# Would this be a good breeder to purchase a dog from?



## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

Hello, I've only rescued dogs in the past and now wish to purchase from a reputable breeder. I found this one on the AKC search website, and I'd like to hear some 2nd opinions about it. It's called SoCalGermanShepherds. I can't link to it yet, as I have just created this account. You can find it by Googling though.


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## holland (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is the link So Cal German Shepherds - Titan


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## tim_s_adams (Aug 9, 2017)

If you use the search tool on the forum here and search for "good breeders in California" you'll find some very good information on the criteria for selecting a breeder, as well as, several kennel names you might consider. Good luck finding your new puppy!


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

FouzBerzerk said:


> Hello, I've only rescued dogs in the past and now wish to purchase from a reputable breeder. I found this one on the AKC search website, and I'd like to hear some 2nd opinions about it. It's called SoCalGermanShepherds. I can't link to it yet, as I have just created this account. You can find it by Googling though.


Just some friendly advice, educate yourself on the difference between Show Lines and Working lines. 

Not all Show lines can been shown, not all working lines can actually work. Both can make awesome family pets if you find a good one, 
both can make good sport dogs if you find a good one, etc. etc.

Figure out what is best for your lifestyle/family and go from there.

Research before you buy, some breeders are honest, some are not. Web sites can be deceiving, All that Glitters is not Gold.

When possible, always go and visit the breeder in person and view the Sire/Dam. If something feels wrong....99% of the time it is!

Take your time, you will be happy you did.

Good luck

Kim


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

Both show-line and working line would be fine for me, I just want a really nice GSD, won't be taking it to shows and I don't have work for it.


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## wolfy dog (Aug 1, 2012)

FouzBerzerk said:


> I don't have work for it.


:|

Can you explain what your expectations are for this dog? Any German Shepherd dog needs at lest some work. Most need a lot. 'Work' as in play, train, fun activities with you


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Well, either probably would be fine for you, but they are different, perhaps as different as two or more different breeds. And, you need to be able to let your breeder know exactly what you are looking for in terms of energy requirements, drives, trainable, experience level, and so forth. 

You do your research to determine which line is more likely to match what you want, and then you go and visit breeders who produce those dogs. 

The dogs look different as well. And, unfortunately, you just can't ignore health. 

It could be helpful to make a list, in the order of importance, of what you are looking for and how best to get what you are looking for. As an example:

1. Health -- how old are the parents, how old are there parents, are they still living, what genetic testing for common health problems does the breeder do on breeding dogs. 

2. Temperament -- Looking for a dog that is solid in nerve -- no noise anxiety, storm anxiety, human aggressive, dog aggressive -- what is the breeder doing to "prove" breeding stock? Titles? Training? Can you meet the dam? Is the sire on site/can you meet him, or any of the grand parents. 

3. Who is the pup? Higher in drive than litter-mates, lower? Higher in energy -- lower? Higher in pack-order -- lower? What can you tell me about his intelligence? Dependence/independence? There is only so much you know by eight weeks of age, but an astute breeder can give you an impression of where each pup falls in the pack. Lots will be middle of the road pups and most owners would be best to choose. There are pups that should go to experienced homes, that may have more of one trait or another. A lot of breeders will choose the pup for you, or give you a choice between a couple of puppies that best match your needs and wants, in that order.

Looks -- land last on the list. Yes, it may be important for you to have a black and tan dog with ears up that everyone won't ask you if it is a lab-mix. But it is not important next to health and temperament. It does not matter what you intend to do with the puppy, all owners want a healthy dog, that isn't going to drive their insurance rates through the roof because it is so afraid that it bites people. But then there are dogs that are perfectly ok in the head that aren't right for you. What would drive you up a wall, might be exactly what another person would give their I-teeth for. High drive, high energy, solid nerve, independence, strong will, good aggression -- may be perfect GSD temperament, but without commitment to training/working with the dog it could become a nuisance barker, destructive, escape artist; without proper leadership and guidance, could make poor decisions, choose not to respect weak leaders, etc. 

Do your research. These are the best dogs on the planet, but they can also be the worst when the match is not right.


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

wolfy dog said:


> :|
> 
> Can you explain what your expectations are for this dog? Any German Shepherd dog needs at lest some work. Most need a lot. 'Work' as in play, train, fun activities with you


About that, I meant that I don't live on a farm or anything. So I don't have like, literal work for it to do (like herding or whatever). I will obviously be training it, playing with it outside, and walking it daily.


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

Honestly, right now, it's between these 2 sites as these are the only AKC registered ones in my area. https://www.diamondoaksranch.com/ and So Cal German Shepherds 

I like both better in different areas, Diamond Oaks Ranch has a bit more documentation on it and has a lot of reviews on it, while SoCalGermanShepherds has a 5 year health guarantee while Diamond Oaks only has a one year.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

As soon as a breeder highlights Large, I tend to stop right there. When I can't easily find health checks like ofa hips and elbows, it brings out the cynic in me. You basically want a healthy, confident dog, you can have fun with. So I'd go see the dogs in person, see if you can verify health records, and see if the breeders dogs match what you want.


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## Slamdunc (Dec 6, 2007)

Steve Strom said:


> As soon as a breeder highlights Large, I tend to stop right there. When I can't easily find health checks like ofa hips and elbows, it brings out the cynic in me. You basically want a healthy, confident dog, you can have fun with. So I'd go see the dogs in person, see if you can verify health records, and see if the breeders dogs match what you want.


Yup, I'm with Steve. As soon as I see a breeder advertising "Large" GSD's I'm finished. "Large and GSD" is rarely ever seen on a knowledgeable and reputable breeder's site. Size is not an indicator of quality; and advertising "large" GSD's is often a sign of poor quality and poor breeding.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Typically I'd agree with the above posters but in this case I don't see an issue. He's describing the stud as large. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, unless I missed where they said they breed for size and chose him for size. I've seen more than one reputable breeder who does this on their site. If I'm mistaken and they are advertising their dogs for size then I take it back. 

They've had their health screenings done. They say you get a 5 year health guarantee. One thing I don't like is they only have the two male dogs and a handful of females. So to me that's a sign that they want as many pups on the ground(and for sale) as they can manage. Overall nothing else really jumps out at me as a red flag.


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## Muskeg (Jun 15, 2012)

I agree, Goose, I don't see any red flags with that breeder. I'd go meet sire and dam and see if they are what you are looking for in a pup. Try to see how the sire or dam acts in an area outside the home, out in public, ask a lot of questions. For what you are looking for this might be a nice match, and I have to admit I do like the look of his dogs. I love a nice red and black WGSL, a nicely bred one can be a gift. One of my favorite GSDs ever was a WGSL like the ones from this breeder, he was stable, drivey, confident, and very handsome, really nice dog.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

Look at the other one the op added today.


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## KaiserAus (Dec 16, 2016)

My dog's sire's official show critique describes him as a very large purely because he is 65.5cm (25.8 inch) which is above the breed standard of 65cm. I don't see it that it means that they are actually breeding for that size or that "large" means they are way over the breed standard.

_Very large, medium strong, well proportioned, very well coloured, sire typical male that shows much harmony in stance and movement. Very good head and expression with desired eye colour. Correct length of neck, high withers, firm back, very good length and lay of croup. Very good forequarter angulation, very good hind angulation. In movement displays very good movement. Gunsure. Breed Surveyor - Mr R Wenham_


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

So I should avoid Diamond Oaks (linked previously)? They advertise the "large german shepherds" and it's the first thing you see on their site. They also only have a 1 year health guarantee while SoCalGermanShepherds has a 5 year.


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

FouzBerzerk said:


> So I should avoid Diamond Oaks (linked previously)? They advertise the "large german shepherds" and it's the first thing you see on their site. They also only have a 1 year health guarantee while SoCalGermanShepherds has a 5 year.


 oh that must be the one slam and Steve were talking about. Yea I agree I'd avoid them. From a quick look at their site the dogs just look fat. And they talk about schutzhund and working and titles yet I don't see many of those in their pedigrees. If you're after a show line dog I don't see anything wrong with the other breeder but I'd definitely stay away from diamond oaks


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## Leon big boy (Feb 1, 2017)

My friend, i AM not a expert but o thing you dont have to worry do much about get the perfect puppy. The mais thing is have the luck to get a good and healty puppy and mainly love and take good Care of him. If you do that your puppy Will make you Very happy, no matterl his size ir temper. Relax and bem happy! :wink2:


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## thegooseman90 (Feb 24, 2017)

Leon big boy said:


> My friend, i AM not a expert but o thing you dont have to worry do much about get the perfect puppy. The mais thing is have the luck to get a good and healty puppy and mainly love and take good Care of him. If you do that your puppy Will make you Very happy, no matterl his size ir temper. Relax and bem happy!


 OP this is terrible advice. Ignore all of it except the "I am not an expert part"


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

FouzBerzerk said:


> So I should avoid Diamond Oaks (linked previously)? They advertise the "large german shepherds" and it's the first thing you see on their site. They also only have a 1 year health guarantee while SoCalGermanShepherds has a 5 year.


Personally, I don't put much importance on guarantees. I focus on the dogs being bred and whether or not I feel I can trust the breeder. You can't post directly negative comments about breeders here, so I'd say verify health checks and meet the dogs in person. Plan on the guarantee not being so great, then if it actually is, good.


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## Leon big boy (Feb 1, 2017)

thegooseman90 said:


> OP this is terrible advice. Ignore all of it except the "I am not an expert part"


:grin2:


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Diamond Oaks has 2 males and 11 females... not a breeder that I would go with. Not every female will match up with the two males, so they are breeding only to produce puppies to sell, and not concerned with all the other aspects that should go into considering a good breeding match.

Similar with SoCal, 2 males and 6 females. At least all the dogs are Show Lines, and not a mix of German and or American lines like the other breeder you listed. They have one litter ready to go, and another that was born the end of last month... two litters at the same time, and 4 more females to breed... I personally would pass. 

I prefer a breeder that only has a few dogs, and is actively doing something with their dogs, as well as the official health testing. Good Luck!!


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## Fodder (Oct 21, 2007)

I have an idea.... let's ask the OP what they're looking for in a dog and point them in the direction of some reputable SoCal breeders. It's not what they asked for but they also seem to be under the impression that being listed on the AKC registery actually vouches for these breeders and it does not. There are many more legit breeders in that area...


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## mnm (Jan 9, 2006)

Yes, I agree, listing on the AKC website does not necessarily mean that they are a good and reputable breeder.


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

Fodder said:


> I have an idea.... let's ask the OP what they're looking for in a dog and point them in the direction of some reputable SoCal breeders. It's not what they asked for but they also seem to be under the impression that being listed on the AKC registery actually vouches for these breeders and it does not. There are many more legit breeders in that area...


Just a really high quality German Shepherd. My budget is around 3000$ though, I can't go much higher than that.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

FouzBerzerk said:


> Just a really high quality German Shepherd. My budget is around 3000$ though, I can't go much higher than that.


Unless you put some time and effort at understanding the variety in the breed, you are probably going to shell out way too much for a dog that probably won't fit your needs.


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## gsdsteve (Apr 24, 2010)

*good breeder*

Camilla at Sentinel Harts has a litter on the ground that might be right for you!


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## Pirates Lair (Aug 9, 2011)

gsdsteve said:


> Camilla at Sentinel Harts has a litter on the ground that might be right for you!



So far, in my opinion only.

This is the best Kennel that has been directed to you to, to consider calling about a pup.



Kim


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

Pirates Lair said:


> gsdsteve said:
> 
> 
> > Camilla at Sentinel Harts has a litter on the ground that might be right for you!
> ...


I contacted them as well recently. Their pups are 2500 and the dam only scored "fair" with the ofa


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## Femfa (May 29, 2016)

I would never discount a fair dog personally, unless the combination of the sire and the dam were known to produce poor hips. Excellent dogs can produce pups with HD, and Fair dogs can produce pups with Excellent hips. There's no guarantee either way, and lots of times Fair dogs are bred to other dogs that are known to help improve structure/hip strength.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

konathegsd said:


> I contacted them as well recently. Their pups are 2500 and the dam only scored "fair" with the ofa



Fair is still passing. I personally know Camilla. One thing I can say is, she is honest and straight up. I've seen or worked a couple of her dogs and like them. She's a breeder I could support.


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

selzer said:


> Unless you put some time and effort at understanding the variety in the breed, you are probably going to shell out way too much for a dog that probably won't fit your needs.


I've owned at least 20 different dogs, and at least 10 different dog breeds. I'm fully aware of the variety in the breed and have done my research on it.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

As mycobraracr pointed out, fair is a passing grade with OFA. Fair is not a dysplatic dog and is perfectly acceptable for breeding. One needs to look at the whole dog and the genetic history of the dog and not get myopic about one facet of the dog.


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## lhczth (Apr 5, 2000)

*I removed some rude comments and the responses. I don't want to have to remove anymore. 

ADMIN Lisa
*


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## konathegsd (Dec 3, 2016)

The dams dam was fair too but everything else looked good!

Thanks for the info! Never knew that.


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## Steve Strom (Oct 26, 2013)

FouzBerzerk said:


> I've owned at least 20 different dogs, and at least 10 different dog breeds. I'm fully aware of the variety in the breed and have done my research on it.


What I think would matter most for you, is the individual dogs being bred. A lot of things are going to come down to what do you like, not the varieties or other's descriptions of things. When I say you should see the dogs, I'm not implying you don't know anything about them in general, just that you're impression may be different then what you have read or been told on the phone. You may like something I wouldn't and vice versa. But I'd still avoid anyone pushing Large.


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## FouzBerzerk (Sep 3, 2017)

I've done a bit more research and I have seen this breeder recommended on here before. Any comments on this litter? https://www.lundborg-land.com/german-shepherds/current-puppy-litters/ken-x-quinie/#


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## SentinelHarts (May 7, 2011)

Hello all,


I want to chime in here regarding a few things as I think these forums are a good learning resource for people well beyond the original poster's inquiry- first - to those who have put in a good word for me, thanks. 


As to my female with the fair hips- Her name is Yakobi von dem Waldkonig. She is rated OFA Fair. I have attached a copy of her hip xray, which is also posted on her page of my website. I post my dogs xrays so that people can see the images for themselves as there are multiple factors that contribute to a dog's hip rating. In Yakobi's case, she has well rounded hip joints that fit snugly into the sockets without laxity and she has no degeneration or remodeling. In her case, she has less than optimal coverage - which means that the socket itself could be deeper which would allow more coverage of the ball but overall she has hips that are acceptable for breeding. The only offspring that she has produced that has been evaluated by the OFA received an Excellent hip rating and normal elbows. I expect that there will be more of her offspring rated in the years to come I am attaching the link to her offspring's OFA page for anyone that wants to verify Orthopedic Foundation for Animals


In my selection of males for her, I have put an emphasis on choosing dogs with not just good hip ratings but also dogs with deeper hip sockets.


Personally, I like to know what my dog's hips look like in order to understand why they got their rating. If possible, I pair what is see in the xray/s not just the rating itself- in addition to matching up dogs that compliment each other in temperament, drive, conformation etc.


It seems that the OP is hoping to find a breeder closer to them. So, in the SoCal area I suggest Aus Dem Tal German Shepherds. While she is a dedicated working dog breeder, she can help the OP select a puppy that is suitable to a companion home. Also, Cynthia Binder DVM at BinderHaus German Shepherds is a showline/blended lineage breeder that is active in herding, obedience and agility sports with her dogs, does all appropriate health testing, produces nice stable dogs and has about one litter a year.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

There's nothing wrong with breeding fair hips.


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## Irma Kopstein (Sep 26, 2018)

Has there been any more updates in SoCal breeders
I was torn between SoCal Gsd and diamond oaks but now not so sure


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