# 2012 WAO Tryouts- Jumpers Opening



## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Very cool, difficult, fun opening in the WAO Jumpers course tryouts this year. See the amazing Tory Self do it here: 





Of course I just had to try this out! It was way more difficult than I thought it would be. Took about ten attempts to get it right. In my defense, even though I've asked Pimg to work with a plate of treats beside her, not often have I asked her to work when I throw the tug away from here in sequencing. Either way- this was a LOT of fun. Way harder than it looks. No time for editing this, did it on my lunch break. Just a quick, raw shoot of us giving it a shot. This is after about eight attempts off camera.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I love Tori and how she handles her dog. I used to hardly ever see her do blind crosses but she seems to do them a lot more lately. She makes it look so effortless though when she does it. That is a difficult sequence there and I'm not sure how I would do it but I may set it up and give it a try. Great job with Pimg doing that sequence. She really seems to love agility.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Oh man- I knew it was spelled with an "i" -not sure why I put a y. I also REALLY like how she runs her dog. She's incredibly smart. Very straight forward, no frills handler, but she knows when to throw in a little fancy move to make things work out (such as the blind in this case). I'm not sure how I'd handle it without a blind. I guess I'd have to front cross jump 2 into a post turn at jump 3. But that gives me 720 degrees of rotation!! 

I suppose you could handle it from the take off side of #2 with some fancy footwork. There are options, but the blind/post turn seem the cleanest to me.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

Do you have a link to that course map? My first thought would be to post turn on the other side and then fc or rc the next jump. Definately a sequence where you may have to try different things to see what works best for your dog.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I don't have a course map. I could see the post turn at #2 (which is just a send to backside) with a rear cross on the flat into the back of jump #3. However, with a fast dog I think you'd have to be confident that the dog would read the rear cross as a full jump wrap rather than a basic turn... And _that_ might be pretty difficult.

What I wouldn't mind trying is a lead out pivot/push from the take off side of two, layering jump #3 and then doing some kind of fancy thing from the take off side of three. Perhaps a revise flick (I think that's what it's called) or an ass pass- or something to that nature. However, I know with Pimg I'd have to be VERY clear about it otherwise she'd take jump #3 in the wrong direction. One major advantage of the jump wrap on the landing side of jump #3 is that your body blocks a wrong entry. Handling jump #3 from the take off side may be very prone to a bad entry there... I suppose it's all about knowing your dog. I don't have a lot of confidence that I could reasonably handle this from the take off side of #3 without getting a back jump there.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Tori and Rev are a fantastic team-it's really fun watching them run! Not so fun when she jumps her up at 26" in Steeplechase and sets the time at 25 seconds and I have no chance of qualifying then LOL  But seriously, she has had some amazing opportunities for such a young handler!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Holy crap I'd probably twist my ankles trying that *without* my dog! It's like ballet!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Yep! I *love* it!! What people are calling "international style" agility now (which is this really tight, really turny kind of stuff) is so much fun! It's crazy hard, but the control and steering that you're able to demonstrate (or that you hope to demonstrate lol!!) is super fun and rewarding. Of course, it will be _very_ difficult for GSDs to ever be competitive with the BCs with such tight, turning courses though. 



Liesje said:


> Holy crap I'd probably twist my ankles trying that *without* my dog! It's like ballet!


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

I don't really like the international style courses. Of course it's fun to watch a super fast BC run them, but they offer international standard and jumpers courses at some USDAA shows now and unless the dog can really handle that kind of course, with speed, it's kind of painful to watch-the course feels too disjointed. Needless to say, I don't ever sign up for those classes! I once saw an akita run the international jumpers course at a trial, he was clean, but took probably 60 seconds to get through it, lol.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I've never had an opportunity to run a full international course timed. I'd love to give it a shot and really wonder what kind of times we could get. I saw the 2013 USA World Team tryout info was posted and it lists the minimum speed requirements (among other things)


A minimum of 8 standard class scores of 100 and a minimum rate of speed of:
3.70 yards per second (YPS) – small dogs

3.80 yards per second (YPS) – medium dogs

4.00 yards per second (YPS) – large dogs
 
A minimum of 8 JWW class scores of 100 and a minimum rate of speed of:
4.90 yards per second (YPS) – small dogs

5.00 yards per second (YPS) – medium dogs

5.40 yards per second (YPS) – large dogs
 
It will take a very fast GSD to be running international style agility at _at least_ 5.4 yps!!


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

In my agility class we almost always practice the international type of courses. I usually end up running it differently than most others because I have a big dog. My teacher is very good about showing me alternatives for Jerry Lee as oppose to someone who has a little dog. I don't particularly like international style courses but it does help me learn how to handle Jerry Lee in other situations. I would never want to compete in anything that does international courses but that is just my personal preference.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

If you have USDAA near you, go try it out! Any level can enter those classes so you can just go once and have fun with it. I think 5.4yps for that kind of course is pretty much impossible for a GSD, based on body structure if nothing else. (Just checked, and one of my fastest USDAA jumpers times was 5.4 seconds and that course had more flow than an international course-the BC that won it was at almost 6yps.)


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

kbella999 said:


> In my agility class we almost always practice the international type of courses.


Really? How fun! What, in your opinion, qualifies a course as international style? I'd think there would be at least two or three jump wraps, countless off courses, and probably an impossible weave entry... :rofl:


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Sorry- I know your question is directed at Belinda, but one thing I notice about international style courses is stupid backside jumps!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I did register Pimg with the USDAA, so technically I could try it out. But I doubt that entry level courses would be very difficult. Would you agree? Haha- I want to jump in with the hardest course! :hammer::rofl:



I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> one thing I notice about international style courses is stupid backside jumps!


which I love!


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Here's a completely different take on the intro:


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

There are no entry level international courses. There is just one standard and one jumpers course-but anyone can enter them. They are not available at all trials. But, YES, I think you should check it out. USDAA in general is the closest venue to international style- you would LOVE IT! The competition is so much fun and many world team handlers compete in it. It's fun to compete against people like Tori or Stuart Mah, and whoever is in your area 

Oops, I was wrong- I was thinking of the rules for the tournament classes-but for the masters challenge classes, as they call them, you have to have your masters title in that class- sorry


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> There are no entry level international courses.


Are they called "international classes"? Do you see any in this trial?
USDAA - News & Events: Event Calendar

I see your update above about the master's classes. Shucks.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO said:


> If you have USDAA near you, go try it out! Any level can enter those classes so you can just go once and have fun with it. I think 5.4yps for that kind of course is pretty much impossible for a GSD, based on body structure if nothing else. (Just checked, and one of my fastest USDAA jumpers times was 5.4 seconds and that course had more flow than an international course-the BC that won it was at almost 6yps.)


One club is going to start USDAA in my area. I may try it out for fun but probably won't continue in that path. Do you do AKC also? I was wondering how they compare. I know the jump heights are higher which is a big concern for me.



wildo said:


> Really? How fun! What, in your opinion, qualifies a course as international style? I'd think there would be at least two or three jump wraps, countless off courses, and probably an impossible weave entry... :rofl:


Mostly back side jumps and super tight courses. I'll see if I can get a couple course maps of the courses we do in class and send them to you.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah that is what I was thinking of trying. Just seems like with a big dog, this way might be better but hard to tell without walking the course for real. 


wildo said:


> Here's a completely different take on the intro:
> 2013 WAO Tryout Jumpers - YouTube


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

USDAA courses are really fun and my dogs seem to do fine with only the 2 extra inches (jumping 26" rather than the normal 24" in AKC). 

If you've not been jumping your measured height in AKC (for instance jumping 20" though measure for 24"), you also can jump lower in USDAA (22" ??) . 

For me NADAC is actually the 'hardest' for us and that because they really are meant for speed (time can be an issue on the courses) and the hoops are something I don't have so can't practice normally. T


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

I know it is only 2" more but I don't want to push my luck with Jerry Lee's elbows. I love Nadac but that is because I started with Nadac and really just started doing AKC. I think both present challenges. AKC seems to have more handling challenges while Nadac has faster times, discriminations and a lot more distance to cover. I enjoy both AKC and Nadac and plan to continue doing both. Wouldn't mind trying a USDAA course though. I'm always hearing about Steeplechase but I don't know what it is. The club that is going to start the USDAA trial said they would have a "Starters" trial first since no one in our area probably competes in USDAA.


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

kbella999 said:


> One club is going to start USDAA in my area. I may try it out for fun but probably won't continue in that path. Do you do AKC also? I was wondering how they compare. I know the jump heights are higher which is a big concern for me.



I started in NADAC, did three AKC trials and switched to USDAA almost three years ago. I used to love NADAC, but started hating it after they added the hoops. The way they make their times for courses is based on obstacles (instead of measuring the course) and we could barely make time in Elite weavers-my last NADAC trial was a day where my dog ran as fast as he could and didn't make time.
I found AKC to be a bit boring- wait ALL day for two runs, maybe three. 
I tried out USDAA and loved it! It's a perfect mix of NADAC's speed (but not quite as tight on time) and games and AKC's challenging courses. USDAA courses consist of a lot of turns and off courses, but you have to run fast (at least in the master's classes) to make time. 

There is the standard class, jumpers, but also gamblers (pick up points then do a distance challenge), snooker (pick up points in a strategic way, then do a closing sequence, must get top 15% of class to get a SuperQ-need three of those to title), and pairs-a relay course that you pair with another team to each to half the course.

Then there's the tournament classes. Grand Prix is like a standard course but tighter on time. DAM is a tournament where you're on a team with two other dogs. Steeplechase is a really fast and fun course where the top three dogs in each height class set the time and you have to run as fast as possibly to qualify- everyone watches and cheers- it's a lot of fun!

If you are worried about jump height- you can enter in performance and jump 22". I think you should check it out!!


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## KristiM (Oct 18, 2011)

One if the reasons I love NADAC is that if my handling is there and Odin is on, we can be competitive. The way the courses are laid out means that if Odin is running hard, we are capable as a team to beat the smaller, faster dogs (border collies.) I think that with the tight courses and 26" jumps, regardless of my handling being perfect and Odin moving as fast as physically possible we will never come close to those border collies I have have yet to trial in AAC (which I believe is similar to USDAA) but just knowing what a gsd is physically capable of compared to a bc, I don't think it's possible. (I also think that AAC may be tighter than USDAA, I have been told that the obstacles are most often only 15 feet apart.) 

That being said it is still super fun! I can't wait til out first AAC trial in less than 2 weeks

~I also HATE the games in NADAC! I find them very BORING. Go figure. 


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

USDAA really is fun and I know a ton of people that switch off all the time during the year between those trials and AKC. Now that AKC has Time2Beat and FAST, there are up to 4 runs a day so no longer can people complain and say you are at an AKC trial the entire day for just 2 runs. 

Interesting thing (one interesting thing  ) about USDAA is people who competed there used to go on and one about how AKC people were all snobs and wouldn't allow mixed breeds and rescues and that was so horrible. But now the AKC DOES allow mixed breeds and almost every trial I attend welcomes any and all dogs. *WHILE* the fact is when you go to a USDAA you'd think there would be tons of mixed breeds, right? Wrong. Crazy overload of the herding breeds like Border Collies.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

kbella999 said:


> That is a difficult sequence there and I'm not sure how I would do it but I may set it up and give it a try.


Did you happen to set it up and try? How'd it go?


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

MaggieRoseLee said:


> USDAA really is fun and I know a ton of people that switch off all the time during the year between those trials and AKC. Now that AKC has Time2Beat and FAST, there are up to 4 runs a day so no longer can people complain and say you are at an AKC trial the entire day for just 2 runs.
> 
> Interesting thing (one interesting thing  ) about USDAA is people who competed there used to go on and one about how AKC people were all snobs and wouldn't allow mixed breeds and rescues and that was so horrible. But now the AKC DOES allow mixed breeds and almost every trial I attend welcomes any and all dogs. *WHILE* the fact is when you go to a USDAA you'd think there would be tons of mixed breeds, right? Wrong. Crazy overload of the herding breeds like Border Collies.


Ah yes, I forgot to mention, as MRL did, that AKC has improved a lot. I haven't seen any trials by me that offer all four classes in one day, but even to have three is better than two. Also, my AKC friends have told me that the way the trials here have been organized lately, they do the levels back to back, so they'll do for example Excellent standard and Excellent JWW, then Open std, Open JWW, etc. This makes for a much more efficient, productive day! 
I actually did want to try AKC again after we get our ADCh, but I might just retire my dog after that. He has arthritis in his back  I may just go to AKC and jump at 20", but I'll have to see how he's doing then.

So true about USDAA- the majority of dogs are BCs! Sometimes it's fun being the only GSD at a trial (which I usually am, lol) but other times it would be nice to compare our time against similar dogs.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

wildo said:


> Did you happen to set it up and try? How'd it go?


No, but our class was cancelled tonight so I will try it out when I go home. In our class we are taught a command to send the dogs to the back side of the jump. I'm still working on this with Jerry Lee but this will be good practice for us.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

wildo said:


> Did you happen to set it up and try? How'd it go?


I tried the sequence last night. We were able to do the post turn on the 1st jump perfectly. The post turn on the 2nd jump took us several attempts to get it right. I felt a little more dizzy doing it the with the post turn on the 2nd jump too. In class when we've had 2 back side jumps in a row, there has always been space between the two jumps. Without the space sure does put a whole new spin on it. Here is my video if you want to watch.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Nice Belinda!! And remember, in the real sequence, those jumps are wing jumps which would make it a bit easier. Also, I'm not sure if you use blind crosses or not, but that's another option.


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## kbella999 (Jan 6, 2012)

wildo said:


> Nice Belinda!! And remember, in the real sequence, those jumps are wing jumps which would make it a bit easier. Also, I'm not sure if you use blind crosses or not, but that's another option.


No, I try to avoid blind crosses. Sometimes I do them by accident though .


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

Hey Willy, going back to our discussion on USDAA's Master's Challenge courses, from USDAA:



> Based upon the interest in and success of the IFCS Biathlon offered in 2012, USDAA is expanding the opportunity for competitors to participate. To make this happen, the Board has approved modification of the Masters Challenge rules whereby any dog - regardless of their competition level - may enter Masters Challenge classes at both local and regional events. A qualifying score in just one of those classes is one way in which a dog becomes eligible for entry in the Handlers Challenge Biathlon at Cynosport.


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