# Question about grain free food



## Megansambec (Oct 19, 2018)

I switch my pup from Royal Canin to Fromm grain free large breed a while ago. It helped with itching, loose stools and his coat looks amazing. At his 4 month check up today my vet fussed at me for even thinking about a grain free. She told me that he will get DCM if he stays on it and only recommends he eat Royal Canin, Purina or hills. I was shocked over her recommendations. She’s an awesome vet and my dog loves her but I’m concerned about her food choices. My pup has done well with a good with no chicken in it and finding that option with grain is hard. Any suggestions? I won’t do raw.


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## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Why? It has Taurine added to it. My friend has been feeding her pup that food, he's 11 months, 90 lbs and healthy. Your puppy is young. If it's doing well on that food I'd stick with it another few months.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

Think twice.

My Golden Retriever was born with a congenital heart defect. I know how hard and devastating heart failure can be.

If you can do something for your dog, something that will give him a happy and healthy life, please do it. For him.


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## McGloomy (Mar 13, 2018)

The studies that link grain-free food to diseases are actually still ongoing. It's up to the reader what to make out of it. Purina, Hill's and Royal Canin are all 'Vet Recommended Food,' filled with corn, wheat, soy, by-products. While it's not as rubbish as Pedigree or Alpo dry food, I think people should be able to choose other brand, unless their dog really, really likes it. The only thing I can think of on why your vet reacted like that is because probably she gets paid whenever she makes a sale. I wouldn't listen to her, well done you for changing from RC to Fromm, grain-free!!!!


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## kr16 (Apr 30, 2011)

Megansambec said:


> I switch my pup from Royal Canin to Fromm grain free large breed a while ago. It helped with itching, loose stools and his coat looks amazing. At his 4 month check up today my vet fussed at me for even thinking about a grain free. She told me that he will get DCM if he stays on it and only recommends he eat Royal Canin, Purina or hills. I was shocked over her recommendations. She’s an awesome vet and my dog loves her but I’m concerned about her food choices. My pup has done well with a good with no chicken in it and finding that option with grain is hard. Any suggestions? I won’t do raw.


Most vets know very little about pet food. They sell prescription food which has no active ingredients and by law does not need a prescription. Its a trademark of Hills and a sort of scam.

Why Are Foods Sold By Prescription So Much More Expensive Than Dog Food in Stores? | News at Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts


So go in with a bad of Orijen and make the vet read the bag verse a bag of Royal canine 


https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/what-does-your-dogs-vet-know-about-nutrition/ 

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/calling-bullhit-prescription-diet-dog-food/


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## Hawke (Oct 31, 2018)

One thing worth noting: while the studies about the possible link between grain-free and DCM are still very much ongoing, and by no means conclusive, the current thought seems to be that it's more complicated than just taurine being absent from the food. The current thinking seems to be that there may be something in many grain-free foods (possibly related to the lentils) that is blocking the absorption of taurine. The fact that Fromm supplements taurine might not actually make a difference if that suspicion is proven correct. This thread here has an interesting discussion with several informative resources linked, and might be worth a read.

That said, there's nothing conclusive and you have to make the best call that you can with the knowledge you have. Just keep an ear out for updates, but in the mean time, weigh the pros and cons of each dog food for your specific dog. If you think you need to avoid chicken or grains, then do that! If you think it's just chicken, maybe see how your pup does on a grain-inclusive but chicken-free food. I don't know of any off the top of my head, and depending on where you live, it might be hard to find any locally, but looking into it doesn't hurt. It might also be that your pup is just fine with chicken, but had trouble with something else in the RC make up. I've known dogs who really struggled on RC or Hills but then did well when switching to something like Victor, whether grain-free or grain-inclusive. 

Whatever you decide, I would take your vet's advice about the Royal Canin, Purina, and Hills with a grain of salt, though. At least, that's what I decided to do. I also recently spoke to my vet about food options for my girl, because I'd been rotating grain-free Fromm diets, and was concerned about the ongoing UC Davis study. Now, this is a new vet for me, but so far I've liked her answers to other questions I've been asking, but as soon as she told me that the only safe foods she recommended were RC, Purina (she did at least specify only Pro Plan, but still), and Hills, I knew I wouldn't be getting stellar nutritional advice from her. That said, she did help explain how complicated the current study is, especially regarding the potential role of taurine, and that was enough for me to decide that I wanted to switch my girl to a grain-inclusive, low/no-lentil food with protein traditionally rich in taurine. I settled on switching to the grain-inclusive Fromm line, but I recognize that wouldn't help your pup if he does actually need to avoid chicken.


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## dOg (Jan 23, 2006)

New Vets rag on me for raw feeding..."Purina has DATA, I trust the DATA" OK, dear, whatever.
There is not a tooth in their head designed to eat grain. Let that sink in. I use Fromm as well...


Old vets don't bother, as I'm as old as they are, and they are wise enough to know somehow, before Purina, dogs thrived.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Here is a big, long, thread with input from a cardiologist vet tech.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/for...-dog-foods-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy.html

Bottom line is they don't know why the food has a correlation to the DCM and it's not all dogs on grain free. IMO, if your dog is doing well, just add additional taurine to be safe.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

I'd just supplement with raw meats and not worry about it. One of the best things we ever did for Jack was supplement his food with raw beef and eggs. Sometimes we'll boil up some chicken and make a broth--especially if we roast a whole chicken we throw all of the giblets and neck in (always peel the meat off of the neck after cooking) to create a thick bone broth. We'll mix that up in the kibble along with some hot water to make a stew. The extra water has really helped cut down on his shedding and dander. Plus he eats every bit of his food within a few minutes.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Grain-free is marketing hype. It usually doesn't have more meat. It mostly just substitutes potatoes, peas and tapioca for oats or rice....and charges more for that swap. Dogs can digest rice and oats at least as well as potatoes, and far better than peas -- worse, the peas/lentils/chickpeas inflate the protein numbers with plant-based protein, which means LESS meat to hit those same numbers. It truly seems to me like it's one of the greatest marketing scams in decades.

Why don't you swap out to the turquoise bag of Fromm Large Breed with grain? It costs a little less, so you'll have a few extra bucks to spend on treats and chews...and as an added bonus, not have to argue with your vet, and still get a food made by a very reputable brand. 

This comparison truly tells the story:

Fromm Gold LBP (WITH grain): 
https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/gold/dry/#large-breed-puppy-gold



Crude Protein *26%* MIN
Crude Fat *14%* MIN
Crude Fiber *5.5%* MAX
Moisture *10%* MAX




Fromm Gold Heartland LBP (without grain):
https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/gold/dry/#heartland-gold-large-breed-puppy



Crude Protein *26%* MIN
Crude Fat *14%* MIN
Crude Fiber *6.0%* MAX
Moisture *10%* MAX


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## Megansambec (Oct 19, 2018)

Well I can’t do anything with chicken since it causes him to itch non stop. I did look at that one first.


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## gsdworld7 (Nov 3, 2018)

How are you so sure it is the chicken that causes this reaction? Rarely a dog is allergic to just one thing.


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