# She almost pulled us both into traffic today.



## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

I am still upset by this mornings events.

I always keep an excellent awareness of my surroundings while walking Stella because there are cars, kids, ducks and cats all to be encountered on our morning bathroom walk.

I hold the leash as I was taught, with the handle in my hand and my fingers clasping over the loop. I have small hands so I can only hold 1 loop securely not 2.

I keep a goody bag of treats with me to put Stella in a look at me or heeling walk while getting past distractions. I keep her on a fur saver choker to give a correction as needed.

Today we were rounding the corner to go back home and I let my guard down for just a bit because I was more concerned to cross the street and I was putting her in a look at me slow down so she would not walk across the street.

The leash was loose. Suddenly a duck flew low over our head towards the main street. Before I even knew what was happening, she pulled me totally around like I was a rag doll. Luckily I still somehow managed to keep the leash in my hand as she was bolting toward the main street where all the cars are very close. We had a small embankment between us. She is pulling me and I am barely able to recover as I said she turned me around. I have to tell you I peed just a little bit in my pants due to the force of this whole event.

I somehow managed not to let go of the leash and got her back on track. I put her in a sit. Scolded her I was so upset. Got home. Put her in a sit again. Scolded her again. She was so amazed to hear the anger in my voice she did not move.

I then went to my room and tears came down my face. I could not believe I almost lost control of my dog and she could of been killed.

Sorry for the rant. I had to let this go. One of the Shutzhund people I am working with is trying to convince me of the benefit of an ecollar for certain situations. After today..I think I may just get one. My dog is strong and I am a small woman and I would never forgive myself if she was killed by a car by getting away from me.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

I have read multiple places that a fur saver is _*not*_ a correction collar. Why not use a prong collar if you need more control? Or a head halter.


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Stella's Mom said:


> I somehow managed not to let go of the leash and got her back on track. I put her in a sit. Scolded her I was so upset. Got home. Put her in a sit again. Scolded her again. She was so amazed to hear the anger in my voice she did not move.
> 
> I then went to my room and tears came down my face. I could not believe I almost lost control of my dog and she could of been killed.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. I had to let this go. One of the Shutzhund people I am working with is trying to convince me of the benefit of an ecollar for certain situations. After today..I think I may just get one. My dog is strong and I am a small woman and I would never forgive myself if she was killed by a car by getting away from me.


How scary! I'm glad you are both okay. I do have to say though that the second scolding was definitely lost on her and she was likely confused as to why she was being scolded since so much time had passed since the incident.

This is why my dogs walk with a prong. Both can walk without it but Raven especially is much stronger than me and it's extra assurance that if for some reason she tries to go somewhere without me, I'll have control. I'm not sure an e-collar would have helped you in that situation since you were caught so off guard, you'd be struggling to push the button while struggling to catch your balance.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't have advice other than...don't scold her after she's obeyed a command...


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

gsdraven said:


> How scary! I'm glad you are both okay. I do have to say though that the second scolding was definitely lost on her and she was likely confused as to why she was being scolded since so much time had passed since the incident.
> 
> This is why my dogs walk with a prong. Both can walk without it but Raven especially is much stronger than me and it's extra assurance that if for some reason she tries to go somewhere without me, I'll have control. I'm not sure an e-collar would have helped you in that situation since you were caught so off guard, you'd be struggling to push the button while struggling to catch your balance.


Yeah, I thought about that too. Like how in the heck could I handle the remote when all I can do is stay on my feet, hold on to the leash and save her from running headlong into traffic.

I know the second scolding was bad, and scolding when she obeyed the sit command. I was just so shaken up. I did not react well.

Would the prong have stopped her more effectively?


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> I don't have advice other than...don't scold her after she's obeyed a command...


Yeah...my mistake...heat of the moment and visibly shaken up.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Stella's Mom said:


> Would the prong have stopped her more effectively?


Absolutely. (Well, for _most_ dogs anyway.) A prong collar for my dog at least yields an _immediate_ difference in behavior.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

wildo said:


> I have read multiple places that a fur saver is _*not*_ a correction collar. Why not use a prong collar if you need more control? Or a head halter.


Yes, I am seeing that a prong may be a better way to go. I cannot have this happen again.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

wildo said:


> Absolutely. (Well, for _most_ dogs anyway.) A prong collar for my dog at least yields an _immediate_ difference in behavior.


Cruising the Elite k9 website for one now.


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## Lilie (Feb 3, 2010)

Whew! I'm glad that in the end everyone is safe at home. Remember sometimes events like this are very good as it reminds us of what could happen in the blink of an eye. It's a good lesson learned. 

For me, I'm a big believer in the halti. It has never let me down. Normally the correction the halti gives itself is enough to bring Hondo back to my world. Therefore I'm not pressured into being on red alert 24/7. Which, as in your situation, we all need to be when out with multiple distractions. 

I only use the fur saver when I'm giving baths. My dogs are creepers and a small correction reminds them to be still.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Look into Canny Collar. We had one for our last dog and it was wonderful


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Look into Canny Collar. We had one for our last dog and it was wonderful


i was just checking out the 
Herm Sprenger Black plated, Stainless Steel pinch collar
3.25 mm 
Item: C128 Price: $39.95 

I will google the Canny collar


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## gsdraven (Jul 8, 2009)

Stella's Mom said:


> Would the prong have stopped her more effectively?


Most likely. Especially if she has been taught what the correction on a prong means. 

For my dogs, a correction when walking means come right back to me. Raven immediately gets in heel position. So, in your scenario, they saw the duck, decided to chase, got to the end of the leash and got an auto correction even though I had no balance and then came right back to me. Much safer scenario. 

Also, like Willy says, just the act of wearing the prong means they likely wouldn't have tried to chase in the first place. Talk with your trainer and see if they think it's a good option for you. Your trainer should help your fit it and show you how to properly use it.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Michelle- if you've never used one, you might wanna have a read here: Leerburg | How to fit a Prong Collar

I'm sure your SchH club members can also help you fit it properly.


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## Wolfiesmom (Apr 10, 2010)

This is why I use a prong collar. I am small, Wolfie is big and a whole lot stronger than I am. Even though he has never bolted on me when we are on a walk, I feel better safe than sorry. There is a lot of traffic where I walk as well.


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## LaRen616 (Mar 4, 2010)

wildo said:


> Absolutely. (Well, for _most_ dogs anyway.) A prong collar for my dog at least yields an _immediate_ difference in behavior.


Yup. Sinister is an angel when the prong is on. 

I can only walk the dogs with my left arm so I cant handle alot of pulling, so walking with a prong is a MUST for me.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Look into Canny Collar. We had one for our last dog and it was wonderful


Just did some checking. The halti and the canny look very similar. The halti looks a bit sturdier.

It seems like these collars would have prevented her from being able to do a 180 turn like she did today to get the upper hand.

That indeed would be great. I will go to petsmart today and see what they have for these types of collars.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Stella's Mom said:


> I will go to petsmart today and see what they have for these types of collars.


If you are going to PetSmart, you will be able to try on a prong, halti, and Gentle Leader. For the head halters- here's an interesting read: Head Halters: Gentle Leader vs. Halti | The Pawsitive Dog Blog

Note- I don't know about a Halti, but a GL is _not_ a correction collar. It doesn't need to be. It turns the dog's head back to you when the dog tries to pull. This is the basic premise of a head halter, to my knowledge. Trying to issue corrections with a GL could really hurt a dog's muzzle. Just an FYI if you didn't know that...


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

Stella's Mom said:


> i was just checking out the
> Herm Sprenger Black plated, Stainless Steel pinch collar
> 3.25 mm
> Item: C128 Price: $39.95
> ...


Check: dog.com 

I just ordered one, the same thing and it was cheaper. Right now they are offering free shipping on orders over $49, so you can grab some extra treats!!!


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## kiya (May 3, 2010)

I use a prong and have for about 20 years. My male can go on a regular collar but the 2 girls definately a prong, thier prey drive is just too strong. They just know when it's on don't lunge. When Lakota sees a deer she will hop up and most of the time just sit not lunge forward.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

GSKnight said:


> Check:  dog.com
> 
> I just ordered one, the same thing and it was cheaper. Right now they are offering free shipping on orders over $49, so you can grab some extra treats!!!


That works for me. I am going to get that, and get a halti/canny at petsmart.


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

wait.... mine wasn't the "black plated"... just the standard stainless...


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

After trying the halti for months and getting nowhere (but rubbed her lip raw on the side - could very well be I had it on wrong) I switched to the prong. When the leash is loose, if she were to bolt she would get an immediate "self-correction" which does not need to much strength from you. 

Mine is a completely different dog when I put that prong on her- she will still pull a little from time to time- but she is getting much better- there is no more "bolting" from her. In fact last night I walked her for a bit with just a choker and she did awesome!!

I am so glad you guys didn't get hurt.


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

GSKnight said:


> wait.... mine wasn't the "black plated"... just the standard stainless...


The black plating wears off anyway: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...sprenger-black-plated-k9-vehicle-inserts.html

LOL- don't you just love all the links...


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## Germanshepherdlova (Apr 16, 2011)

I know how awful it feels for your dog to drag you around like that, it has happened to me before because my dog tries to chase cars while I am walking him. I have an ecollar, and a prong as well. I usually use the prong though because when my dog is in a heightened state of mind the ecollar no longer phases him, not even on the #10 setting. Besides, you have to press the button on the remote to activate the shock and when you are caught off guard the way you described there really isn't time for that when the dog has taken off in a split second and you have already been lunged forward.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

wildo said:


> The black plating wears off anyway: http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...sprenger-black-plated-k9-vehicle-inserts.html
> 
> LOL- don't you just love all the links...


I have the black plated fur saver..so far so good. Plus it looks nice.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Elite k9 is out of stock on the black plated prong collar...just called. I guess I will order the stainless steel one from dog.com


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

Cool.... just order a bunch of treats & toys to get up to the free shipping amount. That's what I did.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

No you have to order a canny collar online. It's different than a Halti, Halti's turn their heads. This one makes it so they cannot forge ahead, but the motion is pulling their muzzle slightly downward instead of sideways.

It's superior, IMO, to the haltis which I have never had luck with. I could use a cat leash on our 95lb. GSD with no problem. I kept a back up leash/collar on him for safety "just in case" but never needed it. Even when he saw our cat he didn't bolt after it as he would have otherwise.

No-pull dogs collar No-pull harness dog collar


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## Rerun (Feb 27, 2006)

You need to get a prong collar stat.

Fursavers are absolutely USELESS for corrections in the manner that you needed. Quite frankly I don't see the point in them at all. I've used them on multiple dogs and they do nothing for corrections.


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## cassadee7 (Nov 26, 2009)

I agree with the prong, and I have a pretty soft/sensitive dog so I was resistant to using one for awhile. I didn't want to "hurt" her and they looked scary to me. But like you, I was afraid she could yank me and hurt me or her if she was distratced enough. She is young and the impulse control is not solid yet. So I went to Petsmart and got a cheapo prong because I wasn't sure if I would like it or use it much and didn't want to spend a lot of money. I am SO GLAD I did this. It works just fine, and while I don't use it all the time, I use it more often now that she is not in a harness for walks. (An easywalk harness is very useful, too, but the straps started to cut her under the armpits). In a prong she will NOT pull me. It is very useful and she actually seems happier knowing who is in control


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

cassadee7 said:


> I agree with the prong, and I have a pretty soft/sensitive dog so I was resistant to using one for awhile. I didn't want to "hurt" her and they looked scary to me. But like you, I was afraid she could yank me and hurt me or her if she was distratced enough. She is young and the impulse control is not solid yet. So I went to Petsmart and got a cheapo prong because I wasn't sure if I would like it or use it much and didn't want to spend a lot of money. I am SO GLAD I did this. It works just fine, and while I don't use it all the time, I use it more often now that she is not in a harness for walks. (An easywalk harness is very useful, too, but the straps started to cut her under the armpits). In a prong she will NOT pull me. It is very useful and she actually seems happier knowing who is in control


My dog is not a hard dog either, she just has that "i wanna chase that duck" drive. I called Elite K9 after looking at the other prongs and they suggested a very nice one to me. It should arrive by Saturday. 

At the end of the day, I want my dog to be safe and I want control of the lead. 
Here is the one I ended up ordering...a bit pricey, but he told me this is better for fit and less chance of jerking on the neck.

Herm Sprenger Black Stainless Steel Neck-tech-Elite K-9


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

Rerun said:


> You need to get a prong collar stat.
> 
> Fursavers are absolutely USELESS for corrections in the manner that you needed. Quite frankly I don't see the point in them at all. I've used them on multiple dogs and they do nothing for corrections.


Just ordered a top of the line prong from Elite K9...can't wait to get it. It will arrive by Saturday.

Herm Sprenger Black Stainless Steel Neck-tech-Elite K-9


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> No you have to order a canny collar online. It's different than a Halti, Halti's turn their heads. This one makes it so they cannot forge ahead, but the motion is pulling their muzzle slightly downward instead of sideways.
> 
> It's superior, IMO, to the haltis which I have never had luck with. I could use a cat leash on our 95lb. GSD with no problem. I kept a back up leash/collar on him for safety "just in case" but never needed it. Even when he saw our cat he didn't bolt after it as he would have otherwise.
> 
> No-pull dogs collar No-pull harness dog collar


I will also order the Canny too . Went to the website you suggested and I need to get a measuring tape to be sure of her size. I think she is a 7, but not a 100% certain.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Be sure to measure her neck correctly, there's instructions on the page. 
I'm betting with that canny you won't need a prong.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

msvette2u said:


> Be sure to measure her neck correctly, there's instructions on the page.
> I'm betting with that canny you won't need a prong.


Yes I saw the page, will get the measure tape and order one. My husband is against the prong, so maybe he can use that collar. I will try both collars and see which one I have better luck with.


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## Stella's Mom (Mar 8, 2011)

wildo said:


> Michelle- if you've never used one, you might wanna have a read here: Leerburg | How to fit a Prong Collar
> 
> I'm sure your SchH club members can also help you fit it properly.


The folks at my Shutzhund use the e collars and fur savers.

The manager from Elite K9 ~ Luke was very helpful on the telephone and explained how the different types of prong collars work and how to use them. 

I was clueless, glad I called. I ended up with the tech collar as it has a snap for easier time of putting the collar on and taking it off.
Herm Sprenger Black Stainless Steel Neck-tech-Elite K-9


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## wildo (Jul 27, 2006)

Stella's Mom said:


> Just ordered a top of the line prong from Elite K9...can't wait to get it. It will arrive by Saturday.
> 
> Herm Sprenger Black Stainless Steel Neck-tech-Elite K-9


I don't really understand how that collar works. Doesn't look like it has the martingale action- so is the dog constantly being corrected when in use? This collar doesn't appear to be a training collar to me... Then again, I've never seen it. The martingale action is nice because the dog is not being corrected when not pulling.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

I've seen someone use the canny collar and was not sure what it was. When she saw Dakota and I coming down the road she stopped and slide the nose portion on her dog. I asked her about it and she said the vet (my vet too) had suggested it and she bought it from him. She said the halti, gentle leader did not fit her dog and this one is great.

I too like the looks of this one more that a gentle leader/halti. It looks more sturdy with a buckle vs. thin plastic clips.

I do use a halti when I know we are going to be in tight areas around other dogs as I have more control over her as she can sometimes be reactive to certain dogs. With the halti I have control of her head and I can use it as a muzzle if I pull up on the leash. I don't know if collar would work for that or if it is simply used for pulling.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

Caledon said:


> I've seen someone use the canny collar and was not sure what it was. When she saw Dakota and I coming down the road she stopped and slide the nose portion on her dog. I asked her about it and she said the vet (my vet too) had suggested it and she bought it from him. She said the halti, gentle leader did not fit her dog and this one is great.
> 
> I too like the looks of this one more that a gentle leader/halti. It looks more sturdy with a buckle vs. thin plastic clips.
> 
> I do use a halti when I know we are going to be in tight areas around other dogs as I have more control over her as she can sometimes be reactive to certain dogs. With the halti I have control of her head and I can use it as a muzzle if I pull up on the leash. I don't know if collar would work for that or if it is simply used for pulling.


Yes you can tighten control on the leash. If your dog is reactive to it, they may toss their head some. But it works excellent for what you're describing. 
It doesn't twist the head to the side - and I've tried a halti and seen people using them, where the dog's forging ahead with it's head sideways, kind of defeats the purpose! 
But the canny doesn't allow that at all, yet appears "kinder" somehow at the same time. I literally used a 1/2" leather collar instead of our huge thick nylon one, to walk our dog with, and maintained control the whole time.


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## Caledon (Nov 10, 2008)

Well thats good to know.

This person swore by this collar. She has a huge Buramese mountain dog that weighs more than she does and she says that it stops his pulling.


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## Syaoransbear (Sep 25, 2008)

wildo said:


> Doesn't look like it has the martingale action- so is the dog constantly being corrected when in use?


It's no different than dead ringing your prong collar. Prong collars without the martingale feature do not correct when the dog is not pulling because the prongs are only snugly sitting on the skin, not pinching.

OP: I think you should try a very normal, basic prong collar in addition to the one you are getting. I have a neck tech with the martingale feature. It is very difficult to add and remove prongs(it requires me to use pliers), and I don't feel that it works as well as a normal prong. Plus without the martingale feature the correction is focused on the throat area instead of being evenly distributed all around the neck.

I think powerful, drivey dogs should wear something different than a flat collar. A dog is not a robot, they can always choose not to listen to you no matter how well trained they are. I'd rather be prepared for disobedience by always using a prong collar than standing over a dead dog that ran out into the street and saying, "I'm so surprised, he's never done that before!". I never understood why some people are so adamant about using the same collar on a 90 pound dog that could dislocate your shoulder and drag you across the ground that you'd use to control a 5 pound dog.


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It would be a cheaper way to see if a prong will work...but I'll still swear by a canny


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## sharkey19 (Sep 25, 2011)

I don't know if anyone recommended some sort of head halter? They offer a lot of control, especially if you are caught off guard. Once I was picking up poop so had the leash in one hand, and a rabbit ran across the street. Dax went after it. Without the head collar on I am not sure I would have been able to hold on. In my work at a vet hospital, I have seen dogs even with prongs pull pretty hard. I'm sure all dogs can get collar smart with any collar, but the head halters are really great for control.


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## codmaster (Aug 5, 2009)

Stella's Mom said:


> Yeah, I thought about that too. Like how in the heck could I handle the remote when all I can do is stay on my feet, hold on to the leash and save her from running headlong into traffic.
> 
> I know the second scolding was bad, and scolding when she obeyed the sit command. I was just so shaken up. I did not react well.
> 
> Would the prong have stopped her more effectively?


 
Prongs are better BUT are not magic!

But don't feel bad about being towed by your dog. Can happen to anybody (and does!)

The other night we are out walking with my 88lb male GSD when he decides he wants to go visit a neighbor - he has a prong on also. He just GOES and actually dragged me a few feet before I could stop him! And i am no doubt considerably larger than you are. They can be amazingly powereful animals when they have that determination to GO!


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## GSKnight (Oct 18, 2011)

codmaster said:


> Prongs are better BUT are not magic!
> 
> But don't feel bad about being towed by your dog. Can happen to anybody (and does!)
> 
> The other night we are out walking with my 88lb male GSD when he decides he wants to go visit a neighbor - he has a prong on also. He just GOES and actually dragged me a few feet before I could stop him! And i am no doubt considerably larger than you are. They can be amazingly powerful animals when they have that determination to GO!


I agree. I got a prong this week, based on the advice of a member here I met in person (thanks Lee). Before it arrived, Viktor decided he thought it was a good idea to lunge at passing cars. Now, I am 200 lbs and can control him, but a sudden powerful lunge can catch anyone off guard. I walked him last night for the first time on it. He started out amazingly well, just using the dead ring. Then... we got down by the golf course and he decided he was going to test it. After some surprising pulling, I switched it to the active ring. He complied. 

My point is... the dog may still be stubborn, but it is best to be prepared.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

Daisy until recently had to have a prongcollar. I had one time picked her up from the vets and she had the regular collar on. Got a bout 5ft from the car she saw something bolted sideways,I got body slammed into the car and she was loose heading to the 4 lane highway. It was icy that day and she just had surgery. She stopped and looked at me and I got her leash.She was probably 5 or 6 then. Lucky has never needed one.


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