# Immediately following a dog fight



## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

What do you do? Both with the dogs and how you interact with them... Scolding? Comforting? Indifference? Do you put the offenders back together? Do you seperate them?


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Keep everyone apart to give everyone (including me) a chance to settle down. How long depends on how bad the fight was. It takes 3+ days for brain chemistry to return to normal after a real fight and the potential for it to be "on" again at the drop of a hat is too great to just return to normal.

Though my jerk reaction would be to scold the instigator, by the time I get to it, it's too late. I would act indifferent and as normal as possible. I would also be hyper aware when they are allowed back together and step up on the rules.


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## Caitydid255 (Aug 28, 2010)

Both dogs are required to follow commands for 48 hours in which they have to stay by my side; Sit, heel, down, stay, etc. The only break they get is when I let them outside, one at a time. All toys are also picked up, so there are no possible squabbles over them. The last fight was 100% Freyja's fault. Angus was sleeping and she walked up to him, stepped over him and bit him in the ear quite hard while growling. This resulted in both of them being scolded (all fights take two to tango) and Freyja being tethered to my waist for the rest of the day. 

Breaking up the fights, I step in between the two dogs (I might get bit, Oh well, better than injuries to the dogs) put my back to Angus and pick Freyja up, and walk away with her. Let me tell you, picking up a squirming, growling, 75lb animal when you have a torn rotator cuff is not easy. But within seconds she realizes that she's not going to win and starts to whimper and lick me. If either dog will not release I jam my fingers into their mouth and pry it open. We've only had 4 fights and luckily my husband was there for two of them to aid me. As he puts it "Mommy gets scary when she's mad."


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

I've only had one fight between my GSD and my Golden and the trigger was human error. Hubby and I each grabbed a dog by his back legs and pulled them apart. They were both in trouble because (IMO) 1) fighting isn't allowed 2) I screamed "Quit!" as soon as the started (gave an ugent command and it wasn't followed) 3) the focus off the other dog wasn't broken until we had them totally seperated. 

I removed the trigger and seperated the dogs for 24 hours. I stepped up simple commands that I know will be obeyed with out fail (sit, down etc.) and utilized them while using NILF. 

While Tug couldn't care less what happened 5 seconds after the fight, I had to wear Hondo pants for a couple of days. He hates making me cross. Therefore I made a big deal out of each reward provided to him.


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

The only problem I have is between Lakota (70lbs) & Apache (115lbs). He could pummle her, thank God he has no desire to fight. Grabbing her collar only sets her off into gremlin mode, so I try to defuse before it happens. I can tell when she's looking for trouble.
The last one was the worst, it happened by my husband, he grabbed her collar and she freaked out trying to get to Apache, she wouldn't let up. By this time I had gotten to the area and shouted NO (and what ever else came to mind) with a voice that could have woke the dead. I dont know what set her off. He continued to hold her till she settled down. Apache just looked at us like what the ----. Normally I would just go about my business and let every one settle down, but you could really feel the tension and she still looked unsettled (best word I could come up with). It was almost time to go to bed so I "come on lets go potty" and acted like everything was fine. They have a love/hate relationship. I can't keep them separated my house is too small. I don't allow them to chew bones together, I have to watch while they eat because Apache is a resource guarder (thats where she learned it from) not with people just other critters.
Apache can be very boisterous. He acts like a grizzly bear when it's time to go out. He messes with the girls, sounds really wild. Every once in a while he will piss Kiya off by blocking the doorway or tripping her up. She goes for him and I don't say a word because he deserves the "correction" she's giving him. But I guess thats not a "fight".
Then I think to myself he's going to be 9 (next week) for him to still act like a puppy like that I can't get mad at him, one day he just might loose that spark.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Since I have all intact females, I figure any fighting is my fault. I get them apart, clean and fix any wounds, and put them on antibiotics if necessary. Calm down. Kick myself a few times. I raise my level of vigilance with everyone. I do not hold it against bitches if they do fight. I do not make them tow the line. I probably will not let those two loose together again, if they are kenneled or crated next to each other, I might move dogs around to give them some distance. Intact bitches have some instincts, that being human, I do not fully understand. They are not all the same either, some have a higher level of various instincts/drives than others. It is up to me to keep them all safe.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

I bring them immediately back together, have them both lay down and correct any aggressive, dominant or confrontational behaviour. Separating them and keeping them apart will make things worse next time around. I used to work at a dog boarding kennel, and I have witnessed this first hand many times.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Wild Wolf said:


> I bring them immediately back together, have them both lay down and correct any aggressive, dominant or confrontational behaviour. Separating them and keeping them apart will make things worse next time around. I used to work at a dog boarding kennel, and I have witnessed this first hand many times.


 
This is exactly how things go at my house as well. things go back to normal VERY quickly this way


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

It really depends on the dog and the situation. Some dogs can blow it off and continue their happy little lives. Other's are "I hate you on sight and want to kill you".....
We had a lab at work who was (I can only speculate here) corrected for growling/warning. The lady used a dog walker during his puppy training.
He has since been ejected for Dominant Aggressive behavior and Resource Guarding.
Situation, we were standing in front of the gate and the dogs were in front of us. A young female brushed past this lab. That's all; just brushed into his space. No, lip curl, no growl, just a explosion of aggression (possibly dialated eyes---but I definitely missed that) he pinned her so fast it was unbelievable. She was squealing and the rest of the dogs came in (God I HATE squeaky toys). A boxer/pit mix came in fast to nip/peck at the female while the other handler was trying to pull this lab off (pits aren't the only dogs that lock on) I blocked her path and tried to stop the bull terrier. Jeez that guy was fast, he came in and grabbed that dog and full on shook her. All four of his feet were off the floor. All things considered he did better than the lab. As soon as I grabbed his scruff he released. That lab did not. It took a handler used to large dogs (Newfies and Leonburgers) two hands and hard tugging and he locked on.
I had the Lab removed and the Bull Terrier. (and the lab's victim) Sometimes you can re-introduce a dog back into the situation. The Lab, no; I just didn't feel comfortable with a dog with no warning system. The bull terrier, no; once a terrier gets into that "shake and kill"/prey mode it takes awhile to bring them back out of it. The best thing at this point would be to change his environment. (He has since been with the victim dog and no problem. He was only reacting in a normal pack environment. Normal prey action there.)

At home, there is no value on toys. I have two females different breeds but the size difference makes things a bit different. Raw bones are high value so they get them in their crates. If I'm playing tug with Zoey (little dog) Alice has to do a down stay otherwise she comes in and tries to run the show. Nope, not her job.
I have no problems with them at home for the most part.

P.S. I still love the term "Hondo Pants"


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

4TheDawgies said:


> This is exactly how things go at my house as well. things go back to normal VERY quickly this way


Also what I do. Within 60 seconds they are made to lay together touching. They usually lick each others wounds. Last fight was rough

Whoever puts their hands near a dogs mouth on a fight. You won't do that after you get a real full on defensive bite


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Have had a full defensive bite, one on the hand, and one on the leg, different fights. The last one was about 4 years ago -- the hand. It was a wicked swolen bloody stump. I still have an inch long scar.

I don't like pulling them apart. I don't like fights. They take too much out of me, and the dogs are hurt. I avoid them. It is not easy for one person to separate two intact bitches trying to kill each other.


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## jprice103 (Feb 16, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> Whoever puts their hands near a dogs mouth on a fight. You won't do that after you get a real full on defensive bite


Yeah, I learned firsthand last week that this is NOT a good idea!!


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ahhh - I don't see any descriptions of real fights - squabbles - but not down and out FIGHTS!

I have had 2 real fights - the kind where it takes 2-3 hours of surgery each to repair damage. You don't stick your fingers in mouths if you want to keep them....

Both fights - when I finally got one loose - I kicked and screamed for the loose one to get in the truck/crate - a command they all know - while holding the other aloft...and both KNEW my wrath - you can hit, slap, kick, strangle and scream at a bitch in a bitch fight and if they are focused enough, you make NO impression at all!!!!!!!!

Last real fight I had - faces had to be sewn together - eyelids split...legs had to be sutured and the skin on the chest was pulled away from the body and had to be bandaged for nearly 2 weeks...lots of punctures to flush and dress. 

A real fight is so horrifying - it makes me wonder about the humanity of people who make dogs fight on purpose!!!

Lee


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

wolfstraum said:


> ahhh - I don't see any descriptions of real fights - squabbles - but not down and out FIGHTS!
> 
> I have had 2 real fights - the kind where it takes 2-3 hours of surgery each to repair damage. You don't stick your fingers in mouths if you want to keep them....
> 
> ...


I've had 2 real fights. Last one was last weekend. Very bloody. Had a friend with me to help. They locked jaws and it took several minutes of intense constant pressure to seperate them. Friends leg got tagged good, all 4 canines punctured, as he was bracing himself with that leg forward to pull with. 

First real fight I was alone. Had katya over my shoulder, dragged them to the back door, Askas head pinned with my foot/leg. Eventually they lost the grip and I hurled katya inside far enough to get the door shut


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

wolfstraum said:


> ahhh - I don't see any descriptions of real fights - squabbles - but not down and out FIGHTS!
> 
> I have had 2 real fights - the kind where it takes 2-3 hours of surgery each to repair damage. You don't stick your fingers in mouths if you want to keep them....
> 
> ...


I have had two. Arwen and Jasmine, surgeries, bloody wounds, drains, bloody bite on my leg. 

And then the Arwen/Rushie fight that I got my hand in the middle of about 4 years ago -- that was not as insane crazy as the Arwen Jasmine fight. You would not have had those bitches lying down touching each other 60 seconds later. No way. I though my heart would explode. My legs were weak, I was ready to pass out. No, dog fights, real dog fights. are not anything to mess with. With 65 and 75 pounds of muscle, fangs and energy, is no joke to separate. 

I guess I am a bit anal about not wanting to deal with that again. One day I got home and Heidi's kennel must not have been secured properly and she was in the run with Jenna. She was fine, but the moment I reached in to pet Jenna -- they had the patio and the room, I saw there were two of them, and they both came and Jenna started to go for Heidi (I'm a pretty big resource), and I would have broken the chair over her to stop her if I had to. I managed to get that one stopped without casualties.

I thought I saw Tori going for one of the older pups, and I took no chances, grabbed the tail and hauled ass, literally. Once she was in her kennel I relaxed. Once Babs and Whitney were together, forgot to close Babs' crate when I let Whit out, but they were fine together, and I just nonchalantly got a kennel gate between the two and thanked my lucky stars.

I agree, the idea that people set dogs against each other on purpose is repulsive. Adrenalin junkies maybe.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

yes - you would not consider making the dogs lie next to each other if you had a real fight - you would not want them to ever lay eyes on one another again after thinking one or both would be dead before the fight would end!!!!

there were 2 reasons that I placed Kyra in a retirement home....that there was not enough time that my helper would even give her a few bites anymore because I would not be trialing her again, and she hated staying home more than anything when I loaded up to go to training, and that I would not risk another fight - she had squeezed out a truck window to go after Csabre - the two fights were when one/ both were or were ready to come in season - and even spayed, I did not trust them not to try to kill each other as grudges were definitely held!

Lee


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

A bit off topic, but... what is everyone's take on dog-aggression and fighting, is it genetic? Are there lines which are more DA than others? For the past 15 years or so I've always had two bitches, and thankfully, I have not had to deal with much serious fighting. I used to have a bitch that would attack my older dog when she was in heat, but after her spay she never did it again.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I think separating them and letting them stew on it will create a grudge. Same reason if you put a dog away hot without a bite he'll remember it next session


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

Wild Wolf said:


> I bring them immediately back together, have them both lay down and correct any aggressive, dominant or confrontational behaviour. Separating them and keeping them apart will make things worse next time around. I used to work at a dog boarding kennel, and I have witnessed this first hand many times.


This is also what I do when things are getting a little crazy (excited) or heated.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Freestep said:


> A bit off topic, but... what is everyone's take on dog-aggression and fighting, is it genetic? Are there lines which are more DA than others? For the past 15 years or so I've always had two bitches, and thankfully, I have not had to deal with much serious fighting. I used to have a bitch that would attack my older dog when she was in heat, but after her spay she never did it again.


I think it depends on what type of dog aggression you are seeing. 

There are dogs that aggress toward anything with four legs, regardless of resident or non-resident, sex, color, size, demeaner.

There are dogs that aggress, only same sex, only with dogs in their pack, only with a certain physical type of dog, only with certain dogs, dependent on their status.

Some dogs react because they are afraid.

Some females aggress when they are in heat, coming into heat, pregnant, or lactating. 

Some males aggress when their is a bitch in heat somewhere. 

So I don't know. I think some dog aggression does have a genetic component, but I almost think it is more a pack order thing. And I think that sometimes it has as much to do with the leadership within the pack as it does with the dogs.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Both my females were fine with males. Kyra had lived with other females (Alice, Kelsey and Basha) for years. It was the pack order, young very strong female wanting to be THE boss, and heat. It was not dog aggression - it was hormones - but with very very strong females...

Basha and Furious (also mother/daughter) could lie down together and snooze in full blown heat - just different characters and neither was concerned with being THE pack leader. Kyra and Basha never squabbled when one was in heat - but Kyra and Csabre hated each other.

Lee


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## jetscarbie (Feb 29, 2008)

I had a couple of dog books that I was reading. Not sure I agree...but in both it said that you should always get on to the submissive dog in the fight. You should make that dog lay or whatever.....and coddle and give affection to the dominate dog. It said in the books that 2 or more dogs in the house fighting...are usually always over the pecking order. It said that most fights break out b/c owners usually break the pecking order with dogs....it said that owners should always give top dog the top dog respect by giving them first of everything (feeding them first, petting them first, letting them out the door after you first,) it said if you don't, both dogs see an opening. Dominate dog feels threatened of his spot which then makes him lash out at the other dog in question....and submissive dog feels like you want it to be leader b/c you are giving it top dog's spot. 

Like I've said, not sure if this is true or not but I have read this theory in a few books in the last couple of months. They all seem to echo this. Maybe they are outdated theories?

It just seems like you would be reinforcing their behaviour with this method.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

jetscarbie said:


> It said that most fights break out b/c owners usually break the pecking order with dogs....it said that owners should always give top dog the top dog respect by giving them first of everything (feeding them first, petting them first, letting them out the door after you first,) it said if you don't, both dogs see an opening. Dominate dog feels threatened of his spot which then makes him lash out at the other dog in question....and submissive dog feels like you want it to be leader b/c you are giving it top dog's spot.


That is very true. Well meaning dog owners tend to want things to be "fair" in human terms--not in DOG tems, which is a mistake. They think the submissive dog is getting "picked on", so they correct the dominant dog and coddle the submissive one. That will build resentment and stress, which in turn causes fighting.

When I've broken up spats, BOTH dogs get corrections and are made to lie down. Fortunately, I haven't had to break up anything serious.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Sasha has never gotten into a fight, but she almost did once. I was watching this black lab X border collie, and it turns out she is a HUGE resource guarder, as in anything and everything is a resource: toys, humans, you name it. She was happy to play with Sasha as long as I wasn't watching or there were no toys on the ground, otherwise she'd snap and snarl at her. Sasha does not seem to understand this kind of behavior, and if it's a dog that I've invited into the house she'll just take it and do something else. However, I had walked over to do something in the kitchen, Sasha came over by me and I patted her head. Well this other dog snapped across me, and apparently Sasha had had enough so she leaped forward and started barking and growling. So what I did was give them a time out. I threw Sasha in my brother's room and put this other dog in Sasha's crate and let them chill for a while. When I let them out again they were fine, and any indication on the other dog's part that she was gonna get nasty was shut down.


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## Zisso (Mar 20, 2009)

I break them up and then watch/supervise but allow them to interact right away. If I remember (been a few months) I scold them both. If I feel the fight is really bad I will crate them until we all calm down. Most important in the dynamics is me maintaining a cool head. Tough to do when they are fighting but I am getting better at it. I don't let them stay outside alone, but there are spots in the yard that I can't see them so I may not know really who started it.


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## LDB158 (Jan 25, 2010)

My newest addition, male labrador, and my male shepherd have gotten in a couple of fights. The first fight was outside and I should have realized it was about to upgrade to a fight. My shepherd was walking around about to relieve himself, and my lab kept jumping on him, trying to dominate him I believe. I ended up spraying them both with the hose which separated them and I made them both lay down and stay near each other for a minute. The other fight was inside and I hear Bear growl, which at that point, I should have stepped in, but next thing I know, my shepherd jumped on him. I took my female shepherd to the kitchen so she couldn't join in the fight, and the other two separated after about 5 seconds at which time i grabbed one of them and made him lay down and I made the other one lay down. 

Both times, after I let them get up, they were fine with each other, licking each other like they were sorry. And luckily, both times, there were no injuries. The way they were going at it, you would have thought one of them would have been seriously injured. I have been watching them extra carefully lately. Today, I heard one of them growl, I am not even sure which one, and i jumped up which made them both stare at me and they both laid down on the floor. 

Now when I take them outside, we play fetch which they both seem to enjoy, and they quit their dominating and mounting each other act. They just run and grab the toys that I throw. I was worried there may be a fight over the toys, but they have been doing great so far. They love it! 

My female and male shepherd absolutely love each other. I can't even tell you the last time they were in a fight. And my female shepherd and male lab have luckily yet to be in a fight. I think he submits to her, whereas, to my male shepherd, he is playing the domination game with him.


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