# The Ban debate (BSL).



## misslesleedavis1

Alright, im on the fence about the ban, i dont know if i support it or not, part of me sees a child on tv torn to shreds and dead because of a so called Pitbull attack and i think "holy crap thats disgusting..eww Pitbulls" then the rest of the story shines thru and its always the same "un neutured male pitbull wearing a 4 inch spike collar blah blah blah" and i think well jeeze look at the type of owner that is. Then i see pitbulls in tutu's sleeping beside baby ducks and i think "aweeee what a cutie!!", i cant find a reason to support the antiban or be on board with it, i dont dislike them infact my bestie has a 13 year old pitbull he has been thru 5 children and never has had one incident Trippy is amazing, smart calm and loving, then again jen got him thru her friends that had the parents and also had the grandparents, they were all good natured dogs that were taken care of. 

Frankly its not as if the ban has worked, we took tyson to his last ob class months ago and afterwards the trainer has a dog social thing she does and on our way out we met a young pittbull, angry growling the owner had it muzzled and was screaming stand back at everyone, not to mention the countless pittbulls that make it thru rescues all the time here. 

So, as of right now i dont have a solid opinion on the ban..i know i dont dislike any breed but im not on board with the whole "always the owners " default statement (and that is for every breed) ..

What does everyone else think?


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## SuperG

Are you talking about the BSL ( breed specific legislation ) at a nationwide level or the recent pit bull attacks in MS. which has generated some discussions to ban the breed in certain counties?

If I have to vote one way or the other...I'd vote to make the penalties on the owner of the dog much more severe....especially if if there is a track record of attacks on humans or neglect by the owner to maintain/contain the dog in a secured area. However, if individuals are getting attacked by going over a fence or on private property etc...that's an entirely different situation.


SuperG


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## misslesleedavis1

BSL should have been more specific. Im in ontario, not sure how many states also utilize the BSL.

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## shepherdmom

My state just passed a law banning all BSL. So I'm really happy with that. Lots of breeds have issues and problems. Including our GSD breed. Legislation won't fix the problems IMO.


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## Amurphy26

This debate always angers people but like you I'm not sure where I stand on banning breeds. Pit bulls have been banned in the UK for a number of years now but there are still dog attacks in the news all the time. I think one of the most recent child deaths was from a malamute. There are breeds who have been bred to kill and breeders and owners who specifically look for that trait. I think in the majority of cases the owner is at fault. Having said that I don't want to be more wary of pit bull types or staffies (they replaced the pit bull in popularity when pits were banned) but I am. I think it's knowing the damage they could do.

In Scotland there was a recent campaign which said they wanted all large breed dogs to be muzzled when outside. That's just ludicrous and thankfully is very unlikely to happen.


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## selzer

When I read some of the numbers of fatal attacks by pitbulls, and the grievous injuries, there is a part of me that sympathizes with those who want to ban them. 

Owners need to be more responsible when they own breeds that are capable of doing serious damage. And it just seems like over and over and over again, the owners fail. 

Shepherd owners have to get on their people too. We shouldn't be so understanding when dogs get out of the yard, or when they threaten the mailman, when they chew on kids. We need to start pounding on people to keep their dogs contained, to manage their dogs properly, to train their dogs, etc. 

Because there are pit bulls out there, GSDs look almost tame. But if they get rid of the pits. Then it will be Rotties and GSDs and Mals that appear to have lots more serious bites, injuries, deaths than other breeds. Because those graphs can be perfectly true and correct, but can be manipulated to look terrible.

Owners have to get smart. If owners can't be smart, then someone has to protect the public. EVERY bite, every loose dog, every attack on livestock, every attack on another dog is really, really bad for all of us. 

If they ban a dog breed or dogs over a certain weight, or whatever, I would hope that they would grandfather in existing dogs, given they are altered or become altered within so many days, and they are properly registered and licensed.


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## Nigel

Unfortunately, too many pit bulls end up in the hands of idiots. A dog with the potential to cause severe injuries/death needs an owner who takes this seriously and sadly few do. I've never owned one, but those owned by friends are well behaved, good ambassadors of the breed, but they are in the minority, at least in my area.


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## llombardo

I'm against any kind of bans. I don't have a problem with any breed, my problem lays with the people who get certain breeds and use that breed for not so good things. It's very rare that we will hear good things about pit bulls, so of course they come off as a vicious breed. The reality of it is that there are so many pit bulls or "mixes" that even though the number for attacks by them seem high, it's not because if how many there are. For example a local animal shelter has 1500 dogs, 95% of those are pit bulls, all tested and ready for a home. I was just talking to a vet tech that had a beautiful pit bull puppy, the pup is 10 weeks old. She was dropped off at the clinic at two weeks old because the owner didn't know that pit bulls could have female puppies and they didn't want any females, those are the kind of people that shouldn't own any dog.


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## llombardo

selzer said:


> If they ban a dog breed or dogs over a certain weight, or whatever, I would hope that they would grandfather in existing dogs, given they are altered or become altered within so many days, and they are properly registered and licensed.


It doesn't happen this way... I watched the attached video once and that enough for me


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## glowingtoadfly

I am anti BSL. In my city, the pound is full of pitbulls and more are euthanized every day. It is horrible. CL is also full of people trying to sell puppies and rehome them. I had one abandoned in my backyard at my old residence. He was a friendly boy. The neigbor's three pitbulls attacked him and he was all cut up. I had to call the pound, I couldn't keep him as I had five kitties living in my house and an anti pitbull roommate. He still haunts me. He was the sweetest boy. I wish I would have called some friends to see if they could foster, but I was panicked from the dogfight. The boy wasn't aggressive at all to the other dogs. I had to spray my neigbor's dog with a hose to get him off the poor, skinny pup. He was probably euthanized.


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## Cara Fusinato

> She was dropped off at the clinic at two weeks old because the owner didn't know that pit bulls could have female puppies and they didn't want any females, those are the kind of people that shouldn't own any dog.


Jeez. What did they think gave birth to the little female pittie?

Interestingly, the sheltie folk are discussing this exact same issue and exact same referenced story (the little girl out of Canada last week). MS too, huh? I type med records for Children's Los Angeles and hear the damage. I live near Fresno (stupid capital of the US -- no seriously, we officially made the top of the list) and I can't take either of my dogs anyplace, Petsmart, a walking trail, a park, our national forest, outside my house for fear of pitbull attack.

I don't want to see a ban, but I don't want to see these fighting line pitties in Petsmart either. I have livestock and we have some nearby pot growers with 2 roaming pits. They menace the horse on the property between us. I don't want them to find my llamas/goats. 

I would like to see owners penalized a whole lot more. How do you penalize poor people who bit off more than they could chew (literally) when they got the free pup at the flea market? 

When are people going to realize taking animals bred to kill, breeding them further to snap at anything any time, and then taking the animal in your home with your kids just shouldn't be done?


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## selzer

The video would have been better without the music and the fading in and out of the pictures -- that was hard on my eyes, and irritating to try to read while the music was going, but worried that they might start speaking so I couldn't turn the music off. 

In any case, I know that some places have banned without grandfathering in existing dogs. That is why I mentioned it. I think something should be done. Too many serious attacks are happening. People are not being responsible with their dogs. What they ought to do about it, I really don't know. The thugs that own the dogs don't have anything to lose, so they aren't going to bother being responsible. The rest of the owners of these dogs suffer because of how they appeal to thugs. 

I don't like the breed, and I will never own one; but I know that there are people out there that feel the same way about GSDs. I do not want them banned. But I think that something needs to be done. I am not against breed-specific legislation. If you have a breed that is responsible for 73% of the damage to children and 87% of the damage to adults, then, I think requiring owners of such a breed to hold an insurance policy covering the dogs, having containment that meets certain specifications, ensuring that they do not have any convictions for animal cruelty/dog fighting, ensuring they can pass a basic ownership test that spells out the related laws and possible consequences of what could happen if their dog attacks someone makes sense. 

I mean, if you go and buy a shot gun no one is going to make you pass a test. But if you want to carry a concealed handgun than you do need a permit and be able to display that you understand the laws with respect to carrying. 

At the end of the day, it is easier to ban the dog breed than it is to set up anything with regards to improving the safety by enforcing responsible ownership of the dogs. 

And I understand the slippery slope. The dog-hating gargoyles won't stop with pit bulls, they will expand it to cover all the bully breeds, and then they will start in on the mastiff-breeds and working/protection/guarding/herding breeds. 

Just like some people feel that only police and military need to have guns, people will also feel that only police and military should own formidable dogs. 

And so, when I hear about people letting their dog go down the street on its own to play with the neighbor kids, or when I hear about people letting their dog send four separate people to the hospital for stitches, I don't mince words. But it seems like the rest of the dog-owners just don't see it as a big deal. And others want to avoid anything that looks remotely close to BSL, because they feel that then they will be safe. Personally, I do not think this it true. It is not BSL to ban dogs over 40 pounds. And then we have a lot more dogs in shelters being euthanized, only they just don't all look like pits. But we can all say, that won't happen here.


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## Baillif

There are some bully breed dogs out there with great temperments. Im watching one play in the yard with the rest of the board and train dogs. BSL is basically taking a sledge hammer to a situation that was better fixed with a scalpel. There are plenty of dogs out there some of them GSDs where drowning them in a bucket would have done the world and the breed a favor.


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## glowingtoadfly

In my city, there is a proper containment law for pitbulls. In my opinion, all that does is keep dogs like Fi, (that is the name someone shaved into the abandoned puppy's side, so that's what I call him) out of good homes that don't have the containment. I also had a downstairs neighbor who got a pitbull puppy, then had the landlord decide she couldn't stay because she was a pit. The neighbor called the pound and said she found her. The puppy was probably euthanized. More homes = a good thing.


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## Vagus

Pits are 'banned' here in NZ, and honestly I still see more of them (and their mixes) than any other breed. Of course, they just get labelled as staffies. Sadly, they do attract a certain kind of individual - individuals who have no business owning a plant, let alone a domesticated carnivore. They make the news constantly for toddler attacks, and as someone who is repeatedly charged and hassled by aggressive pits, I still do not support BSL. While I have an appreciation for the impact genetics has on temperament, I still think responsibility should be put entirely on the owner. Management, fencing, muzzles, whatever. I always keep this in mind - when the pits and rotties fall to BSL, guess who's next  GSDs can be aggressive, but there exist plenty who are totally fine. I imagine it's the same with any other breed, so I'd rather they not all get slammed with a ban hammer due to a few bad apples and irresponsible owners.


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## misslesleedavis1

Baillif said:


> There are some bully breed dogs out there with great temperments. Im watching one play in the yard with the rest of the board and train dogs. BSL is basically taking a sledge hammer to a situation that was better fixed with a scalpel. There are plenty of dogs out there some of them GSDs where drowning them in a bucket would have done the world and the breed a favor.


Well that is why im pretty much all ??? about how i feel. Like i said Jenns dog Trippy is amazing, he is old now but my goodness never once had any issue with him..and plenty more are like him, its just like one idiot breeding a unstable mess then selling the puppies to crazy morons that have no clue how to handle issues. Then you have a time bomb waiting to happen in the hands of another time bomb.

My fiance was attacked by a rescue dog that we allowed to have one stop over, he was found roaming te streets of south oshawa (real terrible town) when he arrived he was clearly a bully breed dog, he ended up trying to pick a fight with dexter thru a door and then turned on andrew and ripped his arm to shreds even went as far as to try to eat thru the bathroom door to get to him. I think he should have been drowned at birth (horrible i know) but pointless big stupid vicious dog he was. That incident did not shape the way i felt about bully breeds but it sure opened my eyes to just how quick a unstable hot mess could turn violent. 


I dont think that there is a clear solution to the problem but proper education would help alot when it comes to certain breeds, and if rescues are taking certain "dangerous dog breeds" they should have a specific group of experianced handlers take them or just ship them off to breed specific rescues, like the german shep rescue, or the border collie rescue...they know what they are doing because that is all they focus on.


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## gsdsar

I am against breed bans. 

I am not a fan of Pits or similar breeds. They are horribly overbred, horribly bred, often owned by the wrong type if people. The attacks I hear the most about are NOT drug lord owned guard dogs. They are family pets. The grandfather killed by the 2 house pet Pitbulls comes to mind. 

My largest concern with them is the potential for serious injury and death that they cause when they do go bad. A chihuahua attacks me, eh get a bandaid, a Pit type dog does and I am in the hospital. 

I also take issue with so many pit bull supporters who seem oblivious to their potential. Like they can't fathom that any member of the breed they love could be dangerous. And that to me is more dangerous. 

But some of my favorite dogs are Pits. So I take them on a case by case basis. I can like individual dogs without liking their breed. 


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## llombardo

gsdsar said:


> My largest concern with them is the potential for serious injury and death that they cause when they do go bad. A chihuahua attacks me, eh get a bandaid, a Pit type dog does and I am in the hospital.
> 
> 
> 
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Chihuahua's can be vicious and I have seen people end up with severe bites from them. They are the second most popular breed at the animal shelter next to the pit bulls. I would take a pit bull over a chihuahua anyday and I have owned a chihuahua before.


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## sparra

A Chihuahua is not going to kill you ......I think that was the point.
I agree with gsdsar.......when they decide to attack they do an extraordinary amount of damage in a very short space of time.
Also agree that avid pittbull supporters are in la la land over the state of their breed. Until they admit they have issues it is not going to get any better.


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## Sarah~

I am against BSL. Once all of the bully breeds are gone, the same people that have given them the bad reputation that they have will move on to the next breed. The dogs are not the problem, the people are.


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## Amurphy26

I'll never forget an old couple that I used to live near who had a massive American Bulldog. I remember watching them trying to walk him and it was awful. He was quite young (I saw him from about 6 mths old) but an accident waiting to happen. They wouldn't let him off the lead, didn't do any training or socialising with him and as a result the dog was incredibly frustrated. They would come to the public parks and just walk up and down the outskirts of the park. The dog would start pulling towards other dogs and people and pulled them over on more than one occasion; they were both in their early 70's. So what do you think they did?

They went out and got another American Bulldog pup! 

They might of been very nice people but they should never have owned a dog of that size that they couldn't control. Never mind two of them and a responsible breeder wouldn't of sold the pups to them.




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## LaRen616

I am against banning any breed.

It doesn't matter if the dog is large or small, a working breed or a toy breed, any breed can and will bite whether they are aggressive, scared or are being provoked by someone. 

If we agree to ban the pitbull, then GSDs, Dobermans and Rottweilers will be next and all we will be left with are Poodles, Labs and Golden Retrievers and I am NOT ok with that.

My nephew's face was badly bitten by a pitbull but I do not have any hatred towards the breed.

My cousin was severly mauled by a Bullmastiff but I do not have any hatred towards the breed.

My other cousin got her face bit by a Cocker Spaniel but I do not have any hatred towards the breed.

I was bitten on my arm and still have the scars from a Springer Spaniel but I do not have any hatred for the breed.


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## sparra

I don't agree with the GSD will be next argument. These dogs are getting banned cause of the damage they do when they do attack people......get away alive and your lucky......that's why they are getting banned.
They don't just bite.....they are killing/maiming people on a regular basis......I don't see the GSD doing that....at least not over here.


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## Sarah~

I can see them being next, pits are so widely available, if they're gone people will just start mass breeding something else. Shepherds are pretty popular already, the same people raising out of control pit bulls will raise out of control shepherds. And they aren't just prone to DA I'd say they're even more prone to HA than a pit.


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## LaRen616

sparra said:


> I don't agree with the GSD will be next argument. These dogs are getting banned cause of the damage they do when they do attack people......get away alive and your lucky......that's why they are getting banned.
> They don't just bite.....they are killing/maiming people on a regular basis......I don't see the GSD doing that....at least not over here.


GSDs can kill people and they have, we have heard stories here in the US about it. It does happen, yes the pitbull can inflict more damage with a bite but both breeds can and have killed people.


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## LaRen616

10 Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | The Most 10 Of Everything

Here in the US some home owner's insurances will not insure you if you have a GSD. Some places will not rent to you if you have a GSD.

If you ban 1 aggressive dog breed then you open the door to banning more.


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## sparra

LaRen616 said:


> GSDs can kill people and they have, we have heard stories here in the US about it. It does happen, yes the pitbull can inflict more damage with a bite but both breeds can and have killed people.


I didn't say they haven't killed people .....they just don't do it every week........


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## llombardo

LaRen616 said:


> 10 Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | The Most 10 Of Everything
> 
> Here in the US some home owner's insurances will not insure you if you have a GSD. Some places will not rent to you if you have a GSD.
> 
> If you ban 1 aggressive dog breed then you open the door to banning more.


And when I called about insurance pit bull and german shepherd were the first mentioned


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## Gwenhwyfair

I'm on the fence on regarding BSL too.

To tag off of what Sparra is saying, while GSDs do bite and cause harm they don't cause as much damage nor as frequently. So the downside to the slippery slope argument is our breed will get lumped in undeservedly with a breed that is more prone to problems. 

On the other hand I don't know that BSL will solve anything either.

Pitbulls/pittie types have SO much baggage. In urban areas there's sheer overpopulation. Then there's the idiot rescues calling them 'baby sitters', encouraging people to feel sorry for them and making it their life mission to save these dogs even if some are really too dangerous and shouldn't be saved. :crazy: Then there's the idiot BYBs breeding these dogs in addition to those who actually do select and breed for dog fighting and aggression. Those dogs end up running loose on the streets as well.

It's a huge mess and while GSDs have their problems, in urban areas pitties crowd the shelters to the max.

So IMO, pitbulls and the problems they bring to the table are unique to them and then all the 'do gooders' are creating the unintended consequence of making the problems worse. I don't like our breed getting dragged into all of that......

I'd like to see pitbulls become far less popular and have fewer people trying to 'save' them and maybe this whole cycle would die down....

I do my little bit by educating people when I can and telling them pitties are NOT easy dogs they require work and training.


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## llombardo

It is a numbers game. If there were as many german shepherds as pit bulls the bite/attack numbers would be higher for GSD's because those that can't get a pit will move on to GSD's, rotts and dobes. So it will fall on those people that shouldn't own any dog...

"The increase in population of large dogs has resulted in an increased severity of bites. German shepherds were identified as the breed involved in 44% of all bite cases but accounted for only 22% of license registrations. Small purebred dogs accounted for less than 20% of bites but more than 40% of registrations."


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## Gwenhwyfair

GSDs were ranked as the second most popular breed in 2013, labs were number 1. GSDs have been consistently in at least the top 5 per the AKC for many, many years. It also follows if there is a larger number of registered dogs there will be a larger number of unregistered dogs of that breed (BYBs cashing in on the popularity and such). That's why I mentioned in 'urban' areas with the pitties too. Pittie populations seem to trend with those demographics.

For this reason I don't think the total number of pitts outnumbers GSDs. 

Also proportionally you have to look at which breed causes the *most* damage in an attack. I've seen multiple reports showing even when broken out as % of dog population pitties cause more severe injuries then other breeds.

I know some view all attacks as equal but I think that is an incorrect way to look at it. I don't like it that small dogs can bite and get away with it but because they are small they cause far less damage when they bite and *rarily* cause serious damage to a person. So while some argue that doesn't make it right from a moral standard, from a who has to go to the emergency room standard it does matter and should IMO.

If you look at the chart in this report you'll see that pitbulls are at the top even though they represent a smaller portion of the dog population overall.

Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 31, 2013 - By Merritt Clifton - DogsBite.org









llombardo said:


> It is a numbers game. If there were as many german shepherds as pit bulls the bite/attack numbers would be higher for GSD's because those that can't get a pit will move on to GSD's, rotts and dobes. So it will fall on those people that shouldn't own any dog...
> 
> "The increase in population of large dogs has resulted in an increased severity of bites. German shepherds were identified as the breed involved in 44% of all bite cases but accounted for only 22% of license registrations. Small purebred dogs accounted for less than 20% of bites but more than 40% of registrations."


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## llombardo

I disagree that GSD's outnumber pits. GSD's might be the number two registered dog but pit bulls probably outnumber them by at least double. Trying to find a dog that is not put or pit mixed is not easy.


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## Blanketback

This is how our provincial ban reads:
“pit bull” includes,
(a) a pit bull terrier,
(b) a Staffordshire bull terrier,
(c) an American Staffordshire terrier,
(d) an American pit bull terrier,
(e) *a dog that has an appearance and physical characteristics that are substantially similar to those of dogs referred to in any of clauses* (a) to (d); (“pit-bull”)

Taken from: https://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90d16_e.htm#BK10 

So that would include bull terriers, any bulldogs crosses, any boxer mixes, etc: anything that would _resemble_ what isn't even an actual breed? Of course I disagree with that, lol! It would be like saying wolf crosses are illegal, and anything with erect ears has to go. This might add to the numbers being so high, if so many different breed crosses are tallied up under the "pit bull" category.


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## glowingtoadfly

llombardo said:


> I disagree that GSD's outnumber pits. GSD's might be the number two registered dog but pit bulls probably outnumber them by at least double. Trying to find a dog that is not put or pit mixed is not easy.


Definitely in my city, pits are more prevalent than any other breed. In my old neigborhood, every third dog out walking was a pitbull or cross.


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## LaRen616

glowingtoadfly said:


> Definitely in my city, pits are more prevalent than any other breed. In my old neigborhood, every third dog out walking was a pitbull or cross.


 
My whole neighborhood has pitbulls, they are everywhere and they make up the majority of the dogs in the shelters in my area.


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## glowingtoadfly

The pound is mostly pitbulls here too, and there are always many at the humane society.


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## Nigel

llombardo said:


> I disagree that GSD's outnumber pits. GSD's might be the number two registered dog but pit bulls probably outnumber them by at least double. Trying to find a dog that is not put or pit mixed is not easy.


I agree, pit bulls by far out number gsds here, pitbull are probably #2 around here, right behind chihuahuas (most chi's shipped up from Cali) most PB are sold by BYBs or picked up for free and are never registered in any way shape or form.


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## misslesleedavis1

So I guess there is no solution, any idiot can own a dog regardless of the breed. Like I said before the ban has not stopped them its just been dragged underground and some rescues will fight tooth and nail to pull them into province as lab mixes or what not. They may as well not have a ban, maybe not having a ban would help the breed in general get back on track? It would be like banning sheps, those byb's would pump them out as shepx but the reputable breeders would be forced to stop.

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## llombardo

Nigel said:


> I agree, pit bulls by far out number gsds here, pitbull are probably #2 around here, right behind chihuahuas (most chi's shipped up from Cali) most PB are sold by BYBs or picked up for free and are never registered in any way shape or form.


Oddly enough pit bulls and chihuahuas are the top two in shelters and euthanized here. People think chihuahuas are these tiny helpless little doggies, but they bite too. All it takes is for the bite to be in the right place from any dog and it can be serious.


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## Blanketback

I would like it if the owner was held _completely_ responsible for their dog's actions. I think if people were forced to deal with the consequences then they might think twice before acquiring a dog that's too much for them in the first place. Just taking their dogs away isn't really teaching the owners anything, if something does happen. They just get another one.


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## LaRen616

llombardo said:


> Oddly enough pit bulls and chihuahuas are the top two in shelters and euthanized here. People think chihuahuas are these tiny helpless little doggies, but they bite too. All it takes is for the bite to be in the right place from any dog and it can be serious.


Pitbulls and Chihuahua mixes make up the majority of the dogs at my local animal shelter.

Safe Harbor Humane Society - Available Dogs


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## misslesleedavis1

Blanketback said:


> I would like it if the owner was held _completely_ responsible for their dog's actions. I think if people were forced to deal with the consequences then they might think twice before acquiring a dog that's too much for them in the first place. Just taking their dogs away isn't really teaching the owners anything, if something does happen. They just get another one.


Thats just it, they never are held to any responsibility! Removing a dog that has hurt a child is the easy way for the owner, like a burden that has been lifted. 

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## Blanketback

Yup. And if you read GatorBytes' thread, she has to actually sue the negligent owners to recoup what she's lost - and that's just the initial monetary aspect. That's ridiculous.


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## llombardo

Blanketback said:


> Yup. And if you read GatorBytes' thread, she has to actually sue the negligent owners to recoup what she's lost - and that's just the initial monetary aspect. That's ridiculous.


Sadly the people she is dealing with don't sound like the kind that care if they have a judgment against them and chances if her seeing any monetary compensation is slim to none.


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## Blanketback

That's terrific, isn't it? Just get a dog that you already know is going to cause a problem, let it dash out the door and attack other dogs, bite people in the process, and then shrug your shoulders? Crap!


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## misslesleedavis1

Blanketback said:


> Yup. And if you read GatorBytes' thread, she has to actually sue the negligent owners to recoup what she's lost - and that's just the initial monetary aspect. That's ridiculous.


I would be going right after the rescue throat on that one. Thats a whole other issue in itself, some rescues blatantly defying laws because they think they need to stand up for pitbulls, if I had a dollar for everytime a rescue has dragged a bully mix thru the province I would probably be able to pay my bills for the next few months. Its bloody stupid. Ignore a neglected dog in your own backyard to rescue a pitbull with no known history from freakn Georgia. 

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## Blanketback

It's still the owner's fault, in my eyes. Rescues can take whatever dogs they want to - as long as they're honest when they rehome them. Why is a dog like that living in a home where it's chained in the front yard in the first place? How stupid is that?!


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## llombardo

Blanketback said:


> That's terrific, isn't it? Just get a dog that you already know is going to cause a problem, let it dash out the door and attack other dogs, bite people in the process, and then shrug your shoulders? Crap!


To be fair I think that someone visiting let the dog out on accident. They didn't do it in purpose, but they still should not let a dog with issues near a door where it can dart out


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## misslesleedavis1

Blanketback said:


> It's still the owner's fault, in my eyes. Rescues can take whatever dogs they want to - as long as they're honest when they rehome them. Why is a dog like that living in a home where it's chained in the front yard in the first place? How stupid is that?!


Were they the owners or the fosters? Its not smart on anyone's part but its not like the rescue did not get the memo. It was a bad and dangerous move. Rescues typically do the home work on adopters and fosters. 

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## Blanketback

There's always a convenient excuse: so what if someone let the dog out? Secure the front door, deny access - do what you have to do to manage the dog - OR don't take it in the first place. It's so simple.


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## llombardo

Blanketback said:


> There's always a convenient excuse: so what if someone let the dog out? Secure the front door, deny access - do what you have to do to manage the dog - OR don't take it in the first place. It's so simple.


It is, but even I who am in top if it have had dogs slip out. Some dogs are opportunist and just wait for a chance. My oldest snuck out when family was leaving. It scared the heck out if me, she ran for the busy street. My family never moved so fast on foot and in car. A couple months ago Midnite snuck right past me and walked ever do slowly to the tree to pee, I held my breath and followed him slowly until I grabbed him while he was peeing. He looked at me like all I wanted to do is pee.


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## misslesleedavis1

New story in barrie about a man who just got his pitbull seized, it got out and did nothing wrong but it was taken because they are not legal, now who's fault is that? Simply the owner for even owning the dog in the first place, he knew he was in the wrong when he got it as a puppy, now the dog who is at no fault faces being shipped out of Province or being euthd 

He was roaming the streets family said he got out 

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## Blanketback

Man's pit bull seized | Barrie Examiner

That's really sad, but the thing is EVERYONE in Ontario knows about DOLA, and the "pit bull" ban. My brother's sweet dog, who just passed at 14, had to be muzzled in public - because it was the law.

ETA: and that Barrie dog is a perfect example of 'what _exactly_ is a pit bull?' because to me it could be an AmBull cross.


----------



## misslesleedavis1

Yep but he chose to go against the law. No fault of the dog but sure it will face the punishment, which is sad. 

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## Blanketback

It really is sad. I felt extremely sorry for the breeders of the banned breeds too, when DOLA was introduced. Nobody compensated them when they told them their Staffies and whatnot were now illegal. Pure BS, in my opinion.


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## GatorBytes

Blanketback said:


> That's terrific, isn't it? Just get a dog that you already know is going to cause a problem, let it dash out the door and attack other dogs, bite people in the process, and then shrug your shoulders? Crap!


 The sad thing is this wasn't isolated incident....as he said - dog took off but only went three doors down, next time he ran to corner where the golden lives but he didn't attack it.



misslesleedavis1 said:


> I would be going right after the rescue throat on that one. Thats a whole other issue in itself, some rescues blatantly defying laws because they think they need to stand up for pitbulls, if I had a dollar for everytime a rescue has dragged a bully mix thru the province I would probably be able to pay my bills for the next few months. Its bloody stupid. Ignore a neglected dog in your own backyard to rescue a pitbull with no known history from freakn Georgia.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


 Still don't know if there is an actual "rescue" involved or if they "rescued" from montreal (Quebec, next province over for those not from Canada)

Could all be lie they tell people



Blanketback said:


> It's still the owner's fault, in my eyes. Rescues can take whatever dogs they want to - as long as they're honest when they rehome them. Why is a dog like that living in a home where it's chained in the front yard in the first place? How stupid is that?!


 
Dog is in back yard, but not chain....it's a flippen yellow rope. Access is wide open to view from street.


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## misslesleedavis1

Blanketback said:


> It really is sad. I felt extremely sorry for the breeders of the banned breeds too, when DOLA was introduced. Nobody compensated them when they told them their Staffies and whatnot were now illegal. Pure BS, in my opinion.


Right they followed the breed standard, not sure what that was but its certainly not the tearing faces off traites they were striving for. Now these poor dogs face many genetic faults because of bad breeding.

Zero good being introduced in the breed..look what usually happens to the ones that refuse to fight, they are used as bait dogs.


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## Blanketback

Don't you think the gov. has actually encouraged bad breeding with this law, though? I do. Take away all the good breeding stock, and then leave it to the questionable others, doing it illegally? Even this poor Barrie dog would be spared, if they could prove the pedigree was AmBull. Staffies used to be "Nanny Dogs."

ETA: I'd be so furious if this dog was continually loose, GatorBytes! Grrrr!!!


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## misslesleedavis1

Absolutely I do, they only managed to wipe out good genes. 

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## Blanketback

See, I'd much rather have people who breed dogs for bloodsports ________. You know what I'm saying, lol! It's not nice, let me put it that way.


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## misslesleedavis1

I know what you mean.

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## Gwenhwyfair

In more rural shelters there's a lot of hound, hound mixes. Our local shelter is more rural and we get a lot of lab, lab crosses and some hounds. Pitties sprinkled in there too from time to time but they aren't the majority. In the north east it tends to be labs/retrievers and lab mixes, which is why we have rescues pulling the hounds here in the south and relocating them up north. 

Shepherds seem to crop up everywhere, but not as a majority that I've seen. In the shelters close in to ATL it's a LOT of pitties, that's for sure.

At the end of the day it's all conjecture when we step outside of actual breed registries and the only 'hard' numbers we have are AKC numbers which put the GSD ahead.

Ironically I was at the dog park earlier today, training outside the fenced area of course and sure enough an intact male pittie went after an intact male GSD. Fortunately the pittie owner was right there and broke it up quickly. 




llombardo said:


> I disagree that GSD's outnumber pits. GSD's might be the number two registered dog but pit bulls probably outnumber them by at least double. Trying to find a dog that is not put or pit mixed is not easy.


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## Sarah~

Blanketback said:


> ETA: and that Barrie dog is a perfect example of 'what _exactly_ is a pit bull?' because to me it could be an AmBull cross.


A pit bull to me is an American pit bull terrier... It is an actual breed, ambullies, staffies, etc. are bully breeds like APBTs. APBTs are just not recognized by the AKC. I saw this picture today, really helps to see them next to each other, especially when they are good examples of each breed standard. But if you aren't really super involved with them or they are mixed it would be very hard to tell, they look a lot alike. Not like a GSD or Rottie or Dobes, which at least IMO are pretty distinct.


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## Blanketback

Thanks for that, Sarah  
The problem is that there are so many dogs that can look like a "pit bull" if you're defining them by what they _don't_ look like, as you said. Take that dog that's been seized in Barrie, from the link in my post. Do you see any pit bull in that dog? I don't. Not when I compare the dog to the dogs in your picture. For all I know it's a dogo/whippet mix! Or AmBull/lab. Or any million of other possibilities - but by law that's an illegal dog, and was seized because of its similarities to a pit bull.


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## misslesleedavis1

Sorta looked like poorly bred boxer mix to me, 

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## Blanketback

Or that too, lol. But where is the pit bull?


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## misslesleedavis1

I actually met very happy go lucky young pittbull last night on my walk, charming as all get out with a big smile on his face, I dont know were they got him from but he is in danger bc of the breed ban. People should be more responsible.


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## Sarah~

I would believe a dogo or boxer mix. But I could be totally wrong :/ I don't see pit. But hey, he's got the short coat and the head type, must be a pit... 

I feel like lately any dog people can't really put a finger on breed for is called a pit bull. Which is why I hate BSL so much, it's not even really breed specific most of the time! It's any dog that kind of looks like the dogs I posted, and like you were saying they could be mix of anything without any pit bull at all, and that's not fair! If that dog in your link bit or killed somebody, it goes down as another pit bull attack, another statistic used against them to make people afraid.

Here is my APBT mix. Her mom is purebred APBT, her dad is unknown. You can see the pit bull in the way her body is shaped but her head is not very pit-like. Her muzzle is a bit long, legs are too straight, among other things. Sorry the pictures are bad quality!


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## Blanketback

I don't understand why people still have them here when they know they can be taken away. If you're flaunting the law by speeding, you pay a fine. Big deal. But when flaunting DOLA, if your dog is taken away and PTS then you're devastated, just totally heartbroken. I couldn't do it myself - it's hard enough to lose them in the typical ways.

ETA: I can see that the eyes have that distinctive smaller set to them, in your APBT mix Sarah. But you know here: anything short and squatty, broad chested, brindle, wide skulled, short haired, ad nauseam...is a pit bull. Dumb, huh?


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## martemchik

Here’s what I see with pittie owner/advocates…they don’t admit to the fact that the dog is dangerous. They almost want everyone to forget that the dog is capable of doing damage. Their events revolve around showing how great the dogs are around people, how much they love people, and how they just sit by their owners and do nothing. The dogs aren’t worked to show off what they’re capable of, and they don’t impress the dog owners that would give these dogs a different venue to show off at. Out of the 300 some dogs at our agility trial, I remember seeing about 2 that were pitties or possible mixes. I see very few pitties being trialed in obedience/rally, and I live in an area where 95% of dogs at our pound are pits.

The other “dangerous breeds” including our beloved GSD are worked and are out in the public eye showing how they’re useful in more areas than being a couch potato or being trustworthy around strangers…that’s just expected out of all dogs IMO and it’s not something that’s “special.” At the end of the day, no matter how much you tell people that the dogs are safe…when a family is deciding between a pit mix and a lab mix, there will be a voice in the back of an adult’s head that says one will be “safer” than the other.

I know it’s kind of a tangent, but until people with more credibility and knowledge/understanding of dogs start to adopt and show off the pit bull’s ability in other venues than being a house pet…BSL will continue to be brought up when the irresponsible owner allows the dog to do something stupid. The reason for that is quite simple, many of the other breeds have other abilities that they bring to the table and so they don’t get banned, but if the only reason you can tell someone you own a pitbull is because it’s cute and gives you affection…lawmakers side with the crying mother who just had a child torn apart by one since you can get many other dogs that will provide you cuteness and affection without the danger of being able to kill a human.


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## Sarah~

Blanketback said:


> I don't understand why people still have them here when they know they can be taken away. If you're flaunting the law by speeding, you pay a fine. Big deal. But when flaunting DOLA, if your dog is taken away and PTS then you're devastated, just totally heartbroken. I couldn't do it myself - it's hard enough to lose them in the typical ways.
> 
> ETA: I can see that the eyes have that distinctive smaller set to them, in your APBT mix Sarah. But you know here: anything short and squatty, broad chested, brindle, wide skulled, short haired, ad nausem...is a pit bull. Dumb, huh?


We have BSL here, an outright ban in the next town north of us and restrictions where I live. They must be spayed/neutered, microchipped, registered with the city, and you can't have more than 2. There are permits to allow you to breed them, though. There was a lot of talk about another restriction, making it illegal for felons to own them, but they decided against that. If they banned them here, I would just have to move, unless they let you have them if you'd had them before a certain date or something. The only papers I have on Xena are vet records, but I've got them as far back as when she was 5 months old up until now at 1 1/2 and they have her age printed on all of them.


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## Blanketback

Martemchik, that goes back to what I'm saying: if your dog is responsible for that kind of serious harm, then you yourself should be held responsible. Like vehicular manslaughter, you don't blame the car. So I also believe you shouldn't blame the dog either. If there are really badazz dogs out there that are going to hurt people, then people should think twice before getting them.


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## Sarah~

I agree I don't understand flaunting a pit when there is BSL in your town. There's only restrictions here and I try to hide Xena as much as I can. People can be so awful, I've said it before, if you think GSD prejudice is bad try owning a pit bull. I would hate to see GSDs get the same treatment!


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## Blanketback

I also don't understand the different treatment between municipalities either. The Barrie dog was seized, but didn't do anything except was caught running at large. GatorBytes' neighbor's dog is still in the home after not only running at large, but also _attacking_ another dog and a person. Why the inconsistency?


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## misslesleedavis1

I dont understand that either, I guess it depends on who investigating that day. 

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## Blanketback

Oh yay, just what we need: more wishy-washy enforcement.


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## Chip18

LaRen616 said:


> 10 Most Dangerous Dog Breeds | The Most 10 Of Everything
> 
> Here in the US some home owner's insurances will not insure you if you have a GSD. Some places will not rent to you if you have a GSD.
> 
> If you ban 1 aggressive dog breed then you open the door to banning more.


Well I have had #1 Pitt/mix have #3 GSD and had and getting again #4 Boxer on that list.

My Pit mix was dog aggressive my GSD had pack issues and "people issues" and my Boxer had no "issues" other than a genetic case of "goofiness!" 

Anybody that can screw up a Boxer??? Should not have a dog!! Needless to say all my guys/girl were safe in public. If a person knows they have a dog with "issues" then they have a very high level of responsibility! Sadly to many folks don't see that, don't believe it
or fail to achieve it! That's where the problem is!

You can't outlaw "stupid" just saying.


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## martemchik

I’m fairly certain the people are held accountable financially/civilly…just not criminally. I’m assuming if you are training the dog for fighting, and it does something, and it’s found out, the criminal system will try to put you away for something, but if you just have a family pet with no proof of ever being vicious or you training it to be vicious, the law probably has less power to put you away. But this is probably true for any breed that can do damage.

I think at this point, people do think twice before getting them. There are limitations in the city I live in that aren’t hard to follow, but it’s still something over owning a different breed. I guess I don’t get the idea that we need to hold people accountable and then eventually society will learn…society doesn’t learn. Banning X is the easiest way to limit the widespread use or ownership of X…doesn’t matter what it is. Most people are law abiding and will follow the law, and those on the fence, will also lean towards following the law. There are a few that will never, and know they will probably not get caught, but those are few and far in between.

The problem I see with just “holding people accountable” is that it doesn’t fix the fact that the dog has done damage to someone. I equate it to a gunshot…does it really fix anything in the family that has lost someone knowing that the person that did it is now in jail? Meh…I’m sure it helps, but it’s not bringing that person back. Same with the dog (which is easier to control ownership of), if the dog wasn’t allowed, there wouldn’t be even the possibility of the injury. At this point, I don’t believe telling people that “if dog bites you’re going to jail for 5 years” is really going to increase more responsible ownership.

And on a certain level…the last thing the United States needs is more people going to jail for “small” offenses. Problem with writing a law, is that it has to be “all encompassing” on a certain level to be constitutional and defense lawyer proof. So, I’d imagine it would have to include all dogs, and no matter what the amount of damage is. So then you’d end up with people who own Chihuahuas that scratched a person on the ankle sitting in jail.

BTW…I’m against all BSL. I do think it should be about promoting responsible ownership. I just think sometimes the risk outweighs the reward if you’re expecting people to be responsible when it comes to life threatening situations.


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## Blanketback

A long time ago, I was going to short-term foster a GSD that had a bite history. That dog had been designated a 'dangerous dog' because of the bite, and in order for me to keep him I needed to fulfill various requirements, one of them being that I had $2,000,000 liability insurance. And other obvious things, like being muzzled in public, etc. That's not unreasonable, considering that if I was irresponsible with the dog, someone might get hurt. I do think people should be responsible for the choices that they make, and if they don't want that responsibility then walk away. Don't bring home a dog that will require an effort, if you're not committed to making that effort. Like us here on the forum: we all know that our GSDs will need training.


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## misslesleedavis1

Ahh like the women who swore she could rehab a bully dog who bit a child, then she left her child in the same room and her child suffered a bite. I guess we all know who fault that was,

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## Blanketback

Exactly! Words fail me in that case, it's just so utterly unbelievable. How in the world could someone make that choice?!


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## misslesleedavis1

Words fail me too. I would not of taken on tyson if I had a cat bc he eats cats, if he attacked kids he wouldn't be here either, it fine when you make a choice to endanger yourself...not okay when you put others at risk

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## Chip18

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Words fail me too. I would not of taken on tyson if I had a cat bc he eats cats, if he attacked kids he wouldn't be here either, it fine when you make a choice to endanger yourself...not okay when you put others at risk
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Well put!


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## misslesleedavis1

@blanketback, search up the case on darla napora that will blow your mind, total insanity 

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## Blanketback

"My parents who live across the street from the house and they talked to the husband! OK here is the real story of what happened.....the dog did not maul her......just found out that the woman fell off a ladder and hit her head...husband came home found the dog standing over her...he put the dog out side....it got loose and cops shot the dog...thinking that it had mauled the lady."

Pacifica dog mauling....still no answers - National American Pit Bull | Examiner.com

IDK what to think, other than what a terrible tragedy. I do know people who don't like GSDs because "they turn on their owners." I have no idea where that comes from, but I've heard it several times.


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## misslesleedavis1

I have never heard of a gsd mauling his/her owner. Guess I will plug it into google at some point today 

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## selzer

It hasn't come up in this thread yet, but I have heard the "Petie was a Pitbull" argument talking about the Little Rascals' dog. 

And I remembered the old black and white shows fondly, and of course we all loved Petie. 

Recently, my sister has acquired the old shows and is showing them to her seven year olds. Since I am usually taking care of the mess in the kitchen, I only see one or two a week. So about 6 or 7 in all so far. 

So far, Petie has attacked a shop keeper and his son (who deserved it maybe), and would be robber, the one kid's brother -- yeah his own dog, Jackie Cooper, some bad guys that were trying to scare the kids away from their hideout, and the dog catcher twice (who also probably deserved it at least one of the times). 

But my impression of Petie, from remembering the show years back, and watching it today is totally different. No way should little kids be in charge of a dog like that. Of course this is hollywood and the dog is highly trained, and that was all part of the script. But people who want to go to bat for pitbulls, are maybe wise not to use the Petie was a Pitbull argument.

On the other hand, Bill Sikes' dog, Bullseye, in Oliver Twist, was a pit bull. Pit Bull fanciers are wise not to use that one either.


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## misslesleedavis1

Lol petie only mauled 1 child per season. Lol ahh yeah, I know the petie argument. Its the fall back argument "but petie was a pitbull" yeah and ? Rin tin tin was a shepherd. 

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## Blanketback

What about Sergeant Stubby?
Sergeant Stubby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## misslesleedavis1

Yes war hero! Hes awesome 

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## GatorBytes

selzer said:


> It hasn't come up in this thread yet, but I have heard the "Petie was a Pitbull" argument talking about the Little Rascals' dog.
> 
> .


 The dog in my case is of course named Petie (or Petey?)
Go figure


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## llombardo

Neighbor stopped attack by family pet, but mauling proved fatal for woman | The Columbus Dispatch


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## SunCzarina

When we start banning the people I'll step right up and campaign for that.

Several cities in RI have bans on pits and rotties - 15 years ago Rotts were the 'look at me walking down the street with my badass dog here' dog of choice. As a result of THAT, we have so many badly bred oversized rotties that people here think a correct 85lb 24" tall rottie male is 'small and scrawny'

My city doesn't have BSL. IMagine that, when a city doesn't say oh you can't have that kinda dog, we don't have too many problems with them. There's no law to break so there's no juice, no motivation for the type of person that would want to live with an unstable out of control pitbull (or rottweiler.)

Almost entertaining that all the nasty pitbull stories on the news ALL come out of providence or east prov where it's regulated that you have to have atleast 150k liability on your pit (east prov also includes rotties) and you can't walk them down the street without a muzzle.


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## selzer

llombardo said:


> Neighbor stopped attack by family pet, but mauling proved fatal for woman | The Columbus Dispatch



How sad. It is totally rare though. I wonder if the dog had rage syndrome or something like that. The article cites 11 deaths due to dogs in Ohio, 16 to horses, and six to bulls in a 10 year period. This is definitely bad for our breed though.


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## llombardo

It happens.....

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/05/05/owners-dead-tahoe-dog-want-ordinance-change/8727615/

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/16645526/dog-trainers-say-even-medical-service-dogs-can-attack

http://www.khou.com/news/Friendswoo...rges-pending-against-dog-owner-144932825.html 

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/2...by-2-dogs-in-pontiac-1-dog-still-on-the-loose


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## Gwenhwyfair

Of all people, my mother used to say that one and she's always liked GSDs.  I recall specifically a story of a dog the mauled it's owner while the owner was driving causing a crash and death. Never verified if it was true or not.

This was before the days of the internet so thankfully that old wive's tale died out but I see it cropping up now and again, lately, unfortunately. 

I bet someone will google it, they'll see this thread, only read bits of it and a zombie myth is reborn! 



misslesleedavis1 said:


> I have never heard of a gsd mauling his/her owner. Guess I will plug it into google at some point today
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## llombardo

PHOTOS: Dog hops on Dekalb County school bus, and won't leave - Atlanta News, Weather, Traffic, and Sports | FOX 5


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## misslesleedavis1

Lol he had places to be things to learn. He most likely associated car with fun timez  

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## llombardo

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Lol he had places to be things to learn. He most likely associated car with fun timez
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I thought that he was cute. They aren't all bad, there is just so many of them


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## llombardo

I was just on Facebook and someone posted a video of a chihuahua growling and snapping at them while they tried to take its bone. They thought it was funny to tease the dog. Needless to say we are no longer friends on facebook


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## llombardo

I thought this was cute too. I just think there are way more good pits then bad ones.


Baby goats and big dog play - YouTube


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## Sarah~

llombardo said:


> I was just on Facebook and someone posted a video of a chihuahua growling and snapping at them while they tried to take its bone. They thought it was funny to tease the dog. Needless to say we are no longer friends on facebook


Yeahhh... If I posted the same thing with Eko or Xena I bet it wouldn't be so cute :/


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## llombardo

Sarah~ said:


> Yeahhh... If I posted the same thing with Eko or Xena I bet it wouldn't be so cute :/


You would be a bad owner and your dogs would be considered vicious...


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## Sarah~

Yep. I can see it now all the comments saying how awful of a person I am and that my aggressive dogs need to be put down. It's just as bad no matter what size or breed your dog is!


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## misslesleedavis1

llombardo said:


> I thought that he was cute. They aren't all bad, there is just so many of them


Nope! They are not all bad at all, im not against them one little bit, I still feel shady to the breed ban though more so bc of the type of people who want them and the fact that they are being bred still in canada with no thought put into them. I doubt ontario will change its BSL anytime soon though, supporters can support the bully breeds all they want but it seems to be that most people are still for BSL. I have had to stick up for tyson, my fiances ex wife was attacked by a shep while walking baby jackson down the street, andrew HATED the gsd breed because of it . It was brutal but his ex does not have control in my house, and as andrew learned gsd's are not a bad breed at all.

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## Sarah~

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I still feel shady to the breed ban though more so bc of the type of people who want them and the fact that they are being bred still in canada with no thought put into them.


See! It's the people  these people won't stop when the bully breeds are gone, they will just ruin another breed!


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## misslesleedavis1

Well when pittbull breeders were allowed to breed, they were most likely doing it responsibly and some thought process, like my best friends dog, his mom and dad and grandparents were all great but they stopped when bsl was introduced. I can guarantee you that the people looking to make a quick buck with whatever bully they had on hand did not stop at all and the only way to ruin a feared breed further is to breed write off dogs. 

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## LaRen616

I would own a pitbull if I had no other animals and if my nephews/niece were older. I love how muscular their bodies are and some are absolutely gorgeous.


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## misslesleedavis1

I wouldnt, not a huge fan of the way they look, im not big on boxers either, im getting picky as i age lol,  age.

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## llombardo

LaRen616 said:


> I would own a pitbull if I had no other animals and if my nephews/niece were older. I love how muscular their bodies are and some are absolutely gorgeous.


I can see myself owning the breed down the road. I'm not as worried with my other dogs as I am with the cats. I won't be getting any more cats. To be fair my cats are very bold and don't mind getting into a physical fight with the dogs. Midnite has gotten his butt kicked a couple times.


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## LaRen616

misslesleedavis1 said:


> I wouldnt, not a huge fan of the way they look, im not big on boxers either, im getting picky as i age lol,  age.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Ya definitely not into Boxers.

You don't think these guys are good looking?


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## misslesleedavis1

The first guy is button cuteness status  but no, I am not the number one fan of the way they look. This westie tho! Stole my heart on saturday omg he was crazzy adorable

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## Gwenhwyfair

A well proportioned healthy pittie is beautiful. I saw some at the dog park Saturday (one of which started to fight with a GSD...btw) anyhoo, a couple of them were short legged and had more of a cylindrical shaped body, others were like the pics above.

Still, even a good looking pittie, I would not want one. 

I'm around them a fair amount. There are some that I really like. But I just really like herding group dogs that were bred to work with humans, GSDs, Aussies, Border Collies those types. There's a reason these breeds tend to score higher on intelligence tests (same with some of the breeds in the hunting group retrievers and such).


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## LaRen616

I think this guy is magnificent, he would be ideal pitbull. :wub:


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## Baillif

Meh, put em all down.


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## misslesleedavis1

Foster number 2 Robin now bumi lol I think hes got a little bully in him. He is coming back while his mom n dad go away. I cried 10 solid minutes straight when I got the email  haopy tears lol god I love that silly crap head 

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## misslesleedavis1

Baillif said:


> Meh, put em all down.


Go away ! ! ! Lol 

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## martemchik

Again, it boils down to the fact that the dogs aren’t being worked in many venues and aren’t being bred for venues other than the one that the dog is “known” for. So, there isn’t really a place to go if you want to see “well-bred” pitties. In the case of most of the other aggressive breeds, someone can see very good examples of those breeds working/training for other sports and realize that they want that dog or this dog.

Think about it, the advice we give most people that ask about GSDs here is…go see the dogs work on a Schutzhund field. Learn about the breed that way, and see very excellent examples of the breed. You can do that with rotts, dobes, ect. But with pitties…you don’t have that. Unfortunately, many of the advocacy groups are so focused on socializing the dogs and showing them off to the public, they don’t put any focus on showing/trialing them in events where more “serious” dog people could be impressed and maybe switch to the breed. This would give the breed a lot more positive PR than the random, “look how nice my pittie is, he won’t bite anyone” events.

Makes me think of one event that was held in Milwaukee where it was a pit-bull rescue fundraiser at a Harley dealership…you weren’t allowed to bring your own dog. I understand that it’s to protect from that one idiot actually bringing his DA dog and ruining the purpose of the event…but for me, I’m not going to a “dog event” on the weekend where I’m not allowed to bring my dog. I spend enough time away from them weekdays.


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## Sarah~

There are weight pull shows and some confirmation shows, but not a lot of people know about them. I love seeing all the pictures of the winners, these look amazing when they are conditioned properly


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## Blanketback

The only event I can think of that the pitties I've known would excel at is: how to clear a coffee table with one ecstatic sweep of the tail. Puts the GSDs to shame


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## misslesleedavis1

Tail whips..causes of many of my bruises

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## Baillif

Blanketback said:


> The only event I can think of that the pitties I've known would excel at is: how to clear a coffee table with one ecstatic sweep of the tail. Puts the GSDs to shame


Don't forget their ability to maul small defenseless children. They are pros in that department too.


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## Blanketback

That's why I specifically said "_pitties I've known_" because every single one of them were wonderful family pets, really great with the children.


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## Baillif

Obviously just waiting for the right opportunity to strike for maximum effect.


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## bill

No bans! Tougher laws" lock up the irresponsible owners! If they take your right too own a dog! Your right too own a gun! Your right too....... wow you no longer have any rights!! Many have died for our rights! Don't let it be for nothing!! Bill

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## martemchik

bill said:


> No bans! Tougher laws" lock up the irresponsible owners! If they take your right too own a dog! Your right too own a gun! Your right too....... wow you no longer have any rights!! Many have died for our rights! Don't let it be for nothing!! Bill
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Your right to proper grammar?


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## Baillif

Was too busy counting exclamation marks to notice 

Grammar is more of a privilege anyway. Open to be taken away at any time.


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## martemchik

True...way to many exclamation marks.


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## bill

Been out of school along time! Don't go around not picking everyone who post!!!!!!! Haven't wrote in a long time till this forum!!!! Maybe my mistake!!!
I will send a resume !!! To get that to Bill

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## bill

.

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## Chip18

Well back on topic more or less? How did Boxers get thrown under the BSL Bus!(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


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## martemchik

Lol, I'm sorry. Don't take offense, its just funny when "diehard" American rights people make comments like that and yet they don't use the English language correctly.


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## misslesleedavis1

Chip18 said:


> Well back on topic more or less? How did Boxers get thrown under the BSL Bus!(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


They didnt  

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## bill

I served this country because I believe in my rights!I was airborne because I was going ho.
I didn't pay much attention in English class" wasn't going to be a writer! I don't have to pic a post apart and I will answer any questions" unlike some on this forum!!!! And I don't have to prove how smart I am !!! Have a good day. Bill

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## bill

Hung ho. Lol

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## Blanketback

Chip: boxers have physical similarities to the breeds that are illegal here - see my previous post. If I was going to own a boxer here, I'd make darn sure I had the papers to prove its pedigree.


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## Baillif

I don't recall a right to own a dog being something covered or even implied by the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.


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## Blanketback

Up in Canada, we have the right to death and taxes


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## Galathiel

I spot grammar errors all the time. My eye is drawn to them. I've always been that way. However, I don't nitpick and correct people when they speak, and unless they are writing for profit or for some other 'proper writing required' venues (a thesis, report, etc.), then I try to overlook the flaws and concentrate on what they are trying to convey. 

By the way .. I see a lot of 'to .. too ... two' errors all the time .. drives me nuts. I try not to make a big deal out of it ... I've even seen them in this thread. 'shrug'

As to the topic...I don't care for pitties aesthetically. Not my cup of tea. I don't really care for any slick haired dogs .. (e.g. rotts, dobes). I've known some on both ends of the spectrum. The pitbulls next door are aggressive and barky. Ugh. My niece has a lovely, balanced pit that is up under her the whole time she's home. Incredibly loving and Velcro to her person. I don't like to see BSL .. I think it just gives the government another toe hold into infringing on people's rights. I believe the pursuit of happiness might just include my having my dogs, as long as my rights don't overshadow someone else's right to safely go about their own business.  I DO believe in harsher punishment for irresponsible (repeatedly irresponsible!) owners.


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## misslesleedavis1

BSL debate changes to the grammar debate which I fail at. Im the worst for too to and two.

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## misslesleedavis1

Blanketback said:


> Up in Canada, we have the right to death and taxes


Yes and we certainly dont have the right to cheaper MK bags 

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## Blanketback

I used "then" when I should have used "than" in one of my posts earlier today. Ugh, I hope I can get to sleep tonight...lol!


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## martemchik

You guys have an excuse...you're Canadian, eh?


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## misslesleedavis1

Im sorry to offend you eh

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## Blanketback

Canadian by birth, half American by blood, so no excuses here, eh.


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## Lilie

martemchik said:


> Lol, I'm sorry. Don't take offense, its just funny when "diehard" American rights people make comments like that and yet they don't use the English language correctly.


I think it's even funnier when folks get so caught up in the wrapping paper they fail to realize that there is a gift enclosed. 

Your loss.


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## misslesleedavis1

Canadians, getting less tolerant by the minute.

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## martemchik

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Canadians, getting less tolerant by the minute.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


Canadians, getting more 'Merican by the minute.


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## Blanketback

Or, if you _really_ want to see people get excited - call Canada the 51st state!


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## Chip18

Blanketback said:


> Chip: boxers have physical similarities to the breeds that are illegal here - see my previous post. If I was going to own a boxer here, I'd make darn sure I had the papers to prove its pedigree.


Oh no offense taken at all! Boxers folks are "goofy" like their dogs... I also happen to be a Gemini, so the differences in Bullys and GSD's works for me!


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## Baillif

Blanketback said:


> Or, if you _really_ want to see people get excited - call Canada the 51st state!


That would be Puerto Rico. Canada at best is 52nd


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## Chip18

Galathiel said:


> I spot grammar errors all the time. My eye is drawn to them. I've always been that way. However, I don't nitpick and correct people when they speak, and unless they are writing for profit or for some other 'proper writing required' venues (a thesis, report, etc.), then I try to overlook the flaws and concentrate on what they are trying to convey.


Thank you! Belittling others to make a point is a crap way to conduct oneself



Galathiel said:


> By the way .. I see a lot of 'to .. too ... two' errors all the time .. drives me nuts. I try not to make a big deal out of it ... I've even seen them in this thread. 'shrug'


For whatever reason I'm always aware of that one! 



Galathiel said:


> As to the topic...I don't care for pitties aesthetically. Not my cup of tea. I don't really care for any slick haired dogs .. (e.g. rotts, dobes). I've known some on both ends of the spectrum. The pitbulls next door are aggressive and barky. Ugh. My niece has a lovely, balanced pit that is up under her the whole time she's home. Incredibly loving and Velcro to her person. I don't like to see BSL .. I think it just gives the government another toe hold into infringing on people's rights. I believe the pursuit of happiness might just include my having my dogs, as long as my rights don't overshadow someone else's right to safely go about their own business.  I DO believe in harsher punishment for irresponsible (repeatedly irresponsible!) owners.


My GSD was my funny looking dog! But I got use to him. Seen him do the "pointy ear thing" on an alert on a walk?? Don't know what he saw..but we turned around and went home! Pretty cool look no mistaking that!

Pitties next door are bad dogs, ignorant owners, I'm a Bully fan but barring a lot of intervention by there owners (not likely) not dogs you want to encounter!


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## martemchik

Baillif said:


> That would be Puerto Rico. Canada at best is 52nd


I'd take British Columbia and Ontario...they can keep the rest.


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## misslesleedavis1

Best thing to come outta canada lately has been lulu lemon.  chip!!! Im a gemini also !! Go us 

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## Chip18

LOL, yeah tends to cause me problems in Boxer land forums, I managed to inadvertently, insult someone from the UK on one of the rare occasions that E collars got brought up!:blush:


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## misslesleedavis1

Lol thats one thing we usually dont manage the insulting things..on to the next! 

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## Gwenhwyfair

That's because we don't have "School House Rock" anymore. 

Conjunction Junction What's Your Function, hooking up words, phrases and clauses... 








misslesleedavis1 said:


> BSL debate changes to the grammar debate which I fail at. Im the worst for too to and two.
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## misslesleedavis1

Lol im in conjunction without my samsung auto correct I wouldn't function... 

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## Gwenhwyfair

Lol! 



misslesleedavis1 said:


> lol im in conjunction without my samsung auto correct i wouldn't function...
> 
> sent from petguide.com free app


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## Sarah~

Galathiel said:


> I don't care for pitties aesthetically.


That's crazy lol! I get it, though, there's dogs I don't really like the look of that are super popular. 

I LOVE conditioned pitties... 

http://thebullybreeds.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/317113_283432805110305_95891698_n.jpg 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Ripped.jpg 

http://thebullybreeds.com/wp-conten...t_bull_terrier_65_by_natiawarner-d3274uw1.jpg


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## misslesleedavis1

More muscle to kill you with my dear.  
You know what love? The awesome looks of the Tibetan mastiff! They look like fuzzy comforters

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## misslesleedavis1

Ooh too late to edit, slip a "l" between what n love.

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## Sarah~

misslesleedavis1 said:


> More muscle to kill you with my dear.
> You know what love? The awesome looks of the Tibetan mastiff! They look like fuzzy comforters


I like the ones that don't have that huge mane around their head lol


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## misslesleedavis1

Seriously! I think the mane is the best part, I love a good mane lol, you like anatolian sheps?

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## onyx'girl

Houston SPCA awarded for murdering pit bulls - National American Pit Bull | Examiner.com


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## misslesleedavis1

Thats disgusting


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## selzer

As to the dog's posted in those photos, I know they must be someone's beloved pets, but no, I don't think they are handsome. Sorry. I just don't like the looks of any type of pit bull, including the whole spectrum of AKC breeds that are often lumped in with them. 

Of course, when I hear the word "dog" an image of a GSD pops up in my brain. So I don't know if my feelings are simply against pit-type dogs. In fact, my sister's kids showed me their new Dictionary. (I had complained because their other one was so lame it didn't have the words we were trying to spell in it. So my sister agreed and got them a couple of real dictionaries.) Anyhow, I looked up dog and sure enough, there was photos of many dogs, but a GSD was one of them, so I approved of the dictionary. 

As a matter of fact there was this nasty little staffie that kept beating my butt in Rally. If it was there when I got there, I would know that my best chance would only be red. 

And I've hated the lot of them since then, LOL!


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## sparra

Agree.......I don't like the way they look either, no softness to them, even when you pat one they just feel hard......not my cuppa tea....but each to their own


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## Sarah~

misslesleedavis1 said:


> Seriously! I think the mane is the best part, I love a good mane lol, you like anatolian sheps?


Yes, I think they're very pretty  I like most of the shepherds







onyx'girl said:


> Houston SPCA awarded for murdering pit bulls - National American Pit Bull | Examiner.com


A lot of the pit bull enthusiasts I know hate the HSUS and the SPCA, because of things like this.  I agree disgusting.







selzer said:


> As to the dog's posted in those photos, I know they must be someone's beloved pets, but no, I don't think they are handsome. Sorry. I just don't like the looks of any type of pit bull, including the whole spectrum of AKC breeds that are often lumped in with them.
> 
> Of course, when I hear the word "dog" an image of a GSD pops up in my brain. So I don't know if my feelings are simply against pit-type dogs.



That could be, I don't really like any of the spaniel breeds, I don't think they're very good looking. When I think dog I think of dogs that have a lot of presence, like GSDs, Dobes, Rotts, APBTs, mastiffs, etc. So I think it's not so much the appearance as the impression I get from the dogs that attracts me to them. When I see bully breeds I see a dog with power, energy, and I love how they are still so silly and friendly to people despite all those muscles.



sparra said:


> Agree.......I don't like the way they look either, no softness to them, even when you pat one they just feel hard......not my cuppa tea....but each to their own


Lol! Fair enough, I do love a soft dog. Even though they are hard they are great cuddlers just like GSDs!


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## Chip18

GSD was my "funny" looking dog Pointy ears, whats up with that??Not to mention the pointy face??? Just all wrong for a Boxer/Bully guy. 

But I'm not a fool the more I worked with him the more impressed I was! Door way thresholds was the first clue. My guys don't go out the front door without, my release period, end of story!

My first clue that my GSD was different, was the back door. My Bully guys I open the back door and boom there out. I did the same with my GSD open the back door so he could out out...he doesn't move,WTH??? Then it dons on me! I say OK and out he goes!

For him a threshold is a threshold, don't move without release! That was impressive!


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## Sarah~

Lol yeah Xena has trouble with the "stay" command, I back up and she immediately follows like "ummm where are you going with my treat???"

Eko will stay for hours, he just loves doing whatever I ask him to. Sometimes I am really amazed by how obedient and in tune to me he is!


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## misslesleedavis1

My border does a solid down stay for hours. I recall one night when his G ma came over and my son whipped open the door to say hello, dexters grandma means the world to him and he headed for the door in a flash, I was on the couch and said "down" he dropped like a fly and waited until his fave person ever came into the house. Border collies seem to have the drop and stay down built into them must be all the ups n downs of herding. 

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## Gwenhwyfair

Yup, that's the herding dogs for ya.


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## misslesleedavis1

I find dex to be more serious then my sheps. I dont know what it is but he exudes all work no fun. My goodness is he sensitive too, he can barely come back from a "mean" tone in my voice, I yelled at shigs one day in the basement and dexter promptly turned around and burried his head in his paws facing the wall. I had to pretty much buy him dinner and flowers to get him to look at me again. Dexter is so much not like my sheps who are down for everything and happy they bounce back quick.

Everyone loves him though, im so happy him and tyson get on now. Boys dont hold any grudges ot seems were as shiggs has a shigglers list.

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