# Price and Procedure of Importing A Puppy to the US?



## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

I've narrowed my choice of breeders down to four. The trouble is two of the four happen to not be in the United States, one is in the Czech Republic and the other in Belarus. So, I'm wondering about the price as well as the procedure of importing an 8 week old puppy into the US. This would be my first time doing anything like this.

I haven't talked to the breeders themselves, since I still have about a year or so until until I'm ready to bring this pup home. It just seems to be a bit early to contact anyone and I'm just trying to get a general feel for price range and procedure because it will influence my decision.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

Gradlyn Kennels specializes in transporting animals. Contact them. They can pick up the pup or it can be left with them. They take care of the transportation and make sure it is air controlled. You will need some type of broker or someone to help you through the customs part as well. The transportation and customs help cost me around $1000 from Germany but it insured the safety of my girl and made sure she got here safe.


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## Chip Blasiole (May 3, 2013)

Do you want your future dog for anything other than a pet? You are much better off getting a dog in the states and going to see the parents and evaluating them, especially if you have some specific goals for the dog. A breeder outside the states will send you the dog they want to send you. You should see the parents and then be allowed to choose your own pup based on evaluating the pups. It is ideal to get the first pick of the litter, but often , the breeder will hold the best pup back for himself.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

While I agree with Chip that you do not need to import a dog from Europe - I don't agree that you need to get "first pick"....and also that you have to pick your own puppy!!! 

Each pup is going to be "first pick" based on different criteria for different people...and frankly, when a breeder wants a puppy - that is sort of the point of the breeder making the breeding! The breeder will keep the pup that best meets his needs and desires from the litter - and why shouldn't he?????? But that puppy often is not the puppy every buyer would want anyway! And today, most reputable breeders allocate the puppies to the buyers based on their evaluation of the puppy and the goals of the buyer....I am not going to place a puppy with super hunt drive to a pet home because of a buyer's color preference, when I have a buyer who is looking for a SAR or narcotics dog!! 

The problem is that when you bring one in from Europe, often you WILL be sent a puppy with an issue - you are too far away and it is too expensive to return it.....a few months back a buyer was sent a pup with apparent severe confidence issues, posted here....another lady I know was sent a male with one testicle and she stated she wanted a potential breeding dog...another I know was sent a pup with severe temperament problems....and so on.....a couple of these pups were from HIGHLY HIGHLY well known kennels....

Stay in the US for a pup....develop a relationship with a breeder and wait for a pup that meets your needs....

Lee


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I just noticed you were going to try to import an 8 week old pup. That will be hard. They have to have shots to get through customs - at least rabies and 8 weeks old is too young. I know they made me wait from Germany until she had hers. Other countries could be different. I also got mine from a trusted friend that lives in Germany and imports dogs for police and SAR dogs so he was familiar with all the breeders. He was a big help because he was my eyes on the ground so to speak because I couldn't go to Germany. He knew what I wanted and picked two to give me a choice from.


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

I think it depends on where the pup is coming from and who is shipping it. I know three people that all got dogs/puppies from the same kennel in Belgium and didn't have to use brokers or a middle man for shipping and the total cost (including shipping) was comparable to what you'd pay for a puppy in the US before shipping.


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## Smithie86 (Jan 9, 2001)

For customs clearance, we have always used Barthco (now OHL International). They might be a bit more than others, but are heads and above everyone else in experience, sense of urgency and follow through.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Having to use brokers depend on what airport you ship into...the shippers notify a broker that a pup is coming in and the brokers will call you to arrange the delivery - OFTEN not giving you a choice because that is their business and they do not want anyone clearing their own puppy. When I had dogs shipped directly in my city, I cleared them myself...if they were coming in through Philly, DC or Atlanta I was forced to use a broker - even if I could be there to meet the plane....

So I shipped into Toronto and had the dog consigned to friends who picked it up....it was cheaper anyway!

Lee


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

I will keep in mind your words, but as I've said before I haven't chosen anyone yet. As of right now I'm comparing prices as well as possible risks, and just getting opinions from different folks. I am aware that the breeder would be sending me the first pick pup(whatever that means), especially with me being such a newbie in dog sports. None of the breeders I'm considering are in the same state as I am, and to be frank, I don't have the cash to constantly fly out to check out out of state dogs and various litters. 

I'm pretty much going on the words of people that I know personally and have discussed with them what I want in a dog, I trust their experience over my lack there of, but the more view points I have the better. 



wolfstraum said:


> The problem is that when you bring one in from Europe, often you WILL be sent a puppy with an issue - you are too far away and it is too expensive to return it.....a few months back a buyer was sent a pup with apparent severe confidence issues, posted here....another lady I know was sent a male with one testicle and she stated she wanted a potential breeding dog...another I know was sent a pup with severe temperament problems....and so on.....a couple of these pups were from HIGHLY HIGHLY well known kennels....
> 
> Stay in the US for a pup....develop a relationship with a breeder and wait for a pup that meets your needs....
> 
> Lee


But this happens in the US as well. It seems to be a crap shoot regardless of what you do, and who you know. There are always individuals who are dishonest. Would you mind PMing me the names of those " HIGHLY HIGHLY well known kennels" that are sending crappy pups to US buyers? As I've said I have a year before I'll be ready to bring the pup home, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna buy the first pretty, big-headed, black sable or whatever's the rage no- a-days.

I'm looking for a dog I can put time into training, as I'm new to this and will make mistakes. I need a dog that's stable, isn't sensitive to loud noises, aggressive to large animals, or weird environments. I don't need some over the top high drive dog, this dog will be a pet that happens to do dog sports. I'm currently visiting a training club that trains for schutzhund, mondioring, PSA, and other dogs sports. I'm checking out all of these possible venues, but to be quite honest tracking and nose work is where my interests lie.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Out of curiosity, how did you settle on these breeders if you haven't spoken to them?

I ask for a couple of reasons: first, I always try to shoot an email to breeders that I'm considering. There have been a couple that I dropped off my shortlist after initial communication because they were not people I could see myself having a long relationship with, and there were others that rocketed to the top of my list because their love and knowledge of the breed shone through in every word they said.

Second, I've been looking into imports too (not for GSDs -- I would never import a GSD, as I think there are many wonderful working dogs to be found in that breed domestically -- but _if_ I go with a working Terv then there's a fair chance that I'll have to import the dog from Europe) and, wow, it's more than a little intimidating to a newbie! So I'm interested in how other people decide which programs are producing dogs they like. Judging from afar, it can be hard to tell.

The lack of breeder support is a concern for me when I think about imports. I really like having access to someone who knows more than I do, who can explain to me the breeding program in detail and what they expect from the litter and why. I also like having someone who's (almost!) as excited about my dog's successes as I am. It's fun to share good news about a pup. 

I honestly don't think that it's a crapshoot to get a good puppy out of a breeder in the U.S., though, especially if you have a whole year to look and can visit clubs and see the dogs working in person.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

Merciel said:


> Out of curiosity, how did you settle on these breeders if you haven't spoken to them?
> 
> I ask for a couple of reasons: first, I always try to shoot an email to breeders that I'm considering. There have been a couple that I dropped off my shortlist after initial communication because they were not people I could see myself having a long relationship with, and there were others that rocketed to the top of my list because their love and knowledge of the breed shone through in every word they said.
> 
> ...


I haven't really spoken to two foreign breeders aside from a prospective email asking general questions about their breeding program. When I say "I haven't spoken to them," I mean I haven't sat and had a serious conversation with them over the phone. This is something I won't be doing until I'm relatively close to when I'm ready to bring the pup home. I don't want to bother a breeder, while being a year or so away from being in a position to actually purchase a pup. The two breeders in state, I have spoken to extensively. My narrowing of my list has been made through observations of dogs from their kennels, as well as breeding practices that I found myself not agreeing with(one of the breeders I was considering was using a brood bitch that has a known allergy to chicken which has passed to a few pups). I've met some owners with dogs from one of the foreign breeders, and I'm trying to get up some meeting with owners of the other breeders dogs. With that said, I'm just trying to gather more information and an approximation on what I want to spend. 

Of course I'm looking within the US as well, I'm not totally set on importing a pup as I've mentioned above, though people seem to be jumping the gun on that one. I just know that it is possible to find what I want outside the US as well.


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## lalachka (Aug 13, 2013)

How did you find out about the bitch with allergy to chicken? Is someone admitting to doing this?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Belarus!? There is nothing good ever came from Belarus, except the radioactive potatoes if that's your cup of tea...


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

Glacier said:


> I haven't really spoken to two foreign breeders aside from a prospective email asking general questions about their breeding program. When I say "I haven't spoken to them," I mean I haven't sat and had a serious conversation with them over the phone. This is something I won't be doing until I'm relatively close to when I'm ready to bring the pup home. I don't want to bother a breeder, while being a year or so away from being in a position to actually purchase a pup.


Oh, gotcha, thanks for the explanation. I totally agree and have been trying to do the same thing (although it's hard because I get over-excited and keep wanting to accelerate my timetable beyond what's really reasonable for me).

That's interesting about the chicken allergy. I would avoid that too. In the grand scheme of things it might not be a big deal, but unless it's a truly phenomenal world-class dog, why take the risk?


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

Both, and Belarus, and Czech GSDs (majority of them) are larger in size Easten German types with more horisontal spinal cord, what is good about them - the Easten dogs are dysplasia free. It is enough of reason for you to pay for transportation if you can. Your puppy must be chipped and you should have the vet check report in the vet passport of two weeks before the flight. Invite the breeder to be your guest, see what happens, at his own cost, together with the puppy...


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

lalachka said:


> How did you find out about the bitch with allergy to chicken? Is someone admitting to doing this?
> 
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Several pups out of that particular female have acquired the allergy as well as the breeder themselves has confirmed the allergy in the bitch.



Merciel said:


> Oh, gotcha, thanks for the explanation. I totally agree and have been trying to do the same thing (although it's hard because I get over-excited and keep wanting to accelerate my timetable beyond what's really reasonable for me).
> 
> That's interesting about the chicken allergy. I would avoid that too. In the grand scheme of things it might not be a big deal, but unless it's a truly phenomenal world-class dog, why take the risk?


The chicken allergy thing is something I'd rather not deal with. There so much 'hidden' poultry in foods, why even take the risk? Not to mention chicken and fish are a staple in my house hold.

As for the communication with the breeder, I get excited too, but I don't want to annoy them, lol.



alexg said:


> Belarus!? There is nothing good ever came from Belarus, except the radioactive potatoes if that's your cup of tea...


I do enjoy a good healthy iridescent glow on my potatoes, bonus points if I have to fight them to get them into a pot.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I am not even sure where Belarus is-and when people say breeder support what are they expecting-just curious


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

holland said:


> I am not even sure where Belarus is-and when people say breeder support what are they expecting-just curious


It's relatively close to Russia, I believe. I expect for the breeder to provide me registration papers and a healthy pup. It would be ideal if they wouldn't mind sharing information and quirks about their lines, but I can always talk to someone else familiar with the lines about that. As for as guarantees, I'm not hung up on that. Dogs are living creatures, and as I've said this is a pet first and sport dog second.


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## Merciel (Apr 25, 2013)

holland said:


> when people say breeder support what are they expecting-just curious


For me, I guess I really just want somebody to be as enthusiastic and excited about the dog as I am. 

I don't anticipate needing a lot of help with basic puppy-raising and training stuff -- I've been through that a few times and, honestly, there aren't _too_ many issues that I would expect to have genuine problems handling. But you never know for sure, and there's always a possibility of unexpected health or temperament issues, and it gives me some peace of mind to know that if I ever DID have a spasm of "oh my god what have I done?!" 3 am panic, I could pick up the phone and call the breeder and just have somebody to talk me down from the ledge.

Again, I don't expect to _need_ it, but just knowing that it's there would make me feel better. For me, it's nice to have that safety net.

Mainly though I'm excited about the possibilities of doing things (lots of things!) with Imaginary Future Puppy and I want to have somebody who will receive the brags and pictures and be excited right along with me. I want the doggy equivalent of proud grandparents who will be totally stoked to hang the fingerpaintings on their fridge.

Yeah, it's small, but it's still a thing I care about.


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Is there really any line/subtype of GSD that is dysplasia free? (if there is and evidence to back that up, I'm on board! but...)

Even if the eastern dogs were HD free -100%- at some point since the iron curtain came down there's been some changes in breeding protocols? Yes?

I would be careful, bad enough people think working lines in general are HD proof......




David Taggart said:


> Both, and Belarus, and Czech GSDs (majority of them) are larger in size Easten German types with more horisontal spinal cord, what is good about them - *the Easten dogs are dysplasia free*. It is enough of reason for you to pay for transportation if you can. Your puppy must be chipped and you should have the vet check report in the vet passport of two weeks before the flight. Invite the breeder to be your guest, see what happens, at his own cost, together with the puppy...


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't believe any GSD is HD free -or everyone would be buying them-lol-


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

I got my boy from Czech breeder in Czech. It does help that i'm also Czech  .But I did not know the breeder personally. I paid $800 for pup and shipping fee was I believe $600 through PetAir (German Company). Pup arrive on JFK airlines give my paperwork and I had to go to customs with paperwork, when custom check all papers, I could get puppy. He was and continue to be in perfect health. In leas then months after puppy I received registration for him. (Czech registration) I'm really happy with my choice, but I did hear a lot of scary stories about dogs from oversea.


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## David Taggart (Nov 25, 2012)

> Is there really any line/subtype of GSD that is dysplasia free?


Let me tell you the story you wouldn't find Google, but it's believable. The Soviet Army had cleared German kennels after the war, they didn't even take these dogs very far - to Belarus - still, it was them, who announced a "new breed". It was a cunning trick on behalf of the Soviets, because geographically Germany is the East European country. Well, it's all these politics, the politics are painting our dogs! How awful. 
Modern genetics help with lines. These programmes are going on for quite a while:
Czech & American German Shepherds.Does the Breed Influence Differences? | Booksforever1blog. BarkUpToday!
If you wish to widen your knowledge about EGSD:
Home


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

some very ???? ideas cited....

Czech dogs are not HD free....sorry - they have the same incidence of HD and ED as other geographically locked types....I know a National Competitor dog from CR with elbow HD personally..another 2 or 3 with HD that are imports...

Waiting until you are ready to buy to open dialog is probably going to make your wait to get a pup longer...start earlier - and get a relationship with breeder and then you will be more likely to get what you are looking for....Since you are in CA, I would try to find a pup there - with the crazy laws, I am sure there are breeders who are loathe to ship to CA....and it is only getting worse.

Allergies are not always genetic, lots of dogs have food allergies, seems like research is indicating that there are many vaccine related problems - also, given the crap and chemicals in foods - I think it is hard to pin down an allergy exactly. Also, if you threw every dog out of the gene pool whose family had allergies, had produced HD or ED in a litter, etc...there would be nothing left....

Lee


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

David Taggart said:


> Let me tell you the story you wouldn't find Google, but it's believable. The Soviet Army had cleared German kennels after the war, they didn't even take these dogs very far - to Belarus - still, it was them, who announced a "new breed". It was a cunning trick on behalf of the Soviets, because geographically Germany is the East European country. Well, it's all these politics, the politics are painting our dogs! How awful.
> Modern genetics help with lines. These programmes are going on for quite a while:
> Czech & American German Shepherds.Does the Breed Influence Differences? | Booksforever1blog. BarkUpToday!
> If you wish to widen your knowledge about EGSD:
> Home



That is a blog - and right off the bat I see statements that are misleading and inconclusive...it is not fact, it is not scientific documentation...it is someone's thoughts and conclusions....

I have some nice sunny land to sell up in northern Canada where it is always summer time ~ I think you should buy it too!

Lee


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## Gwenhwyfair (Jul 27, 2010)

Well it was a sincere question, I'm a big believer of 'if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't true'. :shrug:

(In addition to Lee's comments.)

There was a man on PDB that was gathering a data sheet on this but the problem is they were really heavily culling dogs, the west too back in the day.

Now strict culling can certainly reduce the overall incidence but we really don't know, because dogs were culled it follows that some dogs were born with HD but not used in the data set. Also since there really isn't a geopolitical separation between west and east Europe for quite some time now a lot of intermingling of lines has been going on.

So maybe lower incidence but I think that some of this is statistical smoke and mirrors clouded by time and the former iron curtain.





David Taggart said:


> Let me tell you the story you wouldn't find Google, but it's believable. The Soviet Army had cleared German kennels after the war, they didn't even take these dogs very far - to Belarus - still, it was them, who announced a "new breed". It was a cunning trick on behalf of the Soviets, because geographically Germany is the East European country. Well, it's all these politics, the politics are painting our dogs! How awful.
> Modern genetics help with lines. These programmes are going on for quite a while:
> Czech & American German Shepherds.Does the Breed Influence Differences? | Booksforever1blog. BarkUpToday!
> If you wish to widen your knowledge about EGSD:
> Home


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> some very ???? ideas cited....
> 
> Czech dogs are not HD free....sorry - they have the same incidence of HD and ED as other geographically locked types....I know a National Competitor dog from CR with elbow HD personally..another 2 or 3 with HD that are imports...
> 
> ...


Allergies are not always genetic, I am aware of that, but they can be. Why take the risk? I wouldn't return a dog for allergies, I thought the point of research was stack the deck in your favor?

I am prepared to wait for the right dog, I want to take my time, but I don't want to waste anyone else's time either. I am prepared to wait, it's no biggie, I have plenty of time. I have yet to talk to any breeder in the US that doesn't want to ship to California. Yes there is that mandatory spay and neuter law, but there are very clear cut ways of getting around that. 

What is it that you are trying to push me to do exactly? First you attempt to dissuade me from importing(fine, valid reasons though I do not agree), now I should look within my state only for a dog because of stupid laws? Is there something I don't know going on here? I figure I'm doing the right thing by researching, and talking to people, but why limit my search to one state or country?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Glacier said:


> Allergies are not always genetic, I am aware of that, but they can be. Why take the risk? I wouldn't return a dog for allergies, I thought the point of research was stack the deck in your favor?
> 
> I am prepared to wait for the right dog, I want to take my time, but I don't want to waste anyone else's time either. I am prepared to wait, it's no biggie, I have plenty of time. I have yet to talk to any breeder in the US that doesn't want to ship to California. Yes there is that mandatory spay and neuter law, but there are very clear cut ways of getting around that.
> 
> What is it that you are trying to push me to do exactly? First you attempt to dissuade me from importing(fine, valid reasons though I do not agree), now I should look within my state only for a dog because of stupid laws? Is there something I don't know going on here? I figure I'm doing the right thing by researching, and talking to people, but why limit my search to one state or country?



you just met one...I have one dog in CA and the owner has had major issues keeping the dog intact...she may have given up and neutered him by now....won't send another one there...too much government interference, too many GSDs ending up in shelters - and I bet some of those dogs have gotten out or been surrendered because of the huge fines for being intact...

I think there are several breeders in your State who breed good working dogs....having a brain blip....husband and wife - she actually had Mink h Wittfield originally....Anne Kent...go to some clubs there and get help finding a pup...if you want to train, find a club first - get to know the people and get someone there to help you get a pup...if you are serious about training, then you will get a pup worth training with this route...

In fact, I have told many people who are novices to get in a club first, and let the club trainer help them buy a pup...in that way, the trainer has a vested interest in the owner doing well with the pup....in some clubs, if you bring in a pup from outside and are a newbie, there can be some resentment or skepticism about the pup's ability as often, there were some good pups available that they would have liked to see be trained in the club! I have passed on sales due to this, as I knew that there were litters within the group.....a few months back, I was at a trial....one of the members had been interested in a pup from my litter sired by the TD's male, and he was told by the TD to get one of my pups....then he said family issues prevented him from buying the pup....so 18 months later, the dog I would have sold him was doing his AD with the TD biking him....another club member who had tried unsuccessfully to bred to the male heard a sentence or two when we were talking about the litter...and she came right out and said - "I WOULD NOT LET HIM BUY YOUR PUP - IF HE WAS GETTING A PUP - IT WAS GOING TO BE ONE OF MINE!!! " Direct quote, and now I wonder....he ended up getting an older dog with no papers given to him....So anyway - that is why I tell people in some clubs to go through the TDs there...

Lee


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

David Taggart said:


> Let me tell you the story you wouldn't find Google, but it's believable. The Soviet Army had cleared German kennels after the war, they didn't even take these dogs very far - to Belarus - still, it was them, who announced a "new breed". It was a cunning trick on behalf of the Soviets, because geographically Germany is the East European country. Well, it's all these politics, the politics are painting our dogs! How awful.
> Modern genetics help with lines. These programmes are going on for quite a while:
> Czech & American German Shepherds.Does the Breed Influence Differences? | Booksforever1blog. BarkUpToday!
> If you wish to widen your knowledge about EGSD:
> Home


The Soviets also stole the BMW motorcycle design (as of 1939 )and to this day are still making so-called russian made Ural. You won't confuse that POS with Yamaha. Soviets managed to botch anything that falls into their hands, Belarus is the most backward place in the Eastern Europe and practically IS a part of Russia even though on paper is an independent country.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> you just met one...I have one dog in CA and the owner has had major issues keeping the dog intact...she may have given up and neutered him by now....won't send another one there...too much government interference, too many GSDs ending up in shelters - and I bet some of those dogs have gotten out or been surrendered because of the huge fines for being intact...
> 
> I think there are several breeders in your State who breed good working dogs....having a brain blip....husband and wife - she actually had Mink h Wittfield originally....Anne Kent...go to some clubs there and get help finding a pup...if you want to train, find a club first - get to know the people and get someone there to help you get a pup...if you are serious about training, then you will get a pup worth training with this route...
> 
> ...


That's unfortunate, are all schutzhund clubs like this? The two clubs(though one would just be considered a training group) I've talked to are all breed club, and it did sound like they had such an off the wall requirements like this. I doubt I would want to join a club with such immature thinking. This is unsettling.

Going back to the law, wouldn't I be able to use this exemption? This was copied from the County of Los Angeles Animal Care and Control website.

*Exemptions to the Ordinance*
There are exemptions to the Ordinance as some dogs cannot be spayed or neutered for certain reasons. They are:


Dogs that are unable to be spayed or neutered without a high likelihood of suffering serious bodily harm or death due to age or infirmity. Written confirmation from a licensed veterinarian is required to qualify for this exception.
Dogs used by law enforcement agencies for law enforcement purposes.
Service or assistance dogs that assist disabled persons.
Competition dogs. A Competition Dog is a dog which is used to show, to compete, or to breed that is of a breed recognized by and registered with the American Kennel Club (AKC), United Kennel Club (UKC), American Dog Breeders Association (ADBA), or other approved breed registries. The dog or owner must also meet ONE of the following requirements:
The dog has competed in at least one dog show or sporting competition sanctioned by a national registry or approved by the department within the last 365 days; or
The dog has earned a conformation, obedience, agility, carting, herding, protection, rally, sporting, working, or other title from a purebred dog registry referenced above or other registry or dog sport association approved by the department; or
The owner or custodian of the dog is a member of a department‑approved purebred dog breed clubs, which maintains and enforces a code of ethics for dog breeding that includes restrictions from breeding dogs with genetic defects and life threatening health problems that commonly threaten the breed.
 
Would I not quality for #4 because of intend on trailing my dog in AKC sports as well as applying for membership with an AKC Tracking(my interest is more so tracking than the protection aspect of Sch.) Club?


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

I don't live in California..I know that there is a great deal of discussion and dissatisfaction about the laws there...you need to discuss this with people there....

People are people - it is not club specific or a rule or requirement....it is human nature and drama. I can cite incident after incident - and yet, some clubs/groups just like to see a good dog brought in....there is no rhyme or reason.... It is hard to get started in this sport, and if you want to train, take every advantage you can....If you want to get started in training, my suggestions were intended to give you an advantage in getting started.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> I don't live in California..I know that there is a great deal of discussion and dissatisfaction about the laws there...you need to discuss this with people there....
> 
> People are people - it is not club specific or a rule or requirement....it is human nature and drama. I can cite incident after incident - and yet, some clubs/groups just like to see a good dog brought in....there is no rhyme or reason.... It is hard to get started in this sport, and if you want to train, take every advantage you can....If you want to get started in training, my suggestions were intended to give you an advantage in getting started.


I can see that and I do appreciate the insight, but I can't see myself being part of any organization ran that way. I'd rather not do the sport at all than go though all that drama for a hobby, and that's what it is for me a hobby. If the clubs I come across indeed have this toxic behavior, I'll just pass them up.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

wolfstraum said:


> you just met one...I have one dog in CA and the owner has had major issues keeping the dog intact...she may have given up and neutered him by now....won't send another one there...too much government interference, too many GSDs ending up in shelters - and I bet some of those dogs have gotten out or been surrendered because of the huge fines for being intact...
> 
> I think there are several breeders in your State who breed good working dogs....having a brain blip....husband and wife - she actually had Mink h Wittfield originally....Anne Kent...go to some clubs there and get help finding a pup...if you want to train, find a club first - get to know the people and get someone there to help you get a pup...if you are serious about training, then you will get a pup worth training with this route...
> 
> ...


As I former member of the club that you are speaking about-my dog did not come from a breeder within the club-the TD as well as other members in the club liked my dog and no one discriminated against me for having a dog bred outside the club-in fact that was never an issue in any of the clubs I belonged to. I think most clubs will just recognize a good dog-her name is Aurora v Eichenluft-she is the first Kougars niece-from his mother line:wub:


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Oh and she has Fero in her pedigree too


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Glacier said:


> I can see that and I do appreciate the insight, but I can't see myself being part of any organization ran that way. I'd rather not do the sport at all than go though all that drama for a hobby, and that's what it is for me a hobby. If the clubs I come across indeed have this toxic behavior, I'll just pass them up.



It is not club wide - and in every club...in that specific case, one person wanted to have a litter with the same male and wanted people already in the club to buy them...and that is common. Don't assume it is everyone, but only that it happens, and in certain clubs where a prominent (within the club) member breeds alot, then you are better off getting a pup from them.


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## asja (Mar 22, 2011)

Glacier said:


> I've narrowed my choice of breeders down to four. The trouble is two of the four happen to not be in the United States, one is in the Czech Republic and the other in Belarus. So, I'm wondering about the price as well as the procedure of importing an 8 week old puppy into the US. This would be my first time doing anything like this.
> 
> I haven't talked to the breeders themselves, since I still have about a year or so until until I'm ready to bring this pup home. It just seems to be a bit early to contact anyone and I'm just trying to get a general feel for price range and procedure because it will influence my decision.


You could fly to Europe, check out the breeders, buy your puppy, and fly the puppy back yourself. If the puppy is small enough, you can carry him/her in the cabin, otherwise in a crate as extra baggage. The last time I brought a dog back in 2006, it cost about $120 to fly my dog from Frankfurt to JFK. I just needed a health certificate from Germany and of course, a German customs official had to put an official stamp on her papers. That was it, I picked her up in JFK, went through the red line, the customs man checked her health certificate, and let us go. 

Go see Europe, it's more fun anyway.


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## GSDNVR (Sep 13, 2013)

im buying an 8 week old GSD pup from a well known kennel in europe. The travel arrangements total 29 hours to the USA including a 15 hour layover/flight change in amsterdam. Have any of you experienced this with a puppy? AM i overly concerned? or is this abnormally long? I live in major merto area on east coast, not like its shipping to FIji or timbuktu..



Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

My girl flew nonstop on Luftansa with the help of Gradlyn Kennels. They arranged the flight so it would be nonstop and air controlled. It took 17 hours from Germany to Miami to my house and I thought that seemed like a long time. The hardest part was knowing she was on the ground in the US and having to wait for customs. They will usually give the dogs water if they have a water dish attached to the crate but no food. I swear when my girl got here she could jump 6 feet straight into the air with happiness of being out of that kennel. Needles to say the pee pad they put in the crate was soaked so when you go to pick up your puppy be sure to take a few rag towels and an extra collar and leash so you can clean out the kennel before continuing on to your house if it is a very long way. Sometimes the collars they ship the pups with aren't all that great so you need to be prepared. Also after that long don't feed a whole bunch right away. Let the pup settle then offer a little food at a time.


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wolfstraum said:


> you just met one...I have one dog in CA and the owner has had major issues keeping the dog intact...she may have given up and neutered him by now....won't send another one there...too much government interference, too many GSDs ending up in shelters - and I bet some of those dogs have gotten out or been surrendered because of the huge fines for being intact...


What??? Do I have to cross you off my short list? :wild:

I know there are laws in California requiring shelters and rescues to speuter before adopting out animals. I'm not aware of any laws that apply to pets from a breeder or private party, at least not state-wide, there may be some counties with special requirements. 

I certainly wasn't under any pressure to speuter my dogs, I did it when I wanted to, and because I wanted to - Keefer at 15 months old, and Halo at 13 months old, after her first heat. Dena and Cassidy were also spayed after their first heats. I don't have any interest in keeping my dogs intact indefinitely, and I do know that some breeders prefer that you do, unless there's a pressing medical reason to speuter.


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

Paisley also flew Luftansa with Gradlyn Kennels. It was 800 euros (approx) and she couldn't fly til 10 weeks old. We did not have to use a broker (SFO). And yes, she was a dirty, smelly mess when she got here. We did not have any problems with her breeder. I got emails (mostly) each week with pictures and updates.

My one complaint was with Gradlyn. I had sent my credit card info to them weeks before she was to ship. I woke up the morning before she was to get here at like 6 am Pacific and had several emails from them that my credit card didn't go through. Well, I had put a notice for my credit card for a large purchase from Germany, but that was weeks before. I couldn't do much until my bank opened and I had a rather perturbed person in Germany who had to stay late because the card wouldn't go through (and it does take time after you tell them to approve a charge for it to actually populate whatever systems they had). She also kept trying to tell me that they wouldn't pick up my puppy if this didn't get figured out. By the time we were getting all this figured out, I was on the road to stay by the airport and it was really stressful. Next time, I would make sure Gradlyn charged my credit card well before she was supposed to ship. My thought was - they do this all the time and I am sure I wasn't the first person who had to call their bank again to get this type of purchase re-approved, so why wait until the last minute to do so?


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

mspiker03 said:


> Paisley also flew Luftansa with Gradlyn Kennels. It was 800 euros (approx) and she couldn't fly til 10 weeks old. We did not have to use a broker (SFO). And yes, she was a dirty, smelly mess when she got here. We did not have any problems with her breeder. I got emails (mostly) each week with pictures and updates.
> 
> My one complaint was with Gradlyn. I had sent my credit card info to them weeks before she was to ship. I woke up the morning before she was to get here at like 6 am Pacific and had several emails from them that my credit card didn't go through. Well, I had put a notice for my credit card for a large purchase from Germany, but that was weeks before. I couldn't do much until my bank opened and I had a rather perturbed person in Germany who had to stay late because the card wouldn't go through (and it does take time after you tell them to approve a charge for it to actually populate whatever systems they had). She also kept trying to tell me that they wouldn't pick up my puppy if this didn't get figured out. By the time we were getting all this figured out, I was on the road to stay by the airport and it was really stressful. Next time, I would make sure Gradlyn charged my credit card well before she was supposed to ship. My thought was - they do this all the time and I am sure I wasn't the first person who had to call their bank again to get this type of purchase re-approved, so why wait until the last minute to do so?


I had exactly same problem. I had a feeling paying for shipping may be problem, so I told the breeder if he can make airlines to charge card little advance. And sore enough it wouldn't yo through. My card company call and asked if I want to approve the charge.


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## pyratemom (Jan 10, 2011)

I actually did pay Gradlyn way in advance and had no problem.


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## andreaB (Nov 6, 2011)

pyratemom said:


> I actually did pay Gradlyn way in advance and had no problem.


PetAir wanted to charge my card just before the flight. Arrangement with the breeder was that I pay for shipping. It was not included in price of pup. It felt actually good to have credit company to check the charge.


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## wolfstraum (May 2, 2003)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> What??? Do I have to cross you off my short list? :wild:
> 
> I know there are laws in California requiring shelters and rescues to speuter before adopting out animals. I'm not aware of any laws that apply to pets from a breeder or private party, at least not state-wide, there may be some counties with special requirements.


There are always exceptions!!!! And you would be one!

  


Lee


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

wolfstraum said:


> There are always exceptions!!!! And you would be one!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awwwww. :wub: :hugs:


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## mspiker03 (Dec 7, 2006)

andreaB said:


> PetAir wanted to charge my card just before the flight. Arrangement with the breeder was that I pay for shipping. It was not included in price of pup. It felt actually good to have credit company to check the charge.


Don't get me wrong - I am glad my credit card company doesn't automatically approve 800 euro charges from Germany. But, one would think that Gradlyn Kennel (who does this often), is aware of that and would try charging the cards at least a few days in advance and not hours before they are supposed to pick up the puppy in case there is a problem charging the card (knowing the time difference). I had given them my card info about two weeks before Paisley was to be shipped. I also wasn't a fan of the attitude (I am working late and I am tired and want to go home). Well, then you shouldn't have waited until the last minute to take care of this because there wasn't anything I could have done in the middle of the night (my time) when I started getting the emails.


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## Glacier (Feb 25, 2009)

Cassidy's Mom said:


> What??? Do I have to cross you off my short list? :wild:
> 
> I know there are laws in California requiring shelters and rescues to speuter before adopting out animals. I'm not aware of any laws that apply to pets from a breeder or private party, at least not state-wide, there may be some counties with special requirements.
> 
> I certainly wasn't under any pressure to speuter my dogs, I did it when I wanted to, and because I wanted to - Keefer at 15 months old, and Halo at 13 months old, after her first heat. Dena and Cassidy were also spayed after their first heats. I don't have any interest in keeping my dogs intact indefinitely, and I do know that some breeders prefer that you do, unless there's a pressing medical reason to speuter.


Neither did I, that short exert I posted was the only thing that would possibly appy to me in my county. Now I know other counties have different ordinances, so it depends on the area.



pyratemom said:


> My girl flew nonstop on Luftansa with the help of Gradlyn Kennels. They arranged the flight so it would be nonstop and air controlled. It took 17 hours from Germany to Miami to my house and I thought that seemed like a long time. The hardest part was knowing she was on the ground in the US and having to wait for customs. They will usually give the dogs water if they have a water dish attached to the crate but no food. I swear when my girl got here she could jump 6 feet straight into the air with happiness of being out of that kennel. Needles to say the pee pad they put in the crate was soaked so when you go to pick up your puppy be sure to take a few rag towels and an extra collar and leash so you can clean out the kennel before continuing on to your house if it is a very long way. Sometimes the collars they ship the pups with aren't all that great so you need to be prepared. Also after that long don't feed a whole bunch right away. Let the pup settle then offer a little food at a time.


Thanks for the information this was quite helpful. At Lee's prompting I've started contacting the breeder and most have been very informative which cuts my list down to three.


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## endless5 (May 14, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you, Glacier. Esp considering we're in the same city.

I'll be in the same boat in 2-3 years when I start looking for a GSD  A lot more research to do!


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