# Covy Tucker Hill kennels in Cotati



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Can anyone give me any reviews on this breeder. 
I am a bug fan of the German show line and already have a 6.5 yr old. 
I was looking at the more black American line but does anyone know anything about the breeder?
Ive read mix reviews and before I pick up puppy tomorrow I'd like to be kind of reassure myself. 
Temperament supposedly the American line is more suited as a pet which is what we're looking for. 
But I am a bigger fan of the German working for and German show line look with that red tint. 
My dog now:









The one I'm looking at 









Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Thats a CTH puppy? You're picking him up tomorrow?


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

They are American Show Lines and they produce many winners if you plan to show in Conformation. I met one of their dogs. It was low on the hocks in the rear legs and extremely high energy. He had a huge list of titles. There are pictures at the link.

Covy Tucker Hill German Shepherd Breeders - About Covy-Tucker Hill


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> Thats a CTH puppy? You're picking him up tomorrow?


yes i left a small deposit but i just want to make sure its a reputable place if im looking for just a companion for me and my wife


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> They are American Show Lines and they produce many winners if you plan to show in Conformation. I met one of their dogs. It was low on the hocks in the rear legs and extremely high energy. He had a huge list of titles. There are pictures at the link.
> 
> Covy Tucker Hill German Shepherd Breeders - About Covy-Tucker Hill


yes they seem to have lots of titles 
the one that picked us or so we felt, has a slight over bite which is why she said they cant sell her for more but with a regular bite she said shed be the pick of the litter 
i had an american line growing up and he had horrible hips but my german line now is perfectly healthy. little jumpy sometimes.
im looking for health and temperament


----------



## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

Covy Tucker Hill has been breeding for decades. They bred the only Westminster BIS GSD .


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Another pic. we really like her paws


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

that is Covy Tucker Hill ?

which of the ladies is still actively breeding.

I can't believe that this is their facility.

they have been breeding for decades , likely 40 years or more , they ruled the American show ring .
I owned direct descendants (early 80's) handled them and others in the show ring 

the puppy -- why do you like the paws ? I can't tell if he is down in the pastern or not
but the croup is steep and the dog has sickle hocks (from what I see in that picture)

do not choose a dog for colour


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Covy Tucker Hill German Shepherd Breeders - Current Litters at Covy-Tucker Hill

sire's rear -- Abercrombie "Fitch"

http://www.covy-tuckerhill.com/puppies/show_prospects pretty extreme ! 

I think their best stock was when they had Cobert's and Lakeside's lines


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

She is the Stevie and Wildfire puppies. 
Do you think the dogs will have hip problems as they grow up?
At this point I am unsure whether to continue with the purchase. I'm in no rush at all. 
I personally like the German show/work line better but I've read the American line has a little less drive and better in obedience. But I know each dog is different. 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

I like the size of her paws. She was also very.... I'd say thick in bone. Structure 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

What was her temperament like when you saw her? Was she confident and curious? Or timid and a little apprehensive about meeting you?


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

If you are set on this puppy and are wildly excited about her, get her. If you aren't sure and you prefer other lines for good reasons, not just because people here prefer them, then wait. This is a very popular kennel for ASL and they have no trouble selling their dogs, so they will find another buyer.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Very confident. Very playful. Wandered. And then as soon as I bent down or made a sound she'd come right over. 
There was another one that wanted our attention in the kennel but once she was let loose she just seemed to mind her own business. 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Barcagp said:


> Very confident. Very playful. Wandered. And then as soon as I bent down or made a sound she'd come right over.
> There was another one that wanted our attention in the kennel but once she was let loose she just seemed to mind her own business.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


I don't know about this puppy, but the one I met outside the show ring was very hyper. So they can breed high energy dogs.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

I know the breed is high energy but I don't want over the top either 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> If you are set on this puppy and are wildly excited about her, get her. If you aren't sure and you prefer other lines for good reasons, not just because people here prefer them, then wait. This is a very popular kennel for ASL and they have no trouble selling their dogs, so they will find another buyer.


I prefer other lines for looks but I don't think it's what my wife and I need right now. It is the only reason I looked at the ASL. We have a small home and I wanted one mostly for my wife when I travel for work. I've grown up with Shepherd so trust they're instinct and also know that the dog will alert my wife of anything suspicious around our home. 
It was a Shepherd or a gun  jk 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

I don't see any around like I used to. Everyone I ever met was always a little timid, but the owners liked them. They were the washouts from what they wanted to be shown. At one time I think there were 3-4 right around here. The only thing I would want to question is the dams ofa listing. There's almost 800 Covy Tucker Hill dogs listed, but I can't find her and Its just kinda curious how so many of the dogs have ofa as part of their online pedigree, but some of them now, don't.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> I don't see any around like I used to. Everyone I ever met was always a little timid, but the owners liked them. They were the washouts from what they wanted to be shown. At one time I think there were 3-4 right around here. The only thing I would want to question is the dams ofa listing. There's almost 800 Covy Tucker Hill dogs listed, but I can't find her and Its just kinda curious how so many of the dogs have ofa as part of their online pedigree, but some of them now, don't.


Interesting. They definitely did have lots of dogs. I saw at least 12 males. 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

carmspack said:


> that is Covy Tucker Hill ?
> 
> which of the ladies is still actively breeding.
> 
> ...


That part in red Barcagp, would make me wonder. I could be completely off base here, but are younger relatives now cutting some corners here and there? Its possible I just can't find the listings, ofa's website can be kinda goofy, but that's something I'd want to verify.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> That part in red Barcagp, would make me wonder. I could be completely off base here, but are younger relatives now cutting some corners here and there? Its possible I just can't find the listings, ofa's website can be kinda goofy, but that's something I'd want to verify.


They showed me the mom and they told me she was retired as of the last litter 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Have you told the breeders what you where looking for. It is such a big decision and Im sure you don't want to feel rushed so it's good to ask questions. Are there references the kennel can give to maybe you can talk to people that own dogs from them. It's a very well know kennel. Ask about the OFAXrays. Did you meet the dam and sire and their other dogs. How did you like them. We have a asl incredibly happy with him. Friendly to people who we welcome in the house. now he is getting older very aloof to people we see in the streets. He is the type of dog that will not hide behind the couch if someone broke in. Great watch dog and incredibly energetic and focused. He is a lot of dog and we need to do much with him. He is sound and people still will stop in their cars and compliments all the time. We got him from a breeder who have some great winning show lined in his pedigree and my dog is still completely sound and not over angulated. I have seen some timid asl out their but also timid some timid/unsure working lines also they are out there. We had a working line that was incredibly confident and stable he had drive but was not over the top in the least. He started developing arthritis when he was about 8 or until he was 12 it took over. Two different personalities one more serious then the other. Both great dogs though. Our asl Max is dog reactive and is our challenge. I really love this dog to pieces and has such a incredibly personality it is was truly wins me over. He is a dark sable.


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

That's fine, it gave you a chance to see her temperament, but it doesn't have anything to do with her hips. You asked about whether you should be concerned about hips. Verifying the parents having good hips is the first thing to check.


----------



## Thecowboysgirl (Nov 30, 2006)

Jenny720 do you mind saying where your asl is from?


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Sure he is from Woodhaven's kennel in Southampton New Jersey - Jessica Torres is the breeder. He is a grandson of megabucks out of woodsides kennels. Both of Max's parents are very moderate.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Steve Strom said:


> That's fine, it gave you a chance to see her temperament, but it doesn't have anything to do with her hips. You asked about whether you should be concerned about hips. Verifying the parents having good hips is the first thing to check.


Now I met both parents. The mom was very reactive to us barking incessantly. The dad was very friendly. Big. 
However I didn't actually interact with them. They were fenced. 
My last dog I interacted with both parents. No fences. 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Jenny720 said:


> Have you told the breeders what you where looking for. It is such a big decision and Im sure you don't want to feel rushed so it's good to ask questions. Are there references the kennel can give to maybe you can talk to people that own dogs from them. It's a very well know kennel. Ask about the OFAXrays. Did you meet the dam and sire and their other dogs. How did you like them. We have a asl incredibly happy with him. Friendly to people who we welcome in the house. now he is getting older very aloof to people we see in the streets. He is the type of dog that will not hide behind the couch if someone broke in. Great watch dog and incredibly energetic and focused. He is a lot of dog and we need to do much with him. He is sound and people still will stop in their cars and compliments all the time. We got him from a breeder who have some great winning show lined in his pedigree and my dog is still completely sound and not over angulated. I have seen some timid asl out their but also timid some timid/unsure working lines also they are out there. We had a working line that was incredibly confident and stable he had drive but was not over the top in the least. He started developing arthritis when he was about 8 or until he was 12 it took over. Two different personalities one more serious then the other. Both great dogs though. Our asl Max is dog reactive and is our challenge. I really love this dog to pieces and has such a incredibly personality it is was truly wins me over. He is a dark sable.


I think that's gonna be my next step. I'm on my way to see them now. I think I will ask them for the deposit back and tell them I want to research their sire and Dams more and make a decision from there. 
BTW our German line female that lives with my sister. Nala she has an amazing personality great with people and really vigilant but she is also very dog reactive. A real challenge for her 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Jenny720 said:


> Have you told the breeders what you where looking for. It is such a big decision and Im sure you don't want to feel rushed so it's good to ask questions. Are there references the kennel can give to maybe you can talk to people that own dogs from them. It's a very well know kennel. Ask about the OFAXrays. Did you meet the dam and sire and their other dogs. How did you like them. We have a asl incredibly happy with him. Friendly to people who we welcome in the house. now he is getting older very aloof to people we see in the streets. He is the type of dog that will not hide behind the couch if someone broke in. Great watch dog and incredibly energetic and focused. He is a lot of dog and we need to do much with him. He is sound and people still will stop in their cars and compliments all the time. We got him from a breeder who have some great winning show lined in his pedigree and my dog is still completely sound and not over angulated. I have seen some timid asl out their but also timid some timid/unsure working lines also they are out there. We had a working line that was incredibly confident and stable he had drive but was not over the top in the least. He started developing arthritis when he was about 8 or until he was 12 it took over. Two different personalities one more serious then the other. Both great dogs though. Our asl Max is dog reactive and is our challenge. I really love this dog to pieces and has such a incredibly personality it is was truly wins me over. He is a dark sable.


I'm not at all a fan of ASL dogs but I like yours. He has good lines and his back feet have a nice shape, not down on the pasterns.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Barcagp said:


> I think that's gonna be my next step. I'm on my way to see them now. I think I will ask them for the deposit back and tell them I want to research their sire and Dams more and make a decision from there.
> BTW our German line female that lives with my sister. Nala she has an amazing personality great with people and really vigilant but she is also very dog reactive. A real challenge for her
> 
> Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


That's a good decision. If you aren't in a rush, make sure you are getting exactly the dog you want. There are enough challenges with puppies.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

if "Stevie" is Mind Craft then I can't find any information on either Woodside's or Covy Tucker Hill's

The kennel has made so much money --- I didn't expect to see those conditions. Mulch board fully expanded , chicken wire - boy that can put of a pup's eyes -- which is why I wondered which of the ladies was still breeding. They've been around since the early 70's , getting on in age for sure . Lots of litters !!

all that doesn't matter .

this does - big time -- "Now I met both parents. The mom was very reactive to us barking incessantly. The dad was very friendly. Big. 
However I didn't actually interact with them. They were fenced. 
My last dog I interacted with both parents. No fences"

DEAL BREAKER


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I think we have to be careful in that we're responding to what happened vs what could have happened or been provided had the OP known to ask. not to single out your comment alone Carm but it's a good example... a deal breaker would be if the breeders said no to interacting with the parents right? if they did not offer (which is ideal and could likely send up a momentary red flag) and the OP didn't ask or push for it, then this could be a case of barrier aggression (again, not ideal), and the dam is pretty mild out of the pen and maybe away from her pups.

seems like helping the OP come up with a plan for their next visit would be more beneficial. ask this, request to see that. perhaps that's the intent but it isn't overtly reading that way, at least to me.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Yes I would have to agree having the mother pups barking at me and not be able to get a good feel on either of the dogs is a deal breaker. Get your deposit back is a smart move. I'm sure many people on this forum can recommend a good breeder in your area.
Fodder does make a good point unless it wasn't requested to meet the dogs beyond the gate. Maybe you can request a visit with the parents of the pups and get many questions answered by the breeder before you get your deposit.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

don't agree , fodder , although I appreciate what you are trying to say.

nothing is happening ----- there is no threat -- there is no reason to be so aroused , barking incessantly.

it speaks to temperament . The OP wants a nice companion dog. These lines haven't been tested for generations ,
if ever , for temperament . 

have you any idea how difficult it was to have a temperament test instituted at least at the level of the annual National Club's big show , where the GV , or GVX , and selects are chosen.

talk about having to look over your shoulder to see who would pounce on you and try to take you out - lol

opposition x 100 .

have you any idea of how many failed the first time -- and how many ignored even watching or entering any year .

gun fire test and it was like cockroaches when the lights turn on.

last year at big annual specialty , those dogs were not secure -- 

it would be interesting to know the full picture that the dam gave.

if the dam had acted differently I wouldn't have said anything.

I have been in the ring handling dogs , direct descendants of CTH . The classes filled with similar dogs and relatives of those very prominent , show ring dominance of CTH.

I even owned a dog that was a son of CTH Don Quixote (easy Ch) totally sound . 
Raised, conditioned , others through the early 80's. Broad base of experience 
They are in old GSDCofA GS Reviews .

So the comment isn't an anti-show line comment .


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

carmspack said:


> if "Stevie" is Mind Craft then I can't find any information on either Woodside's or Covy Tucker Hill's
> 
> The kennel has made so much money --- I didn't expect to see those conditions. Mulch board fully expanded , chicken wire - boy that can put of a pup's eyes -- which is why I wondered which of the ladies was still breeding. They've been around since the early 70's , getting on in age for sure . Lots of litters !!
> 
> ...


Yes. Mind craft is the official name 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Did they keep her away from you for a reason? I've had contact with the dam of all 3 of my shepherds, the sires too. If they won't let you, that would make me walk away for sure. If she has a temperament that doesn't match what you want, what are the odds this puppy will?


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Fodder said:


> I think we have to be careful in that we're responding to what happened vs what could have happened or been provided had the OP known to ask. not to single out your comment alone Carm but it's a good example... a deal breaker would be if the breeders said no to interacting with the parents right? if they did not offer (which is ideal and could likely send up a momentary red flag) and the OP didn't ask or push for it, then this could be a case of barrier aggression (again, not ideal), and the dam is pretty mild out of the pen and maybe away from her pups.
> 
> seems like helping the OP come up with a plan for their next visit would be more beneficial. ask this, request to see that. perhaps that's the intent but it isn't overtly reading that way, at least to me.


I asked to see the parents but the owner is away on a show in Carmel. The girl showing us the dogs was the one that feeds them. 
Now there really isn't space or a grassy knoll to take the dogs out. It's a kennel with dozens of fences and walk ways. 
The lady helping us was very nice but I told them I'd get the deposit back and take my time in purchasing. 
They had one house dog 6 yr old and she was an all black sweetheart. But I wasn't going to make rush decision and since the owner was not there I did not ask them to take the parents out. I assumed they didn't know the dogs well 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Any breeders in Bay area anyone would recommend? Should I not expect chicken coup fences? 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Barcagp said:


> Any breeders in Bay area anyone would recommend? Should I not expect chicken coup fences?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


My breeder-Chris Clay, vom Donau Ries if you're up for a high drive pup.

Randy Witmer-Tyson can recommend a breeder if she doesn't have a pup for you.

Same for Ajay Singh, vom Patiala

If you want to pm me I'll let you know which other bay area breeder I had a bad experience with


----------



## dawnpatrol (Apr 16, 2016)

I got my shepherd from them in 2003. She was the runt of the litter and the last one available. She was about 3 months old by the time we took her home. Her temperament was perfect, which I'm not sure if it was because of the breeding or because we had a 6 year old (lazy) labrador retriever at the time. I loved that dog - one ear never stood up, but the color was amazing on her. She was black and tan with a white cross on her chest and white capped toes. Looks aside, she had a fair amount of energy, but was definitely not an overly excited dog. My only qualm was that when she was 4, she developed an unknown condition that curved her spine and made her mouth really crusty and dry. We took her to UC Davis multiple times (spent about $10k on her visits there), but even they couldn't figure out what was wrong. They wanted to do an autopsy on her after she passed, but I declined.

With that being said, I don't know who's breeding them now. I think I worked with Gloria when we picked my dog up and she was super informative and great to work with. I did get to meet the mom, but the dad wasn't on site. The one thing I didn't like that I can remember was that there were a lot of dogs kenneled - felt too much like a breeding farm. I personally would rather have a breeder have fewer available litters, but I did watch Covy-Tucker Hills at multiple dog shows (along others) for about a year before making the decision.

Anyways, my 2 cents on my experience with their dogs and kennel.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

dawnpatrol said:


> I got my shepherd from them in 2003. She was the runt of the litter and the last one available. She was about 3 months old by the time we took her home. Her temperament was perfect, which I'm not sure if it was because of the breeding or because we had a 6 year old (lazy) labrador retriever at the time. I loved that dog - one ear never stood up, but the color was amazing on her. She was black and tan with a white cross on her chest and white capped toes. Looks aside, she had a fair amount of energy, but was definitely not an overly excited dog. My only qualm was that when she was 4, she developed an unknown condition that curved her spine and made her mouth really crusty and dry. We took her to UC Davis multiple times (spent about $10k on her visits there), but even they couldn't figure out what was wrong. They wanted to do an autopsy on her after she passed, but I declined.
> 
> With that being said, I don't know who's breeding them now. I think I worked with Gloria when we picked my dog up and she was super informative and great to work with. I did get to meet the mom, but the dad wasn't on site. The one thing I didn't like that I can remember was that there were a lot of dogs kenneled - felt too much like a breeding farm. I personally would rather have a breeder have fewer available litters, but I did watch Covy-Tucker Hills at multiple dog shows (along others) for about a year before making the decision.
> 
> Anyways, my 2 cents on my experience with their dogs and kennel.


Gloria is still there but she was away on shows. There were tons of dog. I actually felt bad because they were all in cages and I just wondered how much they were actually getting out because they had 1 person there. A high school girl feeding them. It was the weekend so I'm sure maybe some help was missing. 
I will continue to look. 
I am now looking at needlehaus since rotenwald is not expecting anytime soon they said 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

You should pm mycobraracr. He's from the same area as Nadel Haus.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

You made a good choice. I met the mothers of every dog we have purchased and I liked all of them but one. They were very sweet and friendly. The puppies learn a lot from their mothers. The one who had an irritable mother grew up to be a cantankerous adult.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I can't say how sad I am to hear this .


these are some good recommendations :
"My breeder-Chris Clay, vom Donau Ries if you're up for a high drive pup.

Same for Ajay Singh, vom Patiala"'

took out Witmer -Tyson because I am not that familiar with them.

vom Donau Ries -- (got one) vom Patiala (know through reputation and people that have
his lines)


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

was thinking on this and think even less now that this is the situation

OP quote "Gloria is still there but she was away on shows. There were tons of dog. I actually felt bad because they were all in cages and I just wondered how much they were actually getting out because they had 1 person there. A high school girl feeding them. It was the weekend so I'm sure maybe some help was missing. "

And yet you were able to leave a deposit , the beginnings of a sales transaction. 
How can a pup be sold without the owner/breeder having a look at you to see if you are right for that pup, right for any pup.

L


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all the help. 
One thing as I'm looking at various breeders. Should I be looking to spend over $2500? 
I paid $800 for my last one but the breeder isn't doing it anymore. But I was just looking at Westcoast German shepherds and I'm surety sure I can get over 3k 


Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

carmspack said:


> was thinking on this and think even less now that this is the situation
> 
> OP quote "Gloria is still there but she was away on shows. There were tons of dog. I actually felt bad because they were all in cages and I just wondered how much they were actually getting out because they had 1 person there. A high school girl feeding them. It was the weekend so I'm sure maybe some help was missing. "
> 
> ...


The lady in the house I guess worked with her since 1977 but was there only to watch over and said she was out of the game for a while. 
The high school girl showed us all the puppies 
Then the lady met us with the puppies we liked and was very nice. 
Again I'm not trying to badmouth them or anything. I just felt I'd like to talk to the breeder and see what she thought was a good dog for us and also who she thought would fit in well with us. It's too bad she was away but in the end we weren't in a rush and told her we would want to work with her more before choosing 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

yes, especially if you are now venturing into west german showlines... you can expect to pay $2k plus...


----------



## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Barcagp said:


> Thanks everyone for all the help.
> One thing as I'm looking at various breeders. Should I be looking to spend over $2500?
> I paid $800 for my last one but the breeder isn't doing it anymore. But I was just looking at Westcoast German shepherds and I'm surety sure I can get over 3k
> 
> ...


For what you want, I wouldn't be too quick to only consider show lines. You should get out and meet some of the working line breeders that have been mentioned. You might be surprised at how well they can fit your lifestyle.


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

LuvShepherds said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you told the breeders what you where looking for. It is such a big decision and Im sure you don't want to feel rushed so it's good to ask questions. Are there references the kennel can give to maybe you can talk to people that own dogs from them. It's a very well know kennel. Ask about the OFAXrays. Did you meet the dam and sire and their other dogs. How did you like them. We have a asl incredibly happy with him. Friendly to people who we welcome in the house. now he is getting older very aloof to people we see in the streets. He is the type of dog that will not hide behind the couch if someone broke in. Great watch dog and incredibly energetic and focused. He is a lot of dog and we need to do much with him. He is sound and people still will stop in their cars and compliments all the time. We got him from a breeder who have some great winning show lined in his pedigree and my dog is still completely sound and not over angulated. I have seen some timid asl out their but also timid some timid/unsure working lines also they are out there. We had a working line that was incredibly confident and stable he had drive but was not over the top in the least. He started developing arthritis when he was about 8 or until he was 12 it took over. Two different personalities one more serious then the other. Both great dogs though. Our asl Max is dog reactive and is our challenge. I really love this dog to pieces and has such a incredibly personality it is was truly wins me over. He is a dark sable.
> ...



Thank you I like moderate -nothing extreme. I'm no expert but I think max is really a nice mover. My son nicknames him Hollywood and it seems to fit!


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Barcagp said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you told the breeders what you where looking for. It is such a big decision and Im sure you don't want to feel rushed so it's good to ask questions. Are there references the kennel can give to maybe you can talk to people that own dogs from them. It's a very well know kennel. Ask about the OFAXrays. Did you meet the dam and sire and their other dogs. How did you like them. We have a asl incredibly happy with him. Friendly to people who we welcome in the house. now he is getting older very aloof to people we see in the streets. He is the type of dog that will not hide behind the couch if someone broke in. Great watch dog and incredibly energetic and focused. He is a lot of dog and we need to do much with him. He is sound and people still will stop in their cars and compliments all the time. We got him from a breeder who have some great winning show lined in his pedigree and my dog is still completely sound and not over angulated. I have seen some timid asl out their but also timid some timid/unsure working lines also they are out there. We had a working line that was incredibly confident and stable he had drive but was not over the top in the least. He started developing arthritis when he was about 8 or until he was 12 it took over. Two different personalities one more serious then the other. Both great dogs though. Our asl Max is dog reactive and is our challenge. I really love this dog to pieces and has such a incredibly personality it is was truly wins me over. He is a dark sable.
> ...


 German show lines I had never owned but met quite a few and really like the dogs. It is good you are taking your time and not rushing into anything. Good luck in your search!


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

I just spoke to Ajay. 
Great knowledge!
He says that I would be happier with a working dog.


----------



## ausdland (Oct 21, 2015)

Barcagp said:


> Thanks everyone for all the help.
> One thing as I'm looking at various breeders. Should I be looking to spend over $2500?
> I paid $800 for my last one but the breeder isn't doing it anymore. But I was just looking at Westcoast German shepherds and I'm surety sure I can get over 3k
> 
> ...


Purchasing a gsd puppy is the least expensive part of owning one btw.
If you told Ajay your desires for gsd, you can trust his recommendation.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

ausdland said:


> Purchasing a gsd puppy is the least expensive part of owning one btw.
> If you told Ajay your desires for gsd, you can trust his recommendation.


Oh I know haha. Especially when you spoil them:grin2:


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

As some others have said, look into WL as well. They make great companion dogs too. People often confuse "having drives" with being hyper and they are two different things. 

I've been building a roof over my deck, this has taken up a huge amount of my time so the dogs have had to suck it up. My WL just follows me around while I work looking over my shoulder. Over to the saw, he plops down and watches me cut, climb up the ladder and he waits at the bottom, I come in for a break, he sits down next to me completely content. We've had other stretches of down time and he takes it in stride.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Nigel said:


> As some others have said, look into WL as well. They make great companion dogs too. People often confuse "having drives" with being hyper and they are two different things.
> 
> I've been building a roof over my deck, this has taken up a huge amount of my time so the dogs have had to suck it up. My WL just follows me around while I work looking over my shoulder. Over to the saw, he plops down and watches me cut, climb up the ladder and he waits at the bottom, I come in for a break, he sits down next to me completely content. We've had other stretches of down time and he takes it in stride.


That's my question. There will be days that stuff happens and I live in a condo so I'm glad that you're saying that it's happened and been ok for you. 
I'll definitely Begin looking at this line. I think as an owner you stay away at first thinking that the word "working line " means you have to be out doing police work or herding cattle every day. 


Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

remember that the GSD is supposed to be a working dog breed.

ALL parts of the dog's character (temperament , disposition ) and confromation need to be considered against the template of the original form and purpose only.

strong work ethic has nothing to do with being hyper kinetic , and strong drive has nothing to do with reactive or unmanageable .

Ajay has some well thought out logical pedigrees . 

do talk to the people at Donau-Ries and see what they have .

you can always post pedigrees on the forum


----------



## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

What Nigel was saying reminded me of our working line that passed away. When I raked the leaves karat would follow me in the yard. Lie down watch me follow me and quietly follow me around the yard. In the house he would lie down in either three spots and lie their until it was time for him to go out or attention was directed at him. Now we never owned hyper dogs like border collies, Australian shepherds,jack russels or labs etc all our dogs were pretty calm even our chihuahua is calm but karat was the calmest when called for. He had a incredible strong presence and a quiet intensity. He had tons of drive but the same time reserved and disciplined. He was a very serious dog. After reading many things on this forum or hearing from different people I thought there was not another like him. Their are extremes in every line and you just need to know what you truly want and find the right breeder.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

carmspack said:


> remember that the GSD is supposed to be a working dog breed.
> 
> ALL parts of the dog's character (temperament , disposition ) and confromation need to be considered against the template of the original form and purpose only.
> 
> ...


Ajay at the moment does not have any. 
He recommended a 4 month old from redding. 
However I don't want to rush over and just buy. 
I would rather have a 12 week of at the oldest. 
My wife of course wants 8 weeks. The fluffy stage but no sleep either 

Sent from my SM-G9350 using Tapatalk


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

"He recommended a 4 month old from redding. 
However I don't want to rush over and just buy. 
I would rather have a 12 week of at the oldest. 
My wife of course wants 8 weeks. The fluffy stage "


Here is something to consider . When you are buying from a working line breeder 
that breeder has a totally different set of goals than the average showline of any stipe.

Chances are that you won't be able to get a fluffy 8 week old - that is pet breeding territory.
12 to 16 months more reasonable .
During this extra time the pup will have had lots of contact and exposure as the breeder is
going through a thorough evaluation and decisions making process to be as sure as they can be that
the pup will have the working qualities their dog-buyer is asking for.

Nothing wrong with a 4 month old .


----------



## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Interesting - I know My friends have two "pet" dogs from Chris Clay that they got as puppies at 8 weeks (ish). They never planned on working their dogs.

If you are still looking at showlines you could see if Shannon O'Donovan has any puppies. She is around Auburn now I believe. Her website seems out of date - but you can google her name and vom zwillingshaus. I have a good friend who has one of her dogs that is being trained to be her service dog right now.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

mspiker03 said:


> Interesting - I know My friends have two "pet" dogs from Chris Clay that they got as puppies at 8 weeks (ish). They never planned on working their dogs.
> 
> If you are still looking at showlines you could see if Shannon O'Donovan has any puppies. She is around Auburn now I believe. Her website seems out of date - but you can google her name and vom zwillingshaus. I have a good friend who has one of her dogs that is being trained to be her service dog right now.


Chris Said she may have something in a few months, it would be a new litter



carmspack said:


> "He recommended a 4 month old from redding.
> However I don't want to rush over and just buy.
> I would rather have a 12 week of at the oldest.
> My wife of course wants 8 weeks. The fluffy stage "
> ...


I understand and I am willing to look in to that as well. Having a puppy and going through all of it is something that I now enjoy since my almost 7yr old is getting older. I feel like I appreciate her more knowing we had those moments as she was a puppy. 5Am bathroom outings where she would smell for 20 min in the cold before she went.

I understand the breeder recommending an older pup, but am I asking for too much for wanting a puppy? is that unrealistic?


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

Still looking around...I found VHM in Shasta, redding area
These are the pedigrees...kind of new to the foums, anyone know where I post pedigrees? Putting it here for now

Dakota Vom Haus Middleton

Aladin vom Bergmannsland


----------



## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Barcagp said:


> Chris Said she may have something in a few months, it would be a new litter
> 
> 
> I understand and I am willing to look in to that as well. Having a puppy and going through all of it is something that I now enjoy since my almost 7yr old is getting older. I feel like I appreciate her more knowing we had those moments as she was a puppy. 5Am bathroom outings where she would smell for 20 min in the cold before she went.
> ...


Not unrealistic at all, do what works best for you. 

I will say there are some nice advantages to bringing home an older pup. My WL and my wife's wgsl both came home at 4 months and it worked out great, potty trained, they were past the puppy shots stage so no worries there, sleeping through most of the night, and much more "durable" to engage in play with our kids/other two dogs.


----------



## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

Barcagp said:


> I understand the breeder recommending an older pup, but am I asking for too much for wanting a puppy? is that unrealistic?


I have taken a few 3-4 month old puppies that were already socialized and partially trained. Not only was it a lot easier but the breeders know how to do early training right. Find out what they have already done with the dog and then make the decision. If the dog has been indoors and trained, yes. If it has been sitting outside alone in a kennel doing nothing, no.

I just got an 8 week old last year and I'd forgotten how much of the early months is exhausting and repetitive. Get up, take the dog out, stop the nipping, get up again, take the dog out again. If I ever get another puppy, it will be an older one.


----------



## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

not quite sure if you are saying that Dakota and Aladin are being bred together or not .

Dakota - that pedigree in itself is tricky. Asko Lutter AND Crok Erlenbusch on the sire's side.
Both of these dogs could be explosive when pressured , handler, and dog aggression, passed on to progeny,
some of which were nervy.

You have to know how to pair Asko and Crok very carefully to lines that are rock solid , slow to ignite .

I don't think WGSL 's are a good combination -- adding more excitability . Nerves can't carry the aggression.

Aladin doesn't have anything to offer this female for breeding .

This is sort of what happens when people think you take a working line and you take a show line and you improve structure and bring in work .

You must know the entire Families that flow through the sire and the dam .

Could you open a new thread instead of continuing on the Covy Tucker Hill thread. You might bring in more people to give you ideas on your quest for your future pup.


----------



## Barcagp (Jan 28, 2014)

carmspack said:


> not quite sure if you are saying that Dakota and Aladin are being bred together or not .
> 
> Dakota - that pedigree in itself is tricky. Asko Lutter AND Crok Erlenbusch on the sire's side.
> Both of these dogs could be explosive when pressured , handler, and dog aggression, passed on to progeny,
> ...



ILL do that..
Thanks


----------

