# Help! Calcium levels, TOTW, All these ????s!!!



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

OK. So here goes. I bought Taste of the Wild ( the yellow bag with the venison and bison) for my dogs, and learned that the Calcium level is too high for Cullen ( being 9 1/2 weeks, large breed pup). Now, from what I can gather, it is around 2.1% Calcium!!!

I want to stick with NO GRAIN, because Gizmo has cleared up 95 percent in the last 2 1/2 weeks of using it, and is doing great! I went today to this local pet store that carried ALL of the better brands ( except this blue buffalo I hear about) They carry innova, wellness core, etc. So I checked out for some that are locally carried with less, and seems all grainless foods are " all life stages" so I can THANKFULLY buy one food for both dogs.... I have been using dogfoodanalysis.com to check these levels, and seems they are ALL high!!!

Instinct is at 1.82% (rabbit)UP TO 2.49%(chicken/duck), and it's pretty affordable.( OK VERY affordable)
Wellness Core is at 2%... AND way less affordable
TOTW at around 2.1%.. priced in the middle
Orijen - 1.5-1.7%... and expensive
Evo Red Meat - 2.11% and HIGHER Priced\
Canidea ALS no grain - 2%

I have less than a week of TOTW left... so trying to figure out something NOW, so I can go in the AM and pick up new food. I do also have multivitamins and Salmon oil I plan on using, would like any and ALL advice.

Just a note, I was going to go with the RAW diet, but I at the moment am doing kibble/canned in the AM, kibble in the lunchtime hours, and then raw at night... BUT, Cullen is very aggressive with RMBs, so I may just drop the Raw for a while... Grain free is almost as good right?

EDIT... oh.. and also.. we do have this " before grain" brand around... seems good I guess... but I tried a little canned when we were waiting for the TOTW canned to be stocked, and it gave them instant liquid poo... can't find calcium levels for that though! And... Natures Variety I don't think is a no grain!


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I have been feeding Orijen LB Puppy. Expensive to buy but I haven't found it terribly expensive to feed.

Look for a large breed puppy formulation.


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

I can't seem to find the Grain Free in large breed ( not sure about orijen) but the price is so outrageous!


----------



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been using wellness core ocean, and while it is pricey........it has lasted longer than than the TOTW did. I will say, I havent tried other varieties of Core, the Ocean has 2.1% cal levels.


----------



## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

For a pup wellness super5mix large breed puppy has the proper ratio of calcium and phosphorus. I would go with that if you don't want to feed Orijen. It does contain barley and rice however. Go RAW if you really want grain free, it has the perfect balance for a growing puppy! I have had Karlo on RAW since 8 weeks old(breeder also fed raw) and he is a joyful eater(inhaler) never had any problems. Turkey necks, chicken wings/necks are fine for the RMB adding some muscle meat and a touch of organ to the meal...much better than all the additives in kibble.


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Betsy..

Was this something you used for adults or puppies? I am looking for something grain free for a puppy. I am leaning towards Orijin or instinct rabbit ( both under 2%) and I like that the Instinct has Tapioca... or sticking with TOTW I guess... But... if I do.. doesn't one of the B vitamins help with processing Calcium better?


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

HA... i feel dumb.. I see orijin large breed is grain free... but 30 more per bag than what I am paying... not sure if they had it where I went, guess I will have to go look specifically. 

Guess I could have the pup and giz on different foods for a while. Just easier on the pocketbook to be on one.


----------



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

I do not know about using the core products for puppies, however I do believe that someone has mentioned it is one of the grainless that can be used for puppies. I have a friend that is using the Wellness for large breed puppies with very good results. Personally, for a grainless food for puppy I would probably also be stuck between the two you mentioned. both are excellent foods, and if their makeup is suitable for a puppy, all the better. I have never tried Instinct before, the rabbit does look good. I dont think you can go wrong with either food, If you are going to stay with kibble longer than you originally planned I would make the switch from the higher calcium in TOTW. As far as your problems with possesiveness with the raw, you may want to look at how you are feeding and what factors are involved that are contributing to the situation. I would be willing to bet, that if this is showing itself now, you may also have issues with other high value items down the road, so if you can look at addressing it now, you may still be able to go raw with no problems with resource guarding.


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

I have been trying to figure out what I do wrong... 

At feeding time, I tell them " time to eat" and each dog runs to their respective areas, which are both private and apart. They are made to sit, and given their bowls. They eat, don't bother each other, and should have no reason to act in the way that he does... so the last few nights I have been feeding all raw out of my hand, and even starting with the bones in my hand for a few, then letting him finish it himself. 

I don't want food aggression to become a threat to my 7 year old. I am not sure about going full raw anymore. I have read a lot, and learned a lot, just not sure it is for me!


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

I cant help you with grain free and calcium levels bc I am so sick of looking at ingredients i cant stand it! BLEH! lmao!

however, Clover gets a bit snatchy with his meaty bone treats too...I am trying to teach manners even for these but he is like talking to a rock.

I would like to know more about the Core foods since Clover shows real interest in those. I think he is over the Innova stuff....I am REALLY wishing I had NOT done the biggest bag available. 

Let us know what you end up choosing!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

I am going to Doggstuff tomorrow. They have samples of everything, and they also are informative, though more expensive than everywhere else.. at least I will get info!

Robin, I will let you know. I am stuck!!! I don't want to give him something that might harm him, but need grain free kibble! Cullen will give the low growl the first time, and the SNAP and growl the next time.


----------



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

you might try video taping the dogs at dinner time, and posting it on here. Someone may be able to pick up on something that you have overlooked. Sometimes a dog will percieve a threat that we miss altogether. They are very sensitive to body language from us as well as from other animals. I have had this problem before with a couple of foster dogs before, but was able to manage it and improve it with blocking and leadership. But without actually seeing the dynamic, its all guessing.


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thats a good idea StGeorge.

VBF why are you doing 100% grain free again? I know the Hollistic Select Eagle Pack is good but not 100% free as well as this Innova. I am still so lost food wise. Ugh! I am giving you a hug in sympathy!  I love my feed store, I get free sample packs of everything! Love it!


----------



## Samba (Apr 23, 2001)

I didn't know that Core made a puppy appropriate food?


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

ROBIN - I completely forgot that we have a feed and seed store here.. I will go there tomorrow also! LOL. 

StGeorge - I will try... I just don't mess with the bone now. But, I am more worried about the kid, especially since he may soon outweigh my son!

Samba - errrrrr I am not sure it is Puppy Appropriate, I think it is " suitable for all life stages" but... so are all of the other Grain Frees that I am told aren't suitable.


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

oh the feed stores are the BEST!!!! mine also has frequent buyr perks of some brands as well as 7.00 off coupons for the wellness and hollistic select! score! 


I will see if I can mail you some coupons to help with whatever brand you decide on!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Yay! LOL. I will be checking out ours locally, and see if we can't decide on a good food TOGETHER lol.


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

you could just throw all the samples on the floor and have him choose! LMAO!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Ha.. Yea... Well I only want grain free, so will see what the stores have as far as samples, and let the two dogs decide together. 

I mean.. I guess I could have her grain free, and him on LBP but.. I think grains are crap, and he deserves better!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Seriously, when's the last time you watched a documentary on wolves and saw them eating rice?


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

<takes a shot of tequila>

<puts fingers in ears>

LALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!!!


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

its a dilemma, because the grainless foods just arent geared toward large breed pups. outside of Orijen its just more advisable to find a food with grains that you can live with.

Wellness specifically warns against feeding Core to pups. this is directly from the FAQ section on the Wellness website: (and it would be nice to see the same warnings from all the other manufacturers of grainless foods)

_*Why is CORE Dog listed as appropriate for maintenance but CORE Cat is listed as all life-stages including cats and kittens?*







We feel very strongly about providing only proven nutrition to your dog. Research has shown that large breed puppies should not be fed a diet that is over 1.3 – 1.5% Calcium or they run a significant risk of developing bone abnormalities. If we listed our CORE Dog diets as suitable for all life stages, we would be irresponsible – knowing inevitably that large breed puppies may be fed these diets (by no fault of their loving owners). In contrast with the CORE Cat diet, there is no supporting evidence that kittens suffer any bone abnormalities from higher calcium levels. We still strived to maintain low mineral content in CORE Cat diet to reduce the occurrence of FLUTD. *







**Why are these diets only for dogs over 1 year of age?*







We care about dogs and their healthful growth. This is one way that we may ensure that large breed puppies do not eat this food. Large and giant breed dogs have special requirements during their growth phase and our mineral levels are higher than these dogs should have._


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

My research is coming up dead. I need to contact these people and petition for lower calcium! LOL. I don't see the point in feeding him something that he doesn't need!!!! Though, seems like completely raw isn't an option financially.


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

VaBeachFamily said:


> My research is coming up dead. I need to contact these people and petition for lower calcium! LOL. I don't see the point in feeding him something that he doesn't need!!!! Though, seems like completely raw isn't an option financially.


i wonder how Orijen manages to have a high meat content grainless food with the right nutrient levels for our pups, but none of the others can manage it.

it is quite possible that Orijen Large Breed Puppy wont cost a lot more to feed than TOTW. i tried TOTW for a brief stint, but when i calculated it out after a month, i only saved about $5 for the month versus feeding the Orijen. why? because TOTW is such a low calorie food (and also possibly poorly utilized by my dog's digestion process) that i had to feed more of it than the Orijen. (there is an almost 100 calorie per cup difference between the two).

Orijen will still likely come out as being more expensive, but it may not be by as much as it appears on the surface.


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

True..
My dogs are always starving.. well Cullen is at least... he think he is to eat every two hours
I will check out what is avail at feed store, i did notice orijen didn't have LBP in stock anywhere today!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

OK.. so random.. 

Is Blue Buffalo grainfree? They have puppy?
Local store has ALL 30 pound bags for 39.88 on sale
just curious


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

VaBeachFamily said:


> *Is Blue Buffalo grainfree?* They have puppy?
> Local store has ALL 30 pound bags for 39.88 on sale
> just curious


They have a new grain free receipe called Wilderness for Dogs
BLUE Buffalo - High Protein Healthy Canned Dog Food


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

betting that isn't for puppies either?


----------



## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

VaBeachFamily said:


> betting that isn't for puppies either?


Since I've never had any of my puppies on puppy food, that's never a concern of mine. 

And all my puppies have grown up just fine on quality adult foods....


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

VaBeachFamily said:


> betting that isn't for puppies either?


 
ive actually emailed them since they only list minimum nutrient levels on their bag (1.3% Ca min). but, its been 3 days, so i may just call them. if the nutrient analysis (as fed) isnt much higher it could work for pups.

the last price i saw for Wilderness didnt make it any cheaper than Orijen (not including their fish or regional red formulas).


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

GRRR Well I am going to check some prices at local feed shops and the beach store that carries them all ( they are always closed Sundays, and that's normally my only day off!) but I will check it out today.. Any last words of advice... Grain Free.... for puppy GSD and 10 year old APBT


----------



## StGeorgeK9 (Jan 5, 2008)

yeah, you may want to share GeorgiaPeaches tequila....... La La La La....... hehehehe. I know all this is a pain, but honestly I think you've got the best information you can for making this decision, it wont be that much more time before the pup can go on an adult food anyway. ah, puppy breath.......I miss puppies.


----------



## roxy84 (Jun 23, 2007)

VaBeachFamily said:


> GRRR Well I am going to check some prices at local feed shops and the beach store that carries them all ( they are always closed Sundays, and that's normally my only day off!) but I will check it out today.. Any last words of advice... Grain Free.... for puppy GSD and 10 year old APBT


 
to be honest, i think its pretty simple. its either Orijen Puppy Large or something with grains in it. of course your 10 yr old could eat any grain free. grains are not proven to harm large breed pups in their growth process, but too much Ca has been proven to cause serious problems.

i know alot of folks seem to like Innova LBP and Wellness Super 5 Large Breed Puppy. i agree with others that there are adult foods w/ grains that are certainly suitable (under 1.8% Ca)


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

OK so... we decided...

We bought Orijen LBP.... and got Gizmo Orijen Senior... if I give one THE BEST, i have to for the other..

SO i am traumatized after spending 130 dollars on dog food!!! But I knew RObin wanted to know what i decided.. just can't go against...

Good thing is.. i got some free samples of the premade raw... yay


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

so glad you picked something!!! I wish I had gone with Orijen...I am such a shmuck! 

you can feel free to still join me for shots of cuervo though! LOL!!!

Please let me know how Cullen likes it! Yeah my husband got all pale in the face when he knew I spent almost 65.00 on Clover's dog food! (and then another 100 on toys at jeffers pet! LMAO!!)


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

So why didn't you stick with Orijen anyways?

Husband felt the same way at first, but when he found out how much I spent today, he just said " if you think that's the best". He is learning fast. And I buy toys a few times a week... and most of my time is spent with the KIDS lol. and sleeping habits are interesting at the moment. But I will post again and let everyone know how they do. Will be transitioning with what I have left of TOTW though, just to make sure!


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

i was talked out of it because of the richness of it. *sigh* oh well! ha!!

check out jefferspet.com GREAT prices!!!! They ship from alabama, I got mine over night!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

orijen? or just in general?
I am always funny, lots of what I can get online seems cheaper, until you factor in the price of shipping! I swear, they will kill you! I will check it though. I think I have a catalog for that place!

I was told at the store today, that as far as RICHNESS, the more rich foods were the EVO and the BG ( before grain) before grain one meal gave my dogs the runs!!!

Another note, I tried pureed veggies mixed with raw today.. gizmo ate slow but ate it... Cullen decided he is going to go without until the morning rather than eat it!


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

i spent 84.00 then got a 5.00 off promo code online and then shipping was 9.85 i think. so it wasnt bad at all really when you look at the prices of their toys!  like the big wubba for 5.89 when they are over twice that at petsmart!  you should see my loot I got for only 85 bucks!


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)




----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Got me there, because I only got like 7 toys at Petsmart for a hundred bucks! Carealot is better.. i spent 130 but had gotten my TOTW dry and canned, lots of toys, treats, leash, collar, tags, etc. Their clearance event is AWESOME I get leather collars for 3-4 bucks, and leashes for 10... all kinds of deals... if you need anything , let me know I will check.. could buy em for ya!


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

hmmm that sounds tempting! i will let you know when i am permitted to spend money on Clover again! LMAO!!!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Yea, it's tempting. I think I might go this weekend and take inventory, just for people like on here who might be interested. Can only get them on weekends... but they have all kinds, even the pet tabs vitamins are clearenced.. any that have a crack in the lid ( even though they are still sealed), but changes every week!!!! cept the leather, they hav a ton, but I wanted mohogany, got tan cause they didn't have mohogany except in the largest collar!


----------



## georgiapeach717 (Jan 28, 2010)

i want a harness for him, and i want one of those training choke collars that only have the chain choke in the front, I also want a green leash and collar (to match his name, lol...lime green is what i want) and I need one of those Lamb skin inserts for his crate (36") to switch out with his snoozie pictured above....

i want i want i want...when does it end?!?! LOL!!


----------



## VaBeachFamily (Apr 12, 2005)

Yea, I want one of the crate pads.. they have some at ROses around here for like 10 bucks... not the wooly lambskin though! LOL. Will keep an eye out... training collars with chain in front? You mean the ones that are like a choker chain but have the nylon? and leashes and collars..

ill let u know what I see this weekend! I am going to check again saturday


----------

