# Does raw feeding need to be scientific???



## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

I've been feeding raw for 2 months now. My puppy is growing healthy and at a good weight, and my old dog has gained some weight (the vet said he was underweight) and has more energy than before! I've done my research and even figured out a spreadsheet to make sure I have about 5% OM, 50% RMB and 45% MM with everybatch of food I buy. I feed green tripe 1-2 times a week as well as chicken, beef, pork, turkey and canned mackerel and sardines... So I go to my local specialty pet food store to buy some green tripe and premade food to add variety. I get into a conversation with the owner and he tells me it's dangerous to DIY raw for beginners and I might not be getting all the nutrients right then started talking about knowing calcium/phosphorus ratios, protein/fat, etc... I just listened politely, bought my stuff and left. Now I'm wondering if I could be doing damage to my dogs. Do I need to worry about all the nutrients and make a spreadsheet for that? I mean, I could, but is it necessary? 

I'd love to hear from those who have been feeding raw for years. 

And are there some supplements I should include aside from what I'm doing so far? Thanks in advance!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I think you are doing fine from your description. You obviously researched the diet enough to balance portions with MM/OM/RMB's. Fresh(frozen) Tripe has the perfect balance ratio of cal/phos, you could feed that exclusively for several days and have a healthy dog. 
I do supplement with human grade vitamin C daily and E(with mixed tocopherols) every few days, though E can be found in most organ meat and eggs. Are you giving eggs regularly? 
I'd be careful on where the fish you buy is packaged or how it is raised. Farmed raised isn't worth feeding, and I buy nothing packed or raised in China. New Brunswick sardines are from Canada, I usually get that brand if I feed canned fish.


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

How much calcium do they get?
How much vitamin c and how much zinc?
Do you know?

Not intending to be rude just an honest question 


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

how do you feed yourself? don't listen to anyone thst sells dog food. they obviously have an agenda


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> I think you are doing fine from your description. You obviously researched the diet enough to balance portions with MM/OM/RMB's. Fresh(frozen) Tripe has the perfect balance ratio of cal/phos, you could feed that exclusively for several days and have a healthy dog.
> I do supplement with human grade vitamin C daily and E(with mixed tocopherols) every few days, though E can be found in most organ meat and eggs. Are you giving eggs regularly?
> I'd be careful on where the fish you buy is packaged or how it is raised. Farmed raised isn't worth feeding, and I buy nothing packed or raised in China. New Brunswick sardines are from Canada, I usually get that brand if I feed canned fish.


Thanks for the feedback. I give eggs, but not regularly. I will be sure to add a few times a week. I agree about the fish... I don't buy anything that is packaged or a product of China, for me or the dogs! I haven't been brave enough to give raw fish yet. I'm worried about parasites. We have an asian store that has a good selection though.


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

d4mmo said:


> How much calcium do they get?
> How much vitamin c and how much zinc?
> Do you know?
> 
> ...


I don't know. And that's what I'm asking...if it's really necessary to figure it out? (Out of curiosity, I might just do that). Or can I just follow what many call a "balanced raw diet"? 

Most people don't even know if they are getting enough calcium, vit C and zinc in their diets, but follow guidelines for a "balanced diet." I'm wondering if I can just do that with the dogs and be ok.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Those percentages sound off? I'm usually around 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% non liver secreting organ...? Though if your dogs are in good health and check out with a vet, I can't say you're wrong or anything! Sounds like it's working for your dogs. 

As far as I've seen, everything has been accounted for in my dog's prey model raw diet. His blood panels have never come deficient or overloaded with anything. I do throw in a whole raw egg a few days and week. And my dog typically gets coconut oil, a garlic flea/tick preventative, and some goats milk in with his food. Though for raw feeding, you're going to find all kinds of opinions. I would say do what makes you the most comfortable. If you are very worried about it, you could work out the details, or you could get the help of a trusted vet or veterinary nutritionist experienced in balancing homemade diets. Good luck!


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

Pax8 said:


> Those percentages sound off? I'm usually around 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% non liver secreting organ...? Though if your dogs are in good health and check out with a vet, I can't say you're wrong or anything! Sounds like it's working for your dogs.


My percentages end up similar to yours... the RMB % consists of bone and meat... The last batch of food I made came out to 76% MM, 14% bone, and 10% OM.


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## Pax8 (Apr 8, 2014)

Charliehound said:


> My percentages end up similar to yours... the RMB % consists of bone and meat... The last batch of food I made came out to 76% MM, 14% bone, and 10% OM.


Ah! Makes sense.  Yeah, the suggested is typically 10% bone, but mine does better with a slightly higher percentage as well, so he usually ends up at about 15%. So that sounds perfect! Except for a short two month break where I was forced to feed kibble, Kaiju has been on prey model raw since he was 8 weeks old. Just had his one year vet check up and I've been told he is in excellent health. And the vet is astounded at how impeccably clean his teeth are. :wild:


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## I_LOVE_MY_MIKKO (Oct 4, 2006)

The ratio of calcium and phosphorous is important, especially in growing puppies. I would suggest reading a book about raw feeding to understand where all of the vitamins and minerals come from. I'd recommend Monica Segal's K-9 Kitchen. I purchased the e copy and can "control f" to find things easily. It has the NRC nutrient recommendations in it as well as the nutritional analysis of commonly fed meats. You can get the nutritional analysis for other muscle meat and organ meats from the USDA site. I did a spreadsheet based on these two resources and could see where my dog's diet was lacking.

Sure, we don't do all of that for ourselves, but a human diet consists of far more variety and you can eat something if your body is craving it because no one is controlling what you are eating. And you know when you aren't feeling well.

While tripe has an ideal Ca ratio, it is very low in some other nutrients such as potassium and magnesium, so I would not recommend feeding it as a main muscle meat.


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## Packen (Sep 14, 2008)

K.I.S.S.
Raw Feeding Recipes


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## my boy diesel (Mar 9, 2013)

haha i read that site when preparing to do raw here


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

Packen said:


> K.I.S.S.
> Raw Feeding Recipes


That website cracks me up! I stumbled across it when I was looking for "recipes"


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## Charliehound (Jun 5, 2014)

Because I'm new to this, I'm just not super confident about what I'm doing...there are so many opinions out there. And after that store owner talked to me about nutrients I got worried. I guess I want to know if I have to detail out calcium, phosphorus, etc or will we be just fine following the prey model or Raw Dog Ranch's recommendations. I was hoping to hear from others who didn't get all scientific and their dogs are just fine. To be honest, I don't want to see a vet nutritionist or make a complicated spreadsheet... But I do want some reassurance my dogs will be fine if I don't.

And get some ideas of what I'm lacking in their diets...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Monica Segal has a yahoo group K9 Kitchen, maybe join that for more info.


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## Bear L (Feb 9, 2012)

Charliehound said:


> That website cracks me up! I stumbled across it when I was looking for "recipes"


That is hilarious. Take X and hand it to the dog....


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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

Charliehound said:


> I don't know. And that's what I'm asking...if it's really necessary to figure it out? (Out of curiosity, I might just do that). Or can I just follow what many call a "balanced raw diet"?
> 
> Most people don't even know if they are getting enough calcium, vit C and zinc in their diets, but follow guidelines for a "balanced diet." I'm wondering if I can just do that with the dogs and be ok.



The reason I ask is because these are very basic aspects of a diet. 
There is more to a balanced diet than meat/bone/organ ratio.

My opinion??
Give your pups the best commercial food you can afford. Let them grow strong and healthy. Start them on raw in a year time. Don't mess around or experiment with your pup. A german shepherd pup is too valuable to experiment with. 
When they have grown, big and healthy, there joints and growth plates have developed then you can play around with diet.
Plenty of dogs live long healthy lives on kibble, don't be fooled into thinking it is poison
Here is an article on gsd diet by the leading gsd nutritional vet in Australia 
http://www.gsdcv.org.au/sites/default/files/file/Nutrition in Dogs.pdf

Plenty of great info there.

Regards

Paul




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## d4mmo (Mar 27, 2013)

Another about gsd puppy diet
http://www.gsdcv.org.au/sites/default/files/file/Growth and Feeding of Puppies.pdf


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