# Talk about a true black sable... wow!



## EMH (Jul 28, 2014)

Haven't seen a dog like this in quite some time...

Bruno vom Wallensener Hof ? working-dog


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

most people call this a black sable .......but WAY too much red on him to really be a black sable....he is gorgeous for sure!

Lee


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)




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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

nope . A black sable appears to be almost black looking with only some smudging around the eyes .


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

when black sables pups are born they appear to be solid black -- only till weeks later will you start to see some tan around the eyes 
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/breed-standard/144299-black-sable-2.html

SG Grando Mecklenburger Buffel

and his daughter -- in her summer coat , at her lightest 

full image.


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Bruno is a stunning looking dog!


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## Nynole1 (Dec 21, 2013)

On the color topic, my guy (almost 5 months) is a sable, correct?


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## RZZNSTR (Jan 24, 2015)

Appears so!


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## Nynole1 (Dec 21, 2013)

RZZNSTR said:


> Appears so!


Thanks RZZ!


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## Chai (Dec 11, 2014)

Ahh yes, this handsome guy has been bred in a working kennel in my state in Oz last year. The GSD community is relatively young and small (but growing) in Australia and so an aesthetic eye catcher like this guy doesn't go unnoticed


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Tbh, the "black sable" thing kind of nauseates me...sable is sable...just varying shades that may or may not indicate what recessive they carry. Sure, some are beautiful, but so are some dogs of every color. Breeding "for" "black sable" is something that drives me crazy. I know of no one who admits it, but there are so many breeders bragging on color descriptions and little else in their ads. 

I have people drooling over this dog all the time. Sure, I love her. Sure, she's a great dog. But her color is not what makes her a great dog.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I totally agree Eisenherz.

The allele for black sable seems to be some particular to the DDR dogs -- one dog that comes to mind , that I bred to and that was Rex Ludwigseck -- The pups were just like him . I believe his brother Ron was black sable. 

Rex vom Ludwigseck

Generally what people do call black sable is a dark , well pigmented sable . As you say sable is sable . As long as the pigment is strong . 
On the other hand there are dogs that are called sable , when they are in fact very washed out black and tans . 

by the way that is one gorgeous dog that you have there !!
Love the avatar too.


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you, Carmen. The bitch in my avatar is the "black"  sable's dam. 

She is a lesser dog because she is bicolor. :laugh: 

Here's a male I have, sable with a bicolor recessive. Same inferior bicolor dam.  Now, his legs are lighter but his body is almost solid black (appearing- of course his hairs are black tipped and tan at the base).

He is predominantly West German. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2053842-dallas-vom-eisenherz


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## SiegersMom (Apr 19, 2011)

vom Eisenherz said:


> Tbh, the "black sable" thing kind of nauseates me...sable is sable...just varying shades that may or may not indicate what recessive they carry. Sure, some are beautiful, but so are some dogs of every color. Breeding "for" "black sable" is something that drives me crazy. I know of no one who admits it, but there are so many breeders bragging on color descriptions and little else in their ads.
> 
> I have people drooling over this dog all the time. Sure, I love her. Sure, she's a great dog. But her color is not what makes her a great dog.


There is so much variation in the sable color I do not have a problem with the term black sable or dark or light to describe the color but you are correct...sable is sable. Your dog is beautiful...the lesser bi colors too...lol., bi-color is my second favorite color. I do get annoyed when I see breeders list black sable pups that are nice rich color but not dark enough to be considered black. But since black sable is the new hot color they all want to claim to have them.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

carmspack said:


> I totally agree Eisenherz.
> 
> The allele for black sable seems to be some particular to the DDR dogs -- one dog that comes to mind , that I bred to and that was Rex Ludwigseck -- The pups were just like him . I believe his brother Ron was black sable.
> 
> ...


Hey Rex is Kopper's grandaddy! While Kopper is definitely a well-pigmented sable (along with being the smartest and best dog in the world) I don't think he's a "black sable." 



Incidentally I'd love to find another dog exactly like this one. . .


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## vom Eisenherz (Feb 13, 2012)

There is no "true black sable", unless someone is using it as a descriptive for a sable carrying a black recessive, or maybe I have missed some important scientific discovery. As far as I know, there is no quantifiable test or definition. Just very very dark sable. That's what bugs me about this "true black sable" marketing stuff. There is no marked DNA difference- just darker and darkest sable. Big deal. Breed a dark sable to a nice, rich bicolor (as in my example) and you get pups who look like Aria- big deal. Pigment is a good thing- but getting obsessed with color is not a good thing.


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## Basia (Oct 7, 2011)

vom Eisenherz said:


> There is no "true black sable", unless someone is using it as a descriptive for a sable carrying a black recessive


Although I agree that sable is sable, I was under the impression that this is the case (at least from the descriptions on breeder websites that I have read and then gone back to the pedigrees to see a lot of black).

What about dogs who are all black but eventually develop sable hairs between the toes that make their way up the inner thigh and back of the arms? What would that be, genetically? Black sable with recessive bicolor genes?


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## RunShepherdRun (Oct 5, 2009)

Götz vom Gräfental had the smudging around the eyes, his body and head were 'black sable' colored, but his legs were tan: 
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=40043-gotz-vom-grafental


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Basia said:


> Although I agree that sable is sable, I was under the impression that this is the case (at least from the descriptions on breeder websites that I have read and then gone back to the pedigrees to see a lot of black).
> 
> What about dogs who are all black but eventually develop sable hairs between the toes that make their way up the inner thigh and back of the arms? What would that be, genetically? Black sable with recessive bicolor genes?


Still solid black. It's not sable hairs. It's bleedthrough.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Emoore said:


> Hey Rex is Kopper's grandaddy! While Kopper is definitely a well-pigmented sable (along with being the smartest and best dog in the world) I don't think he's a "black sable."
> 
> 
> 
> Incidentally I'd love to find another dog exactly like this one. . .


I have one pretty much the same....would take a clone of him in a heartbeat and he is not a 'black sable' either, lol


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## Debanneball (Aug 28, 2014)

onyx'girl said:


> I have one pretty much the same....would take a clone of him in a heartbeat and he is not a 'black sable' either, lol


Very nice looking dog! So attentive!


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## GatorDog (Aug 17, 2011)

My female, in full coat, is very dark. I have not referred to her as a black sable, though. 

6/1/14 by Alexis Roy, on Flickr


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## gsdsar (May 21, 2002)

My boy is a dark sable. I consider him a black sable, but don't describe him that way. It's just in my head.














Never sure where that line is? And don't want to fall into some weird advertising trap nomenclature( pretty sure I am not using that word right) 

Gatordog, you girl is gorgeous. I just adore her!!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Debanneball said:


> Very nice looking dog! So attentive!


thanks, it was raining when we were trialing so he was getting a nice eyewash. This is my 5 month old pup(at the time of photo), his coat came in much darker than I expected, we'll see how it changes as he matures. Not a black sable either.


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## Bella67 (Jun 22, 2014)

Gambit is gorgeous though!


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Gambit is so handsome. Seger was no where near as dark as Gambit at that age and he's fairly dark now. I bet Gambit gets darker still.


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