# Class tonight



## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I have Heidi and Joy taking over for Bear and Dolly as they are in heat. But next week Bear and Dolly will be back. 

For many weeks now, the young Rotty has had a thing for the young dobe, and the young shepherd, and the young yellow lab. He has gone after these dogs, barking and lunging and nearly pulling his owner off of her feet. He reacts whether the dog is in the ring or if they are side by side or whatever. 

Today, the young Doberman took off into the corgi and got snapped at for his intrusion. And then we were out of the ring, I am sitting in a lawn chair, the Rotty owner is talking to someone, and her dog is fixating on Heidi! This is a BIG Rottweiler, even if he is only 18 months old or so. He is huge. And with the woman not paying attention, he could have easily pulled her off balance and into my dog. Heidi is being shown tomorrow, and the last thing I need is a dog fight tonight. I said "Watch your dog!" She does not hear me, she is oblivious. I say it again, louder. Still no response, the dog is zeroed in on mine, staring at her. I say it again as I am getting up, and pulling Heidi out of the reach. 

There was no lunge or fight, but only because I got her out of the line of fire. That was the end of the class. The beginning was almost as fun. The Dobe was going through the rally course and the Rotty was sitting front row on the side and jumped, lunged at the ring totally acting like he was going to EAT the doberman. Ick! So the instructor has our husband do sits and downs with us on the side. She says to put the Rotty and the Dobe on opposite ends, and the Shepherd, which left guess who next to the Rotty. Yupp, me. So it is going through my mind that I might be having a dog fight the night before going for a leg, and we leave for our stays, go as far as you are comfortable. I had taken her leash off and put it behind her. The Rotty owner dropped hers!!! OMG! Her dog just tried to take out the Doberman, and the only reason it hasn't decapitated a dog yet is because she is on the other end of the leash, and she is dropping the leash!?! 

Thankfully, the trainer's husband told her to go back to her dog and pick up her leash. And to leave her dog again (with the leash). I asked if he wanted me to leash mine, and he said no. 

So for now the Rotty owner thinks my dog is a good one for hers to be around. Heidi is kool, she is pretty solid in all situations, but if a dog gets right up into her face, she will snap at them. That is why I am making sure that does not happen. And I do not think that the dogs are particularly happy with the hot humid weather either. 

Anyhow, Heidi is going to be five on the 19th, next week it will be Bear, and she will not be two until March. I really do not want any altercations with either of my dogs, but I really, really do not want problems with the young one.


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## bianca (Mar 28, 2010)

That sounds so stressful 

I am like the Rotti owner with Molly being reactive but I ALWAYS keep her at a distance and never ignore her. I can't begin to imagine how awful I would feel if she hurt another dog because of my incompetence.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Heidi hurt herself getting into the suv. I herd her squeak. I wasn't sure, and let her go in Excellent. The course was a bar jump first thing, she tried it, hit the jump, squealed in pain, I went through some walking signs, and then a sit, down, sit, she squeaked again, and I stopped her from going on. I couldn't jump her again. I did the honor, so that there were no problems -- and that wouldn't hurt her.

I lifted her into my vehicle. She will be rested for months. She walks ok, and runs ok, but cannot jump. She may be retired now. I am bummed about it. I hate when they are hurting. I have her crated in the house for now.


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## Tbarrios333 (May 31, 2009)

Aw poor Heidi! I hope the crate rest will help her out.


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## e.rigby (May 28, 2011)

Oh wow, that class sounds so very stressful  I guess I'm not use to having a class full of reactive dogs, I only allow one reactive dog into a class under special supervision -- and some instructors I know don't allow any reactive dogs into main stream courses (such as rally or agility).


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## EchoGSD (Mar 12, 2010)

I have been the owner of the reactive dog, and it is not fun or easy for us to be in a class. I wouldn't have dreamed of dropping my leash, or my attention to my dog, when other dogs could possibly be at risk. That being said, when I attend classes now with my other three dogs (none of whom are reactive), I will not allow my dogs to be put in the line of fire. They depend on me to keep them safe. When I tell the "stay" and leave them, they need to know without a doubt that they are safe doing what I tell them to do. I empathize with the handler of the reactive dog, especially have been that handler for years, but....I will not put my dogs at risk.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Ok, a new session of classes started today, and Bear and Dolly are out of hear, so I entered Dolly in the Basic Class, and Bear in the on-going advanced class. (They were off three weeks due to coming into season.)

The basic class had a American Bulldog, A staffie, A black lab, a small chocolate lab puppy, and a large black bully breed of some type. I was a little concerned with the American Bull dog because it seemed to be a little too interested in my girl and a little reactive. The others seemed to be not too bad. Half way through the class the lady with the Rotty came and its owner was staying outside the show fencing, and everyone is fixated on everyone else. Dolly was completely distracted. But since she did not do anything stupid, I started to breathe easier as I headed for the gate. 

Before I got there, behind me, the Rotty went for the American Bulldog. I heard the owner say, "I just could not hold him." I switched dogs and came back. I guess no one was hurt, and the Rotty was a part of the advanced class now. So Brewster, the Rotty; my Bear; Max, a black lab from the previous basic class moved up; as did the Newfoundland; and a crazy yellow lab named Iggy. And the more stable group: Jasper the Corgi Therapy dog; The young Golden and young Doberman owned by the obedience sisters; Titan the Jack Russel; and Tobi the Yellow lab. The second Doberman old hand, came and decided too many dogs already. 

Brewster laid into the Newfoundland. Max is ready to go for the Rotty, and the young doberman is ready to take him on too. Iggy and the Rotty have trouble too. Trying to keep everyone separated, and alive was a real trip. Somehow, my girl was far from the Rotty today. 

I need the classes for my girls, but I do not need either of my girls getting into a scrap. I will be rude if I must, but I do not want to give up the classes. The bad thing is that when the Rotty goes for one of the other dogs, I get scared, or more it makes me uneasy/nervous, and I do not know what that is doing to my dog. The Rottie is about 18 months old, skinny, and taller than any Rottweiler I have ever seen. He is a formidable dog. He is still a puppy, but a huge adolescent who can do damage.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

I need to get Shasta into another class but I don't want to be the handler with the reactive dog. She's only reactive on leash so, you know, like when you're in class.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

How far are you from NE Ohio, you would fit right in with this group. I know that these owners and these dogs need the class too, or I would be grousing about how dogs like that should not be in classes. And, well, you never know when MY dog will be the one that everyone doesn't want to get stuck next to. 

One of the older sisters said something today about another member whose dog was kind of acting up, and the comment was something about how he isn't perfect after all. I had to laugh because the owner is sometimes hard to take, someone will discuss an issue and she will proudly say her dog doesn't have any problem with that, and on and on, to the point where you want to slap her upside the head and say, YES, YOU HAVE HAD THAT DOG IN CLASSES NONSTOP FOR MORE THAN THREE YEARS, he ought to be able to stand on his head and spit nickels. But then I remember when he was a young adolescent dog, and he was one that I was a little leery of. 

I think I finally graduated into being a snobbish dog-show person. I sure hope this Rotty grows up soon and acts so good that she can proudly say her dog doesn't have a problem with that.


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## paulag1955 (Jun 29, 2010)

Haha, I'm in Washington State, so pretty far! At least Shasta is friendly reactive. She acts like a maniac...barking, lunging, hackles...until she gets right up to the other dog. Then she's all friendly, wagging her tail, licking at them. But needless to say, no one wants her anywhere near their dogs and you can't blame them. She acts like she's going to take their heads off. She's great at the dog park, though.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is only Tuesday. Class is on Thursday. I don't want to go, I am starting to dread it. 

Maybe I need a break. But, we can only have classes at the instructor's home weather permitting, and the weather doesn't permit very long in NE Ohio. Otherwise, I have to drive twice as far and pay more, deal with serious traffic, and shut up the shop even earlier. 

Several of the dogs are reactive, but it is mostly the one person who gets distracted and does not know when the dog is fixating on someone, and then the dog is big enough to pull her right into the other dog. And yes, she is using a prong, and it is just not effective in stopping him.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

That class sounds really stressful. I'm surprised that the instructor doesn't come down on the owner like a ton of bricks. I'm terrified of my instructor and I can't imagine what she would say if some one dropped a leash or couldn't hold their dog. 
(My instructor is actually a lovely woman with a great sense of humor--but I am a little scared of her wrath.)
If your dreading class maybe you should skip this one and wait for the next. No point in exposing your dogs or yourself to an unpleasant situation.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Normally class is on Thursday, but this week, it was rescheduled for Monday night. 

Dolly in basic, and then Bear in the advanced.

I came early, dragged my chair as Dolly dragged me. From back at the gate, I see the American Bully being aggressive toward the trainer. Prong collar and strong correction -- well, a strong voice, I have no idea what is happening with the leash. Several times. The strong voice was not strong, it was yelling and angry. That is not strong. It was making me uncomfortable. This is the owner of the dog, not the trainer. Several times the trainers tried to do a meet and greet with the man and the dog aggressed. I guess the stuff was happening last week. 

Dolly was focused on everything but me again this week. I am getting a little frustrated, but while waiting on the class, I started doing some other stuff with her, and she was responding well to that. I think a change in tactics is indicated. 

So I replaced her with Bear when the class ended. Bear was jumping on me, acting like an idiot, and so excited should could barely contain herself. After an hour of being eaten by mosquitos, and trying to keep an eye on all the other dogs, and two on dolly, I am running out of patience with Bear. 

Last week when I was returning from a stay, I stepped on her tail and was trying to return back around after resetting her, when the Rotty dragged its owner and jumped her. He was off her in a flash and no damage, but it ticked me off. So I was not too excited to see him yesterday. 

Still, he was doing remarkably well. The young doberman, and the young golden, and the young yellow lab, and the young shepherd -- they were all missing last night. However, when I finished in the ring, the Rotty was fixated on her, and when I walked by to get to my seat, he attacked her but did not connect. Bear has a good amount of energy, but is good around people and dogs. I just do not want to let one dog change that for her.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, it is over. 

After last week where the American Bulldog DID connect with the trainer, I did not think that this week would be too exciting in comparison. 

Dolly's class went pretty good, particularly because there was no American Bulldog there, and half of the rest of the class was not there either. Dolly was not spectacular, but she wasn't horrid either. The only thing that was a little trying was the picture at the end, where Dolly was sure she should eat the lab pup and the dog on the other side was thinking something along the same lines.

The Rotty came up mid class to calm down before the second class started. So I took Dolly to the car and walked back to settle my bill, and the Rotty charged me! I did not panic, and both the trainer and his owner was letting him no he could not do that. I do not know if he wanted to bite me or not, but this dog is easily 120 pounds, and it is scary to have a dog that size charge you. And his owner, prong collar and all, does not have good control over him. 

It was cold and Bear was pretty nutso when we walked back to start training, the Rotty charged at her as well, but I had her out of harms way. Once the class was about 3/4 done, the Rotty finally settled down a bit. 

The golden, and the Doberman, owned by the obedience-sisters, were the best in the class, closely followed by the corgi, and then the Jack Russel both of whom have been coming for years, then Bear (shakes head with disgust), and next was the Rotty. And, frankly, if you remove the inappropriate aggression, it would be a tossup between Bear and the Rotty, for last place honors. Bear doesn't care, she thinks a moment longer in a down or a stay than she wants is a moment wasted. 

So we may be on vacation for the winter now.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

Are you glad it's over? Havs started a new class anh he and the male pit are very tense around each other--it makes me nrevous.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

Boy, that Rottie sounds like too much fun. ~NOT!~
Is there a reason other than working on leash aggression why a dog like that is allowed to stay in a group setting?
Concerning that it charged you as well.

For the first time today, that's not a facetious question. 
My boss lets one of our employees to bring her rescue/rehab girl to group classes not so much for any extensive training but because she's reactive in a fearful way. 
This dog doesn't have forward aggression, but aggressive posturing while going backwards...however, she's never allowed too close while doing down stays, etc.
Oh, and she is getting much better, hasn't graduated but behavior around other dogs on leash is better.
Anyhoo, just wondered if the trainer has that dog in a controlled environment to train the owner not so much the dog.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

It is odd, the owner works as a pet-sitter. The Rotty and the American Bulldog are both youngsters, about 18 months old and the Rotty is a repeat student. The American Bulldog, this was their first time to camp. But both of them are scary in my opinion. The AB, is leash reactive, the Rotty is dog aggressive, and maybe people aggressive or likely to be so. Both sets of owners are in denial about their dogs and that is what is sad.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm a bit overprotective and anxious but the situation that you describe with DA and PA dogs coupled with what seems to be irresponsible owners (leash dropping and denial) seems horrible. I'm also taken aback by the American bulldog being aggressive towards the trainer. Your description of the dogs as youngsters doesn't excuse their behaviors. I question whether it is appropriate for these dogs to be in a group class. Our current trainer runs what he calls a "growl" class which would seem like a better option. 

Given your dog experience and your unhappiness with the class can you discuss your concerns with the trainer? As the owner of a DA dog, denial is not helpful as a strategy. Owners need to learn to manage their dog and some dogs do not benefit from group.

Felony is recovered from her stroke. (Thanks again for your kind words) She reminded me today that she is dog aggressive. We were playing in the fenced tennis courts and a neighbor was passing with his dog. He waved me over and I went to the fence Fel followed, nosed open the door and attacked his dog!! Fortunately, her collar caught in the latch so she made no contact. I was careless but she is so good in controlled situations that I forgot what a jerk she can be. I'm on edge due to that situation.


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## CarrieJ (Feb 22, 2011)

The age can have a lot to do with it. 
I'm actually very conservative with the term "aggression" as sometimes I think it gets over used. For example: vocal, physical, play is often mistermed as aggression. It makes me want to bang my head against a wall....

But, the AB and the Rottie sound aggressive. Forward aggression towards humans is a dangerous dog in my opinion. Age aside, those owners probably need to get off the barge on the nile so to speak, before something tragic happens.

blehmannwa, I agree with that statement that the owners need to manage their dogs. I think maybe that they are humanizing the dogs; an 18 month old dog is eons different than an 18 month old human. They are not puppies at that age. Nor is the behavior puppy like IMO.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

The Rotty HATES the Doberman. They are both young males. The Rotty dislikes dogs with energy or displaying inappropriate exhuberance (Bear Bear), and given the opportunity he will charge into that mess. And whenever the opportunity arises (owner forgets she has a formidable dog on the other end of the leash), he charges, reacts. 

I think if the owner continues, continues, continues to get him out there and work with him, he may settle down some. 

The American Bulldog, well, last week, I suggested he google leash aggression, and try to read up on it. He has issues. I could tell from the first class with him. And I have been concerned having to work next to the dog with Dolly. Dolly is a special case as the people she was with did some very questionable things with both dogs and people. And then I had to keep her home, completely while she healed. So I am trying to ensure that she is not subjected to a seriously bad situation.

We really do not have any growl classes around here. In fact, my trainer has moved her regular classes farther west, so I am only going to those she holds outside at her home in the summer. These dogs need the classes as do my youngsters. I give them credit for doing something with their dogs. But it was a crazy group of classes.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

That's a good way to look at it--giving them credit for doing something with the dogs. The owners are trying and there is supervision.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Little update.

This summer I started with Odie in Basic and Dolly in Advanced. After six weeks of classes (a few were cancelled), I switched to Gretta in Basic and continued with Dolly in Advanced. 

Dolly was not spectacular in week 1 but she has been awesome ever since. Today was probably the seventh class. This is a drop in class, so it is different from week to week as to who comes. Thankfully the aggressive dogs have not shown this summer.

Today Dolly did the sit for exam perfectly, then the stand for exam perfectly, and a second time, she was not perfect. She let the trainer feel her head, back, and butt, and then when she was walking away, Dolly started to walk with her! I reset her, but did not scold. I walked away again, finished around her, up to the shoulder and then broke her out with plenty of praise. This is like a whoo-hoo moment for Dolly. 

The only negative thing to have happen was that toward the beginning of the class, Max the lab from the last classes decided to charge into her and she started to go and meet him. I told her to leave it, and she did and then the trainer told ME to get her attention on me, like she thought Dolly started that crap. But Dolly was fine, she down-stayed next to the crazy-year-old Golden that was being a total nut, and next to the lab. When the lab grabbed its leash and started running around instead of doing a recall, Dolly got a little excited, but did not act up. 

I guess what was nice is that everyone else's dog acted up in some way and I was just proud of my girl. The Doberman that was in class with eleven of my dogs, and several with several of them, aggressed when the golden nut case came in jumping and spinning. The Jack Russel couldn't take it when the lab was running around like a nut. The golden kept eating her leash and would have been bouncing off the walls if there were any walls. The other Golden came in at the end and she just came out of heat and she jumped all over the trainer when she did a meet and greet -- that one is owned by one of the sisters, obedience trainers/showers etc. Small class tonight and everyone in rare form. Even a firework was set off near by and all of our dogs just lay there being calm -- that was good too. 

Also, Max's owner came up afterwards and apologized for the beginning of class. She is taking him to classes twice a week and working and working and working with him, so I give her a lot of credit. I asked how old he is, and she said 2. I said he is just young. And they are. It might be my dog another night. I also said that I was really happy that she settled right down and did stays next to the other dogs, and she will probably encounter dogs at shows, and will still have to work, it was a good distraction. 

Another positive not was that the trainer asked if I was planning on showing her in August after watching me work with her just before the class started, like she felt we were getting close. That was good. I find that when I hold myself precisely, she is more precise. Hard to explain that, but when I pay close attention to my hand, body, how I hold the leash and walk, she pays better attention and does better.

I was pleased as punch with Dolly, and Gretta too on Tuesday.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, after another month of vacation due to being in heat, I had Dolly out there last night again. She started by pulling, but she got better as we were doodling. Her litter brother brought his owner, and I was very pleased with both of them. He is doing great. 

Dolly has come a LOOONG way, from the point where the people brought her back. She had wanted nothing to do with me, and was only interested with the dogs. She had to heal her leg which was injured, and I needed to regain her trust in people. She is 100% better than where she was a year ago. She did the sit for exam yesterday on lead, and the stand off lead with me 6' away. 

I was hugging this dog that wouldn't even make eye contact, look at me before when I got her back. She was working totally for praise. She was working with me, and she was asking for belly rubs. She never acted up at all amongst all the dogs that were there yesterday. I feel like I got her back -- oh, she has been fine at home, but that is what happens every day. I guess I give more credit to behavior when we are out and about. Her stays were awesome. I was able to go over and talk to the litter-mate's owner and pet her dog while Dolly was on a down stay. I also left her on a stay and went out 20' for the recall. Not a perfect sit in front of me, but otherwise, she stayed off lead, and then came when I called. 

After it was all over, she got a cheeseburger. 

Last week I got her chipped, along with Gretta. And the girls were really good. They had to stab Gretta three times, and then check it, but the did get it in there and checked with no opposition. Dolly was just a doll and only got stabbed once.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Glad your dogs are doing ok. What kind of training are you doing with them?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Gharrissc said:


> Glad your dogs are doing ok. What kind of training are you doing with them?


Something in between CGC, obedience, and rally. Gretta is actually in a CGC class. Dolly is in advanced obedience drop in on the day classes. But the goal for them is to get the CGC and then a rally title or two, and then depending on the dog a CD. Both dogs are already good at the stand for exam, which is usually my toughest part of that. But Gretta needs to work on stays, and they both need work on heeling. After we get good at loose lead walking, we will start on off lead heeling. We are doing recalls, and I guess we are really aiming toward the CD, but we will pick up the Rally first, and then decide on whether I want to continue. 

I have trained some in agility, and I have done a little herding, and some conformation, it really depends on the dog and what is available near here.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, I took both girls to the test. I did not think Gretta would pass, and she did not let me down. She failed Supervised Separation, though her walking was borderline terrible as well. I think the leash was loose once or twice.

Dolly passed with flying colors. Yay Dolly!!! 

She did everything exceptionally well. I was a little nervous at her reaction with the maltese, but she didn't do anything. And the lab that had charged her earlier was there. He too passed and there was no issues. The little terrier was not there, so everyone was pretty much acting up maybe to make up for the fact. 

There were three goldens and two of them were around Gretta's age, and they didn't pass. The older Golden did pass. The two black labs passed. The Border Collie passed. The maltese passed. No dobermans tonight, no overgrown out of control rottweilers, no little dog aggressive terrier. More dogs passed than failed. And we had a good time. 

Both girls got cheeseburgers tonight.


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## Gharrissc (May 19, 2012)

Sounds like they both earned the cheeseburgers! Are you going to try again with Gretta?


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Gretta is a special case. I got her back about a couple of months ago, when I was going nutso with puppies. I let her detox for a month and then started her in classes. Her previous owners were not bad people. They spent a small fortune on well-puppy visits at the vet, lots of vaccinations, lots of day care, etc. They took her to classes and walks, etc. They got through the puppy biting phase pretty much unscathed, but were very nervous when trying to socialize her outside of the family. I think that that nervousness must have traveled down the leash. In any case Gretta came back to me. I have been taking her out once a week to training classes. 

Today she seems to indicate that once a week is either not enough, or the barometer and the atmospherical location of the moon and other planetary beings is just so as to make her a tad bit loony. She was bouncing around, climbing up on me. I swear I have paw prints all over my t-shirt today. She has NEVER been this crazy in class before. 

She wasn't aggressive or reactive, just puppy zoomieish. Yes, I will try again, but probably next summer when the outdoor classes resume again. 

I got a lead on some day time classes that I will probably take with Dolly in preparation for the Christmas Classic. It really depends who needs the work most, and who is in heat.


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## Jag (Jul 27, 2012)

Poor Gretta! Yay to both your girls! I'm sure they enjoyed the cheeseburger treats!


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