# Any breeders PennHip?



## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

I am having my female GSD have the pennHip procedure performed. I feel it is the best indicator for developing hip dsyplacia. 

However, the only breeders I have found that actually do pennHip AND publish the results (good or bad) are white shepherd breeders. This, I applaud.

But, I was wondering if there are any non-white GSD breeders who also pennHip? My feeling is that most breeders are afraid to penn-hip as it is harder to hide bad hips.

Any thoughts on breeders who do, indeed, pennHip?

Thank you for your time.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

I don't Penn-hip, but it has nothing to do with hiding bad hips. My vet was once a partner with Dr. Keller of OFA and is very good at taking x-rays and reading them before they go off to OFA. Penn-Hip is not widely used mostly because it is not widely available, at least not in St. Louis.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

I will agree with Daphne - it is not always easy to find a vet that does PennHip. I will have to travel 80 miles (one way) to have mine done. I think PennHip is a great diagnostic tool and would use it if it was offered closer to me.

With the PennHipp composed of 3 differerent x-rays, plus quantitative measurements, I would contend that it is much harder to hide bad hips using this method. One of the x-rays taken is the same x-ray used for OFA subjective readings.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

It may depend on where you live too, I think it's more prevalent East than it is here on the West Coast. My vet is actually PennHip certified (or was at one time), but he does OFA instead - he feels that it's a better diagnostic tool.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I think there are many reasons a breeder wouldn't choose PennHip that have absolutely nothing to do with trying to hide bad hips.

Availability of someone certified to do it.
Cost, particularly when considering that it would often be done on top of traditional means like OFA.

And just general skepticism. Not everyone believes it is a more accurate or better method than traditional ones. While the proceedure itself and the straight numerical results are more clear cut and objective, the interpretation of the results leaves a lot of room for subjectivity. It supposedly predicts chances of developing DJD in the future. Anything that involves predictions, chances and future is by nature rather subjective. And there is more to HD than just the possible future development of DJD. Showing where a dog falls in terms of percentile for it's breed is questionable in its usefulness with regard to giving breeders good feedback, and of course depends on how many other members of that breed have been PennHipped. There is no searchable database for customers or breeders to refer to when researching lines (so not sure what you mean when you talk about publishing results, as PennHip offers no such service). Thus for many, especially when cost and availability are factored in, it is a tool that doesn't offer enough value to make it worthwhile.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I haven't PennHIP'd any of my dogs but not because I feel it's inferior (actually the opposite it seems). I like OFA because it's a public database, and people are getting smarter about health issues, searching the database before contacting a kennel and purchasing a dog. Also we do a-stamps which are sent to the SV (and also kept in a database, you can get the CD from the SV, and the ZW scores are searchable online). I really don't even care about the OFA or a-stamp official rating, I just feel it's a nice thing to do for the breeder, lest people assume we are trying to "hide hips" by not being in these databases. The person who does the x-rays is an expert radiologist, PennHIP was developed on his research, so I trust his opinions without an official "panel" or certificate. Since the PennHIP is done differently, for costs sakes I just rely on the radiologists opinion as far as HD/no HD and submit to the SV because I have to and the OFA because it's a public database. I'm waiting until Nikon is 24 months to do the a-stamp so I don't have to do another set of x-rays for OFA.

I think it's hard to find a vet that knows how to PennHIP, hard enough to find someone who can do decent x-rays for OFA.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

I had both my GSD's PennHip'd and OFA, and will do the same with Glory when I take her in for her spay surgery! Wanna get all those databases as full of GSD's as I can


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## suden (Jun 5, 2001)

We do OFA and PennHip. PennHip is done at a year with OFA Prelimanary. The only time we redid the PennHip was on a bitch that was just under the median. Her PennHip stayed the same but her OFA was upgraded from Fair to Good

Vikki


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## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

Interesting. I'm on the East Coat and their is a pennHip vet available everywhere. But, it is also important enough to me that I would drive a distance. I am only driving about 1 1/2 hours each way to have it done.

I don't want to get in a big debate about pennHip versus OFA. I, personally, feel pennHip is more accurate. Just my opinion.

Anyway, so nobody knows of any breeder who pennHips?

I might have to breed to a white GSD. I applaud the medical clearances the white GSD breeders perform and how they openly publish those results- good or bad.

This is my first post and I was hoping to find other like minded GSD breeders , in regard to pennHip. Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

I value all of your opinions and I look forward to joining in on more discussions!


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## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

Vikki,

sorry we crossed posts. Do you have stud dogs or a website?

Thanks!


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

If you are looking for a stud dog, what other criteria do you have? 
Type? Bloodlines? Titles? Other health testing? With more info I'm sure there are some members here who may be able to point you to some possible options, but hip certifications alone, never mind what the organization, don't a good stud dog make. I assume you're looking for specific things beyond just that the dog is PennHiped? Other forms of hip certification common for the breed, like OFA and a-stamp, aren't acceptable?


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

Hips are not the only criteria for choosing a stud dog. Pedigree, conformation, trainability, nerve, health -- these should all be taken into account. OFA also maintains a database for elbows, patellas, cardiac, thyroid, and other conditions believed to have a genetic influence.


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## suden (Jun 5, 2001)

Check your PMs
Vikki


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## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

Chris Wild said:


> If you are looking for a stud dog, what other criteria do you have?
> Type? Bloodlines? Titles? Other health testing? With more info I'm sure there are some members here who may be able to point you to some possible options, but hip certifications alone, never mind what the organization, don't a good stud dog make. I assume you're looking for specific things beyond just that the dog is PennHiped? Other forms of hip certification common for the breed, like OFA and a-stamp, aren't acceptable?



Yes, of course. Temperament first; Health second (via pennHip/ofa elbows/etc); Working ability third-with an emphasis on obedience/tracking. As mentioned, I am a HUGE believer in PennHip over any other hip system and really, honestly, feel the breed can be improved by performing this procedure and only breeding dogs with below average breed DIs. I feel incredibly strong about it. But, that's just me. We all have a different focus.... 

Thank you for your reply and best wishes with your dogs!


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## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

suden said:


> Check your PMs
> Vikki


Thanks and I replied!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

ninemaplefarm said:


> I am a HUGE believer in PennHip over any other hip system and really, honestly, feel the breed can be improved by performing this procedure and only breeding dogs with below average breed DIs.


The HIPS can be improved.....the breed as a whole, I don't know....


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## AgileGSD (Jan 17, 2006)

If you find a stud dog you like, you could always offer to pay for the Pennhip.


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## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

AgileGSD said:


> If you find a stud dog you like, you could always offer to pay for the Pennhip.


Ummm...I think not! I am already paying over $500 to pennHip my female as a prelim screen. I still have to repeat at 2 AND do elbows AND do the rest of the CHIC requirements....


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## suden (Jun 5, 2001)

I am already paying over $500 to pennHip ~~~~~

Where are you located????
Vikki


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## ninemaplefarm (Mar 2, 2010)

suden said:


> I am already paying over $500 to pennHip ~~~~~
> 
> Where are you located????
> Vikki


Northeast/East Coast.....


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

ninemaplefarm said:


> Ummm...I think not! I am already paying over $500 to pennHip my female as a prelim screen. I still have to repeat at 2 AND do elbows AND do the rest of the CHIC requirements....


ninemaplefarm, it's a HUGE help to us all if you go up to the User CP and put your GENERAL location (don't need us knocking on your door). That way it will show up with each and every post with your avatar (like my Poconos thingy).

My vet works in Washington, NJ at Pleasant Valley Animal Hospital and I don't think she charges so much for PennHip...

Pleasant Valley Veterinary Services - Google Maps


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I have done Pennhipp, and OFA, and prelimms. I personally think that Pennhipp is more accurate as an indicator for "an individual" dog. But as a breeder this information does not necessarily translate to "that" dog being a likewise producer of those hips in progeny. Things like siblings hips, who the other breeding partner is and hip family history is more important to me than individual hips if they are all in acceptable range. So for personal edification on an individual dog....Pennhipp is super, for breeding programs...Pennhipp is no more beneficial than the others.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Chris & Cliff....I agree.
Liesjers....yep.


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