# My gsd bit me



## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

I really need some advice on how to stop my dog directing his aggression towards me or anything that is within close range of his mouth when he can't get to the stray dogs. Or how to stop his aggression towards them altogether. 

My dog is aggressive only towards to the stray dogs in our living area, he's fine with the other 2 little ones he meets occasionally that belong to people. They've ran towards and he did not react. He is also usually civilised at the vet's except for this one particular dog that he started growling at the moment it came out from the room. But we'd been at the clinic countless time and I'm pretty sure it was only against this one particular dog. 

Anyway, back to the stray dogs, usually I distract him and walk away from them and he follows with an occasional low growl. But most of the times, he could see much further and better than me, esp in the dark, so he would immediately react when he spots one from far; growling and barking and attempting to charge towards it. Since he is always on a leash except in an enclosed area, he can't get to it/them and would direct his anger/aggression towards me and bite anything within range, which is my bag, the hanging part of the leash, my pants and mostly my leg!! 

All this and I'm still in one piece and I can normally get him away but today, we were kind of "trapped" in the tennis court. We just entered in there and I hadn't even gotten him off-leash (thankfully!) and he spotted this black stray loitering outside and wouldn't stop barking at it. The stray wasn't even reacting, just staring. But my dog wouldn't stop going crazy!! He tore the lower portion of my pants and subsequently bit my leg and thigh!! 

Does anyone else have this kind of experience and what do you suggest I do to rid him of this behaviour. 

I don't know of any trainer here (we're in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia) that I can work with and am in kind of a tricky living environment as well. I read on another thread about being reactive to other dogs and someone suggested "Control Unleashed" and I'd immediately ordered a copy of the book and DVDs as well. 

But for now, besides putting him in a muzzle to protect myself, is there any other solution?? Muzzle isn't so ideal bcos a friend of mine who works in the management of the our living quarters advised that others might complain that the dog is vicious and will bite and hence, muzzled. I know, the purpose of the muzzle could be to protect them as well... but, people's mentality is just different here! >.<

Anyway, sorry for long post.


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## MiaMoo (Apr 6, 2013)

In my opinion, putting a muzzle on your dog and having people think he might be dangerous is a much better option than having a vicious dog that is able to bite you and other people.

Don't jeopardize the safety of you, others and your dog because you are worried how it might look.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you on how to handle this and there are plenty of experienced people here that will help you when they come online.

My only comment is that because he is on a lead and the other stray dogs are not, being on the lead is making him panic to point where he zones out and thinks he has to get free of the lead to protect himself and you. There are many dogs that are very reactive 'on lead' when confronted with another dog that is off lead. I wouldn't be happy using a muzzle when on your walks in public, only because if his behaviour is going to get him attacked by a pack of stray dogs, then he can't defend himself. Using a muzzle at home is fine, so long as he can pant and drink.

From the little bit of information I have read, stray dogs are bit different to our domestic dogs, they have established their order in the pack and will quickly deal with unstable dogs (usually killing them or banishing them from the pack).

Good luck and I hope you are able to find a solution to your poor dog so that he can find some piece in his life.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

MiaMoo said:


> In my opinion, putting a muzzle on your dog and having people think he might be dangerous is a much better option than having a vicious dog that is able to bite you and other people.
> 
> Don't jeopardize the safety of you, others and your dog because you are worried how it might look.


I'm not worried about how it might look or what others think, but if someone complains to the management, they can tell me to get rid of him. :help:


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

Harry and Lola said:


> I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you on how to handle this and there are plenty of experienced people here that will help you when they come online.
> 
> My only comment is that because he is on a lead and the other stray dogs are not, being on the lead is making him panic to point where he zones out and thinks he has to get free of the lead to protect himself and you. There are many dogs that are very reactive 'on lead' when confronted with another dog that is off lead. I wouldn't be happy using a muzzle when on your walks in public, only because if his behaviour is going to get him attacked by a pack of stray dogs, then he can't defend himself. Using a muzzle at home is fine, so long as he can pant and drink.
> 
> ...


I had the same feeling with the muzzle thing. I agree he could be panicking bcos he is on a lead, but if he wasn't and went chasing after them, its another disaster. Besides, I can't really walk him off-leash inside the compound anyway. 

There are different packs here, some would run away when he starts barking, but just 2 nights ago, I spotted 2 strays before Magick did, they were playing by themselves and I immediately made a casual U-turn to avoid a confrontation. And my dog walked with me, didn't bark or growl but was aware of them. However, these 2 decided to give chase and Magick started reacting as well... I picked up some stones and threw at them and bought some time to make our escape unharmed even though my dog did tug at my pants.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

Would carrying a ball on a rope work as a distraction for your dog's frustration? It would give him something acceptable to bite in these situations.

Another thought would be to carry rewards with you (beyond the ball on a rope) and train him to an alternative behavior which you reward. That is have him heel or sit or look at you when there are strays and immediately reward this.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

middleofnowhere said:


> Would carrying a ball on a rope work as a distraction for your dog's frustration? It would give him something acceptable to bite in these situations.
> 
> Another thought would be to carry rewards with you (beyond the ball on a rope) and train him to an alternative behavior which you reward. That is have him heel or sit or look at you when there are strays and immediately reward this.


Actually we were in the tennis court about to play with ball and rope. But the moment he saw the stray, he lost everything. 

I had him sit and stay for a couple of seconds, but the moment the other dog moved, he went crazy again. 

I'm trying to teach him focus at the moment, but kept he didn't seem very motivated by his treat. It is his favourite treat (freeze dried black angus beef) but still didn't work very well. He seems to prioritize some thing over others...

Still googling for more ideas


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I think you should find a trainer. 

David Winners


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think a trainer is in order as well...Sounds like displaced aggression..He gets so worked up/frustration mounts, has to release it somewhere and your the closest target.

I had a male aussie that did this, fortunately, it wasn't me that he would displace on, unfortunately it would be one of my other dogs whomever, was in close proximity.

Jag for example, would work himself into a barking frenzy IF say, a strange car pulled into my yard, he'd be outside , (Fenced yard), and go nail one of the other dogs , even if they weren't close, he'd chase them down or try to anyhow. 

Since he was my biggest failure at curbing his barking, I put a bark collar on him. Worked for him, non existent barking, didn't work himself up, no displaced aggression because he wasn't 'zoning' out. 

Certainly not saying it would work for your situation, it worked for mine.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Midnite my dog that was reactive to other dogs redirected on me one time shortly after I brought him home. I had a huge bruise on my leg he stopped immediately when I said ouch. I knew that could never happen again. He couldn't be in classes, so I was pretty much on my own. After a while is met with a trainer and he got her pretty good , worse then me. More work was needed. It's a lot if training and redirection. He is now fine with other dogs, but it was a hard road. It can be done, but it takes time.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

llombardo said:


> Midnite my dog that was reactive to other dogs redirected on me one time shortly after I brought him home. I had a huge bruise on my leg he stopped immediately when I said ouch. I knew that could never happen again. He couldn't be in classes, so I was pretty much on my own. After a while is met with a trainer and he got her pretty good , worse then me. More work was needed. It's a lot if training and redirection. He is now fine with other dogs, but it was a hard road. It can be done, but it takes time.


Any idea what sort of training was done and how was it carried out? 

I still cant find a trainer


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

This is a tricky situation. If he's redirecting to you, you really have no choice but to muzzle him until he's able to handle the strays better - which is impossible to say when that will be. Can you spread a rumor that he's eating rocks and this is why he's wearing one? I'd hate for you to have him taken away, but if anyone sees him chomping on your leg, I'm pretty sure that would be worse, and they'd surely complain then.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

I don't really have any advice, it just sounds so frustrating to have so many stray dogs around. It is so rare to see a stray in my town. Your dog sounds so frightened, I hope there is something you can do to get him to understand you are in control and you will protect him. Are the strays aggressive?


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## utsavized (Feb 25, 2013)

My 9-month-old pup suddenly started getting dog-reactive about a month ago too. Although we don't have any stray dogs, we do see a lot of dogs and most of the small ones are off-leash without any manners. It made things worse because Titan isn't neutered, so almost every dog would bark at him, or the off-leash ones would run to him.

So far, we have figured routes that no one uses, times that no one walks their dogs, and places that no one goes to, and except for a few incidents, have been pretty successful at keeping things at bay. A prong collar greatly helped with the corrections, although Titan never had displaced aggression towards me. 
I even have a muzzle just in case, but so far have not needed it. I am okay making U-turns, crossing the streets and can handle/redirect him if the other dog isn't within striking distance. One exception was when an off-leash St. Bernard suddenly came out of nowhere to jump on Titan -- I simply stood between the two; luckily the Bernard had a good recall and the owner got him to retract.

All this is temporary though, while we have been searching for the right trainer. We cannot simply avoid dogs all our life, that would be like having a ticking time bomb. And the only way to go is to get a professional trainer. We even contemplated sending him back to his breeders to get trained but it was too far and boarding without us, we decided, would not do much good as we need the training as well. We have finally found a great trainer (recommended by our breeder) ... he is an hour away, but has an amazing reputation and experience, so pretty excited.

Keep looking, and you will find a trainer, or at least someone who is well experienced with GSDs. I can post updates from my first training session here so give you a rough idea, but you would still need to consult a trainer to work with your dog.

Good luck!


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

The most common mistake the owner does - he/she counts on his dog, and doesn't try to see his own mistakes. Were you silent? And standing still? Doing absolutely nothing, just holding him? Probably, you screamed at him, shouted or tried to command in excited voice. It works on the dog highly encouraging if he wants to attack. If you tried to slash or beat him - it was even more encouraging, pain increses agression, the dog doesn't notice where it comes from. The owner pretty much often could be bitten by his own dog during a dog fight, if he tries to stop it and beats his dog. The difference here - that your dog was too ready for the fight which didn't take place. Stay as calm as you can in such situations, talk to your dog in a gentle voice, and, most important - pull him away, but slowly, walk with a moderate pace. The reason for his reaction is adrenaline rush due to his sexual potential, it is a hormonal issue, if he is gentle on other occasions. He had smelled a male in the area he minds his own, his territorial instinct told him to destroy that dog. I strongly advise you to neuter him. But sterilization wouldn't fully change his behaviour, it will only soften his reactions. You still need a trainer.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I would muzzle the dog. Certainly a trainer is your best bet, but until you can find one, put a muzzle on the dog. The cool thing about muzzles is, they're removable. I mean, if you find yourself in a four-dog situation, and you cannot possible protect your dog from all for them, and they are biting him, you can slip that muzzle off of him with one quick-release movement. It just isn't a good excuse for not using the tool you don't want to use. 

The dog does misplace his aggression. He's is totally out of hand, and you're getting hurt. You need to muzzle him when he is out so you can exercise him, and then you need to put together a plan of action to work through this insane/reactive/dangerous crap. 

That being said, I have a handful of females in heat right now, and everyone is in because it is darn cold here, which means, they have to be let out regularly, one by one (or they will need stitches). What this looks like, is me releasing a dog, and instead of rushing outside or going over to the water bucket for a drink, like most of them do, there are a couple that rush over to another bitch and go, AR AR AR AR AR. Uhg! 

With Gretta, she loves to do this to Ninja who will spin her crate AR AR AR AR ARing back. Gretta wants to play. Ninja wants to kill her. If I yell loud enough Gretta will come off of that and go out the door. Dolly, on the other hand, rushes over to Heidi -- same expressions, but totally different. Calling her will not stop it, and so I grab her tail and pull her away, until I can direct her where I want her to go. I can totally see her wheeling toward me and getting skin. So far it hasn't happened, but what an idiot. This bitch is a CGC. She doesn't act that way in public. It's hormones, it's inner pack stuff. There is just no way to use a muzzle, because I am not going to crate her muzzled. But I also don't want any misdirected aggression. 

The nice thing is, Heidi gets out of her crate, walks right past Dolly's to get to the door and doesn't even give her a look. 

If Dolly gets me doing this, I wouldn't call it people-aggression, just an accident, really. Your dog too. It will be an accident, but an accident you can foresee and therefore prevent. I can foresee it happening, I just have to work out how to prevent it, like, I can put a leash on her and not let her go over to the other bitch and not let her engage in that stupid fence/cage fighting. Take her out on leash, let her run out there, leash her before coming back in, and then avoid the stupid Tasmanian Devil scene. You can put a muzzle on your dog when you take it for a walk, and avoid the misdirected aggression.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

If this dog was at my house, I would use a slip leash or DD collar and can of air / pet distractor / air horn and get the dog to settle, then work on leash pressure, then DS / CC training. 

I'm not comfortable trying to talk someone through this on the internet, and I think a professional is in order.

If you can't locate one, I would do as much research as possible on counter conditioning. The Lou Castle e-collar approach may be something to consider as well.


David Winners


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I am American, but I spent part of my childhood in Bahrain, so I have some understanding of the cultural differences...and, hence, I can totally see the negative repercussions you face by responsibly muzzling your dog. I wouldn't do it, personally, under your circumstances. And, as I recall, from your previous posts (and I apologize if I'm mistaken, I only visit the forum sporadically), you don't live in a private compound, but you have shared common space, no? That's puts you in a tougher situation 

Have you considered carrying your dog across the bridge to Bahrain for training? IDK whether the club still exists, but we trained a champion SchH3 dog there. One we imported from Germany to Bahrain in 1985. That was a looong time ago, but maybe?! The bridge didn't exist back then... It would be easier now, I expect 

Until you can examine that option, you are going to have to fine tune your OB inside your private space. Take your dog off of bowl feeding TODAY and demand OB for every bite of kibble. Down! Reward randomly.... Sit! Reward randomly... Repeat, repeat, repeat. 

Do you play attention games? Focus? Look at Me? If not, you need to. You can message me and I will step you through what my trainer taught me. When your dog is 100% focused on YOU the strays won't matter.

And one final thought... think and think about whether there is ANY way you might physically exhaust your dog before you go to the tennis courts. I own a dog reactive GSD. He is not aggressive to *all* dogs, but I can't predict....so, before I let him off leash, I run him for two miles on leash at 15-18 miles per hour next to my golf cart. After that, he is easy breezy chicken peasy around ANY dog. I mean, it was expensive, and I couldn't really afford it, but that $2400 golf cart has paid for itself ten times over since I made the purchase eight months ago. Worth every cent.

Keep us posted! And message me if you like. Here for you


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

Gretchen said:


> I don't really have any advice, it just sounds so frustrating to have so many stray dogs around. It is so rare to see a stray in my town. Your dog sounds so frightened, I hope there is something you can do to get him to understand you are in control and you will protect him. Are the strays aggressive?


I am really not sure as to whether he was frightened or territorial or protective. The first time we were chased by a pack of strays and I just urged him to walk faster, he didn't bark and just followed till we got home. 

The second time, we walked calmly past a pack that was just resting outside the tennis court and all was fine till one of the dogs decided to follow us. I did not react or turn back and just crossed the road, Magick followed. Then this other dog started to growl, Magick lost it; turned around and lunged forward to attack it. But he was on a leash and couldn't reach the other dog. The pack ran away for a second and then gathered again but did not chase. Since this incident, he'd try to kill every single stray loitering in the compound... :crazy:

There are different packs of strays here, most would simply run away when Magick barks but some will come forward. Just the other night, 2 came chasing after us & growling even though we made a U-turn before approaching. 

I'm not sure if they would really attack but I wasn't going to take that chance.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> The most common mistake the owner does - he/she counts on his dog, and doesn't try to see his own mistakes. Were you silent? And standing still? Doing absolutely nothing, just holding him? Probably, you screamed at him, shouted or tried to command in excited voice. It works on the dog highly encouraging if he wants to attack. If you tried to slash or beat him - it was even more encouraging, pain increses agression, the dog doesn't notice where it comes from. The owner pretty much often could be bitten by his own dog during a dog fight, if he tries to stop it and beats his dog. The difference here - that your dog was too ready for the fight which didn't take place. Stay as calm as you can in such situations, talk to your dog in a gentle voice, and, most important - pull him away, but slowly, walk with a moderate pace. The reason for his reaction is adrenaline rush due to his sexual potential, it is a hormonal issue, if he is gentle on other occasions. He had smelled a male in the area he minds his own, his territorial instinct told him to destroy that dog. I strongly advise you to neuter him. But sterilization wouldn't fully change his behaviour, it will only soften his reactions. You still need a trainer.


No, i wasn't silent. Before he went crazy, I was brushing his hair in the tennis court and his ears suddenly went up so I looked back. A lady was on her way to work, we see her almost daily. So I told him its okay, keep still and let me brush. But he got up and was agitated. I continued talking to him, its ok, she's going to work, just keep still ok.. Then he ran towards the fence. That was when I saw the dog. I tried to keep calm by saying his name and telling him to sit. And he did. 

But when the dog moved closer to the fence, he lost it. I did not beat him. But he was still on the leash and hence, when he tried to lunge forward, he got pulled back by the prong collar and got more agitated. I didn't even react when he bit me, maybe I said OUCH! lol.. I tried to walk away from that side of the court but there was really no where else to go, and the stray wouldn't leave! Grrr...


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

selzer said:


> I would muzzle the dog. Certainly a trainer is your best bet, but until you can find one, put a muzzle on the dog. The cool thing about muzzles is, they're removable. I mean, if you find yourself in a four-dog situation, and you cannot possible protect your dog from all for them, and they are biting him, you can slip that muzzle off of him with one quick-release movement. It just isn't a good excuse for not using the tool you don't want to use.


I'm afraid to use the muzzle for 2 reasons, one for him not being able to protect himself and I might not be able to remove it in time if cornered by 4 dogs, which happened before but thankfully I had my water gun at that time and made our escape swiftly. Because he would be frantically jumping about trying to attack and I imagine myself to be looking for the clip to remove the muzzle, hanging on to the leash, and trying to fend off attacking dogs?? The second reason as stated earlier, was that I'm afraid of anyone seeing him muzzled and making a complain to the management that I have a dog that bites, thats why he's muzzled. That could cause more problem for me as they would make me remove him. 

The 3rd concern would be in the tennis court, I bring him there for exercise, to play ball and chase. Now I'm afraid to go back there and if the strays appear again and he's not muzzled, there are a few concerns, I might get hurt again and there is a tiny hole in the fence that if he was unleashed and determined to get to the stray, he could really squeeze past it >.<


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

JackandMattie said:


> I am American, but I spent part of my childhood in Bahrain, so I have some understanding of the cultural differences...and, hence, I can totally see the negative repercussions you face by responsibly muzzling your dog. I wouldn't do it, personally, under your circumstances. And, as I recall, from your previous posts (and I apologize if I'm mistaken, I only visit the forum sporadically), you don't live in a private compound, but you have shared common space, no? That's puts you in a tougher situation
> 
> Have you considered carrying your dog across the bridge to Bahrain for training? IDK whether the club still exists, but we trained a champion SchH3 dog there. One we imported from Germany to Bahrain in 1985. That was a looong time ago, but maybe?! The bridge didn't exist back then... It would be easier now, I expect
> 
> ...


Thanks JackandMattie. Yes, we have shared common space. It is a big big private compound, but it is staff housing, owned by the hospital I work for. Everything here is guarded by the administrative policies and procedures (APP). I'm in shared accommodation, 2 in a flat. Going by the books, I'm not allowed to have pets but the management has allowed me for now cos my flatmate doesn't mind. Any complains or mishap and they can tell me to remove him. 

I don't think its feasible to get him to Bahrain for training as the a one-way car trip would take apprx 4 hours, which mean I can only do so in the weekend. But then there is the paperwork, the guards, the language barrier, and unscrupulous official who might try to steal my dog. I've had local friends telling me that they had tried to getting supplements through customs and officers telling them its not allowed, meanwhile they kept it for themselves. Friend brought 3 bottles of whey protein powder for example, guard told him they'll keep 2 for testing!! The guard at our compound, one time tried telling in arabic, that my dog is not allowed inside anymore, and that I should put him in his car. He was telling me in a stern manner, so I reacted angrily and told him in my broken arabic that its allowed!! Then his colleague tried to diffuse the situation by making as a joke. But i know it wasn't a joke. He was trying to see if he can scare me into it. 

I don't know how handfeeding works, but I did it last night anyway after reading somewhere online. With every handful, I told him to "look at me". We did it for about 5 minutes and I let him take a break by just feeding him with my hand. Then repeated again. Hope I'm doing it right. I don't want him to loathe feeding time, which he already started whining about it previously as I was teaching him to roll-over during feeding time. Lol.. 

I'm trying to teach him focus by saying "look at me" when we're out, using treats but he seems to be distracted by every single leaf that moves. 

There is no where else to go. We live in apartments, once down and its shared common space between residents and stray dogs & cats. I actually bring him to the tennis courts to exhaust him.The only choice would be to buy a treadmill and make him run at home!

Today I didn't even dare go out in the dark (5am), so we played tug-of-war at home, fetch, catching, focus training, till daylight (6.30am) before I let him out to eliminate... Then rush off to work by 7.30am! 

Will be sending you PM soon.


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## Midnight12 (Jan 6, 2012)

No expert here, but I spray mine with water from a spray bottle and it snaps her out of it, I get her looking back at me. She has never tried to bite me though, just would not stop barking and pulling at some dogs. Also when your dog is reacting, I would not be saying it's okay to calm him because you are saying that it is ok to bark.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

Midnight12 said:


> No expert here, but I spray mine with water from a spray bottle and it snaps her out of it, I get her looking back at me. She has never tried to bite me though, just would not stop barking and pulling at some dogs. Also when your dog is reacting, I would not be saying it's okay to calm him because you are saying that it is ok to bark.


good idea spraying with water, i did with the water gun later.. but no effect. In the end, I shoved the gun in his mouth for him to bite! He was just chomping down on it HARD while staring at the dog! geez! 

I didn't say "its okay" when he was barking, i said it when his ears were up and the lady was passing the fence. When he started barking, I was telling him to sit, which he did for a couple of seconds, till the other dog moved. Then he started going crazy again.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

David Winners said:


> If this dog was at my house, I would use a slip leash or DD collar and can of air / pet distractor / air horn and get the dog to settle, then work on leash pressure, then DS / CC training.
> 
> I'm not comfortable trying to talk someone through this on the internet, and I think a professional is in order.
> 
> ...


Thanks, you remind me of the pet distractor spray that I bought some time back. Need to go search for it when I get home. 

What do you mean work on leash pressure? And what is DS/CC training? 

I'm still very new to owning a gsd. I used to have a toy poodle  I didn't even have to train him... He was doing everything on command on his own. :laugh:

I still didn't find a trainer, googled online. Nothing. Asked around, nothing. One pet shop told me they'll have a trainer coming at the end of this month but I'm not betting any dollar on that. For one reason, its Saudi Arabia. We tend to get empty promises a lot here.  

I'll also check on Lou e-collar training.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

lindadrusilla said:


> Thanks, you remind me of the pet distractor spray that I bought some time back. Need to go search for it when I get home.
> 
> What do you mean work on leash pressure? And what is DS/CC training?
> 
> ...


I'll send you some links when I get to my computer. 

DS/CC is desensitization / counter conditioning. 

David Winners


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

David Winners said:


> I'll send you some links when I get to my computer.
> 
> DS/CC is desensitization / counter conditioning.
> 
> David Winners


Thanks


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

I do not think you should take this on yourself. There are a lot of subtle things going on with an aggressive dog that can lead the training in a different direction. Timing is critical. Reading the dog is critical. Being calm and not reacting to the situation in a stressful manner, even in your mind, is critical. You can make the dogs reactivity worse with ill timed or harsh corrections.

I urge you to find a trainer.

If you are determined to do this yourself, I would suggest you learn as much as possible about whatever training method you choose to employ. I also recommend you shoot some video of the dog reacting and your training steps, and post it here for possible help in understanding what is going on with the dog, and help with training steps and timing.

The only reason I'm even posting this is because of your situation. Anyone in the states reading this should manage the dog with a muzzle and situational controls until they can find a trainer.


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## TinkerinWstuff (Dec 21, 2013)

Are you near Khobar Towers? Maybe you can get in touch with an experienced GSD handling MP? I'm assuming we still have folks stationed there and I know when I was there, we were bored as ****.

It really is a different world out there when you step foot outside the borders of the USA. Good Luck!


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

David Winners said:


> I do not think you should take this on yourself. There are a lot of subtle things going on with an aggressive dog that can lead the training in a different direction. Timing is critical. Reading the dog is critical. Being calm and not reacting to the situation in a stressful manner, even in your mind, is critical. You can make the dogs reactivity worse with ill timed or harsh corrections.
> 
> I urge you to find a trainer.
> 
> ...


I dont think you get it or believe me. I really hope i could find a reliable trainer. If and when i find one and if its a male, i'll then have to face another problem of inviting him into the compound to work with the dog in real-life situation. 

So i think meanwhile i have to just make do with dealing with it myself as much as possible. 

I agree staying calm in that situation is nearly impossible. But i just have to put it in my head and try. If i was in singapore, its required by the law anyway for a gsd to be muzzled in public areas..


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

TinkerinWstuff said:


> Are you near Khobar Towers? Maybe you can get in touch with an experienced GSD handling MP? I'm assuming we still have folks stationed there and I know when I was there, we were bored as ****.
> 
> It really is a different world out there when you step foot outside the borders of the USA. Good Luck!



Where is Khobar Towers? I'm assuming in Al khobar? 

I dont know of any Khobar Towers here in Riyadh. I'm far from Al khobar, 3 hours drive. Its almost to Bahrain. 

I asked my bf who is a saudi and i asked the taxi driver and they dont know either..


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## Blanketback (Apr 27, 2012)

My question might sound stupid, but only because I have no clue at all what it's like to live there: can you carry a small whip or walking stick to shoo the strays away from you? IME, if you can force other dogs to respect your own dog's personal space, it's easier to keep yours calm. It's a small step, but it might be significant.


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## TinkerinWstuff (Dec 21, 2013)

lindadrusilla said:


> Where is Khobar Towers? I'm assuming in Al khobar?
> 
> I dont know of any Khobar Towers here in Riyadh. I'm far from Al khobar, 3 hours drive. Its almost to Bahrain.
> 
> I asked my bf who is a saudi and i asked the taxi driver and they dont know either..


Yes, it's almost to Bahrain. But eliminates your border crossing issues.

Google Khobar Towers. Details on the location and the bombing will come up. Side bar; I lived in that building less than a year before it was attacked. I remember being allowed to go into the city and there being heavily armed police patrolling the mall from the third floor balcony, camels tied down in the backs of compact Toyota pickups, and Cadillacs abandoned in sand dunes along the highway. I totally hear what you're saying with regards to concerns about public perception from the community.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

Blanketback said:


> My question might sound stupid, but only because I have no clue at all what it's like to live there: can you carry a small whip or walking stick to shoo the strays away from you? IME, if you can force other dogs to respect your own dog's personal space, it's easier to keep yours calm. It's a small step, but it might be significant.


I do carry a stick at times, or a water gun. End up they just get bitten by my dog instead. 

Tonight I put him on a muzzle before heading for our last walk at about 11pm (i was late due to volleyball practice), only bcos few people are around to see him in it. Nearly had another encounter with the same stray from tennis courts. But I spotted it first, my heart was pumping really fast but i tried to steady my hold on the leash & led him to another path, gradually increased my pace & headed to our building without mishap! I kept my tone happy and normal talking to him all the time. Phew! Mini heart attack..


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Well it sounds like your between a rock and a hard place you muzzle the dog and he can't protect himself, if he's coming up the leash that's bad news!

Out of my realm of experience! Only thing I can tell you Captain Obvious here, sorry, your dog is telling you he has an issue your job is to figure out what that issue is.


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## lindadrusilla (Dec 29, 2013)

Chip18 said:


> Well it sounds like your between a rock and a hard place you muzzle the dog and he can't protect himself, if he's coming up the leash that's bad news!
> 
> Out of my realm of experience! Only thing I can tell you Captain Obvious here, sorry, your dog is telling you he has an issue your job is to figure out what that issue is.


More like between a rock & a crazy place! Lol

Anyway, i'm still trying to figure out what is/are his issue(s); besides stray dogs, he also dislikes cyclists and children or any stranger that appear suddenly out of nowhere, but to a lesser extent. He might growl but doesnt always chase. 

Meanwhile, i'm just trying everything - teaching focus, maintaining my own composure & keeping calm. 

I had also gotten in touch with a professional dog trainer/ behavior specialist in Georgia that a fellow forum user here had kindly referred me to. She has agreed to help, and will advise me through skype and emails. 

I hope we can really work something out!

We still hadn't returned to the tennis courts, and I dont dare to bring him jogging either.. It seems there is an increase in the number of stray dogs again. Saw 2 packs in a barking match last night.


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## Chip18 (Jan 11, 2014)

Leerburg is a good site, pretty sure he addresses your issue somewhere? Ask on here if you see something you think might work.

Your job is to protect you dog it should be a partnership. Right now your dog is protecting himself and you. And he see's you getting in the way? 

Not a dog for unskilled to slap a prong collar on! Don't know if that crossed your mind or not so that's just a shot across the bow. 

Search on here for "Two week shutdown" just start over and try and build anew relationship with him. Then loose leash training after that, just a couple of ideas th you can do and shouldn't be harmful!


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

lindadrusilla said:


> Thanks JackandMattie. Yes, we have shared common space. It is a big big private compound, but it is staff housing, owned by the hospital I work for. Everything here is guarded by the administrative policies and procedures (APP). I'm in shared accommodation, 2 in a flat. Going by the books, I'm not allowed to have pets but the management has allowed me for now cos my flatmate doesn't mind. Any complains or mishap and they can tell me to remove him.
> 
> I don't think its feasible to get him to Bahrain for training as the a one-way car trip would take apprx 4 hours, which mean I can only do so in the weekend. But then there is the paperwork, the guards, the language barrier, and unscrupulous official who might try to steal my dog. I've had local friends telling me that they had tried to getting supplements through customs and officers telling them its not allowed, meanwhile they kept it for themselves. Friend brought 3 bottles of whey protein powder for example, guard told him they'll keep 2 for testing!! The guard at our compound, one time tried telling in arabic, that my dog is not allowed inside anymore, and that I should put him in his car. He was telling me in a stern manner, so I reacted angrily and told him in my broken arabic that its allowed!! Then his colleague tried to diffuse the situation by making as a joke. But i know it wasn't a joke. He was trying to see if he can scare me into it.
> 
> ...






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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

Well, I messed up my reply and it all looks like a quote, but I think you can probably sort through it. Aargh. 

Gonna message my friend, Indupreet, in Dubai, now, and see whether she has a lead for you. 

She might be the only woman in Dubai who owns three distinct breeds, feeds them all on a raw diet, and has them all impeccably trained . Idk, but I do know she has a huge heart, because she was the only girl in eighth grade who was crazy ready to befriend the scraredy-cat little US southerner with an unintelligible drawl way back when . And unlike myself, who returned to the US for high school, she finished high school and uni in the Middle East. And she is highly social. I hope she can help you!


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

One thing I've noticed that has not been addressed in this thread... Is your dog's pedigree. That can give us some good idea of whether you are actually facing aggression, or merely reaction. I mean, a reactive bite hurts just as much, but requires a completely different approach. 

Share with us, how did you acquire this dog? Not so we can judge, because I've been on this forum for a while, and though some do judge, the majority will take the dog's heritage as a fact and give great advice for your particular animal. Too often, dogs get labelled as aggressive, when in fact they are only fearful/reactive and the best approach is 180 degrees separate when that's the fact. 


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