# Should I Show Varick In The Future?



## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

I've always really liked watching German Shepherd Conformation shows, and I wanted to try showing Harley, just for fun. Now I realize that this is impossible due to his Fear Aggression. Also, aren't males supposed to be intact? 'Cause Harley's neutered. (Maybe it's different for 4-H shows/Junior shows?) 
Since I cannot show Harley, I was thinking that I would like to show Varick! His pedigree shows German show line dogs with VA titles, and the DDR working dogs have V titles. (Though this may not matter for certain shows.) I will probably be showing with the 4-H club. 

-Could I get some Junior Showmanship information? 
-If anybody knows what to expect from a 4-H dog show, could you give me a description? 
-What do you think of the idea of showing Varick?

Here is his pedigree: Varick vom Haus Jeffery


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## Kdrees (Nov 25, 2012)

Our 4h only does dog obedience at county fair and that is about it - they do showmanship but you are only judged with how you handle and show your dog and the dog itself is not judged. There is no just showing your dog like you see on TV. Here, they are not required to be intact or have any kind of papers - just have to be a dog and have current vaccinations. If you are looking at 4h I would contact you local extension or club and if you are already in 4h you leader would should also be a wealth if info.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Kdrees said:


> Our 4h only does dog obedience at county fair and that is about it - they do showmanship but you are only judged with how you handle and show your dog and the dog itself is not judged. There is no just showing your dog like you see on TV. Here, they are not required to be intact or have any kind of papers - just have to be a dog and have current vaccinations. If you are looking at 4h I would contact you local extension or club and if you are already in 4h you leader would should also be a wealth if info.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App


Hmm. That is not at all what I thought it was. I would rather have my _dog _judged. I willl contact the local Extension Center though, to find out more. Thanks! 
*How about an SV show? I'm just worried that they don't have them held near me.*


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## ponyfarm (Apr 11, 2010)

Here is a link with some information on shows.
USCA - Club Events


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

To do an SV show you need the full AKC registration certificate, the 4-generation AKC certified pedigree, permanent ID (tattoo or microchip), and depending on what organization hosts the show you may be required to be a member.

SV shows also have Junior showmanship but like 4H you earn points based on how many dogs YOU show, not how well the dog does.


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## Andaka (Jun 29, 2003)

What has made you decie you want to show in conformation?

What prompted you to buy Varick? Did you know he was mixed lines when you bought him? Did you buy him as a show dog or as a performance dog?


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Liesje said:


> To do an SV show you need the full AKC registration certificate, the 4-generation AKC certified pedigree, permanent ID (tattoo or microchip), and depending on what organization hosts the show you may be required to be a member.
> 
> SV shows also have Junior showmanship but like 4H you earn points based on how many dogs YOU show, not how well the dog does.


 Yes, I do have the AKC registration certificate, the 4-generation AKC pedigree and he is microchipped (and I do have his microchip number). So what, either way the dog isn't really judged? That doesn't really sound like a dog show to me....but then again, I don't know much about conformation.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

ponyfarm said:


> Here is a link with some information on shows.
> USCA - Club Events


Thanks!


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Andaka said:


> What has made you decie you want to show in conformation?
> 
> What prompted you to buy Varick? Did you know he was mixed lines when you bought him? Did you buy him as a show dog or as a performance dog?


 I have been interested ever since I got Harley (my first GSD), which wasn't actually much too long ago. I became interested in structure as well as temperament of the GSD. 
I bought him as a performance dog (SchH), and yes, I knew he had mixed lines. Is this a problem for showing? Can you only show pure lines? If showing will interfere with working, then I won't show. I just thought it would be an exciting experience.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

You can find nearby USCA or WDA shows. But be warned that if you want to be involved in dog sports and competition, you must be willing to travel. I would not be so keen to stay close when you are looking for venues, shows or trials. It will limit your options.

You can show in SV conformation shows. But be warned, you will not be placed high. For one, SV conformation tends to move working dogs to the back. Unless you have a working dog with structure that conforms to the ideal in the conformation ring, you will not be able to place very highly with a working dog in a ring of show lines. (To the contradictors: Yes, WL can show well, but I am speaking generally and with OP's dog in mind) Additionally, crosses are usually not that well received since there tends to be a bias against them in both the show and working worlds. The dog does not have a known pedigree (parents are not actively worked, shown or bred) - that makes it a little more difficult for him to place high. 

His structure right now is ok, but he is a pup still so he might improve as he develops and matures. You *can* show in SV shows, but be aware that in the classes, you will probably not place as high as the other dogs being presented. If this is not an issue for you and you just want the experience, that is fine and you should go for it. But just go into it knowing the reality of the situation.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> You can find nearby USCA or WDA shows. But be warned that if you want to be involved in dog sports and competition, you must be willing to travel. I would not be so keen to stay close when you are looking for venues, shows or trials. It will limit your options.
> 
> You can show in SV conformation shows. But be warned, you will not be placed high. For one, SV conformation tends to move working dogs to the back. Unless you have a working dog with structure that conforms to the ideal in the conformation ring, you will not be able to place very highly with a working dog in a ring of show lines. (To the contradictors: Yes, WL can show well, but I am speaking generally and with OP's dog in mind) Additionally, crosses are usually not that well received since there tends to be a bias against them in both the show and working worlds. The dog does not have a known pedigree (parents are not actively worked, shown or bred) - that makes it a little more difficult for him to place high.
> 
> His structure right now is ok, but he is a pup still so he might improve as he develops and matures. You *can* show in SV shows, but be aware that in the classes, you will probably not place as high as the other dogs being presented. If this is not an issue for you and you just want the experience, that is fine and you should go for it. But just go into it knowing the reality of the situation.


 That is all the information I needed, and I'm glad to have a straight-forward answer. I mainly just wanted to put a show title on him, but I would love to do this just for experience. 
Thanks!


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> Yes, I do have the AKC registration certificate, the 4-generation AKC pedigree and he is microchipped (and I do have his microchip number). So what, either way the dog isn't really judged? That doesn't really sound like a dog show to me....but then again, I don't know much about conformation.


Yes the dog is judge but your post mentioned Junior showmanship. In SV I believe the Juniors can earn points for themselves, as well as however the dog is placed (these dogs are in the same classes as the others, there's no special class or placement for Junior handlers). The same is true for UKC, if I use a Junior handler I list her on my entry so that counts towards her Junior showmanship. I'm honestly not sure what happens after that since I never showed as a Junior, I've only used them to show my dogs.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

HarleyTheGSD said:


> That is all the information I needed, and I'm glad to have a straight-forward answer. I mainly just wanted to put a show title on him, but I would love to do this just for experience.
> Thanks!


No problem. You can put a show rating (titles are for working accomplishments) on him. I bet he will get a "P" (promising - highest is VP very promising) in puppy class and a "G" rating (Good rating - higher ratings are SG very good V excellent or VA excellent select) in young adult and adult classes. Maybe higher if the judge is nice and knows you are doing it for fun.


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## phgsd (Jun 6, 2004)

Also - see if there are any training clubs/groups in your area that do ring training. You don't just want to show up on the day of the show with no training. Some judges are really NASTY when the dog is obviously not ring trained. And even if they seem understanding, it still puts a bad taste in their mouths for working line dogs.


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## qbchottu (Jul 10, 2011)

Agree with phgsd. Get him used to being in a stack, holding a position, getting messed with by strangers, getting his ears/feet/testicles checked, going around in a ring, looking for you with his head up, not spinning/goofing off or sniffing the ground, pulling and gaiting well. A good club with show experience will teach you how to do it right. 

I am reminded of a recent experience with an unruly pup with little to no show training. Handling her was a nightmare. While putting the collar on, she got me in the nose and gave me a nasty nosebleed. While in the ring, she would spin around and bounce - don't think I saw her gait once. Forget stacking her lol. Judge was not pleased 

Her litter sister with experience showed well and did what was expected of her. Of course the sister was placed first!


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## FlyAway (Jul 17, 2012)

The UKC is a good place to get your feet wet, so to speak, in conformation. It's a bit friendlier and much more relaxed than the AKC. They have some big shows in MO, also. AKC Open Shows, while few and far between, are very relaxed and sometimes have a handling seminar before the show. However, you should get a couple of hands on "showing" lessons well before the show date. Open shows don't give Championship points, but give Certificate of Merit Points, instead. 

http://www.akc.org/events/search/in...active_tab_row=1&active_tab_col=1&fixed_tab=1

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Upcoming.nsf/EventView?Open&Group=DogEvents&Type=E


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## Snickelfritz (Feb 21, 2007)

I used to show obedience and conformation in 4-H. It's true that they judge you more than the dog, but it's the best I think for learning how to move in a ring. You'll get so much experience if you ever want to go professional or even semi-professional.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

qbchottu said:


> Agree with phgsd. Get him used to being in a stack, holding a position, getting messed with by strangers, getting his ears/feet/testicles checked, going around in a ring, looking for you with his head up, not spinning/goofing off or sniffing the ground, pulling and gaiting well. A good club with show experience will teach you how to do it right.
> 
> I am reminded of a recent experience with an unruly pup with little to no show training. Handling her was a nightmare. While putting the collar on, she got me in the nose and gave me a nasty nosebleed. While in the ring, she would spin around and bounce - don't think I saw her gait once. Forget stacking her lol. Judge was not pleased
> 
> Her litter sister with experience showed well and did what was expected of her. Of course the sister was placed first!


 Well then it would probably be best if I started showing with 4-H first. The teachers will help me with the basics of showing and training for the show ring.


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## HarleyTheGSD (Feb 13, 2012)

Snickelfritz said:


> I used to show obedience and conformation in 4-H. It's true that they judge you more than the dog, but it's the best I think for learning how to move in a ring. You'll get so much experience if you ever want to go professional or even semi-professional.


 I think I will try showing with 4-H first. You're right, I will get a lot of experience that may be good for future reference. The officers will go through all of the basics with me. I will attend a meeting first and ask some questions, to see if this is really something I want to do. 
Thanks!


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