# phoenix german shepherd



## redtango (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi have anyone heard about this breeder? Phoenix german shepherd?
http://www.phoenixgsd.org/

any input would be helpful. 

thanks


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## angelaw (Dec 14, 2001)

No but 7 males 8 females, that's alot of dogs, imo. Been doing german showlines for 9 yrs, american lines before that. I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean anything.


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## mkennels (Feb 12, 2008)

by the dogs they are very nice looking and he does compete with them seen some top handlers on one of the females


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## SouthernThistle (Nov 16, 2005)

MAIN:

1. The breeder isn't trying to hide the hip ratings of his/her dogs. That information can be found in a chart at the bottom indicating only one has "Fair" hips while the others have "Good" and "Excellent" ratings.

2. "Competition on a national and international scale."

FORUM:

Basically just a blog/rant page including "What is wrong with the German Shepherd breed today?" which is an interesting read.

ABOUT:

Has been breeding and showing German Shepherds for, apparently, 42 years.

STUDS:

Looks like his main "using" males are titled, and all are shown or in the process of being shown.

BITCHES:

Looks like his main bitches are also titled, and all are either shown/placed or in the process of being shown.

PUPPIES:

"Please remember, any breeder should be proud of the fact that all their breeding stock has been x-ray certified by either the OFA, or the SV. A true German import brought into this country after the age of one will already have his SV hip rating."

"Of even greater importance, some breeders like to advertise their dogs as being bigger than the standards set forth by both the AKC and the SV. Bigger is rarely better when the statistics on the OFFA.org registry indicate that most oversized dogs, of any breed, have a preponderance of bad hips."

------------------
Overall assessment without actually knowing this breeder nor dogs produced:

Seems pretty darn straight forward with what they do, dogs' hip ratings, titles, show history, testimonials from customers, offers a "read before you buy" type of list on the forum page, is against "oversized" breeding and appears to be following the breed standard as far as GSDs are concerned. 

IMHO, seems to be pretty good breeders.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

This person was actually recommended to me when I was looking at showlines. While he didn't try to sell me one of his own dogs, his overall attitude was too pushy for me. Not rude, just pushy, and I didn't care for it. 

His overall comments are indeed very straight forward, which I liked...his V1 bitch does indeed exhibit a nice flying trot with a MUCH better shoulder than most I see...however, she's roached in motion, and while her foot may be in front of her nose in that picture, it's where the foot LANDS that matters.

His dogs weren't what I was looking for stylistically, so I passed. Others may like the dogs though.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Frank Tate is an AKC judge - has been in the ring/breed forever! He breeds European lines for the AKC ring and shows in the SV style shows too.....he has shown in at least one, if not more, Sieger shows. 


I ***believe**** (ie not 100% sure!!!) that there are quite a few breeding dogs who are NOT on the website....I knew a few people who dealt with him, and have talked to him a couple of times....he is a very very commercial breeder and broker and goes to Germany to buy dogs for resale...I knew a couple people who have bought dogs/pups from him....I would consider him to produce a dog more in the type that an AKC showperson would be comfortable with based on the ones I have seen personally.

Lee


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## redtango (Apr 7, 2009)

thank you all so much for the commend. I really appreciate your inputs!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

From the website..."_*THE OPINION OF LICENSED JUDGES IS THE ONLY ASSURANCE YOU CAN GET OF A DOGS VALUE,* NOT FROM THE OPINION OF THEIR OWNERS, YOUR NEIGHBOR, OR SOME SALESMAN IN A PET STORE*."*_

I don't know anything about his dogs or breeding program but I strongly disagree with the 1st part of the above statement. Dog shows have served dogs poorly, which is not a good reflection on 'licensed judges'. Health & longevity are disregarded. Even temperament is often ignored. Structural extremes are promoted & rewarded despite the debilitating effect on the dogs & the interference with natural canine abilities. It's both sad & ironic the damage the GSD, truly the 'supreme working breed', has suffered at the hands of the 'licensed judges' who seem to be all about fads & styles rather than DOGS.

Any show breeder who's an exemplary breeder is (IMO) a good breeder despite being a judge, not because s/he is a judge.

Also from his website..._"This is so important especially when selecting your next pet. You and your family will hopefully spend the _
_next 10 years of your life with this dog and you want it to have the best temperment possible. The term _
_"pet" should never have to mean poor quality or bad breeding."_

IF 10 yrs is 'hopefully' the life expectancy of his dogs I'd look elsewhere for longer lived lines.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

RubyTuesday said:


> From the website..."_*THE OPINION OF LICENSED JUDGES IS THE ONLY ASSURANCE YOU CAN GET OF A DOGS VALUE,* NOT FROM THE OPINION OF THEIR OWNERS, YOUR NEIGHBOR, OR SOME SALESMAN IN A PET STORE*."*_
> 
> I don't know anything about his dogs or breeding program but I strongly disagree with the 1st part of the above statement. Dog shows have served dogs poorly, which is not a good reflection on 'licensed judges'. Health & longevity are disregarded. Even temperament is often ignored. Structural extremes are promoted & rewarded despite the debilitating effect on the dogs & the interference with natural canine abilities. It's both sad & ironic the damage the GSD, truly the 'supreme working breed', has suffered at the hands of the 'licensed judges' who seem to be all about fads & styles rather than DOGS.
> 
> ...


Agree. Of course an AKC Judge is going to say that that is the only way to measure a dog's quality. I would not discount him because he is a judge, I just would not give the conformation titles the same weight as I would someone who is not a judge. If I was a newbie, coming into it though, I would probably think that getting a dog from a judge would be a super high quality, excellent, can't-believe-I-got-this-chance sort of thing.


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