# Looking for a LONG list of reputable breeders!



## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Hey All,

I'm looking for a GSD that I will be personally training for the first time. Agility training seems like it would be a really fun thing to do, but I'd need a dog that can be ok with being in the house for hours at a time when I'm at work as well. Are there any good breeders on the East Coast (preferably, however I am not averse to traveling to get a puppy, so generally anything from Kentucky to the East Coast would probably work) that, in your experiences, have dogs that basically have good "Off" switches? I also like strong looking GSDs, with high rear ends, not the tapered hindquarters of the show breeds.

Sorry if this is a common question but it would be a huge help! I was looking at Sequoyah, while traveling (I haven't been able to call Sherle), but she unfortunately hasn't replied to my e-mail just yet. Those dogs look amazing, and sort of epitomize what I want in a GSD (Argo being the prime example of that).

Thanks a ton for the time reading this!


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Argo

Basically I want a German Shepherd that looks like his DAD or just like this gorgeous puppy


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Apologies for the number of posts - No editing makes it tough, but I currently live in NJ. Distance is not too big of a deal, but I really haven't found an ideal pair aside from these two that had Argo. Any similar suggestions would be awesome! I might be interested in more than Agility competitions, but I'm not sure I'd be able to train a dog at a higher level than that since this would be my first real attempt at that.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

Welcome to the board, Alex. 

One of the best ways to find a good breeder in your area would be to visit local GSD breed clubs and all-breed training/performance clubs (Schutzhund/IPO, agility, obedience, etc...) Typically clubs are a great way to find a large population of GSDs from various bloodlines and breeders concentrated in one place, and to meet the dogs in person and talk to their owners to see what dogs/breeders you like and don't like, and get recommendations.

These are also some good places to start turning up breeders that may or may not have what you want. These are by no means comprehensive lists and there's no guarantee these are all good breeders either. It's just a place to start your research. 

United Schutzhund Clubs of America ? Registered Kennels

Breeder Directory - German Shepherd Guide

Also some good info on how to select a breeder:
How to Select a Breeder - German Shepherd Guide


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Chris has given you some good links to check out, especially the "how to select a breeder".

Wanted to add, it would benefit yourself and the dog to find a good trainer/training facility to go to, vs training on your own.

There is a thread here if you do a search, on members of this forum who have sequoyah dogs..


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks for the replies! I've actually been reading quite a bit (the How To Select a Breeder link as well!), and have an idea that if I were to do agility training where I could go once or twice a week within 45min of my house.

The idea would be to train him once a week in obedience to start, then agility when he's old enough to start (I might be interested in Schutzhund but I think it might be a bit out of my ability to do so).

I have gone through about 50 breeder websites and haven't found any mix that looks as amazing as the parents of Argo... There are a lot of positive messages about Sequoyah on here.

I should be able to give Sherle a call soon, I hope I'm not too late!

Thanks again everyone for the welcome and help  I will definitely be using the websites you provided Chris, and the advice you gave JakodaCD


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I've met some Sequoyah dogs in person and they were lovely. The male I met was largish and the owner had nothing but good things to say about Sherle too. She did say her boy was a handful but in GSD world that's not always a bad thing!

BUT....you mention Argo's parents and he's a Drago Vom Patriot son, Drago is drop dead gorgeous for sure. Most folks I know who get Drago babies also mention the intensity. 

Meaning the *potential* is there for them to be a LOT of dog....and more geared to bite sports then agility(?).

I'm just sharing that bit of information so you can ask Sherle questions about what her breedings with Drago are producing... There are a couple of members here with Drago babies also but unfortunately they don't post a lot. 

Good luck with your search! 





AlexRD said:


> Thanks for the replies! I've actually been reading quite a bit (the How To Select a Breeder link as well!), and have an idea that if I were to do agility training where I could go once or twice a week within 45min of my house.
> 
> The idea would be to train him once a week in obedience to start, then agility when he's old enough to start (I might be interested in Schutzhund but I think it might be a bit out of my ability to do so).
> 
> ...


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Here is a stacked picture of Drago (page link below)










Welcome to the Canine Concepts


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Well that's helpful information! The reason I was interested in Agility competitions more than bite-work stuff is because I feel like the barrier to entry as far as learning is much lower for a first-time trainer. If the offspring of Drago (who is a gorgeous and impressive dog - I saw that website you linked earlier this week!) aren't a fit for my intended lifestyle, then I definitely don't want to shoehorn the dog into something like that.

All these responses are great and much appreciated  I'm being very honest with the intended lifestyle, because I really don't want to get a dog that needs to be outside and active 10 hours a day stuck inside while I work. So a balance needs to be struck! Thanks again for the responses


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I think, in that regard, it comes down to the individual parents of the dogs. I have had some who were just fine switching between couch potato and work and my current one who is busy busy busy and is very inventive at getting in trouble. I doubt he will ever be let free in a house.


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## vomlittlehaus (Aug 24, 2010)

If you plan to work (train) and exercize (mental/physical stimulation) when you are home from work, there shouldn't be a problem with any line of dog. If this is your first GSD, high drive might not be in either of yours best interest. If Drago is producing high and medium drive pups, he certainly would be an option. He is the popular one at the moment. There are plenty of great breeders on the east coast that could provide you with a pup you are looking for. Its great that you are being honest with yourself about your abilities. Another option to look into for your young pup would be a daycare that takes the age of the pup into consideration. There is a daycare near me whos owner has GSD's and the onsite trainer is a Schutzhund helper/trainer so they know the breed.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

I hesitated to say anything because I know it's got a lot of grey in there....

BUT Alex mentioned twice he really likes Drago and then about leaning towards not getting involved in bite sports so just from a generic stacking the odds kind of perspective - I've rubbed shoulders with a few Drago pup owners and the *tendency* is for his pups to be pretty strong dogs they have each told me. These folks know a lot more then me so I'm just repeating their observations. I got to hold a Drago pup at an IPO trial last year, she was for sale too....now I wonder if I should have taken the leap...but anyhoo... 

I know it varies and if Alex was really interested in, had experience with working lines, bite sports, agility too I probably wouldn't have posted anything.

However if he wants to get a Drago baby it doesn't hurt for him to have a little more information to use to ask questions about what Drago brings to the table. 





jocoyn said:


> I think, in that regard, it comes down to the individual parents of the dogs. I have had some who were just fine switching between couch potato and work and my current one who is busy busy busy and is very inventive at getting in trouble. I doubt he will ever be let free in a house.


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## martemchik (Nov 23, 2010)

I wouldn't worry much about it. As much as Drago is spreading his seed, there is no way all those puppies are going to working homes. I think its safe to assume that a lot of them are in pet homes that do little to no bite work.

I think the most important thing would be to find a great female that is being bred with him to balance him out a little more. And also a breeder you can trust to pick the correct puppy for the home.

Need to watch out a bit because the word is that Drago isn't very selective about who he spreads his seed to.


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

A caution... and this is NOT meant to reflect at all on Drago, his owners or any specific breeder. He is the new, hot thing in the US right now. Which means a lot of people are breeding to him due to his popularity. No question he is being used by some excellent breeders who know what they are doing and who are producing exceptional dogs. But whenever any sire becomes popular, and especially if it's a big name, newly imported dog, it also tends to draw many people who are breeding strictly to sell puppies and who think that big name male will make their pups more marketable, or who ignorantly believe that he must be popular because he produces such "good" pups, and thus will undoubtedly produce good pups for them and then don't bother to research the lines and traits and make sure he really is a good match for their female.

So don't get suckered in by a big name, or good looks, or popularity of a male. And be judicious in making sure that the breeder you choose is breeding based on true understanding of the dogs and bloodlines being bred and not just going with the "flavor of the month" dog because everyone else is doing it. 

Again, not specifically thinking of anyone when I say that or that this is a problem specific to Drago. It is just a trend that happens frequently. I can think of a dozen other males that this has occurred with just in the past few years. It happens all the time.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

There are a couple of threads discussing Drago on this board, you can do a search and read up and learn more about him if you're interested.

Another thing you can do for either a Drago litter or any other litter you're interested in is go to the pedigree section and post up the pedigree of the sire and dam and we have some knowledgeable folks who can give you ideas as to what the bloodlines bring to the breeding.

I've only run with the bite sport crowd so I'm feeding back what they have said. I wish qbchutto (member here) checked in more frequently, she has seen Drago and has a Drago baby that she's working/training.

Sounds like you're on the right path though. 



AlexRD said:


> Well that's helpful information! The reason I was interested in Agility competitions more than bite-work stuff is because I feel like the barrier to entry as far as learning is much lower for a first-time trainer. If the offspring of Drago (who is a gorgeous and impressive dog - I saw that website you linked earlier this week!) aren't a fit for my intended lifestyle, then I definitely don't want to shoehorn the dog into something like that.
> 
> All these responses are great and much appreciated  I'm being very honest with the intended lifestyle, because I really don't want to get a dog that needs to be outside and active 10 hours a day stuck inside while I work. So a balance needs to be struck! Thanks again for the responses


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

*sigh* and this is why I usually never post in these threads because even if you use qualifiers such as *potential* or *just* or *probability* or *may be* someone's going to come along and make a big deal about it. uggh.

btw in blue maybe you should give Gary a call and let 'em know that. 

In the meantime Alex, you'll do fine! Have fun puppy hunting. 

Over and out.



martemchik said:


> I wouldn't worry much about it. As much as Drago is spreading his seed, there is no way all those puppies are going to working homes. I think its safe to assume that a lot of them are in pet homes that do little to no bite work.
> 
> I think the most important thing would be to find a great female that is being bred with him to balance him out a little more. And also a breeder you can trust to pick the correct puppy for the home.
> 
> Need to watch out a bit because the word is that Drago isn't very selective about who he spreads his seed to.


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

Your thoughts on doing obed and then getting into agility is a good way to go.

Speaking from my perspective and having done agility as well as obedience..you definitely need to get your basic obedience foundation down FIRST and then add your agility training (altho there are alot of good puppy foundation classes 'for' agility)

You also are going to want a dog that is going to be able to handle the stress/hustle and bustle of the dog trial scene...

With that, here's a tip,,when your future puppy is old enough to safely go out in public, take him to any and all trials/shows you can to just hang out and soak up the atmosphere..

Tho I don't do agility anymore , my female came from kleinenhain (a member here ) who has numerous agility titles as well as others on her dogs. 

With that in mind, I personally would be looking into dogs/breeders that are trialing their dogs in the activities you are interested in..

Here is wanda's website if your interested Kleinen Hain German Shepherds - Home
My female is out of Max and Helga v eurosportu.

And to also add, Chris has dogs out there doing agility as well


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

jocoyn and dawnandjr - Thanks for the replies!

Ideally, what I most likely see myself doing is taking the dog out for a walk every day after work for about an hour, or playing with him in my smallish yard. I would also most likely take him out when he gets a bit older with me when I do sprint training, and running in general (once he's grown, not as a puppy).

I am interested in agility work because I feel like that's the simplest "higher level" training than obedience training. I am interested in Schutzhund, but I really have no clue where to start and I'm not even sure I can make the time commitment since I'm 100% sure it's most likely harder than agility (which I could do on Saturdays). 

My basic schedule is usually 8 hour work days, but I work 5 minutes from home, so I can stop by and play with him at lunch time as well. I also travel 1-2 weeks at a time, 4-6x a year for work, so I would have to look for an appropriate daycare for that duration! But overall I definitely think I could commit to a once a week training regimen with the dog, as well as daily activity.



Gwenhwyfair - Information is what I'm looking for! We also have a farm in the Catskills (NY) that I'd go up to once every 3-4 weeks, so he'd have room to roam at times as well. Drago pups, from everything I've been told here and read elsewhere, can be a handful. I'm thinking if I find mid-level puppies that are not in need of constant attention and action, it would be a good fit, as I live a somewhat active lifestyle.


martemchik - Would you say Drago has low standards? Or just has one too many drinks frequently and goes home with the first girl he sees? haha. This goes into what Chris said - I really liked what I saw from the page on Sequoyah, which is why I have my heart set on the Connie/Drago pups (I know appearance isn't everything, but those dogs hit me as the I WANT ONE! type). I'll be able to call her tomorrow about them (travel, yay), but I'm sure they're all reserved.

Honestly I'm all ears for everything being posted! Critique is something I embrace, as long as it's constructive and helps inform me to make better choices.

Thanks again for the replies!


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

:wild: Lol!! 





alexrd said:


> <snipped>
> 
> 
> martemchik - *would you say drago has low standards? Or just has one too many drinks frequently and goes home with the first girl he sees? Haha*. This goes into what chris said - i really liked what i saw from the page on sequoyah, which is why i have my heart set on the connie/drago pups (i know appearance isn't everything, but those dogs hit me as the i want one! Type). I'll be able to call her tomorrow about them (travel, yay), but i'm sure they're all reserved.
> ...


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

Something to consider with Drago, if you would like to do agility, is that he is a HUGE dog and is producing his size. His pups are athletic, but the size would definitely not be what you want in agility.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

AlexRD said:


> I am interested in agility work because I feel like that's the simplest "higher level" training than obedience training.


I've seen this sentiment expressed in a couple of posts and I feel like I should step in to say that agility training is... not simple.

Of course, competition obedience training is not simple either, but high-level agility is most definitely not easier.


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Merciel said:


> I've seen this sentiment expressed in a couple of posts and I feel like I should step in to say that agility training is... not simple.
> 
> Of course, competition obedience training is not simple either, but high-level agility is most definitely not easier.


Please educate me! I felt that agility would be easier to learn to train at the lower levels than what they do for Schutzhund with 3 different events. I didn't mean to disparage agility training by any means.

It's sort of like comparing powerlifting and olympic lifting. Olympic lifting is far more technically advanced than powerlifting, and harder to get "in to," but at the highest levels both are very difficult.

SIZE is something I did not consider with Drago, and something I should think about as well. Thanks for pointing that one out! I don't know if I plan on competing that much, or will just be doing it for the purpose of giving the dog mental and physical stimulation. That still depends...


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I would also consider this. If you really think you may want to dive deeply into some activity, go there first BEFORE you get the dog and see if it is what you think it is, if the people are a fit for your personality and it looks like fun. Ask if you can watch, maybe even help out in some way. Get to know the other folks.

Frequently we see people "getting a dog for Search and Rescue" from breeders who know just what to sell them but unfortunately have not worked dogs in that discipline and really don't know.....the ones who do know are going to be skeptical of selling a dog for that purpose if they don't have a good assurance it is going to happen. So we tell people wait to get a dog until you are involved with the team.

I imagine that could be true of any sport. Nothing like really getting into something and finding out you have the great pet who does not have the true genetic potential to rise to the top in THAT discipline. Now if you just want to clunk around and have a little fun, I don't think it matters. Go for the best pet you can find...healthy, attractive, calm temperament, moderate drives etc. and then have some fun.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

I am really not the best person to go in-depth about agility. I did some foundational classes, and I have a lot of friends who compete actively, but I never made it to actual competition myself because my Akita mix Crookytail is (alas) enthusiastic and willing but not smart enough for the sport.

There are a fair number of people on this board who are seriously into it, though, and they would be much better to ask.

All I can really tell you is that the handling skills necessary to compete at any quasi-serious level in agility are pretty technically demanding, and doing them at speed on the course is very challenging. I'm a decent enough Rally/obedience handler, but agility handling is totally alien to the way I would normally move my body, and I would have had to work pretty darn hard to get good at it. It's not easy on any level.

It's also (in my opinion) not a sport to which GSDs are ideally suited. Hardcore agility dogs tend to be significantly smaller and lighter-boned.

I certainly don't want to discourage you from trying it -- agility is a _great_ sport, tons of fun, wonderful for building your handling skills and relationship with your dog -- and it is certainly possible to achieve advanced titles and championships with a GSD.

But if you're drawn to the sport because you think it's going to be easier to learn, well, that is probably a misconception.


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Merciel and Jocoyn, thanks a ton for those messages. I agree entirely. I've been reading a ton and plan on seeing a few trials to see how it goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_H6dysmu_k

This is pretty much what I expect to happen for a looooong time if I do get into agility training, but the dog looks like he's having fun and it's a way to get us both competitive in one activity.

So basically I want an activity that I can compete in with my dog, that we'd both have fun in. Schutzhund seems more complicated to *train* for, due to the different testing and tools required. That might be a misconception on my end, and be a wrong opinion, but someone else with experience in both enlightening me would be much appreciated!

Edit: Now if my dog is good at it, and I can learn fast enough to get good at training it, I would like to compete. I'm a competitive guy by heart, so that's something...


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

If I were you, I'd be hitting some clubs/venues that train in the sport that interest me and go from there. Chat with handlers and look at dogs. 

There are dogs that are eye candy, but they may not be the right dog for the sport or venue we choose. Best to see some dogs and learn more about what is involved, schutzhund may be something you get addicted to...or herding, you never know until you get out and watch/observe/experience what is going on.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I've trained and titled multiple dogs in both agility and Schutzhund (though not at high levels) and I would agree with the others that agility is not any less complex, less precise, or less demanding than Schutzhund.


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## AlexRD (Apr 15, 2014)

Liesje said:


> I've trained and titled multiple dogs in both agility and Schutzhund (though not at high levels) and I would agree with the others that agility is not any less complex, less precise, or less demanding than Schutzhund.


Can you tell me more? I don't want this to devolve into a debate about Agility vs. Schutzhund, because that's not what I intended, it just seemed like Agility had less of an initial barrier to entry than Schutzhund. I may be wrong, and I'm happy to learn more! My misconceptions can be cleared up pretty quickly!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Sure I'll just describe my experience. I think as far as initial barrier, I agree. 

Around me, there are 4-5 different places I could take Beginner Agility within a 45 minute drive (not saying they are all the same quality...). There are agility trials within 20 minute drive probably 6-8 times a year. There is not a single Schutzhund club within an hour's radius. A little farther than that and I have 2 choices. 2-3 hour drive (one way) and I've got 4-5 choices. Of these clubs, I only know of 3 that actually hold a trial at least once a year.

Both Schutzhund and agility have difficulties due to resources which is the #1 reason I am currently not actively doing either. Schutzhund would require a 2-3 hour drive one way to be a member of the club of my choice. I cannot do anything in protection without access to a helper, which would only be 2-3 times a month at most. The club trains on a weeknight as well but due to distance, I wouldn't get there until 9PM which is worthless. Obedience I can pretty much train on my own, but tracking requires access to decent land 4-6 times a week if you want to actually make progress and title (not talking about winning big trials). Agility I can do much closer to home and requires less space but has more complex equipment requirements. Then I'm paying for floor rentals so I have access to what I need. Also when I did SchH I would train obedience during the week with a few friends and we'd help each other. With agility I find that I really need my instructor there helping or watching video footage. It's just so much more complex than a Schutzhund track or obedience routine, which in Schutzhund really is a *routine*.

The training itself.... both complex in different ways. I've use a lot of my SchH knowledge in agility and vice-versa. Watching most SchH people train their dogs to jump the 1m is often painful for me, lol. Just a little bit of agility foundation and the dog can easily clear the jump both ways from lying on his stomach. It's hardly even worth hashing out all the differences because obviously they are very different sports, but both require a commitment to training on your own, not just showing up at class or at the club once or twice a week and expecting to make great progress.

Right now I'm not doing either b/c of time and cost. My older dog is finishing conformation and lure coursing next month, so that will hopefully free up some time and $$$ so I can get back into agility. I've got two friends (one is my instructor) that both want to run my dog in trials and I'm seriously considering this. Before, I was very adamant about me, the owner, doing all the training and handling myself. However if I may say so, my dog has real potential for agility and I'm not a very natural handler. I tend to overthink things and get lost on the course easily. When my dog runs with someone else he looks brilliant. So my instructor wants to play around with some of us running each others' dogs. My puppy is just 6 months and I'm letting him mature a bit before I take him to SchH club. I will be doing tracking with him starting this weekend and then start more formal SchH obedience later this summer. Right now all three of my dogs do flyball since it's close by, easy to train at home in the small spaces I have (and I often get together with friends to do drills), plenty of tournaments (I can compete once a month if I'm able to make every tournament), the dogs love it, the club dues and tournament fees are a fraction of Schutzhund or agility.


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## HuskyMal89 (May 19, 2013)

OT....I like Brisco vom Patriot better myself haha. No relation to Drago but same breeder. He is overseas and not in the states like Drago is. Good luck in your search!! If you end up with a pup that looks like either Brisco or Drago you won't be let down . Their working ability is also pretty good to ha. Big bodied dogs for agility though..


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## MilesNY (Aug 12, 2010)

Hi Alex, I have a Drago baby. I do IPO and agility with her. With Drago, you need to look at the female he is bred to not just him. He does lay his stamp on all the pups from him I have seen but intensity depends on the bitch as well. I could not do bite work with Khaleesi as long as I did some work with her. She is bordering on insane when working, but sleeps in my bed and cuddles on the couch at home. I just stress that even without bite work her prey drive and intensity would make her a challenge to work if you are not experienced. Size wise he does throw big dogs, but Khaleesi is extremely athletic. K is about 60-65 lbs but really long legs, and she is just over a year so will probably fill out to seventy. 

Temperament wise, and again the bitch plays into this, but K is very very stable. She will work anywhere, nothing bothers her, she isn't reactive to dogs and people. She was a handful as a puppy though... More than I have ever seen in any dog and I have been around for a bit. If you are think of only doing clicker work and such you may want to reconsider. I start out all my pups with only positive methods and I intended to with khaleesi as well. That being said, she needed firm life rules in place for everyone's safety. If her prey drive kicked off she would bite whatever she could get in her mouth and wouldn't let it go. This was at 12 weeks. We put a firm stop to that and she didn't do it again. It was not something I ever thought I would see in a tiny pup. I have heard of others having similar issues if b boundaries are not established young. That being said she is not a hard dog, she is very responsive to training. I used all clicker work with her and then just other things for life behaviors. She is a great dog, hope this helps, good luck on 


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## HuskyMal89 (May 19, 2013)

I agree with MilesNY 100% in the fact that one the female has a huge role in determining the the temperament of the pup (was thinking these things after I posted my comment). Two, a female would be your best bet in most cases with this type of dog for agility because a male would only be more headstrong and harder to train to a high level for someone without experience. Three, a male would almost certainly be 90 pounds or a bit more....a lot of dog for agility and most likely not agile enough even though he may be big, strong and athletic. If you wanna get into to PSA or IPO it sounds like from MilesNY experience this is a stud you'd want as long as the litter was well matched up with a good balance in the female he was paired with. Good luck on your search once again!


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