# Czech/work line



## edanzanders

Hello everyone this is my first post. I'm sorry to resurrect the old "are Czech GSD's good family dogs" thread, but I actually have a very specific question, and I would like to make the right decision both for the dog and for our family.

I am not a first time dog owner by any means. I have owned Rottweilers and Great Danes; however, I did not have children then. I now have two girls less than 3 years old. I have done extensive research trying to find the perfect dog for our family. I finally came across a dog trainer with over 25 years in the field, who was offering Czech/work GSD puppies as family dogs. All of these are young dongs (5-7 months) with extensive socialization and obedience training. I explained to him I needed an easy going shepherd, well socialized with children and with impeccable manners. He suggested one his puppies for me. I was almost instantly sold, since pays much attention to the dogs temperament and socialization with children.

I then began reading online posts of people, almost unanimously, discouraging keeping Czech GSD as family pets. I realize a lot of it is individual temperament and training, but I was a bit unsettled by the information available online.

Rather than asking the trainer, since I'm fairly sure what he would say, I was wondering if I could get your input on this individual dog, before I travel halfway across the country to meet her. She really does not seem like she would be any more of a handful than any of my other dogs, but I have never owned a GSD, let alone a working line GSD:

15 week video first sable the girl handles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mtgCtxBrLQ

6 months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfdYaZytbtw

Thank you all in advance for your input.


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## nezzz

My current female is a working Czech GSD. And an excellent family pet. Working lines, unlike other GSDs are excellent family pets but they need more than just daily walks to keep them satisfied, or they become destructive at home. So if you have the time and are committed, a working line dog is excellent


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## Nigel

Mine is a family pet with young children in the home. He was very mouthy as a pup, but never viewed it as a problem as our byb female was just about as persistent, didn't help my kids would at times encourage it. 

Mine did not come from a quality breeder, just someone who imported and put them together, just the same he's been great, super smart, easy to train, maybe a bit stubborn on a rare occasion, great house manners, but he will turn it up several notches outside and becomes more intense. He's more vocal, but that could just be him, all and all we are very happy with him.


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## Gwenhwyfair

At 6 months why are her ears down still (that much?)? These pups don't look like the Czech dogs I've seen? WL folks, am I wrong here? 

Seems like a sweet dog but I'm thinking a WL Show cross maybe?

Post up the pedigree if you can, then folks here can help sort out what the lines and temperament tendencies are (sire and dam's registered names if you don't have her pedigree info).


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## Jax08

Holy Crap!!! $3000??? For an 18 week old working line? From untitled parents??? Contact Weberhaus in Kansas. You'll save money and get what you want. and I bet the ears stand.


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## onyx'girl

neither one of those videos are very impressive....prong collar is not fitted right, (why prongs in the first place on such young dogs)the dogs are overweight and don't look like they are from czech lines, imo. can you share the pedigrees?


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## Jax08

The sire of this puppy is showline from Czech.. The dam is??? "the product of two imports"? That says nothing about what the puppy's lines actually are.

Pass on this one. You can do better.


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## Nigel

I couldn't see the videos at work earlier, kept getting a "heavy data 3D" warning. I agree with what's been said, for that kind of money I'd keep looking.


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## Sunflowers

While I would bypass these puppies and this breeder, I have to say, if you go to a reputable breeder and realize that the dog is for the adults and not for the kids, and have patience until the dog is two or three, Czech line GSDs are the best family pets in the universe.

They are very bonded to their owners, and adore their family.
However, they will become buttheads if they sense the kids are weak. I have had to correct my dog several times around my younger son. My older son is a natural leader, and has an air of confidence around him, and the dog can sense it.

My kids were seven and nine when I got my dog, and I am glad they were at that age, because working line puppies can be a handful and little kids don't understand what they need to do and more importantly not do around them. But if you are committed, I'll bet you can make it work.

Do your research, find a good breeder who will select the right dog for your family, I have absolutely no regrets about the one that was selected for us.


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## onyx'girl

> I finally came across a dog trainer with over 25 years in the field, who was offering Czech/work GSD puppies as family dogs. All of these are young dongs (5-7 months) with extensive socialization and obedience training. I explained to him I needed an easy going shepherd, well socialized with children and with impeccable manners. He suggested one his puppies for me. I was almost instantly sold, since pays much attention to the dogs temperament and socialization with children.


You should be able to find many, many breeders that pay attention to temperament and health, and most all dogs live happily in a home environment. GSD's need work, no matter which lines you decide on, and I would not really say they are 'easy going' as far as the breed is supposed to be a working dog. The Czech lines may be more of a challenge, I've found they tend take longer to mature and may carry a bit of suspicion until they are mature, very aware of the surroundings. How are you doing your research, and wouldn't you want to do the training yourself? A rescue that has been temperament tested may be better suited and less expensive than buying from someone that has put a bit of training into a young dog.


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## edanzanders

I want to thank everyone for your comments. I'm sure glad I posted.

After reading you all, I think I would actually be relieved to get a non-working line dog. I was wondering how in the world a working line dog would be "laid back", which is what I had originally asked for. I was beginning to wonder if they were trying to give me a dog that didn't actually meet my laid back criteria.

In all fairness, I want to clarify that in my particular case, the dog will stay with the trainer until she is 9 months old, and she will continue being worked in on/off leash obedience, crate training, daily socialization with children of all ages, and a couple of other things we personally requested, like heeling to a baby stroller etc. For what it's worth, at this point I don't feel like I'm just buying a puppy, but essentially more like nine months of training. Because of my kids, I really wanted to get all that training in.

That said, the replies have given a lot more to think about. The ears for one! and I can't believe I forgot to ask about pedigrees. I guess I just assumed things, since I have always bought puppies from German breeders and, believe me, they are so strict!


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## onyx'girl

but you don't want to do it yourself....you will be paying a high price for that. best wishes, choose wisely with your eyes wide open.


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## edanzanders

onyx'girl said:


> but you don't want to do it yourself....you will be paying a high price for that. best wishes, choose wisely with your eyes wide open.


Yeah, precisely! back when I bought my last puppy, a blue Great Dane from Germany, we had no children, so lots and lots of time for that initial puppy stage, which for me always feels like a full-time job. Now with two toddlers, I'm afraid of letting anything fall through the cracks. It just wouldn't be fair to the dog.

Other than that, we are very athletic and exercise wouldn't be a problem or anything.


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## gsdsar

I only watched the videos. I know nothing about this guy/breeder/trainer. 

To me it looked like a lovely pup. Easy going, not crazy. But it was a small snippet of time. I would want to meet the pup a few times, when not formally training. See what it's like in the house, outside in the yard, at the park, on walks. Every pup at that age can be good for 3 minutes. 

I would not choose this path. I like to expose my pup to my life from the get go. But that's me. I like to bond and train and shape my dog. 

Personally, I think you could find a great young adult in rescue, that has training, has been evaluated around kids and save a life or two in the process for 1/10 what this guy charges.


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## Slamdunc

I would pass on this breeder. Puppies need to be puppies and I was not impressed at all. Go with what Jax, gsdsar and what others recommended. 

Czech GSD's are very good dogs if they come from the right breeder. My preference is Czech / west german. Be very careful of breeders claiming to sell Czech dogs. make sure you do a lot of research and google everything that you can.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Here's another thought....

If you really want a WL GSD but don't want to take that on right now due to the kids...(which is understandable)..how about waiting a bit?

GSDs are not the easiest breed to research or own. You'll pay a lot for a dog with training but as mentioned is that ideal?

How about going with another breed from the herding group that will be a better fit with your family? 

I recommend Australian shepherds. Go with a good breeder and you can have a fun, active, highly trainable dog. They don't take as long to mature as many GSDs do. You can do agility, frisbee sports or with the right dog herding and they are good family dogs.

When your kids are older then you can look into adding a GSD to the pack. 

. . Good luck!



edanzanders said:


> Yeah, precisely! back when I bought my last puppy, a blue Great Dane from Germany, we had no children, so lots and lots of time for that initial puppy stage, which for me always feels like a full-time job. Now with two toddlers, I'm afraid of letting anything fall through the cracks. It just wouldn't be fair to the dog.
> 
> Other than that, we are very athletic and exercise wouldn't be a problem or anything.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

onyx'girl said:


> neither one of those videos are very impressive....prong collar is not fitted right, (why prongs in the first place on such young dogs)the dogs are overweight and don't look like they are from czech lines, imo. can you share the pedigrees?


I agree--they don't look like the czech lines I am familiar with, don't look like my boy at all. The ears--??

Susan


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## Gwenhwyfair

Susan, turns out the sire is a Czech _SL_....Jax found some info. Dam, unknown, OP is aware.


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## KZoppa

I would pass. Cute and all but 100% controlled environment. I like to see puppies being able to still be puppies. Is the puppy respectful of the child even when full on playing? Even while playing fetch, it's still heavy on obedience, which is nice, but only a snippet in the big picture. The ears not standing by now are an issue for me as well. Not to mention they look overweight. 

I have a czech/DDR and he's a good boy. Great puppy, really good adult. I have two younger kids, ages 5 and 7. He's good with them. Always has been. I prefer being the one to work the dogs as it builds the bond and my kids can learn as well.


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## JakodaCD OA

I watched the videos, not crazy about the fact he has prong collars on 15wk old puppies, however, nice obedience, calm, biddable.. I also don't like the fact he's got a six month old with floppy ears, they do not look full czech to me, and are HUGE for 15 wks old. 

I have no knowledge of the trainer/breeder but I would ask what health clearances the parents have had. I would also want to see a pedigree. 

If that is the type/temperament your looking for, well it's your decision, they look like they would make nice family pets just from the short video I saw, I would want to see them out in the "real" world not just an obed type class situation..And if you don't mind dropped ears, again, who knows? this could be the type of dog you want to live with.


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## John C.

Also, a word of caution about making generalizations concerning working vs. show lines. I own a WGSL puppy (although his mother comes from a long line of dogs that actually do herding) and at 1 year old mellow and laid back he is not. He's got a great temperament - good with people and other dogs, confident, etc. but if he's not eating or sleeping he's generally bounding around the house looking for trouble. He's kind of like Tigger from Winnie the Pooh - he doesn't walk so much as pounce.

Some of that is just puppy behavior - but he's never going to be a laid back dog and would probably not be a good fit for someone with small children.

My advice would be to ask this forum for recommendations of good breeders within driving distance of where you live. Also, occasionally breeders sell older dogs. That might be a better fit for you. They would be calmer, have had some training, and you will know how the dog turned out.


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## Susan_GSD_mom

Gwenhwyfair said:


> Susan, turns out the sire is a Czech _SL_....Jax found some info. Dam, unknown, OP is aware.


I didn't know there was a czech SL! Do you mean czech crossed with SL maybe? Or is there actually a czech SL??

Susan


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## Gwenhwyfair

WGSL dogs bred in other countries outside of Germany, but basically are the same lines. 

Country of origin is Czech, line is WGSL for instance.

It's confusing in this case since there are the Czech WLs which are a specific subset within WLs. Sort-a not cool if these dogs are being advertised as 'Czech' WLs because that's misleading, IMO.

GSDs, the most complicated breed in the world. LOL! 




Susan_GSD_mom said:


> I didn't know there was a czech SL! Do you mean czech crossed with SL maybe? Or is there actually a czech SL??
> 
> Susan


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## Jax08

You have to go a couple pages deep into that website to find the "show line" blurb.


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## Gwenhwyfair

Ah....I was wondering where you found that. 

I thought they looked more like WGSL X WL crosses. 




Jax08 said:


> You have to go a couple pages deep into that website to find the "show line" blurb.


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## Prager

If you want Working line GSD then you will need to work it. All dogs
need training and working dogs bred to work will need it too and more.
Meaning you need to train it's basic social skills and +/- (!!!)obedience . Train the dog mostly during every day life. Yes vs No. Use +/- obedience and not competition type + only motivational obedience. that is my advise. If you do that then you can not get better dog then Old style Czech lines working dogs for your family. After all the GSD is a working dog and not a show dog or sport dog . As far as having such dog for family MHO is that there is not more noble work for the GSD then to be a family dog social dog and at the same time protector. But you ave to help him to get there. 
Also remember what culture GSD came from - German culture which imprinted itself on this breed. Germans are great engineers and people which like uncompromising order and structure and discipline . Thus if you treat the dog such way then you will succeed. If you tend to repeat commands and let the dog get away with "stuff" then Czech working line is not necessarily the best choice for you. 
Also remember that there are big differences among Czech lines. 
The Old Style Czech GSD (OSCZD as I call them ) is one type and the modern WG like sport dog and WGSL is another. The OSCZD is in my book the epitome of working GSD and I have imported the first ones in US and elsewhere and I do not think that there is better type of GSD for almost any work GSD can do. Some say that I am bias. Well duuuh. I always like the best. So yes I am bias. 
Look if you want to have a dog of any kind you will have to train it. Czech dogs learn fast and are very intelligent which maybe good if they are part of your family and not so good if you neglect them intentionally or unintentionally. 
Someone said that they are slowly maturing . It may look like it but the reason for such opinion is that way because OSCZD are not strictly or mostly prey driven like sport dogs are but they are of balanced dives between prey and defense . Prey driven dogs display the prey early in life and thus training bitework through prey will make dog bite sooner and thus look like it matured sooner. Where the dog who is 50:50 prey : defense/natural protectiveness or even more toward natural protectiveness will take little more time to mature to use protectiveness for their bitework. In another words the dog must be first more mature to actually protect rather then just to chase things in prey. Thus the opinion that OSCZD mature slowly....which may seems like it but is not exactly so.


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## Slamdunc

Oh boy, here we go….smh


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## Kaimeju

The breeder I got my pup from has mostly Czech dogs and it is actually her WGWL male that is the most intense and least "family-friendly." A lot depends on the individual dogs involved. The puppies that go to active family homes that are dedicated to training and socialization seem to do fine. I wouldn't limit yourself by the kind of lines being used, but rather look what the breeder produces and what their track record is for placing dogs successfully in both working/sport and family homes. They should be able to tell the difference between a puppy that will do well in a family setting vs. working home, and they should also be able to ask you about your situation and assess whether one of their dogs would be a good fit. It is an oversimplification to say "X line has Y traits."

As others have said, I think it's important to note that what you do with the dog will have a huge effect on how he/she fits into your family. If they have the right outlet for their drives, good and structured handling, and are socialized well, there is no reason a working line dog (Czech or other type) can't settle in the house and be around your family. Again, you have to have a breeder you can really trust and understand what kind of dogs they produce vs. what kind of dog you want for your home.


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## David Taggart

My present dog Lucy is of so called "East European line", her parents are from DDR. The origin of EEGSD is East Germany, these dogs are common in almost any East European country, and were bred for working in police and army including Czech Republic. They are larger in size, unbelievably obedient, active, have strong prey and protection drives, and yes, can be good nannies if these drives find full satisfaction on the daily basis. In one word - they correspond to the standards of a working dog, but they are not the dogs for every GSD lover. It would all depend on you - are you ready to train your dog for competitions? Because they cannot live without work. I do mean work, not simply hard physical exercise. EEGSD is good for a person and his family who works in SAR, police, or participates in dog sports. If you are not ready to be terribly tired devoting 3-4 hours a day at least to your dog solely - you should never take the responsibility of having him. But, maybe it is all but speculation? "Czech dogs" doesn't mean automatically "Czech/DDR working line".


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## Blitzkrieg1

The Czech pup I have now is the best house dog I ever had... Maybe not the best IPO dog though... There are no generalizations worth making here.


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## Prager

David Taggart said:


> My present dog Lucy is of so called "East European line", her parents are from DDR. The origin of EEGSD is East Germany, these dogs are common in almost any East European country, and were bred for working in police and army including Czech Republic. They are larger in size, unbelievably obedient, active, have strong prey and protection drives, and yes, can be good nannies if these drives find full satisfaction on the daily basis. In one word - they correspond to the standards of a working dog, but they are not the dogs for every GSD lover. It would all depend on you - are you ready to train your dog for competitions? Because they cannot live without work. I do mean work, not simply hard physical exercise. EEGSD is good for a person and his family who works in SAR, police, or participates in dog sports. If you are not ready to be terribly tired devoting 3-4 hours a day at least to your dog solely - you should never take the responsibility of having him. But, maybe it is all but speculation? "Czech dogs" doesn't mean automatically "Czech/DDR working line".


 If you interact with your dog during the day in positive and negative way then to say is that you need to work with working dog 3-4 hours a day in order to have social and thus be valuable member of a family is way out of line. As a matter of fact I do not know anyone ever anywhere who would work with their dog training it for 3-4 hours( at least!!!!) every day and to work the dog every day of it's life for 3-4 hours or more is detrimental to the dog's mental well being. I totally disagree with such notion extremely exaggerated. I mean yes there are dogs on patrol for 8 hours but that usually just sleep and even herding dog ntr S&R is not running around all day every day.


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## Kaimeju

Working 3-4 hours per day is perhaps not what was meant. I think he meant paying attention to the dog and meeting their needs for exercise, training, socialization, etc. 

This sounds like a lot but it is really not too bad- exercise/play an hour in the morning and an hour at night, plus several half hour sessions during the day. I definitely don't think people would suggest 3-4 hour long training sessions on a daily basis. Nobody I know does things that way. But paying attention to your dog and keeping them engaged for that amount of time is reasonable to expect IMO.


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## David Taggart

My dog is my assistant in dog training, the majority of sessions she is with me. Lucy is 4 and half now, knows a lot and does a lot. She is a perfect puppy trainer, she calms down aggressive ones and encourages shy ones, she is a search dog and she is a therapy dog, the only thing she doesn't do is protection because there are not so many customers here in UK for me to bother about her development in that direction. I'm sitting writing here or reading only because I have twisted my ankle.
Why would I advise OP against having working line GSD? Doesn't matter, Czech or American working line, the majority of them are too active to be a family dog, too intelligent and need to be involved in vigorous business, only then these dogs are happy. Different types of GSD show different energy level, working line are active dogs, if you don't provide them with a proper life style - they turn aggressive. Or fall into depression.


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## edanzanders

*Update*

Hello everyone, I know its been a while, but I figured I'd give everyone a little update. I learned a lot from your input here, which I used to better inform myself all along the process. I want to thank everyone.

I ended up meeting both the dog and trainer from the original post, and we whole heartedly decided to keep the pup. In all fairness and in case it may help someone else in the future I wanted to fill in some of the missing details in this posts, and give my general impressions.

First Pedigree:
Here is the father : Candy z Agíru Bohemia
Here is the mother: Falcon von der highstrauss

Then regarding the ears: She has some big ears. I'm pretty sure she gets satellite TV off of those, but they are both up. They are still a little soft, but she is 8.5 months old. Both ears are permanently up.

Next regarding the trainer: He is a total class act, straight up, and totally knows his stuff. Now I realize there are different schools of thought regarding dog training, methods, etc. I don't mean to start a controversial discussion here. Suffice it to say that within the scope of the particular school he adheres to, he is at the top of his class. He spent a whole week with us, introducing us to the dog, making sure it was a right fit for us, and showing us how to maintain and maximize the benefits of her training.

Now, for me and my family, the dog is a perfect match. The mix of show and working line works beautifully for us. Our dogs nerves are solid, she loves children and is totally calm (not licking her chops or wide eyed) when meeting new children, and when they run around, play with balls, etc. She also is not a couch potato. We do several Frisbee sessions a day, which she loves, we started her carting, and she loves to work; but is calm indoors, chewing on a bone, playing with our toddler and just hanging out. For our family, at this stage in our lives, with our toddlers, and active life-style, this Czech show/working line mix is obsoletely perfect. Although I could envision a full blown working line in the future perhaps 

Finally a short clip of our dog. Sorry about the wind/static. Just mute the sound :crazy: Thanks to everyone who contributed here.


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