# How do you socialize a schutzhund prospect puppy?



## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

I'm trying to further my knowledge by doing research now for when I get my second working dog and one question I have, is how does raising a puppy you plan to compete and work differ from that of a family GSD in regards to socialization with strangers, non strangers, other dogs etc. 
For example one club I went to was stern on the fact that they don't socialize they're puppies besides the people and dogs amongst the club and instilling the fact that you are the source of everything that is good in your dogs eyes as a handler. 
I think what would be ideal is that my future pup could care less for interaction with other people and dogs but at the same time Id like to do outdoor stuff such as camping and hiking so I don't see how to have that and him behave appropriately if I don't socialize him a ton. Do you see my contradiction and confusion? lol cuz my current WGSL is secretely a lab and wants to play and be friends with everything that moves (except cats)..


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

I don't really socialize my pups in the way that means seeking out people or dogs to play with...socializing to me, is introducing the dog to new experiences, textures, scents, sounds and letting the dog know I am the one to look to for 'excitement'and direction. I want my dogs to be neutral and aloof to others, dogs and people alike.
There is no reason a dog that trains in IPO can't be a family companion and do the same things pet dogs do(camping and hiking).


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

An ideal prospect (for me at least) usually doesn't need much socialization if any. Dogs with really nice temperaments are confident out of the box. Socialization is more something done with dogs that have a problem from the get go. People don't like to hear that but its the truth.

As for how you socialize the puppy it isn't that important. Be aware that direct contact with different people isn't necessary but it can be useful. You want your dog confident with strangers because you will often have to practice with new helpers and new decoys and it helps to have a confident dog so that they will be able to do the work even if they're looking at a total stranger at an end of a leash or wearing the sleeve. It's always a little embarrassing to have a dog that is too nervy to work with someone new without warming up.

You just really want to take steps to avoid bad experiences and chalk up good ones, but if you have a really nice solid dog it won't really matter the dog will turn out fine.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

onyx'girl said:


> I don't really socialize my pups in the way that means seeking out people or dogs to play with...socializing to me, is introducing the dog to new experiences, textures, scents, sounds and letting the dog know I am the one to look to for 'excitement'and direction. I want my dogs to be neutral and aloof to others, dogs and people alike.
> There is no reason a dog that trains in IPO can't be a family companion and do the same things pet dogs do(camping and hiking).


I agree. This is what I did. It's more about exposing your dog to the world. I don't want mine to play with everyone and every dog. But surfaces, sounds, scents, different objects.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

I let Crank play with all the board and train dogs or any dogs under my direct supervision. He plays with Zebu. He can meet and greet anybody as long as we aren't working or going somewhere with purpose. When it is work time it is work time. All that silly Leerburg talk about dogs becoming "doggy" is just that, it's talk. When you train the right way the dogs know when it's time to focus and get down to brass tacks.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Baillif said:


> I let Crank play with all the board and train dogs or any dogs under my direct supervision. He plays with Zebu. He can meet and greet anybody as long as we aren't working or going somewhere with purpose. When it is work time it is work time. All that silly Leerburg talk about dogs becoming "doggy" is just that, it's talk. When you train the right way the dogs know when it's time to focus and get down to brass tacks.


And as far as strangers and non strangers? Do you limited that interaction or is it irrelevant? I socialized my current girl to every type of person that exists that I was able to think of so now she is very approachable and not necessarily indifferent, more so, that she LOVES attention from new people.

As mentioned, it seems like a good balance for socialization is more of just a lot of exposure as oppose to encouraging actual physical interaction?

I love that my girl is social and that's her personality, but is it wrong that I don't want my next dog to be as approachable, but instead aloof and more neutral??


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

DMS92 - there are a thousand ways to get to the same place and nothing is as simple as it's portrayed to be on an internet forum. I don't know what this "silly Leerburg talk" is referring too and don't care. I have an excellent trainer and excellent support so I'll continue doing it my way.

You need to teach your puppy when she can go to a person to say hi. she shouldn't just be running up to someone willy nilly for attention. You send her to greet. 

My dog can play with our dogs at the house. He does not need to play with strange dogs nor dogs at training. There is a huge difference between the two and setting the criteria on what is allowed early is crucial to all aspects of training. Puppies at the club play together. Young dogs and adult dogs do not. So find a set of dogs your dog can play with. Whether it's the ones she lives with or friends dogs.

As far as socialization, yes I would say it exposure rather than physical interaction.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

> I love that my girl is social and that's her personality, but is it wrong that I don't want my next dog to be as approachable, but instead aloof and more neutral??


To an extent, your blurring temperament and training. A friendly dog is a friendly dog, teaching her how you want her to behave, thats not going to change her temperament. What I do all depends on the dog. My friendly, social dog enjoys contact from people, so I let him have contact with people. My nervy one has limits on what he can handle, so I keep him close, but just a little bit out of reach. I match everything to what their temperament is.


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## Persinette (Jan 31, 2015)

Leerburg has a great video called 'Raising a Working Puppy'. It's over an hour long and has great info. A bit pricey ($30 for on demand, $40 for on demand plus the DVD version), but it has great ideas and visuals. It covers socializing/neutralizing with other dogs, people, types of collars, the car, etc.


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Persinette said:


> Leerburg has a great video called 'Raising a Working Puppy'. It's over an hour long and has great info. A bit pricey ($30 for on demand, $40 for on demand plus the DVD version), but it has great ideas and visuals. It covers socializing/neutralizing with other dogs, people, types of collars, the car, etc.


 I'll definitely have to check that out!


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> To an extent, your blurring temperament and training. A friendly dog is a friendly dog, teaching her how you want her to behave, thats not going to change her temperament. What I do all depends on the dog. My friendly, social dog enjoys contact from people, so I let him have contact with people. My nervy one has limits on what he can handle, so I keep him close, but just a little bit out of reach. I match everything to what their temperament is.


 That makes sense, thanks for the input.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Let them see the world DMS, and teach them to behave. I just saved you 40 bucks.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

What Steve said


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## DMS92 (May 11, 2015)

Steve Strom said:


> Let them see the world DMS, and teach them to behave. I just saved you 40 bucks.


 hahaha thanks.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

DMS92 said:


> And as far as strangers and non strangers? Do you limited that interaction or is it irrelevant? I socialized my current girl to every type of person that exists that I was able to think of so now she is very approachable and not necessarily indifferent, more so, that she LOVES attention from new people.
> 
> As mentioned, it seems like a good balance for socialization is more of just a lot of exposure as oppose to encouraging actual physical interaction?
> 
> I love that my girl is social and that's her personality, but is it wrong that I don't want my next dog to be as approachable, but instead aloof and more neutral??


If you're just doing IPO it doesn't matter if the dog is friendly or aloof or whatever. If it wants to bite sleeve it's going to bite sleeve it won't care who that sleeve is on. You just don't want your dog going off on it's own to party with strangers during a trial and that is all a matter of proper training not socialization.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I really don't know what a schutzhund dog is, but my advice is raise your dog like a normal family dog. Socialization won't change the temperament though it may help outward expression. Your dog can be good family pet and good on the field also, if it has good temperament. Unless you are a world competitor, Sch should be secondary to the dog's participation in family, imo.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just wanted to add my experience, which I didn't last night. With Jax, I socialized heavily. Took her in to the vet weekly, took her to places that allowed dogs, used to take her to the stable with me all the time. Let her meet people. She is dog aggressive but that happened within our home with a fostered doberman so had nothing to do with socialization. She is naturally aloof and does not, as a general rule, seek out people for attention. I've seen her turn her head in avoidance to some people. She just has no interest in them. She also has weak nerves and can be skittish around loud noises. No amount of socializing will fix that.

Seger was a winter baby in a severely cold winter that started early. He had very little socialization. Practically none with other dogs. Pretty much nothing until spring when we went for a walk around town and in the woods a few times. He's rock solid. He was unsure of a few things like bags of garbage and stumps in the woods until I showed him they were nothing to bark at. After all, puppies don't pop out of the womb fearless. But it was little things in the environment that he needed to see and experience.

A good, solid, dog is a good, solid, dog. Socialization, or lack of, will not change that.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Totally agree with Cliff....I refuse to sell pups as "competition" dogs where they will be kenneled and taken out only to work....I call it "deprivation training".... 

The whole concept of "socialization" is a bandaid to overcome poor genetics and a 
too often used excuse for a dog with genetic poor temperament "oh - he wasn't socialized as a puppy".....a properly bred pup is going to be genetically sound, and "normal" - curious, friendly and happy.... took a 12 week old puppy for vaccines - vet was going on about a 2 yo GSD that she had spayed that day that she advised the owners to PTS if it bit "ANOTHER PERSON"!!!! They blamed it on socialization, and she asked me what I did to socialize this puppy as she was so sound....LOL I told her - NOTHING - it is just genetics!!! 

Lee


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## Catu (Sep 6, 2007)

Persinette said:


> Leerburg has a great video called 'Raising a Working Puppy'. It's over an hour long and has great info. A bit pricey ($30 for on demand, $40 for on demand plus the DVD version), but it has great ideas and visuals. It covers socializing/neutralizing with other dogs, people, types of collars, the car, etc.


Leerburg DVDs are only self promotion to sell more Leerburg stuff.
See... I saved you even more than $40.


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## Baillif (Jun 26, 2013)

They contain excuses on why the video wasn't edited to not look like crap too. Don't forget that.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

DMS92 said:


> hahaha thanks.


For the record DMS, I like training videos. I think at a certain point, you can see how to apply a little different technique from them in your training. I'm partial to Ivan's stuff, but there's a lot that's good with the Flink's videos too.


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