# Shadow update and opinions/advice welcome



## Sabis mom

Health check and rabies jab yesterday. Punk did great as only she can.
My concerns were weakness and maybe pain in back end, heart as always, vision and starting to see odd behaviors ie staring at the wall, intermittent confusion( getting lost in the bathroom).
Vet was impressed with her overall condition. Some lack of muscle tone but not bad considering her age and coming off an injury. Definite aversion to having her hips or thighs checked so there is pain there but given her history with vets they opted to save it for another day.
Eyes looked good, vet commented that a bit of old dog blurry but no real issues. Heart is a bit erratic but sounds strong, lungs sounded clear. Mammary all looked good no lumps or bumps. Lump on her neck is definitely just a cyst. Skin, ears and coat all good. Stomach was normal. She's doing good for an old girl.
They gave her benadryl before vax to avoid any histamine response and I took the night off to stay with her. Said to continue benadryl for 48 hours and watch for any other symptoms.
They want her back in a week for Lepto shot, a week after that for distemper. 
They will try again to get blood at those appointments. They don't push fearful dogs. It's their policy.
Quote for her spay is 900 or so, but that includes the blood work and meds.
I am opposed to further vaccines. I do not think they are needed. 
They also want her on trazadone for future appointments, just to make sure she is fine and gave me probiotics to add to her food and see if that helps with her sore belly after meals.
So, thoughts? Advice?


----------



## banzai555

$900 seems like a lot for a spay, even converted to US dollars. I think I paid $275 USD for Willow's spay. Maybe more because of age-related risks? 

Also just curious, why are you having her spayed now? Honestly asking because I'm curious, not to criticize.


----------



## Sabis mom

banzai555 said:


> $900 seems like a lot for a spay, even converted to US dollars. I think I paid $275 USD for Willow's spay. Maybe more because of age-related risks?
> 
> Also just curious, why are you having her spayed now? Honestly asking because I'm curious, not to criticize.


The quote says 418 for the spay, plus 85 for a mature fee. It is more involved in any fully matured dog. The blood work is 165 plus 32 and the taxes are 100.

As to why now, I wanted her done at age 2 but was unable to locate a vet that would consent to putting her under with an undiagnosed heart issue. They could not diagnose her because she was terrified and crappy handling by poorly trained vets kept making it worse.
Her heats have always been erratic and problematic. For a few years she was in heat every 4 months or so which must have been **** on her body, then she had a few split heats, then she went almost 10 months without a heat. 
At her age pyometra is a real concern and saving her life should she get it would be traumatic and expensive, with no guarantee.


----------



## jarn

I think that the heart sounds strong is a positive if you do the spay. 

Xerxes has a heart murmur that our vet tells us will require an EKG or ultrasound or something if we ever want to do his teeth. And I'm not sure that's necessary - I personally would be comfortable proceeding without. He's an incredibly active boy, quite the little athlete - so maybe I'm kidding myself.

I would be worried about pyometra too. Any idea on the likelihood of an intact female her age developing it?


----------



## Bearshandler

She sounds like she’s doing good to me. I’m not big on vaccines beyond the puppy series. With your situation, it’s weighing the likelihood of pyometra against the risk of heart complications. I’d have to study up on it again before I made a decision. It’s not something I’ve had to worry about with all males these days.


----------



## Sabis mom

jarn said:


> I think that the heart sounds strong is a positive if you do the spay.
> 
> Xerxes has a heart murmur that our vet tells us will require an EKG or ultrasound or something if we ever want to do his teeth. And I'm not sure that's necessary - I personally would be comfortable proceeding without. He's an incredibly active boy, quite the little athlete - so maybe I'm kidding myself.
> 
> I would be worried about pyometra too. Any idea on the likelihood of an intact female her age developing it?


As far as I know, shepherds are not a real high risk breed for pyo but she is still a 10 year old that has never been bred so it's a significant risk.
I think at this point, if I do there is risk and if I don't there is risk. Surgical complications or a life threatening infection.


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> As far as I know, shepherds are not a real high risk breed for pyo but she is still a 10 year old that has never been bred so it's a significant risk.
> I think at this point, if I do there is risk and if I don't there is risk. Surgical complications or a life threatening infection.


I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I think it comes down to your personal philosophy. Most females I know of are fixed by this point, but she’s already made it this far.


----------



## jarn

I agree with Bearshandler, I think the right answer is the one you're comfortable with.


----------



## Sabis mom

I'm not really comfortable with either option, lol.


----------



## jarn

Sabis mom said:


> I'm not really comfortable with either option, lol.


A damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation I guess.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

In my opinion- no vaccinations- they can do titers and leave her alone.
And no spay. I actually had a 9y.o going through emergency spay due to pyometra. She did fine and lived till 14+y.o. 
And then I had another 9 y.o that went through a surgery after a bloat with her spleen removed and she had some heart issues so I didn’t want her to go through another surgery because she got something like pyometra.. it sure looked like it...and I was able to fix her and she lived till 11+ years and even went through another heat cycle with no problems.


----------



## Kazel

Honestly it's certainly your decision but I wouldn't spay if it was my choice. I'm scared of pyo risk but at that point and with other concerning behaviors and such well it wouldn't be on the top of my list. Of course I can imagine feeling horrible if something did happen due to pyo and it was emergency surgery to save her. But with mental and physical quality of life concerns and I know this probably sounds terrible, euthing for pyo at an old age before other health concerns got too bad would not be the worst way to go. But the mental impact on you may be strong and that could be a reason to go through with it. There is a high risk with surgery being an older dog with heart issues. Plenty of random old shelter dogs are altered all the time though and they seem to do just fine. Plenty of dogs also stay intact until they die with no health issues.


----------



## Heartandsoul

It sounds like she got a really thorough going over with a good report. Just a couple things I can think of. Ask/insist for a titer for the distemper before deciding to give it. They have to take blood anyways so no biggie except that it’s a little bit more expensive than the vaccine. For the lepto, I would ask or find out how many lepto cases for your area and also ask your vet how many cases he has dealt with over the past year. Take that ans and figure in how much woods walking, puddle\pond drinking she does and your comfort zone with giving it and come up with your answer as to should or shouldnt she have it. 

With the Trazadone, I dug up some info about it in this article. Pre-Hospital Sedation Options for Aggressive and Anxious Dogs • MSPCA-Angell.

They talk about the “chill” protocol which I thought just included all but trazadone. I have used on my boy minus the ace (my request) and the trazadone wasn’t part of it. I wanted you to read the concerns about the heart and look into that further and double check with the vet.

You’ve always done right by her so far so this won’t be anything different.


----------



## Dunkirk

Another factor to consider is if Shadow has any risks associated with anesthesia. 






AKC Canine Health Foundation







www.akcchf.org




.


----------



## Sabis mom

Wow! You guys are awesome.
@Kazel just a couple of weeks ago I was having a discussion about Shadow and I said that at her age, and with her background, I have to think that it is doubtful an emergency would go in her favor. I love her to bits, but she is 10 and she's had a rough go of it. At some point I need to consider her well being and quality of life. Had that leg injury not healed I'm afraid I would have faced a terrible choice. And I feel the same way about pyometra. That's putting an old dog through a traumatic surgery. But she suffers a bit through her heats and that seems really unfair. I'm really torn about it. I don't really know what is best here.
I know someone is going to say she's ONLY 10! 
@Heartandsoul I am so very grateful that you found that article! I need to have a serious chat with the vet about that and find out if it is safe or not. 
The distemper I'm kind of iffy about especially because they only do the 3 way with parvo and influenza as well, the lepto I am leaning towards. There is wildlife everywhere here. We can't walk around the block without something. Bears, foxes, raccoons, deer all saunter around here like they own the place. I am surrounded by all manner of rodents. They have rats here! We walk a lot and are in the woods often. 
Titers would probably be a bust, she has not been vaccinated since she was 1. I am not arbitrarily against vaccines, I just think they get over done. 
@Dunkirk more great info! I need to ask some further questions. I know Sabi's vet was a bloody genius and light years ahead of his time. He was rather fond of upping the sedation and lowering the anesthesia, and he was the one who told me to never let anyone put my dogs under without an IV catheter in. He said once they start to get into trouble it's to late. We almost lost my Dane during her spay so I'm not at all blind to the risk here and I have a ton of serious thinking to do. I am very hesitant to disrupt the apple cart, she's been holding pretty steady and I need to decide if the gains will outweigh the risks.


----------



## WNGD

Prayers up for Shadow. You'll make all the right decisions


----------



## Muskeg

Most likely, she'll live to be 12 to 13, if you're lucky. I know there are exceptions- and hope for your sake she is one- but that's the average age for shepherds- really anything after 10 is bonus years - love on 'em all you can (I know you do). 

I had a female with pyo at just 8, she was bred once, not a breed a risk (malinois) but she got it. I caught it very early, she was spayed and is fine (aside from the coat changes which I hate, but she's healthy and that's more important by far).

I'm a bit on the fence with the spay, even so. 

If she's doing well with no signs of anything that will go terminal within a year, I think I would spay, now. Pyo is a huge risk in older females, I've seen studies showing at least 25% risk in most breeds- some breeds are higher. These studies were done in Europe with many unspayed females. 

And this is especially true if the heats are hard on her- even in a healthy girl, heat cycles are trying times.There are a ton of hormonal changes and the body basically revs up for pregnancy whether bred or not. Ovarian cysts are a given. With time they often turn into pyo.

Yes, I'd spay now. You don't want to be in an emergency situation with her, and have to put her down just for pyo. That would be heartbreaking, I'm sure. 

If you have a good vet, they'll lead you the right way. I don't know her anesthesia risks, in full, so make sure to get those prior to making this decision.


----------



## Muskeg

I have trazadone on hand for my big boy. It just calms down some of the edge. It's not a major sedative. It's commonly used for post-surgical patients or dogs that need to rest to recover. I wouldn't worry about using it. It may not work at the vet, but it's a common sedative.


----------



## LuvShepherds

The only sedative that worked on my anxious rescue so he could see a vet or be groomed, was Ace. He went from a biting mess to a cuddler, even with strangers, on Ace. He never had a bad reaction. They don’t use it anymore. My current male got Trazadone when he had surgery. I used it for a follow up office visit and it did nothing at all for him, even at the highest possible safe dose.


----------



## dogfaeries

It’s really hard to know what to do! That pyo threat is why I spayed Carly when she was 6. Who knows if it was even necessary. But she also was a really healthy girl when she had the surgery, so I didn’t have that worry.


----------



## Magwart

All surgery always has _some _anesthesia risk. There's also _some _risk to not doing the surgery!

With that difficult heat history, I would probably spay her, given her relatively good overall health. I've had several "old ladies" come into the rescue with full-blown pyo that our vet team caught in time, and it's honestly kind of scary -- and likely painful for the dog. One of those old ladies that I fostered nearly died from her pyo infection because it had already spread by the time I got her. There was organ adhesion inside her abdominal cavity (sticking together from the infection), so the vet had to actually peel organs off of the abdominal wall and put them back into place. It was a long, difficult, scary surgery, and a very tough recovery.

Since I like fostering old dogs, I've spayed many of them who were in way worse shape than your girl, and they all came through well. I'd much rather them go into surgery healthy and strong than with an active infection! If you spay, then they can do good hip and spine xrays while she's asleep, and they can get a good look anything else she maybe doesn't like being messed with (teeth, etc.).

I think the need for other vax really depends on your area. If you have a lot of lepto where you are, then you vax for lepto. OTOH, if the clinic never sees canine cases of lepto, then you don't. My area has tons of lepto, with many dogs presenting local clinics with lepto-induced kidney failure. For us, it's a no-brainer to do the two-shot series of the 4-way lepto vaccine (but on my own dogs, I do it 3 weeks apart from other vax as it takes 2-3 weeks for a dog to mount an immune response, so I want to let that response mount before laying on another vax).

Some of what you describe with behavior sounds to me like a dog that's losing her vision and is confused by that loss of perception. I've seen the "getting lost in the bathroom" type of behavior regularly with visually impared dogs (e.g., when PRA is causing progressive vision loss). I tend to not rely on generalist vets for eyes, as eyes are SO complicated -- it actually takes specialty tools to do a good eye exam (with dilation). You might try watching her in low-light situations, and see if she does more bumping -- those low-light situations tend to give away the start of vision loss.

Trazedone is okay. It works for some and not for others. I've sometimes had to use it after delicate surgeries for dogs that needed to stay very calm and not injure themselves during recovery. I do NOT like Ace at all (it apparently partially paralyzes the ability to react and express their fear, so they may seem mellow, but they're still reacting in their head and experiencing MORE fear because they can't express it --they look calm, but are not at all on the inside) -- shelters used a lot of it.

Nutramax also has a new calming supplement I'm hearing some good things about called Solliquin. It might be worth looking into.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Some good stuff to have handy for emergencies. They have a distributor in USA, as far as I remember in SC or NC.









AN065 Pyometra Infection and/or fibroid growths. Stump Pyometra and Uterine Fibroids.


Urgent fast attention for all species. Pyometra Infection and/or fibroid growths. Infection of pus and/or bleeding of the uterus. Also can use as a preventative "prophylaxis"of Stump Pyometra and Uterine Fibroids. Herbal Antibiotic for INFECTION. Draw out all pus within the body. The support...




holisticanimalremedies.com


----------



## Sabis mom

I guess if I go ahead with the spay and lose her to complications I know I tried. If I do nothing and lose her to pyo, then I could have saved her and failed.
That is sort of where I am today.
Of course she could fool us all and live to be 16 with no issues! Lol.
No reaction to the rabies shot, so I would guess that first one was a dud vaccine or her immune system was so depleted she couldn't handle it.
I am going to chat with the vet on Monday. I think I should go ahead with the Lepto but skip the distemper/parvo/influenza. 
No clinic charge for the Lepto,just the cost of the vaccine, if done next week. But is that too close to the rabies? 
So trazadone should be safe? Even if there is a heart issue?
@Magwart any thoughts on that? @Muskeg have you seen any issues?


----------



## Sabis mom

Lexie’s mom said:


> Some good stuff to have handy for emergencies. They have a distributor in USA, as far as I remember in SC or NC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AN065 Pyometra Infection and/or fibroid growths. Stump Pyometra and Uterine Fibroids.
> 
> 
> Urgent fast attention for all species. Pyometra Infection and/or fibroid growths. Infection of pus and/or bleeding of the uterus. Also can use as a preventative "prophylaxis"of Stump Pyometra and Uterine Fibroids. Herbal Antibiotic for INFECTION. Draw out all pus within the body. The support...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> holisticanimalremedies.com


I appreciate the info. However, other then in some case where I had no access to a vet I would never try and treat something as potentially fatal as pyo at home. I don't think anyone should.


----------



## Sabis mom

Well. The Lepto vaccine did not happen. She has dropped another kilo or so. And today was running a slightly elevated temp and a bit dehydrated.
In the last six months her weight has slowly but steadily declined. Now on a dog her size 4-5kgs is a lot. I like her a bit thin but I can feel all her ribs and her spine. She is energetic, alert and full of herself, so I don't know what to think.
Vet wants to see her in a month, unless something changes for the worse.
Blood work is all normal.

Something else came to light. I need to do more parvo research. For whatever reason this area is losing as many old dogs as pups, or more. I need to figure out if there is a different strain going on or what the difference is. Parvo is a puppy virus. So why is it attacking otherwise healthy senior dogs here?


----------



## EgansMom

Sabis mom said:


> I guess if I go ahead with the spay and lose her to complications I know I tried. If I do nothing and lose her to pyo, then I could have saved her and failed.
> That is sort of where I am today.
> Of course she could fool us all and live to be 16 with no issues! Lol.
> No reaction to the rabies shot, so I would guess that first one was a dud vaccine or her immune system was so depleted she couldn't handle it.
> I am going to chat with the vet on Monday. I think I should go ahead with the Lepto but skip the distemper/parvo/influenza.
> No clinic charge for the Lepto,just the cost of the vaccine, if done next week. But is that too close to the rabies?
> So trazadone should be safe? Even if there is a heart issue?
> @Magwart any thoughts on that? @Muskeg have you seen any issues?


re:trazadone . My boy at 10yrs old handled 200mg of Traz for anxiety just fine prior to vet visits. I was surprised at the high dose at first (since 100mg knocks me on my butt for sleep) but he said dogs metabolize it different. For my boy 200mg just calmed him down. BUT he didn't have heart issues so I can't comment on that. Generally though trazadone is very safe and well tolerated.

I think Shadow may surprise everyone. It's those tiny rescues that have a strong will to live. I took a tiny sickly abandoned kitten maybe 3 wks who the vet didn't expect to live. But he meowed and meowed and wouldn't give up so neither did I. Much to everyone's amazement he lived 23 yrs !!!


----------



## Sabis mom

She did ok yesterday in spite of a blood draw and temp check. Vet said she was not happy but remained well behaved. So I think our plan is just a wait and see approach with regards to the sedation for visits.


----------



## Sabis mom

So. While I explore raw options, the plan is to get Punk on a puppy food mixed with her kibble. 
The weight loss has to stop and I have no issue with doing half kibble and half raw she has no more weight to lose at this point and needs calories. 
I picked up some Performatrin canned puppy food and will mix it with her kibble.
In her case the issue is that 2 cups a day of her food would do fine at maintains but some days, most days, she eats only one. Sometimes none. She likes her kibble, she's just a crappy eater. I mixed a spoonful of the canned food in and she gobbles it up. Of course. So between getting the kibble into her and the extra calories from the puppy food hopefully we can gain back some weight. The vet likes her at 63lbs, I like 58. She is currently 54lbs and it shows. 
Anything less and I will be very unhappy. Lean is fine. I can feel all her ribs though, and her spine. That's skinny, not lean.
When me were doing 20+kms a day 54 was perfect, but she can't go that far anymore, so she has lost muscle.


----------



## EgansMom

Would she try a ground raw blend ?
Don't know where about you are but two I know are
Big Country Raw
Barker's Brunch
Some companies will deliver. Some brands you can just purchase at the pet store
Also raw green tripe is something you can get from raw food companies. Highly nutritious and great for digestion and stinky so they tend to eat it even if they don't feel much like eating !


----------



## Sabis mom

I am exploring her options for raw, but for the moment she needs calories. Raw may cause more weight loss initially and she has no weight to lose. 
I have goosinggus right down the highway and have already reached out.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

__





Holistic Dog - Satinballs Satin Balls


Advice on how to help your canine companion with the use of natural healing methods, herbs, etc.



www.holisticdog.org


----------



## middleofnowhere

Maybe this has already been said but what about titers instead of vaccines?


----------



## Sabis mom

middleofnowhere said:


> Maybe this has already been said but what about titers instead of vaccines?


She has not been vaccinated since she was a pup so it's very unlikely she has any immunity.
At this point though no vaccines can be given until we resolve this weight issue and get a few pounds on her.


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> She has not been vaccinated since she was a pup so it's very unlikely she has any immunity.
> At this point though no vaccines can be given until we resolve this weight issue and get a few pounds on her.


I’ve never vaccinated a dog past the puppy ones. I’ve never dealt with those diseases in an adult dog either. I looked at the parvo thing after you mentioned it here, and what I found was the adult dogs being affected had compromised immune systems for various reasons. If that is the case with a dog, vaccines aren’t going to help anyway.


----------



## Sabis mom

I typically follow vaccine schedule to the one year booster and then not anymore. 
Rabies is mandatory here and although she qualifies for an exemption it will not protect her if there is an issue. 
In some parts of the province they are fine with quarantine but in this area they "shoot first, ask questions later".
Lepto is significant here and with her history the vaccine seemed the lesser evil.
I am still questioning the parvo, but three different clinics have given me numbers. Older, seemingly healthy dogs are not just catching the virus but dying from it in spite of intervention. That is completely new to me and definitely gives me pause since it is a hardy and highly contagious virus.


----------



## Sabis mom

It's been a few days and by mixing just a couple spoonfuls of puppy food with her kibble Shadow has cleaned her dish at each meal.
She is definitely more energetic. 
I still plan to add raw food to her diet but at this time I am unwilling to risk any further weight loss.
I will continue to up the amount of puppy food until we hit half a can per day.
Although I prefer her around 58lbs, I understand the reasoning behind adding a few more pounds. She is a 10 year old dog in iffy health. Giving her some insurance weight is a good precaution.
At this point the vet will consider neither surgery nor further vaccines until we show stable condition.
She is a good vet.


----------



## Sabis mom

Just to be clear, although her weight has always gone up and down and she is definitely a hard keeper this is a steady six month decline in weight and a serious drop in energy. She is slowly but surely starving herself. I know 5kgs sounds like not much but it's over 10lbs and on a dog that weighs around 60lbs that's a lot.
I need to find the reason behind it but more pressing is getting the weight back on her.


----------



## Magwart

Could she have Addison's? It's kind of a weird possibility, but anorexia/weight loss and sluggishness is typical of them. A $10 prescription for prednisone helps some of them (though there are also some more expensive injectable treatments that are sometimes needed too). I've seen cases of it in GSDs, so it's within the realm of the possible.





__





addisons-disease-in-dogs-overview | VCA Animal Hospital


Addison’s disease is caused by the decreased release of the hormones cortisol and aldosterone from the adrenal cortex. Most commonly caused by immune-mediated destruction, Addison’s disease can also be caused by trauma, infection, neoplasia or hyperadrenocorticism treatment. Clinical signs are...




vcahospitals.com


----------



## LuvShepherds

My older dog was fostered in a home with three puppies and an 8 year old GSD. The 8 year old and the one puppy who had parvo when it was pulled from shelter, died. My dog and another puppy did not get parvo and were adopted out. They had no idea why an older, vaccinated dog got parvo and died. They had some small dogs that did not get sick either.


----------



## Sabis mom

Magwart said:


> Could she have Addison's? It's kind of a weird possibility, but anorexia/weight loss and sluggishness is typical of them. A $10 prescription for prednisone helps some of them (though there are also some more expensive injectable treatments that are sometimes needed too). I've seen cases of it in GSDs, so it's within the realm of the possible.


It's funny, I was wondering about that yesterday. 
I will mention it to the vet.
I used to often see something we just refer to as "old dog wasting" in shelters and rescues. I've also seen it in horses. They just seem to fade away. No health issues, no problems, they just start losing condition.


----------



## Sabis mom

LuvShepherds said:


> My older dog was fostered in a home with three puppies and an 8 year old GSD. The 8 year old and the one puppy who had parvo when it was pulled from shelter, died. My dog and another puppy did not get parvo and were adopted out. They had no idea why an older, vaccinated dog got parvo and died. They had some small dogs that did not get sick either.


That is exactly what I am being told here! Healthy, adult dogs are dying from a virus that should not even make them symptomatic!


----------



## LuvShepherds

This was years ago. They didn’t know why, but thought maybe the immunity had worn off the older dog. They had to stop fostering, though, as it was in their yard.


----------



## Sabis mom

LuvShepherds said:


> This was years ago. They didn’t know why, but thought maybe the immunity had worn off the older dog. They had to stop fostering, though, as it was in their yard.


Sucks to lose a foster spot that way. But this is part of my concern. Parvo is really easy to spread and really tough to kill. If there is some strain that is attacking adult dogs that's a problem, and if it doesn't respond to treatment it's an even bigger problem.


----------



## Jenny720

Some times quick fluids under the skin will boost energy and appetite if it comes down to that. Anything that sticks to her ribs foods to help put on weight and she can handle well. It can be age or a underlying problem causing her to loose weight.


----------



## Sabis mom

Here we are 3 months later, still no vaccine. Shadow was to go in for a weigh in today, and some further testing but the vet had an emergency and rescheduled us. She isn't gaining weight, but she has stopped losing it. 
Back end pain has become weakness, she can barely get up the stairs to get outside without help. She fell trying to turn around in the kitchen the other day. 
As the saying goes, the heart is willing but the body is weak. She wants to play and bounce around but that isn't happening.


----------



## EgansMom

Will she eat yogurt ? I know she doesn't like broth but maybe you could mix some unflavored pedialite into yogurt for electrolytes ? I am not sure though if pedialite (lyte ?) is ok if she has renal problems.
Sabis mom...sending you and her the biggest cyber hug ever.


----------



## jarn

I'm sorry to hear about the weakness  That's the hardest thing when they age. I hope you can get into the vet tomorrow?


----------



## Sabis mom

EgansMom said:


> Will she eat yogurt ? I know she doesn't like broth but maybe you could mix some unflavored pedialite into yogurt for electrolytes ? I am not sure though if pedialite (lyte ?) is ok if she has renal problems.
> Sabis mom...sending you and her the biggest cyber hug ever.


She will not eat yogurt, she thought she liked it but she was wrong. Lol. 

Thanks for the hug though! I do feel better.



jarn said:


> I'm sorry to hear about the weakness  That's the hardest thing when they age. I hope you can get into the vet tomorrow?


We are booked for Thursday. I believe she is in some pain so we are going to see what we can give her. It got decidedly worse when the temp dropped last week.


----------



## ksotto333

****, I hate to hear that. It's just so hard to watch them. Hugs to you. Hoping for milder weather.


----------



## ksotto333

I meant dang, I guess.


----------



## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> I meant dang, I guess.


Lol. Censorship.


----------



## jarn

I hope you can figure out pain management. I believe it is supposed to warm up at the end of the week so hope that will give some respite.


----------



## Sabis mom

jarn said:


> I hope you can figure out pain management. I believe it is supposed to warm up at the end of the week so hope that will give some respite.


It was much warmer today then it has been and she did way better on the stairs which sort of supports my thoughts. I know when it gets cold I sure feel it, so I suspect that's the issue.
The good news is it's already February so we are halfway through the winter. I hope.


----------



## finn'smom

banzai555 said:


> $900 seems like a lot for a spay, even converted to US dollars. I think I paid $275 USD for Willow's spay. Maybe more because of age-related risks?


Welcome to veterinary costs in Canada, I had a 575 dollar quote for the neuter of an otherwise healthy 2yr old 135lbs mastiff.


----------



## finn'smom

I have zero advice to give, nor would I ever dare to imagine I was qualified... but from following and reading a lot of your posts on here I'm 100% certain that your girl has the bestest of advocates making decisions on her behalf.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> Lol. Censorship.


If the cold is bothering, would she wear a sweater or coat? I think mine would vote no, but you never know.


----------



## EgansMom

Heating blanket on low......may help her achy joints


----------



## David Winners

Punk is lucky to have you.

I agree that a hating pad or electric blanket could afford some comfort. An oil filled radiator could do the same.


----------



## Sabis mom

I will swing by Walmart after work and see about a heating pad. It's worth a shot. Meanwhile she is back on the magnesium and NEM as of a few days ago and seems a bit better.
Thank you all for the advice and support.
I love this girl so very much.


----------



## tim_s_adams

Best wishes for you both! Sorry to hear Shadow is having issues. It's never easy...


----------



## Heartandsoul

In case you weren’t able to get or find a heating pad or blanket, a quick diy heating pad: fill 3/4 with rice of a clean long sock then sew or tie it or make a sack from whatever material. Heat in a microwave till warm. Maybe 1-2 mins. Make sure not over hot. It will retain the warmth for around 10-20 mins. Or warm up a blanket via dryer or hair blower.

You probably have scatter rugs in the kitchen but if not or she needs more floor coverage, Home Depot has a great extremely light weight indoor/outdoor carpeting that they cut to size for free. Really cheap too. Came in 12 foot standard lengths x what ever width. 7.95 per foot on the width. I was able to cover just about my entire floor 12x5 for under 40.00.

I hated seeing the hind end weakness and that rug really helped my boy a lot.

I’m really glad she is feeling better.Sending you both good thoughts and prayers.


----------



## FarNorthGirl

not sure if your budget allows for it but back on track has dog products available and I found it really helped my horse when I had him. He had soreness over his neck and back from being an retired racehorse. 

my 7 year old GSD has a crate mate from Greenhawk ’s thermal heat line (all of their products are on sale for 50% off until 6 pm today) and she seems to actively seek it out. If I knew she wouldn’t complain with wearing a coat, she would have a mesh coat to wear more often.


----------



## Sabis mom

I ordered her one of the crate mats, that's a great price! Thanks for the tip. My credit card hates me. I also splurged and got her a selection of yummy treats. Some goats milk, freeze dried lamb, duck jerky and some ginger snaps (for dogs). This dog eats better then most people I know!
No luck with a heating pad or blanket, but I will see if I can order one. The dog is spending my new laptop, lol. But it's all good I know were the letters are supposed to be so I will just keep putting them back! At least the Y started working again!

Oh and Shadow has a coat, she loves it. She used to bite me when I took it off her!


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> Oh and Shadow has a coat, she loves it. She used to bite me when I took it off her!


Somehow shadow never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> Somehow shadow never ceases to amaze me.


She's weird, you can say it. Lol. 
Often the only thing I can do is stare at her in amazement! Not the good kind.


----------



## dogfaeries

Weird dogs are the best.


----------



## Sabis mom

dogfaeries said:


> Weird dogs are the best.


I agree! Love all those little quirks.


----------



## brittanyS

We should have a superlatives section of the forum where we nominate dogs for things like "Most Likely to Succeed" or "Most Athletic". Shadow could be nominated for "Most Character"


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> She's weird, you can say it. Lol.
> Often the only thing I can do is stare at her in amazement! Not the good kind.


I don't think I would enjoy hearing about her so much if she was a normal, run of the mill dog. I don't think you'll be able to handle it if you get a normal dog now. They at least have to learn to make you fetch from under the couch.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Looks like a bunch of people on this forum use with success: Longevity for Dogs
Personally I had great results using Dog Heiro https://www.amazon.com/Heiro-Dogs-N...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583932699201822&psc=1 
for my old Shar Pei, started around 12 years and she lived till 14.2 years.
She also had MSM, and Easter C for her joints.
For both Fozz and Lexie I currently use:


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> I don't think I would enjoy hearing about her so much if she was a normal, run of the mill dog. I don't think you'll be able to handle it if you get a normal dog now. They at least have to learn to make you fetch from under the couch.


I keep saying that one of my biggest fears is that I get a perfectly normal puppy, and it hates me!


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> I keep saying that one of my biggest fears is that I get a perfectly normal puppy, and it hates me!


I think the dog would love you being treated like shadow. I think it’s you that would find the dog boring.


----------



## Sabis mom

Shadow got chiropractic adjustment on her back today, vet agreed that there is a problem with her spine so we are going to adjust once a week for a few weeks and see if it helps. She was at 56lbs or so today so up a bit and not losing which is good. 
Going to use 1/2 dose of Metacam for a couple of weeks and see how she does.
That back leg is an issue. Basically it has healed well enough for her to walk but it doesn't stand up to much pressure.

Overall, she is in pain and that is no doubt affecting her appetite. If we can relieve the pain maybe she will eat more.


----------



## Sabis mom

Oh and her crate mat shipped already so should be here in a few days or so


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Is Acupuncture available?


----------



## Sabis mom

Lexie’s mom said:


> Is Acupuncture available?


No. If it was I would definitely try it. I have had amazing results with acupuncture on other dogs.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Me too, that’s why I’ve asked.


----------



## Sabis mom

I think she knows it's hers.








I cannot believe they got it here so fast! And it fits her crate perfectly!


----------



## FarNorthGirl

Greenhawk has been really fast with their shipping lately! Glad you got it in quickly 😀


----------



## Sabis mom

Chiro appointment today. This is number two. Vet said it went great and she thinks we can wait a month for another one unless something changes. Lost another bit of weight this week, that's not good. 
She gets half a cup of goats milk when she wakes up, 1 cup of kibble with 1/4 can of puppy food for breakfast, lots of treats and snacks through the day, another cup of kibble with puppy food for supper and more treats through the evening.
She has only skipped a couple of meals this week, so great in her world. She is active, alert and happy. Solid bowel movements. Other then skinny she is doing pretty good, so I don't understand this weight issue.


----------



## Heartandsoul

I’m glad you were able to get her in. My boy loved his sessions. I always booked one a few days before trial. MIT does limber them up and release stress pain.

Since you don’t have accupuncture where you are, I was thinking maybe accupressure may help. This looks like a good site for diy instructions. I like the dr credentials.









Acupressure for Canine Hip Dysplasia


By Beth Pelosa (RMSAAMs Animal Acupressure Course Instructor) Canine Hip Dysplasia is the most common cause of rear leg lameness in dogs. The highest incidence occurs in the larger breeds, such as …




rockymountainschool.wordpress.com





Hope she levels out and then goes on a weight increase upswing.


----------



## EgansMom

I was trying to think what Egan would eat when he was unwell. Raw green tripe - you can usually find it in the freezer section of pet food stores. Fantastic for digestion, full of vits and minerals, higher calories, stinky enough to be appealing when they don't feel well. Pop in micro for just a few seconds once thawed. Not enough to cook it but just take the chill out and make it even more appealing.


----------



## Sabis mom

This might be long, so bear with me. 
Yesterday morning I gave Punk about a cup of goat's milk, with her Metacam in it and a dog biscuit. Then I gave her breakfast about a half hour later. Breakfast is 1 cup of kibble with a quarter or a bit less can of puppy food. In this I mix her NEM and magnesium. She ate about half so I put a lid on it and put it in the fridge. 
She was normal and alert all day, bit feisty on our walks. I left at 2 to do some shopping . She was crated as always with a couple of dog biscuits. We went out for a pee when I got back around 4. She ran around in the yard a bit, ate some snow and seemed fine.
About 15 minutes later she puked, on my shoe mat. It looked like stomach bile, but seemed a bit dark and there was lots of it. No big deal. I cleaned it up, gave her a couple biscuits and a short while later the rest of her breakfast. She ignored the food for a bit but cleaned the dish and had her Dentastix. Normal spunky self all night. 
This morning we head out for a walk, she is her normal self. Bowel movement is normal, pee is a bit dark but looks normal. 
Then she puked. And it is dark brown half digested food. Not normal. Almost black. I can see bits of food and cookies in it.
Now I am worried.
She came inside, drank her milk, no Metacam, begged for a cookie and is sleeping. Offered her half breakfast, no supplements, which she refused. It is totally normal for her to be sleeping now. But I am concerned. Also normal for her to refuse breakfast. 
Not sure what I should do. I know the Metacam can cause stomach issues. And she is only on it to help with winter aches.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

I would put her on a bland diet of chicken and rice for a couple of days to settle the stomach and try natural supplements for her arthritis/joint issues instead of Metacam. I’ve posted the ones that I’ve used in the same thread above. I had great results and my dogs were 12 and 14y.o, the difference in mobility was like night and day it didn’t affect their appetites.
Didn’t have upset stomachs. I also supplemented with Milk Thistle.
Nice heating pad can relieve some pain too.


----------



## Sabis mom

She just puked again. It's brownish color like chocolate milk. 
Still barking at the TV though. And begging for treats.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> She just puked again. It's brownish color like chocolate milk.
> Still barking at the TV though. And begging for treats.


No suggestions, but moral support. Hoping you get this figured out soon. Hugs to you and a pat to Punk.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Why is my dog vomiting brown liquid?


Vomiting Brown Liquid in Dogs - Why it Occurs, What to Do, Prevention and Cost



wagwalking.com


----------



## jarn

I'm not sure what to suggest, just here offering my support. I hope Shadow's okay.


----------



## Sabis mom

She just puked again. Yellow bile. Pretty sad that I am happy about that, but it means she was not ok with something she ate. Boiling skinless chicken breast and some rice.


----------



## Sabis mom

I have left a message for her vet. No more Metacam and I will keep the bland diet for the weekend.


----------



## dogfaeries

Sabis mom said:


> I have left a message for her vet. No more Metacam and I will keep the bland diet for the weekend.


I think that’s a good idea. When Sage was sick and on Deramaxx, she started peeing blood, so we had to stop giving it. Different drug, but still an NSAID. They can really tear up a stomach unfortunately.


----------



## Sabis mom

dogfaeries said:


> I think that’s a good idea. When Sage was sick and on Deramaxx, she started peeing blood, so we had to stop giving it. Different drug, but still an NSAID. They can really tear up a stomach unfortunately.


Thank you, this is very comforting. Truly. I know some meds make me very nauseous.


----------



## Sunsilver

Yeah, my male was pooping small amounts of blood when on metacam. Had to drastically reduce the dose.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> Wow! You guys are awesome.
> @Kazel just a couple of weeks ago I was having a discussion about Shadow and I said that at her age, and with her background, I have to think that it is doubtful an emergency would go in her favor. I love her to bits, but she is 10 and she's had a rough go of it. At some point I need to consider her well being and quality of life. Had that leg injury not healed I'm afraid I would have faced a terrible choice. And I feel the same way about pyometra. That's putting an old dog through a traumatic surgery. But she suffers a bit through her heats and that seems really unfair. I'm really torn about it. I don't really know what is best here.
> I know someone is going to say she's ONLY 10!
> @Heartandsoul I am so very grateful that you found that article! I need to have a serious chat with the vet about that and find out if it is safe or not.
> The distemper I'm kind of iffy about especially because they only do the 3 way with parvo and influenza as well, the lepto I am leaning towards. There is wildlife everywhere here. We can't walk around the block without something. Bears, foxes, raccoons, deer all saunter around here like they own the place. I am surrounded by all manner of rodents. They have rats here! We walk a lot and are in the woods often.
> Titers would probably be a bust, she has not been vaccinated since she was 1. I am not arbitrarily against vaccines, I just think they get over done.
> @Dunkirk more great info! I need to ask some further questions. I know Sabi's vet was a bloody genius and light years ahead of his time. He was rather fond of upping the sedation and lowering the anesthesia, and he was the one who told me to never let anyone put my dogs under without an IV catheter in. He said once they start to get into trouble it's to late. We almost lost my Dane during her spay so I'm not at all blind to the risk here and I have a ton of serious thinking to do. I am very hesitant to disrupt the apple cart, she's been holding pretty steady and I need to decide if the gains will outweigh the risks.


Just a thought about titers, Gus’ lastcore
Vaccine was at 16 weeks. He’s going to be 9 this year and titres remain good. I would definitely consider timer testing before more vaccines are given. Lepto vaccine terrifies me, this is a very personal and controversial vaccine among dogs owners. 
I know you will do what is best for the both of you, whichever choices you make for her.


----------



## EgansMom

I concur with metacam irritating the stomach lining. There must be another pain med alternative that's not so hard on her tum ? Will the vet just talk to you on the phone since you were just in ?


----------



## Sabis mom

EgansMom said:


> I concur with metacam irritating the stomach lining. There must be another pain med alternative that's not so hard on her tum ? Will the vet just talk to you on the phone since you were just in ?


Her vet is closed for the weekend and will not be back until Tuesday. They are really great about not charging for stupid stuff. We will see how she does over the next couple of days.
She just wolfed down a few tablespoons of rice and chicken. I will wait an hour and give her a few more spoonfuls. If she keeps it down we will go from there.


----------



## Heartandsoul

The vet might suggest remidyl in its place but it also has the upset stomach/ulcer warnings. I did give my boy that on occasion but not often and found that he could take half the dose prescribed and it would alleviate the pain for a full day and a half. (This was for severe pano and then for the hip issues later on)

I think sometimes the standard dose for weight just isn’t the correct dose for an individual dog. 

It’s just some info for you. I agree no more of it for her. Keeping fingers crossed she’s done throwing up.


----------



## Sabis mom

About to serve her third few spoonfuls. It's staying down and she is clearly starving. Fingers crossed! She had me a bit worried this time.


----------



## Dunkirk

Nitro is on Neurontin (Gabapentin) for osteoarthritis, and tolerates it well.


----------



## David Winners

What is the source of her pain?

Sloppy, overcooked chicken and rice use my go-to for stomach upset. It's probably from the NSAID.

As Dunkirk mentioned, gabapentin is a great option with less side effects of the source if pain is nerve compression.

I take fairly high doses myself.


----------



## Sabis mom

@David Winners we aren't sure. Vet has done a couple of chiropractic adjustments on her spine because there is a definite issue there, but there is an old injury to her shoulder and her left front leg as well as the tendon in her back leg. She has been struggling to get around since the cold set in so we thought it might help if she did a few weeks on the Metacam. Sort of hoping if she felt better her appetite would improve.


----------



## David Winners

Sabis mom said:


> @David Winners we aren't sure. Vet has done a couple of chiropractic adjustments on her spine because there is a definite issue there, but there is an old injury to her shoulder and her left front leg as well as the tendon in her back leg. She has been struggling to get around since the cold set in so we thought it might help if she did a few weeks on the Metacam. Sort of hoping if she felt better her appetite would improve.


If it were my dog, I would try 300mg of gabapentin in the morning. No stomach bleeding risk. If that didn't work, I would switch to a different NSAID like carpofen (Rimadyl) to see if she handles that better.

External treatment is always better, so the heat pad, chiropractor, acupressure, maybe CBD could help.

I used FeedSentials, Shemp oil and Sunday Sundae with Fama with fantastic results.


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> If it were my dog, I would try 300mg of gabapentin in the morning. No stomach bleeding risk. If that didn't work, I would switch to a different NSAID like carpofen (Rimadyl) to see if she handles that better.
> 
> External treatment is always better, so the heat pad, chiropractor, acupressure, maybe CBD could help.
> 
> I used FeedSentials, Shemp oil and Sunday Sundae with Fama with fantastic results.


She will continue with the chirpractor monthly or more as needed, and I have a heating pad ordered. I will talk to her vet on Tuesday and see what she thinks but there will be no more Metacam I think. It's weird because she has taken it several times before.


----------



## Sabis mom

You know what makes me angry? Lol. Besides everything. I feel like I have been fighting to get this poor dog proper treatment all her life! I have been saying for years that there is something wrong with her spine. Finally someone listens to me and yup, there is a problem. So how long has my poor girl been walking around hurting?


----------



## Sabis mom

No puking! Gave her a sprinkle of kibble with her chicken and rice. 
Hoping this holds. One more bit of chicken and rice at noon then small meals of dry kibble if she seems ok. 
Wondering if I should try a bit of the goat's milk?


----------



## David Winners

I would stick with sloppy chicken and rice for a couple days before I introduced anything else. Give the gut a chance to heal a bit.

JMO


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> I would stick with sloppy chicken and rice for a couple days before I introduced anything else. Give the gut a chance to heal a bit.
> 
> JMO


I can do that. She is just really hungry, which is a nice change from fighting to get any food into her.
I will give her one more day anyway. 
It would be really nice to have not problems with her for a minute.


----------



## Sunsilver

Most adult animals don't have the enzymes needed to digest milk, so not a good thing to give them after puppyhood.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

There’s a big difference between goat and cow milk. Goat milk is actually good for digestion and helps fight inflammation. Lots of other benefits for dogs Goat's Milk for Dogs | What REALLY are the health benefits?


----------



## dogfaeries

I think once you feel like she’s not going to start throwing up again, I’d give her goats milk. Like I’ve said before, it was one of the few things Sage actually liked when she was ill. I was desperate to get some calories in her, and that worked.


----------



## Sunsilver

Lexie’s mom said:


> There’s a big difference between goat and cow milk. Goat milk is actually good for digestion and helps fight inflammation. Lots of other benefits for dogs Goat's Milk for Dogs | What REALLY are the health benefits?


That reads like an ad for goat's milk. Here's the SCIENTIFIC FACT behind milk, as anyone who's studied digestion will tell you. Digesting milk - ANY type of milk - requires the enzyme LACTASE. Most animals, especially carnivores, do not produce much lactase once they are past the weaning stage.









Can Dogs Drink Milk? Is Milk Bad for Dogs?


Can dogs drink milk? It depends, because some canine companions are lactose intolerant. Here's what you should know about giving your dog milk.




www.akc.org


----------



## David Winners

I see no difference in goats milk and cows milk. Yogurt and kefir are tolerated better because the bacteria that colonize the milk consume the lactose.


----------



## readaboutdogs

Sorry to hear Shadow going thru a rough spot. I second the gabapentin, my shepherd Cody had problems with the metacam and rimadyl, like you said had been on several times but became a " buildup" intolerance overtime. Moo, not GSD, was on gabapentin and low dose cortalone for nearly 2 years, they tried weening off the cortalone a couple times but his appitite and general activity would go downhill so ended up keeping him on both, I think the steroid helped a lot. We walked at the park a lot and he was able to jump up on the couch even in his last week. From your posts, sounds like the meds had to do with her vomiting, moo got to where he only ate canned or cooked chicken, I found the "richer" flavors, the ones like liver/beef, he'd eat, but then like vomit the meal. Hopeful the vet will help get her comfortable. You are taking caring of your girl.


----------



## readaboutdogs

I was going to add, the gabapentin was 100mg, given twice daily, cortalone 1.5mg, 1/2 tablet given once a day. I usually gave cortalone and one gabapentin with his breakfast, then the other gabapentin with what I called his after supper small "dinner" in the evening


----------



## Lexie’s mom

I have 1st hand experience with cancer dogs that would barely eat anything and goat milk helped to nourish them back to life whatever time they had left.. if I have substituted it for cow milk- there would have been puking and diarrhea instead. I agree that yogurt and kefir are tolerated better. Looks like there’s a bunch of older threads on this forum discussing it.
Probably me being old fashioned but a few years ago there were stories online and on the dog forums that I belonged too describing horrible side effects of using Rimadil. Derramax and Metacam being a safer alternative.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl

I had a dog come back from the brink on goat milk too. But it was raw goat milk that I had hand milked from my own pastured, organic fed goat herd. So I think that's a whole different kind of milk than say pasteurized goat milk in the store or even goat milk from goats who live in a barn and eat huge quantities of grain. My goats did get grain, but the majority of their food was pasture and some hay supplemented when they were put up overnight to keep them from being killed by animals.

IT was a foster dog who had really been thru it and she was skinny and sick and wouldn't eat. She got into my toss pail by accident and drank the whole thing and perked up. So I started feeding her my toss milk every day with her kibble and she thrived for the first time and I felt I'd tried everything before that to get her to want to eat and want to live.


----------



## Sabis mom

Shadow tolerates goats milk well. She likes it and it has been effective in getting her to eat. For the record I cannot drink cows milk. It gives me horrible stomach craps and nausea. But I can drink goats milk. 
Carmen had suggested goats milk ages ago for Shadow. I'm in North Bay, so it's not like there is a ton of health food resources available. We tried yogurt and she decided she is not a fan. The stores here sometimes have kefir and sometimes not. 
Basically I give her a small amount of goats milk in a bowl, wait 20 minutes and feed her breakfast.

The Metacam. It has always been my preferred go to as I found many dogs tolerate it better and there is a lower risk of side effects. Plus the potential for long term effects is lower. This is the first time I have had a problem. Shadow will not be getting it again. I will speak to her vet tomorrow about other alternatives. I didn't even consider that for a dog with digestive issues it may be a problem.

So basically I am keeping my fingers crossed that this was just a set back. Because soon I will need too start considering if this is worth it for her or if this is all for me.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Oh, I was referring to raw goat milk as well!


----------



## EgansMom

Sabis mom said:


> So basically I am keeping my fingers crossed that this was just a set back. Because soon I will need too start considering if this is worth it for her or if this is all for me.


I think there are many crossed fingers on here for Shadow. 🤞


----------



## David Winners

Sabis mom said:


> So basically I am keeping my fingers crossed that this was just a set back. Because soon I will need too start considering if this is worth it for her or if this is all for me.


Selfless decisions are the hardest to make. She's a tough girl and you are doing everything right. We're rooting for Shadow 🥰


----------



## Sabis mom

Just got of the phone. Big note on her file now. No Metacam! 
They said I did exactly the right thing and we are going to try the Gabapentin. I will go get her prescription in a bit. 
I have also spoken to @Saphire, so will be looking at some other options as well. 
All I have to do is get her through the winter. Eight more weeks is the goal. Then it can warm up and the sun can do it's job. 
Hang in there Baby Girl.


----------



## Sunsilver

Hope the gabapentin does the trick!


----------



## dogfaeries

Sage was on gabapentin after we ditched the Deramaxx. It definitely helped with the pain in her spine.


----------



## Sabis mom

I have to call the vet in the morning. I read the dosage on the bottle when I got home and it sounds wrong so I want to double check before I give her anything.


----------



## Sabis mom

They are 100mg capsules and it says two twice a day.


----------



## GSDchoice

Rumo takes carprofen and gaba for his arthritis. The two drugs seem to work well together, and are commonly prescribed together, according to my internet research...
We started out exactly following vet's prescription and dose, but over the past months I've been reducing the dosage and seeing how he feels/does...so now he is on 33% of the prescribed GABA dose and 50% of the prescribed carprofen dose. I've discussed with vet and she is totally ok with it, and he is feeling fine, enjoying life and seems happy. (If he goes 2-3 days without meds, or before starting the meds, he would sleep most of the day, and minimize his movement. Now he follows me from room to room again, even upstairs, so I think he's feeling pretty good.)

We were doing "natural" stuff before (bone broth, minimizing impact, joint supplements, etc) but at age 10+ I guess he is at the point now where he needs meds...

Hope Shadow does well and is feeling better soon!!

( _PS I'm sure they will tell you this, but one of the side effects of the gaba is drowsiness. It can be pronounced at first, but as their system adjusts, they won't be so sleepy. Carprofen can cause digestive upset, so I always give it with a meal...he's been fine so far, normal poops.)_


----------



## Bearshandler

I don’t think shadow will be leaving you until she gets her puppy. She’s been waiting a long time you know?


----------



## Sabis mom

@GSDchoice Thanks! 
Shadow is just on the gabapentin. She is the same age as Rumo, turned 10 on October 1. Vet did warn we about the drowsiness, and since she is falling occasionally I need to keep an eye on her since apparently it can increase that risk. 
Our plan is that this will be temporary. I also will be attempting a switch to a raw diet with some supplements, see if I can keep my girl around for a while yet because looking at her now I wouldn't be putting her through another winter.


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> I don’t think shadow will be leaving you until she gets her puppy. She’s been waiting a long time you know?


You have no idea how much I am praying that you are right.


----------



## David Winners

Sabis mom said:


> They are 100mg capsules and it says two twice a day.


That's fine. Gabapentin is safe at very high doses. I take as much as 2800mg per day. Fama was on 300mg 3 times a day.

They come in 100mg and 300mg doses


----------



## Sabis mom

I will be at work for 6 hours today and 9 tomorrow. After consulting with my vet we have decided not to start meds until Friday, to be sure that if there is a reaction She is not alone when it happens. Reactions are rare but since this is Shadow there is a risk.
On Saturday I will test the raw diet with her. We need to be sure she will eat before I move ahead with the switch. She has refused raw before.
I just happen to have some raw in my freezer.
Huge thanks to @Saphire for her guidance in planning this and Carmen for her valuable input. 
I love this dog, and while I won't watch her suffer, I just am just not ready to say goodbye.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> I will be at work for 6 hours today and 9 tomorrow. After consulting with my vet we have decided not to start meds until Friday, to be sure that if there is a reaction She is not alone when it happens. Reactions are rare but since this is Shadow there is a risk.
> On Saturday I will test the raw diet with her. We need to be sure she will eat before I move ahead with the switch. She has refused raw before.
> I just happen to have some raw in my freezer.
> Huge thanks to @Saphire for her guidance in planning this and Carmen for her valuable input.
> I love this dog, and while I won't watch her suffer, I just am just not ready to say goodbye.


Sounds like a good plan with wonderful people helping you through this. Peace.


----------



## Jenny720

I know someone that gave their dog adequan injections and helped with arthritis. She sounds like she is doing really good. When the body is stressed it gets hard to keep weight on. The winters are rough for them with arthritis. I can only imagine the rough winters are like in Canada.

Karat had arthritis that started to slow him down at 8 years old he would get to the point where he had his limitations on our walks even in the soft sand even in the warm weather. Although he slowed down a great deal he was comfortable till the end. It did get to the point his last winter was when he was 12 the arthritis was so bad he cried in pain it was co start crying. It was pretty awful. He was put on given and pain injection of some sort and was put on rimadyl it seemed to help only for a short time but that started to make him sick , food started to make him sick. They let you know when it’s time.
Spring is around the corner I hope she is feeling her self again.


----------



## David Winners

Sabis mom said:


> I will be at work for 6 hours today and 9 tomorrow. After consulting with my vet we have decided not to start meds until Friday, to be sure that if there is a reaction She is not alone when it happens. Reactions are rare but since this is Shadow there is a risk.
> On Saturday I will test the raw diet with her. We need to be sure she will eat before I move ahead with the switch. She has refused raw before.
> I just happen to have some raw in my freezer.
> Huge thanks to @Saphire for her guidance in planning this and Carmen for her valuable input.
> I love this dog, and while I won't watch her suffer, I just am just not ready to say goodbye.


Carmen was an absolute godsend with Fama.


----------



## WIBackpacker

Gabapentin was a game changer for one of my dogs. Like most of you guys, I'm wary of long term painkiller use, but the interesting thing about gabapentin is that it "took the edge off" _but didn't convince my dog she was invincible_. She would self-limit on gabapentin, which is what the vet and I were hoping for - but she was far more comfortable and relaxed. I hope you get similar results. 

Sounds like you already have an army of helpful of supplement gurus on your team. If you're struggling to bring her appetite up, making your own bone broth might be worth trying. Fill a crockpot with bones, a small splash of apple cider vinegar, cover with water. Cook 1-2 days on low. Cool completely - I put the whole pot into the fridge - so the fat solidifies. Skim off all the fat and discard, pick out all the bones and any tendons/etc and discard. You should be left with jiggly, meat-flecked gelatin. Gently re-warmed, you can mix it into kibble (or raw) and it seems to really bring their appetite up. No dairy, and no excessive fat, if either of those are problems with her system. 

Once she's eating, you have the important meds balanced, and the big pieces of the puzzle figured out..... you could take a deep dive into reading and asking your doc about whether or not CBD would be a good choice for her. I was very skeptical for a very long time, but it's been a positive thing for my senior with mobility problems. 

Hang in there.


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> Carmen was an absolute godsend with Fama.


I figured if anyone could give us a chance it would be Carmen. Between her and Saphire I think Shadow is in good hands.


----------



## Sabis mom

Shift got cancelled today so I gave Punk her first dose of the gabapentin about an hour ago. She is laying on the couch with her head hanging over the edge. Been that way for 20 minutes. Lol. 
Doesn't look comfortable.


----------



## Sabis mom

Well, I got the big sore on her back all cleaned up. Gave her a taste of the raw with her evening pills. She was begging for it so that's a good sign. 
Sore on her back is just from her chewing where her back hurts. It just gets matted from the vet spray so I need to clean it all the time. She hates it so it's always a fight.
Now on the hunt for a nail grinder because she can no longer walk far enough to keep her nails in check. Every store in North Bay is sold out and for some reason Amazon has a one month delivery time on them. 
But the meds seem to be not making her too wobbly, she just sleeps for a bit.


----------



## Dunkirk

Have you checked ebay for a dremel?


----------



## Sabis mom

No! I will do that.


----------



## David Winners

Check the local hardware or box stores for a Dremel. 

Gabapentin has an adjustment period. Give it a few days.


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> Check the local hardware or box stores for a Dremel.
> 
> Gabapentin has an adjustment period. Give it a few days.


The vet warned me that because she is a senior it could cause wobbliness or lack of coordination. She was twitching a bit this morning but apparently that's just her muscles reacting.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> Well, I got the big sore on her back all cleaned up. Gave her a taste of the raw with her evening pills. She was begging for it so that's a good sign.
> Sore on her back is just from her chewing where her back hurts. It just gets matted from the vet spray so I need to clean it all the time. She hates it so it's always a fight.
> Now on the hunt for a nail grinder because she can no longer walk far enough to keep her nails in check. Every store in North Bay is sold out and for some reason Amazon has a one month delivery time on them.
> But the meds seem to be not making her too wobbly, she just sleeps for a bit.


This is what I use for nails.


----------



## Sabis mom

@Saphire I found one on Amazon last night and ordered it. It's a Dremel with the nail guard and cordless so I can get her while she's sleeping. Lol. 
I've never trimmed her nails. Walking and climbing was always enough. It's her side nails that are getting too long, the middle ones are still fine. Dogs use their nails for balance and grip, so they shouldn't be trimmed to nubs.
It should be here in a week.
Tip for everyone, put the stuff you want on Amazon on a wishlist. They alert you as soon as there is a price change or they come available.


----------



## Sabis mom

Oh and she wolfed down some more raw this morning! I don't know how much to give her so just giving her whatever. But she's eating!


----------



## DogsRPeople2

Sabis mom said:


> Oh and she wolfed down some more raw this morning! I don't know how much to give her so just giving her whatever. But she's eating!


So glad she’s eating! 😊


----------



## Sabis mom

I have no clue how much of this stuff to feed her. Lol. I'm guessing one stick of it weighs somewhere around 1.5 lbs. So I just keep giving her inch thick slices every few hours. Lol. I'm guessing she will stop when she's full.


----------



## Sabis mom

Well she wolfed down about 3/4 of a pound yesterday. Lol. First time in her life I haven't had to beg her to eat! 
Gabapentin seems to be fine. She is back to her feisty, snarky self. Scaling snow banks and lipping off. No loose stools, no vomitting. She sleeps for a bit right after I give it. That's all.
For anyone who is curious, still no food aggression. I hold her dish and rub her ears while she is eating. She still needs to be close to me.


----------



## readaboutdogs

Glad She's eating and the gabapentin fine, moo always slept for a bit too, and the nite dose seemed to help him sleep thru the nite better. 
ahhh, seniors, they almost seem to become more child like in their dependence on us, to me, just more endearing, their trust in you. I had wrote once of seeing like a "handing over of the reins".
I don't remember you ever posting about food aggression, moo and my shepherds I'd hand fed, so wasn't sure if you were referring to as she gets older, if that is what you were referring to, I don't think you'll see that at all.


----------



## dogfaeries

Great news! Happy to hear she’s doing better.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Glad Shadow is feeling better! Gabapentin can increase her appetite. My husband was always hungry when he was taking it. Gained some weight.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> Well she wolfed down about 3/4 of a pound yesterday. Lol. First time in her life I haven't had to beg her to eat!
> Gabapentin seems to be fine. She is back to her feisty, snarky self. Scaling snow banks and lipping off. No loose stools, no vomitting. She sleeps for a bit right after I give it. That's all.
> For anyone who is curious, still no food aggression. I hold her dish and rub her ears while she is eating. She still needs to be close to me.


I'd prefer to ♥ this reply. Not just like. 😉


----------



## Sabis mom

readaboutdogs said:


> I don't remember you ever posting about food aggression,


Some people had suggested that kibble fed dogs aren't food aggressive because it is not high value enough. That they would be food aggressive if raw fed. 
I contend that if the topic of food is approached properly most food aggressive dogs wouldn't be. 
Shadow has always associated being close to me, specifically my hands, with food. So there is little chance that any food would elicit an aggressive reaction.
That was all I was referring to.


----------



## EgansMom

Sabis mom said:


> I have no clue how much of this stuff to feed her. Lol. I'm guessing one stick of it weighs somewhere around 1.5 lbs. So I just keep giving her inch thick slices every few hours. Lol. I'm guessing she will stop when she's full.


Copied from preymodelraw.com:
The feeding guideline is between 2-3% of the adult dog's ideal body weight per day (keep in mind that this is for IDEAL weight...and that your dog might need to lose or gain some weight so adjust the amount accordingly!). For example, if a dog weighs 60 pounds, he should be getting 1.2-1.8 pounds of food per day. The 2-3% is just a guideline, and you should also take into account your dog's energy level, age, breed, etc into account when figuring out how much to feed, which just might mean you would be giving more like 4% per day. 

I am doing a happy dance that she's eating🥩🍗🍖🐑🐄🐇🐓🐟 ok so maybe I got a little carried away. lol


----------



## Jenny720

This is a good raw feeding calculator. I feed raw sporadically as the dogs are okay with this and get no stomach upset. Most often it is already prepared like k9 craving , primal kitchen. I also tried the fresh cooked with brown rice -nothing white with just food for dogs which is new in the area. When feeding raw I just crate Topper my chihuahua as it’s the only time when I saw max run across the kitchen and chase him out of the kitchen during Max’sraw feeding. The chihuahua was no where near is bowl but Max did not even want him in the kitchen. It’s when I decided to always crate topper when during the dogs meal time just to get into that habit. He has no issues with us- none of the dogs did And had fed raw before. No issues with food dropping on the floor either but i assume with the raw diet and the bones it takes longer to eat and leaves their bowl a bit open to any 7lb scavengers.








Raw Feeding Calculators For Cats & Dogs


Prey Model Raw (PMR) and Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods (BARF) daily maintenance feeding requirement calculators for cats and dogs.




perfectlyrawsome.com


----------



## Sabis mom

She has been mad at me all day because her food didn't thaw in time so her breakfast was a bit small and she didn't get lunch. Yes I am feeding her three meals, I just tortured her stomach and she needs time to heal.
Anyway, I finally got some thawed and set it down for her. She walked away. Seriously. I was very excited about this, thought we had solved the eating issue. 
I put it in the fridge. Will try again in a bit. She ate about a pound yesterday, and she had about 1/4 of a pound for breakfast.
Not happy right now.


----------



## DogsRPeople2

Sabis mom said:


> She has been mad at me all day because her food didn't thaw in time so her breakfast was a bit small and she didn't get lunch. Yes I am feeding her three meals, I just tortured her stomach and she needs time to heal.
> Anyway, I finally got some thawed and set it down for her. She walked away. Seriously. I was very excited about this, thought we had solved the eating issue.
> I put it in the fridge. Will try again in a bit. She ate about a pound yesterday, and she had about 1/4 of a pound for breakfast.
> Not happy right now.


I hope she eats soon. Please let us know🙂


----------



## Sabis mom

I'm hoping she's just sore. She was a bit of a spaz yesterday, engaging in the dog version of high marking. Lol. Climb the snow bank, pee at the top, slide down. Lather, rinse, repeat. 
I keep telling her she's not a puppy but she doesn't believe me.
Not going to try again for a bit. She needs her pills before bed so I will try a bit then.


----------



## EgansMom

Put it in the microwave for like 15 - 20 seconds...not enough to cook it ...but enough to take the chill off


----------



## Bearshandler

Run water over it


----------



## DogsRPeople2

EgansMom said:


> Put it in the microwave for like 15 - 20 seconds...not enough to cook it ...but enough to take the chill off


Yeah if you put some in a ziplock bag and run it under warm water it may help.


----------



## David Winners

Feed it frozen


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> Feed it frozen


is that ok?


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> is that ok?


 Typically when I feed raw, it was still partially frozen. “Crunchy.” It usually wasn’t fully thawed.


----------



## Sabis mom

I got her to eat a bit, but she was really not interested. 
I thought it had to be thawed. I don't know why I thought that. Oh well, now I know. I have fed her frozen stuff before and when I give her knuckle bones to clean I typically half freeze them. 
If this goes true to form she should eat again tomorrow evening, she typically fasts herself for about 24 hrs every few days. I was not expecting this with raw but we will see.
One thing I have noticed is when she is finished eating the raw she does not ask me to rub/push on her stomach like she normally does.


----------



## Saphire

I feed thawed, frozen, partially frozen etc. I would not microwave if there is any ground bone in the mix.


----------



## Sabis mom

I'm afraid of my microwave. All those little radiation thingys jumping around. Not gettin me. Nope. That thing stays unplugged. And closed just in case they are lurking in there waiting.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> I'm afraid of my microwave. All those little radiation thingys jumping around. Not gettin me. Nope. That thing stays unplugged. And closed just in case they are lurking in there waiting.


🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## David Winners

I don't feed straight from the deep freeze. I worry about damage to the lips at -10°. I'll leave it out for an hour before feeding.


----------



## Sabis mom

She has been doing great! Still on two meals a day but just over a lb total. I tried just one meal and she ate half and walked away. Still likes me to hold her dish.
She does break into the kibble bucket and help herself to snacks. Lol.
And then this morning we head out for our morning walk, get just to the corner and she lets out a Yelp and stops. Left rear leg. Won't put weight on it. Vet is closed for the weekend.
I'm so sad right now. Every time I think we are getting somewhere something else goes wrong.


----------



## ksotto333

I didn't mean to like this. Well the first part. A little more rest til you talk to the vet.


----------



## Sabis mom

This is the issue just to get her outside to pee. Then we have the issue of having to walk somewhere so she can go. The landlady refuses to clean up after her dog and Shadow refuses to walk through dog crap.


----------



## Bearshandler

I also refuse to walk through dog crap. All in all I think she’s doing pretty well. You don’t need to be so down about her. While leg injuries aren’t something to celebrate, they aren’t anything you need to stress about. She’s a dog not a horse, leg injuries don’t mean the end of her life. If that is your biggest concern with her at the moment, I think you’re doing pretty good. There’s a dog, Miko, that Bear and I saw every day. Miko was a 12 year old malamute who had been paralyzed in his backend since he was 2. He was still living a pretty good life all things being considered. Don’t let the small things distract you from your bigger victories.


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> I also refuse to walk through dog crap.


Thanks for the chuckle. Lol.
You are right. I'm trying to stay positive and all. She's just running out of legs! I'm going to rest her for the weekend. See where we are on Monday. Hopefully she just tweeked a muscle but at this point it's taking no weight and she can't even use it for balance.


----------



## EgansMom

Oh dear. So sorry to hear. Heat/ice/massage/gabepentin ? Puppy pads or newspaper for now ?
Are you handy with tools ? I can see a way you could build a ramp without damaging the existing structure but in order to not make it too steep and be secure it would need to come to the entrance of your living room so it would make it awkward to get to the room on the left of your stairs. Hard to explain but I see a cheap/easy build. If you think it's worthwhile I will take the pic and try and draw it in my paint program.
I looked at ramps on amazon but just eyeballing it I don't think they would be long enough.
Maybe others have ideas too? Go team Shadow !


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> This is the issue just to get her outside to pee. Then we have the issue of having to walk somewhere so she can go. The landlady refuses to clean up after her dog and Shadow refuses to walk through dog crap.
> View attachment 570326


That sucks, I'm sorry.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Your landlord sucks! I would have thought she would be the most interested person to keep the building clean before the tenants complain. Sorry about Shadow! Hope she’ll feel better soon.


----------



## Sabis mom

Landlady would never go for a ramp. That room is the laundry. 
Good news though, I used an old scarf I have to help her up the stairs and down the disaster of a driveway. It worked pretty good. Let her do the work just kept enough pressure to hold her if she slipped. She wanted to walk further then I planned so I let her lead for a bit and we just took it slow. Limp seemed to get better as we went. Leg is twisting funny, like she really cannot control it.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

This might help:


https://www.amazon.com/Max-Neo-Support-Rehab-Harness/dp/B0791X1DSH/ref=asc_df_B0791VYZWG/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=&hvpos=&hvnetw=o&hvrand=&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795260324886&psc=1&th=1


----------



## Miika's Mom

She almost sounds like me when I pinched a nerve (found on MRI so w know for certain). For me the thing that helped the most was when I was getting out of my car at the doctor and my back went “THUNK” and I was instantly more than 75% better. I think it had been about a week after being put on prednisone to get the inflammation down (bulging disc was pushing nerve against a bone spur),

Also a sling made of pillow cases works well too. Just use one or two to make a loop.


----------



## Sabis mom

Miika's Mom said:


> She almost sounds like me when I pinched a nerve (found on MRI so w know for certain). For me the thing that helped the most was when I was getting out of my car at the doctor and my back went “THUNK” and I was instantly more than 75% better. I think it had been about a week after being put on prednisone to get the inflammation down (bulging disc was pushing nerve against a bone spur),
> 
> Also a sling made of pillow cases works well too. Just use one or two to make a loop.


I have no clue what she did. I do know there is an issue with her spine. We had just reached the corner when she yelped and started limping. I did immediately check her foot. I made her walk a bit to see if she was just spooked or had just twisted it. 
She is resting now but clearly does not want to put weight on it. It is hurting because when she stretches it it shakes. I'm not stretching it, she is.


----------



## David Winners

Flip her paw over and put it pads facing behind her on the floor so the tops of her toes are against the floor. She should immediately flip it back up the right way. Any delay in this response it's neurological as the response is a reflex and not conscious. This will help you determine if it is musculoskeletal or neurological.

If it is neurological, it's probably in the lower spine, not in the leg itself. This will help you target treatment, such as rotating heat and ice, massage, Gabapentin.

Another test is to put on a glove and put your little finger into her anus. It should clench immediately. A little lube such as triple A helps with discomfort.

If she fails either of these tests, get back to me please.


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> Flip her paw over and put it pads facing behind her on the floor so the tops of her toes are against the floor. She should immediately flip it back up the right way. Any delay in this response it's neurological as the response is a reflex and not conscious. This will help you determine if it is musculoskeletal or neurological.
> 
> If it is neurological, it's probably in the lower spine, not in the leg itself. This will help you target treatment, such as rotating heat and ice, massage, Gabapentin.
> 
> Another test is to put on a glove and put your little finger into her anus. It should clench immediately. A little lube such as triple A helps with discomfort.
> 
> If she fails either of these tests, get back to me please.


She is resting on the couch right now. I am taking her out in an hour and will do both tests then. I don't want to move her anymore then I need to. Her breathing is fairly rapid so I am thinking she is in pain.
Thank you for that info. I am familiar with the foot test, it's one of the indicators for DM.


----------



## EgansMom

Slipped disk/pinched nerve sounds very possible. I have probs with a couple disks and my doc always asks me if my foot is dropping, dragging or losing feeling. If she threw out a disk it would explain the sudden yelp and loss of control in the leg. When I herniated my disk it felt like something exploded in my back. It's very painful. I lost all feeling in the front of my thigh too. Rest, ice and pain meds were all that helped. These things always happen on a weekend don't they ?


----------



## Sabis mom

@David Winners she passed both, although I had to hold her up to do the foot test. She did good on her walk, cannot navigate stairs at all and cannot trot. She tried to trot and her whole back end just buckled.
I reexamined her whole foot, leg and back. No injury to the foot and the only place that seems to have any heat or sensitivity is right in her thigh. Right on that cruciate tendon. Again.


----------



## David Winners

Sabis mom said:


> @David Winners she passed both, although I had to hold her up to do the foot test. She did good on her walk, cannot navigate stairs at all and cannot trot. She tried to trot and her whole back end just buckled.
> I reexamined her whole foot, leg and back. No injury to the foot and the only place that seems to have any heat or sensitivity is right in her thigh. Right on that cruciate tendon. Again.


Good news. RICE and time should do it.

I hurt myself picking up a gallon of BBQ sauce. 

Old age sucks.

Keep me in the loop ❤


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> Good news. RICE and time should do it.
> 
> I hurt myself picking up a gallon of BBQ sauce.
> 
> Old age sucks.
> 
> Keep me in the loop ❤


I agree. Old age does suck.

Thank you, again.


----------



## EgansMom

Thank goodness. That sucks but that's better than a blown disk.


----------



## Sabis mom

I'm at a bit of a loss here. This leg is taking no weight and no pressure. I'm basically lifting her up the stairs with a sling. She slept great through the night.
I took her out to pee this morning and once she was on solid footing she just wanted to go and go. She cannot trot. At all. But walks with almost no trace of a limp and is happy and wagging her tail.
I think moderate exercise will help but I know crate rest is recommended. So do I let her walk a bit, not a lot just a bit, to take the edge off the crazy for her?


----------



## David Winners

Limited exercise should help. Swimming is best but walking is fine imho. Once the space between the vertebrae collapses, very little will help other than meds and keeping the core muscles strong enough to support the spine.

Disclaimer: I'm not a veterinarian.


----------



## Sabis mom

I had to lift the stupid cow off of two snowbanks last night. Now I have a sore back. Lol. 
I do not think stopping her exercise is smart. In her case it's just going to make her stupider, and she already makes poor decisions. 
She basically has no use of one back leg and limited use of the other and still she thought it was a smart idea to climb a bank. And she made the decision in a split second. This after just two days of limited movement.
Spoke to her vet this morning. She said no point in bringing her, just keep resting her. We have an appointment next week to reassess.


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> I had to lift the stupid cow off of two snowbanks last night. Now I have a sore back. Lol.
> I do not think stopping her exercise is smart. In her case it's just going to make her stupider, and she already makes poor decisions.
> She basically has no use of one back leg and limited use of the other and still she thought it was a smart idea to climb a bank. And she made the decision in a split second. This after just two days of limited movement.
> Spoke to her vet this morning. She said no point in bringing her, just keep resting her. We have an appointment next week to reassess.


Sounds like what I’d expect from Shadow. I’d be more worried if she wasn’t climbing those snow banks.


----------



## Sabis mom

So my little weirdo is weird
Had to go grab some raw from a new place. Grabbed the chicken because she has been eating chicken. Wouldn't touch it! She loves chicken, it's what I fed her as a pup when I was weaning onto solid food. 
She circled her dish and then laid down and cried , but would not touch it. Tried again this morning same thing. So I called the place I bought it and asked if he was sure it was chicken. Explained that she would not eat it at all. Bring it back and we will try something else. 
So I give her lamb, she has had that before. She likes it and eats it fine. So I give her a bit more just now and it's cut into four bite size cubes because it's still pretty frozen. She takes three of them out of her dish and lines them up all nice on the floor. Sniffs each piece then eats the one in the bowl. Then sniffs the ones on the floor again and eats them one by one in some only known to Shadow order, except the last one which she puts back in her dish and then eats. 
I cannot make this stuff up.


----------



## dogfaeries

I love her.


----------



## DogsRPeople2

Sabis mom said:


> So my little weirdo is weird
> Had to go grab some raw from a new place. Grabbed the chicken because she has been eating chicken. Wouldn't touch it! She loves chicken, it's what I fed her as a pup when I was weaning onto solid food.
> She circled her dish and then laid down and cried , but would not touch it. Tried again this morning same thing. So I called the place I bought it and asked if he was sure it was chicken. Explained that she would not eat it at all. Bring it back and we will try something else.
> So I give her lamb, she has had that before. She likes it and eats it fine. So I give her a bit more just now and it's cut into four bite size cubes because it's still pretty frozen. She takes three of them out of her dish and lines them up all nice on the floor. Sniffs each piece then eats the one in the bowl. Then sniffs the ones on the floor again and eats them one by one in some only known to Shadow order, except the last one which she puts back in her dish and then eats.
> I cannot make this stuff up.


What a cutie she is! 💕


----------



## Dunkirk

Shadow, exercising artistic expression with food ... or was she practicing algebra?


----------



## Saphire




----------



## Sabis mom

Haha! @David Winners I got Gus kisses!

Saphire brought some yummies for Punk and we got to visit. Shadow seems happy with her new food and @Saphire I tossed the other food since it didn't look like turkey to you either. She cleaned her dish, no questions asked. 

So awesome to hang out with you and the dogs for a minute! Gus is awesome and the wee one is a sweetie! I need more dogs.


----------



## Saphire

Shadow looks great, keep up the great work. Was great to hang out and visit.


----------



## Sabis mom

I also now have a witness to the fact that Shadow has memorized the commercials on TV. She knows what commercials are on by the sound. I told you I wasn't kidding!


----------



## Saphire

I can officially verify this a factual lolol


----------



## David Winners

I'm jealous!

Glad the punk is eating well


----------



## Sabis mom

She ate breakfast this morning! No problem. Cleaned her dish. I can't say she's excited, but she's interested. 
With no stairs and ice to deal with she's moving easier. It was good to have @Saphire here to see her movement and overall condition. It's really hard to watch a dog move when you are holding the leash. And tough to judge condition changes when you see them daily.
Gus is an absolute love, he wanted nothing to do with me. Lol. He did jump up to give me a kiss though. Shadow is very interested in where he peed and would like to know if he is coming back. Lol. She has been watching out the window for him.


----------



## Sabis mom

And she ate supper. Yay! Thank you so much for the food @Saphire! I cannot explain how happy it makes me to see this dog eat. 
Vet appointment tomorrow. She is limping a bit and sort of hunching her back, because she's a moron and thinks she can leap about like a wild thing.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> And she ate supper. Yay! Thank you so much for the food @Saphire! I cannot explain how happy it makes me to see this dog eat.
> Vet appointment tomorrow. She is limping a bit and sort of hunching her back, because she's a moron and thinks she can leap about like a wild thing.


Of course she is, LOL it’s my hand made food 😁😁


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> I also now have a witness to the fact that Shadow has memorized the commercials on TV. She knows what commercials are on by the sound. I told you I wasn't kidding!


Ha, I thought only Tess did that. She'll coming running from a different room for her favorites.😅 Good girl Shadow.


----------



## Sabis mom

Well, I got two meals into her yesterday but today so far nothing. 
Vet says she is doing good, not to expect this back leg to recover better then the other one did. I can say that my moderate exercise plan seems to be healing faster then the crate rest plan did on the other leg. Now perhaps the other leg was injured worse, but personally I really don't believe inactivity is good for anything. I understand the concept, I just don't know that it is the right concept.
I know when horses are injured they are iced, wrapped and walked a lot.


----------



## Sabis mom

Been trying to get this witch to eat all day. Put her food on the floor and a dog commercial came on. She barked at the TV and then wolfed down her food, in like 10 seconds flat! 
Note to self, record dog commercials. Lol.


----------



## Sabis mom

Ok. Update number 999! Lol. So it's been 3 weeks since she injured her left rear leg. I am thrilled to report that she is doing remarkable! I have just in the last few days added slow trotting for short distances on level grass and she is ecstatic!. We also have a rocky area just behind us with some gentle inclines that we have been exploring in the mornings. She is doing great and while neither back leg stands up to much strain, she is more then willing to try. The vet is stunned at her progress from bearing no weight at all. 
Raw food is moderately appealing but not great. She is however fairly consistent at around a pound a day, as long as I feed her with a fork. Weight is good at about 56lbs now, eyes are clear. Vet wants more, I think she looks good. She is losing hair on the back of one ear and seems itchy, but I'm going to give it a bit and see if that changes. It is spring and that means lots of dead coat itchies. 
All in all, from a month ago to now she is a different dog.


----------



## ksotto333

Great wonderful news.


----------



## FarNorthGirl

Glad there’s so much improvement 

I think I missed the brand you use for raw food... just wanted to mention there’s one brand of premise that my girl just hated (big country raw). She prefers the thicker grinds hands down. Maybe a different brand would be different? 

Although I’m sure she’s enjoying being treated like royalty being hand fed 😂


----------



## Sabis mom

FarNorthGirl said:


> Glad there’s so much improvement
> 
> I think I missed the brand you use for raw food... just wanted to mention there’s one brand of premise that my girl just hated (big country raw). She prefers the thicker grinds hands down. Maybe a different brand would be different?
> 
> Although I’m sure she’s enjoying being treated like royalty being hand fed 😂


I was given some from Heronview initially, and she loved it. Picked up some from Alpha Dog and she did fine with it. Bought a few lbs from a local place called Mellow Acres and that's when everything went south. She was not just unenthusiastic, she would actively avoid the food and move away. But @Saphire brought me the food she made for Shadow and we are doing ok now. I initially returned the food she refused and they replaced it but she still would not eat and after showing the food to Saphire when she was here I tossed it. Neither of us thought it looked like what it was supposed to be and honestly it was making me really nervous that Shadow was so insistent that she was not eating it. She actually pulled other food from around it.
I had to hand feed Punk as a pup so it really doesn't surprise me that she has reverted to seeking the contact. And I believe that is all this is. If I were willing to scoop it up with my fingers she would probably prefer that but failing that the fork will do. Really she just wants Mama to sit and pet her while she eats, and I am the closest thing to a mother this girl has ever had. I've had her since her eyes were barely open and still blurry. I cannot see her having memories of siblings or dam given her condition.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

There was something wrong with that food most likely and Shadow is smart to refuse eating it. At a senior age we would probably do anything to keep them going, hand feeding or fork feeding is perfectly fine as long as they are eating and not deteriorating as far as weight stamina etc.


----------



## Sabis mom

We are currently living in a motel room, due to a flooded apartment so raw food is unbelievably difficult. However, my girl is rebounding so well that I opted to continue.
She has gained a ton of weight! Her leg is healing incredibly well and although she will likely never race around or scale walls she is able to scramble around in the woods with me and on occasion even jump onto the bed unassisted.
Poop continues to puzzle me, hers actually got bigger and less consistent on raw, go figure.
We have had some hiccups along the way. First she decided she did not like raw food, then she insisted on two or three small meals a day. Then for a while she would only eat it if I fed her with a fork! 
She continues on her deal of inserting fasting days every few days. But yesterday she wolfed down about a pound and a half all by herself and today a pound! 
I'm lazy. She needs about a pound a day, her food comes in two pound bags. I dump a bag into her dish and when she stops eating I put in in the fridge until next time. Lol.
Words cannot express how much I love this little weirdo.


----------



## Sabis mom

Vet appointment to pick up flea/tick/heartworm meds. Little witch is now 29kgs on the nose! Vet is thrilled beyond words at her condition. I think she's fat. Lol. 
Leg has healed amazingly, and while she won't run marathons or scale walls she is mobile on her own and able to enjoy life with a bit of help. 
@Saphire THANK YOU!


----------



## Sunsilver

GREAT NEWS!!


----------



## Bearshandler

I told you she’d be fine. She’s a tough one.


----------



## Sabis mom

correction 27kgs.


----------



## Sunsilver

That's just a smidge under 60 lbs. So, definitely NOT FAT! 😁


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> Vet appointment to pick up flea/tick/heartworm meds. Little witch is now 29kgs on the nose! Vet is thrilled beyond words at her condition. I think she's fat. Lol.
> Leg has healed amazingly, and while she won't run marathons or scale walls she is mobile on her own and able to enjoy life with a bit of help.
> @Saphire THANK YOU!


So glad I could help ❤
She’s not fat, she looks amazing and IMO does not look her age.


----------



## Sabis mom

I stand corrected! Not fat. Lol.
I prefer to be able to see a rib. The argument is that leaves nothing in reserve. I don't know which is best.

But now she isn't my monkey, she's my chunky monkey! Hahaha


----------



## Lexie’s mom

I think that while she is in a good spirit with a good appetite you can use it as a chance for her to get a couple of extra pounds. It would not hurt!)


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> I stand corrected! Not fat. Lol.
> I prefer to be able to see a rib. The argument is that leaves nothing in reserve. I don't know which is best.
> 
> But now she isn't my monkey, she's my chunky monkey! Hahaha


She has SOME resources now for sure but I consider her weight perfect and very similar to the look I like for Gus. Soooooooo if she’s fat, Gus is fat and well he’s not so there lol


----------



## Sabis mom

Saphire said:


> She has SOME resources now for sure but I consider her weight perfect and very similar to the look I like for Gus. Soooooooo if she’s fat, Gus is fat and well he’s not so there lol


Gus is not fat! He has muscle that Shadow can't build. But I give! She can stay this weight. Lol.


----------



## Sabis mom

My chunky monkey out enjoying the sun.


----------



## Lexie’s mom

Looking good!)


----------



## ksotto333

Aw, she looks so good.


----------



## David Winners

I think she looks great. I would argue that having a few pounds in reserve is beneficial when they are older, as that is the time they may need some reserves to get them through a medical struggle.

I'm glad she's doing so well.

More pictures, video, stuff...


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> I think she looks great. I would argue that having a few pounds in reserve is beneficial when they are older, as that is the time they may need some reserves to get them through a medical struggle.
> 
> I'm glad she's doing so well.
> 
> More pictures, video, stuff...


I always like to see that last rib or two, but I do understand some cushion weight on a senior. I am hyper vigilant about her weight since I really can't exercise her as hard as a real dog. I am so glad I reached out for advice. I cannot believe that just two months ago I thought I was losing her! I have no way to express my gratitude for the knowledge, advice and support.
She is off the gabapentin for now but I expect we will need it to get through the winter. She has learned not to try and jump by herself and she is very happy to have the car back that she can get in and out of on her own. 

I only have my cell for camera/video, which is why most of the pics I get are still shots. I am looking for a way to stand my phone so I can get video of her eating off a fork! Lol. I tried to prop it up but it just slides. I might try the camera on my laptop, but I don't know how well it works anymore. All my stuff is old. Lol. The car, the phone, the laptop, the dog, the owner of all of the above. Hahaha.


----------



## David Winners

She is a real dog. She may be old, but so am I, and so are you. With that comes compromise. I think that you both are doing a great job on those compromises.

Loop some gorilla tape and stick your phone to your forehead.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional gaffer. Any hair or skin lost in the recommended technique is solely the responsibility of the user.


----------



## ksotto333

David Winners said:


> Loop some gorilla tape and stick your phone to your forehead.
> 
> Disclaimer: I am not a professional gaffer. Any hair or skin lost in the recommended technique is solely the responsibility of the user.


😅😅😅 Great visual.😅😅😅


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> She is a real dog. She may be old, but so am I, and so are you. With that comes compromise. I think that you both are doing a great job on those compromises.
> 
> Loop some gorilla tape and stick your phone to your forehead.
> 
> Disclaimer: I am not a professional gaffer. Any hair or skin lost in the recommended technique is solely the responsibility of the user.


Oh! I am so doing that! I work at Home Depot you know, I have an endless supply of tape!


----------



## Sabis mom

BTW I found out tonight that at least two Carmspack dogs maybe 15 minutes away from me. They would be older dogs but based on Carmens breeding they may still be around. Both have advanced titles, in tracking and obedience.


----------



## David Winners

She's bred a few dogs. I would reach out to them and maybe have some coffee


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> She's bred a few dogs. I would reach out to them and maybe have some coffee


I sent her a message. Just waiting for a response.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> Oh! I am so doing that! I work at Home Depot you know, I have an endless supply of tape!


Don't use Gorilla glue, we don't want to see you trending on Twitter.😅


----------



## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> Don't use Gorilla glue, we don't want to see you trending on Twitter.😅


🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
It's funny because I don't know how to do twitter!


----------



## FarNorthGirl

I thought it was trending on Tik tok! Lol 

she looks great!


----------



## Heartandsoul

Gorilla glue is worse than a waxing. Just stick it in a shoe or high heel is better. Something like this









Really glad Shadow is feeling better and she looks great.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> It's funny because I don't know how to do twitter!


Me either😉😅


----------



## GSDchoice

Re videos...there are these inexpensive little iphone stands that you can put your phone on and hit Record.  
( My daughter likes to record herself dancing.)

I think Shadow's weight is perfect! She looks good and healthy!


----------



## Sabis mom

These are the rocks we are using to work on strength and agility. She is improving and those rocky areas are everywhere. They provide natural surfaces with inclines, low climbs and uneven footing.
The hotel is surrounded by this terrain and I can easily kill an hour letting her explore without covering much distance at all.














We are using a shorter line so I can keep her out of the water. I don't think the hotel would appreciate that. It's very deep and swampy.
I took some video this morning but I was tired, she was sleepy, it's difficult to manage a line and a camera. Lol. 
Plus I have no clue how to upload video.


----------



## Sabis mom

A night off so me and Punk are watching cooking shows.
I love how she keeps all her little feet in one place.


----------



## Sabis mom

No being mean! I was trying to manage the rope and the phone! Lol. I'm not that smart. 
This is just a short video to see if I cold do it.


----------



## NadDog24

She’s looking good!


----------



## Sabis mom

NadDog24 said:


> She’s looking good!


She is a bit stumbly, and I have to watch the rope because she loses her balance easily, but she is 10.5 now so I will take what I can get. I took another short video in the parking lot where she stepped on the rope and fell. I stopped trying to get video after that because she really needs me to manage the rope. As soon as I figure out a better system I will take some more.


----------



## Saphire

She looks great


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> No being mean! I was trying to manage the rope and the phone! Lol. I'm not that smart.
> This is just a short video to see if I cold do it.


It’s good to see her enjoying life.


----------



## Saphire

Bearshandler said:


> It’s good to see her enjoying life.


She’s a happy girl and when I met her, very sweet and friendly. So relieved she’s back on track now.


----------



## Bearshandler

Saphire said:


> She’s a happy girl and when I met her, very sweet and friendly. So relieved she’s back on track now.


Part of it was your magic formula.


----------



## Saphire

Bearshandler said:


> Part of it was your magic formula.


Awww shucks. I think it’s her dedicated owner that knows exactly when she’s off a bit and takes action.


----------



## Bearshandler

Saphire said:


> Awww shucks. I think it’s her dedicated owner that knows exactly when she’s off a bit and takes action.


That she is.


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> Part of it was your magic formula.





Saphire said:


> She’s a happy girl and when I met her, very sweet and friendly. So relieved she’s back on track now.


She's smart. She knows who brings her food!

She is doing really well at the moment. Still eating with a fork, but eating. I always said she was really a friendly dog, she's just shy and gets upset when people rush and grab at her.


----------



## Sabis mom

This dog is my whole world. She is my everything. If I loose her I have nothing left, so I will bulldoze whatever mountains I have to to keep her healthy and happy.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> She's smart. She knows who brings her food!
> 
> She is doing really well at the moment. Still eating with a fork, but eating. I always said she was really a friendly dog, she's just shy and gets upset when people rush and grab at her.


Lol
Nobody should be rushing and grabbing any dog but we live in a world with a lot of entitled people.


----------



## Sabis mom

Saphire said:


> Lol
> Nobody should be rushing and grabbing any dog but we live in a world with a lot of entitled people.


You were perfect with her. She likes to figure people out, then give kisses!


----------



## Sabis mom

BTW she still won't eat chicken feet!


----------



## NadDog24

Sabis mom said:


> I always said she was really a friendly dog, she's just shy and gets upset when people rush and grab at her.


I don’t blame her! I don’t like it when people rush me either! Some people just don’t get it


----------



## David Winners

It's so good to see her on the mend 

She looks a little tentative, but that is totally understood. A long, rear clip harness may work the best for you. It would get the leash out from under her feet and lower the likelihood that she will get tangled.

This one by signature K9 is like that.








Modular LLC Harness (Lift-Load-Carry)


The Modular LLC Harness (Lift-Load-Carry) offers exceptional versatility for all working dog breeds. Lightweight yet durable, this is the only harness you need.




www.rayallen.com


----------



## Heartandsoul

Those still shots are really peaceful. That second one has rainbow rays shining right on her.
Kudos on your balancing act of taking the vid, not tripping and keeping Shadow safe. Now don’t do it again! Lol. J/k


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> It's so good to see her on the mend
> 
> She looks a little tentative, but that is totally understood. A long, rear clip harness may work the best for you. It would get the leash out from under her feet and lower the likelihood that she will get tangled.
> 
> This one by signature K9 is like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modular LLC Harness (Lift-Load-Carry)
> 
> 
> The Modular LLC Harness (Lift-Load-Carry) offers exceptional versatility for all working dog breeds. Lightweight yet durable, this is the only harness you need.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rayallen.com


That harness is really nice. I have been thinking of a harness for a while now anyway. I think her collar hurts her. She seems very sad when it's on her sometimes. I suspect it's adding to her back pain.
She goes in for a chiropractic adjustment about once a month.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> BTW she still won't eat chicken feet!


Ok so the pressure is on to see if she will take one from me again lmao


----------



## David Winners

You need to eat one yourself to show her it's ok


----------



## Sabis mom

I'm going to try and do video of her reaction to chicken feet!


David Winners said:


> You need to eat one yourself to show her it's ok


Eeww! Lol.


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> I'm going to try and do video of her reaction to chicken feet!
> 
> Eeww! Lol.


That’s something I’d expect from bear.


----------



## Sabis mom

The other day when she fell she scraped her leg. This is what she has now done. So I will wrap it up with some polysporin. She does this a lot. Little witch.


----------



## Sabis mom

More crappy video, but Shadow fell in a hole and I fell of a couple of rocks. No injuries to report, so just entertaining. Lol.


----------



## Rionel

.


----------



## David Winners

Sabis mom said:


> More crappy video, but Shadow fell in a hole and I fell of a couple of rocks. No injuries to report, so just entertaining. Lol.


You guys are both obviously having fun 

That's awesome!


----------



## Sabis mom

David Winners said:


> You guys are both obviously having fun
> 
> That's awesome!


I can think of nothing I would rather do. 
There is a little fat groundhog that lives in there somewhere and Shadow thinks it's grand to sniff at all the spots he digs around.


----------



## Sabis mom

Only 20 degrees outside and we are already having issues. I just tried to take Punk for a walk. She made it 10 feet from the door and just laid down. Stupid high humidity. I was just getting ready to pick her up when she stood up and started walking. Two minute walk, just let her pee and got her back inside. I have the A/C on now, even though it makes me sick. Lol. She was panting like we just went for a run.
I guess walks will be early and late. 
The humidity seems to do her in more then the heat, it was humidity that caused the heat stroke a couple of years ago. I am not at all sure how to handle this. I always let the dogs acclimate, kept the A/C off and provided shade and water, but Shadow seems unable to do that. She has always struggled with heat but it is noticeably worse here where she has to cope with humidity as well. It could be her age as well making it harder for her. And I long suspected that a heart issue could impair her ability to properly regulate her body temp.
She is out cold on the bed now. I will let her sleep and take her out before work when its cooler.


----------



## Saphire

Sabis mom said:


> Only 20 degrees outside and we are already having issues. I just tried to take Punk for a walk. She made it 10 feet from the door and just laid down. Stupid high humidity. I was just getting ready to pick her up when she stood up and started walking. Two minute walk, just let her pee and got her back inside. I have the A/C on now, even though it makes me sick. Lol. She was panting like we just went for a run.
> I guess walks will be early and late.
> The humidity seems to do her in more then the heat, it was humidity that caused the heat stroke a couple of years ago. I am not at all sure how to handle this. I always let the dogs acclimate, kept the A/C off and provided shade and water, but Shadow seems unable to do that. She has always struggled with heat but it is noticeably worse here where she has to cope with humidity as well. It could be her age as well making it harder for her. And I long suspected that a heart issue could impair her ability to properly regulate her body temp.
> She is out cold on the bed now. I will let her sleep and take her out before work when its cooler.


I wonder if a cooling coat would help her


----------



## Sabis mom

Saphire said:


> I wonder if a cooling coat would help her


I could try. Right now it's pretty comfortable outside and she just came back from a fair walk and is panting with her tongue hanging out. We've been back for 15 minutes and she is still puffing.
When she got heat stroke it was cooler then it had been the previous day and it was cloudy but the humidity was ridiculous


----------



## Saphire

This is listed near me as new and size XL. Let me know if you’d like me to grab it for you and bring with next food order.


----------



## Sabis mom

Saphire said:


> This is listed near me as new and size XL. Let me know if you’d like me to grab it for you and bring with next food order.
> 
> 
> View attachment 574162


Sure! I'll try anything once. Lol.


----------



## Sabis mom

Nice weather so took the old girl out for a bit of a hike. She did good but she's wiped out! Sound asleep. She asked to get into her crate so we loaded up and headed home.


----------



## ksotto333

Looking good, Shadow. Nice day.


----------



## Sabis mom

We have been using her old Walkright harness. It doesn't fit her very well and I am not a fan of the way it slips around. When she was younger she could wiggle out of it but she is less steady on her feet now so it works. It has a clip on the back which mostly keeps the rope away from her legs, plus I can grab it to steady her on steep trails. It also seems that she is happier without the collar so I suspect some discomfort in her neck.
A new harness is on the way, as soon as I get out of this horribly expensive motel. 
Thank you @David Winners for the suggestion


----------



## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> Looking good, Shadow. Nice day.


She is holding her own for right now. But she will be 11 this fall, and after last winter I am not optimistic.
For today though, we had a great day with a whole summer to look forward to. I'll take what I can get.


----------



## ksotto333

Sabis mom said:


> She is holding her own for right now. But she will be 11 this fall, and after last winter I am not optimistic.
> For today though, we had a great day with a whole summer to look forward to. I'll take what I can get.


And that's all we can do. Enjoy each day, it's a gift. We're heading to Lake Superior without Tess for the first time in 10 years so the pictures of your walks mean a lot to me. Please give her a treat for me. ♥


----------



## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> And that's all we can do. Enjoy each day, it's a gift. We're heading to Lake Superior without Tess for the first time in 10 years so the pictures of your walks mean a lot to me. Please give her a treat for me. ♥


Big hugs. Tess is always with you. As loyal as these dogs are why would you think something as small as death would keep them from us? She will always be by your side.


----------



## ksotto333

So true, we're also scattering some of her ashes into Superior. She can swim for all time.


----------



## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> So true, we're also scattering some of her ashes into Superior. She can swim for all time.


I love this! When Sabi died I took some of her fur and sent it down the river where we used to play when it was hot out.


----------



## ksotto333

You keep making me cry, but it's ok.


----------



## Sabis mom

ksotto333 said:


> You keep making me cry, but it's ok.


One of the sucky parts about being in this online community is that we are constantly losing someone's dog. While it isn't the same as losing our own, we still grieve and empathize with the owners because we've all been there and know the pain.


----------



## Sabis mom

Day 3 of eating a pound or so a day, in one meal, without a fork! Hope this holds.
Oh and she ate the chicken feet! Lol. Just walked over to the bag one day and said Gimme! She is such a little freak.


----------



## Heartandsoul

I’m wondering if she does these things that perplex you to watch the expressions you make when she does them. Perhaps she is entertained by you. Hahahah.

you know I love Shadow.


----------



## Sabis mom

Heartandsoul said:


> I’m wondering if she does these things that perplex you to watch the expressions you make when she does them. Perhaps she is entertained by you. Hahahah.
> 
> you know I love Shadow.


Maybe. She has a wicked sense of humor. Or maybe she really is an alien dog! 
Or, maybe she is just my little weirdo. Lol.


----------



## Sabis mom

I don't think anyone can really understand how it fills my heart just to watch this dog eat. After years of every single meal being a battle, to watch her ask for her dinner is indescribable. 
To see her clean her dish is awesome.
The fact that I don't need to feed her by hand is a huge plus as well.
She still likes me to sit with her, and still needs my acknowledgment to start eating and praise when she is done. 
She has figured out who delivers her food. A credit to how wicked smart this dog really is. 
This food journey has had its hiccups, but she is stable and doing well.
Raw has brought back the bile puking, and caused wildly inconsistent poops. But we manage. 

People used to tell me that dogs won't starve themselves. I used to get lectures on how I caused her to be "fussy" and if I just "let her be a dog" she would get used to it. All those people were wrong. 

I still believe that the massive worm load as a puppy did irreparable damage to her digestive system. I believe that the fact that I kept her on a quality, limited ingredient kibble was the only reason she was ok as long as she was. Along with the fact that fresh, raw food was always part of her diet. 

I owe a huge debt to this forum. For the training tips that helped me gain ground with an extremely odd dog, for the diet advice that has allowed me to stabilize her health and for all the support and help with everything.

But our adventure continues and the next chapter is right around the corner so stay tuned


----------



## ksotto333

Always looking forward to the next chapter. 🙂


----------



## Rionel

Hat's off to you @Sabis mom! I had to put down my female 13 yr old Collie at the beginning of the month, and It was the hardest ride I've taken in a while. But, I sat in the bed of the truck with Taylor and a branch from a crape myrtle bush from our yard, while my wife drove the truck. She could no longer walk more than a few steps without falling. We knew it was time, but I have had bad dreams since then, and daytime regrets wondering what I could have done better for her. Like so many have said, our dogs give us their all.

Your girl is very pretty and her video reminds me of Taylor, my Collie. It's really heartwarming to see your efforts paying off. Whenever that eventual day comes in the future, you will be able to say you left nothing on the table and did everything possible to give her your best. Did I mention how how pretty she is? You're a a good mama.


----------



## NadDog24

I love Shadow, her quirks nevertheless cease to amaze me. You’ve put your heart and soul into this dog that no one believed would even survive, but you didn’t give up and altered your life to make sure she felt safe and happy. Hats off to you! Can’t wait for the next ‘chapter’


----------



## Sabis mom

I didn't want to love Shadow. She came home just after Sabi was diagnosed with DM. I was seriously in denial and felt like accepting Shadow was somehow admitting that Sabi was dying. I know that's really dumb, but that's how I felt. 
It's why I continued to refer to her as a foster for ages after I knew she wasn't going anywhere. But she is a tough dog not to love. And for all her issues she is a fun dog. She is so weird and wonderful, I wake up every day wondering what she will do or show me next. It's awesome.


----------



## Saphire

She really is the sweetest dog 😍


----------



## Sabis mom

She has been eating like a rockstar for a week now. Not even needing a fork! 
And then yesterday she ate all her food and promptly puked it all back up, on my bed. So gross. Ok so no food for you Punk. I waited and gave her half her meal this morning and half this afternoon, not sure what the issue was. But she did get her monthly flea/tick/heartworm pill yesterday morning, so maybe she wasn't feeling great, or maybe the food was too cold, or maybe its just a Shadow thing.
Still thinking she needs to eat twice a day.


----------



## Dunkirk

Awww, Shadow, sweetheart, I bet she was embarrassed.


----------



## Sabis mom

Dunkirk said:


> Awww, Shadow, sweetheart, I bet she was embarrassed.


She was quite upset. Made more so by me gagging as I cleaned up, lol.


----------



## Sabis mom

What I have settled on is that I will feed her one meal but divided into 3 portions spread over an hour and a half. This because Carmen and @Saphire seem to agree that feeding her twice a day is wasting resources that her body needs.
I will see how this works, but may ultimately need to feed her twice a day as the lesser of two evils. We are back to bile pukes since starting raw, which I have been avoiding with cookies as best I can. This isn't the first time she has tossed her whole meal, I am just usually quicker at getting her outside. Her poop is still entertainingly erratic, and two or three times a day. 
Feeding her with a fork was actually better since it slowed her down and I think some of this is just to much food all at once in her poor tummy.


----------



## Sabis mom

She may be losing her vision, or maybe her mind. Last week she jumped over a shadow on the floor and last night when we stepped from the grass onto the pavement she stopped dead and sort of crouched down and sniffed at the pavement before stepping off the curb. I thought maybe she was just spooked by something but she did it again tonight on our before dinner walk. In a different spot going from the grass to the concrete sidewalk. 
The good news is she uses her nose a lot anyway. 
She also spooked and tried to slip her collar when a van drove by us the other day and blocked the sun for a second.


----------



## Bearshandler

Sabis mom said:


> She may be losing her vision, or maybe her mind. Last week she jumped over a shadow on the floor and last night when we stepped from the grass onto the pavement she stopped dead and sort of crouched down and sniffed at the pavement before stepping off the curb. I thought maybe she was just spooked by something but she did it again tonight on our before dinner walk. In a different spot going from the grass to the concrete sidewalk.
> The good news is she uses her nose a lot anyway.
> She also spooked and tried to slip her collar when a van drove by us the other day and blocked the sun for a second.


How’s she been handling the move?


----------



## Sabis mom

Bearshandler said:


> How’s she been handling the move?


Like the little rock star she is. Honestly? She is probably the best dog I have ever travelled with. The hotel I stopped at on the way here had laminate floors and she was terrified to come in the room so we loaded back up, hit the dollar store and grabbed half a dozen cheap mats with rubber backs. Lol. 
But she settles in the truck, is fine in motel rooms, understands "go pee now" and in general just rolls with whatever. 
I have one more week in quarantine and then she gets to see the ocean!


----------



## Bearshandler

She’ll probably love it


----------



## Sabis mom

I hope she loves it. 
When she was younger if I rearranged the furniture or even moved a chair she had a fit and would freak right out. I think of all the things I have done with her in the last 5 years and I am so proud of her. She has come such a long way.


----------



## ksotto333

Can't wait to see her in the ocean.


----------



## Sabis mom

The bed in this motel is as high as Shadows head. So I lift her on and sometimes off, and can someone tell motels to quit with the white duvets? I have a cheap fleece blanket covering it. Anyway, she got all excited to get a cookie tonight when we got back from our walk and JUMPED onto the bed! I was right there and she barely made it but WOW! That is huge for a dog a few months off a serious injury on her back leg. 
Don't get me wrong, I certainly won't be encouraging a repeat performance. I just couldn't believe she made it! My bed is a platform so fairly low, and bought deliberately with the dog in mind, because I actually hate it but it's good for her.


----------



## Sabis mom

I just found a lump on Shadows ribcage, just under/behind her front leg. A hard lump about the size of a Loonie. I guess we call the vet tomorrow. It feels hard and not soft and detached like a cyst. 
I am not thrilled about this.


----------



## NadDog24

I’ll be praying it’s nothing serious...


----------



## Sabis mom

Still waiting for her appointment on the 20th. But something equally concerning is happening and I am trying to keep her medical stuff in one place. 
A few weeks back, she was waking up and I noticed that her tail was funny. Curled in almost a hook against her thigh area, tight against her leg.
At around the same time I started noticing that when I take her out of her truck crate the base of her tail is all messed up, almost like she is chewing on it but she isn't.and she is holding it in a funny position. 
I'm a bit concerned that this is spinal, and more concerned that along with the jaw stutter there is something neurological going on.


----------



## David Winners

No ideas here. Just wishing you both the very best.


----------



## ksotto333

I'm with David, hoping/wishing all will be well.


----------



## dogfaeries

Yes, hoping for the best.


----------



## dogma13

Hoping for good news on the 20th


----------



## jarn

I hope it's not something serious, though I don't know what it could be.


----------



## Sabis mom

Ok! So no more talk of Shadow getting old or being sick! 
Vet says overall one of the healthiest German Shepherds she has seen in a while. 
Weight is 61.6 lbs. I still think that is too heavy, no one agrees with me. Lump is probably just a cyst and at this time we will not explore further, just continue to monitor. Heart sounds strong. Lungs are clear. Slight thickening in the tendons due to injuries, but no apparent stiffness or loss of range just a bit of weakness. 
Due to mild winters she will stay on the Simparica year round since ticks and Lyme are a big issue here. Without my asking she checked the rabies vax and found it is good for three years at least so declined to give her another, and agreed that given Shadows lifestyle any other vaccines are unnecessary. We do not frequent dog places and she is never allowed to roam at large. If any Lepto will be the only one given and only if the vet sees a spike in cases. She has seen none this year.
No one asked me to get her spayed!
They trimmed her front nails a bit, since she isn't able to wear them down herself and the Dremel does nothing. Tech says her nails are ridiculously hard and very healthy. Shadow was a champ and gave no hassles, just scowled and tried to pull her one foot away one time.
Birthday number 11 is in a week and a bit! Bet your ass we are going to celebrate!

Huge thank you to @David Winners, @Saphire, @GatorBytes and each and every one of you who have helped me research, cheered her on and offered support along the way!


----------



## Saphire

So happy to hear she had a thorough exam and all is well ❤❤❤


----------



## Sabis mom

Saphire said:


> So happy to hear she had a thorough exam and all is well ❤❤❤


We still can't check her teeth, but she said what she could see was not horrible.


----------



## David Winners

Awesome!


----------



## dogma13

So glad to hear this!


----------



## ksotto333

Great news!🎉🐕‍🦺


----------



## NadDog24

Wonderful news!! I’m so happy for you both!


----------



## Sabis mom

She is my delightful little dork. 
While inspecting her newly trimmed nails this evening she apparently found a flaw in the workmanship. So she set about trimming them up herself!. 
She likes to give herself manicures. It's one of her little quirks.


----------

