# I'm done with Puppys



## bobbyshur (May 3, 2016)

READ ALL. Ok so first off to say That I have officially put my 8 month old pure breed German Shepherd on Craigslist. With That being said let me say why I have doNE this. FIRST: The biting,whenever I grab his collar to get his mouth off stuff I don't want him biting he jumps up bites my arm like the wild animal he is and Thinks my arm is a chew toy. SECONDulling in front of the leash and always trying to be in the front. 


THIRD:BITING S H IT That isn't his because he has no manners for anything even though we gave him plenty of toys. 

FOURTH:Jumping on guests like the wild animal he is and trying to play bite them. All these wild behaviors he has is why I don't like to take care of puppys. He's in the kennel most of the day because when we let him out and take our eye off him for one second he's caught biting something thats not his or pee somewhere so I'm kinda fed up with Puppys. I tried teaching him some things but my sister keeps spoiling him and loving him which leads to him being out of control. If we were all strict he would be a good boy but of course he thinKS he can bite whoever I hope one day he bites the wrong animal and it will teach him a lesson. 

Yes I know he's the happiest puppy out there but I don't think wild animals and me could get along I only like human trained animals that know what their doing. I also hate babys because they don't know what their doing their just like puppys. No I don't hate my puppy I love him but he's too wild for me and I can't take care of such a high drive/active puppy

The reasons I have just listed is why I put him up for rehome who can control him. Because hes out of control in the house whenever he's biting me I try squeeze his ear then he starts whimpering then I feel bad for doing so. I need some way to teach this wild animal some god d a m manners does anyone know what I should do. Im thinking about getting a shock collar and a prong collar to control him.


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## pharmcee (Mar 25, 2016)

bobbyshur said:


> READ ALL. Ok so first off to say That I have officially put my 8 month old pure breed German Shepherd on Craigslist. With That being said let me say why I have doNE this. FIRST: The biting,whenever I grab his collar to get his mouth off stuff I don't want him biting he jumps up bites my arm like the wild animal he is and Thinks my arm is a chew toy. SECONDulling in front of the leash and always trying to be in the front.
> 
> 
> THIRD:BITING S H IT That isn't his because he has no manners for anything even though we gave him plenty of toys.
> ...


I barely qualify to give advice, being a new GSD owner, but right off the bat I can infer that your pup is a reflection of you - not his fault, but yours.

You cannot expect a puppy to be a "human-trained" if you DO NOT TRAIN HIM. If you have lack of experience with the breed, find help. There are plenty of trainers willing to help, and not being able to afford one is not an excuse - there are several resources available to you including, but not limited to, books, videos, and this very forum.

"Physical" training will not help your puppy if you do not have experience. It sounds like the equipment you want to use will definitely do more harm then good on your pup, so seek professional help! And of course he will whimper if you hurt his ear - they feel pain just like we do.

I hope someone manages to take the puppy off your hands, for his sake.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Please do not sell your dog on Craigslist. People look for dogs to use as bait dogs. He could be injured and die. Please tell us where you are located and we will find you a rescue group to give him to. Or a trainer if you are willing to try something else with him.


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## Springbrz (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm sorry your puppy didn't work out for you but Craig's List is not the place to find a new GOOD Home for him. Where did you get him? A good breeder would want to know you are rehoming him and would want first right of refusal. That said a good breeder would be there to help you find your pup it's new home. If you didn't get him from a good breeder then it would be in the best interest of the pup to surrender him to a GSD rescue. If you give your general location we might be able to help you find him a new home.

How old is this puppy? I prong collar and definitely not an e collar on a young pup. You don't what you are doing and will cause more harm than good.

Yes... (removed by ADMIN) poor pup rehome him. But do it the right way. Contact your breeder or a GSD rescue.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

( Removed by ADMIN ) 

If you put your dog on Craig's list, it could be picked up by dog fighters, have its muzzle duck-taped and then given as bait to some fighting dogs to tear apart. The fighter will continue to goad the dogs to maul and maul the puppy so to teach them to keep going. Is this what you want? 

Where did you get your puppy? Can you take it back?

Have you taken your puppy to classes? 

It is too late, and I'm too tired for this post today. Sorry, hope you get some real advice, because this is a puppy, not a coffee table. We don't just put them out there to be picked up by the next person who has a passing fancy to have a puppy.


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## sebrench (Dec 2, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> Please do not sell your dog on Craigslist. People look for dogs to use as bait dogs. He could be injured and die. Please tell us where you are located and we will find you a rescue group to give him to. Or a trainer if you are willing to try something else with him.


I agree with LuvShepherds. Try to get your pup to a GSD rescue group. If you want to work on his issues (and they seem like relatively normal puppy behavior to me), you could take him to an obedience class with an experienced instructor, preferably one who has worked a lot with shepherds. His other caregivers could come with you to the classes and learn how to be consistent in training him. If price is an issue, group classes are pretty affordable. (Obviously, if your pup is dog aggressive, group classes would not be a good idea.) Also, how much exercise is he getting? Shepherds are working dogs and need mental and physical stimulation....a tired puppy is a good puppy!


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## bobbyshur (May 3, 2016)

LuvShepherds said:


> Please do not sell your dog on Craigslist. People look for dogs to use as bait dogs. He could be injured and die. Please tell us where you are located and we will find you a rescue group to give him to. Or a trainer if you are willing to try something else with him.


Omg that's horrible but the guy that contacted me that wants him has a family and they are looking for a family pet n he said he had exprience wit large dogs but please tell me how to handle the problems we have with him. Not giving him to a rescue since we paid over 1500 for him. You want to see a pic of him? Everyone says he's beautiful


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## bobbyshur (May 3, 2016)

(Quoted text removed by Admin - original post had been deleted). 


Well he used to be in the house all the Time but then he got destructive so we had to start leaving him in the kemnel. He has play times but I don't mean all day maybe 5 hours of the day hes in there when we can't watch him


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## bobbyshur (May 3, 2016)

selzer said:


> If you put your dog on Craig's list, it could be picked up by dog fighters, have its muzzle duck-taped and then given as bait to some fighting dogs to tear apart. The fighter will continue to goad the dogs to maul and maul the puppy so to teach them to keep going. Is this what you want?
> 
> Where did you get your puppy? Can you take it back?
> 
> ...


sounds awful but I was gonna make sure he goes to a happy family people who do that are just cruel.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Where are you located? Maybe a trainer can be suggested?


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## Saito (Dec 3, 2015)

bobbyshur said:


> LuvShepherds said:
> 
> 
> > Please do not sell your dog on Craigslist. People look for dogs to use as bait dogs. He could be injured and die. Please tell us where you are located and we will find you a rescue group to give him to. Or a trainer if you are willing to try something else with him.
> ...


Spent $1500 and still don't care about ensuring he goes to a proper home after giving literally zero effort at your home...

You've already abused the pup its whole life.
Stop thinking about getting a few bucks back.
And see to it that it goes to where it can get exercise, training, and attention.
It's the very least you could do for the pup after all the torture you've put it through.


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## DutchKarin (Nov 23, 2013)

Unless you are willing to invest a lot of time and money getting a good trainer to help you turn this around, rehome him. You owe this dog a good home. The last thing should be you worrying about your money. I wish the very best for him.


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## voodoolamb (Jun 21, 2015)

bobbyshur said:


> Omg that's horrible but the guy that contacted me that wants him has a family and they are looking for a family pet n he said he had exprience wit large dogs but please tell me how to handle the problems we have with him. Not giving him to a rescue since we paid over 1500 for him. You want to see a pic of him? Everyone says he's beautiful


That $1500 is what my grandpa would refer as "a dummy tax". You made a mistake, you paid money for a dog you can't handle. You are not going to recoup that cash. Life lesson. 

Do what is in the best interest of this living thing you took responsibility for. Give him to a rescue - they have the resources to find -good- homes. They do home visits, personal and vet references, and many will support the dog it's entire life - if for some reason the new home doesn't work out, the dog goes back to the rescue. 

Then don't get another large breed working dog. 

Since you asked, you handle the problems you have by providing proper exercise, social interaction, and training. 

I hope this is a troll, but I've seen this same scenario play out over and over again in rescue. Sad.


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## girardid (Aug 13, 2015)

It sounds like OP has found a decent place for the dogs new home and it doesnt seem like the pup is crated all day. 5 hours is not that bad. My pup is in his crate while I'm at work at least 4 hours a day or sometimes up to 8 with a break in between. This guy realizes he bit off more than he can chew and wants to do right by his pup by finding someone experienced to take him in. If i had not had this forum or had gotten a gsd as a kid like i wanted my family would have done the same due simply to lack of knowledge. What OP needs to do if he wants to keep the dog is find a working dog trainer and sign up for lessons as long as its not a board and train all this can be fixed


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

Enough with the attacks and shaming!!! Please act grownup, and help the OP place the puppy responsibly. 

I deleted a bunch of posts that were childish and petty - hate to do it, but warnings may follow to remind people to be more adult. 

OP sounds like he is a young person, just like dogs, people don't come out of the box knowing everything.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

To the Op, people who look for bait dogs through CL are very convincing. They sometimes stage a family set up. 

About two years ago there was a horrific outcome for a pup placed on cl. Worst case many had ever seen. It happened in my neck of the woods.

I tried to link but I'm not good at that yet. "Puppy Doe, craigslist" will bring up the stories.

In a world full of horrors, please don't fall prey or allow your pup to fall prey to it.

Sometimes hard choices have to be made. Sometimes a person can work through it. You know yourself best, you know your pup best.

Which ever you decide, you do have many here that can help the odds of success for either decision.

Just please help your pup with the best available options for the decision you make.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

At least contact the breeder! Most good breeders will take back the pup to rehome him and perhaps rehab him a bit before this behavior causes a cycle of rehoming.....


Lee


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

bobbyshur said:


> . Not giving him to a rescue since we paid over 1500 for him. You want to see a pic of him? Everyone says he's beautiful


Can I ask who your breeder is? Have you contacted your breeder? What is your dog's pedigree? And where are you located?


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

A few good reasons NOT to put your dog up on Craigslist


....is charged with turning the basement of his house into a makeshift animal torture chamber and abattoir. If the allegations are true, many innocent pets died gruesome deaths at the hands of an evil man.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/man-charged-with-torturing-and-killing-pets-he-adopted-from-craigslist.html#ixzz47bACmb6U


The dangers of rehoming pets on Craigslist and free to good home 
^^^^
They may be used as bait animals for dog fighting.
People who torture and kill animals like to search the listings for new victims.
Other people that source animals for research facilities all use these ads to find pets.
A newer phenomena is pet flipping – searching free adds for pets to sell for a profit elsewhere (they often end up in one of the above categories).


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Heartandsoul said:


> To the Op, people who look for bait dogs through CL are very convincing. They sometimes stage a family set up.
> 
> .



From the second link I provided in prior post


People who score pets for dogfighting rings have been known to show up to pick up free pets or pets advertised on Craigslist with women and children in tow to make it look like the pet is headed to a family or good home. That is why reference and home checks are so important.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

Money aside, do what's best for the dog and that means finding him the right home. Either contact the breeder you got him from or contact a rescue, both will have the resources to assess and rehabilitate if needed and find him the proper home. It's not the dog's fault it wasn't a match, so do it for his sake


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Guys, people who get bait dogs and dogs to torture off Craigslist are getting them for free or very cheap. Sounds like the OP is trying to recoup as much of their $1500 as possible so I doubt the pup is listed for free or cheap.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Castlemaid said:


> Enough with the attacks and shaming!!! Please act grownup, and help the OP place the puppy responsibly.
> 
> I deleted a bunch of posts that were childish and petty - hate to do it, but warnings may follow to remind people to be more adult.
> 
> OP sounds like he is a young person, just like dogs, people don't come out of the box knowing everything.


Shoot, I'm really sorry. I honestly didn't mean to come across that way, my only point was that I agreed that a rescue would be a good route.

My apologies, OP. I didn't intend to shame you. I hope you can find a good situation for your puppy.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I'm horrified someone would sell a dog on CL. Some rescues will allow people to give up their dogs as separate individuals and you might be able to get some money back. Please don't sell the dog to a stranger. If you insist on selling, contact a local GSD training club, explain the situation and see if someone there wants to buy an untrained out of control older puppy. 

Your dog is no longer worth $1500. It will cost over $1500 with a professional trainer to undo the bad habits the dog has learned or $1500 in time by an experienced dog owner. You did that by not training.

I'm trying very hard to be descriptive without sounding rude.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm also going to say please don't sell your pup on Craigslist. There are so many nightmare stories as had been mentioned. Many people who say they have a loving home to offer are just mere words. If you need to rehome this pup please do responsibly as you do owe him this. It sounds like this pup has gotten away with many bad behaviors which only escalated. a recommended trainer can fix with time and patience. If you do find a home please make sure it's not someone from Craigslist and his new home is qualified to handle and train a pup who has these issues.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

Emoore said:


> Guys, people who get bait dogs and dogs to torture off Craigslist are getting them for free or very cheap. Sounds like the OP is trying to recoup as much of their $1500 as possible so I doubt the pup is listed for free or cheap.


 
Sounds like the OP is trying to recoup some money. How much was not noted.
Anyone who replies to the ad will likely barter the price down.
Is the dog neutered?
Another risk as unscrupulous people will buy, use for breeding and/or flip the dog for more money. This dog could end up back on craigslist as new owner may also be in over their head and give up on said dog too.


OP, you said you love him. Show him you care by doing what is suggested. Rescue will have the skills to find an appropriate home.
This dog is biting. He changes homes after spending his short life with you could result in a dangerous bite to the "family" looking for a "family" dog.


Now please advise the area you are in, so the many helpful people here can point you in the RIGHT direction.


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## KillRbee18 (Apr 11, 2016)

One word ---- "wow"! To bad I didn't live where you lived ---- I would have loved to take him off your hands.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

We have to tell about what happens when the dog goes to Craig's list. This man is NOT going to find someone who will give him 1500$ for his puppy. He will NOT find anyone who will give him half that. After fruitless attempts to get a good portion of his money back, if this guy is really wanting to get rid of the dog, he will accept little to nothing for him. 

And the pretty lady with the story of her kids who just lost their father, and their dog of 14 years just may be the ticket. She will assure him a loving home for the dog. She may even bring children with her. And he will be so ready to let the dog go, that it will seem the perfect thing. And this could be a dog fighter having his girl friend procure a cheap/free dog for him. 

I repeat, no one is going to give $1500 dollars or even $700 for an 8 month old, unruly, untrained puppy. 

Do the right thing for your dog, and call the breeder. Take him back to the breeder. His faults were caused by your failure to train him and work with him daily, to take him to classes and work with him at home. The dog is fixable. Will take more time, but YOU will learn how to provide proper leadership to a dog. And then you will be able to have what you envisioned when you purchased your dog. 

So, you have choices:

1. Spend more money, time, and a lot of energy, to find an experienced trainer and work through his adolescent stage. In the end you gain a great dog, and experience in raising and training dogs.

2. Lose the $1500, and take the dog back to the breeder or try to find a reputable rescue who will take an owner-surrender. Dog is gone and so are your issues. You go away having learned that you aren't cut out for raising and training an intelligent working breed puppy. If you get a dog again, try an adult with a known temperament, and then take the animal to classes and learn how to communicate with him and make him a member of your family, before issues arise. 

3. Stay your course. Advertise your puppy, and then try and judge the people who would like to come and take him away. 


Again, the problems your puppy has are due to your leadership/lack of training. You owe it to this guy to either work through it, or get him to someone good. This puppy should not suffer a terrible fate because he landed with you. Yes, yes, we all started somewhere, and many of us made a mess of our first GSD. So, up to this point, what has happened is water under the bridge, can't change it. But what you do from this point, is up to you. Make good choices for your dog. 

I am not going to give any advice about dealing with your dog's problems other than finding a good trainer who can work hands-on with you and the dog. If you post your general location, some people here can probably give good recommendations. 

Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Castlemaid, since you have smacked us for saying something about the language in the guy's post, can you please go through it and remove the offensive language so we can be family-friendly?


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

OP - the best thing you can do for this dog it to work thru your breeder to sell him. Either your breeder can buy him back, or help you find a new home for him.

Craigslist is not the way to go!


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## Traveler's Mom (Sep 24, 2012)

I think this guy is just posting to stir up our emotions. His first post is 11:04am EST last night. Second and third just after midnight today after he received some attention. At selzer's request, I'll keep this family friendly and not write what I'm really thinking about this guy. 

Likely some sickie that couldn't sleep and wanted to make trouble. I don't know that and can only pray I'm right but for the fact he hasn't been back. 

Lynn & Traveler


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Traveler's Mom said:


> I think this guy is just posting to stir up our emotions. His first post is 11:04am EST last night. Second and third just after midnight today after he received some attention. At selzer's request, I'll keep this family friendly and not write what I'm really thinking about this guy.
> 
> Likely some sickie that couldn't sleep and wanted to make trouble. I don't know that and can only pray I'm right but for the fact he hasn't been back.
> 
> Lynn & Traveler


So because he only spent an hour on here in less than 24 hours, he's a sickie wanting to cause trouble?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think he's a kid. Usually, kids are the ones that need to swear to prove they can. I agree that he may be doing this just to get us going, but on the chance that he really has a pup that he is overwhelmed with, possible, we are giving him advice.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Whoever this is this is an article about about what happens to dogs sold on Craigslist I found another article that was so disgusting it would be deleted from the thread but they found that monster I could not read all of it. 
This article if a kid it is disturbing- if it is a sickie they deserve to be disturbed. 
https://our-compass.org/2012/04/11/...gslist-dog-killer-sentenced-in-west-virginia/
There are so mAny more stories like this so do not doubt it only happened once.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well I say ... he gets a pass! It's a OMG, what have I gotten myself into moment. 

I had one myself, Pack Fights and my Dog is Growling at Company, what do I do????? I never saw any of that coming, but I got it done without a Trainer I might add and force free.

Yeah he (apparently) got taken by surprise ... crap happens, it is what one does afterwards that matters. 

There are answers available, if he wants to continue onward with this "puppy" and of course, for the puppy biting thing ... I got it covered. And no years of experience needed. If he gets the biting crap uncontrol ... things may seem different to him?? 

But if he's gone??? Not much point in me going on ... pretty sure that this is not the only out of control "puppy" out there.


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## graciesmom (Jun 10, 2006)

I was always told "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Which is why I don't typically respond to this type of post, but I do commend those of you who have invested time and thought in your responses. However, I really think this is a troll. I've read and reread the op's email and it does not read to me as though the op is sincerely looking for advice or help. He/she has made their decision. If so, why tell us? Is it to get a rise out of us? There are also comments in the op's email that I think are meant to get a rise out of everyone, ie ".. I also hate babies ..." and " ... I try to squeeze his ear ..." Interesting that the op has not responded to anyone's post as yet. I think the op is sitting back, watching and enjoying the ruckus they've created.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip18 said:


> Well I say ... he gets a pass! It's a OMG, what have I gotten myself into moment.
> 
> I had one myself, Pack Fights and my Dog is Growling at Company, what do I do????? I never saw any of that coming, but I got it done without a Trainer I might add and force free.
> 
> ...


Kudos to you! Pat yourself on the back! You got it done without a trainer, awesome! Well, you had a pack of dogs, so, obviously, this was not your first experience with dogs. But whatever. 

The number of people that can read a book and train their first dog that they have allowed to have a lot of nuisance behaviors until it is 8 months old, without anyone helping him figure the dog and his own interaction with the dog out, are not that many. 

Any trainer can teach people to teach their dog to sit, down, stay, heel. No problemo! Put a prong collar on the dog, and it will be doing it in one session. With another four or five sessions to back that up, he will be able to increase distance and time and have a good start on the basics. 

A good trainer assesses the dog AND the handler, watches the interaction, the timing and tone of praise and correction, offers different methods of training the same thing with respect to the parties involved, notes the body language of the handler and of the dog. You can't get that from a book. 

So while YOU might be able to do it without help, did you get as far as you might have done if you had help? 

Someone new to dogs, or new to the breed, or new to this particular type of dog, or who is facing a problem they haven't dealt with before would be wise to find an experienced trainer to work with.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

graciesmom said:


> I was always told "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". Which is why I don't typically respond to this type of post, but I do commend those of you who have invested time and thought in your responses. However, I really think this is a troll. I've read and reread the op's email and it does not read to me as though the op is sincerely looking for advice or help. He/she has made their decision. If so, why tell us? Is it to get a rise out of us? There are also comments in the op's email that I think are meant to get a rise out of everyone, ie ".. I also hate babies ..." and " ... I try to squeeze his ear ..." Interesting that the op has not responded to anyone's post as yet. I think the op is sitting back, watching and enjoying the ruckus they've created.


If he's a troll we can still use this thread for the next person who really does have an out of control dog they need to rehome or train. I agree, he sounds like a faker.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Kudos to you! Pat yourself on the back! You got it done without a trainer, awesome! Well, you had a pack of dogs, so, obviously, this was not your first experience with dogs. But whatever.
> 
> The number of people that can read a book and train their first dog that they have allowed to have a lot of nuisance behaviors until it is 8 months old, without anyone helping him figure the dog and his own interaction with the dog out, are not that many.


LOL ... Well ... then ...now, the OP is forgotten and it's back to "what we tend to do here." *Members who know what they are doing "debating" amongst themselves.* So if that's indeed the case .... :







 


Pack of dogs?? Well yeah in "retrospect" I did discover that two dogs are a pair and three dogs are yes indeed a "Pack!" 

And yep I had 10 years of experiance with raising and training dogs ... "Pits" and their derivatives at that, so dog number three ... my first WL GSD should have been "No Big Deal??" 

Yeah ... not so much! "Breed specific behaviours" and poor management?? Caught me flat footed as it were. Pack fights and Human Aggression ... "what be this crap" as it were??? What's different from me is my "problem was "116 lbs" and 18 or so months old before I realized I had a problem??

The OP's problem is a lot less formidable but adjust to scale and for him ..."It's still a surprise???" 

So he's under stress and freaking out and he vented ...that does not make him a bad owner. 



selzer said:


> *Any trainer can teach people to teach their dog to sit, down, stay, heel. No problemo! Put a prong collar on the dog, and it will be doing it in one session. With another four or five sessions to back that up, he will be able to increase distance and time and have a good start on the basics.
> 
> A good trainer assesses the dog AND the handler, watches the interaction, the timing and tone of praise and correction, offers different methods of training the same thing with respect to the parties involved, notes the body language of the handler and of the dog. You can't get that from a book. *


 This is not really a "find a trainer thread??" I have no disagreement with anything you've said here.

In fact it's been duly noted and saved by me. 

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/7569801-post70.html

But right now the puppy is apparently biting the crap out of anyone that moves and the OP is not looking for a "Smart Phone solution" he wants to crap to stop "Right Freaking Now" if he can get that to happen ... then he might reconsider giving the "pup" up??



selzer said:


> So while YOU might be able to do it without help, did you get as far as you might have done if you had help?


 Yep ... we're good thanks! I hope I'm luck enough to have another WL GSD that turns out just like "Rocky" minus the "Wobblers" of course. Oh by the way ... thanks for the compliment. 

And yes by and large my base "assumption" is "well if I can "fix" my dogs issues" without the aid of a hands on trainer ... then so can others?? 

Pointing people in what based on my "limited experiance" is the right direction can save some of them a few years worth of figuring it out.

Others that see things differently, are of course free to say so. :laugh2:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

To continue off topic, I think it only fair to add that probably a great many of the members that post on this forum got their feet wet training the family German Shepherd, or dog, as kids with nothing more than a book in hand, and it did it with relative success, especially the old timers. Basic obedience is a handful of commands, five or six of them, that would greatly improve most situations. Basic obedience is not rocket science.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip18 said:


> LOL ... Well ... then ...now, the OP is forgotten and it's back to "what we tend to do here." *Members who know what they are doing "debating" amongst themselves.* So if that's indeed the case .... :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will feel free to say so. 

Training is what the dog needs and what the dog does not have. He is biting, and he is jumping on everyone. With training the dog learns what behaviors get him an attaboy and what behaviors get him an Eh, No! 

Training builds the bond between the human and the canine. Without it, dogs end up on craigslist because the owner does not have the attachment to the dog. 

Find a Trainer is EXACTLY what this dude needs to do. 

And when someone says that the OP needs to find a good trainer, invariably, you trot out, beat your chest, and say, "I did it without a trainer, You can too!" How many dogs have you personally condemned to Craigslist or the local shelter? Because if someone who is having problems tries to do it on their own, and can't, then the dog is viewed as defective and out it goes. Because most people feel that if someone else can do something, so can I. We are not responsible for what other people do with their dogs. So, no, you are not responsible if someone tries to do it on their own, and fails. But when someone has already had a dog for 8 months and is ready to throw it out, they need a trainer. They need someone who can help them understand what it is they are doing wrong. When someone pays money to hear advice from someone, they are more likely to do the work on their end. When someone hears advice from someone they are paying, they are more likely to accept it rather than just throw their defenses up. 

This is the third or fourth time that I have suggested a trainer to a struggling owner for a puppy and you have come out beating your chest about how all that trainer crap isn't necessary. It does get frustrating. There is a puppy here that is in danger.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I have trained many dogs and I don't need to go to classes, but I do with each one of them. I started classes with my present pack and I was pretty much in obedience classes with mine for the last 6 yrs straight. This is the first time in a long time I'm not taking any classes and I miss it. The first year is nothing but obedience classes, usually 4-5 of them. I don't just take them to class, I work with them at home constantly. The classes offer distraction, a good bonding experience and chances are you learn something new. I think that training class costs should be part of the budget when getting any dog. I read some of the behaviors people have issues with and I can't help but wonder if those issues would exist if the dog started classes at 12 weeks.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> I will feel free to say so.
> 
> Training is what the dog needs and what the dog does not have. He is biting, and he is jumping on everyone. With training the dog learns what behaviors get him an attaboy and what behaviors get him an Eh, No!
> 
> ...


Hmm ... lots of words and "clearly" neither of is going to change our positions. I posted your advice so I'm good with that. I will add that "Baillif" himself said and I quote *"People pay him for his advice and then won't follow it!" * Long before that ... he took the time to tell "us" about the "Sit on the Dog" and "The Place Command" and I found other trainers that do those with "every dog" under there care. I packaged it up and ran with it. Plenty of happy dog owners out there now doing those ... I hear from them on occasion.  

Most "Trainers" that people turn to have no idea what those techniques are or what they are about?? A simple test "ask" them, about those if they have a dog with serious issues?? If the trainer or LOL (Behaviourist) says "I have no idea what those are??" ... Thank them for their time and move on ... is what "I" would advise. 

People don't need a trainer to train and do "those" but they do need to know about them. My goal is to make folks "aware" of "stuff." If I do it right?? Then they can decide if they need to find a trainer?? I can't decide that for them and as a wise "philosopher" once said:










:grin2:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

I think what people miss is that when you take a dog to classes the trainer is there to teach the handler. They don't train your dog, they teach the handler how to do so. You will get absolutely nowhere fast if you don't apply what you learn out of class. Timing is everything in training, you can't get that from reading a book or even someone explaining it. It needs to be seen, it needs to be corrected until it's done right. It can be awfully hard to undo training that was done wrong to begin with. If it's going to be done it should be done right from the get go.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

LOL, I luv how the "Find a Trainer" crowds says that like it's no big deal?? I guess the fact that there are members on here that have done just that! And some have spent thousands and gone through several "Trainers/Behaviorist" and "still" have problems?? 

A bit of guidance would be helpful and I can do that too but not my thing. I help people that can do it themselves and yes I have heard form them and they say "Thank You for being different!" 

But OK ... if I'm JQP and I have a dog with, as like to say "serious freaking issues" and want to find a trainer, I fire up the old inter net and I find this:

https://www.google.com/search?clien...-8&oe=utf-8#q=dog+trainer&channel=fs&start=10

So yeah if one has no idea what a good trainer looks like ...Good Luck with that. :grin2:


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Chip18 said:


> LOL, I luv how the "Find a Trainer" crowds says that like it's no big deal?? I guess the fact that there are members on here that have done just that! And some have spent thousands and gone through several "Trainers/Behaviorist" and "still" have problems??
> 
> A bit of guidance would be helpful and I can do that too but not my thing. I help people that can do it themselves and yes I have heard form them and they say "Thank You for being different!"
> 
> ...


You make a very good point. There are a lot of members that have been through multiple trainers, classes, and even behaviorists only to still be lost at sea with a problem dog. 

I think often people try to complicate things way more than they need to.

Not everybody has that kind of money for a GOOD trainer, nor do they always have access to one in their area. Somebody once mentioned that even seeing a trainer once a month can sometimes help, and their is merit to those words, depending on the problem. But when one uses common sense and say: Hey! This problem behavior can simply be seriously curbed with a sit-stay or a down-stay, then why not KISS and started working small steps that will produce big results? No able bodied person of relatively sound mind needs a trainer to teach sit or stay if they have access to a book or internet.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

I was hoping the poster would give us a location as well. We all know great trainers. The puppy and you need some training. Boredom is the root of all evil. Your dog is bored and nobody does anything with him. He is acting like the toddler he is and getting into everything.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

So true boredom is the cause of so many behavior issues. These dogs need more then walking as exercise. Still there can be no argument that a recommended trainer with German shepherd experience would be beneficial to this owner. If not only a few lessons to get a good grasp on the foundation of it all. It's one thing as I trained all my dogs myself -growing up as a kid none had any issues and all were off leash regularly without issue. It's one thing when the dog has issues. You can learn tons with a good trainer. Good trainers also are always learning.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Chip, 

Have you ever posted saying that you HAVE listed your dog on Craig's list? 

If you haven't than you were not at the point of frustration and inability to do it on your own that this person is at. 

If you go back to the post where I suggested the OP find a good trainer, you will see that I asked his location so that some of the people here might be able to help him find a good one. I even said that ANY trainer could slap a prong on the dog and get some obedience going. What he needs is a GOOD TRAINER, one who will teach him about timing, body language and the whole nine yards.

This puppy can be a rock star. But the owner needs someone hands-on to observe, diagnose, and treat the human/canine interaction. And the owner has to give it the ole college try. 

THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS. A prong collar or e-collar will not magically turn bad puppy into good puppy overnight. Neither will sit on the dog or the place command, neither of which is how I train. I have heard of both. My trainer teaches the place command regularly, and I have no use for it so I just ignore it. I might use the sit on the dog if I brought in a dog and had issues with it. Might. I've brought in dogs that were between 6 and 3 years, and a few had issues, and I worked through them without using those techniques without any issues. It is NOT the only way to train, and it DOES NOT make a trainer good or bad if they are familiar with them. 

There are a ton of training methods out there. I prefer a trainer that goes with NONE of them. Dogs are different, handlers are different. Trainers have to assess both and use a variety of tools to get the dog and the handler in front of him from point B to point A. Any trainer that has a go to method is not going to be efficient. They will have success when the dogs and handlers that method is right for come through their door. Other owners will struggle and take longer to get where they want to be.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

selzer said:


> Chip,
> 
> Have you ever posted saying that you HAVE listed your dog on Craig's list?
> 
> ...


Hmm yeah yet again, as I am want to say ... "people that know what they are doing etc etc." It's not about "us" it's about this owner and they are frustrated because there dog is biting the crap out of a family member and they do not know to do?? 

Oh and take better aim at the "opposition" I'm pretty sure you won't find me in the "Prong or E-Collar" crowd, not that is anything wrong with that.  

If someone else has something other that a "PC" that can stop the "crap right freaking now" as I am want to say ... step on up! :grin2:

OP did not post *"I need to find a trainer" *because ...." They posted this dog is outa here because ....

So those who "chose' to post do so because they think they have viable solutions. I offer my advise because in "my" view ... I tend to think that if they can stop the puppy from biting the crap out of others ... "Right Freaking Now" then maybe, possibly, perhaps they may want to keep the puppy??? Maybe there "Phone Book" is broken and they can't "Find a Trainer" which is not what they asked. If they don't want a solution then they can disregard my advise. 

And "Place and Sit on the Dog" yes the shelters are full of dogs that have been trained with "Place and Sit on the Dog" over flowing infact with clam well behaved dogs just sitting there peacefully waiting to be adopted. "Training Calmness" into a unruly out of control dog ... yeah don't want people doing that. :wink2: 

Oh and if that was an actual serious question "Cragislist" ... the answer is "NO!" 

Not my style for me taking on a dog is a "lifetime commitment or obligation??" Whatever the case my be true "Rage Syndrome" dogs are extremely rare, by and large most "issues" are caused by poor management. And as Jeff is want to say on occasion to people with "issues" *"Your Dog is Not that Special." * 

KISS works in life and works with dogs.


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