# Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weakness



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Hello-sorry, this is long, but I thought I'd put more details in to see if I could get a list going-we have a vet appointment at 4pm today. 

I am referring to my 11.5 yo GSD Nina. 

She's on thyroid pills, tramadol for arthritis, a very low dose of elavil, plus supplements like a senior vitamin from vetriscience, synovi g3, hyaluronic acid, stuff like that. I am going to up her DMG, and she was getting coconut oil but has had diarrhea (the 3 am in the bed kind) so I have cut that out for now. Plus she gets Invigor by Honest Kitchen. 

She's been having the diarrhea issue on and off and I've been doing the whole routine (fast, bland) with that. She was on a short course of flagyl for that. 

She has a history of these weird things happening-she has flareups of terribly deep pyoderma that is controlled by months of strong antiobiotics. (Baytril) 

The last time she had this hind limb weakness/loss of use, she developed a monster sized abcess. 

I had her in to the vet about a month ago, because as odd as it sounds, I start to sense when she is getting to a weird health issue coming on-but nothing was apparent at that point. In fact, she looked great in every way. But I had that feeling. 

She was in last Wednesday and again, nothing apparent. 

On Friday I called and asked if I could start her Baytril as she was having trouble going up and down the stairs. However, sometimes Nina forgets things and has a hard time getting her muscle, or any other kind of memory, back. She IS the product of a mother-son mistake litter but is the sweetest dog in the world and one I would do anything for because she asks for nothing. The stairs tend to be one of those things that give her problems-like they are new to her. 

But this morning she couldn't get up out of her bed. She has an indoor kennel type thing, so I can go in and help her up. When I got her up, she collapsed. Hind end just folded. She looked like that Andrew Wyeth painting http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/r/images/wyeth.christina.lg.jpg 

I got her down the stairs (that Ruffwear harness-took it off poor Kramer and on her-a second one is coming tomorrow so they can both have one on) and she collapsed again, then got up and walked around the yard. She was able to do pee and poop which made me









I carried her up the stairs-didn't even want to make her try-and she's in her bed. Since starting the Baytril on Friday her appetite has improved. I thought she was doing better. Then this!

So-any thoughts (I am sure her vet will go to DM because of breed-but it seems odd) of what this could be? Or what type of specialist you would see about this? Would an ultrasound help? I am trying not to tie this with that last episode, but at the same time it seems very similar. 

Thanks in advance for any ideas. Appt. is at 4pm est.


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## WiscTiger

Oh Jean. Not Nina. 

Can she get up now by herself or does she need help?

Val


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## marksteven

Have you tried the test to determine possible DM. (with dog standing, bring the hind leg back until the toenails touch the ground. if there is DM, the dog will hold the leg in this position) i know this because my 11.5 yr old buck was lost due to this. he was also on tramadol. he had nothing left as far as muscle mass in his hind areas. one day he got up and dropped right to the ground like he was drunk. this condition started 7months prior but rapidly deteriorated.he was unable to jump up in my bed or even climb in the car.this was a large GSD that was used to walking a mile and a half twice a day. in his last days, he had trouble walking 100ft. have you noticed the dragging or scrapping noise of the rear toenails when your dog walks?


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## ThreeDogs

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

No advice 

Just prayers and


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I know.







I haven't tried to get her up since-she eats her breakfast laying down-but after her quiet time is over I'll get her up again and let you know. 

I haven't tried the knuckling test with her yet. We did it that last time (December) and she did test "positive" and then when she recovered from the abcess, was fine. But I will check it again. I hope not. I am sorry about Buck.


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## marksteven

Thanks, i hope everything turns out o.k


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## dd

I don't have a lot of experience with DM - just one dog - but it was NOT a sudden onset. It was a slow, ugly deterioration over many months. Here's hoping Nina is better soon.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Thank you-thoughts and prayers help, I believe as does all this information-I appreciate it. This is so weird. Nina is sitting quietly in her bed, all cozy, and is a little miffed that I ruined her morning Synovi with DMG and that DHA stuff for pregnant women. 

I just don't know what this could be. Maybe a fever?


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## Avamom

I'm so sorry about Nina....how are her gums, is she nice and pink or pale....


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## daniella5574

Jean you will both be in my thoughts and prayers. This sounds so much like what I just went through with my Chance... it came on sudden and with same symptoms. I will be sending tons of positive thoughts your way!!!


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## LandosMom

Jean,

Are their any neuro side effects with long term baytril use? even uncommon ones? also, have you considered ruling out spinal compression with an xray? my harper had that and it was similar to what you are describing...

thoughts and prayers from us here.

LandosMom


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I didn't look, but I will. DOH! She has black gums-what should I be looking for? 

Are you thinking something bad? I am trying to think of the list of things I hope they will do today/will ask for if they don't suggest. 

So far I have temp, bloodwork, x-rays front and back...and that's about it. And I don't know if any of that makes sense. 

Thanks again-just read some of the other posts-will check out the Baytril and other meds-I was looking at them all combined and all seem to work okay together but never thought of long-term with that baytril. She's been off it about 3 months now-which seems to be her cycle. 

I am going to PM you Danni. 

Spinal compression? That's interesting-I know nothing of this back stuff. I am going to look it up, any information like that is always appreciated-thank you. Is there a fancy name for it to google?


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## Avamom

Oh course Nina would have black gums, LOL....how is her tongue...nice and pink? I always worry with sudden loss of hind use and general lethargy about anemia or a loss of blood somewhere...but if her tongue is nice and pink then I'd move next to the spinal compression issue or disk issue, they can come on suddenly....could have turned wrong or jumped of the couch, etc.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Her tongue is pretty nice and pink (and cute-the tiny tip sticks out). Good idea. I need to get a better piece of paper to write this on-can they tell that other stuff by x-ray or feeling?

I am going to have to work tonight-I am not productive at all right now.


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## Avamom

Well of course her tongue is cute, it’s Nina!







Good that it’s nice and pink! They should be able to tell a lot by exam and x-ray... at least to rule out stuff, I always want blood work and review of file if its a multivet practice and this vet wasn't the one on all her issues...but I believe your vet is the same with her, so everything on your list seems appropriate and concise. 

And of course you know that positive thinking and your calm behavior will help her, try not to worry around her....I know, I know that is almost impossible....I am a card carrying member of NA also, Neurotics Anonymous....but try.









I'm sure the vet will have some idea when he sees her this afternoon...keep us posted. I gotta get back to work but you know my email if you need ANYTHING...just say so!!

I'll be thinking of her and you this afternoon!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Thank you. Yes, I am giving myself til noon to freak out, and then it's business time! 

And you are right, I have to stop getting that shrill, strained thing happening when I am around her. She seems to enjoy the potty applause that she and Kramer are both getting now, so will keep that happy voice going. 

Thanks again. I have also added the standby lupus to my list as well as heart issues (she's a bit puffy looking to me but has been checked), addison/cushing/diabetes because of the puff.


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## JenM66

BREATHE! Okay, I gasped when I saw the title and your name..... Does she form a cyst or something that causes the weakness then it comes out, abscesses and she's better? I have really no idea, grasping at straws for/with you. Lots of prayers and hugs (and incredibly sloppy Gracie kisses) coming your way. Looking forward to the update.


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## Amaruq

I didnt read all of the replies but I skimmed most of them. If I repeat anything I am sorry. I doubt that it would be DM as far as I know it does not come on all of a sudden but it is gradual. Even the knuckling test is not conclusive of DM. It just indicates that there is a nerve issue or perhaps a disk issue. Has she ever had a full back xray, neck to tail to ensure that there isn't spondylosis?


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## kshort

Jean, don't freak yet... I agree 100% with Ruq. Max knuckled under, but his was compression in his back, not DM. His went on complete bed rest for 3 days with high levels of steriods, then tapered off. It worked and he was able to keep going for another year and a half. Acupuncture was a huge part of his recuperation. 

Sending lots of healing thoughts and prayers to you both. I hope it's something that can be solved easily. You be careful too - you're going to hurt your back again carrying her...


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## RebelGSD

I had two dogs that developed DM-like symptoms on Flagyl. This can happen especially if the dose is on the high end.


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## Skye'sMom

Just read the posts and wanted to say I am thinking of you and Nina. You are such a good mom - is that why you get the needy pups?









Good luck to you. I know you will bring the shrill voice back when you speak to the vets - that will get them moving and taking care of Nina quickly.


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## 3K9Mom

Hey Jean, remember what you and I had discussed (when discussing Baby Beagle), that Baytril causes poor development of cartilage and joints in growing animals? That's in the manufacturer's list of side effects.

If it does that, why wouldn't it undermine the same soft tissue in adults? Maybe it hasn't been tested. Maybe in most dogs, the damage is so minimal that it goes unnoticed. But as we know, in seniors, side effects pop up where we least expect them. 

I'm just wondering that if Baytril messes with development of these critical structures, maybe it messes with existing structures. Joints, cartilage, ligaments. 

Can you take her off it? ASAP?


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## LJsMom

Hoping for good news.


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## M&J

Any news Jean? We're thinking of you. I hope there is some truth to the Baytril or Flagyl connection.


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## WiscTiger

I was checking in also for news on sweetie Nina.


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## Barb E

Dang it, I was sure that there would be good news when I got to the bottom of the thread.

_*Fingers and paws crossed in the E house*_


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## rjvamp

That is what we believe our Lobo has is DM...although not 100%. He has the issue of wasting in his back quarters. He can still get up on his own with some effort on most days. Some days we have to lift him. He cannot walk outside by himself (i.e. down his ramp or down the front stairs). We use a leash to support him as he squats to pee. He of course has begun to lose the ability to hold his pee when getting up now so we have to take him out more to try and get him to have a less full bladder in the house. He has only pooped outside a few times over the last 2 years. He typically cannot squat to poop. He has to lay down to do so. This passed weekend I really got the feeling that his time is coming to an end. He looks like he has aged so much in just two weeks. He will be 14 years old in December. He also has a couple of sores on his front paws that have grown larger over the last year....reminds me of what I saw in a white cat we had that had an autoimmune disorder. We try to keep him as comfortable as possible. He actually lived longer than we expected...I just asked God for one more year with him and he has thus far given me almost 2. I've needed this time to prepare but I guess I am never really ready. My thoughts and prayers are with you in the hopes that Nina's condition will improve. I don't give Lobo's story as a means to be negative in anyway. Just wanted to share that we have been going through this issue. Some have mentioned that DM may not be so quickly onset....so it may be DM or it may not. I would check with your vet to be sure so you get the right level of treatment as appropriate for Nina.

Lobo has been on Metacam, Tramadol (if you go off tramadol Nina may be aggitated or "don't give a **it attitude - this happens in humans), and Glucosamine, Chondrotin pills. Currently we stopped the meds to give his body a break. It appears we may have to start them up again. But change the dosage abit. He was around 125 but it looks like he has lost at least 15 - 20 lbs. He doesn't eat as much as he used to either. He eats Kumpi Adult dry and canned food as well (whatever brand he will eat).

Best to you and your family,

Robert


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## blueshepherd

Jean,

Also ask the vet about blood clots. I had a dog when I was young that came with a blood clot and it split by the hips and he lost his hind end. It was cured with medicine and he lived a normal life. Just a thought not trying to scare! 

My prayers are with you and your sweet Nina!


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## chruby

Jean,

My first GSD, 8 years old suddenly seemed week and swaying in the back end. Anyhow, after an MRI we realized it was a spinal cord compression where tissue that had grown was pushing on her spinal cord. Surgery prognosis was not good. Tried steroids to no avail. We ended up putting her down. That was a really tough one as she was still working at mental capacity. Actually, she was calm and happy and not in a lot of pain. 

Hoping you are not facing the same but wanted to share my story just in case.









It was just hard for her. RIP Roxy.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

This is all such good information-see why people come here? Seriously, thank you all so much. I had a very good list (and shrillness) to take with me to the vet and it's good to read all the posts since then. I REALLY appreciate the kind thoughts and all the knowledge. And thanks to everyone for sharing the stories of their dogs-I know it's hard to go back to things like that. Thank you. 

We were there from 4-almost 7. She had bloodwork done. Three months ago she had bloodwork done before a lump removal (lump was good) and it was beautiful. Today, her liver levels were elevated-ALT was 548 and the ALP something in the 400's. Higher than Kramer's ever was with his tumor (his slowly went up over time).









Then, he was able to tap fluid out of her abdomen. It had blood in it.














The mix of white and red cells didn't tell him anything when they tested that. 

Neither did the x-rays, really. Other than yeah, she does have some spurs and things but nothing to indicate that her current difficulty getting up is related to that. Though I am pretty sure it doesn't help. 

So she's going in first thing tomorrow morning for surgery to see what is happening in there. I had a hard time making the decision. I hope that whatever is happening can wait until the morning because I think if I'd asked, they would have done it tonight. I know she's an older dog and that this could be risky-but I am handing this over to the vet and my faith-using the what would I do if this was my dog test (the vet) and what would I do if this was me. I know that this might not be the choice for everyone, and totally respect that, and hope that she is going to be okay. I know she won't be if we don't know what we are dealing with. I am not sure if I am making sense!

Back to the easy stuff-I took her (and Bruno who went with her) to Wendy's and they shared a snacker or whatever they call it, then she came home and actually ate, too. So she's still eating-that kind of surprised the vet-she had two servings of her beef and rice. And that makes me very happy. 

I take her in before 8 tomorrow, then I pretend to listen in a meeting from 8:30-10:00. I can call there after 3:00 and will let you all know how she's doing. 

Thank you so much for your concern-and thoughts or prayers for sweetie Nina.


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## WiscTiger

Jean thank you for the Update on pretty miss Nina.

All right gang, Nina and Jean need our support, we need to send all the positive energy their way tonight and tommorow.

Jean are there any Meds she is on that could cause a bleeding ulcer? Just things running through my mind.

Val


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Val-that is going to go on the list I take with me to the vet. Thank you-good one. 

Thank you for the positive energy too. I truly believe in it. 

I am thinking I might contact the reiki lady and hope she sees the request before early tomorrow.


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## WiscTiger

Well give sweetie a hug from Auntie Val and tell her she can't keep doing these things every 10 months or so to get more attention.

Val


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

I will do that! A big hug-and definitely that message-with a smooch to underline it!


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## marksmom3

We'll be thinking of Nina (& you Jean) at our house and hoping for good results. Sending some more positive energy your way!!!


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## moei

Will send some reiki energy Nina's way and yours.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Ack!!!! Today is my teaching day and I just sat down to catch up on stuff and read this! Poor Nina and poor Jean!









My thought was some sort of side effects of meds. I don't know much about allopathic meds so I have no idea which one or if it's a combo thing but I'm just suspicious with those kinds of spikes. And surgery is the only way to figure out what's going on? I'm sorry but I'm a nervous nellie about surgery. I know your vets are great though and you have faith in them. Did they do x-rays today? I can't remember if I read that or not. 

Hang in there both of you. This is very upsetting. We will be sending healing thoughts your way.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Wow-thanks for the energy and good thoughts-much appreciated. 

She's bleeding into her belly so yeah, surgery.









If it's the meds, they will be able to tell, right? If it did something to her stomach? Well, regardless, those were things she's had to be on or she wouldn't be here now - with the Baytril. She could go off tramadol...and on...something else-she's got spondylosis, spurs, a ruptured cruciate ligament that was never repaired, arthritis in one knee and one hip. She's had a rough life, our Nina. I got her when she was 8. But she's got a good quality of life now-I am hoping to be able to maintain that. 

Yes-many x-rays. Enough for her to bite a couple of techs...and her vet. But they were okay with it-she didn't bite her favorite tech though!


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## Barb E

Shoot Jean I had hoped the update would be something very very simple.
I'm keeping the thoughts coming your way


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## kshort

Sending you both lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of good wishes and healing energy. Feel better soon, sweet Nina!!


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Ok, so that could be any number of things including a bleeding ulcer, right? Do any of her meds have that as a side effect? Or are they suspecting hemangiosarcoma? Sorry to be so blunt, just trying to think about possibilities.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

He has a list of things it could be-that is on the list. I asked about it. 

To tell you something, I am only checking the drugs, and that is the only research I am doing until I find out more because it is all beyond my comprehension at this point-though it would be great if it were a bleeding ulcer-who'd ever think you'd say something like that, or something similar and okay. It seems like there is a bunch of things it could be-he listed some others-and I am hoping that she makes it okay tonight and that we find out tomorrow. 

I have a list though to take with her-and the drug stuff is on the list. 

That is my hope! I know there are a lot of people thinking of her and offering up lots of energies and prayers-thank you!


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## DancingCavy

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Awww poor Nina. I hope you're able to discover the cause and that it's nothing major. Fingers crossed for both you and Nina tomorrow.


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## Amaruq

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Jean, we are all thinking about you and the Paq looks awefully darn silly walking around the house with toes, tails and eyes all crossed for a safe and effective surgery for Nina and a quick and meaningless meeting for you (since you wont be able to focus anyway). 

Best of luck and lots of














for you and Nina.


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## 3K9Mom

We're all on our knees in prayer for Nina.









All five of us at the Camper household, sending every bit of love we have...so Nina is literally surrounded by our love









And I'm holding your virtual hand, as you go through this. You know where to pm me.


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## LandosMom

Jean-

Bailey and Quest are sending Nina all their positive energy.... you will be on our minds all morning too. Breathe deeply. Nina will look to you.

LandosMom


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## RebelGSD

Positive thoughts and prayers going to both of you...


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## Qyn

I only just read this. I sure hope whatever the problem is, it is soon sorted out. Hugs to you and Nina ......... best wishes, I am thinking of you both.


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## ThreeDogs

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*










Jean, both you and Nina are in my thoughts and prayers.


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## kshort

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Thinking of you both this morning...


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

You guys are wonderful. I read these messages before we left (the ones that were there of course) and it was really great. I appreciate your good thoughts-and energies. 

Have a little change in plans though-

We are leaving for Cornell in a couple of minutes. Long story short-second thoughts on my vet's part (including dreaming of Nina), Nina looking better today, ultrasound, etc. at Cornell...

Will take laptop, hope to update!


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Jean, glad to hear that you are going to be on your way to Cornell, you didn't want to sit through the work meeting any way.

I will be handing on waiting for updates or if you just need to chat while they are checking over Nina.

Val


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## M&J

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I"m glad you are going to Cornell. Do you have your own parking spot there???
Safe trip and hope to read some good news.
Love ya, Jean!


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## LJsMom

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Sounds like a great plan Jean! Keeping you and Nina in my thoughts.


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## GSDLoverII

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

More positive thoughts and prayers coming from florida.


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Just thinking of you and Nina. Will check for updates later. I'm glad you're going to Cornell!


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## moei

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Keeping "ON" the reiki ... hope to hear of a good outcome.


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## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I'm so sorry to hear about Nina, Jean. My dog has been having health issues also (similar to yours but not the exact thing). My oldest is dying of cancer (untreatable) and my "youngest" who is 11 has some weird skin thing going on that we're not 100% sure of its diagnosis. One dermatologist suggests pemphigus, which is an autoimmune disorder and the other doesn't really agree. We did the test for lupus and that came back negative. She has deep pyoderma and was treated for staph. She has had a thyroid problem for years that she takes medicine for. Anyway, the vet put her on high doses of prednisone for several months and one of the side effects was muscle atrophy. Her hips would give out on her frequently. Finally, her skin was under control and I took her off the pred. She finally got a lot of her muscle tone back and her hips/legs don't give out on her anymore. She still has lesions on her ears and hair loss, but they're not as bad as they had been. As a dog parent, I feel helpless because she hasn't been "cured." She has regular flare-ups and has to be put back on pred, which has a lot of other bad side effects. Over the weekend her leg swelled up at least twice the size and I had to rush her to the vet. He deemed it to be a circulatory problem and was either infected or just about to become infected. I swear this happened overnight! He did a white blood count and that checked out okay and he sent off a culture to determine exactly what it was. (She had ACL sugery on both knees a number of years ago and he thinks that maybe her weakened immune system started attacking one of the sutures.) She has seen my vet more times in the past six months than she has seen him in her whole life! I'm just thankful that she is in good spirits and her appetite is good. He did tell me that he cannot rule out cancer and I told him I couldn't bear the thought of having both of my dogs having cancer at the same time. 

Jean, I really understand all of the stress and pain you must be feeling as this has been a tough year for me as well. I hope Nina recovers quickly and you are able to pinpoint the problem!


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## blueshepherd

Nina is in our prayers for a safe and quick recovery...







to both of you


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## kelso

oh, wow I just saw this








Many thoughts and prayers and everything else positive to you and Nina







and the pack.







Nina!


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## Amaruq

_waiting and pacing waiting and pacing waiting and pacing waiting and pacing......_


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I keep checking too...


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Jean I hope everything is OK. We are a worried group here.


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## 3K9Mom

Chewing my fingernails. Chomping my fingernails. Borrowing Camper's toenails....


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*



> Originally Posted By: 3K9Mom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chewing my fingernails. Chomping my fingernails. Borrowing Camper's toenails....










That sure doesn't make me feel better!


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## moei

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I guess I should not ask - "any news yet, eh?"


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## kshort

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*


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## LJsMom

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

My anxiety level is through the roof!


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## RebelGSD

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Waiting...


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## Mary Jane

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANWe are leaving for Cornell in a couple of minutes.


This was posted six hours ago, I think. drive time + wait time + exam time + read results time + make diagnosis time = TOO LONG.

lots of cyber best wishes for Jean and Nina,

Mary Jane


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I'm hoping everything went well and they're on their way back now.


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## Barb E

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I'm keeping those thoughts going that direction - but I have to head to the dentist








Hoping there's an update when I get back (and it's just wrong that you can all check on this stuff from work and I can't!! Don't tell my boss - I gave myself an extra 10 minutes so I could check on Nina and Jean)


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## Skye'sMom

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I sure hope this a case of 'no news is good news.' 

Where are you Jean? Helllooooooooooo!









Nina - you are in so many thougts today - wishing all the best for you.


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## Avamom

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Oh Jean, I am just seeing this.....everyone here is thinking of you and Nina, I hope you are about to post good news....we will keep all our fingers and paws crossed here too!!!

I know she is in good hands with Cornell....


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Auntie Val is having a hard time concentrating so she has decided it was time to load some of the new program she bought recently. Not too much thinking involved in that. 

I am hoping all is well with sweetie Nina and Jean just couldn't get online to give up updates. 

Hum, I think I am going to have to give her my phone numbers.

Val


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## 3K9Mom

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Took Boni to the Vet and Meri to Puppy Class....

And still NO NEWS?










Jean, I hope you're just running out to pick up a puppy cone for Nina before you come home. Yes, "come home" as in here







.


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## moei

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

I finished




































And still NO NEWS?









Maybe Jean and Nina have just gone to get some Arby's


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## BowWowMeow

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Me on the couch worrying:









Sigh...

Off to take Rafi to do this:







*<span style='font-size: 17pt'>+</span>*









Will check back when I return.


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## sunnygirl272

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

I spoke with Jean earlier. When we got off the phone, she was taking dogs outside in hopes of tiring them out so she could nap.
Nina is spending night at Cornell for fluids and to be stabilized. Still no diagnosis. Could be a hemangio, could be high blood pressure forcing blood cells into her belly fluid, could be any other freaky thing that any dog of Jean's is prone to. She's scared cuz she can't adjust to anything, or form a gameplan, because there is no indication of which direction the vets are leaning. 
On a cute note, when Nina was back in the cage area, they brought in a GSD that looked to have had some ortho issue. Jean said her head whipped around and she perked up, like, "Well Huh-loooo there HONEY!!" and she was too busy scoping out the eye candy to pay attention to Jean.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Oh wow-sorry everyone. I got back a while ago, but needed to let the other dogs out to play-I am sorry-I was going to take the computer out, but wanted to play too. Thank you again and again. 

I didn't realize with an ER type appointment there that you don't get that down time to get online like with other appts. 

We got there and they took us right back to an exam room. A fourth year student went over her history, then Nina and I sat on the floor and she napped while I pretended to read bad magazines (with the computer in the car). Then the ER vet came in and reviewed everything that they were planning on doing. They were really busy today. 

So, they kept her, which I got upset about-he thought I was upset at the estimate (which, yeah, not exactly jumping for joy) but I just hate leaving a dog anytime and especially if you don't know what's going on with them. 

They are working to stabilize her, get her temp down and check out her fluids/red cell something or other-sorry-it's something I am still not clear on-she's doing something with pushing those out, or watering them down...I really need to bring a tape recorder when I am nervous because I do not retain anything. 

Then tomorrow they will do any diagnostics-like an ultrasound-that they can do, maybe a fine needle aspirate if they find anything (under anesthesia-they have great anesthesists there). Then they will call me with what they find and give me an idea of what needs to be done next. 

They are so good there. It is just luck to be close enough to go there as needed (and miss a meeting). The one vet this morning suggested a place that is closer, but having had such good luck with Cornell in the past, I decided to drive the extra and go there with her. 

She of course was a good girl. They did muzzle her because yesterday she was biting (first time in a long time-she doesn't feel good-and her vet people don't care-or don't act like they do!). They took her out, I left, called my mother to update her and as I was going down the hill, realized I didn't tell Nina that I would be back to get her. As I was freaking out, I decided to turn around and go back. PLUS, I did have to use the restroom.







I figured, let them know what kind of mess they are dealing with! 

Nina was left at the shelter at 8 yo and I didn't want her to think that I was leaving her in a strange place like that-full of noise and confusion and fear-because she's got a softness to her-when I got her as a foster she had kind of given up and didn't want to eat for a couple of weeks. I want her feeling good and up-so as I was blubbering to the one receptionist, the other was calling the ER and before I could finish she's like, "you're all set..." and the vet came around the corner and I got to go back to see her and tell her I'd be back for her. They really are good there. 

She was on a table in a kennel type room and as I was talking to her they brought a GSD in-and her head swiveled around and I was totally ignored!







GOOD FOR HER! I was so glad she was that at ease-and that interested in something. So I gave her a kiss and told her I'd come back to get her, to eat and drink and be a good girl. I hope she can see that GSD tonight from wherever she's at. 

Her regular vet called and got the update and tomorrow when I hear, I have to call "Nina's tech" to give her the latest, and then she will get in touch with the vet (who is at another clinic). 

So now, we all wait. Thank you for waiting with me. Thank you for thinking of her, sending good thoughts, prayers, energy and moei, that Reiki works. Thank you all again. 

They will call in the am to give me an idea of how she did overnight, then after the ultrasound (hopefully not while I am doing a presentation-is it rude to leave your own presentation?







). I am just going to try to relax about it and re-focus on work, I hope! Also, the other dogs will distract me! 

<snort> Melinda-thank you! You said in like 2 paragraphs what I said in...15 or so! And adding the all important-I don't have a gameplan! I mean, it took her vet and I an hour last night to decide on surgery, then an hour today to decide on NO surgery...I hope they are patient-and that I actually have choices. 

Also-what a weird day-going in and thinking she's going to go right into surgery and ending up a couple hours away...


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Thank you for the update. I hate not being able to have a game plan. I feel like I have no control. I think its a good sign that Nina was checking out that other dog. How cute!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Well, Nina the Flirt is a good sign.







If she didn't feel at least somewhat ok, she wouldn't be scamming the cute guys.

As to the diagnosis, I HATE not knowing. My dogs always do the "we have no flipping idea" thing. It's the worst.







Poor Jean. Poor Nina. Gosh darn it.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Oh, THERE you are! Thank you for the update. Not that we were obsessively worrying or anything.







I mean, moei was IRONING CLOTHES. That's how bad off we were, just sitting around, worrying. 

We'll continue our prayers







at Camp Zamboni.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

What is this ironing clothes that you speak of? 

I think I'd rather chew Zamboni's nails...


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

I had to go bra shopping to keep my mind busy.

Edit to add: I iron when I'm stressed. It makes me feel better. I didn't have anything left to iron today.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Oh Jean, Auntie Val was so worried. The longer we didn't hear any thing the more worried I got.

I am glad that Nina felt well enough and comfortable enough to check out the eye candy, the little hussy, I mean charmer of the male GSD's.

Take some time for the rest of your pack. 

Val


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Well no game plan is fine when they are still diagnosing....Cornell is top notch and its better to know what is happening than to guess, so although I know its no fun to NOT know what is wrong, I am glad that they are waiting until doing more testing to say what it is...that is a good sign









You go Nina, flirting even when feeling bad...









Jean, try to get some rest....thank you for updating us, I have my inlaws in town visiting but I keep running out the room to check the board, now I guess I have to go back and visit, knowing Nina is in good hands and you are home, hopefully resting and playing with your gang! Hugs to you and Nina!!!


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Thanks for the update Jean









We'll keep the fingers and paws crossed and keep the good thoughts heading that way.

Waiting makes me hungry and thirsty


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Thanks Jean for the update! Sending good vibes and prayers Nina's way. Yours too, before ya come after MY nails!

Grimmi's clodhopper paws are crossed for Nina's easy diagnosis, simple gameplan, smooth-n-speedy recovery, and her flirtability wiff hunky GSDs!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*



> Quote:
> Waiting makes me hungry and thirsty


Hoping in the car and driving south....Barb and I may be waiting this out together. 

I anticipate a lot of brain cells dying off.


And darn it, I knew I shouldn't have spent good money for Zamboni's nail trim at the vet's today. Darn darn darn.


----------



## JasperLoki

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Jean, my thoughts are with you, Nina and the pack


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Hussy!







That is just a word I could hear Nina saying (if she talked-I really don't think that she does-mostly







). Isn't she so sweet to flirt-the students were laughing too. It was SO obvious. 

One of the IMOM ladies sent me a gameplan-seriously, it is like an if this, than this. I just hope the ifs fit-but it is a good framework, kind of like the comfort food of thinking. 

Did I say her lung x-rays taken at my vet office looked good? They did-I think they are going to do more x-rays tomorrow. 

So what else do people do when they wait? We've got ironing, chewing nails, bra shopping, eating, drinking...I am going to sleep-that's always one for me! 

Hey, Jack-thanks-feel free to add your waiting game!


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

Hugs to you and the pack Jean - hoping for some good news about Nina!


----------



## debbiebrown

*Re: Mini 2nd hand Nina-update*

more good thoughts your way Jean and Nina









debbie


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Well I have been installing new programs on my computer and uninstaling the older ones.

But Jean you are rubbing off on me, I did some Google searching.

I found a good link on blood counts and what does what, including Platelets which if there aren't enough can cause internal bleeds. Some things are a little scary on the link but it is pretty good info.

http://www.fetchdog.com/learn-connect/do...3/I/AR000010025

Val


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

What a day for the 2 of you! More you than Nina it sounds like.

Hope tomorrow brings you some good news.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

I'm sorry that you had to leave Nina there. I will be sending her lots of warm, healing energy. 


I was so wired that I kicked Rafi's soccer ball so hard it flew over the top of the goal post! Luckily he didn't try to go through the net to get it!









I eat and exercise and play with my animals when I'm nervous. And play stupid games on the computer.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Well I'm sure it's going to be a sleepless night for you, Jean. Darnit - wish you didn't have to wait. Waiting is excruciating. Still sending lots of prayers and healing thoughts to you both.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

That's too cute that Nina was flirting with that other GSD.









We'll keep our paws and fingers crossed here that everything goes well for Nina. Get some sleep, Jean.


----------



## mspiker03

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Hope Nina feels better soon!


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Oh sweet Nina! Checking out da boyz!









Thank you for the update Jean. 


I was so hyper







, I even ironed underwear 

Now how do I handle more waiting tomorrow??









I know .... helps in concentrating for Reiki too.

Will keep Nina and you in the Light


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Jean, I am sorry to hear that you had to leave Nina overnight. I am glad though that you opted to turn around so you could SEE her flirting to help you feel a little better. I am sure your other dogs will keep you busy but I think it would be funny if you had to leave your meeting to get an update AND to post that update here before finishing your presentation. Somehow, I can just see you doing that. 

Paws and fingers are crossed here for a speedy diagnosis and recovery for Miss Nina-Flirt.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Thanks for the update as Tom Petty sang "the wai-ay-ting is the hardest part". I'm staying tuned for any information about the lovely Nina and the special Jean.


----------



## GSDLoverII

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Still more positive thoughts and prayers for Miss Nina.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

I came into my lab, turned on my computer, and this is the first thing I did. I didn't start to read or write or talk about viruses in the brain (that's work) I came to hear about Jean and Nina. 

Jean, that's not waiting for news-it's a privilege to know about great creatures like Nina (and you of course).

More cyber best wishes,
Mary Jane


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

You guys are all too great-I really appreciate it. Nina is just so sweet-I wish you all could meet her. 

Val-thanks for that link. I am saving it. I am also doing some work today to try to keep my mind busy. 

Just got off the phone with her new doctor in internal medicine who seems great. Nina slept well last night, ate just a little (she's kind of picky), and has been going out for walks and pees well. She's been good (with the muzzle on) and is accepting affection-so that's nice. She said she (the vet) gave her (Nina) kisses on the head this morning-thank goodness-that makes me feel good. I wish I had brought some of her canned food down and will see what the vet says this afternoon-may send it to her or something. 

So they just don't know anything yet. Still has a fever, they are going to do the ultrasound this afternoon and I we made arrangements for me to call after my presentation (yeah-that will be a good one). Might need to do the fine needle aspirate if they find something in the abdomen, which is where they are concentrating their concerns. I talked to her about that previous monster abcess and how Nina does not do well with infection. They did the clotting test-the first half was normal, the second half indicated that she has been clotting already...clotting something for some reason. 

She said she's got something big cooking in there but there is no fast or easy way to determine what it is. 

The good news is if she needs surgery, it would be the one who did Anna's surgery. That would be very okay with me. 

Thanks again-I'll let you know what they say after the US. I am really tweaking because I think that is where the bear will poop in the buckwheat or whatever the saying is in terms of knowing what is happening-and that scares me-knowing as much as not knowing, at this point.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

Back to pacing and waiting again. And what time is the next update scheduled?









Hugs and positive thoughts for you and the GSD Hussy.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> She said she's got something big cooking in there


I read that and immediately thought - puppies!







Just trying to keep up spirits, sorry if it seems too crass







Thanks for the update. Good Luck with the presentation.

Will keep Nina in the Light.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

I should be done and able to call by 4:30 pm. Then I'll come home (I will be calling from a parking lot if I can wait that long to get out there), post and go outside and try to burn off this cortisol stress cocktail!







SO I am guessing by 5:00 I should have an update.


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

She has been fighting infection for all this time, and now has a fever. Hmm. I vote for a giant abcess, which they will be able to blast.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/16*

I have a meeting at 5 so I will have extra time to worry today...great. 

I hope the bear gets out of the buckwheat or comes out of her abdomen.









Anyway, I will continue to send healing thoughts Nina's way and will hope for a very good, very simple outcome.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

PUPPIES!!!!!!!!!!! Wouldn't that be something-she'd be famous. 

Mary-I keep thinking that too. I just sent them some more information and my vet office is sending them even more-so hopefully all of that will get there and they will be able to pinpoint something this afternoon. 

Locking myself up to finish prepping for work!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean hopefully they will have some additional info this afternoon. Since she has had monster problems in the past, I wonder if there isn't another huge infection pocket tring to for or is formed.

Your Welcome about the link. You are usually the one who has all the good links it was just my turn to help.

OK Nina, enough of playing Hussy and sucking up all the attention at the Clinic. Jean needs you getting better and I would bet that Kraemer misses you also. We know that you can be as sweet as pie, but your family would like you back home.

Val


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Aweeee come on you need to cut your meeting short. I leave for work by 330 so we need a 3 PM update.


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I am outta here at 2. I feel like calling your vet to get the update and posting an update!
Maybe I will borrow one of my student's cell phones and call from my classroom.

With her history of having hard to beat infections I would be pretty shocked if it were anything other than being related to that.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*



> Quote:
> "the wai-ay-ting is the hardest part".


Thanks to Qyn, I'll be humming this song over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again







......until we hear from you.


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

T minus 50 minutes until an update...........


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

It's almost 5 O'clock in The States in PA!! We are pacing here in Germany!! We want to hear GOOD NEWS about Nina doing well, an easy diagnosis and plan, and everything being optimistic! Sending good vibes across the Atlantic ocean.....


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I have to get on the road soon to go to my meeting...was just hoping for an early update. I hope they don't find this impatient rodent in her abdomen


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I called but her doctor is busy-doing doctor stuff. I am sitting in the car waiting for her to call. 

Good to have others waiting too. 

I am with you guys on the giant infection idea. I sent them a non-medical summary of her infections. They had thought the rear end weakness was a constant-carried over from the abcess, but I sent them a timeline type thing with that information. And pictures.









I think I am going to post that link Val on Dena's thread! 

Tom Petty...


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean with the hip maybe her hip was not the best and having a possible raging infection some place is just making her feel weak.

Geeze I hate waiting. But a least we are not alone nor is Jean, we can keep her busy reading messages.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Exactly! Thank you! Just noticed that creepy rat and the funny hair pulling graemlin!









You know my cousin had what everyone thought was a bad back. Turned out that she had a HUGE infection in her hip bone (is that osteomyelitis?) and she almost died. Her hip actually got eaten up by the infection and she had to have a replacement (soon). Of course, had they done bloodwork like they do with dogs, instead of just thinking it was her back...they would have known sooner and she wouldn't have gotten so sick, or needed the THR. 

Oh-and she wasn't old-they think the infection got in her body when she had breast reduction.







I am sure she'd love me telling everyone on a GSD board about this...

What is my point? I have no idea. That was scary though. I told her she should have gone to the vet.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Are any of the vets at Cornell doing holistic "interventions"?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Not really that I know of...they are pretty traditional. Advanced in their way, but I like to do a little of both. Or a lot of both! 

I might need to go in-I am still sitting in the car like a loon. 

Here is their website: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/hospital/

Nothing says advanced like pictures of sheep, to me anyway.







Different departments: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/clinsci/facultySECTION.htm

It reminds me of being on a giant ship (because of course I've been on...well I don't know if I ever have been on one-but it's what I think it would be like) when you go into the hallways and exam areas. 

I am tired.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Things that we do while waiting for news......


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

There, there Jean. If you feel yourself becoming more loony, we shall be here with you.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I just caught up with this thread......

Hoping for news soon and hoping it is nothing that can't be readily fixed. 

Sending good thoughts and Kayos is now feeling good enough to cross her paws for Nina.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*








- is there an update that I cannot see,, becoz I have been staring at the screen too long?


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Moei, I don't







see any here. I'll keep looking.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*








Perhaps. If we all wish together










Then wishing will make the doctor call!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I've gone for a bike ride, went to the farmer's market, the grocery store, made pureed sweet potatoes and pork for Lady Jane because she was a good girl at the vet today - particularly since I forgot to muzzle her - I ate dinner, and still no word. I think I'll have a glass of wine.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Camper had







for dinner. A huge drumstick. Delicious! 

Zamboni had







kibble

Meri had fresh







.

I had







left over from last night. 

And still, nothing?


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I am sure that Jean had to take care of the rest of her crew. They all some Jean attention.

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*








You guys are great. I have to tell you, I look at all these little cartoon things and really enjoy them! And your stories of what you've done-great. But did you eat little smile faces in a cone? Is that...okay to do? 

Okay! Now for the update. I had to take the other dogs out-sorry-they were getting antsy for a good run. And I had to call Nina's tech here-because of course, Nina has her own tech. 

They said this is not a straight forward case. That certain indicators will point in one direction, while others point in another, etc. It is very complicated. 

Ultrasound done-NO giant tumors noted! So that's good-but as she said that doesn't mean she's cancer free, just that no tumors have formed. But still I check that off in the good box. Her liver is very big and her spleen is also enlarged but not as big in comparison. The lining of the abdomen/gut (sounds like the word augmentin but isn't) is inflamed. Some kind of inflammatory process-but don't know why. Lymph nodes around the liver are also larger. I wonder if dogs get sarcoidosis! Or that rheumatoid arthritis (not that either make sense). 

I think they tested for lupus too. 

They are wondering if its a systemic process that has been ongoing with these waxing and waning episodes. I am going to send them the link (LOL!) to GSD pyoderma to see if that lights up any of their brains! 

Did not have anything to do a f/n aspirate on. 

http://www.drugs.com/cdi/unasyn.html (ampicillin?) is the drug they started her on. She was dehydrated.










They are going to do lepto titers and bile acids test tomorrow. Also a blood culture-didn't even know you could do that. Trying to stay away from anything invasive yet. 

Could be liver failure, a cancer, an infectious systemic disease like an old lepto, I think she said just regular infection but some kind of weird one, something is making her d-dimers???? weird in her clotting profile-ah, my notes suck-this is very confusing stuff! I need a good Vet-English dictionary! 

She said they were very early in the dx process-which I guess means they have more tricks up their sleeve. She is tolerating it VERY well and seems relaxed (probably partly due to her fever-tiring-my guess-but glad she is). She only gets snappy for blood draws and gives them a warning look so they muzzle her (and for the U/S). They said she's being VERY good and is getting many kisses on the head which made my day. She is probably enjoying the hustle and bustle of that kennel room. She is VERY nosy and I call her Gladys Kravitz from Bewitched. 

One mystery was solved by the neurology team (I heard that and thought...what?!?!? NEUROLOGY!!!! Anyone else?). They checked out her movement, her x-rays and determined that her spondylosis is such that when she's feeling okay, is uncomfortable but reasonable for her-but that when she gets sick, she just can't lift her butt (I know that feeling) and her hind end weakness comes to the front. It's good though as a sign. 

I told her I enjoy House, but not when my dog is the star. She said that's what her division head says they do, and I really do feel that is what is happening. I am just thankful that we are close enough to such a place and that Nina is doing well with all of it. 

I can go visit her tomorrow-she thought that it would be good for Nina. Visiting hours are 6-7:30 pm so that's pretty convenient and works with my schedule. I can also bring a couple of her friends so that's cool too. Mario would be great-he kisses her all the time-but he can't ride to the end of the street, never mind Ithaca! If Kramer were healthy and didn't stress at vets he'd be great. Bruno, Anna, and Mariele are my top three choices after that. Bella pants the entire ride-two hours and I'd be covered in slime and insane from that noise. Ava and Ilsa pick at Nina-and she gives it back-but I think that's not the best idea! And she can't stand to see Jaeger (not sure why-both she and Kramer). I can bring Nina's canned foods and some packets of dry, supplements, etc. I am also going to ask about a weekend pass if needed! 

I feel like they are holding my dog hostage! But this is what she said-she is tolerating the testing and is able to continue with them-and doing well in other ways so that she can continue to hopefully find a diagnosis and hopefully a treatment for that. So she's holding her own, and if she were not, I would bring her home. 

I am really looking forward to seeing her tomorrow. 

SO! That's it. Basically nothing much but information that they are trying to use. WOW-HUGE post for that!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Being super nosy must be a trait of the female GSD! Thanks for the update. Now I can go to bed - I've been up since 4:30


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

An update!









Gosh, everything is so complicated with Nina. She never presents a simple case, does she? 

Thanks for updating and I hope they figure something out soon...like tomorrow morning!


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Thanks Jean for taking the time to keep us updated!


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*



> Quote:
> (sounds like the word augmentin but isn't)


Omentum -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omentum I'm not finding much on inflamed canine omentum here. Darn google. 

Well, it sounds pretty good overall. I like checking off boxes. And Nina is in the best hands, other than being at home with you, of course. At least Gladys is in a high activity area to keep her busy.









I love House. I play along, like a game show

I'll keep playing. Sometimes it's just something unusual but easy to fix once diagnosed. Let's pray that's all it is. Just a simple little malady and she just needs is the right pills and lots of rest.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

I am thinking it's possible with the testing they are doing tonight/tomorrow that MAYBE tomorrow will have some kind of answers. I have a meeting from 1-? tomorrow (so everyone knows there won't be any updates then







) and then I'll be driving down. She is really complicated. 

Her student just called and was very nice-Nina is sleeping right now after a big full meal and a long day of tests. They were doing the bile acids test so she said she gave Nina a smorgasbord (sp) of foods which she gobbled right up. Then she fed her again and Nina said "Young lady, I've had enough-I don't eat that often, ya know!" (am I getting weirder?







)

But what is really good for me is that she is relaxed. She is in a busy room and doing well with it all. I think this is something that she could not have done 3 years ago when I got her-she just learned over time, that going to the vet office (because she has done that a lot) is a good thing. 

AH! I also play along with House-and the show Mystery Diagnosis. It's like a mental gymnastic thing-without the whole knowledge thing getting in the way!







I am also trying to do that with Nina-not as much fun-but yes, please feel free to play along. 

Aunt Nina, Nina Beans, NiniTettrazini, Gladys Kravitz...by any name-a lot of people are thinking of her!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean I was going to ask about the spleen. It could be enlarged because it is trying to work overtime.

WOW warning this is a real picture of a spleen, live, stomach and intestine http://trc.ucdavis.edu/mjguinan/apc100/modules/Circulatory/bloodlymph/spleen0/spleen3.html

This link has the Functions of the Spleen:
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/structure-and-function-of-the-spleen-in-dogs/page1.aspx

Hoping they figure out what has Miss Nina feeling sick. 

Val


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*



> Quote:"Young lady, I've had enough-I don't eat that often, ya know!"


Actually, she said, "Missy, you're coming home with me. My mom, although a lovely woman, doesn't cook for me nearly often enough." 

Weird, who, us? We can start free-associating at any time if you want REALLY weird, or talking politics if you'd like a distraction.

Poor Val. She's trying so hard to be serious with us when we start going off the deep end a bit. Like a teacher in a room full of hyper fourth graders. I so admire her.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Well that is ok, we need both the serious and you silly kids.

Actually I could see Nina saying


> Quote:"Young lady, I've had enough-I don't eat that often, ya know!"


 Looking the Tech in the eyes with just a little bit of a head tilt. Body language saying.... GEEZE young lady don't YOU understand what I am saying, ya know I am far older and wiser than you.


----------



## ded37

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean: I have been selfishly pre-occupied and have not been on the Health Issues thread and not really on the Board that much at all this week. I am so sorry I did not see this about Nina until we were "chatting" and you had to direct me to it.

You know how I feel about Cornell, especially with Max and Nell.

Nina is in excellent hands, I know you realize that.

I know the waiting game is soooo hard.

Hugs to you and Nina and the whole gang! I will now watch this thread for updates.

Everyone who posted has Nina and you in their thoughts/prayers.

Darcy


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Well......

That is good news I think. Hope tomorrow goes well and they pin down and treat this infection and Nina gets to go home.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Glad to hear Nina seems to be taking it all in stride. I do hope they can pinpoint what's going on soon so Nina can rejoin her buddies in Jeanpackistan.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean, thank you for the update. You must be so tired.









Hope both you and Nina have a









Good thoughts and Reiki energy coming your and Nina's way and an








watching over her.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Thanks for the update I only logged on to read this. At the very least Nina is eating well and getting loving attention. It sounds as if she is in the right place to find out what is going on and then how to deal with it. I'm thinking of you all.





































I'll check back later.


----------



## dd

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean - best wishes going out to Nina and hoping she is home soon and on her way to recovery.


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean, Nina's story is the only thing I am checking (keep coming back to the board all day







).....hoping for a good update soon!!! Hugs to you and your pack!!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Just checking in and then have to be off line until late tonight. I hope they figure out what's going on with Miss Nina today and that she gets to come home!


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/17*

Jean I am glad Nina is being such a good tropper through all of the poking and proding. You are awefully lucky though that I have NOT redone the flooring yet. (back to pacing and waiting pacing and waiting....)


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina-update 9/18*

I think Nina's been saying a lot of things to those people at Cornell. Mostly nice, but do not push it! I think she's being a good breed rep though-that mix of sweetness and then HEY-I said don't push it! They said she gives them a little cross eyed look when they are annoying her-I've seen that look before! 

I haven't heard anything yet this morning. Which makes me a little nervous-but that's how I roll.









Is it not the best that we have people all over the world rooting for infection! Gimme an I...gimme an N...

Val with her classroom! 

But I am really hoping for an infection too. 

Thank you for the Reiki-I really don't understand it, but know that I have seen it work for me and for the dogs. Kramer got some from his Reiki lady and fence fought with my foster Jaeger yesterday (and ran-he can't run-it's impossible-but he did it-Kramer loves the feeling of aggression-need to remember that). 

And thank you all for the good wishes and thoughts. Doesn't it feel like she's been there for months? When did I take her-it was Tuesday! 

I am going to a meeting at 1:00 (another great moment in inattention I am sure) and after Kramer and I are going to the beautiful (sunflower field) Abbey to get some of their baked goods for me to take down as a thanks to her vets, and maybe, if I can find a talking Brother, get a blessing for him and Nina. 

Then I will take probably both Mariele and Bruno with me to see Nina. She likes those two little monsters. 

Okay-they just called-she's stable, had some breakfast, still has a temperature and is happily watching everything that is going on. I let them know she likes ice cubes if they have any and can give them to her. 

SO I won't be around until probably after 9 tonight by the time I get back. 

I will try to text Melinda if I have any news. And will take my camera to get some pictures of our visit. 

Thank you all again!
I am going to get everyone tired (as much as possible) before my meeting.


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

We'll be thinking of you Jean!!!!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean thanks for checking in for all of us. Pictures would be nice.

Wow glad to hear about Kramer, be sure to tell Nina that her buddy is feeling better.

Stable is good, but I wish the temp would go down. Hopefully they can figure out what is going on and get the correct protocal started soon. 

Yea me and my classroom. My feeling is Knowledge is power, I want to understand what my Vet is talking about. When unsure I ask them if they can bring down to a lay persons level, most of the time they are really good about doing that.

OK sending my Cyber hugs to Nina. 

Val


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I realized my temp was up and my neck was swollen (it does this often-but today I was looking very "frog in need of a mate" in terms of my neck







), so I was able to postpone my meeting until Monday. So now I can rest, get these other poor dogs so tired they will beg to go in their beds, and be all prepared (Nina's food in labeled bags, Nina's supplements and treats in labeled bags-things that make me feel like I am doing something) before I go. 

I am definitely going to tell her about Kramer. I won't tell her that Kramer has been using the casa de Nina for crate rest!









That temp up is really bugging me. I am going to ask about IV abx or fluids if they are not doing them-just want to know why not. 

I love your classroom-you have us being silly and us being serious! And keeping us going. 

I will most definitely pass on the hugs.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Another groupie of Jean's pack hoping for something simple with only one known cure: Arby's.

Best wishes floating north,

Mary Jane


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Good luck tiring the rest of the pack Jean. I will have to head up to the PC we can surf on at work on my last break for an update.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh Jean, before Nina comes home you better wash all the bedding. She will be PO'ed at Kramer.

I will stop back later tonight to see about an update.

I am a bit suprises that they are only giving one ABX, especially since it doesn't really seem that she is responding. 

Val


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Checking in and settling in with my Popcorn and Pepsi - keeping the thoughts zooming east....


----------



## ded37

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

It's almost 9 - hoping we hear something from Jean or Melinda soon


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Waiting oh so patiently


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I finally got back on-line and didn't find any updates.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I don't know. Maybe they are going to let Jean have a sleep over with Nina and the dogs she brought to visit..... Now wouldn't that make a cute picture Jean curled up with three dogs.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Hey Barb, if you don't stop with the Pepsi you will be awake for the next 24 hours.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Then she can stay up and watch for updates!!!!! LOL!!!


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Barb,

Stop using the same emoticons! That's cheating. We need something to keep us awake! Try this instead









I look like this right now









And Cleo looks like this...except she's gray









I think I will take Rafi for his long walk and then HOPEFULLY we'll hear something.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I think Jean is playing with us... I see she is online.....


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Crikey it is 1115 on your side of the country. It is bedtime for me in an hour..... when do you people sleep?


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Kathy, I was wondering the same thing!!!


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

pacing and waiting and pacing and waiting and pacing









Could they have been ....









*NO! they couldn't ...*.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

In WI it is only 10:25 but here it is 11:25. I am a night owl and I usually work late and then sleep late. 

Val has super powers and can see the invisible people on line!









I think that is the coolest emoticon I've ever found!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I just got back. Our visit was longer than I thought. 

It was not the happy visit I was hoping for, but it was great to see Nina. 

They think they have an idea of what is going on, and will know more tomorrow, but it looks like even though there isn't a tumor, there are cancer cells-many abnormal cells that they got from the liver aspirate. They are not going to say anything specific because they can't-because they don't yet know. Pathology and oncology will look at everything and try to figure out if it is cancer, what kind. 

I probably could have brought her home tonight and put her on steroids, but after all this, want to know what it is so that I have a better idea of what I need to expect, so that I can deal with everything in a way that's the best for Nina. 

The IV abx haven't knocked the fever down-after a week of abx total-and that is another sign. 

I may not be making a lot of sense-I don't have a lot of information yet or confirmation from pathology. It was hard to hear and the poor thing was laying on the floor waiting for her next biscuit, so sweetly. I am hoping that without any more testing oncology and pathology can come up with enough information to get Nina home soon and so that I can make any decisions that need to be made. 

Bruno was leery of going near her-which was a bad thing-he's kind of an empath and will shake if someone (person or animal) is in pain, and can alert to a lot of different things. He was protective of her Monday, but tonight he was avoiding her-I think when she gets home and is not so tired (they walk her FOUR times a day-lol-I am sure she's thinking you gotta be kidding me) he'll be okay with her. But she was happy to see him and Mariele and wanted to leave with us. 

On the good side, she enjoyed her double cheeseburger that I brought and had a lot of treats while we were there. I am going to spoil the crap out of her. 

She's been a great girl for everyone there and they kept saying how sweet she is-that's the word for her. 

I am sorry I don't have a better report-I know we were all hoping for an infection and they were too-she said they kept trying to prove infection and just could not. 

She recommend I keep a journal when Nina comes home, of how she's eating, moving, etc. and I thought that was a good idea. I am also going to make sure we go places and do things she likes (eating, sitting, watching) for as long as she can. 

So I guess that's it for tonight-tomorrow I have a meeting at 11 and Kramer and Anna have vet appts at 2 so I am hoping to have details sometime after that, and am really hoping I can bring her home soon (though I am wondering if Kramer and Nina can share that kennel together-like Felix and Oscar)! 

Thanks again for checking on her and posting those great messages and graemlins! I really appreciate it.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh crap. I am sorry, Jean. I hope you will just go get her tomorrow even if they don't know exactly what's going on. I know she will be much happier at home.

And I bet that place smells really scary to Bruno so I wouldn't worry too much about his reaction. 

I will continue to send good thoughts her way. I wish that darn fever would go down but I am glad that she continues to have a healthy appetite.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh no! I am so sorry. I will continue holding Nina and you and your crew in the light.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I think she kind of likes it there! I think if I could live in the building, with the pack, and she could hang out in that room with all the dogs and people, she would! She is that relaxed-this girly would not have been able to deal with this at all a couple of years ago, now she likes the attention and care. 

I am thinking I will probably get to get her tomorrow or Saturday. So much for my gas protest! 

They said if she starts pred, her fever will break. 

PS-I hate cancer-I didn't realize that the markers we have for certain cancers, they haven't yet identified in dogs. Things like the PSA test...not in dogs.









I'll do all the things you're supposed to do (grain free, etc.) so that she has the healthiest possible life-except for burgers and stuff like that. 

Just thinking of stuff out loud here.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I am glad she is so content to be there but if she stays there much longer some of the younger dogs in your pack are going to have to get jobs!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh Jean, you must be just exhausted. If it isn't an infection, just bring Sweetie home and spoil the crap out of her. Love her and live each day as it her last. Lots of pictures, lots of pictures. Quality time at her sweet age is better than quanity time.

I am going to give my dogs their night treats and go curl up with my sweetie DeeDee.

Val


----------



## kelso

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Dang it, not sure what to say except many thoughts and prayers to sweet Nina and you.
Glad she enjoyed her double cheese.
Thanks for taking the time to update as well, you must be tired!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I am tired! Lots of pictures for sure and as much as we can do that she likes-she's just so easy. 

Thanks, moei. 

Yes-I know-Mariele is already doing secretarial work and Ava is looking for a job as we speak! I just want to get everything in order before she leaves-I don't want them needing anything else out of her.


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Sorry to hear the news.









You and Nina are in my prayers.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Well poop (Said that once already tonight, guess that just makes tonight a poopy night)
Ok, I'm doubling the thoughts heading east!


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI think she kind of likes it there! I think if I could live in the building, with the pack, and she could hang out in that room with all the dogs and people, she would! She is that relaxed-this girly would not have been able to deal with this at all a couple of years ago, now she likes the attention and care.
> 
> I am thinking I will probably get to get her tomorrow or Saturday. So much for my gas protest!
> 
> They said if she starts pred, her fever will break.
> 
> PS-I hate cancer-I didn't realize that the markers we have for certain cancers, they haven't yet identified in dogs. Things like the PSA test...not in dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do all the things you're supposed to do (grain free, etc.) so that she has the healthiest possible life-except for burgers and stuff like that.
> 
> Just thinking of stuff out loud here.


Sorry to hear the news, I have some suspisions, but hopefully they will find out it is something simple. Grainfree is easy - and she can keep having the bugers, just don't give her the buns. We are thinking of you and sending positive thoughts to both of you. Hang in there!


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I'm sorry to hear the news isn't the greatest. Let's hope it's not as bad when we find out what's actually going on. Will keep you and Nina in our thoughts. *HUGS*


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean I am sorry the news wasnt as good as we had all hoped but we are still praying and wishing for some answers and that all important game plan.







to you and Nina and "the pack". Bruno sounds an aweful lot like Tika. Tika is usually a bubbly happy go lucky girl but her moods can chage incredibly quick if she senses something wrong with a human or canine. Hindsight showed me that she knew before I did that Phoenix had issues before he was visably showing signs.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Ugh, that sucks that they still don't know what's going on and that she can't come home yet.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean, you need a cookie and a toy to chew on, too. You have been through so much! Nina







is enjoying her spa retreat, hogging center stage... hoping her staff can keep the paparazzi away. Nina is in really great hands, it sounds like. What would help Jean right now? Am hoping that you are getting enough to drink and are eating as well as you can. Wishing you extra hugs from the huggables in your Packistan.

Maybe the news isn't infection per se, and there are "abnormal" cells.. the liver is somewhat large..and she's had some many odd infections.. any chance dogs can get cirrhosis? A dear friend has had deep skin infections, flus, pneumonias, GI infections etc for over 2 years-- just learned she has cirrhosis. She's doing super with a new diet program and green tea and meds. Or would the U/S have shown cirrhosis on Nina? Just thinking aloud here.

I am sending good vibes and energy that whatever Nina has isn't as bad as you fear. Let's get a nice, firm diagnosis-- and let's send energy towards it being something manageable!









I have no cute emoticons, just a funny from real life for you:
Grimm is learning to mark on walks. His male genes & "goofiness" genes are being expressed simultaneously. He walked up to a tree today. Sniffed and found THE spot. He walked forward just enough steps to align his hips with the tree properly. Then, he hiked his leg-- THE WRONG ONE. Tree was on LEFT, Grimmi hikes his RIGHT leg. DUH?! He peed out into space with a proud, content expression on his face.







He's been doing goofy stuff since he tried to learn to mark a few weeks ago. Hope it gave you a brief chuckle!

Prayers streaming across the time zones, across the ocean, across the two continents for sweet, wonderful Nina. Paws crossed here that the next update brings a real diagnosis-- and NOT as worrisome as you fear! May Nina be on her way home to spoiling, and you feel some sense of relief. Sending prayers that things are better than expected!


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Even if it was not the best news, it is still not the worst news. She wants to come home and she will be home shortly. That is always good in my opinion. Quite a few months ago a friend's labrador underwent surgery and he is an old, old boy and despite finding suspect cells he is doing fine. Once her temp is down, I'm sure Nina will be feeling much better too! Hugs to you both, my friend.









Jean's pakistan rules!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Thank you all again-I really appreciate it. They called this morning and said she had a good night, still eating well, and going out okay. The slides are with pathology so now we wait for those results. 

That Grim story made me







That is hilarious! He is the best goober ever. And goober is meant in the best possible way. 

Nina's nervous visitors:









With her student and her vet (I didn't ask them if I could post them on the internets so I cropped them out):









Ahhhhhhh, I am getting a lot of love here-


----------



## ded37

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean - we will take "she had a good night"!!

Great to see pictures of Nina! Everyone at Cornell is very loving and caring with their patients, she is in good hands. I know it is so hard to leave her there. I have had to do it several times now.

Interesting about Bruno. He and Mariele are worried too. 

Take care of yourself. Nina will need you to be strong and rested (easier said then done) when she comes home.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh, look at Bruno's ears... I'm glad Nina's brother and sister got to visit. That will give her a sense of normalcy. Looks like she's enjoying the attention, but gosh it's hard to look at those pictures. It's hard to see her with the shunt and bandages...

Hoping for the best, Jean. Give that beautiful girl a big hug from all of us: Me, DH, Murph, Taz, Chessy, Jacki, Lucy and Sammy


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

She had a good night! That IS good!! News from path will probably be in soon, and I am praying very hard that it is something much easier than you fear. May this be something manageable. Paws crossed here for NinaGrrrl!!

Yup Jean, Grimm is totally a goober.







You're diagnosis is spot-on!

Mariele and Bruno did a good thing in visiting. I notice Bruno really does have the Kramer mini-me thing goin', and that Mariele looks adorable in her flowery collar and lead. I am sure they sense the other dogs there being unwell... and smell all the vet smells. They may not be reacting to Nina's condition at all. SO glad Miss Nina on her royal, regal purple towels got her devoted furry fans to come visit her!

Prayers still being sent your way and Nina'a too.......


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANThe IV abx haven't knocked the fever down-after a week of abx total-and that is another sign.


Jean, I skimmed back through some of your posts but didn't see it - what was her temperature up to? Just curious how it compares to Dena's - I have no idea what is considered seriously high for a dog since their normal temp is higher than a humans.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

<span style="color: #000099">Oh Jean ! I just saw this (I haven't been on in awhile)

Great big hugs and prayers for you and Nina!









I am here if you need to talk...remember I have been there, done that. 

Cornell is the best,Nina is in excellent hands. </span>


----------



## dd

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean - so sorry to hear about Nina. Glad she is in such good paws, though. Best to you and the pack. I know the pack will keep her spirits up.


----------



## luvmysheps

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean, I have been lurking and not posting. 

Am praying for Nina here, and all paws are crossed for better news.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean, I am glad that Nina had a good night. This is a VERY good thing. I will be in and out today as I take two of mine to the vet later too. Will be checking back for updates.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I had a nice meeting just now-totally distracting with two Friday thinking people where we ended up talking about bringing a goat to a health fair-I am not sure how...but we did. Stuff like that and reading these posts-you guys are the best. 

I am also happy with the good night-I think all those walks get her tired! Not to mention the procedures. At least she likes hospital food.









Yeah, I didn't look at the shunt and bandage at first-or where she'd been shaved in her belly area. I was like la la la I don't see that. And she was having trouble walking-but I guess it's just the slippery floors. They are using a sling on her now but they said it's just because of the floors and she is fine outside. She doesn't like slippery much anyway so I think she's doing well. 

Bruno is a total Kramer mini me.







He wants to be Kramer. It's very cute to watch him watch Kramer.

Her temp is around 103.8 consistently at this point. When she was sick last year it had hit the 105 and that's when they started her on injectible abx. I know-I am worried about Dena! Dena and Nina! 

Thank you all again. I am taking Kramer for his Adequan and Anna for her yearly visit at the regular vet in a little bit-so I am hoping maybe they will have heard something (and can actually understand it) or could explain more to me what could be happening.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh Jean, I just saw this,
Big hugs to you and Nina!

Lots of prayers for the two of you!! {hugs}


----------



## GSDLoverII

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Lots of prayers for the two of you!! {hugs} 


Ditto that.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Thanks for the Pictures. Ya know how we all love pictures....

I am glad she had a good night. She really appreciated her pal's visiting her. 

I am interested in hearing what Pathology says.

I will be back later, maybe Jean will have new.

Val


----------



## daniella5574

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and Nina and sending hugs your way.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Well, I am getting ready to take the other dogs out to play. 

Thanks again for checking on her! 

They got her a waterbed-so she's a little more comfy-I am very glad. Her appetite is not as great today (or she's waiting for burgers) and I am wondering if that fever is really getting to her. 

They called-I thought it was good news-it looks like lymphoma. But it's not as great as that sounds. 

They would have to do two more tests-a bone marrow aspirate and a biopsy-in order to do chemo. The chemo would likely only give her two additional months, according to the oncologists from their preliminary findings (given her liver damage so far, lymph node involvement, etc). I don't even think doing those tests to use it as palliative short-term care weigh out.









I might be able to do better, in my thinking???? with just the pred and pain management, and complementary therapies like Reiki, accupuncture, nutrition, supplements, etc. With that, the idea is that she would have weeks to a couple of months. 

Isn't it awful to talk in terms of these numbers? Just unreal. It makes me sick. 

But I am thinking if it were two wonderful months, using the 4 hours we'd spend driving to Cornell each week for chemo to do fun things every day, to go places and let her eat things she likes, if we can keep her pain free...it might be as close as we could get to a win. 

And if we keep her on an abx, with the pred, she might not have as great a chance of having her infections come back? As she would with a stronger immunosuppressant like chemo-that is just a guess on my part. 

They are calling back later tonight. If I decide to do more tests, she's there over the weekend (and selfishly that alone is making me want to not do more tests) and into next week. If I decide to go with the pred, they will start her on an IV of it to break the fever, and I believe I could pick her up tomorrow. 

So, I am going to out with the other dogs and try to mull this over. I am leaning toward the pred. heavily. 

Thanks again.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Aweeeee Jean I am sorry it isnt better news but I would have to agree with your thinking of spending quality time with her. The way I understand it if she goes through chemo it would suppress her already compromised immune system which _could_ lead to those pesky infections of hers to come on stronger?


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I would recommend joining the LymphomaHeartDogs group and reading the posts there. There are dogs of all ages owned by people who want nothing but the best for their dogs. The different protocols are discussed and the good and the bad.

I am kind of surprised by this diagnosis, since she has been under pretty serious veterinary care - maybe they are wrong???

I would suggest that regardless of what you decide to do, definately put her on a grainfree diet and get the DHA. Stop all other antioxidents. I don't know if you use the gluta DMG or not, but this will help protect her liver and support her immune system. Rainers blood values increased alot when I started him on it last year. She might be eliable for one of the studies that they are doing at the vet schools back east. there is a vaccine that they have been testing I think.

Sorry about this news, my thoughts and prayers are with you both.


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

OMG, Jean, what choices.







I am sorry to hear this latest for you and Nina.

I would not presume to offer an opinion on which route to take, but I understand your need (and Nina's) to bring her home and offer the best possible hugs, treats and love.

My heart is with you.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

My Niko got 4 pretty good months with prednisone, Baytril, once a week IV fluids and B12 shots. Plus a low carb home cooked diet.

I'm so sorry Jean. I know how much it hurts. Niko crossed the bridge 13 months ago and I still cry.

Joanne


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

((((Jean)))) I cannot go to bed tonight without sending you well-wishes and hugs. Nina is SO lucky to have you on her staff! I so wish the news were better. I think whatever you decide will be what is best for Nina. You know how to spoil her the best. Grimmi sends licks to both of you. Praying for you and for Miss Nina!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean, with her Immune system problems I would be also not be thinking about Chemo. There are some things out there that can help. I think Tammy (TMarie) has had good success with Jake using cottage cheese (until she remembered he was allergic to milk) and Flax Seed Oil. I think she went grain free also.

Val


----------



## dd

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean - so sorry to hear this. I agree that your best option is palliative care. Have a whale of a time together and enjoy each day to the fullest.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

_Sigh_


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh Jean, I am so sorry to hear this









You probably already have, but be sure to read all the links in that thread of Tami's and Jake's. I don't think I would do chemo either. 

Give Nina lots of smooches. 

It was asked above, did the tell you what the odds are that they are wrong?


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Hi everyone-

They haven't called yet tonight (the hours these vets work are just unreal) with the update on the staining of the slides, so it is possible that something was wrong. It is always possible, right! They have gone through a lot of tests, but they seem to have even more. Honestly it's like the Mayo clinic. 

Thanks for all the support, links and information. ALL is appreciated-no matter what you say-I know people post from the heart. 

I am going to do it up with the supplements as long as she accepts them-and am interested in injectible B12 and the fluids (I could do at home-or no?). I am going to read these threads and things and see what we can do. 

Nina never asks for anything. She is happy to be one of many and happy to have attention-either way, she's happy-so I hope she likes all the focus that will be on her.









This is going to sound a little dumb-but is this grain free-right now I can't even comprehend an ingredient panel! http://www.natureslogic.com/products/dp_dry_lam.html I'll probably cook for her too-Kramer's been eating real foods lately, so they can eat together. 

Unless they tell me something way different when they call, I am going to ask that they start the pred and see if I can pick her up tomorrow.









Thank you again.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh--how weird and awful!








Are her lymph nodes swollen? 

Chama's beloved best friend, Petie, who was my former SO's sheltie, had lymphoma. I noticed his lymph nodes in his neck were swollen and took him and we discovered he was in the advanced stages. He was 6.5 years old. This was 8 years ago. We looked into chemo and, at the time, the chemo was really harsh so my SO opted not to do it. She also decided not to do pred b/c Petie had been on it previously and had not done well at all--he was peeing about every 10 minutes and was miserable. So I cooked him a special diet and we spoiled him every day for the next 6 weeks. 

Shortly thereafter a gsd who was adopted out through Basu's rescue was diagnosed with lymphoma. They did opt to do the chemo but the dog was suffering so terribly from the chemo side effects that they stopped after a few weeks of treatment. 

I don't know if the chemo is better now but given Nina's immune system, if she were my dog I would go pick her up tomorrow and spoil the **** out of her every day from now on. 

I am sending you big hugs and Rafi is sending Nina sloppy kisses.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Yes, that food is grain free. 

I'm putting in my vote for power mushrooms: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Health-Concerns-Power-Mushrooms/105001.aspx


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh Jean. I'm sorry to hear it's not better news. I know you'll make the best choice for Nina as you know her best. Either way, spoil her rotten. She looks like she deserves it.







What a happy girl she is even being in the hospital.

B12 injections can be given at home and they're pretty easy to do. I was giving them to Risa earlier this year for her SIBO. The only problem I had was getting the caps off the needles.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

The B12 and fluids are things you can do at home. I brought Niko into the vet to do it because I'm a fainter - I can't do needles.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I just found this. That explains the abdomen connection. The most common (80%) is the multicentric form. 

Lymphosarcoma (lymphoma) is a malignant cancer that involves the lymphoid system. In a healthy animal, the lymphoid system is an important part of the body's immune system defense against infectious agents such as viruses and bacteria. Lymphoid tissue normally is found in many different parts of the body including lymph nodes, liver, spleen, gastrointestinal tract and skin. Lymphosarcoma is classified according to the location in the body in which the cancer begins.

These include:

# The multicentric form occurs in the lymph nodes.

*# The gastrointestinal form occurs in the stomach, intestines, liver and lymph nodes in the abdomen.*

# The mediastinal form occurs in the mediastinum, in front of the heart in an organ called the thymus. Hence this form of lymphosarcoma sometimes is called thymic lymphoma.

# The cutaneous form occurs in the skin.

# Acute lymphoblastic leukemia occurs when the disease starts in the bone marrow.

# Miscellaneous forms of lymphosarcoma are less common and include those that begin in the nervous system, nasal cavity or kidneys.

# In dogs, the most common form of lymphosarcoma is the multicentric form (80 percent of all dogs with lymphoma have this form). Frequently, owners notice lumps under the neck or in other locations. These lumps represent the enlarged lymph nodes. Dogs still may feel normal at this point in the disease or may have vague symptoms such as lethargy or decreased appetite. The other forms of lymphosarcoma are much less common in dogs.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oy vey! Dang!









I am just coming off narcs after the surgery (hardware removal) of this morning, and I was hoping for some good news about Nina. Dang it! Phooey!









I know you will make the best decision for Nina because you love her and know her best. Whatever route you choose, know that I will keep Nina, you and your crew in the Light.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh Jean! I am so sorry to hear this diagnosis. Love her and spoil her an keep her happy self happy as long as you can. (((((((HUGS)))))))


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I'll be keeping you and Nina in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

<span style="color: #000099"> {{{Hugs and Prayers}}}

Have you googled Tumeric/Curcumin and Cancer? Some promising info and it can't hurt.

Maybe the "Navy Protocol" would help her?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2002-07-24-cover-cancer_x.htm

I think he had lymphoma also...</span>


----------



## ded37

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Jean, I don't have any helpful advice - just follow your gut and trust yourself. Nina is in the best hands with her mom when it comes to quality of life. I am hoping Nina can come home soon. Hugs. Darcy


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Aaaahh ........... Sweet Nina. 

All I can add is being at home, while not always a panacea, is the best place to be ----- no matter the ailment. Kisses to Nina and hugs to Jean. We'll be there for all of you no matter the prognosis.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

I had them start her on the pred last night. 

When her student called at 8 or so she said they are gurneying her out to the bathroom now and that concerned me. I was really worried that in waiting for more testing I would lose her or she would start a chemo in really bad shape and that she would just go even further down from there. She is tired, her fever is only down slightly (103.2 which is getting closer to normal I guess) and is unable to move-has to be turned every four hours. She was able to get up a little better than that on Tuesday. Once she's up she can walk, but is resting more when they get her outside. 

When her vet called, she was very much wanting me to give her permission to do the pred (because I had told the student I was leaning that way) and practically was filling the IV when she hung up. She never rushes on the phone-but she did last night-because she wanted to get that pred started. After I made it an official decision, she said it was a good one. I think Nina may be worse than I think she is. BUT I am holding out hope that we can still trick that cancer for a while. She's on the IV pred now, and then will be on prednisilone (easier on the liver). 

So it's started, and I am hoping that there is some kind of noticeable result from it today. If there is, I think she could come home this evening (do those people ever go home?). Or they might keep her until tomorrow-not sure but I will let them decide which is better and won't put my wanting her home over her need to be observed and adjusted for meds, etc. 

The pain management doctor is going to do acupuncture on her today-she really wanted to and is going to do it for no charge. They were very glad I gave permission for that (are you kidding me!). She is going to use the electrical charge. I was like do it, do it, do it. 

That vet called at 9:36 last night and still wasn't done. The stains hadn't finished cooking or whatever either-but I said I didn't care. 

The student also told me that Nina is no longer in a kennel-they are keeping her on the floor by their worktable on the water bed with her IV. That way she's not as stiff and uncomfortable and they can turn her more easily. They said she's being very good that way and is tired-she has to be exhausted. She has a very low general activity level anyway. 

Three years ago though, they tried that and someone would have lost a leg! Now she loves people and loves to be loved. I am going to ask about getting that waterbed for her. 

SO that's it and I just want her to hold on and wait for me to come get her, bring her home, and give her whatever she wants/needs. 

Thank you all for your continued concern and well wishes, energy and thoughts.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Oh baby Nina! Sending you some
















to you Jean.


----------



## valleydog

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

Stay strong and know there's no better care that she could be receiving. Hope you are together at home soon.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-update 9/18*

While Nina is being good (thanks to you) she is probably homesick as well. Jean, you are doing everything right just .... please take care of yourself too!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina-update 9/20*

So...her internist called and the stain results came back. She has the T cell lymphoma and not the B cell. B is better. Argh. T is more aggressive, goes faster. 

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/10500.htm like Ruth said, she has the GI form. It's kind of like bad news on top of bad news. 

I am going to ask about this: http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/lomustine-ceenu/page1.aspx but have no idea-but it never hurts to ask. 

Found this outline of the Wisconisin protocol and thought that the pred was the right choice: http://daveola.com/Zoo/Kodi/Health/Madison.html

I am going to ask about the Navy protocol though. Thanks, Vickie! Oh, it kind of looks like it IS a chemo? I don't know!


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*








Jean







Nina My thoughts and prayers are with you at this time.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Poor Nina! 

Will you be able to pick her up today? I don't mean to scare you but she could go downhill very quickly (having been through this) and I think it's important that you get as much quality time with her as possible while she's still feeling ok. 

I will research more herbal options for you later this afternoon. Btw, I was in Madison, WI when Petie got lymphoma and the people I knew that were doing chemo were doing it through the vet school there (you mentioned the WI protocol).


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean,

There is a dog on the yahoo list who has t-cell and has been in remission since her first treatment in Dec 2005. She has been receiving some form of chemo since finishing her protocol, but is stopping now due to kidney issues. I would go check out what some of the other people on the list have been through - the good and the bad. I think this will help you with questions you might want to take with you. Cornell has a top notch oncolgy department and can offer you some suggestions on giving Nina the best quality of life in the future.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean, I am so sorry it isnt better news. Many many more







s for you and Nina.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANSo...her internist called and the stain results came back. She has the T cell lymphoma and not the B cell. B is better. Argh. T is more aggressive, goes faster.
> 
> AAAARGH!
> 
> I am going to ask about the Navy protocol though. Thanks, Vickie! Oh, it kind of looks like it IS a chemo? I don't know!


Yes, the Navy protocol is chemo, just a different cocktail.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean, I'd go for quality of life too, even if that means she has less time. Better the time remaining be at home with you and her pack, enjoying life as best she can than in the hospital with strangers. So sorry you have to make this decision.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I'm sorry to hear of Nina's prognosis. But I know that whatever time she has left will be wonderful with a caring, loving owner like you Jean. *HUGS* to you both.


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*



> Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
> I will research more herbal options for you later this afternoon. Btw, I was in Madison, WI when Petie got lymphoma and the people I knew that were doing chemo were doing it through the vet school there (you mentioned the WI protocol).


FYI "MW" (Madison Wisconsin") is the "name" of one of the protocols used to treat lymphoma. It uses 6 different drugs (including prednisone) in a rotation over 19 treaments. It is the most expensive and has the highest rate od remsision and the longest survival rate. It is also the most expensive. There are many options available. Many times the dogs will "spring" back to health after one or two treatments as the cancer get knocked down pretty quickly. Being that you are dealing with Cornell, they can give you alot of advice, they treat alot of the dogs there and can tell you about what they have experienced. It is not the same as asking your regular vet for advice who only sees a few cancer cases. From my experiences, they will give you an honest assessment of what your options are and the best way to proceed for you girl.

PM or email me if you want. Hugs to you and Nina


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Thanks for the info-I am going to ask about it anyway, but don't think they'll do it because we didn't do any other testing. 

I am getting ready to join that yahoo group. Right now I am reading through this site and page http://www.caninecancer.com/herbs.html 

They did say with the chemo the expectation of time would be a couple of months. Which is why I went with the pred. 

She's going to call this afternoon-I am hoping to go get her tonight and am trying to come up with a list of things I might need/want to pick up.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I'm sorry Jean that the news wasn't better.
I don't have any words of wisdom or advice, just wanted to offer another


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I also didn't say thanks to everyone for their kind wishes. 

So far my list is mind blocked! I want to get her a baby for her bed that her sisters can't destroy! Not very practical...

Back to the reading. I feel like I am cramming for some awful final exam.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean I hope that you can bring Nina home this afternoon. I know that she enjoys being the center of attention but I feel that she needs to come home to you and her pack.

Typical Nina though, she couldn't have the better B-cell Lymphoma, not out girl she had to get struck with the bad one. 

For a bed how about the Memory Foam toppers you can get for beds. I know that Shopko has them. Also you might want to get a couple of those sheet thingies that go under kids sheets to protect the mattress. Talk about brain dead I can't even thing of the name of them.

Val


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Val they are sheet protectors. In a bind you can also buy the puppy pee pads and use those under her.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I'm sorry that the diagnosis isn't better. You know, of course, that Team Camper's hearts and prayers are with Nina, you and the rest of your pack...

Can the pain management specialist recommend someone closer to home, or give you protocols (and perhaps phone support) for a more local internist?


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I have a bunch of those sheet protectors -- they work great. Walmart has them for about $7 for the twin size. The crib size ones I didn't like (too small), so look in the regular mattress section, not the baby section. Walmart used to have those memory foam toppers cheap. I cut them up and layer them inside a regular zipper case from an old dog bed, and it works great. 

Jean, if you want someone that works with this herbal stuff professionally, and that has helped many cancer dogs, the person to contact is Marina Zacharias here: http://www.naturalrearing.com/coda/index.html . She is the one that helped with my friend connie and her "cancer dog" Sander: http://www.cinnamondog.com/ . I wouldn't hesitate to contact Marina for this situation, and she does do phone consults. 

Things like IP6 and essaic tea, come to mind, and some of the mushroom products. Everything mentioned in the posts above, so far, I know (from earlier research I've done) play a role in preventing and/or treating cancer, but you want to get the most bang that you can get right now. A quick look at that earlier merck link seemed like this might be a quick cancer. There might not be time for a learning curve, and it would be nice if you had someone to help you out. I'm looking at all of these great ideas being tossed out, but you will need somewhat of a focused plan, and you will need it very quickly. You can always modify it as you learn more, but the start might be the hardest.

I'm so sorry that your world has been turned upside down right now. I'm so glad that Nina will be home very soon.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Sent her an e-mail Lisa! 

Going to pick Nina up now.







Thank you all again.


----------



## mspiker03

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Hugs to you both!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I am glad Jean is going to pick up Nina. I am sure she needs to be home with her mom and dog pack.

Lisa, I am so glad you posted the information for Jean.

We all need to keep helping with positive healing vibes that Nina has some quality time with her pack. 

Val


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Left for vacation this morning and couldn't wait to get online for news. I'm sending lots of positive thoughts and healing vibes from Sanibel.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Positive vibes, good energy, and prayers sent that Nina absolutely enjoys her time being spoiled rotten, and enjoys hogging the limelight in the pack. ((((Jean)))) prayers of support for you during this time. You've been through so much-- but have your girl coming home with you now for some real quality snuggletime. *Hugs*


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I hope that Nina is home now and settling in comfortably. 

Please update when you get a chance. 

If you need info about waterbeds let me know because I bought Chama one this spring.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Gotta waterbed link?









Went down and picked up Miss Nina-she came charging in the room wagging her tail and I couldn't believe it! She looked much better. I was expecting her to look much worse. I had Mariele with me and they greeted each other nicely. 

Her fever is gone. At least for now-hopefully it will stay gone. The pred injections did their job. 

Her internist has been talking with the pain mgmt. people and the oncology group throughout her time there, so that is really helpful. Though we didn't get far with oncology in terms of treatment-we are all keeping a positive attitude. In fact, I am not going to speak of the L or C words in front of her and am going to keep upbeat with her. 

They gave me a discharge report and her new meds-the prednisilone, gabapentin, and clavamox. I wish she wasn't so pill savvy! They just suggested giving her pills throughout the day-that's kind of funny-I am going to have to set a timer or something. 

When we were leaving they used the sling I brought to help her and she motored! She was following Mariele and I and they said they hadn't seen her move so fast before-her tail was wagging-very sweet. They loaded her in the car, I gave her kisses then stopped and got her a plain burger and we were on our way. She played with a little piggy toy in the back seat for a second then went to sleep. 

I think she's comfortable-it's hard to tell because she's been put through the wringer and is tired. 

When we got home she wanted to get right in and in her bed, but I realized that without the sling, she really is having a hard time walking. Front end fine, back end just not cutting it-and then in her bed it was even worse-she gets kind of stuck. So I definitely will need to move her around and use the sling. Another timer-or maybe the same as the pills. 

I am not sure if that's going to be permanent, or is just because (like before) the fever was tiring and sapped her strength. I am hoping that is it. They gave me permission to do anything I wanted to do with her in terms of going to her groomer, for car rides-whatever she likes and tolerates. For the next couple of days I am going to let her rest and try to find a set up where she is most comfortable. 

Once I see that she is feeling better, or that she just stays the same and won't do any better, we'll go on some outings. 

She was just so happy to be in her bed and eat her ice-and I am so happy to have her home! 

Thanks again everyone-I read every kind comment and look up everything you reference even if I don't respond individually. I really appreciate it.


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Can you grind the pills up and put them in something? I have had good luck with this - maybe some tripe so she can taste it?

Glad to hear she is home and happy. You might want to make her bed in an x-pen so you can reach over and hook the sling around her to help her up from her bed. Maybe get her an egg crate bed so she doesn't sink in and get stuck. If you know anyone with doggy wheels this would be a help for her til she regains her strength.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean I am glad to hear that Nina made it home all safe and sound and is all snug in her bed. I take it the vets didnt let her take HER waterbed with her?


----------



## kelso

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Glad to hear Nina is home, Jean!
Just wanted to send some more good thoughts and say Nina looked beautious







in the pics you posted here, especially with her not feeling well.

Get some rest! you and Nina! And the pack


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Glad to hear she's home and was so glad to see you!









I'm sure she's exhausted, poor thing. 

She's in that giant playhouse thing, right? Is she slipping around in there or is her back end going out on her all of the time? Just trying to get a picture so we can give suggestions. 

I got the Canine Cooler Thermoregulating Bed. I bought it from here: http://www.positive-works.com/caninecool...CFRkyFQodpFFn-w

I got the medium but I think I would buy the large next time. it is very weird to move around and I have it on the tile in the kitchen, just in case it leakes.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Glad to hear she is home! 

Above all else, just love her!


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*








home Nina.


----------



## GSDLoverII

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*






















Home Nina


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*















home, Nina. Now begins the task of training Mom into fulfilling your smallest whim, eh?


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Hi Jean,

I am glad Nina is home. I am sure she is tired and happy to be home.

Here is a link I found for water beds not just a cooler pad but a complete nice soft waterbed.

http://www.petscapeproducts.com/index.cfm?action=cat.prodInfo&productID=151&categoryID=4

Val


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I'm so glad to hear Nina is home


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I am thinking of trying to get her to go in the x-pen. Last night that was my plan







but she beelined for her bed and there is no stopping a Nina on steroids! Even though I was supporting her end with the sling and holding her harness! She's adorable. But I am trying to get that pen set up for her-so it's comfy. 

I am going to look into grinding those pills. There is no way I am going to get them all in otherwise-I mean, that was what her student did, all day, as her job! 

I think that is the waterbed she had at Cornell, Val! Very neat! Thank you! I am going to see if anyone has it. 

I am going to PM Kayla about that cart. 

She absolutely insisted she go in the backyard this morning-the poor thing kind of kerplops when she stops walking, or when she squats to pee or poop. I keep hoping that she is going to get better before she gets worse. They were thinking that maybe a few days of rest and meds would get her hind end working again. 

Mario sniffed every square inch of her body. She's always been kind of like a grammy to him-where he could kiss and kiss her and she'd just sit there with a silly smile. They are a lot alike. 

I was reading the discharge info (four pages-they are thorough) and it said her prognosis with just the pred was a few weeks to a month. Can you believe that? Makes me feel crazy in my head to see it. Well, she doesn't know and I am not telling her, so we will get what we can get that is good. You just never know! 

She seems so happy to be home and in her bed. I am not happy with the decision I had to make because there was no good decision, but am okay with the decision that I did make. And I am glad that she is here and able to get spoiled (er?) and more love! 

Thanks again!


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Yup, go for the waterbed....I heard Nina ask for it







I am SO glad she is home and stable. Love every single minute - she'll have good and bad days, just as people do. Looking forward to pictures <hint,hint>.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean some times in life we really don't get to make decisions just plans. There was a little bit of a decision, try Chemo but that would give Nina maybe two more months. With Nina's complicated (nothing simple with this lady) Chemo may not have given her a real quality time. So She is home and happy to be with you and her pack. That is what is important. 

Tell her I SAID that she needs to take the pills. I don't know if you can get a Mortar and Pedestal (old fashion way to crush pills)

Found the new way to crush pills 
http://www.dynamic-living.com/product/twist-cap-pill-crusher/

LOL this looks like the same thing but made for Livestock about 1/2 the price
http://www.lightlivestockequipment.com/pill-crusher.asp


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Of course since we are talking about Nina she might enjoy watching you crush her pills in this Floral Mortar

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280245037519

Or you have a set of three old fashion looking white ones
http://www.azuregreen.com/Mortar.Pestle_Set_of_3_White/Page_1/LMOR3.html


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

That waterbed does look nice. The cooling pad thing is very popular around here though. Chama spends most of her time on it. So if you can't find that one locally I think the other one will work.

I have that pill crusher! It has made all the difference around here. 

As for the prognosis...we got 5 weeks with Petie and they told us 2-3. it is very shocking to be told that but the wonderful thing about it is that you know and can really make it count. Better buy some hamburger and start firing up the grill for Miss Nina!


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Whew! Glad she is home. I am sure she is too. 

I check in here every day. Thinking and praying lots. With you all the way. Stay strong Nina. 









Kelly


----------



## agilegsds

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Hi Jean, I just saw this now and am sending you and Nina tons of hugs and best wishes.

Although you've decided not to go the chemo route, I wanted to add this because we have been through lymphoma with our first Gordon Setter when he was 8 yo. His case was very hard to diganose as well because he didn't have any of the typical symptoms. By the time the University of Wisconsin diagnosed him at stage 5B (the most advanced) they had to bring him in on a guerney. I truly believed he was not going to be leaving there again. They started him on the chemo protocol and he walked out of there two days later looking and acting almost normal. He had very little side effects from the chemo. He went into remission and we had another two years with him. The protocol you posted looks familiar, although I don't think his lasted that many weeks. Actually, it's possible that the protocol was designed after his case, because they used him in textbools and curriculum. I ran into his vet tech recently and they're still talking about his unbelievable recovery 7 years later. (They remember him for other reasons too because he was one of those orange tag cases.)

Anyhow, I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, just wanted to share my experiences with the disease.

Take care.


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I want to throw up seeing this thread moved to this forum.
We're all here for you Jean, as you are for Nina.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Not liking the new location of this thread.









I just found a possible food for Nina when looking for something else:
http://www.rawadvantagepetfood.com/Default.aspx?tabid=18028

One of the reviews I read was from someone whose dog was diagnosed with lymphoma. They couldn't afford chemo and decided to treat holistically using this food. After 6 months their dog was still alive and doing great. It has essiac in it--the wonder cancer fighting herbs.


----------



## Kay13411

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Hey Jean, sorry I am just getting to this thread now, I can't tell you how glad I am that Nina is with you, she really landed in the right home. For the first time in a very long time I am speechless, this just took me surprise, I guess I though she would go on forever. I remember when she came to me at the clinic, you are right 3 years ago no one would want to mess with this girl, she is a true example of how much love you have given her and she feels safe with you. I really don't know what to say here, I have tears streaming down my face, and feel so many emotions I can not get them into words. Please know that I am thinking about you and Nina, please give her a kiss from me, right between the eyes, If I remember correctly this is where she likes them the most. Thank you for sharing the pictures of her, could you please share some of her having a grand ole time. 

Jean thank you for caring so much for her... My thoughts are with you both.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

OK guys don't go bashing on me because I moved the thread. Jean made the request, the first time I ignored it (sshhh don't tell her that) and the second request is when I moved it.

Jean didn't want to see other health issues pushed down because we all love Nina. So some comments made may end up being upsetting to her. She was only thinking of all the other health problems and fells that her post about Nina has turned toward "Preparing to Say Good Bye".

Val


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

No bashing!







It was just a punch in the stomach to see the post moved to this forum..........No one would ever want to upset Jean so maybe there were some poor choices of words........


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I know that is why I ignored Jean the first time she asked....


----------



## kshort

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*



> Originally Posted By: M&JIt was just a punch in the stomach to see the post moved to this forum..........


It sure is...

Jean, there is nothing I can say that will make this any easier, and I wouldn't even try. 

In retrospect, after losing Max in April, I wish I had known that I had more time with him. He went downhill in those 5 days and I was so frantic over trying to figure it out and coming to terms with it, that I regret not doing some things differently. I knew in my gut that he wasn't going to get any better, but I didn't admit that to myself until he was gone. I was so consumed with my grief and knowing that I was losing him, that I didn't even give him his favorite treat - ice cream. I know he forgives me for that, but how I wish we would have had some special time, instead of just sick time those last days.

I know whatever time the two of you have left will be extraordinarily special. Try to focus on just that. Make every single day count. Laugh and smile a lot, because Nina will definitely understand that.

Take care, dear Jean... My heart is breaking for you both.


----------



## Castlemaid

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Oh gosh, I am sorry Jean.








Doesn't matter how old our pups get, they are our babies and will always be our babies . . . 

My best wishes go out to you and Nina, and as usual I take inspiration and strenght in the loving, strong, respectful, honorable and humorous way you are dealing with this new challenge. 

Take care of Nina, and don't forget to take care of yourself too!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

I hope Jean is willing to share a little of her time left with Nina with us. What outtings she wants to do, how Nina is doing, If Nina is getting a nice soft water bed.. AND Oh Pictures and more pictures.

Val


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANI was reading the discharge info (four pages-they are thorough) and it said her prognosis with just the pred was a few weeks to a month. Can you believe that? Makes me feel crazy in my head to see it.


Oh, wow, no kidding.







So sorry the news wasn't better, but at least she's home.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean must be busy, scurrying to do Nina's bidding. Sending prayers and good thoughts to you Jean, and to Nina, too. I know the time spent will be special, deep, and wonderful for Nina. What a loved, spoiled girl she is and has always been under your loving care. 

Jean can do amazing things for needy dogs that nobody else can, and they just bloom under her care. I bet Nina is enjoying the TLC. Hoping she enjoys her waterbed! Good thoughts and prayers as Nina is home and eating up the attention. Sending positive energy that an easy way to smoosh pills presents itself, and that you and Nina get into a comfortable rutine for her meds. Am also hoping that her mobility stabilizes a bit with the fever down and the pred helping some too. Nina is where she is most comfy, home with Jean and the whole pack- sending prayers for good quality time to you Jean, and to Miss Nina.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Hi Everyone-
I pilled her this afternoon and it made me feel bad to shove the pills down her throat (well, I didn't exactly shove) but they told me to blow on her nose after the pill goes in-and that seemed to work somehow. So I am going to do that and leave her food as something she doesn't have to pick through-she started that yesterday they said. And she's been doing it today-she does not have the pred appetite I was expecting. 

Sandy-now that we've started the pred, we can't go back. Well, we could but the information is that it doesn't work so well in that order. I wish she had gotten this younger (??? that's an odd wish) or before her skin condition, or before her spondylosis/arthritis was so bad because then I would have felt like she had a better chance. Also the damned T cell type and the GI type. I hate that this is how it is. They said if she doesn't respond to the pred (which I THINK she is-but just maybe not today) she wouldn't respond to chemo.









BUT I think this information is HUGE for people to know-that with dogs and lymphoma, particularly the normal kind, they can go into remission for a couple of years. 

Today has not been good-blah-she can't walk really and hasn't wanted to eat. BUT she is eating her ice cubes like a champ and when I tried something different <gasp> and took her out front to potty she refused to go in the front yard, and then pulled me to the car and stood at the rear door waiting to go for a ride. So I thought that was good. Two checks in the quality of life column-ice and cars. 

If I hadn't taken a SOMA (I am trying to keep my back okay because carrying her around and all that driving started to get to me) I might have tossed her in







and taken her somewhere. I will have to tomorrow. 

I am going to call them tomorrow and ask why so puffy-I know pred makes you puffy but she's like a toad. I don't know if she's not able to get her fluids out or what. I am just glad she's home, even though everything freaks me out. 

Yeah-I actually was shocked to see her name in this section, even though I had requested it (twice as Val said-I knew she wanted to put her here as much as I did-which is not much). But I knew that we had to do it. [censored] 

I am going to avoid raw foods for her-just because I never have used them and don't want to start now. I am going to give her whatever she will eat though, even if it means kind of garbagey foods. I did get an e-mail back about some of those herby type things but the one thing concerning to me, and I have to write back and ask-is that one was all antioxidant stuff, and I have heard that they feed cancers. I also want to try not to tax her liver further-so that's another concern for me-because I can never find information like you can on "real" drugs about where they are processed through. But again-I really appreciate and look at every link and thing that people post, even if I don't go with them. 

Right now she's still in her big bed and not the x-pen. Again a thing where she likes it, dammit, and wants to go there and drags me there. I thought today I wouldn't upset her applecart so much. I have meetings at 10 (then home to let her out, do some drugs with her







) then at 1-3. I might see if my schedule will allow me to kind of take a week off the next week after this one-I can't remember my schedule right now at all! 

Kay-I was going to PM you but just couldn't. Everyone-when I was deciding with BrightStar whether or not I could foster Nina, Kay and her vet stepped up to board her for two weeks for nothing so that we could make sure she didn't bring in any kennel crud, as Anna had just had surgery. Nina was actually posted on this board. So she knew Nina before Nina became sweetie Nina!







She does like those kisses though. 

Kris-I think you are right. I am lucky to know I have the time and won't be in shock if something happens, won't be wondering what is wrong (I'll still be in shock and probably freak out) and have the understanding that hey, if she will only eat Arby's and Wendy's (I hope not!!!!) that's what she gets. Of course, I think she could do without all my high pitched, off key and annoying singing of her name...









I am trying to get some pictures and appreciate being able to share with people who care. She is just a pup, isn't she?

Val-I am working on getting some pictures. This morning I didn't do such a good job. Hoping for a sunnier day tomorrow. 

I am also really hoping for some increased mobility. I am glad she is home, and an interesting thing, Ava, who has always loved to pick at Nina (and Nina gives back-it's one of those friendships) has decided she will help me with her. They are all worried about Nina-they did the ears back squinty faces when she kerploped down and couldn't get back up. But we are all trying to be positive and give her kisses and encourage her-and she certainly is not giving up either. 

Thank you all. 








OMG-am I going to have to edit myself for post length or what!


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

They told us Niko had days and we got 4 months.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

A B12 shot might help her appetite.


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Please don't edit your posts, Jean. We are all with you in our hearts. I hope you are taking of yourself during all this.

Miss Nina - what can I say. Do something for funny for mom to make her laugh and enjoy all the attention you are getting.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*

Jean how about some nice home cooked for her highness.. That way you can leave out the grains. I am sure she would love to see you working away in the kitchen for her.

Antioxidant stuff info for you. Antioxidants donate molecules to free radical cells because free radical cells are damaged and missing a molecule, then it is a balanced cell that isn't harmful. Free Radicals are the things that would feed cancer. I am not a cell specialists, but it is my understanding that cancer cells are damaged also, so with the free radicals floating around they bind and make more cancer cells. If you give the free radicals something good to bind with then they get moved out of the system. 

Val


----------



## ded37

*Re: Nina-update 9/20*


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina-Sunday 9/21*

That's a good idea-I am going to call her regular vet and maybe take her over tomorrow afternoon for that shot. They'll come to the car, I am sure. I asked about it at Cornell and they were okay with doing it. 

Thanks, Bonnie-she is sleeping right now so soundly. I really think she is just exhausted from Tuesday-Saturday, plus having the fever before that, PLUS, what she has. But I really think that she was awake a lot and moving or being moved around a lot and to be honest, Nina is not a mover! So I am really hoping her weakness is due in large part to that. 

Val-just saw that-thanks on that info. I am going tomorrow to get a nice selection of meats for her and baby food, canned meats, etc. She loves to watch me cook-they all do! 

Darcy-thank you-will send those on to Miss Nina. Tomorrow is supposed to be sunny!

I have decided it will be okay to schedule in depression for a couple of days,







but at the same time am going to schedule in a time to take one of the younger dogs out for a fun activity-for them and for me. Also she and Kramer will get outings as tolerated by her-she really seemed to want to go for a ride-she doesn't have to get out-we can just go places and open the door and sit!


----------



## fourdogsrule

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

Jean I am so sorry about Nina. I just saw the post.
We are all thinking of you and Nina. She is in the best home possible and she knows that.
Please keep us posted and give her a lot of love and attention.
Take care of Nina and yourself and really enjoy her the way you always have.

PS: Tell Mario his sister Felica aka Sarah says hello. I just watched her a short time ago.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*








to Nina.

About antioxidants, according National Cancer Institute (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/antioxidantsprevention) - 
*Key Points*
# Antioxidants protect cells from damage caused by unstable molecules known as free radicals.
# *Laboratory and animal research has shown antioxidants help prevent the free radical damage that is associated with cancer*. However, results from recent studies in people (clinical trials) are not consistent.
# Antioxidants are provided by a healthy diet that includes a variety of fruits and vegetables.


Seems to me that anti-oxidants are good to be included in the diet.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

I feel depressed about this too. It is so surreal when you're given this time thing.









Ok, so nix on the raw but I'm still voting for the mushrooms!









I am quite sure those characters mean, "Jean, get me some of those power mushrooms!"









As for the puffiness and the prednisone--my dad was on prednisone for the last few years of his life and his face was about 3 times normal size. It causes fluid retention.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

Antioxidants GOOD - Free Radicals - BAD


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

Last post for the night in this thread! Thanks again for the info! 

I am going to call Marina tomorrow about the mix she suggested-the problem will be getting it into Nina. 

Also not sure how these types of herbs compare with homeopathy and if one is better than the other. I am traditional with some woohoo stuff like Reiki and acupuncture thrown in-but when it comes to ingesting this stuff...not so much.









I actually considered taking her to this guy in Rochester I've heard about that does both-I may call him first to see if he's ever worked with dogs. 

A real problem-and I am hoping and praying it is the gabapentin-tonight she was really stumbling, falling (even with support) and could not walk straight-she fell into a wall-this is as I am holding her-it was like walking a drunk. I looked up the human side effects and they include dizziness, so I hope that this is what is happening and not something else. It would be easy to take away a pill (and I did not give her one tonight) rather than have it be something irreversible. 

Okay: http://www.canineepilepsy.co.uk/Research/Gabapentin_Trial.htm
Ataxia: is a neurological sign and symptom consisting of gross incoordination of muscle movements

I am going to post about that drug in health to see if anyone has had a dog on it (or been on it). I mean, I took .75 SOMA today and literally passed out. Kramer can't even tolerate Tramadol! SO who knows. 

Maybe-fingers crossed-calling Cornell tomorrow am! 

ETA-Sharon-what is his sister like? I know the one (Mary's) was very feisty and looked like a terrier-GSD mix. His sister that you had seems to look like a GSD and he resembles a lab-GSD mix! And he's gentle (but with some weird quirks) very unlike Mary's seemed to be (not sure if she's changed).


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

That sounds like a drug side effect. Poor Nina and poor Jean! 

Homeopathy and herbs are completely different. The purists will only do one or the other. With homeopathy and cancer I would definitely want to consult with a veterinary homeopath. I did a phone consult with this guy (http://homevet.com/) and he saved Cleo's life. However, I don't think I would go with homeopathy for Nina. I think I would go with herbs. I think working with this woman is a great idea but be sure to tell her there's a limit to how much you can get down Nina.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*


----------



## LisaT

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

This, by the way, is the best pill crusher around:
http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr.asp?...34FE08BE86D4B9D
I've tried several, and many of them don't crush so well!



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN......I have decided it will be okay to schedule in depression for a couple of days,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ......


I think that's a healthy thing to do.

I"m *not* liking coming to this forum to talk about Nina, it just doesn't seem right. 

Give all the pack an extra snuggle from this pack over here....


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

I believe Blueberries are very rich in antioxidents. Lakota loves her blueberries and this is a great time of year for them.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

Jean, when I had to give Chell, my last GSD herbs, this worked really well (cos they were bitter): (And this works REALLY well for regular pills too) Get the compounder to give you capsules in the size that will work for Nina's dosage.

1. Buy some of that Iams Sauce (gross, but it REALLY works). You may be able to find it at the supermarket in the pet foods section near the Iams.

Note: Shake the bottle before use.

2. Have the herb-filled capsule or pill in your fingers of one hand, use the other hand to pour the Iams Sauce down your fingers so it is drippy, messy. Standing by the sink or having a bowl on the countertop for the dripping sauce helps.

3. Standing behind Nina, open her mouth (that won't be hard.. this stuff smells kinda like roast beef) with your other hand, then using the wonderfully drippy-roastbeefy hand, slide pill into position with her head back-- and watch her slurp this drippy gravy stuff off your fingers. The wet, slippery capsule or pill now slides right down-- and the dog continues to suck your fingers dry, enjoying "treat time."

Shaking the bottle each time you are about to "treat" her gets her salivating, pills go down nearly automagickly.

Might not help, but just a thought for you and Nina, Jean. Chell was 15.5 and the pills were large. After trying the Iams Sauce thing twice, he'd drool at pill time, and basicly ended up sucking the pills down.


----------



## Kay13411

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

I can remember telling Nina that a wonderful woman by the name of Jean was going to take her home and make her feel secure with her life once again. I told Nina the story of Anna, and that she would get the same kind of care. I spent many hours sitting in a kennel with her telling her that life would be good again, and that she would get to feel the love I was talking to her about. Jean thank you so much for making sure she did.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-Sunday 9/21*

I hope Nina does as well as possible for as long as possible and defies the forecast. I did not expect this prognosis and even now find it hard to believe - most likely because I don't want to believe it. 

I'm very grateful that Jean was instrumental in Nina's rehabilitation as she has been for all her dogs - her pack almost seems like "our pack" even though it is Jean that does the hard yards.

For this reason only, I wish I lived closer to Jean so that I could be of more support (well, being closer to Kramer would be a bonus







- I must admit). Anyway, I know Jean will do everything she can to give all her pack what they need during this difficult time and I hope there are more than a few happy times for all our sakes including most of all Jean and Nina.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina-Monday 9/22*

Awww, Kay, I am so glad you got to know Nina. She's got such a good heart. Thanks for posting about her-I really appreciate that. 

I am also in shock, Alison. I wish you were all closer. 

I am going to be honest with you guys even though I don't want to scare you-she didn't eat yesterday enough to say so (on PRED) and last night she even left her biscuit. 

I am hoping it's the gabpentin: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=805597&page=0#Post805597 and that as it leaves her system (which I believe is just shutting down as the cancer spreads) she will improve. 

She did SLIGHTY better walking today. When I say walk, I don't mean she's able to do it on her own-I am supporting her. We didn't have a good start though-I thought she was peeing on my foot when I got her out of bed-but the poor thing was pooping on me. It was hard for both of us. I got her out though, and she layed in front of her favorite water bowl-the outdoor one-and drank and drank. Then she had the energy to let me help her up and was able to poop while squatting while I held her up. 

I am not going to be good at this-but am trying to balance that quality of life issue, checking that quality of life scale, trying to figure out what I am supposed to do. When she got so sick in January, I think the consensus of everyone seeing her was that was that. But I felt like she might bounce back and she did. I am convinced (and this could be denial) that right now some of this is the drug and that she will have a slight rebound after it clears. 

I just want her to want to eat. I am going to bring her back a burger after my meeting. 

She is able to walk about 4 steps with me helping and then she wants to rest. But she is walking a little better and a straighter than last night. I don't want her to suffer-I am really afraid of allowing that to happen out of my, well maybe tomorrow will be better. At the same time, I don't want to go the other way if this is a setback. 

Anyone have a crystal ball? 

Thanks again everyone. I'll let you know if she eats that burger!


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

<span style="color: #3333FF"> Hi Jean,

I am just checking in to let you know I am still here. I wish I was alittle bit closer to you to help out....although I am not so sure what help I would be.

Take care...

BIG HUGS



































</span>


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

I am wishing Nina







some true, burgerlicious enthusiasm for her meal tonight. Sending good thoughts to you, and positive energy to sweetheart Nina.

I sure am hoping that you are remembering to eat, to drink enough water yourself, Jean. Caring so much for Nina, she is so on your heart and mind now. I am wishing you to get the nutrition you need, the rest that you need.

Here's hoping that tonight's burgerfest is a successful one, and that Nina truly enjoys it. Hugs to you Jean from Patti, Ulrich and Grimmi.


----------



## Heidigsd

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

I am so sorry to hear about Nina's diagnosis, I haven't had much time on the computer lately but have been checking on Nina regular. 

Just wanted you to know we are thinking of you and Nina









Big hug,
Michaela & Heidi


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Jean, I think that maybe the Med has upset her system. I would guess by your description that she had diarrhea. Not one of my dogs want to eat when they have Diarrhea. 

Jean I used this Medication on a Cat once, with very good success. It does have some potential side effects and interactions with other drugs but it might be worth asking about. It is called Centrine http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&cat=1459&articleid=1375

Val


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

I remember in the years and final months of my mother's cancer that appetite would come and go. As the body weakens not as much nutrient is needed and while we (the well ones) want the ill ones to eat, really they don't want to, nor do they need to as much as they once did - in fact food can be nauseating. 

It didn't stop me from trying to encourage appetite (and it did work sometimes) but I reluctantly did learn not to force it. Of course, that information was from my mum and also nurses, dogs cannot communicate this as easily. Comfort, consideration, compassion and company are at least four "C"s that combat cancer. BUT there are always others. We can only do what we are able to do and any of those four "C"s go a long way.

Please take care of yourself, Jean. You have already done wonders with Nina and do not put any extra pressure on yourself. THIS is hard enough with one dog let alone a whole pack and your cats as well. You are a miracle worker but you are also human.


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

I didn't have Internet access all weekend, I thought about Nina a lot, and then when I logged on this morning tears filled my eyes when I saw where her thread had been moved to. 

Jean, I am not close but not too far if I you need anything at all.

Big hugs and kisses Nina from your friends across the border, you will be in our prayers.


----------



## hudak004

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Hi Jean







just reading this..hoping for the best for you and Nina and that things start looking better, dont give up! hugs to you both.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Jean,

Just please post. If writing helps you at all, please post. The news cannot always be good and when it's bad-it's the truth of lives filled with love. Thank goodness you have all those animal communicators (with tails) in your house to be sure you know what Nina needs.

You have always known and always will.

take care,
Mary Jane


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Just taking a second to check in on all our sick dogs. 

Jean, please try those ideas I gave you for getting food into Nina. Some pedialite might be a good purchase right now too. 

And I don't want to be a downer here but Petie completely lost his appetite as his lymphoma progressed. We did not have him on any drugs though and it does sound like the drugs could be the problem right now. 

I am always hoping for a bounce back, especially from these animals that have a history of bouncing back. I told Jean about my neighbor's sister's golden who has inoperable cancer. He was on death's door about 6 weeks ago and I saw him last night and he was following me everywhere, barking and trying to get a treat. So she could bounce back! I hope that she does! 

I won't be on line much today but will be thinking of Miss Nina and of course you too Jean!


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

No advice - just some hugs for Nina and Jean. 
Nina could not be in a better place.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

*HUGS* for both Nina and Jean. I hope the sweetie bounces back soon.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Just a quick post before I head off to another meeting (on emergency heating-yikes). I talked to her internist-what a great doctor. She said-
---it could be the gabapentin
---it could be caused by her liver failing
---it could be the lymphoma going into the nervous system
---she is concerned about the not eating
---Nina also has edema in her hind legs-just like she did before (last January), but it concerns her on top of everything else

So we are just going to keep trying to get her to eat. I am going to ask about that pill Val when I call and get her in for a B12 shot-they will come to the car, I am sure, to give her the shot. I figure, it's worth it to try those two things to stimulate the appetite, she's no longer taking the gabapentin. I will also be seeing if she enjoys the ride. 

So far the burger is smelling good to her-getting baby food after this meeting-but not interested in eating it. I tried feeding it to her. This is very unusual-Nina is a good eater. But we are taking it one minute at a time. I guess I should get to that meeting! I don't want to leave her-but she's sleeping soundly. That's a blessing.


----------



## Kay13411

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Jean, I have every bit of faith that you will make all the right decissions when it comes to Nina's quality of life, she is in the best hand possible. Please keep posting out here, we are all here for you and Nina.


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Ditto to what Kay just said, I just was reading everything and that is what I was thinking. 

















Kelly


----------



## Judykaye

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Dear Jean...I don't know how I missed your postings about Nina...I wanted to right immediately to let you know that you both are in my thoughts and prayers and I know that you will be the best caregiver Nina can have...you will do what is absolutely right for her, because you love her...I have to catch up on all the writings and I will check back in to keep track of what is happening...I am going to share this news with the IMOM gang...I don't know if you've had time to write or not, but I will let them all know. Hugs to you and Nina, Judy


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Jean, please check your PMs when you have a minute to spare. You may be interested in something I sent you, and I have seen it work............


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

_*Leaving today's







*_


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Aww! Judy-I didn't know if I should get in touch or not-I always feel so bad sending out bad news. Thank you. 

I will check my PMs if I can-I am outside and trying to watch the dogs! I will read but not respond probably! 

Thank you again very much. 

We have had a better afternoon. I went to my meeting, then to the store, got a selction of baby food, cottage cheese, liverwurst, cat food, crappy moist dog food, and DUH! SCOOBY SNACKS! Which was what she lived on when I first got her. 

I also called Nina's vet (who, along with "her" tech have been kind enough to check in on her) and he called in an appetite stimulant-which I am going to hold off on for right this second because she licked some of the cottage cheese and baby food. Now I wouldn't call it eating with gusto, but she sniffed the whole plate, and then was like hmmm...some of this looks good, and licked it up slowly. THEN-so excited-she ate her Scooby! It took a few bites but she ate the whole thing. 

Then we went out, she rested by her water bowl and just drank. And drank. And drank. Also did a little better walking-not so much drunken sailor, more weak little old lady. 

So even if this just gives us time to sit in the yard or maybe go for a car ride, this was a good afternoon and I hope the evening is as well. One minute at a time! She's resting now-I put three Scoobies in her bed with her. 

The new possible med for appetite is mirtazapine. It's a human med. And I used my caremark card and got it at over 50% off! 

When I go in, I'll make her up another bowl of food with a little more this time and try to get her Pepcid in her quick. The Cornell vet said if the only thing I can get in her is the Pred, that's the one to go with (but I figured the Pepcid should help). 

Thanks again-not promising anything of course, but this was a nice surprise.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

There is nothing more frustrating that trying to get food into a dog that WON'T EAT! You know she needs it to keep her strength up, she has to get her meds down, but you can't explain that to her. Hoping her appetite comes back....


----------



## Myamom

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Hi Jean, I second using Marina...she is AWESOME! I have worked with her as well!!

And...remember...to step back every once in a while...take a deep breath...and put it in God's hands and ask him to work in this. We sometimes forget that it's not all on our shoulders...and become frantic to fix things (at least I do)........but we have to remember...it's not. 

Big hugs my friend!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Jean, I am glad that Nina is having a better afternoon. I am suprises that you didn't stop and pick her up a burger. 

Sending our hugs and kiss to Nina and a shoulder for you to lean on when you need one.

Val


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*








to Nina.

I really hope she eats some more tonight. I have been continuing with reiki for her specifically and in general for you and your pack, hope that is okay with you.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

I'm glad she's showing a little more interest in food and is not so wobbly. Will she eat the food if you spoon it into her mouth? I have had to force feed Cleo in the past and I used a syringe, cut off the pointy end, pureed the food to a mushy consistency and then squirted it into her mouth. With a dog I think you could drop spoonfuls in. It's great that she's eating that treat (I don't even know what it is







) but she needs nutrition right now in a big way. 

Did she get a B12 shot today? 

I was thinking about her while driving home from teaching. She's got a lot of energy coming her way...


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

A Scooby Snack, Ruth is a disgusting, dry, colorful, don't look at the ingredients dog treat purchased at a grocery store.







It has Scooby Doo on the box. And to Nina they are about the best things on earth. 








She ate a WHOLE JAR of baby food tonight! Plus some cottage cheese, plus a little cat food. Now that we have that going, and tomorrow I don't have anything until an evening open house, we can work on more baby food and stuff. I am hoping. 

She had done really well outside earlier, but just now-and I am thinking of kicking myself-she gave me the sign that she didn't want to go out-which she has done many nights! It's cold, it's dark, she's tired-leave me alone-and she just ignores me. (I love her) But I took her out anyway and she was ticked and just kind of sat. She also was weaker than earlier-but I need to relax as I have been told (since I was...born?







) and just try to not focus on each little piece of progress or not proress. 

She's eating her ice cubes so that's good. 

You guys are right. 

And the energy is appreciated-I think it's taking tons to get things better for her. So I really am thankful. 

I did get her a burger, but she wouldn't eat it-Kramer got it instead. He also got her liverwurst. 

So I have a few more jars of baby food for tomorrow. Turkey, beef, chicken and am hoping it's just as delicious to her in the morning!

Oh-no B12 shot-just that med-which I haven't tried with her yet (I guess she just wanted to see if I would get it for her







).


----------



## Kay13411

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Jean, I know how hard it can be to get a dog to eat that really doesn't want to. I have one at work right now that just won't do it. So I have now been cooking him fatty hamburg, he needs the weight, a boiled egg, Yogurt, cottage cheese, and boiled chicken. So far we are making small progress but progress none the less. Just some idea to try.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Thinking of all of you.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Monday 9/22*

Prayers and good thoughts of support your way Jean. You are on my mind alot-- as is Miss Nina SuperStar, Princess of ScoobySnacks. Sending you good thoughts today, wishing today to be a super day with Nina enjoying her haute cuisine of totally yummy Scooby Snacks. Keeping you and Nina in my prayers today. Off to do some shopping for bakery rolls and cake. (Not that I'm stressing alot with ya or anyfing..







) Wish I could bring some by for you and Nina







-- and be mobbed by the whole pack. I will check back in later, in case there is a Nina







Scooby Snack report.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Thanks-yeah, I will give her anything that she wants to eat. She seems to like the licking type food better than the chewing type food. 

Last night she wasn't quite as comfortable and I was very concerned this morning, but she did pretty well getting up and going out with help. She drank her water up like she likes to. 

I FINALLY got all the drugs in her that I wanted to. Yesterday I was just trying to get the Pred in her-that was the goal per her internist. Today I got her abx, Pred, pepcid, AND tramadol in. I think the tramadol is key. 

Now she's sleeping SOUNDLY making up for last night. Not eating, but I still haven't tried the appetite stimulant yet-because I wanted to get those pills in, observe how she was doing, get a baseline before I added something else that could have some kind of effect on her like the gabapentin did. 

I am going to see if she's awake enough later to go for a little ride-maybe to go see her tech or something like that. If not, maybe tomorrow. 

She has her baby food, but is sleeping and not interested in eating it right now. 

Send pastries...


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean I am not sure that she has even had time to catch up on the sleep that she lost while in the great hands at Cornell. That might be taking it's toll right now also. So maybe a nice long nap and she will feel like eating something. Just a though but since she really seems to like her water how about some nice homemade broth.

Sending hugs.

Val


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Hmmm, what kind of pastries does Jean...I mean NINA like?









Have you tried throwing stuff in the processor so that's a slurry consistency and then heating it up just a bit? 

I was hoping she would want more baby food this morning. Darn. 

Ok, found this for the donut fans


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I'm hoping Nina has a good day today. (& you too, Jean!)


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I have some food cubes in the freezer. I did give her the appetite stimulant around noon so we will see if it works. I am giving her the opportunity to eat little tastes of a bunch of things but nothing has clicked yet. 

Will try the broth cubes as well-she used to like them sometimes and then other times would look at me like I had handed her crack or something! This could be a good time though, so we are trying it!

We are heading out now to visit her tech, who is going to a conference from Thursday to Sunday. Since we can't say what is happening-and like Val said, she's still tired from Cornell, her tech wants to see her. I hope Nina enjoys her ride and that it doesn't tire her out more-she does normally love to ride. 

Thanks everyone-and thanks for the energy moei!


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I think she will enjoy the ride, she will like the return trip home more. Me think that she might have gotten a little more spoiled by her Tech.... I bet there was a lot of coaxing to get her to eat...


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I'd be on my way over if I could Jean, with streussel quark cake, kummel rolls, and an apfel strudel. Maybe I'd even bring something for YOU to nosh, too.







Sending good vibes that all goes super with Nina's tech and that she has encouraging things to say about how Nina is feeling right now. Hoping for Nina to enjoy her food cubes, Scooby Snacks, etc. Thinking good thoughts for sweet Miss Nina as she enjoys her ride in Jean's Cheauffeur Limo.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*



> Originally Posted By: Brightelf I'd be on my way over if I could Jean, ... kummel rolls, and an apfel strudel.












Could you swing on over my way with those????










Hoping Nina has a better evening.


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Hope Nina enjoys the car ride....bet ya stop at Arby's on the way back!









I second the recommendation about spoon feeding...when Riggs wasn't feeling good he wouldn't eat, which is critical with renal failure, but he would eat if I spoon fed him....I think he was just enjoying the pampering and having me wrapped around his finger and since we KNOW that Princess Nina loves her mommy's spoiling, maybe she would like to be spoon fed??








Nina








Jean


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I don't know what that stuff is but it sure sounds good! 

Nina had a very nice car ride. It was difficult getting her in the car-her hind legs did not work. But she got to see her tech and perked up. She even tried to eat a biscuit for her, and tried to eat some A/D for her. It was very sweet-Nina put the biscuit in her mouth, then set it down. Her tech broke it up into tiny pieces, she'd take a piece and set it down. She licked the A/D for her once-again, so sweet. 

The bad part then was that she did what she did this morning when she licked her baby food once-she threw up-there was nothing in there, but that is her reaction to licking food. Ice is still good. Her belly is very distended. Her tech noticed that right away. I know that this is a GI cancer. 

We were doing hand feeding-no go-I have tried at home, too. I stopped to get her a burger-this time from Wendy's (who knows-is there a preference-and Arby's has been a fail) but again, nothing. I also got her nuggets-which she also has had and enjoyed, but nothing. I thought she was licking a little piece I gave her, but when I looked, I realized her front leg was bleeding.







Just kind of started all on its own.























I got her home and out of the car and realized she is also losing her front leg strength and essentially can't walk---right now at this time----and at night she gets worse-or has-so I am worried. So she stayed in the front yard while we got our strength back and we got to see a squirrel-that was neat-her vision and hearing are still amazing. I almost couldn't get her into the house, she had to lay by the door for a while, then halfway to her bed, then in her bed. Because she can't walk and because she gets winded. 

When she potties, she potties laying down now. I just have to guess and hope that she has. 

What I am wanting to see is some appetite-she hasn't really eaten since Sunday-and the ability to help me help her walk. When she was so sick in January, I felt like she could do it and refused to put her to sleep. I mean, I am ready to stick it out for however long-I'm the idiot who approved bloat/torsion surgery on a 15 yo dog! 

But right at this very moment, I am feeling cruel. Not purposefully, but in hoping that a change will happen right around the corner. She just covered her A/D with her ice bowl. She's something else! So cute and funny. 

I don't know if it's because I know the prognosis, or because I am accurately looking at her situation. 

I don't mean to lay all this out here and realize I am going to have to make this decision on my own but I did want everyone to know what is happening. I realize it can be up and down, but I am just trying to keep her quality of life front and center and seeing if I can afford to wait in hopes of better days ahead. 

I am getting ready to go to an Open House (hey-let's go see the crying lady-that's coooool!) so if I don't respond, that's why! 

Until then, she's on the tramadol and comfy as she can be in her bed. Ya know, if she didn't have to move ever, we'd be set.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I am the queen of the quick reply button. But I needed the emoticons.....








































































I am so sorry and I hope, hope that she will rally for you again. 

I know you will make the right decision at the right time for your sweet girl.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean, Nina know there is something wrong with her digestive system, you may not tell her but she knows. I also believe that she doesn't want to eat solids right now because Monday morning she had an accident and made a mess on your shoe. I am absolutely sure that you didn't even say anything or acknowledge the incident but she knows what happened. SO in Nina's mind no solid food no soft poop messes, that embarrassed her. That is why I suggested trying the broth, to see if you could get some nutrients into her. As sweet as she is I think she might just be being a little pig headed, well not pig headed but she really doesn't want to cause you any unnecessary work.

The Meds aren't helping her tummy. I can't remember all this stuff, but in all the things you are giving her are you giving any Probioitics? It might just help with the broth to get a little balance in that GI system.

Hugs to you, Nina and the WHOLE gang.

Val


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Oh baby girl ... please eat.









Sending you lots of love







and


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*










Lay it all out here for us Jean, though I haven't said much the last few days I read every line and smile and laugh and cry and then do it all again as I read more of what you have to write about Nina, and wish I lived next door so I could help.

I have now made up my mind, there is no doubt, I am coming back in my next life as one of your dogs.


----------



## sunnygirl272

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean,
Sending you support from Halle, Re-Re, BubbaLumpkin, Jay and me....
Love ya,
Melinda


----------



## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean, I am so sorry to hear about Nina. My prayers are with you guys!!!!!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Manners! Thank you all again. Barb, you can come back as one of my dogs, but a warning, you will be spayed.









Still refusing all different things-probiotics, scooby snacks, cheeses, meat cubes-only eating ice. I am wondering-I e-mailed her internist-that the difference in her belly swelling (I just looked at pictures-it is a noticeable difference from Sunday to today-as are a couple of other things-she could stand now she can't, she's got some swelling in her groin now too) is from her liver backing up. I also am not seeing output from her.









I did tell her internist all of this and asked her to suggest if there was ANYTHING I could do. She had said that (on Sunday) to give her 24-36 hours of not eating...

I did call and make an appt. for 5:45 tomorrow and will continue, up until then, to see if she can rally. I can also cancel, of course. I just wanted to make sure if we needed to, we'd have it set. 

I tried to crop these so she'd look her best! 

The other day at her favorite water bowl:









Today after her ride-


















With Kramer-what's the matter, Nina? 









Archie and Edith-


























PS-that's her piggy that I got for the ride home on Saturday-and she de-eyed it while I was driving...


----------



## Smithie86

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

I am sorry: my thoughts are with you and hoping. Went through this with Baer in the spring.


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean she still looks happy!!! 

This is a hard subject for me and even for you to hear I am sure, but my dad died of colon cancer about 5 years ago. When the cancer invaded his stomach, eating made him ill and not hungry. He said it did not bother him to not eat as he did not feel hungry. He got IV fluids to keep his electrolytes in balance and it took him about a month to die. He slipped into a coma about 4 days before that. 

I am just wondering if Nina just does not feel hungry so has no appetite? Can she get her meds IV or SubQ? 

She really does still look bright and engaged to me.


----------



## Daisy1986

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Still being new to this site. I just cannot believe how emotional for me this is. My first forum. You are the first one to help me here. 
I was so impressed with your wisdom, still am. 

I come here every day and think about you and Nina all the time. 

I have never met you but I feel like I know you.







not a stalker. 
I just care so much. I understand what you are going through. 

Nina will tell you, I am sure you know that. You will see it in her eyes.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

What Kathy said, she sure does look bright and engaged.








the "Archie and Edith" picture!


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

The hard part is she that she can't walk now. I am not sure what you do with that-really-I have never had an old dog, never had such a sick dog, so I am not sure. I am also not sure how she's not going to the bathroom. But more not sure what you do with the walking thing. 

Awww, Kathy. So sorry-cancer really, pardon me, sucks. 

We're watching you Daisy!









Isn't it sweet-the younger dogs are totally freaked out by Nina, even her "baby" Mario. But Kramer is like...well...I hear ya! It's rough. 

I did pick her happy face pictures-Nina deserves to be seen as the sweet girl she is. And she does still have these moments of happiness and alertness. It is wonderful. Then we have the rest of the time where she is trying to get settled. I need to get her tramadol in her soon. 

Her internist said it sounds like the things I am seeing are the cancer and not other stuff like we'd like it to be. 

I don't want to do anything too quickly, don't want to wait too long.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Oh, that last pic just breaks my heart!


----------



## fourdogsrule

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean, Nina looks so happy in the pics. She knows that she has the BEST mom in the world and enjoying every moment of it.
Keep up the great work and hang in there. 
You and Nina are in out thoughts.


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

This is very, very, very hard. I have done it three times now. We have someone else's life in our hands! 

I think it is really important to try to think clearly and separate us from them. We want them to live, they may be ready to let go. We see all the little tiny things as hope, they give into their bodies shutting down. We see them alert and looking at us but they may be asking for our help. They are our dear, dear companions and we are their advocates. We have to remember that, as hard as it is when we suffer so much to see them so sick. 

We all want Nina to rally but if this is her time then better she go before the suffering becomes too much. 

My strongest and warmest thoughts are with you and your entire pack, Jean.


----------



## Cassidy's Mom

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Great post Ruth, I totally agree. I've had to make that decision with 2 dogs and 3 cats. Each time I fervently wished that they would die painlessly and peacefully in their sleep so I DIDN'T have to make that decision. But it never works out that way, does it?









It really comes down to the simplest, and the absolute most difficult question you'll ever have to ask yourself: Am I doing this because it's best for the animal, or because I can't bear to let him/her go? Am I giving him/her every possible chance, or am I holding on too long for my own selfish interests? 

I know with Cassidy I didn't want to give up on her if there was any chance of improvement, but I also didn't want her to suffer needlessly. So, so, SO hard to know what the right thing to do is.....


----------



## valb

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

My apologies for not having gotten here sooner to provide support.

I read through the entire thread, and while it has highs and lows
the overwhelming feeling that comes through all of it is an
incredible amount of LOVE shared, by humans and fur kids alike.

Beautiful girl Nina. Absolutely beautiful girl. I'm so glad to hear
you de-eyed your pig, that is really a good, spunky girl!

<<HUGS>> to all of you. 
I will be thinking of you.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean, about 2 weeks before I lost Nyx I noticed the same swelling that you are describing in his loin area. He had thrown up his food that day. I called the vet in the evening and they didnt think it was bloat so we played "wait and see". The swelling turned out to be his bladder filling. He was cathetarized and pumped over a gallon of pee out of the poor boy. The ultrasound done to see what the "swelling" was is the first time we saw the tumor. The vet was not sure which "mass" was the bladder. She guessed right. The look in Nina's eyes reminds me a lot of Nyx's eyes. Sunday is his one year anniversary. It is never an easy decision to make. Phoenix clearly let me know when he was ready.


----------



## ninhar

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean, I'm just catching up with this now. Hugs and strength to you and Nina.


----------



## kelso

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Hi Jean,

Thinking of you and Nina and the pack. Funny people were talking about pastries today as the other day while reading through this thread I had to stuff my face with a piece of cheesecake. Boo for emotional eating








Love the pictures she looks so sweet







We have that same water bowl..I am sure thousands of other people do as well, but just sayin

The not being able to walk at all is so difficult, just considering the quality of life issues and things, and it was a major part of our decision to let Meeka, who was unable to move at all, go on to what I like to believe were bigger and better things. Some people say you can tell others say you can't tell when they are ready or not ready. I think we could, and if anyone can I am sure it is you. Still hoping Ms. Nina can rally as well.

I feel like I am thinking alot but still not sure what to say except for that you and Nina are in our thoughts here, and most of all thanks for sharing Nina with this board.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Sending (((((HUGS)))) your way, and would send pastries if possible. Wishing only comfort for you, only comfort for Nina, and only good for you both. Prayers are on the way.

I also agree with Ruth. This is so very, very difficult. I wanted Chell to rally-- and I tried different things until his eyes told me it was time to let him go in peace, instead of in pain. Nina is enjoying the spoiling as much as she can. You are THE best dog Mom. The kindness, the humor, the research-- your dogs are in heaven their entire lives with you. Each dog gets ALL from you Jean, and each knows how loved and special they are. What a lucky bunch of woofers to belong to YOU, Jean!

I also wonder about her bladder filling. The same happened with my neighbor's Beagle who was too weak to walk. Of course with Nina, it could be other than her bladder-- but it did occur to me also.

Sending prayers, well-wishes, and big hugs your way, Jean. I truly have you and Nina on my heart all day now. Sending positive energy to you both during this difficult time. Nina feels all your TLC and knows that she is your star. Such a lucky dog to have Jean caring for her. I am so sorry you are going through this. Wish that I could do something to help, to support you during this time. ((((Hugs)))) 

I need to sign off shortly to walk Grimm and pack a few moving boxes, but will return to see if you've posted again. You will be held warmly in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Thank you for the photos. However, to me, Nina while as beautiful as ever, does not look completely comfortable but maybe I'm projecting how I would feel ...... so ignore this observation. I was also thinking that any fluid build up may be due to Nina's kidneys or bladder not processing fluid properly, maybe due to the cancer or maybe just pressure simply because she is not able to walk. I hesitate suggesting another procedure but maybe a urethral catheter may relieve some of that fluid and pressure. 

No matter what, I am so very glad she came home even though this is hard and heartbreaking. She is where she needs to be and that means more than anything.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Thinking of you and Nina and praying for a miracle.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

<span style="color: #3333FF">A Prayer for Health and Healing for Nina














...

Father, in the name of Jesus, I confess your Word concerning healing. As I do this, I believe and say that Your Word will not return to you void, but will accomplish what it says it will. Therefore, I believe in the name of Jesus that I am healed, according to 1 Peter 2:24. It is written in Your Word that Jesus Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses. Therefore, with great boldness and confidence I say on the authority of that written Word that I am redeemed from the curse of sickness, and I refuse to tolerate its symptoms. 
Satan, I speak to you in the name of Jesus and say that your principalities, powers, your spirits who rule in the present darkness, and your spiritual wickedness in heavenly places are bound from operating against me in any way. I am the property of Almighty God, and I give you no place in me. I dwell in the secret place of the Most High God. I abide, remain stable and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty, whose power no foe can withstand.
Now, Father, because I reverence and worship You, I have the assurance of Your Word that the angel of the Lord encamps around about me and delivers me from every evil work. No evil shall befall me, no plague or calamity shall come near my dwelling. I confess the Word of God abides in me and delivers to me perfect soundness of mind and wholeness in body and spirit from the deepest parts of my nature in my immortal spirit even to the joints and marrow of my bones. That Word is medication and life to my flesh for the law of the Spirit of life operates in me and makes me free from the law of sin and death.
I have on the whole armor of God, and the shield of faith protects me from all the fiery darts of the wicked. Jesus is the high Priest of my confession, and I hold fast to my confession of faith in Your Word. I stand immovable and fixed in full assurance that I have health and healing now in the name of Jesus.

Once this has been prayed, thank the Father that Satan is bound and continue to confess your healing and thank God for it. 
</span>


----------



## dd

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean - so very sorry to see this. I have not read the entire thread, I am wondering if you have tried supporting Nina with a towel threaded under her tummy and both ends held up by you to help her get in and out of the house? Or is her tummy too tender to support that?

She still looks happy and alert. I know you will make the right decision when the time comes. It is always heartbreaking, it can't be helped.

Very best to you, Nina and the rest of the pack too.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Thank you all again for the support and ideas. I could not get through this without all this help. 

She's not doing well. I believe in the hospice concept (dad, sister, co-worker, aunt all went through it and I volunteered with them for a while-but couldn't do it) and I see her body is shutting down. I don't feel that what is done can be undone and that anything other than comfort care is what we are looking at-but with the option of ending misery, unlike with humans. That said, I HATE the hospice concept. 

She's having trouble lifting her head now-and isn't interested in her ice. She can't walk. We are having some nice chats about how I wouldn't want to leave her either, but understand that she has to do some things and I am okay with that and that she will always be with me. 

I just need to help her make it through the day. I have been using sling and harness to get her places-I am thinking she is at the point of having to be carried. 

I realized I posted pictures showing Nina in a good moment. Prior to that moment she had to be pulled out of the car by mother and myself, she could not support herself, and was bleeding from an old IV stick-just random bleeding. After that moment she was transported by sling and harness into the house without use of her legs, and she could only get in the door before collapsing completely. 

That moment is one though that we are going to try for again today between my meetings and after-just so that we can enjoy ourselves-but the rest of the time is really difficult for her. Kramer helped there-his energy gave her some strength. We'll sit in the front yard and hope for more squirrels. 

I don't think I'll post the pictures I have of her that show more of the reality. I want people to think of Nina like this and not like I am seeing. I can pm them to people though. I am not even going to take pictures of her today-I don't feel it would be right to her. 

Thank you all again for your help. I really appreciate it and it goes right to her-all the support, and love-so thank you more than I can say.


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*








x a dozen


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Oh Jean, I got your PM.....Nina does look bright and happy and that is a wonderful thing, its harder on us as owners but its better for them that they are happy and alert even when their body is failing them...

I'm no expert but I've had my unfair share of dogs get to this point where you have to make that heartwrenching decision and I oddly feel some comfort in an otherwise unbearable situation in being able to be the one who eases their pain and takes care of them as that is our job as doggie parents. You've done such an amazing job with Nina from the moment you got her, she surely wouldn't have come this far without your unconditional love, patience, support and care.

I can only tell you what I've experienced, as with my latest chronic renal failure foster he didn't have any bad days until his last when his body was done even though his mind and personality was willing, I couldn't leave him trapped in that **** body that was failing....it was easier b/c he gave me that look of "I'm done, mom" when he didn't stand up in time to pee and he peed on himself, that was it...such a proud boy but in such a short time (about 24hrs) he lost all his strength...mostly from his anemia. I worry about Nina's earlier symptom of the blood in the belly and that her bloated belly right now may be more bleeding....that would explain the not being able to walk b/c she may be anemic and just too weak....but as other posted, if you haven't seen her pee it may be her bladder too...

Please know that we are all here for you...you have my number....we support you in this awful time. We love you and Nina and your whole pack.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Oh Jean, I am so sorry. I sent you a PM

God only gives us these magnificent creatures to take care of and love for such a short time, I think he only loans them to us. He figured out that if he made the lifetime of a dog the same length as man that there would be so many dogs that didn't get the care and love that they deserved. So he had to make it this way so as many of his great creatures got the love and care that they deserved. We can hope that he gave us the wisdom to know when that time is and the strength to get us through it.

I am with Sinclair, there is some thing comforting in the fact that we love them so much we aren't going to let them suffer physically or have their dignity smashed. 

Val


----------



## kshort

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

No dog has been more loved than your Nina. She knows that and looks to you to take her pain away. It's an excruciating decision but one made with the greatest love there is. My thoughts and prayers are with you both...


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*








X 100 for both of you. 







for the sense of loss you will feel when you make the decision but you know that it will be the right one for her. 

I have only done this twice with my dogs. I was later with Wolf than I should have been and felt horrible as I had not seen the signs of cancer sooner thus causing him more suffering. I was worrying about my dad and his cancer and driving back and forth to Chicago from Kentucky and not paying attention to the dog.

I think I sent Lucky too soon, she was not walking and was very confused but still bright eyed and eating and eliminating. I never did try a using a sling with her. I did not want her to wait too long as Wolf did. I still feel guilty about possibly denying her another good month. 

Why do we do this? Becasue no one wants to play God with a beloved life that has been entrusted to us by the Divine Master and by the trust of our dogs themselves. 

I pray that all of mine will go in their sleep but I know that is unlikely. There is never the perfect time as it is not a perfect thing - it is perfectly heartwrenching. I just hope that I can be as committed you are with your Nina. 

Nina is probably as ready as she is going to be and I just hope she makes this day for you so you can ready yourself for what is to come.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

My thoughts and prayers are with you both Jean.

{{Hugs}} to you and Nina


----------



## mspiker03

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

More








Our thoughts are with you.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

It's never an easy decision but I know you will do what is best for Nina. She's been a very fortunate dog and you've taken wonderful care of her. *HUGS* to you Jean and loving pets to Nina.

Take care.


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Dear Jean,

I was off-line for a day so I read several posts and admired Nina's smiles all at once. Dear strong ladies, she is passing away before your eyes.

It's clear that you will use all of the strength and love and wisdom you have shown for the entire Packistan nation to help Nina home.

Mary Jane


----------



## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean,

Your last post especially made me cry. I am so sorry that you and Nina are going through this right now. I have a dog who has cancer and is terminal. She is on limited time and it is very hard to know that time does not stand still. 

You guys are in my prayers.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Jean and Nina


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

Many good thoughts going out to you and your pack today. Please give Nina a kiss for me.


----------



## elviraglass

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*










Jean and Nina, I am so very sorry to hear about this sad event (gosh, I don't even know what to say). My heart and prayers go out to you both. Your life story has had a great impact on me in so many ways and to hear about Nina having to go through something like this just breaks my heart. 

((((((((((((((((Jean and Nina)))))))))))))))

With love, 
Elvi


----------



## littledmc17

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

My heart goes out to you and your Family.
My eyes are welling up Nina is gorgeous and looks so happy in those pics!!
if you need anything let us know.
prayers are coming your way Nina!!


----------



## RebelGSD

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I am so sorry that things are not improving.

I went through similar situations several times with my own dogs and fosters.

I did hospice care for a foster for three months, he had skin problems like Nina, EPI, pannus etc, but was the happiest dog through all the health problems. At some point I discovered that he had bone cancer (the type would have been managable if he did not have all the health problems). One day he could not stand on either of his front legs and I had to make the decision. He was throwing his ball to the techs as they were wheeling him into the hospital on a guerney. He was reaching for his ball the moment the injection kicked in, he was there menatally until the very last moment. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do.

I lost my old guy within three days a couple of months ago. On the fisrt day he did not eat. I took him to the vet the next day and his liver values were off the charts (they were perfect 6 months earlier). On the third day he would not even lift his head when I got home from work (he was not eating for three days). I decided not to put him through the biopsies and tests (he was terrified of hospitals), I think he did not want it.

I know what you feel and it is very hard.

Sending positive toughts to you and Nina.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Thank you all so very much. You are all so kind-and so appreciated. 

There is such a big difference between yesterday and today. I called and had to move up her appointment to 2 instead of 5:45. She is cooling down and I called her tech-she said if we continued to wait, it would be harder to find the vein. 

Last night I prayed for a miracle. Then went with the stinky backup prayer of letting me know-and she gave me the gift of clarity today. 

Of course, like KathyW says, that doesn't mean that tomorrow or later, I won't be thinking back-but I think at the time you do what you have to do. I know these guys don't criticize. Bless them for their kind souls. 

This morning I had to run out to meet someone to get my gift bag (just like the Emmy's) for taking pictures at a golf tournament. I almost cancelled-but it's taken us so long to get together I didn't want to frustrate by rescheduling. Anyway, I looked through all the stuff and there was a magnet in there. One of those weird things-when you are looking for a sign-

There is a Strength in Friendship That Helps Us Overcome Life's Most Difficult Times

I know firsthand of your strength,
You have shared it so often with me...
I know firsthand of your courage,
You have shared it so gallantly with me...
I know firsthand of your light,
You have shed it so freely in the darkness...
I know firsthand of your wisdom, 
You have shared it so easily with me...
I know firsthand of your pain, 
And I share it so deeply with you...
Your strength, your courage, 
your light, and your wisdom
will see you through...
and so shall I.

-Anonymous

So, I am going to head into Nina's bed/kennel with her for a while, and then we are going to go. Thank you all so much again. I probably won't be on until tonight. Know that all your thoughts, prayers and wishes will make the road a lot easier to travel today.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean and sweet Nina















































































































































--- Patti, Ulrich and Grimm


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-Tuesday 9/23*

You and Nina will be in our thoughts and prayers today, Jean.


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Oh Jean you know this just breaks my heart. 

Nina let the wings of the angles sweep you up and take you to the Bridge. You will be Momma Jeans Guardian Angel now and watch over her and the Janpackistan. Gods Speed Sweetie.

Love Val


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*



> Originally Posted By: Wisc.TigerOh Jean you know this just breaks my heart.
> 
> Nina let the wings of the angles sweep you up and take you to the Bridge. You will be Momma Jeans Guardian Angel now and watch over her and the Janpackistan. Gods Speed Sweetie.
> 
> Love Val


Ditto...









Add love Kathy too. I am crying too hard to type.


----------



## agilegsds

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Dear Jean, you and Nina are in my thoughts and prayers today. You were there for me when I made this decision for Shelby and you helped me more than will ever know. I want you to know that I am there for you today and beyond.


----------



## Tina & Dave

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I like so many others have read and re-read this thread...feeling every once of misery and pain with you and Nina, Jean. I have enjoyed reading every post on your pups...they have been so very inspirational. Sadly sometimes things are out of our control...you give every one of your pups your love and life, and they know it.

You both are in my heart this afternoon. 

Tina


----------



## Mary Jane

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Dear Jean,

Today your love will save Nina from suffering.

In the hours and days to come, her love will give you peace.

Mary Jane


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Bless you Jean for the unconditional love that you have given and continue to give to Nina!

Heaven is getting one more angel today!


----------



## Fluffypants

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, 

I too like many have followed Nina's thread... it reminds me so much of my beloved Stormy who passed almost 2 years ago. I was told he had severe arthritis/calcification of the spine... it all happened so quickly and after reading your posts, I wonder if something else was going on with him like with Nina. It's so similar.

He walked with me almost daily, played with my other dog and all of sudden was having a really difficult time getting up... he was only 10.5, but an oversized boy - 110 lb. The only med that helped him was pred, but he couldn't stay on that for long. The last day we had together... I knew I had to say goodbye to my beloved friend... he couldn't get up at all and looked at me with those eyes... he was my best friend and I had to let him go with dignity. He was such a noble boy! 

I keep coming back to your thread multiple times during the day (at work) and tearing up... Please know that I'm thinking of you guys and know that there are many here who are too! 

Tanja


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean and Nina


----------



## BowWowMeow

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Nina's body may no longer be alive but we can all take strength from the fact that her wonderful spirit will never die. Her strength, courage and good humor serve as an inspiration and as a testimony to the wonderful gift rescued dogs are to this world. 

Look closely at the butterflies you see today. One of them might be Nina.


----------



## djpohn

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean,

I am sorry to hears Nina didn't turn around liked you had hoped. I wish you could have had more time with her. My thoughts are with you at this difficult part of your journey. Though your paths will now split, know that Nina is walking a head and will be waiting for you without pain and without suffering. While her body may be tired, her spirit will forever fly free and watch over you.

Take care of yourself. Cyber hugs to you.


----------



## angelaw

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, having lost Vishnu a month ago, I truly feel for you and Nina. There is no doubt you are making the right decision. PM if you need to.


----------



## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I was thinking of you and Nina while Risa and I were walking at the canal today. . .turns out it was around 2:00. She was so fortunate to have found such a loving, devoted owner in you, Jean. Jeanpackistan may be a bit smaller after today, but the love is omnipresent. You take such wonderful care of your pack, Jean, and they know it. If only all dogs were so lucky.

Thinking of you both. Take care.


----------



## JenM66

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I logged on looking for an update, anxiously awaiting 5:45 only to see the appointment was moved to 2:00. My prayers, heart and tears go out to you Jean and sweet Nina.


----------



## Skye'sMom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, my heart is heavy for you and Nina, but the two of you have had so much love for each other. Nina has given you her best and you have always done the same for her.

Sweet Nina with so many friends.


----------



## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

<span style="color: #3333FF">Jean, I am very much a believer in "signs" 

I am so sorry you and Nina had to go through this. Just know in your heart that you have done the very best for Nina and the rest of your pack...always.

Here's a friendship quote I found:
"Don't be dismayed at good-byes. A farewell is necessary before you can meet again. And meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends."
~ Richard Bach

Quotes like this help me and I hope you can find some comfort in it.... and knowing all the friends here, have you in their thoughts.</span>


----------



## Strana1

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I just found this thread and although I haven't read all of it my heart breaks with yours. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## LandosMom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean-

You and Nina are lucky to have found one another. Know that her spirit will always be with you and she will have much wonderful company at the bridge. Our family will keep her in our thoughts and hope that leads her to our Lando. You have always been so very kind to others in pain on this board. I hope that you will get some strength from us here who care so much for you and your pack. 

LandosMom


----------



## Qyn

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Dearest Jean, Sweet Nina and you have not been out of my thoughts for the past week. I am so sorry. It's 9am here as I write this with tears and a swollen throat. Even though we knew this was coming it does not make this any easier. Qyunne just nudged me as we have to leave for work. 

Take care my friend. Love and hugs ..... Alison


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I cannot believe how wonderful these messages are. I have read them and am so appreciative. I hope you know how much. 

Angela-I am so sorry about Vishnu. FlPants-I am also sorry about your boy Stormy as well. Vickie-is Bach the Jonathon Livingston Seagull author? I love his quotes. 

A lot of this is about Kramer-and how he really helped me today-and helped Nina as well. When I first got her as a foster, he was like who's this old broad? (Kramer is not PC) Because even though she was 4 years younger, she looked and acted older than him (8 and 12). As she "got younger" and he got older and they evened out a little, he began to appreciate a more mature female.







They would putter around the yard together and spent a lot of time at the vet office hanging out. The best part was, he is a true alpha (in my mind-and his) and she is more of an Omega. So this gave her a little status with the other girls-and it made me feel good to see her puff up a bit. 

About 15 minutes before it was time to get going, Kramer went over and lay down next to Nina's bed. While my mom and I were trying to get things set to leave (poor Nina could only really move her head-and was rapidly shutting down), Kramer was behind a baby gate-and he had a fit. So I took him out to potty-and he went right to the car. I told him no, he couldn't ride to the vet in the front seat without hurting himself, and dragged him to the house. In the house, he went back to the door and pushed it, until finally I got his leash and put him in the front seat. I told him he had to behave because I didn't want him to freak her out. He was totally bullheaded about it, and I am glad. 

We got her out and in the car, and got to the vet. Kramer was unusually calm-he normally chatters, froths, shakes and cries-instead, he got out like he had a job to do-shoulders rolled and ready to go-and Nina saw him-and knew he was there. We got Nina in and she was just so tired-BUT-again, a little perk up for her tech-who came in on her day off. They took her back to get a catheter in her front leg (back were too swollen) and Kramer stood in the doorway waiting for them to bring her back. Once they got back with her, and she was sedated, he relaxed and actually ate all the treats they had brought him-totally and completely not like him. 

They put the injection in, and in the time it took me to do a Hail Mary (and you know Catholics pray fast) she was gone. Just like that. So peaceful, so calm and such a blessing that it was like that. She was so ready. I sat with her a minute and pet that soft fur, and told the vet (it wasn't her regular vet) how I got Nina and how Nina and Kramer had bonded over time. Kramer did a great job, and I know it was an honor for Nina, to be cared for so deeply and protected by him. I still cannot believe how fast it was. I can't believe she's not here-I've gotten up to check on her-and then sit back down. 

We came home so Kramer could go in and rest, and then Bruno and I took her to the crematorium-Bruno has to see things for himself or he cannot relax. I can pick her up Friday on my way home from a meeting in Rochester. 

The vet and staff were great. They asked what I wanted to do with her harness, and I just could not bear to see it on another one of my dogs, so I donated it to them to use for dogs there, or to show other owners so that other dogs can maybe have some greater quality of life. I did keep her Phantom of the Opera collar of course. 

I miss her. And I am sure it will hit me harder as my brain allows it. The rest of the packistanis are being so good, and so helpful in their need for attention. 

One other thing-two years ago today, Melinda's mom passed away. I had wanted her to adopt Nina (before I did) because I thought they were a good match and would make each other laugh a lot. I thought it was interesting that they would pass on the same day-and know that Nina has someone really good taking care of her. 

Thank you again for all your help. I am so appreciative for all the support over this past week. It helped me-which helped Nina, and as sweet as I tell you she was, if you met her you would say she was even better still.


----------



## TMarie

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I haven't had many words to say, because I have just been at a loss. I cry everytime I come to this thread, everytime I think of you and Nina.

You are the BEST!! I am happy Kramer was there with Nina and he behaved. Thats my boy.

Please take care, and know that I keep you, your pack and Nina close in my heart. {{hugs}}


----------



## fourdogsrule

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I am so sorry for your loss. I have been in your shoes before and it is the worst thing I have had to do.
Nina is now watching over you and your pack.
She will always be with you where ever you are.
Please know that you are in your thoughts and prayers.







Nina, you may be gone, but never forgotten!!


----------



## marksmom3

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I'm so sorry it came to this for Nina, but I'm glad it was a peaceful passing. What a great job by Kramer to watch over her. It goes without saying that Nina knew love and devotion until the very end. Sending prayers to you and your pack.

RIP Nina


----------



## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean thank Kramer for us. He was with Nina and you when you needed him. Hugs to Bruno who Nina loved to flirt with.

It will take some time for you not to keep thinking she is still there. She is watching over you and the pack, so you better straighten up an fly right as they say. 

Nina wouldn't want you to be sad, she would want you to remember all the good times because every minute she was with you was good to her.

Val


----------



## M&J

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAAN
> 
> ... he got out like he had a job to do-shoulders rolled and ready to go-and Nina saw him-and knew he was there......
> 
> ........ I thought it was interesting that they would pass on the same day-and know that Nina has someone really good taking care of her.


----------



## LJsMom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I'm so sorry, Jean. Even though its been over a year since my Niko passed from cancer, the pain still feels fresh. My heart breaks for you.

Joanne

PS - Kramer rocks!


----------



## GSDTrain

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Oh Jean, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of Nina.

RIP Nina, you are gone but NOT forgotten. Your were loved by us all and have a special place in our hearts.


----------



## ninhar

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I am so sorry. When I read your description of Nina this morning my heart sunk because she sounded just like Robby did on Saturday morning when the decision was made to take him to the vet.


----------



## Avamom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*



> Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANas sweet as I tell you she was, if you met her you would say she was even better still.


 that description just sums it up, doesn't it! 

Words just don't seem adequate right now.....








Nina








Kramer








Jean


----------



## ThreeDogs

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean,

I wish I had profound words of comfort for you and your pack. But the words are not there. But the tears are, for you and for your beautiful Nina.

Thank you for sharing Nina's life with us

R.I.P Beautiful Nina


----------



## hudak004

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, no matter what the age, its never long enough, I hope that soon you will think of Nina and smile, and remember everything that made her, well.. Nina. Please take care of yourself, and I hope your pack can give you comfort, I am sorry, Nina was SOO lucky to have you, remember that!!


----------



## ncgsdmom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

So sorry for the loss of your beloved Nina. Nina was very lucky to have you, and you to have her...I'm sure she is smiling and wagging her tail at the bridge. You gave her so much love, and such a wonderful life in the time you had her. Cherish the happy times. Once again, my condolences.


----------



## kshort

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I was just looking out my upstairs window, thinking about you and Nina. I see one star - I kid you not - one very bright star in the sky...

My deepest condolences. I feel like I've lost one of my own tonight.

Nina sweetie, you will be in very good company and you will be well cared for, healthy and running, until we all meet again. Please let your momma know you're alright... I think that will bring her a huge amount of comfort.


----------



## moei

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Ah Kramer.








Thank you for being there for Nina and Jean. 

Jean, I do not have any words of comfort or wisdom or anything to help you deal with this. I can only send you cyber
























































and for your packistan


----------



## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*






















Nina!





























for Jean and the pack
















Nina had the bset life had to offer with you.


----------



## shilohsmom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean I am so very, very sorry for the loss of Nina. She sure was one lucky girl to have you in her life. Kramer is a champ-he seemed to know exactly what to do and when. 
Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. 
Hugs,


----------



## Barb E

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*



> Originally Posted By: ThreeDogsJean,
> 
> I wish I had profound words of comfort for you and your pack. But the words are not there. But the tears are, for you and for your beautiful Nina.
> 
> Thank you for sharing Nina's life with us
> 
> R.I.P Beautiful Nina


I can not say it any better than this so I'm going to just add another


----------



## Sean Rescue Mom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I remember when we wrote up and back because you thought Nina might have a form of Histiocytosis. I was so happy when that turned out to be false but now my heart is heavy for you.







We share our lives with our pets and when they leave a part of us leaves as well. My thoughts and sympathies go out to you and your precious Nina.


----------



## valb

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I'm so sorry Jean. So sorry. The pain of having them go is so very
hard to bear.

R.I.P. beautiful Nina. Good girl.


----------



## 3K9Mom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Sigh. I'm terribly sorry. My heart won't even give my brain any words. It's just a big vacuum right now. 

I'm going to go outside, sit on my porch and cry for awhile. 

Jean, I'll pm you later.


----------



## kelso

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Rest in Peace, Nina








Run Free, sweet girl









Take care, Jean.







Glad Kramer was there to be such a good support for you and Nina and hope your pack is helping you smile.


----------



## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Run free sweet Nina.









Jean, make sure you tell Kramer how much he rocks. Nina and Kramer remind me of Tika and Phoenix in reverse order. 

Kramer you are an AWESOME dog to your human and your canines.


----------



## Brightelf

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Run free Nina-so-Loved.







Hugs to you, wonderful Jean.







Kramer, you are beyond wise and wonderful.







R.I.P. dear sweetie Nina.


----------



## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

So this is weird-not taking care of Nina. But knowing she is at peace is I guess the consolation for not having her here with me. 

I looked at my other dogs last night and thought that I felt like I hadn't seen them in a long time. They were SO good about letting Nina's needs go front and center. 

I just re-read all these posts from the past couple of days and want to say thank you again. I really can't put it into words, either, how much it has helped and how kind and soothing your words have been. Each and every one of you. 

Nina-I am sorry about Robby-I need to stop avoiding that section so much. Rosa-good to see you here. 

And Kramer was very helpful all night-he wouldn't leave me alone (it helped I had a pizza-so pizza bones). So sweet-and the best thing-my meeting just got cancelled so I am going to take him out today and do something nice for him. Melinda sent me a bajillion political links to keep my mind off things, I had your posts, and the rest of the pack and all helped. 

Do you guys ever get your vet office something after something like this? Is there an etiquette for it? 

Thank you again. x infinity.


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## Jazzstorm

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

<span style="color: #3333FF">Hi Jean...{{{HUGS}}} to you. 

I really don't know who the **** that Bach guy is....sorry. I just really love that quote....

Take care..... 








Sweet Nina....</span>


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## dd

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

So sad, Jean. I am so very sorry. She had some great years with you and she isn't suffering now. I know you have many funny memories of her, and later, much later, you'll be able to think of her and remember her that way.


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## Ilovealldogs

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

{{{Jean}}} I am so sorry to hear about Nina. She was so fortunate to have such a loving mom. I am glad Kramer has been there for you! Like others have stated, I wish there were words that I could say that would help you in your grieving process, but I cannot begin to express how sorry I am for your loss. Many of us have been in your shoes and so many will be all too soon. We always have to wonder why evil humans live so long and animals live such a short period of time.


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## Avamom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I sent a thank you card to the vets office after having Riggs put to sleep, just to thank them for their understanding. I think since your vets office, and especially Nina's tech are probably missing her too that would be nice. I know from my sister who is a vet, the vets and staff get very attached to the clients too and when I worked at a vets office it was very very sad when a beloved client passed.

I do want to put out this warning because I was not prepared for this myself....losing Riggs was extremely hard but I was very surprised by how hard it was to pick up his ashes, that hit me harder than I was prepared for, I guess it was the finality of it all but I just sat in my car with his little box unable to go into the house. Just wanted to let you know so you may be prepared.


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## Daisy1986

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*








Nina! 

I am SO glad Kramer was there for you both, what a guy! 
Jean thank you for sharing so much with us. 


A little later when I was able to, I took a framed picture of my dog Thandie to my vet. They knew her well, she was ill for 4 yrs. The vet and the staff really liked it. It still hangs there to this day. When I take Shadow and the rest of my pack I look on the wall and see it. It is like she watching over us there and the other animals.


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## shilohsmom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Just wanted to check in on you today Jean. My heart just hurts for you... its just so very hard to loose one of our furkids. 
I think the picture and card for the Vets office would be nice if thats what you would like to do. 
I hope you find comfort in these next days knowing you provided Nina with the best home she ever could have hoped for. She was so loved and will never be forgotten.
Hugs,


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## Kayos and Havoc

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I did a counted crossstitch of a GSD for my vet's office. When we moved from KY it was still on the wall in the waiting area. I also bought them a stone figure of a cat which is in the garden's at the side of the clinic. Dr. Taylor's wife was an avid gardner and the landscaping at the clinc was always so nice and a relaxing place to sit. I have not lost a pet here in OR and hope I don't but if I do I will do something for the vet and staff. 

I think it appropriate and welcomed by the staff to show a kindness by thanking them for their humanity with my special pets. 

Jean when I had Kayos up at WSu I picked up some brochures about cremation and memorials for pets. One of the pamphlets I picked up was from a vet here in the Pac NW. He does glass blowing as a hobby and incorporates the animal's ashes into a glass globe. The were beautiful and I am thinking about this for Max when his time comes. I have always had my dogs cremated but have never asked for the ashes back, mainly because we are internationlly mobile and the ashes are prohibited to move.

The brochures are at home so I do not have the web site. If you are interested I will get it and post it tonight.


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## Kayos and Havoc

These are the memory globes, I think they are beautiful.
http://www.petreflectionsinglass.com/


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## LisaT

*Re: Semi-sudden loss of hind legs or back end weak*

Jean, I'm so sorry.

No inspiring words, I'm just so sorry.

Give the rest of the pack extra snuggles and hugs for me. I am glad that they are there with you.


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## ded37

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean - I will do no justice with words. I will privately send you my thoughts. A very very big hug from someone else who knows what it is like to have to let go. 

Hoping Nina and Max get to meet each other at the Bridge. I am certain Nina has lots of new friends.


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## natalie559

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

So, so sorry Jean- my thoughts are with you. . .


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## littledmc17

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I am so sorry 
At least she was with everyone that loved her the most 







Nina

She'll always be watching over you


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## DancingCavy

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

R.I.P. beautiful, lovely Nina. It sounds like she was a special soul. Kudos to Kramer for his wonderful work. *HUGS* Jean.


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## Nikkoli110

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Wow, I'm sorry I hadn't seen this thread earlier. I'm so sorry about Nina, what a beautiful dog. You were such an awesome mom, it takes a strong person to be able to help her the way you did. I just sat here and cried my way through this thread, I am just amazed. I hope I can be as good a mom as you were to Nina and the rest of your pack.


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## Myamom

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

My thoughts and prayers are with you my friend.......


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## SunCzarina

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I am so sorry. Our thought are with you and your pack.







Nina


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## Betty

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Oh Jean, I am so very sorry. I wish I could take some of the pain for you.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean I am very sorry for your loss. my thoughts are with you.


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## pupresq

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Oh Jean, I am so sorry for you and your family.







I am coming very late to this and hadn't realized what was going on. I know what you mean about the prayer for clarity and I'm glad Nina was able to give that to you. Good dogs are good dogs all the way through. My thoughts are with you guys and all of Jeanpackistan.


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## elviraglass

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean, I am very sorry for your loss. I wanted to share something with you that I hope will encourage you. 

My son in a dream came to a very beautiful meadow with lush grass and rolling hills. As he was standing in the lush grass he noticed dogs running and frolicking in the tall grass. As he was watching, two dogs seperated from the other pack and came toward him. He then noticed that it was Sabrie and Kaiser two of our dogs who have gone to the bridge in the past. He couldn't believe it and started crying. They came right up to him and he bend down petting and crying over them because he misses them very much to this day. They let him know they were happy and alright. That revelation was so real that my son is convinced he was literally in that place and literally met our dogs there and he is looking forward to seeing them again when it is time for him to go.

So, I know that Nina is there, too now, running around without pain and enjoying the beauty of the heavenly meadow.


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## Guest

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Jean you've heard me say my thoughts many times by now about the loss of our dogs, forgive me if saying them again is unnecessary for you.

In saying goodbye to so many dogs now over the years I have finally come to understand the loss. Dogs give us so much of themselves it seems their love is priceless - but there is a price and that is in their oh so much shorter lives than our's. Having said that and looking back at all I have received from my dogs I still think I've come out far, far ahead. I know you do too, Jean. 

The dogs you have now are giving much as you just noted. They understand your need to have spent more time with Nina. We are the most fortunate in the relationship we have with our dogs for we gain the most. I know you understand that too. 

Still I think of Ecclesiastes in times like these. Playing a little of The Birds for you now.



> Quote:...A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
> a time to mourn, and a time to dance...


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## Katerlena

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I haven't been on this thread in a long while and was very saddened to read this post. It seemed Nina's illness just came on so suddenly and I can't imagine how difficult this all has been. I am so very sorry for your loss and you and your furry babies will be in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Qyn

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

While I have read this thread every few hours I could not post again until now. Deepest sympathy to Jean and all the pakistanis including the wonderful Kramer.

It is strange, but not unwelcome, that some dogs (and other animals), even if only known via photos; stories told in pictures and words; plus the love and caring another person has conveyed, can have such an impact. Nina joins Annalise, Chewbacca, Kramer, Duke (& many others I do not want to name for fear of missing one) that have become very significant to me and no doubt to others.

A lot of that is due to the special people who hold guardianship and their ability to make dogs such as Nina almost a part of someone else's family.

Goodbye sweet Nina. You take a chunk of my heart with you. I am privileged that Jean shared your life with us.

RIP sweet girl


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

You guys are the best. I just read all these comments and am so appreciative of all these stories, thoughts, and wishes. It is such a comfort. 

Yesterday, I tried to work and think-and that didn't go anywhere (I mean-nowhere!), so everyone and I napped for the afternoon. Then we went out, they played, and sucked up as much attention as they could. They were quieter yesterday too. Kind of a sadness, fatigue, whatever, but they were either feeling it, or getting it from me. I need to take Kramer and Bruno out for some fun because Kramer is a little more upset than the rest, and Bruno follows Kramer, though he's been trying to make me laugh and that is very helpful. 

The girls are a little tougher-and really wanting the attention-so that also helps. 

Kathy-those globes are beautiful. I was looking at urns at the place and the lady said you know you can always buy things later and transfer them-so what is nice is that right now I can't buy one, but could at another time. They are really gorgeous. 

I love all the ideas for the vet offices-I started working on stuff yesterday but just couldn't figure things out-too many steps. 

I talked to her groomer today and thanked her for helping to give Nina a better quality of life and such good care. 

Today I go back and pick her up. That is something I need to prepare for. 

I guess given that, this thread can be moved to the other section? 

I am just amazed at the true caring on this board for other peoples' pets. I could sit and write this stuff out and get no feedback-but you guys really do make them like one of your own. I feel priveliged to share her with you. 

Think of this-Nina was left at a shelter, at age 8, with no real hope of adoption-given her size, color, and issues. She went from being alone and unloved to having the good fortune of being cared about by people all over the world. And I got the opportunity to enjoy a sweet little old lady who made me laugh every day. 

I did definitely get more from her-and she is missed. 

Thank you all again.


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## RebelGSD

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

I am so sorry for your loss, I was hoping you and Nina would have much more time together.

Run free Nina, with Chewbacca, Millie, Alma and other fine canines who crossed the Bridge before you.
You had many friends here.


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## Daisy1986

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Thinking of you today.









Hope it goes well or went well, if you have already picked her up? 

Take all the time you need with the urn. No rush. 

Do something special for yourself! Soon.


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## Amaruq

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*



> Originally Posted By: Daisy1986Thinking of you today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it goes well or went well, if you have already picked her up?
> 
> Take all the time you need with the urn. No rush.
> 
> *Do something special for yourself! Soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Agree to all of the above! I think you need some Kramer Canon therapy.


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## WiscTiger

*Re: Nina-Wednesday 9/24*

Tribute to Nina http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=810434&page=1#Post810434


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