# pedigree help



## jb_pwrstroke (Jul 9, 2007)

What can you tell me about it
Aim z Tammik - German Shepherd Dog


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## Kev (Sep 11, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong: Looks like a WGWL/Czech GSD. So linebred 4-5 on cordon and been told that he brought in good aggression on the field. Grim z ps produced nice dogs that went high in competition. Fero through yoschy sounds great. Those are mainly the dogs I know about now through research. Can't say anything about combination of the parents cause I'm still new to this and learning.

Some of my old threads about the czech lines. My boy's pedigree is similar to the one you posted through czech lines.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/173644-background-knowledge-ancestors.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/173667-czech-line-breeding-question.html


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

I love this pedigree genetically!!! Of course each top has to stand on its own bottom....nevertheless it is a good combination of Czech and West dogs in terms of the compatibility. You have Datsy and Eich, producers of very strong drives and good aggression. Some very good West working females lines undergirding this breeding. Czech linebreeding in Figa and Cordon. With the linebreeding in Figa you have to watch carefully for hips, but OH the nerve and working ability. With Cordon you get strong aggression but with the nerve to back it up. Formosa, Gita, a wealth of strength in some of the females. This pedigree will produce a lot of different degrees of drives in prey, different levels of temperament from calm to slightly sharp, but the nerve to handle the variances and very good workability. Actually the dogs that the linebreedings occur on are known for their workability.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

cliffson1 said:


> I love this pedigree genetically!!! Of course each top has to stand on its own bottom....nevertheless it is a good combination of Czech and West dogs in terms of the compatibility. You have Datsy and Eich, producers of very strong drives and good aggression. Some very good West working females lines undergirding this breeding. Czech linebreeding in Figa and Cordon. With the linebreeding in Figa you have to watch carefully for hips, but OH the nerve and working ability. With Cordon you get strong aggression but with the nerve to back it up. Formosa, Gita, a wealth of strength in some of the females. This pedigree will produce a lot of different degrees of drives in prey, different levels of temperament from calm to slightly sharp, but the nerve to handle the variances and very good workability. Actually the dogs that the linebreedings occur on are known for their workability.


Interesting info about Figa--didn't know that. Figa is behind my 8 month old Czech-bred girl -- Nemain van den Heuvel - German Shepherd Dog

I'm seeing so many pedigrees with Cordon--especially through Ori and Odeta z Danaru--would love to hear your thoughts on them.


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## jb_pwrstroke (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks for opinions and info, i might be keeping a brother to aim.


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Well Christine...smile....As you know Figa's dam is Barinja Cega. This Cega line is where breeding gets complicated and necessitates that you can't just rely on titles and health certs. Barinja was one of six dogs that was in the litter, titled to Sch3, hips certified, and three were national level competitors and one was a world competitor. Bob was probably the greatest producer. The controversy comes from their sire, who was Grischa Scwarzen Milan. I know you know Grischa Christine, but for other he was a dog with a reputation for a higher percent of bad hips and elbows than people would like to see. But oh the working ability he transferred.....wonderful!!! In this case he was bred to a known hip improver,(Gita Salrak,Zvv3) and the results were magic! Now Barinja was bred to Lido Jamex to produce the F litter Cega. Lido was a very strong dog in his own right. His father, Bero, is arguably the best son that Held v Ritterberg ever producer, who in turn producer the immortal Titus z PS. Lido's mother was a grandaughter of Marko vom Cellerland. Lido was a national competitor in his country. The F Litter Cega produced 4 progeny that were Sch 3 and hip certified. All of this is very nice working stock....clear heads, nice drives, good on and off switches. That's why the B and F litters are in so many pedigrees. The concern would be when you linebreed on the B or F litter you also intensify the Grischa blood. 
I did a breeding with the mother being linebred 4-4 on B litter Cega(BoB and Barinja), and 3-3 on F litter Cega (Farug and Figa) and out of 4 pups I got three with good hips and one with hips not in the socket. All of the dogs had excellent temperament.Below is pic of one of the dogs. He is currently a PD with County Sheriff. Great working ability and this dog lives in house with children. So you see why I have to look at linebreeding on the B and F litters carefully....but love to see those dogs in pedigrees,
As for Ori, that O litter was also a very successful breeding. You are breeding Cordon (who many are becoming aware of as a Mink/Grief type producer in the Czech Rep) to Adela Venusina Sopka. Now Adela was sired by Astor vom Waldidyll, who was one of the early DDR dogs (like Gomo, Bero, ) that was brought to Czech Republic to help create a lot of the Border patrol dogs. Dogs with z PS, Policia, z Blatsheko Zamu, often go back to Astor. He was a very influential dog who producer very good strong working dogs. The grandfather of Adela on the dam side is a dog named Cir z Vrtovske. This dog was a "super" dog in work and he produced. Czech people in the know love to see this dog or his sister in a pedigree. Really really high working, great nervebase, and good aggression. The type of dog that could be top sport or top police. This is where some of the strength of the O litter Danaru comes from....hope this helps.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks Cliff!

I am totally smitten with my little Czech girl--I expected fight drive and resilience and drive from her pedigree. What I didn't expect is the high pack drive and high, high intelligence. Her drive is still going up and her hardness is interesting--she's very physically resilient--but she *wants* to be in the right and has a high desire to please, so while she bounces right back from, say, getting stepped on hard, she would only take a very light correction in obedience training to get a desired result. Granted, she's still only 8 months! 

Back to Cordon, what are the hazards and/or benefits of a 5,5-5,5 breeding on him? What would you breed such a dog to or away from (presumably a Cordon-free dog!)? Here's an example: Sumo Von Der Dewhaus - German Shepherd Dog


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## cliffson1 (Sep 2, 2006)

Christine, with Cordon like any other great dog when you get to linebreeding as wide as the example you gave you are venturing into specialization or really emphasizing certain traits. The SL people have done and continue to do this for the preservation of the type they like. In WL I can remember kennels like the Ming kennel that has done some similar type breeding on Mink with good results. Cordon in some ways is similar to Mink. In reality Cordon simplified was and produced exemplary police patrol dog types. He produced many many police dogs in many different countrie besides the Czech Republic. Yeah, I think you would have to go away from Cordon with a dog bred like that....but you have to go to a dog with extremely rock solid nerve to accomodate the social aggression that will continue to pop up from this much Cordon in a dog being passed on. I have friend from Holland that has recently moved to Czech Republic who breeds like this on Cordon....he is very successful in what he is producing. He produces dogs for police recruitment....he's not a fan of sport WL whatsoever. BUT, he is incredibly knowledgeable about the lines he is using, has been breeding dogs for 30 years and very successful, so though what he does has interest to me(And I am scheduled to get a pup from him in his next litter), not sure what he is doing with Cordon in something for everyone.


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## BlackthornGSD (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks Cliff!


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## IllinoisGSD (Sep 21, 2011)

JB in addition to Gator?


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## jb_pwrstroke (Jul 9, 2007)

Yes i still have gator/devil dog i started a new thread about the new dog.


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