# Help me understand please



## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

I'm a new member to the forum, and this is my first post. I'm posting this hoping that someone here can help me understand something bad that happened with a new dog. 

First, I've been round German Shepherds my whole life. I've raised them, lived with them, trusted them as devoted familily pets. I am not new to the breed. 

One of my dogs is dying with a live problem, and my wife is recently diagnosed with a serious illness, so we decided to get another dog so there would be some overlap when the older one passes away. 

We had the opportunity to take a 3 year old male, AKC registered and bred by a very highly regarded world-class Schutzhund breeder in Nashville TN. The dog had spend the past year learning tracking, and not Schutzhund. I really don't know his training history prior to that. 

We had the dog for a week, and he was wonderful, a virtual angel. He obeyed perfectly, and got along with the other 2 dogs (Labradors) great. He was close, affectionate, he slept in the house next to my bed. Everthing was going great.

Then last Sunday, late in the evening, as we were going to bed, he was sitting next to my chair. My wife scooted over on the couch closer to my chair to show me a picture of him on her phone. And Bam! without warning, without a sound, in complete silence, the dog attacked her. I didn't even realize what had happened at first, and she didn't either. After she yelled, he let go, and then went in again to her leg. I yelled, threw the big recliner, yelling "no" and he let go, I got my pistol, and tried to get a shot at it. It ran away and hid in the bedroom, my wife screaming at me not to shoot it. So I locked it in the bedroom, then proceeded to wrap my wife's leg with paper towels and lots of duct tape to get the guts back in her leg and stop the voracious bleeding. 

My wife is recovering, and we don't think she will lose her leg. I immediately took the dog away to a kennel when I got back from the hospital the next day. 

Of course we are both just in agony, physical and mental, not understanding what went wrong. We loved the dog. He was sweet and perfect, never a single growl or hint of aggression the whole time he was with us. No history from the previous owner, and I can only just assume the breeder would never have released a dog with an agression problem. 

This dog turned for no apparent reason, no warning, not a sound, and tried to bite off the leg of the woman that fed it. Does anyone have any idea what went wrong? Is it just simply true that the old wives tale about never being able to trust a German Shepherd is true? 

The dog will never come back here, it's simply too dangerous. But we would like to have some understanding of what happened, if there is any. 

Thanks in advance for reading through my story. 

Garret


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

my first reaction. is your wife pregnant?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Did you get the dog from the breeder or another party? If you aren't certain what type of training the dog has previously have, there is really no way to understand what was going on in the dogs head. Who has him now? 
I'm sorry your wife was injured by him. 
Curious to know the dogs pedigree.


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## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> my first reaction. is your wife pregnant?


Absolutely not pregnant. Why would that matter?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

The dog tried to protect you from your wife. She, probably, has approached you too quickly and inclined towards you - he read it as a threat to you. That fact that she fed him - doesn't mean much, many people think that their dogs should love them only because they are feeding them. Providing food is not the same as feeding treats for being obedient.
Schutzhund semi-trained dogs may bite people if these people remind them the decoy by certain behaviour, and in situations which remind the club sessions. Mainly they bite outdoor, some kids running with the sticks or something similar. In any case, Schutzhund dogs rarely show agression because they they are trained to play and expose positive emotions only. A Shutzhund dog is trained to bite the left arm and nothing else. A different story with a dog trained in Personal Protection. These dogs are trained to protect their owner from the person who can really harm the master, they should also recognise situations in which the harm could be done. They are trained to attack different body parts. And, they are trained tracking, because criminals tend to escape leaving the injured owner on the ground.
I think your dog was a PP trained dog, was meant to be sold as a PP dog, but they sold him to you. The trouble is - very few of PP dogs can make pets, unless they grew up in the family the members of which they were meant to protect.
Nothing wrong with the dog. But you can open a case against those who sold you a semi-trained dog in PP. He definitely was trained to attack in certain situations.


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## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> Did you get the dog from the breeder or another party? ....


I acquired it from a trainer who had purchased it from the breeder. The breeder is a very well respected breeder and this he has a world-class pedigree. 

As I understand, both the breeder and the trainer whom I got him from trained him for tracking, and not Schutzhund. He certainly enjoyed tracking everything he could when we went on hikes. He and my other dogs went out on several outings, and he was perfect with me, them and everyone we met. I even stepped on his foot once by accident on the trail and he was not aggressive, just yelped.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

scottgs said:


> Absolutely not pregnant. Why would that matter?


I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be intrusive :C

In my experience, pregnancy can sometimes cause a person to smell differently to a dog. And I just thought that if this was the case, maybe the dog saw her as a 'stranger' and reacted this way. I've seen dogs behave strangely to an owner who has recently become pregnant.

I didn't mean to offend you.

I'm sorry you and your wife went through this and I hope your wife recovers quickly...you are in our prayers.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

I am so sorry this happened. It's impossible for any of us to tell you why the dog suddenly attacked. 

I hope you will return the dog to the breeder and I hope the breeder will do right by the dog.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

BowWowMeow said:


> I am so sorry this happened. It's impossible for any of us to tell you why the dog suddenly attacked.
> 
> I hope you will return the dog to the breeder and I hope the breeder will do right by the dog.


+1

I am very sorry you had to go through this, and I completely understand the impulse to search for answers.

But there's nothing any of us can tell you with any degree of responsibility or reliability over the Internet. Not in a case like this.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> I acquired it from a trainer who had purchased it from the breeder.


PP dogs are purchased, trained and sold. Sometimes a trainer decides that the dog is not really suitable for PP, they are or too nervous, too shy, too agressive, or become too much attached to the environment they were trained in, but the training and keeping him costs. Some dogs are left with a broken spirit, bearing a terrible psychological damage while they are still puppies, some PP trainers use very cruel methods in training. Nontheless, go for the next dog, the trainer wouldn't waste his time. The best fate these dogs may face - they guard some industrial buildings at night, the worst - they end in a rescue centre.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

Merciel said:


> +1
> 
> I am very sorry you had to go through this, and I completely understand the impulse to search for answers.
> 
> But there's nothing any of us can tell you with any degree of responsibility or reliability over the Internet. Not in a case like this.


+2

This is heartbreaking. How is your wife's leg?


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> +2
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking. How is your wife's leg?



+3.

I'm also wondering if the dog was trained in tracking only vs protection because they had some inkling that he was unstable.

And no, this has NOTHING to do with the breed, so don't let it ruin the breed you love. This sort of thing has unfortunately happened with many breeds (I was attacked in a similar way by a golden retriever). As others have said, there's absolutely nothing we can tell you about the event other than how horribly sorry we are  


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

No offence taken at all. I was just wondering if pregnancy happened to be a known cause for aggressive behaviour. I had never heard of it before, however I certainly have observed dogs notice changes in a persons smell or body chemistry. No doubt they can detect things that humans wouldn't. 

Regardless, thanks for the idea I would like to understand what went wrong, if possible. 

Thank you also for the prayers. My wife is doing well right now, all things considered. 



Zeeva said:


> I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be intrusive :C
> 
> In my experience, pregnancy can sometimes cause a person to smell differently to a dog. And I just thought that if this was the case, maybe the dog saw her as a 'stranger' and reacted this way. I've seen dogs behave strangely to an owner who has recently become pregnant.
> 
> ...


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## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the kind words, wishes and prayers. 

My wife is doing well, all things considered. It is a kind of double whammy, as she loved the dog too, and has cried a lot over him. It's just extra sad as this was all supposed to help cheer her up in the first place. 

I realize there is probably no answer, that only the dog can truly know, and then he may not understand what he did either. He did realize something was badly wrong, as he was still nervous and somewhat distant when I took him away the next day, although he still obeyed perfectly, as always. When we parted he definitely didn't want me to leave him. I hugged him and told him he was a good dog. I never got mad at him or punished him in any way, other than during the mayem when the attack occured.

Garret


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

From my experience, when I took on a rescue GSD, he was a lovely boy and I wish I could of kept him, but my Lola (GSD female) hated him. But I had him for a week and the first 5 to 6 days he was very passive, I am told many rescues are like this in the beginning as they are trying to work out their rank calmly in the pack. They will then establish where they think their rank is, this may involve fighting. 

Its a shame this happened to your wife, I hope she will recover from her injuries well and won't be frightened of the breed. When I read your story I immediately thought this dog has decided it is time to establish where he fits in and in his mind he was fighting for rank just below you and above your wife - totally inappropriate.


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## zyppi (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm guessing trainer didn't tell you everything, which is unconscionable, if true.

I just cannot imagine that this dog hadn't shown other signs of instability before you took him in.

Call the breeder.

Also, hope you told whoever took him.

IMO, he's a loaded gun and it probably has nothing to do with training, but everything to do with temperament.

Not at all typical of the breed.

Sorry it happened to you.


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## Harry and Lola (Oct 26, 2013)

scottgs said:


> I certainly have observed dogs notice changes in a persons smell or body chemistry. No doubt they can detect things that humans wouldn't.


Yes this is very interesting, dogs are very intuitive and use that 'psychic' sense that most of the human population does not, dogs also don't tolerate weakness in the pack - I wonder if he sensed your wife is ill and being genetically wired, tried to banish her from the pack?


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## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

Just an update. The doctor today said he's very happy with how her leg is healing. The swelling is going down, and some of the stiches might be able to come out next week. She's able to walk on it a little bit now, which is a good thing, and there's negligible loss of feeling. 

We appreciate all of the thoughts and prayers.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I hope she continues on a good path to recovery. I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers still. Thanks for updating, I'm sure it is very difficult for you both going thru this.


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## lorihd (Nov 30, 2011)

glad your wife is healing, poor dear, must be devastated. so very very sad


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

I was thinking about you guys today...glad you updated and hope the progress continues smoothly... <3

I know it's likely early to consider this, and I pray I don't sound callous? Would you guys consider getting another dog? I don't think I could after something like this...

Have you had dogs in the past? 

Do you think occurrences like this are rare? 

Please keep us posted about your wife.


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## blueangele (Aug 5, 2013)

I am just curious, but what are you going to do with the dog? Are you going to have him PTS or give him back to the trainer? I feel horrible for your wife and I hope that she recovers fully!


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## scottgs (Apr 20, 2014)

We have two other dogs (Labradors), both of which were in the room when the attack happened, though they were about asleep, as we all about were, it was 1100 PM when it happened. One of our dogs is dying from a liver problem, which is why we got the new dog in the first place. Well that, and he was a birthday present for my wife. Believe it or not.

We'll still get a new dog, but will hold off for a while until we all recover. We both grew up with German Shepherds, and have had several more since we've been married, so we're familiar with the breed, and this won't stop of from getting another. 

Althouth this hasn't scared us off, we will definitely approach any new dog with great caution now, no matter what the breed, pedigree or references. I hate to say it, but a lesson learned is to not have complete faith in any dog until we grow to know it, no matter who the breeder or trainer is, and no matter what thier reputation may be. I also believe we will probably only raise a puppy now, just to improve the odds. 

I've returned the dog to the trainer I acquired him from, which I did immediately after I got back from the hospital after the attack. It's such a shame too, as this was a nearly perfect dog. He was great with our other dogs and other people. We hiked together, we all rode in the truck together, all piled on top of one another. We all went in the pet stores, met the neighbors, played ball, went to dog parks, everyone loved him, petted him, he was always calm and everything was just perfect. No signs of aggression, no barking, growling, nothing at all to be concerned with. He was affectionate, happy, polite, smiley, just perfect until that night. And even then, during the attack, he was quiet; nothing but deliberate biting and tugging. 

My wife is doing much better, we can definitely see some healing now. Thanks again for the thoughts and concern.


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## Ellimaybel (Mar 16, 2014)

I may be corny but I cried during this story. Not just for the injuries to your wife (who I am very happy to hear is doing well) but everything. The circumstances under which you got the dog, and what really killed me was your compassion and care for the dog. The fact that you never went over the line as my husband would have done and you hugged him and told him he was a good dog just tore my heart up. I am so very sorry that your family went through not just the physical pain, but the deep emotional pain that this caused.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

This is too bad, sorry it turned out like this. I'm glad to hear your wife is doing better and that one day you'll welcome another GSD into your home.


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## The Packman (Jan 31, 2011)

BowWowMeow said:


> It's impossible for any of us to tell you why the dog suddenly attacked.


I can tell you why your K-9 attacked suddenly, without warning...you are dealing with a animal.

Since you got past not shooting him...I would have given him a second chance with you new found knowledge.


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## HansGFG (Apr 11, 2014)

The Packman said:


> I can tell you why your K-9 attacked suddenly, without warning...you are dealing with a animal.
> 
> Since you got past not shooting him...I would have given him a second chance with you new found knowledge.


This is a tragic story for both the owners and the dog.It seems to me like the dog had fallen for them as well and I'm also a believer of second chances in some circumstances.But in this case she was lucky her husband was there to chase the dog off.Maybe the dog snapped cause she got close to her husband,maybe not.What if next time there's another reason and he would not have been there to protect his wife?I would hate to hear the end of that story.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

BowWowMeow said:


> I am so sorry this happened. It's impossible for any of us to tell you why the dog suddenly attacked.
> 
> I hope you will return the dog to the breeder and I hope the breeder will do right by the dog.


I think you're right about it being difficult to say why a dog behaved a certain way through the Internet. But the point is to sort of discuss possible reasons and help the OP find some type of closure in his mind by discussing the possibilities.

Always looking for updates on this thread...


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

The Packman said:


> Since you got past not shooting him...I would have given him a second chance with you new found knowledge.


Are you kidding? 

If you think a dog should get a "second chance" after such a violent attack, I shudder to think what a dog has to do to convince you that a second chance is not appropriate. 

I feel a great deal of sympathy for the OP--this is an awful situation all the way around. Guilt, remorse, anger, sadness, pain, the irony of it all. Yeah, I've been there. I'm very glad that the dog was able to go back to the trainer, and you didn't have another dilemma of what to do with the dog after this happened.

Hope your wife heals well and that you will be able to move forward. This is certainly not normal GSD behavior.

If I may be so bold as to postulate a theory, this may be helpful if you get a older dog in the future. You mention you had this dog about a week and he was already going everywhere with you, sleeping with you, meeting new people and other dogs, etc. 

It takes most dogs about 2-3 weeks to settle into a new home. During this time, they may be on their best behavior because they do not perceive this place as "theirs" yet. However, the behavior may change once they become settled and begin to claim the new home as their territory. What they have been allowed to do in that first acclimatization period may affect their perception of where their place is in the pack. If they are immediately allowed full run and to do as they please, with no rules or boundaries, they may believe that they are the new King. They may claim a certain person as "theirs", and attempt to keep everyone else away, as though that person is a delicious bone that they want to keep. We call this "resource guarding". Perhaps, when your wife suddenly scooted closer to you, the dog thought his resource (you) was being threatened, and he wanted to defend it. This is NOT the same thing as being "protective". 

What many dog-savvy folks do when an adult dog comes into the home, is a "two week shutdown". The dog is kept crated or kenneled ALL the time, and only let out under the human's direct supervision and interaction for the first two weeks. Introductions are done gradually and the dog is not to leave the house (except for leashed walks) or go on outings. During this time, temperament can be assessed, boundaries can be established, and rules can be set. Household privileges are gradually earned.

Anyway, I am not a professional trainer, and I haven't seen the dog myself nor was I there to witness the attack. My theory could be totally wrong in this case, it's just something that occurred to me, something to think about.


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## Zeeva (Aug 10, 2010)

HansGFG said:


> This is a tragic story for both the owners and the dog.It seems to me like the dog had fallen for them as well and I'm also a believer of second chances in some circumstances.But in this case she was lucky her husband was there to chase the dog off.Maybe the dog snapped cause she got close to her husband,maybe not.What if next time there's another reason and he would not have been there to protect his wife?I would hate to hear the end of that story.


Don't you think the resentment alone wouldn't allow for a positive start at a second chance? I don't think a second chance in this case is feasible or describable either.

I really like Freestep's post...

I made this thread http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...89-have-you-known-any-dog-simply-snapped.html and was surprised in that the OP isn't really alone...although the thread did ask specifically for a dog that 'snapped'...I think most of the dogs were PTS.


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## HansGFG (Apr 11, 2014)

Zeeva said:


> Don't you think the resentment alone wouldn't allow for a positive start at a second chance? I don't think a second chance in this case is feasible or describable either.
> 
> I really like Freestep's post...
> 
> I made this thread http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...89-have-you-known-any-dog-simply-snapped.html and was surprised in that the OP isn't really alone...although the thread did ask specifically for a dog that 'snapped'...I think most of the dogs were PTS.


Like I said;This is one of those situations where a second chance is not suitable for either the dog or the owners.One because the outcome could be worse for the human and two because the second time around if the authorities get a tip on this the unfortunate may happen to the dog.I truly hope from the bottom of my heart that the next owner doesn't experience a terrible situation and the GS goes on to live a beautiful happy life!
As for the lady and her husband,I'm very very pleased that they are recovering physically and emotionally!!!!!!!


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