# Dog Profiles- Your favorites



## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Who are the dogs in a pedigree that you like to see? 

As I am starting to learn more about pedigrees I see that there are some big names repeated over and over in many of the pedigrees. I would like to learn more about them and others. I started a spreadsheet (yes, I am a geek) to track them for future reference. Any info you have on any "famous" dog would be great. 

What is the dog's name?
What do you know about them?
Source? (Is it learned from others? First hand knowledge? Owned a progeny?)


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

OK...least favorite too? The responses on the thread about Ferro and Troll were exactly what I was looking for... More of those?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Luckily there are quite a few I really like, so I can just about always find something I like in every pedigree .
I like the von Haus Antverpa dogs, specifically Orry, his son Querry and our old girl Marek is always a bonus. Oh and Querry's son Tom van't Leefdaalhof.
Like Wicko von Meran, we've owned a few over the years that were out of him or linebred on him. Also Mink vom Haus Wittfeld and Arek vom Stoffelblick, our bitch Marek was an Arek daughter and she is our mark for a great dog. I like Pike and Ork, too and am thinking of some others but Schutzhund starts in about 15 minutes so have to go. Can't wait to see what others like as well.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I already mentioned one of my least favorites in the other thread. The other dog I try to avoid (though it is extremely difficult) is Canto Wienerau. He brought flash for the show ring, but also very weak nerves, Hemophilia A, looseness in the hocks and a tendency to roach over the loin. 

There are others that I don't care for, but to avoid controversy I think I will keep them to myself.  

I am found of the Lierbergs and their type though they are not always as easily "touched" as some of the more modern dogs and thus harder to work in protection. I like the hardness of the Körbelbachs and one of my favorites was Arek Stoffelblick. His mother went back on Matsch Bungalow who brought aggression, strong nerves and fight. Belschik Eicken-Bruche's (sire of my Vala) dam was linebred on Matsch (and was a Arek daughter). Belschik was a very strong, intense dog, not easy to handle, but very clear. He also brought longevity as did his sire Troll bösen Nachbarschaft. 

I also have owned some great dogs going back on Greif Lahntal. Super obedience dogs. The granddaughter had fantastic nerves, not a crazy drive dog like most people want now, but her work ethics were unmatched. I also had a female that was linebred 4,4-4 on Greif and again the same great nerves, super tracking, though she was a bit crazier in drive (she was also a Mink granddaughter. Mink goes back on Greif). I think, like Fero, Greif had to be bred the right way, always paying attention to balance to maintain the good nerves. 

Despite his being about as ugly as a mule, I have really enjoyed my dogs that went back on Mink (I have owned quite a few over the years). Again, strong nerves, aggression and fight along with tremendous grips. My dogs going back on Mink have also been great obedience dogs with excellent hunt drive. Of course they also were combined with other lines. 

Another dog that I liked, but don't see very often because of his hip ratings is Grischa Schwarzen Milan. One, the dog was gorgeous, but something I saw in his direct kids and grandkids was heart. These dogs never quit. 

Two more lines that I finally was able to cross into are the Fasanerie and Wolfendobel lines. I have liked the Fasanerie dogs that I have seen over the years. Again, strong dogs, excellent fight, aggression, nerves. 

One more dog that I also liked, or at least what he produced was Fado Karthago. I had a granddaughter for a short time years ago and at this point own several dogs that go back on him or are linebred on him. I didn't really think about the similarities until I saw how Deja reacted when my rooster attacked her the other day. There is an intensity in the dogs and tremendous fight drive. They also don't take any BS (yes, the rooster still lives).


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## Vandal (Dec 22, 2000)

> yes, the rooster still lives


Well...what lines is he from?


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## jakeandrenee (Apr 30, 2010)

Lol!


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

He is a black Australorp. 

http://www.ideal-poultry.com/images/blackaustralorps.jpg

Chicken Breeds - Australorp


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

Oooh, I had a black Austalorp hen that was awesome. For sheer cunning, the Hamburgs are tops, too.
The bitch I spoke of in my earlier post, Marek, was bred to Fado. I would have loved to have one of those pups.
Greif Lahntal is another I like as well. 
Not great pigment in this dog, but Mutz von Pelztierfarm. 
I like Gildo vom Korbelbach and Gento von Haus Larwin. There was a dog that a bunch of people around here had dogs out of or linebred on named Pirol, but I can't remember his kennel name, but really liked every dog out of him I saw (this would have been early 90's or maybe earlier? And another named Cliff v Mohnequelle.
Hopefully I didn't trash the spelling on too many of these, I'm working from my phonetic memory.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

I will check out the neighbor's rooster - he was very confused durinng the time change last week....


I do like the Fero and Troll, but depends on combos on both sides. 

Nick H. We Have a Nick grandaughter that really clicks with the Fero/Grim lines.

Orry and Tom lines. Gabor's Frodo (WUSV and FCI teams this year, HOT) goes back to that. 

Greif Lahntal

Working with a 4-4 Yoschy female that we bred. Year old. Incredible target, drive and bonded to Gabor.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

bocron said:


> There was a dog that a bunch of people around here had dogs out of or linebred on named Pirol, but I can't remember his kennel name, but really liked every dog out of him I saw (this would have been early 90's or maybe earlier?


 
SG Pirol van't Enclavehof? (He was born in 1991.)

SG Pirol van't Enclavehof - German shepherd dog


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

*SG Blacky vom Neuen Lande* *SCHH3, IPO3, FH, SPH, (BSP CHAMP.), (WUSV CHAMP.)* *Kkl 1* . :wub:


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## Ruthie (Aug 25, 2009)

Those who didn't include the information already, what do you like about the dogs that you listed?


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

BlackGSD said:


> SG Pirol van't Enclavehof? (He was born in 1991.)
> 
> SG Pirol van't Enclavehof - German shepherd dog


That's him. Came from Antverpa lines, I can't ever remember that kennel name for some reason. I've always wanted to get a dog from a P litter just to use that name. The 3-4 that were in our club back then were such steady dogs, not frantic or unpredictable at all, just cool as a cucumber regardless of what was going on. But boy, just wham on the sleeve, super deep and calm.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Lisa wrote,
"Another dog that I liked, but don't see very often because of his hip ratings is Grischa Schwarzen Milan. One, the dog was gorgeous, but something I saw in his direct kids and grandkids was heart. These dogs never quit."
I concur with you Lisa, I liked this dog quite a bit also. Very strong dog with heart of Lion. Very clearheaded. He did not have best hips and would throw this element into progeny if bred to weak hipped female(either themself or history). But when he was bred to strong hip producing females with good nerve the results were fantastic. For some of you newbies wanting to learn pedigrees, google the "B litter Cega".....one of the great breedings of all time. I would have taken an Aly Vordinsteinwald progeny (probably granddaughter) in a minute. Thanks, Lisa!!!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Right now, I am very impressed with Vox von der kine. This dog is turning into a super producer or working dogs and dogs with nice structure. Being out of Manto vom Kalenbach, his sire line is impeccable genetically. Manto was probably Lord v Gleisdreick's best son in terms of production. This goes back to Manto's dam Julia in conjunction with Lord. An added bonus is Lord's very strong hip production and ability to pass strong hunt drive and tracking skills.
On the dam side Vox's goes back to Cent au Sat, who was brother to Cordon au Sat. Cordon was sire to Tom z PS and known for producing good social aggression with stable nerves.
For the hardcore working person look up the dog Greif aus der Konigshohle, very strong dog. Or how about the D litter Konigshohle, that has 4 males that are Sch 111, including 2 V rated and a World competitor. Or maybe you would like Apo vom Schopperweg, another strong working dog. 
For the conformation addict, how about Aron vom Weinbergblick, or Mic von der Kine. Mac von der Kine is very nice also though a little long.
All in all I think this dog is and has made a tremendous contribution to the breed recently. He produces sport and working dogs,and structure and that is a rarity these days.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Up above , I meant that I would have taken an Aly daughter or grandaughter to Grischa in a heartbeat.!!


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Forgive me for an error above. Too many pedigrees in my head. Vox's dam side does not go to Cent au Sat...his mother Kim is a Troll daughter out of an Ork von Wolfendobel daughter. (Maybe even better!!) The D litter konigshohle is the ones with Cent au Sat on the dam side and Vox as sire. Sorry!!


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

Cliff,

You caught it when I did..


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## bocron (Mar 15, 2009)

We have 2 dogs in our club that are linebred on Ork von Wolfendobel. Both bitches, they are each really nice dogs and I would have either of them in a minute. Very serious dogs when on the field, but great family dogs with household full of kids and other pets.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Sue, Thanks for picking up on it....getting old is a witch


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

.

Will post the details later. Project week has been a **itch, O litter is crazy and the breaker box on the heat pump fried this AM before work....

We like the dogs that we are able to see how they really work, what they produce and talk to people.


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## jmdjack (Oct 2, 2009)

I was hoping this thread would keep rolling. Like Ruthie, I am trying to learn as much as possible about pedigrees. While I have not resorted to spreadsheets (yet), I have printed 6 generation pedigrees of several pedigrees of well-known working line dogs and, according to my wife, "wasting" entirely too much time on them. I find it fascinating to look behind the dogs (particularly the female lines) and attempt to determine what made them, to see the similarities and differences, and to follow how they have been used. Those pedigrees include:

Pike vd Schafbachmuhle
Mink vh Wittfeld
Orry vh Antverpa
Lord v Gleisdreieck
Ferro v Zeuterner Himmelreich
Enno v Beilstein

This thread has already touched on Orry, Fero, Mink, and their progeny. While I would like to hear more about them, it would be great to have comments about Pike, Lord, and Enno. I am particularly interested in Enno as there does not seem to be as much readily accessible information about him out there. Anne Kent commented on him not too long ago and I greatly appreciated that. Also, picking up on another ongoing thread, it would be interesting to hear about Sven v Grafental from those knowledgeable about east german lines. If I am not mistaken, Cliff has a young female linebred on Sven. Thanks.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Yes, I do have a female that has Sven on both sides. Sven was like any other dog in that he meshed with some dogs and others he didn't, Obviously, the Sven x Sindy breeding presented some problems. Other breedings he did were fine as per the dogs he sired in my females pedigree that didn't have those problems. 
People need to understand that the Czech dogs and the DDR dogs need to be bred out for genetic vitality. But many can't do it because they hooked on Heads and black sables and Whatever!! Same mentality as others that have gone down the mental degeneration trail. My DDR will not be bred to a DDR males as long as I have her. That was not my intent...but there are some nice DDR traits that need to be blended into other lines with different strengths.JMO


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

B, Interesting - just found this thread....

I have a female who carries strong Lord, her mother has him 3 times, once through Pirol, Matsch B & Bielstein, on the bottom, and this female has Wolfendoble on the top along with Xento Maineiche....stong female, strong head, strong color....no Fero, no Mink.....hard to find dogs to breed to her without them - her dam was mostly DDR and the cross on WGR was very sucessful....balanced out the sporty/high prey into dogs who are not just sport dogs, but working police dogs and SAR dogs....

I also like the Belgian dogs - Orry via Tom and Ufo v Guy's Hof - who I meet in Belgium 6/7 years ago....

I had a super nice litter with the above female and an Ufo v Guy's Hof son....again, no Mink or Fero in the litter....I also have an Ufo daughter and she produced really well with Tom sons - has many titled progeny here and in Europe - great temperaments, very balanced dogs....gorgeous dogs too..not just in schutzhund, but in AKC OB, Agility and even flyball! One schutzhund titled son is very competitive in flyball....I want dogs that have appropriate social aggression yet can be family dogs....

Lee


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## Saxtonhill (Jan 9, 2007)

cliffson1 said:


> Yes, I do have a female that has Sven on both sides. Sven was like any other dog in that he meshed with some dogs and others he didn't, Obviously, the Sven x Sindy breeding presented some problems. Other breedings he did were fine as per the dogs he sired in my females pedigree that didn't have those problems.
> People need to understand that the Czech dogs and the DDR dogs need to be bred out for genetic vitality. But many can't do it because they hooked on Heads and black sables and Whatever!! Same mentality as others that have gone down the mental degeneration trail. My DDR will not be bred to a DDR males as long as I have her. That was not my intent...but there are some nice DDR traits that need to be blended into other lines with different strengths.JMO


 
Cliff, if possible, can you please elaborate on some of the other Grafentals? I have seen some that were noise sensitive and soft in character, and others that were more solid in character.

PS. I like the DDRs but also agree they should be crossed into other lines for genetic diversity.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I don't know what to elaborate on???.....The Grafental lines are typical of the DDR of the past 15 years. I'm sure you may run into some noise sensitivity or softness depending on what else is in the pedigree besides the Grafental dogs.


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## Saxtonhill (Jan 9, 2007)

cliffson1 said:


> I don't know what to elaborate on???.....The Grafental lines are typical of the DDR of the past 15 years. I'm sure you may run into some noise sensitivity or softness depending on what else is in the pedigree besides the Grafental dogs.


Overall I have heard mostly good things about the Grafentals and have generally liked those that I have seen. The gun sensitive individual was by a 1/2 DDR/West German show-line sire out of a 100% Grafental bitch, so your comment about "what else was in the pedigree" is worth looking into... The other individual was 100 % Grafental but with Sven and Sindy up close...and apparently that is not a good combination...
and the owner has made the decision not to breed this individual.

Not trying to stir up trouble, just trying to learn. I hope my comments here are general enough, as I also have no intentions of running anyone's dog down.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

The Sven/Sindy combination definitely didnot work out well. These dogs (DDR) should be bred out at this point to enlarge the genepool. For the laid back this is good with German showline, with the competitve, with West working or Czech. The line possesses some strong natural traits, like suspicion and hunt drive that other lines have all but eliminated.


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## JKlatsky (Apr 21, 2007)

Leerburg has an article on Mink that I've found to be pretty accurate as it relates to my dogs.

Mink vom Haus Wittfeld

My dogs are linebred on Mink, mostly through Crok through a dog from Leerburg. I've found the prey drive to be very high with a low threshold, their nerves are a little closer to the surface, which actually makes for a super obedience dog. With proper socialization all were very environmentally sound, social with people, and easy to live with. All of mine have been handler sensitive, but generally hard to physical corrections. Good aggression when tapped, but not particularly suspicious (although this may be a product of heavy socialization in college towns?). Grip can get chewy if they're overstimulated in the work when they are too young- they tend to load. Very vocal- tendency to be screamers. Health/Hips/Elbows has generally been good. Conformation could be better.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I see that Ajay Singh, of Patalia Kennels has brought Mac von der Kine into the country recently. Ajay is one of the most knowledgable people I have met on knowing both pedigrees and performance dogs. (He is a world competitor in his own right). On the proceeding page of this thread I commented on Vox von der Kine, and his son Mac von der Kine. I was not aware that Ajay was trying to bring this dog to the country, but I am glad to see genetics like this; here for use by us.


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## wimmer105 (Jan 2, 2011)

*favorite lines*

I always look for BAD-BOLL or WILDSTEIGERLAND


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