# Seniority Vs. Biggest Teeth... or something.



## Rockin M Ranch (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok, I'm in a pickle here. I know I'm new here, but I am NOT new to GSD's.(I have been owned by 4 now, worked in a Shutzhund Kennel in Ca, 10 yrs as a vet tech,grew up with Dobermans... turned 40 last Sept, so, not like I am a big dog virgin...)


HOWEVER, my hubby is. He has 2 almost 10 yr old Boxers. We have been together almost 6 years, married a year ago last August. He is a small business owner, which was robbed 3 years ago. I brought up "PPD's", Guard stock, etc. His insurance guy said we would be better off getting our Conceal/Carry permits. So we did. 

I learned about Sam from a horse forum back in October. His Previous Owner was in trouble with CPS, because her 1 yr old daughter broke her leg, after a tangle with Sam's chain in the barn.(See where THIS is heading?) She had posted about weight gaining issues with 'her dog', but left out the part where she kept him in a shipping pallet "kennel"- 4 feet wide, 8 feet long, in a dark corner of her horse barn. Fed him 2 cups a day of the cheap co-op "hi Pro" blend dog food. 

LOOONG story short-er, I drove 400+ miles to go get Sam. I was told that it took them 3 weeks to get him to come out of his crate to even accept treats from them... so "Don't be surprised of he's a bit shy".

My view half way home that night:









Pretty shy, huh?

Well, I decided Sam had the shaft over his short life, as I was now his 3rd owner. I chose to keep him on leash, & have him sleep on the floor on my side of the bed. 2 am that first night, he let me know he needed to go out with a big ol' Grizzly paw upside my head. :crazy:

All was well, until, Hubby's male Boxer decided to show his Alpha side. All Sam did was poke Pete on the hip, then drop his front end to play. Pete, who was diagnosed recently with Lymphosarcomas,& has approx 30-90 days to live, showed teeth, & postured at Sam. 

Now, here's the conundrum for me. 

Hubby encouraged the boxer, saying, "Get'em, Pete!" Which caused Old dog to show MORE teeth, & take a defensive stiff stance. Hubby backed him up, encouraging it, even though I was not ok with it. (All in fun, right? )

So, now that a few weeks have passed, Sam has taken it personal, & has pinned Pete under the Speedy Delivery Truck, trying to kill him. Sam Lunges at Pete, when ever there is food present, even though Pete is fed in a different area from Sam. 

I STILL have Sam on leash, at my side, 24/7. 

So, my question is this, How can I keep my dog from trying to kill Hubby's dying dog, &/or keep him from lunging at the other dog from my side, when the other dog, who is now so terrified of Sam, he will not get out of the vehicle when Hubby comes home from work with him, if Sam is in the yard?

I don't want to beat my dog, but Hubby is ><that close to shooting him/.


(Yes, there is past animosity between me & the boxers... they killed my 2 siamese cats 3 years ago... so, I'm lookin' at it like Karma's a bitch, right?)

:help:


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

that is a pickle if i ever heard one. Sounds to me like your hubby needs some training as well as the dogs. I can only say (i say this because i hold grudges, especially when it comes to my animals) that i hope the more knowledgable, far more levelheaded people chime in soon because personally.... his dogs having killed your cats a few years ago..... i agree totally with the karma is a bitch thing. He egged his elderly dog on and YOUR dog responded as a result whereas i'm sure there would have been no hard feelings otherwise. like i said i hold a grudge so i would secretly be waiting for the old dog to freak himself out into a heart attack. But i definitely say you need to have a very serious talk with your husband regarding the situation and that egging them on like that wasnt a smart idea and you think it might be wise for him to learn about GSDs and do some training with your dog. and not allow the older dogs in the house the permission to be buttheads, which also goes for your dog.


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## Rockin M Ranch (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you So much, KZ! There are 3 other dogs in the household... the female 10 yr old boxer, a 4 yr old Pug, & a yearling **** hound... Sam has absolutely zero issues with any of them. Him & the hound play, wrestle & run our 10 acres of invisible fence all day long, then the pair follow my 12 yr old son after school around the rest of our 120 acres as he works horses for me. Apparently, it is great fun for a dog to run alongside a horse, & race, lol!

Had a showdown with Hubby tonight, he's pulling the "I have lived here for 20 years, Pete has been here for 10, he has Seniority" crap. (He is SO not getting the fact that HE instigated this!)

If anyone has any idea how to keep Sam from killing Pete, other than what I am doing by keeping him on leash, doing the Caesar Milan "PSSSSHT!" poke in the neck when Sam locks in on him...please let me know.

The part that REALLY ticks me off? It was all cool 2 years ago when the Boxers put the Pug in his place, right?


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

i think the problem is the fact you seem to know more about dogs and behaviors and your husband doesnt really have a clue. You said you're not new to GSDs so you know the breed and you know full well they can hold grudges. I'm surprised to hear Sam is a male holding a grudge though as its usually the females who dont play the "i'm over it and i'm cool" card. Once they start a grudge they're in it for blood. Have you pointed out to your husband that Sam has NO problems with the other dogs save for the boxer he egged on? That should be a clue/eye opener as well. For someone whos had his boxers for 10 years.... well i would have hoped he would have learned something about canine behavior an cues. There was an issue that started and insteading of immediately correctly, it was worsened to the point you're at now. Really unless your husband has an eye opening experience, the only thing you may be able to do is continue to tether Sam to you andallow him to at least enjoy the time with the other dogs until the one who is sick passes on since if i read that right, isnt long for this world. Maybe after the one is gone and peace is fully restored, he'll see Sam isnt problematic with the other fur kids. also sounds to me like the boxers can do no wrong in your hubby's opinion. 

Sidenote: the dogs and the cats are mine. My husband has nothing really to do with them except for letting them out to potty. or helping when i ask. beyond that i feed, groom, walk, take to the vet, train....


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

another thing you can try is positive association. Whenever Pete is around and both are behaving and being calm and Sam is focused on you, he gets a tasty treat! It would be easier if you're husband was on board but its still something you can do on your own. Its something Victoria Stillwell does. Good things happen when the other is around.


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## lizzyjo (Jan 6, 2011)

Sounds alittle familiar to me. My 5 year old boxer, passed away last week. They are funny animals. He put all my dogs in their places. a chihuahua, a pekinese, a boston terrier AND finally got my GSD puppy. I think the older they get the more agressive they get. the pekinese was a grudge holder. Of course being so small i had to keep them seperated. when spike passed we have peace. I loved spike more than any dog we have or had ,,,untill my puppy ruger. good luck...be patient keep them away from each other and safe....
.


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## Rockin M Ranch (Mar 2, 2011)

Ok, thank you for "hearing" what I am trying to say! Apparently,I have a husband training issue, not necessarily a dog training issue, right? 

I have discovered that "Beggin' Strips, aka Boxer Crack, is an attention getter when the moods seem to be tense. (Yea, I know, NOT good for my big goober Sam... but Pete's on pred, so Hubby calls the mood swings " 'roid rage"... the fakin' bacon causes Boxer bubbles.. which disgusts me myself to no end...)









Anyways, So it's not mean to Sam to keep him tethered to me till Pete kicks the bucket?

Here's a pic of an off leash stand off, no "Dad" around.







note the non confrontational female boxer in front with the red collar...

apparently the issue is when Dad is around.

Other than the Pete issue, Sam has a ball "OCD", does not matter WHO is "threatening his ball", 









even if it's a 1200# horse!

(Ok, so reading back what I myself wrote... I got my hands full here, huh!)


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Rockin M Ranch said:


> Other than the Pete issue, Sam has a ball "OCD", does not matter WHO is "threatening his ball"


If he doesn't like anyone near his ball, it isn't OCD, it's resource guarding and shouldn't be allowed. Does Sam lunge at the other dogs or tense up when you get near his food (or toys) or is it just Pete that he doesn't allow near it? 

While your husband didn't help the problem, he certainly didn't cause it. Pete growled before your husband stepped into the picture and encouraged it nono: bad husband). Was Pete the top dog before you brought Sam home? If so, I would think that he was just letting Sam know that he rules this pack and Sam may be challenging that knowing that Pete is weak.

I don't see a problem with managing the relationship between Pete and Sam if Pete truly doesn't have much longer to live. Personally, I would be on top of Sam constantly so that Pete could live his remaining days in peace. He didn't ask for another dog to be brought into the home, especially in his weakend state. 

Hubby needs doggie 101 because if he encourages the other dogs to act like that, you are going to have a real problem on your hands.


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## Rockin M Ranch (Mar 2, 2011)

I see what you are saying, I guess I worded that wrong. Sam sees a ball, like "Dug"from the movie "Up" sees Squirrels. He'll be bee boppin' along, & I say, "Sam! Ball!" He turns himself inside out to get it. 

As for food, it's Just Pete. He shares his food with the pug & hound, even though I'm not ok with sharing. This dog gets this food, that one gets that... other than crates, which upsets the whole fam damily, I have to be the food Nazi & stand over feeding time. Pete walks by, it's WWE Smack Down. 

So, what you are suggesting is I need to be ON Sam, & prevent eye contact, along with me already trying to prevent them from physical contact? 

I can do that.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Rockin M Ranch said:


> So, what you are suggesting is I need to be ON Sam, & prevent eye contact, along with me already trying to prevent them from physical contact?
> 
> I can do that.


That's what I would do. Dog fights usually start with subtle looks that we humans miss. You don't need to prevent ALL eye contact but I wouldn't allow staring or prolonged eye contact and I would be rewarding both every time they are near each other and behave.


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

If this is just a short term problem I would work more on avoidance than solution.

Feed the other dogs first while keeping the GSD out of the room, then take those dogs out of the room and let the GSD eat in peace.


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

Personally I'd just keep Sam away from the boxer and let the poor old guy live out his remaining days in peace. 30 - 90 days isn't that long to manage this. Feed them in seperate rooms, walk them seperately (potty breaks included), and crate rotate when they are all in the house.

Sam sounds like the problem, not the boxer. Sam is resource guarding and behaving aggressively towards the boxer. Yes the boxer gave him a growl, but husband egging him on or not, this would've happened anyway since no one stepped in from the get go to correct the boxer.


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## DharmasMom (Jul 4, 2010)

I don't think it sounds like that at all. It sounds like Sam, upon meeting Pete, tried to get him to play. I'm sure the fact Pete is sick and dying he really wasn't to keen on that idea and got aggressive with Sam which your hubby encouraged. The encouragement allowed Pete to become more aggressive and even though your post didn't specifically state it, it sounds like this behavior may have cont for a couple of weeks until Sam decided he had enough bullying and fought back and gave Pete a thorough butt whooping. 

Personally, I think you should roll up a newspaper and smack your hubby in the head with it until gets a clue. But if that isn't really an option maybe invest in some dog training books and get him to read them. 

I can't tell from your post if Sam is resource guarding over the balls, all I can say is you WILL know it when you see it. My foster was resource guarding me at one time- and I knew the behavior immediately. They will go after any other dog or person who they see as a threat to their desired object.


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## Rockin M Ranch (Mar 2, 2011)

Dharma, exactly it. Sam tried to play, Pete got ticked, & a few weeks later, outside, Sam got sick of it & pinned Pete under the truck. Yep, Hubby encouraged it, he feels Pete is the Top Dog, sick or not. The way Pete is breathing tonight, I don't think I'm going to have to worry about it for much longer.

I don't THINK Sam is resource guarding balls, he just LOVES to play fetch. (You know, like a Lab does, keeps retrieving, & even after you are done, they drop the ball on your foot, & give you "that" look? Expectant eyes, ears perked, tail going, slowly, Mouth not quite open, but a lip caught in a tooth, twitch if you fake them out by a stretch & yawn... THAT kind of ball obsession.)

Thanks for all your input & ideas, I will keep doing the keep him tied to me thing, feed the other dogs first, & make sure nobody gets a chance to "make faces" at anyone.


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