# Child eater!



## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

Our three year old GSD is hostile to children! As of last night, Kana demonstrated aggression towards a child for the third time. No damage yet, one nip that left a mark, but enough that we must correct the behavior. Every incident has been very sudden and without provocation that we can tell. Why this is I do not know.  The only thing I can figure is that when she was between three and six months old, we had a neighbor boy that we caught taunting her and spraying her with the hose over the fence. He did this multiple times. In every other respect she is an outstanding, well behaved girl.
How would you go about correcting this behavior? :help:


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## Capone22 (Sep 16, 2012)

I am sure you will get a lot of advice on this, but first and foremost you need to stop allowing her around children until you can get this under control. It has happened several times, after the first time she should have been on leash or put away when children are near. 

I would recommend looking into a trainer who is very familiar with german shepherds ASAP. I personally wouldn't go at this alone.


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## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*Separation*

We will have the grandkids quite a bit over the next few months, and we will keep her seperated from them. It is a problem because she will be seperate from the entire family. I worry this will make it worse. I will look into a pro trainer. Never needed one before, but this is a big problem, so it may be time.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Aggression towards children is one of the biggest red flags on temperament. Crating or kenneling when the kids are around is absolutely essential. I don't know whether any trainer can ever guarantee they can fix this...

Good luck!

Lee


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## FrankieC (Aug 15, 2012)

> The only thing I can figure is that when she was between three and six months old, we had a neighbor boy that we caught taunting her and spraying her with the hose over the fence. He did this multiple times.


Dogs keep score based on my experience. If he was taunted in that manner I have no doubt that was a contributing factor. 

I recall one kid taunting our dog (American Eskimo) with rocks and kicking the fence (verified by neighbours on a few occassions). At the first opportunity (weeks later!!) he bolted out the front door and went straight for a kid that was the same size and happened to be in front of the culprit's house. He went airborn and bit his upper arm good. An innocent child was bitten and my dog was quarantined.  

As was suggested, get on this ASAP.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

This isn't something you can fix, but it is something you can manage. You can teach your dog to leave the kids alone, but only so long as the dog is right next to you and preferably on leash. Even so, you will never be able to trust the dog around children. Best bet is to crate the dog whenever you have kids over, and to keep the kids away from the crated dog so the dog isn't taunted.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Aggression towards children is one of the biggest red flags on temperament. Crating or kenneling when the kids are around is absolutely essential. I don't know whether any trainer can ever guarantee they can fix this...
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Lee


I agree with this. I _would also not get to hung up on the cause_. The dog is the way it is now.

I had a BC rescue that bit one of my son's friends and later someone else.
Managing a dog like that is time consuming and a constant worry.

We tried two behaviorists and trainers but I never trusted that dog.

I made up my mind I would never put myself or family through that again.
It's also a tremendous liability.

There are those who will work with dogs like this and manage them for life.
It's a choice though, and not to be taken lightly.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Philip - because many people come on to this forum to learn, can you describe what happened when your dog bit the child?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

You have grand children. Which, I am guessing, all of your children are out of the house or at least adults? 

If this dog is fine in every other way, just build her a nice kennel area in your basement or garage, or yard. Something you can lock. And put her there when the kids come over. If you are likely to go where kids are with her use a muzzle. Put a muzzle on her when you take her to the vet, if there are no kids, take it off. 

If you feel confident that she can have a great life without kids, give it to her. The rest of the time, she should be fine in her kennel. 

Not every dog is a social butterfly. Not every dog is good with kids. Don't teach her protection sports, don't breed her, don't let her bite children, but there is no reason, that with some basic safeguards, you cannot manage her so that she has a very nice life with you, and children are safe. 

If you had children living in the home, I think my advice would probably be way different. Even if a dog can be taught to leave your kids alone, your kids will have friends, and friends might not be off-limits -- much more difficult to ensure that everyone remain intact.


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## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*Thank everyone!*

We do not have any children residing at home, just grandchildren that visit. We are going to keep her away from all children from now on. She is outstanding in every other respect. I do not intend to re-home her as she can be managed. We have a big yard and we can easily keep her from the children. I will get a muzzle and use it when I take her out and about. As far as the incidents and what lead up to them; The first was a small girl that crouched down, stared at her intently and approached. The second was when a 2 year old stepped on her tail. That was the bite. The third last night was out of the blue. The boy, about 4 or 5 was just standing with his hands at his side.

I thank all of you and will continue to monitor the thread for more.

I do not want to give the wrong impression, she is very sweet. She is aloof with strangers, appropriately aggresive towards intruders without biting or attacking as long as they make no aggresive moves toward them or the family, very affectionate with the family and velcro when it comes to me.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

FrankieC said:


> Dogs keep score based on my experience. If he was taunted in that manner I have no doubt that was a contributing factor.
> 
> I recall one kid taunting our dog (American Eskimo) with rocks and kicking the fence (verified by neighbours on a few occassions). At the first opportunity (weeks later!!) he bolted out the front door and went straight for a kid that was the same size and happened to be in front of the culprit's house. He went airborn and bit his upper arm good. An innocent child was bitten and my dog was quarantined.
> 
> As was suggested, get on this ASAP.


Yes, I also think dogs keep score. Recently there were two separate incidents with little boys about 4 years old on those really small, mini bicycles. Although these young ones can physically rides these bikes, they are too immature to think about where to ride them and almost rode into Molly, we had to keep moving away. So last week we were sitting in a touristy spot watching the sunset and Molly saw a 3-4 year old boy and got scared. Yet another thing to work on, ugg! At least she wanted to move away and leave the area rather than lunge toward the child.

Although it is sad you will miss your dog during family time, it's better to be too cautious than risk a bite. Also remember this happens to many dogs of many breeds. There are two different young couples in my neighborhood expecting a baby. One has a bulldog, the other a schnauzer. They both know that even though their dogs are excellent with them, a baby might be another story, and have mentioned they've read to never leave the child alone with the baby and the bulldog family is getting private lessons to get the dog really well trained.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

FrankieC said:


> Dogs keep score based on my experience. If he was taunted in that manner I have no doubt that was a contributing factor.
> 
> I recall one kid taunting our dog (American Eskimo) with rocks and kicking the fence (verified by neighbours on a few occassions). At the first opportunity (weeks later!!) he bolted out the front door and went straight for a kid that was the same size and happened to be in front of the culprit's house. He went airborn and bit his upper arm good. An innocent child was bitten and my dog was quarantined.
> 
> As was suggested, get on this ASAP.


Not picking on you at all, just using this post as a segway. Aggression toward children, "warranted" or not, is a HUGE red flag for temperament. I would never trust a dog who showed aggression toward children and all the stories of dogs hating children because they were teased by them in a past life is really just an excuse for bad temperament, imho. 

I'm not proud to say my own just-turned-3yr-old boy has been........less than sweet to my dogs on occasion, especially during tantrums. They have NEVER exhibited the slightest bit of aggression toward him or any other child before or since. When he gets way out of line, they walk away. I get on him HARD about such behavior, but the point is, *a dog with solid temperament knows a child is a child * regardless of the brat's behavior, and they mustn't react to the child's acts as they would/should/could an adult.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> The first was a small girl that crouched down, *stared at her intently* and approached


I can tell you that this kind of behavior from a child makes dogs extremely uncomfortable, and it's not surprising the dog would react that way.

Unless the child is taught to approach dogs another way, this child may in fact be bitten, if not by your dog, by another dog.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

msvette2u said:


> I can tell you that this kind of behavior from a child makes dogs extremely uncomfortable, and it's not surprising the dog would react that way.
> 
> Unless the child is taught to approach dogs another way, this child may in fact be bitten, if not by your dog, by another dog.


Sure, this is perceived as a threat/challenge...............to a dog who isn't wired correctly and can't tell the difference between, say, an adult man or threatening animal and a small girl. Children behave in all sorts of ways that *can* make a not-so-temperamentally-correct dog act out. They stumble, scream, run, walk funny, step on tails, stare directly, hug too tightly, loom over, etc. This doesn't excuse the dog. The more excuses are made for weak/poor temperament, the more children and others will be bitten and/or attacked.


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## PatchonGSD (Jun 27, 2012)

> The first was a small girl that crouched down, stared at her intently and approached


When we were children, my younger brother was bitten twice (not horribly) by two different dogs in the face for this exact behavior. I would address this with the little girl for her own safety.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

vom Eisenherz said:


> Aggression toward children, "warranted" or not, is a HUGE red flag for temperament.
> 
> I *a dog with solid temperament knows a child is a child * regardless of the brat's behavior, and they mustn't react to the child's acts as they would/should/could an adult.


I have to agree with this. I don't have children living in my household, but they do come and visit often and my GSD is WONDERFUL with them. The kids know what is acceptable behavior. The youngest one will play with the GSD for hours, brush her, then fall asleep cuddled up with her. This behavior has transferred to outside the home to. A couple weeks ago a kid that was about 4 years old came running at mine full force, stopped right in front of her and they were face to face, my dog kissed her. The little girl started giggling, it was cute, but I did warn her about approaching dogs in that manner, because she will probably get bit one day. Last week we were at a Pet Expo and as we were walking past a little one, about 2 years old, my dog leaned over and gave a kiss..the kid didn't expect it and turned around and had this dog in her face..I apologized because I could have been watching my dog better. As long as the dog can be managed it can work, the problem becomes managing everyone else...like making sure they don't go near the crate, try touching the dog, etc.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> This doesn't excuse the dog.


Where, in my post, did I say the dog is excused? I don't recall saying that at all. 

On the other hand, you're going to have a very loooong job ahead of you if you dispose of all the dogs with a poor temperament.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

If you think isolating your dog will make things worse, then don't do it. But you know your dog best. With my "child eater", I could tell him to stay on his bed and tell people not to pester him and that was enough. I didn't need a muzzle, but maybe you do. Or maybe your dog will break the stay and need to be crated. Or maybe the children will ignore your request to leave the dog alone. I think it's only a management issue, and you'll find a way. Good luck, I know how awful this can be.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

vom Eisenherz said:


> Sure, this is perceived as a threat/challenge...............to a dog who isn't wired correctly and can't tell the difference between, say, an adult man or threatening animal and a small girl. Children behave in all sorts of ways that *can* make a not-so-temperamentally-correct dog act out. They stumble, scream, run, walk funny, step on tails, stare directly, hug too tightly, loom over, etc. This doesn't excuse the dog. The more excuses are made for weak/poor temperament, the more children and others will be bitten and/or attacked.


When I was younger we got a German Shepherd/St Bernard(Mom was St Bernard and very loving/Dad was the GSD and borderline vicious). This dog was huge, loved us, but was not fond of smaller kids or other dogs outside the home(he went through a window to get a dog once). This could be understandable because he was never really around them(small kids). When the dog was well into his senior years(about 14 years old) I had my son. Well one day when my son was about 9 months old he decided to climb out of his crib, go over a baby gate, and climb about 15 stairs...all of this while I was on the top floor cleaning. He was sleeping when I started. Imagine my surprise when I found my son next to this dog, hitting him in a happy way, laughing...oh yes my son was excited to be by this dog and he was probably doing this to the dog for about 10 minutes. The look on this dogs face was the scariest thing I ever saw. I couldn't breath I was so scared, my sons face was right by this dogs face. I slowly approached them, talking to the dog the whole time, telling him he was a good boy. It felt like forever and it was only 10 ft. Once I got close enough I scooped up my son and cried, because that dog could have killed him in a second. I believe 100% that the dogs respect for us as a family played a big role in that. As old and grumpy as that dog was, he still behaved. May that dog rest in peace and know how forever grateful I am to him.


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## Jenna&Me (Sep 27, 2012)

Llombardo how scary for you

Bet that added quite a number of grey hairs


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

while I don't condone dogs biting kids, nor excuse it, lets be real, there are ALOT of dogs, otherwise good dogs, that do not like small kids. We certainly can't say that "every" dog out there that doesn't like kids isn't 'wired' right. 

If you know your dog isn't good with kids, it can be easily managed but one has to be diligent about it.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Not liking and not tolerating are worlds apart. Dogs are allowed their preferences. But dogs who attack tiny children for acting like tiny children are not stable imnsho. If people choose to enjoy the company of that type of dog, so be it. It's their responsibility to keep them safe and everyone around them safe. 

My dogs don't all "like" little kids. Before I had my son, they were literally never around them. My family was freaking out...I wasn't worried. A good, solid, stable dog will accept a small child regardless of previous exposure. JMO.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Disclaimer: this is a statement in response to the thread, not specifically the OP - 

Nothing excuses aggression towards a child. NOTHING.

The total point of selective breeding, of breed tests, schutzhund, etc. is to breed solid temperament. The dog must have the genetics to DISCERN a threat. The dog must have the genetics to only show aggression appropriately. Whether these genetics are a happy accident or selected, stable solid dogs do not aggress towards small children. 

I do not have small children - any children - and my dogs are rarely exposed to them. The secretary at the Scotch company had 3 small ones, when they came into the office, Kelsey and Kyra gravitated to them like bees to honey, loved them...Kyra well bred, Kelsey an oversized black and silver. Kelsey, a WGSL/domestic cross....loved them....would totally ignore me and stay with those kids every minute they were there, giving me a big smile and doggy finger if I called her...I believe she would willingly have gone home and lived with those kids if I had let her. Kyra, retired, would go to a mountain campground on weekends and spend the whole time being dragged around by a 7 year old child, who now drags around Kyra's granddaughter Bengal (and this summer my puppy Kyra was there too while I was in the hospital)...all these dogs love kids.

At an AKC ob gathering, a child about 7 or 8 ran up from behind and threw her arms around Csabre - this is the FIRST time I ever saw an interaction with a child - Csabre turned and gave her a big slurrp. Same thing happened at Niagrara Falls - kids ran up and started putting hands on her, same reaction.....this is a big black sable female who has more social aggression than any dog I know....she adores kids and will suck them in to pet her when she sees them.

In an old USA magazine, there was an article that was an interview with Walter Martin (maybe Hermann) - in it he was quoted as saying that any dog who showed aggression towards a child did not see the next sunrise. This was one behavior not tolerated and to be wiped out of the gene pool. A good friend who spent 25 years in Germany in the military who trained dogs mentioned just the other day that any dog showing aggression towards a child was culled. 

While I do not cite these expecting anyone to take drastic actions, I do not believe that making excuses and saying these dogs are showing aggression because they "keep track" of behaviors by children and are reactive for that reason. Aggression towards children at the very least should keep the dog confined around them, should definitely keep them out of the gene pool.

lee


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Yes.:thumbup:


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

This thread was not about breeding though-its about someone who has a dog that does not like children-child eater sounds like an over statement for what the dog does-I think seeking advice from a trainer who can observe the dog in real life-and crating when children are around-I do believe that a dog with a good temperment should tolerate children-and sometimes they have a lot of tolerance-but I think it also a 2 way street -when I was a child and we got a dog I got nipped one day-I was hugging the dog too hard-and my father said I deserved it (the dog was a terrier)- children have to learn how to behave around dogs as well

Don't think biting always indicates bad temperment either -my co-workers daughter accidentally stepped on a 17 year old dog and was bitten-the dog was in pain


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I think it also a 2 way street -when I was a child and we got a dog I got nipped one day-I was hugging the dog too hard-and my father said I deserved it (the dog was a terrier)- children have to learn how to behave around dogs as well


This. I'm so tired of people making excuses for_ kids_!

Just because a dog "should" do this and "shouldn't" do that, don't place the entire responsibility on the dog, when dogs often make bad choices. Maybe it "shouldn't" but it _did_, in this case. While you're sitting around pontificating about proper GSD temperament, there's a crisis in this home, and talking about what the dog should or shouldn't be doing is not helpful.

When I was growing up we had a little dog that would nip at unruly kids, nothing wrong there. We grew up with this dog, she was fine with us, we'd even dress her up!
But if we were to get nipped or bitten by anything, be it dog or cat, it was our fault, not the animals.

To the OP (and others with kids and dogs) here, check this site out - Family Paws-New parent classes dog and baby


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree liking and tolerating are two different things. And I agree with this below: 



> Just because a dog "should" do this and "shouldn't" do that, don't place the entire responsibility on the dog, when dogs often make bad choices.


The OP's dog , again lets be real, if this dog wanted to "eat the child" it would have done alot more damage, HOWEVER, and Read this> I am not saying that's an excuse or blaming the child or think the child deserved it, or etc etc etc. 

I am saying this dog is giving off warnings of what could come, which could be worse

With that, I think the best bet for the OP is to get a GSD Savvy behaviorist in there to access the situation and go from there. Again, manageable, since it sounds like this dog is otherwise fine but I probably would never trust the dog around small kids.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Almost any dog is manageable if you lock them up, crate them, keep them away from children or people in general.

If people want to risk the liability and live like that for maybe 10 to 15 years, go for it.

I don't have dogs to live like that. 

Accidents happen. Someone forgets to lock the pen or guests show up unexpectedly. Neighborhood kids decide to cut across the yard.
Many other possible sources of accidental management problems.

So speaking only for myself I don't want a dog like that regardless of the reasons the dog is that way. 

I feel for those dogs but not enough to keep one.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I agree with you Andy, HUGE liability, face it, you (general you) could lose your house, lose everything over a dog bite, see it the news all the time

No one has to choose to live with a dog that bites kids, but unfortunately there are alot of them out there whether we choose to believe it or not, and unfortunately your right, it only takes once to slip up and have something happen.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think it is a calculated risk you can take, if you do not have children. This dog is three. So figure 6-9 years, they need to be vigilent. Keep a crate in the living room and crate the dog before opening the door. Muzzle the dog before taking it out the front. Supervise the dog in the fenced back yard, and kennel the dog if you are going to have company. 

You can do it. I think that we generally don't lose our homes over a dog bite because most people have a mortgage and with a mortgage, you need insurance. What might happen is that after having a bite, insurance companies will deny you coverage if you do not get rid of the dog. At that point, you might have to make a terrible decision. And, maybe, that decision will be less hard to make, knowing that you were unable to prevent something from happening, but not less hard to carry out.

As for insurance, generally whenever you make a claim on your insurance, regardless of the cause, they might cancel you. Water damage, they pay for the damage and then they will cancel you. Frankly, if my house isn't in ashes, I will not make an insurance claim. A tree fell taking down my utility pole and hitting my front door. I could have made a claim to replace the pole and remove the tree and fix my front door -- no way, they would probably cancel me. 

But, here's the thing, rehoming this dog is not a good idea. The choices are to try and manage the otherwise great dog, and protect it from itself. Or, you can put her down. I don't think you will lose your house because your dog bites some kid. You haven't yet and the dog has nipped some child. You definitely have a wake-up call. 

A lot of single people, like me, or retired folks, like my parents can manage such a dog because we do not have little children treating our homes like their homes. We do not have children running through our yards, or walking into our houses. We have plenty of warning that people are coming over, and even it they do "drop by" we have enough time to put the dog up if we need to. 

I think you have to assess your own situation, to see whether your home is Grand Central Station, or if you have visitors a few times a month for a few hours. Is your yard accessible to neighborhood children, do they walk through it? Or do you have a solidly fenced yard where there really aren't any kids trundling through? Do you think you can manage the dog and keep it from contact with kids. 

If 80% of your time at home is spent with only adults, then 80% of the time, this dog can be a great companion and enjoy your companionship. 20% of the time the dog gets put in its kennel. Lots of dogs spend a lot more than 20% of their time kenneled or crated. 

Yes, this dog should not be bred. Aggression to children, small children, is a sign of weakness in the area of temperament. I do not believe every dog that has a fault, even a serious fault be put down. I understand why people would make the decision to put the dog down and why people would make the decision to try and manage the dog so that it does not have the opportunity to bite any kids. It's really up to you and no one should judge the decision either way.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

wolfstraum said:


> Disclaimer: this is a statement in response to the thread, not specifically the OP -
> 
> Nothing excuses aggression towards a child. NOTHING.
> 
> ...


This is one of the best, no frills, no b.s. posts ever posted on this board.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Lee, that was an outstanding post, every word of it true & vitally important. 

IMO, people should not rush to kill the dog. In most cases training, behavior assessments & management are appropriate. Many of these dogs probably require life long management. 

Making excuses for the dog is counterproductive. I know of several dogs that were bred despite being very bad with children. In every case the owners had rationalized that the aggression wasn't the dog's fault & was due to a bad experience in the past. 

Yes, children should act appropriately around dogs. They should be well mannered and considerate of the cats & dogs they encounter. However, even when they're not, even when kids are acting like out of control beasts, my guys are expected to continue to act like the responsible, intelligent adults that they are.

A lot of the riskiest behavior exhibited by kids is unintentional...The wobbling gait of a toddler, the mewling cries of an infant, the intently curious stares of young children, adolescent posturing, the shrieks & flailings of children at play or upset...Such behaviors can be dangerously misinterpreted by dogs who lack good judgment. Dogs without that innate discernment, that instinctive ability to recognize & distinguish children from adults, are (IMO) genetically flawed & should never be bred. Which doesn't mean that they're not lovable, personable, loyal & capable of being outstanding pets when properly mananged. Only that the problem *must* be acknowledged & they should never be bred.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

agree with Lee ms Wolfstraum.
In the von Stephanitz books there is more than one reference to the GSD being "tender" with children . 
In the case of these bites the kids were merely there , unprovoked bites , certainly not a threat. Even if they were the dog should be able to judge the level of threat and take appropriate action, which would be , go away , not pull out all the arsenal .


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

RubyTuesday said:


> A lot of the riskiest behavior exhibited by kids is unintentional...*The wobbling gait of a toddler, the mewling cries of an infant, the intently curious stares of young children, adolescent posturing, the shrieks & flailings of children at play or upset...Such behaviors can be dangerously misinterpreted by dogs who lack good judgment. Dogs without that innate discernment, that instinctive ability to recognize & distinguish children from adults, are (IMO) genetically flawed* & should never be bred. Which doesn't mean that they're not lovable, personable, loyal & capable of being outstanding pets when properly mananged. Only that the problem *must* be acknowledged & they should never be bred.


VERY well put.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

DWP said:


> We do not have any children residing at home, just grandchildren that visit. We are going to keep her away from all children from now on. She is outstanding in every other respect. I do not intend to re-home her as she can be managed. We have a big yard and we can easily keep her from the children. I will get a muzzle and use it when I take her out and about. As far as the incidents and what lead up to them; The first was a small girl that crouched down, stared at her intently and approached. The second was when a 2 year old stepped on her tail. That was the bite. The third last night was out of the blue. The boy, about 4 or 5 was just standing with his hands at his side.
> 
> I thank all of you and will continue to monitor the thread for more.
> 
> I do not want to give the wrong impression, she is very sweet. She is aloof with strangers, appropriately aggresive towards intruders without biting or attacking as long as they make no aggresive moves toward them or the family, very affectionate with the family and velcro when it comes to me.


 
None of those three incidents would ever justify a bite at all! IMO!

So it sounds imperative that you keep her away from all kids (and who knows what the age of the kids will be).

Personally I would be very worried that if she will bite a kid with no real reason that she would also bite older kids and adults with no provocation.


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My "child eater" was perfectly fine around adults, and other animals too. He just hated children, for whatever reason. I didn't raise him from a puppy, so I don't know what his issue was with them. Or if it was just bad temperament. It doesn't matter, he had a great life and it was an easy fix to keep him away from children.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfstraum said:


> Nothing excuses aggression towards a child. NOTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> lee


I actually disagree with this statement. 

I was told by a friend that she knew someone with a beloved pet that growled and snapped at her two year old. They were upset and baffled and decided they must put the dog down, though they loved him dearly. 

they had the dog at the vet's, and the dog was on the table, and the vet happened to notice something odd about the dog's ear, and looked in the ear and there was a pencil stuck all the way down into the dog's ear. 

I think a dog would be super-canine to put up with something like that and do nothing but allow the child to push the pencil farther and farther down.


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## sparra (Jun 27, 2011)

vom Eisenherz said:


> This is one of the best, no frills, no b.s. posts ever posted on this board.


Yup!!!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

selzer said:


> I actually disagree with this statement.
> 
> I was told by a friend that she knew someone with a beloved pet that growled and snapped at her two year old. They were upset and baffled and decided they must put the dog down, though they loved him dearly.
> 
> ...



Did the dog BITE the 2 year old?????????? Warning her when she was hurting him is not aggression. I hope the dog did not get put down. AND she watched her child better!

Lee


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## DWP (Mar 31, 2011)

*Update and Thank You*

Thank all of your for responding. Here is an update:

Last weekend we had two of the grandkids, a 2 and 1 yr old, both girls. Now, admonish me if you feel you the need, but I kept Kana away from the girls most of the time. Because she is velcro anyway, I kept her on a leash outside while the kids were playing. Kana and I went out for playtime with the other dog, after about an hour the grandkids came to play. I put Kana on a leash and it worked just fine. We had company over and sat out saturday night. Once again, while the grandkids were playing around us I had Kana on a leash next to me. We had no issues.

Rest assured I read all responses and do not take offense to any. Kan will not be bred, and I feel her bahavior can be managed. I will not risk any child being bitten.

Of course going with me to the bathroom is much enjoyed by Kana!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

So is growling at a kid ok? Just asking.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

To me growling is a warning of whats to come-


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

JakodaCD OA said:


> So is growling at a kid ok? Just asking.



In general NO - in this specific case - I think understandable - and good dog did NOT bite child under extreme provocation....

Lee


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

DWP, that sounds terrific, so no reason to admonish, lol! Even taking her to the bathroom with you so she's under watch 100% of the time is all that's required. I'm glad you had her leashed by your side rather than left alone. I'm sure everyone is much happier that way.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

DWP, My parents started socializing Cujo to babies when he was 2 years old and my sister got her babies. They were 9 months and 12 months ols. At seven he is a baby whisperer. And there were moments that I was really, really worried, but my mom was not. 

The thing is, if the dog is predictable, you can work with the dog and manage the environment. If the dog is unpredictable, then it gets much scarier. Children ARE unpredictable. They might be playing, sitting down in a sand box, and the next morning, they can have their arms straight out brummmming as they airplane their way full speed right toward you and your leashed dog. 

You cannot get your dog from fear-aggressive toward children to baby whisperer by keeping your pup penned or crated when there are children around. 

But, without a solid barrier between the teeth and the toddler, you really cannot guaranty no bites will happen, if the dog is willing to bite a small child. 

Children run and scream. Young dogs love to chase. Herding dogs herd. Dogs with high prey drive might be amped up by running, screaming kids, or bicycling kids. There are other reasons dogs will go after kids, but I think the point is, that you have to expect anything between unpredictable kids, and a dog with a pretty low threshold for reacting. 

Some dogs need to mature with safe-exposure to children, and they can become more and more comfortable with kids around. 

Glad it worked out this time, but don't let your guard down, these things take time.


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