# Help! Vet wants to euthanize!



## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

I have a black GSD who will be two in July. Last Fall, during a vet visit, my dog refused to be examined, growled and tried to bite the Vet. He was fine with her until she tried to examine him, albeit very nervous. We had been to the same vet before without an issue. He has a few behavior issues - he isn't good in the car, is fearful when we take him away from the house and he is aggressive/fearful of anyone wearing a helmet. He's very well behaved with visitors and children. He's playful and loving toward my 8 year old daughter. Has no food aggression and gets along well with my 11 year old shepherd. We have had him since he was 7 weeks old. He used to be aggressive while on the leash and had separation anxiety, however he has grown out of both those issues. He goes for daily walks and gets lots of attention. My vet feels that he is dominant aggressive and feels that he should be euthanized. A local trainer feels that he has fear aggression and should be euthanized. I took him to the trainer to work on the separation anxiety and bad behavior in the car. I don't know what to do. I don't think that he is a danger to anyone in our family or neighbors. I don't like his behavior at the vet, although I do feel that they shouldn't have tried to examine him when they saw that he was so scared that he was trying to crawl in my lap. We genuinely want to keep the dog, but the vet and trainer have me very scared.
Any advice is appreciated.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

Not a danger to anyone without a helmet? Kidding. Find a new vet and trainer that understand the breed. Not sure where you are located. But I googled shutzhund training and that opened up balanced trainers.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

We are in Michigan, 20 minutes south of Flint.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

Find a different vet and a different trainer. Your dog doesn't have to be one of those dogs who go everywhere you go. However, I do think a good trainer would benefit you.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Thank you. Yes, I would like to find a good trainer!


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

ameliejo said:


> Thank you. Yes, I would like to find a good trainer!


I am sure someone on here will be able to help you with that. As far as vets I would not go back to current vet at all. The amazing Dr pol is only an hour or so from you isn't he. You may make it on the show.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

cdwoodcox said:


> I am sure someone on here will be able to help you with that. As far as vets I would not go back to current vet at all. The amazing Dr pol is only an hour or so from you isn't he. You may make it on the show.


I'm not familiar with that vet.


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## cdwoodcox (Jul 4, 2015)

ameliejo said:


> I'm not familiar with that vet.


Lol. My bad it's incredible not amazing. 
The incredible Dr pol has a show on the national geographic channel.


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## GatorBytes (Jul 16, 2012)

The vet wants to euthanize? Or the vet suggests you euth?
You are your dogs keeper and YOU make the decisions incl who gets YOUR business ($$$)


You have a large breed dog with big teeth that is black (prejudice with black dogs)


Many dogs don't like car rides (1st stressor before getting to vet)
Many don't like vets, many don't like vets that don't like certain dogs and they can sense that
Many have certain weird phobia's, like helmets, some don't like plastic bags, can be anything that made a neg imprint without knowing it did.


What you can do is add an herbal supplement called Ashwagandha. Natures Xanax. Works over time (not in like an hour for example)
It doesn't drug your dog either. Works on the adrenal glands and thyroid (stress hormones)
Helps balance so you can work on the other stuff.


Vet is jerk..IMHO:grin2:


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## Sunsilver (Apr 8, 2014)

The Incredible Dr. Pol (TV Series 2011? ) - IMDb He has his own TV show, and it's very popular!


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

I'm sick to my stomach about this advice. The two Pomeranians next door have attacked my dog and he hasn't hurt either of them. He just scooted his nose underneath them and punted them like footballs back into their yard (we have electric fences in our subdivision). He has never left his yard and rarely barks at anyone. Neither the trainer or the Vet have observed my dog in his home or neighborhood.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Sunsilver said:


> The Incredible Dr. Pol (TV Series 2011? ) - IMDb He has his own TV show, and it's very popular!


I'll look that up, thanks!


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I agree with looking for another vet and trainer. I don't know if any of these ideas would help, just throwing them out.

What about training your dog to wear a muzzle in the event you think he might misbehave? Of course, with the right vet, it might not even be needed. People on here can recommend the best kind and how to get your pup used to it so it becomes a non-issue. I would have no trouble agreeing to a muzzle for my Newlie if someone was apprehensive about handling him. After all, they don't want to get bit, and who can blame them? Vets/surgeons have usually been OK examining Newlie without a muzzle if I (or someone) hold his head.

Newlie has settled down since he got older, but I used to wait outside the vet's office until they would call us to go back in one of the examining rooms. Newlie doesn't like most other dogs and sitting in the waiting room with all the other animals did not work for us. I wonder if waiting outside until you are called might give him your pup less time to get fearful.

Other posters on different threads have recommended stopping by the vet's office periodically so that the vet and techs can give your dog treats and let him start to associate the office with something good.


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## LBethO (Mar 18, 2017)

WTH? Euthanized? Um, what do they suggest for animals like tigers and lions who need vet care? You don't kill an animal because they are acting out fear or anxiety. It sounds more like it will take some work and exposure to help the dog learn new behavior? You mentioned the dog worked through some behaviors in the past? Obviously, you figured out what the dog needed? Trust yourself. There are other vets. There are other trainers. I had a trainer tell me I was not the right owner for my GSD. I decided to become the owner she needed. Solid K9 Training has many connections throughout the country. Ask for some recommendations on their Facebook or Twitter account. Solid K9, Jeff Gellmann and Leerburg have many free videos on training to eliminate these behaviors. You've addressed this with other problem behaviors, you can figure this one out too with the right support.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

newlie said:


> I agree with looking for another vet and trainer. I don't know if any of these ideas would help, just throwing them out.
> 
> What about training your dog to wear a muzzle in the event you think he might misbehave? People on here can recommend the best kind and how to get your pup used to it so it becomes a non-issue. I would have no trouble agreeing to a muzzle for my Newlie if someone was apprehensive about handling him. After all, they don't want to get bit, and who can blame them? Vets/surgeons have usually been OK examining Newlie without a muzzle if I (or someone) hold his head.
> 
> ...


I don't mind having him wear a muzzle if that makes a vet feel more comfortable.


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## newlie (Feb 12, 2013)

I just went back in and edited my post. With the right vet, it might not even be needed.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

LBethO said:


> WTH? Euthanized? Um, what do they suggest for animals like tigers and lions who need vet care? You don't kill an animal because they are acting out fear or anxiety. It sounds more like it will take some work and exposure to help the dog learn new behavior? You mentioned the dog worked through some behaviors in the past? Obviously, you figured out what the dog needed? Trust yourself. There are other vets. There are other trainers. I had a trainer tell me I was not the right owner for my GSD. I decided to become the owner she needed. Solid K9 Training has many connections throughout the country. Ask for some recommendations on their Facebook or Twitter account. Solid K9, Jeff Gellmann and Leerburg have many free videos on training to eliminate these behaviors. You've addressed this with other problem behaviors, you can figure this one out too with the right support.


Thank you! Yes, he had severe separation anxiety, but I figured out that he didn't like being crated. I began leaving him in our mud room area, which is quite large with a window, with just a gate propped up against the wall. He's been fine ever since and will lay in there even when we are home if he wants to relax. He could easily push the gate over, but never does. 
He used to lunge at dogs while we were on walks, but just walks past them now, unless they are lunging towards him and then he just gets worked up and puts his hair up. I don't let him get close enough for a squabble.


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I had a dog that got increasingly more aggressive at the vet's office. He was a rescue and had no tolerance for our vet. So I muzzled and gave him a sedative for each visit. He was fine when we managed him


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

LuvShepherds said:


> I had a dog that got increasingly more aggressive at the vet's office. He was a rescue and had no tolerance for our vet. So I muzzled and gave him a sedative for each visit. He was fine when we managed him


He was only aggressive at the Vet office?


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Can you give more information about what happened with the trainer that led to them saying the dog should be euthanized? How many times did you see this trainer, where were the appointments? What did the dog do during the appointments?

Some extremely reward only trainers will recommend euthanasia for a dog that won't take food and does not want to fit into the limited repertoire.

Are you unable or unwilling to follow through with training appointments, pay for training...ect?

Jeff Gellman would not be my first choice for whose videos to watch.


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I agree. Muzzle train your dog. Find a new vet. (Though I would NOT go to the one recommended here). And find a good trainer. 

I am not scared to recommend euthanasia, but based on what you described, this does not sound warranted.


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## cloudpump (Oct 20, 2015)

ameliejo said:


> We are in Michigan, 20 minutes south of Flint.


 @onyx'girl is in Michigan, maybe send her a pm to see if she might know a decent trainer close to you?


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Can you give more information about what happened with the trainer that led to them saying the dog should be euthanized? How many times did you see this trainer, where were the appointments? What did the dog do during the appointments?
> 
> Some extremely reward only trainers will recommend euthanasia for a dog that won't take food and does not want to fit into the limited repertoire.
> 
> ...


I attended puppy classes with my dog at the trainer's home. There were 3-4 classes and my dog was extremely nervous the whole time, although he did listen and wasn't aggressive to the other dogs unless one of them tried to sniff his bottom. It was very cramped quarters with lots of dogs and I'm not sure either of us got much out of the classes. I trained my older shepherd professionally the first two years of his life, so I was familiar with training. I took my dog back over to the trainer's house about a year later, after the disasterous vet appointment, to get her opinion on whether she felt my dog was aggressive and what may have caused him to react so poorly. She let him run around her yard, where he was very nervous, had diarrhea, growled a little bit and was afraid of a bucket. After we were there for about 45 minutes, my dog felt so comfortable with her that he tried to kiss her and crawl into her lap. At the time, which was a few months ago, she told me that she felt he was very fearful, but not aggressive. She also observed him playing with my daughter and said that she was very encouraged by their interaction because he never tried to dominate her and was very gentle with her. So, today, after I spoke to the vet again about her advice on having him put to sleep, I callled the trainer and was shocked that she agreed with the vet! She said that she felt he was "hard wired" and that I would never change his fearful personality with training. That it was genetic.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> Can you give more information about what happened with the trainer that led to them saying the dog should be euthanized? How many times did you see this trainer, where were the appointments? What did the dog do during the appointments?
> 
> Some extremely reward only trainers will recommend euthanasia for a dog that won't take food and does not want to fit into the limited repertoire.
> 
> ...


I am very willing to pay for training.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

We have people at our home quite often because my husband holds training classes here. My dog is perfectly behaved with visitors and several of the trainees continue to ask how my dog is doing when my husband sees them at work. One of them even mailed my dog two gigantic bones. I just can't imagine putting a dog like that to sleep!


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

I guess it all comes down to what your expectations are with your dog. Do you want to take him places? Do you want to do sport or competitions with him? Do you want him to be comfortable in large groups? 

A fearful dog can be genetically hard wired that way. But can be managed if he is kept in his comfort zones. He can also be trained not to respond to fearful stimuli. But that wil take a very experienced trainer. 

I think expectations need to managed.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

gsdsar said:


> I guess it all comes down to what your expectations are with your dog. Do you want to take him places? Do you want to do sport or competitions with him? Do you want him to be comfortable in large groups?
> 
> A fearful dog can be genetically hard wired that way. But can be managed if he is kept in his comfort zones. He can also be trained not to respond to fearful stimuli. But that wil take a very experienced trainer.
> 
> I think expectations need to managed.


I would just like to be able to take him in the car for rides to school with my daughter, for a walk in the park and to the vet. I don't need him to go on vacations with us, although that would be nice, or go to the store. He is comfortable in large groups. We have had several parties with 30+ people of all ages and he is perfectly comfortable. He's just a pet, not a show dog.


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## Magwart (Jul 8, 2012)

Find out what vet your local police K9 team and/or GS rescue uses. That vet will be very comfortable around GSDs. You'll not only get someone who is calm and confident around the breed, but who knows their issues and can give you a much better read on temperament than a vet who _perhaps_ only sees GSDs once in a great while and is maybe even secretly a little scared of them. That vet will also probably know which trainer to use (the local rescue people may too).


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

ameliejo said:


> He was only aggressive at the Vet office?


No, he bit someone who grabbed his face, too. He didn't like being grabbed and restrained unless he knew the person.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Backwoods K9 is in White Lake, good group of trainers there. I'd look them up for help. 
My female Onyx cannot be vetted without a muzzle, she is very aggressive with vetting. Besides using the muzzle, I also cover her eyes with a towel when she gets examined and for blood draws, it does help to calm her. I handle her for all procedures.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

onyx'girl said:


> Backwoods K9 is in White Lake, good group of trainers there. I'd look them up for help.
> My female Onyx cannot be vetted without a muzzle, she is very aggressive with vetting. Besides using the muzzle, I also cover her eyes with a towel when she gets examined and for blood draws, it does help to calm her. I handle her for all procedures.


So, it seems that dogs acting fearful or aggressive at the vet is not uncommon. My vet made me feel as if my dog's behavior is unusual.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

ameliejo said:


> So, it seems that dogs acting fearful or aggressive at the vet is not uncommon. My vet made me feel as if my dog's behavior is unusual.


My vet did too, when Onyx went all whale eyed(this was after she was spayed) and got really reactive aggressive. They vet would not come back into the room. This was the first time Onyx showed that behavior and it was pretty surprising to me, too. Vet suggested behaviorist, but not euth.
I switched vets but Onyx still had issues with women(most vets are women) and I always go when there is a guy tech on...he isn't afraid and knows I can hold my dog. He also has a GSD, so is quite patient and calm with Onyx. 
When a vet or tech shows fear, Onyx will feed off that and then become more reactive aggressive. One reason I do cover here eyes, so that she cannot read the emotions on the person drawing blood, etc.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm so glad that my vet is totally blase about normal dog behavior. Cassidy used to bark every time anyone entered the room, and she would bark even hearing the vet's voice from another room. Not a single person there batted an eye. One time the vet was in the room with us going over her chart and someone came up to the dutch door to ask him a question. Cassidy of course, barked. He simply patted her side absentmindedly as he continued reading and said "good girl, just doing your job". 

Keefer has air snapped a couple of times during blood draws, and again - no big deal. In fact, they have nothing but nice things to say about my dogs, which is really nice. They understand that being at the vets is a stressful experience and don't freak out.


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## Stevenzachsmom (Mar 3, 2008)

No need to euth. a dog you can manage. I never have a problem with any of my dogs being muzzled at the vet. None of my dogs have ever shown aggression at the vets' but if I know they feel bad, or the examination may be painful, I prefer to take the precaution.

I hope you are able to find competent people who can guide you through this.


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

ameliejo said:


> I'll look that up, thanks!


Uh, no. Way better vets than that are out there!


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## Irie (Aug 31, 2016)

ameliejo said:


> So, it seems that dogs acting fearful or aggressive at the vet is not uncommon. My vet made me feel as if my dog's behavior is unusual.


Every single dog that comes in to our hospital is afraid. Very afraid.

Many in the field will judge by breed or whatever. Dogs are dogs. Medical stuff scares them, and it sucks (being poked with needles, having people staring at you and manipulating your body parts, have things put up your butt, people looking in your mouth and pressing on gums that often have dental disease, being lifted up onto a table and have a loud machine happen and be expected to be perfectly still [xrays], etc etc), it is all understandable. 

Sedation is a kindness for the dogs who do not submissively tolerate it (many do, and they are taken for granted!)


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I understand the muzzle, but not sedation. How can a vet properly examine a dog that is sedated? We look at more than bloodwork and x-rays. We look at behavior changes and we press on places to see where the pain is. 

My dogs don't have a problem with vets, which does make life easier. A few times I have suggested a muzzle if something is going to be very painful or scary. Then as soon as it is over, I pull the muzzle off and let the dog interact with the staff. Sometimes I ask that they give my dog a treat, if my dog put up with something painful or scary, like getting their infected ears scoped out. 

We have expectations for dogs. We all do. We watched Lassie growing up and the idea of having a large dog run along next to us without any lead, protecting us from unknown dangers -- well at least I had that expectation, or most of it, there under the surface. We see people with two big dogs walking nicely on lead -- yep want my dogs to do that. And we get a puppy or two, and we find that when they are together they are crazy. We don't always notice that those two dogs, one is 12 and the other is 6, and their owner has been hiking that way twice a day for 12 years. We see dogs at a show doing agility and we think, "That looks fun!" And we go and get a breed that can do agility. We start the puppy, and it is just not an agility dog. 

I have a bunch of dogs, and it is easy for me to cater my expectations for the dog to the dog's temperament and strengths. The good news is that most of us do not rely on our dog's abilities. If we are raising wool on the hoof, and our dog is prey-driven, and unable to fulfill the roll of shepherd, and unsafe around the sheep, then we would have to find the dog a new home. If we need a service dog, and the dog chases cars every time he sees one -- that isn't going to work. Most of us can accept the dog, limitations and all, and relax and take a reasonable approach at dealing with what we believe can be improved upon. 

Kind of reminds me of the serenity prayer:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change about my dog,
The courage (maybe patience and persistence would be better) to change the things I can change about my dog, 
And the wisdom to know the difference. 

I would have little confidence in the vet or trainer that told me to euthanize a dog for the behaviors you describe. 

Good luck.


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## Dracovich (Feb 24, 2017)

Vets are NOT behaviorists and their education does not go as far as behavior and dog psychology, and what their education does cover is pretty basic. This is a question for a balanced trainer who works with aggression. A Sch trainer is often suggested because aggression is often necessary and sought after in protection training, it can be molded into desirable behavior. These trainers know how to work with aggression to get the desired result.

To me personally, the issues you described seemed mild and easily manageable with proper handling and muzzled vet visits. I have switched vets before because of vets being too timid and not knowledgeable of large 'aggressive' breeds. I've always felt like if people are going to have predators as pets we have to be accepting of some predatory actions, even prey will bite when they feel threatened. Vet visits can be extremely stressful, barking dogs, a million strange smells, seeing ill animals, top that off with a vet that cannot confidently handle an aggressive dog and your dog will become very insecure and uncertain of what is going on. 

Your dog did not viciously attack anyone, or even midly attack anyone, euth seems pretty extreme, especially in a breed where leeriness of strangers is desirable. Get a good muzzle for added safety, new vet new trainer.


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## Dunkirk (May 7, 2015)

I have a vet that does home visits, wondering if that is an available option for you.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Get a new vet and a new trainer. There are Many German shepherds don't make the best patients and one can not judge the complete character of dog at a vet visit. Especially if they are in pain. They are a dog that do not freely trust, not keen to have a stranger examining them and very receptive to energy and smells. Every time i go to the vet there seems to be many gsds wearing muzzles. It does not mean they are bad dogs or should be put to sleep just crazy patients. Stay away from vets that are uncomfortable around your dog and find a vet who is not put off by some unnecessary bad behavior and naturally comfortable around German shepherds. 

Our first Gsd was a nightmare at the vet with nail trims. We were told by the previous owners he had to be muzzled at vet visits. Shots and stuff he was fine with but anything to do with his feet was rough. He did not like his paws to be touched all. Tranquilizer and a muzzle and a few techs to hold him down- it took a few men to hold our dog down even in his old age. We did this as least often as possible was a painful process for all. He was an excellent dog though in every other aspect. We were happy with the vet and the handling they did with him- they got it done and at the same time did not scorn us or make us think we had a crazy dog- he just was a crazy patient.


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## Sabis mom (Mar 20, 2014)

ameliejo said:


> I have a black GSD who will be two in July. Last Fall, during a vet visit, my dog refused to be examined, growled and tried to bite the Vet. He was fine with her until she tried to examine him, albeit very nervous. We had been to the same vet before without an issue. He has a few behavior issues - he isn't good in the car, is fearful when we take him away from the house and he is aggressive/fearful of anyone wearing a helmet. He's very well behaved with visitors and children. He's playful and loving toward my 8 year old daughter. Has no food aggression and gets along well with my 11 year old shepherd. We have had him since he was 7 weeks old. He used to be aggressive while on the leash and had separation anxiety, however he has grown out of both those issues. He goes for daily walks and gets lots of attention. My vet feels that he is dominant aggressive and feels that he should be euthanized. A local trainer feels that he has fear aggression and should be euthanized. I took him to the trainer to work on the separation anxiety and bad behavior in the car. I don't know what to do. I don't think that he is a danger to anyone in our family or neighbors. I don't like his behavior at the vet, although I do feel that they shouldn't have tried to examine him when they saw that he was so scared that he was trying to crawl in my lap. We genuinely want to keep the dog, but the vet and trainer have me very scared.
> Any advice is appreciated.


Wow. Your dog sounds a lot like mine. Shadow is sweet affectionate and playful with everyone. At home.
Take her anywhere and she is a different dog. Snaps and growls at vets. Is terrible with other dogs. Hates car rides.
At about 2 or 3 I gave up on the forced twice daily marches and kept her at home where she was happy. 
I found a vet that isn't afraid of her and told the trainers to beat it.
She will be 7 this year and we do just fine. I muzzle her off the property and she is sedated for annual vet examines. 
Find a different vet and if the trainers in your area are anything like those near me you will be better served to use the internet and this forum and go it alone.


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## Breaker's mom (May 27, 2008)

You need a new vet! I have a shep that never had a problem at the vets. Blood drawn, needles, all the other poking and prodding that typically occurs at the annual checkup. 

This is a multi vet practice as most of them are, still he had always taken it in stride. Then one day a vet walked in, said two sentences to me, walked to Milo and grabbed his head to examine his teeth. He growled. I had never heard this dog growl before. She never did examine his teeth. When it came time to draw blood she took him out of the room! I had also never had this done before.

Hind sight is always 20/20. Thinking back I have to wonder if she was afraid of the dog initially and that caused her abrupt and inappropriate behavior. Certainly before you get close and personal with a pup you should introduce yourself first? 

Needless to say, I now go to a different vet whose approach and thinking is much more like mine anyway.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

ameliejo said:


> I attended puppy classes with my dog at the trainer's home. There were 3-4 classes and my dog was extremely nervous the whole time, although he did listen and wasn't aggressive to the other dogs unless one of them tried to sniff his bottom. It was very cramped quarters with lots of dogs and I'm not sure either of us got much out of the classes. I trained my older shepherd professionally the first two years of his life, so I was familiar with training. I took my dog back over to the trainer's house about a year later, after the disasterous vet appointment, to get her opinion on whether she felt my dog was aggressive and what may have caused him to react so poorly. She let him run around her yard, where he was very nervous, had diarrhea, growled a little bit and was afraid of a bucket. After we were there for about 45 minutes, my dog felt so comfortable with her that he tried to kiss her and crawl into her lap. At the time, which was a few months ago, she told me that she felt he was very fearful, but not aggressive. She also observed him playing with my daughter and said that she was very encouraged by their interaction because he never tried to dominate her and was very gentle with her. So, today, after I spoke to the vet again about her advice on having him put to sleep, I callled the trainer and was shocked that she agreed with the vet! She said that she felt he was "hard wired" and that I would never change his fearful personality with training. That it was genetic.


From this description, your trainer does not sound especially competent. Your puppy was terrified at puppy class, why were other puppys allowed to sniff its butt?

He probably is genetically fearful. That doesn't mean training won't work, but it does mean it's an uphill battle and you will likely have to manage some stuff you can't fix.

Vetting is super hard to train for. I actually just had a conversation with my vet about it this morning. And this was while my girl napped on the floor---she has at times become pretty avoidant of the vet but what I noticed with her was that the more comfortable I am there, the more comfortable and tolerant she is. I've had a few vets I didn't like and who didn't like me, and shocker, those were the ones she did poorly with too.

My current vet is such a mellow guy, he just does not get dramatic about anything, and he is perfect for us. It only sucks that he was the last one I tried in this area because I could have been a lot happier, a lot sooner. How you get along with your vet, and how your vet's bedside manner with the dogs is, is important. 

OP, I encourage you to try hard to find a really good balanced trainer, and see what you can do with this dog. In the mean time, take all reasonable precautions with muzzling anywhere it may be an issue.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Breaker's mom said:


> You need a new vet! I have a shep that never had a problem at the vets. Blood drawn, needles, all the other poking and prodding that typically occurs at the annual checkup.
> 
> This is a multi vet practice as most of them are, still he had always taken it in stride. Then one day a vet walked in, said two sentences to me, walked to Milo and grabbed his head to examine his teeth. He growled. I had never heard this dog growl before. She never did examine his teeth. When it came time to draw blood she took him out of the room! I had also never had this done before.
> 
> ...


The vet was afraid of Mars and approached him cautiously. The exam room is very small and he was backed into a corner next to me. He growled at her and, when she persisted, snapped at her. Honestly, if he truly wanted to bite her, he would have. Then, he tried hiding behind me. Then, she called two vet techs in who tried to hold him down so that he could be examined. That's when he tried to crawl in my lap. Then, they brought a muzzle out and he let them put it on him, but once it was on, he thrashed around the room. 
Looking back on it, I should have stopped everything when he snapped at the vet. By the time they stopped trying to examine him, I was in tears and Mars was shaking and hiding under my legs. I felt like I was in shock because I had never witnessed this behavior from him before. 
I have an older shepherd who is extremely laid back and, before him, I had yorkies. I really didn't know what to do, but shouldn't the vet have known how to handle this situation before it escalated? She's supposed to be the expert on dogs?
We have taken him to the park with no problems. He's fine on walks after daily training on the leash. Dogs, who are not leashed, have run up to him and he hasn't fought or tried to bite them, even though he is in a stance where he's ready if the other dog persists. I would like to work with a trainer so that I can take him in the car by myself.


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## ameliejo (Jul 14, 2015)

Thecowboysgirl said:


> From this description, your trainer does not sound especially competent. Your puppy was terrified at puppy class, why were other puppys allowed to sniff its butt?
> 
> He probably is genetically fearful. That doesn't mean training won't work, but it does mean it's an uphill battle and you will likely have to manage some stuff you can't fix.
> 
> ...


The class was in her basement, where she does boarding. There wasn't much room to move around and there were quite a few dogs packed into a small space.


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## Dotbat215 (Aug 19, 2015)

​

> The class was in her basement, where she does boarding. There wasn't much room to move around...The vet was afraid of Mars and approached him cautiously. The exam room is very small and he was backed into a corner next to me.


Sounds like that might be part of the issue? ​


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Find a holistic vet who isn't rushed and who has the patience to slowly let a dog warm up to them. I left a vet who has tiny exam rooms and is always rushed and anxious. My dogs hated going there.


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## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Assuming the dog wasn't trained to wear a muzzle prior to that incident, a fair amount of the thrashing around could have been fighting the muzzle, having nothing to do with aggression toward people. 

But a Baskerville and look it up on youtube how to teach your dog to wear it using treats. You'll probably need it again in this dog's life and if the dog can wear it calmly you're way ahead of the game.

You got a recommendation of a trainer so try them and see how it goes. Try to find a vet who is patient and makes you feel comfortable.


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## karlakinsky (Jan 11, 2017)

You are not alone. 

I just took my 8 month old male to the vet today. He was very scared and shaking in the lobby. A little scared of the female tech that came out and took his picture, but he did warm up to her a bit. Same with the other female tech that took us back to the exam room. He was on alert with every thing. As we waited in the room for 30 minutes, he became relaxed and mellow, and was laying down, then the vet came in. The vet is very tall, and a male, and my pup jumped up and started growling and barking at him. He finally calmed down and the vet pulled out some treats...he took them from his hand. Then went back for more. Then all of a sudden, the vet had a treat and kind of lunged toward my pup, over his head, and my dog freaked out and lunged, tried to bite his hand, and barked. Then he ran and hid by me and kept growling and barking. I was shocked, as I have never seen him do this. The vet just said, "that is not good". And then said we had to muzzle him. I know he did not like the way the vet came over his head so quickly. He was taking the treats when they were offered below his head...and was being quite behaved, until that. I think the vet let his guard down too quickly. 

The vet let me put the muzzle on him myself, and he then examined him. After that, my dog laid by me and the vet had me take the muzzle off. He was fine and no longer barked or growled. In the end as we were leaving, the vet gave him another treat out of his had and he took it gently and fine. Any thoughts from anyone on how I can handle this? Obviously I will be bringing a muzzle from now on to the vets. 

He is kenneled every now and then and the dog kennel has never mentioned any aggressive behavior from him.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

Luckily my vet used to have GSDs so his is familiar with how they can behave. Around 8 months it seems some dogs can go through another fear period. One of mine did. With lots of patience and an understanding vet you can over come this to a point. I prefer to leave my dog in the car at our vet (we have screened windows so I can lower them all the way down, and I watch from the door) if there are other animals in the waiting room. Since both have been left for surgeries and such, neither like the vet, even if we go in just to get a weigh in. We just try to stay calm and confident and try to give them "breathing room".


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## karlakinsky (Jan 11, 2017)

car2ner said:


> Luckily my vet used to have GSDs so his is familiar with how they can behave. Around 8 months it seems some dogs can go through another fear period. .


My vet mentioned this, before the lunging and trying to bite. He said with GSDs he sees a fear thing around 7-8 months. But then he went on to let his guard down and come over his head...at the end, he even said, I think he saw that as my trying to be dominant. Well, why did he do that??? He knew my dog was a bit freaked about being at the vet! And especially with a tall, scary looking male.


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## car2ner (Apr 9, 2014)

karlakinsky said:


> Well, why did he do that??? He knew my dog was a bit freaked about being at the vet! And especially with a tall, scary looking male.


People get busy, start thinking about the next patient, forgot to have their morning coffee, are trying to remember something from your past visit, etc. It may look like a person is paying close attention but may have their mind partly elsewhere. That is when having a sharp vet tech who isn't afraid to step in and help or say something is an asset. 

If this is a one time thing, as annoying as it is, I'd over look it and work on re-establishing a sense of calm at the vet. If it happens again, it might be time to go looking for another dog-doctor.


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## Bridget01 (Jun 27, 2016)

Heidi bit our vet once. He never held it against her. Didn't even make her wear a muzzle (and I wouldn't have blamed him one bit) as long as I felt I could hold her head. The only evidence that he held a grudge was when I asked if she should have a dental exam/cleaning, he said "her teeth are fine" and that was the end of that.


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## Massastar (Nov 13, 2020)

Don't listen to the vet, your dog just needs a lot of attention and care


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

This thread is from 2017.


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