# Alpine K9



## Mike R. (Sep 29, 2020)

I have been looking for a reputable working line breeder for some time now and I would like some advice. Most of the forums that I've been reading can only send PMs when discussing their opinions on breeders/trainers. I live in AZ and have been looking at Alpine K9. Does anyone have any experience with this breeder? So far he seems knowledgeable and legitimate. Any recommendations for working line breeders would be much appreciated.

Thank you!


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## ChickiefromTN (Jun 16, 2020)

Mike R. said:


> I have been looking for a reputable working line breeder for some time now and I would like some advice. Most of the forums that I've been reading can only send PMs when discussing their opinions on breeders/trainers. I live in AZ and have been looking at Alpine K9. Does anyone have any experience with this breeder? So far he seems knowledgeable and legitimate. Any recommendations for working line breeders would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thank you!


Very good breeder and outstanding working dogs. He just announced an upcoming litter a couple of days ago. I know some that are turned off by his curt, matter of fact manner, but you could not ask for a more knowledgeable guy. In my experience he will take the time to share that knowledge with you and I have learned a lot from him over the years. World class dogs!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

My pup has a lot of Alpine K9 in his pedigree, and he’s an amazing dog.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Even a broken clock is right 2x a day..........I know several people who have dealt with him........complicated.....when you can do PMs, or if you are on FB - please contact me................

Lee

von wolfstraum on FB


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I see no objective evidence of world class dogs. World class self promotion, yes.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ins0ma said:


> My pup has a lot of Alpine K9 in his pedigree, and he’s an amazing dog.
> View attachment 563887


What Alpine k9 dogs are in the pedigree? Do you mind posting it?


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

_MOD Reminder - please share your criticisms privately._


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> What Alpine k9 dogs are in the pedigree? Do you mind posting it?


Sure thing!


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ins0ma said:


> Sure thing!
> 
> View attachment 563920


What was your breeders description their Alpine female?


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

Bearshandler said:


> What was your breeders description their Alpine female?


From their website:
“Czech Republic German Shepherd with Czech border patrol lineage, Geeta is an ideal candidate for the serious owner that desires to train in obedience, search and rescue, or protection.”

The breeder is Zimmerhoff German Shepherds, in Oregon.
I’d love to know what you or anybody the other enthusiasts here think of the pedigree. I’m not planning on doing any breeding, this is a family pet. Before Covid I had thoughts of trying to do dog sports with him but that’s pretty much out of the picture for now.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

I'm not offering up jack without pictures.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)




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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

You're too eager! Lol But I will send you some stuff on some of those dogs in a PM. I think I might have information on Cindy.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

IMO, the Alpine/Jinopo market is naive pet owners with a fair share doing low quality PP training.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Is a visit to the breeder possible? if so, go talk to the guy, see the dogs for yourself, and then go from there.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Looking at dogs tells you little about them. You need someone to work them in obedience and bite work who is skilled and depending on the interested party’s knowledge, such a demonstration might not tell him much.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

It’s a little confusing for me, since I read about how important genetics are in post after post, but when I’ve posted my pedigree all of a sudden no one can tell me anything about the genetics, or heritable traits.
I’ve also sensed a bit of hostility, which I could just be imagining, but I’m guessing it might be because I’m an admitted family pet owner, not a high speed Shutzhund or IFP competitor.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

No hostility and no real enthusiasm regarding the pedigree. There are a lot of people breeding Czech lines and think simply because the pedigrees contain dogs from Czech lines they are something special.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ins0ma said:


> It’s a little confusing for me, since I read about how important genetics are in post after post, but when I’ve posted my pedigree all of a sudden no one can tell me anything about the genetics, or heritable traits.
> I’ve also sensed a bit of hostility, which I could just be imagining, but I’m guessing it might be because I’m an admitted family pet owner, not a high speed Shutzhund or IFP competitor.


I’m out with my own dogs. I’ll take a look when I get home.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> No hostility and no real enthusiasm regarding the pedigree. There are a lot of people breeding Czech lines and think simply because the pedigrees contain dogs from Czech lines they are something special.


I see. Fortunately for me there are others here who don’t see it that way. I won’t trouble you for your opinions any further, thank you.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Your dog is a nice looking boy. There are some good dogs further back that you will see in a lot of pedigrees.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

ins0ma said:


> It’s a little confusing for me, since I read about how important genetics are in post after post, but when I’ve posted my pedigree all of a sudden no one can tell me anything about the genetics, or heritable traits.
> I’ve also sensed a bit of hostility, which I could just be imagining, but I’m guessing it might be because I’m an admitted family pet owner, not a high speed Shutzhund or IFP competitor.


You already have the dog, so the pedigree is what it is. What do you see in the dog that you like or dislike? 

What can you share with others about the dog in front of you that will help them make a decision?


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

David Winners said:


> You already have the dog, so the pedigree is what it is. What do you see in the dog that you like or dislike?
> 
> What can you share with others about the dog in front of you that will help them make a decision?


I guess I’ve been interested in what’s in his pedigree, because I’ve read so many seemingly knowledge people talk about the importance of genetics. Some have even said that when it comes to things like protection drive, it’s all about the genetics. I’m sure you seen similar posts. So for my part, I’ve been curious about what my pup’s genetics suggest about his inherited characteristics. I also think that certain dogs have known genetic issues, so if there was an increased chance of a health issue, for example, it might be useful to know ahead of time.
As far as my pup, I’d be happy to share some of my observations.

We got him at the end of January, before the outbreak. He was about 15 weeks old when we brought him home, and the breeder picked him for us because of our young children. He described the pup as being medium drive and calm, well suited for life around my kids. From the first time I let him go in our fenced back yard, he came running to me when I whistled, or clapped, or made any sounds, really. He started responding to his name very quickly, was crate trained when we took him home, and old had about 3 potty accidents inside the house before he figured out how to ask to be let out.

He loves playing with the flirt pole, chasing balls and frisbee and sticks, and is pretty good about retrieving toys and delivering them back to my feet when we play 2 ball. He’s still a bit rebellious playing fetch sometimes, and still tries to start playing keep away sometimes. The game is over when he does that. He prefers playing to any kind of treat I’ve found so far, so it can be tricky trying to lure him with treats.
He doesn’t seem to like other dogs much, although it could be due to the Covid restrictions. We haven’t had much chance to socialize with man nor beast since March, so I know we’ll have some work to do there.

We managed to get about 3 training sessions with him before the school shut down, and he responded well, but barked a lot at the other dogs.

He took no time at all to learn basic obedience commands, although he’s not as obedient with the rest of the family as he is with me. That’s probably my only real complaint, he’s selective with who he obeys.
He’s 11 months old now, and right about 75 pounds.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

It's a good idea to have other family members do some training sessions with him so that he can generalize his obedience to them.

And watch those sticks! I had two incidents where my dogs spiked them into the ground and into the backs of their throats. A friend had his dog get impaled in the throat by a stick thrown to him.


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

ins0ma said:


> I guess I’ve been interested in what’s in his pedigree, because I’ve read so many seemingly knowledge people talk about the importance of genetics. Some have even said that when it comes to things like protection drive, it’s all about the genetics. I’m sure you seen similar posts. So for my part, I’ve been curious about what my pup’s genetics suggest about his inherited characteristics. I also think that certain dogs have known genetic issues, so if there was an increased chance of a health issue, for example, it might be useful to know ahead of time.
> As far as my pup, I’d be happy to share some of my observations.
> 
> We got him at the end of January, before the outbreak. He was about 15 weeks old when we brought him home, and the breeder picked him for us because of our young children. He described the pup as being medium drive and calm, well suited for life around my kids. From the first time I let him go in our fenced back yard, he came running to me when I whistled, or clapped, or made any sounds, really. He started responding to his name very quickly, was crate trained when we took him home, and old had about 3 potty accidents inside the house before he figured out how to ask to be let out.
> ...


It sounds like you are happy with your puppy! That's a great thing. I urge you to continue posting about your journey with your dog so others can learn.

IMO, there is no replacement for genetics. They are the foundation of the dog. When you have good nerves, you don't deal with fear based issues. When you have genetic drive, you don't deal with as many training issues. When you have a naturally biddable dog, you don't deal with "stubborn" behaviors. When you have good structure, you don't deal with orthopaedic issues. When you have no genetic disposition for disease you don't deal with genetic disorders.

When your goal is to have a great family companion, you need the right combination of those things. Everyone wants a healthy dog. Everyone benefits from sound structure and lack of genetic disease. Everyone benefits from a biddable dog who just wants to do the right thing. Energy level and drive separate the well bred working dogs from the well bred pet dogs.

How many hours a day are you willing to spend on your dog? Are you prepared to deal with a dog that will challenge you? The same dog that will fight a man after being shot 4 times will have that same tenacity towards you if not handled properly. Are you able to work a dog 3,4,5 times a day to meet its stimulation and physical requirements? Do you have the need for this type of dog?

These are all genetic things. You can't take a high drive, high energy, sharp dog and make it a golden retriever through training. Nor can you make a low drive, low energy dog a military working dog. Yes, genetics matter, but it's before you choose the dog. After you have chosen to feed it, the dog is what it is and you, like everyone else, just do the best you can with the dog in front of you.


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## dogma13 (Mar 8, 2014)

David's post really says it all.I think it would make a good sticky.


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

@Mike R. you still there?
Although this information may still be of interest to you, i don’t want your initial request for Alpine K9 feedback and breeder recommendations to get lost...


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ins0ma said:


> From their website:
> “Czech Republic German Shepherd with Czech border patrol lineage, Geeta is an ideal candidate for the serious owner that desires to train in obedience, search and rescue, or protection.”
> 
> The breeder is Zimmerhoff German Shepherds, in Oregon.
> I’d love to know what you or anybody the other enthusiasts here think of the pedigree. I’m not planning on doing any breeding, this is a family pet. Before Covid I had thoughts of trying to do dog sports with him but that’s pretty much out of the picture for now.


I asked about your breeders description of his alpine k9 female because I think it could give some good inside into the type of dogs being produced. Granted, you need to consider the source when you get information like that. I doubt you would ever hear someone talk negatively about a dog in their breeding program, and if they didn’t think highly of the dogs they were breeding that would raise a whole lot of other questions. One person’s high drive dog may not be anything at all to some one else. I just say that for general information, nothing against or about your breeder.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Bearshandler said:


> I asked about your breeders description of his alpine k9 female because I think it could give some good inside into the type of dogs being produced. Granted, you need to consider the source when you get information like that. I doubt you would ever hear someone talk negatively about a dog in their breeding program, and if they didn’t think highly of the dogs they were breeding that would raise a whole lot of other questions. One person’s high drive dog may not be anything at all to some one else. I just say that for general information, nothing against or about your breeder.



THIS should be a stickey! ☝


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## David Winners (Apr 30, 2012)

To continue:

A great family pet needs a couple things. Very solid nerves and very good (not sharp) temperament. These things can be present in a dog of any drive and energy level. A high drive, high energy dog can, and hopefully does, have solid nerves and a stable temperament. An incredibly active dog can be happy and successful in an incredibly active home, without formal sports or work. The dog needs a job, but that can be anything that fits into your lifestyle.

A moderate energy dog can fit into most active families. An off leash adventure and a couple training sessions a day with the occasional zoomie relief will do to keep them satisfied. Be ready to head outside and throw a ball when the dog needs it.

Drive is separate from energy. A high energy dog needs a lot of exercise several times a day. A high drive dog means the desire for something is great. Drive is about motivation, not duration. 

These are things to address when speaking honestly to a breeder about a puppy. Take the time to access your lifestyle and decide if you are willing to get up at 5 in the morning so you have the time to work the dog before you go to work at 7:30, in the rain and/or snow. 

Getting the right dog leads to stress free life. If you want a dog that will chill for most of the day and go for a walk and play 10 minutes of fetch, be honest with the breeder. If you want to hike, dock dive, SCH, OB, Nosework, agility and trick train, be honest and live up to it. Dogs come in many flavors. Finding the one you like takes some soul searching.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

I’ve been walking him between 4-6 miles a day, at a brisk pace, with lots of time spent climbing on and over logs, trails, little creek beds, etc. All of this is on the leash, with him in a loose heel. We spend a lot of time playing fetch with him in the back yard, and have taken him on tons of camping trips and day trips to the pacific coast, rivers, and lakes around our area. There’s a couple of big baseball fields in my neighborhood where I use a Chuck it ball launcher, and let him run free a few times a week. It makes my heart happy to see him run full out, and his recall has been great. Granted, it’s a fenced field, so it’s pretty safe for him. I’m not comfortable playing with him off leash like that if there’s any risk of him being too close to cars, or other dogs and people. When other dogs come near him when we’re playing, he runs them off pretty aggressively. Happily he’s always responded to “leave it” and has never injured another dog, just chased them away, barking and nipping. As far as his toys, when I said “sticks” before, I meant synthetic ones. I’ve read about safe toys, and don’t use tennis balls, wooden sticks, or anything he might chew up and swallow wrong or anything like that. Having 2 young kids, we’re already in the habit of researching safe toys. 

He always wants to play but is pretty good about chilling out when I tell him “enough.” He’s always good natured about going into his crate, and does so without being told around the same time every night.

We’ve had no opportunity to test his protectiveness, but it sure seems like there’s some very real potential there. When his hackles raise, even just chasing squirrels, it’s pretty impressive, and his bark makes my ears ring when he’s being loud. The variety of sounds he makes is frankly astonishing, and his way of snapping his teeth really gets your attention. He barks furiously when people ring the doorbell or knock on the door, and everyone who meets him seems at least a bit frightened by him at first. His bark is really something! It certainly seems like he would take action if someone were try to threaten one of us or our property.

He was only mouthy for about the first week we had him. After I made a point of yelping loudly every time I felt his teeth, he started being gentle pretty much right away. He’s great with my kids, even with my 5 year old boy who torments him. While he doesn’t seem to take my other family members as seriously as he does me, he also doesn’t do a whole lot wrong, besides getting demanding and loud when he wants something. He’ll bark and gently nip at my wife when he wants to go out, or sometimes when he wants to play, but she’s always been able to tell him to go to his crate when she doesn’t want to deal with him being demanding. Again, he’s 11 months old, so I’m figuring a lot of this is adolescence...


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

I understand why you ask about alpine k9. I will say that will all the information, the statements about Hans, and statements by hand himself, you should be able to find the answer you are looking for.


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## Mike R. (Sep 29, 2020)

Fodder said:


> @Mike R. you still there?
> Although this information may still be of interest to you, i don’t want your initial request for Alpine K9 feedback and breeder recommendations to get lost...


Yes, I've been reading through a lot of these posts and even some are slightly off topic I find all the information very helpful and interesting. I'm going to try and meet with the breeder (Alpine K9) within the next week or so and try to learn more from him.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

ins0ma said:


> From their website:
> “Czech Republic German Shepherd with Czech border patrol lineage, Geeta is an ideal candidate for the serious owner that desires to train in obedience, search and rescue, or protection.”


No trouble. The early z Pohranicni Straze (Czech border patrol lineage) were very different from the later zPS and last of the zPS dogs. This is a marketing tool similar to the marketing of DDR dogs and is targeting pet homes. That is not to say there were not some very good dogs from zPS lines, but they were originally bred as military dogs with military handlers, so if you think about that and how now, they are touted as great family pets, that tells you something. And what is "a serious owner?"


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

Chip Blasiole said:


> No trouble. The early z Pohranicni Straze (Czech border patrol lineage) were very different from the later zPS and last of the zPS dogs. This is a marketing tool similar to the marketing of DDR dogs and is targeting pet homes. That is not to say there were not some very good dogs from zPS lines, but they were originally bred as military dogs with military handlers, so if you think about that and how now, they are touted as great family pets, that tells you something. And what is "a serious owner?"


If I had to guess, I'd say that a "serious owner" would be one who spends time training and exercising the animal, compared to someone who just wants a lapdog to play with once in a while.


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## cmacc (Jul 13, 2020)

I'd think a "serious owner" would need to have a fair amount of dog sense outside of just training and exercising their dog. Even with the best intentions if you can't read the dog in front of you, there can be some serious consequences. With these dogs life can be a 24/7 balancing act.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

I think the term "serious owner" is intentionally vague with the conscious or unconscious intention of creating an impression that the dogs are serious/aggressive. I'm sure some are, but why not be more specific and less ambiguous. Many police/military/sport people are unfamiliar or uninterested in zPS lines, just as with "DDR" lines. My dog has several zPS dogs further back in his pedigree which had no impact on my decision to go with his breeding.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

Mike R. said:


> Yes, I've been reading through a lot of these posts and even some are slightly off topic I find all the information very helpful and interesting. I'm going to try and meet with the breeder (Alpine K9) within the next week or so and try to learn more from him.


It’ll interesting to hear your impressions if you’re inclined to share. This guy seems to be a pretty polarizing figure. When I reached out about my dog’s pedigree, he directed me to a page on his website where I could pay him for pedigree analysis. It’s his right to do that, of course, but I’ve since found other people much more willing to talk about these dogs without charging for the privilege. There is a forum specifically about his line of dogs but go there at your own risk. There’s a lot of hostility.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

$$$
A quick look at my dog's pedigree and I found these zPS dogs and the list is not inclusive:
Drago-1960
Alma-1960
Dan-1963
Cigo
Ista
Alta
Zina
Brony-1970
Lesna-1972
Sim-1976
Nela-1976
Gama-1971
Kete-1976
Greif-1977
Merz-1979
Bela
Iiona-1981
Nema-1983
Ora-1983
Kora
Ema-1982
Koran
Gabi-1984
Kaso-1988
Bojar-1985
Tina-1990
Grim-1992
Chayma-2001
Mambo-2002


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Regarding that pedigree......that is not a program pedigree...it is a buy dogs from all over and combine them....

MOSTLY West German and some Belgian.....Pike, Mic, Ellute/Tom, Vito - almost every sire line except one part on female side is West German/Belgian.... it is about 3/4 West German...very little old Czech blood at all...even Galen Naleg is ******/Tom - Jago/Mink and Task Milinda.....

edit to add... to the poster of the pedigree: Do you understand the concept of the old phrase "used car salesman"????? Glad you hit the roulette wheel spin and got a pup you are happy with - ....there are many other solid nice dogs in the pedigree - personally love the Galan Naleg dogs as I bred to a super nice one and my male by him is V rated, titled, and KKL....also a female in the litter was HGH titled and koered, a granddaughter was Reserve National Champion FH dog, and a professional detection dog and several more being titled ....super super versatile and great tempered dogs.....have grand kids from that breeding now and still super nice dogs,


sorry - no cigar....

Lee


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

wolfstraum said:


> Regarding that pedigree......that is not a program pedigree...it is a buy dogs from all over and combine them....
> 
> MOSTLY West German and some Belgian.....Pike, Mic, Ellute/Tom, Vito - almost every sire line except one part on female side is West German/Belgian.... it is about 3/4 West German...very little old Czech blood at all...even Galen Naleg is ******/Tom - Jago/Mink and Task Milinda.....
> 
> ...


What cigar do you think there’s supposed to be here? My original reply to the OP was that my dog has AlpineK9 is his pedigree... which he does. I never said anything beyond that about any Czech heritage or “old blood.”
I was asked to show my dog’s pedigree, so I did. I was then invited to describe my dog’s characteristics, so I did. It’s strange to me that these simple comments are controversial somehow.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> It's a good idea to have other family members do some training sessions with him so that he can generalize his obedience to them.
> 
> And watch those sticks! I had two incidents where my dogs spiked them into the ground and into the backs of their throats. A friend had his dog get impaled in the throat by a stick thrown to him.


My friends dog did the same and punctured a salivary gland in a freak accident. It swelled and nearly burst before they were able to get it removed.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Mike R. said:


> Yes, I've been reading through a lot of these posts and even some are slightly off topic I find all the information very helpful and interesting. I'm going to try and meet with the breeder (Alpine K9) within the next week or so and try to learn more from him.


That is a good idea. Get a good feeling for the breeder and kennel. I had them on my original list and decided they were not a match for my needs.


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

Another pic.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ins0ma said:


> If I had to guess, I'd say that a "serious owner" would be one who spends time training and exercising the animal, compared to someone who just wants a lapdog to play with once in a while.


If that doesn’t describe you, you shouldn’t be getting a German shepherd. When I ask about a dog, I want to hear about drive( prey, food, defense, hunt, etc), how biddable they are, their energy levels, how social they are with people or other dogs, what their thresholds are like. Those are things that tell me about the dog.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

ins0ma said:


> What cigar do you think there’s supposed to be here? My original reply to the OP was that my dog has AlpineK9 is his pedigree... which he does. I never said anything beyond that about any Czech heritage or “old blood.”
> I was asked to show my dog’s pedigree, so I did. I was then invited to describe my dog’s characteristics, so I did. It’s strange to me that these simple comments are controversial somehow.


Your breeders statement says that there are old Czech lines from greeta. Unless you plan on breeding, the pedigree stops mattering once you have the dog. At that point, it’s all about working with the dog you have. I didn’t mean for your dog yo become the subject of this thread, I only wanted to know what alpine k9 dogs were used, since I have never seen a breeder using alpine k9 dogs in their program.


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## MineAreWorkingline (May 2, 2015)

Greeta does bring some very nice old Czech lines. 🤷‍♀️


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

MineAreWorkingline said:


> Greeta does bring some very nice old Czech lines. 🤷‍♀️


I think that matches what was said.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

If you are referring to Geeta z Alpine K9, her sire Bady was a decent sport dog from what I have heard and mostly West German lines. Can't find anything on Geeta's dam, Cindy vom Alpine, but her sire line goes back to the older style, more defensive type of dogs and back to some very nice DDR dogs, so you would expect some aggression from this part of the pedigree with it becoming diluted the closer up the dogs in the pedigree are.


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Chip Blasiole said:


> If you are referring to Geeta z Alpine K9, her sire Bady was a decent sport dog from what I have heard and mostly West German lines. Can't find anything on Geeta's dam, Cindy vom Alpine, but her sire line goes back to the older style, more defensive type of dogs and back to some very nice DDR dogs, so you would expect some aggression from this part of the pedigree with it becoming diluted the closer up the dogs in the pedigree are.


I heard Bady was a top 5 sport dog in Europe at one point.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Where did you hear that? He was 17th at the 2011 Czech CACIT which is a small country. I'm not saying he didn't do well in IGP, but not in the top 5 in Europe and what has he produced?


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## Bearshandler (Aug 29, 2019)

Chip Blasiole said:


> Where did you hear that? He was 17th at the 2011 Czech CACIT which is a small country. I'm not saying he didn't do well in IGP, but not in the top 5 in Europe and what has he produced?


Chip, you know who said that.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

That's what I thought/


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## ins0ma (Feb 17, 2020)

[/QUOTE]


wolfstraum said:


> Regarding that pedigree......that is not a program pedigree...it is a buy dogs from all over and combine them....
> 
> edit to add... to the poster of the pedigree: Do you understand the concept of the old phrase "used car salesman"????? Glad you hit the roulette wheel spin and got a pup you are happy with - ....there are many other solid nice dogs in the pedigree -
> 
> ...


I’m the poster of the pedigree. It’s not clear what you’re trying to say here. 

Used car salesman? I take it you’re attempting to describe the AlpineK9 breeder? I personally have no connection at all with AlpineK9 except that the name appears on my dog’s pedigree. Again, I was asked to post the pedigree, which I would now be regretting were it not for the highly insightful info I received in a private conversation.

It might be significant that the mere mention of this breeder brings out such unpleasantness in people. I believe that’s what people mean when they talk about toxic behavior.

There’s no need for anyone to get nasty or unpleasant about any of this. We’re just talking about the dogs that we all love here.
Geez.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

ins0ma said:


> I’m the poster of the pedigree. It’s not clear what you’re trying to say here.
> 
> Used car salesman? I take it you’re attempting to describe the AlpineK9 breeder? I personally have no connection at all with AlpineK9 except that the name appears on my dog’s pedigree. Again, I was asked to post the pedigree, which I would now be regretting were it not for the highly insightful info I received in a private conversation.
> 
> ...


the point was not to criticize your dog AT ALL.....it was to point out that any zPS in your dog was very far back and restricted to about 1/8 of the pedigree.....that all those dogs I cited are considered very good dogs who have accomplished much in the sport....to understand why your dog is a nice dog - it should not be attributed to Alpine/Jinopo/zPS.... there was not toxic nastiness about your dog or it's pedigree.....just a quick breakdown of what kennels are prominant in the pedigree, what dogs are considered "good" and high profile....and that the zPS/Alpine is a very minor part of the pedigree.

Your perception of my comments was way different than the intention.

Lee


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## KevinK9 (Sep 27, 2020)

In regards to the following question:


Julian G said:


> Hi,
> I am curious to know if there are any known serious/hard gsd lines left and what they are. Thanks for any and all information.



Here is what, the very well respected, Cliff had to say:


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