# Bad Boy! (Warning: Reading Is Required)



## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

My dog is 8-9 months old. He listens inside the house when I say a command *once*, about 95% of the time. But he has to be looking at me in order for him to understand I am giving him a command. So when he is outdoors and there is *no one* in site he will listen about 75% of the time(when given the command only once, I would usually have to say his name a couple of times until he looks at me). Then when there is someone walking by or an airplane flying by, his eyes will lock onto that object until it has passed. I can not get his attention then. It is impossible...
How the heck do I make him focus on only me? I know everyone has been telling me "transition from the house to outside and add more distractions slowly." But how can I when he wont even pay attention to me or look at me when I call his name?
I have tried treats, tug on leash, saying "nope" and a whole lot of things. Nothing seems to work...
Today we were doing some training outdoors with nobody in sight. I had him somewhat focused and had him sit then down then stay then up then sit. He did all those commands correctly without having to repeat myself... Then I gave the final command... I said "come"... then he just runs past me and runs off... I said come a lot of times but he didn't come, just kept running from me. So I immediately ran to my house  while saying "BAD BOY!"
He eventually came to my front door like 3 minutes after. I put him in his crate and ignored him for 30 minutes.
He is now by my side, on a leash, so I can control where he goes and doesn't go for the rest of the day.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

I have been consistent. I have been patient. But I see no progress in my training techniques... I have been using marker training ever since he was 8 weeks old. Help me please!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

mynameisblc said:


> Then I gave the final command... I said "come"... then he just runs past me and runs off... I said come a lot of times but he didn't come, just kept running from me. So I immediately ran to my house  while saying "BAD BOY!"
> He eventually came to my front door like 3 minutes after. I put him in his crate and ignored him for 30 minutes.
> He is now by my side, on a leash, so I can control where he goes and doesn't go for the rest of the day.


Congratulations - you've just taught him why he should NOT come when he's called! oke:  

What I would do differently in the future:

Spend a lot of time outdoors in a distracting environment with him on leash, just marking and rewarding him for looking at you. Don't give him any commands, just reward him for offering attention spontaneously. Do this in a variety of places - in the yard, at a strip mall, on a busy street corner, etc. Everywhere you can think of. Build a foundation of attention without having to ask for it. Simply wait for it and then reward it, over and over and over again. The more you reward him for looking at you, the more he's going to look at you. Pretty basic.

NEVER use a command in an environment where you can't control him (off leash in the yard), and when he's unlikely to comply anyway. All you're going to do is degrade that command to where it becomes meaningless. Do lots of very short recalls around the house - big praise and a treat. Mark and reward him for moving towards you spontaneously at home, without asking him to do so. Do short recalls on leash walks too, running backwards a few steps, patting your leg, whatever you need to encourage him to come towards you. Big praise and a treat, and then continue your walk. 

Never, ever, EVER act angry or punish him in any way for coming to you, even if it takes awhile. "Come" is always happy, it's always good, it's always rewarding. Or why would he do it? Play recall games around the house: toss a treat across the floor and when he gets it run away, calling his name. When he gets to you, give him another treat and toss one across the floor again. Run.  Teach him that chasing YOU is way more fun than you chasing him. Call him back and forth between you and another person. When he gets to you have a party, then release him and have someone else call him. Make it FUN! 

Spend some time releasing him, then calling him back to you for a treat or some tugging play, and then releasing him again. Use a long line if necessary to keep him from wandering off and not coming back. Coming to you should never mean that the fun is over, or you'll be right back where you are now. It should mean something good for him, and then he gets to go have more fun.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Well, this was my first time running to my house like that haha. I just wanted him to chase me 
He is on a raw diet, I don't know what type of treats I should give him 
But I understand what you are trying to tell me... I just don't have treats with me all the time. I guess I should get like a fanny pack and walk with it everywhere I go with my dog 
I'll be one cool teenager.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Also, do dogs hold a grudge? For example, if I was mean today, would my dog forget about it the next day? Maybe I can act like a whole different person the next day.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

For treats, I love these: The Real Meat Company

And these: Home » ZiwiPeak

They're not raw, but they're mostly air dried meat, without a lot of other "stuff", and my dogs (and cats!) are nuts for them. 

While you're actively training, and especially while you're working on correcting this issue, I would make sure I was always ready to reward the behavior I want. That means I have my treat bag on me at all times, and also my clicker. If you use a verbal marker instead of a clicker, that's fine. 

I don't think he's going to hold a grudge, dogs don't really think that way. They do what works, and they learn consequences (or lack thereof) of their actions. Right now, there are no consequences for ignoring you, and nothing particularly wonderful happens if he complies. Change it up - manage the situation so his opportunities to blow you off are greatly reduced, and make it very rewarding to comply. Because there's already a pattern established that your recall command can be ignored, it could take some time to overcome this.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

They had us work an exercise in class that at the time I thought was kinda silly, but I was sure wrong.

We were to reward/treat the dog for doing nothing other than looking at us. Literally as soon as the dogs eyes came to ours, treat. I thought (at the time), geesh, Bailey is getting a real bonus for nothing here, but I was so wrong.

They ramped things up, so they'd be walking around the dogs, even squeaking toys and so on, and the only goal was the dog keeping our eye contact. Treated each time they did. They might falter for a moment, look out the side of their eyes, etc, but when their eyes came back to ours and avoided the distraction, treat.

Really good exercise and I sure see the value in it now.

Cassidy's Mom gave a ton of great info.

I never give a "come" command that I'm not 100% sure is going to be successful. As in, his eyes are on me, I have something he wants and we both know it, etc. He could even already be started coming towards me and I know he's going to come, so I say "C'mere Bailey." (My come command is actually c'mere.) More than anything, I am afraid of him learning he can fail that command.

Nah, dogs don't hold grudges, but I think they make associations. Gee, I did this thing yesterday and it worked for me, so if I do it again today, it'll surely work again. 

Cool teenager, haha. That's actually really cool. You're a young kid wanting to do things right, so kudos. As you said, your methods aren't working, so good for you to seek out better methods. You'll find them and you've taken a great first step by asking for info/advice. We all need it!

Can you enroll in a basic obedience class?


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

chelle said:


> They had us work an exercise in class that at the time I thought was kinda silly, but I was sure wrong.
> 
> We were to reward/treat the dog for doing nothing other than looking at us. Literally as soon as the dogs eyes came to ours, treat. I thought (at the time), geesh, Bailey is getting a real bonus for nothing here, but I was so wrong.
> 
> ...


This is actually something I work on at home from the time I bring home a new puppy! It's the simplest, most basic concept of dog training that what you reward you're going to get more of. The stronger your foundation the better all the training that follows will be, so it's always worthwhile to do foundation training, even if it seems silly or pointless at the time. 



> I never give a "come" command that I'm not 100% sure is going to be successful. As in, his eyes are on me, I have something he wants and we both know it, etc. He could even already be started coming towards me and I know he's going to come, so I say "C'mere Bailey." (My come command is actually c'mere.) More than anything, I am afraid of him learning he can fail that command.


:thumbup:


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Watch me and leave it are two commands that can work with a dog that is distracted. I think the key is to have them watch you or leave it before the distraction happens. Another thing that I did to better my dog's recall is while in the house no matter where she was out I would call her name and say come..we would do this 15-20 times a day from everywhere in the house and she got a treat. Now when I take her outside I tell her to come and she stops what she is doing and comes to me and sits down(sometimes she gets a treat and sometimes she doesn't..the point is that she don't know when she will get one). I carry treats with me everywhere, they are in my jacket, by the door, in my car, etc.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

I don't have the extra money and time for obedience classes. Besides If I were going to have someone help me train my dog, I'd rather join a club not a obedience class taught at some pet store.


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> I don't have the extra money and time for obedience classes. Besides If I were going to have someone help me train my dog, I'd rather join a club not a obedience class taught at some pet store.



Lots of clubs offer classes once a week that are drop in classes. Obedience classes are a very important part of training and socialization. They not only help the dog, but they benefit the owner of the dog too. You might want to check out a local club to see what they offer and see if it fits into your schedule and budget...they can be reasonably priced The German Shepherd Club by me offers the drop ins for $7.00 once a week, but the dogs are pretty advanced!!


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## Knave (Apr 29, 2012)

mynameisblc said:


> I don't have the extra money and time for obedience classes. Besides If I were going to have someone help me train my dog, I'd rather join a club not a obedience class taught at some pet store.


Petsmart isn't your only option when it comes to obedience classes. There are some skilled trainers around that run some great classes. Even better, some might be associated with a club and can help you get into it.


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## NewbieShepherdGirl (Jan 7, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> My dog is 8-9 months old. He listens inside the house when I say a command *once*, about 95% of the time. But he has to be looking at me in order for him to understand I am giving him a command. So when he is outdoors and there is *no one* in site he will listen about 75% of the time(when given the command only once, I would usually have to say his name a couple of times until he looks at me). Then when there is someone walking by or an airplane flying by, his eyes will lock onto that object until it has passed. I can not get his attention then. It is impossible...
> How the heck do I make him focus on only me? I know everyone has been telling me "transition from the house to outside and add more distractions slowly." But how can I when he wont even pay attention to me or look at me when I call his name?
> I have tried treats, tug on leash, saying "nope" and a whole lot of things. Nothing seems to work...
> Today we were doing some training outdoors with nobody in sight. I had him somewhat focused and had him sit then down then stay then up then sit. He did all those commands correctly without having to repeat myself... Then I gave the final command... I said "come"... then he just runs past me and runs off... I said come a lot of times but he didn't come, just kept running from me. So I immediately ran to my house  while saying "BAD BOY!"
> ...


What I did with my girl, as far as distractions go, is I taught two different commands. One was leave it and one was look at me. We worked on these inside the house before we ever worked on them outside. Inside, leave it was taught by using high value items (such as cheese, treats, pieces of meat, etc.) and placing them near her, but not allowing her to have them. As soon as she looked away from the item (not necessarily at me at this point, just not at her item of desire) it was "GOOD GIRL!!! GOOD "LEAVE IT"!" This went on for a while until I felt confident she understood what I was wanting, then I incorporated the word first. Then when she got that we used it outside. I would use it on our walks when we would see another person, something she wanted to eat on the ground, etc. There was always a treat involved and lots of praise. 

The look at me command involved me putting a treat up between my eyes and saying, "look at me" and treating her for doing it. After a while I would say look at me, with no treat by my face, and then give her the treat for doing it. This is also something I worked inside before moving it outside. 

With come, I eliminated the option to disobey by putting her on a twenty foot lead when we worked it. At first I was only a few steps away, and when I would say come I would draw her in to me and treat her and praise her. I gradually increased the distance but still drew her in to me. Eventually I stopped drawing her in to me, but still had the leash on her, so I could issue a correction if needed. Treats are huge with Sasha and she gets a treat pretty much every time she comes. I also worked this inside first. 



mynameisblc said:


> I just don't have treats with me all the time. I guess I should get like a fanny pack and walk with it everywhere I go with my dog
> I'll be one cool teenager.


Treats all the time is a must. Think about it, would you work for free? 

LOL I got Sasha when I was 20, and am only 21 now, so I feel your pain about wearing the fanny pack. You can get treat belt things that look a little better, but either way you kind of look goofy. I'd rather look goofy and have a good dog, though, than look good and have a poorly behaved dog.


BTW the others gave really good advice; I am simply saying how I did it to provide you with options.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

I'll look into some trainers or clubs but in the meantime, I will start rewarding my dog every time for eye contact


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> I don't have the extra money and* time* for obedience classes. Besides If I were going to have someone help me train my dog, I'd rather join a club not a obedience class taught at some pet store.


 
No time to train = a not trained dog!


BTW - most OB clubs offer classe!

BTW2, the good classes will train YOU to train your dog.

BUT, you will still have to put a LOT of time in to train your dog.

Esp. to train them to obey under distractions!

Teach them a command in a calm distraction free environment, and then start to practice it under increasing levels of distrsaction. it is hard and takes a LOT of time to do so.

BTW3 - you don't *have* to use treats to train your dog. You can, and for some dogs they will work very well, but you can also use other things as a reward - a toy, a bit of a tug, praise, a release to explore something, etc.

First thing to work on is "Watch me", "Look", Focus" - a consistent command to have your dog look up at you until you release him/her.

Without attention, you are wasting your time to try to teach them anything, with it you can teach your dog anything!


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

NewbieShepherdGirl said:


> What I did with my girl, as far as distractions go, is I taught two different commands. One was leave it and one was look at me. We worked on these inside the house before we ever worked on them outside. Inside, leave it was taught by using high value items (such as cheese, treats, pieces of meat, etc.) and placing them near her, but not allowing her to have them. As soon as she looked away from the item (not necessarily at me at this point, just not at her item of desire) it was "GOOD GIRL!!! GOOD "LEAVE IT"!" This went on for a while until I felt confident she understood what I was wanting, then I incorporated the word first. Then when she got that we used it outside. I would use it on our walks when we would see another person, something she wanted to eat on the ground, etc. There was always a treat involved and lots of praise.
> 
> The look at me command involved me putting a treat up between my eyes and saying, "look at me" and treating her for doing it. After a while I would say look at me, with no treat by my face, and then give her the treat for doing it. This is also something I worked inside before moving it outside.
> 
> ...


When I call my dog's name, indoors, he will look at me most of the time but he never really got a treat or praise for it... I guess he will now!


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm just learning the focus training as well. It is tough and is definitely not going to happen overnight. Just because it's still a fresh topic for me, the 2 commands that helped me out a LOT are:
- *Calling their name* - When you get a reaction (usually, they'll face you), then you give them a treat and celebrate. I call Abby's name during walks now to help transition it outdoors. When we go on hikes, I also use it randomly. 
- *The "Look" command* - Basically the focus command. They are to look at you until you give the release. I practice this command during meal times. Abby is to look at me, then I reward her with her food/water. Again, to transition this to outdoors, make use of it during walks. Every curb we meet, she must sit and I'll throw in other commands such as look, down, etc... Ofcourse, treats and celebrations.

I don't know if dogs hold grudges but I wouldn't think so in my opinion. However, always try to remain optimistic. "_Oh, Abby didn't do so well on the *come* command but she was able to do it 3 times today. Atleast, we're getting somewhere_." All dogs learn differently, so give it your best to be patient but celebrate everytime they do it correctly.


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## GSDkid (Apr 19, 2011)

codmaster said:


> BTW3 - you don't *have* to use treats to train your dog. You can, and for some dogs they will work very well, but you can also use other things as a reward - *a toy, a bit of a tug, praise, a release to explore something, etc.*


What codmaster said. Some dogs are not treat motivated. You'll have to find that "something" that your dog responds to the most. My trainer had to use a frisbee for her dog. 

For me, my dog adds value to food that I am enjoying. It could just be her kibble that she regards as not motivational but once I take a bite out if it (not that I would) she'll automatically think it's high value. I ended up eating hot dogs while training her but we've transitioned from that.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

codmaster said:


> No time to train = a not trained dog!
> 
> 
> BTW - most OB clubs offer classe!
> ...



I train my dog everyday and have a lot of free time to do so, but no car to drive to a trainer. He knows almost every trick in the book from sit to closing the door to left and right(heel), but that is when he is NOT distracted.
My goal is to teach eye contact and I will have the most awesome dog in my neighborhood!
I can put up a video sometime and show you!


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Actually, I found a video that's from like a month or so ago... You can see he is distracted and looks away a lot.
(This is a month ago! He has improved, I swear! Haha)






This was without marking the behavior and with no rewards in between commands. Had to make it look cool for my friends, I hope you understand  And please disregard the background music. Haha...


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

watched your vid, very nice dog, my suggestion and observation, your to 'regimental'..

Not once did you praise or reward him for doing anything...After each command (and I'm taking into consideration this is a young dog), I would be saying GOOD BOY, or GOOD JOB!,,and make it HAPPY!!!!! 

While some dogs do need a stern command, I start with the opposite, make it FUN, and make it UPBEAT..He's doing the commands because you are rather 'yelling' at him to do so..

Not a criticism at all, I would just try things the above way,,if it's not 'fun', they may 'do it', but they aren't motivated to do it..You want motivation and a happy dog..

Just my 2 cents


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## bellamia (Feb 7, 2010)

JakodaCD OA said:


> watched your vid, very nice dog, my suggestion and observation, your to 'regimental'..
> 
> Not once did you praise or reward him for doing anything...After each command (and I'm taking into consideration this is a young dog), I would be saying GOOD BOY, or GOOD JOB!,,and make it HAPPY!!!!!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

The looking away is not necessarily lack of focus, but calming signals telling you to "take it easy, man."
http://diamondsintheruff.com/calmingsignals.html

I would say that before even looking at: http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/three-d’s-dog-training-and-why-you-need-know-about-them


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Someone told me there is a difference between telling and asking. I was telling him to do something


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> I would be saying GOOD BOY, or GOOD JOB!,,and make it HAPPY!!!!!


Yeah I only watched a few moments, and all your commands are given in a very "scolding" manner


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> Someone told me *there is a difference between telling and asking.* I was telling him to do something


Absolutely! The difference is called COMPULSION! Something every dog must learn!

Otherwise they are NOT trained!


Excuse the rant - just spent another obedience class with my local club (I am a member) and the PO advocates there. They always ASK their dog to do something and if he chooses not to obey, they either ask again or just make an excuse for his refusal. I>E> Too hot out, too sunny, too cold, too ....


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

I see calming signals, not distraction. 

You need to be giving feedback to your dog. You are just going from one trick to the next without telling him that he did it right. 

My trainer once told me that the best dog trainers are the best actors. When your dog obeys, you should be acting like they just brought you the winning lottery ticket.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

I don't think you guys read the part where I said "This was without marking the behavior and with no rewards in between commands. Had to make it look cool for my friends, I hope you understand."
I do say "good" and "yes" after every command, just not that one time.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

> They always ASK their dog to do something and if he chooses not to obey, they either ask again or just make an excuse for his refusal. I>E> Too hot out, too sunny, too cold, too ....


Curious how you'd deal with that situation were it your dog refusing to obey your command?



> I see calming signals, not distraction.


BTW there's nothing wrong with "telling" your dog to do something but we are not drill sergeants. 
It is better to ask (and require obedience) than to bark out random orders your dog must obey. 
Whether or not you reward "usually", you are ordering your dog to do things and the dog is feeling overwhelmed which is why people are responding as they are. I'd like to see a vid of your usual training methods.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

When he doesn't obey, I ask again. If I asked several times and he still doesn't do what I ask, I'll give a simpler command like sit then reward him and finish the training session for the moment.
I'll upload a video soon


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

Saw the vid. Nice job of training for a pup that age. He seems to obey willingly so I don't see the need for constant "Good boy", etc. I'm sure he got that way because you used it in training and you do it enough to reinforce it. He's a dog, not a child, so you don't have to worry as much about his self-image or fragile psyche. Your commands were clear and you didn't over-use his name. When you used BACK after BARK he seemed a little confused and did both because they sound alike.
Nice job, JMHO.


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## jang (May 1, 2011)

I think your dog is responding nicely--My Sib won't do ANYTHING without a treat after EVERY command..No wonder she is too heavy!!! Nice job...jan


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

msvette2u said:


> Curious how you'd deal with that situation were it your dog refusing to obey your command? *Make him do it!*
> 
> *Read my post and you might understand! He MUST obey when I tell him to do something - I.E. SIT, DOWN, STAY, etc. *
> 
> ...


 
How does a dog (an animal!) "feel overwhelmed"? And how can one "see" and realize that a dog is "feeling overwhelmed". They don't cry as far as I can see with my dog. 

Actually, I would have to charge for folks to see a video of *my* training methods. Heh! Heh!

*So to summarize - do you demand that your dog obey when you give it a command (like Sit, Stand, Down, Stay, etc.) or do you not?*

A very simple Yes/No question - but one that says a great deal about the trainer.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Remember that each dog is different, there is no 100% correct way to motivate your dog. The trick is YOU need to find what is right for your dog. If you aren't getting the reaction from your dog that you are trying to get(a solid 'come') then there is something that you need to change in what YOU are doing. 

It looks as though you've done a good job so far. If you feel you are losing your dog's motivation, change something up.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> When he doesn't obey, *I ask again*. If I *asked several times* and he still doesn't do what I ask, I'll give a simpler command like sit then reward him and finish the training session for the moment.
> I'll upload a video soon


Cod missed this statement.

There is no asking *again*, as far as I'm concerned. 

Honestly, I don't think it is necessary to yell at your dog in such a harsh manner. Sure, most people use a strong type of voice in lower tones, but please no offense intended, you just sound mean! I wouldn't want to do anything for you!  I am not meaning to be nasty with that statement, promise!

A person can get what they want from a dog many ways. I'm a rookie, so you can take this with a grain of salt, but I find it far more enjoyable when my dog is *wanting *to engage with me and do what I want him to do -- treat or not. He's just interested. Yes, I have trained with treats and still do, though less and less. He knows there will likely be a treat at some point, but he doesn't know when and he may have to perform multiple things first. All the while, his tail is wagging and he is (seemingly) sincerely happy to interact with me. 

I'll get smacked around for saying this, but your dog doesn't seem any too thrilled or like he's having a lot of fun. He's complying, sure, yes. You've obviously worked! 

Someone close to me has ruled their two dogs by fear. It is effective as I've seen it work with both his dogs. It got the job done, but just personally speaking for me, I want my dog to enjoy what we're doing. Granted, there will be times he doesn't want to, and I don't mind stepping it up to ensure compliance, but otherwise? I want his tail to wag at least some while we work. I'll try to find a vid that shows what I mean.

Besides all that, your dog is only seven months old at that time, right? Pretty young for full compulsion, really, IMVHO. Kinda like treating a cub scout like a soldier. Let him be a cub scout a little longer.  Give him some positive feedback. He can be a tough soldier a little later.

Just my .02, worth a hay penny.!


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Your dog should obey your COMMAND and not think twice. When you're teaching a puppy basic obedience and teaching them what you expect them to do, it's fine to make it "fun" for them. But later on when you get out into the "real" world and your dog runs into the street with incoming cars, are you going to make it "fun" for them to come back? Or are you going to COMMAND them to come back no matter what.
I use a firm voice to let my dog know to do what I say, period. I also use a softer tone for asking, like when I'm asking him to come lay next to me.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

Again, no offense, but your dog appears to be thinking twice. You even say you repeat commands, so I'm not sure why the attitude here, unless I've offended you.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

mynameisblc said:


> Your dog should obey your command and not think twice. When you're training a puppy obedience and teaching them what you expect them to do, it's fine to make it "fun" for them. But later on when you get out into the "real" world and your dog runs into the street with incoming cars, are you going to make it "fun" for them to come back? Or are you going to demand them to come back no matter what.


I don't see those as either/or goals - "want to" and "have to" are not necessarily mutually exclusive. In order for your dog to obey your commands no matter what, without thinking twice, it can be extremely useful to train your dog in a way that is initially very fun and rewarding. I like a thinking dog that has the opportunity to make good choices instead of always simply being told what to do. But that kind of training doesn't automatically mean that the dog will only comply if they feel like it. 

Your dog may not be a little puppy anymore, but he is still young, he is still obviously being trained vs already trained, and you are having some difficulty with his level of motivation in distracting circumstances, which is why you're asking for help. Maybe it's time to rethink your methods and try something new? 

For me, the initial phase of training new behaviors is teaching the dog what the command means, AND why they should care. I can either show them (lure into a sit, mark/reward) or I can "capture" the behavior, marking and rewarding as the dog offers it up spontaneously. And then I require that they sit when I put their food bowls on the floor and look at me until I release them to eat. I require that they sit while I put the leash on or it goes back on the hook. I require that they sit at my side while I open the front door for a walk, or the door gets shut it their face. I require that they sit until released before I throw the ball at the park. These things all reinforce to the dog that it is in their best interest to do what I want because that's the path to getting what THEY want. In this phase, using real life rewards, the dog is given the choice to obey. If they don't comply, they don't eat/go for a walk/get to play ball, etc. 

There will still be times when I require that they do what I say, so I also introduce the "have to" to my training as well. But I would much rather start with willing, happy, enthusiastic partners in training, because when it comes down to it, when you really need them to do what you want immediately, without question, I think it's much more likely that they will if they have a long history, a strong foundation, of good things happening when they do, than they will if they've been trained with mostly compulsion and fear the "or else" if they don't.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

You said I was yelling. I was just being firm.
I do repeat myself sometimes. The ONLY reason for that is because he gets distracted or isn't focused on me. But when he IS looking at me, he will do the command 99% of the time


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

In my experience, training dogs (especially puppies) is not about "looking cool." Yeah sure... your dog obeys you when you're the only one around. But he sure doesn't look like he's happy to be working for you so IMO it's no wonder he pays attention to everything but you when you're out of the house. I'm not saying this as an insult (most of us have been there too!), just an observation that will hopefully help you improve his focus on you outside  

If you want your dog to enjoy training and enjoy obeying you (which doesn't make it optional, just leads to a better relationship between you and your dog), you are probably going to look like a crazy fool for a while. Even now, working with our 4 year old GSD Sasha on her fear reactiveness I look and sound like a bit of a nut job when I get super pumped and start playing with her when she ignores the dogs barking at her on the other side of the fence or stays focused on me when another dog walks by. I wear a treat pouch that reeks of salmon treats, carry a raggedy toy in my back pocket, and talk in a very happy singsongy voice when praising her. Definitely look like a crazy dog lady but it is so worth it to see the progress we are making already!


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> You said I was yelling. I was just being firm.
> I do repeat myself sometimes. The ONLY reason for that is because he gets distracted or isn't focused on me. But when he IS looking at me, he will do the command 99% of the time


But when you start out yelling instead of motivating him to focus on you, all he learns is that you're a little unstable but also that he can ignore you because there aren't negative or positive consequences either way. I have a feeling you would see a huge difference pretty quickly if instead of getting mad at him for getting distracted in the first place, you get excited, grab some high value treats and get his attention back on you that way. He'll learn quick that pay attention to you is really cool and gets awesome rewards AND over time this will translate to other distractions as well.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

sashadog said:


> If you want your dog to enjoy training and enjoy obeying you (which doesn't make it optional, just leads to a better relationship between you and your dog), you are probably going to look like a crazy fool for a while. Even now, working with our 4 year old GSD Sasha on her fear reactiveness I look and sound like a bit of a nut job when I get super pumped and start playing with her when she ignores the dogs barking at her on the other side of the fence or stays focused on me when another dog walks by. I wear a treat pouch that reeks of salmon treats, carry a raggedy toy in my back pocket, and talk in a very happy singsongy voice when praising her. Definitely look like a crazy dog lady but it is so worth it to see the progress we are making already!


Yep, pretty much the opposite of "cool". :rofl: But if I'm not concerned with what other people think and instead I focus on me and my dog having fun together, I am much more successful in keeping their focus on me, rather than on the environment. And when I have their attention, I can train them, something I can't do when I don't have their attention.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

I use different tones.
Softer tone in training and firmer when telling him to do something like sit when there is a person walking by.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> Yep, pretty much the opposite of "cool". :rofl: But if I'm not concerned with what other people think and instead I focus on me and my dog having fun together, I am much more successful in keeping their focus on me, rather than on the environment.And when I have their attention, I can train them, something I can't do when I don't have their attention.


EXACTLY! Hard lesson sometimes but an important one!! My bf threatened to take a video of me just so I can see how silly I look:blush: !! But its all worth it when you see the dog loving the work we're doing!!  But still... pride and "looking cool" is one thing you have to let go of when you're training dogs  That should be the next fun thread! "Everyone post how silly you look training your puppy to come!" :laugh:


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Oh well... I got my 8 month old where he is at right now by doing something right... Now just teaching him to focus on me outdoors is basically all I need him to do.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> Oh well... I got my 8 month old where he is at right now by doing something right... Now just teaching him to focus on me outdoors is basically all I need him to do.


And that's what we're trying to help you with. To get his focus, you need to more exciting and fun than whatever he's distracted by!!


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Is this what you guys want to see more of? At 3:18 he is a little excited... If you know what I mean


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> Is this what you guys want to see more of? At 3:18 he is a little excited... If you know what I mean
> 
> 8 Months Old German Shepherd Obedience Training - YouTube


Yes, thank you. 

Can I critique? (Keep in mind, I've posted plenty of vids to ask for critiques. There are things others see that you just don't see yourself sometimes. I currently have some vids online in a somewhat current thread *right now*, so do feel free to check mine out, too!)

You have a male's voice.  It is deep. I like your "yes," but your "good" is almost as deep as the command. I don't know what men do in this regard. We women are naturals, as our voices go higher and we are more trained in baby talk.  Can you bring your voice up any? Note that you were warned you were going to look foolish, :rofl: but the whole point is getting your boy as interested and "into" what you're doing as possible.

Try to reward as soon as the dog does the right thing. Ie, timing. This is a weakness of mine. I *feel* as though I'm delivering the praise right on time, but when I watch it back, I see I'm often late. 

Your boy is super handsome and obviously a very good, trainable dog AND it is apparent you've worked hard. Kudos. 

The only other thing I would try is to ramp up the fun factor. Sit, down, sit, stay, back up... just is bound to get kinda boring for the dog. Throw a few other little things in to keep the dog guessing!

I couldn't find a vid with the short search I tried, so I'm putting in one of my own. Just a goofy session, nothing too terrific and unfortunately it doesn't show how much his tail wags as we do stuff, but maybe it'll give you an idea. My boy was your dog's age when I did this vid, and you'll notice, I was treating a lot. It sure got his interest where I wanted it.! We still do these things, with the newer things he's learned mixed in. He does seem to really enjoy it when he doesn't know what the next command will be.

Oh, btw, no one is saying you're not doing anything right! Dog training has a million opinions. Seriously, take a lot of information in. Try different things, be open. 

Oh and second btw, before when I recommended classes, I did not recommend Petsmart or whatever. I wouldn't go there either. I go to an obedience club with my boy and we're going into advanced into a few weeks. I have learned SO MUCH from them. They don't train my dog; I do, but they teach me how to do it. They see things I don't. They give me tips and pointers. It is invaluable. It is not some namby pamby class. If you're messin' up, there's a trainer right there saying, hey, I noticed this... and instead, why don't you try this.. and they're right every time. Every suggestion they've given on a better way to do it has gotten a better result than I was getting. The key is finding a good class. I went thru a couple before this.

Good luck!!!!!!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> When he doesn't obey, I ask again. If I asked several times and he still doesn't do what I ask, I'll give a simpler command like sit then reward him and finish the training session for the moment.
> I'll upload a video soon



I don't think that any command should be repeated...you give the command and wait the dog out until the dog does the command you asked


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> Oh well... I got my 8 month old where he is at right now by doing something right... Now just teaching him to focus on me outdoors is basically all I need him to do.


 
Guess that you are all set then. And all by yourself - congrats to you.

Oh yea, except that he blows you off when he is outside, right?

But other than that, almost perfect, I think you said 99% obedience. 

That is truly a remarkable rate. Certainly sounds like you surely don't need any help from anybody on this forum, does it?


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> Is this what you guys want to see more of? At 3:18 he is a little excited... If you know what I mean
> 
> 8 Months Old German Shepherd Obedience Training - YouTube


For example at 1:15 when he starts looking at the counter, you can say watch me and when he looks at you give him a treat and that is how you get him more focused....otherwise I think that he's a pretty smart pup


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> You said I was yelling. I was just being firm.
> I do repeat myself sometimes. The ONLY reason for that is because he gets distracted or isn't focused on me. But *when he IS looking at me, he will do the command 99% of the time[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> So all you need to do is to keep him looking at you!


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

llombardo said:


> I don't think that any command should be repeated...you give the command and wait the dog out until the dog does the command you asked


I wait like 5 seconds before repeating... If he still doesn't get it the second time, I'll end it with a simple command and keep working on the command he didn't get. That's how I do it though...


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

llombardo said:


> For example at 1:15 when he starts looking at the counter, you can say watch me and when he looks at you give him a treat and that is how you get him more focused....otherwise I think that he's a pretty smart pup


HAHA... I used to keep his treats up there


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

ok since I critiqued your first vid, I'll spew my impressions on the latest one..

This dog is no dummy He is much more animated in this one and I see him happily complying with what your asking..He's liking what he's doing..Good voice change, and ok, I know I said use 'good boy', whatever,,I'd do it every couple of commands, you kinda overdid it, but I am NOT criticizing.

If you watch both videos succinctly I think you can see the difference in his attitude. 

So I would say, you've got things pretty well down for inside but your problem is focusing outside with distractions. 

With that, I'd put him on a long line/leash, I wouldn't go thru all his list of commands, start out with say 'sit', do outside what your doing inside, soon as the butt hits the ground, reward/treat..It's like starting over but now going outside. 

I don't need my dog to be staring at me 24/7..listening to me and doing what I ask, (I prefer to say ask vs tell is what I'm aiming for.

I have been blessed with some absolutely wonderful gsd's in my life, 'come' was never a problem with any of them , their focus on me was not a necessity, they 'knew' (and I'm sure he does to) where I was at all times, and when I said COME, they came.

With that, I don't repeat commands, long line/leash, if they don't 'come' when I say it, reel them in not harshly, and it's not a punishment, it's a training issue in my mind anyway.

When dogs loose focus/could care less what their owners are asking(telling) them, it tells me there is something else more interesting than ME...I want ME to be that most important center of their universe thing. Luckily I can say, the gsd's I've had/have, are like that. I can't say its my 'training', I can say it's a tight bond with training as well.

Alright, I'm done spewing But wanted to say, remember he's only 8 months old, those males can be real doofers until they mature..I'd say you've done a good job with him inside anyway , he's smart, responsive, and eager to learn..Just got wait out that dingy teenage thing probably going on as well.and start working with small distractions and build up


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Why don't you use tug or ball play to engage your pup? Food gets boring and it will flatten out a dog. I like to mix up ball/food/tug, frisbee whatever to keep the training fun and my dog in drive. 
Training should be fun for both and engagement is key.
An 8 month old is really too young to be proofed out in public to be consistent. And just wait til the 10-14 month age hits....you may or may not see a change once again(and it isn't always for the better!) 
My dog is 3 and we are still working daily on focus/positions and other exercises. A work in progress and I don't see him ever being 'finished' in his training.
Look at some of these free clips on enthusiasm training using food: http://www.bridgetcarlsen.com/videos.html


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

He is still confused with BACK because it sounds like BARK, so he does both.
Also, GOOD doesn't mean much to him but YES always seems to mean a treat.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

For some reason I thought you were a girl, sorry about that! :laugh:

Here's Halo on a walk doing a wait and recall - you can see (or hear!) that I'm VERY enthusiastic with praise, and generous with the food rewards:






Lots of distractions at this park, although there wasn't anyone right there on the footbridge at the time. She's happy and engaged, even in a very distracting place.


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

I'm not sure if this will link or not.
heeling practice - YouTube

engaged. focused, a bit over-excited at times, but he wants to do what ever I am doing.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

I do switch from a treat to rope tugging.

I know someone who does a "back" command with their dog and they bark at the same time too. My dog will not always bark though, sometimes he will just back up without barking. I don't know what it is.

And Cassidy's Mom... HAHAHA that's funny but I guess that works. I'll give that a try next time!


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> I do switch from a treat to rope tugging.
> 
> I know someone who does a "back" command with their dog and they bark at the same time too. My dog will not always bark though, *sometimes he will just back up without barking. I don't know what it is.*
> 
> ...


I think PaddyD is right, the back and bark sound too much alike. Maybe try "back up" instead.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

IMHO, all these food rewards and enthusiasm are excessive once the dog has learned a 'trick' and should be phased out and only used for new tricks. Once they know something and it is part of them they don't need to be rewarded. I certainly don't give my 40 year old son treats for using the bathroom properly.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

chelle said:


> I think PaddyD is right, the back and bark sound too much alike. Maybe try "back up" instead.


Or BACK for back up and WOOF for bark.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Paddy, the dog at 8 months is still a puppy(not yet 40 in dog years). 

I guess I'd rather have fun with my dog than make him do factory work when we train. 

Hand signals for "back"(or all positions) can work, you don't need a verbal command. More often than not, a leash is communication, so leash jiggling or movement will also work for back, and focused heeling.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> *Paddy, the dog at 8 months is still a puppy(not yet 40 in dog years)*.
> 
> I guess I'd rather have fun with my dog than make him do factory work when we train.
> 
> Hand signals for "back"(or all positions) can work, you don't need a verbal command. More often than not, a leash is communication, so leash jiggling or movement will also work for back, and focused heeling.


Look up the word: facetious
Yes it should be fun learning new things but treating after it is fully absorbed is not necessary to anyone except the dog owner.


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

Should there be a different command for making eye contact? Or should I use his name for focusing on me?


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

PaddyD said:


> Look up the word: facetious
> Yes it should be fun learning new things but treating after it is fully absorbed is not necessary to anyone except the dog owner.


I don't know, my dog may think differently. Rewards are valuable, whether it is food, praise, toy, or a


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> Should there be a different command for making eye contact? Or should I use his name for focusing on me?


Watch me, look at me, look, watch... 

Here's how we were taught:

Take a treat and raise to your eyes. Say your word. Treat.

Repeat a time or two or five. 

Say the command, but take the treat away from your eyes. Let the dog follow it, but when the eyes come back, praise and treat. Build up and wave it around. Praise when their eyes don't waver. Treat.

Repeat a time or two or five.

Find someone to help you and introduce distractions such as a squeaky. 

Repeat, you get the idea. 

Evnetually the trainers were dropping treats all around the dogs. Then they'd walk other dogs close in vicinity. They made it hard, but it worked.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> I don't know, my dog may think differently. Rewards are valuable, whether it is food, praise, toy, or a


Sorry, I come from a stern Catholic upbringing followed by the Marine Corps. Probably colors my opinions, ya think?


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## mynameisblc (May 8, 2012)

chelle said:


> Watch me, look at me, look, watch...
> 
> Here's how we were taught:
> 
> ...


Then what is the point of the name? Hahaha...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

PaddyD said:


> Sorry, I come from a stern Catholic upbringing followed by the Marine Corps. Probably colors my opinions, ya think?


What color would that be? :help: LOL!!


> Should there be a different command for making eye contact? Or should I use his name for focusing on me?


I use fuss for my command to focus on me, it also is the command for heel position and heeling. When I say fuss, my dog should be sitting in heel position looking at me until I repeat it when we start heeling. I also use it when changing pace. 
You could use any word you want for focus, just be consistent and mark the behavior.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

chelle said:


> I think PaddyD is right, the back and bark sound too much alike. Maybe try "back up" instead.


Or speak for bark?


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

onyx'girl said:


> What color would that be? :help: LOL!!


I think the consensus is already in on that.
:crazy:


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

Mynameisblc.

For your age and doing that by yourself congratulations.

You and some of the other younger people on here are light years ahead of what I was doing with regard to training when I was that age. 
Maybe light years ahead of me now.

I can't squeal as well as Cassidy's Mom but I try to be exciting.

Cassidy's Mom and others were very helpful I hope you get something from their posts.

Again though, you are doing an excellent job. Have fun and keep up the good work.


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## chelle (Feb 1, 2009)

mynameisblc said:


> Then what is the point of the name? Hahaha...


Heck I dunno.  

I don't use my dog's real full name unless it is in combination with his "c'mere" command or something really good. (No other command contains his name.)

Otherwise if I'm just goofing around with him, telling him he's a purdy boy or whatever, I use his little "pet" names. (dumb, goofy sounding names.) I've tried to "reserve" his full name for when I really want full attention. I think I've had at least some small success with this... Bails, Mr Bails, Naughty Bails, he knows is mom just talkin' to him. Bailey -- he pays lots of attention to. He knows that means something. This goes back to my really wanting him to develop a solid recall. I can't say it is right, but just how I've tried to do it.

So because I want to reserve the full name for that, I like to use a different word for each command.


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## sashadog (Sep 2, 2011)

mynameisblc said:


> Then what is the point of the name? Hahaha...


I use their name for the "attention" command. It doesn't really matter what word you use as long as your consistent when using it  However, when I do the focus/eye contact work, I don't use any command because when we're training I want the dogs to watch me without using "watch" all the time. I start by holding treats in my hands with the dog in front of me, I'll wait for them to make eye contact and then click and treat. I want eye contact to be something that they do on their own rather than need a command for it. They pick up on it very quickly and it really helps them focus on me instead of the treat, ball, tug toy or whatever else their reward is  Maybe I'm wrong but it's worked for me!

Also, I agree with onyx that using a toy is sometimes better. Sasha seems to keep her enthusiasm up more with toys so we use toys for obedience and treats for working on her fear issues.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

Jack's Dad said:


> I can't squeal as well as Cassidy's Mom but I try to be exciting.


:rofl: Sometimes when I watch my training videos I annoy myself.... :wild: But Halo is having fun, and that's the important thing!


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