# How long did it take your dog to hit 100 pounds?



## Lesber2004 (Aug 14, 2013)

My dog is 96 pounds and he is 8 months and a half...I know he is really big.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

None of my GSDs are near 100lbs

My bitch is 300lbs of dog compacted into 65lbs


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## Karla (Dec 14, 2010)

Mine either. Male 74 lbs at 6 years old, female 70 lbs. at 7 years old.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mine are GSDs. They don't get anywhere near 100#. Of course they are all girls, but when they aren't pregnant, the biggest will be fat at 75 maybe. Cujo was a pretty big guy, I think he topped out at 86, but he could have maybe carried 90-92 without being fat, so someone could've probably gotten him over 100 if they did not mind him looking like a coffee table.


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## Jaxx's mom (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow. That is really big for 8 months!!
I have no idea what Jaxx weighs now, guessing around 97 pounds. But he weighed 85 pounds at 8 months. 
Sounds like you got a big fella on your hands  


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## elisabeth_00117 (May 17, 2009)

My male (4.5 years old) is currently 84lbs and in good working condition.

My female (2.5 years old) is 61lbs and could loose another pound or two - working on it now that we are training weekly again.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

My male is about 92 # and he is 11. When he was 4 or 5 I let him get too fat and he went above 100 for a little bit but I was rightfully worried about his hips and back end and made him slim down some.


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## Nigel (Jul 10, 2012)

Ranger may be getting close, he was mid 90s at the last vet visit. He's built to carry that much, thick head and legs, but very lean and ribby feeling. He looks much larger than he though, people tend to think he's over 100.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Riley is 3.5yrs old, 27" at the withers and typically weighs in between 76-80lbs. The vet, and I, do not wish for him to exceed 80lbs. He is in great condition. However, I imagine optimal weight, for any given dog, varies a lot dog-to-dog based on height, bone density, etc... others with more expertise can comment more on that.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

GSD's are not supposed to be that big...so asking "when" as if they are all supposed to hit that, is the wrong question....I have no problem with breeders accidentally having larger pups...but this mentality in the US of breeding larger than standard dogs, attaching some kind of machoism to it is ridiculous, and the WORST claiming it is some throwback to what the GSD was supposed to be...Below are the thoughts from the creator of the breed, on size....

"Physical size exercises great influence on ability to move, for with increase of size, weight grows more in proportion than the strength available for movement, which depends on the density of the muscles, and thereby suffers not only in that particular part of its service which demands endurance, but also in the suppleness of the body, and the power of making quick and sharp turns, sudden stops, and the surmounting of obstacles. Increased weight exercises as well a strong pressure on the supporting frame of the skeleton which affects the bones themselves, as well as the ligaments and muscles .... An excess of size is ... an unserviceable feature for breeding (because) his powers of endurance, his speed and the smartness of his movements suffer in all circumstances. Giants are never nimble.... Such dogs then use themselves up quickly when they are eager and full of ardor. They are, however, generally, lazy and easy-going and for that very reason are already unfit for service."


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> GSD's are not supposed to be that big...so asking "when" as if they are all supposed to hit that, is the wrong question....I have no problem with breeders accidentally having larger pups...but this mentality in the US of breeding large dogs and attaching some kind of machoism to it is ridiculous...


I don't think you can call it machoism. I'm a girl and I love big Shepherds. I like them a lot better than the smaller ones.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I don't think you can call it machoism. I'm a girl and I love big Shepherds. I like them a lot better than the smaller ones.


That being said,mos people think my male is 110+. He's 85. All mental


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

hunterisgreat said:


> That being said,mos people think my male is 110+. He's 85. All mental


Agreed....Or the opposite...someone talks about their huge 105lb dog...get it on a vet scale and it's 88 and fat...


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> Agreed....Or the opposite...someone talks about their huge 105lb dog...get it on a vet scale and it's 88 and fat...


Jäger is 85 and acts live I starve him... Get in arguments when friends give him cheesy fries


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

I just don't understand the desire to flaunt an over-sized dog?? I was running on some trails in the woods a couple months ago and was passing this guy who's HUGE long haired shepherd was going insane trying to get at me and my dog...for no reason...I said, "wow, that is a big dog." And he said, "yeah, thanks, we're pretty happy with how big he got." The guy was just beaming about the size. And I'm sitting there in disbelief because the dog is unbelievably reactive, out of control, snarling and lunging....yeah...you be happy about that weight...because that's apparently all that matters...


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

75-85 is the perfect range for me (85 is really as high as I'd like it)...I condition my dogs though, we run 3 miles every other day. I can't have them lumbering along and hurting themselves....nor do I want to have to stop running them at 4/5 years old because they are too big and the stress on their joints/spine is just too much.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> I just don't understand the desire to flaunt an over-sized dog?? I was running on some trails in the woods a couple months ago and was passing this guy who's HUGE long haired shepherd was going insane trying to get at me and my dog...for no reason...I said, "wow, that is a big dog." And he said, "yeah, thanks, we're pretty happy with how big he got." The guy was just beaming about the size. And I'm sitting there in disbelief because the dog is unbelievably reactive, out of control, snarling and lunging....yeah...you be happy about that weight...because that's apparently all that matters...


... Big dog people focus on a number


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> I just don't understand the desire to flaunt an over-sized dog?? I was running on some trails in the woods a couple months ago and was passing this guy who's HUGE long haired shepherd was going insane trying to get at me and my dog...for no reason...I said, "wow, that is a big dog." And he said, "yeah, thanks, we're pretty happy with how big he got." The guy was just beaming about the size. And I'm sitting there in disbelief because the dog is unbelievably reactive, out of control, snarling and lunging....yeah...you be happy about that weight...because that's apparently all that matters...


Not all oversized dogs are fat or reactive and have macho owners. Many are obedience trained, not fat and owned by women. 

The only fat one of the bunch was a non GSD with a thyroid problem. The female was 80# and both males were well into the 90#'s when that picture was taken. And look all sitting nicely for the camera.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> ... Big dog people focus on a number


No. Not true.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> No. Not true.


In my experience, absolutely


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> In my experience, absolutely


I'm a big dog person and I could care less how much the weight is.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

I really think the "public" has zero capacity to guess the weight/size of a dog. 

Most people tell me that Riley is HUGE. They told me that my last dog was HUGE. There was a 20lb differential between the two dogs (Riley weighs more than Lucky did). My last dog - Lucky - was a long coat mystery mix breed - I think the long coat is what addeed 20lbs to most people's estimations of his size. 

Riley is a totally normal sized GSD with a stock coat. To many, he is still considered HUGE. This always makes me chuckle because if they saw him curled up on the couch they would think he is a lap dog.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I'm a big dog person and I could care less how much the weight is.


Go talk to anyone with a mastiff... First sentence will be what their dog weighs


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## Lucy Dog (Aug 10, 2008)

How long will it take my dogs to hit 100? My 5 year old female is a very fit 70 pounds. My male puppy is almost 7 months old and I'd guess about 45 pounds, maybe 50 tops. So hopefully never for either of them.


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

My dogs will never hit 100 pounds. Heidi hovers between 50-55 pounds and is more dog than most people can handle. I think the biggest male I work is 95 pounds and he seems huge! I will take a 50-60 pound female or a 75 pound male any day of the week. I prefer them on the small end of the standard but that's just me.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

mycobraracr said:


> My dogs will never hit 100 pounds. Heidi hovers between 50-55 pounds and is more dog than most people can handle. I think the biggest male I work is 95 pounds and he seems huge! I will take a 50-60 pound female or a 75 pound male any day of the week. I prefer them on the small end of the standard but that's just me.


Still waiting for you to work jäger. Got a seminar in jan/feb?! Eh? Maybe?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> Go talk to anyone with a mastiff... First sentence will be what their dog weighs


I have friends with a mastiff. I have no idea what their dog weighs they have never told me and I've never asked. 

I've had an Akita, A Great Dane, several Shepherds. I could care less what they weigh. I just like BIG. Most have come from rescue or shelters because that is just what I do. My smallest dog ever is probably somewhere in the 40 to 50 range. But as the only time my dogs get weighed is when they go to the vet I really can't say for sure.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I have friends with a mastiff. I have no idea what their dog weighs they have never told me and I've never asked.
> 
> I've had an Akita, A Great Dane, several Shepherds. I could care less what they weigh. I just like BIG. Most have come from rescue or shelters because that is just what I do. My smallest dog ever is probably somewhere in the 40 to 50 range. But as the only time my dogs get weight is when they go to the vet I really can't say for sure.


You're the exception that's fine...


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## mycobraracr (Dec 4, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> Still waiting for you to work jäger. Got a seminar in jan/feb?! Eh? Maybe?


 
Keep me posted! I really want to come out!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

hunterisgreat said:


> You're the exception that's fine...


No I'm the norm. The few bad ones are just more noticeable because they are such idiots! They give everyone a bad name. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking big dogs.


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## hunterisgreat (Jan 30, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> No I'm the norm. The few bad ones are just more noticeable because they are such idiots! They give everyone a bad name. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking big dogs.


I'm around lots of dogs... Think I've got a good fix on the average owner in this area at least


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> Not all oversized dogs are fat or reactive and have macho owners. Many are obedience trained, not fat and owned by women.
> 
> The only fat one of the bunch was a non GSD with a thyroid problem. The female was 80# and both males were well into the 90#'s when that picture was taken. And look all sitting nicely for the camera.


You're missing my point...of course I'm not saying all large dogs have temperament problems...for all I know the Shiloh I was talking about could have had perfect genetics, and just needed better training. I just thought it was crazy that he was so fixated on talking about this dog's size, and completely ignoring how inappropriate it was acting and how out of control it was...I see it ALL the time...people will post a pic of their dog on Facebook, on other forums, I'll literally run into them when I'm out hiking/running, and the FIRST thing they want to brag about is how huge the dog is...working dogs, heck...just starting to condition my dogs in running, it's unbelievable what larger dogs can't handle. The German Shepherd that was originally created should be able to run three miles every other day....a LOT of the GSD's can't these days. And I am seeing this trend of people/owners really believing that GSD's are supposed to be 100+ pounds...some of these over-sized breeders have 120 pound sires...that's ridiculous...a dog that size simply cannot perform at the levels it was bred to perform at....period. We JUST had a thread about all this, I really can't explain it better, physiologically, than the creator did...and I quoted him earlier....


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> No I'm the norm. The few bad ones are just more noticeable because they are such idiots! They give everyone a bad name. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking big dogs.


Once again you are missing the point...no one thinks there is anything wrong with big dogs...I may be going out on a limb here, but OP's dog is 95 lbs and still well under a year...I would wager a lot that he got the dog from a breeder who's biggest selling point is size...it's just a shame...my biggest bone of contention is that they are saying this is what a "true" shepherd is...that's just crap...true shepherds are not that big, and they can't be if they are to retain any amount of workability. I hate that I really have to look to make sure the breeder I am looking at is breeding dogs that are capable of running THREE miles every OTHER day..in a HERDING breed....I can't run a mastiff that much...can't run a newfoundland that much, or a saint bernard....that's expected....it's sad that a herding/utility/working breed is being bred and sold with such high promises and lies that they are supposed to be that big....But breeders have found a market...people wanting dogs that look like GSD's but are very out of standard in so many ways, size being the biggest one (sorry for the pun:0). I just need to let it go...I can quote the creator of the breed, his hopes/dreams for the breed, thoughts on size, and that's it.


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## LoveGSD's (Aug 22, 2009)

I am sure genetics are evolved, but young dogs grow too fast if they are over fed. We have never had a male over 85 Lbs and females between 60 and 70 when fully grow.


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## Carriesue (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm always getting people coming up to me saying how huge my dog is like it's a good thing but he's 15 months and a whopping 65lbs! Must be the long coat or the fact that I'm barely over 5', he just looks bigger next to me.  I have nothing against big dogs, I'd love to own a Great Dane someday but I don't think 100lb GSD's should ever be considered a good thing. Just my opinion. My dog and I train in multiple sports so I have no issues that he's under the standard(at least for now) for a male though... easier on his joints and easier on my back!


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## llombardo (Dec 11, 2011)

Midnite is 1.5 years old and just hit 100 pounds. He doesn't look 100 pounds to me but he is muscle. I would prefer for him to be about 85 pounds. He gets plenty of exercise and I have no clue how big his parents were. Several people that know the breed said had would hit a hundred, I was in denial.


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## juliejujubean (May 4, 2011)

My charles is a freak of nature when it comes to height. He was 90# at a year and thats too big for me.  His male littermates are closer to 75/80# My Dia is a nice 63 #. The absolute perfect cuddling size!  I would love these guys no matter their size though bevause its just a number. I prefer my pups to be active and agile. I know Charles will gain more weight though, hopefully soon. He is so lanky still and i would like him to fill out. Love my pups. 




























Sorry the last one is so weird. He refused to stand still! 



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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

hunterisgreat said:


> Go talk to anyone with a mastiff... First sentence will be what their dog weighs



That's because usually he first question people ask is "What does it weigh?", usually followed by the more intelligible, "What does it eat", I bite my tongue not to say, "Idiots who ask asinine questions".

We own a giant not as a status symbol, not to see how big she will get, despite suggestions that she could go 200lbs if you fed her more - she is very tall, she could go that big, if we wanted to add to the myriad of health problems we adopted her with, we own her because dh grew up with Newfies, they worked, pulled sleighs with wood, helped haul downed moose out of the bush.

Having said that, Oz is a mutt or badly bred Shep and he is down to 75lbs now that we have his thyroid under control, he does not have a large build and my Saint, she is 165-168lbs. If you are happy with your dog's weight and your vet is happy and the rescue, breeder, whomever you acquired your dog from is happy - then everybody should be happy and you do not have to conform to some arbitrary size chart. If the dog is conditioned, in decent health, the numbers don't matter.


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## scarmack (Aug 14, 2013)

I can speak from actually owning one (mastiff).

The first questions we're asked...
"Holy cow she's huge! How much does she weigh!?"
"Look at the head on that thing! How much......"
"What is that, a horse!?!? How much....."

So I can understand where you're coming from, because 9/10 times everyone talks about how big and is curious about her weight. Other than that, they are extremely lazy dogs haha


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Never.

My male is over the standard height wise at 28-28.5 inches at the shoulder but he only weighs 90 pounds, I keep him lean so that there isn't extra weight on his hips. He is 4.5 years old.


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## ozzymama (Jan 17, 2005)

scarmack said:


> I can speak from actually owning one (mastiff).
> 
> The first questions we're asked...
> "Holy cow she's huge! How much does she weigh!?"
> ...



Or the exclamation, "That's a big dog", really, we hadn't noticed! I'm more interested by people who own small dogs like maltese around here, we're in the snow belt, well just on the cusp, there was one morning we woke up to 3 feet of snow, how do you find a small white dog out there? Dolly puts her head down and plows a path for Ozzy.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

DaniFani said:


> But breeders have found a market...people wanting dogs that look like GSD's but are very out of standard in so many ways, size being the biggest one (sorry for the pun:0). I just need to let it go...I can quote the creator of the breed, his hopes/dreams for the breed, thoughts on size, and that's it.


I saw what you posted. I just don't agree with the creator anymore than I agree with you. I like big shepherds, and if I wasn't so involved in rescue and decided to go with a breeder dog I would go to Royal Air or one of the other big breeders. My dogs don't need to run 3 miles or or work all day. Face it there is a big market for pet dogs, we far exceed those who actually work their dogs. So if we like white dogs, or big dogs, or other things out of the norm that is what some of the breeders are going to be breeding, because that is where the money is. Frankly I think this breed would be a lot better if they would breed out some of the drive. There are just to many drivey dogs getting into pet homes where people can't handle them and they wind up in rescue. There are just not enough experienced shepherd owners who are going to do stuff like run them 3 miles a day to take them all in.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> I saw what you posted. I just don't agree with the creator anymore than I agree with you. I like big shepherds, and if I wasn't so involved in rescue and decided to go with a breeder dog I would go to Royal Air or one of the other big breeders. My dogs don't need to run 3 miles or or work all day. Face it there is a big market for pet dogs, we far exceed those who actually work their dogs. So if we like white dogs, or big dogs, or other things out of the norm that is what some of the breeders are going to be breeding, because that is where the money is. Frankly I think this breed would be a lot better if they would breed out some of the drive. There are just to many drivey dogs getting into pet homes where people can't handle them and they wind up in rescue. There are just not enough experienced shepherd owners who are going to do stuff like run them 3 miles a day to take them all in.


Breed out the drive to accommodate those pet owners who cannot handle it?

WOW is all I can say. Its that kind of interest that is destroying this amazing breed.

If you don't want a GSD in its true form, why wouldn't you look at a breed that has less drive rather than looking to change a breed. Very damaging IMO.

I am so very thankful to those breeders who strive to meet the breed standard and not cave to these kinds of demands.

For the record, I have owned both one over standard couch potato GSD in looks only, and now my current GSD right in line wih the standard both temperament and size. No way I would go the large couch potato route again. I loved him to death but he was not what a GSD should be.


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## MrsFergione (Jul 7, 2013)

Mine will not get anywhere near 100 lbs, she will be between 65-70 and she is 50 right now.


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## alexg (Mar 22, 2013)

Lesber2004 said:


> My dog is 96 pounds and he is 8 months and a half...I know he is really big.


And what breed is your dog?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Saphire said:


> Breed out the drive to accommodate those pet owners who cannot handle it?
> 
> WOW is all I can say. Its that kind of interest that is destroying this amazing breed.
> 
> If you don't want a GSD in its true form, why wouldn't you look at a breed that has less drive rather than looking to change a breed. Very damaging IMO.


You know I've had shepherds for close to 30 years. They used to not be so drivey and they used to not have all the problems they have today. These small drivey shepherds are something I've only seen in the last 10 years or so. They never used to be this hyper, fear aggressive and all the other problems that you see when people try to stuff big dogs into small dog bodies. Just look at what happened with the poodle. I think some people have lost their minds if they think that the smaller high drive dogs of today are what a German Shepherd is or should be. But hey as I don't breed, and never will it really doesn't matter what I think. I just find it rude to start bashing on some new comer who asks a simple question about weight. Saying his dog must be fat or it is machoism to want a big dog is really totally unfair.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

MrsFergione said:


> Mine will not get anywhere near 100 lbs, she will be between 65-70 and she is 50 right now.


I'm sorry!


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> They never used to be this hyper, fear aggressive and all the other problems that you see when people try to stuff big dogs into small dog bodies.


A Gsd with drive does not mean they hyper, fear aggressive and full of problems. That too is obviously not ideal nor to the GSD breed standard so your point is lost as I am stating breeders should breed to the standard, NOT to pet owners who want a dog that looks like a GSD but lacks all the qualities they should and are meant to have such as drive.

GSD's should also not be BIG dogs stuffed into small bodies. Once again not to the breed standard.

My oversized supposed well bred Floyd was reactive, did not recover from bad situations, littered with health issues and lost his life at 7 years old to Hemangio.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Saphire said:


> A Gsd with drive does not mean they hyper, fear aggressive and full of problems. That too is obviously not ideal nor to the GSD breed standard so your point is lost as I am stating breeders should breed to the standard, NOT to pet owners who want a dog that looks like a GSD but lacks all the qualities they should and are meant to have such as drive.
> 
> GSD's should also not be BIG dogs stuffed into small bodies. Once again not to the breed standard.
> 
> My oversized supposed well bred Floyd was reactive, did not recover from bad situations, littered with health issues and lost his life at 7 years old to Hemangio.


My 92# almost 12 year old Buddy from what you would probably call a back yard breeder but what I call a hobby breeder is still going strong. He loves kids, is tolerant of adults and gets along fine with most other animals, tho he is not fond of cats or small fuzzies. I'm sure you don't think he is to breed standard but I think he is wonderful and I wish all Shepherds were like him. Big loyal and loving. My AKC registered WGSL girl who I got from rescue is about 80#'s and loves people, her ball and life. Once again I'm sure not to your breed standards but she is beautiful, smart, loyal and the perfect pet dog. My first girl what a white shepherd mix. According to others here she doesn't exist according to SV because she is white. Once again great with people and kids. So if breeding to the "standard" meant she would never have been born. Screw the standard! If we are going to breed dogs at all we should be breeding the long lived, healthy, best tempered dogs. But as long as there is a "standard" to follow people will breed for looks, size and type rather than for healthy and happy.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> My 92# almost 12 year old Buddy from what you would probably call a back yard breeder but what I call a hobby breeder is still going strong. He loves kids, is tolerant of adults and gets along fine with most other animals, tho he is not fond of cats or small fuzzies. I'm sure you don't think he is to breed standard but I think he is wonderful and I wish all Shepherds were like him. Big loyal and loving. My AKC registered WGSL girl who I got from rescue is about 80#'s and loves people, her ball and life. Once again I'm sure not to your breed standards but she is beautiful, smart, loyal and the perfect pet dog. My first girl what a white shepherd mix. According to others here she doesn't exist according to SV because she is white. Once again great with people and kids. So if breeding to the "standard" meant she would never have been born. Screw the standard! If we are going to breed dogs at all we should be breeding the long lived, healthy, best tempered dogs. But as long as there is a "standard" to follow people will breed for looks, size and type rather than for healthy and happy.


I am so very happy you have healthy happy dogs as I wouldn't wish my experience on anyone.

I will also respect your opinions although I do not agree with them.


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## Gretchen (Jan 20, 2011)

96lbs at 8 months is huge! I wish I could see your boy. After reading through comments here, all I can say that if your vet thinks your dog is at a healthy weight, that's great.
Our female is large, 86-88lbs, although the vet always wants her 5lbs less at whatever weight she is. I'm sure her brother is 100lbs, her sister is smaller, probably weighs in mid to high 70's. My husband's friend has a black GSD from the same breeder, 125lbs, but he should really be 110, he's overweight.We love seeing large GSDs as long as they are not obese.


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## Piper'sgrl (Apr 20, 2012)

Neither of my dogs have hit 100lbs and I don't think they will. My fiancée's boy Zeus is just over 2 yrs old now and weighs about 90lbs (still has filling out to do) And my girl Piper was weighed yesterday and she's 84lbs at 1 yr 10 months. I think she will be just over 85lbs when she is done filling out but she has already surprised me with her weight anyways. She may hit 90lbs. Her dad and mom were fairly big.


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## LUV4MAJOR (Sep 11, 2013)

Major will be 11 months on the 27th of this month.. He's a big boy @ 96lbs. Still can see and feel the ribs though and the Vet said he's simply that~ a big muscular boy~ I would prefer him be a little lighter though honestly. 

We actually had an Old English Mastiff prior to Major and he was 178lbs at age 2.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

One amazing thing about his breed is that there are enough variations to fit with most people in most stages of thier life. Presently I have a 11 week old wgwl so I am not sure how old he will be. His father is 88#. My last shepherd averaged 90# which is big. My father who is almost 70 presently has a large American showline. He has had GSDs his whole life and would not be happy without one. As he got older he did look for a less drivey dog. His is about 105# and crazy smart. I hope my boy comes out as smart. I know mine has more drive but I am more physically capable. I can see a place for both his couch potatoe and my working line.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

I wish there was one GSD. I so wish people didn't need a degree to understand the differences between showing, working line and then to further breakdown where each originated from to understand characteristics of each. 

Its no wonder people look to create a GSD that fits their family rather than a family finding a dog that already has established characteristics that they want and can live with.

What other breeds have so many variations within what is supposed to be one standard?

I forgot to add my dogs weight. Gus is 82lbs at one year old. He is very muscled and I don't expect him to go over 85lbs.


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## Wolfgeist (Dec 4, 2010)

Most GSDs do not reach 100lbs. My male is currently 84.5lbs last weighed a few days ago, and he is lean right now at 2.5 years of age. I expect he will put on another 2 or so lbs as he fills out, so he will still come in under 90lbs.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

newtexas said:


> One amazing thing about his breed is that there are enough variations to fit with most people in most stages of thier life. Presently I have a 11 week old wgwl so I am not sure how old he will be. His father is 88#. My last shepherd averaged 90# which is big. My father who is almost 70 presently has a large American showline. He has had GSDs his whole life and would not be happy without one. As he got older he did look for a less drivey dog. His is about 105# and crazy smart. I hope my boy comes out as smart. I know mine has more drive but I am more physically capable. I can see a place for both his couch potatoe and my working line.


Exactly. I want a GSD I want their loyality, their smarts, their joy of life. I don't want another breed, but I sure as heck don't want a small drivey one. I just wish those who breed the drivey ones would stop letting them get out into the pet population, because that is so many times those are the ones that show up in rescue because people can't handle them.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Exactly. I want a GSD I want their loyality, their smarts, their joy of life. I don't want another breed, but I sure as heck don't want a small drivey one. I just wish those who breed the drivey ones would stop letting them get out into the pet population, because that is so many times those are the ones that show up in rescue because people can't handle them.


I don't think you fully understand drive. The breed is meant to have drive, without drive they cannot do what they were bred for. 

Excessive drives that cannot be isolated and worked are NOT what a GSD should be.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

Mine is a small drivey one. So was my last one. I love them because I can physically handle them.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Saphire said:


> I don't think you fully understand drive. The breed is meant to have drive, without drive they cannot do what they were bred for.
> 
> Excessive drives that cannot be isolated and worked are NOT what a GSD should be.


They were bread to herd sheep. Not many sheep herding jobs around today. 

"As Germany became increasingly industrialized and the pastoral era declined, von Stephanitz realized the breed might also decline. With the co-operation of police and working dog clubs a set of specific tests was developed in tracking, formal obedience, and protection work." Even the original developer of the GSD realized that and changed directions. 

I realize that traditionalists think that Schutzhund is the end all be all of the Sheperd, but if he is going to survive in today's society he is going to have to change again. Because just as the pastoral era declined so did the industrialized era. We are now in a post industrialzed era or the new electronic era or whatever you want to call it. We live too close together in too small a space for the GSD to have the kind of drive and energy they once had. We built dogs to be the perfect companion to humans. To remain that way they have to change along with us.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

We just returned from the vet. Hans is almost 2 and he is currently 64 pounds. His all-time high was 67. 
This dog is never "hitting" 100 pounds, because his sire weighs 72.


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

shepherdmom said:


> . We built dogs to be the perfect companion to humans. To remain that way they have to change along with us.


We did not build dogs. 

And we selected for traits first and foremost for work, not for companionship. 
From Wikipedia:_
Jobs performed by dogs


"Although most modern dogs are kept as pets, there are still a tremendous number of ways in which dogs can and do assist humans, and more uses are found for them every year. The following list provides an idea of the versatility of dogs:

*IPO Sportdogs *are trained to an extremely high level of obedience. Competition consists of three phases: Tracking, Obedience, and Defense. Each phase begins with 100 points and points are then deducted for every mistake the dog and handler team make. Each team must achieve a minimum of 70 points per phase, and when temperament and mood of the animal are constantly assessed just passing is an achievement for most competitors.

*Turnspit dogs* were used as a source of power, they turned a treadmill connected to a roasting spit. Similar arrangements were used for household duties such as churning butter.

Dogs were used as draught animals to pull small carts for farms, peddlers, or travellers (milk, fish, rags & bones, meat, bread, and other products), to deliver mail, and to pull carts carrying people for transportation or entertainment. They were used in World War I to pull small field guns. Dogs in harness sometimes had guard dogs to protect them from stray dogs.[3] In 1839, a ban on draught dogs in London and a later ban on all draught dogs and a tax on other working dogs caused the deaths of over 150,000 dogs, who were replaced in their work by children and adults.[4]

*Service or assistance dogs* help people with various disabilities in every day tasks. Some examples include mobility assistance dogs for the physically handicapped, guide dogs for the visually impaired, and hearing dogs for the hearing impaired.
Therapy dogs visit people who are incapacitated or prevented in some way from having freedom of movement; these dogs provide cheer and entertainment for the elderly in retirement facilities, the ill and injured in hospitals, and so on. The very act of training dogs can also act as a therapy for human handlers, as in a prisoner rehabilitation project.
*Rescue dogs *assist people who are in difficult situations, such as in the water after a boat disaster.
*Search dogs* locate people who are missing; lost in the wilderness, escaped from nursing homes, covered in snow avalanches, buried under collapsed buildings, etc.
*Herding dogs* are still invaluable to sheep and cattle handlers (stockmen) around the world for mustering; different breeds are used for the different jobs involved in stock work and for guarding the flocks and herds. Modern herding dogs help to control cattle and wild geese in parks or goats used for weed control. A well trained dog can adapt to control any sort of domestic and many wild animals.
*Sled dogs*, although today primarily used in sporting events, still can assist in transporting people and supplies in rugged, snowy terrain.
*Performing dog*s such as Circus dogs and dog actors are trained to perform acts that are not intrinsically useful, but instead provide entertainment to their audience or enable human artistic performances.
*Hunting dogs* assist hunters in finding, tracking, and retrieving game, or in routing vermin. Less frequently a dog, or rather or a pack of them, actually fights a predator, such as a bear or feral pig.
*Guard dogs* and watch dogs help to protect private or public property, either in living or used for patrols, as in the military and with security firms.
*Tracking dogs* help find lost people and animals or track down possible criminals.
*Cadaver dog or Human Remains Detection Dogs* use their scenting ability to discover bodies or human remains at the scenes of disasters, crimes, accidents, or suicides.
*Detection dogs* of a wide variety help to detect termites and bedbugs in homes, illegal substances in luggage, bombs, chemicals, and many other substances.
*War Dogs or K9 Corps* are used by armed forces in many of the same roles as civilian working dogs, but in a military context. In addition, specialized military tasks such as mine detection or wire laying have been assigned to dogs. Military Working Dog is the more formal, current term for dogs trained for use in military tasks.
*Police dogs*, also sometimes called K9 Units, are usually trained to track or immobilize possible criminals while assisting officers in making arrests or investigating the scene of a crime. Some are even specially trained for anti-terrorist units, as in Austria.
Dogs are sometimes used in programs to assist children in learning how to read. The Reading With Rover program in Washington pairs trained dogs with children who read aloud to the dog. This process builds confidence and reduces stress.[5]"_


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Sunflowers said:


> We did not build dogs.
> 
> And we selected for traits first and foremost for work, not for companionship.


If you really believe that, I strongly suggest you go watch the documentary called dogs decoded. There is also another one by National Geo called "and Man Created Dog"


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## Courtney (Feb 12, 2010)

I have idea what direction this thread is taken but just read the last few pages and found this news piece on NPR radio last week fascinating.

Here's the link to the story.

Old Dogs, New Data: Canines May Have Been Domesticated In Europe : NPR

...also, my boy will most likely always be 74-76 pounds which is perfect for his frame. I have seen GSD that way a lot more and it also fits their frame. Have also seen a lot of overweight GSD as well.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Never...

I prefer my GSDs within the standards, so they're not near 100lbs.

Duke is my largest at 85lbs.... before he was retired due to health issues, he was at a working weight of 78-80lbs.

My others are 74lbs and 58lbs....


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Courtney said:


> I have idea what direction this thread is taken but just read the last few pages and found this news piece on NPR radio last week fascinating.
> 
> Here's the link to the story.
> 
> ...


Go watch the National Geo video I mentioned. Its has even more info that the NPR story.


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## JackandMattie (Feb 4, 2013)

I would never let my Jack (within breed standard) get to 100 lbs.

My measure of success will be whether I care for him well enough that he gives me at least 12-14 more years of healthy, active companionship


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## ken k (Apr 3, 2006)

Max grew slowly, he reached '95lbs and at almost 3 years old, then came EPI, I have to monitor him closely, he`ll vary from 98 to 101, depending on the batch of enzymes, you can easily feel the last 2 ribs on either side, so hes not over weight


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

shepherdmom said:


> They were bread to herd sheep. Not many sheep herding jobs around today.
> 
> "As Germany became increasingly industrialized and the pastoral era declined, von Stephanitz realized the breed might also decline. With the co-operation of police and working dog clubs a set of specific tests was developed in tracking, formal obedience, and protection work." Even the original developer of the GSD realized that and changed directions.
> 
> I realize that traditionalists think that Schutzhund is the end all be all of the Sheperd, but if he is going to survive in today's society he is going to have to change again. Because just as the pastoral era declined so did the industrialized era. We are now in a post industrialzed era or the new electronic era or whatever you want to call it. We live too close together in too small a space for the GSD to have the kind of drive and energy they once had. We built dogs to be the perfect companion to humans. To remain that way they have to change along with us.


That's some grade A BS right there. I wonder how my and my drivey little bitches get along great living in the city???? Maybe because I own dogs I like? I guess if you have an active dog, but you're totally incapable of giving a dog what it needs you might have a problem.

And just how in the **** does someone arrive at the conclusion that I want this breed, but this breed can no longer be bred to be that kind of dog so I'm just going to change it??? Well what are you left with because it certainly isn't a GSD?


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> I just don't agree with the creator anymore than I agree with you.
> 
> ... Frankly I think this breed would be a lot better if they would breed out some of the drive. There are just to many drivey dogs getting into pet homes where people can't handle them and they wind up in rescue. There are just not enough experienced shepherd owners who are going to do stuff like run them 3 miles a day to take them all in.





Saphire said:


> Breed out the drive to accommodate those pet owners who cannot handle it?
> 
> WOW is all I can say. Its that kind of interest that is destroying this amazing breed.


Exactly. If people want a Golden in a GSD suit, they don't really want a GSD. Dumbing down a breed so that it can fit into most pet owners' lifestyle is bass-ackwards--pet owners should be looking for a breed that suits them. Changing the whole nature of a breed just to suit the average pet owner is what ruins working breeds.



shepherdmom said:


> These small drivey shepherds are something I've only seen in the last 10 years or so.


Then you haven't been looking. "Small" (ie, standard size) drivey GSDs are actually how the breed was created and how it was meant to be. This is why the breed is useful for all kinds of work that requires drive--police work, SAR, bomb sniffers, guide and service. To take away the drive would ruin the breed's working ability.



> I think some people have lost their minds if they think that the smaller high drive dogs of today are what a German Shepherd is or should be.


"Smaller" (ie standard size) high drive dogs are what the GSD was created from in the early 1900's, and what the breed creator wanted them to be. If you don't believe me or anyone else here, read Stephanitz's book. 



shepherdmom said:


> Screw the standard! If we are going to breed dogs at all we should be breeding the long lived, healthy, best tempered dogs. But as long as there is a "standard" to follow people will breed for looks, size and type rather than for healthy and happy.


Where in the world did you get the idea that following the breed standard means that dogs won't be healthy and happy? If there wasn't a standard, there wouldn't be a GSD.



shepherdmom said:


> I realize that traditionalists think that Schutzhund is the end all be all of the Sheperd, but if he is going to survive in today's society he is going to have to change again.


No, the breed does not have to change. What needs to happen is that people need to understand and respect the GSD for what it is, and not try to force the breed into something it was never intended to be. People who want couch potatoes should choose a couch potato breed. The GSD was never meant to be a dog for every pet owner, and pet owners need to accept that.



shepherdmom said:


> Go watch the National Geo video I mentioned. Its has even more info that the NPR story.


You think a TV show carries more authority than a book written by the guy who created the GSD? TV shows are meant to entertain people, and if you base your knowledge of anything from what you see on TV, well, I guess that would explain your views.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

High Five to freestep


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## LoveEcho (Mar 4, 2011)

Not to mention the irony of someone saying "GSD's should be bred for looks only and not the correct temperament" saying that breeders breeding according to the standard are breeding for looks and foregoing health and happiness cracks me up. Breeding oversize couch potato dogs with no drive IS breeding for looks only.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

crackem said:


> That's some grade A BS right there. I wonder how my and my drivey little bitches get along great living in the city???? Maybe because I own dogs I like? I guess if you have an active dog, but you're totally incapable of giving a dog what it needs you might have a problem.
> 
> And just how in the **** does someone arrive at the conclusion that I want this breed, but this breed can no longer be bred to be that kind of dog so I'm just going to change it??? Well what are you left with because it certainly isn't a GSD?


Whatever... Fight it all you want. The breed is changing it is going to have to, to survive. Look at all the breed restrictions against the GSD. There is a reason for it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> Look at all the breed restrictions against the GSD. There is a reason for it.


The reason is because byb's are producing unstable dogs! 

People that have no right breeding *are* breeding!

They are breeding shy, aggressive, fear biters with weak nerves!


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

shepherdmom said:


> Whatever... Fight it all you want. The breed is changing it is going to have to, to survive. Look at all the breed restrictions against the GSD. There is a reason for it.


uh huh? Sure thing ChaChi.

There sure is a reason, know nothing hacks try and breed dogs they know nothing about. it has very little to do with working dogs or dogs bred to standard. It's funny how people like me are not part of the problem, but people like you are part of the problem they clamor against. It's kind of sad.


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## Jack's Dad (Jun 7, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> Whatever... Fight it all you want. The breed is changing it is going to have to, to survive. Look at all the breed restrictions against the GSD. There is a reason for it.


 Yeah. The reason for it is crappy breeders on all ends of the spectrum (not just BYBs) not breeding for health temperament and nerves as cited in the breed standard. The othe reason is crappy owners who should not have the breed.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2012)

LOL! The reason the breed *is* surviving is because there still are many *good* breeders out there that are continuing to breed to the original standard is both size and temprament. The standard is there for a reason and should be adhered to, sure there are always "niches" where people want something special and there will be those who will cater to that but they really are failing at upholding what a true GSD is.

All dogs should be loved but that doesn't mean all should be bred.

To the OP - Delgado will never be 100 lbs, he was 67 lbs at 17 months and he'd be plain fat just to hit 80


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Freestep said:


> What needs to happen is that people need to understand and respect the GSD for what it is, and not try to force the breed into something it was never intended to be. People who want couch potatoes should choose a couch potato breed. The GSD was never meant to be a dog for every pet owner, and pet owners need to accept that.
> 
> Nope not going to happen. The GSD may not be for every owner but I want a GSD I don't want a Golden as do a lot of pet people and you need to accept the fact that not all breeders feel like you do and there will always be plenty of breeders out there that are going to breed for what the pet owner wants. The breed is changing whether you like it or not.
> 
> You think a TV show carries more authority than a book written by the guy who created the GSD? TV shows are meant to entertain people, and if you base your knowledge of anything from what you see on TV, well, I guess that would explain your views.


A documentary by National Geographic is a lot more credible source than Wikipedia which was what was being quoted at me and what I responded too but whatever. If you want to pretend superiority go right ahead. If it makes you feel smart because you read a book by some old dead guy who doesn't have to deal with apartment living, traffic, and the reality of life in the 21'st century you do that. 

I'll always be able to find plenty of Big GSD's. Those of you who continue to cry and complain about it remind me of those that fought so hard against computers or cell phones etc.. fight it all you want. That ship has sailed a long long time ago. There is no turning back now.


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## newtexas (Oct 22, 2013)

A golden or lab will never look at you or be the companion a GSD is, even a low drive GSD. My elderly father will never own any other breed. He has owned high drive dogs but realizes that he does not have the energy for them now. After owning GSDs you would never be happy with a golden or lab.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> The reason is because byb's are producing unstable dogs!
> 
> People that have no right breeding *are* breeding!
> 
> They are breeding shy, aggressive, fear biters with weak nerves!


Keep thinking that.... Its not just BYB dogs that are showing up in rescue with issues. I've got Tasha out of rescue. (I've got her papers and her pedigree from a well known and respectable breeder) and I know of several others from well known breeders that we have placed because the breeder doesn't want them back.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

newtexas said:


> A golden or lab will never look at you or be the companion a GSD is, even a low drive GSD. My elderly father will never own any other breed. He has owned high drive dogs but realizes that he does not have the energy for them now. After owning GSDs you would never be happy with a golden or lab.


I am sorry but a GSD should not be bred to accommodate your elderly fathers inability to handle a normal well bred GSD. There are however dogs in need of homes (GSD'S) that might be a good fit without encouraging poor breeding of such dogs.

I mean no disrespect to him at all.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

crackem said:


> uh huh? Sure thing ChaChi.
> 
> There sure is a reason, know nothing hacks try and breed dogs they know nothing about. it has very little to do with working dogs or dogs bred to standard. It's funny how people like me are not part of the problem, but people like you are part of the problem they clamor against. It's kind of sad.



Whats sad is that you bury your head in the sand and fail to accept reality. Big GSD's are here to stay.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Whats sad is that you bury your head in the sand and fail to accept reality. Big GSD's are here to stay.


I guess hairless (furless ..bald?)Siberian Huskies for those who don't like shedding is a good idea?

Your theory is seriously flawed and a danger to all breeds if you seriously believe it.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> Keep thinking that.... Its not just BYB dogs that are showing up in rescue with issues. I've got Tasha out of rescue. (I've got her papers and her pedigree from a well known and respectable breeder) and I know of several others from well known breeders that we have placed because the breeder doesn't want them back.


You're right, it's not just byb's producing bad dogs but they are the majority of the problem. There are far more byb's out there than there are reputable breeders.


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Saphire said:


> I guess hairless Siberian Huskies for those who don't like shedding is a good idea?
> 
> Your theory is seriously flawed and a danger to all breeds if you seriously believe it.


Apparently you missed the news we already labrodoodles and many other designer breeds. I don't want a designer breed. I want the GSD. I just don't want a drivey little nerve bag. I want a big solid stable GSD. Which my Buddy is.


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Keep thinking that.... Its not just BYB dogs that are showing up in rescue with issues. I've got Tasha out of rescue. (I've got her papers and her pedigree from a well known and respectable breeder) and I know of several others from well known breeders that we have placed because the breeder doesn't want them back.


If a breeder is aware one of their dogs is in rescue and needs help and refuses to take that pup back........they are NOT a reputable breeder IMO. 

A dog with papers does not mean it came from a reputable breeder.


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

shepherdmom said:


> Whats sad is that you bury your head in the sand and fail to accept reality. Big GSD's are here to stay.


Sorry you think that's sad... What I think is truly pathetic and sad are people like you who openly (embarrassingly to me) admit you can. Not. Handle. The. Breed..... So you and others support DUMBING it down to some "special" version..... That's pathetic.... And people who support and admit they can't handle it, cry and create some Frankenstein version so they can cope with it..... They should truly be embarrassed.... You can't handle a working breed, so you are going to breed only the incorrect ones to feel better about yourselves and make sure you get what YOU want.... Who cares about the increase in hip dysplasia, who cares about fear biting, who cares about dm.... As long as it's calm and gigantic, it's the pet owners feelings that matter..... Again I say, pathetic and embarrassing .....


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## Sunflowers (Feb 17, 2012)

There really is no arguing with someone who calls von Stephanitz "some old dead guy who doesn't have to deal with apartment living, traffic, and the reality of life in the 21st century."
I say we leave it, LOL


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

Saphire said:


> I guess hairless (furless ..bald?)Siberian Huskies for those who don't like shedding is a good idea?
> 
> Your theory is seriously flawed and a danger to all breeds if you seriously believe it.


don't give her too much credit. i doubt this person is important enough to be a danger to anyone but herself.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

Saphire said:


> *If a breeder is aware one of their dogs is in rescue and needs help and refuses to take that pup back........they are NOT a reputable breeder IMO. *
> 
> *A dog with papers does not mean it came from a reputable breeder*.


I 100000% agree!


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

LaRen616 said:


> You're right, it's not just byb's producing bad dogs but they are the majority of the problem. There are far more byb's out there than there are reputable breeders.



and once again we have circled back around to the never ending what is a BYB argument. 

Is RoyalAir a BYB? What about White Shepherds?


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## Saphire (Apr 1, 2005)

shepherdmom said:


> Big GSD's are here to stay.


And so is herpes....is that a good thing?


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## shepherdmom (Dec 24, 2011)

Saphire said:


> If a breeder is aware one of their dogs is in rescue and needs help and refuses to take that pup back........they are NOT a reputable breeder IMO.
> 
> A dog with papers does not mean it came from a reputable breeder.


Shall I post Tasha's pedigree again? Actually you can find it in past threads. Big name well respected kennel in California.


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## crackem (Mar 29, 2006)

We get it, you can't handle a dog bred to standard. That's fine. There's no shame in admitting you are incapable of doing something.

To suggest a bred to standard dog can't live in the 21st century is, well, asinine  Don't project your inadequacies onto an innocent dog. 

you have a dog, go enjoy him. why try and be an expert on something you obviously know very little about?


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## DaniFani (Jan 24, 2013)

Saphire said:


> And so is herpes....is that a good thing?


Haha, that made me snort- laugh!


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

shepherdmom said:


> and once again we have circled back around to the never ending what is a BYB argument.
> 
> Is RoyalAir a BYB? What about White Shepherds?


Yes, they are. Royal Air plans on having 11 litters within the next 18 months, they are breeding HUGE GSDs out of standard and they are not titled, they are not shown. It's first come first serve.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

shepherdmom said:


> If it makes you feel smart because you read a book by some old dead guy who doesn't have to deal with apartment living, traffic, and the reality of life in the 21'st century you do that.


Um... that "old dead guy" created the breed that YOU profess to love (yet hate if bred to standard). It doesn't make a person "smart" to read a book, but reading relevant material contributes to education. If you want to be educated on the history of the GSD, Stephanitz's book is something you might want to look into, just for starters. Perhaps if you understand what the GSD was bred FOR, you might understand why the standard is important.



> I'll always be able to find plenty of Big GSD's. Those of you who continue to cry and complain about it remind me of those that fought so hard against computers or cell phones etc.. fight it all you want. That ship has sailed a long long time ago. There is no turning back now.


There have always been, and will always be, poor breeders. I can't fathom how you equate breeding oversize, lazy, outside-standard GSDs with the advent of computers and technology, but whatever.

Please pick up a book, and read it. It's easy to educate yourself if you put in a little effort. If you don't want to learn, that's fine too, but don't profess your opinion to be truth.


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