# Stacking Do's & Don'ts



## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

From this thread... http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/critique-my-dog/157250-critique-my-critique.html



robinhuerta said:


> I really want to assist in the critiques...but I don't want to be *unfair* in them either....
> Many of the pictures do not *accentuate* the good attributes of the dogs posted.
> They do the opposite...the are *enhancing* the short comings, and minor or major faults of these wonderful dogs.
> I would prefer to comment on the dogs, when they can be *shown* in a positive view.
> ...


 
Here is my most recent stack attempt









I know he is looking up instead of forward alert but what else is wrong? I will not be offended by any comments.


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## PaddyD (Jul 22, 2010)

I give you credit for asking. I wouldn't do it because the flaws I don't see don't yet exist to me.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Brandi....I must commend you on a very good attempt and without the assistance of a "handler". KUDOS!
Since your dog has a very straight upper-arm....do not present him with his head held high (it accentuates this fault). Also try to get the front feet a little farther under him (he is standing elbows & feet out).
There is not much more you can do in the "rear" area.....he has very little rear angulation and tall hocks.
*NOTE*.....when we teach our junior handlers to "stack" a dog...Carlos always tells them this piece of information.
Look at the dog along it's side....place the front legs *by gently pulling back at their arm/elbows, so that the legs are completely underneath the dog evenly. Then place the "inner leg" slightly forward underneath the dog. Lastly, pull the outer leg gently by the hocks, and gently slide straight backwards in a straight line from the placement of the front legs.
Imagine a straight line along the side of the dog.....line up front and back leg evenly.
*I'm trying to explain things easily and in laymen terms.....let me know if you or anyone else cannot understand....I will try harder.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> From this thread... http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/critique-my-dog/157250-critique-my-critique.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well the front legs are not even. Ultimately especially with a photographic view, it is ultimate to have the front legs so lined up that you cannot even tell there is another leg behind it. 

The rear leg closest to the camera is over stacked. You want the hock to be Perpendicular to the ground as much as possible. 

Sometimes it helps to put a leash and collar on the dog and put pressure on the leash backwards and throw a ball or toy in front of the dog (or have someone standing in front of dog grabbing attention to get ears forwards). This causes the dog to "lean" forwards causing the dog to lean more on its front legs more and shift weight which usually turns out to be the best stacks.

To give you an idea here is a standing stack and here is a leaning stack of Havoc



Leaning:









Not Leaning:










see the subtle differences in that topline? Leaning really raises the Withers and lowers the rear and makes the front assembly look much better put together.

also notice the slight camera angle difference. It is important to focus the camera directly parallell with the dog and aiming towards the center of the chest. Which you did a good job of, but I just wanted to point it out anyways since that photo is a good example. 

Another thing to always keep in mind (not directed at the OP) is the sun. Have the sun shadowing behind the dog and not beaming down on a direct area. This can end up ruining a stack photo by washing out a dog, or glaring on a dogs coat which is never fun. 

The last and most important thing is. Be ready to take a ton of photos. It usually takes me about 100-200 photos to get ONE decent stack shot LOL


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> Brandi....I must commend you on a very good attempt and without the assistance of a "handler". KUDOS!
> Since your dog has a very straight upper-arm....do not present him with his head held high (it accentuates this fault). Also try to get the front feet a little farther under him (he is standing elbows & feet out).
> There is not much more you can do in the "rear" area.....he has very little rear angulation and tall hocks.
> *NOTE*.....when we teach our junior handlers to "stack" a dog...Carlos always tells them this piece of information.
> ...


Thank you Robin. With his long legs and little angulation I have struggled finding how to stack him. No matter what it just looks wrong to me. I know he has really bad conformation but I enjoy learning about GSD conformation and want to learn how to stack correctly for my future GSD.

What does standing elbows and feet out mean?


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

sagelfn said:


> Thank you Robin. With his long legs and little angulation I have struggled finding how to stack him. No matter what it just looks wrong to me. I know he has really bad conformation but I enjoy learning about GSD conformation and want to learn how to stack correctly for my future GSD.
> 
> What does standing elbows and feet out mean?


It means he is bridging slightly, The front legs need to be directly under him, your dogs are slightly out in front of him.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

The elbow should lay close to the dog's brisket area....in your picture...you can actually "see" the elbow joint, and the leg is slightly turned outward.
As for the rear hock area...your dog has very little rear angulation, so the long hocks will not look very perpendicular to the ground anyway.....but you can help the rear by placing that outer leg "straighter" in line with the front...instead of slightly placed outward away from the rear body.
*Maris.....nice dog.....but he can have his rear hock area look better too.
In the first picture, his hock turns inward (towards the body)...that gives an appearance of being "close in the rear or hocky"....and not always is that true.


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> The elbow should lay close to the dog's brisket area....in your picture...you can actually "see" the elbow joint, and the leg is slightly turned outward.
> As for the rear hock area...your dog has very little rear angulation, so the long hocks will not look very perpendicular to the ground anyway.....but you can help the rear by placing that outer leg "straighter" in line with the front...instead of slightly placed outward away from the rear body.
> *Maris.....nice dog.....but he can have his rear hock area look better too.
> In the first picture, his hock turns inward (towards the body)...that gives an appearance of being "close in the rear or hocky"....and not always is that true.


Thank you 

and yes I know unfortunately that stack the rear does look a little hocky and I pulled that rear leg a little too far back. Thats the best one that turned out that day tho lol


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Good job! ....better than I could do if I had to do it all alone! LOL!
I'm better at "looking" and telling the handler what needs to be where.....than trying to do it myself!


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

robinhuerta said:


> Good job! ....better than I could do if I had to do it all alone! LOL!
> I'm better at "looking" and telling the handler what needs to be where.....than trying to do it myself!


lol it really sucks when you don't have someone at the view of the camera telling you what to fix and what not to fix, Its supppper helpful!


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

when it comes to "stacking" do's and don'ts, I say Don't. Considering the GSD is supposed to be judged in it's natural form, I think the only thing that should be acceptable is to walk your dog into a stand and judge.

No putting your feet behind theirs and tucking them up and pulling them back and all the other things that are done in the name of showing the best qualities.

It should be as it was meant to be, natural and posed positions weren't supposed to be the norm in judging.


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## robinhuerta (Apr 21, 2007)

Experienced handlers DO walk the dog into the natural stand...then they "statue" the front & rear leg in the position required for the Conformation ring.
Some handlers "over" present an animal...some do nothing beneficial at all.


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> Considering the GSD is supposed to be judged in it's natural form, I think the only thing that should be acceptable is to walk your dog into a stand and judge.


I think if the dog is well trained enough, you won't be able to tell the difference if a dog is hand stacked or free stacked


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## sagelfn (Aug 13, 2009)

robinhuerta said:


> The elbow should lay close to the dog's brisket area....in your picture...you can actually "see" the elbow joint, and the leg is slightly turned outward.
> As for the rear hock area...your dog has very little rear angulation, so the long hocks will not look very perpendicular to the ground anyway.....but you can help the rear by placing that outer leg "straighter" in line with the front...instead of slightly placed outward away from the rear body.
> *Maris.....nice dog.....but he can have his rear hock area look better too.
> In the first picture, his hock turns inward (towards the body)...that gives an appearance of being "close in the rear or hocky"....and not always is that true.


Thank you both!


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

You act as though I've never been to a show, or been involved. I see what goes on


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## 4TheDawgies (Apr 2, 2011)

Well gosh I guess its a good thing the judges actually know what they are looking at no matter if the dog is stacked or not........


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## Xeph (Jun 19, 2005)

> You act as though I've never been to a show, or been involved. I see what goes on


I don't think that was implied (at least not intentionally)? And yes, I did mean to state it as a question.


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## horsegirl (Aug 11, 2010)

Havoc is super handsome!! wow , can I ask where you got him?


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## horsegirl (Aug 11, 2010)

4TheDawgies said:


> Well the front legs are not even. Ultimately especially with a photographic view, it is ultimate to have the front legs so lined up that you cannot even tell there is another leg behind it.
> 
> The rear leg closest to the camera is over stacked. You want the hock to be Perpendicular to the ground as much as possible.
> 
> ...


do you have any clones of havoc? oh my , he is simply gorgeous , can I ask where you got him?


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