stock from chicken carcases with sternum, and possibly feeding the membranes from regular eggs. For us, though, the time and convenience (and not wanting to do IM injections myself) are a factor in the cost. 

My heartfelt thanks to all of you who contributed advice and suggestions. I learned about Adequan, from Jean's post and helpful links. The Collagen II and NEM were also great ideas. He's really moving better now than when he was on Deramaxx and then (briefly) Rimadyl/Carprofen--that's pretty great.


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## readmeli

BTW, I believe Deramaxx is available again.


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## Magwart

We're not going that route again. We're doing way better without it. 

In retrospect, that drug going temporarily off market was a blessing. It forced me to re-evaluate and look at options other than NSAIDs. So glad I did.


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## arycrest

I'm not a Deramaxx fan because it caused a massive internal hemorrhage that killed my 12-1/2 year old girl ten years ago next month. I prefer Metacam/Meloxicalm, Tramadol, Adequan.


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## readmeli

Magwart said:


> We're not going that route again. We're doing way better without it.
> 
> In retrospect, that drug going temporarily off market was a blessing. It forced me to re-evaluate and look at options other than NSAIDs. So glad I did.


Glad you found something that works better for you.  Because the OP was about it being off the market, and I know somebody who is very happy it is back - I thought it prudent to update.


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## GatorBytes

Bone broth - Many reasons to consider as a nutritional suppliment 

Amazing health benefits of bone broth


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## ugavet2012

The specificity of Deramaxx for cox-2 is not all that it is played out to be. There is not much difference in the NSAIDs. The pro for that drug would be once a day dosing

Here is my list of things so far for arthritis that I like to use:
Glucosamine/chondrotin, and I like Dasequin, has a lot of research behind it.
Adequan
Tramadol
Lose dose acetaminophen (Tylenol)
Duralactin
High dose fish oil with vitamin e 
Gabapentin
Keeping them THIN THIN THIN, cannot stress this enough 
Laser therapy 
Prescription joint diets!!!!! Hardly no one uses these, but they are great!!!! Expensive and yes the ingredients are crappy but they do work! Have more fish oil in them than we can reasonably supplement. I have a 23 lb mixed breed on the hills j/d and tramadol (just recently added the tramadol), he's 16.5 now, not one person believes me that he is that old but I've had him since a little puppy, so not guessing on age. He goes on 1-2 hour long walks and hikes and has no problem keeping up. Runs around wrestling with Malinois and GSD almost every single day. Not sore the next day. Never was a hyper or high energy dog, so this is not his "form"of slowing down. I had him xrayed at 15 at the vet school for coughing, the radiologists truly couldn't believe he was that old, no evidence of arthritis at all. I started the food years ago and have always kept him thin and in shape. What I will probably end up having to euthanize him for is likely a condition similar (or same as) DM, he has had toe dragging and weakness in rear end, but no pain at all, for over a year now that keeps progressing although slowly. No spondylosis.


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