# Does your dog look like his/her parents?



## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Not sure where to ask but since it has something to do with genetics, maybe Breeding section is relevant 
Wanted to ask you guys.. does you dog look like or at least resembles the parents? Reason I'm asking is my dog doesnt seem to look like either the dam or sire. I have their pics and now when my dog is almost 2 (1 year 10 months) and I can definitely say there is nothing in his looks from the parents.. It is surprising, isnt it.. perhaps the temperament is also not inherited from the parents? So you cant be sure what you are getting?..


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## bkernan (May 17, 2009)

Of all my three shepherds, Hudson definitely resembles his parents the most. He has his dam's coloring and a mixture of his dam and sire's face structure. Personality wise he is a mix of both parents I think. I've attached pictures of Hudson (the one on green carpet and his dam!). Hope that helps!


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

Singe









Titus, father









Narys, grandfather









Faro Policia, great-grandfather


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## Misha111 (Oct 31, 2016)

My late pups dam was black and tan, her sire was a blue. She was a solid black. Temperament wise she was a mixture of both.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

el_rex are you talking about colour or conformation, bone , head , coat , expression.

post pictures 
post pedigree - maybe the dog resembles a member of 2nd or 3rd generation or whatever dog they may
have been line bred on


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## LuvShepherds (May 27, 2012)

I have an all black working line (obviously not the one in the picture) who resembles his mother in the face but his father's body shape and type. I have noticed less variation in all black dogs than with other colors and lines. My WGSL dogs I got as puppies from a breeder didn't really look like either parent that much.


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## Deb (Nov 20, 2010)

Enya looks very much like her mother.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Dear everyone

Thank you very much for your input. I'm talking about coat, colour, expression, bone structure. Everything. My dog does not have a pedigree because he is of "pet" breeding. I guess it is possible he took after some of grandparental lines since he seems to be a mixture of many. I'm trying to post some pics. First pic is Rex, my dog. Coatie is the sire, and light pigmented dog is the dam. Maybe you see some resembles, but I dont.. My dog is quite tall but lean and not stocky, and as far as I remember the dam was relatively small and I was told the sire is stocky heavy boned guy (do you see that?)


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## Dainerra (Nov 14, 2003)

breeding without a set purpose means that you end up with a mish-mash of genes. One of the things many breeders strive for is uniformity of the litter. Or at least predictability - the pups will be of a certain size and have a certain set of expected traits. Yes, there can still be pups who fall outside the expected curve but even those you can usually point to where the specific trait came from.

With pet breeders, they don't have a goal nor do they have the knowledge of what genes the dogs in the pedigree carry. So every pup is a gamble of "what genes are going to pop up"


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I would say there is a physical resemblance, including head and expression , to the mother . 

I suppose neither one of them had hip or elbow x rays?

Is it the camera angle or does the male's left front leg (elbow area) seem swollen , leg turned out at pastern and spread toes?


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I agree with carm...resembles the mom, looks enough like both to believe they're his parents.

It's difficult with such a small sample size. I work with many dogs whose parents and grandparents I've known... about 8 out of 10 times I can recognize a relative before looking up the dogs parents. Sometimes its size, structure, color, expression, a brow feature, ear set, temperament, behavior, etc. but again, it helps that I see 50 labs a day for comparison.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Dainerra said:


> breeding without a set purpose means that you end up with a mish-mash of genes. One of the things many breeders strive for is uniformity of the litter. Or at least predictability - the pups will be of a certain size and have a certain set of expected traits. Yes, there can still be pups who fall outside the expected curve but even those you can usually point to where the specific trait came from.
> 
> With pet breeders, they don't have a goal nor do they have the knowledge of what genes the dogs in the pedigree carry. So every pup is a gamble of "what genes are going to pop up"


Yes, I'm aware about potential problems when "breeders" dont take things seriously and just breed their pets. To be honest I didnt know about this until I got registered to the forum and read some stories.. Still, Rex exists and I love him. He hasnt given me much problems yet (tough wood!) but I won't advocate pet breeding..
Interesting tho.. does it mean that desirable qualities are often recessive in nature thats why the uniformity of the litter is better achieved with appropriate and careful breeding of two dogs whose pedigree (looks, conformation, temperament etc) can be reliably traced back..


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

carmspack said:


> I would say there is a physical resemblance, including head and expression , to the mother .
> 
> I suppose neither one of them had hip or elbow x rays?
> 
> Is it the camera angle or does the male's left front leg (elbow area) seem swollen , leg turned out at pastern and spread toes?


Dam was but not the sire. I'm meant to hip test my dog but didnt get around to do this yet..
His left leg is fine, but the right one is indeed turned out at pastern (pics attached). Toes were spread since he was a baby and I did my best to correct this (walking on gravel, chippings, slow running, running the slops etc).. He is agile and very fast, doesnt seem to be in any discomfort. Hip test him anyways.


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Fodder said:


> I agree with carm...resembles the mom, looks enough like both to believe they're his parents.
> 
> It's difficult with such a small sample size. I work with many dogs whose parents and grandparents I've known... about 8 out of 10 times I can recognize a relative before looking up the dogs parents. Sometimes its size, structure, color, expression, a brow feature, ear set, temperament, behavior, etc. but again, it helps that I see 50 labs a day for comparison.


 It must be very interesting to identify the pedigree by just looking at the dog. Maybe its the uniformity that is lost because from where I live i cant see any dogs that stick out as "being of a kind". They all GSDs, but very different to one another and sometimes even look like different breeds.


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## Kyrielle (Jun 28, 2016)

El_rex said:


> Not sure where to ask but since it has something to do with genetics, maybe Breeding section is relevant
> Wanted to ask you guys.. does you dog look like or at least resembles the parents? Reason I'm asking is my dog doesnt seem to look like either the dam or sire. I have their pics and now when my dog is almost 2 (1 year 10 months) and I can definitely say there is nothing in his looks from the parents.. It is surprising, isnt it.. perhaps the temperament is also not inherited from the parents? So you cant be sure what you are getting?..


Yes. Jack looks exactly like his dam in both weight and appearance. I think his littermate probably grew up to look like his sire based on how fluffy and big he was as a puppy.


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

Love some of these photo comparisons - some of the resemblances are just striking. I think my girl will resemble her dam's mother in structure (Tina Jipo Me), but she has her sire's colouring (Ibon Jipo Me). I think she'll come in around 70-75lbs full grown, as she's currently 60lbs at 6 and a half months and 24" at the shoulder. I'll have to try and get a stacked photo of her for comparison.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

El_rex said:


> Dam was but not the sire. I'm meant to hip test my dog but didnt get around to do this yet..
> His left leg is fine, but the right one is indeed turned out at pastern (pics attached). Toes were spread since he was a baby and I did my best to correct this (walking on gravel, chippings, slow running, running the slops etc).. He is agile and very fast, doesnt seem to be in any discomfort. Hip test him anyways.


quick read - hope I understand you -- you are showing YOUR dogs right leg long and turned out pastern 

I was commenting on the SIRE's left leg which shows the same -- elbow looks swollen as you may see when a dog has arthritic changes in the elbow.

curious


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

carmspack said:


> quick read - hope I understand you -- you are showing YOUR dogs right leg long and turned out pastern
> 
> I was commenting on the SIRE's left leg which shows the same -- elbow looks swollen as you may see when a dog has arthritic changes in the elbow.
> 
> curious


Yes, I see what you mean. Will have to watch for the signs of arthritis in my dog. He is still fairly young and no health concerns so far, touch the wood.


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## Jax08 (Feb 13, 2009)

Seger has his mother's coloring. His father's head. His father's mothers conformation. Genetics follow thru many generations.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

El_rex said:


> Yes, I see what you mean. Will have to watch for the signs of arthritis in my dog. He is still fairly young and no health concerns so far, touch the wood.


You don't watch for signs of arthritis , you try to prevent it . 

because there is an almost mirror similarity I would x ray NOW -- hips and elbows . 

that way your efforts to prevent inflammatory process , including the pasterns , will have the greatest effect 

once a problem starts in the joints you will have degeneration and arthritic changes 

active - not reactive -- action on your part


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

carmspack said:


> You don't watch for signs of arthritis , you try to prevent it .
> 
> because there is an almost mirror similarity I would x ray NOW -- hips and elbows .
> 
> ...


OK, I'll x-ray him asap. Last time we went to see the vet she pulled and stretched his legs also rotating them to see if it gives the dog any visible discomfort, the dog did not react so the vet said no reason to x ray him now. I was trying to postpone it because he'll have to be put under general anesthesia and I don't like the idea of that. He is kind of skinny (or lean) with no visible fat reserves and I was told it can be dangerous..
Would you say his pasterns also look bad?


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## jasonmj58 (Apr 18, 2017)

Our girl Josie looks quite a bit like a mix of her parents.....Vader is still too young to know but I would guess he is going to have more black than our Josie (below in the red collar)


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## jasonmj58 (Apr 18, 2017)

Vader (9 weeks) and his parents


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

El_rex said:


> Not sure where to ask but since it has something to do with genetics, maybe Breeding section is relevant
> Wanted to ask you guys.. does you dog look like or at least resembles the parents? Reason I'm asking is my dog doesnt seem to look like either the dam or sire. I have their pics and now when my dog is almost 2 (1 year 10 months) and I can definitely say there is nothing in his looks from the parents.. It is surprising, isnt it.. perhaps the temperament is also not inherited from the parents? So you cant be sure what you are getting?..


Mine is the spitting image of her sire. Her coloring and facial features are exactly like his, only feminine. Evidently she has mannerisms like his as well. Her temperament is consistent with what I'm told he throws. I'm not certain what comes from her dam, beyond maybe her lesser rear angulation, but I've not met either of her parents and can only go on what shows in photos. I can take guesses based on all of the tracking titles in the German side of her pedigree and her propensity to keep her nose to the ground at all times, but they're only guesses and no more.


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## Amel814 (Sep 25, 2017)

Hey do you guys know what my dog will look like as a adult please lmk?


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## cheffjapman (Jun 8, 2017)

Arrow:









Dam:









Sire:









Sire and dam:









I don't have a better picture of her mom, but they have a very similar facial structure and way that they carry their ears. And Arrow's legs have changed from silver to tan and back again a couple of times.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Max I would say a combo of both parents. He is moderate in structure as both sire and dam are moderate. His nose reminds me of his dams we always say he looks like his momma Nicole. His grandsire on dam's side is on the large side. He is a late bloomer taking after his grand sire on his Mom's side. Max's dam -a bi color and Max's sire a patterned sable. Max a dark sable seemed to get his dam's bicolor pattern and his sire's sable gene. The size of his ears are defiantly a gift from his mom lol!!! Long tongue from his dad! He has some cadaver dog cousins which no doubt is in Max's blood. Great nose we were at the beach yesterday and everytime he would loose his toy to the wave he would air scent and find his toy in the foamy sea.

Not the greatest photos - max in bubble bath in sea foam , his dam Nicole and his two photos sire sarge to show sable color -his grand dad on his sire's side was also sable. Last photo of Max.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

Luna is a combo of her dam although her head I think reminds me a bit more of her sires but her side profile her dam's. I did not meet Luna's sire but met Luna's dam and grand dam who both match Luna's sweetness and vigor and met the grand sire who was a very solid dog and stable male. Luna's size matches her dams and grand dams. Even though Luna is quiet in house it is if she is on crack when she catches a scent on the trail -she does keep that nose to the ground which must be in the blood. I did not take photos of dam or sire. Photos of Luna, dam and sire. ( sire is on the left and his dam on the right -Luna's other grand dam)


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Is Luna a Mailo daughter? Just curious - he's produced some beautiful dogs.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> Is Luna a Mailo daughter? Just curious - he's produced some beautiful dogs.


Luna is a Mailo daughter I was just looking at the photos of him in that photo I can tell a resemblance. She is beautiful a great girl. I know one of her brothers look just like her when pups! I heard he was a good producer. She also has a really nice grandsire on moms side Leuan vom hohlen who we all fell in love with.


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## WateryTart (Sep 25, 2013)

Jenny720 said:


> Luna is a Mailo daughter I was just looking at the photos of him in that photo I can tell a resemblance. She is beautiful a great girl. I know one of her brothers look just like her when pups! I heard he was a good producer. She also has a really nice grandsire on moms side Leuan vom hohlen who we all fell in love with.


I like him a lot combined with the American bred dogs, but it looks like overall his puppies are gorgeous. Luna is beautiful.


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## Jenny720 (Nov 21, 2014)

WateryTart said:


> Jenny720 said:
> 
> 
> > Luna is a Mailo daughter I was just looking at the photos of him in that photo I can tell a resemblance. She is beautiful a great girl. I know one of her brothers look just like her when pups! I heard he was a good producer. She also has a really nice grandsire on moms side Leuan vom hohlen who we all fell in love with.
> ...


 I noticed asl breeders have used him. Thank you!!!!


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

Kaiser looks more like his mom, but he gets his goofy attitude from his dad.

Kaiser is the first 2 pics. Dam are the next two pics and Sire are the last two pics.


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## Hellish (Jul 29, 2017)

At 7 months I am finding that my pup has dad's temperament but physically he got so much from mom. Not just the obvious black coat color, but also the topline wave and overall texture. And he got her bone. Waiting to see if he pulls the large size of the maternal sire. 

(It has been decreed that I am not allowed to snap a good side pic of him standing.. the black blur wills otherwise. So here is a sloppy sit.)


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

It is amazing how much of resembles some of these dogs have.. Any of you aware if there is a book on GSD genetics? or maybe a paper study. I wonder what is dominant and what is recessive in the breed.. such as colour (guess sable is recessive same as solid black and black and tan is dominant).. But also there is height, ear stand/shape, expression, head shape and so on. Presumably most of the traits are polygenic, yet it would be curious to get some knowledge/insights.


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## jasonmj58 (Apr 18, 2017)

El_rex said:


> It is amazing how much of resembles some of these dogs have.. Any of you aware if there is a book on GSD genetics? or maybe a paper study. I wonder what is dominant and what is recessive in the breed.. such as colour (guess sable is recessive same as solid black and black and tan is dominant).. But also there is height, ear stand/shape, expression, head shape and so on. Presumably most of the traits are polygenic, yet it would be curious to get some knowledge/insights.


Color Genetics in German Shepherds

Check out this site you might find it helpful


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Malcolm Willis - 3 books that every GSD breeder should have for reference 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/577273.The_German_Shepherd_Dog 

Sable is dominant --- black is recessive to sable and to black and tan


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## Amel814 (Sep 25, 2017)

Hey guys this is my first ever german shepherd puppy his name is tigger and i already love this dog and the breed so much hes really smart im just curious how he is going to look like as a adult i have a picture of his mom and dad ( mom is the one on the floor) can someone please send a pic or describe how his fur etc is going to be? Thanks!!


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## El_rex (Jan 14, 2016)

Amel814, your pup looks to be bi-color, parents black and tan. hence, she'he will be darker, won't change much in my opinion


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

the pup looks great . 
are you sure that the male you showed is indeed the sire ????


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## Amel814 (Sep 25, 2017)

Carmspack 
Yes the male is the one thats on the couch and mom is the one on the floor.


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## Amel814 (Sep 25, 2017)

What tips would you guys give to me as a first time german shepherd owner. ( i excercise with him daily, play with him, socializing with animals and humans)


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Amel814 said:


> Carmspack
> Yes the male is the one thats on the couch and mom is the one on the floor.


oh I understood that -- but is there proof ?


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## CranberryGSD (Sep 10, 2017)

Amel814 said:


> Hey guys this is my first ever german shepherd puppy his name is tigger and i already love this dog and the breed so much hes really smart im just curious how he is going to look like as a adult i have a picture of his mom and dad ( mom is the one on the floor) can someone please send a pic or describe how his fur etc is going to be? Thanks!!


Is it just me, or does he look mixed?


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I would have a DNA for parentage done.

no breeder should object to this . 

get kit from , https://vetdnacenter.com/dna-tests/canine-dna-testing/canine-parentage-testing/ understand how to take the sample which you then return to the diagnostic lab

Accurate, inexpensive , non-invasive 
All it takes is a simple cheek swab of dam , male understood to be sire , and the puppy. 

that male may have been the sire to some of the pups , but your little Tigger ? A female can have pups from more than one sire during one heat cycle . Maybe.

the appearance and the colour just do not look like it would be coming from that male.


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## camperbc (Sep 19, 2017)

She is only 6 weeks old, but if our little Sheba ends up looking even _half_ as stunning as her Mom and Dad, we will be very pleased indeed!!

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland 

_Sheba - 6 weeks_



_Sheba's parents_


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

As carmspack said that does not look like the father. Also the pup does look a mixed. The head seems off...a little too square


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Looks almost like a rotty shepherd mix


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## Amel814 (Sep 25, 2017)

No hes a 100% german shepherd got a dna test done everyone says to me he looks mixed idk why


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## CranberryGSD (Sep 10, 2017)

Amel814 said:


> Hey guys this is my first ever german shepherd puppy his name is tigger and i already love this dog and the breed so much hes really smart im just curious how he is going to look like as a adult i have a picture of his mom and dad ( mom is the one on the floor) can someone please send a pic or describe how his fur etc is going to be? Thanks!!


Can you get pictures of grandparents and siblings?

His hair is just too smooth/short and his face is too square to look full blooded. Even his nose looks different.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

What DNA test was that ?


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## IronhideKennels (Jul 20, 2016)

Hellboy (Left), his sire Gladiator (Center) and his dam Ironhide (right).


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## CranberryGSD (Sep 10, 2017)

IronhideKennels said:


> Hellboy (Left), his sire Gladiator (Center) and his dam Ironhide (right).


All of them are very very very pretty!!!


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

I think Halo looks very much like her dam. Except with a bit more fur.


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## IronhideKennels (Jul 20, 2016)

Thank you  

This is my newest girl, Big Kahuna. She is also out of the same dam pictured, but different sire. Group shot with her, her dam, half brother and my unrelated male. And a picture of her sire. I'm not really sure who she looks like more?


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## Tennessee (Apr 13, 2017)

Yes. 

She looks exactly like you would expect if real life progeny were actually a 50/50 mix. It’s uncanny, she does heavily favor her Sire temperament wise though which I’m happy about.


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## Kelly_Jean (Oct 25, 2017)

Hera & Dakota look about identical! Hera (at a younger age) pictured first and her daughter Dakota, (at 6 months old) pictured second...she's about the spitting image of her momma! Dakota's siblings were all sable, except for one bi-colored male.


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