# Training - NEVER hand off your leash !



## GSDPERRO (Nov 12, 2015)

I have a 16 week old working line puppy whom I decided to take to 1 on 1 training at the place I take my dogs to the vet. They have a full time trainer on staff who supposedly graduated top of their class at Tom Rose. I went in and explained that I was interested in doing Rally and maybe obedience with him and would like for him to help me work on competition heeling . 

My pup is the boldest, most willing little guy... He has great eye contact and flies into a down or sit until releases and just tries so hard to even when he doesn't understand, he will happily start offering behaviors... 

After walking in with my pup I realize I had forgotten my treats in the car. The trainer said "I will hold him for you" and I walk all the way back outside and down to my car and then back in which took maybe 7-8 minutes. When I am near the door I hear yelping, I can see in the window that the trainer is walking my puppy and is not just letting him hit the end of the line but giving him very sharp corrections, shart enough to flip the puppy off his feet. I open the door and immediately go over and take the leash, I am so angry I know I best not speak. Look down and realize that this SOB has put a prong collar on my puppy. He has been flipping my puppy around on the prong collar. A puppy that had no idea how to heal. The trainer says "what's up where are you going?" I take off the prong and for just a split second am tempted to throw it at him but somehow manage to keep my cool and lay it down without saying a word. I got home and the pup is just fine but I am not. I just want to explode, I am just so angry at myself. I know better than to hand off my dog and it is not a mistake I will ever make again.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

I would have killed someone. You need to make a complaint to the vet. The top trainers in the country do NOT train like that.


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## bassun (Dec 3, 2018)

Jax08 said:


> I would have killed someone. You need to make a complaint to the vet. The top trainers in the country do NOT train like that.


I don't think I could have handled myself as gracefully. Good on you! I 100% agree with Jax -- I would absolutely make a complaint and with vigor. I would have been LIVID to say the least. That's family he's abusing. I get prongs, and I get corrections -- but there is a time, a place and a level of expectation and correction. I would have been quite rude to say the least.


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## GSDPERRO (Nov 12, 2015)

Yes, there is a time and a place for a prong but a 16 week old puppy trying to learn is not it. I'm still seething and that prong did come pretty close to becoming a flying object aimed right at his head. I know this guy does a ton of in board training too. I'm trying to figure out the most effective way of making a review that will get noticed by anyone who might want to board and train with him... I can only imagine how he must behave if no one is there to watch him. So sad.


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## CometDog (Aug 22, 2017)

A 4 month old puppy? I don't even want to say what I would have done with that prong. Sorry that happened, yes I would complain too.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

Unbelievable.I'll help you put that prong where it truly belongs @CometDog


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## bassun (Dec 3, 2018)

GSDPERRO said:


> Yes, there is a time and a place for a prong but a 16 week old puppy trying to learn is not it. I'm still seething and that prong did come pretty close to becoming a flying object aimed right at his head. I know this guy does a ton of in board training too. I'm trying to figure out the most effective way of making a review that will get noticed by anyone who might want to board and train with him... I can only imagine how he must behave if no one is there to watch him. So sad.


I cannot say how to best make the review - but I can say that when I read reviews I look for actual experiences vs general chatter. To that end, if I were writing a review I would tell the story exactly as it unfolded, including your emotions and fears. 

I agree that if he is that aggressive with a NEW customer and a NEW PUPPY; all while you expected him to simply be keeping the dog while you got treats for POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT -- I would only imagine his technique is even more harsh alone. But that is speculative. He may train exactly the same all the time. Hopefully, he is just learning how to curtail training to meet the needs of the individual dog and with experience will turn into a great trainer. Maybe he just doesn't know better yet. ... ... ... Maybe he needs a prong collar and some very stiff corrections...


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## GSDPERRO (Nov 12, 2015)

I will wait awhile before posting a review to allow my emotions to calm down. I did call to complain and the receptionist asked what I was calling about before they could have a vet return my call. When I briefly explained the girl said "yea, he was not in a good mood when he came in yesterday" I wanted to say maybe he should check his emotions at the door or not train but I found myself too angry again and just bit my tongue. 

It feels good to vent to people who understand. Thanks


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

It's illegal to carry a shovel and rope in your trunk, so I will bring the shovel. >
I have had similar experiences over the years and it sucks. 
I would copy exactly what you wrote in your post as a review.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

GSDPERRO said:


> I will wait awhile before posting a review to allow my emotions to calm down. I did call to complain and the receptionist asked what I was calling about before they could have a vet return my call. When I briefly explained the girl said "yea, he was not in a good mood when he came in yesterday" I wanted to say maybe he should check his emotions at the door or not train but I found myself too angry again and just bit my tongue.
> 
> It feels good to vent to people who understand. Thanks


There is zero room for negative emotion in dog training. Thats w known basic. And he put a correction collar on your puppy without permission or your knowledge. Then proceeded to issue UNFAIR and over the top corrections. Your puppy had no idea why he was being corrected, especially that viciously. 

He will ruin dogs of all ages that way.

When you speak to the vet, make sure to tell them there will be an online review. And tell them you will be sending them the training bill to fix what that trainer created. That will make them think a little more about those practices.

This person should not be getting paid to train dogs. I know others who went thru that 2 WEEK school and they all train that way thinking they are now experts. Slap a prong on and yank the drive put of the dog. That's exactly how my first shepherd was ruined.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

bassun said:


> ... Hopefully, he is just learning how to curtail training to meet the needs of the individual dog and with experience will turn into a great trainer. Maybe he just doesn't know better yet. ... ... ... Maybe he needs a prong collar and some very stiff corrections...


Great trainers connect with the animals they train. This guy, IMHO, will never make it!

Too bad he can't be shut down immediately rather than just receiving a bad review!


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

I had a vet man handle my 8 week old pup that I had for only two days. Very upsetting glad you got out of there. Yeah people should know about the knowledge this trainer has. I would visit another vet and make sure he has a good experience there with lots of treats.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

If you pup was popped so hard to be knocked off of his feet, I would call your vet and insist that his neck and overall structure be examined at that trainer's expense or at no charge. And I would want a copy of that exam for my own records. that request is not unreasonable and would drive the point in.

I'm glad he is ok.


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## middleofnowhere (Dec 20, 2000)

This brings back a bad memory.... And the anger and frustration that accompanied that experience. If I had it to do over again, I would make a point to go back and tell the trainer 1. This is what he agreed to do (hold the puppy for you while you went to your car) 2. He had no right to place a prong on your dog without your explicit permission 3. He most certainly had no right to do ANY training with your dog without your explicit permission and presence 4. He had even less right to correct your pup. So basically, verbally rearrange his anatomy significantly.


So I would not just complain with the organization, I would not only leave a review but I would confront the person head-on.


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## bassun (Dec 3, 2018)

tim_s_adams said:


> Great trainers connect with the animals they train. This guy, IMHO, will never make it!
> 
> Too bad he can't be shut down immediately rather than just receiving a bad review!


Sadly, you are probably right. I was trying to be optimistic. People make mistakes, heck - I even thought I made one, once...but I was wrong. >

But seriously, there's little chance he doesn't train somewhere at some point - hopefully, he becomes a better human than this.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

GSDPERRO said:


> I will wait awhile before posting a review to allow my emotions to calm down. I did call to complain and the receptionist asked what I was calling about before they could have a vet return my call. When I briefly explained the girl said "yea, he was not in a good mood when he came in yesterday" I wanted to say maybe he should check his emotions at the door or not train but I found myself too angry again and just bit my tongue.
> 
> It feels good to vent to people who understand. Thanks



said "yea, he was not in a good mood when he came in yesterday" 

This is also concerning, did the staff witness harsh inappropriate treatment and say nothing to him the day before you brought your pup in. Very concerning. A warning to him from them may have prevented your bad experience.

Had to bring this up as it was bugging me.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Just proves even more how unprofessional and how much he has to learn. We may not all operate on our best on certain days but to take it out in a pup. It speaks volumes.


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## Heartandsoul (Jan 5, 2012)

One of the first things my trainer instilled in me when mine was a pup was never train while in a bad mood. I think his words were "just don't do it!"

As Middleofnowhere said and it's hitting home for me as well. Bad experience remembered reading this thread.

I'm sure your guy is fine though.


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