# Breeder Question from a Newbie



## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

First, I should start off by saying "Hello" since I am a newbie here! I had many GSD's growing up, unfortunately all of them came from BYB's. They were all great dogs (minus one) But either they were not good with strangers (most likely due to the way they were raised) or had severe health problems. After going through all of this as a kid, I don't want to put my daughter (16months) through that. I know when I am ready to add my first dog into our family I want it to be a good breeder and make sure that on my part I give it the correct training and socialization. So here is my question;

Would it be odd to "interview" breeders and ask to view their facilities even if we will not be getting one for awhile? I am not sure that now is a good time to add a puppy into our family, but I want to start looking for a good breeder, so that when the time is right all the work has been done. My husband thinks that I am crazy, and that it is stupid to contact breeders this early in advance. Am I crazy? Opinions please? Thanks! (Also would love some breeder recommendations in Michigan/surrounding states. TIA!!)


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## Hunther's Dad (Mar 13, 2010)

Welcome to the board! I don't think it's too soon to interview breeders. Between reading up on the breed, identifying a breeder who you are comfortable with, and making preparations for the puppy, taking your time is a wise move.

Just make sure you bring your husband with you. When you see some cute little furballs running around, you might wind up adding one to your family sooner than you think!


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Getting to know breeders NOW is a good idea. We love it when people do their homework in advance.


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

This tread is a great place to start.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks for the replies so far! Now I can tell my husband that I am not crazy and I have proof! I will definitely take a look at that link. My research today has brought me to two breeders that have stuck out.

kolendakennels.com

teamhuertahof.com 

Does anyone have any information, both neg. and pos. that they could PM me? It looks like they both breed West German showlines...am I correct?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that on this board, you will probably get a lot of people giving you a lot of positive responses to this idea. I think that when you get out there and start interviewing breeders, you might have a mixed response. 

To be a responsible breeder (on this board) you cannot be profiting from selling puppies. If you make anything beyond the specific cost of the litter, that money must be directly invested back into the dogs. And with most good breeders it is, but this means the breeder MUST be independently wealthy, or working. 

If a breeder is independently wealthy, the breeder who probably has a maid service come in once or twice a week, would probably be happy to fit you in between teaching vacation Bible School and dog classes in the evening. The house will not be needing repairs and the lawns will be pretty and meticulously maintained. You will meet their bitches, and possibly the dog. 

The rest of the good breeders you talk to, will be willing to talk over the phone to you, but they may want to wait until you are more serious about getting a dog to have you come to their home. This is not because they keep their dogs in dispicable condition. It is because they are working, have dog training, trials, shows, and a life. They might want to wait until they have puppies, but over three weeks old, because chances are they will NOT let you visit prior to three weeks. 

While it sounds good on paper to let everyone and anyone come over to just look over your place, the fact is, you can jump through all the hoops and be number 1 on their list of breeders, but when they are ready for a puppy and they call, and you tell them that you just bred your bitch and puppies will probably be available in four months, well, chances are, they will go and find some other breeder and already have a puppy when you call to let them know the puppies have been born and how many of either sex. They may not tell you this until you call them and let them know that it is time for them to pick their puppy though. 

I think if you have time, join a shepherd club, go to meetings go to shows, get to know some people, ask people who they train with, ask people about vets, look at dogs. Then buy from someone you know have gotten to know. 

Or, talk to a lot of breeders over the phone, tell them you are not ready to buy a puppy yet, but if they would like you to come over sometime and help to socialize a litter. Then the breeder can determine the best relative timing, and you can see the bitches that will be bred, and possibly the up and coming bitches. 

I had an individual from training classes ask me to let her come and socialize puppies when they were born, she was not ready yet for a pup. And I agreed. She came twice. Then as I was letting some of them grow up a little before selling them, she offered to take one through puppy class for me. And she did (I paid for the puppy class, but she kept and socialized the pup). Almost a year later, when her puppy had just been born, she went with my to a show for the sisters of the pup she put through classes. She was also familiar enough to my bitch that I let her come in (prior to going to the show) to see the newborns. 

The thing is, I knew this person would be serious about training, about trialing her dog (we got legs together at a show in December on the pups.) 

I think that some people will let you come and see their dogs if you are not currently in the market and some will not. And you could just write off those breeders. 

I know that I have canceled plans and missed dog classes for people to just come and see. I do think there is a point where you have to draw a line though.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

I take it from the two links you posted you are interested in a German Showline. Kolanda Kennels is more of a commercial type operation. 

Robin from Huert Hof is a member on this board, and has a great reputation for integrity and honesty, without the usual inflated prices that many Showline breeders sell their puppies for. 

Also just wanted to remind everyone that negative comments are to be sent via PM (no breeder bashing!), but positive comments, recommendations, and general advice is welcome from all.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Danielle609 said:


> Thanks for the replies so far! Now I can tell my husband that I am not crazy and I have proof! I will definitely take a look at that link. My research today has brought me to two breeders that have stuck out.
> 
> kolendakennels.com
> 
> ...


I do not know anything of Kolenda Kennels, but teamhuertahof, Robin is a member here and she has West German Showline dogs, very knowledgeable, dogs have good credentials. If I was in the market, I would buy one from her.


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## Castlemaid (Jun 29, 2006)

> To be a responsible breeder (on this board) you cannot be profiting from selling puppies. If you make anything beyond the specific cost of the litter, that money must be directly invested back into the dogs. And with most good breeders it is, but this means the breeder MUST be independently wealthy, or working.
> 
> If a breeder is independently wealthy, the breeder who probably has a maid service come in once or twice a week, would probably be happy to fit you in between teaching vacation Bible School and dog classes in the evening. The house will not be needing repairs and the lawns will be pretty and meticulously maintained. You will meet their bitches, and possibly the dog.


LOL Selzer, where do you get these views from? Not even close to what the board recommends in general. People focus on the aims and goals of the breeders, and what they have produced as an indication of what makes them reputable. Not on their personal finances and lifestyle. Sorta has no place in this thread and is a red herring to derail the conversation.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

My point is that most breeders have a life, are not independently wealthy and are not living off the proceeds of puppy sales. So they are not necessarily going to welcome with open arms every one who just wants to show up and check them out. 

I think it has a place on this thread. 

I think people on this board will say yes yes yes, go check them out years before you are even serious about buying a puppy. 

I think in real life, breeders might want to open their home and kennels only to people who are serious about buying.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Castlemaid said:


> I take it from the two links you posted you are interested in a German Showline.


I do think that is what I am headed toward. I like the West German Red and Black. But of course I am fairly open. I mainly want a good match for my family. I am also toying with the idea of possibly showing, but not for profit (I am not sure there is any profit in it anyways) but just to get into the "sport" of it. I told my husband I want to go to Indiana for the Sieger show next year. Is the Sieger show the main competition for Shepherds?


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

selzer said:


> My point is that most breeders have a life, are not independently wealthy and are not living off the proceeds of puppy sales. So they are not necessarily going to welcome with open arms every one who just wants to show up and check them out.
> 
> I think it has a place on this thread.
> 
> ...


I do completely understand that I may not be priority if I am not interested in a current litter. But that doesn't mean that I am not serious about buying a puppy. It just may be a while before I get that far. My Husband daughter and I live on the opposite side of a duplex that my Great Grandmother owns. I am her main caregiver and once anything happens to her. (God bless her soul, but she is 96 years old) We will be purchasing the house that we live in and convert into a single family home. Right now our side is not very large, although we have a beautiful piece of land, 1.5 acres on the Thornapple river with plenty of room for a dog to run. I just don't know how comfortably we could fit a dog in our house right now. So ideally when we have possession over the whole house I will have a breeder picked out.

All that being said, I might change my mind and get one sooner than later if I find the right breeder and puppy, but I need to do what is best for my family.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

selzer said:


> I do not know anything of Kolenda Kennels, but teamhuertahof, Robin is a member here and she has West German Showline dogs, very knowledgeable, dogs have good credentials. If I was in the market, I would buy one from her.


Thanks for the input. I was immediately drawn to her dogs. They are amazing!


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I second Robin, and to add, she has small kids hanging with her dogs, puppies so they are really socialized to little kids!! a Good thing in my book


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

JakodaCD OA said:


> I second Robin, and to add, she has small kids hanging with her dogs, puppies so they are really socialized to little kids!! a Good thing in my book


 That is a very good thing, seeing as I have a 16 month old of my own  I am on vacation at my cottage right now, but will definitely talk to my husband about getting into contact with her!


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

I'd third/fourth Robin!

And no, there's really no profit in showing unless you're a super big wig with "backers" for your dog, lol


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

*Thank you everyone for your recommendation!*
I just happen to look at this thread...so I could possibly "recommend a couple of breeders" LOL!
Danielle609...we will be in Virginia, competing in the Sieger Show.....please feel free to introduce yourself, and hang out with us.
*We WON'T be the largest group there, or the one with the most entourage...but we WILL be the group that is having the most fun!! LOL!*

I would also like to recommend a small breeder, who is producing some very nice puppies. We evaluated them today...and they are very nice.
She is a super, nice person...she trains with us, and Carlos is guiding her with breeding's.
Her name is Michelle Yoo...and her website is: www.hokschhaus.com 
Also....Julie Richards of Alta Toll-Haus.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

When's the Sieger Show Robin?


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> *Thank you everyone for your recommendation!*
> I just happen to look at this thread...so I could possibly "recommend a couple of breeders" LOL!
> Danielle609...we will be in Virginia, competing in the Sieger Show.....please feel free to introduce yourself, and hang out with us.
> *We WON'T be the largest group there, or the one with the most entourage...but we WILL be the group that is having the most fun!! LOL!*
> ...


Hi Robin! Nice to "meet" you...I have heard very many good things about you  LOL. (and may or may not have stalked your website...and you have absolutely gorgeous dogs!!) When is the Virgina show? For some reason I didn't think there was going to be one until next year in Indiana, but I just learned about the sieger show yesterday  Is there a website with sieger show/how to show information?

Also, thank you for the other recommendations. It is nice to see a breeder through out some names...shows me that you really care about the right puppy going to the right person and not just a profit. I am starting to see why you are so highly recommended! So from a breeders opinion is it weird to start "interviewing" (can't think of a better word) early even though it may be awhile before I actually add one to the family? (it isn't that I don't want one right now, I just don't feel there is enough room) TIA!!


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Xeph...The WDA Sieger Show will be again in Virginia this year...in October.
*Ya gotta go!.....come hang out....you know how to find us! LOL!*
We will/plan on having progeny there from our 2 stud dogs.....

Danielle609....It is most important for a buyer AND the puppy to be correctly connected.....otherwise, it can and often will be a bad situation.
I have no problem recommending other breeders (that I would consider buying a puppy from)....after all, it's all about the buyer & puppy....not the breeder.
I would love to be able to offer assistance in "pairing" a wonderful puppy owner with one of my puppies.....BUT....if I don't have the "right" puppy, then I want to help the buyer find it.....

The UScA 2012 Sieger Show is supposed to be held in Indiana.....we will know more, when additional info is posted. *It is usually held in the months of March & April*... gosh...I hope it's in May for weather sake!
We plan on attending also.

Thanks again everyone for the recommendation.....it REALLY means alot to me!!!
Robin


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> The WDA Sieger Show will be again in Virginia this year...in October.


I'll have to stop by on my way back from GSD Nationals xD



> Ya gotta go!.....come hang out....you know how to find us! LOL!


Well DUH! Ya look for the two happiest people there having the most fun xD


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

welcome. i think it's a great idea to shop breeders early.
i think i started looking at breeders a year before my
pup was coming home. keep in mind when you set a time
for the new pup the breeder might not have pups available at that time.
good luck with the new pup. getting ready for a pup is so exciting.


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

Hi Danielle! I think you are absolutely doing the right thing by educating yourself, asking questions, and familiarizing yourself with breeders/lines/etc. The only thing that can come out of being discriminate with the breeder that you choose, is feeling that you absolutely, positively made the right decision!

I can tell you from experience, that I will not use any other breeder other than Huerta Hof (Robin, on this board, and her husband Carlos). I train my dogs to be mobility assistance dogs (I use a wheelchair), as well as compete in obedience and in Schutzhund...so you can see that I need my dogs to be stable in temperament, confident, willing to work (for hours on end), and be utilitarian (I am a teacher Mon-Fri and my dogs go to school with me...but I need him to also walk on to a Schutzhund field, turn his "drive" on and be a relentless competitor). 

I know you are mostly looking for a pet, but just as Robin and Carlos are experts at helping to choose a working dog as in my case, they will work with you to find the best dog *FOR YOU *and your family. I consider myself lucky to be a part of their "team" family and have seen countless people walk away happy, week after week, with their dogs...pets and working dogs alike. 

My current Huerta Hof pup, XX Dos Equis...about a month ago...


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Hillary_Plog said:


> Hi Danielle! I think you are absolutely doing the right thing by educating yourself, asking questions, and familiarizing yourself with breeders/lines/etc. The only thing that can come out of being discriminate with the breeder that you choose, is feeling that you absolutely, positively made the right decision!
> 
> I can tell you from experience, that I will not use any other breeder other than Huerta Hof (Robin, on this board, and her husband Carlos). I train my dogs to be mobility assistance dogs (I use a wheelchair), as well as compete in obedience and in Schutzhund...so you can see that I need my dogs to be stable in temperament, confident, willing to work (for hours on end), and be utilitarian (I am a teacher Mon-Fri and my dogs go to school with me...but I need him to also walk on to a Schutzhund field, turn his "drive" on and be a relentless competitor).
> 
> ...


That pup of yours is AMAZING! How old was he when that picture was taken?


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

Thanks! He was 3 1/2 months old when the picture was taken. He is a Cuervo son.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Hi and welcome! And a BIG thank you for doing your research before jumping into the GSD puppy world. I also recommend Robin and her dogs. I personally prefer working lines over showlines but Robin is top of my list when we seriously begin looking for our next pup. Robin is knowledgeable and as someone said previously, her pups spend a large amount of time around small children so they start out well socialized with kids. Robin is honestly the only showline breeder i would go to because i know she works her dogs. 

I think its wise to meet with and visit breeders you're interested in if you're able. Interviewing them while they interview you. Makes sense to me. I have two young children myself so i can understand where you're coming from in that case alone. Good luck in your search!


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Hillary_Plog said:


> Thanks! He was 3 1/2 months old when the picture was taken. He is a Cuervo son.


I was eying Cuervo! Such a handsome man!! I also saw that they breed a female with Rocco Mittelwest...is he owned by Huerta or is he studded out from Mittelwest? Cuervo and Rocco are, in my opinion of course, the best looking males. (I like the deep colors!)


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

Rocco is a Mittelwest dog. I can't speak for Robin, but breeders will use other males from different breeding programs for various reasons, i.e. they have a female who's lines will work well with a particular male, they want to bring in a certain physical or tempermental characteristic to enhance their breeding program, etc., etc. That particular breeding produced some very nice females with incredible working drive. 

One thing to keep in mind Danielle, if you get a show line GSD from a reputable breeder like Huerta Hof, you *ARE* going to get a beautiful dog *no matter what the color is*...I know, when one is perusing different dogs/breeders, that it is easy to get stuck on one particular characteristic like black/red (as you mentioned), dark mask, etc., etc.. Try not to make the mistake of focusing too much on one physical trait...for instance, I have seen many black/red dogs that have bad temperaments, unsightly physical characteristics, or had other health issues...but, Ivan von Huerta Hof is more of a traditional black/tan, BEAUTIFUL dog who produces outstanding puppies with incredible temperament. 

Look for temperament and health first, as you are looking for a nice, family pet...it will be beautiful, no matter the color. Just my two cents for ya, since I know you're a newbie... BTW, you better not ask Robin for any pictures from the most recent Ivan babies (I'm not sure if there are any left from the "Y" litter or not) but you will FALL IN LOVE...LOL.


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Hillary_Plog said:


> Rocco is a Mittelwest dog. I can't speak for Robin, but breeders will use other males from different breeding programs for various reasons, i.e. they have a female who's lines will work well with a particular male, they want to bring in a certain physical or tempermental characteristic to enhance their breeding program, etc., etc. That particular breeding produced some very nice females with incredible working drive.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind Danielle, if you get a show line GSD from a reputable breeder like Huerta Hof, you *ARE* going to get a beautiful dog *no matter what the color is*...I know, when one is perusing different dogs/breeders, that it is easy to get stuck on one particular characteristic like black/red (as you mentioned), dark mask, etc., etc.. Try not to make the mistake of focusing too much on one physical trait...for instance, I have seen many black/red dogs that have bad temperaments, unsightly physical characteristics, or had other health issues...but, Ivan von Huerta Hof is more of a traditional black/tan, BEAUTIFUL dog who produces outstanding puppies with incredible temperament.
> 
> Look for temperament and health first, as you are looking for a nice, family pet...it will be beautiful, no matter the color. Just my two cents for ya, since I know you're a newbie... BTW, you better not ask Robin for any pictures from the most recent Ivan babies (I'm not sure if there are any left from the "Y" litter or not) but you will FALL IN LOVE...LOL.


LOL...I will try not to look at any puppy pics  You gave a good point about color. And I do LOVE the black/red, but my #1 priority is finding the perfect puppy for my family. Will you be showing XX Dos Equis?


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Hi Danielle!
Hillary is correct......we used an outside stud dog (Rocco vom Mittelwest) because of his bloodlines. His bloodlines went very well with Hexa's.....and sure enough, we did get what we expected!...actually more....
Because we don't breed to "just have puppies"....we look at what we need...and breed accordingly.
XX Dos Equis entered his first show in May.....he placed VP3!...he was also one of the youngest puppies in the class.
XX Dos Equis (God willing) has a bright future ahead of him. He has excellent drives, but is a little stubborn! LOL!.........poor Hillary has her work cut out for her...but if anyone can make him *all that he can be*...it will be Hillary!


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> Hi Danielle!
> Hillary is correct......we used an outside stud dog (Rocco vom Mittelwest) because of his bloodlines. His bloodlines went very well with Hexa's.....and sure enough, we did get what we expected!...actually more....
> Because we don't breed to "just have puppies"....we look at what we need...and breed accordingly.
> XX Dos Equis entered his first show in May.....he placed VP3!...he was also one of the youngest puppies in the class.
> XX Dos Equis (God willing) has a bright future ahead of him. He has excellent drives, but is a little stubborn! LOL!.........poor Hillary has her work cut out for her...but if anyone can make him *all that he can be*...it will be Hillary!


He is a very nice stud and Hexa is Beautiful! I personally love Cuervo too. I love the deep bold colors!! Hillary, do you have any current pictures of XX Dos Equis?? Congrats on his first show, that is amazing! To both of you!


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## Hillary_Plog (Apr 3, 2011)

These are from the last show on June 11th...he was a week away from being 5 months old.


Being stacked for the Judge's critique.









Here he is the dog in the middle, in catalog order, being stacked by the same girl (Dominique) in the red shirt (as the above pic).


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## Danielle609 (Jun 18, 2011)

Hillary_Plog said:


> These are from the last show on June 11th...he was a week away from being 5 months old.
> 
> 
> Being stacked for the Judge's critique.
> ...


Hillary, He is absolutely stunning!! I am so jealous  Is this your first time showing?


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