# Puppy is Fussy Eater



## summerronk (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi everyone,

So, I finally have my little baby, and she is sooooo cute! She is nine weeks old. She is on her third day and is a very fussy eater, and suffers from loose stools. Some of this is because of the shock of moving to a new home. The good news is that she is soooo happy, playful, drinking water, etc. And she doesn't have a fever.

Anyway, she was eating raw ground beef and a little bit of kibble. The first day she barely ate. The next morning, she ate a good amount of the ground beef, as well as some kibble. She barely ate at lunch that day. At night, she refused to eat at all. This morning (the third day), she did not want to eat again. Around 11 AM, though, I gave her a hard boiled egg and she LOVED it! Just devoured it. But no luck on the ground beef or the kibble. She also loves these liver treats I have (by the way, I only let her try the liver treats today when she was not eating anything). 

So, my question is, any other ideas of what I should try to feed her since she is being kind of fussy? I could go buy a raw liver and give her some, but doesn't liver cause the runs? If she already is having loose stools, it seems like raw liver might just exacerbate it.

I look forward to everyone's ideas!!!


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

summerronk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> So, I finally have my little baby, and she is sooooo cute! She is nine weeks old. She is on her third day and is a very fussy eater, and suffers from loose stools. Some of this is because of the shock of moving to a new home. The good news is that she is soooo happy, playful, drinking water, etc. And she doesn't have a fever.
> 
> ...



So you have a new pup and she is eating primarily hamburger meat? I think I would do something that is good for you and good for the dog.

STOP IT RIGHT NOW.

It is fine to add some fresh food, but in addition to a good dry. When the puppy is full grown you can play animal nutritionist but right now let the experts handle it.

By the way, if you wanna really see a pup with the runs already go on IV, feed liver.

I suspect you have a good mom and pop pet store or Petsmart close by. Go there and get an All Life Stages food or Large Breed Puppy Food like Royal Canin GSD Puppy, Euk Large Breed Puppy, Eagle Large Breed Puppy and sit back and enjoy a pup.

Also, a 9 week old won't have very firm stools so don't go nuts.


----------



## wilbanks17 (Feb 11, 2011)

Yes, stay away from liver as a puppy!


----------



## summerronk (Apr 13, 2011)

wilbanks17 said:


> Yes, stay away from liver as a puppy!


Thanks. I'll hold off from giving her raw liver till she is older then. The only liver she ate so far was an actual packaged treat, so that one wasn't raw/untreated. I'll see if she is hungrier tonight. Her stool was actually much thicker today, so perhaps she is having some progress! She is one happy pup!!


----------



## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I would also have a fecal test run by your vet


----------



## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

You will create an extremely picky pup if you keep offering her this and that and trying to please her. Also switching around her food could cause her to get diarrhea. I have been there and done that with my gsd. My advice is to pick out a healthy food at your local pet store and stick to it. Make sure that meat is the #1 ingredient in it, my dog had soft stool because of the dog food having corn as the #1 ingredient, when I switched him to a food with lamb as the #1 ingredient his poop has been solid ever since.


----------



## 4evrlove (Mar 13, 2011)

I fed my 8 week old pup raw from the moment he got here and he's 19 months old now and in perfect condition. Many other people have too.

However, there is a program and method to doing it correctly to make sure all nutritional needs are met.

I use a "prey" style raw diet where I feed 80% meat 10% bone 10% organs - of which 5% of the organ is liver.

But when you start feeding raw it's best to start with a base of chicken and work your way up to other meats, than organs. First start with skinless bone in chicken breasts, then in a couple of days add to one of the meals some chicken leg/thigh meat, then perhaps add a wing. Then in a few days do the gizzards. Afterward start another meat source but add it to your chicken base - like a small piece of beef or pork not ground. Continue adding more of another meat and less of chicken. Then start with small piece of heart, etc. Finally then I start introducing small pieces of organs. 

The idea is to keep introducing small amounts of new food to your base food so there is no discomfort with stools. Going too fast with introduction of new meats, or feeding larger meals than necessary, can result in soft stools or diaherria.

In about a month or a little longer my pup was eating pretty much any type of meat, organ, or fat cuts, without issue. I introduced raw eggs and fish oil last to his diet.

I did feed him 3 times a day until about 9 months of age and then went to 2 times a day until now.

Good Luck,
czel


----------



## 4evrlove (Mar 13, 2011)

One more thing, I found this site to be extremely helpful:

Raw Feeding FAQ

And this yahoo group is great - lots of knowledgeable professional people and breeders on it:

rawfeeding : Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

there is nothing wrong with liver at any age , just people tend to give too much. For a pup that age a cube of about one inch, size of an ice cube would be about right. Liver is high in copper and too much copper can be toxic.
Carmen

had to edit , replace would be too much , with would be about right -- sheesh


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

This age is when bad habits begin. It is critically important that good habits start now, including eating when mom or dad puts the food down.

If you want to be married to finding, buying, defrosting and chopping inferior, unbalanced meals for your dog, then you are doing things right. 

If you want to pull your hair out because the dog won't eat when it is an adult, you are doing things right, too. Puppies that have persistent diarrhea are also at much greater risk to getting chronic colitis and anal gland infections.

Pups are a ton of work, spend the time training and socializing, leave the feeding to people that know what they are doing.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

Contrary to some people's opinions you do not have to be anyone special to feed a growing puppy a raw diet.

All it takes is a little common sense and an easy to follow plan.

First, I would decide if you want to feed all raw, all kibble or half and half. You could just give some raw meat once a week but any more than that and you really need to have some balance.

A raw diet includes meat AND bones (edible) AND organ meats (like liver).

You need to figure out how much to feed and make sure you are not OVERfeeding.

By the way - the two major signs of overfeeding are loose stools and no appetite.


----------



## summerronk (Apr 13, 2011)

** Personal insults are not allowed on the board


----------



## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

If you haven't already, get a fecal done at the vet's to rule out any intestinal parasites. A LOT of puppies have parasites when they first come home from the breeder. 

I don't agree with trying this, that, and the other stuff to get your puppy to eat. He's not going to starve himself. Decide what you want to feed. Put it down for 15 minutes in the morning, then pick it back up again. Put it down for 15 minutes in the afternoon, then pick it up again. Do it again in the evening. I guarantee that by the middle of the second day your pup will be eating like a champ.


----------



## wilbanks17 (Feb 11, 2011)

carmspack said:


> *Liver is high in copper and too much copper can be toxic.*
> Carmen


 Exactly why it is not good for a puppy!


----------



## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

summerronk said:


> Personal insult removed


I will tell you why. I have spent too long breeding (and losing money breeding) to see healthy puppies get sick despite the ease afforded by today's foods and veterinary care.

No matter how well someone screens puppy buyers this happens. I remember some knuckle head gave a puppy lemon ices about 10 years ago.

I am very sharp about this issue. I am sorry, but when some ER Vet hands you a $2500 bill at 3AM in the morning you will think "Eukanuba would have been a lot easier and cheaper".

Apologies.


----------



## AdamConnell (Mar 29, 2011)

Everything here is good advice for the most part... 

The big thing you MUST remember about your pup is that it is still a plain old DOG! I know this sounds harsh, but unless you stop catering to it's every whim, you will wind up with a miserable poorly behaved dog. I see it constantly. People spoil their dogs, and in return the dog turns into a little monster... they are actually rebelling against your weakness to them. You must be firm, but loving. You have to be the boss, you must make every decision and stick to it, and you must be consistent. It will feel like you're being mean, and you will feel like crap at first, but the dog will adapt and will eventually fall into a routine.

If the dog doesnt eat the kibble at feeding time, too bad. If it missed two feeding times, it will more than likely eat the third time. The dog will eat whatever is provided when it's hungry enough. Pick a high quality kibble for now, and read more on raw feeding. I am a Raw feeding newbie, but my 16 week old is on her second week and doing AMAZING! I do not see myself ever stepping away from raw feeding after the results I've seen, so I support your raw efforts. The big thing to remember is that your puppy WILL eat eventually unless it's sick. If it's drinking water, then more than likely the puppy is just being picky.

I know puppies are cute, but don't let the cuteness fool you... it's a dog and for both the puppy and your happiness, you must be the pack leader and treat the puppy like a dog. It will get easier as you get more annoyed, but start now or you'll be sorry.


----------



## AdamConnell (Mar 29, 2011)

People one more thing... I agree with Sable123! This is not a Raw vs. Kibble debate!

This is a matter of getting the puppy on a regular diet... it's obvious the OP does not know enough about raw feeding yet to provide proper nutrition for the puppy. A quality kibble will do a MUCH better job providing a consistent diet for the young pup for now, while the OP learns about a proper raw diet. The key issue right now is making sure the puppy's digestive system calms down so it can properly absorb whatever nutrients it's taking in.

Raw feeding isnt for everyone... and there are plenty of good dry dog foods that will provide adequate nutrition. Notice I said adequate, not optimal.


----------



## 4evrlove (Mar 13, 2011)

I agree with Adam. Before my pup arrived I knew I was going to feed it raw. It took me though about a month of research, reading, and asking a tons of questions until I figured out the menu, variety, protocol, etc. and gained confidence in myself with what I was doing. But I'm an anal person and I like details and info to make sure what I do is accurate and not risky.


----------



## summerronk (Apr 13, 2011)

sable123 said:


> I will tell you why. I have spent too long breeding (and losing money breeding) to see healthy puppies get sick despite the ease afforded by today's foods and veterinary care.
> 
> No matter how well someone screens puppy buyers this happens. I remember some knuckle head gave a puppy lemon ices about 10 years ago.
> 
> ...


No, you are just rude, and you never read my original post clearly.

First of all, and I don't even know why I am explaining this to you, the diet she is eating is FROM the vet. She is getting kibble, ground beef, an occasional egg. This is her normal diet right now, and I have stuck to it. The ONLY thing I did was give her some liver treats (three treats), which are NOT raw and are from the pet store for puppies. Otherwise, when she refused to eat, I have not changed her diet. All I did was ASK the kind people on this forum for their thoughts on whether I should try some raw liver. 

I got my answer from the nice ones of you, and I have decided against giving it to her. I would have asked my vet, but I have been asking him enough questions that I just wanted to ask on here first.

However, you completely ruined my experience Sable with this forum. Get off your high horse and treat people with respect.


----------



## unloader (Feb 16, 2010)

summerronk said:


> However, you completely ruined my experience Sable with this forum. Get off your high horse and treat people with respect.


This is a forum, there are many people that believe strongly in one thing or another...couple that with the lowered inhibition of the internet, and you get a very vocal group.

It's up to you to filter out what you are looking for and be careful what you say and what questions you ask, the whole world can read this.

There is a vast amount of information here, it would be sad to miss out on this because of one strongly opinionated person...


----------



## 4evrlove (Mar 13, 2011)

Actually if you are going to feed a raw diet raw liver is a MUST.

Additionally if you are feeding some raw with a kibble based diet than (according to my research) it's best to feed kibble in one meal and raw meat on its own at another meal. From what I read it's not good to mix them together because of digestion issues.

Generally speaking people think feeding raw is complicated and time consuming. But when you get the swing of things down it's sooooooooo easy and in fact I would say it's less work than kibble. With kibble you have to go to a pet store, lug the bags, pay sales tax on that food, store somewhere separate so the bugs/ants don't get in, and I personally hate the smell of kibble and kibble breath. Yuck.

With raw I buy food at the same store I shop for myself or when I buy it bulk from a coop I still buy it keeping in mind I will use the meat for my family too (like beef tongue, organic chicken quarters) - I buy only USDA human grade meats. I don't pay sales tax since it's produce, and where I live sales tax is now 10%. I don't have to waste time and money on gas to go to a separate store (gas here now is at $4.50/gallon), and the best part is how clean, fresh, your dog feels, looks, and smells. No yucky breath. Even after tripe, in a few minutes, his kisses don't smell like anything.

Other things to consider - with raw diets you probably won't have to do teeth cleaning with your pet since the bones, cartiledge, and tissues on the meat serve like a great floss and teeth cleaner. Also when my pup first arrived his ears had black stuff/wax/bacteria in them, after about a few weeks his ears were clean and spotless and I never do/did any ear cleanings. I bathed him twice since I got him and those times where because rolled in mud after heavy rains when he was a pup, but since like 6 months of age he had no baths, and his coat is spectacular, no smells, no dandruff, no oily feel to it, just amazing.

So you see there are many benefits and health pros to feeding raw. But it has to be done right to make sure the complete nutrition is there for you. It's not hard to do at all once you understand and know what you are doing.

Good luck.


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

carmspack said:


> Liver is high in copper and too much copper can be toxic.


 
*Daily Requirements for Copper*

Dogs should receive 3.3 mg of copper daily for every pound of dog food they eat (on a dry matter basis). The copper should be in a form other than copper oxide.


*1 ounce Chicken Liver*

26% Dry matter
.138 mg Copper


*1 ounce Beef Liver*

21% Dry matter
2.731 mg Copper

Goose and veal liver is high, turkey and pork liver is low.

By using a *VARIETY* (the key word in feeding raw) of sources you can balance the amounts without having to do any calculations (unless you want to).


----------



## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

sable123 said:


> I remember some knuckle head gave a puppy lemon ices about 10 years ago.


And, as long as thgat is not the basis for the dogs ENTIRE diet and it's just given as a treat, what's wrong with it??

My guys get vanilla ice cream frequently - especially the McDs small cones from the drive thru.


----------



## DeeMcB (Nov 28, 2010)

This saddens me and I hope that we as a community don't get in to the habit of shaming others out of their preferences/convictions. For a person to tell someone who posted on the BARF/Raw Feeding forum that they clearly don't know what they're doing and that they should stick with kibble is just insulting. Obviously the OP wants to raw feed in some form. Giving information to help educate would have been a more useful way to respond and I hope the OP takes insulting comments with a grain of salt. 

There's probably not one raw feeder who hasn't messed SOMETHING up along the way: Overfed, fed something that the dog was sensitive to, changed too much too soon. You figure it out, adjust and move on. It's highly unlikely that you are going to do any long term damage to your dog with one feeding -- you might make yourself miserable cleaning up poop, but the dog will be fine.


----------

