# Giving Up!



## BWilson (Mar 16, 2010)

I decided to give up trying to rescue, adopt or buy any adult dog after today's episode. We thought we found the perfect dog, a 3 yr old neutered male, raised with 2 other GSDs and kids. We went to meet him and played with him for a while. He even ran toward a smaller dog that came by and didn't do anything except want to play. He was beautiful, nice coat, large blocky male head, tall and about 125 pounds (and not fat!). So we pay the rehoming fee and take him home. On the way we stop at Tractor Supply to get him his food that he is used to (4HEALTH). He was just a sweety in the store with the clerks and even a young boy who petted him and got "kisses". This just sealed the deal - so we thought. We get him home and with both dogs on leashes, we introduce him to our 5 yr old female- Tasha- who gets along with everybody and all dogs. They sniff and stuff, then play together in the yard for about 20 minutes. We bring them in and the male goes to the water, Tasha walks near him and BAM! He ripped into her like a wild wolf, tearing her lip. I jump in and grab him by the collar, and take him to the door to go outside. Tasha comes to the door on my other side and he goes for her again! Outside we go. Wife has Tasha in the house, checking her over and calming her. I have the male outside dominating him- standing over him and making him sit, then down. The whole time looking directly into his eyes. After a few minutes, I bring him back in, on a leash, and Tasha comes near me and BAM! He's going for her again! I intervene and block him. Tasha goes to her crate and won't come out. I call the guy we got him from, tell him what happened and he is shocked by this behavior "He's never done anything like that - ever". So I take the dog back (another 1 1/2 hour drive) and tell him I'm sorry I couldn't make it work.

So now- if we get a male- it will be a pup! I can't risk Tasha's health, self esteem and good dog manners be put at risk by another dog that "has never acted like that before".


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Ah, um, there's so many things wrong with the "intros" I can't even begin to touch on them all.
Was this a dog from a rescue?

1) don't do intros at the house or on your property!
2) should have brought your dog and walked the dogs alongside each other on neutral property first
3) do a two week shut down immediately when you get a new dog home (anything over 6-8smos)
4) "dominating" him? Standing over him, looking in his eyes? It's a wonder you still have your face! You knew the dog all of what, 2 hours at this point? Very dangerous...

I'll let someone else handle the rest.


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## Shaina (Apr 2, 2011)

msvette touched on a lot that I read immediately.. sounds like a trainwreck from the start. I know that ideally we all want a dog that can jump into our lives immediately, but that is NOT realistic and not fair to the shelter dog that now has a bad mark on their life..


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## BWilson (Mar 16, 2010)

msvette2u said:


> Ah, um, there's so many things wrong with the "intros" I can't even begin to touch on them all.
> Was this a dog from a rescue?
> 
> 1) don't do intros at the house or on your property!
> ...


1. MY dog isn't territorial or dog aggressive. We intro'd our other male this way and it was fine, never an aggression issue, ever. My son came and took the male back to Nebraska with him last November, and last month we went out there -with our dog- and they were like two puppies glad to see each other again.
2. OK- they walk along together, 1 1/2 hour away from home. They seem OK, then we put them in the truck and have a dogfight in the backseat on the highway? REALLY? That's better?
3. "2 week shutdown?" I'm assuming you mean no contact with the new dog as far as contact with the older dog? Contact with us? Yeah- not gonna happen.
4. Yup! Actually about 3 hours, but he showed no signs of domination toward humans. And yes, taking his space and making it mine as well as eye contact asserts my "alpha" place over him. I'm not going to try to pin down a 125 lb. dog like a real alpha dog would. This technique worked for us 25 years ago with MWDs, why wouldn't it work now?

This male showed no aggressive posturing, no growl, nothing! It was simply an attack on her when she walked by him while he was drinking water. The other attacks came as she came near me while I was holding him on a leash. I think he might have some territorial issues though.


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## BWilson (Mar 16, 2010)

BTW- he was from a private owner who has 3 GSDs, a 5 month old baby and another baby on the way. They decided to rehome the youngest GSD because he has never shown any aggression or possessiveness (except for his bed they said.) and they're gonna have 2 babies in diapers, etc. They were a very young couple but the dog was in great shape- well cared for and very pleasant to be with- until he got into it with our dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Going from one person's home directly into another is extremely confusing to a dog.
Very _few_ dogs over the age of 6 mos. are going to transition smoothly into a new home the very day they left their old one.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

Sorry, but I have to agree with everyone. I've brought many dogs into my home as adults and we did have to follow a very strict schedule for a few weeks, and keep a close eye even after months. 

Recently, I brought in a 2 year old male (Duke). He went through the same treatment. We did no contact other then walks away from home for a week or so.... then introduced slowly into the front yard, and so on. Very slow process. We had eagle eyes on them at all times during their time together. He was fed last, he was taken out last, she got attention first and etc. This way she didn't feel threatened and he understood that it wasn't his place to come in with a fight. We were extremely lucky that he was very submissive and so was my female. Which is why we brought him home. He was a good match for my home. This made things a lot easier and smoother.... but, most definitely not without a few moody moments from both.

I really think, even with a puppy, you should think about following a few different ways of introducing..... Honestly, I could tell you the outcome of this even if you didn't mention it. It was all leading to a disaster. Although dogs in the past have been fine with this doesn't mean they all will. I treat all new dogs here the same, regardless of their past or temperament. 

I wish you luck on whatever you choose, whether is be a puppy or another rescue.


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## Falkosmom (Jul 27, 2011)

Not every dog is the same. GSDs are highly bonded dogs, they do not transition easily. They are bred to be loyal to their family, you are a stranger and he wants to go home.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Not to mention, many times dogs like this, out of sheer "desperation" to have a semblance of normalcy, attach themselves quickly to someone.
This may seem like a good thing but it is not.
We've brought fosters in who do this, and we try to remain neutral and not "love on" the dog too much, friendly but not overly affectionate - yet. 
This is a honeymoon behavior and it can throw the balance off badly should it continue.
I'm guessing that the dog saw you as a kind of lifeline, and therefore figured nobody else should get close to you. I don't know how else to describe it but it happens in rescue/foster all the time. The dog's world has turned upside down and they just need to cling to something, which is usually _someone._

He sounded awesome, and it sounds like he may have worked out, given some time and space.

The "two week shut down" is a basic "reboot" to their system, and I highly recommend it to anyone adopting a dog that is over 6-8mos. of age.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Not to mention, many times dogs like this, out of sheer "desperation" to have a semblance of normalcy, attach themselves quickly to someone.
> This may seem like a good thing but it is not.
> We've brought fosters in who do this, and we try to remain neutral and not "love on" the dog too much, friendly but not overly affectionate - yet.
> This is a honeymoon behavior and it can throw the balance off badly should it continue.
> ...


That's exactly how we did it with Duke. And our transition was actually very smooth! We used to do that when we brought the rescued Pits in, and that worked well with them too. I would highly recommend that too.


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## Verivus (Nov 7, 2010)

BWilson said:


> And yes, taking his space and making it mine as well as eye contact asserts my "alpha" place over him. *I'm not going to try to pin down a 125 lb. dog like a real alpha dog would*. This technique worked for us 25 years ago with MWDs, why wouldn't it work now?


Sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about and I agree with what's already been said by others. A "real alpha dog" does not pin down other dogs to assert dominance. It's an old, out-dated, already disproved idea based on observation of captive wolves. In captive wolves the submissive behavior is not initiated by the "alpha", it is initiated by the wolf that feels threatened. In other words the "alpha" does NOT pin the other wolf. Wolves in the wild have been observed to NOT display this submissive behavior.


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## Elaine (Sep 10, 2006)

It sounds like you rushed the intro of the dogs. Even though they got along initially, you still have to watch them like a hawk for at least several days as they get to know each other. Not too surprising that this happened as the new dog was stressed with the new place and tried to resource guard the water dish. It's a shame, but not surprising.

As for doing intros on your property: not that big a deal. It helps if you do it elsewhere, but it's not critical so long as you watch them closely.

As for this two week shutdown: this has to be the most absurd thing I have ever heard of and do not support in any way shape or form.

As for you standing over the new dog dominating him: not smart. You could have gotten seriously bitten. 

Also the alpha roll is something that was an extremely bad training fad a long time ago and has fortunately pretty much died.

No reason not to try another adult dog if that's what you want. Just this time remember that the dogs do not know each other and can not be trusted together for at least a couple of weeks.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

BWilson said:


> 1. MY dog isn't territorial or dog aggressive. We intro'd our other male this way and it was fine, never an aggression issue, ever. My son came and took the male back to Nebraska with him last November, and last month we went out there -with our dog- and they were like two puppies glad to see each other again.
> 2. OK- they walk along together, 1 1/2 hour away from home. They seem OK, then we put them in the truck and have a dogfight in the backseat on the highway? REALLY? That's better?
> 3. "2 week shutdown?" I'm assuming you mean no contact with the new dog as far as contact with the older dog? Contact with us? Yeah- not gonna happen.
> 4. Yup! Actually about 3 hours, but he showed no signs of domination toward humans. And yes, taking his space and making it mine as well as eye contact asserts my "alpha" place over him. I'm not going to try to pin down a 125 lb. dog like a real alpha dog would. This technique worked for us 25 years ago with MWDs, why wouldn't it work now?
> ...


 
Sounds like you really knew whar you were doing! Yep sure does. Don't need to lsten to anyone who has a lot of experience in introducing strang new dogs to each other.


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