# Looking for breeder of large GSD-midwest



## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

Can anyone offer recommendations for AKC large breed GSD. Please save the large GSD bashing. Recently lost our beloved Gunner. No dog.. I mean no dog will ever compare to him but I wish to get as close as possible :-(
Prefer midwest but willing to go farther. I have found several breeders and narrowing my selection but would like any first hand recomendations anyone may offer. 

Thanks


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

What do you consider large?

And more importantly... what kind of temperament are you looking for? What kind of goals do you have for the dog? What are you looking for in a dog? Any line preference? Color? Try to be specific as possible.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

Just buy any GSD then overfeed it and you have yourself a large breed GSD.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

TheNamesNelson said:


> Just buy any GSD then overfeed it and you have yourself a large breed GSD.



geeze, i think the OP asked to be spared the large breed bashing? play nice. i'm pretty interested in this thread myself as i've grown a really deep love of my large size gsd rescues. wonderful dogs. 

dw


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Well, I would think a quick google search will pop up many .
Just type in "old fashioned" and I bet 10-20 over-sized GSD breeders will appear. 
Sorry for the loss of your beloved Gunner. I hope he lived to an old age and wasn't compromised health-wise due to his structure/size.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

onyx'girl said:


> Well, I would think a quick google search will pop up many .
> Just type in "old fashioned" and I bet 10-20 oversized GSD breeders will appear.
> 
> *Why ask on this forum for any help when you clearly know what the opinion is on your request? *
> Sorry for the loss of your beloved Gunner. I hope he lived to an old age and wasn't compromised due to his structure/size.


Good post. 
To the OP, search also for "Shiloh Shepherd" and you may get a dog breeder who has dogs like the one in your avatar.


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## TheNamesNelson (Apr 4, 2011)

Dragonwyke said:


> geeze, i think the OP asked to be spared the large breed bashing? play nice.
> dw


It wasn't my intention to say anything bad about large breed shepherds. I was just poking at some users who have overweight dogs and claim them as "above standard" or large breed.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

rlb, you might want to go through this thread - http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

And use that information when looking at the breeders you've chosen. If you're looking for personal experience with the breeders I doubt you'll find too much here, since the folks here tend to go for the "traditional" GSDs (within the breed standards that is).


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

rlb1130 said:


> Recently lost our beloved Gunner.


if you don't mind my asking, how did you lose your Gunner? i am sorry for your loss. it's a terrible thing to have a good friend pass. 

dw


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I doubt you'll find too much here, since the folks here tend to go for the "traditional" GSDs (within the breed standards that is).


unbelievably, i again, find myself in agreement w/msvette, ROTFL. i have oversized gsd's myself, but they're all rescues. i have no idea who their breeders were, where they came from, or what their histories are before coming to me. i do know their size and structures have caused them NO ill health or bone problems at all. i also know i adore them. 

dw


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## sddeadeye (Apr 5, 2011)

What state do you live in? I am sure people will be able point out some reputable GSD breeders in your area. Even breeders who stick with the standard will occassionally produce large pups. What do you consider large? How big was your Gunnar?

I agree with the Shiloh shepherd suggestion too. Especially if you are interested in a larger, long coated dog.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

You can also check Pet adoption: Want a dog or cat? Adopt a pet on Petfinder 

I know nothing of this rescue (are they good or not) but here is a 90# boy in the Midwest who needs a foster: http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/22587340
1.









2.
Zoiks!

















http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/22610543

3.
oohhhhhh...








   
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/22271240

I was in an obedience class with a woman who got a King Shepherd as a puppy and ended up returning it to the breeder because the poor dog did not get big enough! Anyway - petfinder/rescue you will see oversized dogs and definitely will know about how big they will be! 

Got a little Petfinder crazy there.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

JeanKBBMMMAAN said:


> 3.
> oohhhhhh...
> 
> 
> ...


BE STILL MY HEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wub:


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## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

As requested I am searching for breeder. I am looking for the oversized shepherd. Since I came to this forum when I state I am seeking a breeder I would be looking for other qualities that would make a great shepherd family companion as well. I have done google search and now seek advice from anyone who may have dealt with specific breeders. My previous dog was 27" 115 lbs at his fittest. My dad trained oversized shepherds in Vietnam. He owned several when I was a child so I have a sentimental desire for the oversized shepherd. I guess I will give examples of the traits I found important in my most recent dog:

Bark when stove was left on
Turn on bathroom faucet when he wants a drink rather than use his bowl
Take down an 80 lb Pit when it charged my son. The same pit that also killed my neighbors 80lb rotti
Loved by every neighborhood kid in my little town
Menacing bark when strangers approach the property but visitors loved.

I assume it is possible for a reputable breeder to find 2 good larger dogs and produce quality pups? I stated in my OP not looking for King or Shiloh. As for the poster commenting on my avatar? I sincerely hope you have or have had a companion that was as beautiful and special as him..


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## doggiedad (Dec 2, 2007)

how far are you willing to drive for a pup?
is shipping ok?


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

well here's one, tho it's not 'my' thing ck
royalaire


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## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh and those that recommended a rescue dog. That thought has entered our mind and not completely out of the question..Still weighing our options. And thanks to all those who took the time respond.


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN (May 11, 2005)

JakodaCD OA said:


> well here's one, tho it's not 'my' thing ck
> royalaire


Does Minnieski have a girl from there? 

OP - check the general rescue section - that poster recently posted there about possibly rehoming her male, and you can maybe contact her. ETA - here is a post she started last month about a breeding: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/bloodlines-pedigrees/177742-comments-breeding-wl.html that you can use to PM her.


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## Doc (Jan 13, 2009)

Look at the following web-site
Breeding Oversized, Large German Shepherds. German Shepherd puppies for sale


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

OP....FYI....Doc is also a breeder, and some of his dogs are of a "larger scale"....you might want to contact him also...?!
Larger scale dogs are born from all bloodlines and coat colors.

Good luck with your search.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

rlb1130 said:


> As requested I am searching for breeder. I am looking for the oversized shepherd. Since I came to this forum when I state I am seeking a breeder I would be looking for other qualities that would make a great shepherd family companion as well. I have done google search and now seek advice from anyone who may have dealt with specific breeders. My previous dog was 27" 115 lbs at his fittest. My dad trained oversized shepherds in Vietnam. He owned several when I was a child so I have a sentimental desire for the oversized shepherd. I guess I will give examples of the traits I found important in my most recent dog:
> 
> Bark when stove was left on
> Turn on bathroom faucet when he wants a drink rather than use his bowl
> ...


I would check out Doc's dogs
or
Frank is from Rosehall in Tenn. I've been very happy with him, and would go back for another GSD from them. They have a website and facebook page, they do health clearances. 
Frank is about 29 in and 86 pounds, at 2 years old. Big thing to remember with the bigger dogs is not to let them pack on extra pounds they don't need just because they're taller.


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## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you Frank's mom. I looked at their website and will def give them consideration. Always good to hear first hand accounts others have had with specific breeders.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

rlb1130 said:


> I will give examples of the traits I found important in my most recent dog:
> 
> Bark when stove was left on
> Turn on bathroom faucet when he wants a drink rather than use his bowl
> ...


Seriously? You expect your new oversize dog to do all these things? Are you going to return him if he uses his water bowl instead of turning on the faucet?



> I assume it is possible for a reputable breeder to find 2 good larger dogs and produce quality pups?


Not in my opinion... reputable breeders don't breed outside the standard. You can find oodles of "old fashion large straight back" GSD breeders on the web, and some of them might even have OFA'd stock, but I dare you to find one that titles their dogs in SchH or other sport. They are breeding for a pet market, so are not held to the higher standards of show, working and sport enthusiasts.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

OP, be very careful when going to an oversized breeder. It seems to me that most every oversized breeder is not only breeding for size, but for Golden Retriever temperaments, that is why you seldom will find them using titled breeding stock. If you love the true shepherd temperament, you could be very disappointed. (All you oversized GSD owners don't bash, I am a huge fan of larger shepherds as long as they have the health and temperament to go with it.)

It is not all that uncommon for show lines to be oversized. Don't overlook them. Also, if you are dilligent and do your homework, you can find workingline breeders with larger dogs. Depends on what you want.

Last time I measured my WL pup he stood 26.5" (10 months) and he weighed 89# at 11 months, out of standard sized parents. I am sure he has some growing to do. I did not want a pup on the small side of the standard so I bought a pup that had both parents on the high end of the standard. Take your time and shop around.


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## atravis (Sep 24, 2008)

http://www.valiantdale.com/

Not to most's standards, but at least they work their dogs. 
BIG dogs.


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

Personally, I'd rather get in contact with breeders who are actually breeding german shepherds and tell them what you're looking for as far as size and temperament go. 

Is there really that big of a difference between 100 and 115 pounds?


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

rlb1130, I've had 2 GSDs from Royalair in Grinnell Iowa. Sam, my senior girl, turned 13 Dec 4 2011. I had to let her go Feb 6 2012. She was slowing down throughout her last year but remained healthy until her final months. Djibouti, is her grandson & turned 4 in Dec. He's healthy, active, vigorous, biddable, intelligent, more discerning than suspicious, with a solid, stable temperament, is good with people & other dogs & excellent with children. 

I love Royalair GSDs & will look to her when I get another. This is typical of most of her puppy buyers. Over & over they return for their 2nd, 3rd, 4th GSD. 

I'd also recommend that you look at Rosehall & pm Doc. Both are breeders I wouldn't hesitate to get a pup from. I've known several people that got pups from them & they've all been very happy.

The link posted to Valiantdale...Check it out. I've heard wonderful things about those dogs. The breeder is very well regarded by many.

Shilohs? Kings? I'm no fan of either breed. The temperaments are often dicey. They're usually (for my tastes) excessively soft. Neither seems to be as robust or healthy as the GSDs from Royalair, Doc, Rosehall or other reputable GSD breeders regardless of size.

Rescue might be worth looking into but be certain they have what you're seeking. Prior to getting Sam I looked at rescue & while I found some handsome, larger GSDs, none of them had the other qualities I wanted. I like em big...Specifically tall & lean. I really want health, longevity & a rock solid temperament. Those available when I looked were all unsuited due to temperament &/or predation issues.

There are many here that dislike oversized GSDs. There are others that love 'em. Be careful that the info you receive is from people that actually know the breeder & dogs you're interested in. Misinformation abounds on these dogs.

I am very, very happy that I got the GSD I wanted & not what strangers on a board advocated.


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## Dragonwyke (Jul 21, 2011)

RubyTuesday said:


> rlb1130, I've had 2 GSDs from Royalair in Grinnell Iowa.
> 
> I've known several people that got pups from them & they've all been very happy.
> 
> ...


ruby it is AWESOME to see recommendations from someone w/royalair dogs! i've been reading their site for quite some time now. i've been in touch a couple of times since november as well regarding my Hugo and his care. they are very knowledgeable and helpful. i think when i'm ready that's who i'm going to go to for my first breeders buy. 

dw~


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I was in touch with Robin many years before I actually got a GSD from her. I too was impressed with how helpful she was without ever pressuring me to buy a GSD from her. My original plans were delayed for some years when a homeless Husky wandered into our lives. When I was finally ready to add another dog I looked at Robin & numerous other breeders as well. Over & over, those dogs I liked the best were from Robin's lines.

There are other excellent breeders of over sized GSDs which I believe safeguards their future. Unfortunately, as with any breed or type, there are numerous breeders who lack the knowledge & dedication of breeders such as Royalair, Doc, Rosehall etc. It's a mistake to lump together all over size GSD breeders & assume they're equal in knowledge, experience & the quality of the dogs they produce.

Feel free to pm me with any questions.


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## Konotashi (Jan 11, 2010)

Haven't read all of the replies, but you will likely have a difficult time finding an oversized breeder with ethics. If they're intentionally breeding oversized dogs, then they obviously have no regard to the standard. This doesn't include just looks, but temperament, and most probably skip health checks which are absolutely critical if breeding oversized dogs. 

I would look at Shiloh shepherds or King shepherds.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

I am hoping the OP is not convinced that the listed traits are guaranteed in a larger sized dog. 

Even as far as "taking down an 80 lb Pit" goes, earlier this week me and my dog met up with a friend and her APBT. Her 35 lb gamebred APBT would have eaten my 82 lb GSD alive if she had the chance (she was a very well behaved, well trained, well managed dog... but a gamebred bulldog!). 



atravis said:


> Valiantdale Kennels
> 
> Not to most's standards, but at least they work their dogs.
> BIG dogs.


I would also encourage to OP to look into Valiantdale if large size is an absolute must. I have no personal experience with them but they appear to work with and be more consistent with their lines and the dogs they produce.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

I looked into Kings & Shilohs. At one time I thought they were what I was looking for. Both seem to be rife with health & temperament problems. Many also have, for my tastes, excessively soft temperaments & can be prone to timidity. Anyone interested in a King or Shiloh should look into them closely & be very, very careful when deciding on a breeder.

It's unfair to characterize breeders of over sized GSDs as inherently unethical simply b/c they don't feel bound by the current standard. The best of these breeders are producing healthy, sound, long lived GSDs with excellent temperaments. Exactly like the best breeders of any of the different lines/types.

Von Stephanitz himself put up a GSD that was 29". Until recently there was a common complaint that only over sized GSDs were competitive b/c they were unfairly favored rather than disqualified. (Now that could be argued as unethical). Work exists for a variety of GSDs in various sizes & it always has. Over sized GSDs have worked successfully in the military, LE, as service, assistance & guide dogs as well as loyal, loving companions.

There are good, bad & indifferent breeders among all 'flavors' of GSD. Anyone seeking a GSD should thoroughly evaluate the breeder & the dogs produced. There are health checks I want, but health is more than favorable test results. The extended family history means more to me than simply passing a few tests. How long do the dogs live? How healthy are they? In detail, what are the temperaments like? How well does the breeder know her dogs? How objective is she? 



> I am hoping the OP is not convinced that the listed traits are guaranteed in a larger sized dog.


They're not guaranteed in any GSD regardless of size. Look for a breeder consistently producing dogs with the characteristics which are important to you. Although that provides no guarantee it does stack the deck in your favor.

Those who know they want an over sized GSD s/b encouraged to seek out breeders who produce much more than size. When advising these people it does no good to perpetrate inaccurate & inflammatory stereotypes, ie the automatic assumption these dogs probably have poor temperaments, are unhealthy & structurally compromised. 

There is a well regarded breeder here who has produced some dysplastic dogs. How bogus would it be to drag that info out whenever the breeder was recommended? And yet some members routinely pile on unsubstantiated insinuations & baseless concerns whenever someone expresses an interest in acquiring an over sized GSD. Seriously, how ethical is that?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Not to defend "oversized" breeders (they don't interest me in the slightest either way) but size in general can be a toss-up. Nikon is usually critiqued as having "correct medium size" and he is 25" and 70-75lbs. He has good bone and is masculine, and everyone that has seen him on this forum and then met him in person has commented that he looks much bigger in pictures, so he's obviously not a puny dog. However, he has a half brother that weighs over 100lbs. The big dog does herding (AHBA) and runs in races with his human. Similar/same genetics and 30+lb variation in size. Growing up, my working line dog Pan was consistently 10-15lb less than his littermate brother. I don't really get the obsession over size, and just because some breeders' dogs aren't 115+lb doesn't mean they're really doing much to carefully control the size of their dogs either.


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## rshkr (Feb 9, 2012)

RubyTuesday said:


> some members routinely pile on unsubstantiated insinuations & baseless concerns whenever someone expresses an interest in acquiring an over sized GSD. Seriously, how ethical is that?


It's prevalent in this forum.
that's why i no longer make a thread asking for help, i PM people whose knowledge/opinion i trust based on their posts on threads i have read/researched.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

It would seem to me that good breeders would be striving for the entire package, not eliminating a dog from their breeding program because it may be a bit oversized or undersized, as long as the dog was a good overall representative of the breed.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

RubyTuesday said:


> They're not guaranteed in any GSD regardless of size. Look for a breeder consistently producing dogs with the characteristics which are important to you. Although that provides no guarantee it does stack the deck in your favor.
> 
> Those who know they want an over sized GSD s/b encouraged to seek out breeders who produce much more than size. When advising these people it does no good to perpetrate inaccurate & inflammatory stereotypes, ie the automatic assumption these dogs probably have poor temperaments, are unhealthy & structurally compromised.
> 
> There is a well regarded breeder here who has produced some dysplastic dogs. How bogus would it be to drag that info out whenever the breeder was recommended? And yet some members routinely pile on unsubstantiated insinuations & baseless concerns whenever someone expresses an interest in acquiring an over sized GSD. Seriously, how ethical is that?


Not sure if this is directed towards me or not, but to clarify I do not mean to imply or insinuate anything about the OP or over sized German Shepherds. I was just confused by the fact that the only criterion listed by the OP was large size, and then the more specific qualities she/he listed of the past dog had more to do with circumstance and the individual, nothing to do with size. Before, it was questioned why the OP was looking for an oversized dog, so for all intents and purposes the post listing those qualities of the past dog appeared to be a response to the question posed. 

I did mentioned Valiantdale would be worth taking a look at - they are a breeder I linked for a personal friend to look into when she was seeking to breed her foundation bitch to improve nerve strength and overall stability within the lines. I believe I found out about the breeder through Doc, or another member of this forum. I frequently have expressed my opinion before that it would be an improvement to some lines to bring in dogs of such breedings.

Ironically breeders of "120 lb black sable big boned huge headed" GSDs do not get quite as much flack.


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

Have there been studies done showing that larger GSD have a higher risk of HD or joint problems? (not overweight dogs, dogs with weights that are appropriate for their height)


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## Chance&Reno (Feb 21, 2012)

My senior, adopted boy was oversized. He was 120 and in perfect health until a month after his 11th birthday. He died from hemangiosarcoma. His hips have very little signs of arthritis and the rest of his health was amazing considering his past lives. 
I don't know anything about his breeder or bloodlines. I don't know if he was intentionally bred that large or if he was a large puppy in a standard litter.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> Have there been studies done showing that larger GSD have a higher risk of HD or joint problems?


None that I’m aware of. There appears to be little to no correlation b/w size & healthy joints. Irish Wolfhounds, a giant breed, have a much lower incidence of HD than many much smaller breeds. Pugs, a small breed, have a relatively high incidence. 

Royalair, Djibouti’s breeder, has an excellent history of producing sound structure, including a low incidence of HD. She has a better track record for hips than many of the highly recommended breeders. This isn’t a knock on those breeders. There are considerations beyond passing OFAs & has been noted before, dogs with even moderate HD often live active, happy lives, largely unimpeded by the HD.




> Not sure if this is directed towards me or not…


Not really. It was a reminder that the inferences & cautions given for over sized GSDs applies equally to all sizes/types of GSD. There’s a WL GSD in my neighborhood that’s a ghastly beast, truly a lousy representation of his species, never mind his breed. A lovely WL bitch in one of our classes couldn’t tolerate her owner leaving her even briefly & would immediately commence to pacing, panting, looking around anxiously. He was promised a male & was told he was well matched with the largest male of the litter. He was informed differently the day before his pup was shipped! Personally, that’s not a breeder I’d deal with. Increasingly there are WL breeders cashing in on the popularity of black sables or Czech lines. Anyone new to GSDs should research thoroughly, be clear on what is & isn’t wanted & proceed carefully.



> Not in my opinion... reputable breeders don't breed outside the standard. You can find oodles of "old fashion large straight back" GSD breeders on the web, and some of them might even have OFA'd stock, but I dare you to find one that titles their dogs in SchH or other sport. They are breeding for a pet market, so are not held to the higher standards of show, working and sport enthusiasts.


I will seek GSDs with SchH titles when I’m convinced the titles help to assure I’m getting what I need/want in my GSDs. Until then it’s meaningless to me. IF I was interested in pursuing SchH I’d feel differently about those titles. Good breeders selecting for family companions rigorously select for solid temperaments & discerning judgment. Few if any are active in SchH, but it doesn’t automatically follow that they don’t work & train their dogs. GSDs from these breeders have worked in SAR & as therapy, guide & assistance dogs. Their standards might not be identical to the sports enthusiasts but they as high or higher than those of most show & sport breeders.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Rei said:


> Ironically breeders of "120 lb black sable big boned huge headed" GSDs do not get quite as much flack.


I'm constantly on my soap box about this. There's quite a few of us ranting about what "DDR" dogs are turning into.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

There are many showline breeders who are breeding for that big blocky head too...'its all the rage' according to one. Wonder if the ears will stand ok on those heads?


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

onyx'girl said:


> There are many showline breeders who are breeding for that big blocky head too...'its all the rage' according to one. Wonder if the ears will stand ok on those heads?


If not, maybe I'll get some for my new "Vom FloopyEars" kennel. After all, it's all about breeding what I personally like, right?


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## Whiteshepherds (Aug 21, 2010)

RubyTuesday said:


> None that I’m aware of. There appears to be little to no correlation b/w size & healthy joints. Irish Wolfhounds, a giant breed, have a much lower incidence of HD than many much smaller breeds. Pugs, a small breed, have a relatively high incidence.


So the arguement that breeding larger GSD's causes a higher incidence of hip problems isn't true as far as you know. I think I'd rather hear someone say "don't breed large dogs because it's against the standard" rather than parrot what they've heard from others if there's no data to back it up.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> I think I'd rather hear someone say "don't breed large dogs because it's against the standard" rather than parrot what they've heard from others if there's no data to back it up.


I agree. But for those that prefer the larger GSDs the truth simply isn't convincing enough.


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## Rei (Oct 10, 2008)

Emoore said:


> I'm constantly on my soap box about this. There's quite a few of us ranting about what "DDR" dogs are turning into.


Oh, certainly and you, Carmen, Oksana, and Cliff all immediately come to mind as far as people who regularly warn against choosing the DDR type dogs for the color, bone, and head type alone. Just a general observation regarding stigma seemingly attached to certain words. "Oversized" is bound to bring more controversy and disagreement than "black sable".

*Onyx'girl *- I was looking through a few show line dogs on several websites and goodness, I swore some of those heads more resembled an Akita's, Great Dane's, or a Mastiff's. Same could be said for many working line breeders, of course. Yikes!! I think my own dog does not have as strong of a head as is ideal, but I don't like anything to be exaggerated or gravitating towards the extremes, in physical appearance or in temperament!


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

Big male heads are fine, but don't breed for it!!


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

> I swore some of those heads more resembled an Akita's, Great Dane's, or a Mastiff's.


I've seen some WL heads recently that look 'bearish' or Akita like. I don't favor the look, but it doesn't really bother me if what's within the head is good stuff. It's still structurally sound & functional.


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## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks Ruby.. I have actually contacted both Doc and Royalaire (several PM'd these two). Now it's just a matter of trying to get to a litter available late spring early summer as my son is home and my wife works shorter hours. Thank you for taking the time to post.


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## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

A follow up on why I want a larger size. I live in a rural area. Stray dogs a plenty (several pit/rotti breeders), coyotes and few other nasties. As far as my dog taking down an 80 lb pit.. I should have noted that there was no actual fight. One hit (literally a tackle) and the pit high tailed. Much better outcome then an all out battle (no interest in which dog was tougher). And temperment?? I think the "examples" I posted can give a general guide (smart,protective and high level of intelligence) and that would be something I would discuss in detail with a breeder during selection process. I would think that it would be assumed that someone who would take the time and come to a forum, sign up and request recommendations is looking for more than just a big dog. Again thanks to those who provided recommendations and also to those who provided insightful information selecting a new companion.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

An 80lb Pit Bull vs a 115lb German Shepherd . . . 

Another 15 years from now when the gangbangers and meth-heads have juiced the Pit Bulls up to over 100lbs we'll all be looking for GSDs the size of Grizzlies. Meanwhile the Turks have been breeding perfectly good livestock guardians for centuries. You know, dogs that are actually bred to be 120lb and fight off wolves and coyotes and bears and Pit Bulls oh my.


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## onyx'girl (May 18, 2007)

rlb, I hope you stick around and share stories of your new pup. Many times people come on this board, ask for recommendations and leave. 
The reason you get so many opinions/advice is because everyone here is very passionate about this special breed. And the future of it. 
So, please stick around and share your experiences! I hope to see pics of your pup soon.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Emoore, I love those dogs. Love 'em, but they're poorly suited to my urban environment.

Pits are already 'juiced'. Admittedly, I prefer the larger (taller, rather leggy), toned & athletic Pits. As with so many breeds, working Pits varied in size a lot. It was the fighters who had the penchant for the smaller Pits b/c of weight rules when fighting. The 'juiced' pits are (IMO) something else. Low, squatty & massive with ridiculously broad chests & HUGE heads displaying meaty, gaping maws. Legs are often splayed because of the exaggerated width of the body. Front legs often look bowed. The sleek athleticism & raw power is gone replaced by this John Belushi canine caricature. 

Pits aren't my breed, but if they were, the latest *fad* is surely not my cuppa. Sadly, these deformed behemoths are often exceptionally sweet, personable dogs, much like the modern English Bulldog. When a dog can no longer breed, breathe or run something has gone obscenely awry. Why that has any appeal I'll never understand.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

RubyTuesday said:


> Emoore, I love those dogs. Love 'em, but they're poorly suited to my urban environment..


Yeah I was referring to OP and their dog-and-coyote problem they want an oversized dog to deal with. My in-laws have an Anatolian. Fabulous dog, 120lb lean, and makes mincemeat out of coyotes. Just has those darn floppy ears...


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

LOL on the floppy ears. It makes them look sooo sweet. Ditto Kuvaszok, Akbash & Komondorok. As much as I love the large flock guards, a GSD, even an exceptionally tough minded GSD, is much more easily managed.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

Yep... I have an Akbash dog and while he's certainly an imposing animal, I would not want to keep him as a housedog!


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## rlb1130 (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks all. I have selected a breeder (made deposit) and now the wait begins. I even provided the screen names of those who made the referral. Thanks again. Received several different referrals and made my selection very tough in a good way. I was also pleasantly surprised when one breeder made a recommendation based on my preferences rather then simply pushing their dogs. One poster requested I post feedback and I will continue to provide updates and am sure I will also be back for help and suggestions raising our new companion.


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## Franksmom (Oct 13, 2010)

Congrats! Don't forget the pic's when you post updates!


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