# Continuing liquid stool...plz read



## ahowe1

I previously posted about my dog jaxson having liquid stool. I was told I needed to do more research. I understand. Right now I am more concerned that this is the 2nd day of liquid stool. Can you plz read my previous post and giveme your thoughts. How long can this go on before it becomes a serious issue with his health? What should I do?


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## Linzi

I read your other post,i thought you were supposed to feed human quality raw food, due to the risk of parasites and bacteria.I also read that you gave him ice cubes when fasting,you should never withold water from a dog with diarrhea as they dehydrate very quicky.What have you been feeding him?.You could try some scrambled egg and plain full fat goat's yogurt for now..If no improvement very soon you should take him,plus a sample to the vet.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Here's what I would do. Withhold all food for at LEAST 6 hours. You need to give his digestive tract time to recover.

Then I would give him about 1/2 can of PLAIN canned pumpkin - and NOTHING ELSE.

Wait about 2 hours to see how that goes through him and then give him the other half of the can.

If all goes well after another 3-4 hours you can slowly add back in his normal food.

I'm going to check your other post to reply there as well.


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## ahowe1

water was available to him at all times in one bowl and I had ice in the other bowl as an option.


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## carmspack

slippery elm is very soothing .
Carmen


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## lhczth

Have you ruled out some type of parasite?


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## ahowe1

*update*

gave 1/3 can of pumpkin. we've gone from liquidy stool to puddingish so I just gave 2nd 1/3 of can. As far as parasite. I had him on Diatomaceous Earth so I don't think so....The big issue started Monday night after the meat veggie mix meal...How quickly would something like that take hold? The meat was in a frozen block so I'm thinking anything in it would be dead? The veggies were from my bin...I peeled away anything on the lettuce that looked no so fresh.

How long afterthis adminstering of pumpkin should I give him the last 1/3 of the can. I have oatmeal and boiled hamburger 50/50 mixed and ready to go. my plan is to go to that after the can of pumpkin is gone. Then phase out the hamburger with Bravo Original Beef but slightly cook it and use with oatmeal. Then slowly phase out the cooking and the oatmeal til all I am givng him is raw. Does this sound like a good plan? I need to go online and order the bravo right now so i can get it overnighted.


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## malinois_16

Dogs are carnivores and do not need veggies...that could be whats causing the runs..


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## ahowe1

*update*

2nd "dose" of pumpkin administered. one hour later pumpkin colored liquidy poop instead of green  should i move on to a hamburger oatmeal (sensitive to rice) mixture at this point or hit the kaopectate? 

Carmen, I gave 3 caps of slippery elm twice last night. Made him very calm but I don't think it did much. Does it take a couple days?

I know dogs don't need veggies but even the most stripped down bravo chub offering has celery and carrot in it...

On a side note He drinks water, wants to eat and he has plenty of energy and wants to play.

I need a plan to move forward. I am wondering if I should make a vet appt for Monday just in case.


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## malinois_16

I would. He could have giardia or coccidia. Theres a few more protozoa they can get. In fecals they mostly just check for worms and giardia...anything else has to be sent out. 

If mine has the liquid runs for more then 3 days he goes to the vet. Mine had it for 3 days in February and he was eating, drinking and playing fine...he has coccidia. Then he got clostridium.


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## neiltus

ahowe1 said:


> 2nd "dose" of pumpkin administered. one hour later pumpkin colored liquidy poop instead of green  should i move on to a hamburger oatmeal (sensitive to rice) mixture at this point or hit the kaopectate?
> 
> Carmen, I gave 3 caps of slippery elm twice last night. Made him very calm but I don't think it did much. Does it take a couple days?
> 
> I know dogs don't need veggies but even the most stripped down bravo chub offering has celery and carrot in it...
> 
> On a side note He drinks water, wants to eat and he has plenty of energy and wants to play.
> 
> I need a plan to move forward. I am wondering if I should make a vet appt for Monday just in case.


I would get a sample of morning poo no matter how runny and store it in the fridge (not freezer) and then bring that poo in to the vet when you go in. Easier to pick up coccidia in the sample.

Freezing it makes it useless.


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## ahowe1

I wont be able to get a sample to the vet until Monday. In the meantime. What should I try out of the list of options I listed? or if there is another suggestion....


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## ahowe1

Just gave him 1/3 total cup of this combo - boiled hamburger pumpkin and cooked oatmeal (he listed sensitive to rice and potato so I'm going oatmeal)..... we will see how that sits.


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## ahowe1

1am - small amt of brownish /pumpkin colored consistency like wet baby food

415 am - two attempts to go:
1st attemmpt nothing 
2nd was small amt (no more than 1 tsp) clear and brownish water with what could have been a worm or that clear white stretchy stuff that surrounds meat muscle (fascia?) i inspected it with a stick to the point where destroyed it by accident.

gave slippery elm at 430 am


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## ahowe1

7am - 1/3 cup maybe brownish/pumpkin colored stool that is mucousy but not clear.....(maybe due to slippery elm?)

fed half cup oatmeal and hamburger only no pumpkin

contacting vet today to coordinate stool drop off


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## ahowe1

*another update*

talked to vets office. prescribing metronidazole 10 day course. continue bland diet. my vet in on tuesday and will call me.


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## vomlittlehaus

The metonidazole is for the increase in the bacteria in his colon. Which is a normal prescription. I have always just used green tripe to get them back on track. Not much for nutritional value, but having diarrhea isnt either. Usually within 36 hrs the diarrhea is gone and I very slowly (very slowly) add in their usual diet. Your in NH, you should be able to find green tripe from an Oma's distributor. It comes in a 5lb tube and is frozen. You can thaw in fridge and break apart. Put some of the frozen parts back in freezer for next time you need it. Works like a charm!!


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## malinois_16

Okay, I would also give a probiotic 2-3 hours after the last dose of metro. Metro aka Flagyl kills both good and bad bacteria in the gut and if your not replacing the good bacteria, you may end up with worse issues like I had. Had I of used the probiotic the first round of Metro I never would of ended up with a bout of clostridium (which is basically a bad bacteria that is there in healthy amounts but his had a party because there was no good bacteria replacing the ones that the flagyl killed)

Thats what I would do personally.


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## WVGSD

My GSD, Max, has small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and is treated with Tylan powder as he does not tolerate Metronidazole. I give him a probiotic about three hours after every dose of Tylan and you might want to do this for your boy. Give the Metronidazole amd, several hours later, give him a probiotic to help replenish his gut with good bacteria to fight the diarrhea.

I use _Proviable DC_ (diarrhea control) priobiotic and am very happy with it so far.


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## malinois_16

I have had success with the Walmart brand probiotic. But everyone is different. Try what you want. The powder may be easier to sprinkle on food but I use pill...


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## ahowe1

*annother update*

was going to obtain and drop off stool sample (to rule out parasites as suggested) for vet but the meds already have kicked in and he is not having any stool. I can still hear his belly gurgling though. Todays mission will be to find probiotics and enzymes. Thanks for your suggestions on that.


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## malinois_16

Sometimes the Metro will make them not go for a couple days. I would have the vet send the stool off to the lab to have tested for everything. Vets can only test for certain things. Will cost more, but more gets tested.


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## ahowe1

*going forward*

OK. Well, Jaxson still hasn't gone which is fine. But I want to be ready for the next phase. 
I was in the midst of transitioning him to raw when this happened. How should I proceed? Let's say his stool is normal, the diarrhea goes away and there's no parasites. He's currently eating cooked oatmeal and boiled hamburger. 

Per the suggestion I am thinking of ordering this pack of enzymes and probiotics. Can you tell me your thoughts on them and how to continue the transition?

The Miracle Pack for Dogs and Cats


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## Lauri & The Gang

That product has Beet Root Fiber in it - which is a stool hardener. I wouldn't bother with it.

I recommend the B-Naturals products. I would look at their digestive aids.

Also - in looking at the B-Naturals website I remembered - you can give L-Glutamine to help the digestive tract. You give 500 mgs per 30 pounds of body weight. You can get that stuff at almost any grocery or drug store.


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## Lauri & The Gang

I tried to go back a search but I don't see the following info anywhere so please post it here ...

How old is your dog?
How much do they weigh?
How much were you feeding per day (break it out by RMBs, MM, OM and other)?

The #1 most common cause of loose stools in raw fed dogs is OVERfeeding so the above info will help me see if you are good with the amounts.


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## ahowe1

Thanks for the post Laurie.
Jaxson is 8. He bloated at 2 yrs and had the surgery where they tacked his stomach down. I feel all his allergy/issues started after that. 

He weighed 95 before the runs hit. He's looking quite trim at the moment as you can imagine.

What was I doing before this happened? I was transitioning him to raw from kibble and canned. From the Bravo guide I figured out he needs 1.75-2lbs of food. I started by replacing the canned with lean beef which was about 1 or 2 oz. and the rest was kibble to start. After 3 or so days I gave him a marrow bone with most of the marrow taken out. We were on day 7 and I was up to about 1/2 and 1/2 kibble and beef. Then I ran out of beef. That's when I went to butcher and he gave me his "beef blend pet food" he said it was meat, fat, organ but no bone. So, that day I gave him kibble only in the morning but I threw some kale and garlic in it. He had 1/2 a beef neck for lunch and then I gave him about 1 cup of the pet food blend from the butcher but I pureed carrot, celery and lettuce into it. These were the fillers I had on hand and were not on his list of foods that he is sensitive to (per Glacier Peak allerg testing)I'm talking 1/8 cup of the veg maximum. That night is the night he woke up with the runs. Now that I'm typing it I can see that there are a ton of wild cards with what I did so it will be really hard to tell what triggered it. 

As far as the probiotics and enzymes. I went to the b-naturals website as suggested. You clearly know more than I do but the Berts Digestion Blend has chicken liver nd yeast in it and my guy is allergic to chicken and I have been told by the Glacier Peak Holistic allergy test that he has an overabundance of yeast in his system. The Berts Digestive Enzymes is backordered til August 15.  and the Berts Ultra Probioitic has Dried Enterococcus Faecium which I have read on the board is not great (can't remember why) for dogs.... 

Maybe I could do the Probiotic Miracle and then find another enzyme? From what I am reading I need these in place if I'm going to transition him properly and prevent a problem from the meds he is taking.


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## malinois_16

Go to Walmart and buy their brand of probiotic. It worked for mine. I got 60 caps for $4.69. Make sure you keep it in the fridge. I dont use enzymes because they are plant based and my dog isnt trying to digest plants so therefore doesnt need the enzyme. I havent found one thats not deprived from plants.


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## Lauri & The Gang

ahowe1 said:


> That's when I went to butcher and he gave me his "beef blend pet food" he said it was meat, fat, organ but no bone. So, that day I gave him kibble only in the morning but I threw some kale and garlic in it.


Do you know how much fat is in the blend? If it's more than about 5-10% it's probably the cause of the runs.

If he was my dog here's what I would do. First I would stop the Metronidazole. It is nasty stuff (more on that in a thread I'm going to post in the Health section).

I would fast him for 24 hours. Nothing in but liquids. I would give him 1000 mgs of L-Glutamine twice a day (yes, more than the suggested dose but his digestive tract needs it) for at least the next 3-5 days.

After 24 hours I would feed him 4 ounces of chicken or turkey necks, wait 6 hours then feed him another 8 ounces of necks. Wait another 6 hours and feed him 8 ounces of necks plus 4 ounces of boneless meat - chicken or turkey.

The idea is to start with minimal variety to allow his system to adjust.

If everything is still going good I would start the next day by feeding him 10 ounces of necks followed by a mid-day meal of 8 ounces of necks. Dinner would be 10 ounces of boneless meat.

Day 3, if all is going well, would be the start to his NORMAL routine.

If he weighs 95 pounds (or around there) and he has a normal activity level he should be getting 2.5% of his weigh in food. That comes out to 2 pounds 6 ounces.

I would give him any chicken RMBs (16 ounces), Muscle meats (19 ounces) and Organ Meats (start at 1 ounce and work up to 2 over 7 days).

I would stay away from beef neck bones as they are very hard and can be difficult for some dogs to eat and digest. Any chicken bone part is a great starting place.

After 2 weeks on this routine I would add *ONE *new protein source. Adding a single new source gives you the ability to see if it affects him. Always give each new protein source a good 2 weeks before you add another.


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## ahowe1

*sounds good...*

Laurie that sounds like a good plan but according to Glacier Peak Allergy testing he allergic to chicken, turkey chicken eggs and organ meat of fowl. He can do pork, bison, beef, buffalo, duck, lamb, pheasant, moose, ostrich, emu, pretty much any kind of fish....How could it be adapted?

I'll read your post on the medication. The vet is going to call me tomorrow to check in. I'm still waiting for Jaxson's first movement.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Well, you could use duck.

Personally I don't believe in those allergy tests. I fostered a Lab that was tested for allergies and was supposedly positive for chicken and beef (along with a host of other things). I switched him to raw using chicken and he improved 90%.


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## Lauri & The Gang

Forgot to add - pork and lamb necks aren't as tough as beef necks so those would be another option.


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## ahowe1

*update*

after 4 days on oatmeal and hamburger and metronidazole, i called the vet and she said it's too long without a bm and told me to discontinue it. I was glad because he was behaving oddly - lethargy etc. So after 1 missed dose he started acting like his normal self. This morning we had 3 tbsp pumpkin added to the oatmeal and hamburger we had a bm. YAY. It was the same orangey color but definitely came out the right shape, kinda bulky and spongey. I'm going to drop it off at the vet's today. We will see what the next one looks like so I can start transtioning him to raw. Unfortunately, I now have and extremely itchy dog with hot spots again and his eyes are very mucousy.


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## WVGSD

Perhaps he has an intolerance to beef/hamburger or the oats? Your description sounds like an allergic reaction.


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