# The YOSHI CHRONICLES - Diary of a sick puppy



## DanielleKeith (Dec 6, 2010)

Yoshi

Yoshi is a 13 week old male German Shepherd. I have had him almost 6 weeks. When I got him, he had just had his round of immunizations at 8 weeks. He was the most independent and relaxed of the puppies. He has been a sharp pupil, but not as playful as you would think a large breed puppy would be. His stools have been cow-pieish from the start. I figured with switching foods, stress of changing homes, and the random piles of rabbit poop that he was ingesting that the poop was possibly just the result. It is absolutely horrendous smelling. I have smelled a lot of dog poop before, but this is by far the worst smelling poop I have ever witnessed. He also has amazingly bad gas all of the time, and his tummy rumbles. He also has enjoyed eating his own poop the entire time I have had him. He is constantly itching and bits of hair are coming out everywhere. To the point that I am vacuuming 2 times a day, and you can see his skin through his belly hair, and chest hair. He also bites and licks at his paws a lot. 
Yoshi started itching and licking his belly immediately after we got him. It turned into pustules, almost a zit like red appearance. I took him to the vet, and sure enough he had a skin infection on the surface. With anti-biotics, the rash / infection cleared up. He has seemed happy and still learns extremely fast, and has had a pretty positive, alert demeanor through all of this. His stools remain sloppy and a gray/green color, with bits of food in it. He is getting small bits of hot dog/fat-free hot-dog, carrots occasionally, and some peanut butter treats for training, as well as bits of his kibble. Again, I have rationalized the stools and itching because we are frequently on post where he is sneaking rabbit feces of rabbits known to have genetic diseases. 
Round 2 of shots occurred this past Monday (12/6)? By Wednesday, I caught him licking his belly area again where I found an open, oozing spot right where is testicles are beginning to drop. I could not get to the vet till Friday morning, which by that time, the rash was everywhere. He vomited the night he got the vaccinations, but I figured it could have been the carrots I gave him. I have recently been researching more about food allergies and epi in German Shepherds, and I am convinced that the dog has a serious problem. Trip to the vet. Yoshi has another skin infection, which required a shot for pain and itching as well as a week of antibiotics again. I took a fresh stool sample to her, as well as fasted him for bloodwork. She is having him tested for EPI as well as parasites and allergies. 
The veterinarian has suggested that I simplify his diet to help his stomach, by cooking for him. Day 1 was 2 c. Boiled brown rice, 1 lb. boiled skinless/boneless chicken tenders, and smashed vegall (1 can). This was divided into 4 separate meals to avoid overloading him with new food. He laid down for a nap right after his lunch (1st meal after the fast), and I could hear his tummy rumbling a bit, and he moaned a few times which he does frequently (not sure if it is the pain from gas or tummy upset, or just his personality as he moans and yawns a lot after even waking up). 3 hours after his first meal, (which he LOVED), he went and pooped, and it was in recognizable turd formation. The color was a dark chocolate color. There was also a considerable amount less than the cow-pies have been. I didn’t go get it for inspection, but I could see from my window that it was much more formed than usual. He also did not eat his own poop after that movement. The rest of the meals went fabulous, and no apparent sickness, and the itching appeared to be better until evening. However, Yoshi and I were separated and he was left at home with my husband and we are hardly ever separated (like maybe 2 hour a week usually). I figured that could have something to do with the itchy/anxiety and the fact that it had been 12 hours since the itch/pain shot. 
Day 2 is boiled chicken and a half of a can of low sodium chicken noodle soup. Only because I ran out of rice and was not prepared for cooking for him when I left the vet. It is currently right after breakfast, which was ¼ lb. boiled/shredded tender and ½ can soup. He appears to be very hungry. He is just INHALING his food, and barking and whining at me when I am preparing it. He immediately went out for a poop after breakfast, and it is much more solid, but he did decide to indulge himself in eating it. He immediately went to nap, and at the time is not itching or licking paws, neck, belly, or the infection site. Upon inspecting the poop when it was finally light outside, it is actually formed poo that is a brown color. It ISN”T GRAY PATTIES! 
From what I understand from researching feeding puppies and dogs, the fillers and excessive additives in puppy food is not only quite intolerable to some dogs, but can do damage to the body due to rapid growth from the food (hip problems). While I am interested in how to feed my dog, I have received very little information on how exactly to begin the process of switching the dog over from kibble to a mainly raw/ homecooked diet. I have gathered from my research that RAW proponents claim the diet is the most natural. I believe that this is very true, however, I also believe that since we have been living with dogs (30,000 years or so?), we have been feeding them our scraps and leftovers My brother’s shepherd/mix rescue lives on a farm where he has open access to hunting, dead animals, frogs, rabbits, possums, dead roadkill including cats and possums, etc. While I wouldn’t consider feeding my dog roadkill, I do see that his diet has always consisted of a lot of small animal carcasses including meat/muscle and bones. He has gotten this as well as any grass, fruit, vegetables, and random things he has found out and about along with kibble from the family, and table scraps and anything else he can steal off the counter or take from the kids. This dog, Rocko, was recently seen by his vet at the age of 10, and my brother was told that he was the healthiest 10 year old the vet had seen. He has never had one health problem. I am convinced that his diet and his exercise routine (some walks but mostly his own chasing and running) are the reason for his outstanding health. The dog has also always maintained a very sleek/athletic appearance, with a shiny, thick coat and great teeth. However, when he eats dead things, often he will smell like them ☺ 
In the best interest of my longhair shepherd puppy, Yoshi, I will be imitating, as close as possible, a diet that he would eat if I were not around monitoring what I think he should and should not eat. Would I choose to pick him out a turkey neck or a hunk of rabbit meat? Probably not. Would I knowingly let him eat a carcass? No. There’s the problem though. A dog that is not constantly monitored is able to know what and what not to eat through experience and smell. They also are receiving extremely valuable food minerals/vitamins etc. from eating these things like the sinew, bone, marrow, meat, blood and cartilage. They are designed to do this I believe, but in keeping to what we have done to dogs (feeding them our food), I will be giving Yoshi the grass, vegetables/fruit/ etc. that he needs. I will not be giving huge amounts of carbohydrate grain sources such as potatoes and rice and noodles once his loose pie’s clear up and I know if he is EPI. 
Today I will continue boiled chicken and carb source food. This will happen until I talk to my vet. He is extremely hungry like I said, so if someone has a better idea for how much I should be giving him let me know. Otherwise, I will be keeping it light and simple while we are in limbo, even though I can tell he is hungry and losing weight. 
I also understand that a lot of people on here feed Orijan dog food. In order to see what the diet consisted of, I researched the nutritional information of the puppy brand food. It would appear that at Yoshi’s age and current weight (26 lbs.) that he would need at the lowest, 1845 calories per day with 738 of those protein, 646 fat, and 461 from fruit/vegetables. This would seem to be a good starting point once he is healthy. For now, the fat content is too high for runny poop, and I don’t think experimenting with vegetables will be good now. However, I will be mimicking this idea when I calculate his raw/homecooked diet. I think it is a place to start with a dog that CLEARLY cannot tolerate puppy food. So, my experiment begins on poor Yoshi. I will keep posting, and I hope that through this, someone that is as clueless as I am about dog diets will see what has happened, and possibly how to make the switch and have a healthy dog. I have mad respect for the breeders and experienced feeders whether raw or otherwise, but for some of us just entering the fabulous world of German Shepherds/working dogs from “family pet land,” this is overwhelming. Any good owner will do research, as I have done, and many others in this situation, before making drastic changes with their beloved friends. Some of us just need guidance, and encouragement (not snobbery) while we attempt to find the best solution for our best friends. We want them to be healthy, happy, and excited about life as much as any experienced Shepherd person. So please, do not treat us newbie’s like idiots. Advice is more than welcome at all times, but please understand that we are only beginning a journey that often we are alone in. I don’t know any people at the current time feeding raw, and although my vet is not opposed to any one thing, she can really only monitor the dog through health exams and reports. 
Thank you to all of you that have taken the time to share your advice on this forum. It has been most greatly appreciated and could even have helped to prevent Yoshi from having very serious health issues from undiagnosed conditions. I will post as we go along in this journey, hoping that I can help/relate to people in the same situation. Let’s band together and enjoy the greatest breed of dog in the world! 

]Danielle and Yoshi– Heidelberg, DE


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I know you put a lot of time and effort typing that all out. 

It is 2AM here, and I am really sorry, but I cannot read it. There are too many words, lines, in each of your paragraphs. 

I do not know how you can go back at this point and space it out a bit, but I think you will get a better response if you would put you a space after a couple of sentences.


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## DanielleKeith (Dec 6, 2010)

Why would you send me a message like that? It's less looking for a response unless someone wants to take the time to read it than it is an explanation of what has happened to my dog and what I am attempting to do to help him. If you don't want to read it then don't. It really isn't my problem what time it is over there. I'm not desperate for every single person's advice. There's a few on here that have really helped out, but I don't value every person's opinion regardless of their certificates or experience, so hopefully if someone is having a puppy problem with diet then they can read it and hopefully this will be successful, and I can help someone with no experience with raw or someone with shepherd puppy problem. It's just a journey and if someone wants to take the time to read great, if not, great. I was told to document my dog to a T so I am, and I am using this site as my journal.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Selzer wasnt trying to be rude. Its just a LOT to read and that much all kinda bleeds together and makes it hard to follow. Considering its a public forum, i would recommend spacing a little better for a thread that starts out this large. If you actually want advice from those who might have some ideas that havent been covered yet, spacing would certainly help. I dont mean this to offend but perhaps it would be best to start a blog elsewhere and post the link in your signature for those who might like to read it?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

First thing that comes to mind with the stool problem and your description,,has he been tested for Coccidia? if not, I would do that and most likely a giardia antigen test as well. (parasite in stool, but both tested specifically for)

Stool eating problem: sometimes dogs will eat their own stools, just be diligent in going out there with him, and picking it up immediately.

as for your diet change, you could very well be on the right track. What food were you feeding when he had all these problems? It could very well be an allergic reaction to something IN the food.

There are alot of sources for RAW feeding, you can check out the Oma's or Bravo's Raw Diet sites for info on raw feeding, or there are many raw feeders here, who can give you ideas on how to get started, what you need to supplement with etc. 

I feed partial raw, I get mine from Bravo mostly. Nature's Variety is also a good raw source (you can sometimes find both in petstores/feedstores)

I have also fed Soujourner, which is a dry mix like oatmeal with veggies, You cook it up like oatmeal, add your raw, and whatever else, I added brown rice. Make up a week's worth and store in refrigerator.

First thing you need to do is rule out any medical like EPI, coccidia, giardia, parasites, altho in a 13 week old puppy, I doubt it's EPI at this point.

Second thing, have you talked to your breeder? Any other owners of puppies from this litter to see if they have had any medical problems


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## Denali Girl (Nov 20, 2010)

Danielle, Jakoda has most of your issues covered. If you type in raw diet in the search bar, you will find more than enough info on the subject, more than what people will type here I think. If I can touch on one of the things you said, when you looked out the window you can see his poop was firmer? Anyway, I IMO, would put the dog on a leash and take him out to pee and poop, this way you can get a better grip on the poop eating thing, then you know where the poop is so you can go back out to clean it up. Cleaning it up is the only proven method of stopping it or slowing it down. I am sorry to hear about your pup and I hope he gets better soon.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

You may also want to post a link to this thread in the health section since your puppy very well could be having reactions to his vaccinations (the timing is way too coincidental). 

A lot of what you are describing is an allergic reaction, especially the red welts on his skin, either to something he has ingested, something in his environment or very very possibly the vaccinations.


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## DanielleKeith (Dec 6, 2010)

Thank you guys for the kind responses. I did take a stool in and should have the results on monday. I will update. I guess I didn't think about taking him out in the backyard on the leash, but I will do that. 

Today, on rice, chicken soup and boiled chiken..... no kibble or treats, the dog has BROWN, formed POOP! There is also SOOOOOOO much less of it. He isn't EATING IT! He is also VERY ACTIVE! I think his demeanor will change as he feels better! WOW


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I think you've got more than one thing going on and I agree with Lisa that the vaccines are either at the root of, or exacerbating, the problems. 

I wouldn't get him any more vaccines until his health improves. 

I would put him on a people probiotic, especially since he's already been on all of these antibiotics. And I wouldn't feed raw when he's having intestinal issues. At that point it's better to go with homecooked. Be sure to double cook all grains (cook for twice as long with twice as much water). You can also add in canned plain pumpkin. 

I agree to test for coccidia and be sure to let us know what the results are. I also agree that you should create a separate post (with more paragraphs to make it easier to read) in the health section.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Yoshi's problems sound a lot like what we've been through with Shasta. I found that the skin infections didn't really clear up until she had a 4 week course of sulfa drugs. The cephalexin and amoxycillin didn't really do the trick. 

Also, if Yoshi has been on antibiotics, that is a major cause of soft stool. Shasta has been off antibiotics for 8 weeks and her stool has just finally gotten to what I think is acceptable. We also did a food change to a different kibble. What kind of kibble were you feeding?


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

> I believe that this is very true, however, I also believe that since we have been living with dogs (30,000 years or so?), we have been feeding them our scraps and leftovers


Yes, but (up until recently) the majority of the food dogs got from us was BEFORE we cooked it. They got the turkey and chicken necks (we don't eat those) and the stuff we trimmed off our meats (before we cooked it).


Personally, here's what I would do.

#1 - NO MORE VACCINES. 

It's just too coincidental that your pup reacts right after getting a shot. Do some research on vaccinosis and read up on vaccine schedules. Research titers and learn about alternatives to vaccines.

And please try to stay away from the multi-shot stuff!! Ugh - that is SO hard on a dogs system.

#2 - Go Raw (what did you expect me to say?  )

I've been raw feeding for over a decade and *none* of my Shepherds (6 American lines, 1 German lines) have ever had ANY GI issues.

My GSD Mauser was switched to raw at 8 weeks of age and my Chinese Crested boys (home-bred) have NEVER tasted kibble (except the cat kibble that I use for training treats). They were weaned to raw and never looked back!


If you can't/won't go raw I would at least look into cutting out the grains and carbs in your dogs diet. They are unnecessary fillers (meaning more and often softer stools).


Forgot to add ...

Remember - 90% of the things that happen on the outside of a dog (like dry skin, thin hair, itching, etc.) are caused by what goes *INSIDE *the dog.


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## DanielleKeith (Dec 6, 2010)

I am completely great with feeding raw.... I will stay on cooked till I get the results..... After that, which is the easiest raw meat to switch to? Like Chicken quarters first or what is your recommendation. 

Also, you said stop vaccinations.... does that mean not get his 16 week shots? Not sure what you meant by that.... Thanks for all the great advice.... Danielle


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

Danielle, What Lauri was saying about the vaccines was that every time he received them he got sick or at least he was showing to have issues from them. Some of our vets today think that the pups need so many vaccines and actually we some times over vaccinate. Then there are some pups that don't respond well to them. I would consider looking in to that when you get a chance.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

i'm glad you guys brought up the vac issue, I totally missed that..

I also am in agreement with no vac's,,,has he had a rabies yet? That unfortunately is something that's mandatory in our state, so when I have to give rabies, I go with the "Thimerisol free" vac...Your vet may need a heads up on getting it, or he may have it on hand. 

Thimerisol free, is without the mercury preservative, they are single dose vac's vs multi vac's that most vets keep on hand because it's cost effective. It shouldn't cost you any more than regular price.. BUT,,if he hasn't had a rabies yet , and you are required by law to get one, I would wait until atleast 6mths before you do...


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## NarysDad (Apr 29, 2010)

Diane thanks for the information on the rabies vac, cause I'm going to look into that. Anything better than what we give them now is a plus


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

DanielleKeith said:


> I am completely great with feeding raw.... I will stay on cooked till I get the results..... After that, which is the easiest raw meat to switch to? Like Chicken quarters first or what is your recommendation.


Well, normally I would say not to worry about how to start BUT since your pup has already had health issues I would start cautiously with him.

Start with just one protein source. Chicken is the easiest to get so I recommend starting with that. Legs, wings, necks, backs and thighs are all RMBs. I feed 45% of my dogs diet in RMBs (if I'm feeding alot of backs, wings or necks I tend to go lower - like about 30-35% - since they are bonier). Then feed about 50% muscle meat (boneless breasts) and a little bit of organ meat (chicken liver is easy to find).

Vaccinosis is any type of reaction to vaccines. It can include physical symptoms, like the skin infections, and it can also produce food intolerances. My friends rescued Rottie is highly allergic to beef (raw) because of vaccinosis.



> Also, you said stop vaccinations.... does that mean not get his 16 week shots? Not sure what you meant by that


Yes - NO MORE VACCINES ... except Rabies and that one I would hold off as long as you can. My Chinese Crested Spike is just over a year old and he will be getting his Rabies vaccine next week (mainly because we have to renew our kennel license and all dogs older than 6 months need proof of Rabies).

If you are worried about Parvo or Distemper you can have titers run. They draw blood and check to see if the dogs immune system is producing antibodies that would protect them against the diseases.

If you feel you must vaccinate for Distemper or Parvo request the SINGLE dose vaccines and do them at LEASt 2 weeks apart. That means the pup will get a shot for JUST Parvo, then a couple weeks later (as long as they don't have any reactions to that shot) they will get another shot JUST for Distemper.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

no problem if your vet says they can't get them, they are full of it) Like I said, they are single dose vacs, (and you can get TFree in ANY vaccine) so they have a shorter shelf life, vets don't like to use single dose vac's, its more cost effective for "them" to use multiple dose vac's which have a longer shelf life because of the thimerisol used as a preservative.

It's never cost me "more" than a normal vac price for TFree vac's.


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