# Puppy Prices



## blysccr (Jan 18, 2013)

I have done a _fair_ amount of research and it seems that most working line's are 1500$. I understand the work put into breeding these puppies and (somewhat) the costs associated with studs and stud fees, etc. 

Is that price necessary? I know backyard breeders charge 250 ish and up and we all know the associated issues with that. How negotiable are the prices, that you've found? I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that cost of a puppy.

My local breeder has 10 pups, at 1500 each, do the math, is it really that expensive to raise documented working line pups?

sorry if this is in the wrong section, but i'm just curious...

(i now if you don't have the money for a dog then don't buy it, etc and I don't feel that is the same question...)


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't breed but I own a male someone is going to use for stud later this year. I've probably put over $15K into my dog in the past four years, with all the training, traveling to compete at events, club dues, equipment, showing, health certifications, the outrageous amount of paperwork, you name it. This is not even a dog I got as a potential breeding prospect. He would have to right now breed more litters than most stud dogs breed in their entire lifetime and that's just to break even, right now. These costs continue to add up as I continue to participate in clubs, travel 2.5-3 hours each way for training and regular competitions.... And this is just ONE stud dog. Now think of the costs of the same for a female, plus the owner of the female pays the stud fee, travels to bring the dog to the stud (or pays to fly the dog there and have her boarded and cared for), then all the costs associated with care during pregnancy and birth, and then suddenly you have 6-12 puppies that now need food, care, and supplies... Yeah $1500 for a nice dog is justified!!


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Purchasing a quality female puppy, raising it to adulthood, health certificates, and titles.

Then you add stud fees, MORE health testing, taking care of the pregnant mother, then whelping the litter, and raising them. 

Yes $1500 is a fair price considering you get a puppy from proven sources, the experience of the breeder, plus guarantees with most lasting for the life of the dog.


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## blysccr (Jan 18, 2013)

thank you, posts like this put this into perspective. 

i do not need a dog that has crazy successful show history, or one that's superior self-defense or drug dog, etc. but want one that has good temperament and trainability


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## mandiah89 (Jan 18, 2013)

blysccr said:


> thank you, posts like this put this into perspective.
> 
> i do not need a dog that has crazy successful show history, or one that's superior self-defense or drug dog, etc. but want one that has good temperament and trainability


 
they tend to go hand in hand.
$1500 is not that expensive for a well bred dog, Ive seen them go as much as $3500. My GSD Diesel (RIP) was originally $1600, but because I personally knew the breeder and did not want to breed, she let me have her for $600, would have been $1000 if I had wanted breeding rights.


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## bryant88 (Jan 22, 2013)

My GSD is from the working line. He is very pretty and has PERFECT markings. Both parents was registered and Zeus could have been but I had no intentions on breeding him and at the time didn't know how important it was. Wish I would have. Anyways I paid $500 for Zeus and seen a lot of decent quality pups around the same price range in my surrounding area here in Missouri. I would look out of state because pups in this area are not as high as some ive seen.


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## Rangers-mom (Jan 28, 2013)

Interesting. I don't know anything about breeding dogs. Before i got ranger i had always had rescue dogs - so heaven knows their history. Ranger is my first "official" pb. I am curious about what is a typical stud fee? I am purely curious as my pup is neutered and even if he weren't neutered he wouldn't be stud material.

To me $1,500 sounds about right for a pb GSD that is coming from a reputable breeder. Rescues often charge $300+ and they are just breaking even. And if you go to a pet store (which i wish no one would do) they charge $1,000+ for puppy mill puppies.


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## bryant88 (Jan 22, 2013)

And his hips was guaranteed


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

blysccr said:


> i do not need a dog that has crazy successful show history, or one that's superior self-defense or drug dog, etc. but want one that has *good temperament and trainability*


And the way those qualities are PROVEN by the breeders is to take their dogs out and put the time and effort and money into titling the parents. 

By doing that it tips the genetic-scale in your favor for getting a puppy that is healthy, happy and easy to train.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have been starting to do the leg work for a breeding with a female who came into heat early....

By the day that breeding would have been done - IF I could have made the weather cooperate, the male available and a few other things -I figured I would have over $2000 to maybe $3000 depending on the male's fee, in vet work, stud fee, travel, lost work etc.....I take the risk to loose my female every time I breed....sometimes you breed and get zip - nada - nothing - just the money down the tubes....

A breeder imports a young female, spend money and time to title, train, transport....and she is not able to produce or produces a problem that precludes her from being bred again....so maybe $5000, $8000 gone with no return.....

Then you get pups, and the work and more expense begins - if someone tracked the hours they spent with pups and cleaning and feeding and the costs....they probably could work at a fast food restaurant and net more overall.

It is not just that one litter that a breeder gets 10 pups from...it is the big picture....sure there are people making a living....and good money - but they work way more hours and have alot of expenses in breeding - and the dogs do not always the best life....


When you buy a pup that you are going to spend 10-12 years with - quality is going to be cheaper in the long run

Lee


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

bryant88 said:


> My GSD is from the working line. He is very pretty and has PERFECT markings. Both parents was registered and Zeus could have been but I had no intentions on breeding him and at the time didn't know how important it was. Wish I would have. Anyways I paid $500 for Zeus and seen a lot of decent quality pups around the same price range in my surrounding area here in Missouri. I would look out of state because pups in this area are not as high as some ive seen.


What are perfect markings? Who wants a DECENT quality pup? I want an exceptional quality pup. Were either parents titled? Did the breeder do any kind of showing/trialing to prove that his dogs were better than the ones he was going up against? What made the breeder decide to breed those two dogs in particular?

I'm not judging you or your dog...my dog was $500 from a breeder that also guaranteed hips and provided AKC registration. Neither parent was health checked, or trialed to prove their working ability. I'm not sure what your qualifications are for judging the quality of the dog are, but $1000 and up is pretty standard for a puppy coming out of titled/health tested parents.

I'm about to pay $1000 for a pup out of SchH3 sire and dam. Sire is extremely sought after and the kennel he comes from has produced (including him) 3 of the top working line dogs in the past few years. The only reason I'm paying $1000 is because I know the breeder.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

What baffles me is that people will pay at least as much for a designer mutt with no training/titles/anything...yet question why a working breeder would charge what they do. Any working breed(that is proven lineage thru pedigree/titles) should seemingly go for much more than a lap dog or a companion breed.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

blysccr said:


> I have done a _fair_ amount of research and it seems that most working line's are 1500$. I understand the work put into breeding these puppies and (somewhat) the costs associated with studs and stud fees, etc.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Any breeder can charge that amount. Don't assume because you're paying $1500. you're getting a good quality pup. Make sure you do your homework!


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## bryant88 (Jan 22, 2013)

martemchik said:


> What are perfect markings? Who wants a DECENT quality pup? I want an exceptional quality pup. Were either parents titled? Did the breeder do any kind of showing/trialing to prove that his dogs were better than the ones he was going up against? What made the breeder decide to breed those two dogs in particular?
> 
> I'm not judging you or your dog...my dog was $500 from a breeder that also guaranteed hips and provided AKC registration. Neither parent was health checked, or trialed to prove their working ability. I'm not sure what your qualifications are for judging the quality of the dog are, but $1000 and up is pretty standard for a puppy coming out of titled/health tested parents.
> 
> I'm about to pay $1000 for a pup out of SchH3 sire and dam. Sire is extremely sought after and the kennel he comes from has produced (including him) 3 of the top working line dogs in the past few years. The only reason I'm paying $1000 is because I know the breeder.


When I say perfect markings I just see some pups that are not mirror image between the right and left side. Maybe the breast plate coloring is lower on one side than the other or just little things I notice like that not that it matters or anything. Its just something that bothered me personally. I know that both parents was health tested and im not sure about titled. I know his Mom came from a good working line. I don't know a lot about the quality of the dogs etc. but I know when it comes to price it pays to look around is all i'm sayin.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Negotiate and shop around for prices? Are we dealing with dogs or used cars here?

I'd think a responsible breeder would set a fair market price for their puppies to recoup their losses from all of the expenses that led up to the litter. From some of the posts already in this thread from breeders, it sounds like it gets pretty expensive. A good breeder isn't out for our (potential puppy buyers) money. The good ones breed for other reasons.

If price is really that big of an issue to someone... wouldn't they be better off adopting or rescuing? It's a lot less expensive at first to go that route if money's an issue. Dogs can get very expensive and it goes way beyond the initial purchase price. Dogs are a life long commitment. This means food, toys, health stuff, vets, etc. etc. for 10+ years. 

If you've got the money to spend and commit, I'd think the initial purchase price should be the least of someones concerns - assuming your buying that puppy from a "responsible/reputable" breeder. You've got years of spending money down the road regardless of where the dog comes from.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

It costs as much to produce the pet puppy in a litter as it does the top puppy in a litter.


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## dogfaeries (Feb 22, 2010)

wolfstraum said:


> When you buy a pup that you are going to spend 10-12 years with - quality is going to be cheaper in the long run
> 
> Lee


Absolutely.

I estimated that it cost me about $5000 to show my bitch to her championship. Entry fees, hotels, food, gas, handler, training. People just have no idea...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

That's all?? try doing IPO and koer....you dont get those in a few road trips - or even 20 road trips...those are YEARS of training a couple times a week - and most people are lucky if a trainer/club is within 100 miles....I put 200,000 miles on a truck in 6 years training....a nice loaded up Silverado....ran a $40K truck into the ground, plus gas plus time etc etc....People have no idea what it takes to breed if you do it from scratch....and think we are rolling in dough by selling 7 or 8 pups a year for $1500-2000


Lee


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## lilLostduckie (Jan 22, 2013)

We paid 400 for Willa from a breeder in our area. She is papered and from a working line, hips and elbows certified, etc. 

That being said, her litter mates were being sold for 1000+. I know the breeder, and have been playing with her pups since I was a pup myself! We went through many litters but Willa was special, she chose us for sure. If we had wanted to breed her we would have had to pay 800 for her. 

I know the arrangement for my breeder is, for stud services half the litter in lieu of payment. She typically only is a stud service, she only has 1 female she breeds and sparingly so. She has 4 males she uses for stud.

She uses all the proceeds (not used for the care of pups and immediate medical) to fund a local rescue. So she takes a hit for sure in what she does, but she enjoys it. 


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

blysccr said:


> thank you, posts like this put this into perspective.
> 
> i do not need a dog that has crazy successful show history, or one that's superior self-defense or drug dog, etc. but want one that has good temperament and trainability


I agree with other posts that this will go hand in hand. Our breeder does show and schutzhund, and that cost money. But on top of that they follow German standards and only breed excellent rated dogs. That said, they pay to ship and train in Germany, than all the health testing and xrays. Some of these dogs are worth more than cars! 

So for a healthy pup, its worth the money. Because you can easily put in way more money towards a pup from a poor breeder. 

I noticed that this shows in the guarantee as well. Some breeders give 1 year, others 2 and a half. Those with 2 and a half, strongly believe that they did all they could to produce healthiest pups, there is always a chance, but much lower =) 

I appreciate this type of careful selection because i know that it will probably eliminate many problems and we will have a great family member for many years.


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## blysccr (Jan 18, 2013)

The breeder that i'm looking at has the father SCHH3 and the mother is not. He seemed fairly knowledgable about the breed, but I can find literally ZERO feedback/information on the interweb about them. I know you can take that with a grain of salt, but most breeders who are well known have a good presence on the web. 

Since the father is apparently SCHH3, I assume that he knows what is up.

thanks again for all the insight i appreciate it greatly


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## Neko (Dec 13, 2012)

blysccr said:


> Since the father is apparently SCHH3, I assume that he knows what is up.


Better than nothing for sure =)


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

blysccr said:


> I have done a _fair_ amount of research and it seems that most working line's are 1500$. I understand the work put into breeding these puppies and (somewhat) the costs associated with studs and stud fees, etc.
> 
> Is that price necessary? I know backyard breeders charge 250 ish and up and we all know the associated issues with that. How negotiable are the prices, that you've found? I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that cost of a puppy.
> 
> ...


My GSD cost me $200 and its the best $200 I've ever spent. I didn't get her from the breeder, but from the person who got her and couldn't handle her anymore. I'm looking for a red/black male(not easy to find a younger one in rescue) and I've picked a breeder. I'm looking for later this year or next year and the price is about $1500. I don't have a problem spending the money on something I want and to know that the temperament will be good, but if I were to find a rescue that fits what I'm looking for, I would do that in a heartbeat.


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

if you don't have the money for a quality dog do what we did.
every week we put money in a cigar box. months later, year later
we had $2,000.00 for a dog. we were willing to spend $3,500.00.
but for $1,800.00 (plus $200.00 shipping) we found a breeder
who's dogs had all the bells and whistles for $1,800.00.

think about everything the breeder has to put into their dogs
to make sure their dogs are A-1. think about the care for the adults.
the breeder is entitled to a profit.



blysccr said:


> I have done a _fair_ amount of research and it seems that most working line's are 1500$. I understand the work put into breeding these puppies and (somewhat) the costs associated with studs and stud fees, etc.
> 
> Is that price necessary? I know backyard breeders charge 250 ish and up and we all know the associated issues with that. How negotiable are the prices, that you've found? I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that cost of a puppy.
> 
> ...


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

lilLostduckie said:


> I know the arrangement for my breeder is, for stud services half the litter in lieu of payment. She typically only is a stud service, she only has 1 female she breeds and sparingly so. She has 4 males she uses for stud.
> 
> http://www.petguide.com/mobile


?????? HUH????????????? she wants half the litter for a stud fee???? That is insane! Half the litter???????????? Does not sound right....no way would anyone give up half their pups for a simple stud service....must be some thing more to this...

Lee


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## VanBuren shepherds (Dec 3, 2012)

Yes, it can be that expensive. In 2012 I spent $6,000.00 on my dogs alone. Including vet bills, food, supplies, registration, and traveling expenses involved in working with the dogs.
The ones that I want to use for breeding still have about another year to go before they are old enough to be bred. 
During that time I will be spending time and money getting them health certified and titled. If it turns out that there is health problems and that they should not be bred, none of that money is refundable.
It does cost a lot for a responsible breeder to breed nice litters. $1500.00 is a reasonable price for a puppy that comes from a reputable breeder, and at that price they still would not be making a profit. All of that money would go right back into the kennel and for competing and showing their dogs.
I've owned $300.00 GSD'S and I've owned $2400.00 GSD'S. I will never settle for a breeder ever again that breeds their pet dogs, doesn't have them health certified, no titles in the last two generations, and sells their pups on craigslist for $250.00- $400.00 
Finding the right breeder and paying them a fair price is well worth the extra money. They know what their dogs produce and what you can expect out of your dog. 
Most breeders want to improve their bloodlines and paying them a fair price helps them achieve that. It takes money for showing and competing. The better your breeders dogs do in showing and competing is the better value your pup is going to have in the future.
Its an investment. Their is a huge difference in your pups parents having titles in their name than not. The better they do the better your going to be off with your investment whether it be for breeding or competing.
If its just for a pet you should still want an actual record of health certificates. It's no guarantee the pup you buy won't have a health problem, (VA1 Zamp vom Thermodos is a perfect example. He died from cancer at the age of 8yrs.), but genetically you should feel safe with spending $1500.00. 


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## SuperSable (Feb 13, 2013)

$1500 is a *very* fair for a well bred working prospect from parents with health clearances done (OFA at minimum)


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## Omar Little (Feb 24, 2013)

I've never bred and I do not know any breeders. I'm also in the market to buy a GSD puppy. That being said, if I can find a great puppy from a great breeder for $1500, I will be very happy. You get what you pay for and I think that is a very fair price considering all the work and investment that a good breeder puts in.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I think that nowadays, $1500 is the lower end of average....too many people jumped their prices on mediocre litters to $1500....nowadays I think 1500 to 2000 is more what good working line pups are going for! Of course, some of the big commercial kennels are even more..

Lee


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## Sadie0804 (Feb 27, 2013)

Oh wow! Can't believe how expensive they can be. My mom used to breed and she would sell about $800/pup. We got our lil Sadie for only $350 from a breeder in Chicago. We found him on eBay actually and saw her papers too. 


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## Galathiel (Nov 30, 2012)

Isn't selling dogs on eBay against their TOS?


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> I think that nowadays, $1500 is the lower end of average....too many people jumped their prices on mediocre litters to $1500....nowadays I think 1500 to 2000 is more what good working line pups are going for! Of course, some of the big commercial kennels are even more..
> 
> Lee


Just out of curiousity what is a mediocre litter


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## Sadie0804 (Feb 27, 2013)

I don't think selling a dog on eBay is against their TOS? There are tons of them on there and not just GSD! You can't like bid now or anything.. It's more of an ad and they put their phone #.. Like the classified part of newspapers.


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## angelas (Aug 23, 2003)

Sadie0804 said:


> I don't think selling a dog on eBay is against their TOS? There are tons of them on there and not just GSD! You can't like bid now or anything.. It's more of an ad and they put their phone #.. Like the classified part of newspapers.


It is a violation of the ebay TOS as seen here. Just because people do it doesn't mean it's allowed. It just means it hasn't been reported and removed.


A mediocre litter to me is no health testing, no titles, no breeder knowledge and nothing really contributed to the future of the breed other than numbers. I'm trying to edit down Rottie breeders that I would be willing to give $2000 to for a pup and my criteria is quite strict: a CHIC number with all passing scores, front and back end titles on both parents, a temperament that I like (I have to meet both dogs), and a breeder willing to mentor in conformation/obedience. These seem to eliminate a LOT of breeders, especially the back end title requirement.


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## Omar Little (Feb 24, 2013)

Maybe it's EBay classifieds, it's allowed on there.


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## Thesilentone (Jan 5, 2013)

Sam's breeder charges $800 for their pups but I got him for $400 as he went through 2 different homes already.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

angelas said:


> It is a violation of the ebay TOS as seen here. Just because people do it doesn't mean it's allowed. It just means it hasn't been reported and removed.
> 
> 
> A mediocre litter to me is no health testing, no titles, no breeder knowledge and nothing really contributed to the future of the breed other than numbers. I'm trying to edit down Rottie breeders that I would be willing to give $2000 to for a pup and my criteria is quite strict: a CHIC number with all passing scores, front and back end titles on both parents, a temperament that I like (I have to meet both dogs), and a breeder willing to mentor in conformation/obedience. These seem to eliminate a LOT of breeders, especially the back end title requirement.


Have a friend who breeds rotties in partnership with a German breeder.....maybe too far from you - but take a look at his website....he has some very very very good Rotties with solid stable temperament!

Untitled Page

Lee


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## irickchad (Feb 6, 2013)

Getting a puppy from a hobby breeder with a good background as a companion dog for $800.


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## Rallhaus (May 17, 2011)

If you are looking for a puppy from show rated, titled sire and dam who have hips and elbows certifed and some additional genitic testing, and a guarantee, expect to pay 1500 and up.


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## Rallhaus (May 17, 2011)

11555 – to get a good puppy, feed, train, title and test it before its ready for breeding………..
if it ever is breed worthy!

2500 initial cost of puppy
330 vaccinations (2 puppy shots and 1 rabies)
500 food
300 toys
50 WDA membership
300 local club membership 
900 helper fees ($20 each session)
960 private lessons for IPO
1000 NASS for puppy show rating
6540 – subtotal for first year


500 food
300 toys
280 vaccination and blood work
300 local club fees
900 helper fees
960 Private lessons for IPO
200 BH (including mileage)
3340 – subtotal for second year


Still to come
380 xrays and submission to ofa
65 DM testing
190 thyroid testing
250 eye testing
190 heart testing 
500 dog show for adult conformation title
500 for AD and IPO1
500 for breed survey
2575 – subtotal for what still need to be completed

Double it if the breeder has both sire and dam............
I'm sure I forgot a whole bunch of stuff....

Then add stud fee $1000 (if outside stud is used), ultra sound $85, xray $100, 4 puppy wormings $50, milk replacer at weaning time $120, vet check and first vaccination $220, $60 to feed puppies up until they're ready to go. Nothing is included for the countless hours required to clean puppies and clean puppy ****, answering questions via email and phone.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

The puppy price is generally going to be the cheapest part of the dog. Its much better to pay for that pup and stack the deck in your favor as far as health and temperament. I've spent over 2 grand I'm sure in veterinary costs for Tessa over her lifetime, and she's pretty healthy really. Only chronic issue is her eyes. Logan, well he cost me 4k in a single ICU stay and turned out to have a rare disorder. I'm not sure how much I've spent veterinary for Emma yet, the worst was her getting into rat poison.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Rallhaus said:


> 11555 – to get a good puppy, feed, train, title and test it before its ready for breeding………..
> if it ever is breed worthy!
> 
> 2500 initial cost of puppy
> ...


Well - USA is $100 a year; a good training helper/coach is $50-75 a day; it takes several years to get a dog truly trained for the titles, GAS and Tolls for going an average of 450 miles each time to training (3 clubs/groups I can go to...each 200+ miles away!) - wear and tear on a vehicle (took a $35K truck and in 6 or 7 years put 250K miles on it and it was worth $2K...) Don't do NASS or USA Sieger show, but still do a show when I can - last one I entered I had 2 Koers ($300), 2 young dogs, 2 working class entries, 1 AD - travel, time off of work and hotel and meals....so at least $1000 for that show....a litter of pups to feed? the way I do it, about $10 per day for 5 weeks....plus the wormers, puppy vet visit, any incidental vet care....

Gees, it is depressing to see it put down on paper....

Lee


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

wolfstraum said:


> Gees, it is depressing to see it put down on paper....


It does, doesn't it?


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## Sadie0804 (Feb 27, 2013)

http://info.ebayclassifieds.com/helpcenter/?category=26 


How is selling a pet on eBay not allowed? It says on the eBay classified that it is absolutely allowed. 


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

Sadie0804 said:


> Help Center
> 
> 
> How is selling a pet on eBay not allowed? It says on the eBay classified that it is absolutely allowed.
> ...


Ebay and EbayClassifieds are different.


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## Sadie0804 (Feb 27, 2013)

Uh, duh? I got mine on eBay classified, which I clarified after you asked. 


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## Sadie0804 (Feb 27, 2013)

After he asked*, not you.


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## Rallhaus (May 17, 2011)

I Don't Want a Show/Working Dog, I Just Want a Pet.

This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER – don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they're getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.

I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, and I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they're buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.

Here's why:

If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you've heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.

The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog"; they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.

That's where people have made the right initial decision – they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be. 

Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible. 
You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little. 
It is no bargain.

Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog – the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog – but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.

If you don't NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, _you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one_. That way you're saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong. 

If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label. 

Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you're considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off. 

From Ruffly Speaking
http://rufflyspeaking.net/i-dont-want-a-show-dog-i-just-want-a-pet/


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## gagsd (Apr 24, 2003)

I think puppy prices are also dependent on the area located in. In my area, you can find well bred working line puppies from titled and health tested parents for $800-$1200. I have seen some for less.


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## DunRingill (Dec 28, 2007)

wolfstraum said:


> Well - USA is $100 a year; a good training helper/coach is $50-75 a day; it takes several years to get a dog truly trained for the titles, GAS and Tolls for going an average of 450 miles each time to training (3 clubs/groups I can go to...each 200+ miles away!) - wear and tear on a vehicle (took a $35K truck and in 6 or 7 years put 250K miles on it and it was worth $2K...) Don't do NASS or USA Sieger show, but still do a show when I can - last one I entered I had 2 Koers ($300), 2 young dogs, 2 working class entries, 1 AD - travel, time off of work and hotel and meals....so at least $1000 for that show....a litter of pups to feed? the way I do it, about $10 per day for 5 weeks....plus the wormers, puppy vet visit, any incidental vet care....
> 
> Gees, it is depressing to see it put down on paper....
> 
> Lee


I try not to think about it too much. Between herding and obedience training, and the mileage/gas/wear and tear on my van.....hurts to think about it! Sure does add up fast!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Even for those of us that don't breed, training,vetting, x-ray's and titling is very expensive. 
As others posted, the price of the pup is the least of the investment.
And why on earth anyone would click an ebay link to purchase a puppy is beyond my comprehension.


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## Rallhaus (May 17, 2011)

If you check ebay classifieds, and sift thru them, you will find some puppies from good breeders there. In the ad, if the breeder gives all the key information - hip/elbow certs, titles, show ratings and genetic testing...and if you ask for proof of these things when you go to see the puppy. I don't see the problem. I also suggest googling the kennel name, the dog's names, the name of the person you've talked with.......check for client reviews, ripoff reports and anything else you can find - do your homework.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I guess I'd rather see dogs in real life training to know which lines I'd like to have as a companion. Go out to some venues and see for myself the differences. Then find a breeder with the pedigree's I'm interested in.

Ebay or other online classified(other than the PDB or working dog. Eu) would be my last option for searching out a good line/breeder. Click to buy just rubs me the wrong way, I'd rather actually know and support the breeders goals and program. And it is probably unfair to the good ones that put ads on those sites, but when grouped in with the less than stellar breeders, it just seems to lower the value of all.


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## Bequavious (Mar 9, 2013)

I just think there's a huge gap between the average person who wants a pet and responsible breeders who show and compete their dogs. Both sides have a hard time understanding the other's perspective. A lot of breeders would recommend for the average person who wants a pet to adopt because they're not going to try to compete on the levels that require good breeding and probably don't want to spend thousands of dollars for the initial purchase price.

But think for a minute about a potential champion from a good kennel and the average mix you'd see at your local shelter. The puppy is a bundle of high potential. It's been bred for temperament and trainability and has probably already begun the socialization process. The average kind-hearted person who reads a couple books about basic training and how to raise a puppy will be able to raise a great companion from such a puppy.

But now tell that same person to pick out a dog from the pound. The number one reason a dog is surrendered to the pound is for behavior problems, so it only makes sense that a large percentage of the dogs there have some issue that needs to be corrected. Now for the most part these are small issues that are not terribly difficult to correct. Maybe the dog wasn't properly socialized and hates certain people? Maybe it loves to escape and run around the neighborhood? Maybe it has never been taught what is/is not acceptable to chew? All of these are problems that can easily be solved by a good trainer, but what if our average dog lover isn't a good trainer yet? And even though there are dogs that are given to shelters for other reason who may not need problem solving, what are the chances that the average person will be able to distinguish that dog from all of the others?

I guess I just think there should be some middle ground. Regular people want a good companion and probably don't have a lot of training knowledge in the beginning. I just think it's a lot easier to start with a puppy and avoid problems/catch them in the early stages, than to try to solve them once they're fully developed.


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## TxFig (Feb 26, 2012)

blysccr said:


> I have done a _fair_ amount of research and it seems that most working line's are 1500$. I understand the work put into breeding these puppies and (somewhat) the costs associated with studs and stud fees, etc.
> 
> Is that price necessary? I know backyard breeders charge 250 ish and up and we all know the associated issues with that.



I've read the other replies which all seem to justify the price based on expenses occurred. I'm going to take a different approach.. :wild:


Prices are set according to supply and demand.
ALWAYS.

This is such a truth, that it's called a LAW (law of supply & demand)


In this case, the supply of well-bred working line GSDs w/ proven abilities is quite low. Trust me - I spent over 3 YEARS looking for a litter I would want that I could afford. 

The demand for well-bred, working line GSDs is not huge - but it's bigger than the current supply - the vast majority of litters I've seen where sold before the pups were 1 week old (and I suspect that is only because many of the breeders would only take a limited number of deposits to avoid having to return money).

Thus, according to the LAW of supply and demand, the price is high.


Note 1: cost is only a factor in that it affects supply. If the costs are high, then the supply will be low (due to the fact that fewer people will be willing to pay those costs and/or take those risks).


Note 2: demand is subject to "available appropriate substitutes". In the case of this discussion, an *APPROPRIATE* substitute would be a well-bred, working line Belgian Maliniois. 

A poorly-bred GSD of questionable working ability would *NOT* be an "_appropriate substitute_". 


:hug:


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## Jukebox (Mar 11, 2013)

I talked to my breeder on the phone a few times before going to look at puppies. he is a very successful eruo show and schultzhund trainer. the price for his male pups are $1500 and $2500 for females. i told him i couldnt spend that much and that i was just looking for a good pet, so he said he would try to find one out of the 2 litters that he had for $1000. i got the runt, and im sure he has other things that arent show quality about him. but i couldnt be happier with him. 

what im trying to say is that sometimes you can negotiate with breeders.


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## tarim69 (Mar 17, 2013)

Here in upstate NY prices have reached $3500.

Yesterday, I saw the most awesome GS's Ive ever seen in person (European Champ line....black, tan, white and red.. medium coat length) and they go for $2000.

Im looking at a puppy on thurs, but if that doesnt pan out Im going back to the breeder I met yesterday and putting down a deposit.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Jukebox said:


> I talked to my breeder on the phone a few times before going to look at puppies. he is a very successful eruo show and schultzhund trainer. the price for his male pups are $1500 and $2500 for females. i told him i couldnt spend that much and that i was just looking for a good pet, so he said he would try to find one out of the 2 litters that he had for $1000. i got the runt, and im sure he has other things that arent show quality about him. but i couldnt be happier with him.
> 
> what im trying to say is that sometimes you can negotiate with breeders.


Crazy the different pricing for different gender. I guess the SL breeders feel females are more in demand? 
Most WL breeders don't have these price brackets or different pricing between littermates....in fact I never see that happening at all. Even the dogs that are a better working prospect are the same price as the one going to a companion home. And the runt may just turn out to be the best pup in the litter!
The only time I ever see higher prices is for an older pup that has some training into it.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I have often seen the smallest pup in teh litter turn into the largest one....some breeders have a surfeit of pups and will discount if they feel like it is a really good home...and the pup is not an ideal show prospect....

European Champ line....black, tan, white and red.. medium coat length) and they go for $2000

This comment puzzled me a bit...there are only 2 coat lengths - stock and long....and the colors??? black, tan WHITE and red??? what does that mean....??? are you sure this is a reputable experienced breeder???? are those color combos, is he selling white dogs??? 

Lee


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

> In this case, the supply of well-bred working line GSDs w/ proven abilities is quite low. Trust me - I spent over 3 YEARS looking for a litter I would want that I could afford.


I have to respectfully disagree with this. 

Don't know what your price range is/was, or what you've been looking at, but I can name a few breeders that are on this site that have well bred proven working lines.

and for 2000 bucks the puppy better spit quarters


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## tarim69 (Mar 17, 2013)

> This comment puzzled me a bit...there are only 2 coat lengths - stock and long....and the colors??? black, tan WHITE and red??? what does that mean....??? are you sure this is a reputable experienced breeder???? are those color combos, is he selling white dogs???


This is similar to what I saw except they had a bit more white on their bellies and legs.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

this is a typical European showline dog - simply called black and tan or black and red....the tan is in different shades in different parts of the body....from very light to deep red...we don't normally call the lighter areas white though...that is why your post was confusing

Lee


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Or could they be carrying the white spotting gene(if there is white on the feet/legs)? Though I never see white spot on the belly...just the chest/feet usually.


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## mackjordann (Mar 13, 2013)

I would actually say $1500 is on the cheap end 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## x11 (Jan 1, 2012)

what i have learned the newer you are to the breed the more you will pay, ime.


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## mehpenn (May 22, 2006)

I haven't read everyone's response.... and really, at this point don't have a lot to add other than what I see in my area. 

I'm very familiar with the kennel Zee came from. Her breeder's life revolves around her dogs. She puts a lot of blood, sweat and tears into each litter.. and while she does make money at raising pups, the majority of what she earns is put directly back into her kennel. Zee was originally sold for $1200. 

However, dogs of that quality (meaning pups from titled, proven, working lines with all the necessary health clearances) are few and far between in my area. And the quality breeders here have a monopoly on breeding quality dogs and can charge pretty much what they can get, because to get a quality dog other than from them is very difficult unless you want to travel. 

We do have a lot of "upper pet quality" breeders, meaning dogs that are registered, with relatively recent titles in their pedigree that go anywhere from $500-$800. 

And then the random breeders who just breed for the money, who charge anywhere from $200-$500, depending on size and color of the pups. 

It's my experience that you get what you pay for. So buyer beware.


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