# personal support dogs?



## saucy2011 (Feb 1, 2011)

I met someone today in petsmart who had a gsd she said it waas her "personal support dog" was wondering if anyone else here had one? I was kind of confused as to what it was at first as i had never heard of it.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

I think that means "I don't have a disability but I want to take my dog everywhere bc he makes me not scared"


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## ZebsMommy (Dec 4, 2010)

It's for people with extreme anxiety issues, learning disabilities, things like that.


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## saucy2011 (Feb 1, 2011)

do they get to go everywhere with the person like a guide dog? I also wonder if the dog is trained in a certian way or to do certian tasks etc..


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I think you're referring to an emotional support animal. If so, no they do not have public access rights of a service dog. But they do have housing and travel rights (such as by plane) here in the states. 

Emotional Support Animals | Service Dog Central

Emotional support animal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## saucy2011 (Feb 1, 2011)

ic there is also something i read from those links called a psychiatric service animal


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Yes, but a PSD is an actual service dog that assists someone with a psychiatric disability, while the ESA is just a comforting presence in the home. You mentioned this happened at petsmart, where dogs are already allowed. A PSD accompanies their partner everywhere, while the ESA can only accompany the partner on an airplane or where pets are allowed. Canada has very strict laws regarding service animals, and only gives public access rights to those animals who have been trained through an accepted organization and requires them to carry certification at all times for this public access.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

I've never heard of the term "personal support dog". 
There are many types of service/assistance dogs and there are emotional support dogs but "personal support" is a first. It sounds like a personal assistant.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Lin said:


> Yes, but a PSD is an actual service dog that assists someone with a psychiatric disability, while the ESA is just a comforting presence in the home. You mentioned this happened at petsmart, where dogs are already allowed. A PSD accompanies their partner everywhere, while the ESA can only accompany the partner on an airplane or where pets are allowed. Canada has very strict laws regarding service animals, and only gives public access rights to those animals who have been trained through an accepted organization and requires them to carry certification at all times for this public access.


I think they should do this here (have a cert. for the individual to carry).


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

I disagree. The way the laws are currently set up give the most rights to the PWD (person with disability.) For many, acquiring a SD through an organization is not an option. You can be required to fundraise 20,000+ to pay for the dog, or wait years on a list. Most organizations require the dog to be returned upon retirement, and won't place a dog in a home with any other pets. 

I already had a multi pet home before deciding a service animal would be a big help. I also don't have the money or ability to fundraise, prefer to choose my breed (GSD), am absolutely unwilling to return a dog upon retirement... So I will only ever have owner trained SDs. 

As for some type of federal certification while still allowing owner trained dogs... Where would the money come from? Its not going to happen. Its also incredibly invasive when employees start questioning you about your disability and your dog.


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

Lin said:


> I disagree. The way the laws are currently set up give the most rights to the PWD (person with disability.) For many, acquiring a SD through an organization is not an option. You can be required to fundraise 20,000+ to pay for the dog, or wait years on a list. Most organizations require the dog to be returned upon retirement, and won't place a dog in a home with any other pets.
> 
> I already had a multi pet home before deciding a service animal would be a big help. I also don't have the money or ability to fundraise, prefer to choose my breed (GSD), am absolutely unwilling to return a dog upon retirement... So I will only ever have owner trained SDs.
> 
> As for some type of federal certification while still allowing owner trained dogs... Where would the money come from? Its not going to happen. Its also incredibly invasive when employees start questioning you about your disability and your dog.


I was referring to only the certification part with my response (sorry). Yes I imagine setting up a federal agency for this would be as costly and run as well as, say, other federal agencies. I just think that it would help people with disabilities avoid being asked invasive questions all the time and would prevent people from just putting a vest on their dog b/c they like taking them into places they shouldn't.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

Lin said:


> I disagree. The way the laws are currently set up give the most rights to the PWD (person with disability.) For many, acquiring a SD through an organization is not an option. You can be required to fundraise 20,000+ to pay for the dog, or wait years on a list. Most organizations require the dog to be returned upon retirement, and won't place a dog in a home with any other pets.


They don't all require this. My brother-in-law got a guide dog recently and they allow you to have other pets (they already had a cat), the dog was provided for free and the recipient gets to decide if they want to keep the dog when retired.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Chicagocanine said:


> They don't all require this. My brother-in-law got a guide dog recently and they allow you to have other pets (they already had a cat), the dog was provided for free and the recipient gets to decide if they want to keep the dog when retired.


My examples were pulled from various organizations, not all have the same requirements. But when I was looking at them, every single one had something that wouldn't work for me.


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## saucy2011 (Feb 1, 2011)

It would be interested to see or read about the life of a PSD and its partner. Just a world some of us never get to see. Felt so ignroant when i had no idea what the lady meant when she was talking to me about her PSD.


Dogs are such amazing animals.


When you guys say retired you mean when the dog is to old to perform the work?


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## saucy2011 (Feb 1, 2011)

Correct me if i am wrong but things like birds, cats, rabbits can all be ESA but only dogs are PSA (psychiatric)
*
*


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## Kris10 (Aug 26, 2010)

saucy2011 said:


> It would be interested to see or read about the life of a PSD and its partner. Just a world some of us never get to see. Felt so ignroant when i had no idea what the lady meant when she was talking to me about her PSD.
> 
> 
> Dogs are such amazing animals.
> ...


There is a section on service dogs here. Guide, Therapy & Service Dogs - German Shepherd Dog ForumsYou can read through some posts.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> It would be interested to see or read about the life of a PSD and its partner. Just a world some of us never get to see. Felt so ignroant when i had no idea what the lady meant when she was talking to me about her PSD.


There is a whole section of this forum dedicated to Service Dogs and Therapy Dogs where you might find a lot of information about the different types of dogs and what they do.  Another place to look at is Service Dog Central - Service Dog Central | Your ultimate source for service dog information


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

LOL posted at the same time as Kris.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Correct that only dogs can be service animals, but emotional support animals can be other species. Only service animals with their partner have any public access rights. 

You were in petsmart though, so I really believe the dog you met was an ESA.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

Recent area of involvement. There are dogs that are social therapy dogs for emotionally challenged persons. I have provided such dogs and spent as much time and did as thorough and comprehensive a job in preparing them , and critically evaluated them against a standard as I would any dog going for evaluation for police work. Failure to pass each aspect with a wide margin - no iffy , on the fence , or nearly , was cause to remove them from this calling . You really have to know your dogs since you pick them from pup age . You really need to know the end users needs and difficulties. The person had severe panic disorder , was under the care of a psychiatrist. The dog allowed him to have the confidence and mental calmness to function normally in a work place where the dog accompanied him every day . Eventually he gathered enough confidence and because he had regular long term employment was able to leave his family home and strike out on independent living. As part of the dogs training I would go to Torontos public transit, on and off escalators during rush hour , travel in the subway, all public transit modes. I would visit "friendly" small office buildings and ride the elevator to the 4th (top) floor and down . I would go to warehouses when deliveries got unloaded. Went to parades with sirens , and bands. Go to the boardwalk where you had everything imaginable -- in line skaters, loose running dogs, baby carriages etc etc. The dog was examined at his end to get the papers which allowed him access. Now I don't think that the rights and privileges were as extensive as a guide dog so he wouldn't be taking it to restaurants etc , which were outside of his personality anyway . We did take him to an outdoor cafe, or if you go to the Danforth (Toronto people will know) there are enough sidewalk cafes where you can tie the dog to the wrought iron enclosure and be seated beside the dog on the opposite side of the fence.
Of course the public will come and pat the doggy or stand there talking to the dog.

There are programmes where you have dogs visiting schools to help children learn to read. The dogs are non judgmental and have all the time to wait . 

Dogs deserve a lot of credit to how they enhance our lives.


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## Davey Benson (Nov 10, 2010)

carmspack said:


> ... As part of the dogs training I would go to Torontos public transit, on and off escalators during rush hour , travel in the subway, all public transit modes. I would visit "friendly" small office buildings and ride the elevator to the 4th (top) floor and down . I would go to warehouses when deliveries got unloaded. Went to parades with sirens , and bands. Go to the boardwalk where you had everything imaginable -- in line skaters, loose running dogs, baby carriages etc etc. ...


Sounds like heck. All the places I wouldn't even want to go. If a dog can handle all that, they are doing better than I could. I'm so glad I live out in the country.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> Dogs deserve a lot of credit to how they enhance our lives.


Certainly. But there needs to be a clearly understood distinction between a Therapy Dog, an Emotional Support Animal, and a Service Dog. In the US, they are very different from one another and viewed very differently by the law.

In the US, a Therapy Dog is a dog that is the personal pet of its handler and goes to visit other people, at old folks' homes, hospices, schools, libraries, etc. But the dog does not have any access anyplace unless it is working with its volunteer handler.

An Emotional Support Animal here is the handler's pet, which is trained to do nothing special, only provide emotional support. They have special rights only when it comes to housing and airplane travel. They are not allowed on public transportation, in restaurants, at the work place.

And a Service Dog is a dog specifically trained to do tasks for its disabled handler - whatever tasks that particular individual may need. They have public access anywhere their handler goes.


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## psdontario (Feb 2, 2011)

AbbyK9 said:


> Certainly. But there needs to be a clearly understood distinction between a Therapy Dog, an Emotional Support Animal, and a Service Dog. In the US, they are very different from one another and viewed very differently by the law.
> 
> In the US, a Therapy Dog is a dog that is the personal pet of its handler and goes to visit other people, at old folks' homes, hospices, schools, libraries, etc. But the dog does not have any access anyplace unless it is working with its volunteer handler.
> 
> ...


You have outlined the specific requirements of each "level" of dog in great detail, however, you mentioned that "there needs to be a clearly understood distinction" between them. Could you explain why this distinction is so important? How it affects the public, etc. ?

Thank you

Mike


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

In the U.S., it has to do with the last part of each description she gave. It goes to where the dog is allowed and special priviledges the dog/handler enjoy in public places.
It also has to do with what the PWD can be asked or required to prove in regard to the animal.


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## shannonrae (Sep 9, 2010)

Davey Benson said:


> Sounds like heck. All the places I wouldn't even want to go. If a dog can handle all that, they are doing better than I could. I'm so glad I live out in the country.


Ditto!


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## psdontario (Feb 2, 2011)

CassandGunnar said:


> In the U.S., it has to do with the last part of each description she gave. It goes to where the dog is allowed and special priviledges the dog/handler enjoy in public places.
> It also has to do with what the PWD can be asked or required to prove in regard to the animal.


I understand the levels and access, just wondering why these distinctions are so important. Public safety? Liability? I could see both being high on the list for sure in the land of litigation. Just curious about that, have little experience or knowledge in this area.

Thanks

Mike


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## CassandGunnar (Jan 3, 2011)

psdontario said:


> I understand the levels and access, just wondering why these distinctions are so important. Public safety? Liability? I could see both being high on the list for sure in the land of litigation. Just curious about that, have little experience or knowledge in this area.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike


Both liability and access rights. It is possible to order a vest and "certificate" online that certifies your dog. There a number of people who get the vests so that they can take their dog anywhere they want.
There are several threads about some of the legal issues but the law is very vague and there is lots of interpretaion and "fudge room".


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## Jax's Mom (Apr 2, 2010)

Lin said:


> I disagree. The way the laws are currently set up give the most rights to the PWD (person with disability.) For many, acquiring a SD through an organization is not an option. You can be required to fundraise 20,000+ to pay for the dog, or wait years on a list.


In Canada, service dogs are paid for by our universal healthcare. Each month, the dogs also receive a service dog benefit which is to be used for food and vet care.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

The law isn't vague, actually. Its very clear. At least the federal law regarding SDs. Rights are clearly outlined, when it comes to SDITs (service dogs in training) they have no federal access rights. So you have to look to state law, which may or may not be clear.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

Jax's Mom said:


> In Canada, service dogs are paid for by our universal healthcare. Each month, the dogs also receive a service dog benefit which is to be used for food and vet care.


Thats awesome. Too bad its not that way here! Even if we did get some sort of universal healthcare, I don't see it ever covering SDs. Its hard enough to get life saving measures covered by government insurance.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

Lin and Chris are giving some very good answers here.

There is a difference in Candian Law and U.S. Law. So when reading what one poster states you may want to take a look and see where they are from. 

I am weak on Candian Laws as that is not my area. Here in the U.S. we have SDs under Federal Law with some states with slight differences. In this case it is the law which gives the greatest benefit to the PWD which is followed. But if someone claims the rights of their State they must then follow the regulations of that state. If the state requires ID or a certain color of equipment, then those handlers claiming higher rights under their state must follow the regs of ID or a certain color of equipment. The handler can not take part of one law for their benefit and then not follow through with any additional requirements.

The big difference which has already been stated I believe by Chris is what the dog has been trained to do.

Service Dogs: Must be individually trained to mitagate the handler's disability. Training averages 18-24 months. They work only for their owner/handler.

PSDs are a type of Service Dog.


Therapy Dogs: The handler may or may not be disabled. Training can be done in as little as 8 weeks. These dogs and handlers may or may not belong to an organization. These dogs may or may not be registered or insured. It is up to the facility where they are visiting to make their own requirements. Therapy Dogs are *Pet Dogs* that go with their owner to visit others. 


Emotional Support Animal: Are common pets. The only reason to get the title *ESA* is for the added benefit of housing in a no pet rental or in rare cases owner owns home but falls under the regs of a home owner's organization. There are various laws for various types of housing. They also are allowed to fly on U.S. planes (and others under certain circumstances) in the cabin with the owner. 

They are either recommended by the medical team or doctor "prescription/note". They can be any type of domestic animal such as a dog or cat. This is not so someone can own a pet in no-pet housing but must be considered as part of a treatment and will be noted as such in the owner's medical files. 

All the above are simple explanations as each can take pages to explain about the various laws and when they apply. It is easier if someone has a specific question to make sure they are getting the type of answer that they desire.


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## carmspack (Feb 2, 2011)

I understand the different levels of (helper dogs - term lumping them all together) .
I have dogs , including "Trust" on the http://birchbarkhill.blogspot:com/80 . They are certified by St John's Ambulance . They do hospital visitations , retirement homes. There are charitable organizations such as the Lions Foundation which receive, train, and place dogs for service. I was approached by an organizer for "Lions" to provide a dog (psd Mike you know who this is) -- and then the project got changed into an entirely different function . Have not picked up on this change --.

I have had dogs in "therapeutic" use for half way houses , and wilderness retreat for youth in trouble with the law . These are not pets. These were government run organizations .


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> I understand the different levels of (helper dogs - term lumping them all together) .


From your post it sounds like your *Helper Dogs* are more what we in the U.S. refer to as *Therapy Dogs* except the majority of our TDs are owned by individuals with relatively few owned by retirement homes and such.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Seems to me that there should be state or federal licencing of all of these dogs. Or maybe there already is and i am simply not aware of it?

If they are to get special access and other privileges (and I certainly don't have a problem with that),then there should be a common professional level certification of both their capabilities and their temperament.

Any body have a reference to a clear explanationof how one would have to go about haveing your dog certified as one of the above described categories of dog?


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

There is no national certification required for any type of therapy or service dogs in the U.S. 
The ADA has requirements for service dogs, but it doesn't include any sort of licensing, certification or testing.
The way I understand it, while some states may have their own requirements/licenses for service dogs, the ADA overrides these so individuals who don't follow the state's requirements still have protection under the ADA to take their service dogs with them. However, if the state has any special services/programs they offer above or beyond the ADA, they can require service dogs to have their state license to get those services. For example, the ADA does not cover service dogs in training, but some states do specifically allow trainers with service dogs in training the same public access as people with full service dogs. However if you want to take advantage of the state's access laws you must follow the state's requirements.

Therapy dogs are generally tested or certified by the organization the owner/dog volunteer with, but each organization has their own requirements.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sounds like an area ripe for "fraud" or at least exageration of an individual desire to have his/her dog with them everywhere.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

codmaster said:


> Seems to me that there should be state or federal licencing of all of these dogs. Or maybe there already is and i am simply not aware of it?
> 
> If they are to get special access and other privileges (and I certainly don't have a problem with that),then there should be a common professional level certification of both their capabilities and their temperament.
> 
> Any body have a reference to a clear explanationof how one would have to go about haveing your dog certified as one of the above described categories of dog?


As stated, there is no national certification program. This will never happen, due to the costs that would be involved. As I mentioned earlier, in Canada service dogs are required to be acquired from a recognized institution and carry certification at all times for public access. Here, it doesn't work that way. However this allows for the maximum rights to the PWD. A service dog is considered medical equipment in the eyes of the law, and refusing entry to a service dog is discrimination as refusing entry to a wheelchair would be. 

There would have to be a lot of money involved to put together some sort of federal certification program. And if you took away the option of owner trained SDs, then the PWD has less rights and options. Say you still allow owner trained dogs, but require them to be tested and certified in a federal manner. Again, who is going to pay? Are we going to bump taxes up? Require the disabled to come up with the money? If so, again they are losing rights/options if they can't afford it. 

There are specific requirements on what qualifies as a service dog. The handler must be considered legally disabled, and the dog must meet the requirements in obedience, public access, and service tasks. If there is any doubt as to a service dogs validity, the team can be taken to court. In the court room the handler would have to prove they are indeed legally disabled and prove their dogs training as a SD which usually includes detailed records and logs as well as a demonstration for the judge. 

I think people taking pets places as if they were SDs is a huge problem. But I'm also for the maximum rights to the individual. Those that are taking their pets in stores illegally usually already know what they are doing is illegal. They just don't care. So in most cases, stricter laws is going to punish the law abiding instead. A better option IMO is education on what employees can ask a handler, behaviors that are grounds to ask the team to leave, etc.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> Seems to me that there should be state or federal licencing of all of these dogs. ... If they are to get special access and other privileges


I'm glad you brought up the access part.

Of course there is more to it but the simple version:

Service (or Assistance) Dogs: are allowed to go with their handler to most places the handler goes, but there are several exceptions. As Lin posted, a SD is legally addressed as a piece of medical equipment. People who take their pets and try to pass them off as a SD are breaking the law. Some states are more severe than others with high fines, jail time, the dog may be taken from the owner, and several even can go as far as taking some state benefits from the owner. 

Emotional Support Dogs: are not allowed into grocery stores or other places where food is sold. They have access where any other pet dog is allowed. The only additional places they are allowed are in no-pet housing (under certain circumstances) and on domestic flights with proper paperwork. 

Therapy Dogs: they are only allowed to go to areas where other pet dogs are welcomed and into facilities in which they are invited.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

codmaster said:


> Sounds like an area ripe for "fraud" or at least exageration of an individual desire to have his/her dog with them everywhere.


It is, in fact there are companies out there with scams who will provide "paperwork" and vests for a fee to people who want to take their dogs everywhere with them. 
However there are requirements for service dogs listed in the ADA, and most states have laws that state passing a pet dog off as a service dog is a felony.
To have a service dog individuals first have to be considered legally disabled under the ADA, and the dog must be trained to mitigate their disability by doing trained tasks or work. However, no paperwork or certification needs to be shown for public access. 
Service dogs must be well behaved. If a service dog (or a pet being passed off as one) is disruptive or ill behaved in public or in a business, the dog and handler can be asked to leave. This can cut down on the scammers/fakes.


Here is part of the ADA text on service dogs:



> *Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the handler's disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens, retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors. The crime deterrent effects of an animal's presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition. *


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## JakodaCD OA (May 14, 2000)

I think I"m going to move this thread to Therapy/guide dog section


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Well, I don't know about all the rules and such..but my dogs provide me emotional support everyday. I could not live with out them!!


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> They are certified by St John's Ambulance . They do hospital visitations , retirement homes.


Those are Therapy Dogs, not Service Dogs.



> I have had dogs in "therapeutic" use for half way houses , and wilderness retreat for youth in trouble with the law . These are not pets. These were government run organizations .


These are also Therapy Dogs, except that they are owned by an organization and not an individual. There are Therapy Dogs in the US, too, that belong to facilities such as nursing homes. 

They are NOT Service Dogs. A Service Dog is only a Service Dog if it is trained to do very specific things for one disabled handler - tasks that help that handler with his/her disabilities. Dogs that belong to an organization or home, such as Therapy Dogs, may have certification for their Therapy work, but they are still PETS of that facility and do not have public access nor do they work for a specific disabled handler.


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## ILGHAUS (Nov 25, 2002)

> my dogs provide me emotional support everyday.


I think most of us would say that about our dogs but bottomline and legally they are still pets and not Emotional Support Animals.

In order to be an ESA, your doctor must believe the presence of an emotional support animal is *necessary* for your mental health. The doctor will then write a prescription for an ESA. 

REMEMBER: If your doctor decides to write such a prescription for an ESA this will become part of your medical records. This is not something to be done without thought.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

I kind of think the "personal support dog" idea means someone wanted to be able to bring their dog everywhere and they decided that they are not abusing the system if they make up a category that they think the dog falls under. Since they were in the store it seems to work.


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## Chicagocanine (Aug 7, 2008)

kiwilrdg said:


> I kind of think the "personal support dog" idea means someone wanted to be able to bring their dog everywhere and they decided that they are not abusing the system if they make up a category that they think the dog falls under. Since they were in the store it seems to work.


They said the dog was in Petsmart. All dogs are allowed in Petsmart so that doesn't mean much.


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## Lin (Jul 3, 2007)

kiwilrdg said:


> I kind of think the "personal support dog" idea means someone wanted to be able to bring their dog everywhere and they decided that they are not abusing the system if they make up a category that they think the dog falls under. Since they were in the store it seems to work.


As CC pointed out, they were in petsmart where dogs are welcome. In addition, ESA's are NOT allowed in stores where pets are not welcome. Neither are therapy dogs... The distinctions have been repeated a few times in this thread.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

> They said the dog was in Petsmart.


Sorry, I missed that.


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## AbbyK9 (Oct 11, 2005)

> In addition, ESA's are NOT allowed in stores where pets are not welcome. Neither are therapy dogs... The distinctions have been repeated a few times in this thread.


KiwiLRDG knows that ESA's and Therapy Dogs are not allowed in stores where pets are not welcome and he knows the differences between ESA's, Therapy Dogs, and Service Dogs. I believe the point he was making is that many people will tell a store employee that their dog is an ESA or a Therapy Dog so they can bring the dog in, because most store employees do not know the difference between the different types of dogs and think because they have an official "title", such as Therapy Dog, they must be a type of Service Dog.


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## kiwilrdg (Aug 26, 2010)

It is kind of like handicapped parking spaces. I see too much abuse so I am overly suspicious. Someone inventing a category at a place where all well behaved dogs are welcome does make me think that it might be tried in other places. Of course I tend to suspect everyone and happily prove myself wrong when I see it was not as bad as I expected.


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