# Another Dog Shot by Police :(



## Faelan

RIVERSIDE: Family upset that police killed their dog | Breaking News | PE.com - Press-Enterprise


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## juliejujubean

not cool


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## PatchonGSD

Total b.s.


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## Twyla

Not pointing fingers or taking sides on this case.

This is an example of why, if you live anywhere there are homes close together especially, that you don't leave your dog outside when you aren't home. The exception being the dog is in a good kennel.


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## msvette2u

Twyla said:


> Not pointing fingers or taking sides on this case.
> 
> This is an example of why, if you live anywhere there are homes close together especially, that *you don't leave your dog outside when you aren't home. The exception being the dog is in a good kennel.*


:thumbup:


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## x0emiroxy0x

"Lt. Guy Toussaint said that the officer was actually in the backyard, was charged by the dog and fired his gun to protect himself."

I guess he should have let himself be mauled, or let the murder suspect get away. 

Funny how the pitbull people always complain that ALL pitbull attacks are in the news, but the news never reports when pits do something good.

Same with police....

I bet if they had let the murder suspect get away rather than shooting this charging dog, if the murderer had gone in this families house and killed someone, the family would have sued the cops. Lose lose situation for police.


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## llombardo

They kill the barking dog AND they don't catch the bad guy???


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## Nikitta

Isn't it tresspassing to go into a yard of people you are not even after? No matter what breed they are, many dogs will protect. Is that an excuse to shoot them? I think the police should be trained better then that. He heard the dog barking. What did he think was going to happen?


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## Jax08

I"m on the fence on this one...what a lose-lose situation for the officer to be in. First, he has to get back there to look for the suspect. But a person should be able to leave their dog in their fenced backyard as well. Who's to say the owner wasn't just in the bathroom and that's why the dog was out? Perfectly plausible.

So, what do we do to protect our dogs? Put up signs? Beware of Dog? So the officer knows there is a dog? Always make sure the dog is not in the backyard? Again, the owner could have been just right inside the door!!!


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## JeanKBBMMMAAN

Unfortunately:


> The incident occurred about 2:30 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 23, on N. Orange Street when the family was not home.


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## selzer

It isn't against the law to leave your dog in your fenced yard. 

The police should have figured out some other method of securing the suspects possible location. 

I feel for the family. I prefer a dog to be in a kennel in a fenced yard, but if your dog is secure in your yard, the cops should not be able to come and kill him. 

I would be mad as ****. 

This isn't like peeling through someone's front yard. The dog is not going to grow back. 

No one was home, well they were probably at work and at school. And yes, the dog could have been struck by lightning, or poisoned or shot by people committing a crime against them and their dog. But to have the cops shoot the dog? 

If the cops were chasing the guy, foot race, and the guy went over the fence, and they went over the fence and got charged by the dog, and shot the dog, I could live with that. But it sounds like they were just closing in on a location where they thought he might be. They should have been able to do this without killing someone's dog.


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## LARHAGE

This is ridiculous , the last thing a person should have to worry about is the police using your yard as a shortcut and shooting your dog, that a-hole should have chose another yard, a person has a right to have their dog contained in their back yard, and for those saying it shouldn't have been outside, well what's to say if that jerk thought the "killer" was in the house and came in your house and shot your dog, don't you think that brainiac should have reasoned if the dog was not going to let him in the yard that it would let the killer? It's not like they were in a fleeing scenario!!!


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## x0emiroxy0x

Perfect example of why you don't leave your aggressive dog in your backyard. Meter men can come unexpectedly. My mom's house has the meter for the whole neighborhood and they don't have to let you know when they are coming. Or little kids could run in your backyard. A dog should know a threat (going towards the backdoor) from someone running through the backyard....a kid could run through the backyard to grab a ball. 

Last week I had Rocky at my dad's house with his golden retriever and mutt. The GR and mutt let the meter men and lawn men in the backyard because they are peaceful. A kid hopped the fence to get his ball and had three dogs licking his face and wagging their tails.

Last night someone tried to break into my dad's house and sneak through the backyard and my dad's GR went nuts (he was inside). My dad let him out and my dad saw him chase the wannabe thief to the fence and bark at him as he went over it.

Smart dogs don't attack innocent people.

If you have a idiot dog or aggressive dog or fearful dog, kennel it inside.


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## x0emiroxy0x

Dogs are not more important than human lives. I'd rather have my aggressive dog shot while police chase a murderer than have a murderer loose in a neighborhood where my kids live.


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## llombardo

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Dogs are not more important than human lives. I'd rather have my aggressive dog shot while police chase a murderer than have a murderer loose in a neighborhood where my kids live.


The *reality* is that murderers and sex offenders are loose in everyone's neighborhood everyday....not one time was it mentioned that this dog was aggressive, but maybe that is some people's answer for everything, while a family just lost their family pet due to ignorance.


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## llombardo

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Perfect example of why you don't leave your aggressive dog in your backyard. Meter men can come unexpectedly. My mom's house has the meter for the whole neighborhood and they don't have to let you know when they are coming. Or little kids could run in your backyard. A dog should know a threat (going towards the backdoor) from someone running through the backyard....a kid could run through the backyard to grab a ball.
> 
> Last week I had Rocky at my dad's house with his golden retriever and mutt. The GR and mutt let the meter men and lawn men in the backyard because they are peaceful. A kid hopped the fence to get his ball and had three dogs licking his face and wagging their tails.
> 
> Last night someone tried to break into my dad's house and sneak through the backyard and my dad's GR went nuts (he was inside). My dad let him out and my dad saw him chase the wannabe thief to the fence and bark at him as he went over it.
> 
> Smart dogs don't attack innocent people.
> 
> If you have a idiot dog or aggressive dog or fearful dog, kennel it inside.



It is not reasonable to think that dogs will allow strangers and/or kids in their yards. It is not smart to allow this no matter how friendly a person thinks their dogs are. It only takes one bite to do damage on both ends. Most dogs will defend their territories because that is what they do. It has nothing to do with aggression, that is their home.


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## Wolfgeist

Twyla said:


> Not pointing fingers or taking sides on this case.
> 
> This is an example of why, if you live anywhere there are homes close together especially, that you don't leave your dog outside when you aren't home. The exception being the dog is in a good kennel.



In other words..........



Lock your dog in a crate, but even then it's not completely safe! Anyone can shoot your dog if they choose, and there's nothing you can do about it! Yay!


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## Twyla

Wild Wolf said:


> In other words..........
> 
> 
> 
> Lock your dog in a crate, but even then it's not completely safe! Anyone can shoot your dog if they choose, and there's nothing you can do about it! Yay!


Interesting take on what was said. 

It's always educational to learn the mindset on threads such as these


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## Wolfgeist

Twyla said:


> Interesting take on what was said.
> 
> It's always educational to learn the mindset on threads such as these


Should mention I didn't mean that directed at the poster... just agree very much with her point. Your dog isn't safe because anyone can shoot it for whatever reason and there is nothing you can do.


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## PatchonGSD

llombardo said:


> The *reality* is that murderers and sex offenders are loose in everyone's neighborhood everyday....not one time was it mentioned that this dog was aggressive, but maybe that is some people's answer for everything, while a family just lost their family pet due to ignorance.


:thumbup:


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## Mrs.K

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Dogs are not more important than human lives. I'd rather have my aggressive dog shot while police chase a murderer than have a murderer loose in a neighborhood where my kids live.




Sorry but that aggressive part irks me. It irks me a lot. 

What is it with you and aggressive dogs. 

Seriously, you might as well lock every single dog up in a crate and never ever let them out. 

Mine have access to the backyard and the house at all times. We have a big privacy fenced in yard. They wouldn't be safer in an outdoor kennel as they are in that privacy fenced in yard and it takes quite some effort to get over that fence plus there are properties on the left and right that have no fence at all. Somebody can run by our property without crossing through the yard and get into the swamp behind. 

It would have to be a real genius to cross through the yard instead of going around it without that kind of an obstacle. The reason we chose this house is because of the privacy fence and if I can't have my dogs in that yard I might as well not have a yard at all. It's OUR PROPERTY, WE BOUGHT IT, it's OUR DOGS HOME! 
If you can't have YOUR DOGS on YOUR PROPERTY because you have to fear that the police shoots them, than there is something seriously wrong with this country!


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## x0emiroxy0x

Mrs.K said:


> Sorry but that aggressive part irks me. It irks me a lot.
> 
> What is it with you and aggressive dogs.
> 
> Seriously, you might as well lock every single dog up in a crate and never ever let them out.



Not sure why the word aggressive irks you? If I had an aggressive dog I would not leave it in a backyard where a neighborhood kid could climb the fence and get mauled.

If I had a backyard at all, I would never leave any dog of mine in it unsupervised. 

If the cops jumped the fence into my dad's backyard, Freckles and Hercules would bark at them but would never charge at them. Hence, they would not be shot. Cops don't just shoot dogs standing in their backyards for the heck of it. They shoot dogs that try to attack them. 

There is nothing "with me and aggressive dogs". I'm just tired of people flaming the police for doing their job. Dogs are not worth human lives.


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## x0emiroxy0x

If you put a heavy lock on your fence gate then the cops wouldn't waste time trying to get it off and would probably go around. That is a good idea.


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## katdog5911

I don't usually comment on these types of situations but just had to put my two cents in this time....
I have a big black 9 year old newfie mix. He is NOT aggressive towards humans at all. But if someone comes in my yard he will bark and run at the person. He looks pretty intimidating and most people would probably get a bit nervous. But when he gets to the human he will just look for a ball for them to throw! Would he have been shot by this cop? Would that have been ok? 
I have delivery people, meter people etc come to my home too. Some take the time to get to know the dog and toss a ball around, others won't drive up the driveway or get out of the car. Their choice. No one should be in my yard without my permission. Of course, if I had a truly HA animal I would not leave him anywhere unattended. 
Not sure about the law on this but I don't think police should be able to just do what they want on my property. What if it had been a kid running at the cop? Would he have been shot? That has been known to happen unfortunately. 
In this case I think the cop was way out of line.


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## x0emiroxy0x

I'm pretty sure the cops don't shoot children running at them.........Honestly don't know how to even respond to that claim lol The rest of your post is a valid point though.


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## katdog5911

Actually cops have shot children and innocent people coming at them. Not very often thankfully. I realize that they are in a lot of tense crazy situations but shooting should not be a first response. And they have no business on my private property unless there is something going down on it. And even then I believe they need a search warrant to enter my home. I know police need to be able to do their job but that is why there are warrants etc.....I do not want to live in a police state where they can do whatever they want.


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## robinhuerta

_Just my 2 cents...._
I have very close friends that are LEO....and a few dogs that are also LEOs'.
ALL dogs bark....so barking will never equal the conclusion of being aggressive.

People who have **private property w/proper, private fencing* should not have to worry about their dogs becoming the victims of other people's misjudgements or mistakes, while being properly, contained within their property.*
There is NO justification in such things happening.....at best...it would be a tragic mistake.

HAVING SAID THAT:  I also believe that human life is above an animal's.....as hard as it can be on the loving, owner of the animal.
Although there are many humans, who's life would be best *ended* for the safety of all living creatures_.....that is completely a different topic._

Our LEO's face obstacles and life threatening scenarios through out their careers....and many times, it is just them between us and the hostiles....so I give the respect that they deserve.......but they too, are not above making mistakes....and should be held accountable when they make one.

....clearly...shooting a person's dog for no other reason than "barking", in it's legally, confined, private premises......should not be an acceptable & over looked solution........JMO...nothing more.


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## Mrs.K

robinhuerta said:


> _Just my 2 cents...._
> I have very close friends that are LEO....and a few dogs that are also LEOs'.
> ALL dogs bark....so barking will never equal the conclusion of being aggressive.
> 
> People who have **private property w/proper, private fencing* should not have to worry about their dogs becoming the victims of other people's misjudgements or mistakes, while being properly, contained within their property.*
> There is NO justification in such things happening.....at best...it would be a tragic mistake.
> 
> HAVING SAID THAT:  I also believe that human life is above an animal's.....as hard as it can be on the loving, owner of the animal.
> Although there are many humans, who's life would be best *ended* for the safety of all living creatures_.....that is completely a different topic._
> 
> Our LEO's face obstacles and life threatening scenarios through out their careers....and many times, it is just them between us and the hostiles....so I give the respect that they deserve.......but they too, are not above making mistakes....and should be held accountable when they make one.
> 
> ....clearly...shooting a person's dog for no other reason than "barking", in it's legally, confined, private premises......should not be an acceptable & over looked solution........JMO...nothing more.


could have not said it any better!!! :thumbup:


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## mycobraracr

robinhuerta said:


> _Just my 2 cents...._
> I have very close friends that are LEO....and a few dogs that are also LEOs'.
> ALL dogs bark....so barking will never equal the conclusion of being aggressive.
> 
> People who have **private property w/proper, private fencing* should not have to worry about their dogs becoming the victims of other people's misjudgements or mistakes, while being properly, contained within their property.*
> There is NO justification in such things happening.....at best...it would be a tragic mistake.
> 
> HAVING SAID THAT: I also believe that human life is above an animal's.....as hard as it can be on the loving, owner of the animal.
> Although there are many humans, who's life would be best *ended* for the safety of all living creatures_.....that is completely a different topic._
> 
> Our LEO's face obstacles and life threatening scenarios through out their careers....and many times, it is just them between us and the hostiles....so I give the respect that they deserve.......but they too, are not above making mistakes....and should be held accountable when they make one.
> 
> ....clearly...shooting a person's dog for no other reason than "barking", in it's legally, confined, private premises......should not be an acceptable & over looked solution........JMO...nothing more.


Well said!


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## LARHAGE

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Perfect example of why you don't leave your aggressive dog in your backyard. Meter men can come unexpectedly. My mom's house has the meter for the whole neighborhood and they don't have to let you know when they are coming. Or little kids could run in your backyard. A dog should know a threat (going towards the backdoor) from someone running through the backyard....a kid could run through the backyard to grab a ball.
> 
> Last week I had Rocky at my dad's house with his golden retriever and mutt. The GR and mutt let the meter men and lawn men in the backyard because they are peaceful. A kid hopped the fence to get his ball and had three dogs licking his face and wagging their tails.
> 
> Last night someone tried to break into my dad's house and sneak through the backyard and my dad's GR went nuts (he was inside). My dad let him out and my dad saw him chase the wannabe thief to the fence and bark at him as he went over it.
> 
> Smart dogs don't attack innocent people.
> 
> If you have a idiot dog or aggressive dog or fearful dog, kennel it inside.


 
That dog was neither, he was a NORMAL dog barking at an intruder!!! I have the friendliest JRT in the world, but guess what? If some stranger came in my yard he would run up and bark, he isn't a dangerous aggressive dog and he has a right to be in my yard, he shouldn't have to be caged like a wild animal in the house because of some stupid trigger happy cop breaking into my dam yard!!!!!!!!!


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## LARHAGE

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Dogs are not more important than human lives. I'd rather have my aggressive dog shot while police chase a murderer than have a murderer loose in a neighborhood where my kids live.


 
And where exactly was this dangerous murderer ? He sure as **** was not in this poor dogs yard !!!!!!


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## x0emiroxy0x

He ran through it and the cops were chasing him.


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## x0emiroxy0x

LARHAGE said:


> That dog was neither, he was a NORMAL dog barking at an intruder!!! I have the friendliest JRT in the world, but guess what? If some stranger came in my yard he would run up and bark, he isn't a dangerous aggressive dog and he has a right to be in my yard, he shouldn't have to be caged like a wild animal in the house because of some stupid trigger happy cop breaking into my dam yard!!!!!!!!!



It's a big difference when a pitbull is coming at you vs a jack russel terrier....

*"Stupid trigger happy cop". *

My boyfriend went to college for four years, graduated with a 3.5 and has been in the academy for a month. During this time he goes to class from 6am to 6pm then goes home and studies until 10 or 11. On weekends I am no longer able to see him unless I drive to Dallas because he studies 8-10 hours a day. They have a test every Monday. If you get below a 75 twice, you are kicked out. It ends up being 16 tests and a comprehensive final that you must get 75 or higher on.

Not my definition of stupid.

Wrong decision? Perhaps. Stupid Cop? No. 

My boyfriend loves Rocky and dogs in general as much as I do. However, if one ever tried to attack him while he was trying to do his job, he better shoot it.


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## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Perfect example of why you don't leave your aggressive dog in your backyard. Meter men can come unexpectedly. My mom's house has the meter for the whole neighborhood and they don't have to let you know when they are coming. Or little kids could run in your backyard. A dog should know a threat (going towards the backdoor) from someone running through the backyard....a kid could run through the backyard to grab a ball.
> 
> Last week I had Rocky at my dad's house with his golden retriever and mutt. The GR and mutt let the meter men and lawn men in the backyard because they are peaceful. A kid hopped the fence to get his ball and had three dogs licking his face and wagging their tails.
> 
> Last night someone tried to break into my dad's house and sneak through the backyard and my dad's GR went nuts (he was inside). My dad let him out and my dad saw him chase the wannabe thief to the fence and bark at him as he went over it.
> 
> Smart dogs don't attack innocent people.
> 
> If you have a idiot dog or aggressive dog or fearful dog, kennel it inside.


My meter is in my front yard, not within my fenced back yard. Do we know whether or not there was a meter within this person's fenced yard?

Frankly, I don't care if the dog was chewing the officer's leg right off, he should not have gone into a fenced yard that was not associated with the criminal being sought (not chased), without at least some better method of managing a FAMILY MEMBER than shooting it. 

If a kid hop's my securely fenced back yard and gets themselves, bitten, mauled, or even killed, it would be the kid's fault, sorry. Parents need to control their children and keep them out of securely fenced back yards that do not belong to them. If a two year old can manage to get into your back yard, it is not securely fenced. Of course my yard (whatever type of dog I have) is not as dangerous as the ravine and river just behind it that is not fenced off at all. Parents need to supervise their children and keep them away from potentially dangerous areas.

The cops here made a huge mistake. Whoever gave the order, or made the decision to go over a fence into that yard should be seriously disciplined, and the government in charge of the police should pay somewhere in the area of 100k to compensate the owners for their lost pet. A pet is more than property, it is living and breathing and feels pain and its death causes terrible feelings of loss, depression, grief. 

As for keeping an aggressive dog in a yard, well if the dog had gotten out of the yard, and gotten killed, my attitude would be totally different -- yard not secure, and dog is dangerous. Killing the dog inside the yard, well, that makes me want to throw rotted vegetables and eggs at the perpetrator as he is stuck in the stocks. 

If a criminal or an ordinary citizen chose to climb over your fence and cut through your yard, and your dog charged them, and they felt their life in danger and shot and killed your dog, would you be angry? Where would your sympathy be if this was not a police officer? 

My feeling on that question is that if a bad person wants to rob your home or hurt your dog, they will do so. And if you come home to your dog having been killed, it will be a terrible thing. But there will be a bad guy to blame for hit, pure and simple. And there is one to blame for this dog's death too, only he works for the police department.


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## x0emiroxy0x

Selzer,

I guess I mixed up two different new stories. I thought the cop was chasing, not seeking.

I do think this was a wrong decision....but if a pitbull was about to attack you and you didn't have a chance to get back out of the yard before being mauled, would you defend yourself or allow it to kill you because you made a bad decision going in the yard in the first place?


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## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> He ran through it and the cops were chasing him.


Where are you getting that information from:

Here is a quote from the article in the OP:
Home > Local News > Riverside County > Riverside  > Riverside Headlines 
August 24, 2012 05:46 PM PDT August 24, 2012 06:49 PM PDT RIVERSIDE: Family upset that police killed their dog 

A Riverside family is upset that a police officer shot their pit bull to death as officers set up a perimeter in hopes of catching a murder suspect.

The incident occurred about 2:30 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 23, on N. Orange Street when the family was not home. 

Sharon Gonzalez, whose daughter Lindsey owned the 9-year-old pit bull named Brad, said an officer told them that the dog was shot through a gate because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house.

“His only crime was barking and protecting his property,” Gonzalez said. “That’s why you get a dog.”


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## x0emiroxy0x

Selzer, I was reading a post on pedigree database on another tab, where another cop was attacked by someone's pitbull, but it was in the front yard and he was chasing a suspect. Mixed up the two.


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## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Selzer,
> 
> I guess I mixed up two different new stories. I thought the cop was chasing, not seeking.
> 
> I do think this was a wrong decision....but if a pitbull was about to attack you and you didn't have a chance to get back out of the yard before being mauled, would you defend yourself or allow it to kill you because you made a bad decision going in the yard in the first place?


It sounds like they were not even in the yard. 

I don't go over people's fences and get myself into such situations. I also do not carry a gun, so I wouldn't be able to shoot the dog. So I guess I would have to figure something else out to get the job done.


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## x0emiroxy0x

selzer said:


> Where are you getting that information from:
> 
> 
> an officer told them that the dog was shot through a gate because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house.


I apologize and take back everything I have said about being attacked and defending oneself. If you read the post on PD, come back here and read my reply again because it fits the other thread. My bad.

I wonder if this is the whole story. You think he would be fired for doing something like that.


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## x0emiroxy0x

selzer said:


> It sounds like they were not even in the yard.
> 
> I don't go over people's fences and get myself into such situations. I also do not carry a gun, so I wouldn't be able to shoot the dog. So I guess I would have to figure something else out to get the job done.



http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/189521-opinions-about-behavior-video-5.html

You can hiss at them, as carmspack advises lol


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## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Selzer, I was reading a post on pedigree database on another tab, where another cop was attacked by someone's pitbull, but it was in the front yard and he was chasing a suspect. Mixed up the two.


If a cop is chasing a murder suspect (could see him), and goes over a fence after him in pursuit, and a dog attacks him, it is really sad, it would be tragic, but the cop would be in his rights I think to shoot the dog and continue after the suspect.

When my dad was a boy, if the cops ordered you to stop, and you ran, they could shoot you. They did not have to chase you down if you ran. And you know what, people were smart enough not to run from the cops. Maybe, we should just let the cops go ahead and shoot criminals who are running from them, instead of endangering a lot more people by letting them run, needing to chase, and possibly not catching them, or subjecting a lot more people to them along the way.


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## LARHAGE

selzer said:


> It sounds like they were not even in the yard.
> 
> I don't go over people's fences and get myself into such situations. I also do not carry a gun, so I wouldn't be able to shoot the dog. So I guess I would have to figure something else out to get the job done.



That's the part that makes me mad, all of us "civilians " have to use our head in dire situations, we don't have a license to just pull out a gun and blast away, I don't give a crap who in my family or if my boyfriend is a cop, that doesn't make them any better than anyone of us, no one made them choose this profession and it certainly doesn't mean they have a built in excuse to be a trigger happy a-hole, this situation was pure pathetic and I hope that cop pushes pencils for the rest of his career, he's trigger happy and a menace to society, far more than that 9 year old dog was, I hope they stick it to him.


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## Mrs.K

LARHAGE said:


> That's the part that makes me mad, all of us "civilians " have to use our head in dire situations, we don't have a license to just pull out a gun and blast away, I don't give a crap who in my family or if my boyfriend is a cop, that doesn't make them any better than anyone of us, no one made them choose this profession and it certainly doesn't mean they have a built in excuse to be a trigger happy a-hole, this situation was pure pathetic and I hope that cop pushes pencils for the rest of his career, he's trigger happy and a menace to society, far more than that 9 year old dog was, I hope they stick it to him.


Agreed, yet again. It makes me mad too. There your dogs are, happy go lucky, in their own home. You are out, maybe grocery shopping or at work, come back home and your dogs are dead because the cops felt the need to shoot your dogs without even going through the yard. WTF? :help:


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## llombardo

selzer said:


> If a cop is chasing a murder suspect (could see him), and goes over a fence after him in pursuit, and a dog attacks him


If this happened in this case, the bad guy would probably be behind bars and the dog would be a hero, not dead.


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## llombardo

There must be something in the air

Police shoot, kill dog while chasing suspect | KWGN.com – Denver, Colorado News & Weather from KWGN-TV Colorado's Own CW Channel 2


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## DTS

I have a noob question. As far as the dog knowing a threat from a non threat in this case, the officer was looking for the suspect so he was on high alert and letting off some adrenaline and other vibes. He wouldn't go in the backyard with the dog all calm and happy because the suspect could have been in there. How is the dog supposed to know that the officer is a good guy? 
My dog is fearful and barks at people sometimes, more so when people come over she doesnt know. I don't have a yard but this draws up for me all kinds of ideas.. What if the police need to come in my home when I'm not there. Y dog is loose, she will bark and goes towards someone and thus most likely will be shot.. Am I supposed to kennel my dog at all tomes just in case? We have window signs saying "warning area patrolled by German shepherd security... <--- this is an over exaggeration but it is possible.. For these situations what is someone supposed to do with a fearful dog in this situation. If a person was in the yard at the time, do u feel the officer would stop and ask for me to control my dog or not. Just honest questions


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## Gharrissc

It must be






llombardo said:


> There must be something in the air
> 
> Police shoot, kill dog while chasing suspect | KWGN.com – Denver, Colorado News & Weather from KWGN-TV Colorado's Own CW Channel 2


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## llombardo

DTS said:


> I have a noob question. As far as the dog knowing a threat from a non threat in this case, the officer was looking for the suspect so he was on high alert and letting off some adrenaline and other vibes. He wouldn't go in the backyard with the dog all calm and happy because the suspect could have been in there. How is the dog supposed to know that the officer is a good guy?
> My dog is fearful and barks at people sometimes, more so when people come over she doesnt know. I don't have a yard but this draws up for me all kinds of ideas.. What if the police need to come in my home when I'm not there. Y dog is loose, she will bark and goes towards someone and thus most likely will be shot.. Am I supposed to kennel my dog at all tomes just in case? We have window signs saying "warning area patrolled by German shepherd security... <--- this is an over exaggeration but it is possible.. For these situations what is someone supposed to do with a fearful dog in this situation. If a person was in the yard at the time, do u feel the officer would stop and ask for me to control my dog or not. Just honest questions


Years ago I had a conversation with a local police officer where I lived. I asked what would happen if the police had to enter my home and the dogs were there....he looked at me and said shoot them. Was he kidding?, I don't think so and I'm glad I never had to find out.


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## x0emiroxy0x

“….a large pit bull started to run toward the officers from a nearby residence. The dog charged one of the officers and began to leap at one of the officers. To protect himself from the attack as the dog’s mouth was open while charging, the officer fired one round and struck the animal.”

Yes there is something in the air but it is nothing new...pitbulls attacking people. That is three pits attacking cops in the news in the last two weeks....(and ONE innocent pit standing in its yard).


Here is what a witness says:

"“He wasn’t running, he wasn’t growling, he wasn’t barking. He was not lunging,” says a witness who saw the shooting."


*Does the general public really believe these quotes from anonymous sources that the dogs were standing/laying down innocently and the cop randomly ran by and shot the dog?* Do you know how much paperwork they have to fill out for that? Even if they wanted to go and shoot a ton of dogs, they would never have the time because there would be so much paperwork to go through.


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## Mrs.K

llombardo said:


> Years ago I had a conversation with a local police officer where I lived. I asked what would happen if the police had to enter my home and the dogs were there....he looked at me and said shoot them. Was he kidding?, I don't think so and I'm glad I never had to find out.


Two days ago I slipped in the shower and threw my back out. That was around 1530. 
At first I was okay, but then, they later it got, they more in pain I was, to the point where I couldn't walk without assistance anymore. The dogs were out, frontdoors locked, the only door that was open was to the backyard. 

I knew I had to call an ambulance and had to go to the hospital but first I called my friends because of the dogs. If EMS would come and the dogs would bark at them, they wouldn't enter the house and call the police. 

So I called abbyk9. All my dogs know her. She entered the house through the backyard and took my vital signs. After that I called 911 requesting an ambulance. 

Now my dogs are used to be around EMS people. What got me worried was strangers knocking at the door, only to find that the door is locked and the dogs going into a barking frenzy at the door, with me not being able to get up. They would have called the cops and I don't know if me yelling "It's okay, you can come in, they won't do anything." would have made them feel any better because how many times have they heard that before and gotten bit because they believed it? 

I know they wouldn't have done anything because we've had EMS people in the house (back in Germany) before and they were laying in a down while multiple MP's, multiple firefighters and EMS people were standing and running around in our apartment, getting me out through the window because I was laying on the floor unable to get up. 

Over here I did not want to take the chance of ending up in the newspaper with the headline "SAR dog charged officer, officer shot dog." because I know for a fact they wouldn't have charged but I also know that the police doesn't take any chances and I won't take them either. 

I guess I'm just glad I have such good friends that they don't think twice to hop in the car an drive out here in the middle of the night so the dogs are safe. Since they were locked up the police wasn't getting involved but if they had been out and nobody had come and they had barked at the door, EMS wouldn't have entered and the cops would have been called and I don't even want to think of how they would have entered the house. 

Kind of sad when you have to take those kind of pre-cautions because you never know what kind of cop you get. :help:


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## x0emiroxy0x

100% true. I am so glad you had that kind of friend to call! Perhaps if you ever didn't have an available friend, you could request a cop with canine experience/k9 officer? That would increase chances of a better outcome.

Unfortunately, you have to think of it from both sides---how many pits a week attack officers trying to help people in their houses? How many large dogs attack? The police don't call the newstation every time they get attacked so the general public has no idea. Cops already risk their lives in so many other ways.....should they not be able to defend themselves from an aggressive dog? You may know that your dogs won't bite, but 90% of the dogs that attack officers are "nice" according to their owners, right before they lunge.

PS>>>How are you doing??? You never mentioned that!


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## Mrs.K

x0emiroxy0x said:


> 100% true. I am so glad you had that kind of friend to call! Perhaps if you ever didn't have an available friend, you could request a cop with canine experience/k9 officer? That would increase chances of a better outcome.
> 
> Unfortunately, you have to think of it from both sides---how many pits a week attack officers trying to help people in their houses? How many large dogs attack? The police don't call the newstation every time they get attacked so the general public has no idea. Cops already risk their lives in so many other ways.....should they not be able to defend themselves from an aggressive dog? You may know that your dogs won't bite, but 90% of the dogs that attack officers are "nice" according to their owners, right before they lunge.
> 
> PS>>>How are you doing??? You never mentioned that!


But think about it. If you would read that kind of headline "3 GSD's attacked Police Officer, Officers shot the dogs" would you believe that a witness who saw the whole ordeal and said "No, they did not charge the police." or would you say "Come on, we know how GSD's can be, they protected their owner and did charge the cop, the cop had no choice."

I know I've been guilty of it myself but we can't judge. Just because it's a pit bull doesn't mean that the dog automatically charges the officer. 
Three dogs have been shot within a short amount of time, one dog was confined in his yard and the cops didn't even enter the yard and shot the dog just because it was barking. 
That could be our dogs, that are behind a fence, barking. It could be your dog, my dogs, anyone elses dogs because GSD's are known to be territorial as well. So would you want a cop to shoot your dog just because it's behind a fence barking? 

That's not right. 

I'm doing a bit better. AbbyK9 spent 8 hours with me in the emergency room before we got treatment. I can walk with pain killers. It'll take two or three more days before I'm fully functioning again.


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## x0emiroxy0x

The officer who shot the dog behind the fence was definitely out of control. But the other one where the pit was off leash in the front yard and charged the officer, what choice did he have?

The job of the police is to serve and protect...humans. They don't have time to waste trying to catch aggressive dogs on poles with ropes at the end so they can get to the hurt human or catch the bad guy. :/ You did the right thing calling your friend, because people will assume a german shepherd will protect its owner.

I guess a good thing to teach would be "kennel" where the dog will go in and NOT come out no matter who comes in the house. Rocky has a solid kennel and when people come over, he goes in there and the door stays open but he does not come out. I am slowly training him to go straight to kennel when the doorbell rings too.


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## x0emiroxy0x

We obviously have different viewpoints and neither of ours is going to change  But I do respect your viewpoint and mine was the same before I was dating a police officer and having to pray that he comes home alive every night and is not killed by a gangster, drunk driver, or heaven forbid--a dog.


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## Mrs.K

Yes, but how do you know if the dog charged or didn't charge? There are witnesses who say the dog stayed in his yard. Let's say it's your dog in the frontyard. The dog gets up and barks but doesn't move from his spot and the Officer shoots your dog because it "charged him". 

How would you feel and think about that? Was it necessary to shoot the dog just because it barked?


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## x0emiroxy0x

Do you really believe an officer chasing a suspect heard a bark, stopped running, turned to find where the bark came from, then ran up to a pitbull laying on the porch and shot it in the head?

The "witness" said the dog did not bark or make any noise.

So do you believe the officer was chasing a suspect, saw a pitbull out of the corner of his eye laying innocently on a porch, stopped his pursuit, then ran up to the porch and shot the innocent little dog?

It is not believing this person or that person. It is common sense.


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## 3ToesTonyismydog

It's always sad when this happens. In the town of Everett, which is north of Seattle if a pit bull is found running lose they put them down. Right then and there, no questions asked. Sad but true and the reason for it is all the trouble the town has had with the dogs owners. A large group of jerks were breeding a large amount of pits for fighting. Many were escaping into the community and terrorizing the locals, including biting children and old people. A pack of 3 pits even killed an old women. They are banned from dog parks in the town because of all the attacks on other dogs. Even today they have problems with the breed here. 

5 people bitten by 2 dogs in 'chomping spree' | HeraldNet.com - Local news

I was surprised that one of these dogs was a boxer. My parents had boxers and they were really cool dogs.


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## x0emiroxy0x

That is so sad for those poor dogs  When my dad grew up, pit bulls were "family" dogs...now they've been bred into something else completely. :/


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## llombardo

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Do you really believe an officer chasing a suspect heard a bark, stopped running, turned to find where the bark came from, then ran up to a pitbull laying on the porch and shot it in the head?
> 
> The "witness" said the dog did not bark or make any noise.
> 
> So do you believe the officer was chasing a suspect, saw a pitbull out of the corner of his eye laying innocently on a porch, stopped his pursuit, then ran up to the porch and shot the innocent little dog?
> 
> It is not believing this person or that person. It is common sense.


Read the story again...the suspect was already in custody when the dog was shot. There was more then one witness who said the same thing. Do you believe a cop won't lie to cover his butt? Think again.


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## x0emiroxy0x

Wow. You really hate the police for some reason. What a generalized, ignorant statement.

Cops don't walk around shooting dogs that are laying on the porch silently....sorry, that doesn't happen. They wouldn't risk their job over a dog.


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## Beau

This thread really got me thinking about my dogs and what would happen if I needed emergency or police services.

I called my neighbor, who is the Sheriff of the county I live in and asked him how his department is trained to respond in all of the situations we've read about recently. Specifically, I asked about how they would respond if I needed EMS at my home.

His response: "If the dog appears agitated in any way, we are trained to shoot it".

I said: Define "agitated."

His response: "Barking, growling, or appearing to threaten. Even if its not barking or growling, if it appears threatening, we will shoot it. Protection of our officers and EMS personnel conducting their duties is our paramount objective."

Me: "So you'd shoot my dog, whom you know; has played with you, your children and your dogs; who sat in your lap during last years Christmas parade, you'd shoot that dog if you came on MY property chasing a suspect and he barked at you?"

Him: "Yes. It sucks I know, and I'd feel horrible about it, if it came to that. But the protocol is the protocol."

To say I'm stunned would be an understatement......


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## x0emiroxy0x

Read the story again...same "anonymous" witness said both quotes.

What sensationalist writer wouldn't make up an anonymous witness to create a dramatic story?


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## x0emiroxy0x

If you don't want to risk your dogs being shot then don't call the EMS/cops. Your choice is to lay there and die OR call a relative to get you OR call the police and ask for those "stupid, trigger-happy" jerks to save your life. 

Wait...what? They are trying to save people? I thought they ran around all day shooting dogs for the fun of it.


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## x0emiroxy0x

Beau said:


> This thread really got me thinking about my dogs and what would happen if I needed emergency or police services.
> 
> I called my neighbor, who is the Sheriff of the county I live in and asked him how his department is trained to respond in all of the situations we've read about recently. Specifically, I asked about how they would respond if I needed EMS at my home.
> 
> His response: "If the dog appears agitated in any way, we are trained to shoot it".
> 
> I said: Define "agitated."
> 
> His response: "Barking, growling, or appearing to threaten. Even if its not barking or growling, if it appears threatening, we will shoot it. Protection of our officers and EMS personnel conducting their duties is our paramount objective."
> 
> Me: "So you'd shoot my dog, whom you know; has played with you, your children and your dogs; who sat in your lap during last years Christmas parade, you'd shoot that dog if you came on MY property chasing a suspect and he barked at you?"
> 
> Him: "Yes. It sucks I know, and I'd feel horrible about it, if it came to that. But the protocol is the protocol."
> 
> To say I'm stunned would be an understatement......


If your dog is threatening the life of a police officer that is trying to save your life, the cop has two choices : 1. kill the dog and save you 2. leave you and the dog and you die.

Don't call them in the first place if your dog is going to threaten them and is not put up.


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## narako9

" an officer told them that the dog was* shot through a gate* because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house. "
There was no mention in that article that the dog was an aggressive dog, just because your dog barks at strangers coming into your home when you're not next to the dog it doesn't make the dog aggressive. mine is very friendly and if i'm around she doesn't make a sound, but if i'm not around and a stranger around the front door or looking into the yard she would bark, and I would think that's actually a good thing. 
Now am I reading this correctly?? he shot him from the other side of the gate???


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## dbrk9

I haven't read all of the posts...but was just wondering if the dog was a lab or another breed other than a pittbull if it would have been shot. Also, I know they were looking for a murder suspect and they needed access but I don't think the murder suspect would be hanging around a pittbull , just saying, and a protective barking one at that! 

I think it is really poor judgement to shoot a dog who is in it's fenced yard doing it's job. I think the officer was caught up in the moment and his adrenaline took over and the pittbull didn't stand a chance. 

Sad.


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## narako9

Another thing, I get that they needed access but it said that the suspect was two doors down, so how about they just go next door and hope the fence there instead of killing this dog, they're gonna have to go through the next house anyways.


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## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Wow. You really hate the police for some reason. What a generalized, ignorant statement.
> 
> Cops don't walk around shooting dogs that are laying on the porch silently....sorry, that doesn't happen. They wouldn't risk their job over a dog.


Uhm, yeah well, your statement is a bit generalized too. There are good cops, there are cops that wouldn't risk their jobs over a dog, and there are cops that know they probably won't get fired for shooting a dog. 

There was one in our county a few years back. He went to an address in a trailer park, and the dog was chained in the front yard. It was a pit bull. He shot it and killed it. The children in the trailer watched through the window him shooting their dog. 

He went to the wrong address. 

He then went and got some cutters out of his trunk and cut the chain. 

At first he said that the dog charged him and the chain was broken. 

But when he realized there were enough adult witnesses, he changed his tune to say it was no life for a dog to be chained out in the front yard with no food or water. 

He was fired and good riddance. 

But starting a statement "cops don't" is generalizing and we all do it some times.


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## x0emiroxy0x

narako9 said:


> " an officer told them that the dog was* shot through a gate* because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house. "
> There was no mention in that article that the dog was an aggressive dog, just because your dog barks at strangers coming into your home when you're not next to the dog it doesn't make the dog aggressive. mine is very friendly and if i'm around she doesn't make a sound, but if i'm not around and a stranger around the front door or looking into the yard she would bark, and I would think that's actually a good thing.
> Now am I reading this correctly?? he shot him from the other side of the gate???


No, we are not talking about this story. We are talking about the story from page 4 or 5.


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## x0emiroxy0x

narako9 said:


> Another thing, I get that they needed access but it said that the suspect was two doors down, so how about they just go next door and hope the fence there instead of killing this dog, they're gonna have to go through the next house anyways.


Simple. They were setting a perimeter. Shouldn't have killed the dog, but setting a perimeter is standard procedure and going into a private home or backyard is 100% allowed by the law when a suspect is being sought.

Look up fresh pursuit law.


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## Beau

I think my issue with all of this is the definitions of "aggressive, aggression, agitation etc.". 

Does a dog barking automatically identify it as "aggressive" or "agitated"?


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## katdog5911

I was in a situation not too long ago where I may have needed to call an ambulance. My first thought was what to do with my dogs.... Neither are human aggressive but certainly will bark! I was ready to lay myself out on the stoop and wait there if I had to call for help. 
In general, I don't have any particular bias for or against cops. There are a-hole cops just as there are a-hole regular citizens. I do not live in a delusional world where the cops are always the good guys. I believed that as a child, but then again, I also believed in the tooth fairy! There is corruption in every walk of life.....


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## selzer

The paramedics had to come to my parents' home when Dad had his gall bladder attack. I did not hear that Cujo was an idiot about it. 

The cops came to the house when the kids set off the alarm in the shop. There was about 28 people of all sizes in the house and Cujo stopped even barking at new entries. He just tagged along with the officer when he went to check the alarm. I wasn't nearly as worried about Cujo as my sister-in-law's daughter and boyfriend who were showing off their meth-teeth, "hey, wanna beer?" 

Cujo is a scary dog, particularly when he rushes to the door barking. He is seven. The idea of these cops killing a family pet, a nine year old dog, through a gate, that is heartbreaking. Those people cared for that dog, and loved that dog for nine years, just to have some cop shoot it dead through their gate.

On the other hand, in the paper today cops were called to a resident about two loose pitbulls who tore a cat apart on someone's porch. The 33 year old woman who owned the pitts, knew the dogs could climb over the fence and she left them in her yard anyway. And they had killed a cat the day before too. The dogs are banned in Ashtabula (where this happened), so she was fined and she signed the dogs over. It is one thing to leave your dog in the yard, it is a whole other ball game if you know the dogs can climb out of the yard. And people wonder why they ban the dogs. I feel like throwing rotten vegetables and eggs at her too.


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## ken k

how stupid is the cop, their trying to catch a murder suspect, so they fire shots at a barking dog, i`m sure that was a good alert for the criminal


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## KatsMuse

This has been overlooked by some posters?

[/B]Riverside police Lt. Guy Toussaint said that the officer was actually in the backyard, was charged by the dog and fired his gun to protect himself.[/B]

This link might help some of you understand the hot pursuit/ fresh pursuit stuff that allows police officers to enter properties and such in exigent circumstances.
Exigent circumstance in this case, IMO, is that a *murder suspect was being chased in a residential neighborhood.*...that's scary.:wild:

I saw in one of the comments under that news articles where they stated that police did catch the guy, BTW.

Fresh Pursuit Law & Legal Definition

Also, I hate that the boys pet was shot. I'm sure he loved it as we do all of our pets.

This thread is based on the story we read from the family's perspective, nothing on the police officer's. 

Sure there are good and bad EVERYTHING out there, all professions. And, we can read tons of stories about BAD DOGS as well.


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## x0emiroxy0x

ken k said:


> how stupid is the cop, their trying to catch a murder suspect, so they fire shots at a barking dog, i`m sure that was a good alert for the criminal


He may have made a bad decision shooting the dog behind the fence, but stupid? I know he had to have had better spelling and grammar than this post since they have to write essays in the academy and get points off for every grammatical error.

Uh-oh, it's the grammar police. Sorry, but if you are going to call someone else stupid you should make sure that your post doesn't make you look uneducated.


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## x0emiroxy0x

Thumbs up on Selzer's post. Always a pleasure to debate with you. You often change my POV with your posts, as they are never rude or overbearing---usually more fact-based.


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## Beau

x0emiroxy0x said:


> He may have made a bad decision shooting the dog behind the fence, but stupid? I know he had to have had better spelling and grammar than this post since they have to write essays in the academy and get points off for every grammatical error.
> 
> Uh-oh, it's the grammar police. Sorry, but if you are going to call someone else stupid you should make sure that your post doesn't make you look uneducated.


I recognize that this is a personal issue for you, but I think you need to take a step back and take a deep breath.

Everyone has an opinion on this issue, and we're not all going to agree. 

That's the beauty of message boards, we can express our opinions and thoughts and engage a meaningful discussion.

However, your last post was over the top and could be considered a personal attack. I think you owe Ken K an apology.


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## x0emiroxy0x

Anything can be considered a personal attack in this day and age. Asking someone to correct their grammar before they call someone else stupid? I see no attack in that. I never said Ken was uneducated---just that his post could cause someone to come to that conclusion.

This has nothing to do with the original topic anymore -- just people who hate police attacking them and I have no wish to argue anymore to defend the thousands of men and women that risk their lives for these careless people.


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## Beau

Almost any post postulated on a message board can make someone look stupid....whether good grammar is used or not.


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## Twyla

Back to the original article..

If anyone noticed; there are actually 2 different stories given about the dog being shot:

"Sharon Gonzalez, whose daughter Lindsey owned the 9-year-old pit bull named Brad, said an officer told them that the dog was shot through a gate because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house."

"Riverside police Lt. Guy Toussaint said that the officer was actually in the backyard, was charged by the dog and fired his gun to protect himself."

Regardless of which version is true, there is still a dead dog and broken hearted kid. And that isn't saying the cops are the bad guys, they are doing their job, which is putting their life on the line every day. Dogs are not their priority.

Just something to be aware of what can happen, no matter of the dog is of good temperament or aggressive.


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## selzer

I really don't see where an apology should be required. I abhor people calling others stupid so much that I figure if you are levying around that term, you are fair game.


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## KatsMuse

katdog5911 said:


> I was in a situation not too long ago where I may have needed to call an ambulance. My first thought was what to do with my dogs.... Neither are human aggressive but certainly will bark! I was ready to lay myself out on the stoop and wait there if I had to call for help.
> In general, I don't have any particular bias for or against cops. There are a-hole cops just as there are a-hole regular citizens. I do not live in a delusional world where the cops are always the good guys. I believed that as a child, but then again, I also believed in the tooth fairy! There is corruption in every walk of life.....


In our county, EMTs and First Responders always arrive on scene with police.
Reason being, most EMTs and FR's do not know WHAT the situation is and are not armed.

When my hubby went into cardiac arrest at home, I called 911, put the dogs in crates and treated him until they got there. 
My dogs were Adult GSDs and we're already in a panic with hubby down. The dogs were in a complete state of confusion.

With the chaos of hubby's condition, my anxiety, and knowing many people (strangers to my dog) with strange equipment would be rushing into the house, I knew the right thing was to put my dogs up. 

I love my dogs and (luckily) had the forethought to act quickly enough to prevent more chaos.


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## TrickyShepherd

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Anything can be considered a personal attack in this day and age. Asking someone to correct their grammar before they call someone else stupid? I see no attack in that. I never said Ken was uneducated---just that his post could cause someone to come to that conclusion.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the original topic anymore -- just people who hate police attacking them and I have no wish to argue anymore to defend the thousands of men and women that risk their lives for these careless people.


Thankfully this is not an english class. I understood their post just fine. They may have been using their phone. I know if I try to post on here from my phone it's incredibly hard to get a decent post in, which is why I avoid doing so. With that being said, I think you could have left out that snide remark. 

Second, in every post you claim the SAME thing... I never see anyone going after or being "haters" of LE. I have no idea where you get that idea in so many different threads. I don't care what profession someone has... they can make mistakes and do something stupid... or even something down right evil. Doctors, Engineers, Military, Police... etc. All are educated, but we are human. ALSO, not EVERYONE in every profession is a saint out to "be the best they can be", "Protect and serve"... and so on. Just like everything on this earth, there is good and there is bad. I know some cops here that are complete butt heads. Honestly.... they just love the power. Once they clock out, they are jerks with an ego the size of this planet. Does this make me a "cop hater" for feeling this way? Or because they've personally been extremely rude to me, I'm supposed to ignore that? ...Or am I supposed to grovel at their feet and throw myself at them because they are cops? 

They have a respectable job, and it definitely takes a lot mentally and physically... but that doesn't mean 100% of them deserve that respect or follow the same idea of the job. I've known of cops here that have stolen drugs from investigations and from evidence. I've known of cops that have been apart of police brutality.... for no real reason. I've heard stories from my brother of MP's going and shooting innocent people in the middle east while he was on tour over there. Should they get respect? Should I assume they are always 100% right and are like a saint? Heck no. 

Coming from a family full of LE and Military... I not only respect them and everything they do for our town, but I also understand they CHOSE that profession. No one forced them, no one told them they HAD to risk their lives. If they didn't want to they could easily be a paper pusher some where else.

Just because someone says something against one cop who made a mistake doesn't make them a cop hater.... just like being a cop doesn't make you godly or above all humans. Simple as that.

I am mad at my SO's cardiologist because he prescribed 2 medications without even explaining the reasons to my SO.... Am I a doctor hater too?


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## KatsMuse

I agree...we've gone off topic in this thread as well. 
It's a sad story...so many others out there 

(I have no problem with someone typing on a teeny keyboard and having errors...we aren't perfect either.)


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## x0emiroxy0x

When the same people post negative about cops week after week with these terribly written, biased news stories, I consider it bashing. Perhaps you did not read the same threads as I did over the past few months.

Everyone makes a mistake here and there, but when you call someone else you don't even know "Stupid" and proceed to make more than 4 grammatical errors in a post less than 10 words, then you are asking to be called out.

Of course not all cops are good. Just like any profession. But as stated earlier, when people make a point to post about "bad cops" week after week on a DOG forum, I notice it.


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## selzer

Twyla said:


> Back to the original article..
> 
> If anyone noticed; there are actually 2 different stories given about the dog being shot:
> 
> "Sharon Gonzalez, whose daughter Lindsey owned the 9-year-old pit bull named Brad, said an officer told them that the dog was shot through a gate because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house."
> 
> "Riverside police Lt. Guy Toussaint said that the officer was actually in the backyard, was charged by the dog and fired his gun to protect himself."
> 
> Regardless of which version is true, there is still a dead dog and broken hearted kid. And that isn't saying the cops are the bad guys, they are doing their job, which is putting their life on the line every day. Dogs are not their priority.
> 
> Just something to be aware of what can happen, no matter of the dog is of good temperament or aggressive.


I don't hear anyone saying the guy chased the murder suspect over the fence into the yard though. 

I guess you have to decide whether the reckless destruction of property, and property that is alive and has feeling and lot of value to the owners is warranted. 

As for a murder suspect being in a residential area, well, most of them are most of the time. They are people and they generally live in residential areas. They have sisters and brothers and parents who live in residential areas. I may be wrong but it seems like the majority of them killed their wife in a moment of drunken stupidity or rage. Most of them will not run, and will not shoot it out with the cops, though some will. I almost would rather have them come for a murder suspect, than drugs -- those people are totally wacked and don't care who they hurt in whatever stupid attempt they make at running or hiding. 

It is very possible that the newspaper used the top crime, and did not say a suspected gang member, drug dealer and murderer. We just don't know how volatile the situation was actually. Was this guy holed up with his wife and kids, with his parents, or with strangers? How likely was it for him to hurt someone he was with? How likely was it for him to run away and hurt a lot more people? I really don't know.

It seems to me that police should not be able to go through a yard with a dog contained within the yard unless the people at that residence are the ones they are after, or they are actively chasing someone into/through the yard. 

Think of it this way. Let's say your mercedes is parked in your back yard. And it is blocking the view of some suspected activity in the house next door. Should the cops be able to blow your Mercedes up so they can have a better view? I rate a dog that people have for 9 years higher than a stupid car any day.


----------



## KatsMuse

x0emiroxy0x said:


> When the same people post negative about cops week after week with these terribly written, biased news stories, I consider it bashing. Perhaps you did not read the same threads as I did over the past few months.
> 
> Everyone makes a mistake here and there, but when you call someone else you don't even know "Stupid" and proceed to make more than 4 grammatical errors in a post less than 10 words, then you are asking to be called out.
> 
> Of course not all cops are good. Just like any profession. But as stated earlier, when people make a point to post about "bad cops" week after week on a DOG forum, I notice it.


I have noticed that too...


----------



## KatsMuse

selzer said:


> I don't hear anyone saying the guy chased the murder suspect over the fence into the yard though.
> 
> I guess you have to decide whether the reckless destruction of property, and property that is alive and has feeling and lot of value to the owners is warranted.
> 
> As for a murder suspect being in a residential area, well, most of them are most of the time. They are people and they generally live in residential areas. They have sisters and brothers and parents who live in residential areas. I may be wrong but it seems like the majority of them killed their wife in a moment of drunken stupidity or rage. Most of them will not run, and will not shoot it out with the cops, though some will. I almost would rather have them come for a murder suspect, than drugs -- those people are totally wacked and don't care who they hurt in whatever stupid attempt they make at running or hiding.
> 
> It is very possible that the newspaper used the top crime, and did not say a suspected gang member, drug dealer and murderer. We just don't know how volatile the situation was actually. Was this guy holed up with his wife and kids, with his parents, or with strangers? How likely was it for him to hurt someone he was with? How likely was it for him to run away and hurt a lot more people? I really don't know.
> 
> It seems to me that police should not be able to go through a yard with a dog contained within the yard unless the people at that residence are the ones they are after, or they are actively chasing someone into/through the yard.
> 
> Think of it this way. Let's say your mercedes is parked in your back yard. And it is blocking the view of some suspected activity in the house next door. Should the cops be able to blow your Mercedes up so they can have a better view? I rate a dog that people have for 9 years higher than a stupid car any day.


Fresh Pursuit Law & Legal Definition

Please read the link for a better understanding of police ability to go into a yard


----------



## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> When the same people post negative about cops week after week with these terribly written, biased news stories, I consider it bashing. Perhaps you did not read the same threads as I did over the past few months.
> 
> Everyone makes a mistake here and there, but when you call someone else you don't even know "Stupid" and proceed to make more than 4 grammatical errors in a post less than 10 words, then you are asking to be called out.
> 
> Of course not all cops are good. Just like any profession. But as stated earlier, when people make a point to post about "bad cops" week after week on a DOG forum, I notice it.


The posts themselves are pertinent. Sorry. They have dogs in them. Formidable dogs that are being shot and killed because the police need to secure a scene or get them out of their way. We have formidable dogs too. And it scares the bejesus out of us when cops will kill a dog that is in its own yard, and its owner has done nothing wrong. We are afraid for our own dogs. 

I too have seen and known way too many cops in a small town / rural county to give them all a free pass. They risk their lives, yes. Lots of people do when they go to work. Police officer is not one of the most dangerous jobs out there. I think lumberjack or farmer is. Have you hugged your power company lineman today? It is a dangerous job. I wouldn't want to be up on a pole in a bad storm or in a blizzard so that thousands of people will not freeze from lack of electricity. But they choose that profession, and they die too, only no one makes out that they are heroes for being injured or killed in the line of duty, no public funeral, no news story with the grieving wife and kids. 

Since 9-11 there has been a solid shift in how people respect police officers, and that is not a bad thing. But it is doing them no favors to put them up on pedestals either. They are human, and as humans, they can make bad decisions. Because they carry guns and are trained and conditioned to go for them, their bad decisions can be that much worse than decisions most of the rest of us make. 

They go to an academy, yes, not all of those are equal either. It may be a 12 week program, it may be a 26 week program, it may be a year. It doesn't mean they are rocket scientists. I think the FBI requires entrants to have a BS before applying, and yes they are the elite. But your average police officer has about as much education as a nurse's aide or LPN (do these even exist any more?) or vet tech -- more than a high school graduate, less than a college graduate.


----------



## selzer

KatsMuse said:


> Fresh Pursuit Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Please read the link for a better understanding of police ability to go into a yard


No. Got to go. Sorry.


----------



## harmony

I read in the paper a while back that the law was called in the next county over for 4 mean dogs running loose. One or two of the dogs attacked another neighbors dog (don't know the breeds) and mauled it. The law shows up and the carzy lady came out screaming at the law and one of her dogs went after a law officer. The law had to spray the dog with mase and arrested the woman for her ignorance. Just saying..


----------



## llombardo

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Wow. You really hate the police for some reason. What a generalized, ignorant statement.
> 
> Cops don't walk around shooting dogs that are laying on the porch silently....sorry, that doesn't happen. They wouldn't risk their job over a dog.


I don't see anywhere where I stated I hate police. Police are human, they make mistakes and they need to be held accountable just like anyone else for mistakes they made. They aren't perfect and I respect them as a whole, but I'm not naive to think that there are all good cops out there. Your right a police officer will not risk there job over a dog, but they can be human enough to admit that they made a mistake and it would be nice if they apologized to the owners of both dogs in both of the stories. I don't believe for a minute that either dog was attacking or charging the officers, they seen a big dog, freaked out, and did what they thought was right at the time. Granted there is not a lot of time to think in some situations, but some things just can't be undone.


----------



## KatsMuse

llombardo said:


> I don't see anywhere where I stated I hate police. Police are human, they make mistakes and they need to be held accountable just like anyone else for mistakes they made. They aren't perfect and I respect them as a whole, but I'm not naive to think that there are all good cops out there. Your right a police officer will not risk there job over a dog, but they can be human enough to admit that they made a mistake and it would be nice if they apologized to the owners of both dogs in both of the stories. *I don't believe for a minute that either dog was attacking or charging the officers, they seen a big dog, freaked out, and did what they thought was right at the time. *Granted there is not a lot of time to think in some situations, but some things just can't be undone.[/
> 
> Okay.....on what you believe about either dog attacking or charging?
> I wasn't there so I can't say
> 
> In the threads original article, " _Gonzalez added that officers were apologetic._."
> 
> I believe that was the owner(s) statement.


----------



## llombardo

harmony said:


> The law had to spray the dog with mase and arrested the woman for her ignorance. Just saying..


All police in my area carry guns, stun guns, and mace/pepper spray. There is always an option for each individual situation. I don't see an issue with a dog being maced or pepper sprayed if its necessary, a stun gun is even a possibility, but to just shoot a dog? Not in todays world where there are other options. Just not acceptable.


----------



## LARHAGE

Beau said:


> This thread really got me thinking about my dogs and what would happen if I needed emergency or police services.
> 
> I called my neighbor, who is the Sheriff of the county I live in and asked him how his department is trained to respond in all of the situations we've read about recently. Specifically, I asked about how they would respond if I needed EMS at my home.
> 
> His response: "If the dog appears agitated in any way, we are trained to shoot it".
> 
> I said: Define "agitated."
> 
> His response: "Barking, growling, or appearing to threaten. Even if its not barking or growling, if it appears threatening, we will shoot it. Protection of our officers and EMS personnel conducting their duties is our paramount objective."
> 
> Me: "So you'd shoot my dog, whom you know; has played with you, your children and your dogs; who sat in your lap during last years Christmas parade, you'd shoot that dog if you came on MY property chasing a suspect and he barked at you?"
> 
> Him: "Yes. It sucks I know, and I'd feel horrible about it, if it came to that. But the protocol is the protocol."
> 
> To say I'm stunned would be an understatement......



Yeah, and just think often that person making the decision has the mentality of the cop who shot the dog through the gate of his yard, I'm thinking I'd rather arm myself and take my chances on protecting and serving myself.


----------



## LARHAGE

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Read the story again...same "anonymous" witness said both quotes.
> 
> What sensationalist writer wouldn't make up an anonymous witness to create a dramatic story?


What cop would make up his own version? Rolling eyes, look, I'm not anti-cop , but I'm not going to put them on a boy scout pedestal, just as many of them lie and twist the truth as us low life civilians, they are no better or worse than any of us, the difference is they are armed and do more damage.


----------



## selzer

KatsMuse said:


> Fresh Pursuit Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Please read the link for a better understanding of police ability to go into a yard


Ok, back now, looked at your link, could not find anything with the ability of the police to go into a yard. Saw some stuff about how police from another state or jurisdiction could follow someone, and if the house is owned by the suspect the cops need to believe he is in there, if it is owned by a third party, relative or friend, they must have probable cause to believe he is in there. 

But unless I am missing something, it really does not speak of the rights of innocent property owners to be safe from the police entering their fenced yard and murdering their pets.


----------



## harmony

llombardo said:


> All police in my area carry guns, stun guns, and mace/pepper spray. There is always an option for each individual situation. I don't see an issue with a dog being maced or pepper sprayed if its necessary, a stun gun is even a possibility, but to just shoot a dog? Not in todays world where there are other options. Just not acceptable.


Yep you got my point . Thank You!!


----------



## selzer

I would not want my dog stunned or pepper sprayed while doing their job in their yard either, not to make the police officer's job easier. To save the guy's life, sure. But it sounds like this dude was cutting through the yard to set himself up into a position to watch the back. I just don't think that is sufficient cause to attack an uninvolved individual's pet. 

Just because it is not lethal does not mean it won't hurt the dog pretty significantly.


----------



## llombardo

selzer said:


> I would not want my dog stunned or pepper sprayed while doing their job in their yard either, not to make the police officer's job easier. To save the guy's life, sure. But it sounds like this dude was cutting through the yard to set himself up into a position to watch the back. I just don't think that is sufficient cause to attack an uninvolved individual's pet.
> 
> Just because it is not lethal does not mean it won't hurt the dog pretty significantly.


Oh I agree with you, but we don't have that choice as regular people. They will do what they feel is necessary and no matter what it will be justified. I would just rather my dog be alive....because the way it seems, the options at this point are alive or dead...no in between


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## x0emiroxy0x

llombardo said:


> Oh I agree with you, but we don't have that choice as regular people. They will do what they feel is necessary and no matter what it will be justified. I would just rather my dog be alive....because the way it seems, the options at this point are alive or dead...no in between


I hope you don't lay in bed at night worrying about this. There are 74 million pets in the US....we probably hear about a story like this 1-3 times a month, sometimes even 0. 90% of them involve pitbulls attacking officers or "officers shooting innocent pitbulls lying on their porches", whichever side you believe.

The chances of this happening to you are less likely then getting in a car crash by about 1000 times.

Your dog is more likely to be mauled by a pitbull while you are on a walk than shot by a cop if you take the number of pit bull maulings vs number of dogs (or even specifically GSDs) shot by cops. 

So maybe you should complain about people owning pitbulls in neighborhoods instead of cops being able to shoot a dog to save your life.

Rocky has had 5 pitbull attacks in two years. 3 required stitches or vet visits. We have met about 30 cops in that time, one of which he growled at when he tried to pet him. What did the cop do? Back up and say "Sorry for getting in your space big boy". No gun shooting! OMG! Then the cop asked for a treat, gave it to him, and petted Rocky! He still didn't shoot/taze/or mace him. Unbelievable!


----------



## x0emiroxy0x

2011 U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Statistics - DogsBite.org - DogsBite.org

Out of 31 dog killings, 22 killings were done by pitbulls, which make up less than 5% of dog population.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1103.pdf

In 2009 there were 35,900 car accident deaths.

If we "guesstimate" the average number of dogs shot by cops a month to be 2.5, multiply by 12, that is 30 dogs shot a year by cops.

So you are 1196 times more likely to die in a car accident (with or without your dogs in the car) then have you dog shot by a cop.

You are just as likely to get killed by a dog as your dog get shot by a cop.

The chances of being bit by a pitbull type dog, rottweiler, german shepherd, or mastiff are the same as being in a car crash.

There you go! I would worry about dying in a car crash, or being bit by a dog. Not getting killed by a dog or your dog being shot by a cop.


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## LaRen616

I would be *LIVID* if my dog was shot and killed doing his job which is to protect me and his property.


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## llombardo

One dog shot by the police is to many...shouldn't happen in this day and age. And I'm sorry you have had so many bad experiences with pits. I have never had an issue with a pit bull, but I have with Rotts a couple times..do I hate the breed? Not at all. Pits have become what they are because of people. Dobes, GSD's, and Rotts have all been there and in some situations they all are still considered dangerous. It scares me to see cops shooting pit bulls because in reality it could be any of the breeds I mentioned. Personally I am more leery of rotts because it has been proven that they have the biggest bite force. Any of us could be in the same situation and I can only pray I never run into a cop that decides my dog is vicious.


----------



## katdog5911

selzer said:


> Ok, back now, looked at your link, could not find anything with the ability of the police to go into a yard. Saw some stuff about how police from another state or jurisdiction could follow someone, and if the house is owned by the suspect the cops need to believe he is in there, if it is owned by a third party, relative or friend, they must have probable cause to believe he is in there.
> 
> But unless I am missing something, it really does not speak of the rights of innocent property owners to be safe from the police entering their fenced yard and murdering their pets.


This..... 

And as far as grammar and stupid go....I don't consider these forums a place that I need to make sure all my i's are dotted and t's are crossed. I even know quite a few people with degrees, yes even teachers, that make grammatical and spelling errors. Done on here, who really cares. Done at work or school....whole 'nother ball game.


----------



## selzer

x0emiroxy0x said:


> I hope you don't lay in bed at night worrying about this. There are 74 million pets in the US....we probably hear about a story like this 1-3 times a month, sometimes even 0. 90% of them involve pitbulls attacking officers or "officers shooting innocent pitbulls lying on their porches", whichever side you believe.
> 
> The chances of this happening to you are less likely then getting in a car crash by about 1000 times.
> 
> Your dog is more likely to be mauled by a pitbull while you are on a walk than shot by a cop if you take the number of pit bull maulings vs number of dogs (or even specifically GSDs) shot by cops.
> 
> So maybe you should complain about people owning pitbulls in neighborhoods instead of cops being able to shoot a dog to save your life.
> 
> Rocky has had 5 pitbull attacks in two years. 3 required stitches or vet visits. We have met about 30 cops in that time, one of which he growled at when he tried to pet him. What did the cop do? Back up and say "Sorry for getting in your space big boy". No gun shooting! OMG! Then the cop asked for a treat, gave it to him, and petted Rocky! He still didn't shoot/taze/or mace him. Unbelievable!


The reason this is rare is because _this police officer_ did the WRONG thing. NO WAY is this OK, shooting a dog in a yard so you can get a better position. That is similar to blasting a Mercedes out of your way so you can get a better view (only this is worse). No no no no no way!!!

I understand your BF is in the academy. But you better figure it out that police officers come in all varieties. There are big ones, small ones, black ones, white ones, good ones, bad ones, smart ones, and not so bright ones. Some of them abuse their wives and children. Some are corrupt. They are human beings and they drink, they smoke, they do all the things other humans do. They are tempted by an easy buck like anyone else and are some times in more of a position to be tempted. Some of them walk up close to the line and some cross over. And there is NO profession on earth that is made up of 100% perfect people.


----------



## selzer

katdog5911 said:


> This.....
> 
> And as far as grammar and stupid go....I don't consider these forums a place that I need to make sure all my i's are dotted and t's are crossed. I even know quite a few people with degrees, yes even teachers, that make grammatical and spelling errors. Done on here, who really cares. Done at work or school....whole 'nother ball game.


I have a problem with people calling other people stupid, whether it is an individual, or in general: ie. "another stupid cop." However, I don't think that a few errors in grammar or punctuation means someone is incapable of having the opinion that there was a major error in judgment. 

But, I think that there is no excuse for not trying to write to the level that you were taught to write. These forums are the perfect opportunity to improve your writing skills and make it second nature to write properly. How you come across in your written communication can make a big difference in how far you are likely to go in your professional life. Why would anyone choose to write at a sixth grade level anywhere if they are capable of doing better. 

I know how to use the words, there, their, and they're, too, to, and two, and others, and yet on occasion, I type out the wrong one. It is mortifying because I know better than that. The idea, what the heck, this is just an chat room or forum, I think that is really a poor attitude.


----------



## DnP

selzer said:


> And there is NO profession on earth that is made up of 100% perfect people.


Absolutely...there is NO profession on earth that is made of perfect people. The perfect person does not exist. To err is human. Everyone makes mistakes. 

I will not get into a debate on whether an LEO is justified to shoot a dog. I do not have enough facts and do have enough conflicting information to make a comment on this incident. 

Many bandwagons seemed to be jumped on rather quickly here and many generalizations are made as well...on BOTH sides. We all have experiences in our lives that shape our views of LEOs....good and bad. 

The majority of LEOs are required to have a 4 year degree. Many local PDs do not but most departments on all levels do. You cannot get a federal or state LEO job without one. Are there people in this job that don't belong..oh heck yes! But that can be said for just about any career! Unfortunately, this is a job where the ones that don't belong are given more attention than the ones that do...


----------



## LaRen616

selzer said:


> *The reason this is rare is because this police officer did the WRONG thing. NO WAY is this OK, shooting a dog in a yard so you can get a better position.* That is similar to blasting a Mercedes out of your way so you can get a better view (only this is worse). No no no no no way!!!
> 
> I understand your BF is in the academy. But you better figure it out that police officers come in all varieties. There are big ones, small ones, black ones, white ones, good ones, bad ones, smart ones, and not so bright ones. Some of them abuse their wives and children. Some are corrupt. They are human beings and they drink, they smoke, they do all the things other humans do. They are tempted by an easy buck like anyone else and are some times in more of a position to be tempted. Some of them walk up close to the line and some cross over. And there is NO profession on earth that is made up of 100% perfect people.


I agree with this.


----------



## KatsMuse

selzer said:


> Ok, back now, looked at your link, could not find anything with the ability of the police to go into a yard. Saw some stuff about how police from another state or jurisdiction could follow someone, and if the house is owned by the suspect the cops need to believe he is in there, if it is owned by a third party, relative or friend, they must have probable cause to believe he is in there.
> 
> But unless I am missing something, it really does not speak of the rights of innocent property owners to be safe from the police entering their fenced yard and murdering their pets.


I'm sorry , I thought you knew about the Fourth Amendment ...
And about the fresh/hot pursuit clause...also I thought that you understood difference in searches ( warrants, warrantless). 
I'll relist the pertinent parts that you didn't understand. 

*I will not argue, however, about whether the police officer's statement of a charging pit is valid, or that I believe everything I read in any newspaper. nor, will I judge another person's actions, UNLESS I WAS THERE and actually witnessed it.*
I was just merely stating what LAW applies as to safeguarding the public / entering premises in general, under the Fourth amendment. 

( If you'd like, I can publish it in its entirety but, I think this will suffice?) 



OVERVIEW OF FOURTH AMENDMENT PRINCIPLES
§ 1.01 Text of the Fourth Amendment
*
The*Fourth Amendment*reads:
*
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
*
§ 1.03 “Persons, Houses, Papers, and Effects”
*
[A] “Persons”
*
For Fourth Amendment purposes, “person” includes:
(1) the defendant's body as a whole (as when he is arrested);
(2) the exterior of the defendant's body, including his clothing (as when he is patted down for weapons);
(3) the interior of the defendant's body (as when his blood or urine is tested for drugs or alcohol);
(4) the defendant's oral communications (as when his conversations are subjected to electronic surveillance).
*
***“Houses”
*
“House” has been broadly construed to include:
(1) structures used as residences, including those used on a temporary basis, such as a hotel room;
(2) buildings attached to the residence, such as a garage;
(3) buildings not physically attached to a residence that nevertheless are used for intimate activities of the home,*e.g., a shed;
(4) the curtilage*of the home, which is the land*immediately surrounding*and associated with the home, such as a backyard.**However, unoccupied and undeveloped property beyond the curtilage of a home (“open fields”) falls outside of the*Fourth Amendment.
*
Factors relevant to determining whether land falls within the cartilage are:
(1) the proximity of the land to the home;
(2) whether the area is included within enclosures surrounding the house;
(3) the nature of the use to which the area is put; and
(4) the steps taken by the resident to protect the land in question from observation.
United States*v. Dunn,*480 U.S. 294*(1987).
*

§ 3.05**Exigent Circumstances
*
Exigent circumstances can justify a warrantless entry of a home to make a*felony arrest*or to conduct a search related to a serious offense under the following circumstances:
(1)*hot pursuit*of a fleeing felon;
(2)*imminent destruction of evidence;
(3) the need to*prevent a felon's escape; or
(4)*risk of harm*to the police or others.
**


----------



## selzer

Actually, my last class that had anything to do with government/constitution was high school back in '85. Yes, I have heard of the bill of rights. We talk a lot about the freedom of religion, and I am sure I have heard about unreasonable search and seizures. 

I saw none of that on your link. 

And from what you wrote, it sounds like the person's back yard would be like his home. 

If that is the case, everyone who feels that the problem was due to the family leaving the dog in the yard, and they are safe because their dogs are within their homes, well they aren't so safe then, if trying to ensure that this felon gives the police the right to traipse through your fenced yard, it would also give them the right to traipse through your house, and murder your dog.

Actually, the guy they were after was not a felon. He was accused of committing a felony, but I still think it is a bit beyond the scope of the rights of police to destroy property (live critter) of an uninvolved citizen because they want to close in on a suspected perpetrator.


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## KatsMuse

I feel bad about this child's pet as well, as I've stated before. 

Below is the contact info for the Police Dept, if you wish to make a complaint.


Riverside, California | City of Arts & Innovation | Riverside Police Department


----------



## Olivers mama

KatsMuse - no one taking you up on the offer to file a complaint with Riverside PD? R U surprised?

I've followed this thread from the beginning. I didn't want to post due to 'slammers'.

I learned a long time ago that news stories aren't always 100% accurate. In other words, not everything is true that is written in a paper or magazine or the web. I've asked a friend of mine (who has access to similar info) if he can find out what really happened. Eyewitnesses & cops alike. If he can find out anything, I'll post it. I just wish people would wait for the whole story before assigning blame on 1 side or the other. I understand many don't like cops & that's OK. For those that truly believe this cop was in the wrong, I really believe you should file a complaint with the PD. A rogue cop is not what's needed. The bad apples need to be weeded out. It would be nice to have all the facts first, but what the heck? File the complaint anyway.

BTW - I "also" read that the family of the dog is "shopping attorneys".


----------



## KatsMuse

Olivers mama said:


> KatsMuse - no one taking you up on the offer to file a complaint with Riverside PD? R U surprised?
> 
> I've followed this thread from the beginning. I didn't want to post due to 'slammers'.
> 
> I learned a long time ago that news stories aren't always 100% accurate. In other words, not everything is true that is written in a paper or magazine or the web. I've asked a friend of mine (who has access to similar info) if he can find out what really happened. Eyewitnesses & cops alike. If he can find out anything, I'll post it. I just wish people would wait for the whole story before assigning blame on 1 side or the other. I understand many don't like cops & that's OK. For those that truly believe this cop was in the wrong, I really believe you should file a complaint with the PD. A rogue cop is not what's needed. The bad apples need to be weeded out. *It would be nice to have all the facts first, but what the heck? File the complaint anyway.*
> 
> BTW - I "also" read that the family of the dog is "shopping attorneys".


Actually, I don't know if any are filing complaints or not. 
There is a phone number, address and even email address for the Department...easy to do. Whichever way they feel is best.
BTW, Chief's name is SERGIO G DIAZ.


----------



## Curious

I would hate to see what people think is bashing if you think there is no cop bashing going on in this thread. People have stated this PO should be pushing paper for the rest of his career, pay the owners 100k for the dog, stated the PO would have had the same reaction if it had been a child in the backyard instead of a dog, compared the job to that of a vet tech and wondered why we don't honor farmers when they die. Ever see a farmer respond to a domestic despute? Think the decisions a vet tech make are equal to that of a LEO? Now I'll admit there are good and bad cops but there are also good and bad pet owners and witness'. How many interviews have you seen were they say the pet/human was nice as pie and wouldn't hurt anyone. The pet/victim going to the hospital should be ignored because people don't lie right? The LEO may have volunteered for their position but it's easy for us to debate the decisions they have to make in the heat of the moment.


----------



## llombardo

Curious said:


> I would hate to see what people think is bashing if you think there is no cop bashing going on in this thread. People have stated this PO should be pushing paper for the rest of his career, pay the owners 100k for the dog, stated the PO would have had the same reaction if it had been a child in the backyard instead of a dog, compared the job to that of a vet tech and wondered why we don't honor farmers when they die. Ever see a farmer respond to a domestic despute? Think the decisions a vet tech make are equal to that of a LEO? Now I'll admit there are good and bad cops but there are also good and bad pet owners and witness'. How many interviews have you seen were they say the pet/human was nice as pie and wouldn't hurt anyone. The pet/victim going to the hospital should be ignored because people don't lie right? The LEO may have volunteered for their position but it's easy for us to debate the decisions they have to make in the heat of the moment.


The biggest problem with this story, besides the dog being dead, is that two different police officers have two different stories. One said that the dog was shot from outside the fence because they needed to get in and the other one says they were already in when the dog charged them...either situation is not good. There will be a case and the case will settle out of court, because the cops themselves can't get the story straight. It has also been pointed out that this is a chosen career, with all risks known. I was going to be a police officer, finished half my schooling before I changed my mind. From I witnessed first hand, there needs to be a big over haul within the system to weed out the good from the bad...because the bad will bring the good down. Of course this is my opinion from what I experienced


----------



## Olivers mama

Thank you, Curious - well-said. I personally wish we had the full story before bashing the Bad Cop & bemoaning the Dog & it's Owners. And we will seldom get the 'full story' from a newspaper. Particularly if it's in this state & especially if it involves cops. IMHO. I hope my friend can access the report...


----------



## llombardo

Olivers mama said:


> Thank you, Curious - well-said. I personally wish we had the full story before bashing the Bad Cop & bemoaning the Dog & it's Owners. And we will seldom get the 'full story' from a newspaper. Particularly if it's in this state & especially if it involves cops. IMHO. I hope my friend can access the report...


Yes it would be interesting to see the final report...I would like to see which police officer's version is on it. I can bet its the one that was in the yard


----------



## KatsMuse

llombardo said:


> The biggest problem with this story, besides the dog being dead, is that two different police officers have two different stories. One said that the dog was shot from outside the fence because they needed to get in and the other one says they were already in when the dog charged them...either situation is not good. There will be a case and the case will settle out of court, because the cops themselves can't get the story straight. It has also been pointed out that this is a chosen career, with all risks known. I was going to be a police officer, finished half my schooling before I changed my mind. From I witnessed first hand, there needs to be a big over haul within the system to weed out the good from the bad...because the bad will bring the good down. Of course this is my opinion from what I experienced


*Witness statement:*
"Sharon Gonzalez, whose daughter Lindsey owned the 9-year-old pit bull named Brad, said an officer told them that the dog was shot through a gate because officers needed to get into the backyard two doors away from the suspect’s house."

*Officer statement :*
"Riverside police Lt. Guy Toussaint said that the officer was actually in the backyard, was charged by the dog and fired his gun to protect himself."

Either way, it's a mute point until the investigation is over


----------



## Olivers mama

Seems to me, EVERYONE'S statements - including the cops' - will be there. Not just the 2 specified by lombardo. (How do you know there was only 2?) Oh, I forgot - because the NEWSPAPER said so...seems to me there'd be more than that chasing a murder suspect...

All I'm saying, is that it truly would be nice to know the whole of the situation. Perhaps we never will. I'd still prefer to know the truth before passing judgment. 

And BTW - I happen to like the PB breed. Even went to a strange one's aid after it'd been HBC & the driver took off. Never been threatened by pits, rotties, dobies, GSD - just the barking slippers who approach & attach their teeth to your ankle.


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## llombardo

Family of Dog Shot and Killed Speaks Out - YouTube

So the fence has a chain and lock on it, the police jumped the fence and shot the dog? Or did they shoot through the fence? Setting up to raid a house two doors down? Through a cement wall? What were they going to do from two doors down?


----------



## msvette2u

Curious said:


> *I would hate to see what people think is bashing if you think there is no cop bashing going on in this thread. *People have stated this PO should be pushing paper for the rest of his career, pay the owners 100k for the dog, stated the PO would have had the same reaction if it had been a child in the backyard instead of a dog, compared the job to that of a vet tech and wondered why we don't honor farmers when they die. Ever see a farmer respond to a domestic despute? Think the decisions a vet tech make are equal to that of a LEO? Now I'll admit there are good and bad cops but there are also good and bad pet owners and witness'. How many interviews have you seen were they say the pet/human was nice as pie and wouldn't hurt anyone. The pet/victim going to the hospital should be ignored because people don't lie right? The LEO may have volunteered for their position but it's easy for us to debate the decisions they have to make in the heat of the moment.


Oh but it's America's favorite pasttime, right after football...


----------



## KatsMuse

KatsMuse said:


> I feel bad about this child's pet as well, as I've stated before.
> 
> Below is the contact info for the Police Dept, if you wish to make a complaint.
> 
> 
> Riverside, California | City of Arts & Innovation | Riverside Police Department


Chief's name is Sergio Diaz


----------



## llombardo

KatsMuse said:


> Chief's name is Sergio Diaz


Dogs name was Brad...watch the video 

Family of Dog Shot and Killed Speaks Out - YouTube


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## Olivers mama

Yes, please "watch the video". Reigns right up there as the news article. I certainly get a lot of my info from sources such as YouTube...

You know what's REALLY sad? That so few are vying for the whole story - beFORE passing judgment, while so many others are so quick to judge. Dog is dead. Cop is not. I wonder - would the anti-cops be so upset had it been the other way around?

Can't you people wait for the full story? Would YOU like to be judged before the entire truth came out? I doubt it.

I hadn't realized YouTube was right up there with Britannica, when it comes to explanations & truth. Mybad.


----------



## selzer

Baloney! 

Why should cops get the benefit of the doubt and a never ending period to fabricate their stories. Oh the media is against them, oh we aren't getting the whole story. If this was a thread about a buyer unhappy with response they are getting from the breeder, well, Sue, we all know you like to show the other perspective, but this is cut and dried. We never heard word one from the breeder, and it was nice of the OP to come on and say that they did cut another check. But we do not band together and wait for the rest of the story when it DOES NOT HAVE TO DO WITH LEOs. 

Sorry, had to get that out. 

I did not say the police officer should have to pay 100k, I said the government office that has jurisdiction over the police department. If it was a sherriff, the county would have to pay and the sherriff would have to deal with the guff from the community. That would trickle down to ensure that the beat-cops know better than to slaughter dogs that are contained in their yards, but in their way. If it is a police department run by a village or city, the Mayor would make sure that someone hears of it big time.

Yes, these people SHOULD be lawyer-shopping! Of course they should! Someone killed their dog which was in the sanctity of their home! Which one of you would not be looking for a lawyer if a police officer came into your home, or onto your property, where you dog was secure, and blasted him out of their way so that they could go looking for someone on some other property???

Is it because the owners of the dogs are Mexican or Latinos? Is it because the dog is a pit bull? Is it because the perpetrator was a police officer? But we are not going to believe this citizen, but we will want to hear from the cops? Why? Why do we always not have the full story, when it comes to cops. 

When it comes to dogs being seized by some animal control or humane society we do not want to know if there is more to the story. We are ready to rip the owners limb from limb. We are not wanting to look at the condition of the dogs. We just know that if they were taken, then it was 100% of the time warranted, regardless. No we don't need to hear from the millers. They are the scum of the earth. 

If some one's dog dies in a hot car, we don't want to hear that the husband put the dog in the car on a day when the maids were coming, and the wife took the car not knowing the old dog was in there. She killed her dog, fire her from her job, throw her in jail, we don't want to hear what she has to say about it, Scum of the EARTH!!!

But if it is a police officer and he murders a dog that trots over to say Hi to his dog in a dog park, well, we need to know the rest of the story. We should not bash him. He was protecting himself or his wife. And anyone who says, hey this is a dog park, that other dog was a regular and never had any problems at the park, well then we are haters. We hate cops because we are not going to wait until the trial is over to have an opinion about what happened. We don't wait until the trial for all the other people, just cops. That is discrimination, folks, clear and simple.

I say boloney! Cops are just like everyone else, human beings. They make mistakes, and in my opinion, this was one of them. 

And, no, I am not going to complain to a police department all the way on the other side of the continent. I am not in their jurisdiction. I am not voting for the people in office that they have to report to. What I think about this doesn't mean anything whatsoever to them, so why in the world would I complain to their chief of police. If this happened in my county, then I would probably write a few letters to a few people, and I might do more than that.


----------



## TrickyShepherd

selzer said:


> Baloney!
> 
> Why should cops get the benefit of the doubt and a never ending period to fabricate their stories. Oh the media is against them, oh we aren't getting the whole story. If this was a thread about a buyer unhappy with response they are getting from the breeder, well, Sue, we all know you like to show the other perspective, but this is cut and dried. We never heard word one from the breeder, and it was nice of the OP to come on and say that they did cut another check. But we do not band together and wait for the rest of the story when it DOES NOT HAVE TO DO WITH LEOs.
> 
> Sorry, had to get that out.
> 
> I did not say the police officer should have to pay 100k, I said the government office that has jurisdiction over the police department. If it was a sherriff, the county would have to pay and the sherriff would have to deal with the guff from the community. That would trickle down to ensure that the beat-cops know better than to slaughter dogs that are contained in their yards, but in their way. If it is a police department run by a village or city, the Mayor would make sure that someone hears of it big time.
> 
> Yes, these people SHOULD be lawyer-shopping! Of course they should! Someone killed their dog which was in the sanctity of their home! Which one of you would not be looking for a lawyer if a police officer came into your home, or onto your property, where you dog was secure, and blasted him out of their way so that they could go looking for someone on some other property???
> 
> Is it because the owners of the dogs are Mexican or Latinos? Is it because the dog is a pit bull? Is it because the perpetrator was a police officer? But we are not going to believe this citizen, but we will want to hear from the cops? Why? Why do we always not have the full story, when it comes to cops.
> 
> When it comes to dogs being seized by some animal control or humane society we do not want to know if there is more to the story. We are ready to rip the owners limb from limb. We are not wanting to look at the condition of the dogs. We just know that if they were taken, then it was 100% of the time warranted, regardless. No we don't need to hear from the millers. They are the scum of the earth.
> 
> If some one's dog dies in a hot car, we don't want to hear that the husband put the dog in the car on a day when the maids were coming, and the wife took the car not knowing the old dog was in there. She killed her dog, fire her from her job, throw her in jail, we don't want to hear what she has to say about it, Scum of the EARTH!!!
> 
> But if it is a police officer and he murders a dog that trots over to say Hi to his dog in a dog park, well, we need to know the rest of the story. We should not bash him. He was protecting himself or his wife. And anyone who says, hey this is a dog park, that other dog was a regular and never had any problems at the park, well then we are haters. We hate cops because we are not going to wait until the trial is over to have an opinion about what happened. We don't wait until the trial for all the other people, just cops. That is discrimination, folks, clear and simple.
> 
> I say boloney! Cops are just like everyone else, human beings. They make mistakes, and in my opinion, this was one of them.
> 
> And, no, I am not going to complain to a police department all the way on the other side of the continent. I am not in their jurisdiction. I am not voting for the people in office that they have to report to. What I think about this doesn't mean anything whatsoever to them, so why in the world would I complain to their chief of police. If this happened in my county, then I would probably write a few letters to a few people, and I might do more than that.


Absolutely agree! Well said.


----------



## llombardo

selzer said:


> Baloney!
> 
> Why should cops get the benefit of the doubt and a never ending period to fabricate their stories. Oh the media is against them, oh we aren't getting the whole story. If this was a thread about a buyer unhappy with response they are getting from the breeder, well, Sue, we all know you like to show the other perspective, but this is cut and dried. We never heard word one from the breeder, and it was nice of the OP to come on and say that they did cut another check. But we do not band together and wait for the rest of the story when it DOES NOT HAVE TO DO WITH LEOs.
> 
> Sorry, had to get that out.
> 
> I did not say the police officer should have to pay 100k, I said the government office that has jurisdiction over the police department. If it was a sherriff, the county would have to pay and the sherriff would have to deal with the guff from the community. That would trickle down to ensure that the beat-cops know better than to slaughter dogs that are contained in their yards, but in their way. If it is a police department run by a village or city, the Mayor would make sure that someone hears of it big time.
> 
> Yes, these people SHOULD be lawyer-shopping! Of course they should! Someone killed their dog which was in the sanctity of their home! Which one of you would not be looking for a lawyer if a police officer came into your home, or onto your property, where you dog was secure, and blasted him out of their way so that they could go looking for someone on some other property???
> 
> Is it because the owners of the dogs are Mexican or Latinos? Is it because the dog is a pit bull? Is it because the perpetrator was a police officer? But we are not going to believe this citizen, but we will want to hear from the cops? Why? Why do we always not have the full story, when it comes to cops.
> 
> When it comes to dogs being seized by some animal control or humane society we do not want to know if there is more to the story. We are ready to rip the owners limb from limb. We are not wanting to look at the condition of the dogs. We just know that if they were taken, then it was 100% of the time warranted, regardless. No we don't need to hear from the millers. They are the scum of the earth.
> 
> If some one's dog dies in a hot car, we don't want to hear that the husband put the dog in the car on a day when the maids were coming, and the wife took the car not knowing the old dog was in there. She killed her dog, fire her from her job, throw her in jail, we don't want to hear what she has to say about it, Scum of the EARTH!!!
> 
> But if it is a police officer and he murders a dog that trots over to say Hi to his dog in a dog park, well, we need to know the rest of the story. We should not bash him. He was protecting himself or his wife. And anyone who says, hey this is a dog park, that other dog was a regular and never had any problems at the park, well then we are haters. We hate cops because we are not going to wait until the trial is over to have an opinion about what happened. We don't wait until the trial for all the other people, just cops. That is discrimination, folks, clear and simple.
> 
> I say boloney! Cops are just like everyone else, human beings. They make mistakes, and in my opinion, this was one of them.
> 
> And, no, I am not going to complain to a police department all the way on the other side of the continent. I am not in their jurisdiction. I am not voting for the people in office that they have to report to. What I think about this doesn't mean anything whatsoever to them, so why in the world would I complain to their chief of police. If this happened in my county, then I would probably write a few letters to a few people, and I might do more than that.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

*Where the heck is the like button?*


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## Olivers mama

:headbang:


----------



## pets4life

i know some great cops who love dogs


but there are also cops who dont like dogs 


its just why should they get away with things all the time im kinda getting sick of this?


selzer said it best


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## llombardo

pets4life said:


> i know some great cops who love dogs
> 
> 
> but there are also cops who dont like dogs
> 
> 
> its just why should they get away with things all the time im kinda getting sick of this?
> 
> 
> selzer said it best


Its okay...there is a thing called Karma


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## x0emiroxy0x

Don't you love karma?

When you have a heart attack and the cops can't get in to save you because your dog is barking and they don't want to use "force" and harm the dog.....

You got your wish for cops to not shoot a dog to save a human but now you're dead because animal control couldn't get there in time to "gently" remove the dog. That worked out well for ya


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## llombardo

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Don't you love karma?
> 
> When you have a heart attack and the cops can't get in to save you because your dog is barking and they don't want to use "force" and harm the dog.....
> 
> You got your wish for cops to not shoot a dog to save a human but now you're dead because animal control couldn't get there in time to "gently" remove the dog. That worked out well for ya


Just for your information...all of my dogs would let the police in with no problems, so I'm not going anywhere anytime soon We had a murder suicide in my building and cops were everywhere, including in my apartment...for three days..in and out(because we found the bodies and statements were needed)the dogs played with them. So if you think for a minute that my opinion is based on what I fear would happen to my dogs...think again. *Someone calling the police into their own home is quite different then my neighbor calling the police and my dog gets shot and killed. Two completely different situations, can not even be compared* Both of these dogs in both of these cases were on their own property and the pursuit had nothing to do with their property...but yet they are dead? Give me a break. I'm also 100% sure that were I live, the police are better trained for situations like these.


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## harmony

x0emiroxy0x said:


> Don't you love karma?
> 
> When you have a heart attack and the cops can't get in to save you because your dog is barking and they don't want to use "force" and harm the dog.....
> 
> You got your wish for cops to not shoot a dog to save a human but now you're dead because animal control couldn't get there in time to "gently" remove the dog. That worked out well for ya


 This is no laughing matter but I am sorry when I read your last sentence it kind a stuck me funny
There was a time the law had to cross my land at night and look for a "bad guy" , I got lucky they gave me notice and told me any dog that came after them would be shot. At the time my horse dog was a rottie/mix and she wouldn't have hurt a flea but I knew better and put the dog up, because when the law is going after a bad person the blood gets hot (know what I mean).
Plus I think if this dog we are talking about was not aggressive but just barking the cop in question might not have knowen the difference. But also I would let the law do what they needed to also to save a life.


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## harmony

It might of been a big mistake, but I personally don't think the law looks to kill childrens dogs. It is a sad story though.. I also agree we may never know the whole story!


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## Anubis_Star

Coming from someone who recently made the EXTREMELY hard decision to have an aggressive GSD euthanized due to aggression issues, I understand where you're coming from. But on the other hand, this sort of behavior is to be expected from some breeds, and they should not be punished *with death* for doing so. There are reasons I have a 7 foot wood fence all around my back yard. It would be almost impossible for a younger child to climb the fence, and the barks alone should ward older children off.

Zeke is the largest attention ***** on the planet. He ADORES people. HOWEVER, he is also protective of the home, as I expect from a GSD. He will bark when the doorbell rings, but then down and stay as I let the person in, and greet them and be fine. However, he will also bark at people from the backyard, and if someone were to enter the yard, he WILL charge, and stop short about 5 feet away to bark. I myself experienced this when I left my keys in the house one night. I went around back to crawl in the kitchen window, and our backyard is pitch black at night. He didn't see ME, but saw SOMEONE go through the gate, and he charged at me, stopped 5 feet away, and stood there barking. Of course, one sharp "ZEKE" was enough to stop him, but being a young lone female I like that side of him.

We have one of those flie screens on the back door. We don't have an actual dog door, but on nice days I leave the back door open so he can come and go while we are at work. I trust that no one will break into the house with him the backyard 

HOWEVER, I feel for a cop to handle the situation like this is EXTREMELY foolish! "Aggressive"? So many dogs could be aggressive in so many situations. While as a vet tech I personally have never worked on police canines, I've heard horror stories of one unit that would take their dogs to a clinic my friend worked at. Those dogs were fairly hard to work on, and many really only behaved with their handlers. 

There are MANY ways this situation could of been handled, and I feel this is a very poor move. I understand apprehending a murder suspect is of the upmost importance, but animal control could of been called. Even most PDs I know of are starting to carry rabies poles in their vehicles. Or a perimeter in this yard could of been avoided. I can understand the fear the officer went through, to see a large dog charging at you. However, I feel it was a rash move and no matter the reasoning or intent behind it, it was the WRONG move to make. 



x0emiroxy0x said:


> Not sure why the word aggressive irks you? If I had an aggressive dog I would not leave it in a backyard where a neighborhood kid could climb the fence and get mauled.
> 
> If I had a backyard at all, I would never leave any dog of mine in it unsupervised.
> 
> If the cops jumped the fence into my dad's backyard, Freckles and Hercules would bark at them but would never charge at them. Hence, they would not be shot. Cops don't just shoot dogs standing in their backyards for the heck of it. They shoot dogs that try to attack them.
> 
> There is nothing "with me and aggressive dogs". I'm just tired of people flaming the police for doing their job. Dogs are not worth human lives.


----------



## Anubis_Star

That's very close to the emergency clinic I work at. How heart breaking! That infuriates me!!

I'm not bashing at cops. My uncle is a K9 officer in Arizona, and honestly I would like to be an officer in the future. However, stupid things like this should NOT be allowed, and should NOT be tolerated. Yes, we all make mistakes, but proper punishment should still be dealt!



llombardo said:


> There must be something in the air
> 
> Police shoot, kill dog while chasing suspect | KWGN.com – Denver, Colorado News & Weather from KWGN-TV Colorado's Own CW Channel 2


----------



## harmony

My first pet was a darn iguana and know one did anything to save his life and I had him for 5yrs atleast, when he broke my window out when I just went to the store!!! But everyone lived next to said they took pictures of him because they well???


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## PatchonGSD

never mind.


----------



## x0emiroxy0x

I'm confused about the iguana thing....lol


----------



## KatsMuse

harmony said:


> My first pet was a darn iguana and know one did anything to save his life and I had him for 5yrs atleast, when he broke my window out when I just went to the store!!! But everyone lived next to said they took pictures of him because they well???


I'm confused or missed something...


----------



## Olivers mama

Iguana story = Proof that drinking & posting @ the same time is not a good idea...lol

Best part of this thread IMO, in light of all the arguing & general cop-bashing.


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## selzer

I think there is a lot more Poster-bashing that cop-bashing in this thread.


----------



## Olivers mama

Yes, selzer - I believe I must agree. And I'm partly to blame for that.

It's no excuse, but sometime the chemo ticks me off & I take it out on others.

But I also know how to apologize - & am sorry if I was offensive to anyone.

Still don't get the iguana thing, tho!


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## selzer

I don't think any of us do.


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## achampagne

Hello everyone. I'm new here and would like to know how to teach roco the iguana how to jump thru a ring of fire while juggling a golf ball, tennis ball and hula hoop. Oh sorry wrong site, my bad.


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## harmony

I know it is pointless  If you want to have a cop bashing story, as some would have it, why not talk about all those people shot in front on the empire state building


----------



## selzer

harmony said:


> I know it is pointless  If you want to have a cop bashing story, as some would have it, why not talk about all those people shot in front on the empire state building


Maybe because this is a dog site, not a cop site.

I think most of us can picture having our dogs within our yard, and the last thing we want to worry about is having the cops come and shoot the dog to access our yard for their own purposes. 

That is kind of relevant to German Shepherd Dogs, as it could have been a GSD, as a LOT of our dogs would have run barking at an intruder in their yard whether the person had a uniform and badge or not. 

But if you want to talk about some other shooting, if it does not have to do with dogs in some way, then it should be in chat room.


----------



## harmony

selzer said:


> Maybe because this is a dog site, not a cop site.
> 
> I think most of us can picture having our dogs within our yard, and the last thing we want to worry about is having the cops come and shoot the dog to access our yard for their own purposes.
> 
> That is kind of relevant to German Shepherd Dogs, as it could have been a GSD, as a LOT of our dogs would have run barking at an intruder in their yard whether the person had a uniform and badge or not.
> 
> But if you want to talk about some other shooting, if it does not have to do with dogs in some way, then it should be in chat room.


I think people are to hard on the law, my goodness I would do the same if I had to save someones life (get the bad guy), a dog is not equal to a person. So all I was saying is if you want to complain about a cop doing their job all I did was give one a better example to do that


----------



## harmony

And maybe we know more about dogs then some in their profession, well because this is a dog site. Maybe I should hang my doctor too if he does not know any better about a dog, just saying


----------



## llombardo

harmony said:


> I think people are to hard on the law, my goodness I would do the same if I had to save someones life (get the bad guy), a dog is not equal to a person. So all I was saying is if you want to complain about a cop doing their job all I did was give one a better example to do that


You have to be kidding, right? The dog was shot through a locked gate(chain and all) through a fence, the police have changed their original story which was that the dog was shot through the gate, but oddly enough in the video footage the chain/lock was still in place, the police officer did not jump that fence, there would be no need to do so to set up a perimeter. So if the officer was not in the yard, he was not being threatened by the dog and he didn't need to shoot the dog.....these things all add up and it doesn't look good for the "law". They did apologize, so I guess that counts for something??


----------



## selzer

harmony said:


> I think people are to hard on the law, my goodness I would do the same if I had to save someones life (get the bad guy), a dog is not equal to a person. So all I was saying is if you want to complain about a cop doing their job all I did was give one a better example to do that


A dog is not equal to a human life in my opinion. 

If my dog was going after a police officer, then I would feel real bad about it, but I would understand the police officer shooting my dog. However, if that police officer was in my yard, or shot into my yard to kill my dog, even though the dog was contained within the yard, and I was not the object of their business on my road, then I would be as angry as a hornet. 

See, I don't think getting yourself in a position so you can raid someone else's home, is a good excuse for killing my dog, that is contained on my property. 

We should feel a level of safety within our homes and on our land. We should be able to take certain measures that will assure the safety of our critters. Critters are not equal to a human life, no, but they are not equal to furniture either. They have personalities, and feelings, and we who own them owe them some level of responsibility. We need to protect them from the big bad world as well as care for their physical needs. Having raised a pet for nine years, there is a level of attachment to that pet that is akin to the feelings parents have for children of theirs. It is not the same, and children trump pets, but the are a close second. 

When something happens to a pet on our property, and we haven't done anything wrong, we should be able to point our finger at a really bad guy, someone who committed a vicious, criminal act against us. The last people we should be pointing our fingers too are cops. 

If there was a shoot out, and our dog was out there and took a bullet, that would be tragic and sad, but we could blame the bad guy in that instance, even if the bullet came from one of the police officer's guns. You have to stop a guy who is firing away indiscriminately. But that wasn't even the case here. 

They did not chase the bad guy through the yard or into the house a couple of doors down -- he wasn't even there. They were not trying to catch someone who was shooting at them or shooting up the neighborhood -- an imminent threat. I am sorry, but I just cannot find a good excuse for the cop eliminating this pet.


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## selzer

harmony said:


> And maybe we know more about dogs then some in their profession, well because this is a dog site. Maybe I should hang my doctor too if he does not know any better about a dog, just saying


Nobody needs a police officer who is so insensitive to the role pets play in the role of the majority of citizens to just shoot them as though it was a clay pigeon. 

What your doctor has to do with the price of rice in China, I have no clue.


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## harmony

selzer said:


> A dog is not equal to a human life in my opinion.
> 
> If my dog was going after a police officer, then I would feel real bad about it, but I would understand the police officer shooting my dog. However, if that police officer was in my yard, or shot into my yard to kill my dog, even though the dog was contained within the yard, and I was not the object of their business on my road, then I would be as angry as a hornet.
> 
> See, I don't think getting yourself in a position so you can raid someone else's home, is a good excuse for killing my dog, that is contained on my property.
> 
> We should feel a level of safety within our homes and on our land. We should be able to take certain measures that will assure the safety of our critters. Critters are not equal to a human life, no, but they are not equal to furniture either. They have personalities, and feelings, and we who own them owe them some level of responsibility. We need to protect them from the big bad world as well as care for their physical needs. Having raised a pet for nine years, there is a level of attachment to that pet that is akin to the feelings parents have for children of theirs. It is not the same, and children trump pets, but the are a close second.
> 
> When something happens to a pet on our property, and we haven't done anything wrong, we should be able to point our finger at a really bad guy, someone who committed a vicious, criminal act against us. The last people we should be pointing our fingers too are cops.
> 
> If there was a shoot out, and our dog was out there and took a bullet, that would be tragic and sad, but we could blame the bad guy in that instance, even if the bullet came from one of the police officer's guns. You have to stop a guy who is firing away indiscriminately. But that wasn't even the case here.
> 
> They did not chase the bad guy through the yard or into the house a couple of doors down -- he wasn't even there. They were not trying to catch someone who was shooting at them or shooting up the neighborhood -- an imminent threat. I am sorry, but I just cannot find a good excuse for the cop eliminating this pet.


I did not see the video, but do u think law would have not done what they had to, to help someone? Never call 911 if u complain about the law plz


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## llombardo

harmony said:


> I did not see the video, but do u think law would have not done what they had to, to help someone? Never call 911 if u complain about the law plz


Who were they helping? The "bad" guy was supposed to be two doors down and he wasn't even there. They see a chain/lock on a gate, they see a bigger dog, and yet they still go into the yard? There was not a lot of common sense used in this situation. I don't think that anyone is complaining about the law, they are complaining about how the law reacted in this situation.


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## harmony

yes I see ur point, but do you know what it feels like to put ur life on the line for others?


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## selzer

harmony said:


> I did not see the video, but do u think law would have not done what they had to, to help someone? Never call 911 if u complain about the law plz


BULL ONY!!!

That puts police officers on GOD status. No way, they are human beings. I pay their salary and I can complain about how they do their job, and I can call them if I need them. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, not gods! They make mistakes and some of them are bad ones. 

To just think that because the police did it, it must be ok, doesn't do anyone any good. It certainly does not do police officers in general any good. 

Being hard on the law would be to say, "what do you expect, darn cops just do whatever they want, they don't have to answer to anyone so they will get away with it, happens all the time." Being hard on the law would also be to say, "if the police did it, I am sure they were correct." The second statement is probably harder because it implies that police officers are right 100% of the time. That is a pretty tough job to be sure. 

No one is being hard on cops in general on this thread. Not that I have seen. People are angry about what _a_ cop did. That is an individual made a bad decision. If you think that you can have thousands of police officers at work in the US, and none of them ever make a bad decision, who is being hard on cops? 

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be outraged when it does happen. And being outraged about something _a _police officer has done, does not mean we should never ever call the cops about anything for the rest of our lives.


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## selzer

harmony said:


> yes I see ur point, but do you know what it feels like to put ur life on the line for others?


That STILL does not give you a free pass to kill people's dogs. I am sorry, but A LOT of people put their lives on the line. Police Officer is NOT one of the top jobs for fatalities. Yes, they do carry guns, and occasionally they do get killed, but so do other people in other professions -- not necessarily the gun toting, but the being killed. Farmers get killed, lumberjacks get killed, miners get killed, factory workers get killed. People get killed on the job sometimes. 

No one is forcing people to become police officers. They WANT to do that job. For whatever reason, they know the risks and they do it anyway. It does not mean that some are not heroes. And, yes they do in general deserve a level of respect. But they should never be given a free pass to do whatever they feel like doing, a free pass that says, they are always right regardless.


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## harmony

selzer said:


> BULL ONY!!!
> 
> That puts police officers on GOD status. No way, they are human beings. I pay their salary and I can complain about how they do their job, and I can call them if I need them. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, not gods! They make mistakes and some of them are bad ones.
> 
> To just think that because the police did it, it must be ok, doesn't do anyone any good. It certainly does not do police officers in general any good.
> 
> Being hard on the law would be to say, "what do you expect, darn cops just do whatever they want, they don't have to answer to anyone so they will get away with it, happens all the time." Being hard on the law would also be to say, "if the police did it, I am sure they were correct." The second statement is probably harder because it implies that police officers are right 100% of the time. That is a pretty tough job to be sure.
> 
> No one is being hard on cops in general on this thread. Not that I have seen. People are angry about what _a_ cop did. That is an individual made a bad decision. If you think that you can have thousands of police officers at work in the US, and none of them ever make a bad decision, who is being hard on cops?
> 
> But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be outraged when it does happen. And being outraged about something _a _police officer has done, does not mean we should never ever call the cops about anything for the rest of our lives.


 yep


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## harmony

selzer said:


> That STILL does not give you a free pass to kill people's dogs. I am sorry, but A LOT of people put their lives on the line. Police Officer is NOT one of the top jobs for fatalities. Yes, they do carry guns, and occasionally they do get killed, but so do other people in other professions -- not necessarily the gun toting, but the being killed. Farmers get killed, lumberjacks get killed, miners get killed, factory workers get killed. People get killed on the job sometimes.
> 
> No one is forcing people to become police officers. They WANT to do that job. For whatever reason, they know the risks and they do it anyway. It does not mean that some are not heroes. And, yes they do in general deserve a level of respect. But they should never be given a free pass to do whatever they feel like doing, a free pass that says, they are always right regardless.


yes!!


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## selzer

........removed by mod............


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## selzer

Or, are you just trying to get me going. Well, I am sorry, but I got other things to do tonight, honey. So have a good evening, and go find someone else who will play.


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## harmony

MY husband was a 4 yr Marines and an army officer  how many people here do more then, more then selves? I have always taking care of my children on my own too!!! I do not think the law is bad just one person that did not know any better.


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## harmony

I am so sorry my eyes hurt and I did not even do what I came here to do, good night


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## Mrs.K

I have been reading quietly for a while... Harmoy, it would be great and I would really appreciate it, if you took the time to actually check your posts before you send them. 

We all know you can spell. Also, you are an adult, sometimes I have the feeling that a seven year old is arguing though. I am not trying to bash you, it is not easy to take you seriously. And what has your husband to do with this?


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## MaggieRoseLee

I'm closing this thread, seems to be spinning a bit out of control.....


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