# a mast cell tumor and a wasp sting....



## LisaT

Well, the day has come. Found out today that Indy (our mixed breed) has a mast cell tumor. It will be removed Monday the 10th, and then sent out for biopsy, staging, etc.

I'm kicking myself that we didn't test it earlier. About 5 years ago she had a wasp sting in that area. A couple of years ago a lump formed. Over the last year, the area has been changing. But Indy has a number of other issues, and we all attributed it to just being "indy". While we didn't test it, the vet had felt it when it first showed up. Today the vet aspirated it with a needle to see what was inside -- filled with mast cells and odd fluid.

I thought it was wierd that this showed up at that exact site so long after the wasp sting. That sting really made her ill for along time -- it wasn't necessarily an allergic response; in fact, there was almost no swelling. I guess histamine is the connection between the sting and possible tumor formation -- our vet said she has heard of this connection.

I know that most of these, if caught early enough, are cured by surgery. But I don't know if we caught it early enough. And I don't know if she could tolerate many conservative or alternative treatments other than surgery because she is our issue dog.

So, be careful of any bumps that appear or don't go away after a bee or wasp sting, and please send Miss Indy some healing thoughts ...

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f179/other95/35b2af6b.jpg


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Oh noooooooooooooooo....

What did the lump look like?

I know there was a dog on IMOM who is actually one of the worst case ever pictures of mast cells if you look it up. He was a Boston, I think. He lived for a long time, but I do not know the details of his case at that point as he was pre-Anna being on there. He was on there for quite some time and if I remember, was actually getting help for something else entirely after his cancer was treated. I can check it out if you'd like me to. 

And is she as sweet as she looks? What a face! 

Forgot to say-please post as soon as you can, when you know anything more.


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## BowWowMeow

Lisa,

I've never heard of anything like this but it does make sense. I heard a simliar thing from a vet when Basu had serious allergies. Don't give yourself a hard time though because you didn't know! It is very difficult to figure out when to aspirate. My Chama is full of fatty tumours and I've had one aspirated but not others. Anyway, I'll be wishing the best for Indy. Are you giving her that Wobenzym?


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## LisaT

Jean, the lump is below the skin. You can't see it unless you know it's there. It started out feeling just like a lump, but now you can feel it's lumpy, so there must be multiple little lumps in there.

She is the sweetest girl and has been through so much. I hate that point when you drop them off at the vet and you go one way and they go another.

I will definitely post updates.

Ruth, I didn't even think about the Wobenzym, great idea, I have some here. I was also reading that Tagamet might be helpful in slowing any progression, but have some reading to do on that.

You're right, it really is tough knowing which lumps and bumps to aspirate, and when. The vet was telling me how sometimes she'll get a lipoma that's just a lipoma, only later it has morphed into something more serious.

Thank you both for the well-wishes!


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## M&J

If it helps, my dog had mast cell cancer when he was 7. He had it surgically removed, clean margins, and it never returned the rest of his life.
He had several other lumps/bumps biopsied throughout his life after that, all benign.
Prayers you caught it in an early stage!


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## kallie

Oh no Lisa! So sorry to hear this and hoping all will be fine with Indy. I know exactly how you feel right now though. I continually questioned, if I would have only just noticed Kallie's tumor sooner. You know we do the best for our dogs, so don't feel bad..You are a great mom You're in my thoughts and please keep us posted.

I do want to add though, that Kallie did have a tumor about 5 years ago also. Not sure if you remember this or not. It was surgically removed and all was fine for the next 5 years..So hoping all will be the same for Indy! 

Give Indy a sloppy wet kiss from me

Jen


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## arycrest

Lisa & Indy























I don't have any experience with mast cell tumors, just wanted to let you know that you an Indy will be in my prayers!


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## Barb E

> Originally Posted By: LisaTRuth, I didn't even think about the Wobenzym, great idea, I have some here. I was also reading that Tagamet might be helpful in slowing any progression, but have some reading to do on that.


I don't know about the use of Tagamet in dogs but I know not long after I sold a mare with a Melanoma under her tail I started hearing of treating Melanoma in horses with Tagamet.

I'll keep you and your girl in my thoughts!!!


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## natalie559

Sending hugs







and good thoughts to you and Indy

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## JakodaCD OA

will be keeping Indy in my prayers!! You keep us updated! 

diane


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## SuzyE

Oh gosh I am totally freaked out because Paige got a wasp sting two days ago. She is acting fine but there is a lump there,small. Maybe I should take her in, she will freak though.


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## JenM66

Lisa, best wishes for success on the 10th. What a scary thing. Now I know why one month later when Gracie went in for a regular check up, the vet checked her sting area. We were wondering because we knew it had cleared....thanks for imparting more good information on all of us, as usual! Hugs to you and Indy.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: SuzyEOh gosh I am totally freaked out because Paige got a wasp sting two days ago. She is acting fine but there is a lump there,small. Maybe I should take her in, she will freak though.


SuzyE, I don't know the statistics, but my guess is that what happened to Indy is pretty rare. And Indy has had wierd things happen to her for the last 10 years -- she really isn't a normal dog at all.

I don't remember much of lump after the sting. It was years 2-3 years before there was a persistent lump tht we felt was odd. So if the lump gets smaller, then you know the immune system is handling it. If it gets larger, or varies size, then I would have it checked. If you mess with the lump, then it can release things like histamine into the body, so be careful not to obsess about it and irritate it.

Be cautious, write down the date of the sting and the position somewhere in her files, and then don't worry about it, or support her with antioxidants, vitamin C, etc.


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## LisaT

> Originally Posted By: M&JIf it helps, my dog had mast cell cancer when he was 7. He had it surgically removed, clean margins, and it never returned the rest of his life.
> He had several other lumps/bumps biopsied throughout his life after that, all benign.
> Prayers you caught it in an early stage!


Thank you M&J, our vet mentioned that this was possibility and it's exactly what we are hoping for. It's good to know someone where this actually happened. I'll tell Indy that this is our plan


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## LisaT

Jen, I had forgotten about the tumor Kallie had -- that's more encouraging news. I told the vet today that Monday I'll know more how hard to kick myself for not having it aspirated sooner. Thanks for the good words -- all we can do is our best.

And I will be sure to give Indy some extra smooches for you!

Gayle, Barb, natalie, diane, and Jen, thanks so much for the support. How can anything go wrong when Indy has so much help!

I've sorta put my reaction on hold until we really know what we are dealing with. Ruth did actually jumpstart me a bit. I put Indy on Wobenzym, vit C, bioflavanoids, with extra ground flax.

I have benadryl and tagamet, but haven't quite figured where they fit yet. I'm pretty sure that I'll be starting her on the tagamet tonight.

http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo....er%20tagamet%20
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cimetidine.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_April/ai_84211163/print

Before surgery, they give her a shot of benadryl and pred (I can't beleive that Indy has to have pred) in case the tumor releases some it's histamine/ heparin, etc, into the bloodstream. From what I read about the tagamet, that should also be given as a follow up to the surgery.

Well, one more thing that Indy has made me learn about!


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## kallie

> Quote:Well, one more thing that Indy has made me learn about!


Max has done a excellent job in educating me also. 

I'm sure you have looked up a number of things on tumors/cancer already, when I was searching on things for Kallie, I found this about St. Johns Wort. I found it interesting, not sure if you have read or not.. St Johns Wort 

Jen


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## LisaT

Jen, that's a great article regarding St. Johns Wort -- I had no idea.

Indy had her surgery Monday. She didn't have a tumor. She had 5. (Leave it to her to be different.) We got the biopsy report back on Wednesday and all the tumors were removed, with clean margins. It was graded as stage II (low) -- slower growing than some.

Considering that this has been there for years, this was the best possible outcome. I am now in the process of putting together a cancer regimine for her. Apparently these mast cell tumors are pretty unpredicatable about which ones come back,, etc.

So I'm extremely relieved. Now once I catch up with everything I've neglected this week, I can get back to the boards!


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## M&J

Good news! What a load off your mind.


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## LisaT

Thanks Mary. Heh, heh, I do find that I"m much more relaxed this weeked!


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## LisaT

Post surgery pics:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f179/other95/medical/IMG_2267edit.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f179/other95/medical/IMG_2278edit.jpg


Post licking:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f179/other95/medical/IMG_2285edit.jpg


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## kallie

OUCH that is a good size incision! I'm so glad the news is good, and Indy looks great! Dogs are so amazing on how well they tolerate things like this..

Glad to hear this

Jen


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## LisaT

She's been a trooper. She's my sensitive girl, and very stoic -- I've been proud of how she's handled everything.

When I picked her up after the surgery, I tried to go out the door at the vet office that is the longer way to the car, because I was trying to avoid some dogs that were in the way. She would have none of it and plowed right through the other dogs to take the shortest way. LOL, Indy stands for Independence since I got her on 7/3/97....I guess she's still got that independent streak in her!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Wow, that is crazy-5 tumors. 

So now what do you do? You are going to supplement-do they guess that they may not form again (I HOPE)? Or they just can't tell because they are mast cell tumors? 

I am very glad all turned out so well!


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## LisaT

Thanks Jean.

Being cleanly excised, there's a good chance that they won't form again. BUT, these things release stuff when messed with, so they always assume that surgery may never fully get rid of them - -many do reform, or grow somewhere else. Yeah, the 5 tumor thing is wierd. I'm thinking that if we waited too much longer, the outcome would not have been so good.

To me, this looks like another wierd symptom of her central immune systemdysfunction. However, it will help me figure out what to direct the suppelments at....it's possible that if I target this mast cell stuff, all of her might get better, and that would be cool.


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## kallie

> Quote:BUT, these things release stuff when messed with, so they always assume that surgery may never fully get rid of them - -many do reform, or grow somewhere else


Lisa they don't have to be messed with to break off. Having had cancer myself, I know that it only takes a small cell to break off and travel through the body. When I had cancer, mine broke off prior to being surgically removed, and then was caught in my lymph nodes. Cancer cells are known to move around much more easier than normal cells do. These cells can spread through local spread, lymphatic system, and blood circulation. New tumors can then form in different organs, which is then considered secondary cancer.

I hope Indy is as lucky as I have been and as lucky as Kallie was. Even though Kallie's cancer returned, she had a good 5 years of being healthy and happy 

Jen


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## LisaT

I didn't know that you had been through this too, how long has it been?

I do hope that Indy is as long as you two. Someone told me that Indy is much like a cat -- only we can't keep track of how many lives she has been through!


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## kallie

8 years in remission I go in a few months for a check, crossing my fingers all is still good!

I think it is strange about our two Max's and their ongoing issues. Indy and Kallie also have a lot in common, besides the fact they are both Independent day doggies. Kallie was born on the 4th of July

Jen

p.s. I brought Max to the vet for his eyes..I posted on the other thread..Let me know what you think


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## LisaT

Good luck with that check up -- hopefully at some point you will be able say it's been at least a couple of decades.

That's funny about Indy and Kallie -- there must be something to that independent thing . And what's with dogs with the name Max and all their issues??? Geez!


(replied to you in the cataracts thread too)


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## LisaT

Page of links for MCT:

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/mastcell.htm


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## LisaT

Guidance for diet to control histamine in mast cell cancer:

http://www.dogcancerblog.com/diet-for-dogs-with-mast-cell-tumors/

http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.com/pages/lowhistamine.htm


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## LisaT

tagamet info: http://www.lef.org/LEFCMS/aspx/PrintVersionMagic.aspx?CmsID=114809


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