# O.m.g !!



## mandiah89

Ok so today has turned out horribly and still waiting right now to see how horrible its going to end.. here is what happened...

During the Canada Day Festivities Penny and I met a nice couple who has a beautiful Doberman and he invited Penny and I over for a playdate so today we went over... The dogs were playing things were fine and then about an hour into the play we were about to leave when we noticed a dollar sized spot of fur/skin that that been ripped off of the dobermans side!!! The doberman never made a noise never cried or yelped or whined or anything! There wasnt much blood and when I mean wasnt much there was a few spots of blood, yes it looked gross but it was barely bleeding so he said he was going to take him in and clean it up and Penny and I left... 

Now I dont know how he found me on Facebook but he did and he sent me a message saying he needed to take his dog to the vet and wanted help paying for the bill, stating "he took a picture and sent it to the vet and they are preping for surgery!" WHA? First I dont know any vets esp. around here that you can take a picture and send it to them and they will automatically say ok we are prepping for surgery... He then goes on to state that my home owners insurance should cover the cost of the vet (for one I dont own a house, I live with my parents right now and even if I did this didnt happen on MY property it happened on his)... 

Anyway so instead of "helping" with the vet bills he now wants me to pay the whole thing, which to me is ridiculous anytime you get dogs together its always at your own risk, and I have no problem paying for half of the cost but in no way should I have to pay the full amount. Penny did not to this aggressively or intentionally, we did not see it even happen and there was definitely no noise from the doberman that indicated he was hurt like that. 

So I am waiting to hear back from him as to what happened at the vets, I feel bad as its Penny who caused the injury but I do not feel that I should be responsibly for the entire bill, as I said its at your own risk he invited me over for the playdate on his property ect. I will pay for half of the bill but not all of it, but he is insisting I pay the full amount... 

Im stressing out and I dont want this looking bad on Penny because she is definitely NOT aggressive and does not have a mean bone in her body, she has been with at least 50 dogs in her life so far and has never done anything aggressively to any of them nor caused any harm... 

UGG dont know what to do right now!


----------



## Gretchen

I would find out the vet's name and address, go speak to them in person. See if they will disclose if it is the Doberman's regular vet or not. Also is it possible the fur got ripped off from something else? gravel or a tree or post? 

Since both parties agreed to play, if everything seems legit, then 50% of cost is reasonable, but not 100%. 

Personally, if I were to invite someone and their dog over for a play date, I would assume all the risk since I initiated it.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

How do you know Penny even did it? The doberman could have caught itself on 'something'..

Sorry I would say, sorry this happened, but I don't even know that "my" dog is responsible . Hope she's ok" And NO I would not pay the vet bill. 

I would however, want to know why the dog needs surgery?????? and I would want the vets name & number..

I would also say, YOU invited ME over, the dogs were playing, again, don't even know if Penny did anything....

Tell him to email you pictures, I'd love to see what this 'wound' looks like.


----------



## gsdraven

Agree with the others. I wouldn't be paying and if I did, it would go directly to the vet after seeing an itemized bill. There is no proof that Penny caused the injury especially if you were there and no one heard or saw anything. Do not agree to anything without more information. Not sure what kind of surgery would be required?!


----------



## GsdLoverr729

JakodaCD OA said:


> *How do you know Penny even did it?* The doberman could have caught itself on 'something'..
> 
> Sorry I would say, sorry this happened, but I don't even know that "my" dog is responsible . Hope she's ok" And NO I would not pay the vet bill.
> 
> I would however, want to know why the dog needs surgery?????? and* I would want the vets name & number..*
> 
> I would also say, YOU invited ME over, the dogs were playing, again, don't even know if Penny did anything....
> 
> Tell him to email you pictures, *I'd love to see what this 'wound' looks like.*


I agree with Jakoda, especially on the bolded points.


----------



## mandiah89

Well I told him him that once he has seen the vet and the vet has decided what to do to let me know and we would discuss the amount I would help with, I didnt tell him I would pay half and I didnt respond when he told me that he wants me to pay for the entire bill, I simply told him that once the vet has seen him and the bill was in we would discuss it further at that point and left it at that... 

They were running on grass and I did not see the doberman fall or anything and there was nothing for the dog to get caught on.. I will also mention that Penny likes to nip at heels of dogs that are fast than she is perhaps she nipped his side Im not sure...


----------



## mandiah89

Oh I just got a message from him, it cost him $130 at the vet, so obviously there was no surgery involved... So I messaged and told him I would pay HALF of the cost so $65, waiting to see what he says


----------



## Jax08

In the future, unless you know for certain your dog did it...do NOT take responsibility and even say you'll "discuss" something.

And get a copy of that bill before you hand over any money.


----------



## Loneforce

I wouldn't pay a dime until I talked to the vet and see what you are paying for. I would treat it like an auto accident. Never admit fault. Unless you seen penny do that to the other dog. How are you to know these people are not playing you. Be very careful with these people, especially since they looked you up. Something don't sound right about this whole thing.


----------



## Nigel

My male nips at my females all the time while engaged in play and they don't lose fur or skin and if he gets too rough they let him know it. Unless you inspected the lawn inch by inch you never know what there. Could be exposed ground rods, tree stakes left behind, maybe broken glass that was never cleaned up properly, especially if they have kids. There is no proof your dog did the damage.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

your crazy (no insult intended here!),,I wouldn't pay a stinken dime..and I would NOT tell him Penny likes to nip heels, don't give him any more ammunition!

I would want to see the bill, and I would tell him you want to see a pic of the wound.

You SHOULD NOT have told him you'd pay anything..until you see a bill and pic of the wound..

HE invited YOU onto his property,,crap happens, would you be doing what he's doing if it happened on your property? And would HE pay? I doubt it..

I would tell him right now, you want a copy of the bill and a pic of the wound, who knows he could have added stuff to the bill?


----------



## mandiah89

JakodaCD OA said:


> your crazy (no insult intended here!),,I wouldn't pay a stinken dime..and I would NOT tell him Penny likes to nip heels, don't give him any more ammunition!
> 
> I would want to see the bill, and I would tell him you want to see a pic of the wound.
> 
> You SHOULD NOT have told him you'd pay anything..until you see a bill and pic of the wound..
> 
> HE invited YOU onto his property,,crap happens, would you be doing what he's doing if it happened on your property? And would HE pay? I doubt it..
> 
> I would tell him right now, you want a copy of the bill and a pic of the wound, who knows he could have added stuff to the bill?


I never told him she likes to nip heels, was just stating that to you guys to give you some idea what might have happened... And I asked him for the bill and have gotten no response, I called the vet he said he went to and they are closed.. so until I have a copy of the bill in my hand with exactly what was done I wont be paying until then, and I know I shouldnt have said I would pay anything but whats done is done, and its a very small town here and I wouldnt want him making stuff up or whatever and getting Penny and me trashed if I didnt pay I kinda felt trapped so if it clears the air and I have PROOF then I will pay half and be done with it


----------



## JakodaCD OA

well I admire you for offering to pay half, but again, do not pay it unless you see a copy of the bill...and even then, since you don't really know these people, I would call the vet to make sure he even went there,

Make sure you are paying the half for things related to the incident, nothing extra..

Sometimes they throw in extra stuff that is not related to what happened..

Keep us updated, I STILL would like to see a pic of this "wound"


----------



## mandiah89

Well he just messaged me back and said that he doesnt think he should pay anything and that if it was my dog that "he would pay for all of it" and wants me to pay the full price, but Im sorry I wont do that... I will ask him to send me a picture of it, hopefully he will


----------



## Syaoransbear

He's stupid for taking his dog into the vet when it was just a chunk of fur missing. I live in Canada, I know what vet prices are like. $130 is the price you pay when a vet says "It's fine, just put some polysporin on it."


----------



## Nikitta

He sounds like a con artist and maybe some fake vet is in it with him. I would insist on seeing the itemized bill from the vet in person and make him show you he is actually a vet. THEN tell him to PROVE that your dog actually did the damage. Take him to small claims court if you have to. It sounds like total BS to me. They are out for a buck. Sad that you have to be careful with your pets too. Good luck.


----------



## Apple

Tools my dog to a friends place and he was rough housing with their Great Dane. When I got home he had a wound on his leg. Took him to the vet, he needed stitches. Didn't ask for anything from my friend. Accidents happen. It'd be like asking someone to pay for a bill for a doctors appointment for my daughter if she got sick at someone else's house! 
Kudos to you for offering to pay half, but like you, I would be asking for a copy of the bill and a picture of the wound. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## JakodaCD OA

stand your ground, to bad , it's easy for him to say he'd pay the whole thing if it was your dog..

I also think he sounds like he just doesn't want to pay..To bad, again, HE invited YOU over, there is really no proof it was Penny that did this, she could have had this before you even got there..Since no one noticed it..

And don't forget you want a copy of the bill to..and something else, I just thought of,,if you do pay half, you go to the vet's office and pay it, DON"T give him the money..go pay it directly yourself..


----------



## mandiah89

Well he just told me that he would (at work tomorrow) photo copy the bill and give it to me, and if he went to the vet that he said I know all the vets there so would be easy to know if he went to a real vet...

He sent me the laws stating about dog bites this that and the other thing and I sort of want to pay the full price as the law here it is, seems that I would be in the wrong 

The Dog Owners Liability Act provides that, "The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal." R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 1.

The dog owner is not only liable in damages, but also may be convicted of a crime and fined. "The owner of a dog shall exercise reasonable precautions to prevent it from biting or attacking a person or domestic animal." 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6. If a person fails to exercise such precautions, he or she may be found "guilty of an offence and liable, on conviction, to a fine not exceeding $5,000." 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6.

There is no requirement that the dog previously bit another person. "The liability of the owner does not depend upon knowledge of the propensity of the dog or fault or negligence on the part of the owner, but the court shall reduce the damages awarded in proportion to the degree, if any, to which the fault or negligence of the plaintiff caused or contributed to the damages." R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (3).

He also stated that his vet stated that it did not look like a playful bite that it was too deep which I dont know how she can say that if she doesnt even know my dog or even seen the incident and the lack of blood to me would be it wasnt very deep... So I agreed to pay all of the bill to avoid any legal involvement/having Penny taken by animal control or anything


----------



## Jax08

Wow...this guy is a jerk. Definitely get the ORIGINAL bill and pay the vet only AND get pictures AND have him call his vet so the vet can release the information for this visit to you. This guy is nuts.


----------



## Loneforce

Since he already has been looking up the laws. Make sure you get Marked copies of the bill paid in full. Keep them you may need them later.


----------



## Gretchen

Do you have small claims court in Canada? In my county in CA I can go online and look up civil court cases, which are often small claims and debts, etc.
See if you can go online to your local Superior Court or equivalent and see if the Dobie owner has a history of trying to get money out of people.

Something does not sound right about this.


----------



## Jax08

Does anyone else find this really weird?

Nobody sees what happened to the dog...Nobody. First it's no big deal. Then suddenly they facebook stalked her.

First the guy wants her to claim it on her homeowners insurance.

Then pay half. then pay all.

Who does this if not a scam artist?

Then he knows the law.

If I were you, I'd call the police and get some input before I did anything else. Don't respond to the guy. Don't agree to anything else. Call the police. This is just to weird.


----------



## GSD2

Jax08 said:


> Does anyone else find this really weird?
> 
> Nobody sees what happened to the dog...Nobody. First it's no big deal. Then suddenly they facebook stalked her.
> 
> First the guy wants her to claim it on her homeowners insurance.
> 
> Then pay half. then pay all.
> 
> Who does this if not a scam artist?
> 
> Then he knows the law.
> 
> If I were you, I'd call the police and get some input before I did anything else. Don't respond to the guy. Don't agree to anything else. Call the police. This is just to weird.



This is how scam artists work. First they get the person worried about getting homeowners insurance involved, which indicates a large sum of money, then the surgery, indicating a good amount of funds. Next thing you know it is $130.....

Please be careful about admitting guilt, once you pay you may be admitting guilt which could open a new can of worms. Perhaps you could speak with a lawyer for advice? Maybe someone on here would know the laws well enough to advise on this?


----------



## mandiah89

I will copy and past everything that was said... all through facebook message as there has been no other communication.... This will be long so sorry about that. 

Conversation started today

4:40pm
Jeremy 
Hey Amanda, it's Jeremy, Arson's owner. I hate to do this but I need to bring the dog in to get stitches and would really appreciate some help with the vet bill.

4:46pm
Jeremy 
It's a lot worse than I thought

4:46pm
Amanda 
Hi Jeremy. Let me know when you are back from the vets and what the vet said.

4:48pm
Jeremy 
Ok. I sent a picture to them and they are already getting ready for surgery

5:01pm
Jeremy 
Your home owners insurance will cover the cost
Or should
Can you call and ask if you have coverage?
You are a super nice person and hopefully you can get it covered but I think you do have to pay

5:06pm
Amanda 
Which vet are you at? Let me know once Arson sees the vet. Once you have seen the vet please let me know. We agreed to get our dogs together for a play date and I have no problem discussing helping with the vet bill.

5:07pm
Jeremy 
Berwick
Animal hospital
Yes we agreed to meet. What does that mean?

5:46pm
Jeremy 
It was $130

5:57pm
Jeremy 
Mandy?

6:31pm
Jeremy 
Hello

7:33pm
Amanda 
Ok I will pay half, sorry I was not home hence the late reply

8:17pm
Jeremy 
Honesty I think you should pay all of it. .. It's what I would do

8:22pm
Jeremy 
And honestly I would recommend not letting her off leash any more. I'm not mad at you, or at your dog, but we're lucky it wasn't a lot worse...
I actually saved a lot of money at the vet because I was able to keep him calm enough that he didn't need to be sedated and kept over night. If that was the case I would be asking for a lot more. Instead, it's just $130.
BTW we have the same birthday 
Amanda, I'm not trying to be a ****. If I was I would be making this a lot worse. Have you read the laws?

8:27pm
Jeremy 
The Dog Owners Liability Act provides that, "The owner of a dog is liable for damages resulting from a bite or attack by the dog on another person or domestic animal." R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 1.
The dog owner is not only liable in damages, but also may be convicted of a crime and fined. "The owner of a dog shall exercise reasonable precautions to prevent it from biting or attacking a person or domestic animal." 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6. If a person fails to exercise such precautions, he or she may be found "guilty of an offence and liable, on conviction, to a fine not exceeding $5,000." 2000, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 6.
There is no requirement that the dog previously bit another person. "The liability of the owner does not depend upon knowledge of the propensity of the dog or fault or negligence on the part of the owner, but the court shall reduce the damages awarded in proportion to the degree, if any, to which the fault or negligence of the plaintiff caused or contributed to the damages." R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 2 (3).

8:33pm
Amanda
yes i do realize the law.....here is my side of it....I believe that each person takes the risk when they have a play date with their dogs...I personally think maybe a little different than you that if the tables were turned I would only ask for half of the bill again based on the risk factor during a play date.....I do not have the money at this particular moment as I am waiting for my GST to come in which is late. If you are set on me paying the whole amount I will pay it (knowing I have voiced my side to you)...but can it wait unitl my GST comes in?

8:34pm
Amanda
And also if you could please provide a copy of the vet bill for my records?

8:50pm
Jeremy 
Amanda, my wife and I would really appreciate it if you covered the cost. And at the end of the day we don't have the money either. Based on the extent of the injury and from the Veterinarian's opinion that this wasn't just a playful bite, I don't think that this is associated with the regular risk of a play date.

8:50pm
Jeremy
The Vet said for the dog to bite as deeply as it did, it meant business and there was no way it was due to a playful bite.
I'm not in a rush or going to pressure you to pay tonight or even tomorrow. When you have the money, please let me know.
I will photocopy the bill from the vet tomorrow at work and have no problem giving you a copy.
Honestly, as the dogs owner, I just hope you keep an eye on her from now on; this is not pointing my finger at you or judging you in any way. But for the sake of the dog, keep a close eye on er.

8:52pm
Amanda 
ok...I will let you know as soon as I get my GST in.

8:53pm
Jeremy 
I do appreciate that.
If you're up for a walk sometime, on leash obviously, with both of our dogs, I'd love to do that too. Even for a beer after the walk.

9:01pm
Amanda 
Not a problem. and Im terribly sorry that this unfortunate event happened, I have had Penny around many other dogs including in both basic and advanced obedience, I was out in Windsor several times doing Shchutzhund, have met over 50 dogs both on and off leash big and small and have had l play dates pretty much everday since I brought her home include another doberman and several shepherds and a lab and NOTHING like this has ever happened.

9:01pm
Jeremy 
That's why I'm not going to report anything.

9:13pm
Amanda 
Anyway I will let you know as soon as GST comes in. Have a good night.

9:14pm
Jeremy 
Thank you for being understanding and you too.


----------



## Loneforce

WOW  Did you happen to type his name on google search? Is that even his real name?


----------



## Jax08

ummm....yeaha...don't go out for a walk with this guy and a beer afterwards...

What if he trips and gets a scratch on his knee or stubs his toe...imagine the bill for that!


----------



## mandiah89

Jax08 said:


> ummm....yeaha...don't go out for a walk with this guy and a beer afterwards...
> 
> What if he trips and gets a scratch on his knee or stubs his toe...imagine the bill for that!


No doubt! Thats why I never said anything to that because that is just stupid, Im not doing anything other than getting this taken care of and that let it be... I have also decided that I will be having no more play dates with anyone except for the lab and the two GSD's we have had playdates with since she was a tiny pup, other than that will be avoiding all other dogs its not worth the risk, never thought anything like this would happen


----------



## KZoppa

Jax08 said:


> ummm....yeaha...don't go out for a walk with this guy and a beer afterwards...
> 
> What if he trips and gets a scratch on his knee or stubs his toe...imagine the bill for that!


 
agree!!!! don't spend any more time with these people.


----------



## Apple

Nobody saw the incident. Who's to say his dog didn't have a go first and Penny was just quicker and smarter! Ugh... Sounds like he can't afford it and so he's trying to get you to pay for it. I'm sorry this happened.  


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Muskeg

Dobermans are notorious for skin problems and often have very thin, easily torn skin. They also frequently develop something called Von Willebrand's disease, that can result in numerous wounds that require stitching even without any obvious injury occurring. Basically some doberman rip open their skin by running into a door handle. Many owners rip-proof coats to protect their doberman's chest areas due to numerous wound requiring stitching. 

My shepherd plays "rough" but never breaks the skin. I could easily see her accidently ripping a hole in a doberman if the dog had really thin skin. In this case- the GSD is not being aggressive- far from it- the GSD just isn't aware that a "play bite" on a doberman with genetically thin skin could actually break the skin. 

If this is the case with this doberman, it is NOT Penny's fault. It is really the owner's fault for allowing a play date with a dog with very thin skin. It's important that he knows this about his dog so he doesn't accuse other dogs of being "vicious" when they are simply engaging in typical play biting behavior. 

I would NOT pay this bill until you have talked to a legal professional because payment is admission of guilt. I know it is uncomfortable because this person is a sort of friend, but be careful. 

Here's a thread with some information on Doberman's skin issues: Thin skinned Dobie - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums


----------



## Twyla

I'm like everyone else. This is a scam.

Insist on picking up a copy of the bill at the vet's office, don't accept a copy of it sent via email from the dobie owner. It is way to easy to edit documents. Insist the dobie owner give the vet permission to discuss this incident with you. It is your right to have this information.

If your decision to pay stands, before exchanging any money, insist on a notarized document that in the case of any further expenses, the owner will be responsible and not contact you any further on this matter.


----------



## Shaolin

I think you got played and in an epic sort of way.

IMHO, get in contact with an attorney immediately to try to mitigate any other fall out; a contract can be written up stating if you pay the 130$, he cannot come after you for any other damages or come after you/Penny in a legal way.

I would also avoid this human at all costs.


----------



## Walperstyle

No proof, no pay. Got a problem, spend thousands on a lawyer and try to come after me. 

That is what I would say. Dog could have easily lost its fur from something else.

Edit: Who actually goes to the vet for some missing fur and blood? Dogs tend wounds themselves very well.


----------



## llombardo

I think its a con to, but I don't like his tone. Can he report your dog and cause problems? This is a sticky situation. He is probably banking on the fact that you don't want him to report your dog, I'm not to sure what he would do if you refuse. I would call both the police and a lawyer. Don't say anything to him about talking to the lawyer or police. I would use that as part of the argument later on, he might be surprised that you went that far.


----------



## Malachi'sMama

Walperstyle said:


> No proof, no pay. Got a problem, spend thousands on a lawyer and try to come after me.


This. Exactly.
There is NO proof that your dog did this. He can't do anything. He can't even say that he saw your dog do it..
He doesn't have the money to take you to civil court or pay for a lawyer.
So his threats are empty. 
And if he HONESTLY thought your dog did this, why would he invite you to go on a walk or engage in ANY future contact? Makes no sense.

I wouldn't contact him when you have the money. I wouldn't pay. And I would leave it at that.
He can't do anything to you or your dog. 
And if he tried to at a later date, AC's or the police's response will be--'and why didn't you contact us immediately when this happened?? sorry, we can't do anything..'

that's the bottom line.
sorry this happened, but DO NOT pay.


----------



## jafo220

Sent from Petguide.com Free App

It may be a con maybe not. He doesn't have to have any money to file a complaint and cause alot of grief for you. I'd get a couple professional aquaintances together explain whats going on get them to come with you to pay the bill. I would use cash (untracable) and have a short innocent conversation with him and have those friends there as witnesses to the transaction. Make sure you have him agree that you paying the bill is not admitting guilt, and by paying the bill he is not to pursue anything else legal or monitarily. If you can get him to sign an agreement all the better, but be careful. It could cause him to go further with this. If it were myself, I'd tell him you had to borrow the money and they wanted a signed document that this is it or something. You need to appear not worth the time and effort to scam. You need to cut ties with this guy fast and if you see them out, ignore amd get away from them. Cut ties fast!


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I still think you should have waited and not said anything about paying the entire bill.

I don't care what the law said, NO ONE SAW THIS HAPPEN, no proof. 

I would NOT put the cash in HIS hands, I would go directly to the vet and pay. He sounds like a real jerk. 

And I still want to see a picture of this 'wound'..if it was that bad, I would think you would have heard something .. I know if any of my dogs are racing around and get nailed by another dog (which has never happened), you can bet mine are going to turn around and nail them just out of a reaction. 

I like the above suggestion, BEFORE you pay the bill write up something, saying you are agreeing to pay the bill but NOT admitting guilt of any kind because NO ONE saw what really happened, and make him sign it, if he doesn't don't pay until he does. 

Honestly, I would talk to the local AC and tell them exactly what happened and what you did and did not see. I would ask their opinion..

Don't put in writing, even on the net, anything that makes YOU look like the guilty party..I WISH you had not told him you would pay the whole bill...


----------



## mandiah89

I am going to be calling AC in a few minuets and ask them (in hypothetical) where whos rights stand where and who is responsible for what ect. I will post back once I have spoken to them.


----------



## Malachi'sMama

please do, I'm curious to hear what they have to say on the matter..hopefully you speak to someone there who's knowledgeable and helpful.


----------



## kiya

I would speak to the vet in person, since nobody witnessed the "bite" no yelps or anything I would ask for a written statement from the vet on how they determined the injury happened. I would not pay cash to anyone, get a bank check if you decide to pay and I would even look into getting a notorized statement from him saying no further action would be taken against you.


----------



## jafo220

JakodaCD OA said:


> I still think you should have waited and not said anything about paying the entire bill.
> 
> I don't care what the law said, NO ONE SAW THIS HAPPEN, no proof.
> 
> I would NOT put the cash in HIS hands, I would go directly to the vet and pay. He sounds like a real jerk.
> 
> And I still want to see a picture of this 'wound'..if it was that bad, I would think you would have heard something .. I know if any of my dogs are racing around and get nailed by another dog (which has never happened), you can bet mine are going to turn around and nail them just out of a reaction.
> 
> I like the above suggestion, BEFORE you pay the bill write up something, saying you are agreeing to pay the bill but NOT admitting guilt of any kind because NO ONE saw what really happened, and make him sign it, if he doesn't don't pay until he does.
> 
> Honestly, I would talk to the local AC and tell them exactly what happened and what you did and did not see. I would ask their opinion..
> 
> Don't put in writing, even on the net, anything that makes YOU look like the guilty party..I WISH you had not told him you would pay the whole bill...




Sent from Petguide.com Free App

I the end, there ia no proof either way. But all it takes is the one making the decision to see it his way and your screwed. It's another risk you don't need. 

I don't think this guys is running around with a Dobi with a hole in it's side scamming for money at $136 a pop. But there ia one thing thats clear. These were the only two dogs in the area and the Dobi is the one with the injury. Even if the GSD didn't do it, who's to say in a stragers mind they didn't? I would also want to visually see the wound first hamd myself to confirm it's there but...........

Pay this guy in front of witnesses, get him to sign a release and run as fast as you can away from this before he decides or feela your not going to pay and wants to file a complaint. Maybe you win but maybe you loose and not knowing the laws there they may want to quarantine your dog who knows. But I'd find a fast resolution if it were me.


----------



## Roemly's Mama

kiya said:


> I would speak to the vet in person, since nobody witnessed the "bite" no yelps or anything I would ask for a written statement from the vet on how they determined the injury happened. I would not pay cash to anyone, get a bank check if you decide to pay and I would even look into getting a notorized statement from him saying no further action would be taken against you.


This, as well as what others are saying to pay the vet in person. Do NOT give the money to this person. OP you seem to be hinging that after paying the entire bill that it will go away and there will be no further action. Well, I think that is a far reach. This person might be starting with the $136 now, but that might lead to thousands later. You also seem worried about this person yapping it up around town and such-well...he might do that anyway! You are making a lot of assumptions that this will turn out good if you just pay-scammers count on that.

I"m not sure I would pay it and get a statement that paying doesn't mean admission of guilt, etc. Consult a lawyer before you go that route. Just because you say it, or get him or her to admit it doesn't mean it makes it kosher legally. Paying might still in a judges eyes mean admission of guilt. 

This sounds like a professional scammer. He knows what he is doing-he has the laws ready and he knows he can get money out of you as you have said or at least inferred you will pay half. The scam will not stop here. I would not pay this bill at all. I would do the "prove it" route. OR take the dog to a vet of your choosing for a second opinion. We like to think that vets are nice people, but they can be in on the scam as well. They come up with a need for thousands of dollars and get part of the cut. I dunno... I wouldn't pay. 

Good luck.


----------



## fuzzybunny

I would at the very least, speak to the vet yourself. If it's a multiple vet clinic, get a second opinion on cause. My dog once bit my friend's dog and I agreed to pay half the bill because there was blame on both sides. I paid her vet directly and got a copy of the bill as well. If you do pay this bill, do not give the money to the person directly.


----------



## mandiah89

Sorry I haven't posted but I got busy with work and havent gotten on.. anyway.. I called animal control first and they told me they are going to investigate the laws and see exactly which rights lye with which person ect. to call back after 1pm... So I am waiting to hear back.. Now I never mentioned details just the scenario which took place of course speaking hypothetically... So will let you know what they said, they said it might sound like a civil matter but they are going to look into it... so before I call anyone else I want to know what they say and clear everyone off the list one by one, AC, Police and the vet and THEN a Lawyer


----------



## ozzymama

Here's my take on it, has the vet asked for your immunization records? Is the dobe being quarantined for a possible bite by an unvacc'd dog? Has A/C shown up at your house asking for records - if not, the guy is blowing smoke. Call the vet he's using, identify yourself and ask if he needs your vac records. If the vet has no clue what you are talking about - tell the dobes owner to go eat cake.


----------



## Syaoransbear

mandiah89 said:


> Sorry I haven't posted but I got busy with work and havent gotten on.. anyway.. I called animal control first and they told me they are going to investigate the laws and see exactly which rights lye with which person ect. to call back after 1pm... So I am waiting to hear back.. Now I never mentioned details just the scenario which took place of course speaking hypothetically... So will let you know what they said, they said it might sound like a civil matter but they are going to look into it... so before I call anyone else I want to know what they say and clear everyone off the list one by one, AC, Police and the vet and THEN a Lawyer


Did you make it very clear to them that there is absolutely no proof of your dog being the one responsible for the wound, and that no one saw your dog inflict the injury and the doberman never yelped or indicated that it was bitten? I'm pretty sure this guy has no case.

I think this guy is scamming you as well. The way he talks is weird and reminds me of the people who would try to scam me on the internet. I just can't imagine needing stitches for something that wasn't bleeding. My dog had a scuffle over food with my SIL's dog and he bit her neck. There was quite a bit of blood but she still didn't need stitches, and the wound healed up on its own.


----------



## mandiah89

Syaoransbear said:


> Did you make it very clear to them that there is absolutely no proof of your dog being the one responsible for the wound, and that no one saw your dog inflict the injury and the doberman never yelped or indicated that it was bitten? I'm pretty sure this guy has no case.
> 
> I think this guy is scamming you as well. The way he talks is weird and reminds me of the people who would try to scam me on the internet. I just can't imagine needing stitches for something that wasn't bleeding. My dog had a scuffle over food with my SIL's dog and he bit her neck. There was quite a bit of blood but she still didn't need stitches, and the wound healed up on its own.


I did not mention my name or any specifics this is roughly what I told them

"In a hypotheical scenario where two dog owners meet on the street and you talk to them while you both have your dogs the one invites the other owner to bring their dog to play, once that owner comes over to play and the play lasts an hour and after that hour the dog whose owner who initiated the playdate notice a skin injury on the dog, the dog owner then wants for the bill to be paid in full by the other owner when no one saw the injury occur and it was not audibly or visually apparent".

They told me they were going to investigate it and see exactly who would be liable for what.


----------



## Syaoransbear

mandiah89 said:


> I did not mention my name or any specifics this is roughly what I told them
> 
> "In a hypotheical scenario where two dog owners meet on the street and you talk to them while you both have your dogs the one invites the other owner to bring their dog to play, once that owner comes over to play and the play lasts an hour and after that hour the dog whose owner who initiated the playdate notice a skin injury on the dog, the dog owner then wants for the bill to be paid in full by the other owner when no one saw the injury occur and it was not audibly or visually apparent".
> 
> They told me they were going to investigate it and see exactly who would be liable for what.


To be honest it sounds more like a fur injury than a skin injury, lol .


----------



## Lilie

ozzymama said:


> Here's my take on it, has the vet asked for your immunization records? Is the dobe being quarantined for a possible bite by an unvacc'd dog? Has A/C shown up at your house asking for records - if not, the guy is blowing smoke. Call the vet he's using, identify yourself and ask if he needs your vac records. If the vet has no clue what you are talking about - tell the dobes owner to go eat cake.


X2!! A co-worker's daughter was bitten by a dog last night while walking down the street. Large dog, but a small bite, didn't break the skin. But A/C is going nuts trying to find out who owned the dog. They want all the records etc. Even brought in the Sheriff's dept. to watch for the dog. 

A know a human bite is different, but if the vet is treating the dog they should be concerned for the dog's well being.


----------



## mandiah89

Ok so just got off with AC again and I guess they havent figured it out so they will call me when the main AC officer gets back from an emergency call.... Should I go ahead and Call the vets right now and ask them about the vac. records and see what was done (if anything)? Or should I wait till I hear what AC has to say


----------



## Jax08

You know...if they are accusing your dog of biting theirs, you have a right to their shot records as well to ensure your dog is safe.

I would wait to see what AC has to say, though I doubt they would know all the facets of that law. 

A vet will not release records without owner permission. Did you ask this yahoo to release these records to you so you can verify the incident and cost with the vet?


----------



## Sunflowers

Have you thought of calling your own vet to discuss the situation?
If it is known that Dobermans are thin-skinned, I'm surprised that person's vet would say that it could not have been a simple nip because the aspect of the hole.
So I don't think his vet will be on your side at all. I would get in touch with my own before talking to the Dobe's vet.


----------



## jafo220

Roemly's Mama said:


> This, as well as what others are saying to pay the vet in person. Do NOT give the money to this person. OP you seem to be hinging that after paying the entire bill that it will go away and there will be no further action. Well, I think that is a far reach. This person might be starting with the $136 now, but that might lead to thousands later. You also seem worried about this person yapping it up around town and such-well...he might do that anyway! You are making a lot of assumptions that this will turn out good if you just pay-scammers count on that.
> 
> I"m not sure I would pay it and get a statement that paying doesn't mean admission of guilt, etc. Consult a lawyer before you go that route. Just because you say it, or get him or her to admit it doesn't mean it makes it kosher legally. Paying might still in a judges eyes mean admission of guilt.
> 
> This sounds like a professional scammer. He knows what he is doing-he has the laws ready and he knows he can get money out of you as you have said or at least inferred you will pay half. The scam will not stop here. I would not pay this bill at all. I would do the "prove it" route. OR take the dog to a vet of your choosing for a second opinion. We like to think that vets are nice people, but they can be in on the scam as well. They come up with a need for thousands of dollars and get part of the cut. I dunno... I wouldn't pay.
> 
> Good luck.




Sent from Petguide.com Free App

Or this guy is just like the OP and doesn't have the funds to treat his dog. In the end, if the laws he stated are legit, then the OP by law has the responsability to pay for damages. Either way I'm trying to look past the cost and am thinking of the posibilities of what could happen to the OP's GSD. It may be looked on as a "mean dog". What ever it takes to get away from this guy will only benefit the GSD. From his replys, it sounds to me like he would file a complaint if the bill is not paid in full. If he decides to go to court then it's out of your control and you should find plenty of witnesses for your side to show your dog is not mean, but it was all a misshap. But thats up to a lawyer to figure out whats necessary.


----------



## Jax08

I agree. And her responses are in writing so she's already agreed to pay, which implies responsibility. At this point, I would make sure the money went ONLY to the vet with a printed bill from the vet, not a photo copy, a copy of the vet records for this incident, and a signed document releasing her from any further damages. And I would make sure it's noted in there that nobody witnessed the incident.

As far as the vet wanting shot records from the OP, when I took Jax in for a bite the vet never asked about records that I remember. So not all vets would ask or the man may have blown off the question.


----------



## Cheyanna

How do you know this was a fresh injury? Did you see the dobie before play and see the location without injury?

He is a total scammer. He has to prove Penny did it. He cannot. No worries about losing Penny.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## rumhelka

I used to take my dog to play with a young Lab in his yard (fenced with a chain link fence). The Lab was very "crazy" and active and all of a sudden started to bleed profusly from his front paw. I knew my dog did not bite him and the Lab was jumping constantly on her and also on the fence. We investigated the fence, and indeed, it had very sharp wires sticking out and the Lab got caught on them. It can also happen with any sharp bushes, like asaleas, when the branch breaks and leaves a sharp end. That's why we shouldn't allow the dogs to play with sharp sticks which can injure another dog's eye. There was no prove that your dog did something to the other dog. As far as human is concerned, when a dog breaks the skin, but it's not serious, I would show the proof of immunization, advise to wash the scratch with soap and water and try not to call home insurance, because they will cancel my policy!


----------



## Jax08

rumhelka said:


> and try not to call home insurance, because they will cancel my policy!


I know, right! At the very least your premiums would go up. That is just a crazy suggestion. You want to use that for very large damages, not small things that may or may not be your fault. And the HO insurance would investigate. They don't just pay out claims because someone says so when there is no proof of what really happened.


----------



## Msmaria

I didnt get to read all the responses, but I think you were more than fair to offer half. Are you sure the dog didnt have the injury before you went over? If your like most people, we dont go around fully checking out the other dog before they have playtime. it possible the dog was already injured. Wow this guy sounds like a piece of work. Sorry your having to go through this.


Update. I see Cheyanna had the same question as me


----------



## Daisy

I haven't read all of the responses, but did read the communciation b/t you two. He would have frightened me by his over-friendliness and pushiness right off the bat. Please be careful. I agree that this sounds like a scam. There is also no telling what he is really after. Many devious people out there have befriended first. Hope you can get some counsel before proceeding.


----------



## Betty

Tell them your dog has been limping since the play date and you need xrays. Ask them where to send the bill.

Same amount of proof. Honestly I would not even bother responding to him.

He didn't see anything, you didn't see anything. 

No more play dates!


----------



## mandiah89

To those asking... no I did not notice any injury on the dog when went there but I also didnt say WAIT let me examine your dog to make sure it has no injuries either, it could have been there and I just didnt see it or it might not have been there... 

I just got off the phone with the Animal Control officer and she told me NOT to pay a dime... To tell him to call the vet office and have them call me with the specifics like the extent of the injury, what are possible causes for that injury and also what the exact treatment was and then tell him once you have heard from the vet I will make a decision on what I deem is fair payment if any at all... But the AC officer told me not to pay him, and for me to call her back once I have heard from the vets office. She also says this sounds extremely weird and that unless he has hard rock evidence that my dog caused the injury she wont be able to do anything anyway and would tell him not to waste her time. 

So Im still nervous as anything waiting in anticipation... But I know for sure that my dog is NOT aggressive and that nothing happened between the dogs that either of us noticed that would have caused an injury.

Ugg wish this sickening feeling would go away


----------



## Sunflowers

I hope this guy doesn't know where you live.


----------



## mandiah89

Well I messaged him and asked him to please have the vet call me as I want to hear from them what the extent of the injury was and what the causes could have been and also what the exact treatment was.. he messaged back saying they wont call me they can either write a letter or email me!!! WHAT thats bull!


----------



## Jax08

mandiah89 said:


> To those asking... no I did not notice any injury on the dog when went there but I also didnt say WAIT let me examine your dog to make sure it has no injuries either, it could have been there and I just didnt see it or it might not have been there...
> 
> I just got off the phone with the Animal Control officer and she told me NOT to pay a dime... To tell him to call the vet office and have them call me with the specifics like the extent of the injury, what are possible causes for that injury and also what the exact treatment was and then tell him once you have heard from the vet I will make a decision on what I deem is fair payment if any at all... But the AC officer told me not to pay him, and for me to call her back once I have heard from the vets office. She also says this sounds extremely weird and that unless he has hard rock evidence that my dog caused the injury she wont be able to do anything anyway and would tell him not to waste her time.
> 
> So Im still nervous as anything waiting in anticipation... But I know for sure that my dog is NOT aggressive and that nothing happened between the dogs that either of us noticed that would have caused an injury.
> 
> Ugg wish this sickening feeling would go away


There ya go. That's a pretty good answer.

If that was a serious bite, you would have been breaking up a fight and you would have known immediately.

I really like Betty's idea!


----------



## Jax08

mandiah89 said:


> Well I messaged him and asked him to please have the vet call me as I want to hear from them what the extent of the injury was and what the causes could have been and also what the exact treatment was.. he messaged back saying they wont call me they can either write a letter or email me!!! WHAT thats bull!


oh no way! He wants you to pay for something and won't let you talk to the vet? Tell him you aren't paying and tell to not contact you again. If he continues, call the police, print out any correspondence from him..

This smacks a little like blackmail to me.


----------



## Malachi'sMama

mandiah89 said:


> She also says this sounds extremely weird and that unless he has hard rock evidence that my dog caused the injury she wont be able to do anything anyway and would tell him not to waste her time.
> (


Exactly like I said. 
Don't stress yourself over this anymore. 
He can't do anything to you OR your Penny. 
Discontinue contact and stay away from him. 

At least I'm sure you'll be a lot more careful on playdates in the future-though most people wouldn't be such an a-hole when faced with a similar situation. I wouldn't dream of doing what he's done to you. 

You owe him nothing and he can't TOUCH you.


----------



## holland

I like the advice that AC gave you-Hope it all works out for you-try not to worry


----------



## Jax08

On second thought, don't respond back to him. Just call the police and explain the situation. This is along the lines of a scam or extortion. Empty threats and no proof of the incident.


----------



## Msmaria

It sounds like he wants to have all communication in writing to back him up. i saw in the communication that when you stated you guys agreed to meet up he asked what you meant by that. In that communication it sounds like your dog bit his and you were aware of it. Even though this is not true. But reading it, it sounds that way.

Maybe you should think about exactly you want to say to him including that he invited you over, that neither of you saw your dog bite his, that when you left neither of you knew how the injury occurred. tell him that you were being very nice in offering half even though you never saw your dog injure his dog in anyway. If he denies any of it then you know hes out to scam you. At the very least you could get the vets information to verify what he has been telling you.

Im surprised he didnt offer to meet up at your house, especially since he seems to know about the insurance laws covering it. If he doesnt leave you alone, you should contact the police.


----------



## Sunflowers

Well then let him have his vet email you. And make sure the email address is legitimate.


----------



## Jax08

Anyone can create an email address though. There is no reason the vet can not call her or they can't call and release the records for that incident to her.


----------



## vickip9

It might be time to just block this guy from Facebook. Stop responding. Stop all communication with him. If he's really intent on pursuing money from you, let him call the police. He will get the same answer from them that the AC told you. He has no proof, won't cooperate on giving you the vet's contact info, and is just insisting you give him money. It's not legit and it's time to stop playing into his scam. So just block him from Facebook and be done with it. You have absolutely nothing to worry about. And if you want to feel better in your own mind, you can be proactive and call the police to report the situation in case anything does come up down the road. But communication with this guy needs to end.


----------



## Jax08

Please print the conversation to a pdf with a time stamp before you block him. You may need evidence that he is harassing you.


----------



## vickip9

Jax08 said:


> Please print the conversation to a pdf with a time stamp before you block him. You may need evidence that he is harassing you.



Excellent point.


----------



## mandiah89

Jax08 said:


> Please print the conversation to a pdf with a time stamp before you block him. You may need evidence that he is harassing you.


How do I do that do a screen print or something?
And should I make it clear to him that neither of us witnesed anything happen? He apparently just called the vet again and he said the first person told him no to calling and when he just called that they said yes... I want to block him (not sure how to do that either) and want to print this all out for my proof.


----------



## Jax08

A print screen would do as well. As long as it has the date on it.


----------



## mandiah89

Jax08 said:


> A print screen would do as well. As long as it has the date on it.


So before I block him should I just send one message saying something along the lines of... 

Neither of us witnessed what happened and if this was intentional we would have been out there breaking up a dog fight, but nothing of the like occurred and we both have no idea how or when it happened? To just cover that neither of us seen what happened to have that in the documentation?


----------



## Jax08

I don't know what to say to him. At this point, I would call the police and get some input. This is all crazy.


----------



## vickip9

mandiah89 said:


> How do I do that do a screen print or something?
> And should I make it clear to him that neither of us witnesed anything happen? He apparently just called the vet again and he said the first person told him no to calling and when he just called that they said yes... I want to block him (not sure how to do that either) and want to print this all out for my proof.



If you want to send him one last message, it should just be a recap. And then you can print that off for your records. For example: "You invited me to come to your house on (insert date). It was after that date you noticed a lesion on your dog's skin, however, neither of us witnessed how that lesion came to be. There was not any negative interactions between our dogs and there was not any growling, barking, or other noises to indicate that something had happened. Neither of us know where the lesion came from. You are refusing to give me your vet's contact information so I cannot get details regarding the nature of the lesion nor the treatment that was given, and there is no proof that my dog caused the lesion. I will not be paying you any money and I am ending all contact from this point forward and I ask that you not contact me again. I have also contacted Animal Control and the Police to report this incident. Please do not contact me any further." 

From there, you can block him.. Go to your Privacy Settings. From there, there is an option for blocking. You'll have to type his name into the search bar and then once it returns his profile, you can block him. 

And to do a screen print, you go to the window you want to print and then on your keyboard, hit Ctrl & "Print Screen" simultaneously. Then, open up a Word document and paste the image into it. (either use Ctrl & V or you can right click and choose "Paste"). You can adjust the size of the image within the Word doc. Then just print that Word doc with the image of the screenshot.


----------



## Jax08

I like Vicki's response.


----------



## Lucy Dog

Haven't read the whole thread, just skipped through a couple pages, but I wouldn't pay this con a dime. 

If your dog attacked his dog... you pay. If both dogs are playing and one trips and gets hurt, that's just part of dog ownership. Accidents happen. You shouldn't be responsible for a non-attack type accident.

The fact that neither of you witnessed what happened, it definitely wasn't an attack, and no one knows how it even happened... that's not your problem. Put this clown on block and forget he ever existed. I wouldn't even give this guy a second thought.


----------



## JackandMattie

Perfect!!



vickip9 said:


> If you want to send him one last message, it should just be a recap. And then you can print that off for your records. For example: "You invited me to come to your house on (insert date). It was after that date you noticed a lesion on your dog's skin, however, neither of us witnessed how that lesion came to be. There was not any negative interactions between our dogs and there was not any growling, barking, or other noises to indicate that something had happened. Neither of us know where the lesion came from. You are refusing to give me your vet's contact information so I cannot get details regarding the nature of the lesion nor the treatment that was given, and there is no proof that my dog caused the lesion. I will not be paying you any money and I am ending all contact from this point forward and I ask that you not contact me again. I have also contacted Animal Control and the Police to report this incident. Please do not contact me any further."
> 
> From there, you can block him.. Go to your Privacy Settings. From there, there is an option for blocking. You'll have to type his name into the search bar and then once it returns his profile, you can block him.
> 
> And to do a screen print, you go to the window you want to print and then on your keyboard, hit Ctrl & "Print Screen" simultaneously. Then, open up a Word document and paste the image into it. (either use Ctrl & V or you can right click and choose "Paste"). You can adjust the size of the image within the Word doc. Then just print that Word doc with the image of the screenshot.


----------



## Msmaria

mandiah89 said:


> How do I do that do a screen print or something?
> And should I make it clear to him that neither of us witnesed anything happen? He apparently just called the vet again and he said the first person told him no to calling and when he just called that they said yes... I want to block him (not sure how to do that either) and want to print this all out for my proof.



Even though i agree with everyone that you should stop contact with this person, I still feel there should be somewhere in communication what happened in regards to him inviting you over and no one saw how his dog was injured. Then I would print and stop communicating with him. 
Call the police to let them know. Unfortunately its the person that files the complaint first that usually gets the benefit of the doubt and you dont want it to be him. i wouldnt give him your address to contact via mail. Thank goodness you went to his house and he doesnt know where you live.


----------



## Ares God Of War

Also make sure if the vet does call you its a valid number. Anyone can call you and say they work at so and so's vet. He can call the vet and let them release the info over to you, and you can then call them. It just sounds fishy to me. but ya I would block him and avoid him.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## GSDolch

said perfectly, its along the lines of what I was thinking.

This screams scam to me, hopefully if you tell him you've already contacted the police and AC, he wont try to take it any further. Be careful.





vickip9 said:


> If you want to send him one last message, it should just be a recap. And then you can print that off for your records. For example: "You invited me to come to your house on (insert date). It was after that date you noticed a lesion on your dog's skin, however, neither of us witnessed how that lesion came to be. There was not any negative interactions between our dogs and there was not any growling, barking, or other noises to indicate that something had happened. Neither of us know where the lesion came from. You are refusing to give me your vet's contact information so I cannot get details regarding the nature of the lesion nor the treatment that was given, and there is no proof that my dog caused the lesion. I will not be paying you any money and I am ending all contact from this point forward and I ask that you not contact me again. I have also contacted Animal Control and the Police to report this incident. Please do not contact me any further."
> 
> From there, you can block him.. Go to your Privacy Settings. From there, there is an option for blocking. You'll have to type his name into the search bar and then once it returns his profile, you can block him.
> 
> And to do a screen print, you go to the window you want to print and then on your keyboard, hit Ctrl & "Print Screen" simultaneously. Then, open up a Word document and paste the image into it. (either use Ctrl & V or you can right click and choose "Paste"). You can adjust the size of the image within the Word doc. Then just print that Word doc with the image of the screenshot.


----------



## Jax08

Does this guy have your phone number?!!


----------



## paulag1955

Jax08 said:


> Does this guy have your phone number?!!


Oh, geez...I hope not!


----------



## 3GSD92_00_12

If he has her phone number, she can block his number or never answer the phone and let her voicemail get it and then she can have recordings of him calling her non-stop to the point of harassment, which can then be used as more evidence against him.
This is response to paulag1955 and jax08's threads.
Mandiah, it looks like you are already getting a bunch of help for this situation. I hope everything starts going in your favor really soon.


----------



## skier16

tell him to kick rocks. legally he cant do anything since neither of you saw what happened and he cant prove anything. The claim that the wound was definitely aggressive is TOTAL BS. even if he tried its not worth it when the bill was only 150 or whatever. sever ties and dont worry about it. 

If my dog definitively caused damage to another I would cover all costs but this is too shady and the guy is coming off in a manner which I wouldnt tolerate. block and forget.


----------



## fuzzybunny

When I paid half my friend's bill I called her vet clinic and they had no issue discussing it with me, allowing me to make payment, and sent me the bill. All she had to do was give them her permission. This guy wants you to give him money and doesn't want to provide you with any information or proof. That's no how things work.


----------



## Roemly's Mama

jafo220 said:


> Sent from Petguide.com Free App
> 
> Or this guy is just like the OP and doesn't have the funds to treat his dog. In the end, if the laws he stated are legit, then the OP by law has the responsability to pay for damages. Either way I'm trying to look past the cost and am *thinking of the posibilities of what could happen to the OP's GSD. It may be looked on as a "mean dog". What ever it takes to get away from this guy will only benefit the GSD.* From his replys, it sounds to me like he would file a complaint if the bill is not paid in full. If he decides to go to court then it's out of your control and you should find plenty of witnesses for your side to show your dog is not mean, but it was all a misshap. But thats up to a lawyer to figure out whats necessary.


but that is an assumption that this will go away quietly if the bill is paid. Also a paid bill might actually count as proof that the GSD IS a mean dog. There is not telling what this yahoo might do. He might file a complaint anyway or start asking for more money holding this over the OP's head. No simple solution really. I don't like to think people are terrible but this just sounds too fishy.

Well after reading thru sounds like it is settled....scam busted.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I like Vicki's response to..and if the guy keeps bothering you, tell him you will be calling the cops and do it..


----------



## Loneforce

I think you should let the police know anyways. Better safe then sorry.


----------



## mandiah89

Well I was on the phone with the AC officer for about total 3 hours today an hour this afternoon and then almost 2 hours this evening... She says that she can tell I love my dog very much and that I have been in constant contact with her all day trying to get on top of this issue and has no doubts at all my dog did anything, she told me to not pay a dime, if he calls AC it wont do him any good but the last message I have received he was threatening to report it to them but she said he would tell him he was wasting her time.. She also mentioned that his name sounded very familiar and she thinks she has dealt with him before and is going to check her records tonight... She also said that the only other thing he could do would be to small claims court and fight me for the money but she told me she would go to court to fight in my favor. I told her I would be more than willing to bring her to the facility there and have Penny temperament tested because I know she is not aggressive and she said that wouldn't be necessary. 

Anyway she told me to not block him on facebook let him send as many messages as he wants and just stay off it until I speak to the vet and if he keeps sending non stop messages to call the RCMP for harassment. I am still waiting for the vet to call me AC officer told me to give them till tomorrow morning by 9:30 if they dont call to call them. 

I really appreciate the support and kind words, Ive just decided to let it be... let him come after me, the AC officer assured me that even if he calls AC my dog will be fine that nothing is going to happen to her so Im not afraid of that and Im near certain that if he took me to small claims that he would lose due to witnesses I have and the preemptive actions I took to cover myself, and of course all the things this guy was saying is bull he has no proof and no evidence.


----------



## fuzzybunny

I agree that I don't think he has a leg to stand on if he tries to pursue it. I'm very interested to hear what the AC officer has to say once she checks her records for his name. Glad she is in your corner.


----------



## jafo220

mandiah89 said:


> Well I was on the phone with the AC officer for about total 3 hours today an hour this afternoon and then almost 2 hours this evening... She says that she can tell I love my dog very much and that I have been in constant contact with her all day trying to get on top of this issue and has no doubts at all my dog did anything, she told me to not pay a dime, if he calls AC it wont do him any good but the last message I have received he was threatening to report it to them but she said he would tell him he was wasting her time.. She also mentioned that his name sounded very familiar and she thinks she has dealt with him before and is going to check her records tonight... She also said that the only other thing he could do would be to small claims court and fight me for the money but she told me she would go to court to fight in my favor. I told her I would be more than willing to bring her to the facility there and have Penny temperament tested because I know she is not aggressive and she said that wouldn't be necessary.
> 
> Anyway she told me to not block him on facebook let him send as many messages as he wants and just stay off it until I speak to the vet and if he keeps sending non stop messages to call the RCMP for harassment. I am still waiting for the vet to call me AC officer told me to give them till tomorrow morning by 9:30 if they dont call to call them.
> 
> I really appreciate the support and kind words, Ive just decided to let it be... let him come after me, the AC officer assured me that even if he calls AC my dog will be fine that nothing is going to happen to her so Im not afraid of that and Im near certain that if he took me to small claims that he would lose due to witnesses I have and the preemptive actions I took to cover myself, and of course all the things this guy was saying is bull he has no proof and no evidence.




Sent from Petguide.com Free App

Well thats good news. I hope it works out for you. I hate to see the dog get stuck in the middle of this stuff. Thats my primary concern as I'm sure it was yours also.


----------



## marbury

I'd personally not block him. Cutting off all contact puts you in a really negative light. The tone of your dialogue thus far has been pleasant. Manipulative, yes, but pleasant. I'd say just ignore his unrelated responses to your questions or only reply with repeated (polite) requests for the vet's contact information or repeated (polite) requests to meet WITH the vet with both of you present.

I believe the owner is mistaken or deliberately manipulating the reality of how his pet got the injury. Most likely the dog slid on the ground while tussling, or it was completely unrelated. It sounds in no way like a bite case, and that would be immediately evident to any vet on presentation. The vet is key. It is very much true that some practices will not release patient information to laypeople; involve AC to the extent that it forces records from the vet if you have to. If you do manage to get contact with the vet and they refuse to release patient information, explain that you are entering into a potential court case and that the owner communicated that they were willing to share, at the very least, the bill. Request that they contact the owner to verify that the release of information is OK and leave your information for them. If their reception staff is decent they should bustle forth and do their best! That might be enough to scare off your would-be con artist.

Personally, I can't imagine how a surface lesion would cost $130 in treatment if the dog was not sedated and he wasn't an emergency. Either the office visit costs in your area are astronomical or he's just milking it. I'd expect a $35 exam cost, maybe $20 worth of topical ointment, and if they're paranoid $30 in broad spectrum antibiotics for a few days. If he went high-end maybe $60 in antibiotics for a large dog. In the type of injury you described there would be no need for stitches, staples, penrose tubing, or any surgical intervention to speak of.

I'd be very interested to know if he's pulled this stunt before. It might well be that he has a fat file sitting in a drawer with AC of scams he's tried on other folks.


----------



## Capone22

Wow. I'm speechless. I am so sort your going through this. Please keep us updated!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## KSdogowner

I am glad you contacted AC and are covering your bases. Hopefully, this person will just quit and leave you in peace. It definitely sounds fishy.


----------



## GatorBytes

Could be a flippen hot spot...ask for history.

You are not going to need a lawyer, this is minor abrasion, if a kid skinned his knee at the playground when wrestling with another kid - it would be looked upon as "oh, that's kids for you"

Breath


----------



## Msmaria

I'm so glad you got someone from AC to help you and that things look very good . I hope you feel better and are able to relax now. I can't imagine having to deal with this person all day. At the very least his information is now with AC and hopefully he doesn't do this again with someone else. It's obvious to anyone you love Penny very much and are a good momma .


----------



## fuzzybunny

marbury said:


> Personally, I can't imagine how a surface lesion would cost $130 in treatment if the dog was not sedated and he wasn't an emergency. Either the office visit costs in your area are astronomical or he's just milking it. I'd expect a $35 exam cost, maybe $20 worth of topical ointment, and if they're paranoid $30 in broad spectrum antibiotics for a few days. If he went high-end maybe $60 in antibiotics for a large dog. In the type of injury you described there would be no need for stitches, staples, penrose tubing, or any surgical intervention to speak of.


She's in Canada like myself so I'm not surprised. Just to see a vet is about $70 for me and that's just a basic 5 minute wellness exam. Add ointment or something on top of that and there's your $130. It's crazy.


----------



## mandiah89

Hi all,

He told me his dog required stitches for the wound it wasn't just a lesion or anything like that I guess.. its 7:30am I was advised to wait till 9am to hear from the vets and if I dont to give them a call... The only reason I am fighting this is because 1. if I pay this guy to cover HIS dogs vet bill it might be looked at as an omission of guilt and I do not believe Penny or I are to blame 2. The only reason I offered to even pay half is because I do have integrity and I thought it might be the honorable thing to do but he didn't want half he wanted the whole thing so I don't think so now he gets nothing. And 3. This wasn't a case of my dog was loose and I was trying to catch her and she ran into his backyard and attacked his dog, this wasn't a case of both of us walking down the street when we pass each other my dog attacked... This is a case of one person inviting the other over to let the dogs play, no one witnesses what happened and at the of the play we noticed the wound, if my dog attacked then we would have known about it it would have been obvious but there were no heckles up no teeth barring no growling no snapping no aggressive behavior at all, the Dobe. did not make any noise indicating he was injured and if my dog "meant business" (this guy told me the vet said) then it would have been a lot worse there would have been puncture wounds not just this dollar sized wound that looked nothing remotely like a puncture. So I offered him half in my good nature that would have been accompanied by an agreement stating that in paying half I was in no way admitting guild upon myself or my dog and that hereinafter that no legal, monetary or any other form of complaint shall be made in this matter ect... 

Anyway Im still waiting to hear from the vet and I will ask him again for a picture of the wound but it definitely was no puncture, and I still find it hard to believe that if a wound was that bad it needed stitches how could there have been little to no blood at all...


----------



## Sunflowers

Well, you said that it was a dollar size wound, so I think a chunk of skin was taken out. It needed stitches to pull the edges of the skin together and close it up.

The thing is, how do you know that Penny didn't take a chunk out of the Dobe because the Dobe was being too aggressive?

The whole scenario is ridiculous. You invite an unknown dog to play, you assume the risks. At least that's what a reasonable person would think. This guy is just trying to get you to pay for something he should be paying for.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I'm so glad the AC is on your side and has given you good advise..Follow it! 

The guy sounds like such a jerk, stick to your decision now..It will be interesting to hear what the vet has to say.

keep us updated..


----------



## mandiah89

I just got off the phone with the vet... There was a 4cm L shaped wound full thickness of the skin, the dog was given a local anesthetic and was given stitches to close the wound and was given an antibiotic (ammoxocillian {sp?}. I they said the the owner said it was a "bite wound" but the vet said there is NO WAY TO TELL if in fact it was a bite or not, he very well could have caught on something sharp like glass there is no way to tell it was an actual "bite"...


----------



## Shade

mandiah89 said:


> I just got off the phone with the vet... There was a 4cm L shaped wound full thickness of the skin, the dog was given a local anesthetic and was given stitches to close the wound and was given an antibiotic (ammoxocillian {sp?}. I they said the the owner said it was a "bite wound" but the vet said there is NO WAY TO TELL if in fact it was a bite or not, he very well could have caught on something sharp like glass there is no way to tell it was an actual "bite"...


That's great, request the vet either give you the notes from the exam or something in writing saying exactly that if you haven't already!


----------



## paulag1955

That doesn't even sound like the same wound that you saw. And you know now that this person has lied to you about at least one thing.


----------



## Lilie

As bad as this entire thing has been for you, it's really good that it happened. Sounds like this person is the type of person who walks into your home and slips on the floor. You'll spend years paying their medical bills. 

I'd just consider this a close call, wash your hands of them and count your blessings.


----------



## Walperstyle

Told you! No proof, no pay! ...I still stand behind the dogs ability to heal its own wounds. I remember seeing a dog tear open an old wound to re-set the skin down because fur and dirt got in it. Dogs are very capable of taking care of themselves. Something the owners of that Doberman don't seem to understand. I would have called the bluff early on, but hey, whatever makes you happy. 



mandiah89 said:


> I just got off the phone with the vet... There was a 4cm L shaped wound full thickness of the skin, the dog was given a local anesthetic and was given stitches to close the wound and was given an antibiotic (ammoxocillian {sp?}. I they said the the owner said it was a "bite wound" but the vet said there is NO WAY TO TELL if in fact it was a bite or not, he very well could have caught on something sharp like glass there is no way to tell it was an actual "bite"...


----------



## fuzzybunny

Now that you've decided you're not paying anything (which I agree with), have you heard back from the owner of the Dobe and if so, how has he responded to the fact that you are not paying?


----------



## Syaoransbear

Wow, that guy is such a liar for saying the vet said your dog "meant business"(yeah right, if a german shepherd meant business the dog would be dead.) but then when the vet talked to you the vet couldn't even tell if the wound was from a bite or not.


----------



## JakodaCD OA

It sounds like there is more info for YOUR side..

Yep, it's time to tell the guy , exactly what his own vet said, therefore , you will not be paying the bill..and then I'd say, end of story If he has a problem with that, tell him to contact AC..


----------



## marbury

Good sleuthing! I'd be shocked if anybody chose this guys' side over yours. Keep us updated!


----------



## mandiah89

Hi everyone,

Well he is still harassing me sending me non stop messages on facebook still threatening to take me to small claims court and that he had called AC. I have a letter from his vet stating that even though he claimed it was a dog bite there is no way to tell for certain that that is what caused the injury... I spoke to my vet to get a letter from them stating that they have never seen any aggressive behavior but they said that they don't provide anything like that (they would rather not get involved in any legal matters which is fine but she told me over the phone that it is ridiculous because she has never seen any such behavior).

I have also spoken to our (Penny's and my) trainer told her the situation and asked her if she has ever seen any aggressive or viciousness from Penny and here is what she wrote to me she will be writing a letter as well... 

"She seemed to be a typical little German Shepherd puppy to me. Nothing really "Aggressive" just the rough play that they all do. Any dog can get hurt in playing very easily, especially a thin skinned/coated Doberman. It wouldn't have to be an "attack" to give them a cut. I can write that she came through my class and was social with the other dogs, becasue she was. If anything, she could be quite submissive and roll over on her back and give it up to dogs she wasn't sure of."

So even my trainer (we did basic and advance OB as well as some SAR training) knows that Penny is a good well mannered dog that is not aggressive or mean. 

So I was finally able to get some sleep last night the last few nights my brain has not shut off I just kept playing everything in my mind over and over and over and coming up with arguments in my head lol... But Im well rested today I feel great, Penny is being the good little puppy she is (minus her deciding that she would play with a roll of toilet paper and got that all over the house lol)...

Even with all this stress we have still managed to be a great team and have lots of fun, decided to add some pictures Ive taken the last 3 days  Enjoy ( I will also mention that normally I do not have her on leash when walking through the woods or playing in the backyard or even sitting on the deck but until I have this issue fully resolved Penny will be staying on leash and I have upped her training to make sure she is on her A game with obedience)


----------



## fuzzybunny

I think if he was going to do something he would have done it by now. I'm really sorry this happened to you. I hope it all ends soon. That would stress me out beyond belief. Very nice pics of Penny btw


----------



## gsdraven

Block him on Facebook so he can't message you anymore. I agree with fuzzybunny, if he were going to report something he would have. He's just trying to bully you.


----------



## Courtney

mandiah89, enough. You are inviting havoc into your life with this guy. Get rid of the nonsense. Untangle yourself from this and move on.


----------



## arycrest

Courtney said:


> mandiah89, enough. You are inviting havoc into your life with this guy. Get rid of the nonsense. Untangle yourself from this and move on.


Excellent advice ... if he wants to sue you duke it out in court ... unburden yourself and block him from FB, email, twitter, etc.

GOOD LUCK!!!


----------



## Angelina03

Sorry this has happened. I agree that this is over and you need to move on. It has caused you more than enough stress and negativity. Now that you now where you stand and your rights, there is no need to keep worrying. Close it. End it. Btw- Penny is adorable. 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Mrs.K

Guys, honestly, in a country where a dog has lost his life for less, I wouldn't play this out. I would not take the risk of losing my dog over a 130 dollars. 

Chances are, the owner has no idea that his dog has a thin skin and that this could happen from a genetic fault of his dog. Just pay it. I've paid a bill for a basset hound who continuously harassed Nala and Nala got fed up, corrected the puppy and the pup ended up with a gash. No one saw what happened but I paid up, simply because I know, that I still was at fault. If it had been 500+ dollar I'd understand not paying, but with a 130 bucks I'd pay, and book it under LESSON LEARNED!


*PS: now that I read it all, I agree, do not pay the bill. LMAO*


----------



## Jax08

gsdraven said:


> Block him on Facebook so he can't message you anymore. I agree with fuzzybunny, if he were going to report something he would have. He's just trying to bully you.





Courtney said:


> mandiah89, enough. You are inviting havoc into your life with this guy. Get rid of the nonsense. Untangle yourself from this and move on.



This ^^^^

You have letters from the appropriate people, I might get some from the people whose dogs you normally allow her to play with to add to that.

Make sure you print, copy or forward all his messages somewhere (once you block him you will lose all of them)

Have you called the police to report this harassment?


----------



## Syaoransbear

Mrs.K said:


> Guys, honestly, in a country where a dog has lost his life for less, I wouldn't play this out. I would not take the risk of losing my dog over a 130 dollars.


I've definitely never heard of any dog being euthanized for biting another dog here in Canada :crazy:. My friend's rottweiler even bit a person and it was just put on the dangerous dog list and has to be muzzled when in public.


----------



## Jax08

It does happen here in the States. It depends on the situation, the severity and the state laws. Michigan is more strict than PA.


----------



## Syaoransbear

Jax08 said:


> It does happen here in the States. It depends on the situation, the severity and the state laws. Michigan is more strict than PA.


The OP is in Canada too, so I thought Mrs. K meant that sort of thing is common in Canada.


----------



## mandiah89

Please do not be worried about Penny.. I was already assured by AC that they wont even do anything as there is no proof.. I called the AC officer today and she said that he hadn't called to report it (even though he said he did)... She has told me many times that even if he does call the most that will ever happen is Penny would be put on a "investigated dangerous dog list" which means as long as there are no other incidences within 6 months her "record" will be erased.


----------



## mandiah89

Syaoransbear said:


> The OP is in Canada too, so I thought Mrs. K meant that sort of thing is common in Canada.


I am in Canada, and its not very common to just have a dog PTS here in Canada for such situations


----------



## Blitzkrieg1

Wow no offence but theres a sucker born every minute...
A) It doesnt matter what he claims happened, it matters what you can prove, a patch of missing skin proves nothing. Regardless of if the dogs were playing or not.

B) Play dates are a foolish notion for dogs. They do not need to socialize with strange dogs, they are not children. 

Bottom line he gets no money, he is entitled to NO money and he can chalk this up as the cost to being dumb enough to let his dog have a "play date" with strangers dog.


----------



## mandiah89

OK before everyone jumps on me and tells me to let this go, this is just an update, I will also mention I am NOT stressed out or worried but I wanted to give an update on the situation...

I got a call from the AC officer about half hour ago, the guy had sent her an email and she wanted to call me and let me know, that she herself got the vet report and he had sent her a picture and she is NOT pursuing any action as there is no medical proof that my dog bite his and the fact that I was the first to speak with her and be in constant contact with her helps the matter, so Penny WILL NOT be labeled "dangerous or vicious". She sent him a message back that there is no other action being taken.


----------



## Shade

I'm glad you contacted the AC officer and got your side of the story in first. I hope that will be the last of it. :fingerscrossed: I can't believe he waited so long before contacting them, he looks incompetent at every angle while you covered all the bases the same day!


----------



## Capone22

What a crazy psycho. So glad you took the steps young did! 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Ares God Of War

Good!!!! Thanks for updating. Hes crazy. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Jax08

He's a tool


----------



## blackshep

Jax08 said:


> He's a tool


Agreed!


----------



## Shade

Jax08 said:


> He's a tool


And obviously not the sharpest in the shed either  lol


----------



## mandiah89

Well I just got a message from this fool and he said " Alright Ill see you in court" (I have not messaged him in days since he told me he was going to take it to small claims for $130) so Im guessing he is even more ticked that AC is not on his side and are not doing anything, so I am going to message him back telling him if he wants to take it to court he can go right ahead because with my testimony, the AC officers testimony, his vets testimony (which states there is no way to tell if it was a bite that it could have happened by something sharp ect.) and all of my character witnesses stating they have never seen anything or experience any aggressive behavior with Penny, that he will not win and will be wasting his money. This guy has some major issues he needs to get a grip and take responsibility for his own dog.


----------



## Jax08

YOU DO NOT MESSAGE HIM ANYTHING BACK AT THIS POINT!!

Anything you respond he can use. Once they threaten legal action, all correspondence stops


----------



## Lauri & The Gang

Seriously - I would *STOP *responding to him. You are just egging him on.


----------



## mandiah89

Jax08 said:


> YOU DO NOT MESSAGE HIM ANYTHING BACK AT THIS POINT!!
> 
> Anything you respond he can use. Once they threaten legal action, all correspondence stops


Oh didnt think about that... So I just sit back and wait to get served I guess.


----------



## mandiah89

And I havent responded to him since thursday even though he has sent me many messages...


----------



## mandiah89

Oh he just messaged me again stating "I will let you know the date of court" What? Umm no someone comes to my house and "serves" me with court papers what is this guy smoking?


----------



## Jax08

no response. You just keep saving his messages but do not respond. He's a tool. You make sure you save all those messages...especially the one that talks about the vet claiming it was a vicious attack.


----------



## Shade

mandiah89 said:


> Oh didnt think about that... So I just sit back and wait to get served I guess.


Write down every little detail and gather all the evidence into one place including date, time, and contact information from the calls you made along with any documentation that's been provided, stash it somewhere safe and then sit back and relax. Don't answer any more correspondence from the lunatic and don't worry. 

*IF* he actually does take you to court, then take that folder with all the information and go there with your head held high. Provide all the evidence and then let it go from there. Be clear, concise, and most of all really believe in what you're saying. You've done all you can and leave it at that.


----------



## Ares God Of War

You may not even get served.. he is probably just trying to scare you.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## blackshep

I bet he's trying to scare you into paying his vet bill. What a nightmare.

I agree SAVE EVERYTHING and do not correspond with him. What an idiot he is! He should get a horse. They sure can teach you the meaning of 'poop/vet bills happen'. It's to be expected when animals play together.

Cripes my dog was playing all by herself and smoked her head on the coffee table and got a cut above her eye. It happens.


----------



## belladonnalily

I agree with everyone else. DO NOT respond. I worked in the courts and the best response is no response. The "I will let you know the date" is an almost certain indicator that he is blowing smoke up your rear. If he had taken any steps at all towards taking you to court, he'd already know that informing you of the court date isn't his job. 

Ignore him. Better yet, block him now. 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Shade

belladonnalily said:


> Ignore him. Better yet, block him now.


I absolutely agree with the ignoring, but the blocking I would consider not doing right away. Print off every single message he sends you and put it in the file, it'll be good to have IF the case ever does go to court. 

A written word is worth a thousand spoken in the court of law, and showing how nutty this person could be helpful for your case

Now after saying that, if three months down the road still nothing has popped up I would certainly block all contact information. There's no reason to live your life being harassed, but if you can put up with it for a little it could be useful for sure.


----------



## belladonnalily

Shade, possibly, but on the really remote chance the guy is serious, I believe she'd need cell phone company records, not just printed copies as those can be manufactured easily. I guess I wouldn't want to keep being harrassed, so I would consider some sort of legal action against him for harrassment. Suing you is one thing. Endless harrassment is quite anothet.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Jax08

Have you at any point told him to stop contacting you? No more messages? No more phone calls? If so, do you have it in a dated message?


----------



## Shade

belladonnalily said:


> Shade, possibly, but on the really remote chance the guy is serious, I believe she'd need cell phone company records, not just printed copies as those can be manufactured easily. I guess I wouldn't want to keep being harrassed, so I would consider some sort of legal action against him for harrassment. Suing you is one thing. Endless harrassment is quite anothet.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Absolutely. My point is just having written records showing his personality will be much more valuable then heresay of "this guy is looney! He did this, this, and this..." but without much proof. It's not critical however, she already has enough evidence, that would just be icing on the cake or more appropriately nails in the coffin.

You can certainly look into filing a harrassment complaint against him for sure, I would only put up with it for a short time then completely block all communication. 

This of course is just my opinion and what I would do, I'm not advising the OP in any way, just showing options


----------



## JakodaCD OA

I'm so glad AC is backing you, as well as this jerks vet.

I'm in agreement, HE doesn't let you know when court is, they would serve you papers.

I would keep ignoring him, BUT keep copies of all messages he makes to you. 

If he gets any more 'harrassing' than he already is, I'd take copies of all his messages to the cops..


----------



## Anubis_Star

JakodaCD said:


> I would however, want to know why the dog needs surgery?????? and I would want the vets name & number..
> 
> I would also say, YOU invited ME over, the dogs were playing, again, don't even know if Penny did anything....
> 
> Tell him to email you pictures, I'd love to see what this 'wound' looks like.


Almost every laceration requires "surgery". Ie we sedate the dog but usually not full anesthesia, clip fur from around the wound, flush and clean it, place a drain if there's a decent pocket under the skin, and suture it closed

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## marbury

Wow, I think it's because the clinic I work at had a large-animal vet at its head, but we don't usually do full sedation on clip-and-clean with suture unless the dog is unruly. Local is usually it for our patients. And if it is stapled, not even local. How different vets can be!


----------



## Jax08

It probably depends on the dog and how well the vet knows them. They did a sedation on Sierra for a couple of sutures. She was fully conscious, just couldn't move. I'll never do that again. Just knock her out. she was terrified.

Jax, they've shaved and poked around while she laid on the floor next to me. They probably could have given her a local and stitched her up but they said they don't usually do that for dog bites and hers was already infected.


----------



## Anubis_Star

marbury said:


> Wow, I think it's because the clinic I work at had a large-animal vet at its head, but we don't usually do full sedation on clip-and-clean with suture unless the dog is unruly. Local is usually it for our patients. And if it is stapled, not even local. How different vets can be!


We usually do something like dexdomitor, midazolam, or hydromorphone. The animal is "awake" but sedate enough that they are basically unresponsive. And all those medications off pain relief as well so the procedure is very humane for them

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## Darth_Ariel

I'm glad you went the route to get everything settled before he could make up a story, not to mention getting the honest reports from people and not his one-sided version with embellishment. 

Reading through all of the pages and your conversation with him I noticed he does the "butter you up" and "look what I did for you" approach with you, which is what sets off all sorts of red flags for me. Any time someone throws out the "You're a nice person" among other compliments it's more or less saying "You're a smart girl, do the 'right' thing". Not to mention he throws out that he's not mad at you, he's really concerned for your dog even, and he did his best to hold the dog still so that she wouldn't have to stay over night and rack up more costs. More or less it's him trying to convince you that he's a good guy. 

Personally, I would state that you no longer wish to have contact with him. You don't want to instigate and feed into his replies, but then you are making it clear. I'd say something to the tune of "This matter is settled with all appropriate parties, how you decide to handle your allegations are your business and said appropriate parties will decide how to handle this matter and will contact me directly. I do not wish to have any further contact with you on this or any matter and if your relentless harassment continues, I will be forced to take it up with police". That way you've covered your bases, you're telling him you don't want contact, you're giving him that warning. Screen shot it, print it and if he answers again make sure you get it being after you telling him not to contact you again and take it to the authorities.


----------



## stmcfred

This guy is crazy! 

Are there any updates? Did you ever hear from him again?


----------



## mandiah89

stmcfred said:


> This guy is crazy!
> 
> Are there any updates? Did you ever hear from him again?


No I have not heard from him since he told me he would message me with the time and date of court. Of course I have not gotten served with court papers either. I think he has dropped it which for him, is the right course of action as I believe he knows he would lose in court. So thank goodness that madness is over.


----------



## stmcfred

That's awesome! He sounded like a complete nut job and a huge scammer. Unfortunately wonder if he was able to scam anyone else? So sad people are like this these days. 

My daughter fell on my sisters puppy one day and hurt it's leg. I took it to my vet and paid for the entire bill ($400). Something like that I can see paying for but certainly NOT in your case. I'm so glad you didn't waste any of your money and he left you alone!


----------

