# How many litters and puppies are ok at one time?



## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

I understand that breeders don't know whether a breeding will take and sometimes will have multiple litters. Really wondering though if there is a consensus here on how many litters/puppies a breeder who is not commercial and does it out of their home can manage without sacrificing the required attention a puppy needs. I see some at home breeders literally have 5 litters on the ground with 30+ puppies at one time with additional litters literally around the corner. I have never been a breeder but I would think that the 3-8 week period of development is pretty critical and wonder how this might affect the puppy's temperament, etc. Do people agree with my thoughts on this? How might it affect the puppy?

I am looking for a puppy and want to make sure I understand if this is an issue so that anyone I look at I put this on my "do not buy from them" list. I think in a perfect world a home breeder might never have more than one or two litters at a time, and don't see why a home breeder would ever put themselves in a position of having 30+ puppies at a time, even with help at the house and if they are doing this full time.

Would really appreciate people's thoughts on this as I am currently looking for a puppy.
Thank you,
Mike


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

This really depends on the specific person, but I would expect a breeder with no staff to have no more than 2 litters at a time. This says nothing of the quality of the breeder, though.

I'd suggest searching the forum about breeders, here's a thread on what to look for in a breeder: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

Thanks Dracovich! I found that thread with links and printed out around 30 pages already from this site and links from here - have enjoyed the reading with lots of good info. Really appreciate your opinion re: 2 litters at a time and understand that you can't make a judgment on the quality of the breeder based on that. I am curious how a puppy could be affected for not enough attention and socialization before 8 weeks if they are brought into a home as a family pet. I would think it would but don't know. Thanks again!
Mike


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

I once raised a foster litter in my home: 10 pups with the mother dog. I raised them the way I think breeders should for pet dogs. No way would I have been able to do two litters at a time. My life was on hold for the entire time but they turned out to be nice social dogs. In the past I have purchased a pup from someone who had two litters at the same time but she had a lot of help and I studied the situation carefully before committing. As far as I know Deja's breeder doesn't breed another litter until all pups are sold. I prefer that concept.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

They can't control when a dog comes in heat. Is it preferable for small breeders? Of course not. It's a TON of work and most breeders would struggle to find a spot for two mothers and pups. But...that does not speak of how they are as breeders.

Now...30 pups with more on the way? That's a big breeding operation.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

No they can't control that part, but they can control how many females they breed at a time. I'd expect multi litter breeders to have staff or be 'family run', not just one person handling all the puppies. Generally reputable breeders are not breeding back to back, which means they can alternate which females are to be bred


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

MikeMac said:


> Thanks Dracovich! I found that thread with links and printed out around 30 pages already from this site and links from here - have enjoyed the reading with lots of good info. Really appreciate your opinion re: 2 litters at a time and understand that you can't make a judgment on the quality of the breeder based on that. I am curious how a puppy could be affected for not enough attention and socialization before 8 weeks if they are brought into a home as a family pet. I would think it would but don't know. Thanks again!
> Mike


That first 8 weeks is crucial imprinting time. While the breeder is important! Always! So is the mother. So is keeping the puppy with the other puppies until 8 weeks. The imprinting they get from the mother and siblings is invaluable.

A good breeder is going to expose them to the environment. The woods, car rides, different surfaces, different noises. They are going to test their puppies to make sure the drives and temperaments are suitable to the person.

Then you have the individual breeding. You can't discount genetics in drive and temperament. It is NOT all in how you raise them. 

Again...30 puppies? And more on the way? That's a big operation. I would be concerned about that and ask many questions. Are the mothers and puppies in homes? Or in kennels? How are the puppies socialized? What kind of training/titling/health testing do they do? Personally, I wouldn't look at these breeders much unless I knew the breeding stock personally.

There are lots of good breeders. Maybe start a new thread asking for recommendations? and describing what you are looking for?


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Like Wolfy said, two is a lot for someone to handle. If you think about the way puppy mills are run the biggest issue, aside from lack of caring, is that there's just too many dogs for humane treatment. In rescue though I've seen terrible breeders who can't even handle ONE litter. And the issue goes beyond just general care such as feeding and cleaning, if they don't do the proper 'socialization' before going to new owners a pup can end up with all sorts of behavioral issues.

You can search this forum for what makes a breeder a reputable one, here is a thread about what to look for in a breeder: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Personally - even when I was physically not compromised - I would never have have wanted to have 2 litters at the same time....it would be hard even if one was new born and the other 8 weeks old....especially if you worked at a real job.....but there are people who do not have jobs, who say they are not commercial and they have 5-10 litters a year and even without a job, it has to be nuts to be able to spend time with the puppies and take care of them....I have always had one at a time and it means that you chose which females are going to be bred....I have gone for long periods with no litters because I would not chance breeding 2 females of similar ages in a close time period...Unless you have a very secure professional set up with whelping houses/pens, it is just not the best or safest situation.

But there are many out there who have puppies very often...was surprised to see one breeder whose name I rarely see in results in the GSD IPO magazine was on their 84th or 85th litter in a little more than 12 years!!!!!!!!!! I can't imagine that - they must have staff and a big facility and not be particularly discerning as to where the pups go.....

Lee


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

I really appreciate everyone's help with this. Really glad I found this site and will definitely add to my list of requirements one litter at a time. Sounds like it could be done with more but why take the chance as I am bringing a pup into my home with my family and don't want any behavioral or other issues that could be avoided. Thank you again to all of you.
Mike


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*I removed some posts with back and forth personal bickering. There was some good content in the posts, but it was deleted along with the nonsense. Oh well. Maybe people will think about what they write next time. 

BTW, if you feel attacked, send a notification and we will take care of it. Far better than us having to come in here and delete and edit a whole bunch of back and forth bickering. That just ends up with everyone in trouble and not just the original poster. 

ADMIN Lisa*


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I'm with you Lee. I find having 1 litter a year exhausting. Of course I am doing more than just whelping puppies and selling puppies. I train and trial my females, work puppies and tend to keep back 1 or two from my litters to either sell later or to keep for myself. Who the heck has time to do all that and raise a litter per month? Like Lee, though, I am also single. Might be easier to do a couple per year if I had family to help or experienced co-owner who enjoyed this stuff too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

2 litters isn't that hard. You have to have the space and the right set up. And if you are unemployed, or under-employed, it is easier. Litters are unpredictable. you can have one litter of 12 and how is that different from having 2 litters of six? You have the same number of tiny toe-nails to clip. But it is easier if some of the puppies' needs are different. For the first couple of weeks, all you need to do is clean the box, and weight the puppies and check/replace rick-rack, cut toenails, maybe. 3-4 weeks clean up, space, feeding increases, toys are introduced, and you can begin to mark temperaments, still lots of toe-nail clipping. 5-6 weeks, lots of clean-up, toys, play, switching up the environment helps at this point, and letting people come in to see the puppies/play with the puppies. 7-8 weeks, watching personalities develop, play, clean up, working with new owners, paperwork, first vet visit/shots. 

A lot of ways 1 litter of 12 is harder than 2 litters of 6. Taking 6 puppies to the vet -- no sweat, 12 means finding some way to transport the lot of them, having help to bring them in, keeping track of who is largest -- that's who they weigh to figure out wormer, and who has been through the vet check, doing the boys first, then the girls, and keeping track of which collar colors have been done. Then back to the vehicle. Believe me, 6 is easier. 

Really, temperament is genetic. If you have crappy temperament, then the more things you skillfully expose the puppies to in the relative safety of their dam and litter, the better the individuals will be. If your temperament is fine, then you don't have to pay as much attention to ensuring all these socializations and exposures have happened. 

Just because a bitch is in heat, and is bred, does not mean there will be puppies. Sometimes breeders will breed more than one bitch in hopes of getting one litter, and whoo-hoo, the puppy-fairy came and brought a litter to both bitches. If you are going to be a breeder, you have to be flexible, and sometimes you have to manage a litter of 12, and sometimes, you manage two litters at about the same time. And you have to know your capabilities and plan accordingly. If you are working and do not feel you can manage two litters, but you aren't sure to get a litter out of a new bitch, then you choose, one or the other. 

The thing is, it is highly individual what people can manage. Some kids can take their final two years of high school at the same time, with honor or merit roll grades while others have trouble managing one year. Some can work full time and go to college full time and make the dean's list or get a departmental scholarship, while others flunk out of college when they aren't even working. Some people can work two jobs, or run a small business when they are working full-time, and others can barely hold down a job. Some can titles six dogs in a year, and others can't do 1 in 2 years. People have different skill sets, different energy levels, different intelligence levels, different priorities, and different drives. We are certainly much more complex than our dogs, but we seem to want to put a number on everything.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> Personally - even when I was physically not compromised - I would never have have wanted to have 2 litters at the same time....it would be hard even if one was new born and the other 8 weeks old....especially if you worked at a real job.....but there are people who do not have jobs, who say they are not commercial and they have 5-10 litters a year and even without a job, it has to be nuts to be able to spend time with the puppies and take care of them....I have always had one at a time and it means that you chose which females are going to be bred....I have gone for long periods with no litters because I would not chance breeding 2 females of similar ages in a close time period...Unless you have a very secure professional set up with whelping houses/pens, it is just not the best or safest situation.
> 
> But there are many out there who have puppies very often...was surprised to see one breeder whose name I rarely see in results in the GSD IPO magazine was on their 84th or 85th litter in a little more than 12 years!!!!!!!!!! I can't imagine that - they must have staff and a big facility and not be particularly discerning as to where the pups go.....
> 
> Lee





lhczth said:


> I'm with you Lee. I find having 1 litter a year exhausting. Of course I am doing more than just whelping puppies and selling puppies. I train and trial my females, work puppies and tend to keep back 1 or two from my litters to either sell later or to keep for myself. Who the heck has time to do all that and raise a litter per month? Like Lee, though, I am also single. Might be easier to do a couple per year if I had family to help or experienced co-owner who enjoyed this stuff too.




I don't have a ton of experience, but I'm with you ladies. My 'A' litter exhausted me. I couldn't imagine two litters at once. I also don't ever want a huge litter lol. Now I work a lot of hours at my day to day job, and my wife also works. Our benefit, is that I work days and she works nights. So someone was always home with the puppies. As others mentioned, we did a lot more than just throw them in a kennel and watch them grow up. We worked with every puppy individually in some fashion every day. That was a lot of work! All the cleaning and laundry, and cleaning and laundry then cleaning and laundry, did I mention cleaning? Not to mention the non stop phone calls, emails and everything talking with potential buyers. Kimber just went into heat yesterday, and I'm cringing at the thought I only have six more months or so before I was going to breed her again.


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

I have never bred dogs and can't imagine the work involved and so appreciate all the breeders and others who helped me better understand. 

I just joined this site and am so glad that I found it but would like to ask a question about the board rules that kind of confuses me. Everyone is voluntary taking the time to help people like me and others who are looking to find the right puppy but the rules say that nothing negative could be said about a breeder. I have been searching through the threads and got some names of breeders that are repeatedly recommended on here but am kind of concerned that it is not permitted to say anything that is negative. One of the breeders that isn't too far from me gets lots of great reviews on here and they are the breeder that appears to have too many puppies to be properly managed (by my count from their site it is over 30 from 5 litters in 2 months). I am sure there is a good reason for not being able to say anything negative but would appreciate someone filling me in. 

Maybe after I have enough posts so that I could PM I could ask some of you privately about some of the breeders I found on here. Really looking for a medium drive dog for a family pet. I had 2 german shepherds that are in heaven waiting for me and both of them had great temperaments and were perfect for me. The breeder was someone who lived near me (I use to live in Pennsylvania) and unfortunately he got sick not long after I got my dogs from him and he can't do it anymore. Thanks for all of the help all!
Mike


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

lhczth said:


> *I removed some posts with back and forth personal bickering. There was some good content in the posts, but it was deleted along with the nonsense. Oh well. Maybe people will think about what they write next time.
> 
> BTW, if you feel attacked, send a notification and we will take care of it. Far better than us having to come in here and delete and edit a whole bunch of back and forth bickering. That just ends up with everyone in trouble and not just the original poster.
> 
> ADMIN Lisa*


Ihczth - I am sorry if I caused any problem.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

MikeMac said:


> I have never bred dogs and can't imagine the work involved and so appreciate all the breeders and others who helped me better understand.
> 
> I just joined this site and am so glad that I found it but would like to ask a question about the board rules that kind of confuses me. Everyone is voluntary taking the time to help people like me and others who are looking to find the right puppy but the rules say that nothing negative could be said about a breeder. I have been searching through the threads and got some names of breeders that are repeatedly recommended on here but am kind of concerned that it is not permitted to say anything that is negative. One of the breeders that isn't too far from me gets lots of great reviews on here and they are the breeder that appears to have too many puppies to be properly managed (by my count from their site it is over 30 from 5 litters in 2 months). I am sure there is a good reason for not being able to say anything negative but would appreciate someone filling me in.
> 
> ...


The forum does not want to be a place for buyer/seller disputes. The forum cannot investigate, either side of the story, and to accept one side as gospel, and the other side might not even be aware they are being smeared, well, it isn't the place for it. 

Now, if there is a news story about someone getting raided, I think then it becomes a matter of record. Not sure about that, but we did a lot of talking about one breeder from Texas. And the other fellow from Indiana did get his dogs back because there was nothing wrong with him. 

Evenso, in the end you have to make up your own decision. What is important to others may be less so or more so to you. Buyers may have never been to a breeder before, and they see some lumps in the kennel and OMG!!! Grass cuttings in the water bowl -- awful!!! And you may have written off a decent breeder with excellent puppies because a novice buyer felt something was "off." So sure ask and listen and look. But it might be best to find some shepherds that impress you, and ask those people where they got them from, and if they are willing to talk, ask them about the breeder.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

I think the best advice I could give anyone in regards to finding the breeder that is right for them is to get out there and go to clubs and see a wide variety of dogs. If you are looking for a WL dog, see them do some sort of work, even if you will not be doing that kind of work yourself. Talk to the owners about what their dog is like on the field, and what their dog is like at home. Ask if they are clear headed. Ask if they are environmentally stable. Ask if they are reactive. Ask what people think of the breeders they have gotten their dogs from. If the experience was good, and you like their dog, it is probably worth checking out that breeder. If you are looking for a SL dog, go to shows, and/or a GSD club so you can see how dogs handle stress, new people, and being in a different environment than the breeder's or owner's home. Any dog can be solid in their home, where they feel comfortable. You want to see that translate to areas away from home as well.


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

GypsyGhost said:


> I think the best advice I could give anyone in regards to finding the breeder that is right for them is to get out there and go to clubs and see a wide variety of dogs. If you are looking for a WL dog, see them do some sort of work, even if you will not be doing that kind of work yourself. Talk to the owners about what their dog is like on the field, and what their dog is like at home. Ask if they are clear headed. Ask if they are environmentally stable. Ask if they are reactive. Ask what people think of the breeders they have gotten their dogs from. If the experience was good, and you like their dog, it is probably worth checking out that breeder. If you are looking for a SL dog, go to shows, and/or a GSD club so you can see how dogs handle stress, new people, and being in a different environment than the breeder's or owner's home. Any dog can be solid in their home, where they feel comfortable. You want to see that translate to areas away from home as well.


Great advice Gypsy Ghost - thank you! I love the look of some of the mostly black working lines but assumed (maybe wrong) that they will typically be higher drive and more difficult as a pet with kids around. For that reason was thinking show lines. Really appreciate your advice!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

MikeMac said:


> I have never bred dogs and can't imagine the work involved and so appreciate all the breeders and others who helped me better understand.
> 
> I just joined this site and am so glad that I found it but would like to ask a question about the board rules that kind of confuses me. Everyone is voluntary taking the time to help people like me and others who are looking to find the right puppy but the rules say that nothing negative could be said about a breeder. I have been searching through the threads and got some names of breeders that are repeatedly recommended on here but am kind of concerned that it is not permitted to say anything that is negative. One of the breeders that isn't too far from me gets lots of great reviews on here and they are the breeder that appears to have too many puppies to be properly managed (by my count from their site it is over 30 from 5 litters in 2 months). I am sure there is a good reason for not being able to say anything negative but would appreciate someone filling me in.
> 
> ...



You have to take references with a grain of salt....look at the experience of the person giving the reference - so many are pet owners with their first dog and they love the dog and are convinced that they got the best dog in the world. Many fall in love with a website breeder and have never even talked to the breeder.

Personally, I only give a reference to a breeder or litter where I personally know the dogs, close connections of the dog or the people....I sent a local person to a breeder in Texas a few months ago for a black and red puppy because I have talked to the breeder who helped me do a shipped semen breeding and know her breeding and show record. I have often recommended a breeder who has "my lines" and state why I recommend her very specifically for the poster and how the litter will fit their needs.

Working lines that are bred for balance can certainly be great companion dogs....I have had working line dogs as house dogs and beloved companions for 17 years. My friend Marsha, some of whose dogs come from one of my females, also has companion dogs who are working lines. Hers are therapy dogs, have AKC titles and have produced IPO titled dogs who are also good companion dogs.

I am in Pittsburgh by the way.....who did you get your dogs from here??

Lee


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

MikeMac said:


> Great advice Gypsy Ghost - thank you! I love the look of some of the mostly black working lines but assumed (maybe wrong) that they will typically be higher drive and more difficult as a pet with kids around. For that reason was thinking show lines. Really appreciate your advice!


No problem! I really think you can find a nice pet in any of the lines, as long as you find a good breeder who understands their dogs, and what a pairing will likely produce. A good breeder (from any line) should be able to match the right puppy with the right potential owner. No matter which line you go with, they are going to need training and a lot of exercise. Best of luck to you with your search!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

GypsyGhost said:


> I think the best advice I could give anyone in regards to finding the breeder that is right for them is to get out there and go to clubs and see a wide variety of dogs. If you are looking for a WL dog, see them do some sort of work, even if you will not be doing that kind of work yourself. Talk to the owners about what their dog is like on the field, and what their dog is like at home. Ask if they are clear headed. Ask if they are environmentally stable. Ask if they are reactive. Ask what people think of the breeders they have gotten their dogs from. If the experience was good, and you like their dog, it is probably worth checking out that breeder. If you are looking for a SL dog, go to shows, and/or a GSD club so you can see how dogs handle stress, new people, and being in a different environment than the breeder's or owner's home. Any dog can be solid in their home, where they feel comfortable. You want to see that translate to areas away from home as well.


I agree with all of this, with the caveat that I did none of it! We've had GSDs since 1986, but Halo was our first WL shepherd. She was all the way across the country from us, and we relied on the breeder and her reputation, as well as people I "knew" from this and other GSD forums, who actually knew (in person) the breeder, had trained with her, and had actually met Halo as a young puppy, and thought she'd be a great fit for us. They were right. 

While Halo was challenging as a youngster, I was lucky to have had great local resources for training and the stubbornness and diligence to put in major time and effort from the very beginning. She has matured into a fantastic dog, but admittedly I knew little about her pedigree and WL dogs in general when we decided to get her.


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## GypsyGhost (Dec 29, 2014)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> I agree with all of this, with the caveat that I did none of it! We've had GSDs since 1986, but Halo was our first WL shepherd. She was all the way across the country from us, and we relied on the breeder and her reputation, as well as people I "knew" from this and other GSD forums, who actually knew (in person) the breeder, had trained with her, and had actually met Halo as a young puppy, and thought she'd be a great fit for us. They were right.
> 
> While Halo was challenging as a youngster, I was lucky to have had great local resources for training and the stubbornness and diligence to put in major time and effort from the very beginning. She has matured into a fantastic dog, but admittedly I knew little about her pedigree and WL dogs in general when we decided to get her.


I absolutely agree that if you know and trust experienced GSD people who recommend a breeder a great distance away from you, that can change things. Like @wolfstraum mentioned in her post, you have to know where your recommendations are coming from.


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

selzer said:


> The forum does not want to be a place for buyer/seller disputes. The forum cannot investigate, either side of the story, and to accept one side as gospel, and the other side might not even be aware they are being smeared, well, it isn't the place for it.
> 
> Now, if there is a news story about someone getting raided, I think then it becomes a matter of record. Not sure about that, but we did a lot of talking about one breeder from Texas. And the other fellow from Indiana did get his dogs back because there was nothing wrong with him.
> 
> Evenso, in the end you have to make up your own decision. What is important to others may be less so or more so to you. Buyers may have never been to a breeder before, and they see some lumps in the kennel and OMG!!! Grass cuttings in the water bowl -- awful!!! And you may have written off a decent breeder with excellent puppies because a novice buyer felt something was "off." So sure ask and listen and look. But it might be best to find some shepherds that impress you, and ask those people where they got them from, and if they are willing to talk, ask them about the breeder.


Selzer - makes good sense. Thank you for explaining!
Mike


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

interesting topic .

there is a good kennel producing some good pups, often , rightly so , recommended on this forum.

twice this month , once by a friend , and another time from someone asking me to recommend someone else because they felt there were too many litters in a row.

the friend said a poop load of litters . I looked and there were quite a few. litters current and upcoming.

when litters are born within days or weeks of each other you start to loose that sense of the individuality that each pup has . They tend to merge in the mind.
It becomes a lot of work just to meet the physical demands . Remember you aren't just dealing with the pups , you have to meet people , listen carefully to understand their needs , spend time to counsel them on feeding , training , make decisons if they are appropriate for what you have.

I find sometimes it might take a year or two to fool around and strategize breeding partners .
Go look at relatives and get the big data on things that matter in breedng decisions.

then you do the breeding and you need to sit back and observe the results . Were expectations met in the progeny .
Was the sire and his ancestry a good choice for your female.

That is luxury time -- but it is critical. 

you can't turn it over to a commercial transaction . 

I find one to two per year is enough .


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## MikeMac (Apr 6, 2017)

wolfstraum said:


> You have to take references with a grain of salt....look at the experience of the person giving the reference - so many are pet owners with their first dog and they love the dog and are convinced that they got the best dog in the world. Many fall in love with a website breeder and have never even talked to the breeder.
> 
> Personally, I only give a reference to a breeder or litter where I personally know the dogs, close connections of the dog or the people....I sent a local person to a breeder in Texas a few months ago for a black and red puppy because I have talked to the breeder who helped me do a shipped semen breeding and know her breeding and show record. I have often recommended a breeder who has "my lines" and state why I recommend her very specifically for the poster and how the litter will fit their needs.
> 
> ...


Thanks Lee and great advice! His name was Tom McNally and he was in Willow Grove. My last contact with him was in the late 90s. I really don't know how active a breeder he was, I believe it was more of a hobby for him. I moved to GA in 2002 and lost touch. I tried calling him and the number I had was disconnected and couldn't find him online (probably around 70 years old now). Thanks again!
Mike


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

MikeMac said:


> Thanks Lee and great advice! His name was Tom McNally and he was in Willow Grove. My last contact with him was in the late 90s. I really don't know how active a breeder he was, I believe it was more of a hobby for him. I moved to GA in 2002 and lost touch. I tried calling him and the number I had was disconnected and couldn't find him online (probably around 70 years old now). Thanks again!
> Mike



Willow Grove - out by Philly????? Don't know him.....


Lee


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

@MikeMac, one more item to throw out there for consideration - 

Diet and feeding. There are *so many* posters here who have expensive, stressful and time-consuming struggles with their dogs' allergies and food intolerances. Ask how your breeder feeds his/her dogs, perhaps also ask what their other (former) puppy buyers feed. Don't be put off if strong opinions come up (especially about raw feeding) - but do ask questions! 

If your future dog has a healthy, rock solid digestive system, you'll have many dietary choices and can save yourself some major headaches. My comment here is not aimed at anyone in particular, I'd recommend it to anyone.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

MikeMac said:


> Ihczth - I am sorry if I caused any problem.


Not you. You did absolutely nothing wrong. Some people just can't seem to avoid being rude to others.  Just the nature of message boards.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

carmspack said:


> interesting topic .
> 
> there is a good kennel producing some good pups, often , rightly so , recommended on this forum.
> 
> ...


1-2 is plenty to keep you busy, especially the people end of it. But I wouldn't be put off if a breeder bred 3 or even 4 in 12 months. It is individual what people can manage, and with repeat litters, and repeat customers, and if you are very familiar with your lines, you do not need to keep on or more back out of each litter to grow up some and monitor personally. I think I had 3 one year -- that last one was a singleton, and I was working with another breeder who had decades more experience than I did. Evenso, I think I am more comfortable with 1-2. 

Of course 1 litter pays for food, 
And 1 litter pays for the vet, 
The third litter would cover mileage, shows, training, grooming, and miscellaneous expenses/supplies. 
By litter 4 you may be able to make capitol improvements to your set up, LOL. 

This is why the only way to become a millionaire with dogs is to start out as a billionaire. 

Also, some very good breeders co-own bitches, or help breeders who have used their stud sell their litter, hopefully if they approve of the bitch and the mating. So, a breeder may be involved with, or helping to sell 4 or 5 litters but only have one on the ground.


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