# Service Dog Breeders?



## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Hi I am looking for a breeder preferably on the east coast (though willing to travel farther) that would be good for getting a perspective service puppy. 

I currently own a male German Shepherd who is my current service dog and my first service dog was an Alaskan Malamute/Siberian Husky mix so I am aware of the training and exercise needs required. My current GSD (I adopted him from an abusive situation) is starting to show health issues that are probably going to lead to an early requirement.

For me, health and temperament are the most important. I need a very good work drive as well. We spend a lot of time around children, specifically between ages 2-6. My dog gets about 2 thirty minute walks/jogs a day on top of all the walking we do daily, we hike and bike on weekends. I have an agility course in my yard that we do daily as well as daily obedience and training, search games and about 1-2 hours of combined hardcore play. The easiest dogs to work with for Service Work are generally calm and focused when working.

I have stumbled across a few breeders. Southernwind Kennels, Tre'Good, and Cher Car. I have never gotten a GSD from a breeder so this is becoming very stressful for me, trying to figure out who to stay away from. I would love to know any recommended breeders or if anyone has any experience with any of the breeders I listed. I have had several people tell me to stay away from show lines and to only look at German Working Lines but I'm not sure. Thanks in advance.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

I would check out Blackthorn in VA, Christine Kemper (member of this board). She is on FB and has a website though the latter was not up to day last I looked.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

I have found and trained service dogs for people for many years. Here's my experience.

Do NOT get a puppy to train for service dog work. Puppies are a total crapshoot and I have never seen this work out. I made this mistake three times before I got smart. I'm sure it's worked for someone but the odds are against it.

You want a female that is at least a year old or a male that is at least 2 years old. By then, any issues with dog aggression will most likely have surfaced.

The so-called "working lines" are now the worst bet for service dog work. (Wasn't that way 30 years ago.) By and large, "working line" means the dog can do sport, not real world work. Insanely chase a flirt pole, you bet. Prance like an idiot looking at the handler without looking at where he is going, you bet. Lie quietly under a table during an office meeting for three hours, forget it. Wag his tail when a little kid bolts out of nowhere and pokes him in the eye, forget it.

The best dog I ever had was a German working lines GSD. But that was 30 years ago. Now you couldn't pay me to take most working line GSDs. (The reasons why this has happened to the breed is a whole different thread, which I will start someday when I have time.)

It takes a superdog to be a service dog. Forcing a dog to do this work when it is against his nature makes the dog miserable and can be dangerous to the public by making the dog unstable.

Thirty years ago, great GSDs were so common that I could find a good GSD service dog from a rescue group. No longer. I won't even look there anymore.

Lately I've had the best luck with the higher quality American showlines, from breeders who aim for kindhearted, stable, sweet, calm GSDs.

If you can afford it, you could get a GSD service dog from Mace's Malinois:

Breeder, Trainer & Seller of World Class Pedigree Belgian Malinois, German Shepherds, Dutch Shepherds & Miniature Australian Shepherds. Puppies, Trained Protection Dogs and Service Dogs

Most "service dog" breeders are scammers, but this guy does seem to to know what he is doing.

Good luck!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would highly recommend Sitz von der Hose. She has vast experience with breeding service dogs.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I usually advise people to find a service dog trainer and then get them to help with selection. Depending on what service work you need, and I would discuss that with the trainer and breeder, any stable, well bred GSD might work. 
I don't know why a WL wouldn't do.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Jax08 said:


> I would highly recommend Sitz von der Hose. She has vast experience with breeding service dogs.


I checked out her facebook page--couldn't find a single service dog in several months of posts. Just sport dogs, including a fine pic of one of her GSDs prancing like an idiot looking at his handler without paying any attention to where he's going. The dog could walk right off a cliff. Great guide dog potential, eh?

One of the reviews says she used to work at Fidelco, which breeds and trains guide dogs. If true, she had experience with guide dogs in the past.

But her current interest, judging from her facebook posts, is sport dogs. And one of her puppy videos shows exactly the type of landshark prey-drive freaks that are disasters as potential service dogs.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a sport dog. There's a lot wrong with telling folks that sport dogs make great service dogs.


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## Kennaandkurama (Apr 15, 2019)

Lol, your post made me laugh. Not because it was comical, yet rather arrogant. I’ll start off with: all puppies are ‘ landshark freaks’ especially shepherds. that thing you mentioned about the staring at the handler is called ‘heeling’ which is something very important to train those dogs, and service dogs as well. It puts all focus on the handler and on no one else... seems very good for a service dog yeah? Children screaming in the isle wanting to pet the dog? Nope. Full focus on handler, none on children. 
As long as these driven dogs get their energy out and have a job which can be * cough cough * service work * cough cough * they will be fine. I doubt jax or whoever was implying that a energetic dog is good for service work, but this breeder breeds level headed, smart, CONFIDENT dogs which is very important for that sort of work.


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## WIBackpacker (Jan 9, 2014)

I’m not commenting on the breeder in question, because I’ve never owned one of their dogs.

But I will comment to dispel the myth that dogs out of Schutzhund/IPO/IGP parentage are inherently nuts. A few years ago I took one of my dogs (National level IPO3 x National level IPO3) on a road trip where I was commissioned to deliver hardscapes, assemble them, and provide professional architectural services. After being dragged across the entire latitude of this country, my dog hopped out of my truck (in the middle of the night) and hung out with children in an orphanage while I got myself situated and set myself up for my remote office. 

Don’t. Generalize.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Kennaandkurama said:


> Lol, your post made me laugh. Not because it was comical, yet rather arrogant.


Arrogant is when folks who have never used or trained a service dog prattle on about their fantasies about what makes a good service dog.



Kennaandkurama said:


> I’ll start off with: all puppies are ‘ landshark freaks’ especially shepherds.


All puppies? You've really seen all puppies in the world? Nope. I've known plenty of GSD puppies who were not landshark freaks, although these are getting harder to find.



Kennaandkurama said:


> that thing you mentioned about the staring at the handler is called ‘heeling’ which is something very important to train those dogs, and service dogs as well. It puts all focus on the handler and on no one else... seems very good for a service dog yeah?


Nope. Another fantasy. That's sport dog heeling, and you won't see a real service dog doing that kind of nonsense. Part of a service dog's job is to pay attention to his surroundings. Real world heeling consists of walking calmly at the handler's side looking ahead and around him. When a service dog and his disabled handler function well as a team, verbal and touch cues are all that are needed. The dog does not and should not be staring nonstop at his handler.

When I have asked working line GSD breeders whether their dogs are suitable for, say, mobility assistance dog work, they often claim they are. When I then ask if their dogs could lie quietly under a table for 3 hours, they are shocked at the idea that their dogs could be expected to do such a thing. Typical responses: "Uh no, these are high drive dogs." "Oh, my dogs are way too high octane for that!" "What! These are sport dogs! You can't expect them to do something like that!"

I am way too busy training real dogs for real world work to argue with people about their fantasies of what it's like to train and work with service dogs. So this is my last post on this subject. I do think it is thoroughly rotten to harm disabled people who are seeking a service dog by giving them misinformed advice based on ignorance.


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## Kennaandkurama (Apr 15, 2019)

LOL! Silly. I’ve met a few people who have sport dogs as sds as well, who could sit patiently on a 9 hour plane trip. A good service dog should Be alert of their surroundings/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif I never said otherwise. But it should not be paying attention to a child wanting to pet it! You completely went over what I was implying. I’d hope you wouldn’t have any more to say on this subject, as you’re clearly oblivious


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## Kennaandkurama (Apr 15, 2019)

Oh! And one more, my dog currently IS a service dog ? please don’t assume I’ve never had one.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Kennaandkurama said:


> Oh! And one more, my dog currently IS a service dog ? please don’t assume I’ve never had one.


I’ve looked through your profile, and you don’t seem to know much about the breed. Certainly not enough to have such negative snarky things to say. 

OP, please listen to previous advice given by others. I agree completely with looking towards older dogs with more history behind them. And if service is what you’re looking for, a puppy isn’t going to be ready for at least 2 years. Is there a specific reason you want a GSD? And what type of work do you need out of a service animal?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Hawks Hunt(Suzanne Clothier) would be the person I would get with if you are looking for a good pup for service dog. She doesn't breed often, has a new litter now, probably all reserved, but she may be helpful in connecting you to another litter. My male was bred with her lines(my male was a 'sport' dog, titled in schutzhund). That litter produced service dogs. I don't know if her website is up to date, but you can find her contact info on it: 
https://suzanneclothier.com/hawks-hunt-german-shepherds/


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

JonRob said:


> Arrogant is when folks who have never used or trained a service dog prattle on about their fantasies about what makes a good service dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cannot and will not paint all breeders with the same brush. But I can state that while searching for a breeder I was shot down numerous times by sport dog breeders who openly stated that their dogs were not pets and incapable of being just active companions. 
I can also say that my whatevertheheckshewas working dog would have been ecstatic to be dumped in a day care, adored kids. She hung out watching movies, lazed in the patrol truck, schmoozed at BBQ's for food and turned it all on in a heartbeat when it was time to work. 
That focused heel? Don't get it but it's a trained thing, not something the dogs just do and my understanding is that it is no longer required in obedience.

Back on topic. I would check the recommended breeders or as I said find a trainer and go with their recommendations, because anyone training service dogs will know where to source one.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

JonRob said:


> I checked out her facebook page--couldn't find a single service dog in several months of posts. Just sport dogs, i*ncluding a fine pic of one of her GSDs prancing like an idiot looking at his handler without paying any attention to where he's going. The dog could walk right off a cliff. Great guide dog potential, eh?*
> 
> One of the reviews says she used to work at Fidelco, which breeds and trains guide dogs. If true, she had experience with guide dogs in the past.
> 
> ...


I see a dog that's biddable, focused, and trusts their handler. Focused healing is trained, not the result of the dog being a mindless drone. There are breeders breeding specifically for sport, however there are plenty of others breeding for balance and the latter can produce dogs capable of sport, SAR, service work, pets....


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> I usually advise people to find a service dog trainer and then get them to help with selection. Depending on what service work you need, and I would discuss that with the trainer and breeder, any stable, well bred GSD might work.
> I don't know why a WL wouldn't do.


I actually don't officially use a trainer. I have trained four service dogs, mine as well as an Irish Wolfhound for a friend who I raised in my home from 10 weeks old and a German Shepherd for a co-workers brother after he left the military. I have had dogs fail before and I am perfectly fine with that. Just like to start out with a good chance.


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Jchrest said:


> OP, please listen to previous advice given by others. I agree completely with looking towards older dogs with more history behind them. And if service is what you’re looking for, a puppy isn’t going to be ready for at least 2 years. Is there a specific reason you want a GSD? And what type of work do you need out of a service animal?


I am actually planning to retire my current one in about 3 years which is why I am looking now. My current GSD I raised from 7 months old and the Malamute/Husky mix I raised from 3 months old. The mix I actually only got because someone I knew got her as a first puppy and a month in couldn't handle her and the breeder didn't want her back. I've grown up around GSD's my entire life, from the ones my grandparents brought over when they immigrated here from Germany. I've been around other breeds, pet and service, and haven't really been happy with anything else. 

I once helped another SD handler when they were having issues with training a certain task ( the dog was a golden) and I had to work with him a completely different way then I've ever had to with GSD's. I use a Service Dog as basically a Medical Alert Dog though mainly PTSD. My current GSD does DPT, search and alert work, interrupting behaviors and occasionally forced leading and bracing.

I kind of get the feeling some of the other posters think my dogs' work is almost like a joke for the GSD world. He gets worked every day and contrary to some of the others remarks, no I don't allow strange people or especially children to touch him. Almost all of his gear says "do not touch" on it and I enforce it very seriously. I work 6 hours a day doing private security which half the time is outside and we are NEVER sitting for 3 hours. We're always moving and he is constantly worked with physically and mentally. I have had dogs fail service work before. I keep them as pets but I do just as much work with them and usually do scent work, pulling, etc.


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

JonRob said:


> Arrogant is when folks who have never used or trained a service dog prattle on about their fantasies about what makes a good service dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm honestly not sure if your bashing other people's views on the matter or if your bashing mine, but either way I firmly believe there is a difference between a High Energy dog and a Hyper Active dog. My dogs get more than enough physical and mental energy throughout the day. Personally, my GSD is never in a situation where he has to lie under a table for 3+ hours. I'm constantly on my feet and if I wanted a less active dog I would get a different breed altogether but this is a breed that works best for me and my lifestyle.

My dogs are PTSD trained so they are trained to pay attention to me more then a guide dog or mobility dog would, rather than their surroundings. Though I do agree there is a significant difference between heeling. I have seen high energy and high drive dogs be used as service dogs, though they do take a lot more work and training.

I have full confidence in my own training skills for service dogs. I also know a retired cop who spent most of his career training police dogs and a friend I served with was as a canine handler. Most of the dogs I hang out with these days besides my own are mostly Belgian Malinois and if I wasn't looking to eventually replace my current GSD at his job I would consider one of those. 
Thank you for the advice.


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

JonRob said:


> I checked out her facebook page--couldn't find a single service dog in several months of posts. Just sport dogs, including a fine pic of one of her GSDs prancing like an idiot looking at his handler without paying any attention to where he's going. The dog could walk right off a cliff. Great guide dog potential, eh?


Well, there is a difference between guiding a blind person and actual heeling. Contextual cues like being in a harness and cued to move forward versus not wearing a harness and being cued to heel have a lot to do with it. And the OP didn't say they needed a guide dog.


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## JonRob (Nov 5, 2017)

Nigel said:


> I see a dog that's biddable, focused, and trusts their handler. Focused healing is trained, not the result of the dog being a mindless drone.


 OK, this is a ten minute response so here goes.

Biddable my barnacles.

Biddable means that the fact that you tell a dog to do something and he understands what you want is enough for the dog to do it as long as it's reasonable—even if he’d rather not. No toy needed. No treats needed. This trait has been almost completely bred out of German Shepherds. 

The dog prancing like an idiot in that pic cares about only one thing, and it’s not his handler. That poor prey-drive freak is focused alright, and it's not on his handler. He is insanely focused on getting the chunk of rubber or whatever toy was used to train him. He “trusts” the handler to eventually give him the toy that is the most important thing in the world to him.

I could not possibly have trained my working lines GSD from 30 years ago to walk in such an idiotic manner. If I had tried, he would have looked at me like I was nuts and stalked off in a huff. He knew—without any training—that one of his most important jobs was to pay attention to his surroundings.

If I had started waltzing around snapping a flirt pole like a moron, he would have walked away from me, laid down with a grunt of disgust and waited for me to calm down.

Totally worthless as a sport dog. But he stopped some thugs from hijacking my girlfriend’s car, tried to go through a window to stop a burglar, and bit a fool who broke into my car. He also came to a halt whenever he saw a disabled person—no matter how weird looking—or someone in distress and begged for permission to go and do what he could to console the person. Which he always got if the person wanted him to, which they almost always did. There was one kid with cerebral palsy who was thrilled with him but was so spastic that his petting amounted to slapping my dog. And my dog just cuddled up closer to the kid. None of which is worth anything in a sport dog competition.

One of the tests some guide dog schools use for potential service dog candidates is to get the dog settled next to a handler, then have someone out of sight roll a ball past the dog. If the dog goes after the ball, he flunks. Period. No excuses. The risk is too high that he won’t be able to focus on his job. Sure rules out the prey-drive freaks.

Sending a disabled person to a breeder of prey-drive freaks to get a puppy who will almost certainly fail as a service dog is just rotten. This isn't some stupid thread about eastie-westie feet where it doesn't matter if you're wrong.

And now I really am gone, much to the relief of those who hate having their fantasies disrupted.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Eakaminski said:


> I kind of get the feeling some of the other posters think my dogs' work is almost like a joke for the GSD world. He gets worked every day and contrary to some of the others remarks, no I don't allow strange people or especially children to touch him. Almost all of his gear says "do not touch" on it and I enforce it very seriously. I work 6 hours a day doing private security which half the time is outside and we are NEVER sitting for 3 hours. We're always moving and he is constantly worked with physically and mentally. I have had dogs fail service work before. I keep them as pets but I do just as much work with them and usually do scent work, pulling, etc.


I truly, sincerely hope I did not give you that impression! That was certainly not my intent.

I cannot think of any job more important or more in keeping with the heritage of the breed then being a service dog and companion.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Eakaminski said:


> Jchrest said:
> 
> 
> > OP, please listen to previous advice given by others. I agree completely with looking towards older dogs with more history behind them. And if service is what you’re looking for, a puppy isn’t going to be ready for at least 2 years. Is there a specific reason you want a GSD? And what type of work do you need out of a service animal?
> ...


I would never take service work of any kind as a joke. I suffer with my own inner demons, and my GSD is super in-tuned with me. She helps me out of crippling depression, massive anxiety attacks (and alerts me before they hit, so I can get some meds in me to lesson the episode). 

Having close friends I grew up with serve, and coming back completely different people is heartbreaking, and I’ve never thought once that PTSD was something to be taken lightly. I’ve worked with a foundation that trained dogs for vets, mainly as therapy animals, and I always did the follow up in home visits. The huge amount of change in the confidence and happiness in the vet was amazing, and it was all due to a canine companion. 

If you’re years away from retiring your current SD, I don’t see why starting training on a pup now would be an issue. I never had the experience of choosing dogs for the foundation, just always worked with their training after they were selected and past the first line of testing. 

If you’re retired military, I would look into some of the foundations they may have in your area. They SD dogs are donated at no cost to you, but you may face a long wait list.

Good luck in all that you do! And prays out to you that you find what you are looking for!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

@Eakaminski - I sent you a PM.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

JonRob said:


> OK, this is a ten minute response so here goes.
> 
> Biddable my barnacles.
> 
> ...



So do working lines come out of the womb "prancing like idiots" with an insatiable drive for spherical rubber toys? Nope, they're taught. The drive for the toy comes through engagement with their handler. Engagement is key to building value in the toy/reward and its the interaction they seek through the toy ......and it does not matter if it's a $15 ball, a stick, or pine cone. This has been my experience anyways.

Judging by the OP's training experiences they should have no trouble working with a gsd from the one of the breeders suggested here.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Guys....just don't engage. Don't let this take over the OP's thread. I reported the posts and the unwarranted attacks on the breeder.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Seems to be way to many unwarranted attacks on lines of gsds on this forum. 

If you type in #gsdservicedog on Instagram in the search option you will find many many german shepherds of all lines as service dogs. You can message the owners and find out where they purchased or adopted their dog from -it is just a start. 

Just a few instagram gsd service dog stories out of many -going to school with high school student. 
https://instagram.com/dog_cam__?igshid=389dlvkceoun

https://instagram.com/max_and_rachel?igshid=1tmre4mhkpqiv

https://instagram.com/the.service.droid?igshid=1uwmtclq8cw5x


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Sabis mom said:


> I truly, sincerely hope I did not give you that impression! That was certainly not my intent.
> 
> I cannot think of any job more important or more in keeping with the heritage of the breed then being a service dog and companion.


I can assure you, you didn't! I found your advice extremely helpful! Also, is there any real difference in gender I should be aware of? I've only really been around male GSD long term. I know every dog is different and I'm sure the breeder I decide on will probably advise me on temperament and drive first, however, there could be more than one puppy they think fit my needs. In that situation, I would probably have to decide between genders.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Eakaminski said:


> I can assure you, you didn't! I found your advice extremely helpful! Also, is there any real difference in gender I should be aware of? I've only really been around male GSD long term. I know every dog is different and I'm sure the breeder I decide on will probably advise me on temperament and drive first, however, there could be more than one puppy they think fit my needs. In that situation, I would probably have to decide between genders.


My female (totally different breeding and breeder than my male) is soooo sensitive to me. I hear from my trainer that is a female thing and I don't doub that. She has many characteristics my last female had.

A male might be a little "harder" in terms of handler sensitivity. But, genetically, my female can take a correction better than him. He takes corrections personally.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

Eakaminski said:


> I can assure you, you didn't! I found your advice extremely helpful! Also, is there any real difference in gender I should be aware of? I've only really been around male GSD long term. I know every dog is different and I'm sure the breeder I decide on will probably advise me on temperament and drive first, however, there could be more than one puppy they think fit my needs. In that situation, I would probably have to decide between genders.


I think gender is personal preference.
I always said that I found females protect people, males protect territory. Others have different views. I find I work better with females others have said exactly the opposite. I placed an equal number, roughly, of males and females as service dogs and all did well for their specific people. I have never had a service dog, just patrol/protection dogs so I cannot speak to the specifics of service dog work.
I do wish you the best in your search and I am very happy to know that I said nothing wrong. As I said I believe in service dogs, I believe in the work that they do and I cannot honestly think of any job more fulfilling for a GSD.


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Jchrest said:


> I would never take service work of any kind as a joke. I suffer with my own inner demons, and my GSD is super in-tuned with me. She helps me out of crippling depression, massive anxiety attacks (and alerts me before they hit, so I can get some meds in me to lesson the episode).
> 
> Having close friends I grew up with serve, and coming back completely different people is heartbreaking, and I’ve never thought once that PTSD was something to be taken lightly. I’ve worked with a foundation that trained dogs for vets, mainly as therapy animals, and I always did the follow up in home visits. The huge amount of change in the confidence and happiness in the vet was amazing, and it was all due to a canine companion.
> 
> ...


I certainly never meant to imply that everyone on the forum was taking PTSD and other physical or mental disabilities as a joke, I do apologize if it came across that way.

There are facilities I have looked into, but as you mentioned, they do have substantial wait lists. Many told me it would be a minimum 5-10 years and then I would have to wait another year to two years for them to train to my specific needs. There are also a lot of foundations that will not place you with a SD if you currently have other dogs that are not retired service dogs or other pets. As I currently have a dog who is a "pet" though also a certified therapy dog who sometimes visits local hospitals, that doesn't really work well for me.

You also have to notify your current employer and basically, get "permission" from them for the SD to be allowed on premises. My current employer obviously doesn't have an issue with it but if I were to ever change jobs and my employer admitted they don't want the hassle, the facility won't place with you.

I LOVE working with dogs. It's one of the things that currently keeps me clear headed and the amount of training I put in keeps me on my feet. I would be terrified of how I would be if I didn't at least have one dog with me.

Thank you so much for your advice and for sharing your experiences with me. I'm probably going to ask around to some of the recommended breeders and talk to them about what I am looking for.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I train guide dogs and as much as I have a “thing” for and love training my boys - if I were a guide dog user myself, I’m pretty sure I’d have a female preference. I like their work ethic.... but they can also be a little complex.

I think the bigger question for me if I were in your shoes would be dealing with their seasons and the training limitations that come with that.


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## Felafufu (May 19, 2018)

You could get in touch with Haus Morrisson in MD. Amy doesn't breed dogs specifically as service dogs, but I know at least one of hers works as a service dog now (I've met him). Another is in training with Hero Dogs. On that note, perhaps Hero Dogs or another such entity could give you some advice on where to look?


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

It depends on the dog. My male is really in tune with me he also picked up inflammation in my brothers leg. They are all different.


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Fodder said:


> I train guide dogs and as much as I have a “thing” for and love training my boys - if I were a guide dog user myself, I’m pretty sure I’d have a female preference. I like their work ethic.... but they can also be a little complex.
> 
> I think the bigger question for me if I were in your shoes would be dealing with their seasons and the training limitations that come with that.


Complex as in their attitudes or their trainability? Both? I've only really spent a lot of effort training one female dog and that is my Malamute/Husky mix and so I'm a little unsure of if the issues I had training her were breed related or female related. I have just always had male dogs before I got her, growing up. For example, she's stubborn and will ignore me if she gets a better offer. Loves other people and gets insulted if every stranger doesn't come up to her and she is obsessed with children. Always stares at my neighbors' kids and when my sister had her daughter a few months ago, she cares more about that baby than anyone else in the room. Extremely food motivated.

I will say though that she picks things up a lot faster than my male GSD and is always excited to work (sometimes over excited) and my GSD has days where he almost acts like he wants to be doing other things and while he acts amazingly professional while working, sometimes we will leave the house and I'll let him be without telling him to work (if we're going over to a relatives house or picking up dog food from tractor supply) and he acts like a clumsy overexcited puppy.

I actually have been thinking about the problems of heat. The first thing for gender people usually mention is if you have a dog, get the opposite sex. Problem with that is I have a male and a female. The female is spayed (not by my choice as she had already been spayed) and my male is not neutered. The puppy I get I probably will never neuter or spay unless it's mandatory in the contract.

Also, do you see more females succeed as guide dogs? Or is it purely your preference because of their work ethic? Thanks.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

I don't think working an intact female as a service dog is realistic. She would have to wear panties in public and that's a public perception issue...ppl might think she was not housebroke . Not to mention possible attention she might draw to herself.

Then there is the issue of intact males and females in the same house while she is in heat. I don't see any of them being clear headed enough to be a true service dog at home with all those hormones flying around.

I have two intact males, one who will be neutered and one who won't. Both do tasks for me, one as a public dog and one not. I can't imagine trying to have a female in heat, demand my boys get along, put me first and ignore her under the same roof....and I would NOT want to deal with the potential drama.

I may get a female GSD sometime in the future and if I could stand my male might take her thru a heat or two but I wouldn't do that till my younger male is neutered in the hope that he could carry on as a working dog despite whatever else was going on


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

I can tell you about work ethic.

I had three male patrol partners prior to my female. They were great dogs, I loved them. They worked when asked, and worked well, but I never had an issue leaving them off duty if they were injured, sick, etc. and the work was a game. If I needed to I could call them off a search and load them up

My female was on a whole other level. If I left her home to run errands no problem but if I left her to go to work huge problem. She would pace, worry and watch out the window for me. My husband actually called me to come and get her one night because she was so stressed. 
It was not a game to her, she took it very seriously. She had a job to do and it was very important that she do it. She was very particular about doing it right and her head was 100% on the job, all the time. She worked some brutal jobs with me and at no point would she quit. It caused her distress if I forced her to give up. She would have worked sick, hurt, tired, whatever. We tried to retire her at 7 or 8 and she was so miserable that we put her back to work and let her work until she was unable to at all. 

The boys were dogs that went to work, my girl was a working dog.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I just went thru my puppy's first heat with an intact male. That was not fun.


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> I don't think working an intact female as a service dog is realistic. She would have to wear panties in public and that's a public perception issue...ppl might think she was not housebroke . Not to mention possible attention she might draw to herself.
> 
> Then there is the issue of intact males and females in the same house while she is in heat. I don't see any of them being clear headed enough to be a true service dog at home with all those hormones flying around.
> 
> ...


Yeah I probably didn't think that through as much as I should have. I always feel very uncomfortable spaying or neutering unnecessarily. My mother has a setter/lab that she got from a shelter, they neutered him at 5 weeks and she brought him home at 6 weeks after telling her he was 8. Been around enough puppies to know that he was not 8 weeks. He's physically and mentally stunted.

On second thought, if I get a female I'll probably end up spaying her after her first heat. Males, however, I see no reason to unless necessary. Thank you for bringing that up!


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## LeoRose (Jan 10, 2013)

I've got a friend with an intact bitch service dog. It works for them.


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## Jchrest (Jun 5, 2019)

Eakaminski said:


> I've only really spent a lot of effort training one female dog and that is my Malamute/Husky mix and so I'm a little unsure of if the issues I had training her were breed related or female related. I have just always had male dogs before I got her, growing up. For example, she's stubborn and will ignore me if she gets a better offer. Loves other people and gets insulted if every stranger doesn't come up to her and she is obsessed with children. Always stares at my neighbors' kids and when my sister had her daughter a few months ago, she cares more about that baby than anyone else in the room. Extremely food motivated.
> 
> I will say though that she picks things up a lot faster than my male GSD and is always excited to work


You’re explaining my Husky/GSD perfectly. He’s an intact male, dam was GSD, sire was GSD/Husky. He looks exactly like a Husky, can’t see any of the GSD in him. And he acts exactly like any other Husky I’ve dealt with. Crazy hyper drive, can work for hours upon hours and still be raging to go more. But he is so incredibly goofy as well. He wants attention from every person in the room. If someone is petting another of our dogs, he puts a paw on your arm and pushes it away from the other dog so you will pet him. DH lets him get away with it, I don’t. He’s also an escape artist like most Husky’s are. He took a shopping trip inside our local Walmart after dashing past my stepdaughters when they were leaving for school.

I have zero experience with using him as a therapy or service animal though. He’s incredibly agile, and excels at agility, but even when he’s running the course, you can see in his eyes he’s thinking about his next meal or next petting session from anyone. 

He is literally a dog that never stops. Swimming, agility, fetch, scent work, walks, and he still wants to do more more more, right now right now right now. If he was a kid, I’d probably put him on Adderall ?. So I’m thinking it has nothing to do with your Husky being female.


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## Eakaminski (Jul 3, 2019)

So I have been doing some research on some of the recommended breeders. Stumbled across Mace's Malinois first as someone suggested for adult dogs and did not like what I found. A lot of mentions about fear in some of the trained dogs and random bouts of aggression towards children and strangers.

I've also had people on a different forum recommending getting a show line Belgian Tervuren as it would apparently be more stable than a GSD and be prone to fewer health issues, but idk.

Still unsure about two of the breeders I mentioned, Southernwind and Cher Car? I haven't really heard anyone recently who have had experiences with either breeder and I have heard that Cher Car focuses more on their dutchies than their other breeds. However, I did hear a few GSD's were used as therapy dogs at a VA hospital in MI. Southernwind looked to breed more for family and pet temperaments and not have titles or anything.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I saw Mace's had a service dog who was sired by Quardes. He produces some pretty high level sport dogs. As in winning the WUSV sport dogs. I've met several of his progeny. Some would work for a service dog for you and some would not. Another service dog listed was heavy on Czech lineage. These dogs are known for higher levels of aggression and higher levels of suspicion. I wonder if the "service" was meant to be K9 and not a personal service dog? They both looked to be super nice dogs.

I love my West German/Czech bred dogs. I know my Sitz vd Hose dog would be fine as a service dog because he has siblings that were donated to a seeing eye organization and they loved them. He's a brother to the one she's heeling with in the picture. Several dogs are in SAR and pet homes. Very balanced dogs, very into their handlers, settles well in the house, very biddable and want to be correct. I've often taken him to work with me to do things on lunch break or if there is an appointment after work. He easily chills in the office for hours. Not quite the poor prey-drive freaks they were made out to be above.

I've heard of Cher Car but not in a long time. And never heard of Southernwind. You might want to check out vom Kugelblitz in NY. Her dogs are several generations of SAR dogs. She used to work in a school and the dogs were there all dog with teens. They settle well, good balanced drives. She's a police officer now and active in SAR.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

you previously asked if it was purely female work ethic i preferred and what i meant by complex.... it’s hard to explain, keeping in mind that these are large generalizations and there are many trained behaviors that i’m working with that are unique to guide dogs.

i find the girls to be highly intelligent, mature and quick learners... with that can come stubbornness, boredom, but on the plus side, they’re really good at thinking outside the box. but when they love their job and the right conditions are there - they take their jobs very seriously and are always ready to work. typically they are motivated by the work itself, and i just happen to be there to hang out with on breaks, lol

a lot of my boys have been initially harder to train - because, you know, there are so many other things going on (eyeroll) but once i have their attention, they’re mine and are very willing and try hard to please. you teach them a task and they do that task. fairly simple and the right amount of sensitivity.

our dogs get assigned to us between 14-16 months usually. the boys feel like they’re coming in as freshman in high school vs a lot of the girls seem like college seniors. for context, they’re mostly labs. being a trainer, i like training the boys... i can see their development, monitor their progress and i feel that i bond closer with them because of it. come time for blindfold testing and pairing them with their handlers... the girls make my life easier.

not sure that helps at all, if nothing else it’s one guide dog mobility instructors experience, ha!

my personal dogs are boys and i haven’t raised a puppy since 1995.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Eakaminski said:


> I've also had people on a different forum recommending getting a show line Belgian Tervuren as it would apparently be more stable than a GSD and be prone to fewer health issues, but idk.



Unless things have changed a lot since I was around show bred Tervs, this is very far from the truth. They also have some serious health issue and much more coat to deal with. 



IMO you can find what you need in a GSD, but you may have to wait for the right litter and the right puppy.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

BTW...that Lisa Clark breeds some pretty nice dogs too.


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## Devra (Jan 31, 2020)

Eakaminski said:


> Hi I am looking for a breeder preferably on the east coast (though willing to travel farther) that would be good for getting a perspective service puppy.
> 
> I currently own a male German Shepherd who is my current service dog and my first service dog was an Alaskan Malamute/Siberian Husky mix so I am aware of the training and exercise needs required. My current GSD (I adopted him from an abusive situation) is starting to show health issues that are probably going to lead to an early requirement.
> 
> ...


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## Devra (Jan 31, 2020)

I have a Tre' Good Gsd and he is remarkable in every way. Christine is a breeder you can trust and she makes sure each person gets the perfect dog. She does not sell dogs without meeting the potential owner first. She has a guest home on the property and you can stay there for free while she works with you. Her pups are beautiful, clear in the head and smart in a way I've never experienced. All of her pups have good hips and elbows and she keeps the pups and mom in her home and has pre-school activities when they get a little older.
She takes each pup on field trips and the designated service dogs go to restaurants, Walmart and to various stores. Her breeding program is amazing and unlike many breeders, all of her pups have no common ancestors for 6 generations. I know you will love having one of her pups.


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## Devra (Jan 31, 2020)

Eakaminski said:


> Hi I am looking for a breeder preferably on the east coast (though willing to travel farther) that would be good for getting a perspective service puppy.
> 
> I currently own a male German Shepherd who is my current service dog and my first service dog was an Alaskan Malamute/Siberian Husky mix so I am aware of the training and exercise needs required. My current GSD (I adopted him from an abusive situation) is starting to show health issues that are probably going to lead to an early requirement.
> 
> ...


I will share my experience with Tre' Good GSD and Christine Scattergood and hope this will be of interest to you. I spent months communicating with Christine before I decided her program was the best I've ever seen. She responded to every email and telephone call and freely gave me her time and expertise. When Christine told me she had a dog she thought would work for me I went to Az. and spent a week in her guesthouse getting to know the dog and working with Christine everyday. We went to Sedona and spent days going into shops that had very costly glass objects for sale and frankly, I was afraid the dog might break something. He was a champ and calmly walked through not only this store, but every imaginable shop and restaurant and he was rock solid.
We even took him and Christine's personal dog to a movie one night and my dog was very good. I took my dog into the Courthouse and into a courtroom and he went into his down and actually fell asleep.
My point is that every single pup that Christine breeds has hundreds of hours of training, exposure and confidence building exercises. She does not keep the mom or pups in a kennel and they are with Christine or another handler from birth until the time the new owners gets the dog.
My dog was tested at 4 months old and easily passed the test for public access. This test took several hours and my dog was expected to walk through a busy and large store and not react to any of the challenges put forth by the evaluator. Some of the tests involved putting my dog on a down at the deli counter and walk away. My dog stayed perfectly in place even with the delicious smells all around him.
We flew home after a week and he was in the cabin with me and handled it like a champ. Christine does not sell her dogs sight unseen and the potential buyer comes to her home and stays in her guest house, or the dog is delivered to the buyer by a handler who stays for a few days to ensure it is a good fit.
Her dogs are not line bred, they don't have genetic problems, no hip problems or other issues common to GSD. I can say without hesitation that Christine is honest, you can trust her completely and she is there for you after you get the dog. I believe I emailed her almost every day for the first year and she always responded and helped me with whatever my question was. I hope this will be helpful to you as you search for a new companion. Best of luck to you,

Devra


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