# Supplementing with RAW meat patties



## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

I have just started feeding Bacchus a supplement of raw food. I don't know much about raw food (and am really only familiar with the Abady brand) and never really read much about feeding raw since my past GSD always thrived on Abady and never had a problem w/ being underweight. I went on the recommendation of Pet Pantry (which is an outstanding warehouse dedicated to the mind, body and spirits of our animal friends) to start some kind of raw diet. Our current breeder uses Royal Canin and we stayed with it because he seemed fine with it. We have had several bouts with diarrhea over the last several months, skin problems, etc. but I strongly believe that is due to a thyroid problem that we're currently getting help with now.

Bacchus is awesome GS and we love him dearly. Our vet (who will no longer be our vet once we get conclusive results from his thyroid panel and will be going to a holistic vet once I interview two I have found locally) says his weight is fine... I disagree. Especially since he is not at the average standard sized GSD. When I take him to Pet Pantry, Petco, out for walks people comment on how gorgeous he is and what a beautiful temperament but ask me what are you feeding him, if anything at all with a smile. He *looks* skinny. Now I chalked it up to him still being young (1.5 yrs. old) and needs to "fill out". But in the back of my mind I *always* agreed especially the last six months or so. You can see several of his ribs, the bones in his hind legs/hip area. The Iliac bone I believe. He just does not look healthy and was at 90 lbs. several months ago and now is at 85 (according to the vets scale and 82 according to Pet Pantry's scale). Because of that after he turned a year I decided (although I know it was not good) to leave kibble in his bowl 24/7 just to fatten him up a bit. I am lucky if he east 1.5 cups of kibble with a can of meat these days. (oh and we don’t give him table scraps only if it’s meat, chicken or fish)

Just yesterday I was at Pet Pantry and was told how skinny he looks. I was devasted because I treat all my GSD like I treat my children and give them the best I can possibly give them. I told them how I kept his bowl full 24/7 with kibble and that he only eats once a day (in the evening after our meal) They said to feed him a raw diet. Unfortunately I cannot afford a total raw diet so they suggested supplementation and gave me Stella & Chewy’s??? Any input into this brand would be greatly appreciated. I liked them because it’s easy instead of the meat roll. They come in patties and with a 10 month old and a 4 yr. old quick and convenience is what I need now. My breeder also said to give pasta as well mixed in with his kibble to get some more meat on his bones (as well as the nutritionist at Pet Pantry) also to add B-12 and a enzyme supplement and handed me Prozyme.

He is a big boy (one of the tallest shepherds I have ever had) we measured him with a metal rod recently and stands at 28.5” (H) and 34” (L) 85 lbs. just does not look good on him. My breeder said to me he is bigger than his dad who is 25” (H) and 75 lbs. If his bones did not stick out so I don’t think I would mind so much. But because he is a tall shepherd I do believe he could use at least 6-8 more lbs. on him no more than that. I am hoping once we get his thyroid taken care of and properly medicated he will start to fill out better and look more healthy.

Any other suggestions or ideas would be great.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

I get turkey necks for about $1.15 a lb and can find ground beef for under $2 a lb. That is actually much cheaper than the high end canned foods. Just look for bargains and add about 1/2 lb to a small amount of kibble once a day. That works very well for us.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

Forgot to mention... don't give him pasta. That's just pure junk food for a dog and just coverts to sugar. Cheap meat is loaded with calories and protein which will fill him out nicely. The thyroid issue, once under control should help him a lot too.


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## GSDSunshine (Sep 7, 2009)

A few things. 

I think that a raw diet is great, just know that something premade like stella and chewy's will cast you a lot more than a homemade diet would cost. 

I also don't think adding pasta is at all beneficial to the nutrition of a dog. Adding more food would make more sense than to add a pasta. 

Finally, your dog is still young and while he is tall, his weight doesn't seem extremely underweight. I would want to see a picture from above, and from the side while standing before I would consider him underweight. You don't want to just add more groceries to his diet, because he will just have runny poops and won't absorb additional calories. I would add in a snack in the middle of the day and space out the intake of calories.


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

Relayer said:


> Forgot to mention... don't give him pasta. That's just pure junk food for a dog and just coverts to sugar. Cheap meat is loaded with calories and protein which will fill him out nicely. The thyroid issue, once under control should help him a lot too.


You know what stupid me I should have known that since I am a gym/diet person myself and never eat pasta. How foolish of me.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

yvonneglen said:


> You know what stupid me I should have known that since I am a gym/diet person myself and never eat pasta. How foolish of me.


You aren't stupid, you just realized what that is. Congrats!


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

GSDSunshine said:


> Finally, your dog is still young and while he is tall, his weight doesn't seem extremely underweight. I would want to see a picture from above, and from the side while standing before I would consider him underweight.
> 
> 
> > Here are some pics I just took, I hope they help out a bit. I don't know he looks horribly skinny. When you pet him he is nothing but a sack of bones.


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

So what you're saying is I can get the same benefit from just raw, plain, ground sirloin or turkey mixed in with his kibble?


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## Stosh (Jun 26, 2010)

Our vet specializes in holistic/natural as well as traditional veterinary care and he sells Stella & Chewy treats- our dogs love them! He only sells Nature's Variety food, we feed dry kibble and frozen raw meat patties. He's very conscientious about all natural, no preservative treats so if he carries Stella & Chewy I would think the products have passed his test. That being said, we also add raw meats, bones with meat, Greek yogurt, eggs, cooked sweet potatoes, frozen green beans to supplement, give variety, etc. There's plenty of info on this site!


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

yvonneglen said:


> So what you're saying is I can get the same benefit from just raw, plain, ground sirloin or turkey mixed in with his kibble?


that would be a great place to start! Raw food is easier for a carnivore to digest and with variety has wonderful vitamins, nutrients and minerals. I like to post this link below with three recipes, for people new to supplementing the diet it's a good place to start and from Dr. Pitcairn's. Generally it is accepted you can supplement with up to half real food, without having to be overly concerned about imbalance of nutrients. It can be scary, but once you gain confidence and see the results you will feel much better about it. I would also consider adding a meal, perhaps raw if you like. Pre-made will cost you a fortune with a big brute like him!!lol

http://www.homevet.com/petcare/documents/FreshFoodSupplement.pdf


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

Gib Laut said:


> http://www.homevet.com/petcare/documents/FreshFoodSupplement.pdf


Thank you for the link. Yes, premade costs too much for us and honestly I need something that is fast and convenient as I do have a 11 month old and a 4 yr. old so Bacchus is not my only child 

Does he look overly skinny to you from the pictures I posted or is it all in my mind? I just don't think it is as several people have questioned what I feed him and how much. His bones stick out. I just don't see how the vet can say he looks healthy and it's very upsetting to me.


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## Relayer (Apr 29, 2010)

yvonneglen said:


> So what you're saying is I can get the same benefit from just raw, plain, ground sirloin or turkey mixed in with his kibble?


Yes, of course.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Why not just go back to Abady? You said you fed it for years and the formulas have been improved substantially I was told by a breeder. They were good years ago and better now.


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## Gib Laut (Feb 21, 2010)

yvonneglen said:


> I need something that is fast and convenient as I do have a 11 month old and a 4 yr. old so Bacchus is not my only child
> 
> Does he look overly skinny to you from the pictures I posted or is it all in my mind?


As far as fast goes, you can make some fresh food supplement in batches, freeze and thaw as needed, that way you can set aside some time say monthly to do it....just a thought. Also, you may want to try a better quality food with more meat content, I always recommend grain free. He may have an issue digesting the processed food. 

The only pic that even made me think about it was the overhead one....but, it is really hard to tell. I know my guy who has a much thinner coat sometimes looked similar during growth stages until he filled out at about 2 yrs. I also varied his food intake based on growth spurts, that continued until about 2 years. I increased when needed and when back to normal feeding amounts when needed. You may see a difference as you continue supplementing with the raw. He may need the higher bioavailability of raw food.


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

sable123 said:


> Why not just go back to Abady? You said you fed it for years and the formulas have been improved substantially I was told by a breeder. They were good years ago and better now.


I don't know what I am going to do at this point. My main goal is getting him better physically and mentally as he is not himself. Once I can pinpoint his ailments, if any (and hopefully nothing serious) I can concentrate on his kibble and what kind to use and will looks into Abady again and others. If he does not have a thyroid problem I am thinking perhaps some kind of malabsorption issue with protein and perhaps Royal Canin G.S. 24 does not work well for him. I need to get him better right now. So I am supplementing with raw to get "some meat on his bones" first and go from there.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

*green tripe*

Nothing puts weight on a dog like green tripe as far as raw food goes, nothing. There are several reasons why it does its not just calories. It does wonders for a dog.


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

sable123 said:


> Nothing puts weight on a dog like green tripe as far as raw food goes, nothing. There are several reasons why it does its not just calories. It does wonders for a dog.


I will take a look at their website and read up a bit. Doesn't sound to appetizing...guess it reminds me of the fish tripe and I can't stand tripe..

Thank you for the suggestion.


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

You can buy tripe is a variety places. Green Tripe is not a brand name its the uncleaned stomach of a ruminant. Green tripe is primo stuff.

Omas Pride carries a good green tripe.


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

sable123 said:


> You can buy tripe is a variety places. Green Tripe is not a brand name its the uncleaned stomach of a ruminant. Green tripe is primo stuff.
> 
> Omas Pride carries a good green tripe.


Oh funny enough I googled Green Tripe and there is a website that exists..


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## sable123 (Jul 11, 2010)

Yes its a supplier in California. Many companies sell it. Since there are Omas Pride dealers in many places I mentioned that way to buy it.

www.maryannland.com/Green_tripe.pdf

from whole dog journal


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## Lauri & The Gang (Jun 28, 2001)

yvonneglen said:


> Does he look overly skinny to you from the pictures I posted or is it all in my mind?


Yes, he looks like he could use another 5 pounds or more. His tuck is extreme, his ribs show and his hip bones are too prominent.



> I need something that is fast and convenient as I do have a 11 month old and a 4 yr. old so Bacchus is not my only child


I have 6 dogs (and 4 puppies) and it takes me no more than 15 minutes to weigh everything out, feed them and clean up. I do not use premades (would be WAAY too expensive) .

You can buy in bulk once a month, spend a couple hours one day thawing and bagging everything and then 5 minutes per day feeding (one dog).


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## yvonneglen (Sep 20, 2008)

Lauri & The Gang said:


> Yes, he looks like he could use another 5 pounds or more. His tuck is extreme, his ribs show and his hip bones are too prominent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking a look at him. I appreciate it. I was beginning to think perhaps my former vet thought I was just a bored mommy with nothing else better to do than to take Bacchus to the vets every couple of months in between working and raising two children. I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks he is skinny.

When I talk of other children those other children are not additional fur babies but babies I gave birth too.  Just want to make sure there is no misunderstanding. I don't know about all the preparation. I did not even make homemade baby food for my own children. In any event, our new vet wants me to hold off on the raw diet until we figure out what is wrong with him (may have EPI and or SIBO) and yes, I know raw is probably the best way to go but I have too many variables now at this time and need to concentrate on getting him back to a healthy weight, learn about the management of an EPI dog (if he does have it) then get into the raw feeding regiment, raise two human babies and have a third that may be on the way... :crazy:and whatever else comes my way oh boy........no wonder I drink 5 hour energy drink!


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