# Witch one



## Talink3346 (Oct 17, 2019)

Would u pick and why based off the pictures


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Cute pictures. 

First of all, picking which puppy you want to spend the next 10-14 years with, looks are the LAST consideration. Matching the temperament of the puppy to your needs is what you need to do, and the little sausages up there are not yet ready to let you know who's who. Keep watching the litter, visit several times between weeks 4 and 8, and listen to what the breeder says about each puppy. 

At the end of the day, your final decision should rely heavily on what the breeder says, if you trust them. If you don't trust them, find another breeder. If you are the breeder, then, enjoy your babies and watch who they become, and wait until they are about 7 weeks or so to make your final decisions for ALL of your puppies. 

Good luck.


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

Personally I would NEVER choose any puppy based on a picture! Good luck with that!


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## John T24 (Oct 19, 2019)

Talink3346 said:


> Would u pick and why based off the pictures



I like them all.... >


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Even as the pups get older, photos are tricky. If the pup blinks at the "wrong time" it can look sleepy but in reality be a fire ball! All things being equal (and they never are) I like a few red highlights on my dogs. I think over all you'll find out that we consider behavior and health over color and coat. The pup has to be a good match for your lifestyle first and foremost.


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## Talink3346 (Oct 17, 2019)

They were born oct 4th im going to put a deposit down thursday the 24th , there all females. Not papered witch is fine just wanting a bestfriend


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Talink3346 said:


> They were born oct 4th im going to put a deposit down thursday the 24th , there all females. Not papered witch is fine just wanting a bestfriend


Well, there is more that you can do. 

You can educate yourself on the breed itself, what it is bred for, what it is used for, what it's needs are, what ailments are common to it. 

You can educate yourself on the various lines. Looks to be some sables in that picture, but without papers, German showlines allow for sables, but they are generally black and brown dogs (mostly red pigment). American lines have some sables. Working lines have sables. Just because the puppy's ancestor was a police dog (this is often something fools say to get people to buy their puppies without papers), or if the ancestors have IOP or SchH titles does not mean the lines are working lines. 

Lines are lines, and the various lines in general can give you an idea of the temperament and better tune you into what kind of owner you will need to be for your dog. For example, no qualms putting a German show line with an aging, single owner. But for a working line puppy, that owner would have to convince me that they know what they are doing and what they are getting themselves into. 

I am not saying that working line puppies are less than show line. They are different. They can be for different sorts of people. Too many people are wow'd by what police dogs can do and want the "real thing." But they have no desire to get off the couch and give their "real thing" the outlet that a strong working line dog deserves. Show line dogs tend to be more forgiving in that area. 

And each litter has strong personalities, middle of the road personalities, and weaker personalities. You might think getting the dog with the weaker personality would be fine for someone who doesn't want to hike up and down mountains several times a week. And you would be wrong again. A dog with a weaker personality can be the best dog in the world for the right person, but they need to be trained, socialized, managed, and led with understanding and deliberation to bring out the best confidence that they can produce and to be safe with strangers. Without that, these are the ones that are most likely to bite your non-offensive visitor. 

Every puppy born, papers or no papers, need homes. But why do you need to go this route, and are you at the right place to go this route. Wouldn't it be better to pick a puppy from lines, where you at least have an idea what you are getting? If it is your first German Shepherd, I would pass on this litter and go with a better known quantity. 

The thing about no papers is in my next post on this thread.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The thing about no papers is this: It costs just as much to produce a puppy with papers as it does to produce one without papers. 

Ok, not quite true. You have to start out with dogs with papers. People breeding German Shepherds should not only know their dogs, but they should know who the dogs are behind their dogs. How else can you know that the breeding in question is not a brother bred to a sister, or a father bred to a daughter? That is the end game, but the better breeders want to know the dogs behind their dogs so that they can try to eliminate heritable traits that are undesirable and produce heritable traits that are desirable. They want to understand who the dogs are and what they bring to the table in the puppies they are producing. Without papers, you simply do not know who is behind your dogs. And that can mean a lot in the way of temperament.

Temperament is EVERYTHING to a companion dog. Everything. Yes, yes, we should be all trying to produce good temperament and good health. It should be a given. And then we can look at what the siblings and sire and dam can actually do, and how they look, and what colors they are. But if you love your dog, than how they look when they reach maturity will not matter, the size of them will be right, the color they are will be good. If you love your dog, you will put up with allergies, joint problems, get a baily chair for MegE, or put enzymes on the food for EPI, and even shell out 2-10 grand for a bloat, blockage, or hip surgery. But if the dog bites the baby it should be put down. If the dog bites a neighbor, then your home-owner's insurance might make that become necessary. If the dog shakes and trembles and bites at itself whenever it rains, it's heart-breaking. 

One can have a dog for companionship, that will be a liability and actually raise your blood pressure and be detrimental to your nerves and general aspect. And giving up such a dog almost certainly means it will be put down. 

Papers will not give a dog a good temperament, but without papers, you have a breeder that doesn't care about pedigrees, and temperament IS genetic. 

So, why no papers? Couple of reasons: the breeders do not know enough about the breed to see the need of genetics; the breeders bought dogs to breed with or chose to breed dogs that were sold on a limited registration -- this suggests terrible ethics in the breeder; the breeder has been suspended or banned from the AKC -- this suggests the breeder is either lying on paperwork, or keeping breeding stock in abominable conditions. 

So you have your choice, your breeder is either totally ignorant, completely unethical, or abusive and neglectful. And probably a combination of these. 

We do not buy dogs from pet stores, because no breeder who cares about their puppies will let someone with no knowledge sell their puppies to the first person who comes along with enough open money on their credit card. And we do not buy puppies from pet stores because the breeders that supply pet stores usually have a farm of bitches kept in filthy, deplorable conditions. Yes, yes, the puppies can be harder to house train or ill. But what is more important is that we condemn the bitches and dogs to live with the scum of the earth every time we buy one from these places. 

I understand this isn't a pet store. For someone with plenty of familiarity with the breed, taking a chance on one of these puppies is fine for someone who does not intend to show or breed. Only because they do need a home. Giving a nickel to a breeder who is ignorant, unethical, or abusive/neglective to the extent that the AKC has been made aware, is something most of us do not want to do. 

But for someone who does not know that you can't pick a pup from a picture, well, I think you are setting yourself up. Can it work out? Sure. Can it be a nightmare? Yep.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

If the parents are not health tested, and if I haven’t met the breeder, puppies, and parents in person, then none of them.
As for temperament, you can’t evaluate before 6.5 weeks, anyway.


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## Momto2GSDs (Mar 22, 2012)

T3346
Please listen to the suggestions that these members have given you.


You don't want to end up like the person in this thread: https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-puppy-stuff/758421-help-what-going-my-puppy-4.html


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## Talink3346 (Oct 17, 2019)

Wow ive seen both pictures of the parents. One parent is akc and one is ckc. There both private rescue and if the pup needs medical attention later in life so be it like u are saying. it will get it. I can atleast get her fixed and deffently look into the temperment of the parents as well. i am going to meet the pups thursday and see the parents, hopefully pups have well temperament ,socializing the pup is very important in home and outside of home , im the one who asked for pictures to see them and they asked witch one i liked n i told them . so for the name either padmae off starwars , katanna or sindel off mortal kombat , Is what i am thinking


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## Talink3346 (Oct 17, 2019)

And coat has nothing to do with temperment , then why do actaul breeders reserve the beSt ones for k9 units , these ones are already picked but these two are just left .... The person with the pup that doesnt look like a full gsd there are different types of pups liver tan liver ,panda ,blue ,white black and tan , sable. Could be a panda puppie


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I don't see any where the color is off, but I don't breed sables. Mine are all black and brown dogs. So, if someone familiar with sables at this age thinks coloring is off, they will know more than me. 

Coat has nothing do with temperament. Each litter has a variety of temperaments. I have seen a sable dog that couldn't be used for protection to save her life. And I have seen black and tan dogs that were police dogs. At this point, you are picking a dog without knowing whether that dog will be the best suited temperament for you. 

We're just letting you know that they are much too young to choose by temperament.


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## crittersitter (Mar 31, 2011)

It's impossible to pick which one at this age and a pic. You need to get breeder input as they grow and develop.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Talink3346 said:


> Wow ive seen both pictures of the parents. One parent is akc and one is ckc. There both private rescue and if the pup needs medical attention later in life so be it like u are saying. it will get it. I can atleast get her fixed and deffently look into the temperment of the parents as well. i am going to meet the pups thursday and see the parents, hopefully pups have well temperament ,socializing the pup is very important in home and outside of home , im the one who asked for pictures to see them and they asked witch one i liked n i told them . so for the name either padmae off starwars , katanna or sindel off mortal kombat , Is what i am thinking


Rescued dogs are usually altered so they can’t breed. I would want a lot more information about why they bred this particular pair before buying from this person. If they just got two dogs and let them breed because they own them, that is not a good reason to breed those adults.


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## Frisco19 (Aug 12, 2019)

The one that looks like a "Witch". Sorry pet peeve, especially in the subject.


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